Interview of Michelina Frascone and Russell Frascone

Interviewed on July 31,2002

Interviewed by Benjamin Filene and Ayesha Shariff for the Minnesota Historical Society for the Open House Project Exhibit

Russell Frascone - RF House Michelina Frascone - MF Benjamin Filene - BF Ayesha Shariff - AS Open Society MK: They bought it. I wasn't here yet. Project AS: This is Rose Cucchiarella? Society MF: Rose and Filimino Cucchiarella. My motherHistory is Filimena and he's Filimino. They were first cousins. They were the owner with my Uncle Tony.Historical My Uncle Tony's in the picture of the house, you know, the big house. He went to Italy in 1931 or 1932, so that's why we don't have too many pictures of him. HistoricalOral BF: The picture on the right is in Forest Lake?

MF: In Forest Lake, yes. The [Angelo]Minnesota DePonti's airport [Journey's End Airport]? I don't know if you ever heard of DePonti's airport? No? He owned part of the airport. The mother, she was a mend ofMinnesota my mother, so she'd always invite the kids and us over. This is Forest Lake, see? BF: Who's in the picture?

MF: This is Nellie and Joseph and Mitchi, another daughter I got, and that's Joseph. This is Nellie and Mitchi, Joseph and Victor. This is a relative. This is Victor [sounds like Gur-lig]. He's a relative too. My Aunt Rose used to baby sit for him in the other duplex, so then he would always be with s.

RF: His mother was a Frascone. MF: Yes.

BF: So, where is this taken?

MF: This is right in the yard.

RF: Beside the house.

BF: This, you said, was in the dining room?

MF: In the dining room, yes,close to the kitchen, in the comer ofthe dining room. It was a holiday, December, Christmas time. Exhibit BF: And that's Russell and Nellie?

MF: Yes, Russell, Nellie, Joseph and Mitchi. We never had the other two until we came up here. There's nine months apart from this one to Peter and Maria. House

BF: This is the living room? Open MF: This is the living room, yes. That's me, Russell, and Nellie. This must be Mitchi on the side. Society We'll be married sixty years next year. Project Society BF: Wow.

AS: Congratulations. HistoryHistorical

MF: Thank you. HistoricalOral BF: These, I think we've seen.

MF: Yes. Minnesota

BF: WasMinnesota there anything else over there? AS: I think we've seen all ofthese.

BF: This is great. Thank you for showing them.

MF: That's Joe [unclear].

AS: I know we've seen this one.

2 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: They had a chicken in the backyard. Did you have one with chickens? It was during the wartime and you couldn't have too much meat, so we used to have chickens in the backyard. When he was a little baby, we have a picture with a chicken. [chuckles]

BF: We haven't seen that one.

AS: No, we have seen that one.

MF: Have you seen something with the chicken?

AS: We copied that from the album.

MF: Yes, okay. That was during the war. Exhibit

AS: You had chickens at your wedding, right?

MF: Yes, chickens at our wedding. My mother baked in the earthenHouse oven in the neighborhood.

BF: Where was the oven? Open MF: The oven was ... Let me see now. Molly DePalma lived at theSociety first house, so then the [sounds like Fah-Iahge] live in the second house from the comer,Project so this was the house that had the earthen oven. Society RF: It was two doors down. History MF: My mother baked bread in there, too. She bakedHistorical the chickens in the earthen oven for the wedding. Yes, we didn't have a big wedding, but we had my friends. Some ofthe people came from the railroad. I worked at theHistorical railroadOral and about twenty or so came to the wedding and we had in the front room and the living room two long tables with salami, [sounds like cot-ah-cole], homemade bread and homemade wine. [laughter] All the people, they came from work, you know, and they got to have something. My papa had aMinnesota stroke at that time, so he couldn't come to the church, so he was home.

BF: That'sMinnesota why you had it at home?

MF: Well, we couldn't afford anymore that that, you know. Yes. Russell was the youngest often. Times were not that great. We had said we were going to get married. We had planned and my papa loved him and so [sigh] we did the best we could at this wedding. In fact, I don't know in have that wedding picture.

BF: What were you going to say about the oven, Russell? It was two doors down?

3 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: The earthen oven where they used to bake the homemade bread, big loaves ... We used to pay, years ago, that was a long time ago, twenty-five cents a loaf for a big loaf like that.

MF: We didn't have a photographer, so we have some snapshots. That's our wedding picture.

BF: Oh, beautiful.

MF: Yes. That's just a snapshot. You know, we didn't have an album or anything like that. We have some with my father sitting with us also.

AS: That, I think we've seen with you dressed as a bride standing behind your father.

MF: Yes. Exhibit

BF: Where is this taken?

MF: Como Park. House

BF: Is that after the ceremony? Open MF: Yes, then we went there. I had my best girlfriend and my brother-in-law,Society Russell's brother, our attendants. Project BF: We read another interview with you, Societywith Margot Galt. Do you remember her? MF: Dh, yes, yes. HistoryHistorical BF: We have a transcript of that. HistoricalOral MF: Ohhh!

BF: It was funny to read [unclear]Minnesota of you a long time ago. MF: She was Italian ... yes, Margot. Minnesota BF: In that interview, I think you talked about how you bought the chickens as ... Will you tell us that story?

MF: My mother used to raise the chickens. We used to have a cluck. We didn't buy the little chickens. Ifwe had a cluck, then we had little chickens from the cluck. Did you know about that?

AS: But for your wedding ... ?

4 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: For the wedding, we had our own chickens, yes. She killed them and she had them in the earthen oven.

RF: The roosters.

MF: Did you buy the little chicks special for your wedding and raise them for the wedding?

MF: No, no, we had them. We had a cluck. That's what they called it; the cluck was the mama of the little chickens. I think my mama was raising the chickens.

RF: I built a shed off of the garage and there was refrigerator doors... My brother worked for Hamm's [Brewing] at that time and used to put in these refrigerators in these old beer joints, you know. They were about four or five inches thick. I put that all alongside ofthatExhibit garage and made a chicken coop and that's where she had her chickens right off that garage.

MF: We came here in 1931, so we were married in 1943. So that was twelve years from Italy to America that we got married. She raised the chickens because weHouse couldn't get the meat.

BF: Didn't you have fifty people at your wedding? Open MF: Oh, yes. Society Project BF: Did you have that many chickens? Society MF: Oh, yes, we had enough chickens and enough salami, and enough of everything for the people ... HistoryHistorical RF: Cold slices. HistoricalOral MF: .. .like our relatives, the people that came from work from the Great Northern. I worked in the department ofdisbursements with Mr. Delavan-no Delavan was the paymaster. Anyways, they all came. These guys that kind of knew us and they knew me and they came to the wedding, yes. So, between the relations and the peopleMinnesota from work, there was quite a few people.

RF: We Minnesotahad plenty of wine, too, homemade wine.

MF: Homemade that Papa made, yes.

