504 Death of Sir Leslie Herron [COUNCIL] Questions without Notice

1fi.egisbdil.t.e illnumil centre areas and in that regard we have had discussions with the Commonwealth. We Tuesday, 28 August, 1973 expect that ultimately legislation will be in­ troduced in this State along the lines of a statement made in October last year with Death of Sir Leslie Herron, Lieutenant-Governor­ Questions without Notice-Governor's Speech: regard to values of land that we feel is Address in Reply (Ninth Day's Debate). needed for public purposes within growth centre areas. I view with considerable doubt the wisdom of endeavouring to freeze The PRESIDENT took the chair at 4.28 p.m. land prices generally in this State for ten The PRAYER was read. years. I am sure the Government would not regard that as a practical approach to the DEATH OF THE HONOURABLE SIR problem. However, we are willing to look LESLIE JAMES HERRON, K.B.E., C.M.G., at an attempt to steady up land prices within K.ST.J., LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR OF the growth centres to try to encourage NEW SOUTH WALES development in those places. The PRESIDENT informed the House of the receipt of a communication from Lady DARTMOUTH AND PIKE CREEK DAMS Herron thanking the House for the resolu­ The Ron. L. P. CONNELLAN: I ask tion of sympathy on the death of the the Minister for Decentralisation and Honourable Sir Leslie James Herron, Development whether in the past few days K.B.E., C.M.G., K.St.J., Lieutenant-Gover­ the continuation of construction of Dart­ nor of the State of New South Wales. mouth Dam has been thrown into doubt by the federal Government as a result of the Coombs committee recommendation that QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE work on the dam be either discontinued or HOUSING LAND PRICES delayed. Is it a fact that the construction of Dartmouth Dam is of vital importance to The Ron. H. J. McPHERSON: My ques­ New South Wales, Victoria and South Aus­ tion is addressed to the Minister for Decen­ tralia and especially the city of Adelaide? tralisation and Development. Is it a fact Is it also a fact that the Pike Creek Dam, of that the federal Minister for Urban and great importance to the people in the north­ Regional Development has asked State gov­ ern part of this State, is likely to be simi­ ernments to freeze prices of building land larly jeopardized? for up to ten years? Does the Minister see this as a fair move to keep to a minimum The Ron. J. B. M. FULLER: I was the price of building lots for homeseekers? astonished when I heard the news on the Will the New South Wales Government radio on Friday night that the Common­ bring down legislation along these lines and wealth was considering delaying the con­ so complement the efforts of the Australian struction of Dartmouth Dam. I was relieved Government to make land available to home­ to see a statement from my colleague the seekers at reasonable prices? Minister for Conservation and Minister for Cultural Activities who came out strongly, The Ron. J. B. M. FULLER: I have seen a report that the federal Minister for Urban in the shortest possible time, saying that it and Regional Development has suggested to appeared to him that the Commonwealth State governments that they should freeze was trying to welsh on its commitment to land prices for ten years. I have not had assist in the huge Dartmouth Dam oper­ any communication-and, I understand, ation, which was a co-operative effort of the neither has the Premier-from the Common­ Commonwealth, Victorian, New South wealth in this regard. All I know is what I Wales and South Australian governments. read in the press. For some time now we He went on to say that every political force have been discussing the possibility of would be used in New South Wales to ensure steadying up spiralling land prices in growth that Dartmouth Dam proceeds under the Questions without Notice [28 AUG., 1973] Questions without Notice 505 terms of the original agreement reached by Government will not permit people's liveli­ the federal, South Australian, Victorian and hoods to be put in jeopardy by this irrespon­ New South Wales governments. The Minis­ sible approach-after everyone had under­ ter stated last Friday that he understood that stood that this dam was to be proceeded the Acting Premier of South Australia, the with. The decision reached in New South Hon. J. D. Corcoran, was reported to have Wales, and I expect in Queensland also, is said that he· received a similar letter from that Pike Creek Dam will proceed, but with­ the Prime Minister but that the South Aus­ out federal financial assistance it may take tralian Government would strongly oppose a little longer to construct-possibly a year any delay in construction of the dam. I was or so. I assure the honourable member that glad also that the Premier of South Aus­ Pike Creek Dam will be built by the Queens­ tralia came in quickly, again in a television land and New South Wales governments interview, and said that his Government although the federal Government will not would make certain that the federal Govern­ face up to its acknowledged commitment in ment was compelled to face up to its com­ this regard. mitments in this regard. Since then, all three State governments have indicated their un­ BLUE MOUNTAINS TOURIST willingness to slow down the construction DEVELOPMENT AREA of Dartmouth Dam. The Premier of South Australia has stated that the water is The Ron. L. D. SERISIER: I address my urgently required for both domestic and question to the Vice-President of the Execu­ irrigation purposes in South Australia and tive Council. Will the New South Wales that the Commonwealth's contribution is a Government constitute the Blue Mountains long-standing commitment. From the New area as a separate tourist development area? South Wales point of view, the dam is essen­ The Ron. J. B. M. FULLER: The Gov­ tial for the development of the growth ernment is always concerned with the exten­ centre of Albury-Wodonga. If the construc­ sion of assistance to the tourist industry. tion of the dam is not proceeded with, the The decision that was made, I think early in whole future planning and development of June of this year, to set up four specific that growth centre will be put in jeopardy. centres was made on the advice of a com­ Assured water supplies to users along the mittee largely representative of members of Murray River are of critical concern to the the Australian National Travel Association, State Government, but apparently not to the the Department of Tourism and the Depart­ federal Government. ment of Decentralisation and Development. I am informed that the Premier of Those were the prime recommendations at Queensland has received official notice from the time. I know that the committee gave the Prime Minister that the Commonwealth much consideration to the Blue Mountains will not contribute to the building of Pike area because of its natural attractiveness and Creek Dam. This is a direct repudiation of I am quite willing to suggest to the com­ the agreement reached by the previous mittee that it might have another look at federal Government with the State govern­ the possibility of making the Blue Moun­ ments of Queensland and New South Wales. It is typical of the new federal Government's tains a separate tourist development area. I policy that wherever possible it knocks and assure the honourable member that the bashes the people in the country. The atti­ Government will give the same sympathetic tude of the Commonwealth is that, though consideration to tourist development projects it has a basic commitment and a promise in the Blue Mountains as is given to similar to build the dam, now is the chance to get developments in other parts of the State. out of it. Feasibility studies of the three governments concerned-the Queensland, PRIORITY ROADS New South Wales and federal governments The Ron. T. S. McKAY: I ask the Min­ -were completed and all proved the need ister for Labour and Industry whether the for Pike Creek Dam. The New South Wales classification of Victoria Road as a priorit~ 506 Questions without Notice [COUNCIL] Questions without Notice road has proved to be successful? Has traf­ bodies that they should approach the Com­ fic flow improved and have intersection col­ monwealth Government direct for financial lisions been reduced? If so, will the Minis­ assistance. It is regrettable that this type of ter advise the House when other roads are approach should be made. I have said for a likely to be so classified, as a means of long time that we would appreciate financial phasing out the give-way-to-the-right rule, assistance to local government in New South except as a rule of last resort where no Wales, but the Government feels that this priority applies? should be assistance to the State Govern­ ment to maintain the priorities we have in The Hon. F. M. HEWITT: I know the New South Wales for local-government Minister and the Department of Motor work. Transport have been pleased with the results of declaring Victoria Road in this manner. If a group of councils band together, Accidents have been greatly reduced and thinking that they will have some preference the traffic flow has improved, though I had in this regard, that is regrettable because a slow trip on that road only two days ago. it will break down the priority system I have I was proceeding against the main flow of mentioned. Once it is broken down, I do traffic, which no doubt accounted for that. I not know what the position will be with shall certainly convey the honourable mem­ regard to assistance to councils in New ber's question to my colleague the Minister South Wales. I personally believe that the for Transport, and I hope to get a favour­ finance could better be made available to able reply for him. the Local Government Grants Commission, which has a great knowledge of the needs of local government in New South Wales, LOCAL-GOVERNMENT FINANCE and can distribute the finance in accordance The Hon. J. R. HALLAM: I ask the with a formula, possibly agreed upon by Minister for Decentralisation and Develop­ the Commonwealth Government and the ment a question without notice. Is the Minis­ State Government. I hope that this move ter aware that the shires of Coolamon, Illa­ by councils in the southwestern part of the bo, Mitchell, Kyeamba and Lockhart and State will not react against the efficiency of the municipalities of Junee and Wagga the regional advisory councils that have Wagga have banded together to form the recently been established. They have a job Central Riverina Development Corporation, to do, and I should like to see full co­ which aims to plan a sub-growth region operation of local government with the around Wagga Wagga, for a future popula­ regional advisory councils. tion of 350,000 people? As the headquarters of the Murrumbidgee Regional Advisory SECOND INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT Council is at Wagga Wagga, does the Minis­ FOR NEW SOUTH WALES ter approve this new inner group of coun­ The Hon. R. C. PACKER: I ask the cils? If the Minister does approve, will he Leader of the Government in this House intimate how the new group's activities whether the New South Wales Government might affect the recommendations of the has yet been informed by the federal Gov­ Murrumbidgee Regional Advisory Council, ernment of its decision, reported in the bearing in mind the new group's representa­ newspapers today, to build a second airport tion on the advisory council and the much near Hornsby. If the Government has not been informed, does the Government of larger geographical area covered by the New South Wales have any views regard­ Murrumbidgee Regional Advisory Council? ing this siting of a second airport? Further, The Hon. J. B. M. FULLER: I know that if the federal Department of Civil Aviation in one or two parts of the State a number decides to proceed with this second airport, of local-government bodies have banded against the wishes of the New South Wales together to form a group. I believe this has Government, what can the New South been done because the Commonwealth Gov­ Wales