Friday, 10th December, 1954 LOK SABHA DEBATES
VOLUME IX, 19s4 · (6th to 24th.. December 1954)
EIGHTII SESSION, 1954
LOK SABHA SBCRETARIAT NEW DELHI CONTENTS (Vol.IX, Nos. 16-32- 6th to 24th Oe<:cmber,1954) No. 16--Monday, 6th December,19.54- 0eathof Shri Girja Shankar Bajpai 1917-18 Motionfor adjournment- Bank employees'strike 1918-25 Messages from the Rajya Sabha 1925-26 Code of Criminal Procedure (Amendment)Bill -Petitionreceived 1926 Correction of answer to supplementaryquestion on Starred QuestionNo. r468 1926--27 Committee on Absenceof Members from the Sittingsof the Hou�- Sixth Report-Adopted 1927-29 C'.ode of Criminal Procedure (Amendment}Bill Consideration of clauses-Not concluded 1929-2a42 Clauses 66 10 80 19,1-41 Clauses 81 to 88 1941--86 Clauses 89 to 96 and 98 to 102 1986-2042 . 17-Tuesday, 7th Dtc.,11hff-,1954- Rusiness of the House- Order of GovernmentBusiness for the remaining partof the Session · Code of CriminalPro«dure (Amendment) BiU- Considention of clauses-Concluded • 2044-2156 Clause 22 , 2044-59 Clauses 89 to 96 and 98 to 102 &Q.i New Clause 93A 2059-2114 Clauses 103 to II3 and 115;116, the Schedule, New Clause 115A and Clauses 1 & 2, ...... • • 2114-56 Motion to pass-s amended-Not concluded 2156--58 Dr. Katju 2156 Shri Data, 57 2156-. 18-Wedt1uday, 8th Deumber, 19.54- >apen laid on the Table-- Statisticalinformation re: Preventive Detention Act 2159 Declarations of exemptionunder Registration of ForeignersAct ..21 59-60 Report of RehabllitatiooFinance Administration 2161 PreventiveDetention (Amendment)Bill Petition presented, • 2161 Committee on Private Members' Bills and Resolutions-Seventeenth Report presented 2161 Messaae from President of Grand NationalAssembly of Turkey 2161--62 Code of Criminal Procedure(Amendment) Bill-Passed as amciided 216%-2232 Shri M.A. Ayyangar 2162-71 Shri A. M. Thomaa 2171-77 Shri H. N. Mw:eriee 2177-116 Shri S. S. More 2186-90 ShtiDatar 2190--98 PanditTbalcur Das Bharpva 2198-2209 Shri N. C. Chatterjee 220!>-14 Shri R. D. Misra 2214-20 Dr. Katiu 2221-32 (ii)
HinduMinoriry and Guardianship Bill- Colwn,u. Motion to nominateMembers co Joint Comrnittee--Not concluded · · 22;µ,-76 Shri Patul:u 2231-41 Shri V. G. Deshpande 22.43-57 Shri Tek Chand. 22S�4 Shri B. C. D1s 2264-71 Shrimati Jayuhri 2272-73 Shri D. C. Sharma 2273-76 No. 19-Thkrsday, Deumbu,9th 1954- Moticnfor Adjournmcru- Violation of Indian, Territory by anned Portugue•e soldier$ ind kidnapping an Indian villager u77-79 Indian Tarrilf(Third Amendme,u) Bill-Introduced 2279 HinduMinority and Guardianship BUI- Motion to nominateMembcn to Joint Committee-Adopted 228o-236o Shri D. C. Sharma • 2280-84 Shrimati SucbctaKripalani · . 2284-92 Shri N. C. Chatte� u92-2310 Shri Bogawat 2311-18 Pandit ThakurDas Bharp,·a 2318-34 Shri P. Subba Rao 2334-43 Shrilnati UmaNehru 2344-46 Sardar Iqbal Singh 234�48 Shri Patasbr 2348-59 Preventive Detention (Amendment)mu- Motion to con.sider··· Not concluded 236o-z408 Dr. lutju. 236�3 Shri A. K. Gopalan 2399 Sbri Dcthpande 2399 Shri T. K. Chaudhuri ShriM. S. Gurupaduwamy No. �Friday, 101/1 D«ember, 1954- Papcrlaid on the Table- Notification underStt Customs Act Preventive Detention(Amendment) Bill- Motion to consider- -Not cxmcludcd 2409-74 Shri A. K. Gopalan 2410-27 Shri G. H. Dcthpande 2'27-3S Shri Veeraswamy 2435-39 Shri AsokaMebt.1 243�r SbriM. P.Mishra 245147 Shri V. G. Deshpande 2458-66 Shri Tel< Chand 2466-69 Shri N.M. Lillill,ll'I •. 2469-74 Committee on PrivateMcmbcn' Bills and Resolutions Fifteent h Repon-Adopted Seventeenth Rcpon-Adoptcd Code of Criminal Procedure (Amendment) Bill (/,umion of ntw S«1ion 109A) lnttod11ced . Army (Amelldmun) Bill (/ns1r1im1oj ,J Shri Dabhi Dr. P.S. Deshmukh Indian Arms (Amendmrot) Bill (Amendment of Seaiom I and 26 ete.)- Morion to ftfer to Select Commiuce ,Adjourned ,,,.,die 2192-2513 Shri U. C. Pamaik 2492-2502 Dr. Ka1ju 2503 Shrimati IlaPalchoudhury 2504-05 Th. l..akshmanSingh Chuak 2.505-<>9 Shri KanavadePatil . 2509-12 Women's and Cluldren's nI stitutions Licensing llill- Motion 10 consider-Not cuncludcd 2513-.l4 13- 34 ShrilT\1tiUma Nehru 25r3-14 2513- 14 Shri Pataskar 2515-17 Shrimati Sushama Sen 2517, 2520-21 Shrimati JaY2shri 2517-18 Shrimaii A. Kale 2;18-19 Shrima-49 Shri R. C. Sh..;.m• 2641>-s6 Shri SanngadharDas 2656-63 PanditThakur Dass Bhari:av; 26<;3-76 ShriH. N. Muketjec 2676 (iv) No. u-Monday, tJth D«emlur, 1954-- Column.,. Modons for adjournmcnt- Retrmchment of sepoy clerks of Army Ordnance Corp• 26-17-79 Tncedy io NewtonChil No. z.1-Triuday, 14th V.u,nbor, 19H l'apers laid on the Table- Appropriation Acccuntsof the DefenceServices, 1952-53 .Commercial Appendix 10 the Appropriation Accountsof the Defence Services, 1952-53 Audit Report, Defence Services,19S4 . Corttaionof answer to StarredQuestion No. 862 Businessof the House- Statement r,. orderof Government business 211<>4-05 Tea(Second Amendment) Bill -Motion to consider-Adopted 28o540 Shri T. T. Kri1hnamachari 2��-07, 2826-30 Shri Tusbar Chatterjca 2807-12 Shri N. M. Liogam 2812-14 Shri Barman 2814-16 Slui K. P. Tripathi 2816-20 Shri A. M. Thomas 2ij2C-22 Slui twn.chandtaReddi 2821,-23 Shri Damodua Menon 2824-2 Shrl K. C. Sodhi• 2825-· Shri Pwmoose 2@ Clauses1 and2 283� Motion to pau, u .amendcd--Adopted . 2831-· Shri T. T. Krilhnamachari �t (v) Columns. Iadian ,Tarrifl'(Third A 'llmdrncot)BW- Motion to consider-Adopted 2832-67 Shri Kanungo 2&µ-36, 2861-67 Shri V.P. Nayar 2836-43 Shri Tubidas 2843-46 Dr. La.ob Sundaram 28�6-50 Shri Jhunjhunwala 2850-52 Shri A. M. Thomas 2852-57 Shri Kasliwal 2857-59 Shri V. B. Gandhi '/ 2859-61 ·Clausei 1 and 2 2867-68 Motion to pass-Adopted 2868-74 Sbri Kanungo · 2868-69 Dr. Lanka Sundaram 2869 Shri T. T. ·Krishnamachari . • • . o.r . .. • r .. •• 2869-74 lpdusuial Disputes (Amendment) B1U-·Mot1on to coos,der-Adopted 2875-29Co Shri KhandubhaiDesai 2875-76, 2897-290:, Shri Amjad Ali 2876-;8 Sb.tiBimlsprosad Chaliha 2878-80 Shri Punnoose 288:-84 Shri B. S. Murthy 288;-86 Shri Velayudhan 2886-88 Shri Keshavaiengar 2888 Shri P. C. Bose 2888-89 Shri K. P. Tripath.i 2889-93 Shri S. V.Ramaswamy 2893-96 Th. Jugal I 1245 1246 LOK SABHA Civil treasury. It has not been pos sible to establish any threat to the Friday, 10th December^ 1954 Postmaster. IJTTo ^0 ¥r^ : 3tTsrJT WTW The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the ^ T?r arfSoW? ^ ^ ^ Clock, [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] ?nr ! wRfsyv arttrorV^ fW ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ^ 115 ^ ^ w>TT «TT*n anpimnr 4" isA HTW 4 fff •jIH^'i/} JT^ qwo frWt : WT ^ f ^ ^ 3fn?TT ^ fflfTT ^ 3RTR ^ Pp* %o ifto 4 ^ 5ti4 ^ itR rsr (^) ^ aroin ^ srfV ^ ?hft i »ft ^0 ^0 ftrW : ^ 5^ «iT^ ^ (clif mftnf ^ ^ srr^iVr ^ % m flTTsf w f«ran ^ Tiff f ? nw : jf 5^ firm (^) ft, eft WT i^vp: ftt ^ «riW fam «ri ^ ffto ?m»>n ^ arRfk f, wrmi ^ atrrfk TTV ^ 4^ % 'S|H ^ I ^ iTv^TR 3n*RT 5 5 ^Tf iflww iPr fnrey^ ahrf *f «<'»)*< ^-*iT? vnr ^ (»r) wr «rff % ^ % % IFF % 3Pt tsmvRTT ij'tWvi Post and Telegraph Complaints Orga know the amount of money for nisation; which the postal employees were in volved during this year for commit (b) the number of complaints re ting fraud on the posUl aeparinientr ceived during 1954, so far; and Shri Raj Bahadur: I do not have (c) whether any cases of fraud were the break-up according to the classes alio dealt with by this organisation of the culprits or the accused. I have during this period? only got an analysis about the number The Deputy Minister of Communica of pending cases. The number of tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) 44,586 pending cases of fraud all over India (Fortyfour thousand, five hundred is 4,139 and the number of cases pend and eightysix); ing Investigation with the department for over 6 months is 1,656. (b) 4,35,672 (Four lacs, thirtyfive thousand six hundred and seventy- Sardar Hukam Singh: I had asked two). for the amount! Anyway. I will ask another question. May I know whe (c) Yes. ther any cases of favouritism to or Sardar Hukam Singh: I find from harassment of, the subordinate staff, the report that on the 31st December by the gazetted officers of the postal 1953, the number of pending com and telegraph department have been plaints was 26,000. This has increas brought to notice? ed to 44,000 during this year. May I know whether they could not be dis Shri Raj Bahadur: The Complaints posed of speedily or the number of Organisation deals with public com cases was great? plaints. As a matter of fact, cases of favouritism to or harassment of, sub Shri Raj Bahadur: There has been ordinate staff by superior officers or a reorganisation of the complaints or officials are departmental cases and ganisation. Formerly this work was dealt with by departmental officers. done circle-wise. Now, it has been Lbmon-Grass brought under unified control under h •999. Shri V. P. Nayar: Will the Director of Complaints attached to the Directorate. I am giving the total Minister of Food and Agriculture be pleased to state: number of complaints all over the <’ountry; it is, as I just now said, (a) whether Government have con 4,35,672 from 1-1-54 to 30-11-54. The sidered the possibility of manufactur number of complaints disposed of so ing lonones and of the synthesis of far in 1954 is 4,27,838 and the number Vitamin A from Lemon grass (Cymbo- of cases pending on 1-12-54 is 44,586. pogon Flexuosus and other snecies); and Sardar Hukam Singh: What was the amount of money involved in the (b) if so. what are the estimated an fraud cases that were brought to light nual requirements of lonones and during this period? Vitamin A in India? Shri Raj Bahadur: 1 can give the The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. number of fraud cases. The balance S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. on 31-12-53 was 10,587. I am sorry I will not be able to give the amount (b) A statement is placed on the involved. Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Ap pendix IV, annexure No. 58.] Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know whether postal employees were con Shri V. P. Nayar: In view of the cerned in the commission of fraud or fact that in recent years—in 1952, 1953 there were outsiders as well? If out and 1954—the export price of lemon siders were also involved, could I grass oil has suffered several falls at 1249 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1250 several times, may I know whether oil that will remain after the extra^- Government have considered the de- tion of the active principles of Vitamin sirabilitj of manufacturing articles A* because there are other cheaper out of lemon Rrass oil which we are oils available for the manufacturers of importing to the tune of several lakhs soap In this country. Therefore, it Is of rupees? not considered advisable to produce Vitamin A from rad Palm oil. * Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I am afraid the Commerce and Industry Minister Beggar Nuisance at Railway Stations will have to deal with it. *1000. Shri Krishnacharya Jnshi: Shri V. P. Nayar: I find in the Will the Minister of Railways be statement that for fortifying vanas- pleased to state: pati alone, according to the standard (a) whether Railway authorities are laid down by Government from the aware cf the beggar nuisance at Rail< 1st May 1955, the annual require way Stations; and ments of Vitamin A will be about 5 million I.U. May I know whether (b) if so, what steps have been Government have enquired into the taken to prevent the same? possibility of meeting at least a por tion of this enormous requirement of The ParBamentaiy Seeretary tofhe Vitamin A from lemon grass oil, the Minister of Railways and Tiraiisport prices of which suffer and tens of (Shri Shahnawas Khan): (a) Yes; thousands of cultivators and lemon at a number of stations beggars do grass oil manufacturers suffer as a gain unauthorised entry and causa In result of the fall in prices? convenience to passengers. Dr. P. S. Deehmukh: We are trying (b) All station staff Including tke to encourage the manufacture of Watch & Ward and the Travdling Vitamin A and lonones as much as Ticket Checking staff already have possible. But it would be for private strict instructions to prevent beggars •enterprise to come forward to exploit from entering the Railway Platforms it fully. and Trains, eject them when found and seek Police assistance where ne Shri V. P. Nayar; May I know whe cessary. The State Governments have ther Government have so far taken also been requested to give this mat any steps to manufacture Vitamin A ter their earnest attention and adopt which is a very vital requirement for such suitable measures as may re the industrial wealth of the country sult in a satisfactory solution. from indigenous sources like lemon ^ass oil, and if so, what has been the Shri Krishnadiarja Joshi: May 1 result? Could we not at least expect know whether these beggars enter that a major portion of the Vitamin A running trains to collect alms? requirement can, and will, be made In Shri Shahnawaz Khan: Some of India very shoi^tly? them might be doing that. The Minister in the Ministry of Mr. Speaker: It is a matter of ge Kataral Resources and Scientifle Be- neral knowledge. Everyone who tra searota (ShU K. D. Malaviya): May I vels knows it. answer that question? An attempt i< being made to produce Vitamin A In our laboratories by the synthetic method from B-ionone of lemon grass oil. because it has been found that synthetic Vitamins are better, and cheaper to produce. So far as Vitamin A from red Palm oil is concerned, the difficult problem is to diq;>08e of the 125J Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 19S4 Oral Answers 125 have already stated, we will import one million tons of foodgrains and wo aiR 3TH3 f aift ^ am? will have, by the end of December, li fir fTT'P WIW ^ ^ 3T^W it I million tons of foodgrains as reserve. All AHdAr: May I know taow Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know ikey are allowed to come on the plat- if reports from State Governments Jorm without platform tickets at the have been invited on the point whe- time of the arrival of trains? tiier the removal of these control* has not resulted in the increase of Mr. Speaker: 1 think we need not prices anywhere? parsue that question. Food Controls Shri M. V. Krishnappa: We never expected that the removal of restric *1001. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the tions would raise the prices. In fact^ Minister of Food and Asriculture be it was to bring down the prices and pleased to state: to bring about normal conditions in (a) what restrictions and controls the country that we did it. exist still on food; and Reclamation Cost (h) ^hen they ^1H be rinxovedT •1002. Shri Dabhi; Will the Minister the DepiUj Minister of Food Mid of Food and Agriculture be pleased to JUdcaUiue (Slui M. V. JMahmypa): state the steps taken or proposed to ^ V? «T3I1 ?w ^ f^T^nr # f*v gf 5*iT?T i^au t fsppiw ^ »T?iwr fWT t ^r^FtiT I frrterq »p? ^ ^ ^ ? W} fro Dr. P. S. Desbmukh: They have al ^ftwT fim n mr-vr ready been reduced. ♦ ♦ ?oo^. «ftir«HRn|: WT ^Nrrt fnrwrWf ^ vw mjr *wt 6 nnv fW »R The Deputy Minister of Communi The Deputy Minister of Communi cations (Shrl Raj Bahadur): 2076 cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) (1012 cases in 1952-53 and 1064 cases Erection of the line is in progress. in 1953-54). (b) Before 31st March, 1955. (i) All cases are investigated, in vestigation being complete in some Price of sugar cane cases and in process in respect of 1 :hera. •1007. Shri Gidwani: Will the Minis ter of Food and Agriculture be pleas (il) 264 (89 in 1962-53 and 175 in ed to state: 1953-54.) (iii) 270 (120 in 1952-53 and 150 in (a) whether it is a fact that a new 1053-54.) formula for linking the price of sugar cane with the earnings of sugar fac ^ ^ : HH-fk ^ tories has been worked out bv Govern ment; and ^ ^ *?I5^ ^hiT ^ ^15 5 H vVHr vVbr (b) if so. the nature nt the formula ^ I |"5w *T*(t VRW ffli y? Hrar evolved? wfk ^ *rt*r «n arnw «irn# The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. f ? S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. 1^55 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1256 (bX A copy of the formula is laid Oilseeds Committee. The Planning on the Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Commission recommended the levy of Appendix IV, annexure No. 59.] an additional cess of annas eight per md. on mill oil under the Indian Oil Shri Gidwani: Are Government seeds Committee Act, 1946. The Com aware that the owners of sugar fac mission’s suggestion was considered tories also run their own godowns in by the Indian Central Oilseeds Com big cities for the sale of their sugar mittee and they recommended the and that they show the sale price of imposition of an additional cess of sugar at a much lower rate than it is one anna per md. on mill oil lor the actually sold at these ^jodtowns? first five years and two annas jzer md. Dr. P, S. Deshmukh: We have no thereafter. specific report on this matter but possibly it might be correct. (b) The Government of India pro pose to set ,up an expert Committee to> Shri Gidwani: What machinery is go into the entire question of oilseeds Government, therefore, going to evolve crushing Industry, crushing by Ghanif to ensure that the correct recovery as well as by Oil Mills, and to make of sugar is shown in the records of recommendations to the Government the mill owners? regarding the lines on which the future Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: We take all development of the oilseeds crushing factors into consideration. If the mis industry should take place. This chief is brought to our notice, we Committee will also examine, amongst shall pursue the matter. • other things, whether there is a case for the levy of an additional cess on Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: May mill oil. I know on what basis different rate of Shri Sodhia: How long will Gov sharing of prices have been fixed fot ernment take to finalise the whole different regions and whether some thing? of the regions have asked for en hanced share of sugar cane prices? Dr. F. S. Deshmukh: Sir. the Com mittee is expected to report in about Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: There are no 2i months. Thereafter, some time different prices so far as the minimum may be necessary to decide. is concerned; it is the same through out India. Shri Sodhia: Is any subsidy being^ given at present by the Government Cess on Oils to the honey industry? ♦1009. Shri K. C. Sodhia: Will the Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: The Khadi and Minister of Food and Agricnltiire be Village Industries Board makes some pleased to state: recommendations and funds are allotted for the purpose of encourag (a) whether it is a fact that the ing the honey industry. Central Oil Seeds Committee mnde a recommendation for the levy of an Shri Dabhi: May I know the per- additional cess on the oroduction of sonnel of the Committee? all oils in the power mills in order to Dr. P. S. Destomukh: I am afraid I give protection to the Village Oil in have not it here. dustry; and Mr. Speaker: We shall go to the (b) if so, the decision taken there next question. on? Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: Sir, I have The Minister of Africulture (Dr. P. got it; may I read it out? S. Deshmukh): (a) The proposal for an additional levy on mill oil did Mr. Speaker: I have already called not emanate from the Indian Central the next question. 1257 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Otal Answers 1258 The Deputy Minister of CommumU Russian Tractors cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) and *1012. Shri Gadllinfana Gowd: Will (b). A statement giving the required the Minister of Food and Afrkaltore information is laid on the Table of the be pleased to refer to the reply Lok Sabha. [See Appendix IV, given to starred question No. 1096 annexure No. 60.] on the 17th September, 1954 and state: (c) The arrears are mainly In respect of Government connections. (a) whether Government have put Recovery in case of Government sub the Russian tractors into operation scribers is usually made by book and have tested their usefulness; adjustment and the transaction is (b) if so, the opinion of technical considered as an inter-Departmental authorities in this regard; and or Governmental adjustment. The adjustment of revenue on an inter (c) the procedure to be followed by Departmental basis without a penalty the agriculturists for their import? for non-payment or delay in pa3nnent has perhaps resulted in the accumu The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. lation of outstandings. ^ 8. Deshmukh): (a) and (b). The four Russian tractors are undergoing test (d) All possible steps are being trials at Delhi and Bhopal and the taken for the realisation of telephone final report about the utility of these revenue outstandings. An Accounts tractors under Indiari conditions is Officer on Special Duty has been expected to be submitted to Govern appointed for thi.s purpose. A meeting ment shortly. of the jepresentatives of various Ministries is being convened. (c) The procedure for their further import would be decided after the No target date by which these report of test trials is received. accounts are expected to be closed Shri Gadilingana^Gowd: When were can be given, these tractors received in this country? Shri Sarangadhar Das: May i know,, Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: ' They came if in view of the fact that there is about three to four months back, such a big balance outstanding against at the most. Government departments, the balance against private people also continues Arrears of Telephone Revenues because they feel that if the Govern *1013. onn Sarangadhar Das: Will ment departments are not paying in the Minister of Communications be time, they also need not have to pay? pleased to state: Shrt Raj Bahadur: It is not the (a) the amount of arrears of tele same in case of non-govemment phone revenues outstanding in the agencies. In case of Government de beginning of each financial year from partments it is only a matter of book 1947-48 to 1954-55; adjustment and the department can (b) the percentage of the outstand wait in their case. As a matter of ing dues from Government Depart fact the revenues earned ai^ shown ments, and the percentage from and we know that this much has been members of the public; earned by the department for the service rendered to private agencies (c) the reasons for such inordinate and users and this much for service (?elay in collections; and to '^O’^emment departments. (d) the steps Government propose to take to expedite collection and the Shri Sarangadhar Das: Does it take target date by which they expect to then so long to make these book close thifl account? adjustments? 1259 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1260 ^ BaJ Babaditr: Yes, Sir; be> (b) Yes, in a small way. cause the bills are checked as to (c) Approximately Rs. 9:5 crores for whether Uie calls have been made tor the whole scheme covering nearly strictly government purposes or not. 2^300 miles of cable length. Each department has to satisfy itself about that. Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinba: May 1 Shrl A. M. Thomafl; May I enquire know what are the places where this scheme has already been under whether it has come to the notice of operation? Government that inordinate delay is being caused in the submission of S'hri Raj Bahadur; Bombay-Thana bills, both trunk and ordinary calls, and Calcutta-Asansol. At Bombay- to customers concerned, and if so, Thana it is complete and at Calcutta- what steps Government have taken in Asansol it is being laid. this connection? Even bills to Mem bers of Parliament are submitted Shrimati Ta^eshwarl Slnha: May 1 after three or four months. know, in view of the fact that for most Shrl Sarangadhar Das: Three or of these under-ground cables we have four years. to depend cn foreign countries, whe ther Government consider it desirable Shri Raj Bahadur: There have been to open a factory to produce these complaints about delay in the sub under-ground cables? mission of bills; but, we try to see that the bills are accurate. As a matter of Shrl BaJ Bahadur: We have already fact, formerly there was one central establishei a factory at Mahijan and system of telephone revenue account it has gone into production. ing, but now we are decentralising it. Shrimati Tarkeshwari Slnha: What For example we have bifurcated the is the production target fixed for that Delhi office and a new telephone re factory prodlicing these under-ground venue accounting office has been calDles? opened in Nagpur. We propose to open more, so that the work may be Shri Raj Bahadur: I cannot give it distributed. from memory as to what is the target, but very soon it will be able to meet our demands. Telegraph and Telephone Wires *1014. Shrimati Tarkeshwari Slnha: Catering on Railways Will the Minister of Communlcatloiis ♦1017. Shri Dhusiya: Will the Minis, be pleased to state: ter of Railways be pleased to state: (a) whether a scheme to replace overhead telegraph and telephone (a) the general policy of giving lines with underground cable, has contract to various contractors to sell been evolved by Government; sweetmeats, betel-leaf, tea and fruit etc; (b) whether this scheme has been executed in any part of the coun (b) whether the auction is conduct try so far; and ed in the Head Office or on th« various Railway Stations; and (c) the estimated cost involved in this scheme? (c) how it is advertised? The Demity Miaiater of Commimiea- The Parliamentary Secretary to the tions (Shrl Ba| Bahadar): (a) A Minister of Railways and Transport scheme is under consideration for lay (Shrl Shalmawas Khan): (a) At large ing long distance under-ground cables stations, including important Junc- to connect important cities in the tioTus and big terminal stations, such country.. contracts are given on licensing system lajSi Oral Answers 10 DECJCMBSR 1954 Oral Answers 1262 to suitable professional and experienc Siirl Shabnawaz Kfiant We do not ed caterers of flood standing. At other work out the percentage of profits of stations these are norrr»ally licensed the contractors. A certain licence fee out to local professional men, includ is charged keeping in view the net ing experienced displaced caterers or profits of the contractors. vendors settied in the area. Other Shri Dhusiya: One question more..... things being equal, preference is given to displaced pjprsons and re Mr. Speaker: We will go to the next gistered Co-operative Societies, and question. as between thesp two categories, to the former. The ability to provide service of n high standard is of prime consideration in the award of these contracts. (b) Auctioning of these contracts is not resorted to, either at stations or I in the Head Office. The license fee is predetermined on the basis of vending prospects and the contracts are given on the basis of applications received, each such application being carefully scrutinised to ascertain the applicant’s ^ snrm : ^ptt ability to perform the work satisfac torily. ^ fjqr ftr (c) Applications are invited by advertisement in press in the case of % ^ ^s nrfi f t ? more important contracts and by means of notices posted on station The Deputy Minister of RaUways premises for the smaller contracts. and Trattfloart (Shri Ala^esan): Com pared with a target production of 36 Shri Dhuslya: What are the more locomotives 46 have been completed important contracts and how are they between 1st April, 1954 to 30th advertised—whether it is done in September, 1954 and this outturn com local papers, or in regional papers or pares with a total production of 64 in the office on the notice board? during the whole of 1953-54. Shri Shahnawaz Khaa: The more important contracts are contracts at ^ qr? ^ it, bigger stations like Howrah, Moghul- ^ ^ f ^ irfVw ifTf? Sarai and places like Lucknow. The ^ f ? advertisements are given in the local papers as well ay in papers of an All Shri Alagesan: Does he refer to im India nature. ported items? Shri Dhnsiya: My question was: Mr. Speaker: Yes; whether It is 80 what are the more important articles per cent., 85 per cent or 90 per cent, for which advertisement is made? and what is the percentage of indi genous manufacture? Shri Shahnawaz Khan: It is not a question of articles, it is a matter of Miri .Alacesan: I may, say, Sir, that important stations. out of a total of 5,335 components as many as 4,475 are manufactured by Kumari Annie Masearene: May I Chittaranjan and another 760 are pro know wnat percentage of the gain on cured from indigenous manufacturers contracts is given to the Govern* Only 90 items are imported from ab ment? road. 1263 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1964 Oral Answers 1264 Shri K. C. Sodhia; What is the per «T «n <-e-K8 inrw ^ »rw it» centage price of these 90 imported MemsT ^ ^ iWw fr^jT »i^ it ^l^3R• ^ ajft ^ f i Shri Alagesan: The percentage may t>e a little more than what the number 8, ol items represent. As it is, 1 am not ihsrtrhiH, Hknr-ypT ^ if able to give the actual percentage of cost; it is not much. irhnr ^ wt # *PTT *fVr «ft rto ifto n» : JT «ii *n?i7r (n) WT ^ f%f*r «TRT ^nrwT 5rt 3FT7fsR sn^ sft fwW SI SHT 9S! arww ^ *r^ ? i ? Railway Wagons Mr. SpeaJier: It may include wagons, or the congestion in the station. I am *1031. Shri Amjad All: WiU the going to the next question. Minister of Railways be pleased to state: Indian Farm Boys (a) whether any representation for •1032, Shri Ram Dass: Will the the allotment of more wagons has been Minister of Food and Agriculture be received from the National. Chamber pleased to state: of Commerce and Industries, Agra; (a) the number of Indian Farm (b) whether it is a fact that the Boys who have recently returned from movement of gur and pulses is U.S.A.; and receiving a serious set back in Agra due to the shortage of wagons; and (b) the nature of training they have received in that country? (c) if so, the action taken or pro posed to be taken by Government on The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. the above representation? P. S. Deshmukh): (a) 23 Indian Farm Boys have already returned from The Deputy Minister of Railways U.S.A; 2 more are on their way to and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a; India. Yes. A representation dated 26-11-54 (b) They have received training In was received by the Central Railway all the agricultural operations, like complaining of a serious set-back in the ploughing, manuring, harvesting, hay movement of pulses. making etc. They have also studied (b) Due to heavy accumulation of the structure and working of the vari wagons routed to south via Bezwada ous young farmers’ organisations, e.o. and viz. Raichur, restriction had to be 4'H Clubs, etc. * imposed on loading for some days Jn November 1954. This naturally affect • fw : ^ 5tT5T traTiTT fsp ed the clearance of traffic from Agra. HRrt® ? • • (c) Restriction was removed from iro ^0 irwo 28th November 1954 and from 29th November, 1954 to 6th December, 1954 as many as 51 wagons were load ed at Agra. The outstanding indents >nn : ^ »}“ of pulses were 9 wagons. These were registered on or after 3rd December, itit ? 1954 and are expected to be cleared in due course, »ro «fto Shri T. B. Vittol Rao; May I know I out of the 11,000 wagons to be pro cured in the current year, how many <11*! 4 Vumi : T«iT if' we were able to procure from indi ^ W* my? genous manufacture up to the end of November 1954? artf »^3tT »rai ?rr^>n ^ Shri Alagesan: How does it arise out of this Question? I do not see any T3HFT ^ ronnection. ^ »^3r ? Mr. Speaker A representation was wo ^0 inro ; rf ^ fW received from the National Chamber of Commerce. Shri T. B. Vlttal Rao: For more wa£ons. • it T'T ^ URIT it I ia$7 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBSSt 1854 Oral Answers 1268 Shri K. K. Basu: They do not under Iff fl W Now, I am gMng to the next ques qnw ^ ^ tion mi t ? IRRIQATION FACIUTIES IN PUNJAB Dr. P. S. Dephmukh: Some eftort is n034. Sardar Hukam Sing^i:. Will made to utilise their honorary services. the Minister of Food and Agriculture be pleased to state: Shri Veeraswamy: May 1 raise a point with your permission? May I (a) whether the Punjab Govern request you to suggest to the hon. ment have made a representation to Minister to reply in English even to the the Centre for providing irrigation supplementary questions that are put facilities to the scarcity districts in the in Hindi, so that we also may under State; and • stand? We Members coming from the South go without understandiJng what (b) it so, what irrigation facilities some hon. Members say in this House. are proposed to be provided for such areas? So, I humbly submit to you. wno are the custodian of this House, to see that The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. we also understand what is said in the P. S. Deshmukh): (a) and (b). Ves House. Sir. The representation is for financial assistance towards certain contour sur^ Mr. Speakw I think I am equally veys in the Gurgaon Distt. with a view the custodian of the Constitution also. to assess the possibilities of develop For Hindi being developed, whenever ing irrigation in that area. Under the H H question is tabled in Hindi, the financial rules governing grow more answer should be in Hindi, and when food schemes, such surveys are not nor ever a supplementary question is put mally assisted. The representation of in Hindi, the answer is to be In Hindi. the Punjab Government is, however, Shri V. P. Nayar: Provided the Minis still under consideration. The Govern ter Knows. ment of India have, however, sanction ed financial assistance for schemes in Mr. Speaker: He will try to know. scarcity areas of the Punjab as part of The option is given to the Minister to the grow more food programme, such answer in Emglish, but it is better that as, a loan of Rs. 3 lakhs for repairing he answers in Hindi if he possibly can. 8 bunds in Gurgaon district and a loan That is ho we are progressing. It of Rs. 6 lakhs for the repaid iid con may be that out of all the questions struction of kuhls in the Kanara and that are put and answered, some ques Kulu valley. tions may not be quite intelligible to Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know the Member, but he has to forego it in whether any plan has oeen submitted tne interest of advancing the practice as to how irrigation facilities for these of speaking in Hindi. Now I am going scarcity areas are to be developed or to the next question. ^ it is left to be decided afterwards whe- ttier they want to sink tube^wells or Shri Sarangadhar Daa: There are have irrigation by canals? Members who do not understand Eng lish and it is to their advantage to Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: In every one of make some questions put and answered •iiese proi>.>sals, we expect the State in Hindi. It is to assist the...... IJovemment to give us fnore or less 1*69 Oral Answers 10 DBCiaJBER 1954 Oral Answers 1270 detailed plans, but not very detailed of raw cashewnuts in the country the ones, giving us the indication of the ex production of which, according to the penditure as well as the utility. report of the Spices Enquiry Commit tee, is so low as 25 pounds per tree Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Is it now? a fact that the hon. Minister of Agri culture, the late Shri Raft Ahmad Kid- Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I am atraia l wai. was pleased to assure the Punjab cannot give the details of these sums. Government and some deputatlonigts that Rs. 2 crores will be available for Shri V. P. Nayar: May I Know whe irrigation for Gurgaon District for all ther the Government are aware that areas except Rewari, for which Rs. 50 the industry—the cashew-processing Ukhs were promised, and at the same industry—which depends upon raw nut time the promise was gl^ven that in the availability has so developed that now near future the construction of experi it is not possible to meet the require mental tube-wells in he Gurgaon Dis ments Oy indigenous production and trict will also be begun in 1954, in that We have to import about 5U to ttO stead of in 1956? per cent, of our requirements chiefly because the local production is very, Dr. P. S. Dethmukh; We will certain very low? May I know whether Goveni- ly do everything to respect the wishes ment have taken this fact into account of or whatever was promised by the and done an^hing to increase the pro late Shri Rafl Ahmed Kidwal, but duction of raw cashewnuts in this sometimes there are exaggerated country in order that the industry inav claims on this account. stand on its own footing? Shri D. C. Shanna: Is it not a fact Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: Yes: this i.