Friday Volume 494 19 June 2009 No. 95

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Friday 19 June 2009

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; Tel: 0044 (0) 208876344; e-mail: [email protected] 539 19 JUNE 2009 540 House of Commons Autism Bill Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public Bill Committee. Friday 19 June 2009 Third Reading

The House met at half-past Nine o’clock 9.45 am Mrs. Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): PRAYERS I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means Mr. Deputy Speaker, I cannot tell you how delighted took the Chair as Deputy Speaker (Standing Order I am to move Third Reading. Reaching this stage is a No. 3). landmark, and our having done so is due not only to me, as the Member who had the privilege of promoting Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): I beg to the Bill, but to the House of Commons at its very best. move, That the House sit in private. This has truly been a cross-party effort involving those on the Conservative, Government and Liberal Democrat Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 163). Benches, and I am delighted that Members of Parliament The House divided: Ayes 0, Noes 45. have come together to try to introduce a Bill which we Division No. 154] [9.34 am hope will make a great difference to so many people’s lives throughout our country. AYES The hon. Member for Portsmouth, North (Sarah McCarthy-Fry) is in her place, although she is no longer Tellers for the Ayes: Mr. Tim Boswell Mike Penning and responsible for part of the subject area that the Bill covers. I am grateful for the attention to detail that she showed, and for her undertakings in her previous role, NOES to which I shall refer later. She has rapidly moved Austin, Mr. Ian Kirkbride, Miss Julie through the ranks and ended up at the Treasury through Baldry, Tony Lammy, rh Mr. David sad circumstances, but I know that her competence will Baron, Mr. John Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew be put to good use in that Department and I am sure Borrow, Mr. David S. Mann, John that hon. Members of all parties wish her well, not least Bottomley, Peter Mates, rh Mr. Michael because of the detailed attention she gave the Bill. Brooke, Annette McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Browne, Mr. Jeremy McIntosh, Miss Anne Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): Before my Browning, Angela Milton, Anne hon. Friend praises more Members from across the Bryant, Chris Mole, Chris House, may I pay tribute to her work in taking the Bill Burns, Mr. Simon Murrison, Dr. Andrew Chope, Mr. Christopher through its passage—something which is, as she said, a Newmark, Mr. Brooks Coaker, Mr. Vernon tribute to the House? She has followed on from the Osborne, Mr. George Cormack, Sir Patrick fantastic work of my hon. Friend the Member for Crabb, Mr. Stephen Rosindell, Andrew Tiverton and Honiton (Angela Browning), who previously Cunningham, Mr. Jim Ruddock, Joan promoted such a measure. The work of my hon. Friend Fallon, Mr. Michael Shaw, Jonathan the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) Fitzpatrick, Jim Simmonds, Mark in bringing proceedings to an excellent conclusion should Gidley, Sandra Skinner, Mr. Dennis be acknowledged on the record. Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Swayne, Mr. Desmond Goodman, Mr. Paul Thomas, Mr. Gareth Mrs. Gillan: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his Harper, Mr. Mark Ward, Claire generous remarks, but it really has been a team effort. Howarth, David Jones, Mr. Kevan Tellers for the Noes: Mr. Tim Boswell (Daventry) (Con): The congratulations Keeley, Barbara Mr. Dave Watts and expressed to my hon. Friend, as well as to my hon. Keen, Ann Kerry McCarthy Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Angela Browning) and to Government Front Benchers, are Question accordingly negatived. well deserved. However, will she reflect on the fact that, although we can legislate here—that is what we do—introducing mere legislation, even with all-party and Government support, to issue guidance is insufficient in itself? Implementation is critical, especially in respect of training and promoting awareness in a community beyond those who directly care for people on the autism spectrum. That is hugely important—perhaps she will comment on it—because unless people understand what is involved, they will act insensitively and many of the advantages that we are trying to secure today will be lost. Mrs. Gillan: My hon. Friend is right. I refer him to clause 2(5)(f), which specifically covers “the training of staff who provide relevant services to adults with such conditions” 541 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 542

[Mrs. Gillan] same report to which she has referred suggests that 90 per cent. of parents worry greatly about how their in the guidance that the Secretary of State issues. That children will survive and cope in society when they leave provision is included for the reasons that my hon. school or university, particularly given the statistic, Friend outlined. which she rightly pointed out, that only 15 per cent. of I pay great tribute to the Minister of State, Department adults with autism are in full-time work. of Health, the hon. Member for Corby (Phil Hope). He is not with us today because he has a vital duty to Mrs. Gillan: That is absolutely correct: the figure is perform in his constituency, so I am delighted that the 15 per cent. However, as my hon. Friend knows, and as Under-Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member I know from meeting many adults with autism, their for Brentford and Isleworth (Ann Keen), is here. I am potential is far greater than that. With a small amount sure that she will do an excellent job today. The Minister of assistance and the correct support, we can allow of State did not start off entirely supporting the Bill, them to fulfil their potential and live their lives. That is but, my goodness, he has got behind it. He has done a what we should be doing in this country. I hope that the first-class job in his current ministerial position, which I Bill, if it becomes an Act, will give this and future am glad he continues to hold, because I hope that he Governments a framework to concentrate on what needs will supervise the legislation, if we are fortunate enough to be provided to that very deserving group of people. to get it through the House today and through the other place in due course. Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): The Bill has the potential to deliver the crucial Following on from that point, it is true that parents improvements needed for the approximately 500,000 worry about their children’s education and ability to live people with autism in the UK, who have been neglected independently, as they go through the various developments for so long. It is the culmination of a great deal of work and cycles of life. However, as a parent, I think—I hope by many people. The effort that has gone into the Bill is that I would speak for many parents—that the biggest a testament not only to the determination and dedication fear is: “What happens when I die?” That has to be of many of my colleagues in the House, on a cross-party addressed. basis, but to a large number of people outside. I have paid tribute to those people in previous speeches, so Mrs. Gillan: That is probably the most moving part perhaps they will forgive me if I do not name them of my encounters with families with children who have today, but the National Autistic Society and all the autism. The terrible fear of someone who has a child other charities that have been involved have done a with a disability of any sort is about what will happen to first-class job on behalf of the group that they represent. that child when they are no longer around to give it the sustenance that it needs. That is why I hope that this I would like also to thank the Members who supported framework legislation will provide a platform from which the Bill and those who served on the Public Bill Committee, Governments can ensure that local authorities and other which shows what we can achieve when we work together. services are structured in such a way as to give greater Lastly, before I get to the substance of the Bill, I would reassurance to people in that situation. like again to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton, who has been a champion on Liz Blackman (Erewash) (Lab): Does the hon. Lady the issue. The Bill builds on her earlier ten-minute Bill not also agree that it is people with high-functioning and—to sound just a small sour note—resulted also autism who are the most hidden from services and that from the Government’s failure to respond or to fulfil their parents have a great deal more to worry about? If their promises on autism in the past. To be truthful, the someone has classic autism, it is blatantly obvious. We Bill is really her Bill, which, because I won a lottery, I might argue about the quality of the services for them, have been fortunate enough to present. but at least they have been identified. That is why it is so Autism was long overdue serious consideration, as important that the Bill translates into reality. outcomes for both children and adults were consistently so much poorer than those for people who do not have Mrs. Gillan: The hon. Lady makes an excellent point. autism. A recent report by the NAS found that 40 per The problem is like an iceberg: we can see the tip, but we cent. of children with autism had been bullied, that cannot see the vast swathe underneath. If people do not 27 per cent. had been excluded from school and that have immediate parental back-up, they will at some 42 per cent. reported that they had no friends. In stage reach a crisis. So many commentators outwith this addition, 70 per cent. had a psychiatric condition House are preoccupied with expenses and money, but accompanying their autism. For adults, the picture is perhaps they would like also to register the fact that even bleaker. The NAS estimates that 63 per cent. of unless we make that help available, it will cost the adults with autism do not receive enough support, while taxpayer a great deal more money to deal with those 82 per cent. of parents or carers of adults with autism individuals in crisis. I count the cost in human terms say that their child needs daily support just to live and think what a loss to our society it would be if an independently. Only 15 per cent. of adults with autism individual did not receive the support that would enable are in full-time work and 75 per cent. do not have any them to fulfil their potential when their parents are no friends or find it very hard to make friends, while 40 per longer there. cent. of adults with autism still live with their parents. We currently fail both children and adults with autism Autism does not really fit in with many of the structures, in this country. and certainly not with local authority service structures. The problem is exacerbated by a lack of understanding Mr. John Baron (Billericay) (Con): I am sure that my of autism among the health and community care hon. Friend would also agree that there is grave concern professionals, particularly those providing assessments. among parents of children and adults with autism. The The resulting exclusion from services can result in an 543 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 544 increase in support needs in the long term, with 33 per I have a few remaining concerns, however, on which I cent. of adults having developed mental health problems should like to seek reassurance from the Minister, together because of a lack of access to services. with any further details that she might be able to give Hon. Members who are familiar with the Bill will see me, especially on implementation, which will be the that it has gone through quite a metamorphosis since next stage if the Bill becomes an Act. The first issue Second Reading. I want briefly to set out why and how relates to data collection. The Minister has recognised it has changed. When the Bill was first introduced, it the importance of data collection to enable organisations required local authorities and their partners to take a to identify and meet the needs of people with autism. strategic approach to meeting the current and future Given that the National Audit Office’s recent report on needs of children and adults with autism in their areas. autism found that identifying and supporting people Following the strong commitments and the undertakings with Asperger’s syndrome or high-functioning autism on data collection and provision for children given by would save the public purse many millions, I would be the hon. Member for Portsmouth, North when she was grateful if she could reassure me that the proactive a Minister with responsibility for schools and learners, measures needed to identify those adults will be put in the clauses relating to children were removed from the place, and that those measures will not have to rely Bill. She made commitments on behalf of the Government, purely on making better use of existing data. In addition, including one to amend the children and young people’s I would like reassurance that a particular focus will be plans—the CYPPs, the key strategic planning tools for placed on identifying adults with Asperger’s syndrome local authorities—in the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children who are not already known to the services. Will she also and Learning Bill. confirm that the definition of people on the autistic spectrum will specifically include those with high- There will now be a new legal duty to ensure that functioning autism and Asperger’s syndrome? local areas collate and share data on disabled children as part of their CYPP needs assessments, and they will The second issue relates to strategic planning and also include children with autism in their plans for joint strategic needs assessments, or JSNAs—hardly a children’s services. I hope that the Minister will nod at snappy title that rolls off the tongue. These are the key me—I know that convention means that she cannot strategic planning tools for the local authorities, but at intervene, but she made a bold commitment on ensuring the moment, more than two thirds of local authorities that the statutory guidance accompanying the regulations have no commissioning strategy at all for adults with will state that autism must be specified as a separate autism, and only 21 per cent. of all JSNAs include any category. I look forward to seeing those provisions mention of the needs of people with autism. Can the enacted later this year in a separate piece of legislation. Minister reassure me that the statutory guidance will specify that JSNAs have to take into account the needs The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Sarah of people with autism? McCarthy-Fry) indicated assent. Another concern relates to identifying which professionals are relevant to autism. The Bill covers all health and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health social care staff, and that is welcome. However, other (Ann Keen) indicated assent. staff who play a large part in supporting adults with autism are not covered—notably those involved with Mrs. Gillan: I see both Ministers nodding, which I employment matters, including Jobcentre Plus staff. will take as confirmation of what will be going through. Will the Minister confirm that professionals who have a In debates, and in meetings with Ministers and officials, particular responsibility for supporting adults with I was pleased to achieve a broad consensus on the need disabilities will receive an appropriate level of training, for legislation and further action, so that people with be it in the field of social care, employment support or autism receive the quality of support that they deserve. another relevant field? I think I see the Minister nodding. The clauses relating to adults now look quite different That would go a long way towards reassuring people from those in the original drafting, but they are completely that, at last, the real needs of people with autism were in keeping with the spirit of the original Bill and in beginning to be considered across all levels. many instances go well beyond what was covered in the first draft. The statutory guidance covers all the crucial David Howarth (Cambridge) (LD): I congratulate the parts, including—I am pleased to say this, because there hon. Lady on getting this far with her excellent Bill. I was a strong feeling among the charities supporting the have one small concern about coverage, to which I hope Bill that these things needed to be included—access to she and the Minister will be able to respond. It relates to diagnosis, needs assessments, transition planning, strategic housing. The definition of a local authority in the Bill planning of support services with adults with autism, rightly refers to the upper tier, which is the tier that and local partnership and co-operation. deals with social services. However, I have come across The Bill now places a duty on the Secretary of State many problems in my constituency involving the housing to introduce a strategy for improving outcomes for needs of people—especially adults—with autism. In a adults with autism, accompanied by statutory guidance two-tier area, housing is dealt with by the lower tier—the for local authorities and NHS bodies. If the Bill becomes district council. I would like some reassurance that law, it will be a catalyst for huge progress in meeting the planning for housing will also be part of the process. needs of the country’s adults with autism. The NAS and other partner organisations, such as TreeHouse, Mrs. Gillan: That is a very valid point; I have come that have been involved with the Bill have been pleased across that issue as well. I hope that the Minister will be with this positive approach, and have warmly welcomed able to give us that assurance, because an indication of the new, amended Bill that I am presenting today on that intention at this stage would ensure that that issue Third Reading. was encompassed by the Bill. 545 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 546

Dr. Andrew Murrison (Westbury) (Con): I congratulate Will the Minister also commit to naming an individual my hon. Friend on the Bill; it represents a positive step in the Department of Health with responsibility for the forward. I, too, am concerned about coverage. Those success or failure of the strategy? A clearly identified who work in further education make a big contribution person in an official post covering this area would give in this regard, and I suspect that, in the old days, such the assurance that continuing attention will be paid to provision would have been covered by the Bill, because the outcomes for people with autism. One of the problems FE came under the remit of local government. That is that the families of people with autism face is that, no longer the case now that its funding comes from the when they try to address an issue with a Government Learning and Skills Council, whose many problems we Department, they are unable to track down an individual have heard about in recent months. Does she feel that with a title, a post or a name to whom they can direct FE should be covered by her Bill? Perhaps it is, and I their questions. Their case seems to disappear into a have missed it. It would certainly be a serious omission spongy area in the Department to be handled by whoever if it were not. is the latest official to deal with it. I hope that the Minister will be able to give me some reassurance on Mrs. Gillan: My hon. Friend raises a point that has that point. gone through my mind, but this is not an all-encompassing, catch-all Bill. I am afraid that there are lots of areas not covered by the Bill that, in an ideal world, I would have Liz Blackman: I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady liked to cover. Unless my interpretation of my own about having someone in the Department of Health legislation is incorrect, I do not believe that further with that specific responsibility. Will she pay tribute to education is specifically covered in the Bill. However, the Department, however, for having such a dedicated there is a possibility that the Minister may address the person in place at the moment? Let us hope that that matter, because access to education and skills is extremely continues. important for any adult with autism. Indeed, one of the major problems that we are seeking to address is the Mrs. Gillan: Absolutely. The hon. Lady’s point is transition from childhood to adulthood, alongside trying taken. The trouble is, however, that everything changes. to identify that swathe of individuals hidden under the I am looking for continuity, security and stability in this surface who fail to get any help or support at all. I hope area, because a constant state of flux is good for neither that the Minister will be able to address these points. I man nor beast. suspect that if I had attempted to introduce an all- A further remaining concern relates to ensuring the encompassing piece of legislation, it might not have got commitment of all the relevant Departments. I am sure as far as this stage. that the Minister will agree that joint working across the I was talking about the statutory guidance, which Departments is essential for achieving an effective strategy covers the assessment of the needs of adults with autism. for people with autism. What measures does her This represents a crucial step forward, as a proper needs Department intend to put in place to ensure, for example, assessment by suitably qualified professionals is the that the Department for Work and Pensions plays a full gateway to appropriate and effective support. I would and active part in developing and implementing the like some reassurance from the Minister that the assessments relevant parts of the autism strategy? will be person-centred—I do not like that term, but it does express the meaning—and that they will be carried Finally, the ultimate success of the strategy and statutory out by professionals with an appropriate level of autism- guidance will depend not only on their content but on specific training. how well they are implemented, as my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Mr. Boswell) said. I would like A vital part of the strategy’s success will be the timing the Minister to guarantee that the implementation plan and scope of the consultation. The Minister of State, will be consulted on as part of the strategy consultation; Department of Health, the hon. Member for Corby if not, will she outline the steps the Department would (Phil Hope), assured us that the dates announced were be prepared to take to develop the plan to ensure that it the latest ones, and that he expected the strategy and the is robust and practical? guidance to be issued much sooner than the timetable indicated. I am aware, however, that they will be staggered, Adults with autism are much more likely to experience and not released in tandem. Will the Minister outline in mental health problems, bullying and unemployment, her speech the timetable for the publication of the and to be reliant on family or the state for support. We documents? Ideally, there should not be too large a gap must put that right, so that the needs of people with between the two publications. In addition, will she autism receive proper attention. They deserve the legal assure me that, if there is to be a separate consultation footing that could flow from this legislation, not least to exercise for the statutory guidance, her Department will redress the position that has resulted in the outcomes of seek the views of all stakeholders, and not just local so many being so poor. authorities and NHS bodies, as stated in the Bill? I realise that others might want to contribute to the Another issue of timing involves the review of the debate, so I will draw my remarks to a close. Better data strategy, and the question whether it should be revised if and information collection at the national and local it does not produce the intended results. In Committee, level has an important part to play in improving outcomes, the Minister of State said that he did not wish to make a as does better access to diagnosis and support. If the time commitment in relation to when such reviews Bill becomes law, the information collected under it will might take place. His reasoning was fairly acceptable, have the potential to improve our understanding of the but questions remain about what might trigger such a support needs of adults with autism, to raise expectations review. Will the Minister outline how the success of the on local services and to ensure that professionals who strategy will be monitored, and what indicators would work with people with autism are properly trained to trigger a review? understand their problems. 547 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 548

To conclude, each and every person deserves the best State on responding so comprehensively and enthusiastically possible chance to make the most of their talents and to the challenge. It was a great moment when he moved fulfil their potential, as I have said before, including the clauses in Committee. people with autism. As was illustrated by the National I am pleased that the hon. Member for Chesham and Audit Office report, by not providing adequate support Amersham decided that it was right to focus on the to people with autism, we are wasting not only large adult strategy and transition in this particular vehicle. I amounts of taxpayers’ money, but human talent and am also pleased that she has been reassured by the lives. I hope that the Bill will act as a catalyst for change. Department for Children, Schools and Families that it I am very proud to have been able to continue other is committed to promoting and improving services for people’s work and introduce this legislation by working children. Nevertheless the statistics for the adult autistic with people across all sides of the political divide and in community remain dire, shocking and stark, and that the best interests of our society and community. reflects variable practice, to say the least, and bleak When we are trying to do something that will affect prospects for so many. It is worth repeating those statistics: so many people’s lives and that shows the House of 63 per cent. of adults with autism say that their needs Commons at its best, I think it is a shame that there are are not met; a third have mental health problems; 40 per no hordes of journalists in the Press Gallery here to see cent. carry on living at home; and only 15 per cent. are what the House really does for this country. I see a sole, in full-time work. Moreover, 67 per cent. of local authorities single, lonely journalist up there, perhaps reporting on and 77 per cent. of primary care trusts do not collect these matters. He is to be congratulated, and it is a great data. It is scarcely surprising that the National Audit shame that more people outside the House do not Office found that a good diagnosis, particularly of concentrate on the good that we do as a group in it high-functioning autism, would save the taxpayer many rather than on the subjects covered in newspapers today. millions. Equally unsurprising is its finding of the high I am proud to commend this Bill to the House. level of frustration experienced in accessing services by so many adults with autism. 10.12 am The key question—and the reason we are all here—is how we make our expectations translate into reality in Liz Blackman (Erewash) (Lab): I start by putting it order to secure improved services and improved outcomes on the record that I was wrong on Second Reading not for the autistic community. Well, as we know, the process to wish the Bill to go into Committee. I felt at that time has already begun irrespective of our disagreements that the strategy and process announced by the Minister along the way. We all endorse the practical framework of State, Department of Health, my hon. Friend the set up to consult on the strategy—the external reference Member for Corby (Phil Hope) was correct—that we group, which reflects the range of stakeholders and is should just get on with it and move towards delivery as chaired by Mark Lever, the chief executive of the National soon as possible. However, much water has passed Autistic Society. under the bridge since 27 February, when the Bill had its lively, very knowledgeable and somewhat tetchy debate Four main pillars have been identified: health; social on Second Reading. The crux of the tetchiness was the inclusion, embracing employment, to which I will return; point I have just made—about deciding the right way choice and control; and training. What makes the Bill forward to achieve our common aims. Between then so novel is its explicit requirement that the Government and 13 May, massive consensus broke out, and what we must produce a strategy. It requires the Government to have before us now goes a very long way to meeting all improve services for adults and sets a clear time limit— our sincerest wishes. The Bill now goes further and is 1 April 2010, so I hope we do not meet it, as the better than the original. expectation is that the strategy should be completed by I hugely congratulate the hon. Member for Chesham the end of the year. The limit merely allows flexibility and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan). As my hon. Friend the and will be kept under review. Member for Burton (Mrs. Dean), chair of the all-party The statutory guidance is to be consulted on and group said, we would not be here or have come so far, issued by 31 December 2010. We hope that the interval had the hon. Lady not chosen to introduce a private between the strategy and the guidance will be as small Member’s Bill on autism. Behind the scenes, my hon. as we can make it, as the hon. Member for Chesham Friend played a vital part in discussions in progress. She and Amersham said. The statutory guidance will apply is a modest person and would blush to hear it, but I pay to local authorities and NHS bodies—including mental tribute to her. health trusts, which is vital. We had an interesting debate in Committee on how binding the guidance will Mrs. Gillan: I omitted to mention the hon. Member be on foundation trusts. Because of their autonomous for Burton (Mrs. Dean) in my speech, although I had nature, it will not be binding, but a primary care trust her name written on my post-it notes. I apologise and contracting with such a foundation trust will still need would like to acknowledge the enormous amount of to ensure that its statutory duty is fulfilled through the work that she did. I am sorry that she cannot be here commissioning process, so there are some safeguards in today, but I know that she is busy in her constituency. the system. Clause 2 covers all the crucial points that we in the Liz Blackman: I also pay a huge tribute to the hon. all-party group have argued for over many years. Improving Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Angela Browning) these services will be a challenge. Diagnosis will have to for her promotion of this cause. As I said on Second be done by suitably qualified people, and it may need to Reading, she was for many years a lone voice in the be done, as the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton House, trying to improve services right across the spectrum. argued on Second Reading, out of area. Diagnosing I also offer huge congratulations to the Minister of high-functioning autism and Asperger’s syndrome is 549 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 550

[Liz Blackman] The Department for Work and Pensions should ensure that Connexions provide information to all young people with autism much more tricky and difficult than diagnosing classic on Employment Support Allowance and Disability Living Allowance. autism. As I said, that group is often hidden from JobCentre Plus should ensure that all transition plans include services. young people’s employment goals and outline the work support programmes available to them.” The same applies to needs assessments. Transition planning of relevant services is vital, and I am pleased Those are all relevant recommendations, and I hope that the Bill includes that. The all-party group has just that the Government will give them serious consideration completed a report on transition and has made a number and implement them. of recommendations to the Government. Some are The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham more relevant to the Department for Children, Schools mentioned strategic planning. Some 74 per cent. of and Families, but many are relevant to other Departments, local authorities do not have a commissioning strategy including the Department of Health. for adults with autism. We are starting from an extremely low base, and that will be one of the biggest challenges One of the report’s main recommendations is: to shifting the culture. “Guidance should require Directors of Children’s Services to maintain a database of the numbers of children with autism in On training, I welcome the wider definition of relevant their area and share this information with Adult Services.” services caught by the National Health Service Act 2006 and the Local Authority Social Services Act 1970. I think that that commitment has already been made. It Extending the definition’s scope is helpful. However, also recommends: 80 per cent. of GPs told the NAO that they need more “Guidance should require that Directors of Children’s Services training and only 29 per cent. of local authority staff and Directors of Adult Social Services co-operate to review and who are responsible for needs assessment have training plan services for young people with autism on a regular basis, including those children with complex needs in out-of-authority in high-functioning autism. As has been said, Department placements. for Work and Pension staff are not caught within the The Government should extend the duty on local authorities definition of relevant services. to ensure that a multi-agency person-centred transition plan is On jobs, we cannot underestimate the importance of developed for each pupil with autism who receives support at trying to support people with autism, in particular School Action Plus from the age of 14, in addition to those with a those with the high-functioning condition, in getting statement of SEN. meaningful employment. Whether one has a disability The disabled children’s services national indicator (N154) should or not, employment is crucial to how people live their be extended and young people’s views gathered in a survey so that lives and feel about themselves. It gives an immense there is a specific focus on transition against which local areas can feeling of self-worth. Jobcentre Plus staff are not covered be measured. Any future review of the local government performance framework should address the needs of disabled young people by the definition of relevant services. In particular, during transition to adulthood. disability employment advisers and personal advisers, and also health care professionals involved in work The Government’s learning disability employment strategy should address the needs of young adults with autism, including capability assessment, are not caught by it and are not Asperger syndrome, in line with Public Service Agreement 16.” required to have training. We need buy-in from all relevant Departments to make a difference. The DWP Mr. David S. Borrow (South Ribble) (Lab): Does my must take ownership of relevant parts of the strategy. I hon. Friend share my concern about the difficulties that hope that the Minister will give us some comfort on some young adults with autism face when, having settled how we are going to ensure that other Departments into employment and sorted out their lives, a disruption play their part. in the workplace throws all the good work that has been Employment has to be a top priority. There are done to the four corners of the earth? Stable, steady brilliant examples of young and older people with employment that could have gone on for several years, autism who have been happily placed and are settled in and the stable, steady life that would have existed for their work. I met a young woman at an event the other those years, can be lost because of a change of manager, day. She has high-functioning autism but is immensely or another change within the workplace, that disrupts talented in IT. She works for BT, where she is supported the regular pattern. Young adults with autism find that extremely well, and told me about Goldman Sachs, particularly difficult to manage. which also does sterling work in embracing young people with such skills and in supporting them in the workplace. Liz Blackman: I agree. The culture of the workplace The shopping centre at Meadowhall in Sheffield has a is a key factor in getting young people with autism into good reputation for doing the same thing. employment and keeping them there. It is a real challenge On local leadership, some time ago the all-party to shift that culture. I shall say more about employment group took evidence from people in local authorities in a moment. who had specific responsibility for autistic people’s There are four more recommendations on the report’s services. One individual—I think from the authority of list. I want to read them into the record because transition Sussex; if I have got it wrong, I apologise—was incredibly is a crucial process. If we get that right, we are far more good. He had seized the agenda by getting all the likely to get adult services configured in a way that stakeholders together and making the system work. The secures good outcomes. The report continues: services for adults in that authority were far better than in many others. “The Government should ensure that all children with autism have opportunities to undertake meaningful work experience in As I said on Second Reading, we can have a Bill, a Year 10. strategy, statutory guidance and all the rest, but it will The Government must ensure that disability support advisors not make a ha’p’orth of difference if they are not at further education colleges and universities have autism training. implemented. Implementation is complex, but has to be 551 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 552 driven from the centre and from local leadership. We is in her place I want to flag up a few key points. The need to see sight of the implementation plan, sooner National Audit Office report came before the Public rather than later, in the strategy. The whole strategy Accounts Committee on Monday, and three Departments needs rigorous, detailed monitoring. were represented at the session. I requested for them all to be asked to come back and report on progress in a Mrs. Gillan: Does the hon. Lady agree that it is not year’s time, because there is a lot of compatibility just the implementation that is important; it is also between the NAO report and what the Bill intends to continuing the momentum in other Departments where achieve. Having listened to the three departmental there has been partial awareness of the strategy and representatives, who included a permanent secretary, I partial implementation of it? One of the things that I now think that the Department for Work and Pensions have been hunting for in the NAO report is that since has a long way to go to get up to speed. I will not go November 2005 the Department responsible for disability through all the issues that were addressed as we discussed employment advisers, the DWP, has been taking on them in Committee, but I must stress that getting people updated training so that the advisers are more aware of into training and employment is essential. the needs of people with autism. The figures for Great The hon. Member for Erewash (Liz Blackman) has Britain are that been a great advocate in this House for the need to “of around 500 full-time equivalent Disability Employment address the autistic spectrum, and I congratulate her on Advisors…275 have completed the updated training.” the work she has done over many years. She said she That is a good thing, but this is not only a question of thought I was a lone voice, but when she joined the implementation. We must also continue the momentum House I did not feel that I was alone any more. It is that has already started and been seeded in various good that so many MPs now not only talk about Departments. That is as important as using legislation autism, but are able to handle constituency casework in as a framework to drive things forward. a way that makes a difference for people with autism. The hon. Lady made the point that when we see that Liz Blackman: Absolutely, but it is all part of the done well—and it gladdens the heart to see it done same package: implementing something is a moving well—it seems simple to do, and that that is how it process and training is at the heart of that. should be done everywhere. The PAC listened to the three speakers at the session we held on Monday I am very proud to be speaking here today in support afternoon, and there was a noticeable change in view: of a Bill which, if properly implemented, will make a not only was there understanding, but there was a huge difference to so many people and, crucially, their recognition that we must implement the changes being families and carers as well. I wish it well. proposed. I want to raise three points. The first of them is about 10.40 am the statementing process for children in education. We Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): I must be very careful that statementing in relation to begin by joining other speakers in thanking and paying autism does not neglect those children on the autistic tribute to the many Members from all parts of the spectrum who do not have a statement of educational House who have played their part in bringing this Bill to needs. There are many of them and, over recent years, fruition as it receives its Third Reading today. I must the statementing process itself has changed and the also pay particular thanks to my hon. Friend the Member criteria have changed, and the people on the more able for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan), who is a end of the spectrum, particularly the Asperger’s group, true friend to me. She has worked tirelessly on this are less likely to be formally statemented, although their subject. She chose it, having finished No. 1 in the needs may be understood and known in the classroom. private Member’s Bill ballot; I have been a Member for When people in that group enter the transitional almost 18 years, and I have never even got into the top period between leaving school and going into further 20, so she was right when she said she felt as though she education or training and ultimately—we hope—into had won a lottery. She could have chosen many other employment, it is important that they are not excluded subjects, but she chose to promote a Bill on autism. I purely because they have not had the insurance policy believe that she will be remembered for many great of a statement and because there is a rationing system things in her parliamentary career, but this will certainly in place that addresses only those with a statement of be one of her most memorable achievements. Its impact educational needs. will be felt long after she has left the House, and it will benefit many people and their families. John Bercow (Buckingham) (Con): First, may I apologise for my tardiness in coming to the Chamber this morning? I also want to pay tribute to the two Ministers who What my hon. Friend says is absolutely right, and does have brought the Bill through to this stage. Although it she agree that it is not only a question of children was a battle in the beginning, it turned out all right in without statements but who are on the spectrum—perhaps the end—and it turned out better as a result. There was with Asperger’s—being vulnerable, but that there is a cross-party support and Members from different parties very real sense in which they can be more vulnerable worked with each other, and although there were some than anyone else for precisely the reason that she offers: tough negotiations—as my hon. Friend knows only too that they do not have what she calls an insurance policy well because she was part of them—there was also good and what I call the comfort blanket or safety valve of a will and a desire to do something good. I am sure we statement? My son is on the spectrum. He has high- have achieved that in this Bill. functioning autism and he is very fortunate to have a I shall try today to break a personal record by making statement, but I have lost count of the number of a shorter speech on autism than I have made before—the children I know who are similar to him but who do not House will be relieved to hear that—but as the Minister have that protection. 553 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 554

