15 Mar 2000 Legislative Assembly 397

WEDNESDAY, 15 MARCH 2000 Aitkenvale, Tavern From Ms Nelson-Carr (26 petitioners) requesting the House to reject the application for a general licence to sell liquor for the Mr SPEAKER (Hon. R. K. Hollis, Redcliffe) proposed tavern at 186-188 Nathan Street, read prayers and took the chair at 9.30 a.m. Aitkenvale on the grounds of (a) protection of residential amenity; (b) sufficient licensed premises in the vicinity; and (c) increased traffic PETITIONS flow for long term residents. The Clerk announced the receipt of the Petitions received. following petitions— PAPERS Sanctuary Cove/Hope Island, Pacific MINISTERIAL PAPERS Highway Signage The following papers were tabled— From Mr Baumann (3 petitioners) Premier (Mr Beattie)— requesting the House to authorise the Governing Queensland Handbooks— installation of directional and advisory signage Queensland Cabinet Handbook to Sanctuary Cove/Hope Island from north and Queensland Executive Council south bound traffic on the Pacific Highway. Handbook Queensland Legislation Handbook Cairns, Traffic Lights Queensland Ministerial handbook From Dr Clark (472 petitioners) Queensland Parliamentary Procedures Handbook; requesting the House to instruct the Department of Main Roads to install traffic Queensland Policy Handbook lights at the intersection of Harley Street and Welcome Aboard: A guide for the Kamerunga-Brinsmead Road in Cairns as members and Queensland soon as possible. Government Boards, Committees and Statutory Authorities.

Pacific Motorway MINISTERIAL STATEMENT From Mr Connor (1,565 petitioners) Manufacturing Industry; Virgin Airlines requesting the House to prevail upon the Hon. P. D. BEATTIE (Brisbane Central— Minister for Transport and Minister for Main ALP) (Premier) (9.33 a.m.), by leave: The Roads, the Honourable Steve Bredhauer, to future of Queensland's manufacturing industry undertake the duplication of the Alexander is an issue about which all members should be Drive/Nielsens Road overpass on the Pacific concerned. Local manufacturers now operate Motorway at the earliest possible time, thus in extremely tough and competitive global providing relief to the residents and motorists markets. Even for the supply of contracts in in this area. Queensland, the competition from overseas suppliers is intense. It is incumbent on all Queenslanders to work together to give our Cooyar State School local manufacturers the best opportunity to From Mr Cooper (16 petitioners) survive in that harsh, competitive environment. requesting the House to reassess the situation My Government has already taken the at Cooyar State School and have it remain a initiative to develop a local industry policy two teacher school. entitled A Fair Go for Queensland Industry. I table a copy of that policy for the information of the House and all members. Vegetation Management Bill My Government's local industry policy is From Mr Cooper (11 petitioners) the first of its kind for Queensland and, to my requesting the House to rescind the knowledge, the first of its kind in Australia. My Vegetation Management Bill 1999 deputy, the Deputy Premier, Jim Elder, has immediately. been closely consulting with unions and industry and is chairing a committee of those A similar petition was received from parties to implement the new policy. The policy Mr Hobbs (779 petitioners). establishes a fundamental commitment to 398 Legislative Assembly 15 Mar 2000 providing local industry with a full, fair and I know that this is an issue that is close to reasonable opportunity to tender for major the hearts of Queensland workers, and I project work. Government owned corporations respect their desire to show their concern by will be required to develop industry marching on Parliament today. The Deputy participation plans, setting out how local Premier and I, along with the Minister for industry can be involved in supplying the major Training and Industrial Relations, will meet a contracts issued by the GOCs. The Deputy deputation from the rally after question time Premier and I have recently written to the chair today. I will also be meeting with Ian McLean of each Government owned corporation, of the Telecommunication Employees asking them to ensure that their practices and Association to discuss our mutual concern their Statement of Corporate Intent reflect the about job losses in Telstra, which seem to be Government's commitment to local industry. I rising by the day. We will discuss how we can table a copy of that letter. continue to work together to give Queensland Private sector projects which receive industry and Queensland workers the best significant assistance from Government will chance to win contracts into the future. also be required to prepare an industry This is about jobs and jobs security. My participation plan. The industry participation Government will be working hard to give plans will ensure that these major investors Queensland industry the best possible future. focus on providing opportunities to local That is why we are also encouraging the industry. They will also provide a wealth of location in Queensland of major new information on the extent to which Queensland headquarters for new enterprises, such as industry benefits from a particular investment Virgin Airlines. As members would be aware, project. Members should note that this is a Virgin Australia's headquarters for the new policy which will take time to be fully maintenance base, call centre and operations effective. I accept that. There are some centre will be in Queensland. It is a major coup successes, however, from our new approach for this State and will provide local jobs and already. Bechtel is currently constructing the local opportunities. It means 750 new jobs at Millmerran power station. I asked it to look Virgin's headquarters, call centre, maintenance more closely at Queensland suppliers, as did base and operations centre. Virgin will be the Deputy Premier. It looked at it and was investing $40m a year for each of the next five pleasantly surprised at the quality and years. Virgin has also signalled that it will be competitiveness of Queensland firms. As a looking at using Queensland as a base for result of our direct representations to Bechtel, other commercial activities. We can expect Queensland companies had a new chance to even more jobs flowing from this, as the bid for 39 work packages, with an earning Deputy Premier indicated to the House potential of $55m. Firms such as ANI and yesterday. Alsthorm succeeded in gaining new business from this process. Virgin is also active in the entertainment and communications areas, as well as travel. It This example emphasises that a critical is fair to say that, when this race began—and I element in our local industry policy is repeat this again—we were not amongst the addressing the lack of awareness about the frontrunners simply because Sydney and services that Queensland industry can offer. All Melbourne are both better known Ministers are using every opportunity to internationally, but the aggressive approach of emphasise to GOCs and private investors the my Government has delivered Virgin to importance of supporting Queensland industry. Queensland. When we look at enterprises We are asking that the policy is applied to such as Virgin locating here, it is also important projects already in planning unless there are to discuss what the Government is doing to legally binding commitments which have been encourage them to locate here and what the established which could expose the investors benefits will be, as well as the cost, for to cost penalties. Queensland taxpayers. We did not put up one Just yesterday I met with Normandy cent in up-front cash. We wooed and won Mining and the Australian Magnesium Virgin because we were able to offer the very Corporation, who are investigating the competitive and high quality services of feasibility of a $1.2 billion magnesium metal Brisbane Airport, a very responsive and plant in central Queensland. I took that supportive Government ready to help address opportunity to encourage the use of problems as they arose, a sound business Queensland industry to supply that massive case, Queensland's geographical position at project, and I was pleased with their response the gateway to northern Australian tourism to my representations on behalf of the destinations, and the southern tourism market. Government. These were all relevant to the decision of 15 Mar 2000 Ministerial Statement 399

Virgin to locate here. Queensland did not offer modern Government doing business in a incentive packages which were any more modern, competitive world. It would cost—and competitive than those of the other States, I stress this—millions of dollars to taxpayers if and that was indicated by Virgin at the we revealed all of those details because every announcement. other firm would use that as a starting base for But let us look at what was offered. The negotiations. package contained items similar to those Let me emphasise that the Auditor- offered by our rivals, such as a relaxation of General, as Mr Speaker knows, scrutinises all State taxes and charges such as payroll tax for contracts signed by departments. He signs off a limited time. I should advise the House that the accounts each year, as is reported in this that was the single most significant part of the place. We are already seeing the benefits from package. If Virgin was not locating here, then Virgin locating in Queensland. They are renting they would not be paying payroll tax. We are their office space. They are awarding forgoing nothing in a sense. Therefore, for that contracts. I understand that they have already short period of years when we forgo payroll awarded one in relation to payroll tax to a tax, we are forgoing nothing in a sense that it Queensland company. With contracts like the would not be paid if they were not located one with Virgin and the extension to the here. location of Boeing, we will fight to generate There is also a training component which extra jobs for Queenslanders because from will support Queenslanders to get jobs with that there is contract work and further jobs for Virgin. There are moneys for relocation and Queenslanders across this State. set-up costs and limited marketing support as well. If Virgin did not locate here, we would not be getting any of the vast benefits that will flow MINISTERIAL STATEMENT from the airline. Forgoing some taxes and Minister for the Environment; Water charges means that we are giving nothing from our existing revenue. Training support Hon. P. D. BEATTIE (Brisbane Central— means that we are giving Queenslanders skills ALP) (Premier) (9.43 a.m.), by leave: For to earn a living. I call that an investment, not a months now there has been confusion from cost. the Federal Government—confusion over the GST, confusion over National Competition Will taxpayers lose if Virgin was in some Policy, confusion over tree clearing and now way to fail, which we obviously do not believe it confusion over water. The Minister for the would? The agreement between Virgin and Environment, Senator Robert Hill, recently the Queensland Government operates for five wrote an article in the Australian newspaper on years. If Virgin does not perform its part of the 28 February titled "Let's avoid crying over spilt agreement, it will have to repay any funds to water". It was a blatant attack on Queensland the Queensland Government. This is farmers about water. I do not need to remind supported by a bank guarantee. The honourable members of how important this cornerstone of our agreement involves support issue is to Queensland land-holders. At both being provided subject to the company the Winton and Roma Community Cabinet delivering on its job targets with a limited meetings, my Ministers and I received many tolerance. If these targets are not met, again deputations about the issue of water. I would support from the Queensland Government go so far as to say that the issue of water is must be repaid. just as important to land-holders as the issue If we were to release the full details of of vegetation management. every aspect that I have already described to the House this morning, it would cost After reading Senator Hill's article, one Queensland taxpayers millions. The reason could be forgiven for thinking that our land- holders' management of water is of little that it would cost Queensland taxpayers consequence to him. On the health of the millions is this: every time the Queensland Murray-Darling Basin, Senator Hill said— Government sought to encourage another firm to locate here, the terms and conditions of the "The rivers of the region are also part Virgin deal or any other deal would be used as of the cultural and historic fabric of our a benchmark. It would remove our ability to nation. In harnessing their might we have negotiate. It would remove this State's made mistakes. Water quality is competitive and commercial ability to attract increasingly under threat from poorly more businesses here and more jobs. I know managed riverine systems, increased that from time to time there are those who will salinity and other flow-on effects from land have their criticisms of it, but this is about a use." 400 Ministerial Statement 15 Mar 2000

It is not long before Senator Hill moves on to shock waves throughout rural Queensland. his favourite whipping boy, Queensland, which Senator Hill has threatened to withhold $600m he does at every opportunity. In the article he from the States in national competition goes on to say— payments unless we comply and cap water "Queensland is of even greater usage from our river systems. On tree clearing concern because the cap has yet to be he was refusing to give us money. On water established and even basic water he has gone one better: he is threatening to allocation management plans for key take money from us. Senator Hill has began rivers are more than 2 years overdue. The another campaign against Queensland. Beattie Government has refused to cap Mr Hobbs interjected. water diversion levels at current levels as Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for a precautionary measure until the plans Warrego will cease interjecting. are finalised." Mr Elder interjected. He goes on to say— Mr Hobbs interjected. "Non-compliance in these states Mr SPEAKER: That was unparliamentary, poses a threat to the ecological health of and the member will withdraw it. The member the river and the security of supply for called the Deputy Premier a "little runt". I ask water users. Their Governments are doing the member to withdraw it. their irrigators no favours in maintaining the pretence that they are immune from Mr HOBBS: I rise to a point of order. I will the implications of their actions." withdraw if he withdraws. And we thought that we were running a green Mr SPEAKER: But I did not hear the agenda! Deputy Premier say— But Senator Hill does not just have water Mr ELDER: With due deference to you, extraction from our rivers in his sights. He is Mr Speaker, I will withdraw the fact that I called even after those farmers providing off-stream the member for Warrego a fool. storage of water. He said— Mr HOBBS: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the "The issue of private storage of water fact that I called the Deputy Premier a runt. will provide a test of commitment from the Mr SPEAKER: Order! I think that indicates states. To get around the cap some water the behaviour of the House. I am not going to users have adopted a range of measures tolerate any more of it. that prevent water reaching the rivers in Mr BEATTIE: As I was indicating, Senator the first place." Hill has begun another campaign against But wait—there is more. Earlier this week—in Queensland, this time on water. I want to put it fact, on Monday—in an address to the 10th very clearly on the record today that this World Water Congress, Senator Hill bagged campaign from Senator Hill is not in the State's Queensland farmers and repeated his diatribe interest or in the national interest. I am going by adding another prong about ground water. to table all three of the articles I referred to for He said— the information of honourable members, but particularly for the people in the bush. Let it be "Our response calls for more action known that, once again, my Government will from the states on the increasing use of fight to protect our best interests and to look ground water and private water storage as after the interests of Queenslanders and a means of getting around the cap." Queensland farmers. I challenge the But in one of the biggest acts of hypocrisy and honourable member for Surfers Paradise, victimisation of the bush, Senator Hill, who Senator Hill's friend, to raise this matter with his claims to be working for the bush, betrayed the central council members who will meet with bush. In speaking about structures, he said Senator Hill next month—but I suspect that a that he wants to put in place—wait for it; this is lot of water will flow before we get any what Senator Hill said to this international response. conference—reduced land clearing and I have sought to work behind the scenes reduced water diversions and water harvesting. with Senator Hill on a range of issues. I have This is from a man who will not support land indicated that in terms of water we are also clearing legislation. And all of this for an prepared to try to work with Senator Hill and international audience and guests visiting the Federal Government. We sought to work Australia! with Senator Hill on vegetation management But it was yesterday's article in the and that was unsuccessful. It required us to Courier-Mail that no doubt would have sent attend a meeting with the Prime Minister and 15 Mar 2000 Ministerial Statement 401

Wilson Tuckey which Senator Hill did not As the Premier has said, he and I have attend. I sought that meeting to resolve that written to all Government owned corporations issue. It is far from resolved, but we will pointing out that they will need to comply with continue to try to work with the Commonwealth the policy. I have also written to the private in a constructive way. This campaign, sector proponents of major projects, pointing embarked on by Senator Hill to attack farmers out the policy to them and putting our in this State on the issue of water resources at their disposal to try to increase management— local content. Mr Hobbs interjected. More than anything else, this Government Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for is determined to avoid the scandalous Warrego will cease interjecting. That is my final situation which occurred at Callide, where the warning. arrangements put in place by the Borbidge Mr Borbidge: It is always someone else's Government led to millions of dollars worth of fault. work being carried out overseas when it could have been carried out in Australia. Mr BEATTIE: The member for Surfers Paradise wants to defend Senator Hill. I would I want to be quite clear about this. In have thought that the member for Surfers some areas there will be a demand for Paradise would have stood with me, alongside imported product, simply because local the farmers, to seek a fair outcome. Let the industry does not have the capability or record show that the Leader of the Opposition capacity to supply some items. Industry is supporting Senator Hill against Queensland accepts this and trade unions accept this. We farmers. have absolutely no intention at all of forcing the proponents of major projects to pay more for their major projects, as such a move would MINISTERIAL STATEMENT in the long term be counterproductive and Local Content Policy would cost jobs in Queensland. But there are many areas in which Queensland industry is Hon. J. P. ELDER (Capalaba—ALP) competitive, and this Government is right (Deputy Premier and Minister for State alongside trade unions and the employer Development and Minister for Trade) groups in trying to keep local content high and (9.50 a.m.), by leave: I rise to tell the House keep jobs locally. about the way that the local content policy devised by this Government to keep blue-collar I can also tell the House that we have jobs in Queensland is being implemented. engaged Barry Kelly—the former head of Last Friday was the first meeting of the task Western Mining's fertiliser project in north-west force— Queensland and before that an executive with Mr Borbidge interjected. Mount Isa Mines—as a consultant to drive the local content policy and make sure that it is Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the being applied. Mr Kelly has a tremendous Opposition will cease interjecting. knowledge of business and major projects and Mr ELDER: Last Friday was the first also has an intimate knowledge of the local meeting of the task force which is charged with manufacturing industry. I believe that he will be responsibility for implementing the policy. This able to work with the proponents of major task force consists of representatives of trade projects to source as much work locally as unions, employer organisations and possible. Government, all with the goal of seeing that as much work as possible on major projects can This Government is about jobs for be sourced within the State. Queenslanders. In the past mistakes have been made. The contracts signed by the The policy applies to all projects worth Borbidge Government in regard to Callide C over $5m which are being constructed by the which exported jobs out of Queensland is the State Government and to those private sector most recent and disastrous example. As in so projects with a substantial Government many areas, the Borbidge Government did contribution. The policy requires the nothing and took no action to rectify that preparation of industry participating plans for situation. However, this Government will not those projects. These plans will give local shirk its responsibilities to the manufacturing companies the opportunity to supply under the sector and will continue to work with industry same terms, standards and conditions as and with trade unions to keep blue-collar jobs existing supply-side partners. I stress that the in this State. project plans also apply to Government owned corporations. Mr Borbidge interjected. 402 Ministerial Statement 15 Mar 2000

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the gets". He is not happy with his Minister. Nor Opposition will cease interjecting and talking am I. across the Chamber. I have just warned him, I have written to the Commonwealth and I warn him that it is my final warning. Minister again seeking clarification on what is in store for older Queenslanders. I am not MINISTERIAL STATEMENT convinced that the $83.6m promised by the Minister is really extra funding. I am advised Aged Care Funding that more than $50m of the $83.6m forms part Hon. W. M. EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha— of the Commonwealth forward estimates for ALP) (Minister for Health) (9.54 a.m.), by leave: 2002-03 and 2003-04 and that the additional In the present debate that is raging over the funding would have been expected anyway quality of aged care in Australia, two things because of natural growth in high care places, have become patently obvious. The first is the increasing levels of dependency and disarray in the Commonwealth Department of indexation. If that is the case, then the Minister Aged Care and the lack of leadership and must urgently reconsider her position as she is direction being offered by the present Minister, selling out older Queenslanders. Bronwyn Bishop. The second—and this point The Productivity Commission dramatically reinforces my first observation—is recommended immediate relief for the appalling underfunding of aged care Queensland, but the Minister has chosen to services in Queensland. This is not just my ignore this recommendation and instead assertion; it is also the assertion of many of proposed to drip-feed Queensland instead of the Commonwealth Minister's Federal providing this urgently needed interim relief. colleagues. Queensland will not receive any increase in Back in November 1998 I first urged the funding until 1 July 2001, and then it will only Minister for Aged Care to meet the be a mere $8.6m for the financial year, when recommendations of the Federal the Productivity Commission has confirmed Government's own Productivity Commission, that Queensland is underfunded by $50m a which has identified that an extra $50m a year year, each and every year. It is a disgrace. is needed to lift funding for aged care in Queensland aged care providers must meet Queensland to the national standard. At the the same costly accreditation processes as time I wrote seeking support from coalition other States, yet they receive substantially less members of the Federal Parliament and, in a in Federal subsidies. I urge all members of the rare show of political bipartisanship, I received House of all political persuasions to continue to letters of support from eight Federal coalition push for a fair deal for frail aged members and senators as well as Federal Queenslanders. Labor members. More then a year later, on 6 December 1999 the Minister announced by media MINISTERIAL STATEMENT release that the funding equalisation and Energex Corporation, Public Safety assistance package would supposedly solve Hon. T. McGRADY (Mount Isa—ALP) the problem and provide an extra $83.6m so (Minister for Mines and Energy and Minister that Queensland could reach the national rate Assisting the Deputy Premier on Regional of funding by 1 July 2002. I am not satisfied Development) (10 a.m.), by leave: Late last with the Minister's response because I fear she year I commissioned an investigation into a is using a sleight of hand to mislead number of issues regarding public safety and Queenslanders. Given the views of some of asset management within the Energex her own coalition colleagues, they clearly Corporation. The investigation was carried out agree with me. On ABC Radio on 7 March this by Mr Ron McGuigan and Mr Dick Williams, year Queensland Liberal backbencher Ian who are both very well regarded for their Macfarlane said his Aged Care Minister was knowledge of and experience in the electricity "not the most popular Minister". He added— industry. "Certainly not in Queensland at the The report has been submitted to me and moment, we're not happy with the way contains a number of significant she is handling the issue of coalescence." recommendations to improve electrical safety He went on to say that the treatment of in Queensland. Although originally Queensland is "simply not justifiable when we commissioned in regard to Energex, the issues see Victorian nursing homes getting another identified are in fact largely applicable right $145 a patient a week over what Queensland across the State. I can assure the House that 15 Mar 2000 Ministerial Statement 403 the Government will be giving very sympathetic near powerlines. For example, a home owner consideration to the recommendations. or local council could plant unsuitable trees The key recommendations include: the under powerlines, but the distribution mandatory installation of safety switches in all corporation has to manage and trim the trees. consumer installations; the development of Other States throughout the Commonwealth legislation, supported by a code of practice, to have more detailed legislation that distributes allocate responsibility for vegetation the responsibility more equitably between the management to appropriate stakeholders various stakeholders. The report notes that the including the State Government, local councils responsibility for the trimming of trees near and home owners; improved public awareness overhead lines rests entirely with the electricity and understanding of the hazards associated distribution corporations and recommends that with electricity; reviewing safety legislation and legislation, supported by a code of practice, be developing a code of practice for safety within developed to allocate responsibility for the industry; and the progressive vegetation management to the appropriate undergrounding of existing overhead wires. stakeholders. The recommendation on safety switches The Local Government Association of concerns the mandatory retrofitting of these Queensland and the Queensland electricity devices into all customers' installations within a distributors are close to finalising a code of time frame of, say, two years. Since 1991, it practice on vegetation and the electricity has been mandatory for all new houses to supply network. I fully support the have safety switches installed. However, about recommendation that legislation be reviewed half of the houses built before 1991 do not to more adequately allocate responsibility for have safety switches installed. In the past the vegetation management near powerlines. The Government has promoted the installation of implementation of this recommendation will be these devices through various means, progressed by the Department of Mines and including a subsidy program and a number of Energy in consultation with the Electrical public awareness campaigns. Health and Safety Council, other relevant State Government agencies and local Both Ergon and Energex currently have government. programs in place which allow customers to have a safety switch fitted and pay for it over There is also a recommendation to an extended time period through their improve public awareness and understanding electricity accounts. There is no doubt that of the hazards associated with electricity. This safety switches save lives. I have been recommendation promotes the development advised that there have been nine fatal of a coordinated and extensive public electrical accidents in domestic situations since education program to improve public the beginning of last year. All of these could awareness and understanding of the hazards have been prevented if a correctly functioning associated with electricity and the appropriate safety switch had been providing protection. responses to emergency situations. This recommendation is already being addressed Given the technical, financial and through the existing Queensland Electricity legislative facets of this program, I have Education Council, which is currently established a working group comprising State conducting a review of existing awareness and local government officials and electricity strategies. It is expected that, upon completion industry representatives. The working group will of this review, the council will be assess all issues associated with a mandatory recommending that an expanded public program, including the legislative or regulatory awareness program be implemented. In requirements to underpin the program, how regard to the recommendation for a review of the program could be implemented and how electricity safety legislation, I am pleased to costs could be fairly levied. say that this is also currently under way. In the matter of vegetation management, The final major recommendation concerns it is quite clear that vegetation overgrowth is a the undergrounding of existing overhead major cause of overhead power line breakage, domestic powerlines throughout the State to particularly during storms. Currently, the eliminate the danger posed by these lines if distribution corporations are responsible for the they are brought down. As members are clearing of all vegetation that could affect the probably aware, I fully support the safe operation of overhead powerlines. undergrounding of existing overhead The investigation has noted that there is powerlines in city and urban areas. Western no onus on the owners of trees, including local Australia has a project under way to place its councils, Main Roads and home owners, to distribution powerlines underground in urban take responsibility for planting unsuitable trees areas. I have examined this program at first 404 Ministerial Statement 15 Mar 2000 hand in order to discuss project viabilities and result of these fare rises, patronage is possible funding arrangements with local expected to decline by over 3% in the governments and electricity companies. I metropolitan areas and by 1.5% in other believe that this is something we have to areas. This could mean the loss of almost 3.5 address. million person trips per year. The recommendations contained in this Modelling by PricewaterhouseCoopers report will be considered by the Government commissioned by Queensland Transport on and I hope and expect all members of this behalf of all other State and Territory tax House to play an important part in this regulators has determined that taxi fares will process. increase by up to 7.5%. Early modelling using the Treasury Econtech model suggests that fares on ferries will increase after the GST by MINISTERIAL STATEMENT approximately 3.5%. Further, fares for Impact of GST on Public Transport passenger air services are expected to rise by Hon. S. D. BREDHAUER (Cook—ALP) over 7.5%. (Minister for Transport and Minister for Main Fares are not the only matter of concern Roads) (10.05 a.m.), by leave: When the with public transport and the GST. With the Commonwealth introduced the GST number of additional private motor vehicle trips legislation, little if any consideration was given that the GST will produce, the social cost to to the effects of a consumption tax on public the State and the community will be transport. What is now known is that fares will enormous. Modelling shows that the costs of rise on all modes of public transport. The final additional required infrastructure, and costs calculation of exactly how the GST will affect through motor vehicle accidents and public transport is problematic as the subsequent hospitalisation, could be over Commonwealth has, at this time, not released $30m annually. details of two key elements of the package, In summary, the GST will increase the these being the diesel and alternative fuels cost of public transport and reduce the cost of grants scheme and the boundaries within private transport. Correspondingly, there will be south-east Queensland for the application of increases in the demand and costs to the the scheme. State for road space, infrastructure and However, within these limitations the maintenance. Traffic congestion and impacts of the GST on public transport and associated problems such as air pollution and patronage have been modelled and the motor vehicle accidents are all expected to results give cause for considerable concern. worsen. The negative impacts of the GST will These results include the following. Citytrain be a major obstacle to our attempts to fares will rise by almost the full 10%. increase public transport usage in this State. Queensland Rail's urban rail services receive no benefit from the diesel fuel grant because those services are electrified. Only minimal MINISTERIAL STATEMENT savings are expected from other aspects of Year 3 Literacy the tax package, so QR will have to pass on Hon. D. M. WELLS (Murrumba—ALP) almost the full 10% as fare increases on the (Minister for Education) (10.09 a.m.), by leave: Citytrain network. The results of the August Year 3 national The costs of public transport usage will benchmark tests, which I released recently, significantly worsen compared with the costs of contain both good news and cause for using private motor vehicles. This will provide a concern: 82.4% of our students met or disincentive to people who otherwise may surpassed the national benchmark. This is less have used public transport services. As a result than the other States, but only a few per cent of the projected fare rise for Citytrain and less, and remembering that our children are up reduced private motoring costs, patronage is to a year younger than students in other expected to decline by approximately 4%. One States, this is actually better than you would impact of a decline in patronage will be expect. Our students also had fewer months of reduced profitability of bus and rail services. formal schooling. Results of an analysis by Queensland Closer analysis of the figures is even more Transport indicate that, after removing all the encouraging in relation to the results from indirect taxes and accounting for the diesel previous years. The availability of the 1999 fuel grant, urban bus fares will also rise by results gives us the opportunity to compare almost 8% in south-east Queensland and by them with the 1998 results, which was the first nearly 5% in other parts of the State. As a year of testing. The results were as follows: 15 Mar 2000 Ministerial Statement 405 writing performance improved with the scores the Assistant Director-General, Professor Allan rising 4.4%; spelling performance improved Luke, who is an internationally recognised with the scores rising 4%; and reading and literacy expert, to conduct a re-examination of viewing improved with the scores rising 3.9%. our literacy programs. He will report back to me The overall general change as indicated by by the middle of the year. I anticipate that the these results represents an improvement for all outcome of this review will be a new literacy students broadly. The Year 3 test was not a strategy for Queensland State schools. census test done by all students in the State but was done by a representative sample. Nevertheless, my department advises me that MINISTERIAL STATEMENT the result is statistically significant and Annual Action Plan for Women represents an educationally meaningful Hon. J. C. SPENCE (Mount Gravatt— improvement. ALP) (Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait What changed between 1998 and 1999 Islander Policy and Minister for Women's that might explain the improvement? Changes Policy and Minister for Fair Trading) in the performance of something as complex (10.13 a.m.), by leave: Last Wednesday, 8 as literacy will arise from a number of factors. March, people around the world united to Literacy programs introduced by my celebrate International Women's Day. In predecessors, such as the Year 2 Net and the Queensland, where International Women's preschool curriculum, will have had an impact, Day has been marked for 71 years, women and I acknowledge the praiseworthy from the Tweed River to the Torres Strait contributions of the members for Merrimac, ensured that one day rolled into a week of Ipswich and Kedron. The main change from celebrations. I had the pleasure of rounding 1998, however, has been the commencement out the week by visiting Charleville, where of a $17.5m program to provide one-to-one women had come from far and wide to join an teacher aide support to children who were event called My God, It's a Woman. I can having difficulties with literacy or were identified assure the House that the women of the west, in the Year 2 Net. like their sisters all over Queensland, marked International Women's Week with great gusto. This seems to imply that the program is working, and working extremely well—indeed, This day grew from a movement of beyond expectations. Nevertheless, the fact women protesting against appalling conditions that the Year 3 students performed at a level for female workers in the textile industry. slightly below that of other students in other Despite a century of agitation and activism, the States is a matter for concern, even taking into motivations behind the early International account that our Year 3 students are up to a Women's Days remain very relevant to women year younger than in other States. in the year 2000. This relevance is reflected in a document launched by the Premier on 8 Another concern is that, whilst the girls did March, the Annual Action Plan for Women. well with 86.3% meeting or surpassing the benchmark, only 79.9% of the boys performed The action plan, launched each day on at or above benchmark levels. Of even more International Women's Day, reaffirms that this concern is the fact that just 66.7% of Government will continue to work with and for Queensland women and girls. Like the women indigenous students were at or above the behind the first International Women's Days, benchmark. Although this result compares Queensland women care deeply about favourably with indigenous students in other employment issues. States, the indigenous students' results indicate the need for more work in that area. I am proud to be part of a Government that is delivering on these and other concerns However, even here there is some light on for Queensland women and girls. For instance, the hill. At a subsequent sitting of this House, I 73% of unemployed people recruited to the will table the latest Queensland School Working for You traineeships in 1998-99 were Curriculum Council report on literacy. This will women; the Premier's Council for Women has indicate that the improvement in indigenous developed a web site on work-related issues students' results is considerably greater than tailored especially for Queensland women; the the improvement in the results of the rest of Department of Employment, Education, the cohort. Training and Industrial Relations is reviewing Clearly, there are two groups here, boys awards to remove discriminatory provisions; and indigenous students, who need to be and the Department of Families, Youth and given additional attention in order to bring Community Care has developed and is them up to the standard of the rest of the implementing the Queensland Child Care cohort. In these circumstances, I have asked Strategic Plan. 406 Ministerial Statement 15 Mar 2000

We are doing this against a backdrop of kerbside pick-ups to central drop-off points in Federal industrial relations laws that an effort to reduce costs. Many of our local disadvantage women and against the looming governments have been impacted upon by spectre of a GST that will reduce jobs in retail the high cost of transporting materials and service industries, where most workers are collected from Queenslanders' homes to women. reprocessing plants in southern States. These Opposition members interjected. plants are making plastic-based products such as witch's hats for traffic control, soft drink Ms SPENCE: No, the members opposite bottles, flavoured milk bottles, irrigation and do not like to hear about the GST. Those three stormwater pipes and subterranean covers for letters upset them every time. Telstra lines, in most cases using recycled The Government's commitment to women plastics collected in Queensland. extends 365 days of the year, not just International Women's Day. Yesterday, the A recycled plastics manufacturing industry Attorney-General and Minister for Justice in Queensland would make kerbside tabled the historic report of the Task Force on collections more viable and reduce transport Women and the Criminal Code, which costs across the State, and the job exemplifies the Government's willingness to opportunities and economic benefits currently take advice from women from all walks of life. being exported to other States could stay in Every day of the year, we are working to Queensland. Just last week, a New South improve women's safety, their access to Wales company, which took recycled plastics justice, access to housing and health care, from Queensland and turned them into and opportunities to enjoy artistic, cultural and agricultural pipes, sold two semitrailer loads of product to Innisfail. A local Queensland-based sporting pursuits. reprocessing industry can reverse this situation We are also committed to fairer to Queenslanders' advantage and create new representation for women among society's jobs and economic benefits for people in our decision makers. We know that much work State. remains. What documents such as the action plan and the report on the Criminal Code show To encourage industry growth, we are is that the Government accepts the challenge offering market development grants through of continuing to work with Queensland women the EPA to companies interested in on improving our policies and services. establishing reprocessing plants in Queensland. A total of $270,000 in grants is being provided, supported by a range of MINISTERIAL STATEMENT business incentives. These grants are also Plastics Recycling available to existing plastics companies in Queensland to enable them to expand Hon. R. J. WELFORD (Everton—ALP) recycling operations and create new products (Minister for Environment and Heritage and in competition with other States. Minister for Natural Resources) (10.16 a.m.), by leave: I am pleased to announce to the A plastics recycling industry in our State House today a plan by our Government to will have direct benefits for Queenslanders. It establish a plastics recycling industry in will reduce the costs to ratepayers for collection Queensland. This is a plan developed by my programs, it will make those programs more Environmental Protection Agency that will economically viable, and it will create green create new jobs and significant environmental jobs in a Smart State. There will be multiple benefits for all Queenslanders. It is a smart benefits from this initiative. We anticipate that initiative, a win-win for Queensland, which will the amount of plastics recycled in Queensland stop jobs and profits being exported to the will increase dramatically. It will help reduce southern States. Such a manufacturing visible pollution and provide additional industry will take plastic material, collected protection for our waterways and river and through our recycling programs, to make new marine life. A further benefit will be to reduce and useful products. Our Government has the need for landfill space, improving local encouraged local government to establish amenities and cutting the costs to local effective kerbside recycling programs for government. materials such as plastics, aluminium, glass The growth of recycling programs across and paper. our State reflects the commonsense instinct of Unfortunately, many councils have Queenslanders to conserve resources to struggled to achieve financial viability with protect our environment. However, recycling these programs. In fact, two councils in north must be made more profitable if the financial Queensland have recently moved from burden for local government is to be reduced. 15 Mar 2000 Privilege 407

Establishing a plastics recycling industry in Nothing could be further from the truth in Queensland will help local government's the attack that Mr Hamill made on me. J. B. collection initiatives stack up economically as Were was contracted as the lead agency, and more secure supply contracts with local its suitability to perform this specialist role was manufacturers are established. advised by Arthur Andersen. On the insistence This is a value-added industry initiative of Mr Borbidge and me that Queensland firms which will provide great value for all be involved in the sell down, Wilson HTM and Queenslanders. Successful applicants for the Morgans were selected out of a list because of grants program will be selected later next their suitability and their ability in the field, and month by the Environmental Protection again were approved by Arthur Andersen. Agency in consultation with the Department of I was at a large business gathering in State Development. This is great news for jobs Brisbane last night where dismay was and the environment in our State. frequently expressed at the rabid attack on the integrity of some of the business community by the Treasurer, Mr Hamill. PERSONAL EXPLANATION Mr SPEAKER: Order! I think the member Stockbrokers; Sale of Suncorp-Metway is drifting away from the personal explanation. Mrs SHELDON (Caloundra—LP) Mrs SHELDON: I am finishing, Mr (10.20 a.m.), by leave: Yesterday in the House Speaker. However, as many of these business the Treasurer, David Hamill, made a people said, was this not the same Treasurer disgraceful attack on me and cast a who orchestrated the net bet fiasco? disgraceful reflection on three of the top national and Queensland stockbroking firms, accusing them of being in collusion with me as PRIVILEGE Treasurer in backroom deals for their profit in Stockbrokers; Sale of Suncorp-Metway the sell down of Suncorp-Metway. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Suncorp- Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich—ALP) Metway deal was the largest and most (Treasurer) (10.23 a.m.): I rise on a matter of successful deal in the history of Queensland privilege. The member for Caloundra has quite and the Queensland Government. falsely misrepresented statements I made in the House yesterday. As Treasurer in the coalition Government, I converted $1 billion in State assets into Opposition members interjected. $2 billion, a net gain for Queensland taxpayers Mr SPEAKER: Order! I intend to listen to of $1 billion, while preserving and this point of privilege. strengthening a Queensland icon in Suncorp Mr HAMILL: The member for Caloundra and for the first time providing an all finance has quite disgracefully misrepresented group in Queensland. The deal was thoroughly statements I made in the House yesterday by and carefully researched with a number of falsely stating this morning that I criticised potential advisers, facilitators and consultants stockbroking firms involved with the Suncorp- making representations to the Government of Metway sell down. Let the record show— the day before a decision to proceed and with whom was made. However, because of the Mr Horan interjected. extreme commercial sensitivity of the deal, Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member tenders could not be called for fear of for Toowoomba South. revealing the plans prior to fulfilment, which Mr HAMILL: Let the record show that because of the market and price sensitivity yesterday I stated quite clearly that I did not would have brought the deal undone. question in any way the professionalism or the State purchasing policy anticipates such integrity of the brokers concerned. circumstances, permitting limited or exclusive Mr Lester interjected. tendering when extreme commercial in confidence prevails. Such was the case with Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for the Suncorp-Metway deal. As to fees, there Keppel will cease interjecting. I am calling for was vigorous and extensive negotiation, with order. I am going to listen to this point of the final fees agreed on better terms than privilege. If anybody wants to leave the those which the Commonwealth negotiated on chamber, they will be requested to do so. the CBA privatisation occurring at the same Mr HAMILL: As I stated yesterday, in time. Independent advice was taken from response to repeated interjections from the Arthur Andersen at each step in these Opposition benches— negotiations. Mr Rowell interjected. 408 Liquor (Trading Limitations on Anzac Day) Amendment Bill 15 Mar 2000

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member SCRUTINY OF LEGISLATION COMMITTEE for Hinchinbrook under Standing Order 123A. Report Mr HAMILL: As I stated yesterday in Mrs LAVARCH (Kurwongbah—ALP) response to repeated interjections from the (10.27 a.m.): I lay upon the table of the House Opposition benches, those brokers were used Alert Digest No. 3 of 2000 and move that it be by this Government in the sell down of the printed. Queensland Government interest in the Bank of Queensland and the TAB. But there was an Ordered to be printed. important difference. When we engaged brokers to do that work, there was no exclusive NOTICE OF MOTION arrangement entered into, as the coalition had Life Education Centres done with respect to the Suncorp sale. We sought expressions of interest in a competitive Mr QUINN (Merrimac—LP) (Deputy process and had a probity auditor undertake Leader of the Liberal Party) (10.28 a.m.): I give the review. No such thing occurred with respect notice that I shall move— to the very lucrative contract entered into by "That this Parliament calls upon the the then Treasurer, a contract that involved the ALP Government to reinstate the funding, payment of over $600,000 in default of Stage as commenced by the Coalition, to Life 2 of that contract. Education Centres." Mrs SHELDON: I rise to a point of order. As I indicated in my personal explanation, LIQUOR (TRADING LIMITATIONS ON ANZAC Arthur Andersen at all times checked every DAY) AMENDMENT BILL aspect. Is the Treasurer saying that Arthur Andersen is also no good and did not do its Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North—NPA) job properly? (10.29 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I move— Mr SPEAKER: Order! I think we are "That leave be granted to bring in a entering into debate. Bill for an Act to amend the Liquor Act Mr BEANLAND: I rise to a point of order. 1992." The member for Ipswich is debating the issue. Motion agreed to. It is clearly not a matter of privilege. Mr SPEAKER: I have ruled on that. First Reading Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and PARLIAMENTARY CRIMINAL JUSTICE Bill, on motion of Mr Healy, read a first time. COMMITTEE Reports Second Reading Mr LUCAS (Lytton—ALP) (10.26 a.m.): I Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North—NPA) lay upon the table of the House Criminal (10.29 a.m.): I move— Justice Commission reports, together with relevant executive summaries entitled "What "That the Bill be now read a second the public thinks about employee behaviour in time." the Queensland Public Service and local Previously in this House a similar councils", "Public attitudes towards the CJC", amendment Bill was debated at length. While "Reported sexual offences in Queensland" it had the support of many members, it was and "Prevention pays!-Newspaper of the not passed because Government members Queensland Criminal Justice Commission No. voted against it. This amendment Bill, as the 2 February 2000". These publications are not previously defeated amendment Bill proposed reports of the CJC for the purposes of section to do, aims to prevent the sale of alcohol after 26 of the Criminal Justice Act 1989. The midnight on 24 April—the day before Anzac committee stresses that it has in no way Day. It does not propose to close any licensed conducted an inquiry into the matters which premises at this time. It simply limits the sale of are the subject of these publications. However, alcohol to midnight instead of the current the committee is tabling these documents as it 3 a.m. believes it is in the spirit of the Criminal Justice The Bill also allows RSL clubs to provide Act that all non-confidential publications by the traditional services to their members on their CJC be tabled in Parliament. very special day of the year. 15 Mar 2000 Questions Without Notice 409

Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of This amendment gives no guarantees that order. I believe that a Bill which is the same as incidents will not occur in the future—I admit one that has been defeated cannot come that—but it will limit the risks. It is aimed at before the House. prevention which is, by any standards, a better option than trying to cure a developed problem. Mr HEALY: Mr Speaker, it is not identical. The Coalition strongly supports this Mr MACKENROTH: I would ask that the amendment and there is strong community Clerk have a look at the Bill, Mr Speaker. support for it also. Mr SPEAKER: The Clerk has advised me When last debated, it exposed divided opinions that we will let the Bill be brought in and then within Government ranks. we will check whether it is in order. Mr Speaker, I believe now is the time for all Mr HEALY: In that case, I seek leave of Members to exercise commonsense, respect and compassion, and support the amendment. the House to incorporate the rest of my speech in Hansard. I commend the Bill to the House. Leave granted. Debate, on motion of Mrs Rose, adjourned. It does so in a responsible manner, one which is supported widely in the general community. When I introduced a similar Bill into this House QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE last year, I did not do it lightly. Mr J. Sommerfeld The intentions of this Bill reflect the same Mr BORBIDGE (10.30 a.m.): I refer the sentiment as I expressed when the Bill was debated and defeated last year. Premier to his lazy attempt at a smear yesterday, when he implied bias on the part of I was so greatly concerned when the a member of the press gallery because that Government chose to use its numbers to defeat person allegedly was a past president of a that legislation last year that the only option left was to try again. Liberal Party branch, and I ask: why did he tell another blatant untruth in this place? To appeal again to the Government to allow those Members on the other side of the House Mr BEATTIE: Last night I made a to support it. statement in relation to this matter to the Since the defeat of the previous Bill there has House. The matter is finalised. been ample time for reflection, and a new Minister appointed in charge of Liquor Licensing. I am hopeful, with a new attitude. Mr S. Wilson I hope the current Minister doesn't share the Mr BORBIDGE: I refer the Premier to his views of the former Minister. I know the Treasurer's disgraceful attempt yesterday to Minister displays a much more temperate attack one of Queensland's most respected attitude and I hope the current Minister firms, Wilson HTM, when he referred to responsible for Liquor Licensing has a far Porsches, number plates and all sorts of greater and more genuine desire to help benefits allegedly as a result of dealings on maintain the dignity of Anzac Day. the part of the previous Government, and I It is this hope that encourages me to believe ask— the Government will now support this Bill which is, by any standards, a Bill proposing very minor Mr Hamill: No, I didn't. amendments. Mr BORBIDGE: The net bet kid can say Its effects on licensed premises will be nil in what he likes. He got up in here yesterday and most cases, and negligible in the remainder. referred to Porsches and number plates. Now But its effects on Anzac Day could be he says that he did not do it. enormous. This is especially so this year when Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the Anzac Day falls on the last day of a five-day Opposition will ask his question. break. Mr BORBIDGE: I am coming to the Some Government Members had attacked the question. In view of the attack by the previous Bill because they say interruptions to Anzac Day dawn services have been few and Treasurer, and in spite of what he said today isolated. This is partially true. about the integrity of that company, does the Premier still have total faith and confidence in Only a couple of incidents have been reported, but to trivialise those incidents is unfair, Mr Steve Wilson as Chairman of the South irresponsible and offensive. It is believed Bank Corporation? intoxication was to blame for the reported Mr BEATTIE: Let me answer the incidents and there is every reason to believe Honourable Leader of the Opposition's similar situations could develop again. question by saying two things very clearly. 410 Questions Without Notice 15 Mar 2000

Yesterday, the Treasurer did not at any time working relationship with him, and we will raise any issues about the integrity of the continue to deliver good things for this city. Chairman of South Bank Corporation. That is the first point. The second thing I wish to say very clearly is that, yes, I do have full— Job Creation Mr Borbidge: He talked about political Mr SULLIVAN: I refer the Premier to his donations. He talked about Porsches. commitment to job creation, and I ask: can he Mr SPEAKER: Order! We will hear the inform the House of the latest job creation answer to the question. The Leader of the trends in Queensland? Opposition asked it. We will hear the answer. Mr BEATTIE: Yes, I can. I thank the Mr BEATTIE: There are two points. I have honourable member for the question. After just dealt with the first one, that is, it is simply not 20 months in office, my Government has true for the Leader of the Opposition to created 65,364 jobs for unemployed suggest that the Treasurer in any way reflected Queenslanders. My Government has created on the integrity of Mr Wilson. The second point more than 100 jobs every day for the past 20 that I wish to make absolutely clear is that, months—an average of 108 jobs a day. In yes, I do have total faith and confidence in fact, Queensland created more jobs over Steve Wilson. Although he was appointed those 20 months than were created in Victoria Chairman of South Bank Corporation, if I recall during that period. Victoria has 1.2 million correctly, under the Government of the more people than Queensland but could honourable member for Surfers Paradise, he create only 62,000 jobs—3,000 less than the was reappointed under mine on a number of jobs created in Queensland. It is no recommendation to Cabinet by me. I do not wonder that the Liberals were thrown out and support anyone's appointment to any position there was a change to a Labor Government in unless I have total confidence in that that State. individual. Let the record be very clear about Those 65,364 extra jobs have catered for this: not only do I have total and full the rapid growth in our work force and allowed confidence in Mr Wilson; no-one on my side of the unemployment rate to drop from 8.8% on Government has reflected on that. I trend, which we inherited, to now 8% on trend reappointed him because of the work that he in February 2000. The seasonally adjusted has done. rate is now 7.7%, confirming the downward Let us speak about South Bank. I am trend. Youth unemployment, which is delighted that the Leader of the Opposition unacceptably high, has fallen from 29.7% to raised the issue of South Bank. Under Mr 22.7% and has a long way to go. Long-term Wilson's stewardship and the support of my unemployment is down by 6,600. In just 20 Government, South Bank will become a new months we have achieved a drop from 8.8% to heart of this city. It will become one of the 8%, as I said. Let us compare that record with most attractive parts of Brisbane. One of the the record of the Borbidge/Sheldon things that this State has needed is a capital Government. What was the record of the which attracts tourists from around the world. Borbidge/Sheldon Government on Brisbane has always done that, but I have unemployment after 20 months of their always believed that it could do more, and it Government? will. What is being done at South Bank—the Mrs Sheldon: Excellent. arbor and so on—will make South Bank and Mr BEATTIE: Let us talk about it. this city one of the most attractive cities in the Unemployment did not fall as it has under world. It already is one of the most livable cities Labor. Unemployment rose from 9.2% to 9.3% in the world. With the redevelopment of South over the first 20 months of the Bank in conjunction with what my Government Borbidge/Sheldon Government. So it went up. is doing at Roma Street—they will be Under them, the number of unemployed combined as part of the city west Queenslanders increased by 7,700. Under precinct—along with the Cultural Centre Labor, the number of unemployed redevelopment, we will have a city heart that Queenslanders has fallen by 10,400. These will not be beaten by any city in the world. are trend figures. The seasonally adjusted South Bank is a key part of that. comparisons are even more stark. But I acknowledge—and I cannot do it unemployment trended upwards over the first anymore clearly than I have today—the role 20 months of the Nationals and Liberals. that Steve Wilson has played. He has done a Under Labor, the unemployment trend is very good job with the cooperation of my down. My Government will be working day in, Government. I personally enjoy a very good day out to keep it that way. 15 Mar 2000 Questions Without Notice 411

It is not an easy task to reduce take steps within Education Queensland to unemployment in Queensland. Our population address that particular problem. is growing faster than the national average. This is the value of the kind of information Interstate migration is taking off again and that was yielded by the KPMG research. When there is a higher participation in the labour it was recommended to me that we should force than in other States. That means that follow this particular course, I queried it. I Queensland has to create more jobs than asked the departmental officers, "This is other States to achieve the same reduction in obviously necessary research, but would it be the unemployment rate. Again, I warn the possible to negotiate a lower price?" They House that the task is getting even harder, said, "If you want to get the quality because the GST is destroying business information, then this is the way that you need confidence in this State. The business to go." It was a departmental decision; it was community had no confidence in the former not a ministerial decision. It was one with which Borbidge Government. However, business I concurred after asking that question explicitly confidence has been strong since Labor has as to whether a lower price could be been in office. But the GST is taking the wind negotiated on that research. out of the sails of small business. That means that there is an even greater need for Labor I think that when honourable members policies, such as Breaking the Unemployment see the value of the research in what the Cycle, which has created more than 12,000 honourable member for Moggill describes as a jobs. Rolls Royce operation—in fact, it was not a Rolls Royce, but merely a better functioning vehicle—they, including the honourable Department of Education, Market Research member himself, will see the value of what Project Education Queensland determined to do. Dr WATSON: I refer the Minister for Education to his approval of a market research Government Accountability Mechanisms project by KPMG last year in spite of the fact Mr PURCELL: I ask the Premier: can he that its higher tender of $391,000 was more indicate to the House the cost to than four times that of the only other tender, Queenslanders of accountability mechanisms namely, $97,000 from the highly respected that the Queensland Government has in market researcher A C Nielsen, and I ask: can place? he advise why he and his department rejected A C Nielsen's expert advice that its proposal Mr BEATTIE: I thank the honourable would provide high-quality data at a huge member for Bulimba for his question, because saving to the public purse? Can he advise why the debate about accountability that takes he approved KPMG's Rolls Royce model place from time to time, which is mostly an against A C Nielsen's family Holden model appropriate and sensible debate, is an without any assessment of their comparative important one. As part of that debate, from merits by an independent expert? time to time, as a Government we have an obligation to spell out to Queenslanders the Mr WELLS: That piece of market cost of accountability. For example, my research has already proved to be of department advises me that the total cost of considerable value to the people of the various accountability agencies is Queensland. At a later time—I have not seen something like $62,137,098. I am briefed that, the final results of the research myself—I will roughly, it goes something like this: Criminal make available a document revealing some of Justice Commission, $25,182,000; the interesting information that has become Queensland Crime Commission, $4,378,000; available to the people of Queensland as a Office of the Public Service Commissioner, result of it. $1,312,500; Auditor-General, $16,681,000; One piece of information which is Ombudsman and Information Commissioner, extremely valuable is that one of the most $5,554,000; Anti-Discrimination Commission important criteria that parents bring to bear in and Tribunal, $1,240,470; Children's the assessment of the value of the education Commission of Queensland, $1,699,000; that their children are receiving is the extent of freedom of information—this is a departmental the communication between the teachers and estimate for a whole number of reasons— the parent. Another piece of information is that $6,090,128; and it is not possible to estimate parents have the perception, whether correct the figure for judicial review at this stage. The or not, that more feedback is given to parents figures were derived from the 1999-2000 of students from private schools than those Budget and use, where available, the Budget from State schools. Consequently, we need to figures published by the Parliament in the 412 Questions Without Notice 15 Mar 2000

