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Rethinking Education in Ireland: 125 State and Church in Irish Education

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Rethinking Education in Ireland: 125 State and Church in Irish Education RETHINKING EDUCATION IN IRELAND Interview conducted by Mr. Martin Beuster with Archbishop of Dublin, Dr. Diarmuid Martin MB: Archbishop, what is your vision for a Catholic education for the coming generations of this country? DM: Catholic education has a long tradition. Catholic are present in almost every part of the world, in the different cultures in different ways. What is important is that Catholic education as we go forward in a changing Ireland adapts to the changes but manages to retain the richness of its tradition. MB: It is certainly true that we are seeing fundamental changes in Irish society at the moment. Would you think that in the past we have seen Catholic education in Ireland? DM: There is the parents’ wish to have the right, as is in the Irish Constitution, to decide on the type of education their children receive. Now, Catholic education has varied. There are Catholic schools, there are forms of Catholic education which even people who are not Catholics would like their children to attend because of the quality of the education. As regards the Catholic school system, there are two particular temptations it has to avoid. One is elitism and the other is that Catholic schools, because they are the local community schools, are not left carrying an excessive burden by people who sometimes, speaking about diversity, opt out of diversity and opt to go to schools which are, in fact, elitist. That is a danger at the present time. MB: You mention diversity as an important aspect of education in today’s Ireland. Diversity comes alive in an environment of tolerance where people speak and act with honesty and conviction. So how do you suggest authentic denominational education can be fostered? DM: There is a tendency for someone to say that there is diversity, that everyone has come together. In fact, that is not necessarily the way. Diversity implies that you respect the different traditions that are there, but that people are educated into their tradition in a way in which they can interact responsibly with others. I am convinced, and you can see this worldwide, that if people are educated with confidence in their own tradition, they will be well able to enter into a society that is diverse, bringing their own values with conviction. If you look at the areas, for example, where fundamentalism and religious tensions emerge, they arise normally where people are insecure in their religious identity or where the quality of their religious education is deficient. We have to ensure that the quality of Rethinking Education in Ireland: 125 State and Church in Irish Education RETHINKING EDUCATION IN IRELAND Dr. Diarmuid Martin religious education or that the quality of education in religiously run schools is of the highest level and that people go out with the confidence in themselves and their religious convictions which allows them to be strong participants in society. MB: In that context do you think that the patronage model as we have seen it in the past has served religious education well? DM: The current situation whereby, for example, I am patron of over 80% of the Primary schools in the Dublin Diocese is, in many ways, out of date. It does not respond to the needs, and I have been saying this for some time. The Minister for Education has set up a forum to look at the question of patronage and this is moving forward. Now, what is interesting is that it should not move forward on an ideological basis. It should move forward on a sure, empirical basis of trying to find out what do parents really want, what type of education parents want, and it will be a system of diverse patronage. Already, in the Dublin area, particularly in the newly built areas, that diversity is emerging through the building of new schools and the way these new schools are allocated. However, there is still a very strong demand from parents to have a religious base or an education that has a strong religious dimension to it. By that I do not mean simply that it is the study of comparative religion or sociology of religion or the history of religion. I think that they do want their children to come out with a mature sense of responsibility which springs from the actual practice of religion. MB: Educating young children to develop their own moral compass is, perhaps, the biggest challenge we all face and this is where faith-based education comes into its own. You spoke of the danger of being elitist and we have seen this in other countries where Catholic education has become something of an option for the wealthy. Do you see that danger manifesting in Ireland in the future and how can we address it? DM: I have always been aware of the possibility of elitism to which you refer and which I introduced into the conversation. Then there is the other side. If you go to the inner city sites of the United States the education for the poorest and the opportunities for the poorest have been given by the Catholic school system. If you look at Chicago and New York, they have an extraordinary record of offering education and educational opportunity for people who are marginalised and the Catholic school system on the whole fostered that in Ireland over the generations in ways that were appropriate for the time. We now have to see how we go about that for the future. MB: Where do you see enrolment policies playing a part in that? DM: I believe that first of all we have to see that there are viable alternatives to the current Catholic system in place. That will enable enrolment policies to become more reasonable and people will be freely able to opt for a particular type or stream of school. In the intervening period there will, obviously, be difficulties of application and I think that the policy that is being developed by the Forum on Rethinking Education in Ireland: 126 State and Church in Irish Education RETHINKING EDUCATION IN IRELAND Dr. Diarmuid Martin Patronage is showing the way forward on that. I believe that this cannot be achieved overnight. We have to find a way to do that over a particular period of time. For me the optimum time within which to achieve that would probably be the duration of a child’s attendance at Primary school, i.e. from the time they enter until the time they leave. Over that period schools would develop their on-going policy so that those children who are in the schools would finish their education but the new children would be entering in the knowledge that this particular school would be going in a particular direction. It would also facilitate teachers who would have a particular option over a period of time and in a managed way to decide which type of school they would prefer to teach in. That is a way which would bring people together. There are difficulties in areas where there may be only one school. The Forum itself sees that difficulty and it is still to be addressed. MB: So, who do you think the key players are in bringing about these changes? DM: In today’s Ireland we have extraordinary opportunities to move forward in a way that we have not done in the past to improve the quality of education across the board and to ensure that the school becomes very much embedded in the community of parents, in particular, teachers and other elements of the community. I believe that, particularly in our Primary schools, the system of a local Boards of Management taking responsibility means that there is a greater involvement of parents and the community in the school and that has great advantages over one which is run in a centralised way. Education by its nature has to respond to the particular local circumstances. I would say the same thing is important in looking at cutbacks in education. If you simply have a generalised cutback across the board then some people are going to be more disadvantaged than others, so the involvement of the community and the Department of Education and the educational establishment in the good sense, the universities, the teacher training establishments, and the Churches with their traditions will make for better outcomes. MB: Would you be convinced that the sacramental life is best placed in the school, going forward? DM: I don’t think it’s best placed in the school or in the parish or somewhere else. I think it is a matter of bringing together all those who are key players in this and the school plays an important part. If you look at the sacramental preparation; it is an important part of school life and would be celebrated in school life itself. There is a certain sense in which the school wishes to be part of the broad community to which the children belong and to those special moments in the life of the children. However, I do believe, and it is part of my policy, that the parish must become more clearly involved in that, in co-operation with the school and listening to the parents. MB: The prime responsibility for education rests with parents. Then there is the triangle, if you like, of the concern of parents, the life of the parish and the mission Rethinking Education in Ireland: 127 State and Church in Irish Education RETHINKING EDUCATION IN IRELAND Dr. Diarmuid Martin of the school.
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