RF: Her dad had the best winepress in the whole neighborhood. I don't know ifit's still there yet or not. It was made all out of cement.

MF: My uncle that was my godfather, my mother's brother, they built that up. I wonder if it's still there, ifthe house is even [unclear].

5 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview BF: Where did you get the grapes?

MF: She bought them.

RF: Yes, bought them.

MF: We had zinfandel grapes and, then, there was another make of grapes called the [sounds like al­ i-gone-dee] that my papa used. He used both of those.

RF: You had Damiani's ...

MF: You'd get cases of grapes. Exhibit RF: They came in crates.

MF: Then, they have to crush them and, then, you have to put them in a barrel until they ferment. Then, you put them in this press. You taste it to see if it's just right,House you know. Then, that's how you make your wine. The alcohol comes with it, you know. At one time, you could only make 200 gallons of wine and somebody reported us that we had too much wine or something. So, the guy came and he took a bottle to test it. After he tested it, heOpen wanted some of that wine, it was so good. Society [laughter] Project BF: So, he didn't cause you any trouble afterSociety that? MF: No, no, no, no trouble. HistoryHistorical AS: Then, you also grew grapes? HistoricalOral RF: Did you see the picture there?

BF: Yes, we've seen the picture of the grape ... Minnesota MF: Grapevines. But, it was not the best grapes for wine. This is Concord grapes. That's what grows here.Minnesota RF: Little blue ...

AS: Did your family plant those grapes?

MF: They probably did, yes. Because they grow here. You have to prune them and everything.

BF: We were wondering if you could tell us some more about how you redid the house for Rose.

6 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: Oh, yes. Her husband died. He was sideswiped by a train. She always said that they wanted to go back to New York when he died. So, then, she stayed her about three months after he died and, then, she decided to go to New York. Well, she'd been here most of her life and when she went to New York, she had a real sister-we were related to her through her husband-and she couldn't adjust. She couldn't adjust to the way that they lived there. After we had the casket for him moved to New York, because they wanted to go both to New York... Then, she left and we had this upstairs; one side had an upstairs. So, we were going to just make an apartment up there. Well, within three months, my papa had had the stroke. In 1943, my father had a stroke and my father couldn't talk anymore for five years. She would write us real sad letters that she didn't like it there. She asked if we would take her back. So, being that we were making this apartment upstairs ... She'd owned the house and she'd sold it to us and, then, she wanted to come back. So, that upstairs ... she came right in time. Exhibit RF: I remodeled the upstairs, so we had an apartment for her to come back.

MF: It was a real nice little apartment just for her. She lived upstairs. She went to sleep upstairs. A lot of times, she'd make a fast little soup and my children loved HouseAunt Rose's soup. [laughter] We didn't have a grandma. My parents were all [unclear] up. My kids loved her. They'd say, "We don't have a grandma, but we've got Aunt Rose." They call it [sounds like Zia-ahz]. That's Aunt Rose. Then, she lived with us until we sold the house. WeOpen sold that house in 1956 and we moved up here. Of course, up here, I already had three children. My brother andSociety I were real close and she was my brother's godmother for baptism, so then she slept overProject there. My brother lived right next door here. But, she was here most of the day and, then, just went to sleep. I knew her since I was twelve, eleven, years old. [unclear] I used to punchSociety bread for her because she had a sore finger. She loved the kids. She loved my kids and even Jerry's kids. History BF: Russell, you said you remodeled the third floor?Historical What did you actually do?

RF: I tore out all the windowsHistorical of theOral whole house and, then, I put in a new bathroom for her. Then, she had privacy, see? She had a kitchen, practically new, and her own bedroom. She even had a little living room, didn't she? Minnesota MF: I don't know if she had a living room. But she had a little kitchen, a bathroom, and a bedroom.

RF: That'sMinnesota the way it was.

BF: How did she enter? How did she get up there?

RF: From the front.

MF: There was a door closed from the bottom apartment and, then, they both had the key.

RF: I closed in the whole front of the house.

7 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: She had a key to go in her upstairs apartment. There was an entrance for both. She went upstairs.

BF: So, that reduced your space?

MF: But, see, then we lived next door with Mama and Papa and, then, we even rented the downstairs when my brother got married. In the apartment downstairs, they lived downstairs and Aunt Rose lived upstairs and, of course, my papa had died and Mama was with us.

BF: Okay, I've got it.

MF: Yes, okay. Exhibit BF: We were going to ask you if you could sketch the floor plan for us. I find it so hard to keep just what the rooms ...

MF: Okay, let's see how we can sketch. House

BF: It doesn't have to be fancy. Open MF: Maybe we could sketch it in a real small kind of space, not on here, but sketch it on a piece of Society paper. Project BF: This is fine. Society AS: It doesn't have to be fancy. HistoryHistorical MF: When you came in the house ... When you came in on Hopkins Street, you could see that house all at once. There was a door here andOral a door here. It was 470 and 472. It had a big porch first, like you see in the picture withHistorical columns. It was so pretty. We closed it in after we got married and we had the whole porch together; the whole porch was together. When you came into the house ... Where did we live, in 470 or 472? Minnesota RF: Four-seventy is here and 472 here. Minnesota MF: Four-seventy is here?

RF: Yes.

MF: Okay.

AS: You lived in 470.

8 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: [sounds like Zia-ahz] always would come up this way and she could walk right away the steps into the second floor, the upper floor.

MF: There were steps here. Wait a minute. When she went upstairs ... This was the entrance ofthe porch. The porch was enclosed and then the key to the porch ... There was a key ... another door. You entered the porch and, then, there was a door to go in the house. Can you figure that out? So, there was a door here and a door to go in the house. [sounds like Zia-ahz's] house then, you could go upstairs and, over here, there was a door for the bottom apartment. The bottom apartment here had a front room and a living room. They had another room that was a living room. She used this for a bedroom. This was kind of a space [unclear] and, then, there was a big kitchen. When she moved, out of this kitchen, we made. .. We lived here, too, after she went to New York. My mother lived on this side and we lived on this side. So, we made a bathroom here and we had the front room. She had the bedroom, but then when she left, we had the living roomExhibit and kind of a dining room and the kitchen and bathroom right here and a bedroom right here. I had the three kids all with us in this bedroom. [laughter]

BF: Could you write kitchen or bedroom? House

MF: [sounds like Zia-ahz's] bedroom. But, it was our front room when she left. This is downstairs. Open Society BF: You can write front room. Project AS: I just want to make sure I have this clear.Society When Rose and Filimino lived downstairs, they used this as their bedroom? History MF: Yes. When we came from Italy, we lived overHistorical here. We lived over here with Mama until she [Rose] went to New York, till she left, until her husband died. Then, we bought this part of the house and we fixed it, moreHistorical or less, likeOral this so we could stay here. Mama and Papa and my brother could live on this side, at 470. This was one apartment here. Have I got this now pretty good?

