THEATRE ARCHIVE PROJECT http://sounds.bl.uk Auston Cole – interview transcript Interviewer: Dominic Shellard 6 November 2007 Theatre-goer. Frank Adie; Tommy Cooper; Cecily Courtneidge; Noel Coward; G.H. Elliot; Roy Hudd; Jack and Claude Hulbert; London Coliseum; Murray and Mooney; music hall; new writing; Ivor Novello; Beryl Reid; Sheffield theatres; theatre seating; variety; Waiting for Godot; West End. DS: Well, welcome to the British Library Austin, and thank you very much indeed for agreeing to be interviewed for the AHRC British Library Theatre Archive Project. AC: Thank you. DS: Could I just ask you first of all whether you’re happy for the interview to deposited in the British Library Sound Archive. AC: I’m totally happy with that. DS: Thank you very much indeed. And perhaps we can start by discussing how you first became interested in the theatre. AC: That’s quite simple Dominic, and I’m glad you asked me that as a kick-off, because before the war my parents took me to London, to the theatre. And also we had two theatres in Cambridge. I was born in a village not far from Cambridge, and that was our weekend visiting town – now it’s a city. And I realised that anywhere I went, if I could get in theatre – that’s what as I thought of as I worked so hard, no matter all stages of my life – I found that when I’d finished that, the thought was ‘where can I get into the theatre?’. DS: Wonderful. AC: Now, as a consequence of that, little wonder then when the war came and I was recruited into a particular service of the Royal Navy. I was sent to London to the Admiralty frequently. I was the youngest in this particular service. And of course the first thing I made for were the West End, London theatres. Whether it be ballet, some opera, or big musicals and some plays. But during the war we were all ready for being cheered http://sounds.bl.uk Page 1 of 11 Theatre Archive Project up along the way, so it was mostly a musical I could catch in the West End. And whilst bombing was going on I wasn’t going to leave that show unless the stage manager walked out and ordered the cast off stage, and the audience in the shelters. So it was time and time again, all the places I went, there was one thing at the back of my mind, right away along the line, ‘where’s the nearest theatre I can get into’. So I hope that explains a really true, deep love of the theatre. It sat on my mind. Work first – I was always a hard worker – and then ‘where’s the nearest theatre?’. And so that brings us to the end of the war – in my case 1946 – when I was fortunate enough to get a place in the Honours School of Architecture, at the University of Sheffield. On the first night I was landed in some university digs, and the chap that was going to share them with me arrived a bit later in the day. And the first thing I said to him, after saying hello, ‘Do you like the theatre?’. He said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘Well we’ll go to the Palace Attercliffe tonight if you like.’. And that we did. So it was the first day, arrived in Sheffield, and then lo and behold I quickly got into Crewe Hall [of residence], and I was allowed to stay there nearly the whole of my time at Sheffield. DS: Sorry, which hall, can you say that again? AC: Crewe Hall. DS: Crewe Hall. AC: Yes. And I quickly found out by going down the town, in the city centre - on the lovely black and yellow trams that were a wonderful ride in those days. I miss them, so I was so glad that the trams have come back now, but that’s another story - But down the town I went to seek out where the theatres were. And lo and behold there was the Stoll Moss Empire Theatre, Sheffield, unfortunately now pulled down. It was 6.15 and 8.45, [in those days] and the artists that were coming there, week after week, not the same ones… were on the Stoll Moss circuit – theatre circuit. And they went from city to town, to town, to city, a different theatre each week. And so I saw all those artists that really were – some of them – known through radio where their act was possible to be an act over radio [could be understood] – sound alone therefore. And [nearly] all the artists that you could read about or find out about, or just hear about, they were passed through the Empire Theatre, Sheffield [and The Lyceum]. And there it was, every Wednesday, three or four or five of us would go to the Empire Theatre, Sheffield. I got to know the manager who stood out the front in white tie and tails, but not the top hat. And mostly I hadn’t got tickets, and he would pass me to the doorman, who I would tip, and then he’d get… I think he’d got an arrangement with the box office, because we got lovely seats every week. And some of the artists I saw there went on [working] for quite a time. And, well, I saw so many, that if some of them broke away from the Stoll Moss theatre circuit run in the summer to go to a seaside show, such as Scarborough, I’d seen so many of them after two or three years at Sheffield and going to the Empire, and the Lyceum, every week, that I could look at the bill on say a big show at Scarborough, and tell you if the show was any good, because I knew probably a third of artists who were in that bill. [Laughs] http://sounds.bl.uk Page 2 of 11 Theatre Archive Project But now Dominic, I think probably it might be interesting for anyone that would be listening in later times from your archive, to tell you about one or two of the artists. DS: Please do. AC: Now, a man that stands out in my memory is [Mooney of] Murray and Mooney – well it was a two man act. And they were getting on a bit, you know, they were about 50 or 60. And when we turned up one particular week at the Empire Theatre, Sheffield, we went to the 8.45 house. There was a man standing in the auditorium stalls, on the right hand side as you face the stage, up near the orchestra pit rail. He was talking to people as we all went in to take our seats. And he had twill trousers, a nice jacket and cap. And then as usual the first act came on and this man was still standing there. But I thought he was waiting to get into his seat after everyone else had got in, and of course his seat may have been, in my thoughts, at the end of the row, next the side aisle. But he stood there still, because all the seats were full. And the first act came on, which usually at the Empire Theatre, Sheffield, was a dancing act – two girls or a fellow and a girl etc, or two chaps. Terrific opening numbers they always had there. And then the next act came on, and it was Murray of Murray and Mooney. DS: Whose catchphrase according to the program here is ‘even their relations think they’re funny’. AC: That is so. [A saying about the act]. And this is what [happened]… I suddenly then found out why he’d been standing there. Murray, his partner, came on the stage and said, ‘Ladies and gentlemen, I’d like to now to recite a monologue for you.’ And he started spluttering away with this thing, I forget what it was now. It could have been something, ‘Oh green and yellow eyed monster in the [inaudible] of Amsterdam’ or something. And Mooney called out, ‘Here, I’ve bought a goat.’ And Murray said, ‘Do you mind?’ he said, ‘I’m trying to get on with a monologue for the ladies and gentlemen. What on earth would you do with a goat?’ he said. ‘Would you mind not…?’ And at this Mooney started climbing up the small little steps at the side of the stage, and as he moved on Murray called out again, ‘Do you mind not interrupting, I’m trying to get through with this monologue for the ladies and gentlemen.’. And Mooney said, ‘I’ve just told you I’ve bought a goat.’ And Murray said, ‘You’ve what… what on earth are you going to do with it? You can’t take it back to our theatrical digs.’ He said, ‘Yes I can.’ Mooney said, ‘I can sneak it in the back way.’ And Murray said, ‘Well you’ll never get away with it.’ He said, ‘I will.’ And he said, ‘Well what if you got it in, where are you going to put it?’ And Mooney said, ‘Oh that’s simple, we’ll put it under the bed.’ And Murray said, ‘What about the smell?’ And Mooney said, ‘He won’t mind that!’. [Laughter] AC: Now that was Mooney. Now the most interesting thing about Mooney was in 2005, that will still stick in [my mind], Dominic, was what was happening within your 1945 year and ’68… 1968.