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MZPtv Backstage > Nine Lives S1 > Nine Lives

Posted by: Vaughn Mar 1 2011, 09:09 AM

PITCH: http://www.mzp-tv.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3458.0

PILOT: http://www.mzp-tv.co.uk/pilots/ninelives.pdf

Feel free to use our cut-out-and-keep guide to structure your thoughts.

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Story and Plotting :

The Characters :

Script Presentation/SPAG :

Series Longevity/Originality (does it fit on MZP?):

The Showrunner : THE VERDICT :

APPROVED/RE-WRITE/REJECTED (delete as applicable)

Now Say Why... :

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Posted by: reeamya Mar 5 2011, 12:41 PM

Okie dokie. And here's my review.

NINE LIVES

Story and Plotting

The story allows all the main characters great introductions and moments to shine. There are two engaging main threads here: The first has Selina Kyle injured during a robbery gone wrong and having to lay low as she recovers in the shady Stan’s brothel. While it’s homicide Detective Renee Montoya's first day in the Major Crime Unit in GCPD. She’s partnered with Sergeant Harvey Bullock and they start to investigate a brutal, ritualistic murder.

It’s very well done how the two threads eventually intertwine, with Renee and Harvey crossing paths with Selina in the museum. Selina’s at the museum to steal something for her new “boss” Stan while Renee is staking out the place, hoping to catch the person behind the murders. And with Captain Jim Gordon handing over to Renee, a cold case about a spate of thefts and “to find this ” this provides an effective way to have Selina and Renee interact/cross paths in the future.

The pacing of the piece cracks along nicely. It kept me interested and reading along. The also provided a great introduction to the world the characters inhabit with the setting of evocatively described.

As someone who knows only of the universe and Cat woman via the movies and reputation, I never once felt lost or that I was missing backstory. I was able to follow along with the story without feeling baffled, which is a mark of great writing and an excellent adaptation of material.

The only negative I have to say is that Selina’s voice over was not used effectively in the pilot. What seems to be the purpose for her voice over? It doesn’t really add all that much to proceedings. On page 1 Selina voice overs that she hates water and then her voice over disappears until page 24. Where suddenly she begins to voice over again which seems jarring, random and unnecessary. Burn Notice, Scrubs and How I met your Mother are all examples of how voice overs when used effectively become an integral part of the series. Here in Nine Lives, the voice over seemed ephemeral.

The Characters

All the characters come across strongly with even the smaller roles making an impression. Given that this series is an origin story for Cat Woman, the character of Selina Kyle features strongly, after all, this is her story. And from this first episode she makes a great first impression. She comes across as a complex, layered individual. Despite keeping people at a distance, she comes across as likeable. Her actions hinting that she actually cares under that tough exterior. There are tantalising hints to her past, for example in her reactions/knowledge of how to deal with junkies and drug overdoses, but thankfully we’re not bombarded with lots of backstory.

Renee Montoya makes an equally strong impression on me. Her introduction, effortlessly using her duffel bag to take out a fleeing perp while trying to find the person she’s supposed to meet up with, is a classic. She comes across as likeable, smart, driven and principled. She’s a great counterpoint to Selina given that Renee had a more auspicious start to life. And given that she’s been handed the task “to catch this Catwoman” I can see these two just sparking off each other, when they cross paths again in the future.

As both Selina and Renee are so strongly introduced, it makes it a shame that the third main, Holly Go Nightly is so under utilised. She’s introduced in a memorable way, with the drug OD but aside from helping Selina out for a little bit with the museum robbery she doesn’t get much to do. And in comparison to the other two hasn’t really made such a strong impression. Feeling more like a supporting character given that other characters, such as Harvey Bullock or Stan have more of an impact on the plot and/or their interactions with Selina this episode.

However, given the emphasis is on introducing Selina and Renee and their two threads this is understandable.

