Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 7 DECEMBER 1976

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2112 Nursing Studies Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Ministerial Statements

TUESDAY, 7 DECEMBER 1976

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. J. E. H. Houghton, Redcliffe) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m.

AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORT

BRISBANE CITY COUNCIL ACCOUNTS Mr. SPEAKER announced the receipt from the Auditor-General of his report on the books and accounts of the Brisbane City Council for the year 1975-76. Ordered to be printed.

PAPERS The following paper was laid on the table, and ordered to be printed:- Report of the University of Queensland for the year 1975. The following papers were laid on the table:- Proclamation under the Queensland Marine Act 1958-1975. Orders in Council under- Industrial Development Act 1963-1975. Collections Act 1966-1975. Regulations under- Queensland Marine Act 1958-1975. Elections Act 1915-1976. Liquor Act 1912-1975.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

ATTACK BY 'MEMBER FOR ARCHERFIELD ON Co-oRDINATOR-GENERAL Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (11.6 a.m.): Last Wednesday, during the Matters of Public Interest debate, the member for Archerfield (Mr. Kevin Hooper) made a personal attack on the new State Co-ordinator-General, Mr. S. Schubert. Mr. Hooper claimed that Mr. Schubert had obtained appointment to this important office in the Public Service because-and I quote-"he had joined the National Party three months ago". The member for Archer­ field-! won't call him honourable-alleged that this represented political inte~;ference in the Public Service. He claimed that it was now apparent that the only way to obtain preference in promotion was to be a member of the party which I lead in this House. Mr. Speaker, such an attack under the privilege of this House against a man of unblemished character cannot be allowed. The member for Archerfield has misled this House and the people of Queensland deliber­ ately. The new Co-ordinator-General, Mr. Schubert, is not and has never been a member of the National Party. Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice 2113

Mr. Hinze: You scurrilous type, Hooper, Answer:- you crook. You'd say anything! Representations have been made on this Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Of course he matter by me to the Prime Minister, and would. by my colleague the Minister for Primary Industries to the Deputy Prime Minister To make such a claim without evidence and to the Minister for Primary Industry. is bad enough, but to use such a baseless smear on a man of fine record is beneath Mr. Sinclair has brought the industry's contempt. concern to the attention of the Common­ wealth Minister for Transport, who is I therefore demand that the member for responsible for the operation of the Archerfield withdraw his allegation and Tasmanian Freight Equalization Scheme. apologise to Mr. Schubert. In addition, Mr. Sinclair has stressed the need to closely monitor the operation of the scheme to ensure that the stability of domestic markets is not jeopardised. COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH-CARE PROGRAMME Investigations conducted after the Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minis­ announcement of the scheme have demon­ ter for Health) (11.7 a.m.): During this year strated that the rate of subsidy for apples the Government has tabled in this Parlia­ required adjustment. Consequently, the ment a number of Health Papers on matters subsidy level set for the movement of vital to the people of Queensland. One of fresh fruit in dry containers is now the new initiatives which is being developed approximately 20c per box lower than in the 1970s is a new care programme for rates for shipment in refrigerated con­ people, essentially based within the com­ tainers. munity. Through the community health programme, the Government is seeking to Mr. Sinclair has also advised that the provide a total health-care programme for effect of the scheme on mainland vegetable all people who need it. In the fifth Health growers has been referred to the recently Paper to be released this year the aims and formed National Vegetable Panel for policy considerations of this comprehensive discussion. programme are outlined. Already many of these aims have been achieved. Essentially, for the Community Health Service to succeed, there is a vital need for the com­ munity to actively support these initiatives. 2. EFFECT OF CURRENCY DEVALUATION In the Health Paper the role of the com­ ON PRICES OF IMPORTS munity and community groups is discussed, and we hope that, with the wide circulation Mr. McKechnie, pursuant to notice, asked of this new Paper, the community will the Minister for Industrial Development, further respond to make the Community Labour Relations and Consumer Affairs- Health Service a truly community-based and As many importers did not pass on the serving programme. full benefits of revaluation to the con­ suming public when the former Whit!am Tn no other area of health has there been Government revalued upwards, will he take such a rapid expansion of activities and action against any of these importers that services, and this is the most dramatic new do not accept part of the disadvantages health policy initiated for many years by of the Fraser Government's devaluation the Government and I commend the new and therefore pass on the full cost of Health Paper to all. the increases to the Queensland public? I table the paper. Answer:- Whereupon the honourable gentleman It would not be practicable for my laid the paper on the table. department to determine what proportion of the cost/price structure on the wide range o:f imported items sold in Queens­ QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE land was attributable to increased costs consequent upon devaluation. However, 1. TASMANIAN FREIGHT EQUALIZATION for the information of the honourable SCHEME member, I shall read from a telex received by me from the managing director of Mr. McKechnie, pursuant to notice, asked Farmers Centre (CQ) Pty. Ltd., Rock­ the Premier- hampton, regarding the gituation in which What steps has his Government taken his company finds itself- to help leaders of the fruit and vegetable "Most concerned your statement on industry convince the Commonwealth Gov­ the effect of devaluation on prices of ernment that the Tasmanian Freight current stock. My company has signifi­ Equalization Scheme will cause great cant stocks of tractors which are covered problems in Queensland and the rest of by unpaid Bills of Exchange in US Australia? dollars. These tractors will have to rise 2114 Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice

immediately to offset the movement in 5. BACK PAY FOR RETIRED CROWN exchange rate otherwise we would suffer EMPLOYEES significant losses." Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked As the honourable member will no the Deputy Premier and Treasurer- doubt appreciate, there are many importers who have in hand stocks on consignment When a Crown employee retires, and obtained on 90-day or 120-day accounts, the court later grants a salary rise retro­ which stocks will not be paid for for spective to a date when the employee was some time, and payment will be at the new employed by the Crown, is he entitled exchange rate of the Australian dollar. It to be paid the increase from the effective will obviously be necessary for these date of the salary rise to the actual date of importers to increase their prices forthwith his retirement and, if not, what is the if they are to a void significant losses position? through devaluation. Answer:- Yes, the employee is entitled to the 3. REPORT ON WATER RESOURCES OF increase under such circumstances. BURDEKIN RIVER Mr. l\1. D. Hooper, pursuant to notice, asked the Premier- 6. WOMEN'S RADIO 4BW LIMITED (1) Has the joint Commonwealth and Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked the State Government investigation into the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General- water resources of the Burdekin River ( 1) Has a company known as Women's been completed and, if so, will the report Radio 4BW Limited been formed and be made public? registered and, if not, has any other com­ (2) Has sufficient scope been allowed pany been registered to conduct a women's in the investigation to consider the radio station in Brisbane or nearby? added benefits other than water storage ( 2) If there is such a registered com­ and, in particular, the recommendation of pany, who are the directors and what the Kemp report, which stated that if a capital is involved? major dam were constructed at the Burdekin Falls site, a 1 000 megawatt (3) If no such company has been hydroelectric power station could be formed, what is the position of those per­ established in conjunction with the dam? sons who believe that they became involved in such a company in 1975 or later, believing that the company was to Answers:- be registered? (1) The agreed programme of field investigations has been completed and the Answers:- report is anticipated to be made public during 1977. (1 and 2) There is no company reg­ istered in the Office of the Commissioner (2) The terms of reference for the for Corporate Affairs with the name investigation include consideration of Women's Radio 4BW Limited. The Com­ hydroelectric power potential. missioner for Corporate Affairs is unaware of any company that has been registered with the specific object of conducting a 4. DANGEROUS TOYS women's radio station. Mr. Dean, pursuant to notice, asked the (3) If there are such persons, I would Minister for Health- suggest that they supply particulars to the (1) Is he aware of the New South Wales Commissioner for Corporate Affairs for Government's decision to take urgent action investigation (if warranted) or, alterna­ before the Christmas-gift period to ban tively, they could seek independent legal toys that could endanger the lives of young advice. children? (2) Has his department carried out any investigations into toys on sale in Queens­ 7. NEW POLICE COMMISSIONER AND land and, if so, what were the results? OFFICERS OF EQUAL OR SENIOR STATUS AT 1 NOVEMBER Answers:­ Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked the (1) Yes. Minister for Police- (2) The sale of toys in Queensland has ( 1 ) What were the names, rank, age been under continual surveillance since and position of all police officers who were the initiation by my department of action on 1 November considered to be senior unique to this State 40 years ago. Officers to the new commissioner, T. Lewis? of the Division of Public Health Super­ (2) What were the names, rank, age vision are continually checking the sale of and position of all police officers who were toys, and all reports show a satisfactory at 1 November considered to be of equal result for the protection of the public. status to the new commissioner? Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice 2115

Answers:- ( 1) As all inspectors are regarded by me as having equal status, the only police officers whom I considered to be senior to Commissioner Lewis were:-

Names Rank Age Positions

Taylor, Wi1liam Trevelyn . . Assistant Commissioner 59 yrs 6 mths Assistant Commr. (Admin. & Training) Hale, Spencer Moray . . . . Assistant Commissioner 50 yrs 7 mths Assistant Commr. (Metropolitan) Clifford, Francis ...... Assistant Commissioner 57 yrs 1 mth Assistant Commr. (Country) Becker, Dynes Malcolmson . . Chief Superintendent .. 59 yrs 9 mths Chief Superintendent McSporran, John ...... Superintendent . . . . 58 yrs 3 mths Crime Advisor Byles, Edward Sidney . . . . Superintendent . . . . 58 yrs 9 mths Regional Supt., Southern Region McDonald, Vernon A1ister . . Superintendent 55 yrs 4 mths Regional Supt., Brisbane Region Phillips, Steadman Percy Charles , Superintendent 59 yrs 7 mths Regional Supt., Northern Region Voigt, Louis James Irvine . . Superintendent 53 yrs 3 mths Regional Supt., Sth. Eastern Region Mcintyre, Robert Noel . . . . Superintendent 58 yrs 3 mths Regional Supt., Far Northern Region Matheson, Robert . . . . Superintendent 58 yrs 4 mths Superintendent, Services Duffy, Leslie Robert . . . . Superintendent 50 yrs 6 mths Regional Supt., North Coast Region McDonald, Donald . . . . Superintendent 50 yrs 9 mths Commandant, Qld. Police Academy Robinson, Edward . . . . Superintendent 47 yrs 5 mths Traffic Advisor West, Arthur William . . . . Superintendent 57 yrs 8 mths Regional Supt., Central Region Hielscher, Ray Leslie . . . . Superintendent 57 yrs 4 mths Regional Supt., South Brisbane Region

( 2) On the basis that all inspectors are of equal status, there were 106 police officers of equal status to Mr. Lewis on 1 November 1976. Having in mind the numbers involved, I do not propose listing all the details requested.

8. CONTRACT FOR CENTRAL STATE activities appear to be expanding unduly SCHOOL PRE-SCHOOL CENTRE rapidly, further detailed information is obtained into his capital structure, balance Mr. Ahern for Mr. Alison, pursuant to sheets, assets and liabilities, financial notice, asked the Minister for Works and history and so on. For this purpose a Housing- standard form of return is used, based on In view of the original contractor that adopted by authorities which have a apparently not being able to carry out the selective tendering system. construction of the Central State School Where a contractor has a continuity of pre-school centre, what procedures and work with the department, a record is kept checks are carried out to ensure that of his contractual commitments, in order tenderers for Works and Housing contracts to ensure that further contracts will not have the physical as well as the financial exceed his financial ea pacity. resources to carry out the contracts? Where a contractor's tender price Answer:- appears unduly low, he is given the oppor­ tunity to review his price and, if on review The physical resources of prospective he believes it to be too low, he is allowed contractors are checked in respect of staff to withdraw it. Where the price deficiency (administrative and supervisory), labour is considered too great, even though the force and standards of past and present tenderer may not wish to withdraw, accept­ performance on departmental and other ance of his tender will not be recom­ contracts. mended. Methods and procedures for checking the It should be appreciated that, no matter financial standing and capacity of prospec­ what precautions may be taken in this tive contractors include the following:­ context, once a departmental contract is (i) Discussion with contractor. let to a contractor, the department has no (ii) Reference to contractor's bankers control over his subsequent external com­ (with his prior approval). mitments. Suppliers and subcontractors (iii) Mercantile agency and credit should always take the necessary business bureau reports. precautions to safeguard their own (iv) Inquiries from major sub- interests. The best protection is self­ contractors and suppliers and from other protection. departments. ( v) Check on contractor's record of 9. PEDESTRIAN-ACTUATED TRAFFIC LIGHTS payment to trade creditors, for example, FOR PACIFIC HIGHWAY-DENNIS ROAD complaints from subcontractors, claims INTERSECTION under Subcontractors' Charges Act. The foregoing are more or less routine Mr. Goleby, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Local Government and Main pro~edures and, except for new con­ tractors, much of the information required Roads- is available from departmental records. In ( 1 ) Is he aware that a new high school the case of new contractors, or where in Springwood Road, Springwood, and a medium or large contracts are involved, new primary school in Dennis Road, or where a contractor's contractual Springwood, wi'l be opened next year? 2116 Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice

(2) As the opening of the schools will 11. POLICE VISIT IN PLAIN CLOTHES necessitate increased numbers of school­ TO KARARA PROPERTY children having to cross the Pacific High­ way at the Dennis Road intersection, will Mr. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked the he have the installation of pedestrian­ Minister for Police- actuated traffic lights expedited? (! ) Did police officers proceed from the Toowoomba Police District to the Warwick Police District, arriving in plain Answers:- clothes in a private car with N.S.W. regis­ (1) Yes. tration No. OSE-656, driven by a Miss Barbara Ann Cameron, at approximately (2) Lights and channelisation are 5.00 p.m. on 15 July at a property in planned for this intersection and the work Karara? will be carried out as soon as possible. (2) If so, what was their authority and The number of children that will have to under whose instruction did the police cross the highway will depend on the officers proceed to the property? boundary of the areas the new schools will serve. I will arrange for Main Roads (3) If no such instruction or authority officers to have discussions with the Educa­ was given, have charges been laid against tion Department in an endeavour to keep the police officers for subsequent actions the number of children crossing the high­ on that property? way to a minimum. I would rather funds be made available to grade, separate and Answers:­ keep the traffic and pedestrians separated. ( 1) Yes. (2) An official complaint was received at Toowoomba Police Station. Two Criminal Investigation Branch officers from Toowoomba accompanied the complainant lO. EXEMPTION OF APPRENTICES' WAGES on the authority of the Inspector of Police, FROM PAY-ROLL TAX Toowoomba, after Warwick police were Mr. Goleby, pursuant to notice, asked the advised of their intention of travelling to Deputy Premier and Treasurer- the Warwick district to investigate the complaint. In view of the concern shown by the ( 3 ) See answer to ( 2). If the honour­ community generally about the reduced able member has evidence of the com­ number of apprentices being trained in mission of any offence by the police industry, will he consider removing the officers concerned, I request him to supply requirement that apprentices' wages be included in the calculation for pay-roll tax me with such evidence. assessments, thus giving employers the incentive to employ more apprentices and, in so doing, reduce unemployment among 12. CoMPLAINT LAID AGAINST Miss B. A. young school-leavers? CAM ER ON Mr. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked the Answer:- Minister for Justice and Attorney-General- There is a limited amount which the ( 1) Was a complaint laid against a Miss State is able to forgo in terms of pay-roll Barbara Ann Cameron for assault and tax concessions and, as the honourable menacing with a deadly weapon at approxi­ member will be aware, steps have recently mately 5.00 p.m. on 31 July? been taken to grant special concessions in (2) If so, waat charges have been laid the area where the greatest need was con­ and, if not, why have the charges and/or sidered to exist, namely, that of the small the following action been suppressed and employer. These concessions are much at whose request, direction or instruction? more liberal than have been granted in other States and should provide worth­ Answer:- while encouragement towards additional employment in Queensland of both fully ( 1 and 2) The question should 'be trained employees and apprentices. directed to another Minister. I am aware that there have been sug­ Mr. Jones: Accordingly, I direct my ques­ gestions on a national basis for pay-roll tion to the Minister for Police. tax concessions to employers of apprentices and that detailed submissions are likely to come before me for consideration in 13. SPECIAL RAILWAY FREIGHT RATES the near future. While I see many prob­ FOR SUGAR AND GRAIN lems in the suggestions, including admini­ strative difficulties as well as the cost of Mr. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked the such a proposal to the State, I do not Minister for Transport- wish to decide the matter until the pro­ Cl) As sugar and grain growers have posal has been fully considered. shown that they favour the use of our Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice 2117

railways, has any consideration been given ( 4) Has the A. B. C. autonomy in the to special contract rates for sugar and selection of subject-matter for school grain haulage similar to those for coal? telecasts? (2) What rural industries have negoti­ (5) Will he confer with the Honourable ated special freight contract rates with the Eric Robinson, Commonwealth Minister for Railway Department and what are the Post and Telecommunications, with a view rates in each case? to (a) securing video tapes of "A Big Country", "Peach's Australia" and other Answers:- programmes for remote schools and (b) (1) No. The Railway Department has ensuring a balanced presentation of all no direct dealings with growers in the issues, especially mining and conservation? transport of raw sugar or wheat, which is the principal grain conveyed, in that the Answers:­ ownership of the individual consignment is (1) Yes. not vested in individual growers at the time (2) The greater part of the telecast was of railing. The seasonal haulage of sugar an extract from a "Four Corners" pro­ and grain is not comparable with the trans­ gramme made in August 1974. While the port of export coal, which is a year-round programme was addressed to a significant operation, involving the running of unit issue, its impact was lessened by the out­ trains between point A and point B, and dated content of the "Four Corners" incorporating extensive facilities financed extract, and by the fact that the production by the coal companies. was not originally intended for classroom (2) Freight agreements exist with indi­ use. vidual graziers for the carriage of wool to (3) No. Brisbane. The contract rates for wool have received considerable publicity and are as ( 4) Although the machinery for con­ follows:- sultation between my department and the A.B.C. exists, the A.B.C. is responsible for To Brisbane from- Rate per bale the selection and scheduling of pro­ grammes for school telecasts. $ (5) I will certainly be conferring with Goondiwindi and Texas 3.15 the Commonwealth Minister for Post and Tal wood 3.25 Thallon .. 3.35 Telecommunications along the lines sug­ Dirranbandi . . . . 3.60 gested. Cunnamulla and Quilpie .. 4.00 to 31-12-1976 Cunnamulla to Quilpie 5.00 from 1-1-1977 Bogantungan .. 5.00 15. AVENUE OF INFORMATION TO PUBLIC Longreach and Blackall 5.50 Yaraka and Winton 5.75 ON NEW PORT OF BRISBANE Hughenden 6.00 Richmond .. 6.25 Mr. Lamond, pursuant to notice, asked the Julia Creek .. 6.50 Minister for Tourism and Marine Services- Cloncurry .. 7.00 Beyond Cloncurry .. 7.25 With reference to an article in "The Courier-Mail" of 2 December attributed to These rates apply for intermediate sta­ the A.L.P. alderman for Waterloo Bay, tions, and a rebate of 50c per bale applies in which it is stated that a "major port where the distance of haul from the pro­ would ruin Wynnum", as there is little doubt perty to the railhead is 50 miles or more. that this negative statement was based on political motivation and sour grapes because the Lord Mayor of Brisbane was selected to serve on the port authority instead of 14. SELECTION OF SOCIAL STUDIES this alderman and as the statements are PROGRAMMES FOR SCHOOL TELECASTS intended to destroy the confidence of the Dr. Lockwood, pursuant to notice, asked people of Wynnum and surrounding dis­ the Minister for Education and Cultural tricts in the future Port of Brisbane, will Activities- the Minister arrange the setting up, either by the port authority or by his department, ( 1) Ha3 he, following complaints, of an avenue of information structured to viewed the television programme on the distribute to the public all information conservation of Lizard Island broadcast to about the proposed port and all aspects upper primary schools as a social studies associated with it, including environmental programme on 25 November? control, employment and commercial (2) Did it consist of a short introduction potential for the people of this area? and summary added to a 1974 "Four Corners" segment, with a definite bias Answer:- against the Queensland Government? Whilst I appreciate the concern of the (3) Does the Australian Broadcasting honourable member, in view of the pub­ Commission make school telecasts avail­ licity given to the A.L.P. alderman for able to the Education Department prior Waterloo Bay concerning his remark that to broadcasting? a "major port would ruin Wynnum", I 2118 Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice

find it difficult to treat the remark seriously, In summary, the average annual increase any more than I would treat seriously a in real terms over the 7 years, that is after remark that the major port at Hamilton taking account of inflation, was 5.8 per has ruined the suburbs of Ascot and cent and the average annual increase in Hamilton. actual expenditure 21.4 per cent. In fact, The Government's proposal to develop actual expenditure increased from port facilities at Fisherman Islands has $19,500,000 in 1969-70 to $63,500,000 in been laid open for public comment for 1975-76, an increase of 225 per cent. over two years and it is appropriate to say ( 4) My department does not keep that the A.L.P. alderman concerned has records of a sufficiently detailed nature to made no effort to raise any objection dur­ satisfactorily answer this question and I ing that time. It may well be that the would suggest that, if the honourable mem­ alderman's irresponsible comment was ber wishes to pursue this aspect of his motivated by sour grapes, as his nomina­ inquiries, he might do so through the tion for membership of the authority was appropriate Minister. not accepted by the Governor in Council. The most comprehensive studies which have been carried out in the past three to four years by my department concerning the future development of the Port of 17. POLICE CHARGED OVER CEDAR BAY Brisbane, all of which foresee only advan­ AFFAIR tages for the Wynnum area, will be passed Mr. Melloy, pursuant to notice, asked the to the Port of Brisbane Authority for its Minister for Police- consideration and action as it sees fit. It is not my intention to attempt to influence ( 1) What are the names and the ranks the authority in its actions on this matter. of the police summonsed over the Cedar Bay affair? (2) What charges have been laid against 16. EXPENDITURE ON POLICE which police officers? DEPARTMENT (3) Have the police charged been sus­ Mr. MeHoy, pursuant to notice, asked the pended from duty as is normal practice Deputy Premier and Treasurer- throughout Australia and, if not, what is ( 1) For each of the past seven years, the reason? what was the total spending on the Police Department? Answers:- (2) What was the percentage increase (1 and 2) Four police officers were or decrease from year to year? summonsed on a total of 25 charges. ( 3) What was the percentage increase Pending the appearance of those officers for each year, taking inflation into account? in court to answer the said charges, I do not propose supplying the information ( 4) What particular areas of the depart­ sought. ment have experienced significant decreases or increases in expenditure in each of the ( 3) The police officers concerned were years compared with expenditure in the not suspended from duty. The inference previous year? that this is a departure from normal prac­ tice is incorrect. It appears that the hon­ Answers:- ourable member would want them to be suspended. ( 1 to 3) I have had prepared a com­ posite table which shows the total capital and recurrent expenditure on the Police Department for the seven years up to and including 1975-76, together with the annual 18. RESIGNATIONS FROM POLICE FORCE percentage increases expressed in both Mr. Melloy, pursuant to notice, asked the actual and real terms. Minister for Police- This is quite a detailed table and I ask In view of the statement by the Premier that it be incorporated in "Hansard". that about 800 police officers bad resigned during the term of Mr. Whitrod as Com­ Chan¥e on Change on missioner of Police, will the Minister Actual preVIOUS previous Expendi- year's actual year in real provide the resignation figures for each ------tu re expenditure terms year from November 1970, when Mr. ------Whitrod was appointed commissioner, $ % % until the time of his retirement? 1975-76 .. 63,493,886 3!·7 15·8 1974-75 .. 48,215,446 32·7 4·4 1973-74 .. 36,330,466 20·5 3·7 Answer:- 1972-73 .. 30,146,150 15·2 5·6 1971-72 26,159,658 19·0 6·9 Mr. Whitrod was appointed Commis­ 1970-71 .. 21,983,027 12·7 2·1 lq69-70 19,501,752 15·3 8·0 sioner of Police as from 1 September 1970 and not November 1970 as implied in the Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice 2119

question. Consequently, I outline here­ ( 4) In each of the last three financial under the information sought covering the years, how many stand-down applications period 1 September 1970 to 28 November were made to the Industrial Commission 197 6 inclusive. and how many were successful? Period Resignations 1-9-70 to 30-6-71 105 Answers:- 1-7-71 to 30-6-72 77 1-7-72 to 30-6-73 101 (1) 1973-74-136; 1974-75-178; 1975- 76-191. The commission's initial role is 1-7-73 to 30-6-74 147 to act as a conciliator in an industrial dis­ 1-7-74 to 30-6-75 124 pute. It is not possible to advise which 1-7-75 to 30-6-76 141 disputes were "settled" by the commission. 1-7-76 to 28-11-76 47 ,-- (2 and 3) This information is not readily Total 742 available. (4) 1973-74-1; 1974-75-9; 1975-76- 14; 1973-74-1 granted; 1974-75-3. granted, 3 withdrawn, 3 lapsed; 1975-76- 8 granted, 1 refused, 2 cases not heard, 19. DEMOUNTABLE CLASSROOMS FOR 1 withdrawn, 2 adjourned sine die. PRE-SCHOOLS IV!r. Jensen, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Works and Housing- Until sufficient funds are available for 21. INCREASED FIRE BRIGADE COSTS permanent pre-school buildings, will he, together with the Minister for Education Mr. Jensen, pursuant to notice, asked the and Cultural Activities, investigate the use Minister for Industrial Development, Labour of the latest demountable classrooms for Relations and Consumer Affairs- pre-schools, in order to save $60,000 or more on each pre-school for use on new ( 1) Has his attention been drawn to the classrooms needed for primary and second­ higher than average escalation of costs ary schools? associated with the operation of fire brigades? Answer:- (2) What action is the Government The Departments of Works and Educa­ taking to curb the increases? tion have an established committee which has functioned for some time for the ( 3) Are the activities of the State Fire purposes of reviewing education building Services Council significantly contributing designs including pre-schools. It has alwavs to the escalation of costs and, if not, can been the objective of the departments to he provide some information to support reduce the costs of construction of educa­ this? tion buildings consistent with reasonably low maintenance building standards. Sav­ ings of $60,000 or more on each pre­ Answers:- school unit could not be achieved how­ (1) Yes. The higher-than-average esca­ ever, since the average contract pri~e of a lation of costs of fire brigades is due to pre-school unit is $60,000 or less. increased wages and salaries which have risen at a rate faster than most other wages and salaries and represent approximately 77 per cent of the total budget for fire 20. DISPUTES REFERRED TO INDUSTRIAL brigades. CoMMISSION (2) Budgets submitted by fire brigade Mr. Jensen, pursuant to notice, asked the boards for 1976-77 totalled $27,840,560. Minister for Industrial Development, Labour Budgets approved by the Government Relations and Consumer Affairs- totalled 25,295,840. The Government took ( 1) In each of the last three financial action in the previous session of Parlia­ years, how many disputes were referred to ment to amend the Fire Brigades Act to the Industrial Commission and how many provide that the State Fire Services Council of such disputes were settled by the may be deemed a fire brigade employer commission? and a party to proceedings before the Industrial Commission if it is of the (2) On how many occasions in each opinion that an industrial cause affects or of the last three financial years has the is likely to affect more than one fire Industrial Commission issued an order brigade board. Not only the council but subsequent to a dispute? the Crown have on a number of occasions (3) On how many occasions in each made submissions to the commission where financial year has an order of the Industrial it was considered that there would be Commission been disobeyed by (a) a trade undesirable effects from applications for union and (b) an employer? award vaciations. 2120 Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice

(3) No. The council is required to 23. UNIT FOR CHILDREN WITH IMPAIRED examine not only fire brigade budgets but HEARING, ZILLMERE NORTH SCHOOL also all applications for extra staff and borrowing proposals for capital works sub­ Mr. Akers, pursuant to notice, asked the mitted by boards. Were it not for the Minister for Education and Cultural Activi­ oversight of the council, there would be ties- higher costs in relation to capital expendi­ ( 1) What area of Brisbane is the pro­ ture and equipment purchases. Adoption posed unit at Zillmere North School for of standardised Australian-made fire appli­ children with impaired hearing intended ances has also contributed substantially to to serve? cost savings. (2) What is the intended use of this facility?

Answers:- 22. COMMONWEALTH AND STATE AID TO COMMUNITY KINDERGARTEN ASSOCIATIONS (!) The primary unit for hearing­ impaired children at Zillmere North State Mr. Akers, pursuant to notice, asked the School is intended for children in North Deputy Premier and Treasurer- Brisbane within reasonable access by taxi What financial support may community transport to be provided by the Education kindergarten associations expect in 1977 Department. from the State Government and from the (2) The facility is intended to be used Commonwealth Government through the as an educational setting for hearing­ State Government? impaired children whose communication skills have reached a level which will enable Answer:- them to take advantage of integration to a The matter is still under negotiation considerable degree with children in the with the Commonwealth and I cannot give normal classroom. a clear-cut answer to the question. I can say, however- The Commonwealth has offered a block grant of $4,170,000 for the period January 24. PRE-SCHOOL FOR BEENLEIGH to June 1977, ostensibly to provide a Mr. GibbS, pursuant to notice, asked the contribution to pre-school services, both Minister for Education and Cultural Activi­ State and community based, at a similar ties- level to that applying at present which, as the honourable member would be ( 1) Has a site been purchased in Been­ aware, covers 75 per cent of the full cost leigh for a pre-school? of approved staff subject to certain terms (2) What plans are in hand to construct and conditions. Under these circumstances a pre-school? the State meets the 25 per cent balance of full cost of approved staff. Answers:- However, the Commonwealth's ( 1) Clearance has now been given by $4,170,000 is based on June 1976 costs the Land Administration Commission to and no provision has been made by the build on land acquired in Beenleigh. Commonwealth for escalation since that date. It follows that, unless the Common­ (2) Planning and documentation for the wealth agrees to make allowance for cost pre-school building should be completed increases, the Government subsidy to by March 1977 and release of the project kindergartens could be expected to be at for construction will depend on availability a level short of the total cost of approved of funds. staff. All States have put strong arguments to the Commonwealth on this issue and we are presently awaiting a response. The Commonwealth assistance for the second 25. DENTAL CLINIC FOR WEIPA SOUTH six months of 1977 has not yet been deter­ AND SERVICES FOR COOK ELECTORATE mined. Mr. Deeral, pursuant to notice, asked the As the matter presently stands, it could, Minister for Health- I think, be assumed that those kinder­ ( 1) Will a dental clinic be conducted gartens which qualify under the provisions at Weipa South on a regular basis when and conditions laid down by the State and the new dentist takes up duty at Weipa? the Commonwealth will receive Govern­ ment assistance in 1977 at a level which (2) What dental services are being con­ at the worst will be short of the present ducted in the electorate of Cook? 100 per cent of ful! cost of approved staff to the extent of the Commonwealth's Answers:- share of cost increases since June 1976. (!) The Weipa South Dental Clinic is Strong arguments are being advanced for presently serviced by an itinerant dental the Commonwealth to recognise the team employed by the Cairns Hospitals obvious cost of wage escalations. Board. This service will continue. Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice 2121

2. (a) Dental teams based at Cairns and Answers:- employed by the Cairns Hospitals Board ( 1) Following continuing interest and service the following areas in the Cook strong representations by my colleague the electorate: Aurukun, Bloomfield, Coen, Honourable Ron Camm, Minister for Cooktown, Croydon, Edward River, Mines and Energy and member for Whit­ Georgetown, Hopevale, Kowanyama, Lock­ sunday, I am pleased to say that design hart River, Normanton, Weipa North, is nearing completion for tenders early Weipa South, Yarrabah. in 1977. (b) The Thursday Island Hospitals (2) The approaches are programmed to Board provides a dental service at Thurs­ allow the bridge to be opened as soon day Island and Bamaga. The dentist from as possible following completion. Both Thursday Island recently provided a ser­ contract and day-labour forces will be vice to the western group of Torres Strait used. islands and the Thursday Island Hospitals (3) Land resumptions are in progress Board proposes that the dentist will visit and will not delay the work. As the the eastern and central groups of islands Minister for Mines and Energy knows, the at a later date, following the represent­ Commonwealth notified me only last week ations of the honourable member. of its approval to call tenders and, as most contractors close over the Christmas-New Year period, this will be done early in 1977. The Minister and I have been working in close co-operation on this pro­ 26. ABORIGINAL HEALTH TEAM FOR GULF ject and we are both extremely pleased COMMUNITIES that this point has been reached. Mr. Deeral, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Health- Is he aware of the urgent need to have an Aboriginal health team based at 28. ROAD AND RAIL ACCESS TO Normanton or Weipa so that this worth­ MACKAY HARBOUR while and much appreciated service can continue within the Gulf communities? Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Local Government and Main Roads- Answer:- ( 1) Has the design been completed of Following the honourable member's the section of the proposed new export representations, plans have already been road through North Mackay to the Mackay made to station Aboriginal health teams Harbour and, if not, what are the reasons at both Normanton and Weipa. Nego­ for the delay? tiations are continuing regarding accom­ (2) When will this work be undertaken? modation at both centres and when these (3) As the new export road will com­ are finalised it is hoped to have staff pletely change the traffic pattern in North available. Mackay, what plans does the Main Roads Department have to upgrade the Mackay­ Habana road from its intersection with the proposed new Rocleigh Road near the golf club gates back to the Malcolmson 27. ROCLEIGH BRIDGE, MACKAY Street intersection, and what type of crossing will be installed where the pro­ Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked the posed new rail access to Mackay Minister for Local Government and Main Harbour crosses this road? Roads- ( 1) What stage has been reached in the Answers:- design of the Rocleigh Bridge across the Pioneer River at Mackay and when is it (!) A planning report has been com­ now anticipated that tenders will be called pleted and forwarded to the Common­ for its construction? wealth for approval since this road is an export road. (2) Will the construction of the (2) As soon as possible commencing in approaches proceed simultaneously with the the 1977-78 financial year if an export construction of the bridge and will this road category continues after June 1977. work be carried out by contract, by the department's day-labour work-force or by (3) The roads in North Mackay will be the respective local authorities? upgraded consistent with funds that may be available and planning has taken this ( 3) Have land resumptions for the into account. The new Roads Acts to approach roads and the proposed inter­ operate after 30 June 1977 have a bearing connectors, including the new Rocleigh on these matters. The new railway access Road, been carried out and, if not, what to Mackay Harbour will be grade-separ­ are the reasons? ated where it crosses the road. 2122 Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice

29. DELAY IN RATIFICATION OF WHEAT I would not be able to attend a public AGREEMENT meeting before the objections close but would be prepared to do so in the New Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked the Year on a mutually convenient date. How­ Minister for Primary Industries- ever, as the objections would then be ( 1) Is he aware that the Auditor­ under consideration by the Valuer-General, General in his report to Parliament this who is a free and independent authority, year severely criticised the delay in the it would not be proper for me to discuss ratification of the remuneration agreement individual valuations. Nevertheless, I between the Australian and State Wheat would be prepared to discuss the provis­ Boards? ions of the Valuation of Land Act 1944-- 1975 in a general way and also speak on (2) What has been the cause of this valuation matters generally but without delay and what action has been taken to particular reference to the valuation of rectify the situation? the Shire of Douglas. (3) What inconvenience has been caused to the State's wheat growers by this delay?

Answers:­ 31. NEW BRIDGE ACROSS BRISBANE RIVER FROM MOGGILL (1) Yes. Mr. Marginson, pursuant to notice, asked (2) The remuneration agreement is the Minister for Local Government and negotiated by the relevant State bulk­ Main Roads- handling authorities and the Australian Wheat Board. The agreement is then rati­ ( 1) Is the Main Roads Department fied by the particular State Minister con­ giving consideration to a proposal to con­ cerned and the Commonwealth Minister struct a bridge across the Brisbane River for Primary Industry. from Moggill to connect with the Ipswich­ Brisbane Highway at a point between Although agreement has been reached Riverview and Redbank? between the State Wheat Board and the Australian Wheat Board for the three-year (2) How far has this proposal been period ended 30 September 1976, the developed and when is a bridge likely to Commonwealth authorities have not, as be constructed? yet, forwarded the document for execu­ tion. Answers:­ (3) Queensland's wheat growers have (!) Yes. not suffered from this delay. (2) The proposal is only in the prelimin­ ary investigation stage and construction dates have not been considered at this stage. This is forward planning so that the project can proceed when funds are 30. DOUGLAS SHIRE REVALUATION available. Mr. Tenni, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Survey and Valuation- Will he and his advisers attend a public 32. TRAFFIC SIGNALS AT INTERSECTIONS meeting in Mossman, at a date and time WITH IPSWICH-BRISBANE HIGHWAY, to suit all, for the purpose of discussing DARRA with the ratepayers of the Douglas Shire the unrealistic revaluations within that Mr. Marginson, pursuant to notice, asked shire and, if so, what date is suitable? the Minister for Local Government and Main Roads- Answer:- ( 1) Regarding my requests to him for Notices of the new valuation for the the installation of traffic signals at the Shire of Douglas were issued on 14 Octo­ junctions of Archerfield Road and Scotts ber 1976. Therefore, the last day for lodg­ Road with the Ipswich-Brisbane Highway ing a valid objection is Monday next, 13 at Darra, are the plans for this work December 1976. I would advise all land­ completed? owners who are dissatisfied with their (2) Has finance been approved for the valuations, and wish to contest them, to installations? lodge an objection within the prescribed (3) When will the work commence? time and to answer "yes" to the question as to whether they desire a conference with the Valuer-General or his delegate. Answers:- If they do this, they will be afforded an (1) Plans are nearing completion. opportunity to discuss the valuation in a free, frank and informal manner on a (2) Yes. "without prejudice" basis. (3) This financial year. Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice 2123

33. IPSWICH COAL-MINE QUOTAS FOR 35. PROFESSOR D. P. O'CONNELL SWANBANK POWER STATION Mr. K. J. Hooper, pursuant to notice, Mr. Marginson, pursuant to notice, asked asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney­ the Minister for Mines and Energy- General- ( 1) What are the current quotas for ( 1) Regarding the Return to an Order the supply of coal by the various coal­ showing fees paid to barristers and mines in Ipswich to the Swanbank Power solicitors for the year ended 30 June 1976, Station? which has been tabled in this Parliament, is the barrister D. P. O'Connell who is (2) Does the Coal Board propose to shown to have received an amount of reduce the quotas and, if so, what are the $44,041.00 from the Crown the Professor quotas allowed for the various coal-mines O'Connell in England who is the Premier's for the supply of coal to the Swanbank legal adviser on constitutional matters? Power Station for 1977? (2) If not, how much has Professor Answer:- O'Connell received in fees from the Queens­ This information is regarded as confiden­ land Government for his services and will tial between the supplier, the consumer the Minister table an itemised account of and the Queensland Coal Board, and is how much was paid and for what particular therefore not available for publication. services? (3) Is Professor O'Connell being retained to advise the Queensland Govern­ ment or the Premier on any other matters and, if so, what are the other matters? 34. SPEECH THERAPISTS ( 4) What are Professor O'Connell's Mrs. Kippin, pursuant to notice, asked the legal qualifications? Minister for Education and Cultural Activities- (5) For how long has Professor O'Connell practised law in Australia and ( 1) How many speech therapists are for how long has he practised law in employed by the Education Department? Queensland? (2) Where are they stationed and what area is each expected to cover? Answers:- (3) How many children are receiving ( 1) Yes. Professor O'Connell is a legal treatment from these specialists? adviser to the Queensland Government on constitutional and other legal matters. Answers:- (2) See answer to (1). ( I) Forty speech therapists are currently (3) No. employed in the Guidance and Special Education Branch. Of this number nine (4 and 5) It appears to me that the pro­ therapists are on part-time duties. fessional competency of Professor O'Connell as a legal consultant to 1he (2) Speech therapists are currently Queensland Government is of such a located as follows: standard as to provide a definite hind­ Brisbane, 27 (including 4 part-time); Ips­ rance to the constitutional aims of the wich, 3 (including 1 part-time); Nambour, A.L.P.-which, as we all know, are to 1; Redcliffe, 1; Gold Coast, 1; Too­ the detriment of Queensland and Queens­ woomba, 3 (including 2 part-time); War­ landers-and, consequently, I do not con­ wick, 1 (part-time); Rockhampton, 1; sider any further comment necessary. Mackay, 1 (part-time); Cairns, 1. In general, a speech therapist is located at a central school within a district. The number of schools serviced at the central clinic depends on the size of schools 36. OFFICE OF PROFIT UNDER THE CROWN; within the district and the incidence of MEMBER FOR ASHGROVE severe speech and language difficulties in that particular district. Mr. K. J. Hooper, pursuant to notice, (3) On an average, depending on asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney­ whether a therapist treats individually or General- in groups, each speech therapist treats ( 1) With reference to his answer given approximately 40 children in any one on 2 December in relation to the office of week. The total number of children cur­ profit enjoyed by Mr. John Ward Green­ rently receiving treatment is in the vicinity wood, when was this exemption given to of 1,440. barristers? 2124 Questions Upon Notice (7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice

(2) Who approved the exemption? In effect, what happens is that these persons who have been authorised can (3) Will he table in the House the legal then be briefed in the usual way and paid opinion on this matter? fees determined by the Crown Solicitor for their professional services rendered. ( 4) Is he aware of the case of Hedel v. The "appointment" in the Government Cruickshank 1889, where it was held that Gazette of itself means nothing; no entitle­ the office of a simple poundkeeper under ment flows from it and no office is created. the Empounding Office was an office of profit under the Crown? The "appointment"-or, more accur­ ately, "authority"-is merely an authorisa­ (5) Is he also aware that in the more tion to do what a Crown Law Officer extensive case of Bowman v. Hood 1899 (Attorney-General and Solicitor) can in­ a member was also a member of the herently do without specific authority. Central Rabbit Board and all that he was entitled to receive were travelling expenses It will be clear that no exemption was and nominal fees and he received neither given, because none was necessary. and it was held that an office of profit did Mr. Greenwood is not the holder of an exist? office of profit and was not at his election (6) Is he aware that even where no fees to this House on 7 December 1974. are received, it is sufficient in law that (3) The Government has available to it fees are capable of being made? legal advice from the highest quarter which confirms the views expressed herein. (7) Did Mr. John Ward Greenwood It is not the practice to table legal advice abandon the representation of his electorate nor is this the appropriate place to enter on 17 March and did he receive two days' into a debate. pay from the Crown for one day's work? (4 to 6) The cases and principles are ( 8) Will he refer the matter to the Court well known to ,the Crown's legal advisers of Disputed Returns, as this seems the and are not relevant in the present matter. most appropriate forum to determine a question of law as to whether the member (7) No. can continue in his seat and also because it (8) The honourable member seems 'to seems that, under the provision of our have been reading the wrong Act. There law, every day the member sits illegally is no Court of Disputed Returns in Queens­ in this House he is liable to a penalty if land. Section 5 of the Officials in Par­ sued by a member of the community? liament Act provides for no such penalty as is suggested. It is a pity that the hon­ Answers:- ourable member did not read the whole of section 5. He would have seen that even (1 and 2) The honourable member has if, as at 7 Deember 1974, Mr. Greenwood obviously misunderstood my previous had held an office of profit-which, of answer. I there stated that the appoint­ course, is not the case, but assuming it ment of a barrister to present indictments were-he would not have been disqualified is not an appointment to an office of profit from standing as a candidate and his under the Crown within the meaning of election of itself would have vacated any Section 5 of the Officials in Parliament office of profit held. Act. So that there can be no further misunderstanding, I shall state in clear I can appreciate the concern which the 'terms the legal position. honourable member has, and I understand the motives which have prompted his Mr. Greenwood, in common with num­ questions. I am happy to have put his erous other barristers, has been appointed fears at rest. I can appreciate the difficulty to sign and present indictments in criminal he has had in understanding the law and courts. The reason for such appointments it is my intention in due course to endeav­ -not, incidentally, a commission (see our ,to have the matter put on a more Government Gazette 13-10-73)-is that realistic basis by a clear and concise leg­ the Crown will have available a number of islative statement of what is expected of counsel from the private bar who can be members of this House in their relation­ called upon to appear for the Crown in ships with the Crown. criminal prosecutions. Without such auth­ ority-and, essentially, that is all that it is -no formal charge could be presented. The considerable increase in criminal pro­ secution over the past few years has meant 37. INQUIRY INTO POLICE OVER CALOUNDRA that the Crown, through its regular Crown INCIDENT prosecutors who are within the Public Service, has not been able to cope with Mr. K. J. Hooper, pursuant to notice, the work involved. 'consequently, it has asked the Minister for Police- been necessary

of the nine young people at Caloundra, 40. HOUSE DESIGN FOR INLAND NORTH what is the name of the officer charged and QUEENSLAND what is his rank? Mr. Katter, pursuant to notice, asked the (2) As over three months have elapsed Minister for Works and Housing- since I referred this matter to him, has the inquiry been completed and, if so, Will he issue a directive to his depart­ what was the result? ment requesting that all future houses built in inland North Queensland be con­ Answer:- structed for hot, arid regions, which neces­ (1 and 2) As previously advised, a mem­ sitate overhanging roofs to protect the ber of the Queensland Police Force has walls from heat and weathering, steel been charged with misconduct arising frames, and design to enable evaporative from the complaint. The police officer air-conditioning without the necessity for has pleaded not guilty to the charge and, ducting? pending its determination, I do not pro­ pose to supply further information in rela­ tion to the matter. Answer:- Commission designers are aware of the special problems of hot arid areas, and designs are under constant review. 38. BALD HILLS-BURPENGARY BYPASS The Australian Housing Research Coun­ Mr. Frawley, pursuant to nocice, asked the cil of which I am a member has a project Minister for Local Government and Main proposal before it to research building Roads- for those areas. What is the expected completion date of The Queensland Government is already the Bald Hills-Burpengary bypass on the funding a research project at the University Bruce Highway? of Queensland into measurement of solar radiation, to assist building designers who Answer:- have to cope with this problem. Four lanes to Redcliffe Road by June 1977, and four lanes to Burpengary by Any construction method meeting the late 1977. needs must also be competitive with others in both initial and ongoing costs, and there is no commitment to any particular material. The honourable member will see that considerable expert thought is 39. WORKS FOR SHIRES IN FLINDERS being given to the problems and no doubt ELECTORATE; FEEDER ROADS his theories will be amply tested. TO FLINDERS HIGHWAY Mr. Katter, pursuant to notice, asked the Minffiter for Local Government 1and Main Roads- ( 1) What work is planned in the shires of Dalrymple, Flinders, Richmond and 41. QUEENSLAND BEEF STABILISATION McKinlay? SCHEME (2) Will he have his department look at Mr. Katter, pursuant to notice, asked the proposals for a feeder-road system to Minister for Primary Industries- the Flinders Highway, giving all of the people of North Queensland and the ( 1) In the light of recent cattle sales products they produce year-round access in north-western Queensland, where hun­ to this great arterial link with the rest dreds of fair-quality cows were sold for of Australia? $1.50 a head, and in view of recent union delegations to me concerning the extensive Answers:- employment of graziers as fettlers on the (1) Work is planned for feeder roads northern line, will he highlight the fact such as Torrens Creek-Aramac, Maxwelton­ that a significant increase in exports next Bunda, McKinlay-Gilliat, Richmond­ year will have no effect on the prevailing Winton, Julia Creek-Kynuna and similar price to the producer by listing the volume roads for implementation over this and of disappearance, that is, home consump­ the next few financial years. tion plus export, and the price to the producer for beef over the last five years? (2) The feeder-road system to the Flinders Highway will be developed as (2) As the supply of beef is constant, funds become available, but it is also will he assure the House that these figures necessary to reconstruct the old sections demonstrate conclusively the need for the of the Flinders Highway and these must immediate implementation of the Queens­ also have some priority. land beef stabilisation scheme? 2126 Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice

Answer:- (1 and 2) I shall table the statistics showing the disappearance of beef on both domestic and export markets for the last five years, and the average price for export beef over those years, but I ask that they be included in ''Hansard".

