1921. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2579
George Lawrence Thoma . Hunter J. Norton. Passed ass-istant paymaster tcith mnk of lieutenant. Sumuel Lawrence Bates. Walter E. Scott. Cyrus D. Bishop. John Charles Poshepny. John H. Skillman. MABI ~ CORPS. Gordon Samuel Bower. Maurice M. Smith. Captain. Edward 1\Iixon. John 1\I. Speissegger. Henry Chilton 1\IcGinnis. Leslie A. 'Villiams. Patrick W. Guilfoyle. F rank J oseph 1\Ianley. George F. Yo ran. Fi1·st lie'lttenant. Harry Franris Hake. Charles Frederick House. Jud on H. Fitzgerald. .Julius Joseph Miffitt. Louis Weigle Crane. Second lieutenants. Harry Gillespie Kinnard. Calvin William Schaeffer. James l\1. White. Percival Francis Patten. Benjamin Oliver Kilroy. Gerald C. Thomas. Michael Albert Sprengel. Letcher Pittman. 'Villiam Edwin l\lcCain. Frank Humbeutel. Golden Fletcher Davis. Robert Hill Whitaker. Grandison James Tyler. "\Villiam Starling Cooper. SENATE. Theodore Martin Stock. Charles Ernest Leavitt. Stamford Grey Chapman. Archie Bawlin 1\IcKay. WEDNESDAY, J1.ene 15, 19~1. ·william Elliott. Harrison \Villiam Mc- Joseph Edward Ford. Grath. (Legislati'Ve day ot Mo-nday, Jttne 13, 1921.) .Tames Edward Hunt. Charles Thomns Flannery. The Senate met nt 11 o'clock a. m., on the expiration of the Hugh John McManu ·. Josephus Maximilian Lie- recess. 'Villiam Edward Woods. ber. l\Ir. SMOOT. Mr. President, I suggest the absence of a Alexander Wolseley Urqu- Carl Louis Biery. quorum. hart. Harry Carl l\fechtoldt. The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will call the rolL Leo .Adelbert Ketterer. Harry Herbert Hines. The reading clerk called the roll, and the following Senators John Jo. eph Carroll. Charles ·welford Fox. answered to theil· names : Edward. Hammel Hulit. Everett 'Van·en Brown. Ball Fl'elinghuysen McCumber Spencer Nicholru; Alexander Brown. Edwin Henry Bradley. Borah Hale McKinley Sutherland Brous ard Harreld McLean Swanson John \Vesley Overand . William Hem·y Phillips. Bursum Harris McNary Trammell Howard. Niles Hill. Percy Briggs. Calder Harrison Nelson Underwood Charles Harold Convers:.. John Barnette Cattermole. Capper Heflin Norris Walsh, Mass. Caraway J'olmson Poindexter Warren Leo Vincent Flavell. John Lawrence Herbert Curtis .Tones, Wash. Sheppard Watson, Ga. Cornelius Adam Brinkmann. Clarholm. Dial Kendrick Shortridge Watson, Ind. Albert \Vashington Eldred. Lamar Lee. Dillingham Kenyon Smith Wolcott Charle Alexander Cameron 'George Harold Crofut. Fernald Knox Smoot Jacob Holmes Kyger. Andrew Colon Shiver. The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. CURTIS in the chair). Joseph Thomas Lareau. Claude Randolph Clerk. Forty-three Senators having answered to their names, a quorum Marvin McCray. Matthew Thornton Betton. not being present, the Secretary will call the roll of absentees. Paul K. Coons. Theodore Winans Smith The reading clerk called the names of the absent Senators, Roy Leo Koester. Runyon. ami l\Ir. LA FOLLETTE and l\Ir. WADS WORTH answered to their James Herbert Stevens. John Ball. names when ea.llecl. George Scratchley. Joseph Gu ·ta vus Hag- Mr. CURTIS. I have been requested to announce the .ab· Ellsworth Foraker Sparks. strom. sence of the junior Senator from Ohio [Mr. WILLis], the senior Charles Brandon Forrest. Carl William Seitz. Senator from Colorado [1\Ir. PHIPPS], and the junior Seuator John Patrick Killeen. Cyrus Baker Kitchen. from Colorado [Mr. NICHOLSON], who are detained on official William George Conrad. Edward Winslow Hawkes. business. Karl Stacy Farnum. Earl Francis Codding. Mr. LEL"'ffiOOT, l\Ir. SIMMONs, Mr. liiTcHCOCK, Mr. LoDGE, 1\lr. Orville Franklin Byrd. Charles Streater Bailey. OVERMAN, l\fr. WALSH of Montana, l\fr. STERLING, Mr. WILLIAMS, Louis Alford Puckett. Joseph Patrick Burke. l\Ir. GERRY, Mr. OnniE, l\Ir. JoNES of New Mexico, Mr. ELKus, Lester Bernard Karelle. Clark Howell Miley. l\Ir. NEw, Mr. LA.nn, 1\fr. CuLBERSON, and l\Ir. ERNST entered the Ellory Francis Carr. Guy J ohp. Cheatham. Chamber and answered to their names. James Daniel G. Wognum. Walter William Mahany. Mr. UNDER"'OOD. I have been requested to announce·that Charles Harrison Gillilan. John Henry Davis. the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. 1\fcKEr.LAR] is absent on offi· Robert Von Ritter. Stephen Reuben Edson. cial business. Daniel Leo 1\fcCarthy. John Enos Wood. The VICE PRESIDENT. Sixtyo{)ne Senators llanng an. Leon Dancer. Matthias Anthony Roggen- swered to their names, a quorum is present. Charles Henry Ritt. kamp. 1\IESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE-ENlWLLED BILL SIGNED. Harry Alfred 1\Iiller. Francis Merle WaltiTon. A message from the House of Representatives, by 1\Ir. Ove-r· Joseph William Cavanagh. Harold Arthur Rigby. hue, its enrolling clerk, announced that the Speaker of the Harvey Rector Dye. Edwin Arnold Eddigorde. House had signed the enrolled bill (H. R. 6300) making appro Verny Carroll. Russell Hardy Sullivan. priations to supply deficiencies in appropriations for the fiscal Charles 1\fusil. Harvey El~y 'Vathen. year ending June 30, 192:t,, and prior fiscal years, and for other Charles Schaaf. William En.rl Tripp. purposes, and it was thereupon signed by the Vice Pre ident. Forrest Ivanhoe. Lawrence Jefferson Webb. Ray Erastus Snedaker. Henry Hugh Karp. PETITIONS .AND MEMORIALS. Ray \Vadley Byrns. George Henry Williams. l\1r. RA.RRIS presented a resolution of the Board of Com· George Washington Davis. Joseph Arthur Hesse. missioners of Roads and Revenues of Sumter County, Ga., William Walter Wise. Richard August Vollbrecht. favoring the enactment of legislation to aid the States in the Guild B.ruda. Samuel Ellsworth McCarty. construction of rural post roads. which was refer1·ed to the Don l\ferrill Robinson. George Walter Armstrong. Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads. Alvin Steward Reid. Robert F. Batchelder. Mr. LODGE presented a resolution adopted at a meeting held Robert Harper Lenson. Joseph E. Bolt. May 10, 1921, of the Boston (Mass.) Marine Society, favoring Robert Ralston Blaisdell. James Chapman. the repeal of the so-called La Follette Shipping Act, which was Edward Francis Ney. Errett R. Feeney. referred to. the Committee on Commerce. ''orth B. Beachman. Francis D. Humphrey. He also presented. a resolution adopted at the annual meeting Carl J. Buck. William F. Jones. of the Council of the Massachusetts Medical Society, opposing Thomas P. Bryam. Willard C. Moore. the enactment of the so-called Sheppard-Towtler maternity aid Charles R. Flanigan. Christian P. Schwarz. bill, which was referTed to the Committee on Education and Charles l\1. Garrison. John N. Silke. Labor. Herman F. Gingrich. Edmund T. Stewart. He also presented resolutions of the First Congregational So Morris R. Grady. Purvey B. Summey. ciety of Leominster ; the First Baptist Church of Beverly ; the Webster Gross. .Arthur L. Walters. Wollaston Congregational Church, of Quincy; the Starrett Me~ Walter Guerry. Richard L. Whittington morial Methodist Church, of Athol; the First Congregational James M. 1\IcComb. Chm·ch of Wobu1·n; the Grace Methodist Episcopal Church. 2580 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JuNE 15,'
Cambridge ; the Fir t l\Iethodist Episcopal Church, l\felrose; the REPORTS OF COMMITTEE ON TERRITORIES AND INSULAR POSSESSIONS. Federated. Church of Millbury; the Congregational Church of Mr. NEW, from the Committee on Territories and Insulat• Southampton; the First Parish Church of Ashby; the Congrega Possessions, to which were referred the following bills, reported tional Church of Christ, Leominster; the First Baptist Church them se-yerally without amendment and submitted reports of Hyde Park; the First Baptist Church a.f Worcester; Trinity thereon: . Church, Bo ton; the Methodist Episcopal Church of No~·th A bill (S. 2062) granting a franchise for the purpose of Adams; the Free Christian Church of Andover; the Boylston manufacturing and supplying gas and electric current in the Congregational Church, Boston; Grace Church, of. Lawrence; districts of Wailuku and Makawao, county of 1\Iaui, Territory Trinity Church, of Concord; the Second Congregational Church of Hawaii (Rept. No. 115); of Chicopee Falls; Bulfinch Place Church, of Boston; the Pros A bill ( S. 2063) to authorize and provide for the manufac pect Congregational Church, of Cambridge; the First Congrega ture, maintenance, distribution, and supply of electric light and tional Church of Nantucket; the South Acton Congregational power within the district of Hamakua, on the island of Hawaii, Church, of South Acton; the l\lethodist Episcopal Church of Territory of Hawaii (Rept. No. 116); Medford; the Western Massachusetts District of the Int~rna A bill ( S. 2064) to authorize and provide for the manufac tional New Thought Alliance; St. Paul's Church, of Holyoke i ture, maintenance, distribution, and supply of electric current the Church of Christ, Granby; the Orthodox Congregational for light and power within Kapaa and Waipouli, in the district Church of Mansfield; the Belleville Congregational Church, New of Kawaihau, on the island and county of Kauai, Territory of buryport; the Old Cambridge Baptist Church, Cambridge; the Hawaii (Rept. No. 117); Union Congregational" Church, of Boston; the Plympton Congre A bill (S. 2065) to authorize and provide for the marrufac gational Church, of Plympton; St. Andrew's Protestant Episco ture, maintenance, distribution, and supply of electric current pal Church, Ludlow; the Congregational Church of Northboro; for light and power within the district of Hana, on the island the Riverside Memorial Church, of Haverhill; First Church of of 1\Iaui, Territory of Hawaii (Rept. No. 118) ; Christ, Lynn; First Congregational Church, Royalston; First Baptist Church of Holden ; the Congregational Church of Hat A ·bill (S. 2066) to authorize and provide for the manufac field; the Salem QuarterJy Meeting of Friends, of Boston; !he ture, maintenance, distribution, and supply of electric current Central Congregational Church, Newburyport; the. congregatiOn for light and power within the districts of North and South Hilo and Puna, in the county of Hawaii, Territory of Hawaii of Unity Church, Pittsfield ; the First Methodist Church, Ma (Rept. No. 119) ; and rion; the First Church of Rochester; the Union Evangelical Church, of Three Rivers; the Church of the Pilgrimage, Plym A bill (S. 2067) to ratify, approve, and confirm an act duly outh; the Neighborhood Center and Immanuel Community, enacted by the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii entitled Pittsfield; the Winthrop Congregational Church, Holbrook; the "An act to amend an act entitled 'An act to aut"10rize and pro West Parish Church, of Andover; the Trinity Methodist Epis vide for the construction, maintenance, and operation of a street copal Church, of Springfield; the Evangelical Congregational railway or railways in the district of Honolulu, island of Church, of Barre ; the Rehoboth Congregatio.nal Church, Re Oahu,' enacted by the Legislature of the Republic of Hawaii hoboth; the Park Avenue Congregational Church, Arlington July 7, 1898, and granting a franchise to the Honolulu Rapid Heights; the First, Parish and Congregational Society, of Ash Transit & Land Co. to operate a stTeet railway in the district burnham ; the Second Congregational Church of Westfield ; the of Honolulu, providing for the operatiQn of the ·same, and pro Union Church, of Waban; the First Methodist Episcopal Church viding for the purchase of the same by the city and county of of Hyde Park; the Portland Street Baptist Church, of Haver Honolulu " ; to the Committee on Territories and Insular Pos hill· the Central Congregational Church, of Dorchester; the sessions (Rept. No. 120). Congregational Church of Wakefield; the Congregational Church BILLS INTRODUCED. of Northbridge Center; the First Congregational Church of Bills were introduced, read the first time, and, by unanimous Jamaica Plain; the Congregational Church of Auburndale; the consent, the second time, and referred as follows: Fir t .Congregational Church of Malden; the Grace Church, of By Mr. BAI.. L: Medford; the Village Congregational Church, of Whitinsville; A bill ( S. 2083) to regulate the practice of undertaking and the Central Congregational Church, of Worcester; and the embalming ]n the District of Columbia, and to safeguard the Second Baptist Church of Holyoke, all in the State of Massa public health; to the Committee on the District of Columbia. chusetts, praying for the calling of an international disarma By Mr. McNARY: ment conference by the President, which were referred to the A bill (S. 2084) making appropriations for the prevention Committee on Foreign Relations. of loss of timber from insect infestations on reserved and un l\fr. LADD presented a telegram transmitting a resolution reserved public lant~s in Oregon and California, and for other adopted by the forty-first annual convention of the Ameri~an purposes; to the Committee on Appropriations. Federation of Labor, at Denver, Colo., June 14, 1921, favonng By Mr. PENROSE: , a senatorial investigation of mining conditions in Mingo County, A bill ( S. 2085) for the relief of Emmett l\1. Lowery ; to the W. Va., which was ordered to lie on the table. Committee on Military Affairs. · He also presented a telegram in the nature of a memorial of By Mr. SPENCER: the Rogers Lumber Co., of Minot, N. Dak., remonstrating against A bill ( S. 2086) for the relief of August H. Radke ; to the the placing of any tariff duty on lumber, which was referred Committee on Claims. to the Committee on Finance. A bill (S. 2087) granting a pension to Mary A. l\lanuel; to He also presented a resolution of the pastor and congrega the Committee on Pensions. tion of the First Presbyterian Church of Jamestown, N. Dak., By 1\Ir. WADSWORTH: favoring the calling of an international disarmament confer A bill ( S. 2088) for the relief of Regina Schorr ; to the ence, which was referred to the Committee on Foreign Rela Committee on Claims. tions. By Mr. NELSON: Mr. CAPPER presented a telegram in the nature of a peti A bill (S. 2089) authorizing the appointrir~nt of an additional tion of the executive committee of the Farmers Union of Wash judge for the district of Minnesota; to the Committee on the ington and Northern Idaho, praying for the enactment of legis Jujliciary. lation to enlarge the Federal Reserve Board so as to include the V AMENDMENTS TO MEAT PACKING BILL. Secretary of Agriculture and Secretary of Commerce, which 1\!r. NORRIS submitted two amendments intended to be pro was referred to the Committee on Banking and Currency. posed by him to the bill (H. R. 6320) to regulate interstate and He also pre ented eight resolutions of sundry citizens of St. foreign commerce in live stock, live-stock products, dairy pro 192t. OON ·GRESSIONAL R.EOORD-SENATE. 2581 PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL. legislation. ·Chambers ·of •commerce of nearly .evecy ·State in A message from the President of the United States, by Mr. the Union ·and .of many ·cities in the different .S.tates !hav-e offered L-atta, one of his secretaTies, rannounced :tbat the President Jlad their ,prot-est. I have read vezy .carefully ·much ,of .tbe eudenc.e on the 14th instant approyed and -signed the •bill ( S. 86) to which JJ.as been :submitted-and let me say, Senatm·s, that it emb.r.aces ·thou-sands .of J)ages, almos.t--:-bY ·those who have .a_p amend ·the act appl'O~d December '23, 1913, known as the Fed peared before the committee, but I have yet to learr~ uf 1tilY e-ral reserv-e act. pressing demand from :the .farmers .of the ' eoun.~y and ..fl1run the THE MEAT-PACKING 11\lJUSTRY. stock raisers ·nf the country or ;from .any partictilar "'Source for Tile Senate, as in Committee of .the Whole, ·resumed the ·COn this legislation. ·sideration of the .bill {H. .R. 6320) to iregul.ate .interstate ,and Wie hear -much illO\~adays in the Congress of the United foreign commerce ,in .live stock, live-·stock products, Clairy prod Stat-es about ihe farmers, ·and -many of us have ibleediDg hearts ucts, poultry, poult.l:y '})no ducts, ;and .eggs, .and for other purposes. :f.or Tthe po.or faTmer; but let ·me say, Mr. tPr:esid-ent, that this The VICE PRmiD~TT. '.r.he .question ,i£ .on ~eeing to the dass of :legislation 'has cost the .f.a:rmers ·Of this ·c:ountry_, the amendment of the ·Committee on Agricultuue .and ~Forestry .as · business "interests~ .:and the troq>ayer.s of the -country more than amended. .did ·fhe European war-; :and .d:f !Senato-rs will give me their 1\lr. UNDERWOOD. 1\.Ir. :P.cesident, a-s that amendment came attentian for i:lle ..next tfew ..hours. I am ~oin.g to prove to :.1J1rem .up -yesterday, ana some ·of ns are not full~ infomned as to 1t, I the exacl truth ,.of :my ·statement. ns'k that file -secretazy :again state it. We have had .commissions d'n :this :c.ountriV fur ~.abmrt '3.5 -yem:s. The 'V:LCE PRESIDENT. 'The committee -.amendment ..as :The gp-eat mp.lift; ..xnd ;refro."lllation on the ;paxt t>f the reformers amended ·Will he Btated. began ·-s:omething like a mhi::rd of .a century ago. We ha'Ve had The 'READING 1(Jr;ERK. .The •.commlttoo amendment is to :strike reformers ·\Who :hav-e 1I1Iderta1r.en to .reform almost ever:ythlng., .o:at all after the .enacting clause .ef fhe ibm .and to 'ins.ett-- :tnclndin_g nur mor-als ·and ;on:r :microbes. This -morning '[ was 1\lr . .UNDERWOOD. Is Jtbat -the len.tire .committee amend -surprised ·en opening :my :mail :to fuld ;a lletter lnquiri·ng now ment? many :fimes :per mem ·;r :toPlc :a l>lfth, ·how 'I :cleaned nlY teeth, Tlle 'VICE .PRESIDENT. Jt is -fue .:entire .committee a;mend- Whether Qlm·izont.ally or J>.~ndie:ul.arly, ana ·whether ·1 was ment. :go1ng to snp]JOTt 1t:he ,cS:mith-Tow;ner bill. ·n bas ;gotten .flO, :Sen l\1r. UNDERWOOD- Then, if .no Senator ,desires to sp.eak tDil ·ator-s, that .i r6u not • Congress legislati>e reference s~~·yic~, w}?.ich,. by the way, I 1\Ir. FERNALD. Let me answer the Senator from Nebraska. ha>e found to be YeL'Y correct, aud . in any state~ents that I This opens up a -rery large question, and I can see where I am ma~· make yon will find the figures · taken. ej.tber fro¢ theni or likely to be on this floor for a long time. This question of capital from Poor's l\1annal or from tb~ , reJio.rt~ . o~ the Interstate stock is not gene1~ally understood by a great many of the t)eople Commerce Commission. This statement was compiled from of this country. I know concerns that ha>e a capital stock of the Treasury Department's digest ·of . appropriatio~:u~ .; for tl!e only $20,000 that have in>ested capital of hundreds of thou_. support of the GoYernment of the · uni~ed States, with the excep sands of dollars. That represents nothing. A man might make tion of the two years indicated, 1897 and 1898! That ~as l:efer 33 per cent on his capital stock and yet not make 2 per cent on ence to the Interstate Commerce Commission. . . his in-rested capital. That represents nothing. That matter has The first appropriation for the Federal Trade Commission been thrashed out here many times before. about which I am able to get any· information w_as in 19~6. · Mr. NORRIS. Does not the Senator know that in tllis partic The appropriation was $373,333.37. In 1917 the appropri_ation ular case it represented the net worth of the concern, and that for that commission was $444,080 ; in 1918, $822;920; in 1919, a good deal of it was capital which had been contributed ty $1,677,540; in 1920, $1,205,000; and in 1921, $955,000. · - - the people, and that the 33 per cent was reckoned on that? There has been an increase from year to year, a doubling in 1\Ir. FERNALD. In answer to the distinguished Senator from some cases, but usually an increase of about $100,000 to Nebraska let me say that I know that the packers of this $500,000; and the number of employees has been ·increased country did not make one-half what the. Government permitted from five, the first membership, to 418-always enlarging the them to make during the war. I think that is a very fair. scope of their activities, always coming to Congress and pre answer to that question. If we undertook to discuss this capital senting some reason why they should have more employees and stock and invested capital proposition, it would take more time why they should enter into additional lin~s of acti>ity. than I have between now and to-morrow noon. I was talking 1\Ir. HARRIS. Mr. President-- · .. about this condensed milk company, and what the Federal Trade Mr. FERNALD. I yield to the Senator from Georgia. Commission did for it, and what they are now doing for it; and Mr. HARRIS. I am sure the Senator is not familiar with the reason the bt:siness men of this country are so much op the work done by the Federal Trade· Commission, or he· would posed to Government control. not make the statement he has just made. I have the highest I know something about the Federal Trade Commission. I regard for the distinguished Senator from Maine, and I know happened to be president of the largest industrial busines in he would not intentionally do an injustice to anyone. . this country at the time the commission was created. I was During the war, in some of the years that the Senator· has for the commission. I felt that H might do a great service to mentioned about the appropriations being so large, the Federal the business men of this country. I wanted new fields opened Trade Commission did all the cost-accounting work of the up in South America and New Zealand and ot11er foreign Go-rernment. All the steel, copper, manufactured goods prices, countries for American products, and I felt through this in and all the prices of everything else which the Governnient pur: strumentality we might possibly do that. · I knew there were chased, amounting to billions of dollars during the war:·were a great many small concerns doing that particular line of determined by the cost of production that the Federal. Trade business which were unable to present their wares in foreign Commission found. Those cost figures were used in the pur countries, but by comlfination of these small packers we might chase of these things. The Federal Trade Commission .handled be able to establish agencies in those countries, and I looked the distribution, cost, and price of coal until the Fuel A~inis forwat·d to great results from the acti>ities of the Federal tration was created, and they did a great many other things not Trade Commission. in the line of their regular duties, such as· the enforcement of Just as soon as they got into action they failed to act as an the trading with the enemy act relating topatents, and so forth. adviser, and you can not get a bit of advice from them now as 1\lr. FERNALD. Yes; I am quite· familiar with their . '~ork. to any business proposition. They became prosecutors of the I ha>e had more or less to do with that. · I have -risited the business men. -They have placed hardships in their way and commission on several and divers oc'casions, and for many. rea harassed and heckled them and made it so hard to do business sons. I regret that my old friend the ex-Senator· from 1\~~TY that there is scarcely n business man in this country who favors land, 1\lr. Smith, is not present to help me answer the question any kind of Go>ernment regulation. The activities of the of the distinguished Senator from Georgia. He, with the pres Federal Trade Commission and the expenses of that commis ent Senator from l\Iaryland [1\Ir: FRANCE] has on several,!>cc_a sion are what have brought this bill into contempt more than sions called on the Federal Trade Commission with me, and I anything else. should be glad if they were present; but, inasmuch as they are 1\Ir. HARRIS. Under the law the Federal Trade Commission not, I am not going into that matter. I am ju.st going to·read has no right to license business and tell business men in ad a letter here. I have a great many letters; but I am going 'to vance what they can do and what they shall not do. read this one because this compap.y is doing business in about l\fr. FERNALD. This letter will explain that exactly. That 8 or 10 States. It is a -rery well -knmvri company, ·and I want is just what I am complaining about. That is just the reasori to show the activity of the Federal Tr'ade Commission:· I be that I find fault with the Federal Trade Commission. It is lieve the Senate is desirous· of. the information that is con their activity and their line of procedure to which I object, and tained in this letter, and I am sure the people of this country I am going to take up further another commission that has cost are quite interested. . - , - ' · · a great deal 'more than this. I knew something about this case, and I asked. the president 1\Ir. JOJ\"ES of New Mexico. Ur. President, I have been of this company to call on me, which he did recently. -He is not very much interested in what the Senator has said,-and I have one of the Big Five packers, but be is a very large operator in been very much interested in the acti>ities of the Federal Trade condensed milk, an item which was perhaps_~f more benefit to Commission. It seems to me the Senator is making rather a this country during the war than. any other qne .particular broad indictment of the Federal Trade Commission. He is article; and while we make no <;laim that the packers. did any~ criticizing its work as a whole, and it seems to me that he ought thing more than their honest duty,- their p_atrioti~, loyal duty to be a little more specific in the references he has made. Of to this country, I want to say that i.f it. had ,I;IQt _~een for the course, I do not mean to criticize the Senator at all for his ob Big Five packers we would not have been able to feed our ser>ations, and believing as he does, he was doubtless justified solqiers overseas. One comp'an'y shi_p:Q.ed 25.~ .c~rl~ads of b~ef in saying what he did. But, as I understand it, the Federal during the war. They were called upon to furnish a thousand Trade Commission has as one of its principal functions the duty · cars a week, and more than 7~1 000,000 pomi'ds 'of· meat were of seeing that there is no unfair competition in the country. furnished by one of the great va:ckers. I should like to have the Senator point out something which Mr. NORRIS. 1\Ir. President--· the Federal Trade Commission has done along that line which 1\Ir. FERNALD. In just a moment I will yield to the Sen it ought not to have done. • ator. I do not say that that is any reason why they ought not Mr. FERNALD. I have the evidence right in my hand, Sena to come under the generall~w . . They were doing no more than tor, and if permitted to read it, I think I, just a layman, will was their duty as everybody . undertook t_o . do it in that p~riod. proYe to the Senator, a good lawyer, that what I state is abso 1\Ir. NORRIS. 'Voald the Senator, have any .objection to lutely true. stating which one of the pa~kers that was? 1\Ir. JONES of New Mexico. I am sure the information will 1\fr. FERNALD. As I recall, it was Swift-either Swift or be enlightening, and I shall be glad to hear it. Armour. . · · ' · ' 1\lr. FERNALD. This letter ·is from the president of the 1\Ir. NORRIS. Does the Senator kn·o~ . that· m' doing ·that Helvetia l\Iilk Condensing Co., who haye canneries in eight or Swift & Co., on a capitalization a .great. p'art .of . which· was nine States. I asked the president of that com})any to write furnished by the consumers of meat, made a profit of 33 per this letter, because his complaint was. quite iii line with hun.: cent? · · · ·- -- dreds of other complaints I have had from other business LXJ--163 2584 CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-SEN.... l\.TE. JTYNE 15, men of the country, and it is the unwarranted interference the :Mr. SUDIONS. Unless there is a trust, a monopoly, which Trade Commi sion are auilty of to which I want to call the takes in all the producers of this particular product, why would attention of the Senator from New 1\Iexico, and which has the reduction in the prices of this Helvetia Co. embarra the brought forth this criticism. This letter happens to be from sellers of this product, unless that decline took place all alon(Y' ~lissouri, and "i. addressed to me. the line, and. included all the producers of that product? I~ I have known this gentleman for very many years as a promi ?ther words, .1s not. the letter which the Senator is reading in nent and honorable bu iness man, like most of the business men Itself concltts1ve evidence that this product which he is talkin..., of this country. They are not all scoundrels, they are not all about is a monopolized product? 0 ctooks, and wherever you :find one who is, I am just as anxious l\fr. FERNALD. No. If the Senator will permit me I want as any man in this country to send him to the penitentiary. to expla.in to him the practice of the trade. ' The letter reads: Mr. Sll\IMONS. I just wanted the information about that "HELVETIA .MILK Co DENSING Co., point. "St. Louis, Mo., June 7, 1921. l\fr. li'ERNALD. I know the Senator is Ul1:Yious to have the ~· Hon. B. l\1. FERNALD, . correct information, and I 5hould be very glad to give it to him, "Senate Office Building, Washington, D. 0. because I think I understand this situation, and the practices "DEAR SENATOR FERNALD: Following my talk with you in and methods of the business along these lines. 1Yu hington last week on the subject of the Federal Trade Com· First of all, let me say to the Senator that oftentimes, and mission, I have given some thought to the subject, and still have right now, packers of canned go'Jus and conden ed milk go out the feeling which I expressed to ·you at the time of our confer and make a price on their goods. I will cite my own business, ence; that is, that it is difficult to discuss the functioning of because I know about that, and I lmow what has been the the Federal Trade Commi sion without seeming to scold. practice and habit in the canning trade. " I think the idea of the commission as it was originally con Mr. Sll\1l\10NS. They all make the same price? ceived met generally with some approval on the part of business 1\fr. FERNALD. No. We make our price, for instance, ou our men. The whole situation under which business interests had brands. I go to you and say, "Senator, our price on corn this to proceed at their peril with reference to antitrust legislation year is going to be $1.30." You say to me, "The prices of all was a difficult one." kinds of goods are declining. I do not care to buy goods at that LawyerS can hardly understand or appreciate the troubles figure. If I knew there was to be no decline, I might place an which come to the busine s man who is not familiar with legis order for my usual quantity Of a thou and ca es a rear." lation or with law. The letter continues: Later on you write me and say, "I am going to senu my " There was a very general Wea that the Federal Trade Com salesmen out. I would like to offer that brand I have u ed for mission would give some assistance to people who wanted to keep many years. If I can be assured that the price will not be any within the law and yet can-y on their business so as to best lower on this, you can book my order for a thousand cases." sene the public, which is, after all, the best measure of how I write back to you and say, " I will book your order for a business can best serve its own interests. thou and cases of corn at $1.30 per thousand. If before the e " That hope doesn't seem to have been realized. The Federal goods are delivered to you we lower our own price on that Trade Commission, I understand, has steadfastly refused to brand, you shall have the advantage of that price. If we drop allow itself to act in any advisory capacity. It has taken the our own price on this particular brand of goods which you position with regard to its activities that business men must are buying 10 cents a dozen or 20 cents a dozen, you hall have proceed at their peril. It has aggravated rather than improved the ndvantage of that decline." the situation, in that it has undertaken to exercise a more gen Then you are willing to purchase. eral regulation than any statutory provision prior to the creation .Mr. Sll\IMONS. I can understand how that might be a of the Federal Trade Commission contemplated. It has con proper arrangement. tended that under section 5 the Federal Trade Commission has Mr. FERNALD. That is all there is to this case. the power to say that any activity by business concerns con Mr. SIMMONS. If the agreement was, "- If the wholesale stitutes an unfair method of competition. This position bas price or the manufacturer's price of this article shall decline, been several times denied by United States circuit courts of then we guarantee you the investment," it might be all right; appeal, and in the case of, I think, Federal Trade Commission but when it does not include the manufacturer's selling price, 1-'. Gratz, the Supreme Court of the United States denied this or the wholesale selling price, of all the manufacturers, but the measure of authority to the commission. contract only provides against a decline by one particular pro " It eems, however, rather slow to discard the exercise of du.cer When there are hundreds of producers in the country, I such control. In 1918 the commission filed a complaint against do not see how that would help him unless the uniform decline Helvetia l\Iilk Condensing Co., charging it with the practice of took place all through the country. He does not need protec :.1n unfair method of competition, because of the fact that it tion against a decline in your price unless there i a decline in guarantMd its prices to its customers against its own subse the prices of other manufacturers. If he does, then that, to my quent PI'ice decline. mind, establishes a trust in that urticle nnd would imply that "In the evaporated-milk business each packer of evaporated the decline which takes place in your goods also takes place in milk who has an established btand. sold generally in the the goods of all other producer . markets, announced from time to time its selling price. 'rhe 1\fr. FERNALD. Naturally, if other producers or packers Helvetia Co. follows this practice. It publishes prices from made a lower price the jobber would come to me and sas, " I time to time to the jobbing trade and those prices are uniform can buy other brands of goods at a lower price." That might within given territorie to nll jobbers in those territories. The influence me to l·educe my price. But I have no conh·ol over effect of the guaranty is that on goods sold to-day at, let us what other packers shall do. say, $5 per case, the jobber is protected on any stocks he may It has been a common practice that we might induce the have on band if the price of the Helvetia Co. two weeks from jobber to place his order for goods. Let me say that I h ve to-day hould be declined to $4.50 per case. On such stock as been in the packing business, actively engaged, with my money the jobber had in his warehouse on the occasion of such a de invested and all that is in me for 34 years. I wish to bring out a cline we would pay him a rebate of 50 cents per case. fact right now, and I assume that the same fact is true of other " This practice had been under investigation by the Federal packers. In the operation of our cannery there has never been Trude Commis ion for more thnn two years prior to the time the a time in the 34 years, not a single year, that we have not complaint was filed again t thi company. The investigators had ·sold at this time of the year 75 per cent of our goods for the commission had the matter in charge. The nttorneys that we expected to pack in September. This year, up to this for the commi ion and the economists for the commi sion have date, not a single case of our goods has been sold, for the admitted that they had no evidence that the Helvetia Co. had reason that we are on a declining market. Jobbers are wait used this practice in nny way different fi'Om what it had been ing, hoping the price will drop still lower. That is one of the used by all other companie engaged in this line of busine s. It things with which the packer has to contend. If I coulrl was a general practice followed by evei.Jbody packing canned be assured that our goods would be sold this year for co t, milk. The practice had preYailed for more than 30 years." I would be the happiest man, almost, in the United States. 1.\lr. Sil\fMONS. Will the Senator jUst give me a little bit of We have to make our price to the farmers. We have to information in connection with that? place our orde:rs for cans. We have to buy our labels. We l\Ir. FERNALD. Certainly. have to buy and pay for every ingredient that goes into ·the ::.Ur. SIMMONS. Does this company of which the Senator cnns. Yet to-day we do not know what we are going to get for speaks alone sell a particular article, or is it an article manu our goods, nor where they ure going, and pretty soon they will factured by other concerns? be in the cans and have to be paid for, and it i going to take l\lr. FERNALD. Other companies, very many other com a great many million dollars to do that. panies, and they all had the same practice. l\1r. HITCHCOCK. Mr. President-- 1921. CONGRESSION .AL RECORD-SEN .ATE. 2585 1\Ir. FERNALD. I shall be glad to yield to the Senator, if I price guarimty the commission sent out questionnaires to various may be permitted to concluue the reading of the letter. manufacturers. In reply to those questionnaires they received 1\fr. IDTCHCOCK. I should like to get clear in my mind, a number of letters. Those letters were written generally in as I think perhaps other Senators would, what there is about the early part of the year 1916. The complaint against the the Fetleral Trade Commission that prevents the Senator from Hel,etia Co. was filed in December, 1918. The first taking of doing business profitably, and whether he thinks he could testimony, as already noted, was in November, 1919. do it profitably this year if there were no commission in "A number of the concerns wrote letters in 1916 expre sing existence. . themselves as opposed to the practice of guaranteeing prices. Mr. FERNALD. It does not enter into this that I am speak In the trial of the complaint against the Helvetia Co. the com ing of now at all. I will take that up later in a general mission offered a lot of these letters in evidence. In most way. I am just showing by the reading of this letter, if I may instances the companies which had written letters, after fur be permitted to read it, how they are interfering with this ther consideration of the subject, had very much modified their man's business. opinions and had come to conclusions very different from those Mr. HITCHCOCK. The Senator does not claim that the expressed in the letters. The letters generally did not state existence of the Federal Trade Commission now makes it facts, but merely expressed opinions. In one instance the sales impossible for him to do business at a profit this year? manager of one of the companies which had written a letter Mr. FERNALD. No. to the commission in 1916 was subprenaed to testify for the 1\fr. HITCHCOCK. I wonder why the Senator insists that commission in the case against the Helvetia Co. This witness his business is so unprofitable this year? came to Washington and informed the representatives of the Mr. FERNALD. I merely wish to convey the thought that commission that his opinion was very different from what it this is a very inopportune time to place a hardship upon the was when the letter was written in 1916. The consequence was packers of the country. that the witness was not put on the stand. He was permitted Mr. HITCHCOCK. During the existence of the Federal to go home without testifying, but the letter was introduced in Trade Commission the Senator's business has certainly been evidence. I protested and pointed out that the representative prosperous? had been there ready to testify and it was neither fair to that Mr. FERNALD. If the Senator will permit me, I will show company nor the respondent to use a letter more than three by this letter how it does interfere with everybody's business. years old when first-hand competent testimony might have I am sorry not to be able to read it without interruption. been had. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Can the Senator cite any more pros "None of the letters introduced was competent evidence. perous period in the history of the United States than during They were objected to on that ground, but were nevertheless the period covered by the existence of the Federal Trade Com admitted by the examiner into the record. Protest was made mission? against the admission of all of the letters, and all of the com Mr. FERNALD. We have had great prosperity in this coun panies from whom the letters originally came had been per try, not so great as we had before, and I shall take that up mitted to intervene in the case. They were represented by later. I shall show what the railroads have done since we have counsel at the hearing, and counsel offered to produce rep- • had the Interstate Commerce Commission and that this year it resentatives of those companies as witnesses. The record shows has cost the country more than a billion dollars-- this question : " Mr. HITCHCOCK. The Senator is wandering. Now, this is a very important part of the letter: Mr. FERNALD. The Senator is endeavoring to get me far "Mr. NABDIN. Mr. Davies, I would like to ask if you are afield from the question I am endeavoring to discuss. willing to produce your clients here to testify? Mr. IDTCHCOCK. The Senator is discussing the Federal "Mr. DAVIES. Yes; unquestionably." Trade Commission, and I challenge him to point to a more Mr. Davies was counsel for the companies whose letters were prosperous period of business in the United States than the offered in evidence. period covered by the existence of the Federal Trade Commis " I offer this little story as an indication of how completely sion, of which he complains. the commission has become a, prosecuting agency. The attor lUr. FERNALD. If the Senator will permit me to continue neys conducting the case for the commission, the examiners, and the reading of the letter I shall be glad. The reading has been the so-called economists all seem to feel that a case had to be so disconnected that I doubt if the Senator who inquired for established against the respondent in order to justify the filing the information in the beginning can get the connection, but it of the complaint. It is of course possible that employees of has something to do wi tb the Federal Trade Commission. I the commission should fall into this state of mind contrary to hope I may be permitted to finish reading the letter, and then I the feeling of the commission, but it was :...1y observation from am quite willing to be questioned on any subject. I read: an argument on two occasions before the members of the com "The economists and attorneys for the commission have char mission themselves that the attitude of the commission is that acterized the matter as an· economic question and not a legal they must maintain the complaint once it is filed. question." " It does not require legal training or experience to enable That is the very thing I have been speaking about, that if I one to see bow unfortunate the situation is when the body which guarantee my goods and the price of the goods and that if I is to sit in judgment becomes also the prosecutor in the case. It make a decline in them myself the same price will be made to is as if a prosecuting attorney was to pass finally on the inno the jobber who first buys. cence or guilt of the accused. "The taking of testimony in this case began in No\ember, " One other development of this case is, it seems to me, . in 1919." structive on the activity of the commission from the business That is not quite two years ago. man's standpoint. I have already indicated that the commis " It bas been carried on from time to time, the last session sion has had this matter under in\estigation for two and a half having been held in Washington on the 4th and 5th of May, years before the complaint was filed. In presenting its case 1921. Up to date 1,947 pages of testimony have been taken. against the Helvetia Co., the commission offered as a witness The next setting of the case is for the 7th of July, in Washing Dr. Kemper Simpson, who called himself an economist. He was ton, for the taking of further testimony. 26 years of age at the time he gave his testimony. On cross "The methods of the commission in this case involve too examination he gave this testimony: many things to discuss in this letter. I shall give attention " ' Q. What is your age, Dr. Simpson ?-A. Twenty-six. only to two or three points in that connection. "' Q. How long have you been out of college?-A. Since 1917. "Before taking up those points I want to note that it is ma "' Q. Two years?-A. Since June, 1917. terial to inquire whether the Federal Trade Commission is a " ' Q. How long were you in college ?-A. Seven years. prosecuting or investigating body. I do not know what Con "' Q. Prior to going to college, what business were you en gress had in mind in creating the commission as to what its gaged in ?-A. The business of college. functions should be, but I do know that members of the com "' Q. The business of going to college?-A. Yes, sir. mission and attorneys for the commission in 1916 emphasized " 'Q. That is the only business in which you had been en the fact that the commission was an investigating body; that gaged until June, 1917?-A. Yes, sir. the filing of a formal complaint raised no presumption against "' Q. Were you ever connecteu with the condensed milk in- the respondent, but was merely the method by· which the com dustry in any capacity ?-A. No, sir. mission started to make its record in the investigation of the "' Q. With any commercial establishment?-A. No, sir. subject, there having been previously a mere preliminary in " ' Q. With any manufacturing concern ?-A. No, sir. vestigation for the purpose of determining whether a formal "' Q. You had no experience at all in merchandising or manu investigation was advisable. · facturing business ?-A. Do you mean by experience being actu " The present attitude of the commission seems far removed ally on the pay roll of these companies? If you do, I would say from this i~. In the original investigation of the subject of I never had.' . 2586 CON·GRESSI0NAL REOORD-SEi\fATE. JUNE 15, "This witness covered 25 pages on direct ·examination in particular line which he packs he may get more than I do ; but undertaking to testify as an expert on manufacturing and mer this business, first of all, let me say, is a business whe1·e a man chandi-sing methods. He did not hesitate to express positive either succeeds or makes a failure, and usually very quickly. opinions on questions of fact, some of which opinions we1·e con It is one ·of the simplest problems in the -world, that e\ery troverted by direct testimony on points of "fact by 15 experi- Senator on the floor can readily understand. There is nothing enced busine s men. , that appeals to a man -so much as the food which be takes into " This witness stated that he had conducted an investigation his stomach. Three times a day a man goes to the table and of the milk industry and collected data on which his opinions if there is an article on the table which his wife sets b~ore were based. None of the data was offered in evidence. him, something that .is particularly fine, no matter what it is, " The so-called testimony of this witness was utterly worth he asks, " Who packed those goods? " She has already looked leJ s from the standpoint of legal testimony. It was made up at the label and knows who is the packer. The husbana ays, ither of opinion on points on which the 'Witness .had had no "This. is v~ry. fine "-if it is .fine--" whenever you get anything experience what..ever or of statements of fact which were merely more m this hne of goods, get the goods that are !lUCked by thB3 hear ay. On cross-examination an effort was made to get packer, because this is the best thing I have ever eaten." That him to answer a hypothetical question.; that is, to ~ive the makes the demand for that particular line of goods. If it is opinion of an expert based on facts which were actually in very poor, the husband says, "Do not, for heaven's sake, get the record. It took about 30 minutes to get him to answer the any more of that brand of goods"; and the manufacturer of question. lt was _perfectly clear that ·his ans.wer, from the that brand goes out of business very shortly. However after facts stated, would have -to be contrary to opinions which he long years ?~ exp~rience, the housewives af ·this countrY have had formerly a""Pressed, and he was so certain of his opinions become familiar With the nam€s of the packers of v111·ious com tllat he would not _give a eontrru.·y answer, even when it was mollities, the ·name of th.e packer is on every -single can-and in I'e pon e to a hypothetical question. those cans run into the millions and millions, and go into the ·'It requires a reading of this testimony and some analysis millions of homes in this counb.·y-and so the names of the of the case to get a full appreciation of the absurdity of -the packers have become bywords; the_y have become familiar. The attitude of the. e ·employees of the commission-attorney and housewives of the country know the names of the packers as economist. . But the whole story may be summed up in this: well as J know the names of Senators, because they constantly " The commission filed a complaint against us on what they r-ead their names on the cans. called an economic question. No lawyer for the commission, As I have said, if -the packer is a reliable, honest, expert nor for any respondent, has .ever contended that there was _nny packer and p.roduees goods of excellent quality and sells them legal point involved. We l1ave been put to the time and-expense at a iair ,price, his goods become generally known and generally of taking nearly 2,000 pages of testimony, and the end is not wanteo, and h-e builds up a hig business. He may have started yet. No court would ever sustain a finding that unfair eom in a small way; but he requires more goods, gradually expands I>etition had been practiced by any of the concerns engaged builds more canneries, and by and by gets 'to be one of the big in ·packing evaporated milk when all have followed exactly packers. That is how the business of the meat packers has • the arne ,practice in exactly the same way. An investigating become so tremendously large. Within .my time, and within hody approaching the problem in the spirit of fair investigation the memory of other Senators in ·this body, the fathers of some must long since have discovered that the whole -subject .was a of the men w.hose names appear as the Big 'Fh·e packers ,.-ere matter outside of the commission's _jurisdiction, but the em selling sausages from a basket on the streets, but they packed ployees of the commission and the commission itself, having good sausages; they made .sausages that the people wanted· and filed a complaint, now -seem to feel the necessity of finding ~hey could get a good price for them. The packer who beg-an that some wrong has been committed. It seems to 111e that m that small way developed his bnsine s until to-day, perhaps, any unbiased ,p.erson, with any conception of the problems of his name repr~sents one of the Big Five packers of the country. business, must concede that it is intolerable to have business It is a business t~at lends itself to advel't:ising, perhaps, more under the attempted .supervision of a .body which proceeds in than any other busmess. J refer :now to the packing of canned tbe spirit of _pro ecution rather than in the ·s_pirit of investiga goods. Further, it leads either into a big busine or a. I tion, which ob erves no legal rules or legal limitations, which have said, the man gees -out of blisiness very shortly. That ap recognizes none of the limitations of .rules of evidence, and plies to ~very single element of the business. which once having filed a complaint feels that it mustjustify ii remember in the -early days when all of the tin cans in the tt. -former action by finding that wrong has been done. country were made b_y hand. We had to ~mploy ,men to make " I do not know whether ..all of this will be of any use to cnns by hand with a tinker'.s i.rou. I remember ihose day by one of the Senators that this pure-food legislation had thing for the hefilth of the consumers but was a good thing in been opposed by the packers of the country, • and that every the justification of foreign trade. I was not certain whether time any legislation was suggested the packers would show up the Senator was referring to my remarks or not. and oppose it. I want to read something to show that that is Mr. FERNALD. I do not know who made the remarks. I not so. I happened to be present at a meeting of the canners remember that they were made, and have on many occasions of this country, and let me say that some of the packers are been made" to the effect that the packers were opposing all sorts members of the National Canners' Association, Rnd I want of legislation. to prove my statements as I go along. Sometimes, in quoting Mr. HITCHCOCK. There is not any doubt in the world that :figures, where there were millions of dollars I have refrained they opposed the meat-inspection bill, which they now admit is from mentioning the thousands or the hundred , and I want to a good thing, and there is not any doubt in the world that when be correct about this thing. the pure-food legislation was up somebody fought it. These are excerpts from the report of the Annual Convention Mr. WILLIAMS. 1\Ir. President-- of the Western Packers' Canned Goods Association and the 1\fr. FERNALD. I yield to the ·senator from Mississippi. Atlantic State Packers' Association held at Buffalo, New York, Mr. WILLIAMS. I think one of the Senators is referring to February 12-16, 1907, at .which meeting the National Can one thing and the other to another. The meat inspection bill ners' Association was formally _organized. I read from the was one piece of legislation. The pure food bill was another. report on the president's addresses. At the ·time that Mr. Roosevelt sent his message to Congres , The committee to which you referred the president's addresses after having read Sinclair's "Jungle" book, and all that, there That means the addresses of the president of the associa was an immense excitement, and the pacKers very strenuously tion- opposed that meat-inspection proposition, to some extent ju ti Does hereby respectfully make as a partial report the following : :fied by the fact that it came in the shape of an attack upon First. That one of the principal purposes which inspired the for them; but, independently of that, they did oppo e it, and the mation of a national association of packers of pure canned food, which had its inception at Columbus two years ago, namely, the passage of pure food bill was another and a different piece of legislation. a national pure food law, has been accomplished.. That during the Mr. HITCHCOCK. Yes; but, as I recall, the pure food bill consideration by Congress of the pure-food legislation said national also was opposeU. as ociation, particularly through Mr. Frank E. Gorrell, of Bel Air, Md., Mr. FERNALD. That is a mistake. secretary of the executive committee, performed valuable services· in connection with the passage of a law in its present form, and for which Mr. ffiTCHCOCK. It did not go through here without a services the canning indu try should be exceedingly appreciative. :fight. Dr. Wiley raised a storm of pro-test all over the country • • • • * from certain manufacturers, and they fought his program. ADDRESS OF SAMUEL F. HASEROT, OF CLEVELAKD, OHIO, O.' THE SUBJECT Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not remember what attitude· they OF u THE SELLER'S GUARANTY." took upon the pure food act. I remember that they fought the * •) ~ • • • • A year ago, in convention assembled at Atlantic City, you voted meat inspection bill very vigorously for a long time. unanimously in favor of the passage of a national pure food act. Mr. HITCHCOCK. Dr. Wiley was the victim of an out Back up your records of a year ago by coming squarely out in the rageous attack for a long time because he was endeavoring to open with your hand outstretched and presenting not only to the buyer but to the people of this Nation your sellers' guaranty written in provide some governmental protection for the health of the broad, readable, unequivocal terms, so that there can be no question American people. of your pia tform. Mr. FERNALD. I have a very clear recollection of Dr. I want it understood, Senators, that the packers and the Wiley's interest in the pure food bill, and I recall very well canners of this country did not oppose the pure-food legislation, that I was present at this meeting of the Western Packers' As but as I recall-and the present Presiding Officer of the Senate sociation when we decided as an association that some legisla (Mr. LADD in the chair] will bear me out, I believe, in this tion along those lines was needed; and I recollect that we gave statement-they were desirous of pure-food legislation and it our earnest support, and that we sent to Washington a man di They are very short. Here is what he said on June 30, 1906, that now in every city and in every village of the United States wllen the meat insp~ction bill was before the Senate, showing we get our meats from the valleys of the Mississippi and the the attitude of the packers then: · far West where they raise cattle. We can no longer raise · What has been the history of that group of men who run those cattle in New England. Our farms suitable for raising of cattle packing establishments? It has been a history of utter defiance of are being used for other purposes, and we have to depend upon 0 law and of public opinion. l) * But I say, Mr. President, and the people in the West for our meats. I sav it in all seriousness, that those packers in Chicago * * • have· done more to advance socialism and anarchism and unrest and I remember reading recently of that great man who left agitation than all the socialistic agitators who stand to-day between northern lllinois along in 1845, Brigham Young, and who with the oceans. his people crossed the prairies with oxen and with horses and l\1r. President, when the legislation was before the Senate in on foot, and it was months before they reached the State of the matter of railroad rates the meat packers were interested Utah. I thought of the development we have had since that in their refrigerator car~. I know personally that the packers time, just a little before my birth; of how the railroads sprang had one of the most succe;:;sful legislature lobbyists that we up, and that when my father was 10 years old there was not a ha\e ever had come here, from my State, and he stayed here single rod of railroad in the United States. From 1830 to 1887 for weeks while that legislation was pending. we had a most marvelous development. We had men whose 1\Ir. FERNALD. That brings me back to the packers again. minds and careers were centered on that one thing-to de\elott I want to say that I had intended to discuss the matter from an the great >alley of the Mississippi and the far West, even on to economic standpoint rather than from the packers• end. - The California. packers, as I understand, have very little interest in this bill. We had men who could go to the bankers of this country and I have never heard from any one of them or from any repre secure all the money that was necessary for such projects. sentative of theirs; I do not know wbeth-er they want it or not; They could go over to the banks in New York and get all the but I know what these commiss.ions have cost this Government, money that was necessary for the development and building of and I am going to cite you to the figures, so that the people of railroads. the country may know that when you create a commission here That day has passed; that generation of men has gone on. you get it fastened on this Government, and if you make an They ha\e sometimes been spoken of in a very light way; but I appropriation of $1,000 the first year it will amount to $1,000,000 recall the days of James J. Hill and E. H. Harriman, and the in 10 years. Flagler~ clown in the State of the Senator from Florida [1\fr. 1\fr. HITCHCOCK. 1\fr. President, will the Senator, when FLETCHER], when they connected your two coasts, and of the he gi\es the cost to the Government of these commissions, gi\e wonderful develnpment of this country which came about frqm at the same time some brief recapitulation of what they have the railroad building. It was the most marTelous in the his done? tory of the world. Nothing like it had ever occurred in this 1\fr. FERL~ALD. I will, sir. · I shall be Yery glad to do that cotmtry, and from 1830 to 1865 that great development was when I get to it. going on. l\1r. HITCHCOCK. I understand that in the case of the Fed Now, I want to read some figures which show what has hap~ eral Trade Commission they lut.ve rendered very valuable serv pened. In 1887 we began to think of the gigantic proportions ice; and, if the Senator is so familiar with this matter, he is railroads had attained. People said that unless the railroads the one to lay befo-re the Senate the vast benefit.. The Sena were regulated they would own the whole country, and we tor here a little while ago voted $500,000,000 for a navy. He started in then with the first of our great and expensive com did not think much of economy then. missions. 1\lr. FERNALD. Yes; :!: did. We created the Interstate Commerce Commission, and I want Mr. HITCHCOCK. But now, when it come3 to a commis to read you something about that. Understand, now, I find sion that bas unquestionably rendered very valuable service, he no fault with the personnel of these commissions. I have not talk to us about economy. He Toted for a navy four times as any criticism of the men who have been appointed to the com much money as Congress voted annually before the war, and missions. I have no doubt they are just as good men as could he has done that in spite of the fact that there is a strong pro be found now or ever could be found. But it is impossible to test against it. The Senator voted for a bill appropriating find men not acquainted with a · great industry who can take $500,000,000, and yet when it comes to something less than a bold of it and carry it on successfully. A man who undei'takes million dollars for a valuable commission lle is impressed by to run my business, which I have been 40 years studying in the need of economy. eve1·y detail, would find some little trouble, as much as I would Mr. FERNALD. As I recall, Mr. President, a few years ago in undertaking to deai with a law case, knowing nothing about we found ourselves in need of a larger army and a greater the law. Every man learns his own business, and the success navy. If we bad made greater appropriations previous to- that of that business depends upon its management. time we might have been a little better prepared, and I think Up to 1887 the railroad business of the country had been man the best way to be prepared, so that we may force other (}{)v aged by men who knew something abo-ut railroads. People bad ernments to stop the building of navies and stop the creation confidence in them. The bonds of the railroads could be placed of armies, is to appropriate sufficient money that we may be anywhere and at any time. As I have said, it was felt that the prepared to meet those people if it seems necessai~y. I believe railroads were growing large and gigantic, and the Congress of my attitude, since I have been a Member of the Senate, has the United States created the Interstate Commerce Commis been along the line of economy. I have been chairman of a sion. committee which has had opportunity to expend millions of The figures I am about to quote to the Senate are very im dollars, but not a single appropriation has come out of that portant. The Interstate Commerce Commission was created committee. That is about as good a record as any man may February 4. 1887, and the first appropriation, in 1888, was llaye for economy and the practice of economy in public affairs. $100,000. In 1889 it was $150,000, and a deficiency of $25,000 :Mr. WILLIAl\fS. 1\fr. President, I do not want to interfere wa created, so they had to make a little larger appropriation. "\Yith the .Senator's argument, but he bas been deflected from In 1890 it was $200,000. In l891 it was again $200,000, but in the main line of ills argument and has been talking about some 1892 it was $225,000, and another deficiency of $25,000 was thing else. I want to ask the Senator a question in connec created. In 1893 it was $225,000, with a deficiency again of tion with a remark just made by him. Does the Senator think $15,000. In 1899 it was $250,000. In 1901 it was $265,000. In the wax to persuade another man to disarm is to sca1·e him? 1902 it was $275,000 and a deficiency of $51. In 1903 it was Mr. FERNALD. I think so. $285,000 and a deficiency of $321.50. In 1904 it was $325,000 l\fr. WILLIAMS. I have no~ . found it so in life. I baYe gen and a deficiency of $20,000. In 1905 it was $355,000 and a de erally found that if I scared him he went off and armed himself. ficiency of $15,000. In 1907 it was $456,000 and a deficiency of Mr. FERNALD. The Senator and I agree about a great many $45,000. . . things, and I am sorry if we do not agree on everything. It Then it began to take on some proportions. In 1908 it was does not trouble me at all to be interrupted, and any time any $828,245. In 1909 it had reached a million ; it was $1,223,000 Senator wants to ask a question I shall be very glad to give my and a deficiency of $10,000. In 1910 it was· $1,160,000 and a time. deficiency of $10,000. In 1911 it was $1,361,833.89. We have had a most marvelous development in this country Let Senators tell their farmer friends what economy is being along all lines of business, as everybody knows, in the past practiced in the creating of these commissions. bundred years. It is only about 50 ·years since this packing In 1912 it was $1,815,000. In 1913 it was $1,750,008.83 and business was really establisl;l.ed, and it would be very hard to another deficiency of $10,000. In 1914 it was $1,795,000 and a feed the people of this country now without the packers. I deficiency of $15,000. In 1915 it was $4,075,006.52. In 1916 it remember the day when practically all the butchering was was $5,265,003.88. In 1918 it was $5,467,177.29. In 1919 it done in the little butcher shops in the villages or towns of the was $5,732,40L13. In 1920 it was $4,596,616.03. In 1921 it country. The business has grown to such enormous proportions was $5,442,906.28. \ 2590 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JuNE 15, Th~ cost directly of that commission since its creation has shown to be unnecessary, the farmers and shippers of the been $51,323,313.19. country were saved in that year more than all the Interstate But, Senators, that is a mere bagatelle, a little over fifty Commerce Commission has cost since its creation? millions. ·when they started out it was a very modest, little l\lr. FERNALD. No; I am not going to admit that. I am commission. They had 5 members and 14 employees. To-day going to discuss that question right now. I am not going to they have 2,200 employees, and 1,100 of them have been casting admit anything of the kind, because we are having to settle about the country for eight years undertaking to determine the right now for everything that the Interstate Commerce Com physical value of the railroads at an expense of $18,000 a day, mission was unwilling to grant at that time, because the rail and e"'fery Senator on this floor knows that they are no nearer roads could not afford to grant it. I am going to show to the finding the valuation of the railroads than they were when Senator and to everyone else that since the Interstate Com· they started, and if those same men could live 1,800 years they merce Commission was created it has cost the Government and would not be any nearer than they are now. Tell that, my the people more than the war with Germany. T·hat is a pretty friends, to the farmers of this country and ask them if they broad, bold statement, but I have the figures to back it up right want this Congress to create another commission which will here. '- •i cost them more than $50,000,000, in my judgment, because Mr. HITCHCOCK. 1\Ir. President-- this commissioner and his as ociates would have to traverse 1\lr. FERNALD. Just a -moment. Let me say that the this whole cotmtry outside of Chicago, to govern and regulate figures I am going to furnish to the Senate were taken from every little butcher in every little village of the country. Poor's Manual ·-of Railroads, 1888, the compilations of the Mr. NORRIS. Mr. President, did the Senator give the total? Bureau of Railroad Economics, the statistics of the Interstate 1\fr. FERNALD. Yes; I gave the total. Commerce Commission, and the reports ·of railways to the In Mr. NORRIS. Will the Senator repeat it? I could not terstate Commerce Commission. hear it. I yield now to the Senator from Nebraska. Mr. FERNALD. The tota~ is $51,323,313.19. l\lr. HITCHCOCK. The computation the Senator makes of Mr. NORRIS. The Senator realizes, of course, that that the total appropriations for the Interstate Commerce Commis is not all. Every State is appropriating a lot of money to regu sion since it was organized was something like $52,000,000. late the railroads also. Has the Senator those figures? Mr. FERNALD. Fifty-one million dollars plus. Mr. FERNALD. No; I have not. Mr. HITCHCOCK. That covers a period of something like Mr. NORRIS. The Senator will agree with me that that 34 years. would add to that total a very great deal, perhaps more than Mr. FERNALD. It does. double it? Yet the Senator does not want to abolish the Inter Mr. HITCHCOCK. Does the Senator consider that a large state Commerce Commission? amount? Mr. FERNALD. I did not say that. l\lr. FERNALD. Oh, no; I -do not consider anything less Mr. NORRIS. No; I understand the Senator did not _an than a hundred million dollars a large amount. In discussing swer my question definitely. the question I just mentioned those figures, but anything under Mr. FERNALD. I think the Senator will probably be an· a billion dollars I do not consider large. swered in a way to satisfy him when I get through with these · 1\Ir. HITCHCOCK. '!·he Senator voted for twice that amount remarks. . to be appropriated for two battleships this year and for ten Mr. NORRIS. Probably I will. I regret, however, that the times that amount for the Navy as a whole. Senator refuses to answer directly. Mr. FERNALD. That is all behind us now. Let us not go Mr. FERNALD. The Senator does not want to charge back to that battle. me with any discourtesy? 1\lr. HITCHCOCK. No; we are right up against it now. The Mr. NORRIS. No; certainly not. I concede that the Sena people have to find the money to pay the $500,000,000 which the tor does not have to answer unless he wants to. Senator has voted for the Navy. Mr. FERNALD. I want to look into it a little more before I Mr. FERNALD. They will be very glad to pay it in order to give a definite answer. protect the boys and the people of the country. If we had had Mr. NORRIS. While the Senator is telling that story to the a little more money to start with when we began the war and farmers, add to it the expense of all the State regulation, and bad had a little larger Army and a few more battleships I do the fact that nobody is ready to repeal the laws and have no not believe the people would have felt very sorry at the time. regulation ; tell that story to the farmers, and they will prob However, that is past history, and I do not wish to yield to ably all be in favor of Government ownership before you get discuss that any further, because that is an old issue. What through. Regulation is costing more than the railroads are does the Senator wish to know? I thought he wished to ask a worth. pertinent question. l\lr. FERNALD. I am just going to show what the Inter l\lr. HITCHCOCK. I should like to know whether the Sen state Commerce Commission has done in ·the past 34 years. ator thinks $52,000,000 is a large amount to spend? The direct exp-ense of fifty-odd million dollars is a mere baga Mr. FERNALD. I told the Senator I do not think it is a telle--- large amount nowadays. Mr. NORRIS. I think so. Mr. HITCHCOCK. I should like to know whether be thinks Mr. FERNALD (continuing). Compared to what it has cost it a large amount to spend in 34 years for the Interstate Com the people of this country, and I want the farmers of the coun merce Commission, when he bas just voted ten times that try to know they have one friend here. And, first of all, let me amount to be expended by the Navy for one year and wheu he say that I have not stated my particular interest in this bill. has -just voted more than that amount for only two battleships? I wish to say that if there is or ever has been a farmer in Mr. FERNALD. I thought I bad answered the Senator, the Senate, I am that farmer, I was born on the farm that without going into a discussion of the general question of more than 130 years ago had been taken up by my great battleships and armies, by saying that I considered it a wi e grandfather, and there has been a Fernald on it ever since and provision. I thought the committee had made a very wise I still live there. l\Iy interest in tl1e bill is from the standpoint decision in their provjsion for the appropriation of that money of the farmer. When Senators rise here, with bleeding hearts, and how much should be appropriated. However, I bad not in the intere t of the farmer and say that every appropriation begun to discuss this very thing. The $50,000,000 I had just they ask for is in the interest of the farmer, I want the mentioned in a casual way. I do not consider that-·- farmers of the country to know who their friends are. I want 1\lr. NORRIS. 1\fr. President-- them to know when we creat;(' a commission here and start with 1\Ir. FERNALD. I yield. , . a small appropriation that it soon spreads out and goes into Mr. NORRIS. 'Vill the Senator _permit me to interject as a the millions and million and the farmers have to pay the bill, casual suggestion that '51,000,000, the total t}J.at has been paid and for the payment of that bill they do not get a single thing by the Government for the Iutcr tate Commerce Commi sion in return. 1\ly friend the Senator from Nebraska-- jn 34 years, is in round numbers just one-half of what Armour 1\lr. LENROOT. l\lr. President, will the Senator yield? & Co. issued as stock dividends in the same length of time. Mr. FERNAI,D. I yield. 1\Ir. FERNALD. We have already thrashed that out. When l\fr. LENROOT. The Senator just made a statement that the we get into the question of stock dividends and matters of that people do not get a single thing in return-- kind, it is a pretty big question, and I know the Senator from Mr. FERNALD. For the legislation that I am going to Nebraska does not want me to take up all the time of the speak about now. Senate. I am coming back to the railroad question again. l\lr. LENROOT. Speaking of the Interstate Commerce Com The expenditure of fifty-odd million dollars is a mere baga mission, he said it cost $50,000,000. Will not the Senator con telle. That amounts to very little. The people of the country cede that there was one single year when in refusing to grant do not care much about $50,000,000 or $100,000,000. The farm the increases that were requested and that were afterwards ers even talk about more than that, ancl the larger amount 1921. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2591 they may be able to borrow on a day's notice. I wish to show I do not know anything about the management of that railroad. what the real expense of the Interstate Commerce Commission I have no doubt every one of its guilty managers ought to be in has been since 1887 in addition to its direct appropriations of the penitentiary. I have known even ministers to be crooks, $51,000,000. and I ha\e known one or two lawyers that were bad men, but Up to 1887 the railroads of the country had been managed because one man in a particular business has wrecked a rail by railroad men. They had had· a pretty free hand in develop road or wrecked a particular business, should all the other rail ing the railroads of the country. I mentioned a few moments roads and all the other Jines of business in the United States be ago about Brigham Young lea•ing northern Illinois away back demolished, or should all the other railroads because of that one in 1845, within the memory of men wh.o ·are now Members of fact be turned over to a commission to be managed by somebody the Senate, I belie\e, and crossing the prairies where now the who does not know anything about the railroad business? corn and wheat grow in luxurious and bountiful harvest for Mr. LENROOT. But the Senator did not get the point of mY the reaper. '.rhat movement bas dev~loped that whole country, inquiry. and what are needed,-out there now more than anything else - Mr. FERNALD. I think I did. are canning factories. · All through many of those States the Mr. LENROOT. The New York, New Haven & Hartford condition exists where they ha\e not bad any development along Railroad was regarded; I think the Senator will concede, as one that line in 10 years, not a single thing. We have built up the of the best railroad properties in the United States. Commit great industries in the country. The railroads· have done a mar tees came here to 'Vashington within six months of the time it velous work toward that development. We would have in the was wrecked and begged that there be no investigation of it. l\Iiddle 'Vest no such development as now exists had it not The point is that when the supposedly best-managed railroad been for the railroads. 