Government do to prevent this sort ernment suggested to local-government of thing from happening? Questions without Notice [28 AuG., 1973] Address in Reply 507 The Hon. J. B. M. FULLER: As often report for examination? Has this caused her happens lately, we are being assured that great inconvenience? Will the Minister have there is great co-operation between the Com­ this matter checked, with a view to having monwealth Government and ourselves. these things rectified, thus saving people However, I read in this afternoon's news­ great inconvenience? papers of a likelihood of a new airport being established at Galston, on the outskirts The Ron. F. M. HEWITT: I shall cer­ of Hornsby. That is all I know, and the tainly take up that matter with the company Government of New South Wales has re­ concerned, and advise the honourable ceived no official communication in this member. regard. A joint committee of State and Commonwealth officials has been working on this matter for a considerable time, and I understand that the Commonwealth's deci­ GOVERNOR'S SPEECH: ADDRESS IN sion is not in accordance with the report REPLY of that committee. That may be because NINTII DAY's DEBATE the Commonwealth Cabinet has particular problems in regard to the siting of airports. Debate resumed (from 23rd August, vide page 461) on motion by the Ron. W. J. Dealing now with the portion of the ques­ Holt: tion that asks how the State can prevent That the following Address be adopted and this, I assure the honourable member that presented by the Whole House to the Governor, these problems are of some concern to us, in reply to the Speech which His Excellency because the Commonwealth has rights with had been pleased to make to both Houses of regard to civil aviation and the location of Parliament, viz.: airports. It would be a slightly different To His Excellency Sir ARTIIUR RODEN CUTLER, upon whom has been conferred the decora­ story if the proposal were to build the air­ tion of the Victoria Cross, Knight Com­ port on New South Wales Crown land. That mander of the Most Distinguished Order is the only information I have at present. of Saint Michael and Saint George, Knight Possibly the Commonwealth Government Commander of the Royal Victorian Order, Commander of the Most Excellent Order will be communicating with the State before of the British Empire, Knight of the Most long on this subject. Venerable Order of St John of Jerusalem, Governor of the State of New South Wales and its Dependencies, in the Common­ WORKERS' COMPENSATION wealth of Australia. INSURANCE MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY- The Hon. L. A. NORTH: I ask the We, Her Majesty's loyal and dutiful subjects, Minister for Labour and Industry a ques­ the Members of the Legislative Council of tion that relates to complaints about New South Wales, in Parliament assembled, workers' compensation that I raised recently desire to express our thanks for Your Excel­ lency's Speech, and to assure you of our in this Chamber. Since I made the com­ unfeigned attachment to Her Most Gracious plaints the position improved, but it seems Majesty's Throne and Person. that a certain laxity is again creeping in. 2. We beg to assure Your Excellency that our earnest consideration will be given to the Is the Minister aware that today a member measures to be submitted to us. of my union from Albury had an appoint­ 3. We join Your Excellency in the hope ment with Manufacturers Mutual Insurance that under the guidance of Divine Providence, our 'labours may be so directed as to advance Limited, but when the aircraft conveying the best interests of all sections of the her to Sydney-on a flight that was booked community. by the insurance company-was twenty The Hon. F. W. BOWEN [4.48]: I also minutes late, she was twenty minutes late take this opportunity of congratulating the for the appointment? As a result, was she new members who have made their maiden informed that her appointment was cancell­ speeches during this debate. I look for­ ed and she would be notified in two or ward to their further contributions to the three weeks' time when she would have to business of this House. It appears that their 508 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL] Address in Reply prosperity is guaranteed; therefore, I wish and shall continue to say it. I do not believe them all good health during their stay in parties legislating themselves into office. here. I have changed, to some extent, what There was no complaint by members on the I proposed to say. The Governor's Speech Government side when that was happening. is, of course, prepared for him by the Gov­ Last December the majority of the people ernment. I have admired Sir Roden Cutler elected an Australian Labor Government. for many years, for he has done many That Government is trying to rectify all the great things for Australia. However, with issues on which justice was failed to be done great respect to His Excellency, having to the Australian people and it will con­ heard the Speech and listened to govern­ tinue to do that. There is no secret about ment supporters who have contributed to what the Government stands for. There this debate, I simply cannot understand has been no attempt by the Australian Gov­ their enthusiasm. ernment to mislead, in spite of all the mis­ Though the Speech was made on behalf givings that were mentioned. Shortly a con­ of the Government, if that type of speech stitutional convention is to be held. I have were presented by a trade-union official to a some doubts about whether a referendum trade-union conference or were made to a will take place during my lifetime, but irre­ conference of the Australian Labor Party, spective of that, if the people of the nation it would be sent back. I mean no disrespect resolve that more centralist powers should to His Excellency by what I have said about go to the Australian Government or to the the Speech. I cannot understand the en­ Commonwealth Government, whichever thusiasm of Government supporters for term one uses, there is a simple answer to parts of the Speech, particularly the twenty­ that-so what? The people have decided five words or thereabouts that refer to cen­ and that should be the end of the issue. tralist policies of the new Commonwealth Questions have been raised related to edu­ Government. Honourable members oppo­ cation. I shall not delve too deeply into this site need to wake up to themselves in their aspect but it was an area in which Govern­ general approach to the whole problem. ment members failed to criticize the New They made their bed for twenty-four years, South Wales Government. The Hon. Anne and they lay in it, and in that time the Press dwelt at some length on the Karmel country was handed over to the ravages of report, as did other honourable members. I private enterprise and oversea monopolies. remember her talking about the problems A new federal Government has been elected, of isolated schoolchildren, of whom I under­ one that made no secret about what it stood stand there are about 1 ,000. When the Aus­ for. The Labor Party made no secret of tralian Government announced the granting what it stood for; its policies were well and of living-away-from-home allowances rang­ truly advertised. That government is doing ing from $350 to $1,000 to assist these what it can for the Australian people who isolated children, the New South Wales elected it and what it promised to do. It is Government withdrew all the allowances it trying to rectify the situation that has oc­ had paid to assist in their education. I curred since 1948 when Mr Robert have heard no criticism .of that action. Menzies, now Sir Robert Menzies, in broad Surely if one is sufficiently concerned about terms promised to put value back into the the education system to promote the needs pound and to improve the situation with re­ of a section of the school community and gard to prices. Now we hear only moans and the parents of those children, it is fair groans, but we did not hear any moans or enough to make reference to the failure of groans from members of the Government the New South Wales Government to con­ parties related to the New South Wales tinue that subsidy. Government legislating itself into office. I propose to make a number of refer­ That is precisely what it has done with the ences to housing. Other honourable mem­ Parliamentary Electorates and Elections bers have spoken about the price of land (Amendment) Bill, which is the very anti­ and the inflated prices of houses. A question thesis of democracy. I have said that before related to this was asked today. I look The Hon. F. W. Bowen] Governor's Speech: [28 AuG., 1973] Address in Reply 509

forward to the introduction of the new hous­ continue to offer these services free; it may ing agreement between the federal Govern­ have to ask complainants for some contri­ ment and the State which, as I read the bution towards costs, which are becoming Speech presented to the House by His quite heavy. I should like to refer to three Excellency, is due to come before this cases in which my union was involved. The Chamber. The bill passed both Houses in matters were investigated by the union's the federal Parliament in June this year. By assistant secretary, Mr Lloyd Goodwin, on it the State of New South Wales received behalf of the solicitors acting for the con­ $86 million for housing compared with sumers. Each complaint related to the pur­ $67.5 million received when the Liberal­ chase of a lounge suite. The first case was Country party federal Government made first investigated in November, 1971, and grants to the Housing Commission of New was settled at Ryde court of petty sessions South Wales last year. Though that must in July, 1972. The consumer was awarded make an impact on housing problems, I $198. Had the claim been for more than have heard no praise of it. I have heard $200 the matter would have been taken to some cries of anguish. In addition, as soon the District Court. In this case three inspec­ as all States agree to co-operate-and that tions were made of the lounge suite. Addi­ is an important factor-a technical unit will tionally, union officials made two court ap­ be set up within the Australian Department pearances at Ryde. From instigation to of Housing to attempt to prepare a building settlement the case took close on twelve code for adoption by all public authorities months. throughout Australia. If such a national Another case was settled at Glebe court code can be introduced it is expected that of petty sessions last Thursday. The first housing costs will be reduced by about 6 investigation was made in November, 1972, per cent. Last year $1,750 million was spent making the period between instigation and on housing throughout Australia and the settlement nine months. This case involved introduction of the code would mean a the sum of $650 which to me and no doubt saving of about $105 million. A 6 per cent to most people is not peanuts. Fortunately, reduction in housing costs in this State this the consumer was shrewd enough to pay year would compensate for the inflationary only a deposit of $250, still a considerable trend in the cost of housing that housing sum. The settlement agreed between the authorities have predicted. That is the type parties was that the consumer paid $100 of centralist policy that most Australians for the hire of the suite and the manufac­ would support. I could say much more turer took the suite back. It is possible that about housing but I shall reserve further someone else might be landed with that comment until the new housing agreement suite. The third case is still pending and comes before the House for ratification. will come before the District Court. The first investigation was made on 13th July, In the Speech presented by His Excellency 1972, and another inspection was made on there is a proposition to put teeth into the 14th August, 1973. There is to be yet an­ Consumer Protection Act. I look forward other inspection. to that legislation. I do not propose to canvass the need for consumer protection When considering consumer protection in this State or