1062 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 :Questions without Notice

Tuesday, 22 November 1983 Mr Long. I shall also point out to the Treas­ urer that the honourable member seeks an additional response with regard to the Grain The PRESIDENT (the Hon. F. S. Grim­ Elevators Board. wade) took the chair at 3.3 p.m. and read the prayer. However, that is the initiative ofMr Long and, if he chooses to alter the question to LOCAL GOVERNMENT (GENERAL that effect, it is appropriate for him to do AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2) so. I will inform the Treasurer of the matter raised and advise him that Mr Long is also This Bill was received from the Assembly seeking further information regarding the and, on the motion of the Hon. E. H. Grain Elevators Board. WALKER (Minister for Planning and En­ vironment), was read a first time. "STATE OF THE RIVERS" BOOKLET EQUAL OPPORTUNITY BILL The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ ern Province)-Did the Minister for Plan­ This Bill was received from the Assembly ning and Environment, in assisting his and, on the motion of the Hon. E. H. Ministerial colleagues, the Minister for WALKER (Minister for Planning and En­ Minerals and Energy and the Minister for vironment), was read a first time. Conservation, Forests and Lands, to launch the booklet State ofthe Rivers last Tuesday, lend his support to the concept of stream QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE management based on the total catchment, which is along the lines advocated for many years by Mr E. M. Jackson, commonly PUBLIC AUTHORITIES DIVIDEND known as ~'Watershed Jackson"? If so, will . PAYMENTS the Minister outline the extent of his sup­ The Hon. R. J. LONG (Gippsland Prov­ port for such a concept? Does he expect the ince)-I direct my question to the Minister task force to take those remarks into consid­ for Minerals and Energy, who represents the eration, and when does he expect the task Treasurer. I point out, firstly, that shortly force to complete its deliberations? this House will be called upon to debate the The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for Public Authorities (Dividends) Bill and, Planning and.Environment)-As Mr Bax­ secondly, that on 6 October 1982 I placed ter indicates, the Minister for Minerals and on notice a question, No. 161, seeking an Energy, the Minister for Conservation, For­ answer as to the State's equity in four public ests and Lands and I took part in a launch­ authorities. Does the Minister agree that that ing last week of the document to which he information could be compelling to have referred relating to the state of the rivers in before honourable members during the de­ Victoria. bate on the public authorities Bill? Will the The honourable member asks a question Minister endeavour to obtain that infor­ in regard to management of rivers by catch­ mation? I suggest he bring it up to date by ment. From a personal point of view, I fa­ including the Grain Elevators Board so that vour that intent, but in terms of the ho'nourable members will have proper in­ Government's response, the matter is being formation before them in that debate. dealt with, and the task force to which Mr The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for Baxter refers.will be reporting early in 1984. Minerals and Energy)-It would obviously Therefore, the response to the honourable be of some assistance to the debate to have member's question in detail will have to that information available so that honour­ wait until such time as the advice of the task able members may examine the State's eq­ force is received. uity interests in those respective corporations, given that even with the exist­ FIREWORKS ACCIDENT ing guidelines that is a fairly complex mat­ The Hon. M. J. ARNOLD (Templestowe ter. Province)-I ask this question of the Min­ I shall have no hesitation in taking that ister for Minerals and Energy, and I wish to matter up with the Treasurer on behalf of express my deepest sympathy to the widow Questions without Notice 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1063 and family of Glen Adams, who died in Governments over the mining and export­ tragic circumstances at Kinglake last Satur­ ing of uranium, can the Minister indicate to day night. Can the Minister provide the the House whether amendments to the Nu­ House with details of the tragic accident clear Activities (Prohibition) Bill are under that occurred during a fireworks display at active consideration, with a view to bring­ Kinglake on Saturday night? ing the State policies more into line with the The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for Federal policy? Minerals and Energy)-Government mem­ The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for bers and I am sure all honourable members, Minerals and Energy)-As honourable share regret at that accident. On behalf of members will recall, during the spring ses­ the Government, I extend my sympathy to sional period of 1982, the Government in­ the family of the deceased man, Glen Ad­ troduced into this House a Bill to prohibit ams. nuclear activity in this State. During the Honourable members will recall that autumn sessional period, Parliament, with shortly after the Government took office the the co-operation of the Opposition, and the Cabinet resolved to ban the sale of fire­ considered support of Mr Crozier, passed works through shops and to restrict fire­ that Bill through the Legislative Council by works display to properly-run public 34 votes to 4 votes, and we thank Mr Cro­ displays conducted by suitably-trained per­ zier for his support in making Victoria a sons. nuclear-free State. The display, at a fund-raising function at The Hon. D. G. Crozier-Nuclear-free the Kinglake Primary School oval, was an nonsense! authorized display. A permit to conduct the The PRESIDENT (the Hon. F. S. Grim­ display had been Issued on 10 November to wade )-Order! Mr Crozier has already asked the dead man, Glen Adams. Mr Adams was his question without notice and the Minis­ the actual operator handling and igniting ter has responded. the fireworks, and was the holder of a per­ The Hon. D. R. WHITE-It is also clear mit to use explosives under the Explosives that Victoria is fortunate in not having any Act. commercial uranium mines or .potential The display was to be a small one, con­ uranium activity. sisting of a small number of 3 inch and 5 inch aerial shells and two rockets. Aerial BIOLOGICAL CONTROL OF shells are fired from mortars, which consist PATERSON'S CURSE of heavy cardboard tubes or steel tubes, de­ pending on the size of the shell. The Hon. D. M. EV ANS (North Eastern Province)-I refer the Minister of Agricul­ At this stage, it appears that press reports ture to the alarmin~ spread of Paterson's that Mr Adams was struck in the neck by a curse throughout VIctoria and the discus­ shell leaving a mortar are correct. However, sions that were held at the conference of firm information from our investigating of­ Ministers of agriculture in Port Moresby in ficers on just what happened is awaited. August this year concerning possible le$is­ A detailed report, and a statement to as­ lative changes to allow for the introductIOn sist the coroner, will be prepared as soon as of a biological control vector. Has the Min­ possible. In the meantime, as soon as the ister made progress with his colleagues from facts are clear, any implications for future other States towards the necessary amend­ firework displays of a comparable kind will ments to allow the vital biological control be analysed, and if any additional safety of this devastating weed to be introduced? measures appear necessary they will be put The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ in hand. culture)-Progress is being made in discus­ MINING AND EXPORTING OF sions on the question of biological control URANIUM for Paterson's curse. As the honourable member is aware, many implications need The Hon. D. G. CROZIER (Western to be taken into account. I assure honoura­ Province)-I ask the Minister for Minerals ble members that everything possible will and Energy, in the light of the increasing be done to expedite the introduction of bi­ conflict between the Federal and Victorian ological control if the respective Govern- 1064 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Questions without Notice ments are convinced that that is a safe and ing helipad. Although the present site is wise measure. unacceptable to the Federal Minister for Transport and Construction, it will con­ INTOXICATION AS A LEGAL tinue to be used until a new site is available. DEFENCE I cannot condone the actions of persons The Hon. J. E. KIRNER (Melbourne who last week demonstrated by chopping West Province)-Can the Attorney-Gen­ down trees in a park in Sorrento. However, eral inform the House whether he proposes I make no further comment on that matter. to act on the law relating to intoxication The Government, the Minister for Police and criminal responsibility? and Emergency Services, the Minister for The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ Conservation, Forests and Lands and I have General)-The Government will await the moved, during the past few days, to ensure report of the Law Reform Commissioner that a suitable site is made available nearby. on this issue. The commission yesterday Discussions have occurred with local gov­ published an up-market issues paper on the ernment, and I hope to be able to inform question of intoxication and criminal re­ Mr Reid before the end of this week that sponsibility. As honourable members are the matter is in hand. aware, the issue concerns many people since the ruling in O'Connors case that intoxica­ PUBLICATION, "CROPPING '83" tion, in so far as it obliterates intent, is a The Hon. D. E. HENSHAW (Geelong defence-if I can use that expression-be­ Province)-Is the Minister of Agriculture cause no intent exists if the court is satisfied aware of a publication entitled Cropping '83; beyond reasonable doubt that there was no' intent by reason of intoxication. if so, will he comment on that publication? By this publication, the commission is The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ attempting to attract as much public re­ culture)-Naturally, I am aware of the pub­ sponse as possible, and will hold a public lication Cropping '83 published this week. seminar at its offices on 27 January 1984. It will be distributed to representatives of the cropping industry within the next few It is notable that the format of this issues weeks. The publication gives a comprehen­ paper-the first of its kind to be presented sive account of all Government services to in such a readable and attractive form-is the cropping industry in Victoria as well as designed to provoke as much public re­ details of new research into crops, extension sponse as possible and to be susceptible of marketing and legislation. As field crops comprehension by lay persons as well as by earn about one fifth of the income produced lawyers. by Victorian agriculture, it is appropriate SOUTHERN PENINSULA that the department should report in detail AMBULANCE SERVICE HELIPAD on Government services to that significant industry. I recommend that all interested The Hon. N. B. REID (Bendigo Prov­ members read the publication. ince)-Although the Opposition does not The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern condone the actions of certain persons in Province)-On a point of order, the ques­ removing trees from the Southern Penin­ tion indicates that pre-publication copies of sula Ambulance Service helipad site, has the document have been available to mem­ the Minister for Planning and Environment bers ofthe Australian Labor Party, but have reached agreement with the Minister for not been made available to members of the Police and Emergency Services and the National Party and the Opposition. If that Minister for Conservation, Forests and is so, I seek an explanation from the Minis­ Lands on a site that is acceptable to the Shire of Hinders and the Southern Penin­ ter. sula rescue squad? The PRESIDENT (the Hon. F. S. Grim­ The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for wade)-Order! There is no point of order. Planning and Environment)-The issue is YARRA RIVER ENVIRONMENT difficult. However, agreement is imminent on a site for the Southern Peninsula Ambul­ The Hon. M. A. BIRRELL (East Yarra ance Service helipad very close to the exist- Province)-My question to the Minister of Questions without Notice 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1065

Water Supply also concerns the responsibil­ and, when it is, I will send a copy to the ity of the Minister for Planning and Envi­ honourable member. ronment. Is the Minister of Water Supply aware of comments made by the Chairman ALPINE AREA SPECIAL of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board INVESTIGATION of Works, Mr Marginson, during a radio interview last week indicating that the real The Hon. B. T. PULLEN (Melbourne problem the board faces in its proposals to Province)-My question to the Minister for improve the Yarra River environment is a Planning and Environment relates to the lack of money? If so, will the Government release of the final recommendations result­ commit more funds to this important proj­ ing from the alpine area special investiga­ ect and publish a schedule of dates on which tion. In view of the importance, of the each proposed river improvement project recommendations in the report and its far­ will be completed? reaching significance, will he indicate what process the Government will use to deal The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister of with the report and what time-table will be Water Supply)-It is correct that the State followed? In view of the public interest, can Government is involved in the lower Yarra he ensure that copies of the report will be River project. I understand that the Depart­ readily available free of charge or at a nom­ ment of Management and Budget recently inal cost? contributed $500 000 towards the improve­ ment of the sites along the lower Yarra River The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for and that work is proceeding in that area Planning and Environment)-The Land with the support and co-operation of the Conservation Council has recently made its Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of final recommendations to the Government Works. on the alpine area. Last week I had the chance of reading quickly those recommen­ MOUSE PLAGUE dations. The report will be tabled and has been publicly released. The Hon. B. P. DUNN (North Western Province)-My question to the Minister for The Land Conservation Council has rec­ Conservation, Forests and Lands relates ommended, among other things, the addi­ more to vermin control than conservation. tion of 275000 hectares to the existing Is the Minister aware that the Common­ alpine national park areas making a total of wealth Scientific and Industrial Research about 598 000 hectares. In line with Gov­ Organization considers that Australia may ernment policy that addition would create experience a mouse plague in 1984-85? In a continuous alpine national park which will view of the experiences of Victoria in the join with the Kosciusko National Park in previous mouse plagues of 1979-80 and New South Wales and, in the view of the 1969-70, what strategies and control meas­ Government, would be a great national as­ ures are being considered and reviewed by set. No decisions have yet been made by the the department so that Victoria will be pre­ Government on the recommendations. pared for a mouse plague if the predictions of the Commonwealth Scientific and Indus­ I will welcome further submissions over trial Research Organization are correct? the next couple of months, into early next year, and I will be consulting with various The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister interested parties before making recom­ for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-A mendations to Cabinet in due course. No scientific party was set up in co-operation decision has yet been made in relation to with my department to deal with mouse those recommendations. plagues following the problem several years ago. Funding was set aside for that research Honourable members, or members of the and the party has been examining the ecol­ public who are interested, can obtain a copy ogy of mice in that area to enable it to pre­ of the report free of charge from the Gov­ dict mouse plagues some time before they ernment Printer at 41 St. Andrews Place, occur. I hope a report will be received from East Melbourne, or from the Victorian the working group on progress it has made Government Information Centre, 1st Hoor, and what action it intends to take. I shall 356 Collins Street, Melbourne. Written re­ inquire when the report will be available quests should include $1.50 to cover pos- 1066 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Sessional Orders tage. Copies of the report are available only ment Business on Wednesdays be suspended until the from the places mentioned and not from end of December and that until the end of December, the Land Conservation Council. unless otherwise ordered by the House, new business may be taken at any hour and Government Business WATER SUPPLY TO BENDIGO AREA shall take precedence of all other business. The Hon. J. W. S. RADFORD (Bendigo I have discussed the matter with the Lead­ Province)-Will the Minister of Water ers of the other two parties and indicated to Supply indicate to the House his time-table them that what has become the normal courtesy will prevail concernin~ matters that for the handing over of responsibility for private members or members In opposition water reticulation in the Bendigo urban area parties may wish to present to the House on from the State Rivers and Water Supply a Wednesday morning. Commission to the soon to be created Ben­ digo Water Board? Further is there union I made it clear that we would be willing opposition to the board taking over those to accept the fact that, for two hours on a services from the State Rivers and Water Wednesday morning, Opposition business Supply Commission? or private members~ business might pre­ vail. However, this should be done by ar­ The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister of rangement with me before that time. I Water Supply)-The matter of the role of believe the arrangements will suit all hon­ the Bendigo Sewerage Authority and its fu­ ourable members and we can proceed with ture, and the responsibility for the provi­ the business of the House over the next two sion of water for Bendigo, has been a matter weeks or over the remainder of the session the Government resolved some time ago. with expediency. To remind the honourable member-I am sure he would be aware of the publicity that The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern has occurred in respect of this matter over Province)-The Opposition realizes that the a period of eighteen months-the Govern­ time of the sessional period has arrived ment decided some time ago that the re­ where the motion is appropriate. I have a sponsibility for the provision of reticulated private assurance from the Leader of the water services to the people of Bendigo Government that an opportunity will be af­ w~uld remain the responsibility of the State forded to me tomorrow to introduce a pri­ RIvers and Water Supply Commission. vate member~s Bill and the Leader of the Consistent with the renaming of authorities National Party either has or will approach throughout the State, the Bendigo Sewerage the Leader of the Government about a short Authority and/or its successor body would motion tomorrow. On that basis, the Op­ be solely responsible for the continuation of position is happy to support the motion. the provision of sewerage. That view was The Hon. B. P. DUNN (North Western arrived at after extensive consultation, not Province)-The National Party supports the only with community groups but also with motion basically on the ground and under­ representative organizations in the area in­ standing that it will still have an opportu­ cluding the trade union organizations, and nity of presenting private members' business the proposal met with very little opposition, by arrangement with the Leader of the Gov­ apart from that expressed by some of the ernment. That is the normal tradition with representatives of the City of Bendigo. Mr the business of the House at this time and, Radford would be aware that the Govern­ on that basis, the National Party supports ment did reach a view on that matter and the motion. that view remains the policy of the Govern­ The motion was agreed to. ment. SESSIONAL ORDERS PETITIONS The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for Industrial relations and workers Planning and Environment)-By leave, I compensation Acts move: The Hon. G. A. S. BUTLER (Thomas­ That so much of the Sessional Orders as provides town Province) presented a petition from that no new business be taken after 10 p.m. and that certain citizens of Victoria praying that the General Business shall take precedence of Govern- proposed amendments to the Industrial Re- Papers 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1067 lations Act 1979 and Workers Compensa­ The Bill was brought in and read a first tion Act 1958 be enacted. He stated that the time. petition was respectfully worded, in order, and bore 72 signatures. LEGAL PROFESSION PRACTICE (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL The Hon. J. L. DIXON (Boronia Prov­ ince) presented a petition from certain citi­ The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ zens of Victoria praying that the proposed General), by leave, moved for leave to bring amendments to the Industrial Relations Act in a Bill to amend the Legal Profession 1979 and Workers Compensation Act 1958 Practice Act 1958 and the Summary Off­ be enacted. She· stated that the petition was ences Act 1966 with respect to moneys col­ respectfully worded, in order, and bore 840 lected under those Acts and for other signatures. purposes. Hospital services in Heathcote The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read a first The Hon. F. J. GRANTER (Central time. Highlands Province) presented a petition from certain citizens of Victoria praying that ETHNIC AFFAIRS POLICIES the Government rejects proposals to down­ grade hospital services in Heathcote. He The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ stated that the petition was respectfully culture)-By leave, I move: worded, in order, and bore 2088 signatures. That there be laid before this House a copy of the It was ordered that the petitions be laid report of a review group to the Minister for Ethnic on the table. Affairs entitled •• Access and Equity: The development of Victoria's ethnic affairs poJicies". SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION The motion was agreed to. (DEREGULATION) BILL The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern culture) presented the report in compliance Province), by leave, moved for leave to bring with the foregoing order. in a Bill to make provision for adequate, effective and co-ordinated processes in the I t was ordered that the report be laid on preparation and making of subordinate leg­ the table. islation which enable consultation, evalua­ On the motion of the Hon. HADOON tion and review of subordinate legislation, STOREY (East Yarra Province), it was or­ to reduce the volume of subordinate legis­ dered that the report be taken into consid­ lation, to ensure that there is adequate scru­ eration on the next day of meeting. tiny of subordinate legislation, to amend the Subordinate Legislation Act 1962 and PAPERS the Parliamentary Committees Act 1968 and The following papers, pursuant to the di­ for other purposes. rections of several Acts of Parliament, were The motion was agreed to. laid on the table by the Clerk: The Bill was brought in and read a first Land Conservation Council-Final recommendations time. to the Minister of the Special Investigation into the Alpine Area. MELBOURNE CRICKET GROUND BILL State Electricity Commission-Report for the year 1982-83. The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister State Rivers and Water Supply Commission-Report for Conservation, Forests and Lands), by for the year 1982-83 (two papers) leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill Town and Country Planning Act 1961: relating to a ground known as the Mel­ Bendigo-City of Bendigo Planning Scheme 1962- bourne Cricket Ground and to the trustees Amendment No. 37. of the Melbourne Cricket Ground and to Buninyong-Shire of Buninyong Planning Scheme­ amend the Melbourne Cricket Ground Act Amendment No. 15. 1933. Lake Glenmaggie Planning Scheme-Amendment The motion was agreed to. No. 4. 1068 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 National Parks (Amendment) Bill

Maryborough Planning Scheme 1962-Amendment The decades of the 1960s and 1970s have No. 9. seen an increasing public awareness of the Moe-City of Moe Planning Scheme 1966- importance of preserving this State's signif­ Amendment No. 71. 1982. icant natural and historic features. I believe Myrtleford-Shire of Myrtleford (Myrtleford Town­ there is now generally within the commu­ ship) Planning Scheme I 966-Amendment No. 9. nity. a sense of concern and shared respon­ Pakenham-Shire of Pakenham Planning Scheme, sibtlity for the protection of our cultural and Part I-Amendment No. 16. natural heritage. Portland-Town of Portland Planning Scheme This community concern has been re­ 1957-Amendment No. 41,1982. flected in the nineteen National Parks Acts Sherbrooke-Shire of Sherbrooke Planning Scheme which have passed through the Parliament 1979 (Rural Areas)-Amendment No. 5, 1982. since 1956. These Acts have increased the Traralgon-City of Traralgon Planning Scheme area of parks in Victoria from 127 000 hec­ I 957-Amendment No. 40. tares to 1 115 000 hectares, including areas Transport Act I 983-Schedule of 21 November 1983 provided for by legislation, but still await­ of assets of the State Transport Authority to be trans­ ing proclamation. ferred to the Metropolitan Transit Authority. This Bill, and those that have preceded it, On the motion of the Hon. HADDON have all been directed to the establishment STOREY (East Yarra Province), it was or­ of a strong legislative framework for our dered that the recommendations, reports national park system. This Government is and the schedule be taken into considera­ firmly committed to maintaining and ex­ tion on the next day of meeting. tending this park system. Indeed, the Bill will further increase the area reserved in our NATIONAL PARKS (AMENDMENT) park system by some 186 000 hectares, to a BILL total of more than 1· 3 million hectares. The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister Each of the six proposed new parks is a for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-I valuable addition in its own right. To­ move: gether, they represent an extremely signifi­ That this Bill be now read a second time. cant contribution to the protection of this State's natural and cultural heritage. The This important Bill seeks to achieve three most important of these new parks is the things: Firstly, and most importantly, it will 169000 hectares Grampians National Park, establish six new parks; secondly, it will al­ to be declared from 1 July 1984. low for additions to fifteen existing parks; and thirdly, it makes provision for neces­ The Labor Party went to the last election sary minor changes to the National Parks with a commitment to create, upon attain­ Act. ing Government, a significant national park in the Grampians. The Bill establishes such The six new parks which will be created a park, thus fulfilling that important elec­ as a result of the passage of this Bill are: tion promise. I am sure there are very few, Grampians National Park; Kara Kara if any, members of this House who have State Park; Kooyoora State Park; Langhi not visited the Grampians. All those who Ghiran State Park; Moondarra State Park; have could not help but be impressed by and Tyers Regional Park. this ru~ed and magnificent area of western Victonan. All of these new parks arise from recom­ mendations of the Land Conservation The combination of spectacular scenery, Council. The council's well-established and diverse and significant flora and fauna, and widely-accepted procedures have ensured unique archaeological sites have long caused that the full range of public opinion has the Grampians to be regarded throughout been canvassed and considered. In framing Australia as an area of the highest conser­ this proposed legislation, the Government vation significance. has taken into account the variety of views The Grampians contain about one-third expressed by interested individuals and or­ of the State's native flora. Of the 1000 spe­ ganizations. cies of plants recorded there, 20 are en- National Parks (Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1069

demic to the area and 185 species are either The classification of the area as a national rare or of disjunct distribution. park does not restrict the use of necessary fire-suppression measures. In the event of Large areas of the Grampians are re­ fire within or adjoining the park, decisions nowned for their brilliant spring displays of as to the most appropriate course of action wildflowers. These colourful and extensive required to suppress the fire and the most displays have few rivals anywhere in the appropriate equipment to be used remain State. In fact, the Grampians wildflowers the responsibility of the Forests Commis­ are acclaimed throughout Australia and each sion alone. In these circumstances, the ad­ year attract many thousands of visitors to ditional resources of the National Parks the area from both within Victoria and in­ Service will be made available to the com­ terstate. mission. The Grampians' diversity of habitats­ Fire prevention measures such as main­ streams, heaths, forests, swamps, lakes and tenance of fire access tra'cks and protective rocky outcrops-support a wide range of burning will also continue within the park. native fauna. Species of particular signifi­ The particular measures to be taken will be cance include the rare brush-tailed rock decided jointly by the Forests Commission wallaby, which has its only known western and the National Parks Service. Victorian colony in the Grampians, and the relatively large breeding population of the I again emphasize that fire prevention internationally rare peregrine falcon. measures such as fuel-reduction burning and maintenance of access tracks will continue In Victoria, rock paintings of Aboriginal in the national park. The National Parks origin are quite rare; indeed they have been Service and the Forests Commis§ion at located in only a handful of areas. Of the present are examining all aspects ofHre pro­ presently known sites in the State, 80 per tection in the Grampians and I wish to as­ cent are found in the Grampians. sure all honourable members that fire protection will not in any way be adversely Although there is much more I could say affected by declaration of the national park. about the Grampians National Park, I be­ In fact, it could well be enhanced by the fact lieve this brief description serves to indicate that it is expected that there will be addi­ the importance of this area. In fact, I con­ tional trained personnel in the area when sider the Grampians National Park to be in the national park is fully staffed. the top rank of Australia's national parks. Many of the staff and some of the re­ Because of its unique attributes, the sources required for the new national park Grampians have long been a very popular will be transferred from the Forests Com­ tourist destination, attracting hundreds of mission to the National Parks Service. Of­ thousands of visitors each year. The tourist ficers of the service and the commission are industry based on the Grampians is very detailing the requirements of the two agen­ important to the region. cies and an appropriate transfer of person­ nel and other resources will be made, with I believe sensitive development and pro­ additional resources being provided where motion of the Grampians as a national park necessary. Such a transfer will be greatly will increase the number of visitors to the facilitated by the new Department of Con­ area. Further, I believe this can be achieved servation, Forests and Lands. without detriment to the area's important environmental features. In line with Government policy on na­ tional parks, timber harvesting of three areas I am aware that the Grampians are ex­ in the Victoria Valley containing red gum tremely fire prone and that many landhold­ forest is to be phased out within three years ers have expressed concern at the possibility of declaration. In another eleven areas tim­ of fire spreading from the ranges into ad­ ber harvesting is to be phased out within joining farmlands. I reassure those land­ ten years. Some of these areas contain du­ holders and this House that all necessary rable species, such as red gum and yellow fire prevention and fire suppression meas­ gum, and others contain forests of stringy­ ures will continue to be undertaken in the bark and gum. The phase-out will achieve Grampians. Government policy for national parks while 1070 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 National Parks (Amendment) Bill allowing sufficient time for adjustments to The Langhi Ghiran State Park is situated be made in the timber industry. on the Western Highway, 15 kilometres east of Ararat. It covers approximately 2700 In concluding my remarks on the Gram­ hectares and includes Mount Langhi Ghiran pians National Park I express my apprecia­ and Mount Gorrin, both of which are very tion of the efforts of all those organizations prominent features in the landscape. and the many individuals who have contri­ The rocky mountain slopes are covered buted to the management, protection and by stunted stringybarks, which contrast development of the Grampians. In particu­ sharply with the veteran red and yellow lar, I pay tribute to the Forests Commis­ gums found at the entrance to the park. The sion, which has been responsible for most park is in a relatively undisturbed state, with of the area for many years. I congratulate few tracks and a long time absence of tim­ the commission and its officers for a job ber extraction and grazing. well done. The Moondarra State Park, of almost The other five new parks, while much 6500 hectares, is situated to the north of smaller than the Grampians National Park, Moe in central Gippsland, on the popular are nonetheless, important additions to the tourist route to the Baw Baw National Park park system. and the historic Walhalla township. The park contains excellent examples of heathy The Kara Kara State Park, of approxi­ woodlands with several important plant mately 3840 hectares, is located south of St communities. Arnaud near the small township of Stuart The park also includes an area which may Mill. It extends from the steep southern be required by the State Electricity Com­ slopes(of the St Arnaud Range to the gently mission for the Andersons Creek overbur­ undulating area around the Upper Tedding­ den dump. Provision is made in the Bill for ton Reservoir. The reservoir provides a fo­ excision of this area if future public inquir­ cal point for informal recreation and a ies indicate that this is necessary. management plan for this section of the park will be prepared in consultation with the The Tyers Regional Park is situated just north of the Latrobe Valley and will pro­ Shire of Kara Kara. vide recreational opportunities for this large Unlike most forests in north central Vic­ industrial populatIon. A major feature of toria, the forests in this park have never the 1800 hectares park is the Tyers River, been extensively cut for timber. The forests' which has carved a spectacular and mean­ relatively undisturbed nature enhance this dering gorge in the area's sedimentary rocks. park's conservation values. A series of sandy beaches and high van­ tage points, accessed by car and along a The Kooyoora State Park is located west river-side walking track, provide for many of Inglewood and covers around 3520 hec­ recreation activities, including picnicking, tares. Dominating features of the park are fishing and bushwalking. the granite tors, rocksheets and overhangs that comprise Mount Kooyoora and Mel­ As well as these six new parks, the Bill ville Caves. also provides for additions to fifteen exist­ ing parks and a name change for another. The caves area, which was named after For the most part these additions are rela­ the infamous bushranger Captain Melville, tively small and in the main have resulted is a very popular picnicking and camping from Government purchase of land. site. The untracked Kooyoora Range is a I do not intend to $0 through all of these favourite walking area, which provides ex­ additions as the detatls are included in the tensive views over the surrounding coun­ clause notes attached to the Bill. However, tryside. two of the more significant additions do The park supports good examples of the warrant brief mention. region's distinctive box-ironbark forests and The Bogong National Park will be ex­ also contains a number of rare plant spe­ tended by 250 hectares to include impor­ cies. The name, Kooyoora State Park, was tant breeding habitat of the rare mountain selected on the advice of the Place Names pigmy possum on the western side of Mount Committee. Higginbotham. National Parks (Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1071

The mountain Pigmy Possum, Burramys of honourable members. I commend the Bill Parvus, is the only Australian mammal to the House. which is restricted to alpine and sub-alpine On the motion of the Hon. R. .1. regions. It is regarded as an endangered spe­ KNOWLES (Ballarat Province), the debate cies. was adjourned. Addition of this important habitat area The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat to the national park is a further indication Province)-I move: of the Government's commitment to the protection of the State's native fauna. The That the debate be now adjourned until Tuesday National Parks Service in conjunction with next. the Fisheries and Wildlife Division will for­ I suggest that the debate be adjourned for mulate a management plan for this area, seven days because of the significance of the which will ensure the long-term viability of proposed legislation. The Opposition needs the possum population. time to circulate the Bill to interested groups An area of 400 hectares will be added to and to obtain a response from those w.oups. the Gippsland Lakes Coastal Park. Most of The Opposition may not be in a pOSItion to the land is a gift from a syndicate headed by proceed with debate on the Bill next week. Mr J. C. Dahlsen. The gift represents a great The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister community initiative. The donors are to be for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-I commended for their generosity in giving remind Mr Knowles that all aspects of the the land to the people of Victoria. Bill have been the subject of a great deal of Increases in other parks provided for in public discussion. The Bill is the result of the Bill range from 1 hectare to 300 hec­ recommendations of the Land Conserva­ tares. tion Council. It is imperative that the Bill As well as creating and adding to parks, be passed during this sessional period. the Bill makes several minor amendments Therefore, I ask Mr Knowles to ensure that to the National Parks Act itself. In general debate on the Bill will resume sooner than these amendments update references and Tuesday next. provisions to accord with present-day cir­ The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN cumstances. I do not intend going through (Western Province)-The matter has been each of these amendments as they are all in the hands of the Government for as long detailed in the clause notes. as the report of the Land Conservation Council has been available, which is many However, some of the amendments in­ months. The explanatory second-reading clude: A scheme for waiving legal proceed­ speech has just been made and the sessional ings on the payment of a small fee for minor period is to conclude next week. offences in national parks; provisions for fossicking in certain specified parks; and in­ Although the report of the Land Conser­ creased penalties for offences-some pen­ vation Council has been available for some alties have not been increased since 1959. time, the method in which the proclama­ tion of national parks is made is dependent Mr President, the Bill will put into effect upon the degree of consultation with the some major conservation initiatives of the local community, with a view, for example, Government. In some cases it will also to the establishment of a park management complete actions initiated by the former plan and a fire plan. Those are matters that Government. This is an important Bill have to be carefully considered by the local which deserves, and I trust will gain, sup­ community. That cannot occur until the port from all honourable members. Opposition knows exactly what are the pro­ For the assistance of honourable mem­ posals of the Government. bers, the clause notes are incorporated with The Minister for Conservation, Forests the Bill print. Copies of the park boundary and Lands has indicated that the proposed plans have been lodged in the central plan national parks will not come into operation office of my department at 2 Treasury Place, until 1 July next year. The next sessional where they may be inspected and ordered period will commence in February next by the public. A set has been supplied to the year. All that my colleague, Mr Knowles, is Parliamentary Library for the information trying to ensure is that the local community 1072 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 National Parks (Amendment) Bill has adequate opportunity to discuss the is­ tional Party supports the motion moved by sue. If it is not possible to obtain that input Mr Knowles, that debate be delayed for at prior to the Christmas recess, the Opposi­ least seven days with the possibility of the tion will give every possible co-operation further requirement that resumption of the immediately the House resumes next ses­ debate be left until early in the autumn ses­ sional period. sional period, if the House rises, as in­ The last thing the Minister would want is tended, on 2 December. for the local community to have the feeling The Hon. J. V. C. GUEST (Monash that it has been railroaded without the op­ Province)-Under the former Govern­ portunity for proper consultation. I urge the ment, the House was able and willing to Minister to be reasonable in relation to the work according to a pattern which was not request that has been made. If the Opposi­ dominated by the influence of school holi­ tion cannot obtain the responses of the days. Under the former Government the community in time, the Minister should House used to work and was glad to work willingly provide a further extension of the up until a few days before Christmas. One adjournment period requested by the Op­ of the options put forward by the Govern­ position. ment is for a new pattern of school holidays The Hon. D. M. EVANS (North Eastern and school terms. It may be that the sittings Province)-The National Party also be­ of the House will also accord with the new lieves it is necessary that full community pattern. The Government proposes that the consultation take place because of the im­ House should rise at the end of next week. portance of the Bill. It further submits to Therefore, the Government should have re­ the Minister for Conservation, Forests and gard to the perfectly reasonable case put by Lands and to the House that, before that Mr Chamberlain and Mr Evans and accede consultation can take place, the actual terms to the adjourment requested. and conditions spelt out in the Bill must be The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister known. for Conservation, Forests and Lands) (By The Land Conservation Council report is leave)-I am extremely disappointed at the a document of considerable persuasive attitude of both the Opposition and the Na­ force, but it is not legislation and, until pro­ tional Party concernin~ this matter. In the posed legislation appears, there can be no run-up to the last election the Government judgment made on what the intentions made a firm commitment to designating this might be of either the Government or the national park. It made a further commit­ Parliament. ment to declaring the establishment of the Until the Bill "hit the deck" in the Parlia­ park from 1 July 1984. ment a few minutes ago, the matters with. I have already pointed out to honourable which it deals and the methods which it members that the Government has gone intends to use to deal with the creation of through a very important consultative national parks were not known. However, I process and has taken into account the views thank the Minister for providing me with a of those persons affected. What the mem­ confidential copy of the Bill at the end of bers of the Opposition and the National last week. However, that confidential copy Party fail to understand is that the Govern­ was available only to a restricted group of ment intends to begin operating the park as honourable members and it was certainly a national park on 1 July 1984, and in that not available to the general public. run-up it will have to establish management The recommendations in the Land Con­ plans that will be available to the public for servation Council report, on which the sec­ consultation and public display. It is impor­ ond-reading notes assure the House that the tant during that run-up that people are Bill itself is based, were brought down a trained and that the management staff are considerable time ago and there has been able to manage the park as a national park no great rush by the Government to bring from 1 July 1984. the Bill before the Parliament. It would, I find the obstructionist attitude of the therefore, appear reasonable to again pro­ members opposite extremely disappointing vide time for proper and full community because I had envisaged that they would consultation on the matter before proceed­ have supported the Bill and that they would ing with the Bill. For that reason, the Na- have been prepared to debate the matter National Parks (Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1073 this week. I had also hoped that the matter launched an attack on the Opposition be­ would have been finalized next week, but cause of what seemed to be a very reasona­ an adjournment has been sought and it may ble suggestion on my part. He made great not be possible to conclude the debate by play about the Government's commitment then. to the people prior to the election. If it were The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ as important as that, why has the Govern­ ern Province)-I am not prepared to listen ment left it for eighteen months to intro­ to a Minister attempting to blame the Na­ duced the proposed legislation? Some tional Party and the Opposition for the priority the Government has to that com­ Government's ineptitude concerning this mitment! Bill. If the Government went to the people I believe that my motion and my request on the promise of passing legislation that were perfectly reasonable and I am abso­ would create a national park for the Gram­ lutely horrified that the Minister has ac­ pians, it is the fault of the Government that cused the Opposition of being obstructionist the Bill was not introduced in time, instead on that motion. of being introduced in the dying stages of The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for this sessional period. Planning and Environment)-I want to There is concern among country people make a few comments of an ameliorative whether there is a need for vast State parks. kind. I understand the feelings ofMr Baxter I am annoyed that the Minister can intro­ and Mr Knowles, but I should indicate that duce a complex Bill today, proposing all the Minister for Conservation, Forests and these additions to national parks-at least Lands was only indicating disappointment. twenty of them-and expect the Opposi­ I do not believe members opposite should tion and the National Party to debate the take that to mean he was highly critical of matter next week. He even has the gall to Mr Knowles when he asked tor a one-week suggest it could be discussed next week. adjournment. Honourable members who None of the Government members rep­ have already spoken, and those who have resents electorates surrounding the Gram­ not, would understand that certain matters pians-the area is represented by members become dear to the heart of a Minister, and of the Opposition and the National Party­ the creation of the national park-and I can yet the Minister seeks to deny the members say this with some personal feeling-is a of the Opposition and the National Party personal issue. I had carriage of this matter the opportunity of consulting the people and I know the Minister for Conservation, represented by them in those areas. I give Forests and Lands feels precisely the same the Minister notice that the National Party way as I did about national parks. He feels will not take that sort of behaviour from strongly about this matter because there had him. been some debate on the issue prior to the Bill being introduced. The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat Province) (By leave)-I want to respond to Nevertheless, the points made by Mr the accusation by the Minister that the Op­ Baxter and Mr Knowles are quite proper. I position is being obstructionist. The Oppo­ can understand that they do not wish to be sition has asked for a week's adjournment pushed and they have every reason to con­ and indicated that it may not be possible to sult with those who advise them-- consult those affected by the proposal within The Hon. P. D. Block-And the people seven days. Members of the Opposition and affected by the proposed legislation. the National Party have to send the Bill and The Hon. E. H. W ALKER-Yes, and the the second-reading notes out to affected people affected. There are some occasions groups to give them the opportunity of con­ in this House where it is possible by agree­ sidering matters and responding. The Min­ ment, prior consultation or negotiation, for ister has the gall to accuse the Opposition certain pieces of legislation to be dealt with of being obstructionist. In my view, that is rapidly or expeditiously. In this case, I think totally unacceptable. there should be the normal one-week ad­ I believe that I was being fair and reason­ journment and I do not believe the House able in moving that the debate be adjourned should be debating the matter and then for a week and indicating that more time passing it on to the other House next week. may be needed. Suddenly the Minister The Bill is a new measure that has been 1074 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Films (Amendment) Bill introduced into the House by the Minister, monwealth will be utilized for both the clas­ and it is very dear to his heart. I believe the sification of video material by the censor motion for a one-week adjournment is right and appeals from decisions of the censor to and proper, and that the Minister will ac­ the Commonwealth Films Board of Review ceptit. at no cost to Victoria. The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN The second purpose is implemented by (Western Province) (By leave)-I raise a amending the Police Offences Act 1958 to point of clarification. The motion was include video material in the definition of moved on the understanding that if the de­ "articles" in Part V of that Act relating to sired response and feedback were not ob­ obscene and indecent publications. tained, Mr Knowles would seek a further adjournment. That is not an unusual re­ VOLUNTARY CLASSIFICATION quest and, as long as it is understood, the SCHEME Opposition will be happy to proceed. As mentioned, the Films Act already pro­ The motion was agreed to, and the debate vides for the classification of films by the was adjourned until Tuesday, November 29. Commonwealth Censor. The Bill extends this arrangement to the classification of vi­ FILMS (AMENDMENT) BILL deos by amending the definition of "film" The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ to cover video film. It is the view of the General)-I move: Government that although adults should be free to view what they wish in the privacy That this Bill be now read a second time. of their homes, the consumer should be The Bill has two major purposes. The first given some guidance as to what he or she is is to establish a voluntary classification buying or hiring and should be protected scheme for video material. Representations from exposure to unsolicited material that have been received both from the public he or she finds offensive. The Government and commercial interests by the Common­ also believes limits should be placed on what wealth and various State Governments for can be openly displayed or sold to children. a uniform classification scheme for video material. The development of such a scheme The Bill provides for the same classifica­ covering films, video material and publica­ tion standards for video material as cur­ tions was agreed in principle at a meeting rently apply to films exhibited in theatres, on 13 July 1983 of Commonwealth and namely, "G", "NRC", "M" and "R"-but State Ministers responsible for censorship. with a further category for stronger material which may not be exhibited in a theatre or In recent times, there has been a signifi­ place where an admission fee is charged. cant growth in the volume of video material Child pornography, material promoting ter­ available for private purchase and hire. rorism and extreme material dealing with These articles are not currently subject to sex, drug abuse or addiction, crime, cruelty, any classification and it is the view of the or violence is to be refused classification Government that the introduction of a clas­ altogether. sification scheme is highly desirable. The second purpose is to render unlawful the As agreed at the meeting of Common­ making, exhibition, sale or hire of obscene wealth and State Ministers on 13 July 1983, video material. the classification scheme is a voluntary one. The first purpose is implemented by It will not be mandatory for video material amending the Films Act to provide for the for sale or hire to be submitted for classifi­ classification of video material by the Com­ cation unless it is to be exhibited in a thea­ monwealth Censor, who currently classifies tre or place where an admission fee is non-video films for exhibition in theatres in charged. A voluntary scheme was agreed to Victoria. The Commonwealth Censor car­ by the Commonwealth and State Ministe~ ries out this function on behalf of Victoria responsible for censorship as they were of by way of an arrangement pursuant to sec­ the view that a mandatory system would be tion 7 of the Act. It is envisaged that a sim­ too cumbersome to administer, and would ilar arrangement will be made in respect of be unnecessary as much of the material cur­ video material. The resources of the Com- rently for sale or hire is unobjectionable and State Employees Retirement Benefits Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1075

does not need to be subject to point of sale indecent publications should be amended restrictions. to ensure that video material is covered. The Bill provides that if an item is classi­ The Bill further provides that the classi­ fied, it must comply with the point of sale fication of an item by the censor is a defence restrictions which are appropriate to the to a prosecution under the obscenity provi­ given classification. The Bill provides that sions of the Police Offences Act. material classified "'For Restricted Exhibi­ tion" may not be sold or hired to any per­ It is envisaged that this scheme will be son under eighteen years of age and must complemented in the near future by a new comprehensive classification scheme for ~ear the prescribed markings. These restric­ tIOns also apply to material classified "'Not ~u~lications which will.repl~ce the existing for Exhibition" together with a requirement lImited scheme of classificatIOn of publica­ that such material may be displayed only in tions by the State Classification of Publica­ a rest~cted films area, be delivered only on tions Board. This will result in a the dIrect request of a person and in an comprehensive scheme of classification for opaQ.ue package and be advertised only in a films, video material and publications. The restncted films area or by way of printed or legislation will be based upon model legis­ written material delivered to a person at his lation prepared by the Commonwealth At­ direct and unsolicited request. torney-General's Department, which will also serve as a basis for similar legislation The Bill provides that it is an offence to in other States. breach the point of sale restrictions in re­ spec~ of classified material. It also provides In conclusion, the Bill represents an im­ that It IS an offence to breach these restric­ portant step towards a comprehensive and tions in respect of unclassified material uniform approach to the classification of which would, if classified, be given a "Re­ films, video material and publications. I stricted Exhibition" or "Not for Exhibi­ commend this Bill to the House. tion" classification. On the motion of the Hon. J. V. C. PROVISIONS RELATING TO GUEST (Monash Province), the debate was OBSCENE VIDEO MATERIAL adjourned. Concern has been expressed by members It was ordered that the debate be ad­ of the police and of the general community journed until the next day of meetirig. that the current provisions in the Police Offences Act are not sufficiently broad to STATE EMPLOYEES RETIREMENT cover video material. That concern arose BENEFITS (AMENDMENT) BILL largely because ofa decision of the Supreme For the Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for Court in John William Bell v. Leigh Fran­ Minerals and Energy), the Hon. J. H. Ken­ cis Murphy. That case involved proceedings nan (Attomey-General)-I move: to review a decision of a Magistrates Court relating to charges laid under the obscene That this Bill be now read a second time. publications provisions of the Police Off­ eJ?ces Act in. respect to allegedly obscene T.his Bill amends the State Employees Video matenal. The Supreme Court dis­ Retirement Benefits Act 1979. missed th~ applications for orders absolute The SERB Fund is a comparatively new the principal reason for the decision being ~ scheme which provides retirement benefits procedural defect relating to the non-tend­ for various types of employees in the public ering of the video cassette in question. sector including, for example, part-time and However, this decision has led to doubts intermittent employees. The innovative about whether videos in fact fall within the measures which were adopted in the scheme definition of articles in that Act. have inevitably led to some problems Because of that concern and having re­ emerging with its administration. The Gov­ gard to the rapid technological change which ernment has had consultation with the var­ is occurring in the video field, the Govern­ ious groups that are involved and the ment has decided that the provisions in the objective of this Bill is to remedy those as­ Police Offences Act relating to obscene and pects which have been giving concern. 1076 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 State Employees Retirement Benefits Bill

