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Nicola Gobbo, Barrister Turned Police Informer, Says Her 'Greatest Fear Is the Police Themselves'”

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Nicola Gobbo, Barrister Turned Police Informer, Says Her 'Greatest Fear Is the Police Themselves'” Networked Knowledge Law Reports Networked Knowledge Victoria Royal Commission Homepage This page set up by Dr Robert N Moles [Underlining, where it occurs, is for NetK editorial emphasis] On 10 December 2019 Josie Taylor and Rachael Brown of the ABC reported “Nicola Gobbo, barrister turned police informer, says her 'greatest fear is the police themselves'” Nicola Gobbo 'cries most days', but loses bid to avoid royal commission grilling Listen to the moment police lied to Nicola Gobbo to convince her to inform on clients How Nicola Gobbo's phone call quashed a gangland murder conviction Barrister-turned-informer Nicola Gobbo has told 7.30 she fears Victoria Police will kill her or leak information that could lead to her death. Key points: Nicola Gobbo was a gangland lawyer in Melbourne who became an informant to Victoria Police The High Court lifted a suppression order, revealing her identity to the media in March this year Ms Gobbo says she left the country fearing for her family's safety but her biggest fear is Victoria Police In a world exclusive, Ms Gobbo spoke to 7.30 from a secret, neutral international location. She never disclosed where she currently lives. The former gangland lawyer and her two young children have spent the past year overseas in what Ms Gobbo describes as an increasingly desperate and isolated existence. "I find myself some days thinking this is just an unbelievable nightmare that there is no end to," Ms Gobbo said. "Myself and my two young children are presently stranded overseas. We are effectively stateless because we have been left in a foreign country in which we have no rights, because obviously, we're foreigners. And we can't obtain residency," Ms Gobbo said. As a barrister, 46-year-old Ms Gobbo represented many notorious criminals, including Tony Mokbel and Carl Williams, during Melbourne's gangland war, which was later made famous in the Channel Nine drama series Underbelly. She was also passing information about her clients to Victoria Police. The Royal Commission into the Management of Police Informants is examining Victoria Police's recruitment and use of Ms Gobbo as a high-value informer. She was considered within Victoria Police as "a glittering prize". Ms Gobbo told 7.30 she left Australia before the royal commission due to safety concerns. Ms Gobbo said she has been living in hiding with her two children and wants to return to Australia. But she claimed she has been threatened with the removal of her children from her care if she ever returns home. "Victoria Police maintain that the children are potentially at risk and that that potential risk is so great that nothing that I do, or anyone else does for that matter or puts in place, as in things like increasing security or removing myself from public, for example … would ameliorate that risk sufficiently, and that therefore, it's in the best interests of the children to not be with their mother," Ms Gobbo said. "It's not the first time that they [Victoria Police] threatened me in relation to toeing the line and doing things their way or they would take my children," Ms Gobbo claimed. In a statement to 7.30, Victoria Police said it "will not be commenting". "These matters are highly relevant to the current royal commission and as such, it would be inappropriate to comment," the statement read. Ms Gobbo claimed her children have been traumatised and now suffer from separation anxiety. "We have been gone from our home for … almost 12 months to the day. We … were not given any opportunity to explain anything to anybody, or particularly in terms of the children, have any form of closure … It remains their belief that they were chased out of their home by police that are trying to take their mummy away, and that, to any parent, is beyond devastating," Ms Gobbo said. Ms Gobbo is preparing to sue Victoria Police for causing personal injury to her and her children. 