Ministerial Portfolio Statements. They therefore believe that this was a proper basis for the represent the best possible estimate of actual DG's recommendation and his own approval? outlays. Mr WELLS: What an extraordinary and Where a statutory body has other duties, unpleasant and gratuitous attack on an only those costs associated with review of honourable officer! When the honourable Government decision making have been member says that the director-general's included. The figures do not include the costs personal pay packet is linked, what he is of the many small appeal and review tribunals probably referring to there is the—what are across Government. Further, the costs of those documents called that the DGs have to judicial review are not included because there fill out saying that the undertakings that they is no reliable way of estimating those costs. make— The costs associated with freedom of Ms Bligh: Performance agreements. information are necessarily based on estimates provided by Government Mr WELLS: Performance agreements. departments. Given that the costs of internal Along with a whole range of other things, the review processes are very difficult to estimate, DG's performance agreement probably it is likely that the cost is understated. mentioned the 2010 program. Why would that not be there, because this is one of the In terms of the breakdown, I am briefed outcomes that was sought to be achieved? that the average cost per application in relation The whole purpose of performance contracts is to freedom of information is $724.62 for to make sure that directors-general deliver on personal and $944.27 for non-personal. I am key Government policies. disturbed when I hear from time to time that a person who has applied does not bother to The 2010 document is a key Government even turn up to pick up the material. I am initiative. It is a plan that gives us a direction in concerned about that. I will be keeping an eye which to go for the next 10 years. The fact that on that to see if that becomes a practice. As the honourable member does something honourable members know, we do not charge similar to what he has just done is actually a significant fee for freedom of information beneath him. He is known throughout the requests. As I understand it, currently it is education system as a gentleman and as a basically cost recovery. scholar. That kind of attack is not the action of a gentleman nor of a scholar. Mr Hamill: Well less. Mr Bredhauer interjected. Mr BEATTIE: Sorry, it is well less than cost recovery. It is a minimal fee. Mr WELLS: Not by the cleaners. We know about that. Mr Borbidge interjected. I table the document relating to the Mr BEATTIE: No, it is not; it is a minimal market research. Honourable members are fee. welcome to have a look at it; anybody can Clearly that is an issue that we will have to have a look at it. It indicates the grounds of keep an eye on, because the community does the recommendation. It indicates the fact that I pay the bill—that $6m—and we will need to asked, "Can you do it at a lesser price?" It look at the issue of cost recovery, etc. indicates everything. There is every good Mr SPEAKER: Order! Before calling the reason for the director-general to fulfil his member for Merrimac, I acknowledge in the obligations by getting as good a result from public gallery the teachers, parents and the 2010 material as he possibly can. students from the Fraser Coast Anglican College in the electorate of Hervey Bay. Queensland Manufacturing Sector Performance Market Research Tender; Department of Mr FENLON: I ask the Minister for State Education Development and Trade: can he outline the Mr QUINN: I refer the Minister for performance of the Queensland Education to the recommendations through manufacturing sector as opposed to that of his director-general that KPMG's $391,000 other States throughout the nineties? tender be preferred to A C Nielsen's tender of Mr ELDER: I thank the member for the $97,000. Can the Minister confirm that one of question, because it is a relevant question the reasons that his director-general opted for today. At the start of the 1990s, 161,000 the Rolls Royce model was that the DG's people were employed in the manufacturing personal pay packet was directly linked to the sector in Queensland. At the end of the outcome of this project, and does the Minister 1990s, 176,000 people were employed. That 15 Mar 2000 Questions Without Notice 413 means that 15,000 extra Queenslanders have time. They had no local industry policy. This been employed in manufacturing. Government does. This Government will work Let me just give honourable members with the trade unions. It will work with some idea of where those 15,000 new jobs employers and employer groups to keep blue- are. Five thousand are in minerals related collar jobs in this State. We are not going to manufacturing. A further 5,000 jobs are in save every job, but through the policy we are machinery and equipment manufacturing, and going to save quite a number of them. 3,000 are in printing and publishing. In food processing, as I said last night, the number of jobs has been relatively static over that period. Nanango Hospital There are roughly 37,500 people working in Mrs PRATT: My question is to the that sector. I think the most interesting thing Minister for Health, Wendy Edmond, and it about those figures is the 5,000 new jobs in relates to the loss of services in the bush and machinery and equipment manufacturing. the hospitals in the Barambah electorate. Calls The salient point is that during the 1990s to the hospitals in my electorate are usually Australia lost 124,000 jobs in manufacturing. answered with the words, "Good morning, In Queensland we actually put people on. Kingaroy Hospital", or whatever hospital it Queensland's percentage of the national might be. Most of the hospitals in the area manufacturing work force rose from 13.8% to were called on Friday and all of their phones 16.2%. So apart from being the tourism State, were answered in a similar fashion, except the mining State and the agricultural State, we one. I refer to the Nanango Hospital, which are the Smart State and we are the responded, "Good morning, Nanango Rural manufacturing State. We are the only State Health Service." Will the Minister confirm her that has actually been employing and has previous statements and pledge to the people grown during that period. It is relevant that of Nanango that no services will be lost and members of the Opposition have endeavoured that the change in title from "hospital" to "rural to climb on this bandwagon at the moment in health service" is not a reflection of an relation to the manufacturing sector. But, then intention by this Government to remove again, the whole Opposition frontbench will go services? anywhere to get a crowd, whether it is Winton or Roma. But they will not get one there today, Mrs EDMOND: I am flummoxed. I get the and I will tell them why they will not get one staff in my office to use a little variety when there today. they answer the phone. Sometimes they say, "Good morning, Health Minister's office", and Mr Borbidge: They were demonstrating sometimes they say, "Good morning. This is against you, you're going so well. the Health Minister's office." They do try to Mr ELDER: Those opposite had to go bring in that bit of variety. I can only suspect there to get a crowd. I will tell them who got that whoever was answering the phone at the bigger cheer: Pauline Hanson. Pauline Nanango Hospital felt that the people of the Hanson got a bigger cheer than those Nanango district deserved a little punch, a little opposite, my friend. Those opposite are still in excitement and a little variety in their lives. trouble in the bush, and they know it. But I will tell them why they will not get a crowd out There has been no direction from there today and why they will not be on that Queensland Health as to how hospital staff bandwagon: the only period that saw a fall in should answer phones, except that we do manufacturing employment in this State when expect them to be polite and helpful. I am glad jobs were lost was between March 1996 and to hear that they have adhered to those June 1998 when they fell from 182,500 to directions. I do not actually ring around each 173,300. The best part of 10,000 morning and tell people how to answer the Queenslanders lost their jobs in the phone in various places. There has been no manufacturing sector when those opposite change to any of the expectations of delivery were in Government. of services in the area. That was a result of the policies of the coalition Government. There was no local Goods and Services Tax; State Government industry content policy. Economic rationalists Fees and Charges from that side said that the market could resolve issues of employment in the Mr ROBERTS: My question is to the manufacturing sector. The Callide C project Treasurer. I refer him to a recent statement by and contracts with Callide C all went offshore. the Federal Treasurer, Peter Costello, in which Those opposite were in Government at the he said— 414 Questions Without Notice 15 Mar 2000

"I could not think of a single product turn our operating surplus into a deficit. But that would rise in price by the full 10% of what about the issue of State fees and the GST." charges? The same Federal Treasurer, Mr I ask: in light of this statement, what will be Costello, is taking $84m from State grants to the impact of the GST on State Government capture embedded taxation. fees and charges? The result is that, because of Treasurer Mr HAMILL: We hear a lot from Federal Costello, we have no choice but to increase Treasurer Costello about the impact of the fees and charges by a full 10% in order to GST. This House has already canvassed comply with the Federal Government's extensively the impact that the GST is having requirements. Consequently, there will be on small business. It is about time Treasurer camping charges, fees in national parks, legal Costello went out and looked at what is aid charges, inspection fees, mooring charges happening around the neighbourhoods not and so on. The list goes on and on—all only in the rural and regional areas but also in increased by 10%. With respect to a number the metropolitan areas. The Federal Treasurer of those charges, the increases will need to was also the person who said that fuel prices take place immediately because those will not rise with the GST, and neither will charges cover a 12-month period. Some of commodities. Who said that fuel is not a that time will in fact involve the period after 1 commodity? Someone on the other side, I July when the GST will be inflicted upon think. Queensland. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. I was referring to the fact that the Treasurer had Premier's Department Deputy Director- written to Mr Costello saying that he did not General; Government Advertisement want exemptions on medical equipment. Mr SPRINGBORG: My question is to the Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of order. Premier. I refer to the Premier's claim that an I call the Treasurer. advertisement printed in a southern based Mr HAMILL: When I put fuel in the car newspaper nominating a Melbourne just the other day, I noticed that the price on headhunting firm as the company handling the the bowser in Ipswich was 79c a litre. Mr appointment of the Premier's Deputy Director- Costello's GST will ensure that fuel prices go General would be reprinted in Queensland last up in Ipswich and regional areas such as those weekend nominating a Queensland firm. I ask: in the electorate of the member for Gregory. why did the Premier tell yet another untruth? Mr Hobbs: That's untrue. Mr BEATTIE: I will be gentle. Being a nice Mr HAMILL: Obviously the member for individual, I will be gentle about all these Warrego does not spend much time in his matters. There is a tendering process which is electorate. not interfered with by Government. There is an internal tendering process. Out of that Mr SPEAKER: I have warned the tendering process a certain person was member for Warrego. I now give my final successful in winning this work. When this warning. issue was raised with me in a news Mr HAMILL: The member for Warrego conference, I indicated that I had some would not have a clue what the price of fuel is concerns. Unlike the Opposition member who in places such as Cunnamulla and Charleville. asked the question, I have not had a chance But what about other claims by Federal to see the ad that appeared in Saturday's Treasurer Costello? paper. Unlike the honourable member who Mr Hobbs interjected. asked the question, I do not sit around reading the classified ads in Saturday's paper. This is a Mr SPEAKER: I now warn the member for can-do Government. We are out there doing Warrego under Standing Order 123A. things. Mr HAMILL: We have also heard from members opposite, who like the idea of the Mr Borbidge: How about just telling the Costello/Howard GST, that there will be a truth. funding bonanza, that dollars will flow to the Mr BEATTIE: What an uncharitable man. States and Territories. I want to place on Fancy Mr Borbidge talking about the truth! The record the fact that we will not see one extra Leader of the Opposition would not know the cent from the GST come into Queensland for truth if he ran into it. It is true that I made three years. In fact, the impact of the GST on certain comments in relation to this matter at a our next State Budget will cause us to have to news conference when I was asked about it. I take out a loan from the Commonwealth and have not had an opportunity to look at the ad 15 Mar 2000 Questions Without Notice 415 in Saturday's paper. I will have a look at the ad only the performance of this great Government on Saturday and I will make an appropriate but also the GST. When we return after a GST statement as a result. election, there will be a lot less Liberal and National Party members. Let me give the House a maths lesson—that is, GST equals Financial Responsibilities; Federal less Liberal and National Party members of Government Parliament. Mrs ATTWOOD: In asking a question of Mr Wells: It is algebra. the Premier I refer to recent comments by Federal Ministers that the State must take Mr BEATTIE: Okay, algebra. G-S-T financial responsibility for such things as the equals l-e-s-s Liberal and National Party regional forest agreement. I now ask: is the members of Parliament. I look forward to the Premier aware of any instances where the election when it comes. I look forward to going Federal Government is not meeting its out and telling all Queenslanders that Dr financial responsibilities? Watson stands for the GST and that Mr Borbidge stands for the GST. That is the only Mr BEATTIE: Yes, I am. These are the good news the GST has for Queensland. real issues; it is not some side, half-smart issue that does not affect people. This is about Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Speaker, I rise to a issues that are important. Honourable point of order. If the Premier believes in what members may be interested to know that the he is saying, I challenge him to call the Federal Government has slashed its spending election now. Let us sort it out now. He is the on services and special programs in one who signed the document. It is his Queensland by $1 billion in just four years. Let signature. Let him put his money where his us be clear: this is the National Party and the mouth is. Liberal Party. These are Mr Borbidge's friends. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will These are Dr Watson's friends. They are the resume his seat. ones pulling money out of Queensland. Mr BEATTIE: Since that matter has been Mr Borbidge: No-one believes a word you put to me by the Leader of the Opposition, say. that is a weighty matter that I will have to give Mr BEATTIE: The Leader of the due consideration to. Now that the Liberal and Opposition supports what they did. He said he the National Parties are calling for an early supports them. He said so then. He supports election, that is a matter I will have to think them on the GST. He supports them on— about. How many Opposition members are Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Speaker, I rise to a with him? Not a lot of them will come back if I point of order. What I said and what the take him up on his challenge. There is one Premier heard me say is that nobody believes piece of good news out of the GST; that is, the a word he says any more. election will mean fewer members opposite will come back. Mr SPEAKER: Order! Mr BEATTIE: I see. Is the Opposition Leader going to stand with me and oppose Retractable Syringes the GST? No. Miss SIMPSON: Given that the Minister Mr BORBIDGE: In response to the for Health wants to spend $50,000 of Premier, he is the one who signed the taxpayers' money developing a new document. He knocked all the other Premiers retractable syringe following the coalition's out of the way, picked up the biro and said, pledge to introduce retractable syringes into "Prime Minister, where do I sign?" That is what the State's needle availability program and he said. given that her latest excuse for failing to act on Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will this urgent problem is that she says the current resume his seat. retractable syringes are unsafe and ineffective, I ask: will the Minister advise the House as to Mr BEATTIE: The usual dishonesty! He what brands of retractable syringes she has supports the GST. tested and will she table her findings? Mr Hamill: He supports higher fuel prices. Mrs EDMOND: I did. I brought them all Mr BEATTIE: He supports higher fuel into this House last week and I showed them. prices. He supports the GST. I will do a Nostradamus for the Leader of the Opposition: Miss Simpson: No detail, Mr Speaker. I will look into the future for him. The next Mrs EDMOND: The range of people who State election campaign will be all about not were interested enough came and had a look. 416 Questions Without Notice 15 Mar 2000

Miss SIMPSON: Mr Speaker, I rise to a Mr BORBIDGE: Mr Speaker, I rise to a point of order. The Minister is misleading the point of order. Is it now acceptable in this place House. She tabled no details of brands and for a member to refer to another member as technology in that debate. "that woman"? Is that acceptable Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of parliamentary language? Mr Speaker, you order. I warn the member again about taking have pulled us up for far less and we are frivolous points of order. expecting a bit of balance from the House. Mrs EDMOND: It was another frivolous Mr SPEAKER: Order! point of order taken just to use up my time. Mr BORBIDGE: You have previously People in this House know, because quite a indicated that members should be referred to number of them came up and had a look. by their proper title. They saw that if those syringes are stepped on Mr SPEAKER: Order! You yourself accept they shatter. Not only does that leave the the name calling by members behind you. needle inside exposed but also it leaves sharp "That woman" is not an offensive term shards of hard plastic. A number of people on whatsoever. this side of the House joined us because they were interested enough to have a look. Not Mr BORBIDGE: You have previously only that— given rulings in this place— Miss Simpson interjected. Mr SPEAKER: Order! You support your members— Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will allow the Minister to answer the question. Mr BORBIDGE: that members must be referred to by their— Mrs EDMOND: I will table a letter that Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am speaking now. shows the experience of those people who are out there working in the industry in needle Mr BORBIDGE: I support fairness in this availability programs. I am happy to table a place, Mr Speaker. letter from QuIVAA, which states— Mrs EDMOND: Mr Speaker, I withdraw. Miss Simpson interjected. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for for Surfers Paradise now under Standing Order Maroochydore! 123A. He supports, and has done for some time—I have heard it in this Chamber—name Mrs EDMOND: Mr Speaker, could you calling in this place. I have said— just shut that woman up so I can have a chance at answering the question? Mr BORBIDGE: That remark is offensive and I ask that it be withdrawn. Opposition members interjected. Mr SPEAKER: No, I will not withdraw. Mr Seeney interjected. Mr BORBIDGE: Under the Standing Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member Orders, the remark you have made about me I for Callide. find offensive and I ask that it be withdrawn. Mr Hobbs interjected. Mr Speaker, under the Standing Orders you Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have warned the are required to do so. member for Warrego under Standing Order Mr SPEAKER: No, I am not. 123A. He will now leave the Chamber under Opposition members: Withdraw! Standing Order 123A(3). Mr SPEAKER: Order! You come into this Whereupon the honourable member for place all the time and you expect one rule for Warrego withdrew from the Chamber. that side and a different rule for the Mrs EDMOND: This is a deliberate ploy Government. I am saying now that— on every occasion this member asks a Mr BORBIDGE: Under the relevant question. Standing Orders of this place, if an honourable Miss SIMPSON: Mr Speaker, I rise to a member finds a remark offensive, the point of order. Mr Speaker, I am expecting you honourable member can rise and ask for that to uphold the parliamentary standards and I remark to be withdrawn. seek for that to be withdrawn as being Mr SPEAKER: Not the Speaker. Order! unparliamentary language. Resume your seat. Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of Mr BORBIDGE: I have found the order. I call the Minister. remarks— Mrs EDMOND: On every occasion— Mr SPEAKER: Order! Resume your seat. 15 Mar 2000 Questions Without Notice 417

Mr BORBIDGE:—that you have made— Mr McGRADY: I thank the honourable Mr SPEAKER: Order! Resume your seat! member for the question, because he is once again showing a keen interest in the Mr BORBIDGE:—to be offensive and development of the far north. Honourable untrue— members will recall that in August last year I Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member announced that the Government owned under Standing Order 123A. I now call the Stanwell Corporation would be developing Minister for Health. Australia's largest wind farm at Windy Hill, about 5 kilometres from Ravenshoe on the Mrs EDMOND: As I indicated earlier, I Atherton Tableland. I am pleased to inform the was happy to withdraw— House that the project is well under way. A Mrs SHELDON: Mr Speaker, I rise to a new era has begun in the production of point of order. As another female member of renewable energy in the State of Queensland. this House, I find the way the Minister In January of this year, the first two of the addressed the woman on this side of the planned 20 wind turbines were hoisted into House offensive and on behalf of all women in place. Those two turbines are now operating this House I ask that you ask her to withdraw. very well and are generating clean, green, Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is not your renewable energy into the Queensland point of order. electricity grid. Mrs EDMOND: As I have indicated Erection of the first two turbines is part of several times already, I am happy to withdraw. phase one of the wind farm project and is Also, I am happy to be called a woman. I am providing local jobs and is putting proud to be a woman in this House. approximately $2m to $3m directly into the local Ravenshoe economy. This is a significant I do draw the attention of the Speaker to occasion for the industry and for the people of a deliberate effort every time the member for Queensland. The project is providing Maroochydore asks me a question. She never renewable energy for industry and the people once has let me answer a question without of Queensland. When the 20 wind turbines are constantly interrupting and constantly taking operating—and that will be in July of this frivolous points of order. year—they will be generating some 12 As I said in this House at its last sitting, megawatts of electricity and preventing more when there was a debate on this issue, I had a than 25,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide range of syringes and needles which proved emissions being released each year. Stanwell without any doubt that what the Opposition Corporation is working closely with the local was proposing was unsafe, unsatisfactory and community in developing the Windy Hill wind a waste of public money because it would not farm. The project offers both economic and improve things one iota. At that time I had environmental benefits to the whole of that here the needles and the syringes for anyone region. When I first announced this project, we who was interested to see. As I said, a number talked about other spin-offs for the local of people who were interested, from both sides economy, particularly in the form of tourism. I of the House, came over and had a look at am advised that this is already happening. them. People are visiting the area to view this project. I table a letter from QuIVAA, which If all goes well—and I am informed that it indicates that it totally supports my findings is looking extremely positive—Stanwell will and that its clients have shown how it is easy investigate undertaking the second stage of to reuse the current retractable units through this project. This will more than double the manipulation and how it is possible for more generating capacity of the site to 25 blood to be retained in the barrel after use, megawatts of electricity. This Government is which of course makes them much more serious about the development of renewable dangerous. energy generation in Queensland. I am confident that Ravenshoe will be the Time expired. forerunner of many other significant projects of this nature right around the State. Wind Farm, Ravenshoe Mr PITT: My question is directed to the Dairy Community Assistance Program Minister for Mines and Energy. Can the Mr ROWELL: My question is directed to Minister inform the House what progress has the Minister for Primary Industries. I refer to the been made in the development of a wind farm $45m dairy community assistance program in the far north of the State? announced yesterday by the Federal coalition 418 Questions Without Notice 15 Mar 2000

Government to supplement its restructure apprentices. It is heartening to see women package for dairy farmers. I ask: now that the embracing non-traditional jobs or trades. Queensland Government has decided to Recently, when Cabinet met at Roma I deregulate the dairy industry, will the Minister had the pleasure of welcoming the new local commit to at least matching the Federal Q-Build apprentice and his family. The Government's support—yes or no? employment of this young apprentice Mr PALASZCZUK: At the outset, let me highlights the effectiveness of this program. remind the House that it was the Queensland The remainder of the new apprentices Government that took the fight to the Federal employed this year are spread throughout the Government to ensure that that package was State, from the Torres Strait to the far west. made available to displaced dairy workers and This project highlights the importance of Q- rural communities throughout Australia. I can Build as an agency, as an employer and as a also inform the House that I would not sign for trainer throughout Queensland. the deregulation of the dairy industry and I ask the House to contemplate this accept the Federal Government's deregulation question: who would have employed the package unless there was provision for the young fellow at Roma if it had not been for Q- displaced dairy workers and their rural Build? Where would that young person have communities. I am very pleased to say that the received an apprenticeship? Where would that Federal Government has finally come to the young person have received a start in life in a party and announced the package. trade had it not been for Q-Build? In relation to other assistance, let me say Mr Littleproud interjected. that I have received a letter from the Mr SCHWARTEN: I heard the derisive Queensland Dairy Organisation—the remarks made by the member for Western organisation which represents dairy farmers in Downs concerning that young fellow in his own Queensland—and basically the organisation electorate. It is very unfortunate. has said to me, "Support the Federal Government's dairy industry restructure Mr LITTLEPROUD: I rise to a point of package, support a package for rural order. I take exception to that remark. I find it communities and displaced dairy workers, and offensive and ask that it be withdrawn. nothing else." Mr SCHWARTEN: I withdraw, but I also place on record the lack of support that the honourable member has for Q-Build. Apprentice Intake, Q-Build Mr Littleproud interjected. Mr MULHERIN: My question is directed to the Minister for Public Works and Housing. I Mr SCHWARTEN: Oh, you support it now, refer the Minister to his announcement last do you? year about the apprentice intake by Q-Build for Mr LITTLEPROUD: I rise to a point of this year, and ask: can the Minister outline the order. There is no substance to the remarks success of the apprentice recruitment program made by the Minister. I find them offensive for this year? and I ask that they be withdrawn. Mr SCHWARTEN: This week I had the Mr SCHWARTEN: His silence on the issue pleasant task of welcoming some 90 new when we had the Liberals attacking Q-Build apprentices into the Queensland Department last year— of Works. Yesterday, we held a function here Opposition members: Withdraw! at Parliament House at which just over half of Mr SCHWARTEN: I will withdraw it. His those new apprentices from the greater silence during the Liberals' attack on Q-Build Brisbane area were able to share the joyous last year was deafening. He never once stood occasion of the first day of their indentures with up for Q-Build. He never once stood up for the us. I thank honourable members from this side workers in his own electorate. He is like Ziggy of the Parliament who joined with the Switkowski from Telstra. We now have the apprentices and their families on that privileged few squawking about Telstra. Does occasion. that not strike a nice old rev? Those opposite The intake included some eight school- are talking about Telstra being privatised when based apprentices. Q-Build is very interested in their mob in Canberra voted for it. What were working with Education Queensland and TAFE those opposite going to do when they were on in developing an appropriate protocol. Last this side of the House? They were going to year's intake proved to be very successful, and privatise Q-Build! There is nothing to suggest I am sure that will be the case again this year. that they would not do that if they were in Four women are included among the 90 Government because time and time again I 15 Mar 2000 Questions Without Notice 419 have asked for their policy on this matter but process will be that every land-holder in they have never laid it down. Queensland will take and share responsibility for the long-term environmental outcomes in protecting the land and the sustainability of the Vegetation Management Act rural industries that depend on it. Dr PRENZLER: My question is directed to the Minister for Natural Resources. I refer to the Vegetation Management Act. Can the Technology Industries Minister explain to the House why maps Mr WILSON: I direct a question to the produced by officers of his department at his Minister for Employment, Training and so-called public consultation meetings can be Industrial Relations. Can he inform the House so inaccurate in defining areas of vegetation of of initiatives that will provide Queenslanders concern? Can the Minister tell the House since with the opportunity to gain skills in the when have stands of black wattle and lantana emerging technology industries? on Mount French near Boonah become Mr BRADDY: It is very important indeed to endangered ecosystems? note that our Government has identified the Mr WELFORD: The maps that will be need to ensure that Queensland is at the used for vegetation management planning are forefront of training in information technology, maps which will be developed in further because the growth of electronic commerce in consultation with the regional vegetation the world has outpaced even the most planning committees. Those committees will optimistic predictions, with global business-to- do ground-proofing of the maps of all the business Internet commerce projected to regional areas in consultation with local land- reach more than $2 trillion dollars by 2003. holders and local communities. In fact, a recent report commissioned by We know that some of the mapping that my department highlighted a shortage of is currently available is in draft form, and it is skilled IT graduates in a number of key areas. made very clear at the forums that I have These included software engineering, been conducting that those maps are in draft networking and Internet technology, and form. Some of them are based on satellite technical skills in the telecommunications and mapping and aerial photography undertaken electronic sectors. These skills shortages occur by the previous Government and are now a at a time when the turnover for Queensland's couple of years old. IT&T industry is estimated to be more than $8 The determination of what vegetation billion a year and growing at a rate of 12% a communities are in various conservation year. So electronic commerce is already—and categories—whether they be endangered, or has the potential to become even more of concern, or not of concern—is a matter that so—the vehicle for creating new markets for has been determined largely at this stage by business, providing better product and pricing advice from the Queensland Herbarium. choices for consumers and contributing However, again, the assessment of those substantially to economic growth. categories, if they need to be revised or looked Therefore, it is vital that Queensland is at in the case of any particular bioregion, can well positioned to take full advantage of this be undertaken by the regional planning revolution. Two recent initiatives are indicative process. of the Beattie Labor Government's So I urge the honourable member that, commitment to providing training opportunities instead of taking cheap shot pots at the — in this vital field. The first one is a new course that will start next Monday, 20 March, at the Dr PRENZLER: I rise to a point of order. Cooloola Sunshine Institute of TAFE. This will That was a cheap insult. I find that disgusting. be a one-year, full-time diploma of information I ask the Minister to withdraw it. These people technology specialising in e-commerce that will are concerned out there. They have seen— ensure that opportunities are made available Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will for students to participate in one of the world's not debate the issue. The Minister will fastest growing industry sectors. This new withdraw. hands-on course is nationally recognised and Mr WELFORD: I withdraw the shot pots. I accredited and will be delivered in a state-of- encourage the honourable member to at least the-art computer training facility in Noosa. attempt, if it is possible for him to do so, to The second major development in take a constructive approach to this exercise technology training is the establishment of the and to encourage people to be involved in the Brisbane Institute of TAFE's information planning process so that the outcome of the technology career centre. The centre, which is 420 Questions Without Notice 15 Mar 2000 located at the Ithaca campus, will play a key numbers of machines that may be located at role in providing training and support for the those venues. information technology industry. It features a The green paper process has also been new delivery strategy designed to meet very important. There has been widespread customer demand for on-campus, off-campus, community consultation. Indeed, a large CD-ROM and Internet learning options. The number of submissions have been received centre will also provide short, intensive courses from individuals in the broader Queensland for IT professionals or people wanting to community, from a range of organisations and upgrade their skills in computer software welfare groups, and also, of course, from packages. interests associated with gaming in the The Brisbane Institute of TAFE has community. Currently, I am collating all of formed strategic partnerships with a variety of those responses. It is my intention to have industry partners to improve the quality of those matters before Cabinet for its training and extending the reach of the consideration in the near future. institute's program and services. This is what However, I want to say this: a number of TAFE, with the backing of the Beattie the submissions that have come forward from Government, does best—developing alliances the community in respect of the licensing with key enterprises and industry groups to process reflect the views that have been ensure— outlined by the honourable member in his Time expired. question. I envisage an opportunity for members of the community to have a direct Mr SPEAKER: Before calling the member input into licensing arrangements in the future. for Albert, I recognise in the public gallery When I say "direct input", I think that there are students, parents and teachers from the Kippa some examples that can be drawn from the Ring State School in the electorate of experience of liquor licensing that could well be Murrumba. adopted in relation to gaming. As the honourable member would know, in relation to Gaming new licensed premises there is an opportunity for members of the community to have a direct Mr BAUMANN: I direct a question to the input by making a statement or a submission Treasurer. I note that, while no final policy to the Liquor Licensing Division. I think that a decision has been taken on the future extent parallel process would add real value to the of gaming in Queensland, I have been workings of the gaming commission. receiving letters from the Queensland Office of Gaming Regulation seeking my views, as a So let me assure the honourable member local member, in respect of applications for that his submissions and submissions similar gaming machine licences. I ask the Treasurer: to his have been received, are being does he agree that it is also important that, considered, and the Government is when considering social issues related to determined to ensure a great community gaming, members of the public have a real outcome as a result of our green paper and fully informed opportunity to state their consultations. views? Will the Treasurer advise the House whether—and, if so, when—the Government Life Education will introduce a public process through which the community can be informed of applications Mrs NITA CUNNINGHAM: I ask the for increased numbers of gaming machines Minister for Education: is he aware of an article and installation? in the Bundaberg News-Mail in which Peter Fox calls on the Parliament to reconsider the Mr HAMILL: I thank the honourable decision not to provide additional funding to member for the question. In fact, he raises a Life Education after the three-year agreement very important issue. As a result of the expired? unanimous support of the House for Mr WELLS: I am aware of the article in amendments that I brought to the Machine the Bundaberg News-Mail. Gaming Act before Christmas, there has been established by the gaming commission a direct Mr BEANLAND: I rise to a point of order. consultative process involving members of That very issue is in a motion before the Parliament. That also involves local authorities, Parliament. because there has been a real demand in the Mr SPEAKER: But it is not on the Notice community for greater community input into Paper. The idea of those motions in the decisions not only in relation to the sites where morning is to extend debate, not to restrict it, machine gaming is taking place but also to the otherwise we would not be able to debate 15 Mar 2000 Privilege 421 anything in this House as somebody could PRIVILEGE come into this House and say, "Police powers Contract Tendering is on", or whatever. There is no point of order. Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers Mr WELLS: At the time that the member Paradise—NPA) (Leader of the Opposition) for Merrimac entered into a contract with Life (11.31 a.m.): I rise on a matter of privilege. Education, he was aware of the principles for This morning the Treasurer implied that during drug education in schools—a document that his answer to a question in this place later became the basis of a ministerial council yesterday he had not criticised a number of position. These principles include, firstly, that companies and individuals. My question drug education is best taught in the context of related to Wilson HTM. A perusal of page 320 the school health curriculum; secondly, that of yesterday's Hansard reveals that the drug education in schools should be Treasurer named Wilson HTM, Morgans, and conducted by the teacher of the health Were and Sons. He then went on to talk about curriculum; and, thirdly, that drug education secret lobbying, secret and exclusive dealings programs and resources should be selected to and financial kickbacks. The Treasurer said— complement the role of the classroom teacher "Sometime before 26 August 1996, with selected external resources enhancing, representatives of stockbroking houses Wilson not replacing, that role. HTM, Morgans, and Were and Sons met with the then Treasurer and her Treasury officials to That position was reflected in a press lobby secretly ..." release that was put out by the then Minister, the member for Merrimac. In it he said that He went on to say— drug education was already compulsory in "I would like to know who benefited theory, but research showed that many out of these secret and exclusive students were missing out. He stated further dealings. On whose authority was there that health and physical education was now no tender?" one of our eight key learning areas and, as He went on to say— such, the new syllabus and specified "The story doing the rounds down at outcomes would be compulsory. Further, he Eagle Street was that one broker was stated that the final document will be available able to purchase a new Porsche as a from the start of next year. result of this deal ..." In the meantime, he entered into this He went on to say— contract with Life Education. We have "There is also the issue of financial completed the work that the honourable kickbacks." member for Merrimac began. We have Clearly, the Treasurer of this State has completed the health and physical education smeared those companies. He has smeared syllabus. We are now able to move to the the principles of those companies under recommendations on which his three-year parliamentary privilege. He has done so falsely contract was premised, that is, it was going to and in a cowardly fashion, and he should have be phased out over three years. the decency and the courtesy to publicly Life Education is a franchise operation. It apologise. runs from a national franchise holder based in Sydney. The Queensland franchisee is based PRIVILEGE on the Gold Coast and the Life Education Contract Tendering Foundation Centre of Queensland Inc. is at Broadbeach. The funding negotiated by the Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich—ALP) member for Merrimac was by way of a grant (Treasurer) (11.35 a.m.): I rise on a matter of covering three years only. There are 19 privilege. It is typical of the Leader of the subfranchises Statewide, mostly run by Opposition to selectively quote from any volunteers. It should also be remembered that document or any reference which he has Life Education, as a franchise operation, before him. In addition to the issues raised charges between $4 and $6 per student per and the reflections cast on me by the Leader visit. It also does not have full coverage of the of the Opposition, let me quote from the record those elements which are not State, nor does it significantly provide convenient for the Leader of the Opposition to professional development for teachers. use in support of his assertions. I said— Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time allocated "I am not questioning the capacity of for questions has now expired. these people to"— 422 Privilege 15 Mar 2000

Mr Borbidge: I am happy to read out the PRIVILEGE whole lot. If the Treasurer was a man, he Contract Tendering would apologise. Hon. P. D. BEATTIE (Brisbane Central— Mr HAMILL: I quote further from the ALP) (Premier) (11.38 a.m.): I rise on a matter record— of privilege. The Treasurer's position on this "I am not questioning the capacity of issue was very clear yesterday. It is only these people to do the work. They have through the mischievous dishonesty of the done good work for us, too. I am Opposition and its reinterpretation of any questioning why they— matter that it does not want to agree with that the former Government— we end up with a nonsense debate like this. The Leader of the Opposition could not tell the "let a contract without a tender." truth if his life depended on it. If we ever find I also stated that it was interesting that one of the truth and the Leader of the Opposition in the key elements— the one room at the same time, it will be an An Opposition member interjected. extraordinary day for Queensland. Let me make it clear: I stand by my Treasurer on this Mr HAMILL: I did not name the firm in matter. question. It was the Opposition which made connections that one of the key elements Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. made a $35,000 donation to the Liberal Party The Premier should not judge me by his own following the awarding of this contract. Those standards. I find that remark offensive. I ask are matters that are on the public record. This that it be withdrawn. demonstrates the hypocrisy of the Leader of Mr BEATTIE: He can rest assured that I the Opposition. He casts aspersions on Peter will never do that. Forster for attending a Labor Party function Mr BORBIDGE: I ask that that comment and claims that was special treatment when be withdrawn. his own Government allowed exclusive dealings to occur, awarding multimillion-dollar Mr BEATTIE: I withdraw. contracts without any opportunity for any other Mr Seeney: Didn't they teach you that people to participate in the contract process. when they gave you that job. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I know The remark in respect of Mr Forster is untrue 123A, pal. They taught me that. and offensive, and I ask that it be withdrawn. Mr SEENEY: I rise to a point of order. I Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Kaiser): object to being addressed as your "pal". I ask Order! The Treasurer will withdraw. that that be withdrawn. Mr HAMILL: I withdraw anything that may Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I withdraw. It was have reflected upon the character of Mr an error of judgment. Forster that I alleged was said by the Leader Mr BEATTIE: Let me conclude by saying of the Opposition. All I ask is for the Leader of this: this is nothing more than a cheap stunt. I the Opposition to tell the whole truth and stand by everything the Treasurer has said. He nothing but the truth. has been consistent. In the question asked by Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. the Leader of the Opposition today, I made This man, who has smeared some of the my view very clear in relation to Steve Wilson. I finest business firms in this city, should now stand by everything that I have said about apologise to them for accusing them of being that. The Treasurer has quite legitimately involved in secret lobbying, secret and raised this issue. Why do we have this exclusive dealings and financial kickbacks—his sensitivity? Why are those opposite so words, not mine. sensitive about this? Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! There is Opposition members interjected. no point of order. Mr BEATTIE: Here they go, disrupting the Mr HAMILL: If the Leader of the Parliament. They have no respect for the Opposition would stick to the truth, he would institution. None of them has any respect for note that I was accusing his Government and this institution. They will try to use this place as his Ministers of entering into dealings when much as they can to discredit any individual. they ought to have had a competitive process The Leader of the Opposition, who could not to consider other submissions with respect to lie straight in bed, will try to use anything he the very valuable work that they were can to destroy any person in here. He would awarding. disrupt a church service if he thought there 15 Mar 2000 Transport (Busway and Light Rail) Amendment Bill 423 was a vote in it. Let the Parliament determine Second Reading this issue. The Treasurer has acted properly. Hon. S. D. BREDHAUER (Cook—ALP) (Minister for Transport and Minister for Main Roads) (11.41 a.m.): I move— PRIVILEGE "That the Bill be now read a second Contract Tendering time." Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers The objective of this Bill is to provide for a Paradise—NPA) (Leader of the Opposition) range of amendments to Acts administered by (11.39 a.m.): The Premier was not in the the Department of Transport. Specifically, this Chamber when I quoted the words of the Bill provides for the facilitation of infrastructure Treasurer. If the Premier is in any doubt development for two new major transport whatsoever that his Treasurer has smeared modes in Queensland—busway and light rail the good name and reputation of some of systems. The initial focus of the operation of Brisbane's finest firms and finest the legislation will be the development of a businesspeople, I refer him to page 320 of light rail system for Brisbane, and the ongoing yesterday's Hansard. development of Brisbane's system of busways. However, the legislation will be generic and What we have seen is a gutless Premier can be utilised throughout urbanised areas of who will not discipline a Treasurer who has Queensland where circumstances may warrant indulged in an act of massive political these modes of infrastructure. cowardice in an attempt to score some points off the most successful privatisation that this The Integrated Regional Transport Plan State has ever seen. The answers to the for south-east Queensland was released in Treasurer's queries were more than April 1997. The IRTP proposes an increase in appropriately responded to by the former the number of public transport trips by over Treasurer and the member for Caloundra this 150% by the year 2011 to support significant morning. population growth and maintain quality of life in south-east Queensland by improving If the Treasurer had any decency accessibility and increase the 490,000 daily whatsoever, he would get up in this place and trips to 1.2 million daily trips. apologise to those companies and those Light rail for Brisbane will assist in meeting individuals for the very definite inference which the Government's Integrated Regional was his answer yesterday and which is now on Transport Plan targets. The momentum for a the public record in Hansard for all time. light rail network has arisen from increased Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! There inner-city living, urban renewal and the need have been matters of privilege raised. I will for an integrated land use transport vision for confer with the Speaker, and either he or I will Brisbane. It will alleviate congestion while respond to the Parliament at a later date. enhancing the overall image and accessibility of Brisbane. The light rail provides significant benefits to residents of south-east Queensland TRANSPORT (BUSWAY AND LIGHT RAIL) in terms of improved public transport facilities. AMENDMENT BILL In the past few years, Brisbane's inner Hon. S. D. BREDHAUER (Cook—ALP) suburbs have grown significantly as people (Minister for Transport and Minister for Main have realised the benefits of inner-city living. Roads) (11.40 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I The resultant demand on retail, commercial, move— cultural and entertainment facilities is being catered for by the Government's Integrated "That leave be granted to bring in a Regional Transport Plan, which has recognised Bill for an Act to amend Acts administered the changing patterns of transport use. by the Minister for Transport and Minister Improving public transport so as to for Main Roads." provide a realistic alternative to private car Motion agreed to. travel is the most important transport issue facing south-east Queensland. If people can count on high-quality, safe, reliable, secure, First Reading affordable and frequent public transport, they will be able to rely less on cars, freeing up Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and valuable road space and avoiding the need to Bill, on motion of Mr Bredhauer, read a first construct major new roads to accommodate time. peak private vehicle demands. 424 Transport (Busway and Light Rail) Amendment Bill 15 Mar 2000

Trips in and around Brisbane City are compensation is available to land-holders or expected to increase by 60% to over one occupier who as a consequence of light rail million trips daily by 2011. Preliminary studies establishment have a clear diminution of their have indicated that a light rail network has the physical access arrangements to and from the potential to move over 45,000 passengers per road network. In the legislation, compensation day by the year 2002 and 50,000 by the year is not provided in relation to a number of 2011, and would reduce the environmental matters, for example, for a loss of amenity or impacts of transport demands in the city any interference with an activity of a business, centre. The light rail network will provide an commercial, industrial or residential nature. inner-city distribution function, linking nearby Clearly, if compensation was available for all residential, commercial and industrial centres. matters then the undertaking of major A light rail network will benefit tourists travelling transport infrastructure projects by the State in the city and promote business growth would not be viable. through the improved access to the central I am aware that some concerns have business district's retail core provided by the been raised by the Property Council regarding network. the Brisbane Light Rail Project. Queensland The key modal interchanges with the Transport has held meetings with the Property busway, ferry and rail systems and the use of Council and a further briefing is scheduled for integrated ticketing recently announced by this later this month. There is also a standing offer Government mean seamless transfers to all property holders along the route to between public transport modes, with one discuss unresolved concerns with the project ticket to be used on all modes of transport. team. I am confident that we can work Light rail systems have the potential to reduce together to resolve all outstanding issues. air and noise emission levels in the inner city, Accreditation of Light Rail Managers and as well as reduce traffic volumes and Operators congestion with an increased public transport usage. A range of travel markets will be A framework for an accreditation scheme served, including commuter, recreational, for light rail managers and operators will tourist, shopping, students and other trips to operate in a similar fashion to the legislative the inner suburbs. Although these are features scheme for accreditation of heavy rail of a light rail system for Brisbane, this managers and operators such as Queensland legislation will amend the Transport Rail and will be administered by Queensland Infrastructure Act 1994 to facilitate the Transport. development of light rail wherever there is a Incident Management public transport demand. I will give a brief The framework for incident management outline of the key features addressed by the has been referenced from provisions for the legislation for light rail systems. management of heavy rail incidents. Under Tenure these provisions, as Minister, where I consider The light rail tenure arrangements are a serious incident has occurred I will be able to based on the heavy rail model in the Transport establish or re-establish a board of inquiry Infrastructure Act. The process begins, about an incident that has happened on or however, with a declaration of light rail land involving a light rail system. As Minister, I will which is also unallocated State land. There is be given a report of the board's findings, which then a lease of the unallocated State land contain the recommendations the board from the Governor in Council to the State on considers appropriate and other relevant behalf of the Department of Transport. There matters. is provision for a sublease of the leased light The Granting of Authorities for Persons to rail land from the Department of Transport to a Conduct Preliminary Investigatory Works light rail manager. Once again, the heavy rail legislative Public Utility Interaction model has been a source of reference for the The legislation provides for the chief purposes of the light rail legislation. The executive and a light rail manager to control legislation provides for the chief executive to access to light rail land where a utility owner issue an authority to a person seeking to enter may request entry to light rail land to land to investigate the land's potential for the undertake activities in relation to their utilities. development of light rail transport infrastructure. Among other matters, the Compensation Entitlements person must be able to show that entry to the Compensation is a feature of some of the land could not be successfully negotiated with provisions in the legislation. In particular, the affected persons for the land. These 15 Mar 2000 Transport (Busway and Light Rail) Amendment Bill 425 preliminary investigatory powers are also on a road after exiting the busway. Busway applicable to persons seeking an appropriate routes will be able to be extended to meet authority to enter land and to investigate the urban growth. As passenger demand or land's potential for busway transport congestion on a particular road increases, a infrastructure development. busway can be extended. The system of Many people have seen the light rail busways that is being developed will assist with systems that operate in Europe and the United this plan by ensuring that buses travelling States. This modern electric rail technology along a dedicated busway corridor will be more operates either on street or in a dedicated right efficient than is currently the case where buses of way. A common feature of successful light are mingled with general traffic. rail projects is their integration with an urban Often, buses running in mixed traffic are development strategy to concentrate unable to gain a sufficient advantage to attract passenger demands along the route. The the number of passengers needed to meet environmentally friendly form of public the targets for increased public transport use. transport is cleaner, quieter and beneficial to Buses face increasing congestion and are the health of the people in high-density unable to offer a service good enough to urbanised areas. Electric power means that compete with the car. The development of the the light rail vehicles do not release pollutants busway will enhance bus operations. The into the atmosphere. Features common to dedicated busway corridors with properly light rail systems include rolling stock which is dedicated, landscaped stopping bays will be fully accessible and airconditioned, and a able to run consistently to timetables, ensuring sophisticated suspension system ensures a commuters of a smooth, efficient trip without smooth, comfortable ride. the need to drive themselves. Buses will not Public transport also has major social have to compete with general traffic. benefits in providing transport for those who, The Brisbane Busway Plan, initially for whatever reason, do not drive a car. For conceived by the Brisbane City Council, has those that do, an aim of busway and light rail been broadened into the SEQ Regional systems is to provide public transport of such a Busway Network. This system can build on the standard that no household in the region has already strong role of buses in the regional to run two or more cars in order to meet the transport system and provide the necessary household's travel needs. It is estimated that improvements to system capacity and travel running a small second car can cost up to times in a cost effective way. The links in the $7,000 per year, or $135 per week, when all busway network have been chosen for costs are considered. By facilitating busway corridors not served by rail. Feeder bus and light rail infrastructure this legislation will be services will serve both busway and rail an important platform in encouraging people stations. Again, although these are features of not to purchase a second vehicle or to leave busways for Brisbane, the amendments to the their vehicles at home. Transport Infrastructure Act 1994 will provide There are other important reforms with for this infrastructure to be facilitated respect to busway transport infrastructure. It throughout the State wherever there is a public can be said that in many respects the busway transport demand. legislation mirrors the provisions of the light rail One of the key platforms of the Beattie legislation. With regard to tenure, a declaration Labor Government has been the importance of busway land which is also unallocated State of job creation, and this Bill is again evidence land sees a lease of the unallocated State of this Government getting on with the job. land from the Governor in Council to the State Estimates in the Brisbane Busway Strategy on behalf of the Department of Transport. For report included the creation of 21,000 person now, it is envisaged that the chief executive will years of employment from busway be primarily responsible for the construction, construction. Generally, the South East Transit management and operation functions for Project has 800 people employed, and this is busways. Other than in this respect the expected to grow to 1,400 by mid 2000. features of the busway legislation are Contractors used must adhere to the 10% comparable to the light rail legislation, with training policy. similar provisions for public utility interaction The Brisbane Light Rail project estimated and compensation entitlements. total generated employment as 1,200 person The busway is a dedicated transport years of employment during infrastructure infrastructure system, featuring passenger construction, with 80 permanent jobs during stations for buses only. As opposed to rail operation and 300 person years of modes, a bus will have the flexibility to travel employment in rolling stock manufacture. 426 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

Apprenticeship training for heritage tram Every operational member of the restoration at North Point TAFE is included, as Police Service has been extensively the 10% apprenticeship training policy will be trained and resourced for the required of the contractor. The Transport responsibility of performing their duties Infrastructure Act 1994 and the Transport under the new Act in a professional Planning and Coordination Act 1994 will be manner." amended to ensure that Queensland Transport is sufficiently empowered to facilitate As I said, he goes on to give it a big tick. and manage these two very important reforms I will quote some more of that later, which will be of huge benefit to Queensland. I because some of us remember those times, commend this Bill to the House. and remember them well. That legislation, Debate, on motion of Mr Johnson, which was passed under the Borbidge adjourned. Government, was landmark legislation. For the first time it spelt out the rights and responsibilities of police and the rights of the POLICE POWERS AND RESPONSIBILITIES community. In essence, the legislation levelled BILL the playing field between law-breakers and law Second Reading enforcers. Resumed from 14 March (see p. 380). For the current Minister to falsely claim Hon. T. R. COOPER (Crows Nest—NPA) that the 1997 Act was "little more than a (11.52 a.m.), continuing: Mr Deputy Speaker, I milestone in a lengthy and arduous process" is too, acknowledge your presence in the chair. I a slur on all those people involved and, I think, could see that one coming this morning and I shows him to be a very lazy, very ungracious wanted to see how you would go. I think that follower. I say "follower" because that is exactly you will find that seat as well as other seats in what he did and still does. He has not had the this Parliament make it one of the unique vision or the intelligence to initiate places in the world. Do not lose your sense of groundbreaking law and order policy as the humour, Mr Deputy Speaker. Whenever Borbidge Government did. The police powers anything like that happens, I just say to myself, Act was only one of the many major coalition "I would not be dead for quids." It can be fun. initiatives in the Police and Correctives You have to see some enjoyment in this Services portfolio that has set the course for place. law and order in Queensland for years to come. Unfortunately, the Minister has virtually Turning to the Police Powers and followed our lead and has been rather petulant Responsibilities Bill 2000, I want to continue as far as his remarks about the current quoting the commissioner's foreword, which I legislation that he has introduced are was doing when my speech was interrupted concerned. To my mind, people should be big last night. I will continue with what he said in enough to recognise when another reiterating his support and in acknowledging Government has actually done the work and that the Act was passed in 1997 and has now achieved something and should not try to been gazetted. He went on to say— belittle that. He should grow up. "In 1997, extensive consultation was undertaken with the community. Public The Act, as we know, enhanced police forums were conducted by the Minister at powers, having consolidated 90 pieces of 10 regional centres throughout legislation into the one Act. As I said, everyone Queensland, and the Police Powers and knows that that was done back in 1997. As Responsibilities Bill 1997 was has been reiterated, that Act allowed for covert subsequently passed by State searches of premises and the use of Parliament. surveillance devices for serious offences, and gave police the power to direct people away The Police Powers and from notified zones, such as railway stations, Responsibilities Act 1997, and the schools, child-care centres and so on. There Responsibilities Code, is seen as the most are about seven such zones and we very important piece of legislation to affect the deliberately left the list open-ended. We did Queensland Police Service and its not want to name every notified area members since the Fitzgerald Report. throughout the State. We wanted very much The implementation of the Act will for local government, through the Minister, to enhance the already positive relationship be able to specifically declare problem areas generally enjoyed between members of as notified areas. That is the way that we the Service and the people they serve. believe it should happen. 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 427

