WA COUNTERS 1 L TESTIMONY The widow of accused presidential assassin Lee spent only one night away from home and he spent that in state witness testified Oswald told him he was going to the Harvey Oswald today contradicted testimony by the jail. Russo testified Oswald was Ferrie's roommate. Paine household the night before the assassination to pick up some curtain rods his wife had bought him. state's star witness in the trial of Clay L. Shaw. Marina was questioned by chief defense counsel F. Mrs. Marina Oswald Porter of Richardson, —OSWALT) NEVER WORE A BEARD. Russo said Os- wald was bearded, and failed to identify a picture of him Irvin Dyqmond, then on cross examination by chief prosecu- Tex., took the stand as the first defense witness until a beard was drawn on it. tor James L. Alcock. in the trial of Shaw, 55, charged with conspiring —Marina never heard of Shaw, Clay Bertrand, Ferrie, Dymond moved for the directed verdict yesterday after to kill President John F. Kennedy. Russo, Dean Andrews or a number of other persons con- the state rested its case. CRIMINAL DISTRICT JUDGE Edward A. Haggerty nected with the Garrison case. Jr. today turned down a defense motion for a directed —Oswald ordinarily dressed neatly, in clean clothes, ALSO TODAY, THE DEFENSE subpenaed three more verdict of acquittal for Shaw. Had he granted it, the trial and wore short hair. Russo had described him as dirty, witnesses. They are Sam Ferderson, 2144 Deslonde; Arthur would have ended and Shaw would have gone free. long-haired and unkempt. Q. Davis, 2475 Canal, and Preston Smith of the the Post District Attorney Jim Garrison charges Shaw plotted Office. the assassination here with Oswald and David W. Ferrie. —A TIGHT-COLORED STATION wagon belonging to Marina has consistently supported the Warren Commis- Perry Raymond Russo Testified for the state he heard Mrs. Ruth Paine was parked outside the Paine household sion's view that her late husband was the lone assassin. the trio discussing the assassination here in September, in Irving, Tex., at the time of the assassination. Two state She testified at length before the commission. 1963, at a party in Ferrie's apartment. witnesses testified to seeing persons flee the Texas School After Judge Haggerty turned down the motion for a di- Here are the high points of Marina's testimony: Book Depository in a light-colored. station wagon. rected verdict, the jury was brought back into the court- —During their entire stay in New Orleans, Oswald —Oswald never discussed any curtain rods with her. A (Tura to Page 18, Column II Eight Words, Marina Top

amkmwommaselagOR Trial Drama By JACK DEMPSEY ler with Gov. John J. Mc- Eight words and the Rus- Keithen, who was in _New Or- sian widow of an accused leans for a meeting today. Most of the newsmen who assassin gave the conspiracy have been covering the trial trial of Clay L. Shaw its most expected the ruling. The ap- dramatic moments today. See REACTION—Page 9 Those eight words — The motion for a directed verdict is denied"—triggered the long trial's first outburst from the crowded courtroom of news- Shaw Trial men and spectators. A short burst of applause from spectators and a few au- Testimony dible 'yeas" greeted the an- nouncement from Judge Ed- Court proceedings in the ward A. Haggerty Jr. that 27th day of the conspiracy Shaw's trial would continue. trial of Clay L. Shaw follow: Testimony today began with REPORTERS dashed from Mrs. Marina Oswald Porter the courtroom to report the on the stand, after Judge Ed- news. Others remained to ward A. Haggerty turned watch the reaction from the down a motion for a directed principals in the trial. They verdict and briefly recessed got no surprises. • the court. Shaw, who had been in the When court reconvened process of either taking pa- Judge Haggerty said, "I don't pers out or putting them into know whether you wish to re- a briefcase, stood up and serve a bill (bill of exception looked toward the rear of the to his ruling) but you should courtroom. HST sawyers sim- do so with the jury in the . ply shook their heads as If courtroom." they had expected the judge's CHIEF DEFENSE counsel F. Irvin Dymond told the "I am still confident I will judge, "The defense would 353 -vindicated," Shaw told like to lodge a formal objec- newsmen after walking to the tion to the decision overruling —Stoles-Own photo Pr, Rolph Urkbe. rail separating the specta- MRS. MARINA OSWALD PORTER is accompa- the motion for a directed ver- tors from the court area. dict." nied by her husband, KENNETH JESS PORTER, HE MANAGED a weak The jury was then brought as she arrives to testify at the Clay L. Shaw con- smile. into the courtroom and Hag- spiracy 'trial. District Attorney Jim Gar- gerty asked the defense to rison wasn't even in the court- state its motion. room when the announcement "At this time in the pres- was read. ence