in Australia generally other one must look deeply at the problem of in­ than to bring to the notice of the Minister vestigation and the adoption of a proper for Labour and Industry certain matters that approach. In each of the cases I have refer­ I believe should be considered by the Gov­ red to in the court of petty sessions there ernment before the introduction of a mea­ were two inspections and two appearances sure that would protect the consumer against at court. The delay between the instigation exploitation by certain forces in the com­ of the action and its finalization must in­ munity. evitably create in the mind of the magis­ My own union has been active in con­ trate, judge or jury some doubt whether the sumer affairs and offers a free service to article has been subject to abuse by the per­ consumers. I do not know whether it will son who has held it during the intervening 510 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL] Address in Reply time. This delay must create a doubt in to that discussion. The Australian Govern­ everyone's mind; it certainly creates a doubt ment has set up a committee on technical in union officials' minds and that is why and further education and Mr Myer Kan­ each matter is investigated on perhaps two gan, former secretary to the Department of or three occasions. That is something for Labour, has been appointed chairman. A consideration by the Government when in­ number of persons have been appointed to troducing legislation relating to consumer the committee, which will ultimately become affairs. Provision should be made in the con­ a commission. sumer protection legislation for complaints Honourable members interested in the of this nature to go before a special court subject of technical education should, I and be handled expeditiously. In this way suggest, make submissions to this com­ proper inspections by reliable authorities mittee. Submissions may be made to the could be conducted. committee up to 3rd September. I should I do not know how the Consumer Affairs like to see honourable members make sub­ Bureau will carry on unless its enabling missions or at least improve their knowledge legislation is given teeth. It is costly to ob­ of this subject before the amending legisla­ tain expert evidence. People purchase lounge tion is introduced. I am attempting to do suites, carpets, curtains, blinds, bedroom that myself. Honourable members should be suites, mattresses, dining room suites and so prepared to put their shoulder to the wheel on, but sometimes because the lady of the and do something for technical education house exercises her prerogative and perhaps in this State. The committee can be con­ objects to the colour a complaint may be tacted by writing to post office box 826, lodged. The article is purchased in a store Woden, Australian Capital Territory. I am but when it arrives home its colour does not sure that submissions of a substantive match the decor of the rest of the furnish­ nature will be received by the committee ings and so a complaint is registered. When even after the closing date of 3rd Septem­ the investigator arrives to look at the article ber, 1973. he learns that the family's aunties and uncles The Minister for Labour and Industry are all experts in the field and have given has a great interest in technical and further advice. I suggest that the Government con­ education, particularly the latter. It is un­ sider establishing a special court, presided fortunate that the Minister for Education over by an industrial magistrate, to hear is responsible for technical education, be­ these matters. These courts could sit at cause it is more within the purview of the centres throughout the State. Country people Minister for Labour and Industry. On are not immune to consumer problems. Al­ ternatively, these matters could be heard in Wednesday, 5th September next, during the District Court. They are of such im­ Apprenticeship Week, in the Turner hall of portance to the community that higher level the Sydney Technical College at Ultimo a hearings would develop case law which seminar on craft and technician training will would act as a guide to other courts. be conducted. The opening session will be addressed by the Hon. F. M. Hewitt, Minis­ I should like to make reference to the ter for Labour and Industry. Any honour­ proposed amendment to the Technical Edu­ able member who is interested in technical cation Act, foreshadowed by His Excellency in his Address. Members of this House education should take the opportunity to displayed extraordinary interest in technical attend. One thing about the Minister for education when the subject was brought for­ Labour and Industry is that he always gets ward for discussion by the Hon. J. W. Ken­ to the point, sometimes quite abruptly. The nedy. The debate in this House led to a third paragraph of the notification of the discussion between the Director of Tech­ seminar is in these terms: nical Education and the Director of Ap­ It is not intended to be a social event. No prenticeships, with honourable members of charge is made for attending and no luncheons or refreshments will be provided as part of this House present. I think it proper to the seminar. The accent will be on learning, invite the attention of honourable members thinking and sharing ideas. The Hon. F. W. Bowen] Governor's Speech: [28 Auo., 1973] Address in Reply 511 Perhaps any honourable member attending always quite an experience. Whether we should take a cut lunch. agree with everything said is not as import­ The Hon. Kathleen Anderson and the ant as the sincerity of each new honourable Hon. Violet Lloyd raised the matter of member's contribution to this debate. I join opportunities for women. Frankly, I had with other honourable members in thanking thought that over past years women had had His Excellency for his continued contribu­ opportunities. I am one of those who are tion to the parliamentary establishment, glad that women are built the way they are. bearing in mind that His Excellency rep­ Women should remember that they cannot resents Her Most Gracious Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. have both equality and preference, that they can have only one or the other. If women Although the subject was not mentioned have equality, the idea of the chauvinistic in the Governor's Speech, I should like to male goes out the window and the chauvin­ make some comments about daylight saving. istic female, whatever that means, comes in. Prior to the commencement of daylight Today there are many opportunities for saving last year, the Premier and Treasurer women to become involved in community established a committee, with the concur­ life, and I certainly subscribe to that idea. rence of the Chief Secretary, to make a general survey of all aspects of daylight I have vivid recollections of chopping wood saving. The committee was under the so that my mother could put the Mother chairmanship of the Hon. H. J. A. Sullivan Potts irons on the fuel stove and boil clothes and consisted of delegates from the United in the copper. I have recollections of carry­ Farmers and Woolgrowers Association, the ing buckets of water to fill the bath, lighting Graziers Association, the Local Government gas lamps, assisting to polish linoleum floors, Association-represented by the Hon. J. W. making soap and helping in tasks of that Kennedy, the Shires Association-rep­ description that were part and parcel of a resented by myself-the Country Womens woman's existence in those days. I am com­ Association, the Federation of Parents and forted by the fact that modem science has Citizens Associations and the NSW cham­ developed the automatic washing machine, bers of manufactures and the dairyfarmers non-frosting refrigerators, clothes dryers, were also associated with the committee. electric irons, non-iron shirts and so on. Representation was offered also to the Today women have been freed to do some Labor Council or the Australian Workers of the things they were not previously able Union, but no representative from either of to do and they should shake hands with those organizations attended any meeting themselves. It took a long time for males of the committee. Meetings of the committee to become free, to become emancipated and were held on 7th and 27th September and throw off the shackles. By comparison, on 18th October last. women are doing reasonably well and they The committee expressed some general should face up to the fact that they cannot opposition to daylight saving, but, because have both equality and preference. it met such a short time before the imple­ I wanted to raise several other matters mentation of the legislation, its suggestions but as there are other honourable members had little impact. Following the committee's who wish to speak I shall wait until those deliberations, I asked the following question matters come before the House in specific of the Leader of the Government in this legislation. I certainly look forward to the House: bills to come before us, not with any joyous I direct a question without notice to the anticipation, but with some trepidation that Leader of the Government in this House. Is they will measure up only to the previous it a fact that a large number of country resi­ performance of this Government. dents are greatly disappointed with daylight saving, especially mothers with young children The Hon. E. K. E. VICKERY [5.16]: who have to travel long distances daily on school buses? If this is a fact, will the Min­ Like previous speakers, I compliment all the ister confer with his Cabinet colleagues with new members of the Council on their a view to holding a referendum on this con­ troversial matter before daylight saving is re­ maiden speeches. A maiden speech is introduced at the beginning of next summer'\ 512 Governor's Speech; [COUNCIL] Address in Reply

Of course, that was referring to last Leave granted [See Addendum]. summer. My question continued: Only about a week ago a deputation from If that is not possible, will the Minister the Namoi shire council and the Narrabri suggest to Cabinet that daylight saving be shortened by a fortnight, by commencing one municipal council waited on the Chief Sec­ week later and finishing one week earlier. retary and presented over 2,000 signatures protesting against daylight saving. I might The Minister suggested that the Govern­ add that much information has appeared ment was willing to consider an ex­ in the press concerning the effect that day­ pression of opinion by the section of the light saving has had on local picture show community that would like to put forward operators. One operator at Narrabri, Mr views against daylight saving. He added Wilson, who controls six or seven theatres that, on the one hand, he thought that the throughout the northern part of New South community supported daylight saving but Wales, has had takings sometimes as low said that it might be well worth look­ as $25 a session. I am a member of the ing at the possibility of reducing day­ Namoi regional library committee and I light saving by a short period, thereby know that book borrowings from the library reducing the time in which school children decreased considerably during the period suffer some disadvantage. Since then there of daylight saving. Though I have reserva­ has been widespread dissatisfaction in the community about daylight saving. tions about the whole idea of daylight sav­ ing I raise these matters because many I should like to make reference to a Gal­ lup poll conducted in the northern part of people in the country are concerned about the State by the Northern Daily Leader. the problem. The Hon. E. H. Humphries Nearly every town in the north and north­ said-it may have been in a private dis­ western section of New South Wales had a cussion-that he had recently toured the majority opposed to daylight saving in its western areas and that wherever he went present form. I seek the leave of the House the people were throwing daylight saving to have this document incorporated in at him. I am trying to put the other side Hansard. of the picture to honourable members.