I notice that the Minister is extending that concerned, we have taken a bipartisan provision. That comes about through approach on this and that has given us some consultation and through finding out from good legislation. As I have said, the way that people in local authorities just what areas that legislation was put together back in 1997 should be declared as notified areas and for and continues on today is the way in which how long. I recall that at the time the original legislation should come together. I believe it is Bill was being debated, the Minister and his a model for others to follow and that members parliamentary colleagues wanted it to include a opposite should not carry on with the stupid general move-on power right across the State. point scoring that we have seen occurring. We decided that no, we would not go that far; I turn now to comments made on 18 we would make it apply to those seven areas November 1997 by the current Minister when and then, as I said, people could write to the he was shadow Minister. Admittedly, I am Minister seeking permission for other areas to quoting selectively, but it was the general tone be declared as notified areas. I think that that of his address when he said, "Labor strongly was a good idea. I know that some local supports the consolidation of police powers authorities criticised that restriction at the time. into one Act." The Minister went on to say— But in my opinion, those who criticised it at that time were failing in their responsibilities to "I give credit where credit is due: this recognise that they might have problem areas was a comprehensive consultation, even and that they might have to make some though there were a few flaws which were judgments for themselves and stand up for possibly unavoidable. I thank the Minister their constituents as well, which is what they and his staff for the courtesies and are elected to do. I believe that that particular cooperation shown to myself and other part of the legislation is working extremely well. Opposition members and to the interest groups that participated. Visiting 10 major Another provision was the power to centres over a period of 14 days was a detain, which enables police to question significant commitment, and the suspects for a reasonable period. We did a lot discussion paper of 119 pages is a of soul-searching on that provision during our significant document." consultations right around the State. We found that there was support for it as long as That discussion paper emanated from those stringent conditions were put in place that did lengthy consultations. We again went through not allow for that power to detain to be the process of what we had learnt from people abused. We altered that proposal as we went after we had visited them in formulating the around and we talked amongst ourselves, that legislation, which was proclaimed. That is how is to say, the civil libertarians and the hardliners the original legislation was drafted. as well as the Government and the As I have said, law and order is an Opposition. We were able to come up with a important issue. We made quite a number of set of circumstances that we found acceptable changes to the legislation. Some of it related and that the Parliament found acceptable. I to roadblocks. As has already been said in this believe that that provision, too, is working. House, police did not have the appropriate Other provisions included obtaining power to ask for the name and address of a documents from third parties by issuing notices person stopped at a roadblock. Apparently to produce and issuing notices to appear as that caused some consternation among civil an alternative to arrest. I am told by the libertarians. Why on earth it should, I will never police—and they have ticked off on everything know. A person who gives their name and that I have said today and yesterday—that the address only has to worry when they have notice to appear provision has been very well something to hide. A lot of people know where accepted. I live. Even the gun lobby knows where I live The establishment of the Public Interest as my name and address is on their Internet Monitor has been applauded by stakeholders site. as a first for Australia and possibly the Quite frankly, it does not bother me one Commonwealth. The current Bill was iota if they know where I live. I am very rarely developed following an unprecedented public home. If any of them call at my house, they consultation process of which the Minister was might not find me there, but they might bump part, as I have said. All of us, I believe, were into my wife. I would not recommend that, involved in the hard work. I want to say: forget because I reckon she could handle anyone, about this petty, childish point scoring and especially if they were there for illegal recognise that this Bill follows on from our purposes. I did not mean to get into that issue, legislation. I recognise that this legislation was but it does get me going. I do not regard those necessary and that it is good. As far as we are people as being very courageous at all when 428 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 they come at that. Giving a name and address are quite significant. As the debate has is no big deal. If a person has nothing to hide, already commenced, the shadow Minister it could be a good thing; it would set the does not have the opportunity to raise those person concerned on their way without having concerns, except during debate on the to be questioned even further and more clauses. There is also the problem of having closely. adequate time to consult appropriately in The Opposition spokesman, the member relation to these matters. for Toowoomba South, has made it clear Some serious issues have been raised in where our support for the legislation lies. He relation to the way in which some of the has made it clear that there will be a couple of wording has been changed. There are some amendments, which I support. We as an 390 clauses in this Bill and some four Opposition have had a good discussion about Schedules covering some 371 pages. This is this Bill. I reiterate what I have said: in major quite a large Bill. It will take people time to go legislation such as this—I would say all through it and to consult; they need to go legislation, but I recognise that it would be very through the legislation clause by clause. The hard to stop political point scoring in a House changing of one or two words can have a of Parliament—it would be nice if we could put significant effect on people's civil liberties and the interests of the Parliament and the people the powers of police. It can alter the way in first and leave the point scoring clean out of it. which people are treated by police in the event If we do that, we will find that the legislation will that the police suddenly arrive on their be far better and there will be far more doorstep in relation to one matter or another. cooperation from all sides of Parliament. In the This is very important legislation as end, it will be the people who are the winners. I regards our civil liberties. It is legislation which commend the Bill. requires members' attention to the detail of the Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly—LP) individual clauses. Therefore, it is disappointing (12.03 p.m.): I rise to join the debate on the that the Alert Digest arrived after debate on Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill and to the Bill had commenced. We have been given raise a number of issues. I particularly want to no reason at all for that by either the Scrutiny recognise the former speaker, the member for of Legislation Committee, which produces the Crows Nest, who was the Minister responsible Alert Digest, or by the Government. for the introduction of this legislation in 1997 Nevertheless, that is the situation. under the former Borbidge/Sheldon The first issue that I raise relates to clause Government. As has been mentioned, this 163, which deals with a threshold test. It is fair legislation has been around for some to say that the current situation is that, under considerable time, but the member for Crows the legislation, reasonable belief is a Nest devoted a great deal of time and requirement. What we are talking about here attention to the matter so that the legislation are standards and tests before the law. In the could be brought into the Parliament and Alert Digest, the Scrutiny of Legislation passed. This consolidating legislation in Committee said— relation to the Police Service will be good for the public. The Bill that the current "... the committee noted the difference in Government and Minister are bringing forward the standards of 'reasonable suspicion' today is amending legislation. It is largely and 'reasonable belief'. It is accepted in finetuning legislation, but there are other the bill itself that they connote different issues as well. It does contain a couple of criteria." significant changes that are certainly well They certainly do. The Alert Digest goes on to beyond what could be regarded as finetuning. state— It is fair to say that the most disappointing "As the High Court in George v. aspect of this debate is that it started Rockett observed, the latter standard is yesterday when the Scrutiny of Legislation more difficult to satisfy than the former. Committee had not yet produced its Alert This is implicitly recognised in the bill itself Digest, which it has tabled today. A range of where the two standards are applied in issues have been raised in that Alert Digest, relation to different provisions. For some of which I and other members have example, in moving the provisions of picked up on. The shadow Minister has also arrest of persons on bail from the Bail Act picked up on some of those issues, but 1980 to the bill, it is noted that the unfortunately the shadow Minister has made standard of satisfaction has been his contribution in this debate. There are some lessened from reasonable belief to 17 issues, and some aspects of those issues reasonable suspicion." 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 429

The committee then draws its attention to that withdraw these scurrilous allegations that we fact. The report then deals with the same opposed those provisions. clause but a different section of the clause, Mr BEANLAND: I am happy to withdraw that is, 163(1)(k), and I refer to page 120 of whatever upset the Minister. Hansard records the Alert Digest relating to the nature and the that the Labor Party voted against those seriousness of the offence. provisions in relation to juvenile justice. This The committee again expresses its section relates to those provisions. This is concern that it is lawful to arrest a person for exactly what I am talking about. The juvenile any offence where it is reasonably necessary justice laws are covered in this section of the because of the nature and seriousness of the Bill because this refers to it. There is nothing offence. The committee has previously noted peculiar about that. I do not understand why that the Criminal Code addressed the issue by the Minister is so sensitive. Is he ashamed of differentiating between crimes and the fact that he voted against these provisions misdemeanours, and it certainly does—the the first time? I do not know. former being generally arrestable without Mr BARTON: I rise to a point of order. The warrant. I am not sure what the term "nature member for Indooroopilly wants to waste his and seriousness of the offence" means. This is time with these frivolous points. I have made it a point that was raised by the Scrutiny of clear that when the Police Powers and Legislation Committee. We are dealing here Responsibilities Bill 1997 was in front of this with issues within the Criminal Code and within Parliament and I was the shadow Minister the the criminal legislation. Quite clearly, the Labor Party voted in support. I think it is about Minister is not fully aware of what he is doing. time this character got back to the facts and The changes being made are indeed very stopped misleading this Parliament. I ask him serious. They are significant, and they are to withdraw those allegations. going to have a significant effect on people's civil liberties. Mr BEANLAND: I am happy to withdraw whatever upset the Minister. Mr Deputy I congratulate those who prepared the Speaker, I ask that the Minister refer to other Alert Digest on picking up these things. It is a members by their correct title. I do not think pity the Minister did not make some reference that does anything for the Minister at all. I to this matter in his second-reading speech. I would ask that to be withdrawn. thought something would be said about why Mr BARTON: What did I say? these words were changed in the first instance. That cannot be found anywhere in the Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Kaiser): The legislation. As I said, the term "nature and member has asked for comments to be seriousness of the offence" is unclear and very withdrawn. imprecise terminology. Mr BARTON: I will withdraw. Although there has been some change, I Mr BEANLAND: The Minister does not am pleased to see that the notice to appear appear to listen. I acknowledge that the Labor provisions have remained in the legislation. Party supported the provisions in relation to These provisions were first introduced into the the current police powers and responsibilities juvenile justice laws by the former legislation and that it had changed its position. Borbidge/Sheldon Government. I recollect that That is the point I was making, but the Minister the Labor Party voted against those notice to does not seem to want to accept it. So be it. I appear provisions, but they have been will not waste any more time on that issue. retained within this legislation. I think they are I think the move-on powers are particularly working very satisfactorily, as I believed they important. It is good to see that they are also would. They save the police from having to retained in this legislation. I accept that these carry out a whole range of arrest procedures powers were supported previously by the that were required previously and from taking Minister when he was in Opposition. I have no people to watch-houses. These notice to problem in giving credit where credit is due, but appear provisions obviate the necessity to I want the facts to be acknowledged. detain people at watch-houses. Even though the Labor Party opposed it at that time, I am Move-on powers are very important when pleased to see the backflip on this issue. it comes to antisocial behaviour, which is one of the big problems in the community. We are Mr BARTON: Mr Speaker, I rise to a point not talking about people who are committing of order. The Labor Party did not oppose that; criminal offences, because if they are then the the Labor Party supported it. In fact, the start police can take certain action. We are dealing of that was when Terry Mackenroth was with antisocial behaviour, which occurs in a Minister for Police. I would ask the member to range of instances from time to time. 430 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

Many businesspeople and councils in a is a document to which change will occur from range of towns and cities around the State are time to time. particularly concerned about antisocial I have mentioned section 163, which behaviour. They feel that the police need the relates particularly to juveniles. I made some ability to control situations before they get out reference to that in relation to the Juvenile of hand and criminal offences are committed. I Justice Act and the various changes to tests. think these powers are good, because a range of situations can arise in which people cause There is also the matter of police numbers mischief—in shopping centres, in recreational and underfunding of police. It is all very well to areas or perhaps around automatic teller have the legislation, but funding issues are of machines, just to mention a few. concern to the community. Although the Minister can inform the House about how well The community, and local government the last Budget went, the facts are that many particularly, becomes alarmed about the ability people believe police were short-changed in of people to cause mischief, and the police the last Budget. There was insufficient funding. quite often say that there is very little they can That is one of the reasons the police are do in those situations. We always have to be unable to get on with the number of tasks that careful, though, that youths are not simply currently need to be carried out. harassed for no reason at all. I do not believe The 6% stealth tax introduced in relation that the police do this. to capital gains made a significant difference The process appears to be working, to the operations of the police budget. There although I have heard complaints about are a range of capital assets that will be delays. From comments in one of the affected by this tax. A special 6% tax put on Minister's statements, I understand that those the police budget, as was put on capital items matters are now being overcome and that the last time, is certainly going to affect the overall process has been sped up. Local government operation of the Police Service. It must have want these matters processed very quickly some effect on the ability of police to get out because of circumstances that arise in their and deliver those services. particular localities. I would like some comment One of my constituents was involved in or assurance from the Minister that this will that nasty bashing which occurred on the occur. bikeway beside the Brisbane River. I do not This power is not, nor is it designed to be, want to take up any time in considering this a blanket power, but there are circumstances matter, but we have had assurances from the and situations which arise quickly where local Police Minister and the Police Commissioner government does not want to approach the that senior police will be stationed at police Minister to have these move-on powers headquarters on a 24-hour basis. I accept extended in those areas. I think that is a that. Unfortunately, sometimes things change. particularly important point and something I am not saying that the Police Commissioner about which we need some assurance from would change things, but sometimes someone the Minister. is absent from duty and perhaps someone else takes a shortcut. I am not saying that that I raise the issue of prosecutions of people is what happened on this occasion. I am referred to the police department from the seeking an assurance that such a situation will Forde inquiry. I presume that is still not occur in the future. It is important that proceeding. I ask the Minister how things are police headquarters is adequately manned. going in relation to that. Some months ago there was a series of referrals and I think many One of the major areas of concern is people in the community are waiting to see the juvenile crime. So often I hear members of the outcome of those referrals from the Forde public say that the police cannot take action inquiry. against juveniles. That is quite wrong. The Queensland Police Service has more than There were some amendments to police adequate powers to take action against powers in 1998. They particularly related to the juveniles under the Police Powers and power to arrest juveniles and the way in which Responsibilities Act, the juvenile justice registers are kept in respect of covert legislation and the Criminal Code. operations. Of course, those amendments Unfortunately, some junior police officers were part of an ongoing process of finetuning believe that there is some difficulty in relation and review. I am sure that, even though we to taking action against juveniles. That is not have this legislation before the Parliament the case. Parliament has given the today, further amendments will be required Queensland Police Service adequate and down the track. This is a living document. This extensive powers to deal with juveniles when 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 431 they are committing criminal offences. The Mr Cooper listened to the concerns of the Parliament has also given the Queensland grassroots membership of the Queensland Police Service power to take action when Police Service. He realised that radical reform instances of anti-social behaviour are was needed, particularly in relation to issues of occurring. That action is being reinforced today promotions and transfers. He also listened to in the Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill. the concerns of the Queensland Police Union. On occasions members of the public say I remember the member for Crows Nest, the police do not have sufficient powers to as Minister, touring the State with an take action against juveniles. That is not entourage which included the present Police correct. I have frequently raised this matter Minister, the Honourable Tom Barton, and with senior members of the Queensland Police other luminaries noted in their various fields. I Service. I would like the Minister to ensure that refer in particular to Terry O'Gorman from the that message is reinforced by his office. We all Council for Civil Liberties, Bob Bottom in his know that juveniles create problems in the better days, and some very fine police officers community. Whilst the vast majority of from the legal section of the Queensland juveniles are law-abiding citizens, a couple of Police Service, including Doug Smith, Greg juveniles can embark upon a two-person crime Thomas, Peter Doyle and Frank O'Gorman. wave. It does not wash for someone to say These men were all very well-respected and that the police do not have adequate powers. It is difficult to envisage what further powers learned police officers who spent long hours Parliament could confer upon the Queensland each day not just making this legislation good Police Service in this area. Perhaps some legislation, but making it workable for the advances could be made with the move-on officers in the field. All their work paid off with powers. I look forward to hearing the Minister's the enacting of the Police Powers and comments in relation to that matter. Responsibilities Act 1997. But their work was not finished; there was a lot more finetuning to I hope we will see increased funding in do. What we see in this Parliament today is a the police budget to ensure that we have an portion of that finetuning. ongoing increase in police numbers. Mr FELDMAN (Caboolture—CCAQ) Some finetuning was done in April 1999 (12.13 p.m.): It is a pleasure to rise in this when some amendments were moved to Chamber to speak on matters concerning enhance the administrative responsibilities of policing in Queensland, and in particular to the police relating to the recording of speak on the Police Powers and information in registers. These 1999 Responsibilities Bill. Policing always was, and amendments clarified the delegation of powers always will be, a very serious issue in the wider and responsibilities relating to the registers and general community. who was responsible for the maintenance of them. The amendments also clarified Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen used to trot out responsibilities with respect to the provision of this issue at every election because he access to registers and where certain people realised that it was a big issue. We are told were entitled to be advised of certain that he raised this matter not simply because information contained in them. What we see of political advantage but because he was here now is a culmination of that work which aware of the serious nature of crime and how was started in 1996. We now have the Police the lack of attention by politicians and political Powers and Responsibilities Bill 2000. parties to crime and criminals was viewed in the wider community. This matter was I, more than many other honourable recognised this morning in Michael Duffy's members of this Assembly, fully recognise that article in the Courier-Mail. policing is an evolutionary process. Policing is In 1996, as a serving police officer, I recall not only affected by changes in attitude and this type of radical reforming legislation being changes in community views and introduced under the very wise counsel of expectations, but it is affected by legal Parliament and the then Police Minister, the decisions of courts of competent jurisdiction, Honourable Russell Cooper MLA, the member as well as political changes, technical changes for Crows Nest. Mr Cooper is still viewed as and environmental changes. More than ever probably one of the better Police Ministers we before, police must be a step ahead of the have had in this State. I am not saying that criminal element and criminal activity in order the current Minister is not viewed in a similar to prevent crime and create the type of society manner. I have made similar comments that Queensland and, indeed, Australia wish to previously in relation to the Honourable Russell portray to the world during this year's coming Cooper. Olympic experience. 432 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

I agree absolutely with the Minister when Government to instigate a witch-hunt on the he said in his second-reading speech that, with vast majority of honest and hardworking police the greater powers extended to police to stay officers of this State. I believe that is still the ahead of the criminal of today, there has to be job of the CJC. All police I know perform their greater accountability. I also agree that, with duty within the parameters of the law. the acceptance of that greater responsibility by It is also reassuring to note in clause 6(2) police, the legislation in its intent to deliver that there is recognition of the basic principle must not cripple the capacity of the police in that everyone in the community has a social the field—at the coalface of urban renewal—to responsibility to help police officers prevent do the job which the community expects of crime and discover offenders. I hope that the them. I know that the current Minister is very recognition of this basic principle is mentioned sensitive to this issue and does not want to to many people in society who do not wish to see police bound by bureaucratic red tape and get involved or who "didn't see nothing", which procedure when they could be out on the was often said to me when I was a police street doing the job that the community officer and turned up at the scene of a crime expects of them. or a tragedy. I think that many people in our The Minister could not have been more society are tragically unaware of that principle. clear on that point than when he was at the Part of the workability of the legislation lies Caboolture Police Station some four or five in what has been achieved already. I must say months ago. The Minister was talking to a that, from time to time, the move-on powers delegation of very concerned businessmen extended to police have been used sparingly and women who attended at the station in and with the maximum effect in very adverse order to express their concerns over the lack of circumstances. I realise that there was a real police numbers and an increase in juvenile fear that, with these extended powers, crime activity in the Caboolture CBD. This is a suddenly police would be out there hassling, Police Minister who will not accept second best harassing and intimidating law-abiding citizens, as a policing attitude, and I thank him for the especially the youth who like to just hang additional police numbers and the promise of around together in various groups. I think that a secure increase in police numbers at the fear was quite evident. However, I do not think Caboolture and Bribie Island Police Stations. that that has been the reality. I know that the I also agree with the Minister when he authorised use of the move-on powers in the said in his second-reading speech that a additional places provided, such as premises precedent has to be set with this legislation for licensed under the Liquor Act 1992, in malls, the rest of Australia and that the objectives set racing venues, South Bank and places where by this Bill appear to have been achieved. I unlawful soliciting for prostitution occurs, will be believe Doug Smith in the Northern Territory is gratefully appreciated by the public at large, following suit and has taken some of his especially in those areas. On that note, I am Queensland experience with him. sure that Mr Tornatore in Brunswick Street in From an operational policing point of view, the Premier's electorate will appreciate the the setting out of this Bill makes it easy to read power being extended to streetwalking down and easy to follow. I am not saying that the Bill there. It may stop some of those letters that I is not complex, but it is easy to refer to the know float through to the Minister as well as to provisions of each chapter in order to ensure me and several other people concerned about compliance. The Minister recognises that this this issue. legislation is not the be-all and end-all of all The Minister was quite aware that, when policing needs and that it is not a one-stop he met with the Caboolture CBD traders at that shop to cure all the problems that police may meeting at Caboolture about which I spoke face in their daily duty. before, the nuisance value to shopkeepers of It is indeed reassuring to police that this older youth playing on rollerblades and Bill allows the police to continue to do the skateboards in and around shop doors and things that they can do lawfully other than arcades was a bone of contention. The provided for in this Bill. I see that as early as Minister should be aware that those people clause 5 in chapter 1 compliance with the Act are now fully briefed on the provisions of by police is spelt out very clearly and the clause 40. I am sure that the council in that scenarios of the type of disciplinary action that area will be receiving a lot of calls in respect of may be taken is shown in the four examples that. that are listed. However, in the Minister's However, as an avid sports fan, I was second-reading speech, he stresses that it is extremely interested in the special event not his intention or the intention of the powers contained in the Bill. I am fully aware of 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 433 the number of major sporting events that are poms in the 1970s, but at that time, as much coming to Queensland over the coming 12 as we love the poms, people never threw months. I am especially sensitive to the rubbish at the players on the field. However, I requirements of the Olympic Games. Not only can recall a few years later as a police officer will a great number of overseas teams be not taking away in the back of the divvy van some training in Queensland but this State will also overenthusiastic revellers on the old hill after be hosting a substantial number of Olympic they inundated a lone pommy spectator with soccer matches at the Gabba Cricket Ground. the Union Jack in his hand. We all recognise the passion and the However, I cannot see such bad national pride that is expressed in our sport. behaviour going on out there at the Allan That is shown by all nationalities. It is a sad Border Field as Queensland dissects Victoria in fact that, today, we all remember seeing on TV the Pura Milk Cup commencing on Friday. We the incidents of soccer hooliganism in Britain love our cricket and we love the Bulls. We may and Europe. I know that we do not expect that have been one of the last teams to grab the sort of behaviour in Australia. After all, it costs Sheffield Shield, but my money is on a fair amount of money for a person to come Queensland to be there to grab the first Pura to Australia to watch a match—a little bit more Milk Cup—all $10,000 of it. I cannot see Stuart than it does to cross the channel. Certainly, if I Law and the boys making Queensland wait were an overseas sports fan, I would not want some 63 years for this to be our prize. All I say to pay a lot of money to travel to Australia only is: go the Bulls. Let us have a great start to the to be kicked out of a stadium or banned from new millennium by holding that Pura Milk Cup attending all matches, or possibly charged with up high. offences. However, our police and stadium In speaking of major events, Queensland officials must be prepared for the worst. It is has a responsibility to enhance its reputation sad and unfortunate that this is how it has to as a safe environment for international be. spectators and visitors to our major and special At this stage, as I am an avid cricket fan, I events. I understand that there will be a must point out that the Sunshine Coast and condition of entry to the special events sites Redcliffe League Zone Under 16 Boys, whom I that a person must not take into or possess in coached in the Queensland State Junior that site a prohibited item and that, on Cricket Carnival at the Brisbane Grammar entering, if a person is asked, they must permit School complex at Boondall, were not back-to- a search of their personal property or permit a back winners this year. However, they frisk search. I notice in Schedule 4 that the acquitted themselves well and ran third. I definition of "prohibited item" in relation to mention this not just for the fact that three of special events means— these boys were selected for the Queensland "... a thing stated to be a prohibited item State side and that central Queensland took in the declaration of the event as a out the championships in 1999-2000 but that, special event." just like me, these boys, whose passion lies in I hope that we do not reach the ridiculous cricket— stage at which plastic soft drink bottles or water Mr Lucas: Is it the coach or the players? bottles, cameras or video cameras are classed Mr FELDMAN: No, they were definitely as prohibited items because of sponsorship robbed by just a few minor runs in a couple of rights, or that the texta pens that are used by vital matches. It was just through a little turn of the children who are out there autograph events. I am glad to see that the member for hunting are classed as prohibited items just for Lytton is very interested in junior cricket. That is the fear that there could be graffiti problems. I very, very good indeed. As I said, like me, can see the very reasons for families going to these boys, whose passion lies in cricket, were see, to photograph or to autograph hunt at just a little bit disappointed by the crowd's special events—and do it reasonably behaviour at the one-day cricket final series inexpensively by taking their own drinks and this year. In Melbourne, the match was food—stopping that practice. That would be stopped for some time because a number of more of a shame than what we have seen to plastic drink bottles and rubbish were thrown date. onto the field at players, officials and ground In this day and age, the searching of staff. Considering the esteem in which property and persons going into special events Australian crowds have been held in the past, and the scanning for inappropriate material is it was quite appalling behaviour. I can even essential. Even now, when I have gone to the remember clapping and chanting "Kill, kill, kill" Gabba I have had my sandwich bag as Thommo and Lillee ran in to bowl at the inspected. I do not mind that at all. However, it 434 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 would be a real shame to force out financially perform searches not only for their own the families—the mums and the dads and the protection but also for the protection of the children who make our sports stars the heroes people they take into custody. I note the and the role models and the characters that Minister nodding in agreement. This is one they are. area of the Bill for which the police have a lot Mr Palaszczuk: Did you have of respect, because searching is a vital aspect Queensland food in your sandwich bag? of maintaining the safety of people in custody and the safety of police. Mr FELDMAN: Always—always Australian owned, and from my local butcher as well. I When searching has been overlooked, it am very conscious of buying Australian-owned has turned to tragedy. Police now adopt—and products. I thank the Minister for raising that rightly so—a "better safe than sorry" attitude in matter. He will hear more from me about that relation to searching. The emphasis is on the matter later on, perhaps in another speech. safety and the welfare of the person in custody at all times. We have made policing this way, Bearing in mind that this Bill comprises so we cannot criticise the end result or there some 371 pages, I intend to ask the Minister may be further injuries and more deaths in some things about it in the Committee stage. police custody. That is something that we do For example, I wish to ask the Minister where not want. in the Bill there is protection for the police in the use of the stinger that is used to stop I have spoken with Queensland Police vehicles in relation to roadblocks and the Union representatives Mr Merv Bainbridge and power to stop vehicles. I know that the device Mr Gary Wilkinson. Both gentlemen are quite has been trialled and was used very au fait with the legislation. They believe it is successfully just a matter of a week or so ago. very good legislation. However, it would be remiss of me not to mention funding for police. It did not result in any tragedy or long-term I know the Minister is very conscious of this police chase. As a former police officer, I want issue. As a former police officer, I cannot deny to ensure that the boys out there who are the sorts of things that are taking place out using it are adequately protected with respect there. I know that in some cases there are to its use— directions in relation to the restriction of Ms Struthers: And women. overtime. Officers cannot make arrests more Mr FELDMAN: And women— than halfway through their shift. There are policewomen as well. That is correct. I should restrictions on the availability of specialist not be discriminating; it is "police officers". sections after hours, such as the Dog Squad, crime scene, the Traffic Accident Investigation I know that strip searches and searches of Squad and forensic officers. persons generally have been the topic of conversation during this debate. What is not If the Government is desirous of police understood is the onus of responsibility placed following this Bill to the letter, I suggest there on police when an offender is arrested or be no such tight restrictions on the use of placed in police custody or in a watch-house. If specialist services now that in most cases they the search is not carried out adequately, a are so essential to successful prosecution. If person can injure himself or herself with a we do not want the police to take short cuts, secreted weapon or drugs or syringes. It is they must be provided with adequate specialist amazing what a person can hide. It is amazing services and an overtime budget to complete how large an item can be hidden in the any task efficiently and competently. crevices of their person, both male and This is a very good Bill. It has been a long female. A strip search and a squat can reveal time in the making. We will be supporting it, a lot more hidden material than just an although we have a few questions about embarrassed look. It is to provide protection certain clauses. I have not seen the that searches are conducted in the manner in amendments of the shadow Minister, but I which they are. look forward to seeing them. We will be Deaths in custody, injured police officers, supporting this Bill. the prevalence of drugs and the expectations Mr LUCAS (Lytton—ALP) (12.48 p.m.): At of society have made police even more the outset, I indicate my strong support for this watchful and hardened masters when taking legislation. Police powers and responsibilities persons into custody. When a person is taken are something in which I have taken an into custody, there is no such thing as a minor interest over a significant period. I congratulate matter. Many minor matters where searches the Minister on his strong commitment to have been overlooked have turned to tragedy. effective and appropriate policing in this State. I do not need to highlight them. Police need to On many occasions I have had cause to 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 435 discuss issues of an individual nature and a Unfortunately, it must be a flaw in the way policy nature with the Minister. I have always humans are created that a minority of people found him to be very aware of the issues and sometimes offend. Therefore, it is necessary to of the importance of equipping our Police provide society with the protection of a Police Service with the most modern and best Service against those who seek to offend and possible powers to ensure that the citizens of deprive others of their liberties as citizens. our State are protected. I strongly support the police in carrying out This consolidation Bill is very important in their difficult job. Being married to a police a number of public or individual interests. It is officer—albeit a Federal Police officer, so my important in the interests of police, because wife is not affected by this legislation—I think I they need clear, understandable, adequate have an understanding of the importance of and modern information about the powers policing and the issues confronting police they possess. Police officers possess very officers—and, for the benefit of the member of significant powers in our society, as is the Caboolture, policewomen. It is very important nature of their job, and it is very important that that we bring in legislation which supports our they know how those powers may be police. exercised. This Bill is not the only part of it. People often talk about public interest, There is subordinate legislation and other rules but there is a strong public interest in ensuring that will stand with it. Police need to that people who commit criminal offences, who understand fully the nature of the powers they offend against society, are investigated and exercise, because it is in their interests and for brought before courts in an appropriate and their protection that they do so. expeditious manner. This Bill gives police It is in the public interest that the public modern powers to investigate criminal have an understanding of what powers the offences. It is no good equipping police with police might lawfully exercise against them and 18th century powers which people such as the what powers the police might lawfully exercise Bow Street Runners had. They need the sorts against others in their interests. If you are a of powers that allow them to investigate and shopkeeper, for example, it is important to detect crime. It is no good saying to a victim of know that in certain circumstances the Police crime, "I'm sorry; had we had the ability to Powers and Responsibilities Act will allow search the scene of the crime properly in the police to exercise a move-on power outside first instance, we probably could have proved your shop. It is very important for a citizen to the case against this particular perpetrator. But know that they have the right to call on the we can't because we don't have that power." It police to exercise that power in their favour. is not in the interests of justice for someone to Some people might think it is pretty easy get off the hook because of inadequacies in to know what police powers there are, but the the law. That is why this legislation is very fact that such an extraordinary amount of important. legislation had to be consolidated into this Bill A classic example is the power to take puts that in its correct light. As a legal names and addresses. It is important to give practitioner, I can say that it was always difficult the police the power to take one's name and when a client was charged with a criminal address. For example, when someone offence to understand exactly what particular witnesses a crime, is it in the public interest provisions existed in what particular case. We that that person should have the right to say, always used the duty lawyer manual, which "Look, I'm not going to tell you who I am"? was an excellent publication which had a very Although that person has witnessed a crime, good summary of the provisions. Now we will he or she does not have to provide the police have a summary in the one Bill. That will be with any information. If a member of my family much better for police, much better for those or someone in my electorate were injured by charged with criminal offences and, most virtue of the antisocial acts of another person, importantly, much better for the general that person should be able to have some community. confidence that witnesses have to make their This legislation sets out in clear terms the names available to the police for the purpose law with respect to the use of the vast majority of an investigation. Importantly, it is in our of police powers. Police have a difficult job to interests to equip police with the powers to do in our society. Unfortunately, human nature prosecute criminal offences properly. is such that a small group of society think it is Another aspect of police powers that I allowable to break the law and have no wish to discuss is the use of police powers in concern or care for the rights of other people. industrial disputes. Some members of the It would be great if society were not like that. Metal Workers Union were in the gallery earlier. 436 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

I had hoped to address this issue while they "You have committed an offence. Here is your were present. Government members strongly punishment." support the right to industrial action by workers In addition, for example, if an individual and their right to legitimate protest. It is has assaulted someone at the Wynnum train important that we recognise that it is not just station, the legislation should give the victim the law that deals with how police handle the right to use the train as normal and expect industrial disputes. that the thug will not be there again to I wish to contrast in particular the way in intimidate and harass her or him. This issue which the Queensland Police Service handled affects women in particular. Why should the waterside workers dispute of about a year victims of crime have their liberty deprived ago with what happened in other States. I give because of the actions of others? I make it the police in this State full credit for their crystal clear that I am very strongly opposed to sensible behaviour. They have a difficult job to people who think that they can carry on in an do. They were not responsible for the antisocial manner at train stations and other outrageous behaviour of Patrick Stevedoring, public transport facilities. It is always Labor which thumbed its nose at the Federal Court people who catch trains. They are not like the and broke the law. The waterside workers and wealthy silvertails who can afford to catch a their supporters were taking legitimate taxi. They are the people affected by crimes at industrial action. The Queensland Police those sorts of places. That is why I say, as a Service dealt with that protest in a sensible, Labor member of Parliament, that we take a compassionate and logical way. Consequently, strong stance on antisocial behaviour at those there was no violence on the picket lines. Their sorts of facilities. response was appropriate. I give credit to the I wish to discuss a few other initiatives in Police Service and in particular the police relation to the Bill. Importantly, the police will officers in charge at the port of Brisbane at have the power to secure crime scenes quickly that time, including Inspector Charlie Grimpel and properly. With the advances in science, and Senior Sergeant Mike McKay. The police these days science can solve many crimes officers handled the issue very sensibly and without the necessity of further investigation. If they brought great credit to themselves and the police have the power to establish the the Police Service. boundaries of a crime scene, they can get in I turn to the rights of victims, in respect of quickly and do the DNA testing that they are which there was an announcement by the now allowed to do. Getting to a crime scene Government recently. Having been a legal quickly can often mean the difference between practitioner, I have acted for both people solving a crime relatively cheaply and solving it charged with criminal offences and people who at great expense or not at all. I congratulate have been the victims of criminal offences. I the Police Minister for taking what I think is had a reasonably large practice in the area of probably the most important initiative in law victims' compensation. One of the problems enforcement in Queensland for the past 30 or with criminal law is that it does not always 40 years. I refer to the DNA legislation that will focus on the rights of victims. be introduced in the second tranche of legislation under this Act. Although there is the move-on power, which focuses fundamentally on the rights of I know the Minister understands fully the people who are harassed by individuals who importance of DNA profiling as an investigative do not want to comply with the law, victims tool. I am pleased to say that the Queensland legislation focuses on the victims. I Government has announced that we will be congratulate the Government on its giving the police the power to administer the announcement—and no doubt we will see the DNA swab. Although Hansard cannot record legislation later this year—in relation to this visual demonstration, I point out that a providing the courts with the power when swab is not unlike a small toothbrush. By sentencing individuals to say, "You are the rubbing it on the inside of my mouth, I can perpetrator of this offence. You are not to go obtain a DNA sample, similar to the one now near the victim or a particular place for a on the end of the pen I am holding. That is the certain time." That is critical. If we speak to extent of the procedure for obtaining a DNA victims of crime, we learn that often they feel sample. It is hardly invasive of civil liberties. It is not like the victim but almost like the accused; necessary for the detection of crime. that they have done something wrong that has The minority of people who oppose DNA deprived them of their liberty. We cannot profiling on civil liberties grounds seem to accept that as a state of affairs. Legislation is forget that, for example, if the police have needed that gives the courts the power to say, possible suspects for an offence, in the 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 437 exercise of their duties they will quite properly LIQUOR (TRADING LIMITATIONS ON ANZAC question all of those people about the offence. DAY) AMENDMENT BILL They might execute search warrants. That is Mr SPEAKER: Order! Honourable fine in respect of the person who committed members, I draw the attention of the House to the offence, but what about the other nine the Liquor (Trading Limitations on Anzac Day) who did not? How do they feel when the police Amendment Bill 2000 introduced in the House turn up at their place of work and say, "We this morning. This Bill has the same purpose want to talk to you about Mr Smith in relation as the Liquor Amendment Bill 1999, which was to a possible theft"? Naturally, everyone will defeated on the second reading during this assume that that person has committed the session of Parliament. Page 499 of Erskine offence, even though he might be one of the May has this to say on matters already nine innocent people. decided during the same session— The thing about DNA profiling is that one "There is no general rule or custom is either in or out. This means that the police which restrains the presentation of two or can say, "Right. We have a match for this more bills relating to the same subject, person." I have spoken in this House before and containing similar provisions. But if a about the numerous cases where DNA testing decision of the House has already been has led to acquittals. There have been a taken on one such bill, for example, if the number of cases in the United States where bill has been given or refused a second people have been placed on death row as a reading, the other is not proceeded with if result of faulty evidence and it has only been it contains substantially the same by virtue of DNA evidence being put forward at provisions; nor could such a bill be a later time that it has been proven that they introduced on a motion for leave ..." could not have committed the offence, and Our own Standing Order 76 has this to say on they have been exonerated. Luckily for them, the matter in question— DNA— "A Question or Amendment shall not be proposed which is the same in Mr Horan: The unknown soldier in substance as any Question which, during Vietnam; it was DNA that enabled them to find the same Session, has been resolved in out who he belonged to. the Affirmative or Negative." Mr LUCAS: That is another aspect to DNA I therefore rule the Liquor (Trading Limitations testing, apart from law and order. It is a on Anzac Day) Amendment Bill 2000 out of tremendously powerful tool. For example, in order. relation to law enforcement, a member of a Sitting suspended from 1 p.m. to family might have been missing for 20 years. If 2.30 p.m. a body is found, DNA testing can be done and it can be established, based on the DNA profile of the parents, whether the body is that POLICE POWERS AND RESPONSIBILITIES of the parents' son or daughter. In that way, BILL they can at least put their mind to rest. DNA Second Reading testing has broad application. Resumed. There are a number of other important Mr NELSON (Tablelands—IND) initiatives in the Bill. In relation to post-arrest (2.30 p.m.): I rise in support of the Bill before questioning, the Bill contains many of the the House. I must say that it is good to see safeguards that exist currently under the these weighty issues being codified in a regulations to the Act, including provisions simple—I will not say easy to read—document directing what is a reasonable time to detain a that is going to be a valuable reference tool for person for question or investigation. The scope the Police Service in general. It has been expressed to me on numerous of the part of the Bill allowing detention for occasions—and by now everyone in this questioning has been refined so that time House would know of my affiliation with the limits— Police Service in a family capacity—that the Mr SPEAKER: Order! Would the guidelines and parameters that need to be set honourable member like to use his remaining to enable police officers to carry out their day- six minutes after the luncheon adjournment? to-day duties has been an ongoing issue within this arena and within other public forums Debate, on motion of Mr Lucas, and has been a longstanding subject of adjourned. debate. I suppose that leads into the 438 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 statement that many points could be argued believe requires leeway on occasion. As other for and against during the debate. I intend to members of this House have said, policing the canvass a couple of them. streets of Queensland is a very tough job and One point that was raised with me which I policing in general is a very tough job. found interesting is that, whenever we codify Another very important issue—and it is something or put something into a definitive something that may not be so important in the process whereby we say, "These are the Queensland Police Service now but could guidelines and these are things that are become important—is related to the whole outside the guidelines", we are probably giving argument that I am putting forward, that is, ourselves very little leeway to work outside that policing is something that I believe is not those laws. However, I do not want to say that taught but is learnt. The longer a person police officers should be allowed to work spends in the force or the more time they outside the law. spend doing their job as a police officer—and it One very important issue that is raised would be the same with most trades—the with me frequently is that of police dealing with better they become at it. juvenile offenders. I do not want to advocate a Unfortunately, there is no discrepancy return to the old days, or anything like that. I between the powers vested in a first year might add that my comments are not just in constable and the powers vested in an officer relation to juveniles, either. I am reminded of a with 20 years' service. Police officers on the situation that arose in Townsville recently, street have the same powers across-the- which I cannot go into. But when we set an board, although they might not have the agenda and say, "This is the way things are experience to deal with every situation. That is going to have to be dealt with", that gives the a very difficult area to get into and discuss, police very little leeway to act. If there is a set because there is no breaking up of police of rules and guidelines for them to follow, then powers within an area of expertise or they must follow them to the letter. experience. For example, a first year traffic Sometimes situations arise in which police police officer has the same powers of arrest as should be able to exercise their judgment on a detective senior sergeant. From that point of an issue and say, "Maybe it is better in this view, perhaps in the future thought could be case not to let the full weight of the law fall given to widening the parameters and giving upon this individual." It might be felt that it is the police more leeway in situations where more appropriate for a particular individual to they feel that is necessary. I suppose that view get a stern talking to from a police officer than is a reflection of my upbringing. I was brought to be charged with an offence. This happens a up to have trust in the Police Service. lot in rural communities, and I know that it The issue of police officers on the beat used to happen a lot in what people would being entrusted to go out and do their job consider the bad old days when police officers without fear or favour is something that has would take young people aside and caution been brought home to me. As some members them. Sometimes a father of a young person of this House may agree, there is no monetary who had been caught doing something wrong gain to be found as a general police officer would say to the police officer, "Can you take within the Police Service. It is not a high-paying this young fellow aside and give him a good job. It is not a job from which a person can talking to?" Nowadays the police may be amass a tremendous amount of money quite approached by a person who asks, "Can you easily or quite quickly. It is not a lucrative job. just tell my son to stop misbehaving", and the As I said, I have been in a police family for 18 police officer has to say, "No, sorry. I have to years, and my mum and dad still do not even charge him; I have to put him before a court." own a house. It has been my experience that The police officer knows that this person is not the majority of police officers are honest, a bad person; they have just got caught up decent, law-abiding citizens who are out there with the wrong crowd and have got into trouble trying to uphold the law in sometimes very with the police. That person then goes into the difficult situations. In many suburbs of justice system, and the outcomes might not be Brisbane it must be incredibly difficult to uphold beneficial to society in the long run. the law. I believe that in some instances more The point I am trying to make is that, with trust should be shown in police by those in the codification of police powers and authority, and by that I mean the Parliament of responsibilities—and, again, I must stress that Queensland. I support the concept behind it—we are The pre-Fitzgerald days are over. We tightening up this area and we are giving very have moved on from that, yet we still see little leeway to an organisation that I personally police being persecuted at a pre-Fitzgerald 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 439 level. I am talking about the current inquiries the situation may be different. Say those girls being carried out by the CJC, which I find are in a red light district of Brisbane, a car pulls absolutely ludicrous. What member of this up and the person in the car solicits them for House would not, if they had the opportunity, services. Those girls might see that as an check up on people with whom they were opportune time to take cash for services. The associating? We are putting police officers in police can see that those girls are in a situation the situation in which they are not allowed to of danger or in a situation where they could associate with criminals or people of bad become targets. The police can then use the character. If they do associate with such abilities given to them to move those girls from people, they are going to end up before the that position so they are no longer the targets CJC, but if they check up on the people with for opportunistic crime or participate in whom they are associating, they are going to opportunistic crime. That is a good thing. I see end up before the CJC as well. It is a bit of a this issue from a safety point of view. The catch-22 situation for a young police officer move-on powers have been raised with me these days. time and time again relating to public safety in We can go a bit too far with anything, but general. I see it as a good power in that it is my personal belief that the current inquiries respect. being carried out by the CJC into police using The move-on power can also be used in the police computer to check up on the people times of civil disobedience. Say a tyrannical with whom they associate has gone too far. It Government will not listen to the people and has become a bit of a witch-hunt and it is a bit will not let the people have their point of view unfair. The simple fact is that anybody who is and that leads to protests in front of not allowed to associate with malcontents and Parliament House and protests at Community nondescripts would do the same thing. If I was Cabinet meetings. Say this tyrannical a police officer and I was associating with a Government does not like having protests at particular person and I wanted to know if they its Community Cabinet meetings and decides were running drugs and I did a police check to flex its political muscle and uses the police and found out that they were and I did not and the new Police Powers and associate with them anymore, I would be Responsibilities Act to move on the classed as a hero. If I did a police check and malcontents who do not agree with the found out that they were not a drug dealer and socialist agenda set by that tyrannical that they were actually a law-abiding, decent Government and they are then dragged off citizen, I would then be up before the CJC the streets using the move-on power. That is explaining why I was using the police computer an issue that must be looked at. to check up on that person. That is something Perhaps the Minister might be able to that I think is very unfair, and we are doing inform the House that that situation cannot something about it at the moment. occur under this Act. Perhaps the move-on I now turn to the move-on powers. This power has been included in the legislation issue has been raised with me by different specifically for the reason of sporting events. levels of the community for different reasons. Say, for example, a Community Cabinet As I have said on numerous occasions, I am meeting was held in Mareeba and 2,000 not the member for Shaun Nelson; I am the farmers turned out to try to sack whichever member for Tablelands. I will address this Government was in power. Would those move- issue on two levels: firstly, the general on laws be used to interfere with their right to shopkeeper who comes to me and says that protest and their right to be heard in a public they would like to have the ability to remove place, especially if that public protest was in people from the front of their shop; and, the main street of town? That is an issue that secondly, the view of those people who say needs to be addressed and made quite clear. that that property is a public space which There is another point of view that these should be allowed to be used at any stage by move-on powers will be targeted specifically the public for any reason. I can see both sides against young people or specifically against of the argument. I realise that this issue is people in a certain area. I do not believe they bigger than some of us believe it to be. will be, but some members of my community Let me give an example to illustrate my fear that they could be. As a young person point. Say three 15 year old girls are myself—I am a youth for another 10 days or wandering down Brunswick Street in the whatever it is; yes, my birthday is on 22 March middle of the night. The move-on power can and all donations can be sent to 210 Burn be used in that situation because those girls Street, Mareeba—I look at it from the point of might be the targets of opportunistic crime, or view that— 440 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

Mr Schwarten: Are you that hard up for a legislation be right. In 1997 the previous present? Government in this place made a very good Mr NELSON: Definitely! I do not have any start, but it did not go on with the job. More friends any more! needed to be done. It is good to see that that task is all but complete now. In relation to young people being specifically targeted with the move-on powers if The Fitzgerald inquiry in this State opened they are congregating in shopping malls, a up a can of worms for the Police Service. It simple answer to that is to set up other areas highlighted that, without clear direction and an where young people can congregate, although understanding by all parties of police powers, we are never going to stop all of them. The whether one is a police officer or a member of attitude could become prevalent in society, the citizenry, there is going to be confusion and it can quite rightly happen, that certain through sometimes a lack of understanding young people are causing a nuisance because and misuse and sometimes downright abuse. they are hanging around the shopping centre Unfortunately, that inquiry brought the good with skateboards. It becomes a community name of the Queensland Police Service into issue as to where those young people should disrepute. But most of that is now behind us. be instead of being out the front of the With this legislation, we can see the way into shopping centre. the future where not only the police but the I have faith that the Police Service would citizens they are sworn to protect will have a not use these powers to persecute any one full understanding of those powers and group in society. I quite rightly believe that they responsibilities. The Minister himself said in his would not, but I hope some thought is given to second-reading speech— the fact that sometimes young people are "When Parliament passes this Bill, quite unfairly targeted and quite unfairly used Queensland will be the only jurisdiction in as scapegoats when crimes are committed. It Australia, if not the Western World, with has been my experience and the experience such a comprehensive police powers and of police I have spoken to that young people responsibilities statute." are used to commit crimes, but they are induced to do so by older people who realise I congratulate him for that. that juveniles will go to a juvenile court; if an I now turn to a couple of issues contained older person committed the offence, they in the Bill. First of all, I refer to the move-on would end up in the adult justice system with powers. This Bill provides for the expansion of its harsher penalties. the move-on powers to such places as the In summary, I support the legislation. I Queen Street Mall, the Valley Mall, the have talked to members of the policing Chinatown Mall and other malls declared community in my area. They are quite happy under the Local Government Act. There would with the Bill as it is. I stress some of the points not be a person in this House who has not at I have made. I hope I have addressed the some stage, whether we live in Brisbane or live issues that have been raised to me by my in the regional centres, been affronted by constituents. As I said, I have faith in the someone cadging money or cigarettes or a Police Service. I hope that those move-on group of people using obscene language or powers will never be used to target individual behaving in an intimidatory manner. Every groups in society or cause any offence to single citizen in this State has a right to go anyone in particular. about their business without having that situation confront them. The expansion of the Mr PITT (Mulgrave—ALP) (2.46 p.m.): I move-on powers is an attempt to am extremely pleased to see the Police accommodate the very rights of those citizens. Powers and Responsibilities Bill 2000 come The legislation also provides for move-on before this Parliament. It has been 10 years in powers at the South Bank Parklands, at racing the making. A lot of consultation and work has venues, at premises licensed under the Liquor gone into the Bill. I remember being involved Act 1992 or at a place where unlawful soliciting in Minister Mackenroth's committee when it for prostitution is occurring. first came to our attention in 1990. At that time we all understood how difficult the task was We have to get the right balance between going to be, because for many years the the rights of the individual and the rights of the powers of police and the responsibilities society as a whole. That is not always an easy attached to them have been spread across a thing. By and large, the success of this number of statutes and have been enshrined legislation will depend on the way in which our in laws across a whole range of ministerial Police Service actually implements it. Like the portfolios. It is very important that the previous speaker from this side of the House, I 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 441 have great faith that the modern Police stage and ensure that a potentially dangerous Service in Queensland is quite up to the task. situation does not escalate. The Bill also contains some safeguards, This morning I read an article in the such as requiring a police officer who gives a Courier-Mail written by a correspondent, Mr direction to provide to persons their name, Paul Spooner. I think the member for rank and station and to tell that person the Tablelands also alluded to this article. Mr reason for giving the move-on direction. It is Spooner wrote that there was a fear that the very important that that information be move-on powers in this legislation could be provided at the time because, should there be used by police to target perhaps indigenous some dispute later on in respect of whether persons and youth. That is clearly not the police officers exceeded their powers or carried intent of the legislation—far from it. When the them out judiciously, it will be of great powers are used in the manner suggested, I assistance to the people making the am sure it will be highlighted very quickly and determination. those who misuse the powers contained in the Where a person contravenes the direction legislation will be quite rightly brought to and a police officer is required to warn them account. about their offending behaviour, there is To answer some of the problems we provision for them to be arrested. At that time sometimes have with those groups—I think it is very much incumbent upon the police even young people and indigenous leaders officer to give that person sufficient time and themselves will accept that there are opportunity to comply with the move-on difficulties—I think we have to look past the direction. move-on powers and look into what creates Where I live in far-north Queensland, the problems in this respect. I refute what some councils have now started to seek to appeared in the Courier-Mail this morning. The have areas declared as notified areas to allow legislation certainly is not targeting those police to exercise move-on powers. I think it is people. If they happen to be part of a mosaic very important that we do this, especially when at the time that requires the exercising of any antisocial and disruptive behaviour is these powers, I have every confidence that our occurring. The Cairns tourist industry is very Police Service will handle it in an appropriate reliant upon the safety of the city. We need to manner. ensure that when people come to this country, The special events provisions are vitally and particularly to places such as Cairns, they important, given that Queensland will be host are not intimidated, subjected to obscene to a whole range of events over the next few language or harassed in any way. years. The Olympic Games will see some 100 Move-on powers already exist under the teams take part in training here in 1997 legislation for areas near ATMs and so Queensland. The Olympic soccer matches will on. If a person is causing anxiety to people in be held in Brisbane. Next year we will have the that area, I think it is fair that police should Goodwill Games and the Commonwealth have the power to move them on. Over the Heads of Government Meeting. These are all years there have been a spate of robberies special events—events that sometimes require and stand-over tactics in respect of ATMs—a police to do more than they would in a normal phenomenon of the latter part of the 20th situation. There are people to protect and we century. These powers have proven to be one have to make sure events are not disrupted. I of the success stories of the 1997 Act. At the believe it is essential that we ensure time those powers were legislated they were Queensland's reputation as a State with a very supported by the then Opposition, now the safe environment is protected for all those Labor Government. international visitors, tourists and people Move-on powers have proved an attending special events here. The provisions excellent preventive tool, allowing police to act incorporated in this Bill will do a lot to enhance to defuse potentially dangerous situations. I that reputation. have always been a great believer in There is a limitation on what can be done prevention rather than cure in whatever area it in respect of special events. A special event may be, whether it be health or law and order cannot be something that is ongoing, which issues. Wise, early intervention by officers of rolls on forever and which someone just our law enforcement agencies quite often decides will be a special event. The Governor prevents situations getting out of hand. The in Council will have the power to make an powers contained in this Bill will allow our police event or type of event a special event, and the officers to judiciously intervene at an early powers under this legislation will be able to be 442 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 used only for the duration of that special This provision has a number of effects. It event. prevents overcrowding in watch-houses, saves Where there are large gatherings of time in processing people through watch- people there is always the potential for things houses and allows police to have more time to get out of hand. I do not think there is on the beat, as they are not escorting people anyone here who does not look with distaste backwards and forwards to watch-houses. It is at some overseas sporting events. I am drawn of particular use where there is a large to mention the soccer hooligans in Britain, who gathering of people and limited numbers of have a very bad name. Generally, we in officers to carry out the requirements of the Australia have been very lucky with our law. In those circumstances, the police can sporting and other major events in that crowds issue notices to appear to minor offenders and have been able to express their emotion and remain on the scene in case a more serious passion for their team or individual players incident occurs. It has commonly been used without resorting to violence or antisocial for minor street offences. I think that is the behaviour. Police, using powers they will derive area in which the notice to appear is most from this legislation, will be able to search the valuable. property and, to a degree, the person of To arrest, detain and charge a person individuals entering into special events. In that takes a long time. It is important that we do way they will reduce the potential for difficulties what we can to keep police officers amongst later on. the public rather than tie them up with The legislation also allows police to assist administration matters. This will be of benefit to public officials in the exercise of their duty. all members of the community. Police officers Some public officials have unique powers and must make a value judgment in these cases. I quite often cannot draw upon another person believe they are able to do that, in view of their with those same powers for assistance, while a training and in view of the way in which the police officer is readily available. The police Police Service operates these days. officers must be able to actually assist that The relationship between the Police person and, to do so, need to assume some Service and the community is a very important of the powers that ascribe to that public official. one. The Police Powers and Responsibilities I give an example from recent years in north Act removed some of the confusion that Queensland. As a result of the outbreak of the existed prior to 1997. The Police Powers and papaya fruit fly, there was a need to Responsibilities Bill 2000 takes the matter quarantine an area. It was impossible for further. The powers conferred by this authorised officers to be everywhere at once. legislation can be easily understood by the When there was a need to stop vehicles, police and by the citizens of Queensland. To search them and perhaps even confiscate that extent, I am pleased to support this Bill. materials, it fell upon police officers, particularly Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM (Gladstone—IND) in some of the outback towns in the cape, to (3 p.m.): I rise to speak on the Police Powers carry out that duty. This legislation allows that. and Responsibilities Bill. I commend the As I said, it is of particular use in regional areas current Police Minister and the previous Police where often in an emergency the only back-up Minister, both of whom have put a tremendous available to a public official is the local police officer. These powers exist now, but they are amount of work into bringing this legislation all in different Acts. The Bill will make it easier before the House. for police to understand the powers and to However, I have some concerns. The exercise them in a proficient manner. Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill was I mention the notice to appear provisions. examined by the Scrutiny of Legislation They were first introduced in the 1997 Act and Committee in 1997. The Bill was the subject of have proven to be a great success. I see the some debate at that time. The committee notice to appear as a sensible and viable published an extensive report on the alternative to temporary detention, which uses legislation. The concerns of the community up valuable police time and resources. It and members of this House have not allows officers to issue a notice to appear for a diminished in the meantime. court appearance at a later date. This means I received a letter from the Youth that police are no longer required to take a Advocacy Centre Inc. I have not spoken to person to a watch-house to be charged, only anyone from this group, but I would like to to be released on bail. Instead, now police can quote from the letter which I believe may have release the person after the arrest and the been sent to other honourable members as issue of a notice to appear. well—— 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 443