Angela Browning: My hon. Friend has devoted a lot If we are to serve this population properly, we need to of time to, and developed a lot of expertise in, this topic ensure that when they need mental health services, they and related subjects, and he is absolutely right. It is very not only get the right ones but they are supported so important that the practical application of what we are that they do not end up with a mental health problem legislating for today does not lead to silos being created on top of the autism. Once those two things become and to the exclusion of the very people who need help entwined, it can be difficult to find a psychiatrist who the most, but who are not able to articulate that. can actually unravel what is a mental health symptom The second issue that I want to flag up is to do with and disorder from what is Asperger’s behaviour in crisis. social services assessments. I shall be writing yet again Very few people in this country can disaggregate the to Devon county council this week—I have lost count two behaviours and not only diagnose them, but, if of how many times I have written to it about this—because necessary, medicate appropriately for them. yet again a social worker has told a mother, “We cannot I have been involved in two debates in this House on assess or do anything for your Asperger’s child because people who fall foul of mental health. When they fall they probably have an IQ of over 70.” The mother has foul of mental health, all too often—these are not rare now pursued the council to such an extent that it is occasions—people with autism, particularly Asperger’s going to do an IQ test. However, if the council finds syndrome, are misdiagnosed with conditions such as that the IQ is over 70, which for an Asperger’s child it schizophrenia and are then medicated for schizophrenia, probably will be, that will be its get-out clause for but the medication does not work. Why would it work saying, “Sorry, not learning disabled, so we can’t do for someone who does not have the condition? Such anything.” Department of Health circulars have been people work their way down through a catalogue of issued telling people not to exclude Asperger’s children different, very strong drugs, trying them out to see in this way. I have a copy, which I shall send to Devon whether they have an effect. By the time they reach drug county council. I shall also send it the text that the number five, their brain is scrambled. I have seen at first permanent secretary at the Department of Health gave hand the results of what happens when artistic people to the PAC on Monday afternoon, showing that that is with high IQs, who at one time could do the most not how councils are meant to treat Asperger’s children. wonderful paintings, are misdiagnosed and drugged Somehow, however, when such circulars get sent out, with five highly powerful drugs—they end up with they end up getting put in a filing cabinet and, conveniently, scrambled brains; I can give no other description. the information does not trickle down to the practitioners As I have said before—this will probably be the last on the ground: the social workers, the educational time that I say this in this House—if a cardiologist psychologists and so forth. For some reason, they are misdiagnosed someone’s heart condition and misprescribed unaware of this advice. I will deal with Devon county in that way, they would be sued, and it is outrageous council, but— that this country’s mental health services, particularly John Bercow: I would rather be on your side! those in the provinces, away from the centres of excellence in the bigger cities and towns, have not got the expertise Angela Browning: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for to treat people with autism not only with dignity, but in that remark. I am so weary of having to keep writing a way in which they deserve to be treated. I say to the the same thing over and again. I ask this of the Minister: Minister that I hope that the outcomes and the practical when the new information goes out, which will be after application of this Bill will ensure that we do not treat I have retired from this place, will she please make sure people with autism like that any more—it is criminal; that it does not fall victim to what I call “the filing there is no other word for it. cabinet syndrome” so that it never sees the light of day, because that involves a great disservice. I am grateful to the House for this opportunity to I made a final point on Monday to the permanent speak, and I look forward to seeing in practice, out secretary at the Department of Health, but I will repeat there among the autistic community, the outcome of it now. I have raised two separate debates particularly this wonderful Bill. about Asperger’s syndrome and mental health services. We know—my hon. Friend the Member for Chesham 10.43 am and Amersham gave the statistics—that the whole spectrum of autism, including Asperger’s syndrome, is not of Annette Brooke (Mid-Dorset and North Poole) (LD): itself a mental health disorder, but people with Asperger’s I congratulate the hon. Member for Chesham and can develop mental health problems. After all, if any of Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) on introducing the Bill, on the us had that syndrome and we had struggled to be like vast amount of detailed work that she has undertaken everybody else in society—to make friendships, to form and, in particular, on her tenacity. Excellent joint working relationships, to get a job, to cope independently with has been done across the parties and with the Government, life and to communicate with people, because it is a and she has brought certain skills to that: her good communication disorder—and by the time we reached humour, her diplomacy, her negotiating skills and much our early 20s we got nowhere, we would all develop very more. All that has brought us to the point that we have serious depression and mental health disorders. Such a reached today. development is quite common and, as has been expressed, I also congratulate the hon. Member for Tiverton it arises because of a lack of basic facilities and support. and Honiton (Angela Browning), who has obviously Some of the support required is fairly low budget; the made an enormous contribution. It began long before I National Audit Office report shows how spending a joined this House, but I have been very much aware of little can save a lot. The problem is that a bit of what she has done. In addition, she has been connected spending in one Department may mean that a lot is with quite an important organisation that serves my saved in another Department, so inter-departmental constituency, although it is not located within it: the interests emerge—again, we are talking about the silo effect. Wessex Autistic Society. It is a great honour to follow 555 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 556 her. She has brought reality to what we are discussing what the guidance should include, but this Bill creates a today and shown us just how serious some of the precedent that will be incredibly useful across the board. shortcomings are in the services for children and adults I give notice of the fact that next time I am on a with autism. We are aware of those shortcomings and Committee I shall have this Bill in my pocket, because it we have lots of statistics on them, but by talking about is excellent. It is just what we need on this particular the misdiagnoses and what actually happens—the breaking subject. up of people into little bits—we identify what we are Undoubtedly, the Bill has been a catalyst for the about today: we are trying to remedy that situation. Government introducing their raft of proposals, and The Liberal Democrats supported the Bill on Second today we have the opportunity to put those proposals Reading and made it clear that we wanted to have on a statutory basis. Most of my time in Parliament is further discussions in Committee. We wanted to do spent talking about children, so I just wish to refer everything we could to support that process, as we felt it briefly to children with autism before I get on to discussing could only be beneficial. We did not want to rely just on what is now the main part of the Bill. I was pleased the Government’s promises, although I am sure that the when early on the Government committed to amending motivations behind those were good. We needed to the children and young people’s plans through the ensure that the Bill had more bite in order to ensure that Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill, we made progress. which placed a new legal duty to ensure that local areas I also congratulate the hon. Member for Erewash collate and share data on disabled children as part of (Liz Blackman), who was graceful in expressing that we their CYPP needs assessment and include children with are rather pleased with this Bill—that is important. autism in their plans for children’s services. We also Although I played a very small part, I will have some have a commitment that the statutory guidance that pride in it if we are able to say that we have really accompanies the regulations will state that autism must changed matters. I congratulate the Ministers who have be specified as a specific category. The announcement been involved, because a great deal of work has been of further funding for the Autism Education Trust to done to reach this position, and the large number of improve services commissioning is also welcome. All organisations that have been involved—I should at least those commitments go beyond what the original Bill mention the National Autistic Society. I am sorry that I covered, and are very pleasing. Although the Bill is a only managed to attend two Committee sittings out of big step forward, there is much more to be done, and three. The one that I missed was the crucial one, but I much to be improved, in children’s services. We know have, of course, read the Hansard record in great detail from the parents we talk to about the gaps that remain, so I hope that I am fully au fait with everything. That and the situation must be reviewed and monitored. was a very important sitting and involved the unusual Children’s services have improved over the years, but situation where the promoter of the Bill proposed that the situation remains dire for transition and adult services, her clauses be deleted and replaced by Government with woeful gaps. It is so important that we have reached clauses. this point today, and at least made a start in addressing the dreadful gap in services. I was pleased to serve on John Bercow: The hon. Lady has rightly paid gracious the cross-party panel of MPs that was established to tribute to the NAS. I am always conscious that there are conduct hearings on services for disabled children. What unsung heroes and heroines who are actively working we heard, loudly and clearly, was that parents felt that and deploying all their skills behind the scenes to secure they had got through the school years only to have to our objectives. Therefore, rather than confine myself to start all over again with the transition to adult services. paying tribute to the NAS, I am inclined to invite her to We heard again and again that successful transitions pay particular tribute to its chief executive, Mark Lever, could be achieved only by parents literally screaming to Amanda Batten, to Beth Reid and, last but by for the services that they needed. no means least, because she is a precocious talent, to The problems include inadequacy of transition planning, Ellen Broomé. lack of communication between children’s and adult Annette Brooke: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his services, and a lack of co-ordination between different intervention; I am very pleased to support it, although I services and agencies. We have referred to the National am rather conscious of all the people whom we are not Audit Office report, and I wish to cite more statistics mentioning. Thus, I shall not go too far along that line, from it. A quarter of parents surveyed in 2006 felt that except to say that my unsung heroes include the support transition support was co-ordinated. In other words, groups that I meet in my constituency, one of which is 75 per cent. did not think so. Only one in three parents for adults with autism and Asperger’s and another of felt that Connexions’ knowledge of autism was adequate. which is for parents whose children are at school and The lack of assurance of support when a statement have such conditions. Their needs are very different, comes to an end has been a problem for so long. We and that brings home to people the real battle that know where the gaps are and what is needed. We know parents have all the way along the line. I wish to echo that we need multi-agency assessment at the right time, the earlier point that parents’ greatest fear is what will transition plans to be developed with families, and happen when they die—that never fails to touch my appropriate goals set. heart—and we know that we have to make things better I add my congratulations to the hon. Member for for that reason. Burton (Mrs. Dean), which I hope the hon. Member for May I return to the new structure of the Bill? I think Erewash (Liz Blackman) will take on board, and the that I shall refer to this Bill—and later, to the Act—many all-party parliamentary group on autism on its recently times, because it contains a great deal of detail. I have published inquiry and report on transition into adulthood been told so many times that a certain thing is not by young people on the autism spectrum. The key suitable to go in a Bill when the discussion has been of points identified include effective and timely planning; 557 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 558

[Annette Brooke] the Minister, who clearly took that on board and adjusted the way in which the guidance should be applied to realistic but stretching expectations; the need to enable NHS authorities. That struck me as a landmark in the young people to reach their full potential, because we debate. have had too much waste in our society for so long; We have started the journey. We have the luggage and effective joint working across services; and a key contact. the map, but will we reach journey’s end? It is such a I am very keen on the latter point, because when parents long journey. The NAO found that 74 per cent. of local and young adults are engaging with a raft of services authorities do not have a commissioning strategy for they need to have just one person to talk to and to liaise adults. Some 80 per cent. of GPs told the NAO that with. Other key points include furthering the understanding they needed additional training and guidance. This of autism by training for all professionals involved; is a huge problem and we must not underestimate accessible information for young people and their families; how much needs doing. Training is necessary across and appropriate funding. The key recommendations the board. from that report and inquiry will be timely for the Hon. Members have mentioned Jobcentre Plus, and consultation on the strategy and the statutory guidance it is my experience that even when a young adult is on the Bill. provided with a contact at Jobcentre Plus who is said to The amended Bill will put a duty on the Secretary of have had the relevant training, communication is still State to introduce a strategy for improving outcomes difficult—that is probably the politest way to put it—for for adults with autism, accompanied by statutory guidance whatever reason. I have seen some of the e-mails that for local authorities and NHS bodies. It will provide a have resulted, and the dissatisfaction. Communication huge opportunity for progress in meeting the needs of is a two-way process, and it is difficult, but we need so adults with autism. The new clause goes beyond what much more training. We know that more young adults was originally proposed, and the statutory guidance could be in work, and those who are not in work need to will cover all the crucial aspects, including access to access benefits and not get into financial problems diagnosis; needs assessments; transition planning; strategic because their benefits have been cut off following their planning of support services for adults with autism; failure to fill the forms in on time. We also need cultural and local partnership and co-operation. changes and the resources—we should not pretend that On diagnostic services, I recently received a representation resources will not be necessary. As has been pointed from a unitary council in the south-west. It said that in out, some of the proposals in the Bill mean investing to the council’s area save. Unfortunately, local finances do not always work “there is no diagnostic service for adults with autism/autistic like that, because the money is not available in the year spectrum. This means they are unable to access any services and when the investment is needed. I would like the Government support they might be entitled to and this should be seen as to take that on board. There has to be longer-term Disability Discrimination. These people, even if high functioning, financial planning for local authorities, health services are most likely to fall under the category of Vulnerable Adults. and all others who are involved. The only way to achieve a diagnosis/assessment locally is to go privately—which may be unachievable due to financial constraints”. We have rightly raised expectations with this Bill, but as well as raising expectations and making these excellent Many families may be unable to take that step— proposals today, we all have a duty to continue to work on a cross-party basis at all levels of government and to David Howarth: Similar situations occur in many encourage all relevant services to work together. We can parts of the country. Even in Cambridge, where one do better and we must do better. would expect a higher level of service, many parents find that the only way in which they can get a diagnosis is to take part in academic research projects. That 11 am should not be how it works. John Bercow (Buckingham) (Con): It is a pleasure and a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Mid-Dorset Annette Brooke: I thank my hon. Friend for that and North Poole (Annette Brooke), with whom I have intervention, and that is why I am so pleased to see the been pleased to work as a co-conspirator for improved level of detail in the Bill. The changes that need to take children’s and young people’s services for an appreciable place will not come about without the detail that I period of time. Today is a very important day. It is one mentioned earlier. that we should mark, that we should celebrate and that On the issue of data collection, the National Autistic we should regard as the springboard to greater things. Society survey found that 67 per cent. of local authorities I begin my hopefully brief remarks by apologising and 77 per cent. of primary care trusts do not collect again for my late arrival in the Chamber. I was detained any data on adults with autism. It is clearly a crucial in my office for a short period on other matters, but I starting point to determine the scale of the problem. I certainly did not want to miss the opportunity to be concur with the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham present today. that we need to be sure that we go the whole way—that Most of the substance of what is in the Bill has been we do not just work with the people we know about, covered and I do not think that it will benefit from but reach out and identify those who have not been further repetition. I want to say a few thank yous, and identified before. to underline what I think is important about the issue I read with interest the references in the Committee and this place. First, thanks, of course, are due to my Hansard to section 7 of the Local Authority Social hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham Services Act 1970, and the hon. Member for Tiverton (Mrs. Gillan), who has piloted the Bill through the and Honiton drew our attention to the fact that it was House with the combination of eloquence, skill and ineffective and not actually implemented. I congratulate patience for which she is renowned in all parts of the 559 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 560

House. That was a considerable feat, because at first the Liz Blackman: On that point, there is no harm in Government were not keen on the idea of the Bill. My repeating that message several times in this Chamber. hon. Friend, with good-humoured insistence, kept it up, pressed the case and would not take no for an answer. John Bercow: I rather expected that the hon. Lady She was absolutely right to adopt that approach. would be tolerant of and sympathetic to the point. I want to pay tribute to the Government, too. I always felt that the Government had good intentions in Let us go forward in a spirit of togetherness and this matter. I did not subscribe to the rather tedious, determination to make things better. I think that we all old-fashioned, boring and partisan view of some people agree that this subject is important. I sometimes make that the Government were out to scupper the whole the point that politics is, in one sense—and perhaps idea. The issue was about how to achieve the objective, only one sense—analogous to a market place. Just as in not whether to do so. As someone who has worked with a market place, huge numbers of products compete for the hon. Members for Erewash (Liz Blackman), for custom, so, in the field of politics, huge numbers of Burton (Mrs. Dean) and the Under-Secretary of State, I issues compete for attention and priority. On the basis know that the Government are serious about these that people of good will can fairly readily forge consensus matters and that they have done a considerable amount about what needs to be done on the issue of autism, the on the subject. That is an issue of public record. challenge then is to catapult the issue from the back of opinion formers’ and decision makers’ minds to the It is obvious that, if we work together, we maximise forefront of their minds and, having so catapulted it, to the chance of progress. What is more, we do what the keep it there. I think that my hon. Friend the Member country expects us to do as Members of Parliament, for Chesham and Amersham and others have succeeded which is to recognise when an issue has a salience and in achieving that objective today. urgency that completely dwarf and diminish the significance of the partisan battle. People out there in the country who have an autistic child or know someone who does 11.6 am could not give a tinker’s cuss whether it is a Labour Government who agree to the passage of such a Bill, a Anne Milton (Guildford) (Con): I was always aware Conservative Administration, a hung Parliament or a of the danger that this morning’s speeches would sound grand coalition. Many of them, frankly, could not give a little more like an Oscar ceremony than anything else, a tinker’s cuss about party politics at all. Even if they and I am afraid that I will only add to that. None the do, the significance of the issue is far more important less, I say to my children and to my colleagues that when to them. one does something well, one should be proud of it. It should be used as an opportunity to understand better Mrs. Gillan: It is such a shame that my hon. Friend how one can do things better in future. I therefore want was not here for the opening speeches, because I was to associate myself with all the comments made by my able to make the point that this House has been acting hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham at its best in a cross-party way. Had he been here, he (Mrs. Gillan). This Bill has indeed shown Parliament at would have been able to hear that. That has been the its cross-party best, sharing and joining together in a special thing about all the people who have been intimately drive to improve the lives of people with autism. At a involved with this Bill and who have personally made time when people are so angry with politicians, this Bill contributions to it. is not only a huge landmark for people with autism, their families and their communities, but might be a John Bercow: I am extremely grateful to my hon. small chink of light for Parliament itself. Friend and I would have greatly enjoyed hearing her speech. I have never doubted her commitment to work I also want to pay tribute to my hon. Friend the on a cross-party basis—after all, she was the one offering Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Angela Browning), to do so. However, there are always cynics who do not who has been a voice on this matter for a long time—since necessarily think that it is a good idea. It makes sense long before I ever arrived in the House. I pay tribute to and we have benefited from it. the all-party group, the National Autistic Society and many others, including Ministers. The Government, As far as the media are concerned, and perhaps I can having originally resisted the Bill, have swung all their conclude on this point, I think it was the late Enoch efforts behind it and have been remarkably and notably Powell who said that politicians complaining about the gracious in their retreat. media are like sailors complaining about the sea—it is a completely pointless and fruitless activity. Doubtless I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to that is the case, but it is sad that when we work together Surrey county council. It is one of those councils that in a concerted, principled and effective fashion it gets everybody loves to hate, but it is cited in the Department no attention or coverage. The media are just not interested. of Health’s consultation document as an example of What a shame. They ought to be. We have done the good practice: right thing— “The County Autism Group and autism lead have developed a network of 80 ASC champions across services in all sectors in Mrs. Gillan: I said that in my speech. Surrey. These champions have six months’ training and mentoring and then help cascade this training to their team. Champions are John Bercow: My hon. Friend is saying from a sedentary supported to network and share good practice across services. position that she made all these points in her speech. I Assessment of this process showed that it had led to positive outcomes for individuals…In addition, the county group and am sure that she did, with great eloquence. I have autism lead have supported Surrey County Council and Surrey already explained why I was not here and have apologised and Borders Foundation Trust to jointly develop an ASC training for the fact. There is no harm in underlining the strength pathway with different levels of training for staff in different of opinion on this matter. services.” 561 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 562

[Anne Milton] identify? I am sure that there are data that could help local authorities, primary care trusts and the like to try The danger today is that, having highlighted the huge to make a diagnosis, and to try to identify such people. lack of services and of unmet need, we will lose the It will be tricky to do so, and real, proactive commitment small pockets—there are some—where there is good is needed, but it is important that we do so. practice and where innovative approaches are being taken. Anne Milton: The hon. Lady makes an excellent The hon. Member for Erewash (Liz Blackman), who point, and, as she rightly says, some of the groups of openly admitted a change of mind, paid significant people whom we are talking about are very hard to tribute to others, but I want to pay tribute to her for reach. That is where training and raising community graciously changing her mind and throwing her weight awareness comes in; I will mention training later. If we behind the Bill. She referred to many statistics, and I look back 20 years, we realise that there are many issues will repeat some of them because they cannot be mentioned that we, as a community and as individuals, simply were too often. There are more than half a million people not aware of then. That can change, and it is important with autism in the UK, and they struggle to gain access that it does, so that friends, neighbours, colleagues and to the services they need. Outcomes for such people are those whom people with autism meet can recognise that extremely poor: only 15 per cent. of adults with autism a person has unmet needs, and can perhaps alert such a are in full-time work, almost half still live with their person to the fact that they can present themselves to parents, and more than a third have developed serious the appropriate services to ensure that they can live mental health problems. A lack of ready access to their lives to the full. The Bill ensures that can happen. services has a huge impact, not only on them but on We have heard that only 9 per cent. of local authorities their families and carers. As many Members have said, are keeping any record on that point—only one in 10. It the parents often worry about their children’s future, would be useful if the Minister assured the House that when they will no longer be able to support them. Older there will be a particular focus on identifying those parents carry around a huge burden, worrying what will whose autism is not already known about. The danger happen to their children when they die. is that local authorities, in a rush to demonstrate that Some 70 per cent. of children with autism have one they are complying with the legislation, will pick up the additional psychiatric illness, and almost half have two group that they already know about and run with them. or more. A quarter have self-harmed or have suicidal We need that focus, and a word from the Minister on thoughts. If we look at the rise elsewhere in the number that point would be helpful. of children who self-harm, we see that the figure is likely to increase. The figures are truly shocking. If we John Bercow: To build on the point made by the hon. spill out a load of figures, there is a danger that people Member for Erewash (Liz Blackman), does my hon. will get figure-blind, and their eyes will glaze over. If we Friend the Member for Guildford (Anne Milton) recall have any members of the press still sitting in the Press that TreeHouse’s “Constructive Campaigning” parent Gallery, I ask them to take note of some of the figures support project research found that teachers and other and to take them on board. staff had not been adequately trained, or trained at all, The Bill, as amended by the Government, puts a duty and still did not recognise the condition of Asperger’s? I on the Secretary of State to introduce a strategy for am thinking of a quote from the TreeHouse research, in improving outcomes for adults with autism, accompanied which a teacher said to a parent, “I don’t believe in by statutory guidance for local authorities and NHS Asperger’s syndrome.” Of course, it is a matter not of bodies. We hope that, if the Bill is passed, it will be a belief, but of fact. catalyst for huge progress in meeting the needs of the country’s adults with autism. In many instances, the Bill as amended goes well beyond the original measure. It is Anne Milton: I thank my hon. Friend for that in that regard that the cross-party working, and the intervention. Of course, it is pretty shocking when one efforts of my hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and hears of a teacher saying that, but one will hear the Amersham and many others, have been so effective. We same story from families and charities working with, are talking about access to diagnosis, needs assessment, say, children with epilepsy. Children with epilepsy will transition planning—a crucial area, and one of many have absences, will be low academic achievers, and may areas where people may fall through the holes in the well be 12, 13, 14 or 15 before anybody realises that they net—strategic planning and support services, and local were not just staring out of the window vacantly or partnerships and co-operation. failing to pay attention, but had epilepsy. We hear that time and again. I do not want to wander too far from I should like to highlight six or seven key issues. the subject before us, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but bear When the Minister sums up, I hope she will address with me for one moment while I say that there is a need some of the issues on which there remain questions in to raise awareness within the teaching profession, and some people’s heads. On data collection and the need to many other professions where people come into contact identify people with autism, the National Autistic Society’s with children with a multitude of different needs. People comparison showing how hard-to-reach groups become in those professions should be alert to conditions such easy-to-ignore groups was quite haunting. The key point as epilepsy, and should signpost children and their is that groups of people can no longer be easy to ignore. families to possible diagnosis. However, today we are They might remain hard to reach, but we can no longer talking about autism. ignore them. As my hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Liz Blackman: Does the hon. Lady not agree that the Amersham said, “joint strategic needs assessment” is a many people who have high-functioning autism and terrible mouthful. One of these days—soon, I hope—we have never had a diagnosis will be extremely difficult to will start simplifying the language that we use in 563 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 564

Government, at all levels, so that ordinary people can The fourth aspect is community care assessments. It understand it. The joint strategic needs assessment must should go without saying that they should be person-based. include and mention the needs of people with autism. It It was a long time ago that I first heard the term would be useful if the Minister confirmed that the “holistic care” mentioned—well over 25 years. I see the statutory guidance will specify that the JSNAs should Minister nodding. We share a professional background, account for the needs of people on the autistic spectrum. and I am sure that at times she, like me, could weep at I should like to say a word about commissioning. the lack of progress. Care assessments must be person- Nowhere in the NHS or in local authorities have we centred, which means that they must be carried out by really got to grips with commissioning, because the those with the training necessary to assess the needs of starting point tends to be the services that are available. people with autism. I ask the hon. Lady to affirm her We decide where those services should be placed, not so understanding of the need for appropriate training for as to provide the very best service for specific groups, people who undertake community care assessments. but so as to serve them as best we can, or hopefully On the publication of the strategy and guidance, I serve them, at any rate. That is the wrong way round. was moderately amused to see in the National Autistic The joint strategic needs assessment will be a crucial Society’s briefing that the Department of Health had tool in commissioning the right services. One must first said that it was standard to stagger the publication of assess the needs, and then provide the services to meet strategy and guidance. I always hate it when I read that those needs. That can mean a significant change in anything is standard, or that “that’s what we always services. One of the reasons that does not happen is that do”, because an opportunity to do things differently it can be very uncomfortable for service providers, as it might be overlooked. Perhaps the Minister will explain can mean big changes; it can mean reshaping how the policy, as I may have missed something obvious. services are set up and delivered. Will she do what she can to ensure that strategy and Mrs. Gillan: I thank my hon. Friend for the contribution guidance are published together, and if that is not that she is making, from the Front Bench, on behalf of possible, will she tell us why not? the party to which she and I belong. I was struck by a In that context, it would be useful for many of the National Audit Office report in which a consultation people who will read or who are watching the debate if was carried out that referred specifically to the services the Minister gave us some idea of the dates of publication. that were available. About two thirds of respondents to We need to know that as soon as possible. We frequently a survey of local authorities and NHS bodies felt that hear from local authorities and various health agencies the services available were limited. An adult with autism that they are still waiting for the statutory guidance. who responded to the consultation said: That is terribly frustrating. Often, local authorities want “My local social services department does not provide any to get on and start fulfilling their commitments under autism-specific services, so these services are not at all flexible to new legislation, but the guidance is slow in appearing. my needs”. He was referring to supported accommodation, My hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton employment, recreational and social activities, and general mentioned silos. That is my penultimate point, and the support such as advice and advocacy. There is a great subject is a bee in my bonnet. We talk about partnership need for attention to how services are commissioned working, attend joint meetings, make joint appointments, and how we identify the needs of people with autism. and believe that in doing so, we have achieved joint working. We have ticked the box on working in partnership, Anne Milton: I thank my hon. Friend for re-emphasising but real joint working is about getting out of those silos. that important point about the gap between the group Only then can we make the difference. The silos have to of services available and the unmet need. The two are go. Government at all levels are desperately resistant to not necessarily in line with each other. If commissioning moving out of their bunkers and sharing budgets, experience is done well, what a rocky ride that can be for Government and the benefits of cost-sharing. at all levels, but we will never get commissioning right in As with commissioning, if we have our eye on the any area of local government or in the health service needs of the population for which we are trying to until we start from the needs of the population that we provide services, there should be no reason why we are trying to serve. Proper needs assessment is necessary cannot break down the walls between Departments. to build a platform on which to develop services that Will the Minister spell out the measures that her dovetail and produce the results that we want to see. Department will take to ensure that the strategy can be My hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham developed and implemented jointly with other Departments, (Mr. Bercow) referred to the training of staff. Only particularly the Department for Work and Pensions? 15 per cent. of people with autism are in full-time work, so the training of staff in Jobcentre Plus as personal advisers and disability employment advisers will be John Bercow: My hon. Friend is making an admirable crucial. That training, as we have already said, needs to speech, but in referring to the DWP she prompts me to go much wider—80 per cent. of GPs said that they highlight an issue often mentioned but as yet not resolved— needed more training and guidance. Increased awareness the off-putting complexity of the application form for of autism among accident and emergency staff and disability living allowance. Does my hon. Friend agree across the community will mean that people with autism that it would help if the Government looked at that are recognised and empowered, and have equal access again? It is true, to be fair, that the form has been and opportunities. It would be useful if the Minister substantially shortened over recent years, but I think I confirmed that professionals who have particular am right in saying—I have some personal experience—that responsibility—let us start there—for supporting adults it is still 52 or 54 pages long, and it does not lend itself with disability will get specific training to help them to speedy completion by people who are not used to support adults with autism. having to provide essay-style responses to testing questions. 565 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 566