Addendum REPLIES TO NDL It is expected that there will be a last­ DAYLIGHT SAVING minute rush from supporters of daylight saving, SURVEY NEAR 1000 as well as opponents, now that the one-sided result has become apparent. There were another 100 replies yesterday to Here are some of the centres from which The Leader's daylight saving questionnaire. Leader forms have been returned: Tamworth, This brought the total to more than 900 from Armidale, Ashford, Aberdeen, Barraba, Bin­ four survey forms published in The Leader's gara, Walcha, Bundarra, Kingstown, Uralla, Boggabri, Breeza, Bugilbone siding, Bendemeer, weekly rural feature, Down to Earth, this Currabubula, Carroll, Carroll Gap, Collarene­ month. bri, Caroona, Cobbadah, Curlewis, Delungra, The last form will appear next Tuesday, and Denman, Singleton, Scone, Muswellbrook, results will be announced on Tuesday, April 3. Gunnedah, Emerald Hill, Gurley, Gravesend, Glen Innes, Inverell, Guyra, Bundarra, lnverell, To date only 28 have voted for retention of Kelvin, Emmaville Tenterfield, Limbri, Kootin­ daylight saving compared with 26 on Tuesday. gal, Moonbi, Manilla, Mullaley, Merah North, The majority of the voters have been country Moree, Narrabri, Warialda, North Star, Port residents. Macquarie, Pilliga, Pallamallawa, Somerton, Sawtell, Tambar Springs, Torrington, Upper However, almost half the housewives who Horton, Woolbrook, Wandsworth, Willow have opposed daylight saving are from towns Tree, Walgett, Wee Waa, Werris Creek, Quir­ and cities. indi, Murrurundi, Nemingha, Bowling Alley Point, Duri, Loomberah, Westdale, Apoleby, There has been widespread response from Calala, Hillvue, Woolomin, Gowrie, Garoo, The Leader's north aud north-west circulation Warral, Piallamore, Dungowan, Bitbramere, area. Nundle and Moor Creek. Governor's Speech: [28 AuG., 1973] Address in Reply 513

Though the majority of country people a new significance. The Askin-Cutler vic­ do not agree with daylight saving, many tories in the by-elections for Byron, Armi­ people living in the cities have similar dale and Hawkesbury showed that country views. Perhaps this is a controversial point people, especially, after less than three but there are ways and means of finding out. months of federal Labor rule, were willing This is not a question of putting an argu­ to express a judgment on the Labor party. ment of country versus city; it is a matter Many people may say that the Government's of individual personal opinion. As I said majority was reduced, but the important in my question without notice to the Minis­ thing about a race horse is that it is first ter, the people hardest hit are young coun­ past the post. try mothers who have to get the kiddies off to school on the school bus each day. The Hon. J. B. M. FuLLER: We shall be Often these mothers do not get out of the first past the post after the federal Budget. kitchen until after eleven o'clock at night The Hon. E. K. E. VICKERY: We shall and yet have to be up at four in the morn­ hear more about that later. Much has hap­ ing-almost the crack of dawn-to put the pened since the February by-elections. The children on a bus for possibly a 30- mood of the people has changed still further mile trip to school. I remind hon­ and a feeling of uneasiness, concern and ourable members that the bus has to be apprehension is now about. Nowhere is this met in the heat of the afternoon so that more evident than among people in the the children can be collected on their re­ rural areas. Next month's federal by-election turn from school. Regular rest and regular for the seat of Parramatta will give the Hon. meals are essential for a growing child, as E. G. Whitlam a clear answer to his swash­ any paediatrician will confirm. To put an buckling national independence and his end to the squabble the Government should strange new world of foreign policy marked at least obtain a proper expression of by insults to old friends and unseemly haste opinion by referendum or failing that, as I to court new and untried ones. When a little mentioned earlier, it should reduce the day­ later the State electors of Murray have their light saving period by about two weeks, opportunity to make a further political putting the greater proportion of this time judgment, we shall see how much influence within school holidays. the brave words of the Hon. J. R. Hallam have on country people in the south. His I should have liked to make a comment attempts in this Chamber to put forward about the importance of tourism to this the view that his party has a political role country and to refer to the activities-or to play in the country and has a defined inactivities-of the State Planning Auth­ rural policy do not ring true. ority. I understand that my time is reason­ The Hon. J. R. HALLAM: Labor has ably limited so perhaps on a more approp­ twenty-two rural seats, which is two more riate occasion I shall have something to say than the Country Party has. about both these important matters of con­ The Ron. E. K. E. VICKERY: That cern to New South Wales and, indeed, all may be so, but it did not quite ring true Australia. However, I must make some ref­ when we heard the arguments put in this erence to the criticism levelled at the Coun· House by the Hon. J. R. Hallam. His try Party by the Hon. J. R. Hallam. Appar­ attack on the Country Party and its leaders ently the view is widely held in the Labor is futile. The country people of this State Party that Australia's development has have no doubt concerning just where their own Country Party stands. The result of reached such a stage that we may now by­ the Murray by-election will give the honour­ pass the farm industries. The farming com­ able member his answer. The Hon. J. R. munity is getting a raw deal from the Labor Hallam endeavoured to lay the blame for Government in Canberra. The State by­ the farm economic crisis on lack of leader­ elections in February, described in some ship by the Country Party. His view, ex­ quarters as a mini-general election, took on pressed in this Chamber, is that the crisis 33 514 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL] Address in Reply occurred because governments of the day The Hon. E. K. E. VICKERY: Ob­ sought leadership instead of giving it. He viously the farmer owns it. The principle went on to say that often during the period of majority producer control had to be from 1969 to 1972 the federal Country fought for many years ago, against the Party leader, Mr Anthony, and his col­ strong opposition of political and vested leagues in the State sphere said, "Tell me interests. Eventual acceptance of the prin­ what you want" or "Give me a lead". ciple was one of the great victories. of the Australian primary producer. But, as the The Hon. L. A. SoLOMONS: He prob­ federal Country Party leader, Mr Allthony, ably meant that we did not consult Dr has. pointed out, this principle is much more Coombs. important now than ever before. The great The Hon. E. K. E. VICKERY: That body of primary producers will agree with might be correct too. Unlike the federal the statement by Mr Anthony that the Labor ministers, who now seek in true, Country Party remains firmly attached to socialist style to dictate to producers and the principle that the best expert advice and exercise rigid control, the Country Party has the most effective and efficient methods always recognized the need for producers to must be applied to the marketing of primary have majority control in the marketing of products, but that the ultimate control must their own produce. Farm stabilization remain in the hands of the grower. schemes, government financial assistance I believe the Hon. 0. M. Falkiner ade­ and other marketing aids have been intro­ quately discussed the wool industry. How­ duced by Comatry Party ministers as part ever, it will be recaFled that when the of a sound and continuing rural policy. Country Party leaders were making their The co-operation that was established be­ determined stand to rescue the woolgrowers tween the Country Party and producers' of this country, they met a tirade of city­ leaders. was a guarantee of effective and inspired criticism and charges of sectional practical action. So strong has been the support through using the taxpayers' Country Party leadership in rural affairs, money. This criticism was almost unparal­ and so effective the results, that the party leled in the history of the party. Many has received strong criticism from the city mass media writers and others at the time press and Labor politicians for its success were willing to write off the wool industry in defending the rights of producers and as of little permanent value to the rural helping to stabilize the marketing of a wide areas or the national economy. There was range of commodities. Such criticism,. in particular opposition to the operations of the eyes of the countryman, is praise indeed. the Australian Wool Commission, which was However, the federal Labor Government is described as a threat to the free auction showing a strong desire to withhold from system and a limitless sink for public producers the right to control the marketing moneys. But within six months of com­ of their own products. This basic principle mencing its operations the commission's of primary industry policy is under chal­ remarkable success effectively answered the lenge. critics. It is little wonder that one speaker at a Deniliquin meeting of woolgrowers de­ The recent federal Labor conference at clared, "There is no doubt that Doug An­ Surfers Paradise decided to alter from thony saved the wool industry." "majority" to "adequate" the producer rep­ When prices appeared to be heading for resentation on marketing boards. Who will almost total collapse, the commission com­ decide what "adequate" means? Does the menced its buying operations at auctions. Hon. J. R. Hallam agree with that change? The stockpile rapidly built up to more than More important, will the people he claims 900,000 bales,. but a floor was placed in the to represent in the southern farming regions market, to the benefit of woolgrowers. By welcome such a change? feeding stocks on to the auction market The Hon. T. R. ERSKINE: Who owns the when prices firmed, and offering supplies product, anyhow? direct to overseas buyers, the commission Governmr's Speech: [28 AuG., 1973] Add11ess in Reply 515 was able to dispose of the whole of its stock­ been responsible for continuing the system. pile at profitable prices·. Some of the mea" The former president of the Australian sures that were introduced with strong Wheatgrowers Federation emphatically Country Party support when the crisis point declared, "I will say with certainty that his­ for wool arrived were, first, emergency fin­ tory will record that quotas saved the Aus­ ancial assistance to woolgrowers in 1970-71, tralian wheat industry." The present presi­ to the extent of $22 million-this was a dent of the federation, Mr Max Ridd, when short-term measure to assist in maintaining announcing his organization's decision to confidence; second, the introduction in continue the quotas said, "We would lose 1971-72 of the 36c alb wool deficiency pay­ all cFedibility in our international dealings ment scheme, to meet the still further de­ if we abandoned quotas." cline in wool prices; third, the creation of the Australian Wool Commission, and fin­ The Ron. J. R. HALLAM: What about ancial backing to