BF: Yes. Minnesota MF: This was a bathroom here. This is front room. This is dining room. This was the bedroom. But this wasMinnesota dining room all the time. Then, this was a kitchen downstairs. This was the up ... Bath and bedroom. That's how we used it.

This is now for 470. Four-seventy was just kind of the same thing. You had the porch with door and there was a door here, too. When you come in, this is the porch, all porch. The porch was enclosed. Here, too, there was this door coming in here and this door here. Then, you came in through the door and there was a big closet here, a real big closet. Here was the big closet as you come in through door. Then, you kind of walked on this side from the closet. I don't know if it was even with the closet. There was a large living room.

9 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: And dining room. They were big rooms, very large.

MF: These were the rooms downstairs. [unclear] what he did here. This is the dining room.

RF: And kitchen.

MF: Kitchen.

RF: Let me help you a little bit here. We had a door coming off the dining room to go up the steps to go upstairs to the second floor.

MF: Between the living room and dining room, the door was going upstairs here. Exhibit RF: That went all the way up to the second floor.

MF: This is the downstairs and this is upstairs. There was a door here to go upstairs. Then, when you got upstairs, [unclear]. House

RF: That's inside our house where we lived. The steps that go up this way were [sounds like Zia­ ahz's]. Open Society MF: Yes, this downstairs and these go directly upstairs Projectto her room up there. Downstairs was the bedroom. She must have got in someplace around here to go into her apartment then. Society BF: Are there also steps in here, up? History MF: Yes, to go up from the porch. Like in order toHistorical come in this house, you have to come into the front bedroom. HistoricalOral BF: Is there a connection to the inside of the house between the second and the first floor? Are there steps out ofthe kitchen?

MF: The steps are out. Minnesota

RF: No. Minnesota MF: Here's a door to come in here in the living room.

BF: Yes, that's from the front.

MF: From the front and, then, the steps go just right up.

BF: Okay.

10 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: See, you can come in this way and you can go up this way. So, that's why it was okay for two apartments to live here, because this door was locked and, then, this door was open. To come in here, it was open. But, then, coming up here, she had her own key and she went up to this little apartment upstairs, which was above here.

AS: We thought that in the kitchen, in this apartment, that there was a doorway with some steps that were blocked off. Do you remember that?

MF: In the kitchen, yes, yes, yes. You could go upstairs on the side. On the side here, there was a stairway and you could go upstairs on this side.

BF: Into what? From what room? Exhibit MF: Let me see. You could go upstairs to the bedrooms upstairs. See, because this was like one house.

AS: Right. House

MF: We put these up when we redid it. Open BF: Oh, they weren't [unclear]? Society Project MF: They weren't even there, no. No, no. They went upstairs and they came downstairs from here to go to the bedroom. Society

BF: But, were there also steps just out of the kitchen? HistoryHistorical MF: Out of the kitchen? Let me see now. HistoricalOral RF: No.

MF: That's where the steps cameMinnesota out. They came out of the kitchen. RF: [unclear] to the kitchen. Minnesota BF: Here?

MF: Yes, yes. They were right here. They came up right out of the kitchen, yes.

BF: But, you added these steps?

MF: These steps, too, were here though.

RF: They were there. We didn't add them. 11 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: Yes, they were there. What did we use them for? To go up to the attic, I suppose. But, they were there. They both had steps going up.

BF: So, then, what would you see on the second floor? Shall we move the page up?

MF: Yes. The second floor on this side then. The door for [sounds like Zia-ahz] to go into the little kitchen ...

RF: The entrance would be between the steps and the kitchen.

MF: Kind of close to the steps was the door here. This was a nice little kitchen. Exhibit RF: The door would be right here.

MF: I got the door right here. Then, from the kitchen, there was a bedroom ... kind of a little living room because she had a davenport. House

RF: And, then, the bedroom. Open MF: It was kind of small. There's a bathroom up here, too. She had her own private bathroom. Society RF: The bathroom was between the kitchen and the backProject of the kitchen, this way. Society MF: I think the bathroom was back here. She entered [unclear] to the bathroom. There was a great big attic, too, up here. Okay, then she wentHistory upstairs, kind of coming here. Once you got in here, there was a platform. Maybe it was here. The bathroomHistorical was in here, at the end of the thing. The bedroom and the little living room because she had a davenport in there. Oral RF: We put the bathroomHistorical at the end.

MF: I don't know if that was in there or not. Minnesota RF: No, it wasn't there. We put it in when we remodeled. Minnesota MF: I don't remember that so good. I wonder where it is now. Have you been in the house at all?

BF: I've been in parts of it.

MF: Do you know?

BF: There is another apartment up there still with a bathroom.

MF: Yes, there is a bathroom. 12 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview BF: I don't know exactly where it's at.

MF: It's between here.

BF: So, what would you have on your side?

MF: On our side, now our side was altogether different. In our side was living room, dining room, and kitchen.

BF: Then, on the second floor?

MF: Between the living room and dining room .. .living room steps goingExhibit down in the basement here, too, in between these rooms. There were steps to go down to the basement. The basement steps came maybe on this end. Not here but here were the basement steps going down between both houses. They had basement steps doing down here in the middle and basement steps going over here. House

When my father had the stroke ... I think first Aunt Rose had the stroke and when she had the stroke, Mama and I would go from the basement to her house.Open See, there was a connection that you could go to both houses down there. We would try to take care of her by ..Society .instead of going outside, we'd go through the inside. When it was winter, we'd go insideProject of the porch. We would go downstairs and go see each other. Society This is the way the kitchen and front room ... Right over here between the kitchen and living room ... I got to tell you a little story here. Mitchi wasHistory just born. My papa had a stroke and my mama had cancer and my father died then. He died that year. HistoricalI had the buggy here. It was close to midnight. Russell went to Midnight Mass and I was kind ofleery that night. My father had died. I'm in the kitchen here. You come rightHistorical into theOral living room and the kitchen and my baby was right here. I'm trying to work for Christmas Day dinner and I heard the front door open. He came through the front door. This is how you would come in. So, it was after midnight and I was kind of scared. I just was kind of scared this night. Well, I wasMinnesota working in the kitchen. This is something that. .. I heard the door open in the front room. My little girl was here and I heard footsteps right to the kitchen. I got scared. So, Mama was sick upstairs and she heard me. I was kind of watching the baby in the crib and I followedMinnesota those steps. Mama heard me. She said, "Michelina, what's the matter? Are you afraid?" [pause] I can just ... I don't know what happened. But, I could swear he ... I went to look at the door. When I heard the steps, I was so happy that Russell was home. I said, "Russell, I'm so glad you're home." And Russell wasn't there. Yes. That's ... I never believe in ghosts or anything like that, but this happened right there with the little baby in the ... And, I followed those steps. So, that's just a little story. But, it happened to me this Christmas night. He had died in 1947. He died in October and this was Christmas that night. Yes.

BF: You heard the steps coming in here?

