Friday Volume 532 9 September 2011 No. 197

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Friday 9 September 2011

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 649 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 650 House of Commons Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill Consideration of Bill, not amended in the Public Bill Committee Friday 9 September 2011 Clause 1 The House met at half-past Nine o’clock DUTIES OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE PRAYERS 9.34 pm The Chairman of Ways and Means took the Chair as Deputy Speaker (Standing Order No. 3). Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): I beg to move amendment 3, page 1, line 2, leave out ‘publishing Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I beg to draft’ and insert ‘presenting’. move, That the House sit in private. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 163), and will be convenient to discuss the following: negatived. Amendment 6, page 1, leave out lines 7 to 10 and insert ‘“legislation” means primary legislation, secondary legislation or amendments to primary legislation’. Amendment 8, page 1, line 16, leave out ‘draft’. Amendment 14, title, line 1, leave out ‘preparing draft legislation for publication’ and insert ‘presenting legislation’.

Helen Goodman: I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on this Bill and to the amendments standing in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty). The long list of amendments that we have tabled demonstrates that this is an extremely badly drafted piece of legislation. As I am sure Government Members know, Her Majesty’s Opposition oppose the Bill. It is ill-conceived, badly drafted and full of technical problems, and we do not accept its underlying principles. For a start, it does not make sense to look at draft legislation only. Most Bills do not appear in draft at all, so this would catch only a tiny number of the Bills that the House considers.

Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): The hon. Lady and her hon. Friend tabled 14 amendments and one new clause, only four of which have been selected for debate. Does that not suggest that her amendments and new clause were badly drafted as well?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman has been here long enough to know that we do not discuss the selection of amendments.

Helen Goodman: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I would like to point out some of the problems with what has been suggested by the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin), whose Bill this is. Every piece of legislation has a territorial extent clause at its end. Let us consider the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill, which is currently in Committee. The hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) has been chairing some of its sittings, so he knows what I am talking about. Clause 117 states that the Bill, as a whole, applies to England and Wales, and then explains which clauses apply more widely. There is no lack of clarity about the legal status of Bills before the House. Clearly, the hon. Lady’s underlying concern is that people are taking views on legislation that affects parts of the United Kingdom beyond those in which their 651 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 652

[Helen Goodman] Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): So in reality these amendments are not really important in the hon. constituencies are located. If that is her concern, she Lady’s estimation; she is simply intent on wrecking this should have presented a Bill making that case. However, Bill by any means possible. That is the reality, is it not? she has presented a different and flawed Bill. Helen Goodman: I am not intent on wrecking the Bill; Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend I am intent on opposing it, which is not quite the same agree that the Bill undermines the basic principle that thing. all Members are equal? Helen Goodman: Of course, my hon. Friend is absolutely Mr Leigh: Perhaps I used the wrong words. What the correct. hon. Lady is determined to do is stop this Bill making any further progress. That is the reality and she might as Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): The well be honest about it. hon. Lady will be aware that the procedure for Scottish Bills, as set out in Standing Order 97, requires the Helen Goodman rose— Speaker to issue a certificate stating that a measure is predominantly Scottish, after which it can go to the Grand Committee. It would be possible to do the same Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Lady is being for England. Surely it would be worth printing a complex tempted all the time. She must not give in to that Bill in draft—so that it can be published and people can temptation. Let us stick to the amendments. look at it—because, if there were territorial issues on the margins, it would provide an opportunity to consider Helen Goodman: Let me turn to the parts of the Bill them fully before the Speaker issued his certificate. Is that relate to the financial implications, which we also the suggestion of my hon. Friend the Member for West looked at in— Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) not a valuable addition to how we have dealt with such matter traditionally? Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Lady must not make a Second Reading speech. Let us deal with the Helen Goodman: As the hon. Gentleman says, amendments that are before us. arrangements are in place for legislation that takes effect predominantly in Scotland. However, the Government seem to be rushing legislation through so fast that it is Helen Goodman: One of the problems with looking at quite possible that the Speaker and his offices might not draft legislation rather than legislation in its final form have time to take all these complex matters into account. is that it is not possible at that stage to say what the That is a problem with the way this Government are financial implications across the United Kingdom might ramming through legislation on the NHS and, if I be. The Government would be forced not simply to might say so, this Legal Aid— identify the territorial extent of a Bill, as they do currently, but to look at the differential impact of Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We clauses that apply across the United Kingdom. For are meant to be discussing the amendments, but we are example, some legislation could be applicable throughout getting drawn elsewhere by certain Members. I am sure the UK but have a greater effect in some places than in that, with the hon. Lady’s experience, we can stick to others. Let us take social security as an example. If the amendments. unemployment is higher in Wales than in England and changes are made to the rate of jobseeker’s allowance, Helen Goodman: I stand corrected. I am sorry, I was the impact in Wales will obviously be different from the seduced by the hon. Member for North East Hertfordshire impact in England. I am sure that that is not what the (Oliver Heald). hon. Lady intends. Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ Co-op): On the issues raised by the amendment, my Oliver Heald: But social security is a UK-wide hon. Friend said a minute ago that she suspected that competence. It is nothing to do with just England, the real motivation behind the Bill was not just to Wales or Scotland; it applies all over the country. specify whether a Bill applied to England, Scotland or Northern Ireland only, but to lead to a situation where Helen Goodman: The hon. Gentleman makes my certain MPs could not vote on those Bills. If she has any exact point, but unfortunately that is not the way the doubt about that, the BBC reported yesterday that the Bill is drafted. That is one of its faults. hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) “hoped that this would allow it to become accepted practice that Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs would not vote on England-only bills.” That is a very interesting point, but what exactly does it have to do with the amendments? If that is what she really wants, would it not be better to have a Bill to that effect for us to discuss and debate, rather than one that tries to introduce such a measure Helen Goodman: What I am trying to do is demonstrate through the back door? that the Bill is not well drafted, and the amendments that we have tabled do just that. I fear that the object of Helen Goodman: That is exactly right. This is a this Bill is really a political object—that what the hon. campaigning Bill; it is not a serious Bill. The hon. Lady Member for West Worcestershire is doing is disingenuous cannot possibly expect the House to support this ill- and that her concerns are different from those that she conceived Bill, which would not even do what she wants. has set out. 653 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 654

9.45 am So it is possible for a Bill that is predominantly about Amendment 6 states that Scotland but has some implications for England and Wales to be dealt with under the Scottish procedure. “‘legislation’ means primary legislation, secondary legislation or amendments to primary legislation”. My hon. Friend is proposing that draft legislation would The hon. Lady must surely be aware that another contain a certificate from the Secretary of State explaining problem with the Bill is that she has not provided the territorial extent of its legal and financial effects on proper definitions, which makes it difficult to understand the various parts of the UK. That would be useful in precisely how it would operate. On amendment 14, cases that were on the margin. again, the hon. Lady is talking about something that does not exist. For example, she has made great play of Helen Goodman: But cannot the hon. Gentleman see the Barnett formula, but she must know that the Finance that the territorial extent is already in a Bill, and that Bill is not presented in draft. As far as the Finance Bill the financial implications are set out in the impact is concerned, we vote on some of the money resolutions assessment that is published alongside it? on the afternoon that the Budget is presented. It is not possible to do what she is suggesting on what is surely Oliver Heald: The mistake in the hon. Lady’s amendments one of the measures that she is most concerned about. is that they would not give the Speaker any opportunity It is quite clear that the intention behind the Bill is to present his certificate. She is proposing that the essentially a political intention, to do with an internal Secretary of State’s explanation would be provided dispute within the Government parties, and Her Majesty’s when the legislation was presented, rather than when it Opposition have no wish to intrude on private grief. was first printed, which would give the Speaker no time to do his work. These are therefore wrecking amendments. Mr Leigh: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. These amendments are really technical amendments, to Helen Goodman: The issue is the speed with which insert “presenting” rather than “publishing”, but the this Government are putting through legislation, and hon. Lady is very much turning this into a Second their failure to leave adequate time between First and Reading debate. She is not speaking to her own Second Readings, and between Second Reading and the amendments. Committee stage. If they were to give Bills adequate time, that would give the Speaker the time for which the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): That is for hon. Gentleman calls. the Chair to decide, as the hon. Gentleman well knows. I would point out that I am allowing a little bit of Oliver Heald: I completely disagree. The hon. Lady latitude and, in fairness, the hon. Lady has been brought would give the Speaker no time at all. Under Standing back to the point, to which, in general, she is sticking at Order No. 97, the Speaker has the time between the Bill the moment. I will decide from the Chair how far we go. first being printed and its presentation in which to Helen Goodman: I do not wish to delay the House decide whether or not to provide his certificate. Her any further on these technical amendments. I think I proposals would provide no such time. The Bill would have made my point perfectly clear. I do not intend to simply be presented; the helpful information from the push the amendments to a vote, but I hope that I have Secretary of State would not be given to the Speaker demonstrated a small number of the problems with this before that point. Bill. Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): Oliver Heald: Let me start by saying that my hon. The hon. Gentleman is flipping between the Speaker Friend the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett and the Secretary of State. Under the Scottish procedure, Baldwin) has done the House a service by introducing it is the Speaker who provides the certificate, but the Bill the Bill. It is a modest measure, but it provides something talks about the Secretary of State doing so. These are useful for the House, if the commission proposed by the two separate procedures. Minister, which I also welcome, decides that we need a procedure for England similar to Standing Order No. 97, Oliver Heald: The hon. Gentleman ought to think in which sets out the Scottish procedure. That Standing terms of the partnership that my hon. Friend’s Bill Order says that when a piece of legislation is first would create. She is proposing that the Minister would printed, the Speaker can issue a certificate saying that it help the Speaker. Is not that a good thing? The Secretary is a Scottish Bill. In those circumstances it is dealt with of State would provide the Speaker with a statement by the Scottish Grand Committee, which means that setting out the territorial, legal and financial effects of Scottish Members decide what happens in Scotland. I the Bill. It would give him time and provide a draft Bill personally have always felt, as has my party, that England process for complicated cases in which there were issues should have a similar opportunity, and the details of on the margin. It would provide a helpful extra arrow to how that might be achieved have been discussed and the bow. It is a good thing and I certainly support it. argued over for many years. The amendments would damage that process, however, What my hon. Friend is suggesting will help in the because there would be no draft Bill, and no time difficult process of deciding whether a Bill is predominantly between a Bill’s first printing and its presentation for Scottish or, in this case, English. The difficulty that the these matters to be considered, because the rule would Speaker has always had to contend with is that, under apply only when it was presented. These are wrecking Standing Order No. 97(1)(a), he can provide a certificate, amendments, because they endanger the spirit of and that co-operation that my hon. Friend is trying to engender “it shall not be withheld by reason only that the bill— between the Government and the Speaker in deciding makes minor consequential amendments of enactments which whether a measure should be dealt with under an English extend to England and Wales”. procedure. I therefore oppose them. 655 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 656

Mark Lazarowicz: This is a rather odd discussion, England really feel strongly about this, I would argue given that there is a certain lack of transparency about again that the answer involves another measure, rather what is really happening today. The hon. Member for than creating two kinds of Member in this House. West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) has already suggested on the BBC that this is really about MPs from Helen Goodman: Does my hon. Friend agree that outside England not being able to vote on matters that another technical defect—I hope the amendments made are said to be English-only. We also know that the this clear, but perhaps they did not—is that the hon. Government have proposed establishing a commission Lady has not done with her own Bill what she is on the so-called West Lothian question. No doubt, at suggesting that Ministers should do with every Bill? the end of the day, having listened to all the arguments, There is no explanation of how her Bill would apply in the hon. Lady will solemnly announce that she has been each of the jurisdictions, or of what financial burdens it persuaded to withdraw her Bill and support the would create. She cannot do that for this tiny Bill, yet Government’s commission. I therefore feel that the she intends to impose a massive bureaucratic burden, debate has a somewhat unreal nature, as we should be which is something that I thought the Government were debating the real concerns that Members from England opposed to. might have about the way in which the business of the House is conducted. We have the Bill before us today, however, and I want to say something about the generality Mark Lazarowicz: My hon. Friend makes a good of the legislation and how one of the amendments point. I have sympathy with the hon. Member for West would make it better. The Opposition’s duty must be to Worcestershire, given the difficulties involved in introducing improve a Bill, especially when we think that it is a a private Member’s Bill; I introduced three over the bad one. years, having been lucky enough to come up in the draw. We are obviously in a different position from Governments in the level of support available and the amount of Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): The hon. information that we can put before the House. I do not Gentleman referred to the “so-called” West Lothian want to criticise her too much, but it would have been question. Does he not think that there is a real problem helpful if she had provided a background paper to with the unfairness of Scottish Members of Parliament support the Bill, rather than simply relying on the being able to vote on matters that affect my constituents material supplied by the House of Commons Library. I but do not affect their own? apologise if she did produce such a paper and I have not seen it. Mark Lazarowicz: There is certainly an issue, but whether it is as broad as the hon. Gentleman suggests is In regard to amendment 6, there are a number of another question. Whether the entire constitutional important issues about how the Bill would work. A nature of the House should be changed as a result of it great many pieces of legislation that pass through the is also a matter for debate. If there is a matter to be House simply cannot be categorised as English-only, addressed, the only way to solve it, in my view, is to set Scottish-only, Welsh-only or Northern Irish-only Bills. up an English Parliament or assemblies in all the regions A large number of Bills overlap in various ways. Most of England. This Bill is more damaging than its supporters Bills on transport affect transport in England but are realise. Under the guise of simply providing for certificates likely to have knock-on effects on other parts of the stating which parts of the UK will be affected by a Bill, UK. We debated the Health and Social Care Bill this it is trying to achieve by the back door the outcome that week and although it primarily covers England and the hon. Gentleman supports. That is not the right way Wales, the provisions on abortion would have applied to in which to debate this issue. the United Kingdom. Every measure that has spending implications will have consequential effects on every part of the UK because of the Barnett formula. Oliver Heald: The hon. Gentleman has mentioned the West Lothian question. Can it be right that a Scottish Member can vote on English matters when an 10 am English Member has no such reciprocal right? Can he answer that question? Pete Wishart: The hon. Gentleman knows that I do not vote on English-only legislation. It is relatively Mark Lazarowicz: I must stay in order while answering straightforward: we examine a Bill, assess it for the that question, Mr Deputy Speaker. I referred to the Scottish interest—no one is more keen than I on the Scottish “so-called” West Lothian question because it is not interest—and if it predominantly and overwhelmingly simply about West Lothian; it applies also to west concerns England, we do not vote on it. Belfast, west Cardiff and even west London, in that certain matters relating to Greater London have been Mark Lazarowicz: I do not want to go over old devolved to the London assembly. I accept that the hon. intra-Scottish debates, but I recollect the hon. Gentleman Gentleman is asking a reasonable question, but the Bill and some of his colleagues voting on a Thames tunnel does not provide an appropriate way of dealing with it. Bill. Its connection to Scotland seemed remote. However, The Bill, rather than creating constitutional symmetry let us leave that aside. I do not know whether he that would apply beautifully to all parts of the UK, participated in the Olympics Bill— would seriously affect the way in which the House operates and the ability of all Members to participate in Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We debates. This question deserves an answer. I represent a are drifting once again. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman Scottish constituency, and I am interested in how these will not be tempted further and will stick to the issues apply to the UK as a whole, but if Members in amendments. 657 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 658

Mark Lazarowicz: I confess that I was tempted to Government had a UK majority in the House that reply.I shall restrain my responses, even if the interventions depended on votes outside England, Bills that applied are off the point. “only to England”, on which Members outside England could not vote, would need to be supported by the Pete Wishart: We vote on issues that have a Scottish Opposition. The Government would therefore not be interest, and so should the hon. Gentleman, but there the Government for large parts of the legislative programme. are many Bills in the current Session alone on which Opposition spokespeople would be the de facto Ministers there has been no Scottish National party vote: the for Education, Health and so on for England, and the Academies Bill, the Education Bill, the Health and real UK Ministers could not perform their roles because Social Care Bill, and the Legal Aid, Sentencing and they would effectively not command a majority in the Punishment of Offenders Bill. If there is no predominant House. That would move us towards a position whereby Scottish interest, we do not vote on it. there were two Governments in the House: a UK Government and a second Government formed by the Mark Lazarowicz: There may have been no SNP vote shadow Front Bench for those “English-only” matters on the Health and Social Care Bill, but the abortion where there was no majority for that Government. We counselling measures would have applied to Scotland. would reach that position if we followed the route of The hon. Gentleman is not being consistent. not allowing Members of Parliament outside England to vote on specific matters. Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): As a Welsh Conservative My position is clear. If there is genuine concern Member, I feel that the Bill gives us an important, among people in England—I accept that there may well legitimate opportunity to ask ourselves whether we can be—it should be addressed through proper devolution, contribute to a debate when there are consequences, to and perhaps a proper English Parliament, not by trying consider those consequences and to decide whether we to tinker with arrangements in this House in such a way are imposing on English affairs or taking part in a as to undermine its working. discussion that will also affect Wales. Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): The hon. Mark Lazarowicz: That comment may support my Gentleman was a strong advocate of Scottish devolution position. Let us take the argument to the next stage: if in the 1990s. One of the arguments of the pro-devolutionists the hon. Gentleman was asked not to vote on a Bill that was that, when there was a UK majority in the House had financial consequences, it would put him in a but Scotland voted another way, there was a democratic difficult position with his constituents if he chose to deficit. If that was correct for Scotland, why does the ignore those implications. same not apply to England? It is not simply that many Bills are more complex than they first seem in their implications for the UK as Mark Lazarowicz: If I were to try to answer that a whole; I am also concerned about the way in which question, I would go beyond the amendment. I might the measure would fundamentally change the workings be able to address that point on Third Reading, if it is of the House. made again. I am concerned that the Bill might lead to the creation Oliver Heald: Does the hon. Gentleman realise that of two Governments in the House. It is liable to lead to we already have a procedure for certifying that a Bill is genuine disagreement, tension and political division Scottish— between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I do not want that to happen. I strongly support a Thomas Docherty: Through the Speaker. Scottish Parliament and devolution elsewhere in the UK, but I want us to remain together as one UK. That Oliver Heald: Yes. We did it for years. Those Bills is why there is a fundamental flaw in the concept of two created no real difficulty. My hon. Friend the Member classes of Member in the House. That was a preamble for West Worcestershire offers an additional opportunity to considering amendment 6, which would at least through the draft Bill process for any cases on the improve the position. margins. It is not a question of changing our procedures. Pete Wishart: May we please nail the notion of two We already have a procedure that deals with the matter classes of MP? There are two classes. All Whitehall for Scotland, so why not have one for England? Departments relate to Government Members on behalf of their constituents but only some relate to me and the Mark Lazarowicz: The hon. Gentleman knows that hon. Gentleman on behalf of our constituents. Other the procedure to which he refers does not in any sense matters are devolved to the Scottish Parliament and are imply that Members outside Scotland cannot vote on the responsibility of Scottish Ministers. We should be the final stages of measures. The Bill is very much the relaxed about two classes of MP and just get on with it. thin end of the wedge and would create two classes of Members of Parliament. That is my fundamental concern. Mark Lazarowicz: There are probably more than A Government could have a majority that depends 600 classes of MP, given that we all have different on votes in Scotland, Wales or northern England—people interests and concerns. However, the hon. Gentleman assume that that would be a Labour Government, but must accept that if a Government depended on a majority politics change, and what happens in 10, 20, 30 or from outside England and could not win votes on 40 years may not be what people expect from today’s English-only matters, they could not operate as a politics. After all, some 60 years ago, the Conservative Government for specific issues and we would eventually party had a majority of seats and votes in Scotland, so have two Governments in the House. It is the inevitable we must think of the long-term consequences. If a consequence of the measure. 659 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 660

Thomas Docherty: Does my hon. Friend agree that if yesterday’s announcement by the Deputy Prime Minister some Members believe that there are now two classes of about the West Lothian commission—to which I suspect MP, perhaps we should have two classes of pay and the Minister will wish to refer in his response—it might expenses so that we are not taking huge amounts of form part of the broader debate that we will have in that taxpayers’ cash? context. I realise that in speaking to the amendments tabled by me and by my hon. Friend the Member for Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. Those Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) I am somewhat points do not need to be answered. We must get back to cup-tied, if I may use football parlance, when it comes the amendments. to the realms on which I am permitted to touch, and I shall do my best not to be tempted to digress by Mark Lazarowicz: I am sure that all Members on Government Members. I know that we shall be able to both sides of the House work as hard as they can for engage in a slightly broader discussion on Third Reading. their constituents. As I have said, I think that the debate is worth having, I have tried not to be diverted too much from the and probably worth having on the Floor of the House amendments, although, understandably, there have been rather than at a Conservative party conference, where I a number of attempts to persuade me to deal with wider believe that it would have taken place in three weeks’ issues. Amendment 6 is at least an improvement on a time if the Deputy Prime Minister had not made his bad provision, which not only implies that there will announcement about the West Lothian commission effectively be two Governments and two classes of MP, yesterday. but does not make clear whether it applies only to I am concerned about two aspects of the Bill, which primary legislation or, in addition, to secondary legislation, all four amendments seek to address. The first is the amendments to primary legislation and, indeed, private issue of consultation. Members’ Bills. The amendment does at least try to make a bad Bill more consistent, and I hope that the Mr Nuttall: Where is consultation mentioned in any House will support it. In fact, I hope that the entire Bill of the amendments? is thrown out on Third Reading, or following its passage through the House of Lords. 10.15 am There is an important debate to be had on this issue. The amendments are intended to highlight some of the Thomas Docherty: If the hon. Gentleman had held difficulties raised by the Bill, but I feel that if we are to his proverbial horses for another 15 seconds, he might have a debate on law-making in relation to MPs with have heard the answer to that question. constituencies outside England when it comes to decisions Like many other Members who are present today, I that apply only in England, we should debate that issue am new to the House, but I understand that in previous in its generality. Let us have a proper debate on whether Parliaments there was a gap between the Government’s there should be some matters on which MPs outside publication of a draft Bill and their presentation of that England should not vote, rather than cloaking that Bill, and it is hugely regrettable that that does not issue in discussions about a certificate. Let us deal with happen now. I take the word of some of my more the real issue, rather than with what I consider to be a esteemed and knowledgeable colleagues who have served bogus issue and a diversion from the real concern that I in earlier Parliaments, but I gather from them that it accept is felt by some Members. was pretty much standard practice. There would be a period of—wait for it—consultation on the Government’s Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): I am draft proposal, involving Members, outside experts, pleased to learn that the hon. Member for Bishop and other interested parties. The Bill subsequently presented Auckland (Helen Goodman) does not propose to press by the Government might differ significantly from the her amendment. If I followed her argument correctly, draft version. I assume that the hon. Member for Bury amendments 8 and 14 would extend the effect of my Bill North (Mr Nuttall) is satisfied with that answer to his beyond what it was carefully drafted to do. I do not question, and that I can now move on. think that they are necessary, and I hope that we can The second issue that concerns me is the fact that a move swiftly on to the next stage of the Bill. Bill whose title remains the same may contain clauses that are very different from those on which the Government Thomas Docherty: It is always a pleasure to serve originally consulted, or which did not exist at that stage. with you in the Chair, Mr Deputy Speaker. I can think of no better example than the Scotland Bill, I approach the Bill with some interest, because I am a which is currently being dealt with in the other place. It member of the Procedure Committee. As the House is now a very different Bill from the one that existed will know, we are currently examining the sitting hours during the consultation phase, and contains a different of the House and, in particular, the way in which set of powers and clauses. I believe that, in such private Members’ Bills are dealt with on Fridays. A very circumstances, the draft stage of a Bill could be described small number of Members seem to have turned these as a false piece of advertising. A Secretary of State occasions into what the Committee has jokingly termed might, in good faith, publish a statement—I will not be “Chope Fridays”—and I note that the hon. Member for drawn into discussing why it would be the Secretary of Christchurch (Mr Chope) is in the Chamber today. It is State rather than the Speaker, as was the case with the therefore welcome that that monopoly appears to have Scottish procedure that was mentioned before, but I am been broken, and that a worthwhile debate is now led to believe that many Secretaries of State in the taking place. present Government do act in good faith: the Minister I wonder whether today’s debate would have been told me that that is the case, and I never have any reason better suited to a full day in Westminster Hall, given to doubt the Minister—to the effect that a Bill applied that there may be no Divisions on the Bill. Indeed, given only to England, without recognising the obvious knock-on 661 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 662 effects that it would have in Scotland. The hon. Member Let me give an example in relation to future police for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) listed all powers. As the House will know, the Metropolitan the Bills that he said did not apply— police have responsibility for counter-terrorism and the commissioner of the week will be responsible for that. It Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am is possible that we would have a police Bill that deals sure that the hon. Gentleman is going to speak to the largely, for example, with the merging of police forces in amendments, but he should not be drawn into areas on England and/or Wales, but that has a chunk that deals which discussion is not allowed. I intend to allow a little with counter-terrorism and the powers of the Metropolitan bit of latitude on Third Reading, and I would not want police as they affect Scotland and perhaps Northern the hon. Gentleman to use up his Third Reading speech Ireland. That might get added somewhere between the at this stage. consultation stage and the presentation stage. That is why the measure is flawed. Thomas Docherty: I assure you, Mr Deputy Speaker, that there is no danger of my using up my Third I would be grateful if the hon. Member for West Reading speech at this stage, but, if I heard you correctly Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) could answer one at the time, you allowed an exchange to take place about question, if she is not getting pastoral care from her the Bills listed by the hon. Member for Perth and North Front-Bench colleagues, who I think are giving her Perthshire—and there were some nods of agreement on some helpful advice. She talks about the Secretary of the opposite Benches—in whose passage the Scottish State providing statements. Will she clarify whether the National party and others had decided not to participate. measure would equally apply to private Member’s Bills Those parties, however, did decide to participate in and, if so, who would provide the statements on those? debates on Bills that Government Members—and, crucially, Would it be the hon. Lady in her current capacity, a Secretary of State—might consider not to apply to although I am sure that one day she will be a Secretary Scotland. The most obvious example was the tuition of State? Is the measure purely about Government Bills, fees legislation. I will not repeat the arguments contained or is it also about Bills that are dealt with on a Friday? in it, but when it was going through the House of Commons in, I believe, December, not only the SNP Harriett Baldwin: The measure is carefully worded to but the Welsh and Irish nationalists and the Ulster exclude any mention of private Member’s Bills, but, if Unionists took part in the debate. A Secretary of State the hon. Gentleman reads the comments of the Minister who may not know that that will happen when he or she in Committee, he will see there is no reason to believe publishes a draft Bill for consultation will surely, once that, for example, Standing Orders and private Member’s the presentation stage is reached, have a much clearer Bills could not be covered by this wording. idea of whether his or her statement was accurate, and whether Scottish Members should be allowed to participate. Thomas Docherty: That leads to another important point. I have huge sympathy with the arguments both Mark Lazarowicz: That is a very good example of ways and I will avoid getting drawn on another issue, how the presentation stage could cause confusion. It is but if that were not the position, the Government hard to see how the English tuition fees legislation could, like in the 1960s, put a lot of contentious would not have constituted England-only legislation legislation—Jenkins did this in particular—in private had the definition in this Bill been adopted. It would Member’s Bills that were effectively Government Bills. I surely have been outrageous if Members from Scotland, know that there is always a temptation with newish Wales and Northern Ireland had not been able to vote Members to give them nice, easy private Member’s on it. Bills. If we take, for example, a ten-minute rule Bill, we Thomas Docherty: Indeed. That is one of the two get a dummy Bill that does not have any clauses. It is most obvious examples in the current Parliament of the only at the presentation stage that there is some consultation. difference between the appearance of legislation in its That is why it is important, given, if I understand it draft form which has not yet been subjected to the correctly, that the hon. Lady, with the Minister’s support, consultation that is so critical and its appearance at the is saying that the Bill would equally apply— presentation stage, when it is recognised that Members from all parts of the United Kingdom should be able to Mark Lazarowicz: So one could have a situation vote on it. The other example is, as I say, the Scotland where, shall we say, a UK-wide Government were against Bill. One would assume, given the title of that Bill, that privatisation of the health service, but the majority of Conservative Members would have taken no part in English MPs were in favour and voted it through, and those proceedings, yet I am fairly certain that the hon. then a private Member’s Bill could be used to reverse Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) and I the decision of a majority of English MPs. That does had a lively exchange on railways powers, which is a not sound like a helpful or consistent way of managing matter entirely for Westminster. That is where the power parliamentary business. sits at the moment. The measure was about handing over a power. There is no better example of where there Thomas Docherty: I think, Mr Deputy Speaker, that would be huge confusion than debates about the handing you would call me to order if I were tempted down that over of powers. path. I certainly will not get drawn on that, but I do not Another example we have been dealing with in recent think that that is the case. The hon. Lady has made it weeks is police commissioners and the Police Reform clear that the provisions apply equally to private Member’s and Social Responsibility Bill. Again, one might at Bills and ten-minute rule Bills. I have sympathy with the draft stage say, “That is a matter for English and Welsh argument that it should apply to those, but if there is a Members because powers on policing are covered by reason why the procedure needs to take place at presentation that.” However, it is possible, for example, that some stage, it is that effectively we do not have a draft territorial powers might have been granted. consultation stage. 663 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 664

[Thomas Docherty] a debate about the West Lothian question and how the House operates in a devolved situation, and she has To give an example, I have a Bill scheduled for done the House a service by permitting us to have a January and I know that the hon. Member for Christchurch debate in this forum. I am afraid that the Government (Mr Chope) and I will debate it on 20 January. It went remain opposed to the Bill overall. I will say a bit more through the ten-minute rule Bill procedure. There was about that on Third Reading. not much consultation because it was a ten-minute rule Specifically talking about the amendments, I know Bill procedure; that was before the presentation stage. that the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen There certainly was not a draft Bill at any stage. That is Goodman) said that she was not going to press them, where the hon. Lady, as well intentioned as her Bill is, but they provide an opportunity to flesh out some of has left a loophole in her provisions. the flaws with the approach in the Bill, while keeping My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh North focused on the provisions. The hon. Member for and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz) was talking about the Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) put his Mersey tunnel. That is a good example. There are finger on a key point when he talked about the potential others about railway infrastructure projects. From the interference of the courts. My hon. Friend drafted the title of a Bill, one may believe initially that it affects the Bill with great care, and it addresses only draft legislation. whole UK, because it is about financial compensation. If it had also addressed legislation and the legislative However, by the time one gets to the guts of the Bill and process, it could have opened up proceedings in this it is presented, one finds that the reverse is true and that House and how we make legislation to interference by it is predominantly an English matter. For example, the courts, because if the process for legislation were set take the Bill that will, if it goes ahead, be required for down in statute, whether we complied with that process High Speed Rail 2. I imagine that we will have a Bill that would be a question to be settled in court. We do not will cover the section from London to Birmingham. At want that. the draft stage, it might be a predominantly UK matter, because of the financial elements, but by the time the 10.30 am Government bring it to the presentation stage, they will have added so much to it, understandably, that the My hon. Friend the Member for North East statement given at the start will be significantly out of Hertfordshire (Oliver Heald) referred to the Scottish date. That is why it is so important that the amendments procedure. That is addressed in Standing Orders so that that I and my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop it remains internal to this House. Arbitration on those Auckland have tabled and that the Speaker has selected— Standing Orders lies with the Chair, so the courts are amendments 3, 6, 8 and 14—try to tighten the Bill. not allowed to trespass on the rights of this House. Therefore, I think that the hon. Member for Dunfermline I know that, when the Minister replies he will make a and West Fife—I was almost tempted to call him my suggestion, and again I have sympathy for him. I am not hon. Friend because of his overly kind comments about sure whether it helps him when I say this, but I find him me, which I do not think will have done me any favours to be a very effective Minister who is on top of his brief, with Members of my party—would have been completely which helps when one’s boss is the Deputy Prime Minister, in order if he had started discussing the ability of the because someone should be. I am sure that the Minister courts to trespass on, and interfere in, the rights of this will have constructed a reasoned and thoughtful argument. House, because the amendments selected for debate He is very good at getting off his brief and still being widen the Bill’s scope to cover legislation, which would able to cope, which not every Minister can do. I suspect present the risk that I have outlined. That is why we that he will advance the argument about the interference would oppose the amendments—although I note that of the courts in the proceedings of the House. I suspect, the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland has said she will if I were to stray into certain territories about the power not call a Division. The amendments also illustrate why, of the courts versus this place or the other place, and although this Bill has been an excellent vehicle for discuss that, you, Mr Deputy Speaker, would rightly debate, it does not represent a solution to the justified pull me sharply back into line. concerns of hon. Friends. May I say to the Minister, because I am not sure that I will get the chance to respond to his arguments Mr Leigh: This is an extraordinarily narrow amendment afterwards, that I fear that the provisions are slightly to what is a tentative, but worthwhile, Bill. Therefore, 11th hour and I would be grateful if he spent a bit of on the point the Minister is making now, will he undertake time setting out in what ways he believes the courts to bring in real legislation once and for all to deal with would have the right to intervene significantly in this the West Lothian question, so that Scottish MPs do not area, because I am yet to understand what it is he feels vote on English business? would lead to that situation? I am conscious that the Minister will require a bit of time to respond to the Mr Harper: I was listening very carefully at the debate, and I hope that he will give way to us so we can beginning of the debate, and when my hon. Friend have that exchange. intervened on the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland, he referred to her amendments as technical amendments. The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark She concurred, but they are not technical amendments Harper): First, I think that it is worth saying that I agree at all as they would radically change the nature of the with colleagues on both sides of the House when they Bill, in that it would apply no longer only to draft say that the progress of the Bill so far has been a useful legislation, but to all legislation presented in the House. opportunity to have a debate. I thank my hon. Friend They are not technical amendments at all, therefore, as the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) they fundamentally reshape the nature of the Bill. I am for that because she has given us an opportunity to have not surprised that my hon. Friend, who has only had a 665 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 666 limited opportunity to study the Bill, said that they Thomas Docherty: The Minister is again proving my were merely technical amendments, but I am a little earlier point about how fleet of foot he is in staying in surprised that the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland bounds while also covering his brief very well. I take his concurred, because I would have expected her to be able word for it that previous Administrations may not have to see that they are significant and broad ranging. been as noble as his Government in that they often did not produce proposed legislation in draft form and Thomas Docherty: The Minister says a slew of legislation instead went straight to the presentation of a Bill. That would not be covered by the Bill as it stands. Will he does not strengthen the argument for making the explain to me which Bills he is talking about? presentation of Bill stage the point at which a statement must be published however, because a less scrupulous Mr Harper: The Bill would apply only to draft legislation. Government than one in which the Minister would be In the past, not much legislation was presented in draft willing to serve might seek to get round things by not form. Some technical and controversial measures were, having a draft consultation stage and instead going but many were not. That has been the case under all straight to presentation of the Bill. previous Administrations. The current Government have a good record, however, in that we publish an increasing amount of legislation in draft. My right hon. Friend the Mr Harper: I shall address that point later, but for Leader of the House is encouraging ministerial colleagues now let me say that when we publish legislation, we to continue that trend and, for example, the Deputy already publish territorial extent clauses. I have a couple Prime Minister and I published draft legislation in of examples to share with the House that demonstrate respect of a House of Lords Bill and draft clauses on why these amendments are unnecessary because we individual electoral registration that have been consulted already do what they suggest we should do, and inserting on by the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee. them into the Bill would open up the possibility of court interference in how this House operates. Mark Lazarowicz: At the risk of doing even more damage to the Minister’s political career, may I say that Oliver Heald: I imagine the commission will look at his arguments against the Opposition amendments are the experience in respect of Standing Order No. 97 and persuasive and correct and I am therefore glad that my the way it was used for Scottish business. These amendments hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen raise the issue of the timetable between a Bill being first Goodman) has suggested she will not call for a Division? printed and then presented, and the certification of the Given the scope of the issues addressed by the amendments, Speaker would be an issue if Standing Order No. 97 will he confirm that the commission the Government were being looked at for England. In that context, will will set up will not do a rush job, but will be comprehensive the Minister assure us that the current and former and take all the time it needs to look in detail at all the Clerks of the House, as well as the senior officials issues? As the Minister rightly points out, these are not present and, perhaps, those who working in the Speaker’s simple issues, and if there are going to be changes—I office, will have an opportunity to give some input into am not convinced about that—we must not have changes the commission on the procedural timetable and how it that do not stand the test of time. might work?

Mr Harper: While we are discussing these amendments Mr Harper: If my hon. Friend will permit me— on Report, I will limit my remarks, or else I think Mr Deputy Speaker will call me out of order. The issues are, indeed, complex. There is a limited range of solutions, Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. Once and they are well known, but we must make sure that we again we are being tempted to address matters that have thought through the consequences, particularly should properly be discussed on Third Reading, and I pertaining to how this House operates. That is why the know that the Minister does not want to do that. Government will set up a commission to look into these issues. Perhaps on Third Reading, Mr Deputy Speaker Mr Harper: You are always very quick to keep Members will allow me to say a little more about that, and allow in order, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I was about to resist Members to ask questions about the written ministerial the temptation offered by my hon. Friend and instead statement I tabled yesterday. ask him if he would permit me to come back to the point. I do not have to ask him now as Mr Deputy Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): The Speaker has instructed me not to address it now. We Minister refers to this being very complex. Why, therefore, touched on this point in the written statement I tabled did the Government not set up this commission a year yesterday, and I will flesh it out on Third Reading. ago? Will he apologise to the House for the fact that the Government did not set it up a year ago, and will he Returning to the points the hon. Member for confirm that the reason why it was not set up was Dunfermline and West Fife made on the amendments, because it was blocked by the Liberal Democrats? we will not support them because they widen the scope of the Bill significantly and are therefore not just technical Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. As in nature. It is helpful that the Opposition have tabled Mr Chope should know, we must keep our powder dry them, because they have demonstrated, as I started to on that point until Third Reading. I ask the Minister say, why this legislative approach is likely not to be the not to be tempted. solution to the West Lothian question—this was the point suggested by my hon. Friend the Member for Mr Harper: I am often tempted by my hon. Friend, Gainsborough (Mr Leigh). If the West Lothian question but I will resist that particular temptation, at least until is about how this House legislates, any solution will Third Reading. probably have to be carried out through Standing Orders 667 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 668

[Mr Harper] to each part of the United Kingdom. If Bills have an effect on finances and Barnett consequentials, those are so that this House remains in control of it rather than set out when legislation is put before the House. the courts being permitted to start interfering, which is So that Members have a better idea, let me give one the last thing we want. or two short examples. The Health and Social Care Bill Having dealt with the amendments as whole, let me had a fairly detailed territorial extent clause. The default turn now, briefly, to amendment 6, which defines legislation position was that the Bill extended to England and as both primary and secondary legislation. It is worth Wales, but certain parts of the Bill extended to England making the point that there is no need to include and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, some to secondary legislation because it is made by virtue of the England and Wales and Northern Ireland, and some to powers given to Ministers in primary legislation. England and Wales and Scotland. There was more detail in the explanatory notes, which set out which Mr Leigh: This is a very important point. If I understand parts of the Bill they were. For example, part 2 of the it rightly, the Minister seems to be saying that the West Bill abolished the Health Protection Agency, a body Lothian question cannot be dealt with by legislation with a UK-wide remit, so those clauses were UK-wide. because that would be subject to interference by the Others referred to special administration procedures courts, and that it should be dealt with by Standing that were UK-wide. The clause is legal and technical Orders. That is where we are going now, is it? The but describes in some detail how the Bill applies to each Minister is speaking on behalf of the Government on part of the United Kingdom. this incredibly important issue. Are we moving towards As the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire a process by which the Government will move a motion (Pete Wishart) said, the reason he and his colleagues are through the House to amend Standing Orders to deal able to consider legislation and make a decision about with the West Lothian question? Is that what he is which ones they chose to speak and vote on is that they saying? can look at the territorial extent clauses and make that judgment. Mr Harper: No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that it is a complex matter and I shall say a little 10.45 am more on Third Reading, when I am permitted, about the commission. I am simply saying that a statutory Pete Wishart: The Minister will obviously know that solution is unlikely to work because if a statutory there are legislative consent motions in the Scottish solution were to touch on the legislative process and Parliament that consider the Scottish aspects of what legislation, which is what Members are interested in, as are notionally English-only Bills and allow this House opposed to draft legislation, it would open up the to legislate on its behalf. proceedings of this House to the courts—this is exactly why my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire Mr Harper: The hon. Gentleman touches on another wisely kept the scope of her Bill to draft legislation. point: although this House has, through the devolution That is not something that Members want to do and if settlement, passed the power to legislate in certain areas we proposed to do that, I am sure that the Clerk of the to the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and the House would give evidence to the Committees of this Northern Ireland Assembly, it is still possible for the House to point out the great risks of that approach, as House to legislate in those areas. The House has said has happened before. My hon. Friend the Member for that it will do that with the consent of the Scottish Gainsborough is in danger of jumping forward, and I Parliament and Welsh Assembly, which is exactly what suspect we can have a little more debate on this matter happens. It is possible for this House to legislate in areas on Third Reading without my risking the danger of that are devolved if it goes through that consultative being ruled out of order. process and secures the agreement of the devolved legislatures. On amendment 6, as I was saying, secondary legislation can have only the same territorial extent as the powers Mark Lazarowicz: Does that not highlight the problem set out in primary legislation, so that aspect of the with the reverse situation highlighted in the Bill? There amendment is not really necessary. Amendments 8 and is no way in which MPs for England could express their 14 are fairly minor in detail so I do not propose to refer consent for Scottish MPs in this House voting on English- to them. only measures, unless we had some kind of English-only Overall, the amendments are not necessary. It is Parliament. That shows, does it not, how we cannot worth discussing one thing, however, because it is relevant have a situation in which MPs from outside England are to the amendments. The amendments widen the scope in some way barred from voting on matters that are said of the Bill to cover legislation and I want briefly to to affect England only. remind Members—this was touched on, briefly, by the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland, and I will not dwell Mr Harper: The hon. Gentleman is leaping into too long on individual Bills as you will rule me out of solution space, but he is right. I agreed with one thing order, Mr Deputy Speaker—that when Ministers publish he said in an exchange with my hon. Friend the Member legislation they already have accompanying provisions for Bury North (Mr Nuttall), when he referred to the on extent. We set out in the territorial extent clauses in so-called West Lothian question. That was helpful as the legislation which clauses and schedules apply to the West Lothian question is called that because it was which legal jurisdiction. There is also a territorial extent raised by the then Member for West Lothian, but we are section in the explanatory notes that accompany all really talking about how we deal with legislating for Bills that describes the extent provisions in more detail England in a country that has devolution. That is not in a more narrative form, explaining which parts apply very catchy, and if any Members can think of a more 669 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 670 catchy way of describing the West Lothian question in some way to be disbarred from taking part in discussions that encapsulates its nature in a way that will resonate and voting on such issues? What is the purpose behind with people, they could perhaps suggest it to me. her Bill? Let me give one more straightforward example of an extent clause. It was in a Bill for which I was responsible, Harriett Baldwin: I assure the hon. Gentleman that I which is now an Act of Parliament: the well-supported shall be going into great detail on that point. Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011. The Act applied for the most part throughout the Oliver Heald: I congratulate my hon. Friend on her United Kingdom, with a limited exception. Part of Bill. Does she agree that in the House, during the period schedule 3 extended only to Great Britain and one part when Scottish Bills were dealt with by the Scottish extended only to Northern Ireland as a result of the Grand Committee under Standing Order No. 97, nobody different electoral arrangements. It had a very short ever talked about two classes of MP? Why should that extent section but meant that Members were very clear happen with an English procedure? about where it had effect. I hope I have set out for the House why we do not Harriett Baldwin: My hon. Friend makes an erudite support the amendments. The hon. Member for Bishop point, and I shall no doubt refer to Standing Order Auckland has already said that she will not press them No. 97 in my remarks. to a vote, but this has been a helpful debate to flesh out I completely agree with the Minister that this matter some of the concerns about this approach. She has should be framed as an English question. Clearly, it is done the House a service through her amendments, as an unfinished piece of constitutional business that the has my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire devolution settlement has allowed a situation in which by allowing the House to debate these important matters. English matters increasingly come before the Chamber and are voted on by MPs from all parts of the United Helen Goodman: I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Kingdom. amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Pete Wishart: I, too, congratulate the hon. Lady on getting so far with this Bill, but does she have any Third Reading explanation why the sole Conservative MP from Scotland has voted on English-only legislation? The Academies 10.48 am Bill, the Education Bill and the Health and Social Care Bill have all been voted on by the one Conservative MP Harriett Baldwin: I beg to move, That the Bill be now from Scotland. Does she think that he is setting a good read the Third time. example? Let me start my remarks by reassuring Opposition Members about a number of things that are not in the Harriett Baldwin: I think the Under-Secretary of Bill and that—surprise, surprise—both the BBC and State for Scotland, my right hon. Friend the Member The Guardian occasionally misreport things. I want to for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David reassure everyone here that I am a whole-hearted supporter Mundell), sets an absolutely marvellous example in all of the Union. I have referred before in the Chamber to respects, as one would expect me to say. I am sure that the memory of my late, lamented grandmother, Flora the hon. Gentleman, who represents the Scottish McLean McLeod Morison, from the Isle of Skye, and I nationalists, will be delighted with the Scotland Bill that think that that will go a long way towards reassuring my right hon. Friend is helping to bring forward in this everybody what a strong supporter I am of the Union, Parliament; he is being very uncharitable to my right being a physical embodiment of it myself. hon. Friend. I also want to reassure everybody that I support the This is an urgent problem that needs to be resolved in trajectory that we have been on over the past 10 or this Parliament. To make my point, I need refer colleagues 15 years in terms of devolution. I think that all decisions, and Opposition Members back only as far the last as we are seeing with the Localism Bill, should be made general election when, as we know, no party got an at the lowest possible level in terms of the people whom overall majority in this Parliament and there were they affect. That brings democracy close to the people negotiations between not only the Conservative and who are affected by laws, so I am wholeheartedly in Liberal Democrat parties but between the Labour party favour of devolution. I also want to reassure Opposition and the Liberal Democrats. At that time, there was talk Members that there is nothing in my Bill that would of a rainbow coalition of parties that might come create two classes of MP. That has been a characteristic together at Westminster, and I remember the upsurge of of previous attempts by colleagues to resolve this question, resentment in the correspondence that I received as a but that situation is clearly not acceptable. We cannot representative of what I like to think of as the heart of have an answer that relies on two classes of MP at England about how completely undemocratic it would Westminster, and the Bill deliberately avoids anything be to have a situation in which English-only legislation along those lines. came through the House relying for support on a majority of MPs from other parts of the United Kingdom. Mark Lazarowicz: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for the constructive way in which she is presenting her Bill, Mark Lazarowicz: Is not this getting to the heart of but if she does not want to create two classes of MP, the issue, because the logic of what the hon. Lady is what is the purpose of certifying legislation in this way? saying is that if that situation had developed, some MPs What would happen if a Bill were stated to be English should not have been allowed to vote on England-only only? Why is she saying this, if she is not expecting MPs matters? This is not just about a certificate; she is going 671 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 672

[Mark Lazarowicz] predominantly voted for a Conservative Government, is it not the case that when Tony Blair was elected, the down the road of trying to bar MPs from outside majority in England did not vote for him, but we had to England voting on such issues. That is very divisive to put up with him? the whole nature of this House and the constitution. Harriett Baldwin: I will not digress down that particular Harriett Baldwin: I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention historical byway. to the wording in the Bill: there is nothing in it that Let me get back to the Bill, which does three simple would prevent him from continuing to vote on English things. matters, should he so choose. However, if a piece of legislation came forward and he could be confident, as a Mark Lazarowicz: I thank the hon. Lady for giving result of this Bill, that the measures in it would have no way such a lot—this is a very important Bill for us all. Is effect whatever on his constituents, he might feel comfortable her position really that if a Bill affects one part of the writing to his constituents and saying, “Having looked UK, it should not be supported if the majority of MPs closely at this piece of legislation, I feel comfortable from that part of the UK are not behind it? that I might abstain from voting on it.” Harriett Baldwin: My position is an English position. Thomas Docherty: The hon. Lady has mentioned the As a representative of an English constituency, I think upsurge of resentment in the correspondence that she that an increasingly large amount of the legislation that got about a system that might come into place. Does comes before the House affects England only and that if she understand the outrage in Scotland about the fact the House continues not to tackle this issue, it will that 83% of people did not vote for David Cameron to increasingly become an issue that our constituents find be Prime Minister, yet the Scots are now stuck with him? extremely distressing.

Harriett Baldwin: I am sure that colleagues on the Thomas Docherty: The hon. Lady is doing a superb Government side of the House are absolutely delighted job of not falling into the trap that some of her colleagues that my right hon. Friend the Member for Witney fall into of simply being anti-Scottish or very bad (Mr Cameron) is the Prime Minister. losers. Does she accept, however, that large chunks of legislation, such as the measures concerning the Olympics, Iain Stewart: I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend on affect only one region of England? Is she saying that her having proceeded this far with her Bill. Does she accept ultimate goal is that only MPs from the affected regions that if the Bill became law, we could introduce measures should be allowed to vote on such measures—I am that would protect England without barring any Member looking at the Minister, because I am pretty sure that a from voting on legislation? I refer to the idea put Bill went through recently that specifically affected his forward by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member region—or will it be a case of Worcestershire imposing for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) and others for a itself on London? double majority system in which Bills that applied only to one territorial part of the United Kingdom would Harriett Baldwin: I reassure the hon. Gentleman that require the support both of the whole House and of nothing is further from my intention than to revisit the Members from that territorial part in order to be passed. regional question, which was so resoundingly defeated by the voters of the north-east as a complete white Harriett Baldwin: My hon. Friend is absolutely correct; elephant. I am talking about England—I am sure that there has been a substantial body of work looking at the hon. Gentleman understands what we mean by exactly how to resolve this question without creating England—and I am talking about issues that increasingly the completely impossible situation of having two classes come before this Chamber that refer just to England. of MP. I want to thank colleagues, the Minister and those who worked so hard on the Bill in Committee for Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): An interesting allowing us to reach the stage in the debate where I can point is developing here. I wonder whether the hon. reiterate what the Bill does. It essentially does three Lady is considering not voting on the Government’s things. In developing those three things, it has drawn on Scotland Bill, in line with what she is saying, and the work of those much wiser, more experienced and whether the Government are looking to have the support more eminent than myself. I am a mere new Member of of a majority of Scottish Members for the Scotland Bill the House, so I was able to benefit from learning about before it receives Royal Assent. the recommendations that have come through a couple of sources. Let me start by reading from the Harriett Baldwin: The hon. Lady points out precisely recommendations of the Justice Committee in the previous why it is so important to resolve in this Parliament some Parliament. of those complex constitutional issues. There will be In 2009, the Justice Committee prepared a report others, I am sure, who will refer to the problems of the called, “Devolution: A Decade On.” In its conclusions other House and the fact that there is draft legislation and recommendations, it said: currently in this place about reforms to that House. “The question of whether England-only legislation can be There might be consequences for that piece of legislation more clearly demarcated from other legislation has to be resolved as well. if any scheme of English votes for English laws is to work.”

Oliver Heald: On the point that the hon. Member for Mr Leigh: I do not understand what the problem is. Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) just Why should there be any difficulty for the Government made about the people of Scotland not having in recreating our old Standing Orders to allow us to 673 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 674 demarcate legislation as English? We used to do it with and for South Thanet (Laura Sandys) and none other Scottish legislation; why can we not do it with English than our distinguished Leader of the House. They came legislation? It could be done in five minutes. up with recommendations for dealing with the democratic deficit on this constitutional issue. Harriett Baldwin: My hon. Friend makes a perfectly One suggestion was that Standing Orders might be valid point, but I will speak about some of the other used. Some of the examples given mentioned Standing recommendations of the Justice Committee, which are Order No. 97, which was formerly used to deal with relevant to some of the other clauses in my Bill: Scotland-only legislation. As I understand it, however, “Even if legislation could be more clearly distinguished, the some of the academic reaction was that it might put the current system of territorial financing in the UK post-devolution Speaker in a very awkward position, were he asked to means that the levels of public finance decided for England certify that a piece of legislation applied to England determine levels of resource allocation to Scotland and Wales. only. While we agree that the system could be changed in order to remove this effect, such a change would be a necessary prerequisite”. The Bill is designed to address that challenge for the I have taken a slightly different approach in this piece Speaker, because we would certainly not want to politicise of legislation, which is to spell out on the face of the the Chair. Goodness me, this is so far above my pay draft legislation what impact the Government think it grade that I feel I should not be trespassing on these might have on the Barnett formula and any successor areas at all, but the provision of more information in formula. That would allow hon. Members who represent draft legislation would make it easier for the Speaker to the Scottish National party to look at the legislation use his powers or to allow the House to agree changes and reassure themselves, for example if there were no recommended by the Procedure Committee in 1999— financial consequences, that they could have their hand I am sure the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West strengthened in some way in their practice—which was Fife will allude to that in a moment—to alter some of mentioned earlier by the hon. Member for Dunfermline the Standing Orders to allow certification of Bills as and West Fife (Thomas Docherty)—of not voting on applying to other parts of the UK. legislation that does not affect their constituents. Thomas Docherty: It is always comforting to hear Guto Bebb: On that important point, High Speed 2 that some Conservative MPs have the best interests of has been mentioned. Obviously that issue affects England, the Speaker at heart. Surely the role of the Speaker is to but the financial consequentials might be to the tune of be the impartial judge. I suggest that there is the possibility £2 billion, which would make me very keen to be of a Secretary of State having a vested interest in ruling involved. It would be of great help to a Welsh Conservative one way or the other whether or not all MPs should be MP, therefore, to have that information on the face of allowed to vote on a piece of legislation. That would be the draft legislation. most unsatisfactory, would it not?

