L E G I S L A T I V E C O U N C I L O F F I C I A L R E P O R T

R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L Y C H O O N C E I L S L A T T Y S S A G H

P R O C E E D I N G S

D A A L T Y N

HANSARD

Douglas, Tuesday, 27th February 2018

All published Official Reports can be found on the Tynwald website:

www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard

Supplementary material provided subsequent to a sitting is also published to the website as a Hansard Appendix. Reports, maps and other documents referred to in the course of debates may be consulted on application to the Tynwald Library or the Clerk of Tynwald’s Office.

Volume 135, No. 10

ISSN 1742-2272

Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © Court of Tynwald, 2018 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

Present:

The President of Tynwald (Hon. S C Rodan)

The Lord Bishop of Sodor and Man (The Rt Rev. P A Eagles), The Attorney General (Mr J L M Quinn QC), Mr D M Anderson, Mr M R Coleman, Mr C G Corkish MBE, Mr D C Cretney, Mr T M Crookall, Mr R W Henderson, Mr J R Turner and Mrs J P Poole-Wilson with Mr J D C King, Clerk of the Council.

Business transacted

1. Questions for Oral Answer...... 161 1.1. Biosphere Isle of Man Core Zones – Conservation work to sustain status ...... 161 1.2. Biosphere Isle of Man Core Zones – Importance; measuring biodiversity; sustainable activities...... 164 Order of the Day ...... 167 2. Tribute to outgoing Members – Appreciation expressed to Mr Anderson, Mr Coleman, Mr Corkish, Mr Turner and Mrs Poole-Wilson ...... 167 The Council adjourned at 11.20 a.m...... 172

______160 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

Legislative Council

The Council met at 10.30 a.m.

[MR PRESIDENT in the Chair]

The President: Moghrey mie, Hon. Members.

Members: Moghrey mie, Mr President.

5 The President: The Lord Bishop will lead us in prayer.

PRAYERS The Lord Bishop

The Lord Bishop: Before the Manx blessing, let us for a moment recall the 60th anniversary today of the Winter Hill plane crash and the 35 Manx residents who were killed on that day, commending them to Almighty God’s eternal care.

Members stood in silence.

1. Questions for Oral Answer

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE

1.1. Biosphere Isle of Man Core Zones – Conservation work to sustain status

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Henderson, to ask a representative of the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture:

What conservation work is being undertaken by the Department in the Biosphere Isle of Man Core Zones particularly in relation to sustaining the status of these zones?

10 The President: Hon. Members, we begin our Order Paper with Questions for Oral Answer and I call on the Hon. Member of Council, Mr Henderson.

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I wish to ask a representative, Mr Cretney, of the Department of Environment what conservation 15 work is being undertaken by the Department in the Biosphere Isle of Man Core Zones particularly in relation to sustaining the status of these zones?

______161 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

The President: I call on a representative of the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture to reply.

