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Mikhail Zamarin, full unedited interview

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ENGLISH TRANSLATION 2 CITATION & RIGHTS 17

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TRANSCRIPT ENGLISH TRANSLATION —Today is June 23, 2009. We’re in Kharkov meeting with a veteran of the Great Patriotic War. Please introduce yourself. Tell us your name, patronymic, and surname, as well as where and when you were born.

Mikhail Grigoryevich Zamarin. I was born on July 1, 1918, in the city of Pervomaisk in Odessa Oblast.

—Please tell us about your childhood and your time in school, as well as about the family you grew up in.

Our family had very many children: I had three brothers and two sisters. My mother died quite early, when I was five years old. My stepmother raised me. She also had three children. Altogether there were ten people. My father was a carpenter. We lived in the town of Novokrasnovo in Odessa Oblast. It was a very large town. It had 1000 households. My father lived there before the revolution. He made windows and doors for the peasants. He was paid by getting part of the harvest. Out of a thousand households, there was only one Jewish family. People treated my father with respect. Everyone really respected him and liked him because he didn’t take cash. If the harvest was poor in a given year, [a customer] would come and say “Grigori, my harvest is poor this year, I can’t pay you.” Well, okay, then next year. And that’s why people treated him with respect.

In ‘24 we moved to Moscow. I was a student in school number 27. Of course, when I arrived there, having finished the third grade, I [had to start] the third grade again, because my Russian was very poor. In the first composition [that was assigned], I made forty-eight mistakes on one page. Well, I improved after that. I finished school. My father worked as a carpenter in Moscow. Everyone went to a factory apprenticeship school as soon as they turned thirteen or fourteen. My brother, who was two years older than I was, went to a factory apprenticeship school. Then I went to a factory apprenticeship school. I finished the factory apprenticeship school and became a metal turner. I worked at the Ordzhonikidze factory in Moscow. My two older brothers . . . one of them went to Donbas and worked in a mine. Then he worked to build the Mariupol metallurgical industrial complex. He got qualified as a planing machine operator there. My oldest brother was disabled since childhood. His leg was maimed. He drove a bitumen paving machine—a steamroller. Then he graduated from the institute and became an engineer. My middle brother also came to Moscow. He worked at a factory as the head of a technical control department, and after that, the Central Committee of the Party sent him to the Lenin Military-Political Academy. He graduated from that academy and was sent to Mongolia.

He lived with his family in Mongolia in field conditions, along with his family, from ‘40 until ‘47. They lived in dugouts. He took part in the defeat of the Kwantung Army. My stepbrother, my stepmother’s son, also finished . . . he became a retired lieutenant, but he was a tailor and worked at an apparel factory in

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Moscow. In ‘40, during the Winter War, he was drafted, and after the Winter War, he became a career officer. He served in the North Caucasus, and later on the North Caucasian Front. After the war, he stayed there, and earned the rank of lieutenant. After the factory apprenticeship school, I worked at the factory. Then I was called up to work at the regional Komsomol committee. In due course, I was trained as a sniper. I was an instructor for snipers. I trained civilian marksmen in that region. I was transferred to the regional committee as a defense instructor. I worked there for a year, and [then] was sent, according to the instructions of the Central Committee, to the military academy. They sent me to the armor school in Kharkov. When I went to see the panel [that determines whether people are to be admitted], they rejected me, on account of my height. I was 3 centimeters too tall. I’m 183 cenitimeters tall. An hour later, they called me in to the mandate committee and told me that I wasn’t going home. I was to be transferred to the school for Red officers in Kharkov. That was a multidisciplinary school for all the services. There were departments for the infantry, artillery, and for armored tanks. I was sent there. I was registered as a cadet at the school, and two months later, the school was reorganized. It went from being an infantry school to the Kharkov Artillery Academy.

I graduated from that school in ‘39. I graduated early. I was sent to the Winter War at the end of December. I arrived at the front and was there for, literally, a few days. I was made company commander, and three cadets who studied with me were also made lieutenants, and they were platoon commanders with me. An order was received that we be called away from the front and sent to be managed by the Kiev military command. In January 1941, I arrived in Kiev, and was sent to serve in the 169th Infantry Division that was located . . . its headquarters was in Vinnytsya, but the regiments were in Zhmerynka. I was made commander of an anti-tank artillery battery of a detached anti-tank division of the 169th Infantry Division. I took part in the liberation of Bessarabia. I was made commandant of Beltsy station. That’s a regional center. Then I was called back from there to the winter quarters.

First, we arrived in Zhmerinka, and from Zhmerinka, the division was redeployed to Vitin, the regional center of Vinnytsya Oblast.

—What year was that?