Anne Milton: My hon. Friend makes yet another I pay tribute to the hon. Lady. She should be proud of excellent point. If I recall correctly, my hon. Friend the her achievement in introducing the Bill. Her determination Member for South-West Surrey (Mr. Hunt), who is not to drive it forward, while recognising the need for a in the Chamber today, introduced a ten-minute Bill on realistic and collaborative approach in Committee in exactly that point a couple of years ago, when he was order to obtain the ends that she seeks, greatly impressed shadow Minister for People with Disabilities. He pointed my hon. Friend the care services Minister. In addition, I out the huge complexity of some forms, which would recognise the efforts of the hon. Member for Tiverton defeat many of the brightest of us. If we assess people’s and Honiton (Angela Browning) in her tireless work to needs, and one of their needs is to access services and promote the needs of people with autism before the Bill benefits readily and easily, simplification of the forms was introduced and since, including her active participation must inevitably follow. in Committee. Finally, on the review, the Secretary of State must I have the highest regard for the hon. Member for keep the strategy under review if we are to hold the Tiverton and Honiton, because prior to entering Parliament present and future Governments to account. To review we both had a health background, and we both know the strategy, we need to monitor and we need indicators. how we have struggled to bring our knowledge to the It would be useful to know from the Minister what forefront in this place when it has not always wanted to indicators will be used to determine when a review of listen. I suppose that we now have to put Devon county the strategy is necessary, how the Department intends council on warning, as this debate has managed to do; to monitor the progress of the autism strategy, and the way in which the hon. Lady managed to put across whether a named individual within the Department of the reality of the misdiagnosis of mental health problems Health will have responsibility for the successful will never leave my mind. I hope that that goes not only implementation of the strategy at local level. I hope that for people in the House today but for health professionals the Bill will be passed today. Having made huge progress, outside. She gave an example in which she asked, “If it is crucial that all the energy and enthusiasm are not this were a cardiac condition, how would it be managed lost. What we need is real drive to make sure that, if if it were misdiagnosed?” That was absolutely accurate passed, the Bill starts to produce results at the front line. and to the point. I know that many Members from all Rather like the Oscars, thanks are due all round for parts of the House have the highest respect for her, and the cross-party working, and a cheer for the parents and after the debate I look forward to perhaps chatting to families who told together the care of their small children, her about how we can continue to work together. their teenagers, and their younger and older adult children. The Government, like the hon. Members for Chesham While we at every level of Government have moved and Amersham and for Tiverton and Honiton, are painfully slowly in developing proper services to support committed to taking action to improve services for those families, who are the unsung heroes but who are people with autism. We are determined to see true, often wrung out, exhausted and have developed their transformational change and a real improvement in own health problems, both physical and mental, as a their quality of life. Our means for achieving that is the result of their never-ending caring responsibilities. development and publication of an adult autism strategy. Whatever our party politics, whatever our background, The full publication of a consultation on the content of I have never doubted that all hon. Members came to the that strategy began in April, and that in itself indicates House to make a difference. Many of us have struggled our commitment. at times to make the difference that we thought we As Members present know well, my hon. Friend the could make, if only we found the way of doing it. We care services Minister made it clear on Second Reading often have the opportunity to help individuals with that, although we shared the principles set out in the their tax credits and their battles with the many Government Bill, we could not support it in the form it took at that agencies and with the local council, but to make a time. That is why in Committee, my hon. Friend tabled difference throughout the country is not easy. I hope the amendments that have made the Bill what it is today. that, today, Parliament has made a difference not only The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham has to the 500,000 people with autism, but to their families, eloquently made the case for this Bill, and the figures friends and carers. that she quoted are a powerful testament for the need for action in this area. 11.30 am I have no ministerial responsibility for this area of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health care, but since knowing that I would be present today (Ann Keen): I thank the hon. Member for Guildford and having been privileged to be a part of taking the (Anne Milton) for her warm words and encouragement Bill forward, I have learned a great deal. Even though and hope that, through my speech, I can address all I am a former health professional with more than her points. 28 years’ experience, I know that we can still learn a I am so pleased and indeed proud to speak to this great deal and it has been a pleasure and privilege to Bill. I sincerely apologise on behalf of the Minister of learn more on this subject. State, Department of Health, my hon. Friend the Member The National Audit Office’s recent report on services for Corby (Phil Hope), the care services Minister, who for people with autism provides further evidence of the has played such a key role in its progress. He is very needs of people with high-functioning autism and disappointed and sorry that other business prevents Asperger’s syndrome, and of the types of service and him from being here today, but I shall be sure to pass on good practice that already occur in some areas. Senior to him the very kind remarks about his commitment officials from the Department of Health, the Department that were made in all parts of the House and, in for Work and Pensions and the Department for Children, particular, by the hon. Member for Chesham and Schools and Families appeared before the Public Accounts Amersham (Mrs. Gillan). Committee earlier this week, as has been mentioned, to 567 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 568 give evidence on the NAO’s findings. The hon. Member the implementation of the autism strategy will have the for Tiverton and Honiton took that opportunity to necessary bite to drive real transformational change. press for continued action to improve services, especially The clause puts that commitment into action. It specifies on the diagnosis, assessment and understanding of autistic that the guidance is to be treated as section 7 guidance spectrum conditions, and I trust that she and other under the Local Authority Social Services Act 1970, members of that Committee were reassured that we meaning that local authorities will be required to exercise take the issue seriously not just in the Department of their social service functions in accordance with the Health, but throughout the Government. guidance. Case law has established that that means My hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Liz more than just taking account of the guidance. A local Blackman), who spoke with her usual honesty and authority that failed to comply with section 7 guidance passionate feelings on the subject, raised the issue of without a really compelling reason for doing so would how important local leadership will be to the be acting unlawfully. implementation of services, and I am pleased to say that For NHS bodies, there is no existing provision equivalent there will be representatives of the Association of Directors to section 7 of the LASS Act. In order to create the of Adult Social Services on the external strategy reference same obligation on NHS bodies to act in accordance group. with guidance issued under clause 2, clause 3 also Clause 1 places a duty on the Secretary of State to specifies that, for the purposes of that guidance, NHS prepare and publish by April 2010 a document setting bodies are to be treated as local authorities. That means out a strategy for meeting the needs of adults in England that their functions in relation to the provision of relevant with autistic spectrum conditions. By improving the services are social services functions under the provisions provision of relevant services by local authorities and of the LASS Act. That means that NHS bodies will be the NHS, the Secretary of State will be required to keep bound by the guidance to the same extent as local the autism strategy under review and will be able to authorities, which also means that the case law that has revise it. He will have a duty to consult and seek the established the status of section 7 guidance as being participation of such persons as he considers appropriate more than just advice to be taken into account will in preparing and revising the autism strategy. apply equally in relation to NHS bodies. That consultation process has already begun, so clause 1 I should add that these provisions will not apply to also contains provisions to ensure that the consultation NHS foundation trusts. Although the Secretary of State will fulfil the Secretary of State’s duty, even though it is required by clause 2 to issue guidance to NHS foundation will have not only begun but ended by the time the Bill trusts, they are not covered by clause 3 because the comes into effect. Similarly, my hon. Friend the care definition of NHS bodies set out in clause 4 does not services Minister has made it clear that our intention is include NHS foundation trusts. That means that foundation to publish the autism strategy by the end of this year. trusts will be expected to take the guidance into account Therefore, the clause also contains provisions to ensure in planning and providing services for adults with autistic that doing so fulfils the Secretary of State’s duty to spectrum conditions, but they will not have the same publish a strategy even if the Bill has not come into duty to act under it as local authorities and NHS force at the time of publication. bodies. This reflects the greater autonomy of NHS foundation trusts. Of course, publishing an autism strategy is only the beginning of the story. The hon. Member for Mid-Dorset Liz Blackman: In Committee, we had a good debate and North Poole (Annette Brooke) ended her contribution about this issue, and the Minister reassured everybody by saying: although we have packed and got the journey, that although foundation trusts do indeed have autonomy, how will it end? I hope that, with her knowledge of when PCTs were commissioning their services they still young people and children, on whom she so often acted under the guidance, which was incorporated in speaks, we will be able to complete the journey together. the commissioning process. That gives reassurance that To that end, clause 2 places a duty on the Secretary of the guidance will, to a degree, stretch into foundation State to issue guidance by 31 December 2010 to local trusts. authorities, NHS bodies and NHS foundation trusts for the purpose of securing the implementation of the Ann Keen: I thank my hon. Friend; using the knowledge autism strategy. Some Members may ask why there is that she gained from being on the Committee, she has apparently such a gap between the deadlines for the clarified that point. strategy’s publication and for issuing the guidance on its The remaining clauses deal with the matters that one implementation, and I shall return to that point later. would expect to see in any Bill: definitions, extent, Clause 2 also sets out some issues that guidance application and so on. I do not propose to go through should cover as a minimum. It requires the Secretary of them in detail, but I would just draw the House’s State to keep the guidance under review and to consult attention to the commencement arrangements in the NHS and local authorities on preparing it and, if clause 6. the Secretary of State proposes, on revising it. On the strategy itself, there are also provisions to cover the John Bercow: I certainly have no desire to strike a possibility that the consultation on the guidance may discordant note; as I said, I admire the way in which the begin before the Bill comes into effect, and to ensure Government have taken this matter forward. However, I that such a consultation fulfils the Secretary of State’s am a little concerned by the idea that whereas there is a duty under the clause. duty to act on the part of the local authority, the Clause 3 is of particular interest. On Second Reading responsibility of a foundation is merely to take something and, indeed, elsewhere, my hon. Friend the care services into account. It seems to me that it is quite easy for an Minister gave clear commitments that the guidance on organisation to say, with a nod and a wink, “I’ve taken 569 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 570

[John Bercow] sensible margin for flexibility. We are also happy to underpin our commitment by signing up to a requirement it into account, and I’m now pursuing the policy that I to consult on the strategy. want to pursue.” There is real concern out there that We are already working closely with a very wide set of taking into account must also mean translating into stakeholders. We want to hear from as many people as practice. possible whose lives have been touched by autism, whether personally or professionally. We have already benefited Ann Keen: The hon. Gentleman, whose earlier from input from an external reference group comprising contribution demonstrated so well his commitment to people with autism, family, carers and health and social the subject, raises the “nod and a wink” approach. I care professionals involved in front-line delivery of services. believe that when the Bill goes through the other place, We will continue to work very closely with the group it will be so strong that a nod and a wink will not be over the next few months to build on what it has already involved: foundation trusts will be there to deliver best done as we develop firm proposals for the final strategy. practice. We have also commissioned a team of social policy researchers to run a series of consultation events so that John Bercow: I am grateful for that, and I am reassured. we can involve many more people, especially those whose voices are less often heard. Ann Keen: As I said, I do not propose to go through Of course, the development and publication of the all the definitions in detail. [Interruption.] I think that adult autism strategy will be only the first stage in the Members are indicating that they are relieved about journey of transformation. We will not be simply putting that. However, I would like to draw the House’s attention it into the public domain and then leaving local authorities to the commencement arrangements in clause 6. and the NHS to get on with it—a worry expressed by some Members today. The key to real transformation Liz Blackman: Just for a bit of clarity, let me point will be a focus on delivering at national, regional and out that, in Committee, the Minister of State, Department local level. To support that, we will consult on and of Health, the hon. Member for Corby (Phil Hope), deliver detailed mandatory guidance to set out what the explained that this is handled through the contracting NHS and local authorities need to do to achieve the system. He said: changes that we expect to be described in the strategy. “Yes. The Bill does not apply to foundation trusts for the Again, the Government are happy to be tied into that reasons that I have just given—wider policy and so on—but if a commitment by the Bill and to commit to a clear date PCT is contracting with a foundation trust, as I said earlier, the by which the guidance will be published. obligation of the PCT as an NHS body to ensure that it is As I said earlier, I know that some might feel that the carrying out its statutory duties is, therefore, handled through the contracting process. I emphasise that the NHS foundation trusts nine months between the final publication deadline for have more autonomy in the system, which is why the Bill cannot the strategy and final publication of the supporting directly apply to them in the way that it may apply to other guidance is rather a long time, but until we have completed NHS bodies.”––[Official Report, Autism Public Bill Committee, the consultation on the strategy and are more certain 13 May 2009; c. 38.] about the exact priorities for action, we cannot start I hope that that clarifies the point. working up the guidance in detail. As we are going to place an obligation on the NHS and local authorities to Ann Keen: I thank my hon. Friend, and I hope that act in accordance with the guidance, we must allow time the hon. Member for Buckingham (John Bercow) is to consult those organisations on its content. For example, content. we need to ensure that we do not set requirements on them that are impossible for them to meet in practice. John Bercow: Doubly content. I remind the House that we have made a firm commitment that the guidance will but put on a statutory Ann Keen: We are here to please. footing for both local authorities and NHS bodies. Although it may well be possible to issue the guidance As I said, my hon. Friend the Minister of State wanted considerably earlier than the end of 2010, we have taken to be present, so he has asked me to say the words that the prudent step of ensuring that we have sufficient time he would have said had he been here. I therefore need to do the job properly. We are happy to underpin our to make some progress, if hon. Members can bear commitment to review and reissue the guidance as with me. appropriate. In consulting local authorities and health It is a further mark of the Government’s total bodies on the guidance, and on any subsequent revisions, commitment to the autism strategy, and the improvements we intend also to seek the views of other key stakeholders. that will flow from it, that we have chosen to provide for In amending the Bill, the Government have made a the Bill to come into force automatically, two months firm commitment on the headline issues that the guidance after Royal Assent is given, so no commencement order will need to cover. They include the provision of diagnostic will be needed. services, information gathering including needs assessments, I want to turn to the links between this Bill and strategic planning of services, transition planning, work existing Government policy, and how the Bill will support force training and local leadership. Those reflect the key it. I make no apology for reiterating that our commitment themes identified in the consultation, particularly the to developing and delivering that strategy is rock solid. importance of public services coming together to assess Indeed, we have already made clear our intention to the needs of people with autism and what support they publish the final strategy by the end of 2009. We are need to live independently and be included in their content to underline our commitment by setting ourselves communities. Driving a change in attitudes and culture, a statutory time scale for doing this—with, of course, a particularly among all front-line staff who come into 571 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 572 contact with people with autism, is particularly important. Housing has been mentioned in the debate, and the Of course, the list of themes is not exhaustive or exclusive. Government agree that it is an important issue for The provisions do not preclude the inclusion of other people with autism. Public service agreement 16 on issues in the guidance; they require only that those improving inclusion in society for those most excluded particular ones must be included. focuses on housing and employment. We will consider I turn to the strategy itself. As the House will know, housing in our consultation on the adult autism strategy. we are currently in the midst of a full public consultation on its content. As I mentioned, in developing the strategy Annette Brooke: I thank the Under-Secretary for we want to hear from as many people as possible. dealing with the point. Will she ensure that we take on People with autism and those who know them are the board the fact that housing is not nowadays generally real experts, and their input will be invaluable. We have controlled by local authorities? Housing associations therefore undertaken a range of different activities to and arm’s length management organisations all have a ensure that the strategy is properly informed by key part to play in providing suitable housing for young stakeholders. adults. It is important to look across the spectrum of housing that will be needed. The consultation document was developed with the help of an external reference group including adults with autism, their parents and carers, health and social Ann Keen: The hon. Lady makes a valuable point. In care professionals involved in front-line delivery and my borough—the London borough of Hounslow—we those with experience in supporting adults with ASD have an organisation called Speak Out in Hounslow into employment. We will continue to work with that and the Owl housing association, which does great group over the next few months and build on its ideas as work. We must ensure that we look across the spectrum. we develop the strategy. It is worth spending a little time considering the That is only one of the many ways in which we are thinking behind the themes and what we hope to explore engaging with stakeholders, particularly people with through the consultation. In the health theme of the autism and their families. Now that the consultation consultation, we are seeking people’s views about diagnosis has been launched we are encouraging as many people and post-diagnostic support; the importance of as possible to respond in writing, by e-mail or through understanding local populations through data collection; an online questionnaire—whichever they prefer. We meeting local need through strategic planning; ensuring would also like people to organise their own discussion that all health services are accessible to adults with groups, and we are making available a toolkit to support autism, and ensuring that people with autism get the individuals and groups to do that. right support from mental health services. Alongside the formal consultation, we are carrying Adults with autism, their families and carers often out a range of activities to help capture the views of tell us about the challenges that they face in accessing adults with autism and their carers, many of whom diagnostic and post-diagnostic support. That point has would find it difficult to respond formally to the been well made today. They can often struggle to get an consultation. Events will be taking place in each of the appropriate assessment of their support needs from a nine Government regions over the summer. In the first professional who understands what it means to be on instance, they will include one-to-one interviews and the autistic spectrum. Many people and their families small group discussions with adults with autism and tell us that they feel lonely and isolated after receiving a their families, conducted in the way that is most appropriate diagnosis and do not know to whom to turn for the to the individuals involved. There will also be interviews right support and information. with professionals working with adults with autism. We also need to tackle diagnostic overshadowing. The activities will be wide-ranging and allow participants The difficulties that a person with autism experiences to talk about the issues that are most important to with communication, together with a lack of awareness them. The findings of the interviews and discussions and understanding of their condition and needs, can will then be used to help develop engagement workshops mean that some professionals do not see further than in each of the nine regions, which will delve further into the person’s autism and thus miss underlying health the priority areas for action in the strategy and consider concerns. I mentioned previously the problem of falling possible solutions. into the gap between mental health and learning disability A number of adults with autism find it much easier services. There is also a risk of being inappropriately to communicate their views online and through e-mails. treated and supported under one of those services. We are therefore developing an online community to Training and awareness raising, which I will cover shortly, allow those who prefer to communicate in that way to is vital in ensuring that adults with autism get the right discuss their priorities for the strategy. We believe that care and support from the health service. that menu of options for involvement in the consultation There are many examples around the country of means that as many people as possible can have their good practice, whereby services identify and support say and help us to develop a strategy that works on the adults with autism in their everyday lives. For example, ground. in Northamptonshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust, The House would not expect me to pre-empt the the transition and liaison team provides a diagnostic outcome of the consultation. Nevertheless, with the service and short-term post-diagnostic support service external reference group for the strategy, which is chaired to adults with Asperger’s syndrome. It also supports by the chief executive of the National Autistic Society, those with an existing diagnosis, especially during the we have identified the priority themes for an adult difficult period of transition to adulthood. autism strategy. They are health, social inclusion, access The service focuses on interventions to reduce social to employment, choice and control, and training and isolation and mental health difficulties, and helps adults awareness. develop independent living skills and relationships. It 573 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 574

[Ann Keen] we have heard a number of concerns about the need for strong and committed local leadership to ensure that helps them access a range of appropriate supported adults with autism get the right support and access. A housing options, better social and academic support, good example is the Liverpool Asperger’s team, which and learning opportunities during transition and in is a multi-disciplinary team established in 2003 to address continued education. It helps address carers’ needs and the issue of people falling through the gaps in service supports improved employment opportunities for adults provision, which is something that we often hear about. with autism. It also supports better access to forensic The needs of many people on the spectrum are often services and post-diagnosis emotional support. That misunderstood, leaving many people vulnerable. The sort of service is a brilliant example of how local areas Liverpool team is a joint effort on the part of the can respond positively. More needs to be done to enable primary care trust and the local authority. It takes a that to happen consistently, which is why delivery and person-centred approach, provides assessments and implementation are key parts of the Government’s strategy. diagnoses, offers direct support through its managed Making reasonable adjustments in a health care setting care pathway approach and makes referrals to other can be very easy. A mother of two sons, both of whom services. have an autistic spectrum condition, has told us that her The team also works with local services, including GP is the only means of support that they have, saying: schools and colleges, mental health services and specialist “He is aware that both function better in the afternoon and so services, such as those involved in the criminal justice we are always given afternoon appointments. If possible we are system, and with those receiving support from mental given his last appointment so that he can spend longer with our health and alcohol and substance misuse services. The sons if he needs to. team also offers training and advice to other professionals It is also quieter then. He is quite happy to let my eldest son about Asperger’s syndrome, including through regular who is 21 read any books with information regarding treatment awareness-raising sessions, playing a vital role in enabling and also his notes on the screen to make sure that he is happy with good practice to cascade through the local area. what has been written. The key to getting things right for adults with autism He is also aware that our eldest is more comfortable speaking is ensuing that the strategy delivers on the ground. to some of the doctors within the practice than others and this Examples of good practice from across the country has been noted without it becoming an issue. demonstrate what works. We are keen for local agencies If there are no appointments available we can speak to any to learn from each other and to help each other improve receptionist and state that we have an arrangement with the practice and we have always been able to see someone within local services. We have to learn how to share best 24 hours. practice better and how to communicate it, whether in health or social care. There is an excellent exhibition at This goes right across the board within the practice. The asthma clinic, which usually runs on a morning, will also see our the ExCel centre today—it was also on there yesterday— son in the afternoons. about advancements in health and social care. What has I have no doubt that we would sink were it not for the been brought about through innovations in independent understanding and adjustments made by our GP and his practice. living and how people can be assisted would probably A little understanding really can go a very long way.” be beyond most people’s imagination. I commend all That is an example of the health service delivering a those involved—led by Lord Ara Darzi—in the quality quality personal service and treating those two young programme. There were many good examples that social men with the dignity that they deserve. services could also have registered with. In Greater Manchester, multi-agency autism services On the theme of social inclusion, we are interested to development groups have been set up in every local hear people’s views on how adults with autism can authority. The groups look at what can be achieved in access the appropriate support, including social support, their local area by improving current provision within to enable them to be fully included as active citizens in resources. The chairs of these groups sit on the steering our society. As active and independent members of our group for the consortium and share information about community, we all aspire to a home of our own, a social similar problems that different local authorities have life and the opportunity to pursue the things that interest come across, and any solutions that they have found. us, whether they be spending time with friends and The consortium also funds the National Autistic Society’s family, playing sport, going to the cinema or relaxing family services development project, which provides over a drink—of two units only, of course. information, advice and support to families across Greater It is only right and fair that adults with autism should Manchester. Through the work of this project, information have the opportunity to pursue the same things that about what is happening on the ground is fed back to many of us take for granted. Adults on the autistic the consortium to help to inform commissioning. The spectrum will have varying levels of need, and it is hon. Member for Guildford mentioned the importance important that they can access a range of appropriate of getting commissioning right. It appears that Greater and timely support, reflecting the complexity of the Manchester has got the best practice right in that autistic spectrum, that promotes inclusion. People’s social regard, and many of the services with which I have needs should be met through support to develop and been involved are prepared to share their knowledge of maintain their family life and relationships. They should how to achieve this. be able to access meaningful activities of their choosing The North East Autism Consortium was established during the day and evening, and have access to housing to develop a regional approach to addressing the planning that considers how the physical and sensory environment and service needs of people with autism. It is working can affect a person with autism. towards the development of a regional commissioning From what people have been telling us and from the strategy. Four autism services development groups have work of the external reference group working with the been set up to share good practice and advise on Department of Health on the development of a strategy, development. 575 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 576

We know that people with autism have particular (Mrs. Gillan) on introducing the Bill. On behalf of the problems with social communication and may need relevant families in Braintree, I also congratulate the specific support in that area. That might involve services Government on supporting such an important Bill. such as befriending, social groups or social skills training. Two weeks ago, I met a constituent with a young son, From listening to people with autism and their families, probably quite low on the autistic spectrum, who had we know that these support services can offer a vital found it difficult to get a job. I have heard what the lifeline and help to tackle social exclusion. In the National Minister has said about training to support people with Autistic Society’s “Exist” report, one parent describes a autism in getting a job, but with only 15 per cent. of monthly social group as an activity that gives her son young adults as a whole gaining access to full employment, the freedom to be himself. Such services are available in I am still not— a number of areas across the country. We applaud the work that they do in tackling isolation and promoting Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. I am confidence. reluctant to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, particularly I also pay tribute to the all-party group on autism, given the subject we are debating this Friday, but I which—along with the National Autistic Society—has would be grateful if he would now put his question. achieved great things. The chair of the group, my hon. Friend the Member for Burton (Mrs. Dean), was mentioned Mr. Newmark: I would like to finish my sentence, earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash, Mr. Deputy Speaker. My question on behalf of my who described her quietly getting on with the work at constituent is: what advice will be available to people the back of the Committee, which is typical of her. The working in Jobcentre Plus, for example, to help young group’s commitment to the Bill has been overwhelming, people like my constituent’s son gain access to a job? I and all hon. Members have recognised that. We should am still not clear about that, and we all agree that all pay tribute to the work of all the all-party groups in our constituents deserve access to full employment. Parliament, and to the all-party group on autism in particular, in the context of this Bill. Ann Keen: As I continue my speech, I will address Newham Asperger’s service is another example of the that point. I recognise that the difficulty raised by the organisations providing the services that I have described. hon. Gentleman is, sadly, a common one, but the Bill It organises two monthly social groups, which provide and the strategy are intended to help deal with it. adults with autism with an opportunity to meet other As I was saying, within the choice and control theme people, develop friendships and share experiences and of the consultation, we are seeking views on how better advice. The service also aims to reduce isolation and to support people with autism. Our vision is that adults build much-needed confidence. with autism should be given the support they need to be Access to employment is an important factor that has empowered to take control of their lives—a good sentence been mentioned by many hon. Members. A further key and good words, but how? They must be able to participate theme of the consultation is access to training and as fully as they are able to in society and to pursue the employment. Our vision is that all adults with autism lifestyles and relationships of their choosing. will have the opportunity to do work that is appropriate Our vision is that those with support needs will have to their skills and interests, and have access to the right a person-centred plan, which should be regularly reviewed level of support to meet their needs in the workplace. to enable the individual to meet their personal goals Adults with autism should be able to access skills and and objectives. Having choice and control also means education courses that help them to prepare for work. ensuring that personal budgets are accessible to adults They should also be able to access support to develop with autism; ensuring access to a proper and ongoing those skills once they are employed, so that they can transition plan for all young people; and providing the progress and achieve their full potential. It is also right support so that adults with autism can communicate important to recognise that people need support towards effectively. employment and that, for some, full employment might Much has been said, and rightly so, of training and not be what they want or are able to achieve. The key is awareness. You will have noticed, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to support each individual to achieve their potential, that a common theme and challenge faced by adults whatever that might be, and to give them choice and with autism is that those who are supposed to provide control as part of their person-centred plan. them with support and services do not always have the I am sure the House is aware that personalisation, as necessary understanding and awareness to provide the well as choice and control, are central to the current right type of support. Thus awareness raising and training direction of travel in health and social care. It will be no is the final key theme in the consultation. surprise, then, that choice and control is a key theme in A lack of awareness and understanding can affect the consultation on the autism strategy. We want to people with autism in many ways. It can affect their ensure that adults with autism can access the right quality of life, including their ability to access leisure, support to help them exercise the same choice and community and education services, as well as access to control over their lives as everyone else. Within the public transport and the ability to feel safe in their own choice and control theme of the consultation, we are community. It can affect their ability to make a positive seeking views on how people with autism can be better contribution to society when people fail to see past the supported through person-centred planning. label of autism; their ability to exercise choice and control and maximise their independence; their right to Mr. Brooks Newmark (Braintree) (Con): Before I ask freedom from discrimination or harassment, including a question on this very subject from a constituent I met equality of access to services and not being subject to a couple of weeks ago, I would like to congratulate my abuse; and their ability to secure their economic well-being hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham through employment and a range of training opportunities. 577 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 578