13 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: Yes, I heard the steps coming like into the living room, you know. He's coming ... See, we had our own little door here to come in here. But, this was the stairway from our dining room and living room going upstairs, to the bedrooms upstairs and Mama was upstairs in the bedroom. [chuckles]

BF: What would your bedroom [unclear] look like up here?

MF: When we got married, this was my papa and mama ...

RF: We had the upstairs bedroom above the kitchen.

MF: There's just only two bedrooms on the second floor, only two bedrooms. Of course, when Mama died, we moved over here. Then, we had these rooms with the babiesExhibit and everything, right here. I had this bedroom when I got married and Papa .... We lived on Mama's side?

RF: Yes, and we had the bedroom above the kitchen. House MF: These stairs came up here. Then, we had the bathroom.

RF: The bathroom was between our bedroom and yourOpen mother's bedroom. Society MF: Yes. Oh, yes, Papa and Mama slept here for a while.Project RF: Just above the steps. Society

MF: And we slept here and my little brother must have slept on the davenport downstairs. HistoryHistorical RF: Downstairs, right. HistoricalOral MF: So, this was our bedroom.

RF: When you got above the steps, you had a big like a hallway that went down to our bedroom. Then, there was a door this way thatMinnesota went up to the attic. The attic was just as big as the second floor. Minnesota MF: It was big.

RF: We used to hang up our homemade sausage.

MF: In the bathroom, it had to have a cord down, hanging down, to flush the toilet.

RF: I almost fell out of the window off of the bathroom tub. I was changing the storm windows to the screens, see? Those windows were about ten feet high and about that wide. You could just barely hold on to them and I was in the tub with the storm window in my hands trying to pull it 14 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview through and I went forward. I just caught myself on the side. Otherwise, I would have went down. I would have went down two floors. I changed all those windows in that whole house. I had an Irishman by the name of[sounds like Shur-ee] Moore that worked at the Great Northern with me and he put all those new windows in.

BF: What was the difference between the old ones and the new ones?

RF: Ohh!

MF: They were old. [laughter] They were old and they were big windows.

RF: They were so large. Exhibit MF: In order to change them upstairs, it was two floors. When my mother was dying-I haven't got this picture just right-there was a storm. She was downstairs then. She was dying over here. In the living room, we had a bed for her. House RF: Two walls in that house.

MF: Wait a minute. I know that part. Open Society RF: Instead of insulation, they had plaster twice. Project

MF: When the storm came-up here we Societyhad windows-this window blew down right where she was laying down in the living room here. We had a bed for her because she was sick with cancer, you know. This window from this bedroomHistory came Historicalright down. AS: Did your kids ever sleep in this bedroom then? HistoricalOral MF: Yes, yes. Yes, when my mama and papa were gone, that's where they slept then. My brother went in the Navy and, then, when he came home, he slept here, too. Minnesota AS: At that point, you were renting this downstairs?

MF: Yes,Minnesota we rented to what's their name? Jerry Hurley, the Hurleys lived there. We rented to them. First, we rented to somebody else that was really religious and everything for forty-five bucks with heat and everything.

RF: We had the worst renters.

MF: What was that NYA or something like that that you had to have ... They reported to us that we were charging too much. They moved out. I can't remember their names.

15 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: We were charging forty-five dollars a month with heat. Next door to us was a real old house. I forget the name, not DePalma.

MF: The [sounds like Foo-chees] lived in that house.

RF: They had a real old home there. That was about a hundred years old, too.

MF: A hundred or more.

RF: They didn't have a furnace or anything. I was supplying furnace heat and this one time we had this woman and we called up some heating company and they came out and they checked the furnace and said, "Well, man! let's take a look at your thermostat." She had the thermostat up to eighty degrees. He said, "That's where your oil went to." A whole tank of oil wouldExhibit be gone in half a month. Then, they cut us down. This one person was a very good Christian, worked at Minnesota Mining, and we rented to him. Oh, he was so pious when he came and he w.ould do real nice and take care of the house and everything. We said, "Okay," so we rented the house to him for forty-five dollars a month. Then, we got turned in again, that we were chargingHouse too much. He turned us in and said that we were charging too much.

BF: Why? What were the rules about how much you Opencan charge? Society MF: At that time, there were rules, that if you charged tooProject much, you got contacted. Anyways, those people, I kind of forgot their names. They lived there for a little while and, then, the Hurleys came. Jerry Hurley, he's got this Hurley's foods [Jerry'sSociety Produce] on Case [Avenue] here. They lived there and they were nice. After that, then Angela [Krismer] ... History RF: My niece. Historical

MF: They came, too, then.Historical Then, weOral sold it, I think. I don't think I remember anybody else after Angela.

RF: No. Angela was the last. Minnesota MF: I think we sold it then. Minnesota BF: Can you write bedroom and ...

MF: Oh, yes.

AS: Can you tell us a little bit more about why you decided to enclose the porch?

MF: It was convenient for us to enclose it, to screen it. Like in the past, we'd sleep right out on the porch. [unclear] Androzzi' s were living on one side. It was just like one family. We enjoyed it together, you know. 16 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview This is kind of a living room for her.

BF: No, this is your side though.

MF: This is the toilet. She just had the bedroom.

[End of Tape 1, Side 1]

[Tape 1, Side 2 is blank}

[Tape 2, Side 1] Exhibit MF: ... time to ski ... What do they call it? The game ...

AS: Hockey? House MF: Hockey, yes. The little kids go for hockey.

RF: Hockey and soccer and basketball. Open Society MF: Swimming. Project RF: They do everything. Society MF: We never had that. My kids never had that.History When we didn't have the money, the kids used to make their own little doll houses and whatever with Historicalcardboard, you know. There was a little article in the paper about how the kids got so much and they're bored. My kids were never bored because they had things to do. HistoricalOral RF: Do you know what kind of a playground we had? We had an old lot across the street from 470 Hopkins Street. There was an old lot there right on the comer of Desoto and Hopkins. That's where we played our football and softball.Minnesota It went up like a hill, straight and psht, like that. That was our outfield. Minnesota MF: They have some kind of a deal down there.

BF: There's a tennis club there. Was there a building behind the house? There's a Kenny Boiler [& Manufacturing Company] now, but that wasn't there?

RF: No, no. That's down there towards Seventh Street. .. Kenny Boiler.

MF: There was nothing behind our house because my mother had a garden. That was our garden.

17 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: That was on Woodward Street. Then, across the street from the old st. Ambrose Church was the old Woodward Annex. That thing was about a hundred years old when we left. That was a real old place. Seven-Up was across the street, the same side as the St. Ambrose Church was.

MF: Vanderbie's Ice Cream was there.

RF: Vanderbie's was there.

BF: And Seven-Up, you said?

RF: Seven-Up Bottling Company.

MF: That was right next to St. Ambrose Church, the old church. Exhibit

BF: So, the old church was down by Vanderbie's?

