STATE OF NEW YORK
PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION ______
Application of Upstate NY Power Corp. for a Certificate of Environmental Compatibility and Public Need for a 50.6 mile 230kV Transmission Facility from Galloo Island in the town of Hounsfield, Jefferson County, to the Fitzpatrick-Edic Substation in the Town of Mexico, Oswego County.
Case No.: 09-T-0049
______
PUBLIC HEARING, before Administrative
Law Judges Jeffrey E. Stockholm and Kevin J. Casutto,
presiding, held on November 16, 2009, at 8939 NYS Route
178, Henderson, New York, commencing at 11:00 a.m.,
before Terry Clark, Court Reporter and Notary Public in
and for the State of New York.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 2 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 PUBLIC HEARING
3 NOVEMBER 16, 2009
4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Ladies and
5 gentlemen, if we could come to order, please,
6 we'll begin the public statement comments.
7 What I would ask you is when I call your
8 name to please come up to this microphone in
9 the front. That will greatly assist the
10 stenographer in getting your words down
11 accurately and completely, and we will call
12 these cards in the order that we got them.
13 Are there any questions before we begin?
14 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Do we face
15 you?
16 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: As long as you use
17 the microphone you can face any way you
18 want. However, the comments are referred to
19 us. That's the purpose of the hearing.
20 Okay, let's begin. I call Case 09-T-0049,
21 application of Upstate New York Power Corp.
22 for a Certificate of Environmental
23 Compatibility and Public Need for a 50.6 mile
24 230kV Transmission Facility from Galloo Island
25 in the Town of Hounsfield, Jefferson County
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 3 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 to the Fitzpatrick-Edic Substation in the
3 Town of Mexico, Oswego County.
4 Ladies and gentlemen, my name is
5 Jeffrey Stockholm, and with me is Judge Kevin
6 Cusutto, and we are the Judges that are
7 assigned by the Public Service Commission to
8 hear this proceeding. This proceeding has
9 just begun. It will be a number of months
10 long, but this is the very beginning. The
11 very first piece of formal record to go to
12 the commission are the statements that you're
13 making today. All of those statements both
14 oral and written, should you choose to do
15 that, will be in the formal record of this
16 case before the Commission when it ultimately
17 makes its determination. The purpose, as you
18 all know, is to make statements, and let me
19 begin then with the first card that I have,
20 which is Roberta French. Miss French.
21 MS. FRENCH: Okay. Is this
22 supposed to be used?
23 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: You can do
24 anything you want.
25 MS. FRENCH: Is it live?
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 4 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Yes, it's live.
3 MS. FRENCH: Okay, I'm not going to
4 take too much of your time this morning,
5 because we're Sandy Creek residents and we
6 have a Sandy Creek blueberry farm right
7 across from, or right near the Sandy Creek
8 Fairgrounds. A little advertising. It so
9 happens that we, number one, we didn't hear
10 of this meeting or of any of this until
11 Thursday, so we're really not too well
12 prepared, but we're doing our best. It
13 seems as if the proposed line is to go right
14 straight through the middle of the blueberry
15 farm which we have be working at and getting
16 started for the last six years. We have
17 built a pond. We have irrigation. The
18 present blueberry site is three acres. The
19 next phase will be another five acres, and
20 the third phase will be another seven acres.
21 This has been worked. It's a beautiful
22 spot. To our surprise, people have come
23 from all over, way up past Sackets Harbor
24 way down towards Syracuse. Up and down the
25 lake people have been coming to this
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 5 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 blueberry farm, and it's only been producing
3 two years. The second year we produced
4 twice as much as we did the first year. We
5 have people from Connecticut that come here
6 in the summer. They love this place. It's
7 beautiful. They bring their children. To
8 run high-tension wires through this
9 magnificent area, you know, I love it, but
10 it's gorgeously clean and we propose, we have
11 a proposal which we will submit that will
12 possibly go around the blueberry fields, the
13 present one and the proposed one. I'd like
14 to just make a great point that we knew
15 nothing about this. We have not ever been
16 informed, and I don't know how they decided
17 to run through a blueberry or a deer fence
18 on both sides and go over or under or
19 whatever they want to do through here. I
20 have a drawing. If anybody wants to look at
21 it, pick it up. It's probably two-thirds of
22 the existing blueberry field that is now
23 producing. So, I have questions. My one
24 question is how high are these columns, these
25 posts, and I understand the posts are going
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 6 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 to be 5 to 600 feet apart, if that's
3 correct, and I understand they might be about
4 a hundred feet. So, if anybody from the
5 engineer department wants to clarify that,
6 I'd appreciate it.
7 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Ma'am, if you
8 could speak with those technical people after
9 your statement, that would be fine. This is
10 not the forum to put in that specific kind
11 of evidence.
12 MS. FRENCH: Okay. Thank you. I
13 have with with me my partner, my niece, from
14 New Jersey. She has been put in hours and
15 hours on this with my son and his wife. We
16 all have been working on this place, and
17 each one of us have specific talents which
18 have gone together to produce this farm and
19 the whole blueberry site, which by the way,
20 we're the only one between farther down in
21 Pulaski or Mexico and up north towards
22 Massena. So, I guess that's our statement.
23 Margie, do you have anything, who is my
24 partner? You're second in line I understand
25 to speak anyways, if you want to add to it.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 7 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Margaret Gavin.
3 MS. GAVIN: Yes.
4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: By the way, I
5 apologize but if you have specific proposals,
6 which I think I heard Miss French say, you
7 should make sure that you get those specific
8 proposals to the staff of the department as
9 well as to the applicant.
10 MS. GAVIN: Okay. I think my aunt
11 has said just about all that needs to be
12 said about the blueberry place and how much
13 effort we've put into it and how really
14 upsetting it is to have, you know, all your
15 work and then you hear through some fluke
16 thing that they're going to put a
17 high-tension pole through there, couple big
18 poles. I mean, it's just not aesthetically
19 pleasing. It's an organic blueberry farm and
20 we care about the environment and what they
21 put in their bodies, and then I hear things,
22 you know, I get things off the internet that
23 says the high-tension wires can cause cancer
24 from the electromagnetic field. Now, you
25 know, there's studies that say that's not
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 8 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 true and studies that say it is true, but
3 for me I'm a little sensitive about it
4 because I finished radiation on Thursday,
5 okay, and for me to have to work under this
6 wire eight, ten hours a day for three, four
7 months and worry about that, that's enough to
8 cause something. So, they need to move it.
9 I have looked at the drawings. There's all
10 kinds of bends on that thing to avoid trees.
11 They can avoid the blueberry farm where
12 people are going to be out there picking and
13 we're going to be out there working, and
14 that's all I have to say about it, and they
15 should have notified us. Thank you.
16 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for your
17 comments. The next speaker I have is George
18 Randleman. Is he here? Okay, if he comes
19 back we'll save that. The next card I have
20 is for Holly Austin.
21 MS. HOLLY AUSTIN: Hello. My name
22 is Holly Austin. I'm an attorney with the
23 law firm of Hancock and Estabrook. I
24 represent the Town of Henderson in this
25 matter. The town is a formal party and will
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 9 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 be participating in the various stages of
3 comments, so I'll keep my remarks brief and
4 to the point today since we will have
5 further opportunities to participate, but I
6 would like to give a brief overview of what
7 the town's formal position is with regards to
8 this hearing. The town is vehemently opposed
9 to the planned transmission line coming
10 through the town at all, and particularly
11 opposed to both of the proposed routes.
12 I think you will come to hear and
13 understand in the course of today that the
14 foundation of this entire community is
15 tourism, seasonal use, fishing, boating,
16 outdoor recreation of all varieties as well
17 as, of course, as agricultural uses.
18 In 2001, the town put together a
19 comprehensive plan conducted some surveys of
20 members of the community. They got about a
21 20 percent response on the survey which is
22 significant. Respondents were asked to rate
23 the level of importance of ten factors
24 including such things as recreational
25 opportunities, water and sewer availabilities
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 10 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 to improve the small town atmosphere. The
3 number one response of the greatest
4 importance to people in this community was
5 the natural beauty of the area, and a
6 similar area of concern of the same survey
7 was the scenic preservation of the area, and
8 the second highest response was protection
9 for a 4.4 out of 5 which was second only to
10 the generic quality of life category.
11 Obviously, this is a community that's very
12 concerned about the visual impact of this
13 proposed project. Nearly 50-percent of the
14 inhabitants of this community is seasonal,
15 which, of course, has an impact on this
16 project. A lot of the residents are not
17 able to be here today and have some grave
18 concerns about the amount of notice that has
19 been provided, particularly to seasonal
20 residents who aren't available and have not
21 received notice of what's going on and will
22 not have an opportunity to participate.
23 Roughly 46 percent of residents have had
24 their homes here for more than 25-years.
25 These are people who come back for many,
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 11 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 many years. It's our family home. It's
3 also important to note that the proposed
4 siting of the transmissions lines violates
5 the town zoning code. Under the town code,
6 transmission rights are prohibited entirely in
7 various zones. Others require a special-use
8 permit, and obviously none of those will be
9 an option with regard to these proposed
10 facilities because of the rules of the Public
11 Service Commission. I think they're an
12 important reflection of the values of the
13 community in regard to the transmissions
14 lines. They also violate the principles of
15 overlay district to protect the scenic views
16 along the edge of the lake. In addition,
17 the proposed route goes right through a new
18 water and sewer district was targeted as an
19 area intended for residential development, and
20 that's going to have an impact and
21 significantly alter the comprehensive plan for
22 this town. I believe --
23 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I apologize. Is
24 that development currently on the town maps?
25 In other words, if somebody came in to look,
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 12 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 would they would know that that area was
3 subject to development?
4 MS. AUSTIN: Yes, it is part of
5 proposed water and sewer district.
6 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Okay, proposed, but
7 if I came into the town hall and I said "Do
8 you have any documentation showing where this
9 development was going to go?", would the town
10 have that documentation?
11 MS. AUSTIN: There's no specific
12 application that's been filed to engage in
13 the development. It's just part of the
14 comprehensive plan where they hoped the
15 development would occur.
16 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I would urge you
17 to make that information known to the staff.
18 MS. AUSTIN: Certainly we will. So,
19 I guess in summary, the town's first request
20 is avoid the town if possible. Of course,
21 running lines underground is preferable,
22 particularly in the scenic overlay districts
23 and areas where it will have a significant
24 visual impact and have a harmful impact on
25 seasonal use and tourism and outdoor
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 13 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 recreation. The town will be submitting some
3 additional proposals for an alternative route
4 that would cut out some of the route through
5 the town and go through much less populated
6 areas of the town as opposed to what has
7 already been proposed. That's my conclusion,
8 unless you have further questions. Thank
9 you.
10 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you very
11 much. At the outset I didn't tell you this
12 and I apologize, but under New York State
13 law you all have a right of privacy to not
14 be photographed. Otherwise, the photography
15 that goes on in here is completely legal,
16 but if you get up and make a statement and
17 don't want to appear in video somewhere, you
18 have the absolute right to ask for that and
19 I will ask that the cameras be turned off in
20 that event. I meant to cover that at the
21 outset. I apologize. The next card I have
22 is John Irwin. Mr. Irwin.
23 MR. IRWIN: My name is John Irwin.
24 I a resident of Clay, New York, but my
25 connection to the Town of Henderson is
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 14 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 through the yacht club.
3 I contend that the consideration of
4 alternate routes is seriously flawed by
5 superficial evaluation, lack of substantive
6 analysis, and occasionally by truly specious
7 arguments. In short, alternate routes were
8 given only lip service. Because of the
9 shortcomings, Upstate NY Power Corp's
10 application is deficient and vulnerable to
11 challenge.
12 Now, I have three segments. The
13 first I want to address is the alternate
14 route, which is the all underwater route.
15 Then I want to describe a route passing
16 south of Stony Island that was never
17 considered, and in the third segment I want
18 to address the Coffeen Street interconnection
19 issues. Interposed between Galloo Island and
20 the mainland is Stony Island. So any
21 transmission line to the nearest landfall
22 must swing around Stony Island either to the
23 north or to the south. The proposed route
24 swings to the north, even though the
25 transmission line must proceed southward to
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 15 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 the Mexico substation. So, going north to
3 then go south does not seem rational,
4 especially if swinging southward around Stony
5 Island was never considered. No potential
6 impediments to initially swinging well
7 southward around Stony Island were ever
8 identified or evaluated. So, this routing
9 possibility south of Stony Island will be
10 discussed, but first I want to address the
11 much more promising underwater route.
12 A line from Galloo Island almost due
13 south intercepts the mainland, not at Oswego
14 but at Nine Mile Point. This is the
15 location of the well known Nine Mile Point
16 Nuclear Power station. It has a combined
17 nameplate capacity of 1761 megawatts for both
18 Unit 1 and Unit 2. Unit 3, with a capacity
19 of 1600 megawatts is in the proposal stage.
20 So, with a potential for more than 3.3
21 gigawatts, Nine Mile Point has or will have
22 ample opportunity for power connection to the
23 grid. By the way, with only 1.21 gigawatts,
24 you can go back to the future.
25 Now, here are the exact words of the
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 16 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 application regarding the subaquatic route,
3 also known as the the all underwater route.
4 "This alternate requires little, if any,
5 above ground structures on shore. Running
6 almost completely below water, this alternate
7 would result in little or no impacts to
8 mainland cultural or agricultural resources.
9 Few, if any, residential structures would be
10 impacted. Likewise, land owner concerns
11 would be minimized as the State of New York
12 owns the majority of land crossed by this
13 alternate. Similarly, this offshore route
14 would result in in few, if any, impacts to
15 onshore environmental resources such as
16 wetlands and soils." Sounds very attractive,
17 so what is the problem.
18 The application words continue: "...
19 the cost of this all underwater route is
20 estimated as more than $185 million. This
21 route presented relatively high construction
22 and material costs, including the cost of
23 underwater cable and need for an extensive
24 lakebed survey. There were also potential
25 reliability concerns associated with the
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 17 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 subaquatic cable of this length in the event
3 of a failure and extended repair time as
4 compared to a overhead mainland facility.
5 Therefore, this rule was not evaluated
6 further. What is conspicuously missing is an
7 economic comparison with the selected route.
8 If we take the selected route as costing
9 approximately $153 million, I contend that
10 the life-cycle costs, I repeat, life cycle
11 costs, including 20-year PILOT payments,
12 easement, option and right-of-way costs should
13 be compared. Suppose the annual costs for
14 the upland facilities are 1.5 million dollars
15 per year. Then $153 plus $30 million is
16 very close to $185 million. (Note that all
17 of these numbers are soft, because they
18 depend upon assumptions that could turn out
19 to be either optomistic or pessimistic.)
20 In fact, the application states "The
21 estimated local tax base impacts are
22 anticipated to be $2 million dollars annually
23 project wise, which is, of course, referring
24 to the wind generation facility's transmission
25 line," not the wind towers themselves. So,
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 18 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 this is to say that economic benefits to the
3 towns and counties for the upland route are
4 foregone, but instead would accrue to the
5 underwater route. This is an eliptical way
6 of saying if you don't have to pay $2
7 million dollars per year to the towns and
8 counties, that makes the underwater route
9 that much more attractive.
10 The claim about reliability of a
11 subaquatic route is without merit. An
12 underwater cable is not affected by an ice
13 storm, or by lightning. Everyone here
14 remembers well the ice storm of 1998 and the
15 severe disruptions for weeks and months it
16 caused.
17 Reliability could also be enhanced by
18 dropping a fourth 2000 kilo-circular-mil
19 copper strand as a spare for the three
20 phases, and hopefully cables will be dropped
21 meanders so that they could be grappled and
22 pulled up for repair.
23 Another consideration is that wind
24 energy facilities could not provide baseload,
25 for the simple reason that the wind does not
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 19 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 always blow, so somewhat extended downtime
3 for repair is not a disaster. Since Galloo
4 is an island, at least some subaquatic
5 facilities must be dealt with. Whether it
6 is nine miles or 26 miles is simply a matter
7 of degree.
8 The direct path southward drops
9 rapidly into water with a depth greater than
10 10 fathoms, so jetting the came into sediment
11 may not be necesary at this depth.
12 Protection for ice scour at the shorelines is
13 no worse than the Galloo to Stony Point
14 cable route.
15 In the application, Ocean Surveys,
16 which is a corporation, specifically states
17 that they were directed by ESS Group not to
18 survey any lakebed except the proposed
19 north-around route, although they initially
20 started reconnaissance to the south and east
21 of Galloo Island.
22 Okay. Now I want to turn to an
23 alternate route that was never considered,
24 southward around Stony Island to come ashore
25 in the vicinity of Little Stony Creek. This
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 20 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 landfall would be north of Southwick State
3 Park, slightly north of the #7 buoy that
4 marks Drowned Island and south of Black Pond.
5 Since Stony Island shoals off to the
6 southwest, the subaquatic route should stay
7 west of the #5 buoy which is Calf Island
8 Spit. Once ashore, the transmission line can
9 follow a southward path to the Mexico
10 interconnect. Swinging south around Stony
11 Island to proceed overland in a southerly
12 direction seems more logical than going north
13 to then go south. However, there may be
14 other considerations involving the chosen
15 route that are not being revealed at this
16 time.
17 One alternate route that is mentioned
18 is between Stony Island and Calf Island.
19 This is an example of choosing an obviously
20 poor route and then arguing against it. All
21 the arguments are correct, it may require
22 horizontal directional drilling, there maybe
23 bedrock in the path, and sediment for cover
24 may not been adequate. The only slight
25 argument in favor is that this is a shorter
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 21 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 path than around Stony Island.
3 For a truly specious argument,
4 consider 3.7, the No Action alternate,
5 described thusly in pertinent phrases: "The
6 alternate course of taking no action and
7 building no new transmissions lines was
8 considered." Really. "The proposed wind
9 power generating facility is located on an
10 island in Lake Ontario... the no action
11 alternate would render the proposed wind farm
12 economically infeasible... Hence, the no
13 action alternate was dropped from
14 consideration." I suspect that butter would
15 not melt in the mouth of the person who
16 wrote this, but they satisfied Public Service
17 Law 122(1)(e) and 16 NYCRR Section
18 86.4(a)(3). I submit that not only would
19 the project be "economically infeasible," it
20 might be "technically challenging" without a
21 transmission line. The tale does not wag
22 the dog.
23 Okay, finally I want to discuss the
24 Watertown interconnect opportunities, which are
25 the Coffeen Street 115kV substation and the
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 22 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 East Watertown 115kV substation. I will
3 refer to these collectively as Coffeen
4 Street, because they're both in the Watertown
5 area. They are in Zone E of the State of
6 New York Independent System Operator, and
7 connect to a NYPA 345kV line. Note that the
8 Edic-Fitzpatrick substation falls within Zone
9 C.
10 Now, the application states "A New
11 York Independent System Operator's preliminary
12 study of Zones D and E found that (sic),
13 "... the potential for transmission
14 limitations due to concentration of wind
15 projects in specific locations," and that
16 "based on megawatts and location of wind
17 generation in the que, lack of transmission
18 may restrict future energy deliveries from
19 wind plants in various localities especially
20 Zones D and E." The application words
21 continue, now that was a quote from the
22 Independent System Operator concluded that
23 routing opportunities relying on Zone E
24 interconnections would lack sufficient
25 electrical capacity for the Galloo Island
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 23 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 interconnection. An assumption of high
3 incremental cost to the project in order to
4 upgrade facilities in Zone E to accommodate
5 the interconnection led to the elimination of
6 these Zone E opportunities.
7 Now, the cryptic phrases here are
8 "concentration of wind projects" and "location
9 of wind generation in the que." What
10 exactly is being said here? Does this mean
11 that Coffeen Street is reserved for other,
12 future north country wind projects, since it
13 would certainly be geographically closer? Or
14 does this simply say that there will be
15 choke points in the future? It most
16 certainly does not say upgrades are ruled
17 out. But this is used as the argument to
18 eliminate a Coffeen Street interconnection.
19 What is also conspicuously missing is
20 a realistic cost comparison between the
21 Coffeen Street innerconnect, which is the
22 shortest route, and the proposed route
23 southward. In quotes, "An assumption of high
24 incremental cost" is not a substitute for
25 evaluating the actual cost of hanging modern
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 24 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 cable and insulators to upgrade the Coffeen
3 Street facilities on their way to the
4 regional grid. The blitheness with which
5 Coffeen Street is dismissed is astounding.
6 Here's another example of decision
7 making, taken from 3.4.1.3: "This route
8 provided an interconnection with the regional
9 power grid that avoided Douglaston Manor
10 Incorporated property and avoided the densely
11 settled area of the Village of Pulaski in
12 the Town of Richland, Oswego County, New
13 York. Discussions with landowners along this
14 alternate route indicated that there was
15 opposition to the location of structures in
16 certain areas and therefore this route was
17 abandoned from further consideration." My
18 colleagues in the Town of Henderson would
19 certainly like to enjoy the same spirit of
20 comity.
21 So, in conclusion, I contend that
22 the evaluation of alternate routes has been
23 superficial, illogical and without substantive
24 analysis. Arm waving arguments are not a
25 substitute for making careful well-reasoned
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 25 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 choices. I urge the Public Service
3 Commission to pull out a fresh sheet of
4 paper.
5 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you, sir.
6 The next card I have is Robert Ashodian.
7 MR. ASHODIAN: My name is Robert
8 Ashodian. I'm a resident here in the Town
9 of Henderson. I'm also a member of the
10 Board of Assessment Review, so I'm familiar
11 with property values. I am also a member of
12 the Planning Board of Henderson, and today I
13 am speaking on behalf of the Henderson Harbor
14 Area Chamber of Commerce Economic Development
15 Committee.
16 I have provided a letter to the
17 judges, and I would like to read that
18 letter. The most recent locating of the
19 transmission lines for the Galloo Island
20 project is in complete violation of the
21 intent, vision and goals for the Town of
22 Henderson as described in the comprehensive
23 land use plan for the Town of Henderson.
24 This is the plan. It is filled with charts.
25 It is filled with the inventory of what's
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 26 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 valuable to this community. It's filled with
3 the needs of this community. This plan was
4 developed with the joint participation of
5 representives from the Henderson town board,
6 the planning board, the zoning board of
7 appeals, Jefferson County planning, and the
8 cooperation of others from the community over
9 several years. Surveys were taken. Public
10 forums were held, and a very careful
11 examination was made of the resources of this
12 community. The comprehensive plan was
13 approved in 2004. The comprehensive plan
14 pointed out the many scenic resources of the
15 community and the sweeping views of the lake,
16 harbors, farm fields and other spectacular
17 views. Those natural resources are at the
18 heart of the economic survival of this
19 community. The comprehensive plan identified
20 historical structures and landmarks such as
21 the Thomas Dobson House. The comprehensive
22 plan identified the most likely areas for
23 residential development, for residential and
24 small mixed uses for agricultural and rural
25 residential uses, and they are all in the
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 27 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 plan. They are all defined by maps in
3 color. The comprehensive plan also
4 identified and mapped a zone of priority
5 character and area because of its proximity
6 to the shoreline of Lake Ontario and
7 Henderson Bay which was deserving of special
8 focus and attention to preserve the character
9 of this community. The chart on the wall
10 over here is an enlargement of the map that
11 appears in the comprehensive plan. The areas
12 that look like hatches from here are the
13 areas along that shoreline, the areas along
14 the Seaway Trail, the areas around the Town
15 of Henderson, and the area around Crisco
16 Lake. Those areas are specifically
17 identified as the corridore overlay district.
18 Those areas are specifically identified as
19 PPS. See page 52 of the comprehensive plan,
20 and the areas on the chart identified as the
21 current overlay zone. That's a chart I
22 encourage you to take a look at. I
23 encourage the Applicant to take a look at
24 it. This zone includes the area
25 approximately 2,000 feet back from our
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 28 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 shoreline, areas worth protecting back 2000
3 feet from key highways that run near the
4 shoreline, the Seaway Trail, the center of
5 the Town of Henderson and Crisco Lake. This
6 area, especially along the shoreline,
7 represents the currently most valuable
8 property and the most likely to be developed
9 in the future. We find it absolutely
10 incredulous that the proposed transmission
11 line goes directly through the corridor
12 overlay zone. The current mapping shows the
13 transmission line coming ashore on the north
14 face of Stony Point across the zone, across
15 prime agricultural and rural residential land
16 and back to the corridor overlay zone where
17 it does not simply cross the zone but
18 follows it length wise passing close by
19 White's Bay, two marinas, the town boat
20 launch area. It does not simply cross the
21 zone, but it follows it length wise passing
22 by these areas. The proposed transmission
23 line continues through the very center of the
24 overlay zone that includes the Seaway Trail
25 right there in the center of that map, which
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 29 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 we see in reference in the comprehensive land
3 use plan for the Town of Henderson or in any
4 of the documentation provided. This is a
5 key point. How can a public, or how can we
6 think about building or having a utility of
7 this magnitude built and there's no
8 reference, no reference whatsoever to a plan
9 the citizens of this community put together.
10 It's incomprehensible. We have to conclude
11 that a long term land use plan was never
12 considered, never reviewed, never even looked
13 at. If it had been looked at it would
14 appear that steps were taken to specifically
15 run the transmission line directly through as
16 much of the town's most valuable properties
17 as possible. We are appalled that such a
18 plan has come so far in total disregard for
19 this community.
20 We ask the Public Service Commission
21 to make a thorough review of the content of
22 the comprehensive land use plan for the Town
23 of Henderson and the relevance of that on
24 document for any proposed siting of the
25 transmission line. We ask that the entire
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 30 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 routing process be re-evaluated. We ask that
3 no routing include the violations of the
4 corridor overlay zone. Attached to this
5 letter, which I will provide at tonight's
6 hearing, will be this comprehensive plan. If
7 anybody on the Applicant side would like to
8 answer the question right now, I would invite
9 them to do so. Have you ever seen this
10 document?
11 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I can assure you,
12 sir, that that question will be asked now
13 that you have raised it so pointedly.
14 MR. ASHODIAN: I have signed the
15 card twice. I have some other comments I
16 would like towards the end which will reflect
17 personal opinion, but I wanted to get this
18 on the record as a representative and as
19 Chairman of the Economic Development Committee
20 for the Henderson Harbor Area Chamber of
21 Commerce, which I can assure you is deeply,
22 deeply involved in looking at what is going
23 on in this town as it regards the
24 transmission line and the Galloo Island wind
25 farm project. Thank you very much.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 31 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: The next speaker I
3 have is Pete Price. Mr. Price.
4 MR. PRICE: Good afternoon. My name
5 is Pete Price, and I'm owner of 40 acres of
6 land and a small business east of and
7 adjoining Route 3. My back property line is
8 Big Stony Creek. I hope everyone here is
9 enjoying this September weather we're
10 observing in November, and that's some common
11 ground that we all have, which might be the
12 only common ground. However, we share in some
13 more common ground, which is preserving this
14 planet. However, the only way that we're
15 going to accomplish this is if mankind leaps.
16 It's an unachievable goal no matter how much
17 green is forced upon us. In my layman's
18 opinion, your plan to accommodate this
19 proposed transmission line was accomplished
20 with inadequate planning and research
21 resulting in immediate negative economic and
22 environmental impact on my business, land
23 values and quality of life. New York State
24 purchased the fishing rights to Big Stony
25 Creek and has a 33-foot right-of-way. This
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 32 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 was accomplished to preserve the asset to our
3 community. I initiated zoning changes to
4 eliminate the commercial exposure sure to Big
5 Stony. This action was accomplished to keep
6 and preserve the natural beauty of our town.
7 I planted 500 plus trees with several hundred
8 having 25 years of growth to enhance the
9 existing natural corridor of wild life that
10 Big Stony provides. I installed in sections
11 of a thousand feet of underground utilities
12 to preserve the natural aesthetics of my
13 land. I invite anyone from the developing
14 agency to come to my land and witness what I
15 have attempted to accomplish to preserve my
16 piece of this community.
17 I'd like to explain my land and I'm
18 going to try to speak loud enough for
19 everybody to hear. Can everybody here?
20 Great. This is my 40 acres of land depicted
21 here with Big Stony Creek being the back
22 border of my land. The yellow is our
23 residential lots. These are residential
24 lots. This one is owned by Iris Brunell,
25 vacant, my home, vacant. Underground
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 33 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 utilities coming in serve these four lots.
3 The gray area is commercially zoned land,
4 three parcels. Each one of which I have
5 started. This is an improved storage
6 development of which I have one building up,
7 the pad poured for the second one in also
8 Ray Waldy's property of which I have a
9 letter from Mr. Waldy as he could not be
10 present. This is his existing storage
11 building and his proposed house. This
12 depicts a two-hundred foot right-of-way with
13 a cable in the middle. This is proposed to
14 go directly over Mr. Waldy's barn and without
15 encumbering any more of my development and
16 taking away actually is the effort that I
17 have applied to this land. I have a real
18 problem that there was inadequate planning to
19 accomplish this tasks of putting this cable
20 through my land, as I cannot make this work.
21 It looks as if this company is attempting to
22 drive a rope through the eye of a needle to
23 achieve a destination, and I just would like
24 an explanation of why this was accomplished.
25 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 34 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 those comments.
3 MR. PRICE: Could I read Mr. Waldy's
4 letter?
5 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Well, you can
6 either read it and/or hand it to us.
7 MR. PRICE: I'll submit it. Can I
8 read it?
9 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Apparently so, yes.
10 MR. PRICE: Ray Waldy and Sharon
11 Waldy own a parcel of land across the road
12 from me of which the transmission line is
13 depicted as going directly over their new
14 barn. "We have asked Mr. Peter Price, our
15 neighbor, his residence is across from our
16 property on New York State Route 3, to hand
17 carry our letter of concern to the power
18 line meeting at the Henderson, New York Town
19 Hall on Monday the 16th. Unfortunately, we
20 will not be able to attend this meeting due
21 to a conflict with having to be in Buffalo.
22 We have reviewed a copy of the
23 aerial overview of the proposed route for a
24 future power transmission line on November
25 11th. This proposed route goes directly over
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 35 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 our property, which includes an existing barn
3 at 8155 New York State Route 3, Henderson.
4 We are opposed to any transmission line that
5 would pass over our property. Our long
6 range plans in the future are to construct a
7 new home on the south side of our existing
8 barn on our 2.25 acres of land. We did not
9 notice that the black dotted lines on the
10 map, which leads us to believe that this
11 entire area would be considered for the
12 proposed power transmission line, one dotted
13 line north of our property, and the other
14 south of our property. After looking at the
15 area on the map, the area closer to the
16 dotted line south seems to make more sense.
17 Less impact on established population and
18 existing structures. Please note the most
19 southern area available would be our pick if
20 we had to pick an appropriate route for a
21 power transmission line. We would require
22 you to move the line further south. We
23 would not want power lines near our new home
24 on this parcel of land. I would like to
25 add also that unless I wouldn't have had my
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 36 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 ears to the ground I would not be here
3 today, because I have never been contacted in
4 any way, shape or form of this transmission
5 line."