establish a floor in the quotas this year? market; and finally, the opportunity to intro­ The Hon. E. K. E. VICKERY: The law duce marketing reforms and modern hand­ of supply and demand will rectify that. ling methods, through unified control under the Australian Wool Corporation. The Ron. J. R. HALLAM: But some people who have a quota will not have wheat crops. These .four items assisted mateFially, and What does the Government intend to do led to the present much better position in about that? the wool industry. These are effective answers to the critics who declare that the The Hon. J. B. M. FULLER: We will bring Country Party failed to act in the interests up this subject very soon. of the wool industry. History may well re­ The Hon. E. K. E. VICKERY: The call that the wool decisions of the Country Minister has indicated what is likely to Party during the past few years constitute happen. The Hon. J. R. Hallam would its most effective and far-reaching political have the wheatgrowers believe that the act. wheat surplus in 1968-69, with the dire Support for sound development of the threat of a wheat explosion in this country, wheat industry and continuance of an effec­ could have been overcome by extra storage, tive stabilization scheme have been basic and a two-pool system. It will go on record objectives of the Country Party over many that the wheat storages throughout the years. The party has assisted the industry country areas of New South Wales, when by the provision of government financial increased by the Liberal-Country party support and close co-operation with the State and Commonwealth governments, growers' representatives in maintaining a underwent the biggest expansion in history; home price based on a cost-of-production that is, apart from what the primary pro­ formula, and backing for a major propor­ ducer did on his own behalf. tion of the export surplus. The Ron. H. J. McPHERSoN: A lot of The Ron. H. J. McPHERSON: But was it those temporary storages were sold for pea- not a Labor government that brought in nuts. wheat stabilization? The Hon. E. K. E. VICKERY:· I am The Ron. E. K. E. VICKERY: Yes, but referring to large and substantial silos. As the Country Party continued what was a the Hon. H. J. McPherson has indicated, good policy. Some Labor ministers and some jerry-built buildings have ceased to be supporters have charged the previous federal used and hav>e been dismantled. They may Government with imposing on the industry have heen soid for peamlts., I d" not know, the system of· annual production quotas, but but they were not substantial buildings. it was t:he whea1rg·rowers' own federal What an unreal attitude to have adopted at organization, and not the Government, that that time. The industry or the Govern­ sought the introduction of quotas, and has ment ·could not have stood the financial 516 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL] Address in Reply strain of a policy under which the sky was field of knowledge and experience. As the limit. It is the small, struggling grower time goes on their contributions to the de­ who would have been forced to the wall. bates on legislation for the State of New With prospects for the wheat industry now South Wales will prove to be invaluable. set fair for high prices and profitable export During this debate on the motion for the markets in the next few years it is easy adoption of the Address in Reply to the to try to tickle the ears of wheatgrowers Governor's Speech much has been said with stories of what might have been. The about many things by members of the Gov­ Labor Party now has its big opportunity, ernment and of the Opposition. Many com­ in determining for the next five years a ments have been made suggesting what the stabilization plan, to demonstrate just how Government ought to have done or ought real its concern for the wheat industry is. to do shortly. Much has been said about But the growers have cause for apprehen­ what the Government has not done and sion. The present one-year extension to the should have done. I propose to refer scheme is regarded in some quarters as specifically to things that ought to have merely a political tactic and a breathing been done or ought not to have been done space for the federal Government before by legislation. Generally speaking the the next election. speeches made by members on this side of The Ron. J. R. HALLAM: It wants a one­ the House have drawn attention to the year scheme, to improve stabilization. shortcomings of the Government over the years. Even members on the Government The Ron. E. K. E. VICKERY: I think side have drawn attention to shortcomings the Hon. J. R. Hallam will agree that a of the Government in its legislation. They stabilization scheme for one year is hardly have done it less conspicuously than mem­ worth the paper it is written on. I was bers on the Opposition side who have not indicating that the one-year extension could found it necessary to try to be polite in be regarded as a political tactic before the drawing attention to shortcomings and axe really falls, during discussions on the omissions. I am pleased that new members stabilization scheme to take place later this of the Opposition, and for that matter all year. Conflicting statements by the Hon. members of the Opposition, who have E. G. Whitlam and Senator the Hon. K. S. spoken during this debate, with one or two Wriedt certainly do not help to lift the minor exceptions perhaps in answer to inter­ confidence of growers. Dairymen have jection or something of that kind, have done already felt the first economic jolt from so in a constructive manner. As a general rule comments from this side of the House Labor's new economic policy. Not for have been constructive whereas members nothing has Prime Minister Whitlam pro­ on the Government side who have spoken claimed that he leads a government for the have resorted to political invective mainly cities. related to matters in the federal sphere. The Hon. H. J. McPHERSON (Deputy I dare say that a visitor to the gallery Leader of the Opposition) [5.43]: I join during the speeches of some Government with other honourable members who have members could have been forgiven for thinking that this was federal Parliament spoken during this debate in sincerely con­ debating the federal Budget. Do not mem­ gratulating all new members. I congratulate bers on the Government side think that them, first, on having been elected to this their counterparts in the Australian Parlia­ House; second, on having made their ment are capable of debating a budget maiden speeches which is quite a psycho­ brought down by the first Labor Govern­ logical hazard to overcome; and, third, on ment for twenty-three years? Today is the the high standard set by them in their start of the fourth week of debating a fairly speeches. I am certain that all honourable simple and straightforward motion that was members appreciate that the new members moved by the Hon. W. J. Holt. It is a have demonstrated the possession of a wide motion similar to one that was moved in Governor's Speech: [28 AUG., 1973] Address in Reply 517 another place. There is no doubt in the Government in 194 7 when it implemented a mind of any member of this House or in 40-hour week. Tha.t type of leadership another place that the motions will be car­ would go a long way towards obviating ried unanimously by the respective Houses. most areas of industrial trouble. Through­ During the whole of the debate in both out the State there is extreme exploitation Houses there has not been one word of of consumers in relation to almost all com­ dissent regarding our appreciation to His modities, yet the Government does nothing Excellency for his Speech and our continued about it. Since 2nd December, 1972, the loyalty to Her Majesty's throne and person, Premier and supporters of the Government or with regard to giving our earnest con­ of this State have been able to launch un­ sideration to all measures presented to us bridled attacks on the Australian Govern­ and our hope for divine guidance in our ment whereas in its first eight years of office deliberations in the interests of the people the Premier and his Ministers held back of this State and the nation. some of the punches they should have The motion comes about as a result thrown in relation to .the unfair deal the of the Speech delivered to this Parliament States received from the Commonwealth. on 8th August by His Excellency. Along Because the new Government in Canberra with other honourable members who have is of a different complexion from the New spoken I agree that in this State, and in this South Wales Government this State has Parliament, we are privileged and honoured adopted a policy of passing the buck. to have such a distinguished Australian as The New South Wales Government has our Governor. I emphasize the word "Aus­ done nothing to control land prices, though tralian". His Excellency has distinguished it has power to do so. Many issues are himself in many fields, and has demon­ involved in this subject but the fact is that strated his ability, among a lot of other the State Government and not the Austra­ abilities, to make an enlightened, discerning lian Government has power to take action. and penetrating speech. On this occasion, The State Government should become in­ as in the past, His Excellency has presented terested in doing something to control land to the Parliament of New South Wales a prices, especially the price of the ordinary Speech prepared by the State Government. block of land sought by potential home It is because of this that the Speech re­ builders. The Government has left land volves mainly around trumpet blowing by prices entirely to private en!