- one that between the sanctioning of the of the objectives of the policy that the amount for these irrigation facilities in Government is pursuing, and th-it the districts to which the hon. Minis the reason why Rs. 2.5 lakhs are prt>- ter has referred and" the time of putt vided for this industry. ing them into effect, there is a very big gap, and that the progress of the Shri Velayudhan: Out of this amounc works is very very slow? ' If I may be that is spent for the development of permitted to say so, nothing has hap the cashewnut industry, how much Is pened so far. spem in the TravancoreCochin State which is one of the premier cashewnut Mr. Speaker: There is no question to producting States in India? be answered Dr. P. S. Deskmukli: I am sure jti Cashbwnut Industry adequate amount would be spent. ♦1036. SM V. P. Nayar; Wfll the Shri B. K. Das: What areas are being Minister of Food and Agrlcultnre be considered in respect of this industry? pleased to state: Dr. P. S. Deshmukli: We have sug (a) whether Government have set gested to the Governments of Travan- apart any specific amount in 1954 for core-Cochin, Madras, Bombay and undertaking developmental measures Madhya Bharat to submit concrete in fbm Cashewnut Industry; and schemes for the development of (b) if so, how much? cashewnut. The Mlnlflter of Agrienltove (0r. Family Planning P. S. Desbmiikh): (a) Yen. *1037. Shrt D. C. Sharma: Will the (b) Rs. 2.5 lakhs Minister of Health be pleased to state: Shri V. P. Nayar: May I know whe , (a) the names of the voluntary in ther out of this amount, any amount stitutions to which Government aid has been utnised for the development based on the recommendations of the 1271 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1054 Oral Answers 127Z Family Planning Research and Pro Shri K. K. Basu: May I know grammes Committee is sought to be whether the proportion of the grants given in the Punjab; made to the respective States is dependent on the fertility of the (b) the amount of aid that will be inhabitants of the respective States? given to them; and (c) the other ways in which Family Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: I do not Planning work is' being done in the l^now on what baais the States asked Punjab? for these grants, but those States that The Minister of Health (Rajkumari are anxious to do something and present a scheme that passes muster Amrit Kaur): (a) The Family Plan ning Association. Punjab, Simla. are given grants. (b) A grant-in-aid of Rs. 17,600/.- Messaob Rate System has already been sanctioned for the current year. *1038. Shri Krishnacharya Josbi: Will the Minister of CommunicatloiiB (c) A note containing the infor be pleased to state whether Govern mation is laid on the Table of the ment propose to extend the Message Lok Sabha. [See Appendix IV, Rate System to important cities where annexure No. 62.] this system is not in vogue? Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know The Deputy Minister of Communi what is the total amount of grants cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): Yes, sanctioned for the whole of India for gradually in important towns having this purpose and what is the pro Auto exchanges. portion of these grants given to the Punjab and the adjacent States? Shri Krishnacharya Joshi: May I know in how many cities this mes Rajkumari Amrit Kaur: According sage rate system has been introduced to the approved family planning pro so far? grammes. a sum of Rs. 30 lakhs has been set aside for the two years, Shri Raj Bahadur: 17. 1954-55 and 1955-56. Out' of this, Rs. 4,75,160 has already been sanc Shri T. B. VitUl Rao: May I know tioned and Rs. 4,21,421 is now before when this message rate system will the Planning Commission on the re be introduced in the two cities of commendation of the Committee and Hyderabad and Secunderabad? will shortly be sanctioned, I hope. Shri Raj Bahadur: In Hyderabad, it is already there, and it is in force Shri D. C. Sharma: Is it not a fact since the 16th May, 1954. that the family planning pro gramme is wholly of an academic Corruption Among Railway Staff value and it has not produced any practical results? *1039. Shri Dabhi: Will the Minis ter of Railways be pleased to refer Shrimati Sushamn i»en: May I to the reply given to starred question know what is the amount sanctioned . No. 1242 on the 22nd September, 1954 for Bihar and whether any arrange and state. ments have been made there? (a) whether the report of the Departmental Committee regarding the Eajkumari Amrit Kaur: I do not racket at Sulebhavi Station on the find the name of Bihar among the Southern Railway has since been sub States to which help has been given mitted to Government; and by the Government ol India, and I presume that Bihar* has not asked (b) if so. the main findings and for anything recommendations of the Committee? 1273 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1274 The Deputy Minister oi Railways breakage of the left leading trailing and TransiMMrt (Shrl O. V. Alagesan): wheel spring of the engine. (a) The Departmental Committee have submitted their report to the Regional > (b) The question does not arise as Officers concerned. no one was killed or injured. (b) The Departmental Committee have found one Guard, one Brakes /nan, three travelling Hamals, one Driver, First and Second Firemen and 1^0 Ijwo : Station Masters and Assistant Station Masters of Pachapur and Suldhal WT WT8T JT? Stations, guilty of serious misconduct, prr : but they have not made any recom mendations regarding punishment of (>p) wr sftr xm the staflf, which will be decided by V irr^R the regional officers. Shri Dabhi: May I know what action is going to be taken against ^ ^ ^ fwr those officers? Shri Alagesan: The report is before (w) lift ft, ?ft n the Regional Officers and they will WT »w t ? take suitable action against the staff concerned? The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. S. Deshmukh): (a) No. Train Acci (b) Does not arise. '*'1040. Th. Lakshman Singh Charak: Will the Minister of Railways be (a) whether a detailed report of the ni' ^ hii fsBTsnf ^ gRirifeq qtiWr inquiry held into the derailment of fWrnr inq ? 344 down Patna passenger train which took place on the 2nd May, 1954 has iTo lyrro s ift ff i since been received by the Railways; and inro ^0 ^ ^ (b) whether any compensation was paid to the victims? 5n ^ fw 5^ The Parliamentary Secretary to th^ m ^e> inro jmf?r Minister of Railways and Transport At about 20-59 hrs. un 11th April, What is the substance of these 1954 however, the engine of No. 344 schemes? Dn. Tatanagar-Patna Passenger train derailed between Ranchi Road and Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: There was a Chainpur stations on the Barkakana- report from the Crops and Soils Wing Gomoh section of the Eastern Rail of the Board of Agriculture and way. An enquiry was held by a Anhnal nusbandi^ made at their meet* Committee of senior officers of the ing at Indore held from 20th to 29th Eastern Railway. Their finding is March, 1952. so that the mechanised that the accident was due to the agriculture may be encouraged on a 127^ 1^75 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Oral Answers co-operative basis. This has been put (3) The loan will be sanctioned to the various State Governments, but» by the Government of India as 1 have already said, the progress from time to time as is slow. and when a request to this effect is received from the Shri T. S. A* Chettiar: May I know State Government.' whether, in order to encourage co (d) The Government of Saurashtra. operative agriculture. Government will give concessional rates? * ' Shri Gidwanl: May I know whether the expermient in Rajasthan proved Br. P. S. Dcshmukh: We have de successful in that respect, and if so, Tided what concessions to give. have you been able to stop the march Generally speaking, we have said that of the desert in that area? we will meet part of the expenditure on a Iministration. Dr. P. s. Deshmukh: There are various factors concerned with this Im mobilization of Kutch Desert experiment. Some of th^ ‘ have ♦1042. Shri Gidwanl: Will the Min certainly succeeded and others are ister of Food and Airrioultare be bound to succeed because we know pleased to state: * that we are acting on some definite knowledge. (a) whether it is a fact that Gov ernment have decided to finance a Shri Gidwani: May 1 know whether scheme for the immobilization of the plantation of trees will produce Kutch desert and coastal sands of more rain and thus, the afforestation Saurashtra; will lead to the stoppage of the march (b) the nature of the schemes; of ihe desert? (c) the terms on which the loan Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: There are some has been granted; and scientists who hold that view. (d) the names of the States to Pashabhai Implements which this grant has been made? *1044. Shri Sarangadnar Das: Will The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P the Minister of Food and Agriculture S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. be pleased to stjate: (b) The scheme aims at raising (a) the action taken on the findings plantation and shelter belts of of Shri Divatia Committee in regard Casurina, Prosopis Juliflora etc. on to the purchase and utilisation of the coast, on banks of water courses, agricultural implements from Messrs. road sides etc. Pashabhai Patel and Co.; (c) The Government of India have (b) the number of Pashabhai Patel approved a loan of Rs. 2,50,000/- for Ploughs which have so far been re this scheme on the following terms:— conditioned by the F.A.O. Expert; (1) The loan is repayable in 15 annual equated instalments (c) the number of reconditioned falling due on the first ploughs disposed of; and anniversary of the drawal of (d^ how they have been disposed loan. of? (2) During the first five years the Tne Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. Government of India will S. Deshmukh): (a) A statement is grant an annual subsidy to placed on the Table of the Lok Sabha. the State Government equi [See Appendix IV, annexure No. 63.1 valent to the amount of in terest accruing on the loan (b) Nineteen implements were re each year, and thereafter, the conditioned by the F.A.O. Expert. •uDsldy will be withdrawn. After the Expert’s departure, thirteen 1*77 Oiai Atifncers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Oral Answers i2jS iinplcjments have been reconditioned Mr. Speaker: Does he agree that on lilt lilies recommended by him. there will be a loss? (c) and (d). None of the modified Dr. P. S Deshmukl:: There will be implements have so far been disposed a loss. of by way of fmal sale. They have been put to work f^r determining Shri M. L. Dwivedi: May I know their suitability under actual fleld whether the implements that have, cr.ndiiions. been re-conditioned and put to work have been found to be of use in Shri S«trans:adhar Das: In view of comparison with other implements? the **manner of execution of the con tract, use of unsuitable material, etc.” Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: Full trials have .?,i quoted in the statement, may I to be carried out, but in some places know’, if the material is unsuitable, they have been found to be suitable, how it can be re-conditioned and Shri Safangadhar Das: What was utilised by the farmers who might the cost of the implements when they take them, and is liiat the reason why no iirin orders have come in? were first of all secured from this firm? Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: My hon. friend is probably interpreting the word Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I think the ‘material’ too literally. He probably total cost was about Rs. 45 lakhs. means that the structure or the com posite character of the steel or the iron is weak. That is not so. It does jfTO srom : WT not. refer to the whole material. It was defective in certain respects, and WW ?WT f'TT that was the modification we tried to •eai ry out. » Shri Saraiiffadhar Das: If no firm orders have come so far and if an ffRTJft f ^ % sniPii ^ anangement has been entered into >rc ^ T?r t ? between the suppliers and the Gov ernment that they would pay (^) ^ JPFIT ^ Rs. 3,36,000 odd, what is the "total loss taking this in view that these imple- monts will never be disposed of? (*t) ^ 15^ Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: The money »rfT«rnr wr f ? that has been received, or is expected to be received from the firm is not— The Minister of AKricnllure (Dr. 1*. I say subject to correction—is not on S DeslimulUi): (a) There are flve the condition that the implements will research centres under the Govern be re~conditinned. That is going to ment of India for the improvement of be received by Government irres Ihe wheat crop, particularly the pro pective of that consideration. duction of disease resistant varieties. There are besides four State Centreii Shri Saransradhar Das: My question in Bombay. Madhya Pradesh. was: taking this amount into considera Rajasthan and Punjab partially tion, and considering the fact that financed by the Indian Council of no firm orders arc coming and they Agricultural Research. arc not likely to come, what Is the total loss in this transaction? (b) It takes many years to pro* ducc a new variety of wheat. Among Dr P. S. Deshmukh: It is difficult the improved wheat varieties that to calculate it. have been released for general 557 L.SD. 1279 Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1280 cultivation during the last few years effect from April, 1955, no foreiga mention may be made of N.P.710, chartered vessels should be allowed K.P,718, N.P.770, N.P.755 and N.P.761 to operate on the Indian Coast; produced at the I.A.R.I. (b) 11 so, what other suggestions (c) Durin^g the last two years, how the Consultative Committee have ever. one variety, namely N.P.809, has put forward; and been released by the I.A.R.I. as being / (c) how far Government are pre suitable for cultivation in the hills of pared to implement their recommen Northern India. A yield of about dations?. 48 mds. per acre has been recorded in ihe Northern hills with the new The Deputy Minister af Railway:^ variety, N.P. 809. and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a> Yes, except that existing charters ex tending beyond 1st April 1955, should PRrfrrwrarf tp ^ ^ be allowed to run out the remaining, in?} f femw period of the contract. (b) and (c). A statement giving Ihe required information is laid on the »ro ^^0 inro Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Appen <4^ 3TI|'o 1^0 anro 3TT^0 5|? dix IV, annexure No. 64.1 fHn f I JT»T? femw ^ Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: What irttj 5tt ^5*3 ^ I was the target in terms of gross re gistered tonnage fixed for Indian ships Shri Neswi: May I know whether by the Shipping Policy Sub-Committee there are similar Research Stations which reported in 1947?, And n^ay I for other food crops like jowar^ bajra, know whether that target is expected ragi and paddy? If so, where are to be reached in the course of the First they established? If not, why not? Five Year Plan? Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: There is no Shri Alagesan: That Committee of independent Research Centre course reported some years back and established by the Government of they recommended a target of 2 mil India, but many State Governments lion tons. As the House is aware, we have their own research and* breeding have not been able to reach that tar organisations, and they are doing get. In fact, the, target laid down for fairly useful work. 1 the First Five Year Plan was only 6 Shri Radhelal Vyas: May I know lakh tons. Now a Sub-Committee of whether it has been possible to find this Consultative Committee is going out any rust resisting variety of know whether that target is expected wheat and, if so. what progress has should be fixed for the next Five Year been made in this respect? ' Plun. Or. P. S. Deshmukh: One of the Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: May I know whether some coastal shipping most creditable achievements of the companies have complained that proper I.C.A.R. and the Institute is the evolution of a variety which is con co-ordination between the Railways and the shipping companies is not be siderably rust resisting. ing maintained and, if so. what soeci- Indian Shipping fic steps Government propo.se to take *1049. Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha; to have better co-ordination? Will the Minister of Transport be Shri Alagesan: That was one of the pleased to state: subjects discussed in the Committee (a) whether the Estimates Commit Mnd a prooosal was made which Is now tee of India Ship-owners has re under consideration—it is given in' the commended to Government that with .statement itself. 128i Oral Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written ATiswers 12^2 Slirlmati Tarfceshwari Sinba: May T lakhs that is Rs. 354 lakhs as capital know whettier that target is expected grant. up its mind so far about reserving for the Indian ships the transport of the Shri K. C. Sodhia: What Is the pro Standard Vacuum Oil Refinery product cedure that is allowed to be followBd which they will take to the different in making these purchases? coastal towns in the country? S>hri Raj Bahadur: The Air Ind!a Int Shrl Alagesan; In the agreement temational Corporation Board take ^ which was made between the oil com decision in this respect and the sanc panies, and the Government there is a tion of the Grovemment of India is ob provision that this oil can be taken In tained thereupon. So far as the terms tankers which are owned by Govern are concerned, as regards the two ment or by Corporations in which Go super-constellation aircraft that we got vernment have majority shares. That we had to make a deposit of 50 per cent, question is under our consideration and of the value in stages and the balance we are trying to procure tankers. of 50 per cent, was paid on delivery. With regard to the other three that PURCHASB OF SUPBR-CONSTBLLATIOM v/e are going to get next year, 25 per aircrafts rent, has been deposited already and 75 per cent, will be paid on delivery •1050- Shrl K. C. Sodhia: Will the Minister of Communications be pleas-* Shri K. C. Sodhia: Are any officers ed to state: sent at the place of purchase? (a) the names of the countries from which the three super-constel Shri Raj 'Bahadur: The oHf^cers are lation and two count Mark III air- also sent if and when necessary. cr?ift were purchased last year by the Air India International; and Mr. Speaker: The Question Hour is (b) the price of each kind of air over. craft and the average ordinary life of the same? WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS The Deputy Minister of Communica tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) No air Research in Rayo n craft were purchased by the Air India Shri s. N. Das: International during 1953. Shri S. K. Razmi: (b) Does not arise. Will the Minister of Food and Agri Shri K. C. Sodhia: May I know what culture be pleased to state: amount was budgeted for the purpose? (a) whether it is a fact that an Shri Raj Bahadur: A loan was ad Indian Research Student specialising in vanced to the Air India International pulp and rayon manufacture in Japan, tor purchase of two super-constella has successfully experimented in mak tion aircraft to the tune of Rs. 25 lakhs ing rayon grade pulp from a mixture as loan and Hs. 87 lakhs as capital of species of Indian bamboo; and grant. That was in 1953-54 and we got (b) if so, what will be its industrial them in 1954-55. That was for two potentiality? aircraft. The Deputy Minister of Food and Then for the three Super-constella Agriculture (Shri M. V. Krishnappa): tion arircraft that we are going to have (a) and (b). Government have no in the months of January, February other information except what appear and March next year we budgeted in ed recenlly in the press regarding Shri 1953-54 Rs. 26 lakhs as loan, and in Gohers experiments in Japan on the 19.M-55 Rs. lakhs plus Rs. 315.37 production of rayon grade. pulp from 1283 Written Answers 10 DECEMB5R 1954 Written Answers I2H4 bamboo. In the absence of any techni Works without calling f»/r tenders cal details it is not possible to gauge from other firms; and the industrial potontialities of his ex (b) if so, the reasons for dispensing with the usual practice of inviting Railway Employees open tenders? pandit D. N. Tiwary: Will the rilinister of Railways be oleased to The Deputy Minister of Railways and state: Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) Yes. An Agreement has been entered into (a) whether it is a fact that in Sep with the North British Locomotive Co., tember 1954 a large number of Rail a British firm. way ministerial stalT made a demon stration in front of the Parliament House; (b) The Agreement is »ot only for the supply of components, raw mate (b) whether he received from the rials, machino tools etc.. but also for demonstrators a “Charter of demand”; the supply of technical personnel and and designs, prod ’ctiton planning etc., as (c) whether any assurance was may be required by Chittaranjan Loco given by him in this regard? motive Works. Even in regard to sup ply of compcnents etc., although open The Parliamentary Secretary to the tenders ma> not be resorted to, Minister of Railways and Transport arrangement will be made for abtain- (Shri Shahnawaz Khan): (a) and (b). ing the best possible price. Yes, Sir. • (c) No Sir. Japanese Method of Rick Citltivation Central Research iNSTrriTTEs ^1011. Shri Bahadur Singh: Will ^1008. Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad; Will the Minister of Food and Agriculture be pleased to refer to the reply the Minister of Food and Acriculture given to starred question No. 1253 be pleased to state: on the 22nd September, 1954 and state: (a) whether the Estimates Commit tee has recommended for the estab lishment Of one or two Research Insti (a) the estimated area of land tutes to ro-ordinate the work of the under the Japanese method of rice Regional Centres; and cultivation in the country; and (b) whether this recommendation (b) whether Government have has been accepted? given any assistance to the farmers who have adopted this method of The Minister of Agriculture (Dr rice cultivation? P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. (b) It is under consideration. The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Reports received Orders for Rolling Stock from the State Governments ^o far *1010. Sardar Lai Sinorh; Will the indicate that during the first crop Minister of Railways be eased, to season of the .year, 545,639 acres have been actually brought under this state- method. Final estimate for the cur (a) whether the Railway Board has rent year will be known only after concluded or is going to conclude an the paddy season is o<^er in all the agreement with a ftrm in England or States and final reports are received. other countries for supply of parts re quired for Chittaranjan Locomotive (b) Yes. 1285 Written Amwers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1286 Indian Telephone Industries, , Pradesh, Rajasthan, Hyderabaei. Banqalorb 5:aurashtra and Himachal Pradesh. *1015. Shri Thlmmaiah: WiU the (b) None, bccause there has not Minister of Communications be pleas en time for the training to b^ con- ed to state: rluded. (a) how many retired officers are (c) 100 (approximately). re-employed in the Telephone Indus UNliMFLOYMENT try, Bangalore; and •1018. Shri Hem Raj: Will the Minis (b) what are the special rei«ons ter of Labour be pleased to state the for appointing the retire^ officers in steps taken by Government for the the said Fdctory? assessment of employment opportunit The Deputy Minister of Communi- ies for persons of different educational ^^lions (Shri Kaj Bahadur): (a) Two. standards? The Minister of Labour (Shri K. K. (h) From July 1U48 onwards, the Dei^ai): No steps have so far been Iruiian Telephone Industries had to taken to assess employment oppor iKilise the services of certain retired tunities suitable for persons of oificers bccause of their past experi different eduratjonal standards.' ence, bul they have all been replaced now with the exception of two. One of tho two is to be replaced during the Fertiuzbrs course of the next month but the other *1019. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: Will officer, who is a retired telephone the Minister of Food and Agriculture f ngineer of the Posts and Telegraphs be pleased to state: Department, may have to be retained (a) the quantity of (i) phosphatic, for another year or so because of his and (ii) nitrogenous fertilizers annual special knowledge of automatic tele ly consumed in the country during phone components. ** 1*952-53 and 1953-54; Health Visitors (b) whether the consumption of these fertilizers was subsidized Im *1016. Shri Radha Raman: Will tl:e Government; and Minister of Health be pleased to refer (c) if so, to what extent? to the reply given to starred question No. 489 on the 29th November. 1954 The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P/ and state: S. Deshmukh): (a) to (c). A state ment is placed on the Table of the (a) the names of the States wftiere Lok Sabha. [5ee Appendix IV, the scheme for providing training annexure Sugar Industry Sir.' The enquiries show tliaH there *1022. Th. Ju«ral Kishare Sinha: Will was unusual delay on the part of two the Minister of Labour be pleased to stations in sending their tickets for state the names of the States which the months of November and Decem have declared the sugar industry to ber, 1953. be a ‘public utility service' during the < (b) Apart from disciplinary action •current crushing season? ' against the Station Masters of the Tlie Minister of Labour (Shri K. K. two Stations where delay took place,^ •Desai): Under section 2(n) (vi) of the attention of all Railways has been Industrial Disputes Act, 1947 the drawn to the standing orders on the “appropriate Government” to declare subject with instructions that they the sugar industry to be a public should be strictly followed. utihly service is the State Govern (c) At times, such a practice is re ment. Information so far received is sorted to in exceptional circum laid on the Table of the House. [See stances. Instructions, however, have Appendix IV, annexure No. 66.1 been reiterated to the effect 'that collected tickets should be sent only Tourist Traffic in special bags provided for the *1023. Shri Ganpatl Ram: Will me purpose. Minister of Transport be pleased to utatc the number of foreign tourists Landless labourers who visited Banaras in 1953-54 and ♦1026. Dr. Satyawadi: Will the during the period from the 1st Apacil MiTiister of Food and Agricnltnre be to the 31st October, 1954? pleased to refer to the answer given The Parliamentary Secretary to thr to starred question No. 1059 on the Minister of Railways and Transport 17th September. 1954 and state: (Shri Sbahnawaz Khan): 2818 in 195;^ (a) whether the Punjab Government 54. have submitted any scheme for giving lands to landless labourers; and 1523 from 1st April to 31st October,. 1954. These figures are approximate. (b) if so, the main features of the scheme? Railway Tickets The Minister of Agricultnre (Dr, •1025. Shri S. C. Samanta: WiU the I". S. Deshmukh): (a) No Sir. Minister of Railways be pleased to refer to the reply given to starred (b) Does not arise. question No. 2484 on the 13th May» Fertilizers 1954 and state: (a) whether Government have *1027. Shri Niranjan Jena: Will the enquired about the heaping of used Minister of Food and Agriculture be tickets on the Railway Stations bet pleased to state the kinds of fertilisers ween Howrah and Kharagpur; produced in India and the quantity of each produced during the year 1953 54? (b) if so, what steps have been taken to avoid the recurrence of such incidents; and The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. S. Deshmukh): The following (c) whether it is also a fact that quantities of different fertilisers were from some Stations used tickets are produced in the country during 1953 sent in paper cover which generally 54:— tfears and tickets get lost en route? 1. Sulphate of Ammonia .. 39079170 tons z. Superphosphate .. 65,651 tons The Parliamentary Seoretftry to the . Muriate of Potash .. 200 tens* of Railways and Transport 3 (Shri Shahnawax Khu): (a) Yes. ♦Estimated. 1289 Wriiien Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Ansioers 1290 STRlKli IN liBNGAL PROVINCIAL RAILWAY there has been, however, a certain amount of demand being in excess *1029. Shri M. S. Gunipadaswamy. of supply, largely due to causes of Will the Minister of Labour be an artificial nature. The Central pleased to state: Government main tarns two depots— (a) wlhether it is a fact that the one at Cuttack and the other at workers of the Bengal Provincial Rail Sambalpur from which direct sales way went on an indefinite strike from are being made to the public. the 14th November, 1954; (c) The State Government of (b) if so, the reason therefor; and Orissa does not exercise control over these depots. tc) the action taken or proposed to be taken by Government in the (d) On 5-12-54, there was a stock matter? of 337 tons in Cuttack and 151 tons at Sambalpur, making a total of 488, The Minister of Labour (Shri to which should be added another 80 X. K. Desai): (a) Yes. tons, which is on its way to Orissa; the normal requirements of the State (b) Non-fulfilment by the Manage is roughly 500 tons per month. ment of the Bengal Provincial Rail way of the demands made by the (e) No, Sir. workers. (c) As the attempt to bring about SAKRi Station a settlement through conciliation *1035. Shri S. N. Bas: Will the could not succeed, Government re Minister of Railways be pleased to ferred the dispute to an Industrial state: Tribunal for adjudication on the 22nd November, 1954. An order was also (a) whether Government propose to issued on the same day under sec effect improvements in the Sakri Rail tion 10(3) of the Industrial Dis way Station on the North Eastern putes Act, 1947, prohibiting the con Railway; tinuance of the strike. (b) if so, what improvements are ScARaxY OF W heat in Orissa proposed to be made; and n033. Siiri Sanganna: Will the (c) the total amount that will be Minister of Food and Agriculture be allotted for this Station out of the pleased to state: Passenger Amenities Fund? (a) whether there is a Scarcity of wheat in the State of Orissa; The Parliameniary Secretary to the Minister of Railways and Trans (b) if so, whether depots have been port, (Shi^i Shahnawaz Khan): (a) opened by Government there; As adequate facilities exist at this station, it is not proposed to under (c) the nature of the control that take any major work at present, the State Government exercises over these depots; (b) and (c). Do not arise. (d) th^ actual stock position of Panchayats wheat in the State; and *1043. Shri Sanganna: Wai the (e) whether the Government of Minister of Health be pleased to Orissa have approached for supply of state: wheat out of the central pool? (a) whether it is a fact that a Pan- The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. chayat Commission has been set up P. 8. Desimittidi): (a) and (b). It by Government to go into the matter 4s true that, while there has been no of reviving village self*Government; scarcity of wheat as such in Orissa, and Written Answers 10 DBCEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1292. 1291 (b) if so, how the matter stands at the U.P. Government and expendi present? ture to be met by the Central Gov ernment would be approximately The Minister of Health (Rajkumari Rs. 7,000/-. Amrlt Kaur): (a) The answer is in the negative. Bridges on National Highways (b) Does not arise. '*1047. Th. Jugal Kishore Slnhat ' Will the Minister of Transport be Conference on Poultry Production ' pleased to lay on the Table of the ♦1046. Shrl Ganpati Ram; Will the House a statement showing the list Minister ot Food and Agriculture be of bridges with estimated cost, State- pleased to state: wise, to be constructed under the Five Year Plan on the National High (a) whether it is a fact that a ways of India and state: Conference on Poultry Production will be held at Lucknow; (a) tHe progress so far made in this connection; and (b) if so, the names of countries participating therein; (b) thG reasons for varying mea (c) whether the expenditure of sures of progress from State to State? the conference will be borne by the Central Government; and The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) (d) whether any amount has been A statement giving the required in sanctioned for the purpose? formation is laid on the Table of The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. the Lok Sabha. [Placed in the F. S. Dcriunukh): (a) Yes^ . Library, See No. S—481/54.] **" (b) The Food and Agriculture Or (b) The variations in the progress ganisation of the United Nations, from State to State are due to- who have convened the Conference, several reasons chief among them have invited the following countries being (1) natural factors like foun dation soil etc. (2) size of the to participate: bridge (3) availability of skilled 1. Australia. labour (4) capacity of the Public 2. Burma. Works Department of the State con 3. Cambodia. cerned to collect hydraulic data, carry out preliminary investigations 4. Ceylon. and undertake the execution and 5. France (for Indo-China). supervision of the bridge construc 6. India. tion. 7. Indonesia. Training of Indians in l isiaujis 8. Japan. •1048. Shri S. C. Samanta: Will 9. Korea. the Minister of Food and Agriculture 10 liaos. be pleased to refer to the reply given Jl. Nepal. to starred question No. 2362 on the 10th May, 1954 and state: 12. New Zealand. 13. Pakistan. (a) whether any Indians have been trained abroad in the new techniques 14. Philippines. propounded by the fishery experts 15. Thailand. of F.A.O.; UA. (lor Malaya). (b) if so, when, and where; Vief Nam. (c) their number; and (c> knd (d). The Conference is (d) who met the expenses of their* being arranged in co-operation with training? 