6 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: This one I'll
7 definitely get wrong, but I'll give it a
8 try. Robert Aliasso.
9 MR. ALIASSO: With respect to the
10 crowd, I'm going to make my argument to Your
11 Honors' that are sitting here at the head
12 table. I have two letters, one of which I
13 am not reading, one of which I will read.
14 Both were given to the court stenographer and
15 he has those right now.
16 I'm Robert Aliasso representing the
17 Economic Development Committee part of the
18 Henderson Harbor Area Chamber of Commerce.
19 I'll start with the letter. This letter and
20 its attachment are entered into the public
21 record of the November 16th public hearing on
22 subject case hosted by the DPS in the Town
23 of Henderson and shall be made part of the
24 permanent case records.
25 Our Board and the business members
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 37 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 we represent are opposed to the project
3 adjoined Case 09-T-0049 and find many sources
4 of expected negative socio-economic benefit if
5 the DPS determines public need of said Case.
6 We are also opposed to the project based on
7 the environmental incompatibility when
8 considering the ecological and environmental
9 resources that will be devastated, damaged or
10 irreversibly altered.
11 After review of the published data
12 associated with this Case, as well as WTG
13 project DEIS, and data available from
14 knowledgeable third party reference sources,
15 we are very concerned with the negative
16 impact to our areas's delicate economy,
17 highly dependent upon tourism, recreation and
18 agricultural sectors, should the subject
19 project proceed. The need for dependable
20 alternative energy energy is very important,
21 but not at the expense of negative
22 socio-economic harm left in the wake of
23 developers such as Upstate NY Power Corp.
24 We have studied knowledgeable
25 reference sources such as Beacon Hill
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 38 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 Institute's Cost Benefit Analysis of Wind
3 Projects and Appraisal Group One Wind Turbine
4 Impact Study to postulate the extent of
5 negative socio-economic impact to our business
6 members and to this diverse area commonly
7 referred to as the Golden Crescent. The
8 attached letter from one of our our business
9 members, Association Island RV Resort and
10 Marina, LLC is attached and made part of
11 this letter. This business is one of the
12 highest properties in Henderson, physically
13 the closest to the wind turbine generation
14 project, the majority of the subaquatic
15 cable, and the landing point of the
16 subaquatic cable. Mrs. Shim's letter
17 summarizes many points very well, that
18 substantiate the project developer's
19 ineffectiveness in their project data to
20 recognize the economic impact to the Town of
21 Henderson, and in some case recognition at
22 all.
23 The main points of her letter
24 clearly outline the irreparable economic harm
25 they will be faced with should this project
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 39 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 proceed. The overall effect will be the
3 reverse of Economic Development that our
4 Chamber of Commerce is promoting - resulting
5 in economic survival. The developer provides
6 no in-depth economic impact analysis in their
7 project data, and we respectfully request
8 this data be provided for the benefit of
9 review by the DPS, DEC and the affected
10 towns. The decision by our New York State
11 lead agencies should be delayed until which
12 time adequate factual data can be provided by
13 the developer and analyzed by said parties.
14 If this project is as robust technically and
15 commercially as the seasoned developer Upstate
16 NY Power claims in their project data, this
17 request should be easily and timely
18 submitted.
19 The creation of jobs and supply
20 chain associated with the construction of
21 this project is also an unknown
22 benefit/impact. The WTG project will have
23 many components from foreign sources, or
24 supplied within the developer's overall
25 corporate structure. This is a contentious
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 40 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 issue, one which has received national
3 attention, especially the recent requwest from
4 Senator Schumer to halt a project in West
5 Texas due to large Federal subsidy
6 essentially creating jobs on foreign shores.
7 We implore the DPS to consider both the WTG
8 project and the transmission line construction
9 as one project when determining job creation,
10 effective use of federal money and long-term
11 economic impact to the host area.
12 Today, you will also hear from our
13 Chamber President, Mr. Karl Williams, who
14 will read several other member letters, and a
15 Town of Henderson Planning Board member, Mr.
16 Bob Ashodian. The latter will discuss in
17 depth the synergy between the Economic
18 Development Committee and the town of
19 Henderson Comprehensive Land Use Plan,
20 developed at substantial expense and
21 forethought as to the quality and character
22 of development that closely matches our
23 area's preservation of resources and future
24 business expansion plans. The proposed
25 project will severely harm our ability to
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 41 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 follow our Town's Plan for Economic
3 Development, limit our Committee's ability to
4 attract or maintain business, and degrade our
5 tax base by an expected sharp decline in
6 property values and thus business viability.
7 Regarding the agricultural and dairy
8 industry, prevalent in the area, and
9 essential to the routing of the proposed
10 Upstate NY Power Corporation's transmission
11 line, we have interviewed several farmers, a
12 few of which are candidates for the routing
13 of the transmission line. Overwhelmingly,
14 their feelings to this project are very
15 negative and considered a personal attack on
16 their freedoms, as a small family owned
17 business owner. They cite disruption to
18 their crops and livestock as highly probable
19 outcomes, both of which may force several of
20 these businesses to the beink of extinction.
21 We understand from these interviews that the
22 small subsidy they would receive for either
23 lump sum settlement or lease payments would
24 be outstripped several fold by loss of
25 revenue due to decreased milk production.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 42 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 Jefferson County has prided itself on its
3 well-established dairy and agricultural
4 industry - a decision to allow this project
5 to proceed would undo two centuries of blood,
6 seat and tears building a proud legacy of
7 these farms passed from parent to child and
8 so on.
9 If this project proceeds, we will be
10 faced with an irreversible and devastating
11 effect to our environment, local business,
12 dairy and agricultural economies, a degraded
13 tax base and sharply declining real estate
14 value. We ask that NYSDPS rule against the
15 public need for a 50.6 mile transmission
16 facility associated with Case 09-T-0049.
17 And with that and the attached
18 letter from Mrs. Shim that is attached which
19 the Court already has, I thank you for your
20 time.
21 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you, sir.
22 The next card I have is Karl Williams. Mr.
23 Williams.
24 MR. WILLIAMS: Good morning, Judges.
25 My name is Karl Williams. I will address
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 43 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 you out of respect. I am the President of
3 the Henderson Harbor Area Chamber of
4 Commerce, and a member of the Coalition For
5 the Preservation of the Golden Crescent.
6 Today, I have three letters, two are similar,
7 I will read two of them to you and I'll
8 give the letters over to the court
9 stenographer. Before I do though, I would
10 like to make one comment, and that is that
11 we've been appalled at the secrecy of this
12 process. This is not acceptable. I would
13 not have known about this unless a young
14 lady had meteorlogical tower sited in her
15 front yard. She began to ring the alarm
16 bells, and Peter Price had been hearing
17 things, nothing substantive but hearing a few
18 things, and we began to put these together
19 only to realize that we were involved in a
20 process that's been almost two-years in the
21 making, and we know our town leaders failed,
22 but we began to raise the issues, and I do
23 want to go on record of saying I do not
24 believe the process that is used in this
25 siting should be continued. It should be
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 44 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 stopped. It should be re-visited and the
3 community should be made aware in a better
4 fashion.
5 I'll be reading letters from people
6 that aren't here that are appalled. I'm
7 getting calls and emails from Washington,
8 D.C.; San Diego, California; Arlington,
9 Virginia. It's coming in daily, and these
10 people are very angry and they're angered
11 that they didn't get a chance to have a
12 debate any time earlier. The Chamber of
13 Commerce has filed as an interested party,
14 and I need to remind folks here in the room
15 that we've asked for a six month extension
16 in this process so that there can be an open
17 and fair debate.
18 The first letter I'll read to you is
19 from a woman by the name of Susan Washburn.
20 She resides at 13680 County Route 123,
21 Henderson Harbor, New York. She's the
22 principal in Powers Group of North Carolina,
23 Inc. She writes the following letter.
24 "Subject: Case 09-T-0049 Applications of
25 Upstate NY Power Group for Certificate of
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 45 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 Environmental Compatibility and Public Need
3 For a 50.6 mile 230kV Transmission Facility.
4 I own property in Henderson Harbor,
5 NY. As a citizen and taxpayer, I am very
6 concerned about the subject project
7 proceeding. The need for alternative energy
8 is very important, and I fully support it,
9 but not this current proposal.
10 The associated transmission facility
11 which the DPS is holding a public hearing
12 today, has prompted me to write this letter
13 to be read into the minutes of the meeting
14 and become part of our concern and complete
15 opposition to the WTG construction on Galloo
16 Island and the transmission facility. In
17 speaking with neighbors in the Town of
18 Henderson, it is apparent that there is an
19 overwhelming negative reaction regarding the
20 development of the project, and we suspect
21 you will receive many letters similar to
22 mine. Regrettably, I am not there to
23 represent myself at this meeting and hope
24 that this letter will serve to register my
25 opposition.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 46 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 We are aligned with the Coalition
3 for the Preservation of the Golden Crescent,
4 in an attempt to voice our concerns against
5 these projects. This Coalition is formed to
6 protect the Golden Crescent, a world renowned
7 fishery, hunting area and generally scenic
8 wonder. The area is comprised of the
9 various towns within Jefferson County and the
10 northern Oswego County towns. This is the
11 exact area targeted to build the transmission
12 facility for a poorly selected WTG project.
13 The 150 foot right of way traverses
14 through one of the most scenic portions of
15 our state, if not the country. It will
16 disturb countless protected species, fragile
17 lands, and fertile lands used for
18 agricultural/dairy needs. This is the same
19 area the NYSDEC placed protective custody
20 over the Double Breasted Cormorant several
21 years ago, and is the only known nesting
22 area in the state for the Caspian Tern.
23 Additionally, the area is highly dependent on
24 its lands for the two main employers, namely
25 tourism/recreation and agriculture, neither of
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 47 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 which disturb, nor devastate the environment
3 as Upstate NY Power Corporations's project
4 will, for the short and long term. This is
5 an area with a great diversity in the
6 population, migration and breeding of wildlife
7 including birds, animals and aquatic creatures
8 of many kinds. Henderson and Galloo Island
9 are also if significant and archeological
10 interest.
11 The placement of the line and the
12 determination to use a 230kV transmission
13 facility also concern us. In our research,
14 we determined that the original project
15 specifications called for 115kV transmission
16 facility for the same WTG project. We
17 believe it is the developer's intention to
18 build a substantially oversized transmission
19 facility in the hopes of luring new
20 developers in the area, or simply have a
21 facility to handle their future developments
22 in the area. Furthermore, the economic
23 evaluation for a complete subaquatic
24 transmission facility does not seem to be
25 present, or offered. Is this due to cost,
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 48 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 or simply that our suspicions are correct -
3 build it and they will come - more
4 developers will follow. ransmission in a
5 silt does not seem to be present or offered.
6 Is this due to cost, or simply that our
7 suspicions are correct - build it and they
8 will come - more developers will follow.
9 Unfortunately, the Henderson Town
10 Board and many Henderson citizens have only
11 very recently recognized the significant
12 implications of this project to the community
13 and our quality of life. We are gravely
14 concened that NYS would allow a project of
15 this magnitude, complexity and substantial
16 negative affect to our quality of life to
17 proceed, and NYS would provide acceptance for
18 this project with a majority of the residents
19 out of state at their winter homes. Why are
20 these meetings held when the majority of
21 citizens are not in the local area?
22 If this project proceeds, we will be
23 faced with an irreversible and devastating
24 affect to our environment, local business
25 economy, a degraded tax base and sharply
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 49 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 declining real estate value. We ask that
3 NYSDPS rule against the public need for a
4 50.6 mile transmission facility associated
5 with Case 09-T-0049. Susan Washburn." I
6 respectfully submit that letter for your
7 review.
8 The next letter is addressed to the
9 Honorable Judges here today. There will be
10 two letters of this type, and I will tell
11 you first who sent them so I won't have to
12 read them twice. The first is Sarah and
13 Jeffrey Haun, homeowners, 15321 Snowshoe Road,
14 Henderson, and the second one is Sharon
15 Graves, 6685 Whites Bay Road, South
16 Henderson, New York. "Subject case 09-T-0049
17 Application of Upstate NY Power Corp. for
18 Certificate of Environmental Compatibility and
19 Public Need for 50.6 mile 230kV Transmission
20 Facility.
21 After review of the DEIS available
22 on the developer's website, data available
23 from the NYS DEC and PSC, we are very
24 concerned about the subject project
25 proceeding. The need for alternative energy
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 50 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 is very important, but not at the extremely
3 high rates of subsidies that the Federal
4 Government will provide the developers, such
5 as Upstate NY Power Corporation, or limited
6 need for new, especially marginally efficient,
7 energy sources in this sector of the state.
8 The associated transmission facility
9 which the DPS is holding a public hearing
10 today, has prompted me to write this letter
11 to be read into the minutes of the meeting
12 and become record of our concern and complete
13 opposition to the WTG construction on Galloo
14 Island and the transmission facility. In
15 speaking with neighbors in the Town of
16 Henderson, it is apparent that there is an
17 overwhelming negative reaction regarding the
18 development of the project, and we suspect
19 you will receive many letters similar to
20 ours.
21 We are aligned with the Coalition
22 for the Preservation of the Golden Crescent,
23 in an attempt to voice our concerns against
24 these projects. This Coalition is formed to
25 protect the Golden Crescent, a world
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 51 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 renowened fishery, hunting area and generally
3 scenic wonder. The area is comprised of the
4 various towns within Jefferson County and the
5 northern Oswego County towns. This is the
6 exact area targeted to build the transmission
7 facility for a poorly selected WTG project.
8 The 150' right of way traverses
9 through one of the most scenic portions of
10 our state, if not the country. It will
11 disturb countless protected species, fragile
12 lands, and fertile lands used for
13 agricultural/dairy needs. This is the same
14 area the NYSDEC placed protective custody
15 over the Double Breasted Cormorant several
16 years ago, and is the only known nesting
17 area in the state for the Caspian Tern.
18 Additionally, the area is highly dependent on
19 its lands for the two main employers, namely
20 tourism/recreation and agriculture, neither of
21 which disturb, nor devastate the environment
22 as Upstate NY Power Corporation's project
23 will for the short and long term. This is
24 an area with a great diversity in population,
25 migration and breeding of wildlife including
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 52 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 birds, animals and aquatic creatures of many
3 kinds. Henderson and Galloo Island are also
4 of significant historical and archeological
5 interest.
6 The placement of the line and the
7 determination to use a 230kV transmission
8 facility also concern us. In our research,
9 we determined that the original project
10 specifications called for a 115kV transmission
11 facility for the same WTG project. We
12 believe it is the developer's intention to
13 build a substantially oversized transmission
14 facility in the hopes of luring new
15 developers in the area, or simply have a
16 facility to handle their future developments
17 in the area. Furthermore, the economic
18 evaluation for a complete subaquatic
19 transmission facility does not seem to be
20 present, or offered. Is this due to cost,
21 or simply that our suspicions are correct -
22 build it and they will come - more
23 developers will follow.
24 Unfortunately, the Henderson Town
25 Board and many Henderson citizens have only
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 53 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 very recently recognized the significant
3 implications of this project to the community
4 and our quality of life. We live in
5 California for the winter months as do a
6 majority of residents throughout the Golden
7 Crescent. We are gravely concerned that NYS
8 would allow a project of this magnitude,
9 complexity and substantial negative affect to
10 our quality of life to proceed, and NYS
11 would provide acceptance for this project
12 with a majority of the residents out of
13 state at their winter homes.
14 Similar opposition is ongoing in this
15 area near Cape Vincent, NY and throughout the
16 Finger Lakes region. The opposition for the
17 latter is very strong, as Honorable
18 Congressman Eric J. J. Massa (NY29) has taken
19 the position directly to President Barack
20 Obama and Energy Secretary Steven Chu.
21 Through our affiliation with the Coalition
22 for the Preservation of the Golden Crescent,
23 we have also appealed for similar support in
24 opposition to all state and federal
25 representatives.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 54 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 If this project proceeds, we will be
3 faced with an irreversible and devastating
4 effect to our environment, local business
5 economy, a degraded tax base and sharply
6 declining real estate value. We ask that
7 NYSDPS rule against the public need for a
8 50.6 mile transmission facility associated
9 with Case 09-T-0049. Sincerely, Sharon
10 Graves." I'll submit those to you.
11 I will make one statement in the
12 closing. As a Chamber, we have about 120
13 members. 75 are business members of small
14 and mid-sized companies. It was quite a
15 surprise to us we had that many businesses
16 here. We see this project as ruining our
17 economy as we know it, and we are deeply
18 worried. Thank you.
19 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for
20 those comments. The next speaker is Marie
21 Kardelis.
22 MS. KARDELIS: Good morning. Thank
23 you, Judge Stockholm and thank you Judge
24 Casutto for being here today. I have very
25 simple words. I'm a simple woman. I live
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 55 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 at 11327 Rays Bay Road, Henderson. We're on
3 the east side of the bay, so we're facing
4 the western sunset. I've never been
5 privileged to have any children of my own
6 but I am a retired educator of 38 years and
7 have had the great privilege and awesome
8 responsibilities of doing the best I can for
9 any child who came through my classroom. I
10 am compelled today just to stand up here and
11 say something to defend the future
12 generation. I have no medical data. I have
13 no scientific data. I have no economic data
14 as many of these fine people have who have
15 spoken today have, but I do have great
16 feelings of love for this area. I'm
17 originally from Pennsylvania. I've been
18 vacationing here since the 1980's. I have
19 owned land here since 1993 and I have lived
20 full time since 2001 when I retired. To say
21 that we're going to consider the aesthetic
22 impacts and to look at this area and realize
23 what other areas are going to have more
24 negative aesthetic impact than this area. We
25 owe it to our children. Our federal
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 56 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 government has already ruined their fiscal
3 lives for generations to come. We here in
4 Henderson need to preserve the beauty and the
5 quality that this land has to offer, and as
6 the years go by and if there is more and
7 more development throughout the area, we need
8 to safeguard such a special property. That's
9 all I have to say. Thank you for being
10 here.
11 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for
12 those comments. The next speaker I have is
13 Don Rossiter. Mr. Rossiter. It's Dan? I'm
14 sorry.
15 MR. ROSSITER: Okay. I'm Dan
16 Rossiter. We're dairy farmers in Ellisburg.
17 I wrote a few things down here. I hope I
18 won't ramble. I told my wife Sharon if we
19 were to address the PSC about some things
20 jot some things down and stick to the facts
21 and not get emotional, and I started to jot
22 some things down on my own and realized that
23 was impossible.
24 I don't know if it's true in all
25 walks of life, but these farms become not
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 57 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 only your livelihood but your life, your
3 dream. I'm not sure that the relentless
4 determination it takes to successfully run a
5 farm can be appreciated by everyone. Last
6 winter for us that way of life was
7 assaulted. We were informed that a company
8 called Upstate Power had plans to run a
9 power transmission line through the center of
10 our farm. Nobody knows better than us the
11 challenges and limitations involved with
12 trying to crop around poles. And, as our
13 farm has gotten bigger and more controlled
14 these obstacles become bigger and bigger.
15 The people proposing this line are not a
16 group of Northern New Yorker's as the name
17 would imply, but a group of wealthy investors
18 trying to cash in on the green subsidies
19 that are currently available. Their votes
20 aren't registered in the Henderson Harbor
21 area. They're registered in the Cayman
22 Islands. I guess they feel it's worth a
23 shot, the passage is clear. If we don't
24 mount a defense, it's money in their pockets.
25 I have always remained optomistic about dairy
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 58 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 farming in Northern New York. We have cold
3 weather and it's a harsh life for dairy
4 cows, but dairy farming like everything else
5 must compete in a global economy, and we
6 sure don't need any more obsticles thrown our
7 way. Hurting production would be bad for the
8 economic community and devastating for us.
9 If the line is approved, we don't know what
10 affect it would have on the big picture. We
11 don't know. But, I do know that we produce
12 over 20 million pounds of milk a year and
13 over 125,000 pounds of beef a year. What I
14 am asking the PSC is don't put this in our
15 path. There are other routes available.
16 This is prime farm land as it gets. Don't
17 let these people destroy our dream for their
18 own personal gain. The stakes are
19 irreversible for us. Thank you for
20 listening.
21 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: And now I do have
22 a card from Sharon. Mrs. Rossiter.
23 MS. ROSSITER: My name is Sharon
24 Brockett Rossiter. I live at 5601 New York
25 State Route 289 Mannsville, New York. I'm
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 59 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 here to voice my serious concerns and
3 opposition to the proposed route for the
4 Upstate NY Power Corp project. Upstate NY
5 Power Corp, a private company, wants to route
6 a transmission line through our farm land.
7 The route Upstate New York proposed would cut
8 through the very center of our farm.
9 Approximately four miles of the proposed high
10 power transmission line would run through our
11 farm's prime agricultural land. The reason
12 this power line is being proposed is to take
13 the green electricity from the proposed
14 Hounsfield wind farm project and Galloo
15 Island and get it to the electrical grid
16 where it can move around the state, most
17 likely to New York City. Right now, it's
18 politically correct to be green. The state
19 and federal green initiatives have provided
20 tax credits and carbon credits that have
21 apparently made these new ventures quite
22 lucrative. My husband Daniel and I are
23 dairy farmers. Much of our land is located
24 south of county route 85 and west of highway
25 29. Two large parcels also on Logdon Road.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 60 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 We also own two large parcels north of
3 Allard Road where Allard Road intercepts with
4 Johnson Road. As a dairy farmer and this
5 generation of dairy farmers whose livelihood
6 depends on this land, I'm here to tell you
7 that there's nothing green or earth friendly
8 about building a transmission line in the
9 middle of private land. The August 2009
10 version of the draft state energy plan
11 recommends that the state should encourage
12 cooperation in the development of electricity
13 transmission and distribution infrastructure on
14 state-owned lands. Certifying a route
15 through prime agricultural land is contrary
16 to those recommendations where there are real
17 identifiable routes that take advantage of
18 state-owned lands. The most obvious of these
19 is an underwater route from Galloo Island to
20 the NYPA substation in Scriba. Such a route
21 would be located for most of its distance on
22 underwater lands of the state, managed and
23 controlled by the State Office of General
24 Services. This route would have the least
25 negative visual impact and least environmental
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 61 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 impact for our towns and communities and
3 prime agricultural farm land. Other
4 alternative using state owned land also
5 exist. The state owns extensive land between
6 the shorelines of Lake Ontario and Route 3.
7 Locating the new transmission line parallel
8 to Route 3 on lands of the state would be
9 consistent with the state energy plan
10 recommendations to use state owned lands and
11 to take advantage of other established land
12 developments. Let the state and the
13 taxpayers see their green energy at work.
14 Governor Paterson has a special commission to
15 look at state assets. You can get the most
16 of the state asset surplus property through
17 deals like these. A line along the Route 3
18 state land would generate much needed
19 long-term revenue for the state. Another
20 route that takes advantage of an existing
21 transportation corridor would be one run from
22 Galloo Island to Hounsfield and then straight
23 east to 81. There looks to be some big
24 lines riding south down from Watertown on the
25 corridor of Route 81. The state could use
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 62 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 route 81 as the national interest electric
3 transmission corridor.
4 Part of our land proposed for this
5 project is an old abandoned 50 foot right of
6 way. It hasn't been used to transmit
7 electricity in approximately 20-years, and the
8 substation on both ends were sold
9 approximately 15 years ago. To use the
10 abandoned right of way isn't the right way.
11 To use the old right of way Upstate NY Power
12 wants more of our land on Allard Road that
13 isn't part of the right of way. Moreover,
14 the proposed line would have the capacity to
15 expand to a thousand kV. The Hounsfield
16 wind farm on Galloo Island only needs 230kV.
17 I walked the Allard route land wanted for
18 the proposed route with Andrew Davis of the
19 Department of Public Service staff. It was
20 heartwrenching to envision a 150 foot swath
21 cut down and through our land. I couldn't
22 bear to walk on the land with Mr. Davis.
23 This route crosses our land is heart
24 breaking. We just watched as a water line
25 approximately one-and-a-half miles was put
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 63 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 through our land. Total strangers came to
3 put this line in and showed no respect for
4 our property, the value of our land or the
5 food our land produced. They didn't always
6 stay in their right of way. They drove
7 their trucks in our field over newly planted
8 crops. Crops are sacred in our business.
9 They left metal strappings in our fields. The
10 metal detectors had to find it. We had to
11 stop the chopper every time we find one. We
12 stopped a lot. I'm sure when we turn our
13 land we will find more of their metal and
14 garbage. They parked all over our land.
15 They parked in our driveway. Couldn't seem
16 to stay in the driveways. When they would
17 leave, there was garbage, wrappers or empty
18 bottles. The proposed route would come 70
19 feet from houses and barns as it croses
20 Route 289. There are other newer homes
21 along the old right of way which isn't big
22 enough for the proposed transmission line.
23 We could lose about 50 to 100 acres of prime
24 agricultural land. We are a KAYFO farm. We
25 have complied with strict regulations from
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 64 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 New York DEC. I'm not sure how this will
3 impact our KAYFO plan. The destruction from
4 this proposed project will change our acres,
5 drainage on soil not just during construction
6 but for years to come. It is farms like
7 ours that make New York State rank as the
8 7th best place to farm in the United States,
9 and makes Jefferson County 4th in milk
10 produced in New York State and 51st in the
11 United States. It puts Jefferson County in
12 the top ten percent of the physically robust
13 counties nation wide. The economic impact of
14 Jefferson County's dairy industry is 42
15 million. We take great pried in our farm.
16 We employ 9 full-time people. Our herdsman
17 has worked with us for 25 hears. Our feeder
18 has worked with us 12 years. Our crop man
19 has worked with us for nine years. Our farm
20 runs 7 days a week 365 days a year. We
21 milk about eight hundred cows twice daily and
22 produce over 20 million pounds of milk. We
23 raise about 85 young stock, young stock being
24 heifer calfs up through calfs before entering
25 the milking herd. Our animals are treated
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 65 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 better than some people. They are fed twice
3 a day. They sleep on dry beds. Our
4 veterinarians come on routine days and are on
5 call day and night. Our nutritionist works
6 on feed rations used until grazing forage
7 ground on our farm. We farm approximately
8 1250 acres of prime class A farm land. On
9 our land we grow 750 acres of corn and 500
10 acres of hay. This year as well as otherw
11 we got five cuttings of hay. This is very
12 productive farm land. Last year September
13 15th Hurricane Ike hit devastating our corn
14 crop. Our corn silage that was to carry us
15 through to next year, our corn was bent over
16 about knee high and switched around. By
17 three in the afternoon we went to start
18 chopping. We would go two-hundred feet and
19 the the head would plug up. Back up.
20 Unplug the corn stalks. Another two-hundred
21 feet if we were lucky. We weren't making
22 much progress. Day three we invested over
23 $400,000 in a second chopper to save over
24 $300,000 of corn crop to feed our cows. I
25 learned to drive the old chopper in a couple
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 66 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 of hours. We were in survival mode.
3 Modifications were made on the choppers. Two
4 trucks could keep up with one chopper.
5 That's how slow we were going. We worked
6 all day long and into the night. Mother
7 Nature wasn't on our side. Rain came, and
8 with that mold would grow on our corn, so
9 time was critical. It was the most
10 challenging, stressful farm corn harvest I've
11 ever had. We finished chopping late Sunday
12 September 28th. My grandmother, 99 years old,
13 died that morning. My dad's mom, and we
14 kept working because that's what farmers do.
15 Our farm is more than cows, milk, and hay
16 and corn. It's our home. We see the
17 whitecaps on Lake Ontario. We watch the
18 storms roll in. We know spring is here when
19 the skies and our fields are full of
20 thousands of Canadian Geese and white snow
21 geese. Our farm land is part of their
22 migration path. We enjoy their stopping to
23 rest during the day or overnight stays.
24 When our land is being tilled, skies are
25 full of seagulls. When we plant corn, it
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 67 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 looks like we planted rows of seagulls.
3 They come in from the lake to feast off our
4 land. All you have to do is look to the
5 sky of seagulls and you know what piece of
6 land your neighboring farmer is working. The
7 seagulls are present during every cutting of
8 hay feasting off the field. We enjoy
9 watching the new fawns and their mothers.
10 We hear the coydogs and their pups yapping
11 at night. At times we see flocks of
12 pheasants and snowy owls rise along the skies
13 by our field. The hawks spread their wings
14 and slowly soar overhead. They come in
15 quick for a mouse or a bunny. Over all the
16 season cycles we watch the wildlife grow.
17 Come fall, the monarch butterflies and
18 dragonflies disappear. The turkeys are
19 strutting their stuff. The bucks are in
20 demand again. The skies and fields are full
21 of geese. We're part of their migration.
22 This is Mother Nature at her best. This is
23 what I see when I'm out working in the
24 fields. I'm blessed to work outside on this
25 land and to live with Mother Nature. When
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 68 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 we hay, our mower takes one 30-foot swath.
3 Three rows equal 10 feet. My husband rakes
4 45 feet into one row. We follow behind with
5 the chopper. Our trucks have flotation tires
6 to prevent compaction of the land. I
7 believe we have as individuals and farmers be
8 the best stewards of our beautiful land. We
9 work the land and hope to leave leave it a
10 better place for the next generation. My
11 three year old granddaughther says "I help
12 daddy plant the corn. I help daddy combine
13 the corn." She asks can she be a farmer
14 like you. Daddy is a farmer. Papa is a
15 farmer gentlemen and Joe's a farmer.
16 The economic loss to our farm would
17 be great and permanent for the life of our
18 farm. The environmental impact and permanent
19 damage to our prime agricultural land would
20 be irreplaceable and will affect all of us
21 for the rest of our lives, and will likely
22 affect the next several generations. There
23 are too many negative impacts and issues that
24 need to be addressed before this project's
25 proposed route moves forward any further. It
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 69 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 will devastate our farm land and the economic
3 impact will be felt for years to come.
4 Implicit in the proposed route across farm
5 land is a message that our lives, our
6 families, our health, our homes, our farms,
7 our prime farm land, our businesses and our
8 history and the tranquil natural beauty of
9 our community is less important than that of
10 others. I ask you to carefully consider the
11 impact the proposed route will have here in
12 southern Jefferson County, and to remember
13 that our farm land is what feeds our farm
14 and all of us. You can't build any more
15 land. You can't build any more prime
16 agriculatural land. You can build buildings,
17 roads, bridges, transmission lines and more
18 transmission lines. You can't build any more
19 prime agricultural land. Please make my
20 comments part of the record and give your
21 greatest consideration to ways to save our
22 farm land from the impacts of a poorly
23 planned or poorly built power line. Our way
24 of life, our health, our prime agricultural
25 farm land and the tranquil beauty of our
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 70 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 rural towns and community are at stake.
3 Thank you for your attention.
4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. The
5 next speaker I have is Nancy Lane-Moore.
6 MS. LANE-MOORE: I don't really have
7 a statement. I just have some questions
8 that I want formally answered. Are there
9 other options still available to be
10 considered as to where this transmission line
11 will be located? Why was this route chosen?