[Ann Keen] It is also worth mentioning the Bradley review in that context. That independent review was commissioned to Stakeholders have raised with us a key concern about examine the extent to which offenders with mental the extent to which many professionals and the wider health problems or learning disabilities could, in appropriate population understand the characteristics of autistic cases, be diverted from prison to other services, and the spectrum conditions and how that can affect behaviour. extent of the barriers to such diversions. The review has A lack of understanding can lead to unacceptable kept a broad remit and incorporated the range of mental intolerance and discrimination—and, sadly, isolation health problems and learning disabilities across the for many people. A survey by the National Autistic criminal justice system. It made recommendations to Society showed that 83 per cent. of individuals with the Government, including the organisation of effective Asperger’s syndrome felt that many of the problems liaison and diversion arrangements, and the services they faced were a direct result of others not understanding needed to support them. We will be convening a special them. As we have seen from earlier examples of good event that focuses on the criminal justice system and practice by the Liverpool Asperger team, a great deal autism as part of the programme of stakeholder can be achieved from learning from others. engagement to support the consultation on the strategy. The hon. Member for Guildford will be pleased to I believe that the autism strategy will improve the learn that I am about to mention Surrey. The county lives of people living with autism and their families autism group and local autism lead have developed a through the key priorities of health, social inclusion, network of 80 champions across services in all sectors including employment and housing, choice and control, in the county. Those champions have six months’ training and training and awareness-raising. The strategy will be and mentoring, and help to cascade that training to supported by detailed guidance to NHS bodies, NHS their teams. Champions are supported to network and foundation trusts and local authorities. share good practice across services, leading to a positive Although the autism strategy is a hugely important outcome for individuals with autism. development, we have already moved forward significantly Training and awareness is a key issue for a number of on our commitment to delivering improvements. On different professionals. For example, autism is mentioned 2 April, world autism day, the Government published in the GP curriculum statements on mental health and guidance for commissioners aimed at the NHS and children and young people. I would expect all GPs to local authorities. have a general understanding of first principles. However, the Royal College of General Practitioners recognises That sets out good practice for strategic planning of that there is a wide variation in services for children and health and care services to meet the needs of adults adults with autism across the UK. with autism. I must also highlight that the devolved Administrations are developing, or have already published, Angela Browning: We have made the point about GPs guidance, strategies and action plans to support people before. It is not that we expect them to diagnose someone; with autism. it is that they are the gatekeepers and should be able to Members have highlighted the lack of robust information make an appropriate referral, and when they make a on the number of people with autism in this country. referral, someone with the expertise needs to be available That was a theme in the recent NAO report, “Supporting at reasonable notice—it should not an appointment in a people with autism through adulthood”, and at a hearing year’s time—to make that diagnosis. I stress that point. of the Public Accounts Committee earlier this week, It is not possible to read up on the condition in a book but that problem is not confined to this country. It and become capable of diagnosing it. appears that many other countries worldwide share the Ann Keen: Sadly, that may be the hon. Lady’s personal problem. We are therefore commissioning a study on experience of cases in her constituency. I, too, recognise the prevalence of autism in adults and a public health the situation and, to be fair to the Royal College of observatory to improve further the data and knowledge General Practitioners, it also recognises it. For example, in that area and to get a clearer picture of the number of it would say that there is a lack of consistency of adults with autism in England. We believe that that will awareness of the availability not of a formal diagnostic be an important step in understanding our own population, assessment, but of a gateway, as was mentioned. and potentially make an important contribution to The royal college’s learning disabilities group is autism research internationally. particularly concerned about the lack of services for people with autism, especially those with high-functioning Mrs. Gillan: I am amazed at the response I am getting autism or Asperger’s syndrome. There is a danger that from the Minister—I am sure everybody is. She has those people can fall in a gap between the specialist been talking since half-past 11; her speech is a tour de services of mental health and learning disabilities and force, and I am most grateful for the detailed way in really struggle to find specialist support. We will be which she is responding. In fact, I thought I would give looking out for that as we analyse the results of our her a bit of a rest by making an intervention, because I consultation, due to end in September. I will be happy think she probably needs a glass of water. The prevalence to share those results with hon. Members. study has been a huge bone of contention. When my We are committed to working with professional bodies hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton to take action on training issues to address the needs of (Angela Browning) introduced her ten-minute Bill, the people with autism. That will form part of our work to Government promised that there would be a prevalence develop the strategy on adults with autism. Although study. The non-delivery of that has caused an awful lot good practice may not be consistent, there are pockets of the problems. The Minister says once again that the around the country where GPs are responding well, prevalence study is coming. We know that Christmas is as in the example that I quoted of the mother with coming, too, but does she have a firm date as to when two sons. the prevalence study will take place? 579 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 580

Ann Keen: I hope to receive guidance from my officials responsibility for delivery for senior managers across on that before I finish my speech, because I would like children, adult, health and social care services and for to be able to give the hon. Lady a satisfactory answer, lead members. That approach includes Connexions; given her gracious comments in her intervention. I information, advice and guidance services; youth services; certainly take her point on board, and I offer an leisure services; housing; support employment; and local acknowledgement to the hon. Member for Tiverton and colleges. That is because of the need to reflect the broad Honiton, too, on that matter. base that transition covers. Let me now say a little more about the issue of It is important not to focus on collecting data on the information, as it is crucial to the identification of need number of transition plans completed—that is a statutory and the planning and commissioning of services. We requirement for all with a statement of SEN. Rather, it will address issues relating to the collection of data on is better to focus on improvement in service delivery adults with autism by engaging with local communities, and clearer engagement with all disabled young people voluntary sector experts and carers to work out how to in order to allow them to contribute what they want to overcome existing problems in collecting information do as adults. Such an approach will maximise their locally. We will develop proposals through the strategy economic situation, their health and their well-being. to enable every locality to collect good data about the Direct grants are available for local areas that are needs of people with autism living in the area. The joint performing well during the transition period. Regional strategic needs assessments are a key mechanism for adviser support will be focused on those with furthest to commissioners to understand the needs of local people. travel to reach adequate standards of transition support, The work we are taking forward this year, including and regional advisers will provide networking support publishing guidance and sharing good practice on strategic for all local areas, with a particular focus on the needs assessments, will help to improve the information local areas that are not receiving support in the two local services can access to inform commissioning decisions. categories above. My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth, North The all-party group on autism’s latest report, published (Sarah McCarthy-Fry) was present at the start of the last week, fits well with the existing research on young debate. She was working on children with autism and people with autism and also with the larger body of the transition to adult services before she took up her research on disabled young people and transition. It new ministerial post at the Treasury. Supporting children highlights some key features of what should be available and young people with autism is an important part of in good transition support, and I can confirm that those the work this Government are engaged in through the are all issues that the Department of Health’s forthcoming “Aiming High for Disabled Children” programme. research study on autism and transition will explore. In Transition—supporting young people as they move into the research study we plan to draw on information from adulthood—is perhaps the area of greatest interest and our current transition study “Models of multi-agency concern. The report, “AimingHigh for Disabled Children: services for transition to adult services for disabled Better support for families”, recognised that transition young people and those with complex health needs: provision for young people was inconsistent. That is impact and costs”. That study is led by the multidisciplinary why we established the £19 million transition support children and families team at the university of York and programme with the aim of addressing that inconsistency aims to support the delivery of the national service and ensuring that by 2011 every area is at least meeting framework for children, young people and maternity minimum standards. Arrangements are in place to achieve services. that. The Council for Disabled Children sent all local A key question is what support those services provide areas a self-evaluation questionnaire in 2008. There for all young people with autism and not just those with was a 99 per cent. response rate, enabling the CDC to learning disabilities, and what the young people’s and provide authoritative advice to Government on the their parents’ experiences can tell us about what is support needs of local areas. working well and what is not. I expect that the Department The Department of Health and the Department for of Health study will begin this year—on 1 November—and Children, Schools and Families, working with the CDC end in 2012, and there will be interim reports of findings and regional support agencies, agreed three offers of during that time. Owing to procurement rules relating support to local areas: offer one related to recognising to confidentiality, I am sorry that I am unable to give those working beyond minimum standards; offer two further details now, but as soon as it is possible to do so, was in respect of those just meeting minimum standards; we will provide further information. and offer three related to those not meeting minimum The all-party group report also raises the issue of standards. autism and higher education. The current Department There are stretching key performance indicators to of Health transition study that is looking at disabled ensure progress towards the 2011 target. The aim is to young people of transition age considers young people improve local services better to meet the needs of their with degenerative conditions. From the experience of disabled young people. Support to local areas is available that study, we are aware that a lack of support from any from regional support agencies and centrally from the services for young people going on to higher education CDC, working as the national transition support team. is a problem. The overall objective is to improve support and choices as young people plan and prepare for what they will do Mr. Michael Mates (East Hampshire) (Con): May I as adults. congratulate the hon. Lady unreservedly on the way in By improving local services, we can ensure that the which she has been dealing with her speech on this Bill right structures are in place to support young people. for one hour now, largely uninterrupted, on a subject The guidance issued since “Aiming High” advocates a that she has admitted is not hers? May I remind her, strategic transition protocol; multi-agency sign-up; and too, that another of her colleagues is equally eager to 581 Autism Bill19 JUNE 2009 Autism Bill 582