1293 Wiitten Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 'Writtm Answers 1294 The Minister of Agriiculturc (Dr. Cashew Ai'ples P. S. Dei^unukh): (a) No. *1053. Shri V. P. Ntyar: Will the (b) to (d). Do not arise. Minister of Food and Agriculture be pleased to state: Agricultural Coi.leqe in Madhya PitiDnsH (a) whether it is a fact that over 2 lakh tons of Cashew apples are *1051. Mulla Abdullabtaai: Will wasttd every year in India; and the Minister of Food and Agricul ture be pleased to state: (b) whether Government have for mulated any schemes to utilise this (a), whether the Madhya Pradesh material for human consumption and Govxjrnment have approached the if so, what the schemes are? Central Government for any financial assistance lor the setting up of an The Deputy Minister of Food and Agricultural College in the State; Agriculture (Shri M. V. Krishnappa): and (a) Yes. (b) No. The Madras Government (b) if so, the decision taken in the matter? carried out some work at the Fruit Product Laboratory at Kodur on The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. cashew apples and the methods of P. S. Deshmukh): (a) No. preparation of some products were standardised by them. The industry (b) Does not arise. does not appear to have taken up the preparation of the products presumab Railway Inspectorate ly because there is no demand from *1052. Sardar Hukam Singh: Will the public for the products. the Minister of Communications be Occupational Diseases pleased to state: *1054. ShH D. C. Sharma: Will the (a) the number of accidents which Minister of Health be pleased to were investigated by the Railway state: Inspectorate during 1954 .so far; and (a) whether any pilot survey re (b) what other functions were dis garding occupational diseases is being charged by the Railway Inspectorate carried out among the coffee planta during the period besides investiga tion labourers; ting these, accidents? (b) if so, under whose auspices; The Deputy Minister of Communi (c) whether the survey has Ijpen cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) 18. completed; and (b) During the period in question, (d) if so, what are the conclusions the Railway Inspectorate also dis arrived at? charged all the other functions which The Minister of HeaUh (Rajkumari devolve on it under Section 4 of the Amrit Kaur): (a) The Government Indian Railways Act, 1890. These of India have no information. functions consist in the main of the periodical inspection of open lines, ^(b) to (d). Do not arise. the inspection of new railway lines Central College of Agriculture prior to their opening to passenger traffic, and the examination of appli *1055. Shri Dabhi: Will the Minis cations for the running of new types ter of Food und Agriculture be pleas of locomotives and rolling stock, the ed to state whether Government movement of over-dimensional con have accepted or propose to accept signments and works involving in- the recommendation of the Estimates fk’ingements of the standard diM»- Committee contained in para. 54 of sions. their Seventh Report regarding the 1295 Wr'iUan An:i‘!ier:^ 10 DECEMBER 1D54 WritterL AnsiWcrs I29< closure of the Central College of (b) if so, whether the Central Ric« Agriculture, Delhi? Research Sub-station at Jeypore ir The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. the District of Koraput (Orissa) is under its jurisdiction; and F. S. Deshmulch): The matter is en gaging attention of Government. It (c) what kind of control it exercises is proposed to maintain the Central over the Sub-station? College of Agriculture as an institu tion separate from the Indian Agri-' The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. culture Research Institute, ' P. S. Deshmukh): (a) No. U. S, A. Surplus Wheat (b) and (c). Do not arise. Shri Gidwanl: *1056.^ Slirimati Tarkeshwari SlfUut: PtbLIC C^LL-OmCES IN M idnapore I^SIiri T. K. Chaudhuri: 669. Shri N. B. Chowdhury: Will Will the Minister of Food and Agri- the 'Minister of Communications be Central Rice Research Station, Cuttack The Deputy Minister of Communi cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): A list *105g. ShH Sanganaa: Will the showing the names of places in the l^inister of Food and Agriculture be Midnapur District where new Post pleased to state: Offices were opened during the year (a) whether the Central Rice Re 1953-54 is placed on the Table of the search Station at Cuttack has Sabha. [5ee Tppendix IV, annexur* branches all over the State of Otisw. No. 67.] 1297 'Written Anawers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written AnsweTS 1298 SEISMO (.VMlu will be available to the Bombay 671. Sardar Hukam Singh: Will the State also. Minister of Communicatioiis be pleas ed to state; Employment Exchanges in Punjab 673. Shri D. C. Sharma; Will the (a) whether any Seismog’'aphs are Minister of Labour be pleased to state: installed in any of the States in the country; and (a) the total number of ex-Service men registered in the Employment (b) whether any Seismograph is Exchanges in the Punjab during the proposed to be installed near Bhakra last three years; and Dam? (b) the number of persons who The Deputy Minister of Communi- secured employment through the Ex <;ations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) A changes during the above period? statement showing the location of Seismographs in the various States in The Minister of Labour (Shri K. K. the country is laid on the Table of Desai): (a) 46,211 cx-Servicemen the House [See Appendix IV, an- were registered at Exchanges in the nexure No. 68.J Punjab during the period from Octo (b) Yes, Sir. ber, 1951 to September, 1954. (b) The number of ex-Servicemen Research Schbmbs on Cashew nuts who secured employment through tfte 672. Shri V. P. Nayar; Will the Exchanges was 7,093. Minister of Food and Ai^riculture be pleased to state: Catering on Railways (a) whether any aid by way of 674. Shri S. C. Singhal: Will the grants or loans have been given for Minister of Railways be pleased to research schemes on cashewnuts state: sanctioned by the Indian Council of Agricultural Research; (a) the terms on which catering contracts are given on Railway Sta (b) whether it is a fact that the tions and the income derived from Governments of Travancore Cochin. such contracts so far during 1964; and Madras and Bombay have not fulfilled their financial obligations so far, with (b) the number of catering con tractors who have been punished foi the result that the schemes have not started functioning yet; and breach of contracts and what actioii has been taken against them during (c) what steps Government propose the past three years? to take to make these schemes work? The Depaiy Minister of Railways The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. and Transport (Shri Alagesan): P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Grants have (a) Contracts are given for a fixed been given for research schemes on period and are renewable from time cashewnut in Madras, Travancore- to time for approved services Contrac Cochin and Bombay States. tors are required to sell articles of good quality at controlled prices fix (b) The schemes are functioning in ed by the Administration; and are Madras and Travancore-Cochin. The forbidden to assign, mortgage or sub Bombay Government could not take let tftie whole or any part of their up the work owing to financial contracts. The licence fee for the stringency. year 1953-54 was approximately Rs. 27,00,000. (c) The results of work conducted at the two stations at Madras and Tra- (b) The number of contractors who vancore-Cochin, which are the most were punished during the last three important cashewnut jsrowing States^ years was 2610, the punishment of 1299 Written Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1300 warning was inflicted in 1210 cases, Ce) Electric fans and lights in third the punishment of fines in 1258 cases, class Waiting Halls. in 133 cases the contracts of contrac (f) Electric fans in third class car tors were terminated and in 9 cases riages. 2918 fans were provided in contracts were suspended. the first six months of the year in question. Overcrowding in Railways ' Adveriiskmen'I's Regarding Air 675. Shri Kristniacharya Joshi: Will ' Flights the Minisier ol Railways be pleased tf. slalc; ^)7B. Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Will the Minister of Communications be pleas (a) wliat concrete steps Govern ed to state: ment have taken to relieve overcrowd- ini; in third clas^ compartments; and (a) whether the attention of Gov ernment h'as been drawn to advertise (b) the special amenities provided ments appearing in various daily to third class passenKers during 19M? ncw.spapers regarding the Air India International flight to Hong Kong; and The Deputy Minister of Rftllways and Transport (Shri Alagresan): (a) (b) whether any protests have been Measures taken to relieve overcrowd received from the public on the theme ing in third class include: of these advertisements? (i) introduction of 130 new train The Deputy Minister of Communi services involving a daily cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) train mileage of 4696; Yes, Sir. (ii) augmentation of the strength (b) No, Sir. of and extension of the exist ing train services; and Production of Foodgrains (iii) increasing the frequency of ‘ <>77. Th. Lakshman Singh Charalc: certain trains, e.g., conversion Will the Minister of Food and Agri of bi-weekly services into culture be pleased to state: tri-weekly services, etc. (a) the quantity of wheat. rice, (b) Special amenities provided for bajra and maize respectively produc third class passengers during 1954 ed in the country from January to include: October, 1954, State-wise; (i) introduction of third class (b) the quantities of these food sleeping coaches on 8 trains; grains consumed during the same (ii) throwing open of dining car period. State-wise; and and retiring room facilities to third class passengers; (c) the quantities of these food (iii) throwing open of upper class grains imported from different, coun tries during the same period? * entrances and exist to third class passengers; and The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. (iv) Provision of: P. S. Deshmukh): (a) As estimates of production for the different crops (a) Accommodation set apart for are framed for the crop year as a third class reservation. whole, it is not possible to give the required information. However, four (b) Through service coaches for statements giving the estimates of third class passengers. the quantity of wheat, rice, bajra (c) Enquiry Offices in third class and maize produced in the country Waiting Halls. during the agricultural year July- June 1933-54, State-wise, are placed (d) Sanitised latrines and urinals. on the Table of the Lok I30I Written Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Writt(»n Arvaoers Sabha. [See Appendix IV, annexure Stores Pukchask Policy No. 69.] . ev) f (b) The required data arc not S' \ Morarka: available as no regular estimates on ‘ Will the Minister of Food and Agri- a State-wise basis are framed regard niliure be pleased to state: ing the quantities of these food- grains consumed in the country. (a) wheth€lr Government have ac cepted the recommendation of the Esti mates Committee contained in para. (c) There have been no imports 17 of their Seventh Report re;;ardin5 of. barley and maize into the country the fixation of the responsibility for the for the period from January to Octo- losses due to lack of planning and fore ber» 1954. As regards wheat and sight in the purchase of tractors, sur rice, the statement below gives the plus parts, stores, unsuitable and un latest position. economic diesel trucks etc.; and Quantity imported (b) the action taken against the Grains into India from officers found guilty of irregularities I-I-54 to 29-9-54t in the purchase of tractors, surplus stores, etc.? tons The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. I. Wheat 87.637 P. S. Deshmukh): (a) and (b). The 1. Rice 3.26,630* various recommendations on the working of the Central Tractor Or ganisation made by the Estimates ♦TnUudes 22,157 tons v f rice rcocived tfrom the Government of Ceylon in cxchang Committee in its 7th Report are still for indigenous rice to be supplied to them. under examination. It is hoped to obtain orders of Government on them tLater figures are not yet availphle. within the next few weeks. Radio Licence Fee Pashabuai Implements 680. Th. Lakshman Singh dutrak: Will the Minister of Communicatlona 678. Shri Dabhi: Will the Minister be pleased to state: of Food and Agriculture be pleased to :state: (a) the amount derived as the Radio Licence Fee during the last three (a), whether Government have ac- financial years; -cepted the recommendation of the Estimates Committee contained in (b). the sources of other licence fees para. 37 of tkeir Seventh Report to the collected by Posts and Telegraphs De eflfect that the Pashabhai implements partment during the same period; and should not be rehabilitated before the (c) the percentage taken by the various States give orders for the Department as collection charges? same; and The Deputy Minister of Communi (b) the number of Pashabhai imple cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) In ments which have not so far been re formation is furnished in the state habilitated? ment which has been laid on the Table of the Lok Sabha. {See Appen The Mlnfster of Agriculture (Dr. dix IV. annexure No. 70.] F, S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. The re (b) It is presumed that the hon. commendation has been accepted. Member is referring to the “sur charge"’ recovered in the event of (b) 1,218, out of which 342 are not delay in obtaining licenses. On this capable for rehabilitation. assumption the required information 1303 Written Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1304 is furnished in the abovementioned 19. Bombay (Juhu) statement. 20. Bombay (Santa Cruz) (c) The Indian P. & T. Department 21. Calcutta (Barrackpore-IAF) at present retains only annas 8 per 22. Calcutta (Dum Dum) license on account of issue of these ' licGnses. 23. Chakulia '24. Cochin (Navy/Civil) Movbmenis of Abroplanes 25. Coimbatore 681. Shri Bhafifwat Jha Azad: Will 26. Delhi (Safdarjung) the Minister of Communicationg be 27. Delhi (Palam-IAF) pleased to state: 28. Gauhati (a) the names ot the aerodromes in 29. Gaya India which are functioning as the 30. Gorakhpur centres for the wireless control on the movements of aeroplanes for commer 31. Gwalior cial civil aviation in India; 32. Hyderabad (Begumpet) (b) whether such aerodromes are 33. Imphal furnished with up-to-date modern 34. Jaipur scientific equipments and apparatus; 35. Jammu (c) if so, the total investment made 36. Jamnagar (lAF-Civil) by Government on such air stations; 37. Jharsuguda (d) whether any further improve 38. Jodhpur (lAF-Civil) ments are proposed to be introduced; 39. Jorhat (lAF) and 40. Kailashahar ' - (e) if so, at what cost and by what 41. Kamalpur time? ' 42. Kanpur (Chakeri-IAF) The Deputy Minister of Communi 43. Keshod cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) 44. Khowai The names of such aerodromes are: 45. Kotah 1. Agartala 46. Kumbhigram 2. Ahmedabad 47. Lalitpur 3. Akola 48. Lilabari 4. Allahabad 49. Lucknow ^ 5. Amritsar 50. Madras 6. Asansbl 51. Mangalore 7. Aurangabad 52. Mohanbari 8. Bagdogra ^ . 53. Muzaffarpur 9. Balurghat 54. Nagpur 10. Banaras 55. Passighat 11. Bangalore 56. Pathankot 12. Baroda 57. Patna 13. Belgaum 58. Poona (IAF> 14. Belonia 59. Porbandar 15. Bhavnagar 60. Raipur 16. Bhopal 61. Rajkot 17. Bhubaneshwar 62. Ranchi 18. Bhuj 63. Srinagar (lAF) 1305 Written Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1306 64. Tezpur VT OTTO 65. Tiruchirapalli 66. Trivandrum 67. Vijayawada 68. Visakhapatnam rP? 69. Warangal. (b) Some of the equipment is modern and up-to-date and some is (^) ^ ^ W not quite so up-to-date, but the ser vice rendered is in accordance with the standard laid down by the Inter TO ^ national Civil Aviation Organisation. The equipment which is not up-to- date is being gradually replaced with newer items. * The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. (c) Rs. 192 lakhs. P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes, from 1st April 1951 to 31st March 1954. (d) Yes, Sir. (b) Rs. 10,71,17,007. (e) At a cost of approximately Indian Shipping Rs. 252 lakhs for 83 stations by March 1956 and at a cost of approxi 684. Shri T. B. Vittai Rao: Will the mately Rs. 460 lakhs for about one Minister of Transport be pleased to hundred stations by March 1961. state: (a) whether it is a fact that Indian HoMOEOPATHifc System shipping companies are placing con tracts for ship-building with firms in 68Z. Shri Bhar^at Jha Azad: Will Germany; the Minister of Health 'be pleased to state: (b) if so, (i) the names of shipping companies which have placed such (a) the names of States which have contracts during the last five years, (ii) enacted laws regarding the Homoeo the names of firms which undertook pathic system of medicine; to supply the ships, (iii) the number, value and tonnage of ships supplied (b) the names of the States which so far; and have formed Homoeo-pathic State faculties; and (c) the reasons why it .was not possible to supply these requirements (c) the names of the States which from Vlzagapatnam Shipyard? have registered Homeopathic prac The Deputy Minister of Railways titioners? and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) Yes. The Minister of Health (Rajkumari Amrit Kaur): (a) Bombay, Bihar, (b) A statement giving the re Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Hy quired information is attached here derabad, Travancore-Cocl^in and with. [5ee Appendix IV, annexure Bhopal. No. 71.] (b) West Bengal. (c) Orders for the ships could not be placed on the Visakhapatnam ship (c) Bombay, Uttar Pradesh, Mad building yard mainly because the hya Pradesh, West Bengal and yard was fully booked till about the Hyderabad. end of 1956 and the Indian shipping 1307 Written Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Answers^ 1308 ^ c‘ompa;)ies.conceited needed addil.ioiia; ordrrs from privotc parties lor re $hips as quickly' as possible to enable fining vegetable oils. them to fulttl their commitments in the overseas trade. ‘Viscounts* Aircrafts 687. Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: ^ ^ Will the Minister of Comnoiunicatlons be pleased to state: «rt : SPTT ^ (a) the causes of the delay in ^ «(d H ^ iw % * placing orders for the new aircrafts (^) WT ^ ^ — ‘Viscounts’ in connection with the re placement of Dakotas by them as re ^ % Hmr^^TT aftr commended by tlie Indian Airlines 5FiT5Rf % ^ % Corporation; and (b) how much time has lapsed since 3TTii r% The Deputy Minister of F006 and Air Strip at Kui^nool Af^rlculture (Shri M. V. KiMknappa): The factory has not yet started pro 688. Shri Gadilin^na Gowd: Will duction of Vanaspati on a commer the Minister of Communications be cial basis. pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that an The production capacity of this fac air strip will be opened at Kurnool tory is 10 tons of Vanaspati per day. by about the 1st April, 1955; and In addition to this, it can refine 5 tons of oil per day. (b) if so, whether all the passenger planes flying from Madras via Hy The Madras Government have de derabad to Delhi will stop at Kur cided either to sell or lease out the nool? factory. In the meantime the factory is refining groundnut oil required by The Deputy Minister of Communi the Kerala Soap Institute of the Mad cations (Shr: Raj Bahadur): (a) No, ras Government, in addition to job Sir. 1309 Written Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Answvn 1310 (b) Does not arise. (b) whether it is a fact that their number is being reduced gradually to ultimate stoppage; and ^c) if so, how many tram cars : WT have been reduced so fs^? »T?fV PlHfor<°l TH£FT op Coal at PAL£ZACHAt (?r) p Mf fw JH!R ^ «ft: • C91. Pandit D. N. Tiwary: Will th6 Minister of Railways be pleased to (»t) ft!?i5ft *nwffiflt state: vV, WfV ?!?rr(t nrfiJTf fiRpft (a) whether Government'we awi^re %?f?y ^ sft^: ar^ii jtvk ^ that a large quantity of coal is stol en and sold at Palezaghat (North ; Eastern Railway); and (w) ?5T 5'i2?rT3ft #■ Pp?R w(t (b) whether it is a fact that no ft**ilr, fts^pi fes^r, f%?j^ step has been taken even after com plaints have been lodged with the aflT 3RI wfw ; Railway Authorities? («) ^ ?r 5$ 5Tf^ ^ The Peputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alaf^san): IJ^SJT PRPTT t ; > Government have not received a (^) Pnn^ W ^ '12^ ^ general complaint of this nature. wfir <1^ sftr Pht ?r Jfhr (b) No. Enquiries were made ini- mediately on receipt of a complaint, ^ spi JWT; but the charge of pilferage of coal could not be substantiated. (b) ^ 5^z«n3ff % # ^ »rf arHf % gnr % wt Train Bus Collision ■^nR®r JW? 5^ ; ark 692. Dr. Rama Rao: Will the Min. (w) WT ^ 5pf ister of RaUways be pleased to state: % M yRVTT # vtf JTt^ fsnf t> (a) whether a Railway train collid ed with a bus on a level-ci^ossing at aftr lift 5T, ?ft finrr»r wt t ? Dalasunur on the Southern Railway on the 22nd October, 1954; V»nf w«it ^fr Down Passenger, while running be challaned by the Delhi Police during tween Srinlvaspur and Dalsanur on 1954 due to the defects in the buses the Chickballapur-Bangarapet Narrow such as the absence of the head and gauge section of the Southern Rail rear lights and the absence of the way, ran into a motor-bus at an un speed meter; manned level crossing at mile 22/15 14. 1 (b) the number of drivers punished by the courts; and (b) Three persons died and four were injured. All of them were (c) the number discharged by the travelling in the bus. Department due to their punishment by the court? (c) The accident was caused by the driver of the bus crossing the un The Deputy Minister of Railways manned level crossing in the face of and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) the approaching train. Three. Railway Employees * (b) The case against one driver is pending in the court and two others 693. Shrl Sangaima: Will the Min have been fined by the courts. ister of Railways be pleased to state: (c) Nil. i:, (a) whether any f»T-employees of the Civil Supplies Department, Oris sa have been absorbed in the Rail Quarters for Postal Employees ways; and 696. Shri Hem iuj: Will the Mlais- (b) If so, the Categories of service ter of Communications be pleased to in which they have been employed? state: The Deputy Minister of Railways (a) the various sums sanctioned for and Transport (Shri Alagesan): In~ the construction nf residential quarters foriiiation is being collected and will of Postal and Telegraph Department be laid on the Table of the House in employees for the different places in due course. the suburban areas for the years 1952 53, 1953-54 and 1954-55 in the Kangra “PAY AFTER-HARVEST** LOANS and Ambala Postal Divisions; and 694. Shri Sanganna: Will the Min (b) the sums actually spent at ister of Food and Agriculture be different places in these years in the pleased to state: said Divisions? (a) whether the ‘Pay-after-har vest* loans for fertilizers hiave been The Deputy Minister of Communi given to the sugarcane growers in cations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) the State of Orissa during the year and (b). A statement is placed on 1954; and the Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Appendix IV, annexure No. 72.] (b) if so, to what extent? The Deputy Minister of Food and O3MPENSAT0RY AND HILL ALLOWANCES Agriculture (Shri M. V. Krishnappa): TO Postal Employees (a) No. 697. Shri Hem Raj: Will the Minister of Communications be pleased to state: (b) Does not arise. (a) the names of the places where W orking of Delhi Transport Service Compensatory and Hill allowances are 695. Shri G. L. Chtudhary: Will the paid to the Posts and Telegraphs em Minister of Transport be pleased to ployees in the Kangra and Ambala state; Postal Divisions; and (a) the number of occasions when (b) the basis on which these allow the Delhi Transport Bus drivers were ances are granted to the employees? i3iy Written Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1314 The Deputy Minister of Communi (^) w % ^ ^ ^ cations (Sliri Raj Bahadur): (a) A statement containing information re nf t garding compensatory and (or) Hill (n) ^ ^ ^ ^STTTFf allowances in these areas is placed on the Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Appendix IV, annexure No. 73^] (b) Compensatory (city) and house M wr wihnr) : rent allowances are generally granted (^) I in cities where the population exceeds five lakhs. House rent allowance is generally given for officials on pay not exceeding Rs. 100/- p.m. in cities (jT) ^ ^ ^ where population exceeds 1 lakh sub stantially, that is by about 15 per »T? ?Rprrr o.v tot arft ^ cent. Allowances are also granted, wra' 3H^ wherever justified, to compensate for f I expensiveness in localities with bad climate, for higher cost of living in Cbi'Ttral Tractor Organisation hill stations, and for expenses inci dental to service in remote localities. 700. Shri K. C. Sodhia; Will the Minister of Food and Affrtculture be Delhi Suburban Trains pleased to state: 698. Shri Gidwani; Will the Minis (a) the total area of (i) reclama ter of Railways be pleased to state: tion work, (ii) jungle clearance work (a) whether it is a fact that the and (iii) any other operations per Northern Railway plans to run Subur formed by the Central Tractor Organi ban Railway Service between New sation during January-June 1954; Uelhi and Vinay Nagar; (b) the names of the States where (b) what will be the stations in this was done: between; and (c) when this service will operate? (c) the cost of ploughing per acre charged in each case; The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) (d) the number of tractors actually Yes. working throughout the season and the number of those which worked only (b) The location of the intervening partially; and stations has not yet been finalised, hut halts under consideration are:— (e) the fuel and spare part charges included for calculating the cost of (i) Hazrat Nizam-ud-Din. ploughing? (ii) Lajpat Nagar. m (iii) Sewa Nagar. The Minister of Agriculture (Dr« P. S. Deshmukh); (a) to (e). A (iv) Lodi Colony. » statement is placed on the Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Appendix IV, (c) It is proposed to introduce this annexure No. 74.] service from 1-1-55. Ajhs? TH VTT Nagpur Employment Exchange 701. Mulla Abdullabhal: Will th(» wr Minister of Labour be pleased to state: (a) the total number of candidates (v) snfV # pRPft registered in Nagpur Employment Ex* change since the 1st Janup**v, 1954 to date; * 1315 Written Answers 10 DECEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1316 (b) the number among them for (d) whether it is a fact that the whom employment was secured; progress has 'been slow; and , (c) the number of appointments of (e) if so, the reasons therefor? technical-hands, clericar and others, separately; and The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) (d) how the figures compare with 572. those oi the previous two years? . (b) One fan for 9 passengers. The Minister of Labour (Shri K. K. Desai): (a) 16,428 registrations were ' (c) 6144. effected during the period, 1st Jan- .. ; (d) No. uary, 1954 to 31st October, 1954. (e) 'Does not arise. (b) and (c). 1,313 placements were ^ , effected, of which 417 were in Tech nical, 158 in clerical and 738 m Tube-Wblls other occupational categories. 703. Shri Booyaraghasamy; Will the (d) A statement is placed on the Minister of Food And Agriculture be Table of the House. [iSee Appendix pleased to state: IV, annexure No. 75.] (a) the total number of tube-wells. Passbngbr Am^ities sunk in the various States upto 702. Shri Amjad Ah: WiU the Minis November, 1954; ter of Railwajis, be pleased to state: (b) the amount spefrt so far, State- (a) the number of third class wise; and coaches in which Ians have been pro (c) how many of them proved suc vided during the current year till the cessful, State-wise? 31st October. 1954; . * * The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. (b) the basis on which these fans P. S. Deshmukh): (a) to (c). A are being fitted; statement giving the latest informa- (c) the total number of fans expect mation available is placed on the ed to be fitted in third class coaches Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Ap during this Tear; pendix IV, ann^ttre No. 76.1 INDEX TO LOK SABHA DEBATES—PART I Vol. VI— No. 19 lOTH DECEMBER, 1954 Japanese method of rice cultiva tion. 1284. ABDULliARBAI, MULLA— Research schemes on cashew Question by— nuts. 1297-96, See also “Grant(s)*\ Agricultural College in Madhya Pradesh. 1293. AIR FREIGHT RATES- Nagpur Employment Exchange. Question re— 1314-15. ------for newspapers. 1295. ACCIDENT(S)— AIR SERVICE(S)— Question re— Question re— Train bus collision. 1310-11. Advertisements regarding air flights. 1300. , ADVERTISEMENT(S)— Question re— AIR STRIP— —— regarding air flights. 1300. Question re— —— at Kurnool. 1308-09. AERODROME(S)— AIRCRAFT(S)— Question re— • Question re— Movements of aeroplanes. 1303— Movements of aeroplanes. 130^ - 05; 05. See also “Air Strip’’. ' Purchase of super-constellation AGRA— ------. 1281-82. Question re— ‘Viscounts’ ------. 1308. Railway wagons. 1205-06. ALAGESAN COMMITTEE— AGRICULTURAL COLLEGEO)— Question re— Question re— Railon per bhojan vyavastha . in Madhya Pradesh. 1293. AMERICA, UNITED STATES OF— BHAKT DARSHAN, SHRI— Question re— Question (Supplementary) by— ------surplus wheat. 1295. Dak karmcharion men bhrashta" char. AMJAD ALI, SHRI— Question by— ^ Wfmrc) 1254. Passenger amenities. 1315<16. BHARGAVA, PANDIT THAKUR Railway wagons. 1265-66. DAS— AUCTION— ^ Question (Supplementary) by— Question re— Irrigation facilities in Punjab. Catering on railways. 1260—62. 1269. AZAD, SHRI BHAGWAT JHA— BIHAR— Question by— Question re— Central research institutes. 1283. Family planning. 1270-72. Homoeopathic system. 1305. Indian farm boys. 1206—68. Movements of aeroplanes. 1303— BOOVARAGHASAMY, SHRI— 05. Question by— Question (Supplementary) by— Tube-wells. 1316. Railon per bhojan vy avast ha. BRIDGE(S>— 1264. Question re— B ------on national highways. 1292. BAHADUR SINGH, SHRI— C Question by— Japanese method of rice cultiva CABLE(S)— tion. 1284. Question re— Telegraph and telephom wires. BANARAS— 1259-60. Question re— Tourist traffic. 1287. CAPITAL— Question re— BANGALORE— Cashewnut industry. 1269-70. Question re— Indian Telephone Industries,------CASHEW APPLE(9)— 1285. Question re— Cashew apples. 1294. barharia— Question re— CASHEWNUT— Barharia Police Station men tar Question re— ghar. -----industry. 1269-70. Research schemes on ------. 1297>98. CENTRAL OILSEEDS COMMITTEE— 1254. Question BASU, SHRI K. K — Cess on oils. 1255-56. Question (Supplementary) by— CENTRAL RCIE RESEARCH Family planning. 1272. STATION— BEGGAR(S)— Question re— Question re— ------, Cuttack. 1296. ------nuisance at railway stations. CENTRAL TRACTOR ORGANISA 1250-51. TION— “BENGAL PROVINCIAL RAIL- Question re— WAY»»— Central Tractor Or|ranisation. See “Railway^ Bengal Provincial*’. 1314. BHAKRA DAM— CESS— Question re— Question re— Seismographs. 1297. ------on oils. 1255-56. TO DEBATES, PART i, lOTM DECEMB^, 19^ COMPENSATION— CHARAK, TH. LAKSHMAN SINGH— Question re— Train accident. 1273-74. Question by— Production of foodgrains. 1300-01. COMPENSATORY ALLOWANCE-- Radio licence fee. 1302-03. Question re— Train accident 1273-74. Compensatory and Hill Allowanco CHAUDHARY, SHRI G. L.— to postal employees. 1312-13. Question by— ' Diesel Rail karen. COMPLAINT(S)— Question re— TW 1313-14. Post and Telegraph—Organisation. Working of Delhi Transport Ser 1246—48. vice. 1311-12. CHAUDHURI, SHRI T. K.— CONFERENCE— Question by- Question re— U.S.A. surplus wheat 1295. ------on Poultry Production. 1291 CHETTIAR, SHRI T. S. A.— 92. Question (Supplementary) by— CONTRACTO)— Chittaranjan men Railway enginon Ka karkhana, Question re— Catering on Railways. 1260—62. (f^RppinT ^ ^ vrorpTr) 1268. CONTROL(S)— Railway sahkari adhar per Question re— tractoron ka upyog, Food 1251-52. ^ wmrr w CORRUPTION— ) 1275. Question re— ------among Railway staff. 1272-73. Reclamation coi&t. 1253. Post and Telegraph Complaints CHITTARANJAN— Organisation. 1246—48. Question re— , Chittoranjan men railway enginon CULTIVATION— ka karkhana. Question re— Japanese method of rice ------. fanrf «frTTwnrr) 1284. 1262-63. Question GHOWDHUKY, SHRI N. B.— CUTTACK— Question by Central Rice Research Station, Post offices in Midnapur. 1296. ------. 1296. Public call-offlces in Midnapore. 1296. CIVIL SUPPLIES DEPARTMENT, ORISSA— DABHI, SHRI— Question re— Railway employees. 1311. Question by— Central College of Agriculture. COALr- 1294-95. Queetion Corruption among Railway stall 1272-73. TbMat — at Palezaghat. 1310. Pashabhai implements. 1301, COLLEGE(S)— Reclamation cost. 1252-53. Question Stores Purchase Policy. 1302. Central of Agriculture. 1294- Question (Supplementary) by— 95. Cess on oils. 1256. 263 LOK DAS, SHRI B. K.— Rail durgatnayen. Question (Supplementary) by— 1309. Cashewnut industry. 1276. DWIVEDI, SHRI M. L.—contd. DAS, SHRI S. N.— Question by—contd. Question by— Railway sehkari adkar par Air freight rates for newspapers. tracUiron ka ttpyog. 1295. , Research in Rayon. 1282-83. chri anvTR ^ ^trahr) Sakri Station. 1290. 1274-75. • Tractaron ka ayat, DAS, SHRI SARANGADHAR— Question by— tPT airano iWa. Arrears of telephone revenues. Question (Supplementary) by^ 1257—59. Pashabhai implem^ts. 1278. Pashabhai implements. 1276—78. ’ E DELHI— Question re— EMPLOYMENT— Tram cars in------. 1309-10. Question re— DELHI TRANSPORT SERVIClt- Unemployment. 1286. Question re— EMPLOYMENT EXCHAiJGEW)— Working of ------. 1311-12. QuesUon re—^ DEMONSTRATION------in Punjab. 1298. Question re— Nagpur------. 1314-15. Railway employees. 1288. EXPENDITURE(S)— DESERT— Question re-^ Question re— Conference on poultry production. Immobilization of Kutch ----- 1291-92. * 1275-76. Quarters for postal employees. DHUSIYA, SHRI— 1312. , Question by— Telegraph and telephoi^e wires. Catering on Railways. 1260—62. 1259-60. DIESEL ENGINE CAR(S)— Tube>wells. 1316, Question re— Diesel Rail karen, F ’ (#sr^ TW 1313-14. FACTORY(IES)— Question re— DISEASE(S)— Chittciranjan men railway enflfinon Question re— ka karkhana. Occupational — 1294. DIVATIA COMMITTEE— Question re— 1262-63. Pashabhai implements. 1276—78. Government Hydrogenation —— DRIVER(S)— at Kozhikode. 1307-08. Question re— Telegr&ph and telephoaie Jirires. Working of Demif Ti’ansport 1259-60. Service. 1311-1? FAMILY PLANNING— DWIVEDI, SHRI M. L.— Question re— , Question by— Family planning. 12^-72, • • Hameerpur men dak ke thelon FERTILIZER(S)— ka chheena jana. ^ Question m % VT W5TT) 1245-46. Fertilizers. 1286. 1288. 364 tND£X to DEBATES. t^ARt i, lOTH DECEMBER, l9S4 FISHERY(IES)— GOVIND DAS, SETH— Question re— Question by— Training of Indians in------. 1202 Dak karmcharion men bhrashta- 93. char, nVE YEAR PLAN— ^ 1253-54. Question re— GRANT(S)— Indian shipping, 1279—81. Question I'c— FOOD— Agricultural College HYDERABAD-. KHANDSARI, SUGAR.- Question re— ' Question re— Message Rate System. 1272« Sugar cane. 1286. I KHARAGPUR— IMPORT(S)— Question re— Question re— Railway tickets. 1287-88. Russian tractors. 1257. KOZHIKODE— Tractaron ka ayat, Question re— Cfwcjf ^ «n«mo 1806. Government Hydrogenation Factory at ----- 1307-08. INDIAN AIRLINES CORPORATION— Question re— 'Viscounts* aircrafts. 1308. KURNOOLr- INDIAN COUNCIL OF AGRI Question re— CULTURAL RESEARCH— Air strip at------. 1308-09. Question re— KUTCH— Research schemes on cashew-nuts. Question re— 1297-96. Immobilization of - desert. INDUSTRY(IES)— 1275-76. Question rc— Caahewnut ------. 1269-70. Sugar------. 1287. IRRIGATION— LABOUR— Question re— Question re— ------facilities in Punjab. 1268-69. Landless labourers. 1288. ITALY— LAL SINGH, SARDARr- Question Question by— Diesel Rail karert, * Orders for rolling stock. 1283-84. (Art hx 1313-14. LAND— j Question re— JAPANESE METHOD OF RICE Japanese method of rice cultiva CULTIVATION— tion. 1284. Question re- Japanese method of rice cultiva LEMON GRASS— tion. 1284. Question rc— JENA, SHRI NIRANJAN— Lemon-grass. 1248-50. Question by— Fertilizers. 1288. LICENCE FEE— JOSHI, SHRI KRISHNACHARYA— Question re— Question by— Radio ------. 1302-03. Beggar nuisance at railway LOAN(S)— stations. 1250-51. Question re— Message Rate System. 1272. Immobilization of Kutch desert. Overcrowding in Railways. 1299 1275-76. 1300. “Pay after-harvest” ------. 1311. K Purchase of super-constellation KANGRA— aircrafts. 1281-82. Question re— M Compensatory and hill allowance MADHYA PRADESH— to postal employees. 1312-18. Question re— Quarters for postal employees. Agricultural College in ----- 1312. 1293. 266 INDEX TO DEBATES, PART I, lOTH DECEMBER, 1954 MAIL BAGS- NESWI, SHRI T. R.— Question re— Question (Supplementary) by— Havieerpur men dak ke thelon ka Gaihoon sambandhi anusandhan, chheena jana, 1279. NEW DELHI— gnsfT) 1245^46. Question re— Delhi suburban trains. ISIS. MALVIYA, PANDIT C. N.— Question (Supplementary) by— NEWSPAPER(S)— Beggar nuisance at railway Question re— statit>ns. 1250. Air freight rates for ------1295. Reclamation cost. 1252. NITRCXJENOUS FERTILIZER— MANUFACTURE^ Question re— Question re— i Fertilizers. 1286. Railway wagons. 1285-60. MASCARENE, KUMARI ANNIE— NORTH BRITISH LOCOMOTIVR Question (Supplementary) by— CO.— Catering on Railways. 