Domestic Total Average Prices Consumption Exports Disappearance for export Year (carcass (carcass (carcass quality ox equivalent) equivalent) equivalent) 301-320 kg - '000 tonnes '000 tonnes '000 tonnes c/kg dressed wt. 1971-72 .. .. 521 636 1,157 65·9 1972-73 .. . . 550 884 1,434 77·6 1973-74 .. . . 590 739 1,329 82·4 1974-75 .. . . 851 648 1,499 32·2 1975-76 .. . . 902 797 1,699 46·3

(Source: Australian Meat Board and Queensland Department of Primary Industries)

It is uncertain what effects a significant (2) What specific topics and areas of increase in exports will have next year. interest were studied? If a deficit of beef on the world market (3) When does he intend to report on begins to develop and world demand con­ these matters to Parliament? tinues to improve, then prices could rise and larger volumes could be sold at more ( 4) On what day did he leave Queens­ attractive prices. If, on the other hand, land for overseas and on what day did he the world beef market continues to be return? stagnant, then large volumes of exports (5) What are the details of his move­ will continue to be disposed of at very ments with specific reference to cities and unattractive prices. towns visited on each of the days spent away? It should be understood that the supply of beef is not necessarily constant. Supply ( 6) What persons accompanied him can vary markedly depending on seasonal and/ or were officially attached to his conditions, on markets and on the par­ entourage at any time during his period ticular point reached in the production abroad, for what periods respectively were cycle. Nevertheless, the fact remains that they so attached and what were the duties there are still large numbers of surplus of each person? cattle to be disposed of, and there will (7) What was the total sum of the continue to be large numbers of cattle expenditure incurred by him and members turned off for slaughter in the near future. of his staff in fares, accommodation, other travelling expenses, entertainment expenses The unstable nature of the beef market and all other expenses charged to the Gov­ in recent years emphasises the urgent need ernment during the period from the date to implement the beef stabilisation scheme of his departure from Queensland until proposed by Queensland. Such a scheme his return on completion of his overseas would guarantee producers a minimum tour? price for their cattle, and bring some stability to the export and domestic mar­ kets. I hope the other States and the Answer:- Commonwealth will press vigorously for the ( 1 to 7) Other than to assure the early implementation of the scheme, as does honourable member that mv purpose in Queensland. travelling overseas earlier this year was to further the interests of the State and its people, I do not propose to take up the time of the House in furnishing a detailed account of my movements. 42. OVERSEAS TRIP BY MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT, LABOUR My visit overseas occurred towards the RELATIONS AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS end of the financial year. As a con­ sequence, those expenses for which accounts Mr. Margi:nson for Mr. Yewdale, pursuant had been received were included in the to notice, asked the Minister for Industrial return of minis'erial expenses for 1975-76 Development, Labour Relations and Consumer which was tabled in the House recently. Affairs- The balance will be included in the return ( 1) What were the reasons for his travel for 1976-77, which no doubt will be tabled overseas this year? at the appropriate time. Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Questions Upon Notice 2127

43. S.G.l.O. LEASE, KIN KORA SHOPPING (2) Will only those graduates who have MALL, GLADSTONE been receiving Government allowances be Mr. Prest, pursuant to notice, asked the employed and will special preference be Deputy Premier and Treasurer- given to single students over married female students? Does the S.G.I.O. have a clause in its ( 3) How many additional teachers will lease agreement regarding shops in the be employed next year? Kin Kora shopping mall, Gladstone, that, in the event of the business being sold, 20 ( 4) How many of these will be drawn per cent of the sale price in relation to from 1976 graduates? goodwill must be given to the S.G.I.O.? (5) How many teachers have graduated this year? Answer:- ( 6) Over the next two years will the y es. This is not an uncommon com­ Government gradually cull out those mercial practice in shopping centres. The married women teachers who are not success of an incoming tenant can be totally dependent upon their teaching prejudiced by high goodwills based on salaries? the success of the centre as a whole. It does not apply in certain forced sales. Answers:- ( 1) It is pointed out that students under­ taking teacher-training courses at colleges 44. GovERNMENT Am FOR MT. MoRGAN of advanced education are being prepared to teach not only for State schools, but !VIr. Presr, pursuant to notice, asked the also for independent schools and kinder­ Premier- gartens and for the Commonwealth teach­ As great concern is being shown for ing service. Therefore, my department people in the mining centres where mining never anticipates employing all graduates. is to cease, what action has been taken As usually happens, a restriction is by the Government to assist the miners placed on the numbers of teachers who emp'oyed at Mt. Morgan mine and the can be employed at the beginning of a people of Mt. Morgan who would be school year. Most teachers who are willing affected by the closure of that mine? and able to serve anywhere in the State are offered employment early in the year. Answer:- Others who place restrictions on the areas The honourable member should be aware in which they are prepared to serve may that the current level of confidence in have to wait till later in the year before Mt. Morgan itseH is sound, with upwards gaining employment. of 80 of the retrenched miners having It is not anticipated that the situation found work elsewhere in the region. in 1977 will be very different from that As recently as 29 November, the shire which has applied in previous years. My chairman made a Press statement that the department faces no dilemma. future prospects for Mt. Morgan were ( 2) It is not correct that only bonded sound and the chairman of the Chamber students will be employed by my depart­ of Commerce stated that business in the ment. A number of non-bonded students town was much better than had been have already been offered and have expected 12 months ago. An influx of accepted employment for 1977. population replacing those that had left the mine has helped to reduce the impact As mentioned above, preference for of workers moving out of the town. employment is given to those students who can serve anywhere or nearly anywhere in A study by Government instrumentalities the State irrespective of their marital status completed in January 1976 was carried or sex. out to assist the Mt. Morgan Shire in its planning for the future. (3) Approval has been given for the employment of an additional 1,380 ,teachers between December 1976 and February 1977. However, a number in excess of this will need to be offered employment to take 45. EMPLOYMENT OF GRADUATES FROM account of resignations over this period. COLLEGES OF ADVANCED EDUCATION; MARRIED WOMEN TEACHERS ( 4) 1,840 graduates have applied for positions. 1,700 have already been allotted Mr. Marginson for Mr. Wright, pursuant to schools. It is anticipated that over the to natice, asked the Minister for Education next few weeks offers will be made to the and Cultural Activities- majority of the remaining applicants. Pro­ ( 1) Is his department confronted with vided they are prepared to serve in areas a dilemma in that not all teachers who where they are needed, they will be graduate from colleges of advanced educa­ employed. From past experience, many tion will be able to be employed in the non-bonded applicants often fail to take teaching service next year? up employment. 2128 Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976} Questions Upon Notice

(5) Final results in a number of courses (4) Was any product derived from have not yet been announced and it is not molasses imported on the freighter possible to give accurate figures at this "Safocean Albany"? stage. However, it is anticipated that approximately 1,200 primary, pre-school (5) What is the destination of the and special teachers and approximately molasses article? 750 secondary teachers will graduate. (6) Is the same substance produced by ( 6) There is no Government policy to our sugar industry? dispense with the services of married (7) Has any action been taken to pro­ women teachers who are not totally tect local industries against the effects of dependent on their teaching salaries. such imports? It is possible that over the next few years teachers who resign, particularly from Answers:- the primary and pre-school divisions, may (1) I understand that, over the last five find increasing difficulty in gaining months, four shipments of beef arrived by re-employment if they are restrictive in the air from New Zealand at the Brisbane areas in which they are prepared to serve. airport. Some shipments may have arrived Obviously, teachers who have served in on a Tuesday night, but there is certainly remote areas must be given preference for no regular shipment every Tuesday night. placement in what might be considered to The quantity imported has been very small, to be more favourable areas. with only 6.8 tonnes imported over the five-month period. In contrast, Queensland 46. CoNsUMER CoMPLAINTS AGAINST produced 495 509 tonnes of beef and veal FIRMS SELLING SWIMMING-POOLS in 1975-76. (2) Thomas Borthwicks and Sons Ltd. Mr. Marginson for Mr. Wright, pursuant has been the major importer. I under­ to notice, asked the Minister for Industrial stand that this is a specialty beef imported Development, Labour Relations and Con­ by Borthwicks from their meatworks in sumer Affairs- New Zealand for sale on the local market. ( 1) How many complaints has the Con­ sumer Affairs Bureau received during each (3) Molasses is not normally imported of the last three years regarding problems into Queensland, and the Australian with companies or firms selling swimming­ Bureau of Statistics' figures show no pools? imports for the 1975-76 year. (2) What action has been taken to com­ (4) A shipment of dehydrated molasses bat the growing problems of $2 companies was imported recently from South Africa that undertake to provide services and on the freighter "Safocean Albany". products under long-term warranties but (5) Dehydrated molasses is incorporated go out of business within a few years? into stock feed blocks or cubes which can be transported to grazing areas more Answers:- cheaply than the normal molasses which (1) 1973-74-75; 1974-75-58; 1975-76 has traditionally been used in stock feed -90. licks. The figures quoted embrace problems (6) A very small quantity of a similar concerning various aspects of the installa­ substance is produced in Queensland. tion of swimming-pools, including deposits, warranties, covers, linings, surface coatings, (7) No action has been taken to protect retaining walls and surrounding, accessories the local industry as existing marketing and availability of parts, plumbing, etc. arrangements are satisfactory. (2) This aspect of the honourable member's question is one for the considera­ tion of the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General. 48. SUNDAY FLEA MARKETS, BRISBANE Mr. Marginson for Mr. Dean, pursuant to 47. IMPORTS OF STEAK AND MOLASSES notice, asked the Minister for Industrial Mr. Marginson for Mr. Dean, pursuant to Development, Labour Relations and Con­ notice, asked the Minister for Primary Indus­ sumer Affairs- tries- Cl) Have his inspectors been investi­ ( 1) Is he aware of the import on a gating Sunday flea markets in the metro­ regular basis of steak from New Zealand politan area? on a New Zealand aircraft landing at (2) Have the inspectors told some Brisbane Airport on Tuesday nights? operators that they would be allowed to (2) What is the name of the importer continue and threatened others with and where is the steak being used in closure? Queensland? (3) What check is made to ascertain ( 3) Is molasses, molasses meal or any whether the flea markets are operating for other derivative of molasses being imported charitable purposes or as a business enter­ into Queensland from South Africa? prise? Questions Upon Notice [7 DECEMBER 1976] Urban Passenger, &c., Bill 2129

( 4) Are flea markets required to obtain (2) Will he take steps to rectify this permits and what hours apply to their serious problem as soon as practicable? operations? Answer:- (5) Will he issue a clear statement so that charitable organisations are aware of (! and 2) This is not solely a matter for the department's attitude on these issues? the Main Roads Department. However, I will instruct my officers to have discussions with the Brisbane City Council to see if Answer:- remedial measures are possible. (1 to 5) In answering this matter I think it desirable to draw a distinction between the regular Sunday flea markets SUPERANNUATION ACTS occurring in certain metropolitan suburbs AMENDMENT BILL and the occasional flea markets run by service organisations or community groups INITIATION for charitable purposes. In the latter case a permit oan be granted under section 87 Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah of the Factories and Shops Act to enable -Premier): I move- the flea market to be held free from the "That the House will, at its present provisions of any trading hour order of the sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of State Industrial Commission. the Whole to consider introducing a Bill In the case of those flea markets that to amend the State Service Superannuation are held each and every Sunday at specific Act 1972-1975 and the Public Service locations under the auspices of Trash and Superannuation Act 1958-1975 each in Treasure (Queensland) Pty. Ltd., which is certain particulars." a business enterprise, the situation is some­ Motion agreed to. what different. Industrial inspectors of my Department of L3!bour Relations and Con­ sumer Affairs have visited the flea markets controlled by Trash and Treasure (Queens­ PETROLEUM ACT AMENDMENT BILL land) Pty. Ltd. and informed occupants of stalls who carry on regular business sell­ INITIATION ing new and/ or second-hand non-exempted Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister goods that they could not continue to sell for Mines and Energy): I move- such goods in stalls, being unregistered shops and contrary to the trading hours "That the House will, at its present orders of the State Industrial Commission. sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill Generally it is the intention of my to amend the Petroleum Act 1923-1972 department not to register stalls as shops in certain particulars." unless there is some regularity of occu­ Motion agreed to. pancy. Apart from charitable organisations which may occupy stalls at Trash and Treasure flea markets, no objection either is held to occasional occupancy of a stall BUSINESS NAMES ACT AMENDMENT by a householder who wishes to sell sur­ BILL plus household appliances and utensils. etc. However, the practice of a stall holder at INITIATION a Trash and Treasure flea market regularly Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ selling non-exempted goods, as a commer­ Minister for Justice and Attorney-General): cial operation, outside the prescribed trad­ I move- in,g hours cannot be permitted. "That the House will, at its present sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill to amend the Business Names Act 1962- 49. PREVENTION OF FLASH-FLOODING 1971 in certain particulars and for another ALONG IPSWICH ROAD, ANNERLEY purpose." Mr. Ahern for Mr. Doumany, pursuant to Motion agreed to. notice, asked the Minister for Local Govern­ ment and Main Roads- ( 1) In view of the inundation of foot­ URBAN PASSENGER SERVICE paths and various commercial and house­ PROPRIETORS ASSISTANCE ACT hold premises along Ipswich Road, par­ AMENDMENT BILL ticularly in Annerley Junction, during recent heavy storms, will he investigate the INITIATION substantial build-up of carriageway follow­ ing the covering up of the former tram Hon. K. W. HOOPER (Greenslopes­ tracks and the consequent failure of the Minister for Transport): I move- existing kerbing and gutters to cope with 'That the House will, at its present the run-off resulting from intense down­ sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of pours? the Whole to consider introducing a Bill 2130 Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill

to amend the Urban Passenger Service compared with our 15.1 per cent of the Proprietors Assistance Act 1975 in certain population for the six States. Provision has particulars." been made in the Commonwealth Local Motion agreed to. Government (Personal Income Tax Sharing) Act for a review of the arrangements before 30 June 1981 and, in particular, for a review of the percentage shares of the respec­ tive States to be carried out by the Com­ LOCAL GOVERNMENT monwealth Grants Commission. Under the SUPERANNUATION ACT Commonwealth's requirements, 30 per cent AMENDMENT BILL of the amount to which a State is entitled is to be allocated on a population basis, INITIATION which may also take into account relative Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast~Minister sizes, population densities and other factors for Local Government and Main Roads): I agreed between the Prime Minister and the move- Premier of the State, and the remaining "That the House will, at its present 70 per cent is to be distributed following sitting, resolve itself into a Committee the receipt of recommendations of a State of the Whole to consider introducing a Grants Commission on a general equalisation Bill to amend the Local Government basis. Superannuation Act 1964-1974 in a certain The Commonwealth legislation requires particular." the formation of State Grants Commissions Motion agreed to. to make recommendations relative to the distribution of the grant moneys within each State but permits the grants for 1976-77 and 1977-78 under interim arrangements. As honourable members will be aware, this LOCAL GOVERNMENT GRANTS State made use of interim arrangements for COMMISSION BILL the current year but proposes to have the INITIATION IN COMMITTEE new commission appointed to recommend the distribution from 1977-78 on. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) Under the provisions of the proposed legis­ lation a Local Government Grants Commis­ Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister sion will be established comprising four part­ for Industrial Development, Labour Relations time members nominated by the Minister, and Consumer Affairs) for Hon. W. E. being a chairman and three members with KNOX (Nundah-Deputy Premier and considerable experience in local government, Treasurer) (12.10 p.m.): I move- one full-time member nominated by the "That a Bill be introduced to establish Minister for Local Government, who is also a Local Government Grants Commission to be a person experienced in Local Govern­ to make recommendations concerning the ment affairs and finance, and the Under distribution of certain financial assistance Treasurer. There will be power for deputies to local authorities and with respect to to be appointed to act where a member other matters relating to the finances of is unable to attend meetings. The members local authorities; to hold inquiries and other than the Under Treasurer are to be make investigations in connexion there­ appointed by the Governor in Council by with; and for related purposes." notification published in the Gazette for a period of from one to three years as The purpose of the Bill is to provide stipulated in the terms of the appointment. legislative approval for the establishment of The Under Treasurer or the representative a State Local Government Grants Commis­ in his place is to be the deputy chairman. sion and to provide for the functioning of such commission. The main purpose of the commission, a~ Under the new personal income tax sharing already indicated, is to make recommenda­ scheme an amount of $140,000,000 was allo­ tions to the Minister concerning the distri­ cated by the Commonwealth Government for bution of moneys to be made available under local government purposes in 1976-77. This the Commonwealth legislation dealing with amount represented 1.52 per cent of the payments to the States of moneys under personal income tax collections for 1975-76 the tax-sharing arrangements for local and, under the arrangements for the con­ authorities. However, provision is also being tinuation of the tax-sharing scheme, local included for the commission to carry out authorities in Australia will in subsequent other investigations relating to the finances years receive the same percentage of the of local authorities as stipulated by the personal income tax collections by the Com­ Minister. monwealth in the preceding year. Members of the commission will be paid The initial distribution amongst States was remuneration, fees and allowances as made on the recommendation of the Com­ approved by the Governor in Council. Staff monwealth Grants Commission, Queensland will be provided within the Treasury Depart­ receiving 17.3 per cent of the total amount ment to assist the commission. Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill 2131

The commission or, if the chairman obtains additional revenue from levies, approves, one or more members of the charges, probate duties, customs and excise commission acting as a division of the com­ duty, royalties and so on. However, in mission will receive submissions and hear vi11tually every case, the Commonwealth evidence from local authorities and associa­ Government's revenue is based on a per­ tions of local authorities, such hearings being son's ability to pay or, as in the case of required to be held in public. sales tax, on his desire to buy a certain article knowing that a substantial part of The final recommendations of the commis­ its cost goes to the Government. Basically sion relative to the distribution of funds pro­ the Commonwealth's money is received vided by the Commonwealth, together with from citizens of the nation in accordance details of the allocation, are to be laid with their ability to pay. before the Legislative Assembly. The task being given to the commission In the same way the State Government is a major one. It will involve a detailed receives its income from the citizens of this study of the needs of the 131 local authori­ State basically in accordance with their ties within the State so as to ensure the ability to pay in the various taxation fields. distribution of the available funds in a man­ I know that many people would argue that ner which as far as possible recognises the they are forced to pay taxes that they do differing financial needs of the various not want to pay and in fields where they authorities. feel they should not have to pay so heavily, but I think it is true to say that the main The State Government is pleased that the force of State taxation is applied by the present Commonwealth Government has Government in fields where people have a decided that the distribution of the funds choice. I am referring now to income derived should be carried out by the State instead through the T.A.B. and other betting media, of by a Commonwealth instrumentality, as the liquor trade and the like. Certainly the was previously the case, and that it has been State Government gets taxation through possible to increase the amount available royalties, but the companies that mine the to a sum which will result in authorities product can no doubt sell it at a profit. receiving annual grants which represent very Experience has shown, particularly with coal­ welcome additions to ,their revenues. mining, that it is a very profitable enterprise for the major producers. We know that I know that local authorities will be pleased State taxes received through stamp duties and to see the establishment of a State Grants the like are for services rendered. The one Commission to which they will be able to that breaks away from that concept is pay­ make submissions which point out their par­ roll tax. I do not want to go into that now ticular needs with a view to obtaining special other than to say that pay-roll tax is not a assistance to enable them to provide the tax based on one's ability to pay. services and facilities enjoyed in more afflu­ ent areas without imposing undue burdens The State receives from the Common­ on their ratepayers. wealth a payment from the general taxation field by way of grants in various forms, and I commend the motion to the Committee. it receives a general grant as a percentage of personal income tax under the new Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) (12.17 p.m.): I federalism. hope that the proposed Bill will ensure that local authorities receive a better financial deal In the local government field we now from both the Commonwealth and State have the idea that if a person has not the Governments, because a review of the finan­ wherewithal to pay it is left to a particular cial structure of local authorities is long local authority to show its generosity by say­ overdue. In the many years that I have ing to that person, perhaps a pensioner, "You been a member of this Assembly, local can have a rebate on your rates and charges." authorities not only have been the poor rela­ This is welcome to the person who receives tions of public administration in this nation the concession, but there are so many others but also have gradually been put into an on low incomes who are not able to obtain impossible financial position. To compensate such a concession. Local authority budgets for this, they have had to juggle the revenue are so tight, and they must be balanced so they have managed to obtain. accurately, that it is very difficult for local authorities to be as generous as I feel they I think it is true to say that years ago a would like to be. person's wealth could be gauged fairly accurately by the amount of property he Although many local authorities grant con­ owned, and I think there was some justice cessions to pensioners and others on low in property being regarded as the basis of incomes, there are many other people who wealth. However, with the passing of the are finding their rate charges a burden. As years, property ownership is no longer an land values increase, higher rates have to be accurate indication of a person's ability to paid. A person will buy a block of land in a particular locality, and then because of pay. development within a mile of his area-not As we know, the Commonwealth Govern­ because he has developed his land and not ment obtains the bulk of its revenue from because he has received any extra amenities­ personal income tax and company tax, and it the value of his block increases and he is 2132 Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill

charged extra rates. That person does not The Bill provides for the setting up of a want to sell his land; he only wants to live Local Government Grants Commission. It is on it. Some people who are paying almost no interesting to note that in the 1974 policy income tax at all have to pay high rates. As speeches of 1the Liberal Party and, I think, time goes on, more and more local author­ the National Party, it was indicated that on ities will be requiring State and Common­ such a commission the councils would be wealth Government assistance to enable them represented. The Bill, however, provides to carry out their functions. From time to for local government representation by per­ time the State Government decides to pass sons with council experience. There is a on to local authorities greater responsibi­ great difference between a person who has lities. For example, only recently the Govern­ local government experience and one who ment, through its Noise Abatement Bill, has is either a sitting alderman or a sitting coun­ made the local authorities responsible for cillor. In .the Liberal Party's statements it the enforcement of certain provisions con­ indicated to the local authorities that they tained in that Bill. That means that local would have direct representation. The Min­ authorities will be called upon to increase ister should explain whether it is the intention their staff, particularly on the inspectorial and to appoint to the commission as local clerical side, and will be faced with added authority representatives either aldermen or costs. To meet them the local authorities councillors. will have to find additional finance. The Government also stated that the Grants Similarly, the Traffic Act throws more Commission would be totally independent of responsibilities on the shoulders of local the Government and of Government authorities, but the State Government has pressures. However, the commission is to not been generous and handed over to local be made up of six persons nominated not authorities additional money. The Brisbane by the combined local authorities-as is City Council had taken from it its profit­ being done under the Electricity Bill-but able electricity undertaking and it is now by the Minister. They will be nominated by faced with additional financial burdens. the Minister. The chairman and ,three other members are to have considerable local Mr. Moore: Why did it give away the authority experience, but they are to be part­ powerhouses? time members. I particularly draw attention to the words "nominated by the Minister"; Mr. HOUSTON: Because it was forced by the Minister does not indicate at all where this Government's policies to give them away. they are coming from. But I do not want to be side-tracked into There will be one full-time member-again an argument on that matter. The honour­ nominated by the Minister-with local able member for Windsor should show authority experience. That person will not greater interest in the welfare of local be an elected alderman. As it is a full-time authorities, which is what the Bill is all position, one could say that it is quite about. reasonable that that person ought not to be an elected alderm'an or councillor. How­ Local authorities are virtually compelled ever, I believe that at least some of the to provide and maintain public transport four should be sitting aldermen or councillors systems. For various reasons, people are so that the modern thinking of local authori­ using public transport to a lesser extent ties is kept up to date. After all, a co~­ than before and the local authorities are stituted body can have people of vast expen­ forced to strike a balance between service ence on it, but their experience could, and loss. In the over-all picture it is not within a period of five or six years, become service and profit but, as I say, service and completely out of date with realities. Condi­ loss, and that loss is borne by the ratepayers. tions would have changed since they were serving with an organisation and obtained Over the years quite a substantial sum has first-hand knowledge of its workings. One been provided to local authorities directly of the things that worry me about such from the Commonwealth Government, par­ organisations is that, where it might have ticularly the Federal Labor Government. This on it men with a great amount of experience, was criticised by some, who claimed that as time goes by they tend to become less local authorities should not receive tied grants. I believe, however, that if a Federal experienced in modern thinking. Government wishes to go beyond its normal Mr. Moore: That would apply to you in commitments rto local authorities and to pro­ Bulimba. vide additional financial assistance, there is nothing wrong with making massive sums Mr. HOUSTON: No. I am still the sitting available to them on a national scale for member. However, 10 years after I retire national projects, such as sewerage and other it would be futile for me to be telling the works. It is correct for a Federal Gov­ people what I would do. ernment to do this, provided it is not in­ Mr. Moore: I thought you were making fluenced by political considerations. Sim­ another point. ilarly, a State Government should provide local authorities with finance on a State­ Mr. HOUSTON: No. I am sure the hon­ wide basis for projects that will cater for the ourable member would agree with the point health and welfare of the people. I 'am making, which is that a person who Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976) Commission Bill 2133

is 'an active member of local government local authority on which he had the privilege knows the modern trends. He is with it, of serving for many years is one of the because he is at the meetings and everything most backward in the State and he knows else. However, five years after that he has it. He has very little knowledge of financial lost track and time would have beaten him matters so his local authority made less in his knowledge of new developments. progress than others. Mr. Moore: I thought you were referring Queensland is receiving 17.3 per cent of to their employment. the total amount while it has only 15.1 per cent of Australia's population. It could be Mr. HOUSTON: Not at all. I am t'alking argued that the basis is in our favour; but about people who are elected represent,atives. it is not, considering the differences in area Certainly, it would be wise to have as a of Queensland, Victoria and New South full-time member someone who had been an Wales and the fact that Queensland has 131 alderman or councillor, because I believe local authorities, some of which are as big "full time" should mean full time. The as Victoria if not bigger. The people who person appointed should not be devoting time live a long distance apart in those large to other fields. I believe, too, that he has local authority areas are entitled to good to be completely impartial, as should any communication by all modern means, in­ other member on the commission. When cluding road transport. reference is made to being impartial and The honourable member for Barron River away from political influence, surely that represents country local authorities. One means being away from the influence of of the things that shock me is that with a the State or Federal Governments and not Labor Government in power the local just the influence within an organisation. authorities cried out for millions of dollars I think it is a very wise move to have the but with a National or Liberal Government Under Treasurer on the commission. In my they are strangely silent and try to make view that is the connection-and the only excuses as to why they are not receiving connection we need-between the commission more money. I suggest that the honourable and the Government. member use his energies for the benefit of I repeat that I am questioning rather than his area. criticising. However, I do criticise the Com­ monwealth Government's role in this Mr. TENNI: I rise to a point of order. arrangement, and that is its contribution of The honourable member said that I was $140,000,000, which represents only 1.52 per representing a northern shire. I do not cent of personal income tax from the States. represent that shire. I did not stand for As I said at the start, local authorities more election to it. and more will be looking for other means of financing their activities, yet we find The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the that only 1.5 per cent of personal income Deputy Leader of the Opposition to accept tax-not all taxation, I stress-will be given that explanation. to the States. Of that $140,000,000, Queens­ landers will get $20,220,000 this year, but Mr. HOUSTON: I accept that he is not it was only $13,800,000 last year. a member of the shire council-even if he stood he could not win election to it-but Mr. Tenni: How did that compare with he has argued in this Chamber, as he should, the Labor Federal Government's percentage? for the area that he represents. Shame on him for not showing more interest in his Mr. HOUSTON: If we go back to the one local authority areas. before, the percentage would be slightly (Time expired.) more than that under the Labor Government. I am glad the honourable member raised Mr. M. D. HOOPER (Townsville West) that, because by the same token-- (12.37 p.m.): I believe that members of all Mr. Tenni: I am glad you admit it. political parties support the concept of additional moneys being provided to local government. I am sure that this legislation Mr. HOUSTON: I do admit it, but let us finish this story. We should not let the will have the support of all honourable mem­ bers. It is necessary to introduce it in matter rest with only half the story. The Queensland-and in all other States-be­ full story is that the Federal Government cause of the new federalism policy of the at th1at time gave amounts as special grants. Fraser/ Anthony Government, which decided The sum total of the argument is that that a percentage of the annual tax revenue under this scheme the local authorities will should be fed into the system of local gov­ .get less money and less value for money ernment as we know it in Australia. This than they did under the Labor Government, because under this scheme, although the is very desirable. local authorities are to receive $140,000,000, I noted during the Minister's remarks the value of that money will be much less that, while we have 15.1 per cent of the than the value of the money received under Australian population, our reimbursement the Federal Labor Government. The honour­ is of the order of 17.3 per cent of the total able member should not talk nonsense. The amount. No doubt this has resulted in some 2134 Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill criticism from the larger southern States gone. Today most landlords would be which are always keen to criticise Western lucky to get 7 per cent or 8 per cent on Australia, Tasmania and Queensland getting their investments. No longer do tenants a little more of the cake than they believe pay a fair contribution to rates. Local those States are entitled to. As the previous authorities therefore have to have some other Treasurer (Sir Gordon Chalk) expounded so avenue of income than rates. many times in this Chamber, Queensland has I freely admit that some initiative was a very good case to be granted an additional shown by the Whitlam Government several share of the cake-the total public purse­ years ago with the introduction of the Grants because of our sparseness, the maintenance Commission. Whilst saying that, I am also of our decentralisation programme and our going to criticise the Whitlam Government on lower income per head of population com­ the implementation of that scheme. It was pared with some of the southern States actually Prime Minister Lyons who originally which are more advanced. I refer to their set up the Commonwealth Grants Com­ mechanisation and larger wage structures. I mission in the 1930s. It was reactivated believe that this is a very good move by by the Whitlam Government, possibly as the Fraser Government and that it is more an act of conscience because that Govern­ than justified. It might not be as good as ment went a long way towards destroying we would like and perhaps the Minister will local authorities. In fact, it made most tell us more about it later. local authorities virtually bankrupt. It Like many other honourable members I increased the bond rate from about 6!- per have been involved in local government and cent to 11 per cent in its first year in office I know that more and more demands are and that caused utter chaos among local being made on local authorities for the pro­ authorities in the raising of loans. Natur­ vision of services and facilities. ally it meant a further increase in rates­ Mr. Tenni: Would you say that if the which takes me back again to the old story Deputy Leader of the Opposition had been of fewer people paying more in rates. There involved in local government he would have is now a guaranteed share of the tax cake known what he was talking about? for local authorities and I very much appre­ ciate that the Government is now taking Mr. M. D. HOOPER: That is a different action in this direction. subject. The honourable member might wish The Grants Commission set up by the Whit­ to expound it himself. lam Government was established rather hur­ More demands are being made on local riedly in an attempt to implement the policy government. These days, people are no of providing money to local authorities. longer satisfied with buggy tracks. They However, I have to say that, in the experience want kerb-to-kerb bitumen roads, drainage, of many people associated with local author­ water storage schemes, park facilities and ities in Queensland and other parts of Austra­ libraries. There is now the concept of social lia, the commission was in the nature of a welfare programmes becoming a responsi­ kangaroo court. Some local authorities spent bility of local government, which is so close considerable time and money in preparing to the people. Until very recently rates were strong submissions to the Grants Commission. the only revenue obtained by local authori­ The Townsville City Council, for instance, ties. Rates have become a very heavy burden spent thousand of dollars on the preparation on ratepayers because, while the population of a long and detailed submission. In fact, is increasing, the number who are paying we were told by the commission chairman, rates is decreasing. Whereas 10 years ago Mr. Justice Else Mitchell, that it was one home-ownership among the people of Aus­ of the best the commission had seen and tralia was about 70 per cent, it is now that we had taken too much trouble in closer to 60 per cent as fewer and fewer its preparation. Other local authorities that people are owning properties and ,therefore made submissions virtually on a sheet of paying rates. notepaper received far greater allocations It is an old fallacy that a tenant is a than the amount allotted to Townsville. It ratepayer, because anyone who owns or has became accepted that if a local authority anything to do with property these days knows was of the right political colour, it received that it does not produce a reasonable return. a much better deal. So high are the costs of construction and rates I hope that, with this Grants Commission, that the days of obtaining a return of 10 we will not see that sort of thing happen­ per cent from property investments are ing in Queensland. I must say that my Local Government Grants (7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill 2135

experience has been that, in the allocation If some local authorities receive only of grants, the Queensland Government has $100,000 or $200,000, they have to spend acted very fairly over the years. Where money it immediately on small schemes such as has been made available for, for instance, road repairs, resealing and kerbing and unemployment relief, even though it may channelling. It is not enough to build a have been only a lousy $5,000,000 or major highway or a sewerage-treatment plant. $10,000,000, the Department of the Co­ If the money was provided on a triennial ordinator-General, the Treasury and the Local basis and the local authorities were told, Government Department have together dis­ "You will get a minimum $500,000 this tributed it fairly. Very few complaints have year and, on the basis of natural escalation, been made over the years against the Gov­ next year it will probably be $700,000 and ernment's administration of previous grants. the following year $1,000,000", the moneys I should like the Minister to tell us later could be applied to a large-scale scheme and the criteria to be laid down for the allocation not just frittered away on park improvements and other minor jobs which, although they of grants. It is noted that 30 per cent keep a certain amount of unskilled labour of total allocations are to be distributed to local authorities on the basis of population, in employment, are of no real benefit to the the remaining 70 per cent to be distributed community. I have no criticism of the legis­ following the receipt of recommendations of lation at all. In fact, I strongly support it the State Grants Commission on a general and commend it to the Committee. equalisation basis. I do not know what is a "general equalisation basis"; that is a Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the rather grey area. When we used to ask Opposition) (12.47 p.m.): I believe this is the Commonwealth Grants Commission their a very important Bill. Its introduction should concept of an equalisation basis, we were guarantee the right of local authorities to never given a satisfactory answer. The needs have a direct say in the distribution by the of Townsville cannot be compared, for Federal Government of funds which it has example, with those of Charters Towers. received by way of income tax. When notice What is needed is an equalisation system by was given of the introduction of this Bill, means of which cities of differing size and I had a look at the submission of the Local varying deficiencies can be compared. So Government Association of Queensland to there is quite a grey area there as to what the then Treasurer, Sir Gordon Chalk, after is the equalisation basis. it was told about the federalism proposals. In fact the association said that it was not Mr. Houston: The Minister will tell us consulted at all by the coalition parties on in his reply. the federalism policies, and as a result it welcomed the opportunity given by Sir Gor­ Mr. M. D. HOOPER: I am quite sure don early this year to make a submission. he will. Apart from that, what advice will be offered to local authorities in the prepara­ The honourable member for Townsville tion of their submissions? I know that some West mentioned the Whitlam Government. local authorities which could not afford to I would like to read part of the association's have their own engineering staff complained submission which related to the Whitlam that they had to go to quite a deal of Government. It said- expense in bringing in outside consultants "At this point, it should be further to help in the preparation of >their sub­ stated that Queensland Local Authorities, missions. In many cases this was a complete with few exceptions, were able to enjoy waste of money because they supplied infor­ a degree of financial stability under the mation which was not required by the Whitlam Government which was never Grants Commission. When the Government previously available to them and it is the drafts the regulations, it should give some hope of Local Government in Queensland indication to the local authorities of what that under the Coalition Parties Policy is required in their submissions; in other financial assistance from the Common­ words, the criteria of the Local Government wealth Government will be based on Grants Grants Commission for the acceptance of Commission recommendations over the past submissions and the allocation of moneys. two years ..." Now that we have a guarantee of receiving It went on to say that it believed local money as a share of the tax cake, it should authorities were entitled to 3.5 per cent of be possible to have a triennial basis with individual personal income tax, that is, if minimum sums being made available .Yearly. grants are to be made on a percentage of 2136 Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill personal income tax only. The Local Gov­ understand either the accounting system used ernment Association said that Queensland in this State or some of the problems exper­ had problems because of the large areas ienced here. local authorities have to cover and pointed The submission then said- out as well that in its view, because some of them have large mining and other com­ "It has been the experience of Queens­ panies in their areas and company tax makes land Local Authorities that the special up a large proportion of the money they return of accounting and statistics required send to the central Government in Can­ by the Commonwealth Grants Commis­ berra, some percentage of company tax ought sion in addition to written submissions and to be coming back to them and not just a oral evidence, whilst necessary for the percentage of personal income tax. Grants Commission's exercise in dealing with some 800 plus Local Authorities, In its submission the association referred could be largely obviated in the func­ to the "Survey of Local Government tioning of a State Grants Commission Finances" compiled by Mr. R. D. Stuckey which would be familiar with Local in 1972. This report was made available to Authority problems wi.thin the State." the Queensland Government. The submis­ sion stated- In setting up the State Grants Commission, the Government has accepted that submis­ "However, it is important to recall that sion. Mr. Stuckey's recommendation was for 'The allocation of a specified proportion It went on to say- or percentage of all income tax collected ". . . we firmly believe that the Local from year to year and creation of a Government Association's Accounting Special Local Government Assistance Committee's Report and Recommendations Fund for distribution to Local Government on a system of Uniform Accounting in by the respective State Governments.' " Queensland Local Authorities, which has been favourably received by the Depart­ Later on in its submission the Local Govern­ ment of Local Government and the Aud­ ment Association expressed concern that itor-General's Department, should be im­ functions such as water supply and sewerage plemented without delay as this would had been specifically excluded from con­ ensure a major saving to Local Author­ sideration by the Grants Commission. As ities in both time and cost. .." this submission was made in about February of this year, I do not know whether that The local authorities also said that they is still so. I would like the Minister to wanted all their money without strings, com­ explain to us in his reply whether sewerage pletely untied, and I believe that the Federal and water supply have been specifically Government has legislated in that way. excluded from consideration. They asked for an explanation of the The submission also mentioned element Prime Minister's statement earlier in :the "B"-the equalisation or topping-up grants year as to "possible absorption of specific area-and I support the submission made purpose payments into general purpose funds, by the honourable member for Townsville either initially or at a later stage." I think West on ·that point. Some of the criteria that local authorities wanted to have stated ought to be spelt out. The Local Gov­ clearly whether specific purpose funds for, ernment Association has asked that, in the say, the R.E.D. scheme, the A.A.P. and functions of any State Grants Commission other schemes under which they received to be established, one of the prime criteria financial assistance in earlier years were to be considered in framing the machinery covered under a grant of this type or under by which such a commission might function the equalisation grant. should be the limiting to the absolute min­ imum of the time and cost to local auth­ A number of other sections of .the submis­ orities of the preparation of data, including sion from the Local Government Association accounts and statistics that it may require are worthy of consideration. I would expect for consideration. As I understand it, local that those responsible for the introduction authorities had a major cost problem with of the proposed Bill would have studied ·the Commonwealth Grants Commission be­ them, and I hope that at the second-reading cause that commission was not aware of stage the Minister might reply to these sub­ local authority problems even though missions so that the association will know it was handling all types of submis­ exactly where it stands and what it has sions from different States. It could not achieved by making them. Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill 2137