"It is with some concern that we that a conviction will not result, they are understand that the Police Powers and accused of being lazy and uncaring. Either Responsibilities Bill is before the House way, they are in trouble. this morning. I believe that the police officers who work There has been no opportunity for in my electorate are excellent representatives appropriate community consultation in of the police force. They do an excellent job. I relation to the Bill as was the case when do not believe any member of this Chamber the original legislation was brought in. Due would intend that his or her remarks in relation to the manner in which it has been to this Bill should be seen as a criticism of presented, that is a completely new Bill police officers. It is more a question of dealing with no detailed information as to the with the rights and access to liberty of our changes contained within it, it has been constituents. impossible by this time to undertake a One of the changes introduced in the comprehensive analysis of the Bill and its Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill possible impact. We do know that it is not concerns significantly enhanced covert simply a consolidation Bill and that it gives surveillance opportunities. Around the time the police new powers. For example, the when the Bill was originally introduced in 1997 extension of the move on powers to places such as malls is of some there had been an incident—and I cannot significance to young people. recall in which State—in which a motel owner Unnecessary criminalisation of young had been charged, and I think convicted, of people is likely as a result of the removal having surveillance cameras in his motel of the obligation to warn that a failure to rooms. Motel guests were unaware of the comply with a move on direction will be an presence of these cameras. The motel owner offence. was charged with something more serious than mere voyeurism. Some female motel In all the circumstances, we urgently guests were interviewed in a fairly sensitive request that proper opportunity be manner and were absolutely devastated to provided for comment on the Bill before it know that their privacy had been invaded. is dealt with by Parliament." They were devastated to find that they had That letter was sent by Janet Wight, legal been videotaped during their stay at the motel. education solicitor. I would commend the I believe that incident enabled many matters that Janet Wight raised. honourable members to seriously consider this The legislation was tabled in this House a legislation. I am sure we all had visions of fortnight ago. I believe most members who these devastated ladies in our minds. We do looked at the legislation would have found that not have such an incident before us this time, the Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill is but it is clear that people can inadvertently find not dissimilar to the Native Title Bill. When the themselves involved in a covert surveillance Native Title Bill was introduced into the House operation. When a person is subjected to it incorporated existing legislation and added a covert surveillance, it is almost inevitable that layer of new legislation. Where the new some other person in that household or in that legislation was not clearly identified, one was business will be an innocent bystander and will faced with the prospect of having to compare be caught up in the surveillance and have their existing law with the Bill in an effort to discover privacy invaded. We must bring some what was new. Even though this Bill has been solemnity to this debate. Surveillance should on the table for the period necessary for its not be used unless there is no better way of maturation, I do not believe we have had gaining evidence which leads to a conviction of enough time to consider its ramifications. the guilty party. It has been a challenge to clearly The matter of strip searching has already understand what new powers are being been touched on by other honourable conferred on police officers by this Bill. Most members. One intention of strip searching was honourable members are aware of the to prevent contraband being taken into prison. excellent work performed by our police force. Visitors to prisons who were suspected of The officers work in very daunting having brought contraband to a prison would circumstances and in very trying situations. be targeted for strip searching. The intention They are in a no-win situation. If they work was that people would not be strip-searched hard to enforce the law in emotive without genuine cause. From reports in the circumstances they will be accused of using media, it is obvious to many people in the violence and unnecessary force. If they do not community that the boundary has been take action in a circumstance where they know overstepped. A report appeared in the Courier- 444 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

Mail a couple of days ago of a young girl who I have spoken to an officer in my was strip searched because she had an electorate who works in a fairly challenging outstanding warrant. This shows that there are area where young people congregate. He has instances where powers, which are conferred used the move-on powers. He is very thankful with the very best of intentions, are for them, because he recognises some of the intentionally or inadvertently abused. It takes a people who repeatedly cause difficulties. I am long time for the community member involved not referring to a group of people who are to recover from such an experience. The same constantly causing problems, but young kids sort of thing will occur with covert surveillance. I who egg each other on and who are not draw the Minister's attention to the need for troublemakers but are caught inadvertently. that aspect of the legislation to be very They will be told by the police that they are carefully monitored. being obstructive. They will think that is half a In one of the publications that I received joke, and then be caught and potentially face there was a QPS table indicating that, a conviction when they are not really bad kids between July 1998 and June 1999, two covert at all. search warrants were applied for—not granted, I also wondered whether some but applied for; there were 22 class A explanation could be given for the changes to surveillance device applications; and there the test for an arrest under the Bail Act. The were two class B surveillance device test was a reasonable belief, which is a higher applications. I ask the Minister: if it can be test than reasonable suspicion. I could have shown that the applications and/or the overlooked the area in which the Minister has granting of those applications increases commented on this change because it is a big exponentially, will he be prepared to give an Bill, but I have not been able to identify clearly undertaking to review the circumstances in why the test has been reduced. I know that which those approvals are given? the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee was also There was some discussion about this tested by the time frame to provide a issue in relation to strip searches. However, I comment on this Bill. However, the committee think the general consensus was that they also asks the Parliament that same question would not be overused. I think that enough as to why the test has been reduced. I wonder information has come to light through the why that was done. media and through personal communication I commend the Minister for giving police with members for the Minister to know that the power in this legislation to take identifying there are circumstances in which the particulars. However, the Bill directs that if the appropriateness of the use of strip searches person is found not guilty, those identifying could be questioned. I ask the Minister particulars must be destroyed. Although I have whether he is prepared to give an undertaking been a member of this place for only four or that, if those applications increase five years, in that time the issue has been exponentially, he will review the use of covert raised regularly that powers are used to take surveillance. identifying particulars of people under quite a Another issue that I wanted to raise is one number of pieces of legislation. It is fine that that was raised by the previous speaker, and those particulars are kept on record when the that is the move-on powers. I would like to person has committed an offence and been clarify one issue with the Minister. The police convicted. However, in cases where the person are being given the power to give directions to has not committed an offence and been citizens who are suspected of obstructing a convicted, those identifying particulars should public official. I wonder whether the Minister not be retained. I certainly commend the could give some clarification of "obstruction". It Minister for the guidelines which state that, if is not defined in the legislation. The word is no conviction is recorded, those particulars subject to very subjective interpretation. There have to be withdrawn. is a concern that young people—and When the police powers legislation was particularly young people, because they often introduced to the Parliament in 1997, the then do not think of the ramifications of what they Minister gave an undertaking that do—may be caught up in a direction of a accompanying the Responsibilities Code there police officer. As is the wont of some young would be a statement of intent tabled in the people, they will turn around and give the Parliament. Again, it may be in the police officer a bit of light lip. Under these documentation—and I apologise to the powers, the police officers can then justifiably Minister if it is—but if it is not I wonder if it is still arrest them. They might not be bad kids, intended that that statement of intent be although I know that some are a real included. I ask that question on the basis that I challenge. do not believe that the Responsibilities Code is 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 445 subordinate legislation. It will not be scrutinised powers were debated we were concerned specifically by the Legislative Assembly. about the ability of the Public Interest Monitor However, it can have quite a marked effect on to know when these applications were going to the community. As the saying goes, the devil court and to be able to attend. In a number of is often in the detail. instances in this Bill, it is mandatory that the There is a great deal of good in the Public Interest Monitor be advised that an Responsibilities Code. In my own electorate, a application is going to court as opposed to him resident who was going through the process to or her being left to their own devices as to become a JP came to see me. That person finding out when applications are lodged. had a query about the number of JPs at the I know the pat answer in relation to the police station and how attentive those JPs restrictions concerning access to surveillance would be to the content of a warrant, or warrant applications and hearings for the whether the JPs just signed it off. That was just extension of surveillance warrants is that the a generic inquiry; it was not a criticism of recording of proceedings of an application are anyone. The code of conduct states that a JP not to be made. I understand the sensitivity of within a police station cannot sign the warrant; the application, its implications in relation to they have to find a JP external to the police undercover police work, especially in the drugs station to sign it. That is an excellent area. However, I wonder why no record is safeguard, because it safeguards not only the being kept, particularly if subsequent to the officers but also the JPs. However, those surveillance there is a reaction by the person guidelines are not subject to the scrutiny of who had been the subject of surveillance in Parliament or the scrutiny of any parliamentary terms of the abuse of their rights. How can the officers. I would be interested to know whether case be proved either for or against the the Minister is intending to table that claimant when there is no record of the document. application or the proceedings of the application? I would see that as putting the The Scrutiny of Legislation Committee person who has been under surveillance at a also queries why the ordinary powers that can distinct disadvantage, as well as the police be exercised in the case of search warrants officers who are involved in the application. I are inadequate to deal with secondary crime seek the Minister's reasons for that, given the scenes. It appears that the Minister will not be fact that much of the information would be responding to those questions raised by the kept in secure premises anyway. Scrutiny of Legislation Committee. I would be interested in hearing an answer to that query, The Queensland Bill does not contain if he can provide it, in his reply. specific contravention provisions concerning the unlawful placement of surveillance devices. This legislation confers new powers on In Western Australia, there are penalties of up police officers, not the least of which is the to $5,000 or imprisonment for up to 12 monitoring order for the general Police Service months. These disincentives, whilst not great, as opposed to those police who work in the are at least a sobering control on those who drugs and crimes confiscation areas. Again, I have this power conferred on them by the bring to the Minister's attention the importance Queensland Bill. I wonder what rationale the of monitoring to ensure that those powers are Minister used to exclude any provisions in the not abused. Queensland legislation which would penalise I think that most residents of the an officer or a person seeking approval to use community are quick to respond to policing a surveillance device. They appear to be only issues. At election times, politicians are wont to internal penalties as applied to the Police raise policing issues, as the law and order Service. Again, I think most people in our policy of any member standing for Parliament community want a safe environment to live in. is important to the community. However, there It is incumbent on us to support that wish. has to be a balance between law and order However, it is also incumbent on us to ensure and the intrusion of such legislation on that balance is maintained and that people's people's rights to live in an unfettered manner. rights and liberties are protected as well as One of the mechanisms by which the their safety. community's freedom could be protected was Mrs GAMIN (Burleigh—NPA) (3.21 p.m.): the Public Interest Monitor. In this legislation, it In debating the Police Powers and is pleasing to note that it is mandatory for the Responsibilities Bill 2000, I am conscious, as Public Interest Monitor to be present at the the member for a Gold Coast suburban seat, applications for the installation of covert of the substantial need for action to counteract surveillance devices. I commend the Minister noise and other nuisances that impact on for that. I remember that last time police residents in their homes and on their streets. It 446 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 is chiefly about the powers relating to noise, same imperative of public policy and call for Part 3 of the Bill, that I will speak today. the same sort of police attention and action as However, I would first like to echo some of the nuisances in public places like street malls and comments made yesterday by my colleague pavement dining areas. In particular, in my and shadow Minister, the honourable member own area we have the problem of street for Toowoomba South. He expressed some parties. These are a phenomenon of our times very sound concerns over the move-on powers and are assisted by the technology of the of the police. This Bill addresses that issue. I Internet and other means of broadcasting know that the honourable member for information brought to us by the Toowoomba South has other plans in mind as communication revolution. It is very important well. that local communities are able to respond In the urban environment, the move-on quickly to disturbances of the peace in our provisions are particularly important in the streets by what we might call mobile street times in which we live. As the honourable parties. They are mobile in two senses: they member for Toowoomba South pointed out arrive out of the blue on a street and a yesterday, for some time there have been principal means of advertising their impending certain places where police have an automatic presence to potential party goers is the mobile telephone. I will speak a little more about that power to move people on. As he noted, this in a moment or two. power to move on is under existing legislation applied only in places where there is an Clause 286(1) of the Bill states that police interference to trade, where there is a powers relating to noise apply to the presence of groups or individuals who may not abatement of environmental nuisance caused be breaking the law but who are causing by excessive noise that is emitted from a place anxiety and unpleasantness to people, or by a musical instrument; an appliance for where people in a community are not allowed electrically producing or amplifying music or to enjoy a certain place, such as the main other sounds; a motor vehicle, other than a street or shopping area, or are not allowed to motor vehicle on a road; a gathering of people enjoy taking their children to or from school or for a meeting, party, celebration or similar to use railway stations or other facilities. gathering; and is audible in any residential or commercial premises. This Bill provides that He takes the view—and I am sure he these provisions do not apply to the speaks for all members on this side of the abatement of excessive noise from a place House—that as a society we need to be a bit where an open air concert or commercial tougher on people who seem to like disrupting entertainment is being staged, by a public the lives of others. I believe it is essential that meeting under a permit under any Act or law the law provide for proper protection for the authorising sound amplification by electrical or elderly person or any other person using an other means or in another way. So it is not a ATM machine by means of move-on powers. It measure that will impact on big ticket events in is commonsense to apply move-on laws to the any locality. It is simply a measure to control immediate environs of ATM machines. excessive interruption of other people's lives by I am attracted to the fact that local essentially noisy neighbours—and, in the governments have a role in determining what context of street parties to which I referred should be a move-on area in their locality. We earlier, noisy temporary neighbours. on this side of the House are all in favour of Let me talk a bit about street parties. empowering local communities to make their About 15 to 18 months ago, when street own decisions in line with their own demands parties first started to impact on my area, and their own preferences. That seems to us young people were communicating with each to be commonsense. People closest to a other by means of fliers. From time to time, the situation—any situation—are always best police would get hold of one of these fliers, placed to make decisions on how to respond. they would know where the next party would As my honourable friend the shadow Minister be and they were able to target the area. But noted yesterday, we know that young people communications have improved vastly for like to congregate in order to enjoy their youth young people over the past 12 to 18 months. and the pleasures of the suburb or town in They are now using mobile phones and the which they live. But it is no part of sensible Internet. public policy to acquiesce in behaviour causing serious anxiety, unpleasantness or street Let me describe a street party held in a disturbances. suburban street in my area the weekend before last a block or so from the main Gold I turn to the issue of powers relating to Coast highway. Just as it was getting dark, the noise which, in many instances, capture the residents of the area noticed nobody out in the 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 447 street at all. As the evening wore on, half a operating video cameras, that was the turning dozen young people gathered. More and point in getting rid of these point parties. more people gathered. At about 8 o'clock, the As the police questioned these young neighbours rang Broadbeach police to warn people, they found that they came from high them that something was going to happen in schools from all over the southern Gold the area and that it would be a good idea to Coast—Palm Beach, Elanora, Marymount, nip it in the bud. Seeing that there were only Miami, Merrimac—and as far away as 20 young people or so there, that would hardly Helensvale. The Gold Coast police say that warrant the communications room at the 80% or 90% of the young people who gather Broadbeach Police Station sending a police at these street parties are basically decent kids car. who are caught up in this modern trend. They By 10 o'clock, there were several hundred say also that 10% to 20% of them are young people gathered in this quiet suburban hardcore trouble-makers. Honourable street. They had arrived on foot, on bikes, in members would be amazed at the number of maxi taxis and in many instances their parents people with outstanding warrants who are had dropped them. Many of them brought questioned by the police. their own folding chairs and eskies. Booze was On the first night that the three police being sold out of cars. Older people had cars, two paddy wagons, the Traffic Branch bought the booze, and the younger ones were and the police Dog Squad were on hand a paying for it. By 10 o'clock that night, they police officer was injured, one girl was raped were literally off their faces. They were and a large number of notices to appear were urinating, defecating and vomiting in people's issued. I join with the local people of that area gardens and against their carport walls. It was in congratulating the Gold Coast police on the a horrendous situation. way they handled, and have been handling, this difficult and serious situation. They have At about half past 10, it took quite a large been handling it in a calm manner. Videoing number of police officers to clear them away these parties is an excellent idea. The videos from the area. They moved across the are then taken around to the schools and highway to McDonald's, which had to close its shown to the students in an attempt to identify front doors and direct its customers through the ringleaders. Senior police in the Gold the drive-in. This was a very serious situation. Coast region took the matter so seriously that These young people are mostly 12 or 13 years at one stage it was suggested that the Tactical old. They are in Years 8 and 9 at school. Response Group should be brought in. That is Over the summer holidays, every Friday not what we want. I do not want to see 150 and Saturday night in my area of Goodwin twelve year old kids in the Southport Watch- Terrace, along the main beachfront of Burleigh house. I do not wish to see the Tactical Heads, it was an absolute nightmare for the Response Group turning up with its flak jackets residents and the tourists of the area. It and batons. The Gold Coast police are reached such an extraordinary degree that handling it, but it is a serious and worrying eventually early in January I had a meeting in situation. my office between local residents and some of As I said earlier, the parties are highly the senior members of the Gold Coast regional mobile. They might have shifted from Goodwin police. They decided that they would target Terrace for the time being, but we do not know this area and try to get rid of these street where they will be next. A few weeks ago they parties—the "point parties" they called them, were held at Ashmore. I note that the Minister after Burleigh Point. That is how they notified for Tourism, the honourable member for each other, "The point party is on tonight." Currumbin, is in the House. I am sure she has The police tried to get rid of them from had exactly the same experiences in her area. this particular area. To do so, they had to bring Last year when these problems were starting in a regional response. This involved far more and party goers were congregating in the Palm than one police car from Broadbeach. There Beach area, the Palm Beach officers collected were several hundred young people. There a few of the female party goers and took them were so many young people that they could to the Palm Beach Police Station in the middle overrun a police car like a swarm of ants on a of the night and rang their parents. Guess who piece of meat. To control this situation, over was abused? The parents abused the police! several weekends we had three police cars, Just after the Christmas holidays started two paddy wagons, traffic police in unmarked in December, I had a visit to my office from a cars and dogs. Then the police started couple of parents and I also had a couple of videoing them. Once the police started phone calls from parents asking me various 448 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 questions. They asked, "Mrs Gamin, what is are never sufficient numbers. They are always the Government going to do to provide short. On any given day the Palm Beach entertainment for my child?" I asked, "How old Police Station would be 10 officers short. They is your child?" The children were aged 12 and might be on recreation leave, sick leave, RDOs 14 years. I know times have changed, but I or in court or somewhere else. They are not truly do not believe it is the responsibility of there. I make an impassioned plea for more Government to provide permanent police strength on the Gold Coast, particularly entertainment for 12 and 14 year old children. on the southern coast and more particularly at One parent was particularly aggressive towards Palm Beach. The great unresolved question of me. I suggested sporting clubs and the surf- this Government's police policy is the eternal lifesaving clubs. The lifesaving clubs in my budgetary question. The question is very electorate are excellent. They pay particular difficult to answer and address in a meaningful attention to young people. They are great. I way. suggested to one mother that there are However, there can be no arguments sporting and lifesaving clubs. She said, "Mrs about the powers of police officers Gamin, I work and I'm tired on weekends. I investigating complaints. Excessive noise is can't be bothered driving the kids around and I one of the most worrisome aspects of life in want to spend a bit of time with my partner." I the urban environment, and I am sure people am a bit horrified by all of this. I do not know will welcome any measures to tighten up on what the answers are. I do not have any facile compliance with the norms of civilised society. answers to this problem. However, I do know Proposed sections 288 and 289 deal with that the Gold Coast police and I are finding the powers of police officers on investigation of these mobile street parties extremely worrying complaints. Proposed section 288(1) applies if and very concerning. We have to be able to a police officer is reasonably satisfied— deal with them adequately. "(a) the noise complained of is clearly I wish to return specifically to the audible at or near the complainant's provisions of the Bill that relate to noise residential or commercial premises; abatement. Proposed section 287 makes it and possible for a person who reasonably believes noise emitted from a place to be excessive to (b) the noise is excessive noise in the make a complaint to a police officer. It requires circumstances." that, as soon as practicable after a complaint The proposed section continues— is made, a police officer must investigate that "(2) In deciding whether noise is complaint or cause it to be investigated unless excessive noise in the circumstances, it is judged frivolous or vexatious. That brings a police officer may have regard to— us to the great question mark that hangs over (a) the degree of interference the the exercise of all police powers and noise is causing or is likely to responsibilities: are there sufficient resources, cause to the conduct of the including human resources, available to do the activities ordinarily carried out in job? the neighbourhood of the place While the Minister is in the House, I make from which the noise is being a plea for more police on the Gold Coast. The emitted; and Minister was at the Palm Beach Police Station (b) the nature of the lawful uses a few weeks ago, when it was dedicated as a permitted for premises in the model police station. That is a great honour for neighbourhood of the place from Palm Beach and a feather in its cap. It has which the noise is being emitted. systems and programs in place that will be (3) A police officer may— followed by similar stations of the same size throughout Queensland. But it does not have (a) without a warrant, enter the enough staff. It is a 35-man police station. I place from which the noise is am sure that, if we asked for the list, we would being emitted; and find 35 names or 35 positions. A couple of (b) direct the occupier of the place, sergeants positions might be waiting to be and the other persons who filled, but 35 officers is the strength of the appear to the officer to be station. However, on any given day the responsible for causing the noise rostering officer would not have 25 blokes to or permitting the noise to be man the cars and to do the rostered tasks caused, to immediately abate required of that station. The Palm Beach the excessive noise from the Police Station is not unusual. Every police place (a 'noise abatement station would be in the same situation. There direction'). 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 449

(4) A noise abatement direction may be responsibilities have been under the given orally or by written notice." microscope with ever-increasing scrutiny. The Proposed section 289 states— confidence of the general public in the ability of the police to perform their duty has never "Compliance with noise abatement been more questioned, especially in the area direction of juveniles and juvenile crime. Hopefully, the 289(1) A person to whom a noise move-on powers under this Bill will address this abatement direction is given situation. must— Over the past 20 months or so, primarily (a) immediately comply with the one issue—and this is the one that I will direction; and concentrate on—continually crops up, that is, (b) refrain from the emission, or what is perceived as a lack of security of contributing to the emission, of position for police and citizens alike when it excessive noise from the place comes to performance of duty of the former to which the direction relates for and the rights of the latter. The confusion of a period of 12 hours from the the general public as to what can and cannot giving of the direction." be done by our police force has become a I will not go through all of the rest of proposed constant concern in many communities. Once section 289 or proposed section 290, which is again, one of the more difficult areas appears headed "Additional powers of police officers on to relate to juveniles. Perhaps this Bill will aid in later investigation". helping the public understand and improve their confidence. One of the real problems of today's society is that some people—people who hold The trend seems to be for juveniles to noisy parties without any thought for their form gangs and hang around shop entrances, neighbours, for example—are apt to thumb swear and generally create a public nuisance their noses at the authorities who have told by harassment or intimidation of the general them to behave. Interestingly, section 289 public, the shop owners and staff. I will report provides that, if a noise abatement direction instances of this to the House. The police have has been given about a place and within 12 a task that very few of us would like to take on. hours the same problem is reported, the police Although I will be bringing up instances which may seize the offending equipment. As a have taken place in my electorate, the majority general rule, I do not believe in arbitrary of police are forced to walk a very fine line and powers, but I have to say on the question of are to be congratulated on their efforts. This peace in our suburbs that the prospect of Bill will help define the line. One letter that I some rudely errant boom box being subject to have received from a concerned citizen seizure by police has definite appeal. states— There are some areas of this Bill that are "On these particular occasions it was less than ideal. After all, it has been presented 11.30 pm on a Sunday night ... the night by a Government that has shown itself to be watchman"— profoundly uninterested in genuine with the suspects in view— consultation with interest groups in the community. It says all the right things and the "attempted to telephone the police. The Government always gets squadrons of public call was diverted to another station who relation consultants out in spruiking mode at informed us that no-one would be the drop of a hat but, as many people are available till 8.30 am the next morning." discovering, this is all a bit of a sham. We will It goes on— be watching very carefully the implementation of this legislation, which I do support. I support "The next morning I went to the the Bill before the House. police station and was informed there would be no police available until 10.00 Mrs PRATT (Barambah—IND) am. I returned to the station at the time (3.38 p.m.): I rise to speak to the Police and stated my case to the police officer Powers and Responsibilities Bill 2000. As has regarding the sequence of events of the been stated by many honourable members, previous night. During the conversation the purpose of the Bill is to finalise the Police the police officer informed me he was in Powers and Responsibilities Act 1997, which the station all night the previous night." was never completed. In this day and age, it is not always easy to define the boundaries of This clearly shows that the communication what is acceptable and who has responsibility network in rural areas needs addressing. Here for what. Law and order and police powers and is another little excerpt. It states— 450 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

"Small groups of louts—known to goods. When this group is sitting in front police—Business Houses and the of our business customers are not willing Community in general—continually cause to enter our business as they are financial and social problems in our town. frightened for their safety. The town at The Police representation in our town present is being held to ransom by a does not meet with the needs of the group of teenagers." honest citizens of our area. Most of the people who have spoken to me Any pressure you can apply to have have asked what can be done. Many police the Nanango Police on duty 24 hours per officers themselves have stated that they day will be greatly appreciated." cannot do anything. I ask the Minister to seriously consider this There is often a perception that it is in request, for the problems are escalating in the children's best interests for them not to be area. The following extract is another example. dealt with in a severe manner, that a sentence It states— or lack thereof issued by the courts or police "A local man, who has been vocal does nothing. For some children, it is a rite of against these people was recently passage and they gain esteem for undertaking confronted by one of them with a pair of some misdemeanour and virtually getting scissors. This happened in daylight in the away with it. Again, the move-on clauses may main street of town, with several address this. independent witnesses. The man When we do not recognise the disarmed his attacker, and then went to seriousness of juvenile offenders' actions we the police station. At the time our police are not doing them any favours. By minimising station was unmanned, and the matter the gravity of their actions and being overly was reported to Gympie using the call box lenient, we are inadvertently bestowing upon at the police station. Nothing more was them the belief that they are untouchable, that heard until the police visited him and anything they do is forgivable, that they can threatened to charge him with assault. virtually do anything. Again, as in all things, we Some of the local lads have taken to must be very open, have a balanced mind and hanging around business, almost daring treat all instances in a very fair way. We must the shop keeper to say anything. They also be willing to recognise when past have been seen poking fingers through practices, although implemented with good wrapping on the meat at the ... intent, have not achieved their desired result Supermarket and lounging on new and change them. The Police Powers and furniture in the window of the Hardware." Responsibilities Bill hopes to achieve a defined line of action that can be undertaken by our Honourable members can see that this has police. Hopefully it will also protect them from been an ongoing problem for a long time. To those who would endeavour to put the rights show how it is starting to affect the people, I of the perpetrators of crimes before those of will read the following excerpt from that letter— the victims of crime. It is also hoped that the "The mood in town is becoming passage of this Bill will ensure that the general increasingly ugly with talks of vigilantes populace now know exactly what can and needed to sort out a problem our police cannot be done. cannot handle. One shop keeper is reportedly sleeping with a rifle beside his I recently received a deputation which bed." informed me of the uncomfortable position in which those in the teaching profession are now As honourable members can imagine, the finding themselves because the present usual stories are flying around. These are just system appears to be unable to give them any a few of the letters that I have received. A lot protection. Our teachers and principals are have been received over the past 36 to 48 responsible for the children in their care and hours. I have, in fact, given them to the they are endeavouring to maintain discipline in Minister and he is looking into them. Hopefully order to provide a safe and exciting learning that will lead to good results. Another writer environment for our children. To do this, it has speaks of juveniles hanging around outside been necessary for measures to be adopted their shop. The letter states— by which a child is reprimanded or, as a final "If you the shop owner or a member resort, removed from a school. In instances of the staff ask them ... to move on ... which have been reported to me by the abuse verbally and the threat of payback. principal and other staff, following such action The payback comes in the form of their homes and vehicles have been breaking into your business and stealing bombarded with eggs and stones and their 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 451 spouses have been verbally abused and Today we saw outside the walls of this taunted while shopping and in public areas. House a demonstration, one of many that They and their families have been subjected to have been held since the Beattie Government anonymous phone calls and the school has came to power. Because I went out and talked suffered graffiti attacks. An elderly resident has to them, I know that these people feel that also been the victim of this abuse simply they have been relegated to the dole queues. because her car is very similar to that of the That is more people with idle hands. As they principal and was mistaken for it. said to me, idle hands breed mischief. There is It has been stated to me that the police no telling what society will be like as the jobs of seem powerless against these children who more and more people are exported overseas gang up with older hooligans who no longer and those people end up on the dole queues. attend school and apparently have nothing It all comes down to implementing more laws. better to do than to harass staff and their The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill will families. This behaviour is totally unacceptable hopefully address situations that we may not by any standards I know of, with the possible have had to think about years ago. exception of those of the civil libertarians. This Mr LAMING (Mooloolah—LP) (3.50 p.m.): persecution has led to the statement that, if it It gives me pleasure to speak on the Police continues, teachers and principals will resign or Powers and Responsibilities Bill. I was on the retire long before they need to. We cannot Bills Committee with the previous Minister, Mr afford to lose highly trained, quality teaching Cooper. I recognise the importance of this staff because of the lack of ability or desire by legislation and the amount of work that went the system to support staff who are into preparing it. As with any new legislation, it endeavouring to do the job we are expecting is not going to be 100% correct at the start. It them to do. Hopefully, again, the move-on is going to need some finetuning. I trust that clause will address this situation. this Bill will be no different. It is time for the civil libertarians to move Every member of this House says what a over because their live and let live attitude and great job the police in their own electorate do. I their fairy floss philosophies that children am certainly no exception to that. With the should be allowed to express themselves in changes in society, police are called upon to whatever way they choose have proved do work that 20 years ago we would not have disastrous for communities. Children learn the believed they would have to do. They have difference between acceptable and adapted very well. One of the reasons we unacceptable behaviour only by experiencing need new legislation is for our police to adapt the consequences of that behaviour—good to new challenges. The three areas I want to behaviour, good consequence; bad behaviour, address in the debate on the Police Powers bad consequence. Today we have hard-core and Responsibilities Bill today relate to the individuals and gangs of children behaving distribution of police on the Sunshine Coast, abominably and the community is suffering the the powers available for certain types of consequences. How fair is that? How can that offences and the hardy annual issue of police be justified? numbers throughout Queensland, particularly I ask the Minister for Education and the on the north coast. Minister for Police and Corrective Services to evaluate these complaints and come to an In relation to the distribution of police officers on the Sunshine Coast, I had some urgent agreement in the hope of finding a dealings in ensuring that the Kawana Waters solution. As we see in all areas of life, unruly area was given a police station. That occurred behaviour is becoming part and parcel of our during the Goss Government. I think Mr everyday lives. This morning there was an Braddy was the Minister at the time. example in the House; I hope every single person who was here feels suitably ashamed, Mr Nuttall: You are not taking all the because I am pretty sure that the people in credit for that, are you? the gallery would not have found it acceptable Mr LAMING: No, I am not taking all the behaviour in modern society. credit. I was working very hard for my Unruly behaviour, unfortunately, is electorate, as I am sure the member for occurring at sporting events, as we saw with Sandgate works very hard in his electorate. the tennis being disrupted not too long ago by The situation is that that station is not a 24- some individual. We have seen it at the hour station. It operates mainly in daylight cricket, with cans and bottles being thrown on hours. The population increase in the Kawana the grounds, and we have seen it in soccer. As area is quite huge. The station is strategically many people have stated, let us hope it does located on the Nicklin Way, which is the not happen during the Olympic Games. busiest road on the Sunshine Coast. As such, 452 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 a lot of people who perhaps do not live in the with DPI Fisheries or Harbours and Marine. I area but drive past to go to work, school and understand that a similar situation exists on other activities drop into the police station to the Gold Coast and that it works very well. report thefts and so on. I believe it is high time I would like to think that the Minister could this station was extended to at least two shifts give consideration to that sort of cooperation totalling 16 hours so it is open until midnight. A with the Maritime Division of Queensland trial has been undertaken. It was a very good Transport or Fisheries and other organisations trial and it proved the benefit in having that that need to be together on the waterfront. I police station open for longer hours. hope that consideration is given to that. I do The Mooloolaba police beat, which has not have the figures, but I wonder whether the been going for about five or six years, has Minister can avail himself of figures for the proven to be an excellent strategic placement length of coastline covered by the water police, of police in an area that, over the last few the number of vessels registered in that area years, has needed a police presence. I believe and what staffing levels and equipment that the situation there is improving thanks to Mooloolaba has compared with some of the not only police numbers but also initiatives by other areas. I do not wish for that exercise to community organisations, the council and local take anything away from other police depots, traders. We need to keep that effort up in that but I think that Mooloolaba might be seen as area. I would hope that officers can be made not being as well equipped on a responsibility available to the Mooloolaba police beat. It is basis as some of those other places. doing a good job, but it is certainly suffering a little from not having quite as many officers so There is another issue I want to raise, and as to make the job a little easier for those who I have mentioned most of these issues in this find themselves stationed there. place before. There is to be a new station at Beerwah. There has been an undertaking that The Sunshine Coast Police Service the Landsborough Police Station will remain, recently trialled a presence in Buderim, and I certainly hope it does. It should not be something that has been sought after for a seen just in juxtaposition with the work to be long time by its residents. It is not a high crime done out of Beerwah. The Landsborough area, but I might suggest—and I do not think I Police Station also services the townships of would get much disagreement by honourable Mooloolah and Eudlo, which is further north. members—that we do not wait for the problem to occur before putting police officers in. If we Mr Barton: The undertaking has already do, it is a rearguard action and playing catch- been given. up football in order to get on top of the Mr LAMING: That is good. I am glad that problem. It is always better to have a presence the Minister has reiterated that undertaking. I of police officers which quite often keeps crime am sure the people there will appreciate it. away and discourages people from unlawful Perhaps down the track when the Beerwah activities. The police presence in that area has station is being constructed—and this is being been operating out of the post office at, as I investigated—the situation at Mooloolah and understand it, no cost. The community really Eudlo should be looked at. It is a long way appreciates the occasional presence of police between Landsborough and Palmwoods, on Buderim Mountain. which is the next station further north. There Another matter which is quite serious and are two towns there with a significant one that is not often discussed very much population. That is another reason why when talking about police is the water police. Landsborough should be kept intact. This initiative arrived on the Sunshine Coast in Mr Barton: I was there last Friday looking the last five or six years and is based at at the situation and again gave the locals that Mooloolaba. Water police do a great job. They undertaking. are not quite as visible to most people as Mr LAMING: I thank the Minister for that those police operating on the streets. I undertaking. commend the water police officers, the same two officers who originally came to the area. Turning to the second issue I wish to They are doing a great job, but they are in very raise, which refers directly to police powers, an cramped circumstances. They are in an office issue which regularly comes up at that is leased from the Mooloolaba Yacht Neighbourhood Watch meetings I attend is the Club. I have been to visit them from time to frustration that people in the community feel time. I do believe that, with the importance of about what is commonly called hoon their work, they deserve a better office, drivers—those who have very loud exhausts perhaps on the Mooloolaba Spit. Perhaps they and squeal the tyres, particularly at night. could make arrangements to share their office Although this might not register as high on the 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 453 list of crimes, it is certainly one of those things somewhat lost. I have raised this issue in this that annoys hundreds of people at night, place before. It is good to see that particularly on the weekends. Queensland's police to population numbers I brought up this matter at the recent are getting fairly close to the Australian AGM of the Community Police Partnership. average. I believe that is an improvement. I This body does an excellent job of combining compliment recent Police Ministers from both the thoughts of the community about and its sides of politics for achieving that. aspirations for crime prevention on the However, the north coast region still Sunshine Coast. It has the active involvement shows quite a significant departure from the of the three mayors on the Sunshine Coast. average. I have done a bit of work on this That it has support at that level is a signal that subject and I have spoken to people in the it is doing a good job. human resources section of the service and When I raised this matter at the meeting with the Police Commissioner. The problem there was general agreement among the gets back to the police staffing allocation people there that this is a significant model. We can debate the model and whether community problem that is very difficult to it could be changed. police. From speaking to police officers about I asked the Minister a question and he this matter I know that one of the problems is answered by saying that he did not think it identifying who was actually driving the vehicle would make much difference to the numbers when it made the noise. People can get the on the coast without affecting other regions, registration number and the description of the but there must be something wrong vehicle. It may even be apprehended shortly somewhere if one region shows such a after on the same evening, but the driver can significant departure. I am not looking at this say, "I was not driving the vehicle." I know that from a parochial point of view in relation to the this may relate more to an Act administered by Sunshine Coast or the Maroochy district. I am the Minister for Transport, but I would like this keeping my comments broad and relating Minister to give some consideration to making them to the region. The north coast region is the driver of the vehicle responsible, as we do quite big; it goes from Redcliffe up to with speed and red-light cameras. I do not Bundaberg. The other region that is similarly know what the Minister thinks about that at first disadvantaged is the Minister's own region, blush, but he might like to discuss that with which takes in the Logan area, probably for police officers. the same reasons. If somebody was really causing a problem Mr Musgrove: He has a selfless devotion and they had to be pursued and to his portfolio. apprehended, that provision would obviate the necessity for police to chase a vehicle, which is Mr LAMING: The problem did exist prior better avoided where possible. If an officer has to his becoming the Minister. I am a bit been able to identify the number of the surprised that he did not raise it then. vehicle—he might have seen it earlier in the This is quite a significant issue which evening and taken the number—the necessity needs to be addressed. As I said before, it is to chase that vehicle, which is always a obvious that, regardless of the powers we give dangerous procedure, would be obviated. police officers, unless they are on the ground A couple of years ago we were able to and unless they are visible then those powers change regulations in relation to drinking in a are somewhat limited in their application. public place. We were able to make that a I restate the three points I have brought SETONS offence, rather than an offence for to the attention of the House today. The first which people had to be charged and go to related to the distribution of the police stations court. We made it easier for police to do their on the coast, including the water police. The job. We need to give police new ways of second related to powers to deal with hoon dealing with people who are finding new ways drivers, who are a significant nuisance in the of avoiding police. People are finding ways to community. It highlights frustration in the avoid being brought to book and we need to community. People say that police are not give police officers new ways of addressing doing their job. I always assure them that they some of these problems that are becoming are doing their job but that there are some more prevalent in the community. difficulties in the application of the legislation. I mention police numbers. We can give The third issue was the allocation model and our police officers all the powers we would like, how it affects one or two regions in within reason, but unless we have adequate Queensland. I trust that the Minister will numbers of police in the community they are address those points. 454 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

Mrs ATTWOOD (Mount Ommaney—ALP) possible for police to cover all entry points at all (4.05 p.m.): I rise to support the Police Powers special events. It may be necessary to hire and Responsibilities Bill 2000 and I commend security guards to assist in checking people on the Minister for Police and Corrective Services entry to special event venues. These on the timeliness of this Bill. We are all looking authorised persons may be appointed by the forward to the Olympic Games and other Commissioner of Police. The powers of these events this year, but with every major event authorised persons will be limited to the terms there is uncertainty about personal safety. The of the appointment and will not be as broad as bigger the crowd, the more chance there is of a police officer's powers. These security guards something unforeseen and undesirable will need to be trained in a course which is happening. Despite the planning that goes approved by the Commissioner of Police. An into these events, it is not possible to predict identity card will be provided to authorised possible incidents which may occur and ways persons and this will need to be clearly to manage them. displayed on their person. It is our responsibility as a Government to The Police Powers and Responsibilities protect all Queenslanders who visit events. In Bill clearly sets out the powers that may be the case of international events such as the exercised at a special event. These include the Olympic soccer matches, the Goodwill Games power to ask a person for their reason for and the Commonwealth Heads of Government being at the site of the special event. If the Meeting, we need also to provide for the person is unable to comply with that request, protection of international spectators, athletes, they can be denied entry to the site. Electronic workers and officials. screening devices, similar to those used in This Bill aims to provide for public safety, airports worldwide, are able to be used at the which is crucial, and good order at these major site. Such devices include a walk-through events. This legislation can only be activated detector, an X-ray machine and a hand-held by the Governor in Council for the period set scanner. Authorised persons may ask an down for the special event. In order to enact entrant to remove an outer garment to check the legislation, the Minister must also be that no items are concealed underneath or in satisfied that there is a reasonable likelihood the garment. They may ask to inspect an that the event may be disrupted if the special entrants' belongings, vehicle or any article held event powers are not exercised, the exercise in the vehicle. Only if the official is of the same of the powers is necessary for the protection of gender as the entrant is he or she able to persons involved in the event or the exercise touch the outer garment of the entrant. In all of the powers is required as a condition of cases, if the entrant fails to comply, the entrant holding the event in Queensland. We need to can be removed from the site or refused encourage these special events for the benefit entrance. of our tourist industry and to promote Under this legislation, it will be an offence economic growth in our cities. If we cannot to enter or remain at a special event unless offer public safety, we will not attract these the person has paid the entry fee, if any, or events to Queensland. unless the person has the consent of the Fear of crime has emerged as one of the organiser and is authorised to enter or remain most important issues in many communities, on the site. It will also be an offence to enter or and the problem is almost as serious as crime remain in a restricted area at a special event itself, according to the Australian Institute of without a reasonable excuse. Criminology. To attract people to our special Other offences include disrupting, events we must provide them with a sense of interfering with, delaying or obstructing the protection. A notice of declaration of a special conduct of the special event, or an associated event will be published in a newspaper activity, or assaulting or obstructing an circulating throughout the State. At the event, authorised person exercising a power under people will be notified of the extent of the this part of the Bill. With special events— restricted area at the special event site. It particularly international events when Australia makes sense that a condition of entry will be is in the world's spotlight—the chance of a that each person entering does not take in or terrorist attack is increased. Consequently, possess a prohibited item. powers will be given to police to search an Of course, police will be needed in other aircraft without a warrant should there be a locations to attend to their normal everyday threat to life. We often hear of incidents activities. Suburban crime will not cease but overseas at special events. We in Australia are may increase as a result of major events not immune to similar incidents occurring here. taking place in Queensland. Therefore, it is not That is why it is important for police to be able 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 455 to respond immediately to protect life and people have taken the opportunity to raise property. some of their concerns about policing in some Clause 77 of the Bill allows for police to general areas, essentially everyone agrees search a transport vehicle without a warrant that this is good legislation. where there is a risk to life or property. This I particularly want to thank the members power also extends to searching an occupant for Springwood, Lytton, Mulgrave and Mount of that vehicle. It is pleasing to note that the Ommaney, who are all members of my same safeguards apply to other search parliamentary and legislation committee, for warrants. The approval of a magistrate must the very well thought out and reasoned be obtained as soon as practicable after the arguments that they put forward in support of search is completed. It is a relief to know that this Bill. I have appreciated their support right the hands of the police are not tied when through the drafting phase, at caucus and in trouble strikes at these events. talking to our colleagues about this issue. In I feel better knowing that, if any of these their own way, they have all brought their events were to take place in my electorate of particular knowledge and experience to this Mount Ommaney, our local police have these matter. powers to ensure that the community is The member for Springwood takes a very protected. It is extremely comforting to know keen local interest in law and order issues. He that with this legislation in place represents one of my neighbouring seats, so Queenslanders can enjoy and appreciate he and I rub shoulders at times on exactly the these events. The only individuals who have same issues. anything to fear are those who seek to disrupt The member for Lytton draws on his these events. experience as a practising solicitor. He has The work of the Queensland Police looked after people who have been offenders Service can only be praised. The officers' job is themselves and people who have been extremely difficult to carry out and they are offended against. He also has the important constantly exposed to criticism. I have found role of chairperson of the Parliamentary the police officers in the Mount Ommaney Criminal Justice Committee. region extremely cooperative and willing to I would like to thank the member for assist in particularly sensitive situations which occur in the area. Mulgrave, who was a Minister in the previous Labor Party Government. He is also from a Mr Musgrove: You are a great local police family. His father was a very long-serving member. police officer. I know from my involvement with Mrs ATTWOOD: I thank the member for the member, both from his previous term in Springwood. We need to support the police in the House and during his current term, that he their role. The Police Powers and has continued to take a keen interest in police Responsibilities Bill 2000 gives the police the matters. flexibility to carry out their job effectively, taking I would also like to thank the member for the rights of the innocent into consideration. I Mount Ommaney. The member has taken a commend the Bill to the House. very keen interest in policing issues—not just in Hon. T. A. BARTON (Waterford—ALP) her electorate but around the State. She has (Minister for Police and Corrective Services) also taken a keen interest in prison issues (4.13 p.m.), in reply: I was expecting to hear around the State. someone else, but in responding— I would like to thank those four An Opposition member: Were you honourable members for their contributions expecting us to take longer? because I know that their constituents would Mr BARTON: No. I am very grateful that be happy with the role they have played in this we are approaching the end of the second- debate. reading debate. I wish to thank all honourable I believe the first thing I should do is members who have participated in the debate. respond to some comments which were made It has been acknowledged by all parties that by members of the Opposition, members of this is very significant legislation. I think it is fair the Independents group and members of to say that all honourable members who spoke other parties in the Parliament. There has in the debate today and yesterday have been an attempt by the shadow Minister and indicated that they will be supporting the Bill. the previous Minister to rewrite history in a When one has such significant and important small way in this Parliament in the past two legislation before the Parliament it is days. In no way do I wish to denigrate all the heartening to have the indication that, whilst hard work those members contributed before 456 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 the Beattie Labor Government was elected at I do not want to be critical, but I make the the last election. I acknowledge that the 1997 point that it was not a question that nobody Police Powers and Responsibilities Act was a did anything until all of a sudden the coalition very important Act at that point in time. It put was in Government for that short period of two into place some major changes to police and a bit years and then everything changed. powers in this State. The coalition Government was able to draw on I know that the previous Minister, the the very good work that was done in the five member for Crows Nest, took exception to a and a half years of a Labor Government by a couple of words that I used. I think he was lot of people in a whole range of areas. Of course, I acknowledge that this Bill is part of being a little unfair in taking exception on that that ongoing process. The consultation took occasion, because all I was pointing out was place by the previous Minister. I was very that the 1997 Act was but one step in a whole pleased that he did that in a bipartisan way. I series which have occurred in the past 10 travelled with him to most of those public years as we have been on the long march to forums. At that time, I was well briefed. That address police powers issues in this State. public consultation was part of the public Major changes took place in 1997 but, despite consultation that has effected this Bill today. what the shadow Minister and the previous Minister said, the 1997 Act was not about That public consultation talked about the consolidating into one Act the 90-plus Acts increases in police powers that were put into across the State which contain police powers. the 1997 legislation. The public consultation That is what this Bill is all about. also covered the consolidation of the powers contained in 93 Acts into one single piece of I acknowledge the fact that the 1997 Act police powers and responsibilities legislation, was a very important part of that long process, which has come about as this Bill today. So it but it was only one part of the process. It was is not a matter of being critical; it is a matter of a process that was begun by the member for making sure that we all understand our Chatsworth, Terry Mackenroth, when he was respective places in the history of police Minister for Police and Emergency Services in powers and responsibilities in Queensland. 1990. As I said earlier, such things as the Sadly, the record will show that the member for notice to appear that were put into the 1997 Crows Nest—and I must say the member for Act were started by the member for Toowoomba South—have erred if they believe Chatsworth when he was Minister. that this is nothing more than a slight rewrite of The Criminal Justice Commission started the 1997 Act. This Bill certainly puts back into this long process with five or six major reports place all of the powers that were put into the on police powers. I would like to take a little 1997 Act. However, it does a lot more: it takes credit for my own involvement during that that very important step of consolidating each period because from 1992 to 1995 I was a and every police power in Queensland into member of the Parliamentary Criminal Justice one consolidated piece of legislation of this Committee which reviewed each and every Parliament. I will not say that it is the end of one of those reports on police powers which the road because, as I know very well—and to use an old colloquial term—"You ain't seen were brought down by the Criminal Justice nothing yet". This is the consolidation of all Commission and reported to this Parliament. It police powers into a single Act. was a long process. In many ways, it is the end of the road in The process continued during the various terms of that process that was commenced in periods when Messrs Mackenroth, Warburton 1990 of improving police powers and and Braddy were Police Ministers. I was a consolidating them into one single Act of member of the third Goss Government Parliament. However, I assure the members of between 1995 and 1996, and I was a member this Parliament that the Beattie Cabinet has of the Cabinet which considered the vast been very, very busy; my staff has been very, changes in police powers which were put very busy; the Police Service has been very, forward by then Minister Braddy as a result of very busy; and that we have a whole raft of the reviews that had taken place in the five improved police powers that will come into a years up to that point. Cabinet made decisions Police Powers and Responsibilities which were very much consistent with the Amendment Bill 2000 that will be introduced in changes that we saw the coalition Government the first half of this year to not only consolidate and the member for Crows Nest legislate in all the powers into one, which this Bill does, 1997. That legislation, as the member for but also to take the next major quantum leap Crows Nest has indicated, was supported by in terms of a whole raft of issues, some of the Labor Party at that time. which were spoken about by the member for 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 457