20 A representative of the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Cretney): Mr President, active conservation and biodiversity protection underpinned our designation as a UNESCO Biosphere Reserve. The core zones of the Reserve are mainly sites given a level of protection through the Wildlife Act 1990, or by ownership by bodies with a key focus on nature conservation. Statutory designations within the core zone include Areas of Special Scientific Interest, 25 National Nature Reserves and Marine Nature Reserves. Conservation work at these sites is carried out by DEFA, as well as a range of other partners such as the Manx Wildlife Trust and Manx National Heritage. There are also sites owned by private landowners, who may carry out conservation measures as part of a Management Agreement, for which payments may be made. With limited resources, conservation and monitoring of sites within the core zones varies. Some 30 sites are subject to active management and regular monitoring, while others may have relatively low levels of management and monitoring, and this is an area we will need to address as we deliver the Biodiversity Strategy. One of the most actively managed and well-monitored systems is the Ayres National Nature Reserve, which continues to receive a necessarily high level of wardening and monitoring from the 35 DEFA wildlife warden, who has a responsibility across our estate. A detailed management plan is in place along with a programme of monitoring to measure the effectiveness of conservation measures. Highlights from the Ayres include nest monitoring of little tern, Arctic tern, ‘ringer plover’, oystercatcher, curlew and lapwing, and monitoring of the endangered scarce crimson and gold moth and the heath beefly. 2 40 In the marine environment, Ramsey Marine Nature Reserve covers nearly 95 km and is zoned to protect key habitats including horse mussel reef, maerl beds and eelgrass meadows from major threats including some methods of fishing and other impacts. The Horse Mussel Zone is protected from all commercial fishing, and with the exception of a small amount of seasonal bait collection the Eelgrass Zone is completely protected as a no-take zone. The Marine Nature Reserve was 45 comprehensively surveyed when it was established in 2011 and there have been interim surveys by DEFA, Bangor University and divers from Seasearch Isle of Man, including the production of an updated habitat map in 2016. The site is also monitored on an annual basis to protect the sustainable use of the Fisheries Management Zone. An innovative survey and management regime, a partnership between the Manx Fish Producers' Organisation, DEFA and Bangor University delivers 50 increased scallop catches with a low carbon footprint and protection of horse mussel reefs and maerl beds, and this example is cited internationally. One of the main roles of UNESCO Biosphere Reserves is to act as test sites for innovative sustainable management, and Ramsey is a world- leading example of this. The conservation and monitoring work we carry out in the core zones will be compiled and will 55 contribute to the UNESCO periodic review process, which is carried out every 10 years. We will be required to demonstrate how we have increased capacity for sustainable resource management and improved ecosystem management. As part of this we will need to show how we have maintained the integrity of important habitats and species, and where we have improved conservation outcomes through good management and community engagement. 60 The President: Supplementary, Mr Henderson

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I thank the Hon. Member for his full and comprehensive Answer to my Question. I am very 65 pleased to hear the Department's commitment – and very pleased at the Department's commitment to the glen regeneration programme, as an aside, Eaghtyrane. However, I am specifically interested in the core zones designations which are critical to Biosphere Status and our status in particular.

______162 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

I would ask the Hon. Member: in going forward now and recognising the commitment he has just set forth in his Answer, are there plans for further conservation enhancing work to be progressed, as 70 we have had the Biodiversity Strategy in place since 2015? I would like to know if he could now or at a later date, circulate some information on future plans going forward recognising these critical aspects of our Biosphere status?

The President: Hon. Member. 75 Mr Cretney: Yes, can I first of all agree with the Hon. Member and thank him as a Member of Treasury for his and the Treasury Department’s support in terms of the million pounds over the next four years towards the glen enhancement. The glens are very special places (A Member: Hear, hear.) as far as I am concerned. The 80 workforce and the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture have been working – (Interjection) they have been pruned – and they have been working hard to keep up with storm damage, ash dieback and other factors. So I would like to thank his Department for that. In terms of his specific question about going forward there is a requirement for us to, on an ongoing basis, come up with more plans for the future. I would be very happy – either myself or the 85 Champion for the UNESCO Biosphere, which I think emphasises the importance which is placed on this by the Department – to come back and discuss with the Hon. Member, or with all Tynwald Members, progress in relation to that.

The President: Hon. Member, Mr Turner. 90 Mr Turner: Thank you, Mr President. Could the Member for DEFA explain: what is the annual budget for this work undertaken by the Department? Where has that budget come from? Has it come from within the Department's existing bid or is this new money that has been provided? And does the Department access any external 95 sources of funding for this work from outside bodies, whether that be conservation bodies or international organisations?

The President: Hon. Member.

100 Mr Cretney: I am not directly responsible for this area of the Department’s activity so I will have to come back to the Hon. Member in relation to where the budget actually all comes from. But obviously the principal budget comes from the Treasury Department.

The President: Mr Henderson. 105 Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Again, I would ask the Hon. Member, in relation to the core zones of our Biosphere, would he agree with me that there has been much talk of exploiting our Biosphere Status – our Biosphere – our natural environment, greater use for the public which I support but also for holidaymakers and 110 so on and people coming here to the Isle of Man? Fine, to a degree, as long as it is sustainable. But would he agree with me that actually our natural heritage is so special and unique we should not be just viewing it as a resource, we should be viewing it as something really special to be cared for?