1261. Question re— ‘ Orders for rolling stock. 1283-84. MEDICAL TRAINING— Question re— Health visitors. 1285-86. OCCUPATIONAL DISEASE(S)— MESSAGE RATE SYSTEM— Question re— Question re— Occupational diseases. 1294. Message Rate System. 1272, MIDNAPORE^ OILS— Question re— Question re— Post Offices ^n ------. 1296. Cess on — 1255-56. Public call-offlces in ------. 1296. ORISSA— MORARKA, SHRI— Question re— Question by— ' ‘Tay after-harvest** loans. 1811. Stores Purchase Policy. 1302. Scarcity of wheat in------. 1289-90. N NAGPURr- PALEZAGHAT— Question re— * Question re— ------Emplojmient Exchange. 1314- IB. Theft of coal at 1310. NATIONAL CHAMBER OF COM MERCE AND INDUSTRY— PANCHAYAT COMMISSION— Question re— Question re— Panchayats. 1290-91. Railway wagons. 1265-66. NATIONAL HIGHWAYS- PASHABHAI PATEL AND CO.— Question re— Question re— Pashabhai implements. 1276—^78. Bridges on ------. 1292. NAYAR, SHRI V. P.— PHOSPHATIO FERTILIZER— Question by— Question re— Cashew apples. 1294. Fertilizers. 1286. Cashewnut industry. 1269-70. Lemon-grass. 1248-50. PLOUGHS— Research schemes on cashew- Question re— Pashabhai Implements. 1276—78. nirts. 1297-98. ■------—r—: ?67 LOR SABHA POUCE STATION— PULP— QuBstion re— Question Barharia Police Station men tar Research in Rayon. 1282-83. ghar, PULSED mnr?) Question re— ' 1254-55. Railway wagoni^. 1265-66* POST AND TELEGRAPH COM PUNJAB— ^ PLAINTS ORGANISATION— Question re— Question re— Hmployment exchanges in ——. Post and Telegraph Complaints 1298. Organisation. 1246>48. Family planning. 1270-72. POST OFFICES(S)— Irrigation facilities in------. 1268 Question re— 69. ------in Midnapur. 1296. Landless labourers. 1288. P0!etA!L EMPLOYEE(S)— PUROHAS®^ Question re— Question re—. Stores ------Policy. 1302, Compensatory and hidl allowance to------1812-18. QUAHTERSh- Daak karmcharton men bhrashta- See “Government Quarter(6)*\ char. B ■JTOnTTf 1283-54. RADHA RAMAN, SHRI— Quarters for ------. 1312. Question by— POULTRY PRODUCTION— Health visitors. 1285-86. Question re— Tram cars in Delhi. 130S*10. Conference on------. 1291-92. RADIO— PRABHAKAR, SHRI NAVAL— Question Question by— ------licence fee. 1302^03. Chittaranjan men Hailway enginon ka karkhana. RAILWAY(S)— QuMtion re— Strike in Bengal Provincial------vmmn) 1262-63. 1289. Gehun sanibandhi anusavdhan, RAILWAY ACCIDENT(S)— Quesjtion re— Rail durghatnayen, . ^ 1309.. PRICE(S)— Railway Inspectorate. 1293. Question re^ Train accident. 1273-74. Chittaranjan men Railway Train bus collision. 1310 11. enginon ka karkhana, RAILWAY AMENITY(IES)— ^ «PT Question re— Overcrowding in Railways. 1299 ^ ’ ^STTHRT) 1262-63. 1300. ------of sugar cane. 1254*55. Passenger amenities. 1315-16. PRODUCTION— Railon per bhojan vyavastha, Question re— ^ Tfrhprapmrr 1263-64. Fertilizers. 1288. Government Hydrogwition RAILWAY, BENGAL PROVINCIAL— Factory at Kozhikode. 1307-08. Question re— ' ------of foodgrains. 1300-01. Strike in ------. 1289. 26| INDEX TO DEBATES, PART I, lOTH DECEMBER, 1954 RAILWAY CATERING— Question re— RAJASTHAN— Catering on Railways. 1288-M, Question re— Immobilization of Kutch desert. RAILWAY EARNING(S)— 1276-76. Question re— Catering on Railways. 1298*99. RAM DASS, SHRI— Question by— RAILWAY. EASTERN— Indian farm boys. 1266—68. Question re— Naye stationon ka fchola jana. RAM SUBHAG SINGH. DR.— JPTT fT 3THr Question by— Fertilizers. 1286. RAILWAY EMPLOYEE(S)— ■ i- Question re— RAO, DR. RA MA- Corruption among Rail\yay staff. Question by— 1272-73. Train bus collision. 1810-11. Railway employees. 1283» 1311. RAO, SHRI T. B. VITTAL— RAILWAY ENGINE RESEARCH (ES)~ ^ SEISMOGRAPH(S)— Question re— Question re— Gaihoon samhandhi auusarifihan. Seismographs. 1297. 1278-79 SEN, SHRIMATT SUSHAMA— —— in Rayon. 1282-83. Question (Supplementary) by— ------schemes on cashew-nuts 1297-98. Family planning. 1271. RESEARCH INSTITUTE(S)— SHARMA, SHRI D. C.— Question re— Question by— Central------. 1283. Employment Exchanges in REVENUES— Punjab. 1298. Question re— Family planning. 1270—72. Arrears of telephone------. 1257— Food controls, 1251-52. 59. Occupational diseases. 1294. HICE— Question re— SHIP(S)— Central — Research Station, Cuttack. 1296. Question re— Japanese method of cultiva- Indian shipping. 1279—81, 1806 tion. 1284. 07. I RUSSIA— Question re— SHIPPING COMPANIES, INDIAN^- Russian tractors. 1257. (Question re— S Indian Shipping. 1306-07. SAKRI RAILWAY STATION-^ SINGH. SHRI M. N.~ Question re— Question by— Sakri station. 1290. Railon par bhojan vyavaatfia, SAMANTA, SHRI S. C.— ^ 1263 64 Question by— Railway tickets. 1287-88. SINGHAL, SHRI S. C.— Training of Indians in Hsheiiesi. Question by— 1292-93. Catering on Railways. 1298-99. SANGANNA, SHRI-- Question by— SINHA, SHRI JHULAN— Central Rice Research Station, Question by— Cuttack. 1295-96. Panchayats. 1290-91. Barharia Police Station men tar “Pay after-harvest” loans. 1311. ghar Railway employees. 1311. ^ ?rrm )i254. Scarcity of wheat in Orissa. 1280 90. Government Hydrogenation Factory at Kozhikode. 1807^8. SATYAWADI, DR.— Naye Stationon ka khola jana, Question by— Landless labourers. 1288. (*i^ w arm) taor. 270 INDEX TO DEBATES, PART I, lOTH DECEMBER, 1954 SINHA, SHRIMATI TARKESHWARI— STRIKE(S)-- Question by— Question re— Indian shipping. 1279—81. ------in Bengal Provincial Rail Telegraph and telephone wires. way. 1289. 1259-60, U.S.A. surplus wheat. 1295. SUGAR— ‘Viscounts' aircrafts. 1308. Question re— Question (Supplementary) by- Sugar-cane. 1286. Indian farm boys. 1266. ------industry. 1287. Price of sugar cane. 1255. SUGAR-CANE— SINHA, THAKUR JUGAL Question KISHORE— Price of 1254-58. Question by Sugar-cane. 1286. Bridges on national highways. 1292. Sugar industry. 1287. SUGAR-CANE GROWER(S)— Question re— “Pay after-harvest” loana. ISll. SODHIA, SHRI K. C.— Question by— SULEBHAVI STATION— Central Tractor Organisation. Question re— 1314. Corruption among Radlway staiT. Cess on oils. 1255-56. 1272-73. Purchase of super-constellation aircrafts. 1281-82. Question (Supplementary) by— Chittaranjan men Railway enginon TELEGRAPH OFFICJ^— ka kafkhana. ^ Question re— ^ 1263. Barharia Police Station mtn tar ghat. STATE(S)— ^ mrwK) vtu. Question Central Tractor Organisation. 1314. TELEGRAPH WIR1!(S)— Question re— Gaihoon sambandh anusandhon. ------and telephone win». 1259-60. 3R!^fV|R) 1278-79. Health visitors. 1285-86. Homoeopathic system. 1305. TELEPHONE INDUSTRY(U:S), Railway aahkari adhar par INDIAN— tractoron ka upyog. Question (iwi STORE(S)— TELEPHONE WIRE(S)— Question Question ------Purchase Policy. 1302. Telegraph and 1259-60. 271 LOK SABHA THEFT— TB^y^COBS-COCHIN— Question Question re— .. —r of cfi^al at Palezaghat. 1310. Ca^hewnut industry. 1269-70. THIMMAIAH, SHRI- TUBE-WELLS— Question re— Question by— ' irrigation facilities in Punjab. Indian Telephone Industries, 1268-69. Bangalore, 1285. !Pube-welljr. 1316. THOMAS, SHK2 A. M.— Question (Supplementary) by— U Arrears of telepligne revenues. 1259. yNI7)CD STATW CME^ AMERICA— TiwARY, jwworr D. N.— 5ce ‘‘America, United Stulos of:. Question by— UPADHYAY, PANDIT MimiSHWAR Railway employees. 1283. EHafav- Theft of coal at Palezaghat 1310. Question by— Sugar-cane. 1286. TOURIST(S)— ,-ftuestiQO re— —- traffic. 1287. VANASPATI— TRACTOB(S)— re— , Question Government Hydrogenation Cental — Organwtion. 1814. Factory At Koi^ode. Ii807-08. Railway sahkari adhar par tractoron ka upyog. VELAYUDHAN, JSHRI— Question (l^u^plem^^tary) by—- Cashewnut industry, 1270. TT 3 TRAM WAYS- W Question re— WHEAT— Tram cars in Delhi. 1309-10. Question re— Gaihoofi scLmbaruifii an^andhan, TRANSPORT— Question re— i2Vfi-79. Working of Delhi —^— Service. Scarcity of----- in Orissa, 1289-90. 1311-12. U.S.A. surplus ^------. 1296. 27Z LOK SABHA DEBATES Datjd....2,':^j[L%pJ. (Part II—Proceedings other than Questions and Answers) 2409 2410 LOK SABHA Shri A. K. Gopalan (Cannannre): Before speaking about the Act, I have Friday, 10th December, 1954 to say that already petitions signed by 7,000 people have been submitted. I have here before me a petition The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the signed by several thousands which I - Clock, wi'll be submitting before the Petitions Committee. I have also before me [Mr. D eputy-Speaker in the Chair.] two petitions, from the lawyers of Bombay, about 75 of them, and from QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS the lawyers of Calcutta, about 85^ (See Part I) ■niese itetitdons are here. The peti tions show that they are all against extension of the Preventive Detention Act. I will be submitting these peti- 12 Noon ti'ons. My amendment was that the Act should be circulated for eliciting PAPER LAID ON THE TABLE public ODinion, These petitions sign ed by different kinds of people show N otification Under Sea Customs Act that the people want fhat the Preven The Minister .of Revenue and tive Detention Act should not be ex Defence Expenditure (Shri A. C. tended. Guha): I beg to lay on the Table a copy of the Customs Notification Yesterday I pointed out that the Pre No. 115, dated the 2nd October, 1954, ventive Detention Act, meant to keep under sub-section (4) of section 43B persons without trial inside jail, had of the Sea Customs Act, 1878 as Insert been before the country in one form or ed by the Sea Customs (Amendment another from 1940 onwards. At that Act, 1953. [Pioced in Library. See time, it was in the name of the De No. S-470/54.] fence of India Act, the Public Safety Act or the Public Security Act. From 1950, that Act has been functitoning as PREVENTIVE DETENTION (AMEND the Preventive Detention Act. Whe MENT) BILI^ontd. ther it is called the Preventive Deten tion Act or the Public Safety Act or Mr. Speaker: The House will now the Defence of India Act, the purpose proceed with the further considera of the Act was to keep persons inside tion of the following motion moved by the jail without trial. In 1950 and Dr. Katju yesterday: 1951, when the Preventive Detention "That the Bill further t'o amend Act was placed before Parliament, if the Preventive Detention Act, you look into the proceedings, you will 1950. be taken into consideration.” find that the late Sardar Patel, and Shri Rajagonalachari had shown some There are amendments also noved kind of reluctance. They were apo to that motion. They will also be taken logetic and they saia that they were Into consideration along with the sorry that the circumstances had made »nain motion. them to place such an Act before Par- S51 LSD ' 2411 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2412 [Shri A. K. Gopalan] «iey have said that the Preventive liament, and ask Parliament I0 pass Detention Act should not be used to it. times of peace. There have been so [Shri Bar m an in the Chair] many thousands of cases where the They said that it was only for one detenus were released because they year and if the circumstances were found that on the grounds of detention better, it will not continue. Yester also, they should not be dtetained. day, the Home Minister, while piec — Not only that. WhiSe icLeasing the ing the Bill before us, not only did people, they also questioned the very not show the same kind of attitude principle of the Preventive Detention that was there when the Home Minis Act and said that in no civilised coun ters placed this Act before the House try in the world is such an Act used. in 1950 and 1951, but also pooh-poohed This is not saia by me or by the com the ver.y idea of fundamental liberty. munists. It was said by the highest He ^aid that there will be copy book judilcial tribunals in this rountry. It speeches, and other things. We are was said in 1952. very sorry that even the fundamental It iSs not creditable for a democratic -principles of liberty and other things Government to olead inability to had been pooh-poohed. His express govern the people by the ordinary ions while introducing this Bill were laws. It is deplorable that the Gov quite different from what they were ernment should fail to understand that in 1950 and 1951. democracy is indivisible and that This Preventive Detention Act is a authority cannot vilolate some 01 its lawless Act. This law cuts across all fundamental principles and simulta the provisions with regard to funda neously proclaim its faith in the mental rights, and provisions with re creed. Laws like the Preventive Deten gard to solemnity and sacredness of tion Act are a gross negation of indi civil liberty and human rifehts. It vidual liberty aiij freedom of ex makes the common law sterile. This pression. It is no argument for Bill is an instrument of oppression and invading democratic rights to plead even of executive error. tHat a parlUcvCar ‘democracy is stiEl in the making. (Jn the contrary, if I want to quote one para from a faith in democracy is to grow, it judgment given by the Chief Justice becomes all the more necessary that of the Supreme Court today. Justice democracy in both spirit and form of Mahajan said: that no country in the a cheri'shed creed are observed. I world had a law lifke this, namely, the shall come to that point later about Preventive Detention Act, which the fundamental rights and under keeps people confined without trial in what circumstances they should be times of peace. In fact a Government curtailed. ■which reauires such a law for govern The next point that I have to make ing in times of peace is not a civilised is this. The very people who were Government. If thi's had been said sufleifers at the hands of a regime by us, it would have been said that whSch resortetf 10 detention without it is a copy book recital or something trial find i^t necessary to enact a like that. This is what the Chief Jus measure of this description. We have tice of the Supreme Court of India, not forgotten how, when the Howlatt the highest judicial tribunal >n this Act was there, from one end of the country, sai'd' while dealing with the country to another, we agitated against Preventive Detention Act, while look- that Act. We thought that it' was ine into the grounds of detention and something that was against the libert other things. What is the meanimg of andl rights of the people. There that? I do not want to quote the one argument agflJnst this: that is, th judgments of the other Judges of the times have changed. The British .Supreme Court and other High Courts. power has gone and those who are 2415 PTeventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2416 [Siri A. K. Gopalan] He wrote it in 1848. If he had known only the other day, about fifteen days that in 1954 there would be ^ our back, that our Prime Minister made Home Minister, the hon. Dr. Katju, a speech in which he said that re he would never have written in that markable progress had been made way, he would have written In a since independence and that it com stronger way. He did not know pared favourably with the progress that. The Home Minister quoted the made bj other countries; that the Manifesto and said: “Here is countrya had no doubt been making Manifesto written by Marx in which rapiU progress and that those who had he says so many things. So, Preven the good of the country at heart would tive Detention must be extended'. I counsel patience. This shows that, never thought that to extend an Act there is rapid progress in the country, like the Praventive Detention Act there is development in the country, which was there in this country for there is peace and prosperity in the the last seven .years, he would have country; and when there is peace and advanced this argument. There were prosperity in the country, when the other Resolutions of the Communist country is developing, when there ^ Party with which I am going to deal no discontent in the country, why is afterwards. What Is the Resolution it that the Preventive Detention Act of the Communist Party? What is should be extended for three years. the meaning of the Resolution of the Either his statement that there is Cftmmuntet Party? Does it warrant peace and prosperity in the country is that there must be the Preventive wrong, or, if there is peace and Detention Act and it must continue. prosperity in the country, the Pre If it warrants that, then let it not be ventive Detention Act should not con for three years, let it find a place in tinue. Both of them cannot go to the statute-book itself tor ever; let gether. If rapid progress is being it be the common law of the country, made, there will be certainly no if the Resolution of the Communist chaos, there will be no discontent be Party is the reason why the Preven cause the progress is the progress of tive Detention Act is being extended. the people. If it ite the progress of the people and if it is rapid, and if The Minister of Home Affairs and there is peace and prosperity in the States (Dr. Katlu): It is one of the country, then, five years after the reasons. Preventive Detention Act came into force, there is no need to continue it Shri A. K. Gopalan: As far as the for another three years. So, when basite is concerned, it has been very you make a statement or when you clearly stated by the Home Minister say that there is peace and prospe that there are many States where rity and happiness in the country, the Government has not found it and at the same time you come be necessary to detain anybod.y, and in fore Parliament and say there must other States action has been taken, be the Preventive Detention Act be but the number is very small. This cause there is an emergency in the statement itself is a confession that country, all the people in the country the Preventive Detentibn Act is not at are against you, the people are re all necessary. Here is a report about volting. there are strikes, there is the offences committed and the peo violence against the Ctovemment to ple detained. L/ooking into the report, day, then, these two cannot go to one would say that certainly the ordi gether. If the facts that are stated nary law in the country would be are correct, certainly there is no enough to deal with them. need' for Preventive Detention, be cause for any act of violence in the Then, what is the situation in ihe Criminal Procedure Code as well as country today? We know that is was in the other Codes there are laws b.v PreventiiJC Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2418 2417 civUized countries if a man is arrest which the man lean certainly be ed, he put before a Court of law punished. And it was only the other which wUl consider the evidence day that we amended the Criminal against him and come to a decision Procedure Code. We amended it so according to law. that there may be more powers to suppress the people. It has been amended in such a way that drastic I have pointed out that from 1947 acaon can be taken, sd that in res so many charges were given. Grounds pect of anything that happens in the of detention were found out. As I country quick action may be taken said' last time when we were debating and speedy trial also may be there. this Bill in 1952 one of the grounds So, when a man has committed* an of detention was that the man had offence, when he is about to commit been wearing a red cap and white an offence and when he is incitilng or pajama. After that when the High dnstigating others to commit an Court and -the Supreme Court said, offence,'for all these things in the “the grounds of detention are Ajad; ordinary law of the country there there is nothing in them which shows are laws, and we have also amended that the man should be detained”. them. If it ite necessary, we can Now the ground of detention given amend them also at other times to was that he was preaching violence suit the conditions, but why extend and was about to act in a particular this Preventive Detention Act which manner. How is ilt? Who gave the has been condemned not only by us, report? It is on the basis of the re but, as I pointed out in the beginn port of a policeman who alleged that ing, even by the Hifehest Judges in this man was preaching violence and the country who have said that no that he was about to act in a parti Government using preventive deten cular manner. When it is on the tion d'uring times of peace is a civi- report of a single individual, why not lispd Government. give the man an opportunity to say whether he has done it. If a man is preaching violence, there are sec Then, the old argument which tions in the Criminal Procedure Code comes out is that ilt is better to under which we can proceed against prevent the mischief than punish a him. Give him an opportunity and man when he has committed it. U then punish him. Punish him for that is so, then all regulatory and the first time only under that Act. punitive laws should be scrapped and Here onlyf the charge-sheet is there pre(ventive detention must t>e made and there are some grounds given. to include all manner of conceivable The charge-sheet says, “in 1953 this offences. There i(s no need for law man was walking; about that rrull.” at all. All crimes can be prevented The names of some mills are given— by outting people under detention. If “he was around these mills”. Then a man commits an offence, prosecute afterwards, it is said, he was preach him under the existing law and put ing violence. The grounds of dteten- him up for trial before a Court. If tion are there. If these are put be a man commits an offence or attempts fore a Court of law and if the man to commit an offence or abets is given an opportunity, you will the commission of an offence, the find that there is nothing in the case. ordinary law iis there and he will He has not done anything. The have to face a trial before a Court of ground is that a certain person sus Law. How ca-n we know that the man pects that this man is going to create is going to commit an act unless he trouble. The ground of suspicion is makes some preparation ftjr It? based on his own understanding. His When he is making some preparatiton, ■understanding may be wrong. So it is we proceed on the evidence of spies necessary to see whether there are and informants. That is why in all 'aws ic -his country by which we 2420 2419 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill [Shri A. K. Gopalan] may get him convicted for an offence. should be an understanding of the That must be the method and not the reai situation. Preventive Detention Act. which upon It is said that people are arrested. the suspicion of a man, upon the will There is student agitation, kisan agi- of a certain individual puts the man taaon, labour agitation and so on. in Jail. If the words ‘violence’ or This labour agitation is a real prob ‘preaching violence’ are to be put lem. What is the real cause of the there, everybody can report. A kisan agitation and* the labour agi policeman can send a report and say, tation? What is it that the Govern he is preaching violence. ment has to do? Is it to extend the In 1951, Sri Rajagopalachari said; Preventive Detention Act for another three years? Is it to leave the situa “Dealing with the points that tion in the country as it is to-day and have been raided in the course then say, these people are creatihg of the discussion, that mere pre chaos in the country, so use all the ventive measures of the sort wiU other law"! and also the Preventive not solve the problems of all our Detention Act? difficulties, we have to act at both ends. Ws have to take I will now come to some of the c»onstructive measures for the points that had been raiised by the amelioration of the conditions hon. Minister yesterday. of the masses. We have to make people contented and happy. We He quoted as follows:— know that it is the best preven tive measure.” “Even the most hardened liberal would now feel ashamed to main tain, let alone the Communist The continuation of the Preventive Party and other democrats and Detention Act for three years has not revolutionaries, that this Govern helped to make the people contented ment and the classes that keep it and haM>y. It is not a constructive in power will ever allow us to measure for the amelioration of the carry out a fundamental demo- conditions of the people. Sir, the cratit transformation in the coun - Government cannot stop chaos in the try by parliamentary methods country by the Preventive Detention alone. Hence, the road that will Act. What is the cause of the imrest lead Us to freed*om and peace, of the people and why are the people land and bread, as outlined in the dissatisfied? It is the e<’Onomic con Programme of the Party, has to dition in the country to-day. Until be found pl.wwhere.” and unless the Government is ab!e to make people understand that they are This was Quoted yesterday as the going in the rifeht oath, the position policy of the Communist Party and in the country cannot be tackled. To it was sai(3 that this was the policy day for some reason or other, the of the Communist Party in 1951. I country is suffering from great frus do not want to go ilnto the details tration. When people think that they of the policy of the Communist are not able to come out of the exist Party to-day, but in 1951 this .was ing condition, then they become written. What is there in it to make desperate and reckless. People feel the Home Minister say that this distressed and oppressed by the way policy is bad? It ite said in this that in wftiioh things ane moving. Wlhat the fundamental democratic trans is the Government’s solution to this formation in the country by parlia problem? There must be peace and mentary methods atone cannot be prosperity in India, and itt there is made, because there are several ins to be peace and prosperity, there tances to show that. 2^1 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2422 In the world to-day, we have seen • It was said yesterday that this Act what happened in Spain; what hap is not intended against any political pened in Germany and what happen party in the country. But among ed in British Guittna, What is it those who are arrested, many are for that people do there? What is it preaching violence. Among the 261 that people want? What d^d the who are arrested, 74 are communists, ruling class do there? What did' the 47 are members belonging to other class that was in cower do? Di [Shri A. K. Gop^lan] the demand of the people. Govern there is a struggle in the satyagraha ment will see that the .satyagraha is form, you understand that the people started. Government will then deal are peaceful. Still lathis are used with the people in such a way that and used to such an extent that after using them, the police and the officers it will result in firing and killing of so concerned rise to a higher level and many people, and the responsibility will be placed on some other persons there will be shooting and then you can call it as violence and everything else. who are not at fault. You do not enact legislation for preventing even What is the root cause of all these such a silly thing as eviction. In things? Sir, unless and until the eco Bihar, Madras, West Bengal and other nomic situation in the country is places—I do not want to give the list changed, unless and until the very now —several thousands and lakhs of minimum things needed by the people petople are being evicted forcibly. are provided, things will not improve. We are not saying that drastic things The Prime Minister, when he went to Punjab, said there must be an Ordi must be done. I know of instances in Malabar. There are several thousand nance. He knew that the eviction had been so much in Punjab and the acres of fallow land in the country. people were suffering so much, that They are in the hands of the Govern an Ordinance was necessary. I say ment. In Malabar, there was an agi that lakhs and lakhs of people are tation for the last two years. I my being evicted. It is only at the last self have sent petitions to the Govern moment that the Government step in ment saying that these fallow lands— and stop the eviction. Why did they about 2,000 acres of fallow land— not do anything for the last so many which are lying idle without being years when the people said, ‘we are cultivated for several years should be in the land; it is our land; we have cultivated. They were in the hands worked on the land for several years, of a landlord; he had no heir when he we want to improve the land’? When died. It came in Government’s pos these people are evicted, when these session. They have sent petitions people are thrown away, among those session they have sent notices and now who resist are called the ‘anti-social' they are going to offer satyagraha. elements and the other people who What happens is that till the persons are responsible for this are protected. begin sftyagraha, nothing will be done. The land will not be given. I can understand ifc the land belonging to a Mr. Chairman: I would like to re private zamindar is not given, but mind group leaders that generally what about land belonging to the Gov the time fixed for them is half an ernment? This agitation is not confin hour. The hon. Member has already ed to the Communist Party; it is the taken half an hour. agitation of all the Parties together. They say, give us the land, we want to produce more, we want to produce Shri A. K. Gopalan: I wiU finish for ourselves, we want to produce for now. The only point that I would the country. It is not a violent act; emphasise is that H is because of the it is not an anti-social act; it is an act fact that the Government do not see to help the country; it is a patriotic what the conditions in the country ' act. Why do the Government not are, it is because of the fact that the respond to it? Now, when the satya Government do not see why there graha begins, you can understand that is so much agitation in the country, there will .be lathi charges, there will that there is the kisan strike, there be firing and a big case will be made is the labour strike. All these things that these people, anti-social people, are there because the minimum, ne instigating violence and all those things cessary things, required by the people. have done that. Instead of conceding are not provided, _ 2425 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBKR 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2426 I do not wish to go into details Harijan was burpt by the goondas of about how many persons have been some rich people. It was only after arrested and why they had been ar agitation, after the hon. Member, Shri rested. Other hon. Members who will Kelappan, and others held a meeting speak will deal with them; I have that something was done. Not only no time to do so. I have only to say that; a man who was standing, who this. Yesterday the Home Minister looked at the place when it was said ‘I claim that I represent the burnt, was beaten by the police. Two public opinion of the whole country’. months ago in the Charakal taluk of If he represents public opinion of tte Malabar, there were 8 murder cases. whole country, I have only one thing They happened in day-time as well to say. The elections in Andhra are as night-time. If murder is not vio coming in February. Will the Home lence, I do not know what it is. Minister and the Government be ready But nothing is traced. People said, to make this the issue? If they are ‘here are the witnesses; these people the sole representatives of the people are the witnesses; they have seen it’. of the whole country, and if the Pre But nothing has been done. This is ventive Detention Act is a very rea not only in one part of the country. sonable thing, I ask them, why not I will give a list to the Home Minis make the Preventive Detention Act ter. In the country today, a man can an issue in the election and get the be killed; the only thing i-s that you verdict of the people? That is the should have money. Even congress best way in which it can be done. men are not excepted. In a place c^ed Putoli, 3 miles from Kozhikode, Dr. Katju: Yes. a young man of 25 years, was killed. Shri A. K. Gopalan: If the Preven The village munsif himself gave a tive Detention Act is a peaceful thing, statement that he was murdered. The if it is a reasonable measure and ins doctor also said that he was mur tead of one year, it can be extended dered. But no action has been taken to three years, put this before the against the murderers. Law and people and let them say------order is to be maintained in this country and for that preventive de Shri S. S. More: Are we to take tt' tention is there; it is not the case. It as a motion for the adjournment of is only for the next three years be the consideration of this Bill till the cause it is only to win the next elec elections are held? tion. Before three years are over, the next elections will come. In the Shri A. K. Gopalan: I have said in name of kisan struggle, in the name my amendment that this Bill must be of labour trouble, in the name of circulated. So I say, let us put it some agitation of the political parties, before the people. Let this be the the opponents, all those whom they only issue. That is the best and most want to put inside jail, they are doing peaceful way of doing it—with no this. It is not due to a desire to violence. On the one hand, let the maintain law and order in thi.i Government say that the condition of country. If that were so, even the the country is so bad that the Pre petitions sent by the Members ol ventive Detention Act is necessary; on Parliament—I will show them to the the other, let them say there is peace, Home Minister—regarding murder prosperity and happiness everywhere. cases happening, would have been considered. There are so many ins Several times. Dr. Katju says that tances of burning of houses in the law and order should be maintained day-time. In not a single case has —as if law and order is maintained action been taken. I have writter very well. It is not because there is several letters and I have got th< no Preventive Detention Act. Some reply from the I.G., Madras; nothini of the hon. Members of this House is done. Today, as far as my part ce. know that in Kozhikode, one month the country is concerned, everybod; «sa. at 12 O’clock, the house of a is afraid. There is a river callet 2427 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2428 LShri A. K. Gopalanl , Parok. If any one comes by the We have experience of the world. In some countries, there were people 12 O’clock train, he is sure to be kill who professed themselves to be de ed. There is a dark passage there. If mocrats and who attacked the ma any persons come with money there, chine of democracy in the name the next morning you will see the dead of democracy. They took undue ad bodies floating in the river. It has vantage of the democratic freedom been reported and taken to the notice that prevailed in those countries and of the LG. also by the representatives attacked democracy and they remov of the people. It is not a question of ed democracy from those countries maintaing law and order. It is only and have established some sort of for seeing that those who take up the dictatorship. That is the experience cause of the people—if they come out we have from other countries. What with their grievances—those political is happening today in our country? parties who take up the cause of the The hon. Home Minister must have people and come forward to help much more information than any or them, are suppressed. Otherwise, dinary gentleman. But, as one mov people do not want this Preventive ing amongst the people, I am con Detention Act. We have got thousands vinced that even today there are of petitions. Let it be put before many individuals in our society who the country as an election issue; do not believe in democracy, who do let the opinion of the people be taken not believe in peaceful methods. whether they want an extension of In spite of their public professions the Preventive Detention Act or not. and utterances, they do believe in Otherwise, let the ordinary law apply violent methods and they want to and let the life of this Act not be undo democracy and they want to extended. establish a sort of dictatorship in this country. For that purpose, they catch This is all I have to submit and I very strongly oppose the Bill. Even hold of students, they catch hold of peasants and any small grievance is at the introduction stage I said that taken undue advantage of and an it was not necessary