The amendments do not involve an in­ tions waived in these circumstances and for crease in cost of any great amount. They are benefits to be reduced accordingly. Where a basically machinery amendments and do member elects to pay his or her arrears the not pre-empt matters being considered by board will be required to consider the mem­ the Parliamentary committee of inquiry into ber's circumstances before determining the superannuation. method of payment. One matter that has been of particular An earlier amendment to the Act enabled concern is that some members of this the non-teaching employees of two of our scheme have been penalized because of the technical and further education colleges failure of their employing department or which were incorporated companies to join authority to advise the SERB Board of their the SERB scheme. I refer to the Royal Mel­ eligibility for membership or to commence bourne Institute of Technology and to the requisite deductions from their pay, Swinburne Ltd. More recently the non­ which have therefore accumulated in ar­ teaching employees of the remaIning T AFE rears. These amendments will allow such colleges, with the exception of the School of members to pay these arrears, and receive Mines and Industries Ballarat Ltd, joined full benefits, or to elect not to pay all or any the scheme. of these arrears, and forgo an equivalent In the case of the Ballarat institution it part of the benefits. too is an incorporated company and this The Bill also provides for: Bill provides for the inclusion in the scheme of non-teaching employees of that college. Employees of one of our T AFE colleges, namely the School of Mines and Industries Members of the SERB scheme are not Ballarat Limited, to join the fund; subject to the provisions of the Superan­ nuation Benefits Act 1977, which was similar retrenchment benefits to mem­ amended in 1982 to provide for the pay­ bers of the scheme as are available to mem­ ment of special retrenchment benefits to bers of other schemes under the members of superannuation schemes which Superannuation Benefits Act; are subject to that Act. This Bill enables the expansion of the circumstances under members of the SERB scheme to have a which a member can convert part of his similar choice of benefits if they are re­ pension to a lump sum; trenched. Pensioners who retire at 65 years of age the maintenance of children's pensions in after having completed at least 30 years' "real" terms; contributory service may at present convert protection of the interests of a member's part of their fortnightly pension to a lump dependants by preventing the assignment sum, under conditions approved by the of benefits to another party; Treasurer, so that pensioners may become eligible for Commonwealth social security use of suitable indices in place of two par­ benefits. This Bill corrects a previous over­ ticular indices referred to in the principal sight by extending these provisions to pen­ Act which are no longer published. sioners who retire at any time after reaching The opportunity has also been taken to 60 years of age irrespective of the length of introduce amendments to clarify a number service that they have completed. of sections of the principal Act, and to cor­ The Bill also provides for full updating of rect errors and omissions that have been children's pensions. These pensions are discovered. currently provided for at the base rate of $650 per annum, and are then increased A number of members have been re­ according to movements in the consumer quired to pay arrears of contributions fol­ price index. This Bill provides for the ba~e lowing the failure of their employers to rate to be also increased in this way. deduct contributions when they first be­ came due. This has caused financial hard­ A member's dependants may be deprived ship and resentment in many instances. The of benefits under the scheme if the member Government has decided that members may assigns the benefits to another party or con­ choose to have their arrears of contribu- verts a pension entitlement to a lump sum. Employment Agents Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1077

The Government considers that the mem­ deprive or delay its benefits under all the ber's dependants should be protected in circumstances and in the light of the report these circumstances, and the Bill makes by the Economic and Budget Review Com­ provision for such protection. This provi­ mittee. Therefore, the Opposition does not sion is also designed to protect the member oppose the Bill. by preventing him from assigning away his The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ interests in the fund. ern Province)-The National Party is in a The rate at which members contribute to similar position in view of the deliberations the fund and the adjusted final salary on of the committee and, as Mr Hunt has al­ which benefits are based are determined by ready said, it would be churlish to delay the two measures, the "minimum wage" and Bill. The National Party does not oppose it. the "Average Weekly Earnings (Melbourne) The Hon. M. J. SANOON (Chelsea Index". The Bill provides for new measures Province)-I also do not wish to delay the due to the Australian Conciliation and Ar­ passage of the Bill other than to make a few bitration Commission changing its practice comments. I have received representations of making regular wages awards and to the from non-teaching members of the Vic­ Commonwealth Statistician not publishing torian Colleges Staff Association. Those an average weekly earnings index for Mel­ members were hitherto denied access to the bourne. SERB scheme. I am delighted that the The remaining provisions are of a tech­ Government has taken cognizance of the nical nature for the purpose of clarification. fact that those people have been ignored I commend the Bill to the House. and have not been able to participate in the The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern scheme. I am delighted that the Govern­ Province)-It seems strange that the Gov­ ment has, as a matter of equity, decided to ernment is continuing to produce public widen the scheme to incorporate non-teach­ sector superannuation Bills and to present ing staff and also to indicate to some of the them to Parliament at the very time when colleges that have not previously been in­ the Economic and Budget Review Commit­ cluded in the scheme that they will now be tee is examining a complete range of issues so included. I commend the Bill to the relating to public sector superannuation House on that basis. with a view to developing a coherent and The motion was agreed to. cohesive over-all approach. However, the The Bill was read a second time. Opposition has drawn attention to that fact on other occasions; it drew attention to The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for that principle when the Bill was before an­ Minerals and Energy)-By leave, I move: other place and as a result the measure was That this Bill be now read a third time. referred to the Economic and Budget Re­ view Committee for urgent report. I thank all honourable members for their Although it is clear from the report that support of the measure. the committee regarded the continual and The motion was agreed to, and the Bill almost continuous catching-up process as was read a third time. somewhat undesirable in the circumstan­ ces, nevertheless it gave its apparently re­ EMPLOYMENT AGENTS BILL luctant blessing to the proposals introduced in the Bill. The committee did so on the 'The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ basis that the Bill contained nothing· new General)-I move: and would bring benefits under the State Employees Retirement Benefits Act, the That this Bill be now read a second time. principal Act, into line with benefits en­ The purpose of the Bill is to provide ma­ joyed in other public sector superannuation chinery for the licensing of employment schemes and will provide some of the safe­ agencies and to control misleading advertis­ guards which also exist in those other ing and other malpractice relating to em­ schemes. ployment placement. The Bill is consistent That being the case, it would be churlish with the Cain Government's general posi­ of the Opposition to delay the Bill and to tion on protection of workers' rights and 1078 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Employment Agents Bill will assist to eradicate exploitation of the The Bill will not cover the licensing of unemployed. nursing employment agents as the Victo­ rian Nursing Council is currently responsi­ Over the years, complaints have been ble for its registration under the Nurses Act consistently received by Government de­ 1958. Because of the specialized natute of partments, consumer groups and employee employment within that profession, it is ad­ organizations about misleading or false ad­ vertising of employment opportunities and ministratively preferable that the NUrsing of various forms of malpractice by private Council retains the registration functi~n. employment agents. Reports by groups such However, the nursing employment agen­ as Jobwatch, Royal Australian Nursing cies will be subject to all the other regula­ Federation, Actors Equity, the Musicians tory provisions and penalties of the Bill. Union of Australia and others, confirm this. It will initially be the responsibility of the Statistical information shows that Vic­ Director of Consumer Affairs and eventu­ toria received more complaints of this na­ ally of the licensing tribunal to develop a ture than any other State in 1981-82. The comprehensive code of practice as a prereq­ complaints referred to the advertising of uisite for the issuing of licences. Officers of non-existent jobs, unsubstantiated terms the Ministry of Consumer Affairs have al­ and exaggerated prospects of employment. ready commenced working on this project. Other complaints referred to charging the Clauses 13 to 20 deal with an applicant's job seeker agent's fees and referrals to posi­ right to appeal against a refusal to grant or tions for which an applicant had little or no renew a licence. The appeal is to be directed training. to a tribunal consisting for the time being of Honourable members will recollect re­ the President of the Market Court. These cent publicity given to the operations of an clauses also provide for the appellant to ap­ agency called Job Shop. That agency charged pear in front of the tribunal, which will have people $50 for a promise to find employ­ powers to summon any person to give evi­ ment. In fact, Job Shop then forwarded to dence and produce documents, administer the applicant a compilation of employment an oath and perform other requirements to advertisements which are freely available in ensure that the rights of an appellant are the newspapers. Such exploitation of the appropriately safeguarded. unemployed cannot be tolerated. Existing Clause 21 makes it an offence for an em­ legislation does not provide for adequate ployment agent to charge a fee from the job controls. seeker, with the exemption of theatrical Part I of the Bill deals with the usual leg­ agents. Theatrical agents have a longstand­ islative requirements for definitions of terms ing tradition of representing the performer, used in the Bill, and lists exemptions. Part and consequently it was decided that the II of the Bill establishes a licensing author­ charging of fees should be allowed in order ity and clause 5 requires the licensing of all to reflect this special relationship. employment agents. The powers of the li­ censing authority established under the Bill Clause 22 provides that theatrical agents will be vested in the Director of Consumer will be able to collect only prescribed fees Affairs. from the performer, and the regulation­ Honourable members will know that a making powers in clause 32 have been review of the Ministry of Consumer Affairs drafted accordingly. was commissioned towards the end of 1982 Representations were made by the Vic­ with the objective of improving the organi­ torian Division of Actors Equity of Aus­ zational effectiveness of the Ministry. One tralia that an agency in Melbourne recently recommendation of the review was the es­ closed its business and absconded with the tablishment of a licensing tribunal within wages ofa number of clients. The wages had the Ministry of Consumer Affairs to take been sent by employers to the agency to be responsibility for all trading licensing mat­ passed on to the employees. Clause 25 has ters in Victoria. Once such a licensing tri­ been designed to control such practices by bunal is established, the powers conferred requiring that properly constituted trust ac­ on the director under this Bill will be trans­ counts are kept, with constraints enforce­ ferred to the licensing tribunal. able for improper use offunds. Employment Agents Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1079

Other clauses in Part 11 of the Bill deal person can be employed to sell goods on a with the administrative machinery oflicen­ door-to-door basis for a wage or commis­ sing, such as requirements relating to appli­ sion, or the person can be sold a franchise cations, objections to granting of a licence, with a right to sell the goods in a certain and other matters, such as form, duration, district. display and revocation of licences. Penal­ Consequently, considering the employ­ ties are also provided to ensure compliance ment element inherent in any franchise with the licensing requirements. scheme, it is essential to impose at least Part III of the Bill deals with the amend­ some controls over franchising concur­ ments to the Market Court Act, the Small rently with controls over private employ­ Claims Tribunals Act, the Consumer ment agents and offers of employment. Affairs Act and the Ministry of Consumer The over-all difficulty in recommending Affairs Act. any appropriate controls over franchisins is The Market Court has the power to im­ the large variety of business schemes whIch pose injunctions to stop unfair trading prac­ fall under the franchise label. In addition, tices. Orders of the Market Court can franchising is quite a legitimate and socially itemize specific trading malpractices which useful method of conducting business, and must not be continued. In addition, the di­ controls intended for the few may unduly rector has power to enter into a deed of restrict the many legitimate schemes cur­ assurance with a trader to the effect that the rently in operation. trader will refrain from engaging in unfair The Consumer Affairs Act prohibits the conduct. most objectionable franchise scheme from The Bill in clauses 33 and 34 extends the operation in Victoria namely, pyramid sell­ powers of the M-arket Court and the direc­ ing. However, this prohibition does not af­ tor under a deed of assurance to cover un­ fect other franchise schemes. fair conduct by employment agents. This To remedy the situation, clause 37 will provision will allow for more flexibility in make it an offence to make misleading the regulation of this industry as orders can statements about the profitability or risk of single out unethical traders without impos­ . such business undertakings, or to recruit ing unnecessary restrictions on those who . people to participate in them by misrepre­ conduct their business in an acceptable senting prospects of success. manner. By operation of clauses 23, 35 and 37, a Clause 35 will allow the small claims tri­ person will be able to make a claim for any bunals to adjudicate on matters relating to loss or damage in either the small claims employment agents and offers of employ­ tribunals or a court of law arising out of ment. In addition, the powers currently dealings with an employment agent, or out conferred on the director by the Consumer ofa contravention of provisions of the Bill. Affairs Act to attempt to settle disputes be­ tween consumers and traders will be made Clauses 38 and 39 refer to consequential available to job seekers by clause 36 of the amendments of the relevant Act and hon­ Bill. ourable members are referred to the notes on clauses for further information. Part lA of the Consumer Affairs Act will also be extended to cover employment mat­ The Bill combines effectively a licensing ters. This part allows the director to insti­ system with provisions for conciliation, ad­ tute or defend proceedings on behalf of judication and the imposition of injunc­ consumers in a court oflaw. tions and penalties for unethical and improper practices. Under the provision of Clause 37 extends the misleading adver­ the Bill the licensin$, body will not be acting tising provisions of the Consumer Affairs in isolation, but wIll be supported by the Act to cover any published misrepresenta­ resources and experience of the Ministry of tions relating to offers of employment. Consumer Affairs and will rely on the Min­ It is a strong probability that improving istry for any disciplinary action. Individual controls over private employment agents job seekers, in turn, will be able to call on and offers of employment will increase the the full range of remedial legislative provi­ incidence of what are generally termed as sions currently available to consumers. I bogus franchise schemes. For example, a commend the Bill to the House. 1080 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Housing Bill

On the motion of the Hon. H. G. BAY- while at the same time furthering the over­ LqR (Boronia Province), the debate was all Government policy of reducing the adjourned. number of statutory authorities in Victaria. It was ordered that the debate be ad- It is. p~oposed that both the Housing journed until the next day of meeting. CommIssIon and the Home Finance trust HOUSING BILL be abolis~e~, and that in their place should be the MInIstry of Housing as a Mini$terial For th~ Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister depart~ent. All housing policy would be for Planmng and Environment), the Hon. J. determIned by the Minister within the con­ H. Kennan (Attorney-General)-I move: stra~nts of Government housing policy, and carned out by officers of the Ministry under That this Bill be now read a second time. the Minister's direction. ~hrou~ this Bill, existing housing legisla- Howeve~, the own~rshi'p, t.nanagement, tlOn WIll be completely rewritten. The exist- and financing of housIng IS hIghly special­ ~ng Ho.using Act is some 150 pages in length, ized, and differs from those aspects of other mc~udlng s~hedule~. Many of the housing departments and instrumentalities. Given polIcy-makmg and Implementation powers that the Ministry is to perform these func­ ar~ ~t present ve~ted in the Housing Com- ti

In Part V, General, clauses 33 and 34 al­ The Hon. J. V. C. GUEST (Monash low the director to enter into an agreement Province)-Mr Deputy President, I draw with a person or body for any of the pur­ your attention to the state of the House. poses of the Act. Clause 35 allows the direc­ A quorum was formed. tor to delegate functions to a Ministry officer or to a person or body. Division 2 of that The sitting was suspended at 4.50 p.m. part is concerned with enforcement and until 5.2 p.m. other miscellaneous provisions. COURTS (POWERS OF Part VI, Rental Housing Co-operatives, INVESTMENT) BILL allows rental housing co-operatives to be constituted and registered. It provides for The debate (adjourned from November certain procedures to be followed by rental 16) on the motion of the Hon. J. H. Kennan housing co-operatives and for model rules (Attorney-General) for the second reading to be prescribed by regulation. It establishes of this Bill was resumed. a registrar of rental housing co-operatives. The Hon. HADOON STOREY (East Yarra Province)-The Bill is intended to In Part VII, Standards of Habitation, introduce more order and practical effi­ clause 63 empowers the Governor in Coun­ ciency into the administration of certain cil to make regulations specifying the stand­ trust funds held by the three levels of courts ards of habitation for all houses. Clause 64 in this State-the Supreme Court, the empowers the permanent head of the Min­ County Court, and the Magistrates Court. istry of Housing to declare a house to be In each of those systems of courts, moneys sub-standard. Clause 66 allows the perma­ are paid into trust funds for various pur­ nent head, having due regard to the hard­ poses and, in each case, those trust funds ship which may be caused to the owner, to are administered in somewhat different direct an owner to make a house comply ways. They are in different accounts; some­ with regulations or to demolish it. The other times interest is earned on them, sometimes clauses are related to enforcement provi­ it is not; interest that is earned is paid into sions. These provisions on standards of consolidated revenue, although there is no habitation are substantially transferred from statutory authority for that. the Building Control Act. The types of accounts of which I am In conclusion, I want to say that I believe speaking are established for moneys paid this proposed legislation marks in a very into the Supreme Court under order 22, rule tangible way the end of an era of low prior­ 1, and order 65 of the Rules of Court, mon­ ity for housing assistance in Victoria and eys as security for the release on bail of ac­ substantial mismanagement of public hous­ cused persons and moneys paid into various ing. It signals the beginning of a new era for accounts of the Sheriff. Similar types of housing in Victoria. It is the most signifi­ funds are paid into accounts in the County cant reform in housing legislation in this Court and the Magistrates Court. State since 1937. I commend the Bill to the The Bill provides that all of those moneys House. may be invested in certain ways-on de­ On the motion of the Hon. N. B. Reid, posit with the State Bank of Victoria; on for the Hon. D. K. HA YWARD (Monash deposit in the Cash Management Account; Province), the debate was adjourned. in any manner in which trust funds may be It was ordered that the debate be ad­ invested under the Trustee Act, or on de­ journed until later this day. posit in a fund prescribed by regulations under the Act. I am not sure what the inten­ PAY-ROLL TAX (AMENDMENT) BILL tion is concerning the power to prescribe (No. 2) areas of investment by regulation. The Government may have in mind some other This Bill was received from the Assembly fund such as the State Development Ac­ and, on the motion of the Hon. R. A. Mack­ count whereby moneys that are invested in enzie (Minister for Conservation, Forests public authorities can be utilized by the State and Lands), for the Hon. D. R. WHITE for various purpOses. No indication has been (Minister for Minerals and Energy), was read given of the purpose of that provision, but a first time. it seems sensible in any event because other Magistrates Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1083

proper types of investment may in future That this Bill be now read a third time. become available for the investment of these moneys. In each case, the moneys so depos­ In so moving, I thank members of the Op­ ited will earn interest which is to be paid position and the National Party for their into the Consolidated Fund. support of the Bill. The end result will be a uniform method The motion was agreed to, and the Bill of administration of these moneys and one was read a third time. that will allow reasonable investments with the interest being paid into the Consoli­ MAGISTRATES (SUMMARY PROCEEDINGS) (WARRANTS OF dated Fund on a statutory basis. DISTRESS) BILL I am informed by the Attorney-General that the Bill does not relate to moneys paid The debate (adjourned from November into court for infants who have recovered 16) on the motion of the Hon. J. H. Kennan judgments which are invested for them un­ (Attorney'-General) for the second reading til such time as they reach their majority or of this BIll was resumed. the court otherwise orders the payment out The Hon. HADOON STOREY (East of those moneys. Yarra Province)-This Bill carries to a log­ In all the circumstances, the Opposition ical conclusion a process that arose during supports the Bill. the life of the former Government designed The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ to improve the system of executing war­ ern Province)-The National Party sup­ rants of distress in the Magistrates Courts. ports the measure, which goes some way For many years the job of executing war­ towards clarifying the investment of funds rants of distress was left to members of the held by courts. It is important that moneys Police Force, which was an impediment to in the hands of the courts should be in­ their carrying out other duties. I imagine vested only in gilt-edged funds, and four also that it was an embarrassment for them areas of investment are set out-the State to be forced to go to a person's premises, Bank of Victoria, the Cash Management seize the property and have it sold to satisfy Account, trust funds authorized by the judgment debts. Trustee Act and on deposit as prescribed by Some years ago the concept of civil bail­ regulations under the Act. Those four areas iffs was introduced, firstly in the metropoli­ of investment give the required degree of tan area, for the execution of warrants of security. distress in Magistrates Courts, and later in The Bill also confirms the well-estab­ certain country areas. Later again the lished practice that interest on those depos­ administration of the work of civil bailiffs its should be paid to the Consolidated Fund. was handed to the sheriff, who is the person I should have thought that an argument responsible for executing warrants of dis­ could be mounted that the interest should tress or their equivalent, which are judg­ go to the fund which generates legal aid, ment debts, in the Supreme Court. The Bill notwithstanding my long-held views on le­ will provide a statutory basis for control of gal aid and the abuses to which it is subject. the recovery ofjudgment debts by warrants Nevertheless, those earnings of income will of distress in the Magistrates Courts and by go directly into the Consolidated Fund for the sheriff in the Supreme Court. Hereafter use by the Government of the day. the sheriff will have responsibility for and As Mr Storey rightly noted, the Bill does be in charge of the work done by the bailiffs not deal with funds held in trust by courts in the Magistrates Courts, as well as by his on behalf of minors or others, the interest own officers in the Supreme Court. on which accrues to the person entitled to The Bill also equates. the procedures in the capital. The National Party supports the both courts so that the same procedure will Bill. apply and the same sorts of forms can be The motion was agreed to. used. The whole operation will generally be The Bill was read a second time. carried out in a more efficient manner. The Bill provides a number of technical amend­ The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ ments that need to be made to various stat­ General)-By leave, I move: utes to give effect to this procedure. It will 1084 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Magistrates Bill lead to the adoption of a more efficient sys­ Party on this issue. As an example, a recent tem in the execution of warrants of distress ground swell indicated that the Govern­ in the Magistrates Courts. The bailiff per­ ment should repeal the Imprisonment of forms the work in the County Court as a Fraudulent Debtors Act. I am not saying separate unit. No doubt a case exists for that the Act should not be amended, re­ examining whether the County Court bail­ viewed and brought into line with current iffs' activities should also be brought within practice as it probably reflects attitudes of the same system so that there will be one past times, but for it to be repealed when integrated system for the recovery of judg­ there is no legislation to replace it to protect ment debts throughout the State at all levels creditors who have made financial ad­ of courts. This could be consistent with the vances or supplied goods in good faith work being done by the Civil Justice Com­ would be most unfortunate and totally un­ mittee and lead to more efficiency in the fair to those persons. administration of the court system. The re­ covery and execution of judgments is the The structure of the commercial world in end result of judgments, and if an efficient Victoria rests on the ability to provide credit system is not in operation it will only add in good faith on the basis that the moneys to the burdens of people who have access to will be repaid in the terms under which they the courts. The Opposition supports the Bill were advanced. I am not suggesting for one and believes it will mark another step to­ moment that debtors are malicious in their wards the rationalization of procedures in intent not to repay, or that they wish to the courts. extend the terms of the repayment as far as they can. However, regrettably, a small The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ group of people appear to hold that attitude. ern Province)-I share Mr Storey's support One should be careful that it is not a case of for the Bill. It is a step towards rationaliza­ using a sledge hammer to crack a nut. tion of the execution of distress warrants. I am sure that it is never a pleasant duty for Many innocent people who conduct their members of the Police Force to serve dis­ businesses along normal lines will be dis­ tress warrants. The proposed legislation will advantaged by the endeavour of a group at least provide a more suitable legislative that seems to be going all out to protect and administrative framework covering the people who are not prepared to repay their various levels of courts that issue distress just debts. I sound that warning and indi­ warrants. cate concern at letters and articles that have appeared in newspapers in recent days. I I am concerned that an unfortunate atti­ hope the Government will not act in that tude appears to be developing in the com­ way. munity that people who are debtors or recalcitrant debtors are in some way deserv­ The motion was agreed to. ing of special consideration and more sym­ The Bill was read a second time. pathy than the person to whom the debt is owed. I have considerable sympathy for The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ people who get themselves into financial dif­ General)-By leave, I mOye: ficulties, whether through their own mak­ That this Bill be now read a third time. ing, through lack of understanding of financial arrangements or for whatever rea­ In so doing I thank Mr Storey for his con­ son. However, I have more sympathy for structive and helpful comments. I should creditors who are unable to recover what is hate to appear ungrateful for continuing the justly theirs. Creditors in general are not work that he commenced as Attorney-Gen­ what they are portrayed to be. They are not eral. I am always grateful to Mr Baxter for Shylocks or usurers. They are often people his amusement value. I assure the House in small business or commerce who in good that the Imprisonment of Fraudulent Debt­ faith and in an attempt to assist people ad­ ors Act is under examination by the Com­ vance them credit in the form of either monwealth Law Reform Commission. As I money or goods sold. have indicated before, the head of the Law Department, Professor David Kelly. is now An underlying current seems to have de­ a part-time member of the Commonwealth veloped from the Socialist left of the Labor Law Reform Commission. Mr Justice Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1085

Kirby's review, as part of the work of the to endorsements. The Bill will streamline first wave oflaw reform commissioners will administration. The Opposition has no ob­ be considering restructuring the provisions jection to the Bill as it provides a simple of the Imprisonment of Fraudulent Debtors mechanism if a person wishes to fish for Act., That is generally along the lines that he other species. recommended at the formation of the Com­ Members of the fishing industry are con­ monwealth Law Reform Commission. cerned about clause 6, which removes the There is no suggestion that the Imprison­ requirements that before a master fisher­ ment of Fraudulent Debtors Act Will be man's licence can be issued, the applicant abolished without proper safeguards being must have not less than two years' experi­ introduced in its place. It remains the atti­ ence as a commercial fisherman and be tude of the commissioners that the Impris­ competent in handling a boat. In recent onment of Fraudulent Debtors Act is years the Marine Board of Victoria has been Dickensian and unsatisfactory and we say, responsible for the testing of the owners of as the Law Reform Commission has said, boats on their competency in the handling that there ought to be a better way. of the boat, their navigational skills and so The motion was agreed to, and the Bill on. The Opposition is not opposed to the amendment so far as it deletes the require­ was read a third time. ments for a master fisherman to be tested FISHERIES (FURTHER again on competency in handling a boat. AMENDMENT) BILL The Opposition does argue strongly about the deletion of the requirements for a mas­ The debate (adjourned from November ter fisherman to have had two years' expe­ 16) on the motion of the Hon. R. A. Mack­ rience in the industry before being eligible enzie (Minister for Conservation, Forests for the issue ofa master fisherman's licence. and Lands) for the second reading of this The Victorian Professional Fishermen's Bill was resumed. Association has taken up that matter with The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat the Opposition and has put the case strongly Province)-The Bill introduces a number that it does not want the two-year require­ of changes to the Fisheries Act. In many ments to be eliminated. It is argued by that respects, this is a Committee Bill as it cov­ association that the present provision es­ ers a number of diverse aspects of the legis­ tablishes two criteria; firstly, a person's lation governing the fishing industry. competency in having owned a boat and, Honourable members will be well aware of secondly, that a person has had two years' the importance of the fishing industry to experience in commercial fishing. Those Victoria in providing employment and a criteria are the gauge by which a person is magnificent range of recreational activities judged as being worthy of being credited for those who enjoy fishing. with a master fisherman's licence. The Bill amends a number of sections of The Opposition will agree to the deletion the principal Act. The first significant aspect of the testing of competency in handling a is that the Bill changes the name of what is boat and allow that to be handled by the currently known as the Commercial Fish­ Marine Board of Victoria. During the Com­ eries Section to the Commercial Fisheries mittee stage I will move an amendment that Branch. That section was established in 1979 will allow for the provision of two ,years' and has operated effectively since that time experience to remain in the Bill. and has provided stability to the industry. The Bill abolishes the provision for the For some time the Public Service Board has issue of barracouta licences and licences for referred to the Commercial Fisheries Sec­ people wishing to sell aquarium fish. Both tion as the Commercial Fisheries Branch so those provisions are redundant as no appli­ it has been decided to give legislative effect cations have been made for the issue oflic­ to the name used by the Public Service ences for those purposes. Board. The Bill also includes a provision to over­ The Bill provides greater recognition of come the anomaly that existed in the 1975 the importance of the endorsements on Bill when provision was made for the en­ fishing licences by extending the current dorsement of commercial fisherman's lic­ procedures for the issuing of fishing licences ences. There was an oversight and provision 1086 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill was not made for the taking of eels from This clau;)e ought to be dealt with in the inland waters. The Bill will provide legisla­ proposed legislation that will need to be in­ tive power for such endorsements to be en­ troduced to give effect to the Government's tered. commitment to allow the transferability of The Bill also streamlines the provisions abalone licences. I will take up the matter covering the transfer of ownership and lic­ further during the Committee stage. ences relating to boats. The present situa­ The Bill also provides for a range of new tion is that if the owner of a boat, holding a amateur fishing licences and, if the Bill fishing licence, sells the boat the licence for passes, people will need to obtain an ama­ the boat ownership can be transferred into teur fishing licence for the taking of prawns, the name of the new owner but the fishing fishing bait, yabbies or freshwater crayfish, licence is simply allowed to lapse and an or to take crayfish from marine waters. The application for a new licence is made by the new owner. Under this measure the new Opposition does not argue with the princi­ owner of the boat will also be able to apply ple of having an amateur fishing licence for for the transfer of the fishing licence at the the taking of prawns, fishing bait or fresh­ time he applies for the transfer of the regis­ water crayfish. tration of ownership. That is a common­ Those varieties of fish, particularly fresh­ sense approach and the Opposition has no water crayfish, have become popular, and argument with that proposal. examples of some exploitation exist. The The Bill also allows for the issue of a sep­ Opposition does not accept that one should arate amateur netting licence without a per­ have a licence for the taking of yabbies. In son having to hold an amateur fishing many parts of Victoria yabbies are a pest. licence. There are occasions when a person The Hon. N. B. Reid-They are a deli­ will only want to have an amateur netting cacy. licence and may feel inconvenienced if he has to have an amateur fishing licence be­ The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES-They are a fore being able to use a net. The Opposition delicacy to eat, but many irrigation farmers does not oppose that provision. testify that yabbies create enormous prob­ lems in irrigation channels. Clause 9 amends section 16 (2A) and (28) The Hon. B. A. Murphy-They also dig of the principal Act. In 1975, when an amendment to the principal Act was made, up your front lawn! it was decided that those persons who held The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES-I am afraid a licence should use that licence and not the honourable member will not be able to simply hold on to it and by so doing prevent do anything about that problem unless he others who were keen to get into the indus­ obtains a licence to do so. That highlights try from doing so. At that time the Govern­ the absurdity of that aspect of the Bill. Many ment gave an undertaking that anyone who honourable members would recollect the held a licence prior to the introduction of thrill they had by going yabbying as young that Bill would have to demonstrate that he children. The Bill exempts people under or she was "actively and regularly" in­ sixteen years of age and pensioners from volved in the industry to retain the licence, having to apply for an amateur fishing lic­ whereas anyone who was issued with a lic­ ence. However, the Bill goes too far in re­ ence after 1975 was obliged to be "regularly, stricting the taking of yabbies. actively and substantially" involved in the fishing industry. The second-reading speech of the Minis­ ter acknowledged that the exploitation of The Bill seeks to insist that those people yabby fishing was not creating a problem. who held fishing licences prior to 1975 must Although the Opposition acknowledges that also prove that they are "substantially" in­ there may be a problem with fresh water volved. In reality, the clause is retrospective legislation. I am concerned that the Gov­ crayfish, it does not believe the same situa­ ernment has already made an announce­ tion applies to yabbies. The Opposition will ment that it is to allow for the transfer of be seeking to delete yabbies from that clause licences applying to individuals in the closed of the Bill. industries. The abalone fishing licence is a The Hon. R. A. Mackenzie-Not fresh­ good example. water crayfish? Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1087

The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES-No. The dicated that the transfer fee of one abalone Opposition accepts that there is a need for licence from an existing holder to a new fishermen to obtain a licence to catch fresh­ holder will attract a $5000 payment to the water crayfish, particularly since they have Government. The person entering the in­ become so popular. dustry will need to buy two licences, there­ The professional fishermen who take ma­ fore, the diver selling the licence will add rine crayfish have acknowledged that they $5000 to the selling price, and that will be are not concerned about the current limit paid for by the new diver. To obtain two on the number of crayfish that can be taken licences, a contribution of $10 000 will be without the requirement of a licence. How­ paid to the Government. ever, they are concerned that if people have The annual licence fee should reflect a to obtain an amateur fishing licence they fair return to the Government so that it can may argue fairly strongly that there should maintain the fishery, but there ought not be not be a limit on the number of crayfish that a capital cost associated with the transfer of may be taken. The Opposition does not wish that licence because it will guarantee that to pursue the matter but I simply make the anyone entering the fishery will have to pay point that one ought not to create a situa­ $10 000 in addition to whatever else he must tion that will lead to increased pressure on pay, and he will be forced to exploit the the taking of crayfish by amateurs. fishery as much as he can simply to cover fees, let alone to make an income. I do not understand why amateur fishing licences are being introduced because there It is a bad principle and should not be in has not been pressure from the commercial the Bill. Even if it is agreed to, it should be fishermen in this respect. contained in legislation that will provide for the transfer. Clause 16 provides the Government with The Hon. R. A. Mackenzie-It is not in the power to charge a fee for the transfer or the Bill; abalone licences are not mentioned assignment oflicences up to an amount not in the Bill. exceeding $5000. It is my understanding that this is significant with respect to the trans­ The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES-The Min­ ferability of abalone licences. On 29 Sep­ ister for Conservation, Forests and Lands tember this year the Minister announced should explain the significance of clause 16, that the Government would legislate to en­ because, if the transfer fee costing $5000 able commercial abalone licences to be does not apply to abalone licences, I should transferred. Associated with the press re­ like to know to what other licences it does lease was a scale of fees that the Govern­ apply. ment indicated it would pursue. In the press The Hon. R. A. Mackenzie-There is a release the Government argued that a sub­ separate amendment for abalone licences. stantial increase should be made in the level The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES-I appreci­ of the annual licence fee. According to the ate that but, on my reading of the Bill ac­ document, the figure was based on approx­ cording to the original Act, it does not allow imately 10 per cent of the gross revenue for the transfer of abalone licences, but es­ generated, on average, by divers. As I un­ tablishes a fee that can be charged for the derstand the abalone industry, some divers transfer of abalone licences. If that is not dive constantly and others do not work Quite the case, I shall be interested to hear the as hard. Minister's response. However, as to the abalone licence fee, As I have indicated, a number of matters the Government is forcing all divers to ex­ are of concern to the Opposition, but a ploit the fishery as much as they can. A real number of other aspects of the Bill will Question exists as to whether that approach streamline the administration of the indus­ will lead to over-exploitation of the fishery try, and the Opposition is not opposed to and will encourage those who have abalone them. licences to dive more regularly than they had intended. The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ ern Province)-The National Party sup­ Associated with that measure, the Minis­ ports the Bill. I will deal with two issues ter for Conservation, Forests and Lands in- during my remarks. The first is the aspect 1088 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill that undoes the action of the previous Gov­ had been solved and that only one licence would be ernment in offering reciprocal licence ar­ required. However, when one read the fine print it was rangements to holders of New South Wales discovered that that licence was going to cost precisely fishing licences when they fish on waters the fees of the two States added together. What a farce! No wonder people become disgruntled with politi­ such as Lake Hume and Lake Mulwala, cians. which cross State borders. When the pre­ vious Government took that action two Three years have passed and we are still in years or three years ago, I was critical of the the same situation. offering of reciprocal arrangements without securing a similar offer from New South On 18 May 1981, in reply to a letter from Wales because it severely weakened Vic­ the Secretary of the North East Victoria Re­ toria's bargaining position. That is not to gional Council, I stated: say that I do not agree with the concept of While I appreciate that Victoria acted in good faith, reciprocal licences. It is highly desirable, and I am of the view that it weakened its negotiating posi­ it is time that an arrangement existed tion by agreeing to reciprocity before it secured a simi­ whereby a fishing licence, as are drivers' lic­ lar undertaking from New South Wales. In my view, it ences, is valid in all States of Australia. is now going to be very difficult to have New South However, I can understand that Govern­ Wales come to the party! ment's desire to restore the position which That is exactly what occurred. New South formerly applied, bearing in mind the re­ Wales laughed all the way to the bank be­ luctance of the New South Wales Govern­ cause Victoria unilaterally fixed up all New ment to offer a similar arrangement. South Wales anglers so that they could fish I will read to the House some letters I wherever they liked on Lake Hume and have in my files to demonstrate that my Lake Mulwala. They were quite safe to fish strongly-held views have been proved cor­ on Lake Hume, even on the Mitta arm, rect. As far back as October 20, 1980, I re­ which is totally in Victoria but a Victorian ceived a letter from the Murray Regional angler, who was unable to determine where Angling Clubs Association, which stated: the boundary was, was not safe. I defy any­ one to tell me where the old bed of the River Since 1971 several M.R.A.C.A. clubs have been trying Murray lies when Lake Hume is full and the to remedy the continuing saga of the border anomalies banks are 200 feet under water. Of course problem. As far as we know the problem still exists to New South Wales did nothin~ about it; Vic­ the possible detriment of the fishermen and the esteem toria had given a gratuitous gIft to their fish­ in which law should be held. ermen, but they did not give anything in We have repeatedly expressed our misgivings in var­ return. ious quarters about the situation on the Murray River, Lake Hume and Lake Mulwala. In an article in the Twin Cities Post of 1 December 1982, the honourable member for The letter goes on in fairly strong language Albury, Mr Harold Mair, stated: and concludes: Reciprocal fishing rights would cost New South Wales I do apologize for the harshness of this letter but much of its revenue from inland angling licences. regard this issue as top priority on the minutes of our agenda. Mr Mair went on to say that the loss would I responded to that letter on 27 October, seriously affect the Inland Fisheries Fund. 1980 and said: Notwithstanding the failure of the past Government to negotiate a satisfactory ar­ Thank you for your letter of the 20th of October. rangement with New South Wales and that There is certainly no need to apologize for the harsh­ I can understand this Government's desire ness of your remarks. I agree with them entirely and I to restore the former position because of am completely fed-up with the procrastination which that, I encourage this Minister to continue has gone on by both Governments and the Border negotiations with New South Wales to ar­ Anomalies Committee. rive at a satisfactory reciprocal arrange­ In my view, as a first-step, Lake Hume and Lake ment. Mulwala should be declared as waters where a licence of either State will be sufficient, while the matter of the The present situation is crazy. People Murray River as a whole is finalized. fishing at Lake Hume are unsure of their You will no doubt recall that about two years ago, rights. Their only safety lies in having both the Premier, in a fanfare, announced that the problem a Victorian and a New South Wales licence, Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1089 and that is costly. With a Labor Party Gov­ that efforts to obtain reciprocal fishing lic­ ernment in office in New South Wales and ences between Victoria and New South a Labor Party Government in office in Vic­ Wales would be successful. I agree with the toria, perhaps the lines of communication honourable member that it is still worth an­ will result in more fruitful negotiations. At other try because it is always worth while least, it is worth a try. trying to get reciprocal arrangements. The other aspect with which I wish to The basis on which Victoria permitted a deal is the appointment of agents to sell New South Wales licence to be used to fish fishing licences. On 17 November 1982, I in Victoria was the promotion of tourism, received a reply from the former Minister, and it did give that effect. New South Wales Mr Houghton, when he was declining to act fishermen came to Victoria as tourists to on representations that I had made on be­ fish in the waters described by Mr Baxter as half of the Kookaburra Point General Store, well as at Dartmouth and other important which is a business located on the shores of fishing waters. Lake Hume. Notwithstanding its location The New South Wales authorities would in Victoria, that store is able to sell New never agree to reciprocal arrangements be­ South Wales fishing licences but, strangely, cause they were getting large revenue from the former Government would not permit Victorian fishermen in the River Murray. it to sell Victorian licences. Can anyone be­ lieve such a conundrum? A store located in The Victorian Government hoped­ Victoria is authorized to sell New South again, it was a forlorn hope-that by allow­ Wales fishing licences but it is not allowed ing New South Wales fishermen to use that to sell Victorian fishing licences. licence to fish in Victoria, the conscience of the New South Wales Government would One can understand the confusion of people going into that store and attempting be touched and reciprocal arrangements to buy fishing licences-perhaps on a Sun­ made. Of course, Governments do not have day when they may have travelled from a conscience, so the Victorian Government Melbourne to Lake H ume-and being told was never able to touch the conscience of by the storekeeper that they are able to pur­ the New South Wales Government. chase from him only a New South Wales The motion was agreed to. licence and that he is not allowed to sell The Bill was read a second time and com- anyone Victorian licences. What person mitted. would accept that as a rational explanation? Clause 1 was agreed to. The store is very busy in its sale of New South Wales fishing licences. In 1981, it sold Clause 2 109 full and 63 short-term New South Wales The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister fishing licences. Presumably it could have for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-I sold an equal number and even a greater thank members of the Liberal Party and the number of Victorian fishing licences. National Party for their support of the Bill. The reply from the former Minister to my Amendments to the Fisheries Act occur reg­ representations was that the general store­ ularly. They are necessary from time to time keeper would not be authorized as an agent because the industry changes a great deal for Victorian fishing licences because al­ and circumstances vary. ready there were sufficient agents in Vic­ Mr Knowles raised some interesting toria. That was a most unsatisfactory questions on the Government's proposal to answer. I hope the present Minister is more remove the requirement that, before a mas­ generous in his appointments of agents. The ter fishermen's qualification can be issued, appointment of agents should be perceived the applicant must have not less than two as providing a service to fishermen and as year's experience in fishing and be compe­ enabling people who want to fish to do so tent in handling a boat. The present opera­ within the law by being able to obtain fish­ tion of that regulation is difficult for ing licences. Fisheries and Wildlife Division officers to The Hon. W. V. HOUGHTON (Temple­ police and, over the years, there have been stowe Province)-It is true, as Mr Baxter incidents of false declarations being given, said, that in the past it was a forlorn hope and so on. The Government believes it 1090 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill would be simpler for Marine Board certifi­ I thank honourable members for their cates to apply. support of the Bill which, when passed, will The change was brought about, as hon­ lead to the better management of what is an ourable members know, as the result of a important resource. The Bill will lead to bad accident and a subsequent Marine better control of the fishing industry and Board inquiry. The recommendation of the provide additional finances for the im­ Marine Board was that these certificates proved management and policing of Victo­ should be a pre-requisite to people being rian waters. able to take vessels out to sea. There is no The clause was agreed to, as were clauses need for duplication. The present require­ 3 to 5. ment is unnecessary. Clause 6 Mr Knowles also argues that the pro­ posed legislation alludes to the transfer of The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat licences for abalone fishermen. That is not Province)-I move: so. The transfers outlined apply only to Clause 6, line 24, paragraph (a), omit this paragraph crayfish and scallop fishermen. The licence and insert: for abalone fishermen is the subject of a '(a) in sub-section (2A) the words "and is competent separate amendment to the Fisheries Act. It to be in charge of the boat and the number of crew was hoped that that amendment could be specified in his application for a licence" shall be re­ passed during the present sessional period pealed'. in conjunction with the Bill before the The Minister for Conservation, Forests and Committee but, due to difficulties in draft­ Lands indicated that the Government does ing, the proposed amendment will be de­ not believe the provision of two-years' ex­ bated in the autumn sessional period. perience in commercial fishing has any sig­ The Government has considered the pos­ nificance in terms of a master fisherman's sibility of not requiring fishermen to obtain licence. That view is strongly contested by a licence to fish for yabbies. However, it the Victorian Professional Fishermen's As­ must be remembered that many fishermen sociation, which in a letter it sent to the believe the licence is necessary for the effec­ Opposition states: tive management of yabbies, which are an important resource. If there is to be effec­ Fishermen have, over a long period of time, regis­ tered their opposition to the Fisheries and Wildlife tive management of that resource, the only Division's proposal to delete the "Two years experi­ way to raise money for that management is ence in commercial fishing" on the grounds that the through the imposition of a licence fee word of a master fisherman would have little or no whereby those who wish to take yabbies for meaning. commercial purposes should be obliged to take out a licence. Persons under sixteen Earlier I indicated that the Opposition ac­ years of age and pensioners will not need to cepts that the Marine Act should be used to take out a licence to fish for yabbies. The test the competency of applicants to handle Government does not wish to prevent young a boat with navigational skills and so on. persons from indulging in the pastime of However, as the Minister indicated, there fishing for yabbies. has been some difficulty in determining the Mr Baxter raised the problem that exists accuracy of the information provided to the in the area that he represents, along the bor­ Government on the prerequisite to obtain a der between New South Wales and Vic­ master fisherman's licence. That could have toria. The Government believed it was been overcome by the Government ensur­ reasonable to permit fishermen from other ing that any applicant for a master fisher­ States with interstate fishing licences to fish man's licence would be obliged to provide on the inland streams of Victoria. However, a statutory declaration indicating that the Victorian fishermen have had to pay large applicant has had two years' experience in sums of money for licences to fish in New commercial fishing. If it was subsequently South Wales and therefore, the Govern­ discovered that a false declaration has been ment believes it is right that fishermen from lodged, the applicant would be open to a interstate should apply for Victorian fishing charge of perjury. That would meet the licences. I will conduct further investiga­ needs of the Professional Fishermen's As­ tions into the matter raised by Mr Baxter. sociation, which believes a Master Fisher- Hospitals Superannuation Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1091 man's Licence should have more The system under this Bill will be a rela­ significance than simply being a means tively simple one and anyone holding a which leads to the provision of money shooter's licence, when that licence comes through the holding of annual licences. If up for renewal, will be required to register the amendment is agreed to, it will delete the firearms in his possession; these will then all reference to competency in charge of a be registered on the computer against that boat and mean that the prerequisite for a shooter's name. If he then wishes to pur­ master fisherman's licence would be two chase an additional firearm, he will obtain years' experience in the commercial fishing a form from either the central firearms re­ industry. gistry or the Victoria Police; the form will be presented after a three-week delay to a The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North Eastern gun dealer and a sale may take place. In­ Province)-I suggest that progress be re­ cluded in this form-and it will be one sin­ ported because I need to take advice on the gle document-will be a notice of disposal proposed amendment. and acquisition offirearms. This form must Progress was reported. be completed and returned to the registrar so that the details can be included on the HOSPITALS SUPERANNUATION computer. (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2) Once a shooter's licence is obtained, it is A message was received from the Assem­ not necessary for him to justify why he wants bly transmitting a communication from the additional firearms or pass any further tests Clerk of the Parliaments calling attention to of his ability or knowledge of firearms. I certain clerical errors in this Bill, and ac­ have received some indication of the test quainting the Council that the Assembly had that will be .applied to people making appli­ corrected the errors. cation to either the Victoria Police Force or the central firearms registry. The test to de­ The Council concurred with the Assem­ termine whether one is eligible to hold a bly in the correction of the errors. shooter's licence will be in two separate di­ visions. In the first division the applicant FIREARMS (FURTHER must correctly answer five, of the five ques­ AMENDMENT) BILL tions and in the second division he must The debate (adjourned from November complete ten of fifteen questions satisfac­ 16) on the motion of the Hon. R. A. Mack­ torily. If the applicant fails that test, he can enzie (Minister for Conservation, Forests delay his application and make a further and Lands) for the second reading of this attempt one week later. Bill was resumed. All the details of the test will be recorded The Hon. N. B. REID (Bendigo Prov­ on his application and then returned to a ince)- Honourable members will recall that police station 21 days later. It is interesting when the Firearms (Amendment) Bill was to note that after the first firearms Bill was presented to the House, any person wishing amended, the Government experienced dif­ to buy a firearm had first to obtain a permit ficulties in implementing the firearms reg­ to purchase, ifhe wished to possess another istration. This was because of the Government's lack of ability to consult firearm. Even though he had demonstrated people who have expert knowledge in the that he was a fit and proper person to pos­ firearms field. I notice that the Government sess a firearm and held a shooter's licence, has added Mr Ted Clark to the Firearms he was required to obtain a further permit Consultative Committee. He is an expert in to purchase an additional firearm. firearms and understands the technical as­ The Bill was subsequently amended to pects of the proposed firearms legislation. I delete that provision, and because of the am pleased that the Government has finally amendments and difficulties that had been realized it should have consulted with the experience by the Government and by the industry and the Shooting Sports Council Victoria Police in implementing a satisfac­ of Victoria before it introduced the Fire­ tory registration system, it is now necessary arms (Amendment) Bill. If that had been for the Firearms (Further Amendment) Bill done, a much better formal Bill would have to be introduced to correct those anomalies. been introduced to the House. 1092 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Firearms (Further Amendment) Bill I am pleased that the Shooting Sports respects but that has some anomalies to be Council has been consulted on this Bill and sorted out. that the Government has accepted amend­ As I mentioned, trade in firearms can ments in the other place which corrected a continue for some time yet and I predict couple of small technical anomalies. I am that, by the time the next election comes also pleased that the Government agreed to around, the Labor Party will still not have the recommendations of Mr Clark and the implemented this system satisfactorily. Shooting Sports Council with respect to the There are many technical anomalies in the technical matters that were raised and, that Bill and the Government will find it diffi­ these two technical areas have been ap­ cult to implement the measure. The Oppo­ proved. sition does not oppose the measure. At long The Victoria Police Force believe the last, the Government has seen the light, to scheme of registration may now work. a certain extent, and is consulting people However, one point to be noted is that peo­ who understand what the measure is all ple holding shooters' licences that do not about; it is to be hoped that the Govern­ come up for renewal for some time will not ment is able to sort out some of these tech­ be required to re-register their firearms. The nical problems. The firearms registration shooter's licence can be obtained for up to will not, in the future, do anything to stop three years, which means that anyone hold­ criminals from obtaining firearms for use in ing a shooter's licence prior to the date of crimes. implementation of the Bill will be able to The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ sell or purchase firearms under the Act until ern Province)-The National Party sup­ his shooter's licence comes up for renewal; ports this measure which incorporates the he will be able to operate for three years improvements made to the Firearms buying and selling firearms with no record (Amendment) Bill by the Opposition and being kept. the National Party when the Bill was de­ There will be a hiatus between the time bated in the last sessional period. shooters' licences are issued and when the Its support for the Bill should not be taken licences come up for renewal over three by the Government, or by the people at years, and in that time people will be able large, to indicate that the National Party to buy and sell firearms without restriction has changed its view on the measure and because those firearms do not have to be now supports it. That is certainly not the registered until the licence is due for re­ case. The National Party still holds the view newal. That is an anomaly of the Bill and it that was stron$1y expressed in both Houses will take some time to implement those in the last sessIonal period. I agree with Mr changes. Ofcourse, it relates to the principle Reid that the registration of firearms will of whether registration, will prevent the have no effect whatsoever on the use of fire­ criminal element in our community from arms by criminals. using firearms in the carrying out of a I wish to impress upon the Minister, crime. bearing in mind that the Government in­ The Hon. W. R. Baxter-It will not make tends to persist with this proposed legisla­ one iota of difference. tion, that prior to the requirement of registration coming into effect, as from 1 The Hon. N. B. REID-I do not believe January, there needs to be a concerted ad­ it will. The Government, however, has con­ vertising campaign by the Government to tinued with the policy that it has been es­ explain to shooters and firearm owners pousing for many years. throughout Victoria precisely what the re­ I still see difficulties with the measure. quirements of the proposed legislations are The Opposition does not oppose the Bill. and what action will be necessary to be taken The Government made a couple of small by those persons. amendments in the other place and it has I have received a number of telephone also taken the opportunity of consulting calls and inquiries at my electorate office, people who understand what the firearms from people who are concerned to ensure industry is about, who have the technical they are abiding by the law, to ensure that knowledge and expertise to guide them they have carried out the proper registra­ through a system that is workable in some tion, and to ascertain whether they have the Legal Profession Practice Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1093