Mr. TENNI (Barron River) (12.53 p.m.): Mr. TENNI: Percy Tucker wouldn't; it I wish ,to say a few words on the introduction would be against his policies. He just of the proposed Bill, mainly because of my couldn't support a strong man like Max experience in local government but also Hooper. because of some comments made by the The honourable member for Townsville Deputy Leader of the Opposition. West spoke about sewerage schemes. Sewer­ First, I congratulate the former Federal age schemes are not completed overnight. If Labor Government for introducing the a council could look at funds for sewerage Grants Commission. However, I endorse the schemes on a triennial basis, it would make remarks of the Leader of the Opposition it much simpler to programme labour and relative to the costs involved and the tre­ equipment. mendous amount of work that had to be I hope that the Bill will make provision undertaken by officers of local authorities. for local authorities to be advised prior to ln the case of the Mareeba Shire Council, the setting of their budget just what amount the first estimate of the cost of making a of money they will be receiving. This was a submission-and this was for time alone­ very touchy point when the last budgets was about $5,000. I was pleased to see that were set by local authorities in Queensland. I when the sensible Government now in power hope that in his reply the Minister will advise in Canberra came to office and decided that us that the amount of money allocated to the grants should be made available through each council will be indicated prior to the the States, that loss to the taxpayers-or the setting of the next budgets. If that is done ratepayers, whichever honourable members councils will not have to do the guesswork prefer-was no longer incurred. The large they had to do when the socialist Labor number of huge forms that had to be filled Federal Government was in power. in are now a thing of the past. I congrau­ This is an excellent Bill and ,I hope that it late the Fraser Government on that because will be fully supported. it is very important that a large part of the Certainly I fully endorse it myself. money made available by way of grants should not be lost in administrative costs. I [Sitting suspended from 12.59 to 2.15 p.m.] am pleased that the proposed Bill will pre­ vent it and I compliment the Minister for Mr. AKERS (Pine Rivers) (2.15 p.m.): I introducing the provision. support the introduction of this Bill, which is the first step towards providing very The Deputy Leader of the Opposition was necessary assistance to local government in incorrect in stating that I represent the Australia. It follows on from the Federal Mareeba Shire. I am no longer a member Government's decision to introduce this year of the ?viareeba Shire Council; I retired at a new policy of federalism under which the the last election. As a member of State Par­ sum of $2,200,000 by way of tax-sharing liament I represent five shires. Those five moneys is provided direct to local government shires are very strong. The Deputy Leader in Queensland. The money was distributed of the Opposition said that Mareeba was a this year by an ad hoc committee, which, very backward shire. I will have him know that I will get that message to the people in the short time given to it to take action, in the Mareeba Shire, particularly the Labor did a reasonable job. The Federal Govern­ councillors. They will be interested to know ment's decision was a flow on from the pre­ that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition vious Federal Government's establishment said that theirs was the most backward of a Federal Grants Commission. That shire. Labor had control of that council for matter has been adequately covered by the the previous three years. honourable member for Townsville West. I a.gree with the comments made bv the I would ask the Minister whether local honourable member for Townsville West. I authorities will be forced by this measure to incur the tremendous cost of preparing sub­ like his views about the provision of a tri­ missions such as those required by the Fed­ ennial amount of money. I support the hon­ eral Grants Commission. The submission ourable member fully because, unlike the put forward in 1973 by the Pine Rivers Denuty Leader of the Opposition, I know the Shire Council cost the council approximately problems that will be confronting shires over $3,000. I realise that for an outlay of that the next two or three years. If a shire can size a return of $124,000 is a very good one; plan the expenditure of a certain amount of nevertheless the outlay was unnecessary in the first place. I hope that similar costs will money each year over a three-year term not be required under the provisions of the it can spend the money wisely and sensibly Bill. to the advantage of its ratepayers. I con­ One of the difficulties confronting local gratulate the honourable member for Towns­ government is the lack of continuity of fin­ ville West for brin.ging that forward. It is a ance. This matter, too, was covered by the point that I would not have thought of. I honourable member for Townsville West. certainly fully support him on that. I am My council has made many submissions to sure that every council in the State would both the State and the Federal Governments fully support his comments. on the continuity of sewerage funds under the backlog programme that was implemented Mr. Frawley: What about Percy Tucker? three or four years ago. The difficulty is 69 2138 Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill that contracts cannot be drawn up to coin­ far ahead. If one looks at the foregoing cide with the financial year. For example, table, it will be realised that it will not an annual $1,200,000 contract certainly be very long at all before we are borrowing cannot commence on 1 July of each year money simply to meet interest and redemp­ and finish on 30 June of the following year; tion payments. it must be able to continue into the next financial year. I support the Bill. I believe that the Federal Government has taken some action This new tax-sharing scheme does offer to'.' ards getting us to the state that we some guarantee of income, and in the minds should be heading for; but it is only a start, of local authorities there is the assumption and the assistance must accelerate to a much that they will receive a reasonable sum each greater extent over the next few years. year. However, as I shall show later, this sum is far too small to have any great Mr. GIBBS (Albert) (2.22 p.m.): I rise to effect. support this Bill put forward by the Treasurer, The loan indebtedness of the Pine Rivers but introduced today by the Honourable Shire Council came to my notice, by a Fred Campbell on his behalf. This is an strange coincidence, only within the last important step in the right direction. It is couple of days. I have produced a graph a start to getting local authorities back on from the figures supplied. It shows that the road again. It is true that the Grants from 1974-75 to 1975-76 the loan indebted­ Commission was started in the Whitlam era; ness of the Pine Rivers Shire Council rose but I wish to carry on from where the by 30 per cent. Although the shire is one of previous speaker left off about the cost that the fastest-growing shires in Queensland, had to be incurred in the preparation of its loan indebtedness is typical of that of all submissions to that commission. The Gold local government. Coast City Council prepared a very wide­ mnging submission, which cost many The graph shows that in 1948 the Pine thousands of dollars to produce, but got Rivers Shire Council's loan indebtedness nothing whatsoever from the Grants Com­ stood at approximately $32,000; by 1954, it mission. The Albert Shire received some had risen to $120,000; by 1958, to $945,000; money, but much less than it deserved. by 1967, it had risen, at a slow rate, to just under $2,000,000; by 1970, to Mr. Tenni: Do you mean the last Grants $4,064,000; and since then it has risen at a Commission or the one before that? dramatic rate, as is shown in the following table:- Mr. GIBBS: No, I am dealing with the Year Amount one during the Whitlam era, not the last $ Grants Con1n1is·sion. The last Grants Com­ 1971 4,584,000 mission, which was set up by the present 1972 5,647,000 Government, was established in a hurry, 1973 6,918,000 but I believe that the grants that have just been distributed were handled very well. 1974 8,495,000 Every council received a reasonable amount. 1975 11,341,000 However, I was referring specifically to the 30 June 1976 14,853,000 Grants Commission set up during the Whitlam era, which gave the Gold Coast City Council As I say, a 30 per cent increase occurred in nothing. the last 12 months, and the figures over all clearly indicate that the line on the graph I am not reflecting on those who served is almost vertical. on that Grants Commission. They were men of great integrity. However, they had to Over the same period, the interest and work within the framework laid down. When redemption payments rose from only $4,700 that set of rules was applied, the Gold in 1948 to $1,250,000 in 1976. That means Coast city and one of the coastal electorates that we are getting further and further to the north of Brisbane received nothing at behind. We have not begun to pay off the all. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. council's debts; we are just borrowing more money. Last year we 'borrowed $3,300,000, We were lucky that the State Government I think it was, from which we paid took the matter up. During the last two $2,500,000 in interest and redemption charges. years, it provided $5,000,000 by way of That means that at present 37 per cent grants-free grants-to local authorities. That of the rate and revenue income of the made a great difference. Many so-called shire council is being used to repay loans. grants ca~e from the Federal Government. I do not know whether such figures indicate One made to the Gold Coast City Council that councils are spending too much money. was labelled a grant for sewerage backlog. I continually get screams that not enough When we read the small print, we found money is being spent. Some action must be that it was repayable at the bond rate of taken very soon by the State and Federal interest and it attracted no subsidy. When Governments to make sure that the stage we are able to borrow money for sewerage is not reached where 100 per cent of a from the State Government, a 40 per cent council's income will be required for intere,st subsidy is given right across the board to and redemption payments. That time is not assist local ratepayers to meet the outlay. Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill 2139

As a result, the interest and redemption authority to pay and it should have money payments are not as great as they would to provide tourist roads, roads for strategic otherwise be. Contrast th•at with the money purposes and roads for industrial develop­ from the \Vhitlam Government, where the ment. Because of high interest and capital big print said "grant" and the small print costs in sewerage works, the burden does said "repayable". I argued this matter with not fall equally on the people in certain Mr. Uren, who was then the Minister con­ areas. This should be taken into account. trolling the Department of Urban and Regional Development. He said that in his Local government has been given the task interpretation it was a grant. At school I of town-planning and ,the whole community was taught that a grant is a gift; something is looking at development in other areas. As for nothing; something not repayable. In an example I refer to people in other parts those circumstances the Whitlam Government of Australia having so much to do with would have to be regarded as an Indian Fraser Island and its future. This relates, giver. also, to beaches, estuaries and lakes in our coastal shires. Beaches must be protected We have now reached the stage where, and local authorities do not have the cap­ through the State Government, there will be acity to handle this work. I should like to a sharing of taxation. Today we are setting know how such major undertakings can be up our own Grants Commission so that the financed. Local authorities in coastal areas money can be distributed on an even basis also have the expense of maintaining beach according to need. This would be some of patrols as a safety measure for the public. the best news that local authorities have Those who make use of ,these services come had. The Local Government Association of not only from the area concerned but from Queensland will be very happy when this Bill other places such as Brisbane, and also from becomes law. This year we had to hurriedly interstate and overseas. establish a committee to distribute the money and in the short time available it has done In some areas the cost of providing sport­ well with that money. I hope .that the ing facilities is being loaded onto local auth­ dishing out of $5,000,000 by the State will orities and welfare services are also becom­ be a continuing process over a long period. ing a responsibility of local government. The demands are almost endless. Welfare services I understand that the Grants Commission are a by-product of selfishness and develop­ will not handle that side of it but it could ment and, if we do not take a very hard look if ever the time arrives. at this field, we will be saddling ourselves I congratulate the Minister and his depart­ with somethin.g that may create problems in ment on bringing this legislation forward. It welfare itself. is one of the greatest things that have hap­ That which has application to the other pened 1o local authorities in Queensland. I arm of local authority financing is the valua­ commend everybody who has had anything tion system and the rates that flow from it. to do with it. Under this system the burden does not alwavs fall on those best able to bear it. There are Mr. SIMPSON (Cooroora) (2.27 p.m.): manv problems in the present system. It is I commend the Minister on bringing in this not without advanta.ges over some systems Bill to set up a Local Government Grants that do not provide an incentive for people Commission. Finance is a problem in all to develop undeveloped land. However. levels of government. At the moment, the under the present system of obtaining finance Federal Government collects the 1axes, uses from land valuations there is a need for what it wants for itself and passes some greater emphasis to be placed on other forms back to the States. Now, for the first time, of financing, such as the one now under dis­ a set percentage will be made available for cussion. to ease the burden on ratepayers who distribution by the State Governments to are pensioners or people on fixed incomes local government. who have moved in their later years to areas The Grants Commission will distribute 70 that have subsequently developed and in per cent of the funds on a general equalisa­ which, because land values have been forced tion basis. It is incredible that only 1.52 up, rates also have been increased. Some per cent of personal income tax is coming provision should be made to overcome this back to local government. I would like to problem. know where the o1her 98.48 per cent goes. I believe that any basis of making alloca­ tions fairly between shires will be the sub­ The Local Government Grants Commis­ ject of ar.gument. In this area I hope that sion will study submissions from local auth­ the commission considers not onlv the argu­ orities to set up a basis on which, I hope, ments presented to it but the reality of the they will share fairly in the available fin­ situation. In other words, some local author­ ance. It is important that local government ities do not have the ability or the financial be able to put its case clearly without incurr­ capacity to present cases as well as other ing heavy costs as with the Department of local authorities. This is a point that the Urban and Regional Development. commission will have to consider. We need a basis on which local govern­ There will also be a need for flexibility in ment can finance roads. In many areas the the basis of funding so that consideration is number of people who use the roads is dis­ .given to the reality of trends in growth proportionate to the ability of the local areas. The commission will need to anticipate 2140 Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill

trends that will embarrass local authorities results. It may also investigate various in rapidly growing areas such as the one that financial aspects of the operations of local I represent on the Sunshine Coast. It has government and receive submissions. I think been found that statistics often Jag behind the it is very praiseworthy that these meetings facts in the services that local authorities must be held in public. The time is long have to provide, and for this reason local overdue for local government to have finance authorities are often embarrassed in funding provided on a regular basis. Our system of and providing services quickly. government is more or less a pyramid It is also important that the commission system from the Commonwealth through to quickly finds some stable means of evaluating the States and then to local government, the needs of various local authorities so that and it is very important that local govern­ they can look forward in the future to a ment should receive an equitable share of basis of funding ·that is fairly reliable and community resources. understandable. That means that the com­ I think it is particularly appropriate that mission must explain the basis on which it this Government comprises a large number apportions the 70 per cent of monev avail­ of members who have had local govern­ able so that those concerned understand ment experience and who have risen through how it is worked out. Of the money to be the system from local government to State allocated to local authorities, 30 per cent is Government. I think this shows our to be made available on the basis of popula­ consideration and care that local gov­ tion and the remaining 70 per cent on evalua­ ernment throughout the State should tions made by the Grants Commission. prosper. I think the important thing Moreover, a small reserve should be set about local government is that it is close aside for adjustments to be made in times to the community, and the members of of ~isast~r _suc:h as flood, fire or drought. local authorities can perhaps be said to be I thmk tt ts Important that we have this very close to the feelings and needs of bit of elbow room in which to manoeuvre their communities. As local government is so that we can overcome anomalies which responsible for providing the basic facilities are sure to need correcting at the end of required by the community such as water, the financial year. I commend the Minister street lighting, and so on, it is very import­ on his introduction of the Bill. ant that it should have adequate finance. It is all the more reason why local author­ ities should receive a fair share of total Mr. BOURKE (Lockyer) (2.35 p.m.): I community finance. rise to support this Bill providing for the establishment of a Local Government Grants It is obvious that much more of our tax Commission. I see this as the final link in dollar must be returned to local government the chain of Government initiative to pro­ for spending on the needs of the people vide local government with a percentage in the area from which the tax comes. I of income tax on a national basis. At last consider that local government is closer to we see local government getting access to the people than is any other type of govern­ a growth tax on a regular basis. It is ment. We have a problem in Toowoomba obvious to all people in the community that in that large numbers of old and retired there are limits to the amount of money people are residing there, and those people that local government can obtain through cannot fairly be expected to provide more rates. Rates are already at an all-time in the form of rates. Toowoomba also has the high, and it is obvious from all the trouble problem that it is a large inland city and over valuations that rating on the basis of has to provide water for decentralised com­ unimproved values as determined by the munities and industry. We look forward to Valuer-General is not an equitable method relief from these problems through the of obtaining local government finance. It Grants Commission. is a particular problem in many local gov­ ernment areas with large percentages of Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister old and retired people. There should be strict for Industrial Development, Labour Relations limits as to how much these people should and Consumer Affairs) for Hon. W. E. KNOX be expected to contribute. Another prob­ (Nundah-Deputy Premier and Treasurer) lem with local government is that its already (2.39 p.m.), in reply: On behalf of the high rate of loan indebtedness is increasing Deputy Premier and Treasurer. I thank all the time, and it has been affected par­ honourable members for the spirit in which ticularly by high interest rates. This has they entered this debate. The Bill been obvious throughout the entire commun­ is certainly a positive and progressive ity. We have had the appearance of various move, and I feel quite sure that it groups proposing various schemes for low­ will go a long way towards relieving the interest finance to local government. I do not burdens on local government which have think the appearance of these groups is been mentioned by so many members. a healthy sign in the community. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition I note with approval that the commission gave a very good analysis of the manner may provide for detailed studies of the in which taxes and other levies are collected financial needs of local government through­ at both the State and Federal level, and out the State. I think this provision is long he pointed out the restricted capacity of overdue. and I look forward to seeing the local authorities to raise the revenue needed Local Government Grants [7 DECEMBER 1976] Commission Bill 2141

to meet the needs of modern-day communi­ instituted by the commission almost forth­ ties. I think this is acknowledged by the with. The Government of Queensland will setting up of this Local Government Grants be presenting a strong case to retain ·this Commission. State's apparent advantage, but it goes with­ The Deputy Leader of the Opposition ques­ out saying, of course, that it will be a hard tioned the composition of the commission. I fight. would just like to assure him that he need The honourable member for Townsvil!e have no fear about its composition. It has to West, who, like so many honourable members be recognised that the commission will be a who have taken part in the debate, is an deliberative body and will be required to experienced practitioner in the field of local analyse submissions put forward by local government, made two points. The first authorities. It would be rather fatal to the related to the basis of assessment. The dispassionate functioning of the commission assessment will be made by the commission if members considered that they were dele­ on a basis that has the object of ensuring gates from a particular organisation. If that, as far as is practicable, each local persons were nominated directly by local authority is able to function by reasonable authorities, they would be seen, as I have effort at a standard not appreciably below indicated, as representing a particular area the standards of other local authorities in of local government, and decisions could be the State, being a basis that takes account of influenced by persuasive representatives. differences in the capacity of local authorities to raise revenue and differences in the Mr. Houston: I was only questioning what amounts required to be expended by local your leader said at the 1974 election; that is authorities in the performance of their all. function-in other words, an assessment of the capacity of each authority to raise rev­ Mr. CAMPBELL: My leader promised enue and the relative cost to each in provid­ this, and this is a fulfilment of the promise. ing the services. The commission will be I cannot recollect whether my leader said setting out a standardised return form, and specifically that they would be members it will require data that will give full infor­ elected by a particular local authority or mation needed to make the assessment. members experienced in the realm of local government. As to timing-it is expected that the commission will be making its decisions in Mr. Houston: No. We keep a record of time for its recommendations to be made what you fellows say; we have to. known before the respective councils finalise Mr. CAMPBELL: I am not speaking of their budgets. what my then leader said; he is no longer The Leader of the Opposition asked with us. whether sewerage and water services were eliminated from the calculation, and the Mr. Houston: You are going to repudiate answer is "yes". Grants are restricted to an it now? assessment of local authority functions that Mr. CAMPBELL: I will never repudiate are common throughout the nation. what is said by anybody who speaks with Mr. Burns: Well, we have been robbed good will. Furthermore, the persons nomin­ then. ated by the Minister will be independent and unbiased. The honourable gentleman Mr. CAMPBELL: No, no-one will be rob­ can depend on that. The Minister has every bed under this measure. In the southern reason to want decisions to be unbiased and States the responsibility for sewerage and to be accepted by all local authorities. water is a function of boards outside the The third reason is that grants will be local authority. As to the question about determined on statistical data that will show, tied grants-the grants will not be tied. firstly, the relative capacity of the local Local authorities will be free to spend in any authority to raise revenue and, secondly, the way they choose. If it is a local authority's relative cost of the provision of services by policy to do so, it may reduce rates. that local authority. The honourable member for Barren The honourable member referred also River emphasised the great wealth of prac­ to the 17.3 per cent distribution to Queens­ tical experience he gained as a member of land in comparison with its 15.1 per cent a local authority. He mentioned, as did of total population and said that this State two or three other members, the cost of should receive more because of its area. preparing data for the previous inquiry. That is not a bad point to make in a debate. When the forms are made available, I think I think he would be aware that that matter local authorities will find that they will not was determined by the Commonwealth need to go to such great lengths in provid­ Grants Commission. Naturally, some of the ing the necessary information. States have complained that Queensland The honourable member for Pine Rivers receives too much--or, rather, that their spoke in the same vein. The data required share is not enough-and have asked for a must be and will be just sufficient to give review of the distribution for next year. Their the commission the information it will need request has been acceded to by the Common­ to make its assessment. I think it will be wealth Government and a review will be generally appreciated by members that the 2142 aJ.City of Brisbane Act and [7 DECEMBER 1976] Another Act Amendment Bill

job we are requiring it to do could not be Section 38 of the City of Brisbane Act done without that information. The hon- provides that, after a resolution has been . ourable member spoke at length about the made by the council passing an ordinance, problems of his shire's increasing loan in­ a copy of the ordinance has to be deposited debtedness and, in consequence, the reduc­ at the city hall and be there open to ing amount available for capital works. Loan inspection. indebtedness is an indication of the volume Similarly, the City of Brisbane Town Plan­ of capital works carried out in the area at ning Act provides for town-planning amend­ the discretion of the local authority. As ments initiated by the council to be placed honourable members are aware, the State on exhibition at the city hall. has a very extensive subsidy scheme. I As honourable members are no doubt believe that we lead Australia in this field. aware, the staff of most departments of the That scheme significantly reduces the size of council recently transferred from offices in the debt and servicing charges. For the city hall to the Brisbane Administration example, sewerage and water schemes are Centre adjoining the city hall. subsidised by the State to the extent of 40 per cent. In other words, the debt of the I ,am advised that the only staff now authority is 40 per cent less because of the located in the city hall consist of the town State's subsidy. clerk and deputy town clerk and supporting staff for those officers, together with sup­ The honourable member for Albert porting staff for the Lord Mayor and other indicated, as did others, the problems con­ council aldermen whose offices will remain fronting the glamorous part of Queensland in the city hall. -the Gold Coast. He pointed out that even though it is a glamorous area it has its The council has accordingly requested that problems. both Acts be amended to enable the exhibi­ tion of material of the type I have mentioned, I was a little intrigued at the opening at a public office in a place other than the remarks of the honourable member for city hall. It states that it is not its desire Cooroora. He seemed to indicate that the to have the staff who will remain at the 1.52 per cent was rather paltry, because he city hall responsible for maintaining the asked where the 98.48 per cent went. I public exhibition of the material in question. think it rolls pretty well round the nation. He, too, cited the general problems of his The council adds that there could be area, as did the honourable member for problems in other areas. for example, if Lockyer, who has had experience as a staff other than appointed cashiers were to local council member. He indicated the be responsible for the collection of moneys wide experience one gets at that level be­ in relation to the sale of material which is cause of being close to the people. He available for purchase in association with illustrated the problems of a council having material placed on public exhibition. a fairly large number of retired people The Bill makes provision for appropriate living in its area. amendments of the City of Brisbane Act I thank honourable members for their and the Citv of Brisbane Town Planning contributions. Act to permit the material I have referred Motion (Mr. Campbell) agreed to. to to be open for inspection at a prescribed place, such place being the public office Resolution reported. of the council at the city hall or such FIRST READING other place as the council may from time to time nominate within 1 km of the city hall Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. and which in the opinion of the Minister Campbell, read a first time. is centrally and conveniently situated. The Bill gives effect to the wishes of the council CITY OF BRISBANE ACT AND in this matter. I commend the Bill to the ANOTHER ACT AMENDMENT BILL Committee. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) Opposition) (2.55 p.m.): Although the Bill refers to only one section of the Act I Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast-Minister wish to speak about the Act itself and the for Local Government and Main Roads) problems that people are having in trying to (2.52 p.m.): I move- follow it because of its Jack of consolidation. "That a Bill be introduced to amend The Act was introduced in 1964 and I think the City of Brisbane Act 1924-'1974 and it has been amended once each year since the City of Brisbane Town Planning Act then. It is becoming difficult to read it or 1964-1975 each in certain particulars." even to collate all the amendments. This is a short measure the purpose of T think you will agree with me, Mr. which is to enable the Brisbane City Council Miller, that town-planning legislation affects to exhibit at a place other than the city hall the ordinary person in his home and in his copies of ordinances, town~planning applica­ home environment and he is concerned about tions and other documents which by law it. Public participation should be the aim of are required to be placed on public exhibition. the Government-indeed, of everyone who is City of Brisbane, &c., Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Albert Shire, &c., Bill 2143

interested in planning-so it is most import­ Mr. HINZE: It is available for purchase. ant that the ordinances, the Act itself and the amendments to it be readily available. I Mr. Burns: I'll mention your name. suppose that could be said about much of Mr. HINZE: The honourable member the legis!ation that is continually amended; ?1ight get a free copy if he does, particularly but I believe that it is important at this stage If he says that he is the Leader of the that we make it very clear that some of the Opposition, that be comes from Hemmant very important sections should be consoli­ and that he has all the problems under the dated. Sections ~0, 20A, 20B, 20C, 20D, 21, sun at Tingalpa. Then he will probably aet 22 and 22A, which deal with objections and one for nothing. It might even be a Chr~t­ appeals-and that is what this is all about· mas box. We might even gift-wrap it for making ordinances available to the people s; him. they can understand what has happened­ are the sections that have been amended on a The third point he raised related to the number of occasions. They are the sections amendment we propose to provide for the that are difficult to gather together. One of Act being displayed in an area adjacent to the most important tasks we can undertake the city hall. I thank the Leader of the when introducing machinery measures for an Opposition for his contribution. Act such as this, which affects the home Motion (Mr. Hinze) agreed to. lif~ and ~omes of .so many people, is to con­ solidate It as qmckly as possible so that Resolution reported. people can readily make their opinions known. FIRST READING We are talking about making the ordin­ Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. ances available in one other place than the Hinze, read a first time. ~it¥ h~ll. I continue to make the point that It 1s time for that provision to be changed and for the Act and ordinances to be dis­ ALBERT SHIRE COUNCIL BUDGET played in every ward office and in all of the ADJUSTMENT BILL pl.aces where people can make some contact with the council. The idea of changing the SECOND READING Act to pa~e the ordinances displayed in the Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast-Minister ne~ b~ul?mg at the back of the city hall, whdst It IS a help, is a denial of the rioht of for Local Government and Main Roads) the average citizen to get to them. Today (3.1 p.m.): I move- people do their shopping in the suburbs. "That the Bill be now read a second They gC: to the shopping centres at Wynnum, time." Cherms1de, Mt. Gravatt or other similar I gave a summary of the more important centres. Why should the ordinances be provisions of this Bill at the introductory availa]:Jle only in the heart of the city at stage. As I indicated then, the intention of th~ ~1ty hall or at the new administrative the Bill is to adjust a rating anomaly that bmldmg at the back of the city hall? It has occurred in the Shire of Albert this is my belief that the Act should have been financial year in respect of the levy of a amende~ to ma~e provision for displaying separate rate on the unimproved value of the ordmances m the major areas that I land in a benefited area defined in respect have referred to-or at least in the office of each ward alderman. of flood-mitigation works in the Woongoolba area of the shire. We have no opposition to the proposal When framing and adopting its budget for before the Committee. the current year, the council made and levied the separate rate on the basis of Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast-Minister existing rateable values of lands in the bene­ for Local <;Jovernment and Main Roads) fited area. It did not have regard to the (2.57 p.m.), m reply: I thank the Leader of fact that, earlier in the year, the rateable the Opposition for his contribution. I wish values of much of the land had been sub­ to answer v_ery briefly the three points he has stantially reduced by the Land Court fol­ made. Takmg the last one first-the display lowing the lodgment of appeals by land­ of the or:finances ~t various centres through­ owners. The reduction in valuations made out. the City-I believe that his proposal is a logical one, but the cost involved has to be by the Land Court were substantial and the result is that there has been a marked change t~ken into. account. The only problem with h!s suggestion is that of the cost involved. in the incidence of the separate rate I have mentioned. In some cases, landowners who The City of Brisbane Town Planning receive less benefit from the flood-mitigation Act has been consolidated up to 1 January works have to pay higher rates than owners 1976 and is now available for purchase at the whose lands are substantially benefited by Government Printing Office. the works. Mr. Burns: Now? The Albert Shire Council and the rate­ payers affected are concerned and the coun­ Mr. IDNZE: It is available. cil desires that the anomalous position which has arisen be corrected. The purpose Mr. Burns: It was not available last week. of the Bill is to enable the council to frame 2144 Albert Shire Council [7 DECEMBER 1976] Budget Adjustment Bill and adopt a new budget, create a new fund Many councils have found themselves in and make and levy a new separate rate for a rather awkward financial position when, the balance of the financial year to defray after striking a budget, something unfore­ the cost of the works in question. When seen has occurred. In such cases they have these actions have been effected, the present had to carry that load until they strike their budget and fund and the present separate next budget, usually in Augu&t of the fol­ rate that has been levied will cease to have lowing year. During my time in local gov­ force and effect. Separate rates already ernment I had experience of unforeseen paid by landowners this year in respect of expenditure cropping up which had to be the Woongoolba drainage scheme will be carried until we could recoup ourselves in refunded and rates unpaid will not be col­ the following budget. lectable by the local authority. I have never been able to find out why The Bill also makes certain amendments the Albert Shire Council was not aware when to the provisions of the Local Government it struck its budget, which would have been Act relating to the making and levying of in August, that earlier in the year valuations separate rates for particular functions of had been substantially reduced. The honour­ local government. able member for Albert endeavoured to ex­ The amendments in question will clarify plain the situation at the introductory stage a local authority's powers in this behalf and and I know that he played an important part therefore will be of benefit to local authori­ in having the Minister bring down the Bill ties generally. that is now before the House. However, I say again, as I said at the introductory Mr. MARGINSON (Wolston) (3.3 p.m.): stage, there has been some negligence some­ When one stops to contemplate the purpose where and I have been unable to find out of this Bill, one must give consideration to how the substantial reductions in valuations the anomalies that exist in valuation and were overlooked. rating in our State. Like many other honour­ All in all, I agree with what the Bill able members I have advocated in this House provides. It appears that there is an the need for some system of collecting anomaly and that some people are being revenue for local authorities other ,than the unjustly treated by having to pay benefited present unimproved value system. Because area rates although they receive little benefit, of the rating system many people are finding whilst others who are receiving substantial it most difficult to remain in the homes that benefits are not being required to pay for they own. I hope that it will not be long them to the same extent. If the Minister before we have a more just system for the finds that other local authorities are getting people of Queensland. into the same trouble through no fault of Mr. Hinze: What would you recommend? their own, I hope that he will condescend to bring down a Bill to help them. Mr. MARGINSON: For a long time I have had in mind the rental value of the Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast-Minis­ premises. If the Minister would like me to ter for Local Government and Main Roads) delve into it further-I think there is a (3.8 p.m.), in reply: I thank the honourable great anomaly when a large building con­ member for Wohton for his contribution. taining as many as 50 home units and the From his many years of experience in local home of the pensioner next door are rated government as a member of the Ipswich on the same unimproved value of land. This City Council, he would be expected to have Bill might be of some help to us. There the knowledge to enable him to make such are other ways. The present system is not a contribution. a levy on a person's ability to pay as is The Albert Shire Council is one of those the case with most other taxes. It is a levy local authorities that have gone out of their on the capital value of the land. way to help industry. In this case, the sugar We have before us a Bill that is unique industry has been helped by the flood miti­ in this State. Under the Local Government gation scheme and various other schemes in Act, when a council strikes a budget for the areas of Behm's Creek, Bremerhaven and the next 12 months, that is it; it cannot be Pimpama, by means of which it has been changed. possible to more than double production. This is an area of which all concerned with Mr. Hinze: You have to admit that any­ the sugar industry are now very proud. The thing I say in this House is unique. council made a contribution to the scheme and the farmers did likewise. We in Queens­ Mr. MARGINSON: I have to admit, too, land are proud of the way in which primary that the Bill has some effect on the Minis­ industries, including the sugar industry, con­ ter's area as well as the electorate of Albert. tribute to the State's economy by the pro­ I know that, as chairman of that shire, rthe duction of exportable surpluses. The sugar Minister carried out his duties with great industry is one of our major primary distinction. However, at the same time it is industries, and in this little corner of Queens­ unique ~o have brought down in the House a land we have the Rocky Point Sugar Mill, Bill that contradicts the Local Government which I think is the only privately owned Act. mill in Queensland. Its sugar production Nursing Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976) Nursing Bill 2145 had dropped to a fairly low level, but because indicated that a number of other sections of the flood mitigation work under.taken by required revision to update provisions and the council and contributions from farmers to incorporate changes recently adopted in in the area its production has now risen. registration Acts for other professions. It Problems arose after appeals against valua­ was therefore considered expedient to repeal tions in the area had been successful and the Nurses Act of 1964 and to introduce new rates were imposed based on the old valua­ legislation for the registration and enrolment tions. This caused anomalies and the prob­ of nurses and the reguloation of the practice lem was brought to ·the attention of Hugh of nursing. Muntz, the chairman of the council, who is well known to everybody in this Chamber Honourable members will find on perusal as a very honest and capable administrator. of the Bill that many sections are unchanged He would not make mistakes, and if any were or changed only in the terminology used. made they would, of course, be of a very Some changes, however, are worthy of par­ minor nature. When one has been in local ticular note. government as long as Hugh Muntz one The Nurses Board of Queensland will be does not make mistakes. I think he is one reconstituted as the Nurses Registration of .the longest-serving members of local gov­ Board of QueensJ,and and will have a reduced ernment and is very well known and respected membership of seven as from the eX1piration throughout the State, so I do not suggest that of the term of office of the present nine any mistakes of a serious nature have been members. made. I consider it desirable that the activities The honourable member for Wolston re­ of a registration board should be guided by ferred to rating in general, and we do hear members of the profession it represents. The arguments put forward relating to the im­ Bill therefore provides that the chairman of provement of our present rating system. the board shall be a registered nurse, and They, of course, will be looked at as that of the seven board members, at least time goes on. Frankly, I believe there is five shall be registered nurses. quite a lot wrong with our system of valua­ tion but years of experience have shown that Also in my introductory remarks to the these things have to be attended to by way Nursing Studies Bill, I mentioned that some of amendments to the Act. I commend time would elapse before staff could be the honourable member for Wolston, who recruited for the Board of Nursing Studies led for the Opposition, and I commend the and it could assume its role in nursing Bill to the House. education in Queensland. An appointed day is provided for on which educational respon­ Motion (Mr. Hinze) agreed to. sibility will pass from the Nurses Registration Board of Queensland to the Board of Nursing CoMMITTEE Studies. Whilst the Nurses Act of 1964 is (Mr. Miller, Hhaca, in the chair) to be repealed, provision is made in this Bill for the Nurses Registration Board, until Clauses 1 to 13, both inclusive, as read, the appointed day, to perform the functions agreed to. and exercise the powers conferred upon it by the repealed Act with regard to nurse Bill reported, without amendment. training. Registration and enrolment procedures of NURSING BILL previous legislation have been revised. Pro­ vision is made for the keeping of a register lNITIATION IN CoMMITTEE of registered nurses and a roll of enrolled nurses. The previous term "nursing aide" (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) has been replaced by "enrolled nurse" follow­ Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Min­ ing representations from all sections of the ister for Health) (3.14 p.m.): I move- nursing profession. The term "aide" could not be regarded as describing adequately this "That a Bill be introduced relating to trained member of the health team and the qualifications and registration of nurses the vital role she plays in our hospitals. and enrolment of certain other persons connected with the nursing profession, the Qualifications for registration of registered regulation of the practice of nursing and nurses are categorised into several groups­ for related purposes." graduates from schools of nursing accredited by the Board of Nursing Studies; graduates In my opening speech at the introductory from a training school in Queensland under stage of the Nursing Studies Bill I outlined the Nurses Act of 1964; interstate and over­ to honourable members the role piayed over seas qualifications and post-graduate qualifica­ many years by the Nurses Board of Queens­ tions. Interstate or overseas qualifications land in the training of nurses in this State. have the normal requirements of a standard As a result of the decision taken to make equal to or higher than Queensland qualifica­ nursing education the responsibility of a tions or a requirement that the applicant Board of Nursing Education, amendment of undergo additional training and examination. various sections of the Nurses Act of 1964 Other procedures for registration are simiJ.ar became necessary. A review of the Act to registration Acts for other professions. 2146 Nursing Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Nursing Bill

The qualifications for enrolment of enrolled The Minister has said that the title "nursing nurses are similarly catered for-possession aide" is to be changed to "enrolled nurse". of a certificate from an accredited school of I agree with him as to the importance that nursing; completion of training prescribed should be attached to the work of nursing under the Nurses Act of 1964; completion aides. If the new designation gives them of a course of satisfactory training elsewhere greater status, it will be all to the good. than in Queensland or, if required, completion I think they have to be recognised as nurses. of additional training and examination. Pro­ I agree that the term "nursing aide" does vision is also made in enrolment procedures not indicate full appreciation of the work for those persons who over a number of those girls do. I have personally seen the years have acquired considerable experience hard work that they do in hospitals. My without undertaking formal training. As in own daughter was a nursing aide for some other Acts, ,provision is made to gmnt regis­ time, and I know the work she put into her tration for a limited period to persons who job. The new provision is a very desirable come to Queensland for post-graduate study one. or lecturing purposes. Apparently the Bill is going to ensure that Other provisions relative to disciplinary all categories of nurses are covered follow­ action, appeal procedures, removal of name ing the change-over from the present nurse­ from register and payment of annual regis­ training programme. The Minister has set tration and licence fees are similar to those out the different categories of nurses that contained in legislation recently considered will be registered. in this Chamber for registration of other I am pleased to see that the Minister is professional groups. giving due recognition to those nurses who Miscellaneous provisions of the Act are have spent many years of their life in generally as in previous legislation, except nursing without having undertaken the for­ that penalty provisions have been increased mal training required. Many women in their to realistic levels. By-law-making provisions middle years who have given tremendous have been revised to meet the requirements service to hospitals will be grateful to the of the functions now proposed for the board. Minister for the recognition he is giving This Bill together with the Nursing Studies them. Bill already introduced form an important The Bill is not an extensive one. I package to upgrade legislation on education think we can assure the Minister that he and registration of nurses in Queensland. has the support of the Opposition. We will I pay tribute to the tremendously important be looking forward to studying the specific role played by Dr. Urquhart, who has been terms of the Bill when it is printed. chairman of the Nurses Registration Board for many years, and I also pay tribute to Mr. SIMPSON (Cooroora) (3.24 p.m.): I others who have played important roles in commend the Minister for introducing this the nursing profession. Bill relating to the qualifications and reg­ I commend the motion to the Committee. istration of nurses in Queensland. Over the centuries members of the nursing profession, Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (3.20 p.m.): The mainly women, have indicated their ability to Opposition welcomes this Bill. To a degree care for others, particularly in war-time and it complements the Nursing Studies Bill in the pioneering days when people were recently introduced by the Minister. It is dependent on persons other than trained more or less consequential legislation, but doctors. At all times their dedication has it contains important provisions. As the been obvious. Minister pointed out, it covers the period of transition pending the implementation of The nursing profession is becoming more the Nursing Studies Bill. There will be organised than ever before, and it is only registration of nurses in the various categor­ logical that the obtaining of qualifications ies outlined by the Minister. and the registration of nurses should be car­ One of the important provisions of the ried out on a uniform basis. It is interest­ Bill is that covering representation of nurses ing to note that the nursing profession is on the registration board, inasmuch as the the one above all others in which its mem­ Minister stated that, of the board of seven, bers are able to travel overseas and readily at least five will be nurses. I do not know obtain employment in their profession. In whether the chairman is included in the this respect it is far ahead of the engineer­ total of seven, but provision is made for the ing, medical and legal professions. Young chairman to be a member of the nursing women in the nursing profession are able profession. 1'hat is ~mpovtant, because to see a lot of the world and at the same nurses have a greater knowledge of the time gain additional experience in their pro­ ramifications of their profession than any fession. layman could possibly have. I do not know In days gone by, girls who wished to enter whether we will ever see the day when that the nursing profession had to pay for their principle is extended to such bodies as training. My mother was one such young hospitals boards and we have a preponder­ woman. How the position has changed! ance of medical men on those boards. I Nurses can now obtain qualifications that doubt it, but it would not be an undesirable are recognised both here and overseas. We step if it were taken. have indeed come a long way. Nursing Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Nursing Bill 2147

Mr. Porter: I hope we don't go mad fession. It is my belief that over the years and go too far. the professions of medicine and nursing have been unduly harsh on their members who Mr. SIMPSON: I am sure that nurses have become addicted. I suppose there would will adopt a sensible and responsible attitude be few doctors who have practised for anY in laying down the procedures that are to length of time who have not been con­ be followed in their training. fronted with a nurse sufferin.g from dru.g addiction. I would like to think that those Whilst allowing the nursing profession to nurses could be allowed to continue in their develop and progress to the fullest possible profession under whatever observation, con­ extent, we must ensure that we do not trol or reporting was considered necessarv put the avenues of entry into the profession while they underwent any treatment that beyond the reach of those persons who have might be needed to help them overcome this God-given gift of being able to care their problem. and look after other people. We must adopt Nursing has been with us for more than a sensible approach to entrance qualifications a century, and in that time nurses have been and ensure that they can be obtained by extremely kind to humanity. It is time that as many people as possible. We must also we exhibited some of that same humanita­ ensure that no restrictions are imposed on rianism towards those nurses unfortunate those dedicated nurses who wish to take enough to have a drug problem-and that their training and experience as far as pos­ problem need not relate only to morphia, sible. Of course, there is a distinction heroin and pethidine. It could also apply between the nursing and medical professions, to valium and other tranquillising drugs. It and this is one aspect that needs to be would be nice to think that addicted nurses looked at in a practical way. could carry out their duties under supervis­ Nursing aides are another rung in the ion, and that the board could review their ladder of treatment and care of people. They attempt to rehabilitate themselves or make provide an essential service in the hospitals a decision (taking perhaps up to 12 months and give full support to the doctors and where a nurse is making progress) to allow nurses. that nurse to return to her full duties without Everyone in the community should recog­ any stigma or slur attaching to her addiction, nise the nursing profession as a wonderful habituation or abuse. I think there should example of what can be achieved by adopting also be provision for appeal where the nurse a sensible approach to the work to be done. feels that she has been unfairly or harshly Other trades and professions could follow dealt with. the example set by the nursing profession, The public should be aware that doctors which is indeed a stable one in the care who have been similarly caught have often of the community. beaten the legal machinery by voluntarily retiring from practice-withdrawing them­ Dr. LOCKWOOD (Toowoomba North) selves from the decision-making scene. They (3.28 p.m.): This Bill is necessary to allow have withdrawn themselves from a position nursing education to continue in Queensland of having access to or handling drugs and until the revolutionary Nursing Studies Bill, they have, upon rehabilitation, been allowed which will open up nursing education to all to recommence practice and present them­ those modern benefits that are available, selves to the public once again as members comes into force. of their profession. I believe that the least It is pleasing to note that the Board of we can do for the nursing profession is to Nursing will be able to continue to play allow them a similar means of coping with its role of supervising nursing education and the problem. that at least five members of that board will be registered nurses. This is in keeping There is also a need to be ever alert to the changing needs for qualifications in with the legislation relating to nursing educa­ enrolment. I would not like to see any tion in general. blanket standards laid down. There is more One matter to which I wish to address than one means of proving oneself capable myself is the need to have committees of of undergoing a course of education. If State examiners assess not only local appli­ a nursing aide has demonstrated an under­ cants for entrance into the nursing profession standing and skill in her practice as a but also interstate and overseas arrivals who nursing aide and exhibits a willingness to wish to continue in the profession or further undergo further education, she should be their education within it. allowed to undertake such further education Disciplinary action against nurses has long as is necessary to enable her to complete been a difficulty, particularly discipline of her formal training. I would like the Minis­ those who have fallen prey to the extremely ter or the board to have the power and the serious and nasty problem of drug addic­ prerogative to accept or reject applications tion, which is a growing one in this State. in for enrolment in nursing studies along those the country and throughout the world as a lines. whole. It is a sad fact that the greatest number of those addicted to hard drugs are Mr. KATTER (Flinders) (3.34 p.m.): I will nurses, who for some reason or another be very brief. First, I congratulate the Minis­ become exposed to them through their pro- ter on making the first move to create what 2148 Nursing Bill (7 DECEMBER 1976] Nursing Bill

I see as a paramedical role for the nursing Dr. EDWARDS: The Government's pol­ profession of Queensland. Nurses are com­ icy is that there be a medical practitioner ing very much to the fore in fulfilling that and a woman on every hospital board role, and the Minister, through this legisla­ throughout the State. We have tried to im­ tion, is giving the profession the teeth by plement this wherever possible. I certainly which they can justifiably do it. With the support it. If the woman can be a nurse, acute shortage of doctors in the State of so much the better. Queensland, we must look more closely to The honourable member for Cooroora people such as nurses to perform some of welcomed the legislation. He referred to the less onerous burdens that now fall upon training in past days. Those of us who had doctors themselves. experience in those darker days of nurse­ I should like to repeat what was said training realise that the nurses of that time very strongly in the various party rooms in contributed a tremendous amount and were this regard. We plead with the board, when given very little credit for the amount of it is set up, not to introduce any educational work they did in patient care under very qualifications that would prejudice some, but difficult circumstances. I support him in his to look at people on their merits. If a per­ tribute to the nursing profession during that son spent a number of years as a nurse's period. aide, how she performed in that particular Many of the important breakthroughs in role should be looked at rather than how the profession of medicine generally must many examinations she may have passed. be attributed to the fine nursing care given by dedicated nurses at the bedside of the I should like to bring to the attention of patient. the Committee the tremendous job done by people in the "Eventide" homes-the old With both this Bill and the Nursing people's homes-and in the mental institutions Studies Bill, I have made it quite clear to and hospitals. They perform a very unre­ the nursing profession, and I make it quite warding task in the sense that a lot of clear to those who read these speeches to work yields very little profit. Yet they con­ discover the basis on which these Bills have tinue in that work with nothing less than been set up, that we want all nurse educa­ modern-day heroism. Classic examples of tion to be based on clinical concern and this dedication can be seen in the staff of care. As we have said repeatedly, the im­ two large hospitals in my home town of portant role of the nurse is part of the team­ Charters Towers. work concept of care for patients. I make no apology for my stand on that. To the nurses in those two hospitals in The honourable member referred to the the Flinders electorate I express my tremen­ dedication of nurses. The Government has dously high respect also for their almost been well aware of the tremendous dedica­ complete lack of industrial strife over the tion of the profession and the very ethical years, despite the fact some 400 people are way in which it has carried out its work employed there. for a long time. I, too, pay tribute to this I support the legislation on the basis that fine profession. we are looking towards a definite para­ The honourable member for Toowoomba medical role for the nurses together with North welcomed the legislation. As a mem­ commensurate status and qualifications. ber of my health committee he has played a role in the formulation of this legislation. Hon L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minis­ He mentioned the problems of addiction. ter for Health) (3.37 p.m.), in reply: I He referred to a provision in the Bill which thank honourable members for their con­ I think is a breakthrough in legislation in tributions. It was very gratifying to hear all this State if not throughout Australia. The speakers support the Bill generally. Bill contains provision for those who do have addictive problems or problems with The honourable member for Nudgee wel­ drugs when they are brought before the comed and supported the legislation. I know board for disciplinary action, and the board that he feels very strongly on consolidation will be given power to adjourn a case while of Acts. This is another piece of legisla­ the person concerned undergoes treatment. tion concerning the Health Department's At the end of that treatment programme a administration that we have consolidated and report can be given to the board and a I am sure that this has delighted his heart. decision can be made. The matter that he He mentioned the appointment of nurses mentioned is of great importance and I to the board. As I indicated, there will be feel sure that this provision will be wel­ at least five. Then, of course, there is the comed by all who have any association with power of the Minister for nominations to the very difficult problem of addiction to be greater than that. As the chairman of drugs. In the past those with such an the board is a nurse, I feel that the nursing addiction have been cast out of the profes­ profession will be given a very large say in sion and a stigma has been placed on them. the registration procedures for the profes­ This legislation gives such people an oppor­ sion. tunity for rehabilitation and I believe that that w~ll be welcomed J:lY both the nursing Mr. MeUoy: What about hospital boards? professiOn and the med1cal profession. Medical Act, &c., Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Health Act, &c., Bill (No. 2) 2149