RF: Yes. House

MF: Yes, yes, on Payne Avenue, yes. Open AS: Can you tell us a little bit about what your mother or what you grew in the garden? Society MF: Tomatoes was the main thing and com and mustardProject greens, cabbage, Italian chicory, whatever. She had the most beautiful garden, no weeds,Society a big garden. When she died, she had com on the cob and people would come and see her. She was in bed in the room here in 470. My mother had a bed here and I had to go up the steps ... HistoryHistorical RF: We had a daybed in the comer. Oral MF: Yes, right here. PeopleHistorical would come and visit her and she'd say, "Go out and pick some com for this one. Get something out there." She'd tell me what food to pick for somebody that they liked. Yes. She was in here for four months with that cancer. Minnesota AS: How many tomato plants would she have? Minnesota MF: Oh, she'd ... [chuckles] She had more tomato plants ... ohhh.

RF: She had about fifty, at least.

MF: Fifty, yes. But, the garden, it was a big garden. She kept it really nice.

AS: What would she do with the tomatoes then?

18 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: Can them, oh, yes. We canned. After she didn't live anymore, even my sister-in-law that's Polish, we used to go pick about ten bushels of tomatoes and can ten bushels of tomatoes, yes.

BF: Was she growing that to save money or to make it taste better?

MF: She made it because there was room there and that's what they did in Italy, you know.

RF: You don't have to buy them then, see.

MF: There was room and nobody used that land and she kept it nice and clean and, besides, we had a lot of food.

BF: Did you continue the garden yourself? Exhibit

MF: No, I was not such a good gardener. I was usually doing the housework in the house and she'd be in the garden. [laughter] House BF: What happened to the garden after she was gone?

MF: Well, then, I think after she was gone, we didn't stayOpen there too long. She died in 1949 and in 1956 ... I tried to do some of it, but I didn't have good results. I doSociety better now. Project RF: There was about a half an acre back there. Society MF: I've got a little garden over here now. I got six tomato plants and some pepper plants and basil. Do you like basil? I've got lots ofbasil backHistory here. And, she used to have celery also, anything, you know, that you can plant. Historical

BF: You sold the house toHistorical the Gallaghers,Oral is that right? MF: Yes, I guess it must have been Gallaghers. I've kind of forgotten.

RF: That's so many years ago. Minnesota

BF: Do youMinnesota remember how you felt when you ... ?

MF: Oh, I almost had a nervous breakdown.

RF: She almost had a heart attack.

MF: A nervous breakdown, for sure. First of all, we have a balance to pay and I had the three children, you know. Russell, he had about three different jobs to support us. Oh, it was quite a while before .. .like I was more in the neighborhood, more accustomed to the people that you know and everything. Then, moving up here, I thought you'd have to put on, you know, the dog and I didn't 19 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview have any dogs to put on. [laughter] Joe used to come home from school and Russell would say, "How you doing today?" He'd say, "Not that good. The kids ... " I felt sorry for those kids [unclear].

RF: He was [unclear].

MF: But, eventually, I thought what the heck? I've got to live in that house, being a new house from an old house. I thought I had to put up with the people, that these people up here were more wealthier than I was and I was a poor lady. [laughter] Then, I made up my mind, oh, what the heck? I've got to live in that house. I'll do whatever I can with it. That's it. I got out of it. But, you go through transitions, you know?

BF: Yes. Exhibit

MF: Yes. We had a very really neighbor across the street at the time and, then, my brother lived right next door. So, we managed. I went to church and the kids went to school, The Blessed Sacrament, and found nice people, nice teachers that were kind Houseand so, then I started liking it.

Then the balance got better and better. My mother, when she died, she said, "You were good to me and your father. Now, there's a little money left in Italy.Open Even if you have a trip, just go and have fun because you treated me okay. You were okay." We went to Italy and I have a nice uncle in Italy Society and they had a little money in Italy. This was after we wereProject pretty well organized. This was 1964. This is the same uncle did all the work for me to get the money. So, then, we put that money on the house and we paid the house in no time. Then,Society I started feeling better. I never liked to charge too much [unclear]. History RF: And we've been up here forty-six years. Historical

MF: Yes. HistoricalOral BF: So, how did you decide to move?

MF: Because ... Oh, I don't knowMinnesota what we decided to move. I suppose everybody was kind of moving and we got a little money from the house to put down on the down payment for his house. Minnesota RF: Well, we figured the house was so old. At that time, I figured the house was so old and it had to have a lot of fixing to do. Of course, I did remodel all the new windows and... It was so old fashioned that I thought that I'd like to get out and get into something better, so we took a chance, see?

BF: Is this area called Hazel Park?

MF: Yes.

20 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview BF: I gather that a lot of Italian people were moving here?

RF: They were moving all over.

MF: Not too many. There's not too many Italian people, even at Blessed Sacrament. Like at Blessed Sacrament now, I have a lot of my good Italian friends that you get used to, they're dead. So, now, I've got a couple of. .. One's Irish and I don't know what the other one is. One is eighty­ two years old. Her name is Dee. The other one is as old as my little brother, so I call her my little sister. Her name is Polly. Anyways, I had them join the Merrick Community Services and they are just enjoying it. There's about twenty of us ladies there and we get along with each other and they love my two American friends, otherwise [unclear]. [laughter]

RF: This whole community is really beautiful, quiet and nice, very seldomExhibit ever have had any trouble.

MF: Except that we had [Anthony] Zappa right in our backyard, the guy that they were looking for. House RF: [chuckles]

BF: You had what? Open Society RF: That Zappa that they were looking for. Project AS: Oh, you told us this story. Society

BF: Oh, yes. HistoryHistorical MF: He was right in our driveway. HistoricalOral RF: He was right next to our door, right here, about two feet away from the garage.

MF: Russell was sitting right here and he didn't even see him. I look and who's that guy in the driveway? Who is that guy in theMinnesota driveway?

[laughter]Minnesota

BF: I wonder if we could ask you a little more about Filimino's accident with the train?

MF: Oh, yes. That was so sad because they had no children and we were related and we loved each other. We really did ... together. This one night, it was Thanksgiving night and we had a little together, had them with us and they were on our side here. Well, it was a real bad night for snowing and he worked as a laborer on the railroad tracks. Filimino worked on the railroad tracks. They called, but he was over at our house, but he found out that he had to go do this job. I tried to talk ... I went down through the basement again, like we used to meet, and there he was changing his clothes 21 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview and going to work. I said, "Uncle-we call everybody uncl e-[uncl ear] , don't go to work tonight. It's a bad night and you're over with us. Stay with us now." I just begged him not to go to work there. He was kind of a nice little man, you know, [unclear] to do his job. Before you knew it, [sounds like Zia-ahz] was on the phone and she come out from her house to our house where we had the dining room, where we used to go up and down the steps. She came up and she said, "Something happened to Filimino." He was sideswiped from the train. There was not a sore on him, but he was unconscious for a whole week. I was pregnant with Nellie and Aunt Rose had already had a stroke, too, herself. So, I tried to take care of them at this particular time. It was Thanksgiving, in November and Nellie was born in May. It was kind of a hard time at that time.