_erpris_e. In this the State Government. An election is fast situation private enterprise means private approaching and the State Government took speculators and accumulators who make the opportunity to refer to its few achieve­ profits at the expense of those who can least ments and its meagre plans for the future. afford it. Residents of New South Wales For four weeks both Houses of Parliament expect and should have the right to purchase have debated similar Address-in-Reply a homesite at a reasonable price. Govern­ motions. Though the Parliament went into ment supporters have uttered long and sus­ recess on 11th April and did not resume tained cries in this debate about the policies until August, for the first four weeks of the of what they call the centralist Government new session it has devoted its time to general in Canberra. Had the New South Wales debate. The Government has not done any­ Government been a little more efficient in thing to bring forward the legislation that its handling of education, transport, housing is pressing in many different spheres. The and land values it might not have been whole of the Parliament has spent four necessary for the federal Government to take the step that has been taken. I shall weeks in debate while the Government ig­ return to the so-called centralist policies a nores the demand for legislation. little later. The unprecedented extent of industrial In His Excellency's Speech we were told unrest that exists in New South Wales de­ that the Government proposes to introduce mands positive action and leadership by the measures to strengthen the law in relation Government. The Government should take to consumer protection. A bill is being pre­ action similar to that taken by the Labor pared to deal with misrepresentation and 518 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL] Address in Reply fraud associated with the sale of new and In regard to the fiasco of tranferring secondhand motor cars. Earlier today the the control of the Bathurst-Orange growth Minister for Decentralisation and Develop­ centre scheme from one department to the ment gave a fairly lengthy answer to a other, I am aware that the House has been question relating to the price of land for assured that the relevant discussions and home building. He did not say whether the agreement originated as early as March last Government would do this or that, but he but I wonder how much of these discussions did say that ultimately, and if necessary, or pressures, or reason for the change, had some action would be taken. I should like to do with a protest meeting attended by to know his definition of how long ulti­ some 150 or 200 traditional Country Party mately is. Rising land prices are 3: real supporters who took their protest to the problem. The escalation of these prices has Deputy Premier, Minister for Local Gov­ been with us for a long time. Government ernment and Minister for Highways? If my supporters are pr-one to blame increased information is corfect-and I :do not doubt land prices on wage rises but I remind them it-for their trouble in taking this protest that this problem existed when the Liberal­ to Sir Charles they were soundly abused. Country party coalition was in power in Canberra. In the past twelve months the The Hon. J. B. M. FULLER~ There has increase in the pr.ice of land in Australia has been no change in the original planning. It been no different from changes in other was not transferred from one department to western countries. another. Therefore the honourable member has no basis for his comment. It was always Parliament is to be asked to ratify a new agreed that the State Planning Authority Commonwealth-State housing agreement, was responsible for the planning. which is in the course of preparation. One might ask why could not this sort of thing The Hon. H. J. McPHERSON: I agree be prepared during the recess'? Already I with that, but I stilt wonder specifically have stated that the Parliament did not sit what made the permanent head of the De­ between 11th April and Eth August, yet we partment of Decentralisation and Develop­ have spent the first four weeks of the new ment suddenly not see eye to eye with the session in general debate. At this stage we Minister in charge of the department? Hon­ are told that these bills are being prepared ourable members will be :asked to pass legis­ and, as the Minister said earlier, ultimately lation dealing with the control ,of pollution they will come forward for consideration. and the protection of the ·environment. How Meanwhile, thousands of people in this much can we rely on that statement in His State are seeking land and finance for ExceUency's .Address, when recently it has homes. Those people are not seeking a been reported-and I think reliably-that hand-out from the Government; they are the Minister for Environment Control has willing to do the job themselves. They are decided to quit politics? One of the reasons carrying out a policy of self-help and all given in the press has been that the Minis­ they need is a policy from the Govemment. ter has been completely frustrated-and this is borne ·out by the amount of money that Honourable members w.ill be asked to en­ has not been allocated to his department­ dorse a bill for the establishment of a growth when he bas tried to enforce within govern­ centre authority and to provide for ment departments legislation affecting en­ stabilization of land values in such growth vironment control. centres. For four weeks we have been ask­ ing questions about growth centres and land Honourable members have also been told values and in that time nothJng bas beet;~ that there will be amendments to legislation done by way of legislation. In- the mean­ dealing with land tax, payroll tax, stamp time, the speculators and the accumulators duty, va•luation of land, and so >On. We are reaping a second harvest from the in­ should take this as a warning. Judged by creases in the price of land. In fact, much of the proposed legislation will be a bit like the past performance of this Gover-nment shutting the stable door after the horse has alterations to those imports can be only one bolted. way-upwards. As I have said, during the The Hon. H. J. McPherson] Governor's Speech: [28 Auo., 1'973] Address in Reply 519 four weeks of this debate no legislation has attitude of the Country Party. Suddenly, been introduced. As to His Excellency's after twenty-four years, it has lost the 6-foot reference to an improvement in the stan­ crowbal[' :rhat it used to spin the wheel in dard of transport services, I concede that the federal arena. the Public Transport Commission of New South Wales has started to catch up on the The Hon. L. A. SoLOMONS: The Deputy backlog and has made some improvement. Leader of the Opposition is complimenting On the other hand, there has been no legis­ us again. lation in regard to public transport. The The Hon. H. J. McPHERSON: I take Government has failed to provide adequate my hat off to members of the Country protection for citizens against criminals, Party for getting themselves into such an failed to protect the investing public against influential position over the years as to make dishonest company directors and failed to any relationship between one man and one guarantee equality before the law. vote purely accidental. The Country Party During this debate several honourable has been successful in forcing upon Aus­ members, including at least two Government tralia and State governments policies that supporters, have commented on the breath favoured country areas. Its influence was of fresh air that has been blown through out of all proportion to the number of this Chamber by some of the new members. people that it represented. I agree with that comment. I should like to The Hon. J. B. M. FuLLER: Just the see that breath of fresh air gather momen­ same, they are an important section of the tum so that it becomes a gale sweeping community. away outmoded procedures of this House and of the Parliament. These procedures The Hon. H. J. McPHERSON: Living should be streamlined and modernized, in a rural community in the city of Wagga so becoming more effective. I see nothing Wagga-the best in the State-! am well in His Excellency's Speech to justify the aware that even Wagga Wagga could not statement by many Government supporters survive were it not for the affluence of in this House that it gives a dynamic lead to people in the rural districts surrounding the the people for the continued development city but, unfortunately, for three or four of the State. years that affluence has been missing. Yet I still say that some of the policies followed The only redeeming feature over the for twenty-three years by the former federal past four weeks has been the wealth Government and by this State Government of knowledge and experience displayed by are out of all proportion, favouring those new honourable members and, of course, in the rural sectors by comparison with wage the fact that they have had the opportun­ earners in the cities and the towns who are ity to speak in the House. Nevertheless, if just as entitled to have an assured, satis­ there were no such thing as an Address-in­ factory income as has any farmer who has Reply debate there would sti11 be opportun­ inherited 600, 700 or 1,000 acres through ities for honourable members to speak. Then, perhaps, the Government would in­ no effort of his own. troduce some of its promised legislation. It is pleasing to know that the Minister This debate on the Address in Reply will for Transport realizes the significance and have been a completely abortive exercise value of the Australian Government's offer unless the Government takes note of what to finance State transport systems. It is has been said and the suggestions by hon­ obvious, as Government supporters have ourable members on both sides of the said from time to time, that the State does House. not have the finance to get its transport There are several other matters that I system out of trouble. Certainly, the New want to raise. Some of the statements made South Wales Government has shown little by supporters of the Government verge business acumen when by increasing fares it on political hysteria. I understand the discouraged people from using the State 520 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL] Address in Reply railway system. Last Thursday honourable trading undertakings and recreational activ­ ities should be financed by those who use them, members heard an hysterical outburst from except where presently subsidised by Govern­ the Hon. T. R. Erskine on national defence. ments grants; It smacked of statements made by Liberal­ roads, bridges and their maintenance should Country party politicians back in 1949 and be financed from the imposition of a fuel tax since then--especially the DLP part of the by the federal Government. Liberal-Country party coalition. At every In spite of what members of the Country federal election since 1949 this red herring Party would have us believe, the United has been dragged across the trail in front Farmers and Woolgrowers Association is of the electors. happy with most of the policies of the so­ The Hon. EILEEN FURLEY: If they had called centralist Government in Canberra, not had this outlook in 1949 we should though I concede that that organization is not have won the war. not happy with some of them. I conclude with one comment on educa­ The Hon. H. J. McPHERSON: I am tion. It has been well publicised that the glad that the Hon. Eileen Furley threw in Australian Government is making an extra that remarkable comment. Let us face the 92 per cent of money available for educa­ facts: it was the Menzies Government that tion. I hope that the State Government could not fight the war. gets off its tail and uses its share of this The Hon. Sir EDWARD WARREN: The money. I remember that in the 1966-1968 Deputy Leader of the Opposition is talking triennium the Australian Universities Com­ of the Boer war. mission made available to New South Wales an amount of $800,000 for the establish­ The Hon. H. J. McPHERSON: I am ment of the Bathurst college of advanced not as old as that. It was the Labor Party education and $800,000 for the establish­ that was asked to lead Australia during the ment for the Wagga Wagga college of ad­ war years. It did so and effectively mar­ vanced education. Because the coalition shalled all the manpower and physical re­ Government did not get moving the sources of this nation to prosecute the war. $800,000 for the Wagga Wagga college was As the Hon. T. R. Erskine said, as an ex­ major I appreciate that Australia must have lost. The Australian Government has stated sound defence, but hysterical outbursts like what it will do. The States will get the his the other day will give us nothing but money; the figures are there in the Budget. another Vietnam. This State Government should get cracking, I should like to deal now with the charge instead of waiting in the hope of gaining a of centralism. I refer to the Local Govern­ victory at the next State