12 I realize that there is not any place local
13 to attach to the grid, but as the Galloo
14 Island project is located in the Town of
15 Hounsfield and they have the most to gain
16 why are the transmission lines coming ashore
17 in Henderson? The JCIDA stated at a meeting
18 that this would be a boon for any town
19 involved in regards to the transmission lines
20 as they will be fully taxable. How much are
21 the cost projections for the towns involved?
22 How is this calculated? Will the property
23 values depreciate based on the transmission
24 lines going through the properties involved?
25 If so, by how much of a percentage? How
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 71 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 will the project inpact the residents of the
3 other towns? How will the project pay for a
4 loss in revenue if it is deemed that the
5 Galloo Island project ruins the view shed for
6 the Town of Henderson. Why couldn't you
7 build another substation in Watertown to
8 handle the line? Why can't they run the
9 subaquatic line all the way to Mexico? Thank
10 you.
11 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. I
12 think I lost track of the questions, but the
13 answer to at least one of those questions
14 with regard to is there an opportunity to
15 look at other alternatives whether they've
16 been discussed today or not, and the answer
17 is clearly yes. All of the parties in the
18 case will have an opportunity at a schedule
19 which we haven't set yet, but at some point
20 in the litigation schedule all of the parties
21 will have an opportunity to propose
22 alternatives, and those alternatives will be
23 examined on the record. So, sort of the
24 long and short of the answer to your
25 question is yes, there will be a number of
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 72 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 opportunities to look at other alternatives.
3 The next speaker I have is Christine
4 Flitcroft.
5 MS. FLITCROFT: I don't want my back
6 to anybody. I don't want any cameras on. I
7 have a severe anxiety disorder and used to
8 live on Route 3 at the corner of 1523 Stony
9 Creek Road. There was a spill. We could
10 not get the DEC or the state to do anything
11 about it. They were only concerned with
12 digging dirt out and could not go across
13 Route 3 because the DEC could not get a
14 permit from the state. So, there is still a
15 spill down on Route 3. So, I don't have
16 much faith in the DEC or the state because
17 they would not check our water. They would
18 not check our house, basement and soil around
19 our house. Finally, we went to the doctor.
20 The doctor got the DEC to do a water test
21 on our well, and it came with pages missing,
22 and finally the doctor told us to move out
23 of the that house and off that property. We
24 then moved in 2002 out on to the Hovey Road,
25 which is a direct sight to Stony Island and
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 73 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 Galloo Island. The proposed transmission
3 statement or station that's coming up right
4 next to Little Marsh, which as far as I know
5 is wetland is less than half-a-mile from my
6 home. I've never been notified. Apparently
7 from talking to people here, the transmission
8 line routes have been changed so much that
9 property owners were not notified, and which
10 I don't really understand. We ourselves our
11 power lines and telephone lines are buried
12 underground from our road, which is a
13 dead-end road. We moved there for the right
14 to piece, quiet, environmentally friendly use
15 of our land, and there have been studies
16 done where the transmission lines can cause
17 cancer and other health issues, and with a
18 severe anxiety disorder and post-traumatic
19 stress disorder, I'm very afraid, very afraid
20 of what these power lines are going to do,
21 because there's been studies both ways and
22 nobody can get give a straight answer. Our
23 property values will depreciate, not only the
24 property owners that have it on their
25 property. Of course, they're going to get
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 74 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 paid, but the rest of us that have to look
3 at them or drive out along, say we want to
4 sell our property. Our property value is
5 going to go down. We already can see the
6 lights from Wolff Island from our home. So,
7 I have a feeling that we probably wouldn't
8 have to have an outside light if there were
9 lights on Galloo Island the same way as the
10 ones on Wolff Island. There is going to be
11 construction noise, drilling, and no time
12 frame has been given for that. There will
13 also be maintenance that will have to be
14 done which will also cause noise. The
15 height of the steel mono poles have not been
16 disclosed. It depends on the land.
17 On the pictures that were shown on
18 the board you notice the transmission lines
19 were lower than the trees. That doesn't
20 make a whole lot of sense to any of us,
21 because you can see them. They're about
22 even with the trees. The photos that, the
23 maps on the back table they're at least
24 seven years outdated, plus my home isn't even
25 shown on the maps. So, they should get some
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 75 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 more photo maps that are within the last
3 year, I would say. Whaley State Park is a
4 new state new park that is less than a mile
5 from where this transmission station where
6 it's going to come up from the lake. It
7 will ruin the view from there. There's
8 walking trails all along to the lake and you
9 will be able to see the wind mills, the
10 lights, because we can already see them now
11 and the steam from where we live. And, as
12 far as people, property owners say no,
13 there's eminent domain, which anybody can say
14 no, and the state, town, whatever can take
15 your property whether you like it or not.
16 Same thing like when they're building roads
17 out. They can take part of your front yard
18 if they want to, and that's what's going to
19 happen. People are going to say no, too
20 bad. We'll go eminent domain and some
21 property owners with the transmission lines
22 on their properties will be paid, but the
23 rest of us, what are we going to get. An
24 eyesore. Possibly negative health impacts.
25 Negative environmental impacts. On our
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 76 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 property alone we have the geese both
3 Canadian and White Geese, migratory birds and
4 those Monarch butterflies gather on our
5 property in the thousands. We have walking,
6 biking, hunting. All of that. We just all
7 in Henderson live here because we want to
8 live in a natural environmentally safe area,
9 and no one in town wanted wind power because
10 of the scenic area that it is. So, why
11 should we allow wind power on an island that
12 is basically in our town, although we do not
13 reap the benefits of any of this. We are
14 just going to reap the benefits of eyesores,
15 potential health problems. And, you know,
16 it's like they can do all this, but they
17 can't even get rid of a swallow worm.
18 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you, ma'am.
19 The next speaker I have is Garrett McCarthy.
20 MR. MCCARTHY: Good afternoon. My
21 name is Garrett McCarthy. I just live up on
22 the hill over here on Route 178. Everybody
23 has been adding fine contributions to the
24 discussion here today. My thing was sort of
25 following just what the lady had spoken about
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 77 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 just a moment ago is the potential health
3 risks to our water quality. You know, this
4 is my third time asking this question in
5 public forums here in this room since last
6 year. I asked in the two previous meetings
7 what has already been done by the proposed
8 power developers that they have laid down
9 transmission lines, what herbicides are they
10 intending to use to keep down the vegetation
11 as these lines zig zag across through the
12 different townships all the way down on their
13 proposed route. I have not seen the data
14 yet or the actual herbicide information as to
15 what's being used, because last year it
16 really became apparent from watching what the
17 State Department of Transportation, New York
18 Department of Transportation, what they're
19 using on Route 81 pretty indiscriminately and
20 when you're on it next summer when you drive
21 up and down Route 81 and you see the brown
22 scalded patches on every structure, every
23 guardrail, every mile marker, and that's
24 bringing concern about what this project,
25 what herbicides can we expect that they're
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 78 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 going to be using and supply the information
3 because our water tower draws from the lake,
4 so with each subsequent rain and as the
5 spring occurs and keeping the present
6 vegetation down from these proposed
7 transmission lines, how does that end up in
8 our water source, and what trace elements can
9 we be looking for to be in our water tower,
10 our filtration system sufficient enough to
11 keep that our. We think we're comfortable
12 here with a municipal water system, but if
13 it's drawing from the lake and these
14 transmission lines have the towers that are
15 being sprayed, we don't know that information
16 yet, and if these transmission lines are
17 being built not to just to accommodate the
18 Galloo Island project but for future turbines
19 whether this town is able to keep it's eight
20 thousand foot setback in place, or if it's
21 weakened by other municipalities and other
22 towns that aren't going to touch their zoning
23 and we end up with more turbines from here
24 to Mexico, those things have over 400 gallons
25 worth of lubrication oils and things. So,
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 79 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 if something breaks down, that's 400 gallons
3 that spills into our soil, which we know is
4 only about a few feet of actual soil before
5 it hits bedrock, what do we do for a clean
6 up? What do we look for in a contingency
7 plan? Does the power company have a plan
8 for when one of those things fails? That
9 brings it not just this line coming through
10 but the potential of our turbines being put
11 in, and that's why it's being proposed as
12 more than meeting the needs of Galloo. It's
13 also for the future turbines they intend on
14 trying to propose for the north country.
15 So, if we were peppered with turbines and we
16 are having to use more pesticides to keep
17 that down, that only adds to our water
18 quality concerns. We all know about wells
19 and we all know about water quality and how
20 it effects our health relates to my question
21 on what herbicides and what information on
22 keeping the vegetation down on existing
23 transmission lines you already have in place.
24 Thank you.
25 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I can't give you
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 80 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 specific names of herbicides, but I can tell
3 you that the use of herbicides is first of
4 all usually very site specific, number one,
5 and number two, that is an issue that will
6 be litigated in this case. Herbicides are
7 always addressed in some great detail. So,
8 for what that's worth, it will be examined
9 in the case. I guarantee you. The next
10 card I have is from Ron Murray. Mr. Murray.
11 No? Had to leave. Okay. The next card I
12 have is John Gaus.
13 MR. GAUS: My name is John Gaus.
14 My family owns farm land in the Town of
15 Watertown, Town of Hounsfield and water-front
16 property in the Town of Hounsfield and I am
17 opposed to this project and would like to
18 share some reasons with you why I am.
19 Before I do that, I would just like to talk
20 about the process and express some amazement
21 at some of the the things I have heard this
22 morning. I think it was counsel for the
23 developer who stood up in front of us and
24 told us about these heroic efforts to notify
25 all landowners about what was going on with
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 81 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 respect to the project. I think I heard
3 most of the landowners stand up and say they
4 had no idea what was going on with the
5 project. If that's the case, counsel for
6 the developer ought to be ashamed of himself.
7 If he's admitted to the bar in New York
8 State and knowingly made a false statement in
9 front of these honorable judges, he should be
10 immediately grieved to the New York State bar
11 ethics commission.
12 One request for information I would
13 like to request from the developer is his
14 mailing list and a detailed description of
15 his efforts to notify the landowners in which
16 the transmission line is intended to be built
17 and when he mailed those out, please, and we
18 can --
19 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Let me interrupt,
20 excuse me, sir. It seems to me that's a
21 perfectly legitimate request. Mr. Ward? Is
22 Mr. Ward here. Would the Applicant agree to
23 provide that mailing list and the times of
24 the mailings?
25 MR. GAUS: Along with the airplane
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 82 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 data.
3 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: One thing at a
4 time.
5 MR. WARD: I've had several people
6 come up to me already that triggered a lot
7 of angst here. I want to be very clear
8 when we originally proposed this line, when
9 we originally investigated the line going
10 back two-and-a-half years we contacted, and
11 this is from memory, has to be over three
12 hundred people were contacted along the
13 route, different routes, and I felt like we
14 talked to everybody.
15 MR. GAUS: Then why don't you
16 provide us a copy.
17 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Sir, excuse me.
18 Let me just have a conversation with him
19 first.
20 MR. WARD: We've had conversations
21 with a lot of people in person, and
22 obviously correspondence and so forth with
23 literally hundreds of landowners along the
24 broader swath when we were trying to put in
25 a route.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 83 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Do you have
3 written records?
4 MR. WARD: Yes, we do, but those
5 are correspondence with individuals who
6 engaged in options and so forth. What
7 happened from that was we ran into groups
8 who did not want lines. We ran into groups
9 who did want the line and wanted the money.
10 Some people complained. They said "Why
11 didn't you notify us?" So in the end, based
12 on community input we did. so there may be
13 people in this group who were not notified.
14 As I said before, we notified a lot of
15 people in the community generally. We've
16 been in in room several times. I know I've
17 been in this room several times. So, we
18 have done our best to notify people and let
19 them know with respect to this line. Only
20 if they were on the original route would
21 they have been contacted.
22 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I appreciate that
23 explanation, but if I could ask you if you
24 have a list of the people to whom you have
25 communicated in writing, if you could provide
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 84 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 that list.
3 MR. WARD: Yes, we do have that
4 list.
5 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. I think
6 I finally got what you wanted.
7 MR. GAUS: Thank you, Your Honor. I
8 would also be interested in knowing if any
9 of the landowners on whose property the
10 current line is planned have been notified.
11 Show of hands? Anybody?
12 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Okay. Wait. Time
13 out.
14 We have to keep a certain process
15 here, and I have asked the Applicant to
16 provide some information with regard to
17 written contacts made with certain people.
18 The floor is this gentleman's. If he wants
19 to ask the audience how many people were
20 contacted, if I could just ask you all to
21 raise your hands whoever was contacted.
22 Okay, sir, I'll say for the record that I
23 don't see any hands raised. Now, if you
24 would get back to your comments.
25 MR. GAUS: Wind power seems like a
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 85 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 good idea. I know in the renewable energy
3 industry wind power seems lkike a good idea
4 at first, but in many cases industrial wind
5 information has been an absolute failed
6 experiment. The only people making enough
7 money on it are the developers and the owner
8 operators. Wind is intermittent. Our power
9 lines are not. That means we only get power
10 from a wind farm when the wind blows. Our
11 power requirements are 24 hours a day. If
12 you look at the nameplate capacity of wind
13 power projects and how much wind they
14 actually produce and you look at further the
15 projections of how much power or wind
16 development produces versus what it actually
17 produces, it's a damning condemnation on the
18 economics of wind power. The only reason
19 any wind power exists at all is for the
20 subsidy and that subsidy primarily lands in
21 the pockets of developers and owner operator
22 utilities, and it's become an industry where
23 these developers are stick-up men using
24 lawyers as their gun. They're here to make
25 a lot of money. Make no mistake about it.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 86 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 If you take a look into how much money they
3 really make, they intend to make hundreds of
4 millions of dollars. So the idea that you
5 would settle as a town or board of a town
6 or a county for a pittance in the form of a
7 PILOT payment is absolutely laughable. That
8 law firm will make more money in the next 18
9 months than the Town of Hounsfield will make
10 in the next eight years as a PILOT payment
11 that they just agreed to. These guys are
12 here eco-terrorists to get a big bag of
13 money and take it home, and I don't think we
14 should let it happen. Our tax base could be
15 absolutely eroded in the form of decreased
16 land values for our farms and water-front
17 properties all at the expense of getting
18 rich. These guys are rich guys. These are
19 guys that own homes on Nantucket and Martha's
20 Vineyard. They're not arguing a wind power
21 project in their backyard because they've
22 already killed every single proposal. Let it
23 kill them here as well, and there's lots of
24 reasons why I think it's fair for our town
25 boards and our county legislatures to ask
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 87 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 questions about who exactly is Upstate, the
3 developing company. Who are the people that
4 own it? Who are the officers and directors?
5 What are their addresses? What is their net
6 worth? Do we have a copy of the prospective
7 and ask how much money they're intending to
8 make on these projects, because it's a large
9 sum of money. I'm going to talk about in a
10 minute the things we are going to do so
11 these guys cannot laugh all the way to the
12 bank as they leave town. The project is a
13 monstrosity. Galloo Island is a major
14 stopover for migratory water fowl. One of
15 the biggest migratory fly lanes on the
16 planet. It's laughable to me that we're
17 even talking about putting industrial
18 infrastructure on there. That plan would be
19 an absolute forgive the word rape of our
20 landscape. I don't think our town board
21 members or county legislators ought to take
22 any part of that rape of our landscape and
23 environment and make a big bag of money in
24 the process and leave us with a mess
25 afterwards. This is not a case of nimby,
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 88 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 not in my backyard. Northern New York has
3 already done it's fair share. We heard
4 about the Wolff Island lights. We have
5 already damaged the St. Lawrence River
6 rendering extinct the Atlantic Salmon. We
7 have damaged every small river in in upstate
8 New York with running mills or putting power.
9 It's not a case of nimby. We have done our
10 fair share, and most of the people here are
11 living in the shadow of a nuclear site. So,
12 there are absolutely better alternatives than
13 wind that cost less money in the way of
14 development and being there's a facility in
15 Lyonsdale the size of that facility could be
16 tripled. If a coal fired plant at Fort Drum
17 that size could be expanded and could become
18 a coal-fired facility and we would not need
19 to spend a grotesque amount of dollars on
20 projects that are upside down economically
21 and leave us with an environmental disaster.
22 a far lesser amount of money we could spend
23 and get a much better result with less
24 environmental impact. If you are on a town
25 board or county legislator, I would urge you
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 89 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 to take the time and learn about the
3 millions and millions of dollars being made
4 by wealthy wind farm project developers and
5 owner operators to at least get a sense of
6 what you're giving up in PILOT negotiations
7 in terms of economics, because the same guy
8 that got up here and probably lied to us
9 about the efforts he went to to notify all
10 you landowners, he is probably going to get
11 a bonus for having duped most of our town
12 boards and town legislators into a
13 ridiculously low PILOT payment. So, I urge
14 you local officials not be an accompliace to
15 eco-piratry. If you are in favor of a wind
16 power project locally, and I could certainly
17 understand why people would do it, why you
18 would just cram it past your neighbors and
19 stuff their pockets, I don't know. If we
20 really wanted a wind power project, we could
21 certainly form a group of intelligent people
22 in our community to develop our own wind
23 power project. We don't need to line the
24 pockets of those guys. No way. If you're
25 a landowner, say no. I would love to be at
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 90 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 the public forum where you landowners are
3 getting eminent domain crammed down your
4 throat by a bunch of communists. I would
5 love the town to say no. If you're a
6 landowner say no, say no, say no to this
7 stuff on your property.
8 I just got a couple questions in the
9 form of requests for information, if I would
10 be able to. I think that our community
11 ought to be entitled to a list of the power
12 projects in New York State, what their
13 nameplate capacity is, the name of the
14 developer of that project, a report of the
15 actual outputs in those projects, and I
16 believe that our New York State PSC is very
17 familiar with the fact that most projects are
18 producing well below their planned capacities,
19 which is a damning indictment against the
20 economics of wind power. It's a fact most
21 projects do not produce what they say they're
22 going to produce. If you're a town or a
23 county and your PILOT payment is based on
24 the actual production, you're being duped.
25 You're absolutely being duped. I think it's
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 91 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 fair we ask for the list of the projects,
3 the names of those projects, the reports of
4 the actual outputs of those projects since
5 they've been built, records pertaining to the
6 transfer of those projects from the developer
7 to the current owner operator and the price
8 at which those projects were transferred and
9 the magnitude of dollars involved. It's also
10 fair I think to ask the PSC those in New
11 York State what they produce, what they say
12 they will produce, where the backup power
13 comes from. I can tell you right now it
14 comes from fossil fuel. There's some people
15 making arguments that false reliance on large
16 scale wind projects has actually increased
17 our reliance on fossil fuels because they
18 couldn't operate to their capacity. I think
19 it's fair we ask the PSC with respect to
20 those past projects for a list of all the
21 temporary use permits that were issued so if
22 you're a land owner you need to know about
23 these temporary land use permits and ask the
24 PSC for a list of those instances where
25 that's happened. That's all I have. Thank
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 92 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 you.
3 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for
4 those comments. I would just point out that
5 temporary use permits are local government
6 documents. That's nothing that we do. The
7 next speaker is Ginger Cook.
8 MS. COOK: Yes, my name is Ginger
9 Cook, and I'm a home owner here as well as
10 being vice president of the
11 Belleville-Henderson school board, and I've
12 lived here for over 35 years. My family has
13 lived here for over 35 years, and our whole
14 family has a combination of over 400 acres
15 here in the Henderson area. First of all,
16 the map has changed several times. We were
17 not given notice of the proposed transmission
18 line. We thought it was 500 feet behind our
19 house, but looking now at the maps it's
20 actually 400 feet behind our house. My
21 husband has to work today, so he couldn't be
22 here. We've been to several other meetings
23 here and we were not allowed to speak. You
24 had to write down a question on a card, and
25 if they felt the question was acceptable then
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 93 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 they would ask the question. This is the
3 first public fourm that I have been to where
4 you're actually allowed to speak and speak
5 your opinion. So, I wanted you to be aware
6 of that.
7 I feel that Upstate Power Corporation
8 was not adequately prepared today. At one
9 point, the gentleman said "Oh, I don't have
10 a map of that." He was here to give us a
11 presentation, and now is the time to have
12 all your ducks in a row, the maps and what
13 not. I thought that was unacceptable. I
14 think it's unacceptable with the amount of
15 money that they're going to make that they
16 cannot send out notices to the people on
17 this new proposed route. It's absolutely
18 ludicrous. Another thing, the mono poles,
19 the pictures were unclear. What do they
20 really look like? From that picture, you
21 could not tell what they actually will look
22 like. I feel that Upstate Power is basing
23 all of the proposals on profit, money and
24 it's basically greed. The subaquatic cable
25 underwater would cost a lot more money, we're
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 94 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 are aware of that, but he was talking about
3 where the placement of this windmill farm on
4 Galloo Island was the best visual, the best
5 acceptable place for it. Well, what about
6 the visual and the acceptable place for the
7 transmission lines. So, I feel that they
8 should take a better look at that. I have
9 friends and family that live in Hounsfield.
10 It's not an easy thing, but they're ecstatic.
11 They're going to get most of the reward.
12 The Sacket's Harbor school district will
13 greatly benefit from this. Our children here
14 at the Belleville-Henderson school district
15 will not benefit from this. Their parents,
16 their grandparents, their families all are
17 going to have adverse effects of these power
18 transmission lines running through their
19 property, and like the earlier speakers we
20 have a beautiful, beautiful shoreline here.
21 We have beautiful farm land here that is
22 absolutely irreplaceable. If you need to
23 upgrade the Watertown substation, upgrade it.
24 Build a new one. It doesn't take a rocket
25 scientist to figure that out. If these lines
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 95 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 were to go through the Town of Hounsfield,
3 there would be a public outcry. They would
4 not want these lines running through their
5 beautiful quaint little village. Let's be
6 honest about that. My son has been an
7 electrical apprentice working for the
8 electrical union. I have friends in the
9 electrical union that have worked on, under
10 and over these mono poles. My son's
11 childhood home is now in jeopardy. If these
12 poles are erected, he will now be able to
13 walk out back of our house and hold a
14 flourescent bulb in his hand and have it
15 light up magically. Isn't that wonderful to
16 think that of your childhood home and have
17 this go on. I hope people are aware of
18 that. This whole process has been done very
19 sneakily. We are a small caring
20 compassionate community. We are not a bunch
21 of country bumpkins that are going to be
22 bulldozed over. We are going to ban
23 together, the Bellville-Henderson community,
24 and we're going to do what it takes to stop
25 this. And to not be informed, not be
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 96 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 notified, this is just an absolute atrocity,
3 and I hope everyone will look at the picture
4 on the wall here, the print of Samuel D.
5 Champlain. A lot of you probably don't know
6 who he is, but we have great history in this
7 area. This print was originally in the the
8 Henderson library here at the school where I
9 graduated from. When the two schools merged,
10 this print was taken to the
11 Belleville-Henderson now one school over in
12 Belleville and it was placed in the
13 auditorium. Well the forefather's here and
14 so on decided we think this needs to be put
15 back here in the Henderson community, so it
16 was loaded on a truck with great care a lot
17 of people giving their time and energy and
18 it was brought back here and placed in this
19 beautiful case.
20 Now, these transmission lines when
21 you go up 178 will be not far from where
22 Samuel D. Champlain came here and landed, and
23 with this historical value we just have to
24 think of these things also. I'm just
25 wondering if the power company did any
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 97 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 research on the historical value of the
3 property around here. First and foremost,
4 just please consider all these comments,
5 because we are very caring people and we
6 live in a small community and we all love it
7 here or we would not be here. A lot of
8 people will consider moving if this comes
9 through, and it will be impossible to replace
10 this place that we all live and call home.
11 So, please take all of our comments into
12 consideration. Thank you for your time.
13 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you, and,
14 yes, ma'am, we will take all of your
15 comments into consideration. I can promise
16 you that. The next speaker I have is Jay
17 Matteson.
18 MR. MATTESON: Thank you. I'm Jay
19 Matteson, Chief Executive Officer for the
20 Jefferson County Agricultural Development
21 Corporation. The Jefferson County
22 Agricultural Development Corporation has been
23 aware of the proposed transmission line to
24 deliver electricity from the proposed Galloo
25 Island Wind Farm through Jefferson County
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 98 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 into Oswego County where the new transmission
3 line will interconnect with an existing
4 transmission line, since the project was
5 first proposed. We worked with Upstate NY
6 Power Corporation, the NYS Department of
7 Agriculture and Markets and the residents of
8 Jefferson County to help convey information
9 in an open and transparent manner so that
10 Jefferson County residents could make well
11 informed decisions regarding the sale of
12 property easements for the placement of the
13 transmission line.
14 Today, we bring to the attention of
15 the NYS Public Service Commission several
16 concerns regarding the placement of this
17 transmission line. 1. Jefferson County's
18 agricultural industry is a $500 million
19 dollar industry that directly employs over
20 1000 people. Our dairy farms for example
21 provide jobs that pay, on average, over $13
22 per hour plus benefits. The dairy farms in
23 this county pay an average of over $40 per
24 cow in taxes every year to municipalities and
25 schools. And, Dan and Sharon, if I could
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 99 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 use you as an example just to give Dan a
3 little backup, a dairy farm with 800 cows
4 has a total economic impact, when you look
5 at all the multipliers, of over eleven
6 million dollars a year. So, when you impact
7 the dairy farms in Jefferson County, it has
8 a huge impact on our economy. A 100 cow
9 dairy pays over $4,000 in taxes.
10 Agricultural business in many of these rural
11 towns are the largest employer, tax payer,
12 utility payer, and large part of the fabric
13 of these communities, outside of government
14 and school districts. It is imperative that
15 any proposal that disrupts our agricultural
16 businesses take into account how important
17 agriculture is to our local economies. A
18 proposal to build a transmission line does
19 not just take a small footprint of land for
20 a few poles, it permanently disrupts a local
21 economy through the building, maintenance and
22 displacement for the transmission line. 2.
23 When a power line is sited on agricultural
24 land, it has a tremendous impact to the
25 farming operation. Dan and Sharon did a
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 100 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 much better job in describing the impact on
3 the land. We've been promised the
4 construction operation will take every measure
5 to minimize that impact. But once you begin
6 to displace the topsoil, it takes years for
7 the topsoil to become as valuable as it once
8 was. In addition, when promises are not
9 kept as well as they should be, as is
10 evidenced in many of these projects, the
11 burden falls on the landowners shoulders to
12 encourage the companies involved to fix the
13 problems they leave behind. This time and
14 burden has significant value to these
15 business owners. It is lost revenue from
16 less yielding soils and the value of time
17 not spent on the business because the owner
18 is chasing companies not interested in coming
19 back once they've moved their equipment. In
20 addition, the footprint of the towers causes
21 a permanent disruption in cropping patterns,
22 that, while compensated for in a one-time
23 payment to the current landowner, cause a
24 permanent loss to future generations of
25 landowners and our economy as a whole. In
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 101 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 addition, the land is no longer available for
3 development of agricultural buildings and
4 structures, limiting the potential for
5 economic development in the community. 3.
6 The Jefferson County Agricultural Development
7 Corporation calls upon the State of New York
8 to evaluate why a project, such as this
9 proposed transmission line, when it is
10 suggested to benefit the public as a whole,
11 is not sited on public lands. These public
12 lands are paid for by the taxpayer to
13 benefit everyone in New York Sate. Why
14 then, when the power generated from this
15 proposed wind farm, will have little benefit
16 to Jefferson County residents, and will
17 disrupt our agricultural businesses and
18 private landowners, is the burden placed on
19 us and not upon all the taxpayers in the
20 State? Much of this proposed line could be
21 placed on New York State land, lessening the
22 burden on the local community. Environmental
23 impacts can be mitigated, and the New York
24 State Department of Environmental Conservation,
25 in exercising its authority to regulate the
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 102 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 environment of our State, will work to
3 oversee environmental impacts on the private
4 lands this line is proposed for, as much as
5 it would if the line were placed on private
6 land. 4. In the event that a landowner is
7 firmly against the sale of an easement for
8 placing the transmission line, the Jefferson
9 County Agricultural Development Corporation is
10 firmly opposed to the use of eminent domain
11 to take private property from a citizen of
12 Jefferson County to build a transmission line
13 or wind power project. These projects, as
14 they are proposed, will have minimal value to
15 the residents of Jefferson County. No one
16 person or persons should lose their rights to
17 their land for the purpose of siting an
18 electric transmission facility or wind farm
19 project.
20 Agriculture, because we own large
21 expanses of open land, unfortunately bears
22 the burden of proposed projects such as this
23 transmission line all too often. It is
24 important for New York State to recognize
25 that agriculture is citically important to
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 103 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 our local economies and the fabric of our
3 rural communities. Projects that change the
4 way we do business, in a negative manner,
5 should be critically evaluated as to their
6 impact on jobs, the local tax base, and the
7 impact on our economy. When state land is
8 available that is not any more valuable
9 environmentally than neighboring private land,
10 these transmission facilities projects should
11 be sited on the available public land. The
12 burden should be on New York State and the
13 company proposed the project to prove to the
14 local landowners why their land is any less
15 environmentally important than the public
16 lands nearby. In no case should eminent
17 domain be used to take land away from
18 agricultural businesses that provide jobs and
19 stimulate our local economy. On behalf of
20 the Board of Directors of the Jefferson
21 County Agricultural Development Corporation, we
22 encourage the NYS Public Service Commission
23 to strongly consider agriculture when making
24 decisions regarding this project. Thank you.
25 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: The next speaker I
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 104 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 have is David, and I apologize, but I cannot
3 read this writing.
4 MR. STAIE: Staie. I just want to
5 say I'm opposed to the site of the
6 transmission line. I was on the original
7 notification two-years ago, and I didn't
8 receive anything. The transmission line is
9 going directly over top of an active
10 limestone quarry. We blast two to three
11 times a year, and it also crosses within 300
12 feet of an office for our main office. So,
13 I just wanted to say that I'm opposed to the
14 transmission line.
15 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. And the
16 last card that I have is Robert Ashodian.
17 MR. ASHODIAN: Thank you for giving
18 me the opportunity to speak again. I spoke
19 earlier as a member of the Henderson Harbor
20 Area Chamber of Commerce. I would like now
21 to speak as just a plain old community
22 member. I have a home down there in
23 Henderson Bay, and I just want to state my
24 personal comments. Personally, I am
25 concerned about turning the entire eastern
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 105 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 end of Lake Ontario into a giant wind farm.
3 Here's a map of Lake Ontario. The most
4 prestigious portion is the northeastern end.
5 Henderson Harbor is here. From Henderson
6 Harbor, we can see the wind towers way
7 across at Wolff Island. Wolff Island is
8 over in Canada that's 25 miles away straight
9 line. Galloo Island is right here. It is
10 six miles from Stony Point shore. It will
11 be visible from Cape Vincent, from
12 Brownville, from Lyme, from Henderson, from
13 Ellisburg. It's an abomination on this end
14 of the lake. I sailed these waters for 30
15 years. I know many people who sail these
16 waters. The evening sky is aglow with the
17 lights that we see all the way over here at
18 Wolff Island. What will we see in the night
19 skies from the Town of Henderson.