BF: Was there some sort of court case afterwards?

MF: There was no court case. There was nothing. They just announced Exhibitso much money for an accident.

BF: The railroad? House MF: The railroad allowed, I don't know ifit was $7,000 that [sounds like Zia-ahz] kept.

BF: How did you go about getting that? Open Society MF: That was no problem. That was no problem, no. Project BF: Do you know if it was written up in theSociety paper, an accident that serious? MF: I don't even know ifit was written up Historyin the paper. It was a real bad time. This was 1948 ... Let me see now. Joe was born in 1944. Nellie wasHistorical born in 1946. Is that right?

RF: Yes. HistoricalOral MF: Joe was born in 1946 [sic] and Mitchi was born in 1948.

BF: An accident that serious, wasMinnesota it written up in the paper?

RF: I don'tMinnesota remember if it was written up in the paper. It's sO long ago. MF: What I was going to say is when Nellie was born, my father had a stroke and [sounds like Zia­ ahz] had already had a light stroke, not as bad as my father, and my mother had cancer and I had three kids-not three kids yet, but I was pregnant with one of them.

RF: I believe, myself, right today that if we knew more ... We were, you could say, a little ignorant about it, but I think she could have got more money if it went to court.

MF: Ohhh. 22 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: We didn't do anything about it.

MF: She got along with it. She had enough to live by. When she died, in fact, she had a little extra money.

RF: Like today, right away, you go to court when there's some kind of an accident.

MF: [sounds like Zia-ahz] she wanted ... The body was okay to be given over to New York ...

[telephone rings - break in the interview]

AS: Do you remember when she died? Exhibit

MF: Do I remember when Rose died? I was with her when she died.

AS: Do you know what year it was, Michelina? House

MF: That she died? Open AS: Yes. Society Project MF: [sounds like Zia-ahz] died in 1960. Society AS: Did she die in St. Paul? History MF: She died here, right here. She was living with Historicalus. I was at the hospital every day then, too, for her. HistoricalOral AS: Which hospital was that?

MF: I think it was Mounds Park. Minnesota BF: What did you want to ask about the obituary? Minnesota AS: In that interview that you did with Margot Galt, you had mentioned that you had obituary cards. I think maybe one was for Rose, that you had saved those.

MF: Yes.

AS: We were wondering whether you might still have those?

MF: I might still have them, yes. If you take this off, I can go get them.

23 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview AS: Okay. [chuckles]

BF: We'll maybe do that at the end?

MF: Yes, at the end. Yes, yes.

BF: In tenns of another thing that we wondered if you still had ... Dick Krismer, we talked to him. They were so nice to us.

MF: They're nice to me, too, and to Russell.

BF: They had fond memories ofthe phonograph that you had at your house. Exhibit MF: Oh, yes, yes.

BF: What did you used to do with the phonograph in Hopkins ... ? House MF: Just played it ifit was a special [unclear] Enrico's.

RF: I've got one downstairs. Open Society MF: Is it the same one? Project RF: Oh, I paid a lot of money for it. Society MF: It's similar. We had that one in the garage. HistoryHistorical RF: Let me tell the story about this one. This young fellow that was a good friend of mine, he wanted to know, "Do you want to buyOral myoId Victrola?" I said, "Yes, sure. How much do you want?" He said, "Twelve dollars."Historical I said, "Well, that's too much. I'll give you eleven dollars." So I got it for eleven dollars. And you could see it, when we get through here.

MF: I don't want you to take themMinnesota down!

RF: No, MinnesotaI can't take you down there. MF: It's just a mess down there.

RF: It is a mess.

MF: Well then, don't even mention that.

RF: It's a regular. .. beautiful.

24 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview BF: Wow. That's great.

RF: It has wooden needles and stands about this high. I've got all the old records, real old records.

MF: Same style that we had [sounds like Zia-ahz] [unclear].

BF: But, you don't have the one that you used to have?

MF: No, not that one, but this one is just like it.

BF: That's great. So, would you have dances there?

MF: No, we just played the ... Exhibit

RF: The Italian records.

MF: [sounds like Zia-ahz] would get some from New York. WhatHouse was the singer? Caruso, we had Caruso's records.

BF: Was there a neighborhood bandstand to hear music,Open live music? Society [break in the interview] Project BF: There was a comer store? Where wasSociety that? You were going to tell us about the comer store.

MF: The comer store was owned by Dora Frisco. She had it for quite a while. HistoryHistorical BF: Was it right on Hopkins and Payne? . HistoricalOral RF: Right on the comer.

MF: There was kind of a little joint, Morelli's joint next door, across from each other on Hopkins and ... Minnesota

RF: Morelli'sMinnesota had the grocery store there, too, across the street.

MF: It was kind of a joint.

RF: A grocery store, too. Mary Morelli was running it.

MF: I didn't know that. When I was living there, I don't think there was a grocery store.

BF: What was Joe, the iceman?

25 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: Joe, the iceman, yes.

BF: What was that story?

RF: It was a little shack.

MF: He used to sell ice in the neighborhood and he was Italian, you know.

BF: How would he get the ice?

MF: I used to get ice across the street, go on Lafayette [Road]. I know this one time, I went to get some ice in a little wagon and I gave the iceman, I think it was ten cents or a nickel for a chunk of ice. You took it on your wagon and I think I gave him a slug for a nickel. Exhibit RF: May I say some more?

MF: Now, wait a minute. I thought I was all it because I was gettingHouse this ice cheap and I went home to my father and told him that I got this ice for [unclear]. He told me to go back and give the guy the right money. Open BF: Ohhh. Society RF: This Joe, the iceman, he was like a bachelor, wasn'tProject he?

MF: Yes. Society

RF: Anyway, he had his little shack on the comerHistory ofHistorical Brunson [Street] and Hopkins. That was an old lot there and next to that old shack, they built a house, which was next to our lot of our old house .. .472 Hopkins, an old lot, and Oralthen on his comer lot was just a little shack, about half as big as this room. He would get hisHistorical ice from Vanderbie's or Capitol Ice Company, the scraps, and then he would sell it to the people around the neighborhood, see?

BF: He would deliver it or you'dMinnesota pick it up?

RF: No, Minnesotapick it up. BF: How would you do that?

RF: Your wagon. I had a four-wheeled wagon with iron wheels. [chuckles]

BF: Why would you need the ice?

RF: 'Cause we didn't have no refrigerators. We had the icebox.

26 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview BF: When did you get a refrigerator then?

RF: Ohhh ...

MF: In 1940, that's when we got ours.

RF: I guess when I married her.

MF: Nineteen forty? You married me in 1943. Three years after. We had a refrigerator in 1940. We had a Ken .. .like Sears has.

AS: Kenmore? Exhibit MF: Kenmore, I think that's what we had.