115 The President: Mr Cretney.

Mr Cretney: I completely agree with the Hon. Member, but I would say that I believe since the granting of UNESCO Biosphere Status, this matter is being taken even more seriously by Government to the extent that the Chief Minister chairs a group, and as Hon. Members will be aware the Chief

______163 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

120 Minister’s time is very precious. So I think that indicates the importance that Government places in relation to this. And as I said earlier a Champion, to make sure that we make the most of the Biosphere Status whilst protecting the important features and making sure that they are not over- exploited, has been appointed. I think that indicates more … I know the Hon. Member, for example, has had years of interest and pushing for increased emphasis in regard to the natural heritage of the 125 Island. I think he should be pleased with the progress which is now being made.

The President: Mr Anderson.

Mr Anderson: Thank you, Mr President. 130 Just two points from me. Firstly, for the record, the hon. responder mentioned a Biosphere Champion: just for the Hansard record I wonder if he would just name that person? Secondly, in the list of birds that he referred to that are of special value on the Ayres, one I think was called the ‘ringer plumber’ – (Mr Cretney: Yes, it is – ) which was something I had needed this weekend. So can he confirm it was ‘ringer plumber’? (Laughter) 135 Mr Cretney: It says ‘ringer plover’, it is actually ‘ringed plover’. (Mr Henderson: Ringed plover.) So, you know … we have not got everything right yet! (Interjection) But in in relation to the Champion, the Champion is Miss Jo Overty who is well known to Hon. Members, I believe, and I think she will do a fantastic job. And I think we all have a job to do. I go all 140 round the Island walking, take photographs, put them online, and people all over the world take the opportunity to comment on that. We should all be good ambassadors for the Isle of Man and take the time to do that kind of thing. I also welcome – and I think it is a little bit overdue – but I certainly welcome the renewed commitment from the Department of Infrastructure in relation to the footpath infrastructure 145 around the Island which requires maintenance, and I believe they are working with private individuals. So I certainly welcome that as well.

A Member: Hear, hear.

1.2. Biosphere Isle of Man Core Zones – Importance; measuring biodiversity; sustainable activities

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Henderson, to ask a representative of the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture –

Whether his Department recognises the importance of the Biosphere Isle of Man Core Zones and the principle of using them to measure biodiversity; and what activity is sustainable within or near them?

150 The President: Question 2, Mr Henderson.

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I would like to ask the Hon. Member representing the Department of the Environment, whether his Department recognises the importance of the Biosphere Isle of Man Core Zones and the principle 155 of using them to measure biodiversity, and what activity is sustainable within or near them?

The President: Mr Cretney to reply.

______164 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

A representative of the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Cretney): Thank you, Mr President. 160 My Department takes seriously its responsibility for the designation and protection of sites of nature conservation importance. Our network of Areas of Special Scientific Interest, the National Nature Reserve, Marine Nature Reserve and the network of Fisheries’ closed areas, and marine conservation zones represent some of our most special places. It should also be acknowledged that many important sites remain unprotected, and our establishment of Areas of Special Scientific 165 Interest, Marine Nature Reserves and other designations is ongoing. Whilst site monitoring exists at a relatively low level on many sites and designating new sites remains of high importance, significant monitoring continues on key sites such as the Ayres National Nature Reserve, Ramsey Marine Nature Reserve and via Manx National Heritage on the Calf of Man. Under the Isle of Man Biodiversity Strategy, indicators of change are proposed and work is ongoing 170 to establish the best measures to use across the Island by the range of groups currently undertaking recording and monitoring work. The Strategy and the Biosphere can provide a structure through which these various groups and projects can co-ordinate and interact to the greater good. Activities which might be damaging within the core zones are controlled under the relevant legislation. On adjacent land, impacts may be considered through the filter of planning policy, which 175 incorporates standards of sustainable practice and is currently under review. It was important throughout the development of the UNESCO Biosphere Isle of Man project to emphasise that the Biosphere concept promotes innovative approaches to sustainable development. To assist with this it is important to identify what activities are appropriate in different Biosphere zones and this work was compiled in consultation with stakeholders and presented in the 180 nomination papers submitted to UNESCO. It has also been very important to engage with landowners and other groups. In the nomination papers, the Isle of Man Code of Practice for Landowners clarifies how landowners would voluntarily adopt sustainable practices throughout the Island. A good level of sustainable fisheries management is now in place in Manx waters, based on a high level of scientific data, and work is ongoing to 185 improve scientific understanding to inform management of all the key species. Within the Marine Buffer Zone – the 0-3 nautical miles area – 50% of the area is now protected from trawling and dredging and forms part of a network of Marine Protected Areas.