[Mr. Michael Mates] this year setting out what a good JSNA looks like to help assessors to identify the needs of people such as show that he cares about a small minority whose needs those with autism, who may be at risk of falling through are just as great as those of the minority we have been the net. talking about? I am a little alarmed by the large number Next, I can confirm that professionals who have of sheets of paper still in her hand. Am I the only one in particular responsibility for supporting people with autism, the House who thinks that she may be being instructed whether in social care, employment support or other to make a speech of inordinate length, even though this areas, will receive appropriate training. I know that that has all been agreed three hours ago? was an issue of particular concern at Monday’s Public Accounts Committee hearing, especially with regard Ann Keen: Those are most ungracious remarks. Hon. to employment advisers. I can assure the House that Members have asked me some very serious questions, the Department for Work and Pensions will review and I have endeavoured to answer them in full, as this the content of autism-specific training materials for subject deserves. The hon. Members for Chesham and their staff. Amersham and for Tiverton and Honiton have had I was asked for assurance that assessments of the very little time to discuss this important issue in the needs of people with autism will be person-centred and House, and if the right hon. Gentleman is disturbed by carried out by professionals with appropriate training. that, I suggest that he takes another look at the values Yes, assessments must be person-centred—that is the and priorities that we profess to have in this place. I essence of policy and practice. I have already made make no apology for continuing. that clear. From the study, we are aware that a lack of support On the question of the timing of the publications of from any services for young people going on to higher the strategy and consequential guidance, I understand education is a problem. That may be linked to a lack of the concerns that the hon. Lady and others have articulated. expectation that that is attainable, so it will be important I am happy to reiterate that our intention is to make the to look at that in our research. I also draw the House’s delay between the publication of the strategy and the attention to the fact that transition arrangements are guidance as short as possible, but we cannot begin to specifically mentioned in clause 2 as one of the topics develop guidance to deliver the strategy until the content that must be included in the guidance that we will be of that strategy is finalised. We cannot publish the issuing to support implementation of the autism strategy. guidance without a full consultation with all stakeholders, There can be no clearer demonstration of the importance particularly those bodies that will have a duty to act which we attach to this issue. under the guidance. It is our commitment that we will I will now take a few moments to address specific consult all stakeholders on the guidance and not just points that the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham local authorities and NHS bodies. made in her speech. In so doing, I am conscious that I On the question of evaluating delivery of the strategy may be guilty of repeating myself a little, but I want to and ensuring a review, it is a little too early to say what ensure that I do her the courtesy of specifically addressing indicators would trigger a review, but in developing the her concerns. strategy we will work closely with stakeholders to develop First, the hon. Lady asked for reassurance that proactive arrangements for local, regional and national monitoring measures to identify people with Asperger’s syndrome of the delivery of key actions and will set in place and high-functioning autism will be put into place and arrangements for reporting and evaluation. that these measures will not be reliant purely on making The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham asked better use of existing data. I should like to assure her about a named individual within the Department of that we will indeed take such proactive measures and Health who would be responsible for the success or will explore during our consultation period the best way failure of the strategy. I emphasise that we believe that to do that. In addition, we are already undertaking the key to successful delivery is leadership at all levels work to support local services to improve identification from Ministers to the front line. We have a specialist of people who need more support. We are commissioning external adviser on autism to support the development a new public health observatory for learning disabilities, of the strategy. Once we have launched the strategy, we which will also be tasked with addressing data for all could consider whether there is a case for a national people with autism. leadership role to steer delivery. Secondly, the hon. Lady asked me to confirm that the Mrs. Gillan: I can see that the Minister is getting to emphasis will be on identifying people who are not the end of her great sheaf of papers and I thank her for already known to services and people with Asperger’s specifically addressing the points that I have made. I syndrome. I am very happy to give her that confirmation. cannot stress too strongly the need to have a clearly We want to get good data on the whole population of identified position within the Department, as that would people with autistic spectrum conditions. I am also very anchor the policy on this area firmly within the Department. happy to confirm that the definition of people on the I make that request again. autism spectrum does indeed specifically include those who do not have a learning disability and who are often Ann Keen: I would not have expected anything less categorised as “high functioning”, and people with from the hon. Lady. Perhaps that could be discussed Asperger’s syndrome. with the Minister responsible for these matters during The hon. Lady also asked about strategic planning the Bill’s passage in the other place. and joint strategic needs assessments. I have already On the issue of joint working across relevant answered her concerns in my earlier comments, but to Departments, I am happy to confirm that, although my reiterate, we expect that those will address the needs of Department is in the lead on this matter, it is a cross- people with autism. We will publish good practice guidance Government piece of work. We have a steering group 583 Autism Bill 19 JUNE 2009 584 for developing the strategy which includes representation Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of from all relevant Departments including the Department Treatment) Bill for Children, Schools and Families, the Department for Work and Pensions and the Office for Disability Issues, Second Reading and we are also working closely with Cabinet Office and the Department for Communities and Local Government. 12.38 pm I can confirm, as the hon. Lady asked me to, that we Mr. Michael Mates (East Hampshire) (Con): I beg to will ensure that the delivery plan for the strategy is move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. robust and practical. We will assess the impact of the The past three hours have seen the House of Commons proposals and the benefits, weighing up the evidence in at its very best. All parties have been striving to improve a systematic manner. We will be able to draw on the the condition of a minority whose conditions need work of the NAO to develop our analysis. improving. I wonder whether it is too much to ask that I am delighted to be supporting the Bill. I am delighted that spirit continues for the next hour or so and that the to have been able not just to make my own contribution minority whom my Bill addresses will be treated in the but to make the important contribution that the Minister same generous spirit by this Government. of State, Department of Health, my hon. Friend the I do not think that I have to, but I declare an interest Member for Corby, would have liked to make had he in that I am in receipt of an armed forces pension, been able to be here today. We can confirm that the Bill which would not be affected in any way by the Bill. I is in a form that the Government can wholeheartedly also want to say that my wife Christine was a war support as it continues its journey through Parliament. widow until we married, but she will in no way be We have made a difference in this Parliament. The hon. affected by the Bill. It is proper, in this age of openness, Lady has made a huge contribution, along with her to ensure that one does not omit anything. colleagues but, of course, as we all recognise, it is the This is the second time I have introduced a Bill to families and the people with autism who have made real correct one particularly odious anomaly in the pension progress. I hope that the House will give the Bill its system for service widows, but it is not the first time I Third Reading today and that the other place will have tried to put right the myriad problems that have ensure that it becomes an Act. arisen with the forces pension system as a result of the Question put and agreed to. many changes that have been made down the years. In Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. 1989, the mere threat of a Bill promoted by me helped to persuade my noble Friend Lady Thatcher to agree to put right an unfairness in the treatment of 54,000 pre-1973 war widows. The change that I seek to make today is far more modest in terms of the number of widows affected and the likely cost. There will also, of course, be far fewer eligible recipients today than there were in 1989 because of the passage of time. Through the Bill, I seek to end the unfairness whereby widows of those who retired before 31 March 1973, more than 36 years ago, receive a pension that is one third of their late husband’s pension, while the widows of servicemen who retired on or after that date receive a pension equal to half their late husband’s pension. I am grateful to the Forces Pension Society for providing me with an example, which, sadly, the Ministry of Defence declined to do. The widow of an Army captain who joined aged 21 in 1938, and who retired at 55, as they do, on 1 April 1972, with 34 years’ service would be entitled to a pension of one third of his pay then, amounting to some £5,600 today. However, if that Army captain had joined aged 21 in April 1973 and retired aged 55 in April 2007, his widow would be entitled to half his pension. Given the same rate, that would be just over £11,000. Both widows would have the same sort of household expenditure. One would have had a husband who fought for his country in the second world war, but would receive only a one-third pension; the other would have had a husband who served later and who had probably never gone to war, and she would receive one half of her husband’s pension. That difference cannot be dismissed as some technical anomaly resulting from improvements to the armed forces pension scheme. It is a gross injustice that should have been put right long ago. The purpose of the Bill is to enable the Government to put right that injustice, but the Bill would do so in a very particular way. 585 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 586 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill [Mr. Michael Mates] The retrospection rule was also broken, in the case of the armed forces, in 1963 when the then Prime Minister I make no secret of the fact that the Bill is worded as decided that the pensions of pre-1958 war widows it is because of the rules of the House. As a Back should be calculated on a more favourable basis, following Bencher, I cannot introduce a Bill that would increase a recommendation from an independent committee. public spending without obtaining a money resolution. The Bill is simply part two of that attempt to catch up My approach has therefore been to propose a Bill that with past unfairness. enables pensions made before and after 31 March 1973 Ministers have, secondly, argued that improvements to be paid on the same basis. Before the Under-Secretary to public service pension schemes would be unaffordable suggests that this is a secret plan for Tory “cuts”—I am if they were retrospective. The MOD expressed this sure he would not do so—I should make it clear that I point of view in a memo to the Defence Committee, in am not seeking to reduce anyone’s pension, only to which it stated: increase it. “Improvements to pension schemes are not applied retrospectively Any suggestion for improvements to the armed forces as to do otherwise would make any worthwhile improvements pension scheme always runs up against questions of unaffordable”. cost. In evidence to the Defence Committee in 2002, the But my Bill is not proposing that all improvements Ministry of Defence said that on the basis of a “broad should be retrospective. On the contrary, I am saying actuarial assumption”—those were its words—the cost that the widows of service personnel are a special case. of raising a one-third pension to a one-half pension People who join the armed forces risk their lives for would be roughly £25 million to £30 million a year. Of their country in a way that no other group of public course, that cost is falling all the time as widows pass sector workers do. on. Furthermore, the Ministry of Defence figure is a It is hardly credible for Ministers to say that raising gross estimate. Part of the expense would probably be the one-third pensions to one half for pre-1973 widows recouped through higher tax receipts and less spent in is unaffordable. The Government admitted to the Defence benefit payments, but the moral argument is more important Committee in 2002 that they did not know how many to me than the cost. such pensioners there were. I have tabled several questions I hope that I will be proved wrong, but I fear that over the years and have received the same response. The when the Minister replies to the debate, he will make Government are unable to tell us how many widows much the same arguments that a former Minister, the there are whose husbands retired pre-1973, so suggesting hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg), made when that the cost would be up to £30 million a year has no my previous Bill was debated. In case he does, let us credibility because no one can back it up. examine each of them, the first of which relates to Quoting sensational figures for the cost of some retrospection. Whenever a legacy issue relating to the other retrospective changes, as the Minister did last armed forces pension scheme is raised, Ministers say year, is all very well but it avoids serious discussion of that Governments have always made improvements to the plight of elderly widows on very low incomes who public service pension schemes on the basis that they are now in the autumn of their lives. These are women are not retrospective. They say that to single out the who have been widows for at least 36 years. We should pre-1973 widows would be to break that fundamental be focusing on their situation and not on far-fetched rule. The difficulty with that argument is that the so-called arguments about cost. “no retrospection” rule has been broken before. As I The final argument that Ministers have made is related have said, in 1989, the Government made an index-linked to the last one. It is said that it would be unfair to single payment to pre-1973 war widows as a result of a cross-party out one section of public sector pensioners for campaign that culminated in my introducing a Bill on improvements in their pension because that would the subject. discriminate against other public sector pensioners. I There have been more recent changes, too. Indeed, in regard this argument as absurd. Public sector pension a debate on my previous Bill, the hon. Member for schemes are not all identical. They reflect the nature of Halton made the argument for no retrospection, but the occupation, including the degree of risk involved in promptly discussed what he called the “change of policy” day-to-day employment. The armed forces are in a in 2000, which was retrospective in its effect. The changes different position from other public sector employees in made in 2000 meant that the widows and widowers of both their conditions of work and the degree of risk spouses who died in connection with service life could involved. still receive a pension for life after remarriage or when There is an important but small additional difference cohabitating with someone else. between the armed forces pension scheme and the others. Members of the armed forces pension scheme are not The Minister might well say that that was not represented on the pension scheme by trustees or other retrospective because it applied only from that date independent persons. Service personnel are entirely reliant onwards, but that is not the whole of the Government’s on the Ministry of Defence to look after their interests. retrospection argument. They also say that pre-1973 When the MOD fails to do that, as in this case, Parliament widows should not benefit from an improvement to the must step in. Sometimes in politics we are called upon AFPS because their spouses did not contribute towards to speak up for a group of people who do not have a the improved pension. But the Government chose to powerful voice, people who cannot easily make their ignore that point when they decided that what the case in the public arena. This is one example. It follows Minister last year—rightly in my view—called the example that we have been debating in such a “a very special group of war widows”—[Official Report, 1 February constructive fashion for the past three hours. 2008; Vol. 471, c. 629.] The widows who are trying eke out their existence in should benefit from a retrospective change in the pension retirement on one third of their late husband’s pension scheme in respect of remarriage. are a diminishing number as nature takes its toll. The 587 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 588 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill Minister has the chance to correct an unfairness and do extended to people who had already left the services, the right thing by these widows, whose husbands did so and my right hon. Friend’s Bill is chiefly aimed at that much for this country and its freedom. I urge him do so, group. If the retrospective changes that he seeks were and I ask the House to support the Bill. made, the large number of voluntary buy-ins and their extra contributions would, presumably, have to be taken into account. How many people might that involve, and 12.48 pm what is the value of their voluntary contributions? Dr. Andrew Murrison (Westbury) (Con): I congratulate I acknowledge that change can sometimes be achieved my right hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire without risking meltdown in the public finances. In (Mr. Mates) on bringing his Bill to the House and on doing so, I note the amendments in 2000 for widows the manner in which he presented it. It is a cause for and widowers whose spouses died as a result of their which he has campaigned tirelessly, and I pay tribute to service, and they may now retain their pensions on him for his perseverance. remarriage. The provision was extended to all widows I declare an interest as a service pensioner, a distinction under the terms of the armed forces pension scheme that I share with my right hon. Friend. Although our 2005, although not to those whose spouses died prior to service did not overlap, I believe we served for about the transfer to the new pension scheme—an apparent anomaly same length of time and retired in the same rank. It is that was brought to my attention by a service widow more than a year since the Bill was debated in the who came to see me recently, and about which I have House, a period in which our armed forces have continued written to the Minister. Given that, evidently, change is to make us proud, whatever position we have taken on possible, I look forward to hearing what plans the the Government’s foreign policy. Much has been spoken Minister has for further improvements to the armed of the military covenant since 2003. The men and forces pension scheme. women of our armed forces have every right to expect Government to keep their side of the bargain in relation to the military covenant. The deal includes the proper 12.53 pm recognition of the crucial role and sacrifice of Annette Brooke (Mid-Dorset and North Poole) (LD): dependants—a fact that, I think, is acknowledged by all I shall be very brief in light of the time that is left. I parts of the House. congratulate the right hon. Member for East Hampshire The Bill was last debated on 1 February 2008 and my (Mr. Mates) not only on introducing the Bill, but on his right hon. Friend has given the background to it. We long-standing work on the issue—work that I had heard have heard that, prior to 1973, the widow of a retired of before I entered Parliament. serviceman was entitled to a pension equal to one third We support the Bill, because it removes the use of that of their spouse. In 1973, the armed forces pension arbitrary dates as a means of deciding financial support scheme was improved. Service widows’ pensions were for the individuals whom we are considering. We firmly upgraded to half the spousal rate on that part of the believe that we need to recognise the value and contribution pension earned by service after 31 March 1973. The that forces families make, and we believe that a difference between one third and half in respect of Government’s commitment to the military covenant widows constitutes one of the armed forces pension should never be called into question. We welcome the scheme’s legacy issues to which we can add others, such Bill also as a step towards resolving many outstanding as pension troughs, post-retirement marriage widows’ issues that service personnel feel need to be addressed, pensions, the pre-2005 non-attributable widows’ pension, and we would like to be swiftly implemented, because— Gurkha pensions and a number of others on which the obviously and as had been said already—fewer forces Forces Pension Society briefs so admirably. widows are likely to see the benefit if time goes on and This issue has, quite rightly, generated considerable on before the change is made. interest among the public, and I notice that the Bill has cross-party support. In February last year, the Minister’s predecessor estimated the cost of upgrading all pre-1973 12.54 pm widows’ pensions to the half rate to be £30 million The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence pounds. Will the Minister today tell us the updated (Mr. Kevan Jones): I congratulate the right hon. Member figure and how many widows would benefit from the for East Hampshire (Mr. Mates) on introducing this changes that my right hon. Friend seeks? It is only fair Bill. His success in the ballot suggests that he has the to say that it has been the policy of successive Governments same lucky touch that I had. His Bill calls for the equal to resist retrospective changes to existing pension schemes treatment of pension provision for forces widows. He on the ground that to do otherwise would invite has clearly followed the usual advice to keep it as simple consequential and unaffordable public sector demands. as possible to ensure that people could not fillet it when I have no doubt that the Minister will cover some of it came before the House. those points in his remarks. A similar Bill was introduced in December 2007, with When the Bill was last before the House, the then its Second Reading taking place on 1 February 2008, Minister estimated that the wider cost implications when the debate was adjourned. The Bill was twice might total £3 billion. Is that still the Ministry of rescheduled, for 22 February and 17 October, but Defence’s estimate, and how was that calculation arrived unfortunately for the right hon. Gentleman, it was not at? Members will no doubt be aware of the provision in reached. The main proposals in the Bill were also extensively the amendments of 31 March 1973, which enabled debated during the passage of the Pensions Act 1995. I members of the armed forces still serving on that date pay tribute to the support that the right hon. Gentleman to buy in their prior service to the half-rate scheme. has given to members of our armed forces, not only in Apparently, it was a popular option, but it was not promoting this Bill but generally over many years. 589 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 590 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill [Mr. Kevan Jones] 31 August 1950 were entitled to, subject to stringent conditions. That was the first time that it had been As Minister for veterans, I always find it a great ensured that families and widows were taken into privilege to meet veterans and widows. Those widows consideration. It was a different time, and people did are very varied. Some are very elderly, but there are now not have the access to pension support that we do today. some who are very young as a result of the conflict in That first scheme created a category of people called Afghanistan. Last Friday, one young widow, Victoria class 1, who were considered for a pension when death Bateman, convinced me and the hon. Member for occurred during or after service. The pensions were at a Colchester (Bob Russell), foolishly, to do a parachute flat rate according to rank and did not vary by length of jump with her to raise money for the Parachute Regiment service as they do today. The rate was doubled if the charities. She is a young lady of 24, which demonstrates death was accepted as having been due to service. That the differences that exist, which are also, of course, is very different from today’s scheme, in which both reflected in our veterans. There are our second world length of service and rank are considered. veterans and the two remaining first world war veterans, The scheme was quite harsh in a lot of ways, because but also the younger veterans that we have today. it was an either-or scheme. No widow could qualify for This Government have a proud record in supporting both a pension from the Ministry of Defence on grounds veterans and armed forces widows. To their credit, they that their husband’s death was due to service—that was introduced the post of Minister for veterans—a job that called a “special” pension—and one for other related I am very pleased and proud to do—to recognise the service, which was called an “ordinary” pension. A special debt that we owe to veterans in society. The widow qualified for state widow’s benefits only subject success of the veterans badge is shown by the fact that to stringent conditions, and only if her husband’s death more than 715,000 individuals have applied for it and was not due to service. The tests that were set, not just are wearing it with pride. I hope that all right hon. and by the MOD but by the broader welfare service, were hon. Members will participate in armed forces day on therefore harsh. The state benefit was only 10 shillings a 27 June, and the lead-up to it, not only to say thank you week. For older Members, let me say that that is 50p in to today’s servicemen and women but to support and new money. The special pension for death due to service recognise our debt of honour to our veterans from was more beneficial. former conflicts. The widow of a man who had held the rank of As the right hon. Gentleman intimated, the Bill does warrant officer class 1 but did not serve after 31 August not only deal with retrospection in benefits paid to 1950 was entitled to the special pension only if his death widows; it has an impact just on that scheme, but on was due to service, which created a class of pensionless other schemes involving the Ministry of Defence and widows. That demonstrates that, even in the early days other public services. As he said, when someone joins a of developing armed forces pensions, not all widows pension scheme, the terms and conditions under which were covered. The issue that comes back time and again they do so are clearly laid out, and it has been the policy in the context not only of armed forces pensions, but of of successive Governments that retrospective benefits other pension provision, is that when we move dates or are not paid in the MOD pension scheme or in other change benefits, some people lose out. schemes. As he rightly said, the issue to consider is affordability. This Government have made only one Mr. Simon Burns (West Chelmsford) (Con): So that exception to that rule, to which I shall refer later. It we can put into perspective the impact of the pension rightly applied to a specific group of defined widows. on recipients at that time, can the Under-Secretary tell me what the state pension was? Mr. Mates: So does this. Mr. Jones: As usual, the hon. Gentleman makes a Mr. Jones: But the numbers involved are different, useful intervention. If he uses the great services of the and I shall certainly cover that matter later. Library, he will find the information, but I do not have We need to deal with the principle of retrospection, the answer at the moment. The key point is that whenever and it is important to put the Bill and the matter of a new pension is introduced, there are always winners pension provision in historical context. Over time, the and losers. That happens today, too, and I will say more pensions of armed forces and other public sector workers about that later. have been changed and amended. Quite rightly, successive There were stringent conditions relating not only to Governments have tried to improve the benefits of the husband’s length of service, but to age, marriage those schemes. Unfortunately, we are now perhaps entering and even the age difference between the man and the a period in which they will not be enhanced, because in woman. The system was far from simple. The main some cases affordability will be limited. We cannot requirement was that the marriage took place before ignore the cost to the Exchequer of the armed forces retirement or discharge. The resultant pension was awarded pension scheme or any other scheme. subject to a means test. As the hon. Member for West There has been a trend of improvement, and successive Chelmsford (Mr. Burns) suggested, the state pension Governments of different political persuasions have was taken into account. introduced changes. The original armed forces pension Until 1939, for the RAF,both types of pension—special goes back to 1831. I was going to look up the 1831 Act and ordinary—were paid out of the MoD vote. However, to compare it with today’s arrangements and see how the responsibility for funding a pension for death due to things have changed, but I think that would try the service in the case of those who served after 3 September House’s patience a bit. The forces family pension scheme 1939 was then assumed by the Ministry of Pensions, was introduced in 1952, and it set out what widows of which would be the Department for Work and Pensions RAF officers and warrant officers who had served after today. The pension was called a war award. As has been 591 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 592 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill said, where the money comes from is important. It is sergeant; 27 years for a sergeant; and 32 years for a Government money, but we must ensure that there are corporal or below. That created a second category of not burdensome pressures, not only on the general pensionless widows, because the husband would be Exchequer but on the defence budget . Even back then, receiving a pension regardless of rank if he had completed there were competing demands for funds. 22 years’ service after 19 December 1945, but only if he The rate of pensions was not altered until 1950, but had completed a longer term than that required by the increases were awarded, with other service pensions, widows regulations. Again, the system changed, with under legislation in 1944 and 1947. Improvements in the consequence that widows whose husbands did not benefits were considered after the post-war pay and meet the new criteria did not receive a pension. pensions review and resulted in a new benefit called The legislation covering rates has also changed over the family pension scheme, which was introduced by time. The ordinary pension was paid at a flat rate Command Paper 8741, payable from 1 December 1952. according to rank, with variations relating to length of It relates to those who served in the armed services after service for widows of men below the rank of WO1. The 31 August 1950. flat rates attracted increases under subsequent measures It is interesting to note that the then Government to increase pensions, and they formed the basis of what considered whether improved family schemes should be was called the minimum rate, for which any widow financed by a contribution from the serviceman. I think whose husband had retired or been discharged before that the right hon. Member for East Hampshire referred 31 March 1973 could qualify, where the benefits to to that. We must remember that the schemes that we are which they were entitled under other provisions were considering are not funded. The individuals do not smaller. make contributions, although I accept that under the The introduction of the modified pension was necessary current scheme, people’s pay awards are taken into because it became obvious that a widow qualifying for consideration as an abatement, which sometimes causes an ordinary pension plus state pension benefits, which concern and resentment in parts of the armed forces. It had by then improved, could be financially better off is sometimes difficult to explain the figures when calculating than a widow of a man whose death was due to service, wage awards. but who was receiving only the war award, as it was still It was decided in 1950 that the non-contributory known. Modified pensions were approved for war award scheme should continue because applying a contributory widows who otherwise qualified for an ordinary pension. scheme to the services presented too many difficulties. Again, there was a flat rate by rank, which was equal to The right hon. Gentleman said that servicemen and approximately half the ordinary pension for officers, to women are a unique group, and I agree. However, there two thirds of the pension for those at the rank of WO1 is some crossover with the police and fire service. Again, and to the special rates for lower ranks. Those pensions their schemes are non-contributory and those individuals also qualified for the increase in benefits. put their lives at risk, but I accept that the armed forces are unique, and there is nothing comparable that we The war award benefits paid by the then Department could consider. However, anyone who is involved in of Health and Social Security were related to rank. local government will know that those two schemes, There was no minimum length of service required, and which are both unfunded, are under a lot of pressure. the date of marriage was not a barrier if death occurred after 3 September 1939. Some would argue that that The main changes to the scheme were introduced for illustrates two systems working side by side, possibly those who served after 31 August 1950. The new scheme resulting in unfairness because some people qualified again demonstrated that pensions policy evolves, with while others did not. Perhaps this demonstrates the the introduction of new measures, which were not long history of unfairness that has built up in the retrospective, including the abolition of some of the system over many years. restrictive conditions of the former scheme. The pension for widows of men below the rank of WO2 who had In 1958, the Grigg committee’s recommendations served after 31 August 1950 also qualified, subject to were accepted by the Government and were introduced length of service. Again, we get a sense of dates being and payable from 1 April 1959 for widows of men who introduced that improved benefits, but those benefits had died after 4 November 1958, regardless of when were not made retrospective. their service ended. However, the changes did not benefit Payments of a reduced pension called a modified the widows of men below the rank of warrant officer pension—this is where the length of service and other who were discharged before 31 August 1950, or the conditions were satisfied—were made from MOD votes widows of men discharged after that date who had died to widows who qualified for the war award from the before the introduction of the changes of 5 November then Department of Health and Social Security. Another 1958 and who had not previously qualified. Again, this important change was that the conditions requiring is a change that some would argue disadvantaged certain marriage to have taken place before retirement or discharge individuals. were relaxed, only to recognise the re-employment service The revised provisions at that stage gave widows an given during 1939 to 1940, so that if a serviceman ordinary pension of a third of their husband’s original qualified for a reassessed pension and his date of marriage retirement pay or pension, or a third of the invaliding preceded the date of the completion of his re-employment, pension for which he would have been eligible if he had his widow could be considered for a pension. died while serving. The modified pension, where death The length-of-service conditions were also changed. was due to service, was set at half the ordinary rate. In particular, the length-of-service conditions for the Widows’ pension attracted the benefit of an increased payment of a forces pension to a widow of a man measure introduced since the date of discharge or death below the rank of WO1 who died after discharge were: in service. The minimum rate could be paid as an 22 years for a man at the rank of WO2 or a flight alternative, where that was more advantageous. 593 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 594 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill [Mr. Kevan Jones] Department of Health and Social Security and those receiving a modified pension plus a war award from It soon became clear that, because the new benefits that same Department revealed a significant difference were awarded to the widows of men who had died after in supplement amounts. It was decided that the modified November 1958, regardless of their date of retirement pension within the forces family pension scheme should or discharge, anomalies were being created between the be replaced by a benefit, reduced by the rank element in flat rate and the two-thirds award given to the widows the war award, which continued the principle that the of men with exactly the same service record and dates. war award widows should be financially better off than So the widows of two men who had served for exactly widows of a serviceman of similar rank who “died the same length of time could be treated differently. normally”—well, that is what it says in my brief, but I It also became clear that many widows of men whose question whether it is possible to die normally. death was due to service were worse off financially than they would have been, had their husbands died in Mr. Mates: Natural causes. normal circumstances. Approval was given to reassess the former, and to introduce a supplementary pension Mr. Jones: Yes, “natural causes” is better terminology for the latter group. This recognised the unintended than “normal circumstances”. consequence of the changes, which had left a group of The war award widow received from 1 September widows at a disadvantage. 1971 a total income equivalent to a full forces family Under the Grigg reassessment, as it was called, all pension plus a basic war award pension, instead of a existing widows’ pensions were given the benefit of a full forces pension plus state widows pension. That is third principal ordinary pension or a sixth principal important. In the debate over war widows pension, we modified pension, instead of the pension that they were sometimes forget that people are in receipt of other receiving, where that was to their advantage. The scheme benefits from other pensions that the state provides. I was designed to help those who had been disadvantaged, think that that provides considerable help to those but the revised rates were paid from 10 December 1963, individuals. and the underlying principle of all the changes was not The basic war award in 1979 exceeded the standard one of retrospection, which is what the Bill calls for. widows pension by about £6 a week. No doubt the right The supplement was introduced to ensure that the hon. Member for East Hampshire will be able to tell me total pension income of the widow of an officer who what £6 was worth and what it could buy in 1979. The was receiving a war award would exceed the income that hon. Member for West Chelmsford is obviously too she would have received had her husband’s death not young to know what that could buy in 1979—I am been due to service by at least £26 a year. I have asked flattering him, as usual. how that amount was chosen, because a lot of these A supplementary adjustment was also necessary for figures seem arbitrary— the widows of long-serving and mainly high-ranking officers who qualified before 1954 for a war award, but Mr. Mates: Ten shillings a week. who also had as an alternative the right to an ordinary pension. The Grigg formula from the Grigg committee Mr. Jones: The hon. Gentleman has expressed it in and the improved state pension resulted in their being old money. Why it was £26 a year, I am not sure. I asked worse off financially—another example of the unintended my officials if they could dig down on that, but it has consequence of changes. Approval was given for a obviously been lost—perhaps somewhere in civil service supplement to be paid by the Ministry of Defence heaven can be found the reason why that amount was equivalent to the amount by which the forces pension arrived at. Obviously, it was seen as the right amount at would have exceeded the war award. the time. I might receive correspondence explaining why it was £26 a year from someone watching or following Dr. Murrison: There has only been one year since this debate who was involved in the issue at the time. 1939 in which our armed forces have not been engaged A constant revision and adjustment of all war award in some sort of conflict. Does the war award refer cases was the result, so each time the state benefit simply to awards that can be attributed to second world changed, changes in pension increase measures were war service, or to subsequent conflicts? If so, which introduced. It was also relevant if a child completed ones? Does the Minister mean “attributable” widows, education. Here is an example of changes to state or simply widows of servicemen who have been killed benefits impacting, because of the link, on changes to in conflict? war pensions. The supplement for widows of a warrant officer was 7 shillings a week—in old money, the right Mr. Jones: As I understand it, the scheme refers to hon. Member for East Hampshire will be pleased to both. The distinction that we made, which I shall come hear—and it was 5 shillings for other ranks. In view of to, relates to the 2000 decision, which, as the right hon. my audience in the House today, or perhaps those Member for East Hampshire said, made an exception listening to or following our debate, I should have asked for widows of those who had been killed in conflict. my officials to put all my figures into old money, as that There was rightly a retrospective element to that. The would have been more useful to them. defined nature of the individuals to which the hon. The next major change was the adjustment in 1971. It Member for Westbury (Dr. Murrison) referred covers became increasingly apparent from the size of the only a small number of people. I am trying to demonstrate supplements we were paying and the increase in state that the pension schemes have changed over time. Those benefits that the amount of modified pension needed to changes have been made by, I think, successive Governments be improved. A financial comparison between the normal of all political persuasions, to improve the lot of war widow receiving ordinary pension from the Ministry of widows, which all hon. Members would recognise are a Defence plus state widows benefit from the then special case. 595 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 596 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill The 1973 changes relate to the Bill. Following a meeting almost 300 veterans in Clumber park in the Government plan to introduce occupational pensions constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw for all employees, the half-rate benefit for widows was (John Mann). Several people raised the preserved pension also introduced for the public service. Before that, there issue, and we have to feel very sorry for some of these was no defined right to a pension. For many people in individuals who served their country. One person had many jobs who worked for quite a while and left before been in the Navy for 12 years and had got no pension accruing the necessary number of years there were no for that. Again, the changes were not retrospective in preserved pension rights. this case, and the argument put forward was—as it is There were three main benefits to the changes to again today—that retrospection would make that scheme pensions for servicemen and their widows. For half-rate unaffordable. pensions, for all service after 1 April 1973, an opportunity A group representing those who did national service was afforded for all personnel serving at that rate to buy has also been campaigning on this issue. Prior to 1975, in a pension at half rate instead of a third of the rate for there was no statutory provision requiring employers to pensionable service completed before that date, a point allow a national serviceman’s period of compulsory made by the right hon. Member for East Hampshire. A service to count towards an occupational pension. However, number of individuals took up the offer to pay the the notion of its contributing towards a state pension increased buy-in. A consequence of the Bill would be to was made on behalf of those on national service terms, discriminate against those who made that choice. and the changes brought about by the 1973 legislation The second benefit was that the rate of pension paid and the subsequent social security Act did not apply to by the MOD for the first 91 days of widowhood was to those national servicemen. be the basic daily rate of the RAF pay or, for those I make the point about preserved pensions because already retired or discharged, a rate of payment at the although the right hon. Member for East Hampshire date of death where it exceeded a half or a third of the rightly raises the injustice that war widows feel, if he entitlement. were to meet the individuals who did not get preserved pensions, he would find that they feel equally hard done The third change was a reduction of the qualifying by. Although it is hard to explain, I sometimes have to period for a pension in cases of death to five years from say to people that changing the legislation and the age of 18 for both officers and other ranks. The retrospectively paying would be unaffordable. My hon. widow’s pension was to be calculated as a proportion of Friend the Member for Morley and Rothwell (Colin a man’s invalidity entitlement at that time. The invalidity Challen) has tabled early-day motion 46, and he has pension rates were also enhanced. campaigned very hard to get recognition for this group. A special rate—an attributed pension related to rank— On 31 January 2007, the then armed forces Minister not dependent on a minimum period of service could be set out the background to this legislation and the changes paid where death in service was found to be attributable that took place in 1975, saying that there was no conceivable to service. The death gratuity was also changed. It was prospect that this or any other future Government formerly payable only to widows of those who died in would pay out to those individuals. service. It became payable in all cases. The amount was to be equal either to the terminal grant or twice the Mr. Mates: The Minister is dealing with the Bill maximum rate of retired pay for whichever rank had fairly, but it is very hard to explain these anomalies to the higher award. That was another alteration, but the certain people who are suffering from them. The scheme rules on marriage remain unaltered in the new legislation. he talked about would clearly be unaffordable, so that is Again, those benefits did not apply retrospectively; they a pragmatic reason for not implementing it. But providing applied only to widows of men who gave service after for this particular group of people is not unaffordable—or 30 March 1978, and they were additional to any entitlements is it? We do not know because he has not yet given us under Department of Health and Social Security any figures. regulations. Mr. Jones: I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will Under the state scheme at this time, the Ministry of wait with anticipation for my figures. What we cannot Defence was required to provide a pension payable do, both with this group of widows and with others, is from age 60 for those who had completed not less than treat people in isolation, because there will be consequences, five years of service. Prior to 1975, there was no right to and not just for other Departments. All I am trying to preserved pensions in any public or private pension demonstrate is that there is a group of pensioners, some schemes, and most schemes had very restrictive criteria of whom served their country with great distinction, for awarding pensions. That was not just the case for the who, through no fault of their own, have no pension Ministry of Defence. The qualification for a pension entitlement, even though they have served for a number under civil service arrangements was that an individual of years. I agree with him that it is difficult to explain all had to be over the age of 50 and to have served for 10 or this. The gentleman whom I met last week at the Bassetlaw more years. Those who left voluntarily before meeting event had served for 12 years, and some of his service those criteria lost rights to pensions. Armed forces had been in Korea. He had been in some dangerous occupational pensions were awarded only if a member situations, and he is clearly somebody who we should had completed at least 16 years of reckonable service as thank for his contribution to the security of this country. an officer or 22 years of reckonable service in other Again, I am trying to demonstrate that if the Bill were ranks, and reckonable service was paid after the age of to go through today as it stands, other groups 21 for officers and 18 for other ranks. Engagements for would have strong cases to say that we should deal shorter periods were not permissible. with them, too. I am aware that there has been a campaign on behalf I am trying to demonstrate that all changes have of individuals who served during this period but did not unintended consequences and things can be hard for get any pension. Last Saturday, I had the honour of the individuals in question. Other changes that were 597 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 598 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill [Mr. Kevan Jones] April 2005 death in service lump sums have risen to three or four times pensionable salary, depending on the introduced, with some exceptions in respect of short individual scheme. service, and air crew and others, meant that widows of The introduction of the new pension compensation men with preserved benefits entitlements would scheme in April 2005 was a considerable achievement at automatically qualify for a widow’s pension, provided the time, when other schemes in other areas were under only that the marriage took place before discharge. pressure to move away from defined benefits. That Where their husband’s death occurred before the age of debate is still going on, and I know that Conservative 60 the terminal grant is payable to the entitled widow. Front Benchers are keen to advocate examining whether Again, it is difficult to explain to some widows why cuts or changes need to be made to public sector those changes affected them. The appropriate benefits schemes. The benefits provided under the 2005 scheme are increased across all measures from the date of compare favourably with public sector schemes and discharge. those in the private sector. That reflected modern practice Some changes came in on 6 April 1978, with effect and the increase in family benefits. However, the new from the introduction of the state scheme, which provided benefits, like all the other changes that I have outlined, the widow’s pension based on the husband’s working were not retrospective, continuing the position taken by entitlement. The date of marriage provision as it applied this Government and others on changes to improve the to service awards needed amendment. Where marriage lot of our armed forces. or remarriage is after discharge or retirement, a pension May I turn to some of the more recent improvements may be awarded, but only relating to the pension or for war widows? A number of improvements have been retirement pay earned after 6 April 1979. A number of made to pensions provision for war widows in recent other benefits were paid under the scheme. years, including, as I have already mentioned, the Another scheme that changed and had consequences April 2000 changes that introduced the payment of a in different ways was the children’s pension. Such pensions pension for life for those pre-1973 widows who were in were payable to widows or whoever had care of an receipt of a pension at the time. The change was not eligible child. The benefits were provided at a flat rate made retrospectively, as with other changes that had until 1958; they were at a third of the rate payable to been brought in. widows in respect of each eligible child, with no limit on Additionally, the war widows’ special allowance, which the number of children who might benefit from that is now known as a supplementary pension, was introduced award. From 1 April 1973, the amount payable for each in April 1990 and is payable to widows who receive a child was equal to a quarter of the father’s retirement war widows’pension in respect of the death of a serviceman pay or invalid pension, subject to a restriction in respect who died or left the services before 31 March 1973. of a maximum of children. That again demonstrates Again, being the inquisitive soul that I am, I asked why that changes were introduced that would affect people, we came up with such a precise date. The person in the either in the future or retrospectively. The attributable MOD who came up with it, however, is obviously in rates were flat rates by rank; these were subject to there civil service heaven or its equivalent. being a maximum of four children. A war widows’ pension is paid only when death is due Benefits for motherless children—a horrible term—were to service. It is not normally a survivor’s benefit. The at a higher rate of two thirds of the widows benefit from purpose of the measure was to bring the overall pension 1958, and a third of the father’s pension from 1 April provision for war widows more into line with the provision 1973. Death gratuities, payable to the eligible widow at for those widows whose late spouses’ death were due to a flat rate, were introduced in 1950. These were increased service on that infamous date of 31 March 1973 and to 90 per cent. of the husband’s terminal grant from who were receiving an attributable pension under the 1958 and to 100 per cent. from April 1970, but no armed forces pension scheme. retrospection applied to that increase. The alternative, if financially beneficial, from 1 April 1973 was twice the For instance, prior to the allowance, world war two top rate of retired pay for husbands, and those payments widows whose husbands’ deaths were due to service were tax free at the time. All service pensions are taxed received only a war widows’ pension while a Falklands as earned income. The war award pension paid by the widow received both the pension and an attributable old DHSS was 50 per cent. tax free from 1 April 1976, pension under the armed forces pension scheme of and tax free from 1 April 1979. 1975. As at December 2008, more than 90 per cent. of all war widows were in receipt of the supplementary The right hon. Gentleman referred to some of the pension. recent enhancements, which continue the trend of successive Governments trying to improve the lot of our servicemen May I turn to the changes that have been made that and women and of widows. He gave the example of the apply to current members of the armed forces? There changes in 2000. Since then, benefits for widows and are two main pension schemes for current members of widowers where death was attributable to service have the armed forces. One is the armed forces pension been continued on remarriage. Since March 2003, pensions scheme of 1975, known to the Department, which loves and compensation have been made available to eligible its acronyms, as AFPS 75—anyone who deals with the unmarried partners for service deaths relating to conflict. MOD knows that people need a dictionary of acronyms I was pleased to be involved in the Bill that brought that when they become a Minister. I am still trying. I was in. It was clearly an anomaly that individuals who were speaking to Lord Robertson the other day, who said not married did not receive a pension. I recall the case that he failed in his time to get the Department to stop of a major who was killed and whose partner was not talking in acronyms. automatically entitled to a pension, so an exception had The armed forces pension scheme of 1975 was closed to be made. In September 2000, the concession was to new entrants on 6 April 2005. The armed forces extended to deaths attributable to service, and since pension scheme 2005 was then introduced on 6 April 2005. 599 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 600 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill It is important, seeing as I am an anorak about dates, to dates chosen. I will talk again to Major-General Moore- remember that whenever a pension scheme or benefit is Bick, because he is a great champion of widows and changed, there has to be a date. People will always fall armed forces pensioners in general. on one side of that line or on the other. The right hon. Member for East Hampshire raised The reserve forces pension scheme—the RFPS, as it the issue of the one-third and one-half rates, which I is known in the MOD—was also introduced on 6 April have already touched on a little. Until 1973, widows of 2005. I was pleased to be on the Committee on the Bill retired servicemen were entitled to a pension equal to a that introduced that measure, and we also changed third of the pension of their late husband. As a result of the compensation that we paid to injured service the major changes made under the Social Security personnel. The Government also provide compensation Act 1973, which improved not just armed forces pensions for individuals who are injured or disabled as a result of but other public sector pensions, and pensions more service. The current scheme for injuries received due to generally, the rate increased to one half from April 1973, service on or after 6 April 2005 is the armed forces but only for the widows of those in service from that compensation scheme, or AFCS for those in the MOD. date. As I have said, service personnel were given an The war pensions scheme, the WPS, provides no-fault opportunity to make a direct contribution and to buy in compensation to any former member of the UK armed former service at the half rate. It is predicted that it forces who was injured or disabled as a result of service would cost up to £30 million a year to change all before 6 April 2005. pre-1973 armed forces widows’ pensions to the half rate. The implications of such a change across Government I am pleased that the armed forces compensation would be considerable, because other public service scheme provides a tax-free sum for pain and suffering schemes would look into the change. according to tariffs for injury, ranging over 15 sums I sympathise with the right hon. Gentleman. I find it from £1,155 to £570,000. Hon. Members may say that frustrating that what we do in one Department has an that is not pension, but it demonstrates that we, like impact on another. We might wish to introduce changes other Governments, have made a change in how we independently for our special group of service men and compensate members of the armed forces. Again, that women, but those who advise me and others must compensation scheme is not retrospective. The right consider the implications across Government. hon. Member for East Hampshire and I have received representations from many individuals who were injured Mr. Mates: I am grateful to the Minister. I am sure he before the scheme was introduced. People might ask needs to get off his feet for a minute in the middle of why their case cannot be considered under the scheme. this marathon. The figure of £30 million that he quotes That comes back to the point that whenever one makes is the same figure as we were quoted last year, and it was a change, there will be a cut-off date. That is seen as quoted eight years ago. It must have varied because unfair for the individual who is not eligible. It is a hard there are fewer widows. Where does he get it from? How issue for any politician. I know that both he and I would many widows are there? How much would the proposed like to do the maximum possible for our servicemen and change cost per widow? If we knew that, we could women, who have fought on behalf of this country. It better judge the Minister’s allegation that it is not is not easy to explain about the arbitrary date that affordable or that it is not right. is introduced. Mr. Jones: I agree, but the issue of retrospection I have mentioned the legacy issue concerning preserved arises. I am happy to speak to him after the debate, to pensions. As I have said, my hon. Friend the Member see what we can do to establish the number of widows. I for Morley and Rothwell tabled early-day motion 46, met some actuaries last year. I foolishly asked to meet which has secured quite a lot of support. It, too, is them, strange as they are. They come equipped with about the retrospection of a scheme. It is important that charts and so on. Actuarial figures are not an exact we do not build false hopes. We should not say that a science, but they are based on the rate of people going scheme will be changed when it is clear that the change to meet their maker and other demographic changes. If will not be introduced if it is not affordable for this or the right hon. Gentleman would like to talk to me any future Government. afterwards, I will be happy to meet him. I met Major-General Moore-Bick of the Forces Pension Mr. Mates: The Minister destroys his own argument. Society and my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings If the figure is based on the course of nature, and we and Rye (Michael Jabez Foster) on 10 December last know that there are far fewer widows—they are all in year to discuss the issue raised by the Bill and the their 80s—how has it remained at £30 million for the remarriage issue—that is, whether we should change the past six years? It has been plucked out of the air by an provision that, when people remarry or cohabit, they official who thinks that he will get his Minister to quote can keep their pension. It was interesting that the one it and get away with it, but it is not satisfactory, is it? thing that they emphasised—I have sympathy with the individuals concerned—was that they did not feel that Mr. Jones: Does not the right hon. Gentleman think the scheme could be retrospective. I am a cynic at times, it would be very unfair if, for example, we were to pay as many in the Department know. I wonder whether we the increase now, but the estate of somebody who went sometimes try to look for solutions that are more difficult to meet their maker a week before or a year before did than the problems that are presented to us. If we were to not have a claim on it? It is not as simple as he suggests. make a change to allow people who remarried or cohabited Moreover, as I mentioned, members of the armed forces to retain their widow’s pension from today, would not a who served after 31 March 1973 were given the option large group of individuals who had lost that pension in to buy in their previous service. Would it not be unfair the past come forward and ask why today’s date was now to extend the enhanced benefits to widows of chosen? That shows the difficulty with the arbitrary husbands who had not taken steps to acquire that 601 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 602 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill [Mr. Kevan Jones] “With this, it will be convenient to discuss also the following: New clause 12—Post 1973 war widows— ‘Notwithstanding any financial improvement? Compensation would be difficult. other enactment, a widow awarded a Forces Family Pension Would we have to set up a scheme to pay back those (Attributable) shall receive that pension for life.’. New clause 13—Post 1973 war widows (No. 2)— ‘Notwithstanding any other enactment, who had chosen to pay the additional contribution? a widow in receipt of a Forces Family Pension (Attributable) shall Post-retirement marriage is another problematic example receive that pension for life.’. New clause 14—Post-retirement that dates back to the Social Security Act 1975, which marriage: service widow’s pension— ‘Without prejudice to benefits had implications for the AFPS and many other schemes. already available under the terms of the Armed Forces Pension The Act required occupational pension schemes to introduce Scheme for widows of members of Her Majesty’s Armed Forces with service beyond 6th April 1978, no widow of a member of a pension for widows who married their husbands after Her Majesty’s Armed Forces shall be disqualified from receiving they had retired from service. Provision was made in the a full pension under that scheme in relation to her late husband’s armed forces pension scheme in 1975 to comply with membership of Her Majesty’s Armed Forces by virtue of the fact the Act, but only widows whose husbands served after that the marriage occurred after he had retired from Her Majesty’s April 1978 benefited, and only service after that date Armed Forces, provided that that marriage was before his was used to calculate the pension. For widows, the 65th birthday and had lasted for at least three years.’.”—[Official change was not introduced until April 1989, and then Report, 4 July 1995; Vol. 263, c.248-49.] only for service from that date. The new clauses were eloquently proposed by Mrs. Ewing, The one-off extension of entitlement to all current and the Minister replying, the right hon. Member for and deferred AFPS pensioners would, the right hon. Richmond, Yorks, said: Gentleman will be pleased to hear, cost about £50 million. “New clause 11 seeks to make an exception for one group of Again, there would be a crossover effect on other public public service pensioners—the widows of ex-service personnel—by service schemes. backdating an improvement to the armed forces pension scheme The other issue that affects pensions is commonly that was made in 1973.”—[Official Report, 4 July 1995; Vol. 263, referred to as the pension for life. Following a change of c. 258.] policy in 2000, widows and widowers have been able to The provision of pensions for the widows of those who retain their pension on remarriage or cohabitation—a married after the husband had left the scheme was one point that the right hon. Gentleman made. However, of a number of major improvements to public service the change was extended only to those individuals who pension schemes made in the 1970s, but each of those had not already remarried or cohabited. The changes improvements was introduced at a fixed and current that were made in 2000 were exceptional and for a date; none would have been affordable if it had been special group of war widows, and they were not extended extended retrospectively to recognise all previous service. to the widows and widowers whose spouses had died for Sir Tim Spicer, the MP for Dorset, I think it was— reasons unrelated to service life. That was a defined [Interruption.] Sir Jim Spicer, the MP for Dorset, West. group of individuals to whom the right hon. Gentleman I thank the hon. Member for West Chelmsford. referred. In 2008, the Government Actuary’s Department The fact that those changes were not made retrospectively conducted a detailed study of the costs of providing in the 1970s was an important factor for the Government pensions for life for non-attributable widows, and found then, and it is an important factor for the Government that the cost of providing pensions for future service now, and for all future Governments. I do not usually would be about £14 million a year. That would gradually agree with the right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks, decrease, as the right hon. Gentleman suggested, as the but he reiterated that not only that Government but number of AFPS pensioners fell—as they got older and others had never engaged in retrospection. He clearly the grim reaper took his toll. Using the rates in the 1975 explained that if new provisions were introduced with AFPS, the retrospective costs would be about £70 million, retrospection, it would make them unaffordable. but they might be as high as £350 million for the armed Mrs. Ewing, who was obviously quite a formidable lady, forces scheme. I asked for the figure throughout the was not having that and pressed the new clauses to a public sector, and I shall be quite happy to share the vote. I am not criticising the right hon. Gentleman in information with the right hon. Gentleman afterwards. any way, because I know that, like me, he is a party It would be about £3 billion, although I accept his point loyalist, but he voted against the new clauses. The Ayes that, as years go by, it will decrease. Again, however, were 41 and the Noes were 199. The then Government such a measure would be unfair. realised that they could not have retrospection, and that is relevant today as well. No Government have retrospectively changed pension entitlements under the schemes. It is worth looking at There is a legal principle involved in retrospection, the similarities between the provisions of the Bill and all these things get tested in the courts—increasingly and the changes that were introduced in the Pensions in the European Court of Human Rights. In January Act 1995—being an anorak, I spent last night trying to 2002, the Forces Pension Society backed a challenge in see the crossovers. The main clauses before us were the European Court by a number of retired officers on tabled during the passage of the 1995 Act in order to do the post-retirement and one-third pension issue. Their exactly what the right hon. Gentleman wants to do complaint was that the 1975 AFPS calculation of their today.New clauses 11 to 14 were introduced by Mrs. Ewing, widow’s pension entitlement in the event of death, a Scottish Nationalist Member at the time, and they which was based on the date of marriage or retirement, were voted on. The right hon. Member for Richmond, was arbitrary and discriminatory. The right hon. Member Yorks (Mr. Hague), who was a Minister in what I think for Richmond, Yorks made that point in his contribution was the Department for Social Security in 1995, resisted on the 1995 Act. It takes me back to the point I keep new clause 11, and it is worth noting what was said in making, that wherever we put the cut-off date there will respect of the other new clauses: be winners and losers on either side of it. 603 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 604 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill Interestingly, the Court ruled that the challenge was or after 1 October 1987 would be allowed to count all inadmissible as the individuals involved were not victims service after 6 April 1978—a date on which service was and had received their entitlement as set out when they counted for post-retirement spouse’s pension. Again, retired. It ruled that the subsequent rule change had not that is in line with widows’ treatment. Those who left altered the entitlement of those who had already retired. service before 1 October 1987 would not be entitled to That is an important point. People join a scheme on the count their service for that purpose. When establishing terms set out at that point. I accept that many of us, eligibility for a survivor’s pension, service personnel and particularly younger individuals, never look at their the Veterans Agency will look for proof of registration, entitlements in their pension scheme until later in life, as they would look for a marriage certificate for a when they realise that they might make it to retirement widow or widower. The Bill would extend civil partners’ and get the pension that they have been paying into. eligibility to receive survivor’s pension far beyond the However, that challenge to the scheme was not allowed remit of the 2004 Act. The arrangements would be far by the European Court of Human Rights. more generous than those under the 1975 armed forces The Bill encompasses civil partners. As hon. Members pension scheme. know, the Civil Partnership Act 2004 created a completely Much as I welcome civil partnerships legislation, we new legal relationship enabling two individuals of the cannot escape the fact that someone would have pay for same sex to register their relationship. The Bill suggests the extension of entitlement, and the burden would that civil partners, as well as widows, be included in its again fall on the defence budget. In my experience in the remit. When registering a civil partnership, same-sex Ministry of Defence in the past nine months, affordability couples obtain legal recognition of their relationship comes up time and again. The Treasury keeps a keen eye and acquire the same rights enjoyed by married couples. on implications for the Exchequer, not just the defence We extended those rights in the Armed Forces Act 2006, budget. and I remember that that was bitterly opposed at the There is some concern about reservists because the time by the hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth), Bill discriminates against them, although I am sure that but common sense succeeded. The Civil Partnership that is unintentional. I know that the right hon. Member Act came into force on 5 December 2005. Before that for East Hampshire would never wish to do that because date, while other couples had the option of marriage, he supports all our armed forces, full time or reservists. same-sex partners could not formalise their relationship. However, clause 4, which is entitled “Interpretation”, The situation for service personnel who were still in states: service when the Act came into force is straightforward: “In this Act… ‘armed forces’ means the naval, military or air the whole of their reckonable service will be counted forces of the Crown, but not the reserve forces,… ‘reserve forces’ towards the pension of their civil partner survivor. The has the same meaning as in the Reserve Forces Act 1996”. general guidance on the Act was that the entitlement of The Bill would, therefore, albeit unintentionally, exclude civil partners to survivor’s benefit could be limited to reservists. I find it particularly unfair that it excludes a service between 1988 and the date of the scheme member’s group which I know that the right hon. Gentleman retirement. However, for the armed forces pension scheme supports, and which makes an invaluable contribution. it was decided that as civil partners had an entirely new status, they would be allowed to count service from Mr. Mates: I am almost sure that there were no October 1987. The same was agreed for widows’ pensions. pension provisions for reserve forces before 1973, so there cannot be any reserve forces widows who have Mr. Eric Joyce (Falkirk) (Lab): That improvement pensions. However, I am not absolutely certain. seems particularly important. Around the country there are not a huge number of people affected, but we come Mr. Jones: We will call that a score draw, but such across a surprising number of cases in which people matters could be considered in Committee, as the hon. involved in same-sex relationships have left the forces, Member for West Chelmsford suggested. The important lived with their partner for 20 or 30 years afterwards point is that if the legislation is to make provision and then died, and their partner has not received any retrospectively, it must cover all groups, although I do benefit from their pension. I believe that the new benefit not think that it was the right hon. Gentleman’s intention was introduced in 2003 or 2004, and it benefits all those not to do that. people across the country, in some cases elderly ladies, I have covered some of the issues relating to the who are not quick to raise their hands. retrospective nature of the Bill. The right hon. Gentleman quite rightly made the argument for the special group Mr. Jones: I am pleased that the Government have that he mentioned, but there are other areas of the Bill recognised and helped that group. The Conservatives where, if we were to make a change, we would make a opposed the 2004 Act, but I understand that the new special group of others, as I think I have mentioned. Conservatives now support the measure, although some Another group that we could argue for are those who of the more regressive backwoodsmen possibly think it were affected by what is called the pension trough, was not a good idea. However, my hon. Friend makes which relates to public service pension schemes that are the good point that it extended benefits and civil rights final salary schemes, such as the armed forces pension to a group of individuals who did not receive them in scheme of 1975. That means that pension awards are the past. made on the basis of an individual’s pay rate at the time, The Bill means that those entering into a civil partnership which is again a topical issue. would be eligible for a survivor’s benefit, so those in There have been a number of troughs over the past service on 5 December 2005 would be allowed to count 50 years, but a particular cause for concern among all their service for their civil partners’ benefit. Those service pensioners in the mid-1970s, who still feel aggrieved who left service before that date but were in service on and quite rightly make representations, was the fact that 605 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 19 JUNE 2009 Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of 606 Treatment) Bill Treatment) Bill [Mr. Kevan Jones] The right hon. Gentleman has made some important points, but the aspects of retrospection and affordability public sector salaries were restrained because of the make his proposals difficult to accept. Also, we should then incomes policy. Several years of high inflation not raise people’s hopes. I accept his point that the meant that the pensions of those retiring before wage number of individuals involved is declining over the constraints were lifted were overlooked. They are another years, but we should not do any injustice to those who group of people whom we might consider who feel died before the changes were made. Any changes would strongly that they were disadvantaged through no fault involve an arbitrary date. I would not want this Government of their own. They served their country, but they were or any other to be prevented from introducing a change affected by the then Government’s incomes policy. The to pension entitlement by having to consider the cost of question is whether we should make a retrospective implementing the change retrospectively. change for those individuals. Last time I was at the Dispatch Box, I was replying to Mr. Mates: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. the Gurkha debate. Everyone would agree that we owe As we come to the end of today’s debate, may I make a the Gurkhas a great debt of gratitude, but one of the serious point of order to you about the way in which we issues raised in that debate was the retrospection of do our business in private Members’ time? I do this Gurkha pensions. As has been said—I know this in because we now have a short window of opportunity detail—the issue has been to the High Court on a during the interregnum between Speakers when you number of occasions. The Gurkhas are a group of and all the other candidates are advocating the need to individuals whom the public support and for whom change some of the ways in which we conduct our they have a tremendous amount of respect, but there is proceedings. Today is perhaps one of the better examples an issue with those individuals who served before July of how ill we use our time in the House. This is not the 1997—a date chosen because it was the date on which whinge of a frustrated Back Bencher—I have been here the Gurkhas became based in the UK, rather than in too long; I know that the system is the system. We have Hong Kong or other parts of south-east Asia. The sat here for five hours today, during which we first pensions payable to Gurkhas post-1997 were incorporated discussed a Bill that had universal approval across the into the armed forces schemes, with most of them in the House and which could have been dealt with perfectly new armed forces scheme of 2005, while the pre-1997 well in 30 minutes or an hour. That was followed by this pensions obviously come under a different scheme. There short Bill. It is a controversial one that the Government is the question whether we should retrospectively pay do not support—fair enough—but the matter could any changes in the armed forces pension scheme to the have been decided on a vote after an hour. That would pre-1997 Gurkhas, which is an issue that I have already have given us time to debate the Bill of my hon. Friend raised, given the changes that we have made to allow the Member for Vale of York (Miss McIntosh). That is more Gurkhas to come into this country, and which I how we should properly conduct private Members’ think is due to return to court this year. The figure for business. The House has set aside time for Back Benchers that group alone is £1.5 billion. to introduce legislation about matters that we think are important, yet it is frustrated not by the will of the Those two examples demonstrate the costs involved. House but by the Government saying, “We don’t want They might not seem like much individually, but if we this Bill to go to a vote, so we are going to talk it out.” add them up, we see that they are large just for the This is a system— MOD, and the implications across other Departments are also quite large. The provisions would also break the Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. I precedent relating to retrospection, which all Government think I have got the drift. The right hon. Gentleman have resisted doing. To do so would make most of the was making a point of order to begin with, but now he changes to the pensions would be unaffordable. is moving away from it. Also, by continuing, he might A further point that I would like to make relates to deny me the opportunity to reply to him. Suggestions the plight of war widows. I pay tribute to Gill Grigg and have been made regarding the use of Fridays, and how others from the War Widows Association who have private Members’ Bills should be dealt with. I might worked tremendously hard on behalf of war widows have been responsible for some suggestions myself, but and given support not only to the older widows but to it would be quite improper for me to elaborate on that the younger ones whose husbands served in the conflicts at this stage. in Afghanistan and Iraq. I always find it very humbling when I meet the widows of those who served in those Mr. Mates: Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy conflicts. They take tremendous pride in what their Speaker. I did not want to put you in that position. I husbands did, and we need to recognise that we should wanted to say to all of you that I hope that this matter is support them. really going to be looked at. The right hon. Gentleman’s point about the older Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I think that the right war widows was correct. I would not want to give the hon. Gentleman has made his point. impression that the pension is the only support that this country gives to them. As a Government, we can rightly Mr. Jones: Speaking as an aficionado of Fridays be proud of the changes that we have made for pensioners, when I was a Back Bencher, and having secured the— which also affect many war widows. The minimum income guarantee, for example, has raised a lot of 2.30 pm pensioners out of poverty, and I know that the winter fuel payment, which all pensioners receive, is very welcome. The debate stood adjourned (Standing Order No. 11(2)). We need to look at the question of widows’ pensions Ordered, That the debate be resumed on Friday and war pensions in the round. 16 October. 607 19 JUNE 2009 608