Script Presentation/SPAG

The script is properly formatted as you’d expect from such an experienced writer like Lee. There were a handful of SPAG errors (spelling mistakes/ missing words) that another quick proof read could have picked up though.

Another issue I noticed was that characters were inconsistently introduced. Some characters were introduced straight away but others were only given names after someone said their name. This happens with two of the main characters, Renee and Holly and also with Kai and the Sensai.

In fact, in Renee Montoya’s introduction she is referred to as “WOMAN” on page 10. On page 12 the description suddenly reads, “Montoya casually retrieves her bag”. In the script, on page 12 Bullock then asks her if she is Montoya and the script then officially names her as ”RENEE MONTOYA”.

Series Longevity/Originality Nine Lives has plenty of life in it (pardon the pun). There’s the potential to tell so many interesting stories involving Selina Kyle and Renee Montoya. Just a quick google search reveals oodles of material on both Catwoman and Renee Montoya for Lee to draw inspiration from. So I’m confident that this series could go far. And given all the interest in the ill-fated Bard Investigations, there’s a definite audience for more comic – verse inspired material.

The Show runner

Lee is a very experienced show runner. There’s not a doubt that he’s capable of running with this and managing his other commitments, if he got the green light.

THE VERDICT

APPROVED.

The pilot was an enjoyable and entertaining introduction to the “Nine Lives” universe. I was impressed that is very accessible to people who know almost nothing about Catwoman. Importantly, it left me wanting more. Wanting to see more of these characters, wanting to find out more about what’s going on. The script isn’t a 100% perfect with occasional SPAG and an unnecessary voice over from Selina but all of this is minor, in that it doesn’t take away from the strength of the pilot.

Posted by: Blackster Mar 13 2011, 09:07 PM

Story and Plotting:

I felt this was a little bit of a departure for Lee, really, and at times it showed. He toned down the sass and snark considerably in order to make this darker than SA or SiB, which he needed to do, but the plotting isn’t quite as airtight at times. After a blisteringly good first page which I expected would set the tone of the thing, it spends quite a chunk going nowhere quite fast. Far too many Sergeant/Diver or Cop/Cop#2 conversations in the first 20 pages and not nearly enough Selina. It felt slow too often, and while admittedly Lee sets up the character dynamics pretty well, it felt a bit of a disjointed piece. On the one hand, he wants to write Leverage – zipping around on breaking/entering missions, Parker-style, with nifty bits of tech. On the other, a Bat-verse version of a Shawn Ryan cop show, all dark murders and corrupt cops. It didn’t gel here for me and it slowed the story down. It just didn’t click when we got to Kai or Sensei or the rather sudden ‘Selina, this is your destiny’ ending. That really felt like Lee connecting dots without much in the way of working for it. The mid-section drags too, before we get Selina off on her mission to the gallery. I was surprised how uninvolved I felt here, when I expected a rip-roaring ride.

I think that stems from a issue with this. Lee has admitted he is taking plotlines and at times snatches of dialogue from his extensive Catwoman comic collection (because he’s not a lying plagiarist weirdo). He’s told me on countless car journeys where he’s taking things from, and the one thing I never said (because I was waiting for this pilot) is that I think essentially adapting these comics is A Bad Idea. Not the plagiarism issue, because he won’t do that, but how well do literal comic-to-TV or TV-to-comic adaptations generally work? Not much. Look at the clusterfuck that Heroes became by trying to be a comic book in TV form. In this case, Lee taking established Catwoman stories and converting them into script – which he’s by and large doing – means you can feel the dots being connected, how ‘this must happen here so THAT can happen’ and so forth, when really we should just get a starting point, the characters from the comics, and go completely fresh. I wouldn’t touch the comic plots AT ALL, bar using characters from them.