'Ve would not have had in California in the United States was wrecked as that was, very naturally any fruits produced for our bre-akfast tables, and we in New confidence was lost to a very large degree in all railroads. England would not have had the cereals grown in the l\1iddle Mr. FERNA;LD. I am sorry to be led so far afield in my West had it not been for the railroads and their development. argument which I had started to make about the Interstate In the period from 1830 to 1887 we had built in this country 9omme_rce Commission. J;Iowever, what the Senator has to say 165,000 miles of railroad. Nobody had ever before heard of any IS applicable to every busmess in the country. I have not any such development in· any kind ·of industry or of any development question that there was mismanagement of the New Haven in any way to be compared with it. About that time the Inter Railroad. state Commerce Commission which I have mentioned was cre The Pennsylvania Railroad, for instance, has always been a ated. I wish to make some comparisons and I challenge any . well-managed road that has always had men at its head who one to state tilat they are incorreCt or that they are not ap- understood the railroad business, and yet that railroad has had plicable to the situation. · · its stock cut squarely in two. That is what I am coming to First of all, let me say that in the development of the rail now, to .show the loss by mismanagement or misdirection. roads up to that time-and I read from the record-the follow Let me say before I go further that I wish to establish two ing situation is rlisclosed: In the year 1890, as I have just said, fundamental principles of fact on which everybody I think will we had built 163,597 miles of railroad. During the next 10 agree with me. First of all I wish it lmderstood that I believe years we built 29,748 miles more, and in 1900 we had 193,345 and I think everyone will agree with me, that property i~ miles of railroads. In the next 10 yea1~s from 1900 to 1910 ·we worth just what it will sell for. When it gets into the probate built 46,947 miles of railroad, the most marvelous building of court or when an estate has ·finally to be settled, or if for any railroads that has even been known in the world's history or reason tluough the process of law or for any other reason prop· .that ever may be known again. In 1910 we had 240,293 miles erty has to be sold, the real value of that property is what it of railroad. will bring on the market. I have sometimes had horses that I From 1910 to 1915, a periou of five years, we built 13,000 thought were very valuable, and after a time I had to sell them miles more, about one-third of what had been built in the pre and I found that they were really not worth nearly so much a~ vious decade, and in 1915 we had 253,788 miles of railroad. In I had believed. If they had been left to my heirs they would 1919--just notice this, please, Senators-we had decreased, and haYe found that tileir real worth and value was just exactly we had 636 miles less of railroad in 1919 than we had in 1915. what they would sell for. I think this is applicable to all lines That shows the decline in the building of railroads. of business. Does tile Senator from Wisconsin agree with me The gx-eat N9rthern Pacific Railroad had a bonded indebted in that? ness which they had to refund at n per cent. In the old days 1\ir. LENROOT. No ; not as to a forced sale. The rule is, I think M.r. Hill-was it Hill or Harriman who built the of course, that property is worth what-- i·oad ?-got the money at 4 per cent, because he was a railroad MI·. FERNALD. It is worth what it will bring. man and the bankei·s o-f the country and the people who had 1\1r. LENROQT. It is worth what anyone who is willing to money were willing to invest it in railroads because they ex sell but not compelled to sell can get for it from one who is pected the railroads to be managed by railroad men. Instead willing to buy but not compelled to buy. of that, however, we had a commission created, made up of I wish to ask the Senator, now that he applies that rule, if lawyers. I have the greatest respect for lawyers, and if I he contends that the railroads to-day are worth only what their should ever get into trouble I should go to a lawyer, but I stock-market values will bring? Does he apply the rule he has· would never get a lawyer to come and undertake to run my just laid down to the railroads? Is it the Senator's position business. 'Vhen you undertake to run the great railroad busi that the railroads of the United States to-day are worth only ness of the United States by a lawyer you have made a mis what their stock-market values w1ll bring? take, unless that lawyer has had some experience in railroad Mr. FERNALD. I am going to allow that if a man owns training. He can not do it any better than anybody else. You stock in a railroad the amount which he may recei\e for tllat had better have a farmer run the railroads, because he at least stock is precisely what it will bring in the market. has studied economy. Mr. LE~TROOT. Then, does the Senator think that the In So the railroads began to dry up, like all other kinds of terstate Commerce Commission in fixing rates should takp into business-- consideration the present depressed market value of railroad 1Ur. LE1\TROOT. Mr. President-- stock and allow only such rate~ as will pay a fair return upon Mr. FERNALD. I yield to the Senator from Wisconsin. that market value? Mr. LENROOT. The Senator is from New England? · Mr. FERNALD. No; I think the stockholders have been Mr. FERNALD. I am. robbed by the Interstate Commerce Commission ; that is what 1\lr. LENROOT. The Senator is familiar with tile New York, I think. New Haven & Hartford Railroad? 1\lr. LENROOT. But the Senator has just said that Congress Mr. FERNALD. Oh, well-. - has no power to fix a different basis of return. A railro~Hl is Mr. LENROOT. I will ask the Senator whether the wrecking entitled to a reasonable return upon the actual value of its of the New Haven road, with which the Government had noth property. If the Senator says now that the railroads are ing to do, but which was accomplished by the so-called railroad only worth what the stock market quotations show, he him managers, and the wrecking of some other roads, did not do self would cut down their return by one-half. more to lose the confidence of investors in railroad securities Mr. FERNALD. If we proceed along the line of argument than any other one thing? . of the distinguished Senator from Wisconsin we can make those Mr. FERNALD. I wi~h to answer . the Senator, because I stocks valueless, and they are going lower about as fast as have great regard for his judgment and I kno-w he is an ex they can. Would the Senator think that after we put the rail ceedingly fair man, that there are crooked railroad men, just roads out of commission and the stock is not worth anything the same as there ar.e c:rooks in oth_er lines of business. When that we ought not to charge anything for freight and passcuger one at the heaq of a railroad develops_ that character, he be traffic? comes a subject for the penitentiary and ought to be sent there. Mr. LEl\TROOT. No. 2592. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE. JUNE 15 ' 1\Ir. FERNALD. The Senator's argument would ·end there. Mr. CUMl\IINS. The railroads are not sold in the market. Mr. LENROOT. The Senator is putting words in my mouth Mr. FERNALD. I am not suggesting that. I am merely that I haYe neyer said. He says property is only worth what stating a fundamental principle that' applies to all property, and it will bring. why should it not apply to railroad stocks? Mr. FERNALD. I think that is true. Mr. CilliiDNS. · Property is ordinarily worth what it will Mr. LENROOT. If that is true, it necessarily follows that, sell for on the market, under reasonable conditions, if there for rate-making purposes, they would not be entitled to more be a market for the sale of that kind of property; but there is than one-half as much as they are receiving to-day. no market in which railroads may be sold. l\Ir. WILLIAMS. ·will the Senator pardon one suggestion? Mr. FERNALD. No. l\Ir. FERNALD. Certainly. l\Ir. CUMl\HNR One can not ascertain the value of a rail Mr. 'VILLIA.t'\IS. I think again the railroads have a double road by resorting to the market price of railroads in a particular status. A railroad may be worth just exactly what the rail market; there is no such thing. Therefore the rule, which I road may bring, and the railroad stock may be worth just ex grant is applicable to a great· many 1."inds of property, is not actly what the stock will bring; but there may be a very wide applicable at all to railroad . ' ., ·,·· diYerO'ence between what the stock is worth and what the rail l\Ir. FERNALD. ~o. . road is worth, if the property has been properly capitalized; 1\lr. CUl\fl\fiNS. One may a certain the value of a bushel of but ~ it not true that a railroad, independently of its stock, is wheat or of a bushel of corn or of 100 pounds of fat cattle, be worth exactly what it would bring? cau e people are constantly, every day, in the public markets Mr. LENROOT. I do not agree to that. If the railroads buying and selling such things; but that is not true of railroads. were put up at auction at any of the present markets of the Therefore we can not resort to a market price in order to ascer country and if the railroads should be T"alued at what they tain the value of railroads. would bring on the market to-day, the stock which has been Mr. FERNALD. I am always delighted to li ten to my fiiend already cut in two would be cut in two again. from Iowa ; he is very clear on · the railroad question, much Mr. WILLIAMS. Undoubtedly. more so than I am, of course; but if the principle I have stated 1\Ir. CUMMINS. Will the Senator from Maine yield to me for is not law, then it is good common sense, that property is worth a moment? what it will bring. Suppose a man dies and leaves an estate, l\Ir. FERNALD. I will be glad to yield to the Senator from and the judge decides that that estate must be settled up. The Iowa. man held 100 shares of railroad stock ; it becomes neces ary to Mr.' CUl\fiUNS. Of course, I listened with great regret to · sell that stock, and what the stock will bring on the market is the attack of the Senator upon the Interstate Commerce Com all it is worth, and it is exactly what it is worth. Am I l'ight mission; but with respect to the present suggestion, what is about that? the use of discussing it? The Supreme Court of the United :Mr. CUl\BITNS. I suppose the Senator is quite right with States-and I understand the Senator does not want to abolish regard to the value of the stock to which he refers, but he is the Supreme Court-- not right at all if he attempts to apply that principle to the l\1r. FERNALD. Oh, no. value of the railroads. Mr. CUMMINS. No matter how much it costs-the Supreme Mi·. FERNALD. I am not applying it to the railroads; I am Court has, over and over again, settled the basis of r~te mak applying it entirely to the stock of railroads. I should like to ing and the value of railroad property for rate-makmg pur have the Senator answer me definitely about that, because he is poses. It has said that the railroad property of the United pretty definitive in his understanding of things. States is worth what it would cost to reproduce it; that is all. Is it not correct that if a man has a certain amount of stock, It is perfectly easy to ascertain what the value is-I mean and his estate has to be settled, there would have to be turned the principle is easy-although it takes a good while to apply over to that estate whatever that stock would brinO' in the that principle to the facts as they develop. market? Is that correct! .l\lr. WILLIAMS. Will the Senator pardon me for just a Mr. CUMMINS. What it would bring in the mm·ket or any. moment? where else. Mr. CUMMINS. Certainly. Mr. FERNALD. Yes. Mr. WILLIAMS. In normal times, of course, what any sort Mr. CUMMINS. I suppose that is true if the stock were sold. of piece of property is worth is what it would cost to repro If the Senator were attempting to ascertain the value of the duce it if it is an a1'ticle that can be manufactured. If it is particular shares of stock which he has in mind, he would liYe stock, its value would be what it would cost to raise it; resort to a market place, and if that stock were habitually sold but there is no excuse for mixing up the stock of a railroad in that market place the quotations there found would be a guide with the physical plant. They do not represent the same thing. as to the value of that stock, and, I have no doubt at all, would l\Ir. CUMMINS. Precisely; the Senator from Mississippi is be accepted; but that has nothing to do with the value of the right. When we passed the valuation act of 1913 we required railroads or the work of the Interstate Commerce Commission, the Interstate Commerce Commission to ascertain, first, what for this reason: The Interstate Commerce Commission, by at· the railroads cost originally, and, second, what it would cost taching unduly low rates to the service rendered by the rail to reproduce them ; and we are not left in any doubt with roads, can affect the value of the stock in the market without regard to the manner of ascertaining the value of raih·oad prop reducing at ~II the legal value <;~f the railroads themselves. erty in order to attach cei.i:ain rates to the service which they 1\fr. FERNALD. I thank the Senator. I believe he and I render. agree so far as the value of the stoclt i concerned. What I l\lr. FERNALD. First of all, I want to say that I do not want to say here is that the stock has depreciated 50 per cent wish to make any unjust criticism of the Interstate Commerce since the Interstate Commerce Commission was created in Commission. I simply say that the result has been just what 1887. I am going to read into the RECORD the · market value of would come from any regulatory body that has had no experi the stock yesterday, and I am going to show that the deprecia ence in the particular ·line of work. I think the Interstate tion in the value of that stock since the Inter tate Commerce Commerce Commission has been made up of honest and fair Commission was created has been $4,500,000,000, by achml fig men, men who are disposed to· do the best they can ; but the ures. That is what I am undertaking to prove. I am not eli · inexpediency of appointing men to the commission to take cussing whether the Interstate Commerce Commi ion can work charge of and to regulate a business when they have had out the problems of the railroads or whether the Inte1·state no experience in that particular kind of business is clearly Commerce Committee can do so, but I am going to show that exhibited by their action. I do not want it understood that I property is worth what it ;w,ill , ~riug, and, is not worth any am making an unfair criticism of the Interstate Commerce more; I am going to sho~ that the property which is made up Commission, and what I started out to prove is entirely foreign of the tock of the railroads has del)reciated, and I want to to the Senator's suggestion. I simply laid down the funda read what some of the e stocks . are worth : mental principle-and I believe it ought to be . accepted by eT"eryone--th'at property is worth what it will bring. If a man High High dies and leaves an estate which has to be ~ettled, all of' his Stock. Junel, Jtmel, stocks, if they must be sold, must be sold on the market, as also 1 7. 1921. must be his real estate and his personal property. Whatever he may have acquired is sold, and it is worth merely what it will 126~ bring. Is.not that good law? 8~fg, tiT~;~!ef~~ i>'atii.'.'.' .' .'.'.' .' .' .'.'.' .' .' .' .'.' .' .' .' .' .': .': .':: 94t Mr. CUMMINS. No; l\1r. President, I do not think it is good Chica~to, Rock Island & Pacific ..• _...•....•...•...••...... 13~ lllin01s Central. .... ·-...... '...... 137~ law. Pennsyl>ania ...... 561-56~ 1\Ir. WILLIAMS. But it is good common sense. 1921. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2593 1\Ir. CUMMINS. ·Mr. Prsident; I can anticipate the outcome, Mr. FERNALD. As a part of my remarks. There appeared for I am fairly familiar with the subject ; but while the Senator: in this paper, the Nebraska Farmer, I think of June 19, 1920, from Maine is establishing what he proposes to establish, he ·an article by the very distinguished Senator from Nebraska will also establish that if the Interstate Commerce Commission [Mr. NoRRis]. The Senator is a very distinguished lawyer and bad permitted rates that would have maintained the market a very fine gentleman, whom I regard highly, although I have value of the stock as it was in 1887 somebody would have had not so much regard for his judgment about the packing busi· to have paid the necessary rates. I hope he will give credit to ness ; but he wrote an article on the packing business, and a the Interstate Commerce Commission fot: saving that situation man who, I think, does know something about the business to the people who pay the rates, although it may have been replied, and I am going to ask as a part of my remarks that pretty bard on those who owned the stock. this article be inserted in the RECORD. 1\Ir. FERNALD. \V.hat I am going to attempt to prove is that .1\fr. NORRIS. Mr. President, may I inquire who is the we are paying right now for the mismanagement from 1887 author of the article to which the Senator refers? down to date; and I am going to try to prove that if the rates Mr. FERNALD. Thomas E. Wilson. which were applied in 1887 had been applied to the business in Mr. NORRIS. He is the president of Wilson & Co., one of the 1920, instead of rates that did exist from September 1, 1920, to five big packers? _ December 31, 1920, there would have been a difference of Mr. FERNALD. I think so. $964,201,903; that is, the rates would have been that much less Mr. NORRIS. Would the Senator object to inserting my than they actually were in 1920. article and his article in parallel columns? l\Ir. CUMMINS rose. Mr. FERN~D. I shall be very glad to have that done. 1\fr. FERNALD. Let me finish; I am not quite through. I Mr. NORRIS. All right; I shall be glad to have that done. want to go on with that statement. If the rates which have The VICE PRESIDENT. If there is no objection, it is so existed since January 1, 1921, had been the same as the rates ordered. · in 1887, it would have made a difference of $1,512,809,328. l\Ir. NORRIS. I should like to call the Senator's attention to .\Vhat I am going to claim is that if the railroads had had an the fact that tllis article was a reply to mine, and I should like opportunity to manage their own business in . their own way to have the Senators read in parallel columns just how he they would have kept the level up, so that we would not have replied and how much he had to say about the charges that been obliged to pass through the period of railroad administra I made in the article that I wrote. tion and depression from which we have suffered and are suffer Mr. FERNALD. I think it will be fair to insert the Senator's ing now, and which has cost this Government vast sums. Of article and the article from l\fr. Wilson. I think that is a11 course, the business is much greater now than it was in 1887, that is necessary. but if there had been an increase of one-half in the business Mr. NORRIS. In parallel columns? since 1887 it would have made a difference to this Government Mr. FERNALD. Ye.s. and when I speak of this Government I niean the people who The articles referred to are as follows : live under the Government-of more than $25,000,000,000. SOME SIDE LIGHTS 0~ THE PACK [From the Nebraska Farmer of There can be no mistake about that. Ens, BY SENATOR GEORGE W. June 19, 1920.] NORRIS. Mr. CUMMINS. Mr. President, the Senator from Maine HOW SHALL THE PACKERS BE REGU· seems to me to ignore in the statement he ·has just made the It was Sunday morning, the one LATED? fact that during the last four years the expenses of operation day. of the week when we can (By Thomas E. Wilson.) afford to have meat for break and maintenance have more than doubled. In many . instances fast. As I took my slice of nice (In recent issues of the Nebraska ancl in many departments of this activity they have more than crisp bacon, I asked my wife what Farmer there were published two trebled. If you should apply the costs of 1921 to the revenues of it cost. She said it was 60 cents articles by Senator NORRIS oppos a pound, I had just been reading ing the settlement agreed to by 1887, not only would there be no net income but there would be from a western country news the Attorney General and the big a vast deficit; and I hope the Senator from Maine will give so"me paper that the price of hogs on packing interests and favoring attention to that side of the ledger when he is stating this the weste1·n prairies was from 10 more drastic regulations of the to 12 cents per pound. It oc packing industry. Believing that account. curred to me that the producers it is no more than fair to present Mr. FERNALD. I thank the Senator. What I am going to and the consumers ought to know all sides of the question we have show by the figures-and I believe no one disputes thei,r correct something about the middleman's asked Mr. Wilson, president of the profit on this necessary article Institute of American Meat Pack ness-is that not only has the stock of the railroads been cut of human food. ers, and also the head of one of squarely in two but the Senator from Iowa realizes and, of I wonder if the farmer in the the large packing companies, to course, knows much better than I that the stock of the railroads ,;od house on the prairie and the give in this issue the packers' side laboring man in the overcrowded of the question. In later issues represents about 45 per cent .of the valuation as made by the city of the East really under more articles on this important Interstate Commerce Commission, as nearly as . they can get at stand that this mighty space be subject will appear.-The editors.) it, and the bonds represent about 55 pei· cent of the real value tween them is inhabited by a mul Since writing the article on the titude of unnecessary profiteers subject of packer legislation, pub ·of the railroads. Am I correct in that? who are living in luxury upon the lished in the June 5 issue of the Mr. CUMMINS. Not quite, as I remember. Taking the capi toil of the two extremes of' this Nebraska Farmer, my attention has talization, including stocks and bonds, of all the railroads in the great equation. It ought to be been called to two articles by interesting to the underpaid pro Senator NORRIS. United States, the bonds represent, speaking roundly, 66 per cent ducer . and the overcharged con It is to be regretted that the of the capitalization and the stock 34 per cent. sumer to get a view of some of Senator representing a constituency Mr. FERNALD. That takes in all of the class 1 roads, as I the side lights ; some of the over of producers of live stock and a head charges and expenses that oil State where the packing in(Justry understand. the machinery of the mighty cor constitutes so important a part of l\fr. CUMMINS. All of the roads which report to the Inter porations which control most of its industrial life did not discuss state Commerce Commission. the lines of the food products of some constructive measure calcu the world. · lated to improve the industry in Mr. FERNALD. I have gone into that matter at considerable Under existing conditions the general, rather than to indulge in length. I have undertaken to show that the expense whic]l has producer and the consumer are so criticism of the business and those been attached to the creation of these commissions has been very far apart that they live almost in engaged in it. If there is any different worlds. They do not thing wrong with this industry great; that when once established we are never able to abolish realize the network of machinery or with those responsible for its them. I realize that in the past few years, or since a few existing from one end of the coun management, surely there must be phrases have been coined, these reforms hava. gone on at an un try to the other, having wit1.1In its some measure that would correct it. grasp the most mighty financial One would naturally hope or ex precedented rate. It was but a few years ago that we began to institutions and under its control pect from one occupying so exalted hear about " the common people." I suppose there are some, but the dissemination of news and lit and important a position something I never saw any. To me they are all as uncommon as the flowers erature of the da.v by which the other than impugning references very atmosphere of both consumer and artful insinuations intended in the field. We have heard about "the toiling masses." Since and producer is saturated with a to discredit this vital industry, these phrases have been coined great progress has been made in false knowledge of the necessity impair its efficiency, and destroy these methods of reform. We have undertaken to reform every of all this useless and expensive public confidence in its integrity. machinery, thus keeplng them both It is much easier to tear down thing. There is hardly anything or any kind of business but that in ignorance, with a natural tend and destroy than to plan and the Congress of the United States has been asked to regulate it. ency in each to fear that the other construct a great enterprise. It I realize that I have spoken for nearly three hours I want to is getting the best of the deal. has become a favorite pastime with They both realize that middlemen many men anxious to be regarded insert in the RECORD, in my time, without reading, if the Senate are necessary, and that machinery as statesmen to attack successful will permit, an article. Some time ago, when we had rather is essential to make over the prod industry. A careful study of the more time than we have now, I undertook to insert in the RECORD uct of the farm into a suitable two articles written by the Sena commodity for the table. They tor fails to disclose a single con an article which appeared in one of the farming papers of the do not fully understand that they structive suggestion looking to country, the Nebraska Farmer. At that time the Senator from are both bowed down in poverty ward improving the economic con Utah [Mr. SMooT] objected; but now I am going to ask that this because they contribute day by dition of the producers of his State day and year by year to the im or the country at large. be inserted in the RECORD. mense fortunes of many million Successful business enterprises l\1r. SMOOT. As a part of the Senator's remarks? aires. who are living in compara- can not be built and maintained 2594 CONGRESSIONAL It.EOORD-SENATE. JUNE 15 ' tive idleness and luxury_ upon .the upon any .other ,foundation than teresting to note that .he received 40,000,000 head of live stock in toil and the sacrifice of the two that o! integclty and the good will large salaries not only from -the this co11Iltry, consisting of 7,088,- extremes. It ought to be inter of the public. There 1s no more j)ackel's but from many other lar~e 468 cattle, 20,!716,515 hogs, 8,931,- esting to consider briefly a few of destrncti:ve agency than distrust corporat1ons, notabl-y Standard Oil 757 mutton, and 2,486r201 calves. these unneces~ary and exorbitant and suspicion. A person or bmi,. concerns, which always 'have been The net proiit to the vackers de overhead expenses wlrl:ch they con ness suspected is already half interested in and which always rived 'from 1:he sale of tbls im tribute to tbe · oilin~ of tile great .condemned and it may possess a have .spent ·immense sums of ·money mense quantity of meat and aU international machinery o-pe1:ated .thousand virtues, yet •One fault is to control not only the .Jaws of the the by-products derived from those by the packers. rr'his infor.mation ofte-n magnified far beyond all its Nation hut of the States. It was animals, as well as all profit from has been taken from hearin~s be commendable achievements. discovered upon investigation that all other sources of business trans fore Senate committees and the TTCTI:U OF 'UN.TUST CRITICIS'lf. Mr. Logan was getting $500 a acted in ·this country, when di month from Swift & Co., $500 a vided by the number of animals, Federal Trade Commission. No industry in 'the 'history of WHAT O,XE YOGNG MAN DID. month from the Standard Oil Co. show the startling results of an this country bas been the ;victim of New Jersey, $500 a month from average profit of only 87j cents Several years ago a very bright of so much unjtLStifiable criticism. the ·Standard Oil Co. of Indiana, per head. . and enterprising newspaper man It has been -charged ·with every $700 a month from !the Atlantic No· farmer would be willing to in Philadelphia moved to Wash thing from causing the war to Re:fining Co., $51>0 ,a month :from slaughter the animals on his farm ington. He came to the Capital spreading the "fin." 1f prices of the Freeport Sulphur C'o., and $500 for such a small profit per head, City as the Wasb:ington corre live stock decline no matter what a month from the General Electric to say nothing of finding a .market spondent for a Philadelphia paper. the cause, it is cbarged to be the Co. ·This ·may not be a complete for the meat and by-products. The His ability as a writer soon fault of the packer; if the:r:e is an list of his .clients, but wh-en the packers could ;not do it, either, brought him additional clients. It advance, the consumers .are told reader considers these salaries, to ·were it not for the immense 'llUm was not long until he ~ecame an that the packers are profiteering. ·gether with the compensation ·he ber handled and the efficient dis editorial writer for a well-Jmown Many stock-jobbing enterprises, received from the various news i:llibutive t)ystem they have devel eastern magazine. He soon be organized to enric'h their l).ro papers and magazines which he oped through which a Jlundrea came a regn1ar contributor to .a lllf)ters~ attempt l(;o excuse their represented, it can at once be seen m.illion consumers are pro-vided Wall Street publication on own s.nortsighted mismanagement that his income compared favor with fresh ana wholesome . meats financial subjects. He was ta.ken by charging the packers with a ably with the great .magnates of for every meal every day in the on as one of the editorial writers conspiracy to destroy them. Wben the corporations which he rEU>re yeat:. All these things and more of an economic magazine, a pub the packers are forced to utilize sented. have contributed to the ·welfare of lication with a circulation all over the _press of the country to correct In addition to aD this, it should the country and the stabJlization the United States, having for the the false statements made against be said here thai \Vhile Mr. Logan of iindustr;y and should be the ·sub main object of its existence ibe them, their motives are ques was drawing these salaries he ject of gratification rather than of maintenance of a high protective tioned, and the integrity of the made a trip to ·Europe at the re abuse and condemnation. If tari1f. He was soon employed as press is impugned. · one of the quest of Mr. Hurley, a ·Govern PUBLlQ-SERVICE 'REWARDS. a writer on a magazine known as packers employs a representative ment :x:epresentative. His ilntire the Fourth Estate. Thls is a in Washington for any legitimate While it is true that these trade publication for newspapers, pUi'POBe, all the ,packers are expenses from the time he left thing.s have been wrought out .as America until he returned :wtrc a matter of business, there have and goes to lll'actically every charged with dark designs to over paid out of the Treasury of the new ~ paper office in the country. reach unsuspecting officials. United -states. He ·testified tha-t !Jeen rewards in other ways. ~here He likewise became an editorial Designing politicians, in and lS a sense of satisfacti & 0>. He tin:iJn.ed thai: he •ea:r:ned m:magement. It should not be I .LXI--16-! ·- - 2600 CONGRESSIONAL R.ECORD-SENATE._ JUNE 15, and control of stockyards and re and immortal Webster, who, returning to his native town in the frigera tor plants, together with their intimate connection with old Granite State, on a memorable occasion, speaking to his people, looking off to the West on the grandest panorama of :!~f;; ~~~;!!1 ~~sf£~i~on~w~~ t~f mountain scenery that human eyes had e-ver witnessed, said, in is not my purpose to Jlscuss the remedy here, but in conclusion I one of his most eloquent pero-rations: de ire to say that by the owner Yonder, my friends, you see a mountain whose peak rises above us. ship and control of refrigerator Still farther west Is another whose crowning point is higher still. cars and stockyards the packer Higher yet is the eagle's tlight; but above all is the eternal principle question is inseparably intermin o! justice. glerl with the question of railroad control, and if will be found impos I repeat, if our people are to be deprived of the principles of sible to properly control one with~ justice by legislation, then such words of glowing patriotism out controllin"' the other, and mainly in this i think can be dem by those who helped to found this Republic become as sound onstrated the remedy that must ing brass or tinkling cymbals. If our citizens are to be de ultimately be applied to narrow piived of their rights, then pull down· that old ensign which the present mammoth and expen sive gulf that exists between the has heretofore been the banner of the free, strike down the producer and the ultimate con Liberty pole and rear in its stead on a brazen staff the red flag sumer. of bolshevism. :\Ir. FERNALD. Not e"'eryone that saith "Lord, Lord," shill All! Senators, these things can never be. That old ensign, enter into the kingdom of he~n-en, but only those that do the will for which thousands and hundreds of thousand& of the bravest of the Lord. boys in the bravest Nation of the world have been willing to I realize that at almost every session some Senator rises in die, shall continue to stand for liberty, for freedom, for justice. the interest of the farmers of this country. I have already I can not believe, I will not admit that bureaucracy is to be stated that my sympathies are with them. 1\ly feelings are with the policy of this Government. I have faith in the Senators them. I have lived among them,. an "Order to cease and desist, March 6, 1919. Commission's maintain such standard scale of prices, and by fines and threats order affirmed, United States circuit court of appeals, sixth to withdraw labor, compelling members to maintain such prices circuit, December 7, 1920. against their will . . Not yet disposed of. "DOCKET NO. 17: BUllEAU OF STATISTICS OF TllE BOOK l'Al'E.R M.!NUFAC· " DOCKET NO. 85 : STANDARD OIL COMI?.A.-1\JY OJl' Il'\DlAXA. TURERS, CHARLES P. MOOilE, THE BUREAU'S SECRETABY, AND 23 PAPER :UL~UFACTUUERS. "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Unfair methods of competition in the "F. T. C. act, sec. 5 : Unfair methods of competition by manufacture, sale, and distribution of petroleum products by engaging in a concerted movement to enhance prices and bring refusing to sell in quantity lots outside of its territory, except about a uniformity of such enhanced prices in the book-paper to other Standard Companies, by selling its surplus to other industry. Standard Companies at prices below the tank-wagon prices "Order to cease and desist on stipulation, November 8, 1917. maintained by it in its own territory, selling at tank-wagon u DOCKET XO. 19 : MISRAW AKA WOOLEN MANUFACTURING CO. prices direct to customers in certain local competitive areas, etc. "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: (1) Unfair methods of competition by "Clayton Act, sees. 2 and 3: Price discrimination and price fixing a schedule of resale prices, by requiring purchasers to fixing contingent on the nonuse of competitors' products by the agree to maintain such prices, by refusing to sell unless such purchaser, tending to create a monopoly and substantially lessen agreement is entered into and by refusing to sell if agreement competition. is violated. 'J Order to cease and desist, July 21, 191.9. "Clayton Act, sec. 2: (2) Price discrimination, the effect of "DOCKET NO. 88: BEECli·NU~ PACKIXC CO~tPANY. which may be to substantially lessen competition or tend to "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Stifling and suppressing competition in create a monopoly. the manufacture, marketing, and sale of chewing gum by fixing "Order to cease and desist July 18, 1919. Petition for review specified standard resale prices and refusing to sen to those of order filed in C. C. of A., seventh circuit, not yet decided. who will not agree to maintain such prices. "DOCKET NO. 20: THE CUDAIIY PACKING CO. "Order to cease and desist, June 30, 1919. Order reversed, " Clayton .Act, sec. 2: PTice discrimination, the effect of which U. S. Circuit Court, second circuit, February 2G, 1920. Writ of may be to substantially lessen competition or tend to create a certiorari granted by U.S. Supreme Court (October term, 1920). monopoly. ' Not yet decided. "F. T. C. act, sec. 5 :·Unfair methods of competition by fixing "DOCKET NO. 96: RINGWALT LINOLEUM WORKS (INC.). a schedule of resale prices and by making a price to those who "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Stifling and suppressing competition in do not adhere to the schedule so high that they can not make a the manufacture and sale of floor covering by advertising, hold fair and reasonable profit on resale. ing out, and selling its product to the public as linoleum, whereas "Order to cease and desist released July 31, 1918. its product is composed of a felt base impregnated with asphal u DOCKET NO. 24 : THE GAL!:~A-SIG~AL OIL CO. tum, with a paint backing and facing, which simulation is de "Clayton Act, sec. 2: Stifling and suppressing competition in signed and calculated to aeceive and mislead the public and the manufacture and sale of lubricants, etc., by price discrimina cause pm·chasers to believe that the product is linoleum. tion. "Order to cease and desist, May 27, 1919. " Clayton Act, ec. 3: Fixing its sales price or discount or re "DOCKET XO. 134: STA~IlARD OIL CO:lli'AXY OJl' ~·Ew YORK, bate thereon, on the condition that the pm·chaser shall not use the goods of competitors. "F. T. C. act, sec. 5, and Clayton Act, sec. 3: Unfair methous "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: The effect of both practices being to sub of competition in the business of purchasing and selling refined stantially le sen competition or to tend to create a monopoly. oil and gasoline are charged by virtue of selling, leasing, and "Order to cease and desist June 29, 1920. loaning pumps, storage tanks or containers, and their equipments below cost, with the understanding that dealers shall not place in 41 DOCKET ~0. 79: AMERICAN AGRICULTURAL CHEMICAL CO. AND THE BROWN CO. such devices the refined .oil or gasoline of competitors, and mak "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Stilling and suppressing competition in ing exclusive dealing contracts to that effect. the manufacture of fertilizer and in the refining of animal fats " Order to cease and desist, April 27, 1920. Petition 'for re and the sale of the products by purchasing and offering to pur view of Federal Trade Commission order filed in U. S. Circuit chase raw materials in certain local areas at prices unwar Court of Appeals, second circuit, August 11, 1920. Not yet de ranted by trade conditions and so high as to be prohibitive to cided. • small competitors, such prices being designed to punish certain "DOCKET NO. 14.0: STANLEY BOOKIXG CORPORATION. competitors who had refused to enter into a working agreement "F. T. C. act, sec. 5, and Clayton Act, sec. 3: Stifling and sup to eliminate competitive bidding for raw materials; willfully pressing competition in the sale and leasing of moving:Picture causing their trucks to collide with automobiles owned and films by causing contracts entered into between producers and operated by competitors. certain of its competitors to be broken, exhibiting films in thea " Clayton Act, sec. 7 : Acquiring all of the stock of the B1·own ters in close proximity to those of competitors in advance of Co. by the American Agricultural Chemical Co., the effect of production by competitors and at a less price, but after contem which may be to substantinlly lessen competition between the plated exhibition of the same pictures had been advertised by two or to tend to create a monopoly. competitors, selling and leasing films on condition that films of " Order to .cease and desist October 8, 1918. competitors be not exhibited, by compelling certain theaters to "DOCKET NO. &0: SEARS, ROEBUCK & CO. pay to it 10% of the cost of films of other producers booked "F. T. C. act, sec 5: Stifling and suppressing competition by direct, to compelling certain theaters to book their films through means of false and misleading advertising offering sugar and respondent, and by threats of withdrawing patronage, etc., com other commodities for sale at prices lower than offered by com pelling producers to cease supplying its competitors with films. petitors and actually below cost, but conditioned on the pur " Order to cease and desist, September 10, 1918. chase of other goods on which the profit is made and by false "DOCKET NO. 164 : Ji'EDEllAL ROPE COMP-ANY (INC.). and misleading advertisements relative to competitors. "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Stifling and suppressing con;1petition in "Clayton Act, sec. 2: Price discrimination. the effect of which the manufacture and sale of. rope by representing by letterheads, may be to substantially lessen competition or tend to create a price lists, tags, stencils, etc., certain of its product to be monopoly. 