All that was in ‘40. I continued to serve there until the beginning of the war. But if the war began for everyone on the 22nd, for us it started on the 16th. On the 16th, I came home for lunch, and a dispatch rider arrived on a motorcycle. He said “Comrade Lieutenant, marching orders.” Little suitcases . . . and I didn’t go home after that. We spent two days getting ready, and on the 19th we were sent to the Romanian border because the division and the entire corps were among the troops guarding the border. On the 21st, I had already taken up firing positions at the Put River. I had prepared firing charts. And at dawn, the Germans started crossing [the river], and I opened fire on them like everyone else.

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One regiment out of three was occupied with defense. Two regiments were in reserve, and one was doing defense along the border. I was with the defense troops. When Molotov gave his speech saying that the war had begun, I had already shot through an entire allowance of ammunition. We were there for about a month. The Romanians weren’t behaving very actively. They would start a crossing, and we would open fire on them, break up their pontoons, and that would be it. The Germans were already approaching Kiev, and we got an order to work our way back [giving battle] in the Kamenets-Podolsk region. Novaya Ushitsa outside Vinnytsya. The way we fell back is typical. One regiment was doing defense, while two regiments and all the other units of the division were on the marsh. When they arrived at the appointed border, another regiment would take up [defensive operations], and the first one would leave. If we took three days getting there—to the Prut River—then we took twenty hours getting back. The battery was on a mechanical draft. Tankettes pulled the cannons. When we crossed the Dniester, a lot of the vehicles had their engines’ protective covers pop off from overheating because it was quite hot and we were moving so quickly.

The main battles began. The first battle was in the region of Novaya Ushitsa. At that battle, my battery’s crew distinguished itself. The battery was 95 percent people who had a higher education. There was a decree at that time: everyone who had completed . . . teachers . . . who weren’t serving in the army . . . they got deferments. But in ‘39, they were all drafted into the army. They gave my battery 120 people all at once, people who had a higher education. They were very literate and very smart. The crew distinguished itself. There was a gunner who was a Jew—the crews were international. They had Ukrainians, Russians, Jews, Uzbeks, Georgians, Kazakhs. In that crew, there was a Jewish gunner, a Russian section chief, and the others were two Ukrainians and a Kazakh. That was the composition of the crew. And it was in that composition that we started the battle. The Germans started to break through into the region of Kirovograd [Kropyvnytskyi], and that’s when the first battle with Guderian’s tanks began. The gunner took four tanks out of action. They gave him the title Hero of the Soviet Union. To the section chief they gave the Order of the Red Banner. The others got the Order of the Red Star. I was in command of that company until August, and in August ‘41 I received an order to take command of the battalion because the battalion commander, Major Pashits, turned out to be a traitor. He surrendered. I was made battalion commander.

At that time, I had the rank of first lieutenant. An artillery battalion is made up of three companies. twelve main guns. I was in command for a month and a half, and they called me in to division headquarters and told me to hand the battalion over to the second-in-command. It’s true that we had lost a lot. The losses were great. Out of eighteen main guns, I had only seven left. The rest had been damaged. I handed over command and appeared at division headquarters. The division commander, Major General Trunov, who was from Kharkov, said “You need to work at headquarters for a while.” I said, “I’m sorry, I’m an artilleryman. I don’t want to join the infantry.” He said, “We’re not asking you. What department are you in?” I said I was in administration. He said, “Good. All my workers on the operational staff have left. The supervisor is the only one left. You’ll be his assistant.” It was an order. I started serving in the 169th Artillery

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Division as the deputy supervisor of the operational staff.

I served for several months, and I was assigned to be the supervisor of the operational staff. Having the rank of first lieutenant, I was performing the duties of a colonel. I served in that division until the Battle of Stalingrad. At Stalingrad, I was the commanding officer of the operations division of headquarters, but on December 28, 1942, we got an order from Stalin. All officers who had been in the Academy were to be set to the Academy for state exams. Special courses were put together there because we had forgotten everything in the intervening time. I was sent to the Academy. We started studying. At the beginning of the war, the Academy was in Tashkent, but in January it moved back to Moscow. I was studying at the Frunze Academy. I graduated from the Academy with honors in all subjects. The commanding officer of the Academy called me in and said “How would you feel if we kept you at the Academy as a teacher?” I said, “Comrade Colonel General, I’m a soldier. Wherever you order me to go, that’s where I’ll go.” Okay. So that was the first time I ran up against anti-Semitism.

—Was that in ‘44?

No, that was in ‘43. They sent me to the commission. The thing was . . . he didn’t know I was a Jew. [To him, I was] Mikhail Grigoryevich Zamarin, [a soldier who] had been at the front since day one and had been commanding officer of operational staff for a year and a half. That’s a good candidate. I was sent to the commission, and later, when the political department had looked through my file, they ordered the commission to reject me. I went to see the commission. They called me in and said, “Unfortunately, due to your health, you’re unfit for teaching.” And they concluded that “[The candidate] is unfit for work as an instructor. Exhaustion of the central nervous system.” I went to the commanding officer, and he said, “I can’t do anything [about this]. Go join the reserve regiment of the Ministry of Defense. I went to the reserve regiment, and a lot of people who had taken courses and graduated went there, too. They were all former soldiers from the front.