The Characters:

These were better. Lee has always been stronger with character than narrative, reflected in the scattershot nature of events I’ve just mentioned, even if no one here truly leaps off the page like a Twist McFadden. While I really don’t feel any connection to Selina, I don’t think I’m supposed to yet – Lee is writing her as emotionally distant so he can warm her up later. Holly grated on me a bit, but that’s no fault of the writing – I just found her one of those annoyingly ‘troubled yet perky’ characters that were a major reason I’ve never clicked with Whedon’s work. She’s placed as a decent foil to Selina’s coldness, even if at times Lee pushes these differences in our face a little too much. Stan only really raised above the level of sleazy pimp in his final moment with Holly, where he was nicely played for menace.

Lee had a far stronger handle on the Gotham Central crew, for me, which is ironic given how that plotline jarred as it if it had been levered in from another genre. Bullock I could picture right from the get go – he had the Mark Boone Junior version from Batman Begins in his head, (EDIT: just remembered he played Flass, but this is who he reminded me of anyway!). I could tell, and he leapt off the page as a cocky, uncaring cop with a secret heart underneath, and played well off the far more serious, dedicated Montoya. Yes, she’s a bit of a cliché (rising all star, clean cop coming to make her mark in a dirty city), but she’s a well written one – and Lee already gets the dynamic between these chalk/cheese players perfectly by the end.

No time for Kai, though. He stank of edam throughout.

Script Presentation/SPAG:

Largely spot on. Only a modicum of SPAG throughout that can be cleaned.

Good, clear direction in evidence too, if occasionally a bit too intrusive. It doesn’t fly off the page like other Chrimes scripts have, only because I’m not convinced it really knows what it wants to be yet. References to Batman or Oracle or the larger verse don’t intrude either, and I love that kind of stuff.

EDIT #1: Lose the voice overs too. They jar and feel like they're pointing the audience too heavily to plot points and character motivation, plus they're way too infrequent and scattershot.

Series Longevity/Originality:

Oh, this could run for years. While I don’t think Lee should adapt the comics, I’m sure he WILL if this goes forward and he’s got about ten seasons of material backed up there to play off from.

Regardless, the Bat-verse is enormous and there’s so much Lee can explore here.

The Showrunner:

It’s Lee.

Admittedly, a year ago I’d have cautioned that he just doesn’t have time to run three shows, but with SA and SiB wrapping up he’d knock out a season of this in no time.

THE VERDICT:

APPROVED

Now Say Why:

Just.

I’m going yay not because I necessarily think it’s good to go, but because there’s nothing here that can’t be fixed in a few months. I also know how much Lee has a yearning to do it and that kind of enthusiasm always ends well. BUT... this pilot ain’t as good as Nine Lives could be yet. The plotting doesn’t quite gel, the characters don’t yet hook me in, I’m unconvinced at the merit of cleving too heavily to adapting the Catwoman source material and it’s just not singing. It needs work, but I’m confident that can be achieved. Anyway... we all know he’ll go ahead and do it either way!

BLACKSTER RATING:

6.5/10

Posted by: Trix Mar 14 2011, 03:20 PM

Story and Plotting:

The story is a bit disjointed; after a good introduction to Selina and Bullock the show takes a while to get going again and we're left with too few pages with our main character before the introduction of Montoya. It's as if Lee has a check-list of moments he needs to get through but not a clear understanding of how they connect to each other.

My big problem is that the two plot threads wind up crossing pretty late in the game and there isn't even proper resolution to the case Montoya and Bullock are assigned. Getting them to the museum to cross paths with Selina and Kai is a good idea in theory but it leaves me with too many questions. Is Kai the murderer? If so why was he after a necklace? Was it all just pot luck that Selina and Kai were after the necklace in the museum Bullock and Montoya were checking out? IT all just happens and then we're on to a different path with Selina's destiny. I like that the two separate threads of Montoya's first day and Selina's bad day end up intertwining but there isn't enough of a for me and it comes quite late on. Given that Gordon puts Montoya onto the "Catwoman" job I'd like to have seen her actually prove herself capable with this first job to actually warrant the faith but it doesn't even get a resolution.