The President: Mr Henderson, supplementary. 190 Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Again I thank the Hon. Member for his very comprehensive Answer and the commitment demonstrated by the Department towards our natural heritage. I would ask the Hon. Member if he would take on board and deliver a message from the hon. 195 questioner back to the Department in relation to core zone areas and buffer zones which are integral for our Biosphere Status in that: should we not be giving our hedgerows throughout the Isle of Man some special status? Also should we not be looking at designating the land in our ownership, and maybe with individuals who might want to contribute the uplands, for a national park designation? Would he not agree with me the habitat that is within our uplands is of European and 200 world significance? And a final supplementary, Eaghtyrane: would he not agree that there is an insidious erosion to parts of our uplands through private landowners participating in what can only be described as weird and wonderful drainage systems that look like the backbone of a kipper, especially in the Druidale area where once blanket bog has now been drained dry and has had a significant local 205 impact on some very unique and special environmental habitat there, which has probably been lost forever? Would he agree to look at that and how we go forward with our Biodiversity Strategy in encouraging landowners to be more responsible?

______165 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

The President: Mr Cretney. 210 Mr Cretney: Yes, thank you, Mr President. In relation to the last point, I again agree completely. There is a problem though, inasmuch as two Government Departments have a different view about the work that has gone on there. The Government Department which I am responsible for does not think it has been done in an 215 appropriate manner, (A Member: Hear, hear.) and there is another Government Department which feels differently. In relation to the uplands generally, again I could not agree more. One of the most special moments I have had in my life was going up South Barrule and sitting at the top of South Barrule after I had walked, and hearing the birds. Then, all of a sudden, the birds’ sound went – there was no 220 birds sound; and all of a sudden a very special harrier – (Mr Henderson: Hen harrier) a hen harrier came, and that is why the birds had gone quiet! Obviously they knew that –

Mr Henderson: They were on the menu.

225 Mr Cretney: They potentially were on the menu. But it was just such a special moment. Also, with the Department, we have spent time on the uplands from time to time, and on one trip we saw I think over 10 individual hen harriers on just one afternoon out. I think we should be very proud of the fact and make sure that they are sustainable for the future. (Interjection) In relation to the hedgerows, there is special treatment for the hedgerows, you cannot cut 230 hedgerows at a certain time. I think hedgerows are again very important to people and especially birds. (Mr Henderson: Hear, hear.) And again we need to make sure that everybody understands that. Apart from anything else, when they are stripped at the wrong time they look terrible. (Mr Anderson: The birds?) Not the birds, the hedgerows! (Laughter) Mr Anderson has never lost his wit; he takes after his father! (Interjections) 235 Anyway, all of these features we should be very grateful for what we have here. We sometimes take the Isle of Man for granted, and the Hon. Member is quite correct in terms of emphasising the importance of our national heritage. One other group I forgot to mention earlier – and if the Hon. Member does not mind I will mention them now – is Beach Buddies and work that they do, which has been recognised by those 240 involved in the UNESCO Biosphere on an international level and just shows what can be done on a little Island to teach the world one or two things.

The President: Mr Henderson, do you have a supplementary?

245 Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Again I thank the Hon. Member for his strong, positive message that he is giving out here today, and that I am sure he will bring back to the Department. (Mr Cretney: I will.) Would he agree with me that yes, I join in him praising Bill Dale’s Beach Buddies without hesitation and it just shows you what can be done – not just to send our international message. But 250 would he agree that the Biosphere Champion and others need to take a leaf from Bill Dale’s book to put in similar operations, if I can call it that, towards enhancing our own conservation, which the public would be undoubtedly happy to engage with? (Interjection by Mr Corkish) Yes, exactly.

Mr Cretney: Yes, I think we all have a responsibility. In fact I am married to somebody who in the 255 last couple weeks has taken upon herself when she is out walking to try and keep fit, takes with her a plastic bag (Mr Anderson: Hear, hear.) and picks up – not unpleasant things – but she picks up plastics and bottles which are in the hedgerows we have just been speaking about. And if we could all perhaps consider doing that, it is not going to inconvenience your walk; in fact you are doing something special for the Island and we all have an obligation to try and do that.