Business without Debate Rail Services (Access) Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House THEFT FROM SHOPS (USE OF PENALTY do now adjourn.—(Kerry McCarthy.) NOTICES FOR DISORDER) BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second 2.30 pm time. Martin Linton (Battersea) (Lab): It is a great pleasure to devote this Adjournment debate to a subject close to Hon. Members: Object. my heart—access to the railway system, not just by Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 3 July. disabled people, but by all who have difficulty accessing stations and train services. ORGAN DONATION (PRESUMED CONSENT) It was also my great pleasure last year to open a new BILL lift, jointly with the Minister of State, Department for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting Resumption of adjourned debate on Question (13 March), (Mr. Khan), at Balham station, which is on the boundary That the Bill be now read a Second time. of our two constituencies. The lift was entirely paid for Question put and agreed to. by the Government’s access for all scheme. We paid two Bill read a Second time; to stand committed to a visits, the first while the lift was being built and then Public Bill Committee (Standing Order No. 63). again when it was opened. What struck me the first time as we watched the lift being built was just how many people had to struggle with the busy stairs between platforms 2 and 3: mothers with toddlers in double buggies, a skier with a broken leg hobbling up with a stick, a couple who had been out shopping and bought a chair and had to carry it up, cyclists having to take their bikes up and an elderly gentleman walking with a stick. What struck me most the second time, when we took the scissors and snipped the tape, was just how large a section of the community among the population are able to access station platforms only once a lift has been built—most obviously, people in wheelchairs, but also those with emphysema, heart complaints or just very elderly people. There are also those for whom access may not be impossible, but it is certainly difficult, especially without assistance—the parents of young children in prams or buggies, people with heavy luggage or lots of shopping, people carrying bicycles and so forth. All those categories were, I am sure, grateful for the installation of the Balham lift. The Government deserve enormous credit for having pushed ahead with their access for all scheme, which is providing lifts for more than 100 stations. The historic moment is coming soon when the first lifts will start to operate at Clapham Junction station, where nine lifts are being installed under that scheme. The station has been there for 146 years, but this will be the first time that many people have been able to access any of the 17 platforms in this station. I have constituents living next to the station who have to take a taxi to Victoria in order to get on a train that will stop six minutes later within a few yards of their home at Clapham Junction. Let me start by paying tribute to Ministers who have pushed this scheme through. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, South (Mr. Harris) was the responsible Minister at the time we opened Balham, but there will have been other Ministers before him. I also pay tribute to the managers at Network Rail, particularly Gary Tordoff and Peter Maynard who have driven the programme forward, but many others have been carrying it through. I also want to thank all the people working for contractors at Clapham Junction, Balham and elsewhere for installing these lifts. The Minister of State has another connection with this subject, as he was chair of the access to railways stakeholder group, to which I also hope to invite the 609 Rail Services (Access)19 JUNE 2009 Rail Services (Access) 610

[Martin Linton] project, it would be useful to devolve some of the smaller schemes to train operating companies. They already Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend have responsibility for the small schemes programme, the Member for Ipswich (Chris Mole) in his new capacity. which has benefited more than 1,000 stations so far. It brings together the railway industry and disability Access from the platform to the train is not the organisations to speak to MPs and Ministers about subject of the access for all programme. It is a far more access to the railways. I had the honour of succeeding complicated problem and the stakeholder group has my right hon. Friend in the chair when he became a often debated it. Remarkably few stations have level Minister. I pay tribute in particular to Roger Turner of access from the platform to the carriage floor. The the National Federation of Royal Mail and BT Pensioners, docklands light railway stations have that, as do those who started the organisation, and to Laura Blake of of the Heathrow Express and the London underground, Connect Public Affairs, who runs the committee. I of course. Some suburban stations in Liverpool have it, thank David Sindall of the Association of Train Operating too. Those stations have been specifically built for the Companies, Nicholas Russell of Guide Dogs for the trains that provide the service. It is extraordinary, however, Blind and others who helped me to prepare for the that we still have this problem, which is a huge obstacle debate. for many disabled people. It was a great pleasure last year to see those lifts There are various ways in which the problem can be installed, but I want to address my remarks to the tackled. There is the “hump” trial, which reduces the programme’s future. In my mind, I divide the issue into stepping gap between the platform and the train. That three parts: first, access from the station to the platform, has been tried at some stations, including Harrington which is the bulk of what access for all is about; and St. Albans Abbey. There are also ramps that can be secondly, access from the platform to the train, which is wheeled on to the platform and winched up, so that a possibly an even more difficult subject; and thirdly, disabled person can board a train. Using them increases what happens once a person gets on the train. There dwell times, however, which can be an issue on busy is also the need to ensure that people with disabilities commuter lines, and it is therefore often resisted by have the same access to information about trains as railway operators. There are also ramps that fold down everyone else. from trains. Germany and Holland have them, but they Most small stations do not have the problem of pose a risk to the people on the platform if they are not access to platforms, with level access to both platforms, pulled up before the train departs. but Clapham Junction is the classic case: 17 platforms The long-term solution is for as many platforms as and no disabled access to any of them. The access for all possible to be at the same level as the carriage floor. I scheme has made a huge difference there. The final appreciate that achieving that is technically very difficult, target of the £370 million given to access for all is that partly because different lines have grown up with different 125 stations will be converted by 2014. The Minister traditions, and different rolling stock have different may have more up-to-date figures on that. carriage-floor heights. There is also the problem of the There has been discussion about the choice of stations, curvature of the track. There are, however, standard which is based on the top 500 stations for footfall, but acceptable widths for the gaps between the platform cross-checked with areas that have the most disabled and the step, which is about 10 inches, and between the people. I am glad that Clapham Junction and Balham step and the carriage floor, which is about 11 inches, were picked out. Many other stations in London are although where there is a curved platform the gap will getting the treatment, and I encourage the Minister to be greater at certain points. stick with the idea of where most people will benefit. It will take a generation for any standard set now to become the norm, let alone universal, but I want the Equally, London Underground is making many of its Department to think about whether for the future we stations step-free. I think that 56 are currently step-free, ought at least to set the same standard height for and the target is 25 per cent. of stations by 2010. It is platforms and carriage floors, so that we can work introducing tactile strips on platforms and contrasting towards achieving this when new lines are built, new handrails, which are valuable to some groups. It is also rolling stock is designed and new stations are extended. introducing wide-aisle ticket gates, which are important Most of the railways were built at a time when it was for people in wheelchairs. assumed that if somebody had a disability, they would There has been criticism of the time that it has taken be excluded from the railway system for ever; that was for the access for all scheme to reach its targets. Certainly, considered to be inevitable. Nowadays, however, we both stations in my constituency have slipped a bit on do not consider it to be inevitable. On the contrary, we the expected time completion, partly because they are consider it to be something we should fight against. old, Victorian stations and it is always unpredictable Now is the time to establish these standards, therefore. what will be found once lift shafts are sunk. I do not They will probably have to be the same across Europe, blame any particular scheme for delays, but it is clear but that should not be seen as an argument against that some people think that the project management trying. has not been fully up to speed. At some stations— There is a problem with the senior citizen’s railcard. Twickenham, for example—the issue has been whether Its cost of £26 is a disincentive to some pensioners. the installation of lifts is worth while in terms of the However, because the conditions are exactly the same as benefit that is available. Sometimes the cost of installation those for concessionary bus travel, it could be given free may be excessive. to senior citizens. They would still pay for their tickets, Train operating companies are keen to take on the but they would get the senior citizen’s railcard for free, management and delivery of some projects, although I which would encourage a lot more of them to use the am certain not all of them. I am sure that the Minister railways, especially those who use them only occasionally will consider whether, to keep up to speed on the and for whom the £26 would be a fairly large expense. 611 Rail Services (Access)19 JUNE 2009 Rail Services (Access) 612

There are various problems with the trains themselves, the list keeps expanding. I know that he will share my particularly for the partially sighted. There may be vision of a railway system that is fully usable by everybody priority seating, but locating it can be a problem for in this country, regardless of whether they have a disability. them. Also, the aisles are often too narrow to give This subject requires vision, dedication and planning, access for wheelchairs. It is also very important to make and I hope to invite him to meet the stakeholder group full use of audible, as well as visual, information systems at some point in the near future, so that we can carry on and to use contrasting colours, because many partially the very fruitful discussions that we have had with his sighted people can distinguish those and that is their predecessors in the Department for Transport on how only chance of being able to find their way around we can make the railways accessible for all. without assistance inside a train. Possibly the most important thing for the visually 2.49 pm impaired is having tactile edges on platforms. They have been installed as part of the access for all programme, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport but only on a case-by-case basis. It would be hugely (Chris Mole): I am grateful to my hon. Friend the expensive to install them overnight on every platform in Member for Battersea (Martin Linton) for securing this the country, but it is important that we maintain the debate on this important matter and for his eloquent momentum in working towards that aim. There have summary of the issues. I hope to deal with all his been times when partially sighted people have been lost questions, although not necessarily in the order in which over the edge of a platform when that may have been he put them to me. prevented by the installation of a tactile edge. The provision of an accessible public transport system So many rail issues affect not only disabled people, in which disabled people can have the same opportunities but many others. I should add a word on the ticketing to travel as other members of society is a key plank in systems. The following may sound like obvious points, our policy to improve the life chances of disabled people but they are clearly important to people with visual and to promote social inclusion. We are fully aware impairment. If there is no audible facility on a touch-screen that, without accessible transport, disabled people are they cannot be used by visually impaired people—such limited in their ability to access work, visit friends and screens could easily be adapted in that way. The text family, participate in leisure activities or access health size is often not sufficiently large for partially sighted care and education facilities. As my hon. Friend people to read, so the screens need to be adapted to acknowledges, that is why we have taken strong action increase the text size in places where that has not to ensure that public transport services are increasingly already been done. accessible to the estimated 11 million disabled people who live in Great Britain. I believe that our record in Another problem relates to unstaffed railway stations. this area speaks for itself. There is supposed to be an information line whereby people can get information about how to get on a train We have introduced regulations, the Rail Vehicle at an unstaffed station. I heard recently of a case where Accessibility Regulations 1998—more commonly known somebody phoned up and was told that there were no as the RVAR—which ensured that all new rail vehicles facilities at an unstaffed station to allow them to get on introduced since 31 December 1998 had to be accessible. the trains, but when they travelled 22 miles by taxi to The RVARconsiderably improve accessibility by specifying catch a train, they discovered that there were actually features such as larger and easier access to priority seats facilities at the station. It is one thing to provide the for disabled passengers; use of tonal contrast in liveries facilities, but it is equally important to ensure that the and finishes; a minimum number of spaces for wheelchair information is available to the people who need it—that users; boarding devices to facilitate wheelchair access; applies in respect of all trips, not just pre-planned ones. provision of handrails and handholds; and provision of Many people are totally dependent on getting the audible and visual passenger information. information quickly before they travel. The assisted Almost 5,000 accessible rail vehicles are already in travel management system certainly needs a good deal service and all rail vehicles must be accessible by no of improvement, which should include low call and later than 1 January 2020. That end date dovetails with freephone telephone services specifically for disabled similar provisions in place for buses and coaches, ensuring passengers. an accessible transport chain and giving disabled people Printed timetables often have small print, which cannot certainty that they will be able to access all public be read by partially sighted people, and they may not be transport vehicles in future. available in large print, Braille or audio—those formats We are currently consulting on further improvements are equally important. It is also important for train staff to the RVAR to reflect the progress made and lessons to have disability awareness and for that to be standardised learned during the last decade. These include amendments across the whole system. Often the difference between to the technical accessibility standards they contain, the different train companies can be very confusing for mandatory application of accessibility requirements to people. Most importantly of all, disability training should refurbishment projects within the scope of works, and be provided. There is no doubt that a lot of training is measures for strengthening the enforcement regime. required in order for people to know how to handle the They will also for the first time bring other, previously problems of disabled passengers, and it is very important unregulated, rail vehicles into scope, such as the people that the person who is on duty in the station is aware of mover at Gatwick airport. these issues. Our ultimate aim in revising the regulations is to I have probably given the Minister a shopping list ensure that the RVAR continue to meet the legitimate that he will consider to be almost too long. When one aspirations of disabled people for the next decade. We starts to go into the details of the problems that people want the new provisions to be in place as soon as have in making use of the train system, one finds that possible and, preferably, by the end of this year. We 613 Rail Services (Access)19 JUNE 2009 Rail Services (Access) 614

[Chris Mole] In addition, the small schemes programme is now providing almost £25 million of match funding towards should also remember that, although they may not have investment of almost £100 million in total, supporting been built to modern accessibility standards, many improvements that meet local needs at over 1,000 stations thousands of older rail vehicles have already been made by spring 2010. Bids for further works to be completed more accessible through refurbishment. That includes in 2010-11 have also just been invited. fleets of older trains built in the 1980s that serve my The access for all programme exists in addition to hon. Friend’s constituency and have recently been commitments made in franchises and other programmed refurbished with passenger information systems, wheelchair major station improvements. It also builds on the spaces, priority seats and colour contrast. raising of standards over recent years including the Our leadership in the area of rail vehicle accessibility requirement on train operating companies to take account has now been recognised at European level. When of accessibility standards in the code of practice on considering the development of new technical accessibility train and station standards for disabled people. The standards for trains, the European Commission based accessibility of booking facilities, for example, and the those largely on the RVAR.That is a clear demonstration provision of access for disabled passengers has also of how far ahead of mainland Europe we are in that significantly improved. respect. The new pan-European standards were introduced My hon. Friend asked about accessibility in London. last year and will represent a step change—pun not He will recognise that much of the underground system intended—in accessibility for disabled travellers on the is difficult for disabled people to access because of the continent. Those standards are more inclusive than in era in which it was constructed. The constraints caused the past, in that they make provision for older people, by the original design of stations can make the installation pregnant women and people with small children, in of facilities such as lifts very difficult. London Underground addition to people with disabilities. We welcome that is committed to a core network of step-free stations and expansion of provision. although there are currently some 43 step-free stations, We also recognised that services provided on rail, and with plans for 25 per cent. of the network to be step-free other public transport vehicles were not covered by by 2010, I am sure that he will be pleased to hear that part III of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. further provision is expected with the introduction of Those provisions place obligations on service providers new facilities to support the Olympic and Paralympic to ensure that their services are not “impossible or games in 2012. New lines, such as the Jubilee line ″ unreasonably difficult” for disabled people to access. extension, are fully accessible, of course. The exclusion of transport services meant that a disabled person could have lawfully been refused access to a There is still much to do, however, and I do not think public transport vehicle which was otherwise accessible that anybody would underestimate the scale of the to them solely because they were disabled. That was challenge or believe that the railways for all strategy completely unacceptable so we took action to close that represents the end of our task. Together, these provisions loophole in the Disability Discrimination Act 2005. will deliver consistent access standards for vehicles and Part III was then applied to transport services from stations across the whole rail network for the first time. December 2006. That has also given disabled people the Having made so much progress in improving train and power to challenge transport providers to improve the station accessibility, we also recognise that other areas accessibility of all aspects of their services. of the end-to-end journey require improvement. For example, we acknowledge that the gap between the We must do more. We recognise that progress in platform and the train can represent a significant barrier improving the accessibility of rail vehicles must be to many disabled people. I am aware of the particular accompanied by improvements to the accessibility of problems in that respect at Clapham Junction station in stations and stops. Accessible stations make a huge my hon. Friend’s constituency, where our Victorian difference to people’s journey experience, not only for forefathers have bequeathed us sharply curved platforms people with reduced mobility, but for those carrying and the resultant large gaps. heavy luggage or pushing unwieldy pushchairs, and we remain committed to making further improvements. Unfortunately, because of the need to provide clearance In March 2006, we published our railways for all for fast through trains and freight, boarding ramps will strategy, which set out what the rail industry as a whole remain necessary at most stations. However, where possible, is doing to improve access to rail services, particularly new routes with new, dedicated trains will be built to for people with disabilities. I am pleased to report that provide level access. Such access is already in place in the access for all programme described in the strategy is the modern tram systems and in many light rail systems, rolling out across the network, with accessible routes such as the docklands light railway and the London already installed at 25 stations and a further 11 in underground Jubilee line extension. The central London progress. By the end of the current financial year, we core of Crossrail will also have level access. expect a total of 40 stations to have been completed. Elsewhere, as my hon. Friend noted, we are supporting My hon. Friend asked whether we were disappointed novel solutions to the problem of the gap between with the progress that has been made. We would like to the train and the platform. A recent development is the have seen a few more stations delivered by this stage, possibility of retrofitting “humps” at stations with but earlier this year Network Rail carried out a full traditionally very low platforms where usage means review of the programme, and the programme delivery that rectification work might not be a priority. My hon. is now gaining momentum. Additionally, I would like Friend is clearly aware of the successful trial in Harrington him to recognise that the option selection and design in Cumbria. Similar platform humps are planned for element of the programme was front-loaded and has the central London section of Thameslink, and have now been completed for the majority of stations. I hope already been provided on some London underground that things will progress more quickly from here on in. Victoria line stations in preparation for the new trains 615 Rail Services (Access)19 JUNE 2009 Rail Services (Access) 616 that will be introduced there later this year. Where As my hon. Friend noted, as trains and stations are physically possible, those humps will provide level access made accessible for disabled people, the facilities that at least to the doors that wheelchair users use. they offer greatly benefit other passengers. We have The need to improve access to the railway network already achieved a great deal in that area, but we are far does not stop with physical accessibility to stations and from complacent, and will continue to work with the vehicles. Barriers such as lack of confidence, poor travel industry, organisations— information and the attitudes of staff all affect disabled people’s ability to use public transport. I should just 3.1 pm mention the staff disability awareness training DVD, which was funded through the access for all small House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order schemes fund. I hope that that will address some of the No. 9(7)). concerns that my hon. Friend raised.