and we still say attempt is made to instigate Violen that it will never help the Govern ce. There are individuals who have ment in maintaining law and order in organised violence and they are or this country. ganising it by secret methods. Shri G. H. Deshpande (Nasik—Cen There is calm in the country no tral): I rise to support the Bill and doubt. Peaceful work is going on in oppose the amendments. I rise to the country no doubt. A measure of support the Bill because I sincerely prosperity has been achieved in this think that in the interests of demo country during the last seven years cracy and the development of the no doubt. All that has been done in country on peaceful lines, such a spite of the Indian communist, and I measure for a few years is absolutely would like to tell my communist necessary. friends that, they have not helped us in doing this and we have done An Hon. Member: No. it in spite of them. But, what is their record? What are they doing? He Shri G. H. Deshpande: I have listen read out certain resolutions of last ed to the speech of the leader of the year. There were some criticisms in Communist Group for the last 40 this House about the resolutions that minutes very carefully. Yesterday were passed by the Communist Party also I tried to listen to the speech at Madurai. Some friend has pub of the Member of the Socialist Party. lished a book in which he has stated I am convinced after these speeches what the real intention behind those that there is nothing wrong in intro resolutions was, what secret deci ducing a Bill of the nature of the one sions were arrived at. And, then, ■we are having at present. when that book was mentioned in 2^29 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (.Amendment) Bill 2430 this hon. House, they said, ‘Oh! it is services are going to be terminatedl. falsehold’. I thought they would go The students want that he should get to a court of law and they would an extension for a couple of years. prove that it is falsehood. But the The students go to the authorities and very fact that our communist friends the authoritites say, ‘Well, students, did not choose to go to a court of law , we have given you a patient hearing proves that the book is true and but we think it is not desirable to •what is said of the Communist move extend the period of this Principal’. ment in that book is also true. Shrt V. G. Deshpande (Guna): On Shrimati Renu ChakraTartty; For a point of order, Si*r. The matter everything we are not going to a court that is being referred to is the sub of law. ject of judicial ^enquiry. Therefore, it was .stated yesterday that a refe Shrl G. H, Deshpande: They may rence to the Indore firing should not not. Now, it is the turn of others. Communists say, such and such a be made. Minister is attacked many times in the Shri G. H. Deshpande: I do not press. Why should he not go to a want to refer to the Indore firing. I court of law and get his innocence do not know if my hon. friend has proved? I ask them that same ques any hand in the movement. I do not tion. In Marathi, there is a saying; want to refer to ilt. I know that it is sub judice. I am not a new man to ifer ?kr ^ tnf ^ 1 such sort of Houses and I do not want to indulge in criticisms of a matter which is sub judice. I want to quote They said so many times in thite an instance. I say, supposing it is House that a particular Minister only the question of the extension of having been attacked in Press a hun the period of the Principal of a college dred times and not having chosen to and the students' want to take the go to a court of law, cannot say that law into their own hands an LShri G. H. Deshpandel goondas and people indulging in vio some people in this country who are lence should be allowed to ccanmit always out to discredit everything that these acts fir^t, they should oe allowed ■ comes from this country. to dislocate communications first, A reference was made by my hon. they should be allowed to burn build friend, my predecessor—the Commu ings first and then Government should nist friend. He said: "Oh: in no take action? People do not want that civMised country there is such a sort sort of Government. Things of the of an Act.” I hope in his opinion nature which I described have hap Russia is a civilised country. pened F.nd if this Act will not be there, there will be a repetition of them. Shri A. K. Gopalan: Justice Maha- jan said that. If was said: “Why not punish an Shri G. H. Deshpande: What sort of offender by an ordinary law?” Ordi freedom is there in Russia?, Was nary offenders can be dealt with by there any freedom. Sir, in Russia for ordinary law. but for extraordinary Lenin—I am sorry. Trotsky—I mean offenders some sort of extracrdmary for Trotsky. Do not laugh; I know- measure is absolutely necessary. much about Russia; much more about After all, democracy in this country Russia than youpself. Silr, be laughs today is ih its infancy. It is only lor best who laughs last. How was the last 7 years that we are working. Trotsky treated? Then we were told': We have recently stepped into the “ What procedure you have? A fair trial must be there.” Was Beria eighth year. The edifice of freedom is being built with the co-operation of given a fair trial? Is that a model of trial that you place before us? the people and we are paying too Beria had certain different ideologies _ heavy a price for that. The posterity will blame us itf we will allow a few Was he produced' before the Court? Here, for our detenus we allow them hot-heated people to undo this good io come in person before the Court. work. If we allow people in the We allow them to appear before the name of democracy to attack demo Court. We give them so many facili cracy they will finish democracy in ties. They can have interviews. They this country. Not only there are indi can see their own relatives. Is that viduals in this country who have no allowed in Russia? Was any detenu faith in democracy, but there are in given a fair trial in Russia? dividuals in this country who are acting according to the instructions Shri A. K. Gopahm: Come to me; I that they receive from outsitite. They will tell you what happens there. You never take their own decisions. They are isnorant. are intelligent people, no doubt; they have good brains, no doubt; but the Shri G. H. Deshpande: I know brains are completely mortgaged. everything. They never take the initiative. They Mr. Chalrmaii: Order, order. I are not the masters of their actions. tfiihk it is not good for us to go into They simply follow the instriictions the administration of another country. that they receive from certain ciuarters. That thing happened in this country Shri G. H, Deshpande; Sir, I do not for the last 20 or 25 years and that want to go into the administration of is happening even today in this coun any other country#; but it was said try. So, We know not when some that in many civilised countries there instructions will be received from are better civil liberties and better some quarters and what will the con indlvltSual freedom. I thought that in sequences of it. . We have to take In the opinion of my Communist friend to consideration that factor. There are Russia was a cMUsed country. But, 3433 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2434. in Russia there are no civil liberties What I want to say is that, in my which can be comj>ared with the humble opinion, taking the world as civil liberties that are enjoyed here in it is and the situation in the country India by the Indian Communists and as it prevails, we know not what will everybody else. happen at a particular moment. So, it is better to have this sort of inea-' What was done by the Act? After sure in the armoury of the Govern all, the Act did not suppress any poli ment. As far as possible we do noi tical party in this country. There want to use it. was a mention that in such and such a case, such and such a man belonging We know from statistics that in the to such and such a party was detained'. past it was used very sparingly. It But, he was detained for his individual was said: “You are extending an Act arts of violence. It is not that there which is a ‘black Act’ ”. It is not ’’'as anv attempt to suppress the party. a ‘black Act’. It is not the Act as it was then that we are extending. It was said: “Oh, you are having There was much improvement made elections and tor that you want this last time. As a matter of fact this Act.” We do not want it for the sake Act cannot be said even an “Extra of elections. For Sections we have ordinary Art”. It also provides our own work before the people. you with fair trial. It provides Pe'ople know us far better and in you with special appearance spite of the fact that an Act which before a very high judical "was much more stringent than this, authority. It d^nes the term of when that Act was on the Statute imprisonment. It gives you the exact Book, and when this very party was grounds on which you are detained. responsible for that rigorous Act, we And, from the proceedings and from -went to the j>olls and we won it be the statistics that we have, we know cause the people have a better sense how fairly it was administered. So, of realisation. They knew that such neither the Act is ‘black’ nor it was an Act was necessary. That is used very rigorously. The necessity why they have returned us with such of the Act is there, no doubt. No a tremendous majority as we have In doubt, there is prosperity. No doubt, all parts of the country. for the present there is peace. We want to continue this prosperity. If Shrimati Rena Chakravartty: We we want to continue movements for have also been returned. furtherance of economic advance ment. there must be peace in the Shri G. H. Deshpande: It was said: country. There must be tranquillity “Oh! what will happen in Andhra?” in the country. People must not be We will see what will happen in allowed to break the peace. Andhra. We are not afraid of it and There ' must not be acts of we ititend to place this special Act violence. We are trying to before the people. People know what iticrease amenities for communications, We are doing. We do not believe in but there are friends who want to secret movements. Whatever we are dislocate communications. I (Jo not doing, we do it openly. We will tell believe that there is any reason for the people of Andhra that there was students, or for the labour, or for the the necessity /or sucb an Act land peasants to be afraid of this Act. so we are passing such an Act and They can carry on movements. All we are prepared to take the results parties can carry on movements ac ■because we think that it, is a neces cording to their own likes; but the sity. We will win the elections or movements must be peaceful. That lose the elections: but we will always is the onlv thine. If vou orsanise stand by the right thing. Nobody can yourself in a secret manner; if you 3ring us down on that matter. collect arms; if you instigate students 2435 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (.Amendment) Bill 2436 [Shri G. H. Deshpande] this obnoxibus measure on the Statute and' then take advantage of certaih Book of this country. situations to have your programme ol 1 P.M. violence, we want to prevent you from doing that Act. Is there any Wlhat is the justificatton that the- thing wrong in that? II we do not do hon. Home Minister advances for it, then we will be failing in our duty. continuing this obnoxious measure for a further period of three years? Is there any crisis existing in any So, I want to tell the Home Minister part of the country? Is there any ithat we also, on this side, are state of emergency existing in an.y moving amongst the people every part of the country? I may tell you day. We have got our fingers '.m the that there might have been revolu pulse of the people and we say that tions of several types in this country people are convinced that such an Act especially after Independence; there lor the present Us absolutely necessary. might have been revolutions from the Let them say that we are not demo Scheduled Caste people who have crats. People do understand that we been oppressed and suppressed' by the are democrats, and it :s the Commu Brahmins and the caste Hindus I'or nists who say that we are not demo thousands of years. The Scheduled crats. So, I would tell the Govern Caste people are even today being ' ment not to go down in history as a ill-treated by Brahmins and caste weak Government. II we show weak Hindus, but they have been very pa ness, if we do not allow a measure of tient and they are still expecting the this type to remain on the statute- caste HincJus to give them their due book, we know not what will happen freedom which is their birth right. If to this country and all the good work Dr. Ambedkar thinks of creating any done during the seven years will be trouble, if he thinks of rising i.T undone. Democracy will be destroyed revolt against the social Set-up, he and totalitarian government is likely will have done it, and even now if he to come into power. So, for prevent wants, he can do and create a ing that, we should do things sin deadlock in the country. There cerely, and to have a measure of this might have been a revolution type is absolutely necessary. I, from the workers. The workers therefore, support it with all my constitute more than 90 per strength. cent, of the population of the country they are manual labourers; Shri Veeraswamy (Mayuram-Re- they work in the fields, they work in served—Sch. Castes): It is a shame to the mills and industries and they the party in power and especially to work in every field ol actitvity. But the Government headed by Pandift the workers have been kept just like Jawaharlal Nehru who is a lover of slaves in deplorable conditions of d'emocracy. to have this measure con living and if they think of revolting tinuously for more than four years in against the Government of the day. the statute-book of this country. The they can do. There are parties in the j Preventive Detention Act has been ' country which have been working for ’ on the Statute Book for more than the uplift of the workers, for the four years and the hon. Home Minis progress and improvement in the ter still wants to continue it for a living conditions of the workers; al further period of three years. . If the most all parties have taken to the Home Minister is a lover of demo democratic line of work, and so, Iney cracy, if he has got any confidence do noft want to create troubles or In the people and if he wants to work deadlocks and disturb the peace of the out the Constitution giving the free country. They expect the party In doms guaranteed to the people, he power to solve the problems of the would have never dreamt of putting workers ki a peaceful and democratic 243y Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2438 refer in this connectibn to the fact manner, and 30, they have not re volted or rebelled against the Gov that when Police Action was taken ernment. against Hyderabad, Periyar Ramas wami at once stopped the anti-Hindi agitation of the South with a view to I may also say that there might giving full co-operation to the Gov have been a rebellion from the op ernment to succeed in their Police pressed masses, that is, from the low Action against Hyderabad. castes against th^ high oastea We know that in this country there are I would like to refer to the recent more than 4,000 castes Irom Brahmins settlement of the bank disputes. downwards to panchamas. Among There was a crisis developing into a the Scheduled Castes alone, there are great danger so as to disturb the about 1.111 castes; among the non peace of the country and the bank Brahmins there are about 2,500 castes dispute was amicably settled by the and among the Brahmins alro there co-operatl'on of all the Opposition are about 500 castes, and .so, in this leaders. When the Opposition leaders, country there are more than 4,000 the Communist leaders, the P.S.P. castts. If the low castes think of creat leaders and leaders like Mr. B. ing trouble, think of rising in revolt Ramaehandra Reddi have shown their against the Government, which has not magnanimity in resolving that crisis, afiolished the caste system, they can when there is so much co-operation do, but they do not want to create any on the part of the Opposition Parties, such trouble and they do not want to the party in power, especially the hon. put obstacles in the way of peaceful Home Minister, must have come to progress of the country. a decision not to press this measure for the extension of ita )ifq by a When almost all oartifes, including further oeriod of three years. There the Communist Pariy, have taken to is no justification for continuing this the democratic line of work, where is measure. All the parties having faitli the necessity for the Government to in democracy may unite and decide to continue the life of this obnoxious defeat the Congress Party in the com Act for a further period of three ing Andhra elections because they years? I may also refer to the anti- may hold <^Jt this measure to the Hindi aigitatk)n in the South. The people who believe in democracy and anti-Hindi agitation has been going on canvass their support. The Congress for the past 16 years, and if Periyar Party can be defeated and I do ex Ramaswami, the accredited leader of pect that all the Opposittion Parties the Dravidians, thPnks of creating in AndEhra will ui [Shri Veeraswamy] . patriots aiiQ' belileve in non-violence, sayltig that undesirable as this mea as they say. What about the Cong sure is, circumstances in the ’ountry ress in 1942? The entire country was are such that it is necessary to ex plunged in non-violence! They de tend it or to continue it. But I am clare to the world that they are be surprised to find that there are per lievers in non-violence and that they sons here who are waxing eloquent in are followers of Mahatma Gandhi, the favour of this piece of legislation. exponent of peace and non-violence. It te true that our Constitution per The world knows and* everybody in mits or envisages circumstances in this House knows only too well that which such a piece ot legislation may the Congress created a lot of trouble become necessary, but what it per in this country when the country was mits it does not commanH. We have involved ih a world oonflagrafion. To got to make out a case; we have got to say that the Congress people alone analyse the existing situation, the are patriots and that they are alons prevailing circumstances and make nationalists is just to mock at natio out a case for such a piece of legi nalism and patriotism. slation, that only through such a The last point which I want to pu! legislation can the conditions be con forth in this House is my humble trolled and improved and that such appeal to the Home Minuter. Even a piece of legislation will enable the Deputy Minister is not here. He the Government to control and im is speaking to somebody there. prove the prevailing circumstances. I am surprised to find that The Deputy Minister of Home no effort has been made this Affairs (Shri Datar): I am following time whatsoever to .iustify the need the arguments very closely. for the legislation by the mover. In Shri Veeraswamy: Thank you very 1952, when he had come forward be much. If the party in power, es fore this House and supported the pecially if the Home Minister and continuance of this Act, he had said the Deputy Home Minister have any that there were three conditions that faith in democracy, if they want to necessitated such a continuance. The respect the Indian Constitution and if world situation demanded some such they want to take in the other parties extraordinary powers; the policy of also with them for the reconstruction partial de-control was likely to create of thite country, they must drop this a situation wherin it would be neces- meiasure and decOare to the people ■ sary to arm the Government with that this measure is dropped. They special powers, and there were the could have allowed the Preventive ' activities of parties taking advantage Detention Act to expire on the ori of the religious excitability of the ginal date of expiry with a view to people. These were the three condi get the co-operation of the people who tions then. Where do they stand to have taken to democratic lines. 1 day? There is no question of partial humbly submit tn the House and to de-control now; we have been able the hon. Ministers to consider these to put through a policy of de-control few points and to drop this measure and we are assured that, economically and get the goodwill of the people all speakifng, the conditions of our coun over the country and especi/ally of try is better than ever before. As far the parties which are opposed to the as world conditions are concerned', we Congress. are told that thanks to the remark able and shrewd statesmanshfi) of our Shri Asoka Mehta (Bhand^ra): I be Prime Minister the world situation is lieve there should be a general agree improving very fast and we have ment about the undesirability of this ' been able to establish friendly rela Act, I can understand the supporters tions with all countries of world. We ot thia measure coming forward and seerr. to be the one bridge, the sole 2441 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (.Amendment) Bill 2442 bridge that joins the two contending of assessment of the prevailing situa power blocks. II we are in such a tion is given to us, and we are just happy position, why is it necessary to told that it should be extended for a have this piece ol legislation? When period of three years. Why should we analyse the figures that are given tnat be so? When this particular here, we find that only three persons— measure was firsi brought up, the jusi three persons—were detained in touchstone was provided, the govern the last one year with a view to pre ing criterion was ofEered to us by venting them from acting in a Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel. He said: manner prejudicial to the defence of “ When you think of the ci^di India, the relationship of India with liberties of the extremely small foreign powers or the security of number of persons concerned, let India. 12 persons were arrested the House also think of the liber and detained for acting in a ties of the millions of people manner prejudicial to the maintenan threatened by the activities of ce of supplies and essential services. individuals whose activities we If you will analyse the table, you will have curtailed.” find that the majority of them—^per haps all twelve of them—could have Such a piece of legislation can be been dealt with under the ordinary brought forward only when there is law of the land. Eijght persons were a dangCT of a small group of men detained for launching illegal strikes indulging in activities which would against the Patna Electric Supply encroach upon or which would des Company. If they had launched' an troy the leberties of millions of illegal strike, I believe there is some people. Who are the people who are legislation which permits the Gov indulging in such activities? Where ernment to pivx^d against the men is this kind of threat? Is it imminent, who embark upon or who encourage is it a certain threat which cannot be or who foster illegal strikes. There is met by any other method? No such that ordinary law of the land. Why case has been made out whatsoever. is it ignored? Why is it by-passed, When this particular piece of legisla and why you must take recourse to tion was put on the Statute Book, this extraordinary piece of legislation? when it was continued, what was the threat?. Both Sardar Vallabhbhai Then again, it is amazing to find Patel and Shri Bajagopalachari— that when this Act was first framed, Sardar Patel in 1950 and Shri Eaja- after the people of India had estab gopalachar* in 1951—in justification of lished for themselves a Republic, this niece of legislation made pointed that is, in 1950, it was to reference to the Communist Party run for one year. Sardar and it was at that time that Shri Vallabhbhai Patel who sponsored Rajagopalachari had said: this particular piece of legisla "The ‘freedom’ that men who tion was most reluctant that such a are engaged in subversive activi- Bill should be put on the Statute tites and their fellow-travellers Book. Not only he was most reluc preach is a ‘freedom’ which they tant but he was most anxious that want for destroying freedom. such a Bill ^ould be removed from They want to secure the licence the statute-book as early as possible. which is necessary for them to In those days, when circumstances operate and the scope to exploit were really difficult, when a case thfe situation. The wtoole tech could' be made out—that lion-'hearted nique is camouflaged and conceiv man could well have m^de out a case ed on the assumption that we for such a piece of legislation—even shall stick to our principles then, it was limited to one year alone. blindfold and be deceived even Today, we are not told why this piece though expediency requires prac of legislation is necessary. No kind tical measures'...If we do not wish 551 LSD 2443 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2444 [Shri Asoka Mehta] to live in a monolithic structure Then again, we are told that this oi society but desire the principles Act is not being used against politi of individual freedom and ini cal parties. But what do we find? In tiative to be in operation along 1953 thirty-two persons belonging to with joint co-operative life, we different political parties were detain should! present a united front ed; in 1954 ninety-three. What ite the and not betray ourselves to reason? What happened in 1954? I furnish greater scope for the acti thought the year was comparatively vities of those whose single aim much better than any previous year. is to dtestroy freedom.” This Act is also used for dealing with anti-social elements, goondas, dacoits. The whole purpose behind this piece I can understand a piece of legislation of legislation was to create a united whifch is concerned with curbing the front of the lovers of freedom, of the liberties of goondas and dacoits. But ui*oldters of democracy, against those why do you club together, why is an whose single aim was to disrupt and effort being made to bundle together destroy freedom and democracy in gooTUias and dacoits on the one hand and political workers on the. other— this country. Has such a united front been created? There has been workers belonging to all kinds of a united front agajnst Government, political parties? Is it proper, is it necessary? One can understand if a of all other political parties here. case is made out that there should be I have gone through the debates in some kind of a Goonda Act to prevent the past. I have been listening to the dacoits from going about and creating debate that has been going on now. disturbances in the country. But I have gone carefully through this should there be an Act wherein the brochure that has been circulated. goondas and the dacoits are brought Fourteen political parties you have in and wherein respected representa ranged against yourselves. The Home tives of the people, respected! spokes Minister finds himself in total isola men of the people are also caught in? tion. Shri Rajagopalachari had pointed out at that time: In the past when this question was brought UP here, the late lamented “I am afraid that while we im Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee, my prove conditions, the enemy, if I fritend Mr. Chatterjee, Mr. Saranga- may so call the opposing bloc of dhar Das, Sardar Hukam Singh and forces, its also alert and changing various other Members pointed out, his tactics and improving, from his quoted chapter and verse to show how own point of view, his tactics and this particular Act had been used exploiting the situation as it against their political parties and arises from tihie to time. With their political activitifes. the advanced technique that we have to cope with, we have to What are you dtoing? You had put start every now and then with this Act on the statute-book in order fresh defensive technique and the to safeguard democracy in order to thing is proceeding that way.” create a united front of all those who would cherish democracy in this roun- try. That was the purpose for wMoh If you want to safeguard democracy Sardar Patel and Shri Rajagopalachari you must learn to change your tech had conceived this piece of legislation. nique as Shri Rajagop»lachari> said. And you have renewed this Act in The Communist Party have changed order to break up that united front their technique; they are no longer completely and put yourself in a posi- pursuing the technique which they tton of total isolatloij. were pursuing during 1948-50. Your 2445 Preventive Detention 10 DECE3IBEB 19M (Amendment) Bill 2446 technique then may have helped UD to a point; it may have helped the Com And what do we find? We have munis ^ Party too up to a point. If come to this conclusion, deliberately you are of the opinion that they - are and Lonciously, that we shall not out to fight democracy and they are send those with whom we difier fun using democratic means with a view damentally, whom Shii Rajagopala- ultimately to strangle democracy, chari had called “the enemy block", to surely this is not the piece of legis concentration camps; we shall peimit lation with which you will be able to' them to come into the Legislature, meet them. You have to discover new into the Parliament. We have this techniques, you have to discover new faith and confidence that because of methdUs for dealing with the changed this akbemy of the Parliament we technique that the Communist Party shall be able to discover areas of have adopted todiay. agreement, we shall be able to dis cover points of contact and we shall be able to hammer out a point of Sardar Patel had suggested—I know view which will be in the interests of he was not in favour of it, I am not the country as a whole. It is that in favour of it, the House is not in approach that is necessary today. favour of it, but he had a logical Why does not the Home Minister set mind, he had a consistent mibd and up a committee here, a committee that logical mind had said: drawn from Members belonging to different parties? If anywhere any “This is a democratic country political parties indulge ib an activity now and* any party that wants to which is likely to undermine or disrupt take advantage of democratic ins democracy or endanger the security titutions or democratic organisa of our country, here would be the tions to come ibto government by opinion of the paers that would be democratic methods is quite free, available, and it would be impossible but it will be an evil day if this for any political party to go against Government allow the democratic the judfement, not of the Government, freedom to go to polls to people not af an official, but the combine^ who want to destroy democrcay opinion of all the peers who are sit by violence and disruption.’ ting here belonging to all kinds of politital parties. So Sardar Patel had sai LShri Asoka Mebtal way? The strike would have come. Shri Rajagopalchari had assured us The police would have set the motor that if this particular piece of legisla of repression into action or would tion is mis-used anywhere, stringent have arrested people under this par action would be taken. ticular Act. All kinds erf disturt>ane^ would have taken place. Our econorw He had gone to the extent of would have been disrupted for a saying: while. Instead, what did you find? That every section of this House was anxious to see that such a situation “I can give another mor^ im- did not arise. tant assurance and I must give it at once....You may rest assur ed that the Government will take Shri S. S. More: Except the Con the most serious view of such con gress. duct and will treat every such ab use of powers as disloyalty to the Shri Asoka Mehta; Congressmen State, nothing less.” also. Theite were distibguished Congressmen who co-operated' wilth us This is the important assurance in preventing an ugly situation from which he had given. Many cases arising. But did the Government make any effort? It was my leader, have been brought on the floor of-the House where it has been proved to the Acharya Kripalani, who had to take the hilt that these powers have been mis initiative in the matter, not the Prime used. But, not in one single case Minister or the Home Minister or the Labour Minister. They do not think has any action been taken. That is that we count in the country. They the reason why we feU that when do not think that our co-operation assurances are not honoured, it is would help them to maintain peace not proper or desirable that such a and tranquillity in this country. legislation should be permitted to They think only with the baton of the continue on .the Statute Book. polite the blu^eon of the Govern ment, peace and tranauiUity can be There is one part of the BiU which maintained in this country. It is that is particularly obnoxious; that is the attitude of the Government which we vnendment which seeks to remove shall not accept and which has crea Jammu and Kashmir from the pur ted against you a united front. view of this Act completely. This Act is bad enough. If Jammu and E>o not think that we are a whit less Kashmir is removed, the people there interested in the preservation of our will be completely at the mercy of freedom and democracy. But the the Jammu and KashmJr Government. method you are pursuing will never The Jammu anrf Kashmir Preventive enable you fro 'weaken the Commu Detention Act is more obnoxious, is nists or to create in this country the more undesirable than the Act that climate that is favourable for the pre we are discussing here this afternoon, servation of freedom and democracy. in five ways, Firstly, under that Therefore my suggestion and my ap Act, any officer other than the District peal is, try to create parliamentary Magistrate, Additional District Magis opinion, ptublic opinion, to restrain trate and Sub-Divisional Magistrate, political parties from misbehaving may be a Superintendent of PoUce if they are doing so. Do also, can arrest and issue a detention not make use of this kind of legisla order. Secondly, in the Advisory tion which only results in dividing the Boards, the Chairman need not neces forces of freedom and democracy, sarily be a perron who is or has been which only results iln creating a united a Judfee of the High Court. Thirdly, front against the Government. the maximum period of detention *449 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Mnendment) Bill 2459 undar that Act is five years, as Kashmir Government to clamp down against one year under our Act. upon the people of that State a piece of legislation which is far more oboo- [Mr. Defuty-Speakeb in the Choir ] xious than this Act. We want the Then, there is no obligation under people of Jammu and Kashmir to be the Jammu and Kashmir State Act drawn closer to India. They are to obtain the opinion of the Advisory *'1|lfcxperiencihg today the twilight of Board even in the case of detention' liberty. They feel that they do not for five years, where a person is enjoy the civil liberties that the peo detained to prevent him from act ple in the rest of India enjoy. Whe ing in a manner prejudicial to the se ther that is true or not is a difEerent curity o£ the State or the maintenance matter. But, here, they will be able of public safety Or public order. to say that as far as that State is con Lastly, a person can be re-arrested cerned, there is to be an Act which and' re-detained if the Government or ite far more obnoxious than an Act the officer, as the case may be, is that is to govern the rest of India. satisfied that the grounds on which What have the peo^ie of Jammu and the original order was made still’ ' Kashmir done? Do you think that exist and. the order of release does their goodwill and co-operation with not bar the making of a fresh order the rest of India could be obtained b.v of detention. These are the five Im forging fetters of oppression and provements that we had carried out repression? Is that the way in which in our original Act. The original you are going to win the goodwill ol Act was bad. It was sought those people? Is that the way in to be improved. It was libe which you wiU ultimately be able to ralised as the Home Minister get their co-operation and support said'. Suddenly the process and win their confidence? If this Act of liberalisation has been stopped. is bad, let it be uniformly be applied Ibr three years we are called upon everywhere. You are not excluding to enact thils piece of legislation as any part of India fr<»n the operation it stands. This time no opportunity of this Ac^. There are certain States has been given to us' to find out where no pereon has been arrested In whether this Act can be impcoved the last year. I could have under in any further manner or not. But. stood if those States were excluded apart from that, a far more obnoxious from the operation of this Act. No Act is to be in operation in the Jammu such exclusion takes place. There is and Kashmir. I do not know why only one exclusion and that is the this decision has been taken. Jammu and Kashmir State. That ex I have been one of those who have clusion is for the purpose of bringinB been taking a keen interest in the the people of that State under the conditions prevailing in the State of operation of a far more obnoxious and' Jammu and' Kashmir. I can speak a far more objectionable Act than the with some amount of personal expe one we are discussto*. rience also. What do I find? The I was surprised to find that the people there, particularly in Kashmir, Home Minister, while moving his are profoundly interested in this motion, made no effort to explain why problem of detention, because they this particular Act should continue. He feel that some of those whom they made no effort to explain why this Act revere and respect are today in deten should continue for three years and not tion. They feel that something shotild one year at a time as Sardar Patel and be done about that. Whether they Shri Rajagopalachari, under entirely are entitled to think in that way or different circumstances, far more diffi not, is another matter. But, there is cult circumstances, had asked the that profound and widespread feelirvg House to do. Lastly, he had not a word which cannot be denied. Instead of to say as to why Jammu and Kashmir taking that feeling itito consideration, is sought to be excluded from the you are permitting the Jammu and operation of this Act. There, the people 2451 Preventive DetemUm 10 DECEMBER 1954 (.Amendment) Bill 2 4 5 2 [Shn Asoka Mehta] A ^nmr (ann^^ ?t^ ) : ^ are being thrown to the tender mercies tetiE^w »f >ft Ti«i|w Tift fwi of a far more objectionable and obnoxi ous Act than the one prevailing here. w ^ I hope and trust that even tha Home Minister, will not respond to ?ft (fifo Jfo ?»nr : >jff, aift our appeal and withdraw the measure, fTT? ^ ^ ahrf ^ fir ^1^ jf at least, he will try to take the House and the country seriously and explain ipn # 1 ^ 511 M jrs i ajft to us why he has made these proposals shr >ft fir to ^ 4^ and carry conviction to us and will not merely get this Bill passed with the strength of a majority because such ^r»i? f, atitjTuol' legislations, where you want the co ^ ST? 5raf >f wrar ^ 1 operation of all concerned, can never 3lf? ^PT? ^ m>JTTOr be passed and should never be passed merely by the majority of a particular =T?f # fw ^ jriW T?r a n ^ t? party. ^ctrai ^ sbr jf ttoi ^0 'rf'jfgTT) : 3TW, T?r ^ ^rsT ^ atw jrf sqi'n! ^ lir w ^ ^ ^ arr^ ^ ^ ^ arf? ^ Jf, aift ^ ^ ^ if ^ ^ HiiTT ^ irtw ^ jf ¥W5IT ^ tR Wrrf 5? ^ HIV ^ \d *1 ui ^ -aiiq arf? >d ^ ?TT^ -allM , q^l4 ^ ^ jf ^ ^ JTRtf H ^ a n ^ 5-^ W ^ apT# if 4, ^ ^ ^ HTwrrf ^ ^ ^ T5T in 3(T fir ^ >ft rRfuRT ^ I aff? \i H ^ vjiw ^41 ^ 'd H ^ ti ^-aii ^ ^ I *1 ar^ ^ TTsjf ^ fir w n ^ girw ?; i M fir ^iTTTT ^ fsRT ^iPT •T ni ^ WT aff? f W s' ^11^1 ^ ^ fir HRVpft ^ HPT, r»V»ll eir »f fTTjf ^ fir ’?) 