______166 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

260 I will take the messages back that the Hon. Member has emphasised today and has emphasised over years.

The President: Mr Henderson.

265 Mr Henderson: No, that is fine, thank you, Eaghtyrane.

The President: Thank you, Hon. Members.

Order of the Day

2. Tribute to outgoing Members – Appreciation expressed to Mr Anderson, Mr Coleman, Mr Corkish, Mr Turner and Mrs Poole-Wilson

Mr Cretney to move:

That Council do express its appreciation of the parliamentary, governmental and other public service of Mr Anderson, Mr Coleman, Mr Corkish, Mr Turner, and Mrs Poole-Wilson who shortly vacate office as Members.

The President: Now we turn to the last Item on our Order Paper. It is one of those motions that do not appear very often, but course when they do they serve to remind us that we are all of us, 270 without exception, birds of passage – and in view of the last discussion I think that is very apt. (Laughter) So, birds of passage in this precious institution which is Tynwald and Legislative Council, it gives me pleasure to call on Mr Cretney to move.

275 Mr Cretney: Thank you, Mr President. I wish to move that Council do express its appreciation of the parliamentary, governmental and other public service of Mr Anderson, Mr Corkish, Mr Turner, Mr Coleman and Mrs Poole-Wilson who shortly vacate office as Members. I have known David Anderson most of my life. We were in secondary school together in the same class and have a shared interest in athletics, which David has throughout his life excelled in. He has 280 competed in the 1978 Commonwealth Games in Edmonton in the 400 m and the 400 m hurdles, holds a number of Island over-40s records in athletics across a range of activities, and has competed with great success on a world stage in Veteran Athletics as a world champion. So well done, David. (A Member: Hear, hear.) First elected in 2001, then 2006 and 2011, he followed his father, the late Ian Anderson, as 285 Member of the House of Keys for Glenfaba, and he shared his sense of humour and wit. I was a Member at the same time as Ian, and like David he has never lost his sense of caring for those less well off, motivated by his shared faith. We wish him and his wife, Jane, the very best for their future together, particularly as recent proud grandparents for the first time. Geoff Corkish, for those of us with a long interest in Tourism, was ‘Mr Steam Packet’ working for 290 the company between 1969 and 2006, latterly with great diplomacy and enthusiasm as Public Relations Officer – something they could do with just now, really. (A Member: Hear, hear.) A lifelong interest in music and charitable works, in particular for the Isle of Man Anti-Cancer Association, contributed towards his recognition by the Queen, being honoured with a Member of the British Empire Medal in 2007. He was elected to the House of Keys in 2006 and 2011, and he was elevated

______167 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

295 to the Legislative Council in 2013, and has been a vocal advocate of its importance as part of our parliamentary structure. An ideal appointment for Geoff was as Chairman of the Isle of Man Arts Council from 2011, and also the Department of Tourism and Leisure between 2006 and 2010; and special initiatives with Geoff at the helm were the Isle of Man Year of Culture and the Festival of Choirs, which has been an 300 outstanding success. His late mum and also his dad, who continues his interest in Geoff's career, were former constituents of mine and I know how proud they were of him, particularly as a Manxman participating in our National Day where they would always be present. We wish him and Muriel much happiness for their future together. 305 Juan Turner follows a line of successful, well-known and respected business people on our Island and it is fair to say he is no supporter of unnecessary bureaucracy. Upon election as a Member of Legislative Council in 2007, he performed his scrutiny role with enthusiasm; as Mr President noted in Tynwald, Juan’s preference is not for UK imported legislation but for laws best tailored for our Island's needs. 310 I was Minister for Trade and Industry when Juan was elected and he dedicated himself with enthusiasm to his delegated area of responsibility in the Training Division. A keen sports enthusiast, having more time now will no doubt allow Juan to dedicate his interest in this area, as well as spending time with Jess and stacking up some more air miles indulging his interest in travel. When Eddie Lowey retired, I nominated Mike Coleman as a Member of the Legislative Council in 315 2013. Members were aware of his good work with 11 years at the Isle of Man Water Authority, Chair and Convener of the National Health Service Independent Review Body for 13 years, as well as other public service work which followed an extensive career in the private sector in a number of jurisdictions, latterly at senior level within the finance sector on the Island. He also had the advantage of having a First Class Honours Degree in Law which set him in good stead for his work in 320 the Legislative Council – in fact when I was proposing him I think his unique selling point to Hon. Members in the House of Keys was that he did have that, which no other Member of Council at that stage did. Trusted by Ministers to take on high-level responsibility in a number of key areas within several Departments, he has been fully committed to his work both at Government and Legislative Council 325 level, at this desk studying, reading and scrutinising. Mike has been a colleague in the Manx Labour Party for a number of years and recently celebrated his 70th birthday. I am sure we all wish Mike and … Kath (Laughter and interjections) all the very best for their future together.