proper licences and whether it is necessary The first, as provided in clause 2, allows to surrender a particular class of firearm. In for the imposition of a fee when an appli­ the next couple of months it is hoped that cant for admission to practice as a barrister the Minister will implement an extensive and solicitor of the Supreme Court of Vic­ advertising campaign to acquaint the peo­ toria serves a notice of intention to apply ple of Victoria with the ramifications of the for admission. The fees will be applied to­ Act once registration becomes mandatory wards the salary of the proposed new full­ early in the New year. time position of Secretary to the Council of The motion was agreed to. Law Reporting and the Board of Exam­ iners. The new position will combine the The Bill was read a second time. duties of the present part-time positions of The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister Secretary, Council of Law Reporting and for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-By Secretary to the Board of Examiners. The leave, I move: new position is necessary to cope with the increasing workloads of both these posi­ That this Bill be now read a third time. tions. In so doing, I thank the members of the The second specific purpose, as provided Opposition and the National Party for their for in clause 3 of the Bill, is to repeal section somewhat begrudging support of this pro­ 62 of the Summary Offences Act 1966. That posed legislation. I remind them also, that section provides for the payment of one half they seem to be toting the guns lobby prop­ the amount of fines imposed for certain off­ aganda and seem to have fixed in their ences under the Summary Offences Act 1966 minds that the whole purpose of the Fire­ to the municipalities in which those off­ arms (Further Amendment) Bill is to keep ences occurred. firearms from the hands of the criminal ele­ This section forms part of a scheme intro­ ment. duced around the middle of the last century to encourage local government authorities The main purpose of the proposed legis­ to assume responsibility, in part at least, for lation is to ensure that firearms are used the good rule and improvement of cities responsibly, and to bring in controlled and towns. The scheme provided for fines measures that will ensure that firearms are for offences against the good order, prose­ used responsibly by' people who accept some cution by either the police or officers of the degree of responsibility, which certainly was local authority and payment of a half of the not the case under the previous regulations. fines imposed for such offences to the local The Government will continue the consult­ authority. ati ve process which was carried out prior to the Bill being drawn up. The Government The scheme was Quickly overtaken by has proved that by setting up the consulta­ legislation such as local government Acts tive committee which works very closely and health Acts, and so forth, which gave with it and I am sure some of these small municipal authorities power to make by­ anomalies that have occurred in the introd­ laws with respect to the matters relating to good rule and improvement of municipali­ uction of the Bill will be ironed out with the ties. So complete was the change that in help of that committee. I thank honourable 1908 William Paul in his work "The Police members for their support of this proposed Offences Acts" observed that the scheme legislation. was then of minor practical importance. The motion was agreed to, and the Bill The scheme is an anachronism. Its pur­ was read a third time. pose is presently better served by other leg­ LEGAL PROFESSION PRACTICE islation. The vast majority of prosecutions (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL for offences to which section 62 of the Sum­ mary Prosecutions Act 1966 applies are po­ For the Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ lice prosecutions. General, the Hon. E. H. Walker (Minister The repeal of section 62 of the Summary for Planning and Environment)-I move: Prosecutions Act 1966 will also remove an­ That this Bill be now read a second time. other anachronism. In the last century per­ sons made a living as common informers The Bill has two specific purposes. by receiving half the fine imposed for any

Session 1983-44 1094 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Racing (Further Amendment) Bill offence against the good order for which they As all honourable members know, the had laid any information. The practice of chief architects of the board were Sir Henry laying such private informations has fallen Bolte and the late Sir Arthur Rylah. into disuse in this century. The justification The Hon. H. R. Ward-What about the for encouraging common informers waned late Sir Chester Manifold? on advent of an effective police force. The Hon. F. J. GRANTER-I was com­ It is more appropriate in these times that ing to the late Sir Chester Manifold, who all Victorians benefit equally from the fines was the first chairman of the board. Inci­ imposed for such offences. This can be dentally there have been only two chair­ achieved by the payment of the whole of men. The other chairman is Mr Hilton such fines into the Consolidated Fund. The Nicholas who has been chairman for fifteen Bill achieves this end. I commend the Bill years. Mr Jack Rutter should receive men­ to the House. tion because he has been an outstanding The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern success as the board's general manager. In Province )-On behalf of the Honourable mentioning general managers, the House is Haddon Storey, I move: saddened by the thought that Mr Bart God­ win, the assistant general manager of the That the debate be now adjourned. board, has resigned and is going to San Diego in the United States of America. No I suggest that it be adjourned to Tuesday, doubt with the intention of setting up a sim­ November 29. I ask the Minister to request ilar scheme there. that the Attorney-General advise the Op­ position before the debate resumes whether Mr Ray Borelli, the Director of the Rac­ the Municipal Association of Victoria has ing and Gaming Division of the Depart­ been consulted concerning the amend­ ment of Youth, Sport and Recreation, will ments. retire soon. He is now on extended leave. The men I have mentioned have all contri­ The motion for the adjournment of the buted to the success of the Totalizator debate was agreed to, and it was ordered Agency Board. The board's success is due that the debate be adjourned to Tuesday, to their ability as administrators and as November 29. founders. The board has made a tremen­ The sitting was suspended at 6.30 p.m. dous contribution to the amenities for the until 8.4 p.m. spectators and the punters, whether they be attending the gallop, harness or gr~yhound RACING (FURTHER AMENDMENT) races. BILL The owners, trainers, jockeys and whoever else is involved with racing have The debate (adjourned from November also gained by the introduction of the board. 16) on the motion of the Hon. D. E. Kent Racing in Victoria is on the highest plain. It (Minister of Agriculture) for the second is the highest in the Commonwealth and reading of this Bill was resumed. probably the world. The standard of racing The Hon. F. J. GRANTER (Central would need to be on a high plain and ad­ Highlands Province)-The Bill amends the ministered correctly when one considers the Racing Act 1958 with respect to the mem­ amount of stake money available at pres­ bership of the Totalizator Agency Board and ent. the appointment of the principal adminis­ The Victoria Racing Club could still re­ trative officers and other officers of the Har­ ceive more support from the Government ness Racing Board, the Greyhound Racing through funding from the Racecourses Lic­ Control Board and the Totalizator Agency ences Board for what is known as the link Board and for other purposes. The Opposi­ stand. It is a stand that would provide tion does not oppose the Bill; however, it greater amenities to the Victoria Racing will make a suggested amendment at a later Club and to the public in general. The pub­ stage. The Totalizator Agency Board has lic is well catered for in the hill stand; how­ been a great success in Victoria and right ever, there is need for a link stand, especially throughout the Commonwealth of Aus­ during the spring racing carnival which has tralia since it was introduced around 1961. just finished. Racing (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1095

The spring racing carnival is a tremen­ after all, now provides 75 per cent of Totalizator Agency dous ~oost to the Victorian economy aJ;ld Board turnover. to tounsm. The number of people who come At a meeting of Chairmen of the Metropolitan Rac­ from interstate and overseas to the carnival ing Clubs and the Victorian Country Racing Council is considerable. Harness and greyhound on 10th November, 1983, it was agreed that there racing contribute considerably to the wel­ should be additional representation of Metropolitan fare of racing and to the welfare of the peo­ Racing on the Totalizator Agency Board having regard ple who are involved in racing for their to the fact that it provides the bulk of the turnover. livelihood. The remainder of the letter is not relevant As has been stated by the Government;if to the debate but is available for the Minis­ not in the Bill in other areas, all sections of ter ifhe wishes to see it. Other clauses of the the sport should receive due remuneration. Bill validate the appointment of Mr Ray Although I am reminded by the Chairman Quinn as the Chief Executive of the Har­ of the Victoria Racing Club, who has prov­ ness Racing Board, Mr Ned Wall ish as the ided a letter, that racing contributes 75 per Secretary of the Greyhound Racing Control cent of the Totalizator Agency Board's turn­ Board and Mr Jack Rutter as the General over, harness and greyhound racing should Manager of the Totalizator Agency Board. also receive their just rewards from the The second-reading speech of the Minister board's dividends. stated: Proposed new section 1168 (1) provides The Government is keen to see that these key offices are filled by the independent people of the highest pos­ that: sible quality. The Board shall consist of six members appointed I agree with that. The effect of the proposed by the Governor in Council of whom- amendment to the Racing Act 1958 is that (a) one, who shall be chairman, shall be a person the three boards will require the approval nominated by the Minister who is not a member of the of the Minister to either appoint or termi­ Committee of the Victoria Racing Club, or of the Har­ ness Racing Board or the Greyhound Racing Control nate the applicant of their principal officers. Board; As had been said, these officers contribute considerably to the respective sections of (b) one, who shall be deputy chairman, shall be a person nominated by the Minister after consultation their sport. Some of the VRC committee with the Treasurer of Victoria; members and I have not always seen eye to eye with respect to country racing. Never­ (c) one shall be a person nominated by the Minister theless, I admire their administrative abil­ from a list of three names submitted to him by the Victoria Racing Club after consultation with the Vic­ ity. I daresay country racing will have some toria Amateur Turf Club and the Moonee Valley Rac­ problems in the future. As the controlling ingClub; body of racing, it is necessary that the VRC seriously take into account the requests from It is with this proposed amendment to the country racing clubs and country racing Act that the Opposition disagrees with the representatives in general. Government. I am in receipt ofa letter dated 21 November 1983 from Mr Hilton Nicho­ I should mention that only recently there las of the Victoria Racing Club addressed to was a further intrusion into the activities of my colleague, the honourable member for c~untry clubs by removing three progres­ Gisborne, in another place, which states: SIve races. I suppose that does not sound enlightening to honourable members. How­ I refer to the Bill before the House to re-structure the ever, to remove progressive races from the Totalizator Agency Board and related matters. country and locate them in the vicinity of It is the firm view of the Victoria Racing Club Com­ Melbourne means quite a deal to a country mittee that, as the controlling body of racing in this racing club. State, it should have direct representation on the To­ talizator Agency Board. When the Bill was dealt with in the Lower House, the Opposition sought an assurance The Government acknowledges the Victoria Racing Club as the controlling body of racing under the pro­ from the Minister for Youth, Sport and visions of the Racing Act 1958. Having regard to the Recreation that the Victoria Racing Club importance of racing to the Board's activities and vice could be represented on the Totalizator versa, it is submitted that it is essential that the Vic­ Agency Board. My colleague, the honoura­ toria Racing Club be represented on the Board. Racing, ble member for Gisborne, made many re- 1096 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Racing (Further Amendment) Bill quests to the Minister, but an assurance was However, the National Party generally not forthcoming. Since the Victoria Racing agrees that the measure should pass. It has Club has been the principal club in admin­ listened to the case put forward by Mr istering Victorian racing for so long, the Op­ Granter and I must admit that I have far position considers it only right that it shoud less knowledge of the racing industry than have a representative on the board. MrGranter. During the Committee stage I shall move The Hon. F. J. Granter-You know about an amendment making this request, which Dederang, don't you? I hope is supported by my colleagues in the The Hon. D. M. EV ANS-I think that is National Party. I bring to the notice of the one of the most magnificent tracks in this Government a promise made by the Aus­ country. Not far from Dederang is the To­ tralian Labor Party a little over eighteen wong racing club, and those persons who months ago that, if it assumed office, it had some association with the Honourable would return to the punter the 5 cents frac­ T. W. Mitchell, when he was a member of tion on the dividend. Parliament, would know that the Towong racing club is not far from his property. In The Hon. D. E. Kent-What if he does fact, the name of his property is Towong not back a winner? Hill. However, Towong more recently The Hon. F. J. GRANTER-If the pun­ ~ained fame in the film Phar Lap in which ter does not back a winner, he may get 5 It not only doubled for the country racing cents on a placed horse. I know the Minister club in the first sequences of the film but of Agriculture is conversant with racing be­ was also the background for the Aqua Cal­ cause I saw him at the Melbourne Cup. I iente race in the American sequence in the am sure his knowledge of racing has in­ film. creased considerably after that visit. At that time it was extraordinarily dry in The Government should honour the elec­ country Victoria and the country looked tion promise of returning the dividend to bare and sandy. Therefore, there were no the nearest 5 cents to the punter. Punters problems of getting an accurate picture of a are extremely important to the racing in­ desert area in southern California when the dustry. Perhaps it is a little narrow to say film Phar Lap was shot at Towong a year or that, because owners, trainers, administra­ two ago. The shooting of the film created an tors and jockeys contribute to the racing enormous amount of local interest because industry. I call on the Government to hon­ many local people got dressed up in period our its election promise and return the div­ costume and attended the filming of the rac­ idend to the punter. No doubt the ing meeting. Government has not honoured the promise Mr Granter reminded me that places such because to do so would cost in the vicinity as Dederang and Towong provide facilities of $4·6 million and this would be a worry for a number of good horses to be trained, for the Treasurer. However, when a party which is important. I have said that the To­ makes an election promise, it should be ful­ wong racing club and track have now passed filled. I foreshadow an amendment during into history with the making of the success­ the Committee stage and I invite the Na­ ful film on the life ofPhar Lap. Perhaps that tional Party to support it. also brings to mind the fact that the racing industry in Australia is tinged with a great The Hon. D. M. EV ANS (North Eastern deal of romanticism. Although I am not di­ Province)-The National Party agrees to the rectly involved in the industry, it reminds passage of the Bill because it believes the me that some years ago there were many changes that have been imposed by the small country racing tracks around Vic­ Government are reasonable. It appears that toria, because horses have always had a very there is general concurrence that the changes special place in the hearts of Australians. should occur. I recall that there was perhaps Australia is a big country with a wide an instance handled in a pre-emptory fash­ range of climatic conditions and vast dis­ ion appointing the Chairman of the Totali­ tances to cover. Therefore, the horse was an zator Agency Board which, unfortunately, important method of transport in the early soured the milk of human kindness in the days. Just as young persons these days like breasts of some. to race their motor cars, the young people Racing (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1097 of the early days were proud of the prowess The Hon. H. R. WARD (South Eastern of their horses and were keen to pit them Province)-I should like to make a few against those of their neighbours and friends comments about the operation of this Bill. at the local race meeting. The Dederang, One of the problems with the Government Towong and Chiltern tracks-regrettably, at present is its whole approach to the re­ the Chiltern track has now gone by the moval of some of the traditional bodies in board-have been extremely fine racing sport so that it will get rid of them entirely. tracks. There was one at Moyhu many years One example of that is its present battle ago, and it was a very fine track. with the Victorian Football League. On the In answer to· Mr Ward's interjection, I Federal sphere, the Government is giving point out that many horses in the Greta credit to the Confederation of Australian West area to which he refers were raced by Sport ahead of the Australian Olympic Fed­ the Ned Kelly gang. They tried to work out eration. In Victoria, the criticism has been which of their neighbours they could get of the Victoria Racing Club administration, away from and which were the fastest horses. although it has been claimed that wonderful administrators of horse racing are em­ Racing is not only a large business but ployed in that club. That is one of the great also a form of light entertainment to many pities about the development of this Bill people and a keen sport for many others. and this is just one further step towards re­ Honourable members must recognize that moving the Victoria Racing Club as the point, and the National Party hopes the governing body of horse racing in this State. amendments proposed by the Government Naturally, that will be denied by the Minis­ will improve the racing scene. It believes ter who will speak on behalf of the Minister the amendments will have that effect, and responsible for this Bill. the National Party has some pleasure in supporting them. At this stage I should like to add to Mr Granter's remarks about the loss ofMr Bart I mentioned the short stretch my speech Godwin from the Totalizator Agency Board was intended to take until, happily, I was and to say how grateful I have been over interrupted by a number of interjections. the years to receive some unbiased remarks However, I intended to make a short and on sport from Mr Jack Rutter, who is the eloquent plea for those persons in this State General Manager of the Totalizator Agency who are interested in sprint racing-that is, Board. He has been a great strength to any­ 400-metre racing-which is not regarded body who has wanted an opinion on the very favourably by those who believe the operations of the racing industry, and I am sport of thoroughbred racing is the only le­ sure the Government, when in opposition, gitimate form of racing. Sprint racing in­ would also have received much assistance volves a much shorter distance. However, from him. The situation regarding Mr Ray it is a sport which has a number of devotees Borelli, who is the Director of the Racing and it appears unreasonable that they are and Gaming Division, is most unfortunate. not given greater opportunity of participat­ He has been a solid supporter of horse rac­ ing in that sport and of having available ing, particularly through the Department of betting facilities and better racing tracks. Youth, Sport and Recreation, his opinions I am told that sprint racing is extremely on the operations of the racing industry have popular in America and it could well be that been widely respected. there will be greater opportunity of devel­ In recent times he has been well sup­ oping sprint racing in Victoria for the en­ ported by Mr Spendlove, his deputy. In joyment of an additional and perhaps adding to the remarks of support that have somewhat different group of people. been given, I am glad to see that, through The National Party supports the Bill. It the Bill, the appointments ofMr Ray Quinn will give close consideration to the amend­ and Mr Ned Wallish are being confirmed as ments proposed by Mr Granter and, if the heads of the Harness Racing Board and the National Party finds some sense in them, it Greyhound Racing Control Board respec­ is likely that it will support them, as it sup­ tively. ports the Bill, again for the benefit of the The Hon. E. H. Walker-Would you like racing industry. a spot there in due course? 1098 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Racing (Further Amendment) Bill

The Hon. H. R. WARD-No, I am sorry. Granter, that there will be a great improve­ I thank the Minister for the offer, but, of ment and better support for the racing in­ course, I intend to move to England in two dustry as a whole. or three years' time to undertake something The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN that is a little more important than that. (Western Province)-I desire to add a few The Hon. A. J . Hunt-That is a good way remarks to the issues that have been raised to announce one's retirement. and adequately covered by my colleague, The Hon. H. R. W ARD-That is right. I Jock Granter, who would know more about should like to talk about the work of people racin~, particularly galloping, than anyone who have contributed much to the harness else In this Parliament. As honourable racing industry. Mr Ray Quinn has given a members would know, Mr Granter is the tremendous support. He started his career very distinguished President of the Bendigo in the country and moved to being the head Jockey Club, and that is a feather in his cap. of the Harness Racing Board in this State. Mr Granter has a great knowledge of this Mr Wallish has also been a hard-working industry, which, in its various facets, is being person in the racing industry. Mr Murray discussed by the House tonight. Cox has been a tremendous support to the There are a couple of principles involved racing industry, members of the Govern­ in the Bill. One is in relation to the appoint­ ment and members of the Opposition over ment by the three governing agencies of the many years. If anyone wanted an opinion executive officers. This is provided in pro­ about a matter relating to that industry, one posed new sections 43, 73 and 116G. In each would ask Murray Cox and receive an un­ case the board shall appoint, with the ap­ biased opinion about what the Victoria proval of the Minister, some fit and proper Racing Club was doing and what ought to person to be the chief executive officer of be done. He was not interested in political the board. On a number of occasions the opinions of people other than to ensure that Opposition has approved of the concept what was needed for the horse racing indus­ whereby the appointment of a chief execu­ try was provided. tive officer is carried out by the body to whom he is to be responsible; there is no The same applies to many others. I would question of divided loyalties, and the Min­ hope with the reconstruction of the Totali­ ister in charge of racing has the ultimate zator Agency Board that one of the posi­ ability to veto that appointment. The ap­ tions of deputy chairman would be given to pointment is made by the board itself, and the Victoria Racing Club because it has that is an important principle, and one that contributed so much to the racing industry should apply throughout the various legis­ over many years. Also, a large amount of lation that is put to this House. Perhaps money goes through that board, and one of there will be more about that later this eve­ its members should have been appointed to ning. that position. The Totalizator Agency Board works well It is strange that one part of the industry, and it has proved to be a very professional which provides 75 per cent of the funds, body. Only on an odd occasion has the sys­ should be restricted to equal voting rights, tem had any hiccups, and they have been with the other parts of the industry having due more to human error than to anything 25 per cent of the voting rights split between else. them. The Totalizator Agency Board has been a The deputy chairman is to be nominated pacemaker in industry. It has provided ad­ by the Minister after consultation with the vice not only to Australian agencies but to Treasurer. That is understandable, because many overseas agencies that have come to the board handles many millions of dollars Victoria to see how the Totalizator Agency and much of it is paid to the Government Board operates. I know that the Victorian for the benefit of the State in general. Totalizator Agency Board has acted as con­ I regret the dismantling of the Totalizator sultant to overseas countries, and one was Agency Board, and hope within the present Iran. A racing industry was being formed in new structure that is being proposed by the Iran just prior to the revolution, but the Government, together with the foreshad­ Shah got the boot and that industry had owed amendment to be moved by Mr short history, if my memory is right. As I Racing (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1099 said before, the Totalizator Agency Board ber of the principal racing club, the Victoria has an expertise which is recognized near Racing Club, will be appointed to the Total­ and far. izator Agency Board. As Mr Granter said, One might ask, why change something in another place the Opposition sought as­ that is working well? The changes are signif­ surance that representation would be given icant. The old section 1168 of the Racing under one of the headings to the Victoria Act and the proposed new section dealing Racin~ Club. The Minister did not do that. with the appointment of the board is where He saId something which is unexception­ these changes have occurred. Under the old able, that the Government wants the best Act there were eight members of the Total­ people available. It is the view of the Op­ izator Agency Board; one from the Victoria position that among the collective body of Racing Club, one from the Victoria Ama­ the Victoria Racing Club there are people teur Turf Club, one from the Moonee Val­ who would very properly add skill and ex­ ley Racing Club, one from the Harness pertise to a list of six, comprising the Total­ Racing Board, two from country racing, one izator Agency Board. from country trotting, and the final one was I look forward to discussing further the the chairman of the Greyhound Racing foreshadowed amendment to be moved by Control Board. Of those, three out of eight Mr Granter. With those few remarks, I sup­ represented city galloping clubs. port the general thrust of the Bill, although Proposed new section 1168, contained in I throw into question the need for a change clause 7, provides that the board shall con­ to the Totalizator Agency Board. sist of six members appointed by the Gov­ ernor in Council of whom one shall be the The motion was agreed to. chairman who shall be a person nominated The Bill was read a second time and com- by the Minister who is not a member of the mitted. committee of the Victoria Racing Club, or of the Harness Racing Board or the Grey­ Clause 1 was agreed to. hound Racing Control Board; one, who shall Clause 2 be deputy chairman, shall be a person nom­ The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ inated by the Minister after consultation culture)-I thank Mr Granter, Mr Evans, with the Treasurer of Victoria; one shall be Mr Ward and Mr Chamberlain for their a person nominated by the Minister from a contributions to the debate. Although they list of three names submitted to him by the ran off course occasionally, I trust there will Victoria Racing Club after consultation with be no further interference. the Victoria Amateur Turf Club and the An Honourable Member-We will put it Moonee Valley Racing Club; one shall be a to the stewards! person nominated by the Minister from a list of three names submitted to him by the The Hon. D. E. KENT-Certainly one is Harness Racing Board; one shall be a per­ aware from Mr Granter's comments that son nominated by the Minister from a list one's heart is where one's treasury is, and of three names submitted to him by the obviously he has been a substantial contrib­ Greyhound Racing Control Board; and· utor to either the sport of racing or the rac­ similarly, one shall be from the Victorian ing industry; sometimes there is confusion Country Racing Council. about whether racing is primarily a sport or The net effect is that the board is reduced an industry. from eight members to six, and the repre­ The Hon. B. A. Chamberlain-It is a sport sentation, as of right, from the city galloping for the bookmakers. clubs, is reduced to one. That is set out in The Hon. D. E. KENT-The aspect being paragraph (c) which states: discussed comes under the category of the One shall be a person· nominated by the Minister racing industry or, perhaps more accu­ from a list of three names submitted to him by the rately, the betting industry. Victoria Racing Club after consultation with the Vic­ Mr Ward spoke highly of persons in­ toria Amateur Turf Club and the Moonee Valley Rac­ volved in the administration of galloping, ingClub. harness and greyhound racing. Those sports Since a panel of three names is put to the or industries have brought to the fore per­ Minister, there is no guarantee that a mem- sons with a capacity for administration who 1100 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Racing (Further Amendment) Bill have carried out their duties responsibly and All speakers from the Opposition and the are highly respected in the community for National Party pointed out that the Vic­ their integrity. toria Racing Club is the principal club in­ The provisions in the Bill should not be volved in the racing industry and that it has seen as reflecting on the capacity of any in­ administered racing on a high plain in this dividual, but merely as an acceptance by State for more than 100 years. After reading the Government that it is legislating on a the letter from Mr Hilton Nicholas, the Op­ racing and gambling industry which is the position believes that club should have a concern of a vast number of people in the representative on the restructured board. community and which significantly in­ Perhaps that club would have a representa­ volves both their contribution to the facili­ ti ve selected from the panel of three names, ties for the conduct of race meetings and the but it would be equally likely that the Min­ Government's involvement in the func­ ister would not select the club's nominee. tions of the Totalizator Agency Board. I am As the principal club involved in the sport sure no one would say that the board has of racing, the Victoria Racing Club has pro­ not been administered efficiently but, duced many outstanding men in racing in nevertheless, the Government has a deep Victoria, and the Opposition moves this involvement in the continuing efficient administration of the board, the breadth of amendment in the hope that the Govern­ activities which may be generated from it ment will appoint a representative of that and the revenue it raises for the Victorian club to the Totalizator Agency Board. I say community. that with the knowledge that, during the spring racing carnival, the Government re­ Unfortunately, the payment of a divi­ ceived approximately $6 million in divi­ dend from the board is one way the Gov­ dends from the board for the benefit of ernment has of extracting money from the hospitals in this State. community, which appears to be less pain­ ful than other ways that may be regarded as Through the board, the punter is a large more equitable. contributor to the revenue of the State. It has always been the case, under either a I think Mr Granter regarded it as a Liberal or a Labor Government, that the triumph that he saw me at the Melbourne punter through the board has contributed Cup. I point out that I have always had a to the State's revenue. The former Liberal keen interest in racing, although not the de­ Government removed starting price book­ gree of pecuniary interest that Mr Granter makers, although I understand that they has had. have returned. The Government realizes that the gam­ bling industry and the Totalizator Agency An Honourable Member-Are you pre­ Board are a significant part of the daily life tending that you do not know? of many Victorians. I am pleased that mem­ The Hon. F. J. GRANTER-I have a lit­ bers of the Opposition and the National tle personal knowledge of the subject be­ Party have supported the principles con­ cause, as the then Minister for Police and tained in the Bill, and I note specifically the . Emergency Services, I established the Zebra role of the Minister in regard to the appoint­ Task Force under Chief Inspector Bob Pit­ ment of those people nominated by their taway, and that squad has made real in­ clubs. I hope the Opposition and the Na­ roads into starting price betting in Victoria. tional Party will see fit to enable the Bill to pass as drafted. I believe it has been carried on by the Labor Government, which realizes that the The clause was agreed to, as were clauses squad is outstanding. A squad in New South 3 to 6. Wales operates in a similar way. I com­ Clause 7 mend the proposed amendments. The Hon. F. J. GRANTER (Central The CHAIRMAN (the Hon. K. I. M. Highlands Province)-I move: Wright)-Order! Would Mr Granter indi­ Clause 7, lines 19 and 20, omit "after consultation cate whether amendment Nos. 2 and 3 are with the Treasurer of Victoria" and insert "from a list consequential upon amendment No. I? ofthree names submitted to him by the Committee of The Hon. F. J. GRANTER-Yes, in a the Victoria Racing Club". way. I suggest that the Committee tests Racing (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1101 amendment No. 1 initially before I move policy making body dealing with gambling the consequential amendments. I conclude facilities. by saying that I hope whoever will be the Mr Chamberlain indicated that he con­ new chairman of the Totalizator Agency siders it is not necessary for a nomination Board will be an outstanding man. to be recommended by the Treasurer be­ The Hon. D. M. EV ANS (North Eastern cause financial expertise could be provided Province)-The National Party has lis­ at the officer level. I am suggesting that the tened carefully to the well reasoned argu­ Totalizator Agency Board is a policy body ment of Mr Granter. It would be in the and that is one of the reasons why its eco­ interests of racing in Victoria for the Com­ nomic expertise was considered to have the mittee to accept the amendment, and I in­ highest priority other than representations dicate to the Committee that the National specifically from the Victoria Racing Club. Party proposes to do so. Considering the competence and attributes of many members of the Victoria Racing The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN Club within either of the two categories, I (Western Province)-The amendment pro­ know of no reason why a person nominated poses that instead of the deputy chairman for the position should not also be a mem­ being someone nominated by the Minister ber of the Victoria Racing Club. In line with after consultation with the Treasurer, it will the Government's policy, I cannot accept be someone representing the Victoria Rac­ the amendment. ing Club. A clause was included in the Bill to ensure that there would be financial ex­ The Hon. F. J. GRANTER (Central pertise on the Totalizator Agency Board, Highlands Province)-Opposition mem­ which makes sense. However, that can be bers are disappointed that the Minister will done at the officer level, rather than by a not accept the proposed amendment. Rac­ member of the board. Advice can be made ing is important for Victoria, firstly for the available so that the Government and the dividend that is paid to the Health Com­ board will not be deprived of expert finan­ mission for the running of hospitals, and, cial advice. The membership of the board secondly, for the contribution that the To­ talizator Agency Board makes to racing is not being increased so that a balance will clubs, harness racing and greyhound racing. still exist. If it were not for the Totalizator Agency The amendment proposed by Mr Gran­ Board dividends that go to country racing ter is reasonable, and I urge the Minister to clubs, they would be in dire straits today. accept it. The Minister said that the Totalizator The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ Agency Board is a policy board. He is right, culture)-I urge Opposition members to re­ and for that reason a member of the Vic­ consider their attitude. I am sure they are toria Racing Club committee should be on amenable to reason. A difference of view the policy board, especially when one con­ seems to exist about whether the Commit­ siders that the throughput in racing to the tee is dealing with racing administration or board is 75 per cent of the total income. As administration of the Totalizator Agency a member of a racing club I have consider­ Board, which is an organization providing able respect for members of the Victoria betting facilities for a variety of sports. Al­ Amateur Turf Club, the Moonee Valley though everyone recognizes that a substan­ Racing Club, and many country, harness tial proportion of betting is undertaken and greyhound racing clubs. The Victoria through the Totalizator Agency Board, there Racing Club is the most knowledgeable club, is no necessity for that situation to prevail. as it has proved over many years. The Totalizator Agency Board provides fa­ Many people from overseas see what cilities for betting and it may be that an­ happens in the administration of racing in other medium for betting may prove to be Victoria. Mr Chamberlain mentioned that attractive in future years for snail races or members of the Totalizator Agency Board something of that nature. staff have gone overseas and established Because the racing industry is the me­ agencies in other countries. Other adminis­ dium where most betting is done that seems trators such as stewards have also gone to support a case for racing interests to be overseas and taken over racing administra­ heavily represented in an administrative or tion in countries such as Malaysia. I ask the 1102 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill

Minister to reconsider his stand on behalf Tellers: of the Government. The Minister for Youth, MrStorey MrHoughton Sport and Recreation, who is knowledge­ MrWard MrKnowles able about the Victoria Racing Club and the PAIRS Totalizator Agency Board, should have the MrAmold MrConnard opportunity of reconsidering the matter. MrMurphy MrLong The Hon. H. R. WARD (South Eastern Province)-I support Mr Granter and sug­ The Hon. F. J. GRANTER (Central gest that the Minister report progress on the Highlands Province)-I move: Bill so that he can discuss the matter with Clause 7, lines 22 to 24, omit "the Victoria Racing the Minister for Youth, Sport and Recrea­ Club after consultation with the Victoria Amateur Turf tion. The provision is an important part of Club and the Moonee Valley Racing Club" and insert the operation of the industry which em­ "the Victoria Amateur Turf Club after consultation ploys thousands of people. I also noted an with the Moonee Valley Racing Club". interjection that the racing industry should provide funds for hospitals. The Committee, having accepted my first amendment, should accept this amend­ I agree that the racing industry, or the ment which deletes the Victoria Racing gambling industry, ought to apply any sur­ Club. This does not give the Victoria Rac­ plus money that is available in certain areas ing Club two representatives but allows the to balance the books. Victoria Amateur Turf Club and the Moo­ This is a major industry and I implore nee Valley Racing Club to submit one name the Minister to report progress and refer the to the Minister. I request that the Commit­ matter to the Minister for Youth, Sport and tee accept the amendment. Recreation for further consideration. The amendment was agreed to, as was a The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ consequential amendment and the clause, culture)-Mr Chairman, we shall not be as amended, was adopted. moved. The Bill was reported to the House with The Committee divided on the question amendments, and passed through its re­ that the words proposed by Mr Granter to maining stages. be omitted stand part of the clause (the Hon. K. I. M. Wright in the chair). Ayes 18 FISHERIES (FURTHER Noes 20 AMENDMENT) BILL The House went into Committee for the Majority for the amendment 2 further consideration of this Bill. AYES Discussion was resumed of clause 6 and Mr Butler MrMier ofMr Knowles's amendment: MrHenshaw Mr Pullen Mrs Hogg MrSandon Clause 6, line 24, paragraph (a), omit this paragraph Mr Kennan MrSgro and insert: MrKennedy MrWalker "(a) in sub-section (2A) the words ""and is competent MrKent MrWhite to be in charge of the boat and the number of crew Mrs Kimer specified in his application for a licence" shall be re­ Mr Landeryou Tellers: pealed'. Mr Mackenzie Mrs Coxsedge MrMcArthur Mrs Dixon The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-The NOES Government rejects the proposal that an MrBaxter MrEvans applicant for a Master Fishermen's Licence Mrs Baylor MrGranter should have no less than two years' experi­ Mr Birrell MrGuest ence in commercial fishing as a prerequi­ MrBlock MrHayward MrBubb Mr Hunt site. One of the primary reasons for the Mr Chamberlain MrLawson provision as mentioned before it was al­ MrCrozier MrRadford tered, is that there was an accident in 1971 MrDunn MrReid involving the collision of vessels. Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL lI03 Following the inquiry held by the Marine indicated earlier, I am not disputing the Board of Victoria, the board recommended point that the Marine Board of Victoria that fishermen, especially those in charge of ought to be the body that makes an assess­ vessels, should be subject to a special ex­ ment of an applicant as to his or her ability amination. A grade of licences was worked and capacity to handle a boat. That is not out with the board. Ever since the board has the dispute. been responsible for ensuring that operators The amendment does not suggest that the of fishing vessels are competent in their Director of the Commercial Fisheries Sec­ ability to carry out their fishing activities. tion ought to have any power to arbitrate The Victorian Professional Fishermen's that issue. Mr Baxter is missing the point. Association, as Mr Knowles pointed out, My understanding and certainly the under­ supports the retention of the two-year pro­ standing of the Victorian Professional Fish­ vision because it attaches some status to the erman's Association and of anyone who has licence and, by the same token, it makes it an understanding of the Master Fisher­ difficult for people to get into the industry. man's Licence, argues strongly that if the The Government does not consider either licence is to have any meaning there ought argument as valid. Actually, this creates a to be a period in which an applicant has closed shop in the industry. served in the commercial fishing industry. The determining of two years' experience That is the basis of the amendment. in professional fishing has proved to be a problem for the division for a long period. I do not wish to labour the point. I am I t is better to allow the Marine Board of disappointed that the Government and the Victoria the responsibility of determining National Party have not seen fit to give cre­ the competence of fishermen. That power dence and some meaning to the Master should remain. Fishermen's Licence. Professional fisher­ men see the licence as being significant and The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ not simply another fishing licence. The lic­ ern Province )-Since the Committee re­ ence means that the successful applicants ported pro~ress early in the evening, I have sought advIce. I have listened to the defence have guaranteed their bona fides by having put up by the Minister. The National Party at least two years' experience as commercial finds itself unable to support the amend­ fishermen. I am disappointed that the Gov­ ment because it believes the Opposition has ernment and the National Party have not to some extent misinterpreted the provi­ recognized the significance of the licence. sions of the Act. The Committee divided on the question It is the understanding of the National that the paragraph proposed by Mr Knowles Party that when the criterion of two years' to be omitted stand part of the clause (the experience was inserted in the Act, it was Hon. K. I. M. Wright in the chair). something of a grandfather clause which en­ abled people who had been in the industry Ayes 23 for many years, and who perhaps were not Noes .. 17 in a position to take an examination to cer­ tify them as competent and licensed or Majority against the whatever, to be in charge of a boat. Those amendment 6 days have passed and the people coming into the industry have adequate opportu­ AYES nity of sitting for the required examina­ MrAmold Mr Mackenzie tions. The National Party sees no reason for Mr Baxter MrMcArthur the provision to be retained. The Opposi­ Mr Butler MrMier tion is under a misapprehension. The Nat­ Mrs Coxsedge MrMurphy ional Party does not dispute the bona fide MrsDixon Mr Pullen reasons for moving the amendment. MrDunn MrSandon MrEvans MrSgro The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat MrKennan MrWalker Province)-I am disappointed that both the MrKennedy MrWhite Minister and Mr Baxter have responded in MrKent Tellers: that way. The Minister still has not con­ MrsKimer MrHenshaw fronted the crux of the amendment. As I Mr Landeryou Mrs Hogg 1104 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill

NOES scenario is not correct, I ask the Minister to Mrs Baylor MrHoughton explain the basis of including the word .Mr Birrell MrHunt "substantially" in section 16 (28) of the Mr Block MrRadford principal Act. Mr Bubb MrReid Mr Chamberlain Mr Storey The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister MrCrozier MrWard for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-The MrGranter Tellers: clause amends section 16 (2A) and (28) and MrGuest MrKnowles enables the Director of Fisheries and Wild­ Mr Hayward Mr Lawson life to apply the show cause provisions of PAIR the Act specifically to endorsements issued Mr Murphy Mr Long for a licence where the holder of the licence with such an endorsement has ceased to be The clause was agreed to, as were clauses actively, regularly and substantially en­ 7 and 8. gaged in commercial fishing under the en­ Clause 9 dorsement. Mr Knowles is concerned that The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat either the Government or the director may Province)-During the second reading de­ use this provision retrospectively. bate, I raised a query and I would appreci­ The Hon. R. I. Knowles-That is the con­ ate the Minister for Conservation, Forests cern of the fishing industry. and Lands responding to it. Clause 9 amends The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE-I assure section 16 (28) of the principal Act, which the honourable member that it is not the states: intention of the Government to use the pro­ The provisions of sub-section (2A) shall not apply to vision retrospectively. The provision will or with respect to a licence held by any person at the apply when the Act is proclaimed and it will commencement of section 5 of the Fisheries Act 1975 apply to licences that will be renewed three or to any renewal of that licence where the licensee has been actively and regularly engaged in commercial years from now. For instance, the show fishing since the said commencement whether or not cause provision will apply to a renewal of he has been so engaged in all fisheries in respect of the 1983 licence in 1986, when the licence which he is licensed. endorsement will be reviewed if the licence holder is not able to indicate substantial in­ Clause 9 inserts the word "substantially". It volvement in the industry. I assure the hon­ is the concern of the fishing industry that ourable member that the provision will not the Government will use the clause to take apply to licences, for example, obtained over away licences held by those who held lic­ the past three years. ences prior to 1974 and who have been reg­ ularly and actively engaged in the industry The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat but who may not necessarily have been sub­ Province)-I thank the Minister for Con­ stantially involved. The clause was origi­ servation, Forests and Lands for his re­ nally inserted to provide some guarantee to sponse. I understand that the fishing those people who held fishing licences in industry will accept that assurance. The 1975. The fear is that the Government will fishing industry had the real fear that the use the clause to take away those licences provision, once enacted, would be used to from people, who, within the existing pro­ disadvanta$e those in the industry who have visions of the Act, are entitled to hold the been meetIng all of the present require­ licences. ments of the Act. The Minister's assurance will provide some comfort to the industry I raised this matter earlier and, in re­ that the clause will apply from the time of sponse to clause 2, the Minister suggested the proclamation of the Bill and that it will that I had misunderstood the implications. not cover any of the period up until then. However, I do not believe any interpreta­ tion can be placed on the effect of clause 9 The clause was agreed to. other than that the Government will retro­ Clause 10 spectively judge those who have held lic­ The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat ences legitimately in accordance with the Province)-I expressed the view in the sec­ Act and will now apply a different criteria. ond-reading debate that the Opposition does In 1975, licence holders were assured that not accept any justification for the introd­ different criteria would not apply. If my uction of an amateur fishing licence for those Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1105 who wish to catch yabbies. The Minister for ports the amendment. It cannot be Conservation, Forests and Lands stated that contended that the yabby is an endangered the application of a licence would provide species. Yabbies virtually border on being resources to run a management pro­ vermin in irrigation districts where they gramme. That is absolute hogwash. The only cause many thousands of dollars worth of justification the Government has for this damage by burrowing under and round provision is its attempt to raise revenue. concrete structures in irrigation channels. In many areas of the State, yabbies are an Also, they cause earthern embankments to absolute pest. To insist on the purchase of fall in farm dams. All in all, yabbies are a an amateur fishing licence to catch yabbies very expensive pest on many properties in is absurd. Yabbies should be exempted from Victoria. the provisions requiring an amateur fishing People should be encouraged to take yab­ licence. Accordingly, I move: bies from the water by the usual means. Yabbying is an activity engaged in socially Clause 10, line 19, omit ",yabbies". and I do not believe an argument can be The Hon. J. W. S. RADFORD (Bendigo sustained for one moment that people Province)-An important principle is in­ should be compelled to purchase an ama­ volved in this clause. It is remarkable for teur fishing licence simply to enable them any Government to suggest that any boy to go yabbying. Yabbies are not a scarce over 16 years who wishes to catch yabbies species. There is no management of the must firstly obtain an amateur fishing lic­ yabbies as such by the Minister's depart­ ence to go down to a local dam or a local ment. creek to catch yabbies. It is even more ludi­ The Hon. R. A. ~ackenzie-N 0 money! crous in the context that one day that boy The Hon. W. R. BAXTER-I do not may become an aged pensioner and he will think the Minister will contemplate it for then be able to freely catch yabbies without the future, even ifhe has the money. There the need for an amateur fishing licence. is no guarantee that if people were com­ Yabbies are not an endangered species. pelled to buy a licence to enable them to go Not once has the Minister for Conserva­ yabbying that revenue would be spent on tion, Forests and Lands referred to the yabby farmmg the yabby population. as an endangered species. He has put no Perhaps in some waters in Victoria yab­ evidence to the Committee that the unre­ bies are being taken in large numbers for stricted catching of yabbies would in any commercial use. If that is so, the National way lead to an extermination of the yabby Party would not object if the Minister were population. to initiate legislation to contain the com­ Catching yabbies is a social aspect of Aus­ mercial exploitation of yabbies. tralian life and I recall participating in many a yabby party resulting in the boiling up of The Minister may well claim that in cer­ the catch in a 4 gallon kerosene tin. Boys of tain water-ways it is. However, the Govern­ all ages enjoy fresh yabbies. ment should not legislate to inhibit the normal, everyday activities of the average TheHon.~.J.Sandon-VVhataboutthe citizen who derives some pleasure and ben­ girls? efit from yabbying in order to control a few The Hon. J. W. S. RADFORD-I am isolated incidents. The National Party sup­ certain that the girls enjoy fresh yabbies, ports the proposed amendment. too. Yabbies are an epicurean delight. How­ ever, the Minister and his petty cent-pinch­ The Hon. R. A. ~ACKENZIE (Minister ing Government are trying to derive extra for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-The funds from the catching of yabbies. Government rejects the proposed amend­ ment. Indeed, I almost feel like throwing it The Government is simply trying to im­ back, so to speak. The Bill, if passed, will pose another form of taxation on the com­ require that persons who fish for yabbies munity. I ask the Committee to reject out and freshwater crayfish should hold an am­ of hand the heinous provision for taxing the ateur fishing licence. The Bill is aimed at catching of yabbies. improving the poor state of the freshwater The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ crayfish resource and the fact that the Fish­ ern Province)-The National Party sup- eries and VVildlife Division is required to 1106 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill conduct research into yabbies. A research never appeared to be a selfish person, but if programme has been instigated. The re­ he wants to keep all of the yabbies in his search division is also responsible for en­ dams on his property and deny young chil­ forcing gear limitations and the marking of dren throughout the State the right to fish equipment, as well as preventing yabbies for yabbies, let it be on his conscience. from being taken for sale by unlicensed fish­ ermen. Although that may not be a problem The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat in the area represented by Mr Dunn, there Province)-I freely admit that it would be are other areas of the State where there is a at least fifteen years since I attempted to problem. catch a yabby. I do not believe I have any vested interest in fishin~ for yabbies. In all The Hon. W. V. Houghton-What is the seriousness, if the Minister for Conserva­ problem? tion, Forests and Lands is saying that Vic­ The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE-Yab­ toria needs a management plan for yabbies, bies are being taken in large quantities, and the priorities of the Government are totally people such as Mr Radford, who wishes to skew-whiff. If a management plan for yab­ go with his four-gallon drums and sit by the bies is a high priority plan for the Govern­ river bank, will be without a resource to do ment, it does not have its feet anywhere so if yabbies continue to be taken in large near the ground. quantities. If there is one thing that is in plentiful The organized anglers and the recrea­ supply, it is yabbies. The Minister has said tional fishermen's clubs support the need that there are areas where the yabbies are for the management of the yabby resource. almost an endan$ered species. However, They have requested the Fisheries and that was a generahzation because the Min­ Wildlife Division to carry out management ister did not specify to which areas he was plans to ensure that the humble yabby is referring. As Mr Baxter indicated, if the available in the waters of the State. The Minister is able to return to Parliament and Government has been requested by fisher­ inform honourable members that there is a men to establish a management regime to crisis in some area because all of the yabbies ensure the continuation of yabbies. The es­ have been taken, Parliament should re-ex­ tablishment of that management requires amine the matter. funds and, to obtain the funds, the Govern­ ment needs to establish a licence system. If I am disappointed that the Minister has Mr Dunn wishes to keep all of his yabbies not been a little more frank with the Com­ in his dam and not give a hoot about what mittee and acknowledged that the proposed happens in the rest of the State, that is his measure is nothin~ more than a tax. The prerogative. If the Committee accepts the Minister is determined to try to ~et hold of proposed amendment, that is what will as much money as he can, so he IS insisting happen. Without a proper management plan on a licence for everyone-who is not un­ and management regime, the yabbies will der sixteen years of age or a pensioner­ disappear from many parts of Victoria. who wishes to catch a few yabbies. The Hon. W. R. Baxter-Rubbish! Although it is a matter that the Commit­ tee can be fairly frivolous about, it does ap­ The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE-If Mr pear to be a classic example of bureaucracy Baxter wants that on his conscience, so be gone berserk. it. I do not want it on my conscience. The Government will fight for the humble yabby. The Hon. B. P. DUNN (North Western Under the Bill, young persons under sixteen Province)-Ever since man walked on the years of age and pensioners will still be able earth in Australia, he has caught yabbies to to enjoy the social benefits described by Mr survive. Yabbies are a native species to Radford. Australia and they are in plentiful supply. The Government rejects the proposed The Government, through the Bill, is amendment. I am disappointed that an trying to prevent a section of the Australian honourable member, such as Mr Knowles, community from experiencing part of their who enjoys a good social outing, could be heritage-one of the few parts of their heri­ the author of such an amendment. Mr Dunn tage that is still open to them. Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1107

The Minister for Conservation, Forests I appeal to those members of the Labor and Lands is asking the Committee to raise Party who have children, or who have been funds for research for the continuation of children, to remember and show a little yabbies through a "protect the yabby cam­ heart, and to vote with the Opposition and paign". There has been no evidence pro­ the National Party for the elimination of duced by the Minister, who has been long this iniquitous clause. on rhetoric and short on facts. The Minister has not presented any facts to the Commit­ The Hon. W. V. HOUGHTON (Temple­ tee on where the yabbies are being fished stowe Province)-The problem with the out. There are plenty of yabbies around. Minister is that he has been listening to the No-one would condone the taking of large Fisheries and Wildlife Division officers who quantities of yabbies for commercial pur­ claim that they want funds for research to poses unless the fishermen were either li­ investigate the raising of yabbies. It is true censed or had a licence to sell yabbies. that the commercial raising of yabbies is an However, the Committee is discussing the industry in Victoria, but it is also true that average citizen fishing for yabbies. more is known about yabbies by the com­ mercial fisheries industry than the Fisheries The Hon. A. J. Hunt-Kids! and Wildlife Division officers know or need The Hon. B. P. DUNN-Young persons to know. and families. If the Bill is passed, they will Yabbies are not only known to Victoria not be able to go yabbying. but are widespread throughout Australia. There is no way that the yabby will become The Hon. R. A. Mackenzie-Yes, they an endangered species. People can go to the will. muddy creeks and rivers of New South The Hon. B. P. DUNN-They will have Wales and fish for yabbies to their hearts' to have a licence to do it. It is a straight out content and in no time they will get a buck­ tax! etful. To suggest that the species needs pro­ tection and research other than by those One could apply a tax such as that to who are engaged in the commercial yabby almost any commodity that people enjoy. industry for the lucrative overseas market Some people might enjoy hunting for witch­ is nonsense. To suggest further that a lic­ etty grubs. The Government could put a tax ence should be imposed to restrict-the social on those people through imposing a licence enjoyment of children and families in this fee. healthy outdoor sport is also ridiculous. The National Party supports the pro­ I suggest that the Minister should use the posed amendment. The National Party be­ rational brain that he has and accept the lieves fishing for yabbies is part of traditIOnal suggestion of Mr Knowles and the amend­ life in Australia. It is enjoyed by many thou­ ments that he proposes. sands of people from their childhood through to their adulthood. They do not The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister abuse the system by taking tens of thou­ for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-In sands ofyabbies. If there are people who are response to honourable members' argu­ abusing It and taking excessive quantities, ments, I point out that it is not true that I let the Minister supply the evidence to the would stand before the Committee and sug­ Committee and the National Party will ex­ gest a money-grabbing exercise purely to amine it. However, in the meantime, the raise finance from yabbies. I am trying to Committee should not try to impose fees demonstrate-and Mr Houghton pointed it upon individuals who enjoy a bit of fun, out-that one can go anywhere in New and outdoor life, which is one of the few South Wales and pick up a bucketful ofyab­ traditional aspects of Australian life still bies. I note that he did not suggest doing it open to them. in Victoria. I remind Mr Houghton of the story of the passenger pigeons in the United The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern States of America that used to darken the Province)-I could not imagine anything sky in their millions and were all wiped out less appropriate for a decision on party lines in ten years because of lack of control. than the question of whether a licence The amendment that the Government is should be needed to catch yabbies. suggesting is not made at the request of the 1108 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill

Fisheries and Wildlife Division officers. It Mr Sgro Tellers: is a fact that the Victorian Piscatorial Coun­ MrWalker Mr Kennedy cil and the fisherman's advisory council MrWhite Mrs Kirner have supported the need for research. Mr NOES Knowles said it is a terrible thing for the Mr Baxter MrGuest Government to be giving a high priority to Mrs Baylor Mr Hayward the management ofyabbies. I am not saying Mr Birrell Mr Houghton. it is a high priority but certainly, as honour­ MrBlock Mr Hunt able members have pointed out, the Gov­ Mr Bubb MrKnowles ernment does not want to see the enjoyment Mr Chamberlain Mr Lawson of fishing for yabbies destroyed and for peo­ MrConnard MrStorey ple to be denidl that enjoyment if the stage MrCrozier MrWard MrDunn Tellers: is reached that they are endangered. Mr Evans Mr Radford While Mr Dunn may have many yabbies MrGranter MrReid in his electorate and Mr Knowles may have PAIR a few around Ballarat, there are areas in Mr Murphy Mr Long Victoria where yabbies are becoming over­ exploited. Mr Houghton was a previous Minister for Conservation and he knows The clause, as amended, was adopted. about the provision of proper management Clause II plans to ensure that a fishing resource is well managed and that it can continue on a The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat sustained yield basis so that generation after Province)-This clause abolishes the inter­ generation can continue to use that re­ state licences. Mr Baxter indicated the sig­ source. nificant problems in border areas with The proposed clause is trying to control regard to fishing licences. In another place, yabbies to ensure that they will continue to the honourable member for Benambra made thrive and I believe honourable members a very strong case that if the reciprocity be­ tween States is to be eliminated, that at least are completely misguided in their attitude there be recognition in Victoria of amateur to the matter. I hope they will change their fishing licences for waters that cross State views and vote against the amendment pro­ boundaries so the unfortunate situation is posed by Mr Knowles. avoided where a person who has a New The CHAIRMAN (the Hon. K. I. M. South Wales fishing licence and who, in the Wright)-Mr Knowles has moved amend­ course of the day's fishing inadvertently ment No. 2 and I remind the Committee crosses the border, may be found by a Vic­ that this amendment No. 3 is contingent torian fishing inspector to be without a Vic­ upon amendment No. 2. torian fishing licence, even though it was not that person's intention to break the law. The Committee divided on the Question The Minister handling this Bill in an­ that the word proposed by Mr Knowles to other place indicated, in response to the be omitted stand part of the clause (the Hon. honourable member for Benambra, that he K. I. M. Wright in the chair). would take up the matter with the Minister Ayes 19 as to whether there was some way the Gov­ Noes 21 ernment could alleviate what is otherwise a difficult problem. That does not canvass the Majority for the amendment 2 issue as to whether, despite the fact that other States have not recognized Victorian AYES fishing licences, it could be a plus for tour­ Mr Arnold Mr Kent ism in Victoria if the stupidity of fishing Mr Butler Mr Landeryou licences not being applicable over State bor­ Mrs Coxsedge Mr Mackenzie ders were eliminated. Mrs Dixon Mr McArthur MrHenshaw MrMier The Opposition recognizes that someone Mrs Hogg Mr Pullen who is licensed to drive a motor vehicle in MrKennan MrSandon any other State is eligible to drive a motor Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1109

vehicle in Victoria and it is absurd that in a Wales waters. New South Wales waters can situation where a person has bought a fish­ be defined, and it would mean that although ing licence, he not be entitled to fish any­ Victorian fishermen have paid for a licence where in Australia. The difficulty is created on the Victorian side and another on the in waters such as Lake Hume, where people New South Wales side, the fishermen from buy a fishing licence before they leave to go New South Wales would have a decided fishing, with the clear intention of remain­ advantage in being able to fish in Victorian ing in a lawful situation but during the pe­ waters virtually for nothing. riod they are fishing they stray into Victorian As the Minister handling the Bill in an­ waters and are liable to be prosecuted under other place indicated, I went to the depart­ Victorian law because they do not have a ment and gathered information in that Victorian licence. Given that the Minister regard and discussed that point with officers handling the Bill in another place indicated of that department who recommended that that the Government would review that cir­ this amendment should remain as it is be­ cumstance, I ask for the Minister's response fore the Committee ,od I agreed with those to the suggestions that have been made. recommendations. The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-The The clause was agreed to. honourable member is well aware of the Clause 12 history in regard to this section of the Act The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat and that in 1980 the Victorian Govern­ Province)-I move: ment, mainly under pressure from local members, the Honourable Lou Lieberman Clause 12, page 4, line 30, omit", yabbies". and Alan Wood, agreed to recognize unilat­ This amendment is consequential to my erally interstate licences in the belief that previous amendment. this would pressure the New South Wales Government to follow suit. This did not The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister happen. New South Wales reiterated its for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-I previous stand, that Victoria should make was going to put out a feeler on this clause, up the shortfall in licence revenue. The ex­ but in an endeavour to scale down the de­ ercise achieved nothing for Victorian resi­ bate, I have decided to finish discussing the dents, in fact, it cost the State at least matter. $25000 in lost revenue and the Cabinet The amendment was agreed to, and the agreed, in 1981, to reimburse the Fisheries clause, as amended, was adopted, as were Fund for the $25 000 lost. clauses 13 to 15. A further approach was then made to the New South Wales Government suggesting Clause 16 that the recognition of interstate licences The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat apply only to Lake Mulwala and Lake Province)-During the second-reading de­ Hume. This was rejected on the ground that bate I raised some concerns about this the revenue lost would still be significant, clause. The clause allows for a fee not ex­ but the New South Wales Government sug­ ceeding $5000 to be prescribed for the gested that Victoria could recognize New transfer or assignment of licences. During South Wales licences in the Victorian sec­ the debate, I suggested the clause could be tion of the lakes. This would mean that a used as the basis for the power to establish New South Wales fisherman could fish a fee in the transfer of abalone licences once wherever he wished in those lakes and he the Government introduces the proposed would also be in competition with Victo­ legislation to allow the transferability of rian fishermen. those licences. The Opposition is now suggesting that the The Minister said that was not true. It is interstate licence recognition clause should outrageous that a fee of up to $5000 will be remain in force in Lake Hume and Lake imposed for the transfer of licences. The Mulwala. The Government believes that if principle ought to be that the fee set for the that does happen Victorian fishermen would transfer of licences should relate to the cost still require New South Wales fishing lic­ of the administration involved in those ences if they wanted to fish in New South transfers. There ought not to be a capital 1110 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill cost involved simply to have the licence Why should someone who is simply en­ transferred. . tering the industry be up for a huge up-front The return to the Government on the en­ transfer fee which wiH only encourage the titlement for retaining a particular resource over-exploitation of our fishing resources? or a reasonable return to the community The annual licence fee should be accurately should be established in the annual licence fair and provide a fair return to the State to fee, not in a capital cost fee, which simply undertake research and so on, yet the clause allows someone to enter the industry. The allows the Government to make a one-off Minister indicated in his response to clause up-front charge for the transfer of licences. 2 that my comments were not pertinent to The cost of that transfer should be no the abalone industry. I invite the Minister more than the cost of the administration in­ to explain to the Committee the circum­ volved in the transfer of the licence. A per­ stances that justify prescribing a fee of up to son should not have to pay a fee to obtain a $5000 for the transfer or assignment of a licence and then pay an annual fee on top licence. of that. The provision is based on a com­ The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister pletely wrong premise. I seek the Minister's for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-The assurance that although the figure men­ fishing resource like other resources such as tioned is $5000, the actual amount set will timber, which also comes under my portfo­ bear some relationship to the cost involved lio, is to be obtained by commercial opera­ in the administration of the transfer and tors. Those industries are owned and will not represent an up-front payment sim­ controlled almost entirely by the State. In ply to get into the industry after which the other words, those resources belong to the licence bearer will have to pay an ongoing people of Victoria. annual licence fee. Those who wish to utilize those resources The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister for commercial benefit or ~in should pay a for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-One just or proper return to VIctorians for that of the reasons for higher transfer fees being right. The clause endeavours to ensure that imposed is to establish in some way the sufficient funds are made available to the bona fides of a person who wishes to enter managers of that resource to ensure, as in the fishing industry by the transfer or as­ the timber industry, that the resource is signment of a licence. It is hard to relate the managed, controlled, protected and re­ figure exactly to administrative costs which searched in such a way, that it provides a could perhaps be relatively negligible. It has sustained yield that keeps the industry become standard practice in other States and viable, and takes a great deal of money. countries that transfer fees are often of a The people of Victoria are entitled to a magnitude exceeding the $5000 as stated in fair return on the resource that they provide the Bill. to the fishing industry. The abalone indus­ The clause provides for the imposition of try is covered by a separate Bill. I checked a transfer fee not exceeding $5000. That sum with the draftsman responsible for the orig­ has been written into the proposed legisla­ inal drafting of the Bill who assured me that tion because it means that that figure can this clause does not pertain to the abalone remain there for some time before it must licence, which is subject to different provi­ be upgraded due to inflation. It certainly sions. I pass those assurances on to the hon­ does not mean because that fi~ure has been ourable member. included that every transfer Will cost $5000. The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (BaHarat Nevertheless, the imposition of that fee is Province)-The Minister still misses the included so that the fee charged may go up point. I am not suggesting the State oUght to that figure in future. not to set a reasonable fee for access to a The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (BaHarat resource, the provision of funds for the Province)-What an unbelievable response maintenance of that resource, or for re­ by the Minister. The Minister says that a search development, but that is not what person must establish his or her bona fides the Committee is discussing in clause 16. to enter into the fishing industry by having The clause allows the Government to make enough money to pay for the transfer fee. a one-off charge of up to $5000 simply on Fancy a Minister in a Labor Government the transfer of a licence. That is wrong. saying the criterion for entering the fishing Land (Amendment) Bill (No. 2) 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1111 industry is that one has the money to pay, most effective land use. At the same time which establishes one's bona fides! I should some necessary new provisions are being have thought that that comment would have inserted in the principal Act. been absolutely outrageous on any basis. Surely the assessment that ought to be The current Act relating to the sale, leas­ taken into account when someone is enter­ ing or licensing of Crown land does not pro­ ing the industry is that that person has skill, vide the flexibility to deal with Crown land interest and can make a contribution to the in the over-all best interests of the public. industry. Having regard to the current develop­ ment of the State, most of the rural CroWn I am horrified that the Government now land which ought to be alienated having says, "If you have money you can buy your way into the fishing industry, but if you are been so alienated, and the nature of the ur­ a young bloke attempting to develop skills ban lands being dealt with today, it is time because you are interested in the fishing in­ for such laws to be widened to allow opera­ dustry, we are not interested because you tion with modern methods. do not have the money." Those young men The emphasis is on planning and the en­ would have to have a rich uncle because, vironment and a significant proportion of unless they have plenty of money, they will the Crown land being dealt with is im­ be unable to enter the fishing industry. proved re-purchased land. In the light of the That is the most outrageous reason I have foregoing it should be open to the Minister ever heard for the introduction of a clause. to sell, lease or licence land as he sees fit in The cost of the transfer fee should reflect any particular case. only the administrative costs involved in In respect of sale, leasing and licensing the transfer. The annual licence fee should any Qualifications expressed in the principal reflect the worth of those resources to the Act as to how the valuation or rental is de­ State. It should be used in the interests of termined will be deleted. In the case of a the industry and funds should be provided sale a valuation will be sought from the Val­ for research or for maintaining and devel­ uer-General and depending on the value, oping markets for fishery products. I am other licensed valuers, before a price is de­ horrified that the Minister justifies the clause because it establishes bona fides. That is the termined. In the case of a lease or a licence worst way of establishing bona fides be­ a rental considered to be a proper market cause one has to have money before one can rental will be charged. buy a piece of paper from the Government. The leasing and licensing provisions will I urge the Minister to reconsider the clause. not relate to Crown lands reserved for pub­ If that is the sort of criteria that is to be lic purposes except in the case of a valuable used, I urge the Committee to seriously Crown building, the manufacture of salt, consider whether the clause should remain removal of materials from rivers or fossick­ in the Bill. ing for gemstones or other objects. The clause was agreed to, as was the re­ It is proposed that provision be made for maining clause. conditional purchase leases to be issued, for The Bill was reported to the House with local residential or commercial purposes. amendments, and passed through its re­ This provision will replace the archaic maining stages. power for the issue of annual licences under section 138 of the Act with the right to pur­ LAND (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2) chase the freehold. It will also allow for the The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister registration of mortgages. for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-I These leases are really designed to allow move: first home buyers or persons working to es­ tablish local businesses to obtain land un­ That this Bill be now read a second time. der favourable terms. The Bill also contains It is essentially designed to modernize the provisions to allow an existing lessee of any sale, leasing and licensing provisions of the Crown land set apart for industrial or com­ Land Act 1958 to achieve the proper eco­ mercial purposes in the metropolitan area nomic return to the State coupled with the to purchase the freehold of the leased land. 1112 COUNCIL 22 November 19'83 Land (Amendment) Bill (No. 2)

As this action represents a change in pol­ State of about $158 million on 1981 land icy that has existed for almost a century, the values. short history of these metropolitan leases is The Bill authorizes the Minister to enter recited. into a contract for the sale of Crown lease­ In the 1880s the Government of the day hold land in the metropolitan area to the decided that the undeveloped and low-lying present lessee of that land. Leases for the Crown land in the cities of South Mel­ purpose of amusement and recreation are bourne and Port Melbourne should not be specifically excluded from being sold by the sold but rather might be developed under provisions contained in the Bill as these leases to provide a source of revenue to the leaseholds refer to Crown lands which in State in perpetuity. In more recent years, the public interest should not be sold. other Crown land, including some of the former swampy land at West Melbourne and To ensure that the appropriate land use the land now used for oil storage at Spots­ controls will apply and that the Crown re­ wood, was brought into the leasing system. ceives the optimum price in each case where freeholdin~ is proposed, both the Ministry The right to lease the original leaseholds for Plannmg and Environment and the was offered at public auction with renewed Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of or replacement leases being granted to les­ Works will be contacted prior to any sub­ sees to provide a stable and continuing lease mission being made to the Minister for ap­ system. proval to a sale. Leases have been issued for varying pe­ In accordance with Government policy riods ranging up to 50 years or, in cases to grant more competency to municipal where improvements of a substantial na­ councils, a new special provision will em­ ture and high value are erected or are to be power the Minister to sell at such price and erected in compliance with a building cov­ on such terms and conditions as he thinks enant in the lease, between 50 and 99 years. fit any Crown land, not being land within The Crown lands in the system have a the metropolitan area, to a municipality

Nevertheless, my point is whether prior copy of a birth certificate. I have no com­ to the acceptance, projection or alteration plaint about the service that I received there; of the recommendations by the Govern­ the staff were courteous and prompt in their ment, the Minister will arrange for other dealings with the public. To obtain a copy members of Parliament to have an inspec­ of a birth certificate costs $16. tion tour of the area because I believe it is The Hon. B. A. Chamberlain-$18 from the only way for honourable members, par­ next week. ticularly those who represent metropolitan The Hon. ROBERT LA WSON-I have electorates, to appreciate the vastness of the just been informed that it is to be increased area in question and to appreciate that saw­ to $18 next week, so I am glad I performed millers and graziers are not raping the coun­ my business this week. I was informed that tryside, as seems to be the view held by it would take three weeks for a copy of this some people in Melbourne, and that the certificate to become available. Three weeks timber millers and the Forests Commission was too long for my purposes, so I asked if are preserving, enhancing and regenerating it was possible to obtain the certificate that vital part of Victoria through expert, sooner than three weeks. I was informed excellent and careful management? that if I paid another $16 I would receive it I ask the Minister whether he will be good almost immediately. In effect, I paid $32 for enough to make arrangements for a tour of the certificate. inspection by honourable members. I real­ It seems extraordinary that an applicant ize that it is not practicable to have an in­ can jump a queue like this by the payment spection by all honourable members on the of an extra fee. I believe it to be more equi­ one day, because the numbers are too great. table to be fair to everyone, because some There would need to be a couple of alterna­ people cannot afford to pay an extra $16 to tive dates. It is important that honourable obtain the extra service. When I paid the members see the reality of the situation at extra $16, the certificate arrived in the mail first hand before Parliament is asked to pass the following day. People should not have a Bill along the lines suggested by the Land to pay an extra $16 to facilitate the services Conservation Council. of the Government. It should be fair to one The Hon. J. W. S. RADFORD (Bendigo and fair to all, and all should pay the one Province)-I direct the attention of the amount and obtain the same service. Minister for Conservation, Forests and The Hon. M. A. BIRRELL (East Yarra Lands to the funds that have been raised by Province)-My remarks are directed to the a levy of 1 cent a litre on mineral spa water. Minister for Conservation, Forests and The Bill that was passed through this House Lands in his capacity of representing the was designed to raise money to encourage Minister for Property and Services. I wish and expand the tourist industry and the spa to take up with the Government an issue industry in Daylesford. that I first raised on the subject in this House on 9 August and to which I have received Can the Minister inform the House how no reply. The matter is also the subject of a much money has been raised from this levy, question on notice dated 12 October. Once how much has been spent and can he indi­ again I have not received an answer. The cate what value of spending he is going to matter relates to an apparent misuse of undertake in the future? Government facilities by the Australian La­ The Hon. ROBERT LA WSON (Higin­ bor Party, Victorian branch; that is, the pur­ botham Province)-I wish to raise a matter chase and resale of a publication known as in connection with the office of the Regis­ Victorian Government Notes. The public can trar of Births Deaths and Marriages, and I purchase Victorian Government Notes from understand that it is under the care of the the Government Printer for $63 per an­ Minister for Property and Services. There­ num. The Australian Labor Party head­ fore, it is represented in this House by the quarters, however, is able to purchase the Minister for Conservation, Forests and notes for a mere $25 and sells those publi­ Lands, to whom I direct my remarks. cations to members of the Labor Party for Over the past few days I have had occa­ $30, making a $5 profit on each publication. sion to visit the office of the Registrar of I am therefore concerned that a single po­ Births Deaths and Marriages to obtain a litical party has been granted a secret deal 1116 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Adjournment to purchase and resell an official Govern- . Recently I attended a forum at the Heidel­ ment publication at a profit to itself. The berg Town Hall. One of the Minister's col­ failure of the Government to answer the leagues was present and if he were in the allegations I have made in this place, and Chamber he would recall what I am about the question I have placed on notice previ­ to say. The forum was held by region 14 of ously, indicates that it is embarrassed by the the Victorian Council on the Ageing and situation that has been uncovered. there were a vast number of elderly people I call on the Government to make a full present. explanation now and to ensure that no offi­ One of the matters raised, and which Par­ cial publications are available to the Austra­ liamentarians were asked to raise in Parlia­ lian Labor Party any cheaper than they are ment on behalf of these people, was the to members of the public. timing of traffic lights for pedestrians to The Hon. D. M. EV ANS (North Eastern cross roads. All over Melbourne there are Province)-I raise a matter with the Minis­ traffic lights which do not stay green long ter for Conservation, Forests and Lands. I enough, particularly for elderly pedestrians, refer to a document that has come into my to cross a street. One has only to take the hands with regard to the release of rainbow Minister of Transport out to the front of trout and brown trout into Victorian Parliament House to see that even for agile streams in recent weeks, and I gather it is people, the lights in Spring Street do not for the rest of the season. stay green long enough to allow people to cross Spring Street. As I add up the totals, without the benefit of a calculator, I find that" 932 500 brown I ask the Minister to bring this matter to trout fingerlings will be released and only the attention of the Minister of Transport 65 000 of those will be released in north­ on behalf of the elderly people of Victoria. eastern Victoria-Mr Sgro will join me in The Hon. J. V. C. GUEST (Monash this particular matter-and 305 000 rain­ Province)-I raise a matter with the Attor­ bow trout will be released in Victoria, with ney-General and suggest to him that he has only 10 000 being released in north-eastern an opportunity of establishing a precedent Victoria. that will reverberate around the world and I submit to the Minister that the north­ strike a blow for honesty. east of Victoria is a premier trout fishing Over the years, the Minister might have area and a premier tourist area and it is noticed the publication of a number of important that attention be paid to streams books-Erik Von Daniken's works come .such as Tallangatta Creek, the rivers of the readily to mind-which are sold and in­ Upper Murray, the Kiewa River, King volve the taking of money in return for pur­ River, Boggy Creek, which, in response to ported fact when those responsible for the Minister's interjection, has a dam on it, publication well know that the author either Black Range Creek, which has a trout farm knew the alleged facts to be false or knew on it, Fifteen Mile Creek and the Goulburn that the author was indifferent as to their River. truth. I ask the Minister to pay attention to the In recent days, we have become aware of necessity of ensuring that trout fingerlings flagrant disregard of the truth in a book that are released in these streams, some of which has been publicized in the Age. If the infor­ were dry for most of their length during the mation provided by the Age is correct, there last severe drought. I ask the Government, can be no doubt that the publication of the therefore, to consider adequate release of book on the disappearance and something trout to restock the north-eastern Victorian of the history of the late Prime Minister, trout streams. I thank the Minister and Harold Holt, is a fraudulent attempt by one honourable members opposite for rising to knows not whom-perhaps the author who the bait. provided the information or perhaps the The Hon. H. G. BAYLOR (Boronia publishers-to obtain money for something Province)-I direct a matter to the atten­ other than that which the product purports tion of the Minister for Conservation, For­ to provide. ests and Lands in his capacity as a I trust that the Attorney-General-who representative of the Minister of Transport. by his frivolous interjections, is earning Adjournment 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1117 himself the title of principal comedian and the matter could be attended to, given the chief clown for the Government-will take workload of the Ministry. seriously the matter of persons obtaining In those circumstances, Mr Joe Public, money by fraudulent means. who resorts to the Ministry, is left without It is fraudulent to put forward as fact protection and is faced with a letter of de­ something that one knows to be untrue or mand from an interstate firm of solicitors. as to the veracity of which one is indifferent. By the time the Ministry gets around to I ask the Attorney-General whether he dealing with the matter, the person con­ has considered examining the existing proc­ cerned is likely to have received a sum­ esses of the criminal or civil law-nothing mons. At that .point, it becomes more involving an injunction or any inhibition of difficult to negotiate. free speech, but the existing processes of the Firstly, I ask the Minister to request his law-to determine whether they may be colleague to direct the attention of the pub­ used against such publications on the as­ lic to these fraudulent practices and, sec­ sumption that I have made of their being ondly, to give consideration to improving purported fact although not correct; if not, the staffing of his Ministry so that it can will he do so? handle issues promptly. The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN The Hon. G. P. CONNARD (Higin­ (Western Province)-I bring to the atten­ botham Province)-I direct the attention of tion of the Attorney-General, who is the the Minister for Conservation, Forests and representative in this House of the Minister Lands to a matter of concern to the Beau­ of Consumer Affairs, what appears to be a maris community and especially to the growing fraud concerning demands being made on traders in respect of advertise­ Beaumaris High School council. ments in bogus or genuine journals when Adjacent to that school is an area of 2 the advertisements have not been ordered hectares of native heath land currently by the person to whom the account is di­ owned by the Education Department, which rected. The ploy appears to be that an ac­ apparently has recently been recommended count is sent to a busy firm. The account for disposal by the south central region of confirms a telephone order that was pur­ the department. The area concerned is of portedly made to place an advertisement. unique conservation and environmental The account is something like the one that education importance. It contains at least I have before me from a New South Wales fourteen indigenous plant species not found firm called Agricultural Digest to a constit­ elsewhere in the locality, despite the exist­ uent of mine, billing him for $175.50 and ence in the locality of several other small confirming that Mr So-and-So had ordered pockets of native bushland. The plants the advertisement to be placed during the found there include the acacia implexa, week ended 9 July 1982. The first account acacia mearnsii, acacia melanoxylon, the arrived some months after that date. In this gnat orchid, the green comb spider orchid, case, no communication was made to the cassinia arcuata, the gorse bitter-pea, the person concerned at all. That was followed great parrot-pea, the wax-lip orchid and by a letter of demand from a firm of Sydney other species. These are unique and valua­ solicitors requesting that the sum of $175 ble specimens in the bayside area. plus $20 costs be forwarded. An active community group has been From reports in the community, this working there during 1983 to reduce the in­ practice appears to be widespread. I ask the festation of coastal ti-tree, a fire-prone Minister to request his colleague to warn coastal species that has invaded some sec­ the public about this issue. tions of the area. There is another aspect to the matter. In I understand that application is being this instance, a complaint was made to the made to both the National Trust of Victoria Director of Consumer Affairs by letter dated and the Victorian National Estate Commit­ 7 November. The response was a card from tee to achieve classification of this impor­ the Ministry, dated 15 November, stating tant heathland zone. It is interesting that that the correspondence had been received the Ministry for Conservation's Discussion and would be attended to but that there Paper on a State Conservation Strategy, may be a delay of up to four weeks before which was published in August 1983, sup- 1118 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Adjournment

ported the retention of areas such as this. It promotion. Substantial funding was held off would be a loss to the whole community, until after the preparation of a detailed de­ not only the community of Beaumaris, if velopment programme. this area were to be destroyed. The com­ The programme was drawn up in March munity would like to see this valuable asset this year and a budget for 1983-84 was ap­ retained. proved in June. The budget was based on The school has written to the Minister of the approximate income derived in 1982 Education about the recommendation of the from the mineral water surcharge. A total of south central region concerning the dis­ $316 000 was allocated, leaving about posal of the land but has yet to receive a $300 000 in reserve. The development pro­ reply. The school council would like addi­ gramme will be staged over five years. This tional funding to be made available by the year's programme launches several long­ Ministry for Conservation to enable this term and short-term projects, including the land to be conserved, to encourage com­ development of tourism, accommodation, munity involvement in it and to use it for a landscape design service, a walking trail environmental education. system and upgrading of selected mineral I accordingly request the Minister to ex­ spring reserves. These projects are detailed amine the matter and perhaps to consult in the document "Mineral Springs Devel­ with the Minister of Education to prevent opment Program for 1983/84". Copies have the disposal of the land at least until he has been made available in Daylesford and will had adequate time to examine the matter continue to be made available on request. properly. The honourable member is at liberty to have a copy of the project. The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for Mr Lawson raised a matter for the atten­ Planning and Environment)-Mr Baxter tion of the 'Minister for Property. and Serv­ asked me to arrange for other honourable ices on the cost of birth certIficates. He members to tour the areas involved in the indicated that people pay a fee of$16 or $18 recommendations concerning the alpine if they are prepared to wait for the docu­ area. I agree that that would be worth while ments to be sent to them, but if they pay an in assessing those recommendations. I will additional $16 they can have them almost have a word with my colleague, the Minis­ immediately. I do not understand the rea­ ter for Conservation, Forests and Lands on son for the double charge for immediate the matter as he and I are both involved. delivery. I will make inquiries of the Min­ I indicate to Mr Baxter that there will be ister to determine why that occurs. a tour of politicians on horseback in a cou­ Mr Birrell raised the issue of some bar­ ple of weeks' time relating to a considera­ gain priced publication "Victorian Govern­ tion of grazing issues. It will not cover a ment Notes" that the Australian Labor Party large area. I agree with Mr Baxter's view seems to be able to obtain, but which the that tours are useful when decisions of this Liberal Party is not able to obtain. I recall kind need to be made. I will discuss the him raising that matter earlier and I am matter with my colleague and ascertain what surprised and concerned that he has not re­ can be arranged. ceived a reply because I referred that matter The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister to the MinIster concerned. I will take up the for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-Mr matter again and ensure that he receives an Radford asked me to provide him with in­ answer and a reason why this has occurred. formation concerning the funds that have Mr Evans referred to a release of rainbow been derived from the levy on mineral trout and brown trout and wanted to know water. why north-eastern Victoria was not allo­ Originally it was intended that the sur­ cated a greater release of trout than other charge would generate no more than $50 ()()() areas. I do not know why, but I will make per annum. However, income has grown inquiries of my department to establish the beyond the early expectations to a total of reasons and inform him whether the level $770000 in three years. In order to use this of release can be increased in his electorate. income wisely the committee commis­ Mrs Baylor raised a matter for the atten­ sioned a strategy plan in 1982 to identify tion of the Minister of Transport relating to projects and priorities for development and what she considers to be a short period in Questions on Notice 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1119

which pedestrians have to cross roads at marks of the Attorney-General are ob­ traffic lights. She was particularly concerned viously intended offensively and I take them for elderly people and has noticed that el­ to be offensive. They are also untrue and I derly people outside Parliament House have am dismayed that the Attorney-General difficulty crossing the street in the time al­ should have such little regard for the truth. lowed by the lights. I will have that matter I am not a contibutor to the Toorak Times. investigated by the Minister of Transport I severed my connection with that newspa­ and give her a reply. per nearly a year ago. In addition, what I Mr Connard made an interesting com­ wrote in that paper was not untrue. ment on a small parcel ofland in Beaumaris The Hon. J. H. KENNAN-I accept Mr which, from his description and the plants Guest's explanation. I apologize to him for he listed, certainly appears to be an interest­ any offence caused. I am delighted to hear ing, if not unique, parcel of land in that his explanation. It is a pity he did not make area. I should like him to advise me with it earlier. I have not given consideration to some details about its location. I will cer­ the matters he raised. tainly take up the matter. Funds are avail­ Mr Chamberlain raised a serious matter able from time to time for projects of small that is worthy of early attention of the Min­ and valuable parcels of bush land reserves. I ister. I shall endeavour to direct it to his will determine whether it can be fitted in attention tomorrow and certainly under­ with our priorities, if it is considered to be take to ask the Minister to take at least the of sufficient value to be purchased. I should first step that Mr Chamberlain su~ested di­ appreciate the honourable member provid­ recting the public's attention to thiS matter. ing more details on that matter. I should be grateful if Mr Chamberlain The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ would provide me with the material he has General)-The matter raised by Mr Guest to support his allegations. reminded me of something I said in my The Hon. B. A. Chamberlain-It is in the maiden speech. One of my colleagues said department reference. that people in political life need a finely de­ The Hon. J. H. KENNAN-If Mr veloped sense of the ridiculous. I must say Chamberlain has any other material on the I found it extraordinary for such a promoter extra staff needed to speed up the process I and supporter of, and contributor to the should be grateful to receive it. I am sure scurrilous newspaper, as Mr Guest often that is a matter that is dear to the heart of does-- the Minister of Consumer Affairs. The Hon. J. V. C. GUEST (Monash The motion was agreed to. Province)-On a point of order, the re- The House adjourned at 11.7 p. m.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

SCHOOL CYCLIC MAINTENANCE The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for Planning and Environment)-The answer (Question No. 150) supplied by the Minister of Education is The Hon. ROBERT LA WSON (Higin­ lengthy and statistical and I seek leave of botham Province) asked the Minister for the House to have it incorporated in H an­ Planning and Environment, for the Minis­ sard without my reading it. ter of Education: Leave was granted, and the answer was as (a) What tenders were let for school cyclic mainte­ follows: nance during April, May, June, July and August 1982, respectively, in Higinbotham Province? The following information indicates which schools in the Higinbotham Province had tenders let for cyclic (b) What were the comparable figures for the same maintenance in the April-August period for 1981 and months in 1981? 1982. 1120 COUNCIL 22 November 1983 Questions on Notice

Ensign; Orbost Mail; Geelong Advertiser; Albury Bor­ School Name Project Tender Let der Mail; Latrobe Valley Express; Ballarat Courier; Bendigo Advertiser; Warmambool Standard; Hor­ Beaumaris H.S. External Maintenance July 1982 sham Mail Times; Mildura Sunraysia Daily; Sheppar­ Black Rock P.S. External Maintenance May 1982 ton News; Hamilton Spectator; Dandenong Journal; Brighton P.S. Internal and External April 1982 Frankston Standard. Maintenance (Infant Block) PERSONS IN POST-SECONDARY Moorabbin West Internal and External May 1982 EDUCATION Special Maintenance Brighton H.S. May 1981 (Question No. 305) Eastmoor P.S. External Maintenance April 1981 Hampton P.S. External Maintenance August 1981 The Hon. M. A. BIRRELL (East Yarra Moorabbin P.S. External Maintenance August 1981 Province) asked the Minister for Planning and Environment, for the Minister of Edu­ cation: STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION REPORT AND PUBLICATIONS (a) How many persons in Victoria were aged 17, 18, 19,20,21,22,23, and 24, respectively, at the date of (Question No. 202) the last census? The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN (b) What percentage of the total population does (Western Province) asked the Minister for each such group represent? Minerals and Energy: (c) How many persons in each of those age groups (a) What was the cost of producing the "State Elec­ were engaged in full or part-time post-secondary edu­ tricity Commission report to the people of Victoria" cation at the date of the last census? and what was the cost of publishing that report? (d) What percentage of each of those age groups do (b) In particular, what was the cost of publications those persons represent? which appeared in the "Reader's Digest" and "The Bulletin?" The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for Planning and Environment)-The answer (c) In what other newspapers and publications did supplied by the Minister of Education is: the report appear, and on how many occasions? (a), (b). The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for Estimated Resident Population-Victoria selected Minerals and Energy)-The answer is: ages and total persons, 30 June 1981. (a) The cost of producing the "State Electricity Commission Report to the People of Victoria" was $10700.00 and the cost of publishing was $35311.00. Age Number of Per-Percent of all This was carried out in accordance with the commis­ sons Persons sions's charter "to facilitate public involvement in the activities of the co'mmission and the promotion of 17 69554 1·76 community awareness and comment on the commis­ sion's activities, future plans objectives and func­ 18 70972 1·80 tions". 19 70681 1·79 70938 1·80 (b) The cost of pUblication in the Victorian editions 20 of "Reader's Digest" and "The Bulletin" was 21 69215 1·75 $25 185.00. 22 68565 1·74 (c) The report also appeared once only in the Victo­ 23 66724 1·69 rian editions of "Time", "Newsweek" and "Business 24 65738 1·67 Bulletin". The report did not appear in newspapers, however, a summary of the State Electricity Commis­ All Persons 3946917 100·00 sion Annual Report appeared in the following news­ papers: Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics, Estimated Resident Population by Sex and Age: States Two insertions- and Territories ofAustralia, June 1977 to June Melbourne Age; Melbourne Herald; The Australian 1982, catalogue No. 3201.0. (Victorian Edition). (c), (d). One insertion- Persons engaged in full-time or part-time post-sec­ Melbourne Sun; Warragul Gazette; Bairnsdale Ad­ ondary education (a), selected ages and total persons vertiser; Colac Herald; Swan Hill Guardian; Benalla 1981 academic year, Victoria. Questions on Notice 22 November 1983 COUNCIL 1121

Total post secondary students as percent- age of all persons of Age Part-time Full-time total that age

17 12 147 10 216 22363 32·2 18 15 193 14210 29403 41·4 19 13779 12841 26620 37·7 20 10 618 10 329 20947 29·5 21 8353 6674 15027 21·7 22 7015 4016 11 031 16-1 23 6382 2430 8812 13·2 24 6063 1 702 7765 11·8 All Students 170019 70282 240301

Note: (a) Post secondary education comprises universities, CAE's, and TAFE colleges (streams 1 to 5). Sources: A.B.S., University Statistics, Australia, 1981, catalogue No. 4208.0. A.B.S., Colleges ofAdvanced Education, Australia, 1981, catalogue No. 4206.0. T AFE Board, T.A.F.E. Victoria, Annual Statistical Collection, Students-1981. A.B.S., unpublished data.