of the jury we would like SPORTS-MARKETS He had been in the judge's to reserve a bill of exception chambers where he evidently to the ruling," said Dymond. got the word, then left the Dymond then began the de- courtroom, totally expression- fense testimony, s a y i n g, less. "Please call Mrs. Porter." "WHAT'S your reaction?" Mrs. Porter identified her- he was asked as he walked self as the widow of Lee Har- down the hall of the Criminal vey Oswald and stated that NEWS BULLETINS Courts building. she now lives in Richardson, "I have no reaction," he Tex. replied. "I have no nervous Q—Do you have any children system anymore." Then he by Lee Harvey Oswald? was gone, reportedly to con- Turn to Page 6, Column 1 Continued from Front Page And then he had some kind of an interview on a radio room and Dymond lodged a formal objection to the judge's here in New Orleans. I didn't know if it was political be- action. cause at that time I didn't speak English." When her husband got to Dallas, Marina said he told her THEN THE DEFENSE called Mrs. Porter, who identi- he had been to Mexico. At this point, the rifle arrived and fied herself as Oswald's widow. She said she now lives in Dymond asked her if she were familiar with it. Richardson, Tex., with her new husband, her two daughters by Oswald and a child born after her remarriage. "NO, I'M NOT AN expert on rifles," she said. She said she and Oswald moved to New Orleans from She said she has seen Oswald cleaning the gun or sit- Dallas in May, 1963. She said Oswald came first and found ting with it on the porch. She said she later saw the rifle them a place to live on Magazine st. She could not recall at Ruth Paine's house. the landlord's name. Dymond asked Marina if she ever knew Oswald to have any large sums of money. She said no. Asked what is the Oswald, Marina said, was employed by the Reily Cof- most money he ever gave her, she said: fee Co. and went hack and forth to work on the bus. She "A dollar.' said she never saw Oswald drive an automobile. SHE TESTIFIED THEY left New Orleans owing two "DID YOU ever know him to wear a beard?" Dymond weeks' rent. asked. At the time of the assassination, Marina said she was "No, sir," said Marina. living with Mrs. Paine in Irving when the president was Oswald never wore long hair, Marina said. Asked if he killed. She said Mrs. Paine's station wagon was parked at kept it combed, she said "There wasn't much to comb." the house at the time of the assassination. Marina testified her husband lived in Dallas and visited DYMOND THEN asked Marina if Oswald ever went to the family in Irving on weekends. She said she never saw Clinton, La. "Not that I know of," she replied. his apartment in Dallas. The state introduced a series of witnesses placing Os- Alter a orief recess, Dymond walked directly behind wald will Shaw and Ferrie in Clinton in the late summer of Shaw and asked Marina: 1963. "Mrs, Porter, have you ever seen this man, Mr. Shaw, The witness said Oswald left New Orleans about a week before?" or 10 days after she did and she next saw him at the home "No, today was the first time I ever saw that man," she of Mrs. Ruth Paine in Irving, Texas. (She did not date said. this event today, but the Warren Commission said Oswald left New Orleans on Sept. 25, 1963.) SHE SAID THE OSWALDS never received any mail at After Oswald lost his coffee company job, Marina said, Magazine st. addressed to Shaw or with Shaw's return ad- he "stayed around the house most of the time. Sometimes dress on it. She said they received no letters or phone he would go to the library or to look for a job." calls from Shaw. He spent his nights at home, she said. Alcock then began cross-examining the witness. She Asked if Oswald had many friends, she said "just his said Oswald came to see her the night before the assas- relatives." She said the only trip the family took while sination, a Thursday night. This was unusual, she said, here was to Alabama. because he normally only came on weekends. She said he did not go out that night. DYMOND TEEN REELED off a list of names of persons Marina said Oswald never mentioned any curtain rods who have been connected to the Garrison case in one way or to her. A state witness, Buell W. Frazier, testified Oswald another. Marina said she did not know any of them. The told him the purpose of that particular trip to Irving was to names are: pick up curtain rods his wife had bought for his apartment. Clay Shaw, Clay Bertrand, Clem Bertrand, David Fer- rie, Sandra Moffett, Miles Peterson, Layton Martens, Alvin SHE SAID OSWALD KEPT his rifle in the Paine garage. Beauboeuf, Melvin Coffey, Al Landry, James Lewallen and She said she saw him go into the garage that night, but Perry Raymond Russo. did not see him bring anything out. She said to her knowledge, her husband never knew She said that after the assassination, police came