The honourable member also mentioned These amendments are of a machinery the need for an appeal provision. This is nature only and completely formal. provided in the Bill. I feel certain that the I commend the motion to the Committee. honourable member will be delighted with the provision concerning appeals against Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) {3.45 p.m.): The decisions of the board. Opposition accepts the assurance of the Min­ The honourable member for Flinders ister that these are consequential amendments mentioned the role of the nurse as a para­ following the introduction of the Pharmacy medical officer. I am not sure that the Bill and the Nursing Bill and are desirable nursing profession would like to be referred to bring the other Acts into conformity with to as paramedical. They feel very strongly the provisions contained in the Bills I have that nurses are part of the team, and there mentioned. is, of course, no more important person in Motion (Dr. Edwards) agreed to. the medical team than the one who is caring for the patient. I make it quite clear Resolution reported. that the nurse has a vital part to play in the care of the patient, just as medical FIRST READING practitioners, domestic workers and clerical Bill presented and, on motion of Dr. workers are all part of the team that provides Edwards, read a first time. medical and nursing care. The honourable member mentioned the concern that he and other members, es.pecially those from country areas, have about entrance HEALTH ACT AMENDMENT BILL qualifications. The Nursing Studies Act will (No. 2) give power to the board to make by-laws laying down entrance requirements. I assure INITIATION IN COMMITTEE the honourable member that his remarks on (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) this subject will be kept in mind. I thank honourable members for their com­ Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minister ments. I feel certain that the Bill will be well for Health) (3.48 p.m.): I move- and truly welcomed by members and the "That a Bill be introduced to amend the profession generally. Health Act 1937-1976 in certain partic­ Motion (Dr. Edwards) agreed to. ulars." Resolution reported. On previous occasions in this Chamber I have expressed concern at the inadequacy FIRST READING of penalties imposed by the courts for some drug offences, and in a recent amendment to Bill presented and, on motion of Dr. the Health Act provision was made for 'the Edwards, read a first time. Attorney-General to have the right of appeal against the punishment imposed. MEDICAL ACT AND OTHER ACTS Drug abuse in the community takes many (ADMINISTRATION) ACT AMENDMENT forms and some, such as the use of tobacco BILL and alcohol, we can only hope to overcome by education of the public and, perhaps INITIATION IN COMMITTEE more importantly, the children of this State (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) that they might appreciate the dangers inher­ ent in the use of these accepted accessories Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minister to our present life-style. for Health) (3.44 p.m.): I move- A far greater menace in the community, "That a Bill be introduced to amend however, is those people who seek to profit the Medical Act and Other Acts (Adminis­ from the illicit supply of drugs to residents tration) Act 1966-1976 in certain par­ of this State and particularly those who ticulars." prey on our school-children to peddle their The provisions of the Medical Act and wares. These drug traffickers, by their activ­ Other Acts (Administration) Act 1966-1976 ities, have damaged the lives of those who complement legislation for the administration become dependent upon them and leave of seven professional boards in Queensland. grief and hardship in their wake. The amendments contained in this Bill will The Government is committed to taking substitute the Pharmacy Board of Queensland every possible step to reduce the trafficking constituted under the Pharmacy Act 1976 in drugs in Queensland and to rehabilitate and the Nurses Registration Board of Queens~ residents of the State who have become land constituted under the Nursing Act 1976, victims of their own folly. The National for the Pharmacy Board and Nurses Board Standing Control Committee on Drugs of constituted under repealed Acts. Dependence recently re-examined penalties for The Bill also contains the repeal of a trafficking in dangerous drugs and prohibited section the provisions of which are now plants and gave consideration to a recom­ redundant owing to incorporation in the mendation of a working party of that commit­ Pharmacy Act 1976. tee that penalties be increased. 2150 Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

This Bill now provides for increased pen­ for pest control purposes. Honourable mem­ alties in Queensland for trafficking in danger­ bers would appreciate the dangers inherent in ous drugs and prohibited plauts. The penalty the use of poisons around foodstuffs and for conviction upon indictment is increased utensils. from imprisonment with hard labour for 10 years or a fine of $10,000, or both fine !"'rovided the requirements of existing legis­ and imprisonment to a maximum of life latiOn are observed, the provisions of this imprisonment or a fine of $100,000 or both Bill will not limit the use of poison for fine and imprisonment. The National Staud­ pest control by an individual in his own ing Control Committee on Drugs of Depend­ home. It will, however, prevent anyone who ence also considered the proceeds obtained ~s not ~ licensed pest control operator apply­ from illicit trading in drugs and the seizure mg po1son for fee or reward and putting the and forfeiture of such moneys. general public at risk by his activities. The various provisions of the division A further provision of the Bill introduces detail the procedures for issuing licences and penalties for possession of money or other the requirements necessary to be eligible to securities obtained directly or indirectly as a receive a licence. Certain obligations are result of trafficking in daugerous drugs or placed on licensed operators to notify details prohibited plants, similar to the penalties of accidents. Provision is also made for that will be applicable for a conviction on powers of inspectors in respect to equipment indictment or in summary proceedings for and pesticides and for the Director-General trafficking in dangerous drugs and prohibited of He~lth and Medical Services to prepare plants. regulatiOns necessary for the effective func­ The Bill also provides for money or other tioning of the division. Provision is made securities obtained from the illicit sale of for imposition of penalties for breaches. drugs to be forfeited to the Crown on con­ Existing pest control operators will have until viction. Procedures are established to deal 31 March 1977 to make application and with securities aud to allow for appeals to become licensed. be heard. All moneys forfeited in this man­ At present, botanists employed by the ner will be paid ,to Consolidated Revenue. Department of Primary Industries identify The provision of the Health Act relative plants and seeds seized by police officers. This to power to detain, search, seize and arrest results in considerable loss of time from their is extended to include power to detain a duties by the botanists appearing subsequently :pers~:m who i~ reasonably suspected of having to give evidence in court. It is proposed that m h1s possessiOn or to his order or disposition certain botanists will be appointed as State money or any other securities in contraven­ botanists by the Governor in Council under tion of Section 130 of the Act. existing provisions of the Health Act 1937- 1976. A provision of the Bill will enable The Health Act at present provides for certificates issued by State botanists to be prescription of quantities of various drugs, a accepted in Court as are certificates issued quantity in excess of which is related to an ~y State analysts, substantially reducing the offence against section 130 of the Act. It has t1me lost by these officers in court appear­ come to notice that on occasions a drug is ances. An exemption from the provisions of mixed in another substance and, while the section 130 of the Act is also provided for a combined weight exceeds the prescribed State botanist who might be required to have amount, the actual amount of drug present prohibited plants in his possession for identi­ is less than the amount prescribed. This mix­ fication, storage or cultivation. ing of drug and substance is a feature of trafficking, and the Bill provides for both The Bill also contains amendments to the the quautity of a drug and the quantity of a regulation-making powers of the Director­ substance containing that drug, relative to an General to put beyond doubt his authority offence against section 130 of the Act, to to make regulations in respect of the mauu­ be prescribed. facture and packaging of poisons and to extend power to raise fees for aualysis to The various provisions of the Bill will include analysis of articles and the imposition allow police officers to ,take more effective of fees for examination of plants and seeds measures to deal with persons who traffic by a State botanist. in dangerous drugs aud prohibited plants in Queensland, aud together with the imposition The Solicitor-General has advised that the by the courts of increased penalties for per­ present provision of the Act under which sons found guilty of trafficking, within the the dispensary regulations are made is limits now provided, I am confident that inadequate to enable regulations to be made significant progress can be made to reduce in respect of the total area of the pharmacy. the drug problem in this State. As it is considered desirable that standards be able to be established in respect to the The Bill also provides a new division of whole pharmacy area, provision is made the Act relative to pest control operators. For accordingly in this Bill. some time now the Pest Control Association of Queensland has sought the introduction of A number of bodies that nominate mem­ legislation to license pest control operators bers to the Queensland Radium Institute as the association was concerned as to the have changed their title or been replaced by activities of unqualified persons using poisons Australian equivalents, such as the Australian Health Act (7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2151 iVf edical Association in lieu of the British must do all in our power to overcome this Medical Association. A provision of the situation. Whether it calls for more educa­ Bili adopts these new nominating bodies. tion of young people as to the dangers associ­ ated with drug-taking, I do not know. Unfort­ I would remind honourable members that unately, many young persons tend to look this Bill has as its major objective the pro­ upon drug-taking as something .of a~ adven­ tection of the health and well-being of the ture, and this line of thought IS bemg pro­ residents of this State. pagated by the drug pushers. I commend the motion to the Committee. It is pointless imposing severe penalties Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (3.56 p.m.): On for drug-·trafficking unless the traffickers can the subject of medicine and health, this. is be detected and caught. The threat of life one of the most important and far-reachmg imprisonment for drug-trafficking will drive Bills we have had introduced for some time. the pushers underground and will lead to Apart from the provisions . covering for­ the tightening up of organisation among drug feitures and the money obtamed from the traffickers. They will do all they possibly can sale of drugs, the main impact of the Bill to avoid detection. This will create tre­ is on the penalties to be imposed. mendous problems for the health authorities. I do not know what my views on this I hope that this Bill engenders a great are. I have some concern about high penal­ deal of debate, and I hope that those mem­ ties, because they are more or less tan­ bers from ·the medical and legal professions tamount to a prohibition on the existence can come up with a solution to the J?roble:n of drugs in this State. The penalty is so that I am sure will be created by thrs legrs­ high that drucr-trafficking will no longer be lation. I am certain that drug traffickers something that small-time operators wi~l b_e will find more devious ways of pushing drugs. able to afford to engage in. The Bill JS putting a complete prohibition on the acti­ The licensing of pest control operators vities of the drug-trafficker. is most essential. At present no-one who carries out the spraying of houses with Dr. Edwards: I hope you are right. pesticides is required to be qualified in their Mr. MELLOY: The point I am making use. is that it could lead to more devious and Mr. Hartwig: Spray poisons. more undesirable methods of drug-traffick­ in a in the State. Because of the possibility Mr. MELLOY: Spray poisons. Virtually at life imprisonment drug-traffickers will go anyone can obtain a job with a pest control to greater lengths to avoid detection. It firm. Some persons employed as pest. ex­ could be that they will impose harder con­ terminators are so inefficient and unreliable ditions on those seeking drugs. In this way that I would not give them a job under it could create hardship for those who depend any circumstances. Yet they have ~o dif­ on drugs. I am not sure of the value of ficulty in obtaining work as pest extermmators. these high penalties. I know that something It is a terrible thing that they are allowed has to be done to restrict trafficking in drugs. to spray houses for cockroaches, spid.ers and Dr. Crawford: It equates drug-trafficking other pests. They must be reqmred to with murder. possess certain qualifications. As I say, I hope that at this stag~ ~d Mr. MELLOY: The penalty of life impris­ also at the second-reading S·tage the Brll w11l onment does that. It puts drug-trafficking promote a great deal of discussion. On on a level with murder. Because of the behalf of 1the Opposition, I am prepared to Jives destroyed I have no doubt that drug­ acknowledge the fact that it is most desir­ trafficking is equivalent to murder, and_ I able legislation. suppose that is the justification ~or hfe imprisonment. But we have to consider the effect on those who are committed to drug­ Dr. CRAWFORD (Wavell) (4.4 p.m.): This taking. We have to do something for those is both necessary and good legislation. The who are now going to be deprived of drug_s. problem of the use and abuse of drugs is It will be much harder for them to obtam one that concerns health authorities in all drugs because of the penalty- that can _be responsible nations. The efficiency of Health imposed on those who provide them w1th Departments mirrors the health of the com­ drugs. munity. Australia can take. a great dea} of pride from the fact that m recent .times Dr. Crawford: They can go for medical neither of the two unpleasant epidemic dis­ treatment. eases that were introduced into this country by airline passengers produced secondary Mr. MELLOY: As long as we provide that, cases. The first of these was an outbreak and as long as people are aware of the of cholera, which was brought into 'this medical treatment available to them for country earlier this year or late last year. their drug problem. It does not seem to Quite recently-within the last week or two­ me that we are doing anything about school­ we have had an outbreak of typhoid brought children. We hear stories every day of here by air travellers and scattered through­ drugs being obtained by school-children. We out the southern States of this country. 2152 Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

When one moves to the less educated and our citizens, both young and old, are aware less progressive countries of the world with of the importance of the misuse and abuse health services non-existent, one appreciates of drugs, so that the young people in that the barrier of adequate health services particular can be weaned away from the in Australia is of the greatest possible thought that they can experiment with these importance to the maintenance of public health drugs as if they are of no real importance and welfare in our country. If at any stage and that they can turn off the use of the we allow those standards to slip or permit drugs easily if they feel that they wish to a half-hearted approach to the maintenance do so. The lie must be given to this line of health standards to creep into our adminis­ of thinking and reasoning because in effect tration or into our legislation, we will fall none of these drugs are innocuous. to those standards which obtain in the less fortunate countries of the world. Marijuana is not an innocent drug that can be called non-addictive. It has been The spraying and use of pesticides and proved quite conclusively, particularly in insecticides domestically and agriculturally is some work in Bristol, that marijuana shrinks also of importance. As has been pointed out, the size of brain cells and that the long­ we have not controlled that use of those term users of marijuana have mental impair­ dangerous drugs at all. The honourable ment and mental inefficiency resulting from member for Nudgee has stated that some that decrease in the size of their brain cells. of the people he knows use these drugs. Our young people must be educated to If he knew the effects they produce, he realise that this is a fact. In my view, it probably would not even allow those people is not of major importance whether a mar­ to mow his grass! We do need to control ijuana user subsequently moves to so-called the use of those drugs. Many members of hard drugs but it is of major importance the community have been quite grievously that the users and the people who tend to affected by their side-effects. The indiscrimin­ use all of these drugs should be educated ate use of insecticides and pesticides is not to realise the real potential of this use and in the best interests of agriculture or food the fact that they have every possibility in the production in this country. short term and the long term of burning out DDT itself is now looked upon as being their mental processes. I think that simple dangerous to the ecology in other ways. message can be broadcast from every hilltop When various insects and so-called pests are in this country and that the education pro­ destroyed by the use of drugs such as that, gramme should be an integral part of a other parasites take over the functions pre­ training programme and a treatment pro­ viously performed by them. So there has to gramme which should be based in all major be a controlling factor in this aspect of centres throughout Australia. our lives, both domestically and agriculturally. Next we have to deal, as this Bill is I turn now to the misuse of dangerous dealing, with those people who are prepared drugs in the community in general. In recent to supply drugs to our community purely years a great deal of research has been for monetary gain. However adequate our carried out across the world into this matter. education programmes and however satis­ An aura of gloom has descended on medical factory our treatment programmes are, publications around the world when this there will always be a market for the supply matter is discussed. The Americans accepted, of these drugs. As the production of the rightly or wrongly, that it is better to control drugs is intimately bound up with the a person who is addicted to a dangerous economy of certain South-east Asian drug such as methadone through the health countries, one has to contend with the services than to have him demanding and morality of producing the drugs or of the using violent means to acquire supplies of Governments of those countries allowing heroin. their production. Their sale at the wholesale A very energetic research institute in level in Thailand and other South-east Asian Edinburgh has carried out a great amount countries is part of the economy of those of work in the field of heroin addiction. countries. We have to face quite firmly the Its publications in recent years have been fact that the drugs will continue to be pro­ part of the gloom that has descended on duced and that there will be those avaricious the whole scene. Unfortunately it has been and unpleasant members of the community found by that institute that the cure rate who are prepared, for the sake of the financial of addicts is probably less than one per cent. reward, to transport drugs across the world, In other words, whatever moneys are made particularly to countries such as Britain, the available to treat and attempt to cure drug United States and Australia, to supply the addicts, the end result of all that treatment market. and the expenditure of all that human Let me say to anyone who thinks that the resource, money and medical expertise is market will decrease that it is probable, from depressingly gloomy indeed. latest research, that between 5 and 10 per We still must try to cope with the problem. cent of any community-and this applies to We can do two things. We can continue Australia-is a potential market for the use to treat addicts of all types and, as part of of these drugs. Therefore if we are to that treatment, institute an intensive education attempt to rehabilitate drug addicts and pre­ programme throughout our country so that vent youngsters from becoming drug addicts, Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2153 we have to cut off the supplies, to have the trafficker so that there is no ambiguity most stringent conditions applying to our whatever when it comes to implementation customs surveillance and to bring about a of the law. situation as applies under this Bill and, so I am informed, in every State in Australia Mr. SIMPSON (Cooroora) (4.18 p.m.): which is introducing similar Bills, so that By introducing the Bill the Minister is facing those who wish to indulge in drug­ up to the growing problem of the use of trafficking will realise exactly where they drugs in Australia. Drug-trafficking is big are placing themselves with regard to pos­ business and it is necessary that penalties for sible penalties. ii should be increased in this State in line with increases in other States. Young people I see no problem at all in equating drug­ who become addicted to drugs are virtually trafficking with murder. I see no problem being sentenced to death. at all in the introduction of a penalty which It is interesting to observe that whilst so involves life-term imprisonment as a result. much emphasis is placed on the drug pedlar, In Middle East countries, such as Persia, I there are those who say, "It is all right to understand the penalty is still to shoot on experiment with drugs. That is not very bad. sight any drug traffickers caught on the It is the trafficker who is the big, bad boy." border. I do not think the authorities in He is, of course, the main offender because those. countrie~ have a~y difficulty in making he provides for ·the trade and he is the one th.e simple ~diet that If a person is caught who makes money from it. I believe that we With a certam amount of drugs on his person must put forward, with as much force as we he will automatically be assumed to be a are increasing penahies, a programme to trafficker and he will be placed against the educate young people in this field and to nearest wall and shot. make them •aware of the devastation that can be caused to their health, their loved ones We in our so-called civilised society in and the community by drug experimentation this country do not do such things. I do not expect we ever will, nor would I wish that has been shown to lead 1o the use of harder and still harder drugs. We must to see that type of approach to the treat­ mount an education programme to try to ment of any criminal. However, those responsible for supplying for monetary gain overcome this problem. drugs to young people, who are the most The Minister ·indicated that he intended to susceptible subjects for addiction, should be tighten up on fue apprehension of people treated with the greatest harshness by the dealing in drugs, but I wonder whether he law. .They should be told quite clearly and has looked at the question of entry onto uneqUivocally that rthese penalties will not private property without a warrant. I believe only be included in the legislation but will this is one area of the law which should be be imposed by the courts when they are looked at. It should be necessary for police brought to trial. to have a warrant before entering property >and carrying out the very necessary task of I see one slight difficulty in the definition apprehending people suspected of being in of drug trafficker. It is qui1e possible that possession of drugs or of trafficking in drugs. a person who is carrying a drug for his own I have had an instance in my area where use could be accused of being a drug the police suspected that there were drugs trafficker simply because of the amount of the in a certain house. Two policemen arrived drug found on his person. I think that the at the door and said to the lady of fue definition of a drug trafficker should be house, "We suspect that your son has been clearly spelt out either in the Act or regula­ using drugs or associating with drug users." tions. For example, a person may have in The lady in the house said, "Do you have a his possession a tobacco pouch containing warrant?" They said, "No; we don't need two ounces of marijuana. Is he or is he not one." And, that, apparently, is fue law. a potential supplier of other people with I believe the police should have to get a that drug? I think we have to set out very warrant. A warrant is not hard to get when clear guide-lines so that it is not left to a the police can substantiate that it is for such police officer at Cedar Bay or Wattle Creek an important task. The woman I have to make his own decision. If we consider it referred to rang her solicitor and he said, desirable to impose heavy penalties for drug­ "Oh, the thing to do is to keep an eye on trafficking, there should be a very clear indi­ the policemen and make sure you are there cation in the legislation, for the guidance while they interview your son." She said of Jaw-enforcement officers, of ·the exact to him, "How can I do that? One policeman is amount .of drug which, if found on a person, rummaging through the house and fue oilier automatically makes him a trafficker. If a is in the front room interviewing my son." person is smoking marijuana himself, no iit is obvious that she could not be in two doubt he realises that he is breaking the places at once. Although we must endeavour law. But, if he attempts to sell it, that is in every way to see that the law is carried a very different situation and it must be out and these drug pushers apprehended, we spelt out in detail. must also see that the rights of fue individual are protected. I am very happy with the legislation but The Minister also indicated that an amend­ I hope the Minister will be persuaded to ment to fue Act will require the registration spell out clearly the definition of a drug of pest control operators. I think this is 2154 Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

very important, because we have seen instan­ a burden on the community because the tax­ ces in the past where operators have fumi­ payers have to meet the additional cost gated silos and not put proper notification of keeping them in gaol. on the doors, and unsuspecting people have walked into the silos and been poisoned. It is Mr. Frawley: String 'em up! important that these sometimes lethal chemi­ cals are y~ed only by responsible people and Mr. HARTWIG: I agree that we shoYld are admmistered correctly and, most import­ do something with these people that will antly, that the householder is informed of the prevent their becoming a burden on the possible danger of the chemicals and the pre­ community. cautions that must be taken before people I wish to deal now with the proposed enter rooms which have been fumigated. amendments to the part of the Act dealin" Another amendment relates to pharmacy with pesticides. These are long ovedue and measurements. I think that the Government of Queen;land and .the M.inist.er .in p~rticular, are doing I reiterate that the dangers of drug abuse the nght thmg m t1ghtemng these provisions ~ust be taught in our homes and publicised of the Act. Perhaps it is a little late in m the Press and on radio. Children must be the day, but at least a start is now being taught in our schools that if in fact they made. experiment with drugs they could end up in dire straits. Drug pedlars must be made As I have said many times before in aware of the severe penalties which can be this Chamber, more problems arise from imposed upon them and that they will in the misuse of pesticides than from their fact be likened to murderers, because the use. A specific pesticide may present hazards drugs they push can shorten a person's life of differing degrees to different sections of or cause him to liy~ a life of. g:eat misery. our society-that is, there is a differing I commend the Mm1ster on his mtroduction hazard to the manufacturer, the applicator, of the Bill. the consumer of the residue on produce or foodstuffs, and the environment and wildlife . . Mr. HARTWIG (Callide) (4.24 p.m.): I nse to support the Bill, which provides for I was interested to read in an article of an increase in penalties for drug-trafficking, which I have a copy that a marabou stork a problem encountered not only in this shot in East Africa was found to contain country but throughout the world. It should 1,093 locusts, and that a Abdim stork was be remembered that in many countries today found to have gobbled down 3,481 grass­ the penalty for drug-pushing is death. It hoppers. Surely that is a new one for the seems to me that drug-taking is more pre­ Guinness Book of Records! The preservation valent in coastal towns and cities among of wildlife is a very important consideration young people that it is elsewhere. I am when the use of insecticides is being con­ fairly sure that evidence could be given sidered. to support my claim. Therefore, I think Since it is possible to cause injury with the Committee would conclude that drugs all chemicals if exposure is high enough or must be coming by ship from overseas. occurs through a particular route, it must Admittedly, some would be coming in on be true that all chemicals are toxic. H they aircraft, bYt it would be more difficult to were not, they would not kill the particular bring them in by air. wogs that they are supposed to kill. Regret­ Those of us who live on the coastal belt tably I had the experience of a man coming of Queensland know that very often at onto my property and spraying with a poison. night one sees Very lights, vessels putting I am sure he did not know the dangers out to sea for reasons unknown, and other involved in the use of that poison. He was activities, and I think that more work must not forced by law to leave any notice that be done in this field. It is too late to take a particular silo was not to be entered. Since action once the drugs have been brought then we have found out that he used double into the country and young people are sub­ strength phosphine gas in liquid form. As a jected to the advances of drug pushers. result my son passed away four days after Admittedly, some drugs are produced locally entering a silo that had been sprayed. What -probably members representing northern redress did we have? Absolutely none. The areas will have more to say about that person involved simply got in his car and later-but drugs definitely are being brought drove away. Each day as I go around my to Australia by overseas vessels. It seems electorate I can smell the stuff coming from to be fairly easy to get them ashore-they houses that have been sprayed. Families sleep have their means-and, of course, our young in those houses at night. The hazards are people are then faced with a tremendous not explained to them. In most instances hazard. the applicator does not himself know the risk. I commend the Minister for takina As to the provision for fining a drug action in this regard. "' pusher $100,000 or gaoling him for life­ I should say that we will have to build new In the farming community everybody knows prisons, because not many people will be that it is impossible to grow produce unless able to pay the $100,000 and those who some sort of insecticide is used. I pay tribute cannot will automatically be sent to gaol to most farmers who study the labels. Most for life, and rightly so. They then become farmers are practical men who know the Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2155 dangers involved. Persons engaged by Flick Similarly, marijuana seeds, which are quite and other pesticide people enter homes with­ distinctive, could be mounted in plastic. The out having any knowledge of how to apply display of exhibits such as this would allow the chemicals they use and, as a result, they the public to be able to recognise marijuana place human life in danger. and would possibly result in fewer false reports of the cultivation of marijuana, such I commend the Bill. It is time that as those to the effect that it is being grown unauthorised people were stopped by way by little old ladies in pots at the top of the of regulation; it is time that authorised front stairs. Marijuana leaves and seeds people were required by regulation to give mounted in the way that I have suggested notice of the dangers involved for the could be distributed to the Queensland Health occupants of dwellings. Although the legisla­ Education Council, the Juvenile Aid Bureau tion is belated, I once again commend the and police stations, where ·they could be put Minister for introducing it. on public display. Persons who view them would then be able to recognise marijuana Dr. LOCKWOOD (foowoomba North) plants if they happen to stumble across them (4.33 p.m.): First of all I should like to in the bush or in any other place. address myself to the problem of drug­ It would be wise, too, to acquaint the trafficking. Some people might regard the public with the characteristic smell of mari­ proposed penalty of $100,000 as being exces­ juana. It can quite easily be detected on a sive, particularly when there is also provision marijuana smoker. for life imprisonment should the court deem that to be deserved. At last the heroin murders have caught the attention of the Press. Heroin addicts are I believe that heavy penalties should apply a nuisance not only to the law but also to to those who grow, manufacture, or sell persons who sell heroin. When they become dangerous drugs in anything other than a too much of a nuisance they are got rid of small quantity. The definition of "quantity" quite simply. Instead of giving them cut needs to be well and truly spelt out. I am heroin, all the pushers do is give them pure told that in a recent court case someone who heroin, which, when injected in a large quan­ had $33,000 worth of marijuana under cul­ tity, results very quickly in death. A promi­ tivation claimed that that was only a little nent boxer of world-wide fame died in New bit, and that it was for his own personal use. York in this manner, and I do not think it will I do not believe that $33,000 worth of be very long before similar deaths occur in marijuana constitutes a quantity for personal Australia. use. The Bill also provides for the control of A person grmving that much marijuana is pest exterminators. This is not before time. in it strictly for the money he can make The introduction of this measure has been by selling it. The fine should always bear delayed by the inability of the Government a relationship to the total value of the crop parties to agree on the best means by which seized. In that case I believe the fine should this control can be exercised. have been of the order of $33,000 to Pest control operators, because they use $66,000. I do not see why someone who nasty and noxious substances, are usually grew $33,000 worth of marijuana should be given the run of the home by the house­ let off with a fine of about $1,000. Such holder. They go about their business with­ persons are out to make big money and out supervision or observ·ation and it is quite will take big risks to get it; they are much easy for them to learn the exact locking bigger in the drug trade than many people devices used in homes, the location of are prepared to admit. Likewise, the penalties, valuables and in fact the complete layout of too, must be big. Through the grape-vine homes, offices, factories and warehouses. So such people should be made aware of the it is imperative ·that only good and honest risks that they take. They should hear of persons be allowed to obtain employment their fellows who are caught and convicted as pest control operators. They must, of and sentenced to long periods in prison or course, have no criminal record. It is up to heavily fined. us as a Government to ensure tha;t no person with a criminal record is able to set himself The imposition of heavy fines might drag up as a pest control operator or pose as one. some of the money back out of the drug empire and syndicates and it might also act Mr. Moore: He's got to be of good as a deterrent to would-be drug pushers. character. Action taken recently in this State has resul­ ted in a minor shortage of marijuana and a Dr. LOCKWOOD: Very good character. consequent price rise of from $25 to $50 The public should be made aware that at per ounce. times pest control operators use gases similar There is a need for people to be able to to those used in gas warfare in World War I recognise marijuana plants. They are not and by Hitler in his gas ovens. Persons who able to recognise them simply with the aid use them must be highly qualified in their of photographs. I would suggest that a whole use, in the toxicity of every chemical that spray of leaves be set in, say, one-inch they use, in the use of antidotes and in the thick plastic, as is done with sea shells, best methods of rescue of an operator who small crabs and so on, and placed on display. is eirher partially or completely overcome 2156 Health Act (7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

by gas. The labelling of a can with the words always be aware of that. I have seen people "If swallowed or if brought into contact wi,th who have disregarded safety when using a the skin send for a doctor" is not good mixture of carbon tetrachloride, ethylene enough. That might well and truly be too dibromide and ethylene dichloride. late. Mr. Moore: All of them poisonous. For their own information, each and every one of them must be thoroughly versed in Dr. LOCKWOOD: Yes. the early signs of the products they use having entered their systems in a toxic dose. Mixed in the appropriate quantities, they They must know, for example, if they get can be used as insecticides. If those sub­ a headache, dry mouth or blurred vision or stances get on a person's skin and he takes become pale, that they have to get out, get a hot bath after having a little bit of away from the product and carry out the alcohol, a doctor can have an extremely appropriate detoxification steps themselves. sick man on his hands. They have to know also the chronic toxicity The amazing thing about all this is that symptoms and signs. A pest control opera­ it takes only two minutes to read a Queens­ tor who is becoming a little slow in thought land Health Education Council pamphlet and a little lethargic-one who has an telling the operators why they should not do occasional fit or something like that-might those very things. When somebody who is well be suffering from the poison he has allegedly well trained and a professional laid about to get rid of various insects. Safe does not take precautions, it is clearly time procedures must always be followed. The to step up our safety standards, not only for penalty for serious breaches in these cases that man's own personal protection, but also is death or a $200 fine, whichever occurs for the protection of those who work with first. and near him and of the public generally. As many members would be aware, when Operators need expert training. They need cyanide is being used and the operator gets a full understanding of the poisons and how an itch under his mask and takes it off, they work, how they can be absorbed and he has only one breath left. I have seen how they can be prevented from entering men who took off their masks in a flour mill their systems. If it is too hot a day to wear in South Brisbane and had a couple of protective clothing, then spraying should be good gulps of cyanide gas. We say it is abandoned for the day. inhumane to use it on people, but we don't mind using it on the little pests that get I commend the Minister for the decision around flour mills. Its effects on people are to implement these controls. I know that ghastly. Some years ago at the Mater Hos­ professional pest controllers look forward to pital I saw persons treated for cyanide increased safety for themselves. When these poisoning. The sight was not very nice. provisions are implemented, those who work in the industry can look forward to better Mr. Moore: It stops the dogs from barking education and a course that will give them when they have a few sniffs. greater competence and skill so that they can handle these very toxic products with Dr. LOCKWOOD: It does indeed. the ultimate in safety for themselves and I have also seen people who have used the public. diazinon with gay abandon become as white as this paper-and no white men in good Mrs. KIPPIN (Mourilyan) (4.45 p.m.): I, health are as white as that. Those people too, welcome the Bill, particularly the pro­ were not using the proper applicator. They posals on drug offences. The honourable were not heeding the instructions at all. I member for Cooroora spoke about an edu­ doubt if some of them could even read. cation campaign. For some time, the They were being allowed by a person with Health Depar,tment and, to some extent, the more intelligence, who should have known Education Department have been conducting better, to sprinkle the stuff out of coffee health education campaigns. People will bottles through holes dug in the lids with a now be more willing to take advantage of screwdriver. Over a couple of days a lot these education campaigns. of the poison got onto their skin and was Last year, when mothers in my electorate absorbed into their bodies. Some of it was came to me to tell me that they thought blown by the wind onto their big 20-gallon their children were on drugs, all I could cold-water bag and was absorbed into it. recommend was that they give all of their They drank water from the bag. Before eat­ information to the police. But they were ing, they did not wash their hands thor­ most reluctant to do this and we got abso­ oughly. Half a dozen men presented them­ lutely nowhere. This year they have been selves on my doorstep one day demanding willing to talk to the police because in the slightly more atropine than the supply in last year people in North Queensland have the town. been educated to the problem of drugs and People should be aware of the dangers. are much more aware of the extent of the It is very easy for the accumulated poisons in problem. Until this year a lot of them felt any one town, district or shire to be applied that it could not happen to their children. in such a way that no hospital can save all They said, "I brought my child up to be a of the people. Pest control operators must responsible person and my family is not in Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2157 this category." Unfortunately many child­ Previously it was very difficult for the ren are under severe peer pressure within police to obtain convictions of pushers because their schools and sports groups and wherever of the minimum amount required to be in they go for entertainment and they are their possession. The provision of the Bill succumbing to this pressure. concerning the carrying of drugs will help Another problem arose when mothers who the police. After all, not a large quantity knew ,that their children and certain others of drugs is needed to produce a reasonable were on drugs and who were willing to return to pushers. accept it, tried to tell the other mothers. Unfortunately, one reason for the wide use They ran into awful trouble. The other of marijuana is that young people believe mothers were most reluctant to believe that that it does not have harmful effects. Today their children were on drugs and accused the many young lives are being ruined by the mother who was 1alking to them of trying to increasing acceptance .of drugs and often that cause trouble within their families. In many acceptance is based on a lack of proper cases this led to much unpleasantness. This knowledge of their harmful effects. There year the position is much better and with are people who say, "Look at cigarettes the help of the local prie&ts in the area we and alcohol. They are drugs but lots of are managing to counsel quite a number of people use them." I am sure that if today's young children. medical knowledge had been available at The higher penalties are aimed at drug the time of the introduction of tobacco, traffickers. I certainly hope that, once there would have been quite a campaign offenders are taken to court, magistrates will against its use. impose the maximum penalties. The com­ The use of the so-called soft drugs mari­ plaint of the average citizen in the past was juana and hashish has reached epidemic that penalties imposed on drug traffickers proportions in the United States. Unfortu­ were not heavy enough and that the magis­ nately, Australia seems to follow the United trates did not impose the maximum penalties. States in many things. The United States Dr. Lockwood: They are starting to. Government was so concerned at this prob­ lem that it commissioned an inquiry into it. Mrs. KIPPIN: I realise that but I think The inquiry has come up with some very they are shutting the stable door after the firm home truths about these drugs and horse has bolted. They should have started T think that every young person should know to do this a couple of years ago. In the them. North traffickers are able to pay fines of The testimony presented esta·blished beyond well over $1,000 within a matter of hours. any challenge that the epidemic was encour­ All ,that is required is a telegram to Sydney aged and facilitated by widespread propa­ University or to one of the local contacts. ganda in favour of marijuana. Its use was Mr. Wright: That's a bit rough. recommended in glowing terms to young people by the entire underground Press, Mrs. KIPPIN: No, it is not, we can prove certain Leftist organisations and, worst of it The fines are paid and the statement all, a number of prominent academics. made that there is plenty more if the offender Unfortunately, we see this happening in is caught again. Australia today. Some of the basic standards of our society are under challenge by the Most of the money paid for drugs is drug cult. Parents, young people and Gov­ actually an insurance against fines. I am ernments must stand up to that challenge if told that the ruling price in my electorate our way of life is to survive. I am sure for marijuana is about $32 an oz. We know many members who entered this Parliament that marijuana costs practically nothing to after the last election did so on a promise produce-and most of those producing it are that they would fight to maintain our present on the dole, anyhow. These are the prob­ way of life. lems that police in North Queensland face­ trying to get convictions against drug The epidemic spread of marijauna in traffickers and then finding that the maxi­ the United States was also encouraged by mum penalties are not imposed. As has the widespread belief that it was a harmless already been mentioned in the Chamber, the as well as a pleasant drug. The myth of drug trade is big business. harmlessness was based on no scientific evidence. The collective evidence of many Honourable members have mentioned >that eminent scientists pointed to massive potential police are hampered in their drug-education damage from the chronic use of marijuana, proo-rammes by being supposed not to have or cannabis, to the entire human cellular marljuana plants in their possession for dem­ process, to the reproductive system and onstration purposes. It would be useful if especially to the respiratory system. The it were possible to have drug kits for dem­ evidence also pointed to the serious possibility onstration purposes. As has already been of irreversible brain damage, and genetic mentioned. the smell of marijuana is par­ damage as well. ticularly distinctive. If parents could be educated to recognise it, they would be in a Evidence showed that the impacts of better position to know if their children were marijuana on the mind were just as frighten­ using marijuana. ing as its effects on the body. These impacts 2158 Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

included distortion of perception and reality, seized increased tenfold. I was interested to which could lead to early impairment of hear the honourable member for Callide judgment. The entire thought process was refer to the importation of drugs by ship. affected after one to three years of continuous This is something about which northern use of the drug. Several of the scientists who people are particularly concerned because, as testified to the inquiry said that, on the basis most honourabe members know, in North of the information now available, they con­ Queensland ships come inside the reef and it sidered marijuana to be the most danoerous is relatively easy for small boats to go out drug that society could have to contend with and meet them. The amount of heroin today. seized in the past year has more than doubled. Seizures of cannabis trebled to a Psychiatrists who testified said that they total of almost 1 500 000 g. knew of many cases of brilliant young people who went on prolonged cannabis binges and We will have the United States epidemic then tried to go straight afterwards, only here unless we are prepared to be fully to find that they could no longer perform aware of the consequences and to uphold at the level of which they had previously our standards in the face of the challenge. been capable. The great potential of their A common complaint of teachers in the youth had been destroyed. I am afraid that United States is that there is a general lack in North Queensland there is evidence of of motivation in the current generation of this in a number of children who have high school students, and this, of course, is fallen victim to this drug. Other testimony something which we must avoid. School given before the inquiry said that research in life is becoming much more dift1cult, so the England had found that the degree of arrest­ last thing we want is for the problems of men! in brain development in young cannabis school-children to be emphasised by drugs. smokers was comparable with that normally I realise that many parents are av; are of associated with people aged between 70 and this problem, but a lot of them need help. 90. The inquiry heard evidence that the and, while this legislation will do a lot, I chronic smoking of marijuana damaged the think it is up to this Government to promote lungs and respiratory systems 10 times faster the formation of drug advisory clinics in th~n did. t~e smoking of cigarettes, and I any of the areas of this State in which there thmk this IS a point that should be par­ is a known serious drug problem. ticularly noted. Chronic users-and these have been Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (4.59 p.m.): defined as anyone who uses the drug at least It was no surprise to see this legislation once . a week-also suffered a shift in per­ come before the Committee; \Ve vvere fore­ sonality. Some have changed from beino warned by the public statements of the Min­ interesting and self-activated to beincr with~ ister and also the publicity that was given drawn and given to disordered thinking. to the National Standing Control Committee The short-term memory is impaired and the on Drugs of Dependence. We were well attention span and ability to concentrate are aware that the penalties would be severe, reduced. Facial reflexes are impaired, and and we knew why. The analogy has been ~any users are characterised by pallid skin, drawn in this Chamber that we must liken mcreased eye movement and decreased facial the person who gets a young person hooked expression. I think anyone who has seen on drugs such as heroin unto a murderer. I someone under the influence of a drucr will do not think that any member of this recognise these symptoms. "' Assembly would doubt the accuracy of that analogy, because it is virtually creating a There is also a growing body of evidence living death. to show that conditioned personal responses Drug abuse is a problem in the community are affected. This is characterised in some users by the lessening of affection for their but its extent has always been the subject of parents and the lowering of their tolerances debate. However, it is a pity that when for the suggestions or thou"hts of others members make accusations in this Chamber This is of pa~ticular conce~n to parents: that are going to be meaningful to l!he Press When they realise that their children are on they do not substantiate them. I take the drugs it is often too late and they just can­ honourable member for Mourilyan to task not manage to get through to them. In for the comment that she made earlier that other words, young children have alienated whenever someone is in trouble, he or she themselves. They have withdrawn from simply contacts the Sydney University. ,I am society into their own limited group, who are sick and tired of people attacking tertiary usually also on drugs. A number of social institutes simply for the sake of attacking the responses are also impaired. There is a academics and those who live in the academic general tendency towards unkempt appear­ ivory tower, as it is often called. Members ance and a lessening of personal standards who make such comments should substantiate of hygiene and privacy. This, of course, is them. It ill behoves any member to make a rather common sight on our streets today. comments such as that, because I can see headlines in tomorrow's Press to the effect There has been a massive increase in the that h is the Sydney University which is amount of heroin, cocaine, opium and can­ behind the funding of all these people who nabis seized by narcotics agents in Australia are in trouble. If the honomable member did over the past year. The amount of opium have a brief given to her by the Minister Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2159

and she cannot substantiate the information doctors would be well aware, through their in it, then let the Minister substantiate the contacts with their own colleagues, of

Mr. Lane: Did he find Fourex better than I turn to the summary or conclusion of Mac's, or was Gold Top the best? this student, and I should like to quote from it. He said- Mr. WRIGHT: I assure the honourable "The survey also pointed out that there member that that was not the type of is a serious defect in the Education Depart­ survey he carried out. No doubt if he did, ment's policy on preparing young people he would come up with Brisbane Bitter, for a life in which alcohol and drugs which seems to be on the upward trend. present a major hazard. Some points made in that survey are very interesting in view of what has been said "Contrary to statements by the regional in this debate about education and the use co-ordinator on alcohol and drug educa­ of marijuana. Of the 380 people who were tion, that a great deal is being done in surveyed, 87 per cent said that legalisation of schools, this survey made it evident that marijuana is totally out, and only 13 per cent the department does not provide the type of the people said that it should be legalised. of education in this field that 88% of When it came to whether or not marijuana Rockhampton parents want for their should be sold at corner stores, 98 per cent children. said no and 2 per cent said yes. No doubt a "The Health Education Manual, Vol. 3, few users were involved in the survey. for Primary School teachers, Grade 7, has Question 7 was: Is there any drug educa­ one page on the subject of drug education. tion given at your child's school? This is Again, the fact that 32 out of 40 teachers what the Minister is talking about-the role believed that there should be more emphasis of Government in rehabilitation and educa­ on alcohol and drug education confirms tion. In this survey of 380 people in an the need for change." electorate, 34 per cent answered yes, 49 I reiterate that if the problem is to be per cent answered no and 17 per cent didn't overcome, it involves the imposition of heavy know. I believe that is an indictment on the penalties, it involves deterrents; it involves Government and on the education programme punishment of those who are caught-not that is being carried out. revenge, but punishment-and surely it I cast no a&persions on Reg Fitzpatrick, involves preparation by way of education of the local officer in Rockhampton, as I know young people to recognise the predicament he does a fantastic job. He is working the that they could be in if they use drugs. equivalent of 48 hours a day. He certainly At present a young person who uses drugs works his heart out; he has his heart in is faced not only with a severe monetary his job. That answer to the questionnaire penalty but also with a penalty by way of clearly points out that parents are not aware a stigma that attaches to him throughout the of any programme being carried out. There­ rest of his life. As we saw in a recent case fore, the programme is failing. involving teachers, a young public servant That is backed up by the teachers who who is convicted of a drug offence loses were surveyed. Thirty per cent of the teachers his career. A teacher, of course, has no who were interviewed said that there was hope whatever, because the Premier would a drug education programme in their school automatically sack him. There is no and 70 per cent answered no. So not only reprieve, no second chance, no appeal; he the parents but the teachers themselves virtu­ is gone. We are faced with the serious ally say that the drug education programme difficulty of whether the imposition of such which we have heard praised by Government a harsh penalty is the best deterrent. I members does not in fact exist. At least question whether the imposition of a penalty it certainly does not exist for 70 per cent is the only approach. of the teachers and 66 per cent of parents The law is aimed at the trafficker, the who either did not know or said that no person who is spreading this disease. I programme was going on. Asked whether suggest that it would be easier to catch the there should be such a !Programme in trafficker if the user could be induced to schools, 88 per cent of the parents said yes come forward. At present a user who does and 12 per cent said no. With the teachers come forward runs the risk of incurring a the breakdown was 80 per cent and 20 heavy penalty and of incurring social embar­ per cent. rassment not only for himself but for his These statistics are very important. They parents as well. I have suggested publicly, show that 92 per cent of parents believe that and I stand by my statements, that courts drug education should not be restricted to should be given the discretion to impose the home but that the Government has a lesser penalties, so that a user who either responsibility to publicise the results of the comes forward voluntarily or is apprehended excessive use of alcohol and drugs. But it and who gives information as to the identity would seem from the information provided of the trafficker, the pusher, can be freed by the person who carried out this study without having a severe penalty imposed on that this information is not available, that him. many people are not aware of what is going The trafficker is the one who poses the on, and that if there is a drug education most serious problem. As anyone who is programme in the schools it is a limited involved in combating the drug problem will one, and certainly it is not being made known confirm, it is very difficult to obtain informa­ to the parents. tion from the user. I am talking not of the Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2161

person who uses heroin and other hard drugs picture of Mafia-type operations. For my but of the one who uses marijuana. He is part, what I would like to do in this debate either not game or unwilling to identify the is ignore all of that, after having at least trafficker; he is afraid to become involved. expressed some personal concern about that The drug dependency group in Central sort of activity and registered my dis­ Queensland has given information about approval and condemnation of it. planes coming in and dropping drugs, about I wish to deal with some specifics in this a certain clothing store where a person, legislation and say a word or two about by saying a certain thing or by waiting for some concepts of Jaw and some principles a certain period, will be approached by the that are involved in this sort of thing. We proprietor and about a hotel where drugs have heard from the Minister that he intends can be obtained quite easily. However, to increase the penalties in the Act to a names are not forthcoming; people who substantial degree. I am sure we are all provide this information do not want to happy that he is doing just that. Some of become involved. Again I say that penalties us, however, want to ensure that what is imposed on users should be lessened. being done is fair to all sections of the com­ munity and that we do not overreach our­ I realise that what I am suggesting could selves in such legislation. backfire; nevertheless I think it is worth a try. We want to rid our State and nation of That part of the Bill in which I have the drug problem, and we will succeed most interest deals with trafficking in drugs. only if we can come to grips with the When one looks at the existing legislation, trafficker, the pusher. We will not succeed one finds the word "trafficking" is nowhere simply by imposing massive fines on drug defined; nor is it a word, as I understand users. it, that enjoys any legal usage. Therefore, one can but assume that the Minister was Finally, I wish to deal with the other referring to section 130 of the Act, which aspect of this legislation; that is, the regis­ relates to the selling or supplying of drugs. tration of persons carrying out pest control. If we want to get at the drug pedlar-or I have received numerous complaints from to use the Minister's colloquialism, the consumers both in Central Queensland and in trafficker-that is the section under which other parts of the State against what I it would be done. might term fly-by-night persons who, for We all know that the penalty presently very low cost, spray homes and business provided under that provision is a fine of premises, and then clear off. No-one knows $10,000, 10 years' imprisonment, or both. which products they are using. I believe This Bill seeks to increase that penalty to that a pest controller has the responsibility a fine of $100,000, a term of life imprison­ to advise the home owner or the landlord ment, or both. It is a course that I believe of the nature of the product that is being Governments should embark on very reluct­ used. A householder should be told that his antly. In legislating to impose terms of home is being sprayed with a certain product. life imprisonment, they should proceed with I conducted an investigation into the spray­ great slowness and great unwillingness ing of a home in my electorate and I found because it is a penalty that is almost irrevers­ that the owner had been charged $40 or ible. It falls just short of capital punishment. $50 to have his home sprayed with a mixture In this great country of ours, it should only that turned out to be nothing more than be after a great deal of serious consideration kerosene and water. and very deliberate decision that one would impose such a penalty on any human being. I support the imposition of these controls. I would ask the Minister to look into the The Government seeks to do that in this pest control industry. Persons engaged in instance. I know that its desire to do so it make it a practice to send out annual stems from a general concern about the accounts. They merely go along without per­ drug trade. However, I am concerned that mission, carry out their pest control process a penalty such as that should apply only to and then send an account. There should be people who traffic in drugs-who peddle an obligation on the pest control firm to drugs-and make a profit from that activity. enter into some kind of contract enabling I know that many members who talk in it to carry out pest eradication in a home. this Chamber about trafficking in drugs­ Simply because an operator has gone to a perhaps they read the section and see phrases home once, he should not be entitled to go such as selling or giving drugs-imagine some back again. We must have controls on that sort of conspiratorial element to that offence. sort of practice. I will give my information In fact, there is no such element detailed to the Minister in more detail, because he under that section of the existing legislation; be able to have some investigation car- nor is it a requirement or an element of the charge that there be conspiracy or any elem­ '"""'"''"'''~~xs,s:'"L out into it. ent of organisation behind the selling or Mr. LANE (Merthyr) (5.15 p.m.): It is giving of drugs. very easy in a debate such as this to tell The words used in that section are very emotional tales-tales about aircraft flying simple. I should like everybody in the com­ over remote parts of the State and dropping munity and in this Chamber to understand things from the air and boats from somewhere quite plainly and quite clearly what is or other coming ashore, and to paint a happening here. In future a person shall be 2162 Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

liable to a 'term of life imprisonment plus serious circumstances outlined in that sec­ a fine of $100,000 if he produces, prepares tion. For this reason the penalties are spec­ or manufactures a dangerous drug or ified as maximums. attempts to do so, or if he cultivates a pro­ Having now played out the role of the hibited plant or attempts to do so. I shall devil's advocate, I think it is probably proper stop at that point and describe some cir­ at this point of time that I shouid satisfy the cumstances ,to which that may pertain. For honourable member for Sandgate and dispel example, as marijuana is a prohibited plant, his concern by saying that I do support this if a person planted one single marijuana provision. I support the imposition of a term seed and attempted to cultivate it, he would of life imprisonment under this section and be liable to a term of life imprisonment. The I intend to vote for it. However, I should plant may not even grow, but the offence like all members to know what they are covers attempting to grow it. Let us be doing when they join me in voting for it. conscious that that is precisely what we are doing. The only reason for the imposition of penalties of this type is to provide a deter­ The section provides also that any person rent to the community generally against this shall not sell or give or supply any of these sort of conduct. Perhaps the fines are also dangerous drugs or attempt to do so. The imposed simply as a means of punishment. dangerous drugs include the reefer cigarette One wonders whether attempting to frighten or joint or however it may be described people away from the use of drugs is the these days. I shall stop at that point and only way to handle the problem. How effec· outline the minimum set of circumstances tive are attempts to frighten people away in which a person would fulfil all of the from smoking marijuana? I am sure we will elements of this particular charge and pos­ hear later from the Minister sCJmealth Paper drug commonly described as marijuana, he that was recently released. is guilty of 1his offence and is liable to a term of life imprisonment plus a fine of Mr. LANE: I am very pleased about that $100,000. That is what we are doing today. Health Paper. I have sent it to a number Even if the person to whom he attempts to of people who I thought would be interested hand that cigarette refuses it and the supplier in it and I have received a wonderful then throws it away, he is still guilty of the response. I read it with great interest and offence and is liable to life imprisonment. I should like to compliment the Minister on its production. In effect, the Bill is the steel If he has in his possession this marijuana hand in the velvet glove that complements cigarette (or perhaps some pep pills if he the education and rehabilitation programmes is a truck driver) for the purpose of giving provided by the department responsible for it to someone else, he is guilty. We could this legislation. imagine a set of circumstances in which a young girl was infatuated with a young pop Let us be very clear what we are doing. We star and he said to her, "Hold this reefer could, of course, mention the possibility of for me and give it to me later in the even­ young people finding themselves before the ing when I have finished my performance." court on charges of this nature, brought under section 130 of the Health Act, in Mr. Dean: Are you supporting the Bill or which a minimum amount of evidence is not? required and which are very simple to prove. In such cases there may be the suspicion that lVIr. LANE: If the honourable member many of us have had on occasions that the listens patiently, he will learn. I know that evidence, or at least one of its elements, has he has a very closed and narrow mind about been manufactured. The possibiiity of the these things and I shall try to expand it a imposition of a very heavy penalty at the a little today. conclusion of such a case is another reason why members should exercise caution in Mr. Dean: You will find it very difficult. supporting these provisions. Members should approach the matter with a great sense of lHr. LANE: Yes, he would find it extremely care, which is what I am now doing. I difficult. am going to such trouble and into such detail to demonstrate the need for caution The little girl holding the reefer or keep­ in dealing with this legislation. ing it in her handbag for the pop star with whom she is infatuated would be guilty of If the penalties referred to by the Minis­ the offence and would be liable to a maximum ter were to apply to the offence of being in term of imprisonment for life plus a fine possession of a dangerous drug, which is of $100,000. found in the other subsection of section 130 of the present Act, I personaliy would The existing section goes on in those oppose them. I can imagine all sorts of terms. As I said, it is very easy for us circumstances in which a person could find to imagine those fines pertaining to the mos·t himself in possession of a dangerous drug. Health Act [?lDECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2163