7.30 understands she will seek millions of dollars in damages. Ms Gobbo settled her claim in 2010 in a separate legal action against Victoria Police which was reported in the media as being several millions of dollars. Numerous threats The royal commission has heard the former lawyer-turned-informer worked closely with police to gather evidence on gangland murders and large-scale drug operations. She claimed in a 2015 letter that her assistance led to 386 arrests. But Ms Gobbo told 7.30 she had never been in, nor would ever enter, the witness protection program, despite Victoria Police assessing the risk to her safety as very high. "There is no way I would trust them [Victoria Police]," Ms Gobbo said. The royal commission has heard the former barrister received numerous threats from the Melbourne underworld. These threats included being grabbed around the throat by one of her clients, and text messages threatening rape and murder. Despite that, the former lawyer said she and her children would be safer in Australia than overseas. “I will always live with the concern that, I mean, you can't control what some crazy might do … So there may be a situation where someone tries to do something … not a day from now, but a month from now, a year from now, 10 years from now," she said. "The best thing I can do is to be in a known environment, where I can know that someone doesn't look right and that there is someone that's out of place, or something not right in terms of the way things appear, as opposed to when you're in a foreign country or another place that you're not familiar with, where you wouldn't have a clue," Ms Gobbo said. But Ms Gobbo claimed the biggest threat to her safety is Victoria Police. "There's always going to be a risk [to her safety], but my greatest fear is the police themselves," Ms Gobbo claimed. When asked if she meant that rogue members of police might try to kill her, she replied: "Either to kill me or to lead to, lead to a position where I am killed." She elaborated that part of her fear stems from Victoria Police's "ability to burn me, cut me off and not protect me". "Look where I am. I mean, I am stuck," she said. Ms Gobbo says she wants to give evidence at commission In the interview with 7.30, Ms Gobbo declined to answer certain questions about her conduct, citing the need to avoid discussing matters which are currently before the royal commission. Head of the royal commission Margaret McMurdo has expressed frustration that Ms Gobbo has so far failed to give evidence under oath. Last week she ordered the former lawyer to begin giving evidence over the telephone from January 29. Commissioner McMurdo has already recorded three telephone conversations with Ms Gobbo, not under oath. Ms Gobbo's medical specialists have told the royal commission the former lawyer is too unwell to give evidence from her current location and is suffering from numerous physical and mental issues. Ms Gobbo told 7.30 she wants to give evidence but has not been able to due to her location, health issues, and having the sole care of her two young children. "In order to produce a witness statement I would conservatively guess that that would take me 1,000 hours, and … I mean, 1,000 hours without being interrupted, being able to concentrate and not being in pain. And then an opportunity to review the, what I understood some months ago, to be 30,000 pages of material." Ms Gobbo said she was only able to do an on-camera interview with 7.30 because the team travelled to meet her. "You [7.30] were able to understand that it was something that could only be done for a couple of hours, a very short period of time, because of issues to do with my children," Ms Gobbo said. Ms Gobbo said the commission has not made attempts to hear from her in circumstances that would be possible for her, despite Commissioner McMurdo saying the royal commission could take Ms Gobbo's evidence in two-hour blocks. "For months and months, it frustrated me. I was manic about it. I couldn't sleep … but over time, that has changed into suicidal thoughts — obviously no suicide action — severe depression, uncontrolled pain … frustration at the idea or the prospect that my version or even the details of some things are just going to be swept under the rug," Ms Gobbo said. Ms Gobbo gave her interview to 7.30 before the commissioner compelled her to give evidence next year, but Ms Gobbo has confirmed to 7.30 her position remains the same. In response to 7.30's questions, a spokeswoman for the royal commission said: "The commission has already received comprehensive notes, documents and records from Ms Gobbo. In addition, it has had several telephone conversations with Ms Gobbo. "The commission asks that Ms Gobbo now provide clarification on some evidence already before the commission by telephone in short bursts to accommodate her health concerns. "The commission is also willing to significantly limit the length and nature of Ms Gobbo's cross-examination to accommodate her health concerns. "Ms Gobbo has been represented at community expense and continues to be represented, throughout the life of this commission at virtually all its hearings by solicitors and by both senior and junior counsel. Whilst Ms Gobbo's lawyers commenced preparing a statement on her behalf, it was not completed." Legal betrayal The royal commission is examining whether Ms Gobbo breached legal privilege by passing on information to Victoria Police about her clients.
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