20 For the first time in my life I am
21 afraid of my federal government. I am
22 afraid of my state government, and I am at
23 the point where I'm afraid of my county
24 government. I am afraid of some of the
25 agencies that are in force to implement the
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 106 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 plans that are made far away in Washington,
3 to implement the plans that are made far
4 away in New York State, and through a very
5 recent experience I am personally afraid of
6 the Jefferson County Industrial Development
7 Agency. They have an agenda. They are
8 forcing that agenda on us. They are
9 following a mantra that says wind is good.
10 Wind is free. They are following a mantra
11 that doesn't care anything about the quality
12 of life of the people where those towers are
13 being built, that doesn't care anything about
14 the extraction of our tax dollars that will
15 go to big developers represented by big law
16 firms and represented by people whose only
17 purpose is to extract subsidies and
18 government money for others at the expense of
19 the people in the local communities. This
20 is a process being driven by billions of
21 dollars of subsidies. We have had some
22 discussions here about who knew. Who was
23 informed. Who got letters. I've watched
24 this process here in this community. I'm
25 involved in lots of things in this community,
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 107 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 and I can tell you what went on. Working
3 silently, agents of these companies arrived.
4 They talked quietly with members of our
5 community. They got land leases put into
6 effect for the electric lines. They got
7 options on local land for the construction of
8 towers. Upstate NY Power Company scattered
9 seed money, scatter money, pocket change to
10 them, in the range of $47,000 on one piece
11 of property, down to $11,000 on another piece
12 of property. It was odd that all the
13 easements were recorded in the summer of 2008
14 before the final determination of where the
15 power line was even going to go. They were
16 not contiguous pieces of property designed
17 with making the line go through some area
18 where contiguous neighbors agreed. They were
19 contracts that were exercised, scattered
20 around. Were they secret? The kinds of
21 transactions that individuals want to make
22 with people who want to buy their property,
23 that is a democratic United States right.
24 You can't deny people the ability to do as
25 they would like to do with their lands.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 108 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 However, it's odd that all the easements are
3 recorded at the same time within a few weeks
4 of each other. I think I know the reason
5 why. They don't want you to know what's
6 going on because easements are a matter of
7 public record. I went to the County Clerk's
8 office in Watertown. I keyed in Upstate NY
9 Power Company. I got 10 easements popped up
10 on the screen. Those easements were recorded
11 and visible in the Jefferson County Clerk's
12 office. The easements ran 18 pages, 19
13 pages long. If an individual wishes to sell
14 off his property, or give an easement for a
15 hundred years, that's his right. That's his
16 ability. He can do that. But, there's
17 something very, very strange when these
18 contracts are negotiated and some people
19 don't seem to have any notification that the
20 proposed power line is going through their
21 farm land, through their recreational
22 property, through their heritage. But, the
23 people who were approached they knew who
24 approached them. They were approached
25 individually by agents of this power company.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 109 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 They made the contracts. Now, I suspect, I
3 don't know, but all the deeds are registered
4 within a few weeks of each other. That's so
5 that nobody can look until it's done. That
6 doesn't sound very nice to me. The
7 financial terms are unknown. However, the
8 County Clerk's records show very clearly what
9 the consideration was, how much money was
10 made available for the purpose of these
11 people who wanted to do this to their land
12 and divide it up with a boilet plate that
13 the power company put in them. Those total
14 amounts are known. It was $47,000 for one
15 prime piece of farm land down here on Stony
16 Point. Then you ask at the County Clerk's
17 office "Well, what about the financial
18 agreement? How did that work?" That is not
19 a matter of public record. That's fine.
20 That's a private financial transaction between
21 one person and/or another, but a couple
22 people I talked to them, I asked them what
23 did you get? They said "I got 20 percent
24 down and I get 80 percent if the deals goes
25 through." That's the way the power company
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 110 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 negotiated some of those easements. So the
3 financial dollars were known. The exact
4 terms were not known. Whether they all got
5 20% with a promise for the other 80%, that I
6 don't know. I talked to several individuals.
7 They said they already got their 20%. When
8 I searched for the power company, I mean for
9 the power company, I got 10 people. Ten
10 people involved. These weren't easements.
11 These were what they called options. The
12 options are not described in detail. The
13 financial arrangements for those are not
14 quite so readily available. You don't see
15 exactly what's going on like you do with the
16 easements.
17 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Sir, I apologize,
18 but you're losing me, and I don't understand
19 what you're trying to tell me. You've told
20 me that you could do whatever you want with
21 your land.
22 MR. ASHODIAN: Right.
23 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Whether it's public
24 or private.
25 MR. ASHODIAN: No.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 111 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: You told me that
3 the terms and conditions, you've just stated
4 the terms and conditions of these deals are
5 private deals except as required to be filed
6 in the County Clerk's office.
7 MR. ASHODIAN: Correct.
8 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Now, they were
9 filed in the County Clerk's office. Those
10 are private deals and this is a normal way
11 of doing things for any number of different
12 things, not just power lines, land options.
13 I mean, I am not following the point you're
14 trying to make, because you've said all these
15 things are perfectly appropriate.
16 MR. ASHODIAN: It strikes me, and
17 maybe I'm wrong, maybe my sense of these
18 things is a little bit too strict, but we
19 are hearing that the power company notified
20 people that the power line was coming
21 through, and everybody in back of me stands
22 up and says they weren't notified. Now,
23 some people were notified and deals were
24 made. They were lined up without even a
25 final agreement being reached. This strikes
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 112 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 me as a company that is stirring up quietly
3 and secretly interest in the project
4 unbeknownst to everybody else.
5 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Don't they have a
6 right to talk to individuals?
7 MR. ASHODIAN: They have a right to
8 do that, okay? I'm not questioning their
9 right. I'm questioning what has happened in
10 this community where we start seeing we have
11 some public officials who have negotiated
12 these kind of contracts. We feel it raises
13 questions about a conflict of interest.
14 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I'm afraid I have
15 no authority over any public official. As a
16 matter of fact, people in this room have a
17 lot more authority over who gets elected up
18 here than we do.
19 MR. ASHODIAN: I agree. It just
20 strikes me that this whole process doesn't
21 seem right. It seems unseemly. We feel put
22 upon by these outside agencies. They descend
23 on small unsophisticated towns like we are.
24 They work quietly, and then suddenly we find
25 out oh, there's a transmission line. This
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 113 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 doesn't strike me as a good American
3 democratic way of doing business when we are
4 dealing with agencies of our own government.
5 That is my point. I'm sorry
6 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I do understand,
7 and there will be many opportunities before
8 this process is done, and it will all be
9 done in public.
10 MR. ASHODIAN: Thank you very much.
11 I think that's what I'm looking for, and the
12 scary part is that we have talked to other
13 people in other communities. The same kind
14 of process goes on. We are dealing in this
15 community with very sophisticated national
16 organizations, and we feel disadvantaged.
17 So, this is the best hearing that I have
18 ever attended, and one of the areas that I
19 wanted to mention specifically and the reason
20 I point it out the Jefferson County
21 Industrial Development Agency is there was a
22 hearing conducted up there. I know it's not
23 part of your hearing, but I want to share it
24 which it's a very, very carefully controlled
25 legally required hearing. Five minutes. You
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 114 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 couldn't share your time.
3 They read off a set of rules of
4 what you could do and what you couldn't do.
5 Nobody would answer any questions. You
6 couldn't talk to anybody in the audience.
7 As soon as there was hesitation, no more
8 questions? The hearing is over. No
9 information was provided. A handful of
10 people show up at the meeting and they made
11 their comments. It was a ritual. It was a
12 ritual that we see going on to push this
13 thing through by various levels of our
14 government. That is my worry. That is my
15 concern.
16 So, in conclusion, a lot of things
17 people have said here about the government
18 taking their land, about the possibility of
19 the right of eminent domain, I am afraid, I
20 am truly afraid, because I see what I worked
21 so hard for, what I have built in this
22 community for myself is at risk because the
23 federal, state, the county and agencies like
24 the Jefferson County Industrial Development
25 Agency have a plan. They want our land for
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 115 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 wind power. That scares me, sir. Thank you
3 very much.
4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: And, I lied to you
5 about that being the last card. There is
6 one more, Martin Clark. Mr. Clark.
7 MR. CLARK: Good afternoon, Judges.
8 I don't want to take up much of your time.
9 I know it's been a long day. My name is
10 Martin Clark. I life at 12305 County Route
11 123 with my family and it's also known as
12 the Thomas Dobson house, which is one of the
13 oldest residences in the Town of Henderson.
14 I have had no information as of this
15 minute right now by anybody who contacted me
16 about the proposed transmission line crossing
17 a portion of my property. The property is
18 used as farm land, actively used, and I do
19 not want the transmission line on my property
20 at all. I don't really want it in the Town
21 of Henderson, because I see no benefit to
22 what's already been said by these people.
23 It's the Town of Hounsfield's project. To
24 me, that they can run it down through the
25 lake, run it back over to the Town of
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 116 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 Hounsfield and tie in wherever they need be.
3 There's a couple main corridors running north
4 and south known as Route 81 and also the CSX
5 Railroad system. I'm not trying to push
6 this out to some place else. I don't think
7 that anybody's doing that. I don't think
8 we're going to get a benefit out of this but
9 an eyesore. I can only say I think you
10 people need to look at the line being
11 proposed is four times the size needed. To
12 me, it only opens up as it's going down
13 along the eastern shore of Lake Ontario that
14 more wind farms are going to be coming.
15 They're up on top of Tug Hill. They're
16 already along the shore here, and another
17 thing will be when the wind mills don't
18 turn, you want to walk over to the light
19 switch and turn it on. You won't with
20 these. Those plants out in the midwest that
21 are providing a lot of power to be used by
22 the public don't turn down. They're running
23 a hundred percent all the time because you
24 want that power there when you need it. The
25 wind doesn't run all the time, even around
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 117 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 here where it's quite gusty, but it will not
3 fulfill what we're doing here. Green is one
4 thing. The federal government is pushing
5 subsidies to these companies. As Bob had
6 mentioned, they're coming down through the
7 state. The state is looking back at the
8 information provided them and it goes back to
9 the transportation fund. The federal
10 government said you had to change the miles
11 per hour that you could go on the roads. If
12 you didn't play by their rules, "We're not
13 going to give you any funding." This state
14 is strapped for money at this point in time,
15 not just because of their own misconduct but
16 just because of the way the world is.
17 People have misused public trust.
18 That's basically all I have to say.
19 I just go along with what other people have
20 said here today. I want you to look hard
21 at it. I don't want it on my property.
22 If it's going to come on my property, then
23 they're going to have to go eminent domain
24 or I'll resist them any way I can. I think
25 these communities need to ban together.
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 118 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 That's the only way we can stop this type of
3 situation. Thank you.
4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Ladies and
5 gentlemen, that concludes the cards that I
6 have, and we have been going for some period
7 of time. I put that on the record for the
8 benefit of the stenographer. If I had his
9 fingers, they would be falling off. At this
10 point, we are going to have a pre-hearing
11 conference of the parties, but I want to
12 allow at least a little bit of time for you
13 to ask questions either of the applicant or
14 the staff in the back of the room. So, I'd
15 like to adjourn until two o'clock, at which
16 point we will have the formal pre-hearing
17 conference. Before we go off the record
18 yes, ma'am.
19 UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I have a
20 question. How do we identify who these
21 people are?
22 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. That's
23 a good question. Staff, stand up and waive
24 your arms. Those folks are from the
25 Department of Public Service. Can I ask the
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 119 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 Applicant to stand up. Okay, that will give
3 you an idea. We will be adjourned until
4 two-o'clock.
5 (Whereupon, the PUBLIC HEARING
6 concluded at 1:45 p.m.)
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PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com 120 1 PUBLIC HEARING 2 CERTIFICATE
3
4 I, Terry Clark, a Court Reporter and
5 Notary Public in the State of New York, do
6 hereby certify that the foregoing record
7 taken by me at the time and place as noted
8 in the heading hereof, is a true and
9 accurate transcript of same, to the best of
10 my knowledge and belief.
11
12
13
14 Terry Clark
15 Dated: December 10, 2009.
16
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PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com HEARING, NOVEMBER 16, 2009 Page 121 A adequately 93:8 airplane 81:25 apparent 45:1850:16 abandoned 24:1762:5 adjoined 37:3 alarm 43:15 77:16 62:10 adjoining 31:7 Aliasso 36:8,9,16 apparently 34:959:21 ability 40:2541:3107:24 adjourn 118:15 aligned 46:250:21 73:6 108:16 adjourned 119:3 Allard 60:3,362:12,17 appealed 53:23 able 10:1734:2075:9 Administrative 1:12 allow 42:448:1453:8 appeals 26:7 78:1990:1095:12 admitted 81:7 76:11118:12 appear 13:1729:14 abomination 105:13 advantage 60:1761:11 allowed 92:2393:4 appears 27:11 absolute 13:1885:5 61:20 alter 11:21 applicant 7:927:2330:7 87:1996:2 adverse 94:17 altered 37:10 81:2284:15118:13 absolutely 28:986:7,15 advertising 4:8 alternate 14:4,7,1316:4 119:2 88:1290:2593:17 aerial 34:23 16:6,1319:2320:17 application1:42:21 94:22 aesthetic 55:21,24 21:4,6,11,1324:14,22 12:1214:1016:2,18 acceptable 43:1292:25 aesthetically 7:18 alternative 13:337:20 17:2019:1522:10,20 94:5,6 aesthetics 32:12 45:749:2561:4 49:17 acceptance 48:1753:11 affect 48:16,2453:9 alternatives 71:15,22,22 Applications 44:24 accommodate 23:431:18 58:1068:20,22 72:288:12 applied 33:17 78:17 affiliation 53:21 amazement 80:20 Appraisal 38:3 accompliace 89:14 afraid 73:19,19105:21 American 113:2 appreciate 6:683:22 accomplish 31:1532:15 105:22,23,24106:5 amount 10:1888:19,22 appreciated 57:5 33:19 112:14114:19,20 93:14 apprentice 95:7 accomplished 31:1932:2 afternoon 31:465:17 amounts 109:14 approached 108:23,24 32:533:24 76:20115:7 ample 15:22 108:24 account 99:16 agencies 39:11105:25 analysis 14:624:2438:2 appropriate 35:20 accrue 18:4 112:22113:4114:23 39:6 111:15 accurate 120:9 agency 32:14106:7 analyzed 39:13 approved 26:1358:9 accurately 2:11 113:21114:25 Andrew 62:18 approximately 17:9 achieve 33:23 agenda 106:7,8 and/or 34:6109:21 27:2559:962:7,9,25 acres 4:18,19,2031:5 agents 107:3108:25 angered 44:10 65:7 32:2035:863:2364:4 aglow 105:16 angry 44:10 aquatic 47:752:2 65:8,9,1092:14 ago 46:2151:1662:9 angst 82:7 archeological 47:952:4 action 21:4,6,10,1332:5 77:2104:7 animals 47:752:264:25 area 5:910:5,6,711:19 active 104:9 agree 81:22112:19 annual 17:13 12:222:524:1125:14 actively 115:18 agreed 86:11107:18 annually 17:22 27:5,15,2428:6,20 actual 23:2577:1479:4 agreement 109:18 answer 30:871:13,16,24 30:2033:335:11,15,15 90:15,2491:4 111:25 73:22114:5 35:1936:1838:640:11 add 6:2535:25 agriculatural 69:16 answered 70:8 41:843:346:7,8,11,19 adding 76:23 agricultural 9:1716:8 anticipated 17:22 46:22,2347:5,20,22 addition11:16100:8,20 26:2428:1537:1841:7 anxiety 72:773:18 48:2151:2,3,6,14,17,18 101:2 42:3,1259:1160:15 anybody 5:206:430:7 51:2452:15,1753:15 additional 13:3 61:363:2468:1969:19 72:675:1384:11114:6 55:16,22,2456:757:21 Additionally 46:2351:18 69:2497:20,2298:18 115:15 76:8,1092:1596:7 address 14:13,1815:10 99:10,15,23101:3,6,17 anybody's 116:7 104:20107:17 42:2556:19 102:9103:18,21 anyways 6:25 areas 12:2313:624:16 addressed 49:868:24 agricultural/dairy 46:18 apart 6:2 26:2227:11,13,13,14 80:7 51:13 apologize 7:511:23 27:16,18,2028:2,22 addresses 87:5 agriculture 46:2551:20 13:12,21104:2110:17 55:23113:18 adds 79:17 98:799:17102:20,25 appalled 29:1743:11 areas's 37:16 adequate 20:2439:12 103:23 44:6 area's 40:23
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PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com HEARING, NOVEMBER 16, 2009 Page 133 31:1034:2436:21 old 62:5,1163:2165:25 outdated 74:24 66:2167:2169:20 nuclear 15:1688:11 66:1268:11104:21 outdoor 9:1612:25 75:1787:2299:12 number 3:94:910:3 oldest 115:13 outline 38:24 113:12,23 71:2580:4,5111:11 once 20:8100:5,7,19 outputs 90:1591:4 participate 9:510:22 numbers 17:17 ones 74:10 outset 13:11,21 participating 9:2 nutritionist 65:5 one-and-a-half 62:25 outside 67:2474:899:13 participation26:4 NY 1:414:937:2339:16 one-time 100:22 112:22 particularly 9:1010:19 41:1044:2545:547:3 ongoing 53:14 outstripped 41:24 12:22 49:1750:551:2253:15 onshore 16:15 overall 39:2,24 parties 39:1371:17,20 59:4,462:1198:5 Ontario 21:1027:661:6 overhead 17:467:14 118:11 107:8108:8 66:17105:2,3116:13 overland 20:11 partner 6:13,24 NYCRR 21:17 open 44:1698:9102:21 overlay 11:1512:22 party 8:2537:1444:13 NYPA 22:760:20 opens 116:12 27:17,2128:12,16,24 pass 35:5 NYS 1:1448:14,1749:23 operate 91:18 30:4 passage 57:23 53:7,1098:6,15103:22 operation 99:25100:4 overnight 66:23 passed 42:7 NYSDEC 46:1951:14 operator 22:6,2285:21 oversee 102:3 passing 14:1528:18,21 NYSDPS 42:1449:3 91:7 oversized 47:1852:13 patches 77:22 54:7 operators 85:889:5 overview 9:634:23 Paterson 61:14 NY29 53:18 Operator's 22:11 overwhelming 45:19 path 19:820:9,2321:2 opinion 30:1731:1893:5 50:17 58:1566:22 O opportunities 9:5,25 Overwhelmingly 41:13 patterns 100:21 Obama 53:20 21:2422:2323:672:2 owe 55:25 pay 18:671:398:21,23 observing 31:10 113:7 owls 67:12 payer 99:11,12 obstacles 57:14 opportunity 10:2215:22 owned 32:2441:1655:19 payment 86:7,1089:13 obsticles 58:6 71:14,18,21104:18 61:4,10 90:23100:23 obvious 60:18 opposed 9:8,1113:635:4 owner 16:1031:541:17 payments 17:1141:23 obviously 10:1111:8 37:2,680:17102:10 85:7,2189:591:7,22 pays 99:9 20:1982:22 104:5,13 92:9100:17 Pennsylvania 55:17 occasionally 14:6 opposition 24:1545:15 owners 73:9,2475:12,21 people 4:22,255:56:8 occur 12:15 45:2550:1353:14,16 100:15 8:1210:4,2544:5,10 occurs 78:5 53:2459:3 owns 16:1261:580:14 55:1457:1558:17 Ocean 19:15 option 11:917:12 o'clock 118:15 64:1665:273:775:12 odd 107:12108:2 options 70:983:6107:7 75:1982:5,12,2183:10 offer 56:5 110:11,12111:12 P 83:13,15,18,2484:17 offered 47:2548:552:20 optomistic 17:1957:25 pad 33:7 84:1985:687:388:10 office 60:23104:12,12 oral 3:14 page 27:19 89:17,2191:1493:16 108:8,12109:17111:6 order 2:5,1223:3 pages 72:21108:12,13 95:1796:1797:5,8 111:9 organic 7:19 paid 74:275:22101:12 98:20105:15106:12,16 Officer 97:19 organizations 113:16 Papa 68:14 106:19107:22,24 officers 87:4 original 47:1452:9 paper 25:4 108:18,23109:11,22 official 112:15 83:20104:6 parallel 61:7 110:9,10111:20,23 officials 89:14112:11 originally 55:1782:8,9 parcel 34:1135:24 112:16113:13114:10 offshore 16:13 96:7 parcels 33:459:2560:2 114:17115:22116:10 oh 93:9112:25 Oswego 1:73:315:13 parent 42:7 117:17,19118:21 oils 78:25 24:1246:1051:598:2 parents 94:15 peppered 79:15 okay 2:203:214:36:12 otherw 65:10 park 20:375:3,4 percent 9:2110:2364:12 7:108:5,1812:619:22 ought 81:687:2190:11 parked 63:14,15 109:23,24116:23 21:2356:1580:11 outcomes 41:19 part 12:4,1336:17,23 percentage 70:25 84:12,22112:8119:2 outcry 95:3 38:1045:1462:4,13 perfectly 81:21111:15
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com HEARING, NOVEMBER 16, 2009 Page 134 period 118:6 26:2227:2,3,11,1929:3 position 9:753:19 prevalent 41:8 permanent 36:2468:17 29:8,11,18,2230:6 possibility 15:9114:18 prevent 68:6 68:18100:21,24 31:1840:1941:260:10 possible 12:2029:17 previous 77:6 permanently 99:20 61:964:379:7,787:18 possibly 5:1275:24 pre-hearing 118:10,16 permit 11:872:14 114:25 posts 5:25,25 price 31:3,3,4,534:3,7 permits 91:21,2392:5 planet 31:1487:16 postulate 38:4 34:10,1443:1691:7 person2:1421:1582:21 planned 9:969:2384:10 post-traumatic 73:18 prided 42:2 102:16109:21 90:18 potential 15:5,2016:24 pried 64:15 personal30:1741:15 planning 25:1226:6,7 22:1376:1577:279:10 primarily 85:20 58:18104:24 31:2033:1840:15 101:4 prime 28:1558:1659:11 personally 104:24106:5 plans 35:640:2457:8 pounds 58:12,1364:22 60:1561:363:2365:8 persons 102:16 106:2,3 poured 33:7 68:1969:7,15,19,24 pertaining 91:5 plant 66:2568:1288:16 power 1:42:2114:9 109:15 pertinent 21:5 planted 32:763:767:2 15:16,2221:924:9 principal 44:22 pessimistic 17:19 plants 22:19116:20 34:17,2435:12,21,23 principles 11:14 pesticides 79:16 plate 109:12 37:2339:1641:10 print 96:4,7,10 Pete 31:3,5 play 117:12 44:2547:349:1750:5 priority 27:4 Peter 34:1443:16 please 2:5,835:1869:19 51:2257:8,959:4,5,10 privacy 13:13 phase 4:19,20 81:1797:4,11 59:1262:1169:23 private 59:560:9101:18 phases 18:20 pleasing 7:19 73:11,2076:9,1177:8 102:3,5,11103:9 pheasants 67:12 plug 65:19 79:784:2585:3,8,9,11 109:20110:24111:5,10 photo 75:2 plus 17:1532:774:24 85:13,15,18,1986:20 privilege 55:7 photographed 13:14 98:22 88:889:16,20,2390:11 privileged 55:5 photography 13:14 pocket 107:9 90:2091:1293:7,22 probable 41:18 photos 74:22 pockets 57:2485:21 94:1796:2598:699:23 probably 5:2174:789:8 phrases 21:523:7 89:19,24 101:14102:13107:8,15 89:1096:5 physically 38:1264:12 point 5:149:415:14,15 108:9,20,25109:13,25 problem 16:1733:18 pick 5:2135:19,20 15:2119:1328:1429:5 110:8,9111:12,19,20 problems 76:15100:13 picking 8:12 38:1571:1992:493:9 115:2116:21,24 proceed 14:2520:11 picture 58:1093:2096:3 105:10,23109:16 Powers 44:22 37:1939:242:548:17 pictures 74:1793:19 111:13113:5,20117:14 PPS 27:19 53:10 piece 3:1132:1667:5 118:10,16 preferable 12:21 proceeding 3:8,845:7 73:14107:10,11109:15 pointed 26:14 preliminary 22:11 49:25 pieces 107:16 pointedly 30:13 prepared 4:1293:8 proceeds 42:948:2254:2 PILOT 17:1186:7,10 points 23:1538:17,23 present 4:185:1333:10 process 30:243:12,20,24 89:6,1390:23 pole 7:17 47:2548:552:2067:7 44:1680:2084:14 pittance 86:6 poles 7:1857:1274:15 78:5 87:2495:18106:20,24 place 5:66:167:1264:8 93:1895:10,1299:20 presentation93:11 112:20113:8,14 68:1070:1278:20 politically 59:18 presented 16:21 produce 6:1858:11 79:2394:5,697:10 pond 4:1720:4 preservation 10:740:23 64:2285:1490:21,22 116:6120:7 poor 20:20 43:546:350:2253:22 91:11,12 placed 46:1951:1496:12 poorly 46:1251:769:22 preserve 27:832:2,6,12 produced 5:363:564:10 96:18101:18,21102:5 69:23 32:1556:4 produces 85:16,17 placement 47:1152:6 popped 108:9 preserving 31:13 producing 5:2,2390:18 94:398:12,16 populated 13:5 president 40:1343:2 production41:2558:7 placing 102:8 population35:1747:6 53:1992:10 90:24 plain 104:21 51:24 presiding 1:14 productive 65:12 plan 9:1911:2112:14 portion105:4115:17 prestigious 105:4 profit 93:23 25:23,2426:3,12,13,19 portions 46:1451:9 pretty 77:19 progress 65:22
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PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com HEARING, NOVEMBER 16, 2009 Page 136 108:7109:19118:7,17 repeat 17:10 retired 55:6,20 58:22,23,24 120:6 replace 97:9 revealed 20:15 Roughly 10:23 recorded 107:13108:3 report 90:14 revenue 41:2561:19 route 1:1411:1713:3,4 108:10 Reporter 1:16120:4 71:4100:15 14:14,14,15,2315:11 records 36:2483:391:5 reports 91:3 reverse 39:3 16:2,3,13,19,2117:7,8 109:8 represent 8:2437:2 review 25:1029:21 18:3,5,8,1119:14,19,23 recreation 9:1613:2 45:23 37:1139:949:7,21 20:6,15,17,2023:22,22 37:17 representative 30:18 reviewed 29:1234:22 24:7,14,1631:734:16 recreational 9:24108:21 representatives 53:25 reward 94:11 34:23,2535:3,2044:20 refer 22:3 represented 106:15,16 re-evaluated 30:2 58:2559:3,5,7,2460:14 reference 29:2,8,837:14 representing 36:16 re-visited 44:2 60:19,20,2461:6,8,17 37:25 representives 26:5 rich 86:18,18 61:20,2562:2,17,18,23 referred 2:1838:7 represents 28:7 Richland 24:12 63:18,2068:2569:4,11 referring 17:23 request 12:1939:7,17 rid 76:17 70:1172:8,13,1576:22 reflect 30:16 81:12,13,21 ridiculously 89:13 77:13,19,2182:13,25 reflection 11:12 requests 90:9 riding 61:24 83:2093:17115:10 regard 11:9,1371:14 require 11:720:2135:21 right 4:6,7,1311:17 116:4 84:16 required 111:5113:25 13:13,1828:2530:8 routes 9:1114:4,724:22 regarding 16:241:7 requirements 85:11 36:1546:1351:859:17 58:1560:1773:882:13 45:1950:1798:11,16 requires 16:4 62:5,10,10,11,1363:6 routine 65:4 103:24 requwest 40:3 63:2173:3,1391:13 routing 15:822:2330:2 regards 9:730:2370:19 research 31:2047:13 105:9107:23108:15 30:341:9,12 region 53:16 52:897:2 110:22112:6,7,9,21 row 68:493:12 regional 24:4,8 reserved 23:11 114:19115:15 rows 67:268:3 register 45:24 residence 34:15 rights 11:631:24102:16 ruin 75:7 registered 57:20,21 residences 115:13 right-of-way 17:1231:25 ruined 56:2 109:3 resident 13:2425:8 33:12 ruining 54:16 Regrettably 45:22 residential 11:1916:9 ring 43:15 ruins 71:5 regulate 101:25 26:23,23,2528:15 rise 67:12 rule 17:542:1449:354:7 regulations 63:25 32:23,23 risk 114:22 ruled 23:16 relates 79:20 residents 4:510:16,20,23 risks 77:3 rules 11:10114:3117:12 relatively 16:21 48:1853:6,1271:2 ritual 114:11,12 run 5:8,1728:329:15 relentless 57:3 98:7,10101:16102:15 river 88:5,7 57:4,859:1061:21 relevance 29:23 resides 44:20 road 34:1149:13,1555:2 71:8115:24,25116:25 reliability 16:2518:10 resist 117:24 59:2560:3,3,462:12 running 12:2116:588:8 18:17 Resort 38:9 72:9,2473:12,13 94:1895:4116:3,22 reliance 91:15,17 resources 16:8,1526:11 roads 69:1775:16 runs 64:20 relying 22:23 26:14,1737:940:23 117:11 rural 26:2428:1570:2 remained 57:25 respect 36:943:263:3 Robert 25:6,736:8,16 99:10103:3 remarks 9:3 81:283:1991:19 104:16 RV 38:9 remember 69:12 respectfully 39:749:6 Roberta 3:20 remembers 18:14 Respondents 9:22 robust 39:1464:12 S remind 44:14 response 9:2110:3,8 rocket 94:24 Sackets 4:23 render 21:11 responsibilities 55:8 roll 66:18 Sacket's 94:12 rendering 88:6 rest 66:2368:2174:2 Ron 80:10 sacred 63:8 renewable 85:2 75:23 room 44:1477:583:16 safe 76:8 renowened 51:2 restrict 22:18 83:17112:16118:14 safeguard 56:8 renowned 46:6 result 16:7,1488:23 rope 33:22 sail 105:15 repair 17:318:2219:3 resulting 31:2139:4 Rossiter 56:13,13,15,16 sailed 105:14
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com HEARING, NOVEMBER 16, 2009 Page 137 sale 98:11102:7 sediment 19:1020:23 shed 71:5 sited 43:1499:23101:11 Salmon 88:6 see 27:1929:254:16 sheet 25:3 103:11 Samuel 96:4,22 61:1366:1667:11,23 Shim 42:18 siting 11:429:2443:25 San 44:8 74:5,2175:9,1077:21 Shim's 38:16 102:17 Sandy 4:5,6,7 84:23105:6,17,18 shoals 20:5 sitting 36:11 Sarah49:12 110:14114:12,20 shore 16:5105:10 situation 118:3 Sate 101:13 115:21 116:13,16 six 4:1644:15105:10 satisfied 21:16 seed 107:9 shoreline 27:6,1328:2,4 size 88:15,17116:11 save 8:1965:2369:21 seeing 112:10 28:694:20 skies 66:19,2467:12,20 saying 18:643:23 seen 30:977:13 shorelines 19:1261:6 105:19 says 7:2368:11106:9 segment 14:17 shores 40:6 sky 67:5105:16 111:22 segments 14:12 short 14:747:451:23 sleep 65:3 scalded 77:22 selected 17:7,846:12 71:24 slight 20:24 scale 91:16 51:7 shortcomings 14:9 slightly 20:3 scares 115:2 sell 74:4108:13 shorter 20:25 slow 66:5 scary 113:12 Senator 40:4 shortest 23:22 slowly 67:14 scatter 107:9 send 93:16 shot 57:23 small 10:226:2431:6 scattered 107:8,19 sense 35:1674:2089:5 shoulders 100:11 41:16,2254:1388:7 scenic 10:711:1512:22 111:17 show 84:11109:8114:10 95:1997:699:19 26:1446:7,1451:3,9 sensitive 8:3 showed 63:3 112:23 76:10 sent 49:11 showing 12:8 sneakily 95:19 schedule 71:18,20 September 31:965:12 shown 74:17,25 snow 66:20 school 92:1194:12,14 66:12 shows 28:12 Snowshoe 49:13 96:8,1199:14 serious 59:2 sic 22:12 snowy 67:12 schools 96:998:25 seriously 14:4 side 30:735:755:366:7 soar 67:14 Schumer 40:4 serve 33:245:24 sides 5:18 socio-economic 37:4,22 scientific 55:13 service 1:33:711:11 sight 72:25 38:5 scientist 94:25 14:821:1625:229:20 signed 30:14 soft 17:17 scour 19:12 62:1998:15103:22 significant 9:2212:23 soil 64:572:1879:3,4 screen 108:10 118:25 47:948:1152:453:2 soils 16:16100:16 Scriba 60:20 Services 60:24 100:14 sold 62:8 seagulls 66:2567:2,5,7 set 71:19114:3 significantly 11:21 somebody 11:25 searched 110:8 setback 78:20 silage 65:14 somewhat 19:2 season 67:16 settle 86:5 silently 107:3 son6:1595:6 seasonal 9:1510:14,19 settled 24:11 silt 48:5 son's 95:10 12:25 settlement 41:23 similar 10:643:645:21 soon114:7 seasoned 39:15 seven 4:2074:24 50:1953:14,23 sophisticated 113:15 seat 42:6 severe 18:1572:773:18 Similarly 16:13 sorry 56:14113:5 Seaway 27:1428:4,24 severely 40:25 simple 18:2554:25,25 sort 71:2376:24 second 5:36:2410:8,9 sewer 9:2511:1812:5 simply 19:623:1428:17 sound 109:6 33:749:1465:23 shadow 88:11 28:2047:2048:2,6 Sounds 16:16 secrecy 43:11 shape 36:4 52:15,21 source 78:8 secret 107:20 share 31:1280:1888:3 Sincerely 54:9 sources 37:3,14,2539:23 Secretary 53:20 88:10113:23114:2 single 86:22 50:7 secretly 112:3 Sharon 34:1049:1454:9 sir 25:530:1242:21 south 14:16,2315:3,9,13 Section 21:17 56:1858:22,2398:25 81:2082:1784:22 19:2020:4,10,1335:7 sections 32:10 99:25 110:17115:2 35:14,16,2249:15 sector 50:7 sharp 41:5 site 4:186:1980:488:11 59:2461:24116:4 sectors 37:18 sharply 42:1348:2554:5 104:5 southerly 20:11
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com HEARING, NOVEMBER 16, 2009 Page 138 southern 35:1969:12 start 36:1965:17112:10 83:2,2284:5,1292:3 49:654:10 southward 14:2515:4,7 started 4:1619:2033:5 97:13103:25104:15 submitted 39:18 19:8,2420:923:23 56:21 110:17,23111:2,8 submitting 13:2 southwest 20:6 state 1:2,1713:1216:11 112:5,14113:6115:4 subsequent 78:4 Southwick 20:2 20:222:531:2334:16 118:4,22 subsidies 50:357:18 spare 18:19 35:339:1046:15,22 Stony 14:16,20,2215:4,7 106:17,21117:5 speak 6:8,2532:1892:23 48:1950:751:10,17 15:919:13,24,2520:5 subsidy 40:541:2285:20 93:4,4104:18,21 53:13,2458:2559:16 20:10,1821:228:14 85:20 speaker 8:1731:254:20 59:1860:10,11,22,23 31:8,2432:5,10,2172:8 substantial 40:2048:15 56:1270:572:376:19 61:4,5,8,9,10,12,15,16 72:25105:10109:15 53:9 92:797:16103:25 61:18,19,2564:7,10 stood 80:23 substantially 47:18 speakers 94:19 72:10,14,1675:3,4,14 stop 63:1195:24118:2 52:13 speaking 25:1345:17 77:1781:8,1090:12,16 stopover 87:14 substantiate 38:18 50:15 91:11101:7,20,21,24 stopped 44:263:12 substantive 14:524:23 special 27:756:861:14 102:2,24103:7,12 stopping 66:22 43:17 special-use 11:7 104:23105:22106:4 storage 33:5,10 substation1:73:215:2 species 46:1651:11 114:23117:7,7,13 storm 18:13,14 21:2522:2,860:20 specific 6:10,177:5,7 120:5 storms 66:18 62:871:794:23 12:1122:1580:2,4 stated 70:17111:3 straight 4:1461:22 substitute 23:2424:25 specifically 19:1627:16 statement 2:66:9,22 73:22105:8 successfully 57:4 27:1829:14113:19 13:1654:1170:773:3 strand 18:19 suddenly 112:24 specifications 47:15 81:8 strange 108:17 sufficient 22:2478:10 52:10 statements 3:12,13,18 strangers 63:2 suggested 101:10 specious 14:621:3 states 17:2019:1622:10 strapped 117:14 sum 41:2387:9 spectacular 26:16 64:8,11107:23 strappings 63:9 summarizes 38:17 spend 88:19,22 state-owned 60:14,18 Street 14:1821:2522:4 summary 12:19 spent 100:17 station 15:1673:375:5 23:11,18,2124:3,5 summer 5:677:20 spill 72:9,15 stay 20:663:6,16 stress 73:19 107:13 spills 79:3 stays 66:23 stressful 66:10 Sunday 66:11 spirit 24:19 steam 75:11 strict 63:25111:18 sunset 55:4 Spit 20:8 steel 74:15 strike 113:2 superficial 14:524:23 spoke 104:18 stenographer 2:1036:14 strikes 111:16,25112:20 supplied 39:24 spoken 55:1576:25 43:9118:8 strong 53:17 supply 39:1978:2 spot 4:22 steps 29:14 strongly 103:23 support 45:853:23 sprayed 78:15 Steven 53:20 structure 39:2577:22 Suppose 17:13 spread 67:13 stewards 68:8 structures 16:5,924:15 supposed 3:22 spring 66:1878:5 stick 56:20 26:2035:18101:4 sure 7:732:457:358:6 St 88:5 stick-up 85:23 strutting 67:19 63:1264:2 staff 7:812:1762:19 stimulate 103:19 studied 37:24 surplus 61:16 118:14,23 stirring 112:2 studies 7:258:273:15,21 surprise 4:2254:15 stage 15:19 stock 64:23,23 study 22:1238:4 survey 9:2110:616:24 stages 9:2 Stockholm 1:132:4,16 stuff 67:1989:1990:7 19:18 Staie 104:4,4 3:5,234:26:77:2,4 subaquatic 16:217:2 surveys 9:1919:1526:9 stake 70:2 8:1611:2312:6,16 18:1119:420:638:14 survival26:1839:566:2 stakes 58:18 13:1025:530:1131:2 38:1647:2352:1871:9 Susan 44:1949:5 stalks 65:20 33:2534:5,936:6 93:24 suspect 21:1445:20 stand 55:1081:3118:23 42:2154:19,2356:11 subject 12:336:2237:18 50:18109:2 119:2 58:2170:471:1176:18 44:2445:649:16,24 suspicions 48:2,752:21 stands 111:21 79:2581:1982:3,17 submit 5:1121:1834:7 swallow76:17
PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com HEARING, NOVEMBER 16, 2009 Page 139 swath 62:2068:282:24 temporary 91:21,2392:5 thusly 21:5 87:2088:2489:11,12 sweeping 26:15 ten 8:69:2364:12110:9 tie 116:2 90:5,2295:2105:19 swing 14:22 term 29:1147:451:23 tilled 66:24 115:13,20,23,25 swinging 15:4,620:10 terms 89:7109:7110:4 time 4:417:320:16 towns 18:3,739:1046:9 swings 14:24 111:3,4 39:1242:2044:12 46:1051:4,561:270:2 switch 116:19 Tern 46:2251:17 55:2063:1166:974:11 70:2171:378:2299:11 switched 65:16 Terry 1:16120:4,14 77:482:484:1289:2 112:23 synergy 40:17 test 72:20 93:1196:1797:12 townships 77:12 Syracuse 4:24 Texas 40:5 100:13,16105:20108:3 town's 9:712:1929:16 system 22:6,11,2278:10 thank 6:128:15,1613:8 114:2115:8116:23,25 41:2 78:12116:5 13:1025:530:2533:25 117:14118:7,12120:7 trace 78:8 42:19,2154:18,19,22 timely 39:17 track 71:12 T 54:2356:9,1158:19 times 67:1181:2383:16 Trail 27:1428:4,24 table 36:1274:23 70:3,471:9,1176:18 83:1792:16104:11 trails 75:8 take 4:417:827:22,23 79:2484:5,791:25 116:11 tranquil 69:8,25 59:1260:1761:11 92:397:12,13,18 tires 68:5 transaction109:20 64:1575:14,1786:2,13 103:24104:15,17 today 3:139:4,1310:17 transactions 107:21 87:2189:294:8,24 113:10115:2118:3,22 25:1236:340:1243:6 transcript 120:9 97:11,1499:16,19 thing 7:168:1075:16 45:1249:950:1054:24 transfer 91:6 100:4102:11103:17 76:2482:393:1894:10 55:10,1571:1676:24 transferred 91:8 115:8 114:13116:17117:4 92:2193:898:14 transmission1:52:24 taken 24:726:929:14 things 7:21,229:24 117:20 9:911:614:21,25 53:1896:10120:7 43:17,1856:17,19,20 told 56:1872:2280:24 17:2420:821:2122:13 takes 57:461:2068:2 56:2278:24,2579:8 110:19111:2 22:1725:1928:10,13 95:24100:6 80:2187:1096:24 tonight's 30:5 28:2229:15,2530:24 tale 21:21 106:25111:11,12,15,18 top 64:12104:9116:15 31:1934:12,2435:4,12 talents 6:17 114:16 topsoil 100:6,7 35:2136:440:841:10 talk 80:1987:9112:6 think 7:6,109:1211:11 total 29:1863:299:4 41:1342:1545:3,10,16 114:6 29:671:1278:1180:22 109:13 46:1147:12,15,18,24 talked 82:14107:4 81:284:586:13,24 touch 78:22 49:4,1950:8,1451:6 109:22110:6113:12 87:2090:10,2591:10 tourism 9:1512:2537:17 52:7,10,13,1954:857:9 talking 73:787:1794:2 91:1893:1495:16 tourism/recreation 59:6,1060:8,1361:7 targeted 11:1846:11 96:14,24108:4113:11 46:2551:20 62:363:2269:17,18 51:6 116:6,7,9117:24 tower 43:1478:3,9 70:10,16,19,2373:2,7 tasks 33:19 third 4:2014:1737:14 towers 17:2578:14 73:1674:1875:5,21 tax 17:2141:542:13 77:4 100:20105:6106:12 77:978:7,14,1679:23 48:2554:559:2086:14 Thomas 26:21115:12 107:8 81:1692:1794:7,18 99:11103:6106:14 thorough 29:21 town 1:6,72:253:38:24 96:2097:2398:2,4,13 taxable 70:20 thought 92:1893:13 8:259:8,10,1810:2 98:1799:18,22101:9 taxes 98:2499:9 thousand 32:1162:15 11:5,5,22,2412:7,9,20 102:8,12,18,23103:10 taxpayer 45:5101:12 78:20 13:2,5,6,2524:12,18 104:6,8,14112:25 taxpayers 61:13101:19 thousands 66:2076:5 25:8,21,2326:527:14 115:16,19 tears 42:6 three 4:188:614:12 28:5,1929:3,2230:23 transmissions 11:4,13 technical 6:8 18:1933:443:665:17 32:634:1836:2238:20 21:7 technically 21:2039:14 65:2268:3,1182:11 40:15,1843:2145:17 transmit62:6 telephone 73:11 104:10 48:950:1552:2470:14 transparent 98:9 tell 13:1149:1060:6 throat 90:4 70:1871:675:1476:9 transportation61:21 80:291:1393:21107:2 thrown 58:6 76:1278:1980:14,15 77:17,18117:9 110:19 Thursday 4:118:4 80:1686:5,5,9,2487:12 traverses 46:1351:8
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PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version www.pdffactory.com HEARING, NOVEMBER 16, 2009 Page 141 107:2108:7 Wolff 74:6,1088:4105:7 56:662:964:6,18,19 42:1644:2449:5,16 weren't 65:21110:10 105:7,18 66:1269:374:2482:10 54:9 111:22 woman 44:1954:25 86:1092:12,13100:6 west 20:740:459:24 118:19 105:15108:15 1 western 55:4 wonder 46:851:3 yellow 32:22 1 15:1898:17 wetland 73:5 wonderful 95:15 yielding 100:16 1.21 15:23 wetlands 16:16 wondering 96:25 York 1:2,15,172:21 1.5 17:14 we'll 2:68:1975:20 word 87:19 13:12,2416:1122:6,11 1:45 119:6 we're 4:5,11,126:20 words 2:1011:2515:25 24:1331:2334:16,18 10 19:1068:3108:9 8:1331:9,1455:2,3,21 16:1822:2054:25 35:339:1044:2149:16 110:9120:15 56:1667:2178:11 work 7:158:533:20 58:2,24,2559:7,1764:2 100 63:2399:8 87:1693:2595:24 61:1367:2468:992:21 64:7,1077:1781:7,10 1000 98:20 116:8117:3,12 102:2109:18112:24 88:2,890:12,1691:11 11th 34:25 we've 7:1343:1144:15 worked 4:2164:17,18,19 101:7,13,21,23102:24 11:00 1:15 82:2083:1592:22 66:595:998:5114:20 103:12106:4120:5 11327 55:2 100:3 working 4:156:168:13 Yorker's 57:16 115kV 21:2522:247:15 Whaley 75:3 66:1467:6,2395:7 young 43:1364:23,23 52:10 whatsoever 29:8 107:2 12 64:18 white 66:2076:3 works 65:5 Z 120 54:12 whitecaps 66:17 world 46:650:25117:16 zag 77:11 122(1)(e) 21:17 Whites 49:15 worm 76:17 zig 77:11 123 44:20115:11 White's 28:19 worried 54:18 zone 22:5,8,2323:4,6 12305 115:10 wide 64:13 worry 8:7114:14 27:4,21,2428:12,14,16 125,000 58:13 wife 6:1556:18 worse 19:13 28:17,21,2430:4 1250 65:8 wild 32:9 worth 28:257:2278:25 zoned 33:3 13680 44:20 wildlife 47:651:2567:16 80:887:6 zones 11:722:12,20 15 62:9 Williams 40:1342:22,23 wouldn't 35:2574:7 zoning 11:526:632:3 15th 65:13 42:24,25 wrappers 63:17 78:22 150 46:1351:862:20 wind 17:24,2518:23,25 write 45:1250:1092:24 1523 72:8 $ 21:8,1122:14,16,19 writes 44:23 15321 49:13 23:8,9,1230:2438:2,3 writing 83:25104:3 $11,000 107:11 16 1:142:321:17 38:1359:1462:1675:9 written 3:1483:384:17 $13 98:21 16th 34:1936:21 76:9,1184:2585:3,4,8 wrong 36:7111:17 $153 17:9,15 1600 15:19 85:10,10,12,13,15,18 wrote 21:1656:17 $185 16:2017:16 1761 15:17 85:1986:2088:1389:4 WTG 37:1239:2240:7 $2 17:2218:6 178 1:1576:2296:21 89:15,20,2290:20 45:1546:1247:16 $30 17:15 18 86:8108:12 91:1697:25101:15 50:1351:752:11 $300,000 65:24 19 108:12 102:13,18105:2,6 $4,000 99:9 1980's 55:18 106:9,10115:2116:14 Y $40 98:23 1993 55:19 116:17,25 yacht 14:2 $400,000 65:23 1998 18:14 windmill 94:3 yapping 67:10 $47,000 107:10109:14 2 wings 67:13 yard 43:1575:17 $500 98:18 year 5:3,417:1518:7 2 15:1899:22 winter 48:1953:5,13 # 57:6 58:12,1364:2065:10 2,000 27:25 #5 20:7 wire 8:6 65:12,1568:1175:3 2.25 35:8 #7 20:3 wires 5:87:23 77:6,1598:2499:6 20 9:2158:1264:22 109:23 wise 17:2328:18,21 104:11 0 years 4:165:311:226:9 20% 110:5,7 wishes 108:13 09-T-0049 1:82:2037:3 witness 32:14 32:846:2151:1655:6 20-year 17:11
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Page 1 Page 3 1 1 2 STATE OF NEW YORK 2 to the Fitzpatrick-Edic Substation in the 3 PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION 3 Town of Mexico, Oswego County. ______4 4 Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Application of Upstate NY Power Corp. for a 5 Jeffrey Stockholm, and with me is Judge Kevin 5 Certificate of Environmental Compatibility 6 Cusutto, and we are the Judges that are and Public Need for a 50.6 mile 230kV Transmission 7 assigned by the Public Service Commission to 6 Facility from Galloo Island in the town of 8 hear this proceeding. This proceeding has Hounsfield, Jefferson County, to the Fitzpatrick-Edic 9 just begun. It will be a number of months 7 Substation in the Town of Mexico, Oswego County. 8 Case No.: 09-T-0049 10 long, but this is the very beginning. The 9 ______11 very first piece of formal record to go to 10 12 the commission are the statements that you're 11 13 making today. All of those statements both 12 PUBLIC HEARING, before Administrative 14 oral and written, should you choose to do 13 Law Judges Jeffrey E. Stockholm and Kevin J. Casutto, 15 that, will be in the formal record of this 14 presiding, held on November 16, 2009, at 8939 NYS Route 15 178, Henderson, New York, commencing at 11:00 a.m., 16 case before the Commission when it ultimately 16 before Terry Clark, Court Reporter and Notary Public in 17 makes its determination. The purpose, as you 17 and for the State of New York. 18 all know, is to make statements, and let me 18 19 begin then with the first card that I have, 19 20 which is Roberta French. Miss French. 20 21 MS. FRENCH: Okay. Is this 21 22 22 supposed to be used? 23 23 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: You can do 24 24 anything you want. 25 25 MS. FRENCH: Is it live?
Page 2 Page 4 1 1 2 PUBLIC HEARING 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Yes, it's live. 3 NOVEMBER 16, 2009 3 MS. FRENCH: Okay, I'm not going to 4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Ladies and 4 take too much of your time this morning, 5 gentlemen, if we could come to order, please, 5 because we're Sandy Creek residents and we 6 we'll begin the public statement comments. 6 have a Sandy Creek blueberry farm right 7 What I would ask you is when I call your 7 across from, or right near the Sandy Creek 8 name to please come up to this microphone in 8 Fairgrounds. A little advertising. It so 9 the front. That will greatly assist the 9 happens that we, number one, we didn't hear 10 stenographer in getting your words down 10 of this meeting or of any of this until 11 accurately and completely, and we will call 11 Thursday, so we're really not too well 12 these cards in the order that we got them. 12 prepared, but we're doing our best. It 13 Are there any questions before we begin? 13 seems as if the proposed line is to go right 14 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Do we face 14 straight through the middle of the blueberry 15 you? 15 farm which we have be working at and getting 16 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: As long as you use 16 started for the last six years. We have 17 the microphone you can face any way you 17 built a pond. We have irrigation. The 18 want. However, the comments are referred to 18 present blueberry site is three acres. The 19 us. That's the purpose of the hearing. 19 next phase will be another five acres, and 20 Okay, let's begin. I call Case 09-T-0049, 20 the third phase will be another seven acres. 21 application of Upstate New York Power Corp. 21 This has been worked. It's a beautiful 22 for a Certificate of Environmental 22 spot. To our surprise, people have come 23 Compatibility and Public Need for a 50.6 mile 23 from all over, way up past Sackets Harbor 24 230kV Transmission Facility from Galloo Island 24 way down towards Syracuse. Up and down the 25 in the Town of Hounsfield, Jefferson County 25 lake people have been coming to this
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Page 5 Page 7 1 1 2 blueberry farm, and it's only been producing 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Margaret Gavin. 3 two years. The second year we produced 3 MS. GAVIN: Yes. 4 twice as much as we did the first year. We 4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: By the way, I 5 have people from Connecticut that come here 5 apologize but if you have specific proposals, 6 in the summer. They love this place. It's 6 which I think I heard Miss French say, you 7 beautiful. They bring their children. To 7 should make sure that you get those specific 8 run high-tension wires through this 8 proposals to the staff of the department as 9 magnificent area, you know, I love it, but 9 well as to the applicant. 10 it's gorgeously clean and we propose, we have 10 MS. GAVIN: Okay. I think my aunt 11 a proposal which we will submit that will 11 has said just about all that needs to be 12 possibly go around the blueberry fields, the 12 said about the blueberry place and how much 13 present one and the proposed one. I'd like 13 effort we've put into it and how really 14 to just make a great point that we knew 14 upsetting it is to have, you know, all your 15 nothing about this. We have not ever been 15 work and then you hear through some fluke 16 informed, and I don't know how they decided 16 thing that they're going to put a 17 to run through a blueberry or a deer fence 17 high-tension pole through there, couple big 18 on both sides and go over or under or 18 poles. I mean, it's just not aesthetically 19 whatever they want to do through here. I 19 pleasing. It's an organic blueberry farm and 20 have a drawing. If anybody wants to look at 20 we care about the environment and what they 21 it, pick it up. It's probably two-thirds of 21 put in their bodies, and then I hear things, 22 the existing blueberry field that is now 22 you know, I get things off the internet that 23 producing. So, I have questions. My one 23 says the high-tension wires can cause cancer 24 question is how high are these columns, these 24 from the electromagnetic field. Now, you 25 posts, and I understand the posts are going 25 know, there's studies that say that's not
Page 6 Page 8 1 1 2 to be 5 to 600 feet apart, if that's 2 true and studies that say it is true, but 3 correct, and I understand they might be about 3 for me I'm a little sensitive about it 4 a hundred feet. So, if anybody from the 4 because I finished radiation on Thursday, 5 engineer department wants to clarify that, 5 okay, and for me to have to work under this 6 I'd appreciate it. 6 wire eight, ten hours a day for three, four 7 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Ma'am, if you 7 months and worry about that, that's enough to 8 could speak with those technical people after 8 cause something. So, they need to move it. 9 your statement, that would be fine. This is 9 I have looked at the drawings. There's all 10 not the forum to put in that specific kind 10 kinds of bends on that thing to avoid trees. 11 of evidence. 11 They can avoid the blueberry farm where 12 MS. FRENCH: Okay. Thank you. I 12 people are going to be out there picking and 13 have with with me my partner, my niece, from 13 we're going to be out there working, and 14 New Jersey. She has been put in hours and 14 that's all I have to say about it, and they 15 hours on this with my son and his wife. We 15 should have notified us. Thank you. 16 all have been working on this place, and 16 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for your 17 each one of us have specific talents which 17 comments. The next speaker I have is George 18 have gone together to produce this farm and 18 Randleman. Is he here? Okay, if he comes 19 the whole blueberry site, which by the way, 19 back we'll save that. The next card I have 20 we're the only one between farther down in 20 is for Holly Austin. 21 Pulaski or Mexico and up north towards 21 MS. HOLLY AUSTIN: Hello. My name 22 Massena. So, I guess that's our statement. 22 is Holly Austin. I'm an attorney with the 23 Margie, do you have anything, who is my 23 law firm of Hancock and Estabrook. I 24 partner? You're second in line I understand 24 represent the Town of Henderson in this 25 to speak anyways, if you want to add to it. 25 matter. The town is a formal party and will
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Page 9 Page 11 1 1 2 be participating in the various stages of 2 many years. It's our family home. It's 3 comments, so I'll keep my remarks brief and 3 also important to note that the proposed 4 to the point today since we will have 4 siting of the transmissions lines violates 5 further opportunities to participate, but I 5 the town zoning code. Under the town code, 6 would like to give a brief overview of what 6 transmission rights are prohibited entirely in 7 the town's formal position is with regards to 7 various zones. Others require a special-use 8 this hearing. The town is vehemently opposed 8 permit, and obviously none of those will be 9 to the planned transmission line coming 9 an option with regard to these proposed 10 through the town at all, and particularly 10 facilities because of the rules of the Public 11 opposed to both of the proposed routes. 11 Service Commission. I think they're an 12 I think you will come to hear and 12 important reflection of the values of the 13 understand in the course of today that the 13 community in regard to the transmissions 14 foundation of this entire community is 14 lines. They also violate the principles of 15 tourism, seasonal use, fishing, boating, 15 overlay district to protect the scenic views 16 outdoor recreation of all varieties as well 16 along the edge of the lake. In addition, 17 as, of course, as agricultural uses. 17 the proposed route goes right through a new 18 In 2001, the town put together a 18 water and sewer district was targeted as an 19 comprehensive plan conducted some surveys of 19 area intended for residential development, and 20 members of the community. They got about a 20 that's going to have an impact and 21 20 percent response on the survey which is 21 significantly alter the comprehensive plan for 22 significant. Respondents were asked to rate 22 this town. I believe -- 23 the level of importance of ten factors 23 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I apologize. Is 24 including such things as recreational 24 that development currently on the town maps? 25 opportunities, water and sewer availabilities 25 In other words, if somebody came in to look,
Page 10 Page 12 1 1 2 to improve the small town atmosphere. The 2 would they would know that that area was 3 number one response of the greatest 3 subject to development? 4 importance to people in this community was 4 MS. AUSTIN: Yes, it is part of 5 the natural beauty of the area, and a 5 proposed water and sewer district. 6 similar area of concern of the same survey 6 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Okay, proposed, but 7 was the scenic preservation of the area, and 7 if I came into the town hall and I said "Do 8 the second highest response was protection 8 you have any documentation showing where this 9 for a 4.4 out of 5 which was second only to 9 development was going to go?", would the town 10 the generic quality of life category. 10 have that documentation? 11 Obviously, this is a community that's very 11 MS. AUSTIN: There's no specific 12 concerned about the visual impact of this 12 application that's been filed to engage in 13 proposed project. Nearly 50-percent of the 13 the development. It's just part of the 14 inhabitants of this community is seasonal, 14 comprehensive plan where they hoped the 15 which, of course, has an impact on this 15 development would occur. 16 project. A lot of the residents are not 16 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I would urge you 17 able to be here today and have some grave 17 to make that information known to the staff. 18 concerns about the amount of notice that has 18 MS. AUSTIN: Certainly we will. So, 19 been provided, particularly to seasonal 19 I guess in summary, the town's first request 20 residents who aren't available and have not 20 is avoid the town if possible. Of course, 21 received notice of what's going on and will 21 running lines underground is preferable, 22 not have an opportunity to participate. 22 particularly in the scenic overlay districts 23 Roughly 46 percent of residents have had 23 and areas where it will have a significant 24 their homes here for more than 25-years. 24 visual impact and have a harmful impact on 25 These are people who come back for many, 25 seasonal use and tourism and outdoor
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Page 13 Page 15 1 1 2 recreation. The town will be submitting some 2 the Mexico substation. So, going north to 3 additional proposals for an alternative route 3 then go south does not seem rational, 4 that would cut out some of the route through 4 especially if swinging southward around Stony 5 the town and go through much less populated 5 Island was never considered. No potential 6 areas of the town as opposed to what has 6 impediments to initially swinging well 7 already been proposed. That's my conclusion, 7 southward around Stony Island were ever 8 unless you have further questions. Thank 8 identified or evaluated. So, this routing 9 you. 9 possibility south of Stony Island will be 10 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you very 10 discussed, but first I want to address the 11 much. At the outset I didn't tell you this 11 much more promising underwater route. 12 and I apologize, but under New York State 12 A line from Galloo Island almost due 13 law you all have a right of privacy to not 13 south intercepts the mainland, not at Oswego 14 be photographed. Otherwise, the photography 14 but at Nine Mile Point. This is the 15 that goes on in here is completely legal, 15 location of the well known Nine Mile Point 16 but if you get up and make a statement and 16 Nuclear Power station. It has a combined 17 don't want to appear in video somewhere, you 17 nameplate capacity of 1761 megawatts for both 18 have the absolute right to ask for that and 18 Unit 1 and Unit 2. Unit 3, with a capacity 19 I will ask that the cameras be turned off in 19 of 1600 megawatts is in the proposal stage. 20 that event. I meant to cover that at the 20 So, with a potential for more than 3.3 21 outset. I apologize. The next card I have 21 gigawatts, Nine Mile Point has or will have 22 is John Irwin. Mr. Irwin. 22 ample opportunity for power connection to the 23 MR. IRWIN: My name is John Irwin. 23 grid. By the way, with only 1.21 gigawatts, 24 I a resident of Clay, New York, but my 24 you can go back to the future. 25 connection to the Town of Henderson is 25 Now, here are the exact words of the
Page 14 Page 16 1 1 2 through the yacht club. 2 application regarding the subaquatic route, 3 I contend that the consideration of 3 also known as the the all underwater route. 4 alternate routes is seriously flawed by 4 "This alternate requires little, if any, 5 superficial evaluation, lack of substantive 5 above ground structures on shore. Running 6 analysis, and occasionally by truly specious 6 almost completely below water, this alternate 7 arguments. In short, alternate routes were 7 would result in little or no impacts to 8 given only lip service. Because of the 8 mainland cultural or agricultural resources. 9 shortcomings, Upstate NY Power Corp's 9 Few, if any, residential structures would be 10 application is deficient and vulnerable to 10 impacted. Likewise, land owner concerns 11 challenge. 11 would be minimized as the State of New York 12 Now, I have three segments. The 12 owns the majority of land crossed by this 13 first I want to address is the alternate 13 alternate. Similarly, this offshore route 14 route, which is the all underwater route. 14 would result in in few, if any, impacts to 15 Then I want to describe a route passing 15 onshore environmental resources such as 16 south of Stony Island that was never 16 wetlands and soils." Sounds very attractive, 17 considered, and in the third segment I want 17 so what is the problem. 18 to address the Coffeen Street interconnection 18 The application words continue: "... 19 issues. Interposed between Galloo Island and 19 the cost of this all underwater route is 20 the mainland is Stony Island. So any 20 estimated as more than $185 million. This 21 transmission line to the nearest landfall 21 route presented relatively high construction 22 must swing around Stony Island either to the 22 and material costs, including the cost of 23 north or to the south. The proposed route 23 underwater cable and need for an extensive 24 swings to the north, even though the 24 lakebed survey. There were also potential 25 transmission line must proceed southward to 25 reliability concerns associated with the
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Page 17 Page 19 1 1 2 subaquatic cable of this length in the event 2 always blow, so somewhat extended downtime 3 of a failure and extended repair time as 3 for repair is not a disaster. Since Galloo 4 compared to a overhead mainland facility. 4 is an island, at least some subaquatic 5 Therefore, this rule was not evaluated 5 facilities must be dealt with. Whether it 6 further. What is conspicuously missing is an 6 is nine miles or 26 miles is simply a matter 7 economic comparison with the selected route. 7 of degree. 8 If we take the selected route as costing 8 The direct path southward drops 9 approximately $153 million, I contend that 9 rapidly into water with a depth greater than 10 the life-cycle costs, I repeat, life cycle 10 10 fathoms, so jetting the came into sediment 11 costs, including 20-year PILOT payments, 11 may not be necesary at this depth. 12 easement, option and right-of-way costs should 12 Protection for ice scour at the shorelines is 13 be compared. Suppose the annual costs for 13 no worse than the Galloo to Stony Point 14 the upland facilities are 1.5 million dollars 14 cable route. 15 per year. Then $153 plus $30 million is 15 In the application, Ocean Surveys, 16 very close to $185 million. (Note that all 16 which is a corporation, specifically states 17 of these numbers are soft, because they 17 that they were directed by ESS Group not to 18 depend upon assumptions that could turn out 18 survey any lakebed except the proposed 19 to be either optomistic or pessimistic.) 19 north-around route, although they initially 20 In fact, the application states "The 20 started reconnaissance to the south and east 21 estimated local tax base impacts are 21 of Galloo Island. 22 anticipated to be $2 million dollars annually 22 Okay. Now I want to turn to an 23 project wise, which is, of course, referring 23 alternate route that was never considered, 24 to the wind generation facility's transmission 24 southward around Stony Island to come ashore 25 line," not the wind towers themselves. So, 25 in the vicinity of Little Stony Creek. This
Page 18 Page 20 1 1 2 this is to say that economic benefits to the 2 landfall would be north of Southwick State 3 towns and counties for the upland route are 3 Park, slightly north of the #7 buoy that 4 foregone, but instead would accrue to the 4 marks Drowned Island and south of Black Pond. 5 underwater route. This is an eliptical way 5 Since Stony Island shoals off to the 6 of saying if you don't have to pay $2 6 southwest, the subaquatic route should stay 7 million dollars per year to the towns and 7 west of the #5 buoy which is Calf Island 8 counties, that makes the underwater route 8 Spit. Once ashore, the transmission line can 9 that much more attractive. 9 follow a southward path to the Mexico 10 The claim about reliability of a 10 interconnect. Swinging south around Stony 11 subaquatic route is without merit. An 11 Island to proceed overland in a southerly 12 underwater cable is not affected by an ice 12 direction seems more logical than going north 13 storm, or by lightning. Everyone here 13 to then go south. However, there may be 14 remembers well the ice storm of 1998 and the 14 other considerations involving the chosen 15 severe disruptions for weeks and months it 15 route that are not being revealed at this 16 caused. 16 time. 17 Reliability could also be enhanced by 17 One alternate route that is mentioned 18 dropping a fourth 2000 kilo-circular-mil 18 is between Stony Island and Calf Island. 19 copper strand as a spare for the three 19 This is an example of choosing an obviously 20 phases, and hopefully cables will be dropped 20 poor route and then arguing against it. All 21 meanders so that they could be grappled and 21 the arguments are correct, it may require 22 pulled up for repair. 22 horizontal directional drilling, there maybe 23 Another consideration is that wind 23 bedrock in the path, and sediment for cover 24 energy facilities could not provide baseload, 24 may not been adequate. The only slight 25 for the simple reason that the wind does not 25 argument in favor is that this is a shorter
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Page 21 Page 23 1 1 2 path than around Stony Island. 2 interconnection. An assumption of high 3 For a truly specious argument, 3 incremental cost to the project in order to 4 consider 3.7, the No Action alternate, 4 upgrade facilities in Zone E to accommodate 5 described thusly in pertinent phrases: "The 5 the interconnection led to the elimination of 6 alternate course of taking no action and 6 these Zone E opportunities. 7 building no new transmissions lines was 7 Now, the cryptic phrases here are 8 considered." Really. "The proposed wind 8 "concentration of wind projects" and "location 9 power generating facility is located on an 9 of wind generation in the que." What 10 island in Lake Ontario... the no action 10 exactly is being said here? Does this mean 11 alternate would render the proposed wind farm 11 that Coffeen Street is reserved for other, 12 economically infeasible... Hence, the no 12 future north country wind projects, since it 13 action alternate was dropped from 13 would certainly be geographically closer? Or 14 consideration." I suspect that butter would 14 does this simply say that there will be 15 not melt in the mouth of the person who 15 choke points in the future? It most 16 wrote this, but they satisfied Public Service 16 certainly does not say upgrades are ruled 17 Law 122(1)(e) and 16 NYCRR Section 17 out. But this is used as the argument to 18 86.4(a)(3). I submit that not only would 18 eliminate a Coffeen Street interconnection. 19 the project be "economically infeasible," it 19 What is also conspicuously missing is 20 might be "technically challenging" without a 20 a realistic cost comparison between the 21 transmission line. The tale does not wag 21 Coffeen Street innerconnect, which is the 22 the dog. 22 shortest route, and the proposed route 23 Okay, finally I want to discuss the 23 southward. In quotes, "An assumption of high 24 Watertown interconnect opportunities, which are 24 incremental cost" is not a substitute for 25 the Coffeen Street 115kV substation and the 25 evaluating the actual cost of hanging modern
Page 22 Page 24 1 1 2 East Watertown 115kV substation. I will 2 cable and insulators to upgrade the Coffeen 3 refer to these collectively as Coffeen 3 Street facilities on their way to the 4 Street, because they're both in the Watertown 4 regional grid. The blitheness with which 5 area. They are in Zone E of the State of 5 Coffeen Street is dismissed is astounding. 6 New York Independent System Operator, and 6 Here's another example of decision 7 connect to a NYPA 345kV line. Note that the 7 making, taken from 3.4.1.3: "This route 8 Edic-Fitzpatrick substation falls within Zone 8 provided an interconnection with the regional 9 C. 9 power grid that avoided Douglaston Manor 10 Now, the application states "A New 10 Incorporated property and avoided the densely 11 York Independent System Operator's preliminary 11 settled area of the Village of Pulaski in 12 study of Zones D and E found that (sic), 12 the Town of Richland, Oswego County, New 13 "... the potential for transmission 13 York. Discussions with landowners along this 14 limitations due to concentration of wind 14 alternate route indicated that there was 15 projects in specific locations," and that 15 opposition to the location of structures in 16 "based on megawatts and location of wind 16 certain areas and therefore this route was 17 generation in the que, lack of transmission 17 abandoned from further consideration." My 18 may restrict future energy deliveries from 18 colleagues in the Town of Henderson would 19 wind plants in various localities especially 19 certainly like to enjoy the same spirit of 20 Zones D and E." The application words 20 comity. 21 continue, now that was a quote from the 21 So, in conclusion, I contend that 22 Independent System Operator concluded that 22 the evaluation of alternate routes has been 23 routing opportunities relying on Zone E 23 superficial, illogical and without substantive 24 interconnections would lack sufficient 24 analysis. Arm waving arguments are not a 25 electrical capacity for the Galloo Island 25 substitute for making careful well-reasoned
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Page 25 Page 27 1 1 2 choices. I urge the Public Service 2 plan. They are all defined by maps in 3 Commission to pull out a fresh sheet of 3 color. The comprehensive plan also 4 paper. 4 identified and mapped a zone of priority 5 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you, sir. 5 character and area because of its proximity 6 The next card I have is Robert Ashodian. 6 to the shoreline of Lake Ontario and 7 MR. ASHODIAN: My name is Robert 7 Henderson Bay which was deserving of special 8 Ashodian. I'm a resident here in the Town 8 focus and attention to preserve the character 9 of Henderson. I'm also a member of the 9 of this community. The chart on the wall 10 Board of Assessment Review, so I'm familiar 10 over here is an enlargement of the map that 11 with property values. I am also a member of 11 appears in the comprehensive plan. The areas 12 the Planning Board of Henderson, and today I 12 that look like hatches from here are the 13 am speaking on behalf of the Henderson Harbor 13 areas along that shoreline, the areas along 14 Area Chamber of Commerce Economic Development 14 the Seaway Trail, the areas around the Town 15 Committee. 15 of Henderson, and the area around Crisco 16 I have provided a letter to the 16 Lake. Those areas are specifically 17 judges, and I would like to read that 17 identified as the corridore overlay district. 18 letter. The most recent locating of the 18 Those areas are specifically identified as 19 transmission lines for the Galloo Island 19 PPS. See page 52 of the comprehensive plan, 20 project is in complete violation of the 20 and the areas on the chart identified as the 21 intent, vision and goals for the Town of 21 current overlay zone. That's a chart I 22 Henderson as described in the comprehensive 22 encourage you to take a look at. I 23 land use plan for the Town of Henderson. 23 encourage the Applicant to take a look at 24 This is the plan. It is filled with charts. 24 it. This zone includes the area 25 It is filled with the inventory of what's 25 approximately 2,000 feet back from our