BF: Again, in this other interview, you mentioned a couple of photos that we wanted to ask you about. One was that you said you had a picture of the ship that Houseyou came on?

MF: Not a picture of the ship, but I still have-but they're in the safety deposit box-my things from the ship. Augustus, it was. Open Society BF: What is it? Project MF: Augustus, the name of the ship. Society

BF: What kinds of things did you save? HistoryHistorical MF: It was from the little town and going into this big ship, I thought, sure enough, boy! this is really grand. Then, for breakfast,Historical theyOral had steak and eggs and, then, they had movies on the ship. Yes. Mama and I, we'd never been anyplace that far. We went to Naples and [unclear] Naples. The next morning, both of us got sick, seasick. [laughter] Then, we got pretty good in between times, but most of the time, we were seasick. There was a little boy, his father left him in charge. He was going to go see. .. His mother wasMinnesota sick and so, I guess, some relatives, because she was so sick, had him come to America, and he kind of adopted my mother. Every time I'd go sit next to Mama, he'd push meMinnesota away. [laughter] He could play ball with his head and everything on this ship. He was about ten years old, too, and he was in first class. We were in second class. Because he was in first class, I was able to go with him to first class. It was kind of nice.

BF: What things did you save in the safe deposit box?

MF: I got my pictures and Mama's pictures together. That's about it. I have my mother's marriage license and things like that.

71: Do you have the ticket froni the ship? 27 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview MF: The tickets, yes, from the ship.

BF: I gather Jerry put a slide show together for your fiftieth wedding anniversary?

MF: Yes, yes, he did.

BF: Did that use these same kinds of photos or was it photos that Jerry had?

MF: I think more or less the same kind. Don't you think so?

??: I think we gave him some. Exhibit MF: Some of the photos, yes.

BF: Well, thank you for talking to us so long. House RF: I closed that porch in, too, you see. That's the back porch next door to us. I closed that all in.

BF: You closed the back porch in? Open Society RF: Yes. Project BF: Why did you do that? What did you Societyuse that for? RF: I was doing the whole thing so I. .. HistoryHistorical MF: No. I think that's next door here. The porch is along here. I think it made more room for here, you know. It wasn't a big Historical... not a wideOral porch. RF: It was narrow.

BF: Which side was it on? Minnesota

MF: It wasMinnesota on each side. RF: On the side ofthe lot.

MF: Right here, there was a porch on each side. Like, he's sitting down here. See, this is this side. It's on the outside here.

BF: Could you write porch on here then?

AS: Now, there's an entrance? 28 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: Yes, there's an entrance here, too. That's in the back. The kitchen is in the back.

BF: Oh, so back here or up front?

RF: The kitchen's in the back.

BF: Right, here, I see.

AS: Another question we had for you ... When [unclear] were looking at the photos in black and white last year, we were trying to figure out what color the walls were. It sounds like the walls were a dark green in the living room. Do you remember that? Exhibit MF: Do you remember?

RF: Yes. House AS: I was wondering if you remember when you painted those or what kinds of redecorating you did? Open MF: Oh, you know, what we did with those walls ... I think they were more or less light colors. I Society don't think we had any dark color, but there was so muchProject wallpaper. We took all the wallpaper out. I don't know how many layers of wallpaper were there. Society AS: A lot oflayers? History MF: A lot oflayers and we took those all off and paintedHistorical it more light colors. I don't think we ever painted ... I don't know if you know that living room. In the living room, we had drapes, but all light colors, not dark colors,Historical inside ofOral the house. RF: It was sort of a ...

MF: Not dark colors. Minnesota

AS: WasMinnesota that a big job to take all that wallpaper off? RF: Ohh, ho, ho.

MF: Yes! it was always a big job.

RF: It was awful.

MF: It was a bigjob to try to get the things nicer, you know. Yes, it was a bigjob.

29 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: That's a good picture from the back.

BF: I'm looking at this story about the chickens that we asked you about at the beginning. I think it was Jerry who said this. He said that for your wedding, he bought a box of chicks and put them in the basement with lights to get them going.

MF: Maybe he remembers that. That was the little chickens with the lights. I don't remember in the basement. I don't remember that so good.

AS: He said that they grew and then your mother made them for the dinner.

BF: But, you remember you had chickens in the yard? Exhibit MF: Yes, we had chickens in the yard.

BF: I may go ask Jerry about that. House AS: They both could be...

MF: We used to have chickens. My Mama would try ...Open she'd do everything the way it shouldn't be done. I didn't pay too much attention to that. [laughter] Society RF: Of course, you have the picture of the bread. Project

BF: Yes. Society

RF: Those were those big loaves. HistoryHistorical BF: Let's show you the things. that weOral brought. In 1919, during World War I, there were a lot of surveys taken of immigrants.Historical So, I went to through the microfilm and some of the names are ... Anyone who was an immigrant had to fill out a form during the war. So, this is Angelo Mario Frascone, 518 [unclear]. There's Russell Frascone, age 2. I thought you might be interested. Minnesota MF: Oh, yes.

BF: TheyMinnesota ask questions about the family, like, "When did you come here?" "Have you filed citizenship papers?" I thought, since it related to your family, you might copies of these.

MF: Yes.

BF: Fortunato Frascone.

MF: Frascone, that's a relative, yes.

30 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview AS: These are yours. We made these copies for you.

MF: [unclear] Frascone, that's Nellie's godmother.

BF: She was six at Lincoln School. You know, this connects to something I was going to ask you. They say, "Why have you not taken out naturalization papers?" A lot of the answers were things like, "I can't speak English." "I'm unable to speak English." You said you helped people with the citizenship exam.

MF: Yes.

BF: Was it all in English? Exhibit MF: It was all in English, oh, yes.

BF: What kinds of questions did they ask people? Do you remember? House MF: Who was the first president ofthe United States? What kind of government do we have? Little stuff that they would ask, you know. Open BF: Was that a scary thing for people to take ifthey didn't know theSociety language? Project MF: It was kind of scary, but when I went with them, I think they had a lot of confidence. Because even Mama, my mama, I took my mama, SocietyMrs. [unclear] Francisco that I remember, Mrs. [sounds like Foo-chees], I took them there. They could basically write their name. I got my mother's citizenship papers. HistoryHistorical BF: Could you translate for them during the exam? HistoricalOral MF: I could translate somewhat, but I kind of knew the questions they were going to ask, so it kind of helped them out that way to get their papers.

BF: What made them decide to becomeMinnesota citizens?

MF: I thinkMinnesota that they felt better to be here in America and become an American citizen. My father got his when I was five years old. I was in Italy and I automatically became an American citizen. Mama didn't, so she had to get hers.

BF: Did the older people know how to write in Italian?

MF: No, they didn't even know how to write in Italian. They never went to school. I'd try to teach them how to write their names.

This says Tony [sounds like Ah-mah-dale] and Marie. 31 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview BF: Franco Frascone.

MF: Oh, this must be ...