Harriett Baldwin: I thank my hon. Friend for that Harriett Baldwin: That is why my Bill gives much Welsh perspective and that support for the principles of more ample time for pre-legislative scrutiny of the draft the Bill. legislation setting out these issues, and setting out very clearly whether there are any financial implications. I Mark Lazarowicz: Does not the issue of HS2 illustrate am sure that as the hon. Gentleman is a member of the how impractical and divisive this attempt to divide the Procedure Committee, he has looked at those 1999 House would be, even if only in terms of indicating recommendations. where a Bill applies? The legislation on HS2 may appear I shall now speak about the news that we got yesterday. to affect only England, with trains going to Manchester I take the opportunity to welcome very warmly the and Liverpool, but the trains, hopefully, will go north to announcement that the Minister made yesterday that he Scotland, and will also go to north Wales. In many is about to establish at long last a commission to areas it is not possible to make a simple division into examine the West Lothian question. Throughout these Scotland-only and English-only Bills. It would divide proceedings, the Minister has been exemplary in recognising the House and divide the way in which it operates. that the Government need to look at that issue. As we know, he is an extremely busy Minister, and he has had Harriett Baldwin: I am not saying, am I, that a lot of a number of other pieces of crucial legislation to get legislation will have those characteristics, but some legislation through. I have asked myself on occasions when the will, and there will be more and more of it as we devolve commission might be established. We got a little more more and more powers to other parts of the UK. So information in yesterday’s written ministerial statement, why not know about that when such legislation comes but if I may, I shall take the opportunity to ask the before the House? Indeed, as the hon. Gentleman points Minister some detailed questions about how he anticipates out with his example, there may well be knock-on the questions left unanswered by his statement might be consequences for other parts of the UK, in which case resolved. that would be very apparent to him. The statement referred to the commission being I was mentioning some of the eminent minds that established in the weeks following the return of Parliament have informed the Bill. I also drew heavily on a piece of in October. The Minister has also spoken about his work that was done by the Conservative party in opposition. intention to set up the commission by the end of 2011. My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Colleagues have heard that said many times. I think we Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) is now Secretary of State for can deduce that we will have an announcement of the Justice, but in those days he chaired the democracy commission between our return in October and taskforce. He prepared a committee that included my 31 December. First, will the Minister confirm that that hon. Friends the Members for Chichester (Mr Tyrie) is the correct understanding? 675 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 676

[Harriett Baldwin] Pete Wishart: While the hon. Lady is talking about membership of the commission, does she believe that it Secondly, what will be the commission’s instructions is absolutely imperative that that must include someone about its timetable for reporting? I acknowledge that with a working knowledge of the Parliaments and the Minister has been busy steering a lot of legislation Assemblies of the United Kingdom, so that they can through the House, but I am worried that it has taken advise about possible knock-on consequences? She until now to receive a written ministerial statement mentioned financial points, but there could be others, about the commission’s establishment. When the so it is imperative that someone on the commission has commission is established before the end of the year, full knowledge of the Parliaments, legislatures and what instructions will he give it about reporting back? Assemblies of the UK. Specifically, will it report before the end of the Session, so that any legislation required to put in place its Harriett Baldwin: The hon. Gentleman raises important recommendations may be included in the next Queen’s questions, and we will want to know who will serve on Speech? I do not think that we know when the next the commission. Queen’s Speech will be, but we have a hunch that it might be some time around May. If the commission recommends changes to procedure, will they be binding on us, or will we have the opportunity Mr Hollobone: I congratulate my hon. Friend on her to debate them? How will its recommendations fit in role in pushing the Government finally to produce the with the draft Bill on changes to the other place, because written ministerial statement. Our hon. Friend the Minister that could involve important consequences? When we is no doubt sympathetic to her aims and mine, but I have raised the West Lothian question over the past few suspect that our absent colleagues—the Liberal Democrats, months, I have been concerned that some ministerial who are not in the Chamber—are the ones who have replies have linked it to the proposed changes to membership delayed substantial progress on the issue. Were it not for of the other place. Whatever one’s view of those changes, the Bill, I doubt that we would have received the ministerial we all agree that they are unlikely to be made quickly. statement at all. During this Parliament, the resolution of the West Lothian question, to use today’s shorthand—or the English question—is more urgent than reform of the Harriett Baldwin: I would not want to make that sort other Chamber, so I would not want progress on this of statement. The Minister has been extremely busy, issue to be delayed due to the necessarily slow progress and I know that a commitment to set up a commission of legislation to reform the other place. to examine the West Lothian question was in the coalition programme for government. However, we will want to I reiterate that the Minister has been exceptionally hear from the Minister when the commission is likely to helpful and insightful, and while I welcome yesterday’s report. announcement about the commission’s establishment, the written ministerial statement contained a lot of Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): I congratulate unanswered questions. I therefore again ask the crucial my hon. Friend on piloting her Bill to this stage. Does question whether any legislation that might be required she share my disappointment that the commission will to enact the commission’s recommendations will be in not deal with financial matters? Given her excellent the next Queen’s Speech. We cannot delay dealing with knowledge in this area, will she hold discussions with this point for much longer. If the commission recommends the Government to find out more about the “various legislative changes, they need to be in the next Queen’s processes” led by Treasury Ministers that are described Speech, so that they can be tackled in the next parliamentary in the statement, because it is the financial disparities Session. As we have heard, these complex issues will that cause most concern to my constituents, because require time for consideration, but following the process, they observe that, over the past 25 years, there has been I would want any necessary changes to tackle the remaining a £200 billion subsidy to other parts of the United unanswered English constitutional issues to be in place Kingdom from this country? before the next general election. The Bill has already had an impact. Harriett Baldwin: My hon. Friend asks a sensible question. Her point explains precisely why my Bill Thomas Docherty: The hon. Lady makes a compelling would provide that any impact on the Barnett formula argument in support of her position, but she has not or any successor should be spelled out. We have heard addressed the position of Secretaries of State and Ministers. fine examples today that show that Opposition Members As part of the process that she wishes to put in place, will lose no opportunity to suggest ways in which English- does she think that Members of this House and the only legislation could affect their constituents, such as other place who are considered to be Scottish, Welsh or because it might have hidden, knock-on financial from Northern Ireland should not be allowed to serve implications of which they are not aware. I am sure that as Ministers in a Department or, if they are Ministers, the Minister will want to address my hon. Friend’s good to vote on their own Department’s legislation? question. It would be helpful to hear more information about Harriett Baldwin: I am sure that the commission will the commission’s terms of reference, because yesterday’s want to consider that important question. I have proposed statement was clear about those things that it will not a modest approach, so the hon. Gentleman is asking a cover. In addition, how will it take evidence? Will it sit question that is way above my pay grade. My Bill in public? Will it be a body to which everyone can contains a modest suggestion that is based on the volunteer to give evidence? Who will chair it, because accumulated wisdom of the democracy taskforce and there is a fairly small number of people who fit the those members of the Justice Committee at the time of narrow definition of those who should serve on it? its 2009 report. 677 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 678

I know that the Minister is aware of the controversy be saying that a measure should not really apply to a about which I have spoken, given his intention to address part of the UK if it does not have majority support in the matter through the commission, but even if he that part of the UK? What about the Budget, for cannot give us a complete answer today, we will all want example? Does that mean that the UK Budget would to hear from him that there is a sense of urgency about not apply in Scotland unless the majority of Scottish resolving the situation during this Parliament. I remind MPs decided it would, and would the same go in Wales colleagues that the Bill is the only vehicle available for and Northern Ireland? hon. Members who want this great constitutional issue to be addressed. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s Thomas Docherty: My hon. Friend makes an important replies to my questions but, for the time being, I commend point, and I suspect that Mr Fraser would like to have the Bill to the House. that debate. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire is a sensible man—on occasion he is a 11.19 am Dunfermline Athletic fan, and he played in a half-decent band, so he has occasional good judgment—but I disagree Thomas Docherty: I am grateful to have caught your with him and Mr Fraser, because Scottish Conservatives, eye on Third Reading, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I as such, now believe in full fiscal autonomy, it would commend the hon. Member for West Worcestershire appear. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh (Harriett Baldwin) on having her Bill reach this stage. I North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz) is absolutely right: suspect that if her colleagues in the Government had under that proposal, there would be separate Budgets expected it to get this far, they might have taken an from the Chancellor for those measures that apply to interest in publishing the commission paper slightly Scotland only, and those that apply to the rest of the earlier than yesterday afternoon, but as a mere Opposition United Kingdom. MP, I cannot comment on the exact machinations that led the Deputy Prime Minister suddenly—yesterday The hon. Member for West Worcestershire talked afternoon, on the eve of this debate—to publish his about her great desire, which I think is genuine, to have West Lothian commission paper, which we will return to. decisions made at the lowest level of government. I notice—I went out and checked—that in proceedings I am a sceptic, not about why the Bill was brought on the Scotland Bill, she voted not to devolve power forward, or about the motivation of the hon. Member over the railways to the Scottish Parliament; that did for West Worcestershire, but about the motivations of not quite seem to fit with her logic. I suspect that there many of her colleagues, who are, frankly, in my view, are several other cases where Conservatives claim to just really bad losers. Since the mid-1950s, the vote of believe in giving greater power to Scotland, but in what is currently called the Conservative party in Scotland proceedings on the Scotland Bill have voted against has collapsed. It is worth noting that if Mr Murdo doing that. I am sure that that was simply an oversight Fraser MSP gets his way, there genuinely will be no on her part, and not an inconsistency in approach. Scottish Conservative politicians in Scotland. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) Lots of Bills that pass through this House, or begin and I were just reminiscing, because we served our up the other end of the Corridor, appear on the face of parties, alongside Mr Fraser, in North Tayside, as it was it to be England-only, or England-and-Wales-only, but then called, in 2001. Murdo has been consistent in his have clauses inserted by the Government—or have Back views about an effectively autonomous Scottish Benchers on either side of the House, or our Front Conservative party. Benchers, attempt to insert a clause—that would apply to the whole United Kingdom. I shall give one simple The whole debate comes back to the fact that the example. The rules for election to the Scottish Parliament Conservatives could not win a raffle in Scotland. As a are set by this place. We determine the boundaries, and result of the way in which their policies have gone the age at which people can vote in those elections. That down, and because they opposed devolution in 1997—and is clearly a matter that affects only Scotland. I cannot probably right through until about 2007 or 2008—they possibly see how that would be anything other than a have lost the support of the Scottish people. Unfortunately matter for the Scottish people; I would be grateful if for the Conservative party, which claims to be staunchly hon. Members could point out a flaw in that thinking. Unionist, and a staunch defender of the United Kingdom However, as that is part of the Scotland Bill, I think that and its parliamentary system, it does not like the fact the argument of the hon. Member for West Worcestershire that one part of the United Kingdom consistently votes would still be that she, an English MP, would vote on against it. It is worth noting the work of the hon. the Scotland Bill, and on each part and clause of it, Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb)—I congratulate because the Bill would have been categorised by the him on it—in helping to rebuild the Welsh Conservative Secretary of State as a Bill that impacts on multiple party. [Interruption.] Sorry, there are two Welsh territories. I regret to tell the hon. Lady that that Conservative MPs here. As a Scottish MP, the concept inconsistency means that her Bill is not perfectly formed. of there being two Conservatives from a devolved Administration area is baffling. In fact, I think that there are eight now. Mr Leigh: The hon. Gentleman asked Members to intervene; I will, and I am prepared to concede that I Mark Lazarowicz: My hon. Friend is being unfair; at should not be allowed to vote on the Scottish Bill, or on least one of the hon. Gentlemen on the Conservative anything to do with Scotland, if he will concede never Benches has helped to revive two parties in Wales in his to vote on anything to do exclusively with England. political activities. On the point about the Scottish Conservative party, is not the interesting point about Thomas Docherty: I am sorry to disappoint the hon. the logic of the Bill of the hon. Member for West Gentleman, but I do not believe in that logic. I believe Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) that she appears to in the United Kingdom. I hear repeatedly from Government 679 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 680

[Thomas Docherty] Does the House believe that if someone who represented a Scottish constituency went to the other place they parties, “I believe in the United Kingdom”. Unlike the would be a Scottish Member of Parliament? Are they hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire, who is a Scottish because their title is Scottish? Is it because they proud separatist and supporter of independence, I believe once visited Gretna Green, which I think is the qualification that we are stronger together. Under our system, we are of some people who have served in the Scotland Office? elected to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. If Those issues need to be dealt with by the West Lothian the Government parties wish to create an English commission, in addition to the matters raised by the Parliament or Assembly—I am not a supporter of hon. Member for West Worcestershire. regional assemblies, and I welcome the decision of the The most obvious issue that we need to deal with people of north-east England overwhelmingly to reject concerns Ministers. Going back to the point made by a regional assembly—they should bring forward that the hon. Member for Aberconwy—and I am not too legislation. That is not what they told people at the familiar with the thinking of my Welsh Labour colleagues election. on this—as the result, I believe, of an oversight at the election, the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham Guto Bebb: I would be grateful if the hon. Gentleman (Mrs Gillan) did not stand for a Welsh constituency; she talked to his colleagues in the Welsh Labour party who represents an English constituency. The Prime Minister described the Secretary of State for Wales as a colonial has eight very able Welsh Conservative MPs from whom governor-general. Clearly, the Welsh Labour party’s to choose a Welsh Secretary—[Interruption]—and some commitment to the Union is not as strong as his. Liberal Democrat MPs as well. However, we have an England-based Secretary of State. Thomas Docherty: As you know, Mr Deputy Speaker, Guto Bebb: The thinking of the Labour party in I am studying for a history degree from the Open Wales seems to be that it is perfectly fine for Welsh university, and the course that I have just finished is Labour Members to be Ministers and make decisions about colonial medicine. I have to say to the hon. that affect England, but that it is not acceptable for the Member for Aberconwy that some of the policies for Prime Minister to appoint an English MP to serve in the health service that the Secretary of State for Wales Wales. It is that dual standard that annoys people. wishes to introduce very much remind me of colonial Ultimately, we have to deal with the issue, because the medicine in the 19th century. Perhaps that is what my threat to the Union will come not from Wales but from colleagues in the Welsh Labour party were referring to. disgruntled members of the electorate in England. That We have an imperfect system, and I do not think that is the issue that we must face. anybody believes that the system that we have created is the finished product. It was never intended, in the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am 1990s, to be the finished system. The hon. Member for sure that an occasional mention of the Bill would be West Worcestershire was frank enough to say that she helpful to everyone. does not necessarily provide answers to the problem; she has merely sought to pose questions today. Thomas Docherty: You are absolutely right, Mr Deputy It might be helpful to many Conservative Members if Speaker. An issue that has not quite been covered in the I explain that West Lothian is a part of Scotland just Third Reading of the Legislation (Territorial Extent) outside Edinburgh. If they had been here for the excellent Bill is the question of what is in the minds of members maiden speech of my hon. Friend the Member for of the Welsh Labour party. It is not for me to comment— Livingston (Graeme Morrice), they would have heard a that is one of the benefits of devolution—but it is valid good account of the large section of it that he represents. to ask what would happen if a Secretary of State signed I am conscious that many Conservative Members have off a Bill but effectively said, “This is my Bill; I am not never had the opportunity to come to Scotland; they going to vote for it.” In December, as the Liberal really should, if they get the chance, come up and see it. Democrats raced through the 17 different positions that We are hosting some of the Olympic games next year. they tried to adopt on tuition fees, at one point there was a suggestion that the Secretary of State for Business, On the West Lothian commission that is to be established, Innovation and Skills would not vote on his own legislation, will the Minister undertake that the commission will which would have been completely absurd. Under the also look at arrangements in the other place—an issue Bill—and this is an issue that the commission must that the hon. Member for West Worcestershire touched address—we must consider what would happen if, as we on? I would be fascinated to learn how the Government have seen in the past, a Secretary of State introduces intend to designate Scottish, Welsh or English peers. legislation in which they do not have any constituency The most obvious example is the Leader of the House interest within the four nations of the United Kingdom, of Lords, Lord Strathclyde; I am not particularly aware never mind the question of how we define England. that he has a Scottish connection of note. I must challenge the hon. Member for WestWorcestershire on what she said about understanding England. As hon. Pete Wishart: We have no absolutely no ambition to Members can tell from my accent, I did not have the repatriate the likes of Lord Foulkes and Lord Forsyth. privilege of a Scottish education. I was brought up in west Cumbria, and I can assure the hon. Lady that the Thomas Docherty: I suspect that we might provide people of west Cumbria do not believe that she understands the hon. Gentleman with a list of some of the peers their problems or what is best for them. I am pretty sure whom we would like to repatriate. I would not suggest that my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) for a second that any of my colleagues would be on that would suggest that the Conservative party does not have list. a Scooby about the issues in the north-east of England. 681 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 682

I am pretty sure, Mr Deputy Speaker—of course, you Thomas Docherty: If we are to have such a system—and are entirely impartial—that other constituencies in the there has been some discussion of Standing Order north of England would suggest that Conservatives do No. 97—that is indeed what happens. That is the point not understand them. Equally, I have heard Government that the hon. Member for Bedfordshire— Members suggest that the Labour party does not understand parts of their country. The notion that we have a single, Oliver Heald: My constituency is in Hertfordshire. homogenous England in all its pleasant greenness with a perfect political structure is wrong. Regrettably, that Thomas Docherty: I apologise. It just goes to show goes back to the argument about regional assemblies. the benefits of living in a United Kingdom; otherwise I In the past few days, we have dealt with infrastructure would not be learning that geography lesson. projects. My right hon. Friend the Member for East Under that rule, the Speaker makes the decision. You Ham (Stephen Timms) and others have discussed the would, Mr Deputy Speaker, pull me up if I followed the Olympics, and we have discussed Crossrail in the past. example of my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda The Crossrail Bill contained many provisions that related (Chris Bryant) and gave seven centuries’ worth of history purely to London and nearby railway lines, yet it underwent on the role of the Speaker and how it has changed—and, a contentious, long, laborious process. It took two indeed, the excellent role of the Chairman of Ways and years, I think, to introduce that Bill, with the support of Means and how it has changed in the past 700 years. Members from Worcestershire, Dunfermline, Berwick, The Speaker’s role is to be an impartial judge. To give a Edinburgh and other areas. That was the right thing to simple example, let us say for the sake of argument that do but, regrettably, under the Legislation (Territorial Mr Murdo Fraser becomes leader of this new party. If Extent) Bill—and I suspect that this will be something he wants a name for a party that supports the Conservatives that the commission will examine—such issues would at that level, that backs Tory policies but is not officially not be dealt with. If there is a proposal to bulldoze large Tory, I must counsel him that the title, “Liberal Democrats”, parts of London, the decision on whether that is right has already been taken, so he will have to think of or wrong should, under the logic of the argument that another one. If Mr Fraser’s new party were to win 27 of the hon. Lady and other hon. Members have sought to the 51 or 52 seats that there will be in Scotland at the generate, be made by London MPs. next general election, but thanks to the work of my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), we were to sweep to power at the Mark Lazarowicz: My recollection is that most members next general election, it might well be possible— of the Committee that considered the Crossrail Bill were from Scotland. I think that we were being punished Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am by the Whips for an earlier rebellion. The Crossrail sure the hon. Gentleman wants to come back to the Bill issue may have been a concern for London MPs, but the and mention that a little more. We are drifting all round Crossrail issue was important for the entire UK, and the country from Doncaster to the history of the Chairman not just because of the costs. People can fly to Heathrow of Ways and Means. I can assure him that the post is or take a train to King’s Cross, where they may wish to not 700 years old, but we do not want to get into a travel on to France: those issues were integral to the debate like that, do we? We want to stick to Third Crossrail proposals, and are very much an illustration Reading, as I know the hon. Gentleman is now going of why we cannot take measures that appear to be just to do. English, as they go much wider than people may accept. Thomas Docherty: If I had been able to finish the Thomas Docherty: My hon. Friend, as ever, makes a sentence, I was about to say— compelling argument. Indeed, as an ex-lawyer he does so much better than I ever could. Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman should not tempt me. I do not need to wait for the last It is all about interpretation. Many people in London sentence. I was listening to the previous 20 sentences, with strong feelings about the Crossrail Bill would have which also led me to believe that the hon. Gentleman said that it had nothing to do with Members from other had gone off the Bill. parts of the United Kingdom. It is, to some extent, in the eye of the beholder. Thomas Docherty: I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker, Turning to the suggestion of the hon. Member for for your kind words, as ever. West Worcestershire about the Secretary of State, she is Under the powers in the Bill, it is possible that one of a rational and reasonable individual and is a supporter my right hon. Friends, as Secretary of State for Education, of the Speaker, but it is possible that some of her might seek to exclude the 26 or 27 Scottish progressives colleagues are not so rational or have swivel eyes and or whatever they are called from legislation in order to are anti-Speaker. The measure is not designed to help get a majority. It is possible that the reverse might be the Speaker: it is about fixing the board for the game. true. There are Bills or parts of Bills that apply to Surely, it is in a Secretary of State’s interest, one way or Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales, where the current the other, to determine for the benefit of their own Government—not under the leadership of the Minister party or of the coalition whether or not MPs of other or his colleagues, but under some other Secretary or nations should be allowed to vote. State—might seek to use this Bill to exclude Members unfairly in order to get legislation through. That is why Mr Leigh: Let us concede that it is not the Secretary the idea that, under the Bill, the Secretary of State of State who should decide those things but the Speaker. should be the person who decides which pieces of Presumably the hon. Gentleman would accept that the legislation are English only, Welsh only or English and Speaker would make that determination. Welsh only is both ludicrous and loaded. 683 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 684

[Thomas Docherty] Thomas Docherty: I am grateful. I know that there is a Fixed-term Parliaments Bill somewhere, but I do not It is disappointing that the Bill does not seek to think it is excellent. I would be well out of line if I were answer the question how Select Committees or oral to be drawn down that road. questions will work. It is reasonable for Government Another issue that has not been dealt with is where Members to take a great interest in Scottish questions. the Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill would leave the We are always touched by the number of Conservatives Parliament Acts. If we do not solve the issue of the who table questions relating to Scotland, but the Bill Lords and how we define an English-only Lord, Bills does not seek to deal with the fact that English MPs are could be significantly delayed because they cannot scrutinising— command a majority in the other place, even though they do in this place. I will not get sucked into a debate Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. As hon. Members know, about House of Lords reform, as I would be out of the Bill is not about questions. It is about legislation, order, but if we allow the Bill to go forward without and we will stick to speaking about legislation on Third addressing the issue of the House of Lords, we could Reading. have a House of Lords that reflects the UK electoral results, but not the lower House. Ping-pong would Thomas Docherty: I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker. inevitably occur. I would be grateful if the Minister set Obviously, when at Question Time we are debating out how the commission will address that and whether proposed Government legislation, it will still be perfectly he believes that the Bill deals adequately with the issue. in order, as I understand it, for Members on both sides The final question that I shall bring to the attention of the House to challenge the Secretary of State about of the House in the hope that the Minister can provide that, even if it does not cover their territories. The same guidance is what will happen with respect to consultation is true of Select Committees, which do an excellent job with outside parties. Representations might be made by of examining legislation as it is going through. I have devolved Administrations that a future Bill impacts on the privilege of serving on the Environment, Food and them. If a Secretary of State picks a narrow definition Rural Affairs Committee, which is an interesting Committee and says, “No, this applies only to me,” but the three not only because of the policy matter, but because some First Ministers all say, “No, we can see a compelling of that applies to the whole United Kingdom and some case,” who would have the final say? Would it be the to devolved areas, such as Scotland. The lines are blurred. Secretary of State? Does the Minister agree that that We have been having a big debate about the future of issue needs to be worked through as part of the West fisheries policy and the common agricultural policy. Lothian question? That will require legislation in future. I know, for example, I am grateful for your patience, Mr Deputy Speaker, that some Members on both sides are in favour of and for your guidance, as ever. I shall now sit down, as I pulling out of the common fisheries policy. I will not be know the Minister has some thoughts to share as well. drawn into that argument, but the Select Committee will clearly consider the issue. Does that apply to Scotland, to England or to the United Kingdom as a whole? I do 11.48 am not see how the Bill, as well meaning as the hon. Oliver Heald: The hon. Member for Dunfermline and Member for West Worcestershire intended it to be, deals West Fife (Thomas Docherty) made an engaging speech, with how we can still scrutinise matters through Select but he did not let the facts get in the way of his Committees and put together reports that could be argument. I felt a bit sorry for Lord Strathclyde, because fairly damning, but not carry out similar scrutiny on the he lives in Scotland and is Scottish, so to be described as Floor of the House. having no connection with the country will have been a The Bill could have another effect which I am sure bitter blow. Equally, it was slightly unfair on the rest of was never intended. It is my understanding that if a us to be told that we knew nothing about Cumbria or major piece of legislation falls in this place, that is Scotland, given that some of us love walking in the regarded historically as a vote of no confidence in the lakes and visit Scotland regularly. But there we go! Government. There is a perfectly reasonable suggestion I was struck by something else that the hon. Gentleman to be made that as a result of this Bill, a health Bill, for said. He spoke as though the Conservative party invented example, which was a substantive piece of legislation the West Lothian question—as though it was a sort of and did not command the support of the membership Conservative plot. In truth, of course, the question was of the party in England, could be defeated. Would that posed by a Scottish Labour MP, the former Father of therefore automatically be seen as the trigger for a no the House, Tam Dalyell. He was the one who asked confidence motion? That has not been dealt with adequately whether it could be right for Scottish Members to vote in the Bill. I hope the Minister will give us some on English legislation given that English Members had guidance on his thinking and whether the West Lothian a right to do so on Scottish legislation. Following his question could tackle the issue. speeches during the debates on the Scotland Act 1998, Conservative Members, including Michael Ancram, my Mr Harper: Let me respond to that invitation. As the right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset hon. Gentleman knows, the excellent Fixed-term (Dr Fox), now the Secretary of State for Defence, and I Parliaments Bill, which despite the Opposition’s support came up with the policy of English votes for English for that in principle, they seem inadvertently to be laws to address the West Lothian question. Since then, opposing, sets out the procedures for no confidence the Conservative party has had a great deal of work motions and motions of confidence in the House, so my done on the question—the democracy taskforce has hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire has been mentioned—and has come to the conclusion that been spared the need to do that in her Bill. something could be done to address the problem. 685 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 686

The democracy taskforce looked at the Standing Mr Leigh: As usual, my hon. Friend gives a very Orders of the House. For many years, Standing Order erudite speech. In all the chaff that came from the No. 97 has been used for these purposes for Scottish mouth of the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West legislation. It is not right to suggest, as the hon. Member Fife (Thomas Docherty), however, there was a grain of for Dunfermline and West Fife did, that these Standing truth. I must put this to my hon. Friend, because he is Orders would always be used in a hostile, unco-operative one of our leading experts on the matter. If the current way. The fact is that we do have a book of Standing system works quite well and if, as we know, we can rely Orders, the House does operate by them and largely on the Speaker for his impartiality, need we add anything there is a consensual approach, through the usual channels, to the process? Need we add the Secretary of State? I that ensures that we can do our business. I do not think make that point because it is important that we debate therefore that he ought to be suspicious that, just because these matters seriously. we would introduce a new Standing Order, suddenly the history and traditions of the House would change and Oliver Heald: My hon. Friend has taken a great we would use the procedures to be hostile to each other. interest in the issue over many years and has great Over the years, each of the great parties has been in knowledge of constitutional matters. He makes a fair government and opposition, and were one party to start point, and I agree that the proposal may not be necessary. behaving as though the Standing Orders were a battleground It may be an added extra that introduces complexities in and try to “get” the other party, it would reap the a way that does not help as much as we think. However, whirlwind in due course. We rely on being able to do our that is one of the blessings of the commission, in that it business in a consensual way and the usual channels will be able to look at that point—speedily, I hope—and co-operate well, so I do not think that he should be so come to a conclusion. It is important that serving on the suspicious. commission are people who can bring experience and To deal with English legislation, we would simply knowledge on this topic. I hope that it will be possible need to add to Standing Order No. 97, in line 3, page 91 for the Clerk and the senior officials of the House to of our Standing Orders, the words “or England”, make submit evidence to the commission or to take part in its the necessary consequential amendment and set up an proceedings, so that expert knowledge is brought to English Grand Committee. bear on this important point. Finally, there has been a lot of talk about how if we Thomas Docherty: The hon. Gentleman makes a had English votes for English laws, there would be two compelling argument, but unfortunately that is not sorts of MPs. That is nonsense. When the Scotland what the Bill does; it makes the Secretary of State provisions were used, nobody ever said that there were responsible for determining the matter, not the Speaker. two classes of MP; indeed, one could argue that there are two classes of MP at the moment, in the sense that Oliver Heald: That brings me to my next point. The Scottish Members cannot deal with matters that affect Standing Order is not written in such a way as to their own back yard. The argument is nonsense. We are disadvantage one party or another or to be used in a all elected on the same basis and we have Standing hostile way. It is drafted, and has been in our Standing Orders to deal with matters. We have previously had a Orders for many years, in a way that has a bit of Scottish procedure; why can we not have an English one? common sense. It provides that if there are consequential amendments affecting England, Wales or Northern Ireland, 11.56 am the certificate can be withheld—but it does not have to be. The Speaker has some discretion. Equally, it is not Pete Wishart: Let me start by again congratulating compulsory, under this particular Standing Order for a the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Bill certified as entirely Scottish to be dealt with by the Baldwin) on progressing so far with her private Member’s Scottish Grand Committee—it is discretionary. If the Bill. She has almost single-handedly—or at least more usual channels discussed the matter and decided, “No, than anyone else—ensured that we will have a long-promised this ought to be dealt with by the whole House”, that investigation into the West Lothian question by a could happen. We are not as daft as the hon. Gentleman commission. thinks. We would not have Standing Orders so rigid that Unfortunately I missed the Bill’s Second Reading, they could not work and could be used as a tool of war. but I have spoken in most debates in this House on what We have sensible Standing Orders, we are sensible people is referred to as the West Lothian question. In fact, I when it comes to procedure, and I think that the House have debated it at length with the former Member for would be quite capable of dealing with this matter. West Lothian himself. Indeed, I heard what can only be I welcome the fact that the Minister is setting up his described as the curmudgeonly tones of Tam Dalyell on commission and I welcome the Bill presented by my the radio yesterday, with his usual doom and gloom hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett about how one could never answer the West Lothian Baldwin). It would give a little more room for manoeuvre question. I do not think that he sees much hope for the over controversial measures or measures on the margins Minister’s commission when we eventually see its work, of territoriality. With her measure in place, instead of a and that has been his view pretty consistently over the Bill simply being printed and the Speaker deciding past few years. I have a relatively neat and elegant whether to issue a certificate, there would be pre-legislative solution to the West Lothian question: let this Parliament scrutiny. The Bill would be produced; it would go do its business and let our Parliament do its business. through its pre-legislative scrutiny; and it would contain Let us come together in a new sense of equality and a statement by the Secretary of State on his view of the mutual self-respect. Let us redefine our partnership territoriality, the financial aspects and so on. That among the nations of the United Kingdom. In one fell would give us even more opportunity to ensure that our swoop we will have elegantly dealt with all the issues to Standing Orders are not used in a foolish way. do with the West Lothian question. 687 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 688

Mr Harper: Part of the reason I suggested that we Thomas Docherty: I think that the hon. Gentleman should think of different terms is that the hon. Gentleman must have misspoken, because he just said that he has been led down a cul-de-sac. The scenario that he would vote only on issues that affect Perth and North paints is of an independent Scotland. The Government, Perthshire. Does that mean that he would not vote on Government Members and many Members on the an issue that affected the Western Isles? Opposition Benches passionately oppose that, as we want to keep the United Kingdom together, but let us Pete Wishart: This is the kind of nonsense that we get say for the sake of argument that it came about. It from opponents of the West Lothian question. The might solve the West Lothian question, but it would not logic of the argument seems to be that the Scottish solve the issue, because it is not a Scottish issue; it is Parliament should not vote on issues affecting only the about how we govern England and the relationship Western Isles or the highlands of Scotland. In case he between all the devolved nations. This is just as much does not know, this is about legislatures, about responsibility about Welsh Members of Parliament and Members and about democratic accountability. We have a Scottish from Northern Ireland as it is about those from Scotland Parliament, thank goodness, and we have a Westminster or England. The nomenclature has led the hon. Gentleman Parliament down here. He takes the view that he should down a cul-de-sac. vote on English-only issues. I take the view that it is wrong for me to do so as they do not affect my constituents, Pete Wishart: I am grateful to the Minister for that. which is why I do not do so. All I can say is: thank goodness that will not be my problem at that point. We will most definitely have dealt Mr Harper: This is to do with language. When colleagues with the West Lothian question, because there will no refer to “England-only” measures, they are not really longer be a Member for West Lothian in this House talking about matters that affect only England; they are who has a say on English health and education. My talking about matters for which the responsibility has solution resolves that one, but I shall leave the Minister been devolved to one of the other legislatures. I think in the future—when we manage to secure Scottish that that answers the question; the hon. Member for independence—to try to resolve those other issues on Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) is forswearing his own. to vote on matters that have been devolved. As things stand, no Scottish National party Member votes on English-only legislation. We have not done so Pete Wishart: I thank the Minister for getting that since 1999, when the Scottish Parliament was established. absolutely right; I should always get him to answer my We are now the only party that does not vote on questions for me. English-only legislation, because for some bizarre reason the Scottish Conservatives have abandoned that policy. Thomas Docherty: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? When he was in opposition, the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) Pete Wishart: I want to make some progress, if I may, did not vote on English-only legislation, but the minute and I think that we have probably dealt with that the Conservatives got into government he started voting particular issue. on everything; in fact, I think he has voted on every The Scottish National party did not take an interest piece of legislation in this Session that might be certified in the Health and Social Care Bill that was debated here as English-only. So before the Conservatives go on and this week, although there were technical and consequential on about voting on English-only issues, they should measures in the Bill that were to do with Scotland. have a quiet word with their one and only Scottish Those measures, however, were dealt with by the Scottish Member, because I do not think that he is setting a Parliament. A legislative consent motion was passed in particularly good example. that Parliament that agreed to allow this House to Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ legislate in that way, so why any Scottish Member Co-op): Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will correct me, should need to vote on that Bill, I do not know. If but I recall that, during the coalition negotiations, there English Members want to destroy their health service was a suggestion that there might be an alternative through this part-privatisation, that is a matter for coalition including some Members from the Scottish them. I can only say thank goodness that we have an National party, and that his leader in the Westminster SNP Government in Scotland who will not embark on group said that they would start to vote on English-only that kind of nonsense and who will never adopt such a legislation. rubbishy part-privatisation approach to the health service there. The Health and Social Care Bill is a matter for Pete Wishart: The hon. Gentleman has a better memory English Members. That illustrates the beauty of Tam’s than I have, because I cannot recall any such thing question, posed all those years ago in all its rhetorical being said. I would find it absolutely staggering if we glory. Would I like English Members of Parliament were to take a view on those kinds of issues. The point is trying to impose their view in Scotland? Of course I that we are the only party in this House that does not would not. Scottish Members should therefore give vote on English-only legislation. Why do we not do so? English Members the same respect when it comes to I take what I thought was an uncontroversial view on English decisions, however faulty or ridiculous they this: if it does not affect my constituents, it is not a might be. If English Members want to do that to their matter for me as a Member of Parliament. Surely we health service, that is up to them. are here to represent our constituents. If a piece of legislation has nothing whatever to do with the good Thomas Docherty: This is a passionate and compelling people of Perth and North Perthshire, why should I speech; it is almost bringing tears to my eyes. However, take an interest in it? That is the way in which we should the hon. Gentleman voted on the Bill that introduced approach these issues when deciding this matter. tuition fees in England. As the Minister said, the Scottish 689 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 690

Parliament now has powers over such matters, so the However, there are problems and concerns for us in hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete the Bill. They mostly come down to certification of Wishart), by his own logic, should not have voted on what is Scottish-only business. Tuition fees is a very that Bill. Was it not political opportunism, rather than good example because it shows why we have to be some great principle, that led him to do so? careful. There must be a Scottish input into the commission, perhaps from someone who knows about the workings Pete Wishart: That is a very good point, and I am of the legislatures throughout the United Kingdom—for glad that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned it. I shall example, former Presiding Officers. There should be deal with tuition fees at greater length in a moment, good contacts with the Scottish Government, who could because they relate to my concerns about the Bill and alert the commission, or whoever examines the matter, the Minister’s proposed commission. If the hon. Member of genuine difficulties and consequences for Scotland. for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) will The Bill fails in that respect because it provides only for bear with me, I will come back to that point, and if he is Secretaries of State to advise the Speaker about certification unhappy with what I have to say, I will allow him to of the territorial impact of legislation. Perhaps an intervene on me again. amendment could be tabled in the other place that would allow the Secretary of State to consult his or her Because of our track record on this matter, we very opposite numbers in the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh much welcome the establishment of the commission. Assembly and the Northern Ireland Assembly to ensure This issue really needs to be resolved. Tam asked the that those legislatures are relaxed and happy about the question 33 years ago, and it is now time to address it. territorial certification of specific measures. We proposed something very similar to the hon. Lady’s proposal several years ago, when we suggested that Tuition fees sum up the difficulty for me, and for us Standing Order No. 97 should be extended to cover the all. Tuition fees are nominally English. Under the certification of certain Bills as English-only. At that certification that the Minister and the hon. Member for time, there was a Labour majority that had a lot to gain West Worcestershire have in mind, the Speaker would from Scottish Members voting on English-only legislation, almost certainly have said that the measure was English so our proposal was rejected. Now we have a Conservative only. Yet it was an absolute disaster for Scotland. It was Government who have most to gain from Scottish Members the worst possible type of legislation for us and we not voting and from pushing through the measure to try therefore voted on tuition fees—I think that all Scottish to resolve the issue. I do not care about the political Members did. I voted on it because the Barnett interests of the Labour and Conservative parties; I want consequentials were enormous. Scotland will lose a us to approach the matter with a sense of equality and fantastic amount of money if England goes ahead with decent fairness—I think that Government Members tuition fees. The measure also opened up a funding gap would treat us in the same way—and to do the right between Scottish and English universities. That would thing for Scotland, for England and for the other nations have been fine if we were independent—it would be our of the UK. I therefore support setting up the commission. business and up to us to get on with it. However, as a I would like to ask the Minister some questions about devolved nation, we do not have any other economic it, but, in principle, it is welcome. tools to help us deal with those sudden issues. We are left with our fixed budget. It is therefore right that, as During the course of the commission’s work, we will long as we are part of the Union, we express our again hear all the nonsense that I have heard for 10 years— concerns about what might be considered English-only all the red herrings and the reasons for not acting. We legislation. all accept that there is no elegant answer to the West If we reach a solution, I hope that there will be Lothian question while we are part of the Union. There consultation with the Scottish Government to find out will always be anomalies and further questions—that is whether there are huge issues for Scotland, which we the nature of trying to resolve a difficult conundrum have to tackle as long as we are part of the Union. I was when there are devolved legislatures and a sovereign grateful to the hon. Lady for saying that financial Parliament at Westminster. I have my answer—hon. aspects would be included in any future draft of such a Members have heard it—but as long as we are part of Bill. It is imperative that they are included. the Union, there will be anomalies. We will hear all the stuff about two classes of MPs, the sob story about I believe that the job of us Scottish Members is to Scottish Members not getting to be Ministers for devolved ensure that the Scottish interest is represented, and that matters such as health and education, and the suggestion nothing is done that would have a detrimental impact that English Members should not vote on Scottish-only on our constituents. That is why we all voted on the issues such as the Scotland Bill. Those are all red issue of tuition fees, and I think that we were right to do herrings and nonsense—simply obstacles put in the way so. However, there are other Bills that do not have the of dealing with the issue effectively. same impact on Scotland. We should leave them well alone, and I believe that we will continue to do so for as I concede that there are already two classes of Members long as we consider them at Westminster. of Parliament. I am a Scottish Member and a good section of what English Members do in the House is devolved to my colleagues in the Scottish Parliament. Thomas Docherty: The hon. Gentleman is advancing That immediately sets me apart from English Members. a relatively cogent argument. Does he agree that the For goodness’ sake, we should just be relaxed about it. Secretary of State is the wrong person to make the Let us accept that we are two classes. All we are doing is judgment specified in the Bill? simply trying to recalibrate the different types of classes by not allowing Scottish Members to vote on English-only Pete Wishart: I do not care who eventually makes the matters. We should simply accept that there are two decision. I am quite happy for it to be the Speaker. The classes of Members and get on with it. only issue that concerns me is the need for consultation 691 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 692

[Pete Wishart] Part of the problem lies not in Scotland, but in England. I have the advantage of being a Scot representing with the Scottish Government. They must be able to say an English constituency, and a fair number of constituents that they are comfortable and relaxed about the fact complain to me about the fact that certain matters that legislation applies only to England. The House affecting only England can be determined by Members must recognise instances in which legislation will have from Scotland. I am not suggesting that we have reached knock-on effects on the Scottish Parliament. The tuition a crisis point, but bit by bit the resentment is growing. If fees legislation in particular was disastrous for Scotland: we do nothing and let it lie unchecked, at some point in we had to deal with a number of unforeseen consequences the future we will find ourselves in very difficult because of issues in England. constitutional waters, and the Union will be threatened. I welcome what has happened, and I congratulate the Government on eventually doing something about this Mr Harper: My hon. Friend demonstrates something. problem. The hon. Lady has led them by the nose. I do It is sometimes said by those in the House that only not know whether it is the Liberal Democrats who have Conservative Members are concerned about the issue, been blocking such action, but they are just about the but the reason they are concerned is that our constituents worst offenders in this regard. Their number is massively are concerned. We do get a significant number of letters inflated in relation to their share of the vote in Scotland, about the matter. I do in relation to a range of issues, but they come down here and consistently vote on including tuition fees, and decisions that are made. If England-only issues. As well as having a quiet word we do not deal with the matter, we will have a problem. with their one Scottish Member about voting on England- My hon. Friend has made an important point. only issues, the Conservatives should have a quiet word with their coalition partners, because, as I have said, Iain Stewart: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for they are just about the worst offenders. making that point. It is important that we address these As we proceed, we should ensure that we consult and points when we are in relatively calm waters. There is involve people who deserve respect because they have not an impending crisis, so we can take some time to done the groundwork that was required for the consider the matter carefully.I welcome the announcement establishment of our Parliament and Assemblies in yesterday of the commission. I await with interest the Scotland. We are getting closer to Tam’s answer. I have answers to the pertinent questions that my hon. Friend presented my solution, and thankfully the Scottish people the Member for West Worcestershire asked about the see it as a solution as well. For the first time in three composition, remit and time scale of that commission. years, support for independence in Scotland is now in It is right that it should take its time and examine the majority. We are approaching the point at which the carefully the complex issues that it will deal with, but I Scottish people will have an opportunity to decide on sound a slight warning note: that should not be an the future of Scotland, and about whether we should excuse to kick the issue into the long grass and so far come to this place at all. I believe that we are about to into the future that it never reaches a conclusion. I experience one of the most incredible defining moment would like to see a specific timetable showing when the in Scottish history, when they say yes and the hon. commission will report and we can take matters forward Members for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark because, as I say, doing nothing will stoke up big problems. Lazarowicz), for Dunfermline and West Fife, for Rutherglen We have heard from several Labour Members their and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) and for Motherwell objections to the Bill and to other possible solutions to and Wishaw (Mr Roy) will no longer come down here to the West Lothian question, but we hear absolutely vote on English issues. I cannot wait for that day to nothing about what their solution would be. come. Thomas Docherty: I am very clear. I hope that what 12.12 pm comes out of this is some proposal to put to the people. It is bizarre that the one proposal that has not been Iain Stewart: It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. mentioned is to ask the people what they think. We Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), should put in a referendum a proposal to them about and I accept much of what he said. I do not often agree how to resolve the issue. It has to be through some with the Scottish National party, but I agree with him assembly, so that we do not deal through the back door that his party has a neat solution at least to the Scottish with all the issues that I and the hon. Member for West dimension of the West Lothian question, namely that Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) have been raising Scotland should become separate from the rest of the with the Minister. United Kingdom. I will not be tempted into a debate on the merits or Iain Stewart: I am rather puzzled by the hon. Gentleman’s otherwise of separation; suffice it to say that I completely comments. I am not clear whether he wants a separate oppose it. I am a proud Unionist, and I will do all that I referendum from an independence referendum or an can to prevent it from happening. However, the Union English Parliament. Is that what he is suggesting? is under threat. That is why the Bill is so important, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for West Thomas Docherty: I am suggesting that there be a Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) on presenting it. The constitutional convention, as there was in Scotland, at Scottish nationalists secured an overall majority in the the end of which a proposal is put to the people of election in May, giving the lie somewhat to Labour’s England about the legislative system that they want. assertion in the devolution debate that devolution had killed nationalism stone dead. In fact, nationalism is in Iain Stewart: It is an intriguing suggestion and I rude health, and if we are not careful, we will be going invite the hon. Gentleman to submit that idea to the down the road of separation. commission. I am not sure whether he speaks for the 693 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 694

Labour Front-Bench team on that proposal. Perhaps a The Bill addresses certifying whether or not a Bill promotion is in order, but my key point is that doing applies to England only. If that were all that this issue nothing is not an option and we have to address the involved, it might not be so objectionable. However, the issue. I agree that we should not create a separate class issue is not just certification; it is also voting on Bills. of Member in the House and start banning certain Do the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) and Members from debating or voting on specific measures. his like-minded colleagues who contributed to the debate Whether a self-denying ordinance could apply is for really think that simply certifying a Bill as only applying individual Members to decide, but there is a workable to England but then having MPs from outside England solution, which I alluded to earlier. I call it a double voting on it would satisfy their constituents who have majority, where we do not exclude any Member from raised this issue? Their objection is not just to certification; voting on a particular measure, but where, if a measure it is also about those who vote on such Bills. I do not applies only to one territorial part of the UK, it has to think this Bill will meet the concerns of those who feel secure the support of a majority of Members from that they are being given an unfair deal by the post-devolution area as well as of the House as a whole. That is a matter constitutional arrangements. that should be explored further. I therefore think the Bill would be the first stage on a I will not speak any longer because I want to see the short road to real pressure being applied on certain debate come to a timely conclusion, but I congratulate MPs not to vote on issues that only affected England. my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire As the SNP is unlikely to form part of a coalition again. She has moved the debate forward substantially Government here in Westminster—although one never and I look forward to the Minister’s comments in knows, as stranger things have happened—that might response to her questions. not be a problem for its Members.

Tom Greatrex: My hon. Friend is touching on an 12.19 pm important point about the SNP position. In his contribution, the hon. Member for Perth and North Mark Lazarowicz: I am delighted to be able to follow Perthshire (Pete Wishart) suggested he would never the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), dream of voting on English-only legislation. I had a who has made some important points. If I did not do so slightly different recollection of his party’s position, earlier, I certainly add my congratulations to the hon. however, and interestingly a check of the record reveals Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) on that on 26 April 2010 the First Minister and SNP the way she has taken the Bill forward and tried to leader, Alec Salmond, said he would, indeed, consider engage in debate on the issue. I do not for one minute voting on English matters were his party to form part of underestimate or diminish the danger to the Union that a coalition. could be posed by a feeling in England that the present arrangements, whereby MPs outside England can vote Mark Lazarowicz: That proves a point. on these issues, are unfair to English constituents. I accept that that could undermine the strength of the If MPs representing constituencies outside England Union, which I certainly would not want. However, I were barred from voting on issues affecting only England— put it to the hon. Lady, the hon. Gentleman and other the same position would, I assume, apply in respect of Members on the Government Benches—those who are other parts of the UK as well—there might, effectively, still present—that the Bill’s proposals are equally damaging be two Governments at Westminster. When I said that to the Union and to better governance of this place. might be the case, some Government Members clearly They are very dangerous, which is why I have concerns thought I was painting an extreme picture, but the hon. about the Bill. Member for Milton Keynes South has more or less accepted the point. His position is that the consequence The complexity of Bills is at the heart of some of the of the road down which this Bill wants to go is that a objections to the proposals. With respect, I say to the measure that applies to English-only areas could pass hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete only if it had majority support not only from the House Wishart) that that cannot just be laughed off as easily as a whole but among MPs in England. resolvable in most cases. Many pieces of legislation that appear to apply only to one part of the UK actually In effect, that would mean that for government within have implications for the rest of the UK. We have heard England we would on many occasions end up with about high-speed rail and the health service, for some kind of quasi-coalition. If a Government did not example. Let us say a Bill to privatise the NHS in have a majority of MPs in England, they could not get England were being debated in this place and the votes their programme through. They would either have to of Scottish MPs—even including Scottish National have no programme at all or would have to depend on party MPs—were crucial. As such a Bill would clearly other parties to get a majority. That might require a new have possible consequences for Scotland at a future form of coalition Government—I am quite in favour of date, does the hon. Gentleman really think people coalition-type approaches, proportional representation would understand why we did not vote on it because it and the rest of it, much to the chagrin of some of my nominally applies only to England? We cannot simply hon. Friends, but it certainly is a new road to be going write off such issues as easily addressable. Concern down. That seems to me to be the obvious logical about Scottish MPs voting comes to a head in respect consequence of the position put forward by the hon. of controversial measures such as tuition fees, but such Member for Milton Keynes South. concerns do not merely arise rarely, because there are Alternatively, if the UK Government party had a many Bills that have implications across the UK even majority of seats in the UK but not in England and though they only affect one part of it in direct another had a majority of seats in England, the other legislative terms. party would be able to get its programme through for 695 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 696

[Mark Lazarowicz] were either a full-scale Union or the hon. Gentleman’s preferred solution. That shows how hard it is to answer England on the “devolved issues” that apply to parts of this question. the UK and we would therefore effectively have two We must ask whether the West Lothian question—as Governments. That possibility is not that far-fetched—it the Minister has pointed out, we should not call it is quite easy to see how different electoral arithmetic that—is such a fundamental question that it must be could have that result. addressed. If it must be addressed, is this the right way Any suggestion that that analysis is somehow far-fetched of addressing it? I suspect that the concerns underlying prompts an important question: let us say that we had a this matter are not really about voting but about money. UK Labour Government who were against NHS There is a feeling of concern among some people in privatisation—I am not trying to rehash earlier debates— England that the financial arrangements between Scotland and a Conservative Government in England who were and the rest of the UK are somehow an unfair deal. in favour of some form of privatisation. If that Conservative There has been a lot of debate about this issue in the party had a majority in England to force through its House and there is plenty of evidence that that is not policies, would it not try to do so? Of course it would. It the case—Scotland gets more in some respects, but then would try to represent what it thought were the best some parts of England get above the average while interests of the country. It is not at all inconceivable other parts of England get below the average. There are that we could end up effectively with two Governments also all the issues about oil resources, taxation and so in this House when it came to matters that applied only on to consider. Once we get into all that I suspect that in England. the reality is that Scotland is not “subsidised” in the way that people suggest. A bit more transparency may address Thomas Docherty: I just want to make an observation. some of those issues, so that is something to welcome in I have heard the remarks from Government Members the work that Treasury Ministers are doing. If spending, about the growing sense of anger among some constituents. which I suspect is the real issue rather than voting, How much anger does my hon. Friend think there could be addressed, that would resolve some of the concerns. would be among the constituents of a party that was nominally in government but was unable to get its Bills On the voting issue, I wonder whether the problem is through even though the Secretary of State and Prime really so great that it requires this solution. The Union Minister were from that party? How angry would people has never been a perfect, symmetrical arrangement. be then? From 1603, and the Union of the Crowns, and from 1707 with the treaty of Union there have been lots of anomalies, which have come about primarily because Mark Lazarowicz: They would be very angry, and there is one big member—England—and smaller members would be entitled to be if they were supporters of a in the Union. People have tried to get perfect symmetry party that supported a UK-wide state and could not get over the years but have not been able to achieve that. its policies through. Do we really need that perfect symmetry if the cost is to The problem that not having Scottish, Welsh or Northern be disruption of the kind that these measures would Irish MPs voting on English-only matters raises is very cause to the way that this place operates and to the real and I do not think that some Members have fully government of the UK? If the issue is really so great thought through its consequences. Once a Government that it requires a solution that is going to address it with a majority in the House could not get through completely, the only answer will be something like an parts of their programme and if Opposition parties English Parliament or Assembly with devolution to could get through parts of their programme, the England of those issues that are currently devolved to consequences would go beyond the House of Commons Scotland, Wales and so on. I suspect however that that and Parliament. The civil service and Departments would not solve many of the concerns of those hon. would increasingly be put in a situation where civil Members who want to address this issue. If the West servants would wonder who was in government if their Lothian question has to be answered, that is probably Minister had executive authority over certain matters the only way. I certainly am not convinced that it can but could not guarantee getting policy through the be met. House because Opposition parties could get theirs through. That would begin to cause some issues with how the I am not closing my mind to any of the suggestions Government’s systems operate. that might come from the commission that the Minister is going to set up, but I heartily endorse the view of the Some might say that what I am saying is far-fetched, hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire that it but once we go along this road the consequences can should not be just an internal, Westminster parliamentary develop more quickly than some might think. That is commission but that it should draw on expertise from why the proposals that are being put forward for effectively all the devolved regions of the UK. It should draw on English votes only for English MPs have difficulties and academic and political expertise. I accept that it should dangers. They could cause the type of division, anger not be something that goes on for years and years, and animosity that would cause further tensions in the eventually disappearing into the long grass, but it needs Union, which I want to maintain. I have no objections to be done comprehensively and in the round. This issue to the commission being set up by the Government on may seem relatively minor in terms of how it can be this issue, although I suspect that finding the answers to addressed in parliamentary terms, but once we go down the questions will not be so easy. this road there is a real risk that we will undermine the The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire fundamental nature of the House and the way that we (Pete Wishart) mentioned Tam Dalyell, and of course govern, thereby causing further tension between different his point in raising the West Lothian question was that parts of the Union, which is the last thing that any of us he objected to devolution per se. He thought the alternatives who want to keep the Union alive want to happen. 697 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 698

12.32 pm sense. The issue is actually extremely simple, as becomes clear if we look at both the Bill before us—which is Mr Nuttall: It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member what we are supposed to do anyway on Third Reading—and for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz). I our Standing Orders. am glad that in his opening remarks he recognised the danger of allowing the current situation, in which English The Bill, actually, does not pose innumerable political constituents feel that the constitutional settlement is problems for either side of the House. All it says, under unfair to England, to continue. the heading “Duties of the Secretary of State”, is: I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for West “The Secretary of State must, when publishing draft legislation, Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) on piloting the Bill ensure that the legal and financial effect of that legislation on through the legislative minefield of Report and Third each part of the United Kingdom is separately and clearly identified.” Reading today. Being drawn as high as seventh in the It is as simple as that. It does not actually address the private Member’s Bill ballot gave her a flying start, and substance of the West Lothian question, but something she has taken every advantage of her good fortune. In that can address the substance of the West Lothian highlighting the gross unfairness that is encapsulated in question is already in our Standing Orders. what we all refer to as the West Lothian question, as it It is so simply put in Standing Order 97(1): has been referred to for many years, she is doing a great “After any public bill has been first printed, the Speaker shall, service not only to her constituents but to constituents if of the opinion that its provisions relate exclusively to Scotland, throughout the country. give a certificate to that effect”. Like the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire The House within five minutes next Tuesday afternoon, (Pete Wishart), I was not here for the Bill’s Second if it wished, could simply pass a motion to amend its Reading, so that Division was unfortunately one of the own Standing Orders so that they read, “After any few in which I have been unable to take part. In fact, public bill has been first printed, the Speaker shall, if of that Division shows the importance of attending and the opinion that its provisions relate exclusively to Scotland voting, because the Bill passed by only two votes on or England, give a certificate to that effect”. Second Reading. Had I been here and voted, that The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife majority would have increased by 50%. (Thomas Docherty) has said—some of the points that The sense of unfairness about the fact that Members he made were quite good—that there might be great of Parliament from, for example, Scotland can vote on political consequences. There would not, because as my legislation that affects my constituents but does not hon. Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire affect their own is keenly felt by many of my constituents. (Oliver Heald) has said, Standing Order No. 97 is not a During the general election and the years that I was closed Standing Order, because it gives a route to the campaigning in Bury North leading up to it, that issue House and the Minister. Once the Speaker has given his was brought up on the doorstep many times. It is all the certificate, that is not the end of the process, because more puzzling, therefore, that some 15 months after the Standing Order No. 97(2) states: general election we are hardly any closer to resolving “On the order being read for the second reading of a bill so the problem. The Bill might not solve the problem in its certified, a motion may be made by a Minister”. entirety, but it is a step in the right direction. To respond to the hon. Member for Perth and North Although I appreciate that the West Lothian question Perthshire, if there was doubt about whether the tuition is not entirely simple or straightforward, I am sure that fees Bill related exclusively to England—on the face of many of my constituents will find it difficult to understand it, one might think that it would relate exclusively to why so little progress has been made towards resolving England, given that it concerns education—because of a matter that has been on everyone’s mind for decades. a possible knock-on financial effect for Scotland, there It might well be a difficult problem, but is it really so could be communication through the usual channels. difficult that it should take 15 months simply to prepare Despite the Speaker’s certificate sending the Bill to and issue a one-page statement which tells us no more Grand Committee—the English Grand Committee in than we knew before yesterday—that the Government this case—I am sure that we could accommodate the intend to establish a commission to consider the West SNP, because our Standing Orders are sensible and, as Lothian question? We still do not know the commission’s my hon. Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire membership or terms of reference. Many will rightly has said, we have to live together in this place. In such wonder, as I do, why these matters could not have been circumstances, we could say that the tuition fees Bill under consideration for the past 15 months and dealt should not be given to the English Grand Committee with before now. I suspect that they would have been, and that it should not be considered exclusively by had we had a purely Conservative Government. English Members. There is therefore a neat and elegant The Bill may not be the complete solution to the West solution to the problem. Lothian question, but it is a step in the right direction. I Despite four decades of debate about the West Lothian am happy to support the Bill’s progress today, and question, we could move in a slow and traditional should it pass on Third Reading today, as I genuinely way—in a Fabian way, if I may say so; not a revolutionary trust that it will, I wish it well in the other place. way—to solve the problem. We could simply amend our Standing Orders and develop a procedure, bit by bit, 12.37 pm through which exclusively English legislation would be Mr Leigh: We have had a very long debate, but the referred to an English Grand Committee, so that only issue is terribly simple. I agree with virtually everything English Members would vote. that the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire If that approach was such a problem, why, during the (Pete Wishart) has said—apart, of course, from the end time we have had Standing Order No. 97—throughout game of what he is trying to achieve. The rest made the 20th century and, for all I know, the 19th century—has 699 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 700