The Characters:

There were some good introductions here for all the characters. Selina is seen in action, Holly's screwed up life is obvious and Montoya's ability is put on show. Bullock is the intro I like best. There's plenty to hate about the guy which makes him a lot of fun to see clashing with the other characters. Gordon is in it enough to show why he's the guy in charge and make the ending feel connected but his meeting with didn't need to happen in this script.

The two pairings work quite well with Bullock and Montoya coming out better with some spark to their relationship. Selina is pretty stand offish at the moment so it doesn't help to win the reader over. Montoya is a pretty cliché character but she's written well and wins me over with her partnership with Bullock. Holly is similarly a bit cliché with her perky attitude in the face of her own troubles that could begin to grate but I'd have to see more of her. She doesn't really get too much to do here to say either way

Stan crept up in my estimations when he threatened Holly and came across as more of a character to be worried about. I had assumed he'd not really be making an impression on the show but I was wrong and that moment gave me hope for the character to be a nice thorn in the side.

Script Presentation/SPAG:

Lee knows how to present a script. There are signs of a rush job in places with missing words, Montoya being named before her intro and Selina opening a door twice. That's just a few things in the first 15 pages so it needs another run through to fix that stuff up.

Getting rid of the V.O. wouldn't be a bad idea. Selina has Holly who she can interact with on a regular basis along with other characters so it's not really something that would be needed to get into Selina's head as it's used in the comics.

Series Longevity/Originality (does it fit on MZP?):

The comics have been going for years so that proves that there is plenty to mine from these characters. If Bard did anything it showed that there would be readers to a comic book inspired VS.

This particular show could go on for a multitude of seasons but at the same time could spawn it's own ComicVerse to go right alongside the other 'Verses that already exist on the board.

Lee has already said what it is he's taken from the comics and I know that he is of the opinion that he doesn't mind moving away from the source material if it means telling the right story which is reassuring.

The Showrunner:

Lee's run multiple seasons of shows that hit 20 episodes a season so he's not going to get much more experienced. There's also no worry that Nine Lives will run into the problems that Bard brought on itself by straying too close to the source material.

THE VERDICT:

RE-WRITE

Now Say Why...:

I've said re-write but at the same time I know Lee has the ability to easily get this pilot up to scratch. I feel that there is a better connected story here to be told and Lee just needs to go back to things and work out if he wants to tell with this story. He's got the styling of Leverage with Selina and Holly using modern and old school moves to steal things and then the dark and gritty cop show on the other side that isn't meshing right just yet. Both can work together it's just not clicking at the moment.

Posted by: Vaughn Mar 16 2011, 02:35 PM

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Story and Plotting :

The is one huge, central flaw with this entire show: the lead character has no motivation. What is she fighting for? What is she stealing for? Where is the conflict and the drama? What exactly is stopping her from just leaving that dump as soon as she wakes up? There's a throwaway line about being turned in, but Stan doesn't even know who Selina is. All she has to do is slink off at some point and go back to where ever she was living before then. The fact she never even tries that, and the script never at least explains why that isn't an option, is a huge problem. All it does is leave us with a protagonist that just shrugs and goes "oh wells, might as well help this guy" and "become a ninja? guess so".

I've been trying to improve my own plotting lately, trying to remember the two key words -- conflict and choices. The protagonist must come into constant clashes with other people and herself, and the protagonist must be driven to making key choices through the script. Nine Lives visibly lacks both those things.

There is also a problem with half a script being taken up with a crime that never goes anywhere and seems entirely designed to end up with Montoya in the same museum as Selina. Why don't we just jump straight in with Montoya chasing the Catwoman? That would make this pilot have more drama.

Something that bugged me a lot: what possible reason did Montoya have for staking out that museum? Because the killer might want a new spear? What the fuckity fuck?

I read up on Catwoman Year One to see what Lee took or left out, seems he's left out the more interesting stuff (Selina becomes a dominatrix and has a cat o nine tails!) and padded it out with more bland stuff, which has left this feeling like a rather generic, by the numbers pilot.