37WS Written Ministerial Statements19 JUNE 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 38WS

As a result of the termination of the joint venture the Written Ministerial Department is paying Partnerships UK an amount of £22.4 million. This sum repays Partnerships UK for its Statements share of the funding of the joint venture plus a return on that investment. The return remunerates Partnerships UK for interest on its investment, the risks associated, Friday 19 June 2009 and the support and commitment to the programmes provided to date. CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES HEALTH Partnerships for Schools Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer The Minister of State, Department for Children, Schools Affairs Council and Families (Mr. Vernon Coaker): Building Schools for the Future is helping transform secondary school The Minister of State, Department of Health (Gillian infrastructure in England, providing world-class teaching Merron): The Employment, Social Policy, Health and and learning environments for pupils, teachers and Consumer Affairs Council met on 8 and 9 June in communities. Since the programme was established, Luxembourg. The Health and Consumer Affairs part more than £3 billion of funding has been committed to of the Council was taken on 9 June. Andy Lebrecht, rebuilding and renewing the estate, with over 75 schools Deputy Permanent Representative at UKRep represented now benefiting from this investment. Around a third of the UK. all secondary schools are now involved in the programme. In 2004, the Department created Partnerships for At the meeting, the Council adopted recommendations Schools to manage the programme centrally and support on the Czech presidency theme of patient safety, including local authorities in local implementation. The funding the prevention and control of healthcare associated and management of Partnerships for Schools has been infections and on action in the field of rare diseases. carried out under a joint venture between the Department The United Kingdom supported the adoption of these and Partnerships UK. Partnerships UK was set up to conclusions. help the Government deliver improvements in public The presidency provided a progress report on the services particularly where major infrastructure renewal proposal for a directive on cross-border healthcare, programmes are involved. which was followed by a debate between member states Through the joint venture, Partnerships UK has made where it was clear that there remain concerns among a significant contribution to the successful delivery of member states on treatments to be included under the Building Schools for the Future by providing strategic, directive. The UK intervened to thank the Czech presidency commercial, programme and project management expertise, for their work taking this dossier forward, and welcomed and in the early years secondment of key staff. Since the Council’s firm support for certain fundamental 2006 Partnerships UK has also been supporting principles—in particular that of ensuring that member Partnerships for Schools in the construction of new states retain the ability to determine healthcare entitlements. academies. As the National Audit Office pointed out in The UK noted that there remained some technical its recent report on “Building Schools for the Future” issues to be resolved in chapters 1 to 3, and that we still (published on 12 February 2009), “the effect [of the had serious concerns about the extent and appropriateness joint venture arrangement] has been to engender top of some provisions of chapter four (on co-operation level attention to BSF in PUK, and greater in-depth between healthcare systems). support and commitment”, and this has been crucial in Over lunch, there was a discussion from the Commission establishing the programme. on H1N1(A) influenza, following a paper the Commission Following the success in setting up these programmes, had provided to member states in advance. and recognising Partnerships for Schools’ increasing The afternoon discussion focused on the “pharmaceutical maturity as an organisation and the plans to enlarge package”. The majority of member states who intervened their remit later this year, the Department and Partnerships welcomed the proposals on counterfeit medicines and UK have reviewed the governance arrangements for pharmacovigilance, as did the UK. Most of member Partnerships for Schools and have agreed that it is no states, however, were not supportive of the third element longer necessary for Partnerships UK to engage as of the package: the proposals on “information to patients”. intensively as through the joint venture, which was The UK noted that the divergent views across Europe focused on Building Schools for the Future. It has meant that discussion of a harmonised legal framework therefore been agreed to bring the joint venture to an was difficult. However, the UK encouraged member end. states to find a way to keep the issues under discussion. Going forward, Partnerships UK will maintain an Under any other business, the presidency and Commission active involvement in the delivery of Building Schools provided information on a range of issues including a for the Future and other capital programmes by continuing summary of the lunchtime discussion on swine flu, a to provide support through an existing alternative directive on standards of quality and safety of human contractual basis rather than through the joint venture. organs intended for transplantation, the outcome of a As part of the new arrangements, the chief executive of Council working party on public health at senior level Partnerships UK will be an ex officio board member and information on ingredients in tobacco products. and director of Partnerships for Schools, and the finance The incoming Swedish presidency provided information director of Partnerships UK an ex officio observer to on their priorities for health, which they intend to take the board. forward under their presidency. 39WS Written Ministerial Statements19 JUNE 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 40WS

PRIME MINISTER Safety on the rail network is a paramount consideration. In relation to the Grayrigg accident, I am satisfied that the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) has carried out a thorough Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and investigation into the accident as part of the new rail safety and accident investigation regime, which included consideration of Western European Union (UK Delegation) relevant issues arising from earlier accidents including Potters Bar. In particular, I note that the RAIB consulted with key stakeholders, including the bereaved, prior to the publication of The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): The Earl of its final report, during which process no further lines of work or Dundee DL has been appointed as a substitute member testing by RAIB were identified. There will be a further independent of the United Kingdom delegation to the Parliamentary examination of the accident during an inquest, which I am Assembly of the Council of Europe and the Assembly satisfied is capable of addressing any relevant questions that remain unanswered. I shall make funds available to the Coroner of Western European Union in place of Baroness O’Cathain for South and East Cumbria, to assist him in carrying out a full OBE. investigation, if these are requested. With regard to the Potters Bar accident, it has already been established that there will be an enhanced inquest into that Staff Counsellor for the Security and Intelligence accident, and funding has previously been agreed to enable the Services Hertfordshire coroner to appoint an assistant deputy for this purpose. A High Court judge, Mr. Justice Sullivan, had been appointed accordingly; but he has since been made a Lord Justice The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): I have recently of Appeal. We are working with the Lord Chief Justice to identify an appropriate judge to act as an assistant coroner in the Potters appointed Desmond Bowen CMG as Staff Counsellor Bar inquest and I understand that he hopes to make a decision for the security and intelligence services, with effect shortly. This inquest, which was adjourned following the Grayrigg from 6 April 2009. He was a civil servant from 1973 accident, will provide an opportunity for a further independent until he retired, as Policy Director at the Ministry of examination of the Potters Bar accident, with the bereaved and Defence, in October 2008. injured able to participate in a forum that is open and transparent. I consider that, in the light of the court’s comments during the John Warne CB has served as Staff Counsellor since earlier judicial review proceedings, the proposed full inquest into February 2004. His appointment was due to end in the Potters Bar accident should be capable of addressing any February 2009, although he kindly agreed to extend his relevant unanswered questions. term to 5 April. I would like to thank him for his work The travelling public will want to be assured that the rail during his time in office and in particular for the valuable network is safe; I have an identical interest. I note that, in October support he has provided to staff working in the security 2008, the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR), the independent rail and intelligence services. safety regulator, assured the then Secretary of State that no further immediate actions to ensure the safety of passengers and staff were necessary as a result of RAIB’s final report into Grayrigg, beyond those that had already been taken. TRANSPORT Moreover, in the light of the significant changes and improvements to the railway safety regime during the period between the Potters Bar and Grayrigg accidents, I believe it is in the public interest that the new structures are allowed to operate as intended. I note Rail Accidents (Grayrigg and Potters Bar) that actions have already been taken by RAIB and ORR following the Grayrigg accident to secure the ongoing safety of the railway. Since I am satisfied that effective investigation and action have The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport already taken place, I see no good reason to take steps which may (Chris Mole): My noble Friend the Secretary of State call the new structures into question prematurely or which might be seen as questioning the independence, value and outcome of for Transport, Lord Adonis, has made the following the RAIB investigation into Grayrigg before the ORR, the rail ministerial statement: industry and others have had a sufficient opportunity to act upon Further to the written statements by the then Secretary of all of its recommendations. State for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield As stated in the written statement to Parliament by the then (Mr. Hoon) on 23 October 2008, Official Report, column 19WS Secretary of State on 23 October 2008, the Government consider and 19 November 2008, Official Report, column 24WS, I would it essential to ensure that the way forward selected is one that will like to inform the House that following careful consideration, deliver closure to those who were affected, as soon as possible. I including those representations made by affected parties, I have do not consider that any significant advantage in timing would be decided that the public interest is best served by the continuation achieved by setting up a public inquiry, such as to outweigh other of the two inquests that have begun into the deaths resulting from considerations in favour of proceeding with two inquests, as has the rail accidents at Potters Bar and at Grayrigg. I have therefore been suggested by some of those who made representations to decided not to convene a public inquiry into the accidents, either me. The timetable for further investigations into these accidents is individually or jointly. a matter for the coroners, who may wish to discuss the timing of I regret the length of time taken to reach this point, and the the inquests given that there may be some overlap between the anxiety that this may have caused to those who have lost loved interested persons involved. However, even if the separate inquests ones. However, the chronology of events and the issues are are held sequentially, I anticipate that the two inquests are capable complex and I considered it important to ensure that my decision of being completed to a similar timescale as would apply to a regarding the next steps is the right one. public inquiry. In these circumstances, I consider that the way Having considered the material before me, I am satisfied that forward selected is consistent with my objective of helping to separate inquests will allow for appropriate further independent deliver closure to those affected with minimal delay. investigations of the accidents, with the bereaved and injured able I am grateful for the comments and observations received from to participate and express their views and concerns in a transparent interested parties, which have served to inform me in reaching a forum open to public scrutiny. Although the conduct of the decision. inquests is a matter for the coroners, the inquests will be capable The full text of my decision has been placed in the Libraries of of examining the relevant issues raised by the accidents, including both Houses. Copies are also available from the Vote Office and those that are common to both. Printed Paper Office. 505W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 506W

Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department for Children Written Answers to Schools and Families and its predecessor consumed the following electricity and gas from the period 2004-05 to Questions 2008-09. kWh Friday 19 June 2009 Electricity Gas 2004-05 19,442,456 10,041,361 2005-06 19,473,174 10,990,973 CABINET OFFICE 2006-07 19,891,015 9,568,107 2007-08 15,621,504 8,142,413 Charities: Animal Welfare 2008-09 14,054,053 7,232,697 Education Maintenance Allowance Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what assessment she has made of the effects of the recession on animal welfare charities. Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for [278124] Children, Schools and Families what discussions he has had with ministerial colleagues on eligibility criteria for Jim Fitzpatrick: I have been asked to reply. the education maintenance allowance; and if he will make a statement. [281222] The Charity Commission recently published its second economic survey of charities, which showed that just Mr. Coaker: The current eligibility criteria for education over half of the charities surveyed are feeling the impact maintenance allowance (EMA) are designed to encourage of the recession. 58 per cent. of those surveyed have learners from lower income households to participate in seen their incomes decrease, while 20 per cent. reported post compulsory learning. Evaluation of the EMA an increasing demand for the services that they offer. pilots has shown that EMA has led to increases in both DEFRA has not carried out a specific assessment of participation and attainment. I have not had any discussions the effects on animal welfare charities. However, the with ministerial colleagues about eligibility criteria for EMA. Government have pledged £42.5 million to help volunteers, charities and social enterprises in the difficult economic Schools climate. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many schools he CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES visited on official business in the last 12 months. Departmental Correspondence [272863]

Alistair Burt: To ask the Secretary of State for Ms Diana R. Johnson: My right hon. Friend the Children, Schools and Families what percentage of Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families letters to his Department from hon. Members’ visited approximately 92 schools over the period since parliamentary offices were answered within 30 days of May 2008 on official business. the date of receipt in each quarter from January 2008 Schools: Essex to March 2009. [280468] Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department’s correspondence Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for target is to answer correspondence from hon. Members Children, Schools and Families (1) how much funding within 15 working days of receipt. The following figures he has budgeted for the rebuilding of school buildings reflect the Department’s achievement against this target. in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point in each of the next five years; [280450] Percentage (2) how much funding his Department and its 2008 predecessor allocated for the rebuilding of school buildings in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point in each of January to March 88 the last five years. [280451] April to June 89 July to September 77 Mr. Coaker: The Department maintains records on a October to December 87 local authority rather than on a constituency basis. The following table sets out actual and planned allocations 2009 to Essex council for the period 2004-05 to 2010-11. No January to March 83 decision has as yet been taken regarding allocations beyond 2010-11. Departmental Energy £ million

Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004-05 63.2 Children, Schools and Families how much (a) 2005-06 55.6 electricity and (b) gas was used on his Department’s 2006-07 51.2 and its predecessor’s estate in each year from 2004-05 2007-08 52.6 to 2008-09. [280518] 507W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 508W

Homes and Communities Agency: Offices £ million 2008-09 78.4 Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009-10 82.3 Communities and Local Government how many offices 2010-11 83.5 are operated by the (a) Homes and Communities Agency and (b) Tenant Services Authority; and where In addition, Essex has a Building Schools for the each office is located. [280294] Future wave 4 project with indicative funding of £31 million grant and £169 million of PFI credits. Essex also has a John Healey: For details of the HCA’s regional offices planned BSF wave 6 project in the pipeline. I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby, South (Margaret Beckett) to the hon. Member for Peterborough COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (Mr. Jackson) on 12 March 2009, Official Report, columns 742-44W. In addition to these offices the HCA has two Fire Services: Finance corporate offices in London (Buckingham Palace road, and Maple House, Tottenham Court road). Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for For details of the TSA offices I refer the hon. Member Communities and Local Government what estimate he to the answer given to him my by right hon. Friend the has made of the (a) capital and (b) operating costs of Member for Derby, South on 24 April 2009, Official the FiReControl centre in (i) Durham, (ii) Warrington, Report, column 912W. (iii) Wakefield, (iv) Castle Donnington, (v) Housing: Low Incomes Wolverhampton, (vi) Cambridge, (vii) Taunton, (viii) Fareham and (ix) Morden in each of the next five Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for years. [281216] Communities and Local Government how many homes have been purchased under (a) HomeBuy Mr. Malik: Under current planning assumptions, Direct, (b) OwnHome, (c) OpenMarket HomeBuy, Fire and Rescue Services will begin using the regional (d) the First-Time Buyers Initiative, (e) MyChoice control centres from next year in phases until every HomeBuy, (f) New Build HomeBuy, (g) Social FRS in England is using the system. The forecast operating HomeBuy and (h) Rent to HomeBuy in each of the costs for the regional control centres prior to FRS last three months. [281457] ‘cutting over’ are set out in the following table: John Healey: I refer the hon. Member to the answers Regional control centre £ per year1 given to him by my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby, South (Margaret Beckett) on 21 May 2009, Warrington 2,445,864 Official Report, columns 1538-40W,5 May 2009, Official Durham 2,332,711 Report, column 133W, and the answer given by my right Wolverhampton 2,572,971 hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Mr. Wills) Wakefield 2,404,185 on 30 April 2009, Official Report, column 1440W, Castle Donnington 2,414,024 respectively. Cambridge 2,608,184 The following table shows the information for the Taunton 2,431,809 months of February, March and April which are not Fareham 2,608,963 covered by the previous answers. Morden 21,607,482 1 The costs in the table provide an indicative full year forecast 2009 operating costs for a financial year in advance of ’cut over’ occurring. February March April 2 Note, the Morden building is on track to achieve Practical Completion in February 2010 and this figure includes a substantial rent free HomeBuy Direct 1— 1— 1— period. Comparative costs, including full rent would be £3,371,972. Open Market HomeBuy 605 727 172 These figures include all accommodation costs, senior of which: management team and other local authority company costs. Ownhome 79 112 20 MyChoice HomeBuy 414 520 141 Homes and Communities Agency: Manpower New Build HomeBuy 677 3,112 128 Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Social HomeBuy 1— 1— 1— Communities and Local Government how many Rent to HomeBuy 27 972 63 people are employed by the (a) Homes and First Time Buyers 51 72 60 Communities Agency and (b) Tenant Services Initiative Authority. [280305] 1 Less than 5. Source: Homes and Communities Agency John Healey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for given to him by my right hon. Friend the Member for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Derby, South (Margaret Beckett) on 26 March 2009, answer of 11 June 2009, Official Report, column 996W, Official Report, column 720W. on housing: low incomes, what the average price of a In addition to the 789 FTE staff, the Homes and property purchased under the (a) Social HomeBuy, Communities Agency employ 115 staff on full-time (b) Right to Acquire and (c) Right to Buy scheme was contracts. in each region in each year since 1997. [281458] 509W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 510W

John Healey: I have placed a table in the House Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Library showing the average property prices of properties Communities and Local Government when he expects sold through Social Homebuy, Right to Acquire and to respond to the consultation on the South West Right to Buy, by year and region. Regional Spatial Strategy. [281220] These property price figures are based on the total property price, not the amount paid by the purchaser, Sarah McCarthy-Fry: I refer the hon. Members to who is entitled to a discount on the market value and the answer given on 16 June 2009, Official Report, may be purchasing only a share of the equity in the column 208W, to the hon. Member for Christchurch property. (Mr. Chope). The average property price is not shown for the Right to Acquire sales prior to 2001-02, due to a low number of sales in each year. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT

Preventing Violent Extremism Pathfinder Fund Libraries

Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Hesford: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government which projects Culture, Media and Sport when he plans to publish his received funding from each regional Government office Department’s strategy for library services; and if he through the Preventing Violent Extremism Pathfinder will make a statement. [280898] Fund in (a) 2006-07, (b) 2007-08 and (c) 2008-09. [278691] Barbara Follett: The Library Service Modernisation Review will be published in the autumn. Although this is later than previously announced the delay is to enable Mr. Malik: I refer the hon. Member to the letter sent the review to take into consideration the outcome of the by my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford (Hazel local inquiry into the provision of library services by Blears) to the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman) Wirral metropolitan borough council, which is expected on 24 January 2008 which provided details of the pathfinder to report in late July. projects in 2007-08—the first year that Communities and Local Government funded local authorities for this Theatre: Tickets work, A copy of the letter is in the Library of the House. Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, In 2008-09, the mechanism by which the Department Media and Sport what recent estimate his Department paid funds to local authorities for work to prevent made of the take-up rate of tickets under the free violent extremism changed, moving from a ‘pathfinder’ theatre initiative. [279448] approach to mainstreaming the funding through the Area Based Grant. My right hon. Friend the Member Barbara Follett: Data for the first quarter of A Night for Salford wrote to the hon. Member for Wycombe on Less Ordinary, the scheme which offers free theatre 2 April 2009 explaining that funding for preventing tickets to young people under 26, are being collated and violent extremism was paid to local authorities through will be published by mid July 2009. Early feedback from the non ring-fenced Area Based Grant in 2008-09. As participating venues and young theatre goers suggests with other funding streams provided through the Area the scheme is proving to be very popular. Based Grant, authorities are not required to provide any additional information other than that provided in their statutory accounts, statistical returns and Whole of Government Accounts returns. However, my right DEFENCE hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Mr. Khan) wrote to all authorities on 12 February to make clear that Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations despite the non ring-fenced nature of the funding continued close working between localities and central Government was critical in developing understanding of the impact Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence of this new policy area. how many improvised explosive device attacks there have been on British forces in Afghanistan in each Following a request from the hon. Member for Wycombe, month since January 2008. [279951] my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford undertook to provide information about groups in receipt of funding Mr. Bob Ainsworth: Records of incidents for the from local authorities in 2008-09 and subsequently whole of Afghanistan are not held centrally and could wrote to him on 1 May 2009. A copy of the letter has be provided only at disproportionate cost. been placed in the Library of the House. Data are more readily available for attacks within Regional Command (South), which includes the majority Regional Planning and Development: South West of UK forces deployed to Afghanistan. However, it is not possible, except at disproportionate cost, to identify Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for attacks directed only at British forces given the multinational Communities and Local Government when he plans to nature of forces operating in Regional Command (South). publish the Regional Spatial Strategy for the South Between 1 January 2008 and 31 May 2009 there were West; and what the reason is for the time taken to a total of 1,261 improvised explosive device attacks in publish the strategy. [281219] Regional Command (South). 511W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 512W

In order to meet the targets placed on all Government Improvised explosive device attacks Departments, MOD continues to identify opportunities January 2008 54 to make further energy savings on its estate. Work February 2008 27 includes undertaking energy audits on site, installing March 2008 51 SMART meters and wherever possible achieving excellent April 2008 32 rating in the Defence Related Environmental Assessment May 2008 31 Methodology or the British Research Establishment June 2008 14 Environmental Assessment Methodology for new builds July 2008 115 and major refurbishments. August 2008 120 Gurkhas: Pensions September 2008 106 October 2008 90 Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for November 2008 99 Defence what reports he has received on the provisions December 2008 104 made for the Gurkha Pension Scheme in the Sixth January 2009 83 Indian Pay Code; and if he will make a statement. February 2009 78 [280986] March 2009 85 April 2009 74 Mr. Kevan Jones: A report was produced on the May 2009 98 impact of the Indian Sixth Central Pay Commission on the Gurkha Pension Scheme on 2 March this year. The These figures do not include improvised explosive majority of rates of pensions in the Gurkha Pension device finds with no detonation or improvised explosive Scheme still compare favourably with the changed rates device false alarms. These data are based on information in the Indian scheme and no action is needed. A few derived from a number of sources and can only be an minor changes are being implemented, but the main estimate, not least because of the difficulties in ensuring area for change affects those pensioners aged 80 or over, a consistent interpretation of the basis of collating the most vulnerable group, who are to receive an increase statistics in a complex fast-moving multinational operational of at least 20 per cent. environment. Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: Pensions Defence what estimate he has made of the cost of up-rating the future pensions of Gurkha ex-servicemen Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for who retired prior to 1 July 1997 to the amount received Defence who was responsible for processing the by their UK equivalents. [280987] pension payments to service personnel from the Royal Irish Regiment who received overpayment through the Mr. Kevan Jones: Government policy is not to implement Special Capital Payment Scheme. [280642] improvements to pensions and similar benefits retrospectively, a policy that is applied across the public Mr. Kevan Jones: This was the responsibility of the sector in the United Kingdom. However, it has been former Armed Forces Personnel and Administration estimated that to pay retrospective pensions to Gurkhas Agency. In April 2007, the Armed Forces Personnel and would cost MOD £1.5 billion over 20 years. Administration Agency merged with the Veterans Agency to form the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency. Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what information his Department has on the Departmental Energy number of Gurkhas who left the Brigade prior to 1997 and who (a) live in poverty in Nepal and (b) receive Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for charitable assistance to meet their basic needs; and if Defence how much was spent on energy efficiency he will make a statement. [280988] measures for his Department’s estate in each year from 2004 to 2009; what assessment has been made of the Mr. Kevan Jones: There are around 36,000 retired effectiveness of that expenditure; and what plans he has Brigade of Gurkha veterans/veterans’ widows, most of for future energy efficiency measures. [280541] whom live in Nepal. Of these, some 24,000 are in receipt of Service pensions Mr. Kevan Jones: Use of energy efficiency measures, under the terms of the Gurkha Pension Scheme or the such as insulation, double glazing and cladding, form Armed Forces Pension Scheme. These provide a very an integral element of the routine maintenance and good standard of living in Nepal. The rate of pension management of the estate. A breakdown of the specific under the Gurkha Pension Scheme is kept under regular investment since 2004 to date is not held centrally and review and uplifted annually for inflation in Nepal, could be provided only at disproportionate cost. which ensures that the pension maintains its value in However, in addition to such routine investment, over Nepal over the years. (The annual value of Gurkha the last two years this Department has invested some Pension Scheme pensions that will be paid by the MOD £8.9 million in 51 projects. It is estimated that these in Nepal in 2009-10 is £54 million.) projects will result in financial savings of £2.8 million There are around 5,000 veterans/veterans’ widows and emission reductions of 21,600 tonnes of CO2. The who do not qualify for a Service Pension but who projects include Combined Heat and Power, biomass receive a Welfare Pension from the Gurkha Welfare boilers, ground source heat pumps, building management Scheme, which is the field arm of the independent systems and lighting projects. charity, the Gurkha Welfare Trust. The Welfare Pension 513W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 514W is paid from donations made to the Gurkha Welfare Demos Trust which allows them a sustainable lifestyle. The Ministry of Defence grants the Gurkha Welfare Trust Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy more than £1 million per year, which covers most of its and Climate Change whether his Department has any administrative costs in Nepal. contracts with the think-tank Demos. [279509] The remaining 7,000 personnel are veterans who did not serve for long enough to qualify for a Service Joan Ruddock: DECC has not entered into any contracts Pension and who are not yet old enough or needy with the think-tank Demos. enough to qualify for a Welfare Pension. On leaving the Brigade of Gurkhas, they would have received a gratuity but no pension. If these veterans fall on hard times they Energy: Conservation too become eligible for a Welfare Pension. All veterans receive free primary health care and Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for those without Gurkha Pension Scheme or AFPS payments Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has receive free secondary health care, all through the Gurkha made of progress on meeting the commitments under Welfare Scheme. the Energy Charter Protocol on Energy Efficiency and Related Environmental Aspects. [280359]

Joan Ruddock: Progress on meeting the commitments ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE under the Energy Charter Protocol on Energy Efficiency and Related Environmental Aspects is overseen by a Elections: Local Government working group of all members of the Energy Charter, including the UK, supported by the Energy Charter Bob Spink: To ask the hon. Member for South West Secretariat. The main mechanism for assessing progress Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the is through regular in-depth reviews of individual member Electoral Commission pursuant to the answer of states’ policy frameworks for energy efficiency together 3 June 2009, Official Report, column 477W, on with horizontal reviews across all the member states elections: local government, what steps the Electoral focused on specific policy issues. Commission takes to ensure that (a) their guidance is Copies of the reviews can be found at complied with and (b) their published performance www.encharter.org/index.php?id=20 standards are met by returning officers. [280674]

Mr. Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me Fuel Poverty that following publication in October 2009 of its first annual assessment of returning officers’ performance Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy against its published performance standards, the and Climate Change what recent assessment he has Commission intends to meet returning officers who made of progress in eradicating fuel poverty in have not met its standards to agree with them action vulnerable households by 2010. [279106] plans aimed at ensuring they will meet the standards in 2010. Joan Ruddock [holding answer 11 June 2009]: The The Commission does not currently have the power aim of the UK Government and the devolved to compel returning officers to comply with its guidance. Administrations, remains the eradication of fuel poverty in vulnerable households, in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, as far as reasonably practicable by 2010, with ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE the overall aim that as far as reasonably practicable no Cabinet: Glasgow household in the UK should live in fuel poverty by 2016 (2018 in Wales). Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (1) how many (a) special There is a wide range of policies and programmes in advisers and (b) officials of his Department place which contribute to tackling fuel poverty. This accompanied him to Glasgow for the Cabinet meeting includes Warm Front, CERT and the Decent Homes programme primarily addressing the energy efficiency on 16 April 2009; [273929] of households, Winter fuel and cold weather payments (2) what car journeys he took in attending the to increase household incomes. However, rising energy Cabinet meeting in Glasgow on 16 April 2009; [273930] prices have made achieving our fuel poverty targets (3) how much expenditure was incurred by his more difficult and the current mix of fuel poverty Department in respect of the Cabinet meeting in measures is unlikely to eradicate fuel poverty among the Glasgow on 16 April 2009; [273931] vulnerable by 2010. (4) what expenditure on (a) travel, (b) accommodation and (c) food (i) he and (ii) officials in Against this background, a review of our fuel poverty his Department incurred in connection with the policies is under way which will be examining whether existing measures to tackle fuel poverty could be made Cabinet meeting in Glasgow on 16 April 2009. [273932] more effective. It will also consider whether new policies Joan Ruddock: For information relating to the Cabinet should be introduced to help us make further progress and public engagement event held in Glasgow on 16 April towards our goals. The review is looking across all three I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by my right drivers of fuel poverty, and particularly the key issue of hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 3 June 2009, Official how we can more effectively identify and target assistance Report, column 487W. at vulnerable households. 515W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 516W

Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Joan Ruddock: The following table shows the average and Climate Change what assistance is being provided number of days between receipt of a Warm Front by his Department for people who, due to age or top-up payment and completion of installation. These illness, require fuel assistance for heating other than timescales are based upon the latest period for which during winter months. [279107] the data is available—1 June 2005 until 28 October 2008. Joan Ruddock [holding answer 11 June 2009]: The Installations by time band Government have a wide range of policies and programmes Average days in place which can help households to reduce their Owner Combined energy bills throughout the year. These include Warm Scheme year occupied Private rented average Front, CERT and the Decent Homes programme primarily addressing the energy efficiency of households through 2005-06 34 49 35 provision of a range of insulation and heating measures. 2006-07 32 48 33 The Government are also working with Ofgem and 2007-08 23 33 23 the energy suppliers to help the most vulnerable customers 2008-091 24 57 24 find the best tariff available for them. 1 To end October 2008 Information to help households save energy is available Wind Power through the Government’s Act on CO2 advice line run by the Energy Saving Trust. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Street Lighting: Carbon Emissions and Climate Change what proposals for wind farms in (a) the Thames estuary and (b) the English Channel his Department is considering; and if he will make a David Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [279038] Energy and Climate Change if he will discuss with the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government the potential effects of a reduction in Joan Ruddock: DECC does not have any offshore levels of street lighting on progress against carbon wind farm applications under consideration within the emission reduction targets. [264158] Thames estuary or English channel areas. On 10 December 2007, the then Secretary of State for Joan Ruddock [holding answer 17 March 2009]: My Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform commissioned right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has no plans for a strategic environmental assessment (SEA) on a draft such discussions. Decisions on street lighting levels are plan for up to an additional 25 GW (installed capacity) a matter for local authorities. They are required to of new offshore wind farms, in addition to 8 GW report on their progress in reducing carbon emissions in already in planning. This draft plan applies to all English the local authority performance framework. Local and Welsh territorial waters and the renewable energy authorities have a broad range of means for reducing zone (UK waters outside 12 nautical miles).The assessment emissions from their own estates and from their has been subject to a public consultation and a decision communities. is expected in the summer. Salix Finance, funded by DECC through the Carbon Following this decision, the Crown Estate, as landowner Trust, helps with street lighting projects. So far Salix of the sea, can proceed with its offshore wind farm Finance has made approximately £900,000 available in leasing programme. The Crown Estate is currently the form of match-funded interest free loans for street considering proposals within nine indicative round 3 lighting projects, which are estimated to deliver annual development zones, including two zones in the English carbon savings of 1,875 tCO2. channel. DECC is working to include street lighting in the Further details on the Crown Estate round 3 process Carbon Reduction Commitment. This will provide an and a map of indicative areas of potential for offshore incentive for local authorities to improve the energy wind farm development are available at: efficiency of street lights. DECC is working closely with http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/round3 Communities and Local Government to develop the policy, in so far as it relates to local authorities. Any proposals that come forward for specific developments under round 3 will subsequently be assessed The Government have also negotiated an implementing by the relevant competent authority through the planning measure on street lighting under the Framework Directive process to ensure they are located in appropriate places. for the Eco-design of Energy-using Products. This is expected to significantly reduce carbon dioxide emissions and bring cost savings. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Warm Front Scheme Agriculture: Subsidies Greg Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the average time has been between the payment of a top-up fee and the Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for completion of installation work in cases where Warm Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when he expects Front installations have required a householder top-up the payment by EU member states of single farm to be paid in each year since the introduction of payments based on historic production levels to end. top-ups to the scheme. [255873] [280390] 517W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 518W

Jim Fitzpatrick: The CAP Health Check agreed last Easybee Products November introduced the option for member states to Essex Beekeepers’ Association move from a historic to flat rate model of the single Furness Beekeepers’ Association payment scheme. It is too early to gauge the extent to Gloucestershire Beekeepers’ Association which this option will be taken up in practice. However, Great Witley Beekeepers’ Association the member states concerned will be aware that Commissioner Fisher-Boel has signalled that the Harrogate and Ripon Beekeepers Commission will propose that optionality be converted Kendal and S. Westmorland Beekeepers’ Association to compulsion when the scheme is next reviewed. Kent Beekeepers’ Association Leicestershire and Rutland Beekeepers’ Association Badgers London Beekeepers Association Manchester and District Beekeepers’ Association Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Meon Valley Beekeepers Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will make it Mid-Bucks Beekeepers’ Association his policy to provide a service for the collection and disposal of badger carcases found (a) on land adjacent National Farmers’ Union to individual households and (b) in water courses. Newcastle and District Beekeepers’ Association [280218] Northamptonshire Beekeepers’ Association Northumberland Beekeepers’ Association Jim Fitzpatrick: DEFRA has no plans to provide a Southport and Formby Beekeepers service of this nature. Where badger carcases are found Surrey Beekeepers’ Association on private land, responsibility for their collection and Thurrock Beekeepers’ Association disposal rests with owner/occupiers. Owner/occupiers of property on which there are badger carcases are West Sussex Beekeepers’ Association advised to contact their local authority for advice on Wiltshire Beekeepers’ Association appropriate disposal methods. Local authorities have Women’s Food and Farming Union responsibility for collection and disposal from public BASF plc grounds and non-trunk roads, while the Highways Agency Belchim Crop Protection UK has responsibility for removal from trunk roads. The Biological Crop Protection Ltd. Environment Agency will consider taking action to Crop Protection Association remove carcases from water courses if they are causing pollution or flood risk. Exosect Ltd. Koppert UK Ltd. Bees: Research National Bee Supplies National Office of Animal Health Mr. Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for Poth Hill and Co. Ltd. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which (a) Syngenta Bioline Ltd. organisations and (b) individuals were consulted Thornes Beehives during the development of his Department’s bee health Vita (Europe) Ltd. research Rationale, Objectives, Appraisal, Monitoring BBKA News and Evaluation statement. [280723] Bee Craft Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 18 June 2009]: DEFRA’s Bicton College bee health research Rationale, Objectives, Appraisal, Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council Monitoring and Evaluation statement (ROAME) was C B Dennis British Beekeepers Research Trust included as part of the public consultation on the Country Smallholding Magazine Healthy Bees plan which commenced on 8 April 2008 Hadlow College and closed on 29 August 2008. The consultation documents Horticulture Research International were published on the DEFRA website and were sent to the following organisations: International Bee Research Association Marine Biological Association of the UK Avon Beekeepers’ Association Myerscough College Bedfordshire Beekeepers’ Association National Diploma in Beekeeping Bee Diseases Insurance Ltd. Natural Environment Research Council Bee Farmers’ Association Otley College Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders Association Rothamsted Research British Beekeepers’ Association British Wax Refining Co. Ltd. Royal Agricultural Society of England Buckingham Beekeepers’ Association Smallholder Magazine Central Association of Beekeepers Honey Association Chalfonts Beekeepers’ Society Honey Importers and Packers Association Chesterfield Beekeepers’ Association Consumers’ Association Commercial Queen Rearers’ Association Of The UK Food and Drink Federation Council of National Beekeeping Associations in the UK Fresh Produce Consortium Devon Beekeepers’ Association First Honey Co-Operative Durham Beekeepers’ Association Health Food Manufactures Association 519W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 520W