—Were you still at the rank of first lieutenant?

No, I was a captain by then. I arrived and presented myself for duty. There were more than 2000 officers in the reserve there. About 60 percent of them were colonels and lieutenant colonels. Most of them, not a one of them had been at the front. They were marking time in the reserve. Three days went by, and the officer on duty called for me and told me to go to a certain office. I went there and saw that there was a colonel there. He introduced himself and said that he was Istomin, a colonel of the general staff, and at the same time, a representative of the Central Personnel Administration of the Ministry of Defense. Why [had he wanted to see me]? A new corps was being assembled, and it had been decided to appoint me to be the deputy commander of operational staff of that corps. [I was told to] select some officers from among those who had graduated along with me: two assistants and five liaison officers.

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I selected the officers, made me report, and they told me “Tomorrow at 1600 hours, you are to leave Moscow.” [I said] that my family was in Moscow and asked for a couple days. No. The troop train leaves tomorrow. It’s an order. The corps was being assembled at Kushchub station on the northern rail line. Outside of Cherepovets. I arrived there. There was a military town there, before. I arrived at night and hung around until morning doing something or other. I arrived and they said “We haven’t heard anything.” And I waited twelve days until people started arriving. And they couldn’t even let me be at home for two days . . . so I started serving in the corps. I served until December ‘43. My assistants didn’t know anything about administrative work at all. Summary reports had to be done every hour. I didn’t even go to bed. I got so exhausted that I was falling asleep on my feet. I went to see the corps commander. He was a lieutenant general. Very cultured and capable. I reported and said, “I ask you to release me from this post. Transfer me, and I’ll go and serve even as a battalion commander.” He asked what was wrong. I said that I wasn’t physically in the condition [to do the work]. They worked it out with the commander of the army. I was told “You’ll go serve as commanding officer of the operational staff of the 119th Guards Division in this corps.” I went there and served for a month. One regiment in the region of Nevel was caught in an encirclement.

It had been made up of marine brigades. A captain first rank, Fokin, was commander of the regiment. There are lakes there, and on the necks of land between the lakes, there were the defensive formations. No one knew how to approach them. But I was in the regiment the night before, and I knew. I said to the division commander “You know what, I know how to get in there. Allow me to get in there. I’ll take three reconnaissance men, I’ll get in there, and I’ll try to lead out the rest of the regiment.” I was allowed to do it. I went and led them out . . . and they asked me to command the regiment. And I stayed there.

—As regiment commander?

As regiment commander. Regiment commander and commanding officer of operational staff are equivalent posts. Colonel for both of them. I stayed and was there until February ‘44.

—At what rank?

I was already a major. They made me a major when I arrived at the division. Right away, the order came in about promoting me to major. And I continued serving there. Eremenko, who was commanding the front, did demonstration exercises in our regiment. We were taken off to the second line, about 6 kilometers from the front line. We were ordered to organize defense fortifications for a German battalion: to dig foxholes, defense wiring, minefields. Everything. They used it as training. They got together all the regiment commanders at the front and showed them how to take one of the enemy’s fortified posts.

The exercises were conducted. Eremenko awarded watches to the soldiers and officers. I went off to my office at headquarters. I went into the tent. I had a first lieutenant as an adjutant. I said “First Lieutenant,

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ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN why is the tent spinning?” He looked at me, and I was white as a sheet. Right away, he . . . I grabbed the pole and fell over. When I woke up, I was lying on a cot and a doctor was giving me injections. I was sent to a hospital. I wasn’t on good terms with Shaforenko, the division commander. We didn’t get along. He was a womanizer and demanded things that weren’t allowed. He gave me an order, saying, “Set up a tent with three women and vodka.” I said, “Comrade General, you’re mistaken. I’m the commanding officer of the operations staff of division headquarters, but I’m not your errand boy, and I’m not going to do this. You have adjutants and dog-robbers, so use them. But don’t get me involved in this . . . “ And he and I . . . by the way, he was a Jew. He hid it. Shaforenko, Major General Shaforenko.