'manila' rope--tlJ.at is, composed of new manila fiber entirely "Order to cease and desist June 24, 1918. Order affirmed and exclusively-whereas it is in fact composed of fiber taken with modifications by United States Circuit Court of Appeals, from old and used rope. seventh circuit, April 29, 1919. " Order to cease and desist, M~·.ch 4, 1920. "DOCKET NO. 28: PHOTO-ENGRA'iiERS' CLUB OF CHICAGO. "DOCKET NO. 21.2 : A. T. M'CLURE GLAS.S CO. ''F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Adopting a stundard scale or uniform "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Stifling and suppressing competition in price at which they sell their products und with the intent of the jobbing of window glass by opening the boxes in which glass stifling and suppressing competition in the manufacture and is shipped to them by the manufacturer, removinO' the quality Eale of photo-engravings having entered into an agreement with slips, changing the quality brands on the boxes to indicate that the Chicago Photo-Engravers' Union, No. 5, I. P. E. U., by th(1 glass of a higher grade than that shipped by the manufacturer termE of which the respondents employ only union labor in their is co~tained therein, and selling such glass at the prices govern manufacturing plants, and the members of the union do not ing on glass of such higher grade, the practice being designed accept employment from any manufacturing photo-engrave~ not to mislead the J>Urchasers into the belief that they are receiving a member of the respondent club, and in furtherance of such from respondents the quality of goods for which they pay. agreement the union has adopted a l'ule whereby union labor "Order to cease all{l desist September 25, 1919. Substitute is to cease working in photo-engraving plants which do not order to cease and desist May 13, 1920. 1921. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2603 "DOCKET NO. 21.4: WL"STED HOSIERY CO:!Ill'A."S"Y. lessen competition between the respondent and the Aluminum "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Stifling and suppressing competition in Rolling Mill Company, or to restrain commerce in certain sec· the manufacture and sale of underwear by labeling and adver tions and communities, or to ten-d to create a monopoly. tising certain lines of underwear composed of but a small " Order to divest stock, March 9, 1921. amount of wool as ' men's natural merino shirts,~ ' men's gray "DOCKET NO. 254: (1) WESTERN SuGAR BEFINING COMPANY AND CALIFO.RNIA..• H:AWAIIAN SUGAR RlilFINING COMJ.>A~lY; (2) HAAS, BARUCH & CO., ST~ wool shirts,' ' men's natural wool shirts,' 'men's natural wor SON·BARRE'l' CO. ET AL.; AND (3) THE C. E. CUMJ3ERSON CO., THE COLBERT sted shirts,' 'Australian wool shirts,' such labels and advertise CO. ET AL. ments being false and misleading and designed to deceive the "F. T. 0. act, sec. 5: (1) Above, engaged in the manufacture trade and general public into the belief that such und~rwear of can~ sugar, are charged with stifling and suppressing compe is composed wholl-s; of wool. tition by refusing to sell to the Los Angel-es Grocery Company, "Order to cease and desist January 29, 1920. Reversed by respondents. (2) Above, wholesale grocers, are charged with 0. C. of A. (2nd circuit). To be renewed in U. S. Supreme stifling and SUP-pressing competition by conspiring among Court. themsel\es and with respondents (1) and (3) to prevent the "DOCKET '0. 215 : MINERALS SEPARATION (LTD.) ; MI~"""En.ALS SEPARATION Los Angeles Grocery Company from obtaining the commodities AMERICA..~ SYNDICATE (LTD.) ; MINERALS SEPARATIQN AMERICAN SY!I.'DI CA.TE (191.3) (LTD.) ; BEER, SONDHEIMER & COM:P~Y; BEim, SOND dealt in by it by threatening not to buy from manufacturers HEUIER & COMPANY (INC.) ; :rt.fiNRRALS SEPA.I.'t.A.TION NORTH AMERICAN and to boycott the goods of such manufacturers should they CORPORATION ; BEN NO ELKAN ; OTTO FROH.ffi'NECHT; AND HARRY sell to the grocery company, and by other means; respondents FALCK. (3), engaged in the business of selling the products of various "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Stifling and suppressing competition in manufacturers of groceries and food products .and are charged the selling, leasing, and licensing of apparatus, processes, para-· with stifling and suppressing competition by permitting them phernalia, supplies, accessories, data, etc., used in the separation selves to be intimidated by threats of boycott, and have in con and concentration of ores by entering into and enforcing and sequence refused to sell the wares. of their principals to the attempting to enter into and enforce agreements by which the Los Angeles Grocery Company. respondents undertake to prevent inventors, manufacturers, " Order to cease and desist November 29, 1919. Petitions for T"endors, lessors, licensors, and users (independent concerns) of r~view of Federal Trade Commission order filed in C. C. of A .., apparatus, etc., not covered by patents or patent rights eon mnth circuit. Not yet deci-ded. trolled by respondents (independent commodities) from selling, 0 OO:CKET NO. 271. : FRUIT GROWERS' EXPR£SS. leusing, licensing, or using independent commoditi~ without permission; to permit no independent concern to manufacture "Clayton Act, sec. 3: Respondent is engaged in the business of to in and sell~ ete., independent eommodities except on l)ayment of leasing various railroad companies refrigerator cars used exorbitant -commission ; to discriminate in exaeting such eom the transportation of fresh fruit and vegetabl~s under a con missions ; to compel SUlTen~ to respondents of iJl.T"elltions; to tract containing a clause which reads as foll~ws: ' The railroad shall the line's equipment exclusively in the movement prevent -communicating to scientific societies, jOUl'nals, ~. or use ear otherwise information relatiye to new _processes, ete., without of :fruits and vegetables under refrigeration in earloads trom permission ; to compel mine operators, metallurgists, et~ not points on the fines of railway owned or operated by the rail in respondents' employ to withhold all information relating to -road during the life of this contract.' It is charged that this a}Tparatus,. etc., from defendant in event of patent litigation in clause is inserted in the contracts for the purpose of substan stigated by respondents; to exact exorbitant royalties and to tially lessening competition, anil that such is the effect and di criminate in such royalties; and by falsely and maliciously further that the praeti.ce comp-lained of has enabled the re disparaging independent commodities and concerns, asserting spondent to aequire a eomplet~ monopoly in the transportation exclusive rights, threatening snits for infringement, by intim of the commodities mentioned over the lines of railway with idating and coercing to the end that independent commodities which it has such contracts. be not used and independent concerns· be not dealt with, all " Order to cease and desist Ma-y 7, 1920. Petition for review tending to create a monopoly. of order filed in C. C. of A., sev-enth circuit. Not yet decided. " Clayton Antitrust Act, sees. 2 and 3, respectively : Price dis "DOCKET NO. 273 : PAN MOTOR COMPANY AND SAMUEL C. PANDOLFO. crimination and selling, leasing, and contru.ct making at prices, "F. T. C. act, sec.. 5: Unfair methods of ·competition .are diseon;.nts, and rebates conditioned on agreement not to u...~ or charged in connection with soliciting of subscriptions to, and deal in competitors' apparatus, etc. Not yet disposed of. the sale and o1!ering for sale of-. stock in the Pan Motor Com "'DOCKET NO. 2:!7: HELVETIA ~!ILK COND~SING CQUI'A..11IT, pany, of which Samuel C. Pandolfo is president, and which is ... [September 12, 191.9. Petition gl·anted to nunrerous companies to controlled by him, such as making and -publishina false mis 'intervene as parties respondent herein.] leading, and 11Ilfair .reports. aBd statements relating to ~ plan "F. T. 0. act, sec. 5 ·: Injuring and harassing its competitors. m: organization, assets, resources, busine s, etc., Qf the company destroying the trade of its competit~rs, and suppressing and mld suppressing facts; stating~ contr.ary to tact, that S1lbscrip. stifling competition in the sale of evaporated milk by guarantee tions would be limited in each case to 25 shares ; maki.ng. etc., ing its customers against a declin.e in price of g.oods purchased false statements relative to design, priee, etc., of :automobiles and not .resold at the time of any such subsequent decline .and represented to be made by them ; making, pnblishlng ad-ver agreeing to refund the difference, and by actually making such tising. ·and circulating Qthe.r false and misleading statemen-ts refunds. Not yet disposed of. including representations, predictions, and promises relating u; " DOCKET NO. 233: THE NEW -JERSEY ASBESTOS CI:OMP.U;'Y. the design, production. and manufact:rore rOf a certain motor tractor., described as the ~Pan Tank-Tread Tractor' and in "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Unfair methods ~f competition in the cluding statements the intent and purpose of which was to manufacture and sale of engine packings to the extent that it create the impression that the stoek of the Pan Motor Oompany has been giving to employees of its customers and.prospective was ratably eq11alin value to Liberty bonds. customers, and of its competitors~ customers and prospective '"' Order to ~ruJe and nesist, May 27, 1920. customers, gratuities, ,&"Uch as liquo-r, cigars, meals, theater rc DOCKET NO • .211! -rESTLE'S ll'OQ]) COMPANY (INC.). tickets, etc., and to the extent tlmt it has been secretly paying 11 sums of money to such employees as an inducement to infttlence F. T. C. act, sec. 5, extended by act to promote export trade, their employers to deal with respondent. sec. 4: Stifling and suppressing competition in the manliDlcture "Order to cease and desist from giving gratuities, May 27, and sale of condensed milk in export trade by using on its cans 1919. Order reversed, U. S.. Circuit Court of Appeals, :Second of contiensed milk shipped from the United States into Mexico circuit, February 26, 1920. Federal Tr.ade Commission petition certain forms of labels wbich deceive and mislead th~ pur for review granted May 13, 1920. Chasers of said condensed milk in Mex:ico into the belief that it is manufactured Jn Europe, the labels wholly eonceali..n.g the "DOCKET NO. 241: MALZO COFFEE COMPAh"'Y. faet that the condensed milk is manufactured in and shlpped " F. T. C. act, sec. 5: With the intent of stifling and sup. from the United States. pressing competition, respondent in 1914 began to sell, offer to "Order to cease and desist, November 29, 1919. sell, and advertise 'Malzo' coffee, such simulation being de a: DOCKE'l' JlrO s-o3: UTAH..l£DAHO SUGAR •._ DOCKET ~0. 573: OWE~S BOTTLE-M.iCHTI\""1: CQ-. AND L. S. STOEHR. exchange, partieularly in. the publications of the repponclent pub "Clayton Act, sees. 3, 7, and 8 : The respondent company, en lishing company, (b) the instigation and preparation for trial gag d in the manufacture and sale of glass bottles and in· the of certain litigation, (c) refusal to make available to saiu co mam:rfactnre, license, lease, and sale of ' Owens Glass Blowing operative exchange and its members the telegraphic market Maebines,' bas entered into "licensing agreements for the use of quotation service supplied by the respondents, (d) the boycott its machines by whicb the licensee agrees not to use respond of and persistent refusal to buy grain from the said cooperath.""e ent's machine in connection ·with the machines or devices of exchange, (e) the suppression of competition among members of competitors, thereby excluding competitors from securing sales the respondent chamber of commerce and discrimination against and lessening competition ; and by acquiring control of the nonmembers, and (f) by the means of contracts binding country Whitney Glass Works, the American Bottle Co-., and the shippers to ship all or a greater part of their grain to the re Graham Glass Co. and interlocking directorates with the aid of spondent chamber of commerce members, all in alleged violation respondent L. S. Stoehr, the respondent company tends to of secti.on 5. Not yet disposed of. create for itself a monopoly. in the interstate sale of certain u DOCKET NO. 702: WE.S.TERX ELE.CTRIC COMPANY · (INC.). of classes glass bottles. "F. T~ C. act~ sec._ 5, and Claston Act,. sec. 3: The t·espondent, "Dismissed as to respondent L. S. Stoehr (deceased), Feb engaged in the manufacture and sale of teler>bonic appliances, ruary 2~ 1921. Directed that complaint be conducted against equipment, and supplies, functions as the- manufacturing de respondent under its changed name, ' Owens Bottle Co.,' 1\Iarch partment of the American Telephone & Telegraph ComJ.lilllY and 2~ 1921. C£illlpetes with other manufacturers and dealers for the- business '"~Not yet disposed of. of independent telephone companies. Unfair methods of com " DOCKET KO. 580 : CROCKER BROS. ET AL. petition and the creatian of a virtual monopoly are charged in '"' F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Unfair methods. of competition are that the respondent (a) contraets for the ·ai~ of its goods at cbarged in that the respondents, who during the :period ot the fixed prices on rendition that purchasers will not use the tele recent war were forced to cease iinl)orting and seiling ferro phonic equipment sold by. c~.:npetitors of the respenilent, (b} manganese, owing to the British embargo on exportation and makes false and misleading statements to the effect that i..Bde> during which time the manufacture of said :pro-duct was devel pendent companies using its equipment will thereby secure- bet oped in the United States by persons other than the respond ter terms from the ' B.ell system ' for toll service e1~ will be ents, have now commenced to import ferromanganese from unable to secure long-distan.ce Ol" toil connections. without the their British principals and sell the same at prices substantially use of respondent's equipment,. ( c} utili2les the i.n.fiu.ence o:r less. than the actual market value at the tlme ot exportation banks to induce independent telephone companies to purchase from England plus freight and expenses incident to importa their appliances,. equipment, and supplies from the respondeat, tion and sale in the United States with the intent of stifiing the (d) procures the cancellation of contracts entered into between fudustry in the United States and estabUshing a monopoly. independent telephone companies and respondent's eompetitnrs uNot yet disposed of. . by special reductions ln its priees to such proSIJee.tive enstomers, " DOCK.E'.r NO. 594 : BUTTJ£1UCK CO., FEDERAL PUBLISHING CO.,_ STANDARD and (e) falsely represents that certain of its competitors are F.iSHION CO., BUTTl!lRICK PUBLISHING CO., ~W IDEA PA'rl'ERN CO., , going out of business or closing branch offices. and that the cus N1> DESIG:VEI! PUBLISHING CO. tomers_ of said competitors will thereupon be- unable to ecure ~· F. T. C. act, sec. 5, and Clayton Act, sec. 3 : It is charged repair parts and additional equipment. Not disposed of_ that tbe respondents, a consolidation of paper dress pattern manufacturers and publishers of periodicals advertising and "OOC.K:ET :~s-o. 7011: ClGAR; MANUFACl:!I:UREBS' ASS'Y Oll' T.B1PA, ll'U., ET A.b. illll.Strating sucb patterns, bave adopted unfair methods in " F. T. C. act,. sec. S: Unfair methods of competition m"e <·<>mpeting with other producers of such patterns by entering charged in that respondent cigar manufacturers, in an effort to into conh·acts with about 20,000 retail dry goods dealers~ binding restrain competition in the sale of cigars and to create a mo t11e . aid retailers to maintain fixed resal~ prices and prohibiting na-poly o:r· the supply of an essential element in the sale of cigars, ue-nling in patterns manufactured by respondents' competitors, entered into an agreement witb the respon.dents' cigar-l>o:x: th respondents refusing to sell to retailers who decline to manufacturers~ the intent and effect Qf which was to vest in ent~r into such contracts or be bound thereby and threaten the respondent association control of the- supply of cigar box~s in::; and instituting suits for damages if contracts are broken, upon which the manufacturers of cigars in Tampa and vicinity said methods tending to lessen competiti{)n and to create a are dependent, the respondent association employing it'3 control monopoly. Not yet disposed of. of the supply of cigar b~es to deny to and witbho.ld from non « DOCKl!lT NO. 623 : SUNLIGHT CREAMERIES. member and competing cigar makers: theii• necessary supply of "F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Unfair metho-ds of competition are boxes~ Not yet disp_osed of~ charged, in that the respondent, engaged in the sale ot butter, u(3) IMPOR~- -~ WORK DONE BY TH» COMMISSIO~ IX 'CLE~IXG CP. 1 IXDUSTRIES. conducts a campaign of defamation against a competltm~ by cr(A) hfrS circulating among competitor's employees~ patrons, and others Commercial bribeTy-ln general: The commission false and unfair statements with reference to competitor's busi done ve1·y effective work: in eradicating unfair competition nes methods and financial stability and, by persuasion and methods in different industries. Commercial bribery, one of intimidation, attempts to induce employees to sever their rela the most widespread and far-reaching evils encountered in the tions with the competitor and join the respondent with such business world, bas received special consideration in this connec of the business and patronage of the competitor as they com tion. This vicio.us practice consists of the payment of money, mand, said practices being in contravention to the respondent's or the giving of presents. gratuities, entertainments, etc., or ratification of the creamery industry trade practice submitt.ai, both, usually by a salesman of the seller· to the purchasing ~o-ent November 20, 1919. Not yet disposed of. of the buyer, for the purpose of influencing him to give a pref erence to the seller's goods. Where money is paid, the tmlawful a DOCKET NO. 69S : CARDON OIL CO. (OHIO). purpose is presumed, but where there are presents or entertain " F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Unfalr methods of competition are ment only, their value and the. extent of the practice are taken chru·ged. in that the respondent attempts to imitate the :products into censideration,. with th~ special circumstances of each indi of the Vacuum Oil Co., well known to the trade as 'Mobiloil' vidual case, in determining whether an unlawful purpose is of various grades, designating its product as 'Mobile A Oil' and falsely representing it as the product of the Vacuum Oil present. " The business enterprises covered in the commission~s investi Co. bought by the respondent from the United States Govern gation of commercial bribery relate to paint, oil, and varnish; ment, and in that the respondent in the sale of products which printing ink; dyestuffs and chemicals ; textile soaps ; the ship have never been the property of the Federal Government terms chandlery and repair industry; and other miscellaneous branches itself a ' distributor of U. S. A. oils/ and stencils on its con of trade. Eacb of these phases will be· treated: in detail nnd.er tainers the letters 'U. S. A.' to mislead and deceive the pur its proper heading below. chasing public. Not yet disposed of. " Commercial bribery-Paint, oil, and varnish and allied prod tt DOCKET NO. 694 : THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. OF MINNEAPOLIS ; THlil OFil'ICERS, BOARD OF DIDECTORS, AND MEMBERS OF THE CHA?.lBER OJ' ucts: The commission's first work in connection with commercial CO Mi\IERCE OF MINNEAPOLfS; MA.NAGER PUBLISHING COMPANY, JOHN H. bribery was done in this fiel{l, its first application for complaint AD :US ; UD JOHN F. FLE.'M:ING. having been docketed as early as April, 1917. •• F. T. C. act, sec. 5: Unfair methods of competition are "A total of 27 applications for complaint have been docketed charged in that the respondents are engaged in a confederation against concerns engaged in this industry, of which 14, after and conspiracy to annoy and embarrass and destroy the busi . ex parte examination, have been dismissed and 2 are still pend ness of the Equity Cooperative Exchange, a -rompeti.tor of the ing; the remainder, 11, having gone to- formal complaint, and respondent chamber of commerce, and its members in the sell resulted In the- issuance of 55 formal complaints, the excess o! ing, buying, and distribution of grain, by (a) the publication of complaints over applications being due to the fact that in some false and misleading statements c9ncernin~tbe said cooperativ~ applications there were a number of respondents who were pro- 2606 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 15, ceeded against individually. As a result of these 55 adversary " Commercial bribery-Ship chandlery and repair business: proceedings, the commission entered 50 orders to cease and de The commission began its work in this industry in the fall of sist and 3 orders of dismissal, 2 cases being now pending. 1918, its investigator going to New York for that purpose. " The widespread interest aroused by the commission's activi During the course of his activities there he met the officials ties in this field caused the paint and varnish manufacturers to of the Association of Sbip .. Store Dealers of the port of New organize, on January 1, 1918, the unfair competition bureau o.f York, an organization formed somewhat earlier in the same the paint and varnish industries, with an office in Washington. year to combat the practice of commercial bribery-and was Mr. M. Q. MacDonald, formerly an attorney with the commis able to secm·e the cooperation of this organization. sion, and a man of wide experience in commercial bribery mat " Of late the commission's work for the suppression of ters, was placed in charge. This bureau has more than justified commercial bribery has been confined almost entirely to the its existence by its work in eliminating not only commercial ship chandlery and ship repair business. On account of bribery but other evils prevalent in the trade, such as misbrand the decision of the United States Circuit Court of Appeals in ing and false and misleading advertising. It has been effective the second circuit in the New Jersey Asb~stos Co. case, that as a clearing house for complaints, in keeping its members from commercial bribery is a matter between individuals and not backsliding after having eliminated graft, in aiding the commis one so affecting the public as to be within the jurisdiction of sion to find evidence against offenders, and in many other ways. the commission, the work in that circuit has been stopped tem "Commercial bribery-Printing ink: On November 24, 1917, porarily and the commission's recent efforts centered on the at the request of a number of prominent printing-ink manu coast cities from Norfolk to Galveston, and with important facturers, a meeting of representatives of the industry was held results, finding the decision of the United States Supreme Court before the commission. During the course of this hearing it on the commission's jurisdiction. developed that only the day before, at the instance of the "As of April 1, 1921, a total of 92 applications had· been National Association of Printing Ink Manufacturers, a con docketed against concerns engaged in this industry. Of these ference purporting to represent 90 per cent of the printing-ink 20 have been dismissed and 9 are still pending-the other 63 manufacturers had been held, at which a stipulation was entered having gone to formal complaint and resulting. in an equal into by all those present that every effort would be made by number of such formal complaints. In these 63 formal com members of the association and by nonmembers to discourage plaints there have been 53 orders to cease and desist and 3 anything indicating bribery or other unfair practices in their orders of dismissal; the remainder-7-are still pending before particular field. The stipulation was filed with the commission, the commission. and the understanding was that if any of tile signatories vio " Deep interest in this phase of the commission's work has lated its provisions, such breach was to be reported to the been shown at every port. Expressions from all persons inter commission by such others as might have knowledge thereof. viewed and investigated have been practically unanimous in the The conferences and stipulation referred to were the direct desire to see the bribery custom eradicated. The evidence indi result of investigations conducted by the commission's exami cates that it has cost some firms as high as $50,000 to $80,000 ners in connection with applications for complaints already in a single year. Amounts given to captains or other officers docketed. of vessels to secure good will and orders for supplies or repairs " Early in 1918, as a result of applications for complaints have ranged in many instances from a few hundred to several filed with it, the commission undertook to rid the entire printing thousand dollars. Although 5 per cent of the purchase price ink industry of the practice of commercial bribery. It investi of the commodities was once the general or commonly accepted gated four large concerns, and as a result issued complaints percentage allowed, competitive bidding at times has brought against all of them. Other applications followed until a total this figure up to 10 per cent and 20 per cent, and even as high of 15 were docketed and investigated, resulting in the dismissal as 100 per cent, as evidence before the commission shows. This of 8 and the issuance of 9 complaints in the other 7 cases. The necessarily induces short weights ·and measures, inferior quali total number of orders issued against concerns engaged in this ties, short deliveries, and a train of conspiracies between officers industry has been only seven, but the effect has been very of ships and unscrupulous dealers to defraud shipowners far beneficial, and with the cooperation of the majority of the beyond the amounts involved in the mere giving of the gratuities. manufacturers, who have always supported the commission in " Encouraged by the efforts of the Federal Trade Commission this work, it has not been necessary to pr.oceed in a large along this line, in which they had already earnestly cooperated number of cases. in their individual capacities, a group of progressive concerns "Commercial bribery-Dyestuff.s and chemicals: Another im in marine circles organized the American Ship Service Cor portant branch of business in which the commission has done poration in February last and established headquarters at Wash effective work is the dyestuff and chemical industry. Forty ington, D. C. Mr. C. E. La Vigne, a former examiner of the eight applications for · complaints have been docketed, 20 of Federal Trade Commission and a man of wide experience and which have been dismissed and 6 of which are still pending. In marked success in investigating commercial bribery, was placed the other 22 cases an equal number of formal complaints were in active charge of the work. · issued and served, resulting in 8 orders to cease and desist, "The activities of this new corporation are intended to be 1 order of dismissal, with 13 cases still pending. national in scope. Its charter membership includes representa "Conditions in tliis industry were somewhat difficult, because tive business concerns engaged in different phases of shipping the evil bad a strong hold and cooperation . has not been as at ports extending from New York City to Galveston. Its prin strong as in other industries, although the lack of support is cipal object is close cooperation with the authorities charged probably due to skepticism in reference to the commission's with the f:nforcement of Fede:;:-al and State laws against unfair ability to cleanse the trade of this taint, rather than to any practices in shipping circles. Membership in the corporation positive opposition. · carries with it the pledge that no gratuities, systematically " Commercial bribery-Textile soaps: A total of 30 applica lavish entertainment, so-called commissions, or other thing of tions for complaint have been docketed in connection with this value will be given to any person whatsoever, directly or indi industry, of which 11 have been_dismissed. The other 19 have rectly, to influence the placing of orders in connection with gone to formals, resulting in an equal number of formal com the shipping business. The corporation, during the short period plaints, of which 1 has been dismissed and 2 are still pending. of its existence, has accomplished a great deal, and should ac In the other 16 cases, the commission's order to cease and complish more and more as its membership increases. Through desist was entered. the efforts of this organization, the trade press has taken a "Commercial bribery-Miscellaneous: A total ·of 25 bribery leading part in directing attention to ·the fact that America is cases of a miscellaneous character have been docketed as appli in the process of building up a gTeat merchant marine, and that cations, the most important industries covered being road one of the vital factors in success is in keeping it clean and building machinery and printers' rollers. Of lesser importance overcoming one enormous and unjustifiable item of waste, to are a few cases relating to boiler compounds, printing and pub wit, graft. lishing, sizing paste, rags, horseshoes, lubricating oils, paper "It is interesting to note that 1:wo Norfolk concerns have coating materials, lacquer, corsets, music rolls, a<}vertising recently appealed from the orders of the commission to the matter, etc. Nine of these applications have been dismissed, circuit court of appeals for the fourth circuit. These cases 4 are pending, while 12 of them went to formal complaints, differ from the New Jersey Asbestos Co. case, in that the evi resulting in the issuance of 30 of the latter, the excess of dence taken in both of them disclosed the fact that 'large formals over applications being due to the fact that in some sums of money ' had been given by the respondents to captains applications there were a number of respondents who were of vessels to which they furnished supplies. While testimony - proceeded against individually. Of these 30 adversary pro showed that the New Jersey Co. had given gratuities, such as ceedings 17 are still pending, and orders to cease and desist liquor, cigars, meals, theater ticket , and entertainment, there have been entered in the other 13 cases. was no evidence to show the use of money. 1921. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN.A.TE. 2607 " (B) Lottery schemes : The commission has also given some other than an adjective sense, and then only when coupled with attention to this matter. Acting on applications for complaints the ·name of the material or some other qualifying term, such filed with it, it issued 24 formal complaints against concerns as color, finish, etc. Illustrative of the foregoing, the follow (all but one of which were engaged in the tea and coffee busi ing and similar terms would be permissible: ' Ivory celluloid,' ness). The allegatjons in these complaints were that these 'ivory pyralin,' 'ivory fiberloid,' 'ivory viscoloid,' 'ivory-color companies were giving and offering to give to customers and celluloid,' 'imitation ivory,' 'imitation shell,' etc. The follow prospective customers, as an inducement to secure their trade ing and similar terms would be considered objectionable: and patronage, certain coupons or certificates which were re 'French ivory,' 'Parisian i"rory,' • tortoise shell,' 'jade neck deemable in various prizes or premiums consisting of personal laces,' 'coral necklaces,' etc. property of unequal values, the distribution of which was de "The representatives of the industry further expressed them termined by chance or lot. Nineteen orders to cease and desist selves as being opposed to the use of the words • French,' 11ave been entered, the other five cases having been dismissed ' Parisian,' or any other geographical designations in connection for failure of proof. with the material, or articles fabricated therefrom, unless they " (C) Trade practice submittals-In general: A formal defi truly express the point of origin and are coupled with some nition of a trade practice submittal has not been made by the other qualifying term, such as color, finish, etc. commission. One short definition which has been suggested is "In regard to marking or branding of the industry's product, 'A trade practice submittal tenders to the commission the judg the commission took the attitude that it would not attempt to ment of industry upon practices prevailing therein.' It is a force the members of the industry to brand or mark their goods procedure adopted first by the commission, to afford members as to quantity, quality, or substance, but that when the members of an industry the opportunity to meet, to define, and by mutual of the .industry do mark or brand their goods, such marks or agreement among themselves, to eliminate at one stroke without brands should be so definite and correct as not to deceive the legal proceedings, unfair, harmful, and wasteful practices gen purchasing public. erally prevailing in the industry. The commission is not a "Trade-practice submittal-Used typewriters: This was held party to the agreement. A trade ·practice submittal contem on February 27, 1920, and was representative of manufacturers plates a public meeting of industry, in the presence of the com and dealers in second-band, repaired, and shop and factory re mission, either upon the initiation of the commission or upon built typewriters from all parts of the country. It was the application of the industry, to discuss the merits and demerits result of numerous applications by members of the industry to of business practices which have been generally complained of the commission for the issuance of complaints against other to the commission as being unfair, to the end that the expert . members of the same industry. The representatives present opinion of a given industry as to the fairness or unfairness of agreed to use their influence in discouraging, among others, the various competitive methods may be crystallized and recorded. use of the following practices : The findings of the meeting are submitted to the commission as "(1) The offering of rebuilt" typewriters as new. the judgment of the industry, and are accepted by the commis " ( 2) The offering of repaired typewriters as rebuilt. sion in an advisory capacity as authoritative, evidential data " ( 3) The sale of used and partially cleaned m:tchines as re available to the commission and in aid of proceedings by the built typewriters when, in reality, no competent man has touched commission under the statutes enforceable by it. th_e machines, and they are not even properly adjusted. "The practice bas been followed in a number of industries, as "(ll) The ml_suse of the term • rebuilt,' as in the case of re follows: moving the carriage, bi·ushing it, applying a small amount of " Trade practice submittal-oil industry : Two meetings of enamel paint, and calling the machine rebuilt. interest to this industry have been helrt, the first on June 22, 1920, at Chicago, and the second on August 19, 1920, at Denver. "(5) The sale of old machines slightly repainted and fixed up The Chicago conference was called at the instance of the Inde as rebuilt. pendent Oil Men's Association and the American Independent "(6) Applying a coat of varnish to a machine, which is air Petroleum Association and was the result of a number of com dried, and spending an average of three hours repairing a ma plaints from the trade which bad been investigated by both as chine, and calling it rebuilt. sociations and which were considered of serious enough import "(7) The sale as rebuilt machines of those which have only by these organizations to solicit the aid of the commission. A · been refinished. member of the commission was present and presided at both " ( 8) The practice of guaranteeing a machine sold by the hearings. - dealer who is not himself a competent workman and does not "A number of rules were adopted at both conferences con employ a skilled typewriter repair man or service man. demning some practices and·recommending affirmative action as "(9) The making of misleading guaranties of machines sold to others. Among the practices condemned were : ( 1) False on mail orders long distances from the place of business of the representations as to the actual value of a competitor's prod dealer. ucts; (2) attacking a competitor as to his financial standing, " Trade practice submittal-knit goods: On October 7 1920 personal integrity, or ability to serve the trade; (3) condemn the commission addressed letters to the knit-goods ma'nufac: ing a competitor because of the size of his business; ( 4) adver turers of the country inviting them to attend a trade practice tising so as to imply that competitors are not selling good submittal to be held October 20, 1920. The purpose was to con- • products; (5) misrepresenting or misbrand~ng of any peb.