[Mr Leigh] has always been the Scottish Grand Committee, and nobody has said that it would lead to the break-up of no hon. Member said that there was a great problem? the United Kingdom. The Speaker issuing a certificate There was no great debate even between 1992 and 1997. to say that a Bill is exclusively about English education At that time, if the Speaker issued a certificate to say will not break up the United Kingdom. It is so simple; that a Bill was exclusively Scottish, it would be considered why do the Government not do it? by the Scottish Grand Committee, on which the Labour party would have had a big majority, and there was no Mark Lazarowicz: I do not think that the Bill that put argument. If there was an insuperable problem with into effect the poll tax in Scotland went to the Scottish extending the remit of Standing Order No. 97 to England, Grand Committee, but the hon. Gentleman was here one would have expected that the measure would have then, and I was not, and I may be wrong in my been the subject of great debate in the past, but that was understanding. For lots of entirely non-controversial not the case. Bills, an English Grand Committee would not be a To return to the point made by my hon. Friend the problem, but when it comes to controversial Bills, a Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall), if the Government difficulty might arise, in that Bills might have a majority wanted to act, they would not need a commission. We in England but not be able to carry a majority in the would not need even the Bill, because all it does is say House. That would raise the issue of a Government not that the Secretary of State will express an opinion about being able to operate in a coherent way unless they had how legislation will affect particular parts of the United a majority in England, as well as in the UK as a whole. Kingdom. The Bill is completely harmless, because it ties neither the House nor any Minister. Mr Leigh: Between 1992 and 1997—and following the 1983 and even 1979 elections, when there were large Thomas Docherty: I assure the hon. Gentleman that I Conservative majorities but a decreasing number of am not a Fabian—I probably never will be a Fabian—but Scottish Tory MPs—I remember that there were huge the difference between Standing Order No. 97 and the debates about the poll tax and the rest of it, but I do not Bill is that clause 1 provides that the Secretary of State remember that there was any specific argument about will make the determination, not the Speaker. Does he the provisions of Standing Order No. 97. Of course, it agree that that shows the political danger in the Bill? would still be in the gift of any Government to say, “This is such a large issue”—the hon. Gentleman mentioned Mr Leigh: I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s the poll tax—“that we want to consider the legislation intervention, because that point was the one grain of on the Floor of the House,” but that does not mean that truth in his speech. It increasingly worries me, because I Standing Order No. 97 is wrong. It does not mean that wonder whether we are wrongly politicising the problem. anybody argued against it. It does not mean that a We all know that the Bill, like all private Members’ Bills, Standing Order No. 97 could not be created for England, is fundamentally a campaigning Bill. We acknowledge so I do not understand the point that the hon. Gentleman our debt to my hon. Friend the Member for West is making. Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin), because she has achieved I suggest that there is a simple, clear, elegant solution. a huge amount through her campaign by actually getting The Government may, by all means, set up the commission a commission set up, even though it is entirely unnecessary. if they want to, but they have to get on with the issue I understand the point made by the hon. Member for now. They have to make some progress. My solution is Dunfermline and West Fife. If I thought that the Bill, as there; they should get on with it. Although I have talked enacted, would tie the hands of the House and politicise in House of Commons terms about Standing Orders the process in such a way that a Conservative Education and all the rest of it, which sounds fairly esoteric, there Secretary could determine that a Bill was exclusively is a huge political issue, which the hon. Member for English and therefore stop any Scottish Member from Perth and North Perthshire has identified. It is that we voting on it, I would have my doubts. However, while have to make some concession to the English public, my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire who are rightly outraged that so many issues that exclusively may tell me that her Bill is more ambitious than I concern England are voted on by Scottish Members of believe, I can read only what it states: Parliament, although those measures will not affect “The Secretary of State must, when publishing draft legislation, them. ensure that the legal and financial effect of that legislation on I say to the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, each part of the United Kingdom is separately and clearly identified.” my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfriesshire, The Bill does not say that the Secretary of State will Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), who represents decide whether a Bill is exclusively English; all that will the Conservative constituency in Scotland, that he should happen is that there will be more knowledge. The Speaker not vote on English business, any more than I should would make his determination, but even after that, if vote on Scottish education. Indeed, I cannot vote on my proposal were accepted, the Minister, in consultation Scottish education. He should have a self-denying ordinance. with the other parties, could decide that a Bill—relating, I very much hope that when the Minister speaks, he will say, to tuition fees—should be discussed on the Floor of intimate that he will get on and solve the problem. He is the House. There is absolutely no problem or difficulty the only one who can solve it, and he can do so within about it. our Standing Orders. Hundreds of thousands of words have been talked about the West Lothian question—about how it will 12.49 pm divide us, and about how there would be two classes of Member and all the rest of it. That is complete nonsense; Mr Harper: I am pleased to see you in the Chair, we have always had several classes of Member. There Madam Deputy Speaker. This morning, Mr Deputy have always been Ministers and Back Benchers. There Speaker was very generous in allowing some latitude. 701 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 702

If I may, I shall deal first with the questions from my powers, but they may cover England and Wales and, hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett indeed, Northern Ireland. They may not be England-only Baldwin) about yesterday’s written ministerial statement Bills—they may have different effects across the United on the West Lothian question. That may be helpful to Kingdom. It may not be possible to have a complete the House, because that is what quite a lot of the debate read-across from Standing Order No. 97, but that might has focused on, and then I shall talk about her Bill. be one of the solutions. My hon. Friend’s suggestion of On timing, my hon. Friend the Member for Milton next Tuesday may be a little hasty, but given that he has Keynes South (Iain Stewart) has referred to the importance suggested that the debate in its present terms has run for of dealing with the issue at a time when it is not a live four decades—the general issue about how the United political issue and when we are not in a crisis. He is Kingdom is governed has run for hundreds of years—I consistent, because he made the same point in February do not think that the progress that we have made is as on Second Reading. I responded by making it clear—I tardy as some have suggested. hope that this will reassure my hon. Friends the Members for West Worcestershire and for Gainsborough Thomas Docherty: Will the commission examine what (Mr Leigh)—that the Government accepted that the will happen with Government new clauses? A Bill may issue needed to be dealt with in this Parliament. It is apply to only one of the four nations but, during its important to deal with it before it gives rise to a passage through the House, the Government may table constitutional crisis—in fact, that would be a very bad a new clause that applies to more than one nation. idea. I said that it would be Mr Harper: That highlights the complexity of the “better to deal with the question…in an atmosphere of relative calm rather than to solve it hurriedly in an atmosphere of crisis.”— issue. It is one reason why, as I have said, the Bill does [Official Report, 11 February 2011; Vol. 523, c. 638.] not provide the solution, as it applies only to draft legislation. As the hon. Gentleman said in a previous I said that hon. Members, particularly those of a Unionist debate, legislation can change significantly between its inclination, would agree that it would be better to deal draft stage and its introduction. Indeed, sometimes that with the matter when we can look at it calmly and is the point of introducing draft legislation and consulting reflectively rather than when we are being pressed to do on it, as we want to listen to what people have to say. A so in a rush. I said so then, and I repeat it in response to legislative solution is not satisfactory to deal with the my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South. problem, because it would open up procedures in the I hope that that reassures colleagues that the Government House to the courts, which is something that I am sure intend to deal with the matter and not to kick it into the hon. Members on both sides of the House do not want long grass, as some have feared. to do. The commission would need to examine that My hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire legislative process. had a number of questions, which she set out very My hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire carefully, about the commission, including the timing of alluded to the question whether there was a difference the announcement. We made it clear in the statement between the coalition partners. I can assure her that yesterday that we will undertake a short consultation although the two coalition parties come at the issue with Mr Speaker and other parliamentary authorities from different angles—the Liberal Democrats have always on how the commission can best address procedural preferred a federal solution—the policy being set out is matters in the House. We want to make sure that it can in the coalition agreement, the statement that I issued is come up with a solution—or a range of solutions—that the collectively agreed position of the Government, and is workable and practical, which we could then debate there is no difference of opinion on the issue. The and put into effect. There is no point in introducing parties want to make progress and move forward. solutions that simply would not work. I said in the statement that I expected after that short Mark Lazarowicz: To be clear, I think the agreement consultation that we would introduce formal proposals between the Minister’s party and his absent friends is on the membership of the commission and its terms of simply on the commission. I do not think they have any reference in the weeks—note the plural—after the House agreement on the solution, if I am right in my returns in October. My hon. Friend said that we had understanding. previously indicated that we would make those announcements this year, so Members can work out Mr Harper: The hon. Gentleman is right, but we very quickly that it will be between the return of the want to solve the problem and we want to make sure the House on 11 October and its rising for the Christmas solution is workable. He may want to come back, but let recess. me deal with some of the other aspects that I set out yesterday. My hon. Friend wants to know what the out date would be. I am afraid that on that one I am going to On the membership of the commission and the scope, have to disappoint her, but I hope that I illustrated in we set out yesterday what it would and would not cover. my response to my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Typically when the issue has been discussed, the West Keynes South that we intend to deal with this and make Lothian question has fallen into three components. One sure that we do. I do not think that it is quite as speedy has been the representation of the different nations in to deal with as my hon. Friend the Member for the House. Another has been money—the hon. Member Gainsborough has suggested, because there are for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz) consequences to the different solutions. For example, it touched on that—and the third has been the processes may be the case that Bills cannot be certified as England- of the House. only because there is a varying devolution settlement On the representation of the different parts of the across the United Kingdom. They may not apply in United Kingdom, we have dealt with that in the Scotland, because the Scottish Parliament has the relevant Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill, 703 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 704

[Mr Harper] not heard all of the point of order. I said that I would read it, as I have, and would respond to it. As I said in so every part of the United Kingdom will be equally response to the hon. Member for Perth and North represented in the House. On the money side, I think my Perthshire, the Government will listen to Members’ hon. Friend mentioned that we would not be dealing thoughts about what should be encompassed within the with that. We have made it clear that there may be issues terms of reference. Nevertheless, it is a commission that that need to be dealt with in relation to the Barnett the Government are setting up to fulfil their own coalition formula, but the time to tackle those is when the deficit agreement. I listened to what he said, though, and I am has been dealt with, not now. We have made it clear that happy to listen to what other Members have to say. I the commission will not deal with those financial matters. hope that the hon. Member for Rhondda, who I am They are significant and raise a range of questions, but disappointed is not here to take part in this debate— the commission—much to the relief, I am sure, of those [Interruption.] I see that other Members share that whom we will ask to serve on it—will not be tasked with view. I hope that he will look at Hansard and feel that I that responsibility. have responded to and dealt with his point of order, I heard clearly the views that the hon. Member for although strictly speaking it was not a point of order—that Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) set out about was your ruling yesterday, Madam Deputy Speaker. some of the questions that the commission might need None the less, I hope that he will feel that I have to consider. I welcome any thoughts that other Members answered it properly. On those points, I also hope that I may have about the scope of the terms of reference. The have satisfied my hon. Friend the Member for West hon. Gentleman identified an important one—the Worcestershire. interaction and the agreement between Parliament and My hon. Friend asked how the commission’s the devolved legislatures about whether the particular recommendations will be enacted. To some extent, that areas fall within the devolution settlements and if they will depend on its recommendations. Clearly, if it do, whether those devolved legislatures are content for recommends a solution with a legislative basis, there us to legislate here. I have noted that and will bear it in will need to be a Bill and it would have to be dealt with mind. in the usual way within government. However, it is The commission will be set up by the Government, so entirely possible—perhaps even likely, given what I have the terms of reference will be set by Ministers. My hon. said about the Bill—that because it relates to how the Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire (Oliver House operates, the solution would be a matter for the Heald) made the point that the House operates in a House and Standing Orders. That would clearly need a consensual way and we do not want Standing Orders to different set of solutions. However, given what I said to turn into a battleground. We have said that there will be my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South, I a full opportunity for the political parties represented in hope that I have made it clear that the Government the House to have their say following the completion of want to solve this problem. The commission is the the commission’s work. Clearly, that will have to take mechanism for laying out some workable solutions, and place anyway, because if we were going to legislate or I hope that she will find that of comfort. change Standing Orders, there would have to be a The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife debate and a vote in the House, but we want to make (Thomas Docherty) talked about the 1990s and the sure that when the commission has set out some workable process of devolution, and he said that it was not yet solutions, we talk to parties in the House to move as far complete. One of the problems is that this was not as is possible in a sensible way forward. thought through properly. The Labour Government thought through some parts of it, but did not think Oliver Heald: I fully appreciate that my hon. Friend about how England would be governed in this devolved wants to consult the House authorities on how best to era. They did that partly because it was a difficult frame the commission and the way in which it works, question and partly, I suspect, because some of their but can he guarantee that the Clerks of the House and interests were different. The fact is, however, that devolution, the experts we have here will be able to have an input to which we support, has had consequences, and we just the work of the commission, so that their expertise is need to work through them and deal with them sensibly. fully taken into account by its members? Of course, I do not need to answer his other point, because my hon. Friend the Member for North East Mr Harper: My hon. Friend puts his finger on exactly Hertfordshire has adequately demonstrated to the House the point on which we wish to consult Mr Speaker and that our right hon. Friend the noble Lord Strathclyde is, the parliamentary authorities. We want to make sure indeed, Scottish and resides in Scotland. He defended that the deliberations of the commission are informed him so well that I need not trouble the House on that by the way the House works, and that when it proposes point any further. possible solutions, they are workable and practical and I have dealt with the points raised by the hon. Member will not have unforeseen consequences. We need to for Perth and North Perthshire. I want to deal with two think through the consequences and have a properly points made by the hon. Member for Edinburgh North informed debate so that Members know what they are and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz). He is right that this is a supporting when we bring forward those solutions. complex matter, but I think that he confused or muddled That is exactly why we will have a short process of up government and legislation. The Government cannot consultation with Mr Speaker. always assume that they will get their legislation through. I return briefly to the short exchange yesterday when They might well have a pretty decent chance of getting the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) raised it through this House, although some of the legislation his point of order and you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I have been involved in has required a fair bit of were in the Chair. I returned to the Chamber but had persuasive work with my colleagues in the Conservative 705 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 706 party, not just with Opposition members—[Interruption.] was what those on his Front Bench in this House have I hear agreement on that. In the other place, however, said. We all have Back Benchers with different views, where the Government do not have a majority, it is not but that is his party’s policy, so I will hope that he will a foregone conclusion, and Ministers have to undertake support it as we make progress. Members appointed in a process of persuasion and consultation, and often the other place when it is reformed will not be party have to make concessions. Even Governments with a appointees; they will be independent Members from a majority in this place cannot take legislating for granted. party perspective. I am therefore not sure whether their Furthermore, aside from legislative issues, Ministers geographical origins, about which the hon. Gentleman have many powers and executive responsibilities that do has expressed concerns, are necessarily that important. not involve legislation. I think that he was guilty of Those Members will not represent geographical parts confusing those issues. of the United Kingdom, so the West Lothian question does not really apply. Mark Lazarowicz: Of course I accept that the Government can never guarantee the passage of legislation Thomas Docherty rose— through either House. Surely he must accept, though, that there could at least be potential difficulties if a Mr Harper: I will keep going along this line for as Government with a majority in the House could not long as Madam Deputy Speaker permits me. rely on a majority on a wide range of issues falling under this English-only provision. At the very least that has to be considered seriously by his commission. Thomas Docherty: Let us take an individual who, for argument’s sake, comes from Scotland, lives in Scotland, has a broad Scottish background and has no interests in Mr Harper: I accept that there is a problem; I just England, but who is appointed to the upper House. thought that the hon. Gentleman overstated it. There is Would that not simply exacerbate the West Lothian an issue, though, and it is important that we look at question? how the House operates. We had a debate about different classes of MPs, and about a recognition of the Government and the Opposition. Clearly, if some of his concerns Mr Harper: It may do, but those are questions that came to pass, we would need to consider whether they can be dealt with when we debate House of Lords affected how the House operated, which is exactly why reform. We can deal with the West Lothian question as we need to ensure, as we said in the written statement, it pertains to this elected House now; I am sure that that the commission comprises people with constitutional, those other questions will provide yet another exciting legal and parliamentary expertise—so that we think avenue of debate later. Indeed, I suspect—and fear—that those consequences through. some in the other place may have noted the hon. Gentleman’s concerns and may, even as we speak, be Thomas Docherty: I am most grateful for the advice formulating concerns that they have not had before and that the Minister is so generously giving, but can he say that we shall have to address. a little more about the relationship between the commission Let me turn to the Bill. As I said when we debated the that he is establishing and the debate about reforming amendments, in drafting her Bill my hon. Friend the the other place—in particular about how one defines a Member for West Worcestershire sensibly stuck to draft peer, which I mentioned in my speech, and how that legislation, so that—as she and I have discussed before—she would work between the upper House and the commission? was in no danger of opening up the internal processes of this House and how we legislate to the courts. That Mr Harper: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman asks was the right thing to do. However, in a sense, that has that. Clearly peers are not elected at the moment, so in meant that her Bill, although an excellent vehicle for no recognisable sense do they come from different parts debate and exploring the issues—something that all of the United Kingdom. As we take our reform proposals Members have found useful—does not really present a forward, this issue clearly has the potential to pop up in solution. Indeed, the Bill does not even present a partial the other place. If we come up with a sensible, workable solution, because it cannot be the solution for actual solution in this House, it could simply be adopted for legislation. For those of us who represent seats in the way a reformed second Chamber works, when we England, our constituents are not really concerned about are—as I hope we will be—successful in making progress draft legislation; they are concerned about actual legislation on our reform proposals. and actual spending. Her Bill and the approach that it takes cannot apply to actual legislation because it is Thomas Docherty: I am most grateful for the straight legislative in nature. face with which the Minister said that last sentence, but Apart from that, as I said when we discussed the given that 20% will still be appointed and that those amendments, the Government already set out clearly appointed are intended to reflect the UK balance of the the territorial extent of provisions in actual legislation. House, how would the Government reconcile a Indeed, I gave the House some examples on Report of UK-balanced upper House with an English-balanced the different ways in which that is explained in various lower House? Bills. That is already done, and in a way, that is not the difficult part of the process. Rather, the difficult part is Mr Harper: I will give the hon. Gentleman a brief what follows from saying that Bills apply to different answer, because I fear that if I give too wide an answer, parts of the UK. The hon. Member for Perth and Madam Deputy Speaker will tell me off for straying North Perthshire made it clear that, because of his into House of Lords reform. I am surprised that he party’s approach, it has had no trouble in identifying made that remark about a straight face because it is his legislation that affects different parts of the UK or in party’s policy to have an elected House of Lords. That making decisions about how to vote. I do not think that 707 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 708

[Mr Harper] My hon. Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire made a point about the flexibility that is that is the difficult part. I think also that my hon. built into Standing Order No. 97, whereby, if the Speaker Friend the Member for Gainsborough shares that view. made a ruling in a controversial situation, it would be The Bill does not move us further forward in that possible for the Government, and other parties through regard. It merely adds legislative bureaucracy and some the usual channels, to make decisions to protect the uncertainty, and, certainly from a Conservative perspective, neutrality of the Chair. Those are the kinds of issues we do not want to legislate when it is not necessary to that the commission will need to think about. do so. Passing legislation that takes us no further forward It would have been relatively straightforward to rush is not appropriate. into establishing a commission, but it might have produced My hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire answers that were incapable of being delivered or on referred to the democracy taskforce, a Conservative which there was no agreement. The process that we have thing that was chaired by my right hon. and learned undertaken, in a more thoughtful way, will mean that Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), now the we have a commission that will be able to deal with the Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary. As she said, the issue and put forward solutions on which there will be a taskforce did not think that a full version of English considerable amount of agreement. I urge my hon. votes for English laws would be desirable. It also looked Friend the Member for West Worcestershire not to at a modified version that would allow English Members proceed any further with her Bill, but she can be confident into the Committee and Report stages of English-only that she has done the House and the country a service legislation, while allowing the whole House to vote on by instigating this debate, and perhaps also by holding the rest. It decided that there was no perfect, neat, tidy, the Government’s feet to the fire to ensure that we make no-loose-ends solution to the problem, and that the sufficiently swift progress. answer lay in making some improvements and moving forward. Looking into that approach in more detail will 1.15 pm be a task for the commission. Harriett Baldwin: With the leave of the House, I would like to answer some of the Minister’s points and I think that we have made some progress. I hope that thank everyone who has spoken today, either in support I have been able to convince my hon. Friend the Member of or against the Bill. A wide range of interesting points for West Worcestershire that the wait for the membership have been made. I agree with the Minister that my hon. and terms of reference of the commission will not be a Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) was long one, and that the Government are committed to a little optimistic when he said that the matter could be resolving the problem and not leaving it to fester until it sorted out by next Tuesday. becomes a crisis. Her Bill had to be very narrow because I welcome the fact that the Minister made it clear that of the difficulty of legislating in this area, and it is not he does not intend to kick the issue into the long grass. the right one. I therefore urge her to withdraw it at this He also reassured us that the consultation that is under time, and I look forward to her engaging thoroughly way on setting the terms of reference for the commission, with the commission and putting forward her views its membership and who might chair it, will be short. to it. He gave us a great deal of confidence that we would I would just caution Members on the matter of know who those people are by 31 December. That Mr Speaker certifying Bills, as this is an area in which is reassuring. we would do well to think through the complexities. However, we still need to discuss some of the points Certifying Bills is not an uncontroversial matter. I think that I raised earlier. The Bill provides for all proposed that one or two Members might have been a little blasé legislation to include, on the face of the measures, the about it. There has already been some debate in the implications for the Barnett or any successor formula. other place when Mr Speaker has certified Bills as In the discussion of the terms of reference of the money Bills under the terms of the Parliament Act. I commission, we want it to examine that. Although I remember, when I was taking the Fixed-term Parliaments agree that we do not want an enormous amount of Bill through, the remarks made in the other place by the bureaucracy expended on spelling out the financial former Speakers, Baroness Boothroyd and Lord Martin. implications, it would be helpful to the House, and They were unhappy about the proposals for the role of potentially the Speaker, if the commission considered the Speaker in certifying motions of no confidence, whether the proposal was helpful. I was therefore not saying that that could draw the Chair into areas of reassured to hear that the House could not consider the controversy. financial implications until the deficit was tackled. As we heard earlier, Members will want to know the We need to ensure that the things that the Speaker consequences for the Barnett or any successor formula. takes into account in making such determinations will We did not hear what sort of scrutiny the Chamber not draw the Chair into party political controversy. might be able to undertake if the commission recommends That might not be as simple to achieve as colleagues a change to Standing Orders. The Minister mentioned a think. On uncontroversial Bills that are not a matter of range of solutions that the commission might devise, huge debate between the parties, the Speaker will be and the options will be the subject of continuing interest able to make those determinations without attracting to hon. Members. Even if there were no legislative any criticism. When highly charged matters that could solution, I presume that the House would have to have have significant political consequences are involved, an opportunity to discuss them. however, we would need to consider whether getting the Speaker to make such decisions could endanger the Mr Harper: I was not very specific about the way in impartiality of the Chair and risk drawing him into which the House will deal with the matter because we political controversy. do not know what the solutions will be. Clearly, there 709 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill 710 would be an opportunity, if it was appropriate, for the commission that has been given no specific timetable or House to debate the conclusions. If there was a proposal out date as a way of delaying and stalling for a considerable to change Standing Orders, a motion to do that would time. be tabled, which the House would debate and vote on. To some extent, it depends on the commission’s On the issue of the timetable and the out date, if the recommendations. The danger of my being too specific Bill has done nothing else it has concentrated the is that the point of setting up the commission is for it to Government’s mind on their own business. I therefore use its expertise to devise solutions. I do not want to wish to test the will of the House. prejudge the solutions. If I did that, there would not be Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third much point in having a commission. time. Harriett Baldwin: I thank the Minister for that The House divided: Ayes 24, Noes 40. clarification. It leads me to my final reaction to his statement. As he acknowledged, it is disappointing that Division No. 344] [1.22 pm the commission will not be given an out date. It would not have been impossible for us to hear today the AYES Minister’s expectations of an out date. Is it likely to fall Baker, Steve Latham, Pauline during the current parliamentary Session, or after the Baldwin, Harriett Leigh, Mr Edward Queen’s Speech? I feel that it should be timely enough Barclay, Stephen Mordaunt, Penny to enable Members to resolve this complex issue before Bone, Mr Peter Nokes, Caroline the next general election looms. Bradley, Karen Nuttall, Mr David Cash, Mr William Raab, Mr Dominic Mr Harper: Let me clarify what I said. I did not say Chope, Mr Christopher Turner, Mr Andrew that there would be no out date; I simply said that I had Coffey, Dr Thérèse Vickers, Martin not reached a conclusion that I could share with my Dinenage, Caroline Wishart, Pete Eustice, George Wollaston, Dr Sarah hon. Friend today. Obviously, when a commission is Heald, Oliver established it must be given some idea of when it is Hoey, Kate Tellers for the Ayes: supposed to report, and, as I said to my hon. Friend the Hollobone, Mr Philip Iain Stewart and Member for Milton Keynes South, we want to solve the Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Simon Hart problem before it has to be solved in a moment of crisis. Setting up the commission is not an attempt to kick the NOES issue into the long grass. We want it to come up with workable solutions which the House can then debate Anderson, Mr David Lazarowicz, Mark and put into action. Baker, Norman Loughton, Tim Beith, rh Sir Alan Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Harriett Baldwin: I thank the Minister for his clarification, Benyon, Richard Munn, Meg but I am not sure that I heard within it a specific Brown, Lyn O’Brien, Mr Stephen timetable that he had in mind. I would expect an out Burns, Conor Pound, Stephen Burns, rh Mr Simon Randall, rh Mr John date for the commission to be some time within the Cooper, Rosie Robathan, rh Mr Andrew current Session. I would probably accept that it could Davey, Mr Edward Robertson, Hugh potentially be as long as 12 months after its establishment, Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Seabeck, Alison but I would consider even that to be quite a long time, Docherty, Thomas Shepherd, Mr Richard given that it has taken us 16 months to get a written Grayling, rh Chris Shuker, Gavin ministerial statement giving notice that it would be Greatrex, Tom Swire, rh Mr Hugo established. Hammond, rh Mr Philip Thurso, John Harper, Mr Mark Timms, rh Stephen Thomas Docherty: I am torn here. The hon. Lady has Heath, Mr David Umunna, Mr Chuka Hendry, Charles made some valid points, and I too am baffled by what Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Herbert, rh Nick the commission is all about if it is not about kicking the Woodcock, John issue into the long grass. However—now I am jumping Hoban, Mr Mark to the Minister’s defence—this is a vastly complex issue, Jones, Helen Tellers for the Noes: and trying to resolve it in the few months between Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald James Duddridge and Christmas and next summer might not do it due service. Keeley, Barbara Angela Watkinson

Harriett Baldwin: That gives me increasing grounds Question accordingly negatived. for worry about how people might be able to use a 711 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 House of Commons Disqualification 712 (Amendment) Bill House of Commons Disqualification My Bill would not abolish overnight the right for Members (Amendment) Bill to be Whips. There would be a period of transition for up to two years. Second Reading Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): 1.37 pm Obviously, I have to disagree with the hon. Gentleman Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I beg to about the wonderful job that the Whips Office does, as move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. it says here in my notes, but will he clarify what would happen to the functions that are provided to the royal It is a great pleasure, and somewhat of a surprise, to household by the Whips? Who would take on those roles? be able to move on to this uncontroversial and straightforward little Bill. We have the best part of an Mr Bone: Time is limited but I will address that later hour to discuss it, so I think we should make good if I get to it. progress. This is not an attempt to denigrate or try to get rid of I am introducing such an uncontroversial and minor individual Members or right hon. Members of Parliament Bill in the true spirit of private Members’ Bills. Its aim is who are Whips at the moment. Almost without exception, to act on the Prime Minister’s wishes, support coalition they are talented, thoughtful, hard-working Members party policy, increase parliamentary scrutiny, reduce of Parliament who would be better employed as Executive the size of the Government and save considerable Ministers in the Government, as shadow Ministers or amounts of money for the taxpayer. As I have said, it is on the Back Benches scrutinising the Executive. It is a uncontroversial, helpful to the Government and supportive waste of their considerable talent to have them in the of the Prime Minister. Whips Office. I should like to single out and praise two I know that people will be suspicious that this might Whips—the Government Chief Whip and the Government be a Government hand-out Bill. Let me reassure the Deputy Chief Whip, who have been exceptionally helpful House that although I have had some robust exchanges Members of Parliament and who have certainly produced with the Government about the Bill, I can confirm that a system of whipping that is fairer, freer and better than it is not such a Bill. I also noted, however, that the in the previous Parliament. In my opinion, they should objections raised by the Government were weak and both be Executive Ministers and should not waste their half-hearted, so reading between the lines I know that huge talents in the Whips Office. they are actually keen for the Bill to become an Act. The problem is not with the individuals or the tone of In a nutshell, the Bill would stop Members of Parliament the Whips Office but with the institution itself. One becoming Whips. Why am I introducing the Bill now? could argue that when there was slavery in the southern There is, of course, an argument, which I shall explore states of the USA, there were benign slave owners, and later, that Members of Parliament should not be Whips the tone of slavery definitely improved over the years, at any time, but there is a more practical reason why the but that does not take away from the fundamental fact Bill should be passed. The Government have confirmed that the institution of slavery was wrong because it that they will set up a business of the House committee sought to control other human beings through various by 2013 as part of the ongoing radical reform of Parliament methods. Similarly, the Whips Office seeks to control that is allowing better scrutiny of Government business. the minds, actions and votes of individual Members of May I praise the Deputy Leader of the House, who is in Parliament. That is fundamentally wrong. I would argue his place and who I hope will have a chance to reply, for strongly that we have a benign set of Whips at the what the Government have done? They have taken the moment, and the tone of whipping has definitely improved reform of Parliament seriously and there is ongoing considerably over the years, but it is the institution of progress—this Bill would just add a little to that progress. whipping that is wrong. The business of the House committee will timetable Looking elsewhere, let us imagine what would happen the business of the House so that the parliamentary if any other organisation, private company or individual week will be controlled by Parliament instead of being told a Member of Parliament when to speak, what to controlled by the Executive. That will have the effect of say or how to vote. They would be hauled before the doing away with most of the work that the Whips now House for contempt, but that is exactly what the Whips do, of which the organisation of the business of the try to do every day. They will flatter, cajole, threaten or House is a major task. Only yesterday, the Leader of even use blackmail to achieve this. They are a perfect the House reaffirmed at the Dispatch Box the Government’s example of people who believe that the ends justify the absolute commitment to setting up the business of the means. I have lost count of how many times the Whips House committee by 2013. He said: have shouted or sworn at me. The institution of the “This Government successfully implemented the recommendation Whips Office is secretive and highly efficient. It is to establish a Backbench Business Committee, which I am sure exceptionally talented at getting what it wants. that the hon. Gentleman welcomed. The majority of the remaining Before I go into the detail of the Bill, I shall briefly recommendations of the Wright Committee are a matter for the mention a television programme that many of us have House rather than Government. The Government will be bringing probably watched. In 1980, “Yes Minister” aired for the forward a Green Paper on intelligence and security later this year in which we will make initial proposals on how to reform the first time. It went on for a further four series. It is of Intelligence and Security Committee. As set out in the coalition course a satirical sitcom about a hapless Minister and agreement, the Government are committed to establishing a Parliament, but I understand that it is also the training House business committee in 2013.”—[Official Report, 8 September manual for Ministers. However, I mention the programme 2011; Vol. 532, c. 546.] for one episode and one scene alone. Jim Hacker, the Clause 3(2) of my Bill states: hapless Minister, says to his private secretary when the “This Act comes into force on the day of the appointment of Division bells sound, “What’s the vote?” The secretary the House of Commons Business Committee.” goes on to explain that it is about the education Bill, 713 House of Commons Disqualification 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 House of Commons Disqualification 714 (Amendment) Bill (Amendment) Bill and continues to explain about the details of the education That is what we Members of Parliament should do, and Bill and what it hopes to achieve. However, before he it is what Parliament itself was set up for us to do. We can finish Jim Hacker cuts him off and says, “No, don’t should act on behalf of our constituents, and use our tell me about the Bill; tell me which Lobby the Whips unbiased opinion and mature judgment to scrutinise want me to vote in. I don’t need to know about the Bill. every piece of legislation that comes our way so that we I just need to know which Lobby I have to vote in.” hold the Government to account, regardless of party That was 30 years ago, and nothing has changed over politics. Burke could surely not have foreseen how hard that period. it is today for a Member of Parliament to live up to his Most Members of the House, on most occasions ideal. Sadly, all too many of us succumb to pressure when Division bells ring, have no idea what they are from a particular set of men living: our flatterers, voting for. Many do not even know the basics of the cajolers and bullies who make up our party Whips. Bill; they are just voting the way the Whips tell them. Mr Hollobone: I am enjoying my hon. Friend’s powerful Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): My hon. contribution immensely. Does he agree that the better Friend is making an excellent speech. Is not the fact that that Back Benchers do their job, the better the Executive Members do not know which way to vote exposed will do their job, because we can raise the bar and hold whenever there is a free vote in the House and individual them to account properly? Members have to make up their own mind on an issue? They are standing by the doorways, not knowing which Mr Bone: My hon. Friend is quite right. I think it was Lobby to enter—which way to vote. It shows how the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw), when mechanical the system has become. he was Leader of the House in the previous Parliament, who said that there had never been a piece of legislation Mr Bone: As usual, my right hon. Friend—he should that had gone through the House and received proper be right honourable, but he is in fact my hon. Friend—is scrutiny that had not become a better Bill as a result of right. We have just seen an example of that. Allegedly, that scrutiny. The thinking of the Whips—that pushing Labour Members had a free vote in the Division a few stuff through without proper scrutiny achieves the best minutes ago, and outside in the corridor Members were for the Executive—is the wrong way round, because asking which way to vote. They had no idea what they that actually results in completely the opposite. were voting on. Luckily, there were some Labour Whips there, helpfully indicating which way they should go on Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): I strongly the free vote. We have had a problem in Parliament for support my hon. Friend’s Bill, but does it deal with the more than 30 years. Members of Parliament are voting, problem of the Committee of Selection? That Committee not according to what a Bill is about, but according to is dominated by the Whips and it effectively prevents what the Whips say. honest Back Benchers with an independent mind from May I explain how most Bills go through the House serving on many Public Bill Committees. of Commons nowadays? A Bill “gets sent to the House of Commons where it’s debated without Mr Bone: My hon. Friend hits on an important diligence—because automatic guillotines cut time short. It’s passed point. One of the problems in this Parliament is that without proper scrutiny—because standing committees for Public someone who does not agree with the line of the Executive Bills are stuffed with puppets of the Government. And it’s voted or the shadow Executive cannot get on to such Committees. through without much of a whisper—because MPs have been That happens because Whips nominate the membership whipped to follow the party line. of Committees, but a side benefit of my Bill would be We’ve got to give Parliament its teeth back so that people can that that would end, because there would be no Whips. have pride in it again—so they can look at it and say ‘yes: those Unlike in many other countries, the Executive live MPs we elect—they’re holding the government to account on my behalf.’” within Parliament, rather than outside it. They propose from within Parliament, and sit, live and breathe within [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] No wonder there were it. Over the years, people have therefore sought election cheers for that, because they are not my words, they are to Parliament not to become Members of Parliament, the words of my right hon. Friend the Member for but to become Ministers. They want to be either a Witney (Mr Cameron), the Prime Minister. Minister in government, or a shadow Minister in opposition. By stopping Members of Parliament becoming Whips In the vast majority of cases, people who are elected to and stopping Whips telling Members of Parliament the House of Commons want to be a Member of how to vote, we would help to address many of the Parliament not for its own end, but as a method to Prime Minister’s concerns; and as with so many other become a Minister. That gives enormous control to things, the Prime Minister is absolutely right: we need Government and Opposition Whips. If someone proposes to bring power back to Members of Parliament and to exercise their judgment against what the Whips want, away from the Executive. The Bill would enact the they will rapidly be given the threat that their career will Prime Minister’s wishes. be over and they will never become a Minister—I think I have not had the opportunity to discuss the Bill that I have probably qualified for that advice. with the Prime Minister, but I am sure that if he is available and my Bill goes to a Division, he will be in the Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): Does my hon. Aye Lobby. One may even say that his words were Friend agree that that leads to a form of creeping uttered in the same spirit as those of Edmund Burke, patronage? Mechanisms such as negative briefings are that great Conservative thinker, who once said about also used, and I was subject to a hostile Culture, Media the perfect MP that, and Sport briefing that was sent around. That goes to “his unbiased opinion, his mature judgment, his enlightened the heart of a culture in the House that undermines the conscience, he ought not to sacrifice…to any set of men living.” integrity of individual hon. Members. 715 House of Commons Disqualification 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 House of Commons Disqualification 716 (Amendment) Bill (Amendment) Bill Mr Bone: My hon. Friend has been elected to the time of Wilberforce, to whom he referred, political House to be a Member of Parliament and to use her parties were a little different, and there was not the own judgment. She hits on a good point, and if I get same volume of legislation? Perhaps I could ask him a time, I shall deal with the problem of the black art of key question. Is he not really arguing for a strict separation misinformation that the Whips operate so successfully. of powers? Ultimately, is not his point of contention For a new Member of Parliament, the Whips’ threat that he objects to the fusion of the Executive and the that their career will be over if they do not vote in a legislature? That seems to be the real point. certain way is enormously powerful. However, history suggests that completely the reverse is the case. Many Mr Bone: I am grateful for that intervention from, I people who have voted against the Whips on the most think, a Parliamentary Private Secretary. controversial matters are now Ministers—some are actually in the Cabinet. Mr Umunna: I am a former PPS and a shadow Minister. Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): I think that new Members are under a misapprehension. They think Mr Bone: A shadow Minister—somebody who is that if they ever vote against the Government, they will obviously going up the greasy pole. The hon. Gentleman not get into the Government. Actually, people get into asks a very reasonable question about the separation of the Government if they are good: if they are principled powers. Some Labour Members, such as the hon. Member and intelligent, and crack it at the Dispatch Box, they for Nottingham North (Mr Allen), argue strongly that will get in. They should be far more confident about there should be a complete separation of powers. I do that. not, but I argue that the danger of a total separation of powers comes if Parliament is not effective. I understand Mr Bone: My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. A the point that the hon. Member for Streatham yes-person who always agrees with the Whips will never (Mr Umunna) makes, but although my Bill would increase be a good Minister. A person has to have independent the separation of powers, it would stop their total thought to be a Minister. Some members of the Cabinet separation. voted against the Maastricht treaty—probably the most controversial issue for the Conservative party—and it Mr Umunna: Again, I take issue with what the hon. did not seem to do them any harm. Gentleman says, because it ignores developments in the House of Commons over the past few months. Look, Parliament was originally intended to act as a check for example, at how the Select Committee system has on the Executive, and to hold them properly to account, absolutely reasserted the scrutiny power of this place. but with the advent of the party and such concepts as Many would argue that the drift of the culture in this party loyalty and party manifestos, Members of Parliament place is towards much more scrutiny and less takeover who put their individual judgment to one side are by the Whips system. increasingly frequently—more often than not—treated by the Whips as little more than sheep. They are blindly herded into Division Lobbies and told to vote a particular Mr Bone: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. way on a subject that they know nothing about. Whips This is a totally different Parliament. There has been even have the nerve to divide the groups that they look huge progress by Parliament and the coalition. Now is after into flocks, because they regard them as sheep. the time to press for even more reform. The one group Sadly, Christopher Hollis MP had it precisely right of people who are absolutely opposed to any lessening when he said in 1946: of the Executive’s power are the Whips, because they see their whole job as getting the Executive’s through. “On most votes it would be simpler and more economic to This is an opportunity that we should not miss and may keep a flock of tame sheep and from time to time to drive them through the division lobbies in the appropriate number.” I say, as heartily as the hon. Member for Streatham does, that I acknowledge the huge improvements that the Government have made to parliamentary scrutiny? Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): I have great sympathy with what my hon. Friend says, and I was standing in Mr Hollobone: As the hon. Member for Streatham about this place when I first advocated abolishing whipping. (Mr Umunna) rightly states, Select Committees in this However, does he not agree that it is necessary to Parliament have more power and authority than they organise for votes, and that without whipping, or at did in the previous one, largely because of direct elections least some system of organisation, it would be very by all Members for their membership. However, there difficult for any Government to get their business through? have been retrograde steps such as the huge increase in the number of PPSs, which increases the Government’s Mr Bone: Unusually, I disagree with my hon. Friend. payroll vote and reduces the opportunity for Members If we go back to the years of Wilberforce, or the time of to scrutinise the Executive. the American civil war, Members of Parliament quite often campaigned and voted against the Executive’s Mr Bone: My hon. Friend is correct. Although we line. The Government would lose major pieces of legislation, may take two steps forward, we sometimes take one step but the Government did not fail; they carried on. That back. The Whips Office have found it difficult to deal was what Parliament was supposed to do. with the fact that their patronage has been taken away. They cannot appoint Select Committee Chairmen any Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): I am extremely more, so they have gone to a different camp and we have grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, particularly many more PPSs. We have probably got PPSs to PPSs—it as, I must confess, I was not here for the beginning of is getting to that stage. At any time, the Government his comments. Does he not acknowledge that in the can probably rely on 150 votes in the House. I regret 717 House of Commons Disqualification 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 House of Commons Disqualification 718 (Amendment) Bill (Amendment) Bill that control by the Executive over Parliament, and it Members of Parliament could not be Whips. Instances would help enormously if it were not possible for MPs of such behaviour abound and we all know several to be Whips. Members whose careers have been significantly affected Moving on to a more controversial part of an by the actions of the Whips Office. It is, sadly, a simple uncontroversial Bill, I shall describe the problems with fact of parliamentary life that even the size of the room the Whips Office. There is a story about a new Member a Member gets depends on how much they have pleased who went into the Labour Whips Office and said, the Whips. My hon. Friend the Member for Kettering is “Does it mean that we can’t beat people up any more?” still in a shoebox. That is probably an urban myth that has been widely As for disinformation, let me give the House an cited, but there are other stories that are clearly true and example, particularly in response to my hon. Friend the are much more worrying. In fact, not a single hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston). I know that Whips Member would deny that the Whips Office uses a whole deliberately misinformed hon. Members about the facts arsenal of weapons including patronage, flattery, relating to the new Backbench Business Committee by misinformation, which is highly effective, and the direct sending out an e-mail out that claimed the Committee threatening of parliamentary careers should the unfortunate always held its business on a Thursday and decided the victim of their attention not comply with their wishes. topic under discussion only a few days before. That was Occasionally, the operation of the Whips Office becomes sent out by the Whips as authoritative fact, although it public knowledge. Let us go back just a few weeks to was completely and utterly untrue. It was intended to June, when a Backbench Business Committee debate on rubbish the new Committee because that Committee wild animals in circuses dominated the news outlets. put business before the House that the Whips did not First, I must say that this reforming Government have want to see debated. set up the Backbench Business Committee which, for It is astonishing to think that in an age where employees the first time, has allowed Back Benchers to table business have more rights than ever before and workplace bullying in the House. We have 35 days per Session to allocate has, thankfully, become increasingly unacceptable, Members debates, which is a huge step forward in parliamentary are still treated in such a manner. If I were to treat my reform. It allows better scrutiny of the Executive and staff in this way for even an instant I would, quite allows issues that would not otherwise be heard to be rightly, be taken to an employment tribunal, yet it is debated on the Floor of the House. through these often underhand methods that Whips My hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin (Mark ensure that the Executive line is strictly obeyed, and Pritchard) secured a debate on wild animals in circuses. that the public are therefore denied the independent-minded Unfortunately, the Whips had not embraced the idea of Members of Parliament and, indeed, the Parliament non- Executive business or the notion that Parliament that they deserve. should take a view on the matter different from that of The situation is worse in coalition Governments, as the Executive. They still tried to influence my hon. Whips often force Members to vote in totally the opposite Friend with their normal bag of tricks: flattery, inducements way to what their party manifesto stated on issues that and threats. However, my courageous and independent they stood on at the last election. Although Liberal hon. Friend stuck to his guns and forced a change to Members signed a pledge before the last election not to Government policy. He said in the Chamber: increase tuition fees, they were forced by their Whips to “I am not going to kowtow to the Whips or even the Prime do completely the opposite when they were in government. Minister of my country on an issue that I feel passionately about Equally, Conservative Members who stood on a platform and on which I have conviction.” —[Official Report,23June opposing the alternative vote were forced by the Whips 2011; Vol. 530, c. 548.] to vote for a Bill on a referendum for the alternative He also said that MPs should show “a bit of spine” and vote system. that he would not be bullied. Let me give a personal example of Whips’ tactics. In The result of my hon. Friend’s bold stand was that the last parliamentary term, on 30 March 2011, a Whip the Government caved in and allowed a free vote on his sent out an e-mail, which I will read out: motion, which was overwhelmingly endorsed by the “I regret to have to inform colleagues that we are all required House of Commons. As my hon. Friend the Member tonight after 7pm on a strict 3-line whip with respect to a Motion for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) said, it produced better by the Leader of the House to which an amendment has been tabled by Mr Peter Bone and others so it is now votable. Unless legislation as a result. you have previously been slipped by me, your presence is required.” The e-mail was sent out to every Conservative Member Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): If I remember of Parliament. Not only did it cause great embarrassment, correctly, there was no vote that day. Am I right in my but it was factually incorrect and misleading—another recollection? example of misinformation. The e-mail received an understandably negative response from my colleagues, Mr Bone: My hon. Friend is not quite correct. The including a Minister who had to return from an important Question on the motion was put, but because nobody meeting because of the Whip’s action. After I contacted expressed dissent, it was carried by the collection of many of my colleagues and explained the true situation, voices. Many of us who returned especially to vote on they were appalled that the Whips had ever sent out that were delighted that there was no opposition. such an e-mail. What was so outrageous was that the My argument about that day is that the Whips should Whip was trying to influence Members of Parliament not have attempted to influence support for the actions about a matter relating to House of Commons business of my hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin, as the which was of no concern to the Executive and entirely debate was Back-Bench business. The Whips should the responsibility of Parliament. Of course, though, simply have butted out. The Bill would make it impossible that is insignificant compared with some of the other for such pressure to be applied in the future because episodes in which the Whips have involved themselves. 719 House of Commons Disqualification 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 House of Commons Disqualification 720 (Amendment) Bill (Amendment) Bill [Mr Bone] committees. In my party, it is the 1922 committee. The Labour party has the PLP. It channels views back to the That is not to say that all Whips behave in such a leadership, and I do not see why that function needs to manner, and nor is it to say—this is a response to an be duplicated by the Whips. The role of the Whips earlier intervention—that the Whips do not perform could be made redundant quite easily. The public are useful functions, but it is the Whips Office that performs crying out for a change in how Parliament operates: those useful functions. We do not need Members of they want less power given to the Executive and they Parliament to be Whips. We can get civil servants, who want Members who represent their views and use their are currently employed in the Whips Office anyway, to own judgment, rather than acting as Lobby fodder to carry out the administrative necessities. There is nothing rubber-stamp the decisions of the Executive and blindly that the Whips do that could not be done by civil following the leadership’s view without even knowing servants, if there was a business of the House committee. what a Bill is about. The only thing left for them to do would be the strong- arming tactics of trying to tell people how to vote. The Government’s recent initiative on debating and voting on e-petitions demonstrates their wish for a Dr Wollaston rose— stronger Parliament and more scrutiny. Well done, again, to the Government! However, if these petitions are to Mr Nuttall rose— be successful, there must be no whipping. What is the point of introducing an e-petition to Parliament that Mr Bone: Oh, ladies first. hundreds of thousands of people have signed, if the decision is to be made not by individual Members of Dr Wollaston: I thank my hon. Friend. In these Parliament using their own judgment, but by Members challenging financial times, has he estimated how much following the party Whip? I hope that e-petitions, at this would cost the taxpayer, and does he think that it least for Government Members, will be subject to free votes. would deliver value for money? The public want Members of Parliament who take their time to understand the issues being debated, who Mr Bone: My hon. Friend hits on a good point that I vote according to their conscience and who have at least am going to deal with a little later. Clearly, though, the some independence of spirit. Therefore, despite the system does not provide value for money at the moment. recent scandals—or perhaps because of them—Parliament needs to be strengthened. I argue strongly that my Bill Mr Nuttall: The Whips Office would submit that it would benefit our democracy hugely, by ensuring a performs another function—a pastoral role for Members proper separation of the Executive and Parliament of Parliament. Does my hon. Friend agree that that role while still keeping part of the Executive in Parliament. could be undertaken by the parties—for example, by The danger of not doing so is that we would end up the parliamentary Labour party or the 1922 committee? with a US-style settlement, as some hon. Members Does he think that they could perform that pastoral want, where the Executive are outside Parliament. role? However—to address the point that my hon. Friend Mr Bone: My hon. Friend raises an important point the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) made—that that has been used as the sole argument for keeping the would not be the only benefit; there would also be a Whips Office. If a Member of Parliament is suffering huge benefit to the British economy. The public, having from a problem with which they need serious help, the followed recent events, have become increasingly irritated last person they will want to go to is their Whip. Their at the scale of expenditure in Parliament. By abolishing party might even be the last people they would want to the Whips’ positions, we would be saving approximately go to. Instead, they would want to see an independent £6.5 million per Parliament in ministerial salaries—a professional, and such a person should be available in quite astonishing amount. One of the reasons, the the House of Commons. It would be a huge improvement, Executive say, why the number of MPs is being cut is to not a setback. save money. Alongside the well-thought-out plans to reduce the number of Members, surely we should at Mr Umunna: Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that least make some effort to reduce the size of government we put in place a system of counselling for Members of as well. It should be remembered that Whips are in fact Parliament? Ministers. By getting rid of Whips, we would be reducing the number of Ministers; we would, in fact, be supporting Mr Bone: Now Madam Deputy Speaker—no, I am smaller and better government. not going down that route. I am saying that professional help should be made available, as it is in any other Although I like to think that my argument about organisation, through human resources, for people having preserving the democratic heritage of Parliament is serious problems. We all know that if we were in a big enough to win the day, I understand that there are those company, there would be somebody in that company who feel that, as my hon. Friend the Member for who would either provide professional advice or get us Wycombe (Steve Baker) said, nothing would get done if to the right person, but we do not seem to have that in parties did not organise their Members sufficiently strongly. the House of Commons. Given the enormous pressure In other words, business would not go through the we are all under, that is rather surprising. House and everything would grind to a halt. I say that Another argument for the Whips Office is that it we should look to the other place. Of course the other channels the views of Members of Parliament back to place has parties too—it also has Cross Benchers—but the leadership. Well, it certainly does that! But, of its Members are far more independently minded and course, all the parties have vocal and successful Back-Bench far more likely to vote against the party Whip, and yet 721 House of Commons Disqualification 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 House of Commons Disqualification 722 (Amendment) Bill (Amendment) Bill nobody would seriously suggest that this Chamber does Bill, in that I was Parliamentary Private Secretary to my a better job of scrutinising legislation than the other right hon. Friend the Member for Bristol South (Dawn Chamber. Primarolo) in her previous incarnation as a Minister, a rebel on the Government Back Benches and then a Mr Umunna rose— poacher turned gamekeeper as a Whip. I was therefore interested to hear what the hon. Gentleman said today. Mr Bone: Let me just finish this point. The Bill would have the effect of disqualifying all If the other place improves scrutiny by having less Government Whips, the Opposition Chief Whip and whipping, surely having no whipping would improve the assistant Opposition Whips from membership of our legislation enormously. [Interruption.] Has the hon. the House. Interestingly, it does not seek to disqualify Gentleman now been advised by his Whip not to intervene? the Opposition deputy Chief Whip or the third person in the Opposition Whips Office who receives a salary Mr Umunna: No. I simply wanted to make the point and who is usually, but not always, the pairing Whip. I that the other place has Whips too. assume that those people would be left here to run amok and do as they wished. Meanwhile, the Opposition Mr Bone: Indeed it does, but I am abolishing those as assistant Whips, who are not paid, would be subject to well. The hon. Gentleman should not worry about that; disqualification. there is no problem there. The problem with the Bill is not simply that it is In concluding my opening remarks— defective, but that it is wrong in its intent. It is bizarre, at a time of growing pressure on Ministers to become Mr Chope: Before my hon. Friend finishes, let me say more accountable to Parliament, that the hon. Gentleman that I am absolutely delighted with his speech. I am sure should seek to ensure that one group of Ministers that my decision not to go any further with the National should no longer be accountable to Parliament at all. Health Service Redress (Amendment) Bill was a wise That is what his Bill states, although of course that is one, because otherwise we would have been deprived of not his real intention. His real aim, as he stated very his contribution. Does he think that his Bill could be clearly, is to get rid of Whips altogether. Most of his summed up as a deregulatory Bill, replacing regulation argument seems to be based on fictional characters with self-regulation? from “Yes, Prime Minister” and on a strange belief that people who have fought to become Members of Parliament Mr Bone: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and as by scrambling over everyone else to get selected and usual he is at one with the Prime Minister in wanting elected are so wet that one word from their Whip will deregulation. turn them into quivering wrecks who will do exactly as they are told. That is just wrong. Let me finish by quoting the words of a man who has the best interests of our democracy and our country at MPs may choose to break the Whip. That is a choice heart. This man said: that many in this House have had to make on occasions, “We will give the House of Commons more control over its and sensible people know that, if they do that, consequences own timetable so there is proper time for scrutiny and debate. We will follow. We cannot have everything in this life. I will make MPs more independent, with more free votes so that remember being threatened with the loss of my career, they can vote as they wish and not as they’re told to.” which was not much of a threat as I did not have a Those are words of our new Prime Minister, uttered in career to threaten at the time—it took me 11 years in 2009 in his powerful speech about rebuilding the connection this House to become a promising newcomer—but that between Parliament and the people. He has already is the price we pay if we break the Whip. We are all done much by giving us the Backbench Business Committee, grown-ups, and we know the price. ensuring the election of Select Committee Chairmen More importantly, we are also products of a party and promising to set up a business of the House committee political system. When the hon. Gentleman goes back by 2013. I am moving the Second Reading of this Bill to his constituency, the people there know that he today to help the Prime Minister achieve his aims. represents the Conservative party—at least for some of the time. Similarly, the people in my constituency know 2.19 pm that I am a Labour Member of Parliament. I assume that, like me, he stood for election on his party’s manifesto. Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): I congratulate The party political system in this country is frequently the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) on denigrated, but I want to make an argument for it, getting his Bill debated and on the characteristically because it gives people at least a general idea of what entertaining way in which he has discussed it. I think they are voting for—unless they support the Liberal the only person that we did not hear mentioned was Democrats, in which case they usually get the opposite Mrs Bone, so, as we have not heard about her for a long of what they vote for. This is not to say that politicians time, I want to send her our best wishes before moving do not have to react to events or that the manifesto on to the substance of the Bill. I shall also try to be brief covers every eventuality, but, in broad terms, party because I know that the Deputy Leader of the House politics defines common approaches to problems. There wants to speak as well, although there is much to be is a good argument for greater scrutiny in the House, said. particularly on the Report stages of Bills, but if that is It was entertaining to hear of the cowing effect that what the hon. Gentleman wants, he should concentrate the Whips seem to have on those on the Tory Benches. not on the whipping system but on the timetable. When I was a Labour Whip, it did not seem to work like I repeat that Members of Parliament are not sheep. It that at all; the situation was quite the reverse, in fact. I was certainly not a word that we used when I was in the am peculiarly qualified to discuss the hon. Gentleman’s Whips Office. My right hon. Friend the Member for 723 House of Commons Disqualification 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 724 (Amendment) Bill [Helen Jones] I have just enough time to say how much I respect the right hon. Member for Derbyshire Dales (Mr McLoughlin), Newcastle upon Tyne East (Mr Brown), the Chief Whip my right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and under whom I served, referred to the parliamentary Shetland (Mr Carmichael) and the right hon. Member Labour party as “the body of the kirk”. He used to tell for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Mr Randall) and their us to get out among the body of the kirk, not the flock. team. Working with them in the past 18 months has The hon. Member for Wellingborough should not been an absolute pleasure—an unexpected pleasure, pretend that we do not have party politics in this because I did not know the extent of the co-operation country. The alternative to party politics is a system and sensitivity that I could expect from the Parliamentary based on personalities. I do not mean that Members of Secretary to the Treasury, the Comptroller of Her Majesty’s Parliament do not have personalities—I have been a Household and the Treasurer of Her Majesty’s Household. Member of Parliament long enough to know that they The understanding of and fellow feeling for Back do, and the hon. Gentleman is a fine example of that. Benchers that they have shown have been a revelation to However, systems that are based on personalities, not me, and they were clearly recognised by the hon. Member parties, tend to lead inexorably to campaigns that are for Wellingborough, who has not been cajoled, threatened based on personal wealth. The reason for that is simple. or bullied but has, by a simple process of persuasion, People seldom get elected to the House as independents found himself able to accept the advice of the Parliamentary without personal wealth, although there have been one Secretary to the Treasury— or two notable exceptions. The long-term effect of the Bill would be to move us 2.30 pm in precisely the opposite direction to the one that most The debate stood adjourned (Standing Order No. 11(2)). of us wish to take—it would lead to the politics of Ordered, That the debate be resumed on Friday personality rather than politics based on issues. We have 21 October. already gone too far in that direction, and we should move away from it, not towards it. Business without Debate I listened to the hon. Gentleman’s comments with great amusement, and I feel terribly sorry for Tory Back Benchers if they are so frightened by their Whips, but I REPORTING OF INJURIES, DISEASES AND cannot support the Bill. DANGEROUS OCCURRENCES REGULATION BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second 2.26 pm time. The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of Hon. Members: Object. the House of Commons (Mr David Heath): I am delighted Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November. at least to start to respond to the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) and his Bill. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) ALCOHOL MARKETING BILL for her comments. She said that she was a rebel against Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second her Whips before being dragooned into their service. I time. suppose that I have a similar background in that I fear that I did not endear myself to my then Whips over the Hon. Members: Object. Lisbon treaty, but I seem to have recovered at least some Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 21 October. favour with the party since then. I am grateful for the way in which the hon. Gentleman NATIONAL PARK AUTHORITIES BILL introduced the Bill, because he went out of his way to express his admiration and gratitude to our colleagues Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second who form the current Whips team. He also justifiably time. made a great deal of the Government’s progress in Hon. Members: Object. re-enfranchising Parliament and making it more effective and more able to look after its interests rather than Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November. simply being the instrument of the Executive. One of the abiding features of recent Parliaments was restrictions, ROAD SAFETY BILL not only on the House’s structures, but through timetabling. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Having lived through 13 years of a Labour Government, time. knowing exactly what happened then, and given the comparative freedom we now have to consider legislation, Hon. Members: Object. I was amazed to hear the hon. Member for Warrington Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November. North talk about the time available for Bills. There have been genuine improvements. As the hon. Member for Wellingborough has said, one such SECURED LENDING REFORM BILL improvement goes beyond anything else—the creation Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second of the Backbench Business Committee, on which he time. serves with such distinction. There is also the promise of more to come, such as our commitment as a Government Hon. Members: Object. to introduce a full business of the House Committee. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 September. 725 Business without Debate9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Business without Debate 726

SAFETY OF MEDICINES BILL HEALTH AND SAFETY CONSULTANTS Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second (QUALIFICATIONS) BILL time. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. Hon. Members: Object. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 21 October. Hon. Members: Object. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November. CARERS AND EMPLOYMENT BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second TRIBUNALS (MAXIMUM COMPENSATION time. AWARDS) BILL Resumption of adjourned debate on Question (17 June), Hon. Members: Object. That the Bill be now read a Second time. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 3 February 2012. Hon. Members: Object. Debate to be resumed on Friday 25 November. ACTIVITY CENTRES (YOUNG PERSONS’ SAFETY) (AMENDMENT) BILL PUBLIC BODIES (DISPOSAL OF ASSETS) BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. time. Hon. Members: Object. Hon. Members: Object. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November.