5 ni ^ ^ ?iT ^ ^ I arh jp f sjR ^ xw jf 3R- 3f«r?T fir ^ flvfFRT HI?' 5? 'Tf^ TfW fir 'i>in,"^ ^ # 1 ^ ^ HT W f ^ 7 W I »n, T?r ^ >}?r ^rT!f ^ ^ JTft ^ ^ ^ jW ^PTfr ^ ^T=r ^ «n ^ ?7=t atft airai ^ d-f) ^r>r ^ Tra' an^ aift 17m fir ^ '15^ ^ Sil^T 418^ ^ wiiFf ^ ^ TO TIT 1 ^ TOT^r ^ aift i’TT'Rin rtl'lt >ft ^ eiR> Til 515^ +lc** ^ >d ^ q q^ W «r atft TIT q^irer ^ ?; ^ jf 5? ^ ^ ^ jft ^ «rVk ^ih ^00 m »oo ^ ^ ^ f^rrn f, sraTT^ afTifift a;? 5(T^ !iT5f »f I T?r T**ll ipii ^ aift ftTW ipil ^ :*»?*) Hifi w w I aift 517? ^T§ ^ T7 2453 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (.Amendment) Bill 2454 ^ wT?Tff »f ^mra- 51^ TTcf # af TRsr *T? «« /I BT ?t iniT *(T I 57HT 71^ aift SifsRnsT ^ ^ f?r 7n?r ^ ^ 3^ sfi^ 51^ an?' I anr *pt =1^ #, 4 ^ TTSr ^ fsR^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ 7IW sh 1 ^ # I 4 ^ f fsE fTT Twfr^ ^ ^ aift ni>?iq'41«( 71^ aTRi fjfTjf f 1 ^ ^ arf? a W FI?T ^rai 7R5IT qW ^ f I ^ ^ fTT =^ ??tlir f I ^ ^R- JltRT ^ I ^ 3fra" ^ I tf wf «ioiui ^!T?f ^ ^ ^ ?tk(= ^ =^ frrar »iT >n anr rrfrr w sfirf tf aRhriv 'J'^ wt I ?teif uRnftv I 3Trr *iin J it 1 =f ar?r fsE ^ ^ «ft TTJTo cfto 9nv : jf ^ MH^II I ^ ^ ?«dlHi fT^fura- fapTT ottht aift flft jjT^ anr in 3T? ^ ^ Wra jcjtiw fapTT # 1 «(,!'H'tii'^ Tw^wl" »f ^ irnTTTT : i}^ ^ <(i^ rar ^ S; <1;^ atrar ^ atra' ^ rrfrr arr^ ?rvf 5^ sn/ jf ^ # Tw ^ »f ^ w^=nfs ^ ^ arr^ alW ?f fsE f¥ W ift ^rpiTff an< fe^ arr^ ?r?T ^ wrt »f ^ ^ arf? \d ti*i ^ ^ 5^rn*ii^t 1“ I fVi t, 5^ ^ 5IT w m I an^f ?ra- ^ ^ 4 anj^ Jlfttra ^ I aif? \ai f an9i s;, ^ : =T^ arrijT ^ 1 4 ^ wrsm «(>i’ ^ “Emphasising and explaining the ^r^, i trf ?T7^ ^ 3^^ >*’'■'*■■<1 meaning of peaceful co-existence, f t ^ ^ fW5 T^-%wh »f that book which has been publish ed in Moscow, says...... ” ^ srffiif ^ ^ JTsu ^iW5r?5 aift An Hon. Member What is that you are reading from? Shri M. P. Mishra; Indian Nati&ti ^ ^ m I ?tt«bp published in Patna, a daily. 2455 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (,Amendment) Bill 2456 [Shri M. P. Mishra] ^ arf? ar=r “...... that it is the inevitable »ft fTT ^ if ^ f consequence of the fact that world wide victory of communism is to ^ W TiS^ e h n ifT^ iilR m ^ s^ come in stages”. fli^ll ^ ^TPT at <^0'i -jf aiTtt ^ f'5FT ^ fTT riT ^ ohr in ^ Hinstl rST ^ 1 ^rr?iT t 1 aoft ^ ^ ^ SOT ^ ?R«jTatf if ^t ^ HW if ^ f , ?TfT^ ^ <3^ I rftfiH ^ ^ f»TOM ?t I jf ’Tikr^^Hn ?t »ft fTT if sira^ ^ f q ;^ ^ 5 W 4^ jf ari”? if^ ■alHni s; fl'is! frUTlT if 3IW #, ^ =T^ I !n tit f 1 ^ »ft ^ iR^ fir ^la- if jra^ ^^did ^ ^ =T^ w ^ t I t We have to find our way elsewhere, rraTCT ^77^ J# iT^ <*■«''*}'■<; d ?ii^ # at j}*^ ^i?r ^>T=TT grrar c ^ iRS^ f ^ w f , ^ »ft eV ii srf? ^ ^ 2ir» «l,T‘H'Mljt f- I jf I rin^ ir^ inrrai^ ait^ at^ ^ 5 e qiw ^ '6 ^ «<+!< 5itTif ?TOrftir ^ ^ iV itr w # 1 ^ ^ ?5n3 ^ f I ^ if ainr fTT 4 niw ^ >T^ anr^ ^ 3!ji^ ^TiiV ^ ?ra- ? arf^ w^mr ^rfriSfr 4 w i'ii ?5n3 jf rsT sir f 1 w^mr :t 3it ^ # I ^ a m ni ^ •aiJf 5« ^ > a ^ ^nrai ^TiiV ^ ?nv ^ at ^fiiV «ii*nt^i ^ ^ ^ 1 3RT7 31T 'allti, -TR^fifa^ lit# JTm? in ?kr # I irarj»ir>M 5fr ^ !f5 iTT=T iFipr ^ 3IW ^ I OTT yifgw7^ !F? iW apqur f W f »i ^ ^ f ? ^ ^ HWW ^ f irg in ^ an^ f uf?r a^nv «W ^ #“ 7 ^ f, aift hijr ^ r*T ?iw ®lcl ci6i^ W6*i 3TTT \J *1^1 fNr? an^ ^ ^3iT^ ^nv apJipr f»<iTnr ^ 5if? i5?ix, ?TT SFTOT ^ ^N" jf 5T^, q^, Itfg^^ ^ Jikf in 5TS^ ?5R- in T% ^ frthra ?rg# iTT=TiFJpr ai^ »f, ^ g-.^|'.j f I ami W 5nw ^ ^ »iT >^ ?!• ^ ^ an^i ?rf i^^W ^ 3iraT=ft ?V snjpft1 gf JT? ^ SIT h; ^ ^ ift t4i^jii airepft # at!"?)! 5tFf *f 1 ? W an^' sn^rrft I ^ trtnim h ; 15W ?W f J[5h4) ^5T5f #" g~H ?rr?; ?hrft ^ ^ i =t?T #, •il'rn ?r? fT%i ?B hnj ^rar ^ fiVdy ITW # I ?TT^ ^ # I ?t? f% i ^ fai? ^rar ^ w ?T3r=ffitra) Jif^ >n ^ H ^-n ^ r>T «?? q;^ f fsB ^rffTj I cfw ?!• WOT # aiw fw t ^ ^n5T ^ 5^, ^r? ^ ^nif 5TW 3n UFT arft frr 5tt? ^ ^ ^ ?5n; arft ?V? ^fhr hict ^ fsnj, frr wr? 3|Wii'i)4idl ITS :aFT I gV W OT # arfranfflWrr iTfit^ jf ^ j,^ - ■3F^TTft?^?r tflrfg- jf Mr<'^^-T OT?^ ? I fw anr hrfiRw ^ ^3T7^ 5 ^ arjfrtfe fro- ai^ f inrn- anss’twOT T5 ^FT I ^ ufA^f^rw ^ nWN?jf? ^ ^ ^ anf^, 5T?f fsn? ^ jJsB ?V w ?ft # I 5ff^ anft ? W, q- anfta- sW ari^ q-. ^ 5W s' =t i}^ ^ 3T ^ ^ arfWfsir ^ ^ iW ? if 5TWT >T^ #, ?5R^ far; h; *1? ^ f W wfWr cfNrf 15W 4 TO ^nV? O T^ # I an W 15W >T^ »f= W arfw f ^ f^ra fsHFT ^ aifijstTfr’if if S W 4 = ^ ^ fax’ if =t?T iW 5 in <<,»<; HI ^ wfWr 4= # I ^ w ti9) n t ^ e '^'nJ ^ anr^ ^ rffo : 5T?nf iipnfhr ^ ^ ?=n^ =T^ ^ I iR ^ jf ^r?ra t - 3459 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2460 ^0 ^ f^trar »r? at^ f7«»T t 3T«li ?rt“aroK ^ a n ^ «r? ariW R t arpf an^ ^ M Vr U ^ W t irMerfg- T?p^ ^ at anr ^ 3r?tRii?Ff ^ iW wtg- at f^r iron ^ siht J ^ 1 f^rar ^ arf ^ an'ret I ^ t f» ^ ^rfwTj 1^ aifkT^ ?nffn’ »T?n # ^ f, ?r? f?Tj?ra r?^ t4i?^ij, ^ (T'tii ’dVftsrfg' ^ ^ ?t anr 5«<*1 ^ wnr ?Ji ar^ ?W5r f \ , I »f 9R7 It served as a healthy check. srfw qrif qiftnipfs ^ 5tf ^ f ^h;=t ^ ?ra^ ^ ^ # I ^ r*T »f 'T?^ *r :SFn gTf?T3 I aR7 q M wfg- ■«t 5lt ^ ^ ^ SIT?' ^ trf 5«7 a(tq^<4qitil ^ jf ^ ^7fT urar »?T r«=tw an^^ft OTiRT ^tt4 ^ ?5rq, arir? ^ if wf^ # 3(Mn 3)k n ^it ^ ^ ^icT*s at f Wt armwar f ^ ^iT^nr mT'ci^t+Tti 3rf? 'T’j® ^ ^ I ^ frn; i arift it^ ^ ^ firr :t ^ JTTW f, ^rwraT vIMIUI^ : at^ 5lt srasi flH ^ I a(T ^ »ft =^W >fl ^ # f I >T*IH : 5lt M'M< ^ fsr; ^ .^TO' if =T^ ^^nar ^ -frf 5P ^ «»r^ ^ tnftniTtfs ^ fy?Wt ^ ^raf ^ if anar :>fl ?ir Jf^ ^ t^VJR W ip ^ f atft gro’ if anar f ^ ^ •?rirT -<4 xJmoNi airr^ f ^ ^ W t qM? ■tih t s^tt # I ^ ^ r^r ^h;=t ^ 5rar inai ^ at ?t^ Tit ?T5r w TIT «r I f=Tv^ ^ aih »M f tsnnf 10- ^R wy 5tf>r JTT^ 5n?t ^ 1 fir "With a guilty conscience, he had come ^ HC11 ^ ^ *i'\i V"* tj Iran it «rat 'before the House. wnr f ut 4ft ?rafr ^ airar ^nff ? 1 ■f)?«t.~ ■wi aifkrar? ^!H7r f 1 fiT^T ^ ?5rT3 ^iTJT if fn^rr snar i t < 2461 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2462 In spite of protests from the Home ^ ^ are- f.|^U4sH ^ ?»T5rrft Minister, I have no doubt in saying that this measure is meant for sup / I ^ atf^ f ? W ? pressing the political parties in the ^ >W7T #w # ?iii s»? ^ country. # I ITT ?T>nT ^ ^ 1 ajpt t^^tl fr^JT ^ # I JTVJjwa- ^ *f= Number of detenus released by High •rwjwa' ^ Courts...... n.' ?rvT ^ jrtnr mT^ tt ^ ^ Jiwjwa' Number of detenus released by the ^ ^ ?TI5T ^ 5T^ ^ irtJR ^ f W ? S^^reme Court...... 3. I I Wcpi n? ui^ ^afi ^ ?n ^ • I 3M 'J^r sfTT^f ^ ^5H3 ^ 'T^ H w jft q;ar >»T 5 W I- 4 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ 3^5 ^ ^ an 3iR4RnT =n^ lV«ji I if ’J? ^ ^ 5it >j)lc'^ T!T ij? r^uf^j tnnr ^ ^ (sjR if T^rar # 5qy^<)i’ ^ ?5r3 ^ ig^qoNi 5Vw ^ iT^ a r urn ^ an w ?kn # 1 fJT arrf an»t # 5TT smiRHT ^ ^ ?hn f f I 4 fW5 "sW ^ »ira^ 3rf ^ ^ ^ 5>}^ sil' 4 art*? nql'-zTi f?^ ^ 5JT ^ gf ;i^ ^ I ip f apj^ ^=>mir ^ a r i^ iT^ ?T5T aiTn^ ?W ^ !»!RTT ?J?f ^0 sfto ipiT aift ’J? jfTT Tsr flkrR’T f ifrrftRn aift ^d<^wlj'' if ghtr ?, f^nni 5IW51 ^ art ^ a«(i'»r«(a «rfw ifV c=T ? W if ?ktT # 1^ "sV if ^ ^ '*<4 <(1511 ^ ViMn aift if w ^ qifsnmfe ^ ^ I ^ ap ^rfs^ aift anN^ :f)hr ?W 4 M'^ ra; iff #T ^ ^>mjr ^ ?W ^ S W 4^ if if 5IHT iTfT r?7 f I rurf ?ire^ >w 3tf? 4 T ?^ aira' ^ ?hr an^ ^ff) £, iT ^ fraN H 4^ ^ ^T5f t, ^ 5(t ^ ^ if ^3HT TfT ^ arf? ^ if sfk- an?ift ^ ^ f ^ hnRT yi^^ M f ^ arwr i arf? fv 3n'i^ 3rKn nl*i urn ^ '»>«t,S'HoH hr5HTf ^ anr ar^ urmf Vct^^ ^ ^ *1^ ?^ atf? ar^ f f I '^ir w fifs 4 =rt??^ if apft W riT ^ anr ^ M?=fr=r ir^T^ «n if fsniHr ^rnf ?^ ^ ?in^ if ^ ^ aitai ^ ^ ^ 41?q anr^ (d^irfi fll'if ^ ^ flnf '^IH 3h<1 ?T I «ft ^N'llimdNl'if ^ ^ VT ^ I ^ sn^ ««3*) ^ fcpf 3TTT1 H<7)|^ ^ ^ ^>+ atft JRTPra- ^ ?«rar sirar f ^rrm trrar ^ tftfr^Rr nliVtf fHV=T <*l't,H ^ 3I?r H ^smsfT f, iw iruirr sn^mr, 1 5TT ^^jTOiTfn^ ^rnif iT«f, ^ ^ IJ^o ^0 Tieafi fraNH ^ ^ ^ ^ if ir^ jft ^ aift rurf sJ^ ^ 5ira- ?raf ij^t ?fnr ^rar ^ ?V, JT? w^ ^ if ^ arfi H^K ^ ?rfiT WH" ^ 3trar 1 ^ ^ Jl'jV'^'t ^ ar^'ifa <1^ iT^, 3^ ini' ^ ^ ^ SWt h - if ♦ «(,!'•(« ^ >ft >rsr =TiiT ^rar ? aift ’i? ura?^ n<>.fHi ^ if?r ^ ^r?T ^nm # sTR^^ =f? ^aRTTT 3tf? 111^ ^ ^ t, HiTw w ^ fsR ^ ^TPT a-^ W arr^ sw if ?ir aTRPT 77ST ^ 5(t if 3iw?t ^rram ^i?ttt ^ ^ =r>ff STfT aiR ^ ?hlT # I Ip ?«lHIHi nf TRpffi^ ?rf55 qi^ Tf; ifift 5T^ g=T^ vAii, yn+i ^ <, i?7r w«r i ^rfj];^ fcpf «f? T«iT^ fcpf f^r ?TPr ^ tn^ ^rinr areirq’ f ^ Vq»«41 M||^4k| I ^ V TO 111^ if t, ^ ^ w^ivm ^ I if if >^9> ^ fq'iq ^T? arf? qlwHI n mf 4 ^ W i W f ^ atf? ^ ^fTJi; atft ^ ?n=T5'3- 3tf? ^rflflET ^ 3T^ lIH^ if i I atft ■»r41< ^ f= aift ^ hrgTi^ ^ ^ ^ JRra^ arfw sr *ift # i ?r? f I if KTFlV if 3lf? jf arrr^ f^^if 2^ ?ct^ ^ TOI; aift ipRifh ^ feV W ^ at f<57 iW ^raiT if 5T^ airai frr^ *T^ 5TTi^ ^ 7 ^ ^ ^ 3tm w ?ii # ? ^ an ^ arh l^ ^ «IT aift ^ITTJT ?TT^ ^ d.j|^<-U| 'JrfPIT iFTT, if frr^RIH ^ ^ ^55^ 51^ q;g; ^ >»T5f V<*d*i tiW ^ an’i:^ i^ = r# 3 lft ^ ITT ifHfseT ?^/j til ^ T^FST, 3iraT gTnrin ^ ^raf if =1^ »T!f ari*? T? 1 an W f ?TT^ if ^ # aift =T JTsft art*? nr^iW ^ f^T sT^^ra?f arftr^ '?r»nn f , anN ^ hsrfir tiW ^ f trn^ jf 511 ^tfHT c; stRT arW? =1^ ^ srfi fTT TR W 51? iH fV r ?5nr^ 5IW ^ 4^ f»T7 sft arak fsr^TR- ^ ^ ari^ ^ ^nn *t?i^ ^ ■atqi lai^ 3TT^ ^T’T ’T^ ?TTW? aPT=t ?T»r if anr^ ^ )iw ^ ?rfiT atrj w h ^ t4I^^ ^ 3f a-JH'a'* t , *W !3^ WV 5TT if i'^d'*,,T)H*i ^ ^ =T?^ f, ^ ?rfiT f ^5t4 aift ^ if 1 W ?7fT T ^ ^ !R»fh 3 tft =T f5r5f ^ ^rahr T?r # arft 1 ^ atl^skrT ^ I 5Twi; aift fTT W T iJ*' ^«+T ^TT=lT 'aigni ^ ?TT ^ >1T»T 3RHT < I ?n?ff ^ ari*? ^Ill'll Shri Tek Chand (Ambala-Simla): li ^ ^ fTT fqqH ^ aiflim a question were to be put to me whe ^ ^i?7 T^PiT !T ghrr 1 ther I liked the Preventive Detention Act, without any compunction, without ant^ if jpJ ^ ^ ^ ^!T=ft # a»f? any mental reservation, I would make ^ 51? # ?% ^ if bold to say, ‘I loath it’. sfliRf ^ 4VH< ^ 5T?^, ^ Dr. N. B. Kliare (Gwalior): But he will vote for it. ipt iTwr w a- if Shri Tek Chand: If I were asked, w m ? tiW ^ jW imr ‘Do you consider it to be necessary?’, lin f ^ fiTfr 7^ # aift my answer would be in the affirmative, it is, painful as it is, a painful neces ^ jw irf ^ ^ ?^TH # atft sity. Democracy in my country today f r s ^ ^ if ^-i^M>Hi|iiH ^ is a sapling. It has not yet risen to 5j ^ iT^ft t : the strength or height of a sturdy oak. The number of weeds and vermins is ‘Indulging in such activities or legion. There are also rats with sharp preaching violence.' ' teeth...... Dr. N. B. Khare: Why not white ants ^ ^ htW ^ also? ^ TT^n ^^r^TT »n I snr Shri Tek Chand: This sapling has to ^in^*i ^ ?ir ^rf*? ^ ^ be protected against rats, against ver *??r ^ ^ fcpf^ K}\ mins too. ^ ^ W tt ^ 'T^ # ^ Shri V. G. Deshpande: White ants ^ ^ ^J^T^TW 3TTT^ *4 ^ ^ also. 7T^, -aietiJJ Shri Tek Chand; If democracy were thriving under Utopian conditions any ^*1 ^1^? ^ ^ such provision would be styled as a ?tA h ^ ^jW^r ^ ^3TT stigma, as a stain and as a blot. It 2467 Preventive Detention 10 IffiCEHBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 246S I ^li Tek Chand] tile conditions prevailing in our coun by the enactment of those laws. The try were ideological, I would be the pretensions of such people are too first to raise my voice in protest patent and too obvious to require fur against the retention of such a ther examination and scrutiny. There measure. fore, so long as in this country there An Hon. Member; You won’t do it. is the possibility of a single spy com mitting the most outrageous olfence Shri Tek Chand: But, when I turn known to law, of espionage, such a per round and see that the people of this son deserves no pity, deserves no country are capable of being guilty of sympathy. But, what does the hon. espionage, they can conduct themselves Home Minister do? He says, “All right, in a manner not only subversive of if you are prepared to behave in this law, not only in a manner subversive manner, I will not treat you in this of peace but also in a manner subver manner in which Beria was treated, I sive of the stability of the State, I , am not going to deprive you of your feel that against such people the re life, I am not going to launch you into tention of such a weapon in the ad eternity 'with the assistance of the fir ministrative armoury of the State is ing squad...... absolutely imperative. Therefore,' the circumstances leading up to the reten Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Who is Beria? tion of such a measure have two as Shri Tek Chand: But, Sir, Beria is pects—the silvery and the seamy. I buried; but the manner in which...... see that this Act has been enforced with a certain amount of circumspec Depaty-Speak*es Buried alive? tion, with a certain amount of laudable Me Chand: He was buried and moderation and, I have no doubt, in Bis burial is a noticeable fact of his counselling the Government that a tory. AU that this Act enacts is that certain amount of vigilance is absolute such an anti-social person who forfeits ly necessary not only when you are the right of even breathing and Uving exercising the powers under the Act in a country from which certain of but even after those powers have been the hon. friends derive their mental exercised, in order to make sure, as a manna, sustenance and inspiration to result of reconsideration and review day, should be detained. They say that and a certain sifting of the facts and such an Act ought not to besmirch the reports to make as certain as is human statute-book of this country. So long ly possible that the wrong man has as their violent propensities, so long not been put behind the bars. as their violent predilections cannot be curbed, cannot be prevented, democracy But, one thing curious, one thing has to live and democracy has te be amazing that I notice today is. that protected, democracy has to be sustain during the course of this debate, de mocracy has found curious champions. ed despite them and despite their «id- I am indebted to my hon. friend who eavours. the other day said, referring to some Dr. N, B. Kliare: Hypocrisy has also of his friends on the right, that they to live. were the hangmen of democracy, the executioners of freedom. They are to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Mem day the champions of freedom and de ber is exhausting his right of speech. mocracy. That is a little paradoxical. Dr. N. B. Share: Obiter dicta; noth Her Satanic Majesty is sitting to cite ing else. scriptures. And, one is really bewil dered that those who do not swear by Shri Tek Chand; There are certain democracy, but who swear at demo people who have to be protected from cracy are shedding copious crocodile themselves and the last interjection tears that democracy is being hurt, was from that category. There are democracy is being pained and injured people who are incapable of acting in 24^9 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) BiU 347a a manner guaranteeing sufiRcient salety kind. But, 1 wouJxl, wi* ail reSKect, unto themselves. Even they have to be point out the background that neces protected. But there is one thing. No sitated the continuation of a measure doubt, a measure like this is almost of this kind. like a surgeon’s knife, it cuts but to It is true that this measure is cure. The surgeon hurts to heal. But, obnoxious in the abstract. But. we I will submit with aU the emphasis at have to face realities. We have to my command, exercise your powers take into consideration the back after a good deal of close circumspec grounds in which we are enacting this tion. I have no doubt you do exercise measure. Our country, the House these powers in cases where you are knows, has passed through, and is., driven to do so. After you have done perhaps, still passing through a great so, see that your administration checks upheaval and upheaval which is rare those instances where such a power ly witnessed in the world. Whenever has been exercised in order to make there is an upheaval it releases in its sure that they have committed no wake great forces. It is like swollen mistakes. Mistakes in a case like that rivers. It releases the energy of the are extremely painful, extremely im people and unless these tremendous proper and we should see that in the energies released are canalised, it wiU operation of this Act. as far as is cause devastation in its course. To- iiumanly possible, there is no injustice. give an analogy, we have the turbu With these cautionary suggestions, I lent rivers. If the rivers are harnes commend this Bill for the acceptance sed, if they are tamed, they bring of this House. prosperity and peace. They give light Shri N. M. Lingam (Coimbatore); I and they give life. But. if these rivers have been listening to the speeches are not tamed, they cause destruction. from some of the Members 0K»site very attentively...... - We are in a similar situation. The- energy released in the country after -\charya Krlpalani (Bhogalpur cum the attainment of independence is so- Purnea): The last speaker was not great that we have to be careful in from the side opposite. seeing that this energy is harnessed to the welfare of the rountry. It was Shrt N. M. Lingam; I have heard thought in the beginning w»ien a him also but I feel that Members have measure of this kirid was introduced not gone into the crux of the matter. that the necessity of it would be Hon. Members have referred to the short-lived. It is true to say that the genesis of the Bill. Repeated references original sponsors of the BiU did not were made to Sardar Patel and Shri envisage continuation of this measure C. Rajagopalachail who conceived the indefinitely. But, experience has. Bill in the begimiine and explained shown that a measure of this kind is how it should be worked. It was con still necessary. tended that circumstances that obtain Criticisms have been levelled that ed in the country then are no longer the measure is extended tiU the year present today and, therefore, there is 1957 so that the party in power may no need for the Bill. avail of this BiU to come back to power Again, one hon. Member said that once again after the next elections. we are having peace and prosperity in But, 1 would point out. Sir. that we, the country. on this side of the House, accept the challenge thrown by the hon. Leader Acharya Krlpalani; Government of the Communist Party when he said was saying that. that this must be made an issue in Shri N. M. Lingam: And Shri Asoka the coming elections in Andhra. I Mehta agreed with the Government. would go one step further and say that So, on this ground also they say that the Members opposite hjfve an op there is no need for a measure of this portunity to make this an issue not 2471 Preventive Detention 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2472 [Shri N. M. Lingam] 'only in Andhra, but throughout the 19tfi-centun/ Europe which bear •country in the next general elections. no relation to India’. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: We Lest our hide-bound (or shall will do it; don’t forget. we say Marx-bound!) Reds dis miss this as reactionary balder Shri N. M. Lingam: After all, in the dash, we must remind them that last analysis, it is the decision of the a very similar warning was put in ^larty in power. We have felt the more vigorous language by Mao necessity of this Bill and we are pre Tse-tung, the world’s greatest pared to stand by the verdict of the Communist leader and theoretician people which will be known after the today, to his Chinese comrades, next general elections throughout the when he told them that ‘dogvw 'Country. was worse than cou)-dung because dung at least has its uses.' I would only go into a few aspects of the question before I conclude my We offer the same advice in all speech. sincerity to our Communist Shri Nand Lai Sharma (Sikar): So, friends. The time has come for you need Preventive Detention Act for them to face facts of the history the next general elections? of their own country, appreciate and even invite positive criticism, Shri N. M. Lingam; I do not pro undogmatic controversy and a pose to be interrupted like tliis. realistic revaluation of their The Members o;q?osite have been policy and strategy.” saying that democracy is at peril and This is what a paper, which, if any Tthe party that has brought forward thing, was pro-Communist, says about this measure does not speak for the the techniques of the Communist country. I should like to point out Party which opposes this Bill tooth that a paper which is not particularly and nail. So, I appeal to them to iriendly to the Congress Party has review their position. It is true, in a ■described the techniques of the Com Parliament—in a House—like this, it munist Party in the following terms— is natural for the Party opposite to J refer to the Blitz: exploit a Bill like this for political “At the same time. Communists purposes and to direct their guns cannot be absolved of provoca against, what they consider, this most vulnerable part of the Government. tions which seem to us as futile But, I would ask them to go deeper. as they are unwarranted in the I would appeal to them to change their present national and intemstloiial ways. context. Having repudiated the violence of Telengana which at Shri Asoka Mehta was saying that any rate had a goal before it and there were other techniques by which a purpose behind, they have since Government should tackle this pro resorted to violent and absolutely blem of the opposition which does not -sterile phrase-mongering and see eye to eye with the Government. wordy-warfare by way of a sop But, unfortunately, he did not say to their frustrated Marxist-revolu- what exactly the technique was. He ■tlonary conscience. failed to mention any alternative to the present Bill before the House. Prejudiced as Nehru undoubted He referred to points of contact, com ly is against the C^ommunist mon points of view and the areas of i>arty, his criticism is not wholly agreement. But, he did not say how off the mark. It is true, for a common front could be evolved out example, that Indian Communists of this; what other technique the Gov '.sTlcfc to theories and slogans of ernment should have brought forward 2473 Precentiue Detention 10 DECEMBS31 1954 Committee on Prieate »474 (Amendment) Bill Members' Bills and Resolutions or applied to meet the situation which try to stren^hen the political parties, is obtainiiig 1q the country today. but their ways are not going to help in contributing to the consolidation of I have a tendency to go to funda peace that we have recently secured. mentals and I would say to my friends They are not going to help in the con opposite that their attempt to change solidation of freedom. We are passing the course of the country is doomed still through a stage of transition. to failure. We have a national life Independence, which was ushered in ■of 5000 years. The experience of 300 the year 1947, though a major factor million people for 5000 years cannot in itself, was not all that we had to be set at naught. So, the sooner our contend with. The whole world was, friends realise this and understand the and stOl is, in the midst of a cataclys national ideals, the better for the coun mic change and we had several inter try. We, on this side, assure them nal problems also, like the problem that it is not our intention to impose of the refugees and the problem of a Bill of this kind in the teeth of controls. I would ask my triends op cpposiUon, but we are firmly convinc posite to view this problem in its pro ed that our young democracy should per perspective. We will not keep be protected by a fence of this kind. this Bill on the Statute Book a day Unless this is done, we will lose our longer than is necessary, but it looks feet and will be lost in the great forest as if the transitional stage will be a x)t ideologies and ideas in which the fairly long one, and, at worst, it wiU country sometimes finds itself engulf be a lesser evil it we continue a ed. measure of this kind, lest we should, Another reason why we should be in our enthusiasm for democratic pro wary of the situation in the country cesses and for building up democratic it that we are engaged in an eia of traditions, cast away aH precautions construction on a grand scale. We or steps that are necessary to safe want peace and tranquillity in the guard our freedom.' ‘ ' country. It is common knowledge that I have a few words more before I everywhere there is unrest. In the sit down. kisan world, in the student world and Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Then, the hon. in the industrial field, strikes are on Member may continue on some other the increase. day. An Hon. Member: Why? Shri N. M. Lingam; Communalism COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEM raises its ugly head periodically. So, BERS’ BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS it is of the utmost importance that we do not allow the national energies Fifteenth Report to be dissipated. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The House will now proceed with the Private Acharya Krlpalani; Chatterjee has Members’ business. As the House is no ugly head. aware, the consideration of the Shri N. M. Lingam: Let me not be Fifteenth Report of the Committee on misunderstood. I realise that hon. Private Members’ Bills and Resolutions Members are as great patriots as any was postponed on the 26th November, one here claims to be. 1954 so as to enable hon. Members to table amendments to the 'Report if Dr. Khare: Thank you for the they so desired. Only one amendment courtesy. to the Report has been received from Shri N. M. Lingam; But, I would, Sardar Amar Singh Saigal. with all respect, point out to them - Sardar Saigal is absent and tiMM- that their ways are not conducive to fore that amendment cannot be moved. the good of Ae countiy. They may The discussion was over on that day try to win debating points; they may itself. 551 LSD 2475 Committee on Privatt 10 DECEMBER 1954 *476 Members’ Bills and Resolutions [Mr. Deputy-Speakerl We shall proceed with the voting CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE. of the motion. (AMENDMENT) BILL The question is; (Insertion of new section 109A) “That this House agrees with Dr. N. B. Khare (Gwalior): I beg ti> the Fifteenth Report of the Com move for leave to introduce a Bin fur mittee on Private Members’ Bills ther to amend the Code of Criminal and Resolutions presented to the Procedure 1898. House on the 25th November, 1954.” Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The questio.'i is: The Tntotion was adopted. “That leave be granted to Seventeenth Report introduce a Bill further tn amena the Code of Criminal Piocedure Shri Altekar (North Salara): I beg 1898.'’ to move; “That this House agrees with The miotion ujos odopted. the Seventeenth Report of the Dr. N. B. Khare: I introduce the Committee on Private Members’ Bill, Bills and Resolutions presented to the House on the 8th December, 1954.” ARMY (AMENDMENT) BILL In connection with the time allot (Insertion 0} new section 142A) ment, there is one statement to be clarified and that is in connection with Dr. N. B. Khare (Gwalior); I beg to the time that is allotted to the Pro moVe for leave to introduce a Bill fur hibition of Manufacture and Sale of ther to amend the Army Act, 1950. Vanaspati Bill that had been discus Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The question sed last time. The Report at that time is; was not passed. The debate continu ed and it is still continuing. When “That leave be granted to intro the Committee considered the matter duce a Bill further to amend the subsequently, it allotted halt an hour Army Act, 1950.” more for the whole process of the Vanaspati Bill being discussed and The motion was adopted. finished. With reject to the rest of Dr. N. B. Khare; I introduce the the Bills, the time is stated, and fur Bill. ther classification of the Bills is also given in the appendices attached. I recommend that the motion be PROHIBITION OF MANUFACTURE passed. AND SALE OF VANASPATI Rn.r. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The Report was Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Ihe House wiB presented two days ago to enable hon. now resume further discussion of the MIembers to table amendments. No Prohibition of Manufacture and sale amendment has been received. The of Vanaspati Bill the motion for con ■question is; sideration of which was moved br "That this House -agrees with Shri Jhulan Sinha on the 17th Septem the Seventeenth Report of the ber 1954. Further discussion on the Committee on Private Members’ Bill continued 011 the 28th November ■nis and Resolutions presented to 1954. the House on the 8th December, The Mover and seven other Mem 1954.- bers have already spoken and con The niotion was adopted. cluded their spwches. Shri Pulslnhjl ^477 Prohibition of 10 DKCQiIBER 1954 Manufacture and Sale 2478 of Vanaspati Bill B. Oabhi had not concluded his speech the Import Advisory Committee told on the 26th November, 1954, when me that the animal fat which was be the House adjourned lor the day. ing imporced from foreign countries for the purpose of manufacturing soap The total time taken so far on the was being used for adulterating tt with consideration of this Bill is two houn vanaspati. and 48 minutes. Half an hour is available for its further discussion. Then, I would like to quote a tew lines only to show what kind of people Shii Dabhi (Kalia Noith); On the the vanaspatiwaUs are. 1 shall read last occasion, I showed, by quoting only a few lines from the Harijan facts and figures, that vanaspati was dated 25th July, 1953, from an article far inferior to ghee, that it was not by the late M. P. T. Acharya under even superior to ordinary groundnut the caption, “A Vicious Circle". The oil or ordinary raw oil, that adultera learned author says: tion of ghee with vanaspati was going on on a very extensive scale in the “I was in the erection of a country, that adulteration of ghee with Vanaspati factory. It was employ vanaspati destroys the vitamin con ing hundreds^ of people during tent of ghee itself, that the vanaspati- erection, but on the day of the walas are making about Rs. 26 crores opening of the factory, the pro a year by charging prices higher than prietor discharged hundreds of the ordinary oil prices though it was men. But-on the day, the gate not superior to ordinary oil and by liad a cloth stretched on which the adulteration of ghee with Vanas was inscribed: Industry abolishes pati, and-that it was not at all neces unemployment! The proprietor sary to solidify vanaspati, because it of the factory advertised: Use no was used only in liquid form. I also ghee, use only Vanaspati. for ghee stated that if Government were not contains microbes bad for health. prepared to prohibit the manufacture Vanaspati is untouched by hand’. and sale of vanaspati, they should at (I told him to add; Touched only least prohibit vanasjtatiwalas from by Brahmin hands!) solidifying it and they should only I asked the boss if what he ad allow it in a purified form, that b, vertised was true, did he use it should be refined. I stated that If Vanaspati? He said: ‘Never, I use Government were not prepared even only ghee’.” to do that, they should at least make colourisation of vanaspati compulsory, Then, I want to bring to your and ask the vontupatiwaltu to find notice...... out a suitable colour within a parti cular period or close their factories. Mr. Depnty-Speaker; I was told that Before I conclude, I want to touch the hon. Member would take only very briefly on one or two points which one minute. were left out by me at that time. Last time I stated that even vanaspati was Shri Dabhl: I am finishing. being adulterated with inferior stud and I gave an example of a Calcutta Mr. Deputy-Speaker; I am afarid I case in which the manufacturer of caamot allow you to go on. vanaspati was convicted for adulterat ing vanaspati with inferior stufl. Sbri Dskhi: I shaU flnisli in one or two minutes. I have never said I Kow, I have come across still an would finish it in one minute. other instance where vana Dr. P.- S. Deshmukh: As a matter of America and used «s a substitute for fact, margarine has the same colour butter. But because it deceived the people, it was made compulsory, by as butter. We want a colour by which it would be distinguishable both from the Pure Foods and Drugs Act, that some kind of yellow liquid in a little ghee as well as butter. globule that came with the carton, .Shrimati A. Kale: It is distuigui.sh- containing the groundnut oil, should able from the real butter. be used. So I think the Ministry is wrong in saying that there is no. Shri T* Chswd (Ambala—Simla): colouring matter in the world. There Margarine is indistinguishable. used to be many years ago, and there: Dr. P. S. Desbmnkh; He is more must be many more now. rorrcct. Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: This is an al Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Is vanaspati legation made by some other hon. the only thing which is mixed with Members also. But I would like to gnee, or is passed off as ghee’ Can assure the House that so ttr as colourl- not other kinds of fat be mixed with sation is concerned the Ministry is as ghee? Can the hon. Minister mUghten keen as anybody else, just for the pur the House? pose of seeing that this adulteration Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: There are many is minimised, and' I am quite open for other fats, and so it is not possible any group ol Members or individual to stop adulteration by merely stop Members to make suggestions in this ping vanaspati. respect—practical, feasible suggestions, not like the one we had from this Ghee Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Are those fats Adulteration Committee—and if they and other things which are mixed with can draw our attention to some ghee better than vanaspati or colourisation which will be feasible worse than vanaspati? we will be quite willing to take it up. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava (Gur- Pandit Ttaakur Das Bhargava: It is gaon): Vanaspati Is tbs best adulte not correct. I was a Member of that rant and 90 per cent, of adulteration Committee, That Committee did not is done with vanaspati alone. make a full effort to And out a colour. Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Has the hon. The Bombay and Punjab Governments Minister got any information to give and scientists sent a colour to the to the House, as to what other kinds Committee. But the Committee turn of articles are added to ghee and whe ed it down, on wrong grounds. Even ther vanaspati is not much better than now many colours can be found. In a those articles? week the colour will be found if the burden is put on the vanaspati manu Dr. P. S. Desbmokli; Vanaspati is facturers. much better as has been claimed by the vanaspatiwalas. It is untouched Dr. P. S. Deshmukh It is open lor by hand. any society, any group of persons to suggest that certain colourisation is Mr. Deputy-Speaker: If anything is possible. The remedy suggested by going to be mixed with ghee, it is my friend and others is, put the bur better to have vanaspati than cobra den on the vanaspati industry and fat. force them to evolve a colour by which it will be possible to distinguish it. I Shri Sarangadhar Dap (Dhenkanal— do not think this is the right solution, West Cuttack): With regard to the because I can assure the House once colouring matter to colour a substance more that so far as the Government is that is white so that it can be colour concerned it is not tied down to anj ed and distinguished from, say, butter, particular colour, it does not hk\fe for instance, 1 remember that during any partial view that it should turn the first world war, groundnut oil was down any reasonable sugnesaon so far deodorised and hTdfDVenated In as colourisation is cateerned. 1 again 2483 Prohibition of 10 DECSMBEB 1954 Manufacture and Sale *484 of Vanaspati Bill [Dr. P. S. Deshmukh] assure evez7 Member d the Hom* Government to the Bombay Gtovem- tbat if there is any colour which is ment not to hasten. feasible we wiU take it up. It is no good merely saying ‘this Government Dr. P. S. Deshmnkh: If my friend «vclv«d tUs colour and thaf. TheM can even now give me the basis of any are all jn the air. good scientist whose word can be taken as reliable and which can stand Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava; They the proof of test I am prepared to ac sent a particular proposal. But that cept it. I do not think there is any was not accepted, on wrong grounds. truth in the allegations, and in their enthusiasm they are prepared to be Dr. P. S. Deshmnkh; It must not be lieve anything that is said. one which lasts and which will not go away by heating. If these tests are Shri Bhagwat Aa Azad (Purnea satisfied we are quite prepared to take cum Santal Parganas): If this House up the colourisation. lays down that vanaspati should be coloured, is it a correct answer for Some of the Members went so far as the Minuter to say “you suggest, tou I0 say that the vanaspati industry is give me the inlormation"T Your so strong, as if they are in a position research department will have to do to bribe every scientist in India. Al it. though adulteration is probably practised on a very large scale in our Mr. Depnty-Speaker: I understand country than elsewhere, and thoe are the hon. Minister only to say that they things which.make us ashmed of the have tried their best and they have morals of our people so far as adulte not been able to find a colour. ration and other things are concerned, Shri Bhagwat Jha Azai: Then let I do not think either the purse of the them accept their failure. -vanaspati manufacturers is so long or that every scientist is so corrupt that, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There is no he is amenable to the influence of challenge on the floor of the House. those people. Is it a wrestling match? Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad; I do not So far as colourisation is concerned. challenge. (Interruption). Government is anxious that this should be done. That late Shri Rafi Mr. Depnty-Speaker; Order, order. I Ahmad Kidwai was anxious and keen am sorry. Should not the hon. Minis on that To that extent what Pandit ter reply? i am not going to aUow Thakur Das Bhargava has said is cor cross-questions at all. Each hon. Mein- rect. But in spite of his anxiety it is ber came with his suggestion. In th« not possible to say that we have dis end the hon. Minister Is winding up. It covered any colour. As I have said they are impatient vhst can be once before, I am prepared to receive done? He is expected to answer all any suggestion from anybody. the important points that have been raised on the floor of the House dur Pandit Thaknr Das BhargaTa; The ing the debate. If he is not able to suggestions were from none other than answer, hon. Members will accept it. the scientists of the Bombay Gtovem- He says he tried his best but he is ment and the Punjab Government. not able to obtain a colour. The mere But they were turned down on the statement of hon. Members who are ground that the colour was cancer- laymen, he is not prepared to accept. producing. Nobody made any experi He wants it to stand the proof of test. ment. He is asking Members to send infonna- tion on the basis of the opinion of any Blarl Vabhi: The Bombay Govern scientists in whom they have confi ment was prepared to colourise. But dence so that they may go by their there was a letter from the Central word. It is not a challenge by the hon. ZAiS Prohibition of 10 DECEMBER 1954 Manufacture and Sale 2486 ' of Vanaspati Bill Slinister, nor should there be waj hu Shri Dabhl: I said it was only 25 This is all the intonBation I have sot per cent. 1 do not say that it is the responsibility of any Member to give me the colour. -All that I say is if any Member feels Dr. F. S. Deshmukb: Even that is -that a certain thing has not been suffi not correct. If we take into account ciently tried, I want to give an assur the average of ex-factory prices, the ance that I am prepared to do that it price of vanaspati in Bombay during ^here is any basis. Because as regards 1953-54 was Rs. 2227 per ton, while "the rest of the information said to that of raw groundnut oil which forms have been supplied or the experiment more than 90 per cent, of the oils used done by the Bombay Government and in the manufacture of vanaspati was the Punjab Government, all these Rs. 1,733 per ton. The difference bet things have been attended to and none ween the two figures is Hs. 494. Even of them has been found to be satis if we assume that it is Hs. 500 per ton, factory. it includes an excise duty of Rs. 140 per ton and the cost of containers comes to Rs. 100 per ton. leaving Rs. So I think that there is hardly any 250 per ton towards not only margin Tsasis for a measure like this. Most of of profit but also the cost of manu my friends wanted reaUy the colouri- facture. It will be seen that many iation with which we are not in dis Members are labouring under a mis agreement. But it is the practical conception with regard to the exploi nature of the thing that has g.- t to oe tation that they think that vanaspati taken into account. factories are causing. 2487 Prohibition of 10 DECEMBER 1954 Manufacture and Sale 2488 of Vanaspati Bill [Dr. P. S. Deshmukh] to that extent, they are disqualified One other argument that has been from speaking about vanaspati and its advanced is that mineral oils and other uses. In any case, this contention that oils are utilised in the manufacture of it has any bad effect on health is also vanaspati. That is absolutely incorrect hopelessly incorrect. It has been because of the precautions that we established beyond doubt by all our have taken and the inspections that institutions, all our scientists who have we have arranged. Vanaspati manu made experiments on human beings. I facture is limited only to three oils. No am prepared to read a list of the fourth oil can be used. We allow institutions: Nutrition Research. vanaspati manufacture only out of Laboratories, Coonoor of which Shri groundnut oil» sesame oil and cot> V. N. Patwardhan is the Director; ton seed oil. These are the only three Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore,, oils. So, I do not think that there is under Dr. V. Subramanian, Aryan any truth in saying that other oils are Orphanage, Daryaganj, under Dr. 1 used in this manufacture. K. N. Mitra, Assistant Director Gene ral of Medical Services, David Sessooir There may be some adulteration of Industrial School, Bombay, under Dr. vanaspati also. That is one of the M. V, Radhakrishna Rao, St. Philo- arguments made here. That also we mena’s Orphanage, Mysore under Dr. tried to prevent by insisting that sales V. Subramanian. should be in smaU .packages so as to make it absolutely impossible and difficult for any manufacturers to Shri D. C. Sharma (Hoshiarpur); indulge in it. Government are con May I suggest that this vanaspati vinced that there cannot be much should bo sent to foreign doctors and adulteration. The rest of the stuff is scientists for examination? sold to hotels, defence forces and larger establishments etc., where big Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: It is not neces ger quantities are taken by them. They sary to do so. Foreign people have are the purchasers of large quantities been taking this for ages. Margarine and I am sure they take every precau is a product of vegetable oil. It is tion to see that there is no adultera nothing different. The British people tion. 'are eating it for ages. There is also It is also claimed Uiat people give vegetable oil being eaten all over .vanaspati and other vegetable oil to America. They are not the persons buffaloes and other animals so as to who will tolerate any adulteration or increase the fat content. I do not think bad effects on life. I am sure that that this can be correct because it can would have been banned U It had any not be very economical for the people such effect. It is merely a prejudice to do so; and also because, cotton created In the minds of certain people seeds or even groundnut cake will that it has bad effects. I can assure yield much better results. I submit the House that so far as the informa that although we have much sympathy tion that 1 have been able to obtain so far as tiie use of vanaspati as an goes,—I have obtained it afresh when adulterant of ghee is concerned and I this Bill was to come up before the am in some agreement with my hon. House—I have no ground to say that friend Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava any authority has suggested that. Ex that it does affect ghee producers, periments have shown that it has nc especially those who produce pure bad effect. ghee, I am afraid the remedy is not stopping the manufacture of vanaspati. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: This This is the poor man’s food. Probably, is hardly correct. Even the report of Uke the manufactures of vanaspati the Ghee Adulteration Committee, on most of the Members who speak here which the entire thesis is based says ■Iso do not touch vanaspati. Therefore, that in respect of the poor food, which 2489 Prohibition of 10 DECEMBER 1954 Manufacture arid Sale 24gor of Vanaspati Bill Is used by Bengalis and Orissa people, put one question? The Punjab Gov the continued use of vanaspati has ernment and the Bombay Govern got a very bad effect. ment sent colours. The scientists, I Dr. P. S. Deshmiikli: If that is my think, saia that these colours tend to. friend’s view we must agree to differ. produce cancer. No experiment on. I do not think I have very much more human beings has been made. I would time to »ay anything. I have almost request the Government to re-examine exhausted the arguments also. The this question of colours. main arguments were really two that Dr. P. S. Deshmnkh: I am prepared the vanaspati manufacturers derive to make that enquiry. undue profit, and without benefltting the consumer in any way, they merely Shri Sarangadhar Das: I have not make money. As has been stated by taken part in the discussion. me, it has now been fortified with Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. vitamin ‘A’ which has increased the Member is making a speech. I would nutritive value. We have taken other not allow any hon. Member to make . steps to make detection of "adultera a speech. He can only put a question tion easy. I am also agreeable to tr,v and get an answer. to see if colourisation is possible. Shri Sarangadhar Das: May I ask Pandit Tliakur Das Bhargava: Will whether the hon. Minister has gone. you kindly re-examine Ihis ((ueption into this question that the system of of colours? manufacture of vanaspati in India may Dr. P. S. DeshmuUi: Yes. As a be different from that in America result of the addition of sesame oil, and Europe, that jrould result in detection of adulteration has become some disorder in thelfuiiuman body, as quite easy. it does? Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: In Dr. P, S. Deshmnkh: I am not sure, laboratories only. whether we have done this. We have. the manufactured product and we . Dr. P. S'. Deshmnkh: No laboratory have examined the manufacture pro is necessary. There are Inspectors. duct. I do not think that it is neces There are laboratories where this can sary to go through all the processes be detected. There is no much diffi that are employed so long as the pro culty so far as this is concerned. duct is such that it does not spoil the human health. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: What happens if sesamum oil is added? Shrt Nageshwar Prasad Sinha (Hazaribagh East): ' Sir, I have an Dr. P. S. Deshmnkh; Sesamum oil amendment. is added at the time of manufacture. Mr. Deputy-Speaken I have dis As a result of it, the baudouin test allowed it as it is a dilatory one. The is easy and detection is also easy. Bill was taken up long before. The The process of detection is so easy hon. Member now wants to move the that it could be done without diffi amendment that it may be circulated culty. All the municipalities have for eliciting public opinion. At an .. been informed of this and they have early stage I would have put this been requested to see whether there motion also to the House, even then is any adulteration. I think the Gov only if I considered that it was not ernment has done everything in its a dilatory motion. Even that does not power. To suggest that it should be arise now. I rule it out of order. legally banned by the Government is What is the attitude of the Mover too much.. of the BUI? Pandit Thakur Das BhaissTa: With Shri Jhnlan Slnha (Sarsn North): I your permission, may I be allowed to will reply. Prohibition of 10 DECIMBEE 1B64 Manufacture and Sale 2492 12491 I I oj Vanaspati Bill Mr. Depatr-Speaker: There is no INDIAN AHMS (AMENDMENT) question of replying. If the hon. Mem BUX ber wants me to put it to the House, (Amendment of sections 1 and 26 etc.) I shall do so. Shri U. C. Fatnaik (Ghumsur); I Sbri Aolaii Sinba: Only a few beg to move: -words. “That the Bill further to amend Mr. Deputy-^ieafcer: What for? the Indian Arms Act, 1878, be Withdrawing? referred to a Select Committee Shri Jhulan Sinha: No, I am not consisting of Dr. Kailas Nath -withdrawing. Katju, Shri Balwant Nagesh Datar, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: All right, then Shri Narhar Vishnu Gadgil, Shri- I will put it 10 the House. mati Uma Nehru, Shri Satish Chandra Samanta, Shri Nemi Shri Jhulan Sintaa: I may be allow- Chandra Kasliwal, Shrj Nagesh- • • ed just to make my position clear. war Prasad Sinha, Shri Kotha The Bill was not intended to get Raghuraniaiah, Shri Tek Chand, vanaspati coloured. It is there to get Shri N. C. Chatterjee, Shri Sadhan it banned altogether. . Chandra Gupta, Shri B. Rama- Mr. Deputy-Weaker: That is all chandra Reddi, Pandit Thakur right. I cannot allow any speech at Das Bhargava, His Highness this stage. There is no right of reply. Maharaja Sri Kami Singhji Bahadur of Bikaner, Shrimati Ila What is the attitude of the Palchoudhuri, Shri U. R. Bogawat, Minister? Shri N. Keshavaiengar, Shri K. S. Dr. P. S. Dedgfckh; I am against Raghavachari, Shri Shankar it. Shantaram More, Dr. Ram Subhag Mr. Deputy-Speaker: All right. Singh, Shri N. Somana, Shri K. G. Wodeyar, Sardar Hukam Singh, The question is; Sardar Amar Singh Saigal, Shri Sitanath Brohmo-Chaudhury, Shri “That the Bill to provide for the prohibition of manufacture and U. M. Trivedi, Shri Bhagwat Jha ‘Azad’, Shri Lakshman Singh 'sale of Vanaspati in India, be Charak, Shri Radha Raman, Shri taken into consideration.” mati Tark«shwari Sinha, Shri ■Those in favour will say “Aye”. Basanta Kumar Das, Shri Joachim Alva, Shri S. V. Ramaswamy, Shri :Some Hon. Members: Aye. R. Venkataraman, Shri Nardeo Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Those against Snatak, Shri Dodda Thimmaiah, will say “No”. Shri Digambar Singh, Shri Rameshwar Sahu, Choudhary Sooie Hob. Members: No. Raghubir Singh, Shri Jaganna'.h Mr. Deputy-Speaker The “Noes” Kolay, Shri Panna Lai, Shri Y. Gadilingana Gowd, Shri Girraj liave It. Saran Singh, Shri M. L. Dwivedi, Some Hon. Members: The "Ayes” and the Mover, with instructions Jiave it • to report by the last week of the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Will the hon. next session.’* Members who are in favour kindly In moving this motion, I beg to re rise in their seats? There are 49 for capitulate the circumstances in which the motion. the Bill has reached the present stage. The Bill was introduced on the Now, those against will kindly rise 27th November, 1953, The motion for in their seats. Those against are 52. Its consideration was discussed on ■The motion is lost. the 27th March, 1954 and the 9th The motion was negatived. April, 1954. Thirteen hon. Members 3493 Indian Artru 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2494 ■of this House took an active part in As regards the nature of opinions the discussion and made very valuable submitted to Parliament, I would state i.-ontributionE. The hon. Minister him that most of the opinions coming from self admitted that the Indian Arms non-official quarters from Bar associa Act is a continuation of the traditions tions, from Ministers of different Gov of the British Government and he ernments, from the Chief Minister of .agreed that he would see that one State, from the majority of High entire Bill from A to Z is reconsidered Court Judges and others have all been and revised. He also stated that he in favour of the Bill and in fact, ■would address the State Governments several of the opinions wanted that we to give their opinions not only on the should go much beyond the scope of Bill as moved by me, but on the entire the Bill and see that the entire Act Act from the beginning till tne end. is amended and the provisions of the Replying to the hon. Member from Arms Act relaxed in regard to its Tenali, he promised to write to State severity. The same is the opinion of Governments not to confine themselves many of the officials most of whom only to the limited scope of this Bill, are in favour of the Bill. Some of but to go over the whole topic from them go also beyond the scope of the A to Z. Bill and have given certain sugges tions. I want to characterise the opinions of some of the officials and of a few major State rjovernments Opinions were received by the Lok where the Senior Civilian officials are Sabha Secretariat and were permitted extremely bureaucratic in their out by the hon. Speaker to be placed on look, as being based upon the tradi me Table of the House. Seven sets tions of the administration to which of opinions have been placed on the they were accustomed during British Table of the Lok Sabha. In addition rule. Some of them are not very to these opinions there were also some favourable; they think that the pur valuable information coming from the pose of the Bill can be served not by National Rifle Association, Ahmeda- a statutory change, but by a change bad, who could not give their opinion in the approach of the administrative officially, because they were not asked machinery, by departmental- instruc by the State Governments either of tions, by action under section 27 and Delhi or of Bombay. So, they gave so on. _ -their opinions separately and we were intimated by the Secretary that they There are several officers of very had been placed in the library and high eminence and well-known jurists ■were available to the Members. who colzld not give their opinion on this Bill because of the difficulty that opinions had been called for through The opinions that have been receiv State Governments: if the concerned ed may be classified into different State Government does not ask tor •clafisec—(pinions of non-officials in somebody’s opinion or does not for cluding bar associations, local bodies ward certain opinions, then we have and other organisations and private no access to them. For Instance, I do individuals and well-known jurists. not find the opinion of any Supreme That is one set. Another set is from Court Judge or cx-Judge ot the Sui>- officials. High Court Judges, Ministers, reme Court or of various High Courts, Chief Minister of a State and other probably because neither the State officials from different parts of India. Goverments nor the Central Govern The third set with which the Govern ment approached them. We also do ment is mostly concerned consists of not have the opinion of sevral others. opinions received from the Stste Gov That is the very difficulty which was ernments, which represent perhaps experienced in the case of the National the reacUons of the Senior Civilian Rifle Association. They were not asked Offiicials. by the Delhi or Bombay State Govern- 2495 Indian Anns 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2496 [Shri U. C. Patnaikl ments to give their opinion. They Thirdly, we have the opinions relat wanted to send their opinion direct, ing to the placing on the Table of the but they were told that opinions can House rules framed under the Act. not be sent direct but should come The majority of State Governments, up through the State Government con except one or two State Governments cerned, with the result that they were have no objection. Almost all forced to take the trouble of printing the States have stated that they have and sending their opinion in the form no objection to the laying of the rules of a brochure to hon. Members. I on the Table of the House. In fact, believe most of the hon. Members have some of the State Governments have got it. They have also sent typed gone further and stated that it would copies of the law prevailing in other be desirable to lay the rules on the countries and how far they do not Table of the House because it would tally with the corresponding laws in give the House an opportunity to dis this country. cuss the same and to make further suggestions. That is a very important I would submit that those opinions point raised by one or twto of the that have been authoritatively called State Governments and the majority for or received from the concerned of State Governments have agreed to State Governments are fairly useful that part of it. and are of help to us in studying this subject and awproaching it from the As regards the other part, namely, correct perspective. Regarding the exemption to certain classes of per opinions of the State Governments, I sons from the purview of this Act by will very briefly summarise them, be amending section 1 of the Act, I had cause there have been certain reports suggested that there should be a that the opinions are against the Bill clause (c) that— in many cases whereas the opinions are really not so. In classifying the “a member of the State legis opinions of the State Govmments, I lature or a member of either House would like to do so under three major of Parliament, an officer of the heads: gazetted rank or a member of the Rifle Club recognised by Govern Most of the State Governments have ment or an officer of the Home objected to the amendment envisaged Guards, Territorial Army. Civil in clause 4, namely: Defence Organisation or of the “Provided that all arms so seized Cadet forces possessing private shall without delay be produced weapons, subject to such restric before a District Magistrate or a tions as the Central Government Sub-Divisional Magistrate or a may from time to time impose, Magistrate of the First Class who for limiting the number of such may, if he is satisfied, order the private weapons.” immediate return of the arms, to the licensee.” I had asked certain categories to be given exemption under the Arms Act To this, the majority of State Gov as a first step towards liberalisation of ernments have objected. arms. I also suggest that the Central But the main issue is that there may Government may from time to time, be relaxation of the Arms Act as re by notification in the official gazette, gards certain, categories of persons. make rules to require the registration On that issue the State Governments of all arms purchased or possessed by are divided in their opinions and the persons either under clause (c) of arguments advanced by those who section 1 or under section 27. As re are against are based upon certain gards this latter clause, many of the principles which have to be taken In State Govemmcnts are asiveable to to consideration. have the sceond part of it, namely. ^97 Indian Arms 10 DECEMBEB 1954 (Amendment) Bill 249% registration ot arms under Section 27. House, but does not see any. necessity But -some of the States are against for granting e^^emptions. Regarding both parts taken together, namely members of legislature^ Bihar says cxempition and registration. Their that recent instructions issued to argument mostly is that section 27 licence granting authorities are that ■of the Act provides for certain they should grant licences to these exemptions. I would point out members of legislatures whenever they here that many of the States have apply except in exceptional cases.... suggested that the amendments can be The Minisier of Home Affairs and accepted; those few who have objected States (Dr. Katju): May I suggest have done so on the ground that that all hon. Members are expected to already there is section 27 and Gov read these papers? ernment could suitably extend the pro visions, exercise the powers under that Shri U. C. Patnaik: There are a section 27 and grant exemption in number of papers. I am just sum certain cases if they like. marising them very briefly. Then it Some say it is not desirable to have says that the practice prevailing ib the this classification. They say that there State, namely, freer grant of licences should be no distinction between to all these categories, would serve the Parliament Members, officials and purpose. Manipur supports the Bill in others on the one hand and the rest to to. of the public on the other; this, they say, would be discrimination. I would Paper No. II: Mysore supports the just draw the attention of the House Bill in toto, and says that the pro to the opinions that have been received posed amendments are reasonable and the Government is in entire agreement in this context. I will briefly summa rise them, because there have been with them. PEPSU says that it is agreeable to clause 5, namely, laying press reports that the majority of the States have given an adverse opinion. on the Table, but,as far as clause 2 I would point out that it is not so. is concerned, it says that it requires a tightening of the provisions of adminis In Paper No. I, Bilaspur has no tration. West Bengal is opposed, but comments on either of the proposals. it says further that, though it does not Bhopal has no comments. (Interrup accept the proposed amendments, as tion). These are the views that have moved by me. the system of licensing been received which I am summaris arms, as it stands, should be main ing. tained, but in view of the changed Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Why does not conditions of the country, the granting the hon. Member start with the major of arms should be on a most liberal States? scale as long as the person whom a licence is granted conforms to two Shri U. C. Fatnaik: I am proceed criteria, namely, security of the State ing, if I may be permitted, according and fitness of the particular individual. to the papers that have been received and placed on the Table of the House. Then I go to Paper No. III. Vindhya Kutch is against it. Pradesh supports both and says that the proposed amendments appear to Mr. Depnty-Speaker; I think at this be quite reasonable and the State Gov rate the whole allotted time of one ernment has no further suggestions to hour will be taken by the hon. Mem make. Hyderabad does not say any ber himsell. thing on clause 5, but opposes clauses Shri U. C. Patnaik: I wiU finish in 2 to 4. Ajmer supports both. Paper ten minutes. No. IV; Himachal Pradesh says that Kutch says it is inexpedient Uttar clause 2 does not seem to be neces Pradesh opposes it—it is a major sary because section 27, if properly State. Bihar does not oppose clause 5, exercised, would serve the purpose, that is, laying on the Table of the but it supports the other clauses. 3499 Indion Artiw 10 DICEMBI® 1854 (Aniendment) Bill a W LSlai U. C. Pataaikl Andhra is opposed to clause'2 on the Government may serve the purpose. same ground, but it is not opposed to Madhya Bharat also suggests that the the insertion of clause 5. Rajasthan deflnitiem of ‘arms’ be confined only has given very nice suggestions in re to fire-arms and not to spears, knives gard to other sections of the Act, that and other things which may come the definition of ‘arms’ should exclude under arms. Madras has no particular spear, knife and other things and, objection to clause 5, nor does it see muzzle loading guns are not to be any particular necessity, but as re licensed but registered. It supports gards clauses 2, 3 and 4, it thinks that clause 5 as it would enable Parliament they are unnecessary. Bombay has no to discuss the rules. As regards the objection to the insertion of the new other thing, it says that it wants that section 34, i.e. clause 5, but says the persons described may be- granted time is not ripe to liberalise the pro exemptions under section 27 and sup visions of the Act. It would be more ports registration for persons under appropriate to grant exemptions under section 25. Tripura supports both. section 27. Andaman and Nicobar Islands support both. Travancore-Cochin supports Papei No. VII: Orissa is not in clause 5, but says that there favour Ilf the amendments as pro is no necessity for granting statutory posed’ in the BUI, but says that the exemption, as the Central Govern time has come when there must be a ment have powers under section 27 to change in the approach with regard grant exemptions. The Jammu ana to the Arms Act. Delhi opposes the Kashmir Government opposes the limited scope of the proposed amend amendments. Paper No. V; Saurashtra ments and goes further; the opinion supports clause 5, but welcomes regis No. 30, the last paper received, is from tration under section 27. But it says headquarters. It says that a beginning that the relaxation under clause 2 at may be made by issuing instructions present may prove unwise. Coorg says to the effect that licences should be that there should not be complete granted, irrespective of considerations exemption, but that members of the of financial status, to all persons who legislatures and others mentioned in are good citizens and who are not sus clause 2(c) should be able to obtain pected of participation in any anti licences as a matter of course without' social activities, ted suggests that a being charged any fee, and that licence more liberal policy be adopted by to any person may be refused only in executive instructions rather than by exceptional cases. Madhya Pradesh is any drastic change in the existing not in favour of the provisions except Indian Arms Act. But the Chief the insertion of clause 5. Minister goes further and supports the amendments in toto. So also the Then I deal with paper No. VI; Ministers of some other States and the Assam opposes clauses 2 to 4, but has majority of High Court Judges—they no objection to clause 5. Punjab says have supported it. that clause 5 is desirable and may be adopted, but opposes clauses 2 to 4. I would therefore submit that this Madhya Bharat opposes clause 4, and is a fit case where the provisions in regard to clause 2 says it is un should be reconsidered, revised and necessary to have it as the present law redrafted. The hon. the Home Minis is sufficient to make this facility ter has been very sympathetic to our available to the legislators at the proposals to revise the Arms Act; he option of the Government of India, has been very sympathetic to the and so on. Then it Is said the secur grant of weapons to all districts for ing of exemption by way of an amend training purposes and we have been ment to the statutory niles is not told that 8 weapons have been sanc 'necessary, but some instructions from tioned for each district for practice 2501 Indian Arms 10 BBOKMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2502^ purposes along with ammunition, pro piece of a westMn. In fact, the Madras vided the State Government accepted Government wanted us to reconsider the responsibility of running the train that question. Even an unserviceable- ing schemes. So I am happy to an part of a weapon has Ijeen considered nounce that the majority of the Mem by some courts to be an offence to bers of this House feel that in this possess and by others not as an offence. particular matter, our Home Ministry They want this to be revised. We are- has been favourable to our demands. still at a stage when outmoded, un We are anxious that it should be ex serviceable and useless things which pedited and a new Bill should be there. cannot be used at all are classed as I am not very particular that my Bill, “arms”; even a dagger or a knife may as it is, should ultimately emerge out be a weapon. Some of these have to of the legislature. I am anxious to set be considered and I would appeal to the law in motion, to see that an the hon. Home Minister to see that examination of the subject is made to there is a new Act and that he is ensure that the entire Act is reorient associated with a new Act to do away ed so that our arms law comes into wi;h the existing previsions of the line with the arms laws of other free Arms Act and to revise it. As far as- countries. I am concerned, I am not very parti cular of my moving this motion for For instance, in other countries, Select Committee because I want that “fire-arms” come under the puiVIBW Government should also take this of the Arms laws: and that too, not all matter up. It would be better for Gov fire-arms but those of dangerous types ernment to accept this motion to have only and in certain places. For a Select Committee or to introduce example, in U.K., you do not require another Bill and to agree to this Bill a licence to have a weapon in your being taken up. house; you require it only when you Mr. Depnty-Speaker Motion moved:- go out to shoot birds, and you get licenses or registration certificates “That the Bill further to amend from the Post Office by making a the Indian Arms Act, 1878, be certain payment. Unless there is any referred to a Select Committee objection to ,^ny individual applying consisting of Dr. Kailas Nath for arms because he comes under Katju, Shri Balwant Nagesh Datar, certain categories and may not, there Shri Narhar Vishnu Gadgil, Shri- fore, be considered desirable to hold mati Uma Nehru, Shri Satis the arm, his registration stands. _ Chandra Samanta, Shri Nemi Chandra Kasliwal, Shri Nagesh- So also in America. There is no licence fee for breach-loading guns or war Prasad Sinha, Shri Kotha for '22 bore guns or for revolvers and Kaghuramaiah, Shri Tek Chand, rifles, pistols etc. It is only for what Shri N. C. Chatterjee, Shri Sadhan are called “gangster weapons” that the Chandra Gupta, Shri B. Rama- restrictions come in: where a rifle is chandra Reddl, Pandit Thafcur Das cut to a certain size so that it can be ' Bhargava, His Highness Maharaja concealed, tftken out unnoticed and Sri Kami Singhji Bahadur of used as a gangster weapon. To that Bikaner, Shrimati Ila Pal- choudhuri, Shri U. R. Bogawat,. they object and try to see that such Shri N. Keshavaiengar, Shri K. S. weapons are not very freely In use Raghavachari, Shri Shankar because they lead to gangsterism. Shantaram More, Dr. Ram Subhag^ Otherwise, there Is no difficulty about Shigh, Shri N. Somana, Shri K, G. having weapons of certain types, for Wodeyar, Sardar Hukam Singh, practice rifles, for .22 bore guns or .12 guns and 90 on. Sardar Amar Singh Saigal, Shri Sitanath Brohmo-Chaudhury, Shri Here, In our country, it is an offence U. M. Trivedi, Shri Bhagwat Jha even to have a useless and broken ‘Azad’. Shri. Lakshman Singh ^503 Indian Arms 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill >504 [Mr. Deputy-Speaker] Charak, Shri Radha Raman, Shri- debate. I may be permitted at the mati Tarkeshwari Sinha, Shri end to offer my views. There is time Ba;ianta Kumar Das, Shri Joachim for one or two Members at least to Alva, Shri S. V. Ramaswamy, Shri speak. B. Venkataraman, Shri Nardeo Snatak, Shri Dodda Thiminaiah, Shrimati Da Palchoudhary (Nabad- Shri Digambar Singh, Shri wip): I welcome Shri Patnaik’s Bill Rameshwar Sahu, Choudhary wholeheartedly because I think that Raghubir Singh, Shri Jagannath not to have an amendment of the Kolay, Shri Panna Lai, Shri Y. Arms Act is a blot on free India today. 