Toowoomba South. That legislation will relate the past two days several members have not just to DNA; it will relate to a whole range questioned why we did not have a round of of other improvements to powers that this consultation similar to what occurred in 1997. I Government has been working on during the want to stress—and, in part, repeat—that in short 20 months that it has been in 1997 the consultation about the consolidation Government. I am sure that that legislation will of all police powers into one Act, as well as also receive very solid support from this those new specific powers that were being Parliament when it is introduced. considered at that time, took place. However, I want to make comments about several and importantly, since then a police powers other areas. I note that today some members reference group has been set up—initially by talked about juveniles. I remind this Parliament the member for Crows Nest when he was the that, some 18 months ago, it was the Beattie Minister for Police and Corrective Services— Government that had to clarify the powers with chaired by a great Queenslander, Sir Bruce regard to the arrest of juveniles. Sadly, Watson. Every major stakeholding group in law occasionally slip-ups occur and, in relation to enforcement in Queensland—not just the that legislation, the coalition had slipped up. Government bodies such as the DPP, the This Government had to clarify the powers with Police Service and the CJC, but the Civil regard to the arrest of juveniles. Liberties Council and the Aboriginal Legal Service—has been part of this continuing A whole range of comments have been reference group to review the performance of made about the move-on powers. One of my the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act colleagues—I think it was the member for 1997 and, I repeat, the success of that Act. It Mulgrave—made comment about a feature has been successful. It was a good initiative— article in today's Courier-Mail by a Mr Paul a great initiative—and supported by the Labor Spooner of the Youth Advocacy Centre. Sadly, members when in Opposition. Mr Paul Spooner seems to be of the opinion That group has been consulting all the that move-on powers have just been discovered and that for the first time ever we way through. They have reviewed the are looking at them in terms of legislation in performance of the 1997 Act. As well, along this Parliament. The move-on powers were with the Police Service, that group has been certainly put into legislation via the 1997 Act. directly involved in the consolidation process in As part of the consolidation, we are certainly line with the public commitments that were rounding up all of the move-on provisions—the made when consultation took place back in move-on powers that apply currently to South 1997. Because that has happened, to go back Bank, to the city mall, to the Fortitude Valley out and have yet another round of public Mall—and putting them into one central place. forums and consultation would be an absolute However, rather than this Bill creating an overkill. Prior to that, the Parliamentary Criminal Justice Committee held public increase in police powers, if Mr Spooner would hearings on all of the CJC's reports and their like to look at the regulations and Acts relating own reports and, all the way through this 10- to those areas, he would find that, effectively, year period, public submissions were called for they contain move-on powers but without the by the CJC, the PCJC, the previous general safeguards that apply to police officers Government, this Government, and, exercising the existing move-on powers. So, importantly, the police powers reference group through this consolidation, we have fixed that chaired by Sir Bruce Watson. To say that there up. has been inadequate consultation on this Bill In any consolidation, there is a bit of give could have come only from people who really and take. We are rounding up move-on have not been part of the process and who powers, or similar powers, and putting them must have been asleep when the freight train into the one single piece of legislation. We are went through. also then applying those move-on powers to Of course, we have considered the major malls—not just the city mall here in Brisbane or changes that this Bill makes. We have the Fortitude Valley Mall or the mall over at amendments that put into place special South Bank, but malls generally throughout provisions for major events. I want to repeat regional cities of Queensland. I know that that what I said in my second-reading speech. I is an initiative of this Government that has must say that this is not about the State of been welcomed by the mayors and the Origin matches, test matches at the Gabba, citizens of those cities. Lions games at the Gabba or the Pura Milk I refer also—and this is very important—to Cup final at the Allan Border Field in the next this whole issue of consultation. Not only the few days; it is about significant events such as article by Mr Spooner questions this but also in the Olympic soccer games. 458 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

Mr Horan: Could be. terms, but we structured the spending of the Mr BARTON: It could be. Police Service this year to get it out at the cutting edge. Regional budgets were Mr Horan: Could be, depending on the increased by between 6% and 16%, with the circumstances. north coast budget increased by just over Mr BARTON: I will not say that it could be 16%. We made sure that budget funding for depending on the circumstances, but I want to police spending is where the police need stress that we have the Goodwill Games next it—out there on the job. year and we have CHOGM next year. If we Honourable members have said that they were to get the Rugby World Cup, then it want more police at their stations, in their certainly would be an event that would warrant regions and in their electorates. Believe me, so the use of these provisions. In line with its do I. But we have never in the history of this strong position of being tough on crime and of State had more police numbers than those having a tough but fair position on law and now coming through the system. The order, this Government is absolutely allocation of those police numbers is made by determined when we have major events that the service itself. I understand what the people will not be disadvantaged—whether it member for Mooloolah said. Sometimes the be the public of Queensland or whether it be model that we have for allocating police people who have come from overseas to resources throws up some strange figures and participate in the event. produces some strange outcomes. But that is A lot of individual issues have been the model that the service itself has raised. I would like to make a few comments. determined and that the senior management Sadly, we have strayed onto day-to-day of the service use to make sure everybody policing issues. I appreciate the desire of gets a fair go and their fair share of additional members to make particular comments about police. Sometimes people miss out when one policing in their areas. That is appropriate, but group graduates. We have another major it is not a specific part of this Bill. number of graduates coming through within I want to put to bed the myth that all of a the next month and a half. That results in a lot sudden there has been a whole range of more police on the beat and in the police budget cuts; that there are initiatives which act stations. So I find it a bit difficult to accept any to ensure that police cannot work overtime, criticism on that front. they cannot arrest people in the second half of The shadow Minister claimed that we cut shifts and they cannot call out specialist the number of recruits by 114. We did not cut squads. This allegation continues to be made. the number by 114 but, in determining how It is made in the media by some members on many recruits we needed to train this year, we the other side of the Chamber. It is made by had to ensure that we met the promises we some uninformed people. Every time this made. We will meet our promises on the allegation is made, I go back to the service number of graduates—the net increase in and trawl back through it, region by region, to police numbers—this year. But we do not train seek to find any evidence. To date, all of the more than we need to meet that number regions have assured me, as they have because that is a budget cost which we cannot assured the Police Commissioner, that such meet. The facts are that the attrition rate—the actions are not being taken. We cannot find separation rate as the Police Service refers to one single shred of evidence to support the it—of police resigning, retiring or leaving for allegation. I say very clearly to all members of other reasons is the lowest that it has been in this Parliament and to every member of the memory. If we have people staying, that says public: if anyone has any specific evidence something about the morale of the Police that that is occurring, send it to me because I Service. They want to stay in the service. If we want to know about it. If anybody in the Police continued to train at the numbers arrived at Service management is silly enough to be premised on a higher separation rate, as issuing those edicts, we will do something occurred under the coalition, we would not about it very quickly. have the facilities and the resources for all On the other hand, the Police budget was those additional numbers. As I have indicated increased by 4%. I know that the shadow to this Parliament before, the net increase of Minister has looked at his figures and police will be more than met, but we cannot appropriately he continues to ask questions, afford the budget costs of training more than particularly on notice, to seek further we need. information. But it is all there in the Budget I have some other comments that I want papers from last year. We did receive a 4% to go through. I appreciate the comments that increase. That is not a big increase in real have been made by the Opposition in 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 459 indicating that it will support this legislation. I additional rooms. I understand we do very appreciate that it will want to raise some issues good bed and breakfast deals for those on the clauses. That is appropriate. I also have people who would rather stay there than some amendments that I need to move. I elsewhere. should mention that some members of the Mr Horan: You wouldn't think so. They try City Country Alliance, particularly the member to get out. for Caboolture, drew on their experience as serving police officers in making their Mr BARTON: I gladly accept that contributions. That was taken on board. Also, interjection. Let me put it into context. We had in making their contributions other five people playing up yesterday. We had very Independent members drew from their good intelligence. The big difference between experience as local members or members of this Government and the previous coalition family of police officers. Government is that when our five played up they were still in cells. They did not go on a fun I should comment on the report of the run. They did not get picked up in a pub in Scrutiny of Legislation Committee. As was Melbourne. They did not get picked up in the pointed out I think by the member for five-star Sheraton Hotel in Noosa. They did not Indooroopilly, the Scrutiny of Legislation get picked up at Nimbin. They did not get Committee did not have its report finalised picked up in a brothel at Tweed Heads. They yesterday. He made the comment that this is a did not get picked up in Darwin after they had massive Bill. I think there are 371 pages and completed their fun run. That is the difference 390-odd clauses. There are also very detailed between this Government and the previous Explanatory Notes. I note that the Scrutiny of Government. We reacted to the intelligence Legislation Committee felt they could be more instead of saying, "That's interesting", and detailed. I guess it is all a question of filing it in a pigeon hole. I find it appalling that resourcing and style. In my view, the Scrutiny the shadow Minister thinks that the coalition's of Legislation Committee did very well to performance was better than ours. The reality respond in the time that it did. Its report was is that under our system they are still inside. tabled this morning. As happens under each Government, we were provided with a copy of In conclusion, I thank everybody who has its report last evening. I want to thank the supported me as Minister in the preparation of people in my team and the Police Service who this legislation. Certainly, as was mentioned by worked right through the middle of the night to the previous Minister, Inspector Greg Thomas the very early hours of this morning to be able has been involved in this process for 10 years. to respond. He addressed public hearings and meetings held by the second Parliamentary Criminal We have tabled our response. I dare say Justice Committee from 1992 to 1995. He was the report reflects most of my experience as a there when Mr Mackenroth was the Minister. Minister in the third Goss Government and He has been there through the whole process. again this time. I have not agreed with I dealt with him when in Opposition in 1997. I everything that the Scrutiny of Legislation thank him and also Senior Sergeant Peter Committee has put forward. But that is its role, Doyle, who are both here today. I thank my and it is a very appropriate role. I am sure that current senior policy adviser Julian Wagner, it will not agree with every response that I have made on this occasion, as it did not in the who was dragged out of bed in the middle of past. the night and worked through until some shocking time this morning. It is not easy being We have done our best to explain to this the senior policy adviser to the Police Minister. Parliament why we have taken the steps we have. In some cases when dealing with police I thank the rest of my team who powers, when dealing with specific contributed to this legislation, without naming circumstances—and this occurs with police them all. I thank also Louisa Pink, my previous powers and also with the significant events senior policy adviser, for the very important role legislation which is part of this Bill—there are she played in the 18 to 19 months she spent times when some fundamental principles of a in that position before family duties meant that pure world may need to be set aside. We are she had to step back into a quieter lifestyle. All talking about the security of people. We want of my team members have worked very hard to ensure that the majority of people are in getting this Bill up to the wire. looked after and that those who offend against I am sure that this will prove to be great society are capable of being dealt with by the legislation for the public of Queensland and will courts and, if necessary, locked up in that build on the work by my predecessors, large series of motels that I have around including the previous coalition Minister. I Queensland, to which I am continuing to build acknowledge the work that he did. Obviously, it 460 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 was good work; we supported it in Opposition. Parliaments that that is what this Parliament Within a couple of months, there will be further wanted. initiatives. Police powers in this State will Clause 10 is headed "Relationship to experience another quantum leap. We have other Acts" and states— released some of them already, and there are also some others in respect of which Cabinet "This Act does not affect the powers has made a decision and which have not been or responsibilities a police officer has released publicly. For example, comments under an Act included in Schedule 1." were made about DNA. The DNA legislation, A fairly lengthy comment is made about this in as described by the Police Commissioner, will the Alert Digest. Basically, what it comes down be the most significant event in policing since to is that the committee was concerned that fingerprints were taken for the first time. I am the Bill may displace provisions of other Acts sure that we will see some more quantum which limit or specify the way in which police leaps. may exercise their power in given I am sure I have not answered every circumstances. It also expressed particular specific question. I simply cannot answer in 30 concern about the apparent overriding by the minutes every specific question raised by Bill of relevant provisions of the Juvenile honourable members over many hours of Justice Act. Given that the Minister had some debate. Some of the questions that were work done on this last night and this morning, I raised will have been covered in our response ask the Minister for his comments on to the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee, which paragraph 27 and paragraph 28, which refers has been distributed. If honourable members to inconsistency. do not have a copy, there are certainly more Mr BARTON: We seem to have dealt with copies available from the attendants. We will two clauses at once. In relation to clause 9, also attempt to answer any questions as we clearly the shadow Minister is agreeing with deal with the clauses. I commend the Bill to me. The whole concept is about rounding up the House. all police powers into one Act of Parliament. If Motion agreed to. other Ministers suddenly put police powers into other Acts, we will again end up with a mishmash and this work over 10 years will Committee have been for nothing. Hon. T. A. BARTON (Waterford—ALP) In relation to inconsistencies with other (Minister for Police and Corrective Services) in Acts, my recollection is that the Scrutiny of charge of the Bill. Legislation Committee was concerned that we might be appearing to want to bind other Clauses 1 to 8, as read, agreed to. Ministers, this Parliament or even subsequent Clause 9— Parliaments on this issue. We acknowledge Mr HORAN (4.43 p.m.): I wish to deal with that we cannot do that. Parliament is its own clauses 9 and 10 together, because I intend to master. In relation to some of those speak only briefly to clause 9. In relation to the inconsistencies, we have left the police powers Alert Digest, I understand the difficulties in the Juvenile Justice Act untouched. I involved in getting it ready in such a short time. understand that the relevant Minister is I saw it for the first time today, unlike the conducting a review of the Juvenile Justice Minister, who was able to get his staff to have Act. It may well be that we will need to make a look at it late last night. That is not a some subsequent changes. However, to the complaint, but I wish to touch on some of the best of our ability, we want this Act to take issues raised in the Alert Digest. precedence over the others, and that is the intent of that provision. Firstly, in relation to clause 9 the Alert Digest raises the issue of inconsistency with Mr HORAN: At the outset, I said that I other Acts. The committee reiterated the was going to speak to clauses 9 and 10, which comments it made in 1997. I agree that there I think is in order. I asked the Minister to make should be a very strong message. I think all some comments in relation to paragraphs 27 honourable members who spoke to this Bill and 28 of the Alert Digest, which refer to an made it clear that we want the Police Service apparent overriding by the Bill of relevant to have one Act—if at all possible; I know there provisions of the Juvenile Justice Act. are some other Acts—that consolidates the Paragraph 28 states— major Acts under which police officers work "If it is intended to alter the regime and facilitates ease of operation. It is important that applies to instituting proceedings to leave a strong message for future against children, then the committee 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 461

recommends this should be clearly spelt which they use them so that the Police out by amending the Juvenile Justice Act Commissioner actually has final approval as to provisions"— whether or not a police officer acts as a public I know that is a different Act from this one— official for some other acts. The particular example I was given in the briefing was that, if "which are inconsistent with the provisions they wanted to use police as a stock inspector, of this bill." they would use someone from the Stock Mr BARTON: In my response to the Squad, if possible. I suppose I can see that Scrutiny of Legislation Committee, I said that I the Police Department itself does not want to am satisfied that the powers contained in the have other departments see it as an easy way Bill are adequately balanced by appropriate out to appoint a police officer here and there in safeguards. In many instances, the rural areas to undertake particular duties that safeguards were a neutral provision and were perhaps the department involved should be not found in the Act from which the provision providing. Can the Minister give the Chamber was taken. I could read this out, but I think it is an assurance that this is just making sure that contained in my response. Rather than the right police are used for particular positions wasting the time of the Parliament in reading and that they will not be unduly burdened with the response, I indicate that I have nothing things that other departments should be more to add to my response to the committee, doing? which has been tabled in the Parliament. Mr BARTON: That is certainly the case. Mr Horan: Has it been tabled? One of the issues that we have had in Mr BARTON: I have been assured that it consolidating police powers from those 90-plus has been tabled. I have certainly arranged for Acts is that over time many Ministers—and I 89 copies to be brought down here. I have probably been responsible for doing this understand that my letter of response to the myself when I was Minister for Environment chairperson of the Scrutiny of Legislation and Heritage—have included powers for police Committee has been tabled. The honourable in their legislation. In many cases, of course, member should appreciate that I did not those are powers that are not exercised by distribute these documents in the Chamber; I police in the normal day-to-day management have been a bit busy today. My understanding of the Police Service. A range of departments was that they were given to everyone who was certainly expressed concern that they would present. not be able to utilise police officers where Mr Sullivan: Mine was delivered to my necessary. I do not want to try to give every room. Maybe they were delivered to your "what if" because we would be here forever. It room. is a question of making sure that the service has some control over police being used in Mr HORAN: Mine was not. I have not got those areas. a copy. I would not mind a copy, because all I have is the Alert Digest that we got in this Where public official powers typically have morning's session. been delegated to police, that can still happen but within the overall control of the Police Mr Sullivan: Here is a copy. Service. In relation to the example that the Mr HORAN: Thank you. member opposite gave of a stock inspector, it The CHAIRMAN: Order! I suggest that the may well be that they might be able to be member gives the Minister that copy and that utilised there. One instance that was raised the Minister table it formally to satisfy with me was the mining officials' need for the everybody. He can then pass it back over to assistance of police from time to time and the member. whether or not they would still be able to get that assistance. They will still be able to get Mr BARTON: Again, I do not know what that assistance. It is just a question of the more I have to do but to have 89 copies made Police Service having some control over that and brought down here. But if they have not and not just having everyone directing police been distributed, I formally table it. willy-nilly and advising them that they have Clause 9, as read, agreed to. certain powers to act and wanting them to act Clause 10, as read, agreed to. in accordance with that. It is a uniform service; they need to be working under the general Clause 11— management of the Commissioner and the Mr HORAN (4.50 p.m.): This clause, as I senior management. understand it, is an endeavour to limit the number of times that other departments use Clause 11, as read, agreed to. members of the Police Service or the way in Clauses 12 to 18, as read, agreed to. 462 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000

Clause 19— Subclause (e) states that police may enter to Mr HORAN (4.54 p.m.): Clause 19 inspect security measures a person must provides a general power to enter to arrest or maintain under the relevant law. The detain someone or enforce a warrant. It is interesting thing to note in looking at this somewhat similar to the one that was in the clause is that it does not say at any stage "if previous Act. However, there are some slight the place contains a dwelling", which is the changes to the way it is set out. Previously, terminology that is used to describe police would have had to obtain a search someone's house. warrant. Subclause (2) deals with a dwelling. It There could be occasions when a states— business is operated in someone's house "... a police officer may enter the dwelling under a relevant law. I want to ask the Minister without the consent of the occupier to if subclause (e) refers at all to the Weapons arrest or detain a person only if the police Act, for example, in relation to the inspection officer reasonably suspects ..." of the storage facilities of someone who is licensed to have firearms. The way I look at it The term "reasonably suspects" is the term is that, because that person is not licensed to that was used in the previous Act, the 1997 run a business in the same way that a firearms Act, and it seems to have been used dealer would be licensed to run a business, it throughout this particular Bill. The point I am is separate. There is concern around the making is that what we are dealing with here is ridges at times because a lot of firearms entering someone's house and "reasonably owners feel that police can go into their house suspects" is not a strong term. If it was a term and check whether or not they have firearms such as "reasonable cause to suspect based stored correctly. My reading of this clause is on fact" or something like that, it would make it that it affects those firearms owners who have stronger. It is basically an absolute right of a licence to be collectors but not the ordinary entry. Can the Minister tell us the experience firearms owners. of the Police Service on how this has worked? Mr BARTON: That is my understanding. It Mr BARTON: The provision that the is designed to address weapons, dealers and member is referring to with regard to the collectors. These are not changes, because I "reasonably suspects" test is contained in the can assure the member that I am not silly 1997 Act, the existing Act. The only change enough to go and open up the whole gun that has been made in this Bill is with regard to debate again. These are a lift out of the subclause (3) which says that, if the place is a existing legislation. vehicle, a police officer may stop and detain the vehicle and enter it to arrest or detain the Clause 20, as read, agreed to. person. That is a clarification. At the moment, Clauses 21 and 22, as read, agreed to. police can arrest people, but they cannot Clause 23— necessarily stop the vehicle or enter the vehicle to arrest someone. So we end up with Mr HORAN (5 p.m.): This clause relates to a risk that the police cannot effectively use the the power to demand production of a licence, power. The only effective change to this etc., for weapons. Again, my concern relates provision is the addition of the provision that, if to making sure that this means that a police the place is a vehicle, then police may stop it, officer can require a person to produce a detain it and enter it to detain the person. I licence within 48 hours. My concern here is think that people would accept that police that—I think the Minister really answered it in have been doing that ever since there have the last question—there is no express authority been vehicles, but until now there probably for police to check the storage of firearms. has not been a specific statute; it has always That is catered for under the Weapons Act, been accepted as a common law right or which contains particular sections regarding practice for the police to do that. We have put searches. I want an assurance from the it into the statute. Minister that this does not cover that in any way. Clause 19, as read, agreed to. Mr BARTON: Again, I make the point that Clause 20— this is a lift straight out of the legislation. It is Mr HORAN (4.57 p.m.): Clause 20 deals the same as section 132 of the Weapons Act. with the power to enter to enforce relevant It is an existing provision. I can assure the laws. As I understand it, this basically covers shadow Minister and the Committee that the entering premises that are licensed for a police are not about to suddenly decide that particular business operation, such as they are going to have witch-hunts on pawnbrokers, firearms dealers and so forth. everybody's weapons, licence and how they 15 Mar 2000 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 463 store their weapons. We have better things to 'smoking'. do, frankly, unless there has been a specific At page 48, line 11, 'tobacco'— complaint. But it gives them the power and it is a power they have under section 132 of the omit, insert— Weapons Act. 'smoking'. Clause 23, as read, agreed to. At page 48, line 17, 'tobacco'— Clauses 24 to 31, as read, agreed to. omit, insert— Clause 32 - 'smoking'. Mr BARTON (5.01 p.m.) I move the At page 48, line 23, after 'Tobacco'— following amendment— insert— "At page 45, line 25, after 'and Other Smoking'. 'Tobacco'— At page 48, line 26, after 'Tobacco'— insert— insert— 'and Other Smoking'." 'and Other Smoking'. Amendment agreed to. At page 48, line 28— Clause 32, as amended, agreed to. omit, insert— Clause 33 - ' "smoking product" has the meaning Mr BARTON (5.02 p.m.): I move the given to it by the Tobacco and Other following amendment— Smoking Products'." "At page 46, line 10, after 'notice'— These amendments all essentially relate insert— to the same issue of amending reference to 'or an order under section 2361'. the consequences of changes made to the 1 Tobacco Products (Prevention of Supply to Section 236 (Court may order taking of Children) Act 1998 by the Health Legislation identifying particulars)." Amendment Act 1999. This was missed in the Mr HORAN: I ask the Minister: in relation original drafting, but I am assured by the to this or an order under section 236, a fair few parliamentary draftsman that it is a technical of these have been put on the table today. amendment. What is that order under section 236? Amendments agreed to. Mr Barton: What is the question the member is asking me? Clause 35, as amended, agreed to. Mr HORAN: What is the order? It says "or Clauses 36 to 39, as read, agreed to. an order under section 236". Can the Minister Clause 40— explain that to me? Mr HORAN (5.04 p.m.): I move the Mr BARTON: Clause 33 describes the following amendment— circumstances when a police officer may "At page 51, after line 13— require a person's name and address and, more importantly, evidence of the person's insert— identity. One of the circumstances relates to '(1A) If the government entity or local when a police officer is about to take a government reasonably believes the need person's identifying particulars under an for the declaration is urgent, the identifying particulars notice. The amendment government entity or local government will allow a police officer to make such a may apply to a magistrate or a justice of requirement when a person attends a police the peace (magistrates court) for an station under an order made by a court. interim declaration of a stated area as a Amendment agreed to. notified area. Clause 33, as amended, agreed to. '(1B) An interim declaration of a notified area has effect until— Clause 34, as read, agreed to. (a) a regulation declares the area to be Clause 35— a notified area under section 41; or Mr BARTON (5.03 p.m.): I move the (b) a magistrate disallows the order on following amendments— the Minister's application.'." "At page 48, line 8, 'tobacco'— I gave some notice that I would move this omit, insert— amendment during my speech in the second- 464 Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill 15 Mar 2000 reading debate. Basically, this amendment That is why I have moved this deals with the way in which local governments amendment. It would be a very important can make application for a notified area where addition to the process of notification. It gives the police can use move-on powers. The the councils the opportunity to do something police have automatic move-on powers once as a matter of urgency. It also provides the this Bill is passed. Under the current Act, they balance in that it only lasts for a short time or have those powers in a number of areas, and until a magistrate disallows it on application by many members have spoken about the Minister. them—child-care centres, schools, ATMs, retail Mr BARTON: Certainly I have some centres, licensing areas, railway stations. This difficulty accepting the amendment as moved legislation will introduce that power to malls. by the member for Toowoomba South. I do I moved this amendment because I am understand why he has moved it, but I think concerned that there are some cases where we need to look at it in the context of the urgency develops in that a local government existing legislation, which is replicated in this needs to get a notified move-on area in place Bill. in great haste. It does take some time. I fully The move-on powers have been one of approve of the way in which it happens at the the successes of the 1997 legislation. We are moment, although it is having some teething not seeing complaints against police, as many problems because it is new. I fully agree with of us feared there might have been. They are the normal process of councils consulting with just not coming through my office at all and I the community in general and the police and am sure there are very few, if any, being made the order then being put to the Minister and to police themselves in the normal course of the Minister finally giving approval or otherwise events. through the Governor in Council. What we have for notified areas—they are I am convinced that there are times when apart from the areas that are specifically spelt a local government needs to have an area out for which move-on powers exist all the declared a notified area as a matter of time—is a provision that a regulation could be urgency. This amendment would enable a made to provide for councils or other council to go to a magistrate or a Justice of the Government bodies to apply to the Minister for Peace (Magistrates Court) for an interim a notified area. It took some time to get the declaration. That declaration has effect until regulation in place. It was not in place when I the regulation is declared for the area under became the Minister. In fact, there was some the normal process or a magistrate disallows difficulty in getting agreement between all of the order on application from the Minister. I the major stakeholders. have seen the need for this amendment with I am not wanting to be critical, but many particular disturbances in Toowoomba. In that councils took the view that they just wanted situation, it would have been a very useful tool. this power to be there but they did not want to I know that the police were able to use, to be involved. The regulation as promulgated some extent, other ways and means to try to last year does put responsibility back on the alleviate the problem. The incidents I refer to councils to consult with business traders, to involved a group of about 20 people. The consult with the community, to meet some council would have liked to have been able to guidelines that are applied in the regulation act as a matter of urgency. and to apply to me. No applications have actually made it to my desk. Some councils This amendment would give the move-on have approached me by way of their mayors powers the strength and the timeliness they to essentially say, "This whole consultation need. I take note of some of the comments process is proving a bit difficult." made today by youth groups. We have to respect those comments. I do not think any From my perspective, I would rather see council would want a vexatious notification that the regulation under the existing provisions would see young people moved on given a fair chance to work. I would certainly unnecessarily. We have to take consideration give the member for Toowoomba South and of the young people, the families and the older shadow Minister an undertaking that if they people who want to enjoy the amenities of a prove to be too difficult I would review that city and who do not want to be bumped and regulation again. It is, after all, a regulation shoved on the footpath, do not want their that is in my hands and I am the relevant coffee spat on and do not want their shops person. trashed. We need this situation for the young My view—and it is the view of the Police and old to be able to enjoy their city's Service—is that if this amendment were to be amenities. carried by the Parliament it would take things 15 Mar 2000 Bundamba and Woodridge By-elections 465 out of the hands of the Minister. It would make the barricades and divide on this amendment. the Minister almost a review person. I would I do think this is something we have to watch have to continually go back and look at quite carefully. decisions by individual magistrates. It would The council in Toowoomba had a serious tend the cut the service directly out of the problem. It involved having to have public process. Both the service and I believe that it meetings and meetings with the police. A is better for that process to be gone through. great deal of cooperation came about through That is, the council consults with its business that process. The council saw that this was a traders and with its local authority and then chance for some sort of empowerment of the makes an application that is considered by the council, if you like, to deal with this serious police. After the police have considered it, they problem. It was a very localised issue that make a recommendation to me. If I am councillors were copping a lot of flak about. prepared to sign off, I make a Through the work of the police, to some recommendation to the Governor in Council. extent, the troublemakers were moved to If there were to be emergent another part of the town. A couple of weeks circumstances, they would typically be in an ago there was a big public meeting in that area where police would be responding or area because the troublemakers have moved reacting to those emergent circumstances in on to another patch. That is another story. I other ways. We need not be worried about thank the Minister for his assurances. I am people who get into an environment where prepared to give it a go. they are pushing and shoving and breaking Amendment negatived. things, because they are then committing other offences. Clause 40, as read, agreed to. The move-on powers are designed to be Clauses 41 to 61, as read, agreed to. a keep the peace provision. Move-on powers Progress reported. are not new. Move-on powers have been part of a constable's right to keep the peace for as long as we have had police constables. It was BUNDAMBA AND WOODRIDGE BY- only in 1997 that they were formally put into a ELECTIONS statute. It is our belief that, if councils are Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH (Chatsworth— saying they have some emergent situation ALP) (Leader of the House) (5.17 p.m.), by arising, we could cover that under existing leave: I move— powers. If we are talking about move-on powers, that is, the right to have police move "That the House take note of the people on where they are not committing any election of the members for Bundamba other offence at all, then we should not do that and Woodridge." lightly. Mrs MILLER (Bundamba—ALP) I do support the move-on powers very (5.17 p.m.): I second the motion. Mr Speaker, strongly. They are not a problem at this point. as member for Bundamba I would like to thank While I think the article in the Courier-Mail the people of Bundamba for their faith in me today is quite wrong—I will be responding to to represent them. I acknowledge the love and the newspaper in that manner—we have to be commitment of my family: Neil, Stephanie and sensitive to the fact that the provisions have Brianna, Mum and Dad, David and Karen, been there for several years now but that the Uncle George and Auntie Kay, my in-laws and capacity to declare a notified area is still very my extended family, including the Kitching, new. It has not been given a chance to Miller and Pringle clans. I acknowledge the operate. I would like to see it given a chance support of the community groups and to operate, but I repeat my commitment that if churches of Bundamba and of the Australian experience shows that it is not operating Labor Party branches and members who successfully I would be prepared to review that worked tirelessly on the campaign. regulation and review the proposal that has I particularly thank those on the campaign been put forward by the shadow Minister. team: Linda Holliday, the assistant State Mr HORAN: I thank the Minister for his secretary of the party; Peter Allen from the assurances. I note from some media clippings Missoes; Luke Forsythe; Gus Doung; and that the Gold Coast City Council is looking at Chris, Mitch, John, Michelle, Allan, Greg, Mike, notified areas in a couple of places. I take the Victor, Daryl, Conrad, Steve Axe, Michael point the Minister makes that this is a new Bertram, and many other branch members. process and that some time needs to pass for The trade unions provided great assistance, us to see how it works. I certainly will not go to particularly the CFMEU and Wally Trehear, the 466 Bundamba and Woodridge By-elections 15 Mar 2000

Missoes, my union, and the Queensland However, if Governments get the policy Nurses Union. and implementation wrong, then not only does I pay tribute to the previous members for the community suffer, but the reality is that it Bundamba, Bob Gibbs and Evan Marginson, costs the Government money—a lot of money. and also to the former member for Oxley, Bill If, for example, the poker machine impact in Hayden, and his wife, Dallas. Evan Marginson the community were underestimated, it costs introduced me to the Labor Party when I the Government in terms of family and joined the Dinmore Riverview branch at the individual support and counselling; in terms of age of 13. I was in awe of him and Bill welfare handouts; it costs in terms of Hayden. Bill Hayden has been a great mentor emergency housing if a family loses their to me over the years and I thank him for his home; and it costs in terms of family advice and support and his unshakeable belief breakdowns with legal aid and Family Court that I could, as a community Labor candidate, actions. It can also cost in terms of extra police win the seat for Labor. resources as some may turn to crime to meet commitments. Others who encouraged me over many years but who have passed away include Brian The poker machine industry is having an and Bubby Plunkett and Cecil Peck. My impact in the Bundamba electorate, grandmothers, Gramps Kitching and Cindy particularly around Goodna and Gailes where Pringle, miners' wives who struggled all their there are numerous clubs and hotels. I am lives and who had enormous influence over against any further expansion of poker me as family matriarchs, would have been machines in this area as too often community rejoicing amongst the angels in heaven. groups, churches and welfare organisations report the negative impact on families from The level of support I was able to achieve poker machine addicted parents. was, I believe, due to the fact that I have worked in the community for a long period of Whilst Governments over the years have time, that I am a fifth generation local and that put in place economic impact statements, I am well known in the community for helping environmental impact statements and social people from all walks of life. impact statements, it is my view that in the In Bundamba there are four main year 2000 community impact statements groups—the have everythings, the haves, the should be a part of this process. The previous impact statements are, usually by their very have-nots, and the have absolutely nothings. nature, macro in context, giving a broad-brush In many ways, I have concentrated my effort, approach to changes in the way Governments and the efforts of the community groups I work think and make decisions. However, it is the with, in the last three categories. Areas that I community and indeed the family unit, the have a particular interest in are employment, fundamental basis of our society, that often youth and adult homelessness, the drug and gambling problem, housing issues, transport, bears the brunt of Government policy gone architecture, urban redevelopment, crime wrong. I cite again the proliferation of poker prevention and education. machines in the community as a classic example of family breakdown, of poverty, of These issues need Government at all homelessness and of desperation. levels to work together with the community of Bundamba to implement innovative solutions Community impact statements should by for the benefit of our people. It is my view that their very nature incorporate the impact of Government policy, without community input, various policy outcomes on the family unit, has a mediocre chance of resolving issues. however defined. They should examine the Indeed, the best solutions are where the different family units, including single solutions are found in the community, by the households, the nuclear family, single parent community and owned by the community and families, and especially the families the community then consults the Government increasingly looking after elderly relatives and for its assistance in policy and funding matters. elderly people living alone. These statements I am proud to be a part of the Beattie Labor should be given equal status to the economic, Government that prides itself on this environmental and social impact statements in philosophy. The Community Cabinet meetings any decision on Government policy and held in the Ipswich and Bundamba electorates ultimately in the implementation of that policy have been supported strongly by our by Public Service departments. community. Direct access often results in direct Community impact statements should action, and I know that in many cases in assess the intended and unintended Bundamba our people have been grateful for consequences of Government policies and the Community Cabinet process. programs on family stability, family 15 Mar 2000 Bundamba and Woodridge By-elections 467 relationships and family responsibilities. Unemployment in the Bundamba Government departments should consider electorate has been significantly reduced adopting proposals that strengthen the family during the term of the Beattie Government, unit through community impact statements. with the last unemployment figures showing Some departments are already implementing unemployment in Ipswich East—which takes in Government policy at the community level in most of the electorate—down to 9.1%, which partnership with the local community. The compares to 12.5% a year ago. Whilst this has Queensland Police Service is a leader in this been an excellent achievement, the current area with more and more community police rate of unemployment in Bundamba is still too beats, such as Riverview, with police high and I will be pursuing a range of initiatives shopfronts such as Redbank Plaza, and with to see that further jobs and training police in local high schools, such as Redbank opportunities are provided for people in the Plains State High School. Bundamba electorate. These initiatives should be encouraged, The Government's Breaking the as the community wants police to be local and Unemployment Cycle programs have been accessible. They do not necessarily want multi- very successful in tackling unemployment and million dollar police precincts towering over the I would like to see the continuation of this community and not being part of that initiative that has provided apprenticeships, community. They want to know that a "copper" traineeships and other jobs in the electorate. is in their locality and working for them, working In the coming months I will be contacting with them, and to protect them. Similarly, it is businesses in the electorate to brief them on my view that community courts should be the assistance measures that are available to examined as a real option in the justice system enable them to employ additional apprentices in Queensland. If a person is charged with and trainees. minor offences, it makes no sense to send him The Community Jobs Plan that provides to a court often miles away if he intends to funding to community organisations to employ plead guilty to the charges. Following the local job seekers and develop projects that police initiative of local police beats, I believe benefit the community should be continued. that local community courts could be set up, The work that is being done in rehabilitating administered by a part-time registrar, and the the old Westfalen Mine at Redbank is a fine judicial duties handled by a duly qualified example of what Government and the Justice of the Peace (Magistrates Court). community can do to create jobs and develop facilities that benefit local people. I will be These community courts do not need to working to ensure that further job opportunities cost a lot of money to establish. An ordinary such as those being created at the Westfalen house could be modified as a community project are secured for the people of court, Justices of the Peace (Magistrates Bundamba. Court) could be used in a voluntary capacity as has been done for over 100 years throughout The Bremer Institute of TAFE plays an important role in Bundamba, developing the Queensland, and justice could be quickly and skills of our young people that are so important easily dispensed. It would save time and money in terms of building new court buildings for their future careers and job prospects. I and result in a real community-based justice would like to see the excellent work of the system. Bremer TAFE expanded with additional strategies put in place to reach out to the Many in the community feel alienated by people in the electorate who currently are not the justice system. Apart from lawyers and accessing this valuable community resource. I police officers, these days only high school am particularly keen to see additional legal studies students seem to have any strategies that enable women and the many understanding of the judicial system unless people of a non-English speaking background they have had the experience of going in the electorate to access training and skills through the court process. Community courts development opportunities through Bremer would harness the many Justices of the Peace TAFE. (Qualified) allowing them, by a rigorous In recent weeks we have seen a number selection process, to upgrade to Justice of the of major firms in Queensland—including the Peace (Magistrates Court) and sit on the electorate of Bundamba—retrenching skilled bench. Whilst further policy analysis would workers. There is, I believe, a real and genuine need to be undertaken in this area, I am sure unrest in the community about these that many Justices of the Peace (Qualified) in retrenchments and justifiable calls to protect the community would welcome this concept. local jobs. I am pleased to see that the Beattie 468 Bundamba and Woodridge By-elections 15 Mar 2000

Labor Government has brought in local I am hopeful, however, that the drugs content policies to help businesses get court trial in Ipswich will break the cycle of drug opportunities from major Government projects. addiction and drug-related crime. This This initiative should be expanded to ensure legislation is important as it means that drug- that local job seekers and unemployed people addicted offenders facing a jail sentence can are able to access the jobs created on these instead be diverted into intensive rehabilitation projects. I would also like the Government to programs. I will be closely watching the Ipswich explore avenues that would facilitate significant drugs court and looking forward to positive private sector projects also incorporating local results in the wider Ipswich community. content and local labour provisions. We must There are many Department of Housing ensure that local communities obtain the homes in the electorate of Bundamba. There maximum benefit from major public sector and are significant levels of private rentals, yet private sector projects. there is still a high proportion of people who A couple of years ago in Goodna, the either own their own homes or are in the community was concerned at the increasing process of paying them off to provide a future drug trade, particularly in heroin. It is still a for themselves and their families. The problem, but the community and the Department of Housing has, since the early Government in a partnership called the 1990s, led the way in our area through the Goodna Outreach Project has made highly successful urban renewal process in substantial progress in addressing these Riverview. The department has officers working issues. Three community organisations, The with community reference groups to enhance Base, the Goodna Youth Accommodation these suburbs. Homes built 30 years ago as Service and the Peace Centre, all work basic, box-style houses are being opened up together to work with adults and youth to with decks, new kitchens are being built, respond to the drugs issue. laundries are being renovated and bathrooms are modernised. Fences to allow for family However, the drugs problem is not just a privacy are an integral part of this urban youth problem. There are plenty of middle- redevelopment and limited landscaping aged people out there who have brought up encourages tenants to take pride in their another generation of drug users. Some of surroundings. This great initiative of the Goss them are responsible, some are not, but it is and Beattie Labor Governments has now difficult to tell young people that they should been extended to Goodna and the tenants not be using drugs when they see mum and are delighted. dad, and sometimes their grandparents, using drugs. They see it as a normal part of But the Government is not only assisting everyday life. To them, it is as normal as dad tenants. The amendments to the housing having a beer after work, only dad smokes legislation to provide for a better loans scheme dope. to allow low-income families to borrow money to purchase a house are also very important. I am keenly interested in the drug The Department of Housing provided Neil and initiatives in New South Wales and the I with our first housing loan. When the bank proposed impact on the community, but I am refused our housing loan application, we a long way from being convinced that shooting thought we were out of the race in providing a galleries are an answer to the drugs issue. I roof over our heads. We applied to the would want to see clear evidence of their Department of Housing for a loan and went on success before I would support shooting the waitlist for several months. When the bank galleries in Bundamba, and I know that the said "No", the Department of Housing said community of Bundamba think similarly on this "Yes", and we were on our way. issue. Community renewal projects, combined I cannot pretend to have solutions to the with urban renewal programs in suburbs, lift epidemic of drug use in our community. The the community spirit, create pride in the area Goodna Outreach Project is working well. and, combined with employment programs, People know where to go to get help, they apprenticeship and trainee opportunities, have know that they will not be judged by the a beneficial social, economic and community outreach workers, and they know that impact. You can not only see the difference rehabilitation is offered. Perhaps the key is to but you can feel it. The Department of Housing educate our community members before they and the Department of Employment, Training have tried the hard drugs like heroin and have and Industrial Relations need to work more TV campaigns similar to road carnage ads on closely together in these areas, however, to the effects of drugs. ensure maximum benefits in the community. 15 Mar 2000 Bundamba and Woodridge By-elections 469

Combined with these programs is the Government side, there are all the new breed tenancy management of the Department of of members: young, vibrant, enthusiastic Housing. Much of the goodwill in the members of Parliament. On the other side, Bundamba community has been as a direct there are the old breed of members: the worn result of its tough tenancy management out, ossified timber of National and Liberal policies. It is not every person's right to a Party politics. As the member for Bundamba, I department house if they cannot pay the rent, am proud to be the 100th Labor woman look after the house and be a good neighbour. elected to an Australian Parliament. I am I wholeheartedly agree with the Minister's proud to be a fifth-generation local and a tough tenancy policies. Our tenants have a coalminer's daughter and grand-daughter. I will great pride in their community. They know the represent the people of Bundamba with gusto, rules and abide by them. with every breath in my body, to ensure that As a former public servant, the key to any our people get a fair go, that our people are Government's success or failure is in the considered in the processes of government, service delivery of Government programs. Too that our children can aspire to and achieve often a great idea gets lost in the wording of their goals, that we have a community tolerant the Bills, is inappropriately resourced and may of each other, and a better quality of life. lack the commitment of the public servants Government members: Hear, hear! charged with the delivery of the program. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable Public servants are, by and large, a dedicated member for Woodridge. group of people in our community who work hard to serve the Government of the day and Mr KAISER (Woodridge—ALP) the people of Queensland. Many work long, (5.36 p.m.): Thank you, Mr Speaker. While I hard hours and are committed to the programs cannot be certain what portent making my first they are delivering, particularly those in the speech on the ides of March holds for me Bundamba electorate. However, more can be personally, can I say that for the people of done to improve the efficiency and Woodridge it heralds a fresh start and new effectiveness of the Public Service. It is my representation for them in this Parliament. I view that there should be more lateral begin by thanking them for their faith in me. recruitment into the Public Service and there In the 5 February by-election, the people should be more cross-departmental of Woodridge were encouraged by all of those recruitment strategies. opposite to cast their vote in a negative Over the last 10 years, the Public Service way—for retribution. Instead, a majority has changed remarkably. There have been decided to cast a positive vote for the future. It very many public servants put out to pasture is my privilege to represent such decent by forced retrenchments, voluntary people in this Parliament. When I needed retrenchment, early retirements, resignations them, when the Labor Party needed them, and officers moving into the private sector. I they were there for us. It is now up to us on was on the famous coalition hit list. My sin was this side of the House to be there for them. that I was Labor and that I had to go. Well, I In an Australian society divided into haves was on the hit list. I am proud to be Labor, and and have-nots, the people of Woodridge are here I am. I have hit back. And let me tell you the have-nots. In our society today, too many that I intend to be here for a very long time people increasingly work too many hours while and I will be doing everything in my power to others in Woodridge cannot find work at all, or ensure that the Opposition never, ever returns find work for too few hours to support their to the Treasury benches in Queensland. After families. While we here all take for granted the the way I was treated in the Department of fact that we can email around the planet in Justice before being put out into the spelling seconds, in Woodridge some people fear yard, I can assure you that I do not want the walking down the street. Recently, one family wanton vindictive behaviour bestowed upon spent $10m on a wedding, while nightly in me to be put upon any other public servant in Woodridge children sleep homeless in the Queensland. It was morally and ethically wrong streets. After 1 July, those with huge executive and no Government of whatever political party salaries can look forward to a handsome tax they belong to should sanction such cut; the battlers of Woodridge can look forward behaviour. to having their spending power further eroded People like Barry Dittmer and others by the GST. encouraged me to move into the political The battlers of Woodridge live daily with arena. I took their advice, and here I am the demoralising paradox of a growing today. And the real delight is standing here economy which is leaving them behind. looking around the Parliament. On the Woodridge, after all, has the second highest 470 Bundamba and Woodridge By-elections 15 Mar 2000 level of unemployment in Queensland and with reconciliation with indigenous people and one of the lowest levels of income. Yes, there tolerance of other cultures. is much people in Woodridge have not. But Those who voted One Nation in what they do have, they have in abundance: Woodridge are ordinary battlers who sent a mateship in times of adversity, a courageous wake-up call to all politicians. It is a wake-up battling spirit, and an inspirational sense of call the Beattie Labor Government is community pride much stronger than wealthier answering, and it is a wake-up call I will communities can muster. remember whilst ever I represent this I recently spoke with students from community. It gave me great heart on 5 Woodridge High who travelled to America February to see One Nation's offspring achieve where they did us all proud in an international less than 2% of the vote. The people of thinking competition, having won the national Woodridge have wisely judged that the party competition. They told me that what they liked that seemed to so clearly articulate their best about the States was that they continued problems in fact has none of the answers. But to be treated with respect even after people we should not assume that the threat posed found out they came from Woodridge. The by One Nation to our political system has people of Woodridge do not deserve the passed simply because it has disintegrated. reputation they have been given. They are The success of Austria's Freedom Party, until hardworking, decent people who deserve a fair recently led by Jorg Haider, is clear proof that go. the threat of ultra-Right parties has not been In the recent by-election campaign there buried by history. was much said by those opposite about In 1950 my parents migrated to Australia neglect in Woodridge. The Liberals and from a continent savaged by a political Nationals would know all about it. The whole movement based on simplistic slogans and historical development of Woodridge is scapegoating minorities. Like One Nation, testament to their neglect of working people. European Nazism was at first dismissed as an Conservative State Governments in the 1950s aberration. It was tolerated; it was appeased. I and 1960s irresponsibly chose to develop a am not for one moment suggesting the massive Housing Commission suburb at circumstances that led to World War II would Woodridge. Academic Doug Tucker says they recur in Australia this century, but it would be did so to avoid the stringent development grossly negligent of us to allow the seeds of requirements of the Brisbane City Council. The discontent to germinate in our society to that then Albert Shire, under the chairmanship of extent. none other than good old Russ Hinze, required An analysis by Rex Davis and Robert only minimum standards. So the suburb was Stimson indicates that the One Nation vote in developed with lightly sealed roads, minimal 1998 was highly locationally specific. It peaked stormwater drainage and completely in urban fringe areas like Woodridge. We hear inadequate State services. a lot about the struggle of rural folk, and inner During this period, my parents, lured by city areas have also come in for special policy cheap land prices, chose Woodridge to raise attention. But surely, if the 1998 One Nation their family. I can still recall shopping on vote accurately maps political discontent, then Station Road and Wembley Road as a dirt the time has come to focus on the urban track that ambled past the Half Moon Lagoon. fringe where the pain of economic change is Now Wembley Road is the main street of an all too evident. underserviced urban fringe city, and the How do we meet the challenge of Station Road precinct is in desperate need of providing a fair go for urban fringe dwellers renewal. currently dispossessed of security and The pain of the legacy of neglect by the opportunity? How do we ensure they are able conservatives is still being endured by the to achieve their best and provide for their people of Woodridge today. Their anger at families? While I am in this Parliament I will that neglect and their disillusionment with all devote my efforts to finding answers to these politicians manifested itself in a 31% vote for questions. My work will be guided by three the One Nation Party in the 1998 State policy principles: firstly, the legitimate role of election. But this was no "redneck backlash". Government intervention where markets fail; My local community is harmonious by world secondly, the importance of State Government standards, even though it is made up of over in creating opportunity; and, thirdly, the need 100 nationalities—clear proof that the great to respond to globalisation by fostering a new working class ideal of a fair go is compatible economy. 15 Mar 2000 Bundamba and Woodridge By-elections 471