CITY OF RICHMOND BOARD OF The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ INQUIRY General)-The answer is: (Question No. 306)

The Hon. N. B. REID (Bendigo Prov­ Yes. Three matters have been completely prepared ince) asked the Attorney-General: and listed for hearing in the County Court in Novem­ Are any prosecutions pending as a result of the find­ ber this year. Committal proceedings in a fourth mat­ ings of the board of inquiry into certain matters within ter were heard in the Melbourne Magistrates Court on the City of Richmond? Ifso, when will they proceed? 15 November 1983. 1122 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Joint Sitting ofParliament

Wednesday, 23 November 1983 The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for Planning and Environment)-By leave, I The PRESIDENT (the Hon. F. S. Grim­ move: wade) took the chair at 11.3 a.m. and read That this House meet the Legislative Assembly for the prayer. the purpose of sitting and voting together to recom­ DRUGS POISONS AND mend three members of the Parliament of Victoria for appointment to the Council of Monash University and, CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES as proposed by the Assembly, the place and time of (AMENDMENT) BILL such meeting be the Legislative Assembly Chamber on This Bill was received from the Assembly Thursday next at 2 p.m. and, on the motion of the Hon. D. R. The motion was agreed to. WHITE (Minister for Minerals and En­ ergy), was read a first time. It was ordered that a message be sent to the Legislative Assembly acquainting them of the foregoing resolution. JOINT SITIING OF PARLIAMENT MONASH UNIVERSITY QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE The PRESIDENT (the Hon. F. S. Grim­ wade)-I have received the following com­ munication from the Minister of Education: WILKE and CO. LTD Section 7 of the Monash University Act 1958 pro­ The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN vides that three members of the Council of Monash University shall be members of the Parliament ofVic­ (Western Province)-Is the Leader of the toria who have been recommended for appointment House, in his capacity as Minister for Plan­ by a joint sitting of the members of the Legislative ning and Environment, now in a position Council and the Legislative Assembly conducted in to answer the question I put to him last accordance with rules adopted for the purpose by the Wednesday as to whether Wilke and Co. members present at the sitting. Ltd was operating within the terms of its The term of office of the members appointed pur­ Environment Protection Authority licence; suant to this provision-The Honourable James Vin­ was it doing so prior to 30 September, and cent Chester Guest, M.L.e., The Honourable William does the Minister agree with the concept of Robert Baxter, M.L.e., and Dr. Gerard Marshall an officer of the Environment Protection Vaughan, M.P.--expires on 11th December, 1983 and I should be grateful if you could arrange a joint sitting Authority accompanying a company officer before the end of the current Session of the members overseas? of the Legislative Council and the members of the The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for Legislative Assembly to recommend three members Planning and Environment)-I am in a po­ for appointment to the University Council for the four sition to answer the honourable member's year term from 12 December 1983. question. However, I indicate that I shall be I have addressed a similar letter to the Speaker of reading from notes because the matter in­ the Legislative Assembly. volves some technicality, and I apologize I have also received the following mes­ for that fact. sage from the Assembly: The company is located in Browns Road, Mr PRESIDENT Clayton, and operates heat set printers for The Legislative Assembly acquaint the Legislative the production of glossy magazines. It is Council that they have agreed to the following resolu­ situated in a light industrial zone, adjacent tion: to residential areas. Solvents are evapo­ rated from the freshly printed article, and That this House meets the Legislative Council for odours from the plant's operation have an­ the purpose of sitting and voting together to choose three members of the Parliament of Victoria to be noyed nearby residents for several months. recommended for appointment to the Council of the The company was prosecuted in June Monash University and proposes that the place and 1983 and fined $20 000 for 40 counts of time of such meeting be the Legislative Assembly unlicensed discharge. The most recent lic­ Chamber on Thursday next at 2 p.m. o'clock. ence, issued on 30 September, covers all with which they desire the concurrence of the Legisla­ nine printing presses, including three print­ tive Council. ing lines which were previously unlicensed Questions without Notice 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1123 and which are the major source of problem ernor, in turn, has referred the matter to the odours. Solicitor-General. The company recently installed "smog Will the Minister inform the House what hogs" on three printing lines. Although the are the implications of the letter to the Gov­ number of complaints has fallen since in­ ernor, and to the Minister? stallation of this equipment, a few residents The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for continue to be affected by odours from the Minerals and Energy)-I have received plant. The authority is now investigating some preliminary legal advice on this mat­ these complaints and has written to the ter. I have not yet received any formal ad­ company requesting that additional "smog vice from the Solicitor-General. The hogs" be ordered and installed as soon as president of the Prospectors and Miners As­ possible, and no later than 15 May 1984. sociation, Mr Kemsley, appears to be rely­ Top priority is to be given to the problem ing on an extract from the 1856 Constitution discharge points. The company has also as­ in which it was stated, among other things, sured the chairman of the authority that no that existing contractual arrangements en­ presses will be operated on week-ends until tered into by the Crown, at that stage being the problem is resolved. the WestmInster Government, would re­ The current licence for the company in­ main in force. Obviously, that related to cludes a Planning Appeals Board determi­ existing contractual commitments, but did nation that specific emission standard be not take away the right of the State to pass set at 70 mg/m3 HC. The board did not laws from time to time that may revoke accept a proposal from the authority that those contractual arrangements. the licence should specify installation of The understanding that I have of what specific pollution control equipment and an was meant by the expression that the asso­ 85 per cent reduction of hydrocarbon emis­ ciation is relying on is that it would enable sions. The company is appealing to the Su­ the Government to continue with the con­ preme Court against this decision. tractual arrangements that had been en­ The company was one of a number of tered into prior to the adoption of the 1856 companies which contributed funding for Constitution and would not require the re­ an overseas study tour of the printing in­ negotiation of all those existing contractual dustry and an assessment of pollution con­ commitments, but would not take away the trol. strategies and equipment used right of the State at any stage to pass legis­ elsewhere. An officer of the authority at­ lation on matters relating to the State, in­ tended this tour. I announced this tour in a cluding the issue of the miner's ri$hts. No press release last September and stressed other person at any stage in the history of that the industry's funding of this trip was Victoria, apart from Mr Kemsley, has said in keeping with the Government's "polluter that the State has moved unconstitutionally pays" philosophy. in dealing with the miner's right. That is a preliminary advice. Further advice is being MINER'S RIGHTS sought from the Solicitor-General. I look The Hon. K. I. M. WRIGHT (North forward to receiving that advice and do not Western Province)-My question to the consider that Mr Kemsley has a sound case. Minister for Minerals and Energy relates to POINT NEPEAN the concern of the Prospectors and Miners Association of Victoria Ltd about amend­ The Hon. M. J. SANDON (Chelsea ments to the Mines Act. The association's Province)-My question to the Minister for president, Mr Doug Kemsley, of Maiden, Conservation, Forests and Lands relates to who is known to some honourable mem­ Point Nepean, which is an important area bers, and who will be a constituent of the to Victoria both historically and environ­ North Western Province after the next elec­ mentally. I understand that the Department tion, argues that the amendments will not of Defence will vacate that area. Have any fully restore the miner's right to small pro­ discussions taken place with the Federal spectors. Believing the action of the Gov­ Government to transfer that land to the ernment was unconstitutional, Mr Kemsley Victorian Government? has referred the matter to His Excellency The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister the Governor. I understand that the Gov- for Conservation, Forests and Lands)- 1124 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Questions without Notice

Most honourable members will recognize MYXOMATOSIS STRAINS the extreme value ofthe Point Nepean land, which has been well documented as the Na­ The Hon. D. M. EVANS (North Eastern Province)-I refer the Minister for Conser­ tional Parks Service has carried out consid­ vation, Forests and Lands to reports that erable surveys in the area. It has historical the myxomatosis campaign against rabbits, significance and contains important vege­ which depends greatly on the availability of tative and biological aspects. I understand virulent strains of myxomatosis, may be in that the Flinders Shire Council has alsQ re­ danger once the current potent strain has leased a comprehensive report on the area. lost its ability to kill. There may be no fur­ In my view, if that land could be acquired ther developments of more potent strains many benefits would be gained for Victoria taking place at present which could endan­ as it could be joined to the Cape Schank ger the whole programme of myxomatosis Coastal Park. I have written to the Federal control of rabbits. Is that correct? If so, what Government on this matter. Honourable will the Victorian Government do to fur­ members may be interested to know that ther the development of a continuing sup­ the Federal Minister will soon visit the area. ply of potent strains of myxomatosis? Arrangements are being made for him to do The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister so and have discussions on the proposition for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-I am of the land being transferred to Victoria. pleased to inform the honourable member Possibilities have already been considered that that report is not correct. From time to on the transfer of land. There are many areas time during the 1950s and 1960s the myxo­ of State-owned land of which the Common­ matosis strain declined and the incidence of wealth has use. rabbits increased. Therefore, new strains must be released once the rabbit numbers In the reverse, much Commonwealth land build up. has been used by the State. In New South Wales a successful land transfer programme At present the Lausanne strain is being used. This strain has been released each year was carried out between the State and Fed­ and field studies have found that its viru­ eral Governments. A possibility exists for a lence is not decreasing. That strain is main­ similar transfer to take place between the taining its effectiveness despite the Victorian and Federal Governments. increasing resistance of rabbits to myxo­ ASH WEDNESDAY BUSH FIRES matosis. I assure the honourable member that the Keith Turnbull Research Station The Hon. D. G. CROZIER (Western has several more virulent strains under re­ Province)-In light of the fact that the State search. There are approximately 100 differ­ Electricity Commission has set aside $45 ent strains of myxomatosis under research million to meet the claims arising from the which can be used. Ash Wednesday bush fires, can the Minister At this stage it is not necessary to release for Minerals and Energy assure the House any ofthose new strains while the Lausanne that the commission has arranged adequate strain is still effective. Recently I wrote to insurance cover for the coming fire danger the Federal member, Mr Barry Jones, who period? . has charge of this matter in the Federal Government, requesting him to ensure that The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for there is no holdup in the research carried Minerals and Energy)-The amount of$45 out on myxomatosis because it is still the million which was indicated as being set most effective method of controlling rab­ aside in yesterday's annual report goes to­ bits. I wrote to him to explain that the Vic­ wards providing for the losses that may be torian Government wished to continue that incurred by the State Electricity Commis­ research to ensure that there are always sion because of the Ash Wednesday bush plenty of virulent strains being released to fires in February 1983. For the coming sum­ keep the rabbit population under control. mer period discussions have been occurring RURAL RENTAL POLICY FOR between the commission and the insurers CROWN LANDS about taking out further insurance. I am not aware if those discussions have been con­ The Hon. JOAN COXSEDGE (Mel­ cluded. bourne West Province)-Earlier this year Questions without Notice 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1125 the Minister for Conservation, Forests and Minerals and Energy to the item described Lands released a report entitled, "Rural in the most recent State Electricity Com­ Rental Policy for Crown Lands". The pe­ mission Annual Report as "amortized for­ riod for public comment on that report ex­ eign exchange translation differences", pired on 31 October-like this House will totalling $24· 7 million and to the statement in 1985. Can the Minister indicate to the in that report that the commission regards House whether he has made any decisions foreign exchange fluctuations as part of the arising from the report or from the public cost of financing. submissions that were made? With all the Government's emphasis on The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister modem financial management techniques, for Conservation, Forests and Lands)­ why has the Government not ensured that Following the release of the report, a num­ the Commission has availed itself of the ber of submissions have been received. facilities provided by the inter-bank hedge Probably the aspect ofthe report from which market or the currency futures market to the most representations were received con­ prevent losses of this sort occurring? cerned the ~~Fl " land in the Mallee. The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for Although I have not made a final decision Minerals and Energy)-It is correct to say on other areas of Crown land, I have made that, during the period of the devaluation a decision on the release of the "Fl" Mallee earlier this year, a currency loss was sus­ land because there are still 57 ofthose blocks tained by the State Electricity Commission. to go. As honourable members-particu­ Subsequent to that the Government has ob­ larly those representing the area-would re­ tained the services of a Swiss bank to pro­ call, I stopped the allocation of this land vide advice both to the commission and the because of the drought. Now that the Government on the handling of the over­ drought is well and truly over, I have de­ seas portfolio to ensure that, with respect to cided to restart the process and a land board off-shore borrowing, a basket of currencies is to be established chaired by Mr Bob is involved to minimize the risk in that Knight of the Rural Finance Commission portfolio. With the appreciation in the Aus­ and Mr Leo Gibney from my department. tralian currency since that time, there has It is hoped to obtain the valuations before been a significant improvement in terms of Christmas so that advertisements can be what was the anticipated loss that might 'placed in January. I hope the hearings will have occurred at the time of the devalua­ be conducted in February and March and tion. that the land will finally be allocated by the end of March. However, other aspects may DAIRYING INDUSTRY delay the problem. The Hon. B. A. MURPHY (Gippsland A problem of concern to farmers is im­ Province)-Last year concern was ex­ provements to land. I have decided that the pressed about the effects of the drought on valuations that are now carried out will as­ the dairying industry. Has the Minister of certain the value of all improvements owned Agriculture evidence of the performance of by present occupiers and structural and land dairy farmers in 1982-83 and will he out­ improvements which the occupier can prove line that evidence to the House? he made. If the occupier can prove he car­ ried out the improvements, was responsible The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ for them, purchased or inherited them from culture)-I appreciate the keen interest of a previous occupier, or ifland is awarded to Mr Murphy and, as honourable members an applicant other than the current occu­ would be aware, I am keenly interested in pier, the incoming occupier will pay the full the performance of farmers everywhere. compensation for those improvements. A According to the figures from the annual decision on the "F2" land and other Crown survey of the dairying industry prepared by land will be made at a later date. my department, a 22 per cent increase in cash farm returns to dairy farmers took place STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION in 1982-83. FINANCES The effect of the drought was evidenced The Hon. HADDON STOREY (East by the fact that there was a 31 per cent in­ Yarra Province)-I refer the Minister for crease in operating costs, but the over-all

Session 1983-45 1126 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Questions without Notice increase in net income was 13 per cent. I crease which resulted from the cost savings am sure all honourable members would produced in the internal management of the agree that this was an excellent achieve­ commission. In addition, an Australian ment considering the adverse conditions Loan Council decision in June 1982, had which affected a large part of the dairy in­ the effect ofremoving the restrictions on the dustry in Victoria. commission's borrowing ability, so the cost Honourable members may be interested of its borrowing programme has been re­ to note that the average cash farm income duced durin~ 1982-83 by its ability to bor­ for dairy farmers in this State was $78 540 row in semI-Government bonds and not last year and the cash farin operating costs needing to use other loan-raising tech­ were slightly more than $40 000. The de­ niques which would have been more costly. tailed results of the 1982-83 dairy farm With the continuing downward trend in management study will be available shortly interest rates and with further cost saving and will soon be published by the Depart­ measures, including a further reduction in ment of Agriculture. the consumer price index, it is hoped that in the year 1984-85, the trend that has been STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION established in respect of lower tariff in­ PROFIT creases can be maintained, although it is too The Hon. N. B. REID (Bendigo Prov­ early at this stage to indicate categorically ince)-I refer the Minister for Minerals and what that tariff change might be. Energy to the most recent annual report of TRANSPORT OF LIVESTOCK BY the State Electricity Commission and ask V/LINE him whether it is a fact that the total trading profit earned by the commission in 1982-83, The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ before allowing for the bush-fire losses and ern Province)-Has the Minister of Agri­ foreign exchange losses, was $115 million culture had any discussions with his compared with a profit calculated on a com­ colleague, the Minister of Transport, about parable basis in 1981-82 of $20 million. a proposal that V/Line withdraw from the How does the Government justify this ex­ transport of livestock in Victoria? If so, in traordinarily high operating profit, and will view of the disastrous consequences such a the Minister give the House an assurance decision would have on the livestock indus­ that the Government will not use the com­ try in Victoria, for which the Minister is mission's monopoly to derive extortionate responsible, will he undertake to resist such profits from the consumers of Victoria in a proposal with all the resources he has at future? his command? The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for The Hon. D. E. KENT (Minister of Agri­ Minerals and Energy)-The calculation for culture)-The subject has not been dis­ the dividend for the rate of return is quan­ cussed and it is obvious from my attitude · tifiable. In respect of the $45 million profit on these matters that I shall resist to the that the State Electricity Commission pro­ utmost any such proposal. duced for 1982-83, it must be understood, PROSECUTION UNDER THE firstly, that in context of the total revenue ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION of the State Electricity Commission, which AUTHORITY ACT is in the vicinity $1300 million, the figure of $45 million is only a small percentage. The Hon. L. A. McARTHUR (Nuna­ Secondly, the $45 million profit that has wading Province)-I ask the Minister for been produced for the year ended 30 June Planning and Environment, whether it is a 1983 contributed to the capacity of both the fact that a Warragul resident has been gaoled commission and the Government to ensure for eight days for driving a vehicle which that the tariff increase for 1983-84 could be did not comply with the Environment Pro­ set at 7·9 per cent. That figure is lower than tection Authority Act? the prevailing consumer price index, which The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for is between 10·5 per cent and 11 per cent, Planning and Environment)-I am happy and is the lowest tariff increase for ten years. to answer the question in some detail be­ Therefore, the benefits of that profit have cause honourable members will realize that already been reflected in a lower tariff in- amendments to the Environment Protec- Personal Explanation 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1127

tion Authority Act were passed through this of devaluation, has been recovered during House not too long ago. The EPA has been the year with the appreciation in the Aus­ actively moving to prosecute in cases where tralian dollar. As I also indicated in re­ noise levels emitted from cars are above the sponse to a question from Mr Storey, with allowable limits. the assistance of the Swiss Bank the internal Mr Gavin Beasley was prosecuted at the managers of the overseas portfolio at the Warragul Magistrates Court on November SEC have been arranging the affairs of the 18 for being in contravention of section 48B Commission, in respect of its offshore bor­ (1) of the Environment Protection Author­ rowings, in such a way as to construct a ity Act. Mr Beasley had earlier refused, in series of loans with a basket of currencies July, to allow his vehicle to be tested. He which has the effect over a period of mini­ was allegedly very abusive and threatening mizing any losses that might be incurred as to the authorized officer and there is some a result of currency changes. consideration at present of taking action in Apart from some small losses or profits that regard. On a second occasion, Mr Beas­ that might be incurred from time to time as ley was served a notice that his vehicle was a result of swings and roundabouts, that is subject to be tested in August. It was found a secure investment in respect of currency that the vehicle was emitting noise levels changes. above the permissible limit, and so the In respect of the net effect of the deval­ prosecution that the honourable member uation, at present I am not aware what that mentioned, proceeded. figure might be. Suffice to say that there has Alternatives were made available to Mr been a significant improvement in the po­ Beasley, but he was not co-operative. He sition as a result of the appreciation of the refused to pay a fine and continued to say Australian dollar. that he had done nothing wrong. In the end the magistrate had no option but to apply a PERSONAL EXPLANATION harsher penalty, which was eight days in The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for custody. Planning and Environment)-I wish to I have taken some time on the matter make a brief explanation about an incident because it is important that the House and that occurred yesterday. During the Com­ the community understands that the EPA mittee stage in the debate on the Fisheries intends to continue to be active in prosecut­ (Further Amendment) Bill, a vote occurred ing the new amendments on behalf of the and I indicated that the vote was won by rest of the community. the Government by 23 to 17. STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION I also indicate that, by agreement, a pair BORROWINGS had been given to Mr Murphy and the pairs' book will show that Mr Murphy and Mr The Hon. H. R. WARD (South Eastern Long were paired. Just before the division Province)-I refer the Minister for Min­ bells stopped ringing, and not within either erals and Energy to the foreign exchange my notice or the notice of the Whips, Mr loss which was disclosed in the State Elec­ Murphy, who was keen to return to the tricity Commission annual report. Firstly, Chamber, slipped back into the Chamber how much did the SEC lose as a result of and was counted. the devaluation of the Australian loan? Sec­ ondly, is it a fact that Alcoa of Australia The division vote was properly counted offered to hedge the SEC-United States of and the record cannot and should not be America exposure and that the offer was changed. The pairs' record will remain the refused? way it was written and agreed on. It remains The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for simply for me to apologize to the House and Minerals and Energy)-In respect of the lat­ to the Opposition, although it is clear that ter point, I am not aware that such an offer the results of the division would not have was made and I will take steps to find out been altered. whether it was made. The incident should not have occurred. It must be understood that a significant However, I apologize and indicate that the part of the loss that was incurred at the time Government will endeavour in the future 1128 COUNCIL 23 November 19,83 Ministerial Statement to ensure that a similar incident does not under the third term of reference, the occur again. recommended processes for assessment and approval of the route in this instance. The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern Province) (By leave)-I thank the Leader of In accordance with the provisions of the the Government for his explanation. The Parliamentary Committees Act 1968 the Opposition is satisfied that the incident re­ Government has considered the conclu­ ferred to was a pure accident. sions and recommendations made by the Natural Resources and Environment Com­ MINISTERIAL STATEMENT mittee and wishes to report as follows: Transmission lines serving Melbourne FIRST TERM OF REFERENCE: The need The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for for the Coldstream to South Morang Minerals and Energy)-I wish to make a 500 000 volt line. Ministerial statement on the first report on In relation to the first term of reference, the inquiry into transmission lines serving the committee recommends that: Melbourne by the Natural Resources and Environment Committee on the proposed The fourth 500 000 volt transmission line between Coldstream to South Morang 500 000 volt the Latrobe Valley and the Melbourne metropolitan line. area should be constructed and in service by the time the third Loy Yang generating unit becomes opera­ On 26 October 1982 the Natural Re­ tional. sources and Environment Committee was directed by His Excellency, the Governor in The Government accepts this recommen­ Council: dation; the line will be constructed in the existing southern easement between Hazle­ To consider, make recommendations and make a wood and Narre Warren. The southern final report to Parliament before 31 March 1983 on- easement, with capacity for three 500 000 (i) The forward planning needs for the development volt lines, was approved in 1979 following of the State Electricity Commission of Victoria tran~ a full environmental analysis and public in­ mission system servicing the metropolitan area; quiry. Planning approval for construction will be given by the Minister for Planning (ii) the criteria to be adopted in locating terminal stations, assessing alternative routes and the need for and Environment under the provisions of undergrounding transmission lines in part or in full in section 35 (d) of the Town and Country the light of land use, economic and environmental Planning Act. Construction will commence constraints; and in early 1984 and the line completed June 1986. (iii) the processes for assessment and approval of power lines to minimize duplication of permits and The committee agrees with the State maximize public input. Electricity Commission proposal that in or­ Following a request by the committee for der to connect the fourth line into the met­ an extension of time to fully examine all of ropolitan area at South Morang, it is the matters addressed by the three terms of necessary to construct a new section of line reference, the committee was requested to between Coldstream and South Morang and report progressively on the three lines pro­ the Government accepts this conclusion. posed by the State Electricity Commission. SECOND TERM OF REFERENCE: The In the first instance, the committee was to feasible route for the Coldstream to South report on the commission's proposal for a Morang 500 000 volt line. 500 000 volt transmission line from Cold­ stream to South Morang, addressing- In relation to the second term of refer­ ence, the committee recommends that: under the first term of reference, the need for reinforcing transmission to the '(i) The feasible route to be subjected to detailed ex­ 500 000 volt terminal stations in the outer amination ofenvironmental issues, should be that pro­ metropolitan area; posed by the SEC running along the same easement as the existing line from Hazelwood to South Morang under the second term of reference, the between Coldstream and South Morang (route LVI). feasible route to be subjected to detailed (ii) The Environment Effects Statement to be pre­ examination of environmental issues; and pared on the proposed Coldstream to South Morang Ministerial Statement 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1129

line at the request of the Minister for Conservation, empt from planning control under section 35 (d) of the should examine in detail the environmental effects of Town and Country Planning Act 1961. the SEC proposed Coldstream to South Morang 500 ()()() volt transmission line. The Environment Effects State­ The Government accepts this recommen­ ment should also examine in principle only the relative dation in principle, but in view of the con­ environmental impact of alternative transmission lines siderable public discussion that has already discussed in this report. taken place on the route and its associated environmental aspects, the decision on the The Government accepts these recommen­ recommendation for a further inquiry will dations and it is agreed that the State Elec­ not be taken until an analysis of the public tricity Commission be required to prepare comment on the environment effects state­ an environment effects statement for a route ment has been carried out by the Minister running along the same easement as the ex­ for Planning and Environment. isting Coldstream to South Morang line and to review the relative environmental im­ It is, therefore, proposed that: pact of the conceptual alternatives defined (i) An environment effects statement in the Natural Resources and Environment should be prepared by the State Electricity Committee report. Commission. THIRD TERM OF REFERENCE: The The environment effects statement will process proposed for assessment and ap­ include: proval of the line construction. (a) An examination in detail of the en­ vironmental effects of construction of the In relation to the third term of reference, State Electricity Commission proposed the committee recommends the following Coldstream to South Morang line adja­ process: cent to and in the same easement as the (i) An Environment Effects Statement (EES) should existing line from Hazelwood to South be prepared by the State Electricity Commission. Morang line between Coldstream and (ii) The Environment Effects Statement should be South Morang; and advertised and made available to the general public (b) a review of the relative environ­ and in particular to land holders along the route of the mental, social and economic impacts of proposed line. The advertisement should make clear the defined conceptual alternatives com­ the approval procedure which will be followed. pared with the proposed route. (iii) The Minister for Conservation should appoint an independent panel in accordance with section 9 of In preparing the environment effects the Environment Effects Act 1978 and should consider statement, the State Electricity Commis­ limiting the terms of reference of this panel so that sion will seek comment from landowners matters already examined in this report are not unne­ along the proposed route, responsible plan­ cessarily re-examined. The panel should be asked to ning authorities, public bodies and com­ recommend to the Minister for Planning whether or munity groups. not the proposed line should be approved, and if so, what conditions, if any, should be applied to the con­ (ii) The environment effects statement struction of the line. will then be issued by the Ministry for Plan­ (iv) On receipt of the independent panel's recom­ ning and Environment seeking written sub­ mendations the Minister for Conservation should make missions. Copies of the submissions will be his assessment as required by the Environment Effects provided to the State Electricity Commis-. Act 1978 and provide it to the Minister for Planning. sion for comment. (v) Having received the Minister for Conservation's (iii) The Minister for Planning and En­ assessment and providing that approval of the pro­ vironment will either prepare an assess­ posed line has been recommended by the independent ment forthwith, recommending what panel and agreed to by the Minister for Planning, the conditions should apply for construction of Minister should seek the formal agreement ofthe Min­ the line, or he may decide prior to making ister for Minerals and Energy and the State Electricity Commission, that the commission will abide by con­ his assessment to seek further advice from ditions to be applied to the construction of the line as a further public inquiry constituted under specified by him; and section 9 (l) ofthe Environment Effects Act. (vi) If such an agreement is obtained, the Minister (iv) Following the assessment and agree­ for Planning should apply to the Governor in Council ment on the conditions that would apply to for the construction of the transmission line to be ex- the construction of the line, appropriate 1130 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Subordinate Legis/ation Bill planning approval will be arranged under SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION the provisions of section 35 (d) of the Town (DEREGULATION) BILL and Country Planning Act. The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for Province)-I move: Planning and Environment) (By leave)-I raise a point of clarification. The Minister­ That this Bill be now read a second time. ial statement that the Minister has con­ In Canada early in 1978, a meeting of First cluded reading contains a detailed series of Ministers-Canada's equivalent of Austral­ terms of reference that were written prior to ia's Premiers Conference-acting unani­ the change of Ministries on 1 September mously across party lines, issued a 1983. Wherever it mentions the Minister communique in the following terms: for Conservation being required to perform The burden of Government regulation on the pri­ duties under the Environment Effects Act vate sector should be reduced and the burden of over­ 1978, the reference should be to the Minis­ lapping federal and provincial jurisdictions should be ter for Planning and Environment, because eliminated. Procedures will be instituted to review the he now has the responsibility of administer­ effects of regulatory actions on jobs and costs. First ing that Act. There is no correction to be Ministers agreed that the whole matter of economic made; it is simply a clarification so that the regulation at all levels of government should be re­ reader of H ansard is not confused because ferred to the Economic Council for recommendations of what has occurred since 1 September for action, in consultation with the provinces and the 1983. private sector. The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat Subsequent reports of the Economic Coun­ Province) (By leave)-In response to the cil of Canada have assisted to pinpoint the latter point made by the Leader of the enormous cost to the community of the fast­ House, where the Minister for Conserva­ growing burden of Government regulations tion is mentioned in the Ministerial state­ and to stimulate action to stem the tide and ment, it is a direct quote from the report of to dispel the notion that Government regu­ lation is an easy panacea. At the federal level the Natural Resources and Environment and in seven Canadian provinces, effective Committee, which was prepared prior to action has been taken to review old regula­ the change of Ministries. tions, eliminate the unnecessary and the ob­ The Opposition is pleased that the Gov­ solete and to ensure that regulation for the ernment has accepted the report of the Nat­ future is no longer treated as an automatic ural Resources and Environment option. In most cases, a thorough analysis Committee that conducted the inquiry. of alternative courses of action is required, There is only one qualification that I seek together with an assessment of the over-all concerning the recommendation that the impact of regulations on the community. Minister for Planning and Environment es­ British Columbia even went so far as to tablish a panel. The Government has re­ establish for a short period a Ministry of sponded by saying a decision on that matter Deregulation to get the programme effec­ will await the public response to the envi­ tively under way and to demonstrate its ronment effects statement, which seems to Government's commitment to the task. be a sensible arrangement. There is little point in appointing a panel unless there are A similar national approach to the same issue across State boundaries and across matters of controversy or substance that party lines is equally vital to the welfare, need to be examined. progress and economic health of this coun­ With that qualification, the Government try. Commerce, industry and consumers are has accepted the recommendations of the. faced with an impenetrable maze of laws Natural Resources and Environment Com­ and regulations at the Commonwealth and mittee, and the qualification that the Gov­ the State level and innumerable traps for ernment has placed on it is perfectly the unwary exist in areas of duplication or acceptable to the committee. The spirit in conflict. Differences exist in such simple which the report was written has been taken matters as the food laws of one State and an up by the Government, and I indicate that other and in labelling requirements, and the Opposition does not oppose the Gov­ these inevitably increase problems and costs ernment's action. for manufacturers and hence for con- Subordinate Legislation Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1131 sumers. Even worse, duplication and con­ ever faster and now threatens to engulf us, flict can exist as between regulations under as the following two tables show. I seek leave one Act and another in the one State and to have the tables incorporated in H ansard there have been many cases or permits for without my reading them. the one development under different Acts containing inconsistent requirements. It is my melancholy duty to report that Leave was granted, and the tables were as the tide has not turned. In fact, it is rising follows:

TABLE 1

Statutory Rules Period Acts ofParliament (Federal and State)

10 years to 1969 6928 12420 10 years to 1979 9703 20131 Increase oflast decade over previous one +40% +62%

TABLE 2

Period Number ofRegulations Made

Federal N.S.W. Vic. Qld. S.A. W.A. Tas. N.T. Total

10 years to 1969 1963 1557 2190 3179 924 184 2423 12420 10 years to 1979 3017 3511 4072 4494 1697 274 3030 36 20131

·Increase, second period on first +54% +125% +86% +41% +84% +49% +25% +62%

Source: Page 51, Government Regulation in Australia, published by Confederation of Australian Industry, July 1980. As I have said on a previous occasion, if ago. He has been similarly unable to answer Moses came down from the mountain to­ my question as to the number of regulations day, instead of bringing ten command­ in force in this State. I forgive him, for that ments, he would bring ten thousand question is unanswerable! regulations-and they would be less read, Nobody knows precisely how many reg~ less understood and even less observed! ulations affect Victoria. There is no com­ plete record. Many of the regulations pre­ In Victoria, the Parliament appears likely dating 1962 are not in bound form, are out to pass its 10 OOOth Act before rising at the of print and are unobtainable. All I can say end ofthis sessional period. Ofcourse many is that the cumulative index to Victorian have been amending Acts, temporary Acts Statutory Rules appearing at the end of the or private Acts and a few-although by no 1980 volume of Victorian Statutory Rules­ means enough-have even been repealing the latest published in bound form-has 217 Acts. It is difficult to say precisely how many pages! Two hundred and seventeen pages of substantive principal public Acts govern us index at an average of well over 40 entries today. The Attorney-General has so far been per page, represents a mighty lot of regula­ unable to provide me with an answer to that tions, and on top of that there are the regu­ question, which I asked him several months lations made in 1981 and 1982. I might add 1132 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Subordinate Legislation Bill that the index of the regulations made in Industry made its assessment three and a 1982 adds a further 22 pages, apart from half years ago, it is probable that the total whatever happened in 1981. People simply cost burden of Commonwealth and Victo­ cannot find their way through that maze. rian Acts and r~ations upon industry and No one can, not even the lawyer or the bu­ commerce in this State is now approaching reaucrat, let alone the private citizen! At the $2 billion per annum. That staggering cost best, the specialist operating in a limited is of course borne by the consumer and rep­ field may find his way through a small cor­ resents close to $500 a year-or almost $10 ner of the maze, subject only to occasional a week-for every Victorian man, woman error! and child. The cost of regulations to business both Many of the regulations doubtless have a large and small is staggering. The Confed­ worth-while social purpose and some real eration of Australian Industry three years or perceived social value. One must seri­ ago estimated that cost at $4000 million an­ ously doubt however that the value of reg­ nually. As a rule of thumb for many practi­ ulation to Victorians approaches $2 billion cal purposes, national figures can be divided per annum. The problem is that no assess­ by four to give an approximate idea of their ment of the burdens imposed by regulations application to Victoria. I am advised, how­ on the one hand as against their value to the ever, that in the case of the cost impact of community on the other occurs in any ra­ regulations, the proportion applicable to tional and coherent way-or in most cases, Victoria is in fact appreciably in excess of at all-before regulations are promulgated. one-quarter of the Australian total. As the No systematic examination of alternative table indicates, Victoria's use of regulations courses of action is undertaken. Regulation is substantially in excess of the average and tends to be regarded as the automatic re­ is exceeded only by Queensland. Further­ sponse to any problem, real or imagined. more, Victoria's public sector has some dis­ New laws beget new regulations and each tinctive characteristics. regulation gives rise to amendments as While still a colony, Victoria invented a loopholes are perceived to emerge. new form of public administration-the As a back-bencher in 1970, I was a mem­ public corporation. It led the way in ex­ ber of my party's committee on the Fisher­ panding State intervention, particularly in ies Bill. Following wide consultation with the early decades of this century. This State both professional and amateur fishermen, still has the most non-departmentalized the committee concluded that many provi­ public sector in Australia. These quasi au­ sions of the draft Bill went far beyond need tonomous public enterprises have asserted and imposed undue cost burdens on the a major influence on the development of fishing industry. The offending clauses were the State and on successive Governments. therefore removed. Early the following year, It is a well known fact that such public bod­ at 4 o'clock on Friday afternoon, in my first ies are durable, more likely to be reconsti­ week as a Minister, a public servant pre­ tuted and enlarged than abolished, and a sented me with a large set of draft regula­ fertile ground for the creation of a multi­ tions under the new Fisheries Act for tude of regulations, many of which are be­ recommendation to the Governor in Coun­ yond the ken or supervision of Parliament. cil. I said, "Bang goes my week-end." He As the Public Bodies Review Committee replied, with a note of incredulity which I implied in its 1981 findings, the sheer num­ well recall, "You're not going to read them ber of public bodies and their attendant reg­ are you?" I said, "Yes." He then gave me a ulations, the variety of their structures, and brief lecture of the "Yes, Minister" variety. their relationships to both the State Gov­ "You will never get your work done if you ernment and the budgetary process, created do things like that," he said. "That is what serious concerns about the efficient man­ you have got public servants for. They have agement ofthe Victorian public sector. This prepared them and a senior man has unusual form of organization allowed a checked them and you can rely on them. A build-up of unnecessary, costly and burden­ Minister has got to stick to essentials, you some regulations. know!". Because of these factors and allowing for I did read the draft over that week-end inflation since the Federation of Australian and found that everything deleted from the Subordinate Legis/ation Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1133

Bill had crept back into the regulations­ (2) Where the shafts of a swing are stepped, i.e. where and a lot more besides, which would never there is a variation in diameter, fillets shall be prov­ have been approved if included in the leg­ ided. islation. Again they were deleted. Having (3) Set screws or pins shall not be used to transmit developed a touch of cynicism during my power to a swing. Parliamentary career, I checked the fisher­ Sometimes the administration of regula­ ies regulations again this week and found tions causes more concern than their con­ that some of what was twice deleted more tent. A few weeks ago I received a letter than twelve years ago has once more reap­ from an agonized winemaker in northern peared. Victoria. He complained that a weights and Several years later, as Minister for Local measures inspector had visited his winery Government, I received a complaint from a and solemnly tipped out the contents of half manufacturer of domestic ladders who a dozen standard bottles of wine and then claimed that undue requirements were being measured them. I do not know what hap­ forced upon him by a scaffolding inspector. pened to the wine thereafter! The inspector I called in the inspector who pointed to the then went on to visit all of the other winer­ scaffolding regulations which purported to ies in the district and di~ precisely the same lay down specifications for ladders of every thing. All of the bottles were standard bot­ description. I questioned the justification tles and all had been obtained from the one and he replied: "Well, ladders are used in glass manufacturer. How much more sensi­ scaffolding." I said: "This is nonsense. The ble it would have been for the inspector to fact that builders' ladders may be used in go direct to the glass manufacturer, take a scaffolding or in place of scaffolding doesn't random sample of bottles, fill them with give you the right, under the guise of scaf­ water and test the volume there and then. folding regulations, to lay down controls A regulation administered in this way over all kinds of ladders. What about do­ brings contempt on the whole process. It mestic ladders and horticultural ladders?" has no value to anyone, other than nuisance "Well," he said, "they could be used in scaf­ value to those affected. It only creates jobs folding." "On that argument, you would be for bureaucrats-unnecessary jobs at that. justified in controlling the specifications and quality of rope because it's sometimes used To add insult to injury, the owner of this in scaffolding," I said. "Yes. I've been well-known winery who has the equally well­ thinking about that," he replied. I in­ known name of his estate and the town on structed him to go away and amend the reg­ his label, was told by the inspector that the ulations so that the controls over ladders label did not comply because it did not state would apply only to those used in scaffold­ the road. The inspector condemned the ing. stock of labels but told the winemaker that he could apply for an exemption from the Shortly thereafter, control of scaffolding Minister upon payment of the prescribed was transferred to another department and fee. I did not think again about the matter. This week, however, I have checked the scaffold­ The examples I have given could be re­ ing regulations again. They still purport to peated ad infinitum. They are indicative of a paternalism which is out of place today. lay down specifications for all classes oflad­ They assume that government knows best; ders, whether or not used in scaffolding. that government has all the answers-and They also control the quality and specifica­ of course it does not! They assume as well tions of rope-mercifully only when used that there is only one way of doing anything in scaffolding! properly, when in fact there almost always To take a more recent example, the Gov­ are many. In doing so, they unnecessarily ernor in Council approved the Amusement restrict choice and stifle invention. Manu­ Structures Regulations 1983 in July this facturers are locked in by established regu­ year. Regulation 33 seems to me to be lations. something of a gem. The side note is To the costs of developing new products '~swings", and the regulation states: and new methods of production must be 33. (1) Any swing shall be supported by rigid bars added the cost and uncertainty and delay of from the axis of rotation on the supporting structure. seeking to obtain a change of regulation- 1134 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Subordinate Legis/ation Bill and often in each State-to sanctify the new and the areas of regulatory activity which development. Many simply do not bother. are respectively desirable or undesirable. The stultifying effect of governmental re­ Any such exercise would certainly have straints makes it simply not worth while. foundered upon the rocks of ideological dif­ Undue regulation thus Inhibits innovation ferences. But notwithstanding the substan­ and slows technological and economic de­ tial political differences as between the velopment. Governments of those various jurisdic­ The call to turn back the tide of excessive tions, all the inquiries and all the reports regulation and to ensure Dlore rational have been able to propose very pragmatic processes for the future has reverberated and practical $uidelines which should apply around the Western World. In Sweden a co­ to the regulation-making process to ensure ordinated group of committees has been es­ that alternative courses of action are con­ tablished "to plan and implement deregu­ sidered and evaluated, that both the bene­ lation and to cut red tape". fits and costs directly and indirectly likely to arise from regulation are properly as­ I have already mentioned some of the sessed in advance and that results are regu­ steps being taken in Canada. In a number larly reviewed. The extent of common of Canadian Provinces, both the resources ground reached in the conclusions of those available to Parliamentary committees to varying jurisdictions is remarkable. This Bill enable effective scrutiny of subordinate leg­ draws extensively on their experience and islation and also the grounds for disallow­ initiatives and the common ground be­ ance of offending regulations have been tween them all, as well as upon past recom­ substantially strengthened. At the Federal mendations of the former Subordinate level, the Canadian House of Commons has Legislation Committee of this Parliament. established a Parliamentary task force to examine and report on Government regu­ Clause notes are attached to the Bill and lations, -including: I do not, therefore, propose to go through the measure clause by clause. Although an The objective, effectiveness and economic impact explanatory memorandum on the frame­ and expanding scope of such regulations; work of the Bill is also attached, for the sake Alternative techniques to achieving regulatory ob­ of completeness of the written record, I jectives; and summarize that framework as follows: Ways by which overlap of federal and provincial jurisdiction may be eliminated. 1. SUNSET PROVISION In the United States, Presidents Nixon and A sunset provision is included under Carter each commenced initiatives to en­ which regulations made prior to 1962- sure that respective costs and benefits of never incorporated in bound volumes-will administrative actions and regulations are be phased out on 30 June next; other old properly weighed before decisions are made. regulations will disappear progressively President Reagan, by a formal Executive thereafter, and for the future a maximum Order in February 1981, laid down pre-con­ life span of ten years will apply to all regu­ ditions to the making of regulations, includ­ lations. (Clause 5). ing the requirement for a "Regulatory 2. GUIDELINES Impact Analysis and Review". His prede­ cessor, incidentally, successfully sponsored New Schedule 2 provides guidelines for a Bill quaintly but admirably entitled, "The the preparation and content of statutory Paper Work Reduction Act". rules. These guidelines are designed to en­ sure that regulation is not an automatic re­ In Australia, the previous Governments sponse, that alternative methods of meeting of Victoria, South Australia and Western needs are properly considered, that the so­ Australia all commissioned major studies cially best solution in net terms is adopte~, on the impact of regulations and the means that this is done on the basis of proper con­ of rationalizing them. sultation and full information, that there is All the studies and all the reports in all advance publicity for changes other than the jurisdictions I have mentioned have those of an inconsequential nature, that the shied away from presenting philosophical Minister personally reviews the process and discussions as to the classes of regulation forms a considered judgment, and that a Subordinate Legis/ation Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1135

range of legal requirements and formalities 7. PARLIAMENTARY REVIEW are carefully complied with. Although the over-all scope of the requirements is new, The review powers of the Legal and Con­ the details are not. stitutional Committee are very substan­ tially broadened. The committee may in The guidelines may from time to time be essence review validity, legal desirability, amended in consultation with the Legal and compliance with guidelines, need and justi­ Constitutional Committee. (New section fication for the regulation, financial and so­ 11). cial implications, equity, a decision to use the "fast track" lane and a range of other 3. IMPACT STATEMENT matters. The committee may recommend Except where regulations place no burden disallowance or amendment of a rule and, upon the public, there must be a regulatory where natural justice so requires, may, sub­ impact statement. This is in essence a cost­ ject only to the veto of the Governor in benefit analysis of the proposed regulations, Council on the recommendation of the re­ which takes into account both economic and sponsible Minister, arrange for suspension social costs and benefits, which must be of the regulation pending its consideration properly thought through and evaluated. by Parliament. (New section 14). Impact statements must be advertised and 8. AVAILABILITY comments sought from those affected by the proposal before submission of the statutory Statutory rules must be readily available rule to the Governor in Council. (New sec­ for purchase or inspection. A person cannot tion 12 and Schedule 3). be convicted of a offence against a statutory rule unless it was available at the time. 4. LEGAL REVIEW (Clause 7). Chief Parliamentary Counsel is required 9. MISCELLANEOUS to review statutory rules and to check their clarity and validity, and their compliance A number of miscellaneous provisions of with the guidelines, before submission of an explanatory, definitive or transitional the statutory rule to the Governor in Coun­ nature are included. Provision is made to cil. (New section 13). enable matters of a fundamentally declara­ tory or machinery nature, which do not im­ 5. FINANCIAL REVIEW pose burdens on the public, to be excluded The Department of Management and from the definition of statutory rules'. This Budget is required to check the regulatory accords with a recommendation of the old impact statement to ensure that it has been Subordinate Legislation Committee. properly prepared and appears to take into As honourable members will appreciate, account all relevant factors. If no impact the kernel of the measure is found in the statement has been required, that depart­ guidelines proposed for the future with re­ ment must assess the likely costs of admin­ spect to the preparation and content of sta­ istration of and compliance with the tutory rules. These are set out in Schedule 2 regulations. (New section 13). to the Bill, commencing at page 15. I do not 6. URGENT MATTERS desire to weary the House by reading them, but, so that the written record will be self­ A "fast track" lane is provided under sufficient, I seek leave to have them incor­ which particular requirements can be porated in H ansard. waived where a real need for urgency exists. This, however, requires the personal certif­ Leave was granted, and the guidelines icate of the Premier that "in the special cir­ were as follows: cumstances of the particular case, the public Section 11 (5) interest requires" this section. (New section 13). The personal responsibility of the Pre­ GUIDELINES mier for this course should ensure that the With respect to the preparation and content of: action is unlikely to be taken lightly. It can in any event be reviewed by the Legal and STATUTORY RULES Constitutional Committee. 1. Before a statutory rule is proposed to be made: 1136 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Subordinate Legis/ation Bill

(a) The objectives sought to be achieved and the 2. In determining the course of action to be taken, reasons for them shall be clearly formulated and de­ the responsible Minister shall have regard to the fol­ fined: lowing principles:

(b) Those objectives shall be checked to ensure that (a) Administrative decisions shall be based on ade­ they: quate information and consultation concerning the need for and consequences ofproposed Government action; (i) Are reasonable and appropriate; (b) regulatory action shall not normally be under­ (ii) Accord with the objectives, principles, spirit and taken unless the potential benefits to the community intent of the enabling Act; from the proposed statutory rule outweigh the poten­ tial costs to the community; (ill) Are not inconsistent with the objectives of other legislation, statutory rules and stated government pol­ (c) regulatory objectives shall be chosen to maxi­ icies; mize the net benefits to the community; (iv) Do not involve costs or disadvantages which (d) among alternative approaches to any given reg­ are disproportionate to the benefits sought to be ulatory objective, the alternative involving the least achieved; net cost to the community shall normally be chosen; and (c) Alternative means of achieving those objectives (whether wholly or substantially, and whether by way (e) regulatory priorities shall be set with the aim of of self regulation, voluntary codes of conduct or other­ maximizing the aggregate net benefits to the commu­ wise) shall be considered and an evaluation made of nity, taking into account the prospective effects of each the benefits expected to arise from each such alterna­ proposal upon the economy and upon every sector of tive as compared with the costs and disadvantages, industry or commerce, or of consumers or members of both direct and indirect; the public or of the State which may be affected thereby. (d) Where a proposed statutory rule impinges upon 3. A statutory rule shall: or may affect the area of responsibility of another de­ (a) Accord with the letter and intent of the enabling partment or statutory body, consultation shall take place Act; with a view to ensuring in advance that any differences are reconciled and that there shall be no overlapping (b) in the case of a principal statutory rule, clearly or duplication of or conflict with legislation, statutory set out as part of its text- rules or stated government policies administered by such other department or statutory body; (i) the objectives of the rule; and (ii) the precise provision authorizing the rule; (e) (i) Where a proposed statutory rule is likely to impose any appreciable burden, disadvantage or cost, (c) be directed towards those objectives and not go whether direct or indirect, upon any sector of industry beyond them; or commerce or of consumers or members of the pub­ lic or of the State, consultation shall take place with (d) adopt the means of achieving those objectives appropriate representatives ofthat sector as to the need which appear likely to involve the least burden on the or otherwise for and consequences of the action pro­ community; posed; and (e) wherever appropriate, set performance stand­ ards rather than prescribe detailed requirements as to (ii) the nature and extent of the consultation with the manner in which those standards shall be achieved; any such sector, and of the publicity for the proposal,. shall be commensurate with the impact likely to arise (j) be expressed plainly and unambiguously, con­ for the particular sector from implementation of the sistently with the language of the enabling Act and in proposal; accordance with modem standards of draftsmanship applying in the State of Victoria. (j) A regulatory impact statement shall be prepared 4. A statutory rule shall not: under Section 12, unless the proposed statutory rule relates only to matters which: (a) Exceed the powers conferred by the Act under which the rule purports to be made; (i) Are of a fundamentally declaratory or machinery (b) be inconsistent with the principles, objectives or nature; or intent of the enabling Act; (ii) deal with relations, organization or procedures (c) make unusual or unexpected use of the powers within or as between departments or statutory bodies; conferred by the Act under which the rule is made and having regard to the general objectives, intention or principles of that Act; (ill) impose no appreciable burden, cost or disad­ (d) embody principles of major substance or contro­ vantage upon any sector of the public. versy or contain any matter which principles or matter Subordinate Legislation Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1137

should properly be dealt with by an Act and not by of Parliament, subordinate legislation or subordinate legislation; administrative decree. (e) unduly trespass on rights and liberties of the per­ On behalf of the Opposition, I therefore son previously established by law; invite the Government to adopt and apply (f) unduly make rights and liberties of the person similar principles and safeguards to the de­ dependent upon administrative and not upon judicial velopment of and presentation of legisla­ decisions; tion as will apply under the provisions of (g) infringe the rules of natural justice; and this Bill to statutory rules. I also suggest to (h) without clear and express authority in the ena­ the Government that it establish a central blingAct- regulation review unit as recommended by (i) have any retrospective effect; the report on regulation review in Victoria (ii) impose any tax or fee, or any fine, imprisonment of March 1982, to ensure that the removal or other penalty; 'Of obsolete and unnecessary restrictions­ (iii) purport to shift the onus of proof to a person whether imposed by legislation, regulation accused of an offence; or administrative decision-is pressed ahead as efficiently, effectively and expedi­ (iv) provide for any further delegation of powers delegated by the Act; tiously as possible. (l) duplicate, overlap or conflict with other statutory The Opposition would like to see an en­ rules or legislation. tire session of Parliament set aside for a 5. Where a proposed statutory rule is likely to im­ delegislation programme, designed to help pose an appreciable burden, disadvantage or cost, get Government off the backs ofpeople, and whether direct or indictect, upon any sector of- we invite the Government's serious consid­ (a) Industry or commerce; eration of that course. If the Government does not accept that invitation, the Liberal (b) consumers; Party pledges itself to set aside a period sub­ (c) the public; or stantially devoted to a delegislation pro­ (d) the States- gramme as soon as practicable after its the permanent head or chairman of the department or return to office. statutory body proposing the statutory rule shall before The Bill deals, furthermore, only with it is submitted to the Governor in Counci~ seek rea­ Victorian statutory rules. It could do no sonable publicity for the proposal and its implications more. Yet, as I stressed earlier, a national in a newspaper or journal serving that sector. approach is essential if the elimination of Those guidelines require a co-ordinated and unnecessary and conflicting requirements is coherent approach to regulation-making. to be effectively undertaken. My party is They should always have been in operation. already working with its sister Parliamen­ It is no attack upon the present Govern­ tary parties in other States and the Com­ ment to draw attention to the fact that past monwealth towards the achievement of this Governments have failed to lay down sen­ national approach. It is sorely needed. It is sible rules to precede the making of regula­ happening in Canada. It can and should tions. happen here. The active participation of the Governments of the Commonwealth and The Bill in essence does three things: It all States would hasten the attainment of provides for the phasing out of old and ob­ that objective. To do so would free Austra­ solete regulations; it lays down a coherent, lians from unnecessary shackles, stimulate systematic and co-ordinated set of guide­ the economy, reduce costs, create employ­ lines and procedures which should be ob­ ment and lift a load from the backs of us all. served for the future; and it adds I therefore invite the Attorney-General to considerable strength to the review process, take the initiative and to propose a co-ordi­ both at the Parliamentary and departmen­ nated and co-operative approach to dere­ tal levels. gulation on a national basis at the next The Bill applies only to subordinate leg­ meeting of the Standing Committee of At­ islation and not to the legislation of Parlia­ torneys-General. ment itself. It could not effectively extend In conclusion, I should like to express my to the latter. Yet, to the citizen, "regula­ sincere appreciation to the members of the tion" includes any constraints upon his Opposition's deregulation unit, to its secre­ freedom of action, whether imposed by Act tary, Mrs Annie Hayes, to my secretary, Mrs 1138 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Subordinate Legislation Bill

Betty Shaw, to Parliamentary Counsel, Mr I was assured that it was not my function to John Butera, to the Attorney-General for look up the law or to try to find out what making him available to assist in a very the law is. The law, I was told, in "Yes, difficult period, to the many who have made Minister" style was as it was explained to submissions to our deregulation unit and to me by officers of the Law Department. I had all others who have assisted in the provi­ to put all thoughts of what I believed the sion of research and information and the law may be out of my mind. development and refinement of the princi­ The Law Department, particularly Mr ples contained in the Bill which I now com­ John Butera, to whom Mr Hunt paid trib­ mend to the House. ute, takes the matter seriously. Mr Butera The question remains as to the manner ·has prepared a major thesis on a broadly in which this Bill should be treated. I have related topic, and Mr Finemore has sought endeavoured to present it on a non-partisan that that be made available as it has been to basis and I hope it will be received by all members of the Opposition and any other honourable members in that spirit. There is interested member of the community. therefore no desire at all to rush it through, and I believe all parties ought to have ample These matters were dealt with by the Le­ opportunity of examining it carefully. As it gal and Constitutional Committee, of which affects the work of the Legal and Constitu­ I was deputy chairman, in early September. tional Committee and its future role, it The committee will be interested in doing would appear to me desirable that the Bill the work and it will have time to conduct a should be referred to the Legal and Consti­ more comprehensive examination of the tutional Committee for examination and matter than it did when it was examining report within four months. such things as the Interpretation Bill. ~­ most twelve months ago, the InterpretatIon If the House agrees, after the adjourn­ Bill was referred to the Legal and Constitu­ ment of the debate on the measure, I will so tional Committee on a motion by the Op­ move. If the Government wishes to have position, and great value has come from time to consider that motion for reference, that. The report of the committee has now I would be happy to leave the motion for been tabled, and I hope that the same will reference on the Notice Paper until follow in this regard. Wednesday next. The Government would like to consider The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ the matter, but I am sympathetic to the General)-I propose to move shortly that course outlined by Mr Hunt. Therefore, I debate on the measure be adjourned until move: next week but, before doing so, I thank Mr Hunt-and it may not be saying much-for That the debate be now adjourned. one of the best second-reading speeches I The Hon. B. P. DUNN (North Western have ever heard in this place. I know this is Province)-The National Party supports the a matter to which Mr Hunt has given much adjournment of the debate on the Bill. I consideration; he has put a great deal of favour what Mr Hunt suggested-that the work into it, and that is reflected in the sec­ Legal and Constitutional Committee ex­ ond-reading speech and in the large amount amine the matter. I commend Mr Hunt for of thoughtful work that has gone into the bringing to the House a thoughtful and well­ preparation of the Bill and the second-read­ prepared second-reading speech. Since I ing speech. have been a member of this place, I have I should like to say on behalf of the Gov­ been totally amazed at the extent and power ernment that the Government treats this of regulations of which few of us know the measure seriously and on a non-partisan, or full import. bipartisan, basis. Mr Hunt has brought forward a subject I was struck with the anecdote in relation on which most honourable members have to the "Yes, Minister" approach that Mr similar sympathies. The National Party Hunt referred to. In my first day as Attor­ hopes that the course of action outlined by ney-General, I queried a piece of legal ad­ Mr Hunt can be followed and that the Bill vice from a senior legal officer and I made can be referred to the Legal and Constitu­ the mistake of reaching for the statute-book. tional Committee to come before the House Huntington's Disease 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1139 for full debate during the next sessional pIe suffering from terminal diseases are low period. on our list of priorities. The motion for the adjournment of the Several psychotic diseases exist, such as debate was agreed to, and it was ordered schizophrenia, Alzheimer's disease and, of that the debate be adjourned until the next course, Huntington's disease. They are all day of meeting. low incidence diseases and all have disas­ The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern trous consequences, both for the sufferer and Province)-By leave, I move: for the family of the sufferer. It is difficult for a non-medical person to give a resume That the proposals contained in the Bill be referred of the incidence, the clinical and neuro to the Legal and Constitutional Committee for inquiry, pathological features, or the historical as­ consideration and report within four months. pects of the disease that would improve on On the motion of the Hon. J. H. KEN­ that given by Mr Evans some time ago. NAN (Attorney-General), the debate was I refer to the resume in Hansard of 25 adjourned. May, and I recommend it to all honourable It was ordered that the debate be ad­ members who have some interest in low journed until Wednesday, 30 November. incidence diseases. I will remind honoura­ ble members of a few aspects of Hunting­ HUNTINGTON'S DISEASE ton's disease. Australia has a low incidence The debate (adjourned from May 25) was of the disease. In Victoria, approximately resumed on the motion of the Hon. D. M. six cases occur for every 100 000 people. It Evans (North Eastern Province): is a completely inherited disease; it is a dis­ ease of progressive consequence; it is a dis­ That this House, recognizing the specific health ease with no cure; and it is a disease of problems posed by Huntington's disease, both to con­ middle age. finned sufferers and "at risk" families, recommends increased Government assistance for research, care of Huntington's disease is inherited geneti­ sufferers and family support, and the consideration of cally. Members of a sufferer's immediate appropriate changes to adoption legislation. family have a 50 per cent chance of inherit­ The Hon. L. A. McARTHUR (Nuna­ ing the disease. Usually, it strikes people wading Province)-I t is a long time since between the ages of 35 years and 45 years. the motion was moved on 25 May. Perhaps For five years or so a sufferer can function it is an appropriate week for the House to adequately; within the next five to ten years, reconsider the motion and the problems decline and death are inevitable. presented by Huntington's disease. I com­ The disease destroys brain cells and brain mend Mr Evans for bringing the motion function and, inevitably, destroys muscular before the House. functions and muscular control. The dete­ The disease is horrific, but is of low inci­ rioration of brain cells results in sufferers dence. Being a disease oflow incidence, it is being unable to move. Often, in the early not one that the general public is familiar stages of the disease, sufferers have been with. Few of us know the effects on the suf­ suspected of being drunk. In the later stages ferer or of the traumatic effects that a diag­ of the disease they are unable to control nosis of Huntington's disease can bring on muscular movements to the extent that they the family of the sufferer. Honourable become unable to speak and unable even to members are familiar with many ofthe other swallow. Whereas most people after youth terminal diseases, such as those caused by prepare for middle age, a person diagnosed cancer and heart disease. Honourable as a Huntington's disease sufferer at the end members are aware of those through the of his or her youth prepares for death. media and perhaps because of friends and Naturally, a disease that is not able to be immediate family who have suffered from diagnosed until it appears later in life causes those diseases. enormous emotional strain and stress not Because of the low incidence of certain only because of the disability being suffered terminal diseases, they do not command at­ by the affected person but also because of tention and are seldom spoken of in the the inheritable factor of the disease. Both media, although, this week, an excellent ar­ the sufferer and the immediate family ticle appeared in the Age. The needs of peo- undergo a great deal of trauma. The off- 1140 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Huntington's Disease

spring of a Huntington's disease parent face and maintains the genetic register which was a 50 per cent risk of also suffering from the set up some time ago by Or Charles Broth­ disease. They see the suffering of the parent ers. with the knowledge that there is a risk that The register is important because of the this suffering will be their fate, too. The difficulty of diagnosis of Huntington's dis­ ramifications of Huntington's disease on a ease. In 1979, the register listed 238 suffer­ family are very great. ers of the disease and approximately 2000 Sometimes, there is good news: The good family members at risk. People on the reg­ news this time is the work of the Arthur ister can be contacted about progress in re­ Preston Centre in Balwyn. This institution search and the register assists general was named afer the Reverend Arthur Pres­ practitioners and specialists in diagnosing ton who was a superintendent of the Wesley the disease in its early stages. Central Mission of the Uniting Church of I commend all those organizations and Australia. I pay tribute to the church for the their staff for their very skilled and dedi­ best traditions of the Christian ethic in the cated services. establishment of the Arthur Preston Centre. It is a world leader. It was the world's first Mr Evans' motion raises many questions, and is the world's most renowned centre for including financial assistance from the the care of Huntington's disease sufferers. Government, increased research assistance For sufferers of the disease in the early and increased funding for patient care and stages, the centre provides counselling, the all-important family support that is medication and therapy and it is able to needed. keep the sufferers in a useful lifestyle during I will briefly examine the present finan­ those early years of the disease. Much has cial arrangements. The Arthur Preston been achieved at the Arthur Preston Centre, Centre, which purchased Mary's Mount, was more than was thought possible only a few purchased by the Uniting Church of Aus­ years ago. The centre provides day care fa­ tralia, and the Commonwealth Department cilities for patients in the more progressive of Social Security paid approximately stages of the disease. Finally, when it is nec­ $500 000 for the renovations and altera­ essary, the sufferer moves into residential tions that were needed to convert that care. building to a state that is suitable for its The centre provides family counselling purposes. The running costs are met by the and a very fine education programme. It Commonwealth Government on a deficit provides formal education for fifth year funding arrangement. This is apparently the medical students from the University of difference between the fees charged to pa­ Melbourne, nursing education for nurses tients and the actual cost per patient, to an from Mount Royal Hospital, the Lincoln agreed amount. All other running costs are Institute of Health Sciences, the Alfred met by the Wesley Central Mission. Hospital and repatriation hospitals. This The Huntington's Disease Association is year, a student from the University of Del­ funded in some measure by the Health aware has been studying at the centre. The Commission of Victoria. In 1981-82, the centre provides valuable education in the . former Government funded the association care of sufferers ofthe disease for the people to the extent of $25 000. That allocation who will be expected to diagnose and treat was increased to $44 140 in 1982-83. The Huntington's disease sufferers. Government grants to that association are Another important body, which shares the for the treatment, care and assistance of grounds ofthe Arthur Preston Centre, is the families of sufferers, to provide day and hol­ Huntington's Disease Association of Vic­ iday relief and to assist peace, happiness toria, which is a welfare body offering sup­ and perhaps sanity in the families of suffer­ port, counselling and help to patients and ers. The association has counsellors and a their families. bus driver. As I stated, the present Govern­ A further important group is the Depart­ ment allocated $44 OOO-odd to the associa­ ment of Psychiatry at the University of tion, although the actual amount received Melbourne. Dr Chiu heads a research pro­ by the association was only $28 000, as the gramme into Huntington's disease. He at­ association had built up a small reserve of tends the clinic at the Arthur Preston Centre $71000. In the usual way of Governments, Huntington's Disease 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1141

the allocation of $44 000 was available if ease sufferers to the best of its financial abil­ needed, but the actual sum paid over was ity. Mr Evans raised the further question of $28000. the adoption issue for people who are sus­ I am sure honourable members would pected-and one can be only suspected, not agree that Australia's recent history has not known-to be carrying the Huntington's been conducive to the spending of signifi­ disease gene. This is obviously a philosoph­ cant sums, whether from the Government ical question and a question of law, ethics purse or from the private purse, on medical and morals and may contain some element research. I digress for a moment: Without of equality. Some may say that I know very doubt, Australia has people with the neces­ little about the law; others may question my sary skills, ingenuity and inventiveness and ethics and morality and, if Mrs Hogg were the equipment, but those people do not have present, I am sure she would question my the funds or the programmes to allow them commitment to equality. Nevertheless, I to undertake research. shall launch into an opinion of what hap­ The Hon. B. P. Dunn-Many have been pens to be an ethical, legal and moral issue. forced to go overseas to continue their stud­ Obviously, a sufferer of Huntington's dis­ ies. ease will be unable to continue in employ­ The Hon. L. A. McARTHUR-And to ment, even though significant progress has continue their research. It is not only Gov­ been made at the Arthur Preston Centre and, ernments that are at fault here; private en­ as the disease progresses, its victims will terprise is often more keen to import than need day care and eventually residential to expend funds on research in Australia. care. A grant ofapproximately $5000 was made Life for sufferers of this disease is now from the University of Melbourne to Dr more productive than was believed possible Chiu for research purposes. Grant moneys some time ago, and medical science may be should be available from the Common­ on the verge of identifying the cause of the wealth Government through the National genetic abnormality. Perhaps genetic engi­ Health and Medical Research Council. After neering will provide a cure for the disease, th~ repo~ of a minor breakthrough and a although I am not too sure of the moral or mInor pOIntIng of the way at Harvard Uni­ ethical standing on that issue. versity, perhaps that Commonwealth body It is important that the community dem­ can be convinced that Melbourne has the onstrate understanding and compassion for expertise and the equipment necessary for sufferers of the disease and for their fami­ further research. lies. A young person approaching marriag­ It is fair to acknowledge that most low­ able age may find that one of his or her incidence diseases receive some Govern­ parents has been diagnosed as a sufferer of ment funding. The Huntington's Disease Huntington's disease. That person in mar­ Association would probably say that it is riage is faced with the choice of having the reasonably well treated, except in the area comfort and joy of a family and perhaps of research. The Victorian Schizophrenia passing on the defective gene or refraining Fellowship has a membership of approxi­ from having children. Persons who refrain mately 3800 sufferers and receives a Com­ from having children are not allowed to monwealth Government grant of adopt children. The adoption laws are such approximately $66 000. There are about 750 that no person who is at risk of being a sufferers of Alzhiemer's disease in Victoria, . carrier of Huntington's disease can adopt and the association of sufferers of that dis­ children. ease receives no Government funding. The In my learned discourse, I note that it is Huntington's Disease Association, with not a self-inflicted disease. Many traumas about 300 actual sufferers and with more are faced by families between the time a than 2000 people at risk and requiring baby is adopted or born until the child counselling, was last year granted an allo­ reaches adulthood with the security of two cation of $44 000. parents. In view of the many road traumas The Government has a commitment to and broken families or single-parent fami­ the motion moved by Mr Evans, and I am lies, it is difficult to justify the argument sure it will assist these low-incidence dis- that a person who may be carrying the Hun- I 1142 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Huntin1on's Disease I tington's disease gene should not be permit­ hope of finding the needle iJi a haystack", ted to adopt children. stated: / Other methods could be considered. For But American researchers no believe they have some time male sperm has been available found the home of the Huntingt n's gene. Or James for fertilization. I do not wish to enter into Gusella, of Massachusetts Gene I Hospital and Har­ ethical arguments about the in vitro fertil­ vard Medical School, reported s team's findings to a ization programme, but perhaps in the short meeting of geneticists in Virgi . early this month. term it may be a possible alternative that Using a length of human D A called a "marker"­ could provIde equality for both males and in this case G8 which is wn to come from the females in this issue. I commend the mo­ fourth chromosome in the man complement of 23 tion moved by Mr David Evans. This is an pairs of chromosomes-the team studied blood sam­ excellent time for debate on the matter to ples from two large families ·th a history of Hunting- take place in this House. I also commend ton's Disease. f the Age for running a feature article direct­ They found a strong li~kage between G8 and the ing attention to people who suffer traumas Huntington's gene which Indicates the disease gene is located on the fourth chJ,t>mosome. The discovery is, through Huntington's disease. of course, only a beginniJig, but it is encouraging. The Hon. G. P. CONNARD (Higin­ botham Province)-I intend to speak briefly Mr McArthur commented on the excellent on the motion. I applaud Mr David Evans work done by Dr Edmund Chiu of the Uni­ for moving it. It is a proper and correct use versity of Melbourne, and there are several of the procedures of this House to bring up highly qualified scientists there studying a topic of this kind. On 25 May, Mr Evans many facets of genetics. The article deals directed attention to the disease. It was with the work of isolatin~ the actual gene probably because of his comments that an and chromosome with whIch the complaint article appeared in the Age yesterday com­ is associated. In the absence at this stage of menting on the lives of people who suffer any form of curative element for atrophy of the unfortunate disability of Huntington's the brain, the ethics of genetic engineering disease. should be discussed. I compliment Mr Evans for his well re­ The University of Melbourne has one of searched remarks on the unfortunate com­ the finest schools of genetics in the world. plaint. As he said, at this stage the disease The skilled school is unfortunately suffer­ does not affect a large number of people. ing, as are large numbers of educational in­ There are 300 sufferers in Victoria and about stitutions, from a lack of money. Many 1200 in Australia. The essence of concern is excellent people are involved in genetics. that on world figures about one in 20 000 Or Bill Hall has reported to me that the people suffer from the complaint, whereas research has reached a stage now, through in Australia there are one in 12 000 suffer­ the use of fine electron microscopes, of being ers. It appears that those figures in Australia able to split chromosomes. In some areas of are increasing. plant life this has been done for some time. The community must be made aware of However, the moral issues of splitting chro­ the disease and must take steps accordingly. mosomes of human beings have not been Mr McArthur spoke of the excellent work adequately addressed. If it were possible in that the Arthur Preston Centre is doing. Mr the next five to ten years to discuss the eth­ McArthur and Mr Evans commented on ics of splitting chromosomes in order to split the urgent needs of people who are suffering the chromosome that is causing the disease, from the disease. It is a disease that occurs the disease would be permanently elimi­ in middle age and frequently does not arise nated with the use of in vitro fertilization. until the age of 70 years. It is consequently With the use of human genetic en~neer­ not a complaint that can be foreseen in chil­ ing in the future it would be poSSIble to dren and frequently does not appear until eliminate diseases such as diabetes which is after child-bearing age. It is essentially a also an inherited chromosome disease, and brain debilitative disease. The brain atro­ other inheritable complaints. As Mr Mc­ phies over a period of years. At the same Arthur said, the issue raises a variety of eth­ time it is a disease that can be traced to ical and moral considerations of human life agenetic disorder. The article that appeared that must be considered. It will not be an in the Age yesterday headed, "At last, some easy issue to deal with. However, I hope Huntington's Disease 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1143 matters such as this disease will continue to The marker appears on the fourth chromo­ be debated in Parliament with the develop­ some of the 46 chromosomes of the human ment of genetic engineering. If universities body. Dr Gusella continued: and scientific institutes are permitted to carry out appropriate research many dis­ The discovery means that diagnostic tests may be eases may be eliminated, perhaps within ten available soon, perhaps within a year. years. I suggest that it is too early to discuss The diagnostic test is only the beginning. the ethics of the issue today, but I forewarn That facility could be an extremely trau­ the House that the ethics of scientific ad­ matic experience for a sufferer or a family vances will be discussed in the next five to which has a history of Huntington's disease ten years as they progress. yet which has not had the opportunity of receiving the care or proper medical treat­ The motion specifically recommended an ment that can be provided, or indeed, any increase in "Government assistance for re­ treatment which may become available in search, care of suffer~rs and family support, and the consideration of appropriate the future to perhaps delay onset of the dis­ changes to adoption legislation". The Lib­ ease. eral Party thoroughly endorses the motion. Dr Edmond Chiu, the senior lecturer in It hopes that continued debate will be held psychiatry at the University of Melbourne, on diseases other than Huntington's disease wrote a letter to me that indicated that the because it is hoped that the requests made technology for repeating that study was by Mr Evans will come to fruition. The Op­ available in Melbourne. In the letter dated position looks forward to proper debate on 18 November 1983, Dr Chiu stated: the moral issues, which I previously dis­ cussed, and I thank Mr Evans for informing . . . currently I have an application for a research grant all of us of the significance of Huntington's in the University of Melboume. If the money is granted disease. then we will be able to repeat this study to demonstrate whether this is a genuine finding . . . The Hon. D. M. EV ANS (North Eastern Province)-I thank the two honourable He is referring to the American research. He members who spoke in support of the mo­ continued: tion that was moved some months ago. I . . . or an accidental finding. Should this marker be thank them for their comments, and the available then we will be one step closer to the gene. form and presentation of them. Mr Mc­ Arthur summed up the reason behind the He is referring to the gene which causes debate and certainly the reason for the mo­ Huntington's disease. Dr Chiu says that it tion when he said that it gave an opportu­ is "the most exciting scientific discovery in nity of showing the understanding and the the decade that he has been working with" compassion of a caring community. I hope the disease. He hopes that funding will be the understanding and the compassion of made available so that the research can be Parliament will lead to the passing of the taken further. The letter reflects the appro­ motion today. priateness of the motion. Briefly, developments in the care, diag­ I suggest that the Minister of Health nosis and, eventually, the treatment of should set up a small committee within the Huntington's disease have taken place re­ Health Commission to examime the possi­ cently. Both Mr McArthur and Mr Connard bility of additional research to ensure that referred to the announcement made by Dr adequate funding is made available. I do James Gusella of the Massachussetts Gen­ not mean luxurious funding but enough to eral Hospital. He said: ensure that a register is drawn up of those . . . a team of U .S. and Venezuelan reseachers used known to have the disease and of their fam­ blood and tissue sample from a 3000-member ex­ ilies. Honourable members should remem­ tended Venezuelan family, descended from a woman ber the Venezuelan woman who has put who died ofHD . . . 3000 people at risk. If funding is provided Huntington's disease- and there is the possibility of treatment, it could then be immediately applied. Per­ . . . a century ago, to locate a distinctive pattern, the haps the genetic test could be applied to so-called marker. those who are considered to be at risk. 1144 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Water (Amendment) Bill

The first step is to identify those who may MORTUARY INDUStRY AND be at risk. Adequate money should be made CEMETERIES ADMINtSTRATION available for research. In addition, those COMMITIJtE people who are at risk should be given the opportunity of considering adopting a child. The Hon. E. H. W AL¥R (Minister for I will have the opportunity of discussing Planning and Environment)-By leave, I this matter with the Adoption Legislation move: Review Committee on 13 December. On That the Mortuary Industry and Cemeteries Admin­ that occasion I hope to be accompanied by istration Committee be empbwered to sit during the Mrs Betty Teltscher who is a researcher at sitting of the Council on Th"rsday, 24 November, be­ the Royal Melbourne Hospital in the field tween 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. of Huntington's disease. She is an ex­ By way of explanation, I understand that an tremely able person. I hope to discuss the important member 'of the committee is moral issues and so on of adoption and the moving out of the country on the day fol­ possibility of establishing a committee to lowing 24 November, and the committee review applicants who are considered to be has asked for a special dispensation so that at risk of contracting Huntington's disease. it can complete a piece of work necessary This would ensure that they have the same before tabling a report. The request is rea­ opportunity that is afforded to others in the sonable, although I understand considera­ community, of applying for the adoption of ble debate has taken place about committees a child. meeting during the sittings of Parliament. Those people should be no more disad­ This reasonable, one-off request does not vantaged than the persons who have a fam­ necessarily set a precedent. I hope the Op­ ily history of heart disease or any other position parties hold the same view. disease which will not rule them out from adopting a child. I thank all honourable The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern members for the support of the motion, Province)-The Opposition accepts the which I hope the House will carry. I com­ proposal in the circumstances. I note in any mend the motion to the House. event that the motion relates to a meeting during the luncheon adjournment and not The motion was agreed to. while the House is actually sitting. In the The sitting was suspended at 1.6 p.m. un­ mind of the Opposition, that removes any til2.9 p.m. objection. However, on previous occasions, WATER (AMENDMENT) BILL the Opposition has drawn attention to the absolute undesirability of Parliamentary This Bill was received from the Assembly committees meeting simultaneously with and, on the motion of the Hon. J. H. Ken­ the House. nan (Attorney-General), for the Hon. D. R. The Hon. B. P. DUNN (North Western WHITE (Minister of Water Supply), was Province)-The National Party has not had read a first time. sufficient time in which to consider the mo­ LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (FEES) tion. BILL The Hon. J. H. Kennan-It would not need a lot! This Bill was received from. the Assembly The Hon. B. P. DUNN-It is a matter of and, on the motion of the Hon. J. H. Ken­ principle and I give due warning to the nan (Attorney-General), for the Hon. D. R. Leader of the Government that it estab­ WHITE (Minister for Minerals and lishes a precedent. Many Parliamentary Energy), was read a first time. committees would have liked to have used PROBATE DUTY (AMENDMENT) this option. The Economic and Budget Re­ BILL view Committee, of which I am a member, has discussed the matter on a number of This Bill was received from the Assembly occasions. Many Parliamentary commit­ and, on the motion of the Hon. J. H. KEN­ tees have spoken about the possibility of a NAN (Attorney-General), was read a first lunch-time meeting or meeting when the time. Parliament is in session in the Chamber. Equal Opportunity Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1145

The House should be well aware of what It should be emphasized that the Equal it is letting itself in for. The motion estab­ Opportunity Act 1982 passed so recently by lishes a precedent and other committees Parliament has, in so far as is ~ammati­ may seek permission to do so as a regular cally consistent, been reproduced m this Bill. occurrence. I have a personal major objec­ It is for the purpose of clarity and not for tion to Parliamentary committees meeting reopening debate that the 1982 Act will be during sittings of the House. The responsi­ formally repealed and re-enacted. bility of members is, firstly, in the Chamber The major objectives of the Bill are: ofthe Parliament, and committee work rates (1) To widen the grounds of unlawful somewhere down the track from that. It is discrimination; not right to ask members of Parliament to choose where their responsibilities and loy­ (2) to make sexual harassment unlawful; alties lie. That is why the National Party (3) to re-cast the exemption provisions has opposed the concept of Parliamentary of the existing legislation; and committees meeting when the House is sit­ (4) to facilitate the administration of the ting. The motion is a slight adaptation of Act by strengthening the investigation, con­ that principle in that it intends to meet dur­ ciliation and enforcement provisions. ing the luncheon adjournment. Honourable members should be aware that this will be GROUNDS OF UNLAWFUL DISCRIM­ neither the first nor the last request. INATION The Hon. E. H. W alker-I t is the first. As mentioned, the current bases of un­ lawful discrimination are sex, marital status The Hon. B. P. DUNN-It is not neces­ and impairment. It is the view of the Gov­ sarily the first. A couple of years ago a long ernment that other undesirable areas of dis­ debate took place on such an issue. The crimination should be made unlawful. The Public Bodies Review Committee wanted major impact of anti-discrimination legis­ permission to meet during a sitting of the lation is educative but, where necessary, a House. policy of equal opportunity must be sup­ I would have preferred more time to con­ ported by effective remedies and such pro­ sider the motion because it is a matter of tection should extend to as many classes of principle. The committee in question may persons as possible. With this in mind, the have good reasons for wishing to meet in Bill makes it unlawful to discriminate on this case, but every committee can find a the ground of"status" or "private life". The good reason for wanting to meet during the concept of "status" includes the sex, the luncheon adjournment. marital state, the race or the impairment of The motion was agreed to. a person. The inclusion of race-being race, col­ EQUAL OPPORTUNITY BILL our, nationality and ethnic or national origin-as a ground of unlawful discrimi­ The Hon. J. H. KENNAN (Attorney­ nation, is an essential requirement in a mul­ General)-I move: ticultural community such as Victoria. A That this Bill be now read a second time. fundamental, internationally recognized human right is equal treatment irrespective The purpose of the Bill is to implement the of the individual's race. Australia's ratifica­ Government's policy for the promotion of tion of the United Nations Covenant on equal opportunities for all Victorians. In Civil and Political Rights constituted a 1977, the Equal Opportunity Act prohibited promise of protection of rights irrespective specific acts of discrimination on the basis of race, colour or ethnic origin, a promise of sex or marital status. Last year the Gov­ the Victorian Government fully supports. ernment's Equal Opportunity (Discrimina­ The Bill makes it unlawful to discrimi­ tion Against Disabled Persons) Act added nate on the basis of race, in employment, impairment as a ground of unlawful dis­ education, accommodation and the provi­ crimination. The consolidating Bill repeals sion of goods and services. In respect of the both the 1977 and 1982 Acts so that all of provision of goods and services, the inter­ the equal opportunity provisions will be ests of minority racial groups in the preser­ presented in a coherent manner. vation of their cultures is recognized and 1146 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Equal Opportunity Bill entitlement to access to special services is those proscriptions. In particular, it is a recognized if those services meet the special criminal offence for adults to sexually ex­ needs of the group in respect to education, ploit children and young persons and it is training or welfare. appropriate that cnminal sanctions should The existing definition of "marital sta­ apply to those activities. tus" has been extended to include parent­ However, as with religion and politics, so hood and de facto spouses. A person should long as behaviour is lawful, a person's sex­ not be subjected to detriment through exer­ ual preference should be his or her own af­ cising a freedom of choice to marry or not fair. It is the Government's view that the or to bear children. Insofar as decisions such criminal law clearly outlines what is unac­ as these are irrelevant to contractual rela­ ceptable sexual behaviour by providing tionships, the Bill affords protection against sanctions. The freedom of choice to engage unequal treatment of persons. in or refuse to engage in lawful sexual activ­ ity must not be restricted by fear of detri­ The concept of "private life" contains ment in the employment, educational, three elements-lawful political belief, reli­ occupational or goods and services areas. It gious belief or disbelief and sexual prefer­ is the Government's belief that the addition ence. It is the view of the Government that of private life to the existing equal oppor­ a person's truly private lawful belief or ac­ tunity framework represents a significant tivity is irrelevant to his or her employ­ step in enhancing the freedom ofexpression ment, education, occupational standing, and choice which is an inalienable human accommodation or receipt of goods and right. services. In introducing the concept of pri­ vate life into the equal opportunity sphere, Other changes under the legislation relate the Government is providing a legislative to Part Ill-Discrimination to which Act statement and protection of the fundamen­ Applies. The current legislation excludes tal rights of belief and expression. employment situations where the total number of employees does not exceed five. In order to continue to protect religious This number has been lowered to three, re­ activities, the general exemption for reli­ flecting a balance of recognizing the more pous bodies has been retained. In addition, private nature of small employment envi­ It will be unlawful for persons to discrimi­ ronments as against the desirability of ex­ nate against others on the basis of religious tending protection to as many employees as belief or disbelief in the areas of employ­ possible. ment, education, occupational standing and in providing goods and services. Clause 32 makes it unlawful for a mem­ ber or members of a municipal or shire Similar provision is made in regard to council to discriminate, other than on the lawful political belief and activity, although basis of political preference, against another honourable members of this House may be member by subjecting that other member relieved by having their attention drawn to to detriment in the performance of his or clause 21 (4) (c), which is an exception con­ her functions. Any person duly elected to cerning the offering ofemployment to a per­ local government office should be able to son as a Ministerial adviser, member of the discharge the responsibilities of that office staff ofa political party, member ofthe elec­ and represent the interests of his or her elec­ toral staff or a person in like employment. torate without being subjected to scorn, rid­ The Government views these beliefs and icule or attack by his or her fellow activities as basic human rights, and dis­ councillors on the basis of his or her status crimination because ofthe expression or ex­ or private life. ercise of such a right should not and will not be tolerated in a democratic state. SEXUAL HARASSMENT The third aspect of private life is sexual The laws of any civilized society con­ preference. I cannot overstress the impor­ demn coercion, extortion or blackmail. Yet, tance of the application of the proposed leg­ there is clear evidence that many Victorians islation to lawful activities. The Crimes Act have to tolerate, in order to avoid detri­ 1958 and the Summary Offences Act 1966 ment, a restriction upon their freedom to contain a variety of offences relating to sex­ accept or reject sexual advances. The poten­ ual behaviour. This Bill in no way affects tial detriment may be as severe as loss of Equal Opportunity Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1147

employment, loss of income or loss of ac­ sons, designed to achieve more equality of commodation. The impact of loss of self­ opportunity, the discrimination provisions esteem is incalculable and the denial of free­ are of no application. This exemption is dom of choice is intolerable. This Bill aims aimed at bona fide programmes which have to protect every person's right to accept or as their objective the protection or reduc­ reject sexual advances. It will be unlawful tion of disadvantage. for employers, supervisors or teachers to Clause 40 reiterates the current power of sexually harass employees or students or the Equal Opportunity Board to grant tem­ permit fellow workers to sexually harass porary exemptions from the provisions of employees. Employment, goods and serv­ the Act. ices or accommodation contracts linked with sexual advances will be unlawful. COMPLAINT: INVESTIGATION, CON­ It is not the intention of the Government CILIATION AND ENFORCEMENT to legislate on good manners but it is its The Bill contains several changes to the intention to provide sanctions, and in the existing machinery with a view to facilitat­ discretion of the Equal Opportunity Board, ing effective administration of the equal op­ quite substantial sanctions, to afford a rem­ portunity legislation. edy against what could only be described in some cases as extortive practices. The sex­ 1. The Commissioner for Equal Oppor­ ual harassment prohibitions extend to all tunity is required to investigate both com­ employment, irrespective of the number of plaints lodged with the Registrar of the employees, because of the significant evi­ Equal Opportunity Board and matters re­ dence of harassment in small organizations ferred by the board. The commissioner's and the vulnerability of sole or small group role is investigative, conciliatory and nego­ employees. tiation-orientated. The board's function is adjudicative. With the passage of this Bill, EXEMPTIONS the commissioner's investigation powers will be the same whether the matter arises Continuing the theme of maximum pro­ by way of complaint or reference from the motion of fundamental rights and free­ board. doms, the general exceptions have been recast to accommodate the additional 2. At present, the commissioner has grounds of discrimination. Pensions, super­ power to act only upon complaint or board annuation, charitable benefits and, as men­ reference. Experience has shown that an in­ tioned before, religious bodies remain vestigation of a complaint often reveals co­ exempt from the application of the pro­ gent evidence of other acts of unlawful posed Act. The philosophy underlying the discrimination. If the complaint is with­ exemption in respect of clubs is the promo­ drawn-not an uncommon occurrence tion of freedom of association for the shar­ given the nature of matters being investi­ ing of mutual interests. However, with the gated-the commissioner has no power to exception of clubs for the advancement of proceed. The Bill provides for investigation persons of a particular status or private life, by the commissioner of those suspected of discrimination on the basis of status or pri­ discrimination practices, other than that vate life will be unlawful if the activities of constituting the basis of the complaint. The the organization take place on Crown land emphasis upon the commissioner's negoti­ or receive State or local government fund­ ation role is retained. ing. Clubs wishing to maintain exclusivity, 3. To assist complainants who live out­ of whatever nature, are free to do so but this side the metropolitan area in the prepara­ Government will not make available to tion of a complaint, it will be possible for general organizations engaging in unaccept­ complaints to be lodged with the clerk of a able discrimination public moneys or ac­ Magistrates Court. cess to public property. 4. The present penalty for failing to com­ Excluded from the ambit of the Act are ply with an order of the Equal Opportunity genuine positive discrimination or affirma­ Board is $1000. It is a demonstration of this tive action programmes. If a plan, pro­ Government's view of the seriousness of gramme or arrangement is for the benefit of discriminatory practices that the penalty for previously disadvantaged classes of per- contravention of an order of the board will 1148 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Melbourne Cricket Ground Bill

be set at $2000, or 20 penalty units, and of the ground. The public facilities include $500, or 5 penalty units, for each day of a extensions to ground-level toilet blocks and continuing contravention. upgraded entrances with ticket boxes and 5. At present, the board has a discretion turnstiles. The additional area will also al­ to award costs against a complainant where low for a new roofed seating deck on the the complaint is frivolous, vexatious, mis­ southern stand and exit stairways for that conceived or lacking in substance. The Bill deck. confers an additional power upon the board Although the financing of the extensions to award costs against a respondent where to the toilet blocks and the new entrances it considers the respondent has behaved un­ will receive some Government assistance, reasonably. This new discretion will go to­ the financing of the additional works will be wards ensuring that the~chanisms for arranged by the Melbourne Cricket Club. redress are not unduly hampered by unrea­ Secondly, the Bill modifies the trustee­ sonable strategies of respondents. ship of the ground to allow more Govern­ 6. The Equal Opportunity Board's pro­ ment and major-user involvement in its ceedings are currently subject to appeal to management and use. the Supreme Court by way of rehearing. The The number of trustees is increased to 21 Bill proposes to limit that right of appeal to with the inclusion of the Minister for Con­ a question of law only to achieve uniform­ servation, Forests and Lands and the Min­ ity with the right of appeal from an order of ister for Youth, Sport and Recreation or a Magistrates Court. their nominees, and a nominee of the Vic­ In conclusion, the Bill represents a legis­ torian Football League and the Victorian lative initiative never before attempted by Cricket Association respectively. an Australian State. It provides a compre­ In accordance with general policy, any hensive and coherent approach to anti-dis­ trustee appointed by the Governor in crimination measures and reflects a careful Council after the comlng into operation of balance of a broad spectrum of community this legislative measure will be required to and individual interests and the promotion retire on reaching the age of 72 years. It is ofequality of opportunity for all Victorians. pointed out, however, that all the present I commend the Bill to the House. trustees will remain in office and will not be On the motion of the Hon. HADDON affected by that age limitation. STOREY (East Yarra Province), the debate At the same time, it is proposed to estab­ was adjourned. lish a small committee of trustees, basically It was ordered that the debate be ad­ comprised of representatives of the Mel­ journed until the next day of meeting. bourne Cricket Club and cricket and foot­ ball interests, to develop policy for the MELBOURNE CRICKET GROUND continued management and use of the BILL ground. Any policy developed by that The Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister ground policy committee shall, if adopted for Conservation, Forests and Lands)-I by the full body of trustees, become the pol­ move: icy under which the ground shall be man­ aged and used. That this Bill be now read a second time. In general, the present interest and role of Its purpose is to provide for the Melbourne the Melbourne Cricket Club in the ground Cricket Ground to be developed, managed is not being altered. The provisions of the and used in the best interests of the public Bill will enhance the Melbourne Cricket at large. It will enable the upgrading of facil­ Ground as a major public resource and I ities and the provision of additional seating commend it to the House. to cater for the large numbers of the foot­ On the motion of the Hon. R. I. ball-loving public using the ground. KNOWLES (Ballarat Province), the debate First, the Bill provides for the addition of was adjourned. a parcel of Crown land to the ground. The additional land is shown on the plan in the The Hon. R. I. KNOWLES (Ballarat schedule and is required for urgently needed Province)-I move: public.facilities and to increase the capacity That the debate be adjourned until Tuesday next. Local Government Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1149

The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for However, there is need for consultation Planning and Environment)-I do not wish and a party room decision is needed. There­ to disagree with the motion, but it has been fore, on behalf of the National Party, I will customary at this stage of a sessional period not be in a position to proceed with the Bill to move the adjournment of a debate until prior to the party meeting next Tuesday. "later this day". Mr Knowles and I have The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for discussed this Bill, and I am not saying that Planning and Environment) (By leave)-I he has any intention of having the Bill accept entirely the comments of the Leader brought on today or tomorrow, but if, as is of the Opposition, and I appreciate the customary, the motion is that the debate be comments of Mr Baxter. It was never my adjourned until later this day, there is more intention to suggest other than that the norm flexibility for the matter to be discussed. should prevail, but this is one of those ur­ gent Bills which the Leader of the Opposi­ The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern tion indicates arises now and again. I am Province)-With great respect to the Leader not saying that it needs to be handled today of the House, who I know is endeavouring or tomorrow, and I understand the need for to put the position as he believes it to be, I it to be dealt with by the parties in the way have to say that he is inaccurate as to the they deal with these matters. custom. At the end of a sessional period, Perhaps I did not put it high enough in the Opposition and the National Party al­ the first instance. I do see this as an urgent ways go out of their way to accommodate Bill and I had hoped that the debate would and to assist the Government with the min­ be adjourned until later this day or the next imum possible adjournments. When legis­ day of meeting, knowing full well that it lation comes from the Legislative Assembly, would not be dealt with until next week. I invariably at this stage of a sessional period accept the wishes of both parties in that we move the adjournment until later this regard. day or until the next day of meeting, as the case may be, depending on how complex The Government sees this Bill as neces­ the Bill is. Where, however, new legislation sary to allow certain works to begin on toi­ lets and stands at the Melbourne Cricket is introduced, as this Bill is, it has always Ground. However, with the assurance, par­ been customary for it to be adjourned until ticularly of Mr Baxter, I do not mind the after the next party meeting. motion standing the way it is-since the I know that in very urgent cases it has parties have had this conversation-but I sometimes been possible to call a special would have preferred a little more flexibil­ party meeting, but that course is not taken ity, even with the prospect of the parties unless there is a great degree of urgency and opposite having a special meeting on this or a special reason for it. The Liberal Party any other matter. and the National Party will meet in the nor­ The motion was agreed to, and the debate mal course next Tuesday, and they will de­ was adjourned until Tuesday, November 29. termine their attitude then. It cannot be determined by an individual but only on a LOCAL GOVERNMENT (GENERAL party basis. AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2) The Labor Party, when in opposition, The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for adopted the same process, and that is the Planning and Environment)-I move: reason for the motion to adjourn the debate until Tuesday next. It has not arisen from That this Bill be now read a second time. any desire to cause delay-on the contrary. This is a Bill to make a range of amend­ The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ ments to the Local Government Act. Hon­ ern Province)-The National Party sup­ ourable members will be aware that the ports the adjournment of the debate until practice in the past has been to introduce Tuesday next, on the grounds outlined by Bills of this nature in the spring sitting and Mr Hunt. The National Party appreciates allow them to lay over until the following the urgency of the Bill and is keen to see it autumn sitting. This was to enable councils passed this sessional period, and it will fa­ and interested community groups to make cilitate its passage. comments. 1150 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Local Government Bill