The Characters :

I couldn't really understand Selina. She has quiplash, yet moans and eye rolls when Holly does the same. She shows no real signs of making her own decisions or being a proactive protagonist. She just sort of... goes along with it. I just couldn't empathise with her.

Gotham has such a great rogues gallery, but the villains (ninjas? bleck) weren't very interesting, neither is generic grubby man Stan.

And Jorge Garcia as Bullock is woefully miscast Doesn't fit AT ALL.

I've been plenty impressed with the odd Chrimes script I've seen before, but the dialogue here felt often times extremely out of place. Selina mentioning Pope John Paul and the like, just doesn't fit the world.

Niggle: "Serial? Unsub?" Makes no sense. Firstly, of course it's a serial, there's been 5 identical murders. Secondly, unsub is any unknown subject of an investigation, not a type of killer. When you get these details wrong it makes your characters seem like dumbasses instead of experts. Must research harder!

Script Presentation/SPAG :

Niggle. Why aren't the hunters given names? They have several scenes and reams of dialogue.

A few moments of stating the obviously. When the emotion has already gotten the point across, but the writer feels the need to throw in a "Yeah, she does NOT like this guy" or whatever after. I do it too.

Otherwise, didn't notice any typos or grammar errors.

Series Longevity/Originality (does it fit on MZP?):

Obviously there's endless stories to be ripped from the funny books, and the only other limit is the writer's imagination. Could easily run for 5 seasons. And it's obvious there's an audience for comic book adaps. obvious there's an audience for comic book adaps.

The Showrunner :

I don't think anything needs to be said. Legend of the highest order.

THE VERDICT :

RE-WRITE

Now Say Why... :

If this was anyone else (*cough* Ian Austin *cough*) I'd probably reject it because I knew it could only get worse, but with Lee I know it can definitely get a lot better, so I'm willing to give him a shot. I think if he can make Selina actually make tough decisions and come into more conflict, it could work.

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Posted by: Vaughn Mar 20 2011, 09:31 PM

Okay kids, we have 2 approveds and 2 re-writes.

Given Lee's status and experience, I think that nudges him into the approved category. There are problems, but they're laid bare here and I should think he can fix them.

What do we say?

Posted by: Trix Mar 20 2011, 10:31 PM

As I said I'd be willing to pick the show up. Lee was pushed for time in the last week of Feb so he didn't have any feedback to go on. Now with everything we've thrown at him I think this script could be up to scratch in no time.

I'm also biased having briefly heard Lee's plans for a re-write which are sensible and definitely improvements.

Posted by: Blackster Mar 21 2011, 12:15 AM

Lee knows what he needs to do to make this right, so my approved stays.

Besides, he'll just kill us in our sleep if we say no anyway!

Posted by: reeamya Mar 21 2011, 03:08 AM Posted by: reeamya Mar 21 2011, 03:08 AM

^ Yeah, ditto.

Posted by: Vaughn Mar 21 2011, 07:40 AM

You know what this means! Out comes the stamp

Posted by: Monster Zero Mar 24 2011, 01:29 PM

So what happens now?

Well. As you know, while I'm on the cusp of completing Slayer Academy , I've still got the whole last season of Somewhere InBetween to complete yet, although that's almost fully storyboarded, has about 6 people on staff and should be good to kick off from next month.

So my proposal for NL is as follows - I'll do a full rewrite of the pilot as planned, and I've already got the beginnings of a development board, but I'm going to pencil in a premiere date of January 2012 to air an uninterrupted 13-episode Season One.

This means I've got the rest of this year to complete SiB and work on NL, recruit writers, build a site, get artwork done and so forth (including get a Windows 7- compatible version of Premiere so I can start making credits again!).

Only is whether I post the revised pilot when I do it or leave the existing one up there for now. Thoughts?

I'll be submitting another show in September's Pilot Season, by the way

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