·oleum sider a plan by which there might be a general elimination of products; ( 6) all forms of secret rebates or settlements whereby such methods of competition as were admittedly unfair as books and accounts can be so manipulated as to cover up the promptly, and with as little inconvenience to the trade as pos actual conditions; (7) commercial bribery; (8) making of con sible; and, second, to get the views of the members of the in tracts with ultimate consumers or users of oils, gas, etc., at a dustry concerning the practical operation of certain methods fixed price guaranteeing against an advance and protecting concerning which the commission desired further information. against a decline; (9) tank wagon or service station sales on a Some of the methods which had been complained of were: Mis credit basis. Regulations were also prescribed with reference branding in many forms. weighting of silk, false advertising, to sales on a quality basis, 8ervice and filling stations, commis price maintenance, guarantee against decline in price. The sion-agency agreements, the leasing and selling of curb pumps, meet~ng was held in due course, and the methods just men tanks and barrels to retaEers, and cash discounts. tioned, with some others, discussed at length. As yet, however, "More than a third of the United States was represented at the knit-goods manufacturers have not gone as far as those these conferences ; the one at Chicago embraced representatives engaged in the pyroxylin plastics industry. from the States of Indiana, Illinois, :Michigan, Wisconsin, 1\Iinne " Trade practice submittal-Guarantee against decline: Un sota, Missouri, Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, northern der date of December 26, 1919, the commission sent out a ques Oklahama, and Kansas, while the one at Denver covered the tionnaire asking for a discussion of the question of guarantee States of Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, and New against decline in price, which had been the subject of a great Mexico. . many complaints before it. . " Trade practice submittal-pyroxylin plastics industry : This "This inquiry resulted in expressions from more than 350 was held in May, 1920. The trade was represented by delegates manufacturing and selling concerns, including trade associa from various associations of manufacturers of the basic ma tions whose represented membership must have been more than terials, by numerous manufacturers of articles fabricated from double the number of individual statements. From the scope the basic material, also wholesale and retail dealers in the fin of the inquiry, and the number and variety of replies, the re ished product. A report was submitted and adopted by the sults shown may be taken to be fairly representative of the whole conference of the industry, and submitted to the commis difference in business opinion on this subject. The inquiry by sion, which accepted it and placed it on file. questionnaire was further supplemented by hearings before the " The industry went on record as being opposed to the use commission on October 5 and 6, 1920, at which both those favor of the words 'ivory,' 'shell,' 'amber,' 'jade,' 'coral,' in any ing the practice and those opposed thereto were heard at length. 2608 CONGRESSIONAL R.ECORD-SEN1\..TE. JUNE 15, "On February 15, 1921, the commission announced that it " Certain practices were considered and in nearly every case would consider each ca e of complaint involving this practice condemned by unanimous vote. In eYery case the condemning upon the faets shm\n to exist in the specific case, applying the tOte was by a substantial majority. The following acts, meth legal tests thereto, this action invo1ting neither the approval ods, and practices were declared unfair, harmful, bad business nor clisa:ppro\al of the economic soundness of the arguments practice, and unlawful, and therefore to be refrained from: advanced for or against the practice. "(1) The ·willful interference by any person, association, or u Trade practice submittal-Macaroni industry : A. conference corporation, by any means or device whatever, with any exist was held on June 25, 1920, with representatiYes of the package ing contract between an employer and employee or agent of goods macaroni manufacturers. Among those present were rep such employer in or about the production, manufacture, trans resentatives of the National Macaroni Manufacturers' Associa portation, purchase, or sale of any dairy product or the per tion; Cle\eland Macaroni Co., of Cleveland, Ohio; the Cream formance of any contractual duty or senice connected there~ ette Co.., of Minneapolis,. llinn. ; the Foulds Milling Co., of Chi with, such interference being for the purpose or with the effect cago, m. ; the Fahringer- Macaroni Co.r o:f Milwaukee, Wis. ; the of dissipating, destroying, or approprhiting, in whole or in part, American Macaroni Co., of Philadelphiflt Pa.; the Briggs Cereal· the patronage, property, or business of another engaged in such Products Co., of Cincinnati, Ohio; A. Zerega's Sons, Consoli industry. dated, ot BI·ooklyn, N. Y. ; and representatives of the Armstrong "(2) The intentional overtesting, undert&'i:ing, or in any man BUI-eau of Related Industries, of Chicago, Ill., and the Bureau ner making or declaring a false return or report on the test of of Chemistry of the Department of Agriculture. the quantity of any dairy product or any constituent thereof "'The conference was called by the commission in the public purchased or sold. interest and at tlle suggestion of the industry to discuss a num "(3) The use without the consent of the owner of any can, ber of practices prevailing in the package goods macaroni cream-station equipment, or other property used or employed in trade. the shipment, purchase, or sale of any dairy product with the ... After full discussion the conference expressed its disap intent or effect of appropriating the patronage, property, or proval of the following practices: (1) Slack-filled packages, (2) business of another. the snbsidiz.ing of salesmen of wholesalers and retailers to "(4) Furnishing or lending to any producer, dealer, or ship push the sale af the goods of a particular manufacturer in pref per of dairy products any can, cream-station equipment, or erence to the goods of his competitor, (3) the giving of pre "(D) Investigations at instance of Department of Justice particularly suggested by the ·public statement of the President Raisin case: Under date of September 30, 1919, the Attorney that the business world would welcome some modification of the General requested the commission to make an investigation of prohibition of the Sherman law with respect to export trade. the California Associated Raisin Co. This was for the purpose As a result of this inquiry the commission published a two of: (1) · Obtaining information as to whether or not the com volume report entitled ' Cooperation in American Export · pany in question was obtaining and maintaining more than fair Trade,' and a little later Congress passed the Webb-Pomerene and reasonable prices for its products; (2) having the com Act with respect to export trade, which practically enacted into mission, under authority of section 6 of its organic act, make · law the recommendations of the commission. recommendations for the readjustment of the business of the "At the request of the President the commission undertook, company, in order that it might hereafter :ib.aintain its organiza shortly after its organization, an inquiry into tt·ade conditions tion, management, and con(Juct of business in accordance with affecting our relation with the South American countries, and law. as a result published a report entitled 'Trade and Tariffs in "In accordance with "the foregoing request, the commission South America,' which furnished information of considerable instituted an inquiry, giving notice thereof to the Raisin· Co. value in connection with the work of the International High A large amount of testimony was taken, and, in addition, Commission, which was held at Buenos Aires in 1916. arguments heard and briefs received on behalf of the company " From the very beginning the commission gave considerable in question, as well as on behalf of the American Seedless attention to the question of better accounting methods ih trade Raisin Co., the Bonner Packing Co., Rosenberg Bros. & Co., and industry and on its own initiative did considerable educa Guggenhime & Co., and Chaddock & Co., packers of raisins, and tional work in suggesting better methods of accounting, and also the National Wholesale Grocers' Association of the United published a few brief pamphlets in this connection. It also at States. tempted to gather some information from the industrial cor "As a result of its investigation, the commission, on June 8, porations of the country regarding their gross sales and profits 1920, made a report (1) describing the _general relation of the on a very simple schedule with the same general educational California Associated Raisin Co. to the raisin industry; (2) purpose in view. While there was a wide response in the way concluding; in the absence of a showing of a greater increase in of voluntary returns to this schedule, the imperfect manner in the cost of production, there having been no diminution in pro which the returns were made demonstrated the correctness of duction but rather a slight increase, and after considering the the commission's view that the methods of cost accounting gen diminishing purchasing power of the dollar, that the price fixed erally in vogue were quite inadequate. For this reason also the by the raisin company for the 1919 crop was in excess of a fair results of this inquiry, which it had been intended should be and reasonable price; and (3) making certain recommendations published by industries, were not published, because they were for the readjustment of its busine'ss, among which may be not regarded as sufficiently accurate. . named the cancellation of all contracts fixing selling prices, on " Early in 1916 the rise in the price of newsprint paper led the conditiou of .exclusive dealing, the separation of plants the Senate to call for an inquiry into that industry. A report leased or purchased from competitors so far as may be neces which was published on this subject disclosed an increase in sary to insure freedom of competition, the abandonment of price considerably greater than the increase in costs, and also purchase of carry over and curtailment of production as inci evidence that there was an attempt made by the newsprint paper dents of business, the· abandonment of ' firm-at-opening price' associations to restrain trade. The result was a suit by the and 'guarantee against decline' devices in marketing when Department of Justice, and from this developed an agreement these practices in combination with other acts tend toward the out of court with the Attorney General through which the mem creation of monopoly. bers of the commission were called on to arbitrate the reason ableness of newsprint paper prices. " It may be of interest to note that as a result of the com " The bituminous coal industry had for some years been com mission's report the Department of Justice instituted proceed plaining of the extremely unprofitable prices received and in ings against the California Associated Raisin Co. under the sisted that Government intervention of some kind was necessary . Sherman law, which have been halted. Recent reports indicate to mitigate competition and otherwise to regulate the industry. that the control of the raisin crop has reached'92 per cent. ,In accordance- with a resolution of the House the commission " It should not be assumed that the result of a trade practice commenced an inquiry into this matter, but hardly had it gotten submittal is the complete elimination of the practices defined af? started before an extraordinary advance in the price of anthra· unfair. It is an expression of the opinion of the more progres cite in the autumn of 1916 and the request of the Senate for an sive and clear-thinking minds in an industry, and is the basis investigation of that subject directed its attention into another upon which these men in the industry and the commission co aspect of the coal industry. Somewhat later a marked advance operate to deal with that fortune of the industry which persists occurred in bituminous coal prices, which was also investigated, in the use of such practices. and a report of the commission on these matters was published " INQUIRIES MADE BY FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSIO~ SINCE ITS ORGAN!· a few weeks after the declaration of war with Germany. ZA.TION. " Just before the declaration of war the President had directed " When the Federal Trade Commission was organized on the commission to make a comprehensive investigation of the March 16, 1915; it absorbed the personnel and equipment of the food industries of the country, and for this purpose CongTess Bureau of Corporations and the work it was doing as provided provided a special appropriation. Next to the cost-finding work by law. At that time there were about six investigations that of the commission in aid of the war activities of other branches h~d been almost completed and for which the printing and proof of the Government, this group of food investigations was the reading was nearly completed. These reports of the Commis principal work of the commission along this line during the war. sioner of Corporations were finished during the early days of It was divided into four principal parts, namely, the meat-pack the commission while it was planning its organization and ing industry, the grain trade, the flour-milling industry, and the · methods of conducting its work. canned-foods industry. There was also a general inquiry into "There were also several investigations that the Bureau of marketing and storage. Each of these specific inquiries re Corporations had been directed to undertake which had not been sulted in extensive published reports. finished and these the commission continued. Among the " During the war the commission, at the direction of the latter were an inquiry into the pipe-line transportation of petro Senate, also undertook an inquiry into the prices of farm imple leum, pursuant to a Senate resolution; an inquiry into the ferti ments, upon which a comprehensive report was issued. It also ·lizer industry, pursuant to another Senate resolution; a study undertook, on its own initiative, an investigation into the costs of the beet-sugar industry, which originated at the direction of and prices of leather and shoes and published a report thereon. the Secretary of Commerce; and an investigation of the system " In all these economic inquiries conducted during the war of resale price maintenance which had been initiated by the the results of the work were made available to war-time regu Commissioner of Corporations. On all these matters printed lating authorities us rapidly as they were available. reports were published by the commission. The commission also "The most important work conducted by the commission continued the work on the petroleum industry in accordance during the war was the cost-finding work undertaken at ·the with the Senate resolution by making a study of the cost of direction of the President and in behalf of the various depart production and prices of petroleum oils. and especially gasoline, ments and administrations concerned with the purchase of on which a report was also published. materials or the war-time regulation of industries, such as the " The first importaut inquiry commended by the commission War and Navy Departments, the Fuel Administration, the War was into conditions affecting American export trade. This in Industries Board, the Food Administration, the Railroad Admin quiry was initiated by the commission under authority of sec istration, and the Shipping Board, not to mention other branches tion 6, paragraph (h), of its organic act, which specifically of the service. The costs of production were ascertained by directs it to make such inquiries from time to time, but was an elaborately organized accounting force, and periodical re- 2610 CONGRESSION.AL R.EOORD-SENATE. JUNE 15, ports were submitted to t he purchasing or regulating authori~ .. ExrrmrT .A.. ties in order that they might determine what prices they should .. List or -in vestigatio118 lJ.!ldlJlrta.ken by tllc commission (l·om date -of its pay or at what prices the industries should be permitted to organi:ation• . sell to the public. The commission, .however, had no part in the fixing of prices. Thus the cost of production of eoal in Num Originating Date of first the T"arious districts was reJX)rted from time to time to the Fuel Inquiry. authority. Form of report. b_;~1~f -volume. Adminisb:·ation, aB well .as petroleum; the cost of iro-n and umcs. steel, copper, lumber, cement, cotton textiles, and a vast number of other commodities were reported to the War Industries Board periodically,· the cost of canned ·fruits, vecoeta.bles, .and Pipeline t~ortation of Senate ...... : . P rinted ...... Feb: 28, 1916 ~:> petroleum. fish, of flour, and the profits from meat packing were reported FertilizcrJ.n.dustry...... _ ..... do----~·-- ....- do ...... A.ng. 19, 1916 to the Food Administration; the co_st of locomo-tives to the Rail- ~e~~- tariffs in South President ...... : . . do ...... June 30, 1916 road Administration ; the costs of steel and wooden construe- Cooperation m American .c · - .. • 2 Do. tion materials to the Shipping Board:; the costs of an infinite export trade. . omiDlSSlon .. · · • · · .... o-- · · · ·-- \Uriety of supplies to the Army and Navy, from clinical ther- Bootsugar...... ~-···-- Bu:r eau of ...•. do ...... May 2!,1917 mometers to locomotive. cranes, etc. 'Corporat ions. "Some of these costs collected in war time were later W{)rlrod i:"~;;d~~~~~::::-:: -~~~i-s~~~:~: ":No~r~~~i-i ::: ·:: ------~- -~~~:- -~~-~~~~ up and published for public informati~ such as the cost of Gasolmepnces._...... Senate ....•... Printed...... 1 Apr. U,1917 coal, copper, etc. Resalcpnoomamtenanee... Bureau of ..... do...... 1 June 30,1919 Cor-porations. "Since the war a number of important inquiries have been Tnidcassociations .... ______Ca:mmission. ... Nol'eport...... - ...... 9 1916 ;::~:. ~he tt~n~~~:i~:u:JU;:;. r~~~~ :·~~~~ ~~~~~~~: Mexican sisal ... -.---...... se:;s::ee. com- Printod...... 1 May , Antlu:acite eoalindnstcy.... Senate ....~~- ...... do ...... ~ 1 June .20,1917 the California oil indush·y, the commercial feeds industry~ Bituminouseoalindustry... Honse·--··-~ ... .. do...... 1 Do. and southern live-stock prices; and the H-ouse of Representa- Newsprintp_aperindustry .. Sen.ate ...... do...... 1 Jane 13 1917 tin~s has called for investigations of the combed cotton-yarn Book·papermdustry______---- ~do ...... do______1 Ang. 21'1917 '1 19'"'0 th h d tr In1!erl.Ocking~e::tnrates. ... Commission. .. - orqport...... ' ... .. industry, the advance of 01 prices in ~ , · e ·S oe in us y, £rices of Ameucanful.gs .... House-- ~ ---- Printed______1 .T•Jy 26,1917 the sugar supply and prices in 1919, and the -prices of leaf :M:estpaCkingindustry ...... 'President ...... do ...... ~ 6 June 301919 tobaceo in 1920. On all these subjects the commission has either Gmmtrade______ao ______..... do...... 3 Sept . 15'1920 Flour-industry___ ---·- · ... ___ ..-do ...... __ ... _.do...... 2 .Atrr- .t' 1918 published reports alrea •• Coal No. 5, Ohio, In,diana, ~d Michigan, June 30, 19;1.9. Gerry ·:Ki.Dg New Sutherland "Coal' No. 6 Mar:vland, We~t Virgi.Qia, and Virginia, June 30, 1919. . Gooding Kno:x Nicholson Trlimmell "Coal: No. '7; "...'rans·~1ississippi States, June 80, 1919. Bale Ladd Norris Underwood " Coopera_tion in American E:!rport Trade, June 30, 1916. Hartis La Follette Oddie Wadsworth " Copper Costs, June 30, 1919. Harrisnn Lenroot Overman Walsh, Mass. "Commerc~al Wheat Flour Milling, September 15, 1920. Heflin Lodge Phipps Walsh, 1\font. " Causes of High Prices of Farm Implements, May 4, 1920. Hitcheock McCormick Sheppard Warren "Fertilizer Influstry, August 19, 1916. Jonea, Wash. McCumber Simmons Watson, Ga. "Findings, Orders, ~d Conference Rulings of Federal Trade Com- Kendrick McKinley Smith Weller mission, Volume I, April ;1.5, J 920. . . Kenyon McLean Smoot Willis «Findings and Or(iers of Federal Trade Comuuss1on, Volume II, Keyes McNary Spencer Wolcott June 30, 1920. Mr. GERRY. I desire to announce the absence of the Sena "Flour Milling and .Jobbing, April 4, 191.8. "Fundamentals of a Cost Svstem for M.amtfacturers, July 1, 1916. tor from Louisiana [Mr. RANSDELL] and the Senator from Ohio "Grain Trade, Volume 1, Country Grain Marketing, September 15, [Mr. POMERENE] on official business. The PRESIDING OFlnCER (Mr. WADSWORTH in the chair). l!l¥,OGrain Trade, Volume 2, Terminal Grain Markets a:nd Exchanges, Sixty Senators having answered to their names, there is a Seot~mber 15, 1920. r, Grain Trade, Volume 5, Future Trading Operations, September quorum present. 15 Mr. CARAWAY. Mr. President, by way of preface, I wish ~· E~~her and Shoe Industry, August 21, 1919. "Uaximum Profit Limitation on Meat Packing Industry, September to state -that I am not in sympathy with Goverunent ownershipt 25, 1919. and not much in sympathy with Government regulation or con "Meat Packing Industry: . trol of private business. I do believe, however, the pending: bill " Part 1 Extent and Growth of Power of the Five Packers m :Meat and Other 'rndUBtries, June 24, 1919. should be supported or should be attacked upon what the bill "Part 2, Evidence of Combination among Pack~rsi November 25, 1918. itself provides. I do not think it should be defeated because " Part 3, Methods of the Five Packers in Contro ling the Meat Pack· other commissions may have failed. nor do I believe it ought ing Industry, June 28, 1919. "Part 4 The Five Larger Packers in Produce and Grocery Foods, to b-e defeated by a misrepresentation of its real provisivns. June 30 1919. If there is to be any kind of governmental regulation of the " Part 5, Profits of lhe Packers, June 28, 1919. packing industry, I do not believe anyone ean find any re~.l. ob "Part G, Growing, Fattening, and Marh-eting J.Jive Stock, June 30, jection to the pending measure. It has but seven provisiOns 10 9 ~ :News rint Paper Industry, June 13, 1917. which touch the control of the pack!ng industry. "Petrofeum Industry of Wyoming, January 3, 1921. Mr. NORRIS. 1\ir. President-- "Advance in Prices of Petroleum Products, Jnne 1, 1920. "PiJ?C Line '.rmnsportation ot Petroleum, February 28, 191G. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Arkan "Price of Gasoline in. 1915, April 11, 1917. sas yield to the Senator from Nebraska? "Prices of America:n Flag, July 26, 1917. .Mr. CARAWAY. I yield. "Private Car Lines, Ma-rch 26 1920. '' Southern Live Stock Prices, February 2, 1920. Mr. NORRIS. When the Senat.:>r speaks of the pending meas " Sugar Supply and Prices. November 15, 1920. ure he has reference. I presume, to the Senate committee bill, " System of Accounts for Retail Merchants, July 1, 1918. the substitute? " Resale Price Maint-enance, June 30, 1919. "Tt·ade and Tarifi's in South America, June 30, 1916. Mr. CARAWAY. I have. It would be almost a farce to " Wheat Prices in 1920, December 13, 1920. concur in the House bill, because what it really does no one "Wholesale l\farketing of Foods, June 30, 1919. knows, except it gives no relief to the public ancl is no doubt "Woolen Rag Trade, Jnne 30, 1!)19. " Commercial Bribery, l\Iarch 18, 1920. entirely satisfactor:t to the packers. If we are to ha-ve any '-' Discussion of and Practice and Procedure under the Export regulation at all, we must take the Senate bill. Tr~dixfr~tcts from the Trading with the Enemy Act and Executive I realized that those Senators who are opposed to any kind of Order of Octoi.•er 12, 1917." governmental control or regulation are going to vote against both measures, but those who have no real objection to gov Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President, there is one criticism in the ernmental regulation of some industries, but want the packers letter the distinguished Senator read about the Federal Trade left without regulation, are going to support the House meas Commission that I should like to explain. . ure. There is not a packer who, if he were here and had When the Federal Trade Commission was first organ1z~d, a a right to be heard, would urge any objection to the House number of business concerns went there with certain p.ro.posi bill, because it does not do anything except put a law on the tions in regard to their business dealings, and wanted the Fed statute books that never could be enforced and never could eta! Trade Commission to approve them. They wanted them to regulate or control his actions. I know that when anyone license certain plans they had. These plans w:ere referred to shall support the House measure he will do it because he the lawyers of the commission, and jn nine cases out. of ten wants in appearance, to support governmental control, when. those plans were Sherman Antitrust Act cases with wh1ch the in eff~ct, he does not want such control of that particular Federal Trade Commission had nothing to do, and were matters industry. under the control of the Department of Justice, which enforces The Senate committee bill has seven provisions to regulate the provisions of the Sherman Antitrust Act. the packers. I believe every one of them is the law now, ancl Mr. SMOOT. Mr. President, does the Senator from Georgia certainly there is not an honest man anywhere wbo could say that it was not understood at the time the Federal Trade object to a single one of those provisions. Summarizing the Commission was created that they were to assist business, and bill it provides that the packers shall not engage in unfa.ir to counsel business men, and to advise them as to how best to and discriminatory practices. It provides that the packers overcome difficulties in their business? . . shall not discriminate against one person or one locality in When I voted for the creation of that comnnsswn. that was favor of another; that they shall not apportion the supply of what was unde1·stood. I think the business men of the counh•y live stock so as to haye no competition in the purchase of live had a perfect right to go and ask them fo1· advice, because the stock; that one packer shall not buy all and apportion the live business men of the country understood that that wa~ what stock among the other packers. the Federal Trade Commission was created for. But rnstead It provides that they shall not manipulate or control the of becoming advisers and assistants, they become prosecutors markets so as to control prices, either of the finished product or and persecutors of business. of the live stock. Mr. HARRIS. :Mr. President. I think the Federal Trade It provides that they shall not conspire to monopolize the Commission has assisted business, but assisting business in a business. . legitimate way is a very different thing fr~ ~pproving a plan It provides that they shall not apportion the territory m submitted to the commission, when .no com.m1sswner or no law which each shall do business. yer of the commission could tell just how that plan would work It provides that they shall not conspire to violate the provi_. out. If the Federal Trade Commission had done what certain sions of this act. business interests wanted it to, it would have been the same That is everything there is in it. These seven provisions are result as if Congress had repealed the Sherman Antitrust A~t. already the law. . . Ill the enforcement of which, when i ; was passed and now, was If there is anything in any of those seven proh~b1tlons to tended to be under· the Department of Justice. which any Senator objects. I shall be glad to hR\e h1m tell me M.r. SMOOT. :Mr. President, I suggest the absence of a now to what provision he objects. quorum. There is no provision in this bill to .fix prices . ~hie~ t~e The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. WELLER in the chair). packers may charge. There is not a. smgle pr?VlSlOn m. ~t The Secretary will call the roll. which would enable the Government to mterfere with the legiti Tile Assistant Secretary called the roll, and the following mate initiative and activity of a packer in any field. There is ·Senators answered to their names: not a solitary provision in this bill which woulq_ .enable. the Ashurst Broussard Caraway Elkins Government to take away from the packer any legitimate r1ght Ball Bursum Curtis Fernald Borah Calder Dial Fletcher he now has, and, as I said, I seriously doubt if. ~ere is any Brandegee Capper Dillingham Frelinghuysen provision in it which is not already covered by e.:nstmg law. 2612 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUNE 15, The first objection to the bill is one of definitions. The Sen vorce themselves from the stockyards unless the time be ex ator from New York [l\1r. WADSWORTH] objects to some of the tended by the Secretary of Agriculture. It provides that the definitions. He objects to the definition of live-stock products method of doing business by the owners of the stockyards and which he sa\s would enable the Government .to follow the by by the agents who buy or sell live stock in the yards shall be products thr~ough all the ramifications of industry and business regulated; that their practices shall be fair; that they shall not wherever the products of a packer should go, as :ne shoe busi conspire to injure any one seller or the section from which that ness, the clothing business, ar monof}Oliz.e or control markets. That far a:nd no further the and innumerable other things that go=- to make up the carcass. Go--;"ernmeut ask£. them to submit to Government regulation, This bill' undertalkes' to sa·y: that so long as those by-products Returning to the. section dealing with defiil.ition, I realize shall be · the• property of the packer he. shall make the same that if we accept the fu·st. amendment suggested by the Senator entries and disclosures affecting them as he dues with regard from New York [Mr. ·wADSWORTH] and strike out of the defini· to meat prod.uets. Why sltould he not do so? 'Ve are not tion of live-stock products the extension to the by-products, tha.t trying to fix the price at which the meat shall sell ; we are po. ·sibly section 16 would require the packer to reveal what he not trying: to fix, the price at whicb he may buy live stock; but did with those by-products; but if it does that, it does not. re we a:re trying to devise a system of accounting.. and of reports lieve the packer of a single liability then, and therefore· no in order. th.at the ·public may know what the packer does with friend of the packer or enemy of the bill should seriously ob the animal WhiQh he buys. and that the pubiic may have some. ject to it in the manner in which it is now written. If section knowledge_of whether the prices are reasonable or unreason 16 requires the packeu to give to the Government all the infor able; whether he has been fair to the producer of live stock mation that would be required if the definition of "live-sto.ck· and to the consnm.ing.pubU.c: products " be kept in the bill,. as now worded, it would simply In order to know· that, we must know what the packer does. be a change of language and not a change of results, not a with everytl:i:ing which he buys from the stock raiser up to change of obligation, and therefor~ no improvement to the bilL the moment when. it ceases to. be his property. Whenever the No one need therefore seriously either support o:tr oppose the paclool." has· parted· company with the product, this bill parts bill on the-ground that the definiti~n goes too far or stops too companY' with it also, and can go no further. If· the packer· short if section 16, as contended by the. opponents of the bill, shall buy a steer and transfer all of its by-products to some requires the packer· to do the very thing he should be required subsidiary company at a pric6' whi.ch is . wholly inadequate, it to do if we-leave the definition as it now stands. may~ seem that the price- tha:t: be. receives_ for the m~at is en The Senator from New York further opposed the bill because tirely reasonable, in view of what he paid fm· the li1e steer, but the word "trader'' app-ears in it; in one breath he stated that in good faith .if we:· k.ne;w what he did with all the by-products that would require every live-stock dealer e-verywhere who and what he received. fou them, thfr fact might be disclosed that bought a cow from a farmer, in Ol'der to ship it to the- market, he had reaped an unrighteous profit. to be regulated by the Government and to have a license.; and The Senator from New York said that if· we retained the in the next breath he said that the trader performed no services definition contained in the bill, we,·could. go· out and• investigate and that no one was included in the bill except some- one who the, man: who_bought the wool from the sheep and made clothes perfo.rmed a servi~. In other words, the " trader " was in the out of it, and the. man who acquired the hides and made shoes bill for the purpose of making enemies for the bill, and was out out of them ; but the definition prevents· that. It says tlmt under the definition, in order to weaken the bill among its wheneYer th-e product shall cease to. be the property of the friends. Such an argument may not be exactly playing· with packer., _th-en the bill has• no further· concern with it. As the terms, but that is the impression r gathered. . Senator from Flo-rida will remember, the. Senator- from ~ew' The next serious argument urged by the · Senator from· New· York, in urging. his objection to the· definition and to reposing York [l\1r. WADSWORTH] against the bill was that the control in Congress . the . right to ascertain from the packer what he r~ of the stockyards was beyond the power of Congress; that if ceived · for the hides . an.d other by-products, said that under they were ,PUblic utilities a-t· all, they were solely within the section 16, which required the packer to make full diselosures control of the States. I do not think so. I can not conceive and not to avail himself of any deceptive practices and ·to make' that since the Supreme Court has said that the sale of live no false. entries,.he would have to dis;close wl1at be· did with the stock in transit in stockyards is an act of interstate commerce, by-products anyway. Then, I am curious to know· why the< to say that the instrumentality by. which that act is accom Senator· should object to having. it written. into ·the law instead plished is beyond the control of Congress because it is not an of having it promulgated by regulation, if the result is~ to be ab instrumentality of commerce. In other words, the act itself' solutely the same. is interstate commerce, and therefore within the control of Con I am rather satigfied that the Senator from New York . gress, but the instrumentality through which the act is per thought· there· must be some diffe:rence; o1~ he· would:: not hav8' form-ed is without the scope of·interstate commerce and without objected; but I ca-n .. not see, if we. are to have any regulation the power of Congress-to regulate. That the instrumentality.....:. at all, why. w·e· sh-ould not know· accurately, instead of having· the thing that is used to accomplish the sale-could be without only partial information, and' we can have no Mcurate ·informa while· the sale was '-vi thin interstate commerce seems to . me to tion unless we know what•the packer does "With the. by-products· be. an impossible conclusion. as. well as what he. does with the meat products. I think I can not conceiYe that an act may be within interstate com- therefore, that the definition ought to stand. ' ' merce, and therefore subject to congressional regulation, when In conclusion, I repeat I am not· in· symp_atby with Govern the instrumentality by which the~ act is performed is without m€nt" o~vnership of' business; and not· much in sympathy with interstate commerce and beyond the pow€r of Congress to regu Government regulation of private business; but whet·e a few late. When one can not take place without the other, when men like the great packing concerm can, as they have done the instrument is essential to the act, and' the act is within lay the-ir hands on a nation's food supply, and thereby deere~ interstate commerce and within the. power of Congress to regu lif~ or death to men, women, and children who must eat if late, it appears-to me that the instrument by which it is-accom· th€y shall liYe. I unhesitatingly vote to give to our Govern pUshed, and with.out which. it could not be accomplished at all; ment the power to compel these people, the packers, to deal is within interstate commerce and therefore within the power fairly with tbe raisers of liYe· stoek and all the other people of Congress to regulate. who consume ,meat. If· they are·unwilling to be fair', we must 1\fr. FLETCHER. Mr. President, if I may interrupt the Sena make them become so. If they are fair in their practices, this tor for just a moment with regard to one of the positions,taken bill will not hurt them. I shall vote for· the S~nate bill. by the SenatOT from New York in desiring to limit the term Mr. KENDRICK. Mr. President, I have spoken once or twice " liv~-stock products " to those products that are used for food, previously on measures similar to the one now pending and had I desire to ask does the Senator from Arkansas understand that hoped to avoid taking any part in the discussion at this time. the bill now includes regulation as to other products as well as· It occurs to me that we have held hearings on this bill sufficient hides and bones and products o:f that- sort? to satisf"Y every phase of the industry and have discu~sed the The Senator from New York, as I gathered, sought to add measme so fully that there should be no chance for any doubt after· the words " live stock," as found on page 30, line 9, the in the mind qf anyone who was actually seeking~ for informa words "used for food." His argument was that it would be tion. So I had thought that no further discussion was neces very unwise- to undertake to regulate the disposition and sary, but· some statements have recently been made here that handling and trading in hiU.es and bones and products of that I can not allow to go unchallenged. kind. I thought perhaps there was- some force in his argu There has been entirely too much of a disposition throughout ment in favo1• of limiting the- term " li-v-e-stock products" to the discussion of this bill to minimize the extent of the demand those products which are used for food. I should like to for the legislation and to criticize those who propose it. That hear the views of the Senator from Arkansas on that question. situation impresses me as having some relation to the olcl story . Mr. CARAWAY. I desire to answer the Senator in this way: of the lawyer with the bad case who abuses the witnesses. .As The only thing the pending measure seeks to do is to ascertain a matter of fact, complaint and clamor against the method& em and to give publicity to the acts of the packer in order that ployed in OU.l" great- central markets began with the establish t11e public may· know whether the. packer is making a reasonable ment of those markets- and haTe continued from that day until or an unreasonable profit, and, of course, to restrain him from this. combinations and acts that hurt the producer and consumer of In connection with the live-stock market I may say here live-stock products. Possibly a third of the value of live stock as. suggesting to Senators a fact that is not generally known muy•be in what' is known as by-pJ.·oducts1 such as bides1 fertilizer, it was not known to me until recently-that the State of Cali·· .· 2614 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--SEN.A.TE. JUNE. 15, fon~in annually produces great quantities of meats, imports Two years' time was devoted to this in-vestigation; and I thou ~ ands of head of life stock, matures them, and then, I be omitted to say that the members of that committee were men of lieYe, e:-.