Mr Coleman: Can I add Jennifer, as well? 330 Mr Cretney: Sincere thanks to all retiring Members as they open the next chapter of their lives, from those of us that remain – and, more importantly, the people of the Isle of Man. Finally, Jane Poole-Wilson has been a Member of the Legislative Council since 2017 and is one of the 15 candidates nominated by Members of the House of Keys. Her experience enabled her to hit 335 the ground running and we thank her for her service to date, as she now once again faces the election hustings and her electorate. Mr President, I beg to move that Council do express its appreciation to the parliamentary, governmental and other public service of Mr Anderson, Mr Corkish, Mr Turner, Mr Coleman and Mrs Poole-Wilson, who will shortly vacate office as Members. 340 A Member: Hear, hear.

The President: Thank you, Mr Cretney. Mr Henderson.

______168 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

345 Mr Henderson: I second the motion, Eaghtyrane, with pleasure; and maybe just a few quick words from myself. I do not know when the last time Legislative Council faced a situation where there were five outgoing Members at once, at the same time; but I fully endorse as other Members will, the statements made by the Hon. Member, Mr Cretney. And I would just like to say to all the outgoing 350 candidates it has been a great pleasure of mine, and I am sure other colleagues, working with you all. To David Anderson, I would say a studious man who has set about his business here in Tynwald in a quiet professional way with a steely eye and a sense of humour that has been much appreciated. To Mike Coleman, I would say your company has been greatly appreciated in the Legislative 355 Council and certainly from a new Member to the Legislative Council, and for allowing me to interrupt your own work in your office on numerous occasions to ask questions – and Mike has been just happy to oblige and help, which I have sincerely appreciated. To Juan Turner, I would say good luck and best wishes for future endeavours. I first came across you, sir, at the Bar of Tynwald in our temporary Chambers when I think I moved an emergency 360 debate on Manx Radio. You spoke to the Bar with aplomb and you managed to strike Tynwald silent with your contribution, so you have the public speaking qualities and other qualities that I am sure will take you forward. To Geoff Corkish, I would say I have thoroughly enjoyed your company in the Legislative Council, your humour, your questioning and your general positiveness in going about our business has been 365 very welcome, sir; and I certainly wish you and Muriel all the best. And to Jane Poole-Wilson, I would say that I have thoroughly enjoyed your time on Legislative Council as the newest Member, for your enthusiasm and political critique and discussions of policies and procedures, Government initiatives and so on, and I really do wish you well in your election. I personally hope that you are back with us so we can continue our scrutiny and discussions, and 370 assist Tynwald in its deliberations. Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane.

The President: Thank you, Mr Henderson. Mr Crookall. 375 Mr Crookall: Thank you, Mr President. I would just like to say a fond farewell to all five Members and thank you for all your help and assistance, certainly over my time in here and in Tynwald since 2006 – certainly Mr Anderson, who I knew before then in the local authorities. 380 I would just like to wish them all well and their partners for the future, on whatever road they decide to take. Thank you.

The President: Thank you very much. 385 Lord Bishop.

The Lord Bishop: Thank you, Mr President. From my perspective I think I will not comment on individuals, although I could happily do that. But I think the important thing for me to say perhaps as one who joined the Legislative Council 390 recently, is that one instantly appreciates I think the atmospherics of a group and the ethos of a group, and the warmth of your welcome and your willingness to orientate me – not just to the processes of the Council and of Tynwald, but indeed to other aspects of Government – has been really very helpful and most gratefully received. So from me, my warmest thanks and my very best wishes for you in all things. 395 Thank you, Mr President.