BF: Is that the other Frascone?

MF: Let me see. Oh, Franco Frascone. He was born [sounds like Fie-yeent-tah-Iah-bah-tay] in 1860.

BF: That might be the other family. Is that right?

MF: Yes, they're all kind of related. Exhibit

BF: There's Mariano Frascone.

MF: Mariano, too, yes. This is Franco, but there was [unclear],House Miliano, and Giovanni, who were brothers. There's [sounds like Ger-ah-nee] Frascone, too. This goes with [unclear].

BF: Do you want us to staple them together? Open Society MF: Yes. Project BF: Do you have a stapler? Society MF: Yes. HistoryHistorical BF: Do you want me to get it for you? Oral MF: Oh, no. You know, HistoricalBenjamin ...

BF: Yes? I can get it if you tell me where it is. Minnesota MF: I'll get it. Minnesota AS: You could have done that.

BF: Yes, this I could have done. [laughter]

MF: I wish that you had found something about my father when he came.

BF: We did.

MF: Dominic D' Aloia? [gasp] Oh! 32 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview AS: [unclear] Cucchiarella is in there.

MF: Ohhh!

BF: I just don't want to get them mixed up.

MF: My father, like when he came, he came to America quite a few times. The first time, he was seventeen years old.

AS: In 1918, he would have been in the war, right?

MF: Yes, he went and fought with Italy. Exhibit

AS: I think Filimino Cucchiarella is in there. I don't know if your dad is in there or not.

BF: Tony Frascone. Anyone of these that are not right, you canHouse just stuff. Angelo Cucchiarella. Antonio Cucchiarella.

MF: This could be my uncle. He lived in the house, too.Open Antonio Cucchiarella lived in the house, the 470 and 472. These are different CucchiarelIas, not my Cucchiarellas.Society Project BF: Here. Society MF: Filimino Cucchiarella. Let me see now. [unclear] st. Paul, Minnesota. [pause] This Salvadore. That's his brother. United States. Yes, this is Filimino Cucchiarella that lived at 470. HistoryHistorical BF: Yes. HistoricalOral MF: They came here in ... He had a brother by the name of Salvadore and that's his brother, too, and Gianno Cucchiarella. Gianno is a brother, yes.

BF: I don't think we have your father.Minnesota

MF: My Minnesotafather. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

BF: Sorry. We have Frascones and Cucchiarellas.

AS: What we do have though, we could send you a copy of the 1930 census, which lists Dominic D'Aloia.

MF: Dominic Antonio was his name.

See, there's Fragneto L' Abate, is all over the place. That's my little town. 33 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview BF: Yes.

MF: Oh, do you know what this is? Oh, this is-gee, they're all dead-Mariano Cucchiarella. Helen is still living and Helen is the daughter of Mariano. Miguel was eleven years old. They were both dead living in Italy, yes. Joseph Cucchiarella was the brother. Now, his grandson, Miguel's grandson, is a priest at St. Pascal's over here, Father Brioschi.

BF: Maybe he would like to see this.

MF: That would be nice, or his mother, too, is Mary Ann Brioschi, so she would.

BF: Your father would have been in Italy in 1918? Exhibit MF: Yes, because he went back.

This one is Mikail Cucchiarella. Mathew Cucchiarella. WhenHouse they come from the same town ... This is [sounds like Fie-yeent-tah-Iah-bah-tay], too. When they come from the same town, everybody knows everybody. I was only eleven years old, so I do pretty good with some [unclear]. Dominic and Florence Cucchiarella. This is Sam Cucchiarella'sOpen family. So, he was twenty years old? Yes, I know who these guys are, the Cucchiarellas. Dominic and Florence, I know those guys. This is Mariano Cucchiarella. Yes, this would be nice for them. Society Project RF: They've got Fortunato here, too, bigSociety Della Frascone's father. MF: Yes. [unclear] 1869 [unclear]. HistoryHistorical RF: There was really some old houses in the neighborhood. On the corner of Partridge and Woodward .. .I think somebody just bought that house now and is fixing it up to be an office. HistoricalOral BF: Oh, yes, the Brunson House.

RF: The Frascones lived there, too.Minnesota

BF: TheyMinnesota lived in the Brunson House? RF: Yes.

MF: Oh, yes.

RF: They were the ones that were the last ones, yes. Mary Frascone and Tony Frascone. I don't know what their mother's name was.

MF: These are really [unclear]. Decatur Street. Salvadore Cucchiarella lived on Decatur Street. 34 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview RF: That's Sam.

MF: Oh, yes, that's Sam Cucchiarella.

RF: Who is Israel Cucchiarella? Most of them here lived on Bradley [Street].

[pause]

RF: Who made these all out, because these people couldn't write English?

MF: They wrote the best they could. Exhibit BF: I think they must have been talking to a surveyor.

RF: Somebody else, an interpreter. Yes. House BF: I think it must have been a scary thing for them to be asked all these questions during the war and have to file these forms. Open RF: Yes. Society Project BF: And try to explain why they're not a citizen. Society MF: Yes. Very interesting. I'll have to have more time to ... History BF: Sure. Those are for you. I know some of themHistorical are not related to you.

MF: But I still know ... IfHistorical it's FragnetoOral L' Abate, it's my little town. BF: We left our normal forms at work to borrow these photographs, so I just wrote this up saying that you were loaning these photos to be duplicated for potential use for exhibit: eight family photos. We'll return them to you when we'reMinnesota done copying them.

MF: Okay.Minnesota

BF: If you could sign that, that will have to do for now. I'm sorry.

AS: [unclear] very quickly because we can scan them [unclear].

BF: Ifnot before, I could bring them back when we see Nellie.

MF: Yes.

35 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview AS: That will work. That would be just three weeks from now.

BF: These are the forms that you filled out before about the interview saying that the words that you said today, we could potentially use them also for exhibit.

MF: Okay.

BF: If you want to put any restrictions, if there's anything that you talked about that you don't want us to use, you can say that.

MF: I don't think I said anything today.

[laughter] Exhibit BF: No, I don't think there's anything. It's up to you.

MF: I don't think I said anything that would hurt anybody, no. House

BF: No. Then, Russell has one. Today is the 31 st. Open MF: Yes, July 31 st. Society BF: Sometimes our interviews end up in the library. If youProject like, you could give us permission to put it in our library by checking that or you couldSociety skip that. MF: I think it's okay. That doesn't hurt. HistoryHistorical BF: This is if you wanted any restrictions and then here you sign, and we can write your address on it. HistoricalOral AS: Mostly what we need is your signature right there. That's the most important part.

MF: We grant ownership rights toMinnesota the ...

[End of TapeMinnesota 2, Side 1] [End of the Interview]

Transcribed by: Beverly A. Hermes Hermes Transcribing and Research Service 12617 Fairgreen Avenue, St. Paul, MN 55124-8213 (952) 953-0730 [email protected]

36 Russell and Michelina Frascone 2nd Interview