to the any of these people. In the case of Ferrie, she was shown house and looked for the rifle, but didn't find it. three photos. She said none of them looked familiar. Marina said she spoke to Oswald in the Dallas police station once after the slaying. Oswald's mother was also ASKED IF OSWALD USED any aliases, she said he present, she said. once signed some papers in the name of Hidell. (The War- Alcock asked her what Oswald told her. She said: ren Commission said Oswald used this name in ordering the rifle used to kill Kennedy.) "HE TOLD ME NOT TO worry. He told me everything Marina said her husband owned a rifle while here would be all right." and Dymond called for one which has been introduced into "Did he admit to you that he had shot President Ken- evidence. While waiting for it, he asked Marina about Os- nedy?" Alcock asked. wald's political views. She said: "No, sir, I didn't ask him about that," she said. "He did not talk about politics in the presence of me." Marina said Oswald did not ask her to get him an Asked If he made any speeches, she said: attorney. She never saw him again. Marina testified she was questioned by the FBI and "HE MADE SOME kind of a speech when he visited Secret Service. Alcock asked her if she ever was told by some kind of a Catholic seminary here. I didn't attend. the FBI she would have to cooperate in order to stay in the country. Dymond objected and was sustained.

SHE SAID SHE TRIED to contact Oswald once in Dal- DYMOND OBJECTED AND SAID her entire testimony las and could not because he had taken the apartment before the commission should be admitted "because Mr. Al- under an assumed name. "That made me angry with him," cock has opened the door." Judge Haggerty overruled him, saying he did not know what inadmissible material was al- she said. This took place shortly before the assassination, she said. lowed by the commission. In New Orleans, Marina said, she once went to the Marina said: "Most of these questions were put to me coffee company where Oswald worked and did not find by the FBI and I did not like them very well. When I give him there. She said she may have gone to the wrong testimony I don't lie. I didn't lie to the Warren Com- mission." company. I Marina said Oswald did not tell her he had lost his job On redirect, Marina said she does not know what Oswald until three days after he lost it. planned to do about her if he had been successful in his plan to reach Cuba. SHE SAID OSWALD HAD few friends, never talked Marina was then excused as a witness and court re- much, liked to be alone and read a lot. She said he was cessed for lunch. out of work for about a month in the summer of 1963. Judge Haggerty studied "I found out he had pretended he was still working. transcripts of the testimony of Russo overnight in order to be vindicated." make his decision on the di- Arguing for the directed rected verdict motion. verdict, Dymond said: Then he told me he had lost his job and he started looking Garrison said of the deci- "Perry Russo admitted from for another," she said. sion: that witness stand that this Alcock asked her if during that time Oswald continued "I have no reaction. I have was, in his own terminology, to leave the house during the same hours as if he were no nervous system any a bull session. working. She said he did. She said he rarely told her more." "He was asked, 'Did you anything he did. hear Clay Shaw agree to do IN THE courtroom, there anything.' He said, 'no.' With- MARINA SAID SHE KNEW her husband was handing was a short burst of applause out such agreement, the re- out leaflets. She said he was "quite excited" about them. from spectators as the judge quirements of law cannot be met." "I lake it he wasn't home during the day when he was announced his decision. Court convened at 9:05 pretending to work," Alcock said. Marina agreed. Alcock argued that some "Do you know what he was doing when be pretended to a. m., and Judge Haggerty of Judge Haggerty's rulings work," he asked. "No," said Marina. said, "I'm going to make my in the course of the trial al- "But he wasn't home was he?" Marina agreed he ruling out of the presence of ready held the state had es- wasn't, the jury." He then said he tablished the basis of a con- had been asked to call a five- spiracy case. I ASKED IF SHE CONSIDERS Oswald a Communist, minute recess after his de- Alcock said Dymond's view I Marina replied, "No sir." cision so there would not be a of the alleged conspiracy She said she doesn't remember if any FBI agents went rush to get out of the court- meeting "seems to overlook to the apartment to see Oswald in New Orleans. room. the fact that one of the par- Marina testified Oswald told her he shot at Gen. Edwin The judge then said: "The ticipants in this conversation A. Walker. She said she didn't know when this was and motion for a directed verdict was Lee Harvey