It could happen almost accidentally, and on persons who seek to operate as pest there is no element of intent in that section exterminators. A wide discretion is still of the legislation. It is not impossible that given to the Director-General, but at least a person could have an enemy who would some of the requirements are spelt out. plant drugs on him and thus subject him to a heavy fine. I have been concerned for some time that th8 Director-General should be required Of course, the Minister and his advisers to satisfy himself that a person applying ~ave very wisely chosen to have these penal­ for a licence to handle these types of ties apply to the second part of section 130 poisons should be a fit and proper person which, in broad terms, has been said to deal to hold such a licence. One would take with trafficking. I suppose that is a good that to mean that he must be a person word, because it encompasses all the elements of good fame and character. I have had and possibilities that have been spoken about an assurance from the Minister that that today. is in fact what is implied. This concerned .Another part of that section gives very me because exterminators entering people's wtde powers to the police with respect to homes have a great opportunity to case them d~taining people. In fact, they have very and perhaps come back at a later time Wlde powers of search, seizure, and arrest. to illegally enter them. So it is important I am not av;are of any other legislation in that people who are granted a licence should this Stare which gives as much absolute not have a criminal history of any sort, power to the police as section 130 of the whether as burglars, housebreakers or sex ~ealth Act where it applies to drugs. It offenders. It is important that, when a IS only necessary for a police officer or woman allows an operator into her home some person authorised by the Director­ in the middle of the day and is alone with General-and I hope the Director-General him. she knows his background has been would exercise the greatest caution when checked out. I would ask the Minister authorising people-to reasonably suspect a and the Director-General to ensure that, person of having in his possession any of before pest controllers are registered, their the dangerous drugs stipulated in the Act background is checked with the Police and he can detain that person forthwith Department to see that they do not have take him into custody (physically, if neces~ any history of sex offences, violence or ~ary), search that person (against his will, assaults, stealing or anything of that nature. 1f necessary) and, of course search the Their names should be cleared; they should building he is in or search the' motor-car in not be taken at face value. which he might happen to be travelling. He (Time expired.) has the power to seize anything he has upon him and forthwith to arrest that person Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (5.36 p.m.): Any without warrant. amendment of the Health Act that will assist Those are very wide powers indeed and, in combating this dreadful scourge in the as l say, I know of nowhere else where community, the illegal trafficking in drugs, is it is laid down-not even in relation to welcomed by every member of this Assembly some of the most dastardly offences men­ and virtually everyone outside. I am sure tioned in tte Criminal Code-that the police that all honourable members feel very sorry shall ha\e such powers, and certainly depart­ mdeed for drug addicts, because we have all mental office::s do not have such powers. met these unfortunate people from time to time in the course of our duties. These poor I hope that the courts will, even with derelicts in the community who have been this sectic11 as it stands at present, exer­ brought to such a low level of health by cise great discretion when imposing these drug traffickers are indeed a pitiable sight. penalties. because there are some poor, sick, befuddled people in the community whose As I understand it, the Bill is aimed mainly at the drug trafficker and not at the s~n.s~s have deteriorated and whose respon­ stbtl!ty m respect of their actions is addict. That is the impression I gained from diminished and who are more properly in the Minister's introductory speech; I hope I need of treatment or rehabilitation than am correct in saying that. I am pleased to harsh penalties. see the Minister acknowledging that it is aimed at the drug trafficker. The other sections of the Bill to which I would like to make some reference relate In my opmwn, penalties for drug to the control of pest exterminators. I traffickers can never be too heavy and life congratulate the Minister on introducing this imprisonment is not enough. I would send legislation in this new form. On a prior the trafficker to gaol for the term of his occasion there were those of us who were natural life. He should be kept away from concerned about the way these controls were the community for the rest of his days. In to be laid down. At that time an absolute places such as Singapore he would not even discretion-and in fact I thought a blind dis­ get that opportunity. His life would be cretion-was given to the Director-General taken from him because he has taken the in that controls on pest exterminators were lives of many other people. laid down by regulation. Under this Bill People who have more experience in this the Minister has set out most of the con­ great evil than I have tell me that the drug trols and '.Ve can read about the requirements trafficker does not take drugs himself. He is 2164 Health Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

the agent, the exploiter; he is the real evil­ "'We catch a lot of kids because they're doer in the field of drugs. He is in a large experimenting with drugs. But what's the commercial business, and $100,000 would be good of catching 1000 youngsters in this only a flea-bite to a racketeer of that type. category, while we're missing the top 20 At the most, life imprisonment is only 15 men in the racket?' " years, and I think that traffickers should be imprisoned for the term of their natural life. That is how I started my speech off. The main culprits, the main evil-doers in this We are told from time to time by people terrible scourge are the men at the top-­ who ought to know that the entry of drugs the men who are entering into a highly to this country is completely out of hand. commercialised racket. That statement i~ made by officers of the Department of Customs, who have the The newspaper article continued- responsibility of trying to prevent drugs "He said the drug evil in Queensland entering the country. Let me refer briefly was a 'multi-million-dollar business'." to an article that appeared in "The Sunday Mail" of 27 June this year. It said- That is frightening. It went on- "Drug Squad policemen yesterday said "It could spend big money on evading they were 'going backwards' against an the Jaw. But the Jaw could not match this evil increasing at about 25 per cent a with equal effort because it was being year, because they lacked manpower, cramped financially." money and facilities." I hope that our own State instrumentalities I hope that the proposed Bill will make it will co-operate with the Commonwealth auth­ possible to provide the Drug Squad with orities so that this Bill will go a long way more men and material to combat the illegal towards solving the problem. entry of drugs into this country and to con­ Our priorities could well be questioned. trol and eventually eliminate those that do As great an evil as the use of cannabis or get in. hard drugs may be, there is another evil to Dr. Edwards: That is a Commonwealth be considered. I was particularly struck by matter. a letter that was written by Professor Whitlock, a professor of psychiatry at the Mr. DEAN: Yes, it really is a Common­ Queensland University. In that letter of wealth matter. Nevertheless, I am sure that 27 July last Professor Whitlock said- the State Drug Squad will co-operate closely "In contrast, I have never seen casual­ with the Commonwealth Customs officers. ties resulting from driving under the It is worth noting that the article continued- influence of cannabis, although I willingly "They claimed that drugs from Indo­ concede that such a practice is both dan­ nesia were being landed at lonely North gerous and contrary to law. Queensland places." "Fifty per cent of the 90,000-odd persons That has been mentioned already in the killed and injured each year on Australian debate. The article continued- roads were probably the result of drunken "They also said: driving. • Drugs were being brought in from "One need hardly labour the point as overseas and dropped into the sea off the facts are plain for anyone who is North Queensland. willing to examine them." * Police were catching 'kids' for using That is very true. Alcohol is a drug; we drugs. But they were missing the men know it is a drug. Alcohol should be regarded at the top, who included Brisbane busi­ as part of the present-day drug menace; but ness men." we seem to encourage the use of alcohol. Indeed, we are approaching the season when That is an alarming statement to read in a it will be particularly encouraged and smiled newspaper, but there must be some basis upon as a social event. Unfortunately the for it. word "drug" is never used when talking The article continued- about alcohol. I know the Minister's senti­ "One Drug Squad man said: 'All we're ments on the matter and what he feels about doing is pinching kids for drug offences. this great evil of alcohol-taking. I hope that This is practically useless as long as the during his ministership he will do what big men who run the racket are getting I have been asking for for years and add away with it. alcohol to the list of drugs. I am not con­ doning the use of cannabis or drug-taking " 'We're restricted in funds and facil­ in any other form, but I feel sure that ities. We could do with more men, too, we are missing the bus when we deliberately but if we could get more funds, we could ignore the evils of alcohol in the community. do things. " 'Marijuana is being grown in the Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Min­ North, around Cairns and on the Ather­ ister for Health) (5.44 p.m.), in reply: I ton Tableland. The drug racketeers are thank honourable members for their con­ importing LSD, heroin and cocaine from tribution. It was very interesting to hear overseas. the wide range of opinion on drugs. I will Nursing Studies Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Nursing Studies Bill 2165

not take up the time of the Committee in mentioned today in which nurses also pro­ replying individually to honourable mem­ vide an important and valuable service to bers. I will do that at the second-reading the community. stage. Care of patients in our psychiatric hospi­ Motion (Dr. Edwards) agreed to. tals is another avenue of nursing requiring Resolution reported. special expertise. It will be a prime responsibility of the Board of Nursing Studies to advise the Min­ FIRST READING ister on developments in nursing education Bill presented and, on motion of Dr. and training necessary to meet the needs Edwards, read a first time. and demands of this State. The board will also recommend the mini­ NURSING STUDIES BILL mum requirements to be established for entry to nursing courses and will approve SECOND READING the content of courses conducted in accredited schools of nursing. I have already Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minister advised honourable members that the em­ for Health) (5.46 p.m.): I move- phasis in nursing courses will continue to be on clinical experience and training and "That the Bill be now read a second patient-care programmes. time." The board will keep nursing education in During the introductory stage I gave an out­ this State under continuous review and will line of the major provisions of the proposed co-ordinate courses conducted by accredited legislation. I also advised honourable mem­ schools of nursing. The board will also bers of the changing trends in nursing prac­ determine the standard to be reached by tice that made it absolutely essential to re­ students for the award of a certificate, view nurse education procedures. degree or diploma and will determine the The Board of Nursing Studies to be estab­ assessment procedures to be followed. lished by this legislation will ensure that the The functions of the board have been nurse of tomorrow is equipped with the know­ clearly established in the Bill and where ledge necessary to meet the increasing de­ necessary provision exists for regulations to mands being made on the nursing profession. be made to give effect to these functions. This statement in no way reflects on .the outstanding work done by present members I want to have recorded in "Hansard" the of the nursing profession, who by their Government's intention that the Board of extreme diligence and dedication have always Nursing Studies alone will be the body by given the best of nursing attention to patients which the education programmes in nursing in their care. will be determined. As I indicated at the introductory stage, negotiations regarding the Modern methods and technology, how­ development of nursing education program­ ever, have changed considerably the original mes at the colleges of advanced education, nursing concept of tender loving care. It the institutes of technology and the univer­ is essential that our education programmes in sities will be under the control of the Board Queensland be able to keep abreast of these of Nursing Studies. It is the Government's developments in order that our nurses con­ policy that the board will lay down minimum tinue to provide the highest standard of requirements and the course will be de­ safe nursing practice. veloped by the colleges and institutes, sub­ ject to final approval by the board. I want One must not lose sight of the role played it clearly understood that that is the Gov­ by nurses in the community apart from the ernment's intention. hospital situation. In Queensland for many years, nurses employed by the Maternal and At the introductory stage, the honourable Child Health Service and School Health member for Nudgee spoke of employment Service have played an important role in opportunities for girls in country towns. It providing advice and assistance to the must be appreciated that the number of mothers and children of this State. patients in an average country hospital does not provide a student nurse with the clinical More recently we have seen nurses in­ content necessary for her training, particularly volved in the community in caring for the in surgical and maternity procedures. For aged and invalid in their homes and provid­ this reason it was necessary to phase out ing support to families. In recent years many hospitals as training schools for general under the Aboriginal Health Programme, nurses. nursing teams have travelled throughout this State undertaking a preventative medicine Opportunity exists at most country hos­ programme. pitals, however, for girls to undertake a training programme with a view to becoming I have given those few examples in order an enrolled nurse. The enrolled nurse is that honourable members might understand a trained member of the health team and that the role of the modern nurse covers has an important role to play. People have, many aspects apart from the hospital situa­ in the past, considered that the nursing tion. There are many other categories not aide, the title previously used, did only the 2166 Nursing Studies Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Nursing Studies Bill menial and dirty tasks. This is not the case, Now that honourable members have had and must not be accepted by this Parliament time to peruse the Bill, I am sure they will or by the people. will agree it has no contentious provisions The Board of Nursing Studies will also be and can only serve to maintain the very high responsible for the education of enrolled standards that we have come to expect of nurses, and I urge people in country centres our nurses in this State. who do not wish to leave home to pursue I commend the Bill to the House. a nursing career to consider undertaking the prescribed training programme for an enrolled nurse at their local hospital. I am sure they !VIr. BURNS (LyHon-Leader of the will find it opens up an interesting and Opposition) (5.54 p.m.): We agree with the challenging career for them. Minister that the Bill contains a large number of machinery clauses associated with the During the introductory debate, several setting up of the board and the tenure of members spoke on the concept of nursing office of the members of the board, as well education moving into colleges of advanced as the manner of dealing with vacancies on education, and particular mention was made the board and so on. We do not have any of the Queensland Institute of Technology. I objection at all to the legislation. We have have previously indicated that this transition not received any complaints from any section from the traditional hospital training pro­ of the nursing profession, or in fact from gramme will not happen immediately but that anyone at all in the medical profession. Under it is provided for in the Bill. Any college those circumstances, we do not intend to take of advanced education or any institute what­ up the time of the House. We support the ever will be at liberty to approach the board Minister's statement, and hope the high stand­ to seek accreditation to undertake a nursing ards that have been maintained by the nurses education programme. It must be emphasised of this State are improved by the legislation again that they must seek accreditation for -by the education programme-and that the such programme. The Board will examine nurses, by being represented on the Board the college's or institute's proposal and will of Nursing Studies and in other areas, will make its recommendation to the Minister for be able to ensure that the pmfession goes Health as to whether accreditation should be ahead from strength to strength. granted. I would like to stress again that the Dr. LOCKWOOD (Toowoomba North) introduction of a nursing education pro­ gramme to these institutes will in no way (5.55 p.m.): In rising to speak on the second break down the present high standards of reading of the Nursing Studies Bill I should nurse education in Queensland. Respons­ like firstly to thank the Minister for Health ibility will rest with the Board of Nursing for the introductions that he arranged for me Studies to ensure that the courses in these to visit hospitals and Health Departments teaching institutions, as in any other accred­ during my overseas trip in August this year, ited school of nursing, are of the prescribed when I studied extensively the nursing sys­ content and standard laid down by the Board tems in Canada. of Nursing Studies. Nurses everywhere agree that a nursing The honourable member for Salisbury course must be intensely practical; it must be mentioned the interchange of nurses between a practical course with a great deal of prac­ States. The acceptance of qualifications from tical experience and it must not be, and other States and countries is a matter for must never be allowed to become, a course determination by the Nurses Registration in which a whole host of facts are offered Board of Queensland under separate legisla­ in an educational programme. If we ever tion, which I introduced into the Chamber allow a nursing course to degenerate into an earlier this afternoon. educational programme, our health services as we know them will suffer severely and I Under the two Bills now printed, the think we can see great harm and danger destiny of nursing and the future of nursing coming to patients from persons who have in Queensland will be placed firmly in the only an education without the necessary hands of the nursing profession, and I am practical experience to back it up. absolutelv confident that those nurses who serve either on the Board of Nursing Studies There was much debate on whether uni­ or as members of the Registration Board­ versities or colleges should come into the or indeed in the profession in general-will education of nurses. There is a wealth of rise to the challenge, as it has done in the overseas information where universities and past, and I look forward with great anticipa­ colleges have been running nursing courses tion to the results of these legislative pro­ since the 1920s. The University of Alberta cedures. has had a School of Nursing since 1923. As I indicated in my speech at the intro­ First of all it was a three-year diploma ductory stage, many of the provisions of course in nursing. Later on it was a this Bill are of a machinery nature relative five-year course to obtain the degree of to appointment of board members and pro­ Bachelor of Science in nursing. Between cedures relative to the operation of the board. 1954 and 1966 they ran into problems with During these remarks I have covered the main the five-year university course-it was run functions of the board in its guidance of in the university hospital-and they cut i·t nursing education in the future. back to four years. The bachelor degree Nursing Studies Bill (7 DECEMBER 1976] Nursing Studies Bill 2167

in Alberta is a degree in a nursing education There are places in this country where programme; it is not a training programme nurses are providing a great deal of pvimary at all. medical care as well as nursing care. One of They have many professors. The House the ways of coping with this situation, which might be interested to know for instance is found in some remote parts of the State, is that they have professors of nursing, admin­ to expand the role of nurses. Th,is would istration, maternal and child health, com­ mean extending the four-year course of train­ munity health, medical surgical nursing and ing to what has become known as the nurse community education; assistant professors practitioner or medical assistant. Training for nurse practitioner programmes, nursing of this type in the United States ranges from fundamentals, nursing for mental health, three months for nurse practitioners up to advanced practical obstetrics, and anatomy; two years. Jt is an intensive course, 50 per cent theory and 50 per cent practical, and it and associate professors coming in for mic­ equips nurse practitioners or physicians' robiology, physiology, sociology, elementary assistants to carry out a wide range of duties education and other paramedical subjects. of their own volition. They use their own I think all honourable members would knowledge, experience and expertise without realise that this is not the course that nurses reference to a physician. in this country have undergone, nor should I commend to the Assembly consideration it be what we aim to have all of our nurses of every poss,ible way of developing nurses undertake. The nursing programme at that of this calibre in this country as quickly as university has four times as many applicants possible. Such nurses could be used in the as vacancies. It is subjected to intense pre-natal, maternal and child welfare and pre­ competition for places and any financial school areas. They could be allowed to treat squeeze of course severely affects that pro­ minor ailments and injuries. Where cases gramme. were beyond their experience and scope, they As well, there is a nine-month course for could refer them to a physician. Some nurses nursing aides. This aspect has grown mark­ who are virtually nurse practitioners are edly in that country as well as in this. The already practising in this country as bush role of the nursing aide is increasing year by nurses. They have consultations and they year. carry out primary care, suturing of minor Also in Alberta there is a four-year train­ wounds and the treatment of a whole range ing scheme in various hospitals. This leads of ailments, without reference to a doctor. us to the nex,t problem. There is intense When they find that they need expert advice, competition for the right to have access to they get in touch with a doctor by telephone patients. This is one problem that will have or mdio to seek his advice and ascertain if it to be thoroughly ironed out by our nursing is safe for them to treat the patient further education board as to who is io have what without reference to a doctor. access to which patients. All protagonists In Canada, registered nurses undergo an of a nursing course run by a university or 18 to 20-week course and are then ready to college of advanced education should realise fill the role of nurse practitioner in remote that students will be at the very bottom of areas where doctors could not be gainfully the list of priorities for patient access. Either employed. Whereas one nurse may be will find its students going to the smallest engaged at a bush nursing centre in Aus­ hospitals in the State begging for the right tralia, in Canada there are two and some­ of access to a patient in a hospital bed. The times three in a comparable situation. These students in the large hospitals will have the nurses treat patients. They examine them as best access. This is what happened in far as is necessary. They are capable of Canada. carrying out a full clinical examination. If [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] they find that they cannot treat a complaint, they refer the patient to a doctor. Dr. LOCKWOOD: Before the dinner recess I was discussing some of the problems I think it is necessary at this stage to that lie ahead in the field of nursing educa­ spell out clearly the educational requirements tion. The education faciHties must be such for the various levels of nursing. I think a that we can train nurses in sufficient numbers 16-year-old, with the equivalent of the old to cope with all the problems facing our com­ Junior certificate, could be admitted to train­ munity today. And I think there should be ing as a nursing aide. Those with the equi­ a margin over and above that so that some valent of the Senior certificate should be assistance oan be offered to developing admitted for training as registered nurses, nations by allowing people from those coun­ and I think that if a nursing aide shows par­ tries to study under our system. In the various ticular skills and apt,itudes, she should be hospitals and colleges (if the training of nur­ encouraged to go through a course of ses is to be undevtaken in colleges), places education to enable her to enter for formal should be kept for overseas students, par­ training. I think there needs to be a system ticularly from the developing countries to the devised for exchanging a fully hospital­ immediate north and in the Paoific. This trained sister and a teritiary-trained sister on would allow their nurses to have access to completion of her course. There needs to be our training progvammes and so take back to full exchange of cred~ts where this is done, their countries the skill and expertise already and I think this would greatly allay a number possessed by our own nurses. of fears held by our hospital-trained nurses 2168 Nursing Studies Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Nursing Studies Bill

about their future standing in this country standard of expertise and practice in the if the colleges with their courses do in administration and application of practical faot become the major source of trained skills gives an indication of how far nurses nurses. can go in those other fields of nursing skills. Physicians' assistant courses are now run­ ning in almost all States in the United States. I feel that Queensland should aim to deve­ There are about 50-odd programmes. These lop these skills so that they can be used people are returned servicemen who were widely throughout the State to help in ser­ capable of treating men in the field for a vicing areas where is is difficult to main­ great many ailments and injuries. Hon­ tain medical practitioners. I hope that the ourable members should be aware that some roles of the colleges in all the major centres were capable of doing a great many major in Queensland, and certainly in Toowoomba, surgical procedures in emergencies before are clearly 8pelt out. I hope our Darling medical men could take over. They were Downs Institute of Advanced Education capable of amputation, all sorts of very approaches the board-as soon as it is heavy surgical procedures and all forms constituted-to play its part in furthering of resuscitation skills. They were used nursing education in the Toowoomba General widely in Korea and Vietnam. On their Hospital and St. Vincent's Hospital in return to the United States a number of Toowoomba. men felt that these experts, and experts they were in primary medical care, should However, I hope that the Darling Downs not be lost, and they have been put through Institute of Advanced Education sends its courses and are registered in each of the lecturers to the hospitals, because I should States. They can, under the guidance of hate to see nurses fully trained at such an and through association with a physician, institute. In my opinion colleges of advanced treat common illnesses. They can follow education, with their semester system, cannot chronic illnesses and they can take over provide adequate training for nurses. Trainee much of the load of a physician or a nurses will have to be in a hospital 24 hours general practitioner. a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year. The long vacation in colleges of advanced They are capable of doing full medicals education and universities would render train­ such as insurance-type medicals, and they are ing courses within their walls completely certainly capable of carrying out far more useless. procedures than we would imagine, and perhaps the medical associations might care I commend the Minister for introducing to admit. They do need to be supervised the Bill, and in the years to come I hope by a physician, who could perhaps be in to see instituted all the things I have the next room. A physician could have mentioned. perhaps two or three of these persons associ­ ated with him. This might sound a ter­ Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (7.26 p.m.): Having ribly far-fetched idea, but it is definitely seen the Bill, I have not changed my mind working in the United States. It is well about its desirability or the beneficial effect supported in country areas and in those that it will have on the nursing profession. fast-expanding suburbs where medical care Its provisions are necessary and it will is often very hard to reach. I believe this contribute to the improvement of nursing would be one of the ideal extensions of a standards in this State. four-year nursing course. The functions of the board as set out in When speaking in another debate I said the Bill indicate the whole import of the that I felt nurses could easily become chiro­ Bill itself. By its control, the board will podists. I know this upset some members; ensure that the standard of nursing is such nevertheless, that would be a much simpler that our hospitals will be able to function conversion than becoming a physician. I efficiently; it will also ensure that the interests think eventually nurses at the top of their of the nurses themselves are well protected. profession might see themselves becoming The board has five functions that I think selective nurses, not only going into nurse are very important. The first of these is education and nurse administration as we to advise the Minister, either of its own have at present but also becoming nurse motion or at his request, on developments in practitioners in general medicine and nursing education and training and with paediatrics. respect to the needs of the State in that We have quite a number who are nurse regard. That is the guts of the matter-the practitioners now in the fields of eye, ortho­ needs of the State in the field of nursing. paedic and chest surgery, and perhaps the If these are properly catered for as indicated oldest skill of nurse practitioners is mid­ in the Bill, the board's administration will wifery. The midwife had, of course, been make a very important contribution to improv­ practising her trade for centuries and cen­ ing the standards of nursing in Queensland. turies before medicine was ever even dreamt Another of the board's functions is to of. They were capable of managing the recommend to the Minister m1mmum most complex confinements without a doc­ standards in nursing courses. Again we see tor's help so long as surgery was not required, the importance of the strict control of the and certainly I think the midwives and their training of nurses in Queensland that the Nursing Studies Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Constitution Act Amendment Bill 2169

Bill envisages. There are several other func­ The honourable member for Nudgee sup­ tions of the board relating to standards and ported the Bill, and I thank him for that to entry requirements for the nursing pro­ support. I agree with him that without a fession. As I said earlier, there have been shadow of doubt this Bill could become the times when some young girls have gone forerunner of similar legislation throughout nursing as a last resort, but I think that Australia. I base that on information that the profession will now draft its own safe­ has come to me from interstate. As recently guards in this respect. We cannot have the as today we had inquiries from New Zealand remnants of society entering a very important about this matter. The Government can be profession such as nursing, and we must very proud of the legislation it has brought make sure that those who enter the pro­ down. I believe the honourable member's fession are mentally and psychologically statement that our standard of nursing will capable of carrying out the duties of nurses. not be excelled by any other State is indeed true. The board's function of ensuring that the entry standards are high is of great impor­ Motion (Dr. Edwards) agreed to. tance, and the accreditation of schools of nursing is also very important. The Bill COMMITTEE seems to cover that very thoroughly. I (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) mention particularly the right of inspectors, acting on behalf of the board, to enter Clauses 1 to 26, both inclusive, as read, schools of nursing and ensure that the agreed to. required standards are being maintained. Bill reported, without amendment. With the assistance of the provisions of this Bill we should have a standard of nursing that will not be excelled by any other State in Australia. I do not want CONSTITUTION ACT AMENDMENT to go through the Bill to any great extent, BILL but after perusing it I feel that it is a most desirable piece of legislation that will SECOND READING make a great contribution to the profession Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah of nursing in Queensland. -Premier) (7.35 p.m.): I move- "That the Bill be now read a second Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minis­ time." ter for Health) (7.31 p.m.), in reply: I believe that this Bill is one of the most I thank honourable members for the way in important pieces of legislation in the field of which the Bill has been received and the nurse education that this Parliament has support that has been given to it. It was, passed for many years and I thank honour­ however, criticised by one or two Opposition able members for their very worthy contri­ members. The honourable member for butions both at the introductory stage and Archerfield was quite honest and straight­ at this stage. forward in his criticism of it; he did not beat about the bush. He said he did not As I indicated at the introductory stage, I believe in the monarchy and is on record should like to place on record the contribu­ in "Hansard" as expressing his belief in a tions made by many people, including the republic. His attitude is, of course, typical three nursing sisters who were seconded to of the A.L.P.'s policy and platform, which my department for three or four months and has been espoused by many prominent mem­ the many nurses throughout the State who bers of the A.L.P., not only in Queensland made submissions. As a result of these but also in other States. Perhaps 'the member efforts we have been able to frame legisla­ for Archerfield thinks that he will be first tion that is totally acceptable to the profes­ in hopping onto the republican band wagon. sion, and, from statements made by honour­ able members, acceptable to the Parliament. The Leader of the Opposition, on the other hand, was not quite so frank. I might The Leader of the Opposition supported say that his attitude was somewhat hypo­ the Bill, and I appreciate his support on critical. He went along with the Bill and this very important matter. The honourable was in favour of the position held by the member for Toowomba North made com­ Governor. However, if we cast our minds ments about not allowing nursing courses to back to 16 October 1975 we will recall that become an education programme. That is the Honourable Thomas J ames Burns the whole object of the Bill. The emphasis petitioned Her Majesty seeking the revoca­ will be placed on the control of nurse educa­ ·tion of the commission appointing Sir Colin tion by the Board of Nursing Studies. He Hannah as Governor of Queensland and the also mentioned nurse practitioners. That removal of Sir Colin from office. must always be regarded as an extension of nursing but not as a substitute for medical Sir Colin Hannah is a man who has served practice. Nurses have played a very import­ this State and country exceedingly well and ant role, particularly in country hospitals one whom I and the people of Queensland where we have appointed many who have generally hold in the highest esteem. Every­ been able to undertake a very important one, even the Leader of the Opposition and role. the members of his party, should look up to 70 2170 Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976) Amendment Bill him. However, they do not. Furthermore, places around Australia that I was playing they have been quite outspoken in their con­ politics, that I was kite-flying and that I demnation of Her Majesty's representative in was saying things that are not true, that the Australia, Sir John Kerr. The Leader of British Government would not do a thing the Opposition and his colleagues fought to like that, that it would not go against the have Sir John Kerr removed from office and wishes of the Government of a nation­ to denigrate and belittle the office held by of Queensland-that it would not go against him. the wishes of the people of Queensland and The supporters of the Leader of the their elected representatives. I want to say Opposition and his colleagues have wrecked right here that it is completely true and it two Rolls Royce cars in Melbourne and have is an indisputable fact. ridiculed Sir John Kerr on many occasions. Mr. McKechnie: They didn't complain They have even attempted to molest him. I about Mark Oliphant. say, "Shame on the Leader of the Oppo­ sition." By his attitude he has clearly dem­ Mr. B.JELKE-PETERSEN: No. None onstrated that he and his colleagues would of their colleagues would complain about like to see Australia become a republic. the way they treated Her Majesty's repre­ sentative, Sir John Kerr. But the truth We know the result of the petition pre­ must come out. The people must know sented by the Leader of the Opposition. exactly what the situation is and why we Similarly, we know what happened when are in the present situation on the issue that the Prime Minister took up this matter in has been debated so freely in the Press. London after the petition had been pre­ sented. I visited London and spent an hour As it became known that Sir Colin would with Lord Goronwy-Roberts, a Minister obviously no longer be our Governor after responsible for foreign affairs, and discussed his term of office runs out early in the New with him the whole matter of the honourable Year, certain statements were being made. member's petition to revoke the commission These obvious attempts to hide the situation appointing Sir Colin Hannah as Governor. necessitated that I make clear to the people I have to admit that, after that discussion exactly what has happened. with the Minister, it was quite clear that he In speaking to the motion for the intro­ had no intention whatever of changing his duction of these important legislative pro­ Government's decision. It was obviously a visions affecting the Constitution Act of political decision coming from a political Queensland, I made a number of points colleague here in Australia. which I believe should be repeated during the Naturally in all these circumstances Sir second-reading stage of the Bill. Colin Hannah does not want to continue to Having now had the opportunity of study­ hold the position of Governor of this State. ing the Bill in detail, honourable members Mr. Ahern: He is an honourable man. will observe the five important principles of the legislation which I mentioned during the introductory stages. The background of this Mr. B.JELKE-PETERSEN: He certainly Bill has been widely researched during the is. He has fought for this nation in time of past year or so as a result of decisions taken war and he has also done his utmost for by the Government reflecting upon the threat it in time of peace. to the integrity of the State which we per­ Anyone who attempts to denigrate him ceived developing during the Whitlam era in is stooping to very low depths indeed. Canberra. As part of this research the Obviously Sir Colin does not wish me to Minister for Justice and Attorney-General­ say anything about it. However, I am my good friend and colleague Mr. Lickiss determined that the Leader of the Opposition -accompanied by the Parliamentary Coun­ and his colleagues will not go scot-free. As sel, visited the U.K. to complete the pro­ I say, the people of Queensland hold His cesses of research and drafting. Excellency in the highest esteem. The people Let me recall again that our Constitution of Queensland must know the truth and Act is dated 1867 and that, when Queens­ must know who is responsible for the present land combined with the other Australian position. That is why I say, "Shame on colonies in federating to form the Common­ the Leader of the Opposition and his col­ wealth of Australia in 1900, no attention leagues who are so vocal." They are hypo­ was paid to the basic questions concerning critical, for on the one hand they try to the constitution as part of the Executive make out that they support the position, Government and as part of the Legislatures while on the other hand, as we see through in both the Commonwealth and the States. their attitude ·to Sir John Kerr and others, That has proved to be a big gap in the they are not at all in support of such a written constitution-a gap through which policy and such a position. Mr. Whitlam thought he could figuratively Mr. Go!eby: They want a dollar each way. drive a bulldozer. As a leading textbook published around Mr. B.JELKE-PETERSEN: Yes, but after the time of the federation said- I have made this statement and I have made "Much therefore that is at the very the position clear, they will not be able 1o. root of the constitutions of our self­ There have been editorials today in different governing colonies is unwritten, though Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill 2171

it is none the less constitutional because The British Government does not wish the its origin lies in a practice which is embarrassment of being made subject to nowhere formally recorded, and which demands by the Commonwealth Government develops new rules in the course of years". which go against the wishes of the States. Yet such demands have been made. We (H. Jenkyns, page 59, "British Rule and Juris­ hope that we can relieve the British Govern­ diction Beyond the Seas"). One looks in vain ment of any future embarrassment by mak­ in our Constitution Act of 1867 and in the ing it clear that the Queen is an integral part Constitution of 1900 of the Commonwealth of the Legislature of Queensland and the for any clear statement concerning the funda­ office of Governor is provided for in our mental position of the Crown and the office of the Governor. own Constitution Act. That is what we are doing in this measure. For the first 70 years of Australian con­ The British Government will remain for stitutional development, the Executive was a time a channel of communication to the not subject to parliamentary control. The Queen and even if the Westminster Parlia­ Governor was appointed by the Crown, and ment 'were to repeal the various Acts of the officers of the Government were appointed Parliament which cover the office of Gov­ by him or even by the Secretary of State for ernor, that channel of communication would the Colonies. That made them subordinate still be retained by virtue of our own con­ to both the Governor and the British Gov­ stitution, if necessary. ernment. Following the Imperial Act of 1855 on the Australian Constitutions, it was I want to emphasise that we are changing recognised that Ministers could not hold nothing; what we are doing is ~riting that office without the support of Parliament and which has hitherto been unwntten. In were liable to retire if they lost that support. doing so we are making the present. sit~­ ation more understandable and protectmg It It was also recognised that the Governor from being undermined. would exercise his powers of appointment Members will see that the Bill has a and dismissal of Ministers and of assenting lengthy preamble. This sets ol!t the essence to Bills by reference to his instructions. of the present situation respecting the office As an officer of the Imperial Government of Governor. he could exercise the powers of the Crown The Bill then goes on to make amendments without the advice of Queensland Ministers to the Constitution Act of 1867 by pro­ in matters of imperial rather than of local vidina for a clear definition of Parliament concern. The power of reserving Bills for as c;nsisting of the Queen and the Legis­ the personal assent of the sovereign was lative Assembly. thought to be one of these imperial powers. The Bill then acknowledges that the Gov­ ernor is the Queen's representative in. this Much that was unclear about the exercise State and defines him as the person appomted, of the royal prerogative in the days before as he always has been, by the Queen's fed.;ration became clearer as a result of personal signature. This means that he can­ decisions in the courts making deductions not be appointed by the Governor-General, from the doctrine of responsible Government. even if that function were to be delegated It was held, for example, that the con­ to the Governor-General. The Governor will stitutional Act of the colonial Parliament exercise his existing powers of assenting to was the sole source of the constitutional legislation. The Governor is to conform rights of self-government and that the to the Queen's instructions in the matter Governor, acting on the advice of colonial of assenting to Bills or reserving them. Ministers, was invested with the necessary executive power to perform all Acts neces­ The present instruction~ ~ere issu~d by sary for the Government of the colony. letters patent in 1925 and It IS not ~nvtsaged That was an essential step in transferring that they will be changed. . The J?Ill make~ the source of constitutional power from it impossible for any such mstructwns to be Whitehall to the colony, and it occurred issued in the future under the hand of the even before federation. Governor-General, even if he were empow­ ered to do this by the Queen and even if What was left unclear at the time of the imperial legislation presently covering federation was whether States would have this matter were ever to be repealed. In the same access as the Commonwealth to these matters the Bill is carefully drafted the sovereign. The States continued to use so as to mirror the provisions of existing the Secretary of State for the Colonies imperial Acts. This is because this Parlia­ as the channel of communication to the ment has no power to enact legislation King after 1900 that they had to the Queen repugnant to these imperial Acts. Should before 1900. The Commonwealth, however, the imperial Acts be rep~ale_d, th~n the gained direct access to him with the deve­ provisions in our own constitutiOn Will sub­ lopment of a concept of dominion status. stitute for them. The fact that the Queen could now be The Bill also provides that Ministers are advised by Commonwealth of Australia to hold office at the pleasure of the Governor, Ministers while State Ministers could not which means, of course, that the Governor advise her. even in essentially State matters, will appoint them and dismiss them accord­ has been the source of our worries in recent ing to the conventions of responsible years, as all honourable members know. Government. 2172 Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill

The Bill provides that in acting to appoint measure which will meet with the whole­ or dismiss Ministers the Governor may hold hearted approval of the people of Queens­ such consultations or cake such advice as he land and wm attract a great deal of interest sees fit, and that he shall not be subject to among the parliamentarians and people of the directions of any person whatsoever. other States of Australia and overseas. That excludes the possibility of his ever I commend the Bill to the House. being directed by the Governor-General or by the Prime Minister, or, for that matter, by the Premier of Queensland or any other per­ son, although it does not exclude the possi­ DISTINGUISHED VISITORS bility of his receiving new instructions by letters patent from the Queen. Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. Hewitt): Order! Before putting the question, My Government believes that writing these I acknowledge the presence in our Chamber existing provisions of constitutional law and this evening of visiting members of the Com­ practice into the constitution will safeguard monwealth Parliamentary Association from the existing system of parLiamentary Govern­ the United Kingdom. I think all members ment in Queensland but it believes that it is would join me in welcoming them to our necessary to entrench this safeguard against proceedings. the possibility of changes being brought about by Parliament contrary to the wishes Honourable Members: Hear, hear! of the electorate. Few people in Queensland today want a republic-especially the socialist republic CONSTITUTION ACT AMENDMENT which so many Labor Party people appear BILL to want. We do not want a Government SECOND READING-RESUMPTION OF DEBATE of this State at any time taking advantage of the people to produce a republic by Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the stealth. If the people want it, then they Opposition) (7.53 p.m.): The Opposition wel­ should be able to clearly indicate so at a comes any Bill that will allow Queenslanders referendum. Only if the people of Queens­ and Australians to make a decision on who land vote for a change will it be possible will be the Governor of this State. In the for Australia as a whole to become a republic, last few days the Premier has been shown because you cannot change the monarchy in to be, in Austral!an terms, a const-itutional one part of Australia unless you change it in dill on this issue. There is at present before the whole. the House a Bill that says in effect that the people of Queensland, or their elected Mr. K. J. Hooper: Do you think "King Assembly, cannot do anything to change the Joh and Queen Flo" would roll nicely off the Governor's position without a referendum, tongue? but the Premier has been running round to the newspapers saying that the British Government can do so. He has now Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The honour­ admitted this evening that he spent an able member is trying to treat a very serious hour in London having a yarn to some matter in a very light vein. Minister of what he is reported in the Press as calling a 'foreign' Government, A Government Member: In a childish way. discussing the question of the person who is to represent the Queen as Governor of this Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Yes, in a State. The Premier has therefore introduced childish way. a Bill to prevent Queenslanders from having a say without a referendum although, on his To entrench the present system, the Bill own admission, people on the other side of provides that none of its clauses can be the globe do have a say. altered by Parl·iament unless the Bill is first presented to the people by way of referendum Let me make the position very clear. I as prescribed in the Bill. petitioned the Queen, as is my right, as a loyal Australian citizen. I wrote to her on The requirement of entrenchment is also 16 October, as the Premier said. I released itself entrenched so that the guarantee cannot my letter to the Queen to "The Courier Mail" be undone, such as has been done in other of the day and the Premier can table it if he parts of the Commonwealth of Nat•ions where likes. a republican form of government has been The Governor of Quensland went onto the brought about contrary to the constitution. political platform 26 days before the As I have said, a great deal of thought Governor-General decided to revoke the has gone into this Bill. What has been done commission of an elected Government in this in other parts of the British Commonwealth country. He went onto the platform and has been taken into account and we have started to play party politics. He declared considered all of the implications of entrench­ his allegiance to the National and Liberal ment and the way in which the entrenchment Parties. He declared his support for the can be brought about constitutionally. My policies of the chamber of commerce and Government is confident that this is a the others in the community who were using Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill 2173

their lobby to bring down an elected Gov­ On 29 October I received a letter from ernment. I want to make it very clear that Martin somebody or other-I cannot read I am saying this so that Government mem­ his surname-from Buckingham Palace. It bers can take it back to their electors and stated- show it to them. " I write to thank you for your letter Very clearly this Government is intro­ of 16th October with which you for­ ducing a Bill to restrict the right of warded a Petition to The Queen, on behalf Queenslanders in this area, but the Premier of Her Majesty's Opposition in the Parlia­ of this State has said he had to spend an ment of the State of Queensland, seeking hour talking to a Minister in London as he the revocation of the Commission appoint­ is now concerned that the British Govern­ ing Air Marshal Sir Colin Hannah, ment, no matter what political colour it K.C.M.G., K.B.E., C.B., to be Governor might be, could deny us the right to have of Queensland and his removal from that the Governor of our choice, the one we office. recommend. This is what the National "On Her Majesty's instructions, and in Party stands for! accordance with constitutional practice, your Petition has been forwarded to the The National Party came here once before Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, the in relation to the Privy Council. It passed Minister on whose advice The Queen a Bill saying, "You can't appeal to the High appointed Sir Colin Hannah to the Court of Australia. You've got to retain Governorship." your right to go across the world." It said So it is the Foreign and Commonwealth we had to go across the world to what the Secretary who makes the decisions. I have Premier now calls a foreign Government. had a look through the records and I find That is what the Premier said in this Cham­ that this Minister is appointed by the Gov­ ber. The Bill was introduced to restrict the ernment of the day in Britain. Britain might rights of Australians to have our own court have a Communist Government elected and decisions judged here by our own judges. they will be making the decisions-- It was used to demean our own people, to say that they are not good enough, to say that Mr. Moore: No, never! Australian judges who studied in this country and were appointed to the Australian High Mr. BURNS: Yes, of course they could. Court were not as good as judges anywhere They could have a Communist Government else and that we had to go overseas to have or a Fascist Government and, like the Nazis, these appeals heard. This is what it is all they would be saying "Sieg heil!" in the about. Parliament and-- Now let me return to what I did in relation Mr. Moore: You were right the first time. to the Governor, because I want to say Mr. BURNS: If the honourable member something else about Sir Colin Hannah. for Windsor were over there it would be a Fascist government for sure. We could have Mr. Ahern: What chance would he have a Fascist or Communist Government elected had with Whitlam? in Britain and they would be making the decisions about who would be the Governor. Mr. BURNS: As I understand it, it makes But here we have a Bill introduced by the no difference; the British Government will Government to say that we should not have make the decision. As I understand the a say unless we have a referendum, Premier's statement in the newspaper, the although the people of Britain, who are not British Government will make the decision even going to be concerned ,about the and it has nothing to do with Whitlam. Governor of Queensland at that time, will Whitlam is not there now; Mr. Fraser is have a say. there. The Premier's mate is there-the man Let me go a bit further, because the going up and down like Skippy the cornflake Premier now says it is the British Labour kangaroo with the devaluation and revalua­ Government that is affecting the decision tion of the dollar. on Sir Colin Hannah. I have here a letter from Sir Colin Hannah to me. It is dated The Premier found he cannot appoint the 30 January 1976. Governor he wants and he wants to blame Whitlam. He should not go back into the Mr. Porter: The usual private letter? past; he should live for today. Right now Mr. BURNS: It would be; but it is relevant in this Parliament we are debating the to what the Premier said earlier tonight. second reading of the Bill and the Prime He said, "Oh, Sir Colin wouldn't want me Minister in charge of Australia is Malcolm to do this, but I'm doing it anyway." Don't Fraser. The Premier spent a great deal of our worry about Joh! When it suits him, Joh money flying around the State telling the will get down into every gutter in politics, people that Fraser would work economic and if he wants to use his gutter tactics miracles, he would lead us out of all of our here-- problems. Probably the Premier's statements about Malcolm Fraser are as factual as some Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. of his statements about the Governor and the Hewitt): Order! The Premier will be referred reasons for his not being reappointed. to in proper terms. 2174 Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill

Mr. BURNS: Well, Premier Joh. good, but they do the position some long­ term political harm. It is very bad to do Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That is that. not acceptable to the Chair. Let me make it very clear. The Opposition is not going to back away from what it Mr. BURNS: Right, Mr. Deputy Speaker. did last year, because we believe that what The Premier decided to raise this question we did was right. We are not going to of Sir Colin Hannah's appointment. Sir oppose the Bill. If these are the things that Colin had said that he did not want it raised, the Premier is going to say are important but the Premier decided to raise it anyway. enough to need a referendum, let him say so. If he wishes to do something for I have here a letter from Sir Colin Hannah the people of Queensland, let him put -I have not asked him whether I could use some amendments into the Act to it, but it is here for everybody to see-in say that the British Government, or any which he said- other Government, cannot interfere between "Dear Mr. Burns, the Government of this State and the Queen "I have received a letter from the Right when we ask her to appoint someone. If Honourable the Secretary of State for the Premier is fair dinkum about what he Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs in has been saying in the last few days, let London dated 16th January, 1976. him introduce such an amendment. Let him hire the Government's $44,000 constitutional "The Foreign and Commonwealth lawyer or send the Minister for Justice on Secretary has asked me to inform you another jaunt, and then bring down some that he has laid before Her Majesty The amendments to the Act providing that the Queen the Petition of Mr. Tom Burns, appointment of persons recommended by Leader of the Opposition in the Legislative the elected Government of this State shall Assembly in the State of Queensland, and not be interfered with by the British Govern­ that Her Majesty has accepted his advice ment, the Imperial Government or any that no action should be taken on it." other Government, and the Opposition will So I ask the Premier not to say "my letter" support those amendments. or "my petition". Here is the Governor's letter, written almost 12 months ago, saying Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (8.4 p.m.): It is that Her Majesty has accepted the advice quite obvious that members of the Opposition that no action be taken. are awaiting my comments with some con­ What the newspapers have said about the siderable interest, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Premier in the last couple of days is right. The Leader of the Opposition shoots out He has been playing politics on this matter. words like a fire hose, operating under con­ Rumours have abounded for some time that siderable pressure, spurts out water. The Sir Colin Hannah did not want another term trouble is, of course, that he never spurts out as Governor. Now we are being told that words in an endeavour to contain any fires. politics has entered into it. What he does is use inflammatory and crude The Premier is well known for his stunts, terms that are always designed to exaggerate well known for the Christmas capers that problems, cause divisions, appeal to prejudice, we get every year-Wiley Fancher; the Queen envy, and so on. How petty it was of him of Queensland. They are fronted out time to petition Her Majesty for the removal of after time. The man who is sliding down the present Governor when one remembers politically day by day as Malcolm Fraser that he made one statement which was totally fouls up the economy has to pull out some common sense and which the electorate of other stunt. He is trying to pull out this Australia totally justified. one and say that the Labor Party does not I can remember and everybody in this want the Governor. Let me make it very House can remember that, when Sir Mark clear to the Premier. The Labor Party Oliphant was first appointed Governor of appointed Governor after Governor of this South Australia, he made a number of com­ State. The longest-serving Governors were ments which were extremely critical of the appointed by Labor Governments. political parties which I support. But did If I ever have the honour to lead a Labor anyone ever complain about it? Did anyone Government in this State, I will appoint a ever raise it in this or any other Chamber? Governor. I will appoint a Queenslander Did anyone ever petition the Queen for his who will be impartial and who will not play removal? Of course not. When somebody politics with his position. If a person treads on Labor's toes, the reaction is vastly appointed by a Labor Government of which different from what it is when Labor walks I was a member played politics with his with hobnail boots over somebody else. It position, I would again petition the Queen is very different indeed. for his removal. I would not make any bones The Opposition stands totally discredited about it. Honourable members opposite, by this petty, miserable procedure of peti­ in trying to use the royal position and the tioning the Queen to remove the Governor Governor and others for their own personal for making one sensible comment. And advantage, ought to realise that they do as to the political application of it, one the position of Governor a disservice. They had to use a great deal of imagination to might do themselves some short-term political suggest that it was politically motivated. Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill 2175

It was a comment on the economy which massive majorities that have ever been seen was totally relevant in the context of the in Australian political history. That is the times. fact of the matter. These people dare to try to persuade the United Kingdom Gov­ It is quite interesting to note the recep­ ernment, which has a majority of one at tion to the introduction of this Bill into this the moment and is trembling at the prospect Chamber. In earlier times when we have of the polls in the future, to interfere with done various things and introduced measures the appointment of the Governor in the State designed to reinforce Queensland's sover­ of Queensland. What has happened only eignty because it was being quite strongly serves to underline the need for this partic­ assailed, particularly in the latter stages ular legislation, legislation which will of the Whitlam regime, we were greeted with entrench the role of the Governor in the sarcastic jibes and sneers, as I have men­ State Constitution. It will go a long way tioned before. But not this time. Oh, indeed, towards ensuring that moves to unilaterally no! This time we have had a sober acknow­ establish a republic in Australia will be ledgment from the nation's Press. There bound to fail. This is important not only has been a recognition of this State's proper for us but also for the whole of Australia. role in terms of its direct relationship with the monarch. The importance of this role When we realise that a United Kingdom of the monarch has been emphasised by the Government can interfere, we see that it is events of recent days. The United Kingdom something like taking the skin off an onion; Government, apparently for another miser­ we take one skin off and underneath we find able, petty, political reason, is considering another skin. It is very easy for the Leader not reappointing the Queensland Governor. of the Opposition to make high-falutin remarks to the effect, "What are we doing Mr. K. J. Hooper interjected. here when the United Kingdom Government can interfere?" The fact is that it is only when we start to look at these things and Mr. PORTER: It is time that British see them in action that we realise how many Governments recognised that in Australia we layers of precedent and practice there are, have a federal system, and it is high time how many remnants of previous colonial law that the honourable member for Archerfield have to be dealt with, before we get the recognised that we have a federal system thing as we want it and as it should be. which, overwhelmingly, the people in this country and in this State want. If he does I say again that nobody wants a republic. not, he will be one of the forgotten men­ The Labor Opposition pretends that a republic one of the dinosaurs of politics whose bones is something desirable, an end to be devoutly whiten the highway of history as time rolls desired, something that we should work past him. towards. It is useless for honourable members The British Government has a tendency opposite to try to pretend they do not believe to think that the Australian system is a in this or that they have appointed Governors unitary one similar to its own. In Australia in the past and will go on doing so. Their the States have equal sovereignty with the platform is explicit; it is the abolition of central Government, and their relationship the States and the abolition of the roles of with the monarch is exactly the same. State Governors. It is quite explicit, so it Because the Statute of Westminster deals is foolish of honourable members opposite with a central Government, that in no way to attempt to deny it. lessens the ties of the State Governments Opposition members show themselves as with the monarch. That has to be remem­ pnppets of the extreme Left Wing of the bered. It would be quite wrong-indeed, it political spectrum, which they inhabit. The would be mischievous-if United Kingdom exception is, of course, the honourable mem­ Governments failed to recognise this funda­ ber for Bundaberg, who perforce has had mental difference between the Australian to cut the strings and from now on appar­ federal system and the British unitary sys­ ently wiii be acting as his own man. tem, although the British people themselves might find out some of the problems of For the life of me I can never understand federalism if they proceed with the devolu­ why the Labor Party is so violently anti­ tion of power to Scotland and Wales. They British. And this is the genesis of its policy. then may know something about the problem It has this desire always to show that we of maintaining an effective federal system, are different, that we are on our own and something that we have known for 70 years. that we must deny everything that is happen­ ing to us. It would be much more than mischievous; it would be stupidly malicious if a Labor Mr. Burns: Yesterday the Premier caiied Government in the United Kingdom were the British Government a foreign Government. to play politics on so miserable a level Do you agree with that? as to deny the appointment of a State Governor wanted by the sovereign Govern­ Mr. PORTER: If the British Government ment of the State-at the behest of a Labor acts in defiance of the wishes of a properly Party in Australia which has been thoroughly elected Government here, it shows ail the discredited and rejected by the electorate at trappings of a foreign Government and it both Federal and State levels by the most should be ashamed of itself for doing so. 2176 Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill

Those who are so ardently proclaiming a to see the violent attempts made to force 11. republic and who believe that to establish republic upon us, as happened in the final a republic will show that we have cut days of the Whitlam Government's term of ourselves off from all the inheritance that office, when it brought us to the very brink was British have to remember some of the of an Australian republic. things that I mentioned previously. We owe a great debt of gratitude to the British nation The people who think in :those terms want because of what we are and because of the to remember that by this Bill that we are system that we have inherited. Literally considering today, which will prevent the everything here that is worth while has been unilateral formation of a republic in Aus­ achieved by the English for themselves and tralia, we are literally doing them a good handed on to us. It has been built on tnrn. How many people know that, of the what might be described as the great tripod little more than $6,000 million Australian of the liberal ethic. I do not use the word surplus of exports over imports, Queensland "liberal" in any political sense at all; I and Western Australia are responsible for meant it has been built on the concept of $3,250 million? In other words, it is the rejection of violence to secure decisions, Queensland and Western Australia-Queens­ the reaching of public decisions through free land having a surplus of $1,750 million and argument, through voluntary compromise. Western Australia, $1,500 million-that enable the other S{ates (particularly Victoria The British have had a genius for that and New South Wales, which are in deficit and all their institutions arising from it have almost to the extent that we and Western been relied on heavily by the rest of the Australia are in surplus) to live in the style Western World. The British have shown how that we by our capacity permit them to live good it is to have the slow evolution of moral in. principles which are tested by time and by expenence and are then stamped with con­ So the role of Queensland and Western sensus-not decisions that are forced on Australia in a federal system is absolutely people by monolithic all-powerful Govern­ vital to the well-being of the southern States, ments, but decisions that are accepted by and it is high time that :they remembered people because people recognise that they are it instead of trying to treat us as though we in their best interests. were the poor relations, parts of whose That is the quality of a civilisation, and territory can be given away any time they the British civilisation has always been wish to make some sort of an impression sophisticated in a political sense. All of on the Third World or some other place us owe a debt to that sophistication, because which some of our people like to impress. we have used it. I believe that the strength The plain fact of the matter is that, if we of British society-English society, if it might ever got to the stage of a real attempt to properly be put that way-is based on a very form a republic in Australia and Queensland accurate balance between the needs of the State and Western Australia decided that they and the rights of the individual. That balance would have no part of it, the rest of Aus­ was maintained in turn by the law to which tralia would be totally bankrupt without us. all including the State were subj~ct. These We and Western Australia would be in a are great concepts which the whole of the magnificent position. We would be able to world owes to the British. make trading paots with other countries which Mr. Jones: Land of hope and glory. would be of an enormous advantage to the people living in these States. I venture Mr. PORTER: I hear some honourable to say that under those circumstances (which gentleman making some sneering, chanting I most certainly do not want to see happen reference. and do not expect 1o see happen) there would be such a trek of people from the southern Mr. Moore: An A.L.P. member. States to Western Australia and Queensland as would make the refugee treks of the wars look small in comparison. They would be Mr. PORTER: An A.L.P. member, of coming up here in their hundreds of course-as though these are things that shou1d thousands. be ridiculed and despised. How typical of the Opposition! How totally out of step Let nobody imagine that rthis State is a are Opposition members with the overwhelm­ poor relation which has to depend upon good ing mass. of people in this country. They will to make sure that we maintain what is are a mtserable, perverted, whining lot of properly ours. We are in a strong position. people who simply refuse to recognise the In the whole Australian scene, we are the debts that they owe to the people who have strongest State in Australia in terms of our begotten them. surplus of exports over imports. When we set out to entrench the role of our Governor Finally, whenever and however moves to in order to make sure that we cannot be turn Australia into a republic may come­ unilaterally turned into a republic-at the we do not expect them at present, although same time making sure that it cannot happen we are not happy about the recent tide of to the rest of Australia-we have done the affairs from Canberra (I certainly am not)­ whole of Australia an inestimable service and certainly no-one suggests that we are likely we should be recognised as doing it. Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill 2177

Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (8.19 p.m.): Sur­ If the Governor has to deal with a situa­ prisingly, after the events of the last few tion similar to the one that confronted Sir days, I felt that this was one piece of super­ Philip Game in the 1930s concerning the fluous legislation that we were not going Lang Government, the result would be the to be worried about this week. I say "sup­ same. That matter was referred to Her erfluous" advisedly, and I again reiterate Majesty's Secretary of State in the United the points I made in the introduction of this Kingdom and was thrown back into Sir Bill. There is absolutely nothing in this Philip's lap to make his own decision. Bill that does not already exist in letters patent for this State. We can li:>ten to all Under the Bill a number of additional of the rot and diatribe that the honourable requirements are written into the constitution member for Toowong has just gone on regarding the need for a referendum. I with-- accept some of them. In 1934, when the last major change was made to the constitutional Act, a policy was incorporated to strengthen Mr. Jones: More British than the British! our having a one-House system in the Queensland Parliament and it is necessary for Mr. CASEY: Yes, still hanging onto the a referendum to be carried to change it. coat-tails of Bob Menzies of an era that is The change also provided for a three-year long since ended, as has been proved in more term, which again cannot be altered except recent times-and even by the comments of by referendum. the Premier earlier tonight in his sceond­ It is rather strange to see that the new reading speech. principle in clause 4, which inserts a new The letters patent are the letters patent section 11A, also requires a referendum to of the State of Queensland, not of a part of be held if a change is desired. As previous the Commonwealth, not of Western Aus­ speakers asked, and it was referred to briefly tralia. As such they tie Queensland directly by the honourable member for Toowong, to the Crown. This has been seen quite what will happen if a change is made in the clearly in the events of recent days in the system of Government in the United King­ United Kingdom. dom? We know that consideration is being given to a change in format, with a certain The Minister for Justice and Attorney­ amount of self-rule being given to Scotland, General might admit that no matter what Ireland and Wales. What happens in their we introduce in this Bill, we cannot change devolution is of no concern to our Parlia­ anything contained in the letters patent. ment. It will happen as a result of a Therefore our system must be maintained by decision of their Parliament and in accord­ them. The reverse is also the case. They ance with the wishes of the British people. cannot be changed unless there is a change in the system of the Crown. That is quite If we incorporate all of these points in clear. Whether there is some mistrust of our legislation and there is a change in the Crown of England at this time by the the structure in England, we will have to Queensland Government, I do not know. I hold a referendum in this country. I sug­ should like to know if, during his recent gest to the Premier .that he give a lot more sojourn in England, the Minister for Justice consideration to this matter, particularly did have discussions with any of the Queen's the section that insists on a referendum in staff on this aspect of the proposed Bill. Queensland if there has to be any alteration It is a great waste of time to bring in to what will be section llB of the new Act. something that is merely making a lot of political noise. All of the powers required Mr. Lickiss: You are certainly tying your­ by our Governor are already there; he self up now. already has them. They are already properly and clearly established and have been in practice for almost 120 years. Why we want Mr. CASEY: I think I might have the to try to re-entrench them and reinforce Minister tied up in knots. By the sound of them at this stage because of some fear or it, he certainly tied himself up in knots in apprehension that has been completely dis­ England. When one thinks of the legacy counted by events of recent days, I fail to that he left behind him and ,the row that is understand. now going on, obviously he did not come back having achieved a great deal of suc­ Several points in the Bill make it clear cess. that it does not matter what happens under the letters patent or under parts of the Bill One of the things that amazed me in the that are a duplication of what is in the letters Bill is the inclusion of a clause which pro­ patent; these matters have to be referred by vides that, even when the referendum pro­ the Governor to Her Majesty's Principal cedure has been gone through, anyone, Secretary of State in the United Kingdom before or after the Bill is taken into account, for his guidance. That is quite clear under can take out an injunction for enforcement the Bill, so it does not give the Premier a of that provision. The Premier or the way out of his existing dilemma in the Attorney-General may possibly be able to appointment or reappointment of a Governor explain the reason for that provision. I can of the State of Queensland. The system is understand that there could possibly be cir­ already there and is clearly established. cumstances in which an injunction could be 2178 Constitution Act [7 DECEMBER 1976) Amendment Bill

taken out before the holding of a referendum, Mr. K. J. Hooper: Why do you always but after .the people had made their deter­ pick on me? I'm never nasty to you. mination I feel that all the injunctions in the world, once the Bill had become law, Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I pick on the would make no difference to what was to honourable member because he has demon­ happen. I find that point rather strange strated a very high degree of irresponsibility and I think it needs some explanation. in that he prefers a republic to the way All in all, the Bill is a great waste of of life which we have inherited, which we time. It is superfluous, and this has been enjoy and which has meant so much not only proved by events in recent days in the to Australia but to many other nations of the United Kingdom. British Commonwealth. I hope we can con­ tinue in this way. All we are trying Hon. J. B.JELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah to do is entrench the position of our Gov­ -Premier) (8.27 p.m.), in reply: It is rather ernor so that we may continue with our disturbing to find a man who is elected to way of life. represent the people in this Parliament say­ ing that the passing of a vital measure is a It does not help any for the Leader of waste of time. That certainly demonstrates the Opposition to say that we are restrict­ his ignorance, his lack of understanding and ing the rights of the people. He was talk­ his inability to comprehend the value of the ing around in circles and getting nowhere. Bill. On the one hand he was saying we have Mr. Casey: Have you read the letters to have a referendum, and on the other patent? he was saying we are preventing the people from having a say. I do not know what he Mr. B.JELKE-PETERSEN: I would hate had to eat at dinner or what he has had to be in a jam and have my life depend on to drink, but he cannot get out of it by the honourable member's legal knowledge. saying all these sorts of things. He can­ I would be a dead duck immediately! The not get out of it by saying, "The decision honourable member talks about letters was made by the British Government, because patent. We are talking now about writing all Her Majesty passed it on to the British Gov­ of these safeguards into the constitution. It ernment and therefore I am a clean-skin." must be realised that, because of the type That is what the Leader of the Opposition of people with whom the honourable mem­ tried to indicate. He said, "I only wrote ber is associated, we are not living in the to Her Majesty. I didn't write to the British days of gentlemanly politics. Because of Government. It's not my fault that they the way in which the honourable member won't say yes." and others associated with him operate, politics today is a hard and cold business. Mr. Burns: I never said that. Don't start Letters patent are not sufficient for such putting words in my mouth. people, so these things have to be written into the constitution and properly covered. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The Leader of I do not think the honourable member the Opposition said he wrote to Her Majesty should ever try to give legal advice to any­ the Queen and then the letter went to the body; he would be misleading from the British Government. word go. Mr. Burns: You haven't won too many Mr. Burns: Start to tell the truth. High Court cases yourself. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Whichever Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I am letting way it got to the British Government, the the honourable member off lightly, too. Leader of the Opposition is demonstrating I want to say how much I appreciate the how ignorant he is of what would happen very able contribution made by the honour­ to this letter and this shows the folly of tak­ able member for Toowong. I was interested ing up the petition. He ought to know that to hear him outline to the House the influence it automatically goes from the Queen to that Britain and her constitution have the British Government. He ought to seek had on Australia and the way of life of its the advice of his Federal leader and then people. I say that particularly because we he would know. have in the Chamber this evening some very distinguished members of Parliament Mr. :Burns: I petitioned the Queen; I wrote from Britain, who no doubt are interested to her. in seeing the way in which some honourable members in Queensland perform and hearing Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Of course the their attitude to Britain and the system that Leader of the Opposition did. That is what we have inherited from that country which I have been saying all evening. The Leader has meant so much to us. I refer to things of the Opposition says that he would appoint such as the high standard of living that we a Governor if he were ever to become enjoy, our freedom and our right to wor­ Premier. He has to realise that he does ship as we wish. It is hard to imagine that not appoint the Governor. That is the there are in this House people such as the royal prerogative. All he can do is recom­ honourable member for Archerfield. mend someone. There is a split in the Governors' Pensions Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Governors' Pensions Bill 2179

Opposition. One honourable member oppo­ INITIATION IN COMMITTEE site says he wants a republic and another says he would be prepared to go along (Mr. Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) with the system of Government we have Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah today, but we know what is the official -Premier) (8.37 p.m.): I move- policy-- "That a Bill be introduced to provide Mr. Jones: One isn't a majority on our for the payment of pensions to certain former Governors of the State and for the side of the House. spouses of certain deceased Governors and former Governors and to provide for Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The honour­ matters incidental thereto." able member for Cairns surely does not mean to tell me that the honourable member A situation has arisen earlier tonight in for Archerfield is the only one who holds relation to the position of His Excellency that view. We only need to go out and the Governor, and it is appropriate that I see what is demonstrated outside. All the immediately introduce a measure of this words in the world will not clear the hon­ nature. Indeed, my Government has been ourable member for Archerfield or remove considering for some time the important and from him the stigma that he has cast upon fundamental principles on which this Bill is our Governor-a man of great integrity we based and I want to outline to the Committee all respect highly-and on the community. the various matters which have been taken He is responsible and has to take the con­ into account in our consideration of the Bill's sequences. provisions. Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to. Prior to the appointment of Sir John Lavarack as Governor of Queensland in 1946, CoMMITTEE all occupants of that position were from the United Kingdom and, in Queensland's (Mr. Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) years as a colony, were appointed in accord­ Clauses 1 to 7, both inclusive, and pre­ ance with the then system as colonial Gov­ amble, as read, agreed to. ernors. Following the formation of the Commonwealth of Australia in 1901, our Bill reported, without amendment. Governors continued to be imperial appoin­ tees and Queensland did not have to concern itself regarding any pensions or emoluments WITHDRAWAL OF NOTICE OF MOTION to which they might be entitled upon the expiration of their terms of office. GOVERNORS' PENSIONS BILL The question of Governors' pensions first Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah arose when Sir John Lavarack became ser­ -Premier) (8.35 p.m.): I ask leave to with­ iously ill in early 1957 and some considera­ draw the notice of motion given by me this tion was given to granting him a pension. morning concerning the Governors' Pensions With Sir John's continued illness, the Gov­ Bill. ernment of the day first decided to pay his (Leave granted.) salary during the complete period of his incapacity and then decided to provide a pension for Sir John and Lady Lavarack, as some honourable members will recall. GOVERNORS' PENSIONS BILL The Governor's Pension Act of 1957 was INITIATION accordingly introduced and assented to on Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah 11 November 1957. The Act provided that -Premier) (8.36 p.m.), by leave, without from 1 October 19 57 (that is, the first day notice: I move- of his retirement) Sir John should receive a pension during life and that, if his wife "That the House will, at its present sit­ should survive him, there should be payable ting, resolve itself into a Committee of the on his death to her a pension during life. Whole to consider introducing a Bill to Unfortunately, Sir John died shortly after provide for the payment of pensions to the actual pension had come into effect and certain former Governors of the State on and from 5 December 1957 Lady Lavar· and for the spouses of certain deceased ack commenced receiving her pension and Governors and former Governors and to was in receipt of this pension until her death provide for matters incidental thereto." in 1974. I would mention here that not only the Government but the Opposition of Mr. K. J. HoQper interjected. the day strongly supported that measure. The next Australian-born Governor of Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The honour­ Queensland was, of course, Sir Alan Mans­ able member has difficulty in containing his field, who was appointed to that position in glee, of course, at the sequence of certain March 1966 and retired in March 1972. As events. a former Chief Justice of Queensland, Sir Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to. Alan was entitled to a pension under the 2180 Governors' Pensions Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Governors' Pensions Bill

Judges' Pensions Act, and naturally Sir Alan of the office of Governor or is the holder of has continued to receive that pension since the office of Governor at the commencement the expiration of his term as Governor. of the Act, an annual pension after the con­ clusion of his term of office. It provides fur­ We now, of course, have our third Aus­ ther that a person born in Australia who tralian-bern Governor in the person of Sir becomes the holder of the office of Governor Colin Hannah, who commenced his term of after the commencement of the Act shall office on 21 March 1972. In Sir Colin's case, receive an annual pension after the con­ I understand that as an Air Marshal in the clusion of his term of office providing he has R.A.A.F., he qualified for superannuation held that office for a period of not less than under the Defence Forces Retirement Benefit five years or has ceased to hold it as a result Act but, because he had not reached the of mental or physical incapacity. stipulated age for retirement in his rank when he accepted the appointment of The Bill also provides for a pension to be Governor, his superannuation pension was payable to the widow or widower of the reduced considerably. The new rates of pen­ Governor until remarriage, at a rate equal sion adopted by the Federal Government to five-eighths of the Governor's pension or, following the J ess Committee report were where the Governor dies in office, five-six­ not extended to members of the servkes who teenths of the rate of salary payable to him were already retired and, consequently, Sir as Governor at the time of death. I draw Colin's defence forces retirement benefit attention to the words 'widow or widower', pension now falls far short of that provided for one must recognise the probability that for officers of his rank and also of ranks in time to come a woman will receive junior to him who have retired subsequently. appointment to the office of Governor.

Honourable members will be aware that it The rate of pension payable to the is now a more or less established practice in Governor on retirement will be 50 per cent the Australian States that, when making of his salary at the date of retirement, less recommendations to Her Majesty concern[ng any amount received by way of annuity or the appointment of a Governor, preference retiring allowance from Crown sources pay­ is directed towards an Australian-born able to him as a consequence of some appointee. This attitude has been strongly employment in that area prior to his assum­ endorsed by the public, and I am convinced ing the office of Governor. Similar provi­ there should be no departure from such a sions are contained in both the Common­ procedure. However, it would be fair to say wealth Act in relation to the pension entitle­ that imperial appointees to the position of ment of the Governor-General and in the Governor, while being persons of note, were South Australian legislation appertaining to also inval"iably possessed of private financial the pension entitlement of the Governor of means. ·In addition, they had the benefit and that State. protection of United Kingdom pension rights. In the search for an appropriate Australian­ An exemption to this offset has been made born appointee, the situation could well arise in relation to any disability pension or any where such a person has all the necessary age pension which the Governor might be attributes for the position but lacks an entitled to receive. Provision is contained appropriate level of affluence. For this in the Bill for the pension payable to be reason, he may well feel that he has to adjusted from time to time in a manner decline .the invitation. I must point out that similar to the adjustment that is made under this decision to decl[ne would not normally the provisions of the Judges' Pensions Act. be influenced by the emoluments of office but rather by the position which could obtain I do not intend to dwell at length on the at the conclusion of the term of office. Here responsibilities which are associated with the I refer to an implied understanding that the considerations which lead ultimately to the occupant of this position would not accept recommendation that goes forward for subsequent positions which would result in appointment to the office of Governor. How­ personal financial gain. In other words, it is ever, it would be remiss of me if I were not accepted as inappropriate for a former to pay a particular tribute to the present Governor to place his services on the public holder of that office, and I refer of course to employment market. His Excellency Sir Colin Hannah. One of the main objects of this Bill is to make it possible for all notable Australians, In view of the present publicity that has with or without substantial private financial been directed towards Sir Colin's position, I means, to be considered for appointment to wish to place on record my Government's the po~ition of Governor of this State. I am continued confidence in his ability to dis­ sure this is an object which will be firmly charge faithfully and well the responsibilities supported by all honourable members. of his office and my Government's sincere appreciation of the manner in which he has Turning now to the provisions of the Bill, discharged those responsibilities during his which is a comparatively simple piece of term. When Sir Colin eventually relinquishes legislation, I want to inform the Committee his position, he will do so in the full know­ of the principles incorporated in the measure. ledge that he has set a fitting standard for The Bill provides that there be payable to a his ~successor as Her Majesty's representative person born in Australia who was the holder in Queensland to adopt and maintain. Superannuation Acts [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill 2181

Mr. BURNS (Lytton-'Leader of the The major improvements proposed in the Opposition) (8.47 p.m.): We have no opposi­ Bill are- tion whatever to a Bill such as this. It has (1) An increase in the rate of widow's always been my belief that we should ensure pension from 62.5 per cent to 66.7 per cent that anyone who retires, whether he be the of the contributor's pension. Governor or a labourer on the job, is assured of a pension and that his wife and (2) An increase in the rate of child's family have no financial worries as the result pension from $208.00 per annum to $416.00 of his illness or death. per annum where there is a widow; and from $416.00 per annum to $832.00 per It would be extremely difficult for a annum in the case of an orphan. Governor, having completed his term of office, to obtain financial assistance to allow (3) An extension from age 21 to age him to live in retirement, particularly as he 23 of the period during which children's or she-I hope that one day a lady will pensions are payable in respect of student occupy the position of Governor-is asked children. not to hold any further position after retire­ (4) The calculation of new pensions to ment. So it seems that the Government has members on the basis of a two-year final the duty and the responsibility to ensure average salary instead of the present three­ that the occupant of the position is pro­ year final average salary. vided with an adequate pension, one that {5) The payment of incapacity benefit will allow him to retire graciously and to during sick leave without pay after two maintain his wife and family. As I say, we weeks instead of after the existing two have no opposition whatever to the Bill. months. (6) The applicat·ion of emerging cost-of­ Hon. J. B.JELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah living adjustments from the first pension -Premier) (8.49 p.m.), in reply: I thank period in September of each year instead the Leader of the Opposition for his attitude of October. to this measure. Whilst it has not been possible to accede Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to. to all the requests and suggestions of the Resolution reported. various unions and associations, because of the cost factor and the current economic conditions, we have sought to achieve an FIRST READING equitable field of improvement that will benefit Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. as many members and their dependants as Bjelke-Petersen, read a first time. is practicable. I also mention that a number of matters raised by the Public Service unions have been deferred for further investigation. The alternative of delaying the amendments SUPERANNUATION ACTS now proposed until all matters are resolved would mean an unwarranted delay in the AMENDMENT BILL implementation of the suggested improve­ INITIATION IN COMMITTEE ments to benefits. (Mr. Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) The amendments incorporated in the Bill will mean considerable increases in pensions Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ payable to members, and to the widows and Premier) (8.50 p.m.): I move- dependent children of deceased members. "That a Bill be introduced to amend Such increases in benefits will be provided the State Service Superannuation Act 1972- at no extra cost to the members. The Crown 1975 and the Public Service Superannuation subsidises the principal benefits on a 2t: 1 Act 1958-1975 each in certain particulars." basis. It also provides a guaranteed rate of interest of 6 per cent per annum. I have much pleasure in introducing the Superannuation Acts Amendment Bill, which To overcome the actuarial deficit in the provides for improvements to the State Service Superannuation Fund which was revealed by Superannuation Scheme for Crown employees. the 30 June 1973 valuation, it is proposed As honourable members know, it has always to increase the rate of interest to 6:!- per cent been the policy of my Government to review per annum. In order to finance the fund's the superannuation scheme from time to portion of the increased benefits, it is pro­ time. posed to further increase the interest rate to 6t per cent per annum. Such proposed This Bill is the result of an investigation rate of interest is not considered ungenerous by a committee appointed by Cabinet to as a long-term guaranteed rate on existing review the scheme in the light of current and new moneys. economic conditions, relevant developments in other Australian Public Service schemes A further amendment contained in and possibilities for improvements in direc­ the Bill is that the present practice of tions sought by unions and associations. The the Crown's subsidising additional service Government has adopted the recommendations purchased by new appointees be discon­ of the committee. tinued. Such a provision is considered 2182 Superannuation Acts [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill

to be overgenerous and, in fact, could Index so that there will be no further eros­ lead to the doubling of Crown sub­ ion of their buying power. The Opposition sidies where an appointee to Queensland fully supports such an approach. Crown service has previously retired at an early age and is in receipt of pension from The calculation of pension benefits another State or the Commonwealth Gov­ accruing under the percentage scheme will ernment. Accordingly it is proposed that, in now be based on average increase in salary respect of new appointees who commence to over the final two years rather than the contribute after the date of operation of the previous basis of the final three years. I amendment Act, only their actual years of know that public servants will welcome this service will be subsidised and the whole provision. I have been told that this means responsibility for financing additional years that for members retiring at this point of of service will be placed upon such contribu­ time the changed method of calculation will tors. add about 10 per cent to the value of benefits. A number of other adjustments provided by the Bill are of a machinery nature and I am aware that the Public Service unions' are introduced to assist in the day-to-day submissions have been based on final salary. administration of the scheme. I can see that in a period of high inflation, the continuance of which is now assured It is considered that the adoption of the by the Fraser Government's devaluation amendments as presented will provide very decision and revaluation decision, public real increases in the rates of benefits pro­ servants are going out on pensions which in vided under the State Service Superannua­ effect represent a lower percentage of final tion Scheme and naturally I commend the salary than they were led to expect. However, Bill to the Committee. in periods of high inflation, when the current method of calculation most affects the per­ Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the centage of final salary, the cost of cal­ Opposition) (8.56 p.m.): The Opposition fully culating benefits on final salary would be supports the improvements that will accrue very high. If possible, it should be looked at to the members of these superannuation again in other periods. schemes as a result of the Bill. I fully support the increase in the widow's The review of the incapacity provisions pension from the current 62.5 per cent to of the State Service Superannuation Act is 66.7 per cent of a husband's annuity entitle­ long overdue. The previous provision where­ ments. I believe that the best aspect of the by an incapacitated member had to be superannuation scheme is the cover and without pay for a period of two months security it gives a married man during his before becoming eligible for incapacity service. A married public servant with full benefits was extremely harsh. superannuation benefits can rest assured that I know personally of a young married Pub­ his spouse will be adequately covered in the lic Service clerk who contracted hepatitis. event of his untimely death. Furthermore, He had two young children. He used up widows' pensions are automatically adjusted all of his accrued sick leave and served his for cost-of-living increases. two-month waiting period without pay be­ Politicians are often asked, "Where is the fore receiving incapacity payments, which, money coming from?" Obviously these im­ incidentally, amounted to just over half of proved benefits will cost both the Govern­ his normal gross salary. He could not meet ment and the State Service Superannuation his house payments or car payments for Fund a considerable amount. The fund por­ about three months. Obviously he went tion, as I understand the Premier, will back to work prematurely. He was still sick supposedly be met by increasing the rate of but he was in financial straits so he went interest earned by the fund from 6t per cent back to work. Unfortunately he had a to 6t per cent. However, the assumptions relapse and had to again serve the two­ under which the actuary has estimated that month waiting period without any incapacity an increase of ;} per cent in the rate of benefits. I suggest that at long last the two­ interest will cover the cost to the fund are, week waiting period gives some realistic I believe, highly suspect. protection to members. It is a shame that the Government has taken so many years to It is highly unrealistic for the actuary bring in such an urgent and humane im­ to assume that the average increase in the provement. Consumer Price Index will be only 4! per The doubling of the allowance for cent and that the average wage increases dependent children and pensions for orphans of public servants will also be 4! per cent. is another classic case of too little too late. Public Service salary increases over the past The ravages of inflation have diminished decade have averaged about 10 per cent the value of these benefits in real terms to a a year and the C.P.I. has risen by about small fraction of what they were worth 14 per cent a year over the past three years. when originally granted. It is highly likely that it will remain high fer some time. Unfortunately, with Fraser It is pleasing also that in the future these still fumbling with the switch, inflation allowances will be fully adjusted annually will remain high for many years to come. in accordance with the Consumer Price It certainly looks as if that will be the Superannuation Acts (7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill 2183 situation, and that ought to be taken into increased payments and will therefore have consideration when the Government is work­ extreme difficulty in meeting their commit­ ing out the amount of money that might have ments. Perhaps they will also have to prune to come from the fund. back some of their "mad extravagances" and The State Government has seen fit to sack a substantial number of staff. offer-at this stage anyway-the usual pre­ election lolly to the Public Service, but I The Opposition has no objection to the believe that it has unrealistically evaluated Bill. There are some problems, which I the cost. I am aware that the last actuarial have outlined in my comments, but we sup­ review of the State Service Superannuation port the introduction of the legislation Fund showed a deficiency of over because we know it will be beneficial to $17,000,000. I shudder to think what the members of the Public Service. deficiency will grow to by the time of the next review. I believe that the only Mr. POWELL (Isis) (9.4 p.m.): I support way that the fund will again become sound the measures introduced by the Premier, is for the Queensland Government to do which will result in improvements to the sup­ what the Commonwealth Goveniment and erannuation scheme of public servants. I three other State Governments have done believe the Premier mentioned six increases to overcome such a problem. These Gov­ that are to be made. Unlike the Leader ernments have accepted the full brunt of of the Opposition, I do not have a pre­ cost of living adjustments to all pensions pared brief that has been given to me to and allowances. I believe that I could read to the Committee. However, I will commit a future State Labor Government make a few remarks as a result of my experi­ to such action-and I will. It will stop ence of the State Service Superannuation the humbug of the Queensland Government Fund. If I had remained in the employ­ pretending to pay for increases in benefits ment in which I was engaged before I by a ;} per cent increase in the interest entered Parliament and reached the age of rate when, if it understood what is going 65, I would have been able to benefit from on, it must know that this increase will the scheme. not cover the cost to the fund. I have three more points to make before I am disappointed that the Government I finish. Firstly, I note in the actuary's has not decided to allow optional retire­ report that there is evidence that female ment without loss of benefits at the age of rates of contribution under the percentage 60 after a period of 40 years' service. Such scheme are unduly high in relation to the a provision is in operation in South Australia male rates. I ask: when will this Govern­ and New South Wales. In those State5 ment do something to rectify this inequity? people are able to retire at age 60 with­ Why should women have to pay more? out losing any benefits, and in Victoria Why should they be disadvantaged under and Western Australia there is an optional this Act? system of increased contributions to enable retirement at 60. I believe this is desir­ Secondly, I am aware that a substantial able, especially for teachers and members number of public servants have either no of the Police Force-teachers in particular. membership of the fund or, because they Unfortunately, they have a history of seldom have missed particular deadlines set down collecting much of their superannuation, even in the Act, they have not elected to take if they do reach the age of 65 and their full entitlements. I am convinced spend a few years in retirement. So I that the vast majority of these public ser­ believe that retirement at 60 for teachers vants were unaware of the time limit and in particular would be a very desirable thing have therefore through no fault of their indeed and I am disappointed that at this own been either totally excluded or pre­ stage the Government has not been able vented from improving their benefits. As I to bring in such a provision. understand it, the Superannuation Act is supposedly a beneficial Act and surely it The increase in the widows' pension from should not exclude public servants in such 62t per cent to 66.7 per cent is also an arbitary manner. I suggest that a Queens­ desirable, but I wonder why, when a person land Labor Government would most cer­ has been paying into the fund for 30 or 40 tainly give such public servants an opport­ years, his widow does not get the full con­ unity to join the fund or to improve their tributor's pension. A contributor will pay benefits. into the fund for all those years and yet Finally, I saw recently that the actuary only 66.7 per cent of the amount he would has increased the employers' contributions have received is paid to his widow. If a to the Superannuation Additional Benefits public servant dies before he reaches 65, his Fund from 137.5 per cent to 255 per cent, wife may still face the task of bringing up nearly double what they were, from 1 July children and getting them through school and 1976. Places such as colleges of advanced university. This happens quite often. Because education will now have to meet nearly she is burdened with bringing up the child­ double the contribution they would have had ren, her capacity ·to earn additional income to pay prior to this change, of which, incident­ is severely limited, and therefore I believe ally, they were given no notice. Conse­ ·that while the increase is good, it is not quently they have not budgeted for these good enough. 2184 Petroleum Act, &c., Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Business Names Act, &c., Bill

Like the Leader of the Opposition, I know I consider that the amendments contained of many people who have been disadvant­ in the Bill are very desirable in view of the aged by the two months' waiting period current financial position. before the payment of incapacity benefits, and I believe this is why the waiting period Mr. MARGINSON (Wolston) (9.13 p.m.): has been reduced to two weeks. As the Minister said, this is a very short but important Bill dealing with increases in The only other provision about which I fees. In view of the increases in fees of wish to comment is that relating to cost-of­ many other types, the Opposition supports living adjustments, which from now on will the Bill. be made on 1 September each year and not 1 October. I cannot see why this adjust­ Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister ment could not be made on 1 July, the first for Mines and Energy) (9.14 p.m.), in reply: day of the new financial year. Beneficiaries I thank the honourable member for Wolston have to wait an extra two months while for his acceptance of the proposal. It is contending with rising costs. proposed to increase the fees payable by The benefits which are being introduced about 50 per cent, and in some instances by by the Government at this stage are certainly 100 per cent. The three clauses delineate the desirable, but some of them are long over­ increases that are envisaged. due. I hope that in the not-too-distant Motion (Mr. Camm) agreed to. future the Government will see its way clear to introduce the option of retirement at 60 Resolution reported. with full benefits and also increase the widows' pension from 66.7 per cent to 100 FIRST READING per cent. Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Camm, read a first time. Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (9.8 p.m.), in reply: I appreci­ ate the contributions made by honourable members, the general support given to the BUSINESS NAMES ACT AMENDMENT Bill and the suggestions made by my col­ BILL league the honourable member for Isis. It INITIATION IN COMMITTEE would be good if we could do some of those things, but I 1think we have done a great (Mr. Kaus, Mansfield, in the chair) deal up to this point and if he can contain himself a little longer-this applies also ~o Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ the people in the union-! am sure iliat Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) some day, perhaps in the not-too-distant (9.15 p.m.): I move- future, we will be able to do so. "That a Bill be introduced to amend the Business Names Act 1962-1971 in certain Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to. particulars and for another purpose." Resolution reported. In accordance with Budget policy a number of Government charges that are levied in FIRST READING relation to services performed have been increased recently. Among these were fees Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. charged under the Business Names Act, Bjelke-Petersen, read a first time. including the fee for registration of a business name, which was increased from $20 to $23. The power to prescribe fees under the Busi­ ness Names Act, however, does not permit PETROLEUM ACT AMENDMENT BILL fees in excess of $20 to be prescribed. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE Although this limitation is most unusual and is found in very few enactments, nevertheless (Mr. Kaus, Mansfield, in the chair) the fee of $23 to which I have just referred is unauthorised. Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for Mines and Energy) (9.11 p.m.): I In addition, the fees for application for move- consent of the Crown Law Officer to the "That a Bill be introduced to amend use of a business name ($25) and for every the Petroleum Act 1923-1972 in certain order of the Crown Law Officer granting particulars." consent to the use of a business name ($50), which were previously prescribed, also The proposed Bill is a very short one, but exceed the statutory limit. nevertheless an important one. It simply increases the fees that are payable under To give effect to Budget policy primarily the Act. The current fees payable in respect and to bring the Business Names Act into of deposit on permit, rental on permit and line with most other Acts, it is proposed to rental on lease have been in force for many remove the restriction on the upper limit of years, and the increases as proposed are fees which may be charged. The Bill removes merely to bring the fees more in line with this restr-iction and makes provision also that present values. all fees over $20 already charged are valid. Urban Passenger Service [7 DECEMBER 1976] Proprietors, &c., Bill 2185