The first thing we must do is accept the is undoubtedly better than locking up more role of Government in managing change criminals. But make no mistake: crime hits where markets fail to take into account the battlers the hardest. That is why we in the community's interests. If sceptical economic Labor Party are also being tough on criminals. theoreticians want to find evidence of market The fact is that incarceration is also a failure, they need look no further than legitimate form of crime prevention. There is Woodridge. I see little evidence of Adam always an element in society who will Smith's invisible hand at work. consciously choose a life of crime, not I believe that, if people are given opportunities because they lack opportunity but because in life, they should be expected to take them. I they believe it is easier than hard work and believe in individual responsibility and reward showing respect. for hard work. But I also believe that individuals Some argue that criminals, particularly achieve more when they are part of a caring young offenders, are just misunderstood. Try community in which Government is prepared telling that to my Neighbourhood Watch to help those who are doing their best. meetings as they discuss the cost and The conservatives say they should wait for personal anguish caused by vandalism and the trickle-down effect. In Woodridge, graffiti. Evidence from around the world shows someone turned the trickle off. In this debate, that the supposedly innocent crime of graffiti the old dividing lines between Left and Right encourages more serious crime by creating the are no longer valid, if they ever were. The impression that an area is tolerant of criminal debate is not about high taxes on one side activity. It needs to be addressed, and I fail to and low taxes on the other. After all, the see what civil liberty is breached by banning conservatives went to the last Federal election the sale of paint spray cans to minors. with the high tax policy. The debate is about The second principle in addressing issues the fairness of taxes. The debate is not about of disadvantage in the urban fringe is to grasp big Government versus small Government or the unique opportunity given to States in our that the Right believes in the market and the Federation. It may be largely the role of the Left does not. It is about Labor's commitment Commonwealth to ensure the equal to industry policy and investment in education distribution of economic wealth through versus the conservative's laissez-faire income and taxation policy, but State approach. Governments have a huge role to play when This Government's urban and community addressing the specific issues that deny my renewal program provides an excellent model constituents their opportunity to reach their full for Government intervention at a local level. It potential. is not just about giving public housing a On 1 January next year we will celebrate facelift. It is about focusing all of Government the centenary of our Federation. The task action to help remove the layers of given to the States by our forebears who wrote disadvantage my constituents experience. It is the Constitution 100 years ago is as relevant not a quick fix, and the Government must be today as it was then. States are close enough prepared to back long-term solutions with long- to the community to listen and understand. term funding. States are big enough to allow for the efficient This Government's model of community delivery of services while small enough to renewal recognises that Government does not ensure those services are delivered effectively, have all the answers. It gives local people a fairly and flexibly. genuine opportunity to trial community based Of course there are issues in our evolving solutions to problems like crime and Federation which must be considered. Sources unemployment. I am proud of the work this of State revenue and the duplication of Government is doing in the area of youth services should be seriously addressed. But, unemployment, particularly its efforts to make despite these outstanding issues, I have apprenticeships fashionable again. But, while always believed that State politics is where it is focusing our efforts on the young, we must at in terms of delivering on the great Australian never lose sight of the tragedy of middle-aged Labor Party ideal of a fair go for all. That is why unemployment. The pain of retrenchment for my ambition has always been to make a those who have a history of employment is no contribution to my community at this level of duller than that of a school leaver who cannot Government. find work. At this level of Government we have the I also support the Beattie Government's chance to create a fair industrial relations attack on the causes of crime through the system that can underpin job security. We are community renewal program. Crime prevention ideally placed to provide economic 472 Bundamba and Woodridge By-elections 15 Mar 2000 infrastructure when markets fail to do so. We kids I am talking about. Surely a caring can give people of all ages the chance to learn community must do better than that. Surely new skills. We are best placed to ensure early intervention should apply to give these adequate public transport. We deliver justice kids an alternative schooling option. Without it, and secure the personal safety of our citizens. what chance do they have to reach their full We have the tools to treat their illnesses in our potential? free hospital system, and we have the power I have spoken of the need for to protect their environment. Governments, particularly State Governments, We in this place should ignore those who to deal with the negative impacts of debate our worth as a tier of Government and globalisation. The third principle in addressing simply get on with the job. There is perhaps no disadvantage is to accept the inevitability of better example of an area where States can globalisation, embrace its opportunities and create opportunity than in education. I was the ensure that our citizens have the chance to first person in my family to go to university, benefit from the emergence of the global because I was educated after Gough Whitlam economy. Technological innovation and made universities free. I have experienced the information are driving a new economic way in which education lifts a person's horizon, system. There is a danger that those, like my creates ambition and opens the door to a rich constituents who are already missing out, will and rewarding life. It is the single best be even further left behind in this new investment in opportunity any government can economy. The risk is that the poor will be make. become information poor as well. I would encourage the Government to The new economy demands the creation continue down the path of increasing needs of a new learning class through policies which based funding to our schools. The truth is that encourage people of all ages to retrain and the children who attend schools in my learn new skills. We must expand access to electorate do not have the same opportunity the Internet and to information. Whether to achieve their full potential as those who publicly or privately funded, we must factor in attend Ascot State School. At least part of the the need to provide the information reason is funding. Years ago we recognised infrastructure so crucial to the emergence of that it was necessary to fund non-Government the new economy. Are we ready to accept schools on the basis of need. Why not State that, when it comes to the future success of schools? Whether it is the school maintenance our State in the world, the information budget or the staff allocation, needy schools superhighway is at least as important as the need more. Gold Coast Highway? I also intend taking a keen interest in Whatever I have achieved in life has been policies which make an investment in our with the help of others and with sacrifice on the children through early intervention, such as this part of many. No-one's sacrifice has been Government's positive parenting program. greater than that of my wife, Maree. She has These are the sorts of policies that will not bear given up the opportunity of a more normal fruit for a generation. Early intervention is a family life to allow me to pursue my love of long-term strategy, but it is essential if we are politics as a means to a better world. Without going to address the underlying causes of so her faith in me I simply would not be standing many of society's ills rather than provide here today. I would by now have been claimed bandaid solutions. Government cannot solve by one of the many political setbacks we have all problems, particularly the problem of kids faced together. I love her very much. I love her being raised in dysfunctional families, but there for her understanding, her support and most is more we can do. particularly for being a great mum to our I recently met with a local primary school children—Joseph, Lucy and Jack. Regardless principal who described the "Woodridge of what else I might achieve, I know that my shuffle" to me. The "Woodridge shuffle" children are the most important legacy I leave. happens when a kid with real learning I see in their young faces the reasons I am difficulties and behavioural problems is involved in politics at all. I would also like to repeatedly expelled from local schools thank Maree's mum, Margaret Ingham, for all because teachers and resources cannot cope of her very practical support, including looking with their inability to fit in. These kids are after the kids at sometimes extremely short eventually expelled from the State school notice. system and more often than not descend into I dedicated my recent campaign to the a life of crime and drugs or, worse still, end up memory of my father, George, who died in dead in a local park. These are primary school 1981. My mother, Inge, who is with us in the 15 Mar 2000 Life Education Centres 473 gallery today, and my father were working crusades". Since that time we have kept our people who came to this country with nothing integrity as a battler's party. The Labor Party is but their dreams for a better life and their love more than a political institution in this country. for one another. Labor supporters, but not It is a passionate force for equality. It is a force members of the party, they taught me practical which changes people's lives. Through its lessons in politics. They instilled in me the policies this kid from Woodridge is doing things great working class values of hard work, that he never dreamt were possible. And now I integrity and looking up to people others look want nothing less for the people of Woodridge down on. My parents endured long periods than the opportunities that I have been given. apart because dad always went wherever the Motion agreed to. work was. I can still remember my mother arriving home night after night for 18 years at midnight, exhausted after doing shift work at a LIFE EDUCATION CENTRES factory. Along with my father, she was Mr QUINN (Merrimac—LP) (Deputy determined that, as a kid, I would never know Leader of the Liberal Party) (5.54 p.m.): I how tough things really were. I love them both. move— My older siblings—Tony, George and Inge— also made enormous sacrifices in the name of "That this Parliament calls upon the my success. I only hope that my work here ALP Government to reinstate the funding, makes them proud. as commenced by the coalition, to Life Education Centres." I would also like to thank the current Life Education Centres around Australia Premier, Peter Beattie, and former Premier and indeed throughout the world have been Wayne Goss for their support and widely accepted. They are now established in encouragement over the years. Both are every State in Australia, the USA, New inspirations, mentors and friends. Zealand, Great Britain, South Africa and some They say you get by with a little help from Asian countries. This program has immense your friends. Some of my friends from whom I credibility amongst teachers and parents. It is have had my share of help are Paul Lucas, funded in almost every State in Australia, Wayne Swan, Kevin Rudd, Jim Elder, Ken including for some 20 years in New South Macpherson, Bill Ludwig, Kim Beazley, Craig Wales. Recently, in South Australia it received Emerson, Con Sciacca, Joseph Ludwig, Joan a fourfold increase in funding. Those are some Budd, John Mickel, Lindesay Jones, Jack of the reasons why in 1996 I, as Minister for Camp, Peter Shooter, Linda Holliday and Tom Education, decided to fund Life Education Burns. I thank them for their advice and Centres in this State to the tune of $1.8m over support over the years. I trust it will not end three years. Interestingly, when that now. announcement was made, no Opposition members opposed that funding initiative. In I would also like to say thankyou to the fact, many said to me privately that it was a party's campaign director, Cameron Milner, good move and it was about time that Life and the great people at party office. I pay Education Centres in this State received tribute to my terrific local campaign team, who Government recognition. worked so hard under the skilled directorship of my mate Bill Burton. I thank also Darcy In fact, one member of the Labor Party O'Dempsy, who coordinated our tremendous even issued a press release congratulating the doorknocking effort. Both Darcy and Bill are Government at the time and Life Education for experienced campaigners who are now their persistence in finally achieving teaching a new generation of Labor Government funding. The press release of candidates the importance of grassroots Merri Rose, the member for Currumbin, politics. stated— Finally, I would like to thank the great "It has been a hard struggle for Life Australian Labor Party. We have been around Education committees and this funding now for almost 110 years. We have been will go a long way to help promote and forming Governments for 100 years since deliver Life Education programs to Anderson Dawson created the first Labor Queensland kids." Government in the world right here in Having two children of my own, I know how Queensland. They may have been taunted important it is to educate our children about and paraded in chains, but the heroes of the effects of drugs on the human body and I Barcaldine gave birth to a movement that know how much they benefited from their even Alfred Deakin admitted was a many visits to Life Education Centres on the development "more cosmic than the Gold Coast. Mrs Rose said that she had been 474 Life Education Centres 15 Mar 2000 pushing for a long time for the funding and What are the reasons given by the congratulated Life Education on its persistence Government? They vary. First of all, the in obtaining Government assistance. Premier labelled the program a failure. This is I am of the same view, and that is why as the only State in Australia where funding for Minister I decided to fund Life Education Life Education Centres has been totally Centres in this State. I also have children who abolished. All of them are maintaining their went to Life Education Centres and I know of funding, if not increasing it. So we are out on their tremendous assistance in getting across our own. We are the only ones. The Premier the anti-drug message to my youngster at the and this Government are the only people who time. It is important to note that the Life believe that Life Education programs have Education program is not a stand-alone failed in our schools. Ninety-seven per cent of program; it is meant to be used in the context the teachers surveyed who have seen children of an integrated approach at the school level. go through the program believe that it is That is recognised by schools and principals valuable research. They do not believe what across the State. the Premier is saying. Of all the teachers whose students visit The Drug and Alcohol Foundation is Life Education Centres, over 97% of them simply appalled at the Government's action in would recommend Life Education as a this case, leaving no recognised drug resource in a drug education strategy. Not only education program in our schools does this program have immense credibility whatsoever—none whatsoever—being amongst parents; it also has immense delivered. What did the Queensland branch of credibility amongst teachers at the local level. the AMA say? Let us go to their press release. Is it any wonder that schools and teachers are It states— concerned now that the State Government "Too young to vote but old enough has abolished funding for Life Education to fall prey to drugs, Queensland's Centres in Queensland? That will have a teenagers will suffer the most, following marked impact on the message that is Premier Peter Beattie's decision to cut the delivered at schools about drug education. State's leading drug education program, What will it mean for our kids? Already we doctors warned today. have seen mobile classrooms in Hervey Bay, Spokesperson ... has condemned Maryborough and north-west Queensland the Premier's decision to abandon the being mothballed, with the prospect that State's drug education program as others will follow. Certainly there will be a immoral. reduction in trained staff employed by Life 'This is a shocking decision from Education Centres around this State. That is government which will deprive our State's because without Government funding local young from the education they need"— volunteer committees will be forced to raise more funds than ever before, just as they tried and on and on it goes. There is another to prior to funding being available. It will mean person who is really opposed to what is going increased fees charged to students attending on. Life Education programs. Principals are opposed to it. In a report in The high cost of educating children at the Gold Coast Bulletin both non-State and schools these days, both non-State and State State high school principals stated that they schools, will mean that some students in our are appalled at the action. They schools will miss out on receiving these recognise—and I suspect they speak for a important anti-drug messages. What we will large number of principals in the area, if not have is some students who can afford to around the State—that these programs have receive the program and other students who been of immense value to their students. We cannot. These students are not isolated to any have the QCPCA saying that the funding particular pocket in the State; they are spread should be restored, that the cuts should not go right across Queensland. All members of ahead. We have other people in the general Parliament have in their electorates students, community appalled at the action of the families and schools in the lower Government. socioeconomic group. They cannot all afford to What was the Minister's response to the go to Life Education Centres, and that is the question in relation to this asked in the House real impact of the cut in the funding for Life today? He simply said that these days Education Centres. Some of the students at everything needs to be done through the our schools will be unable to receive these very health and physical education syllabus that is important messages. being introduced into schools. What does the 15 Mar 2000 Life Education Centres 475 department say? For that we go to the report Mr HEGARTY (Redlands—NPA) on drug education in Queensland compiled by (6.04 p.m.): I rise to second the motion moved the Department of Education to see the by the member for Merrimac to reinstate results. It says— funding for Life Education as introduced by the "The combination of a new syllabus, coalition when in Government. I suggest that the requirement to plan teaching and the most serious problem facing communities learning from outcomes, a process today is drugs. It affects all parts of society: the unfamiliar to many teachers, and the lack users, families, victims of crime resulting from of specific topic or content area related to offences committed by users to support their drug education could provide difficulties habits and the community generally through for teachers in developing a the cost associated with providing policing and comprehensive and sequential approach corrections, health services, etc. in dealing with to addressing issues of drug use ..." the consequences of drugs. That is from page 10 of the Drug Education in The Queensland Drug Strategy Schools report of June 1999, signed off by the Framework has estimated that 4,000 drug Director-General of Education in Queensland. related deaths occur each year in Queensland, It is saying that, whilst this new program is at a social cost of $3.5 billion. It takes very little implemented, there needs to be ongoing drug to realise that any program that helps reduce education programs in our schools until our that cost to society is worth it. Yet, despite the teachers become familiar with the syllabus, alarm bells ringing for Government and the until they get the knowledge that they need to community to enhance their fight against the provide education in this specialist area. Whilst drugs in society, we have a State Labor all that is going on, there is no dedicated drug Government prepared to put children at risk by education program available to our students in withdrawing a successful drug education the schools. program which has been integrated into the curriculum in schools. The principals themselves are confirming that there will be some trouble in our schools in Life Education has successfully operated that respect. They are also confirming that no in Queensland since 1987 through public extra funds for drug education have been donations and community contributions made available to them. So it is nonsense to derived through fundraising. It was not until the say that schools can now provide the funds for coalition realised the benefits that the program drug education programs—Life Education was achieving that it received any Government Centres—out of their existing funds. They have funding. $1.8m was allocated over three years, no additional funds. The funds that are which enabled the program to reach over available for the implementation of the health 150,000 students in over 700 schools in and physical education syllabus are the same Queensland. sorts of funds available if they were going to The Life Education program was not just implement a science syllabus, a new maths about some lessons on the dangers of drugs syllabus or something of that nature. Nothing but a program that met the National Drug additional is going into our schools. Strategy. The National Drug Strategy is one The report that was produced by that uses influence and behavioural Education Queensland highlighted the fact methods—not moral judgment—to create a that drug education in Queensland receives, positive, well-educated approach to the on a per capita basis, the lowest funding of dangers of drugs for our children. It is any of the States of Australia. In Queensland integrated into the school lessons—it is not a the amount is 50c per student. We spend 50c stand-alone subject—and it provides feedback per student on dedicated drug education and interaction, including a parents program, a programs in this State. Honourable members very vital thing when one thinks about what the should compare that with other States: member for Bundamba mentioned in relation Victoria, $10 per student; New South Wales, to the effects of children going home to a $3.50 per student; and Western Australia, household where drugs are taken as a matter $7.40 per student. Other States are spending of course. much more than we are, yet here we are I think the Government has been very cutting funding all together. What does the remiss in dismissing this program out of hand Minister say when someone puts his own in the way it has when we see that the support departmental report in front of him? He says within the community is such that over 97% of that the actual number is $82 per person! How teachers endorsed the program. I can tell ridiculous can you get? honourable members that the P & Cs in my Time expired. electorate are very, very disappointed that this 476 Life Education Centres 15 Mar 2000 program has been withdrawn. On the Friday of "That all words after 'Parliament' be the last sitting week, I attended a business deleted with a view to substituting the breakfast in the Redlands put on by the local following words: Christian Businessmen's Association, which is 'commends the Government for a a fundraising group. It is very concerned about responsible and forward-looking approach the effects of drugs on society and it is taking to education in general, and drug very positive steps in trying to reduce the education in particular.'" impacts by funding local programs. The Reverend Tim Costello was the guest speaker Honourable members who have at that particular breakfast. That is how previously spoken in this debate have spoken seriously people out in the community consider on the basis that there is absolutely no doubt the impact of drugs on society. To bring a that Life Education is a successful program. I person of that calibre up here shows just how have an open mind on that issue. Bertrand seriously we need to protest against the Russell said that, when the experts differ, it removal of funding that had been provided by would be a wise thing for a wise individual to the previous coalition Government. withhold judgment. Let me read to the House an extract from a learned research report by Drug addiction funds are not provided authors Hawthorne, Garrard and Dunt from the only by the Government, but it has to take up National Centre for Health Program Evaluation the position of lead agency because, as the from the University of Melbourne. The abstract previous speaker said, in this State we of that report states— provided only 50c per student, compared with "This study examined the short-term as much as $10 a head in other States, to public health effects on 3000 11- and 12- provide drug education in our schools. I know year-old students, of whom 1700 were that the local council in my area contributes to exposed to 5 consecutive years of the drug education, and why would it not, programme. The other 1300 students considering the cost to the community that it were not exposed to the programme. has to fund? Drug users leaving syringes After controlling for the known predictors around parks cause considerable problems for of social drug use there was no evidence local councils and the wider community. that Life Education students, when I do not think that the Minister is really compared with students receiving serious when he says that the program is conventional school-based drug being replaced by a new health and physical education, were less likely to have education syllabus, because it will not be in the smoked, were less likely to have drunk or same vein as the previous successful program; were less likely to have used analgesics. Indeed, the evidence suggested that Life it is going to be integrated into a program Education-students were slightly more along with a whole range of subjects. So it will likely to use these substances ..." not be addressing the issues that the previous Life Education program successfully did in this I table that learned document. The debate State for the past 13 years. was enlivened in 1998 when Deakin University's coordinator of addiction studies, We heard earlier today that the use of Stephen Wallace, said that statistics showed cigarettes and alcohol by students in the 11 to about 5,000 children across Australia had 14 year age group has increased in the past started using drugs as a result of the Life several years. That goes to show that we Education program. I table that report also. I should not be reducing the efforts we are withhold judgment on this subject, but the making in reducing the impact on drugs; we proposition on which honourable members should be increasing the funding and opposite have based their whole argument is increasing the initiatives we can put in place. one which is very far from proven. The first very basic program is to refinance the The motion tonight is from the architect of Life Education program because of its very the Leading Schools program, one facet of valuable contributions to date and to look for which was the proposition that school-based innovative programs that will enhance and decision making was the way to go. Yet here complement that program with further he is advocating that there should be a Government funding. monolithic program determined by the Minister Time expired. in a ministerial office to be run by an organisation based on the Gold Coast to cover Hon. D. M. WELLS (Murrumba—ALP) the whole State. If he had his way, there would (Minister for Education) (6.10 p.m.): I move the be no choice; this is the one to be funded. I following amendment— would have thought it would be better for 15 Mar 2000 Life Education Centres 477 schools to make their judgments in light of the Mr BRISKEY (Cleveland—ALP) available evidence as to what worked, their (6.15 p.m.): I rise to second the amendment to own experience as to what had worked and the motion moved by the Minister for that they should choose those programs that Education. Drugs are an unfortunate feature of they wished. modern day life. The Government has an After all, it was then Minister Quinn who unquestionable responsibility to equip our himself—and the member who seconded the children with the skills and knowledge motion is apparently unaware of this—said in necessary for them to deal with the challenges 1997 that it would be a very good idea to have associated with drugs in the community. a new health and physical education syllabus Governments, parents and the community and that Life Education could be funded in must work cooperatively together to combat order to fill the gap until the health and this very real problem in our society. physical education syllabus was on line. We The fact that there are people in our now have the health and physical education community prepared to assist our children with syllabus in accordance with these papers from drug education is a very good thing. Those the ministerial council. people are to be commended for their efforts Let me tell the House what the ministerial and their diligence. It is important, however, council—that is all Ministers in this country, that all our efforts are constantly reviewed so State and Federal, Liberal and Labor—had to that as the nature of the problem changes so, say. They said— too, does the response. From time to time, "Drug education is best taught in the changing circumstances and different context of the school health curriculum. challenges will of course necessitate a different Drug education in schools should be response. It is important for this Government conducted by the teacher of the health to look to the experience of other States so we curriculum. Drug education programs and get the very best outcome for our children. resources should be selected to Life Education is a single, one-off complement the role of the classroom presentation. School vans visit some schools teacher with selected external resources perhaps once a year. However, as the Minister enhancing and not replacing that role." outlined, the agreed principles of drug That is what the working papers of the education state that programs for our children ministerial council had to say. should be ongoing, comprehensive and When talking about the Life Education developmentally appropriate. It is the view of program itself, I refer to a letter from one Stan the experts throughout the country that Collard, a gentleman who is well known to separate and isolated programs do not honourable members opposite. This letter was represent a sound curriculum. It would appear sent to the local Life Education organisations. that many Queensland schools agree. Not all It says— schools in the franchised areas covered by Life "The agreement signed with the Education use the program. Not all schools State Government ... represents, for this agree that this is the program for them, clearly year, approximately 50% of the educators' agreeing with the experts. For example, only salaries." 10 schools in the Hervey Bay/Maryborough Did they get 50% of the educators' salaries? area used the Life Education programs in Several units of Life Education have 1998-99. complained to me that this is not what Life Education is mainly a primary school happened. Another paragraph further down in program and not frequently used by secondary that letter states— schools. Drug education needs to be "Under the Franchise Agreement it is embedded in the school curriculum. I am a requirement to present the programme convinced that a comprehensive approach to as directed. All centres are required to the problem is best. We need to make sure supply every child with a workbook and that all our children have access to high every teacher with a teacher's manual. quality, ongoing and accurate drug education. ... An infrequent visit by the Life Education van is, in most cases, simply not enough. We need a "Committees that do not supply workbooks will not receive the full curriculum in Queensland to equip teachers subsidy." with the skills to deliver drug education as part of other policy areas, such as behaviour The consequence of this is that some money management. It has been necessary to was "clawed back", to use the phrase of one develop procedures and implement curriculum of the units. to bring about desired educational outcomes Time expired. for all students in relation to drugs. This 478 Life Education Centres 15 Mar 2000

Minister and this Government are to be Life Education has successfully met commended for their efforts so far. A stringent evaluation criteria in the years it has comprehensive approach such as this operated in schools. It provides an invaluable ultimately decreases the need for schools to resource to 150,000 young people in draw extensively upon external resources. Queensland schools. On the Sunshine Coast, It is mischievous for the member for some 12,000 students annually benefit from Redlands to suggest that the Government has this program. In so many regions throughout cut Life Education adrift, that the Government the State, now that this Labor Government is denying Life Education vans access to has slashed the funding these local schools, that the Government is in any way committees, who have worked so hard to removing the Life Education program as an provide this resource to their schools, will really option for school communities. The services struggle to make up the shortfall in funding. that the Life Education organisation offer to The committee on the Sunshine Coast our schools will remain available for school receives approximately $18,000 in communities to choose. Government funding. Its members fundraise a In 1998-99, this organisation was funded similar amount to put the program into these to the tune of $520,000, an increase of almost schools. They work very hard, as do people in 15% on the previous year. The organisation many of the other regions up and down the was always aware that funding was not coast, and they will find it extremely difficult to assured beyond 1998-99. The Life Education make up the shortfall. The result will be that Centre Foundation Queensland Inc. received the community will be the poorer because the $1.3m over three years. Education Government has shunned the local, caring Queensland, through the implementation of efforts to put this program into our schools. the health and physical education syllabus for Partnership with the community is a very all State schools, including a professional important part of an effective assault on the development and training CD-ROM for every drug and alcohol problem in our community. teacher, will be accomplished at a cost of Based on the Government's reasoning for $1.7m over three years. axing Life Education—it claims falsely that it Importantly, even the best intentioned, has no proven benefit—I have to ask what highly entertaining one-hour visit should not criteria the Government uses to evaluate other replace or draw funds away from the provision health promotion activities of Government. of ongoing, sequenced programs selected and We accept that health promotion and delivered by classroom teachers. Teachers, appropriate education about how people can the professionals, are in the best position to improve their health are worthwhile activities. know and cater for the individual needs of their Yet let us look at the track record of this students and to plan for the achievement of Government. It axed Laurie Lawrence's Kids particular educational outcomes. An argument Alive safe swimming program because it that this Government is not focused on thought it could do a better job. That program providing the best possible drug education to took a very small amount of money and was Queensland schoolchildren is simply not run by a man who had managed to raise sustainable. community support, yet the Government said, Miss SIMPSON (Maroochydore—NPA) "We can use that money better." I can tell the (6.20 p.m.): The fight against the destructive Government now that Laurie Lawrence's and growing drug culture in our community is program, for which he went out and got undermined by the Beattie Labor corporate sponsorship, has a far higher profile Government's axing of funds to Life than anything any of the Beattie Labor Education. No one drug and alcohol initiative Government's bureaucrats dreamed up. on its own is the answer to the scourge which That is the problem: this Government has is killing or frying the brains of our young no concept of partnering with the community. people. It thinks that all good ideas are born within An effective drug and alcohol policy of bureaucracy and that it can shun the efforts of Government has to be multifaceted and partnering with the community, which is a very interactive with the community sector. It is important part of getting a health promotion incomprehensible that this Beattie Labor message across and being effective in helping Government has slashed funding to what is an our young people stand against drugs in the effective anti-drug, pro-health education community. program operating in partnership with The Labor Government's crazy ideas with community members who work with our regard to Life Education are not in line with the schools. reaction I have had from the parents, students 15 Mar 2000 Life Education Centres 479 and teachers I have talked to in my electorate. are many of the issues which face schools The Drug and Alcohol Foundation has roundly every day. condemned the Government's axing of this Each school principal manages his or her program's funding. The AMA has come out own resources according to the needs of the and quite rightly criticised the amount of school. They are always looking forward to money the Government is currently spending improve the development and education of on drug education in our schools. their students and to introduce many The Minister has not proven anything innovations to make learning interesting and about the quality of the funding he is putting effective. I believe that teachers have the best into the Education Department. In fact, some interests of the children they teach at heart 50c per head of funding is provided for and they must have complete control over education against drugs in our schools. Yet their curriculum. the Minister was caught out claiming that that Education Queensland undertook a figure was $82. That would have meant some review of drug education which was critical of 1,000 full-time specialists in our schools, and the old approach to these issues. Good they do not exist. I am afraid that the Minister practice based on research suggests that has no credibility when he talks about the programs that are teacher facilitated and calibre and the effectiveness of the existing student orientated, rather than those which are drug program in State Schools, because it is drug orientated, one-off or information based, not funded. It has no proven outcomes at this are more likely to achieve positive educational time. outcomes. This key factor is what makes the We support a curriculum in schools that Queensland approach to drug education was mandated by the coalition under the different from the approach taken in other previous Education Minister, Bob Quinn. That States. It is widely acknowledged as the only drug message was in schools, but we support one which has the potential to reach all communities having that resource of Life students. To achieve full integration into the Education, which is well regarded in local school program and to ensure that it reaches communities. I have heard kids talk about the every student, the drug education program outcomes of that program. This Government must be based on core curriculum and has acted to take away that funding and will continuous classroom teaching. close down or severely inhibit the ability of The needs of our community change these communities to deliver this resource to constantly and we need to change drug schools that have chosen to invite this education programs in line with these program in because they know of its changes. Our focus has been and will continue effectiveness. They know its effectiveness in to be on the classroom teacher, the school the framework of the total alcohol and drug and its community. This approach is the result policy. of many years of experience and research into Time expired. the most effective means of providing young Mrs ATTWOOD (Mount Ommaney—ALP) people with the knowledge, skills and self- (6.25 p.m.): Recently I visited all of the schools confidence necessary to confront the often in the electorate of Mount Ommaney. This was difficult choices which our modern society basically to touch base with principals and find presents. out what issues were important to them. I Drug education must not only be often talk to teachers at various school delivered by a classroom teacher who has a functions I attend. These people are highly sound and ongoing relationship with her or his committed to their profession. students; it must also be solidly embedded in As the climate changes, so do the social the context of sound educational outcomes. conditions we live in. Some children attending This has been provided for us through the these schools live in semi-poverty situations. I implementation of Queensland's new health have heard stories of young children coming to and physical education syllabus. Activities school without breakfast and having to be fed already under way for 2000 in school drug by some of their teachers. Some children have education are about building the capacity of behavioural problems which are very difficult to schools and their communities to deliver on deal with and which consequently disrupt the the educational outcomes we consider normal class routine. All schools I have visited necessary for effective drug education. were very supportive of mainstreaming, but This year we will develop and implement a teachers were adamant that disadvantaged substantial professional development activity students in mainstream education need to be for our school leaders and members of school supported with adequate supervision. These communities. With national funding support we 480 Life Education Centres 15 Mar 2000 will provide opportunities for community position at the front door to the main pavilion. members to become more closely involved The volunteers and the people from the with their schools on issues surrounding drug service clubs who gave their time to the education and policy. New Internet and organisation really wanted to do something for multimedia resources which support teachers our children. in their drug fighting role and in our schools are So often we hear people say, "Someone already well on the way. should do something about drugs." The Unlike the policies of the previous people of Life Education were doing administration, which focused on the support something about drugs. They were doing it of high profile, politically appealing programs from the heart. During his speech, the Minister which were unlikely to be ongoing or quoted some philosopher or playwright. That is sustainable, drug education now impacts on typical of this Government's approach. We had every student because it is integrated into the an air-headed comment about—well, I could mainstream curricular and co-curricular not even tell honourable members what it was activities. There are many demands on about. It involved Bertrand Russell or someone education funding. School-based like that. management leaves schools to choose the best local option for the drug education With Life Education we are talking about program. The school drug education program honest battlers who want to do something. is only part of the answer to the problem of Instead of that, we have to put up with this air- drugs. Parents and the broader community headed nonsense from the other side. It is an also have an essential role to play. absolute disgrace that the Beattie Government, through this Minister, would turn Mr HORAN (Toowoomba South—NPA) its back on something which, over a period of (6.30 p.m.): Many times in this House I have years, has provided a service for some heard honourable members on both sides talk 154,000 children in towns, suburbs and about the scourge of drugs and what we centres throughout Queensland. It was a should be doing for the young people in our worthwhile service which gave young people community. Our society has battled such the opportunity to understand the dangers of illnesses as poliomyelitis and measles and we drugs. Children were taught about how they now have vaccines for these diseases. But we would be offered the first temptation to take now have the insidious and dreadful scourge drugs. They were taught how to say no to of drugs. It is one of the worst things to ever hit drugs. They were taught about the risks and society. It is a difficult matter with which to dangers of drugs. deal. In Life Education we had a service All honourable members have had times provided by a host of volunteers. The service in their lives when they wished someone had was the subject of an enormous amount of told them something before they walked into it. community effort and community input. People The only way our kids are going to know about were committed to this service, which served the insidious dangers of drugs is if they receive some 154,000 children in this State. In my educational opportunities such as those own area of Toowoomba on the Darling Downs provided by Life Education. the service has educated some 10,000 young I encourage the Minister to introduce children. whatever system he likes into our schools. Here was a valuable resource which was Members on this side of the House have actually doing something. What does the spoken on many occasions about having a Beattie Labor Government do to this complete system of education. Just prior to the resource? It chops out miserly funding of 1998 election, when we were in Government, $520,000-odd a year. Those opposite talk we were attempting to involve the Education about the need to do something for young Department, the police, and the Health people but turn their backs upon them. Department in a comprehensive system. The Minister has spoken about I ask the Minister: why throw out the Life introducing a new system into school classes. Education system? It is a system that has However, I ask the Minister not to throw the been put in place by good, decent Life Education service away. It is a service Queenslanders. These volunteers have gone which has proven to be successful in this to our schools to provide this service. It is an State. I was manager of the Toowoomba outstanding service. For the Minister to quote showgrounds when the Life Education service some figures provided by a professor at commenced in 1988 or 1989. At the Deakin University who is not living in showgrounds we gave these volunteers a Queensland— 15 Mar 2000 Life Education Centres 481

Mr Wells: Was he a playwright or a However, we move on. The fact is that we philosopher? need an in-house program. This is the way in Mr HORAN: I don't care what he was. For which the education system has always the Minister to quote such figures and not take worked. We have pilot programs. We have notice of the people who provide these areas which need support. We have programs honorary services is an absolute disgrace. We which prove their worth and they become need every possible tool and advantage we enmeshed in the education system per se. can muster in order to defeat the scourge of That is what education is all about. It is a drugs. We cannot turn our backs on the kids in dynamic, changing thing. It is not something our towns, cities and suburbs by halting this which is built in stone. funding. The Minister must reinstate this Unfortunately, members opposite are still funding. He has done a dreadful thing. He has driving via the rear vision mirror; they still want no understanding of the service. He has no to look back rather than look forward. The understanding of what it means to parents and Government has a 2010 strategy which teachers. He has no understanding of the represents the future. It is a program which difficulties and complexities of the drug scene. asks, "Where are we going to be in the next He has no understanding of the dreadful 10 years?" It is not a question of looking back potential for these kids to get caught up with at where we have been and saying, "That drugs. program really needs to stay there." We need For the Minister to rip out this one to be moving ahead, and that is exactly what opportunity of providing our children with this Government is about. We are planning for education, knowledge, self-confidence and the next 10 years. discipline with regard to drugs during their primary and secondary school years is an For example, in our secondary schools we absolute disgrace. recognise the fact that, because of 30 years of National Party Government, nothing was spent Time expired. on upgrading facilities and making them Hon. R. E. SCHWARTEN (Rockhampton— responsive to modern needs. We now have ALP) (Minister for Public Works and Minister for our secondary school renewal program. This is Housing) (6.35 p.m.): I rise to support the an innovative program which will make sure amendment moved by the Minister. In so that our kids who go to our State schools have doing, let me say that I listened to the previous the best facilities possible. That is how one speaker. Yes, I do know something about this makes a difference to kids. It is important to program—as a teacher, as a father having had make sure that they have the facilities and the both my sons go through the program, and as circumstances to enable them to get the very a husband whose wife, who is a teacher, has best education outcomes possible. accessed the program herself. I am not standing here to deride this program. It is not a matter of standing up here and saying, "That program, for what it did, was I believe that some of the comments that great", without looking at what else we need to have been made in the politicisation of this do. We need the new health and education issue tonight are regrettable, to say the very program in our primary and secondary schools. least. My experience with this program is that it It is a matter of teaching kids about the danger is a good program for what it does. It provides of drugs. It is about ensuring that our a two-hour session per annum for students. That is fine. It certainly serves its purpose. It is educational programs—regardless of whether not dead. It is certainly not dead in my the kids are learning maths, English or any electorate. John Peach, the former principal of other subject—ram home the message: Glenmore High School, is a good bloke and a "Drugs are bad for you; cigarettes are bad for solid citizen. He works with the program and he you." is determined to see the program continue to People who think that it is a silo situation, run. I am going to support him in that regard. where we have the problem of drugs over John already has an application to the gaming here, we take it off the shelf and we talk about fund for funds to support the program. it for the first half hour of the day, will find that I know of schools that will continue to use those days are gone in our education system. the program. Let us not overstate the case We have moved on from that. That is what this and say that this program is going to die. It will Government is about. Sure, we will still have continue if it has community support. I am sure the van coming around and providing the two- it will continue. No-one is here to deride the hour program for our kids. However, we need program or the people who work in it. I something more than that, something that certainly support it in my electorate. builds onto that. 482 Life Education Centres 15 Mar 2000

This is a matter that ought to be They are giving the member for Rockhampton supported by the House. This morning we a lot of flak over the whole issue. If the heard the Minister speaking about the basics. member really supports the program, then he How many times do we hear the catchcry that should be allowed to vote with the coalition this kids cannot read as well as they used to be evening. He should show the people of able to read? We are doing something about Rockhampton where he stands, instead of that and we are addressing that issue. The having one foot on each side of a barbed wire Minister also had a program dealing with fence. It must be getting fairly difficult for the bullying, for example. There were other member to sustain that balancing act, and I instances where kids were pushed aside in our am sure he is feeling very sore after standing society and they fell off the end of the table. with one foot on each side of the barbed wire That is where all our problems originated. fence. If the pressure is so great, then he We will never succeed until we have an should be allowed to vote with the Opposition. inclusive education system. The 2010 strategy I notice that earlier Minister Wells is aimed at having our schools embrace the engaged in some selective quoting. Of course, whole philosophy of education and taking us he forgot to say that Life Education national forward. It is not a matter of saying, "Any old director, Dr Tony Metherall, stated that— program will do our kids." It is a matter of "... the claims against the programme looking at what works for kids. It is also a were 'dishonest' as the research data was matter of ensuring that our teachers have the old (1991) and the programme had since necessary skills to undertake the programs. It been changed twice. is about ensuring that teachers have the necessary back-up. The programme is now much more skills-based than knowledge-based, which Time expired. prepares the students to make informed Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly—LP) decisions." (6.40 p.m.): The Government's amendment to Dr Metherall stated further— this motion moved by the Opposition highlights the lack of commitment of this Government to "... Life Education ... was the most fighting drug use in this State. The Minister, in evaluated drug education programme in his speech and in his amendment, said Australia and had produced 'dramatic nothing about how much the Government is effects' in some areas including the going to spend on drug education. Instead, we marked reduction in Year 7 girls taking up just heard a lot of waffle, gibberish and smoking." nonsense from the Minister. He gave no Those quotes are contained in the document indication at all of how much this Government that was tabled in this House by the Minister is going to spend on drug education. less than an hour ago. So the Minister has The fact is that the Government is cutting engaged in very selective quoting to promote the Life Education program; its expenditure on his position. drug education will be zero. Queensland will go However, at no time did the Minister from spending the least on drug education at mention what the Government is going to do. 50c per student down to zero, compared with At no time did the Minister mention what Victoria, which spends $10 per student on funding is going to be made available. We are drug education. That comparison speaks for not talking about philosophies; we are talking itself and tells the exact situation. about real life, tragic situations—real life At one stage, the Minister said that we issues. We are talking about the scourge of spend $82 per State school student on drug modern society that is drugs. It is about time education. I notice that tonight in this Chamber that this Minister for Education woke up to he did not repeat that claim. If we spent that himself and realised what is occurring in the much money per student on drug education, it broader community. It is a sad situation in would total $38m. If we are spending $38m, which we continue to get mixed messages. everyone wants to know where it is being Instead of the Government getting out there spent. That was just a lot of nonsense—a and fighting drugs and sending a clear throwaway line by the Minister to try to dig message to young people in our community himself out of a hole. that this Government's goal is to have a drug- The member for Rockhampton, who free society and to educate people about the spoke after the Minister, also had little to say. I problems of drugs, this Government simply understand that the people in Rockhampton goes to water. are fighting vigorously to retain this program. The figures that were produced by They want the Government to fund it again. Education Queensland prove that the 50c per 15 Mar 2000 Life Education Centres 483 student spent on drug education is not Mr SULLIVAN: Mr Speaker, if members something that somebody has made up; it is opposite were to provide information to from Education Queensland's own reports. schools, and they supported a business run by That figure should be compared with the $10 a couple of their mates to the exclusion of per student that is spent on drug education in other people, then it would be a disgrace. Victoria. That document was produced by Opposition members interjected. Education Queensland in June 1999. Queensland has the lowest expenditure on Mr SULLIVAN: I can understand why the drug education of any State. Due to the members opposite are squealing, because disbanding of this central source of they know that they are supporting a expenditure, the amount spent on drug commercial franchise, not a program that looks education in Queensland is now zero. I am after kids. referring to the Government's own figures and The drug education program in nobody else's. Those figures speak for Queensland schools was started by Labor in themselves. 1996 and, if the members opposite do not The AMA indicated that it was horrified know that, they should know it. It was that this Government was reducing to zero the continued by their then Minister, Mr Quinn. At expenditure on fighting drugs in this State. that stage, there was a resource available. Education is a very important part of the That resource is provided through the Life overall drug program. Surely a fundamental Education centre, which is a commercial feature of a Government's overall drug enterprise and— strategy has to be to say to young people that Mr Veivers: Through the Chair. it is cool to be clean, that they ought not to be Mr SULLIVAN: I am speaking through the touching drugs of any sort, and to educate Chair. I am just looking at the member, them on the problems that are created in although I probably should not be. society if they start down the track of taking drugs. Very clearly, this Government has a This Life Education centre and its course is a resource. If schools wish to use that motto: it can't do. When it comes to drug education, it can't do. Again this evening, that resource, that is great. Under the Opposition's motto has been reaffirmed by this Minister. system, and to some degree continued by this Government through school-based Time expired. management, the schools have the money to Mr SULLIVAN (Chermside—ALP) make the decision as to what they want to do. (6.45 p.m.): I rise to support the amendment Mr Borbidge wants to make sure that the drug moved by the Minister. This Government is education program goes to one firm, with a committed to doing all it can to address the former National Party senator and a failed problems of drugs, including the education of Liberal candidate getting the money. The the young. Drugs is a dirty business in our $500,000 is going to two of the Opposition's society, and this debate is about the Nationals mates whereas, in fact, the review carried out and Liberals supporting a business run by the in 1999 by Education Queensland found that if former National Party senator, Stan Collard, schools, teachers, parents and the community and a former failed Liberal candidate—was it are all involved in drug education, that for the seat of Moncrieff, Mrs Sheldon? produces the best outcome—not simply bringing in one commercial provider. Mrs Sheldon: What has that got to do with it? That review also recognised that Education Queensland is not the sole agent. Mr SULLIVAN: I will tell the member what If, in fact, a school wishes to use the Life it has to do with it. This Life Education program Education program, fine. Let them use some is a business venture run by a former National of the school grants to do that, but do not— Party senator and a failed Liberal candidate. The members opposite are supporting their Mr Veivers interjected. Liberal and National mates in a business. Mr SULLIVAN: That is incorrect. The It would be equally wrong if, in fact, you schools receive grants for it, so, in fact, they have the option to employ the Life Education supported a particular firm which was providing centre or some other group for their drug driver education in schools. It would be wrong education. We are seeing Mr Quinn, the for you to say, "Driver and road safety member for Merrimac, and his Opposition education equals supporting a particular firm or colleagues wanting to ensure that $500,000 of a particular franchise." taxpayers' money goes solely to an enterprise Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for run by a couple of their mates. If schools wish Chermside will address the Chair. to use that resource, that is open to them. But 484 Government Publicity Control Bill 15 Mar 2000 they should have the option of using all the Mickel, Miller, Mulherin, Musgrove, Nelson-Carr, available resources. The health and physical Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pitt, Reeves, Reynolds, Roberts, education syllabus being implemented deals Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Spence, Struthers, with Years 1 to 10—not just 150,000 kids for Welford, Wells, Wilson. Tellers: Sullivan, Purcell one and a half hours a year but for all kids NOES, 42—Beanland, Black, Borbidge, Connor, from Years 1 to 10. That is where the money Cooper, E. Cunningham, Dalgleish, Davidson, Elliott, should be going, not into an enterprise run by Feldman, Gamin, Goss, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, a couple of mates of the member for Johnson, Kingston, Knuth, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, Malone, Mitchell, Nelson, Paff, Prenzler, Merrimac. He should be ashamed of what he Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Seeney, Sheldon, Simpson, is doing.The Minister is right in rejecting his Slack, Springborg, Stephan, Turner, Veivers, plea. Watson, Wellington. Tellers: Baumann, Hegarty Mr SPEAKER: The question was— The numbers being equal, Mr Speaker Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. cast his vote with the Ayes. The hour is not quite up, I understand. Resolved in the affirmative. Mr SPEAKER: The question was that Mr Sitting suspended from 6.57 p.m. to Quinn's motion be agreed to. 8.30 p.m. Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise—NPA) (Leader of the Opposition) (6.51 p.m.): I move— GOVERNMENT PUBLICITY CONTROL BILL "That the member for Surfers Dr WATSON (Moggill—LP) (Leader of the Paradise be heard." Liberal Party) (8.30 p.m.), by leave, without notice: I move— The hour is not yet up, Mr Speaker. "That leave be granted to bring in a Mr SPEAKER: The question was that Mr Bill for an Act to provide for the scrutiny of, Quinn's motion be agreed to, since which it and guidelines for, government publicity has been proposed by Mr Wells that the that appears to have the capacity to question be amended by omitting all words influence public support for a political after Parliament and inserting the words party or its candidates or for a member of contained in the amendment. The question the Legislative Assembly, and for other now is that the amendment be agreed to. purposes." Question—That the amendment be Motion agreed to. agreed to—put; and the House divided— AYES, 42—Attwood, Barton, Beattie, Bligh, Boyle, Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Clark, J. Cunningham, First Reading Edmond, Elder, Fenlon, Foley, Fouras, Hamill, Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and Hayward, Kaiser, Lucas, Mackenroth, McGrady, Bill, on motion of Dr Watson, read a first time. Mickel, Miller, Mulherin, Musgrove, Nelson-Carr, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pitt, Reeves, Reynolds, Roberts, Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Spence, Struthers, Second Reading Welford, Wells, Wilson. Tellers: Sullivan, Purcell Dr WATSON (Moggill—LP) (Leader of the NOES, 42—Beanland, Black, Borbidge, Connor, Liberal Party) (8.31 p.m.): I move— Cooper, E. Cunningham, Dalgleish, Davidson, Elliott, Feldman, Gamin, Goss, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, "That the Bill be now read a second Johnson, Kingston, Knuth, Laming, Lester, Lingard, time." Littleproud, Malone, Mitchell, Nelson, Paff, Prenzler, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Seeney, Sheldon, Simpson, Recent events have highlighted the Slack, Springborg, Stephan, Turner, Veivers, Beattie Government's total impropriety and Watson, Wellington. Tellers: Baumann, Hegarty hypocrisy on the multimillion-dollar business of public sector advertising. Earlier this month, The numbers being equal, Mr Speaker the Australian Broadcasting Authority ruled cast his vote with the Ayes. that Government advertising of Labor's Resolved in the affirmative. controversial industrial relations laws were Mr SPEAKER: Any future divisions on this undeniably political. In other words, the motion will be of two minutes' duration. Government was caught out spending public money on political propaganda. It knew the Question—That the motion, as amended, rules and it broke the rules. be agreed to—put; and the House divided— The Auditor-General is also investigating AYES, 42—Attwood, Barton, Beattie, Bligh, Boyle, Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Clark, J. Cunningham, the expenditure of public money on political Edmond, Elder, Fenlon, Foley, Fouras, Hamill, advertising commissioned by WorkCover last Hayward, Kaiser, Lucas, Mackenroth, McGrady, year. The ABA's guidelines on political 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 485 advertising were introduced in 1998, well identical provisions in 1998. This is what he before the Government's commercials were said about the Bill— put to air. This was a clear-cut case of "It creates an all-party parliamentary breaching clear-cut rules, and the remedy was committee to scrutinise Government equally clear cut. publicity which has the capacity to Under the Premier's own prescription, the influence public support for a political advertising bill should have been paid by the party or its candidates or for a member of ALP. The Government had a clear obligation the Legislative Assembly, and it provides to seek reimbursement from Labor Party guidelines for the sort of publicity which is headquarters. It has not done so, and it considered proper. It will ensure that, as refuses to do so. This is the clearest evidence far as possible, public money is not spent yet that the Premier's so-called code of on Government publicity for a partisan conduct on Government advertising is not political purpose. It will scrutinise and worth the paper it is written on. formulate guidelines for Government If his shonky code was worth a cracker, publicity that appears to the committee to Queensland taxpayers would not be paying for have the capacity of being used for political propaganda. That was the acid test, partisan political purposes. The and the Premier failed. There is nothing in this committee's area of responsibility includes shabby excuse for a code of conduct— monitoring and reviewing spending by nothing—to stop the Premier spending millions public authorities on Government of dollars on Government advertising right up publicity. We can, and will, make a to election day. difference on behalf of the people of Queensland." The guidelines consist of 12 lines. The exceptions, excuses and escape clauses take I commend this Bill to the House. up 15 lines. A fleet of trucks could be driven Debate, on motion of Mr Hamill, through this code. There is more hole than adjourned. substance. This is a Clayton's code—the code we have to have when we do not want a code. It is totally useless. COMPETITION POLICY REFORM The Premier will not even comply with (QUEENSLAND) REPEAL BILL existing provisions administered by the ABA, Second Reading so why would he worry about his own shonky Debate resumed from 1 March (see code? This is just political camouflage—and p. 206). how things change. Less than two years ago, the member for Brisbane Central was Dr PRENZLER (Lockyer—CCAQ) promising to slash Government advertising by (8.34 p.m.), continuing: Patently, with the $12m a year, or $48m over four years. We possible exception of the member for Brisbane now know that Government advertising blew Central and a couple of other inner city out to an all-time record last year—more than members, members have failed individually $77m. It has gone from $60m-odd to $77m in and collectively to represent the best interests the blink of an eye. It now plans to splurge of their constituents. The members, past and more than $300m over the next four years. present, of both sides of this House who voted for the Competition Policy Reform This is the same Government squeezing (Queensland) Act 1996 will be remembered for essential services such as health, education their treachery forever. and the police while the Premier feeds his ego at Queensland's expense. What hypocrisy! I have noticed that members on both What a disgrace! This is a Government sides of the House are beginning to soften sacking surgeons in our hospitals because their stance on competition policy as it applies there are not enough health dollars, ripping in this State. The member for Moggill said in teachers out of schools because they are one this place on 11 November 1998— or two students short of a quota and banning "The impact of National Competition police from making arrests which might put Policy has obviously been detrimental to them into overtime. large sections of the Australian and The people of Queensland are sick and Queensland countryside." tired of the Premier and his mates spending Is it not interesting that the member for Moggill up big on shameless self-promotion and states that changes brought about by National political propaganda. In conclusion, I simply Competition Policy include telecommunications quote the second-reading speech of the and the Internet to the people of regional member for Brisbane Central when he tabled Australia? What communications, I ask the 486 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000 member? Let us look at the mobile telephone views and their beliefs. In the same debate, fiasco. Even if they have improved, they the leader of the coalition— should be a right to those people and not a Mr Lucas interjected. condition of National Competition Policy. The member for Ashgrove said on the Mr Sullivan: Do you meet as a party same day— group and decide what you are going to do at all? "Policy makers need to understand that the denial of the economic goal of Dr PRENZLER: I do not think I will take equity and the relentless drive for that interjection from the member for Lytton. efficiency at all costs has been destroying He is not in his correct seat and should not be regional Australia, has led to an allowed to make an interjection at any rate. So acceptance of higher levels of I will refuse that. In response to the interjection unemployment and is damaging to social from the member for Chermside—we do have cohesion." meetings. That is correct. But we do vote on a number of occasions according to our The member for Ashgrove also quoted conscience. He has seen examples of that in the Business Council of Australia, commenting this House. on the sale of public utilities such as Telstra. He said— In the same debate, the leader of the coalition stated— "Blind adherence to this corporate agenda is not in the interests of the "... National Competition Policy has gone overwhelming majority of our citizens. The off the rails. The elected practitioners growing trend towards privatisation and have lost control. Time and time again we outsourcing the public sector must be see how Parliaments have delegated abhorred. From an economic perspective, responsibility to unelected commissions the argument that outsourcing will which then usurp the fundamental and improve economic performance appears sovereign rights of the duly elected rational but the evidence is disappointedly Parliaments of Australia. thin. ... Industry Commission publications Thank heavens the National show that one in four people who are Competition Council was not around when made redundant from outsourcing never we built the Snowy Mountains Scheme, work again. In applying the public benefit because it would never have been built. test, one should then factor in the Thank heavens the National Competition increased cost of providing Council had not been invented when we unemployment benefits as well as the put in the railway lines to the coalmines to social dislocation, particularly in our generate the export income that has regions. made sure that this State ... has I believe that it is time that all of us consistently outpaced other States here said to the people running the around Australia in terms of economic economic agenda of the world that growth. people are much more important than profit, that society needs to be cohesive ... and that society needs to have the goal There are aspects of National of equity returned to its common policy Competition Policy that have been goal. We must care about people. We beneficial, but there are large areas of must make sure that people are National Competition Policy that are paramount rather than profits." destroying the social fabric of our State, When I read the speech by the member and that is no more so than in rural and for Ashgrove, delivered on this subject a year regional Queensland. ago, I was impressed by his perceptiveness ... and depth of feelings. One could be forgiven If the National Competition Council for believing that the member was indeed wants to do something honourable and speaking from the heart. It is a great shame productive, it should pack up and go that the truly honest and compassionate home." members of this House are seldom allowed by their party bosses to speak honestly and On the same day, while moving an openly of their personal views and even less amendment to our motion, the Treasurer frequently allowed to vote according to those stated— 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 487