Oswald." didn't report it to anyone before the Kennedy assassination. is denied." In his testimony, Russo One day, she said, a man came to the door of the apart- said he knew Oswald as Leon ment on Magazine and talked to Oswald. She said she did SHAW WAS in the process not see the man, but "Lee came back inside and said it was of either taking papers out or probably some FBI agent or maybe a reporter. The man putting them into a briefcase. f didn't stay long." He stood up and looked toward the back of the court- Oswald, Ferrie's roommate. "DID THE FBI USUALLY CHECK on him?" Alcock room. He walked to the rail He said Shaw was introduced asked. separating the spectators as Clem Bertrand. Shaw has "Yes," said Marina. from the court area, paused Alcock asked if Oswald ever saw an attorney in New briefly looking to the back of denied knowing either man Orleans about his discharge from the service and she said the room, his face somber. and denied he ever used such she didn't remember. (New Orleans attorney Dean A. An- He then walked back to the an alias. drews Jr. told the Warren Commission Oswald consulted defense table. His attorneys him about his Marine Corps discharge. Marina said today sat at the table. FERRIE DIED in the apart- she never heard of Andrews.) Garrison strolled into the ment Feb. 22, 1967, shortly "Did you tell the Warren Commission you lied to the courtroom a few minutes be- after Garrison's investigation FBI about Oswald's trip to Mexico?" Alcock asked. fore the judge took the bench. was made public. The coro- He walked back to the area "I DIDN'T LIE. I just didn't tell them he went," said of the judge's chamber, then ner said the death was due Marina. came out and left the court- to natural causes. She said she appeared before the Warren Commission room. Oswald was slain by Jack three or four times. "Do you recall admitting you lied to Ruby in the Dallas police the Warren Commission?" Alcock asked. THE COURTROOM was headquarters two days after "No, sir, I don't remember that at all. I just told them packed for Judge Haggerty's the assassination. Ruby died everything 1 know," she said. decision. of cancer in prison. Alcock then read a statement, apparently from Ma- As the recess began, Shaw rina's testimony in the Warren Report, in which she said managed a smile and told re- she did not like the FBI agents and lied to them about porters: Oswald's trip to Mexico. "I am still confident I will Continued from Front Page automobile in Texas? baby up to Clinton i• A—No, we never owned an A—No. A—Yes, I have two children automobile. Q—DID ANYONE EVER —two girls. Q—Was Lee Harvey Oswald take the baby to Clinton? Q—Do you have any other able to drive an automobile. A—Nobody ever took the children? A—I had never seen him baby away from me. A—Yes, I have one other drive an automobile. Q—About how long after you child. Q—Did you know how to left New Orleans did Lee Har- Q—I refer you to the year, drive an automobile? vey Oswald leave? 1963; approximately when did A—No, I still don't. you and Lee Harvey Oswald Q—Did you ever know him move to New Orleans? to wear a beard? A—We moved to New Or- A—I saw him by seven or A—No, sir. 10 days after I left New Or- leans in May of 1963. Q—Did he shave regularly? Q—From where? leans. A—Not every day, but he Q—Where did you see him A—From Dallas, Tex. never wore a beard. Q—When you moved to New the next time? Q—Mrs. Porter, I show you A—The next time I saw him Orleans in 1963, did you have a photograph . .. and ask you any children? at Ruth Paine's house. whether you are able to locate Q—Where is Ruth Paine's A—Yes, I had one child Lee Harvey Oswald in it. and expected another. house? A—He's here in the middle A—At Irving, Tex. Q—Did you and Lee Harvey of this picture. Q—During the time you were Oswald come to New Orleans She was then asked by Dy- living in New Orleans, did you together or separately? mond to place an X over Os- ever know Lee Harvey Oswald A—We came separately. wald in the picture. to spend time away from Lee came here first and got Q—Now Mrs. Porter, I ask home? a job and a place to stay. you to look at photographs you A—Only once, when he spent Q—Approximately how long have identified, and tell us if the night in jail. after Lee Harvey Oswald you have ever seen him with Q—DO YOU RECALL any came to New Orleans did you more beard. other nights? come to New Orleans? A—THIS IS THE most A—No. A—In a week's time. beard I've ever seen him with. Q—Did he work anywhere Q—About a week? Q—With respect to clothing, else except the coffee com- A—Yes. did he ordinarily wear dirty pany? Q—When you came here clothing or clean clothing? A—He lost his job shortly did Lee Harvey Oswald have A—Clean clothes. before we left New Orleans. a place to live? Q—When he was going out Q—After be lost his job with A—He had already rented a of the house—when he was the