Page 26 Page 28 1 1 2 valuable to this community. It's filled with 2 shoreline, areas worth protecting back 2000 3 the needs of this community. This plan was 3 feet from key highways that run near the 4 developed with the joint participation of 4 shoreline, the Seaway Trail, the center of 5 representives from the Henderson town board, 5 the Town of Henderson and Crisco Lake. This 6 the planning board, the zoning board of 6 area, especially along the shoreline, 7 appeals, Jefferson County planning, and the 7 represents the currently most valuable 8 cooperation of others from the community over 8 property and the most likely to be developed 9 several years. Surveys were taken. Public 9 in the future. We find it absolutely 10 forums were held, and a very careful 10 incredulous that the proposed transmission 11 examination was made of the resources of this 11 line goes directly through the corridor 12 community. The comprehensive plan was 12 overlay zone. The current mapping shows the 13 approved in 2004. The comprehensive plan 13 transmission line coming ashore on the north 14 pointed out the many scenic resources of the 14 face of Stony Point across the zone, across 15 community and the sweeping views of the lake, 15 prime agricultural and rural residential land 16 harbors, farm fields and other spectacular 16 and back to the corridor overlay zone where 17 views. Those natural resources are at the 17 it does not simply cross the zone but 18 heart of the economic survival of this 18 follows it length wise passing close by 19 community. The comprehensive plan identified 19 White's Bay, two marinas, the town boat 20 historical structures and landmarks such as 20 launch area. It does not simply cross the 21 the Thomas Dobson House. The comprehensive 21 zone, but it follows it length wise passing 22 plan identified the most likely areas for 22 by these areas. The proposed transmission 23 residential development, for residential and 23 line continues through the very center of the 24 small mixed uses for agricultural and rural 24 overlay zone that includes the Seaway Trail 25 residential uses, and they are all in the 25 right there in the center of that map, which
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Page 29 Page 31 1 1 2 we see in reference in the comprehensive land 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: The next speaker I 3 use plan for the Town of Henderson or in any 3 have is Pete Price. Mr. Price. 4 of the documentation provided. This is a 4 MR. PRICE: Good afternoon. My name 5 key point. How can a public, or how can we 5 is Pete Price, and I'm owner of 40 acres of 6 think about building or having a utility of 6 land and a small business east of and 7 this magnitude built and there's no 7 adjoining Route 3. My back property line is 8 reference, no reference whatsoever to a plan 8 Big Stony Creek. I hope everyone here is 9 the citizens of this community put together. 9 enjoying this September weather we're 10 It's incomprehensible. We have to conclude 10 observing in November, and that's some common 11 that a long term land use plan was never 11 ground that we all have, which might be the 12 considered, never reviewed, never even looked 12 only common ground. However, we share in some 13 at. If it had been looked at it would 13 more common ground, which is preserving this 14 appear that steps were taken to specifically 14 planet. However, the only way that we're 15 run the transmission line directly through as 15 going to accomplish this is if mankind leaps. 16 much of the town's most valuable properties 16 It's an unachievable goal no matter how much 17 as possible. We are appalled that such a 17 green is forced upon us. In my layman's 18 plan has come so far in total disregard for 18 opinion, your plan to accommodate this 19 this community. 19 proposed transmission line was accomplished 20 We ask the Public Service Commission 20 with inadequate planning and research 21 to make a thorough review of the content of 21 resulting in immediate negative economic and 22 the comprehensive land use plan for the Town 22 environmental impact on my business, land 23 of Henderson and the relevance of that on 23 values and quality of life. New York State 24 document for any proposed siting of the 24 purchased the fishing rights to Big Stony 25 transmission line. We ask that the entire 25 Creek and has a 33-foot right-of-way. This
Page 30 Page 32 1 1 2 routing process be re-evaluated. We ask that 2 was accomplished to preserve the asset to our 3 no routing include the violations of the 3 community. I initiated zoning changes to 4 corridor overlay zone. Attached to this 4 eliminate the commercial exposure sure to Big 5 letter, which I will provide at tonight's 5 Stony. This action was accomplished to keep 6 hearing, will be this comprehensive plan. If 6 and preserve the natural beauty of our town. 7 anybody on the Applicant side would like to 7 I planted 500 plus trees with several hundred 8 answer the question right now, I would invite 8 having 25 years of growth to enhance the 9 them to do so. Have you ever seen this 9 existing natural corridor of wild life that 10 document? 10 Big Stony provides. I installed in sections 11 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I can assure you, 11 of a thousand feet of underground utilities 12 sir, that that question will be asked now 12 to preserve the natural aesthetics of my 13 that you have raised it so pointedly. 13 land. I invite anyone from the developing 14 MR. ASHODIAN: I have signed the 14 agency to come to my land and witness what I 15 card twice. I have some other comments I 15 have attempted to accomplish to preserve my 16 would like towards the end which will reflect 16 piece of this community. 17 personal opinion, but I wanted to get this 17 I'd like to explain my land and I'm 18 on the record as a representative and as 18 going to try to speak loud enough for 19 Chairman of the Economic Development Committee 19 everybody to hear. Can everybody here? 20 for the Henderson Harbor Area Chamber of 20 Great. This is my 40 acres of land depicted 21 Commerce, which I can assure you is deeply, 21 here with Big Stony Creek being the back 22 deeply involved in looking at what is going 22 border of my land. The yellow is our 23 on in this town as it regards the 23 residential lots. These are residential 24 transmission line and the Galloo Island wind 24 lots. This one is owned by Iris Brunell, 25 farm project. Thank you very much. 25 vacant, my home, vacant. Underground
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Page 33 Page 35 1 1 2 utilities coming in serve these four lots. 2 our property, which includes an existing barn 3 The gray area is commercially zoned land, 3 at 8155 New York State Route 3, Henderson. 4 three parcels. Each one of which I have 4 We are opposed to any transmission line that 5 started. This is an improved storage 5 would pass over our property. Our long 6 development of which I have one building up, 6 range plans in the future are to construct a 7 the pad poured for the second one in also 7 new home on the south side of our existing 8 Ray Waldy's property of which I have a 8 barn on our 2.25 acres of land. We did not 9 letter from Mr. Waldy as he could not be 9 notice that the black dotted lines on the 10 present. This is his existing storage 10 map, which leads us to believe that this 11 building and his proposed house. This 11 entire area would be considered for the 12 depicts a two-hundred foot right-of-way with 12 proposed power transmission line, one dotted 13 a cable in the middle. This is proposed to 13 line north of our property, and the other 14 go directly over Mr. Waldy's barn and without 14 south of our property. After looking at the 15 encumbering any more of my development and 15 area on the map, the area closer to the 16 taking away actually is the effort that I 16 dotted line south seems to make more sense. 17 have applied to this land. I have a real 17 Less impact on established population and 18 problem that there was inadequate planning to 18 existing structures. Please note the most 19 accomplish this tasks of putting this cable 19 southern area available would be our pick if 20 through my land, as I cannot make this work. 20 we had to pick an appropriate route for a 21 It looks as if this company is attempting to 21 power transmission line. We would require 22 drive a rope through the eye of a needle to 22 you to move the line further south. We 23 achieve a destination, and I just would like 23 would not want power lines near our new home 24 an explanation of why this was accomplished. 24 on this parcel of land. I would like to 25 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for 25 add also that unless I wouldn't have had my
Page 34 Page 36 1 1 2 those comments. 2 ears to the ground I would not be here 3 MR. PRICE: Could I read Mr. Waldy's 3 today, because I have never been contacted in 4 letter? 4 any way, shape or form of this transmission 5 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Well, you can 5 line." 6 either read it and/or hand it to us. 6 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: This one I'll 7 MR. PRICE: I'll submit it. Can I 7 definitely get wrong, but I'll give it a 8 read it? 8 try. Robert Aliasso. 9 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Apparently so, yes. 9 MR. ALIASSO: With respect to the 10 MR. PRICE: Ray Waldy and Sharon 10 crowd, I'm going to make my argument to Your 11 Waldy own a parcel of land across the road 11 Honors' that are sitting here at the head 12 from me of which the transmission line is 12 table. I have two letters, one of which I 13 depicted as going directly over their new 13 am not reading, one of which I will read. 14 barn. "We have asked Mr. Peter Price, our 14 Both were given to the court stenographer and 15 neighbor, his residence is across from our 15 he has those right now. 16 property on New York State Route 3, to hand 16 I'm Robert Aliasso representing the 17 carry our letter of concern to the power 17 Economic Development Committee part of the 18 line meeting at the Henderson, New York Town 18 Henderson Harbor Area Chamber of Commerce. 19 Hall on Monday the 16th. Unfortunately, we 19 I'll start with the letter. This letter and 20 will not be able to attend this meeting due 20 its attachment are entered into the public 21 to a conflict with having to be in Buffalo. 21 record of the November 16th public hearing on 22 We have reviewed a copy of the 22 subject case hosted by the DPS in the Town 23 aerial overview of the proposed route for a 23 of Henderson and shall be made part of the 24 future power transmission line on November 24 permanent case records. 25 11th. This proposed route goes directly over 25 Our Board and the business members
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Page 37 Page 39 1 1 2 we represent are opposed to the project 2 proceed. The overall effect will be the 3 adjoined Case 09-T-0049 and find many sources 3 reverse of Economic Development that our 4 of expected negative socio-economic benefit if 4 Chamber of Commerce is promoting - resulting 5 the DPS determines public need of said Case. 5 in economic survival. The developer provides 6 We are also opposed to the project based on 6 no in-depth economic impact analysis in their 7 the environmental incompatibility when 7 project data, and we respectfully request 8 considering the ecological and environmental 8 this data be provided for the benefit of 9 resources that will be devastated, damaged or 9 review by the DPS, DEC and the affected 10 irreversibly altered. 10 towns. The decision by our New York State 11 After review of the published data 11 lead agencies should be delayed until which 12 associated with this Case, as well as WTG 12 time adequate factual data can be provided by 13 project DEIS, and data available from 13 the developer and analyzed by said parties. 14 knowledgeable third party reference sources, 14 If this project is as robust technically and 15 we are very concerned with the negative 15 commercially as the seasoned developer Upstate 16 impact to our areas's delicate economy, 16 NY Power claims in their project data, this 17 highly dependent upon tourism, recreation and 17 request should be easily and timely 18 agricultural sectors, should the subject 18 submitted. 19 project proceed. The need for dependable 19 The creation of jobs and supply 20 alternative energy energy is very important, 20 chain associated with the construction of 21 but not at the expense of negative 21 this project is also an unknown 22 socio-economic harm left in the wake of 22 benefit/impact. The WTG project will have 23 developers such as Upstate NY Power Corp. 23 many components from foreign sources, or 24 We have studied knowledgeable 24 supplied within the developer's overall 25 reference sources such as Beacon Hill 25 corporate structure. This is a contentious
Page 38 Page 40 1 1 2 Institute's Cost Benefit Analysis of Wind 2 issue, one which has received national 3 Projects and Appraisal Group One Wind Turbine 3 attention, especially the recent requwest from 4 Impact Study to postulate the extent of 4 Senator Schumer to halt a project in West 5 negative socio-economic impact to our business 5 Texas due to large Federal subsidy 6 members and to this diverse area commonly 6 essentially creating jobs on foreign shores. 7 referred to as the Golden Crescent. The 7 We implore the DPS to consider both the WTG 8 attached letter from one of our our business 8 project and the transmission line construction 9 members, Association Island RV Resort and 9 as one project when determining job creation, 10 Marina, LLC is attached and made part of 10 effective use of federal money and long-term 11 this letter. This business is one of the 11 economic impact to the host area. 12 highest properties in Henderson, physically 12 Today, you will also hear from our 13 the closest to the wind turbine generation 13 Chamber President, Mr. Karl Williams, who 14 project, the majority of the subaquatic 14 will read several other member letters, and a 15 cable, and the landing point of the 15 Town of Henderson Planning Board member, Mr. 16 subaquatic cable. Mrs. Shim's letter 16 Bob Ashodian. The latter will discuss in 17 summarizes many points very well, that 17 depth the synergy between the Economic 18 substantiate the project developer's 18 Development Committee and the town of 19 ineffectiveness in their project data to 19 Henderson Comprehensive Land Use Plan, 20 recognize the economic impact to the Town of 20 developed at substantial expense and 21 Henderson, and in some case recognition at 21 forethought as to the quality and character 22 all. 22 of development that closely matches our 23 The main points of her letter 23 area's preservation of resources and future 24 clearly outline the irreparable economic harm 24 business expansion plans. The proposed 25 they will be faced with should this project 25 project will severely harm our ability to
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Page 41 Page 43 1 1 2 follow our Town's Plan for Economic 2 you out of respect. I am the President of 3 Development, limit our Committee's ability to 3 the Henderson Harbor Area Chamber of 4 attract or maintain business, and degrade our 4 Commerce, and a member of the Coalition For 5 tax base by an expected sharp decline in 5 the Preservation of the Golden Crescent. 6 property values and thus business viability. 6 Today, I have three letters, two are similar, 7 Regarding the agricultural and dairy 7 I will read two of them to you and I'll 8 industry, prevalent in the area, and 8 give the letters over to the court 9 essential to the routing of the proposed 9 stenographer. Before I do though, I would 10 Upstate NY Power Corporation's transmission 10 like to make one comment, and that is that 11 line, we have interviewed several farmers, a 11 we've been appalled at the secrecy of this 12 few of which are candidates for the routing 12 process. This is not acceptable. I would 13 of the transmission line. Overwhelmingly, 13 not have known about this unless a young 14 their feelings to this project are very 14 lady had meteorlogical tower sited in her 15 negative and considered a personal attack on 15 front yard. She began to ring the alarm 16 their freedoms, as a small family owned 16 bells, and Peter Price had been hearing 17 business owner. They cite disruption to 17 things, nothing substantive but hearing a few 18 their crops and livestock as highly probable 18 things, and we began to put these together 19 outcomes, both of which may force several of 19 only to realize that we were involved in a 20 these businesses to the beink of extinction. 20 process that's been almost two-years in the 21 We understand from these interviews that the 21 making, and we know our town leaders failed, 22 small subsidy they would receive for either 22 but we began to raise the issues, and I do 23 lump sum settlement or lease payments would 23 want to go on record of saying I do not 24 be outstripped several fold by loss of 24 believe the process that is used in this 25 revenue due to decreased milk production. 25 siting should be continued. It should be
Page 42 Page 44 1 1 2 Jefferson County has prided itself on its 2 stopped. It should be re-visited and the 3 well-established dairy and agricultural 3 community should be made aware in a better 4 industry - a decision to allow this project 4 fashion. 5 to proceed would undo two centuries of blood, 5 I'll be reading letters from people 6 seat and tears building a proud legacy of 6 that aren't here that are appalled. I'm 7 these farms passed from parent to child and 7 getting calls and emails from Washington, 8 so on. 8 D.C.; San Diego, California; Arlington, 9 If this project proceeds, we will be 9 Virginia. It's coming in daily, and these 10 faced with an irreversible and devastating 10 people are very angry and they're angered 11 effect to our environment, local business, 11 that they didn't get a chance to have a 12 dairy and agricultural economies, a degraded 12 debate any time earlier. The Chamber of 13 tax base and sharply declining real estate 13 Commerce has filed as an interested party, 14 value. We ask that NYSDPS rule against the 14 and I need to remind folks here in the room 15 public need for a 50.6 mile transmission 15 that we've asked for a six month extension 16 facility associated with Case 09-T-0049. 16 in this process so that there can be an open 17 And with that and the attached 17 and fair debate. 18 letter from Mrs. Shim that is attached which 18 The first letter I'll read to you is 19 the Court already has, I thank you for your 19 from a woman by the name of Susan Washburn. 20 time. 20 She resides at 13680 County Route 123, 21 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you, sir. 21 Henderson Harbor, New York. She's the 22 The next card I have is Karl Williams. Mr. 22 principal in Powers Group of North Carolina, 23 Williams. 23 Inc. She writes the following letter. 24 MR. WILLIAMS: Good morning, Judges. 24 "Subject: Case 09-T-0049 Applications of 25 My name is Karl Williams. I will address 25 Upstate NY Power Group for Certificate of
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Page 45 Page 47 1 1 2 Environmental Compatibility and Public Need 2 which disturb, nor devastate the environment 3 For a 50.6 mile 230kV Transmission Facility. 3 as Upstate NY Power Corporations's project 4 I own property in Henderson Harbor, 4 will, for the short and long term. This is 5 NY. As a citizen and taxpayer, I am very 5 an area with a great diversity in the 6 concerned about the subject project 6 population, migration and breeding of wildlife 7 proceeding. The need for alternative energy 7 including birds, animals and aquatic creatures 8 is very important, and I fully support it, 8 of many kinds. Henderson and Galloo Island 9 but not this current proposal. 9 are also if significant and archeological 10 The associated transmission facility 10 interest. 11 which the DPS is holding a public hearing 11 The placement of the line and the 12 today, has prompted me to write this letter 12 determination to use a 230kV transmission 13 to be read into the minutes of the meeting 13 facility also concern us. In our research, 14 and become part of our concern and complete 14 we determined that the original project 15 opposition to the WTG construction on Galloo 15 specifications called for 115kV transmission 16 Island and the transmission facility. In 16 facility for the same WTG project. We 17 speaking with neighbors in the Town of 17 believe it is the developer's intention to 18 Henderson, it is apparent that there is an 18 build a substantially oversized transmission 19 overwhelming negative reaction regarding the 19 facility in the hopes of luring new 20 development of the project, and we suspect 20 developers in the area, or simply have a 21 you will receive many letters similar to 21 facility to handle their future developments 22 mine. Regrettably, I am not there to 22 in the area. Furthermore, the economic 23 represent myself at this meeting and hope 23 evaluation for a complete subaquatic 24 that this letter will serve to register my 24 transmission facility does not seem to be 25 opposition. 25 present, or offered. Is this due to cost,
Page 46 Page 48 1 1 2 We are aligned with the Coalition 2 or simply that our suspicions are correct - 3 for the Preservation of the Golden Crescent, 3 build it and they will come - more 4 in an attempt to voice our concerns against 4 developers will follow. ransmission in a 5 these projects. This Coalition is formed to 5 silt does not seem to be present or offered. 6 protect the Golden Crescent, a world renowned 6 Is this due to cost, or simply that our 7 fishery, hunting area and generally scenic 7 suspicions are correct - build it and they 8 wonder. The area is comprised of the 8 will come - more developers will follow. 9 various towns within Jefferson County and the 9 Unfortunately, the Henderson Town 10 northern Oswego County towns. This is the 10 Board and many Henderson citizens have only 11 exact area targeted to build the transmission 11 very recently recognized the significant 12 facility for a poorly selected WTG project. 12 implications of this project to the community 13 The 150 foot right of way traverses 13 and our quality of life. We are gravely 14 through one of the most scenic portions of 14 concened that NYS would allow a project of 15 our state, if not the country. It will 15 this magnitude, complexity and substantial 16 disturb countless protected species, fragile 16 negative affect to our quality of life to 17 lands, and fertile lands used for 17 proceed, and NYS would provide acceptance for 18 agricultural/dairy needs. This is the same 18 this project with a majority of the residents 19 area the NYSDEC placed protective custody 19 out of state at their winter homes. Why are 20 over the Double Breasted Cormorant several 20 these meetings held when the majority of 21 years ago, and is the only known nesting 21 citizens are not in the local area? 22 area in the state for the Caspian Tern. 22 If this project proceeds, we will be 23 Additionally, the area is highly dependent on 23 faced with an irreversible and devastating 24 its lands for the two main employers, namely 24 affect to our environment, local business 25 tourism/recreation and agriculture, neither of 25 economy, a degraded tax base and sharply
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Page 49 Page 51 1 1 2 declining real estate value. We ask that 2 renowened fishery, hunting area and generally 3 NYSDPS rule against the public need for a 3 scenic wonder. The area is comprised of the 4 50.6 mile transmission facility associated 4 various towns within Jefferson County and the 5 with Case 09-T-0049. Susan Washburn." I 5 northern Oswego County towns. This is the 6 respectfully submit that letter for your 6 exact area targeted to build the transmission 7 review. 7 facility for a poorly selected WTG project. 8 The next letter is addressed to the 8 The 150' right of way traverses 9 Honorable Judges here today. There will be 9 through one of the most scenic portions of 10 two letters of this type, and I will tell 10 our state, if not the country. It will 11 you first who sent them so I won't have to 11 disturb countless protected species, fragile 12 read them twice. The first is Sarah and 12 lands, and fertile lands used for 13 Jeffrey Haun, homeowners, 15321 Snowshoe Road, 13 agricultural/dairy needs. This is the same 14 Henderson, and the second one is Sharon 14 area the NYSDEC placed protective custody 15 Graves, 6685 Whites Bay Road, South 15 over the Double Breasted Cormorant several 16 Henderson, New York. "Subject case 09-T-0049 16 years ago, and is the only known nesting 17 Application of Upstate NY Power Corp. for 17 area in the state for the Caspian Tern. 18 Certificate of Environmental Compatibility and 18 Additionally, the area is highly dependent on 19 Public Need for 50.6 mile 230kV Transmission 19 its lands for the two main employers, namely 20 Facility. 20 tourism/recreation and agriculture, neither of 21 After review of the DEIS available 21 which disturb, nor devastate the environment 22 on the developer's website, data available 22 as Upstate NY Power Corporation's project 23 from the NYS DEC and PSC, we are very 23 will for the short and long term. This is 24 concerned about the subject project 24 an area with a great diversity in population, 25 proceeding. The need for alternative energy 25 migration and breeding of wildlife including
Page 50 Page 52 1 1 2 is very important, but not at the extremely 2 birds, animals and aquatic creatures of many 3 high rates of subsidies that the Federal 3 kinds. Henderson and Galloo Island are also 4 Government will provide the developers, such 4 of significant historical and archeological 5 as Upstate NY Power Corporation, or limited 5 interest. 6 need for new, especially marginally efficient, 6 The placement of the line and the 7 energy sources in this sector of the state. 7 determination to use a 230kV transmission 8 The associated transmission facility 8 facility also concern us. In our research, 9 which the DPS is holding a public hearing 9 we determined that the original project 10 today, has prompted me to write this letter 10 specifications called for a 115kV transmission 11 to be read into the minutes of the meeting 11 facility for the same WTG project. We 12 and become record of our concern and complete 12 believe it is the developer's intention to 13 opposition to the WTG construction on Galloo 13 build a substantially oversized transmission 14 Island and the transmission facility. In 14 facility in the hopes of luring new 15 speaking with neighbors in the Town of 15 developers in the area, or simply have a 16 Henderson, it is apparent that there is an 16 facility to handle their future developments 17 overwhelming negative reaction regarding the 17 in the area. Furthermore, the economic 18 development of the project, and we suspect 18 evaluation for a complete subaquatic 19 you will receive many letters similar to 19 transmission facility does not seem to be 20 ours. 20 present, or offered. Is this due to cost, 21 We are aligned with the Coalition 21 or simply that our suspicions are correct - 22 for the Preservation of the Golden Crescent, 22 build it and they will come - more 23 in an attempt to voice our concerns against 23 developers will follow. 24 these projects. This Coalition is formed to 24 Unfortunately, the Henderson Town 25 protect the Golden Crescent, a world 25 Board and many Henderson citizens have only
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Page 53 Page 55 1 1 2 very recently recognized the significant 2 at 11327 Rays Bay Road, Henderson. We're on 3 implications of this project to the community 3 the east side of the bay, so we're facing 4 and our quality of life. We live in 4 the western sunset. I've never been 5 California for the winter months as do a 5 privileged to have any children of my own 6 majority of residents throughout the Golden 6 but I am a retired educator of 38 years and 7 Crescent. We are gravely concerned that NYS 7 have had the great privilege and awesome 8 would allow a project of this magnitude, 8 responsibilities of doing the best I can for 9 complexity and substantial negative affect to 9 any child who came through my classroom. I 10 our quality of life to proceed, and NYS 10 am compelled today just to stand up here and 11 would provide acceptance for this project 11 say something to defend the future 12 with a majority of the residents out of 12 generation. I have no medical data. I have 13 state at their winter homes. 13 no scientific data. I have no economic data 14 Similar opposition is ongoing in this 14 as many of these fine people have who have 15 area near Cape Vincent, NY and throughout the 15 spoken today have, but I do have great 16 Finger Lakes region. The opposition for the 16 feelings of love for this area. I'm 17 latter is very strong, as Honorable 17 originally from Pennsylvania. I've been 18 Congressman Eric J. J. Massa (NY29) has taken 18 vacationing here since the 1980's. I have 19 the position directly to President Barack 19 owned land here since 1993 and I have lived 20 Obama and Energy Secretary Steven Chu. 20 full time since 2001 when I retired. To say 21 Through our affiliation with the Coalition 21 that we're going to consider the aesthetic 22 for the Preservation of the Golden Crescent, 22 impacts and to look at this area and realize 23 we have also appealed for similar support in 23 what other areas are going to have more 24 opposition to all state and federal 24 negative aesthetic impact than this area. We 25 representatives. 25 owe it to our children. Our federal
Page 54 Page 56 1 1 2 If this project proceeds, we will be 2 government has already ruined their fiscal 3 faced with an irreversible and devastating 3 lives for generations to come. We here in 4 effect to our environment, local business 4 Henderson need to preserve the beauty and the 5 economy, a degraded tax base and sharply 5 quality that this land has to offer, and as 6 declining real estate value. We ask that 6 the years go by and if there is more and 7 NYSDPS rule against the public need for a 7 more development throughout the area, we need 8 50.6 mile transmission facility associated 8 to safeguard such a special property. That's 9 with Case 09-T-0049. Sincerely, Sharon 9 all I have to say. Thank you for being 10 Graves." I'll submit those to you. 10 here. 11 I will make one statement in the 11 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for 12 closing. As a Chamber, we have about 120 12 those comments. The next speaker I have is 13 members. 75 are business members of small 13 Don Rossiter. Mr. Rossiter. It's Dan? I'm 14 and mid-sized companies. It was quite a 14 sorry. 15 surprise to us we had that many businesses 15 MR. ROSSITER: Okay. I'm Dan 16 here. We see this project as ruining our 16 Rossiter. We're dairy farmers in Ellisburg. 17 economy as we know it, and we are deeply 17 I wrote a few things down here. I hope I 18 worried. Thank you. 18 won't ramble. I told my wife Sharon if we 19 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for 19 were to address the PSC about some things 20 those comments. The next speaker is Marie 20 jot some things down and stick to the facts 21 Kardelis. 21 and not get emotional, and I started to jot 22 MS. KARDELIS: Good morning. Thank 22 some things down on my own and realized that 23 you, Judge Stockholm and thank you Judge 23 was impossible. 24 Casutto for being here today. I have very 24 I don't know if it's true in all 25 simple words. I'm a simple woman. I live 25 walks of life, but these farms become not
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Page 57 Page 59 1 1 2 only your livelihood but your life, your 2 here to voice my serious concerns and 3 dream. I'm not sure that the relentless 3 opposition to the proposed route for the 4 determination it takes to successfully run a 4 Upstate NY Power Corp project. Upstate NY 5 farm can be appreciated by everyone. Last 5 Power Corp, a private company, wants to route 6 winter for us that way of life was 6 a transmission line through our farm land. 7 assaulted. We were informed that a company 7 The route Upstate New York proposed would cut 8 called Upstate Power had plans to run a 8 through the very center of our farm. 9 power transmission line through the center of 9 Approximately four miles of the proposed high 10 our farm. Nobody knows better than us the 10 power transmission line would run through our 11 challenges and limitations involved with 11 farm's prime agricultural land. The reason 12 trying to crop around poles. And, as our 12 this power line is being proposed is to take 13 farm has gotten bigger and more controlled 13 the green electricity from the proposed 14 these obstacles become bigger and bigger. 14 Hounsfield wind farm project and Galloo 15 The people proposing this line are not a 15 Island and get it to the electrical grid 16 group of Northern New Yorker's as the name 16 where it can move around the state, most 17 would imply, but a group of wealthy investors 17 likely to New York City. Right now, it's 18 trying to cash in on the green subsidies 18 politically correct to be green. The state 19 that are currently available. Their votes 19 and federal green initiatives have provided 20 aren't registered in the Henderson Harbor 20 tax credits and carbon credits that have 21 area. They're registered in the Cayman 21 apparently made these new ventures quite 22 Islands. I guess they feel it's worth a 22 lucrative. My husband Daniel and I are 23 shot, the passage is clear. If we don't 23 dairy farmers. Much of our land is located 24 mount a defense, it's money in their pockets. 24 south of county route 85 and west of highway 25 I have always remained optomistic about dairy 25 29. Two large parcels also on Logdon Road.
