FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE Members present: Ms DE Farmer MP (Chair) Ms VM Barton MP Mr MJ Crandon MP Mr CD Crawford MP Mr DA Pegg MP Mr PT Weir MP Staff present: Ms D Jeffrey (Research Director) Dr M Lilith (Principal Research Officer) Ms C Heffernan (Executive Assistant) PUBLIC HEARING—INQUIRY INTO THE INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS (RESTORING FAIRNESS) AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2015 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS MONDAY, 25 MAY 2015 Brisbane Public Hearing—Inquiry into the Industrial Relations (Restoring Fairness) and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2015 MONDAY, 25 MAY 2015 ___________ Committee met at 9.00 am BATTAMS, Mr John, President, Queensland Council of Unions (QCU) BEHRENS, Mr Nick, General Manager, Advocacy, Chamber of Commerce and Industry Queensland (CCIQ) DONALD, Dr Sandy, Public Health Delegate, Together Queensland EDMONDS, Ms Thalia, Industrial Advocate, Queensland Teachers’ Union of Employees (QTUE) MARTIN, Mr John, Research and Policy Officer, Queensland Council of Unions (QCU) MORRISON, Dr Stephen, State President, Australian Salaried Medical Officers’ Federation Queensland, Industrial Organisation of Employees (ASMOFQ) O’SHANESY, Ms Jo, Communities, Child Safety and Disability Services Delegate, Together Queensland ROYLE, Dr Suzanne, State Vice President, Australian Salaried Medical Officers’ Federation Queensland, Industrial Organisation of Employees (ASMOFQ) SCOTT, Mr Alex, Branch Secretary, Together Queensland SPRECKLEY, Mr John, Senior Industrial Officer, United Firefighters Union of Australia Queensland (UFUAQ) THOMAS, Mr Michael, Director (Observer), Together Queensland TURNBULL, Dr Christopher, State Management Committee Member, Australian Salaried Medical Officers’ Federation Queensland, Industrial Organisation of Employees (ASMOFQ) CHAIR: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I declare open this public hearing of the Finance and Administration Committee’s inquiry into the Industrial Relations (Restoring Fairness) and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2015. I am Di Farmer, the chair of the committee and the member for Bulimba. The other members of the committee are: Mr Michael Crandon, our deputy chair and member for Coomera; Ms Verity Barton, the member for Broadwater; Mr Craig Crawford, the member for Barron River; Mr Pat Weir, the member for Condamine; and Mr Duncan Pegg, the member for Stretton. At some point we will be joined by Mr Ian Walker, the member for Mansfield and the shadow Attorney-General—he has just arrived—and shadow minister for justice and industrial relations and the arts. The purpose of this hearing is to receive additional information from submitters about the bill that was referred to the committee on 7 May 2015. This hearing is a formal proceeding of the parliament and is subject to the Legislative Assembly’s standing rules and orders. The committee will not require evidence to be given under oath, but I remind you that intentionally misleading the committee is a serious offence. Thank you for your attendance today. The committee appreciates your assistance. You have previously been provided with a copy of the instructions for witnesses, so we will take those as read. Hansard will record the proceedings and you will be provided with the transcript. This hearing will also be broadcast. I also remind witnesses to speak into the microphones. Obviously, with so many of you we may need to do a little manoeuvring. I remind all those in attendance at the hearing today that these proceedings are similar to parliament to the extent that the public cannot participate in the proceedings. In this regard, I remind Brisbane - 1 - 25 May 2015 Public Hearing—Inquiry into the Industrial Relations (Restoring Fairness) and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2015 members of the public that under the standing orders the public may be admitted to or excluded from the hearing at the discretion of the committee. We are running this hearing as a round table forum to facilitate discussion. However, only members of the committee can put questions to witnesses. If you wish to raise an issue for discussion, I ask you to direct your comments through the chair. I also request that mobile phones be turned off or switched to silent mode. I remind you that no calls can be taken in the hearing room. The committee is familiar with the issues you have raised in your submissions and we thank for the detailed submissions that you have provided to us. The purpose of today’s hearing is to further explore aspects of the issues you have raised in the submissions. I now invite each of you to make a brief opening statement if you wish to avail yourself of that opportunity. The committee has a number of questions it wishes to put to you and there will be opportunities for you to make additional points throughout the hearing. Could I ask that you limit your opening statements to three minutes maximum. If you would like to introduce the other members from your organisation, we would appreciate that. I start with the Chamber of Commerce and Industry. Mr Behrens: I am Nick