elections. ment Association's News Sheet of 17th The Minister for Education recently August, 1973. On the back page is a refer­ ence to the fact that the Local Government issued to all parents and citizens associa­ Association had discussions with the United tions a consultative document. I shall deal Farmers and Woolgrowers Association. A with this only briefly and not in the detailed few moments ago the Hon. E. K. E. Vickery way that I had planned. If we look at this went so some trouble to point out that a document we see that it is only in the last committee met last year on daylight saving. three pages that the intention of the depart­ Probably the most powerful-in numbers, ment and the Minister is stated. Because anyway-of the rural producer associations of this statement of intention and the word­ is the United Farmers and Woolgrowers ing-it is not sufficiently spelled out- I Association. Th:;tt organization pointed out have found in my travels throughout New to the Local Government Association at this South Wales that serious confusion exists in conference: parents and citizens associations and teacher U.F.W.A's policy is that: groups on several aspects of this consulta­ health, education and welfare should be fully financed by the Australian Government; tive document. Governor's Speech: [28 Auo., 1973] Address in Reply 521 I have scrutinized this consultative docu­ question the practice of debating for so ment, especially where it deals with future many hours the motion for the adoption of developments, administration of schools, the Address in Reply when outstanding and so forth. Does it mean that there will legislation should be undertaken by the Gov­ be no State government policy on educa­ ernment to alleviate some of the problems of tion, that there will be no consistent stan­ the people of New South Wales. dard of education throughout the State, or even wit?in a region? I have read page 12 The Hon. W. J. HOLT [6.25], in reply: I several times, and I find that it spells out thank all honourable member who made nothing. It implies that there will be no kind remarks about my maiden speech, statewide government policy on education, and I congratulate the other honourable no consistent standard throughout the State, members who during this debate delivered and no consistency throughout a region. commendable maiden speeches. I thank Perhaps this is the Government's way of honourable members from this side of the ag.ain having two bob each way-saying one House who have replied to so many of the thmg before an election and something dif­ issues raised during the debate; I thank par­ ferent afterwards. This document provides ticularly those honourable members who for throwing open all teaching positions, dealt with country issues, some of which I perhaps by advertisement. I should not like do not fully understand at this stage. Now to see again what happened at the Riverine that the Labor Party bas shut the door to college of advanced education, where the what it describes as Pitt Street or Phillip policy was to advertise for staff. It is an Street farmers, perhaps I shall never be in exceptionally good college, with highly a position to understand them. One wonders qualified academics; but none of the staff what the Labor Party proposes for the has teacher training experience. All con­ countryman. Senator Wriedt admits that he cerned concede that in the foreseeable future knows little about country matters, and I 80 or 90 per cent of the work of the college cannot believe that the Labor Party pro­ will involve teacher training. poses an elitist society, consisting of only the people left in the country areas. Does the establishment of a school coun­ cil mean the disbanding of parents and citi­ Perhaps the Labor Party, having shut the zens' associations? This consultative paper door to people such as myself and other does not detail responsibility boundaries; it professional and business people who have says that school councils will have the re­ invested in the country and provided em­ sponsibility of spending funds, but I question ployment, is proposing to introduce its heavy the source of these funds. Will they come socialist machinery in an attempt to lop the from the education vote? If so, will the tall poppies. It must realize that it would Government lose control of the money once crush the small ones underneath as well, as it is voted? Then there are the questions of happened recently to the small man when the general operating costs, teachers, salaries, federal Budget was introduced. I do not know whether the Government in Canberra appointment of teachers, and so on. Is this appreciated the number of little men and to be a successful State education system, women who are past the lusty beer-drinking as it was certainly up to 1965? I agree with days and are confining themselves, on doc­ decentralization, but a statewide standard tors' advice and for medical purposes, to a and an Australia-wide standard must be set small glass of whisky at night. I have met a in the field of education, and the State must number of these people during the practice have a central control for policy, finance of my profession, particularly on the liquor and the appointment of teachers. side. I hope that I have not unduly delayed the In my limited time I want to make some House, but it was imperative that I put these reply to what was said by the Hon. W. C. points. Indeed, already I have shortened my Peters. I do not know what I did to provoke remarks by about 20 minutes. With due re­ the honourable member's abuse of my an­ spect to the Governor, Sir Roden Cutler, I cestry, myself and my chosen profession. 522 Governor's Speech~ [COUNCIL] Address in Reply My family was accused of coming to this I shall leave it to the Leader of the country in chains, and I would be pleased Opposition and the uther legal gentle­ to let the honourable member know-- men oa the other side of the House to explain quietly to the Bon. W. C. The Hon. W. C. PETE~s: I do not think Peters the number of years of unpaid work I made that remark. which are required to become a barrister, The Hon. W. J. HOLT: The honourable the number of years it takes to become member should read in Hansard what he established, the lack of security and the lack said. What the honourable member said of any employer paying superannuation gives me an opportunity to publicize a book upon retirement-and no country property. by my father, An Energetic Colonist, which The Leader of the Opposition made cer­ was recently published about the life of my tain comments about my belief in the bi­ great-grandfather. A copy is available in cameral system and my regret that the the parliamentary library, but if it is not Labor Party's policy was to abolish not only readily available to the honourable member, the Legislative Council but also the Senate. I shall provide him with a copy. In his reply the Leader of the Opposition drew my attention to a resolution passed at The Hon. W. C. PETERs: The honourable the June State conference of the Labor member should obtain a copy of Hansard, Party by which it was proposed that this and see what I said. House should be reformed and a popular The Hon. W. J. HOLT: The honourable franchise introduced. I have since had the member suggested I was born with a silver opportunity of reading a document pro­ spoon. All I can reply is that if the honour­ duced by the Bulletin and purporting to able member were to have a talk with my contain the latest Australian Labor Party bank manager, he would change his mind. policy as approved at the biennial confer­ So far as my profession is concerned, I ence of the party at Surfers Paradise be­ do not know whether the Leader of the tween 8th and 13th July this year. This Opposition said something in the party body is described as being the supreme room to stir the Hon. W. C. Peters, but he policy-making body of the party. It is said delivered this homily-almost an obsession that everyone from Prime Minister down -about the alleged iniquities of my pro­ to the rank and file member is hound by fession and gross overcharging by legal men. its decisions, which I assume will include the members sitting opposite. The Hon. W. C. PETERS: The honourable member would surely not deny that. The wording of this document on the issue of the abolition of the Upper House, The Hon. W. J. HOLT: Members of my coming one month after the stand of which profession do not seem to accumu1ate the fhe Leader of the Opposition spoke, re­ vast property resources that other members endorsed the policy that this House be of the community occasionally do. The abolished provided that it is not prevented honourable member suggested that methods from being reformed in the meantime-in other words while the axe is on the way used for setting workers' wages should be down you are allowed to say a prayer-and used for setting lawyers' incomes. Perhaps re-endorsed the abolition of the Senate. The he ·could tell me the manner in which trade Labor Party in this State advocates reform union presidents have their salaries assessed. of the Legislative Council to make .it elective On behalf of my profession I resent what I --that might be because of the rightwing regard as an attack by the honourable mem­ majority in New South Wales ·of which we ber on one of the oldest and noblest pro­ are told in this House from time to time fessions. I remind the House that the rule and the left wing federal body-whereas the of law is the keystone of our demo­ federal body wants to abolish it and at the cratic system. A free and independent bar same time to abolish the Senate, which it and legai profession are essential to .the pro-­ concedes to be elective. The Leader of the tection of the rights. of the individual. Opposition described the policies of the Governor's Speech: [28 Auo., 1973] Address in Reply 523 Labor Party in relation to the Senate and public morals or, in other words, there must be the Legislative Council as being lucid, logi­ some pernicious tendency in the keepi.1g of cal and intelligible. .However, when one those particular premises. considers what happened in June and what On no [ess than four occasions in the past happened in Surfers Paradise at the supreme four years attempts have been made to close level, it would seem that the two are com­ down common gaming houses, but on ap­ pletely irreconcilable. peal to the Supreme Court the attempts The Leader of the Opposition made some have been unsuccessful and judges have comments on the Gaming and Betting Act commented that the definition of public mis­ and gambling casinos, as he chose to call chief, nuisance, and so on-referring to Mr them. In case honourable members have Justice Street's judgment-must be looked not had the opportunity to read last Wed­ at in the context of contemporary Austra­ nesday's Hmisard, I shall read the Premier's lian society where gambling in the form of answer to a question in another place. Re­ poker machines, Totalizator Agency Board ferring to a recent communication from the betting on horse-racing and such matters Commissioner of Police, he said: have been legalized. Mr Justice Isaacs in Ex parte Slocombe re Rose Holdings Pty . . . as a result of police action it has Limited & Others in a judgment dated 11th been found that two of the clubs suspected of illegal gambling have ceased operations and September, 1970, saw fit to comment as