Page 58 Page 60 1 1 2 farming in Northern New York. We have cold 2 We also own two large parcels north of 3 weather and it's a harsh life for dairy 3 Allard Road where Allard Road intercepts with 4 cows, but dairy farming like everything else 4 Johnson Road. As a dairy farmer and this 5 must compete in a global economy, and we 5 generation of dairy farmers whose livelihood 6 sure don't need any more obsticles thrown our 6 depends on this land, I'm here to tell you 7 way. Hurting production would be bad for the 7 that there's nothing green or earth friendly 8 economic community and devastating for us. 8 about building a transmission line in the 9 If the line is approved, we don't know what 9 middle of private land. The August 2009 10 affect it would have on the big picture. We 10 version of the draft state energy plan 11 don't know. But, I do know that we produce 11 recommends that the state should encourage 12 over 20 million pounds of milk a year and 12 cooperation in the development of electricity 13 over 125,000 pounds of beef a year. What I 13 transmission and distribution infrastructure on 14 am asking the PSC is don't put this in our 14 state-owned lands. Certifying a route 15 path. There are other routes available. 15 through prime agricultural land is contrary 16 This is prime farm land as it gets. Don't 16 to those recommendations where there are real 17 let these people destroy our dream for their 17 identifiable routes that take advantage of 18 own personal gain. The stakes are 18 state-owned lands. The most obvious of these 19 irreversible for us. Thank you for 19 is an underwater route from Galloo Island to 20 listening. 20 the NYPA substation in Scriba. Such a route 21 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: And now I do have 21 would be located for most of its distance on 22 a card from Sharon. Mrs. Rossiter. 22 underwater lands of the state, managed and 23 MS. ROSSITER: My name is Sharon 23 controlled by the State Office of General 24 Brockett Rossiter. I live at 5601 New York 24 Services. This route would have the least 25 State Route 289 Mannsville, New York. I'm 25 negative visual impact and least environmental
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Page 61 Page 63 1 1 2 impact for our towns and communities and 2 through our land. Total strangers came to 3 prime agricultural farm land. Other 3 put this line in and showed no respect for 4 alternative using state owned land also 4 our property, the value of our land or the 5 exist. The state owns extensive land between 5 food our land produced. They didn't always 6 the shorelines of Lake Ontario and Route 3. 6 stay in their right of way. They drove 7 Locating the new transmission line parallel 7 their trucks in our field over newly planted 8 to Route 3 on lands of the state would be 8 crops. Crops are sacred in our business. 9 consistent with the state energy plan 9 They left metal strappings in our fields. The 10 recommendations to use state owned lands and 10 metal detectors had to find it. We had to 11 to take advantage of other established land 11 stop the chopper every time we find one. We 12 developments. Let the state and the 12 stopped a lot. I'm sure when we turn our 13 taxpayers see their green energy at work. 13 land we will find more of their metal and 14 Governor Paterson has a special commission to 14 garbage. They parked all over our land. 15 look at state assets. You can get the most 15 They parked in our driveway. Couldn't seem 16 of the state asset surplus property through 16 to stay in the driveways. When they would 17 deals like these. A line along the Route 3 17 leave, there was garbage, wrappers or empty 18 state land would generate much needed 18 bottles. The proposed route would come 70 19 long-term revenue for the state. Another 19 feet from houses and barns as it croses 20 route that takes advantage of an existing 20 Route 289. There are other newer homes 21 transportation corridor would be one run from 21 along the old right of way which isn't big 22 Galloo Island to Hounsfield and then straight 22 enough for the proposed transmission line. 23 east to 81. There looks to be some big 23 We could lose about 50 to 100 acres of prime 24 lines riding south down from Watertown on the 24 agricultural land. We are a KAYFO farm. We 25 corridor of Route 81. The state could use 25 have complied with strict regulations from
Page 62 Page 64 1 1 2 route 81 as the national interest electric 2 New York DEC. I'm not sure how this will 3 transmission corridor. 3 impact our KAYFO plan. The destruction from 4 Part of our land proposed for this 4 this proposed project will change our acres, 5 project is an old abandoned 50 foot right of 5 drainage on soil not just during construction 6 way. It hasn't been used to transmit 6 but for years to come. It is farms like 7 electricity in approximately 20-years, and the 7 ours that make New York State rank as the 8 substation on both ends were sold 8 7th best place to farm in the United States, 9 approximately 15 years ago. To use the 9 and makes Jefferson County 4th in milk 10 abandoned right of way isn't the right way. 10 produced in New York State and 51st in the 11 To use the old right of way Upstate NY Power 11 United States. It puts Jefferson County in 12 wants more of our land on Allard Road that 12 the top ten percent of the physically robust 13 isn't part of the right of way. Moreover, 13 counties nation wide. The economic impact of 14 the proposed line would have the capacity to 14 Jefferson County's dairy industry is 42 15 expand to a thousand kV. The Hounsfield 15 million. We take great pried in our farm. 16 wind farm on Galloo Island only needs 230kV. 16 We employ 9 full-time people. Our herdsman 17 I walked the Allard route land wanted for 17 has worked with us for 25 hears. Our feeder 18 the proposed route with Andrew Davis of the 18 has worked with us 12 years. Our crop man 19 Department of Public Service staff. It was 19 has worked with us for nine years. Our farm 20 heartwrenching to envision a 150 foot swath 20 runs 7 days a week 365 days a year. We 21 cut down and through our land. I couldn't 21 milk about eight hundred cows twice daily and 22 bear to walk on the land with Mr. Davis. 22 produce over 20 million pounds of milk. We 23 This route crosses our land is heart 23 raise about 85 young stock, young stock being 24 breaking. We just watched as a water line 24 heifer calfs up through calfs before entering 25 approximately one-and-a-half miles was put 25 the milking herd. Our animals are treated
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Page 65 Page 67 1 1 2 better than some people. They are fed twice 2 looks like we planted rows of seagulls. 3 a day. They sleep on dry beds. Our 3 They come in from the lake to feast off our 4 veterinarians come on routine days and are on 4 land. All you have to do is look to the 5 call day and night. Our nutritionist works 5 sky of seagulls and you know what piece of 6 on feed rations used until grazing forage 6 land your neighboring farmer is working. The 7 ground on our farm. We farm approximately 7 seagulls are present during every cutting of 8 1250 acres of prime class A farm land. On 8 hay feasting off the field. We enjoy 9 our land we grow 750 acres of corn and 500 9 watching the new fawns and their mothers. 10 acres of hay. This year as well as otherw 10 We hear the coydogs and their pups yapping 11 we got five cuttings of hay. This is very 11 at night. At times we see flocks of 12 productive farm land. Last year September 12 pheasants and snowy owls rise along the skies 13 15th Hurricane Ike hit devastating our corn 13 by our field. The hawks spread their wings 14 crop. Our corn silage that was to carry us 14 and slowly soar overhead. They come in 15 through to next year, our corn was bent over 15 quick for a mouse or a bunny. Over all the 16 about knee high and switched around. By 16 season cycles we watch the wildlife grow. 17 three in the afternoon we went to start 17 Come fall, the monarch butterflies and 18 chopping. We would go two-hundred feet and 18 dragonflies disappear. The turkeys are 19 the the head would plug up. Back up. 19 strutting their stuff. The bucks are in 20 Unplug the corn stalks. Another two-hundred 20 demand again. The skies and fields are full 21 feet if we were lucky. We weren't making 21 of geese. We're part of their migration. 22 much progress. Day three we invested over 22 This is Mother Nature at her best. This is 23 $400,000 in a second chopper to save over 23 what I see when I'm out working in the 24 $300,000 of corn crop to feed our cows. I 24 fields. I'm blessed to work outside on this 25 learned to drive the old chopper in a couple 25 land and to live with Mother Nature. When
Page 66 Page 68 1 1 2 of hours. We were in survival mode. 2 we hay, our mower takes one 30-foot swath. 3 Modifications were made on the choppers. Two 3 Three rows equal 10 feet. My husband rakes 4 trucks could keep up with one chopper. 4 45 feet into one row. We follow behind with 5 That's how slow we were going. We worked 5 the chopper. Our trucks have flotation tires 6 all day long and into the night. Mother 6 to prevent compaction of the land. I 7 Nature wasn't on our side. Rain came, and 7 believe we have as individuals and farmers be 8 with that mold would grow on our corn, so 8 the best stewards of our beautiful land. We 9 time was critical. It was the most 9 work the land and hope to leave leave it a 10 challenging, stressful farm corn harvest I've 10 better place for the next generation. My 11 ever had. We finished chopping late Sunday 11 three year old granddaughther says "I help 12 September 28th. My grandmother, 99 years old, 12 daddy plant the corn. I help daddy combine 13 died that morning. My dad's mom, and we 13 the corn." She asks can she be a farmer 14 kept working because that's what farmers do. 14 like you. Daddy is a farmer. Papa is a 15 Our farm is more than cows, milk, and hay 15 farmer gentlemen and Joe's a farmer. 16 and corn. It's our home. We see the 16 The economic loss to our farm would 17 whitecaps on Lake Ontario. We watch the 17 be great and permanent for the life of our 18 storms roll in. We know spring is here when 18 farm. The environmental impact and permanent 19 the skies and our fields are full of 19 damage to our prime agricultural land would 20 thousands of Canadian Geese and white snow 20 be irreplaceable and will affect all of us 21 geese. Our farm land is part of their 21 for the rest of our lives, and will likely 22 migration path. We enjoy their stopping to 22 affect the next several generations. There 23 rest during the day or overnight stays. 23 are too many negative impacts and issues that 24 When our land is being tilled, skies are 24 need to be addressed before this project's 25 full of seagulls. When we plant corn, it 25 proposed route moves forward any further. It
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Page 69 Page 71 1 1 2 will devastate our farm land and the economic 2 will the project inpact the residents of the 3 impact will be felt for years to come. 3 other towns? How will the project pay for a 4 Implicit in the proposed route across farm 4 loss in revenue if it is deemed that the 5 land is a message that our lives, our 5 Galloo Island project ruins the view shed for 6 families, our health, our homes, our farms, 6 the Town of Henderson. Why couldn't you 7 our prime farm land, our businesses and our 7 build another substation in Watertown to 8 history and the tranquil natural beauty of 8 handle the line? Why can't they run the 9 our community is less important than that of 9 subaquatic line all the way to Mexico? Thank 10 others. I ask you to carefully consider the 10 you. 11 impact the proposed route will have here in 11 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. I 12 southern Jefferson County, and to remember 12 think I lost track of the questions, but the 13 that our farm land is what feeds our farm 13 answer to at least one of those questions 14 and all of us. You can't build any more 14 with regard to is there an opportunity to 15 land. You can't build any more prime 15 look at other alternatives whether they've 16 agriculatural land. You can build buildings, 16 been discussed today or not, and the answer 17 roads, bridges, transmission lines and more 17 is clearly yes. All of the parties in the 18 transmission lines. You can't build any more 18 case will have an opportunity at a schedule 19 prime agricultural land. Please make my 19 which we haven't set yet, but at some point 20 comments part of the record and give your 20 in the litigation schedule all of the parties 21 greatest consideration to ways to save our 21 will have an opportunity to propose 22 farm land from the impacts of a poorly 22 alternatives, and those alternatives will be 23 planned or poorly built power line. Our way 23 examined on the record. So, sort of the 24 of life, our health, our prime agricultural 24 long and short of the answer to your 25 farm land and the tranquil beauty of our 25 question is yes, there will be a number of
Page 70 Page 72 1 1 2 rural towns and community are at stake. 2 opportunities to look at other alternatives. 3 Thank you for your attention. 3 The next speaker I have is Christine 4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. The 4 Flitcroft. 5 next speaker I have is Nancy Lane-Moore. 5 MS. FLITCROFT: I don't want my back 6 MS. LANE-MOORE: I don't really have 6 to anybody. I don't want any cameras on. I 7 a statement. I just have some questions 7 have a severe anxiety disorder and used to 8 that I want formally answered. Are there 8 live on Route 3 at the corner of 1523 Stony 9 other options still available to be 9 Creek Road. There was a spill. We could 10 considered as to where this transmission line 10 not get the DEC or the state to do anything 11 will be located? Why was this route chosen? 11 about it. They were only concerned with 12 I realize that there is not any place local 12 digging dirt out and could not go across 13 to attach to the grid, but as the Galloo 13 Route 3 because the DEC could not get a 14 Island project is located in the Town of 14 permit from the state. So, there is still a 15 Hounsfield and they have the most to gain 15 spill down on Route 3. So, I don't have 16 why are the transmission lines coming ashore 16 much faith in the DEC or the state because 17 in Henderson? The JCIDA stated at a meeting 17 they would not check our water. They would 18 that this would be a boon for any town 18 not check our house, basement and soil around 19 involved in regards to the transmission lines 19 our house. Finally, we went to the doctor. 20 as they will be fully taxable. How much are 20 The doctor got the DEC to do a water test 21 the cost projections for the towns involved? 21 on our well, and it came with pages missing, 22 How is this calculated? Will the property 22 and finally the doctor told us to move out 23 values depreciate based on the transmission 23 of the that house and off that property. We 24 lines going through the properties involved? 24 then moved in 2002 out on to the Hovey Road, 25 If so, by how much of a percentage? How 25 which is a direct sight to Stony Island and
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Page 73 Page 75 1 1 2 Galloo Island. The proposed transmission 2 more photo maps that are within the last 3 statement or station that's coming up right 3 year, I would say. Whaley State Park is a 4 next to Little Marsh, which as far as I know 4 new state new park that is less than a mile 5 is wetland is less than half-a-mile from my 5 from where this transmission station where 6 home. I've never been notified. Apparently 6 it's going to come up from the lake. It 7 from talking to people here, the transmission 7 will ruin the view from there. There's 8 line routes have been changed so much that 8 walking trails all along to the lake and you 9 property owners were not notified, and which 9 will be able to see the wind mills, the 10 I don't really understand. We ourselves our 10 lights, because we can already see them now 11 power lines and telephone lines are buried 11 and the steam from where we live. And, as 12 underground from our road, which is a 12 far as people, property owners say no, 13 dead-end road. We moved there for the right 13 there's eminent domain, which anybody can say 14 to piece, quiet, environmentally friendly use 14 no, and the state, town, whatever can take 15 of our land, and there have been studies 15 your property whether you like it or not. 16 done where the transmission lines can cause 16 Same thing like when they're building roads 17 cancer and other health issues, and with a 17 out. They can take part of your front yard 18 severe anxiety disorder and post-traumatic 18 if they want to, and that's what's going to 19 stress disorder, I'm very afraid, very afraid 19 happen. People are going to say no, too 20 of what these power lines are going to do, 20 bad. We'll go eminent domain and some 21 because there's been studies both ways and 21 property owners with the transmission lines 22 nobody can get give a straight answer. Our 22 on their properties will be paid, but the 23 property values will depreciate, not only the 23 rest of us, what are we going to get. An 24 property owners that have it on their 24 eyesore. Possibly negative health impacts. 25 property. Of course, they're going to get 25 Negative environmental impacts. On our
Page 74 Page 76 1 1 2 paid, but the rest of us that have to look 2 property alone we have the geese both 3 at them or drive out along, say we want to 3 Canadian and White Geese, migratory birds and 4 sell our property. Our property value is 4 those Monarch butterflies gather on our 5 going to go down. We already can see the 5 property in the thousands. We have walking, 6 lights from Wolff Island from our home. So, 6 biking, hunting. All of that. We just all 7 I have a feeling that we probably wouldn't 7 in Henderson live here because we want to 8 have to have an outside light if there were 8 live in a natural environmentally safe area, 9 lights on Galloo Island the same way as the 9 and no one in town wanted wind power because 10 ones on Wolff Island. There is going to be 10 of the scenic area that it is. So, why 11 construction noise, drilling, and no time 11 should we allow wind power on an island that 12 frame has been given for that. There will 12 is basically in our town, although we do not 13 also be maintenance that will have to be 13 reap the benefits of any of this. We are 14 done which will also cause noise. The 14 just going to reap the benefits of eyesores, 15 height of the steel mono poles have not been 15 potential health problems. And, you know, 16 disclosed. It depends on the land. 16 it's like they can do all this, but they 17 On the pictures that were shown on 17 can't even get rid of a swallow worm. 18 the board you notice the transmission lines 18 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you, ma'am. 19 were lower than the trees. That doesn't 19 The next speaker I have is Garrett McCarthy. 20 make a whole lot of sense to any of us, 20 MR. MCCARTHY: Good afternoon. My 21 because you can see them. They're about 21 name is Garrett McCarthy. I just live up on 22 even with the trees. The photos that, the 22 the hill over here on Route 178. Everybody 23 maps on the back table they're at least 23 has been adding fine contributions to the 24 seven years outdated, plus my home isn't even 24 discussion here today. My thing was sort of 25 shown on the maps. So, they should get some 25 following just what the lady had spoken about
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Page 77 Page 79 1 1 2 just a moment ago is the potential health 2 if something breaks down, that's 400 gallons 3 risks to our water quality. You know, this 3 that spills into our soil, which we know is 4 is my third time asking this question in 4 only about a few feet of actual soil before 5 public forums here in this room since last 5 it hits bedrock, what do we do for a clean 6 year. I asked in the two previous meetings 6 up? What do we look for in a contingency 7 what has already been done by the proposed 7 plan? Does the power company have a plan 8 power developers that they have laid down 8 for when one of those things fails? That 9 transmission lines, what herbicides are they 9 brings it not just this line coming through 10 intending to use to keep down the vegetation 10 but the potential of our turbines being put 11 as these lines zig zag across through the 11 in, and that's why it's being proposed as 12 different townships all the way down on their 12 more than meeting the needs of Galloo. It's 13 proposed route. I have not seen the data 13 also for the future turbines they intend on 14 yet or the actual herbicide information as to 14 trying to propose for the north country. 15 what's being used, because last year it 15 So, if we were peppered with turbines and we 16 really became apparent from watching what the 16 are having to use more pesticides to keep 17 State Department of Transportation, New York 17 that down, that only adds to our water 18 Department of Transportation, what they're 18 quality concerns. We all know about wells 19 using on Route 81 pretty indiscriminately and 19 and we all know about water quality and how 20 when you're on it next summer when you drive 20 it effects our health relates to my question 21 up and down Route 81 and you see the brown 21 on what herbicides and what information on 22 scalded patches on every structure, every 22 keeping the vegetation down on existing 23 guardrail, every mile marker, and that's 23 transmission lines you already have in place. 24 bringing concern about what this project, 24 Thank you. 25 what herbicides can we expect that they're 25 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I can't give you
Page 78 Page 80 1 1 2 going to be using and supply the information 2 specific names of herbicides, but I can tell 3 because our water tower draws from the lake, 3 you that the use of herbicides is first of 4 so with each subsequent rain and as the 4 all usually very site specific, number one, 5 spring occurs and keeping the present 5 and number two, that is an issue that will 6 vegetation down from these proposed 6 be litigated in this case. Herbicides are 7 transmission lines, how does that end up in 7 always addressed in some great detail. So, 8 our water source, and what trace elements can 8 for what that's worth, it will be examined 9 we be looking for to be in our water tower, 9 in the case. I guarantee you. The next 10 our filtration system sufficient enough to 10 card I have is from Ron Murray. Mr. Murray. 11 keep that our. We think we're comfortable 11 No? Had to leave. Okay. The next card I 12 here with a municipal water system, but if 12 have is John Gaus. 13 it's drawing from the lake and these 13 MR. GAUS: My name is John Gaus. 14 transmission lines have the towers that are 14 My family owns farm land in the Town of 15 being sprayed, we don't know that information 15 Watertown, Town of Hounsfield and water-front 16 yet, and if these transmission lines are 16 property in the Town of Hounsfield and I am 17 being built not to just to accommodate the 17 opposed to this project and would like to 18 Galloo Island project but for future turbines 18 share some reasons with you why I am. 19 whether this town is able to keep it's eight 19 Before I do that, I would just like to talk 20 thousand foot setback in place, or if it's 20 about the process and express some amazement 21 weakened by other municipalities and other 21 at some of the the things I have heard this 22 towns that aren't going to touch their zoning 22 morning. I think it was counsel for the 23 and we end up with more turbines from here 23 developer who stood up in front of us and 24 to Mexico, those things have over 400 gallons 24 told us about these heroic efforts to notify 25 worth of lubrication oils and things. So, 25 all landowners about what was going on with
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Page 81 Page 83 1 1 2 respect to the project. I think I heard 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Do you have 3 most of the landowners stand up and say they 3 written records? 4 had no idea what was going on with the 4 MR. WARD: Yes, we do, but those 5 project. If that's the case, counsel for 5 are correspondence with individuals who 6 the developer ought to be ashamed of himself. 6 engaged in options and so forth. What 7 If he's admitted to the bar in New York 7 happened from that was we ran into groups 8 State and knowingly made a false statement in 8 who did not want lines. We ran into groups 9 front of these honorable judges, he should be 9 who did want the line and wanted the money. 10 immediately grieved to the New York State bar 10 Some people complained. They said "Why 11 ethics commission. 11 didn't you notify us?" So in the end, based 12 One request for information I would 12 on community input we did. so there may be 13 like to request from the developer is his 13 people in this group who were not notified. 14 mailing list and a detailed description of 14 As I said before, we notified a lot of 15 his efforts to notify the landowners in which 15 people in the community generally. We've 16 the transmission line is intended to be built 16 been in in room several times. I know I've 17 and when he mailed those out, please, and we 17 been in this room several times. So, we 18 can -- 18 have done our best to notify people and let 19 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Let me interrupt, 19 them know with respect to this line. Only 20 excuse me, sir. It seems to me that's a 20 if they were on the original route would 21 perfectly legitimate request. Mr. Ward? Is 21 they have been contacted. 22 Mr. Ward here. Would the Applicant agree to 22 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I appreciate that 23 provide that mailing list and the times of 23 explanation, but if I could ask you if you 24 the mailings? 24 have a list of the people to whom you have 25 MR. GAUS: Along with the airplane 25 communicated in writing, if you could provide
Page 82 Page 84 1 1 2 data. 2 that list. 3 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: One thing at a 3 MR. WARD: Yes, we do have that 4 time. 4 list. 5 MR. WARD: I've had several people 5 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. I think 6 come up to me already that triggered a lot 6 I finally got what you wanted. 7 of angst here. I want to be very clear 7 MR. GAUS: Thank you, Your Honor. I 8 when we originally proposed this line, when 8 would also be interested in knowing if any 9 we originally investigated the line going 9 of the landowners on whose property the 10 back two-and-a-half years we contacted, and 10 current line is planned have been notified. 11 this is from memory, has to be over three 11 Show of hands? Anybody? 12 hundred people were contacted along the 12 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Okay. Wait. Time 13 route, different routes, and I felt like we 13 out. 14 talked to everybody. 14 We have to keep a certain process 15 MR. GAUS: Then why don't you 15 here, and I have asked the Applicant to 16 provide us a copy. 16 provide some information with regard to 17 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Sir, excuse me. 17 written contacts made with certain people. 18 Let me just have a conversation with him 18 The floor is this gentleman's. If he wants 19 first. 19 to ask the audience how many people were 20 MR. WARD: We've had conversations 20 contacted, if I could just ask you all to 21 with a lot of people in person, and 21 raise your hands whoever was contacted. 22 obviously correspondence and so forth with 22 Okay, sir, I'll say for the record that I 23 literally hundreds of landowners along the 23 don't see any hands raised. Now, if you 24 broader swath when we were trying to put in 24 would get back to your comments. 25 a route. 25 MR. GAUS: Wind power seems like a
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Page 85 Page 87 1 1 2 good idea. I know in the renewable energy 2 questions about who exactly is Upstate, the 3 industry wind power seems lkike a good idea 3 developing company. Who are the people that 4 at first, but in many cases industrial wind 4 own it? Who are the officers and directors? 5 information has been an absolute failed 5 What are their addresses? What is their net 6 experiment. The only people making enough 6 worth? Do we have a copy of the prospective 7 money on it are the developers and the owner 7 and ask how much money they're intending to 8 operators. Wind is intermittent. Our power 8 make on these projects, because it's a large 9 lines are not. That means we only get power 9 sum of money. I'm going to talk about in a 10 from a wind farm when the wind blows. Our 10 minute the things we are going to do so 11 power requirements are 24 hours a day. If 11 these guys cannot laugh all the way to the 12 you look at the nameplate capacity of wind 12 bank as they leave town. The project is a 13 power projects and how much wind they 13 monstrosity. Galloo Island is a major 14 actually produce and you look at further the 14 stopover for migratory water fowl. One of 15 projections of how much power or wind 15 the biggest migratory fly lanes on the 16 development produces versus what it actually 16 planet. It's laughable to me that we're 17 produces, it's a damning condemnation on the 17 even talking about putting industrial 18 economics of wind power. The only reason 18 infrastructure on there. That plan would be 19 any wind power exists at all is for the 19 an absolute forgive the word rape of our 20 subsidy and that subsidy primarily lands in 20 landscape. I don't think our town board 21 the pockets of developers and owner operator 21 members or county legislators ought to take 22 utilities, and it's become an industry where 22 any part of that rape of our landscape and 23 these developers are stick-up men using 23 environment and make a big bag of money in 24 lawyers as their gun. They're here to make 24 the process and leave us with a mess 25 a lot of money. Make no mistake about it. 25 afterwards. This is not a case of nimby,
Page 86 Page 88 1 1 2 If you take a look into how much money they 2 not in my backyard. Northern New York has 3 really make, they intend to make hundreds of 3 already done it's fair share. We heard 4 millions of dollars. So the idea that you 4 about the Wolff Island lights. We have 5 would settle as a town or board of a town 5 already damaged the St. Lawrence River 6 or a county for a pittance in the form of a 6 rendering extinct the Atlantic Salmon. We 7 PILOT payment is absolutely laughable. That 7 have damaged every small river in in upstate 8 law firm will make more money in the next 18 8 New York with running mills or putting power. 9 months than the Town of Hounsfield will make 9 It's not a case of nimby. We have done our 10 in the next eight years as a PILOT payment 10 fair share, and most of the people here are 11 that they just agreed to. These guys are 11 living in the shadow of a nuclear site. So, 12 here eco-terrorists to get a big bag of 12 there are absolutely better alternatives than 13 money and take it home, and I don't think we 13 wind that cost less money in the way of 14 should let it happen. Our tax base could be 14 development and being there's a facility in 15 absolutely eroded in the form of decreased 15 Lyonsdale the size of that facility could be 16 land values for our farms and water-front 16 tripled. If a coal fired plant at Fort Drum 17 properties all at the expense of getting 17 that size could be expanded and could become 18 rich. These guys are rich guys. These are 18 a coal-fired facility and we would not need 19 guys that own homes on Nantucket and Martha's 19 to spend a grotesque amount of dollars on 20 Vineyard. They're not arguing a wind power 20 projects that are upside down economically 21 project in their backyard because they've 21 and leave us with an environmental disaster. 22 already killed every single proposal. Let it 22 a far lesser amount of money we could spend 23 kill them here as well, and there's lots of 23 and get a much better result with less 24 reasons why I think it's fair for our town 24 environmental impact. If you are on a town 25 boards and our county legislatures to ask 25 board or county legislator, I would urge you