Behrens, the Director of Advocacy appearing on behalf of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry Queensland. The CCIQ welcomes the opportunity to provide feedback to the committee on the Industrial Relations (Restoring Fairness) and Other Legislation Amendment Bill. The Queensland business community has a strong right to be heard on this issue, contributing at least $8.1 billion through payroll tax, land tax, stamp duties and motor vehicle registration. That equates to about 65 per cent of total state taxation revenue. Approximately 44 per cent of the state’s operating costs are portioned as employee or superannuation expenses. Accordingly, the nexus between business taxes and the state budget’s employee expenditure is strong. The CCIQ is highly supportive of the state government’s current fiscal strategy that includes maintaining an operating surplus across the economic cycle and paying down state debt by $12 billion over the next 10 years. However, CCIQ has significant concerns that, if this is bill passed in its current form, it will undermine government efforts to achieve the above fiscal outcomes. The CCIQ is strongly supportive of the objective to require the QIRC to give consideration to the state’s financial position and fiscal strategy when determining wage negotiations. Indeed, Queensland businesses are required to look closely at their own expenditure to ensure they remain profitable and viable, and the Queensland government should be no different. The overall trend in Queensland finances in recent years has been one of improvement driven by restraint in recurrent spending, and we do not wish to see this progress discontinued. Failure to prudently manage recurrent expenditure would threaten the sustainability of our public finances over the medium term. That would damage the economy’s competitiveness through the prospect of having to increase business taxes. This is an outcome that must be avoided. The CCIQ has the highest regard for our state’s public servants and does not oppose wage increases generally. However, any adjustment needs to be with the lens of affordability. Accordingly, the CCIQ is supportive of the objective in the current act being retained to ensure the state’s financial position and fiscal strategy are taken into consideration by the QIRC when determining wage outcomes. The CCIQ also raises concerns that the outsourcing practices that allow for boosted productivity and efficiency within the provision of services to the Queensland community are also threatened by this bill. In short, there should be no ideological predisposition for or against outsourcing and the potential abandonment of this practice as posited within the bill would additionally undermine the state government’s fiscal strategy, as well as damaging the Queensland business community. Accordingly, this should be resisted. I look forward to taking your questions. Thank you. CHAIR: The Queensland Council of Unions? Mr Battams: Good morning. I have with me Mr John Martin, our research and policy officer. The QCU is a peak union body in Queensland. There are approximately 380,000 union members in Queensland from the last report from the Queensland Industrial Relations Commission register. In my couple of minutes, I want to turn the clock back and revisit some of the industrial relations legislation passed by the previous government, because that forms a basis for this bill being necessary. The first change occurred with the Industrial Relations (Fair Work Harmonisation) Act. Obviously, the Orwellian language here tried to convince people that there was somehow a connection between that bill and the Fair Work Act. Our contention would be that that bill cherry picked the most advantageous aspects of fair work legislation for the employer and disregarded anything in the Fair Work Act that was advantageous to employees. Brisbane - 2 - 25 May 2015 Public Hearing—Inquiry into the Industrial Relations (Restoring Fairness) and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2015 In terms of fiscal position and fiscal strategy, the Industrial Relations Commission has always taken account of arguments by the employer, being the government, in relation to their financial position. We particularly opposed the commission having to take account of the government’s fiscal strategy. Fiscal strategy is often based on ideology or philosophy. It is often a political strategy, closely linked to public debate around politics, and we could see no reason why fiscal strategy of the government would have to be taken into account. Further, the requirement that the commission could get the Treasury chief to brief the QIRC without the opportunity for unions to cross-examine that person’s position was also opposed by us. In terms of the second bill, the Public Service and Other Legislation Amendment Bill, this amendment bill was specifically introduced because the government was facing an uphill battle in terms of some of its policy positions. In this bill, they were able to carry legislation that allowed ministerial directives to override what had previously been agreed between government departments and unions in relation to employment security and contracting out.