They put me in the hospital and I was there for twenty days. They diagnosed me with a decompressed heart defect. And they said I needed to be sent to the rear. I said I wouldn’t go to the rear. Then they said they had to send me to front headquarters or army headquarters. They sent me. I arrived at army headquarters . . . no, they permitted me to have some leave. I arrived to see the commanding officer at headquarters and reported that I had arrived there after being treated at the hospital. I gave him their conclusions. He said, “Major, you’re a day late.” I said I wasn’t late. I said that I had left that day and arrived that day. [He said,] “No, I mean that if you had gotten the forms in order before yesterday, you could have gone on leave. But today, no. Go to see a member of the Military Council. If he gives you a visa, I’ll give you [the necessary] papers. I still felt dizzy. I went to see a member of the Military Council. A major general. I reported to him. He said, “Well, how are things? How are you feeling?” I said I wasn’t feeling too well. He said, “Well, sit down.” I sat down. “Are you going back to the regiment?” I said I wasn’t. He said, “Why?” I said that it was because the division commander had behaved poorly: without even knowing how my treatment had turned out and what would happen to me, he put in a formal request to the corps commander to assign a different person to be regiment commander. And I wasn’t willing to go and displace someone who was in that position already. He said, “Will you serve as a deputy of operational staff of army headquarters?” I said no. He said, “Why?” I said, “You know, I want to be an unimportant commanding officer. I’ve already been an important assistant, and I’ve had enough of it.” He laughed and said “Well, okay.” He called in the commanding officer of headquarters and said “How’s Matrosov’s regiment?” The Military Council personally handled personnel matters for the regiment named for Hero of the Soviet Union Alexander Matrosov. He said, “There’s no commander there, and no commanding officer of headquarters. They’ve left the ranks.” He said, “Will you serve as commanding officer of headquarters?” And I [said I] would. [I said,] “But you know, I walk very poorly.” He said, “You don’t need to walk. You’ll be driven there.”

I arrived at the regiment and took command. I served there until I was wounded for the last time. I served exactly a year on the front after the Academy. I was wounded twice during that year, but I wasn’t hospitalized. A piece of shrapnel go in as far as the bone and got stuck. I was wearing a mitten . . . I pulled it out through my cotton pants, bandaged it, and continued to be in command for another four hours. Then a dressing was applied. I didn’t end up going to the hospital. I don’t even have a record [of the wound].

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—You were commanding officer of headquarters for the regiment?

Yes. Commanding officer of headquarters for the Alexander Matrosov Guards’ Regiment. Then we served in the region of Pushkinskie Gory National Park. We liberated Pushkinskie Gory, Opochka, Pustoshka, and Novo-Sokolniki. I was one person in two roles. The order from the army commander said “Major Zamarin is to be assigned to be acting regiment commander.” I never did get a promotion to commander. I just served as acting commander until that last wound.

My last wound . . . before that, for three days, there had been such a battle that the division commander didn’t believe it when I reported that the battle was over, the German battalion had been destroyed, and all was well. He didn’t believe it. He thought that the Germans had taken the radio transmitter and were reporting this, pretending to be me. He ordered me to appear [in person]. Why? We were serving in Latvia. It’s a forested and swampy area. Lybansky lowlands. Before we got there, it was impassable. One road went along the railroad, and there were no other roads. There’s a system of farmsteads there. The Germans were occupying fortified points on these farmsteads. How could we drive them out of there? I made the decision. At the onset of darkness, we would go 15 to 20 kilometers behind enemy lines, and then at dawn, striking from behind, we would take the fortified point. We went behind enemy lines and set out at dawn. I deployed the regiment for the attack on that fortified point. The Germans brought out a reserve battalion. But their intelligence worked pretty well. They ignored my battalions and attacked the regiment headquarters. And the Colors [regimental flag] are at regimental headquarters. If the Colors are lost, there’s no regiment. I only had about sixty men. But since we were in the woods, we [had] assault rifles and grenades. We were doing a perimeter defense. A battle with that battalion began. I was standing totally upright and watching the battle. The battle began, and our men were doing a good job deflecting the attack. The Germans were sustaining heavy losses. Then suddenly, I heard the commander of the artillery regiment that was supporting me say “Cease fire!” I looked closer . . . oh dear. The soldiers walking behind had the machine-gun tripods on their shoulders, and those walking in front had their hands raised. There was nothing else to be done. I jumped out into the open and started shouting—I have a loud voice—”This is a provocation! Do as I do! Fire all weapons!” And I started throwing grenades. The battle lasted fifteen minutes.

—That was in Latvia?

Yes. After that battle . . . we destroyed their unit. The unit scattered. We collected 148 German service record books. Imagine what kind of battle that was. For the most part, it came down to hand-to-hand combat. The senior doctor of the regiment, Captain Protsenko, killed two Germans in hand-to-hand combat with a trench shovel. When the battle was over, I reported to the division commander. He didn’t believe it. I had been wearing a large cape [the kind that can double as a tent], and we counted thirty-two bullet holes. I didn’t have a scratch on me. That kind of thing happens at the front.

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And three days later, out of the clear blue . . . that was also at dawn . . . we approached Madonna Station. We had been walking all night. We hadn’t eaten. We decided to have breakfast. The battalions went on ahead and started getting in position for the attack. I was holding a Mauser. I called to my second. He was a Gypsy. I called to him and said “Arkasha, let’s eat.” And just then, the Germans noticed from the water tower—they had an observation post there—that the battalions were getting in position. And the first high- explosive marker round exploded overhead. I was wounded, the commanding officer was wounded, and twelve others, all with one shell. I had the worst wound. I got a piece of shrapnel right here (points to his lower jaw). It split and broke up my entire jaw and chin. I didn’t lose consciousness . . . momentary loss of consciousness. Then I heard shouting, noise, and people running around. I heard someone say “The commander of the 2nd battalion is wounded.” A few minutes later, I heard “The commander of the 1st battalion is wounded.” There was only the deputy commander for political affairs left. But then . . . the political workers aren’t very . . . I pulled a ramrod out of a case and wrote him [a message] on the sand. “Cover yourself on the left. Send the commander of the machine-gun company to the 1st battalion. Assistant staff officer to the 2nd battalion. And I kept being in command in that condition for about an hour and a half.