"What is the good of being more than the blood money the Prime Minister tremendously competitive if we do not has used to bribe or blackmail the have communities that are viable? What decentralised States of Australia into is the benefit of dismantling large sections submission? Some of the more faint-hearted of our social infrastructure if what we then members of this House may feel offended by have left is distress and poverty? the use of forthright words such as "blood ... money", "bribe" and "blackmail", but they are accurate words to describe the cowardly Furthermore this is something I am bullying tactics employed by both the Keating distressed about. We have here the Labor Party Government and more recently National Competition Council purporting to the Howard Liberal/National Party set itself above elected Governments. Governments. They are tactics used to force ... all Australian Governments to publicly embrace We as Governments in Australia the aberration of economic theory known as need to reassert ourselves and make sure economic rationalism and its bastard child the that the policy serves the people and that National Competition Policy. No doubt there the people are not subservient to the are some sycophants in this place who will rise policy." up and proclaim that the National Competition Policy is a stand-alone idea dreamt up by Mr Finally, in seconding the Treasurer's Hilmer. They will further claim that it has no amendment, the Premier stated— connection with globalisation or economic "I do so because it is about time rationalism. If they believe that, they must also National Competition Policy was changed. believe that a child has no connection with its My Government is determined to mother or father, because as surely as a child renegotiate it with the Prime Minister. I is the product of the union between a man have noticed that the other side of politics and a woman so is National Competition Policy has indicated that it also wants to see the product of the unholy union between change. globalisation and economic rationalisation. But ... I digress. Let us get a unanimous decision of Let us get back to the motion adopted by this Parliament and let us send a very this Parliament on 11 November 1998. Was clear message to all of our Federal the motion as passed simply a conglomeration colleagues, be they Labor, Liberal, of meaningless words put together to frustrate National ... or whatever. Let us send a the intention of the original motion proposed very clear message out of this Parliament by us or was it a true reflection of the views tonight that we value jobs, we value and feelings of the members who supported communities, we value the decentralised it? If it was a true reflection of these views, why nature of this State and we as has no appreciable action been taken over the Queenslanders value our quality of life. past 12 months to get us off this crazy self- We want to make absolutely certain that destructive merry-go-round we find ourselves the National Competition Policy ... stops on? It must by now be obvious to every destroying jobs and quality of life in this honourable member that the net effect of the State." imposition of this crazy National Competition After hearing such eloquently damning words Policy experiment is negative in almost every spoken in this place some 12 months ago, respect in virtually every single region of one could be forgiven for thinking that the Queensland, with the possible exception of the scourge of National Competition Policy would inner Brisbane area. In spite of the Treasurer's by now be killed stone dead in this most rhetoric last week, the National Competition forward-thinking of Australian States. After all, Policy has devastated many rural areas and even the Premier, arguably the most influential devastated the work force of many rural councils. And what for? Just to satisfy the and persuasive politician in the State, has crazy dreams of a mad economic rationalist stated quite unequivocally that he and his called Hilmer! Government are determined to renegotiate it with the Prime Minister. What has happened Therefore, tonight I would expect that over the past 12 months? Has the Premier virtually every honourable member who backed up his words with any significant professes to truly represent the best interests actions? Has he told the Prime Minister that it of his or her electorate will have no choice is all over? Has he told the Prime Minister that other than to support this Bill and to repeal the our State values our jobs, our communities competition policy. I commend the Bill to the and the decentralised nature of our State House. 488 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000

Mr KNUTH (Burdekin—CCAQ) (8.45 p.m.): the Opposition as long as it wants; there is no Over the past couple of sittings my colleagues mud on me and I will hammer the Government and I have spoken about National Competition on this issue. Policy, deregulation and so on. However, I Mr Feldman: It gave the Productivity wish to take a different path in this debate. I Commission something to do. have been in this place for about 19 months and not once have I seen this Parliament obey Mr KNUTH: Yes, it created jobs—bad the intergovernmental agreement in that jobs. As I said, under National Competition legislation passed by Parliament must adhere Policy why do small businesses not have the to national competition guidelines. I heard the right to get their own private insurance, which Treasurer saying that liquor sales by large in some cases is half to a third of the cost of retailers had been knocked back. I believe that that on offer from WorkCover Queensland? was a decision made by the Industrial Mr Lucas: And what about the small Commission. businesses that have to pay twice as much? Mr Lucas: No. What about them? Mr KNUTH: As far as I know, the Mr KNUTH: I do not know any small Government abided by the Industrial business that has to pay twice as much. All the Commission's advice. There is now another small businesses I know have paid top dollar review into the sale of liquor by big retailers. to get their insurance through WorkCover. I do Some discussion papers have been sent to not know what the member is talking about. me. Maybe the member for Lytton has never been in small business, so he does not understand Mr Lucas: Yeah, but it wasn't the the small business sector. Industrial Commission. In relation to WorkCover, small business Mr KNUTH: I may stand to be corrected cannot go to private insurance, but big on that. business can. Why is it that big business can Since I have been in this Parliament I go and get private insurance and small have seen no legislation in this Chamber business cannot? That is discrimination—clear, offering small business similar rights in relation outright discrimination—against small to competition. That is a fact. Let us speak business. If the Government is going to about the WorkCover legislation passed by this introduce a detrimental policy such as National House. Months ago I asked: why is it that Competition Policy— small businesses do not have the right to Mr Lucas: They introduced that. obtain insurance from the private insurance Mr KNUTH: No, the Government sector to cover their employees? introduced it. I will keep hammering it home on Mr Lucas: So you want competition; is that one. If the Government is going to that what you are saying? introduce this legislation, then why can it not Mr KNUTH: No, I am saying that the be fair to both sides—if it is implemented. That National Competition Council sets guidelines. I is where small business and rural Australia are do not like competition policy. In fact, I abhor very clearly being hijacked. it. But the fact is that it is here and I cannot We witnessed the passage of the Sugar stop it. I cannot change Government thinking. Industry Bill, which was probably one of the However, Government members can change most discriminatory Bills towards small the Government's direction. Tonight they have business, small operators and farmers ever the power to throw the National Competition passed in this House. Clearly the Policy out of this Chamber, that is, if they want multinationals and big business are behind to. But they will not do so. Government National Competition Policy. I will say it: members will just keep shoving this issue back National Competition Policy is a monopoly held at the Opposition until the next election. That by big business and multinationals. I will say it is all it is being used for. Their hearts are in the again: it is a monopoly held by them. They are wrong place. They brought this upon us. The the ones who are running the show. They are previous Federal Labor Government the ones who are dictating to Governments introduced this policy. Former Premier Goss and Parliaments how the policy should be run. ran down to Hobart and signed the It clearly discriminates against small business intergovernmental agreements. They brought in every field—rural Queensland, the works. I this upon the State and they will wear the am exposing this to the House tonight. I am consequences. I will keep telling the small exposing this to Queensland. If the people businesses in my electorate that they opposite were fair dinkum, they would put up introduced it. The Government can hammer legislation under the National Competition 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 489

Policy guidelines that is fair to both sectors. I Professor Samuel. I have asked him to follow am not discriminating against big business or this up, because I know the Labor Party now is multinationals, but I am against discrimination waiting for its third tranche assessment against small business. It should be fair to payments. I know that it is waiting for the little both sides. Christmas package. However, I am doing How can anyone justify the fact that, everything I can to ensure that it does not get under the Sugar Industry Act, a cane farmer is it or that it gets fined because the legislation not allowed to have transferability? If one that has passed through this Chamber is company of millers is not giving him the best discriminatory. deal, is not crushing his cane right or is not Mr Roberts: That is less money for giving him a better price, why does he not schools, less money for police. have the right under National Competition Mr KNUTH: No, it is less money for Policy guidelines to go to another mill and farmers and small business. I will not take that demand that he be given a better deal? interjection, because that is what I knew was Because once again the National Competition going to be thrown against me. The Labor Policy guidelines are discriminatory! They do Party members were the ones who instigated not work. When Hilmer wrote this up, I am this. If they want to pull in detrimental quite sure he was not half the madman he legislation and introduce it to our State, then might have been. The fact is that I think the they have to pay the consequences. They are National Competition Policy guidelines have not going to use the Opposition as a cop-out. been hijacked by the big players and that no The member opposite can say that the legislation is being passed that is fair to both schools and the police department—you name sides. it—are going to miss out, but what about small There was a recent case in the Burdekin business? What about the farmers who are where the Inkerman sugarmill had breakdowns going to miss out? What about them? The because it had not been keeping up mill money comes out of their pockets. The maintenance. That left a lot of farmers in the members opposite do not receive any money lurch because they could not get their cane off unless it comes from small business, to another mill as the other mills had closed taxpayers— down. Only one mill was operating, but it could Mr Lucas: What about the dairy industry? not keep up with demand; it did not have the capacity to crush that cane. So a number of Mr KNUTH: The member for Lytton cane farmers had no mill to send their cane to. cannot speak on small business because he Transferability was not in the Act, so they could has never been in small business. not take their produce to another mill further Mr Lucas: Is that right? You would know, down the road in the Mackay region. It was would you? going to be too costly. These are the reasons Mr KNUTH: Yes, I have been in small that the competition council is discriminatory business; I have been a battler. I do not come against small operators. from the lawyer class; I do not come from the Another section of the Sugar Industry Bill legal fraternity. I come from the battling class provided that—and this is what I am talking of Australia. I worked for 20 years in the about—under an agreement with a sugarmill, if building industry and I know what small a farmer fails to get his crop off because he business is about. There are not too many has a heart attack or falls ill, the miller could members on that side of the House who have then turn around and sue for compensation been in small business. I can see that the because that farmer is unable to deliver his member opposite has—I see a few hands. I assignment. This is where it discriminates once am sorry. again. As with the episode of the Inkerman mill Mr Feldman: Not where mobile phones in the Burdekin, if the mill could not crush his don't work. cane for some reason—and problems happen; I do not deny that—then the farmer could not Mr KNUTH: Not where mobile phones do claim compensation against the miller. This is not work; that is true. a clear-cut case where National Competition Mr Lucas: What small business did he Policy is not being implemented. work for? I have another example. I wrote a letter to Mr KNUTH: I do not know. I have never Dr Samuel regarding the legislation that I have asked him. witnessed come through this Parliament over Madam Deputy Speaker, I am sorry for the past 18 months. I have written him a the interruptions. You have to control this couple of letters now and I have put all this to crowd over here. 490 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000

Mr Paff: The steel manufacturers union Labor Party. There are plenty of pinkies marched today. amongst this bunch, believe me. My Mr KNUTH: The march today? I do not grandfather would turn in his grave if he saw know anything about the march today. the Labor Party he knew doing what it is doing today. My grandmother had voted Labor all If a Government wants to introduce her life, but she did not vote Labor in the last National Competition Policy, then it has to election. Those opposite are nothing when wear the brunt of it. I am one member who compared to the old Labor Party. A lot of the takes his job fair dinkum. I stand up for small Opposition's voters have woken up to that, business and for the cane farmers in my thank goodness. electorate. They have been given a very hard deal over the past 19 months, since this Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER: Member for Government was elected. I am not going to Burdekin. stand by and allow members of this Mr KNUTH: I am sorry, Madam Deputy Government to bleat out the false pretences Speaker. I will get back to the point. It is the that they are against National Competition interjections— Policy while they are reaping in the benefits of Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now. the tranche assessment payments. Mr KNUTH: I return to the issue at hand, They are going to use it against the the National Competition Policy. It was the Opposition when they are the people who Goss Government which signed that have the power tonight, tomorrow— agreement. Tonight the Government has the whenever—to get rid of it once and for all. If chance to undo the wrongs of the past. There the Beattie Government does stand up tonight is no other way to do that but to throw the and says, "We are going to get rid out of it no policy out. Set an example for Australia by matter how much we lose", then I would say, showing that there is one Government in "They have some gumption after all. They're Australia which is prepared to throw this out fair dinkum", but they will not because they are the door, and maybe the rest will follow. If the a bunch of cowards. They will not do it. They Government threw out National Competition are just standing up on false pretences. They Policy and there was a shortfall in the Budget, will only use this as the same old rhetoric I would be the first to tell my electorate that against the GST, which they themselves will that result is not the fault of the Government introduce as soon as they are in Federal and that the fact is that the Government stood Government, if they get into Federal up against National Competition Policy. But Government. the Government will not do it. The promised Ms Boyle: What? money is too much of a temptation. It is like a Mr KNUTH: If their mate Kim gets little kid chasing candy—they just cannot help elected—he may or may not; his stance on the themselves. GST might turn against him—the fact is that Why should small business in this State the Labor Party will introduce the GST. suffer because the Government will not even Mr Lucas: That's your view. obey the guidelines set down? As the Government has introduced something that Mr KNUTH: Yes, it is a view. will kill the bush, which it is, why can there not Mr Lucas: You're just a National Party be some respite by following some of the apologist. guidelines? At least that way there would be something coming back to those people in the Mr KNUTH: No, I am not. I have nothing bush. But this is the irony of National to do with the National Party. Competition Policy. It has been hijacked. An honourable member interjected. Nothing is given to small business. Nothing is Mr KNUTH: It does not matter. The coming back into their hands. This is a result of member opposite was probably a member of all legislation passing through this Parliament. the Communist Party for all I know. Do not try Nothing is coming back to small business. The to tell me there are no pinkies amongst you. policy has been hijacked so that it favours big My grandfather was a member of the Labor business and multinationals. Party. As I said before, I do not discriminate Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER (Ms Nelson- against big business or multinationals, but fair Carr): Order! I ask the member for Burdekin to is fair. They should pay their taxes just as any stick to the point, please. battler or small business does and they should receive the same treatment through national Mr KNUTH: I am. I will get to it. The fact is competition guidelines as small business does. that my grandfather was a member of the But that is not happening. If someone wants 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 491 to invest in Australia and is creating jobs, I much disempowered by the process. It is also have no problem. I do, however, have a fair to say that areas in the major cities have problem with overseas businesses buying out done reasonably well with National Australian businesses. I have a problem with Competition Policy and that areas on the that. But we need investment, and I will never fringes of cities have done very badly out of it, deny that. as have regional centres and rural and remote What I am saying tonight is that National areas. Competition Policy is very discriminating People are saying, "Enough is enough." against small businesses and the rural sector. Quite frankly, they have had a gutful of It is hurting them. It is killing them. It is not economic experimentation. Quite frankly, being implemented fairly, as it was written National Competition Policy has become down in black and white by Hilmer. If the economic experimentation. We only have to Government cannot implement the policy by cast our mind back a few years to when it following the guidelines, there is a problem. came into being in this country. It came about That is why I wrote this letter to Dr Samuel. I as a consequence of an agreement between have called on him to investigate Government the then Keating Government and the then Acts that have been passed through this Goss Government. I think it is fair to say that House in the past 18 months. most sides of politics thought that there may Mr Springborg: It would be a waste of be some good in it. One thing we have not time writing to him. seen is a significant recognition to date from the political parties to underline the fact that Mr KNUTH: It probably will be. He has there has been a lot of bad about it and that replied once, but nothing has happened. If he we need to do something significant and does not reply, I am going to go to the media substantial to take back possession of the and I am going to expose the fact that agenda. National Competition Policy does not even follow its own guidelines. That is where it is Whilst this Parliament passed a resolution clearly discriminatory. It is easy to get up in this only a year or so ago indicating that the House and say, "National Competition Policy is Governments of Australia should take back the no good. It is bad. We shouldn't have it." But agenda of National Competition Policy, we proving to the public that it is killing Australia is need to send an even stronger message than where it will gain credibility. I am going to do that. One thing we are finding is that once a that; mark my words. I will follow this issue to Government has signed itself up to an the death. I will make sure that something is agreement like this it becomes very difficult to done to give small business and the farming get out of it. It becomes very difficult to seek sector of Queensland a fair go. If the the modifications needed to put the heart back Government does not give them a fair go, I will into Government and the heart back into the do everything I can to campaign against the implementation of the policy. There is time for Labor Government. I will make sure I expose a good, solid review of it and even the Labor Government. If it does not change consideration for throwing it out, because it is a anything tonight or tomorrow or whenever this failed economic experiment. "National debate finishes, then I will continue my Competition Policy", like competition per se, is campaign. a term which is used and abused. It is like Mr SPRINGBORG (Warwick—NPA) "consultation", which is also a term which is (Deputy Leader of the Opposition) (9.05 p.m.): abused. It is with a great deal of pleasure that I Over the past 10 years or so, we as participate in debate on the Competition Policy elected members of Parliament have walked Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill. National away from the notion of our social obligation to Competition Policy, almost 10 years down the the people we represent. In its raw form, track in its implementation, is something which National Competition Policy is totally is causing concern for a lot of people. We inconsistent with the notion of social have had an opportunity to see where National responsibility. A lot of members of Parliament Competition Policy has gone wrong. It is fair to on both sides of this House probably realise say that it has gone wrong in more areas than that, even though at the end of the day we it has gone right, particularly if members may vote differently. A lot of members of represent a rural and regional area of this Parliament feel that they are locked in; they State. In its report into the impact of National feel that they would be the victims of the Competition Policy on areas of the Australian consequences of a Government not economy, the Productivity Commission itself continuing to support National Competition indicated that there were areas that were very Policy. 492 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000

We talk about the tranche payments and a share portfolio of 10 million bonus shares competition payments which are allegedly before they go. That is the sort of situation we made available to the State as a result of are seeing. There is no social responsibility. entering into National Competition Policy. As We saw the precursor of this in the mid- part of the agreement for those payments, 1980s with bank deregulation. What has that Governments go down the track of delivered for people? It has delivered implementing economic reform. I believe that, absolutely nothing for people in rural and at the end of the day, we as a Government regional areas or, I dare say, for a lot of people are no better off economically for entering into who have lost their suburban branches. It has the agreement. I do not think that the delivered nothing for those people. We are Government of Queensland, whether it was trying to encourage people into Internet the Goss Government, the Borbidge banking and phone banking. I admit that I use Government or the Beattie Government, has phone banking because I do not have the any more money in its coffers to be able to chance to go to a bank, but there are a lot of deliver service to Queenslanders as a result of people, such as my mother and father, such National Competition Policy than what it had as a lot of elderly and not so elderly people, prior to National Competition Policy. There is who want to go out there and be able to talk to not one zack. There is no evidence to support people and not deal just with a machine. that there is more money. It is an exercise in robbing Peter to pay Paul. We should never forget that technology brings consequences. The corporate raiders, I mention rail freight agreements—third- the executives who go out there and turn a big party access to our railway lines and those profit, are actually rewarded for the human sorts of things. Where is the evidence that we misery they cause. We should never forget are any better off as a result of forgoing some that. We saw that situation only recently with of the traditional monopoly areas—some regard to Telstra. We saw it with the would argue for Government maintaining Commonwealth Bank. We are seeing that certain monopoly activities and therefore situation with the four pillars policy. deriving revenue—for the sake of competition payments? We are not. We are socially I have never been in favour of the disadvantaged. It is about time we started to privatisation of Telstra. I have never been in sit up and take notice of those sorts of things. favour of the privatisation of essential Government services. I think that is something This is a problem not just for Queensland. very few members on either side of this This is a problem that other jurisdictions Parliament would disagree with. I think most of around the world have been experiencing for a us have a social conscience and a heart. We long time. A couple of years ago I had the have let ourselves be caught up and taken for opportunity to travel through Canada, the US a ride. We are on a treadmill and we have not and Europe. It was very evident at that stage been able to jump off it. That is basically the that globalisation—some would argue that that situation. is the ultimate in competition—was breeding insecurity, and insecurity breeds concern. The other day Telstra announced a record Insecurity breeds political turmoil and then half-yearly profit for any Australian company of breeds insecurity in Government. There is no $2 billion or more, and in the same breath it doubt about that. announced that it will sack maybe 16,000 Australians. That was a disgraceful act. The I was in Canada when General Electric issue there relates to a company being was laying off 12,000 workers. Somewhere partially privatised and therefore accountable else another firm was laying off another so to shareholders while trying to meet a many thousand workers. The executives never community service obligation. That creates a pay for that action. The executives are actually difficulty in itself. Let us not forget that it was rewarded for sacking people. The executives the Labor Party that sold off Qantas. It was the are rewarded for going out there and basically Labor Party that sold off the Commonwealth putting people to the pike. Bank. So nobody is absolutely perfect in this. The actions of some of the major That is the real issue for us to consider here. companies in Australia are an absolute I think it is very difficult when companies disgrace. It is corporate rape. There are are accountable to shareholders. There are corporate raiders in this country who basically two million shareholders sitting around double and treble their exorbitant, watching the stock market, basically hoping extraordinary and immoral salaries, which that the price will go up. There are a lot of might start at $1m and then rise to $3m the other Australians sitting around knowing that very next year. Then they line themselves with the executives who run those companies are 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 493 accountable to the shareholders and that they therefore benchmarking that that should be have to maximise the profit. Of course, that fixed in 12 hours at a cost of $1,200 instead of means fewer people. What is the quickest way $12,000. We have difficulty because we have to cut down on recurrent expenditure? Sack people benchmarking and not understanding people. That is the simple reality. That is the these things. I say to the Federal Government reality in Government and elsewhere. that it is time it had a good, hard look at that We have seen a very deliberate action on sort of thing. the part of Government to suppress people's Basically, we have taken the heart and basic social conscience by making them part responsibility out of Government. If we do not of the decisions. For example, I am sure that a start doing those sorts of things, then I think lot of those shareholders who are opening we will unwind a very good legacy which has their dividend certificates will be thinking, "Is been left in this nation over a long period of this good? It is good for us financially, but is it successive Governments that sought to good for us socially?" We have shifted the develop and build basic essential burden of responsibility for economic and infrastructure. I mention the telephone lines social reform from Government to laid out there. That was done when we had shareholders in those cases. less population and a smaller revenue base I think the privatisation of Telstra, at least than we have today. Yet now we are having in the interim, will be an absolute disaster. That trouble maintaining the lines to the same has come about as a consequence of standards. It is absolutely and completely competition and deregulation. We are going wrong and it is about time we said that enough out there and saying to those people, "It will is enough. be great. You will have an Internet connection If we need an example of another to Mongolia." Those people are only interested disaster, we only have to look at the in having their telephones fixed. deregulation of the fuel industry. We now have sweetheart deals between the bigger retailers The other day a lady in my electorate told in towns and their mates down here, the bulk me that it had taken one month to have her suppliers. In some towns, some retailers are telephone repaired after a lightning strike. able to put petrol through the pump cheaper Telephones are lifelines not only for people in than the person across the road is able to buy the country but also for people in the city. If it for. That is another consequence of someone is half an hour out of town—the deregulation. When we are whipping into our member for Mount Isa and the member for local Woolies or other big service station—the Gregory are a lot further away—and they need a phone for an emergency, as I did on my bigger ones are popping up along the farm the other day, and that line is out, then road—we should just think of the little ones the basic form of communications is gone. that are providing the competition. I think that Until we go about delivering some decent is another disaster. customer service standards for the basic The milk industry is the classic example of infrastructure instead of talking about fast why deregulation is a complete and Internet connections and those sorts of things unmitigated disaster. We need to look at the in rural areas, then I think we have absolutely impact of competition policy reforms on rural lost the plot. and regional Australia. The Productivity Commission report refers to dairy deregulation. People used to have their telephones The report states— fixed in two to three days, but now there are fewer linesmen, there are central "Many submissions from dairy communications and there are people who farmers claimed that fixed farm gate benchmark any and every job that is done. prices for milk were required to prevent This all started in the late 1980s, with the 'middlemen' from capturing the benefits of opening up of telecommunications to deregulation." competition. I am sure the member for Mount There is no doubt about that. It may surprise Isa understands this. people to learn that I am one who believes in Someone rings in with a fault. It may be a a regulated labour market because I believe fault with basic data connection or it may be a that people deserve a fair go. But I also fault on the telephone line which keeps believe in a regulated market in other areas dropping in and out. A person receives the call because it provides stability and certainty as in Brisbane. The responsible officer for that well. particular service division has no idea of the The report states that in Victoria in 1992 difficulty of servicing 10 kilometres of single line deregulation of the milk market beyond the copper cable that was laid 10 years ago and is farm gate was accompanied by an increase in 494 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000 consumer milk prices. The report concludes Mr Sullivan: Only three? You wait till they that retail price deregulation appears to have are teenagers. led to an increase in the price of milk to Mr SPRINGBORG: It is fast going to four; consumers. The report further concludes that it is going up exponentially. A family using a 3- of itself this it not evidence of abuse of market litre bottle of milk will need to find an extra 60c power; it simply indicates that processing and per day. That is the issue. retailing margins have risen to more normal competitive market levels. That is code for I encourage the dairy farmers of this State allowing those people in the middle, who do to form themselves into local cooperatives nothing, to fleece the system. It also allows because I believe that is the only way in which those people who sell the product to fleece the they can attack the market share of the major system. processors and the major retailers. The processors and the retailers are doing their It is a credit to all members of this very best to screw the farmers in order to make Parliament that last year we voted to maintain larger profits. I advise our dairy farmers to form supply management for milk and farm gate themselves into smaller, or even larger, prices in this State. Look at what has cooperatives and niche-market themselves to happened in this case. The price of milk to the small supermarket chains. consumers in this State has increased by up to 23c per litre. How much of that increase has If the farmers themselves are involved in been of benefit to consumers? Not one single the growing of the product, as well as the cent! We have been told from day one since processing and supplying of the product, they retail price deregulation was debated that it will be able to account for that middle margin. would be good for consumers. We were told They will be able to undercut the extortion that we would have cheaper and more which is currently occurring with regard to the competitive milk prices. That is completely existing processors and retailers. In this way, wrong. the farmers will be able to control their own destiny. They will have local consumer loyalty Has the farmer received one more cent? because the local consumers will understand The farmer is the person who goes out and that it is a local product. produces the milk. He is the person who cuts the silage. He is the person who rises at 5 The Minister for Primary Industries has o'clock in the morning to milk his cows. In made much of the $98m which the times of drought the farmer runs at a dead Commonwealth is going to return to the States loss because he cannot afford to feed his as a consequence of dairy deregulation. The stock at a price which gives him a margin Minister also called upon the Commonwealth above the price he receives for his product. to come up with a package. The Commonwealth has come up with another From 1 July this year we will see the price $40m. That is merely a bandaid. I would say the farmer receives for fresh milk decrease that the best thing this Government could do is from 58c per litre to 41c per litre. The result is to allocate that $98m, which is coming into this that the consumer will pay an extra 23c per State in compensation payments, into a pool litre and the farmer will receive a decreased of low interest money which can be made price upon the abolition of the supply available to groups of dairy farmers who wish management farm gate price at the end of this to form themselves into small cooperatives. financial year. How much has gone to the This will allow us to have some decent consumer and the farmer? Absolutely nothing! competition in this State. However, 40c per litre is going to go to the processors and the retailers who are fleecing The former Borbidge Government in this the system. State established a system whereby local government contributions to National The processors and the retailers were not Competition Policy which were returned to the going broke. However, it is well known that the State were in turn returned to local big three—Woolworths, Coles and Franklins— government. It is only fair that that $98m have said for years that, until they can make should be returned to the dairy farmers under the same margin on milk that they make on some sort of proactive positive scheme. I Coke, they are not interested in milk. That is a believe that a scheme which encourages the disgrace. Milk is a basic commodity that goes development of cooperatives, which equals on the table. competition, which equals local control over My family uses a 3-litre bottle of milk a farmers' destiny, would result in turning a day, but we can afford it, whereas a lot of downright negative into a positive coming into other families cannot. My three kids really hook the dairy industry. into it— Time expired. 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 495

Mr ROBERTS (Nudgee—ALP) best interests of the community at large—in a (9.25 p.m.): The outcomes proposed by the way which minimises harm and ensures that Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) benefits are more equitably spread and do not Repeal Bill are a nonsense. However, if it has just accrue to the interests of capital. one positive aspect, it is this: it has provided us National Competition Policy is blamed for with another opportunity to revisit an issue many of the negative impacts of the economic which probably has been one of the most changes sweeping our nation and, indeed, significant economic reforms adopted by across the world. I have no doubt that some of Australian Governments since our Federation. the criticisms are valid—but not all. As I have National Competition Policy has come said many times in this place, I believe that we under a lot of criticism in recent times. Some of have got National Competition Policy wrong on those criticisms are undoubtedly well a number of counts and that it is in need of founded—others are not. I believe that if the significant change and amendment. In order policy had been subjected to the full political to properly debate the impact that National process prior to its being signed off in April Competition Policy is having on our economic 1995, the impacts from its implementation and social life, we need to better understand it. would have been a lot different. A cynical person may take the view that Most people in the community do not National Competition Policy is simply a vehicle really understand the detail of the National to usher in the values of the free market where Competition Policy. What they do understand unfettered competition is paramount. I have is the negative impacts that their local no doubt that that would be the case if a communities are experiencing at the hands of conservative Government sat on the Treasury the inappropriate application of the policy. That benches for too long. Many people consider being said, the National Competition Policy is National Competition Policy as heralding the blamed for a multitude of sins which, if put to wholesale privatisation of public assets due to proper scrutiny, would not stand even the most the enormous commercial risks that exist in the basic of credibility tests. competitive markets in which both private and When this Bill was last debated, it was public sector enterprises now find themselves. interesting to hear the member for Tablelands Whereas the Hilmer report specifically outline that he had been reading contradicts this proposition by stating that the parliamentary debates of the late 1890s and objectives of the policy do not necessarily have early 1900s. The honourable member to be achieved by privatisation, left unchecked discovered that many of the concerns raised National Competition Policy has the potential about the impact of competition, imports, to pressure Governments down this path. I am deregulation, etc., are being raised now as pleased to say that the Labor Government at criticism of National Competition Policy. the State level here in Queensland, and I do not offer myself as an apologist for or indeed local authorities such as the Brisbane defender of National Competition Policy—in City Council, are standing firm on this issue, fact, to the contrary. Since my election in resisting this pressure and taking steps to 1995, I have probably stood in this place on ensure the viability of publicly owned more occasions than most members and enterprises within their control. criticised it. Despite my criticisms, I find it A more charitable view of National difficult to subscribe to the simplistic Competition Policy is that it is a mechanism to proposition to abolish the Competition Reform manage the enormous economic changes Act. In fact, as has been outlined by the that are occurring throughout the world and Treasurer, the simple abolition of this Act within our nation. That enormous change has would cause more damage than the so-called been driven not by National Competition Policy benefits it seeks to accomplish. but by new technologies, new discoveries, There is no doubt that National expanding knowledge, improvements in Competition Policy is in need of significant educational standards and the propensity of reform. Later in this speech I will outline some economic activity to extend beyond State and of the areas where I believe significant reform national boundaries. There is probably some is required. truth in both of those views. As the member for Tablelands outlined in Before examining the key elements of his speech, the world is changing—and National Competition Policy, it is important to changing rapidly. Change has an impact on understand that major changes to the policy individuals and communities, and one of the can occur only if the original agreements great challenges of Parliaments and signed by all Governments back in April 1995 Governments is to manage that change in the are amended. This highlights the 496 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000 ineffectiveness of this Bill and the fact that laws and the application and use of these agreements, which are the source of community service obligations. I believe that much of the problems with National where an elected Government makes a Competition Policy, rarely come under close decision, and it is declared to be in the public scrutiny. There are three key agreements that interest, then barring proper constitutional establish the guidelines being followed by all challenge that decision should not attract States in the implementation of National penalties such as those that currently are Competition Policy reforms. The first is the being threatened and implied in the conduct code agreement which, among other implementation of National Competition Policy things, ensures that each State passes by bodies such as the National Competition legislation to apply the relevant sections of the Council. Trade Practices Act to all Government There is also the need to curb the almost businesses. The effect of this Bill before the House tonight would be to abolish those unfettered powers of the National Competition provisions in the Competition Policy Reform Council. In recent times, we have seen a few Act. As part of the reforms, the Trade Practices clear examples of this body overstepping the Act also established the two oversighting mark. In New South Wales, the National bodies, the Australian Competition and Competition Council threatened the Consumer Commission and the National Government with a financial penalty for not meeting its expectations in the rice marketing Competition Council. An important element of industry. In Queensland, the National the conduct code agreement is that it provides Competition Council threatened to withhold that, although the States can enact payments because the Government proposed exemptions from competition laws, such to build a dam that the council believed was decisions can be overruled by the not economically viable. Commonwealth. This highlights one significant problem with the policy in that it impinges There is also a need for a stronger public directly upon the sovereign rights of the State benefit test that gives more prominence to the to determine its own destiny in matters that fall social impacts on communities. In this regard, I within its jurisdiction. am pleased that the Queensland Labor Secondly, the competition principles Government is leading the way in the national agreement essentially outlines the key push to strengthen the public benefit test. New elements of the policy and the general terms guidelines are now available in Queensland, of the public benefit test. Its aim is to facilitate and they are available publicly. Previously, the creation of competitive markets within they were almost a State secret and were held which Government enterprises also operate. It in the bowels of Treasury. Recent changes to includes principles underpinning the main the Queensland public benefit test have elements of the policy, including third-party increased significantly its capacity to deal fairly access and competitive neutrality. with the social impacts of proposed changes within competitive markets. A good recent Thirdly, the agreement to implement the example of a more moderate application of National Competition Policy reforms outlines this test was revealed in the review of liquor how the first, second and third competition licensing laws. payments will be made by the Commonwealth to the States. Prior to each payment being Specific changes that have been made to approved, the National Competition Council, the public benefit test guidelines include the an unelected, ideologically driven organisation, explicit inclusion of an employment impact assesses each State's performance against statement; a new methodology for a social the requirements of the competition impact statement; a requirement for the agreements and makes recommendations as Government's seven key priority outcomes, to whether the payments will be made or the including jobs growth, to be considered; and moneys withheld. also a new preface, which has been added to highlight and assist in interpreting the intent of Earlier I mentioned that a number of the public benefit guidelines. That has been changes could be made to National signed off by the Premier and Treasurer. Competition Policy that would address many of the valid criticisms that have been made about There is also a need to challenge and, in its implementations. Some of those include fact, overturn the dogmatic assumption the need for States to have more discretion in inherent in National Competition Policy that its implementation. Specifically, there is a need competition is always good and regulation is for the sovereignty of elected Governments to bad. Currently, the competition policy principles be respected in terms of decisions about agreements provide that if the benefits of a exempting certain activities from competition particular regulation or a policy cannot be 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 497 shown to outweigh the costs, then it should be delivery are making it almost impossible to withdrawn. There is little or no emphasis on the maintain some of the old monopolies that proposition that the competitive model being Governments had in areas such as public proposed has to demonstrate first that it has transport, electricity and telecommunications. It more merit or better outcomes than the is a reasonable proposition that Government existing method. In summary, we should enterprises operating in markets with reverse the onus of proof back on to the significant private sector involvement do so in competitive model being proposed. a fair way. I say this subject to the proviso that Currently, we are in the process nationally Governments should be able to act in the of reviewing those agreements to which I have overall public interest which, on some referred. Once again, I am pleased to occasions, may breach that general principle. acknowledge the significant endeavours of the As I have indicated earlier, one way of Queensland Labor Government in leading the minimising the harsher aspects of National charge nationally in seeking to humanise the Competition Policy is via the implementation of harsher aspects of this policy. However, it is a a stronger public benefit test. difficult row to hoe, as any changes will require The second element of National the agreement of all of the States, the Competition Policy involves the review of Territories and the Commonwealth. If ever we regulation which unjustifiably restricts needed a Beazley-led Labor Government at competition. I have already stated my view the Federal level, it is now, because a Labor that the onus of proof on this issue needs to Federal Government is the only real hope of be reversed. Rather than just having to prove winding back some of the excesses that have that the benefits of the regulation outweigh the been identified through the implementation of costs, it should also have to be shown that the National Competition Policy. application of competition rules will deliver There are six separate elements of more favourable outcomes. That said, it is National Competition Policy, each with its own interesting that anyone would want to abolish distinctive features and each capable of being what is a perfectly sensible undertaking of a modified to achieve the objectives that I think responsible Government, which is an inherent we desire. As indicated earlier, the catalyst for element of this Bill. change for these elements rests principally on The regular reviewing of regulations and the States and can occur only if all of the legislation to ensure that it is still valid and States, the Territories and the Commonwealth appropriate makes good sense. However, this agree on renegotiating key features of the element of National Competition Policy is one National Competition Policy agreements. that does need further amendment, The first element of the policy involves the particularly to enable social considerations to limiting of anti-competitive conduct of firms. play a more important part of the review That is effectively achieved—via the Act that process. A stronger and more relevant public this legislation seeks to abolish—by the benefit test as developed by the Beattie application of the Trade Practices Act to both Government has assisted in lessening the private and public sector business activities impacts of what is otherwise a sensible activity except where a specific exemption is applied. of Governments to undertake. The third significant element of National The facts are that competition law of that Competition Policy is reform of public utilities to nature has been a part of Australian law since facilitate competition. An example of where the turn of the century. In fact, in 1906, the this has occurred is the electricity industry. This Federal Parliament passed laws that prohibited is an area where there have been some the private monopolisation of markets or difficulties, as enterprises have restructured activities that restricted trade or commerce. themselves to compete in markets where the The significant change brought about under private sector has been expanding. It is an National Competition Policy reforms was the area where we need to focus more attention, broadening of those laws' application to cover particularly on ensuring that employment public sector enterprises—a need created to impacts are minimised or eliminated wherever some extent by the increasing propensity of possible. Where there is some impact, we public and private enterprises to compete in need to be putting more resources into markets such as electricity and supporting the workers involved. I agree with telecommunications. the concerns expressed by the Senate Select The reality is that the private and public Committee on the Socioeconomic sector are increasingly participating in and Consequences of National Competition Policy competing within the same markets. that there has not been enough effort put into Technology and worldwide trends in service structural adjustment and transitional 498 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000 agreements in those areas where change has market over a period. These factors make the had significant impacts. setting of a fair price almost impossible and, in There is another issue that I believe is not my view, place the owner of the asset—in this catered for in the current National Competition case and in the majority of cases the Policy principles. I believe the State should be Government—and its employees at a able to use its size and its ownership of major significant disadvantage. public utilities where it is in the public interest We should take note of the beating that and for the public good. In fact, where a Telstra is taking as a result of competitors Government decides that it is in the public accessing its network at bargain basement interest for it to retain ownership of an asset prices without the need to fund the actual cost and operate within a particular market, then of establishing the network in the first instance. National Competition Policy should allow I believe this is a major flaw in third-party measures to be implemented to protect the access arrangements, which are in need of Government's interest in that asset without review and significant change. penalty. I am not arguing that such enterprises should be allowed to be inefficient providers of The fifth element of National Competition a service but that the Government should be Policy relates to putting in place mechanisms able to implement measures to protect such to control monopoly pricing behaviour of firms entities from unreasonable competitive forces and Government enterprises. Once again, it is where it is in the public interest to do so. Such surprising that the proponents of this Bill would needs may arise from matters such as wish to abolish this sensible element. I would employment issues and regional development have thought it was at least recognised by objectives of a Government. both sides of this debate that that was at least one positive element of National Competition The fourth element of National Policy. Competition Policy that this Bill seeks to abolish is to allow third-party access to The sixth and final element involves the significant and essential infrastructure. fostering of competitive neutrality between Whereas I have some concerns about the Government and private providers of services. extent to which a third-party regime can be fair I have a particular problem with the practical to the Government owners of significant application of this element. It may be possible infrastructure, I do accept that a fair and formal to duplicate cost factors, such as taxation access process is a desirable objective. It obligations, etc., on public sector businesses. makes sense to have a regime which will allow However, it is never possible to balance the other providers to access a monopoly asset enormous community service obligations and which would be ridiculous to duplicate in other accountability mechanisms that public sector circumstances. However, the access provisions agencies are required to undertake—for need to be fair, and the overall interests of the example, costs associated with the freedom of asset owner and its employees need to be information, additional consultation and given a high priority. accountability requirements compared with the relative immunity many in the private sector In most commercial transactions, prices have; the fact that Governments often commit for a service take into account a number of to employment level strategies which the factors—development and capital construction private sector would never adhere to; and the costs, operating costs, maintenance, profit list goes on. As I hinted earlier, this Bill misses margins and the expected patronage of the the point and will not achieve any significant service over its economic life. In a normal change to the implementation of National commercial environment, it is possible to Competition Policy. predict these inputs and charge accordingly. However, such analyses are almost impossible Time expired. in the case of major infrastructure, such as Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM (Gladstone—IND) railways and electricity grids. (9.45 p.m.): I rise tonight to speak on this I believe it is almost impossible to know National Competition Policy Bill. National what is a fair price for a third party to use the Competition Policy has been the whipping boy facility. Firstly, the assets were not built in a for all the ills in business for a long time, and competitive environment and were not not without some justification. The paradigm intended to deliver profits but were built to shift which ensued in business both deliver essential services. Secondly, it is not operationally and structurally as a result of the possible to predict the level of third-party introduction of National Competition Policy has access and, accordingly, the level of income seen significant detrimental effects, particularly that could be generated in a commercial in rural Queensland and in other States. 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 499

In researching information on National "... some state departments had Competition Policy, I looked through what suggested the system of cypress forest some more experienced and more eminent allocation to local millers was in breach of people in public life have said about National the Trade Practices Act. They proposed Competition Policy. The leader of the coalition, that to comply with National Competition Mr Borbidge, said in July last year that— Policy the $30m industry would have to "... it was vital that the message of the be opened up to public tender. That disastrous impact of NCP on the bush would inevitably result in the industry was hammered home to the three being taken out of the hands of local Commissioners conducting the review. operators. The right to cut timber from state-owned forests would most likely be This review was initiated through the taken over by a major timber processor, efforts of the National Party and it is creating monopoly control of the essential that the Commissioners are industry ... An independent consultant's made fully aware of the impact NCP is report by Sinclair Knight Merz found the having on the bush. competition process would decimate a The Commission's own draft report number of western communities reliant on recognises the fact that big business and the cypress industry. The 14 towns metropolitan areas are the major mentioned in the report are Inglewood, beneficiaries of NCP. Millmerran, Cecil Plains, Chinchilla, Miles, Taroom, Wandoan, Injune, Roma, What is not so plainly stated is the Augathella, Mitchell, Mungallala, Dulacca- fact that rural and regional areas, and North and Surat. In some of the towns the small business, are bearing most of the number of people supported by the cost and hardship associated with the cypress industry makes up more than half implementation of NCP." the adult population. In the township of In the Courier-Mail in July the editorial read— Cecil Plains, 50 people out of a "The trouble with the way the population of 250 are employed in the National Competition Council operates in industry. The wages of those employed in Queensland is that you cannot see the the industry support 150 people ... State policy for the politics. If one is to believe Primary Industries Minister Henry the Beattie Government, it cannot build Palaszczuk has indicated jobs will take an off-stream water storage dam because precedence over competition policy." the NCC wants it to conform to a set of If there is one repeated theme that rules drawn up by a Melbourne star comes through when competition policy chamber of free marketeers. The requires these small rural industries to have proposed dam—first mooted by the Goss regard for the NCP principles it is that jobs and government and supported by the the community do not take precedence at all; Coalition in office—would assist cotton they become the fodder for the application of growers in south-west Queensland. It is NCP. Quite apart from the principles espoused opposed by environmentalists. The NCC by the previous speaker—and I congratulate has said Queensland's processes for the honourable member on the quality of his justifying the dam fail to meet national speech—and in spite of the principles that are water policy standards agreed to in 1995, sound in NCP, the weakness is that a and the Commonwealth has therefore philosophy is taking precedence over the decided to cut our competition dividend people we are supposed to be here to help, by $15 million." that is, the communities of Queensland, in particular rural and regional Queensland. So two successive Governments of two quite diverse political persuasions believed that In a report last year, Tony Koch stated— a project was good for this State. The NCC, a "The economic rationalists within the Melbourne star chamber of free marketeers, Goss Government who insisted country as it was described in this editorial, has courthouses and railways be closed, threatened—and at this point successfully effectively hung an albatross around the threatened—that if the dam went ahead $15m neck of that administration which it was would be lost to the State. So NCP has also unable to discard. had an impact on decision making in a Now Premier Peter Beattie faces a significant way. similar conundrum which, if he does not Again, an article in the Courier-Mail in act decisively, will prove just as early 1999 stated that— damaging." 500 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000