I commend the Bill to the Committee. Dr. LOCKWOOD (Toowoomba North) (9.22 p.m.): I rise to commend the Bill to Motion (Mr. Lickiss) agreed to. the Committee. The Act has proved to be Resolution reported. extremely popular with pensioners, but since its proclamation it has been found neces­ FIRST READING sary to amend it to provide for the payment of certain moneys retrospectively to bus Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. proprietors. At first it was thought that 3 Lickiss, read a first time. per cent on gross fare revenue would be sufficient to cover the shortfall in gross fare revenue received by bus proprietors, but now it has been found to be far from sufficient. URBAN PASSENGER SERVICE In Toowoomba some bus proprietors are PROPRIETORS ASSISTANCE running at deficits as high as 20 per cent ACT AMENDMENT BILL between the fares they receive plus the Government subsidy and what the fares INITIATION IN COMMITTEE would have been without the introduction of the Act in 1975. Since that time other (Mr. Kaus, Mansfield, in the cha:ir) persons and I have made representations on Hon. K. W. HOOPER (Greenslopes­ behalf of Toowoomba bus proprietors, but Minister for TranspoJ;t) (9.19 p.m.): I so far we have not heard whether they will move- receive a benefit beyond 10 per cent of gross fare revenue. The bus proprietor who operates "That a Bill be introduced to amend the a service in Hume Street is running at a 13.5 Urban Passenger Service Proprietors Assis­ per cent shortfall, and I have not yet heard tance Act 1975 in certain particulars." that it will be made up. He is, in effect, Honourable members will recall that the subsidising the Government in the provision Urban Passenger Service Proprietors Assis­ of cheaper fares to pensioners. tance Act 1975, which passed through this Another bus proprietor has shown that Assembly late last year, provides for com­ his shortfall is 20 per cent and another is pensation at the rate of 3 per cent of gross claiming that his is as high as 27 per cent. fare revenue or such greater percentage as I hope that before the Bill reaches the the Governor in Council on my recommenda­ second-reading stage we will have the assur­ tion in the particular case approves to be ance that each bus proprietor will receive paid to proprietors of urban passenger ser­ an amount equal to his shortfall. vices who are required to provide conces­ I appreciate that this matter is not covered sional fares to pensioners using their urban by the Bill, which enables the Treasurer to bus services. make retrospective payments. However, Par­ ~~is Bill is necessary to clarify the legal liament should ensure that none of the legis­ posrtion as regards the retrospective pay­ lation discriminates against any particular ment of percentages of gross fare revenue bus run because of the number of pensioners greater than the general rate of 3 per cent. it carries on behalf of the Government. I Unfortunately, while it was intended that the might add that the larger and longer the present Act provide for this retrospectivity, bus route, the less likely the proprietor legal advice is to the effect that while a is to face this difficulty, particularly if he greater percentage can be approved by the has a large working population to haul Governor in Council, there is no specific over more than 10 km. The percentages approval for retrospective payment, which as allowed by the Government will be more in all fairness, should apply when claims fo; than fair. If a proprietor, similarly, has a a greater percentage have been investigated large school run of any distance he will not and substantiated. be in any difficulty. However, I do not see why our legislation of 1975, as amended in The Bill is therefore a very simple one to 1976, should be hampered by a Treasury achieve the original objective of the Act limit of 10 per cent on gross fare revenue and goes no further than the legal clarifica­ without going into the particular needs of tion of what is intended. the individual bus proprietors. Mr. AHERN (Landsborough) (9.26 p.m.): Mr. JONES (Cairns) (9.21 p.m.): The I rise .to make a brief comment about the Bill appears to be purely a machinery meas­ urban passenger transport programme. I ure to provide retrospectivitv in relation to simply want to say that there are many the 3 per cent of the gross fare revenue and urban passenger transport situations in the con~essional fares for pensioners. It merely State that do not qualify for the subsidy clanfies a legal obstruction to retrospectivity programme. I have said it in ·the Chamber in relation to a percentage greater than 3 per cent after investigation. before. Mr. Jones: You said j.t in 1975. The Opposition supports the introduction of this measure and, to facilitate the business Mr. AHERN: I said it in the Budget of the House, will limit its comments to those debate this year and on several other occas­ of support. ions. As we are amending the Act, I want 2186 Urban Passenger, &c., Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Local Government, &c., Bill

to say on behalf of the people that I repre­ Motion (Mr. Hooper) agreed to. sent that they find it difficult >to understand why they do not qualify for the type of Resolution reported. assistance that is provided for their city cousins-simply because they are not declared FIRST READING as provincial cities under the Elections Act. Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. I know rthat this is something that the Gov­ Hooper, read a first time. ernment went to the people for at election­ time; but I particularly hope that the Min­ ister can convince the Treasurer that rthe pensioner concession should be extended to LOCAL GOVERNMENT urban situations such as my own eleotorate SUPERANNUATION ACT -and there are many others throughout AMENDMENT BILL Queensland. I believe that would not cost the Treasury very much, and it would help INITIATION IN COMMITTEE to overcome the serious anomaly that causes so much concern to the people in my area (Mr. Kaus, Mansfield, in the chair) and to the bus proprietors in particular, Hon. R. J. IDNZE (South Coast-Minister who have to try to cope with a handicap for Local Government and Main Roads) which in their opinion is unjustifiable. (9.31 p.m.): I move- 'That a Bill be introduced to amend Hon. K. W. HOOPER (Greenslopes-Min­ the Local Government Superannuation Act ister for Transport) (9.27 p.m.), in reply: I 1964-1974 in a certain particular." thank the honourable members for their con­ tributions and the brevity of their remarks. This is a very short measure to enable the I am well aware of the situation as outlined Governor in Council, from time to time, to by the member for Toowoomba North, as I extend the term of appointment of members am of the points again raised in the Com­ of the Local Government Superannuation mittee by rthe honourable member for Lands­ Board. borough. Honourable members will be aware that I wish to reply to the points raised by •the the Local Government Superannuation Act honourable member for Toowoomba North. provides a compulsory contributory super­ I commend him for the representations-! annuation scheme for permanent employees might use the word "fight"-that he has put of local authorities throughout Queensland, up on behalf of the bus proprietors in with the exception of the Brisbane City Toowoomba who are disadvantaged. What Council, which has its own scheme under he said is quite correct. I understand that the City of Brisbane Act. a bus proprietor in another area is in similar The scheme which came into operation in difficulties. I say to the honourable member 1965 consists of two sections-an insurance -I know he is well aware of it, but I want section for males under the age of 55 years it recorded-that the ceiling he mentioned is and females under the age of 50 years and not in lthe Bill; nor is it in the Act. The a provident fund section for permanent 10 per cent ceiling is a Treasury requirement. employees over those ages. A female has the He has made very &trong representations right under the Act to elect to contribute to me and he has made similar representa­ to the provident fund in lieu of taking out tions to the Honourable the Treasurer. I insurance under the insurance section of the inform him that in the second reading I will scheme. not be able to tell him the answer, but he can take it from me that I will be fighting In general, both the insurance and provi­ on his behalf and on behalf of the people dent fund sections of the scheme are organ­ of Toowoomba generally. I know that a ised on the basis of contributions at the great number of them do not operate in the rate of 7 per cent of the annual salary or honourable member's area, but he is aware wages of each employee. The contributions thart the anomaly exists. I will certainly be are paid in advance by the local authority doing my utmost to have the problem and one-half of the contribution in respect ironed out. of each employee is deducted from his salary or wages payments throughout the year. The honourable member for Landsbor­ ough, in bringing the matter of non-urban Subject to the Minister, the scheme is pensioners to the attention of the Committee, administered by a Local Government Super­ has hit on a very important point. He has annuation Board consisting of three members made it many times in this Chamber. I appointed by the Governor in Council. hope to be able to convince my Cabinet col­ leagues that the Act should be extended to The board consists of- cover pensioners in other areas. I can see * a chairman, nominated by the Minister; quite a few other anomalies in the Act rthat I feel should be remedied, and we will be * a member nominated by the Local Gov­ looking at them in the New Year. ernment Association of Queensland; and * a member nominated by the Queensland I also thank the honourable member for State Branch of the Municipal Officers' Cairns for his support for the Bill. Association of Australia. Local Government, &c., Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Fisheries Bill 2187

The present members of the board are- board is to be made a little longer. Or does * Mr. G. W. Fynes-Clinton, solicitor, of that apply with respect to the Governor in Messrs King & Co., chairman; Council? * Mr. J. M. Armstrong, nominated by the At any rate, the Minister said that other Local Government Association, Mr. unions felt that they should be represented. Armstrong being the secretary of the asso­ I think they should, too, because the Muni­ ciation; and cipal Officers' Association does not by any means cover all the employees of local * Mr. A. V. Angove, nominated by the authorities. In fact, this superannuation Queensland State Branch of the Municipal scheme covers also unskilled members of Officers' Association of Australia, Mr. the work-force who work for councils on Angove being the town clerk of the Gold the roads. I am sure it would be found that Coast City Council. there are other unions with more local Members of the present board were authority employees than the M.O.A. appointed for a term of three years, the We will have a look at the Bill. There term of appointment expiring on 20 Dece~­ seem to be some complications in it and I ber 1976. The scheme has been ably admm­ should like to study it before we make any istered by the board and I congratulate the decision on it. members on the work they have carried out. Motion (Mr. Hinze) agreed to. There are presently under consideration certain proposals for modifications of the Resolution reported. existing scheme. FIRST READING Mr. Casey: What's it all about, Russ? Bill presented ~nd, on motion of Mr. Hinze, read a first time. Mr. HINZE: It is all about the super­ annuation scheme and the board. I could give the honourable member a long disserta­ FISHERIES BILL tion on it if he wishes. RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE Mr. Casey: Don't worry about it. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. Mr. HINZE: Would you prefer I did not? Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) Debate resumed from 23 November (see Mr. Casey: Yes. p. 1814) on Clause 20-0ffences with respect to inspectors and honorary rangers, on which Mr. HINZE: The modifications relate to Mr. Byrne had moved the following amend­ the level of contributions to the scheme and ment:- the benefits payable thereunder. I am of the "Omit all words on lines 46 to 48 on opinion that it is desirable that the present page 15 and all words on lines 1 to 3 board should remain in office until such on page 16." time as the matter of these modifications is settled. Amendment (Mr. Byrne) negatived. I am advised that the majority of perman­ Clause 20, as read, agreed to. ent employees of local authorities are not members of the Municipal Officers' Associa­ Clauses 21 to 52, both inclusive, as read, tion and there has been a request from an­ agreed to. other union that it be allowed representation Clause 53-Closed season- on the board. The submission by this union is that, until the matter of representation of Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minister the board is finalised, the present board for Aboriginal and Islanders Advancement should remain in existence. I consider that and Fisheries) (9.45 p.m.): I move the follow­ there is merit in this submission and the ing amendment:- Bill makes provision whereby the Governor in Council can extend from time to time "On page 30, line 35, omit the word­ for periods of not more than six months the 'product,' term of appointment of the present board. and insert in lieu thereof the words­ The matter of giving representation on the 'product or'." board to other unions will be considered l\lr. Burns: Why? along with proposals for modifications of the local government superannuation scheme. l\'Ir. WHARTON: Because it was a typo­ graphical error. I commend the Bill to the Committee. Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Mr. MARGINSON (Wolston) (9.38 p.m.): Opposition) (9.46 p.m.): As I understand I found it difficult at times, because of the clause 53, it says- noise in the Chamber, to get an idea of "Closed season. The Governor in Council what we are debating. I have reached the may, by Order in Council for the purposes conclusion that the period of service of the of this Act, declare, with respect to any 2188 Fisheries Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Fisheries Bill

species of fish or marine product, any Clause 53, as amended, agreed to. Queensland waters specified in the Order Clauses 54 to 61, both inclusive, as read, to be, without limit of time or for the agreed to. time specified therein, a closed season." The Minister said that we should omit the Clause 62-Prohibition of use of explosive, word "product," and insert the words "product firearm, noxious substance, electrical device or". The clause will then read " ... with for taking fish or marine products- respect to any species of fish or marine pro­ duct or ..." I do not see that that makes Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minister sense. for Aboriginal and Islanders Advancement and Fisheries): I move the following amend­ An Honourable Member interjected. ment:- Mr. BURNS: Where is the comma? There "On page 34, omit all words comprising is no comma. It now reads "product or". lines 11 to 24, both inclusive." When we got into a similar argument some Amendment agreed to. time ago, we were told that there was a comma between the two words. This would Clause 62, as amended, agreed to. then read "product or". What does that mean? I would like an explanation of the Clauses 63 to 69, both inclusive, as read, reason for the amendment. I asked the agreed to. Minister and he said that it was a typo­ Clause 70-Power of Minister to issue graphical error. order for destruction of noxious or non­ Mr. Wharton: The comma is omitted, of indigenous fish- course. Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett­ Mr. BURNS: Let me start again. The Minister for Aboriginal and Islanders amendment reads "by omitting the word Advancement and Fisheries): I move the 'product,' with a v.iew to inserting the words following amendment:- 'product or'.". If we read the clause with "On page 36, line 13, after the word the amendment in it, it says- 'section' insert the figures- "The Governor in Council may, by '65,'." Order in Council for the purposes of this Act, declare, with respect to any species Amendment agreed to. of fish or marine product or, any Queens­ Clause 70, as amended, agreed to. land waters specified in the Order . . ." Clauses 71 to 74, both inclusive, as read, Mr. Wharton: There's no comma after agreed to. "or". Clause 75-Requirement as to carrying licence, permit, certificate or other authority- Mr. BURNS: I will accept the amendment. I do not know what it means. I hope that the fishermen will understand it. Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett­ Minister for Aboriginal and Islanders Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minister Advancement and Fisheries) (9.51 p.m.): I for Aboriginal and Islanders Advancement move the following amendment:- and Fisheries) (9.47 p.m.): For the information "On page 37, insert after line 24 the of the Leader of the Opposition, I point following paragraph:- out that we are taking out the word "product," and inserting the words "product or". 'If the holder is not carrying with him the licence, permit, certificate or Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (9.48 p.m.): I think other authority in accordance with this it is fairly clear what is going to happen. section when called upon to produce it The Governor in Council may, by Order in by a person acting under the aut:hor~ty Council, declare with respect to any species of of this Act, he shall produce it to that fish or any marine product or any Queensland person or another person specified by waters. That is what makes it clear. It gives that person within such time as is pres­ the opportunity to have three divisions. As cribed.'" the Premier said earlier, I am very glad If a person holds a diving licence he has 24 to be able to use my legal expertise to help hours in which to produce it. This is a the Minister out of a hole. similar provision. We will prescribe in the Amendment (Mr. Wharton) agreed to. regulations a particular time within which the licence is to be produced. It will be Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minister appreciated that the holder of the licence for Aboriginal and Islanders Advancement could be out at sea. Originally the holder and Fisheries): I move the following further had to have the licence with him all the amendment:- time. Now he is given time to produce it. "On page 30, line 36, omit the words--­ Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the 'to be'." Opposition) (9.52 p.m.): Might I suggest that Amendment agreed to. something like a month be given? A week Fisheries Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Fisheries Bill 2189 or a few days might not be long enough. (b) the offence in question was com­ Professionals do stay out fishing for a long mitted without his knowledge and time. It may be very difficult for a fisherman he could not by the exercise of to come back to his home port to get his reasonable diligence have prevented licence or to WI'ite to get someone to send the commission of the offence. it to where he is. Fishermen travel a long '(3) The provisions of this section do way from home. The Minister would need not affect the operation of section 7 of to allow the holder of a licence sufficient The Criminal Code in relation to a time to make arrangements to get his licence master or person in charge of a vessel.' " and bring it to where it has to be presented. The reason for the amendment is that just Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett­ as a person is in charge of a property, a Minister for Aboriginal and Islanders master is in charge of his vessel and would Advancement and Fisheries) (9.53 p.m.): I therefore accept the responsibility for the appreciate what the honourable gentleman actions of his employees. The amendment has said. I do not know specifically what will give to him the opportunity to defend period it will be. At least we are going to himself just as it is given to members of his provide time in which to produce the licence. crew. Subclause (3) provides that this clause will Amendment (Mr. Wharton) agreed to. not affect the operation of section 7 of the Clause 75, as amended, agreed to. Criminal Code. It gives him the same Clauses 76 to 82, both inclusive, as read, protection as that in the Criminal Code. agreed to. The master still can be charged for the actions of his employees, but it does not make Clause 83-Detention, forfeiture, disposal it impossible for him to defend himself. of things seized- Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett­ Opposition) (9.57 p.m.): I accept the Min­ Minister for Aboriginal and Islanders ister's concluding remarks that this clause Advancement and Fisheries) (9.54 p.m.): I will not affect the operation of section 7 of move the following amendment:- the Criminal Code. Unfortunately, we do not know what that section provides. But "On page 40, line 31, omit the word as I read the amendment the Minister is 'shall' and insert in lieu thereof the word­ taking out- 'may'." "Where an offence against this Act is Previously it was obligatory. I think mem­ committed by a person employed in or in bers will agree that this is an improvement. connexion with a vessel, the master or Amendment (Mr. Wharton) agreed to. person in charge thereof is guilty of the Clause 83, as amended, agreed to. offence also unless he proves" Clause 84, as read, agreed to. and is inserting- "Where a person employed in or in Clause 85-Liability of master of vessel connexion with a vessel does an act or for offences committed by employees- makes an omission that constitutes an Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Min­ offence against this Act for which he is ister for Aboriginal and Islanders Advance­ criminally responsible, the master or per­ ment and Fisheries) (9.56 p.m.): I move the son in charge of the vessel shall, subject following amendment:- to subsection (2), be taken to have done the act or made the omission and to be "On page 41, omit all words comprising criminally responsible for the offence con­ lines 11 to 19 both inclusive and insert stituted by that act or omission to the in lieu thereof new subclauses as follows- same extent as such employee." '(1) Where a person employed in or Subsection (2) is the same as paragraphs (a) in connexion with a vessel does an act and (b) in the original clause. I should like or makes an omission that constitutes an explanation from the Minister as to why an offence against this Act for which he it is necessary to make provision for this is criminally responsible, the master or criminal responsibility. person in charge of the vessel shall, sub­ ject to subsection (2), be taken to have Surely the draftsmen considered that the done the act or made the omission and original clause covered the master of a to be criminally responsible for the vessel, yet the amendment now spells out offence constituted by that act or omis­ criminal responsibility. Is it put in to give sion to the same extent as such the master a means of escaping from the employee. provisions of this clause? If he does any­ thing that constitutes an offence against the '(2) A master or person in charge Act, he should be as responsible as the shall not be guilty of an offence pur­ crew. I should not like to think that the suant to section (1) if- master was able to place the blame on the (a) he has issued proper instructions deck hand for an offence under the Act. and used all reasonable means to I want to make certain that the amend­ secure the observance of this Act; ment does not give the master some loop­ and hole. 2190 Fisheries Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Fisheries Bill

Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Min­ cheque came back, with all the things that ister for Aboriginal and Islanders Advance­ happened before I got the money, I do ment and Fisheries) (9.59 p.m.): A master is not think I would have much trouble In in charge of his vessel and if one of his proving that the product was not mine. employees were to take, say, some clam meat from the reef, the master is the one I now move the following amendment:­ who would be charged. However, he may in "On page 43, omit all words compris- his defence show that his employee acted ing lines 29 to 33 both inclusive." contrary to his instructions and that he is therefore not guilty of the offence as Amendment agreed to. charged. Under the clause as it stands Clause SS, as amended, agreed to. in the Bill, if the employee is guilty, so, too, is the master guilty. Clauses 89 to 93, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Amendment (Mr. Wharton) agreed to. Clause S5, as amended, agreed to. Schedules 1 to 4, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Clauses S6 and S7, as read, agreed to. Fifth Schedule- Clause SS-Evidentiary provisions- Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Opposition) (10.4 p.m.): Just briefly, I want Opposition) (10 p.m.): I am interested in to restate the proposal I put forward in subclause (h). It seems to me that if I the second reading about records. Hardly am consigning fish illegally from the Towns­ anyone in the primary producing field today ville Railway Station, I am not going to is not starting to complain about the paper put "Tom Burns" on the case. I will put war conducted between Government depart­ "Claudie Wharton". I raised this matter in ments and the farmer or the fisherman. the second reading. The subclause states- I believe that, before any regulations are "(h) evidence that fish or marine products written in relation to the keeping of records were received at a fish market or other by fishermen and others for statistical and place of sale or at a railway station other purposes, we ought to ensure that we or an office of any person or body are not overloading the man whose job it is engaged in transporting goods or materials to catch fish. In essence, that is what he in the name of a person as consignor goes to sea for. He does not want to shall be evidence and, in the absence of spend most of his time filling out forms, evidence to the contrary, conclusive giving details and things like that. One of evidence that the fish or marine products the greatest steps we can take to stop the were taken and consigned by that growth of bureaucracy is to ensure that person,". regulations require the least amount of paper­ work possible. That means that if I consign it in the Minister's name-put his name on the box­ I make this plea because I know a number that shall be evidence that he did it, and of fishermen who have not had a good he will be required to prove his innocence. education. Quite truthfully they are fear­ Shouldn't it be the other way round? ful that they will have to hire an account­ Shouldn't the onus be on the police to prove ant to maintain their business when all they that the Minister did it, rather than on the really want to do is mend their nets, get Minister to prove that he is innocent of to sea, catch some fish, get them to market, the charge? It seems to me that anyone make a dollar or two and, for recreation, acting in contravention of that clause of the have a cold beer on a Friday night. Bill would certainly not put his name on the fish. If the Minister wants to become Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minis­ difficult, I will get hold of a carton of ter for Aboriginal and Islanders Advance­ mullet next week and send it somewhere in ment and Fisheries) {10.6 p.m.): I accept and the Minister's name and so test the Act. appreciate what the Leader of the Opposition It will then be the Minister's job to prove has said. We do not want to create a great that he did not do it. I do not think deal of extra work for anybody. Regulations that that is in accordance with British jus­ are necessary and I assure the honourable tice. A person should not have to prove member that they will be up to date and as himself innocent. The police should have simple as possible. to prove him guilty. Fifth Schedule, as read, agreed to. Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minister Bill reported, with amendments. for Aboriginal and Islanders Advancement and Fisheries) (10.2 p.m.): This is a neces­ sary clause because, as the Leader of the RECOMMITTAL Opposition knows, undersized crabs have (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. been sent to the Sydney market. People Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) have consigned them from various railway stations. If the Leader of the Opposition Bill recommitted for purpose of recon­ sent some fish down in my name and the sidering clauses 5, 1S and 20. Fisheries Bill [7 DECEMBER 1976] Fisheries Bill 2191

Clause 5-Non-application of Act- a reasonable period of time to sort out their catch before any action is taken. I suppose Mr. LAMOND (Wynnum) (10.8 p.m.): I there could then be a Jot of argument later move the following amendment- about how long the crabs have been in the "On page 3, after line 18, insert the boat. How does a person prove how long following words:- he has had them in the boat? That is a '(b) the unintentional having in posses­ difficult matter, but at least it is an answer sion of fish or marine products of to some of the problems experienced by any species of a less size than that sand-crabbers in the bay in the last 12 prescribed in respect of that species months. or of fish or marine products that They say they do not take the crabs out are otherwise protected by or under of the pots immediately because they are this Act where the person having then struggling. If they are allowed to sit in possession such fish or marine for a while, most of them will try to crawl products has been unable owing to out or work their way out, except those in circumstances beyond his control a suicide dilly. Those in an ordinary crab to return them to the water pot will settle down and they can then be immediately after he first had them sorted. Obviously there is need to allow a in possession and has not in the reasonable amount of time before a person meantime wilfully subjected them can be charged by an inspector. to injury;'." I have moved that amendment because there Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minis­ ter for Aboriginal and Islanders Advance­ is no doubt that irrespective of whether the people concerned in the field of fishing are ment and Fisheries) (10.12 p.m.): I accept .the professionals or amateurs, they could find amendment. themselves in circumstances where under the Amendment (Mr. Lamond) agreed to. Bill they would be, if not morally guilty, most Clause 5, as amended, agreed to. certainly legally guilty. After a line or net fisherman or a person using some other Clause 18-Powers of inspector- type of device brings a fish of whatever species it may be into a boat, whether it be Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minis­ for a moment or for a matter of minutes, ter for Aboriginal and Islanders Advance­ he has that fish in his possession and there ment and Fisheries) (10.13 p.m.): I move the is no doubt that, although it is his intention following amendment:- to return that particular creature to the sea, "On page 12, line 31, omit the words­ time does not permit him to do so before 'and, if he considers it necessary, to he is accosted, shall I say, by an inspector. sign a declaration of the truth of his While I feel that he is morally innocent, he answers'." most certainly would be legally guilty. I This was in the original Bill and I feel now feel that, without an amendment such as that it is not necessary. Accordingly, the that I have moved, many people would be words are being omitted. treated unjustly. Amendment (Mr. Wharton) agreed to. Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Min­ Opposition) (10.10 p.m.): This is quite a ister for Aboriginal and Islanders Advance­ good amendment. I am, however, a bit ment and Fisheries) (10.14 p.m.): I move the concerned about some of the procedures. following further amendment:- I can recall a case heard in the Magistrates "On page 15, insert after line 17 the Court in Cleveland not long ago that con­ following subclause- cerned a sand-crab operator. He had moved along his line of pots and had picked them '(5) A person is not obliged under up and taken them in to his small motor this Act to answer any question or give boat. As he was turning about to move any information or evidence tending to off and sort out the crabs, an inspector came criminate him.' " alongside and said to him, "You've got Marys I feel that this is necessary because it takes and undersized crabs in your dilly." away the onus on a person to prove that he is innocent. I feel that a person should not be It takes a little time to get the crabs out. required to answer any question or give any Generally crabbers take up the pots, clear information, as is the case in all other pro­ them, and move back down the line setting ceedings. them again. This fellow was legally in possession of the small crabs and Marys, Amendment (Mr. Wharton) agreed to. but in reality he was merely going about his Clause 18, as amended, agreed to. normal business. Quite truthfully, a person Clause 20-0ffences with respect to m­ in such a position intends to have the crabs spectors and honorary rangers- in his possession until he is able to sort them out and I suppose that is the way it has to The CHAIRMAN: Order! There are three be interpreted. However, fishing inspectors amendments to be moved to this clause. Is would have to exercise some discretion. It it the wish of the Committee that they be is easy for an inspector to be very difficult. moved together? Somehow or other it has to be made clear to inspectors that people have to be given Honourable Members: Hear, hear! 2192 Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

Hon. C. A. WHARTON (Burnett-Minis­ and dismay of honourable members opposite ter for Aboriginal and Islanders Advance­ or to compare the contribution of the Leader ment and Fisheries) (10.15 p.m.): I move of the Opposition with that of his deputy the following amendment:- who, whilst he did not properly understand "On page 16, omit all words comprising the Government's intention, nevertheless did lines 1 to 3 both inclusive." adopt a far more responsible stance. I move the following further amendment:­ The Leader of the Opposition spoke on "On page 16, omit all words compris­ everything from Medibank to indexation, to ing lines 6 to 1 0 both inclusive." devaluation, to building societies, to the appointment of Ministers. He canvassed the I move the following further amendment:­ whole, tired range of "worker-bashing", "the "On page 16, lines 11 and 12, omit the Government is trying to create strikes" and words- "Police State". Rarely have I heard such 'the proof of which shall lie upon arrant nonsense. Consequently, when I him'." checked against my "Hansard" proof to see if there was anything relevant to the Bill As with the previous amendments, this takes to which I could speak today, it was not the onus of proof away from the person surprising that I found virtually nothing. involved. I feel that it makes the Bill So that is the amount of time I intend to better from everyone's point of view. It is devote to the honourable member's exercise still practical and still capable of implemen­ in nothingness, except to refer to his comment tation, but at the same time it does take the that the Medibank levy strike was not a onus of proof away from the person involved. political strike and that money was being Amendments (Mr. Wharton) agreed to. taken out of the workers' pockets. Clause 20, as amended, agreed to. The Labor Party is quite hypocritical in Bill reported, with further amendments. its attitude to the Medibank levy. It obviously approved of Mr. Hayden's magical 1.35 per cent tax charge even though it knew that Scotton and Deebles' calculations on INDUSTRIAL CONCILIATION AND which it was based were widely astray. ARBITRATION ACT AMENDMENT But because Prime Minister Fraser has fol­ BILL {No. 2) lowed Mr. Hayden's lead, the Medibank levy is suddenly unacceptable to the La'bor Party. SECOND READING What Mr. Hayden proposed was quite all right. What Mr. Fraser now implements is Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister no good. for Industrial Development, Labour Relations and Consumer Affairs) (10.17 p.m.): I move- The honourable member for Rockhampton North described my introduction of this Bill "That the Bill be now read a second as the action of a reluctant maiden. I should time." like to disabuse his mind. I cannot recall During the introductory debate this House ever having bowled a maiden over. I am saw what must have been the most dis­ overwhelmingly in favour of this legislation. graceful performance ever by a Leader of It is entirely consistent with the Government's the Opposition. Here we were discussing policy of amencling the Industrial Conciliation most important industrial legislation, yet the and Arbitration Act whenever circumstances performance of the Leader of the Opposition dictate. And few citizens would deny that resembled the type of rabble-rousing act-- the circumstances for firm-not harsh-action exist. Mr. Burns: Who, me? No Government worth its salt could pos­ Mr. CAMPBEI,L: Yes, you. This was an sibly risk the people of North Queensland act that he might have given at the Roma being deprived of power again or a whole Street forum when he was an organiser for community at Mary Kathleen being ruth­ the E.T.U. lessly denied its right to live and work. If Oppos-ition members believe that unions Mr. Burns: I was never an organiser for should be able to cause personal chaos and the E.T.U. That's a fib. hardship, let them stand and say so. If they say that unions which enjoy the protection Mr. CAMPBELL: The Leader of the of the court in terms of hours, wages and Opposition should read "Hansard". conditions of work have no obligation to abide by the rules of that court, they are Empty rhetoric or, in this case, noise­ advocating one-way law. never a substitute for constructive argument -brings this House into disrepute. But when The honourable member for Rockhampton it is compounded by complete disregard of North accused the Government of total mis­ the Chair by a Leader of the Opposition, understanding of how to handle industrial who is supposed to set an example to his disputes-implying, of course, that the A.L.P. followers, one wonders where it is going to does. The statement reminded me of one end. It was little satisfaction to members of the specious reasons advanced for the on this side to watch the embarrassment election of the late, but not lamented, Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2193

Federal Labor Government. "Industrial dis­ "'We talk to employers, but encourage putes will virtually disappear because of our our delegates to take a bias against them. harmonious relations with the union move­ We don't try to breed a sense of fair­ ment", they said. There followed, as we all mindedness in our membership'. know, one of ~he most disgraceful periods "Mr. Gallagher told her he was pleased in Australia's industrial history. that his union had played a part in the What went wrong? What would State collapse of Mainline, the building contrac­ Labor do that Federal Labor would not or tor. could not do? By the comments of the "'It couldn't have happened to a nicer Opposition in this debate to date-nothing! pack of buggers', he said." So it is not really surprising that only four honourable members opposite spoke These are the classic stances of two Com­ during the introductory debate on a measure munist union leaders. Does the honourable that they variously describe as "provocative", member really believe talking nicely to them "backward", "retrograde" and so on. They will change them? condemn and offer nothing; they waffle and Despite what I have said, however, I thank talk on everything except what they would the honourable member for his considered do. Consequently, one presumes that the and well-researched contribution. citizens of Queensland are entitled to assume that if the A.L.P. ever became the Govern­ Now I shall pass from the honourable ment in the dim and very distant future, it member for Rockhampton North-and cer­ would not lift a finger to deal with industrial tainly over the Leader of the Opposition­ lawlessness. and comment briefly on the thoughts of the honourable member for Cairns. There was I s~ress again that the provisions of this much in what he said with which I heartily Bill will not be applied indiscriminately. I agree. He said employers have powers stress again that they protect responsible which they did not use in recent disputes. unions and unionists from the flow-on effects I concur. He said that when people get into of actions by the few who believe themselves trouble, they want the Government to inter­ to be a law unto ~hemselves. vene. Again I concur. He said that if we The honourable member for Rockhampton start bypassing our properly set up Industrial North did make the refreshing admission Commission and our conciliation and arbitra­ that many disputes in Queensland, parti­ tion laws, we get into a lot of trouble. I cularly in recent times, have extended far could not possibly agree more. I quote him: too long. He said also that the trade union "We can see that once we bypass the courts, movement has to look at what it is doing in whether they be industrial, criminal or civil prolonged strikes. But the best he could courts, we start to get into hot water." I offer as indus~rial poHcy was that the Gov­ only wish that the honourable member would ernment should get round the table and talk take those sentiments to the unions and wi~h unionists and union officials. union leaders to whom this legislation is I venture to suggest that there are some directed. unions and union officials who are not I might add that one of these days the interested in industrial peace, whose sole aim Trades and Labor Council will refuse to and purpose is to cause division and support a dispute and everyone will fall over economic loss. What would the honourable in amazement. Be that as it may, I agree member do about them if he were in Gov­ with the honourable member when he says ~nment? Just talk nicely to them? it is not always a union's fault that there is In last Sunday's edition of the Sydney a strike. I have made that comment "Sunday Telegraph" there was a classic repeatedly. example. An article canvassed a book written I am a constant advocate of talk-talk by a Mrs. Pat Huntley, former journalist and between employer and employee, talk author. The book's title is "Inside Australia's between employer and union, talk between Top Hundred Unions-Are They Wrecking employee and union. Communication is so the Country?" The articles contained this often the key to an on-site dispute that it interesting segment- must be accepted by all sides as natural "The toughest union leaders interviewed and normal. It is when unions move in and were John Halfpenny, controversial boss direct unionists to strike or threaten to ban of the Amalgamated Metal Workers' their product, without consultation or ballot Union, and Norm Gallagher, Federal Sec­ -as in Mary Kathleen-that unionists them­ retary of the Builders Labourers' Federa­ selves must ask whose side their officials tion. are on. "The AMWU has the worst strike record As the honourable member said, unionists in Australia, being involved in 30 per cent resent interference in their affairs. How great of all disputes, while representing only 3 must their resentment at Mary Kathleen be per cent of the Australian work force. when an outside union, say the A.R.U. "Mr. Halfpenny admitted he was not which has no membership actually engaged interested in promoting industrial peace. in mining at Mary Kathleen, interferes with "He said: 'There is no common ground their livelihood and stated wishes. And they between employer and employee. Interests cannot express their resentment or make a coincide only by accident. protest to the Trades and Labor Council 2194 Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) because the Trades and Labor Council itself his argument about the legislation, but gave had interfered by backing a ban on uranium us a Cook's tour of what he considered oxide production. So the honourable the to have happened in this Chamber. Some member for Cairns, while making good of his comments were totally unrelated to points, must find it difficult to put side by the Bill and in no way reinforced his side his advocacy of non-intervention and argument. the practices of the supreme State union body. As I indicated at the introductory stage, if the Government wished to reduce industrial Finally, I turn to the speech of the disputation it would not have introduced this Deputy Leader of the Opposition. He started Bill. Like much of similar preceding legisla­ off regretting that "we hear the same old tion, it is unworkable because its imple­ speeches from the Government side time mentation will provoke confrontation and after time". Unfortunately, he then sought disputation. his inspiration in the past, and started with my predecessor four times removed, and It is ironical that on the very day that quoted extensively what has been said since the Queensland media reported the intro­ 1959. While it was an interesting historical ductory remarks of the Minister and myself exercise, he still did not come up with any both Mr. Street and Mr. Chipp, the Minister's solution to today's problems, nor did he sug­ Federal counterparts, advocated caution in gest what a Labor Government would do. relation to any head-on collision with the trade union movement. They suggested that I should like to comment briefly on an article in Monday's "Courier-Mail". The no Government should act in the way that article listed a few major provisions of the the Queensland Government was acting. They Bill such as stand-downs, removal of tort, urged that at this time we could well do deregistration for non-compliance, wider without confrontation such as that which power for the Industrial Commission and this legislation will bring about. The narrow secret ballots. Quite ludicrous comment from gap between the Government and the unions three union officials, however, was that these will be widened by this Bill. new industrial laws would react in their Every year since 1971 until the present favour-not against them. I am afraid I time the President of the Industrial Court in cannot follow their reasoning. Even Federal Queensland is on record as having said, unions operating in Queensland now lose "There have been no prolonged industrial immunity from being sued for civil damages stoppages during the year." That comment under this legislation. As I said at the intro­ ductory stage, this is brought about by the can be interpreted in only one way. activities of a very small minority. The Bill provides among other things for Moreover, as I said in an answer to a the automatic stand-down of workers who question last week, 77 unions of employees cannot be gainfully employed. In other words, are registered in the State Industrial Court. an employer can stand down a worker for Twenty-three of these have State registration an indefinite period when it is considered only, and the remainder-54-have some that the employer is not responsible for the additional form of Federal affiliation. This cause of the stand-down. The Minister said would appear to throw into relief the claim that such a cause would be a natural disaster. by the Transport Workers' Union secretary My point is that these causes are not limited (Mr. Bevis) that about SO per cent of unions by the Bill. here have Federal registration. I would suggest that, when the Industrial Additionally, I would counsel Queens­ Court is called upon to interpret the stand­ landers to look closely at moves to get out down provisions, it should not refer to the from under this legislation by going Minister's statements in this House. What Federal. In very many instances State would be the position if, because of a fire awards are considerably better than Federal in the warehouse of a supplier, materials awards. did not arrive at a factory? It could be said Workers would do well to remember that that the fire was beyond the control of the they could get hurt by the overriding desire owner of the factory and that therefore he of irresponsible leaders to place themselves could stand down thousands of his workers. in a position from which they can continue Similarly, what happens when it rains? Does industrial disruption. It could be at their the Bill mean that workers can lose pay as expense. the result of wet weather? After all, an I have not commented on the contributions employer has no control over the rain. of the Government members, which have It is impossible to imagine the number of been quite valuable, but I thank them for situations that could arise as the result of their support. inclement weather. There are hundreds of agreements in Queensland and the Common­ Mr. YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) wealth covering employment in wet weather, (10.30 p.m.): I am at a loss in trying to but I cannot see anywhere in the Bill any follow the Minister's reasoning. Tonight when provision that clarifies the situation. he rose to his feet he immediately gave a resume of what the Leader of the Opposi­ The Bill contains certain provisions that tion presented to the Assembly at the_intro­ I would regard as necessary ingredients for ductory stage. He said nothing to reinforce a dispute. The first is the provision that an Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2195

employer may stand down an employee Mr. YEWDALE: Yes, I agree with the because of the occurrence of anything for honourable member for Mackay. This order which the employer is not responsible. reads- "(a) No employee shall be deemed to be Another ingredient is the phrase "usefully a casual employee by reason only of employed". What does it mean? That phrase being given intermittent work in is not defined. There are many jobs and pursuance of this order. tasks in industry, some of which are more useful than others. Wben does a particular "(b) Notice of such standing down shall be task become useless? Will the Bill allow an exhibited in a conspicuous place in employer to send a machinist home because, the plant or factory concerned or perhaps as a result of a train derailment, shall be given verbally or in writing a vital component has not arrived from the to the employees concerned or any supplier? Could the manager decide that if of them. he were to switch an employee to sweeping "(c) Service is not to be considered broken up or to cleaning duties he would be per­ merely because employees have been forming a useless task? temporarily stood down in accord­ ance with this order. The automatic stand-down provisions apply even if the employer has made an agreement "(d) In the case of employees stood to the contrary or the Industrial Commission down pursuant to this order who has inserted certain specific provisions in an resume work with the employer not award. Even though the unions, the employer later than seven days after the expir­ and the court have come to an agreement, ation of the period of this order, the employer is able to override that agree­ service shall be regarded as contin­ ment simply by claiming that a certain task uous for the purposes of annual is useless or by presenting some other argu­ leave, holidays and sick leave as ment in support of his claim that he cannot prescribed by the Industrial Concilia­ gainfully employ his workers. tion and Arbitration Act 1961-1976 and the relevant award or industrial Jt is suggested that an employer will be agreement. able to stand down a worker for any period "(e) Employees allowed or required to from one hour to one month. Thus, a commence work on any day shall be worker could be sent home without a full paid for at least four hours and day's pay and he may never know when where they are called upon to attend the next day's pay is arriving. How many for duty twice on any one day they employers could use that course of action? shall be paid not less than a full I believe that this is a fourth ingredient for day's pay. dispute in this Bill. "(f) Any employee stood down pursuant to Some industries already have virtually this order may elect to treat notice of automatic stand-down provisions. Meat­ such stand down as being notice of processing and building industry workers termination of engagement where­ always face the prospect of being without upon the employer shall comply with work on a day's notice, or in some cases the provisions of the relevant award even an hour's notice. This legislation can or industrial agreement as if the only spread this instability and insecurity employer had substituted notice of to every other industry. termination of engagement for notice of stand down in the case of any I believe that responsible union officials employee exercising such right of attempt to confine disputes to a particular election. area. Automatic and sudden stand-downs could involve a complete industry and lead "(g) Nothing in this order shall be deemed to escalation of disputes. Again, that is to preclude an employee from termin­ a valid point. Something of a minor nature ating his contract of employment by could in a short period develop into a mutual agreement or in accordance State-wide issue. with the provisions of the relevant award or industrial agreement during The Industrial Commission has powers to the period of any stand down pur­ order stand-downs under the present law. suant to this order. Naturally, the commission is responsible in "(h) Any employee whom the employer its approach to stand-downs. Such orders proposes to stand down under this are given subject to very stringent condi­ order shall be entitled to elect to take tions and qualifications, and are usually for any annual leave to which he is then a defined period of time. At this stage I ask entitled or which is accruing to him, leave of the House to have included in or any part thereof. "Hansard" a typical Industrial Commission stand-down order. "(i) Notwithstanding anything herein con­ tained an employer who has stood (Leave granted.) down any employee in pursuance of this order shall not be entitled to Mr. Casey: That's better than you did last deduct payment for any day pre­ time. scribed by the award as a public 2196 Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

holiday, which occurs during the to the latest available Australian Bureau of period in which such employee is Statistics figures, for the six months to June stood down. 1976 managerial policy was responsible for "G) This order shall not apply to the 37.1 per cent of days lost through industrial Commissioner for Railways and his disputes. That illustrates what I am saying employees covered by the Railway about two parties being involved in a dis­ Award-State and the Railway pute. Refreshment Rooms Award-State nor to any employees covered by the Mr. Wright: The next figure will prob­ Regional Electricity Boards and the ably be more like 60 per cent. Authority of Queensland Salaried Officers A ward. Mr. YEWDALE: I am being very conser­ "(k) This order shall operate on and from vative and quoting the figures supplied by noon on 28 October 1976 and shall the Bureau of Statistics. remain in force for a period of one Removal of this civil immunity will allow month or until the date on which the employers to threaten legal action if a strike order of the State Electricity Com­ occurs. This would place an intolerable mission of Queensland dated 26 Oct­ burden on unions in respect of legitimate ober 1976 is revoked, whichever is claims where an employer refuses to discuss the earlier, the issue. Allowing an employer the right and the Commission so orders. to sue for damages because of a strike or ban could open the door to the destruction "In doing so, the Commission wishes to of the present industrial conciliation and direct to the attention of the parties to arbitration system in the State. The first the fact that the exclusion of the employees employer who sues a union will set the governed by the Regional Electricity stage for a union to sue an employer. Boards etc. Award coincides with the fact t?at as reported by Mr. Green, an applica­ Another interesting aspect is deregistration. tiOn was filed by the employers for a stand Unions of employers can register under the down provision in that award, and arrange­ present Act, but the fact of life is that very ments have been made for that to be few of them are registered. Most unions of heard by the Appropriate Commissioner employers are not registered, yet they are on Wednesday next at 10 o'clock." the ones who are always claiming the benefits of the conciliation and arbitration system. I would like to comment briefly on this These unregistered unions of employers type of stand-down order. It- receive the same rights and benefits as a (1) Protects the permanancy status of registered union of workers. An unregistered wo~kers stood down for the purpose of union of employers can file applications and holidays such an annual leave public- notices of motion in the State commission holiday pay and so on; ' opposing claims of registered workers' (2) Guarantees minimum work per day; unions. If industrial law compels trade (3) Allows a worker to leave without unions to register with the State commission, losing entitlements; and there is no valid reason why a union of employers should not be compelled to register (4) Requires the stand-down order to be also. Again I think that is a valid argu­ prominently displayed on the premises. ment. In using that example I believe we This legislation does nothing of the kind. find a double set of standards in the law It virtually gives an employer complete dis­ -compelling a union of employees to register cretion to stand down anyone any way he while not compelling a union of employers likes. to register. Clause 4 refers to civil immunities. I will The Bill allows the Minister to direct the not go into too much detail, but it would commission to order a secret ballot. In seem to me that civil immunities could be his introductory speech the Minister sug­ another recipe for industrial unrest. This gested the absurd possibility of directing a blanket repeal will allow some employers secret ballot on a decision to work to somewhere in Queensland to use this provi­ regulations. My interpretation of that state­ sion without the possible influence of at least ment is that the Minister is suggesting that the more responsible Ministers in the Cab­ workers may be breaking the law while they inet. A single employer could bring the work. He is saying that a secret ballot whole of Queensland's industry, trade and can be ordered when employees are working commerce to a halt. All the Minister can to regulations. I do not see how the say is he is "sorry for the overwhelming Minister can promulgate regulations to sug­ majority of responsible unions". All I can gest that a secret ballot should be held say in reply to that is that I am sorry for so that workers cannot work to regulations. the backward mentality of the Minister and The Government or the Minister should look his Government on this issue. at that particular aspect. Any dispute, of course, causes economic As I said in my introductory speech, I harm, and disputes should be kept to a mini­ believe there are problems in the industrial mum. Disputes are not caused by workers arena in the State and in the Common­ alone. I think it must be agreed that there wealth. There is something wrong with any­ are often two parties to a dispute. According one who wants to argue with that or deny Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2197 it. I believe that the employers, the employees The honourable member for Rockhampton and the unions are trying in the late 1970s North talks about responsible trade union if I may use the term, to get togethe/ leaders. Are the men whose statements were On the national scene in the past few days published in the Press yesterday responsible we saw a genuine effort by the president trade union leaders? The ebullient Mr. Bevis, of the A.C.T.U. to do something about it. of the Transport Workers' Union, said that I do not believe that the legislation will the legislation would apply only to a solve the problem. Anyone with experience minority of unions in Queensland and that can study previous amendments brought it was an insult and a vote of no confidence before this Assembly, even in recent times in the State Industrial Commission. The act­ dealing with the law of tort, and realise ing secretary of the :Electrical Trades Union, that there is some validity in the words Mr. Vaughan, said that the legislation was of the honourable member for Cairns that another step towards a complete dictatorship employers are not prone to invoke certain in Queensland. That is very responsible stuff, rights that they have. It would seem to isn't it? Then a Mr. Dunne, of the Austra­ me that, in the interests of harmony and lian Railways Union, said that there was no of continuing the work-force in a productive possibility of the Government's bludgeoning atmosphere, they refrain from invoking those workers into submission. rights. This is a Bill that does no more than If I remember correctly, the Minister said ensure that the rank and file will have better that they were looking for a militant minority. control of their affairs than they have had The trade union movement functions by a before. Mr. Dunne went on to say, "If the set of rules that are registered in the Indus­ Premier thinks his tactics are going to bring trial Conciliation and Arbitration Com­ a peaceful industrial atmosphere, he mission. has been badly misinformed by his industrial advisers." In other words, The Act contains many provisions that he is saying, "You leave us alone allow the court to move in and take action or you will have trouble." One is for instance on an application by an employer bound to ask why there is this spurious and/ or the Government. I believe it is a fury and insensate rage. Why do these men weakness in the sense that these provisions roar like tigers baulked of their prey? The have not been used in the past. Dis­ answer is very easy to find. They do these putes do not drag on for a long period things because the Bill makes it just that before the employer, the Government or much harder for Left-wing sawdust Caesars someone else decides to request a com­ to maintain the quite extraordinarily privi­ pulsory conference or a commissioner moves leged positions that they have built up for in and talks to the people in that area. themselves over the years. Inevitably the disputes tend to fall apart after this action is taken. Probably both We get, of course, as we now get from parties are looking for some area where the Opposition, the proposition that unions they can sit down and discuss the differences are something special; that they have a place that caused the actual conflict in the first in the scheme of things which puts them place. beyond any sort of reasonable control; that they should be allowed to conduct their own At a time when the country is in dif­ affairs; and that Governments should not ficult economic circumstances, when we have interfere with them. I suggest that when rising costs and orices and the imposition unions act so as to put members of other on the workers of any number of financial unions out of work; when they act so as to burdens for both political and commercial impose hardship and suffering on the general reasons, we should be looking to better community; when they move to sweep aside ways and means of resolving this problem decisions properly made by elected Govern­ between the trade union movement and the ments, as is happening now with increasing Government. I repeat that the Government ferocity and it has been generating in this will not achieve this objective by introducing direction over the years, no Government and continuing to introduce legislation of can stand by meek and acquiescent and let this nature that will gather cobwebs in them get away with murder. pigeon-holes. If some trade unions or their leaders Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (10.44 p.m.): Since the introduction of this Bill we have want to act like an invading army and use had, of course, quite the predictable reaction. scorched-earth tactics into the bargain, treat­ We have had "The Courier-Mail" in an ing their fellow citizens as members of a editorial having its usual 20c each way. We hostile force, they have to be dealt with. have had approval from the community in They have to be contained. This legislation general. From the A.L.P. and from some is simple and moderate and helps to do that union leaders we have had wholesale con­ containing. The Bill is good for people; it is demnation in the most purple prose imaain­ good for unions; and it is good for produc­ able, violent denunciation and, of cou~se tivity. It is bad news only for those wilful blatant misinformation. The Minister him: and, perhaps in the old-fashioned sense, self exposed one example when it was sug­ gested that the overwhelming majority of wicked men who want to manipulate trade trade-unionists were under Federal jurisdic­ unions as instruments of coercion and black­ tion. In fact, the reverse is the case. mail. 2198 Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