______169 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

The President: Thank you, Lord Bishop. Mr Turner, do you wish to lead off?

Mr Turner: Yes, why not? Thank you, Mr President. 400 I will just pick up on something the Lord Bishop said about the whole ethos and the way Legislative Council operates. It is a very different animal to that of the other place, in the way that business is conducted. And it is still, I think, rather misunderstood outside this place as to just quite what Legislative Council does. I was asked a week or so ago what else happens, other than the couple of hours a week on three Tuesdays … what do you do? Which was quite an interesting 405 discussion. But I think there is still that tendency outside this place, there is a lack of understanding. It is not the fact that we conduct the business behind closed doors, we have a public gallery which as far as I am aware – well, certainly since my time – has always been open. We have had the advent of live- streaming and I think what was always very disappointing was the fact that the media were very 410 quick to criticise Legislative Council, but we can probably count on very few fingers and toes how many times the media will actually attend the public sessions. It is a great shame because of the value of what goes on and the detail that legislation is scrutinised in this place, and I hope that certainly the new Members when they come in manage to get straight into that work. I maybe expected there to be possibly 14 people in the public gallery this morning viewing the proceedings, 415 but that is not the case. Can I just say when I first came here, and I do not know whether it was something I said, but I seem to have seen off certainly two Clerks – well, I have not seen off the Second Clerk yet; I am on my third President; third Attorney General; and no other Members of the Council were here when I first arrived. So I hope it is nothing I have said! But joking aside, I have worked with some wonderful 420 colleagues in here over the years since I arrived in 2007 and I think that is the way, as the Lord Bishop says, which the Council does work as a team in going through the legislation – and some of that we have we picked at in quite great detail. So I hope that work continues I will not repeat everything I said last week because I thanked all the Ministers that I have worked with, including our mover, Mr Cretney, and as I said we had wonderful time at Trade and Industry. 425 So thank you to all colleagues and to you, Mr President, and all the former colleagues that I have had the pleasure of working with – and of course all the staff that support us in the Clerk of Tynwald's Office, who are the unsung heroes of the operation who keep it all going and glue it all together. So thank you and best wishes.

430 The President: Thank you, Mr Turner, it is interesting to note that in this setting you are technically the Father of the House, which seems extraordinary.

Mr Turner: I have got the grey hair! (Laughter)

435 The President: There we are, that is the way it goes, yes. Mr Corkish – never been short of word in the past!

Mr Corkish: Well, Mr President, it is incumbent upon me to thank … There is an old saying: ‘Parting is such sweet sorrow’, and certainly it has been sweet to hear the very kind comments of 440 Mr Cretney who moved the motion, and Mr Henderson and indeed the other Members – and soon to be former colleagues of mine – here in Legislative Council. I listened to some of the hustings debate yesterday afternoon for prospective new Members of Legislative Council and one of them, when asked about the role of Legislative Council and how it is perceived outside, said that she may think it was a good thing for us to walk up to people and say, 445 ‘Excuse me, I am a Legislative Councillor and you pay my wages’, and wear a plaque around your neck to say who you are. I do not really drink to that particular method but I certainly understand that the role of Legislative Council is misunderstood outside.

______170 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

I think that may be down to other Members of Government perhaps. But whatever happens here in Tynwald – whoever has been a Member of Tynwald as I have – whatever happens next, nothing 450 can replicate what has happened to me. And I am sure other Members would agree that what happens to you and the experience that comes with being a Member of, in my case, both the House of Keys and the Legislative Council … an absolute honour to be a part of this place. And thank you too, sir, for your mentoring of many Members, and to me when I was in House of Keys and you as Speaker and now as President. And again I echo the other remarks given to those 455 people who help us in our daily work – the Clerk, the Attorney General and the members of the Tynwald Admin Office who have all made my time here very enjoyable. So with that I thank the Members and you, sir.

The President: Thank you, Hon. Member. 460 Mr Anderson.