-ports considerable quantities ; bu.t llP to this time those national reputation. There \vas Senator Cullom, of Illinois; wl~ o lJandle liYe stock and liye-stock products in that State have Senator l\Ianderson, of Nebraska; Senator PJumb, of Kansas; persistently refused to have any centralized market within the Senator Coke, of Texas; and Senator Vest, of l\1issouri. Those borde1·s of California, ·and there is, I understand, but little five Senators, after an exhaustive study covering a period of criticism of the market situation there on that account. A very two rears, reported to the Senate in part as follows: different condition prevails, however, in the 1est of the ceuntry, The overwhelming weight of testimony from witnesses of the high wl::cre the central-market system has been built up, and, as was est character, and ft·om all parts of the West, is to the effect that cattle poiuted out yesterday, one of the important outstanding facts owners going with their cattle to the Chicago and Kansas City mat·kets find no competition among buyers, and if they refuse to take the first is that the producers of live stock have no other place to sell bid are generally forced to accept a lower one. This testimony comes theii' stock. from representative men, not emotional or prejudiced, but con ervativc One Senator in speaking upon ·this question made the state and intelligent observers of whose sincerity there can be no suspicion. . That the same parties, or their agents, combined and confederated in ment that agitation for legislation-similar to that now pending other matters of like character is beyond Question: began 33 years ago. He is right in · that, but I do not recall First. It is admitted that they eombined to fix the price of beef to the purchaser and consumer, so as to keep up the cost in their own whether at that time he indicated that that agitation began interest. . • in the United States Senate, and as a result of it a resolution Second. It is admitted that they have an agreement not to interfere was introduced, a copy of which I shall take the liberty of with each other in certain markets and localities in the sale of their reading to the Senate. meat. Third. It is proved beyond doubt that they acted togethet~ in sup 1\Ir. FLETCHER. Mr. President, may I interrupt the Sena plying meat to the Soldiers' Ilome at Ilampton, Va., the National Hos tor for just a moment before the Senator reads the resolution to pital for the Insane, and other public institutions at Washington, -D. C.• which he has referred. the bid for the contracts being made by one, and the meats being then supplied by ench of the dressed-beef men alternately tor stated periods. The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. L.ADD in the chair). Does Fourth. They combined in opening shops and underselling the the Senator from Wyoming yield to the Senator from Florida? butchers of cattle at Detroit and other places in Michigan and at Mr. KENDRICK. I yield. Pitt burgh, Pa., in order to fot·ce them to buy dressed meat. ! CO'NGRESSIONAL RECORD-· SENATE. JUNE 15 2616 ' Mr. KENDRICK. He buys generally from the commission in the market. I believe that the criticism would ha1e occmTed men. But as a rule, as I understand it, he can either sell if every transaction in the yards had been conducted with abso through a commission firm or he can sell direct to the man who lute integrity, because of the inequality between the man who is in the country, and who is a feeder. I believe there is no has to sell and the mari who does not ha1e to buy, which I have regulation in the yards which prohib~ts a man who comes from already pointed out. the country from buying from these scalpers and traders. But · Mr. SIMMONS. The bad practices that are set out in those I am not so sure as to a regulation which prohibits a man findings were the practices of which the public complained 33 coming and buying on his own account ·from the regular com years ago. mission firms. I am not quite sure on that point. Mr. KENDRICK. That is true. . 1\fr. IDTOHCOOK. This bill, then, regulates the packers, who l\.fr. SIMMONS. Now, in recent years we Jlave had a similar buy 75 per cent of what is brought to market, and it also regu-. investigation of the packers by the Federal Trade Commission. lates the commission men? I will ask the Senator if they did not find, as a result of that 1\Ir. KENDRICK. And the commission men. investigation, the existence of practically the same objectionable l\i.r. IDTCHOOCK. And it also regulates the traders? practices that had existed at the time of the first inYestigation l\Ir. h.""E:XDRICK. It regulates the scalpers and traders, as to which I have referred? they ar~ known. It also goes far enough to provide for satis Mr. KENDRICK. That is a public record. The two findings factory yard facilities, and gives authority to fix the rates of are in many respects paralleL As I stated before, the inequality charges, for instance, the price of feed, and the rates for is one reason, and there is the further fact that every time there yardage. has been an investigation it has been shown that there bas been There is a law on the ~tatute books of Canada quite similar to this. It does not go quite as far, I believe, as this proposes too much ground for the statement that there were unfair to go. It has not ad>ersely affected the live-stock indust.ry practices in the yards. there. It has benefited it, I am told by reliable men who had Mr. Sil\11\:IONS. So that we have had two investigations .about to do with it and had experience with it. In diseussing the 30 years apart that have found that those practices existed, and matter with me a short time ago, the minister of agriculture it is to be presumed they continued all during those years. The of Canada said that the law had proven most beneficiaL Almost pending legislation is tlle first effort on the part of Congress as soon as the coneentrated markets were established the demand to take concrete action to put an end to those practices, is it not? for supervision arose, .and Canada proceeded without delay to Mr. KENDRICK. That is exactly the situation. pass legislation, and, as tbe minister informed me, there has l\lr. SIMMONS. That is what this leg'lslation means. been but very little discussion of the matter from that day until l\lr. KEl\TDRICK. That is true. the present time. Mr. Sil\IMONS. It is an effort on the part of Congress to stop 1\Ir. SIMMONS. l\1.r. President, I would like to ask the Sen- the agitation and to . apply a remedy to practices that were ator if there are a great many of these commis ion men? found to exist. Mr. KENDRICK. Yes; they are called commission firms. l\lr. KENDRICK. Yes; that is correct. l\Ir. Sil\lMONS. There are a great many of them? l\Ir. NORRIS. Mr. President, may I interrupt the Seuator Mr. KENDRICK. Yes. from Wyoming? :Mr_ SIMMONS. Do they sell at private sale always? l\1r. KENDRICK. Certainly. 1\.fr. KENDRICK. They sell th-e stock that is ·shipped to Mr. NORRIS. I should like to make a request of the Senate. them. I think it is not considered good ethics among them to It is quite apparent to me that there will probably be some trade on their own account; although I want to make it clear Senators who will wish to speak on the bill and who will not that I am not sure of that. They hold aloof from doing that, be able to do so unless provision is made to accommodate them. and they act only as agents of other people who consign to I have been reque ted to ask that we have an evening session. them. They will sell to indi\iduals or to the packers or anyone We can have an understanding, if it is agreeable, that at 5 . else. o'clock we shall take a recess until 8 o'clock and that at the l\fr. Sil\f.MONS. They do not sell the stock at auction? evening session it will be understood th.at there will be no vote l'r!r. KE...~RIOK. Ob, no. taken on any propo ition. Would there be objection from any Mr. SIMMONS. They are private sales? one to taking that course? 1\Ir. KENDRICK. They are entirely prh·ate sale , in the 1\fr. STERLING. l should like to ask the Senator from Ne alleys of the yards as they go and come. braska if there .are Senators who would take advantage of the 1\fr. SIM1\10NS. The Senutor said a little while ago that opportunity and speak this evening? one of these commission men would act at one time for the Mr. NORRIS. Yes; I do not think there is :any doubt about seller and at another time he would act for the buyer. that. At least I should like to give them the opportunity to l\lr. KENDRICK. Yes; tbat is to say, he would sell cattle speak. I ask unanimous consent that at 5 o'clock the Senate shipped in to him from sonie one outside of the yard, and in shall take a recess until 8 o'clock this evening, -and that at the that way act as an agent in disposing of the .cattle. Another evening · session there shall be no vote taken upon the bill or day he would take an order for cattle and go out in the yards any amendment to it. and buy thefll for one of his patrons. 1\fr. UNDERWOOD. Will the Senator say that there shall Mr. SIMMONS. Is there any compl.aint that the commission be no business transacted at the e\ening session -except debate . men did, at the same time or occasionally in connection with the upon this bill? same transaction, act as agents for both the seller and the buyer? 1\Ir. NORRIS. I am willing to do that. l\1r . .KENDRICK. There has been contention of that kind Mr. SMOOT. I should like to ask the ~nator from Ne and there has been contention that they have acted in collusion braska what necessity there is fo1· holding aD evening ession? with the scalpers and traders in the yards. Therefore those who Mr. NORRIS. I am z.·ather inclined to believe that unless have had the bill under eonsideration have thought it wise to we clo so there will be Senators disappointed to-morrow. We include the traders, of course, as one of th.e market agencies. will only have two hours to-morrow for debate. That explams why they are included in the provisions of the M.r. Sil\11.\IONS. I wish to suggest to the Senator that I bilL believe he would get better results if we would continue on 1\lr. SIMMONS. 'Ihe Senator has read to the Senate tbe find until 7 or 8 o'clock without taking a recess than to rece at ings of a committee of very distinguished .Senators, .made about 5 o'clock and come back at 8 o'clock, because I veTy much 33 years ago. fear we will not have many Senators here at 8 o'clock. Mr. BRAl'iDEGEE. Will the Senator from North Carolina Mr. NORRIS. I wish to say to the Senator that I was told plea e speak a little louder, so that we maF hear him on tltis a few moments ago that one Senator, who has to lea...-e the side of the aisle? Senate Chamber now within a few minutes, will be able to be l\fr. SIMMONS. I said that the Senator from Wyoming has here this evening, and he desires to speak on the pending bill. read to the Sentlte the findine,oos of the committee of five very 1\fr. BR... <\NDEGEE. If there are Senators who desire to disti14,onis.hed Senators appointed by this body to make an in Slleak and are ·willing ·to speak to-night, I can see no objec'i:ion vestigation into the packers' transactions. Those findings whatever on the part of uuy Senator who may not vd.sh to specifr certain objectionable practices '\\"hich existed at that rome here himself. ·we can let the other 8enntors come here time--some 33 years ago. I presume those investigations were if no uusiness is to be tran. acted and no Yote taken. the result of complaints that we1·e made against the packers at 1\Ir. NORRIS. I will submit my l'equest unles some one that time? objects. Mr. KENDRICK. They undoubtedly were. I will say to the Mr. Sll\fl\fONS. After conference with the Senator from Senator, if he will pardon a personal reference, that I do p.ot re Iowa [Mr. KEl\"YON] I withdl·aw the suggestion I made. call the time since I was a young man on the range when there Mr. NORRIS. l\ly request is that the Senate, at 5 o'clock., was not criticism of the cond!t!ons under. which stock was sold take a recess until 8 o'clock thL enming, · and that no business 1921. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2617 shall be transacted at the evening session, except debate on While it may not be necessary, I think I had better ask leave the pending measure. to print in the RECORD some figures taken from the Natjonal The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator from Nebraska asks Provisioner, and given by Mr. McLAuGHLIN of Nebraska in the unanimous consent that at 5 o'clock the· Senate shall take a House of Representatives the other day and printed in the recess until 8 o'clock, with the under.standing that after 8 RECORD at that time in the form of a table, showing that while o'clock no business shall be transacted, but that debate will the price to the producer was reduced, the price to the consumer proceed on the pending bill. Is there objection? was at the same time increased. I ask unanimous consent for Mr. CURTIS. And there is to be no vote on any amendment permission to print that again in the RECORD. at the evening session? The VICE PRESIDENT. Without objection, it is so ordered. :Mr. NOR;R.IS. None. The matter referred to is as follows: The VICE PRESIDENT. And that no vote shall be taken Comparison between whole-~ale ptices fi,;st week in February, 1916, and upon the bill or any amendments thereto at the evening session. second weelc in ApriZ, 19U. Is there objection? The Chair hears none, and it is so CARCASS BEEF, CHICAGO. ordered. February, April, Mr. NORRIS. I wish to submit another unanimous-consent Advance. Per cent. request, if the Senator from Wyoming will permit me in his 1916. 1921. time. ------·1------l\lr. KENDRICK. I yield to the Senator from Nebraska. Prime native steers...... $14.50 $18.00 $3.50 24.2 Mr. NORRIS. I wish to ask, though we may have an under Good native steers...... 13.75 16.50 2. 75 ~ Mediumsteers...... 12.50 15.00 2.50 ~ standing without having unanimous consent, that at the session Heifers...... 10.50 14.50 4.00 38.1 to-morrow from 11 o'clock to 1 the time be equally divided Cows...... 9.75 12.50 2. 75 28.2 between those who are in favor of the bill and those who Choice hindquarters •...••••..... _...... 16. 00 '25.00 9.00 56.2 oppose it. It seems to me that that ought to be understood Choice forequarters ... _...... • • • . • . . 11. 00 13.00 2.00 18.2 anyway, so that one Senator will not get recognition and take up all the time. BEEF CUTS, CHICAGO. Mr. SMOOT. I will ask the Senator from Nebraska to with Steer loins No. 1...... ___ .... . $24.00 $32.00 $8.00 33.3 hold that request far a moment. Steer loins No. 2 ••...•.•.••..•...•••.••••. 18:00 30.00 12.00 66.7 :Mr. CURTIS. The Senator from Illinois [Mr. McCoRMICK] Short steer loins No. 1...... 31.50 39.00 7.fiJ Z3.8 advised me a few moments ago that he wishes to be heard iu Short steer loins No. 2 ...• _•...... ••.. 24.00 36.00 12.00 50 Cow loins ...... 12.50 23.00 10. fiJ 8! the morning, and I think perhaps he ought to be here when the Cow short loins ...... _.••....•••...... 19.00 29.50 10.50 55."3 request is made. Steer loins ends (hips) ...... 18.00 28.00 10.00 55.5 Mr. NORRIS. I shall have to withdraw the request, of Cow loins ends (hips) ...... 14.00 19.00 5.00 35.7 Sirloin butts No. 3...... 14.50 28.00 13.50 93.1 course, because anyone can object; but it strikes me that it Strip loins No. 3 ...... _...... $12.0:> $22.00 $10.00 83.3 must be apparent to all Senators that it would not be fair-at Steer ribs No. 1...... 16.50 23.00 6.50 39.4 least I would not consider it fair, though I am not going to Steer ribs No. 2.• _.•....••... _.•••... _... . 15.00 21.00 6.00 40 Cow ribs No. I...... 13.00 20.00 7.00 53.8 talk to-morrow and I am not asking anything for myself-that Cow ribs No.2 ...... 12.00 18.00 6.00 50 some one Senator should be recognized by the Chair to-morrow· Cow ribs No.3 ...... 10.00 17.00 7.00 70 morning and take up all the time on either side. Rolls ...... 13.50 25.00 11.50 &5.2 Steer rounds No. I...... _...... 11.50 17.00 5.50 47.8 Mr. CURTIS. I do not wish to be put in the attitude of ob steer rounds No.2 ...... u. 00 16. ()() 5.00 - 45.4 jecting. I merely wanted to ·suggest to the Senator, in view Cow· rounds ...... 9.00 14.50 5.50 61.1 of the statement of the Senator from Illinois, that I thought Flank steak ...... 14.50 25.00 10.50 77 12.00 29.00 17.00 141.7 it fair he should be here when such a request is submitted. ~=~~~c~~-No: i·:.·:::: :~::~::: :: ::::~:: 9.50 11.00 1.50 15.8 Mr. NORRIS. Very well; I shall not press the suggestion. steer chucks No.2._ ..... _...... 9.00 9.00 """i.'25" Mr. KE~l)RICK. I wish to assure the Senator from Nebraska Cow chucks ...... 7. 75 9.00 16.1 Boneless chucks ...... _•.... 9.03 10.25 1.25 13.9 that I intend to occupy but v~ry little further time. Steer plates ...... 8.00 9.00 1.00 12.5 Mr. NORRIS. I do not wish the Senator from Wyoming to get 7.50 7.00 1,50 16.7 ~~~ jJ~~is.'. ·.::::::::::::::::::::::::: IO.OJ 20.00 10.00 100 the idea that I was trying to shut him off. I made the request Briskets No.2 ...... ·-...... 9.00 15.00 G.OO 66 now, and interrupted the Senator now, because there are Sena Shoulder clods ..... _..•.•.•... _...... 12.50 18.00 5.50 44.4 tors who wish to speak to-night who are compelled to leave the Steer navel ends ...... 7.00 5.50 11.50 121.4 Cow navel ends...... 6.50 4. 75 1 1.75 126.9 Chamber at this time, and I had to do j.t now or else not do it at Fore shanks ...... 6.50 7.'\1 .50 7. 7 all. There was no thought of curtailing the Senator from Hind shanks...... 5.50 6. ';() .50 9.1 Wyoming. I do not wish him to get any idea that I had that in 12.00 14.00 2.00 i6.6 mind. It was not in my mind, nor in the mind of anyone else. ~~~~~~~~~~::::::::. :::::::::::::: 8.50 11.00 2.50 29.4 The Senator has been a member of the committee and for more than two years has been investigating the subject, and I ·am EDffiLE BEEF OFFAL, CffiCAGO. sure there is no one here who wishes to curtail at all anything that he has to say. I hope he will continue until he has con Brains ...... l0.05i 10.10 W.OQ 90.5 Hearts...... 0.5! .05! .011 4. 4 cluded. Tongues ...... 17 .30 .13 76.5 1\fr. KENDRICK. I thank the Senator. I wish to say that Sweetbreads...... 19~ .28! .09 46.2 since coming to the Senate I have not offended by speaking over Oxtails...... 08! .0!}! .01 11.8 much. There is more than one reason for that. In the first .04~ .04 1,()()~ 111.1 ~~:: £~~ioomb:: :::::::::::::::::::::: .05-! .05 1.00~ 19 place, I have noticed that nearly every Senator speaks to empty Livers ...... 06 .10 .04 66.7 . seats, and in that event the only possible object he could have would be to speak to the people back home. If he considers that 1 Decline. a joke on the people at home, I am rather inclined to think that New York--Pacl~ers' whole.sale tcestern-beet prices per potmd. at times the joke is on the Senator, because the people at home WESTER~ DRESSED BEEF. are not very much inclined, as I have observed, to read what has been said here in Congress. I wish to give one more reason why this agitation has con tinued. As I have stated, the principal cause lies in the unequal ------1------conditions under which the man who sells in the yard and the Choice western heavy carcasses .... _..•... $0.11 $0.181 $0.07t 65.9 1nan who buys face each other. The next reason is that every Choice western light carcasses...... 10~ .17t .oat 64.3 time there has been an investigation of the subject it has been Common to fair Texas carcasses..•.•• _•... . 10 .16i .OQi 67.5 Good to choice heifer carcasses ...... 12 .17! .C5! 47.9 developed too plainly that there were crooked practices. A third Common to fair heifer carcasses·..•...... 10 .171 .07! 72.5 mason I find is the fact that during nearly every decade in Choice cow carcasses ...... •...•.... .10 .15! .05i 55.0 Common to fair cow carcasses ..••• _...... 09~ .14.} .05 51.6 ' the last 40 years the live-stock growers have met financial ruin .12 and disaster, and while that was going on we have seen an ac Fleshy bologna bull carcasses ...•.•...... 10! . 01~ 18.5 cumulation of $550,000,000, I believe, according to the records, in the hands of the five large packing corporations. I submit, WESTERN BEEF CUTS. whether or not that accumulation was made by unfair practices, No.1 ribs ...... 10.16 $0.25 $0.09 56.2 that there is too much reason to believe that these houses can No. 2ribs ...... 14; .17 .02; 17.2 practically control the price paid to the producer, on the one No. 3ribs...... 12 1,()()! 14.0 No.lloins ...... ·}~i .29 .13 81.2 hand, and on the other, at least materially affect the price to No. 2loins ...... lq .20 .051 37.9 the consumer. No. 3loins...... 12 .12! .()0! 4.2 2618 CONGRESSIONAL R-ECORD-SE1JATE. JUNE 15, New York--Packm·s' wholesille westen~-beef pric-es ver pottncl.-Oontd. New York-Packers' 'IVholcsale tvestern pork p ri Fe~r:.ry, tJ>z1_I, Advance. Per eent. No.1 hinds and ribs ...... 1{).15 $0."24 . 0.00 ~ ~ Fresh pork loins, western ...... ro.I4 $0.'27 $0.13 '9'2.8 No. 2hindsand ribs ...... 13 .22l .09~ .38. Fresh pork tenderloins...... ·-...•...•.... .25 .00 .35 ' 140 No.3 hinds and ribs ...... 12 .19 .07 _3 ~z~ pork t~derloins ...... _...... _. .22 .60 .38 172.7 .11 .15 .()4 36 4 No. 1 rounds ...... 12 .1fij .()4.~ 37.5 .11~ .01 No. 2 rounds ...... iO! .13 .19i .061 ~-1 No.3 rounds ...... • ...... 09t .11 .01! .15 .26 .11 73.3 No. 1 chucks ...... 10 .12 .02 .Ill .14 .03 26.1 No. 2chucks ...... 09 .08 1,01 111.1~: ~ J!:p~fe~·:·:·~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ No. 3 chucks ...... 08! .06 1.ro} l29.4 SMOKED CUTS • .IIDIDLE BEEF OFFAL. Smoked hams, 12 pounds average ...... $0.16 $0.28; 10.1~ 7&.1 Smoked hams, 12-14 pounds average .... . Fresh steer tongues trimmed ...•...... 10.12i $0.30 144.9 .16~ .26! .10 60.6 118.2 Smoked picnics, light ... _...... 12 .IS, .03! '21.2 Sweetbreads...... 27; .60 Smoked picnics, heavy ...... Beef kidneys ...... 1"2 .16 33.3 .n; .lU .03 26.1 .20 66.7 Smoked shaulders ...... __ ...... 1~ .17~ .05 «! Bee! 1i vers ...... -- ... . . !2 Smoked bacon, rib in...... 15 Oxtails ...... _...... - ... . .09! .15 57.9 .24; .091 63.3 .Beef hearts ...... 07! .06 12();() lJeef rolls_ ...... ~ ...... 80 .22~ 125.{) A >erage of 1921 'OVer 1916, 52.9 per cent Beer tcnderlains ...... •...... 30 .50 66.7 Mr. KENDRICK. As another bit of history of the ~tock- lDecline. yards, and in the discn · ion of the -subject, I wish to read a letter sent to the Senate Whole dressed hogs...... ~- 101 $0.14 10.03f 36.6 ...... _ ...... prices at all. At the same time we all know that the prices at Pork loins ...... ___ ..... ·- .... .12~ ;2! .11! 92 ...... which the retail~rs are selling their meat products are v-ery Leaf lard ...... __ ... ,...... 10! .tO ...... $0.00} 4.8 little below what they were during war times. There has been Tenderloins __ ...... ·-...... 'Z3 .G5 .42 182.ti ...... • 09 .00~ 5.'9 ...... some reduction in retail prices, but it has not been at all com ~:Jt~r~~~ :. ·.:::::::: :.:::::::::::: :~U .14 mensurate with the reduction in the prices of the farmers' Hocks ..... _...... OS .1~ :~! :i:~ :::::::: :::::::: product. Trinlmings •... ·-...... • . . . • ...... OS .07! ...... 00! 8.2 Extra lean trimmings. . . • . • ...... 13 .13 Now, when we complain of the great disparity bet\Ye.en the Tails...... • ...... 07! :08 --·:oor .... 6:1" :::::::: ~::::::: price which the farmer gets and the price which the consumer Snouts...... 05 .'{).!! ...... -OO! 10 ha to pay th~ retailer, we are always told that the packers are .1)! .06 ... :~~- ---~~:~. :::::::: :::::::: not responsible for the difference; that it is due to pr<>:fiteering f~~~i~~~~::::::::::::::::::::: :~! .09 on the part of the retailers, and that, -so far as the gre.at packers Blade meat...... 09 .12 --·:03 .. '"33:3' :::::::: :::::::: are concerned, their prices, if not altogether reduced as much Check meat...... 08 .06 .05 --·:{)if 53.8 ... :~ .. ·---~-- as the prices of the farmers have been reduced, at any rate, in ~li~-;~~:~:::::::::::::::::::: :~i .0! .ool 14.3 ...... some reasonable proportion to the I'eduction which the farmer SkiiU1ed shoulders...... 10} .13 .02~ 23.8 ...... and stock raiser .has had to accept: Pork hearts...... • . . • ...... 06 .05 01 16 7 .00 .... ooi' .... 9... ' " Now, I ""ant to ask the Senator the question, Have the packers, .1'2 · · --·:oi" -----1:1 as a. matter of fact, reduced their charges for meat products i~~~~:!~~:::::::::::::::::::: :~: .09 --·:oar ... 63.'6...... anything like in proportion to the reduction that they have Brains...... 05~ .12 1 2 Backfat...... 10 .12 :8!1! ~' :::::::::::::::: foTced the farmers and the stock raisers of the country to take Hams...... 15~ .25 .09! 61.3 ...... • ..... for their product? Calas ...... _...... 10} .15 .rut 42. 9 ...... Mr. KENDRICK. Mr. President, in answer to the Senator, Bellies...... 14 . 18 6 .Qi 28. .. • .... • ...... I will call his attention to some of the figures in this table. ______....:...._ _ __: ___.:_ __.;.______Before doing so, however, I wish to ~xpress the belief that in Hanutactured porlv vrodt~c ts. all probability. the packers have reduced their prices more than the retailers have reduced the prices at which they have sold. Fe~~~~ry, 1~f· advance. ;J~a~~ Here I desire to say that there has been within the past few months, in spite of that fact, an effort on the part of the stock growers to induce a spirit of cooperation. That effort failed; Skinned hams ...... ~0.19~ ~0.34 t0.12 but the fact referred to by the Senator was really the origin Calas, 4-6 pounds average...... 111 .16 ~ .051 ~~:: Galas, 6-12_pounds average ...... 11 .1st .041 38.6 of the demand for ·regulatory legislation. There ha been a New Yorkshoulders,&-12poundsaverage. .13~ .lSi .05 37.0 great deal of talk within the past few months of cooperation Breakfast bacon, fancy ...... 23! .411 .17i Bacon, '3-4pounds average...... 16 -281 .12i ~g:~ between the producers and the -packers. The very purpose, the Re!o!ular boiled hams...... 24! .41 .16! 67.3 primary object, of this legislation, in my judgment, is to provide Boiled ca.las. _...... 18 .30 .12 66.7 a basis of under tanding between the man who produces live Cooked loin rolls ...... 28 .49 .21 Cooked rolled shoulders...... 18 .30 .12 ~:~ stock and the man who packs and prepares it; and until they reach that basis of understanding, there will be no opportunity for them to stand together, and thus eliminate the unneces a.ry SAUSAGE ITEMS, CIDCA.GO. costs between the packer and the consumer. Whenever they do come to understand each other better, and 1·each a basis on Columbia, cloth bologna. -...... ro. 10 $0.15~ $0. 05! 55. which they can agree, they can immediately cooperate; and, ~~~boi~~1~~~~~-r-~~~:::::::::::::: :~~ :~~ :~ :t,9 in my judgment, that action will do more for the country than l!rankfurters...... 12 .21 .09 75. anything that has ever been done .in promoting a sufficient and Minredsausage...... 11 .17! -06! 59.1 satisfactory food supply for the Nation. ~:i!c~~~~~;_a_~~·-::::::::::::::::::: :ia :i~~ :g f 1921. CONG:RESS.I0WAL RECORID-SE'NA'FEl. 2619 because there would be an increased consl.unption.~ W.itllin. 3. Here is the important part of the communication, to which I short time the railroad reduc-ed the prita of the heefsteaR to e.aJl the attention. of Senators: $L25, and tbe steward of the dining, cax: told thia friend of Legislation is n-eeded: in order to prev.ent the poss.ibility of all abuses mine that immediately the quantity- of beefsteak reQuired for in. the future. If no, legislation. is passed, then the excellent results ac.crunpllshed by the· work of this special committee will. endure only so making a trip was doubled; that originally they were· seliihg · long-- as the memory· o~ ttie committee's· work is fresti and a recrudes 8 pounds of beefsteak during the course Gf a. :rouncl trip~ but cence of> the. abuse-s is- absolutely c-ertain. that as soon as the price was changed they required 16 pounds. I desire to say further, in reference to thfs proposed: legisla It becomes, from that very fact, obvious tfiat any unne~essaxy tion, that for tJiree--- years the members: of· the Committee on toll taken anywhere along the line between tfie I>Nducer: and the Agriculture and' Fol."es:try have studied this mattel! with dili consumer reduces c-onsumption tu that extent ; to that extent: gence, and fiave taken into their councils the very best legal injures the producer; and to that extent prevents the con advice· that the--y could1 get, with a view to preparing a bill that sumer from having a satisfactary supply of food. would meet the needs of" this situation, and that would' not in There is no doubt in the world but this questi.ou is- of such· any way disturb tire industry. There is not a provisioUI in this vital importance to all the people of the country that we c~n measure, so far as F know, that is meant in the \YU:Y of retalia no longer allow to continue conditions which provoke a clamor tion. Not punishment fur the packers but protection for the about the methods employed in the- handling of the food prod producer and the consumer is the- end we have· sought~ ucts of this great Natian. N.ot only this, but I dO. not believe that it can be shown by ~ take this occasion to say that the stock producers of the a close study of the bill that it vests anything like arbitrary United States, whether in the West or East, are the highest power in any official. Ther.e is one thing certain : It calls for class people in the country. They are the slowest. to complain,. nothing under·the sun but fair play. It calls for nothing except and in a thousand of them there wil.r not be found one roan. what every man in the stockyards or outside of the stockyards who is a boLshevist or who is not doing all be can to uphold the ought to be willing to· give: Undei' those conditions I am unable Government and the laws of the country. It is unfair and un to see how it wonltl affect ad'r.ensely any man within the con just longer to allow the present situation to continue. fines of· those yards' who was doing business on the square. The table to which the Senator has referred. waS' pre_senteu I ·feel so sanguine as: to the merits of this, legl-Slation, that I and printed in the RECORD by Repr_esentative McLa.uaHLIN of -will malre the statement now that i.:fl.this bill becomes a L.'lw Nebraska. In referring to it, Representative Mc:f.AuGHLIN it will be but a v.e1,y brie:t time until: the very market agencies pointed out that the table was taken from the National Pr:g~ which now oppose- it will boast that the markets in which they visioner, and ther_efo.re that there could be no doubt as to· its are doing business a-re supervised by th~ greatest Govel'nment correctness, as .be viewed it. Certaincy, at least, it was not p~eju-· on· the face of' the earth a& proving the abS'Olute integrity of diced. He took the record of prices where the ptices going their methods, down after the war met the pri<:es that were ad!Vancing l)revious, This- bill is intended. to- disclose the absence of any wrong to the war, so that they had gotten back to the same point. A.t doing as qui(!kly and as effectively as it discloses the existence that point he gave the figures showing the price which was pai{[ of evil practices. Under no conditions could such a. law fail tQ to the producer and the price charged the consumer. These fig be beneficial. ures show the percentages of the excess. I will give- the I assume· without any doubt that we are all agreed that the average. GOvernment should not undertake to conduct any line of busi The wholesale price at which the packers. sold their produc:tsl. ness, but J: think every senator within the sound of my voice as shown by these figures from the National Pr.ovisioner, ~as. will also agree that it is a legitimate function of government 52.G per cent higher in 1921 than in 1916, although. the pnces to- insist upon faiir play ih all lines of business, and that is all paid the producers at the two :Qeriods were the same. In other that this legislation proposes to do. words, in spite of the fact that in April, 1921, the packers were· Mr. l!JNDERWOOD. Mr. President-- buying live stock from the producers at the prewar values o:t The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. 1\lliCmrnEB in the chair). February, 1916, the prices at which the packers we.re wholesal· Does the Senator from Wyoming yield to the Senator from Ala ing to the retaile:rs were still more than 50 per cent greater. bama? than they were in 1916. The significance of this is enhanced Mr. KENIDRICK. I do. when it is considered that the packers· have alway.s. contended ID. TINDIDRWOQD. I do not like· to· intel'rupt the Senato:J:, that the price they pay for the live animal contributes 90 pe:t but he is looking at me and I . do· not want him to judge from cent of their cost of production. my silence that I consent to his statement. I ha:ve nut engage<.l Mr. SIMMONS. .As I understand the Senator, the figm:es are in this debate, but if the Gove~:nment of the· United States is given, at the point where the producer was receiving exactly g.aing into aU lines of business to mark out the road! r :·fair play what he r.eeeived before the war? there will not be much left o-r govennment or business either,. Mr. KENDRICK. Yes. in my judgment. 1\Ir. SIMMONS. And what was the a-verage when that point Mr. KENDRICK. That is the Senator's viewpoint. It is my was reached? judgment that in the case of this industry; at least, to which Mr. KENDRICK. I have not studied the figures, but Repre I have given the best years of my life, it will bring benefic-ent sentative McLAUGHLIN has taken an average of percentage.S~ results· to every pha-se of it; and I also assume to say here that The figures vary on diffeJ.·ent products., but on the average~ as I" the oniy substantial: difference between the law as- it stands have stated. the pac.ke.rs' wholesale prices wem 52.6 pe.r cent to-day and the la.w we are trying to enact iS' that this measure· greater in 1~21 than in 1916, while the producer was getting_ furnishes the machinery of enfoo:cement. I can_ not see fu•Ything exactly the same price he had received in 1916, showing, that else in it. Line after line of it is taken from laws. now on the. the retailer is not getting all of the difference. statute books. But suripose, for instance, that the laws stay Mr. SIMMONS. So that, while the farmer's product is at the there, as they have tor yesxs, without being enforced-; they do same price as it was- before the wa1~, tbe wholesale price of the not meet the needs of this industry. packer for. the same product is 52.6 per cent higher? Mr. UNDER\VOOD. 1\ir. President-- Mr. KENDRICK. Yes. The PRESIDL'TG OFFICER (l\lr. GooDING in the chair). To return, I want to quote from the communication from Does the Senator from Wyoming yield to the Senator from. Theodore Roosevelt, dated June 4, 1906, to the Congress of the Alabama?.. United States during the campaign for legislation to improve Mr. KENDRICK. I do. the sanitary conditions in the packing Qlants. Mr. UNDERW001). I want the Senator to understand that I read it because the same reasons which made Roosevelt my remru.'k a moment ago was not in reference to this bill. I believe that refor..m could not be accomplished without legisla realize that the Senator knows v.ery much more about this in tion should prompt us to believe that. the reform needed rrow· dustry and the effect of: this bill on it than I do. The Senator's likewise can not be secured without a Jaw req:uiring it: statement was general as to all business, and that is where I I transmit herewith the rep(lrt of Mr. James Bronson Reynolds and took issue with him. Of course, I recognize that the S€nator Commissioner Charles P. Neill, the special committee whom I appointed knows more about this- business than I do, because I know very to inve tigate into- the conditions m the stockyards- of Chicago and r eport. thereon to me. This report is. of a preliminary nature. I. submit little about this particular business. it to you now because it shows- the urgent need of.. immediate action. 'Mr. KE~"'DRICK. Yr. President, in view; of the fact that we by the Congress in the direction of providing a . drastic and thorough: ha.ve heard r-epeated over and over again here· not only the size going inspection by the Federal Government of the stockyards and. packing houses and· their products, so_ far as the la.tt-e.I:-enter- ini:o inten of this industry, the volume of the business, but its importance state or foreign· commerce. The conditions sho.wn by even this short to the Nation, it would see-m that every man who bas knowl inspection to. exist in the Chicago stock;yards are revolting. It is edge of this insistent agitation would see in it all the necessity imperatively necessary in the interest of heal.tb and decency that they should be radically changed. Unden the e:..'risting law it ia who:lly of taking some steps to correct abuses, and through such cor impossible to secure satisfactory results. * • * rection bring_ good understanding. 