The great thrust of trade union argument, suggested in the Bill is not a valid argument, which is repeated monotonously by the and I am therefore putting up these instances Opposition and Left-wing leaders, is that to show that that argument is, indeed, an trade unions do a superb job in bringing invalid one. benefits to workers; that, indeed, without The only point I wanted to make is that their activities workers would never get any it can be proved conclusively, and statistically, benefits. All the benefits are gained by that militant trade-unionism does not mark­ militant union efforts and, because they edly improve the workers' share of .the gross achieve these results, they are in a special national product. This is tied in with in­ category. They are sacrosanct; they should creased productivity, and increased produc­ not be touched. They should be above the tivity must tend to be illusory, so that there law, above the Government, and beyond the is no reason at all why any Government­ reach of any of the restraints that apply to this Government or any other-should see every other person and organisation in the trade union movement as some sort of society. holy of holies which must not even be The honourable member for Rockhampton talked about in any rough or crude way, North made much of this when talking about let alone restricted, controlled or directed in the provisions that remove the previous the community good. The same thing immunity against actions for tort. I want to applies throughout the world. In Sweden, say that the provisions in the Bill are where arrangements between unions and entirely proper and the arguments against the Government were such that unions simply them are quite unacceptable. Indeed, not did not strike-were not allowed to strike only the arguments but the contentions on -their share of the G.N.P. kept pace with which they are based are not tenable. I said the increase in productivity, just as it did in at the introductory stage of the Bill that Australia where there has been militant quite a number of studies done in this and unionism. other countries demonstrate that union efforts The plain fact is that much of the virtues do not get for workers a greater share of that are ascribed to the trade union effort the gross national product. are so much myth which is carefully guarded, So that members will know that I am sedulously fostered and very fiercely not making up any empty arguments in defended, but it is myth all the same, so in this regard-they can go to the sources the interests of the over-all community and themselves and check them-I would refer trade-unionists (who are also members of them to the standard book on this subject, the community) in particular, this Bill is which is "The Structure of the Australian necessary and desirable and achieves a very Economy" by Karmel and Brunt. I refer useful end indeed. I am surprised that it them to the chapter on "Income Distribu­ should be attacked by anybody, least of all tion". Cheek of the Australian National by members of the Opposition, and they University has produced a very good work would do well politically to reconsider their on "Profit Margins and Wage Shares in Aus­ position and recognise that the Government tralian Manufactures 1945-55" and there is doing the best thing for the people from is a very good book by V. L. Allen on whom they expect to draw their political "Militant Trade Unionism". strength. The general weight of the arguments con­ Mr. JONES (Cairns) (10.54 p.m.): I think tained in these and other works is that the predictable reaction to the predictable trade-unionism has not succeeded in chang­ prose from the honourable member for ing appreciably over 50 years the wage Toowong is that it is not easy to find within share of the gross national product. There these provisions before us tonight that this are a number of statistical tables provided Bill does give autonomy to the rank and in these various works which bear this out. file. I find it very difficult indeed to read In fact, there are only two ways to obtain that into the Bill. If this legislation were any sort of gain in living standards for designed to prevent strikes or to resolve trade-unionists. One, and a safe one, is disputes, it would be welcomed by the pub­ general technological advances, which raise lic, management and the unions, but in this over-all standards, and the other one, of regard it is a disappointment. It is not course, is a redistribution of incomes, which designed to resolve strikes, and it will fail means an encroachment on profits. in this regard. The Bill appears to deal with the subject­ Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. matters of industrial disputation, post-strike Hewitt): Order! The honourable member is stand-downs, orders by a commissioner, moving away from the subject-matter of show"cause clauses and deregistration. The the second-reading debate. answer to strike prevention lies in action in the pre-deadlock period-before the stale­ Mr. PORTER: I accept your ruling, Mr. mate arises-not in the post-deadlock period. Deputy Speaker. I was endeavouring to Arbitration commissions and courts come postulate that the proposals in the Bill are into their own after deadlock. They have the essential because the proposition that unions power and authority to act and should always should not be touched or 'restricted or be free from Government intervention or inhibited or controlled in the various ways undue influence or pressure from any quarter. Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2199

The unions manage to conduct their own taken. Action is taken as a result of a con­ affairs quite well without interference. Like sensus of the men directly involved at that other institutions in our democratic society point. and system, they are not perfect-we all It is at this stage that we should be know that-but sometimes they gain strength endeavouring to resolve industrial disputation from their imperfections. On rare occasions -at the first glow of the dispute before it they may act irresponsibly; but so do other spreads into a raging bush-fire. At this stage democratic institutions. Machinery is pro­ it is not always the intention to go out on vided in the Act to contain those acts of strike. It is not devious, but it is a fact of irresponsibility, and the Minister has admitted industrial life that they do walk off the that. They are there, but they are not always job at this point. If a dispute is given an taken advantage of by employers, unions, immediate hearing at this point, the action unionists, employees and others. will not be fail-safe but it will be an improve­ The Minister admits that we cannot legis­ ment, and many strikes, plus the compl!ca­ late for harmony in industrial situations or tions arising from men being off the JOb, industrial relations in this State. rndustrial will thus be avoided. Conciliation at this relations and industrial harmony are point goes a long way towards preventing a developed, in my opinion, by mutual trust strike. Surely that is what the game is all on the part of both management and unions about. That is what industrial relations are -management and labour-and mainly all about. through the industrial tribunals. The good I believe we should have roving commis­ will of the Government should also be sioners--call them what you will-who could included. go into an area as trouble-shooters and talk to the men on the job. Let them conciliate I believe that "co-operation" is the key and arbitrate at that point with management word, and personally the Minister honestly and labour. I do not believe that penalties endeavours to engender that spirit within the of stand-downs, suspensions and fines will realms of his portfolio. I say to him that it resolve industrial issues. They will not change is pleasing that in this respect we have found the minds of the men if they decide to go common ground during the course of the out on strike. The ordinary man on the debate. Lamentably, other forces working shop floor has got to be involved. He at Government level seek to aggravate and wants to participate and have a say in his destroy the spirit of co-operation. The own destiny. We wants his right of audience honourable member for Toowong said in his at that level to be honoured. Whether it argument that unions should be interfered is on the shop floor, at management or with and controlled, and the provisions of board level, or in the Industrial Commis­ this Bill are designed to do just that. As I sioner's deliberations, I believe that the crux understood it, that was the argument that he of all consideration of industrial disputation espoused. I believe that he was on the com­ is looking at the events that led up to the mittee that made these recommendations. dispute not at deregistration, standing down The Minister mentioned that the Queens­ people 'and all the other penalties contained land Industrial Commission's jurisdiction is in the Bill after the strike has occurred and limited to State-registered unions, and I do the bush-fire has raged through and every­ not know whether he said that in frustration, body is black, burnt and hurt. What is hope, or rebuttal. However, I trust that the needed is early consideration of the industrial measure will help to improve industrial dispute where it arises on the .shop floor. relations. If the Minister puts forward these If the Minister wants to prevent disputes, that recommendations sincerely, the Opposition is is the place to start. prepared to support his efforts. However, I have grave doubts as to their effect in the Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) (11.3 p.m.): My workaday world of reality and shop-floor coming into this debate was brought about practice. by the Minister's attack on the Opposition in his opening remarks. Considering that Union politics are not always at the we are talking about a conciliation Bill, it extreme level, as some members of this was quite remarkable. Assembly would have the public believe. The extremes sometimes apparent are not reflected Mr. Katter: Go on; you were going to speak all the time. at the shop-floor level. If procedure for the conduct of secret ballots can be strengthened, Mr. HOUSTON: That's all right for the whether in a strike situation or not, it will be honourable member. He was listed to speak welcomed and applauded by the men on the next, but apparently he blew out of it. He job. Unfortunately, a ballot situation does is like quite a few others in the House. The not always arise when disputes occur. On only time he can make a speech is when he most occasions the dispute arises spon­ wants to criticise somebody else. He has taneously and is aggravated by many fac­ hardly an original thought in his head. tors. Misunderstanding probably has put men The point is that we are debating a Bill off the shop floor many more times than to amend the Industrial Conciliation and militancy or just plain perversity. As I said, Arbitration Act. The Minister commenced on most occasions stoppages are spontaneous, by throwing his arms around, yelling and without any opportunity for a ballot to be accusing Opposition members of not knowing 2200 Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) what they were talking about, and generally Mr. HOUSTON: I have forgotten more saying that we talked a lot of rubbish. At than the honourable member ever knew the introductory stage the Minister showed about them. quite clearly that he really did not under­ As I was saying, I would like to hear stand what the Bill was all about. He failed of one occasion when the workers got any­ to explain many things in the Bill. Many where at all without the trade union move­ facets of the Bill were not referred to in ment. his introductory speech. Instead of the Minister criticising the Opposition, the Opposi­ Mr. Porter: Why not try it for a change tion should be criticising him. and see what happens? I traced the history of the legislation since Mr. HOUSTON: It has been tried. 1957. Year after year we have heard this Government telling us that it was going to Mr. Porter: When? overcome industrial problems. It has gone to all sorts of lengths to amend the legisla­ Mr. HOUSTON: Over the years. For tion. Previous Ministers including the pres­ example, the fire fighters were not in a ent Minister in charge of this portfolio union and they tried to form themselves amended the legislation. Only one former into a union, but the Government would Minister did not do so. The other three not allow them to do so. came in year after year and amended the legislation, each time telling us that by Mr. Gunn: They were in the A.W.U. doing so the Government was going to overcome industrial problems. On every Mr. HOUSTON: They wanted to leave occasion the Government failed. In fact, that union and form their own union. it has aggravated the problems. If the problems had been solved, as the Govern­ Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. ment claimed they would be, why is it that Hewitt): Order! The honourable member is industrial trouble still arises? Why are there straying from the Bill. the same troubles today as there were 10 or 15 years ago? Mr. HOUSTON: I was asked to give an example of when the workers tried to get Mr. Katter: Because your A.L.P. leaders anywhere without being in a union and I and union leaders are involved in class war­ am saying that the fire fighters tried to fare. work outside a recognised union and the Government introduced a Bill condemning Mr. HOUSTON: Now the reluctant them and tried to prevent them from getting speaker is trying to make a speech by way before the Industrial Court. That is what of interjection. I think he should quietly the Government did. get on his camel and ride away. Mr. Lamont: Are they now represented? Mr. Porter: Why don't you answer him? Mr. HOUSTON: They are now in a registered union. They achieved this by Mr. HOUSTON: Because his comment financing their unregistered union and get­ was totally untrue, just as some of those ting before the Industrial Court. made by the honourable member are untrue. The Government believes that no-one who The honourable member for Toowong is prepared to accept the benefits obtained claimed that without unions the workers by the trade unions should be require_d . to would be as well off as they are now. contribute towards the cost of obtammg Let him name one employer who has gone those benefits. The Government stands con­ to union members saying, "Well, fellows, demned for that attitude. Every worker who you have done such a good job that I is prepared to accept benefits obtained will increase your wages by so much a through the efforts of others should be week." Even a Labor Government of this prepared to cover the cost involved. State fell because it would not give employees As I said before, we are getting sick and three weeks' annual leave. Every increase tired of the same old yap from the Minister in wages and every improvement in con­ and the supporters of the Government. Only ditions has been won as the result of recently the Government removed certain industrial action taken by the workers through penalty clauses. The Minister on that their trade unions. occasion said, "We are removing the penalty Mr. Jones: And Governments go into clauses because they do not work. They court and oppose wage increases. are useless things and they are only causing worry. They cannot be applied." This Bill, however, reintroduces them. Mr. HOUSTON: That is quite right. In fact, the Bill allows the Minister to go In 1974 the Government brought in an into court whenever he thinks it is in the amendment by way of section 72A, which public interest to do so. Fancy using that provided for the suspension by Order in phrase-"in the public interest". Council of sections 70., 71 and 72 for any period not exceeding three months. The Mr. Akers: I thought you were supposed present law allows sections 70, 71 and 72 to know something about industrial matters. to be suspended for a period of up to three Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2201

months. In his introduction and his second­ Tory Governments of the past, never before reading speech, the Minister did not on one have we had such a Right-wing, conservative occasion give an example of whether or not leadership as we have in the present Govern­ that section has been applied and, if it has ment. I am surprised that the Minister been, how long it was applied for. I ven­ allowed himself to be talked into this pro­ ture to say that, although section 72A was vision in the legislation. I am quite dis­ put in there with the idea of allowing the appointed that he saw fit to be the man suspensions of sections 70, 71 and 72, it has who will have his name permanently attached not been applied. to this legislation. He will be remembered as the man who removed what I believe are Mr. Porter: Why wasn't it? vital clauses in the legislation. Mr. HOUSTON: I don't know why it was Mr. Porter: He will go down in history not applied. That is up to the court. The as enlightened. Jaw allowed it. The Government's own amendment allowed the courts to do it. Mr. HOUSTON: He will go down in his­ tory, but I am afraid he will not be known Mr. Porter: The fear of union reprisal in history as "good" Fred Campbell. I am stops them. sure there will be a different adjective. Mr. HOUSTON: If they were fearful However, we will see how good the because of that, won't they be more fearful employers are. A very simple case is coming if they are removed completely? What the up. In fact, it is with us already. Over the Government has done in this legislation is next few months we will see how generous to remove the sections completely. The Gov­ employers are-that is, if the Federal Gov­ ernment is not only removing the prohibition ernment does not change its mind again over on action for tort; it is also removing other the next few days. Under the conditions as things. I hope that Government members late as an hour or so ago, the Federal Gov­ know what they are doing. They are also ernment now has a devaluation of about 15.2 removing section 71, the side heading of per cent, which according to all the experts which is "Trade union not criminal nor will mean a bonanza for our mineral unlawful." If we remove that, are we to exporters. take it that in the Government's view a trade Mr. Lamont: What the hell has this to union is criminal and unlawful? That is the do with the Bill? section the Government is removing. Mr. HOUSTON: It has a lot to do with Mr. Porter: It could be. it. If the honourable member waits for a moment, I will tell him publicly what it is Mr. HOUSTON: A union can be criminal all about. It means that without increased and unlawful? Is that what the honourable sales, without any extra work by the manage­ member is saying? He is the man who ment, and without any effort at all, coal framed the legislation, and that is what he suppliers, such as Utah, will increase their is telling us. He is going to remove that profits immensely because as a result of the protection not only from the union that he 15.2 per cent devaluation they will receive wants to get at, but also from every other more not just on their profit as is but over union. Because that section is being removed, the whole of their commodity sales. I won­ they can all be declared criminal and der how much of this will go to the share­ unlawful. holders and how much will go to the workers. It is a clause that has existed in this legis­ lation for many, many years. In fact, the Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. old Trade Union Act had it as section 31. Hewitt): Order! If the honourable member This is a provision that the Government is can relate those comments to the Bill, I wish removing for no other reason than that it had he would hurry up and so so. in its legislation the power to suspend and it was not put into effect. Mr. HOUSTON: I am relating them to The side heading of section 72 (1) is the Bili. We are taking away the right to "Restriction of civil remedies against indi­ strike. The Government is removing the tort viduals." The Government wants to get rid provisions and doing all of these things. of that one, too. The side heading for sec­ If the unions know that the employers (Utah tion 72 (2) is "Removal of liability for inter­ and the like), without doing anything, are fering with another person's business, etc." to get this money simply because of the These things sound pretty easy when they devaluation by the Federal Government, are just looked at on the surface. which will increase the prices of our local goods and increase inflation (and that has not Mr. Porter: They sound reasonable for been denied), the trade unionists in those human rights. fields (and I know the particular trade unions) will have the two things together­ Mr. HOUSTON: They sound reasonable on the one hand, increased profits for the to the honourable member, but they have companies and, on the other, increased costs stood the test of time. They have been for them, and they would be right in asking through the old Trade Union Act. They for or demanding an increased share of the existed through the years of various Govern­ profits that Utah and other companies are ments. The point is that, even with the old going to get. il 2202 Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I can world that the Deputy Leader of the Opposi­ see no relevance to the Bill in those com­ tion would like would be for us to have ments. I ask the honourable member to communication with the workers because come back to the principles of the Bill. that would annihilate the last vestige of sup­ port that exists for his party in this State. Mr. HOUSTON: The relevance is whether The right to strike has never at any stage the employers will give the money without been in question. On many occasions I have the unions having to ask for it or if the said that I would never agree with any move unions ask for it and do not get it, whether to water down the right to strike on a valid the unionists will be justified in going on issue. strike. That is the point. If you do not see any relevance in what I am saying, Mr. Mr. Houston: Do you know of any strike Deputy Speaker, I apologise for pursuing the in the last two years that you approved of? point when you have a lack of knowledge of the subject. Mr. KATTER: Yes, most certainly. Let me now have a look at another feature Mr. Houston: Which one? of the Bill. An industrial union will have to show cause why it should not be deregis­ Mr. KATTER: A dozen of them. tered. Questions have been asked in this Mr. Houston: Name them. Chamber from time to time about the deregistration of unions. This Minister has Mr. KATTER: I will name the three rail­ said, "That information is not readily avail­ way strikes in my area in the last three years. able." So much information concerning Not only did I approve of them; in one of industrial problems and disputes is not them I was public relations officer. Would available that I wonder at times how the the honourable member like me to give the Bill originated. As I said at the outset, we names of the people involved? believe that it originated from the attitudes of certain people on the Government benches. Mr. Houston: No. We know that the Government has decided Mr. KATTER: I was glad the honourable to give the Minister direct power to intervene. member made his interjection. Now he has The Act already provides the power to ask my answer. the commission to intervene if the Govern­ If we start talking about industrial argu­ ment believes there is industrial trouble. It ments and getting determinations in our does not have to wait until there is industrial favour we are talking about arbitration. trouble in fact; if industrial trouble is But those who want to play in that ball apparent the Minister may ask the commis­ game have to abide by its rules. It is no sion to intervene. In addition, the industrial use running on for a football match and commissioners can intervene in their own then throwing punches. Anyone who does right. There have been no examples of great that cannot complain if he is given an early problems in this field. There have been shower-as I thought would happen to an­ industrial disputes and the commission has other speaker in this debate tonight. come in. We find that we have these differ­ ences of opinion between the two. But at any In the first place, the Bill gives the Indus­ time the Minister could have intervened in trial Commission power to make an order that sense. in respect of a strike, on the one hand, and, on the other, in respect of a lock-out by Apparently that is not enough. He wants management. If the commission makes a to go further. He wants to go into the court, decision, the parties must abide by it. It as he says, in the public interest. I suggest is no use playing by a set of rules and not that those words are a camouflage to allow being prepared to take the consequences if the Minister of the day to go in at any time one loses. It is no use behaving like a he sees fit. I agree completely with my two naughty boy who, if he loses, takes his colleagues the honourable members for marbles and leaves. Those who play in the Cairns and Rockhampton North that this Industrial Commission game have to abide legislation will be no more successful than by its rules. previous legislation and that it will make it harder to reach industrial settlement. I do not think anyone could dispute that if a person is not prepared to abide by the The best thing that can happen in this rules, he does not deserve the protection of State is for Government members to get to Industrial Commission rulings on other mat­ know trade-unionists and trade union leaders, ters. In other words, that means deregistra­ and it would not do them any harm to have tion. That is all that we are talking about to work in industries where it is necessary to and it follows a very logical sequence. have strong unions, because there are strong I now move to the last part of the Bill. forces against the workers. I skip the stand-down clauses because we Mr. KATTER (Flinders) (11.19 p.m.): The could argue on them all night. concluding remarks of the previous speaker Many speakers seem to be worried about were to the effect that it would do Govern­ removal of protection against actions for ment members a great deal of good to speak tort. The honourable member for Rock­ to workers and to move around among trade­ hampton North seemed to be worried about unionists. I suspect that the last thing in the it and I must admit that when I first saw Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2203

the Bill I, too, was worried about it. How­ Mr. Houston interjected. ever, when one gives more consideration to the matter, one realises that in a court of law there is no way under the British system Mr. KATIER: It is reaching a stage where of justice that any man can be compelled something simply has to be done. A total to work. If he wants to sit down and not of 3,000 workers in North Queensland lost work, that is his privilege and there is their jobs because of one wild-cat strike nothing that anyone can do legally to punish which could not in any circumstances be him for it. justified, and that is the Collinsville dispute. Let me tell honourable members why it There are, however, cases in which some cannot be justified. Those involved in the unions resort to what are virtually blackmail dispute are asking for an isolation allowance tactics. There have been many such actions in a town that is only 60 miles from a by the Transport Workers' Union. A person relatively big northern town, Bowen. What who does not have a union ticket because about the people of Hughenden? Every he owns a farm or his own truck does not single employee in the town of Hughenden receive any benefits of union membership must surely attempt to get some sort of or Industrial Commission determinations, yet isolation allowance. What about the township he is compelled by the union to buy a ticket. of Greenvale, 120 miles from the nearest That is tantamount to blackmail. If he does town? What sort of isolation allowance can not buy a ticket, he is blackmailed and cer­ the workers there demand? Yet this ridiculous tain actions are taken against him. He is and unreasonable demand put 3,000 North blackballed. Queenslanders out of work. There simply It is only in such cases that I can see the must be some protection for these people provision removing protection from action who every single week have to make repay­ for tort being applicable. A case in point in ments on their refrigerators, washing my area is the dispute involving storemen machines, cars and houses. If they are off and packers. For those who are not familiar work for a week, they have no way of with what is going on, I may say that the meeting those payments. So we have to do wool bales that are the subject of the dispute something about the strike problem, and in are never lifted. It is not a matter of lifting a case like the Collinsville strike we must weight; it is a matter of rolling the bales be given some sort of legislative ability to and using trolley carts. Bales have been be able to do it. handled in this way ever since the last century. Suddenly they are supposed to be too On strike figures, we now rank, as the heavy, which, of course, they are not. Minister said, third in the world, and that is not a very healthy state of affairs. We The result of making the bales lighter is have one of the highest inflation rates in that the average grazier in Queensland has the world. I think at the end of last year to pay an extra $500 to $1,000 every year we were again third in the world. It must be to foreign-owned stock agency companies remembered that this was in spite of the and the Queensland Government Railways. fact that petrol prices, which caused inflation This is not a very happy solution to the throughout the world, were not al!owed to problem. Naturally enough, people who are rise in Australia because we have a fixed hard-pressed are not particularly happy about price at the well-head. This was also in having to pay an extra $500 to $1,000. What spite of the fact that probably the biggest can we do about this? As far as I can see, item in the Consumer Price Index is beef, there is no way we can utilise the tort and the price of beef to the Australian action. The Industrial Commission has made consumer actually dropped by half in the a ruling, but I very much doubt whether same period. So with two of the major what we are doing here is going to give it commodities in the Consumer Price Index the backbone to enable it to implement a -petrol and beef-one held steady and the deregistration order, and yet that is a clas­ other actually dropped by half, and in spite sic case where it should be implemented. of that we were able to achieve the third Mr. Miller: Are you aware that the Trans­ highest inflation rate of any country in the port Workers' Union is a Federal union and world. The problem is wage push, and will not come under this Act at all? there is no-one in Australia, including union­ ists themselves, who would deny it and Mr. KATIER: I have used that as an that some sort of damper has to be put on it. example. I am not discussing which unions operate under which awards or anything of Whilst we have with this legislation turned that nature; I am using that to illustrate entirely upon trying to restrain some of the effectiveness of this particular Bill. the excesses of union extremism in the State, I strongly recommend that the Minister Mr. Houston: What unions are affecting it? look at some form of worker involvement in the future. That gets down to the grass Mr. KATIER: That is a silly question and roots of the problem, giving the worker on I am not going to answer it. It either means the shop-floor level some sort of involvement the honourable member is silly or he has with the decisions that govern his life. I no idea what we are talking about. As far as commend the Bill to the House. The Minister strikes are concerned, we have been criticised and his Committee have done an excellent for acting-- job in drafting it. 2204 Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

Mr. LAMONT (South Brisbane) (11.29 Deputy Leader of the Opposition standing up p.m.): I intend to be brief, but I could not in this Chamber and trying to represent it as possibly let the remarks of the Deputy "taking a way the right to strike". Ye gods Leader of the Opposition pass without putting and little fishes! Could anyone possibly some sort of reply on the record. We saw a believe that this Parliament, this Minister or brief, vainglorious attempt once again to this Government would try to legislate to paint this legislation as something that is take away the right to strike? What a false­ going to cause a great rift in the com­ hood! And what frightens me most is that munity but it is, as we know, anything but that argument comes from the man who that. aspires to be Deputy Premier of this State. This legislation is not the result of some He represents this simple legislation to his committee that the Opposition seems to think supporters in that way in the hope that he wants to attack unions; it is legislation com­ can arouse them to the point of non-co-opera­ ing from a most responsible Minister who tion. That is his contribution to the com­ has a deep understanding of the union move­ munity. If that is the best contribution he ment, and it is something that was approved can make, I ask: would anyone want him and accepted by his Committee as well­ to be Deputy Premier? people who daily work and mix with The additional industrial unrest, the fan­ unionists. I remind the Deputy Leader of ning of the flames in the community, that the Opposition that I represent more trade­ the Deputy Leader of the Opposition is unionists than he does-and I would go so endeavouring to achieve is something which far as to say represent them better. ought to condemn him in the eyes of the electorate, and I predict that it will. He even Mr. Houston interjected. tried to suggest that, by some stretch of the imagination, the legislation would increase Mr. LAMONT: That is not just my inflation, when a Government of the same opinion; it is the opinion given to me by political colour as the Opposition in this trade-unionists in my electorate. Chamber contributed more to inflation than The Bill is a tidying-up exercise. It is a any Government that Australia has seen since Bill tailored to meet the changing needs of a the 1920s. changing society. For the honourable mem­ The two points relevant to the Bill that the ber for Bulimba to go back in history to honourable gentleman did make-and I stress Bills introduced by gentlemen such as Ken "relevant" because it was something that he Morris and to state that that is what hap­ was very loath to be-were a reference to pened then and that the Act should not have the removal of the protections of sections been amended and oppose any amendment of 71 and 72 and his attack on what he called industrial legislation suggests to me that he the Government's rejection of the amendment believes that legislation which was suitable made last year in section 72A and his ref­ for a community in 1960 is suitable for a erence to deregistration. community in 1976. That, of course, is the type of sheer nonsense that one expects from As I said at the introductory stage, I wish a party that lives in the past and is led by to make my attitude quite clear. I intend to men of the past. That is a simple fact of support the Minister's recommendation on life. the removal of that protection not because I believe it is a progressive step but because Mr. Houston interjected. I do not believe that it will m~l;:e much difference. On the question of tort-we are Mr. LAMONT: The honourable gentle­ removing the protection that unions have had men who interjects was rejected by a greater in this State from court actions through torts. number of Opposition members than recently I am sure you are aware, Mr. Deputy put him back into the deputy leadership. Speaker, that the fact that individuals can When he was leader, he was controlled by now sue a union in civil courts will really the puppet strings of the president of the mean very little. That situation already Labor Party, who now sits in the House and obtains in other States, and we have seen is controlled by other presidents outside instances in which people have taken unions Parliament. to court. In one State a Premier had to pay a due as a result of such a court action. In As I said, the legislation is a simple tidy­ another State a judgment was found, but ing-up exercise. It makes a few changes to nothing happened from it. I v.ould predict the legislation that was introduced 12 months that if anyone takes advantage of the removal ago, which in fact I supported entirely and of this section from the Act in this State he which I believe has been proven to be effec­ may well get a judgment, but no-one is tive. That is shown by statistics, which going to collect against a union. The Deputy indicate that only one-third of the number Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues of work days lost in this State last year have know this well. They know it is not going been lost this year. That is the result of the to happen. Because I know it is not going Minister's action in introducing the earlier legislation. to happen and they know it is not going to happen I will support the amendment the As opposed to the simple fact that the Minister puts forward, not because I think Bill has been introduced to make the Act it is a brilliant step forward but because I more relevant to today's needs, we have the reluctantly believe that some extreme Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2205

unionists have forced us to the stage where do have that wider responsibility. It creates we just are not in the position where we the atmosphere for individual union members ought to bother to give the protection. I to take the ball in their own hands and know also that it is quite ineffectual, and ensure that they have the sort of union they nobody is going to cash in on it anyway. In want. the long run good industrial relations will rely on good human relations, and that is I do honestly not believe that members what in fact it all amounts to. of the Opposition are opposed to that prin­ ciple. I think that deep down they are On the question of deregistration, which basically responsible people who would like is the only other point that the Deputy to see the community working well, but Leader of the Opposition came anywhere perhaps under a different social philosophy near to being relevant about, we have had from that which we hold. Nevertheless I a situation under the legislation where the believe that they probably consider that employer had to bring certain facts to the unions should be responsib1e. It is pathetic notice of the commission before a commis­ to watch men like the former Leader of sioner could in fact take cognisance of the the Opposition and new Deputy Leader of position and then look at the possibility of the Opposition trying to wear two caps, and deregistration. In a passive sense that was endeavouring to paint this legislation as some­ discriminatory. Any employer who did take thing that honourable members opposite can that step would no doubt find himself dis­ go to the Trades Hall about and say, 'There criminated against by unions. So all we are is the Minister, a man you once trusted. saying is that under the amendment proposed He can't be trusted any more." What a by the Minister a commissioner, without lot of hog-wash! having to wait for an outsider to single him­ self out and bear the onus, can say, "I am I am taking up these five or six minutes going to take cognisance of the situation and to point out that Opposition members have look at deregistration as a possibility without done nothing to prove the extreme charges having to wait for somebody else to come they have laid against this legislation. Deep to me and single himself out for possible down they know that not one clause in union discrimination." I think that is a the Bill will harm the trade union move­ very sensible sort of amendment. ment or the individual unionists. Rather will the Bill strengthen the ability of the indivi­ We have heard a little bit from other dual unionists to set their own house in order Opposition speakers about the stand-down at their will when they want to. That clause. Quite obviously that amendment is what Opposition members do not like. means that one group of unionists who want to go on strike have to start to have some This is responsible legislation, but Opposi­ regard for the welfare, fortunes and future tion members are loath to admit that this of other unionists in other unions employed Government and this Minister can introduce in the came business. That is very good, responsible legislation dealing with industrial too. Why shouldn't unionists have some relations. They like to think that theirs regard for their fellow workers in other is the only party that has any standing with situations, and have that kind of respons­ the trade union movement. The results ibility not just to the community but to their at the last election, however, proved them fellow workers? I should imagine that to be wrong. There are more members on responsible unionists, being reminded of that this side of the House representing trade­ responsibility, and the fact that their friends unionists than there are on their side of can be stood down as the result of their the House. And it will be so after the action, will indeed think twice before they next election, because the trade-unionists resort to extremist action. It is quite obvious knovv that this Government, this Minister that we cannot ask employers to keep people and those members on this side of the employed when there is no profit in so House do have an understanding of the doing. We are bringing home to the unionists, need for the individual unionist to have the as most unionists a1ready realise, that profit­ ability to look after his own union.. That ability equals employability, and their actions is all this legislation does, and that 1s what as employees reflect very much on the has members of the Opposition screaming ability of the employer to offer employment. tonight. There is nothing wrong with that, either. I commend the Minister for his continued As I said at the introductory stage, I efforts-successful efforts, I would add-to believe that membership of a trade union is ensure that trade-unionism stays in the right a social obligation. I believe that workers hands, in the hands of the individual should belong to a union because it is a unionists. way of contributing significantly to their community. I believe that they should have that responsible attitude. They must have Mr. ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (11.42 p.m.): a responsibility not just to their union, not As a member of the Minister's committee, just to their union leadership and not just I have a great deal of pleasure in rising to those particular causes that identify with to support the Bill. The present industrial unionism but a wider responsibility to the climate has more or less forced the Gov­ general community. That is all this Bill ernment to bring in this legislation. An does. It simply reminds unionists that they opinion poll conducted recently by the 2206 Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

Australian National University revealed that Federal colleague, Mr. Street, as much as 60 per cent of trade union members thought to say that Mr. Street does not want con­ that unions had too much power. In the frontation but the Queensland Minister does. light of findings such as that, the Govern­ I simply say this to the honourable member ment has a responsibility to ensure that the for Rockhampton North: if Mr. Street does Left-wing-dominated union leaders-not the not want confrontation, why is the Federal rank and file, who are, in the main, respon­ Government amending the Trade Practices sible people-are not able to use industrial Act to make it applicable to trade unions? situations for political gain. We certainly do our utmost, through my Mr. Houston interjected. department and our industrial advisory com­ mittee, to achieve a reduction in disputation. Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. I presume that honourable members opposite Hewitt): Order! The Deputy Leader of the acknowledge that over 90 per cent of indus­ Opposition will contain himself. trial disputes never see the light of day. As the honourable member for Cairns said, they Mr. ELLIOIT: Union leaders use such should be settled on the shop floor. That situations only for their own political gain. is where they are settled. Only a relatively However, this legislation should not be used few surface, with rather grievous results. as a big stick with which to belt people The honourable member referred to the state­ over the head, unless the Government is ment about stand-downs I made at the intro­ pushed right into a corner. I go on record duction of this Bill. What I said was by as saying that I believe conciliation and way of analogy. The onus is on the employer sensible discussion between employer and to show that his stand-down is justified, employee to be the best means of providing because the employee stood down has the a solution to industrial problems. right of appeal. Last year an amendment was introduced I repeat that the Opposition has been inserting a new section 98, which provided putting up dolls to be knocked down. Refer­ for legal strikes. Previously, while an illegal ence was made to orders for stand-downs strike was in progress it was impossible for by the Industrial Commission. A stand-down employers to negotiate before the court with of less than three months would not affect employees or to have the court arbitrate an employee's right of accrual of annual on it. That was a farcical situation. I leave. If an industrial magistrate ordered believe that this legislation, following the the employee to be re-engaged and awarded previous amendment, will give us far more payment for the period stood down, the flexibility. If it comes to a point and we employee's total entitlement would not be have seen that unfortunately the employers affected. have not been game to take action-- The honourable member for Rockhampton Mr. Houston: Do you think they will North referred to employers taking advantage now? of stand-downs. He quoted Mr. Street. I am going to quote the president of the Con­ Mr. ELUOTT: If they are not game and federation of Industry (Mr. Arthur Willis), if it is in the public interest, the Minister who was reported a couple of days ago as will now be able to take the part of what saying that the employers will only use is termed the public interest. I believe that their power to stand down with discretion that is necessary. Unfortunately, it is due and will not attempt to use it unjustifiably. to the Left•wing influence of such people I am at a loss to understand why the as the Carmichaels and the Halfpennys, who Opposition believes that employers will have pushed the mainstream of Australian suddenly take unfair advantage of their society to the point where they believe that employees. we as a Government should be acting in this way. As I said before, I do not go Mr. Yewdale: They are all lily-whites. along with belting people over the heads with big sticks; I do not believe that that is the best course of action. However, if we Mr. CAMPBELL: I am not saying that are pushed right into a corner, obviously we they are all lily-whites; I am saying that the will have to use it. great majority of employers in this State want industrial harmony. The honourable It gives me a great deal of pleasure with member would know that many awards con­ those few words to support the Bill. tain stand-down provisions of which employ­ ers do not take advantage. I will not deal Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister with the many other matters to which the for Industrial Development, Labour Relations honourable member referred. and Consumer Affairs) (11.47), in reply: Members of the Opposition certainly put I appreciate the comments of the honour­ up a lot of dolls tonight to be knocked down. able member for Toowong. He gave general The first one was that the Government does approval to the legislation. He said it would not want to reduce disputation. What a lot give the rank-and-file unionists greater con­ of rot! The honourable mem'ber for Rock­ trol and is good for unions, for people and hampton North drew upon a comment by my for productivity. Industrial Conciliation, &c., [7 DECEMBER 1976] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2207

Again, the honourable member for Cairns dispute, to notify the commissioner or the approached this legislation with responsibility. registrar in this connection. The honourable He stressed the point that most of the member for South Brisbane dealt with this problems, as we know, occur in the post­ matter after the honourable member for strike situation. He stressed the need, also, Bulimba made the positive statement that the to get in early with conciliation-before the legislation is taking away the right to strike. strike occurs. It is the policy of this Govern­ We are not taking away the right to strike. ment to encourage conciliation by both em­ All that the legislation requires is that, in ployers and unionists right up till the time of the public interest, unions obey orders of deadlock. the Industrial Commission. I appreciate the comment of the honour­ The Deputy Leader of the Opposition able member for Cairns that he trusted that gave a little homely advice to members of the measure will help. Then of course he the Government when he said, "Get to know spoilt it by expressing grave doubts. I do trade union leaders." It might interest him not think he really has grave doubts. If he to know that in the last couple of months I and other Opposition members are express­ have obtained the names of 200 to 300 union ing grave doubts I venture to suggest that officials, ascertained the electorates in which they are not in touch with the ordinary they reside and supplied Government mem­ rank-and-file trade-unionists, who have indi­ bers with those lists in the hope that they cated to me the many ways in which they will get in touch with them. I know that are quite happy with the legislation. quite a number have already taken steps to become acquainted with trade union leaders. The most amazing comment I have heard I think a matter of concern to Opposition in this Chamber in recent times was uttered members is the very close relationship by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition between so many Government members and when he said-and I think I heard him trade union leaders and rank-and-file mem­ right-that a former Labor Government bers. fell because it did not introduce three weeks' leave. I think it was the honourable member for South Brisbane who referred to the fact that Mr. Houston: That is right. in the last two elections, Federal and State, a great body of trade-unionists and their wives voted, for the first time in their lives, Mr. CAMPBELL: The honourable mem­ away from their traditional political per­ ber acknowledges it. His recollection must suasion. be a bit astray; mine is very clear. It was not the Gair Government's refusal to Mr. Houston: You misled them. award three weeks' leave but simply the timing of it. Mr. CAMPBELL: I do not think we did. Mr. Houston: Ha, ha! Mr. Houston: Of course you did. Mr. CAMPBELL: The honourable mem­ ber can laugh. It was the standover tactics Mr. CAMPBELL: They were so fed up of the then president of the A.L.P. (Mr. with the machinations of the Whitlam Gov­ Bukowski) that gave rise to that incident. ernment. Because of that I could almost dismiss what the honourable member for Bulimba said. Mr. Houston: You wait and see. He spent a lot of time on section 72A. He said it had not been used. Again his Mr. CAMPBELL: We will; we look for­ recollection is a bit vague. It was imple­ ward with great interest to the next election. mented and the fact the organisation did not The honourable member is in for a great take advantage of it was not the problem of disappointment if he thinks that they will the Government. flock back to the A.L.P. The honourable member for Bulimba tried to gain a lot of mileage out of the words I thank other members for their contribu­ "in the public interest." If he is ever in tions. Government and his Government neglects Motion (Mr. Campbell) agreed to. to be concerned for the public interest, the people will be quick to react. COMMITIEE There is nothing sinister in this legislation. It makes provision for the Minister to inter­ (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the chair) vene on behalf of the Government. The inter­ Clauses 1 to 8, both inclusive, as read, vention to which the Deputy Leader of the Opposition refers is in fact not intervention agreed to. but rather the power of the Minister, if he Bill reported, without amendment. is aware of an industrial dispute or a situa­ tion that is likely to give rise to an industrial The House adjourned at 12 midnight.