When I had just been wounded, I heard some noise, everyone was getting bandaged up, and no one was approaching me. They thought I had been killed. My chin had been torn off. And then, when the commander of the machine-gun company saw [that I was alive], he shouted “The Major is alive, get the wound-dressing kits over here on the double!” They started dressing my wounds and pouring water on my head. I gave them an order: “Report by portable transmitter to the division commander.” Before that, the division commander had told me that his drill deputy, a lieutenant, was on his way to me. I reported by portable transmitter to the division commander that I was wounded, my second was wounded, and the commanding officer was wounded. All the officers in command. Only the deputy commander for political affairs was left. Tell Lieutenant Asafyev to take command of the regiment. He did. He took command, and two scouts helped me to the field hospital. When I was brought to the field hospital, I was covered in blood. That’s a specialized kind of hospital. And at that specialized hospital, thanks to my Jewish luck, I got a doctor who had just finished school, and she, not knowing what she was doing, removed my whole jaw (laughs) instead of setting it and sending me to Moscow, she up and . . .

It quickly started to heal. A month later, when I was taken to Ulyanovsk in the rear, I had scars as thick as a finger. My whole face was distorted. But my neck was in one piece. Only this was torn up. The hospital chief and head surgeon were Jews from Moscow. The hospital chief, Lieutenant Colonel Libkin, said, “Write a formal request for treatment in Moscow.” My condition was such that that was possible. I wrote to my brother. At that time, my elder brother worked at the Main Administration of the Food and Vegetable Preserves Industry of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. He was an expert on merchandise. He went to the hospital. They told him “Yes, we can do it, but we don’t have anyone to escort him. He said, “Fill out the paperwork with my name, and I’ll go pick him up.” He came to where I was. I went to Moscow [with him]. At first, I was sent to the jaw and face hospital, and then I was transferred to Burdenko, the main

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ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN hospital of the armed forces. I was there for . . . of course, I did have to be in the hospital for about a year and a half. I refused. They wanted to do plastic surgery on me with the Filatov method. I refused. I said to the professor, “I don’t want to do it. Who knows whether it will take? How long would I have to be in the hospital?” He said it would take a year and a half to two years. Well, he proposed doing local grafting. But he said “Just keep in mind that I’ll have to cut your neck all up.” He gave me a triangle: six centimeters on one side, and six centimeters on the other. He cut off one corner and completely created the lining. That’s why I have all these scars there now. I was discharged from the hospital and became an invalid [officially disabled veteran] of the Patriotic War.

—At what rank were you when you went to the hospital?

I was discharged at the rank of major, but once I had already become a civilian, they gave me the rank of lieutenant colonel. Before 1950, there was no order regarding dismissal. Only in 1950 did the Ministry of Defense sign the order about my dismissal, as one unfit for military service, for reasons of health as a consequence of being wounded.

And then the president of Ukraine gave me the rank of lieutenant in 2004. So that’s how I became a lieutenant in retirement.

—Apart from you, were any of your brothers at the front?

My whole family served. All the men. Of my brothers, only my one elder brother didn’t serve. He had been disabled since childhood. I became a disabled veteran of the Patriotic War. My brother who was born in ‘16 became a first-category disabled veteran. At the Leningrad Front, he was shot by a burst of machine- gun fire. His whole shoulder and arm.

—What was his name?

Yudel. And one of my brothers was in Mongolia at that time. He graduated from a military and political academy.

—What was his name?

Abram. Cousins, two brothers: one died at the rank of first lieutenant in Belarus in ‘43.

—What was his name?

His name was Chaim. The younger one was 18, and had just finished school. He was a tank commander at

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ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN the Kursk bulge. He burned to death in his tank.

—And his name?

Nusek. My stepbrother was wounded in the Winter War, and then at the North Caucasian Front.

—Shmul. My sister’s husband, who was a Merited Master of Sport before the war, served in the Winter War, then in the Patriotic War, and was seriously wounded outside Moscow in ‘42.

—What was his name?

He was Russian.

—Still, what was his name?

Seryozha Panin. We had an international family. My sister’s husband was Russian. My brother’s wife was Russian. My eldest sister’s husband served on the Stalingrad Front. It was a coincidence that he served in my division, and I didn’t know. His hands were wounded and he lay in the snow in freezing weather. He got frostbite, and all his fingers were amputated. He was wounded in the leg, as well. He became a disabled veteran. Before the war, he had worked as a supervisor in the finishing department of the Marti ship-repair plant.