He went on to speak about cypress harvesting communities are put ahead of economic and the number of towns that will be ideology." decimated. He stated— Again, I note the previous speaker's well "The philosophy of national researched speech. Some of the principles of competition policy is sound, but its broad- National Competition Policy may be sound, but brush application is neither sensible nor the application to our communities has seen supportable." an enormous negative impact not only on the Again, another Courier-Mail article stated— business structure but also on families. There have been demonstrations outside Parliament "We're seeing a fundamental House against both sides of politics in power. decoupling between the cities and the A lot but not all of the protests have been bush ... about the downstream impacts of National This"— Competition Policy applied in a business report on NCP— arena. The theory might be fine, but the practical application is where people come "shows the gap is getting wider and much undone. quicker." In that article, the Local Government I appreciate the briefings given on this Bill Association's Executive Director, Greg Hallam, concerning the Government's perspective. In commented about the impact of NCP on local relation to this Bill the Government has councils, including the regional areas of Wide stated— Bay/Burnett, the Darling Downs, and south "The government is concerned about west and central Queensland. The criticisms the effects NCP is having on the delivery and concerns expressed by people are very of services to the community and much across-the-board. In a media statement employment impact. The 5 year review is the leader of the coalition stated— due in April 2000 and it will focus on this "The future of the National area of concern." Competition Council and its Chairman, Eventually, there will be a vote on this Bill. I Graham Samuel, has been questioned have no doubt which way the vote will go. I following the release of a draft report to a hope the vote is close, because I think that Senate select committee which concluded would send an important message, in light of National Competition Policy ... had been the imminent review, that it is appropriate for applied in a 'blind and dogmatic' way." NCP to be reviewed, that it is important that in However, coalition members are not the only the application of this theory the impact of the ones who have concerns about the application policy on people's lives is given significant of NCP. In a media release from July last year, consideration. the Treasurer of Queensland, Mr Hamill, In July last year it was reported that stated— Queensland Premier Peter Beattie said that he "New Federal Agricultural Minister would continue to fight against any negative Warren Truss must stand up for rural impacts of the National Competition Council's Queensland in the face of ceaseless decisions while waiting for next year's review. attacks on the farm sector by the National He stated— Competition Council ... "There will be reviews into the ... Competition Principles Agreement and Mr Truss has two simple alternatives the Agreement to implement National as Agriculture Minister and a National Competition Policy and Related Reforms." Party MP; he either works to represent the He made that comment at a leader's forum, at interests of his constituents in the rural which he decided to express concern about sector and stands up to the NCC and the application of some aspects of the Federal Treasurer Peter Costello; or he National Competition Council's work, and it was sells his political soul out to unbridled decided that a review would occur this year. economic rationalism." We have heard from previous speakers In October last year, one of the Treasurer's about the impact of NCP on Telstra, the dairy press releases stated— industry, the sugar industry, the rice industry "The Queensland Government had and local government works. When the NCP released tough new guidelines for the was first introduced, right across Queensland implementation of competition policy to councils were at a loss to know how it would ensure that the interests of people and affect them. Ultimately, a tiered structure was 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 501 put in place so that only some councils had to competitively is a misnomer, but that view has apply. been espoused in the context of NCP. Mr Johnson: Thanks to a coalition Another issue raised has been that of the Government. public benefit test. We had direct experience Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: Yes. But until of the public benefit test when it came to an that was finalised councils, both large and examination of the Gladstone Area Water small, could see their work force being Board and Awoonga Dam. An outside decimated. Such work forces were necessary consultant won the tender to carry out that not just for the construction of roads as part of public benefit test. Eventually, I got hold of a capital works projects; they were essential so copy of the documents that purported to that there was at least a base maintenance attach to Awoonga Dam. The group had three crew available to cover the geographical area or four other public benefit tests that it used in of the council so that when there were natural the context of other water boards. This was a disasters—and in rural Queensland that public benefit test to see whether the happens whenever there is a decent storm— Gladstone Area Water Board sank or swam. and roads, bridges and causeways were cut One of the documents was about an inch there could be a quick response. thick. Throughout the document they replaced the words "Sydney Area Water Board" with the The roads are the artery for the rural words "Gladstone Area Water Board". The sector. Until the roads are re-established, the documents noted issues that the water rural industries are at a standstill. What impoundment addressed. Consistently councils were faced with was the spectre of not throughout Gladstone's report it was stated being able to sustain a maintenance crew or a that it was part of a flood mitigation scheme. It capital works crew for a full 12 months. has never been part of a flood mitigation However, they would need a maintenance scheme. It was built for urban and industrial crew and an emergency maintenance crew for water use. If anything, it has had negative the times when there was a hiatus in the downstream impacts on the Boyne River. weather. Local authorities experienced a lot of That was the public benefit test. It was heartburn in coming to a point at which they flawed in so many places it was hard to felt comfortable that they could achieve that believe. This was supposed to be a credible balance—more so in the rural areas of the document. It was on the basis of that State and not so much in the urban areas— document that decisions were made about and they could get in contractors fairly quickly. whether the Gladstone Area Water Board was In common with one of the previous commercialised, corporatised, sanitised or speakers, I am not defending anybody— homogenised. All that has happened is that it whether it be a council or a State Government was required to be commercialised. Debt department—who artificially inflates their neutrality fees were supposed to be returned prices, whether it is a sale to a consumer or to the two local entities who are the major whether it is a tender for a job. It has always shareholders in the water board. That has not astounded me, for example, that State occurred. The ball game changed and the Government electricity generators, railways Treasurer now requires that that debt neutrality and other entities that have been thrown to fee be returned to Government so that, out of the wolves under the guise of NCP perform so all the water boards in Queensland, our poorly in the competition stakes. I believe that community is disadvantaged. Much of that the work forces of State entities are as good decision making was based on this public as those anywhere. benefits test. I think those consultants who I speak with the officers of QR in my area. conducted that test should hang their heads in They are a brilliant bunch of fellas. They work shame and never tender for that type of hard. I would not like to be out there—and documentation again because they are not they do not do this so much now—busting a competent to do it. gut putting spikes into railway lines or pulling As far as NCP is concerned, the conduct, them out, putting new aggregate under the content and qualitative data of public benefits sleepers or replacing timber sleepers with tests are not in any way structured to concrete sleepers. They are hardworking genuinely address the social and economic people. I believe that they can perform as well impacts of NCP on communities. My as any workers in private enterprise, admittedly experience is mainly with rural and regional as long as they are operating under the same Queensland. I assume that the principles regime. To say that State strategic apply in the same way to urban Queensland. infrastructure has to be laid on the altar of NCP They are not there to protect the community, because State entities cannot perform yet that is what they are purported to do. That 502 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000 is supposed to be the saviour for rural chemist, the butcher and the baker. NCP will Queensland, for the community, for the undermine and absolutely demolish small population, when it comes to NCP. business not only in Queensland but across I would like to go back to just a couple Australia. more quotes in the few minutes I have left. In Finally, in the past Premier Beattie has July 1999 an article in the Courier-Mail said that there has to be a rejig of competition, stated— as the heading of this article states. It says— "Peter Beattie is at his populist best "Mr Beattie said his Labor Party, when he rants about national competition despite endorsing the reforms in the early policy, as he did in the columns of this 1990s, now believed there was a need for paper yesterday. Many Queenslanders tougher public benefits tests to be share his sentiments, fearing what is attached to any reform proposal to generally an unexplained policy and using consider the social and employment it as a scapegoat for just about every ill, impacts. especially in rural and regional areas. But, He said some NCP changes had cost unlike other Queenslanders, Mr Beattie too many jobs and damaged has the power to do something about it." communities, particularly in rural and I will not read the next bit because it is a bit regional areas." scathing. The contribution of the member for City Country Alliance members: Go on, Nudgee again deserves commendation. I read it. would be interested in the proponent of this Bill Mrs LIZ CUNNINGHAM: No. commenting in this House on the legal status of the Bill, that is, can NCP legally be It is a serious issue, and when we look unwound? I believe, however, that given an back through what has been said by all parties opportunity to vote, the majority of people in in this Parliament and in other Parliaments, we my community would support the unravelling see that it is one on which there is agreement. of NCP and, more particularly, those damaging Both sides agree that NCP has done untold aspects. I would like to close with one more damage to our community. Whether it is the quote. It states— specific principles or whether it is the application of those principles, businesses, "The monster is not Canberra or a shareholders in those businesses and families body like the National Competition Council have suffered because of it. If there is a but economic rationalism itself, which problem, then fix it; do not just talk about it. apparently demands the sacrifice of humanity to the new god—economics. In spite of the NCP, Australia still has one The servant has become the supreme of the highest levels of major conglomerate master." domination—and I am thinking of the supermarket area. So if NCP is going to apply, That is from Mr Short from Bethania. it should apply to that area as well. Rather Mr JOHNSON (Gregory—NPA) than creating monopolies, which is what NCP (10.05 p.m.): In common with many others in is effectively doing, it should be ensuring that this House, I have some serious concerns monopolies are not created. It was, after all, regarding implications of National Competition the intention of the National Competition Policy Policy. Since day one, I have probably been to stop that. one of the most vocal members of this House I commend the Labor Government for in opposition to this regime. I think the adopting the liquor licensing recommendations important thing to remember here—and I like which did retain the monopoly of bottle shops to remind members on the other side of the and hotels in relation to liquor sales. I think it House of this—is that, if we go back to April has done a wonderful thing. Some industries, 1995, we find that the Goss administration such as chemists and newsagencies, and signed off with the Keating administration in some niche markets have to be protected to embracing National Competition Policy. By ensure the survival of communities and small embracing that, I have to wonder whether they towns. I have said in this Chamber before that, ever knew what National Competition Policy when it comes to the local judo club raffles, the was going to do to the fabric of society in our local Girl in a Million raffle or any of the other Queensland communities, our Australian sports raffles or the trophies for the local golf communities. club, honourable members should have a look When we talk about NCP, we talk about and see who the donors are. I can assure what it means. I say to honourable members them that it is not Woolworths; it is the tonight: National Competition Policy— 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 503 competition. Okay, we will talk about Mr Feldman: And all those unemployed. competition. Competition is healthy wherever Mr JOHNSON: I take the interjection from we are. We must have competition, but the honourable member for Caboolture. I will competition has to be entered into in its right come to that directly. That is a very good point. phase so that it is fair to all and sundry no The fact is that, from time to time, we all make matter where they are. I thought that, at the mistakes. We are all guilty of making mistakes, last sitting, the member for Whitsunday—I do but we also have to be big enough to admit not think he is in the House tonight—gave an that we have made mistakes. We have to be excellent account of how it affects the fabric of big enough to stand up and say, "We made society and communities right throughout the that mistake. We are going to address it. We length and breadth of this State. The point I apologise if it has caused anybody heartache make is that it is immoral as it virtually crucifies and concern." and penalises the very essence of society. The fact is that Queensland is a vast, When NCP was adopted, we saw decentralised State that enjoys a high academia creep into decision making in this standard of living and a quality of life that is nation as a whole and in this State. I know that second to none in the Commonwealth of the Goss Labor Government embraced it. It Australia. We are, however, a sparsely ran with it; it thought that it was a great thing. populated State and do not have the We talked about the $2.3 billion over 10 years economies of scale to be able to compete on that Queensland was entitled to. However, we price alone, particularly in relation to did not think about the ramifications of what manufactured products. I heard the Deputy that was going to do to the society of Premier talk in this House this morning about Queensland. It seems to me that we may manufactured products. A few points should have fallen into the financial trap of believing be taken from that. Whilst I do not agree with that the only criterion by which we should everything the Deputy Premier says, there are judge the worth of an enterprise is by the price a lot of things I do agree with. of its products. Then again we come back to the same old scenario. I think that we have In relation to manufacturing at home in developed a K mart mentality and ignored the Queensland, at the moment some merits of a Myer approach. I think that is Queensland Rail contracts are going out of the exactly and precisely what we see here with State. There was a march on Parliament this National Competition Policy. I am saying House today by approximately 800 people that there are values other than price alone from the manufacturing industry. I bet Dave that we should consider in determining what is Harrison is not happy with what is happening in best for Queensland and for Queenslanders. the manufacturing industry in this State at the moment. The point I make here is this: who do Again, I come back to Queenslanders. we look after? I am a firm believer that charity We talk about the fabric of society; we talk starts at home, and everybody in this House about small business, and the member for would agree with that. National Competition Gladstone just elaborated on that one Policy certainly does not allow for charity to moment ago—the butcher, the baker, the local start at home. Who does national competition garage operators and all those other local cater for? It caters for big business. They take businesses. I see my colleague the member the cream off every exercise. for Mount Isa and Honourable Minister for Mines and Energy sitting across the Chamber. Mr Springborg: Big executives. He and I, along with the member for Fitzroy, Mr JOHNSON: Absolutely, the big end of the member for Callide, the member for town. Last year or the year before a very Western Downs, the member for Burnett, the successful businessman said to me, member for Warwick and some of our "Vaughan, the most important fact to colleagues up the back, represent rural remember is to look after small business, electorates—electorates that depend on the mate. If you look after small business, big viability of small business and the viability of business will look after itself." No truer words the people who live in those electorates. At the were ever said. That came from the mouth of same time, it comes back to the one issue— one of Queensland's most successful the people factor. businessmen. That man is still a successful I often wonder whether, if Fred Hilmer businessman in Queensland today. We have could relive the moment again when he woke to take note of what he said. up one morning from a dream and decided I congratulate the two new members in that he would invent the National Competition the House, the member for Woodridge and Council, he would see it as a benefit to the member for Bundamba, for their maiden Queensland and Australia. speeches this evening. I want to dwell on one 504 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000 thing the member for Woodridge, Mike Kaiser, comes into this category. Those shires in mentioned, and that is globalisation. The outback and remote areas have tender member for Woodridge made mention of it exemption sole invitees so they can carry out and I want to elaborate on it. While the Beattie that work themselves. Those shires are able to Government is talking about the Smart State carry out that work because most of those concept, we should also talk about exactly shires are the only employers in some of those what globalisation means. Who are the big rural centres. players and winners in globalisation? Those Mr Dalgleish: And they train apprentices, who can access that technology are the too. winners. The ones who cannot access that technology are not the winners, they are the Mr JOHNSON: The member has a point. losers. The majority of our constituents are the They do train apprentices, whether they be losers. diesel fitters, carpenters, plumbers or whatever. A lot of those young people never We have to remember that many small want to leave those centres. They want to give businesspeople are certainly not going to be a lifetime commitment to those centres. It is the beneficiaries of globalisation. We know paramount that we embrace that concept. that many primary producers and mining organisations in Queensland lead the world in I was in Western Australia just before relation to efficiencies they have developed. Christmas. I met with the current Minister for But do members opposite believe for one Transport in that State, the Honourable Murray minute that we should be able to compete with Criddle. He said, "How the other States in this wages and working conditions in nation did not embrace your concept in underdeveloped nations? I think not. Queensland I'll never know. We are jealous of Therefore, I believe that the NCP is flawed in what you've done, because what you've done that its application has been too narrow and is save your local authorities from total there has not been sufficient emphasis on how demolition through NCP." We are proud of that we can maintain the quality of life we enjoy in fact. The big local governments such as Queensland, or, should I say, we used to Brisbane, the Gold Coast, Townsville, Cairns enjoy in Queensland. and the shire of Mount Isa— Dr Prenzler: And it's being run by Mr McGrady: The City of Mount Isa. academics. Mr JOHNSON:—the City of Mount Isa— Mr JOHNSON: That is exactly it. I said are those that can tender and are the big 18, that earlier. We have to find a balance in the as we call them. We talk about the people, the age-old battle between efficiency and social issues and the need to be fair to all yet effectiveness where effectiveness means an let big business take the cream. I mentioned effective economic framework. The that before, and I want to come back to it. conventional model of trying to find this balance is to identify community service In some notable areas of deregulation it obligations and to fund them separately so seems that the impact upon the community that these costs are transparent, allowing an has been sacrificed on the altar of economic rationalism. We only need to look at informed judgment about their value to be Queensland Rail. What a great success story made when Budgets are considered. These that is for Queensland. Some 15,000-odd costs can also be removed from the Queenslanders are still employed in that operational aspects of the enterprise so that enterprise. We need only look at the valid benchmarks relating to the efficiency can operations of the Townsville workshops that a be made with comparable enterprises. couple of years ago put on line the great I now turn to the issue of local South Pacific Express. That was world-class government. The honourable member for workmanship carried out by workmen in the Gladstone touched on the subject of local Townsville railway workshops. I have seen the government. One of the success stories of the Redbank railway workshops at Ipswich building Borbidge/Sheldon coalition Government was the long container wagons for National Rail. that we had the guts to stand up to NCP and There are five in a set. How long do members say, "We are putting in place in this State a think it took those fellows in Ipswich to build a zonal system for our local governments." We set of those wagons? It took them five days. did exactly and precisely that. That is top-class workmanship by Mr Littleproud: You're dead right. Queenslanders for National Rail. Mr JOHNSON: Absolutely. I take the Under National Competition Policy, a lot of interjection from the member for Western these jobs have been eroded. I heard the new Downs. He understands fully because he member for Bundamba in her maiden speech 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 505 refer to tradespeople in her electorate losing blown out to $750m because of some of the their jobs. That, again, comes back to the programs put in place. Redbank railway workshops in Ipswich, which If we do not have those community has some of the best personnel and best service obligations we will be paying probably tradesmen working in the country at this $10 a head to take a ride on the urban trains moment. We have seen what has happened here in Brisbane, $200 a tonne to get our with EDI, Evans Deakin Industries, over the freight to the bush or $2,000 a K wagon to get past couple of weeks. A number of their our bullocks from Quilpie, Winton or Cloncurry personnel have been paid off. Again, it comes to the coast. We have to put in place a back to the old issue of competition. When I program that will benefit those areas. At the say "competition", we have to make absolutely same time, we cannot forget for one minute certain that our business, whether it is small that Queensland is virtually a primary business or big business, is sacred on the soil producing State. We are price takers, not price of Queensland and our people are sacred in makers. their employment strategies. This whole agenda has to be revisited. If we do not revisit It is the minority of the population living in it, Queensland will be the loser. those isolated, remote and regional areas that provide the employment generation capacity I ask honourable members to look at for the people who live on the eastern where we are with the milk industry. I wonder if seaboard of this State. Our mining industry Fred Hilmer is paying an extra 23c a litre for and our primary production through the rural milk in Canberra or wherever he may be industries are the things that create that tonight. He could not give a continental about development. Take a load of, say, 1,000 the price of milk because he is probably on a bullocks out of Quilpie. Those 1,000 bullocks couple of hundred grand a year. will create 3,000 jobs for 3,000 men for one Opposition members: And the rest. day here in Brisbane. That is the extent of the Mr JOHNSON: And the rest, as my job generating factor. colleagues the members for Burnett and Under National Competition Policy a lot of Western Downs just said. Who is being hurt by this has been totally disregarded. We have to this increase of 23c a litre for milk? It is hurting think about not further penalising these rural the little people. This is a corrupt system. It is a communities. I have taken this matter up with policy that is not working. It has to be revisited my Federal colleagues on numerous by all Governments, both State and Federal. I occasions. This situation is not working to the note that the Honourable Tony McGrady is in benefit of Australia. It is not working to the the House tonight. I just hope he can benefit of the majority of Australians; it is persuade his Cabinet colleagues to revisit this benefiting big business. piece of legislation and look at the I have no hesitation in saying that the taxi ramifications for Queensland. industry in this State is second to none. I As I have said before, we have to be challenge anyone on the other side of the absolutely certain that we get this right. I refer House to show me a better example of a to what the Keating Government did five years private enterprise public transport than the ago. We saw the deregulation of the banking Queensland taxi industry. The investments industry. Who has the banking industry hurt? It some of those cabbies have made are quite has hurt ordinary Queenslanders. There is a large. Some of those people have four cabs' four pillar policy of banking in this nation, and worth, or $800,000. That is their the shareholders are the beneficiaries. They superannuation policy. At the end of the day, if are the ones the executives are playing to. we are going to have deregulation because of The ordinary mums and dads in the street, this foolish, stupid regime that Fred Hilmer has who probably make up 95% of the population, thought up, we will kill off the superannuation are the ones who are making the supreme policies and the private enterprise ideal of sacrifice. many successful Queensland businesspeople I make reference to Queensland Rail and who have driven cabs for 18 or 20 hours a day to community service obligations. The budget I to try to get an honest quid so that they can inherited when I became Minister for Transport do the right thing in their retirement. contained around $650m per annum for I believe what we are seeing is community service obligations. We got that deregulation for deregulation's sake. What has back to $500m in the third year of that budget. been ignored once again are the people I note that under the current Government the whom we represent here in this House. I do community service obligation budget has not believe we should continue to support this 506 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000 discredited concept. I appeal to everybody in under National Competition Policy. The this House to adopt that agenda. linchpin, the foundation, was a public benefit Time expired. test. A public benefit test refers to benefit for the public. In other words, competition will not Mrs SHELDON (Caloundra—LP) be introduced into a business, a profession or (10.25 p.m.): I rise tonight to address the issue in rural communities—right across the of National Competition Policy and the spectrum—if it does not satisfy the public National Competition Council. I think we need benefit test. This applies to everyone, be they to look at some of the history of this. I in a small business in a regional or country introduced the legislation to which this Bill town, or indeed in business in a city. It applies relates into the Parliament in 1996. The same to everybody. So the public benefit test was Bill had been introduced to this place in the underlying linchpin in this. If it could not be November 1995 by the previous Labor demonstrated that there was a public benefit, Government but it was never debated by the then the competition policy rules and regimes House. One could say that Mr Goss never had could not be put in place. I think that is where the nerve or the mettle to put it in and face the the National Competition Council has debate that would come in the House. foundered. When it comes into a State such Also, at the time Mr Goss had signed off as Queensland it has to look at our great with, I think, Mr Keating that we as a State decentralisation. It has to look at the cost of would come into the national competition the provision of services to the bush and regime. We as an incoming coalition regional Queensland, and that is considerable. Government had no say in whether we would be a part of it. We had to be or we faced The member for Gregory spoke about the serious economic disadvantage through the amount of money that the Government penalties that would be imposed and that had contributes as a community service obligation been agreed to by the previous Labor to see that services are provided to the bush Government. and to regional Queensland via our railway system. There is no reason why those service Against that background, we brought the commitments cannot still be provided under Bill into the House because we could not lose National Competition Policy. In fact, they about $2.33 billion over a 10-year period if we certainly can be provided. The only turned our back on National Competition requirement is that they be transparent, and I Policy. May I add, that still is the situation. The cannot see why anyone would argue against repeal of the legislation will not alter the fact that. In other words, one shows that by that we still have considerable hundreds of providing these services to the bush it is going millions outstanding which the Federal to cost the taxpayers of Queensland $650m or Government can pull from this State, which $750m, but that is a weighed-out balance for would severely affect the Budget of the State, the services provided. its infrastructure and its service provision. I do not think that has been taken into We have a large decentralised State and, consideration at all in a lot of the hot air if we are going to keep any population in any rhetoric we have heard in this place on the last of these areas, we need to provide services to couple of occasions we have debated this Bill. these people. As a result, we have a I would like to emphasise something I community service obligation, and will continue said in my speech at the time. At that time I to do so, otherwise our bush towns will close said— down. A lot of these places survive on these subsidies, to give the contribution another "This Government has recently name, and the Queensland community reaffirmed Queensland's commitment to acknowledges this. We also acknowledge the the National Competition Policy ... on the great input that our rural communities make to basis that it will in no way compromise the our economy. One cannot close one's eyes to level and standard of provision of that fact. Government services and, further— this is very important— In that regard, this reform process has certainly fallen down. I do not believe that the "that competition reforms will not be National Competition Council, headed by introduced where it cannot be Graham Samuel, has taken this matter demonstrated that there will be a clear sufficiently into consideration. When he came public benefit as a result of the proposed to see me when I was Treasurer, I enunciated reform." very clearly to him the absolute importance of I think it is on that latter basis that we have the public benefit test being applied as he said seen some of the flaws that have come about it would be—for the benefit of the public. 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 507

The whole concept behind National We placed three very prominent Queensland Competition Policy—and it is a good policy and businesspeople on the QCA. It was their role if it is applied well, it will work—is that it to oversee any prices dispute that arose out of provides a more competitive economy in any of the competition reforms that were being Queensland. This would lead to lower prices, put in place. I sincerely hope that the QCA is to the benefit of consumers and industry alike, still working well under the present and in particular would facilitate the Government. attractiveness of Queensland for investment In 1996, I was very pleased to see that projects. All of those are very worthwhile goals. the Opposition of the day—the current That is what competition should provide if it is Government—readily supported our Bill and well done and well regulated. the principles behind it. I find it surprising that As I mentioned, there were also Mr Hamill, the Treasurer, is all but shirking his significant financial incentives in the form of responsibilities under the Bill. He has come financial assistance from the Commonwealth forth with a lot of rhetoric but he has not come to the State as a result of participation in up with any solutions as to what we can do National Competition Policy. The sum involved about the problem. in our case was well over $2 billion. When the Bill was introduced into this With this financial assistance from the House, the Leader of the Opposition moved Commonwealth to the State—and we have an amendment that the Bill be referred to an already had a number of those payments—the all-party select committee to consider and coalition Government decided that we would report on the conduct, impact and future of allocate, I think, $150m over 10 years to local National Competition Policy in Queensland. government to help them accommodate The select committee was to comprise four National Competition Policy. This was never members nominated by the Government, ever suggested by the Labor Party. We were three members nominated by the Leader of the only State that did it. Local government the Opposition, and one member from among supported us and said, "Thank you. You have the Independents. The select committee was realised that, to provide the services we must to report to the House by 1 September 2000. I provide in a State like Queensland and to believe that amendment was eminently meet the requirements of National Competition sensible. I am absolutely amazed that it was Policy, there is going to be considerable cost. thrown out of this House. I am also amazed This $150m will help us significantly." that the Labor Government supported the As a Government, we felt that that was amendment being thrown out of the House. something we had to do. One might say that If this Government is genuine in its we were down $150m on our Budget, but it concerns about what National Competition was money that was being well spent. I believe Policy is doing to this State or, to be more it was an equitable way of distributing those specific, about how it is being applied, how funds. could it throw out an amendment which made It has been mentioned that the genesis of commonsense and which, when looked at on the National Competition Policy lay in the a whole-of-Government approach, could have recommendations of the Hilmer Report on provided a reasonable and responsible Competition Policy. Certainly everything Hilmer answer? I believe that this Labor Government said was not incorrect. Some people have is acting with the true hypocrisy that we have mentioned that it was incorrect, but it was not. come to associate with it. I believe that the The Hilmer report contained a lot of good amendment would have solved a lot of the principles, but I believe it was in their problems that people are genuinely raising in implementation that National Competition this House tonight concerning the effects of Policy has been found wanting. National Competition Policy. People have It was also important for us, as a State, to raised questions of how National Competition participate because if we had not introduced Policy is affecting small businesses, that legislation the Commonwealth rule would professions, taxi drivers, pharmacists, have prevailed. We, in Queensland, would not newsagents and people in the bush. These have been able to look after our own interests. genuine concerns must be looked at and must It was on this basis that, subsequent to this be acted upon. Bill, I introduced the QCA which was the I do not think it is possible to achieve the Queensland body responsible for overlooking required result by repealing the National prices regulation. We felt it was much better Competition Policy Bill—in fact, I know it is not than utilising the ACCC. We thought it was possible. Whilst that view may have been well- better that we looked at controlling ourselves. intentioned, it is not going to achieve the result 508 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000 that the person who introduced the Bill into the Australians are at the forefront of research and House may have intended. inventions. Through using that Australian In Queensland, we were able to control intellect, businesspeople have been able to such things as third-party access to our railway modify their businesses. lines. Indeed, the National Competition Council However, there has been a very agreed to a five-year extension on when we unfortunate side effect, which in many ways had to put that in place. We were also able to was expected, and that is the downsizing of look at things which would really affect the businesses with the resultant loss of jobs. That economy of the State. It was realised that we is a great concern to anyone in our community would not meet the deadline. On a number of and to any family with a family member who those matters, the National Competition loses a job. If we are doing the right thing, we Council agreed to extensions of time. We are will be opening up other industries, niche still going through some of that process. businesses or whatever so that these people The whole concept of reducing prices of can be retrained and employed. I refer to the electricity to all consumers, be they industrial or advances that have been made in the IT domestic, is very important. As industry and the Internet. Once, employment Queenslanders, we pay a lot of money for our in that sector was never an option. Now, a power and that has made our industries non- large proportion of our population is engaged competitive. The price of power has come in some form of Internet activity or business. down in Queensland. I think that matter is We have also seen what has been happening important to every person in the State. in the share markets recently in relation to that I think one must say, "Okay, we have industry. competition and we have the world out there Although some members of this House and we must compete as a nation with the have raised genuine concerns, in order to world, whether we like it or not." We cannot address those concerns I do not think that pull up the drawbridge and say, "We are repealing the Act is the way to go. In the long fortress Australia; we will live on our own," run, it is not going to achieve anything. It is because we would literally starve to death. We better that we do what the coalition must trade in a global environment, and that is Government wanted to do and suggested we very difficult for a nation such as Australia. We do—and I notice that when David Hamill came are a small nation and we do not have the into Government he took up this suggestion— population to readily absorb all our product; and that was that we abolish the NCC and put hence we must export. the control, regulation and supervision of To export, we have to import. That is the National Competition Policy under COAG. That way it goes. We just cannot say, "Right, I will way, the elected representatives can look at it send you all of my goods and I will not take and take into consideration, as we do with any of yours." On that basis, we start to get other COAG agreements, how funding would price rationalisation. I know that the word go to the States. Hence, the elected "rationalisation" is anathema to a lot of people, representative would look at how the but it is a fact of life. As that goes across to competition is affecting that State and how industries, in many ways those industries have payments back to the State would be affected. to change to remain viable. We have seen this That was the coalition's suggestion. I take place very ably in our rural industries. A lot congratulate David Hamill on taking it up. of our farmers saw what was going to happen However, it was not his suggestion, it was the if they continued on with their original ways. coalition's. Regardless of National Competition Policy, The Treasurer brought this suggestion they could see that they could not continue into the House, and the Parliament with the products out of which they had made unanimously passed it. I think that it was a a lot of money in the past. So they have gone very good thing to support. It is the sort of into producing different products and issue that we should be hammering home: undertaking different ways of land care and that the National Competition Policy is not the different ways of marketing their products. In big bogey that everyone is making it out to be; many cases, those farmers have been it is how it is implemented and how the public extremely successful. They are good farmers, benefit test is applied. Indeed, if the but they are also good businesspeople. regulations relating to that public benefit test A number of people whose businesses are too onerous, if they are not benefiting the were no longer productive and could not public, businesses and industries, then they do compete in the global environment have not fit into the National Competition Policy turned to other products. By and large, regime and should not be accepted. 15 Mar 2000 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 509

I think what is acceptable in smaller I have enjoyed having input into this States such as Victoria is not acceptable in a debate in the House. However, as the old large State such as Queensland. As we have saying goes, "Let us not throw the baby out gone along, we have learned how National with the bathwater." I would rather modify what Competition Policy affects our State and, in we have to our own benefit and to the benefit many instances, it has had a negative effect. of the people of Queensland. Let us learn by that and let us change the Mr MUSGROVE (Springwood—ALP) parameters by which we apply competition. (10.45 p.m.): In listening to this debate, it is We cannot say that we will not have quite evident to me that we all in this place competition; it is a fact of life. We have to have have one thing in common, that is, we are all it. However, we need to be able to adapt to it fundamentally dissatisfied with the progress of and not have to go through a painful process the National Competition Policy and its impact of retrenchment, of loss of jobs and of on the respective communities that we are disadvantage to our State. We need not go elected to represent. through that, provided National Competition Policy is well controlled and well regulated. However, the important point is not that we are all dissatisfied but the means by which So I must say that I do not support the we express that dissatisfaction in this place. repeal of the Act because I do not think that it The legislation that is sought to be repealed will give the benefits that the members who was an initiative of the previous Government. It introduced this legislation think that it will. I was introduced by the Opposition in 1996, and would like to reiterate that National I say that it was introduced for an excellent Competition Policy, or competition in its true reason, the excellent reason being that it sense, is not a negative, it is not a bogey; it is provides protection for Queensland against the how it is applied, it is how the public benefit worst excesses of National Competition Policy. test is applied. I think that the National Competition Council has been found wanting The repeal Bill seeks to strip away the in how it has looked at its application in States protection for Queensland under the such as Queensland and how it has looked at competition policy regime. I respect the intent its applications in certain industries and of the members of the CCA who introduced professions, particularly in rural communities. If this Bill. There are only two reasons why they the National Competition Council takes up the introduced this Bill: the members of the CCA cudgels and modifies the public benefit test in were either being malicious and seeking to terms of how it is calculated and perceived, disfranchise their own electors or, more then I think that we can get the very best result generously—and it is what I believe—they for Queensland and for our nation. simply had the best intentions but misfired on the legislative mechanism required to achieve We have to meet the challenges that are those intentions. being thrust upon us. We cannot say, "We will not meet these challenges. We do not want Mr Dalgleish: You would rather sit back them. They are not going to be there", and do nothing. because they are there. It is a reality of life. Mr MUSGROVE: I will talk about what has Frankly, if we stick our heads in the sand, we been done to date and I will talk about what are going to be left behind well and truly. we might be able to do in the future. That does not mean to say that we The Beattie Government is leading the should not be looking after the interests of way across all Australian jurisdictions in the Queensland, and the interests of Australia as fight against the excesses of National a whole. We should do that. When there is Competition Policy. Firstly, we have sought the unfair practice—and in recent times we have abolition of the National Competition Council. certainly seen that occur in terms of how the We want the supervision of the National United States protects its own markets—then Competition Policy put back where it belongs: we should protect our markets, as they are into the hands of elected representatives, back very important to us. We should say, "Well, quite properly into the hands of the Council of you are not doing it. This is what we are doing. Australian Governments, rather than the spivs There is no level playing field. Indeed, you are appointed by the Federal Government to do its not operating on a level playing field." We dirty work. The Beattie Government also wants have those powers in relation to certain the financial penalties removed. They are part products and certain abilities, particularly with of a regime being run by the Federal our Internet and other high-tech industries. I Government, aided and abetted by the think that we should look seriously at doing faceless bureaucrats in the National that more often. Competition Council. 510 Competition Policy Reform (Queensland) Repeal Bill 15 Mar 2000

This Government is no Johnny-come- competition policy, but the mechanism we lately to this cause. We sought these chose to achieve that in fact does the measures before we were elected to opposite." It is not too hard to be a big man Government. When in Opposition—and the and say, "I am wrong." As honourable record shows this quite clearly—we moved a members will well recall, this Government has, number of amendments to make sure that the on a number of occasions at the appropriate public benefit test included issues such as times, admitted when it has made mistakes. employment, impacts on regional People out there in the community respect communities, the environment and so on. that. We have also made the public benefit But continuing the charade of repealing test guidelines publicly available for the first this Bill as if it is going to do something for the time—publicly available to the people they constituencies which the CCA purport to affect the most, the voting public. We also represent is, quite frankly, disappointing. It supported the Borbidge Government, quite would be much easier to stop wasting the time correctly, in the establishment of the of this House and to stop pretending that this Queensland Competition Authority, because Bill will do anything for the people those we do not have faith in the faceless opposite are trying to represent. bureaucrats in Canberra dictating competition Mr Dalgleish: Go and tell that to the rural policy for Queensland. councils which are going broke. I believe the National Competition Council Mr MUSGROVE: I will take that has a fundamental conflict of interest. It should interjection. I would like to know whether the not and ought not be responsible for both member would like to go and tell the rural assessing the progress of competition reform councils, which I accept are going broke, that and advising which States are eligible for he would like to open a range of Queensland competition payments. Even the Productivity industries to the full force of National Commission, a bastion of scorched earth Competition Policy, to sell Queensland down economic rationalism, concurs with the the drain, to remove the only protection we inappropriateness of the dual role of the have. The honourable member for Hervey Bay National Competition Council. should read the Bill that he is trying to repeal, One of the decisions made by this because he will see that it contains the only Government to balance the adverse effects of protection that rural and regional Queensland this arrangement was to appoint Professor possibly have against National Competition John Quiggan—an esteemed economist and policy. a great critic of economic rationalism and, Mr Feldman interjected. more particularly, neoclassical economics—to Mr MUSGROVE: I will take that the Queensland council. Indeed, it is fair to say interjection from the member for Caboolture that the Queensland Government has gone about the RFA. If the honourable member further than any other Government in this wants to protect the timber industry in this country in redressing the imbalance in National State, he ought not try to remove a Bill which Competition Policy. But the fact remains that contains provisions for timber allocations for the core features of the competition policy are the timber industry. He cannot oppose the not contained in the Competition Policy RFA on the one hand yet say that the timber Reform (Queensland) Act, which this Bill seeks industry should be open to the full force of to repeal. They are of course contained in the National Competition Policy without any COAG agreements. Things like the provision of safeguards in the State of Queensland. He third-party access, the review of regulatory cannot say that it should open to regulations legislation and the neutrality of Government proposed by the spivs in Canberra on the one business enterprises all lie there, not in the Act hand but oppose the RFA on the other. If he which this Bill seeks to repeal. The bottom line wants to stand up for those constituencies, is that this Bill misses the mark completely. which I believe he is earnestly trying to This Bill seeks to repeal Queensland's only represent, then he should stop trying to repeal protection in relation to National Competition this Bill. Policy. Another problem with the current The members of the CCA, if they were arrangements is that the regulations—and this successful in their endeavours, would open is a far more constructive approach to Queensland to the full force of competition take—imposed by Governments to protect policy in Australia. I believe the CCA should industries such as the timber industry and the stand up this place and say, "I'm sorry, we got chicken industry are assumed under the it wrong. Our intention was to pull back current arrangements laid down in the COAG 15 Mar 2000 Adjournment 511 arrangements, not in this Bill, to be anti- Mr MUSGROVE: I will take that competitive—that is, guilty as charged—unless interjection, because by repealing this Act the they can prove otherwise. In other words, the manufacturing industry, not just the primary comparison in jurisprudence is that they are industries sector, would lose any protection presumed guilty and they have to prove their that could possibly be afforded to it by the innocence. I believe, and this Government Queensland Government. They would be believes, that the onus of proof ought to be stripping them bare. They would be taking reversed. competition policy out of the hands of this The member's endeavours would be place and putting it in the hands of faceless much better spent joining with the Government bureaucrats in Canberra. in pursuing the initiatives of the Treasurer and Debate, on motion of Mr Musgrove, lending support to the Government for those adjourned. initiatives. He should seek to have those changes implemented rather than go on with this nonsense, which is going to impose ADJOURNMENT scorched earth economic rationalism on his Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH (Chatsworth— own constituencies. As I said at the outset, ALP) (Leader of the House) (11 p.m.): I from my understanding of the contributions to move— this debate so far, all honourable members are "That the House do now adjourn." at one in their opposition to National Competition Policy. But the point is that we have to be constructive in pursuing that, not Riverleigh State School repeal the only Act which protects Mr SEENEY (Callide—NPA) (11 p.m.): Queensland. We should be big enough to say, Tonight in the Adjournment debate I wish to "Okay, this is not the way to go." We have raise an issue that has affected a number of wasted weeks of the House's time on communities within my electorate and a Wednesday nights pursuing this nonsense, number of communities within central which anyone can see is going to hurt the Queensland in the electorates of other people which the CCA, or whatever it is called, honourable members. I refer to the withdrawal seeks to represent. of teachers from schools, especially small Mr Dalgleish interjected. schools, where the teacher to student ratio has not been as was anticipated at the beginning Mr MUSGROVE: I take that interjection of the school year. from the member for Hervey Bay. I do not know what his party is called. What is In a number of cases, teachers have it—Conspirators, Crackpots and Anarchists? I been withdrawn from schools three and four do not know what the name is this week. weeks into the school year after classes have been established. That has caused a great Mr Dalgleish: We cannot join your party. deal of angst and upset for the schools and Mr MUSGROVE: I am not sure. Perhaps students involved. Within my electorate the the member for Hervey Bay and I can have a schools of Boynewood, Thangool, Gayndah, discussion afterwards, and he can tell me what Theodore and Riverleigh have all lost teachers. he actually stands for. As I said, they have lost teachers three to four weeks into the school year. That withdrawal of If this Bill is enacted, Queensland will teachers, because they have not been able to cease to be a participating jurisdiction. We will meet the strict student to teacher ratios, has lose the power to exempt industries from the caused a great deal of upset for those school operation of the Commonwealth Trade communities. A particular instance is the Practices Act. As a lesson in fundamental Riverleigh State School. Every one of those constitutional principles, I inform members that schools has been upset, but the Riverleigh this House does not have the power to repeal State School really is an example that the Commonwealth Trade Practices Act 1974. highlights the ridiculous nature of the policy It is not within our purview. We cannot do it. being pursued by the Department of What those opposite are saying is that they Education. want to unleash the full force of competition, The Riverleigh State School was a two- regardless of social consequences, on the teacher school with 25 students. Very early in people of Queensland. the school year, it lost one of those students Mr Feldman: You forget the and became a 24-student school. As a result manufacturing sector, which was waving of that, it failed to meet the strict rule that 25 placards and banners today. students were needed for there to be two 512 Adjournment 15 Mar 2000 teachers at the school. The teaching staff was Aged Care effectively cut in half. The Riverleigh State Mr REYNOLDS (Townsville—ALP) School went from being a two-teacher school (11.04 p.m.): The Howard Government's total to a one-teacher school simply because it was abrogation and abysmal handling of its aged one student short of the line. care responsibilities raises serious concerns for It is not hard to imagine that in a school all Australians, but particularly Queenslanders. with 50 or 60 teachers, if one teacher is lost it I believe the appalling examples of what does not have a big impact. However, it is also amounts to Dickensian practices in the not hard to imagine the impact that would Victorian nursing home, Riverview, and other have on the Riverleigh State School homes represent only the tip of the iceberg. community. Out of the 24 students at the The Federal Government has consistently Riverleigh State School, 15 students are in refused to deal with the crisis over a long Years 1 to 3. It has four students in Year 1, period—a fact which amounts to nothing short three students in Year 2 and eight students in of criminal neglect. The fact that six deaths are Year 3. The second teacher at the school currently being investigated following reports of taught the junior school. That teacher taught the lack of care in different nursing homes those 15 students. Because of the strict should set off alarm bells throughout the application of the quota rule by the nation. department, those 15 students then had to be amalgamated with the other nine students I strongly believe that the blame in all from the school and be taught by the teaching instances lies squarely with the Howard principal. Government for its draconian cost-cutting measures which ultimately affect the very The role of a teaching principal in a one- people it should be caring for. Elderly, frail and teacher school is onerous to say the least. Not totally dependent people, who are obviously only do they need to carry out the normal regarded by the coalition Government as functions of a classroom teacher; they also liabilities rather than assets, have virtually been need to attend to the myriad administrative thrown on the scrap heap. Forgotten are their details that are the responsibility of a principal contributions to society during their working at any school. Therefore, it is a savage blow to years and the lifetime of taxes that they have the Riverleigh State School community to have paid on the understanding that this money the second teacher removed. It is even more would not only improve the society in which ridiculous when we realise that Riverleigh is a they lived but that it would also go towards small school near Mundubbera. There is a caring for them in their old age. The reality is population of seasonal workers in this area quite the opposite, as we are seeing from and it is very likely that the numbers in the increasingly grim nursing home reports. school community will increase and decrease over the school year. Therefore, it is not hard What is really amazing is that these to see just how ludicrous this policy with such scandals have not erupted earlier, because emphasis on numbers is—a policy which the the fallout has been brewing for some time. Education Department is pursuing with such For at least the past two years the Howard vigour. It is hard to understand how such a Government has been warned, even by its policy could be put in place and pursued so own Federal members and supporters, that its diligently. It is hard to understand how the unjust funding cuts and rampant grabs for bureaucrats in the Department of Education extra revenue would backfire. For example, do not realise the effect of these rules and John Hewson was quoted in the Financial teacher withdrawals from schools such as Review on 15 April 1998 as stating— Riverleigh. It is bad enough for bigger schools; "We are not far from the nursing it is almost impossible for small two-teacher home 'scandal' hitting the evening current schools. affairs programs as some of our aged are Tonight I take this opportunity to call on virtually thrown out on the streets." the Minister for Education to show some heart On 4 December 1997 the New South Wales and understanding and to take another look at College of Nursing stated— the allocation of teachers to these small rural schools. I call on the Minister for Education to "Australia's elderly people cannot be take another look at this policy that is being guaranteed proper standards of care—or pursued by his department. I call on the even safety—under the Commonwealth Minister for Education to ensure that country Government's new system of classifying kids in country schools receive a fair crack of residents in nursing homes and hostels." the whip and achieve equality in respect of the These are grimly prophetic words which should education they receive. appal every caring and compassionate person 15 Mar 2000 Adjournment 513 in Australia. We hear consistently that the ensure that Queenslanders in nursing and totally unacceptable conditions in many aged care are given the treatment that they so nursing homes are directly attributable to a dearly deserve. lack of appropriate staffing levels, which in turn are attributable to a lack of funding. And Queensland is no exception. In fact, according Fraser Island to Wayne Smith in the Courier-Mail on 11 Hon. V. P. LESTER (Keppel—NPA) March this year, while the aged care industry is (11.09 p.m.): I have to comment tonight on operating on tight margins nationally, the atrocities that are occurring in relation to Queensland is managing under the tightest the management of Fraser Island. I have to margins of all. He cites the Productivity say to this Parliament and make it very, very Commission's report, which states that all clear indeed that the Fraser Island Area standardised cost comparisons show Management Committee has asked for a Queensland to be particularly disadvantaged. direct Budget allocation of $1,396,165 from He also reports that in some Queensland the State Government, but that has not been nursing homes one nurse has been found to provided. The only money that Fraser Island have been responsible for up to 100 residents has received is $2,441,866 by way of receipts at a time. That is a scandal. An informal poll from permits for camping and other associated revealed that members in 42 facilities found 12 user-pay permits. cases in which this applied. This is not good enough. The According to QNU Secretary Gay Commonwealth also contributes money to the Hawksworth, the optimum ratio of responsibility management of Fraser Island, but that is for one nurse is between 10 to 25 residents, based on what the State Government depending on the circumstances. In other contributes. This State Government, instances, reports have been received that supposedly the champion of the environment, residents have been overseen at night by has given absolutely nothing to this most carers rather than professional nurses. magnificent island—the greatest island of sand According to the Catholic Health Providers, in the whole world. This Government has such practices exist because no minimum decided that it is going to totally ignore it, and staffing requirements are in place. it cannot deny that. I call on the Minister, Rod While all nursing homes must be Welford, to show cause to the people and to responsible for the treatment of their residents, explain why Fraser Island has been allowed to the bottom line is this: many operate at fall literally and unfortunately into rack and ruin substandard levels because of Federal by the present State Government. Government funding cuts. Ultimately, the I have been advised that funds available responsibility for the care of these people lies for the management of Fraser Island are squarely in the hands of the Federal Howard about to run out. Indeed, they were meagre Government. Sufficient funding should be funds—in fact, no funds in the beginning. I am available to ensure a quality of life for every advised that ranger numbers have just been elderly person. cut by six; island roads and tracks are not Equally, effective Government legislation being adequately maintained; and new road should be in place to guarantee that minimum maintenance equipment, which was expected standards and staffing levels are adhered to. to be running by now, has not been This poses a very interesting question: has the purchased. Their only equipment is an old Federal Government deliberately ignored grader—ex-Forestry Department. Can substandard staffing levels in order to avoid honourable members imagine what that would the costs of providing adequate health care for be like? There is an old Komatsu loader and aged Australians and implementing two trucks. They pass their life as garbage appropriate legislation? It would appear so, as removal vehicles, and there are no tractors. nursing industry pleas to Aged Care Minister, Goodness me! This Government, champion of Bronwyn Bishop, to investigate and address the environment, has lost the plot and is the serious problems associated with care certainly no longer the champion of the spending and staffing continue to fall on deaf environment in any shape or form. ears. And right up to today they continue to fall The camping management plan issued on deaf ears. As we have seen, this is as a draft in July 1998 is still only a draft plan, happening to the detriment of many aged despite general agreement that it should be a people dependent on that care. It is sound and, indeed, ongoing plan. To happening in Queensland. It is a scandal in implement the plan, the State's share of the Queensland. I call on the Minister for Aged expenditure would be some $750,000 for each Care, Bronwyn Bishop, to lift her act and to of the past two years. Since no funds have 514 Adjournment 15 Mar 2000 been committed yet, all of the following educated in Bundaberg. At an early age, she projects are on hold: planned improvements to was stroke of the Bundaberg Ladies Rowing beach camp sites, but there have been no Fours that won a Queensland State title. Her improvements to the camp sites; and closure work in life was multi-faceted and she was of the Lake McKenzie camp ground and highly successful in all the demanding roles rehabilitation of the area. We know, of course, she undertook. that the level of water there is slowly falling and Maureen managed busy hotels in nothing is being done to address that problem. Bundaberg and Childers before assisting in the Another project that has been put on hold field of financial planning. She was elected to is the expansion to the camp ground at the Bundaberg City Council in 1991 at the Central Station. That has not got going. For same election that I was elected mayor. goodness' sake, what is the Government on Maureen excelled as a member of the about? Another one on hold is a planned new Planning and Development Committee and camp ground at Indian Head, which has also the Health and Environment Committee, and not gone ahead. This is a pretty disgraceful was the council's representative on many effort, I have to say. Then they decided that community committees: on the State they would like a computerised camp booking Emergency Services Committee and on system. Would that not be a sensible way to Regional Local Government Associations. do things? But this Government has not got the money. It could not care less. It is as She was one of the strongest links in that simple as that. almost new council elected in 1991, a council that had been elected with six women and Mr Baumann: The Environment Minister only three men—the biggest percentage of is not listening. women, I believe, ever elected to any council Mr LESTER: There you go; there is the in Australia's history. That council brought so Minister for Environment and I think he is many changes to Bundaberg. Maureen's asleep. He has just woken up. He is getting strength and her loyalty to the council, better. combined with her commonsense, sense of Mr WELFORD: I rise to a point of order. I humour and willingness to make the hard know that the honourable member wears decisions and stand by them, were glasses, but he ought to be able to tell the instrumental in achieving a new face for Bundaberg. The countless beautification difference between when I am awake and programs, the increased water allocations, the when I am asleep. CBD redevelopment, the new library, the new Mr LESTER: I have to admit that I can arts centre, the Sugar Museum and so many never tell the difference, unfortunately, even other projects were undertaken in just six when I am close to him. years. That just goes to show how much he The loss of her seat in 1997 was one of cares for Fraser Island. He goes down there those unfair quirks of fate that sometimes and outlines what he is going to do to Fraser occur at elections, and the loss was felt badly Island and he gets a big photo in the paper. by Maureen herself and by the council. We Then he runs away and forgets all about it. For missed her wisdom and we missed her quick goodness' sake! wit. I can recall one day when some Other management strategies include the councillors, including Maureen, were skiting May 1998 report "Managing Visitors and about how beautiful their little grandchildren Commercial Operators for Ecological were when Maureen interrupted to say, Sustainability" and the April 1999 report "Draft "Madam Mayor, I wonder if anyone ever has Fraser Island Dingo Management Strategy". ugly grandchildren." Maureen was fiercely loyal He ought to know a bit about that. Nothing to her own family of five children and nine happened there, either. grandchildren, to her friends and to the City of Time expired. Bundaberg. The Holy Rosary Church was packed to capacity for her funeral. The crowd of more Ms M. Fixter than 600 people, representing local Mrs NITA CUNNINGHAM (Bundaberg— government representatives from far and wide, ALP) (11.14 p.m.): I would like to place on State and Federal members, Emergency record in this House the valuable contribution Service personnel, neighbours, friends, people made to the City of Bundaberg by the late whom she had served in hotels and in financial Maureen Fixter, who recently lost a very brave management, ratepayers who benefited from battle with cancer. Maureen was born and her genuine desire to help them and girls she 15 Mar 2000 Adjournment 515 went to school with 50 years before were Queensland dairy farmers will be left in a testament to the high regard in which she was couple of years. held. Queensland dairy farmers are being The world just does not have enough squeezed at both ends—at one end by the Maureen Fixters. Maureen had processors and their offered farm gate price commonsense, a sense of decency and an and at the other end by the large grocery inner strength that were unique to her. She chains. We have all seen in the last few was loved by so many people, and she is months the home brands appearing on the sadly missed by them all. supermarket shelves. These products will enable the monopolies to source their milk from different processors, enabling them to Deregulation of Dairy Industry squeeze down the price. It is then a simple Dr PRENZLER (Lockyer—CCAQ) step to undercut the processor brands such as (11.17 p.m.): A great tragedy is about to Dairy Farmers and thus corner the market. unfold in an industry that has been one of the Woolworths, for example, is already stalwarts of farming in this country since the undercutting its home brand product by up to first European settlement. Of course, I refer 40c per two litre container. This will effectively here to the dairy industry—an industry that has place further pressure on the farm gate price acted as a vanguard in the development of offered by processors. many of our rural regions in this great State of Queensland; an industry that was not built To overcome this disastrous adjustment in overnight; an industry that has seen the the industry, the Federal Government has involvement of many generations of come up with a compensation package that Queensland families; an industry that in some calls for a 12c per litre levy on milk sales to instances has taken many generations to fund the compensation. In reality, this should establish quality herds; an industry that, due to not cause any increase in the price to the greed, overproduction in Victoria and, yes, due public because the farmers have already lost to the good old National Competition Policy, is this amount per litre. The package is expected about to disappear overnight in many of our to raise some $1.8m. This will yield an average rural districts. of $120,000 for each dairy farmer in Queensland, but after income tax this will fall This is not a small industry. It is an to around $90,000, which is the real offer to important export industry, earning in excess of the farmers. No wonder the Federal Treasurer $2.5 billion per year for this country in export is so besotted with economic rationalism. His dollars. Deregulation in this industry from July Government stands to receive a massive this year may eventually result in a cataclysmic taxation windfall from the misery inflicted on crash in the industry, affecting those exports. the dairy industry by deregulation. From July this year, the industry will undergo deregulation. What does this mean to the I have always held the view that Queensland industry? It means disaster— Queensland's regional areas and nothing but disaster. At the moment, Queensland's primary producers are the Queensland farmers enjoy an average price backbone of our economy. We in the City per litre of around 40c to 42c. This is an Country Alliance believe that primary average price of whole milk production and producers, workers and small business manufactured milk production. After July, it is operators in rural and regional areas should be expected that this average price will drop by encouraged in their endeavours for the sake of 12c per litre. This is a direct drop in farm the whole State. The deregulation of the dairy income to those farmers of 30%. I have yet to industry was always going to carve a swathe of see any unions in this country accept a drop of destruction through our rural communities, 30% in their members' wages. including my own electorate of Lockyer. Some areas that are dependent on this industry will The expected effects of the GST and the be totally devastated. coming changes to the diesel fuel rebate will see these farmers' livelihoods massacred. The City Country Alliance objects to the Victorian farmers, on the other hand, may application of taxation to the compensation survive this onslaught simply because of package. This package is derived from funds climatic differences and because their from consumers as well as farmers production costs are much lower than those themselves. Milk prices in Queensland that Queensland farmers face. In other words, continue to rise under deregulation. We have at around 28c per litre, Victorian farmers may seen a 23c rise per litre in the last six months survive. Many Queensland farmers will not. or so. Consumers are not benefiting from One wonders how many of the 1,800 deregulation and the price to farmers will 516 Adjournment 15 Mar 2000 continue to slide. Some 4,000 farmers across the principal of the school, is the sort of leader Australia are set to lose their livelihood—4,000 who inspires those under her. jobs—and along with them an expected I had the opportunity this week to speak 16,000 workers in dependent industries in the to a group of young children from all the rural sectors. Mr Costello, his mate Graham primary schools within the Redlands Shire Samuel from the NCC and their economic about leadership. I used the example of rationalist mates will have the blood of principal Kath Johnstone. She is able to inspire Australian dairy farmers on their hands. What her staff to do their best. She does not cajole a waste! What a tragic, tragic waste! them into doing the job. She leads them by allowing this band of people to excel in what Education Queensland they do. They believe that she is a marvellous leader. She believes that she sits in her office Mr BRISKEY (Cleveland—ALP) and lets the school run itself. The reality is that (11.22 p.m.): There are some wonderful things she is providing a brilliant example for her happening in education in Queensland. Since teaching staff and the parent and school my appointment to the position of community. I congratulate her on that. Cairns Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for West State School rises to all the challenges I Education, Dean Wells— have mentioned with programs to involve the Mr Mackenroth: Is that one of the parents in the school, a school bus to make wonderful things? home visits to poor attendees, an alternative Mr BRISKEY: The member asks if that is campus for self-excluders designed to one of the wonderful things to have reintegrate students back into school life and happened. I thank the member for his support. the employment of a family support worker. Since my appointment to the position of Another school I had the opportunity to Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for visit recently is the Loganlea State High Education, Dean Wells, in February this year, I School. This school has a higher than usual have had the opportunity to see many of interest in manual arts—in fact almost double those wonderful things during visits to almost other schools. That led to my announcement 50 Queensland schools. From Cairns to the two weeks ago on behalf of the Minister of Gold Coast, from Mackay to Winton, a band of additional manual arts facilities. This school dedicated teaching professionals are building also has a horticultural program and strong a future for our children of which we can all feel links with local industry. Vocational education is confident and proud. However, education in the overwhelming focus of the majority of Queensland is assuredly not one size fits all. students at the school. The truth is that challenges in our schools At Smithfield State High School the today mirror those challenges facing us as a interest is in information technology and a society. Queensland children do not leave their community radio station managed and staffed home lives at the school gate. by the students. The member for Barron River I inform members of the House of one and I had the pleasure of announcing painting Queensland school community whose efforts works at Smithfield and a library extension for are truly inspirational. I had the opportunity of the Edge Hill State School during an interview visiting Cairns West State School just last with the students, who do a magnificent job week. Well over 50% of its students are either running their radio station from the school. Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander. One in The important task for educators and the three students, or 106 children, speak an Government is to rise to all the challenges indigenous language at home. A further 48 of presented by the needs of students and the school's children speak a language other provide educational programs that fit their than English at home. The parents of many of needs and the needs of the communities from these children received little or no formal which they come. Of course, it will always schooling, resulting in a natural fear of school remain important to ensure that certain and what it has to offer their children. standards are common across all education Attendance for some students is poor. sectors, but it is also vitally important to equip As members can understand, the Queensland children with the skills they need challenges are many. Yet the vast enthusiasm to live, work and prosper in the 21st century. and sheer gusto with which this impressive band of women—the principal, her deputy, the president of the P & C and president of the Development Planning, Chermside Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander parent Mr SULLIVAN (Chermside—ALP) group—work is just amazing. Kath Johnstone, (11.27 p.m.): Good town planning is essential, 15 Mar 2000 Adjournment 517 but it is a long-term process and is difficult to adhere to. A decade ago, the then Minister for Local Government and Planning, the Honourable Terry Mackenroth, instituted the SEQ 2001 plan. In the hierarchy of planning which came out of that SEQ 2001 program, after the Brisbane central business district and the other city centres, two major regional centres were third in the level of hierarchy. One of those was identified as Chermside. The Brisbane City Council instituted an excellent community consultation process which led to a development control plan that has been accepted by almost all the community. We have seen the bus interchange constructed in the past year and in recent months the openings of major supermarkets at the redeveloped shopping centre site on the corner of Gympie and Hamilton Roads. We have seen Coles, K mart and Bi-Lo and many specialty stores open in recent months. There are more major stores to open and there is the cinema complex. This has shown the benefit of good planning, but it takes time, effort and the will to see this task through to its conclusion. I congratulate all who have been involved from a State, Brisbane City Council, business or local community level on their contributions in helping the development of the Chermside regional centre. Motion agreed to. The House adjourned at 11.30 p.m.