It was suggested that this procedure to ascertain the extent of opposition or sup­ should be varied because the Christmas re­ port for the proposal. cess often precluded councils from spend­ Although this system may have been ad­ ing sufficient time on the proposed equate in more sedate times, it does not legislation. encourage a council to take an over-all view The suggestion was that the proposed leg­ of its loan requirements. islation should be introduced in the autumn sitting and be considered by Parliament in The Bill provides that in place of this the following spring sitting. piecemeal approach to the raising of loans, a council will be required to prepare an an­ Considerable merit could be seen in this nualloans project budget. The budget is to suggestion, but it was viewed that even contain a list of projects for which the coun­ more detailed consideration could be given cil proposes to borrow money during the if the proposed changes to legislation were next financial year. made available to honourable members of Parliament, councils and other interested The budget will be open for inspection groups and individuals prior to the prepa­ and objection, and once these procedures ration of a Bill. As such, at the beginning of have been undertaken, a council may pro­ July, draft proposals for the Bill were re­ ceed to borrow the necessary money. leased. Subsequently, a representative Importantly, the provision to call for a working party was established to study the poll ofratepayers is not continued. This was draft proposals and any submissions made a matter to which the Government gave on them. considerable thought as it appreciates that The Bill is a product of the draft propos­ some matters for which loans are to be raised als together with refinements and additions could be controversial. . that were considered necessary by those who On balance, however, the Government matter most-those who have to work believes the new procedures will not only within the confines of the Local Govern­ encourage rational planning by councils, but mentAct. also provide. a mechanism for concerned Honourable members will be aware that citizens to express opposition to loan pro­ the Government's policy is to introduce a posals. power of competence for municipal coun­ cils and work is continuing on the prepara­ The second facet ofcompetence dealt with tion of a suitable model. The Bill goes some leads to less State Government involve­ of the way to achieving this: ment in local government affairs. The Local Government Act contains a veritable Firstly, greater autonomy and respon­ plethora of requirements for matters to be sibility for municipal councils; settled by the Governor in Council or by secondly, less State Government in­ the Minister for Local Government. The volvement in local government affairs; Bill proposes to delete most of these re­ and quirements. thirdly, more facility for public input I would like to give honourable members into the deliberations of local councils. an example of one of the requirements in The Bill contains more than 100 pro­ the Local Government Act for which Min­ posed changes to the Local Government Act isterial approval is required. Section 194 and I wish to use some of these changes to provides that, except with the consent of illustrate the importance ofthe Bill as a step the Minister for Local Government, the of­ towards greater competence for municipal fices of the council are to be open for 5 councils. hours each day between the hours of 10 a.m. I mentioned earlier that the Bill embod­ and 4 p.m. The only exceptions to this rule ies three facets ofcompetence. The first facet are Saturdays, Sundays and certain public is autonomy and responsibility. The Local holidays. Government Act currently provides that if Honourable members will agree with me a municipal council wishes to raise a loan that it is ludicrous that the Minister for Lo­ for a particular project it must advertise the cal Government should be involved in such purpose of the loan. The ratepayers of the a matter. The Bill deletes this requirement municipality are then able to call for a poll and leaves such matters for the decision of Local Government Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1151 the council concerned. No one will disagree am sure that local government shares these that this is where it should be. sentiments. Not all Governor in Council or Minister­ Clause notes are attached to the Bill. I ial approvals are of such a minor nature, commend the Bill to the House. but I have used this example to illustrate The Hon. A. J. HUNT (South Eastern just how much Governments have patron­ Province)-I should appreciate it if the ized local government in the past. Leader of the Government would convey to The final facet of competence dealt with the Minister for Local Government in an­ in the Bill is more facility for public input other place my personal congratulations on into the deliberations oflocal councils. an excellent Bill and on the way in which it The present means for members of the has been handled. Furthermore, the com­ public to become involved in the decision­ prehensive notes attached to the Bill make making process of their local council are it readily understandable by all who read very disparate and there has been criticism them. that they lead to confusion. The Bill is a major step forward for local The Bill takes a first step, and I repeat, a government. For years, local government first step, towards providing a standard pro­ was regarded as the creature of State Gov­ cedure for objections by the public to the ernment, responsible to it and able to be proposed actions of their councils. overruled by it. Only in recent years has local government been accepted as a part­ The procedures will enable those who ob­ ner in the system of government in this ject to make submissions to the council. Any country. person making a written objection may ap­ pear before the council or committee of the That partnership was recognized at the council in support of their objection. Constitutional Convention in Hobart some years ago when it recommended that auton­ The council is to take into consideration omy for local ~overnment be written into the objections made and is to give written the State Constltution. Victoria was the first notification of its decision to those who State to act upon that recommendation and lodged objections. That notification is to in­ to give constitutional recognition to the role clude the reasons for the decision. of local government. It is a rational devel­ Because this is a new procedure, it is being opment from that recognition and from the applied only in a limited number of cases. acceptance of local government as a full All of these, however, are of considerable partner in the process of government that importance. In particular, the procedures supervisions that formerly existed at State will apply to sale and leasing of land, the level should be removed. new loan-raising provisions and certain as­ After all, the right of self-government im­ pects of the roading powers of municipali­ plies also the right to make one's own mis­ ties. takes or what are perceived by others to be Once this procedure has been in opera­ mistakes. Honourable members would tion for a period and its effects have been rightly resent at the State level attempts by monitored, there could easily be scope for the Federal Government to overrule deci­ it being expanded considerably. sions of our Parliament or of the Govern­ Four minor amendments were made to ment made in areas where the State had the Bill in another place. A number of other constitutional responsibility. That would be matters have also been considered between regarded as an intrusion and as patronizing. here and another place, but no further alter­ It would be regarded as an assumption that ations are proposed. Nevertheless, these as­ "Big Brother" knows best. So, too, did local pects of the proposed legislation will be kept government regard many of the intrusions under review. of State Government. I am confident that, like local govern­ The biggest achievement of the Bill will ment itself, honourable members will wel­ be to grant a higher degree of autonomy to come the Bill. It is the Government's wish local government and to remove the need that this proposed legislation be enacted this for Governor in Council, Ministerial· or sitting so that these important provisions Auditor-General approval on a wide range can become law as soon as possible, and I of issues. I counted approximately 23 issues 1152 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Local Government Bill where the supervisory role will be removed. should be required when the acquisition is They cover areas such as the acquisition, not by a department or a statutory body. disposal and change of use of land and the When land is to be acquired by local gov­ undertaking of works or the spending of ernment, which is the third level of govern­ money in other municipalities. Instead of ment, it is sanctioned by the local the approval of the State Government, all representatives of the people. The local rep­ that will be required is the consent of the resentatives in the council are much closer other municipality. than any Minister to those affected by the The Bill will also cover a whole range of acquisition. They will be well aware of the activities in relation to roads, including their effect and of any hardship that may be cre­ closure, whether it be for the construction ated. They are the ones who ought to judge of malls or otherwise or for traffic control. the question and accept the criticism, if any, Those measures will be removed from the that arises from the decision. need for Governor in Council approval. The Hon. E. H. Walker-They will cop The Bill, when passed, will give councils the flak. a freer hand to establish road alignments The Hon. A. J. HUNT-That is so; the and to deal with breaches of regulations ball will stop in their court, and that seems arising from the fixing of an alignment. appropriate. The other area that concerned Borrowing powers will be placed in the me related to the placing of obstructions on hands of councils and will not be subject to roads. The fabric of the road system is deli­ intense Government supervision of the kind cate at times and there is an intricate web of that has existed whether the borrowings are roads in Victoria. The closure of one road on mortgage or otherwise. may have a substantial effect upon traffic The establishment of funds for special patterns outside the municipality. purposes will be left, as it ought to be, with However, the municipal council is an the municipalities themselves. elected body and municipalities realize the The establishment of cemeteries, prov­ need for consideration of their neighbours. ided the planning approvals and require­ A municipality that does not have reasona­ ments are complied with, will be a matter ble regard to the interests of its own resi­ for councils alone. dents on the one hand and of travellers from further afield on the other hand will, quite There is also the question of whether the rightly, attract widespread criticism. Mem­ council will ensure that its councillors per­ bers of Parliament should trust local gov­ form work in the course of their duties. Pre­ ernment as it is a sphere of government viously, rate agreements to encourage elected by the public. The Opposition ac­ decentralized industry had to be approved cepts the proposals contained in the Bill. by the Minister. The Bill rightly realizes that The removal of these unnecessary and these are peculiarly matters for the council. unwelcome restraints has also been supple­ In addition, a whole range of minor by­ mented by the grant of new powers to local laws of the kind that previously required government concerning a much wider dis­ conformation at State Government level are cretion to spend funds on cultural activities now simply made by the municipality within the municipality and, with the con­ which, after all, is the elected representative sent of other municipalities, outside the body. municipality. On my first reading of the list I had two The borrowing powers of councils have reservations. The first related to compul­ always been substantially streamlined and sory acquisition. I thought it was fair enough brought up to date, and certainly they meet for councils to make their own decisions on modem needs much better than the old the acquisition of land, but that different provisions that were designed in earlier principles should apply to compulsory ac­ times. quisition. In the past, compulsory acquisi­ Instead of Governor in Council supervi­ tion by any statutory body has required the sion, the Bill provides, in important cases, ultimate sanction of a Minister or the Gov­ for notice of approval to the public by ad­ ernor in Council. When I thought the mat­ vertisement. Notice of approval, if one ter through, I wondered why confirmation thinks about it, is a much more effective Local Government Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1153 way of providing a safeguard than is super­ one or more councils, but in general the vision by a Minister. Notice of approval measure has been widely acclaimed. As a enables those affected by the decision to result of further representations, the Minis­ have their say about it. However, in the ter has made some further small amend­ past, they did not always get that say. Often ments but has refused to make others. The they did not know about the proposals be­ Opposition does not find his actions to be cause they were never published in the press unreasonable. and sometimes decisions were made that drastically affected the rights of individuals I am in the position where I will not use who were not aware of the proposals until the usual words, "the Opposition does not after the event had occurred. The provision oppose the Bill"; on the contrary, the Op­ of this notice is a greater safeguard than position supports the Bill and commends oversight by a Minister. the Minister on it. Combined with the provision for notice The Hon. K. I. M. WRIGHT (North is a much broader provision for public ob­ Western Province)-On behalf of the Na­ jections to proposed decisions. This means tional Party I am happy to contribute to the that the council will have the benefit of the debate on the Bill which contains the usual views of not only its officers but also of its periodical amendments to the Local Gov­ ratepayers before decisions are made. ernment Act. As the Leader of the Opposi­ Frankly, I should have preferred the Bill to tion said, the Bill will give councils more refer to comments rather than objections autonomy and responsibility. After all, that because there may be people who fully sup­ is what the House is seeking. The National port the proposal a council is making and a Party congratulates and commends the jaundiced view may be obtained if only ob­ Minister for the thorough manner in which jections rather than comments are called he has prepared the proposed legislation and for. for distributing draft copies of the Bill and I believe wise councils will probably ask other information to councils and inter­ for both, even though the Bill specifically ested parties prior to July, when he sent out refers to objections. The Bill further widens a letter to councils headed "Local Govern­ the power of councils to defer or waive debts ment (General Amendment) Bill". In that in cases of undue or unusual hardship. The letter he said: phrase "undue or unusual hardship" was my own, which I inserted in a Bill that be­ The Bill will be a significant step along the way to came a rates relieving Act some years ago. greater competency for local government and the effect It applied to the right to waive the whole or of such a move is to allow full consultation before part of rates in case of undue or unusual Parliamentary debate. The major thrust is to increase hardship. The principle is now extended councils' capacity to act. further and applies to debts to the munici­ Therefore, I commend the Bill. I thank the pality generally. councils for their input into consideration The Bill makes one further special provi­ of the Bill. Many of them have forwarded sion of an added allowance for those coun­ copies of their submissions and letters con­ cillors who, instead of retiring in August taining comments to the National Party. I this year, had their elections postponed un­ thank Mr Dan Drew, the Shire Secretary of til November. They served an extra three the Shire of Metcalfe, who was previously months and, therefore, it was necessary to at the Shire of Kerang and the Shire of Mil­ provide for an extra allowance for their ex­ dura. By some strange quirk of fate, I find penses over that period. now that he will be probably in the North The Minister has fully consulted and lis­ Western Province as Harcourt will be in tened to what councils have had to say. He that province. has made innumerable amendments to his draft Bill in light of the comments from The Municipal Association of Victoria municipalities. That is a sensible and proper has indicated to me, through the Acting process for the Government to take, and it Secretary, Mr Keith Brydon, in a circular of is a process that provides a better Bill. 13 July 1983, that the Bill represents: Since the Bill was introduced, numerous ... further recognition oflocal government as a respon­ further representations have been made by sible level of government. 1154 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Local Government Bill

It is recognition by the association that local ment on this as it seems to me to be a reflec­ government has been raised in status, but I tion on the professionalism of the valuer wonder whether the Minister and the Gov­ with that particular municipality. ernment are ~ving with one hand and tak­ Under clause 28, councils are now to be ing away wlth the other. Undoubtedly, ~rmitted to enter into a contract of up to advantages have been given to local ~overn­ $20 000 without calling tenders. Although ment but the pecuniary interests legtslation the calling of tenders is a valuable safe­ has been introduced and entire councils are guard, I commend the Government for this threatening to resign. I instance the Echuca amendment when larger amounts of money council and other councils, and individual are involved, because it is fair and reasona­ councillors. ble that councillors and councils can con­ There has been a provision relating to the tract up to $20 000 without calling tenders, 5 p.m. or later start for council meetings, and this will streamline council operations. and the Minister for Local Government was The amendments are generally of value big enough to admit that the Government to local government and the National Party had made a mistake and that it was not the supports the Bill. kind oflegislation local government wanted. The motion was agreed to. The National Party supports the 100 amendments and the House will be pleased The Bill was read a second time. that I do not propose to comment on each The Hon. E. H. WALKER (Minister for one. Planning and Environment)-By leave, I There are two amendments which I be­ move: lieve to be of significance. The first is con­ That this Bill be now read a third time. tained in clause 15 which refers to section 236 of the Local Government Act relating I would like to thank the Leader of the Op­ to where a council can sell or exchange land position and Mr Wright not only for their vested in a municipality. The National Party support of the Bill, but also for their clear applauds this chan~e because, previously, congratulations to the Minister involved Governor in Counctl approval had been re­ and the fact that they have been through the quired. The Honourable Jock Granter and Bill carefully and consider that the meas­ the Honourable Alan Hunt, Ministers of the ures and the many amendments are of po­ previous Government, will recall my vig­ sitive benefit to local government. It reflects orous representations to have this change well on the House that it is possible for a effected and I believe they were also sym­ measure of this kind to come into the House pathetic to those representations. and be understood by those speaking to it. It reflects a bipartisan approach that does Some of the representations were on be­ the speakers credit and does the Minister half of the First Mildura Irrigation Trust, credit, that he has done his work well to the Gordon Shire Council, and the City of have that support from the community and Swan Hill, three authorities which were un­ members of the Opposition. fortunately detrimentally affected by this proposed legislation. Surely local people A comment about compulsory acquisi­ elected to local councils should be the best tion was made by Mr Hunt who indicated judges in this regard. after thought, that it was a sensible amend­ Secondly, there have been many objec­ ment. I agree with the notion of comment tions to clause 15 from municipalities be­ rather than objection being a much better cause of the belief that, even though stance when one is dealing with planning. It municipalities have been given this juris­ is true that the terminology of submission diction, a valuation is still required from is used widely rather than objection. I be­ the Valuer-General. Again I say that the lieve the notion of comment or submission councils and their officers are surely the best is much better than objection. I appreciate judges in the matter. The requirement to the honourable member's comments in that obtain this valuation from the Valuer-Gen­ regard. I note his comments about extra al­ eral means that councils must pay for val­ lowances. uations when many of those councils have Mr Wright mentioned a couple of mat­ qualified valuers on their staff but cannot ters and asked me to comment, but I believe use them. Perhaps the Minister could com- I should transfer those matters to the Min- Water (Amendment) Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1155 ister himself. The notion that there has been they relate to the powers of acquisition. It a reflection on valuers I will take to the will also be necessary to validate all pre­ Minister for Local Government. I note Mr vious acquisitions by water authorities if Wright's comments on clause 28 about the the legal doubts currently existing are to be power to contract to $20 000 without for­ removed. mal tender procedure. I agree that it is a Thus, clause 5, relating to acquisition, is sensible position. I appreciate the construc­ intended solely to provide a power which tive and reasonable comments of honoura­ has previously been accepted as having ex­ ble members about the Bill. I shall indicate isted since 1906. to the Minister that Mr Hunt regards this measure as a major step forward for local I should add, for the information of hon­ government and I appreciate it. I congratu­ ourable members, that the proposed late Mr Wright for the extensive consulta­ amendment does not in any way relate to tion that he undertook in submitting matters the matter of compensation payable follow­ that he raised. ing the initiation of acquisition procedures. Compensation payable to landowners is The motion was agreed to, and the Bill covered by the provisions of the Lands was read a third time. Compensation Act 1958 and the Valuation WATER (AMENDMENT) BILL of Land Act 1960 which are already incor­ porated in the Water Act for the purpose of The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister of determining the amount of compensation Water Supply)-I move: payable in each case. That this Bill be now read a second time. As honourable members are aware, the Government was elected on a platform of The amendments proposed in clause 4 of reform of Government administration and the Bill stem from a proposal by the De­ this small machinery Bill is another minor partment of Management and Budget that step towards that end. I commend the Bill the authorization for the Water Commis­ to the House. sion to construct works, re-enacted an­ nually in the Works and Services On the motion of the Hon. R. J. LONG Appropriation Acts, be removed from those (Gippsland Province), the debate was ad­ Acts and be included in the Water Act. To journed. put this proposal into effect, the proposed It was ordered that the debate be ad­ amendment also clarifies in the Water Act journed until later this day. the power of the commission to construct PROBATE DUTY (AMENDMENT) State works of water supply for which funds BILL have been allocated by Parliament. State works of water supply historically The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for have included water supply, drainage, sal­ Minerals and Energy)-I move: inity mitigation, river management, and That this Bill be now read a second time. flood mitigation, and these terms have been included in the Bill to put beyond doubt the The purpose of the Bill is to facilitate the extent of the commission's authority to un­ administration of estates of deceased per­ dertake works of this nature. sons where the date of death occurs on or after 1 January 1984 and when probate duty In preparing the Bill, the opportunity has will not be payable. been taken to rectify a related matter; this concerns all authorities, including the Water Honourable members will be aware that Commission, which derive their power to legislation was passed by the previous Gov­ acquire land under the Water Act. Recent ernment abolishing the imposition of pro­ legal advice has cast doubt on the powers of bate duty in stages, with complete abolition acquisition under the Water Act and it is taking effect in respect of deaths occurring considered important that this matter be on or after 1 January 1984. However, that put beyond doubt. The problem has arisen legislation did not contain provisions to re­ because the legal view now is that the Water move the requirement for administrators Act incorporates the provisions of the Lands and executors of estates to comply with cer­ Compensation Act only so far as they relate tain procedural requirements. As the legis­ to the payment of compensation and not as lation stands at present, the executor of an 1156 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Probate Duty (Amendment) Bill estate of a person who dies on or after 1 on 31 December 1983. I commend the Bill January 1984 will still be required to lodge to the House. with the Commissioner of Probate Duties a The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN statement of the assets and liabilities of the (Western Province)-The Opposition sup­ deceased person and will be unable to deal ports the Bill which arises as a consequence with the assets of the estate without first of the total abolition of probate duty as from obtaining section 14 or clearance certifi­ the end of December. For some time it has cates from the Commissioner. of Probate been necessary, even in the case of exempt Duties. In other words, the estate wilt be estates such as those where assets pass to frozen until these formalities are complied children or grandchildren, to still file a non­ with, notwithstanding that probate duty will dutiable return and to obtain probate duty no longer be payable and there is nothing to certificates. This has been inevitable, due to be gained by preserving these formalities. the fact that it was still necessary to dem­ This Bill, therefore, amends the principal onstrate to the Commissioner of Probate Act to provide that the procedural sections Duties that the estate attracted the exemp­ of the principal Act will not apply to estates tion owing to the fact that the assets passed of persons who die on or after 1 January to persons in the exempt classes. 1984. Executors of estates will not be re­ Because it was still possible for estates to, quired to lodge statements of assets and in some cases, attract duties-for instance, liabilities and will be able to administer where assets were of sufficient size and were those estates without first having to obtain left to cousins or persons outside the lim­ section 14 or clearance certificates from the ited close families class-it has been neces­ Commissioner of Probate Duties. sary to still require the issue of section 14 or clearance certificates under the Act. Sections 31, 32 and 33 of the principal Act will, however, remain in effect for the No probate duties will apply to deaths as time being. These sections provide for cer­ from 1 January 1984 in respect of assets in tain fees to be charged in connection with Victoria, whether or not a person was dom­ the obtaining of a grant of probate or letters iciled in Victoria. It is for those reasons that of administration. These fees are charged it is an unnecessary impost on the executor by the Registrar of Probates and not by the or administrator to require him to lodge a return. It is also an unnecessary expense for Commissioner of Probate Duties. The ra­ the department to administer these returns. tionalization of these sections, along with If the department has to process returns and others relating to the issue of a grant of pro­ provide certificates for each asset, that costs bate or letters of administration, is cur­ money and, although that cost was justified rently under examination and the sections when probate duty was collected, it is not should continue to operate until that proc­ justified when probate duty no longer ap­ ess has been completed. plies. This amendment is consequential to Finally, section 39 of the principal Act, the abolition of probate duty. which was introduced in 1962, makes pro­ I am thankful that the abolition of pro­ vision for people to prepay probate duty. bate duty was carried out under the admin­ The prepayment scheme works in such a istration of the Liberal Government way that, on the death of the person who because, if it were up to the present Govern­ has made the prepayment, a rebate is de­ ment, the amendment would not be neces­ ducted from the probate duty payable. The sary because probate duty would still be on rebate is calculated on a sliding scale, from the statute-book. There is a consequential nil where the prepayment is made in the amendment, as are the provisions relating twelve months before the date of death, up to the refund of the prepayment of probate to a maximum of$32 for every $20 prepaid duty. That was a type of insurance scheme where the prepayment is made more than whereby people obtained credit towards the twenty years before the date of death. This ultimate payment of probate duty by mak­ Bill makes provision for prepayments held ing contributions towards that anticipated in the Probate Duty Prepayment Account duty during their lifetime. Obviously, if to be returned to the payers together with those persons are still alive after 1 January the amount of rebate which would be al­ next, they will breathe a sigh of relief, as will lowed if the death of the payer had occurred their family, and ask for their money back. Probate Duty (Amendment) Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1157 There is provision for some form ofinterest The tax flowed through and had a dramatic to apply to those payments. effect. I hope Victorians never see the day The Opposition supports the measure as when probate duty legislation is again put it is necessary and practicable and wishes on the statute-book. I am frightened that the Bill a speedy passage. some members of the Government may have their way in regard to probate duty, The Hon. B. P. DUNN (North Western and I hope the Minister for Minerals and Province)-The House can be thankful for Energy is not one of them. However, some the further explanation by Mr Chamberlain of his colleagues have been murmuring on this Bill. The National Party certainly around the State that they may favour a supports the measure because it is well reintroduction of probate duty. I do not in­ known Australia-wide for the stand it took tend to name any of them, but that thought on the probate issue. The National Party in is in the backs of the minds of some mem­ Queensland was the first in Australia to bers of the Government, and it concerns me abolish probate duty, and that action fur­ that, if the Government obtains the num­ ther forced other States to follow a similar bers in both Houses of Parliament, it could course of action and remove probate duty. well reintroduce probate duty in this State. I commend the former Liberal Govern­ ment and the present Labor Government The Hon. W. R. Bo:ter-That is the first for continuing that action, although being thing it will do. under some pressure to do so. The Hon. B. P. DUNN-The only thing I well remember the strong arguments and that would stop it from doing that would be debates that took place in this Chamber and the knowledge that the flow of capital that in the other place to try to get the Govern­ is going out of this State to other States of ment to see the light ofday on probate duty. Australia where probate duty does not exist The real effect of it was to break up families would double and perhaps quadruple. in the farming world; it hit the farming in­ The National Party will fight the imposi­ dustry extremely hard because its income is tion of probate duty at every turn, regard­ basically earned through capital, which is less of which party is in office in Victoria, land. Probate duty was designed centuries and I make that commitment clear to the ago to try to break up family estates and people of Victoria. large family farms. Its net effect in Victoria The National Party has never had to over the years was to break up family farms question its stand on the broad issue of pro­ and, in some cases, put in jeopardy the live­ bate duty; that stand has always been one of lihoods of individuals in that farming op­ total opposition, and that is how it will re­ eration. main. The National Party supports the pro­ I know a number of people who are still visions in the Bill. It seems absolutely paying off debts that were incurred under unrealistic that estates that have now been that probate legislation in Victoria. Some of excluded from paying probate duty have still them had to sell portions of their farming had to file a return and statement. Those properties to pay a tax to the Government estates were frozen until the matter had been and, for the rest of their farming days, were considered, even though those people will placed in a situation where their properties not be subject to probate duty under the were not big enough to support them and measure that is to come into effect from 1 their families. That occurred just because January next year. they were required to pay an inequitable tax The National Party supports the Bill and to the Government. reaffirms its commitment to fight at every Many people built up this asset by earn­ turn to stop the reintroduction of probate ing income and paying tax all their lives and duty in this State. still, on the death of a member of the fam­ ily, were again taxed through this probate The Hon. J. W. S. RADFORD (Bendigo system. Province)-This is a very important Bill. It has been found from previous experience The Hon. B. A. Chamberlain-It was a that probate duty has had a severe effect on tax which fed on inflation as well. families that work hard to accumulate land The Hon. B. P. DUNN-That is true, into a viable economic unit. As has been particularly in the valuation of properties. said by previous speakers, in general, the Session 1983-46 1158 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 Transport (Borrowing Agency) Bill rural sector could be seen to be asset-rich would have reintroduced probate taxes in but cash-poor. The situation occurred when Australia either on a State basis or by the probate duty was in force; when people were Federal Government on behalf of the States. forced into taking out life insurance policies However, because a National Party is in to provide for the future. The value of in­ office in Queensland again, we are safe­ surance policies that were taken out to cover guarded for the time being. However, let it the probate duty situation some years ago not be thought that the situation will last was calculated on the assumed value of the forever. The people of Victoria must be vig­ assets at that time, but general inflation, in­ ilant and fight these iniquitous taxes. cluding land values, meant that the sums were a mere pittance compared with the The motion was agreed to. probate duty that could be due. The Bill was read a second time, and If there were a reintroduction of probate passed through its remaining stages. duty, it would be a disaster, particularly for owners of rural properties who obtain a TRANSPORT (BORROWING small return on their capital. That is an ac­ AGENcy) BILL cepted fact and the Minister for Minerals This Bill was received from the Assembly and Energy, being a trained economist-as and, on the motion ofthe Hon. E. H. Walker he tells the House so often-would be well (Minister for Planning and Environment), aware of that fact. The Minister has boasted for the Hon. R. A. MACKENZIE (Minister about his economic ability, and I am quite for Conservation, Forests and Lands), was pleased that he is in charge of this Bill. If he read a first time. uses his own common sense, he will never reintroduce a probate Bill into this House. STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION I support the measure because it will al­ (CLEARANCE OF LINES) BILL leviate the threat to the family farm. The need to break up the large estates that oc­ The debate (adjourned from October 26) curred in the eighteenth and nineteenth on the motion of the Hon. D. R. White centuries, particularly in European com­ (Minister for Minerals and Energy) for the munities, was the reason for the introduc­ second reading of this Bill was resumed. tion of probate duty. However, that The Hon. D. G. CROZIER (Western situation has not existed in Victoria for Province)-When the Minister for Min­ some time, and now threatens only viable erals and Energy introduced the Bill some family farms. weeks ago, he concluded his second-reading I am glad that the Bill is before the House. speech by observing that: I trust honourable members will never see It is to further the awareness and to reduce the pos­ the like of it again. sibility of a recurrence of devastating bush tires that The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ this legislation is being introduced. ern Province)-I should like to join Mr With the onset ofanother fire-danger period Dunn in supporting the Bill but also sound and with memories of the Ash Wednesday a warning to the people of Victoria that they holocaust still vivid, any proposed legisla­ should not be complacent in believing that tion that purports to make the State safer probate duty has gone forever because, with from the recurrence of a tragedy of that sort Socialist Governments in office around will have the support of every sensible per­ Australia, Victorians are in mortal danger son. of having this sort of legislation placed on the statute-book again. The people of Vic­ On hearing the Minister's second-reading toria have much for which to thank the Na­ speech, my first reaction was that the Bill tional Party of Queensland in this respect. was required and would have an easy pas­ Queensland led the way and forced the other sage. That still may be the case, but the States of Australia to abandon this iniqui­ House should be taken through some of the tous tax. The people of Victoria should developments that have occurred since the thank the Queensland National Party for second-reading speech. winning an election a fortnight ago by an During the debate on the motion for the overwhelming majority because, if Social­ adjournment of the sitting on 20 Septem­ ists had come into office in Queensland, they ber, I stated: State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1159

The second problem concerns the exact powers. of Opposition has decided to do its best to the commission in requiring landowners, where a SIn­ effect some substantial changes to the pro­ gle wire earth return traverses any land .which ~s. in posed legislation. I give the Minister full timbered country or afforested country, In requmng credit because he has taken on board the those lines to be kept clear. opinions of the Opposition and, as a conse­ I suggest to the Minister that if, on ~rt~er researc~, quence, he proposes to introduce a ~ompre­ he considers the powers of the commIssIon to be In hensive series of amendments, which go a need of strengthening, I would be confident he would long way towards meeting the objections of have the assistan~ of the Opposition in any amend­ the Opposition. I also commend the hon­ ment he may consider to be appropriate. ourable gentleman for making available to The Minister made reference to that state­ members of the Opposition some senior of­ ment, and I am happy to indicate that I am ficers of the State Electricity Commission. approaching the debate on ~half of the O,?­ I have had the benefit of several lengthy position in exactly that splnt. However, ~t has not been without some necessary revI­ discussions with Mr Weatherhead as well as sion of the proposed legislation. I commend Mr Tony Wilson of the State Elec~ricity the Minister for the approach that he has Commission. I am grateful for th~s~ diSCUS­ taken to the various representations and sions, and am grateful to the Minister for criticisms that have been offered. the approach he has adopted throughout the negotiations. After my first reaction that the Bill was I will deal in some further detail with the perfectly desirable and was .l~rgely a me­ Bill and the proposed amendments that chanical measure, on examining the pro­ have been circulated. posed legislation, I found that reaction ~o The principal concern is the transfer of be a fallacious assessment. Whether Wit­ liability. The Bill provides a massive and tingly or unwittingly, the p~ncipal effect of open-ended transference ofliability that has the Bill is not simply to dehneate or ~t~er horrendous potential for harm, not only f?r delineate the powers of the Stat~ Electnclty those victims of a future fire holocaust In Commission in requiring occupiers of land terms of being able to seek redress through traversed by private line.s to accept the re­ common law for any recovery of damage to sponsibilities for the l!1alntenanc~ of those property and assets that were not fully ~n­ installations, but prOVides a ~as~lve trans­ sured or insured at all, but also regarding fer of liability from the commission to var­ the total vulnerability of an occupier who, ious individuals and land managers around for whatever reason, IS placed in the invidi­ the State. I do not know whether that was ous position of having a fire caused by the intentional but that opinion was confirmed failure of electrical installations on land that after members of the Opposition consulted he owns or controls. various organizations, ~ncluding ~h~ Victo­ rian Farmers and Graziers ASSOCiation, the I am satisfied that the proposed amend­ Rural Fire Brigades Ass<;lciation, the In.sur­ ments to the Bill are a codification of re­ ance Council of Austraha Ltd and vanous sponsibilities as outlined in a st:n~ll pamphlet issued by the S~te Electnclty municipalities around the State. Members Commission. The pamphlet IS excellent and of the Opposition have also h~~ the bene~t contains diagrams that assist customers to of consultation with the Municipal Assoc~­ understand where their responsibilities lie. ation of Victoria. In addition, the OPPOSI­ tion has had the benefit of an opinion from I have discussed the matter with the Pres­ Mr Barnard QC. Mr Chamberlain ap­ ident and the Minister for Minerals and En­ proached M; B~rnard, who I?r?vided Mr ergy, and I understand that it is in order Chamberlain With a letter raising doubts that the content of the pamphlet as well as about the transfer of liability and the ero­ the diagrams be incorporated in H ansard sion of common law rights. The letter con­ for the purposes of reference and clarifica­ firmed the suspicions of members of the tion. Opposition. The pamphlet states: Those suspicions were further confirmed All apparatus needed to take electricity fro~ your' point of supply is YOUR RESPONSIBILIT.Y, m~lud­ by a similar opin~on from t~e. Insurance ing the overhead power line between the pomt ot s~p­ Council of Austraha Ltd and It IS for those ply and your building(s)-defined . as "Aer!all reasons and the reasons advanced by the Consumer's Mains" (but often called a Pnvate Servlce~ Municipal Association of Victoria that the Line). 1160 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill

The Bill states: Bill that he has circulated; in other words that the regulations that flow from "Maintenance", in relation to a private electric line thi~ includes the keeping of the whole or any part of a t~ measure will be strictly in accordance with clear ofthe line. del~neation of responsibility, which is de­ Certainly, it does, but "maintenance" also scnbed very adequately and succinctly in means a great deal more. The common law the SEC document which I sought to incor­ meaning and dictionary definition of main­ porate in Hansard earlier. tenance is "to continue in existence or to I raise that point, firstly, with that request keep in its present state." and, secondly, to explain that I do have some residual doubts about the vexed tech­ One of the few residual worries I have nical area, but I do not believe I have sub­ about the legislative measure is the difficult sta~tial reason to do more than simply raise area of attempting to define the nexus be­ the Issue. tween responsibility and liability. I shall not The Bill, as it is foreshadowed it will be ta~e the House ~hrough a lay~an's interpre­ tatIon of what IS clearly a hIghly technical amended, removes most, if not all, the prin­ and legal area .and !->ne that I suspect may cipal objections to the Bill by the Liberal have to be declded In the courts during the Party. Appropriately, there has been con­ life of the measure. I hope that does not siderable discussion about the point of sup­ occur, especially as a consequence of events ply and that is the reason I requested that this summer. the SEC document be included. It ought to put this beyond reasonable doubt, although Nevertheless, it will be of concern to some I hasten to add that in my view the defini­ people that because of clear delineation of tion of "point of supply" in proposed sec­ responsibility, in my opinion, there is also tion 58 is an adequate description for a liability and that liability is perhaps ex­ translation of this situation. tended by the restrictions that may be placed on an individual by virtue of the Bill and Doubts have been expressed by munici­ the regulating power in the Bill under pro-­ palities and by the Municipal Association posed section 65. of Victoria about the new concept of de­ It is reasonable to expect that proposed clared areas. The Minister and officers of legislation of this sort will have attached to the commission have explained what is in­ it or as part of it a regulatory power, and tended, and that is reasonable. It is emi­ there is a substantial regulatory power de­ nently reasonable that the objective ought lineated in proposed section 65. It is argua­ to be that a code of practice on tree clearing ble, especially in the light of the timely should be accepted State-wide with such ex­ introduction th~s morning by my Leader, emptions to meet particular circumstances Mr Hunt, of a Bill about self-regulation that as the Minister, in consultation with any, there is an enormous temptation by oo;.eau­ Ministerial colleague, sees fit to grant but, cracies everywhere to achieve their own ob­ for some municipalities, there is a feeling jectives by regulation if legislation is that if the administration of the power is im;ufficient for that purpose. hasty or heavy-handed, municipalities will In making that somewhat cynical com­ be compelled to adhere to this code of prac­ ment, I exclude specifically any imputation tice or anything that is subsequently ac­ of personal intent relating to the present cepted perhaps rather sooner than they are officers of the State Electricity Commission, able to do so. for whom I have a high regard both as indi­ The point has already been made that be­ yid~s and as professionals. However, leg­ fore an area is declared, there is nothing in IslatIon has to be de-personalized and the Bill which would require either the Min­ honourable members have to treat as such ister or the commission to take the advice legislation which uses them in the same way. of the municipality concerned. I do not It would assist the House to have an as­ doubt in practical terms that that will be surance from the Minister that it will cer­ done. tainly not be the intention of his The Bill, as it will be amended, is accept­ Administration to erode the position which able to the Liberal Party. I would certainly I believe is now reasonably re-established be interested in the Minister's comments on by the foreshadowed amendments to the the regulatory power and I would like his State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1161

assurance that it will not be the intention of material in question and, after discussion the commission to use the powers which it with H ansard, has given his approval for will have when the Bill becomes law to­ the incorporation. for want of a better term-require the oc­ The Hon. D. R. WHITE-Which part of cupiers or those responsible for the mainte­ the pamphlet? nance of private lines to effect The Hon. B. A. Chamberlain-The whole improvements and, in some cases, re-instal­ pamphlet. lation, without considering the practical The DEPUTY PRESIDENT-Order! realities of their doing so: First, of course, is The incorporation in H ansard is of the the financial cost and, second, is the availa­ illustrations, and reference may be made in bility of registered electrical contractors. the debate to the other material. I understand at present there is some con­ Leave was granted, and the illustrations cern in certain areas where the SEC is ac­ were as follows: tive, and understandbly so with the fire season so close, in requiring line improve­ ments where the individual owner or occu­ pier is just physically unable to meet those requirements. That is a matter for adminis­ tration, not legislation or regulation, and is something which I am sure wiU he ad­ dressed. Overall, on first examination the Bill proved unacceptable to the Opposition but because ofthe Minister's willingnes& to con­ sider these criticisms and to react to. them, and because of the consultation that has oc­ PRIVATE OVERHEAD lINE..-I"· . aJlTed with officers of the commission, to (Aerial Consumer's Mains) ~ members of the Opposition and other inter­ ested parties, the Bill, as it will be. amended, Tne SEC mamtalns up to a MAXIMUM of 20 metres IT'om the road if supply to your property is by means of a se~ice is acceptable~ I hope the basic objectives line. but keeping trees on your property clear 0.1 that service espoused in the Minister's second-reading line IS your responSIbility. speech will be achieved without, shall I say, the erosion ofindividual common law rights which were the concern of those who origi­ nally examined the Bill. The HaD. D. R. WIHTE (Minister for Minerals and Energy) (JJy leave)-DuriJll Mr Croziers contribution, he sought leave to incorporate in H ansard a drawing that appears in an SEC pamphlet on private overhead power lines, Safety and Responsi­ bility. The Hon. B. A. Cluunberlain-The whole PRIVATE OVERHEAD LINES pamphlet. TIle Hon. D. R. WHITE-I am more than happy for the drawings to be incorpor­ / 'Point of ated in Hansard. I Wlderstand that Mr Cro­ Supply' zier has spoken to the President about the incorporation. I seek your advice, Mr Dep­ - uty President. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (the Hon. K. I. M. Wright}-Order! In response to the matter raised by the Minister for Minerals Wtoere a substation IS loca!ed on your prop~rty. you and Energy and Mr Crozier, I can inform arl! responSIble for all ovefhead lines from the sub­ the House that the President has viewed the station to the btuldmg(sl. 1162 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill

bears repeating. As he pointed out, in that holocaust there were 46 deaths and damage worth some $200 million; 1719 homes were lost; 82 commercial premises were de­ stroyed; 1238 farms were damaged; 23 dair­ ies were destroyed; 85 000 hectares of public land were affected by fire, and 7000 cattle and 18 000 sheep were destroyed.