LOW HAZARD WORKPLACES (RISK ASSESSMENT EXEMPTION) BILL VOLUNTEERING BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Resumption of adjourned debate on Question (10 June), time. That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object. Hon. Members: Object. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November. Debate to be resumed on Friday 25 November.

SELF-EMPLOYMENT (RISK ASSESSMENT MEDICAL INSURANCE (PENSIONER TAX EXEMPTION) BILL RELIEF) BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. time.

Hon. Members: Object. Hon. Members: Object. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 25 November. 727 9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Croydon City Status Bid 728

Croydon City Status Bid to be sent to those responsible; and above all, the renewed sense of pride in our town, that this is our Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House home, that it has a lot going for it and that we will not do now adjourn.—(James Duddridge.) less the wreckers win. That is why I am here today. If the granting of city 2.34 pm status were just an ego boost for the local council, it Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): I am grateful would not be worth fighting for, but that is not what this for the opportunity to make the case for Croydon to be is about. It is about getting long overdue recognition of granted city status. Before I begin, let me apologise to Croydon’s true status and, even more important, about the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. raising its profile and giving the town a much needed Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), boost as we rebuild. for detaining him here in Westminster when he would So what is our case? The Department for Culture, obviously prefer to be on his way to the constituency Media and Sport website is wonderfully vague about that he serves with such distinction. I know that, in the grounds on which Her Majesty will make the decision. replying to my speech, he will not be able to comment It points out that city status has never on the merits or otherwise of my case. The decision is ultimately one for Her Majesty. I know too that he has “been a right to be claimed by places fulfilling a list of criteria”, already replied to other debates attended by hon. Members but it does refer to age, history and associations with representing what I would argue are less well qualified royalty, so I will start there. towns, so I hope that it is some consolation that he did Croydon sits in a valley between the Crystal Palace not have to prepare a fresh speech for today’s debate. escarpment and the northern slopes of the north downs. Croydon is not just the town that I represent in the There is evidence that the valley was inhabited during House; it is my home. My parents moved there when I the bronze age, with a barrow on the top of Croham was a few months old and I have lived there ever since. Hurst, and that it was occupied in Roman times, but the Perverse as it may sound to those who know Croydon name Croydon is almost certainly of Anglo-Saxon origin by reputation only, I cannot think of a better place to meaning “valley of the crocus”. It is due south of live. It is part of the greatest city in the world, but it is London and just north of a natural gap in the north also a city, in all but name at the moment, in its own downs, and hence it became a natural stopping off right. It is 15 minutes from central London and on the point on the route from London to the south coast. doorstep of the beautiful north downs. It has great schools, libraries, shops, theatres, restaurants and bars, In 871, the King granted Aethelred, the Archbishop a rich history and above all a wonderful mix of people of Canterbury, a charter for land in what is now Old who have come from all over the world to make the Town and that began a long association between Croydon place their home. and the See of Canterbury. The Domesday Book records Archbishop Lanfranc as the lord of the manor in 1086, I have had the privilege of representing Croydon in which then consisted of a church, a mill and 365 people. this House only for just over a year. I am, therefore, as In 1276, King Edward I granted a charter for a weekly they would say in America, very much the junior MP market and that spurred the development of the town. for Croydon. My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon By the 16th century, the manor house had become a South (Richard Ottaway) and the right hon. Member large palace that was the summer residence of the for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) have both represented Archbishops of Canterbury. A number of monarchs, the town for nearly 20 years. Neither is able to be here including Henry VII, Henry VIII, Mary and Elizabeth today, but they have both asked me to put on the record I, are known to have visited the palace. their support for the case that I am making. In 1781, the palace was sold—parts of it survive Over the summer, Croydon has been in the news for today as Old Palace of John Whitgift school—and a all the wrong reasons. One month ago yesterday, a few new palace was built at Addington, whose grounds were hundred people, many of them, it is now clear, not from landscaped by Capability Brown. That continued as the Croydon, looted businesses and set fire to historic buildings summer home of Archbishops until 1898. In total, along London road and the Purley way, and in Old 11 Archbishops are buried in Croydon, either in Greater Town, south Croydon and New Addington. Of course, London’s only Minster, next to the old palace, or at we were not the only part of the United Kingdom to St Mary’s church in Addington village. witness such behaviour, but many will long remember the images of that night: the House of Reeves furniture Archbishop John Whitgift left a particular mark on story burning, and Monika Konczyk jumping from a the town. He petitioned Elizabeth I for permission to first-floor window were images of my town. set up a hospital and school for the “poor, needy and The damage—the historic buildings that were destroyed, impotent”. In 1599, the hospital of the Holy Trinity was the blow to the town’s reputation or the simple knowledge completed and it survives today at the centre of the that living among us are a tiny minority who chose to town as the almhouses, run by a charitable foundation do such things to their own town—cannot be undone, named after John Whitgift which also runs three schools, but set against that damage are the positives that have a residential home and a nursing home. I should declare emerged from the ashes at Reeves Corner and on the an interest: I am a governor of that charity. Her Majesty London road: the thousands of people who helped with visited the almshouses on 21 June 1983. the clean-up or gave money to help businesses to rebuild; The spur for the transformation of Croydon from the dedication of the public servants who have housed small Surrey market town to the heart of south London, the homeless, put out the fires, identified the guilty and which is what it is today, was the development of the brought them to justice; the way in which our courts railways. In 1803, the Surrey Iron railway from Wandsworth have reflected public sentiment that a clear message has to Croydon opened; it was the world’s first public 729 Croydon City Status Bid9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Croydon City Status Bid 730 railway. It was followed by the London and Croydon short, it is one of the best connected places in the railway linking London Bridge and West Croydon in country, with a similar number of people coming into 1831, and the London, Brighton and South Coast railway Croydon each day to work as the number commuting in 1860. That led to a population explosion with a out to London. 23-fold increase in population between 1801 and 1901 Another characteristic that one expects of a city is and Croydon’s incorporation as a borough in 1883. that it is a public services hub. There are more than Croydon also played a key role in the development of 155 schools in the borough, including some outstanding air travel. It was home to London’s main airport from state schools such as Coloma and the Harris Academy 1920 until 1952 and was the first place in the world to in Crystal Palace, which was one of the first city technology use air traffic control. Amy Johnson embarked on her colleges. There are also some outstanding independent historic solo flight to Australia from Croydon. The schools. I referred earlier to the Whitgift Foundation town also played a key role in world war two. Croydon and its three schools, Whitgift, Trinity and Old Palace. airport was the target of the first German raid on the There is also the Al-Khair school, a high-performing capital, and it was from Croydon—Kenley airfield in Islamic school. There is the BRIT school of performing the south of the borough and Biggin Hill just over the arts, too, whose graduates include Adele, Amy Winehouse, border in what is now Bromley—that “the few” took to Jessie J, Katie Melua and Leona Lewis. Croydon College the skies to defend our country during its “darkest is one of largest further education colleges in the south-east, hour.” The town suffered substantial damage in the war and is shortly hoping to open a university centre so that and afterwards twinned with Arnhem in Holland, which young people in south London can get a degree from had suffered similarly during Operation Market Garden. the University of Sussex while studying at home and The 1950s and 1960s was a time of great rebuilding, paying tuition fees well below the level that many universities with skyscrapers, a flyover and an underpass leading to are now charging. We have an excellent hospital in the “mini-Manhattan” nickname and giving the town Croydon university hospital and the third busiest public its current form and character. library in the UK. There is much more to Croydon than many people Another feature that marks out cities is outstanding know, therefore: Anglo-Saxon origins and a strong leisure facilities. Indeed, the Government guidelines say: association with the See of Canterbury and royalty, as “Ministers take the view that the places to be honoured with well as being a key location in the development of the city status…should have supplied convincing evidence of their railways and aviation, and playing an important role in ability to welcome people into their areas and to provide, promote the second world war. Being a city, however, is about or facilitate access to a wide variety of places, activities and more than just having a rich history. The “Oxford events.” English Dictionary” tells us that a city is: Croydon is home to Fairfield halls, one of the best “A title ranking above that of ‘town’.” concert halls in the country. Fairfield halls is the home Although a few places that have been granted city of the London Mozart players, an outstanding chamber status in the past are fairly small today, most cities have orchestra whose patron is His Royal Highness Prince large populations. On that test, Croydon is clearly best Edward. A mark of the repute of the concert hall is the qualified of all the applicants. It is home to more than fact that over the past five years, people have purchased 340,000 people—more than in Belfast, Cardiff, Coventry, tickets from Fairfield halls from all but two of the main Newcastle, Nottingham or Southampton. Indeed, of postcodes across the United Kingdom. This is not just a the 66 existing UK cities, only nine have a larger population local venue for people in south London but one that than Croydon. It is as big as Bilbao or Nice; indeed, we people from across the country frequent. We also have believe it to be the largest town in the whole of western the Warehouse theatre, which puts on its own shows Europe. and has an annual playwright festival. Croydon is the home of dubstep music, a new genre of music that was People also think of cities as commercial hubs, and created there. Croydon has more than 8 million square feet of office space and more than 10,000 employers. It is home to We also have outstanding green spaces, parks and dozens of blue-chip companies, including Nestlé, Mott open spaces. Ten parks in Croydon have been awarded MacDonald, BT, Barclays and AIG, and the local authority the prestigious green flag award and the Royal Horticultural has the fifth highest business rate yield in the country. Society recently voted us the UK’s greenest “large city”. That gives some feel of the scope of the business centre. In sports, Croydon is home to Crystal Palace football club—south London’s greatest team—although at the Croydon is also a huge transport hub. There are moment, sad to say, that is not necessarily the greatest 17 main line stations in the borough. The key station is accolade. Surrey county cricket club play some of their East Croydon, from which there are 27 million journeys games at Whitgift school and just on our border we annually, making it the fourth busiest station in the have Crystal Palace national sports centre. country outside central London. Croydon is within a 15-minute journey of the west end and the City of There is more than 2.5 million square feet of prime London, and has excellent connections to Gatwick retail space in the town, £1 billion of annual retail airport and the south coast by rail. Under our Mayor of turnover and more than 800 restaurants, bars and clubs. London, the East London line extension was recently On all the tests of the town’s being a hub for retail, completed, adding Croydon to the tube map and giving employment, transport and public services, Croydon excellent connections to the docklands. Croydon is also clearly passes. set apart from some of the other applicants, in that it is Another test for a city is a thriving voluntary sector. a transport hub in a number of ways. The tram system There are several thousand voluntary groups in Croydon that was opened in 2000 connects large areas of south and some 50,000 people give time as volunteers each London, with Croydon at the hub, and there are more year. I want to take a moment to name a few of the than 28 million journeys a year on that network. In groups that are active in my part of the town and that 731 Croydon City Status Bid9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Croydon City Status Bid 732

[Gavin Barwell] addressed and the same is true of our town. We suffer from congestion, and recent events a month ago do a wonderful job. We have a huge range of local demonstrated the problems of gang culture that we residents’ associations but I want to single out in particular need to tackle as a community. Also, much of our 1950s the work done by “People for Portland Road” for the and 1960s architecture and urban planning is now in community in south London and the new pathfinders need of renewal. The council has great plans in place to group that has been set forward to take forward the address all those problems, but it is important to put regeneration of New Addington. them on the record. There are also all sorts of service-based local voluntary I hope it is clear from what I have said thus far that groups. Like many towns, we have a thriving Crossroads Croydon is a city in all but name and that if it were not a group and a week on Sunday I will be doing a walk part of London it would formally have been made one around my constituency boundaries to try to raise some years ago. It is on this rock that past bids for city status money for that excellent charity, which provided outstanding have failed. We are part of London so how can we apply help to my family when my father was sick with Alzheimer’s to be a city ourselves? Let me make it clear to my hon. disease. There are also many voluntary groups that Friend that this bid is not a declaration of independence support the diverse communities we have in our town. I from London. We are proud to be part of our great recently had the pleasure of going to the annual celebrations capital city, but we also believe that we are more than of the Kerala cultural and welfare association, which just a suburb of London: we are a city in our right provides support to the strong Keralese community in within the world’s greatest city. London already has two our borough. cities—the City of London and the City of Westminster— One clue that the Government’s guidelines give is that and it seems to me that there is no reason why it the successful applicant should have a “vibrant, welcoming cannot have a third. The Mayor of London agrees. community”. Croydon clearly passes that test. People He says: from all over the world have chosen to make it their “My ambition for London to continue to dominate world home, nearly 40% of the population is from a black or enterprise would certainly be furthered by the addition of a third minority ethnic community and more than 100 languages city, and having this at the heart of south London would bring are spoken in the borough. All of the world’s major much needed investment south of the river Thames”. faiths are practised in the town. What was until recently We believe that we meet the key test in the Government Croydon parish church, which was rebuilt in 1870 by guidelines of having a “distinct identity”. Look out on the great Victorian architect Sir George Gilbert Scott, south London from the top of the Crystal Palace was recently dedicated as Greater London’s only minster escarpment and Croydon literally stands out. It is a hub in recognition of the wider role the church plays not just for south London and the near south-east—a city in its in Croydon parish but across south London. There is own right on the edge of a larger city, similar to Jersey also Croydon masjid and Islamic centre and several city’s relationship with New York. other mosques, several Hindu temples, a synagogue and That then is our case. Croydon is rich in history, is Croydon gurdwara. larger than most existing cities and is a centre for Croydon has more young people than any other employment, shopping, public services and leisure facilities. London borough and it is home to people of all It is one of the best connected places in the country and backgrounds, with some of London’s most deprived is a vibrant place that is home to people from all over neighbourhoods and also, in the Webb estate and Shirley the world with a strong sense of community. It is not Hills, some of its most expensive housing. There is a without problems but is brimming with potential; it is sharp contrast among the northern districts of Norbury, part of the world’s greatest city but is clearly a city in its South Norwood and Thornton Heath, with their densely own right. On 17 August, His Royal Highness Prince packed Victorian and Edwardian residential streets, the Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall visited the town southern areas of Shirley, Selsdon, Sanderstead, Purley, to see the damage done by rioters, and their visit was Kenley and Coulsdon with their commuter-belt semi- deeply appreciated. Early next year, Her Majesty will detached and detached homes, and the town of New have the chance to help us in our recovery by recognising Addington, which I am hugely proud to represent, built my home town for what it is—London’s third city. on top of the north downs after the second world war as homes for returning heroes. 2.52 pm Taken together, these four factors make Croydon a The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark diverse, vibrant place to live which is, or has been, home Harper): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for to people such as business man Sir Philip Green, model Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell) on securing the debate Kate Moss, artist Tracey Emin, film director Sir David and I thank him for his kind words at the beginning. Lean, composer Samuel Coleridge Taylor, footballer Rather than being a chore to be here, it is a great Ian Wright, Wilfred Wood, Britain’s first black bishop, pleasure to listen to him set out the case for his home and a former Speaker of this House, Lord Weatherill, town. As he said, he follows our hon. Friends the who represented Croydon for 28 years with great distinction. Members for Reading West (Alok Sharma), for Southend People often talk about the country, or parts of it, being West (Mr Amess) and for Gillingham and Rainham tolerant, but toleration is not the right word in this (Rehman Chishti) in securing an opportunity to set out context. I do not tolerate the fact that people have come the case for their areas’ hopes of winning city status in from all over the world to make it their home—I celebrate the diamond jubilee competition for civic honours. I it and think it is one of the great strengths of our town. learned many things in those debates and I have learned As well as having a lot going for them, cities often many things about his area today. I know that you, also have problems—urban living is not perfect. Most Madam Deputy Speaker, have chaired these debates cities around the world have issues that need to be before and I suspect that both you and I will be here 733 Croydon City Status Bid9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Croydon City Status Bid 734 again as other hon. Members seek to make the case for Some are large, some small. Some have conspicuously their areas. In that process, we learn about our United attractive and well laid out city centres; that applies less Kingdom. to others. Some have wonderful cathedrals, universities, I confirm that Croydon’s entry into the diamond airports, underground systems or trams; some do not, jubilee competition for civic honours has been safely but boast a vibrant cultural life. We have described received. It is one of 25 entries seeking city status and some of the criteria and qualities that we would expect there are also 12 entries seeking lord mayoralty status a new city to have. My hon. Friend set out some of for existing cities. The level of interest and enthusiasm them: a vibrant, welcoming community, an interesting in the competition shows how much the country is history and a distinct identity. looking forward to celebrating Her Majesty’s diamond My hon. Friend set out his and Croydon’s case very jubilee in 2012 and how attractive these civic honours well. He reminded us that Croydon Central—his are to local communities. I know that my hon. Friend constituency—and Croydon are not just his constituency, understands, as do other hon. Members, that I cannot which he has represented since the general election, but possibly endorse Croydon’s aspirations, just as I had also his home, which I believe he represented as a to remain neutral in those other debates. Ministers have councillor for a considerable time. From his speech it to remain impartial to ensure that city status continues was obvious that he knows his town very well, and will to be a real honour that is fairly bestowed and to ensure continue to represent it very well in the House. I can that the diamond jubilee competition continues to be a assure him and his constituents, and all those in the rest real competition. Fairness is crucial because, as my hon. of the town, that Croydon’s entry will receive a thorough, Friend said, there are no hard and fast criteria for impartial appraisal of its merits alongside the other becoming a city. It is an honour granted by the sovereign, entries. The assessment process in the competition is nowadays following a competition, as a rare mark of under way, and the plan is to announce the results early distinction for an area. Reasons for success or failure next year, at the start of Her Majesty’s diamond jubilee are never given, and city status is not, and never has year. been, something that towns can claim by just ticking off Question put and agreed to. a list of hard and fast criteria. The reason for that is fairly obvious. Any attempt to draw up a list of criteria to capture 2.56 pm the nature of existing UK cities would run into difficulties. House adjourned.

29WS Written Ministerial Statements9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 30WS

The armed forces remain committed to ensuring that Written Ministerial the training they provide is both efficient and effective, recognising the need to continuously evaluate what Statements works well and areas that need improvement. Ofsted inspection suggests that review processes in training establishments are improving and in one location the Friday 9 September 2011 overall effect is judged to be “outstanding”. We need to continue to provide effective training in the face of resource and operational pressures, while TREASURY providing a supportive training environment that enables instructors to bring out the best in young recruits and Anti-Avoidance (Tax Treaties) trainees without lessening the tough nature of armed forces training. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke): On 1 August HMRC published for consultation a technical note and draft legislation outlining a proposed FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE approach to combating tax avoidance arrangements which exploit the provisions of double taxation agreements (DTAs). The responses so far received have made it General Affairs Council (12 September) clear that the proposed legislation, as drafted, could cause significant uncertainty for compliant UK businesses and overseas investors about its intended scope and its The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): The practical effect. General Affairs Council will meet in Brussels on The Government are committed to providing certainty 12 September. I will attend. to taxpayers and acknowledge the concerns raised in I will deposit the provisional records of the Foreign the responses to the consultation. They have therefore Affairs Council and General Affairs Council in the decided not to proceed further with the consultation on Library of the House when they are issued by the the proposed legislation and will not include it in the Council secretariat. I will issue a written ministerial Finance Bill 2012. statement in slower time, with the Government’s assessment The Government will continue to challenge specific of the debate at the Council. arrangements that clearly seek to abuse provisions in a GENERAL AFFAIRS COUNCIL (GAC) DTA. This decision reaffirms the Government’s commitment Next Multiannual Financial Framework to open and transparent consultation and demonstrates The presidency intends to present the outcome of the the value of consultation. The Government’s approach discussion held by the Friends of Presidency group. set out in their tax consultation framework has been This is a Committee of officials from the member states, widely welcomed by business and others as providing a with attendance from the Commission, to prepare much improved basis for developing new legislation. If and discuss aspects of the next multiannual financial the Government conclude in the future that alternative framework. The Commission proposals (linked here— approaches for legislating against treaty abuse are necessary, http://ec.europa.eu/budget/reform/ were published in June they will consult on these alternatives in line with the 2011 and are unacceptable to the UK. The UK Government tax consultation framework. have been clear that, at a time of ongoing economic fragility in Europe and tight constraints on domestic Banking Act 2009 (Reporting) public spending, the Commission’s proposal for the multiannual financial framework is unrealistic. It is too large; it is not the restrained budget the Commission The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark claims and it is incompatible with the tough decisions Hoban): The Treasury has laid before the House of being taken in countries across Europe. The negotiations Commons a report required under section 231 of the are at a very early stage and discussion is expected to be Banking Act 2009 covering the period from 1 October general. 2010 to 31 March 2011. Copies of the document are Following the GAC, Ministers will have an orientation available in the Vote Office. debate during lunch. This will be an opportunity to discuss general issues such as how the budget operates/ DEFENCE functions, in particular the structure of the budget— this means how the budget headings are set out, for example what level of flexibility there should be to Ofsted Report (Armed Forces Initial Training 2010-11) move funds between envelopes. The discussion will also touch on the macro-economic assumptions upon The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence which the Commission’s figures are based, that is; (Mr Andrew Robathan): Today Ofsted publishes its third assumptions about growth, GDP and the rate of inflation. report on welfare and duty of care in armed forces There will also be discussion of emergency funds, such initial training, copies of which have been placed in the as the emergency aid reserve, and how these funds Library of the House. Following visits to 11 armed operate. forces initial training establishments, Ofsted reports I will place particular emphasis, during my that recruits and trainees feel that their welfare needs interventions, on the principle that the budget should be are met and well supported. transparent. 31WS Written Ministerial Statements9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 32WS

Economic Governance JUSTICE The presidency will update the Council regarding the “six pack”of legislative proposals for economic governance proposed by the Commission to implement the recommendations of President Van Rompuy’s economic Personal Injury Cases (Referral Fees) taskforce (his report is linked here— http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms data/docs/pressdata/ en/ec/117236.pdf. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice The six recommendations from the Commission called (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): I am today announcing the for a strengthening of both the preventive and corrective Government’s intention to ban referral fees in personal arm of the existing stability and growth pact, including injury cases. This complements our wider plans for civil new regulations to formalise sanctions for eurozone litigation funding and costs, including fundamental reforms countries; provided for new regulation to improve macro- to “no win, no fee” conditional fee agreements. economic surveillance across the EU27; and included a Referral fees are usually paid by solicitors to third new directive which sets out minimum standards for parties, usually claims management companies or insurers, member states’ domestic fiscal frameworks. who “refer” business to them. But current arrangements The Government have supported the proposed economic have led to the growth of an industry that actively governance legislation in broad terms. The March Finance encourages individuals to bring cases, regardless of the Ministers Council (ECOFIN) agreed a general approach merits of their claim. to the six proposals linked here— The Government strongly believe that it is not in the http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms data/docs/pressdatayen/ public interest for potential claimants to be sought out ecofin/119888.pdf and encouraged to make claims by people who profit including a UK exemption from relevant articles of the from their claims being pursued. We believe that referral fiscal frameworks directive. Negotiations are currently fees add to the high costs and volume of personal injury underway with the European Parliament (EP). litigation, one of the factors underpinning increases in European Council of 17-18 October 2011 insurance premiums. As my right hon. Friend Lord Delegations will be presented with a draft agenda, Youngrecognised in his report, “Common Sense, Common submitted by the President of the European Council, to Safety” last year, referral fees also contribute to the risk set out the main items that the European Council is of a corrosive compensation culture. expected to address on 17-18 October 2011. The agenda Lord Justice Jackson, in his review of civil litigation for the October European Council will include economic funding and costs which was published last year, policy, and external aspects of the EU economic policy recommended that referral fees should be banned or including trade; preparations for the G20 summit on capped in personal injury cases. 3-4 November; and the EU position ahead of the climate Our aim is to reform the system to end the abuses change discussions in Durban (28 November-9 December). that have occurred while ensuring that victims who have Additional agenda items may be added in the lead up to suffered a personal injury through someone else’s negligence the Council. remain able to make a claim for damages where they Accession Treaty with Croatia have an appropriate case. Alongside the planned reforms The presidency is likely to use the opportunity to take to conditional fee agreements, the ban on referral fees stock of the work done so far in drafting the accession will contribute to the Government’s plans to tackle the treaty with Croatia. Discussion is likely to be limited, compensation culture by discouraging unmeritorious although the date and venue for the formal signature of claims and controlling the disproportionate costs of the accession treaty may be raised. personal injury claims, without denying access to justice. 829W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 830W

The Prime Minister: The Home Office lead on counter Written Answers to terrorism and the Department for Transport on aeroplane and airport security. Both Departments work closely Questions with each other including through the Cabinet Office.

Appointments Friday 9 September 2011 John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister what his last appointment was in London before Christmas 2010. HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION [68538] Pay The Prime Minister: On 21 December 2010 I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including Hugh Bayley: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, Cabinet. I also refer the hon. Member to the news story Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of that was published on the Number 10 website on Commons Commission, pursuant to the answer of 22 December 201: Official Report 7 June 2011, , column 2W, on pay, what http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/pm-and-prince-charles- the pay figures for 2010-11 would be if the pay of staff visit-injured-troops/ employed by PICT were included. [69743]

John Thurso: The answer of 7 June 2011, Official British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation Report, column 2W, gave a figure of £57 million for salaries paid to House of Commons staff in 2010-11. John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister which the first This was based on the draft accounts at 23 May 2011. occasion was that he discussed BSkyB with (a) In the final version of the House of Commons Resource Rebekah Brooks and (b) James Murdoch after Accounts (HC 1423) the equivalent figure fell to £55 million 22 December 2010. [68539] owing to later accounting adjustments. The amount paid in total salaries to staff in the House of Commons The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the plus PICT for the financial year 2010-11 was £64 million. answer I gave on 20 July 2011, Official Report, column 935. PICT is a joint department of both Houses and the equivalent net cost to the House of Commons is £62 million after taking account of the House of Lords John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister (1) whether he contribution. received advice from the (a) information and security services and (b) police in advance of employing Andy Coulson; [68542] (2) which company the Government engaged to vet PRIME MINISTER the appointment of Andy Coulson as Director of Communications at 10 Downing Street; on what date; 10 Downing Street and at what cost. [69031]

John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister what records Owen Smith: To ask the Prime Minister (1) whether (a) 10 Downing street keeps of the (i) name and (ii) the company which conducted the security vetting of number of visitors who have entered 10 Downing street Mr Andy Coulson, upon his appointment as Director (b) through a back entrance since 6 May 2010 and the of Communications at 10 Downing Street, was an dates of such visits. [68563] accredited national security vetting provider; [69021] The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the (2) whether (a) Mr Edward Llewelyn, (b) Mr Steve list of official meetings by Ministers with external Hilton, (c) Mr Craig Oliver, (d) Mr Andrew Cooper organisations which is published on a quarterly basis and (e) Mr Andy Coulson were subject to (i) baseline and to the list of meetings with proprietors, editors and personnel security standard vetting, (ii) a counter senior media executives which was published on 15 July terrorist check, (iii) a security check and (iv) developed 2011. This is available on the Number 10 website and vetting. [69022] will be updated quarterly: http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/pm-published-details-of- The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Members to the visitors-to-chequers/ answer I gave to the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland I also refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to (Helen Goodman) on 20 July 2011, Official Report, the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark column 939. I also refer the hon. Members to the letter (Simon Hughes) on 20 July 2011, Official Report, sent by the Cabinet Secretary to the hon. Member for column 926. Bury South (Mr Lewis) on 22 July 2011. A copy of this is available on the Cabinet Office website: Airports: Security http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/andy- coulson-sir-gus-odonnells-letter-ivan-lewis-mp Mark Pritchard: To ask the Prime Minister if he will consider the merits of placing all aviation security Mr George Howarth: To ask the Prime Minister matters under the auspices of the Home Department. pursuant to the statement of 20 July 2011, Official [70166] Report, column 939, (1) what advice he received prior 831W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 832W to taking his decision to take himself out of the The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the decision-making process in respect of the acquisition answer I gave on 20 July 2011, Official Report, column of BSkyB; and whether contacts during the course of 950, to the hon. Member for Derby North (Chris his meetings with senior staff from News International Williamson). at formal meetings or socially, constrained him from Departmental Mobile Phones taking part in that process; [68833] (2) for what reasons it was not appropriate for him to John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister how many take a view on the proposed takeover by NewsCorp of mobile phones he has that are (a) wholly and (b) BSkyB; what record was taken of his meetings with partially funded from the public purse. [67975] senior staff from News International; and if he will place a copy of such records in the Library; [68859] The Prime Minister: I have access to a range of mobile communication devices. The Prime Minister: I refer the right hon. Member to the answer 1 gave to the hon. Member for Islington John Yates North (Jeremy Corbyn) on 20 July 2011, Official Report, column 939. I also refer the right hon. Member to the John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister on what date list of proprietors, senior executives and editors of his chief of staff has communicated with Assistant media organisations that I have met since the general Commissioner John Yates since his appointment; and election which was published on Friday 15 July 2011. whom his chief of staff informed of each such This is available on the Number 10 website communication. [68564] http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/pm-published-details-of- visitors-to-chequers/ The Prime Minister: My Chief of Staff has meetings and will be updated quarterly. and discussions with a wide range of organisations and individuals on a range of subjects. I refer the hon. Member to the statement I made on 20 July 2011, John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister if he will Official Report, column 920. publish his Office’s records of each communication between his (a) chief of staff, (b) political office and Lockerbie: Moussa Koussa (c) press office and special advisers in (i) HM Treasury, (ii) the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Prime Minister (iii) the Home Office in which Andy Coulson’s name whether Moussa Koussa was interviewed by Scottish was part of the communication in 2011. [69035] police in respect of the Lockerbie bombing. [70982]

The Prime Minister: In carrying out their duties, on The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the whatever the subject matter, special advisers and civil answer I gave to him during my statement on 5 September servants carry out their duties in accordance with the 2011, Official Report, column 45. Code of Conduct for Special Advisers and the Civil Neil Wallis Service Code. John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister (1) whether John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister how many (a) his staff exchanged emails with Neil Wallis in (a) 2010 telephone calls, (b) meetings and (c) email exchanges or (b) 2011; on what dates; and which officials were his chief of staff has had with Andy Coulson in 2011 to involved; [68180] date. [69036] (2) whether he and his officials have met (a) Neil Wallis and (b) other representatives of Chamy Media The Prime Minister: Andy Coulson has not visited since May 2010; [68181] Downing Street since his departure on 30 January 2011. (3) what communications (a) he, (b) officials in his private office and (c) (i) press officers, (ii) other John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister how many officials and (iii) special advisers in 10 Downing street discussions (a) in person and (b) by telephone he has have had by (A) e-mail, (B) meeting, (C) telephone call had with Andy Coulson since Mr Coulson resigned; on and (D) letter with Neil Wallis since his appointment; what dates; which conversations were monitored by and on what dates; [68741] officials of his Department; and what was discussed on (4) what occasion his chief of staff communicated each occasion. [69037] with Neil Wallis by (a) email, (b) personal meeting, (c) telephone and (d) letter since 6 May 2010; [68492] The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the (5) whether (a) he, (b) his private office staff, (c) his answer I gave him on 20 July 2011, Official Report, special advisers and (d) his press officers had (i) column 954. telephone, (ii) email and (iii) face-to-face contact with Neil Wallis in (A) 2010 and (B) 2011; and if he will John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister how long place in the Library a copy of the record of any such Andy Coulson stayed at Chequers on his most recent communications. [68541] visit; who else was present at Chequers at that time; and whether he discussed with Andy Coulson any issue The Prime Minister: Our records suggest Mr Wallis relating to (a) the proposed News Corporation bid for visited Downing street to meet Andy Coulson for a BSkyB and (b) allegations of phone hacking and drink on 26 May 2010. Andy Coulson and my Chief of associated activities on that occasion. [69038] Staff attended a working dinner hosted by Commissioner 833W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 834W

Sir Paul Stephenson at Scotland Yard in June 2010 at Luciana Berger: To ask the Prime Minister if he will which Neil Wallis was present, as has already been publish logs of his telephone calls with (a) James made clear. Murdoch, (b) Rupert Murdoch, (c) Rebekah Brooks and (d) Andy Coulson since he left his position as Toby Perkins: To ask the Prime Minister when he Director of Communications. [68092] was first informed that Neil Wallis was employed by the Metropolitan police. [68226] Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Prime Minister if he will publish logs of telephone calls he has had with (a) The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the James Murdoch, (b) Rupert Murdoch, (c) Rebekah statement I made on 20 July 2011, Official Report, Brooks and (d) Andy Coulson since he left his position columns 920-21, and to the answer I gave to the right as the Prime Minister’s Director of Communications. hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle [68298] (Alan Johnson), on 20 July 2011, Official Report, column 926. Ian Lucas: To ask the Prime Minister (1) if he will publish logs of telephone calls between him and (a)(i) James Murdoch, (ii) Rupert Murdoch and (iii) News Corporation Rebekah Brooks since his appointment and (b) Andy Coulson since the date of his resignation as Director of John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister (1) on what Communications at 10 Downing Street; [68825] dates he has met (a) Rebekah Brooks and (b) James Murdoch in his official capacity since May 2010; The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Members to the [67976] list of meetings with proprietors, editors and senior (2) on how many occasions he met Rebekah Brooks media executives since May 2010 which was published between 21 December 2010 and 5 January 2011; and on 15 July 2011. This is available on the Number 10 (a) where and (b) on what date each such meeting website took place. [68540] http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/pm-published-details-of- visitors-to-chequers The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the and will be updated quarterly. I am the first Prime list of proprietors, senior executives and editors of Minister to publish such material, I have telephone calls media organisations that I have met since the general with a wide variety of people. election which was published on 15 July 2011. This is available on the Number 10 website at: Newspaper Press http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/pm-published-details-of- visitors-to-chequers/ Luciana Berger: To ask the Prime Minister if he will and will be updated quarterly. publish the logs of telephone calls he has had with newspaper editors and proprietors since May 2010. John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister (1) on what [68178] dates his chief of staff has (a) spoken in person and (b) communicated by (i) email, (ii) text and (iii) Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Prime Minister if he telephone to which (A) employees, (B) advisers and (C) will publish logs of telephone calls he has had with other representatives of (1) News Corporation and (2) newspaper editors and proprietors since May 2010. News International or their media outlets since [68299] 1 December 2010; [67977] (2) on what dates since 6 May 2010 (a) employees, Ian Lucas: To ask the Prime Minister if he will (b) owners, (c) advisers and (d) other representatives publish logs of telephone calls between him and newspaper of (i) News Corporation and (ii) News International or editors and proprietors since his appointment. [68824] any of their media outlets have visited (A) 10 Downing Street, (B) Chequers and (C) his office at the House of The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Members to the Commons; and who visited in each case; [67978] list of meetings with proprietors, editors and senior media executives since May 2010 which was published (3) on what occasions his chief of staff has communicated on 15 July 2011. This is available on the Number 10 with (a) James Murdoch, (b) Rebekah Brooks and (c) website other representatives of News International and News Corporation by e-mail, personal meeting, telephone or http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/pm-published-details-of- visitors-to-chequers letter. [68566] and will be updated quarterly. I am the first Prime Minister to publish such material, I have telephone calls The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the with a wide variety of people. list of proprietors, senior executives and editors of media organisations that I have met since the general election which was published on 15 July 2011. This is John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister whether his available on the Number 10 website at: chief of staff informed anyone in 10 Downing Street of a dossier communicated to him by The Guardian http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/pm-published-details-of- newspaper; and if so whom. [68562] visitors-to-chequers/ and will be updated quarterly. The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to Special advisers publish all hospitality received and the answer I gave on 13 July 2011, Official Report, will publish all meetings with senior media executives. column 302-03. 835W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 836W

Rebekah Brooks Mr Djanogly: The information is as follows: (a) The Ministry of Justice tracks savings in a monthly John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister at what time performance report. From April 2011 the methodology and on what date his Office published the details of his described at point (i) has been used to record these social engagement with Rebekah Brooks on savings. Note that from May 2010 to April 2011 a 26 December 2010. [68994] similar methodology was used albeit the reporting of cost pressures was less refined. The Prime Minister: This was published on 15 July 2011. (i) The procurement performance report provides a monthly forecast of in year procurement savings, cost JUSTICE pressures, cost avoidance and the resulting net impact on the financial year to senior managers, the MoJ Civil Disorder Procurement Committee and the MoJ Finance Committee. John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Savings are recorded by Procurement Category Leads Justice what effect public disorder in August 2011 in in accordance with OGC Guidance “Procurement England and Wales will have on the funding of (a) Efficiency and Value for Money Measurement—Efficiency probation, (b) courts and (c) prison services. [71144] Programme Guidance”. Savings are recorded against the category of spend the saving as defined by the OGC Mr Djanogly: The recent civil disorder will potentially 2008 Procurement Spend Survey. Savings and changes impact the operational costs of the Ministry of Justice, in savings are registered through exception reports on a including courts, probation, and prison services. As monthly basis and signed off by business stakeholders. part of our regular financial and operational management Cashable savings we are monitoring sentencing trends and prison population A cashable saving is defined as against our financial and capacity plans. The full impact of the public disorder will not be known until all “efficiencies that release financial resources whilst maintaining offenders have been sentenced by the courts. outputs and output quality, thereby enabling the resources that are released to be diverted to other services″. John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Savings are recorded as the total amount claimed excluding Justice whether public disorder in August 2011 in VAT rounded to the nearest whole pound. Cashable England and Wales will result in a review of budgets savings are reported as ’in year’ savings (the pro rata for criminal justice agencies during 2011-12 and saving enabled during the financial year in which the subsequent financial years. [71145] initiative was delivered) and ’full year effect’ savings (the initiatives impact on the following financial year) Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice has responsibility for the criminal justice system and my Department Cost pressures works closely with the Home Office and Attorney-General’s Cost pressures are recorded against MoJ categories Office. of spend and are forecast for the 2011-12 financial year. As part of its regular financial and operational These pressures are reported across Procurement Major management, the Ministry of Justice monitors sentencing Contracts, Category Management, ICT Procurement trends and prison population against the financial and and Transport and Logistics. Cost pressures are recorded capacity plans. The Department is closely monitoring against the following ’types’ of pressure; the impact on its services, but the full scale of the Inflation financial implications will not be known until all offenders Change in legislation/Policy have been sentenced by the courts. Supplier price increase above inflation In relation to the police, there is no plan to review the Other funding settlement. Although challenging, the Home Cost avoidance savings Office believes that the settlement they have reached for the police is both fair and manageable. There is no Cost avoidance savings enabled by MoJ Procurement question that the police will have the resources to do are calculated by comparing projected spend with their important work. counterfactual spend whereby a saving results when The CPS is currently assessing the additional costs spend is lower than it would have been otherwise had which will be incurred as a result of the recent public the cost avoidance exercise had not been undertaken. disorder. Investigations and prosecutions will continue Counterfactual spend is based on a ’do nothing’ approach over the next two years at least and the full impact will ie if the MoJ did nothing then spend would rise in line not be known until all investigations and prosecutions with inflation. Cost avoidance, if enabled, will be recorded are concluded. against relevant forecasted cost pressures. Non-cashable savings are not recorded unless they are to negate a The Ministry of Justice and CPS will continue to recorded cost pressure. keep the Treasury informed about the implications for their financial position. The net savings effect is provided for MoJ as a whole Departmental Procurement and by MoJ Corporate, NOMS and HMCTS business groups. The net savings effect = enabled savings + Owen Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice remaining forecast savings - forecast annual cost pressure what methodology (a) his Department and (b) the + enabled cost avoidance. non-departmental public bodies for which he is responsible (b) The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) does not hold used to estimate savings to the public purse made in centrally information regarding the methodology used respect of its procurement and purchasing since May by NDPBs to estimate savings to the public purse 2010. [69268] made in respect of its procurement and purchasing. 837W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 838W

This information can be obtained only at a disproportionate Table 1: Number of young people held in the secure estate for children cost to the Department, by requesting this information and young people on each week night from 1 August to 5 September from every NDPB. 2011 Date Number Legal Aid Scheme: Asylum August 1 2,117 Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for 2 2,117 Justice what the cost of legal aid provided for asylum 3 2,116 seekers was in each of the last eight years. [71105] 4 2,107 Mr Djanogly: It is not possible to disaggregate asylum 5 2,104 spending from other immigration spending in all cases, 6— nor is it possible to identify legal aid spending on 7— asylum seekers in other categories of law; for example, 8 2,095 family law and criminal law. Therefore, the figures in the 9 2,099 following table show total legal aid spending on the 10 2,094 immigration and asylum category of law. 11 2,129 12 2,144 Total in £ million cash 13 — 14 — 2003-04 200 15 2,181 2004-05 177 16 2,209 2005-06 103 17 2,234 2006-07 80 18 2,254 2007-08 86 19 2,245 2008-09 88 20 — 2009-10 90 21 — 2009-10 84 22 2,243 NHS: Negligence 23 2,265 24 2,253 25 2,245 Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for 26 2,243 Justice if he will estimate the level of costs payable by 27 — the Department of Health if legal aid funding were to be retained for children with catastrophic injuries as a 28 — 29 — result of alleged clinical negligence. [70266] 30 2,258 Mr Djanogly: According to data held by the Legal 31 2,247 Services Commission the volume of children under the age of 18 which received legal aid for clinical negligence September closed in 2010-11 was 587 and gross spend was £6,278,733. 1 2,253 A further detailed breakdown is not available. 2 2,236 3— Youth Custody 4— 5 2,224 Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Notes: Justice how many people were held in the youth secure 1. 2011 YJB data referring to Secure Training Centres (STCs), Secure estate on each night since 1 August 2011. [70125] Children’s Homes (SCHs), and Young Offender Institutions (YOIs). The data is drawn from the daily operational data provided by each Mr Blunt: The table shows the number of young establishment, and therefore does not include data on weekends or bank holidays. It also does not include 18 to 21-year-olds held in YOI people held in the secure estate for children and young separate units for which the YJB do not hold data. people on each week night for the period from 1 August 2. Young people are defined as those aged 10 to 17 years of age, 2011 to 5 September 2011. however some 18-year-olds remain in the secure estate for children and young people if they only have a short period of their sentence Youngpeople are defined as those aged 10 to 17 years left to serve, to avoid disrupting their regimes (and are included in of age, however some 18-year-olds remain in the secure these figures). estate for children and young people if they only have a short period of their sentence left to serve, to avoid disrupting their regimes (and are included in these figures). This data is from the Youth Justice Board ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE (YJB) and refers to Secure Training Centres (STCs), Electricity Supply Secure Children’s Homes (SCHs), and Young Offender Institutions (YOIs). The data are drawn from the daily Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for operational data provided by each establishment, and Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made therefore does not include data on weekends or bank of the amount of electricity that will be generated by holidays. It also does not include 18 to 21-year-olds the Shears Mill mini-hydro scheme on the River Itchen; held in YOI separate units for which the YJB do not and how many homes he estimates the project will hold data. power. [71053] 839W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 840W

Gregory Barker: Information on individual hydro subject to the same regulatory and environmental projects relating to applications for permits can be requirements as any other onshore drilling activity and sought directly from the Environment Agency. I therefore have no current plans to introduce regulatory guidelines. Energy Supply: Older People Renewable Energy: Research Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many (a) males and (b) females aged over 60 years had (i) gas supplies and (ii) Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for electricity supplies disconnected in each year since Energy and Climate Change how much has been spent on renewable energy research and development by (a) 1997; and if he will make a statement. [R] [71233] the Office for Renewable Energy Deployment and (b) the UK Energy Research Centre since May 2010. Charles Hendry: Ofgem monitors and publishes information about the disconnection of gas and electricity [70197] supplies. However, the disconnection data are not collected by age or gender. The following tables shows the total Gregory Barker: In financial year 2010-11 the Office number of disconnections due to debt for gas and for Renewable Energy Deployment (ORED) spent electricity in each year from 1998 to 2010. £3,389,370 on renewable energy research and development (including the National Non Food Crops Centre). In 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 the current financial year to date (April 2011 to August 2011) ORED spent £370,738 (including NNFCC). Gas 29,500 22,177 16,500 26,088 21,780 15,973 The Department for Business Innovation and Skills Electricity 400 373 300 375 995 1,361 is responsible for spending by the UK Energy Research Council on its renewable energy research and development. 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Gas 2,553 2,309 3,859 5J27 2,999 1,794 813 Electricity 727 604 1,258 2,657 2,891 2,433 1,988 DEFENCE Existing supply licence obligations and an industry code of practice provide protection for consumers in Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations debt. Suppliers must not disconnect a domestic premises during October to March if they know or have reason to believe that the customer is of pensionable age and David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for lives alone, or only lives with other pensions or children Defence what assessment he has made of the effects on under the age of 18. operations in Afghanistan of the UK’s participation in military action in Libya; and if he will make a statement. Energy: Prices [70647]

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Dr Fox: We are committed to success in Afghanistan, for Energy and Climate Change what recent representations which continues to be our main effort. As part of he has received on increases in domestic electricity and normal Defence business, an effective balance of resources gas prices; and if he will make a statement. [70698] is maintained to ensure that we continue to meet operational commitments in Afghanistan and in Libya. We will Charles Hendry: DECC Ministers and officials have continue to keep our requirements under review taking received a number of representations on market issues. military advice, including advice from our Commanders on the ground, so that our armed forces receive the Consumers deserve the best possible deal, which means support they need for the vital work they are undertaking. effective competition in the marketplace. We are cutting red tape for smaller suppliers to boost competition in retail markets, while Ofgem is tackling other barriers to Armed Forces effective competition (such as tariff complexity and low wholesale market liquidity) in its retail market review. Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimate he has made of the (a) increase Fossil Fuels in provision of services which would be required and (b) cost to the public purse of implementing the Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Army’s policy that personnel and their families should Energy and Climate Change when he plans to integrate as fully as possible into the local communities introduce regulatory guidelines for fracking. [71098] in which they are based. [70193]

Charles Hendry: The UK has a strong regulatory Nick Harvey: Comprehensive planning work is now safety and environmental regime in place, administered under way to draw up plans for the timing and sequencing by the Health and Safety Executive, the respective of the Army moves. While our plans will continue to be environmental agencies, the planning authorities and driven by the military requirement, we will aim, where my Department, to ensure that all potential risks to possible, to base Army personnel close to a number of safety or the environment are properly managed. Onshore units, to enable them to change post while providing gas exploration has a long history in the UK and the greater family stability and be close enough to urban technologies employed—including hydraulic fracturing areas to allow their families to have easier access to jobs, (fracking)—are well understood. Fracking is already schools, housing and other facilities. 841W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 842W

This detailed planning work will involve engagement Departmental Manpower with partners such as the Scottish Government, West Lothian Council and Other Government Departments Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence and agencies. It is therefore too early to confirm further how many of his Department’s civilian staff were (a) details on the exact requirements and their costs. working and (b) based in Wales in (i) 2008-09, (ii) 2009-10 and (iii) 2010-11; and if he will make a Armed Forces: Housing statement. [67848] Mr Robathan: The headcount and Full-Time Equivalent Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for (FTE) strength of Ministry of Defence civilian personnel Defence how the married quarters accommodation working in Wales are shown in the following table: associated with Redford and Dreghorn Barracks will be used during any interval between the relocation of Headcount FTE military personnel and their families from Redford and Dreghorn and the opening of the new barracks in April 2,210 2,170 2008 Kirknewton. [70400] April 2,050 2,010 2009 Mr Robathan: The requirement for service family April 2,020 1,970 accommodation (SFA) is kept under constant review. It 2010 is assumed that there will be a continual requirement for April 1,810 1,760 SFA in the Edinburgh area from entitled service personnel 2011 and their families. Source: DASA (Quad-Service) Army Departmental Pay Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the Ministerial salary was of each Defence what the final cost was of moving the Army’s Minister in his Department in (a) January 2009, (b) Northern headquarters from York to Edinburgh. January 2010 and (c) 1 May 2010. [70829] [70278] Dr Fox [holding answer 8 September 2011]: Salaries Mr Robathan: This information is not held in the paid to Ministers in the Ministry of Defence for the format requested. periods requested are as follows:

Ministers and position Salary at 1 January 2009 (£) Salary at 1 January 2010 (£) Salary at 1 May 2010 (£)

Secretary of State right hon. John Hutton MP 78,356 — — Appointed 4 October 2008 Resigned 5 June 2009

Secretary of State right hon. Bob Ainsworth MP — 78,356 78,356 Appointed 6 June 2009

Minister of State right hon. Bob Ainsworth MP 40,646 — — To 5 June 2009

Minister of State Bill Rammell MP — 40,646 40,646 Appointed 8 June 2009

Minister of State right hon. Lord Drayson Unpaid Unpaid Unpaid

Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State right hon. Baroness Taylor of Bolton 72,326 72,326 72,326

Parliamentary Under-Secretary of Stale Kevan Jones MP Unpaid 30,851 30,851 Unpaid to 8 June 2009 843W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 844W

Ministers and position Salary at 1 January 2009 (£) Salary at 1 January 2010 (£) Salary at 1 May 2010 (£)

Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State Quentin Davies MP Unpaid Unpaid Unpaid

Libya: Armed Conflict Nick Harvey: Comprehensive planning work is now under way to draw up plans for the timing and sequencing Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Secretary of State for of the Army moves. Defence what information his Department holds on Until this work is complete and further detail is (a) the types of weapons used by other NATO nations known about the size and type of units that will move to against targets in Libya and (b) the proportion of total Kirknewton, it is not possible to confirm budgetary weapons used represented by each type. [70223] requirements or allocations.

Nick Harvey: The UK does not comment on the Navy operational details of allied nations’ operations, which are a matter for the governments concerned. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what support his Department has given to the Libya: Security Royal Navy Philatelic Society in each of the last five years. [70867] Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what support he plans to give to the National Mr Robathan: The Royal Navy Philatelic Society is Transitional Council to support security sector reform an independently managed private fund. It has been in Libya. [70548] closely associated with the Royal Navy by the nature of its role of promoting the philatelic hobby amongst Dr Fox: The United Nations leads on co-ordinating Naval Service personnel, although not exclusively so. the international community’s response to the post-conflict No Ministry of Defence support is given for the needs of Libya. If the National Transitional Council maintenance and regulation of the society. submits a formal request for assistance, the UK will work closely with international partners and donors to Olympic Games 2012 help meet the needs of the Libyan people.