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Page 89 Page 91 1 1 2 to take the time and learn about the 2 fair we ask for the list of the projects, 3 millions and millions of dollars being made 3 the names of those projects, the reports of 4 by wealthy wind farm project developers and 4 the actual outputs of those projects since 5 owner operators to at least get a sense of 5 they've been built, records pertaining to the 6 what you're giving up in PILOT negotiations 6 transfer of those projects from the developer 7 in terms of economics, because the same guy 7 to the current owner operator and the price 8 that got up here and probably lied to us 8 at which those projects were transferred and 9 about the efforts he went to to notify all 9 the magnitude of dollars involved. It's also 10 you landowners, he is probably going to get 10 fair I think to ask the PSC those in New 11 a bonus for having duped most of our town 11 York State what they produce, what they say 12 boards and town legislators into a 12 they will produce, where the backup power 13 ridiculously low PILOT payment. So, I urge 13 comes from. I can tell you right now it 14 you local officials not be an accompliace to 14 comes from fossil fuel. There's some people 15 eco-piratry. If you are in favor of a wind 15 making arguments that false reliance on large 16 power project locally, and I could certainly 16 scale wind projects has actually increased 17 understand why people would do it, why you 17 our reliance on fossil fuels because they 18 would just cram it past your neighbors and 18 couldn't operate to their capacity. I think 19 stuff their pockets, I don't know. If we 19 it's fair we ask the PSC with respect to 20 really wanted a wind power project, we could 20 those past projects for a list of all the 21 certainly form a group of intelligent people 21 temporary use permits that were issued so if 22 in our community to develop our own wind 22 you're a land owner you need to know about 23 power project. We don't need to line the 23 these temporary land use permits and ask the 24 pockets of those guys. No way. If you're 24 PSC for a list of those instances where 25 a landowner, say no. I would love to be at 25 that's happened. That's all I have. Thank
Page 90 Page 92 1 1 2 the public forum where you landowners are 2 you. 3 getting eminent domain crammed down your 3 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you for 4 throat by a bunch of communists. I would 4 those comments. I would just point out that 5 love the town to say no. If you're a 5 temporary use permits are local government 6 landowner say no, say no, say no to this 6 documents. That's nothing that we do. The 7 stuff on your property. 7 next speaker is Ginger Cook. 8 I just got a couple questions in the 8 MS. COOK: Yes, my name is Ginger 9 form of requests for information, if I would 9 Cook, and I'm a home owner here as well as 10 be able to. I think that our community 10 being vice president of the 11 ought to be entitled to a list of the power 11 Belleville-Henderson school board, and I've 12 projects in New York State, what their 12 lived here for over 35 years. My family has 13 nameplate capacity is, the name of the 13 lived here for over 35 years, and our whole 14 developer of that project, a report of the 14 family has a combination of over 400 acres 15 actual outputs in those projects, and I 15 here in the Henderson area. First of all, 16 believe that our New York State PSC is very 16 the map has changed several times. We were 17 familiar with the fact that most projects are 17 not given notice of the proposed transmission 18 producing well below their planned capacities, 18 line. We thought it was 500 feet behind our 19 which is a damning indictment against the 19 house, but looking now at the maps it's 20 economics of wind power. It's a fact most 20 actually 400 feet behind our house. My 21 projects do not produce what they say they're 21 husband has to work today, so he couldn't be 22 going to produce. If you're a town or a 22 here. We've been to several other meetings 23 county and your PILOT payment is based on 23 here and we were not allowed to speak. You 24 the actual production, you're being duped. 24 had to write down a question on a card, and 25 You're absolutely being duped. I think it's 25 if they felt the question was acceptable then
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Page 93 Page 95 1 1 2 they would ask the question. This is the 2 were to go through the Town of Hounsfield, 3 first public fourm that I have been to where 3 there would be a public outcry. They would 4 you're actually allowed to speak and speak 4 not want these lines running through their 5 your opinion. So, I wanted you to be aware 5 beautiful quaint little village. Let's be 6 of that. 6 honest about that. My son has been an 7 I feel that Upstate Power Corporation 7 electrical apprentice working for the 8 was not adequately prepared today. At one 8 electrical union. I have friends in the 9 point, the gentleman said "Oh, I don't have 9 electrical union that have worked on, under 10 a map of that." He was here to give us a 10 and over these mono poles. My son's 11 presentation, and now is the time to have 11 childhood home is now in jeopardy. If these 12 all your ducks in a row, the maps and what 12 poles are erected, he will now be able to 13 not. I thought that was unacceptable. I 13 walk out back of our house and hold a 14 think it's unacceptable with the amount of 14 flourescent bulb in his hand and have it 15 money that they're going to make that they 15 light up magically. Isn't that wonderful to 16 cannot send out notices to the people on 16 think that of your childhood home and have 17 this new proposed route. It's absolutely 17 this go on. I hope people are aware of 18 ludicrous. Another thing, the mono poles, 18 that. This whole process has been done very 19 the pictures were unclear. What do they 19 sneakily. We are a small caring 20 really look like? From that picture, you 20 compassionate community. We are not a bunch 21 could not tell what they actually will look 21 of country bumpkins that are going to be 22 like. I feel that Upstate Power is basing 22 bulldozed over. We are going to ban 23 all of the proposals on profit, money and 23 together, the Bellville-Henderson community, 24 it's basically greed. The subaquatic cable 24 and we're going to do what it takes to stop 25 underwater would cost a lot more money, we're 25 this. And to not be informed, not be
Page 94 Page 96 1 1 2 are aware of that, but he was talking about 2 notified, this is just an absolute atrocity, 3 where the placement of this windmill farm on 3 and I hope everyone will look at the picture 4 Galloo Island was the best visual, the best 4 on the wall here, the print of Samuel D. 5 acceptable place for it. Well, what about 5 Champlain. A lot of you probably don't know 6 the visual and the acceptable place for the 6 who he is, but we have great history in this 7 transmission lines. So, I feel that they 7 area. This print was originally in the the 8 should take a better look at that. I have 8 Henderson library here at the school where I 9 friends and family that live in Hounsfield. 9 graduated from. When the two schools merged, 10 It's not an easy thing, but they're ecstatic. 10 this print was taken to the 11 They're going to get most of the reward. 11 Belleville-Henderson now one school over in 12 The Sacket's Harbor school district will 12 Belleville and it was placed in the 13 greatly benefit from this. Our children here 13 auditorium. Well the forefather's here and 14 at the Belleville-Henderson school district 14 so on decided we think this needs to be put 15 will not benefit from this. Their parents, 15 back here in the Henderson community, so it 16 their grandparents, their families all are 16 was loaded on a truck with great care a lot 17 going to have adverse effects of these power 17 of people giving their time and energy and 18 transmission lines running through their 18 it was brought back here and placed in this 19 property, and like the earlier speakers we 19 beautiful case. 20 have a beautiful, beautiful shoreline here. 20 Now, these transmission lines when 21 We have beautiful farm land here that is 21 you go up 178 will be not far from where 22 absolutely irreplaceable. If you need to 22 Samuel D. Champlain came here and landed, and 23 upgrade the Watertown substation, upgrade it. 23 with this historical value we just have to 24 Build a new one. It doesn't take a rocket 24 think of these things also. I'm just 25 scientist to figure that out. If these lines 25 wondering if the power company did any
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Page 97 Page 99 1 1 2 research on the historical value of the 2 use you as an example just to give Dan a 3 property around here. First and foremost, 3 little backup, a dairy farm with 800 cows 4 just please consider all these comments, 4 has a total economic impact, when you look 5 because we are very caring people and we 5 at all the multipliers, of over eleven 6 live in a small community and we all love it 6 million dollars a year. So, when you impact 7 here or we would not be here. A lot of 7 the dairy farms in Jefferson County, it has 8 people will consider moving if this comes 8 a huge impact on our economy. A 100 cow 9 through, and it will be impossible to replace 9 dairy pays over $4,000 in taxes. 10 this place that we all live and call home. 10 Agricultural business in many of these rural 11 So, please take all of our comments into 11 towns are the largest employer, tax payer, 12 consideration. Thank you for your time. 12 utility payer, and large part of the fabric 13 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you, and, 13 of these communities, outside of government 14 yes, ma'am, we will take all of your 14 and school districts. It is imperative that 15 comments into consideration. I can promise 15 any proposal that disrupts our agricultural 16 you that. The next speaker I have is Jay 16 businesses take into account how important 17 Matteson. 17 agriculture is to our local economies. A 18 MR. MATTESON: Thank you. I'm Jay 18 proposal to build a transmission line does 19 Matteson, Chief Executive Officer for the 19 not just take a small footprint of land for 20 Jefferson County Agricultural Development 20 a few poles, it permanently disrupts a local 21 Corporation. The Jefferson County 21 economy through the building, maintenance and 22 Agricultural Development Corporation has been 22 displacement for the transmission line. 2. 23 aware of the proposed transmission line to 23 When a power line is sited on agricultural 24 deliver electricity from the proposed Galloo 24 land, it has a tremendous impact to the 25 Island Wind Farm through Jefferson County 25 farming operation. Dan and Sharon did a
Page 98 Page 100 1 1 2 into Oswego County where the new transmission 2 much better job in describing the impact on 3 line will interconnect with an existing 3 the land. We've been promised the 4 transmission line, since the project was 4 construction operation will take every measure 5 first proposed. We worked with Upstate NY 5 to minimize that impact. But once you begin 6 Power Corporation, the NYS Department of 6 to displace the topsoil, it takes years for 7 Agriculture and Markets and the residents of 7 the topsoil to become as valuable as it once 8 Jefferson County to help convey information 8 was. In addition, when promises are not 9 in an open and transparent manner so that 9 kept as well as they should be, as is 10 Jefferson County residents could make well 10 evidenced in many of these projects, the 11 informed decisions regarding the sale of 11 burden falls on the landowners shoulders to 12 property easements for the placement of the 12 encourage the companies involved to fix the 13 transmission line. 13 problems they leave behind. This time and 14 Today, we bring to the attention of 14 burden has significant value to these 15 the NYS Public Service Commission several 15 business owners. It is lost revenue from 16 concerns regarding the placement of this 16 less yielding soils and the value of time 17 transmission line. 1. Jefferson County's 17 not spent on the business because the owner 18 agricultural industry is a $500 million 18 is chasing companies not interested in coming 19 dollar industry that directly employs over 19 back once they've moved their equipment. In 20 1000 people. Our dairy farms for example 20 addition, the footprint of the towers causes 21 provide jobs that pay, on average, over $13 21 a permanent disruption in cropping patterns, 22 per hour plus benefits. The dairy farms in 22 that, while compensated for in a one-time 23 this county pay an average of over $40 per 23 payment to the current landowner, cause a 24 cow in taxes every year to municipalities and 24 permanent loss to future generations of 25 schools. And, Dan and Sharon, if I could 25 landowners and our economy as a whole. In
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Page 101 Page 103 1 1 2 addition, the land is no longer available for 2 our local economies and the fabric of our 3 development of agricultural buildings and 3 rural communities. Projects that change the 4 structures, limiting the potential for 4 way we do business, in a negative manner, 5 economic development in the community. 3. 5 should be critically evaluated as to their 6 The Jefferson County Agricultural Development 6 impact on jobs, the local tax base, and the 7 Corporation calls upon the State of New York 7 impact on our economy. When state land is 8 to evaluate why a project, such as this 8 available that is not any more valuable 9 proposed transmission line, when it is 9 environmentally than neighboring private land, 10 suggested to benefit the public as a whole, 10 these transmission facilities projects should 11 is not sited on public lands. These public 11 be sited on the available public land. The 12 lands are paid for by the taxpayer to 12 burden should be on New York State and the 13 benefit everyone in New York Sate. Why 13 company proposed the project to prove to the 14 then, when the power generated from this 14 local landowners why their land is any less 15 proposed wind farm, will have little benefit 15 environmentally important than the public 16 to Jefferson County residents, and will 16 lands nearby. In no case should eminent 17 disrupt our agricultural businesses and 17 domain be used to take land away from 18 private landowners, is the burden placed on 18 agricultural businesses that provide jobs and 19 us and not upon all the taxpayers in the 19 stimulate our local economy. On behalf of 20 State? Much of this proposed line could be 20 the Board of Directors of the Jefferson 21 placed on New York State land, lessening the 21 County Agricultural Development Corporation, we 22 burden on the local community. Environmental 22 encourage the NYS Public Service Commission 23 impacts can be mitigated, and the New York 23 to strongly consider agriculture when making 24 State Department of Environmental Conservation, 24 decisions regarding this project. Thank you. 25 in exercising its authority to regulate the 25 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: The next speaker I
Page 102 Page 104 1 1 2 environment of our State, will work to 2 have is David, and I apologize, but I cannot 3 oversee environmental impacts on the private 3 read this writing. 4 lands this line is proposed for, as much as 4 MR. STAIE: Staie. I just want to 5 it would if the line were placed on private 5 say I'm opposed to the site of the 6 land. 4. In the event that a landowner is 6 transmission line. I was on the original 7 firmly against the sale of an easement for 7 notification two-years ago, and I didn't 8 placing the transmission line, the Jefferson 8 receive anything. The transmission line is 9 County Agricultural Development Corporation is 9 going directly over top of an active 10 firmly opposed to the use of eminent domain 10 limestone quarry. We blast two to three 11 to take private property from a citizen of 11 times a year, and it also crosses within 300 12 Jefferson County to build a transmission line 12 feet of an office for our main office. So, 13 or wind power project. These projects, as 13 I just wanted to say that I'm opposed to the 14 they are proposed, will have minimal value to 14 transmission line. 15 the residents of Jefferson County. No one 15 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. And the 16 person or persons should lose their rights to 16 last card that I have is Robert Ashodian. 17 their land for the purpose of siting an 17 MR. ASHODIAN: Thank you for giving 18 electric transmission facility or wind farm 18 me the opportunity to speak again. I spoke 19 project. 19 earlier as a member of the Henderson Harbor 20 Agriculture, because we own large 20 Area Chamber of Commerce. I would like now 21 expanses of open land, unfortunately bears 21 to speak as just a plain old community 22 the burden of proposed projects such as this 22 member. I have a home down there in 23 transmission line all too often. It is 23 Henderson Bay, and I just want to state my 24 important for New York State to recognize 24 personal comments. Personally, I am 25 that agriculture is citically important to 25 concerned about turning the entire eastern
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Page 105 Page 107 1 1 2 end of Lake Ontario into a giant wind farm. 2 and I can tell you what went on. Working 3 Here's a map of Lake Ontario. The most 3 silently, agents of these companies arrived. 4 prestigious portion is the northeastern end. 4 They talked quietly with members of our 5 Henderson Harbor is here. From Henderson 5 community. They got land leases put into 6 Harbor, we can see the wind towers way 6 effect for the electric lines. They got 7 across at Wolff Island. Wolff Island is 7 options on local land for the construction of 8 over in Canada that's 25 miles away straight 8 towers. Upstate NY Power Company scattered 9 line. Galloo Island is right here. It is 9 seed money, scatter money, pocket change to 10 six miles from Stony Point shore. It will 10 them, in the range of $47,000 on one piece 11 be visible from Cape Vincent, from 11 of property, down to $11,000 on another piece 12 Brownville, from Lyme, from Henderson, from 12 of property. It was odd that all the 13 Ellisburg. It's an abomination on this end 13 easements were recorded in the summer of 2008 14 of the lake. I sailed these waters for 30 14 before the final determination of where the 15 years. I know many people who sail these 15 power line was even going to go. They were 16 waters. The evening sky is aglow with the 16 not contiguous pieces of property designed 17 lights that we see all the way over here at 17 with making the line go through some area 18 Wolff Island. What will we see in the night 18 where contiguous neighbors agreed. They were 19 skies from the Town of Henderson. 19 contracts that were exercised, scattered 20 For the first time in my life I am 20 around. Were they secret? The kinds of 21 afraid of my federal government. I am 21 transactions that individuals want to make 22 afraid of my state government, and I am at 22 with people who want to buy their property, 23 the point where I'm afraid of my county 23 that is a democratic United States right. 24 government. I am afraid of some of the 24 You can't deny people the ability to do as 25 agencies that are in force to implement the 25 they would like to do with their lands.
Page 106 Page 108 1 1 2 plans that are made far away in Washington, 2 However, it's odd that all the easements are 3 to implement the plans that are made far 3 recorded at the same time within a few weeks 4 away in New York State, and through a very 4 of each other. I think I know the reason 5 recent experience I am personally afraid of 5 why. They don't want you to know what's 6 the Jefferson County Industrial Development 6 going on because easements are a matter of 7 Agency. They have an agenda. They are 7 public record. I went to the County Clerk's 8 forcing that agenda on us. They are 8 office in Watertown. I keyed in Upstate NY 9 following a mantra that says wind is good. 9 Power Company. I got 10 easements popped up 10 Wind is free. They are following a mantra 10 on the screen. Those easements were recorded 11 that doesn't care anything about the quality 11 and visible in the Jefferson County Clerk's 12 of life of the people where those towers are 12 office. The easements ran 18 pages, 19 13 being built, that doesn't care anything about 13 pages long. If an individual wishes to sell 14 the extraction of our tax dollars that will 14 off his property, or give an easement for a 15 go to big developers represented by big law 15 hundred years, that's his right. That's his 16 firms and represented by people whose only 16 ability. He can do that. But, there's 17 purpose is to extract subsidies and 17 something very, very strange when these 18 government money for others at the expense of 18 contracts are negotiated and some people 19 the people in the local communities. This 19 don't seem to have any notification that the 20 is a process being driven by billions of 20 proposed power line is going through their 21 dollars of subsidies. We have had some 21 farm land, through their recreational 22 discussions here about who knew. Who was 22 property, through their heritage. But, the 23 informed. Who got letters. I've watched 23 people who were approached they knew who 24 this process here in this community. I'm 24 approached them. They were approached 25 involved in lots of things in this community, 25 individually by agents of this power company.
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Page 109 Page 111 1 1 2 They made the contracts. Now, I suspect, I 2 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: You told me that 3 don't know, but all the deeds are registered 3 the terms and conditions, you've just stated 4 within a few weeks of each other. That's so 4 the terms and conditions of these deals are 5 that nobody can look until it's done. That 5 private deals except as required to be filed 6 doesn't sound very nice to me. The 6 in the County Clerk's office. 7 financial terms are unknown. However, the 7 MR. ASHODIAN: Correct. 8 County Clerk's records show very clearly what 8 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Now, they were 9 the consideration was, how much money was 9 filed in the County Clerk's office. Those 10 made available for the purpose of these 10 are private deals and this is a normal way 11 people who wanted to do this to their land 11 of doing things for any number of different 12 and divide it up with a boilet plate that 12 things, not just power lines, land options. 13 the power company put in them. Those total 13 I mean, I am not following the point you're 14 amounts are known. It was $47,000 for one 14 trying to make, because you've said all these 15 prime piece of farm land down here on Stony 15 things are perfectly appropriate. 16 Point. Then you ask at the County Clerk's 16 MR. ASHODIAN: It strikes me, and 17 office "Well, what about the financial 17 maybe I'm wrong, maybe my sense of these 18 agreement? How did that work?" That is not 18 things is a little bit too strict, but we 19 a matter of public record. That's fine. 19 are hearing that the power company notified 20 That's a private financial transaction between 20 people that the power line was coming 21 one person and/or another, but a couple 21 through, and everybody in back of me stands 22 people I talked to them, I asked them what 22 up and says they weren't notified. Now, 23 did you get? They said "I got 20 percent 23 some people were notified and deals were 24 down and I get 80 percent if the deals goes 24 made. They were lined up without even a 25 through." That's the way the power company 25 final agreement being reached. This strikes
Page 110 Page 112 1 1 2 negotiated some of those easements. So the 2 me as a company that is stirring up quietly 3 financial dollars were known. The exact 3 and secretly interest in the project 4 terms were not known. Whether they all got 4 unbeknownst to everybody else. 5 20% with a promise for the other 80%, that I 5 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Don't they have a 6 don't know. I talked to several individuals. 6 right to talk to individuals? 7 They said they already got their 20%. When 7 MR. ASHODIAN: They have a right to 8 I searched for the power company, I mean for 8 do that, okay? I'm not questioning their 9 the power company, I got 10 people. Ten 9 right. I'm questioning what has happened in 10 people involved. These weren't easements. 10 this community where we start seeing we have 11 These were what they called options. The 11 some public officials who have negotiated 12 options are not described in detail. The 12 these kind of contracts. We feel it raises 13 financial arrangements for those are not 13 questions about a conflict of interest. 14 quite so readily available. You don't see 14 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I'm afraid I have 15 exactly what's going on like you do with the 15 no authority over any public official. As a 16 easements. 16 matter of fact, people in this room have a 17 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Sir, I apologize, 17 lot more authority over who gets elected up 18 but you're losing me, and I don't understand 18 here than we do. 19 what you're trying to tell me. You've told 19 MR. ASHODIAN: I agree. It just 20 me that you could do whatever you want with 20 strikes me that this whole process doesn't 21 your land. 21 seem right. It seems unseemly. We feel put 22 MR. ASHODIAN: Right. 22 upon by these outside agencies. They descend 23 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Whether it's public 23 on small unsophisticated towns like we are. 24 or private. 24 They work quietly, and then suddenly we find 25 MR. ASHODIAN: No. 25 out oh, there's a transmission line. This
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Page 113 Page 115 1 1 2 doesn't strike me as a good American 2 wind power. That scares me, sir. Thank you 3 democratic way of doing business when we are 3 very much. 4 dealing with agencies of our own government. 4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: And, I lied to you 5 That is my point. I'm sorry 5 about that being the last card. There is 6 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: I do understand, 6 one more, Martin Clark. Mr. Clark. 7 and there will be many opportunities before 7 MR. CLARK: Good afternoon, Judges. 8 this process is done, and it will all be 8 I don't want to take up much of your time. 9 done in public. 9 I know it's been a long day. My name is 10 MR. ASHODIAN: Thank you very much. 10 Martin Clark. I life at 12305 County Route 11 I think that's what I'm looking for, and the 11 123 with my family and it's also known as 12 scary part is that we have talked to other 12 the Thomas Dobson house, which is one of the 13 people in other communities. The same kind 13 oldest residences in the Town of Henderson. 14 of process goes on. We are dealing in this 14 I have had no information as of this 15 community with very sophisticated national 15 minute right now by anybody who contacted me 16 organizations, and we feel disadvantaged. 16 about the proposed transmission line crossing 17 So, this is the best hearing that I have 17 a portion of my property. The property is 18 ever attended, and one of the areas that I 18 used as farm land, actively used, and I do 19 wanted to mention specifically and the reason 19 not want the transmission line on my property 20 I point it out the Jefferson County 20 at all. I don't really want it in the Town 21 Industrial Development Agency is there was a 21 of Henderson, because I see no benefit to 22 hearing conducted up there. I know it's not 22 what's already been said by these people. 23 part of your hearing, but I want to share it 23 It's the Town of Hounsfield's project. To 24 which it's a very, very carefully controlled 24 me, that they can run it down through the 25 legally required hearing. Five minutes. You 25 lake, run it back over to the Town of
Page 114 Page 116 1 1 2 couldn't share your time. 2 Hounsfield and tie in wherever they need be. 3 They read off a set of rules of 3 There's a couple main corridors running north 4 what you could do and what you couldn't do. 4 and south known as Route 81 and also the CSX 5 Nobody would answer any questions. You 5 Railroad system. I'm not trying to push 6 couldn't talk to anybody in the audience. 6 this out to some place else. I don't think 7 As soon as there was hesitation, no more 7 that anybody's doing that. I don't think 8 questions? The hearing is over. No 8 we're going to get a benefit out of this but 9 information was provided. A handful of 9 an eyesore. I can only say I think you 10 people show up at the meeting and they made 10 people need to look at the line being 11 their comments. It was a ritual. It was a 11 proposed is four times the size needed. To 12 ritual that we see going on to push this 12 me, it only opens up as it's going down 13 thing through by various levels of our 13 along the eastern shore of Lake Ontario that 14 government. That is my worry. That is my 14 more wind farms are going to be coming. 15 concern. 15 They're up on top of Tug Hill. They're 16 So, in conclusion, a lot of things 16 already along the shore here, and another 17 people have said here about the government 17 thing will be when the wind mills don't 18 taking their land, about the possibility of 18 turn, you want to walk over to the light 19 the right of eminent domain, I am afraid, I 19 switch and turn it on. You won't with 20 am truly afraid, because I see what I worked 20 these. Those plants out in the midwest that 21 so hard for, what I have built in this 21 are providing a lot of power to be used by 22 community for myself is at risk because the 22 the public don't turn down. They're running 23 federal, state, the county and agencies like 23 a hundred percent all the time because you 24 the Jefferson County Industrial Development 24 want that power there when you need it. The 25 Agency have a plan. They want our land for 25 wind doesn't run all the time, even around
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Page 117 Page 119 1 1 2 here where it's quite gusty, but it will not 2 Applicant to stand up. Okay, that will give 3 fulfill what we're doing here. Green is one 3 you an idea. We will be adjourned until 4 thing. The federal government is pushing 4 two-o'clock. 5 subsidies to these companies. As Bob had 5 (Whereupon, the PUBLIC HEARING 6 mentioned, they're coming down through the 6 concluded at 1:45 p.m.) 7 state. The state is looking back at the 7 8 information provided them and it goes back to 8 9 the transportation fund. The federal 9 10 government said you had to change the miles 10 11 per hour that you could go on the roads. If 11 12 you didn't play by their rules, "We're not 12 13 going to give you any funding." This state 13 14 is strapped for money at this point in time, 14 15 not just because of their own misconduct but 15 16 just because of the way the world is. 16 17 People have misused public trust. 17 18 That's basically all I have to say. 18 19 I just go along with what other people have 19 20 said here today. I want you to look hard 20 21 at it. I don't want it on my property. 21 22 If it's going to come on my property, then 22 23 they're going to have to go eminent domain 23 24 or I'll resist them any way I can. I think 24 25 these communities need to ban together. 25
Page 118 Page 120 1 1 2 That's the only way we can stop this type of 2 CERTIFICATE 3 situation. Thank you. 3 4 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Ladies and 4 I, Terry Clark, a Court Reporter and 5 gentlemen, that concludes the cards that I 5 Notary Public in the State of New York, do 6 have, and we have been going for some period 6 hereby certify that the foregoing record 7 of time. I put that on the record for the 7 taken by me at the time and place as noted 8 benefit of the stenographer. If I had his 8 in the heading hereof, is a true and 9 fingers, they would be falling off. At this 9 accurate transcript of same, to the best of 10 point, we are going to have a pre-hearing 10 my knowledge and belief. 11 conference of the parties, but I want to 11 12 allow at least a little bit of time for you 12 13 to ask questions either of the applicant or 13 14 the staff in the back of the room. So, I'd 14 Terry Clark 15 like to adjourn until two o'clock, at which 15 Dated: December 10, 2009. 16 point we will have the formal pre-hearing 16 17 conference. Before we go off the record 17 18 yes, ma'am. 18 19 UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I have a 19 20 question. How do we identify who these 20 21 people are? 21 22 JUDGE STOCKHOLM: Thank you. That's 22 23 a good question. Staff, stand up and waive 23 24 your arms. Those folks are from the 24 25 Department of Public Service. Can I ask the 25
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