fol­ there has been a marked decrease in the num­ lows when referring to the meaning of public ber of persons seeking entry to other such mischief and a nuisance injurious to public premises. morals referred to in Mr Justice Street's Referring to the Commissioner of Police, judgment which I referred to previously: the Premier continued: The Australian scene, in New South Wales in any event, is totally different to the common He went on to say that he had increased law English scene and the common law prin­ the size of No. 21 special squad which has ciples and concepts of perniciousness, public been active in effecting entry into suspected mischief and injury to public morals on which gambling clubs. He further reported that in the common law founded common gaming the past eight weeks a total of twenty-seven house are quite inapt in this State. Not only has raids have been successfully carried out on industry over the years reduced working hours premises being used for the playing of the fmm something in excess of 56 per week to 35 unlawful game of manila; three premises had with clamouring for still further reductions to been successfully raided fo(l)f the unlawf1d play­ increase leisure hours for recreation and social ing of baccarat, and one for playing the illegal enjoyment but, not withstanding the disapproval game of roulette. In addition, one two-up of some highly respectable sections of the com­ ·game was raided. The commissioner said that munity, the legislation of this State has been premises that are from time to time referred for a number of years continually slanted to­ to as casinos were included in the raids. wards providing more and more opportunities for gambling for the puhlic in its increased The Premier then said that the Attorney­ leisure hours. State lotteries for general pur­ General was looking into the question of poses, an Opera House lottery which it would strengthening the Act One of the problems seem has come to stay in perpetuity, poker machines, horse racing almost every day of the that many people do not appreciate in rela­ week, trotting in day-time and night-time, dog tion to the issue encountered by the police races day and night for virtually every night in over the years has been the lack of a defini­ the weekend and the establishment of TAB tion of common gaming house in the Act. with all its facilities and branches in Sydney and country in other States of the Common­ In 1943, shortly after Labor came to power wealth are all familiar instances of this ever­ New South Wales, Mr Justice Street, in growing tendency. Eggins v. Wilcox, volume 60 Weekly Notes, The Hon. H. J. McPHERSON: Those ref­ page 215, imported the common law defini­ erences do not seem to support the Premier's tion to common gaming house which is as statement. follows: The Hon. W. J. HOLT: Wait a moment. At common law in order to constitute pre­ With that background of judicial decision mises a common gaming house the premises and bearing in mind the fact that the Labor must be kept for gaming in such a manner and under such circumstances as to constitute Party saw no reason in twenty-three years a public mischief or a nuisance injurious to after Mr Justice Street's judgment to 524 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL] Address in Reply strengthen the Act-and nobody can sug­ against him, and that the opinion of an in­ gest to me that at that stage a certain gaming spector damaging to the reputation of a house in Sydney was not notorious­ person may be published even though the the Attorney-General has indicated person is given no opportunity to answer that he is looking into ways and means of the allegation which may be based upon strengthening the hand of the police in this evidence not admissible in a court of law. matter. This is not easy and we must be Thus this special investigation is an extreme ever watchful that, in attempting to close measure to be used in extreme cases. On the down two so-called casinos that seem to be question of publication of the fruits of this withering on the vine, we do not so increase investigation, the Law Council of Australia police powers that we run the risk of future in 1967 said: abuses to the liberty of the individual and The Government is empowered to print and the sanctity of his property and home, and publish any interim or final reports. Such a of other forms of oppresion better known report may contain the most defamatory or to less democratic lands. other damaging material concerning persons or companies who have had no opportunity The Leader of the Opposition made an prior to its publication to answer or even be attack upon the Attorney-General relating aware of allegations made against them. It to investigations of companies under the may also contain damaging material represent­ ing the finding or opinion of the inspector on Companies Act. He referred to the fact matters of which there may be no evidence at that thirteen reports were with the Crown all, or at least insufficient evidence to satisfy Solicitor and to what he described as in­ any court. ordinate delays. It seems that the Leader of the Opposition has confused the distinction The Law Council recommended that there between the special investigation provisions should be a prohibition against the publica­ of part VIA of the Companies Act-under tion of any part of a report. The legislatures which only four investigations have been have set these objections aside in promoting launched since the Attorney-General took a strong company investigation machinery in office-and routine investigations conducted the public interest but it is clear that these by the Corporate Affairs Commission in the reports should be made public only where discharge of the day-to-day policing activi­ in the Attorney-General's view public in­ ties under the Act. There has never been formation outweighs the hearsay evidence any suggestion of which I am aware­ and opinions of inspectors on criminal and except in a recent press editorial, which made a similar error, subsequently pointed civil liability, which views may not be based out in a letter to that paper by the Com­ on admissible evidence in a criminal or civil missioner for Corporate Affairs-that the court. I am sure the Leader of the Opposi­ routine investigations should be published. tion would not propose public trial by news­ There would be no better reason to do so paper on inadmissible evidence or trial by than for releasing police reports about in­ inspector-that would be one step worse vestigations which led to criminal proceed­ than a kangaroo court. It would be un­ ings. thinkable that in any event these reports As to special investigations under part VIA might be published while criminal proceed­ of the Companies Act, it should be realized ings were being considered. Generally the that the power of investigation is very interest of the public is satisfied· by the re­ wide-ranging indeed and at the time of its port of proceedings in a public court. Only introduction criticism was levelled at the after these proceedings have been con­ fact that a company is given no opportunity cluded is it proper to consider publication to show cause why its affairs should not be of the report, bearing in mind the factors investigated, that a person called before an to which I have adverted. The only two inspector may be compelled to answer ques­ other groups having a real interest in the tions which may incriminate him, though result of the investigation are creditors and the answers cannot be used in evidence shareholders. The Hon. W.l. Holt] Address in Reply [28 Auo., 1973] Petition 525

Under the investigations provision of the Motion (by the Hon. J. B. M. Fuller) 1971 amending Act, the Attorney-General, agreed to: who introduced the bill, is authorized by That the House do proceed on Wednesday, section 178 (2) to furnish a copy of the 29 August, 1973, at 4.30 p.m., to Government report to the company under investigation. House and there, at 4.45 p.m., present to the Governor the Address in Reply to the Speech This he has done in relation to Australian His Excellency bad been pleased to make to Factors Limited and Mineral Securities both Houses of Parliament on opening the Australia Limited so that the receiver and Session. administrator in the first case, and the House adjourned, on motion by the liquidator in the second, have been placed Hon. J. B. M. Fuller, at 6.51 p.m. in a position to determine whether civil proceedings should be brought in the in­ terests of shareholders and/ or creditors. Secondily, the Attorney-General is author­ ized by section 176 (5) to make a copy of the transcript of evidence taken by an in­ spector available to a legal practitioner who satisfies him that he is acting for a person jD:cgi~.zila±iu:c J\zz:cmhl1:J who is conducting or is, in good faith, con­ Tuesday, 28 August, 1973 templating legal proceedings in respect of the affairs of the investigated company. Finally, if he is of the opinion that pro­ Relocation of Central Mapping Authority (Petition)­ ceedings ought, in the public interest, to be Questions without Notice-Death of Sir George Gray, Under Secretary,_ Premier's Department7 brought by a company which has been Transport Finances (Ad]oumment)--General BUSI­ investigated, for the recovery of damages ness (Australian Rights and Freedoms)-Local Government (Elections) Al)lendment Bill (~econd in respect of fraud, misfeasance or other reading)-Travel Agents Bi!l (second readmg)-;­ Fruit-Growing Reconstruction Agreement Bill misconduct in connection with the company (second reading)--Cattle Compensation (Amend­ ment) Bill (second reading)-Printing ~o~ttee or for the recovery of property of the com­ -Adjournment (Bushfires at Macquane F1elds; pany he may himself in pursuance of sec­ Second Airport for Sydney; lllawarra Develop­ tion 178 (9) institute proceedings in the ment)-Printed Question and Answer. name of the company. Thus the rights of all interested parties are protected and the only people left guessing are gossip mongers Mr SPEAKER (THE HoN. SIR KEVIN and those who would hang others on hear­ ELLIS) took the chair at 2.30 p.m. say evidence and an investigator's conclu­ Mr SPEAKER offered the Prayer. sions after a trial in the columns of the daily press. The Leader of the Opposition talked about delays in investigations. I note that the Attorney-General expects an interim RELOCATION OF CENTRAL MAPPING report soon on the Barton group of com­ AUTHORITY panies, which investigation started some four PETITION and a half months ago. I remind the Leader of the Opposition that when this Govern­ Mr HILLS presented a petition from ment came to office in 1965 the investiga­ some employees of the Central Mapping tion then in train into the Latec group had Authority praying that the Legislative As­ been proceeding since 1961-some five sembly will take definite measures to con­ years. trol land values in the Bathurst-Orange Motion agreed to. area and to ensure that all public servants and their families who are involved will be The PRESIDENT: I have ascertained it to informed of all the conditions and allow­ be the pleasure of the Governor to receive at State Government House on Wednesday, ances applicable before they are asked to 29th August, 1973, at 4.45 p.m., the Ad­ participate in the relocation to Bathurst. dress in Reply to His Excellency's Speech. Petition received on motion by Mr Hills.