Military Bases Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what his Department’s planned role is in the London 2012 Olympics. [70435] Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence where he expects (a) the army bomb disposal Nick Harvey: The Government are committed to unit and (b) other units based at Craigiehall, other delivering a safe and secure 2012 Olympic and Paralympic than the 2nd Division headquarters, to be based after Games for all, in keeping with the Olympic culture and the closure of Craigiehall and before any new facilities spirit. are completed. [70209] The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media Nick Harvey: The announcement made by the Secretary and Sport has overall responsibility for the conduct of of State on 18 July 2011, Official Report, columns the Games. The Secretary of State for the Home 643-45, set out the strategic long-term direction on the Department has overall responsibility for the security structure of the Army and its basing requirements arrangements. The Ministry of Defence expects that it across the United Kingdom. The announcement also may provide other Government Departments with some confirmed the Secretary of State’s aim to make the specialist support and capabilities in niche areas. Although most efficient use of the Defence estate by vacating and at a mature state of planning, the extent of that support disposing of Craigiehall by 2014-15. is yet to be finalised. Comprehensive planning work is now under way to understand the impact on Army bomb disposal and RAF Kirknewton other units based at Craigiehall and to draw up plans for their re-provision. Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Until this work is complete and further detail is Defence (1) what the results were of the ecological known about the size and type of units that will be survey commissioned by his Department one year after required to support the future Army lay down in Scotland, the diesel leakage at RAF Kirknewton; and if he will it is too soon to confirm the future locations of units place in the Library a copy of these results; [70203] currently based at Craigiehall. (2) whether a risk assessment has been carried out on the potential for damage to oil tanks buried under Military Bases: Kirknewton Kirknewton, West Lothian, by the construction of a super-barracks on the site; [70204] Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) what the total cost was of (a) repairing the Defence how much funding he expects to allocate under underground fuel tanks and (b) cleaning the surrounding each budget heading to the new army base at Kirknewton. area after the diesel leak at RAF Kirknewton in March [70189] 2010; [70205] 845W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 846W

(4) what costs are likely to be incurred in building the Grade equivalent Total1 new barracks at Kirknewton, West Lothian, as a result of the presence of two redundant fuel tanks under the Senior Civil Servant 67 airfield; and for what purposes. [70206] Grade unrecorded centrally 79 Locally engaged staff abroad 1,268 Mr Robathan: A copy of the ecological survey report (estimate) will be placed in the Library of the House. The surveys Temporary staff abroad (estimate) 121 concluded that no remedial measures are recommended Inward seconded police (estimate) 157 as the Green Burn is recovering and there is no discernable Workforce 21,917 impact further downstream or along the Goger Burn. A 1 Figures are provided as at 31 August, the most recent download from the UK Border Agency central personnel system. Staff working abroad have been further survey is to be undertaken in 2012 to confirm included on an estimated basis from July staffing material and other sources.. that water quality has returned to normal and 2 Immigration Service grade equivalents given here, include comparable staff on former HM Revenue and Customs grades. re-colonisation is complete. Notes: The total costs arising from the removal of tanks and 1. Locally engaged staff abroad etc. are included on the most recent reported basis (July 2011). remediation of the surrounding ground following the 2. Work force excludes staff on special leave, career break and unpaid pollution incident in March 2010 comprised of: maternity leave. Because of the inclusion of figures for July, the total figure is £105,274.09 to investigate and delineate the pollution and an estimate of the end August position. remove residual hydrocarbons from the drainage system; The UK Border Agency is expected to reduce work £46,159 to remove the two leaking tanks, excavate and dispose force over the spending review period. By 31 March of hydrocarbon contaminated soil and reinstate the ground; and 2015 we expect there to be around 18,000 staff working £17,554.96 to make adjustments to the drainage system. for the agency. This means a reduction of around 5,200 It is too early at this time to confirm further details of posts from 31 March 2011. any costs that may be incurred at Kirknewton, including A detailed breakdown of staff numbers month by those costs associated with the presence of any remaining month is not available. redundant fuel tanks, infrastructure and the carrying out of risk assessments. Kirknewton is however scheduled Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for for inclusion within the Ministry of Defence’s Land the Home Department what the value was of payments Quality Assessment programme for the current financial made by her Department and its agencies to external year. IT contractors in each year since 2009. [70577] Damian Green: The Home Department, inclusive of its Executive agencies, has published its expenditure HOME DEPARTMENT with external IT contractors in its annual report and Anti-Slavery Day 2011 accounts for the period requested. Departmental Training Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps the Government is Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for the taking to mark Anti-Slavery Day 2011. [70895] Home Department how much her Department has spent on training for Ministers since 12 May 2010. Damian Green: The Government are currently developing [67726] their plans for the day and will announce them in due course. Damian Green [holding answer 19 July 2011]: All Departmental Manpower ministerial training is funded through the National School of Government’s Core Learning Programme which delivers induction and other training to Ministers. Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for This is funded through a Government-wide centralised the Home Department how many staff in the UK budget, to which the Home Office contributes. Border Agency (a) were working at each grade on 1 September 2011 and (b) are expected to be working Entry Clearances: Married People at each grade on 1 September 2012. [70486] Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for Damian Green: The information for 31 August 2011—the the Home Department how many spousal visa applications most recent available—is set out in the following table: have been rejected since 6 April 2011 on the basis of not meeting English language requirements. [70859] Grade equivalent Total1

Administrative Assistant 1,315 Damian Green: The number of spousal visa applications Administrative Officer 4,344 refused between 6 April 2011 and 30 June 2011 on the Assistant Immigration Officer2 643 basis of not meeting the English language requirement Executive Officer 3,477 is 55. Immigration Officer2 5,321 A monthly breakdown is as follows: Higher Executive Officer 2,037 Chief Immigration Officer2 976 Month Number refused Senior Executive Officer 1,158 From 6 April 2011 13 HM Inspector of Immigration2 223 May 2011 24 Grade 7 551 June 2011 18 Grade 6 179 847W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 848W

institutions in Scotland have applied for Highly Month Number refused Trusted Status; when each institution applied; and Total 55 when each institution was informed of the results of its application. [70160] These data are based on management information. They are provisional and subject to change. Damian Green: As at 5 September 2011, 16 higher European Court of Human Rights education institutions in Scotland had applied for Highly Trusted Sponsor Status. Information on the dates of Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for application and decision for these institutions is as the Home Department what discussions she (a) has follows: had and (b) plans to have with the European Court of Human Rights on proposed changes to the family Sponsor Date of application Date notified of decision migration route in the UK. [70568] 1 30 June 2010 28 September 2010 2 28 June 2010 23 September 2010 Damian Green: I have had no discussions with the 3 29 June 2010 1 September 2010 European Court of Human Rights on proposed changes 4 30 June 2010 26 November 2010 to the family migration route, and no such discussions 5 21 June 2010 22 September 2010 are planned. 6 1 July 2010 3 September 2010 Extradition 7 29 June 2010 3 August 2010 8 30 June 2010 24 December 2010 Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for 9 30 June 2010 20 September 2010 the Home Department what extradition facilities the 10 28 June 2010 22 September 2010 United Kingdom has with Qatar. [70980] 11 30 June 2010 20 September 2010 12 18 June 2010 27 September 2010 Damian Green: There are currently no general extradition 13 13 August 2010 24 September 2010 relations between the UK and Qatar, although this does 14 30 June 2010 14 September 2010 not preclude the possibility of extradition. 15 25 June 2010 26 August 2010 The UK can also have extradition relations with 16 28 June 2010 8 September 2010 parties to international conventions relating to specific The figure provided is based on local statistical very serious crimes, of which the UK is also a signatory. information and is not subject to the detailed checks This is provided for within section 193 of the Extradition that apply for National Statistics. They are provisional Act 2003. The UK and Qatar are signatories to a and subject to change. number of such conventions. Section 194 of the Extradition Act 2003 makes provision for the UK to consider Human Rights extradition requests made to it by a territory with which no general extradition arrangements are in place. Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for Female Genital Mutilation the Home Department what recent representations she has received from human rights organisations Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for the concerning Article 8 of the European Convention on Home Department what her policy is on returning girls Human Rights. [70569] to countries which are known to practise female genital mutilation. [71086] Damian Green: The Government are currently consulting on family migration, and the consultation discusses the Damian Green: All asylum applications, including operation of Article 8 and immigration control. The those which raise female genital mutilation, are carefully consultation runs until 6 October, and a list of contributors considered by the UK Border Agency on their individual will be published thereafter. merits, taking into consideration up to date country information. Human Trafficking Asylum or Humanitarian protection will be granted where it is established that an individual adult or child Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for faces a real risk of Female Genital Mutilation in her the Home Department what steps the Government is own country. This will only apply in cases where the taking to reduce the difference between the estimated country’s authorities cannot provide protection, and number of victims of human trafficking in the UK and where there is no reasonable possibility of moving the number of potential victims of human trafficking elsewhere in the country to avoid the threat. identified by the National Referral Mechanism. [70906] The UK Border Agency only enforces the return of those nationals who it is satisfied are not in need of Damian Green: Trafficking is by its nature a hidden international protection, and it does not seek to enforce crime and therefore it is difficult to get a full picture of returns to any country unless it and the UK Courts are the numbers involved. Entry to the National Referral satisfied that it is safe to do so. Mechanism (NRM) is voluntary so we cannot force those we suspect of being victims to participate against Highly Trusted Status their will. But we are committed to bringing as many victims as possible into the NRM. To do this we continue Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for the to raise awareness of trafficking with frontline partners Home Department how many higher education such as the police, local authorities and health service 849W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 850W and have recently increased the number of voluntary Damian Green: No meetings or other types of sector partners who are able to make direct referrals communication have taken place between the Home into the NRM. Working in partnership with the UK Secretary, other Ministers or the special advisers and Border Agency’s audit team and the Strategic Monitoring Neil Wallis. Group, who are responsible for overseeing the functioning Records relating to e-mail, meetings, telephone of the NRM, we are also enhancing the way we identify conversations, letters between departmental officials and victims of trafficking from those who are referred to us. external organisations are not held centrally and to Details of the steps we are taking can be found in the collate such information would incur disproportionate Government’s Human Trafficking Strategy, published cost. on 19 July 2011: www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime/human-trafficking-strategy Overseas Workers Identity and Passport Service: Redundancy Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps she plans to State for the Home Department what redundancy take to prevent trafficking of people following the notice employees of the Identity and Passport Service abolition of the overseas domestic services visa; and if aged over 60 years are entitled to; and if she will make she will make a statement. [70811] a statement. [71023] Damian Green: Details of the steps the Government Damian Green [holding answer 9 September 2011]: are taking to prevent the trafficking of people can be All redundancy notice periods are made in accordance found in its Human Trafficking Strategy, published on with the provisions of the Civil Service Management 19 July 2011: Code and Civil Service Compensation Scheme. www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime/human-trafficking-strategy Immigration The Government’s consultation, Employment-Related Settlement, Tier 5 and Overseas Domestic Workers, Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for published on 9 June, is open for comment until 9 September. the Home Department what estimate she has made of Its proposals on overseas domestic workers include the the change in the level of net migration arising from the possible abolition of the route for domestic workers proposed changes to the family migration route over who work in the private household of their employer in the next five years. [70570] the UK. No decision has been made on abolition. We will consider future policy on overseas domestic workers Damian Green: The impact on net migration of the in the light of responses to the consultation. proposed changes to the family route will be set out in the impact assessment which will be published when Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for final changes are announced following the current the Home Department whether doctors working on consultation. These will take into account advice from Tier 2 visas will be exempt from the Resident Labour the independent Migration Advisory Committee on Market Test at further points when they have to apply where the income threshold should be set. for higher specialist training. [70854] Neil Wallis Damian Green: Doctors who have begun Speciality John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for the Training in the UK under Tier 2 are currently exempt Home Department whether (a) she, (b) her private from the Resident Labour Market Test when they apply office staff, (c) her special advisers and (d) press officers to continue that training. We have no plans to change in her Department had (i) telephone and (ii) email this. contact with Neil Wallis in (A) 2010 and (B) 2011. [68182] Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when she expects to decide Damian Green [holding answer 5 September 2011]: whether doctors who are non-EEA nationals who have There was no communication between the Home Secretary trained in the UK will continue to be exempt from the or her special advisers and Neil Wallis in either 2010 or Resident Labour Market Test in light of changes to 2011. Tier 2 and Tier 4 visas. [70855] No central records are held regarding communication with departmental officials and external organisations, Damian Green: We have no plans to remove any so retrieving this information would be at disproportionate Resident Labour Market Test exemptions in relation to cost. doctors who have trained in the UK.

John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for the Visas Home Department what communications (a) she, (b) other Ministers in her Department, (c) officials in her private office and (d) (i) press officers, (ii) other officials Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for and (iii) special advisers of her Department have had by the Home Department how many appeals for (a) Tier 1 (A) e-mail, (B) meeting, (C) telephone call and (D) and (b) Tier 2 visa applications have (i) been upheld letter with Neil Wallis since her appointment; and on and (ii) not been successful in the last 12 months for what dates. [68740] which information is available. [70455] 851W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 852W

Damian Green: Outside the UK, a refusal of entry TREASURY clearance to a main applicant under all tiers of the Bank Services: Disclosure of Information points based system (PBS) does not attract a full right of appeal. Main applicants can appeal only on one or more of the following grounds: Mr Hanson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the decision is unlawful by virtue of Section 19B of the what assessment he has made of the likely effect on tax Race Relations Act 1976 (c.74) (discrimination by public (a) evasion and (b) avoidance of granting HM authorities), and/or Revenue and Customs access to information on UK that the decision is unlawful under Section 6 of the Human registered companies’ bank accounts. [70210] Rights Act 1998 (c.42) (public authority not to act contrary to Human Rights Convention) as being incompatible with the appellant’s Mr Hoban: No separate assessment has been made convention rights. by HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) of the exchequer PBS main applicants can apply for an administrative benefit relating to (a) evasion or (b) avoidance arising review, which is a mechanism for reviewing refusal from access to data on the existence or status of bank decisions. accounts alone. PBS dependants who are refused do have full right of HMRC uses a range of information as part of its appeal. The following figures cover such appeals and work to address tax compliance risks. the period August 2010 to July 2011 Where it is considered necessary to check a company’s tax position HMRC may obtain information either Appeals from the taxpayer directly or, subject to greater safeguards, Tier 1 appeals upheld 430 from a third party. This can include copies of banking Tier 1 appeals dismissed 285 and financial transactions from financial institutions. Tier 2 appeals upheld 177 Mr Hanson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Tier 2 appeals dismissed 136 what his policy is on granting HM Revenue and As there is no full right of appeal for PBS main Customs access to data on the (a) existence and (b) applicants, the above numbers are mainly for PBS status of UK registered companies’ bank accounts. dependants. [70211] In addition to the above there have been the following administrative reviews processed during this period: Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) is granted access to data about UK company bank accounts Tier 1: 1,743 under existing legislation. Firstly, HMRC receive an Tier 2: 733. annual report from every UK bank and any foreign bank which operates in the UK. The bank must report Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for details of the interest paid on company accounts open the Home Department if she will work with the during that year for any company which has a UK Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills address. to assess the potential effects of changes to Tier 1 and Secondly, HMRC may approach banks for information 2 visas on (a) levels of skill shortage and (b) the UK which is required to check a person’s tax position. This economy. [70457] includes details of bank accounts held by UK companies and may include any information in the bank’s power Damian Green: The Home Office and UK Border or possession relating to open, or closed accounts, Agency work closely with the Department for Business, which may be reasonably required during an ongoing Innovation and Skills and other interested Departments HMRC check or where there is a risk of serious prejudice on all significant changes to economic migration policy. to the assessment or collection of tax. HMRC has given The Migration Advisory Committee also considered a commitment that it will only issue a written notice the input of a limit in its report last year. requesting this information where approval has been Visas: Appeals given by the First Tier Tribunal. Banks: Fraud Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps she is taking to Richard Fuller: To ask Mr Chancellor of the simplify the visa appeals process. [70487] Exchequer how many senior banking executives and directors have been investigated by (a) the Financial Damian Green: The Government are currently consulting Services Authority and (b) the police for submitting on the circumstances in which a family visit visa appeal fraudulent expenses in each of the last five years. should be retained and is inviting suggestions as to how [69334] the family visit visa application form and process can be improved in order to reduce the number of appeals. The Mr Hoban: The Financial Services Authority is not a consultation can be found at: fraud prosecutor; therefore the investigation of matters www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/consultations such as fraudulent expenses falls primarily to other In the interim, we are taking steps to simplify the visa enforcement agencies such as the police or the Serious appeal process by introducing a single point of lodgement Fraud Office (SFO). However, if the police or the SFO, for visa appeals alongside the introduction of appeal or the FSA in the course of carrying out its regulated fees. The change, which will result in all appeals being activities, found that a person who held an FSA controlled lodged at the tribunal, will remove the risk of duplication function had submitted a fraudulent expenses claim, and delay in the system. the FSA would consider the matter in the light of the fit 853W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 854W and proper criteria for approved persons and take The Government increased the child element of the appropriate action, which could include investigation Child Tax Credit by £180 above indexation in April and disciplinary action such as a financial penalty or 2011 and will increase it by £110 above indexation in prohibition. April 2012. As a result, modelled tax and benefit reforms The Home Office is responsible for collecting data on announced since Budget 2010 may have a-small reduction police recorded crime. However, information on the in child poverty in 2011-12 and 2012-13. number of senior banking executives and directors that Parents currently receive support to pay for childcare have been investigated by the police for submitting through the childcare element of Working Tax Credit. fraudulent expenses is not collected centrally. In addition, the Government maintained free early learning for 3 and 4 year olds, and extended 15 hours a week of Banks: Regulation free early education and care to all disadvantaged 2 year olds from 2012-13. Jonathan Evans: To ask Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer The new Universal Credit will replace the current what steps he is taking to support improved, more complex system of means-tested working age benefits standardised and more regular reporting of financial with an integrated payment over the next two Parliaments, data by banks; and if he will make a statement. [69750] reducing fraud and error and ensuring that work pays. The Government is working with key stakeholders, Mr Hoban: The Government is making strong efforts drawing on their expertise, to establish which options both domestically and internationally to enhance will best support parents to meet the costs of childcare transparency and disclosure. in the future within or alongside Universal Credit. Banks’ financial statements must show a true and fair Details of the new proposal will be set out shortly. view; as part of this, the financial statements of listed banks must be prepared in accordance with International Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) Financial Reporting Standards. Improvements to standards what estimate he has made of the changes in income in governing valuation of financial instruments and off-balance each decile of the population attributable to the sheet arrangements have been adopted and further changes in payment rate of the child care element of enhancements to valuation and impairment standards child tax credit in (a) each constituency, (b) each local are in progress. authority area, (c) Scotland, (d) Wales, (e) England, The Basel Committee has put in place improvements (f) Northern Ireland and (g) the United Kingdom in to the Pillar 3 disclosures covering capital and risk (i) the 2011-12 financial year and (ii) each of the next management. These have been implemented in the UK four financial years; [70477] through FSA rules. (2) what estimate he has made of the average change The Government encourages transparent disclosures in income attributable to the changes in payment rate and is taking a number of actions with regards to the of the child care element of child tax credit in each (a) reporting of data by banks, as part of wider EU initiatives, constituency and (b) local authority area in (i) the including: 2011-12 financial year and (ii) each of the next four enhanced sovereign disclosures in the latest European financial years. [70478] Banking Authority (EBA) stress tests that provide greater transparency to market participants; and proposals for Capital Requirements legislation (CRD4), the European Mr Gauke: It is the impact of the tax and benefit implementation of Basel 3, to require banks to publish system as a whole that is important for households. At their leverage ratio and information on liquidity from the June Budget 2010, Spending Review 2011, and most 2015. recently Budget 2011, this Government have published detailed distributional analysis of the impacts of its Finally, the Government endorses the interim Financial decisions (see for example charts A.2 and A.3 in Annex Policy Committee (FPC) recommendation, made at the A of Budget 2011). FPC meeting on 16 June 2011, for the FSA to “ensure that improved disclosure of sovereign and banking This analysis shows that, when looking at the cumulative sector exposures by major UK banks becomes a permanent impact of reforms introduced by this Government, it is part of their reporting framework, and to work with the clear that the top decile contributes the most to the FPC to consider further extensions of disclosure in the fiscal consolidation, both in absolute terms and as a future”. percentage of net income. This analysis is at a UK level. It is not possible to Child Tax Credit provide the estimates requested at the other disaggregations asked for as these do not provide sufficiently robust Mr Bain: To ask Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer if results. he will estimate the effect on levels of child poverty Looking at the impact of tax credit changes in 2011-12 attributable to the changes in payment rate for the would only show a partial effect as it is only in 2012-13 childcare element of the child tax credit applicable that they are fully implemented. Also, presenting analyses from the 2011-12 financial year in each of the next four of tax, tax credit and benefit changes further into the financial years. [70475] future may not be representative of the impact of Government policy.In addition there is greater uncertainty Mr Gauke: It is the impact of the tax and benefit associated with longer term economic forecasts which system as a whole that is important for child poverty. underpin the modelling. 855W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 856W

Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer payment under the Equitable Life Compensation Scheme how many recipients of the child care element of child in each month since the scheme began. [70256] tax credit there were in each (a) constituency and (b) local authority area in each of the last five financial Mr Hoban: The Scheme does not require policyholders years. [70479] to make a claim for payment. The Scheme will directly contact eligible policyholders in accordance with the Mr Gauke: Information on the number of recipients prioritisation criteria set out in the Scheme rules, available of the child care element of working tax credit by at: constituency and local authority area can be found in ″ http://equitablelifepaymentscheme.independent.gov.uk/ tables 2 and 3 of the annual HMRC publication Child resources/elps_main_doc_final.htm. and Working Tax Credits Statistics: Finalised Annual Payments began on the 30 June, and hundreds of Awards—Geographical Analysis″. Publications covering payments have been made to date. Payment volumes the last five financial years are available at: will continue to be ramped up over the coming months http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/final- as the Scheme’s complex payment processes are refined award-geog.htm further. The scheme does not hold a breakdown of eligible policyholders by constituency. Corporation Tax: Credit Unions Financial Policy Committee Graeme Morrice: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will review the current law on corporation tax as it applies to credit unions. [68841] Penny Mordaunt: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what criteria were used in determining the Mr Gauke: The Government keep all taxes under appointment of members of the interim Financial review. Policy Committee; and what discussions there were on the criteria of the appointment of members of the The Government have committed to foster diversity, Interim Financial Policy Committee prior to those promote mutuals and create a more competitive banking appointments being made. [69625] industry, as set out in the Coalition’s programme for government. Mr Hoban [holding answer 7 September 2011]: The On 3 March the Department for Work and Pensions four independent members of the interim Financial announced a £73 million modernisation fund to help Policy Committee were appointed by the Chancellor, in credit unions expand their services. This is subject to a consultation with the Governor of the Bank of England. feasibility study which closes in September. An update The Committee’s membership brings an appropriate can be found at: balance of expertise and experience across the range of http://www.dwp.gov.uk/other-specialists/the-growth-fund/ the issues within the Committee’s remit. latest-news/ On 12 April the Treasury made the Mutual Societies Income Tax: Tax Rates and Bands (Electronic Communications) Order 2011. This allows credit unions and other mutuals to communicate with their members electronically. Stephen Hammond: To ask Mr Chancellor of the I am also pleased to inform you that on Tuesday 19 Exchequer how many people (a) have been and (b)are July the draft Legislative Reform (Industrial and Provident expected to be taken out of income tax bands during Societies and Credit Unions) Order 2011 was laid in the Comprehensive Spending Review period. [70110] Parliament for its final period of scrutiny. It will present many opportunities for credit unions to develop their Mr Hoban: The Government’s objective is to support services and expand their membership. For example, lower and middle income earners by raising the personal the changes in membership rules will allow for recruitment allowance to £10,000, with real terms progress towards of members in new areas and for partnerships and that goal every year. companies to become members and invest in their local The June 2010 Budget announced a £1,000 cash credit union. increase in the personal allowance for under 65s to £7,475 in 2011-12 (£820 above the previous Government’s Debit Cards: Fees and Charges plans), with the benefits focussed on individuals on low and middle incomes through accompanying changes to Mr Spellar: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the basic rate limit and National Insurance Upper when his Department expects to respond to the Earnings and Profit Limits. recommendations of the Office of Fair Trading on As a result of this measure, the Government estimates debit card surcharges. [70051] that 830,000 of the lowest income taxpayers will be removed from tax altogether in 2011-12. Mr Hoban: The Government are considering the The 2011 Budget announced a £630 cash increase in OFT’s recommendations and will respond in due course. the personal allowance for under 65s to £8,105 in 2012-13 (£240 above indexation), with an equivalent reduction Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation in the basic rate limit to leave the higher rate threshold unchanged. Harriett Baldwin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer As a result of this measure, the Government estimates how many persons resident in West Worcestershire that 260,000 of the lowest income taxpayers will be constituency have (a) made claims and (b) received removed from tax altogether in 2012-13. 857W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 858W

These estimates are based on the 2007-08 Survey of Mr Hoban: The Government estimates that around Personal Incomes, projected using economic assumptions £500m would be raised in 2011-12 if individuals over consistent with the Office for Budget Responsibility’s state pension age were required to pay National Insurance March 2011 economic and fiscal outlook. contributions on employment and self-employment income. This estimate is based on the 2007-08 Survey of Personal Incomes, projected using economic assumptions Inward Investment consistent with the Office for Budget Responsibility’s March 2011 economic and fiscal outlook and includes Nicholas Soames: To ask the Chancellor of the an estimated behavioural adjustment to reflect changes Exchequer what recent steps his Department has taken in labour supply for this age group. to encourage global business to invest in the UK. [71109] National Insurance Contributions: Scotland

Mr Hoban: The Treasury contributed to the development Anas Sarwar: To ask the Chancellor of the of policy actions for trade and inward investment within Exchequer how many successful applications for the the Plan for Growth, published in March 2011. This is National Insurance Holiday scheme his Department part of the Treasury’s ongoing work to support all has received from businesses based in (a) Scotland, businesses in the UK that includes creating the most (b) the city of Glasgow and (c) each parliamentary competitive tax system in the G20 and making the UK constituency in Scotland. [71049] one of the best places in Europe to start, finance and grow a business. Mr Hoban: As of 7 September 2011, HMRC has received 922 successful applications for the NICs holiday from businesses located in Scotland. National Insurance Contributions Information for applications from the city of Glasgow are not available as data are not provided on this level. Natascha Engel: To ask Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer A breakdown of successful applications for the NICs how many businesses (a) in North East Derbyshire holiday by constituency will be published in the House constituency, (b) in Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire of Commons Library in the autumn. This will provide and (c) nationally have participated in the regional figures for all Glasgow, as well as Scottish, constituencies. employer National Insurance Contributions holiday for new businesses since it was introduced. [70105] Northern Rock plc

Mr Hoban: As of 5 September 2011, HMRC has Alex Cunningham: To ask Mr Chancellor of the received 8 successful applications for the NICs Holiday Exchequer what steps he is taking to ensure that Northern form businesses in North East Derbyshire constituency Rock employees in the North East are retained so that and 6,316 successful applications nationally. Northern Rock remains a regional bank. [71081] Information about applications is not available for Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire as data is not provided Mr Hoban: The Government recognises the role that on a county level. Northern Rock plays as an employer and provider of financial services in the North East. Prospective acquirers for Northern Rock PLC will be asked to lay out their Natascha Engel: To ask the Chancellor of the plans for the company’s headquarters and branches Exchequer whether he plans to extend the national and also to provide a view on the impact of their insurance contributions holiday to existing businesses acquisition on competition. with fewer than four members of staff. [70106] Revenue and Customs Mr Gauke: The policy is designed to support new businesses in parts of the country that are most reliant Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Chancellor of the on the public sector assisting them in their first year, Exchequer what reorganisations of employees and units reducing the costs of hiring staff and improving the there have been within HM Revenue and Customs likelihood of business survival. (HMRC) dealing with high-value taxpayers since May The Government have considered the case for extending 2010; what estimate he has made of the change in yield the NICs holiday to all existing micro businesses but received by HMRC attributable to such changes; and believes the best use of public funds at this time is to what the result has been in terms of the yield generated keep the NICs holiday as a targeted scheme for those to HMRC. [70525] areas in most need of employment support. Mr Hoban: The High Net Worth Unit (HNWU) was created in 2009 to deal with the personal tax affairs of National Insurance Contributions: Pensioners about 5,000 of HMRC’s wealthiest individual customers, typically those with at least £20 million in wealth. This Penny Mordaunt: To ask Mr Chancellor of the reorganisation was completed during early 2010-11, Exchequer whether he has made an estimate of the reflecting the experience of the operation over its first level of revenue which could be raised from charging year. National Insurance contributions on pensioners’ Initial projections were that HMRC could achieve incomes as a means of funding care services; and if he compliance yield of between £50 million to £100 million will make a statement. [71004] per year from the HNWU, once it was fully operational. 859W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 860W

This compares with the £25 million compliance yield There are a number of factors that affect an individual’s typically achieved from the equivalent taxpayer group decision to retire so it is not possible to predict. However, by the previous organisation. based on current staff numbers those reaching 60 at The unit’s additional tax yield in the first year of each year of the comprehensive spending review period operations (2009-10) was £85 million; in the second are: year (2010-11) it was £162 million. As at 1 April each year Number Percentage

Revenue and Customs: Finance 2012 439 1.41 2013 462 1.49 Mr Ward: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2014 506 1.63 what steps he is taking to ensure that the 2015 499 1.61 implementation of budgetary changes in HM Revenue and Customs does not adversely affect its ability to (a) collect taxes and (b) provide customer service. [71106] Revenue and Customs: Tyne and Wear Mr Hoban: HMRC will create a tax administration that is more efficient, flexible and effective by using a Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Chancellor of the customer-centric approach to transform the way it delivers Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effects services, manages contact and conducts interventions. of the outcome of the comprehensive spending review HMRC will use its understanding of customers to on the (a) quality and (b) availability of face-to-face target resources to the areas of greatest risk, investing services provided by HM Revenue and Customs in £900 million to tackle avoidance and evasion, attacks Washington and Sunderland West constituency. [70103] by organised criminals and to improve debt collection capacity. This will bring in an estimated £7 billion a Mr Gauke: Like all Government Departments, HMRC year by 2014-15 in additional revenues. must operate cost effectively within its spending review It will transform PAYE through the use of real-time settlement. HMRC does not believe that its settlement information in order to bring service improvements to has had any material effect on the quality or availability employers and taxpayers. of its face-to-face services. Changes that have been made to the opening hours of the Department’s Enquiry Revenue and Customs: Manpower Centres followed a public consultation and a full equality impact assessment that predate the spending review. Mr Hanson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer HMRC’s business strategy is designed to ensure that pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for Hayes services are tailored to the needs of its customers. The and Harlington of 29 June 2011, Official Report, Department keeps under review the range and mix of column 818W, on Revenue and Customs: labour service channels available to customers, to ensure they turnover, what the age profile is of officers of Revenue remain appropriate. But in line with both the spending and Customs carrying out compliance functions. review and the business strategy, HMRC will continue [70155] to provide face-to-face support for customers who need it—including customers in Washington and Sunderland Mr Hoban: The age profile of officers in compliance West. functions is shown in the following table. The data have been taken at 31 August 2011: Tax Avoidance Percentage Age group <20 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 >60 Stephen Hammond: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the estimated monetary rate was of Percentage of 0.07 5.26 15.87 35.62 35.64 7.55 (a) tax avoidance and (b) tax planning schemes in compliance officers force in (i) 2000 and (ii) each year since 2005. [70392]

Mr Gauke: The latest tax gap estimates were published Mr Hanson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer in September 2010 in “Measuring Tax Gaps 2010” on pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for Hayes HMRC’s website: and Harlington of 29 June 2011, Official Report, column 818W, on Revenue and Customs: labour http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/measuring-tax-gaps- turnover, how many officers of Revenue and Customs 2010.htm.pdf carrying out compliance functions he expects to retire This publication also contained an illustrative breakdown in each year of the comprehensive spending review of the tax gap by behaviour for 2007-08. This estimated period. [70157] that avoidance and legal interpretation accounted respectively for 17.5% and 15% of the total tax gap. Mr Hoban: At 1 April 2012 there will potentially be 9.27% of compliance officers who have exceeded or HMRC do not produce an estimate of the monetary reached 60. This is based on data at 31 August 2011. As rate of tax planning schemes; unacceptable tax planning there is no longer a mandatory retirement age for the is covered by avoidance. purpose of responding to this question age 60 has been HMRC will be publishing “Measuring Tax Gaps used. 2011” on 21 September 2011. 861W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 862W

Tax Evasion Mr Hoban: There is no option to extend VAT relief on fuel to charities that carry out other charitable Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Chancellor of the activities. EU VAT agreements, entered into by successive Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effects Governments, do not allow the UK, or any other Member of the outcome of the comprehensive spending review State, to unilaterally extend the scope of existing zero on HM Revenue and Customs’ capacity to (a) prevent rates, or introduce new ones. However, the Government and (b) prosecute tax evasion. [70104] gives very generous support through tax reliefs to the charitable sector. These reliefs allow charities to purchase medicines, medical equipment and certain other specialised Mr Hoban: Over the next four years HMRC will equipment, and charities which provide rescue or assistance reinvest £917 million of the savings they make to maximise at sea to purchase fuel, VAT-free. additional revenues, which will include putting extra resource into tackling both evasion and avoidance. VAT: Golf The reinvestment will fund a range of measures including significantly increasing coverage of the mass market, Mr Brine: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer tackling tax evasion, building on the existing one-to-one whether his Department has made an assessment of client relationship model for large businesses and wealthy the effect on competition between proprietary and individuals, tackling organised crime and a range of members’ golf clubs of the VAT rating applicable to interventions designed to collect more debt. proprietary golf club membership fees. [70180] Specifically, HMRC will increase staff tackling evasion and fraud and avoidance by around 2,500 FTEs by Mr Hoban: No assessment has been made. I refer the 2014-15. Some 200 more criminal investigators and 40 hon. Member to the answer given on 6 September 2011, intelligence officers will provide a significant increase in Official Report, column 402W, to my hon. Friend the the criminal investigation of evasion cases. Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey ( Gordon Together this should bring in around £7 billion each Henderson). year by 2014-15 in additional revenues. VAT: Registration and Tax Yields Stephen Hammond: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the level of Stephen Hammond: To ask the Chancellor of the tax evasion in the last year for which figures are Exchequer (1) how much revenue was raised from VAT available. [70391] receipts in (a) 2000 and (b) each year since 2005; [70384] Mr Gauke: The latest tax gap estimates were published (2) how many companies were registered liable to in September 2010 in “Measuring Tax Gaps 2010” on pay VAT in (a) 2000 and (b) each year since 2005; HMRC’s website: [70385] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/measuring-tax-gaps- (3) what estimate he has made of the number of 2010.htm.pdf businesses who are not registered for VAT; [70386] This publication also contained an illustrative breakdown (4) what recent estimate he has made of the increase of the tax gap by behaviour for 2007-08. This estimated in VAT receipts arising from the increase in the rate of that evasion accounted for around 17.5% of the total VAT. [70387] tax gap, equating to approximately £7 billion. HMRC will be publishing ″Measuring Tax Gaps Mr Gauke: Information on VAT receipts and VAT 2011″ on 21 September 2011. registered traders are available in the VAT Bulletin https://www.uktradeinfo.com/index.cfm?task=bullvat Stephen Hammond: To ask Mr Chancellor of the No estimate has been made of the number of businesses Exchequer how much funding HM Revenue and that are not registered for VAT. Customs allocated to measures to tackle tax evasion in The Exchequer yield from the increase in the standard each year since 2005. [70393] rate of VAT to 20% was published in the June 2010 Budget Mr Gauke: It is not possible to provide an answer to http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/junebudget_costings.htm the question in the format requested as HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) do not allocate on this basis. Overall funding for HMRC’s compliance activity cannot be broken down in this way as its activity - from policy CABINET OFFICE making, through support and education, to audits and investigations - covers all aspects of compliance behaviour Departmental Procurement from error through to evasion as well as countering criminal attacks and avoidance. Owen Smith: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many Buying Solutions suppliers are (a) VAT: Fuel small and medium-sized enterprises and (b) large companies based in (i) Wales, (ii) Scotland, (iii) Northern Tessa Munt: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Ireland, (iv) London and the Home Counties, (v) East whether he plans to give tax relief on VAT on fuel to Anglia and Lincolnshire, (vi) the Midlands, (vii) the (a) Dorset and Somerset Air Ambulance and (b) North West including Merseyside and Lancashire and other charities. [70083] (viii) the North East. [69337] 863W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 864W

Mr Maude: Breakdown of suppliers on Government Tom Greatrex: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Procurement Service frameworks 2010-11 is in the table: Office (1) on how many occasions he has met the Small and Medium-sized Enterprises Crown Representative; SME Large Unknown [70072] Region suppliers suppliers status Total (2) when he last met the Small and Medium-sized Wales 11 8 2 21 Enterprises Crown Representative; [70073] Scotland 7 9 1 17 (3) when he next plans to meet the Small and Northern Island 11 8 3 22 Medium-sized Enterprises Crown Representative. London and the home 367 343 30 740 [70074] counties East Anglia including 18 12 0 30 Lincolnshire Mr Maude: I meet the Crown Representative for Midlands 117 104 7 228 small and medium-sized enterprises frequently. North West including 64 57 8 129 Merseyside and Royalties Lancashire North East 62 40 4 106 National/no region 63 39 37 139 Mike Weatherley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet specified Office what estimate he has made of the cost to Total 720 620 92 1,432 industry of offering software and technology products to government on a royalty free basis. [70113]

Departmental Work Experience Mr Maude: Government have no intention of demanding the intellectual property for all ICT solutions it specifies. The proper place for discussion of these rights is during Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Minister for the contract negotiation. Cabinet Office how many (a) persons undertaking unpaid work experience, (b) unpaid interns and (c) The current policy states that intellectual property other persons in unpaid positions were working in the relating to solutions provided by the private sector for Prime Minister’s Office as of 1 July 2011. [69502] public sector contracts should remain with the party best placed to exploit them. This ensures that, wherever sensible, business can retain their IP to use with other Mr Maude: As of 1 July 2011 the Prime Ministers clients and internationally. office and Deputy Prime Minister’s office had no individuals undertaking unpaid work experience or any unpaid As outlined in the Government ICT Strategy1, published interns, or individuals in unpaid positions in either in March 2011, the Government is committed to creating office. However, there were 16 individuals on paid a level playing field for open source software for placements within the entire Cabinet Office, including Government ICT procurement. We recognise that open the Prime Minister’s and Deputy Prime Minister’s offices, source solutions present significant opportunities for on either apprenticeships or graduate internships. improved value for money and the stimulation of a more competitive ICT environment. We are therefore The Social Mobility Strategy, published in April 2011, taking positive action to encourage the use of open clearly states that we want to ensure that everyone has a source in departments, where cost is equal to, or less fair opportunity to fulfil their potential. Making work than, the lifetime costs of proprietary software. experience and internships available to young people from all walks of life is a key element of this. I am The Government will publish guidance on intellectual pleased that the Government are leading by example in property related to public procurement later this year, Whitehall with a new internship programme for under- to raise awareness in the public sector and industry. represented groups. The new Whitehall Internship Scheme 1 Available online at: has been developed in response to a pledge in the http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/uk- coalition agreement which states that the Government government-government-ict-strategy_0.pdf will provide internships in every Whitehall Department for under-represented groups, including Black, Asian Mike Weatherley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet and Minority Ethnic communities. Government Office what representations he has received from Departments began their participation in the scheme industry on procurement policy Action Note 3/11. over the summer, with the Cabinet Office committed to [70114] offering 20 places by the end of the financial year. Mr Maude: Cabinet Office has met with representatives Public Sector: Procurement and members of Open Forum Europe, Intellect and the Business Software Alliance to discuss Action Note 3/11. In addition, written correspondence has been received Tom Greatrex: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet from several individual suppliers. Office who the members are of his Department’s SME The UK Government Open Standards Survey included Panel. [70040] an opportunity to provide feedback on the criteria which define an open standard, which is included in Mr Maude: The 25 members of the SME Panel are Acton Note 3/11—over 400 contributions were received. drawn from SMEs who represent a cross section of These are currently being considered with a Government regions and industry sectors. response is due in October. 865W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 866W

Thameslink Railway Line: Rolling stock COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT

Margaret Beckett: To ask the Minister for the Local Government: Carbon Emissions Cabinet Office what (a) instructions and (b) advice was given by his Department to the Department for Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Transport on the conduct of the procurement for the State for Communities and Local Government what Thameslink rolling stock contract [68845] assistance he is giving to local authorities to assist them in reducing their emissions; and if he will make a Mr Maude: Unless asked to do so, the Cabinet Office statement. [71199] does not give instructions or guidance on specific procurement projects, which remain the responsibility Andrew Stunell: This Department is working with the of the sponsoring Department. Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) to develop Green Deal, which will provide the means for households and landlords, including local authorities, Unemployment to improve the energy efficiency of their properties. A number of local authorities are already undertaking Julie Elliott: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet trailblazer retrofit projects in advance of the Green Office pursuant to the answer of 7 July 2011, Official Deal and we are encouraging others to consider forming Report, column 1337W, on unemployment, how many partnerships, for example, with energy providers and children in (a) the City of Sunderland and (b) the other private sector organisations, to deliver Green North East were living in workless households in the Deal in their area. latest period for which figures are available. [68909] It should also be noted that DECC are working with the Local Government Group, and directly with many Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the local authorities, to promote Green Deal delivery and responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have wider carbon reduction activity, particularly in the context asked the authority to reply. of the Memorandum of Understanding between DECC and the Local Government Group and the development Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2011: of local government’s proposed new Nottingham As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Declaration. have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how many children in (a) the City of Sunderland and (b) the North East were living in workless households in the latest period Local Government: Pensions for which figures are available. (68909) The figures requested come from the Annual Population Survey Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for (APS) household dataset. The latest data currently available is for Communities and Local Government what the opt out 2009. The table shows estimates for Sunderland and the North rates for the Local Government Pension Scheme were East. Further information can be found at: in each year from 2006 to 2010. [71216] http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lmac/workless-households-for- regions-across-the-uk/2010/rft-table-c-children-areas.xls Robert Neill: The information in the form requested The Labour Force Survey (LFS) produces a timelier estimate is not held centrally. Individual Scheme administering of children in workless households: authorities will have details of those who have left the http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lmac/working-and-workless- Scheme before their normal retirement age. households/2011/table-m.xls However these estimates are only provided down to Regions and Private Rented Housing: Energy so estimates are not available for local authority. Therefore, in order to maintain consistency, the APS is used for alt geographical areas. Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS are subject State for Communities and Local Government what to a margin of uncertainty as different samples give different steps he is taking to improve standards of energy results. These estimates are such that there is 95 per cent certainty efficiency in the private rented sector; and if he will that from all samples possible they will lie within the lower and make a statement. [71198] upper bounds. Table 1: Children in workless households1 in Sunderland local Andrew Stunell: The Government will be introducing authority and the North East the Green Deal in late 2012 to provide the means for Thousand households and landlords to improve the energy efficiency January- of their properties. The Green Deal will enable energy December 2009 Estimate Lower bound2 Upper bound2 efficiency measures to be installed at no up-front cost, through a Green Deal provider, and paid for through Sunderland 14 10 19 energy bill savings over time. The Energy Bill includes North East 94 84 105 provision to introduce a minimum energy efficiency 1 Households containing at least one person aged 16-64, where all standard for private rented sector housing in 2018. The individuals aged 16 or over are not in employment. Government are committed to ensuring that there are 2 95% confidence interval which means that from all samples possible no net negative costs to landlords. The Bill also proposes there would be 95 per cent certainty that the true estimate would lie within the lower and upper bounds. a requirement for landlords to provide consent to reasonable Source: requests from tenants for energy efficiency improvements, APS household dataset in 2016. 867W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 868W

Trade Unions: Subscriptions Mr Harper: The Government have begun the process to appoint new Commissioners to the Boundary Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for Commission for Wales, following the Code of Practice Communities and Local Government which of the published by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. trade unions recognised by (a) his Department and I expect the appointments to be made in October 2011. (b) its public bodies charge a political levy on staff Departmental Work Experience trade union subscription fees; whether the political levy may be deducted at payroll level; and what the policy of his Department and each public body is on informing Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister staff joining such unions of the right to opt out of how many (a) persons undertaking unpaid work payment of the political levy. [61783] experience, (b) unpaid interns and (c) other persons in unpaid positions were working in his office as of 1 July Robert Neill: The following table sets out the trade 2011. [69516] union recognised by the main Department and the 10 sponsored bodies that have collective bargaining agreements: Mr Maude: I have been asked to reply. As of 1 July 2011 the Prime Minister’s office and Organisation Trade Union(s) Deputy Prime Minister’s office had no individuals undertaking unpaid work experience or any unpaid DCLG (Main Department) Prospect, PCS and FDA interns, or individuals in unpaid positions in either Planning Inspectorate (PINS) Prospect, PCS and FDA office. However, there were 16 individuals on paid QE11 Conference Centre (QE11 CC) PCS placements within the entire Cabinet Office, including The Audit Commission Prospect the Prime Minister’s and Deputy Prime Minister’s offices, Fire Service College (FSC) Prospect and GMB on either apprenticeships or graduate internships. Homes and Communities Agency (HCA) PCS, UNISON and Unite Independent Housing Ombudsman Ltd Unite The Social Mobility Strategy published in April.2011 (IHOL) clearly states that we want to ensure that everyone has a Tenant Services Authority (TSA) Unite fair opportunity to fulfil their potential. Making work Valuation Tribunal Service (VTS) UNISON experience and internships available to young people Standards for England (SFE) PCS from all walks of life is a key element of this. I am Ordnance Survey Prospect and PCS pleased that the Government are leading by example in Whitehall with a new internship programme for under- With the exception of Valuation Tribunal Service and represented groups. The new Whitehall Internship Scheme Ordnance Survey all the organisations shown offer the has been developed in response to a pledge in the facility to deduct subscription fees through payroll if coalition agreement which states that the Government requested. will provide internships in every Whitehall Department Notwithstanding, given departmental resources are for under-represented groups, including black, Asian used to facilitate the payment of union subscriptions and minority ethnic communities. Government including the political levy, direct from the DCLG Departments began their participation in the scheme payroll (under so-called ‘check off’ arrangements), I over the summer, with the Cabinet Office committed to appreciate there is a broader public interest in scrutinising offering 20 places by the end of the financial year. this matter. In that context, as an illustration, I observe that PCS campaigning leaflets, handed out within my Department, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT do not inform DCLG staff members of their statutory right to opt-out of the political levy when they join, and Digital Broadcasting: Television they correspondingly are signed up to have their union membership fee deducted direct from their DCLG pay Mr Davidson: To ask the Secretary of State for packet. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what estimate he Such a collection of the political levy is clearly not a has made of the number of households which have transparent practice. The consideration of the right to purchased additional equipment in order to access fully opt-out cannot be an informed choice or decision if the new digital television signal in (a) Glasgow, (b) individuals are simply not informed of that right. Scotland and (c) the UK to date; and if he will make a I am depositing in the Library of the House a typical statement. [70158] membership form/campaigning leaflet that has been distributed inside my Department to inform hon. Members Mr Vaizey: The Government does not collect these of these practices. statistics. The matter is primarily one for Digital UK, the independent not-for-profit company leading the implementation of switchover. Digital UK does not hold the information requested, but data from Digital DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER UK’s switchover tracker survey shows that in December 2010, five months before switchover in Glasgow, 88% of TV sets across the STV Central region were equipped to Boundary Commission for Wales: Public Appointments receive digital television services. Across the UK as a whole in December 2010, 83% of TV sets were equipped Guto Bebb: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister when to receive digital television services. Statistics are not he expects to announce the appointment of commissioners held on the reasons for making purchases of digital to the Boundary Commission for Wales. [70725] television equipment. 869W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 870W

Radio Frequencies Mr Vaizey: As the Government made clear in responding to their consultation on implementing the revised EU Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for Electronic Communications Framework—which includes Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport whether he has measures to advance access and choice for disabled assessed the potential effects on the Government’s end-users—equivalence is a broad concept and not tied commitment to provide universal broadband coverage to any particular service. It is for the independent by 2015 if the auction of the 800MHz and 2,600MHz national regulator, Ofcom, to assess what needs to be done to advance that access and choice for disabled spectrum does not take place by mid 2012. [70374] end-users and what obligations might be placed on communications providers to make communications Mr Vaizey [holding answer 7 September 2011]: The more accessible to those with hearing and speech difficulties timing of the auction is unlikely to impact on the and other disabilities. In making those determinations, delivery of universal broadband coverage by 2015. and ahead of any intervention in sector, Ofcom is obliged to undertake a public consultation to fulfil the prerequisite legal obligation on them, under domestic Telecommunications and European law, to ensure that any decision they make ensures proportionality and transparency, and Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for that their decision is non-discriminatory and objectively Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment justifiable. Their current review of relay services will he has made of the functional equivalence of Ofcom’s inform those tests. proposal for a video relay service. [70703] Consequently, no formal assessment of the functional equivalence of Ofcom’s proposal for a video relay service Mr Vaizey: As the Government made clear in responding has been undertaken by the Secretary of State for to its consultation on implementing the revised EU Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, the right hon. Electronic Communications Framework—which includes Member for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt), although measures to advance access and choice for disabled officials have worked closely with Ofcom, as they have end-users—equivalence is a broad concept and not tied developed their proposals. to any particular service. It is for the independent Ofcom’s current review of the provision of relay national regulator, Ofcom, to assess what needs to be services in the UK includes proposals for a package of done to advance that access and choice for disabled improvements to existing relay provision. These proposals end-users and what obligations might be placed on include the introduction of Next Generation Text Relay communications providers to make communications (NGTR), enabling support for two way simultaneous more accessible to those with hearing and speech difficulties communication with live captions/text; and the introduction, and other disabilities. In making those determinations, on a non-commercial basis, of an allocated amount of and ahead of any intervention in sector, Ofcom is access to video relay for the deaf, hearing-impaired and obliged to undertake a public consultation to fulfil the British Sign Language (BSL) users. The Secretary of prerequisite legal obligation on them, under domestic State welcomes these proposals for improvements in and European law, to ensure that any decision they relay provision in the UK and is confident they will make ensures proportionality and transparency, and deliver economic and social benefits to deaf, hearing that their decision is non-discriminatory and objectively impaired and BSL end-users of electronic communications. justifiable. Their current review of relay services will inform those tests. Television: Licensing Consequently, no formal assessment of the functional equivalence of Ofcom’s proposal for a video relay service Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, has been undertaken by the Secretary of State for Olympics, Media and Sport how many pensioners have Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, although officials received free television licences in (a) Jarrow constituency, have worked closely with Ofcom, as they have developed (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) the their proposals. UK in each year since 1997. [70449] Ofcom’s current review of the provision of relay services in the UK includes proposals for a package of Mr Vaizey: The administration and enforcement of improvements to existing relay provision. These proposals the television licensing system is the responsibility of include the introduction of Next Generation Text Relay the BBC which operates independently of the Government. (NGTR), enabling support for two way simultaneous The BBC does not record the numbers of free TV communication with live captions/text; and the introduction, Licences issued on a constituency or regional basis. on a non-commercial basis, of an allocated amount of The BBC has provided the number of free TV Licences access to video relay for the deaf, hearing-impaired and issued to persons aged 75 or over throughout the UK, British Sign Language (BSL) users. The Secretary of since the concession was introduced on 1 November State welcomes these proposals for improvements in 2000, as shown in the following table. relay provision in the UK and is confident they will deliver economic and social benefits to deaf, hearing Number of free TV licences impaired and BSL end-users of electronic communications. issued to persons in the UK aged 75 or over

Mr Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for 2000-01 3,002,549 Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment 2001-02 3,381,000 he has made of the functional equivalence of Ofcom’s 2002-03 3,395,772 proposal for a video relay service. [71452] 871W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 872W

Alistair Burt: The United Kingdom supports political Number of free TV licences issued to persons in the UK aged reform in Bahrain, as essential for Bahrain’s long-term 75 or over stability. Full participation in the political process is in the interests of all parties. We welcomed His Majesty 2003-04 3,490,877 King Hamad’s pledge to initiate reforms during his 2004-05 3,548,595 Ramadan address, following the end of the National 2005-06 3,604,026 Dialogue process. Implementation will now be essential. 2006-07 3,665,879 2007-08 3,709,445 Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 2008-09 3,776,118 and Commonwealth Affairs how many requests for 2009-10 3,853,911 meetings he has received from Bahraini opposition 2010-11 3,929,753 spokespersons; and how many such requests he has Total 39,357,925 agreed to. [70176]

Alistair Burt: I have not had any requests for meetings from spokespersons of Bahrain’s opposition societies. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE British Nationals Abroad: Homicide Armed Conflict: Diamonds Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs what training is provided Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps the to officials based in (a) his Department and (b) Government is taking to prevent conflict diamonds embassies and high commissions on assistance for the being sold in the UK; and if he will make a statement. families of British nationals murdered overseas. [70102] [70784] Mr Bellingham: The UK was a founding member of Mr Bellingham: All consular staff in London and the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme (KPCS), abroad undergo pass/fail training before taking up their launched in 2003 to prevent ‘conflict diamonds’ from duties. Much of this is delivered by professional external entering the legitimate diamond trade. The KPCS imposes trainers and includes specific modules on death in violent strict requirements on its members to enable them to and suspicious circumstances and on bereavement. Staff certify that shipments of rough diamonds are ‘conflict-free’. refresh their skills by attending consular workshops Since the launch of the KPCS, ‘conflict diamonds’ now held regularly at posts around the world which also represent less than 1% of the global trade in rough include specific modules on deaths in violent or suspicious diamonds, compared to 15% in the 1990s. circumstances and bereavement. The British Government are committed to implementing the KPCS, eradicating trade in ‘conflict diamonds’ and Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign working with the international community to strengthen and Commonwealth Affairs what (a) organisations the scheme. The Government Diamond Office, based in and (b) Government Departments are represented on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, is responsible the Death Abroad Working Group. [70130] for overseeing UK implementation of the KPCS. We work closely with UK Customs and law enforcement Mr Bellingham: The Death Abroad Working Group agencies to maintain robust import and export procedures includes representatives from the Foreign and to prevent ’conflict diamonds’ from entering the UK. Commonwealth Office, National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA), Association of Chief Police Officers Bahrain: Politics and Government (ACPO), Metropolitan Police Service (MPS), Home Office Pathologist, Missing Abroad, Victim Support Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Homicide Service, European RoadPeace, Coroners Society Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he last met of England and Wales and Support After Murder and representatives of Bahraini opposition parties. [70173] Manslaughter Abroad.

Alistair Burt: I have not met representatives of the Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Bahraini opposition parties. Our ambassador in Bahrain and Commonwealth Affairs when he expects the draft will be meeting with representatives of all political memorandum of understanding on murder, manslaughter parties. and infanticide of British nationals abroad to come into Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for effect. [70131] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he last met Mr Bellingham: The National Policing Improvement the Bahraini ambassador. [70174] Agency (NPIA) is co-ordinating drafting the Memorandum Alistair Burt: Bahrain is currently between ambassadors. of Understanding (MoU), which will apply for both the When the new ambassador arrives, my officials will be deceased and their family. The MoU clarifies the role of holding substantive discussions with her on a wide the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO), Association range of topics. of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), Victim Support National Homicide Service and Coroners Society of England Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for and Wales. The FCO is ready to sign. NPIA has advised Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is FCO officials that they are carrying out further amendments on the provision of support for political reforms in and a final version will be ready for signature in early Bahrain. [70175] December. 873W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 874W

Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign We have urged the Ethiopian Government to increase and Commonwealth Affairs what resources his access to allow greater provision of humanitarian assistance. Department has made available to support the families I raised my concerns about the situation in the Somali of victims of murder and manslaughter abroad. [70441] region with the regional president when I visited Jijiga in late July. The Under-Secretary of State for International Mr Bellingham: In addition to staff resources in the Development, my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) and at our (Mr O’Brien), made similar representations to Prime embassies, high commissions and consulates abroad, Minister Meles in June. the FCO has entered into an agreement with the Victim Support National Homicide Service to provide funding Diplomatic Relations of up to £100,000 per year for financial years 2011-12 and 2012-13 to enable them to commission services on Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for behalf of bereaved families in England and Wales when Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his a British national dies as a result of murder, manslaughter Department’s policy is on the criteria for establishing or infanticide abroad. diplomatic relations with governments. [71003] Commonwealth Mr Bellingham: Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961 states that “the establishment Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for of diplomatic relations between States, and of permanent Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is diplomatic missions, take place by mutual consent”. on the application of South Sudan to join the The Foreign and Commonwealth Office would consider Commonwealth. [70881] establishing diplomatic relations when deemed to be appropriate and in the UK interest. Mr Bellingham: I fully support South Sudan’s application to join the Commonwealth. A decision on whether Eritrea South Sudan is admitted will be for all member states. Should South Sudan meet the standard for Commonwealth Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for membership, this will give South Sudan the benefits and Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he has support that come from being part of a global network taken to press the Government of Ethiopia to abide by as they build their new country. the Independent Boundary Commission’s ruling on the Crimes Against Humanity demarcation of the border with Eritrea. [71374] Mr Bellingham: The UK Government continue to Ann Clwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign believe that the Ethiopia-Eritrea border must be demarcated and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he in accordance with the ruling of the Ethiopia-Eritrea has had with the Government of Ethiopia on allowing Boundary Commission. We are concerned by the lack a UN Commission of Enquiry access to Somali Region of progress, which has damaging consequences for Eritrea, State to investigate allegations of crimes against Ethiopia and the stability of the wider region. The UK humanity. [70686] Government have encouraged both sides to engage in dialogue as we believe this could help to move beyond Mr Bellingham: The Government are greatly concerned the status quo. We do not consider dialogue to be a by the allegations of serious human rights abuses in pre-requisite to initiating the process of demarcation, some parts of Ethiopia’s Somali regional state. We however, and we have made clear to the Ethiopian receive frequent reports of human rights abuses by both Government the importance of taking practical steps to Government security forces and the Ogaden National begin demarcation without further delay. The Secretary Liberation Front. We have on many occasions called on of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the the Ethiopian Government to allow a credible and right hon. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), independent investigation, both in private conversations raised this issue with Prime Minister Meles when he and in public, such as during the British Government’s visited Ethiopia in July, and with Deputy Prime Minister statement at the last UN Universal Periodic Review of and Foreign Minister Hailemariam when they met in Ethiopia’s human rights. One option that we would London in June. support would be an investigation under the auspices of the UN. Our requests, however, have consistently been Ethiopia rejected. With regard to access, of the nine zones in the Somali Ann Clwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign region, five are subject to varying access restrictions and Commonwealth Affairs when UK Government (Gode, Degaxbur, Warder, Korahe and Fik). UK officials officials were last granted access to the Ogaden region travel frequently to these zones, and I visited as well in in Ethiopia; and under what conditions. [70687] July, although permission is needed for most travel, even in the less conflict-affected areas, and is sometimes Mr Bellingham: The Government are greatly concerned problematic. by the allegations of serious human rights abuses in The Government are also extremely concerned about some parts of Ethiopia’s Somali regional state. We the humanitarian situation in the Somali region, where receive frequent reports of human rights abuses by both some 1.5 million drought-affected people need assistance. Government security forces and the Ogaden National Access by humanitarian agencies is very limited due to Liberation Front. We have on many occasions called on a combination of security threats to aid workers and the Ethiopian Government to allow a credible and restrictions imposed by the Somali Regional Government. independent investigation, both in private conversations 875W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 876W and in public, such as during the British Government’s of issues. Any discussions that we have on Gibraltar statement at the last UN Universal Periodic Review of reflect our clear position on sovereignty, which is that Ethiopia’s human rights. One option that we would the UK will never enter into arrangements under which support would be an investigation under the auspices of the people of Gibraltar would pass under the sovereignty the UN. Our requests, however, have consistently been of another state against their wishes. Furthermore, the rejected. UK will not enter into a process of sovereignty negotiations With regard to access, of the nine zones in the Somali with which Gibraltar is not content. region, five are subject to varying access restrictions (Gode, Degaxbur, Warder, Korahe and Fik). UK officials Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for travel frequently to these zones, and I visited as well in Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has July, although permission is needed for most travel, any plans to visit Gibraltar. [70884] even in the less conflict-affected areas, and is sometimes problematic. Mr Lidington: I visited Gibraltar on 12-13 April The Government are also extremely concerned about 2011. The Secretary of State for Foreign and the humanitarian situation in the Somali region, where Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member some 1.5 million drought-affected people need assistance. for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) currently has no Access by humanitarian agencies is very limited due to plans to visit Gibraltar. a combination of security threats to aid workers and restrictions imposed by the Somali Regional Government. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for We have urged the Ethiopian Government to increase Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many officials access to allow greater provision of humanitarian assistance. of his Department are based in Gibraltar. [70912] I raised my concerns about the situation in the Somali region with the regional president when I visited Jijiga Mr Lidington: There are currently approximately 20 in late July. The Under-Secretary of State for International officials in the Governor’s Office in Gibraltar. This Development, my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury figure includes UK-based civil servants and staff employed (Mr O’Brien), made similar representations to Prime locally. For operational and security reasons, we cannot Minister Meles in June. provide a more detailed breakdown.