2620 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE. JuNE 15, Tbe effect of this legislation will not be revolutionary; there Mr. BRANDEGEE. It refers to services right in the next will not be the slightest disturbance of the present system of line, but it refers to both and all of them. They can fix- rnarketino-. On the one hand no legitimate agency will have Charges and rates to be observed by operators, and fair and reasonable anything "'whatsoever to fear from supervision under this ~ill. terms and conditions upon which the services of operators in commerce Complaints, to begin with, will be limited in number and as trme shall be rendered or performed. goes on will be followed with less and less frequency .. On the On page 30 an operator is defined to be- other hand, it is not presumable that market values Will be af Any person engaged in the business of ' conducting or operating a fected even slightly by supervision. It is believed that to estab stockyard in which live stock is handled in commerce, and any trader lish an authorized agency, speaking not for one branch, but for or commission .man or other person performing services wholly or all of the different branches of the industry, an agency that will partly in commerce with respect to live stock handled in ot· in con disclose the absence of wrongdoing as promptly as it will dis nection with a stockyard. cover unfair practices will greatly compel confidence wh~~e 1\fr. KENDRICK. My understanding of that is that it is there is now suspicion and distrust; it will eventually result m conditioned upon the same constitutional right to fix the rates good understanding where there is now misunderstanding. It to be charged by railroads or other public utilities for services is not expected that the bill will suspend the law o~ supply a~d to the public. demand· it is hoped it will make it more responstve. It will Mr. BRANDEGEE. I was not discussing the constitutional not int~rfere with the natural characteristic of barter and autholity of Congress to make the provision, although I think tratle · it is believed and hoped it will bring to the situation the it is quite questionable. I was simply referring to it in con whole~ome atmosphere of good faith and encomp3:ss it about nection with the Senator's statement; and I understand that ,vith the spirit of.good will that is too often absent under pres the distinction the Senator makes is that when he said it did ent conditions. not attempt to fix prices, be mea-nt the prices of the meat. It is but loo-ical to conclude that increased faith in the integ Mr. KENDRICK. The prices of the product handled. rity of the ma~kets will prove the strongest incentive to increased :Mr. BRANDEGEE. Of the live stock? production. The removal of distrust from ~he source of supply l\fr. KENDRICK. Yes. will immediately tend to increase consumptwn. Mr. BRANDEGEE. That explains it. But, l\~r. Presi Hitherto the Government has contented itself with the regula having made any such statement and having any such inten tion of the transportation system of the country and certain tion. The Senator asks me why I argue that Government things intimately _involved in that.' It has, under the power to inspection and control or regulation of this business will re J'egulate commerce, prevented certain articles deleterious to the sult disastrously to the business. I do not. I am arguing morals and health of the people from being transmitted over that it will probably hurt it. I do not claim that it will destroy i.lle railroads of the cotmtry, and the exercise of that power it, but I mean that it puts that business, of course, and when lw. ·been upheld by the courts, and I think wisely. it; is followed by other bills for other industries of the country, This bill, and the theory upon which it is framed, proposes it will put all the la.rge industries under the direction and con to extend the regulatory power of the Government into a busi trol of the ~overnment as to their practices, their methods of ne.ss which has hitherto been conducted in competition with its bookkeeping, and in many respects which have heretofore been rivals, free from governmental interference, It was, to be sure, left to the genius and the ability of the respective competitors like e\ery business and every citizen, subject to the Sher in that line of business. man antitrust law, and at any time w}J..en the Department of I do not know that it would be disastrous in the sense of Justice could go into court and prove that the business and being ruinous if the Government itself took possession of these tho~e conducting it were forming a monopoly or unduly re industries and ran them. I do not .know it; I suspect that it straining trade, they were subject to the penalties of the law would be very, very, harmful, in view of the instances of and could be enjoined and punished, Government mismanagement with which we are all familiar. That does not seem, however,to satisfy those who insist that But because we are <:>onfronted with it, are on the threshold more is necessary in the interest of the public. I am wondering of it, I am talking of the wisdom of the Government taking what the r-esult is going to be in the country if this legisla the first step which it has taken outside of the control of the tion shall be enacted. It seems to me that if it shall be transportation instrumentalities of interstate commerce itself, enacted there is no avoiding the conclusion that the Govern to wit, the great interstate railroads which are of themselves ment will be ultimately compelled, by public sentiment similar necessarily interstate commerce. to that said to demand this legislation, to place every other The Senator asks me why I am satisfied to let the Govern • large business under Government inspection, supervision, regula ment regulate the banks, and am doubtful about the wisdom of tion, and control, and I am wondering how the business of the too policy of regulating all business if it is big enough and is country will then be conducted, and whether the ultimate result interstate business. It seems to me the distinction is perfectly will be more satisfactory to the public than the preseflt plain. The Government does not regulate the State banks; th~ condition. Government 1•egulates the national banks. The Government in The business of raising and distributing wheat is a great, corporates the national banks; they are its creatures. Of basic, vital, fundamental industry in the country. Those en course, it must regulate them. They are intimately connected gaged in that industry have their troubles. The wheat grown with the governmental purpose of coining money and issuing by the farmer hn.s to be transported to the nearest depot, and bills of credit. It has to be done under Government supervision there shipped, consigned to a consignee at a place where there and under Government law. They owe their existence to acts is a grain elevator or a storage warehouse, and there it is sold of Congress. There is nobody else to supervise them except the and resold, ultimately shipped aboard cars, and distributed to Government. They are national banks. the mills, and from the mills to the jobber, from the jobber to Mr. President, I simply- desire to say that here is the first the retailer, and from the retailer to the consumer. :Many in step in the regulation of a private business. Every other busi justices, I have no doubt, are perpetrated in the course of those ness that is a business of any consequence at all in this country transactions, and I have no doubt that the people concerned in is interstate business. There is not a soup maker nor a sewing the intricate operations, commercial, banking, and transporta machine maker, nor a manufactory of pins and needles or nails. tion, which constitute the movement of that crop are more or and screws or bolts, or a sawmill that couL.l live for a minute less dissatisfied with each other and with the facilities fur on the business it does in the State where located. nished by each othet·. How long will it be before the Govern I will venture to say, without having any statistics to fortify ment will be asked to take control of the grain business of the the statement, that 90 per cent of the business of the country is country, and similarly of the coal business of the country, and interstate business. of many other businesses hitherto left to the competition of If that is all to be taken charge of by the Government and private individuals and private capital? a new bureau or a new commission in some department set to Of course, the provisions of the pending bill give the people prescribe rules and regulations, fix prices for services, say what in charge of the control, inspection, and the fixing of the rates, is fair and unfair, what practiees they can all indulge in, con and the decision upon the practices all the powers that the tinually asking for l'eports, and having inspectors in their fac Federal Trade Commission has in the way of investigation and tories and examiners to see that. they conform to the regula prosecution and put the courts at the service of the Secretary tions so fixed, and the whole thing left, as in this instance, to of Agriculture or of the commissioner in the department pro the Secretary of Agriculture, what will be the final outcome? vided for in the bill. How much will the Secretary of Agriculture h.11ow about this The things which the Government is empowered to do under matter? If anybody knows or has the slightest idea of the the bill in the way of prescribing the way the books of the duties of the Secretary of Agriculture now, he knows that he corporations shall be kept, the publicity measures involved, the can only give the scantest attention, and his province will be to control by inspectors, and inspection of every department of affix his signature when required to a set of rules and regula the business go a long way to take the conduct of the business tions that have been investigated and developed by some clerk out of the hands of those who have their money invested in it. or inspector to whom the whole thing has been delegated. A man can not conduct his business in the way he thinks is Those will be the men who will run the bus.ine~s. profitable to himself, even if he keeps within the law, and do it 1\fr. KING. 1\fr. President-- . ·ubject to somebody else's control in every respect all the time The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from Con and making public all his transactions. necticut yield to the Senator from Utah? Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. President-- Mr. BRANDEGEE. I yield. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from Con 1\fr. KING. I have not heard all the Senator lias said, I uecticut yield to the Senator from Nebraska? regret, having been called from the Chamber. The Senator just Mr. BRANDEGEE. I yield. commented upon the proposition that if the Government as Mr. HITCHCOCK. How does the Senator discriminate be sumed control it would have to take charge of these business tween this proposed regulation and inspection of stockyards and activities through agents. "'\\~e know that the agencies to be those who deal in them and the regulation and inspection which created now would be less intelligent, let me say, than some the Government exercises of some eight or ten thousand banks of those which existed during the war. We bad some of the of the country? Inspections are made of the banks and they best business men in the United States here looking after the are under the regulation of Government officials, and yet these coal operations and other business enterprises and yet both the thousands of banks have prospered under wise inspection and owners and the public complained of the ine:fficiency which regulation, which is in the interest of the people who do busi resulted from the governmental operation of tbose business ness with the ba.nks and generally of the community. Why activities. should we argue that a mere inspection and regulation of a Bow much worse will it be when we do not have the busi great business means its destruction, when we know, as a mat ness ability of those men, many of whom ha.d .given their lives ter of fact, that Government inspection and regulation in many to a particular line of business, which they were called here great lines of business has conduced to prosperity, development, to help administer. That is a phase it seems to me which ought and safety? to address itself to those who are advocating the policy of ~rr. BRANDEGEE1 Mr. ·President, the Senator hns asked a having the Government take over and operate private business. que. tion, and bas attributed a statement to me. I disavow Whatever the Government attempts to do it mars. \Vheriever ~622 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE. JUNE 15, it-attempts to coritrol business, it destroys it or its efficiency, Mr. WALSH of :Massachusetts. I think most of us are in and it -results in waste and inefficiency and extravagance. accord with tbe general· pr~ciple . of noninterference l>y tlle l\It·. BRANDEGEE. The Senator is correct. That is an im Go>ernment in the regulation of priv-ate business. -But I should portant element to be taken into consideration, but it will be like to· ask the Senator if he makes any distinction between the brushed right af;;ide as of no consequence. It goes without Government's duty· to inspect and regulate ' a· business dealing saying, it seems to me, that the class of men who will be found in a nonessential of life owned bY' private individuals aml ""hich a-vailable to the Secretary of Agriculture to be sent out to only manufactures and produces a small portion or part of the inspect this business and to give advice about it and formulate product: consumed and a business incorporated, under a charter rules and regulations will not be anything like the caliber of of the Government, for millions of dollars, c .1ling with a prime men who are in the business and know about it. · necessary of life and controlling the manufacture of practically l\Ir. HITCHCOCK. Possibly I have misunderstood the bill, the entire consumption? · · but I had s:upposed that the inspectors would merely be sent l\fr. BRANDEGE_E. I would make the distinction, of course, out to see that the acts of Congress with relation to this busi that there would not be nearly as mucll of wl1at the Senator ness are observed. from Wyoming [1\ir. KENDRICK] designated as ·clamor for the · 1\Ir. BRANDEGEE. Certainly; and that rules ·and regula Government to regulate a little bit of business which was not of tions prescribed by the department are observ-ed. much concern to the general public as there would be to regu 1\Ir. HITCHCOCK. They are not to attempt to run the late a big business. The Senator refers to a business incor business? porated by the Government. Of course, the bill proposes to l\Ir . .BRANDEGEE. Oh, no. regulate every person, firm, or corporation. · The form of the 1\.Ir. -HITCHCOCK. The fact of the matter is that if a busi business organization is immaterial, whether it is a partner ness is successfully regulated by the Government we have no ship or a State charter or what. demand to operate the business. It is only when Government Mr. WALSH of Massachusetts. I simply wished to know if regulation fails or when monopoly is developed that the de the Senator made a distinction between the two. mand arises to have the Government operate. I am not in 1\Ir. BRANDEGEE. No; I do not make a distinction in prin favor of Government operation and I am not in favor of Gov ciple. m·nment control. I simply take the position that when a busi 1\Ir. WALSH of Massachusetts. The Senator does not believe ness goes · so far that it affects the public · interest and has the Go-vernment bas any duty· to inspect or attempt to regulate passed beyond the conti·ol of the States to regulate, then it is a highly organized business controlling the price and output the duty of the National Government to regulate it in the of a prime necessity of life any more than it would the business public interest-not to destr-oy it. of a shoe cobbler? · What I was pointing out to the Senator a few moments ago 1\Ir. BRA...~DEGEE. I do not think the Senator ought to was that there are a number of instances in the United States make that statement about me; because I do think the Goveru in great business activities when regulation by the Federal mcnt has a right to regulate interstate commerce, no matter by Government has not interfered with the development of the whom conducted, but I say it will attempt to regulate, in all business whatever in any degree. 1 think that is true of the probability, the large businesses of the country. raiTroads. I think our railroads are a great deal better off at 1\fr. KING. l\Ir. President, may I interrupt the Senator? the present. time than if regulation had never been attempted, l\lr. BRAl~DEGEE. I yield. if railroad wrecking had been allowed to go on as it was 1\lr. KING. The Senator from Massachusetts speaks abo11t allo,-red to go on before the Interstate Commerce Commission those businesses which are engaged in producing the prime was selected. _ necessities. I have bad Reveral communications urging the in If the Senator believes that this is the control o! the packing troduction of a bill to regulate the shoe factories of the State industry or the control of the stockyards or the operation of from which the Senator comes upon the ground that the manu the industi~y or the stockyards by the Gov-erlllllent, I hope he facturers of shoes were producing n. prime necessity and were will explain what part of the bill he refers to. I understand charging extortionate prices. The writers feel that the Gov it is a mere inspection and regulation to carry out the will ernment ought to inspect and regulate. One communication of Congress. · which I received stated that th~ goods produced since the war Mr. BRANDEGEE. The Senator does not believe in conh·ol, have been inferior in quality to those produced prior to tlle but he believes in regulation. Tl1e terms are synonymous. war, and by reason of the failure to produce the same high What is the use of splitting hairs about that? If you give me grades of shoes that in the past were produced there should be authority to lny down a set of regulations and rules by 'vhich a not only inspection by the Federal Government, but there business shall be conducted, who is condueting the business, the should be regulation of the prices and regulation of the dis man who obeys the rules or the man who makes them? tribution. Of course, the Senator says that where State power fails If we are to begin the regulation of enterprises upon the to produce the results that are desired, his view is that the theory that they produce things essential for the life and wel United States Government should assume the business and do fare of the people, I see no place where we are going to stop; it. Two questions arise there. One is whether the Government I see no point where v1·e will draw the line. We are to have this has the power to do. it or not, and, secondly, whether it is wise bill followed by a bill to regulate the coal business, and I have that they should do it, whether we want to concentrate all_the been told that there is a bill in process of construction to regu power over all the business of the country and assume regula late the smelters of the United States. They are engaged in tion and control of it under rules and regulations prescribed in interstate ·commerce, and the contention is made that they are the various executive departments of the Government by un charging too much for smelting the ores, as the result of which known people, which rules and regulations are to hav-e the force the small producer is being driven out of business, and they of laws and for the violation of which men a1'e to be indicted want the Federal GoYernmerrt to appoint inspectors and to and sent to prison, whether we want to get that mass of power regulate the smelting charges. hidden behind the screen of an executive department and de I ask the Senator from Connecticut, where shall we draw the -veloped by anonymous people, in the end having only the rou line? tine signature of the Secretary appearing as approving of them. l\fr. BRANDEGEE. Tllere will not be any line clrawrr ex I say, be it wise or unwise, if the bill passes and this system cept-- of superrision autl regulation be put into operation in this pri Mr. WALSH of Massaclnu::etts. May I ask the Senator from vately conducted business, it will be invoked for e>ery business Connecticut to yield to• me until I reply to the Senator from in the country. It is important for the country that the com Utah? modities which are dealt 'vith in grocery stores should be hon Mr. BRANDEGEE. Certainly. estly produced and distributed without oppression, and that the l\Ir. ·wALSH of Massachusetts. I wisll to say to the Senator practices should be fair. The sugar industry developed to be from Utah that I do not know of any business that ought to quite nn important war measure, so much so that the Govern be regulated more than the boot and shoe busine s when it ment had to authorize agencies to go out and buy sugar in the becomes a monopoly, but the boot and shoe business is not a markets of the world. anu t~ey had to create a special board monopoly. Boots anu shoes in this country are manufactured to take care of that one commodity as a war measure. There in absolutely indepen(lent plants actively competing with each nre h1,mdreds of them. Every one of them is an absolute other in almost all the Northeastern and Central States. It necessity to the welfare of the people. The question is, Shall is one highly succe. sful industry that is not a monopoly. and the Government regulate them all here in the departments? the Senator can not name one boot and shoe manufacturing 1\Ir. WALSH of Massachusetts. 1\Ir. President, w·ill the Sena- establishment that assumes the proportion of a monopoly in tor yield? · this country, not one. I am frank to say that thei·e · is some 1\Ir. BRANDEGEE. Certainly. recent evidence of the possipility of the boot and shoe manu- 1921. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2623 facturing industry becoming a monopoly. Only within the last is no question about the power of Congress to regulate com month one of the lending manufacturing plants of Manchester, merce among the States-to regulate packing concerns in their N. H., and one in St. Louis, l\Io., combined into a very large transactions in interstate commerce. organization to control the output of a certain grade of boots 1\Ir. KENYON. That is true; but there might be a question, and ~hoes. If this goes on and this business becomes a in the regulation of commerce, of violating the fifth amend monopoly, it will be most regrettable. ment to the Constitution. In l\Iassuchusetts boots and shoes are manufactured to a 1\lr. BRANDEGEE. I hardly think so. Where Congress is very large. e:A'i:ent, and I would be the first to favor govern given plenary power to regulate a business the decisions have mental regulation and inspection of the boot and shoe manu gone to the extent almost of saying that it can pretty nearly be facturing industry if all the boot and shoe manufacturing prohibited. It can be regulated, of course, and absolutely pro plants in this country became combined under one capitaliza hibited if it is malum in se, like lottery tickets or uiseased tion and management, a gigantic trust that could without re meat. I do not think t'here is any question about the plenary straint control production and prices and stifie competition. power of Congress to regulate commerce among the States. l\1r. KING. May I make one observation? In connection with absolute power there is always r·aised . Mr. BRANDEGEE. I will surrender the floor to the two the question which kinds and portions of commerce are desired Senators. to be regulated and in what way it is desired to regulate them. Mr. KING. No; I do not desire to intrude upon the Senator's Those are questions of discretion and expediency, Our power time. is unlimited to regulate commerce. I do not doubt we can make l\11·. h.""'ENYON. I do not want the Senator to surrender the proper rules and regulations for the shipment of beef from floor, but I do want to ask his opinion concerning t11e very one State to another, from the ranch to the packer, and its interesting question which has been raised. distribution over the arteries of interstate commerce, but this. 1\Ir. BRANDEGEE. I yield to the Senator. bill goes into other features; it not only takes up this industry l\1r. KENYOX I do not want the floor. without taking up other industries and proceeds to regulate it Mr. BRAl\"DEGEE. I understand. I think the· others will follow, however-but it takes up ac 1\lr. KENYON. I ask the Senator if he has read the case of tivities about which I will not express a positive con1iction, the German Alliance Insurance Co. against Kansas, in Two but activities that seem to me not to fall within the provisions hundred and thirty-third United States? of the interstate commerce clause. Mr. BRANDEGEE. No. I think the Senator from New York [Mr. WADS WORTH] was Mr. KE~YON. I think the Senator should read it. entirely correct in the illustration which he used yesterday in Mr. BRANDEGEE. The Senator may read such portions as his remarks. I do not 'belie>e the stockyard, which is the he has in mind, if he cares to do so? resting place of the cattle after they get off the train before Mr. KENYON. It discusses the very question when a bust their sale and 1·eshipment and the place where they are feel ness, which is private in its nature, becomes eharged with a and watered, is an instrumentality of interstate commerce Ln public use. I believe that is the real question involved here. the way the cattle business is conducted, yet this bill assumes Every business in the country is not charged with a public use. to regulate the stockyards and the operators in the stockyards. Mr. BRANDEGEE. No. I do not believe we could do that lawfully under the Consti l\lr. KENYON. But a business may reach such proportions, tution any more than we could regulate the wages of the so affecting the public interest and the public welfare and the farmer's hired man because he hauls the wheat from the farm life of the Nation, that it may in law be charged with a public to the depot and ships it on the tr-ain, and the farmer intended use. from the beginning that the wheat should become an object The Supreme Court of the United States discuss that, and of interstate commerce. they take up the old case of Munn against the State of Illinois, It is shipped far up in Minnesota down to Duluth ; it takes the the famous elevator case, where it was held as to the State water and goes to Minneapolis and winds up as flour in New law providing that elevators were charged with a public use York. If the man who buys a steer in the stockyards or who that it was within the power of the public to make that de waters him or sells him, or if the operator of tbe stockyard is mand. I am not discussing the wisdom of it at alL The coul't an instrumentality of interstate commerce when the cattle are go back to that case, and I will read an extract from their not in process of transportation, then, as the logical outcome of opinion to the Senator. The court say: the doctrine, the farmer's man who loads the wagon on the farm The principle was expressed to be, quoting Lord Chief Justice Hal~, full of wheat to send it to be shipped in interstate commerce " tba t ~hen private property is ' a.trected with a public . interest ~ t can have his wages regulated by the Secretary of Agriculture ceases to be jm·is privati • only " a.nd it becomes " clothed With a public interest when used in a manner to make it of public consequence and under a bill yet to be drawn. affect the community at large" ; and, so using it, the owner "grants Mr. OVERMAN.- I have in my minu a decision with which, to the public an interest in that use, and must submit to be controUed perhaps, the Senator may be familiar, arising in New Hamp by the public for the common good." _ shire, a case against the United States, in which logs were car That was the language of the Munn case, which is cited with ried down by a farmer or forester and put on the station floor, approval in this opinion. The Supreme Court in this case, but were not actually shipped. The Supreme Court held that after reasoning in a way that may astound the Sel}ator-- that was not interstate commerce, because the log. had not been 1\lr. BRANDEGEE. I should not be at all surprised. put on the train. Mr. KENYON. And it is a comparatively late ease-held that l\1r. BRANDEGEE. No; they had not as yet entered into in insurance was so charged with a public us~; that it was a mat terstate commerce. ter of regulation by the government-not the Federal Govern l\1r. OVERMAN. No. ment, because insurance has been held not to be interstate 1\lr. BRANDEGEE. Let us say that one stage of the journey commerce. But the point I am making is that a business, of the cattle is finished. They were shipped from Wyoming to priYate in its nature, may be charged with a public use and be Chicago; they leave the train and they go to the cattle boarding subject to control without vjolating the fifth amendment to the house to rest overnight 01; for a week, and to be fed and watered, Constitution as to the taking of private property "without due and they are sold or bought by a trader, and sold a dozen times lU'ocess of law." back and forth, each trader shaving a commission out of the 1\fr. BRANDEGEE. That is no new doctrine, I will say to transaction. This bill regulates the commissions the traders the Senator. That \Yas well established before the court de are to charge when they sell cattle to each other in the stock cided that case. If a man in the transaction of his business yards, on the theory that the gambler who is sht1 ving u com holds himself out as catering to the public and inviting the mission on a steer is engaged in interstate commerce. trade of the public-acting like a common carrier, for in Now, let us see 'vhat a stockyard is. stance-he is estopped to deny the power of regulation and to The term "stockyard" means any place, establishment, or facility claim that he is solely in private business. A ferryman can put maintained and conducted at or in connection with a public market. bimself in the same position. That may be plain to those initiated in the trade and in this l\1r. KENYON. The Supreme Court practically held the same business, but it is not perfectly plain to me. If there is no thing just a few days ago in the rent case in the District of public market conducted in a stockyard or in connection with Columbia. it, i such a stockyard to be unregulated, while the stockyards Mr. BRANDEGEE. I do not deny it. where the cattle are sold, where there is a public market, are Mr. KENYON. Then, is it not, as a question of power, to be regulated by the Government? As I have said, it seems whether the packers, under the facts and circumstances as to me the Senator from Ne\l York was perfectly correct in his presented, are engaged in such a business as can be said to be analogy between the part that the stockyard plays in the charged with a public use? transportation of cattle and the part that the hotel or boarding Mr. BRANDEGEE. Yes; .but the Senator is not driven to house plays in the transportation of passengers in commerce invoke the doctrine of public use attaching to a business. There among the States. Congress has power to regulate the rates .- 2624 CONGRESSIONAL R.ECORD- SENATE. tlle railrGads sh:lil charge for passengers. A. passenger leaves 1\Ir. KENYON. Mr. PresitlE>nt, may I ask the Senator, with Washington, intending to go to Chicago. He may fu·st go to out disagreeing '"ith J1im on this hotel pl'oposition, because it i · New York. where he leaves the train, expecting to take a train interesting-- from New York to Chicago, which is run over a road different 1\Ir. BUANDEGEE. I will say that I wi. It \Ye did ha Ye a from that between Washington and New York. He goes to any right to regulate hotel pricE's. one of the thousand hotels in New York City to spend the Mr. KENYON. I wish we di A good deal has been said about the effect of the Interstate Now, if it had said that the commissioner, the courts, and all Commerce Commission's jurisdiction over the railroads of the persons heretofore subject to the act entitled "An act to create a COlmtry. I would not have the railroads run along as they were Federal Trade Commission " should have the same powers under running without Government regulation. I think it was legiti this act as were provided for in said act approved September 26, mate and 'Proper; and yet the fact is that it is not satisfactory. 1914, I could ha\e understood what it meant. I do not know that there is any satisfactory solution to the rail l\lr. NORRIS. Let me say again to the Senator that of road question and the troubles that the railroads are in ; but the course, in the first place, I am not the author of section 5. I situation is that the price of everything the railroads ha\e to found it in the bill as I introduced it. Like the Senator, when sell i fixed and determined by the Government, and the price I tried to study the bill and analyze its various parts, I reached of e\erything they are compelled to buy is fixed and deter the conclusion, first, that it was very doubtful what that section mined by the labor unions, the men who furnish the labor on _meant; but I think-and I came to this conclusion after I bad the roads, and the material men of whom the railroads have to studied it quite thoroughly-that it does in fact do what I said buy, and the directors managing the properties for the private before. The language is \ery clumsy. It ought to be made stockholders who har-e in\ested their money are trying, simply plain. I admit that. I agree with the Senator. acting within the rules laid down by the two sides to the con l\lr. BRANDEGEE. It could be redrafted and made per tr~er ·y to which I have referred, to ·make the roads prosperous fectly unquestionable. nnd earn a dindend upon the capital invested ; and it can not be l\ir. NORRIS. Yes. There ought to be no doubt about what done. It is not being don<>. They ha\e tried pretty hard. it means. It seems to me there might be some now; and if The remedy may be more regulation. I ·do not know ; I do not the amendment that I will offer is not agreed to, and the sec think so; but, as some Senator said here a few moments ago, tion is left as it is, I shall be very glad to have it amended and although e\ery nO\Y and then in the conduct of business, big and made plain. little, a rascal will turn up and betray his duty and ruin the Mr. STERLING. Mr. President, for the Senator from Illi property that he is in charge of, it is not the regular order nois [Mr. McCoRMICK], I present the amendments to the pend e\ery day. The fact that it is occasionally done in bu iness is ing bill which I send to the desk. I ask to have them printed hardly a sufficient reason for the Government to take O\er all and lie on the table. business, not having the courage to take it itself and pay for it,· The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. KE~DRICK in the chair) . but saying to those who are compelled to conduct it: "You Without objection, it will be so ordered. must conduct it according to the rules and regulations that I lay Mr. STERLING. Now, Mr. President, I desire to say a few down." It may be that all business will be more prosperous if words in regard to the pending bill. conducted under the rules and regulations prescribed by the in When the li\e stock commission bill was before the Senate at spectors and men that the departments will send out, but I the last session I submitted a substitute for it. I ha\e not been ·. doubt it. I do not believe it will be. able to get over the belief I then entertained, that there is no I want to call the attention of the Senator from Nebraska need whatever of creating a new commission for the purpose of to section 5 of the Senate bill. I do not think it is quite regulating the packing industry. I think, Mr. President, I shall coherent as it stands; at least, I am unable to understand it. be able to show that. We have been denouncing the creation I ask him to look at it "'ith some care and see if something of new commissions time out of mind. 'Ve have done it both ha. not been omitted. on the score of efficiency and on the score of economy in the l\1r. NORRIS. Mr. President, if the Senator will per public service, and yet here in this bill it is proposed to violate mit me- needlessly the very things for which we have stood when de l\lr. BRANDEGEE. Certainly. nouncing the creation of so many Government commission·. Mr. NORRIS. I ha\e thought a good deal about section 5, l\1r. President, what is the gist of this bill? I am going to so I will not have to look at it. I think I know what the read those parts of the bill which contain the restrictions and Senator means, and I was under a great deal of doubt about it the vrohibitions against the packing industry. They are found myself. It is necessarily difficult to unde~·stand, I think; but in section 12, and it is provided that: if the Senator will analyze it, I belie\e he will find that it It-shall be unlawful for any packer to-- means this: I think the fair meaning of the first part of it is (a) Engage in any unfair, or unjustly discriminatory practice or device in commerce, or in any deceptive practice or device to cheat or that it gives to the commissioner pronded for in the bill, ancl defraud in commerce; or also to the courts or anybody else, in the. Government or out (b) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any othe1· packer, ol' buy or of it, the same power, whatever it may be, either of a court othendse receive fron:i. or for any other packel·, any live s tock or liYe stock products for the purpose of apportioning the supply between any or of a commissioner, the same right if it be a defendant that such packers, or unreasonably affecting the price of or creating a i:; conferred by the Federal Trade Commission act upon the monopoly in the acquisition of buying, selling, or dealing in live stock Federal Trade Commission or upon anyone whose duty it or live-stock pl'oducts in commerce; or would be to administer that law or who might come under its (c) Engage or participate in any manner, either directly or indi rectly, in the business of purchasing, manufacturing, storing, or selling supenision. foodstuffs other than live-stock products, where the effect of such par I will say to the Senator that personally I do not like the tic).pation ~n such business may be substantially to lessen competition in or to restrain commerce or to tend to create a monopoly in com section. I had an amendment printed to-day that I expect to merce; or offer that strikes it out and inserts in lieu of it a simple state (d) Conspire, combine, agree, or arrange with any other packer to ment that nothing in the act shall be construed to take away apportion territory for carrying on business, or to apportion purchases any of the jurisdiction of the Federal Trade Commission. or sales of any live stock or live·stock p1·oducts, OL' to control pL·ices thereof in commerce ; or Further on in section 5 there is a provision that upon the taking (e) Conspire, coml>ine, agree, or arrange with any other pa-cker to effect of this act the jurisdiction of the Federal Trade Com engage in any course of business or to do any act for the purpose of mission as to all things provided for in this bill shall cease preventing any person from carrying on a competitive or simila1· busi excepting in cases where the President or the Secretary of v.ess in commerce ; Agriculture or either branch of Congress shall instruct the Then comes the common count: Federal Trade Commission to make an investigation. (f) Otherwise act, or conspire, combine, agree, or arrange with any other person to do or abet the doing of any act, contrary to the pro Mr. BRANDEGEE. I think that is perfectly plain; it is to visions of this act, or refuse, neglect, or fail to act, or conspire, co.n· me; but as to the other part, in order to make plain to the read bine, agree, or arrange with any other. person to refuse, neglect, or fail ers of the RECORD what I am talking about, I will read hastily to act in accordance with the provisions of this act. the first part of the section as it now reads. There is one more, subdivision (g), which I think is a repe Mr. NORRIS. I confess to having difficulty with it myself. tition pure and simple of the propositions contained in the other Mr. BRANDEGEE. It is unintelligible to me. I have read five provisions. For this reason I do not set it forth in the sub it three or four times. I could understand it on the theory that stitute I intend to offer. some phrase had been omitted which I could supply, I think; 1\lr. President, I agree with eyery other proposition set forth in but as it stands it is meaningless to me. these five prohibitions or restrictions against the packers, \nth SEC. 5. The commissioner, the courts, and all persons shall have the every one of them. Their business and their property are eame powers, rights, remedies, and duties with respect to all persons de\oted to a public use and charged with a public interest, ancl subject to investigation or regulation under this act. and heretofore sub they are engaged in interstate commerce. ject to the act entitled "An act to create a F ederal Trade Commission, to define its duties, and for other purposes," approved September 26, But, Mr. President, the question is as to whether we have 1914, and such persons hel'etofore subject to such act- not now already an organization which, by reason of its experi ence, by reason of the very purpose for which it was created, is There is no connection whatever between the two sentences I not the organization above all others to carry out tbe prohibi have just read. Something evidently has been omitted- tions and r estrictions I have just renll from the bilL and such persons hel'etofore subject to such act shall, except as other· l\1r. President, there is absolutely no need of any other organi wise provided in this act, have the sa me obligations, duties, liabilities, and rights as are conferred Ol' imposed by such act on the Federal Trade zation than the Federal Trade Commission to accomplish the Commission, the coul'ts, and such persons. purposes of this act. Why