Mr Anderson: Thank you, Mr President. Always a man of few words, so I will try and keep my comments succinct this morning. (Interjections and laughter) 465 I would like to start by thanking those, especially Mr Cretney who has moved the motion this morning and his generous remarks. Of course I have been in Tynwald for quite a number of years and of course Mr Cretney has been in Tynwald a lot longer than me – in fact I think he was in short trousers when he came in! However, I have enjoyed my time in Tynwald, and as I have said before I just feel it is time for me to move on to new pastures. 470 Today is a day of mixed emotions for me. I have very much enjoyed the camaraderie we have had around this table. I have enjoyed my term in Government in various Government Departments and I very much wish this Council and Tynwald well for the future because you will be looking after us. However, as you rightly say, Mr President, we are birds of passage and we move on. I think I will close by saying – a lot of you will know that great man, Billy Graham, who died last 475 week and one of the comments he made some years ago was – ‘You might read in some years to come that David Anderson has died; do not believe a word of it, he was simply changing address’. (Laughter and interjections)

The President: Well said. 480 Mr Coleman.

Mr Coleman: Thank you, Mr President. I too would like to thank Mr Cretney for his very kind words. My experience within Legislative Council and the manner in which the Hon. Members operate, takes me back to John F. Kennedy 485 when he said, ‘ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do your country’. I think I have seen that in this Chamber with these Members. There is a lot of selflessness within the Legislative Council which perhaps does not purvey the whole of this building; and I have to say I have been very proud to work with the Members who are sat round this forum at the moment. I will be going on and I have been developing a hobby, it is 490 called ‘sloth’. I intend to pursue that until I move to another address. So thank you, Mr President; thank you, all Members, and I thank all of the support staff as I did previously. When I came in at the age of 65 to say it was an eye-opening experience, bearing in mind I had spent 30-odd years working around the periphery of Government – in fact I worked under 495 Mr Crookall when he was at the Water and Sewage Authority when we were going through a tumultuous time trying to move away from converting water by filtering it through sand to dissolved air flotation. So those are the sorts of things which we have been through. And the Water Authority finished its renovation programme, and I am very proud to have my name on the wall there as well, and that was a project which initially … and we have to go back to Mr Karran who was the Chairman

______171 C135 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 27th FEBRUARY 2018

500 of the Water Authority who put that original proposal through – and the Water Authority at the very end is the only subscriber to the sinking fund for the whole of the MUA. Anyway, thank you, Mr President. Thank you all.

Two Members: Hear, hear. 505 The President: Thank you. Mrs Poole-Wilson.

Mrs Poole-Wilson: Thank you, Mr President. 510 Again, just to echo what other Hon. Members who are leaving office tomorrow have said in terms of Mr Cretney and other Members’ very kind words. It has been a very short time for me on the Legislative Council but I have enjoyed it immensely and felt a real privilege to be able to do this role even for a very short time. I have learned an enormous amount and have enjoyed it so much, which is why I have put my name forward for re-election. 515 But I would like to thank all Hon. Members around this table for their help and assistance in helping me learn the ropes, and also to the Clerk of Tynwald's Office who provide immense support and help. Thank you very much.

520 The President: I thank all Hon. Members who have spoken, and perhaps if I could just add a word to thank Mr Cretney very much for summing up the views of us all. Some of us will remember Tynwald colleague Edgar Quine, MHK for Ayre, and it was he from whom I first heard the expression ‘the Fellowship of Tynwald’. He was very keen that whatever one's political differences, or the arguments that would take place in the Chamber, he was always very 525 quick and very keen that the fellowship and respect for each other as individuals should always be maintained. And while we are here for the serious purpose of public service for the people of the Island, if we can enjoy fellowship along the way that helps us to do our job better; and we will certainly miss your fellowship in this place and in the Chambers in the formal setting – and especially in the informal settings. 530 So on behalf of Council to the outgoing Members again, thank you for your public service it has been appreciated, and very best wishes for the future. I do not think calling a division on this will be necessary, Hon. Members (Laughter) so thank you all very much. That brings us to the end of this particular sitting of Legislative Council. The next sitting will take place on 13th March at 10.30 a.m. in this Chamber. 535 Thank you, Hon. Members.

The Council adjourned at 11.20 a.m.

______172 C135