Female Genital Mutilation Human Rights Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Ann Clwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign reports he has received on the prevalence of female and Commonwealth Affairs what recent representations genital mutilation in Gambia; and if he will make a he has received on human rights in the Ogaden region statement. [71087] of the Somali Region State in Ethiopia; and if he will make a statement. [70685] Mr Bellingham: The British Government strongly condemn female genital mutilation (FGM) as an abhorrent Mr Bellingham: The Government are greatly concerned form of violence against girls and women. by the allegations of serious human rights abuses in We welcome current efforts, supported by the Gambian some parts of Ethiopia’s Somali regional state. We Government, to eradicate female genital mutilation in receive frequent reports of human rights abuses by both The Gambia by 2012. The UN Population Fund (UNFPA), Government security forces and the Ogaden National as part of its programme to promote sexual and Liberation Front. We have on many occasions called on reproductive health in The Gambia, works hard on this the Ethiopian Government to allow a credible and issue, alongside a range of non-governmental organisations independent investigation, both in private conversations and civil society organisations such as the Gambia and in public, such as during the British Government’s Committee on Traditional Practices Affecting the Health statement at the last UN Universal Periodic Review of of Women and Children (GAMCOTRAP). The EU Ethiopia’s human rights. One option that we would also works closely with and supports GAMCOTRAP, support would be an investigation under the auspices of as does our high commission in Banjul. In July, the the UN. Our requests, however, have consistently been British high commissioner attended an all-day event in rejected. the Lower River Region of The Gambia to celebrate With regard to access, of the nine zones in the Somali GAMCOTRAP’s progress on eradicating FGM in that region, five are subject to varying access restrictions region. (Gode, Degaxbur, Warder, Korahe and Fik). UK officials travel frequently to these zones, and I visited as well in Gibraltar July, although permission is needed for most travel, even in the less conflict-affected areas, and is sometimes Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for problematic. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent The Government are also extremely concerned about discussions he has had with his Spanish counterpart on the humanitarian situation in the Somali region, where Gibraltar. [70876] some 1.5 million drought-affected people need assistance. Access by humanitarian agencies is very limited due to Mr Lidington: The Secretary of State for Foreign and a combination of security threats to aid workers and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member restrictions imposed by the Somali Regional Government. for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) and I have regular We have urged the Ethiopian Government to increase contact with our Spanish counterparts on a wide range access to allow greater provision of humanitarian assistance. 877W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 878W

I raised my concerns about the situation in the Somali Pitcairn Islands region with the regional president when I visited Jijiga in late July. The Under-Secretary of State for International Development, my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for (Mr O’Brien), made similar representations to Prime Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Minister Meles in June. discussions he has had with his (a) New Zealand and (b) French counterpart on the Pitcairn Islands. [70868] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Mr Bellingham: Foreign and Commonwealth Office discussions he has had with officials from the (a) EU officials regularly liaise with their counterparts in New and (b) UN regarding human rights in Zimbabwe. Zealand, France and French Polynesia over a range of [70886] issues that affect Pitcairn, including policing, medical and shipping matters. Neither the Secretary of State Mr Bellingham: Although the Secretary of State for nor I have been involved in any of these discussions Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the right hon. ourselves. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has not personally raised the question of human rights with the Southern Sudan EU or UN in recent months, I regularly discuss Zimbabwe issues, including human rights, with EU partners. Officials are also in regular contact with EU and UN officials on Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for this issue. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many officials of his Department are based in South Sudan. The UK ambassador to the UN in Geneva raised [70907] concern about the situation in Zimbabwe in a statement at the UN Human Rights Council on 15 June. The UK will be seeking to speak at the UN Human Rights Mr Bellingham: The embassy in South Sudan is one Council on 10 October when Zimbabwe will go through of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s small posts, the Universal Periodic Review. which have five or fewer staff members including UK based civil servants and staff engaged locally. For Iran: Baha’i Faith operational and security reasons we cannot provide a more detailed breakdown. Jim McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Sri Lanka: Politics and Government representations he has made concerning the treatment of the Baha’i community in Iran, including the Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for imprisonment of community leaders by that country; Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent and if he will make a statement. [70250] discussions he has had with his Sri Lankan counterpart on the humanitarian situation in that country. [68869] Alistair Burt: We remain deeply concerned at the ongoing plight of members of the Baha’i faith in Iran, including the 20-year sentences imposed on seven Baha’i Alistair Burt: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer leaders on charges of establishing an illegal organisation, given by the Minister of State, Department for International following a trial that failed to meet international standards. Development, my right hon. Friend the Member for We are also deeply concerned about the recent closure Rutland and Melton (Mr Duncan) on 7 September of the Baha’i Institute of Higher Education and arrest 2011, Official Report, column 709W. of members of staff. These form part of a wider pattern of harassment of Baha’is in Iran. We regularly raise Sudan these issues with the Iranian authorities, including when I met the Iranian Charge d’Affaires in August this year. We will continue to press the Iranian Government to Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign accord their people full rights of religious expression. and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment he has made of the role of the (a) UN Interim Security Libya: Terrorism Force for Abyei and (b) UN Mission in Sudan in relation to the borders of Sudan and South Sudan. Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for [70724] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will discuss with his counterpart in the Libyan Transitional Mr Bellingham: The UN Interim Security Force in National Council evidence that links the former Abyei (UNISFA) has a key role. Now it has established government of Libya with the bombing of flight UTA an operating capability in Abyei, we expect to see a full 772. [70056] withdrawal by the Sudanese armed forces and the Sudan People’s Liberation Army. We welcome the 30 July Alistair Burt: The National Transitional Council has agreement by Sudan and South Sudan in Addis Ababa, stated publicly that a future Libyan Government will covering deployment of a border monitoring support investigate the crimes of the former Gaddafi regime, mission as part of UNISFA. However, the UN Security and has asked the United Nations for advice on establishing Council has not yet mandated UNISFA to monitor the a transitional justice programme. We would expect the border between Sudan and South Sudan. The UN bombing of flight UTA 772 to be included in such a Mission in Sudan ended on 9 July and is now drawing process. down. 879W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 880W

Western Sahara: Politics and Government Academies: Teachers

Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Mark Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what recent representations he has received Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will ask HM on the ability of academy schools to acquire visas for ambassador in Rabat to investigate reports of an attack foreign teachers. [70432] on journalists by the Moroccan security forces during a demonstration in El Aaiún, Western Sahara on 12 Mr Gibb: The Secretary of State for Education, my August 2011. [70036] right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), has not received any representations on the Alistair Burt: We are aware of reports of an attack on ability of academies to acquire visas for foreign teachers. journalists by the Moroccan security forces during The Young People’s Learning Agency (YPLA), as the demonstrations in Laayoune, on 12 August 2011. Our agency responsible for funding and supporting academies, ambassador in Rabat is in close contact with the Moroccan has received inquiries from three academies on the authorities at a senior level, including the new National arrangements for employing non-European economic Council of Human Rights, which is mandated to investigate area nationals as teachers. The YPLA has provided allegations of this kind. We will be monitoring its these schools with advice based on guidance available performance in advance of next year’s Security Council on the Department for Education website at: discussions on Western Sahara. http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/careers/ careeropportunities/overseas-trainedteachers/a0077487/uk- There is a regular EU-Morocco human rights dialogue border-agency-ukba-requirements-for-bringing-overseas- and we will continue to discuss human rights including trained-teachers-to-the-uk freedom of the press with Morocco bilaterally and with EU partners. Adoption Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what the average length of time was between a child being approved for adoption by the courts and EDUCATION their placement with an adoptive family for each local authority in each of the last five years. [68882] Academies Tim Loughton: Information on the average length of time between the making of a freeing order or a placement Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for order and the child’s placement with an adoptive family Education what estimate he has made of the average is shown in the following table. cost to each local authority of processing and The table shows information for each local authority implementing applications from schools for academy for the years ending 31 March 2006 to 2010, where each status. [68792] year accounts for the number of looked after children who were first placed for adoption in that year. The Mr Gibb: Careful consideration has been given to the average time is measured from the date of the freeing cost to schools’, local authorities and other organisations order or placement order, which may have occurred in involved in the conversion of schools to academy status. the same, or a previous year and the date the child was Costs to local authorities will vary depending on the placed for adoption. The table does not include those complexities of local arrangements and are, for example, children for whom a court has made a placement order associated with their responsibilities to conduct the but who are yet to be placed for adoption. TUPE consultation, land transfer and where relevant Prior to 30 December 2005 local authorities could agreeing a Commercial Transfer Agreement. We have place a child for adoption without a freeing order or sought to minimise costs by making the process simple parental consent. From 30 December 2005, local authorities and straightforward. This includes producing model can place a child for adoption only with parental consent documentation, such as leases. Each conversion is also or with a placement order. A child may be placed for assigned a dedicated Project Lead who will aim to hold adoption with parental consent before a placement early discussions with the local authorities and the order is made. Numbers and averages exclude children schools involved to agree an approach in order to make who were placed for adoption without a freeing order the conversion process as efficient and cost-effective as or were placed for adoption prior to the making of a possible. placement order.

Table 1: Average length of time between the making of a freeing order or a placement order and the child’s placement with prospective adopters during the year by local authority1,2,3,4, Years ending 31 March 2006 to 2010, Coverage: England 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Average Average Average Average Average time time time time time (days) (days) (days) (days) (days) between between between between between No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making children of a children of a children of a children of a children of a placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and year placement year placement year placement year placement year placement

England 1,730 144 2,240 135 2,790 174 2,760 203 2,330 224 881W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 882W

Table 1: Average length of time between the making of a freeing order or a placement order and the child’s placement with prospective adopters during the year by local authority1,2,3,4, Years ending 31 March 2006 to 2010, Coverage: England 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Average Average Average Average Average time time time time time (days) (days) (days) (days) (days) between between between between between No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making children of a children of a children of a children of a children of a placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and year placement year placement year placement year placement year placement

North East 130 95 160 121 170 145 230 154 170 201 Darlington 5 47 5 93 x x x x x x Durham x x 20 91 15 101 30 182 20 228 Gateshead 15 72 15 120 10 66 30 83 20 167 Hartlepool x 0 5 56 10 14 5 87 15 200 Middlesbrough 15 136 10 51 15 212 15 133 20 174 Newcastle upon 20 103 15 43 20 53 30 87 20 193 Tyne North Tyneside 15 88 15 131 15 122 30 251 10 319 Northumberland 10 36 20 109 10 120 10 111 5 192 Redcar and 10 175 5 107 10 239 10 274 5 113 Cleveland South Tyneside 20 106 25 130 25 92 25 54 20 74 Stockton-on- S 212 10 310 10 264 10 248 5 190 Tees Sunderland 10 52 15 210 25 278 30 226 25 314

North West 310 154 330 179 480 184 450 236 380 251 Blackburn with 15 93 15 202 15 218 10 230 20 250 Darwen Blackpool 15 161 25 201 20 198 20 240 10 351 Bolton 25 186 20 174 25 152 40 184 25 249 Bury 15 110 10 227 10 214 10 23 x x Cheshire5 20 88 10 105 15 165 x- x n/a n/a Cheshire East5 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 15 426 Cheshire West n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a x x and Chester5 Cumbria 15 188 20 115 30 173 25 255 35 322 Halton 0 0 x x 5 190 15 171 10 162 Knowsley 10 26 10 68 10 21 5 63 10 203 Lancashire 50 129 45 80 75 152 60 285 50 299 Liverpool 5 111 20 195 45 91 30 73 15 112 Manchester 15 123 20 117 20 326 35 213 15 62 Oldham 10 298 15 405 30 258 30 277 15 352 Rochdale 20 235 15 321 20 198 20 317 15 214 Salford 15 180 20 181 30 188 30 245 25 336 Sefton 10 45 10 91 20 200 10 392 15 252 St Helens x x x x 25 242 15 279 10 199 Stockport 15 45 15 136 20 164 15 217 15 250 Tameside 15 94 15 182 20 211 20 255 25 334 Trafford x x 5 32 5 13 15 217 x x Warrington x x 10 65 10 201 10 322 10 238 Wig an 15 482 15 520 15 259 20 393 20 296 Wirral 10 124 5 126 15 230 10 213 10 318

Yorkshire and the 400 166 320 194 400 215 360 247 350 275 Humber Barnsley 20 93 15 105 20 139 15 177 20 282 Bradford 45 143 35 321 35 203 35 240 25 294 Calderdale 15 165 20 300 20 292 15 315 15 314 Don caster 15 52 25 95 30 178 30 232 20 301 East Riding of 25 169 10 90 15 281 20 405 x x Yorkshire Kingston upon 35 95 35 174 30 253 45 240 45 325 Hull, City of Kirklees 35 261 25 209 30 253 25 253 20 242 Leeds 55 226 50 189 80 179 50 183 45 266 883W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 884W

Table 1: Average length of time between the making of a freeing order or a placement order and the child’s placement with prospective adopters during the year by local authority1,2,3,4, Years ending 31 March 2006 to 2010, Coverage: England 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Average Average Average Average Average time time time time time (days) (days) (days) (days) (days) between between between between between No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making children of a children of a children of a children of a children of a placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and year placement year placement year placement year placement year placement

North East 15 288 x x x x x x 25 260 Lincolnshire North x x x x 15 188 15 223 10 276 Lincolnshire North Yorkshire 25 161 15 307 20 281 15 196 5 124 Rotherham 30 298 15 124 15 225 15 374 35 270 Sheffield 50 215 45 175 55 242 40 328 40 324 Wakefield 20 243 15 119 20 168 15 126 20 91 York 15 105 10 208 5 164 10 90 10 154

East Midlands 100 152 190 97 280 149 210 179 190 205 Derby 20 355 35 164 25 324 35 317 40 303 Derbyshire 20 193 30 10 50 39 45 32 20 60 Leicester 15 64 20 103 20 192 20 147 20 157 Leicestershire 15 74 15 117 15 126 10 146 x x Lincolnshire 10 60 20 134 35 92 25 128 25 144 Northamptonshire 15 120 35 66 50 168 35 243 40 241 Nottingham x x 15 97 45 228 20 232 25 206 Nottinghamshire x x 15 120 40 109 20 232 20 261 Rutlandxx00xx0000

West Midlands 290 133 330 122 320 203 340 219 250 200 Birmingham 55 136 60 180 75 315 75 311 55 313 Coventry 20 292 20 86 35 224 30 238 10 245 Dudley 30 166 20 141 20 226 20 246 20 213 Herefordshire 10 246 x x 10 109 5 155 0 0 Sandwell 10 211 25 104 20 319 15 116 5 260 Shropshire 10 33 x x 10 31 x x 10 52 Solihullx x1588xxx xx x Staffordshire 25 92 45 80 30 204 35 173 25 132 Stoke-on-Trent 15 99 25 124 35 118 40 291 20 228 Telford and 10 210 15 96 x x 15 103 25 65 Wrekin Walsall 35 108 45 97 25 103 30 164 30 170 Warwickshire 15 94 20 64 15 84 20 194 20 115 Wolverhampton 30 62 15 109 15 156 20 119 20 225 Worcestershire 20 131 25 206 25 221 25 197 15 276

East of England 170 141 220 137 300 188 280 222 240 235 Bedfordshire5 x x 10 41 10 207 x x n/a n/a Bedford n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 5 64 Borough5 Central n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 0 0 Bedfordshire5 Cambridgeshire 10 51 20 135 15 126 25 126 x x Essex 50 175 55 169 50 235 45 275 40 277 Hertfordshire 15 37 20 69 50 168 45 200 30 261 Luton 0 0 10 96 15 140 15 194 5 53 Norfolk 40 152 35 155 50 152 50 273 45 213 Peterborough 5 149 25 122 35 147 25 152 35 231 Southend-on- x x x x 10 272 5 88 10 134 Sea Suffolk 40 146 40 162 60 251 60 268 60 295 Thurrock 5 0 x x 10 32 x x 5 20

London 60 65 220 72 340 139 310 161 230 223 Inner London 40 78 80 99 160 105 140 163 120 207 885W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 886W

Table 1: Average length of time between the making of a freeing order or a placement order and the child’s placement with prospective adopters during the year by local authority1,2,3,4, Years ending 31 March 2006 to 2010, Coverage: England 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Average Average Average Average Average time time time time time (days) (days) (days) (days) (days) between between between between between No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making children of a children of a children of a children of a children of a placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and year placement year placement year placement year placement year placement

Camden 0 0 x x 10 186 x x 5 55 City of London 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 x x Hackney x x x x x x 10 105 x x Hammersmith x x 15 77 5 0 x x 5 118 and Fulham Haringey x x 5 82 10 118 10 240 10 336 Islington 5 78 x x 10 109 10 226 x x Kensington and xxxx5149xxxx Chelsea Lambeth x x 10 318 10 291 20 311 20 306 Lewisham 0 0 x x 15 35 25 143 20 168 Newham 0 0 10 17 20 24 25 138 20 168 Southwark x x 10 16 25 77 20 115 15 263 Tower Hamlets x x 5 71 15 91 10 41 x x Wandsworth 10 108 x x 15 132 x x 10 246 Westminster x x 10 83 15 176 5 50 x x

Outer London 20 40 130 55 180 169 170 158 110 240 Barking and 0 0 0 0 15 106 15 177 x x Dagenham Barnet 0 0 10 63 10 107 15 185 x x Bexley x x 15 100 10 110 10 230 x x Brent 0 0 10 51 10 253 10 268 x x Bromley00xx000000 Croydon x x 10 19 15 166 10 8 x x Ealing x x 20 53 15 129 10 107 10 40 Enfield x x 20 62 15 116 10 198 10 242 Greenwich 0 0 x x x x x x 0 0 Harrow x x 10 74 5 165 15 125 10 55 Havering 5 52 x x 15 153 10 134 10 587 Hillingdon 0 0 x x 15 285 15 106 10 186 Hounslow 0 0 10 53 10 193 15 221 15 242 Kingston Upon 00xxxxxxxx Thames Merton00555xx00xx Redbridge 0 0 x x 5 158 5 259 x x Richmond Upon 00xxxx104400 Thames Sutton 0 0 x x 10 266 x x x x Waltham Forest x x x x 10 186 10 256 15 346

South East 130 118 290 141 290 159 350 203 320 176 Bracknell Forest 0 0 5 66 0 0 x x 0 0 Brighton and 10 140 15 121 20 75 30 196 20 158 Hove Buckinghamshire x x 5 77 15 229 15 224 10 182 East Sussex 5 40 . 30 102 10 68 35 277 20 157 Hampshire x x 35 144 20 179 25 183 40 205 Isle of Wight 0 0 5 74 x x 5 177 5 117 Kent 65 153 70 198 80 164 60 151 45 210 Medway Towns 15 74 10 140 25 122 15 227 10 151 Milton Keynes 15 168 10 192 10 344 10 279 10 290 Oxfordshire x x x x 15 172 20 207 20 146 Portsmouth x x x x x x 10 101 10 124 Reading x x x x 5 157 15 176 10 175 Slough x x 5 215 10 125 10 321 x x Southampton x x 10 116 10 182 15 168 20 100 887W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 888W

Table 1: Average length of time between the making of a freeing order or a placement order and the child’s placement with prospective adopters during the year by local authority1,2,3,4, Years ending 31 March 2006 to 2010, Coverage: England 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Average Average Average Average Average time time time time time (days) (days) (days) (days) (days) between between between between between No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making No. of the making children of a children of a children of a children of a children of a placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or placed for freeing or adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement adoption placement during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and during the order and year placement year placement year placement year placement year placement

Surrey 5 56 20 83 20 180 45 236 40 178 West Berkshire x x x x x x x x x x West Sussex x x 40 131 25 135 30 224 40 165 Windsor and 005113xxxxxx Maidenhead Wokingham 0 0 x x x x x x 5 252

South West 140 124 180 93 220 145 230 158 200 220 Bath and North x x 10 72 5 228 x x x x East Somerset Bournemouth 10 91 10 34 5 112 5 45 5 0 Bristol, City of 10 55 25 130 30 107 30 122 30 219 Cornwall 25 144 30 100 40 157 25 180 30 208 Devon x x 20 79 35 148 15 154 15 281 Dorset 5 115 x x x x 15 43 x x Gloucestershire 15 62 15 59 15 127 15 162 15 126 IslesofScilly0 00 00 00 00 0 North Somerset 5 71 5 111 10 285 5 191 20 223 Plymouth 25 179 15 29 15 206 40 187 25 271 Poole ’5 234 0 0 5 170 x x x x Somerset 15 67 15 168 20 86 20 190 15 265 South 0 0 x x x x 10 158 5 137 Gloucestershire Swindon 10 113 15 110 15 133 5 110 x x Torbay 10 314 5 76 10 148 15 293 10 410 Wiltshire 5 35 10 54 15 72 20 123 10 160 x = Figures not shown in order to protect confidentiality. n/a = Not applicable. 1 England and region totals have been rounded to the nearest 10. Other numbers have been rounded to the nearest five. Average time between approval for adoption and placement is shown as mean number of days. 2 Figures exclude children looked after under an agreed series of short term placements. 3 Historical data may differ from older publications. This is mainly due to the implementation of amendments and corrections sent by some local authorities after the publication date of previous materials. 4 Freeing orders were abolished with effect from 30 December 2005. Placements order were introduced when the Adoption and Children Act 2002 came into force. 5 In 2009, Cheshire local authority split into Cheshire East and Cheshire West and Chester. Similarly, Bedfordshire LA split into Bedford and Central Bedfordshire. Source: SSDA 903

Building Schools for the Future Programme Information is held centrally only in respect of the cost of building secondary schools procured as part of Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for BSF.Cost information for primary and secondary schools Education (1) what the average cost is of each procured locally is held by local authorities and cannot completed school building project under the Building be collected and aggregated without disproportionate Schools for the Future programme; [68497] cost. (2) what the average cost to the public purse was of Children: Autism building a (a) primary school of average size and (b) secondary school of average size in the latest period for Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for which figures are available. [68498] Education (1) how he expects schools to monitor the progress of children with autism, including those who Mr Gibb: The average cost of each completed school do not have a statement of special educational needs or building project under the Building Schools for the an education, health and care plan; [69570] Future (BSF) programme is £18 million. This figure is (2) whether he proposes that all children with autism drawn from data on 227 schools and includes complete will be given an action plan, including children without new build projects; part new build and part refurbishment a statement of special educational needs on an projects; and refurbishment only projects. education, health and care plan. [69571] The average cost of building a new secondary school of average size, procured through BSF is £25 million. Sarah Teather: Local authority maintained schools in This figure is drawn from data on 93 new build schools England have a duty and academies an obligation to of average size. use their best endeavours to make the special educational 889W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 890W provision called for by a child’s learning difficulties, Civil Disorder including children with autism. The provision and progress of children with statements of special educational needs (SEN) must be reviewed at least annually and the SEN Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for and disability Green Paper proposed that the provision Education what recent assessment his Department has for, and progress of, children with education, health and made of the effect on children’s services in local care plans should be reviewed regularly. authorities of the eviction of council tenants involved in the public disorder of August 2011. [70571] Schools can draw up individual education plans for children with or without statements. The Green Paper said that a revised SEN code of practice would look at Tim Loughton: Local authorities are best placed to new approaches to planning, reviewing and tracking consider how their children’s services should respond pupils’ progress which reduced the bureaucratic burdens locally to this and any other impacts following the on schools associated with individual education plans. recent public disorder. In doing so I am sure that they will take into account both their statutory responsibilities Children’s Play: Training and the needs of vulnerable children and young people in the area. Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Education for what reasons the Playwork Induction Class Sizes Standard was replaced by a system of individual qualification for playscheme employees. [68501] Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Sarah Teather: The Playwork Induction Standard did what the average class size for (a) primary and (b) not meet the standards demanded by the Early Years secondary schools was in (i) Jarrow constituency, (ii) Foundation Stage framework, when it came into force South Tyneside and (iii) England in each year since in September 2008. The framework sets the minimum 2010. [70087] requirements for staff-to-child ratios in settings delivering the Early Years Foundation Stage and the qualification Mr Gibb: The requested information is shown in the levels practitioners must hold. table.

State-funded primary and secondary schools:1,2,3 classes as taught.4 As at January each year, in England, South Tyneside local authority and Jarrow parliamentary constituency Average class size England South Tyneside local authority Jarrow parliamentary constituency State-funded State-funded State-funded State-funded State-funded State-funded primary1,2 secondary1,3 primary1,2 secondary1,3 primary1,2 secondary1,3

2010 26.4 20.5 25.4 20.5 25.3 19.2 2011 26.6 20.4 25.3 19.4 24.8 18.3 Notes: 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes primary academies. 3 Includes city technology colleges and secondary academies (including all-through academies). 4 One teacher classes as taught during a single selected period in each school on the day of the census in January. Source: School Census.

Classroom Assistants Departmental Consultants

Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what assessment he has made of the likely Education how many senior civil servants in his Department effect of the introduction of the Agency Workers and its predecessors at each grade had worked for Regulations on the practice of using unqualified PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Deloitte or teaching assistants as cover supervisors for absent KPMG immediately prior to taking up their appointment teachers. [69040] in each of the last four years; what consultancy agreements his Department and its predecessors had with those firms in each such year; and how many consultants Mr Gibb [holding answer 6 September 2011]: The from those firms have advised his Department and its Agency Worker Regulations do not change the position predecessors in each such year. [68964] on the use of cover supervisors. The role of a cover supervisor is to supervise pupils in carrying out a pre- prepared exercise but it does not involve teaching a Tim Loughton: Information on the former employment class. Therefore, those undertaking the role of cover of senior civil servants is not held centrally and could be supervisors should continue to be paid as cover supervisors. obtained only at disproportionate cost. The Department has provided guidance on its website Information on the consultancy services provided to to help those in the education sector with the the Department in the last four years (shown in financial implementation of the Regulations. The guidance is years) is set out as follows: available at: Deloitte http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/careers/ Total spend £421,000 (2008-09), £398,000 (2009-10), traininganddevelopment/a0077106/supply-teachers £294,000 (2010-11) and £172,000 (2011-12 to end July). 891W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 892W

Services provided from financial year 2010-11 onwards a reduction in administration budgets of 34% across the whole include: the provision of financial audit services on of Whitehall and its arm’s length bodies saving £5.9 billion a audit reviews of Nestor Primecare Services income and year by 2014-15; expenditure accounts for the Childcare Approval Scheme; radically reducing the number of arm’s length bodies across developing the process for due diligence reports associated government; and with the free schools agenda. KPMG the Efficiency and Reform Group’s tough new efficiency regime which will drive savings in procurement, major projects and Total spend £757,000 (2008-09), £683,000 (2009-10) estate management; and £457,000 (2010-11). Services provided from financial year 2010-11 onwards and that, in result, Departments would no longer be include: professional services consultancy, providing required to report against the previous Government’s advisory services supporting the development of Diplomas; efficiency target. information systems and technology strategy development In August 2011, the Minister for the Cabinet Office services. announced that the Efficiency and Reform Group’s PricewaterhouseCoopers new measures had saved £3.75 billion over 2010/11. Total spend £2,724,000 (2008-09), £2,536,000 (2009-10), £1,124,000 (2010-11) and £619,000 (2011-12 to end This impact was assessed using methodologies attached July). at Annex A. The assessment has been independently verified by Government auditors who found the benefits Services provided from financial year 2010-11 onwards assertions to be fairly calculated and presented. include: research and analysis services for: the evaluation of the Commissioning Support Programme and the These savings are born out in my Department’s annual Centre for Excellence and Outcomes in children and report and accounts 2010-11. young people’s services; the evaluation of Building Schools for the Future Programme; evaluation of the http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/d/ making good progress pilots—an investigation of Speech annual%20report%20and%20accounts%202010%2011.pdf and Language Therapy; services for supporting the Note 9 (a), page 83, reports that other administration Teacher Pension Services tender project; and, the supply costs for my Department reduced from £70.713 million of services to deliver the Achievement for All programme. in financial year 2009-10 to £65.868 million in financial There was no expenditure with Ernst and Young in year 2010-11. Figures in this report are prepared in those years. accordance with HM Treasury’s Financial Reporting Information on expenditure for the years before 2008-09 Manual for central Government Departments and are not readily available and could be obtained only at associated Treasury resource accounting and budgeting disproportionate cost. guidance. The Department does not hold any information, for Annex A: Activity and calculation method all years, on the number of consultants who have provided Area Activity description Evidence base/calculation advice and could only be provided at disproportionate cost. Consulting Government put in place a Savings are calculated by moratorium on new subtracting total consulting spend, and departmental reported Departmental Correspondence extensions to existing spend on consultancy for contracts. Where spend 2010/11 from total was considered departmental reported Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for operationally critical (for spend on consultancy for Education how many letters his Department received example, where it might 2009/10. To reduce the risk put at risk critical services) of costs shifting between from hon. Members in June 2011. [68759] an exception process categories, we also existed for department monitored expenditure on Tim Loughton: The total number of letters in the ministers to sign off other Professional Services expenditure over £20,000. categories, including Department for Education from hon. and right hon. contingent labour. Members in June was 1,187.

Departmental Procurement Crown Government have The method of calculation Commercial renegotiated deals with varies according to the some of the largest initiative that yields the Owen Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for suppliers to government. saving, but was based on cash releasing’ savings Education what methodology (a) his Department and against a baseline of what (b) the non-departmental public bodies for which he is would have otherwise been responsible used to estimate savings to the public purse spent. This was often price savings against the previous made in respect of its procurement and purchasing price paid. Savings agreed since May 2010. [69277] with suppliers are recorded in Memoranda of Understanding as Tim Loughton: The Chief Secretary to the Treasury, guaranteed-in-year or the right hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch conditional-in-year savings. and Strathspey (Danny Alexander), said in response to Realised savings were subsequently tracked back PQ16752, on 15 November 2010, Official Report, columns to departmental verification 615-16W, that the Government had announced a more of supplier progress reports. specific and innovative approach to efficiency and reform across the public sector, including: 893W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 894W

Annex A: Activity and calculation method Departmental Public Appointments Area Activity description Evidence base/calculation

Contingent Government have Savings are calculated by Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Labour significantly cut the subtracting total Education pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member number of temporary staff. departmental reported spend on contingent labour for Leeds North East of 16 March 2011, Official Report, for 2010/11 from total columns 423-24W, on independent review panels, in departmental reported respect of each of the reviews commissioned by his spend on contingent labour for 2009/10. Department between May 2010 and March 2011 which appointments (a) were made following a light-touch process and (b) involved a formal application and Communications Government froze all new Calculations compare selection process; and if he will make a statement. marketing spend unless it is departmental spend on an operational necessity. marketing and advertising [68189] Where spend was through COI for 2010/11 proposed, ministerial sign- with that for 2009/10. off was required for Tim Loughton [holding answer 5 September 2011]: £20,000 or above. All independent review panel appointments were based on a light-touch process. Centralising Government have started For each initiative, Procurement to centralise spend on calculations are performed Departmental Regulation common goods and using individual benefit services to drive down methodologies that set out prices. These savings derive how savings will be from the 10 categories of calculated against a 2009/10 Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for expenditure targeted for price baseline. Evidence is Education how many regulations his Department has centralisation, and relate to management information introduced (a) in the six months prior to 1 September price savings through provided by suppliers. increased aggregation. 2010 and (b) in the six months after 1 September 2010 which it has determined do not impose costs on businesses. [65319] ICT We implemented: (a) a Calculations are based on moratorium on all new departmental reports of ICT spend above £1 spend that has not Tim Loughton: In the period between 1 March 2010 million; and (b) a review of proceeded. Spend that has all on-going ICT not gone ahead in 2010/11 and 31 August 2010, the Department for Education commitments. is recorded, as a result of made 68 statutory instruments which did not impose Departments also reported stopping or reducing spend. any costs upon businesses. In the period between those projects that were Further, sustainable savings closed before undergoing are targeted through the 1 September 2010 and 28 February 2011, the Department the review. Government ICT strategy. made 28 statutory instruments which did not impose any costs upon businesses.

Major We reviewed the HMT have provided Copies of these statutory instruments can be found Projects Government’s biggest assurance that the relevant at: projects to see where amounts were removed 2010/11 costs could from departmental budgets www.legislation.gov.uk practically be reduced following the Major within contractual Projects related constraints, or wasteful negotiations. Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for projects stopped Education how many regulations that impose costs on altogether. We have halted or curtailed spend on four businesses his Department (a) introduced and (b) projects: 14-19 Reform— removed in the six months prior to 1 September 2010; £60 million Identity and what the net effect on the costs on businesses of Cards—£50 million Highways Agency such introductions and removals was. [65353] Projects—£54 million Whole Farm—£5 million We have redacted £22 Tim Loughton: In the period between 1 March 2010 million of potential double and 31 August 2010, the Department for Education counting from these figures introduced two statutory instruments which imposed that arises between this work and our supplier costs on business. In the case of both of these statutory renegotiation work stream. instruments, impact assessments were carried out which £14.9 million arises from identified the likely costs implications associated with the Home Office National Identity Cards and £6.7 their implementation. These impact assessments can be million from DEFRA viewed using the links provided. Whole Farm. The Education (Independent School Standards) (England) Regulations 2010 Property We put in place national Calculations are property http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/1997/pdfs/ property controls such that by property based on the uksiem_20101997_en.pdf signature of new property amount departments have leases or lease extensions reported saved through the Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Education, Children’s Services were approved centrally. It Government’s property and Skills (Fees and Frequency of Inspections) (Children’s has not always been database by non-renewal of Homes etc.) (Amendment) Regulations 2010 possible to net off all costs property leases at lease associated with vacating breaks or upon lease expiry. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/617/pdfs/ buildings. However, we uksiem_20100617_en.pdf have also not claimed savings in respect of None of the statutory instruments which were revoked revenuefromproperty by the Department between 1 March 2010 and 31 August disposals. 2010 imposed any costs on business. 895W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 896W

Departmental Work Experience Mr Gibb: This is a matter for the Young People’s Learning Agency (YPLA) who operate the education Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for maintenance allowance for the Department for Education. Education how many hours were worked per week by Peter Lauener, the YPLA’s chief executive, has written each intern employed by his Department under the to the hon. Member with the information requested and Cabinet Office Summer Diversity Internship a copy of his reply has been placed in the House Programme in the last 12 months. [69478] Libraries. Letter from Peter Lauener, dated 7 September 2011: Tim Loughton: Information for the Department is set I am writing in response to your Parliamentary Question out in the following table: PQ70368. As at the 31 of July 2011 the number of young people who had Length of placement Intern during period (week(s)) Hours worked received Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) in Coventry Local Authority area was 4,604. Intern 1 3 108 EMA take-up is defined as young people who have received Intern 2 3 108 one or more EMA payments in the academic year. EMA take-up Intern 3 3 101 data showing the number of young people who have received one Intern 4 3 108 or more EMA payments, broken down by local authority, during Intern 5 3 101 academic year 2010/11 is available on the YPLA website, at the Intern 6 1 36 following address: Intern 7 1 36 http://ema.ypla.gov.uk/resources/research/takeup/ Intern 8 1 36 Further information on take up for the academic years: 2004/05, Intern 9 2 72 2005/06, 2006/07, 2007/08, 2008/09 and 2009/10 can also be found Intern 10 2 72 here. Intern 11 4 144 Schools, colleges, Academies and training providers will be Intern 12 2 72 able to determine their own criteria for eligibility for discretionary Intern 13 2 72 bursaries, and for deciding the level of awards. We therefore do Intern 14 2 72 not hold data about the number of young people that are expected Intern 15 2 72 to benefit from the bursary scheme in each local authority area. We expect that in many cases providers will want to agree a Intern 16 2 72 consistent approach across an area, taking account of the needs Intern 17 2 72 and circumstances of young people locally. Intern 18 1.5 58 The bursary fund allocations that have been made for 2011/12 Total hours worked — 1,412 for schools, colleges and further providers have been published and can be found on the following website: Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.ypla.gov.uk/aboutus/ourwork/funding/allocations/ Education how many (a) persons undertaking unpaid work experience, (b) unpaid interns and (c) other persons in unpaid positions were working in his Free Schools Department as of 1 July 2011. [69519]

Tim Loughton: From 1 July 2011 until the end of Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for August 2011, the Department has had 42 unpaid work Education what the cost to the public purse has been of experience placements. The Department had no unpaid each of the free schools established to date. [70430] interns over the same period. Mr Gibb: Current estimates are that the total capital Education Maintenance Allowance costs for the 24 free schools opening in 2011 will range from £110 million to £130 million. The Department will Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for publish the full financial information for approved free Education how many students were in receipt of schools once final costs have been agreed. educational maintenance allowance in each school and college in London in 2010-11. [71246] Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what proportion of applications to establish Mr Gibb: This is a matter for the Young People’s free schools were from parent groups. [70498] Learning Agency (YPLA) who operate the education maintenance allowance for the Department for Education. Peter Lauener, the YPLA’s chief executive, will write to Mr Gibb [holding answer 7 September 2011]: There the hon. Member with the information requested and a were 323 applications in the first Free School application copy of his reply will be placed in the House Libraries. round, which closed on 11 February 2011, from a diverse range of groups. At the time we did not, however, Education Maintenance Allowance: Coventry require proposers to categorise themselves as either teachers, parents or charitable groups. Mr Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education In the second round of Free School applications, how many young people in Coventry local authority which closed on 15 June 2011, there were 281 applications area were in receipt of education maintenance allowance of which 227 were for mainstream Free Schools. 126 in academic year 2010-11; and how many young people (56%) of these applications came from local groups, in that area he expects to participate in the 16-19 where proposers have described themselves as a teacher, bursary scheme in 2011-12. [70368] parent or community group. 897W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 898W

Free Schools: Finance equivalent qualifications at the end of October. These SFRs present national and local authority level results Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for based on provisional data. Education how much of his Department’s net School and college level results are then published in expenditure on academies is to be recouped from mid-January in the Performance Tables, and further dedicated schools grant payments to local authorities SFRs are published based on final data. This follows a from September 2011. [68017] process during which schools check and confirm, or ask for amendments to, the data for which they are held to Mr Gibb [holding answer 5 September 2011]: The account. The final data also takes account of results amount recouped from local authorities through notified late by awarding organisations, the outcome of adjustments to their dedicated schools grant allocation appeals etc. increases throughout the year as more schools become academies. Headteachers: Pay Details of the first adjustment for 2011-12 financial year can be found at: Stephen Pound: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/adminandfinance/ Education whether the salaries of head teachers are financialmanagement/schoolsrevenuefunding/settlement2012 subject to the public sector pay freeze. [70050] pupilpremium/a0070267/dsg-and-pupil-premium-allocations- for-2011-12 Mr Gibb: The two-year pay freeze for all head teachers (final 2011-12 DSG allocations). At that point, the and teachers in maintained schools started on 1 September figure for 2011-12 recoupment, for both school budget 2011. The pay freeze relates to inflationary pay increases share and Local Authority Central Spend Equivalent and will cover the 2011/12 and 2012/13 academic years. Grant (LACSEG), was £2.4 billion. Details of the next adjustment in September and subsequent adjustments Staff in academies are not affected by the public will be made available at the same web-page. sector pay freeze. This is because academies are not bound by the School Teachers’ Pay and Conditions Document (STPCD) and are therefore able to set their GCSE own pay and conditions of service.

John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Music: Education Education what recent assessment he has made of the trends in academic standards in GCSE examinations. [67948] Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many (a) primary and (b) secondary Mr Gibb: The independent regulator, Ofqual, is school pupils took part in peripatetic music lessons in responsible for ensuring that standards are maintained (i) England, (ii) the West Midlands and (iii) Dudley over time. It is currently looking into issues such as Borough in each of the last 10 years; and if he will grade inflation, level of demand on candidates, marking make a statement. [69613] and international comparisons. The Government plans to reform the National Mr Gibb [holding answer 7 September 2011]: We are Curriculum and GCSEs to ensure that all our young making £82.5 million available for music education in people have an education which matches up to the best 2011-12 and are determined that this is used to ensure in the world and allows them progress to further and that every child has an opportunity to learn a musical higher study. instrument. We do not collect data centrally on the numbers of peripatetic music lessons either nationally New GCSEs will be developed reflecting the new or in specific areas. However, data supplied voluntarily National Curriculum, focusing on essential knowledge by local authorities suggests that 831,503 primary school in key subjects, with exams taken at the end of the children in England were learning a musical instrument course to support good teaching and in-depth study. in the 2009/10 academic year and a projected 880,971 were learning a musical instrument in 2010/11. GCSE: GCE A-level Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for what discussions he has had with the Secretary of State Education what his Department’s policy is on the for Communities and Local Government on the allocation timing of release of GCSE and A level results to local of music education funding to local authorities. [70401] authorities. [70159] Mr Gibb: The allocation of music education funding Mr Gibb: Summer GCSE and A level results are each to local authorities was discussed in February 2011 with released to students on a specific date in August. Awarding the Department for Communities and Local Government, organisations communicate results in confidence to the prior to the announcement of the 2011-12 music education relevant schools and colleges the day before. budget. The Department publishes Statistical First Releases (SFRs) on the overall achievements of young people in Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for GCSE examinations and other accredited qualifications Education what guidance his Department has issued to and on the overall achievement of young people in local education authorities on the funding of music GCE and Applied GCE A-level examinations and other education services. [70402] 899W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 900W

Mr Gibb: The Federation of Music Services, which is 2007 to 2009 in the Statistical First Release “Outcomes administering the Music Education Grant on behalf of for Children Looked After by Local Authorities in the Department in 2011-12, has issued guidance on the England, as at 31 March 2010” available at: funding of music education services. http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000978/ The guidance states that this funding should be used index.shtml to support frontline services for music. In order to Figures for 2009/10 are now available and will be included receive the funding, local authorities must submit a in the 2011 publication in December. declaration that the money will be used for music education. Table 1, showing local authority level figures for the In addition local authorities must provide details of academic years 2006/07 to 2009/10 for children looked their contribution to music education funding and the after continuously for at least 12 months at 31 March services that they intend to provide to children in the based on the individual child level CLA-NPD matched area, as well as showing how the Music Education dataset, has been placed in the House Libraries. Information Grant will be used to meet the Government’s objectives on years prior to 2007 is not available from this data in terms of music education. The guidance also states source. that the Music Education Grant must not be used for Prior to 2007 information was collected via the OC2 musical provision which replaces activities for which aggregate return. These figures were based on children funding is already allocated through other sources (e.g. looked after continuously for at least 12 months at 30 National Curriculum music provision, for which schools September. Information on the percentage of children are already funded). receiving a fixed exclusion is not available. The figures The full set of guidance can be found at: for the percentage of children receiving a permanent http://www.thefms.org/the-fms/professional/funding/ exclusion are not directly comparable to those from the CLA-NPD matched dataset as they have been derived Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for from a different data source and are based on a different Education how much funding has been allocated to cohort of children. Figures for 2005/06 can be found in each local authority for music education in each the SFR “Outcome Indicators for Looked-after Children, category of expenditure for 2011-12. [70403] Twelve months to 30 September 2006, England”, available at: Mr Gibb: We are making £82.5 million available for http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000727/ music education in 2011-12, of which £77 million is index.shtml going to local authorities. The Federation of Music Table 2, showing the percentage of children looked Services, the membership organisation for music services, after continuously for at least 12 months at 30 September is administering the Music Education Grant on behalf who received a permanent exclusion in 2005/06, has of the Department for 2011-12. Details of allocations been placed in the House Libraries. Where a child was of the grant to each local authority can be found on the permanently excluded more than once in the previous Federation of Music Services’ website at: school year, each occasion has been counted. http://www.thefms.org/the-fms/professional/funding/ Pupil Exclusions: Children in Care Pupils: Disadvantaged

Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what proportion of looked after children Education how many and what proportion of school were (a) temporarily and (b) permanently excluded in pupils in Coventry local authority area were in receipt each local authority area in each of the last five years. of free school meals in the latest period for which [68881] figures are available. [70367]

Tim Loughton: Information on the percentage of Mr Gibb: Information on the number of pupils known children looked after continuously for at least 12 months to be eligible for and claiming free school meals in who received a fixed exclusion and the percentage who Coventry local authority as at January 2011 is shown in received a permanent exclusion is available for the years the table.

Maintained nursery, state-funded primary, state-funded secondary and special schools, and pupil referral units:1, 2, 3, 4 Number of pupils known to be eligible for and claiming free school meals,5, 6, 7 January 2011, Coventry local authority

Pupils eligible for and claiming free school meals

Number of pupils known to be Percentage of pupils known to eligible for and claiming free be eligible for and claiming Number on roll5,6 school meals5,6 free school meals

Maintained nursery and state-funded primary schools1, 2 25,544 6,330 24.8

State-funded secondary schools1,3 17,186 3.505 20.4

Special schools4 719 303 42.1

Pupil referral units 65 20 30.8 901W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 902W

Maintained nursery, state-funded primary, state-funded secondary and special schools, and pupil referral units:1, 2, 3, 4 Number of pupils known to be eligible for and claiming free school meals,5, 6, 7 January 2011, Coventry local authority Pupils eligible for and claiming free school meals Number of pupils known to be Percentage of pupils known to eligible for and claiming free be eligible for and claiming Number on roll5,6 school meals5,6 free school meals

Total 43,514 10,158 23.3 Notes: 1. Includes middle schools as deemed. 2. Includes primary academies. 3. Includes city technology colleges and secondary academies. 4. Includes maintained and non-maintained special schools, excludes general hospital schools. 5. Includes pupils who are sole or dual main registrations. Includes boarders. In pupil referral units includes pupils registered with other providers and further education colleges. 6. Pupils who have full-time attendance and are aged 15 or under, or pupils who have part-time attendance and are aged between 5 and 15. 7. Includes maintained nursery, state-funded primary, state-funded secondary and special schools, and pupil referral units. Excludes pupils in alternative provision as full and part-time status is not collected. Source: School Census.

The latest information, for January 2011, on free Mr Gibb [holding answer 5 September 2011]: Since school meal eligibility and other school and pupil the beginning of the academy programme, there has information can be found in the “Schools, Pupils and been a principle that academies should be funded on their Characteristics: January 2011” Statistical First the same basis as maintained schools in their local area. Release at: In addition to their school budget share, Academies are http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s001012/ paid a Local Authority Central Spend Equivalent Grant index.shtml (LACSEG) to cover the costs of those services that were previously provided without charge by the local Schools: Attendance authority. Tables have been placed in the House of Libraries Mr Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for which detail the amount of LACSEG paid out in academic Education how many parental requests for authorised years 2005/06 to 2010/11 and the amount of LACSEG absence during term time were (a) approved and (b) recouped from each local authority since the inception declined in (i) Coventry education authority area, (ii) of recoupment in 2008 to 31 August 2011. Bradford education authority area, (iii) Stoke-on-Trent The two sets of figures are not comparable. Only education authority area, (iv) Wolverhampton funding for LACSEG within the Schools Budget is education authority area and (v) England in each of recouped from DSG. The bulk of LACSEG relates to the last five years. [70366] local authorities’ non-schools education budget. Up to and including 2010-11 none of this funding was recovered Mr Gibb: The Department for Education does not from local authorities. In 2011-12, £148 million was collect data on the number of parental requests for topsliced from the local government settlement. The authorised absence during term time. The Education level of the reduction to local government funding (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006 state relating to local authority LACSEG in 2011-12 and that head teachers may grant leave of absence during 2012-13 has recently been subject to a consultation. The term time. The Department looks to schools themselves Government are considering the responses to that to consider each request as they can only be judged on a consultation and the outcome will be announced shortly. case-by-case basis taking into account individual circumstances. We would not want to interfere with that Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for process. Education what his Department’s schools budget is The available absence statistics can be found in the planned to be in each year of the comprehensive ’Pupil Absence in Schools in England, Including Pupil spending review period. [68500] Characteristics: 2009/10’ Statistical First Release at: http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000994/ Tim Loughton: The current schools budget for 2011-12 index.shtml together with the current allocations as set out in Table The Department collects information on the total 7.2 of “Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2011”, number of sessions possible and the number of sessions published by HM Treasury, for the financial years 2012-13 of absence per term. It is not possible to identify to 2014-15 is set out in the following table. individual episodes of absence. School budget (dedicated schools grant and funding for academies) Financial year £ million

Schools: Finance 2011-12 37,400 2012-13 37,745 Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for 2013-14 38,158 Education how much has been allocated in local 2014-15 38,577 authority central spend equivalent grant in each local authority area to date; and how much of that grant has In addition schools will also receive the pupil premium been recouped from the dedicated schools grant to that will be worth £625 million in 2011-12 rising to each local authority. [68018] £2.5 billion in 2014-15. 903W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 904W

Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Education prevent drug use. The following table shows Frank how much was allocated to each school and college in campaign funding for the last three years for which London in 16 to 19 bursaries for 2011-12. [71248] figures are available. This excludes spending on the Frank helpline which is funded through a contract for Mr Gibb: This is a matter for the Young People’s various helplines in which the costs attributable to Learning Agency (YPLA) who operate the 16-19 Bursary FRANK are not separately identified, but are estimated Fund for the Department for Education. Peter Lauener, to be more than £800,000 per annum. the YPLA’s chief executive, will write to the hon. member with the information requested and a copy of £ million his reply will be placed in the House Libraries. 2008-09 6.97 2009-10 5.07 Schools: Tower Hamlets 2010-11 0.19

Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Supply Teachers Education if he will take steps to ensure that funding for other schools in the London Borough of Tower Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for Hamlets is not affected adversely as a result of the Education if he will take steps to ensure that agency Bethnal Green Technology College becoming an academy. worker regulations do not adversely affect the present [68708] level of flexibility available to supply teachers and local authority employers. [69045] Mr Gibb: The principle of Academy funding is that Academies receive the same level of per-pupil funding Mr Gibb [holding answer 6 September 2011]: The as they would receive from the local authority as a Agency Workers Regulations implement the requirements maintained school. They also receive funding to meet of EU Directive 2008/104/EC. The purpose of the the additional responsibilities that are no longer provided directive is to ensure the protection of temporary agency for them by the local authority. This means that others workers by applying the principles of equal treatment schools in the London borough of Tower Hamlets so that after a qualifying period, they enjoy the same would not be adversely affected if the Bethnal Green terms and conditions as teachers who have been recruited technology college converted to Academy status. directly by schools and local authorities. The Department’s guidance will help teachers, employers and agencies to Solvents: Misuse implement the regulations so that present levels of flexibility are still available for supply teachers and employers. Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether his Department has had recent Teachers: Foreign Nationals discussions with the devolved administrations on the funding of statistical information on the prevention of Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for volatile substance abuse. [70462] Education how many (a) science and (b) mathematics teachers were non-UK nationals in 2010-11. [70433] Mr Simon Burns: I have been asked to reply. The Department is reviewing its existing public health Mr Gibb: The information requested is not collected information and intelligence functions and considering centrally. what data should be collected to inform the work of Public Health England. Decisions on the data requirements Teaching Assistants for a drugs early warning system, including the collection of Volatile Substance Abuse (VSA) mortality data in Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Education the future will need to be based on the outcome of this how many teaching assistants were employed in (a) work. The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North and the British Aerosol Manufacturers’ Association East and (d) England in each year since 2010. [70088] have made representations about the importance of collecting data on VSA. Mr Gibb: The following table gives the full-time Spend by the Department on the collection and equivalent number of teaching assistants employed in publication of statistics on VSA is shown in the following publicly funded schools in Jarrow constituency, South table: Tyneside Local Authority, the North East and England in each year from 1997 to 2010. Spend (£) Up until January 2010 these figures were collected through the School Census in January of each year. The 20011-12 0 School Workforce Census was run, in its complete 2010-11 0 form, for the first time in November 2010 and is the new 2009-10 49,218 source for these figures. 2008-09 49,218 2007-08 49,218 Further school workforce statistics are available from the November 2010 School Workforce Statistical First There have been no recent discussions with the devolved Release which is available at the following web link: Administrations concerning the funding of statistical http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000997/ information on VSA. index.shtml Frank, the Government’s drug information and advice Data for November 2011 are scheduled to be published service, provides young people with knowledge to help in spring 2012. 905W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 906W

Full-time equivalent teaching assistants in service in publicly funded schools, years: January each year, 1997 to 2010, coverage: Jarrow constituency, South Tyneside local authority, the North East government office region and England Jarrow South Tyneside local North East government constituency authority office region England

From School Census January 1997 90 160 2,870 60,600 1998 90 160 2,990 65,560 1999 100 160 3,150 69,700 2000 100 180 3,450 79,050 2001 140 250 4,280 95,020 2002 200 350 4,010 105,440 2003 150 280 5,070 121,270 2004 230 420 5,660 132,240 2005 240 440 6,470 147,250 2006 260 470 6,980 153,510 2007 260 440 7,490 163,800 2008 280 460 8,100 176,990 2009 290 500 8,520 183,700 2010 280 490 8,870 194,230

From School Workforce Census1 November 2010 210 370 7,460 213,900 1 The national figure for November 2010 includes estimates for a small number of schools, including four in South Tyneside local authority, that did not make an approved School Workforce Census return. In addition an estimate was made in the national figure for a proportion of returns that did not include the FTE number of hours worked by teaching assistants that would otherwise be excluded. These estimates are not available at the constituency, local authority and regional level and have not been included. Note: Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Source: School Census (January 1997 to January 2010) and School Workforce Census (November 2010)