should the Government go to the 2626 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE.. JUNE 15, e::'!I pense o-f paying Jj;7,..50()· a year for a commission unde1r the mission for use in connection with their investiga:tiomJ of the D€partment of Agricruture? In the first plaee, Mr: President, packing indnstcy. I am opp d on principle to that. The House bill, as I under- This. is what they have produced! in the way of reports con tan{} :it, ma. all the alfalfa and corn he fed these steers, and a loss of seven 1\Ir. ~"'ORRIS. The Senator is speaking of farm organiza months' interest on $10,81o--a rather heavy penalty for having tions, and I desire to ask him, Is it not true that, as between contributed more than 40,000 pounds of additional beef to feed the Senate bill and the House bill, those organizations prefer his fellow countrymen. the Senate bill? Naturally, when stockmen lose so much money in raising, Mr. CAPPER. I think there is no doubt that that is true. feeding, and shipping meat animals, there are going to be They have so indicated to me. I· fewer such animals produced, and eventually ::neat is likely to Mr. NORRIS. The statement was made here the other day become scarcer and dearer for strictly legitimate reasons. This by some Senator in the debate that the farm organizations were time next year steaks in Washington may be costing $8 a in favor of the House bill. pound instead of $4, and quite possibly the producer will not be 1\Ir. CAPPER. · My information is-and I haT"e talked with receiving a satisfactory return even then for his labor and his the representatives of a number of those organizations here in feed and for interest on his investment. Washington-that they prefer the Senate bill. Some of them A farmer feeds a hog 7! bushels of corn to make 100 pounds have gone on record to that effect. I have yet to learn of a of pork, but he pays 1! bushels of corn for 1 pound of bacon. farm organization that is indicating a preference for the House For 5 pounds of wool, enough to make a " genuine " all-wool bill. suit, a farmer is now glad to get $1, but to buy such a suit of Mr. NORRIS. I think that statement was maue in reference clothes costs him 500 pounds of wool. to one of the farm organizations--perhaps the largest of all Last year a good pair of shoes could be bought with one cow the American Farm Bureau, of which Mr. Howard is the presi hide. To-day it takes five cowhides to get the shoes. dent. Has the Senator from Kansas talked with Mr. Howard, To buy his wife a pair of $10 shoes a Kansas farmer re the president of that organization? cently sold 25 bushels of corn for $7.50 and a big cowhide Mr. CAPPER. No; I have not. for $2. Then he had to pay 50 cents to boot to close the Mr. ~ORRIS. I should like to say to the Senator I have transaction. talked with Mr. Howard, and he has told me that he prefers If on a parity with the present price of corn, l\Ir. Rocke the Senate bill to the House bill. Before he came to Washing feller would sell gasoline for 8 cents a gallon instead of 24, ton, before I saw him, I had a telegram from him in which he the Coal Trust would sen a ton of coal for $3 instead of $13, stated the same thing. the clothier a $60 suit of clothes for $15, the shoe dealer a $10 Mr. CAPPER. There is no doubt that Mr. Howard peak for shoe for $3, the hatter a $5 hat for $2, and the Washington a very large portion of the agricultural community. market man would sell bacon at prewar prices instead of at Mr. NOR~IS. I confess that in making up my mind on the postwar prices, and American agriculture would not to-day be in matter I was not moved by what any organization thought; I need of the credit pulmotor. Corn should be and is worth formed my opinion from my own investigation; but I \Yas rather more if these things are worth what is asked for them. startled at that statement. Last year when corn was $1.50 a bushel a farmer could get I want to ask the Senator from Kansas if he has not found, in 5 gallons of gasoline for a single bushel. To-day, at the farm his conve1·sations with the representatives of the farm t>rganiza price, that bushel of corn only buys a little less t11an 2 gal tions, that one of the main reasons why those· organizations favor lons of gasoline. · the Senate bill as against the House biH is because the House Last year 6 bushels of corn would buy a ton of soft coal. bill in effect entirely takes away from the Federal Trade Com To-day that ton of coal costs 35 bushels of corn. mission all jurisdiction in connection witll inve tigations in Last year 40 bushels of corn would purchase a $60 suit of regard to packing products, and confers authority upon the Sec clothes. To-day it would take 125 bushels of corn to buy that retary of Agriculture to Ill'"ake such investigations, although it suit. Yet had clothing been reduced in price proportionately goes about as far as the Senate bill does in that respect? with corn, $60 suits of clothes would not take 36 bushels. Mr. CAPPER. I have heard that objection raised by a num Last year a bushel of corn would buy 3 pounds of coffee. ber of leading representatives of farm organizations. To-day it will buy only a little more than 1 pound. Mr. NORRIS. Has the Senator ever come in contact, either Last year 2! bushels of corn would purchase a 48-pound sack in conversation or through the medium of correspondence, with of flour. To-day it takes 5! bushels. any representative of any farm organization who was not strenu And so it goes, up and down the line. Whether prices rise ously objecting to any legislation in this bill or in any otl1er or fall, the farmer gets the worst of it. measure which would have the effect of taking away the jurisdic What is it going to profit us to keep 'knocking the farmer tion and the power of the Federal Trade Commission? down? How are we going to be clothed and fed when we l\1r. CAPPER. My observation is that generally the farm or finally have knocked him out completely? ·ganizations have confidence in the Federal Trade Commis ion The biggest problem, Mr. President, that confronts the Con and they would not want to see it crippied in any re pect. ' gress is to devise a plan by which through fair marketing con Mr. NORRIS. Now I should like to ask tlle Senator as to his ditions, an extinction of profiteering, a lowering of freight investigations concerning the attitude of the consumers' asso rates, and a rehabilitation of our foreign and domestic markets ciations. For instance, as to the very large consumers' organiza the producer may receive a fair return without the consumer tion represented by Florence Kelly, a woman who is known for being brutally victimized by the conscienceless purveyor of her ability and as a representative of the women of this coun bread, meat, and other food products. We should see, also, try all over the country-has the Senator had any conversa that in future adequate credit is provided for farmers through tion with her or has he heard from l1er in any way as between long-time and short-time loans, adapted fairly and practically these two bills-the Senate bill and the House bill? to the peculiar conditions of the farming business, to afford Mr. CAPPER. No; not as between the two bills; but I re farmers the same credit accommodations now afforded other member that she appeared before our committee last year, lines of business and that they may not be compelled to dump speaking for the National Consumers' League, I think the name their products on a glutted or demoralized market. of the organization is. Our people, I think, are beginning to see that we must put Mr. NORRIS. Yes; that is the name of the league. our former $80,000,000,000 farming industry on an equal footing Mr. CAPPER. At that time Miss Kelly very emphatically with the organized world of business and industry or be pre indorsed the bill which is now before the Senate. pared to suffer more and more from evil times when we should Mr. NORRIS. The Senate bill? be enjoying good times. So on the whole the situation now Mr. CAPPER. Yes; the Senate bill. seems very hopeful and encouragint,;. Mr. NORRIS. I wish to ask the Senator now, so far as tlle All history emphasizes that the downfall of every bygone consumers are concerned, particularly with reference to the civilization and nation was preceded by the breakC3wn of its National Consumers' League, whether they have not at all times agriculture. Eventually we pay and pay heavily for every and under a.ll circumst~nces objected to legislation that would shortsighted or wrong policy toward agriculture that we adopt, cripple the Federal Tra.de Commission? as well as for every farsighted agricultual policy we fail to Mr. CAPPER. I think they have. I llaye heard numerous adopt. This inevitably reacts on general business and national objections from representatives of that organization to such welfare. proposed legislation. To attain a newer and stronger national stability resting on a 1\Ir. NORRIS. The Senator knows that the House bill prac general and genuine prosperity for all the people, the farmers tically does absolutely take away the juri: diction of the l.Pederal of the land must have a square deal. That is all I ask. I ask Trade Commission. Has it eYer occnrred to the Senator that it for them in behalf of all. the taldng a way of the jurisdiction of the Federal 'rrarle- Com Mr. NORRIS. May I interrupt the Sel}.ator from Kansas? mission by the Honse bill will go e,·en further than it appears The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. KENYON in the chair) . to go on its face in this respect? Suppose they were investigat Does the Senator from Kansas yield to the Senator from. ing a charge of unfair competition which \Yas made by one Nebi·aska? clothing manufacturing concern a~ainst another a~ to clotLing Mr. CAPPER. I yiclu. made of wool or of which wool was a component part, would it 1921. OONGRESSION AL REOORD-·SENATE. 2629 not follow-, if the House bill were enacted into law, that- the resolution would start it. In the Senate bill, as I ha\e pointed l. Federal Trade Commission would be deprived even of jru·isdie- out once before, there is -the additional pt'Dvision that the com tion to investigate a cllarge of unfair competition between two missioner provided for can be removed by concurrent action of manufacturers of WDOlen clothing? the House of Repre entatives and the Senate without the Presi- 1\Ir. CAPPER. I should think that there would be very great dent, and the President can .remove him, on the other hand; so danger that that would follow. that it has that safeguard about it. As to that proposition if l\Ir. CURTIS. I should like to ask the Senator from Ne- the Senate bill were enacted, considering ·that one section alone· braska to point out the provisions of the House bill that will if we had a commissioner, for instance, who was not inclined t~ do anything of that kind. do his duty-and it was said heTe -the other day, .and I have Mr. NORRIS. With the permission of the Senator from a great deal of sympathy for the suggestion, that eventually Kan as [1\fr. CAPPER], I will do so. On page 2-8 paragraph (b) at some ~ime, in some way, the packers will get control e\en of of section 406 of the bill reads as follows : the commissioner-a safeguard is provided. If the .Senate bill (b) On 'and after the enactment of this act, and so long as it re- is -enacted as it stands in respect to that prop0sition, in order IDllins in effect, the Federal Trade Commission shall have no power to relieve themselv-es of any investigation the packers would or jurisdiction so far as relating to any matter which by this act is have to get co tr 1 0ct: the · · l .4' • 't made subject to the jurisdiction of the SecretaTy, except in cases in · n ° commisSioner unc OJ.. a maJOl'l Y of w:hich, before the enactment of this act, complaint has been served under the Federal Trade Commission. It would take them seTeral section 5 of the act entitled "An act to create a Federal Trade Com- years to do that, unless :the commissioner and the members of mission, to define its powers and duties, and fo.r other purposes," ap- the Federal Trade Commission .should die or Tesign. So on proved September 26 1914, OT under section 11 of the act entitled "An th t .. act to supplement exu;ting1 laws against unlawful :re-straints and monopo- e wo propoSitiOns referred to it seems to me thRt the House litlS, and for other purposes," approved October 1.5, 1914. provision is a dangerous one. That is the provision which, in my judgment, does just what Personally, without amendment, I can not see but there is I ha\e suggested to the Senator from Kansas, and in which he danger of its doing more harm than good. The Secretary of concurs with me, as I understand hlm. Agriculture is liable to be ~hanged overnight. I -charge no l\lr. CURTIS. Does the Senator from Nebraska think that President with being in collusion to bring about such a situa protision is broad enough to affect an investigation that might tion, but the President appoints the Secretary of Agriculture be tmdertaken with regard to clothing which is made of wool? without reference to this particular question; h.e appoints him 1\!r. NORRIS. Yes; I do. I will say to the Senator from Kan- for political reasons; there axe thousands of other matters that sas that if the Secretary of Agriculture would ·enter upon that enr.er into consideration; and he will appoint a man probably kind of -an investigation I would not have serious objection. without knowing how he stands on this question. I am making However, I am not complaining about the Secretary of Agti- no charge against the -present President or any President who culture not doing his duty, .Particularly the present S.ecretary of may follow him. The -secretary of .Agriculture will receiye Agriculture, for r have just as much ·faith in :J}im as h:as the his appointment without :reference to the packers, but, as has Senator, but wool is a by-product of the packing industry. If been said by some of those who are opposing this bill, the we giY.e to any governmental authority the right to inv.estigate power and tl:l.e influence of the packers--sinister, secret, pread questions affecting wool and at the same time take ~wa.y the all over the country-is such that, without th-e President him right <>f the Federal Trade Commission to .investigate any .by- self knowing it, .lle Jll1ght appoint some one fri€D.-dly to the product of the meat:packing industry, we will naturally-! ·do packers. not ·ee how we can escape the conclusion-take away ·from the T<>-morrow, . when we .rea.ch th.e consideration of the bill Federal Trade Commission the right to investigate a charge of under the a-minute ru1e, I :am going to offer an amendment to unfair competition between clothing manufacturers, between the Senate bill in which I shall -move to strike out section t). shoe manufacturers, fertilizer manufacturers, or any -other Section 5 attempts to confer upon the commission-er, in sub manufactlll'ers engaged in kindred lines of busin-ess. stance, the power that is now conferred by law upon the Fed- It is true that under the House bi11 some allthority woul the Federal Trade Commission had before it a charge of un-: tary of the Interior, when he considers the forest situation, fair competition made by one shoe dealer against another, and should have coordinate authority with the Secretary of Agri it was investigating that charge, and it traced the leather to culture? Why duplicate overlapping authority in matters of the packers, it would have to stop just that minute; it could not purely administrative powers in our Government? go any further under the House provision, and the same thing l\Ir. NORRIS. I will say to the Senator that I may be· en would be true of the Senate provision, unless the President or tirely wrong, but I think I have made my position plain as to the Secretary of Agriculture or one branch of Congress acted. why I think that. Does not the Senator understand it? Let Now, I do not want to get the country into that kind of a condi me ask the Senator, now, does he want to put the Federal Trade tion, and that is what I am trying to relieve. Commission in such a position that if they were going to inves :Mr. McNARY. Mr. President, I have as high regard for the tigate ·a charge of unfair competition in clothing they could not efficiency of the Federal Trade Commission as has tlle distin do it? guished chairman of the Agricultural Committee; but if the lllr. ~IcN ...illY. I will say to the chairman of the committee, Secretary of Agriculture is given plenary power . to discover whom I esteem most highly, that on the same principle they unfair practices and unjust discrimination under this bill, should be empowered to conduct an investigation into the cost whether it be the Senate bill or the House bill, why s!wuld of a battleship. I believe that if the Secretary of Agriculture we have two coordimi.te organizations working together and is given power, which this bill gives him, to investigate unfair always coming in collision, wbich is a thing that the Republican practices and unjust discrimination, he should have plenary Party and we as Members of the Senate have always attempted power and final jurisdiction; and I do not believe it is within to say was vicious? the purview of the Federal Trade Commission to interfere with 1\Ir. NORRIS. I do not know that I can make my position any orders or regulations. I believe that the Secretary of Agri any plainer to the Senator. I want to correct him, however, culture is efficient, and capable of administering this law or such when he says that they are always coming in collision; Sup a law as might be enacted. If the chairman's view were taken pose we pass either the Senate bill or the House bill just as into consideration, in all matters of public administration we they stand, either one of them, and there is a complaint made would have a multitude of overlapping authorities. before the Federal Trade Commission by a great manufacturer I think the purpose of a legislator should be to cut out as of woolen clothing against a hundred other woolen clothing many bureaus as possible, to invest power where power should manufacturing associations charging unfair competition and be invested, to hold men responsible for their business, to make they commence an investigation. men understand that the power that is given them should be That is one of the duties of the Federal Trade Commission. treated honestly, and their records should be scrutinized most Nobody will dispute that. They run along until perhaps it be carefully. Where, I thillk, a· mistake has been made in all the comes necessary to trace the wool or the cotton or the linen, or administrations of the country is in giving men power and then anything else that is in the fabric, clear through to its source to dividing that power with other men, which I do not want to do investigate it properly; but they trace this wool to the packers, in this law. and the minute they get it there they have to stop. They can I want to say to my distinguished colleague that I should like not go any further. They have not any authority to go any fur to have the Secretary of Agriculture held responsible for every ther. If they undertake even to investigate it and come in con infraction of the law, for every disobedience of order or regula tact with the packers or anybody engaged in the packing busi tion, and not have him say : "The Federal Trade Commission ness that owned the wool and got it from the back of the sheep has equal power with me, and they refuse to act, and if I haYe that were slaughtered in their slaughtering house, they can be made a mistake it was an e11ror of heart and not of judgment." kicked out of the office. There is no court that can give them l\Ir. NORRIS. Let me ask the Senator a question. The authority to get any evidence to go one step further in the Senator is in favor of the House bill. Suppose we pass it just investigation. as it stands, and suppose a complaint of unfair competition is It is true, probably, that if we do pass the House bill the made before the Federal Trade Commission by one wholesale Secretary of Agriculture or the commissioner would have au shoe man against another. Can the Federal Trade Commission thority to pick up the matter at that point and go on with the investigate it; and if they can not investigate it, will the Sena investigation; but, on the other hand, the Secretary of Agricul tor tell me who can? This bill does· not give· the Secretary of ture or the commissioner, whichever bill we have, would not Agriculture authority to investigate it. · have authority to investigate anything else that is in that clothing; and there is where I think you would come to a place 1\Ir. 1\IcN.A.RY. I think, in the case the Senator has men where you would have each investigating authority running part tioned, the Federal Trade. Commission should investigate it. way through with an investigation and being compelled to stop. Mr. NORRIS. But the bill that the Senator favors takes I think that is a worse position to put us in than to give away their jurisdiCtion. That is a by-product of the packers. authority to both the Secretary and the Federal Trade Com 1\Ir. McNARY. I favor that bill because I want legislation. mission, when they will not abuse it as against each other, I believe that bill will give us some legislation almost as salu unless there should come a case like the one I have put, where tary as the bill we call the Senate committee bill, known as the the Federal Trade Commission were investigating unfair compe Nor1:is bill. That may be an error of judgment. But that is aside from the general proposition, which is the overlapping of tition between manufacturers of woolen clothing. They would, authority. of course, run it to the bottom. If we struck out section 5 and inserted what I want to insert, they would have authority to go 1\Ir. LA FOLLETTE addressed the Senate. After having to the bottom. . spoken for about one nour and three-quarters, he said: It is true, I will admit to the Senator, that they likewise Mr. President, that brings me to a discussion of the House would have authority to investigate the general packing situa bill, as I haye arranged my data; but the suggestion has been tion. I concede that there would be an overlapping. In prac made by some Senators, in view of their idea of its importance, tice there would be no danger of an overlapping, except in that that discussion be reserved for to-moiTow, and I am per cases where we would want them to go through with their fectly willing to yield to that suggestion. Of course, i.f I investigation. In any investigation the Federal Trade Com should be denied recognition to tb:e floor before 1 o'clock, I mission might make, if the House bill were the law, they could presume I would have the opportunity under the 5-minute not go any further unless we passed a law through the House rule to speak from .time to time, and a good many times, and and through the Senate and had it signed by the President perhaps, so as to be able to lay before the Senate about all I tiiving them authority to go further. If the Senate bill as it want to say on the subject. now stands were enacted into law, and they got into that kind 1\Ir. KENYON. 1\Ir. President, I think that the chairman of a dilemma, they would have to stop unless they were directed of the committee will agree that it can be arranged so that to go further by the President or the Secretary of Agriculture the Senator from Wisconsin will have some time to-morrow. or the Senate or the House, which, of course, in my judgment, is Mr. LA FOLLETTE. I can, at least, secure some time a good deal better than the other case, a good deal easier. If under the 5-minute rule without being under obligations to my amendment should prevail they would have the authority anybody. without the action of anybody. Mr. NORRIS. I will say to the Senator from Wisconsin 1\Ir. McNARY. Mr. President, I understand the state of that I think it can be arranged so that he will have an oppor mind of the chairman of the committee; but in this particular tunity to speak to-morrow morning. I do not know who instance-and in no other department of Government, a&. far as would dare to object, the time having been equally divided I know-there is an overlapping of authority. Why should the between those who are opposed to the bill and those who Federal Trade Commission have jurisdiction where jurisdiction favor it. If that is done, the Senator ought to be able to is given to the Secretary of Agriculture? Why not say that the secure a half hour, I should think, the hour allotted to the Secretary of the Navy should have jurisdiction over certain friends of the bill being divided between the Senator from matters in respect of the Army? Why not say that the Secre- Wisconsin and the Senator from Iowa, a half hour to each~ 1921. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2631 June 26. Embark on Hendenon in evening; sail at daylight June 27 1\Ir. KENYON. I wish I might not be taken into considera to witness the search by aircraft for the old battleship ex-lo'wa, undet tion at all. radio control, and bombing of that vessel with dummy bombs. Return I tli> Washington upon completion, arriving p. m. June 29. 1\Ir. LA FOLLETTE. do not want to crowd on to the time July 12. Leave Washington a. m. to witness destructon of ex-Germa11 of the committee. destroyer by aircraft and the destruction of two other ex-German de 1\Ir. KENYON. If I have 10 or 15 minutes, it is all that I stroyers by gunfire. Return to Washington upon completion, arriving p. m. July 16. care about. I will take my chances. July 19. Leave Washington a. m. to witness the destruction of the Mr. LA FOLLETTE. The members of the committee know ex..Qerman battleship Os t fri esland by bombing from aircraft and gun a good deal more about this legislation than I do. fire from battleships. Return to Washington upon completion, arriv ing p. m. July 22. 1\Ir. KENYON. I do not know whether they do or not, but It should be noted that this itinerary may necessarily be changed I will take my chances about time. I shall be glad if the on account of weather conditions, and that the trips may be prolonged Senator can get down to the discussion of the point be has beyond the periods indicated. '.rhe Navy Department takes great pleasure in hereby extending to made in the morning. The Senators ought to hear it. the membership of the House of Representatives a cordial invitation to 1\Ir. LA FOLLETTE. I could have taken it up earlier in witn~ss these experiments, having in mind that some of the Members, the evening, but, at the suggestion of some Senators, I filled particularly those of the Committees on Naval Affairs, Military Affairs, and Appropriations, might be interested in seeing the exercises. in the time because they thought it ought to be reserved for a Unfortuna.tely, the suitable ac.commodations on the Henderson are quite better attendance of the Senate. That is the fact about it. limited, so that I am compelled to aslt that the number of Representa 1\Ir. KENYON. Let us try that, and quit now. tives who may accept this invitation be limited to 15 for each trip of the Ifenderson. In order. that final a!rangements may be made, and l\Ir. LA FOLLETTE. I want Senators to understand that I the designated Representatives be adVIsed of all details concerning knew what I was doing. I do not care, however ; I am per transportation. it is requested that the Navy Department be informed fectly willing to go on. as soon as possible of the names of those who desire to attend the exercises on each of the four trips of the Henderson. · 1\Ir. NORRIS. Of course, the Senator can go on now if he Sincerely, yours, wants to. EDWIN DENBY,. Mr. LA FOLLETTE. I am satisfied that to-morrow I can Bon. FREDERICK H. GILLETT, say what I desire just as well. Speaker of the House of Representati·ves. RECESS. MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 1\Ir. NORRIS. With that understanding, then, if the Sen A message from the Senate by Mr. Crockett, one of its clerks ator will yield, I mo"\"e that the Senate take a recess until to announced that the Senate had disagreed to the amendment morrow at 11 o'clock. of the H(mse of Representatives to the joint resolution ( S. J. The motion was agreed to; and (at 10 o'clock and 30 minutes R~. 16) repealing the joint resolution of April 6, 1917 declar p. m.) the Senate took a recess until to-morrow, Thursday, ing a state of war to exist between the United States ~nd Ger June 16, 1921, at 11 o'clock a.m. many and the joint resolution of D~ember 7, 1917, declaring a state of war to exist between the United States and the Im perial and Royal Austro-Hungarian Government, and for other purposes, bad asked a conference with the House on the dis HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. agreeing votes of the two Houses, and had appointed Mr. LoDGE, WEDNESDAY, June 15, 1921. Mr. KNox, and Mr. HITCHcocK as the conferees on the part of the Senate. The House met at 12 o'clock noon. - The 'message also announced that the Senate had passed The Chaplain, Rev. James Shera Montgomery, D. D., offered without amendment the bill (H. R. 4091) granting the consent the following prayer : of Congress to the Borderland Coal Corporation to construct a 0 God, Thou are not the King of Terrors, but the Friend and bridge across the Tug Fork of Big Sandy River in Mingo County, , the Savior of men. There is one God who is the Father of us all \V. Va. ·and who is above all, over all and in all, and blessed forever The message also announced that the Senate bad passed more. Come Thou and stoop to our needs. Minister to our joint resolution of the following title, in which the concurrence weakness. Light the lamp of. hope. Lead the way. Extend of the House of Representatives was requested: our horizon until we behold that city that hath foundations, S. J. Res. 32. Joint resolution to suspend the requirements of whose builder and maker is God. In the name of Jesus of annual assessment work on mining claims during the years 1920 Nazareth. Amen. and up to and including June 30, 1921, and fixing the period dur The Journal of the proceedings of Monday, June 13, 1921, was ing which such work shall be performed. read and approved. ENROLLED BILL SIGNED. COMMISSION ON AGRICULTURAL INQUIRY. l\Ir. RICKETTS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, l'e The SPEAKER appointed as members on the part of the ported that they bad examined and found truly enrolled bill of House of the Commission on Agricultural Inquiry under· Senate the following title, when the Speaker signed the same: H. R. 6300. An act making appropriations to supply defici concurrent resolution 4 Mr. A -DERSON, Mr. 1\IILLS, Mr. FUNK, encies in appropriations for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1921, Mr. SuMNERS of Texas, and Mr. TENEYCK. PERSONAL ExPLANATION. and prior fiscal years, and for other purposes. SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION REFERRED. Mr. APPLEBY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to address the House for half a minute. Under clause 2, Rule XXIV, Senate joint resolution was The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New Jersey asks unani taken from the Speaker's table and referred to its appropriate mous consent to address the House for half a minute. Is there committee, as indicated below: S. J. Res. 32. Joint resolution to suspend the requirements objection? There was no objection. of annual assessmE-nt work on mining claims during the years Mr. APPLEBY. Mr. Speaker, on Monday last I was in my 1920 and up to and including June 30, 1921, and fixing the home district inspecting, with Government officials, the condi period during which such work shall be performeu ; to the tion of the Barnegat Lighthouse. Otherwise I should have been Committee on Mines and Mining. pleased to be here and vote for the Porter peace resolution. ENROLLED BILLS PRESENTED TO THE PRESIDENT FOR HIS APPROVAL. AVIATION AND ORD ~ANCE EXPERIMENTS. 1\Ir. RICKETTS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, re The SPEAKER. The Chair will ask the Clerk to read for ported that this day they had presented to the President of the the information of the House a communication which be thinks United States for his approval the following bills: H. R. 5223. An act to exempt from cancellation certain desert will be of interest to Members. The Clerk read as follows: land entries in Riverside County, Calif.; NAVY DEPARTMENT, H. R. 2466. An act to constitute Fort Worth, in the State of • Washington, June 11, 1921. Texas, a port of entry and to extend to said port the privileges MY DE.!R MR. SPEAKER: A series of aviation and ordnance experi of section 7 of an act approved June 10, 1880, entitled "an act ments will be conducted by aircraft and vessels of the Atlantic Fleet to amend the statutes in relation to immediate transportation and units of the Army Air Service, off the Capes of the Chesapeake during the months of June and July, 1921. of dutiable goods, and for other purposes " ; The U. S. S. Henderson will be used to carry the guests of the Navy H. R. 3018. An act granting the consent of Congress to H. H. Department to witness these experiments, and according to present plans, that vessel will leave Washington, D. C., or its immediate vicin Haynes to construct a dike across l\1ud Slough on Isthmus Inlet, ity, in accordance with the following itinerary: in section 23, township 26 south, range 13 west, of Willamette June 20. Leave Washington a. m. to witness destruction of ex meridian in Oregon ; German submarines U-117 by aircraft, and the destruction of U-1.1,0, H. R. 2428. An act granting certain lands to Converse County, .. U-111, UB-48 by gunfire from destroyers. Return to Washington upon completion, arriving there p. m. June 23. Wyo., for a public park; and LXI-166 ea:CS :Where can "farmel's and producers. Their clillmed was his duty as an em limited number of cans of catsup mtor:ma.ti.on is :given -tram .one offi cause was being placed in u wrong ployee of Swift -& Co. ln 'fact, in in a-gallon eans f&r the hotel .and -cial -to another :that centain .infor 'light bef01·e the country. Attempts e¥ery ease where any activity of restaurant trade. The canning m-ation ho.CI jllS-t been reeei-ved from 'Wel"e being olna.de to force through Mr. Logan ·was disclosed in .1·egard process :necessarily required the ":Diamond T." lt was frO'lll "Dia vicions legislation in .their .name. to Swift & Co. it always appeared matEr.rial to be heated to a very mond "T " tha.t information 'WRS .They .decided to call a halt on thi.s tbat "What .he dia had notbing high tempe:ro:trrre and fieared while -given of the beginning of -the movement. whatever to do with wha.t b e hot. 'The ~ns were iilled "''ith th-e movement to fix maximum priees. '1"DEAS DF lMJUI.ERS' ORGA.."HZ.l.'TIO:VS. claimed was his :line of employ full 5 gallcms, •and the-y were so .In other instanees reference is ment. For instance. it was Ills mar.kerL "It- was later .discovered Be1ng ·imbued with the spit'it uf ·made 'to information :from " Dla true A:mencan.s and Ol>POSeil to the closed that he had glve:n to ·Swift that w.hen they eooled ·the expan J:nond T " "Wllieh .is not plain, and & Co. ailvance information as i.o sion ·can-s.ed by the !Hlat -di&~.ppea.red effmts to put thls ·Government into !Which is :not explained by ·a.ny p.tiva:te buBiness, a joint meeting of jus-t what the food bill ·would be and there was a shrinko._ge--not in rother evidence. It is quit~ evident and ns 'to just -what wonld 'be re wejght, but in vohnne. I-f our 'that the investigation ·only dis the executive aflicials of -seven of quired oi the packers ·under the agents llad .marked •the wcigbt fh.e largest and most representative -closeil a small part of ·trre informa national agricUltural organizations l!rw. Even befere Congress knew 1~th~r than the ~allons on 1he tion rfturt was thus received. 'In whu:t kind of a fo.od control act 'DO was held at Washington on Janu cans, there would 'ha:ve 'been o.ne m-emOl'an'dum 'preparea by one ary 28, '1.92{), for the lJTlrpose of they were going to 'J)ass lUr. .Le>gan case. :of the officialS -reference is made :to plan in mem.o.rializing Con~ss, 'the ooject had outlinea the -run to J'eeeiving valuable information, of which was to repudiate the radi bis clients, Swift & Co. He gave THE SHRIXKAGE IN -THE C.ATSUP rwithout disclusln:g what it ·was, of CAN'S. cal ·vtew.s of thuse self·styled ?ep them direct in:formati-on some with the statement that the ma-tter resentatives .of the ·farmers and ·to disagreement between the 'Presi The cans ·were filled fnll, but the r.ef.en:ed to would .he ·looked :after ro::press correctly i:he s.entiments of dent and Mr. Hoover, on one -'Side, subsequent shrinkage which was at onee. Another .:nremora:ndnm the rea1 a:na -patr:iutic fanners of and 'Mr. 'Houston, .Secretary of the unavoiaable showed us that such written by an -assistant .of one ui the United states coneer:ning mat Department of Agriculture, on the packages should be marked ·with .the .paekers -refers to ~ note 'from tei'S of national concern pending other ; and when it is remembered the net weight Tather ·than 11Y ~· .Dirunand T " in rega:rd ·to ·the iin before Congress. that Congress was more or less a guantity in gallon.s. 'The judge vestiga:tion .about Jto :take ~plm!e ·be The org-anizations joining in i1re rubber stamp under the control of :1.-nd the district ·attorney both lf.ore ·.the .dl':ede'ral Ifiade 'Oommi:s memotial ·we:re the Inter.natiomi.l the President, the value of such said that they -were ·satisfied .that 'Sion,•anil .it is ·stn±ed in ·this memo Farm ·co{\gress, the .Nauonsl information can be fully appreci there was :no im:pJ.'OJ)er motive rnndu:m that ".Diamon:£1 !r " wcmld Grange, the .l\merlcan F;u-m Bu ated and understood. o:r _pur.pose .on the _part .of the com lbe glad ·to hnve any £Uggestions reau Federation, the Notional Swift & Co., through M.r. Logan, pany. and 'therefore fixed .a _purely that the. packers desil·ed to malre. Farmers' Union, "tHe "ational Milk knew before the Secretary of Agri .nominal fi.ne, as the statutes 'hatl This memorandum likewise dis Producers' Federation, the Farm culture, Mr. Houston, knew that been technically violated because clo.sed the fact that .Mr. Veeder, ers' National Congress, and the Hoover would have complete con of the shrinkage in volume -and in the .nttorney .tor 'Swift :'& Co., ·was Amerlcan Cotton .... Association. I trol of the Food Administration, measurement of .quantity-some -to ~ - " Ilia.mond "T" the:f.ollow.in_g wish space would permit gnotation and that be would not only control thing we di.d not •foresee nor did Morrday. in :lull ill what these ru:ganizatio'JJ.S the packers in this country, but we have any 'knowledge or 'it .until :A noth.e1· 111em.oran.dum tlisc1nsed aid. to .congress. It empllasized that be would do the buying for the ·compl:ain.t -was .filed. :that .on :the .20th .day of :June, very forcibly ·what to 'lily mind .axe the Allies as well as for the United The Eenator ·.seizes upon this 1 th-e true -:fundamental prinCi_ples .o:f States Government. Mr. Hoover isolated incident i:o :attack -the ;in if';:' :..J~e~ aft;~ 'Y.n~~a rrtr. :American :institution.s. and the President were in private tegrity "Und nunesty {)f thts .great .telling what llad ..bappenea at n .I will quote a portian of the conversation on the night of the . industu, ana, -without any "facts :meeting of the ·:Federal Trade !Com mem.o.tial, as it dearly sets forth 14th day of May, 1917. They went to support the charge, he -reck