coffee company, how did place. going out in public—did he he spend his time? Q—Where was the place? have any unusual habits con- A—He stayed around the A-4905 Magazine st. I'm cerning clothing? house most of the time. Some- not sure-4905 or 4907. A—No, sir. If he had to go times he would go to the li- Q—Who were your landlord downtown in New Orleans he brary or to look for a job. and landlady? always changed clothes. He Q—Can you tell where he A—I don't know that now. wore a clean shirt. If he was spent his nights? Q—Did you ever know? going someplace in the neigh- A—At home. A—Not then. Not when I borhood, like when he was go- Q—What did he do at home? was living there. ing to the store, a small su- A—Mostly he was reading. Q—Have you since learned ' permarket, he would wear a Q—Did he read a lot? their names? T-shirt and slacks. A—Yes. A—I don't recall . . . Q—How many shirts did he Q—Dld you have many Q—During the time you have? friends? lived a year in New Orleans A—NOT VERY MANY. He A—Just his relatives. on Magazine st. was Lee only had about two dress A—The family name was Harvey Oswald employed? shirts. Murat. A—Yes, he was. Q—Did he ever wear long Q—Can you spell the name? Q — Where was he em- hair? A—No. ployed? A—No. Q—During the time that you A—It was at the Reily Cof- Q—What was the condition lived here with Lee Harvey fee Co. of his hair? Oswald did you and he make Q—What were his hours? A—Quite short. any trips? A—Eight o'clock, I think, to Q—Was it combed or un- A—Yes, to Alabama. 5:30. combed? Q—Only one trip? Q—How did he get to work? A—There wasn't much to A—Yes. A—By bus. comb. Q—Do you remember how Q—HOW DID HE return Q—Did Lee Harvey Oswald long after you moved here home? ever take a trip up to Clinton, you went to Alabama? A—The same way. La.? A—I don't remember. Q—Did he ever own an au- A—Not that I know of. Q—Did you and your hus- tomobile while living in New Q—Did you ever go to Clin- band visit any other persons Orleans? ton, La.? here besides the Murats? A—No, sir. A—No. A—We never visited. I Q—Did you ever own an Q—Did you ever take the don't think so. dry and James Lewatten. he have an apartment any- Q—Was your husband ab- where else? sent from home any nights Mrs. Porter continued to shake her head as the names A — No. when you lived here? Q—Were you aware that A—No. were read. Q — Are any of these names your husband had a rifle while Q—Was he home at night? familiar to you? you were living here? A—Yes, A — No. A—Yes, I knew about it. Q—Did any friends visit you Q — Is the name Perry Q—Would you recognize it if except the Murats? Raymond Russo familiar to it were shown to you? • A—Only once. Mrs. Ruth you? 1 A—No, sir. Paine and a lady with some A — No, Dymond called for a rifle children. Q — To your knowledge, which had been introduced Q—Can you recall their did your late husband know into evidence. A court attache names? anyone by the name of Perry said it was in the sheriff's of- A—No. Raymond Russo or Perry Rus- fice and the judge ordered it Q--At the time you were so? brought into the courtroom. living here with Lee Harvey A — No. Meanwhile Dymond continued Oswald did you know or were Q To your knowledge, questioning the witness, you familiar with a man by Mrs. Porter, what, if any oth- Q—WIIILE YOU WERE liv- the name of Clay Shaw? er names, did Lee Harvey Os- ing at the Magazine st. ad- A—No. wald use? dress with Lee Harvey Os- Q—When was the first time A — Yes. He signed some wald, did anyone pick him you heard the name of Clay up — you or both of you? Shaw? A—Only the Murats. A—When the trial began papers once in the name of Q—Can you tell me the type here. Heidel. of automobile the Murals Q—Did you ever hear the Q — Did he use any other had? name of Clay Bertrand? - name? A—No, sir. It could have A—No. A — No. Not at the time I been his cousin, too. Lee's cou- Q—Did you ever bear the was married to him. sin would come sometimes. name of Clem Bertrand? Q — Any other time before At this point Dymond picked A—No. you married him? up a photograph and showed Q—When was the first time it to Mrs. Porter asking: that you heard this name? A — I FOUND OUT he rent- Q—Does this look like the A—When the trial began ed an apartment once under Murat car? here. another name, A—I can't say. Q—Did you ever know any- Q — Did he ever use the one by the name of Dave name of Leon Oswald? Q—DO YOU REMEMBER Ferrie or David W. Ferrie? A — No. the color of the Murat car? A—No. Q — Is that name familiar A—No, sir. to you? Q — To your knowledge, Q—I-tow many times did you Mrs. Porter, did your husband A — No. see their automobile? Q — Was he ever known to Lee Harvey Oswald know any- A—Maybe two or three one by the name of Dave Fer- have used the name Harvey times. rie or David W, Ferrie? Oswald? At this point Dymond A — I don't know about it. Q—To your knowledge did chose a picture of Dave