DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS

Fifth Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LVIII No. 2 – 1:30 p.m., Thursday, November 16, 2006 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. VACANT Kirkfield Park 13 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, November 16, 2006 The House met at 1:30 p.m. real conflict of interest the legislation should be introduced and handled by another minister. PRAYER On June 12, 2006, the Minister of Aboriginal ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS and Northern Affairs spoke on Bill 32, of the last Speaker's Statement session, The Real Property Amendment Act. As the minister indicated at the time, the purpose of the bill Mr. Speaker: I have a statement for the House. is to facilitate the transfer of provincial lands to the I must inform the House that Stuart Murray, the federal government so that they can more easily be honourable Member for Kirkfield Park, has resigned transferred to First Nations communities. At his seat in the House effective September 7, 2006. I committee on June 12, 2006, the minister said, and I am therefore tabling his resignation and my letter to quote: "So as the Minister of Aboriginal and the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council advising of the Northern Affairs and also being a First Nations vacancy created in the House membership. person, I have always told groups that I have a vested interest in these lands, on OCN anyway, the First MATTER OF PRIVILEGE Nation I come from, be transferred to OCN's control Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I and authority as soon as possible." rise on a matter of privilege. I would like to congratulate the minister in being Matters of privilege must be raised at the first very forthright and aboveboard in making very clear possible opportunity and a prima facie case must be the potential conflict of interest he has in regard to established as to how it affects the privileges of us as him being the minister responsible for the bill. The members. minister is the sponsor of this bill, having introduced The matter I raise results from comments made the bill at first reading on April 11, and introducing by the honourable Minister of Aboriginal and the bill at second reading on May 31. The minister Northern Affairs (Mr. Lathlin), at a committee clearly recognizes the potential is there for his First meeting on the very last day of the session, June 12, Nation and, by extension perhaps himself, to benefit 2006. I first became aware of these comments while from the legislation. But, having recognized the the Legislature was in recess, reading the Hansard, potential for conflict, the minister should also have and so I raise this issue today at the earliest possible handed this bill to another minister of the Crown for opportunity. sponsorship to avoid any conflict of interest, real or apparent. I also note that the minister did not make The matter which I raise revolves around our clear either at first or second reading that he had this rights as MLAs as a collectivity, and I would refer potential conflict. you to page 95 of Marleau and Montpetit, House of Commons Procedure and Practice. To save time, I Mr. Speaker, whenever ministers sponsor bills will not read the citation as you can consult it in from which there is possibility of deriving a personal making your ruling. benefit, either real or apparent, the standards and The crux of the matter is the expectation that all dignity of this Chamber suffers. This in turn honourable members are expected to conduct undermines the dignity of all honourable members, themselves in such a matter as to not bring the and this, I believe, is a prima facie case of a breach integrity of this Chamber into disrepute. We all know of privilege. that it is fundamental principle in our parliamentary system that government not only operate but be seen Therefore, I move, seconded by the Member for to be operating such that no minister of the Crown Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), that the matter of privilege uses his or her position to advance his or her raised today by myself regarding the possibility of a personal interests, and that where a government conflict of interest regarding The Real Property brings forward legislation which affects the personal Amendment Act be referred to a standing committee interests of a minister, that to avoid any perceived or of the Legislature. 14 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 16, 2006 Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House government because of what? Because of his Leader): Mr. Speaker, the member is right that the background for sponsoring the bill that he not only privileges ought to be rarely raised. This has now has the right to sponsor, but is proud to sponsor and become a regular occurrence amongst the leader of is part of his duty to sponsor, and to suggest because the opposition. I remember two sessions ago, the of his background that he has no right in this matter of privilege was where the member was Chamber to sponsor on a bill on property rights is sitting in the Legislature, followed by a filibuster by absurd and wrong. the member opposite saying the Member for River This matter ought to go no further, and I suggest Heights did not have the opportunity to speak. Now the member should apologize not only to the the member rises on a question. The member who is Member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin), but to all a doctor, who stands up in this House on a regular members of this Chamber for raising a matter that is basis and talks about medical matters and talks about not only inaccurate, but offensive, offensive to benefits to doctors and talks about those matters, he myself and to other members of this Chamber. The has the gall, the audacity, to stand in this Chamber member who, I believe, trained as a medical doctor, and accuse a minister of the Crown, who happens to and who has on many occasions raised medical be a First Nation background, something he is very doctor renumeration issues and has not stood up, Mr. proud of and respects in this Chamber, and suggests Speaker, and discussed his conflict of interest on that by virtue of bringing forward a bill he is in medical numeration issues, I daresay has never been conflict of interest. I say shame on the leader and the called on that. In fact, he has used his background Member for River Heights. and his knowledge often in this Chamber to talk By the member's own definition, virtually half of about issues. To suggest that the Member for The us couldn't speak in this Legislature or sponsor bills. Pas– Agriculture, teachers, Mr. Speaker, there are Mr. Speaker: Order. provisions in the legislative act dealing with conflict that say if you are a small percentage that a total When dealing with a matter of privilege, the individual who takes advantage of a particular member should be debating the prima facie case and pecuniary or non-pecuniary interest in a matter, you not get into debate of the issue. I haven't decided yet are not a subject of privilege, you are not a subject of if it will go forward or not.

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