UN Convention on the Rights of the Child children, (b) parents, (c) childcare professionals and (d) education professionals; and whether he has made an assessment of the Government’s compliance with Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for the UK’s commitments under Article 42 of the Convention; Education (1) what recent progress his Department has made on a national action plan to address the UN [69327] Committee on the Rights of the Child’s 2008 Concluding (8) whether he has assessed the need for compulsory Observations on the UK’s compliance with the UN education on the principles and provisions of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child; [69319] Convention on the Rights of the Child as part of the (2) what assessment he has made of the UK’s progress National Curriculum; [69328] in realising the General Measures of Implementation of (9) whether he has assessed the need for compulsory the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child; [69320] education on the principles and provisions of the UN (a) (3) whether he plans to bring forward proposals to Convention on the Rights of the Child as part of (b) incorporate into domestic legislation the UN Convention initial training and continuous professional development for foundation years and education professionals. on the Rights of the Child; [69321] [69329] (4) whether he has considered bringing forward legislation for England similar to the Welsh Assembly’s Rights of Tim Loughton: This Government are committed to Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011; implementing the UN Convention on the Rights of the [69322] Child (UNCRC). On 6 December 2010, Official Report, (5) what assessment he has made of the UK’s columns 5-7WS, the Minister of State, Department for compliance with Article 4 of the UN Convention on Education, the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah the Rights of the Child with regard to protecting Teather), gave a commitment to Parliament that: children’s rights to the maximum extent of available “the Government would give due consideration to the UNCRC resources; [69323] articles when making new policy and legislation” (6) what assessment he has made of the feasibility of and that: identifying the proportion of public spending allocated “in doing so, we would always consider the UN Committee on (a) directly and (b) indirectly to children in line with the Rights of the Child’s recommendations but recognise that, recommendation by the UN Committee on the Rights like other state signatories, the UK Government and the UN of the Child; [69324] committee may at times disagree on what compliance with (7) what assessment he has made of the level of certain articles entails”. knowledge of the principles and provisions of the UN This year marks the half-way point between the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child among (a) Committee’s Concluding Observations from 2008 and 907W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 908W our next reporting due in 2014. The UK Children’s lessons that inspire their pupils, and also give schools Commissioners are due to publish an independent report much greater scope to innovate in how they teach about later this year which will provide an assessment of the important topics such as the UN Convention on the UK’s progress. The Government will want to consider Rights of the Child. their conclusions and plan next steps in light of that It is not anticipated that compulsory education on report. the principles and provisions of the UN Convention on Each of the UK jurisdictions is approaching the Rights of the Child will form part of either the implementation of the UNCRC in a way which reflects initial training or continuous professional development its own local circumstances and priorities. In England, for early education and child care professionals. However, the detailed review of the Children’s Commissioner’s candidates undertaking training and assessment in order remit and functions marked significant progress. By to attain Early Years Professional Status are required to accepting the review recommendations, the Government demonstrate that they have a sound working knowledge have signalled that they intend to strengthen the role of and understanding of current legal requirements, national the Children’s Commissioner to promote the rights of policies and guidance on health and safety, safeguarding children and young people in England. and promoting the well being of children. There are no plans to incorporate UNCRC into domestic legislation. In general the UK Government does not incorporate treaties and international conventions directly into UK law. There is no requirement in the WORK AND PENSIONS UNCRC that it be incorporated into a single piece of legislation. Our approach to deliver the UNCRC outcomes Employers’ Liability is through a mixture of legislative and policy initiatives. The analysis published by Government in March 2010, in response to the report of the Joint Committee on Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Human Rights of 20 November 2009 demonstrated Work and Pensions how much funding his Department how existing legislation underpins implementation of has allocated for the Employers Liability Insurance the UNCRC in England. Bureau in (a) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13 and (c) 2013-14; and if he will make a statement. [70248] The Welsh Assembly Government has taken the step of introducing a duty on its Ministers to have due Chris Grayling: The issues raised by an Employers regard to the UNCRC. I will be taking a very close Liability Insurance Bureau are complex and to ensure interest in how this develops. However, the UK we get this right we have been in active discussions with Government’s priority is to raise awareness of the UNCRC all stakeholders since the public consultation closed in and introduce practical measures to promote and protect May 2010. We are still carefully considering how to children’s rights. progress the matter to achieve an appropriate outcome It is not possible to provide accurate information on and we will bring forward our proposals, which will the proportion of the public spending allocated either include financial allocations, in due course. directly or indirectly to children. This is due to a number of factors, including the devolved nature of decision-making Employment and Support Allowance on spending priorities and differing ways in which budgets are allocated. However, the Department for Education’s planned expenditure on children and schools is £56.1 Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work billion in 2011-12 compared to expenditure of £45.9 and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number billion in 2006-07. of people in receipt of employment and support allowance No assessment has been made of the level of knowledge or its predecessor benefits who have been passed to of UNCRC among children, parents, child care and Working Links in each quarter of (a) 2009-10 and (b) education professionals. The Department’s website publishes 2010-11; and if he will make a statement. [70426] information about UNCRC principles and provisions. To support awareness-raising among children, the UNICEF Chris Grayling: During 2009-10 and 2010-11, claimants Rights Respecting Schools Award is a way in which of employment and support allowance and its predecessor schools can demonstrate, through self evaluation and benefits, who lived in the Jobcentre Plus districts of: external assessment, that the United Nations Convention Coventry and Warwickshire on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) is embedded in Gloucester, Wiltshire and Swindon their ethos and curriculum. £500,000 was provided by Leicestershire and Northamptonshire Government over three years to March 2010 to UNICEF West of England to support the rollout of the Award. North East Yorkshire and the Humber Learning about rights and responsibilities currently features within the National Curriculum as part of the could be referred from Jobcentre Plus to Working Links Programme of Study for citizenship. The Department via the Provider-Led Pathways to Work programme, for Education is undertaking a review of the National once they had undertaken an initial work-focused interview Curriculum in England. The purpose of this review is to with Jobcentre Plus. reform the National Curriculum and restore its original The following table shows the number of mandatory purpose so that it sets out only the essential knowledge, and voluntary starts to Provider-Led Pathways to Work concepts and processes that children should be expected in each quarter of 2009-10 and 2010-11, for customers to acquire in key subjects during the course of their who go on to start with a provider after being referred school career. This reduction in prescription will free up by Jobcentre Plus following their initial work-focused teachers to use their professionalism to design and plan interview1: 909W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 910W

on an equal basis. This analysis therefore excludes other forms of Quarter of starting PL Starts for all sharing, for example lodging in an owner-occupied house, or Pathways with Jobcentre Plus providers in GB Working Links adult children living with their parents. 2009 2. Housing benefit receipt has been analysed at household level, 1 April to 30 June 52,140 6,570 so some individuals not claiming housing benefit, but sharing accommodation with benefit claimants, have been treated as if 1 July to 30 September 48,040 7,100 they are in receipt. Only a small proportion of non-recipients 1 October to 31 December 47,100 6,600 share accommodation with claimants, so this does not have a significant impact on the estimate. 2010 3. “Private renting” includes both furnished and unfurnished 1 January to 31 March 23,810 3,700 tenancies, but excludes rent free cases. 1 April to 30 June 23,520 3,320 4. The Family Resources Survey is a nationally representative sample of approximately 23,000 households in Great Britain. 1 July to 30 September 19,770 3,760 Data for 2008-09 were collected between April 2008 and March 1 October to 31 December 14,820 2,850 2009. 5. The Family Resources Survey is known to under-record benefit 2011 receipt so the estimates presented should be treated with caution. 1 January to 31 January 520 20 6. The figures from the Family Resources Survey are based on a Total 229,720 33,930 sample of households which have been adjusted for non-response using multi-purpose grossing factors which align the Family Official statistics are routinely published for employment Resources Survey to Government Office Region population by programmes such as Pathways to Work. Official statistics age and sex. Estimates are subject to sampling error and remaining on Pathways to Work starts and job entries are currently non-response error. available up to January 2011, and are published at: 7. Figures have been rounded to the nearest percentage point. http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/ Source: index.php?page=ib_ref_p2w DWP analysis of 2008/09 Family Resources Survey 1 Source: DWP Provider-Led Pathways database. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10, totals may not sum due to rounding. Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many working households were claiming Housing Benefit housing benefit in each local authority area in Great Britain in (a) June 2010 and (b) May 2011. [71245]

Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Steve Webb: The requested information can only be Work and Pensions whether he has considered enabling provided for non-passported housing benefit recipients. self-contained studios and bedsits to qualify for the While there may be small numbers of households in local housing allowance shared accommodation rate. receipt of a passported benefit who are also in employment [70144] this information is not regularly recorded. Steve Webb: The shared accommodation rate limits A copy of the available information has been placed the level of financial help available from housing benefit in the Library. rather than deciding what type of property a person can Jobcentre Plus live in. The one bedroom shared accommodation rate is Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for based on the rents of one bedroom properties, excluding Work and Pensions (1) whether his Department publishes anything self contained but including all other one information on the number of people placed into a job room lettings. While the level at which it is set will be by each Jobcentre Plus office which they hold for more influenced by the rents of bedsits, the rents of studio than (a) six months and (b) one year; [70261] flats would have no influence as they are self-contained. (2) whether his Department publishes information However, this does not mean that all self-contained on the number of people placed into employment by accommodation will be unaffordable. Some cheaper each Jobcentre Plus office; [70262] self-contained studios or bedsits may have rents that are at or below the shared accommodation rate, and others (3) what methodology his Department uses to may be affordable if the claimant is able to make up any determine the efficacy of each Jobcentre Plus office; shortfall from other sources of income. [70263] (4) what recent estimate he has made of the average Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for cost of placing someone in a job through Jobcentre Plus Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the in the last year for which figures are available. [70264] proportion of single people aged 25 to 34 who are not in receipt of housing benefit to live in shared Chris Grayling: Jobcentre Plus does not publish accommodation. [70446] information on the number of people placed into employment by each Jobcentre Plus office, nor does it Steve Webb: It is estimated that 41% of non-student, publish information on the number of people placed single people, aged 25 to 34, who are renting in the into a job by each Jobcentre Plus office which they hold private sector, have no children and have not declared for more than (a) six months and (b) one year. housing benefit receipt are living in shared accommodation. The main measure of labour market performance is Notes: the rate at which people leave jobseeker’s allowance, 1. Shared accommodation refers to households where there is no income support and employment and support allowance clear head, for example unrelated adults sharing a house or flat and move into employment. The measure supports the 911W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 912W

Department for Work and Pensions 2011-15 Business The main measure of Jobcentre Plus labour market Plan and the coalition Government’s structural reform performance is the rate at which people leave jobseeker’s priorities. Jobcentre Plus reports on monthly progress allowance, income support and employment and support against this measure across all levels of the business. allowance and move into employment. The measure The data will be published at both a national and supports the Department for Work and Pensions 2011-15 Jobcentre Plus district level early next year. Business Plan and the coalition Government’s structural The measure of people moving into work is assessed reform priorities. using employment data from HMRC. This provides Jobcentre Plus reports on monthly progress against useful trend information but is not a complete picture this measure across all levels of the business. of all employments, and is not robust at a local level. For the very large numbers of Jobcentre Plus claimants, Jobseeker’s Allowance it is not cost-effective to measure the number of people each Jobcentre places into employment, nor what happens to them after they have been successful in finding work. Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Jobcentre managers therefore focus on maximising off-flow Work and Pensions how many sanctions applied to rates from benefit, and also receive supporting information claimants of jobseeker’s allowance have been about potential destinations from benefit. challenged by the claimant since 1997; what proportion of challenges were upheld in favour of the claimant; The Department for Work and Pensions does not and if he will make a statement. [68123] have information showing the average cost of placing a claimant in a job through Jobcentre Plus. As part of the Chris Grayling: Data on the volumes of referrals DWP business plan, the unit cost of Jobcentre Plus made to Jobcentre Plus Decision Makers for consideration labour market support per customer has been published. of sanctions is only available from April 2000. Information We are currently exploring ways to develop and present in the following table shows the proportion of decisions cost per outcome measures. determined in favour of the claimant both before challenge Richard Graham: To ask the Secretary of State for and after challenge. Work and Pensions how his Department measures the The source of the information is DWP Information success of individual Jobcentre Plus offices in finding Directorate: Sanctions and Disallowance Decisions Statistics sustainable employment for jobseekers. [70394] Database. Figures are published at: http://83.244.183.180/sanction/sanction/LIVE/tabtool.html Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions does not measure the success of individual Jobcentre The Tabulation Tool and instructions on how to use Plus offices in finding sustainable employment for it can be found on the departmental website here: jobseekers. http://83.244.183.180/100pc/tabtool.html

Referrals made for fixed, varied and entitlement decisions (thousands) by reason for referral All decisions Non-adverse Proportion of decisions in favour of the claimant Appeals Reconsiderations Appeals Reconsiderations Appeals (%) Reconsiderations (%)

Fixed length Total 12.18 124.39 1.60 66.07 13 53

2000-01 0.45 4.42 0.05 2.05 11 46 2001-02 0.40 4.40 0.01 1.92 3 44 2002-03 0.45 5.18 0.07 2.20 16 42 2003-04 0.49 5.50 0.14 2.30 29 42 2004-05 0.43 5.15 0.05 2.17 12 42 2005-06 0.51 5.49 0.08 2.27 16 41 2006-07 0.58 6.27 0.08 2.75 14 44 2007-08 0.77 7.58 0.13 3.40 17 45 2008-09 0.85 7.35 0.15 3.16 18 43 2009-10 1.67 15.45 0.21 8.49 13 55 2010-111 5.56 57.55 0.56 35.34 10 61

Varied length Total 29.55 447.48 4.67 239.69 16 54

2000-01 3.34 40.83 0.49 20.90 15 51 2001-02 3.38 44.21 0.55 22.44 16 51 2002-03 3.38 53.59 0.58 27.22 17 51 2003-04 2.74 48.40 0.49 25.29 18 52 2004-05 2.40 45.37 0.42 24.60 17 54 2005-06 2.62 39.32 0.42 21.40 16 54 2006-07 2.29 31.31 0.33 17.83 14 57 2007-08 2.34 33.45 0.40 18.61 17 56 2008-09 2.51 36.03 0.40 20.11 16 56 913W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 914W

Referrals made for fixed, varied and entitlement decisions (thousands) by reason for referral All decisions Non-adverse Proportion of decisions in favour of the claimant Appeals Reconsiderations Appeals Reconsiderations Appeals (%) Reconsiderations (%)

2009-10 2.33 32.08 0.30 17.92 13 56 2010-111 2.29 42.96 0.31 23.33 14 54

Entitlement decisions Total 17.14 79.68 3.23 38.62 19 48

2000-01 0.93 4.87 0.14 2.30 15 47 2001-02 0.69 4.33 0.11 2.17 16 50 2002-03 0.72 4.64 0.14 2.44 19 53 2003-04 0.72 4.13 0.11 2.01 15 49 2004-05 0.64 4.08 0.09 1.98 14 49 2005-06 1.01 4.55 0.14 2.18 14 48 2006-07 1.65 5.93 0.30 2.78 18 47 2007-08 2.46 8.46 0.56 3.75 23 44 2008-09 2.65 9.05 0.58 4.27 22 47 2009-10 3.02 13.80 0.57 7.37 19 53 2010-111 2.70 15.82 0.50 7.32 19 46 1 To January. Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest ten and displayed in thousands. Some additional disclosure control has been applied. Totals may not sum due to rounding method used. 2. Percentages are to the nearest unit. 3. Varied length sanctions are where the JSA claimant has their payment temporarily suspended for anything up to 26 weeks. 4. Fixed length sanctions are where the JSA claimant has their payment temporarily suspended for either 2, 4 or 26 weeks. 5. Entitlement decisions are where the JSA claimant has their entitlement to JSA ended. 6. This information is published at the DWP website: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/asd/tabtool.asp 7. Data are shown in financial years with 2010-11 containing data up to January 2011. 8. Reason for referral Sanctions for Failure to Attend Back to Work Sessions have been applied since April 2009. Flexible New Deal scheme sanctions have been applied in some parts of Great Britain since October 2009. Prior to April 2010, a Failure to Attend Advisory Interview attracted an entitlement decision. Since then, it has attracted a fixed length sanction of between one and two weeks. 9. JSA Sanction Data is available from April 2000. Source: DWP Information Directorate: JSA Sanctions and Disallowance Decisions Statistics Database.

Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for concerned. The amount of penalty in each case depends Work and Pensions how many sanctions have been on the circumstances of that claimant. Data are not applied to jobseeker’s allowance claimants since 1997; kept relating to the amount of financial penalties incurred what the type of sanction was; what financial penalties by these claimants. were imposed; and if he will make a statement. [68125] The source of the information is DWP Information Directorate: Sanctions and Disallowance Decisions Statistics Chris Grayling: Data relating to both the number and Database. Figures are published at: the type of sanctions applied to jobseeker’s allowance are only available from April 2000. The available information http://83.244.183.180/sanction/sanction/LIVE/tabtool.html is in the tables. The Tabulation Tool and instructions on how to use it All adverse decisions lead to cessation of or reduction can be found on the departmental website here: in the payment of jobseeker’s allowance to the claimants http://83.244.183.180/100pc/tabtool.html

Referrals made for fixed, varied and entitlement decisions by reason for referral—all decisions Fixed Decisions Thousand Reason for referral Losing place on training Giving up place on training scheme/employment Refusal of place on Neglect to avail of place on scheme/employment programme due to training scheme/ training scheme/ Total programme misconduct employment programme employment programme

Total 1,655.52 74.74 171.79 8.97 8.60

2000-01 69.68 8.96 13.11 1.59 2.07 2001-02 67.33 6.73 12.12 0.76 0.65 2002-03 69.81 7.41 13.48 0.64 0.45 2003-04 63.98 6.36 12.66 0.68 0.35 2004-05 58.47 5.46 11.57 0.72 0.30 2005-06 57.01 4.96 10.92 0.52 0.31 915W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 916W

Referrals made for fixed, varied and entitlement decisions by reason for referral—all decisions Fixed Decisions Thousand Reason for referral Losing place on training Giving up place on training scheme/employment Refusal of place on Neglect to avail of place on scheme/employment programme due to training scheme/ training scheme/ Total programme misconduct employment programme employment programme

2006-07 79.78 6.97 15.69 0.62 0.75 2007-08 100.60 8.82 21.08 0.81 0.99 2008-09 104.32 8.33 27.27 0.80 0.87 2009-10 213.46 5.72 20.66 0.61 0.51 2010-11 (to January) 771.04 4.98 13.18 1.24 1.39

Fixed Decisions Thousand Reason for referral Failure to attend place on Failure to attend Failure to training scheme/employment advisory interview Refusal to carry attend Back to programme (post April 2010) out a JS direction Work Session Missing

Total 584.72 388.01 87.28 331.40 *

2000-01 34.40 * 9.59 * * 2001-02 39.66 * 7.44 * * 2002-03 40.49 * 7.29 * * 2003-04 37.09 * 6.80 * * 2004-05 33.04 * 7.40 * * 2005-06 32.97 * 7.31 * * 2006-07 47.63 * 8.11 * * 2007-08 60.69 * 8.21 * * 2008-09 59.58 * 7.45 * * 2009-10 55.75 * 7.76 122.43 * 2010-11 (to January) 143.39 387.99 9.93 208.98 *

Varied Decisions Thousand Reason for referral Reason for Leaving Lost employment Neglect to avail Discharge from employment through of an opportunity Refusal of Total HM forces voluntarily misconduct of employment employment Missing

Total 3,783.21 0.42 2,355.71 692.63 1.80 732.65 *

2000-01 489.68 0.01 336.36 80.51 0.41 72.38 * 2001-02 449.44 0.03 268.49 71.21 0.21 109.46 * 2002-03 455.75 0.01 270.99 71.22 0.20 113.24 * 2003-04 359.40 0.02 228.44 59.27 0.13 71.49 * 2004-05 316.27 0.02 204.74 54.28 0.13 57.10 * 2005-06 277.17 0.02 186.90 53.18 0.09 36.95 * 2006-07 254.99 0.04 184.98 54.95 0.06 14.94 * 2007-08 276.35 * 189.06 58.77 0.07 28.40 * 2008-09 308.61 * 204.05 71.44 0.07 33.01 * 2009-10 276.08 0.01 152.77 66.42 0.10 56.75 * 2010-11 (to January) 319.52 0.03 128.93 51.35 0.31 138.88 *

Entitlement Decisions Thousand Reason for referral Failure to attend advisory interview Actively (pre April 2010)/ seeking Availability Failure to produce JSAg Trade Joint claim Total employment questions signed declaration questions disputes exemption Missing

Total 2.845.13 432.50 186.61 2,202.67 13.01 0.60 9.73 *

2000-01 248.76 16.51 21.03 209.36 1.80 0.02 0.06 * 2001-02 209.93 11.15 15.23 180.88 1.26 0.12 1.27 * 917W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 918W

Entitlement Decisions Thousand Reason for referral Failure to attend advisory interview Actively (pre April 2010)/ seeking Availability Failure to produce JSAg Trade Joint claim Total employment questions signed declaration questions disputes exemption Missing

2002-03 213.89 9.46 14.65 187.34 1.13 0.01 1.26 * 2003-04 187.89 7.94 12.82 165.27 0.66 * 1.03 * 2004-05 184.06 7.98 12.42 161.94 0.91 * 0.79 * 2005-06 212.81 9.43 14.11 187.22 0.98 0.36 0.71 * 2006-07 260.76 30.96 15.11 212.81 1.13 0.04 0.67 * 2007-08 310.78 57.91 15.87 234.99 1.31 0.01 0.67 * 2008-09 354.39 57.93 16.32 277.91 1.24 * 0.96 * 2009-10 482.57 79.90 23.58 376.68 1.09 * 1.28 * 2010-11 (to January) 179.28 143.35 25.42 8.26 1.24 * 0.99 * “*” denotes nil or negligible. Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10 and displayed in thousands. Some additional disclosure control has been applied. Totals may not sum due to rounding method used. 2. Varied length sanctions are where the JSA claimant has their payment temporarily suspended for anything up to 26 weeks 3. Fixed length sanctions are where the JSA claimant has their payment temporarily suspended for either two, four or 26 weeks. 4. Entitlement Decisions are where the JSA claimant has their entitlement lo JSA ended. 5 This information is published at the DWP website: http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/index.php?page=tabtool 6. Data is shown in financial years with 2010-11 containing data up to January 2011. 7. Reason for referral Sanctions for Failure to Attend Back to Work Sessions have been applied since April 2009. Flexible New Deal scheme sanctions have been applied in some parts of Great Britain since October 2009. Prior to April 2010. a Failure to Attend Advisory Interview attracted an entitlement decision. Since then, it has attracted a Fixed length sanction of between one and two weeks. Source: DWP Information Directorate: JSA Sanctions and Disallowance Decisions Statistics Database

Pensions: Inflation Estimates of both measures are published in the Households Below Average Income series. The following Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for table the number and percentage of pensioners in the Work and Pensions whether his Department has UK in relative and absolute low income, after housing estimated the average rate of inflation experienced by costs for the ‘anchor’ year of 1998-99 and the three most recent years for which figures are available. pensioner households. [71212] The table shows that since 1998-99 the level of absolute Steve Webb: There is no official estimate of the poverty has fallen by 21 percentage points (2.1 million average rate of inflation experienced by all pensioner pensioners) to a historic low of 8%. households. Table: Number and proportion of pensioners in the United Kingdom in low income according to relative and absolute measures, after housing costs The pensioner prices indices produced by the ONS Relative low income Absolute low income are based solely on households who receive 75% or Number Number more of their income from the state, equating to around (million) Percentage (million) Percentage 20% of retired pensioner households according to ONS. Therefore those indices do not reflect the entire pensioner 1998-99 2.9 29 2.9 29 population. 2007-08 2.0 18 1.0 9 2008-09 1.8 16 1.0 9 As variants of the RPI measure of inflation, the 2009-10 1.8 16 0.9 8 pensioner indices also employ the same methodology, which does not allow for a substitution effect and which Change 1998-99 to -1.1 -13 -2.1 -21 arguably overstate inflation as a result. 2009-10 Change 2008-09 to 0.0 0 -0.1 -1 Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009-10 Work and Pensions what recent assessment he has made of the effect of inflation on pensioner poverty. The Government recognise the pressures that those [71214] on fixed incomes such as pensioners face when prices increase. Steve Webb: The most commonly used measure of We have restored the earnings link for the basic state pensioner poverty relates to those with incomes below pension and given a “triple guarantee” so that the basic 60% of contemporary median income, after housing state pension will increase by the highest of the growth costs. in average earnings, price increases (as measured by the An alternative measure of poverty uses the 1998-99 consumer prices index) or 2.5%. The restoration of the median income held constant in real terms, after housing earnings link and the triple guarantee will benefit both costs. This is often referred to as absolute poverty. The existing and future pensioners by providing a more absolute measure gives an indication of how many generous state pension, giving a solid financial foundation pensioners are in poverty compared to 1998-99, after from the state, which is essential as part of the pensions taking account of the effects of price inflation. system. We also have a long-term commitment to uprating 919W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 920W the standard minimum guarantee aspect of pension Social Security Benefits: Musculoskeletal Disorders credit at least in line with earnings. We are protecting key support for older people: free eye tests; free NHS prescription charges; free bus passes; Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Work free television licences for those aged 75 and over and and Pensions how many people with musculoskeletal winter fuel payments will remain exactly as budgeted conditions living in each (a) region of England and for by the previous Government. We have permanently (b) country in Great Britain were in receipt of (i) increased the cold weather payment from £8.50 to £25. employment and support allowance and (ii) disability Notes: living allowance in (A) 2008, (B) 2009 and (C) 2010. 1. These statistics are based on Households Below Average Income [70534] (HBAI) data sourced from the Family Resources Survey (FRS). This uses disposable household income, adjusted using modified OECD equivalisation factors for household size and composition, as an income measure as a proxy for standard of living. Chris Grayling: The information requested is provided in the following tables: 2. In the absolute measure of poverty the low income threshold is uprated by the retail prices index excluding housing costs (ONS The number of employment and support allowance (ESA) and series CHAZ) from the 1998-99 ’anchor’ year. incapacity benefit (IB)/severe disablement allowance (SDA) recipients with diseases of the musculoskeletal system and connective 3. Net disposable incomes have been used to answer the question. tissue as main disabling condition by country in Great Britain and This includes earnings from employment and self-employment, region in England—November 2008 to November 2010 state support, income from occupational and private pensions, November November November 2010 investment income and other sources. Income tax, payments, 2008 2009 national insurance contributions, council tax/domestic rates and some other payments are deducted from incomes. IB/SDA ESA IB/SDA ESA IB/SDA ESA 4. Figures have been presented on an after housing cost basis. For Region after housing costs, housing costs are deducted from income. North East 31,200 n/a 26,580 n/a 23,480 4,970 5. All estimates are based on survey data and are therefore subject North West 67,160 n/a 57,810 n/a 51,670 12,34 to a degree of uncertainty. Small differences should be treated Yorkshire 41,240 n/a 35,450 n/a 32,130 7,850 with caution as these will be affected by sampling error and and the variability in non-response. Humber 6. The reference period for HBAI figures is the financial year. East 33,790 n/a 29,170 n/a 26,450 5,980 Midlands 7. Numbers of pensioners have been rounded to the nearest 100,000 pensioners. West 44,600 n/a 38,390 n/a 34,650 8,620 Midlands 8. Proportions of pensioners in low-income households have been East of 30,470 n/a 26,140 n/a 23,700 6,760 rounded to the nearest percentage point. England 9. Changes between periods are calculated based on unrounded London 44,820 n/a 38,800 n/a 34,950 11,450 figures and then rounded to the nearest 100,000. Therefore they South East 36,060 n/a 30,780 n/a 28,100 8,960 may differ from the difference between the rounded figures. South West 30,690 n/a 26,610 n/a 24,210 5,950

Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the Country proportion of people who will opt out of automatic England 360,040 n/a 309,720 n/a 279,340 72,880 enrolment in each year from 2012 to 2017; and what Wales 37,010 n/a 31,890 n/a 28,660 5,870 effect opting out will have on the cost to the public Scotland 42,600 n/a 36,230 n/a 32,200 7,480 purse of automatic enrolment. [71215] Unknown/ 2,800 n/a 2,530 n/a 2,230 60 Abroad Steve Webb: In 2009, the Department commissioned n/a = not applicable Notes: a nationally representative survey of individuals eligible 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Totals may not sum due to for automatic-enrolment to measure their intended response. rounding. The results from the survey on expected opt-out are 2. To qualify for incapacity benefit, claimants have to undertake a presented in the following table: medical assessment of incapacity for work called a personal capability assessment. Under the employment support allowance regime, new claimants have to undergo the work capability Participation Proportion (%) assessment. From April 2011 incapacity benefit recipients will begin Definitely stay in 31 also to undertake this assessment. The medical condition recorded on the claim form does not itself confer entitlement to IB or ESA. Probably stay in 34 So, for example, a decision on entitlement for a customer claiming Probably choose to opt out 12 IB or ESA on the basis of mental and behavioural disorders would Definitely choose to opt out 9 be based on their ability to carry out the range of activities assessed It depends 15 by the personal/work capability assessment. 3. incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support allowance from October 2008. If opt-out were 0%, this would increase tax-relief 4. Figures by medical condition are not available for employment resulting from additional pension saving by an estimated support allowance prior to 2010. £650 million between 2012-13 and 2016-17 (at 2011-12 5. Data include people in receipt of benefit and also those who fail the contributions conditions but receive a national insurance credit, earnings levels). There would also be a relatively marginal i.e. ‘credits only cases’. increase in the administrative costs associated with operating Source: NEST (the National Employment Savings Trust). DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS 921W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 922W

The number of disability living allowance (DLA) recipients with HM Revenue and Customs plans to write to couples musculoskeletal conditions as main disabling condition by country in with children, currently claiming working tax credit, Great Britain and region in England—November 2008 to November 2010 who are most likely to be affected by the changes announced in the comprehensive spending review. The November November November 2008 2009 2010 letter will explain the changes to the working hours conditions and advise them what steps they can take to Region ensure they continue to be entitled. Letters will be sent North East 71,000 70,800 70,300 later this year. North West 180,900 182,300 181,100 Yorkshire and 111,800 111,700 110,300 the Humber HEALTH East Midlands 86,000 86,000 85,600 Accident and Emergency Departments West Midlands 113,800 113,600 113,400 East of England 68,800 68,800 69,200 Mr Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health London 87,900 90,500 91,100 (1) how many (a) adults and (b) children were admitted South East 85,700 88,100 89,900 to accident and emergency departments in each hospital South West 73,000 74,200 74,800 trust in the west midlands and Warwickshire as a result of an assault with a sharp or blunt object; [70357] Country (2) how many (a) adults and (b) children were admitted to accident and emergency departments in England 878,700 886,000 885,600 each hospital trust in the west midlands and Warwickshire Wales 105,000 104,600 104,400 as a result of intentional self-harming or self-poisoning Scotland 106,700 107,900 108,500 in each of the last five years; [70358] Unknown/ 1100 2— 2— Abroad (3) how many (a) adults and (b) children were 1 Figures 500 and under. These figures are subject to a high degree of admitted to accident and emergency departments in sampling error and should only be used as a guide. each hospital trust in the west midlands and 2 Denotes nil or negligible. Warwickshire as a result of firework-related injury in Notes: each of the last five years. [70360] 1. The preferred statistics on benefits are now derived from 100% data sources. However, the 5% sample data still provide some detail Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not not yet available from the 100% data sources, in particular, more complete information on the disabling condition of DLA claimants. held by the Department. The National Health Service DWP recommends that, where the detail is only available on the 5% Information Centre for health and social care provides sample data, or disabling condition is required, the proportions Accident and Emergency Hospital Episode Statistics derived should be scaled up to the overall 100% total for the benefit. data for the years 2007-08 to 2009-10. This document These figures ’have been scaled up to the overall total. has been placed in the Library. 2. Caseloads are rounded to the nearest 100. 3. Figures show the number of people in receipt of an allowance, Mr Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and exclude people with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. (1) how many (a) adults and (b) children were admitted 4. Where more than one disability is present only the main disabling to accident and emergency departments in each hospital condition is recorded. trust in the West Midlands and Warwickshire as a result Source: of drowning and submersion whilst in a swimming pool DWP Information Directorate 5% sample or natural water in each of the last five years; [70359] Telephones (2) how many (a) adults and (b) children were admitted to accident and emergency departments in each hospital trust in the West Midlands and Warwickshire Mr Davidson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work as a result of evidence of alcohol involvement determined and Pensions how much revenue was obtained by his by (i) level of intoxication and (ii) blood alcohol level in Department from telephone calls from members of the each of the last five years; [70361] public to his Department’s 0800, 0845 and 0870 (3) how many (a) adults and (b) children were telephone numbers in the last 12 months for which admitted to accident and emergency departments in figures are available. [70044] each hospital trust in the West Midlands and Warwickshire as a result of attacks by dogs in each of the last five Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions years; [70362] (DWP) does not receive any revenue through the use of (4) what estimate he has made for the redundancy 0800, 0845 and 0870 telephone numbers. costs of staff of Coventry Primary Care Trust who will be eligible for employment by GP commissioning consortia. Working Tax Credit: Parents [70388] Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for held by the Department. Work and Pensions whether he plans to inform couples Asthma: Ipswich who claim working tax credit on the basis of between 16 and 24 hours work a week that their entitlement to Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health working tax credit will be ended on 5 April 2012 unless how many patients with asthma have been seen by a their hours of work are over 24 a week. [70471] consultant at Ipswich Hospital in each year since 2000; and how many such patients were under the age of 16 Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply. years. [70221] 923W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 924W

Paul Burstow: A count of finished consultant episodes not include patients treated in an out-patient setting for where the primary diagnosis was asthma for all patients, asthma, nor does it include in-patients where asthma aged 15 and under, and 16 and over, at Ipswich Hospitals was recorded as a secondary diagnosis. NHS Trust is shown in the following table. This does

Activity in English NHS Hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector Finished consultant episodes All Ages 15 and under 16+

2000-01 469 169 300 2001-02 482 198 284 2002-03 545 190 355 2003-04 546 169 377 2004-05 510 190 320 2005-06 418 167 251 2006-07 410 157 253 2007-08 337 107 230 2008-09 418 151 267 2009-10 437 106 331 Notes: 1. Finished consultant episode (FCE): FCE is a continuous period of admitted patient care under one consultant within one health care provider. FCEs are counted against the year in which they end. Figures do not represent the number of different patients, as a person may have more than one episode of care within the same stay in hospital or in different stays in the same year. 2. Primary diagnosis: The primary diagnosis is the first of up to 20 (14 from 2002-03 to 2006-07 and seven prior to 2002-03) diagnosis fields in the Hospital Episode Statistics (HES) data set and provides the main reason why the patient was admitted to hospital. ICD-10 codes for asthma are as follows: J45.0 Predominantly allergic asthma J45.1 Nonallergic asthma J45.8 Mixed asthma J45.9 Asthma, unspecified J46.X Status asthmaticus 3. Data quality: HES are compiled from data sent by more than 300 NHS trusts and primary care trusts in England and from some independent sector organisations for activity commissioned by the English NHS. 4. Assessing growth through time: HES figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. Changes to the figures over time need to be interpreted in the contextof improvements in data quality and coverage (particularly in earlier years), improvements in coverage of independent sector activity (particularly from 2006-07) and changes in NHS practice. For example, apparent reductions in activity may be due to a number of procedures which may now be undertaken in out-patient settings and so no longer include in admitted patient HES data. 5. In-patients: In-patients are patients who are admitted to hospital and occupy a bed, including both admissions where an overnight stay is planned and day cases. Source: Hospital Episode Statistics. The Information Centre for health and social care

Asthma: Suffolk The national Quality and Outcomes Framework (QOF) records the number of people on general practice registers Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health with asthma. Patients may have been diagnosed at any how many people in each district in Suffolk have been time. These register counts are available for the last six diagnosed with asthma since 2000. [70030] financial years, beginning in 2004-05, by the primary care trusts (PCTs) covering the county of Suffolk. The Paul Burstow: Information is not available in the information is shown in the following table. format requested.

Number of patients on the asthma registers of practices within PCTs in Suffolk Primary care trust Financial year Central Suffolk Ipswich Suffolk Coastal Suffolk West Suffolk1 Total

2004-05 6,732 10,617 6,013 15,271 n/a 38,633 2005-06 6,680 10,352 6,253 15,281 n/a 38,566 2006-07 n/a n/a n/a n/a 38,676 38,676 2007-08 n/a n/a n/a n/a 38,561 38,561 2008-09 n/a n/a n/a n/a 39,950 39,950 2009-10 n/a n/a n/a n/a 40,004 40,004 1 From 2006-07. Notes: 1. In October 2006 there was a re-organisation of PCTs and the existing PCTs in Suffolk were amalgamated into one, Suffolk PCT. 2. The asthma register covers patients with asthma excluding patients with asthma who have been prescribed no asthma-related drugs in the previous 12 months. 3. QOF was introduced as part of the new general medical services (GMS) contract on 1 April 2004. Participation by practices in the QOF is voluntary, though participation rates are very high, with most personal medical services (PMS) practices also taking part. 4. The published QOF information was derived from the Quality Management Analysis System (QMAS), a national information technology system developedby NHS Connecting for Health. QMAS uses data from general practices to calculate individual practices’ QOF achievement. 5. QMAS captures the number of patients on the various disease registers for each practice. The number of patients on the clinical registers can be used to calculate measures of disease prevalence, expressing the number of patients on each register as a percentage of the number of patients on practices’ lists. 6. Patients will only contribute to the figures in QOF if they are registered with a general practice participating in QOF. Not all practices participate in QOF and some participate in only some parts (especially PMS practices, which are paid under different arrangements for providing services which are part of QOF for GMS practices). Most indicators in QOF have rules that allow for patients to be excluded (e.g. patient refuses treatment) and so the denominator for a given indicator may be less than the number of patients on the register for that disease. It should be noted that some indicators have age limits and so exclude some patients on the register. Source: QOF, The NHS Information Centre for health and social care 925W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 926W

Bladder Cancer Mr Simon Burns: Amendments to the designation and insolvency elements of the Bill were brought forward Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for at Commons Report stage where Parliament had the Health what steps his Department is taking to raise opportunity to debate them and put them into the Bill. awareness of the symptoms of bladder cancer. [70162] Health Research Authority Mr Simon Burns: Improving public awareness of the signs and symptoms of cancer and encouraging people Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for to visit their general practitioner when they have symptoms Health what the (a) duties, (b) budget and (c) key is a key ambition of ‘Improving Outcomes: A Strategy personnel are of the Health Research Authority. for Cancer’, published on 12 January 2011. [71111] On 28 June 2011, we wrote to all primary care trusts to invite bids for funding to run local awareness campaigns Mr Simon Burns: The Health Research Authority will on three issues, which included the symptom of blood be established this year as a Special Health Authority in the urine. This symptom is common to a number of with the National Research Ethics Service as its core. It cancers, including bladder cancer. will be responsible for appointing, supporting and managing We expect the projects to run from early 2012 and are research ethics committees. It will also work closely in the process of finalising decisions on all trust bids. with other bodies, such as the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, to create a unified approval Breast Cancer: Screening process and promote proportionate standards for compliance and inspection within a consistent national Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Health system of research governance. The planned budget for how many (a) mobile and (b) fixed breast screening the Health Research Authority is £10.1 million. It will units there are in the (i) NHS and (ii) private healthcare have 25 head office posts and approximately 100 further sector. [70141] staff in National Research Ethics Service regional centres.

Mr Simon Burns: Each of the 81 local breast screening HIV Infection programmes has at least one static unit but some centres have more than one location; each with an x-ray set. Stephen Gilbert: To ask the Secretary of State for According to data supplied by NHS Cancer Screening Health what requirements there are for (a) GPs, (b) Programmes there are 312 x-ray sets in static locations dentists, (c) nurses and (d) social care workers to and 152 sets in 151 mobile units. receive training on HIV; and what (i) undergraduate The Department does not hold data on the number and (ii) postgraduate courses provide HIV-specific of x-ray sets maintained for symptomatic services and it training for healthcare professionals in each such does not collect information regarding the number of category. [71025] sets within the private sector. Anne Milton: The content and standard of healthcare Diseases training is the responsibility of the independent regulatory bodies for the healthcare professions. Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Through their role as the custodians of quality standards who will represent the Government at the UN in education and practice, the profession regulators are high-level meeting on non-communicable diseases in committed to ensuring high quality patient care delivered September 2011. [70049] by high quality health professionals and that healthcare professionals are equipped with the knowledge, skills Anne Milton: The Secretary of State for Health, my and behaviours required to deal with the problems and right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire conditions they will encounter in practice, including (Mr Lansley) will represent the Government at the HIV and AIDS. United Nations high-level meeting on non-communicable The House of Lords ad hoc Select Committee on diseases in September 2011. He will be supported by HIV and AIDS issued a report on the 1 September officials from the Department of Health and the 2011. The report includes 60 recommendations some of Department for International Development. The decision which include a review of certain aspects of training on the composition of this small team has taken into and education of healthcare professionals. The Department account how best to represent the United Kingdom’s will respond to the recommendations raised in the interests, given the domestic and global priority attached report later this year. to tackling non-communicable diseases, as well as the need for the efficient use of taxpayers’ money in funding overseas trips. IVF

Health and Social Care Bill Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many cycles of IVF each primary care Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for trust offers to eligible couples under the age of 40 Health whether he plans to bring forward amendments years. [71205] to the (a) Designated Services and (b) Insolvency and Health Special Administration chapter of the Health Anne Milton: This information is no longer collected and Social Care Bill. [69209] centrally. 927W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 928W

The Department has previously published this around individuals, rather than isolated services, which information in their report “Primary Care Trust survey— can particularly improve the experience of the people provision of IVF in England 2008”, which has been with needs that can require action across multiple services. placed in the Library and is available on the Department’s website at: Monitor: Finance www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/ documents/digitalasset/dh_101074.pdf Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Primary care trusts are well aware of their statutory Health whether he intends to publish information on commissioning responsibilities and the need to base Monitor’s expected operating budget in the first commissioning decisions on clinical evidence and financial year following enactment of the Health and discussions with local general practitioner commissioners, Social Care Bill. [69210] secondary care clinicians and providers, having regard to the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence Mr Simon Burns: The Government published a revised fertility guidelines, including the recommendation that impact assessment on 8 September 2011 for the Health up to three cycles of in vitro fertilisation are offered to and Social Care Bill following the Bill’s introduction to eligible couples where the woman is aged between 23 the House of Lords. The impact assessment contains and 39. information on the expected costs of running Monitor.

KPMG Multiple Sclerosis: Drugs

Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what contracts KPMG currently holds with his pursuant to the answer of 13 June 2011, Official Report, columns 646-48W on Sativex, what definition of a Department. [70086] prescription item was used in the answer; and whether Mr Simon Burns: The Department holds the following the information given in the Answer referred to (a) 5ml information on its central systems about current contracts bottles of Sativex, (b) 10ml bottles of Sativex and (c) with KPMG LLP. other prescribed doses of Sativex. [70480]

Maximum Mr Simon Burns: Prescriptions are written on a Approval/ contract value prescription form known as a FP10. Each single item Contract description start date (£) written on the form is counted as a prescription item. An item does not refer to the amount being prescribed Services concerning accounting 23 March 105,000 and audit at the East of England 2011 and therefore an item could be a number of doses, a Ambulance Service NHS Trust single vial or multiple vials. Accountancy services concerning 1 July 2011 105,000 transition due diligence at the Musculoskeletal Disorders Cambridgeshire Community Services NHS Trust Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Accountancy services concerning 17 August 102,129 what assessment his Department has made of the effects transition due diligence at the 2011 of changing levels of prevalence of musculoskeletal Great Western Ambulance Service NHS Trust conditions on the national health service; and if he will make a statement. [70409] Learning Disability Paul Burstow: National health service commissioners are responsible for assessing the changing needs of their Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for Health populations and for commissioning appropriate services what steps his Department is taking to ensure that (a) within available resources. Information on the national Health and Wellbeing Boards and (b) GP consortia prevalence of the major musculoskeletal conditions is identify the (i) needs and (ii) number of people with available from various publicly available sources. In profound and multiple learning disabilities in their assessing the overall funding needed for the NHS, the locality; and if he will make a statement. [70038] Department takes into account a range of factors including changes in demand resulting from the changing health Paul Burstow: Local authorities, clinical commissioning needs of an aging population. groups and local communities, through the health and wellbeing board, will have a duty to involve users and NHS: Crimes of Violence the public when developing the Joint Strategic Needs Assessment (JSNA). The JSNA should include a Mr Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for comprehensive analysis of health and social care needs Health how many violent attacks there were by patients in their local area including those of vulnerable groups on (a) other patients and (b) staff in each hospital such as people with multiple learning difficulties. trust in the west midlands and Warwickshire in each of Clinical commissioning groups and local authorities the last five years. [70356] will, subject to the passage of the Bill, also be under a duty to agree a joint health and wellbeing strategy Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not which will inform their commissioning plans. held by the Department. Data on violence against national In the development of the JSNA and the joint health health service staff are available on the NHS Business and wellbeing strategy, the health and wellbeing board Services Authority website at the following address: will be able to consider how to help services join up www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/SecurityManagement/2286.aspx 929W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 930W

NHS: Manpower England at 30 September each year. The numbers of general practitioners (GPs), dentists, nurses and doctors Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health employed in the Jarrow constituency are not available, how many (a) GPs, (b) NHS dentists, (c) NHS nurses however, Jarrow is contained within the trusts shown in and (d) NHS doctors have been employed in (i) the the following tables. The numbers for South Tyneside Jarrow constituency, (ii) South Tyneside, (iii) the North Primary Care Trust (PCT) and NHS Foundation Trust, East and (iv) England and Wales in each year since the North East Strategic Health Authority and England 1997. [70095] are shown in the following tables: Mr Simon Burns: The annual NHS work force census collects the number of staff employed in the NHS in

Number of GPs, NHS nurses and NHS doctors in selected areas1 in England, 1997-2010 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

General practitioners3 England 28,046 28,251 28,467 28,593 28,802 29,202 30,358 of which: North East Strategic 1,432 1,426 1,446 1,453 1,514 1,535 1,611 Health Authority area of which:

Gateshead Health RR7 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a NHS Trust Gateshead PCT 5KF n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 122 127 South Tyneside RE9 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a NHS Foundation Trust South Tyneside 5KG n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 84 88 PCT

GP practice nurses

England 18,389 18,894 19,495 19,200 19,846 20,983 21,667 of which:

North East Strategic 807 954 1,002 881 942 1,031 1,117 Health Authority area of which:

Gateshead Health RR7 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a NHS Trust Gateshead PCT 5KF n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 104 109 South Tyneside RE9 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a NHS Foundation Trust South Tyneside 5KG n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 77 80 PCT

Hospital and Community Health Services (HCHS): medical and dental staff4, 5 England 60,230 62,140 63,994 66,067 68,484 72,168 76,400 of which:

North East Strategic 3,548 3,542 3,749 3,953 4,053 4,178 4,330 Health Authority area of which:

Gateshead Health RR7 179 206 199 210 209 208 235 NHS Trust Gateshead PCT5 5KF n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 12 13 South Tyneside RE9 141 131 157 176 242 218 220 NHS Foundation Trust South Tyneside 5KG n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 13 10 PCT5 931W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 932W

Number of GPs, NHS nurses and NHS doctors in selected areas1 in England, 1997-2010 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Hospital and Community Health Services (HCHS): Qualified Nursing Staff5, 6 England 300,467 304,563 310,142 316,752 330,535 346,537 364,692 of which:

North East Strategic 17,791 18,079 18,870 19,125 20,035 20,473 20,991 Health Authority area of which:

Gateshead Health RR7 n/a 1,201 1,179 1,196 1,226 943 969 NHS Trust Gateshead PCT5 5KF n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 230 237 South Tyneside RE9 905 854 899 891 916 615 624 NHS Foundation Trust South Tyneside 5KG n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 180 185 PCT5

2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 20102

General practitioners3 England 31,523 32,738 33,091 33,364 34,010 35,917 35,120 of which: North East Strategic 1,678 1,726 1,815 1,779 1,814 1,891 1,844 Health Authority area of which: Gateshead Health RR7 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a NHS Trust Gateshead PCT 5KF 128 128 134 143 148 152 155 South Tyneside RE9 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a NHS Foundation Trust South Tyneside 5KG 88 97 100 97 100 107 105 PCT

GP practice nurses England 22,144 22,904 23,797 22,860 22,048 21,935 21,325 of which: North East Strategic 1,124 1,064 1,167 1,123 1,099 1,224 1,097 Health Authority area of which: Gateshead Health RR7 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a NHS Trust Gateshead PCT 5KF 102 112 95 95 82 118 80 South Tyneside RE9 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a NHS Foundation Trust South Tyneside 5KG72665454477351 PCT

Hospital and Community Health Services (HCHS): medical and dental staff4, 5 England 82,951 87,043 90,243 91,790 95,942 100,628 101,917 of which: North East Strategic 4,699 4,764 4,942 5,145 5,367 5,686 5,820 Health Authority area of which: Gateshead Health RR7 248 267 264 288 309 327 335 NHS Trust Gateshead PCT5 5KF 15 15 12 12 11 10 34 933W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 934W

2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 20102

South Tyneside RE9 231 137 145 163 173 184 193 NHS Foundation Trust

South Tyneside 5KG10999891 PCT5

Hospital and Community Health Services (HCHS): Qualified Nursing Staff5, 6

England 375,371 381,257 374,538 376,737 386,112 395,229 389,290 of which:

North East Strategic 22,065 22,291 22,220 22,296 22,937 23,153 22,882 Health Authority area of which:

Gateshead Health RR7 1,002 1,044 993 1,048 1,095 1,184 1,036 NHS Trust

Gateshead PCT5 5KF 253 306 325 379 387 423 1,274

South Tyneside RE9 625 639 612 550 540 543 565 NHS Foundation Trust

South Tyneside 5KG 251 241 235 253 250 261 1 PCT5 n/a = Denotes not applicable 1 NHS Workforce data is not available at constituency level. Jarrow is contained within and serviced by the trusts provided here. 2 The new headcount methodology for 2010 data is not fully comparable with previous years data due to improvements that make it a more stringent count of absolute staff numbers. 3 General practitioners (excluding retainers and registrars). 4 Excludes medical hospital practitioners and medical clinical assistants, most of whom are GPs working part time in hospitals. 5 As part of the changes that are currently effecting the organisational structure of the NHS the legally defined PCTs have clustered into larger regional units to provide a more consistent approach to care in their local health economy and to benefit from the savings such as shared management teams that this offers. In the case of the PCTs in the North East of England these changes have been present for some time and this can be seen in the increases and decreases in staff numbers (for example qualified nurses) across the PCTs as provision has been centred on one of the local PCTs within the cluster. 6 Nursing figures include Bank staff. Notes: 1. GP Data as 1 October 1997-99 and 30 September 2000-10. 2. All other figures as at 30 September each year. 3. PCTs did not exist prior to 2002, before this comparable figures are not available. Data Quality: The NHS Information Centre for health and social care seeks to minimise inaccuracies and the effect of missing and invalid data but responsibility for data accuracy lies within the organisations providing the data. Methods are continually being updated to improve data quality. Where changes impact on figures already published, this is assessed but unless it is significant at national level figures are not changed. Impact at detailed or local level is footnoted in relevant analyses. Sources: 1. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care General and Personal Medical Services Statistics 2. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care Medical and Dental Workforce Census 3. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care Non-medical Workforce Census

Number of GDS and PDS dentists1 by strategic health authority (SHA) and primary care trust (PCT), for selected organisations2 in England, as at 31 March each year Strategic health authority/primary care trust 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006

England 16,470 16,932 17,475 17,988 18,353 18,657 18,801 19,026 19,797 21,111

Q09 Northumberland, 461 474 485 487 495 511 520 529 549 555 Tyne and Wear SHA

of which: 5KF Gateshead PCT 81 87 88 87 94 87 85 86 78 78 5KG South Tyneside 60 59 61 63 61 62 64 60 61 74 PCT 935W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 936W

Number of GDS and PDS dentists1 by strategic health authority (SHA) and primary care trust (PCT), for selected organisations2 in England, as at 31 March each year Strategic health authority/primary care trust 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006

Q10 County Durham 54 364 368 375 376 383 386 395 400 420 and Tees Valley SHA 1 This information is based on the old dental contractual arrangements, which were in place up to and including 31 March 2006. 2 NHS Workforce data is not available at constituency level. Jarrow is contained within and serviced by the trusts provided here. Notes: 1. The postcode of the dental practice was used to allocate dentists to specific geographic areas. PCT and SHA areas have been defined using the Office for National Statistics All Fields Postcode Directory. 2. Dentists consist of principals, assistant and trainees. Information on NHS dentistry in the community dental service, in hospitals and in prisons are excluded. 3. The data in this report are based on NHS dentists on PCT lists. These details were passed on to the BSA who paid dentists based on activity undertaken. A dentist can provide as little or as much NHS treatment as he or she chooses or has agreed with the PCT. In some cases an NHS dentist may appear on a PCT list but not perform any NHS work in that period. Most NHS dentists do some private work. The data does not take into account the proportion of NHS work undertaken by dentists. 4. Figures for the numbers of dentists al specified dates may vary depending on the date the figures are compiled. This is because the NHS Business Services Authority (BSA) may be notified of joiners or leavers to or from the GDS or PDS up to several months, or more, after the move has taken place. 5. SHA and PCT data include all dentists practising in that area. Some dentists may have an open GDS or PDS contract in more than one PCT or SHA and therefore they have been counted more than once. The total number of dentists given for England does not include duplication. 6. The boundaries used are as at 31 March 2006. Sources: 1. The Information Centre for health and social care. 2. NHS Business Services Authority (BSA).

NHS: Redundancy headcount and full-time equivalent figures from the NHS Information Centre annual census as at 30 September Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2010. how much his Department has spent on redundancy Qualified Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting Staff packages for staff in the NHS who have gone on to Headcount Full-time equivalent work in another role in the NHS within (a) three, (b) six and (c) 12 months in each of the last three years. England 389,290 322,190 [69738] North East Strategic 22,882 19,872 Mr Simon Burns: Information on the amount of Health Authority expenditure on redundancy packages for national health North West Strategic 59,247 50,040 service staff who have gone on to work in another NHS Health Authority role is not collected centrally. Yorkshire and the 39,861 33,491 Humber Strategic NHS: Reorganisation Health Authority East Midlands 28,693 24,086 Strategic Health Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State Authority for Health whether there will be a neurology advisory West Midlands 42,253 34,647 group within the NHS Commissioning Board, as part Strategic Health of the new NHS structure to be established under the Authority provisions of the Health and Social Care Bill. [70411] East of England 36,582 29,691 Strategic Health Mr Simon Burns: Professional and clinical leadership Authority London Strategic 67,450 56,226 and advice will be central to the decisions made by the Health Authority NHS Commissioning Board. ‘Developing the NHS South East Coast 27,165 21,763 Commissioning Board’ sets out the intention to structure Strategic Health the board around the five domains of the outcomes Authority framework, with clear arrangements for key service South Central 25,962 20,980 Strategic Health areas that would gain particular benefit from dedicated Authority professional and clinical leadership. The NHS South West Strategic 37,357 29,781 Commissioning Board, once established in legislation, Health Authority will determine the governance structures for these service Special Health 2,058 1,612 areas. Authorities and other statutory Nurses: Manpower bodies Note: As at 30 September 2010 Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many nurses are currently employed in NHS hospitals Local healthcare organisations know the healthcare in each region; and what estimate his Department has needs and priorities of their local populations. They are made of the number which will be employed in 2014-15. best placed to determine the work force required to [70077] deliver safe patient care within their available resources. Strategic health authorities (SHAs) produce integrated Anne Milton: Owing to the way the numbers of staff plans for their own areas and as part of the 2011-12 employed is reported, it is not possible to separate integrated planning process, the Department has agreed nurses from the all qualified nursing, midwifery and and signed off the SHA integrated plans for 2011-12. health visiting staff group. The following table gives the These will be published shortly. 937W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 938W

Obesity: Health Services actively engaged in sport or physical activity as part of, or associated with, their NHS employment, by the time Conor Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for Health of the Olympics in 2012. whether he has any plans to review the regulation by the Solvents: Misuse Care Quality Commission of organisations that offer medical anti-obesity services. [69566] Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many deaths there have been arising from volatile Mr Simon Burns: The scope of registration by the substance abuse (a) nationwide, (b) in each region, Care Quality Commission is set out in the Health and (c) by age group, (d) by sex and (e) by substance Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated Activities) Regulations determined as the cause of death in each of the last five 2010. The regulated activities include: years. [70469] treatment of disease, disorder or injury by, or under the supervision of, a specified health care professional; Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. surgical procedures carried out by a health care professional The information requested falls within the responsibility for the purposes of treating disease, disorder or injury or for cosmetic purposes; and of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. services in slimming clinics by or under the direction of a medical practitioner, where that includes the prescribing of Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated September 2011: weight reduction medication. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I All providers of regulated activities must be registered have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking with the Care Quality Commission and meet 16 essential how many deaths there have been arising from volatile substance requirements of safety and quality. abuse (a) nationwide, (b) in each region, (c) by age group, (d) by sex and (e) by substance determined as the cause of death in each In keeping with the regulatory reform agenda, the of the last five years. (70469) Department is committed to keeping the regulations The tables provide the number of deaths where the underlying under review. cause was drug poisoning and a volatile substance was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate for England, Wales, and English Physical Therapy regions (Table 1), by age group (Table 2) and by sex (Table 3), in England and Wales, from 2006 to 2010 (the latest year available). Figures showing the substances involved in these deaths are not Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Health provided, as this information has not been consistently recorded what consideration his Department has given to over time. promoting World Physical Therapy Day; and if he will ONS reports annually on deaths relating to drug poisoning in make a statement. [70533] England and Wales. For each death, every substance noted on the death certificate or mentioned by the coroner is recorded. It is Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for important to note that the figures presented are not the total Health whether his Department plans to promote number of deaths involving volatile substances as (i) the underlying World Physical Therapy Day in 2011. [71244] cause must be within the ONS definition of drug poisoning and (ii) the volatile substance may not be recorded by the coroner on Anne Milton: While the Department did not plan to the death certificate. promote World Physical Therapy Day on 8 September Deaths associated with volatile substance abuse are under-reported in official statistics based on death registration data. A project 2011 it was aware of the Workout at Work Day which called the ’National Programme for Substance Abuse Deaths’ the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy launched that (NPSAD), funded by the Department of Health, was established day and of the many events, small and large that were to measure trends in these deaths in the UK. The latest report being planned locally as part of this initiative. The from NPSAD on deaths associated with the abuse of volatile initiative complements the NHS 2012 Sport and Physical substances is available at: Activity Challenge to have national health service employees www.vsareport.org.