—His name was also Mikhail. Only my father didn’t serve, because he was born in 1883. My uncle didn’t serve, because he was born in 1885. And my older brother who was disabled. The rest of the men in our family were at the front. Of them, my cousins died, and the rest became disabled. That’s how Jews “didn’t serve.”

—You were in command of large subdivisions . . .

Yes, they were large.

—Were there any problems connected with ethnicity during the war years?

I have to tell you that at the front, anti-Semitism couldn’t be felt at all. I wrote in my book that the Soviet army was an army of internationalists. Telling you that I was in command of a regiment is enough. I, a regiment commander, was a Jew. The deputy drill commander was a Gypsy. The deputy commander of the political unit was a Russian. The head of reconnaissance was a Jew. The head of the first division, the assistant to the commander of headquarters, was a Jew. The commander of the first battalion was an

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Mikhail Zamarin, full unedited interview

ID UKR125.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4930nx56

ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN

Armenian. The commander of the second battalion was a Jew. The commander of the third battalion was a Kalmyk. It’s enough to say that in the Matrosov regiment, there were soldiers of thirty-eight ethnicities. In one regiment. We weren’t interested in who your grandfather was or who your grandmother was. We paid attention to how you served. If someone served well, he got decorations and was a good person. A patriot. If someone served poorly, he got what he deserved.

That’s why you couldn’t really feel that [anti-Semitism]. I only told about . . . in the Academy . . . I didn’t think of it right away . . . then, when I had a chance to think, I realized that I had been rejected because I was a Jew. I wasn’t fit to teach, but sending me to the front lines was no problem. Where is it harder [to serve]? At the front, of course.

—The closer one was to the front lines, the less anti-Semitism there was?

I want to emphasize that at the front, you couldn’t feel it. Everyone was friends with everyone, plus Jews got more respect than Russians did. Here’s an example. In ‘68, the commander of the 19th Guards Army, a colonel general, decided to gather all the veterans of the army together in Moscow at the Central Armed Forces Museum. They were invited. Four people were in command of the regiment. One left the ranks, another replaced him. The third left the ranks. I was the third. Mostly Russians were in command. One was a Ukrainian. I was a Jew. We gathered in Moscow. My wife and I got off the subway near the Central Museum. My wife said, “Look, what’s that?” A formation of officers was headed straight for us in dress uniform. What’s going on? The men from my regiment hadn’t seen me since I was wounded. Only one of them knew, the lieutenant who was my assistant when I was commander at headquarters. Later, he became a colonel. I had met with him. But then rest . . . [I said,] “Don’t worry. They must be meeting veterans.” I didn’t think they were there for me. I saw that colonel give the order “In order to greet the regiment commander, attention!” People were gathered there. They came to attention, and he came out of the formation and said “Comrade Commander of the 254th Guards Regiment, the Matrosov Regiment. The veterans of the regiment and the 10th Guards Army have gathered to meet with you. Colonel Mikrukov reporting.” Well . . . then I said, “Listen, Boris. Who else has arrived? Just me?” He said, “No, everyone has arrived. But what do we need them for? The way they treated us, that’s how we treat them.” I’m a Jew. They really thought the world of me. They really appreciated how I treated them. I was very strict. Very strict. But on behalf of a soldier, I would reduce any officer to the ranks. I was very fair, and that’s why they respected me.

Here's an example. Officers received an extra ration. I didn’t eat that extra ration even once. When I worked at division headquarters, I ordered that it be given to the housekeeping unit. I didn’t accept it. All the officers at headquarters took their extra rations, but I didn’t. I shared it with all the officers at headquarters. I didn’t take it.

Mikhail Zamarin, full unedited interview

ID UKR125.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4930nx56

ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN

After the division commander who was killed at Pervomaisk, a Jew took command. Ssamuil Mironovich Rogachevsky. He and I shared a dried piece of bread. That was ‘41 or ‘42. We were falling back under difficult conditions. I was flailing and flailing, getting regiments together, since one regiment was going one way and another one would be going another way. I needed to gather them together, and I was flailing. So I went and reported. [He said,] “Do you have anything to eat?” I said, “No, Comrade General, I don’t.” He rooted around in his bag. He found half a fried piece of bread. He broke it and said “Here’s half for you.” He kept half for himself. That’s what happened. And the commander of headquarters was one Petrenko, from the Ural Coast. Forty years later, we met in Kharkov. We were good friends at the front. When I left for the Academy, he stayed as commander of headquarters. After the war, he became a general and was an instructor at the Military Academy of the General Staff. His wife served with him. She was at our field hospital. We parted in ‘42 at Stalingrad and I didn’t see him again. In ‘82, I got a letter. I saw that it was from Vasily Ivanovich Petrenko. I opened it. He wrote “Mikhail Grigoryevich, I’ve been looking for you for forty years. Ksenia found you by accident.” She had gone to the 119th Guards Division of the Marines and seen a photograph of me on a stand. And her friend was there. She asked, “Hey, why do you have [a picture of] our captain?” She said, “That’s not your captain, it’s our captain.”