Fer- Q — To your knowledge, anyone else pick up Lee Har- rie which had been introduced Mrs. Porter, did he do that? vey Oswald in an automobile? into evidence by the state. He A — No, sir. A—No, sir. showed it to Mrs. Porter and Q — You said, "I don't Q--White you and Lee Har- ' asked her if it looked familiar. know about that." What do vey Oswald were married, did She said it did not. you mean? I said did he ever you ever awn an automobile? He also picked out two other use the name of Harvey Os- A—No. pictures of Ferrie and showed wald to your knowledge? Q—To your knowledge, did them to her, She said neither A — HE MAY HAVE used he ever own one? looked familiar. that name but not to my A—No. Q — During the time that knowledge. you were married to Lee Har- Q — During the time that Q — TO YOUR KNOWL- vey Oswald, do you know to you and Lee Harvey Oswald EDGE, did he ever borrow an your knowledge if he knew a were living at the Magazine automobile? person by the name of Sandra st, address, did he live at any A—No. Moffett? time anywhere else? Q—Was Lee Harvey Oswald A — No. A — No. While we lived non-committal or outspoken in Dymond then said he was here, he had the same ad- his political views? dress that I had the whole going to call a list of names A—He did not talk about pol- and he wanted her to answer time. ities in the presence of me. whether or not to her knowl- Q — Did you ever have a edge Oswald knew any of the broken marriage or were you Q—Did you ever know if he persons. He then read a list separated? had made any speeches? of names: Niles Peterson, A — No. A---He made some kind of a Layton Martens, Alvin Beau- Q — Was he rooming or did speech when he visited some boeuf, Melvin Coffey, Al Lan- kind of a Catholic seminary here. I didn't attend. And then he had some kind of an inter- Tex? view on radio here in New Or- was it before your bosom A—I don't remember. leans. I didn't know if it was joined you? Q—Did you ever know Lee political because at that time A—In about a week or 10 Harvey Oswald to have any I didn't speak English. days he showed up. I don't large sums of money? know whether he came by bus A—No. Q—When you left New Or- and we picked him up or Q—Have you ever seen him leans, how did you leave, Mrs. whether he came by bus and with a large roll of money? Porter? then came direct to the house. A—No. I don't remember. Q—What is the most money A—I LEFT WITH Ruth Q—Did your husband tell he ever gave you? Paine. where he had been during the Q—Where did she come A—A dollar. period? I Q—Did you know that he from when she came here? A—HE WENT TO Mexico. A—Irving, Tex. ever had any large sums of Q—Do you know how long money in the house? Q—Did you leave right he was in Mexico? away? A—I never looked in his A—He did not tell me. A—No, she stayed with us wallet or any of his personal At this point, Dymond pick- for two or three days. effects. ed up the rifle and began Q—Who did the grocery Q—Was she alone at the questioning her about it. shopping? time? A—Well, both of us, but he A—She had her children DY1VIOND THEN showed paid the bills and took care with her. Two children. her a rifle which had earlier of the money. Q—I know you couldn't be been Introduced as state's ex- Q—Who paid the rent? exact, but could you give us hibit 18. A—He did. the approximate age of her Q—Now, Mrs. Porter, I Q—Did he keep the rent two children? show you a rifle identified as current or did he ever get A—At that time I think they S18, is this familiar to you? behind on the rent? were four and two or five A—No, I'm not an expert in A—I think he owed two and three. rifles. weeks' rent when we left New Q—What type of car did Q—But, you did testify that Orleans. Mrs. Paine have? you did know that he had a Q—Did you ever have to A—A station wagon. A light rifle? make the rent good? colored-one. A—Yes. A—Just that two weeks,. I Q—With reference to the think; I'm not sure. I think Q—WHE? YOU AND she rifle that you say that Lee I paid it after all of this left, who left with you? Harvey Oswald owned, had happened. you seen that rifle during the Q—You mean after the as- time you lived in New Or- sassination? A—Ruth and her two chil- leans? A—Yes, I think I cleared it dren and me and the baby. A—Not very close. I had dp after the assassination. Q—Did you drive straight seen him cleaning it or sit- Q—During your shopping through? ting with it on the porch. trips, did you have to be care- A—We stopped overnight Q—Where did he keep that ful or could you buy every- somewhere. rifle? thing you wanted? Q—Then you got to Dallas A—In the closet where he A—I had to be very care- the following day? kept his clothes. ful. A—Yes. Q—Did you ever seen him Q—Where did you go then? Q—To your knowledge, did take it off the premises - Lee HarVey Oswald ever have A—I stayed at her house In that is out of the house or a bank account? Irving. We