'Gadilingana Gowd, Shri Girraj This Arms Act is really a legacy of •Saran Singh, Shri M. L. Dwivedi, the British times when they were. ■and the Mover, with instructions afraid to let us have arms. Now that -to report by the last week ol the condition cannot exist. I do not think, next session.” although so many aspersions are cast on this Government, that, our Govern Last week of the next session is very ment has any reason to be frightened indefinite. Therefore, the hon. Mem to let the people, by and large, have ber may change it to 31st March, 1955. arms if they so desire. Arms are Shri U. C. Patnaik 1 accept it. Sir. needed mainly for two purposes, for protection and sport. Neither of these Dr. Katjn: Sir, may I just intervene two reasons can be gainsaid. If we to say that we have all heaid the want it for protection, surely there speech with great interest. The can be no objection! If it is for sport, opinions received from the State Gov it will certainly develop the physique ernments are very varied and will of our youths and infuse enthusiasm require careful consideratiori. The wherever training is imparted, like the whole matter is being very actively National Cadet Corps etc. In schools, Considered by Government and I do and in various training centres boys hope that within a month or two some have to be trained with sticks or what precise and definite decision will be ever is available, because firearms in reached and, if possible, a Bill might adequate numbers are unavailable. It be introduced. I would, therefore, sug does not really create enthusiasm! gest to my hon. friend that he had From that point of view alone, licences better adjourn this motion and agree should be easy to come by. On the to its adjournment and it might be other hand, I would say that it is taken up in the first week of March quite right, for licences to be scruti for further consideration. By that nised so that people of unsound mind time, I hope, Government will be able or those who are criminally-minded to come to some definite conclusion are prevented from getting them. That ■and will, if possible, introduce a Bill undoubtedly is the job of the Licencing of its own and both the Bills may be Officer. combined together and that vrtU save There are two categories of firearms public time. If my friend is satisfied that are used, firearms that can be with the Government Bill, he may then used individually and firearms that withdraw his Bill as he indicated, or have to be used in a mechanised way lioth the Bills may be combined by the defence forces for the protec together. tion of the country. Let there be close Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Is the hon. restriction on things like bombs, hand .Member willing? grenades and such like arms by all Shri U. C. Patnaik: I think the means. As for firearms getting into the 3usiness Advisory Committee has hands of imdesirable people, that, I allotted one hour for this Bill. Some think, can hardly be entirely control ■seventeen minutes , are still left. Some led. Everybody knows that the devious hon. Members may ijontribute to the ways by which dacolts, criminals. 3505 Indian Arms 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2506 terrorists and so forth, get their guns, lias always remained a source of mystry! It was quite beyond the scope M- i of the police to control that entirely, ij ■even in British times with aU their vigilance. I support this Bill because it will create enthusiasm amongst our young people to protect the country and to - JL.xs-1 JJ ^ form a second line of defence when ever it will be needed. We should have a network of rifle clubs where our youths can be trained to use fire-arms cri ^ lAfi *1! O'! properly. Along with these there should also be places for training in W W*-' ^ the use of the sword, dagger, lathi «nd instruction given in ji-jutsit and c M J J — )’ wrestling. That will enhance unity and r ^ c ^ ji create a stronger India. ^ If you look back to 1945, 1946 and 1947 to what happened in Bengal. Who in Bengal can ever forget those years! Under foreign rule, administered J - L>** through channels that were unsy mpathetic what utter misery was let loose 1 The dire calamity that hap pened could have been avoided then had we had adequate fire-arms. ^Ls-jiU. Jj> Uola. Those years are written in fire on on the mind of Bengal; Let us not ^ JUjouI i have a repetition of that, should any \s m - J - J. occasion arise. We must have fire arms in a free country to be used for the good of the community and to strengthen our hands. If our youths ^ ,j ^ ^ JiU today have flrerarms and are trained, it will improve their health, it will X ^ », ,S J ,$ give them confidence and, above all, they will at least learn to shoot J) J. ,lit is-fcUo. - JJ ri^t, to shoot straight and to shoot fairly. ^ u S “ *-l Jjt *1! ^ ^ ^ ^ a *1! ^ j ar* jL*s»( yii ^ J is ^ W 1 U-! 1 ^ orr a*- ^ It*’ ^ ^ J, vi I ^rv a- u*ia. If us*' ““iM ^ gangsters « ,jL»j *S l^t, 951 LSD 2507 Indian Arms 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2508 M jla. „l ^ l*S ,^J»I K ^1 ‘-^1 ^ ) i-i^l ^_j» ») ^ ^<1’*^ ,j) - 1^0 >$ l4»*e (> fi'j J>^. 1 tri^ LT> J* ura ii- ^ '^ ih ) ^,L.* - ft> JL*X-I Ut^,j L>** -i a*" \J*^'-‘- ^ »* - a*^) d' - 1^ tlttlj iS !_)** 0^ )- O*^ J>+J Uj| «, ijU, yt> ii 15*5^, i:)f i O*^ )5> K ^j.1 ^cSt l_C|ll yX tS ^ ij ^ . JU.O-1 Ui UlS K tS ^ ^ ii K ^ ur-)' i:)’ «» ^W3J JJ i i ^ JL ^I tii jj i le! fil LT* <:* u/)* ^ O*^ (English translation of the ubooe k-Jl=,. Ji p? - IjtS t! yj ^ speech.) K tS-X.l*J)lj iS ^ ii Th. Lakshman Sinefa Charak (Jammu and Kashmir): While supporting the- ^ ^1 ^ Bill that has been brought before the House by Shri Patnaik I wish to say «s *%•) c / r ^ '^) y a few words. *u- ^ u jj I r - 11 ^ tj.1 ila. iSl India got freedom in 1947, Since- then we have passed through vari ^ *J ■‘>d)-l» K ous stages and are now in a position when the Arms Act that had enact i ,Xt-i JiM ed by the British with a view' to keeping India in bondage and turn », ~X*^ J: o-f ~ ^ J’ji ing the Indians into a weak and tJ*U ^ £ timid people should be amended. It will not be proper at the present ^ j+a-JK ^ »5 - ^ moment to say that the Arms Act should be scrapped altogether or t=jUiis>; ^ ijj? *J ^ that there should be complete free dom for the keeping of arms. My ‘*^3 ‘=~?( L>* • tr> .')( - 4 friend, Shri Patnaik, has cited the instances of England and America. ij*^ JJ i_r^ - ^ iJta- i-CI I too have some experience of these tS^ IJ.I iS Uftl UyS countries. I am of the view that it is desirable for every Indian young- - A ^y> lj> I^-V man to receive training in the use of arms and to be able to handle £_ i i,.~aal»» yCr»JL* them effectively so that be may be in a509 Indian Arms 10 DECEMBER T954 (Amendment) Bill 2510 a position to use them for the de exhaustively, but I very humbly sub fence of his country or for self-de mit that this Act of 1878 has put fence or for sport, but, at the same very serious restrictions on the grant time, I feel that the arms should not of licences to the citizens of this be made so freely available that country. There is a historical back they might come to be misused. In ground for that. After the war of America there was general freedom independence in the year 1858 under to keep pistols and other arms in the leadership of the Queen of 1933, with the result that the Jhansi, the British people thought country came to be faced with the that it was to their interest in order danger of a parallel Government to continue their hold in this country, being set up by gangsters. Accord to disarm the whole population. So, ingly, President Roosevelt had to with that view in mind the British amend the law in 1935, so that arms people from time to time enacted could be put to right and proper use. several Indian Arms Acts and ulti Examples may also be cited from mately they enacted the Indian Arms nearer home. We know about the Act of 1878. happenings in Telangana and also Now, to stick to that Act under flow these arms were misused In the conditions of freedom will be Rajasthan. All that does not mean, certainly injustice against the citi however, that we should not remove zens of this country. I do not pro the difficulties which a good citizen pose to make any exhaustive speech has to face in obtaining a gun on this point, but I would certainly licence. The position at the present submit, looking to the definition moment is such that even if a mem given under this Act, that it is for ber of the Parliament applies for a the Government now to reconsider the licence it takes him 11 to 12 months whole Act, or as my hon. friends in getting the same, thanks to red- have suggested, enact some other new tapism. The procedure for the grant Act regarding the granting of anu. of a licence is a very lengthy one. An application has to be submitted Looking to the definitions given to the Deputy Commissioner who for under this Act clause (4)—“arms” wards it to a Sub Inspector for en and “ammunitions”—I can say that quiry who, in his turn, passes it on they are not definitions as such, but to a Constable who goes to the vil they are simply descriptions. It says, lage and makes an on the spot en that “arms” includes fire-arms, bayo quiry. All this takes considerable nets, swords, daggers, spears, bows and time. Hence, I feel that this Act must arrows, cannons, parts of arms, ma be amended. In expressing his views chinery for manufacture etc. etc. So, before the House today the Home looking to this description of arms Minister has assured us that he would I can say, that any relic of old soon bring forth an amending Bill. weapon comes under the descrip Accordingly, I would request him to tion given in this Act of 1878. Simi keep in view, in doing so, what I larly, the description of “ammuni- have just stated, so that while law- nitions” is also very curious, highly abiding citizens should not have any illogical and surprising. (So, I very difficulty in acquiring arms the law humbly submit, look to the pro should not at the same time be so visions of that Act, the time has liberal as to be susceptible of misuse come for the Government of India and of creating a dangerous situa to revise the whole Act. tion for the society. One more point which I want to ShM Kanavade Patll (Ahmed- suggest is this. Looking to the con nagar North): The present proposed ditions of lawlessness prevailing in amendment to the Indian Arms Act certain parts of the country, it is of 187-8 is indeed a very important really very important that Govern amendment. For want oi time I do ment should issue licences liberally not want to deal with the subject to the citizens and they should form 3511 Indian Arms 10 DECEMBER 1954 (Amendment) Bill 2512 [Shri Kanavade Patil] volunteer groups and train them in a very sacred part—of the duty of the use of arms. As we all know, re this Parliament the safety of persons cently, rifle clubs, as in Delhi have and property in the villages. I know been started under the patronage of we have got police and a number certain good friends. I would like of them have got arms. But, police to Submit very humbly in the inter always go to the scene of offence est of peace that conditions in the after the offence has been committed. country even today, in spite of the As it has been suggested here by best and strenguous efforts of our certain friends, police do not check offence. They do not learn about Home Ministries to maintain law and order, have not improved to the offences beforehand. They go to the extent that they were before 1942 or scene only after the crimes have 1943. I come from the rural areas been committed. Therefore, to create and I know what sort of conditions a sort of terror in the minds of these exist there. The villagers are to keep criminals and to check the increas vigilance throughout the whole ing crimes in the country, it is but night. I know hundreds of such vil natural that this Parliament, as part lages not only in Maharashtra but of its duty should pass a new liber in several parts of India. They have alising the grant of .licences. to keep vigilance throughout the I may submit. Sir, may be, that night. They have no arms to defend after we have armed people thoro themselves and they keep vigilance ughly, it would be a second line of in the expectancy that they would d'efence also in this country. There be looted or the village would be fore, my humble submission is, so invaded by dacoits at any time. Even far as each district is concerned, there two fire-arms can frighten the whole should be at least 500 to 1,000 or 2,000 village of a population of one thou people who should be granted licences sand or even more. That condition in the villages and they should be ask must change. If we liberally grant ed to form volunteer groups. They arms to the civilians, at least to the should be asked to keep the peace in good citizens after making a thorough examination about their integrity the villages by resisting the mis and character, and train young men creants, criminals and the dacoits. in the villages in the use of arms, I With these words I think I should am sure, there would be peaceful not take time of the House any fur conditions existing in the villages. I ther. But looking to the amendments know that there are certain villages of my hon. friend Shri Patnaik, I which have been raided by the da am tempted to say that the amend coits from 9 P. M. up to 5 A. M. in ments for the present are quite suffi the morning as there was no resis cient and they may be accepted by tance—even some four dacoits can raid the Government. a village of a population of about Mr. D)e|nity-Speaker: The hon. 400 to 500 as the village cannot resist Minister can make the motion for without arms. They raid every house adjournment. and still there is no resistance. There The Deputy Minister of Home is nothing to resist with, and people Affairs (Shri Datar); I beg to move: are harrassed like anything. ITiere- “That further consideration of fore, Sir, in view of so many circum this Bill be postponed till the stances prevailing in the country, it third week of March, 1955.” woiild be a wise thing to issue arms Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Thereafter to the people. any Bill that comes must take its When we know that we have been chance in the ballot. The motion elected here by our own people— has to be moved. the citizens of the country—^to arm Shri Bashavachui (Penukcnda): them liberally, we are not obliging Sir, once or twice on previous occa them in any way. It is a part—and sions of discussion on Bills when 2513 Women’s and Children’s 10 DECEMBER 1954 Institutions Licensing 2514 Bill the Government was prepared to ac Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Let her fin cept the principle and said that they ish her speech. . themselves would bring a Bill to the same effect, the discussion was ad Shri Pataskar: She referred to it journed sijic die so that they may and, therefore, I wanted to inter be taken up along with the Bill which vene. the Government would bring. Mr. Depnty-Speaker; After the Shri Datar; I have no objection. motion is placed before the House, the hon. Minister say what he likes. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The ques- tion is: [Shrimati Khong men in the Chair] “That further discussion on this Bill be adjourned sine die.” iiy?; : ans *<^1' ^ ^ The motion was adopted. fir ?m r if oini ari*? 3 ir VT 1 aiTT ^ 5 HiVl arfnTf aif? T^gf ^ WOMEN’S AND CHILDREN’S grarr ^ aift 3tf gTm* anr'T^f^r ^ grev INSTITUTIONS LICENSING ^ >/«'J ^ « =} iff »n grair if" Vm hi »tt 3R" i^ fs"5Trer ir^ti I irr^ I tffrq- tp: anrf ?f w T im Jlinf fs iw iff ^ fir fW ^ 4'' ^ ^ ?4ir I ^ itmir 'd+)*i ^ ?;ar 1 f if 5tFT# ^ if^ 3tf 5^ ^ nw ^ Hif^ a?TO furiTcr 5T? 31T ^ !H>-f ^ ^'■»i fW iff atrar »it i iff ^ f 3tf Hiira' if ?f r?r # I atf? mr ^ I =r iTRiir 3inf ?f r?r ^ 1 HfjT iff fir TO' ^ inrinf f 1 fir fro’ ^ if ITTT ^ *n f?nf if ^ arr^ n if' arii ^f ^ fir tn I airsr ? nv if ff rfiff arf^ ara TiW^ ffiTRr if ^ # ?FTT I ^ffV^r if^' ^ 5 5nr arft ^ 3tf Ji?f amff f jnff fW an^rr «n wf !ir?T irstr 3nfr ^ I fir flff ^ iR ^fi «n__ ^ urn# f iruRT if i1 W *t f^r?iT The Minister in the Ministry of '"iw I if aif? 5T ^ ^ fir ^ Law (Shri Pataskar): May I inter ^niff ^ arf? if ifirH r^ ^ fir vene for five minutes? A Bill almost ^ identical____ ifr HTf' atf? ? f ^ I 2515 Women’s and Children’s 10 DECEMBER 1954 Institutions Licensing 2516 BiU Mr. 'Chairman: Motion moved: As stated, one Bill is now being brought. Because there are so many “That the Bill to regulate and technical questions involved, I think licence institutions caring for women aiid children; be taken when these two Bills are before the into consideration.” House, it is much better so that the whole thing can be discussed in a proper perspective. The Government Shrl Pataskar: I might intervene is in full sympathy with the object at this stage to bring to the notice underlying it, and if there has been of the hon. Members of the House delay, I may say that it has been due certain facts. A Bill identical to the to the fact that probably there was Bill now moved was discussed at the some doubt as to whether such a legis instance of Shrimati Maniben Patel. lation comes in the Concurrent List I think it was discussed on the 3rd or the State List. But so far as the April and 3rd September 1954 for Government is concerned, it has taken about three hours, and the Home a decision and now that Bill also will Minister then intervened and ex be introduced in this House. The plained as to what the position was, which I will again clarify as the opinions of the various State Govern matter stands at present. That Bill ments were invited. In fact, with re was adjourned yine die after dis gard to children, in Bombay there is cussion for about three hours. The some provision already made. In view position at the present moment is of these things and the fact that that with respect to children—the already the Bill relating tr children BiU relates to children and women has been passed by the other House, —a Bill was already introduced by I assure the House that the Bill will Government in the Rajya Sabha and be introduced in this House before the has been passed by them. I think end of this session. The Bill is already it has come to this House, but it has t)iere. it has been even sent to the not been discussed so far as this House Lok Sabha Secretariat, but now that is concerned,. I think that was also the the House is in session, naturally the state of things at the time when the Speaker would not like to publish it Home Minister intervened last time without leave being granted for that on the 3rd September 1954. purpose. That Bill, I have ascertained the intention of the Government, will be introduced in this House before the As regards the other Bill for sup end of this session. pression of immoral traffic in women and girls,—these are the two counter Mr. Chairman- In view of what the parts—it has baen sent to the Lok hon. Minister has said, what does the Sabha Secretariat. It was sent some hon. Mover of the motion want to time back for being published, but on say? enquiry, I learn today that it is not yet published for the technical reason Sbrimati Uma Nehru: I would like that when the House is in session, it to continue, and I do not intend to they would not like to publish it with withdraw the Bill. out the permission of the House. Therefore, I propose that Government Shri Pataskar: There is one more —either myself or the Home Minis thing which I would like to bring to ter—will introduce a Bill before the the notice of the hon. Members. end of this session with respect to Many of the lady Members have given the other part of this measure. It is notice of certain Bills. The Children’s. desirable, therefore, that when these BiU only relates to Part C States, and two Bills are brought forward in the as I said, it was thought at one time House, that is, both for children as that the Central Government, or, well a« lor women, I think the matter rath*, the Union Parliament can would ie in a better position than it legislate only for Part C States and stnds present. not to other States. It was doubtful 3517 Women’s and Children’s 10 DECEMBER 1954 Institutions Licensing 2518 BiU whether this subject was in the con to give licence to those Homes which current list. Now, so far as this Gov are genuine. We want to protect the ernment is concerned, when that Bill children from being exploited by bogus ■comes before us, we will examine it. Homes. This Bill includes the children J think the Government is now in of other description, besides the clined the view that Parliament can delinquent children, while the Child make legislation on that subject. 'They ren’s Bill is restricted and gives pro have ascertained the views of several tection only to those children who are States, and with the exception of one delinquents and who will be brought or two perhaps, most of the States before the juvenile courts. So, I have agreed, that the Centre could would like to ask the Minister to legislate. The present view, as I find, make it clear. While speaking on that appears to be that we can legislate. Bill in the Rajya Sabha, I think it Therefore, as I said, at the time when was Mrs. Sita Paramanand who had the Children’s Bill comes before this drawn the attention of the Minister Bouse, suitable amendments can be to this fact. But I do not think that moved and Government can examine this question was discussed in the the question. We also want that there Rajya Sabha. So, I would like the must be one uniform law applicable Minister to make it clear whether the to women and children throughout scope will be widened in the Children’s India. Bill and whether the licensing of other Homes also will be included in Sbrimati Sushama Sen (Bhagalpur the Children’s Bi’ . South): 1 had introduced the Child ren’s Protection Bill, and it was Shri Patadtar. m tne circumstances, accepted by the Education Ministry, I have no desire that discussion but after that, I find that it has been should be avoided. It can go on. absolutely shelved. The Bill that was brought forward by Government was Mr. Chairmaa: I think the Mover meant only for part C States it will as well as other Members are very not apply to other States. This Bill keen that there should be discussion. which has been brought up now, is So, I think we could discuss the Bill. really somewhat like my Bill, and it seeks to regulate and license children’s Shrimati A. Kale (Nagpur): I would homes, etc. So, I do not see why the like to say a few words with regard private Members’ Bills should not be to the Bill that has been Sponsored taken into consideration. Each time a by Shrimati Uma Nehru. T^is Bill private Member’s Bill comes up, it seems to license the institutions is shelved. I have a bit of complaint which are meant for women an; regarding this procedure. 1 say that children. I would like to go a step, private Members’ Bill should be con further and suggest that all such 'n sidered and my Bill about protection stitutionis should be taken over bj ■for children should also come in. Government and properly conducted becatise, there was a bad csm ir r?' Shri D. C. Sharma (Hoshiarpur): State where to all .intents and pur The ballot has been favourable to the poses, in the House which was ru? other lady Member and not to you. for me protection of destitute women Shrimati Jayashri (Bombay-Subur- the women were freely being used foi han): Last time I had an opportunity immoral purposes. The police found to express my views on this Bill. At it out and now the institution is undei that time also, I had said that* the Government care. But why should w( Children’s ‘Bill should have included wait till such cases are found out in its scope the other children also, In order that the Homes are run pro besides delinquents. But it has res perly, my suggestion is that wherevei tricted its scope only to delinquents. those Homes are situated, they shoulc This Bill which is now before the aU be controlled and conducted be House intends to ask the Government Government so that there will bi 2519 Vfomen’s and Children’s 10 DECEMBER 1954 Institutions Licensing ij2o Bill [Shrimati A. Kale] regular supervision and these poor something to improve that institution. women wiU not bg made use of lor When she found it impossible to move immoral purposes. Government further, she just asked, us to move in this matter here. The So is the case for children's institu House will see that almost all the- tions also. Many ol the elder children women Members of this House hav& that infest the streets and all sorts of taken up the same Bill to impress, localities are sent as agents by some upon the Government that this disease people who regularly trade in this of society is a very serious one and. business, and those people are making it has been there for a very long, huge tons of money while they do not time. So, it is '.he duty of the Govern afford any facilities for the education ment to do something in the matter and improvement of children. So, il as women and children are very im Government takes over all these in portant assets to society. Therefore, it stitutions, I think law and order could is the duty of the Government io look, be more secure and this longstanding into this matter as early as possible. blot On our society will also be re The Law Minister said just now moved. After all, in the Constitution, that in Bombay State a law of this we have our fundamental rights nature has already been passed lor guaranteed. It is guaranteed to aU the children; but it does not cover the citizens, - and the citizens include whole of the State, it only relates t» women and children, but the destitute some big cities. And the reason women have no freedom of action r shown that Government has not got behaviour and they lead a life of enough funds to apply it to all the shame and misery. The Homes do not small places in the Bombay State. take any care of them and they do What I leel is that Government not see that they get education so should* first give money to such things that they may improve in the years as are most important and then bring to come. Therefore, all these inequali their attention to .other things whidc ties that obtain in society have got are less necessary in the State. to be removed. I would, therefore, request the Minister of Law to be more sympathetic and be more prone Shrimati Kale Just now pointed out to improve the lot of these people that there are so many institutions for whom there is nobody to speak. which pretend that they are doine I would request the Minister not to some social work in the society but indulge in dilly-dally measures as, I which actually exploit the women and am afraid, he is indulging in, and children in the society and use them allow this measure to be passed. The for immoral purposes. It will not be Homes should be immediately taken possible for Government to take over over by Government so that the lot all such institutions but at least Gov of the women can be improved. ernment should license these institu tions so that they cannot carry on- Shrimati Maydeo (Poona South): I such immoral activities. should like to say a few words. When this Bill is brought forward in I feel therefore that in this case at this House, the Government have least the Government should give the come forward to say that they are privilege to a non-offlcial Member to bringing in such Bills very soon and move this Bill and get it passed. so we should take back this Bill. But I would like to point out that in Shrimati Sushama Sen: 1 wauU Delhi there is a institution of moral like to point out the very great neces and social hygiene and on behalf of sity of the "Women’s and CbildTeD'& that institution Shrimati Rameshwari Instituti Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava (Gur- Shri T. S. A. Chettiar: I believe all gaon): We have not been able to these Homes are run as charitable follow what fell from the hon. institutions. And if they are charit Minister. able institutions, they come under the Concurrent List under the item which Shri Pataskar; I will explain that. I just now read out. I do not think When I intervened at an earlier stage, j that things are very clear that because I said that there wr.s a Children’s Bill | of item No. 4 in the State List in the which was introduced in the Rajya j Seventh Schedule, these things are Sabha which has been passed by them, " entirely barred from Central direction and which will come here. Now, it and management. I think it is up to relates only to Part C States because the Government of India to take legal it was thought that so far as this opinion in this matter and see whether House, or Parliament, was concerned, it does not come under 28 of the con it was competent to enact such legis current list which I read just now— lation for such institutions only in Charities and Charitable Institutions. Part C States. With regard to A and B States, that ought to be done, in I would like to say one thing more. view of the provision in article 4 of Even presuming that 'Government the Constitution, by the States them finds a constitutional difficulty in this selves, and I take this opportunity of matter, I think there may not be any explaining any misunderstanding that difficulty in accepting it at least so may exist. We also approached the far as Part C States are concerned. State Governments and most of them In this matter I think we will be doing have agreed that after this Bill is well in giving the lead to the State passed, they would introduce in their Governments, knowing the evils as own State Legislatures uniform Bills we do, knowing the abuses as we do so that any constitutional diflRculty and knowing that in every big city, will not remain and there will be uni the so-called homes are the most form provision for all children abused institutions except where they throughout all States. It is not a ques are managed by enlightened people. tion of any desire on the part of the Government to evade the issue, but I Somebody said here that “the children there is a constitutional difficulty of the nation are a sacred trust of which they will try to overcome by this House and of this country”. the proposed measure. That is what There is no truer statement than that. they are doing. The future of the nation lies in the children of this great country. I see Shri Tek Chand (Ambala-Simla); many of them going about in the When? streets without self-respect and with Shri T. S. A. Chettiar; May I point out any semblance of decency. Many out another provision in the same of them are put in ‘Homes’ and they Seventh Schedule under the Concur are exploited and abused, and there rent List? That is item No. 28 which is no kind of regulation existing foi says that charities and charitable them. I am very unhappy about this. Women’s and Children’s 10 DECEMBER 1954 Institutions Licensing 253a Bill [airi T. S. A. Chettiar] We know that wherever people want I ^ 5W qw to get Government grants, some sort of control is there. In the State from ^ ^ ’iT?r which I come, there is considerable ^ atft ^ ^ control over institutions which want ?nf ^ # i to get Government grants—orphanages and the like. I do not refer to these ^ ti is a matter which must be taken up. SIFT, \j«9> qr?r ott vtfT 5?, 3ipi fir fq^ I do believe that Government will frrf qirft f 1 ^ ^ ar qr^ give a sympathetic hearing and a sym q^ ^ ?qw ^ pathetic reception to this suggestion. I do not know whether there are any qr^ 1 nq^ ?qw ^ other objections to this Bill. But qr^ sirar 1 jpi =1^ uraTT certainly there cannot be any objec ^ ^ qi ? : JT5 5lf f, ^ qTrf q!^ 5rnff f 5rnff f ^ ?Tmr qra?'»if anW w ?. ?hiT # I ^nrar 1 apft ^ rnrf '# ^ qw ipit efhnft 5ff, aiw qiw qd ■ainfl ^ in ajpt «iraT ^ aif? y fq; ^ qfmmnr ^ q? ^ ?Tr JTT44'5-i' sift Arsf ?nr f 1 s^T ^ ^ q? fir Jrar? ^ qfiRiisraf ^ iJ J-t: f>j>7r qrr^ ^ tro" 5n^ I IT? t, ??q3lf fiJTTr qSTrft f, ^ qifsptf fnr?T wnr tro" ^Tff >n ?hTT, qiTtft f atft ?5ra- ak ?trt? •TW ^ R)1 ^ ^ f ^0 atft s q^ ^ ^ ij-' q ^ iite: ^ amft f, q^ arf? 2533 Women’s and Children’s 10 DECEMEBER 1954 Electricity (Supply) 2534, Institutions Licensing Amendment Bill Bill ^ amfr ^dtc ^ 3TFTT ^ V^n»J 9tfr# ^rqy ^ ^ fpnif ^ IR?n ^ f ^ ^ frft ^ arft 51T ^ tnf ^ ^iT^ ’tif iTW 5ir jf ^ f arf? f?5nrf ^ t tRfm ^ I ?it ^ ^TfTi VT srf? 51T ar? ^ rw<)i ■fl'^'f*}-^ ^ ?1T jf ^TVTT =T^ HITT?' ^ f I fijr? wfsTtmnr grSW ^ w r ^ aiT*n ^ ^ I", giT ^ ^ 5r^ ^ rTTp: an^ T3IW ?r^ r?if t fsPT ^ r*f r?f ^ 5H*r ^ it? jt w # ^ ^ ^ ;sqT§^ I" atft jf ^ ^ ^TTfft t I sifw f ^ ^ ^ I 5 P.M. !T^ anr f?; '^■’>1' T? 3nmw '«rfW? HT?X ^ J?T»f^ “That leave be granted to intro ^rr^ ?; sr^ arifi duce a Bill further to amend the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1948.” ^ tf^ lV?n # ?Tr 5^ iM >M TTR- lV?n f I jf tnmrm c; ^ 51T The motion was odoptcd. rfs ^ siw7T#4 arf? IV? giT ^ ^ annft Shrimati Rena Chakravartty: I ?rsr ^ 1 >f ?rf ?r^ imfiT introduce the Bill. ^btsttt arr^ft 5tf ?t^ tf^ ^ ^ The Lok Sabha then adjovmed till ^ 5T*r? ^ ^ittW ^ arf? Eleven of the Clock on Saturday, the- ^ ?ir? ^^itiit W llth December. 1954.