After that, he and I met very often in Moscow. He was Russian. I’m a Jew.

—What was the first decoration that you received?

The first decoration that I received was the medal “For the Defense of Stalingrad.” I was commended at Stalingrad and received the Order of the Red Banner. Me, a commander of headquarters. The division commander got the Order of Lenin. Well, I went off to the Academy. No orders. In ‘43, I was already in the Academy in Moscow, and I got a letter from Petrenko, commander of headquarters. He wrote “The orders have arrived. I received the Order of the Red Banner. You should be listed, too.” But I . . . and the division commander received the Order of Lenin. I went to the Awards and Decorations division. They looked and couldn’t find anything. [They told me to] come back in three days. I went back in three days and they told me “It was sent to the front.” Why were they sent to the front? I was at the Academy. So I didn’t get it. Only in ‘56 did they find it and present me with the Order of the Red Banner. But I wasn’t lucky. When I was standing in line for a train tickeTt someone tore the medal off me.

—What other decorations did you receive during the war?

During the war, I received the Order of the Red Star and the Order of the Patriotic War. And the Order of the Red Banner.

—How were the orders presented to officers?

The Order of the Red Star was just handed to me at the front. They came into the dugout, handed it to me,

Mikhail Zamarin, full unedited interview

ID UKR125.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4930nx56

ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN we drank a mug of vodka, and that was it. “Please continue to serve.” The Order of the Patriotic War I got after I was wounded. I was in the hospital and received an invitation to the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet at the Kremlin. They gave me the order there at the Kremlin. A whole set of officers and generals received medals. At first, Kalinin was present, and then he left and his deputy, Kuusinen, gave them out.

—What did you do after you were in the hospital?

When I arrived in Kharkov, the regional Party committee . . . I went there and asked them to give me a job. I received a pension that was pretty good at that time. I received 1300 rubles then. I went there and asked them for a job. I got married here in Kharkov, and my wife didn’t want to go to Moscow. We stayed here. I went to the regional Party committee. Then things had already started with the Jews [anti-Semitism]. You could only get a job in business. I said that I didn’t have anything to do with that and didn’t know anything about it. They said I should be a restaurant manager or a store manager. I said I wouldn’t do that and that I knew nothing about it. For several months, they . . . in the end, my pension didn’t get transferred from Moscow, and I was running out of the cash I had with me. Nothing to eat.

I went [back to the committee]. [They said,] “A cafe is opening on Sverdlov Street. Go be manager there.” I had to do it. I went. I worked for about four months and then went back to the committee and said I wouldn’t work there anymore. They said, “Why?” I said I wanted to sleep well. I didn’t want my pillow shaking under my head. I don’t want to go to prison just so someone else can get rich. I don’t want that. No . . . no? I took a sheet of paper and wrote on it. I was a disabled veteran. The document says that I’m unable to work and am in need of treatment. So I wrote “I ask to be released on account of my health.” I left it there for the committee secretary and left. I turned in my keys. I went to the regional Party committee. At that time, Podgorny was the first secretary of the regional Party committee. No . . . it wasn’t Podgorny. It was Churakin. I went to the committee. They asked, “What kind of job do you want?” I said I would take anything but business. I wouldn’t do business. They asked if I would work in personnel. I said I would. And they assigned me to work as supervisor of personnel at the health department of the southern railroad. The head of the department was a retired colonel. A professor.

He and I got to be very good friends. We started working [together]. I don’t know anything about medicine, but [there were] 2800 medical workers. I said, “Dmitri Fyodorovich, I’m having a hard time, I . . . “ He said, “Oh, we can fix that problem. Do you have a higher education? Did you graduate from the Academy?” I said yes. He said, “Write a letter to the minister and ask for permission to become a non- resident student at the dental school in Kharkov.” There was a dental school in Kharkov. Not a school for dental technicians, but a dental school. I said I would write the letter, but I didn’t know anything [about this kind of thing]. [He said,] “Don’t worry about that. Write the letter.” I figured, okay, what have I got to lose? A week later, I got a reply from the minister. “As an exception, I allow Mikhail Grigoryvich Zamarin to take the state exams to qualify as a dentist [during the round of] state exams for the graduating class of 1949.” I

Mikhail Zamarin, full unedited interview

ID UKR125.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4930nx56

ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN arrived and said “Dmitri Fyodorovich . . . “ He said, “Sit down and write the administrative order.” We wrote the order. We had professors who were specialists [in various areas of medicine] within the railroad [system]: surgeons, internists, dentists, and neuropathologists. He said, “Write that the workday of the supervisor of personnel is being shifted: from 12 to 20:00 The internist, dentist, surgeon, and neuropathologist are to conduct classes with Mikhail Grigoryevich Zamarin in accordance with the course of study of the dental school. They are to prepare him to take the state exams.” [What a heavy] load [of work] it was . . . I studied with them for four hours every day, and then . . . I came home at nine. At nine in the evening. Three months went by. I went to the director of the school. He said, “Yes, I have the letter. I’ll allow it, but first you have to pass the pass / fail exam. Here’s the syllabus.” I gave it to the professors, and they helped me prepare that material. And I did the whole syllabus in three and a half months . . .