didn't know then out of the yard? whether we would live in Dal- A—I don't remember. las or in Irving. Q—To your knowledge, do A—I don't know about that. Q—I take it that Irving is a you know how the rifle got suburb of Dallas. Do you know to Texas? Q—After his death, did you how many miles it is from A—Lee packed all of his receive any money from bank Dallas? clothes and I don't know what accounts or did you receive any estate? A—No. he packed. Later, I saw 11 at Ruth Paine's house. A—No, no bank accounts and no estates. Q—DO YOU KNOW how Q—When is the next time long it takes to drive to Dal- you saw the rifle? Q—Did you receive his per- sonal possessions? las? A—I saw the rifle when the A—It takes 15-25 minutes. police arrived. A—No, all that was con- Q—When you arrived at this Q—Was that before or after fiscated. I don't know where house, did you go there to the assassination? they are. live? A—After. Q—Where were you living A—Yes. Q—Did you see the rifle on Nov. 22, 1963? That's the Q—I understand that Lee between the time you were date the President was killed.' Harvey Oswald was not with living in New Orleans and A—With Ruth Paine in Irv- ing, Tex. 1 you at the time? after you got to Irving? A—No. A---k might have seen it. I Q—Where were you at the Q—How Iong after you ar- don't remember. time of the assassination? rived at Mrs. Paine's house Q—Did you A—At the house. see it in Irving, Q—How did you find out! A—No, sir. Q—Did he ever mention about the assassination? anything to you about decor- A—Ruth Paine told me she ating his apartment in Dal- had bad an appointment and telephone calls from Clay las? she came and we watched Shaw? A—No, sir. television together. A—No. Q—Did Mrs. Paine ever 0—Where was Ruth Paine's give him any curtain rods? car at the time? MRS. PORTER WAS then A—No, sir, A—At the house. cross-examined by Alcock. --Q—Where was Lee's gun Q—To your knowledge, did Q—Mrs. Porter, can you tell kept? she leave in that car or did me what refreshed your mem- A—(Pause) In the garage the car leave shortly after the ory during recess to cause ( where the luggage was kept. assassination? you to change your testi- Q—Was it wrapped up? A—No. mony from August, 1963, to Q—Did Ihe car leave? September of 1963 as the date A—I DON'T KNOW. A—No. (Pause) Shortly aft- you left New Orleans? Q—Did you see it at any er the assassination the police The witness explained she time on Nov. 21, 1963? came and after that I don't was expecting a baby at the A—I don't remember if I remember who came and time and the child was'born saw it then. went. in October. She said she knew Q—Can you recall what Q—Now, Mrs. Porter, after the baby was horn nearer to time Lee went to bed? Lee Harvey Oswald got to, when she left New Orleans. A—No, sir, Dallas, did he live in Ruth Q—Did you talk to anyone.. Q—Was it before or after Paine's house? during recess? everyone else went to bed? A—Yes, sir. What I mean is A—Yes, I spoke to Mr. A—It was after. he used to come and visit us. Shaw. 0—Were you awake when Q—Well, where was he liv- She then turned to Dymond Lee went to work the next ing? and said, "This attorney morning? A—He was renting in Oak here." She had the names A—I was awake but I did Cliff. (A part of Dallas). .-- confused. not get up, because he told Q—Did you ever see where Alcock resumed cross-ex- me to stay in bed. he was renting? amination. Q—Did he have any curtain A—No, I never did. Q—Did you have occasion ods with him? At this point Dymond said to see Lee the night before A—No, sir. he was finished with his ex- the assassination? amination and the judge de- A—I saw him the next day Q--DID YOU GIVE him clared a recess before Alcock in jail. any? could begin his examination. A—No. Judge Haggerty, directing Q—NO. DID you see him Q—Did Mrs. Paine give him his remarks to assistant dis- the night before—that would any curtain rods? trict attorney. James L. Al- be a Thursday evening? A—No, sir. cock, told him that during the A—Yes, he came to the Q—Did he ever ask Mrs. recess Dymond had asked the house. Paine for any curtain rods? court's permission to question Q—Do you recall what time A—No, sir. the witness further. he arrived. Q—Did you know how he A- Some time after work. Dymond asked Mrs. Porter got to work? Q—Was this usual for him A—No, sir. if she wanted to correct any to visit you on a Thursday? testimony she had given earl- Q—Do you know at ap- A—No, sir, it was not. He proximately. what time he ier. She answered, "Yes." visited on weekends. She said she left New Or- left? Q—Did Lee go out that A—No, I don't remember, leans Sept, 29, 23 or 24. night? Q—That was in 1963? sir. A—No, sir, he spent all Q—At any time the night A—Yes. evening at home. before, did you see him with Q—Do you recall what he AT THIS POINT Dymond any package? did? A—No, sir. got up and walked directly Q—Do you recall seeing any