The fire was of such intensity and such horror that it was depicted around the world. In June of this year, while representing this Parliament, I was in the Y osemite National Park in California and the issue of the fire was raised with me by the fire chief of that park. The impression given in news reports in California was that the fire was so bad that Californian fire fighters could be called out to assist us here in Victoria. It is inter­ esting that Sir Esler Barber, in his earlier report, compared the fire proneness of Vic­ toria with the fire proneness of the west coast of the United States of America. An interesting point that came from my discussion with that fire chief is that in Cal­ ifornia it is mandatory for any fire fighter or forest worker working within a potential fire­ fighting area to be equipped with a fire shel­ ter, which is an aluminiumized tent that has been proved to save lives in circumstances such as those that existed in Victoria on that day. I know the various agencies in Victoria examined those fire shelters last year and perhaps on previous occasions. There have been further discussions this year, and I hope the Minister will urge his colleagues to give consideration to the issu­ ing of fire shelters to fire fighters. The shel­ ters are individual items of equipment which are hung on one's belt. The cost is approximately $80 each and, taking into ac­ count the cost of life and the heartache in SEC HiGH VOLTAGE LINE. human terms, the shelters would be an ex­ (Attached above transformer at SEC substation) cellent investment. If it is good enough for Californians to make those shelters co m­ 'pulsory equipment, it is good enough for Victorians to do so. In his report on the fires of 1977, Sir Esler The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN Barber recommended that the State Elec­ (Western Province)-There is no doubt that tricity Commission maintain its assets to a the need for the Bill was highlighted by the high standard and that trees and power lines events of Ash Wednesday. The Minister's be completely separated. Since 1977, much second-reading speech, which spelt out the effort has been put into that programme. It results of the fire of 16 to 18 February 1983, has been said that there has sometimes been State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1163

an over-reaction, and various environmen­ which this has been tackled is an ideal ex­ talists, councils and individuals have been ample of a bipartisan approach to impor­ upset at what they saw as the savage man­ tant legislation. ner in which trees were attacked. In a town in the electorate I represent, ornamental As Mr Crozier has pointed out, the com­ trees that had reached their full height were mission is energetically pointing out to peo­ cut back because it was suggested that they ple their obligation to maintain private would ultimately reach the power lines. It power lines, that obligation being imposed was not known by those doing that work by the agreements under which the private that the trees which were clear of the power power lines were first established. He also lines were already at full height. pointed out that some requirements of the commission cannot be met by a qualified The inquiry recommended that the State electrician. Electricity Commission should inform its A constituent from the Pigeon customers of their rights and duties. To Ponds-Harrow area wrote to me stating that some extent that is what the Bill is all about. he had received a notice from the commis­ The commission has a.ttempted to do that sion informing him that, unless he replaced by a number of projects, one of which has a line within fourteen days, his power would been alluded to by Mr Crozier in the form be disconnected. He approached his electri­ of a pamphlet which is a newer version of cian who agreed to do the work, but there prior pamphlets. Those documents bring were 40 or 50 properties in front of his and home to people their responsibilities. The it will be a considerable time before compli­ commission has more to do in that regard. ance with the notice can be achieved. I hope In answer to a question on notice yester­ the commission will consider that type of day, the Minister indicated that something situation sympathetically. in the order of $48 000 was spent on prod­ The Minister's statement points out the ucing a report to Victoria by the commis­ various methods that have been imple­ sion earlier this year on general issues. I mented to restrict the danger of fire by the should have thought that it was more im­ use of fuses, spreaders to prevent lines from portant for the commission to advise peo­ clashing, more regular inspections, tree lop­ ple of their rights and obligations in relation ping and inspection of poles. to this issue. I pay tribute to my colleague, Mr Crozier, One matter that has emerged from the for the work he has put into this issue. Mr fires in the Western District earlier this year Crozier and I do not quite agree on the con­ is that the pole inspection programme IS in clusions that he has reached, but he has con­ some way lacking. I am not sure whether structively tackled the Bill and I am sure some technology can be utilized to improve the Minister will recognize that the attitude the service. I understand that the normal of Mr Crozier and the Opposition has been method of inspecting a pole is to whack it constructive. It has recognized that prob­ with the back of an axe. That may be an lems need to be addressed and that there is over-simplification, but I wonder whether a need to provide a system which in some the sorts of problems that arose-particu­ way mirrors the public documents prov­ larly in the Branxholme area-should have ided by the State Electricity Commission. been foreseen. There is no doubt that because of the efforts The general purpose of the Bill as out­ of Mr Crozier, the Municipal Association lined by the Minister is, firstly, to clarify the of Victoria and others-- question of ownership of and responsibility for private electricity lines; secondly, to provide legislative support for a code of The Hoo. B. P. Duoo-And the National practice concerning the cutting of trees ad­ Party. jacent to power lines and to establish a Tree Oearance Consultative Committee; thirdly, The Hoo. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN-I to require private property owners to keep dare say the National Party has also taken trees on their land clear of. certain power an interest in it. This issue is of interest to lines, and to fourthly, make provision for the whole community, and the manner in regulations. 1164 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill

Concern has been expressed that the Bill edge. The problem arising from this is not so much unwittingly-and I say that advisedly-will that the ignorance or incapacities of a particular occu­ have much wider ramifications than the pier may place his own person and property at risk, Minister foresaw. but, that because electrical installations contain a vast potential for harm, the rest of the community is put at I do not want in any way to imply an risk. underhanded or intended effect other than Those comments and subsequent com­ that expressed by the Minister in the sec­ ments are relevant to the Bill. I fear that the ond-reading speech and in the Bill. I do not amendments foreshadowed by the Minister consider that even the amendments fore­ do not fully redress the issues adverted to shadowed by the Minister will necessarily by Mr Bamard. An obligation is placed on provide the guarantee that there will not be the occupier under proposed section 60 (1) unwitting results. which states: I shall read three paragraphs of an opin­ Except as provided in sub-section (2), an occupier of ion ofMr John Bamard, Queen's Counsel, land above or below the surface of which there is a to which my collea.sue, Mr Crozier, re­ private electric line shall be responsible for mainte­ ferred. Mr Bamard, QC, has had consider­ nance of the line. able experience in this field. Because of his The extension to any property is dictated by experience and his examination of and in­ the State Electricity Commission, which sets volvement with the Esler Barber inquiry and all the rules and stipulates the types of ma­ subsequent inquiries, he is in a good posi­ terials to be used. It is proposed that in cer­ tion to comment on this issue. In a letter to tain cases it will be able to stipulate that the me on 10 November, Mr Bamard, QC, line be laid under~ound and will stipulate stated: the total specificatIons to be followed. How­ In my view ifthe provisions of this Bill become law ever, it appears that no responsibility will it will have two alarming consequences. Firstly, it will be taken by the State Electricity Commis­ shift the legal responsibility for private service lines in sion. such a way as to make the death and destruction expe­ rienced in this State on Ash Wednesday, and on pre­ As pointed out by Mr Bamard, QC, it is vious occasions, more likely in the future. Secondly, it not just the owner of the property or the will seriously erode the common law rights of Victori­ property next door that will be the potential ans. This is all done under the cover of a Bill which victim; it may be a property 20 miles away, purports to require "occupiers of land and others to as was evidenced on Ash Wednesday. In maintain electric lines and to keep trees clear of those relation to the regulation-making power, a lines". real danger exists that the effect could be to place the onus on the occupier of a prem­ The fact is, electricity and the installations used for its supply are rarely properly understood by the lay­ ises, which would leave little residual onus man. The supply and distribution of electricity is or responsibility on the commission. understood and controlled by a specialised area of I should like the Minister to consider the technology. That technology has, in the past, been form of the regulations because the regula­ provided wholly by the State Electricity Commission tion-making powers contained in the Bill of Victoria. It is true that past experience and the find­ ings of Boards of Inquiry have shown that the SECV on the maintenance of lines are extremely has failed in exercising the care necessary in the supply broad. I am not saying that the current . of this dangerous commodity. It has never been sug­ Administration would do that, but given gested that the supervision and control of the supply of regulations in the past-not so much those electricity should rest in any other hands than those contained in the Bill foreshadowed by Mr who have the technical knowledge to properly provide Hunt today-that are passed with little pur- such supervision and control. . view by anyone, it is important that the Minister spells out the implications of the However, this Bill takes the responsibility for part of regulation-making powers. If it is possible this supply system out of the hands of those who have to use the power to place considerable onus the technical knowledge and places it in the hands of on the occupier, no residual responsibility occupiers. These occupiers may be irresponsible or re­ sponsible, they may be physically fit or physically dis­ may be placed on the commission. I know abled. They may be young or enfeebled by age. Above that is not the Minister's intention, but it all it places the responsibility in the hands of those would be possible for it to happen under the without understanding or appropriate technical knowl- provisions. State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1165

I am unhappy about the Bill because I do work carried out in consultation with the not consider the full implications of its pro­ Minister and other persons by Mr Crozier, visions are known. Last night I attended a the shadow Minister. I pay tribute to the conference with officers of the State Elec­ work done by the honourable member for tricity Commission and Mr Crozier in which Polwarth, Mr Burgin, in another place. His three legal opinions were given. Two of these experience has been valuable in discussions were from eminent Queen's Counsel-Mr that have been taking place in the party A. W. McDonald, QC, on behalf of the committee that has been considering the Bill commission and Mr John Barnard, QC­ and its enormous implications, especially who gave different opinions. The view of on rural settlements. I appreciate that the solicitors acting on behalf of the Municipal Minister has done the right thing in bring­ Association of Victoria was also given. The ing the Bill before the House after the dis­ ideal way of handling this matter would be astrous effects the State suffered earlier this for issues to be examined by a Parliamen­ year from bush fires that caused enormous tary committee. The Minister obviously damage and loss of life. No one would like would not be attracted to that course of ac­ those experiences to occur again. tion. The alternative I suggest to the Minis­ ter is that the operation of the Bill should Last summer there was limited growth in be delayed for six months to give the com­ northern Victoria but the situation has cer­ munity time to gear up to it and time for tainlyaltered this season because there has the legal experts to whom I refer, to be given been considerable growth in all sections of the opportunity of considering the Bill in the State. Once again the State will be a more detail. tinder box from the River Murray to the sea. The communities and land holders that The Hon. D. R. White-We have met Mr I represent are concerned about this aspect. Barnard's point by removing the issue of In most cases individuals are fortunately liability from the Bill. taking severe steps to protect their proper­ ties. In urban areas the fire brigades and The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN-The responsible land holders are taking appro­ point I make is that three different legal priate steps to burn off their blocks and tidy opinions have been given, leading to differ­ up roadsides. Fires often break out on the ent courses in relation to liability. I under­ roadsides-which now carry an extreme stand it is proposed to remove one of those growth burden-through carelessness by car provisions. All I am saying is that the Min­ drivers. ister is not a Queen's Counsel and neither Honourable members have made the am I. There is a difference of opinion be­ point about the lack of registered electrical tween two eminent Queen's Counsel on the contractors. I receive many phone calls at whole thrust of the Bill, not just one provi­ all hours of the day and night from people sion. who are concerned about the Bill. When the Bill was being drafted there were comments The Hon. D. R. White-Not just liabil­ released in the press about the limited lia­ ity? bility of the State Electricity Commission for high voltage lines on commission ease­ The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN-It ments on private property and the possibil­ relates to liability flowing from proposed ity of that responsibility being transferred section 60, which will not be amended ex­ to the land holder whereas, previously, the cept for a few words. It is for that reason commission was responsible. that the implementation of the provision This possibility caused much consterna­ should be deferred for a period to enable tion amongst those who were aware of the legal experts to clarify exactly what are the problems that could arise as a result of that implications. I propose to make further transfer. They were also concerned in many comments in the Committee stage. cases that the easements did not even apply to lines that supplied power to their prop­ The Hon. J. W. S. RADFORD (Bendigo erties. Indeed, in my case and in many oth­ Province)-I welcome the Minister's fore­ ers, one found that commission easements shadowed amendments. I commend the were crossing properties from which there 1166 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill was no commission power derived for use considered by the Minister. I trust that the in dwellings on the properties. Minister finds shortcomings in the Bill that Concern was expressed about the sugges­ will adversely affect consumers who have tion that the land holder could have been met the requirements as well as they can, he responsible for the easements which caused will show common sense and sympathy to­ high voltage lines from neighbouring prop­ wards them and quickly introduce neces­ erty to the transformer. Those reports spread sary amending legislatIon to cover any around and caused concern to land holders. anomalies. These land holders rightfully and posi­ The Hon. K. I. M. WRIGHT (North tively responded by contacting their local Western Province)-The Bill results from members of Parliament. I support the com­ the disastrous Ash Wednesday bush fires in ments made about the problems that result which 46 lives were lost; there was an eco­ from a shortage of registered electrical con­ nomic loss of$200 million; 1719 homes; 82 tractors. Indeed, there is a limit of 28 days commercial properties were lost; and 1238 for work to be carried out, which is deemed farms were damaged. The National Party to be necessary by commission inspectors. joins other parties in extending sympathy and support to the victims. I commend the A distinct shortage of registered electrical public and both Governments which con­ contractors is being experienced in many tributed generously to the various appeals. areas for a variety of reasons. It is true that some people did not insure Some contractors left the rural areas dur­ their homes or, if they did, they were grossly ing the drought because there was no call under-insured. I wonder whether insurance for their services. Those who remained in premiums should remain constant when some of the rural areas suffered a lean time. there is a record showing some homes have There has been a build-up of private work been lost up to three times in the one place. in households which now has to be over­ For example, I refer honourable members come because people are spending again. to motor vehicle insurance where one has With the rich new growth this season there the benefit of the no-claim bonus. is now a need for upgrading private facili­ ties on rural properties. I ask the Minister Following the 1977 bush fires, an in-depth to indicate that those who have a genuine inquiry was conducted by Sir Esler Barber, case will be treated sympathetically because QC, who found: their work cannot be carried out within the Victoria is one of the worst areas for wild fire in the 28 day limit due to a shortage of registered world. electrical contractors. His two key conclusions were that the SEC The pamphlet published by the SEC en­ should matntain its assets to a high stand­ titled "Private Overhead Power Lines" has ard and that trees and power lines should already been mentioned and incorporated be completely separated. I do not think any­ in Hansard. The pamphlet refers to under­ one would argue with the second proposi­ ground power lines. That is a worth-while tion, which has much merit. suggestion for many timbered areas. Per­ haps consideration could be given to land­ Although one strikes opposition to that holders who want underground trenching proposition from municipalities, conserva­ carried out on their properties. Perhaps the tionists and the like, after that report was commission could assist the local registered made public much was done by the Gov­ electrical contractors in obtaining the nec­ ernment and others. Probably not enough essary machines for hire so that the work work has been carried out in this area but can be carried out before the peak fire dan­ there has been a massive tree treatment pro­ gerperiod. gramme which would have improved the I listened to the comments made by Mr safety of power lines. Chamberlain on legal matters. The Minister However, the programme has had a det­ may consider that perhaps Mr Chamberlain rimental effect on the landscape. is being difficult; but I have considerable I commend the proposal of the SEC and respect for Mr Chamberlain's legal training. the Government to take some power lines The legal opinion that has been supplied to underground, particularly in aesthetically him by Mr John Bamard, QC, should be important areas. In 1977 customers with State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1167

private electricity lines had been advised by mission and were involved in some of the the commission of their responsibilities on initial discussions. at least three occasions. I thank the Minister for his readiness to The State Electricity Commission has in­ discuss the Bill and make available his sen­ formed customers that lines are part of a ior officers, Mr Rowan Weatherhead and customer's installation just the same as the Mr Tony Wilson, who have been extremely internal wiring in his or her home is part of helpful and have returned on many occa­ his or her installation. On the question of sions to answer queries from the National legal liability, Sir Esler Barber, QC and in­ Party. I commend the Minister and his ad­ deed, Mr Ellis, SM, who is conducting the visers because they were prepared to con­ current coronial inquiry, commented on the sider a number of compromises and number of landowners with private electric proposals put forward by the National Party lines who contend that the final responsibil­ and the Opposition. ity for the condition of the lines rests with I shall just deal with the important, sali­ the State Electricity Commission. As I un­ ent points of the Bill. According to pro­ derstand it, the Bill seeks to make the re­ posed section 58 (1) of the principal Act, a sponsibility and the legal position much "point of supply", in relation to a private clearer than it was in the past. electric line above or below the surface of The general purpose of the Bill may be land means: summarized in a number of aspects. Firstly, to clarify the question of the ownership of (a) in the case of an underground line, the point at and responsibility for private electric lines which that line crosses the boundary of the land; and and secondly, to provide proper legislative (b) in the case of an overhead line, the first point of support to a code of practice concerning the connexion of that line on the land, being either- cutting of trees. The code of practice has (i) where the line is carried onto the land by one or been around for a long time. It was a vol­ more poles, the first pole on the land carrying that line; untary arrangement between the munici­ (ii) where the line is connected directly to premises palities and the commission. The Bill seeks on the land, that connexion to the premises; to provide more legislative backing for the code of practice. The definition of "private electric line" means any overhead or underground low Thirdly, the Bill requires private property voltage electric line used to take electric en­ owners to keep trees on their land clear of ergy from the point of supply, whether or certain power lines or, in certain circum­ not that line is vested in the commission. A stances, empower the commission to carry great deal of misunderstanding existed in out the work and recover the costs incurred. the rural community about that definition. Fourthly, the Bill provides for the making It was felt that it meant that farmers were of regulations with respect to specifications responsible for practically ~very line that for standards of construction and mainte­ came on to the property. However, the nance of private electric lines. words "low voltage electric line" are the key I do not think anybody would argue with words in the definition and, after discussion the general aims of the Bill because if we are with the Minister and his advisers, the mat­ to make power lines and properties more ter has been clarified. safe, there will be less loss of life and prop­ A further concern existed with proposed erty in future fires. Future fires are as cer­ section 58 (3) which states: tain as anything can be. The National Party would have liked far more time in which to Where a corporation is guilty of an offence against deal with the Bill. Regrettably, we were un­ this Part or the regulations made under this Part any able to consult individual municipalities. officer of the corporation who was knowingly a party However, it has had a number of discus­ to the commission of the offence is also guilty of that sions with the State Electricity Commis­ offence and liable to the penalty for that offence. sion, the Municipal Association of Victoria This measure caused consternation partic­ and Victorian Farmers and Graziers Asso­ ularly in municipalities. My understanding ciation. I understand those two bodies have is that the criticism of that proposed section had a reasonable amount of time to discuss has been overcome. Proposed section 61 (1) the matter with the State Electricity Com- states: 1168 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill

The Commission shall not be responsible for the mission power line on private property the maintenance of nor liable for any damage caused by a landowner would be responsible for any private electric line or electric line where another per­ damages. One could envisage that in a seri­ son is responsible for the maintenance ofthe line under ous case, a landowner could be sued for $1 section 60. million or more. If the court upheld the The proposed section has been discussed at case, naturally the landowner would lose length with the Minister and his advisers. I everything; he would lose his farm, all his am pleased to note that after the Minister possessions and would be made virtually amended the proposed section and the bankrupt. amendment was not satisfactory to those The Minister may care to comment on directly involved with the Bill, the Minister the matter during the Committee stage. . has seen fit to withdraw the proposed sec­ However, the problem has been obviated tion altogether. As the provision has been by the various amendments proposed. I withdrawn, the Minister has met the criti­ thank the Minister and his officers, the Mu­ cism of a large number of people. nicipal Association of Victoria and the Vic­ A further salient feature of the Bill con­ torian Farmers and Graziers Association for cerns the powers and responsibility of the the frank and constructive manner in which commission with respect to lines. Proposed discussions on the Bill have taken place. I section 61 (2) provides that the commission consider that after the Minister has moved may exercise the following powers in rela­ the proposed amendments, for which he has tion to private electric lines and electric given notice, it will be a much better Bill. lines: Victoria's power lines and State Electric­ (a) The power to enter onto land at any reasonable ity Commission facilities will be much safer time for the purposes of inspecting a private electric and the risk of fire will not be as great. line or electric line and to remain on the land for so long as is necessary to inspect the line; and The Hon. W. R. BAXTER (North East­ ern Province)-I want to intervene briefly That is an important power. The proposed in the debate and support the remarks that section further states: have been made by preceding speakers. I am particularly gratified that the Minister (b) The power to order that any private electric line or electric line proposed to be constructed or to be has seen fit to foreshadow some amend­ substantially reconstructed after the coming into oper­ ments to the Bill because, as originally pre­ ation of the State Electricity Commission (Qearance sented, the measure presented some horrific of Lines) Act 1983 be placed underground. implications for people throughout the State. Although the clauses dealing with the This seems to be the main cause of conten­ responsibility for maintenance of lines are tion at present. The farming community rather difficult to comprehend, I am reason­ considers that a decision whether a power ably satisfied that a situation is being line is placed underground should rest with reached which is acceptable to the people of the landowner. I am assured by the State this State. Electricity Commission that 65 per cent or more of landowners have been voluntarily However, I wish to sound the warning placing power lines underground. Iffarmers that, in the light of the bush fires that oc­ carry out the earth works themselves and, if curred earlier this year, tragic as they were, they have the equipment and dig the there should not be an overreaction within trenches, the costs are almost comparable the State Electricity Commission about cut­ to those associated with overhead power ting down trees wholesale. The State is ex­ lines. tremely short of trees and evidence that has been produced in the past few days in a I commend the placing of power lines un­ document known as "The State of the Riv­ derground because if that is done and the ers" clearly demonstrates the decline in the cost is comparable with the cost of over­ number of trees since the coming of white head power lines, maintenance costs, fire settlement. Organizations such as the Nat­ risks and risks of liability are reduced. ural Resources Conservation League are The way the Bill was originally drafted constantly drawing attention to the decline made it appear that if a member of the pub­ in the tree population in this State. There lic was injured by a State Electricity Com- could be an overreaction in the future and State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1169

people would cut down trees that are of no might take less care in preserving trees than danger in the bush-fire season. I have seen they might otherwise take. evidence of that since the Ash Wednesday bush fires and even prior to that. I do not It is all very well for honourable members to smile and say it is the loss of only one want it to be construed for one moment that tree. However, if one is a farmer and lives I am in favour ofleaving in place a tree that in northern Victoria, which experiences could have the vague possibility of being harsh summer conditions, the loss of a ma­ responsible for bush-fire disasters such as jor tree or the only tree in one's paddock is those that occurred in February. a loss of some significance. The farmer to However, I should like to give two ex­ whom I refer accepted the situation without amples of what occurred some time ago, complaining too much, but he has not for­ well before the Ash Wednesday bush fires, gotten it-he raises it with me every time I to demonstrate the insensitivity of the com­ see him. mission about the preservation of trees. Another example of this sort of situation I refer to a problem that was experienced occurred in Eskdale. In that case, apin in­ by one of my constituents some time ago stalling an extension to the reticulatIon sys­ when the commission was extending its re­ tem, the commission cut down a 60-year­ ticulation system in northern Victoria. As old poplar tree on the property of Mr and honourable members would be aware, it is Mrs Verdun Turner. With a little bit of customary for power lines to be constructed readjustment, that tree could easily have along road reserves. There were a number been saved. of attractive box trees on the road adjacent Poplar trees are not native to the Mitta to this person's property and the commis­ Mitta Valley. The tree was one of an avenue sion decided it would be too expensive to of trees that were planted by the owner in remove them to construct the power lines question many years ago when he first on the roadway. Of course, as well as being moved to that property, and was regarded expensive, the cutting down of the trees with veat pride by his wife, in particular. would have meant the degradation of the To thInk that a tree of that significance and landscape. The commission approached the beauty could be destroyed overnight when owner of the adjoining land, the constituent a little more care and relocation of the line, to whom I refer, to see whether he would probably without any additional cost, would agree to have the power line on his prop­ have saved it, is regrettable. erty. He readily aveed to that proposition, I am putting these matters on record, even though the hne was not to service his simply to sound a warning that I am afraid property in any way. of an overreaction occurring in the future However, he did not negotiate with the about trees being cut down to make way for commission to determine the precise route power lines. Although I want every care to the line would follow in his paddock. He be taken to prevent the outbreak of fires, I assumed the commission would use some want it to be done with some consideration common sense. However, when the com­ towards the preservation of the landscape mission officers came to install the line, they in Victoria. located it approximately 1 chain inside his I wanted to canvass a number of other fence line, which involved cutting down the issues in this debate, but my remarks may only shady tree he had in his paddock for well be qualified by the amendments the his stock. The commission, having made Minister proposes to move, and I shall re­ the decision to go inside the property, could serve further remarks until the Committee easily have gone 3 chains inside the fence stage. line, which would not have necessitated cutting down the tree. The motion was agreed to. That demonstrates the sort of insensitiv­ The Bill was read a second time and com­ ity and lack of common sense on the part of mitted. the commission. I hope that does not occur Clause 1 was agreed to. in the future. As a result of the experience of the Ash Wednesday bush fires, people Clause 2 1170 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill

The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for It is the responsibility of all, and is for the benefit of Minerals and Energy)-I thank honourable all, and can only be achieved by every agency and members for their contributions to the sec­ individual member of the rural community making a contribution to the total effort. This will involve some ond-reading debate on the Bill and their sacrifice of time, energy and money, but it is the only support for the measure. I thank the Na­ way to avoid a future repetition of the tragic losses tional Party and the Opposition for their co­ from wild fire that have occurred so often in the past. operation and also indicate that the Gov­ ernment is grateful for the work of the offi­ The Bill, as proposed to be amended, sets cers of the State Electricity Commission, out to clearly define the responsibilities and Mr Rowan Weatherhead and Mr Tony Wil­ contributions which must be made by indi­ son, for the extent to which they have as­ viduals and organizations if fire prevention sisted in consulting with the Municipal in respect of electric power lines is to be Association of Victoria, the Opposition, the effective. National Party, the Insurance Council of Australia Ltd and other bodies that have The Bill clarifies, but does not change, the expressed an interest in helping to resolve responsibility of private citizens for the policy questions which arose following the maintenance of their private electric lines introduction of the Bill. I should also like to and the point of supply from which such thank Mr Benson from the Department of responsibilities derive. It is specifically not Minerals and Energy for the work he has intended that private citizens accept any done in preparing the Bill and the subse­ additional responsibility for maintenance quent amendments that resulted from the associated with commission lines. discussions that took place. Sir Esler Barber, QC, also indicated in his report that: The Government is of the view, which is reinforced by the commission, that there is The rural citizens must realize that it is their respon­ sibility to inspect the private service lines on their every reason for the Bill to proceed now. properties and to observe contact between such lines There has been a continuing problem over and trees or any other faults and to arrange with a many years with individuals and organiza­ private contractor for the proper maintenance of such tions in rural areas understanding or ac­ lines. cepting their responsibilities for bush-fire prevention. This is particularly so with re­ With community understanding height­ gard to private service lines. Apathy grows ened by the memory of the tragedy of Ash at the end of each fire season to the extent Wednesday, with the onset of a potentially that people believe that, "It cannot happen dangerous fire season and in the knowledge to me" or even, "It cannot happen to me of the apathy which tends to occur with the again". passage of time, it is necessary to ensure that the Bill, with the amendments, gains Therefore it is necessary that, prior to the acceptance so that community obligations onset ofthe coming fire season, the Govern­ are highlighted and can be clearly under­ ment is able to convey to the whole com­ stood prior to the approaching fire danger munity its responsibility to endeavour to period. ensure that it does not happen again. The purpose of the associated regulations It is essential that the necessary message on private service lines will provide people is conveyed to the community at a time with an understanding of how they are to when its understanding is heightened by the meet their obligations for maintenance, in­ remembrance of the tragedy of Ash cluding tree clearing. Wednesday. That message needs the legis­ With regard to other authorities, the Bill, lative backing proposed in the amended Bill as amended, identifies areas in which their and should not be delayed beyond this fire community responsibility is to be exer­ season. cised. With regard to municipal councils, In the conclusion to his report on the In­ this responsibility is limited to keeping ur­ quiry into the Occurrence of Bush and Grass ban street trees clear of power lines which Fires in Victoria in 1977, Sir Esler Barber, already come within the ambit of responsi­ pointed up the total community responsi­ bility defined in the voluntary code of prac­ bility for bush-fire prevention. He said, and tice established between the SEC and the I quote: Municipal Association of Victoria. The State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1171

commission has retained the massive task thank honourable members for their sup­ of keeping trees clear of lines on rural roads port of the Bill. throughout the State and the Road Con­ The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN struction Authority has responsibility for (Western Province )-1 urge the Minister to plantations on roads under their control. consider again the operative date of this leg­ The Bill does not in any way reduce the islation. It is clear that the Bill, even with standards of duty and care of the commis­ the foreshadowed amendments, makes dra­ sion in the supply of electricity to Victori­ matic changes in the law affecting occupiers ans in urban or rural areas. of property throughout the State. If that were not the case, there would be no need for the The further purpose of the Bill is to clar­ Bill, and the Government would rely on the ify the position with regard to planning con­ agreements that have been signed and the trols and their interaction with tree clearing notifications that have been given by adver­ requirements and to ensure that there is leg­ tisements and various pamphlets. The Bill islative backing for codes of practice. reinforces and changes the reliability of re­ During the second-reading debate, Mr sponsible persons as defined in this pro­ Crozier directed attention to regulatory posal. powers and, in response to his comments, I We are in the last days of November, and wish to say that the Government will give the proposal is for the Bill to come into an assurance that regulatory powers will not operation in late December or some time in modify the delineation of responsibility with December. I suggest that is not fair, and it regard to private electric lines. The purpose is completely undesirable for a number of of the proposed regulation in relation to pri­ reasons. It is undesirable because citizens of vate electric lines will provide people with this State are entitled to be put on notice if a clear understanding of how they are to there are to be substantive changes of the meet their obligation for maintenance, in­ law. cluding tree clearing. I remind the Minister that just three weeks Mr Chamberlain also pursued the ques­ a$.o the House debated the Occupiers' .Lia­ tion of regulation. It is clear as a general bility Bill, which had the effect of consIder­ observation, of which he is no doubt aware, ably changing the nature of the liability of that regulations cannot modify or redefine occupiers for people coming into their the responsibility set out in the Bill. The premises. Mr Storey proposed to the Attor­ Parliamentary committee, particularly the ney-General that clause 2 of that Bill should Subordinate Legislation Committee-- be amended to provide that it would not The Hon. B. A. Chamberlain-We do not operate prior to 1 July 1984, and the Attor­ have that committee any more. ney-General prudently accepted that The Hon. D. R. WHITE-The Legal and amendment. Constitutional Committee will ensure that I suggest to the Minister that he should matters which will affect the basic rights of propose an amendment to add the words to citizens are not dealt with by regulation. clause 2, "but not before 1 July 1984". Con­ In response to the matters that Mr Wright siderable hardship will be imposed if that raised about private service lines, I assure does not happen. The community is enti­ Mr Wright and other honourable members, tled to be put on notice about these provi­ on behalf of the Government and the SEC, sions and, where appropriate, to take that sympathetic consideration will be given insurance cover where they do not have it at present. It is completely unfair and un­ to the time that people with private lines wise for the Government to have proposed will be given to carry out maintenance, but legislation such as this in operation before this must also take into account the fire haz­ the community knows what it is all about, ard conditions of the area concerned at the bearing in mind that there is also the ability time that those requests are made. of the Government to formulate and pro­ In addition, in respect of any obligations mulgate regulations that would have wide that are provided or made about under­ operation. I ask the Minister to seriously grounding, the commissionis has similarly consider giving an undertaking to the effect indicated that it will deal with that matter that this measure will not operate before 1 in a sympathetic and considered fashion. I July 1984. 1172 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill

The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for present. In an aside to me, the Minister also Minerals and Energy)-The Government asserted that there was insurance cover at has given consideration to the matter that present. the honourable member has raised. If the Bill had been introduced in the autumn ses­ The Hon. D. R. White-No. sional period of Parliament, consideration The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN-The could have been given to proclaiming it State Electricity Commission is actively during the spring sessional period or at some negotiating for insurance cover for this year. date prior to the onset of summer. The State Electricity Commission knows its Given the experience that Victoria suf­ obligations; it can approach an insurer and fered last summer, and the clear expecta­ it can make those arrangements. tion and obligation placed on the Government and the SEC to clarify the The individual does not yet know about position of private service lines and obliga­ the Bill and he will not know about it for tions relating to that, and in view of the fact quite some time. The opportunity of the that the Bill does not change or significantly individual to make arrangements will be nil increase the liability of people who have because the Bill will drop on his doorstep private service lines, but clarifies those re­ on Christmas Eve. sponsibilities, the Government is not pre­ The Minister claims that it would not be pared to take on itself, or expect the SEC to reasonable or responsible for the Govern­ take on itself, a further postponement of ment not to take this action to protect the this measure which is urgently needed for State Electricity Commission. It would not the forthcoming fire season. be reasonable or responsible for the Oppo­ The reason why the proposed legislation sition not to protect the community be­ needs to be in place for the forthcoming cause it will not only be the owners of summer season is that it has been the sub­ property but also potential victims who will ject of extensive consultation in recent be affected. weeks to provide an opportunity for it to be If Victoria suffers another holocaust, passed during the current sessional period. which starts from a private line, which is then a liability imputed to the owner of the Although I have noted the remarks of Mr property, there is a fair chance that the vic­ Chamberlain, the Government is not of the tims will not be recompensed. That is view that the Bill will significantly alter the neither responsible nor reasonable. liability of individuals but rather to clarify it. It would not be constructive to place on I suggest that the proposal I put to the the Government and the State Electricity Minister, which would give the community Commission an obligation to forgo the need the opportunity to gear up for these changes, for these changes during the forthcoming is the sort of action the Government should summer season, given the experience many take. Victorians suffered in February this year. The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN Minerals and Energy)-The State Electric­ (Western Province)-The Minister for ity Commission is negotiating on insurance Minerals and Energy has put one side of the cover. In response to a comment Mr Cham­ argument and I shall put the other side. The berlain made this morning, I indicated that Minister said that the Bill will not change negotiations were proceeding. They have not the liability of individuals but rather, will been concluded at the moment, as I under­ clarify it. If that is so, why the rush for the stand it, but potential insurers are available; Bill to be passed? Why does the Govern­ whereas Mr Chamberlain indicated that that ment need a Bill that will come into effect may not be the case. The facts are that on the eve of a fire season? potential insurers are available and that ne­ gotiations are occurring. Earlier today, Mr Crozier asked the Min­ ister whether the State Electricity Commis­ In respect of the spirit of the proposed sion had insurance cover for the legislation, it is not designed simply to pro­ forthcoming fire season. The Minister indi­ tect the interests of the State Electricity cated that negotiations were occurring at Commission. It is not designed to increase State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1173

the liability of the private service line prop­ relating to declared areas. I will speak to ertyowner. amendment No. 10 so that honourable members understand to which amendment The Bill seeks to clarify responsibility in No. 1 relates. respect of various policy statements that have existed in the past. The Bill will make Amendment No. 10 introduces the con­ the responsibilities clear and unambiguous. cept of declared areas into the way in which The Bill will clarify where the responsibili­ municipalities will be allocated responsibil­ ties commence for the private service line ities under the Bill. holder and where they finish in respect of There are a number of municipalities the activities of the State Electricity Com­ which currently cannot have organized tree­ mission. trimming programmes. The measure is de­ The Bill will do no more than clarify signed to provide for the progressive and where the responsibilities lie in respect of negotiated adoption of responsibilities un­ the private service line holder, the State der the Bill. Amendment No. 1 is a conse­ Electricity Commission and other parties. quential amendment. Therefore, I move: That is the purpose of the Bill. 1. Clause 4, page 2, after line 11 insert the following: In view of the ambiguity and uncertainty • "Declared area" means an area declared under sec­ on where responsibility rested during the tion 65 (3) and (4) by the Governor in Council by last summer season, and arising from the Order in Council published in the Victoria Govern­ fact that it was not clear who was responsi­ ment Gazette.'. ble for each private service line, the Gov­ The amendment was agreed ,to. ernment and the State Electricity Commission believe it is necessary to take The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for this step. Minerals and Energy)-I move: Having taken the step and introduced the 2. Clause 4, page 2, line 13, after "line" insert "and Bill, the Government is now in a position includes a low voltage electric line". to indicate that, with its implementation, It is a machinery amendment designed to the rights and responsibilities of people will clarify the situation. Wherever the Bill uses become much clearer, identifiable and sim­ the term "electric line", it includes low volt­ pler and that ambiguity will be removed age electric lines. from the issue. That will assist in ensuring that the necessary work is carried out in The amendment was agreed to. respect of tree clearance. That, in turn, will The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for have the effect of reducing the fire risk for Minerals and Energy)-I move: the forthcoming summer season and, be­ cause of the obligations the State Electricity 3. Oause 4, page 2, after line 29 insert the following: Commission and the Government have to • "Plantation" means an area which is a plantation Victorians, the Government believes it is within the meaning of the Code.'. both necessary and desirable that the pro­ This is a consequential amendment to that posed legislation be in place for the forth­ proposed in amendment No. 11 relating to coming summer season. the responsibilities of the Road Construc­ It is for those reasons that the Govern­ tion Authority. ment cannot accede to the postponement of The amendment was agreed to. the proclamation being sought by Mr Chamberlain. The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for Minerals and Energy)-I move: The clause was agreed to, as was clause 3. 4. Oause 4, page 3, line 30, omit "Where" and in­ Clause 4 sert "Subject to sub-section (4), where". The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for 5. Oause 4, page 3, after line 33 insert the following: Minerals and Energy)-There are a number "(4) It is a defence to a charge brought pursuant to of proposed amendments to clause 4. I will sub-section (3) against an officer of a corporation to commence with amendment No. 1, which prove that he acted reasonably in the course of his is consequential upon amendment No. 10 employment as an officer of the corporation.". 1174 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill

6. Clause 4, page 3, line 34, omit "(4)" and insert 15. Clause 4, page 5, lines 11 to 14, omit sub-section "(5)". (1). 7. Clause 4, page 4, line 1, omit "(5)" and insert The amenament removes sub-section (1) of "(6)". new section 61. The effect of this amend­ The proposed amendments seek to intro­ ment will be that the commission's present duce protection for employees of the cor­ situation in relation to liability at common poration, where the corporation may direct law will remain unchanged. Amendment an employee to act in contravention of the No. 16 is consequential. Act. In those circumstances an employee The amendment was agreed to. will not be guilty of an offence. The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for The amendments were agreed to. Minerals and Energy)-I move: The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for 18. Clause 4, page 5, line 25, omit "underground." Minerals and Energy)-I move: and insert "underground; and (c) The power, upon production of a certificate un­ 8. Clause 4, page 4, line 36, omit "an" and insert "a der the hand of the secretary to the Commission and low voltage". at any reasonable time, to enter onto and remain on It is a significant amendment which, if any land, for as long as is necessary for the carrying out of any work which is required to be carried out by the agreed to, will remove the responsibility of Commissi.on to fulfil its responsibilities pursuant to an occupier to clear a tree on his land from section 60 (5) .... any high voltage line which is taken onto his land solely to service the land. These The amendment inserts the power of entry lines will now become the responsibility of by commission officers to land in order to the State Electricity Commission. carry out work to fulfil the commission's responsibility under the legislation. This is The amendment was agreed to. a machinery amendment. Amendment No. The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for 17 is consequential. Minerals and Energy)-I move: The amendment was agreed to. 9. Oause 4, page 4, line 38, omit "or electric line The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for which solely services" and insert "which is on". Minerals and Energy)-I move: The amendment was agreed to. 19. Clause 4, page 6, line 29, after "to" insert "a The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for private electric line or". Minerals and Energy)-I move: The amendment was agreed to. 10. Oause 4, page 5, line 1, after "land" insert "in The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for a declared area which is". Minerals and Energy)-I move: The amendment was agreed to. 21. Oause 4, page 6, line 35, omit "-" and insert "; The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for or Minerals and Energy)-I move: (d) refuses- (i) to comply with a notice under this section; or 11. Oause 4, page 5, line 5, after "tree" insert "which is situated on a plantation on a road other than a main (ii) to perform his duties under the Code-". road declared to be a road by the Minister administer­ 22. Oause 4, page 6, line 38, omit "that person" and ing the Transport Act 1983 under Schedule 5 to the insert "the responsible person referred to in paragraph Transport Act 1983". (a), (b) or (c) (as the case may be)". 12. Oause 4, page 5, lines 5 and 6, omit "which is". The amendments were agreed to. 13. Oause 4, page 5, line 6, omit "where the land The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for is". Minerals and Energy)-I move: 14. Oause 4, page 5, line 7, omit "under the control of that Authority". 23. Oause 4, page 7, after line 9 insert the following: The amendments were agreed to. "(10) Notwithstanding the provisions of- (a) section 77 of the Forests Act 1958; The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for (b) section 56 (2) (1) of the Transport Act 1983; Minerals and Energy)-I move: or State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1175

(c) regulations made under or having effect as if ment will provide for the first code to expire made under either of those sections- on the coming into operation of the new it shall not be necessary for a responsible person under code rather than at the expiration of one section 60 (3) or (5) to obtain the authority or permis­ year. The Government looks forward to the sion of the Forests Commission or the Road Contruc­ new code being in place before the next tion Authority in respect of any action necessary to summer period. keep the whole or any part of a tree clear of an electric line where such action is required pursuant to section The amendment was agreed to. 60 (3) or (5) or to a notice under section 62.". The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for The amendment was agreed to. Minerals and Energy)-I move: The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for 35. Oause 4, page 9, after line 28 insert the follow­ Minerals and Energy)-I move. ing: "(3) The Governor in Council may by Order in 24. Clause 4, page 7, after line 13 insert: Council declare an area for the purposes of section 60 "(3) From among the members of the Committee a (3). Chairman shall be appointed jointly by the Minister (4) An Order in Council made under sub-section and the Minister administering the Town and Country (3)- Planning Act 1961.". (a) shall be published in the Government 27. Clause 4, page 7, line 23, omit "Department of' Gazette; and insert "Ministry for". (b) may by like Order be amended, varied or The principal effect of this and consequen­ revoked; and tial amendments is to make two changes to (c) shall come into operation upon publication the provisions relating to the Tree Clear­ in the Government Gazette.". ance Consultative Committee; firstly, an Amendments Nos. 35 to 40 are conse­ additional sub-section is inserted to pro­ quential upon amendment No. 10 which vide for the appointment of the chairman relates to the introduction of the concept of of the committee and, secondly, a reference a declared area. Amendment No. 35 inserts to the Ministry for Employment and Train­ the necessary provision for making an Or­ ing is included. Amendments Nos. 25, 26, der in Council. 28,29, 30 and 31 are consequential. The amendment was agreed to, as were The amendments were agreed to. consequential amendments. The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for The Hon. D. G. CROZIER (Western Minerals and Energy)-I move: Province)-In relation to the removal from 32. Clause 4, page 8, line 21, after "Assets" insert proposed new section 61 of sub-clause (2) "as existing immediately before the commencement of as provided in amendment No. 16, I agree the State Electricity Commission (Oearance of Lines) with the Minister that it would appear that Act 1983". the status quo in terms of common law This is a machinery amendment which rights is preserved and that is welcome to will facilitate the fine tuning of the Act in those on the Opposition side of the House. new section 64 before it is brought into force. I refer the Minister to maintenance in the proposed new section 60 (1) which reads: The amendment was agreed to. Except as provided in sub-section (2), an occupier of The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for land above or below the surface of which there is a Minerals and Energy)-I move: private electric line shall be responsible for mainten­ 33. Clause 4, page 8, lines 23 and 24, omit "one year ance of the line. after the coming into operation of that Act" and insert I referred in my second-reading speech re­ '6the coming into operation of regulations prescribing marks to the definition of maintenance the Code made pursuant to sub-section (1)". which includes the keeping of the whole or The purpose of this amendment is to pro­ any part of a tree clear of the line. Qearly, vide more flexible machinery in regard to maintenance has a wider connotation than the implementation of a new revised code just the keeping of the whole or any part of of practice. It is important that a new and a tree clear of the line. I ask the Minister adequate code should not be inhibited by whether that section should be considered inflexible time constraints. The amend- in conjunction with proposed new section 1176 COUNCIL 23 November 1983 State Electricity Commission Bill 65, specifically proposed new section 65 (1) formity with common law as has been (d) (iii) and (iv), which reads in part- pointed out by Mr Barnard in his letter. The Governor in Council on the recommendation The method to be applied to the mainten­ of the Commission may make regulations for or with ance is a regulatory power which the com­ respect to any matter or thing that is required or per- , mission is seeking to impose on itself. That mitted to be prescribed for the purposes of this Part or might seem to be a semantic argument. I is necessary to be prescribed for carrying this Part into effect and, without limiting the generality of the fore­ am concerned that the responsibility of the going, for or with respect to prescribing- occupiers will be increased and thereby in­ advertently at law their potential liability will also be increased. (d) the Code of Practice for the maintenance ofpri­ Mr Chamberlain and all speakers have vate electric lines and the keeping of the whole or alluded to this possibility and I indicate that any part of a tree clear of electric lines setting out- the Opposition is concerned that this should not be the case. My concern would be dis­ pelled if the Minister would indicate that (Hi) the methods to be applied in the maintenance of private electric lines and the keeping of the the policy of the Government is that the whole or any part of a tree clear of electric lines; commissIon will have full responsibility for and the design, construction and description of the material to be used and, further, that it (iv) any other matters for or with respect to the maintenance of private electric lines and the keep­ will continue to be the commission's obli­ ing of the whole or any part of a tree clear of ption periodically to inspect all private lines electric lines. In Victoria. The Minister pointed out in his second-reading speech that there are some I mention this to the Minister in the context 7000 kilometres of such lines in rural Vic­ of the letter that my colleague, Mr Cham­ toria. berlain, received from Mr Barnard, QC. I quote one sentence only from that letter: It is a considerable length of line. These sections of the Bill relate to that interface At common law an electrical authority owes a duty between the commission and the consumer, at least to abstain from supplying electrical current to and I welcome a comment from the Minis­ consumer installations which it knows or, exercising ter. reasonable care and skill oUght to know, are defective and likely to allow the escape of electricity thereby The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for endangering the safety of other persons or their prop­ Minerals and Energy)-The State Electric­ erty. ity Commission has advised-and the Government accepts the advice-that the I seek an assurance from the Minister that purpose is to set standards with respect to the obligations of the occupiers of land the maintenance and condition of private which are serviced by private electric lines service lines, 'and the purpose of the power are not to be increased by any regulation to regulate is to assist in making clear how which flows as a consequence of the obliga­ private service lines can best be cleared of tion as defined by proposed new section 61, interference from trees. the interpretation of maintenance under proposed new section 58, and the regulatory The power to make regulations is not de­ power that is referred to under proposed signed, nor does the Government or the new section 65. Considering the opinion of State Electricity Commission, during the life Mr Barnard, QC it seems a little incon­ of this Parliament at least, seek to use that gruous that the methods to be applied to the regulatory power to increase the responsi­ maintenance of private lines are deemed to bility or onus of private service line holders. be needed in this section of the Bill. I cer­ One would expect that, as a result of this tainly hope it will continue to happen; that power there would be, consistent with exist­ the responsibility for prescribing the mate­ ing practice, inspections and checks about rials to be used in the construction of pri­ every three years and this is basically the vate lines will remain with the commission. period-in broad terms-of inspection. Let Any other matters which relate to the con­ it suffice to say that the purpose of the reg­ struction of lines will also remain with the ulatory power is to assist in making it clear commission in conformity with its over-all to private service line holders how they responsibility and with its Act, and in con- might best assist in ensuring that their pri- State Electricity Commission Bill 23 November 1983 COUNCIL 1177

vate service line is clear from interference That is clearly intended to advert to a Com­ from trees. monwealth authority such as the Army, The Hon. B. A. CHAMBERLAIN Telecom or Australia Post. What steps are (Western Province)-The issue raised by Mr being taken to ensure that those bodies will Crozier is important and gets to the heart of observe the same rules that are being im­ the matter I raised earlier about the need to parted to or foisted upon other people in hold over the proposed legislation. How­ this State? ever, I have lost that argument. I have a Proposed new section 59 (1) states: couple of questions for the Minister arising out of some of the definitions in the Bill. Where in relation to a private electric line the Com­ Proposed new section 58 (1) gives a defini­ mission is of the opinion that the point of supply as determined in accordance with the interpretation of tion of "point of supply" in relation to two that term in section 58 (1) is not appropriate, the Com­ situations. It is clear that a suburban dweller mission shall determine the point of supply. in the normal suburban street will not have to worry about the terms of the proposed Proposed new section 59 (6) states: legislation. However, sub-paragraph (iii) A determination made under sub-section (1) shall states: take effect from the date of the determination by the where it is not possible to determine a point of sup­ Commission and any variation or revocation of the ply in accordance with sub-paragraph (i) or (ii), the determination under sub-section (4) or (5) shall take point at which the line crosses the boundary of the effect from the date of the variation or revocation. land- I suggest to the Minister that that could unless the line is connected to Commission assets cause an injustice to occur. Let honourable which are situated on an easement vested in the Com­ members assume the following situation. A mission which is on the land in which case the point of requirement is put on a landowner by the supply shall be the point at which the line is. connected commission that he is to be responsible for to Commission assets. the maintenance of a certain area of wire I make two suggestions. Firstly, could the from the suggested point of supply. The Minister give examples, of where it might landowner then appeals to the commission not be possible to determine a point of sup­ on the basis that the deemed point of supply ply. The concept ofa point of supply is vital is unreasonable and the commission then to the question of the liability of the occu­ changes its mind and brings the point of pier of the property. supply closer to the premises ofthe individ­ ual. Under sub-section (6), it appears that Under the definition of "private electric the landowner will still be required to com­ line", it all refers back to the point of sup­ ply with the requirement that was put on ply. It is important from that point. Why is him when the different point of supply was there a differential criteria when the power allocated. is being taken, say, from a line in a roadway and when it is taken from an easement? In I suggest that, if a variation is made be­ the case of a line taken from an easement, fore the work was carried out, the land­ which passes through the property, the lia­ owner should be relieved of the bility will go right back to the point of sup­ responsibility to do the work that was re­ ply, that is on the commission assets, quired under the prior definition or point of whereas in a normal case, where a farmer supply. Proposed new section 59 (6) could takes the power line from the highway, it create injustices in that the determination comes from the first power line on the prop­ which applies to that sub-section should ap­ erty or where it directly connects to his ply retrospectively to the date that the re­ premises, the connection on the premises. quirement was issued. Why is there a difference? The Hon. D. R. WHITE (Minister for The second question refers to proposed Minerals and Energy)-I refer to the com­ new section 58 (2), which states: ments made by Mr Chamberlain about pro­ posed sub-paragraph (iii) concerning a This Part binds the Crown, not only in right of the situation where it is not possible to deter­ State of Victoria but also, so far as the legislative power mine a point of supply. The reason for the of Parliament permits, the Crown in all its other capac­ provision is that, although there exists-as ities. Mr Crozier made it clear by the insertion of