I went back. I was ready. They said, “Go to professor so-and-so and take the anatomy exam.” A professor at the medical school. I went to see him. He asked if I had been attending courses. I said I had not. He said, “Well, how are you going to do this?” I said, “Ask the questions and I’ll answer.” There were a bunch of cards [with questions on them] for students. He told me to take one. I took one. He said to read it. I read it. He said to answer. I had just started to answer the first question, and he said, “No more. Have you had breakfast today?” He liked to drink and went to a restaurant for breakfast. I thought “Yes, but I don’t have money . . . “ It was ‘47. I said, “No.” [He said,] “That’s enough of this, let’s go have breakfast, and then we’ll deal with the exam.” We went and had breakfast. I thought about paying. He said “Hold up! Can’t a professor treat a soldier who was on the front lines?” We went back to the department. He said, “Give me your student record book.” I went off to take the dentistry exam. Professor Ratego. He started . . . I had made myself a denture. Professor Kurlandski had made it in Moscow, but I couldn’t use it. I rebuilt it. Since I had graduated from a factory apprenticeship school, I was good with metal. And I had made this denture while being observed by doctors who handled prosthetics at the railroad clinic. I went to see him [Ratego]. He asked who had made the denture for me. I said I had made it. He said, “How?” I said it was very simple. He said, “Are you a dental technician?” I said I was not a dental technician and not a dentist. I just came to take the pass / fail exam. (laughs) He looked at it and said, “Well, I can’t say anything about this denture. I can only publish it in a dentistry journal if you write it up.” He was the editor. He said, “Give me your student record book.” I did one question, then the second one. A teacher from that school came, one Colonel Cherkasov, the head of the garrison’s dental clinic. He was a good specialist. One of the best in the city.

He listened for a bit and then said to the professor “Why are you tormenting him? If my doctors knew as much as he does . . . (laughs) Sign.“ Then the internist. I passed all the exams and went to the academy. [He asked], ”You passed? Come to the meeting of the state commission on July 15. You can take the state exam with my students.”

And I passed. I got a grade of “Good” in all subjects. They gave me the title of “dentist.” I got the diploma, but I kept working in personnel. And when things started with the doctors . . . I didn’t want to do it

Mikhail Zamarin, full unedited interview

ID UKR125.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4930nx56

ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN anymore. I went to the dead of the railroad and said “I don’t want to be in management anymore.” I had to travel all over the southern line. There was a line from Kiev to Kharkov, from Kharkov to Kursk, and from Kharkov to Pavlograd. There were fifty-two health facilities. He asked what I wanted. I said I wanted to work in my own field. He said, “We can’t do that. You’re in the reserve of managerial personnel.” I didn’t want to . . . all I could do was leave. And here, again, I ran into item five [a problem due to ethnicity]. I went to the department of managerial personnel and say there. I heard the head of the department talking with the deputy head of personnel for the railroad. He was reporting to him that Zamarin had arrived. We had prepared an order. The head of the personnel department of the railroad division. I didn’t hear it, but he must have said, “Sign it. He said, “Yes, everything’s in order, but there’s a problem with item five.” When I heard that . . . Sorokin came out. [He said,] “Sit and wait. The order will be ready in five minutes.” I said “Don’t sign the order. I’m not going.” He said, “What do you mean?” [I said,] “Because I have a problem with item five.” I went to see the head of the railroad. When I was serving in the military, no one asked who my grandparents were. The way I served shows in my decorations.

Podgorny became first secretary, and he made it happen that I could work in my field. They took two months and then made me a doctor working in prosthetics. I worked there until ‘57. In ‘57, they were supposed to do plastic surgery on me at the Military Medical Academy in Leningrad [St. Petersburg]. I went there and quit my job. They wouldn’t do the operation. I went there, didn’t work for a year, and then at random, met a female acquaintance. [She said,] “Mikhail, are you working? Come work where I work as a department head. I said, “No, I want to be a regular doctor.” [She said,] “No, we have to get things in order.” And I went there and worked until ‘72. In ‘72, they merged two departments, and I was in charge of that [merged] department until ‘80. Then I started doing community service. Since I was a lecturer at the All-Soviet Society of Knowledge, I often spoke at institutes, vocational schools, and high schools. When a veterans’ organization was formed in ‘87, I created a regional organization in Kharkov, and I was chosen to be president of the veterans’ organization for the Frunzensky region. There were 37,000 retired [veterans]. I worked there for three years. I spoke in the region, in the city, in the schools, and then here I became a member of a Jewish organization.

—Thank you very much.

Mikhail Zamarin, full unedited interview

ID UKR125.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4930nx56

ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN

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