behind Shaw, asked, "Mrs, A—NO, SIR. wrapping paper around Mrs. Porter, have you ever seen Q—Did he show you cur- Paine's house? this man, Mr. Shaw, before? tain rods? A—No, sir. A—No, today was the first A—No. Lime I ever saw that man. Q—Did you see Lee go into Q—Did he ask you to pur- the garage at any time? Q—Did you ever receive any chase any curtain rods for mail at your apartment on A—Yes sir, he went there him? a few times. Magazine st. addressed to A—No, sir. Clay Shaw or with the return , Q—In order to enter the Q—Ever see any curtain garage do you have to go out- address of Clay Shaw on it? rods in his possession? A—No. side, or through the house? Q—Did you ever receive any telegrams from Clay Shaw? A—THROUGH TIM house. A--No. 0—Which door fnm the 0—Did you ever receive any house leads to the garage? A—Thee e were two doors. you with another person? One frcm the den and one A—My mother-in-law was I don't remember how long. from the outside. with me. Alcock then asked Mrs. Q—You mean Mrs. Oswald? Q—Which door did Lee use? Porter if she had ever ,been A—The door from the den. A—Yes, sir. Q—Did you go with him into told by the FBI she wouldw the garage? Q—WHAT DID LEE tell have to cooperate if she were A—No, sir. you? to stay in the country. — Q—Do you recall how long A—He told me not to worry. Dymond raised an objec- a time he spent in the garage? He told me everything would tion and Judge Haggerty'sus- A—About three minutes. I be all right. ta Med it. remember I was busy with Q—Would you explain? Alcock resumed question- the baby. A—I can't explain. ing. Q—Did you see him bring Q—Do you recall anything Q—Did the FBI ask you in anything from the garage? he said? about Lee's trip to Mexico? A—No, sir. A—No sir. At this point, Dymond ob- Q—Did he admit to you he jected again. ALCOCK THEN told the wit- had shot President Kennedy? Judge Haggerty then di- ness he understood that dur- A—No, sir, I didn't ask him rected Alcock to rephrase 'his ing her testimony under di- about that. question. Alcock did saying rect examination she said she Q—He didn't volunteer to "Did you discuss with FBI had seen the rifle, again. you? agents Lee's trip to Mexico?" Q—When did you next see A—No sir. A—Yes. the rifle? Q—Did he ask you about Q—Did you discuss with the A—I don't recall the date, getting him an attorney? FBI as to the time when'you but it was the date they A—No, sir. first learned of Lee's inten- showed it to me at the War- Q—After this conversation tion to go to Mexico? • ren Commission. with Lee at the police sta- Alcock then asked if she had tion, did you see him again? A—I DON'T REMEMBER. ' accompanied the police into A—No, sir. Q—When did you first find the garage after the assassi- Q—Where did you go fol- out when Lee intended CO 'go nation. lowing this visit to the jail? to Mexico? A—I don't remember. A—Right . before I left New Orleans. - Q—DID YOU GO back to Q—How much time would A—yes, the -police asked Mrs. Paine's house? that be? - me . . . A—I just don't remember. A—About two weeks befdre Q—Mrs, Porter, you can't Q—I realize it's been a I left New Orleans. tell us what the police asked long time ago, Mrs. Porter. Q—Mrs. Porter, you never you . . . Just tell us what I'm not trying to pressure visited Lee in his apartMent in Dallas? you did. you. I'm just trying to es- A—They were looking for tablish where you went. A—No, sir, Lee's rifle. A—We went to Six Flags. Q—Did you ever try' to Q—They didn't see one, did Q—Is that in Dallas? contact Lee while he was in Dallas? they? A—Yes, sir. A—Yes, he left me a tele- A—No. Q—Do yliu recall who took mu there? phone number where I could Q—Do you recall ever see- reach him, but when I called ing a rifle In the garage? that number the lady said)lo- body by that name lived I A—I DON'T REMEMBER. there. I know the baby bed was Q—In other words he used out there and there were an alias? several packages. I did not A—What do you mean? pack the luggage so I don't remember what was in the Q—I MEAN DID HE use packages another name? Q—Did you unwrap a long A—Yes, sir. The Secret Serv- A—Yes, and that made me package? ice. angry with him. Q—Could that alias have • A—I think they fthe police) Q--Was the FBI also there? did. I know Lee was sup- been 0. H. Lee? A—Yes, sir. I posed to have a rifle. They A—I don't remember. Q—Do you remember when looked for one but couldn't Q—WERE YOU questioned find one. he first rented that other by FBI agents while at Six A—Did you have occasion apartment? to speak to Lee in the police Flags? A—No. Q—Did he live in Mrs. station in Dallas? A—Yes, sir. Paine's house very long? A—Yes, sir. One time. Q—For how long a time? Q—For how long a period A—I don't remember how A—Very many people came. long. did you speak to Lee? A--About 10 minutes. Q—Did he live in one or two apartments In Dallas.? you alone, or were Q—Were A—I don't know.