Table 1. Number of deaths attributed to drug poisoning where a volatile substance was mentioned on the death certificate, England, Wales and English regions, 2006-101, 2, 3, 4 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

England 2022171917 NorthEast13143 NorthWest10343 Yorkshire and The Humber 4 4210 EastMidlands20304 West Midlands 3 4132 EastofEngland04212 London 5 2021 South East 4 3321 South West 0 2221 Wales 0 1103 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10). Deaths were included where the underlying cause was due to drug poisoning (ICD 10 codes shown in Box 1) and where a volatile substance was mentioned on the death certificate. 2 Based on boundaries as of 2011. 3 Deaths of non-residents are excluded. 4 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. 939W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 940W

Table 2. Number of deaths attributed to drug poisoning where a Solvents: Misuse volatile substance was mentioned on the death certificate, by age, England and Wales, 2006-101, 2, 3 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Under 25274(1) whether his Department has had recent discussions 20 with the devolved Administrations on the funding of 20-29 97566statistical information on the prevention of volatile 30-39 66945substance abuse; [70463] 40-49 23213(2) what funding his Department has allocated to the 50 and 12012prevention of volatile substance abuse in each of the over last three years; [70465] 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10). Deaths were included where the (3) what recent representations his Department has underlying cause was due to drug poisoning (ICD 10 codes shown in received on funding for the collation of information on Box 1) and where a volatile substance was mentioned on the death [70466] certificate. volatile substance abuse; 2 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. (4) what steps his Department is taking to support 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. the collection of statistics on volatile substance abuse Table 3. Number of deaths attributed to drug poisoning where a volatile substance was mentioned on the death certificate, by sex, deaths during the comprehensive spending review England and Wales, 2006-101, 2, 3 period; [70467] 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 (5) how much funding his Department has allocated Males 17 20 16 18 14 for the collation of statistics relating to volatile substance [70468] Females 3 3 2 1 6 abuse deaths in each of the last five years. 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10). Deaths were included where the underlying cause was due to drug poisoning (ICD 10 codes shown in Mr Simon Burns: The Department is reviewing its Box 1) and where a volatile substance was mentioned on the death existing public health information and intelligence functions certificate. and considering what data should be collected to inform 2 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. the work of Public Health England. Decisions on the 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. data requirements for a drugs early warning system, Box1 including the collection of Volatile Substance Abuse ICD-10 Code Description (VSA) mortality data in the future will need to be based F11-F16, F18-F19 Mental and behavioural on the outcome of this work. The Advisory Council on disorders due to drug use the Misuse of Drugs and the British Aerosol Manufacturers’ (excluding alcohol and tobacco) Association have made representations about the X40-X44 Accidental poisoning by drugs, importance of collecting data on VSA. medicaments and biological substances Spend by the Department on the collection and X60-X64 Intentional self-poisoning by publication of statistics on VSA is shown in the following drugs, medicaments and table: biological substances X85 Assault by drugs, medicaments Spend (£) and biological substances Y10-Y14 Poisoning by drugs, 20011-12 0 medicaments and biological 2010-11 0 substances, undetermined intent 2009-10 49,218 2008-09 49,218 2007-08 49,218

Worcestershire Primary Care Trust: Property There have been no recent discussions with the devolved Administrations concerning the funding of statistical information on VSA. Harriett Baldwin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health when he plans to reach a decision on the future Frank, the Government’s drug information and advice of property previously owned by Worcestershire service, provides young people with knowledge to help Primary Care Trust. [70257] prevent drug use. The following table shows Frank campaign funding for the last three years for which figures are available. This excludes spending on the Mr Simon Burns: Primary care trusts (PCTs) are Frank helpline which is funded through a contract for currently working with national health service providers various helplines in which the costs attributable to to agree the portfolio of properties that will transfer to FRANK are not separately identified, but are estimated them. The Department expects to sign off the provisional to be more than £800,000 per annum. lists by 15 December 2011, and that transfers of estate would commence in 2012. Amount (£ million)

PCTs will retain those parts of the estate not transferred 2008-09 6.97 to NHS providers, for the time being. Further guidance 2009-10 5.07 relating to this part of the estate will be issued in due 2010-11 0.19 course. 941W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 942W

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Mr Prisk: Ministers and officials from this Department regularly engage with entrepreneurs and business Advantage West Midlands: Assets representative groups on a wide range of issues affecting small and medium-sized enterprises. Regular bilaterals Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for are held with key business representative groups at both Business, Innovation and Skills what assets Advantage ministerial and official level to discuss the impact of West Midlands holds in Worcestershire; and how such current policies and to consult on potential new policies. assets are to be disposed of. [69550] There are also more formal mechanisms for ministerial engagement including the Small Business Economic Mr Prisk: Advantage West Midlands (AWM) has a Forum which brings together the business representative single property asset in Worcestershire, the former Eon bodies, the banks (as required) and a few individual substation land adjacent to Bromsgrove Technology entrepreneurs; and the Entrepreneurs’ Forum which Park. This asset is contractually committed to transfer comprises 17 entrepreneurs. into PxP West Midlands which is the AWM Joint Venture Property Vehicle. PxP West Midlands owns the remainder Business: Government Assistance of the Bromsgrove Technology Park. Agency Workers Regulations 2010 Margot James: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many applications Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for were made to the Enterprise Finance Guarantee Scheme Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for in the last 12 months; and how many of those applications the amendment of the Agency Workers Regulations were successful (a) in the Dudley metropolitan borough 2010. [70538] and (b) nationally. [70118]

Mr Davey: The Government have recently amended Mr Prisk: Small businesses apply for a commercial the Agency Workers Regulations using SI 2011/1941. loan from a lender. If the lender deems that the loan applicant is viable but lacks the necessary security or The Government takes the view that the absolute financial track record, the lender is able to offer an priority must be to retain the 12-week qualifying period Enterprise Finance Guarantee (EFG) backed loan. In agreed between the TUC and CBI and have no current the period September 2010 to September 2011, 3,720 plans for further amendments which could put this EFG backed loans to businesses were drawn nationally, qualifying period at risk. with a total value of £332 million. In the district of We have worked closely with businesses and the Dudley, for the same period, there were 16 EFG backed recruitment industry to help them prepare for the changes loans drawn, with a value of £3.9 million. and have published guidance that will help them fully understand their legal obligations as of October. Competition and Markets Authority Apprentices: Construction Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Innovation and Skills what his policy is on the inclusion Business, Innovation and Skills what support the of consideration on health and sustainable development Government offers to self-employed construction within the remit of the proposed Competition and workers in taking on apprentices. [67966] Markets Authority. [69308]

Mr Hayes: The National Apprenticeship Service works Mr Davey: We consider that the main focus of the with all types of employers in England, including micro proposed new Competition and Markets Authority should businesses, to help them bring apprentices into their be on competition. business. Employers can access information on apprenticeships by direct telephone or via the website: Employment Agencies: EU Law http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/employers.aspx Initially, very small businesses may prefer to engage Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for with the programme through an Apprenticeship Training Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for a Association (ATA). The National Apprenticeship Service suspension of the implementation of the EU Agency regional work force team can advise employers on the Workers Directive. [70524] best option for them. Mr Davey: The Government currently have no plans By their very nature, individuals may be employed by to suspend the implementation of the Agency Workers the ATA to begin with, but would be expected to be Directive; the regulations implementing the directive placed with an employer once they have finished their will come into force on 1 October 2011. apprenticeship. The Government takes the view that the absolute Business priority must be to retain the 12-week qualifying period agreed between the TUC and CBI and have no current Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, plans for further amendments which could put this Innovation and Skills which entrepreneurs and qualifying period at risk. representatives of business (a) Ministers and (b) officials We have worked closely with businesses and the in his Department have consulted on its policy on small recruitment industry to help them prepare for the changes and medium-sized enterprises since his appointment. and have published guidance that will help them fully [69257] understand their legal obligations as of October. 943W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 944W

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Phase III will see the GIB obtain borrowing powers Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has and, depending on the chosen borrowing mechanism, made of the likely effects on small businesses of the work will begin in earnest on developing the credit entry into force of the EU Agency Workers Directive. rating of the GIB. It is not possible to say now what [70537] credit rating the GIB will receive. The Government’s document “Update on the design of the Green Investment Mr Davey: There are no specific cost estimates for Bank” provides further detail on the proposals for the small businesses but agency working is less prevalent in GIB. smaller firms so the Impact Assessment concluded that the introduction of the directive was likely to have a Health Education lesser impact on smaller firms. The January 2010 BIS Impact Assessment ″European Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Parliament and Council Directive on working conditions Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what plans his for temporary agency workers″ estimated that the costs Department has to promote exercise and wellbeing in of the entry into force of the EU Agency Workers the workplace; and if he will make a statement; [70406] Directive on private sector hirers amounted to around (2) what plans his Department has to promote 0.3% (around £1.5 billion) of the total private sector physical activity at work; and if he will make a wage bill. statement. [70407] The Government have worked closely with businesses and the recruitment industry to help them prepare for Anne Milton: I have been asked to reply. the changes and have published guidance that will help them fully understand their legal obligations as of October. The Department of Health and Department for Work and Pensions work closely to promote exercise and well-being in the workplace by developing good practice English Language: Education and positive links between health and work to employers, healthcare professionals and individuals through a range Jon Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for of initiatives including fit for work service pilots, fit Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has note and the helpline for small and medium size enterprises. made of the potential effects on community cohesion In November 2010 the Secretary of State for Health, and integration of planned reductions in funding for my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire English for speakers of other languages. [68561] (Mr Lansley), launched ‘Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Our strategy for public health in England’ which sets Mr Hayes: The potential impact on adult learners out the Government’s life-cycle approach to improving participating in English for Speakers of Other Languages public health, including physical activity and health and (ESOL) courses of the changes to eligibility criteria for well-being at work. fee remission proposed in the Government’s ‘Skills for As a part of this strategy, in March 2011, the Secretary Sustainable Growth’ strategy (November 2010) are of State for Health launched the Public Health described in an equality impact assessment, published Responsibility Deal to utilise the potential for businesses by this Department on 18 July 2011. This can be found and other organisations to improve public health and at: tackle health inequalities through their influence over http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/further-education-skills/ food, alcohol, physical activity and health in the workplace. docs/e/11-1045-english-for-speakers-of-other-languages- equality-impact The Health and Work network has developed four pledges, which 150 organisations have currently signed up to at least one pledge, aiming to reinforce understanding Green Investment Bank of the positive link between health and work amongst employers, employees and the general public. Around Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for 100 organisations have pledged to adopt measures to Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what recent encourage physical activity in the workplace, including assessment he has made of progress in the state aid walking and cycling to work. The public sector too will process for the Green Investment Bank; [68105] be playing its part and in July of this year, the Cabinet (2) what credit rating he expects the Green Secretary announced a Civil Service Physical Activity Investment Bank to receive. [68111] Challenge to encourage all civil service organisations to promote physical activity through the workplace. Mr Prisk: Implementation of the Green Investment Bank (GIB) will consist of three phases: Higher Education: Tyne and Wear 1. Incubation from 2012 to state aid approval. BIS will make direct investments. Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, 2. Establishment as a stand-alone institution following state-aid Innovation and Skills (1) how many people from (a) approval. Jarrow constituency and (b) South Tyneside attended 3. Full borrowing powers from April 2015, subject to public university in each year since 1997; and from which sector net debt falling as a percentage of GDP. constituency the highest number of people attended There is no defined time limit for the state aid approval university in each such year; [70420] process although the required market investigation and (2) how many people in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) evidence gathering often result in the process taking South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) England 18 months or more. enrolled at university in each year since 1997. [70425] 945W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 946W

Mr Willetts: The latest available information from highest number of enrolments in each academic year is the Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) is shown shown in the last column with the number of enrolments in the table. The parliamentary constituency with the in brackets.

Enrolments1 from Jarrow parliamentary constituency, South Tyneside local authority, North East region and England UK higher education institutions, academic years 1997/98 to 2009/10 Constituency with Academic year Jarrow South Tyneside North East England highest number

1997-98 1,765 3,050 55,315 1,272,780 Bristol West (5,865) 1998-99 1,805 3,125 58,415 1,308,300 Bristol West (5,820) 1999-2000 1,790 3,090 60,050 1,309,505 Hendon (6,035) 2000-01 1,715 2,930 60,985 1,339,120 Hendon (6,225) 2001-02 1,775 3,000 62,615 1,377,475 Bristol West (6,990) 2002-03 1,875 3,250 65,980 1,435,655 Bristol West (6,980) 2003-04 1,980 3,420 67,925 1,492,580 Hendon (6,975) 2004-05 2,160 3,765 70,305 1,524,120 Bristol West (6,625) 2005-06 2,100 3,630 71,015 1,533,770 Bristol West (6,935) 2006-07 2,045 3,600 72,290 1,494,595 Bristol West (6,645) 2007-08 2,045 3,630 71,780 1,546,080 Bristol West (5,970) 2008-09 2,125 3,790 74,420 1,582,375 Bristol West (6,820) 2009-10 2,110 3,710 73,670 1,629,710 Bristol West (6,365) 1 Covers enrolments from all levels and modes of study. Notes: 1. Figures are based on a snapshot as at 1 December and have been rounded to the nearest five. 2. Figures exclude students whose geographical location could not be established due to missing or invalid postcode information. Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) Student Record.

Insolvency Motor Vehicles: Manufacturing Industries

Mark Pawsey: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer made of the number of micro-businesses in the of 5 July 2011, Official Report, column 1200W, on motor vehicles: industry, if he will initiate discussions insolvency profession. [69015] with (a) Government Departments and (b) other public bodies to increase the purchase by such bodies Mr Prisk: Official sources of business statistics do of motor vehicles produced in Britain. [70483] not contain the information required to answer this question because businesses in the insolvency sector are Mr Prisk: There are no current plans to discuss this not identified as a distinct industrial category. specific issue. However, as stated by the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable), on Local Enterprise Partnerships: Lancashire 5 July 2011, the Government are considering whether the UK is making best use of the application of the European Union procurement rules, where they apply, Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for and taking the most effective approach to procurement. Business, Innovation and Skills what funding he has Conclusions arising from this work will be published as made available to the Lancashire Local Enterprise part of the growth review, alongside the autumn statement. Partnership since its inception. [68782] National Renewable Energy Centre Mr Prisk: Local enterprise partnerships (LEPs) are able to apply to Government funding to support their Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for development through this Department’s Capacity and Business, Innovation and Skills what recent progress Start-up Funds. his Department has made in facilitating the The Lancashire LEP was not in place in time to apply commissioning of the National Renewable Energy for funding from the first round of the capacity fund. Centre’s Nautilus marine energy testing facility. [69232] They will be eligible to apply for the next round anticipated to open towards the end of this year. The partnership Mr Prisk: Between 2009 and 2011, the National was eligible to apply for support from the start up fund Renewable Energy Centre (Narec) received a £10 million but chose not to submit an application. grant from the “Strategic Investment Fund” in BIS for LEPs can also apply for funding to support specific the Nautilus test rig. In addition, the project has ERDF programmes or projects, for example, the Regional Growth funding in this financial year. Fund or through the Technology Strategy Board. LEPs The build and commissioning of the facility is managed can also access European funding streams or may receive directly by Narec as the asset owner. BIS continues to financial support from local authorities. monitor the project both directly and through its partner 947W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 948W organisations to ensure timely completion. Narec are Employers will be staged into the new duties in the forecasting that the facility will be commissioned in Pensions Act 2008 to automatically enrol their workers spring 2012. into a workplace pension and to make contributions to their pension between October 2012 and September Nuclear Power 2016. Large employers will be brought into the duties first and small firms will not have to implement automatic enrolment until April 2014 at the earliest. Sole traders Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for are not covered by the reforms. Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what officials or The Pensions Regulator (TPR) is responsible for special advisors in his Department provided briefings ensuring employers are aware of their duties and how to on nuclear power generation to the Government Chief comply with them. As part of this, TPR has already Scientific Advisor between 10 and 15 March 2011; and published: if he will make a statement; [67955] Detailed guidance on the reforms for larger employers and (2) how many (a) emails and (b) other communications intermediaries to explain the whole process of automatic enrolment: officials or special advisors working in his Department http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/pensions-reform/ sent to representatives of nuclear power companies or detailed-guidance.aspx the nuclear power industry between 10 and 15 March Interactive tools which are targeted at smaller businesses, who 2011; how many officials or special advisors working in may not have in-house pension expertise: his Department were directly or indirectly involved in http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/employers/tools.aspx providing research or briefing support on nuclear power generation to Ministers or Government representatives Leaflets and checklists to introduce the reforms to employers and their intermediaries: between those dates; and if he will make a statement; http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/employers.aspx [67953] (3) what meetings took place between members of his TPR will be writing to all employers, 12 and three ministerial team or officials working in his Department months ahead of the date when the employer duties will and representatives of nuclear power companies or the apply to them informing them of the date they need to nuclear power industry between 10 and 15 March 2011; start enrolling staff; where they can find out more information and guidance about the reforms; and a and if he will make a statement. [67954] checklist of things they should consider. TPR has already written to the largest companies. Mr Prisk: There were no briefings given to the Government chief scientific adviser from officials or The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) is special advisors in BIS on nuclear power generation. A working closely with TPR to develop an integrated member of British Energy, now part of EDF energy, programme of communications for employers explaining took part in a Scientific Advisory Group in Emergencies the reforms through a variety of media including national (SAGE) meeting on 15 March to provide specific advice press, business websites and online. on the type of reactor used at Fukushima Dai-ichi and In addition, DWP are developing information material its implications in the emerging incident. The individual to help employers of all sizes communicate the reforms involved was invited to provide specialist knowledge to to their workers, including templates to help employers the discussion on reactors built in the late 1960s/early meet their statutory information requirements. 1970s. The minutes of that meeting are available at: Overseas Trade http://www.bis.gov.uk/go-science/science-in-government/ global-issues/civil-contingencies/sage-15-march-2011 Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Nine emails were sent to representatives of nuclear Business, Innovation and Skills what information his power companies by BIS officials between 10 and 15 Department publishes on future trade missions to be March. No other communications were sent. No officials undertaken by Ministers of his Department; how much or special advisers working in this Department were prior notification is provided to external bodies; and directly or indirectly involved in providing research or how such information is publicised. [68557] briefing support on nuclear power generation to Ministers or Government representatives. Mr Prisk: Due to security considerations, these visits The Minister of State for Trade and Investment, my are not generally publicised. Only when all elements are noble Friend Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint, attended a finalised, including the business delegation, and at a meeting on 11 March 2011, on behalf of the Secretary time very near to the event, are details made more of State, to sign a Memorandum of Understanding widely available. between Areva and Rolls Royce. Overseas Trade: East Midlands Occupational Pensions Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for to encourage the development of business and trade Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his Department links between India and (a) Leicester and (b) the east has taken to provide information on the implications of midlands. [69680] proposed pension changes from 2012 for (a) sole traders, (b) micro firms, (c) small and medium enterprises and Mr Prisk: The coalition Government have committed (d) large firms. [70154] to an enhanced partnership with India, with trade and investment at the centre of our prosperity and growth Steve Webb: I have been asked to reply. agenda with them. A year on from the Prime Minister’s 949W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 950W visit to India we have enhanced our engagement with The Department is in regular contact with the India politically and commercially, including: enforcement authorities, package travel organisers and the launch of an India-UK CEO forum; their representative organisations and consumer a reinvigorated Joint Economic and Trade Committee; representatives. This contact has given us no cause for concern that these regulations are not generally complied the launch of UK-India Research and Education Initiative II; with by those who organise packages, nor that the the recent Economic and Financial Dialogue; and regulations do not provide adequate protection against many successful business deals which have led to the creation organiser insolvency in respect of the vast majority of jobs and an increase in our bilateral trade. of the millions of consumers who travel on packages The Government, through UK Trade and Investment every year. (UKTI), continue to deliver a full programme of work The Department has no plans to amend the relevant related to increasing UK exports, attracting more Indian regulations. We expect the European Commission to investment into the UK and improving the business propose changes to the European directive which these environment in both countries. regulations implement in the course of next year. We In respect of the east midlands, following the closure envisage that it will be necessary to amend the regulations of the East Midlands India Business Bureau, UKTI’s generally when those negotiations have concluded. east midlands team has taken over their work and appointed Stuart Muir to lead the development of Leicester and east midlands companies into India. He is Parthenon Group developing an India strategy for the East Midlands. In the meantime current activity includes: Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Support for the UK-India Food Conference and Buyer-Seller Business, Innovation and Skills when the Minister for Meeting being organised by the Leicester-based Indo-British Universities and Science first met representatives of the Trade Council to be held at the University of Leicester from Parthenon Group following his appointment; and 30 August to 1 September; whether subsequent meetings have taken place. [68166] An inward visit to the East Midlands by a UKTI trade specialist from Mumbai in September focusing on the creative and media, and education and training sectors; Mr Willetts: I have not met with representatives of the Parthenon Group. An Institute of Directors/UKTI seminar with the Deputy High Commissioner for Chennai in October at the Nottingham A quarterly-updated list of all BIS ministerial meetings Conference Centre focused on India; with external organisations is also available at: An east midlands trade mission to Mumbai and New Delhi in http://www.data.gov.uk/dataset/disclosure-ministerial- February/March 2012. hospitality-received-department-for-business East midlands companies have access to UKTI and UK India Business Council services to assist them to enter the markets most suitable to their overseas business Postal Services: Fraud development needs. Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Package Holidays: Consumers Business, Innovation and Skills what steps Royal Mail takes to intercept postal scams (a) in general and (b) those targeted on elderly and vulnerable people. [70530] Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the consumer protection Mr Davey: This is an operational matter for Royal afforded to holidaymakers under Regulations 16 to 22 Mail. of the Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package I have therefore asked the chief executive of Royal Tours Regulations 1992; [70799] Mail, Moya Greene, to respond directly to my hon. (2) what recent assessment he has made of the Friend and a copy of her reply will be placed in the effectiveness as a deterrent of the sanctions applicable Libraries of the House. to organisers who conduct tour operating businesses in contravention of the financial protection measures enacted by Regulations 16 to 22 of the Package Travel, Postal Services: Redditch Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992; [70800] Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) whether he plans to amend the financial Business, Innovation and Skills what information his protection measures enacted by Regulations 16 to 22 of Department holds on the quality of postal services in the Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package Redditch constituency. [67495] Tours Regulations 1992. [70801] Mr Davey: This Department does not hold any Mr Davey: The Department has made no formal information pertaining to the quality of the postal assessment of the effectiveness of regulations 16 to 22 service in Redditch. Quality of service is an operational of the Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package matter which is the responsibility of Royal Mail. Tours Regulations 1992 recently; neither has it formally I have therefore asked the chief executive of Royal assessed the effectiveness of the sanctions applicable to Mail, Moya Greene, to respond directly to my hon. tour operators which operate in contravention of those Friend and a copy of her reply will be placed in the provisions. Libraries of the House. 951W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 952W

Rolling Stock: Exports flights at or over-flying Heathrow. There are no plans to amend the existing night flights regime at Heathrow Margaret Beckett: To ask the Secretary of State for during the Games period. Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what steps he has taken to (a) assess the overseas market for and (b) promote the export of railway rolling stock Biofuels manufactured in the UK; [68843] (2) what steps he has taken to promote the export of Mr Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport railway rolling stock manufactured in the UK. [68852] (1) what assessment he has made of the contribution of imports of biofuels from (a) EU and (b) non-EU Mr Prisk: The UK Trade and Investment’s (UKTI) sources to the achievement of the renewable transport rail sector team collects market intelligence from our target set under the Renewable Energy Directive commercial sections in UK embassies, high commissions (2009/28/EC); [69495] and industry sources. This feeds into an annual UKTI (2) what estimate he has made of the proportion of rail sector action plan which is devised to identify sustainable biofuels derived from feedstocks grown in overseas business opportunities for the UK rail sector. the UK in each year to 2020; [69555] It is agreed in partnership with industry representatives (3) what assessment he has made of the potential for who sit on the UKTI Rail Sector Advisory Group investment in sustainable biofuels between 2014 and (which includes a roiling stock manufacturer) and the 2020. [69558] promotion of rolling stock equipment exports is part of that action plan. UKTI and relevant parts of the industry actively pursue these opportunities through a number Norman Baker: The Government support biofuels of targeted activities including trade missions to key through the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation (RTFO). markets, inward VIP visits, and major rail exhibitions. The RTFO includes a certificate trading mechanism to increase the efficiency of compliance. Vocational Education: Costs The value of individual Renewable Transport Fuel Certificates (RTFCs) is determined by the market. We Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, continue to monitor the market value of RTFCs and Innovation and Skills what the cost to the public purse consider that to date the RTFO has met its objective of was, in current prices, of the Capita IT system for driving a market for renewable transport fuels in the individual learning accounts. [65633] UK. The Department for Transport now administers the Mr Hayes: The value of the contract with Capita for RTFO and produces statistics on the country of origin the delivery costs of the Individual Learning Accounts of feedstocks used for biofuels supplied under the RTFO. between the financial year 2000/01 to 2002/03 was set Unverified data for April 2010 to April 2011 is available out in the 10th report from the Public Accounts Committee at: concerning the individual learning accounts. This is set http://www.dft.gov.uk/statistics/releases/biofuels-statistics- out in the following table, alongside the respective amount quarterly-year-to-april-2011 in today’s prices. These statistics suggest that 22% of biofuel supplied to the UK is derived from domestically sourced feedstocks. £ This is up on the figure from the previous year, when Delivery costs— Capita contract1 Real terms2 only 11% of biofuel came from feedstocks produced in the UK. The year before that, the figure was 9%. 2002/03 1,500,000 1,845,268 There is no estimate made of the contribution of 2001/02 20,500,000 26,030,754 imports of biofuels to meeting targets in the renewable 2000/01 15,600,000 20,251,850 energy directive, or on the proportion of sustainable 1 Source—Public Accounts Committee Tenth Report—Individual biofuels derived from feedstocks grown in the UK in Learning Accounts, published 17 April 2003. each year, to 2020. However, the Department has 2 These figures have been calculated using HM Treasury Deflators, last updated 28 June 2011. commissioned a number of research projects, collectively known as the “Biofuels Modes research” to investigate the potential supply and use of biofuels in the UK out to 2020 and 2050. TRANSPORT This Biofuels Modes research is considering the Aviation: Olympic Games 2012 availability of biofuel feedstock supply from UK, EU and non-EU imports and will be published later this year. Further details on this work are available at: Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport pursuant to the statement of 19 July 2011, http://www.dft.gov.uk/topics/sustainable/biofuels/research/ Official Report, columns 113-4WS, on Olympics: airspace, what estimate he has made of the potential change in the (a) number of night flights at Heathrow and (b) Buses: Concessions unexpected over-flights in respite periods during the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games. [69531] Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what representations he has received on the Mrs Villiers: The announcement about Olympics airspace withdrawal of the coach concessionary travel scheme; restrictions will have no effect on the number of night and if he will make a statement. [70429] 953W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 954W

Norman Baker [holding answer 7 September 2011]: case by case basis. The conditions are that there has By 6 September 2011, the Department for Transport been or is likely to be an emergency situation, where had received representations on changes in the funding continuous queues, travelling at less than 10 mph, extend of the concessionary coach travel scheme from a number back—or have the potential to extend back—to the of MPs on behalf of their constituents, from one coach junctions 4 or 28 of the M25 or beyond, and where the operator and from a number of individuals. The funding suspension of the charge would ease the congestion and changes were announced as part of the 2010 spending assist in managing the emergency situation. The protocol review. is set out in full at: http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/documents/Dartford_ Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Crossing_Charging_-__Suspension_Protocol_Rev_A.pdf Transport what estimate he has made of the number of On 16 July, traffic at its most severe extended back for people aged over 60 years (a) in total and (b) with a five miles from the Crossing and did not reach junction disability who are eligible for the Concessionary Coach 28. This does not meet the criteria for suspending the Travel Scheme in (i) England, (ii) west midlands and tolls. (iii) Dudley borough. [70517] The HA will continue to assess all traffic conditions that occur at the Dartford Crossing on a case-by-case Norman Baker [holding answer 7 September 2011]: basis, against the criteria for severe congestion, during The following table shows population estimates from the six-month trial of the operational protocol, to evaluate the Office for National Statistics of the number of its effectiveness in dealing with such circumstances. people aged 60 years and older in mid-2010 who are eligible for the concessionary coach travel scheme in Jackie Doyle-Price: To ask the Secretary of State for England: Transport for what reasons tolls on the Dartford Crossing were not lifted on 26 July 2011 to take Area 2010 account of circumstances where queues on the M25 (i) England 11,746,500 exceeded 10 miles. [69460] (ii) West Midlands 1,270,000 (iii) Dudley borough 77,000 Mike Penning: The traffic conditions on 26 July did not meet the specified criteria for severe congestion set The Department does not hold information on the out in the operational protocol being trialled by the number of people with a disability who are eligible for Highways Agency. The Road User Charge was therefore the concessionary coach travel scheme in England, the not suspended. west midlands or Dudley borough. Jackie Doyle-Price: To ask the Secretary of State for Cars: Tyres Transport on how many occasions Dartford tolls have been suspended since 1 July 2011. [70371] Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) what discussions his Department has had Mike Penning: Since 1 July 2011, the Dartford Crossing on the provision by car manufacturers of non-standard Road User Charge has been suspended once, at 2.18 pm tyres for use as spares in new vehicles; [70691] on 26 August. (2) whether he has any plans to introduce a East Coast Railway Line: Franchises mandatory requirement for all motor vehicles to carry a spare wheel and tyre. [70692] Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Penning: The Department for Transport is routinely Transport when he expects to re-let the Intercity East engaged in discussions on EU and UNECE vehicle Coast rail franchise. [63200] construction standards. These include standards on ‘space saver’ temporary use spare tyres. However there have Mrs Villiers [holding answer 4 July 2011]: The new not been any recent discussions on this particular issue. InterCity East Coast franchise will commence in December 2013. There are no plans to introduce a mandatory requirement for vehicles to carry a spare wheel and tyre. Electric Vehicles: Visual Impairment Dartford-Thurrock Crossing: Tolls Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what (a) meetings and (b) representations Jackie Doyle-Price: To ask the Secretary of State for (i) he and (ii) Ministers in his Department have had Transport for which reason the Dartford Crossing tolls with the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association on the were not lifted on 16 July 2011 in line with the protocol audibility of (A) electric and (B) hybrid vehicles. he announced on 30 June. [68673] [71208]

Mike Penning: On 16 July at 13.01pm a heavy goods Norman Baker: Departmental officials have had some vehicle (HGV) broke down on the QEII bridge which correspondence with Guide Dogs for the Blind Association affected southbound traffic. The recovery took 50 minutes to inform them of the start and publication of research to complete because the HGV’s air brakes had to be the Department had commissioned on audibility and released mechanically. accident risk of hybrid and electric vehicles. Guide The operation protocol set out the conditions which Dogs for the Blind also provided the Department with have to exist for a senior HA official to consider whether guidelines they had developed for artificial sound for the Dartford Crossing charge can be suspended on a hybrid and electric vehicles. 955W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 956W

I have recently received a request from Richard Leaman, Mike Penning: None to date. In July, I visited Fleetwood chief executive of Guide Dogs for the Blind for a Nautical Campus where I saw the excellent work of meeting to discuss the results of research conducted by both the campus staff and the Merchant Navy Training TRL on this issue and will be responding shortly. Board in promoting and developing seafarer education, training and skills.

Large Goods Vehicles Mark Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many Merchant Navy training facilities (a) (b) Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for there were for officers and other ranks in the Transport what recent assessment he has made of the latest period for which figures are available. [70341] (a) public health, (b) safety and (c) environmental effects of increasing the length of lorries; and if he will Mike Penning: There are 12 colleges and universities around the UK that provide seafarer education and make a statement. [70689] training programmes and courses aimed at both new entrants to the industry and experienced seafarers at all Mike Penning: The public health, safety and levels. The range of programmes and courses they provide environmental effects of increasing the length of lorries is wide and varied. were set out in the Impact Assessment and supporting research published alongside the consultation document. Further evidence provided in responses to the consultation Motor Vehicles: Insurance is being reviewed. Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent assessment the Government has Transport what recent consultations he has undertaken made of the level of use of the Motor Insurance Database to ensure that his Department’s proposals for longer by insurance companies for reasons other than reducing lorries takes account of the views of (a) cyclists, (b) the number of uninsured cars on the road. [70783] motoring organisations, (c) local government and (d) the rail industry; and if he will make a statement. Mike Penning: None. The motor insurance industry [70690] is responsible for the Motor Insurance Database (MID) and for any decisions on access to or use of its data. Mike Penning: The Government’s consultation on whether to allow an increase in the length of articulated Network Rail: Biodiversity lorries was widely circulated to interested parties including cycling bodies, motoring organisations, local government Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for bodies (the Local Government Association and the and Transport what advice his Department gives to Network Welsh Local Government Association) and the Rail Rail on sustaining biodiversity (a) alongside rail tracks Freight Group and rail freight operators. and (b) on other land owned by Network Rail. [70819] In support of the consultation, the Department also offered to meet key bodies potentially affected by the Mrs Villiers [holding answer 8 September 2011]: The proposals. Invitations were sent to the Freight Transport Department for Transport does not provide specific Association (FTA), the Road Haulage Association (RHA), advice or guidance on biodiversity management to Network the Rail Freight Group, Association of Directors of Rail. However, Network Rail’s network licence conditions Environment, Economy, Planning and Transport (ADEPT), as agreed with the Office of Rail Regulation require it Chartered Institute of Highways and Transportation to have a written policy designed to protect the environment. (CIHT), Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport In addition, and as set out in the Government’s Safety (PACTS), Road Safety GB, the Royal Society for Natural Environment White Paper, “The Natural Choice: the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA), the AA, Campaign securing the value of nature” published in June 2011, for Better Transport, Freight on Rail, SUSTRANS, we are committed to working with our transport agencies CTC, Campaign for the Protection of Rural England, and key delivery partners, such as Network Rail, to Friends of the Earth, the London Cycling Campaign contribute to the creation of coherent and resilient (LCC), British Motorcyclists Federation (BMF), and ecological networks, supported, where appropriate, by Motorcycle Action Group UK (MAG). organisation-specific biodiversity action plans. In support The following organisations accepted the offer and of this the Department intends to host a forum with met officials to discuss the proposals: FTA, RHA, the environmental stakeholders to inform future priorities Rail Freight Group, CIHT, Campaign for Better Transport, for the enhancement of transport green corridors. Freight on Rail, CTC, LCC, BMF, MAG and Cambridge Cycling Campaign. Northern Rail

Julie Hilling: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Merchant Shipping: Training what subsidy has been paid from the public purse (a) directly and (b) via Passenger Transport Executives to Mark Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern in each year of its franchise. [69028] Transport whether his Department has had recent discussions on steps to increase the number of Merchant Norman Baker [holding answer 6 September 2011]: Navy training facilities for (a) officers and (b) other Details of subsidy and premium payments in respect of ranks. [70340] all train operating companies along with payments to 957W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 958W

Passenger Transport Executives are published annually Railways: Fares by the Office Of Rail Regulation in National Rail Trends. This is available on the ORR’s website at: Sheryll Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for www.rail-reg.gov.uk Transport whether he expects passengers travelling In addition, all transactions over £500 by the Department between Bristol and the far South West to pay the same are published monthly on our website at: ticket price per mile as those travelling between Bristol www.dft.gov.uk/transparency and London after the completion of planned electrification works. [70236] Official Cars Mrs Villiers: The Government will be conducting a general review of fares policy but we do not currently Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for have specific plans to change fares regulation on the two Transport whether any discretion is given to Ministers routes referred to by my hon. Friend. in the selection of a make of car for the purposes of official travel. [69553] Railways: Greater Manchester

Mike Penning [holding answer 7 September 2011]: Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Cabinet Ministers are able to choose a car for official Transport what assessment his Department has made travel from the Government Car and Despatch Agency of peak-time rail travel in Greater Manchester. [70527] fleet. Models available include the Jaguar XJ and XF Diesel and the Toyota Avensis or Prius Hybrid. Other Mrs Villiers: In May 2011, Network Rail produced a Ministers who use the ministerial car pool service are Route Utilisation Strategy (RUS) for the north of England. driven in a hybrid model from Toyota or Honda. This included forecasts for increases in peak passenger demand into Manchester, as follows: Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will list the make and model of each Percentage vehicle currently used by the Government Car and 2014 2019 2024 2029 Despatch Agency’s (a) allocated service and (b) Low 3 13 21 32 ministerial car pool. [69771] High 17 39 52 66 Mike Penning: The Government Car and Despatch Base year: 2008-09 financial year Agency has a number of different car makes and models in its ministerial fleet as follows: Railways: Passengers (a) Allocated service comprises: 1 x Jaguar XF Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport pursuant to the answers of 7 June 2011, 5 x Jaguar XJ Official Report, column 188W and 10 June 2011, Official 2 x Toyota Avensis Diesel Report, column 496W, on railways: passengers, when he 5 x Toyota Prius. expects to provide an update on expected passenger (b) Ministerial car pool comprises: demand on the London to Alton and London to Petersfield 6 x Toyota Avensis Diesel rail lines. [70239] 22 x Honda Civic Hybrid 42 x Toyota Prius. Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport is continuing to work with Stagecoach South West Trains and Network Rail to assess future demand on the London to Alton Oil: Pollution and London to Petersfield rail lines with a view to securing additional passenger capacity. An announcement Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for is expected to be made in due course. Transport whether the Government has used the European Maritime Safety Agency oil spill response Rescue Services vessels to respond to an oil spill in the last 10 years. [70047] Mrs Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether emergency calls would first be Mike Penning: The Maritime and Coastguard Agency routed through the proposed Maritime Operations has not used the European Maritime Safety Agency oil Centre under the revised proposals for the future of the spill response vessels in response to an oil spill in the Coastguard Service; and whether his Department has last 10 years. conducted a risk assessment of such a change in the coastguard’s operations. [69443] Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether the European Maritime Safety Mike Penning: The concept of operations in the Agency’s oil spill response vessels are included in the revised proposals still provides, as at present, that distress UK’s response to any oil spills. [70048] alerts, whether from radio or the 999 system, would be routed in the first instance to the nearest co-ordination Mike Penning: The Maritime and Coastguard Agency centre for handling. can use the European Maritime Safety Agency’s oil This represents no change to the process currently in spill response vessel in response to an oil spill in UK place for the handling of emergency calls and therefore waters if appropriate. no risk assessment is necessary. 959W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 960W

Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Penning: The descriptions of the space and Transport how many outage incidents there have been facilities at Milford Haven and Swansea Maritime Rescue at (a) Milford Haven and (b) Swansea Maritime Co-ordination Centres (MRCC) are as follows: Resource Co-ordination Centre in the last year; and (i) Milford Haven MRCC Facilities (418.3 Square Metres) how many servers have been replaced in each location MCA Marine Surveyors unit and office in that period. [70710] Administration unit office/Reception area Mike Penning: Outage is defined as: Operations Room Radio Room “Failure of Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centre (MRCC) communication systems such that the ability to communicate via Emergency Planning/Training/Meeting Room (30+ persons) VHF radio, DSC or telephone is compromised to the extent that Spare office for visiting officers/Press/Second meeting room alternative ’off station’ procedures are put into place to continue (12 persons) service.” Large Rescue Co-ordination Centre Manager’s Office/Third In the past year to date: meeting area (a) there have been three unplanned and two planned outages MCA Vessel Traffic and Monitoring Systems Manager’s Office at Milford Haven MRCC; and Kitchen/Galley (b) one planned outage at Swansea MRCC. Gents/Ladies WC In respect of the unplanned outages at Milford Haven, Disabled WC the failures have been traced back to a root cause of Shower Room excess moisture in the power and equipment space and Rest Room remedial work has been undertaken to rectify this. The MCA has taken the opportunity under the planned Locker room outages to proactively replace elements of the mains Store/Archive room wiring infrastructure that was shown to be close to 2nd Store/File room capacity. Cleaner/utility room Under the proposed technical design for the future Boiler room coastguard architecture, the types of failure that have Plant room (A/C) affected Milford Haven would not have the same impact Integral Fuel store/Generator room to operational frontline services as they have had to date. The services would be connected to two separate Bike/General purpose shed data centres housed away from the local operations MCA (HSE licensed) Expired Pyrotechnic Bunkers (x two) rooms, and as such any local power or server failure Own car park and shared overflow car park (with co-sited Port would only affect the local operator’s ability to connect Authority Control HQ Building) to the resources and other operators around the UK (ii) Swansea MRCC Facilities (574.5 Square Metres) would be able to maintain operational communications Regional Business Unit Office within the area(s) affected. Operations Room In the past year to date: Emergency Planning Room (a) there have been three servers replaced, three new servers Radio Room installed, and one server removed at Milford Haven MRCC; and Coastal Safety Manager’s Office (b) four servers replaced, two new servers installed, and one server removed at Swansea MRCC. Spare Office for visiting officers These server changes have all been as the result of Regional Business Manager’s Office planned project upgrades as part of the Radio Equipment Conference/Training Room Replacement upgrade project. Kitchen/Galley Gents/Ladies WC Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for Disabled WC Transport whether he consulted local coastguard management in reaching his decision that there are no Shower Room operational or financial factors that favour retention of Rest Room either Milford Haven or Swansea Marine Rescue Regional Civil Contingencies Manager’s Office Co-ordination Centre over the other. [70712] Press Office Rescue Co-ordination Centre Manager’s Office Mike Penning: The announcement we made on 14 Locker room July took full account of the advice of the senior management of the MCA. We included a specific question Store room in the consultation document to provide everyone, including File room local coastguard managers, with an opportunity to Boiler room bring to our attention any additional factors to be Plant room (A/C) addressed before reaching final conclusions. Regional Business Unit Archive Store Aerial tower (next to building) Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what (a) rooms, (b) working space and (c) Bike shed facilities are available at (i) Milford Haven and (ii) Fuel store/Generator room (near to but separate Swansea Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre. [70713] from the main building). 961W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 962W

Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for £ million Transport what plans he has for the relocation of the Regional Business Unit of the Maritime and Coastguard 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Agency based at the Swansea Maritime Rescue Swansea 0.11 0.10 0.07 0.10 0.08 Coordination Centre. [70714] MRCC Milford 0.06 0.06 0.07 0.08 0.06 Haven Mike Penning: The Maritime and Coastguard Agency MRCC (MCA) currently has no intention to vacate the building at Swansea Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centre (MRCC) due to the other MCA functions that operate Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for from the site. Therefore the MCA has no current plans Transport whether the consultation exercise on his to relocate the MCA’s Regional Business Unit from its revised proposals for reform of the coastguard service present site. will be subject to the same independent review procedure as the original consultation, Protecting our Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for Seas and Shores in the 21st Century. [71059] Transport what criteria were used to identify the location for maritime rescue coordination centres to be Mike Penning: Yes. The consultation will be subject retained in the coastguard reform process. [70715] to the same review procedure as the original consultation.

Mike Penning: The Maritime and Coastguard Agency Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for (MCA) published a suite of documents about the impact Transport from which local authority area each of the and risks in respect of the coastguard modernisation successful applicants came in the last three trawls for proposals in the first consultation document, published new coastguard officers to serve at Milford Haven on 16 December 2010. The Location impact Assessment, Maritime Coordination Rescue centre. [71096] sub-centre rationale and supporting tables can be found on the MCA’s website at the following link: Mike Penning: Six new coastguard officers were employed http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/ as a result of the last three trawls for positions at 8.location_impact_assessment_and _sub-centre_rationale_v3.pdf Milford Haven Maritime Coordination Rescue Centre. At the time of their recruitment the individuals lived in Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for the following local authorities: Transport how many incidents were dealt with by (a) Two in Pembrokeshire county council; Milford Haven and (b) Swansea Maritime Rescue Two in Ceredigion county council; Coordination Centre in the last five years. [70716] One in Powys county council; and One in city and county of Swansea. Mike Penning: Incident statistics for the years 2006-10 for all Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centres (MRCC). These are available on the MCA’s website at the following Rolling Stock: Procurement link: http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/hmcg_adu_2006- 2010_by_station.pdf Julie Hilling: To ask the Secretary of State for The incident numbers for Milford Haven and Swansea Transport what his policy is on the procurement of new MRCCs are as follows: diesel trains. [69487]

MRCC Mrs Villiers: The procurement of rolling stock is Swansea Milford Haven usually a matter for train operators and rolling stock leasing companies, with the Department’s role being 2006 1,239 676 limited to ensuring that taxpayers and fare-payers receive 2007 1,533 724 value for money. 2008 1,304 680 The expansion in the number of electrified rail routes 2009 1,836 770 may mean that fewer diesel trains will be needed in the 2010 1,795 774 future.

Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what the running costs were of (a) Milford Rolling Stock: Public Finance Haven and (b) Swansea Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre in the last five years. [70717] Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what the cost to the public purse was of Mike Penning: The following table shows the annual administering rolling stock procurement in (a) 2007, running costs for the Swansea and Milford Haven Maritime (b) 2008, (c) 2009 and (d) 2010; and how much was Rescue Coordination Centres (MRCC) for the last five spent in each category of expenditure. [69600] complete financial years. These include costs for telecoms; utilities; rates; repairs and maintenance to the estate; Mrs Villiers [holding answer 7 September 2011]: I grounds maintenance; cleaning; waste disposal; and regret that this information could be provided only at furniture and fittings. disproportionate cost. 963W Written Answers9 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 964W

Shipping: EU Law Mrs Villiers: The information is as follows: For the answer to (a) I refer the hon. Member to my Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for answer to the right hon. Member for Southampton, Transport what steps his Department has taken to Itchen (Mr Denham) of 8 September 2011, Official establish a vessel traffic monitoring and information Report, column 767W. system following the request from the EU Commission In the period 10 July 2008-16 June 2011 senior of 16 June 2011. [69202] departmental officials had a large number of meetings with representatives of both Bombardier and Siemens Mike Penning: The UK already has established vessel regarding the Thameslink rolling stock contract. traffic and monitoring systems in place based on the requirements of the original EU directive in 2002. The EU Commission’s letter of 16 June 2011 concerns the John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for UK’s implementation of the 2009 amending directive, Transport if he will publish the (a) invitation to tender, which makes several changes to the systems already (b) bid assessment criteria and (c) bid evaluation for established. the Thameslink rolling stock contract. [R] [68703] Secondary legislation and the appropriate guidance required to implement the 2009 amending directive are Mrs Villiers: I refer the hon. Member to my answers being prepared with a view to them being in place by the of 12 July 2011, Official Report, column 236W and 19 end of the year. July 2011, Official Report, column 969W. Shipping: Sulphur Vehicle Number Plates: Flags Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what discussions he has had with the (a) Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Transport what information his Department holds on and (b) International Maritime Organisation on the how many vehicles have failed an MOT test due to an effects on shipping of the sulphur emission levels in issue with the vehicle’s number plate in the last 12 emissions control areas. [68870] months. [70871]

Mike Penning: While no Secretary of State level Mike Penning: Figures for the number of vehicles meetings have been held on this issue, officials at the which have failed their MOT tests solely because of Department for Transport (a) are in discussion with issues with the vehicle registration plate are not available. their colleagues in DEFRA and (b) play an active role However, in 2009-10, the latest year for which figures in the discussions on this subject in the International are available, 135,809 cars, light vans and motorbikes Maritime Organization. failed an MOT due to an issue with the registration Thameslink Railway Line: Rolling Stock plate or VIN number. These vehicles could have also failed the MOT for additional reasons. John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for A vehicle can fail an MOT due to the registration Transport how many meetings (a) Ministers in his plate being missing; insecure; faded, dirty, deteriorated Department and (b) senior departmental officials had with or obscured to the point that it is not easily legible to a representatives of (i) Bombardier and (ii) Siemens between person standing 20 metres from the vehicle; or the 10 July 2008 and 16 June 2011 at which the Thameslink letters and figures being incorrectly spaced, of unequal rolling stock contract was discussed. [68666] width over the whole length, or likely to be misread. WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Friday 9 September 2011

Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 29WS JUSTICE...... 32WS Ofsted Report (Armed Forces Initial Training Personal Injury Cases (Referral Fees)...... 32WS 2010-11) ...... 29WS TREASURY ...... 29WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 30WS Anti-Avoidance (Tax Treaties) ...... 29WS General Affairs Council (12 September) ...... 30WS Banking Act 2009 (Reporting) ...... 29WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Friday 9 September 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 941W DEFENCE—continued Advantage West Midlands: Assets...... 941W Departmental Pay ...... 842W Agency Workers Regulations 2010 ...... 941W Libya: Armed Conflict...... 843W Apprentices: Construction ...... 941W Libya: Security...... 843W Business ...... 941W Military Bases...... 843W Business: Government Assistance ...... 942W Military Bases: Kirknewton ...... 843W Competition and Markets Authority...... 942W Navy ...... 844W Employment Agencies: EU Law ...... 942W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 844W English Language: Education ...... 943W RAF Kirknewton...... 844W Green Investment Bank ...... 943W Health Education...... 944W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 867W Higher Education: Tyne and Wear...... 944W Boundary Commission for Wales: Public Insolvency...... 945W Appointments ...... 867W Local Enterprise Partnerships: Lancashire...... 945W Departmental Work Experience...... 868W Motor Vehicles: Manufacturing Industries...... 946W National Renewable Energy Centre...... 946W EDUCATION...... 879W Nuclear Power...... 947W Academies...... 879W Occupational Pensions...... 947W Academies: Teachers...... 880W Overseas Trade...... 948W Adoption ...... 880W Overseas Trade: East Midlands...... 948W Building Schools for the Future Programme ...... 887W Package Holidays: Consumers ...... 949W Children: Autism...... 888W Parthenon Group...... 950W Children’s Play: Training ...... 889W Postal Services: Fraud ...... 950W Civil Disorder ...... 890W Postal Services: Redditch ...... 950W Class Sizes...... 890W Rolling Stock: Exports...... 951W Classroom Assistants ...... 889W Vocational Education: Costs ...... 951W Departmental Consultants...... 890W Departmental Correspondence ...... 891W CABINET OFFICE...... 862W Departmental Procurement...... 891W Departmental Procurement...... 862W Departmental Public Appointments...... 894W Departmental Work Experience...... 863W Departmental Regulation...... 894W Public Sector: Procurement...... 863W Departmental Work Experience...... 895W Royalties ...... 864W Education Maintenance Allowance...... 895W Thameslink Railway Line: Rolling stock...... 865W Education Maintenance Allowance: Coventry ...... 895W Unemployment ...... 865W Free Schools...... 896W Free Schools: Finance ...... 897W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 866W GCSE ...... 897W Local Government: Carbon Emissions ...... 866W GCSE: GCE A-level ...... 897W Local Government: Pensions ...... 866W Headteachers: Pay...... 898W Private Rented Housing: Energy ...... 866W Music: Education...... 898W Trade Unions: Subscriptions...... 867W Pupil Exclusions: Children in Care...... 899W Pupils: Disadvantaged...... 900W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 868W Schools: Attendance ...... 901W Digital Broadcasting: Television ...... 868W Schools: Finance...... 901W Radio Frequencies ...... 869W Schools: Tower Hamlets...... 903W Telecommunications ...... 869W Solvents: Misuse ...... 903W Television: Licensing ...... 870W Supply Teachers ...... 904W Teachers: Foreign Nationals...... 904W DEFENCE...... 840W Teaching Assistants...... 904W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 840W UN Convention on the Rights of the Child ...... 905W Armed Forces ...... 840W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 841W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 838W Army...... 841W Electricity Supply...... 838W Departmental Manpower...... 842W Energy: Prices ...... 839W Col. No. Col. No. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—continued JUSTICE...... 835W Energy Supply: Older People ...... 839W Civil Disorder ...... 835W Fossil Fuels ...... 839W Departmental Procurement...... 835W Renewable Energy: Research...... 840W Legal Aid Scheme: Asylum ...... 837W NHS: Negligence ...... 837W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 871W Youth Custody...... 837W Armed Conflict: Diamonds ...... 871W Bahrain: Politics and Government ...... 871W British Nationals Abroad: Homicide ...... 872W PRIME MINISTER ...... 829W Commonwealth ...... 873W 10 Downing Street ...... 829W Crimes Against Humanity ...... 873W Airports: Security...... 829W Diplomatic Relations ...... 874W Appointments ...... 830W Eritrea...... 874W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 830W Ethiopia ...... 874W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 832W Female Genital Mutilation...... 875W John Yates...... 832W Gibraltar...... 875W Lockerbie: Moussa Koussa ...... 832W Human Rights ...... 876W Neil Wallis ...... 832W Iran: Baha’i Faith...... 877W News Corporation ...... 833W Libya: Terrorism ...... 877W Newspaper Press ...... 834W Pitcairn Islands ...... 878W Rebekah Brooks...... 835W Southern Sudan ...... 878W Sri Lanka: Politics and Government ...... 878W TRANSPORT ...... 951W Sudan...... 878W Aviation: Olympic Games 2012...... 951W Western Sahara: Politics and Government ...... 879W Biofuels...... 952W Buses: Concessions ...... 952W HEALTH...... 922W Cars: Tyres...... 953W Accident and Emergency Departments ...... 922W Dartford-Thurrock Crossing: Tolls ...... 953W Asthma: Ipswich ...... 922W East Coast Railway Line: Franchises ...... 954W Asthma: Suffolk...... 923W Electric Vehicles: Visual Impairment...... 954W Bladder Cancer ...... 925W Large Goods Vehicles ...... 955W Breast Cancer: Screening...... 925W Merchant Shipping: Training ...... 955W Diseases ...... 925W Motor Vehicles: Insurance ...... 956W Health and Social Care Bill...... 925W Network Rail: Biodiversity...... 956W Health Research Authority ...... 926W Northern Rail ...... 956W HIV Infection ...... 926W Official Cars...... 957W IVF ...... 926W Oil: Pollution ...... 957W KPMG...... 927W Railways: Fares ...... 958W Learning Disability ...... 927W Railways: Greater Manchester ...... 958W Monitor: Finance...... 928W Railways: Passengers...... 958W Multiple Sclerosis: Drugs ...... 928W Rescue Services ...... 958W Musculoskeletal Disorders...... 928W Rolling Stock: Procurement ...... 962W NHS: Crimes of Violence...... 928W Rolling Stock: Public Finance ...... 962W NHS: Manpower ...... 929W Shipping: EU Law...... 963W NHS: Redundancy...... 935W Shipping: Sulphur ...... 963W NHS: Reorganisation...... 935W Thameslink Railway Line: Rolling Stock ...... 963W Nurses: Manpower...... 935W Vehicle Number Plates: Flags...... 964W Obesity: Health Services ...... 937W Physical Therapy...... 937W Solvents: Misuse ...... 938W TREASURY ...... 852W Solvents: Misuse ...... 940W Bank Services: Disclosure of Information...... 852W Worcestershire Primary Care Trust: Property...... 939W Banks: Fraud ...... 852W Banks: Regulation...... 853W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 845W Child Tax Credit ...... 853W Anti-Slavery Day 2011 ...... 845W Corporation Tax: Credit Unions...... 855W Departmental Manpower...... 845W Debit Cards: Fees and Charges ...... 855W Departmental Training ...... 846W Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation .. 855W Entry Clearances: Married People ...... 846W Financial Policy Committee...... 856W European Court of Human Rights ...... 847W Income Tax: Tax Rates and Bands ...... 856W Extradition...... 847W Inward Investment ...... 857W Female Genital Mutilation...... 847W National Insurance Contributions ...... 857W Highly Trusted Status...... 847W National Insurance Contributions: Pensioners...... 857W Human Rights ...... 848W National Insurance Contributions: Scotland...... 858W Human Trafficking ...... 848W Northern Rock plc ...... 858W Identity and Passport Service: Redundancy ...... 849W Revenue and Customs...... 858W Immigration...... 849W Revenue and Customs: Finance ...... 859W Neil Wallis ...... 849W Revenue and Customs: Manpower...... 859W Overseas Workers...... 850W Revenue and Customs: Tyne and Wear ...... 860W Visas ...... 850W Tax Avoidance ...... 860W Visas: Appeals...... 851W Tax Evasion ...... 861W VAT: Fuel...... 861W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION ...... 829W VAT: Golf ...... 862W Pay...... 829W VAT: Registration and Tax Yields ...... 862W Col. No. Col. No. WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 908W WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Employers’ Liability...... 908W Pensions: Inflation ...... 917W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 908W Social Security Benefits: Musculoskeletal Housing Benefit ...... 909W Disorders ...... 920W Jobcentre Plus ...... 910W Telephones ...... 921W Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 912W Working Tax Credit: Parents...... 921W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Friday 16 September 2011

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their Speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), on application to the Stationery Office, c/o the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons, from whom the terms and conditions of reprinting may be ascertained. Application forms are available at the Vote Office.

PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £3·50. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £525. WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords, £6. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440. Lords, £225. Index: Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN compiled by the House of Commons, giving details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. The Annual Subscription includes also automatic despatch of the Sessional Information Digest. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscriptions: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 532 Friday No. 197 9 September 2011

CONTENTS

Friday 9 September 2011

Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill [Col. 650] Not amended, further considered Motion for Third Reading—(Harriett Baldwin)—on a Division, negatived

House of Commons Disqualification (Amendment) Bill [Col. 711] Motion for Second Reading—(Mr Bone)

Croydon City Status Bid [Col. 727] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 29WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 829W] [see index inside back page]