British Tomato Growers’ Association Ministers have been in discussions with senior industry Commercial Horticultural Association leaders and officials remain in close contact with the Cucumber Growers’ Association Receivers to ensure that those who might need to access Horticultural Development Council these schemes know how to do so. Horticultural Trades Association Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Joint Nature Conservation Committee Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is Local Authorities Coordinators of Regulatory Services taking to assist farmers affected by Dairy Farmers of Local Government Association Britain being taken into receivership. [281387] National Association of Agricultural Contractors Natural England Jim Fitzpatrick: Publicly-funded schemes are available: Sitpro Ltd. through Business Link to assist SMEs (Small and Medium Enterprises); HMRC’s Business Payment Support Service The consultation documents were also sent to 31 bee may also enable businesses in difficulties to defer their importers and three academics. Individual information tax commitments; and the Enterprise Finance Guarantee cannot be disclosed due to the Data Protection Act. 86 Scheme. responses were received. DEFRA hosted a meeting on 17 June with the Receivers The ROAME statement and the Evidence and (PricewaterhouseCoopers), Dairy Farmers of Britain Innovation strategy for bee health are published on the Members Council and many other parties to continue DEFRA website. co-ordinated efforts and work towards our common goal of minimising the impacts on all those affected. Mr. Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what percentage Fisheries of Government funding for research related to the honey bee was allocated to (a) the National Bee Unit Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for and (b) higher education institutions in each of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will seek five financial years to 2007-08. [280724] derogations to enable inshore fishermen to continue fishing when their fish merchants are unable to report Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 18 June 2009]: The landing details within the time required. [280662] allocations by percentage of DEFRA funding for honey bee health in each of the five financial years prior to Huw Irranca-Davies: I refer the hon. Member to the 2007-08 are as follows: answer I gave on 18 June 2009, Official Report, columns 423-24W. Percentage Rothamsted Litter Abatement Orders NBU Research Warwick-HRI1

2003-04 10.3 45.5 44.2 Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004-05 7 41 52 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many litter 2005-06 0 17.8 82.2 abatement notices have been issued by each local 2006-07 100 0 0 authority in each of the last five years. [280266] 2007-08 100 0 0 1 Horticulture Research International was integrated with the university Jim Fitzpatrick: DEFRA does not collect figures on of Warwick on 1 April 2004 to form Warwick-HRI. the number of litter abatement notices issued by local Dairy Farming authorities; this information is collected by Keep Britain Tidy. Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Newts Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will make it his policy to provide assistance to dairy farmers Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State financially affected by the taking into receivership of for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what his Dairy Farmers of Britain. [280391] most recent estimate is of the UK population of (a) great crested newts, (b) each other endangered species Jim Fitzpatrick: I am deeply concerned and saddened of newt and (c) each endangered species of bat; from by the situation facing farming members and other what baselines changes in the population of each such employees of Dairy Farmers of Britain, following species is measured; and what criteria would have to be the announcement to call in the Receivers fulfilled for each such species to be removed from the (PricewaterhouseCoopers) on 3 June. endangered species list. [279198] Publicly-funded schemes such as those available through Business Link are available to assist SMEs (small and Huw Irranca-Davies: The following table provides the medium enterprises) that find themselves in difficulties. latest estimates of UK populations for the bats and Farmers who are in need of business advice should newt on the UK list of priority species and habitats. contact Business Link in their region. HMRC’s Business Population estimates have been divided into three Payment Support Service is also available for businesses components: an actual number of individuals (or which are finding it difficult to meet their tax commitments populations in the case of the newt), the range which for the sorts of reasons faced by the farmers of Dairy the species occupies within the UK and the population Farmers of Britain. trend. 521W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 522W

Species UK population1 Date Range2 Date Trend3 Date

Barbastelle bat 86 (10km sq.) 2008 80,939 km2 1980-2006 Unknown 2008 Bechstein’s bat 36 (10km sq.) 2008 31,850 km2 1980-2006 Unknown 2008 Noctule 450,000 1995 158,299 km2 1980-2006 No statistically 1997-2007 (individuals) significant change Soprano pipistrelle 51,500,000 1995 227,090 km2 1990-2006 Stable 1997-2007 (individuals) Brown long-eared bat 6245,000 1995 234,142 km2 1980-2006 Stable 1997-2007 (individuals) Greater horseshoe bat 75,689 2005 50,543 km2 1990-2006 Increase 1997-2007 (individuals) Lesser horseshoe bat 850,000 2002 58,483 km2 1990-2006 Increase 1997-2007 (individuals) Great crested newt 971,000 (local 2006 157,749 km2 1980-2006 Declining (slowing) 2008 populations) 1 Biodiversity Action Reporting System (2008) 2 Joint Nature Conservation Committee (2007). The report detailing the UK approach can be found here: http://www.jncc.gov.uk/pdf/FCS2007_ukapproach.pdf 3 Biodiversity Action Reporting System (2008). Where available, bat trends are provided by the National Bat Monitoring Programme (Bat Conservation Trust, 2008) 4 Based on Harris (1995) 5 Based on Harris (1995) 6 Based on Harris (1995) 7 Population estimate is 5,689 (adults counted at 21 breeding sites) * 2.2 = 12518 (Biodiversity Action Reporting System 2008) 8 Pers. comm. Schofield (2008). The rationale for this figure is based on an approximate doubling of the latest statistically valid figure for Wales (28,000; Matthews & Halliwell, 2008) due to the fact that the total area of the range in England and Wales being roughly equal. (Biodiversity Action Reporting System 2008) 9 JNCC (2007)

The trends are not measured against a baseline. Baseline Ofwat, as the independent economic regulator for the information is not relevant to de-listing as the viability water industry, is required to have regard to this guidance. of the population would be considered rather than a United Utilities recognised that its switch to site area baseline value to which current population levels would charging was not in line with this guidance, or Ofwat’s be compared. more detailed 2003 guidance to water companies. The criteria for delisting any species from the UK list Consequently United Utilities introduced a moratorium of priority species is: on its surface water drainage charges for 2009-10 for Long-term or underlying decline has been halted and sufficient faith buildings, community amateur sports clubs (and recovery achieved. This represents compliance with the European similar clubs) and properties owned by Scout and Guide 2010 target to halt the loss of biodiversity. associations. This saw surface water drainage charges All criteria thresholds for selecting UK priority species have for these customers revert to 2008-09 levels. been exceeded. United Utilities is currently working on a revised Sufficient recovery has been undertaken to remove the risk of scheme of charges for 2010-11 and beyond. Ministers re-selection and immediate deterioration of state. are keeping the situation under review. Some species are conservation dependant and will always require some conservation action even when desired state has been achieved. Where there is a realistic risk that removing a conservation dependant species from the UK list of priority FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE species will result in the action or protection that the species is dependent upon coming to a halt, then the species will be identified Afghanistan: Detainees as being ‘BAP dependent’ and will remain on the UK list of priority species until this is no longer the case, even if the other success criteria have been met. Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether the Bermudan Water Charges: Voluntary Organisations Government has held discussions with the Government of the United States on plans to accept further former detainees from Guantánamo Bay; and if he will make a Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [280864] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what effect he expects the guidance he plans to issue to Ofwat on David Miliband: The Government of Bermuda have charges to voluntary, religious and sporting not-for- confirmed that they have not discussed with the profit organisations for surface water drainage to have Government of the United States any plans to accept on charges to the organisations concerned. [281221] more former detainees from Guantanamo Bay.

Huw Irranca-Davies: Guidance was issued by the BBC External Services: Finance then Secretary of State for the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions in 2000. This Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign states that surface water drainage charges for non-household and Commonwealth Affairs how much his Department customers should be set in a way that is sensitive to the has spent on the BBC World Service in each of the last actual use of the service by different types of premises. five years. [281415] 523W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 524W

Chris Bryant: The BBC World Service has received Departmental Energy the following grant in aid funding for the last five financial years Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for £ million Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much (a) electricity and (b) gas was used (i) on his Department’s 2008-09 265 estate and (ii) by his Department’s agencies in each year 2007-08 255 from 2004-05 to 2008-09. [280525] 2006-07 239.5 2005-06 239 Chris Bryant: The Executive Agency, FCO Services 2004-05 225 (FCOS) shares buildings with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) in the UK and therefore it is not possible to separate their gas and electricity Bosnia and Herzegovina: Politics and Government usage. Figures for our other Executive Agency, Wilton Park, are given separately when known. Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he Kilowatt hours has had with his Swedish counterpart on the closure of FCO/FCOS Wilton Park the Office of the High Representative in Bosnia- Electricity Gas Electricity Gas Herzegovina; and if he will make a statement. [279701] 2004-05 19,457,515 3,878,744 411,676 406,431

David Miliband: I maintain a regular dialogue with 2005-06 20,856,930 4,732,676 439,213 423,272 Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt. I have had a number of discussions with Foreign Minister Bildt on the question of the transition from the Office of the 2006-07 22,578,615 1,341,891 451,972 402,785 High Representative in Bosnia and Herzegovina to EU Special Representative once the ‘5+2’ objectives and 2007-08 22,578,615 1,153,023 22,677,887 419,166 conditions set by the Peace Implementation Council Steering Board are met. I have been clear on the 2008-09 29,167,150 1,227,509 1— 1— Government’s view that transition can only take place 1 The figure for Wilton Park will not be known until the end of July once the conditions are met. 2009.

Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Carbon Emissions Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much was spent on energy efficiency measures for his Mr. Paice: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Department’s estate in each year from 2004 to 2009; and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made what assessment has been made of the effectiveness of of the volume of carbon dioxide emissions from offices that expenditure; and what plans he has for future in his Department in (a) 2006-07 and (b) 2007-08 (i) energy efficiency measures. [280536] in total and (ii) per full-time equivalent member of staff. [280931] Chris Bryant: It is not possible to categorise goods and services purchased for energy efficiency reasons Chris Bryant: In 2006-07 the total carbon emissions without incurring disproportionate costs. The Foreign for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office UK estate and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has undertaken some was 14,430 tonnes of CO2 emissions (CO2e) equating to measures for energy efficient reasons, such as upgrading 3.8 tonnes of CO2e per full-time equivalent member of lighting systems and lowering the office heating temperature. staff (FTE). Other measures have sustainable benefits but were In 2007-08 total carbon emissions were 14,502 tonnes implemented in response to a range of drivers including of CO2e, equating to 3.8 tonnes of CO2e per FTE. health and safety and estate rationalisation, for example the installation of more efficient hand dryers and the Mr. Paice: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign demolition of energy inefficient modular cabins. Energy and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made efficiency is monitored though the Environmental of the volume of carbon dioxide emissions arising from Management Plan which sets out the actions required road-based transport used for administrative to meet the Sustainable Operations in the Government operations by his Department in (a) 2006-07 and (b) Estate targets. Future energy efficiency measures include 2007-08 (i) in total and (ii) per full-time equivalent installing more water efficient fittings, introducing ground member of staff. [281041] source heat pumps, and putting in smart metering. Sustainability is one of the considerations in the business case for developments on the FCO estate. Chris Bryant: In 2006-07 total carbon emissions for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office arising from road-based transport within the UK were 332 tonnes of Mr. Paice: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign CO2 emissions (CO2e) equating to 0.09 tonnes of CO2e and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made per full-time equivalent member of staff (FTE). In of the energy consumed per full-time equivalent 2007-08 total emissions were 260 tonnes of CO2e equating member of staff in his Department in (a) 2006-07 and to 0.07 tonnes per FTE. (b) 2007-08. [280932] 525W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 526W

Chris Bryant: For 2006-07 total energy consumption Peru: Ethnic Groups for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s UK estate was 33,981,361 kilowatt hours (kWh), equating to 8,879 kWh per full-time equivalent member of staff (FTE). In Colin Burgon: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 total consumption was 29,654,679 kWh equating Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he to 7,767 kWh/FTE. has received on recent incidents of violence in Peru which resulted in the deaths of 54 people from Departmental Waste indigenous groups during an operation by the national police in that country. [281385] Mr. Paice: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made Chris Bryant: Our embassy in Lima provided reports of the amount of waste arising from his Department in on protests in Peru’s Amazon over land use legislation, (a) 2006-07 and (b) 2007-08 (i) in total and (ii) per which turned violent on 5 June 2009. EU heads of full-time equivalent member of staff. [281040] mission in Lima issued the following statement on 9 June 2009 following this tragic development: Chris Bryant: In 2006-07 total waste arising from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s UK estate was “The EU profoundly regrets the tragic events of recent days in the Peruvian Amazon, in particular the loss of human lives, 1,797 tonnes, equating to 0.47 tonnes per full-time including more than 20 members of the National Police of Peru equivalent member of staff (FTE). The 2007-08 total and an as yet undetermined number of civilians. The EU sends its was 1,212 tonnes, equating to 0.32 tonnes per FTE. condolences to the government and people of Peru and to the families of all the victims. The EU calls for restraint to avoid Departmental Water further violence and for a peaceful and lasting solution to the situation through dialogue.” Mr. Paice: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign The Peruvian Ombudsman has given the number of and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made confirmed deaths resulting from the violence on 5 and of water consumption on his Department’s office 6 June 2009 as 33. 23 of these were members of the estate in (a) 2005-06 and (b) 2006-07, (i) in total and police force and 10 were civilians, including four members (ii) per full-time equivalent member of staff. [280930] of indigenous communities. Chris Bryant: In 2005-06 the total water usage for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office UK office estate Colin Burgon: To ask the Secretary of State for was 55,153 cubic metres equating to 13.7 cubic metres Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make per full-time equivalent member of staff (FTE). In representations to the government of Peru on the 2006-07 total water usage for the UK office estate was establishment of an independent investigation into the 62,409 cubic metres equating to 16.3 per FTE. recent deaths of indigenous people during incidents of violence in Peru. [281386] Gibraltar: Politics and Government Chris Bryant: Since the outbreak of violence on 5 June Adam Price: To ask the Secretary of State for we have urged all sides to avoid further violence and Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is resolve the dispute through dialogue. This has included on the inclusion of Gibraltar on the UN’s list of contacts between our ambassador to Peru together with territories in the process of decolonisation. [280231] EU colleagues and the Peruvian Foreign Minister and between our director for the Americas and the Peruvian Chris Bryant: The Government believe Gibraltar should ambassador to the UK. We are pleased that a formal not be included on the UN list of non self-governing dialogue mechanism has now been established between territories. The 2006 Gibraltar Constitution provides the Government and indigenous leaders. We welcome for a modern and mature relationship between Gibraltar the Peruvian Government’s invitation to the United and the UK, and Her Majesty’s Government regrets Nations Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human that the UN Committee of 24’s outdated criteria fail to Rights and Fundamental Freedoms of Indigenous People take this into account. The Government do not consider to investigate these events and the decision by the that any of their Overseas Territories should remain on Peruvian Congress to appoint a multiparty Congressional the UN list. Commission to carry out its own investigation. Hezbollah Sri Lanka: EU External Trade Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what contacts (a) his Department and (b) HM Ambassador to Lebanon Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for plan to have with members of Hezbollah’s political Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make it wing. [277373] his policy to seek an end to the preferred trading arrangements which exist between the EU and Mr. Ivan Lewis: Our objective with Hezbollah remains Sri Lanka. [280291] unchanged: to urge them to reject violence and play a constructive, democratic and peaceful role in Lebanese politics, in line with UN Security Council Resolutions. Mr. Michael Foster: I have been asked to reply. We believe that occasional and carefully considered I refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the contacts with Hezbollah’s politicians, including its MPs, hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom will on occasions advance this objective. Brake) on 1 June 2009, Official Report, column 75W. 527W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 528W

HEALTH In the last 12 months, the following funding has been awarded to organisations to raise awareness of male cancers specifically at a national level: Accidents: Children As part of the National Awareness and Early Diagnosis Initiative’s promoting earlier presentation work stream, the Department and the Football Foundation are joint funding the Ahead of the Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Game programme. Ahead of the Game is a one-year pilot programme how many children were admitted to hospital as a that will use the appeal of football to raise awareness of lung, result of an accident in school in each month of the bowel and prostate cancers in men aged 55 and over. The Department last five years; and if he will make a statement. [280449] has awarded £50,000 for 2009-10, which builds on the £36,000 awarded for this purpose in 2008-09. Ms Diana R. Johnson: I have been asked to reply. The Men’s Health Forum has been awarded funding of £45,000 The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has provided for 2009-10 for its project on increasing bowel screening uptake in men. This forms part of the £135,000 that the charity has received the information in the following table. for this purpose over the past three years. In addition, the Men’s The table records figures for Great Britain. No fatal Health Forum will receive a one year grant of £26,000 in 2009-10 injuries were reported in this period. to update its Mini Manual for Men’s Cancer. Non-fatal injuries to pupils/students1 to age 18, reported to all enforcing authorities2, 2003-04 to 2007-083,4 Colorectal Cancer: Screening Year 4 Month 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for January 5 12 15 12 19 Health what assessment he has made of the February 11 8 15 13 9 effectiveness of the NHS bowel cancer screening March 10 6 27 17 16 programme; and if he will assess the merits of April 5 8 8 18 5 extending it to people between the ages of 50 and 59 May 2 9 9 17 9 years old. [281315] June76567 July35147Ann Keen: We are currently rolling out the NHS August 1111 -bowel screening programme across England. Roll-out September 8 5 7 13 13 commenced in April 2006 and full roll-out across the October 8 11 5 18 19 country is on course to be completed by the end of November 9 13 14 17 18 2009. When fully implemented, around two million men December 8 12 11 11 16 and women will be screened, and around 3,000 cases of Total 77 96 118 147 138 bowel cancer detected every year. Grand total 576 As at 4 May 2009, 3,411,763 testing kits had been 1 Identified by Standard Occupational Classification (SOC2000) code 0002 ‘Student’. sent out with 1,955,831 kits having been returned; there 2 Injuries are reported and defined under the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases had been 34,455 positive results with 3,063 cancers and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations (RIDDOR) 1995. These include having been detected; and 11,474 patients had polyps injuries to employees, self-employed people and members of the public (including students). The information available under RIDDOR 95 includes two categories removed, which might have progressed to bowel cancer. of severity for members of the public: fatal injuries and non-fatal injuries that From 2010, the NHS bowel cancer screening programme cause a person to be taken from the site of the accident to hospital. 3,4 The annual basis is the planning year 1 April to 31 March. Statistics for will be extended to men and women aged 70 to 75. By planning year 2007/08 are currently provisional. the end of 2010, we will assess whether or not to extend the programme to people in their 50s. Technical issues relating to the coding of incidents in the HSE’s database mean that there are some data Based on the promising results of a large Cancer discontinuities. A change during 2003-04 caused an UK-funded clinical trial on the use of flexible artificial fall in that year in the number of injury reports sigmoidoscopy (FS) in bowel screening, we are funding coded to education and that affects the data series to a £300,000 demonstration study of screening by FS 2006-07. A subsequent adjustment to the database from being run by St. Mark’s Hospital, London. The pilot is the start of 2007-08—to bring about a closer alignment inviting men and women aged 58 to be screened, and it with data prior to 2003-04—has introduced a further is expected to report later in 2009. The results from the discontinuity. HSE statisticians are working to redress FS pilot will be considered when we assess whether or these known issues. not to extend the bowel screening programme to people in their 50s.

Cancer: Males Departmental Energy

Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for how much his Department plans to spend on Health how much (a) electricity and (b) gas was used increasing awareness of cancers affecting men; and if (i) on his Department’s estate and (ii) by his he will make a statement. [280671] Department’s agencies in each year from 2004-05 to 2008-09. [280510] Ann Keen: Work to improve cancer symptom awareness and encourage earlier presentation across all cancers, Phil Hope: The Department and its executive agencies including male cancers, is being taken forward through NHS Purchasing and Supply Agency (PASA) and the National Awareness and Early Diagnosis Initiative, Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency formally launched in November 2008. (MHRA) have used the following amounts: 529W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 530W

Usage (KWh) Percentage change (+/-) Department NHS PASA MHRA 2007-08 2006-07

Electricity Gas/fuel oil -15 -16 2004-05 14,220,000 580,332 n/a Electricity +24 +29 2005-06 13,454,000 640,780 n/a Total +9 +12 2006-07 12,340,000 670,197 n/a We have been working with the Carbon Trust over 2007-08 12,065,000 718,863 1,672,164 the past two years to identify energy saving measures, 2008-09 12,105,000 724,524 1,697,914 and this has been reflected in an improvement in our performance on energy efficiency in 2007-08, compared Gas with 2006-07. We have a number of further initiatives 2004-05 5,604,000 442,246 n/a planned, which should improve these figures further in 2005-06 4,636,000 500,183 n/a the coming year. This includes upgrading our building 2006-07 3,835,000 426,828 n/a management systems and improving the automatic lighting 2007-08 4,176,000 521,146 n/a systems in our core London estate and the replacement 2008-09 4,575,000 450,524 n/a of boiler plant in two of these buildings. Domestic Violence The MHRA are unable to provide electricity information for 2004-07 as the information as the data are not Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Health available from their landlord. what the (a) full terms of reference are and (b) membership is of the health taskforce to spot signs of These figures are based on actual usage of fuel over violence against women announced on 14 May 2009. the period and differ slightly from the figures submitted [281460] as part of the Sustainable Development in Government (SDiG) reporting process, as some buildings were excluded Ann Keen: This is currently under consideration. from this exercise. SDiG figures are also weather corrected data. Malnutrition: Screening The information in this answer covers the Department’s central administrative estate of Richmond House, Mr. Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for Wellington House and Skipton House. The Department Health what steps his Department has taken to is a minor occupier in New Kings Beam House promote incentives for nutritional screening in (a) (HM Revenue and Customs) and Quarry House in payment by results and (b) community tariff payments Leeds (Department of Work and Pensions) and the in primary care. [280494] data for these sites are not available to us. Reductions in 2005-06 and 2006-07 are due to the closure of two Mr. Mike O’Brien: No steps have been taken by the London buildings—Eileen House and Hannibal House. Department to promote incentives for nutritional screening in the payment by results national tariff or in community The data supplied for NHS PASA relate to energy services. used at their Reading, Chester and Sheffield sites. There are no specific admitted patient care or outpatient attendance tariffs for nutritional screening, but the costs of this activity are captured in the reference costs which Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for are collected from national health service organisations, Health how much was spent on energy efficiency and which inform tariff prices. Most community services measures for his Department’s estate in each year from are outside the scope of payment by results and are 2004 to 2009; what assessment has been made of the funded through block contracts. effectiveness of that expenditure; and what plans he has for future energy efficiency measures. [280544] Measles: Vaccination

Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Phil Hope: The Department is unable to identify how what proportion of children aged six years and under much has been spent specifically on energy efficiency in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point have been inoculated measures as these have been an integral part of our against measles. [280455] ongoing building maintenance work. This Department supports and aims to meet the Gillian Merron: Information of the percentage of Government’s targets to reduce carbon emissions and children immunised against measles, mumps and rubella improve the energy efficiency of the Government estate. by their fifth birthday by primary care trust is contained While we have increased the efficiency (measured as in NHS Immunisation Statistics, England 2007-08, which consumption per m2) of our gas usage, our energy has already been placed in the Library. Information for consumption has increased over the period, due largely the hon. Member’s constituency is not available. to our policy of closing buildings and concentrating Midwives more staff in our remaining estate. The changes in energy efficiency of our buildings Harry Cohen: To ask the Secretary of State for (measured in kWh per m2) since 1999-2000, which is the Health how many midwifery training places were earliest year for which figures are available, are: commissioned for the 2008-09 academic year. [281125] 531W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 532W

Ann Keen: Strategic health authorities are responsible of the good practice. The NPSA has also worked actively for allocating resources from education and training with regulators on the development of inspection criteria funding to support local initiatives for their staff. The and guidance for nutrition. latest figures available are for 2007-08, the figures for The NPSA has held five workshops between January 2008-09 are still being collated and validated. and March 2009 to engage with primary care organisations and supports the delivery of the Royal College of Nursing Actual Planned “Nutrition Now” workshops. The NPSA has recently Degree 1,307 1,199 part-funded the development of an e-based learning Diploma 412 474 programme related to dysphagia management in partnership 18-month diploma 352 442 with the NHS Core Learning Unit. This includes working Total 2,071 2,115 with the food industry to improve the quality of texture- modified meals. MRSA: Milton Keynes In May 2009 the NPSA published an overview of what has been learnt from an analysis of nutrition-related patient safety incidents reported as occurring in England Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for during 2006 and 2007. Data for 2008 are currently Health how many cases of MRSA infection in Milton under review. Keynes have been reported to his Department in each year since 1997. [280876] Mr. Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for Ann Keen: Since April 2001, all acute national health Health what estimate his Department has made of the service trusts in England are obliged to report all cases proportion of GPs who screen patients upon their first of bloodstream infections caused by methicillin-resistant registration in line with the recommendations of the Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence’s guidelines on Nutrition Support in Adults. [280490] These data comprise all specimens processed by NHS acute trust laboratories, not just those from in-patients and include infections acquired in hospital and elsewhere. Gillian Merron: This information is not held centrally. These data are only available by financial year. Milton Keynes General Hospital NHS Trust Mr. Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for April to March each year Number of cases of bloodstream Health what discussions his Department has had with infections caused by MRSA the UK Commission for Employment and Skills on inclusion of nutrition-related training in (a) 2001-02 9 undergraduate and (b) postgraduate courses for health 2002-03 13 professionals. [280491] 2003-04 7 2004-05 11 Ann Keen: The Department is actively working with 2005-06 23 the Royal Colleges on the further development of their 2006-07 19 medical specialties curricula to cover public health content, 2007-08 11 inclusive of lifestyle determinants of health and wellbeing. 2008-09 14 National health service staff knowledge and development related to public health is being furthered through a Nutrition: Health Services modular approach to learning by the NHS Core Learning Unit. Modules on public health are accessible through Mr. Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for induction training and professional development. Health what steps the National Patient Safety Agency is taking to improve (a) patient nutrition and (b) Strokes: Milton Keynes reporting of nutrition-related incidents involving patients. [280486] Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Ann Keen: The National Patient Safety Agency (NPSA) Health how many cases of stroke there were in (a) is working with a range of stakeholders including the males and (b) females in each age group in Milton Department, Welsh Assembly Government, Royal Colleges, Keynes in each year since 1999. [280875] professional organisations, and industry to improve patient nutrition. Ann Keen: The following table and notes show how In April 2009, the NPSA launched the “10 Key many finished admission episodes for stroke in Milton Characteristics of Good Nutritional Care” toolkit to Keynes primary care trust broken down by age group assist health and social care providers in the implementation and sex for the years 1999-2000 to 2007-08.

Count of finished admission episodes for a primary diagnosis of stroke1 in Milton Keynes PCT, broken down by age group and sex, for the years 1999-2000 to 2007-08. Activity in English NHS hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector Sex Age group 2007-08 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04 2002-03 2001-02 2000-01 1999-2000

Male 0-9*00***00 0 10-190*00000* * 20-29*****0*0 0 30-39****8*** * 533W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 534W

Count of finished admission episodes for a primary diagnosis of stroke1 in Milton Keynes PCT, broken down by age group and sex, for the years 1999-2000 to 2007-08. Activity in English NHS hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector Sex Age group 2007-08 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04 2002-03 2001-02 2000-01 1999-2000

40-49 9 * 13 17 12 15 13 6 6 50-59 13 10 21 29 27 28 17 8 37 60-69 34 12 35 19 38 29 33 28 16 70-7917*36313638502643 80-89 30 12 30 41 34 33 34 26 21 90+****96** 0 Total male 114 49 144 147 173 157 155 106 127

Female 0-9000*0000 * 10-19000***0* 0 20-29*0***00* 0 30-39***9**** * 40-49 7 * * 12 8 11 10 12 * 50-59 17 8 17 11 10 12 * 12 10 60-6913824202821131413 70-7932745292634564239 80-89 49 21 43 52 43 69 79 50 51 90+ 18 * 27 9 13 21 10 14 51 Total female 140 54 169 147 138 172 178 149 130 Total 254 103 313 294 311 329 333 255 257 Notes: Ungrossed data Figures have not been adjusted for shortfalls in data (i.e. the data are ungrossed). Finished admission episodes A finished admission episode is the first period of inpatient care under one consultant within one health care provider. Finished admission episodes are counted against the year in which the admission episode finishes. Admissions do not represent the number of inpatients, as a person may have more than one admission within the year. This table does not provide a total number of cases of stroke since those dying before reaching hospital or not being admitted to hospital will not be counted. As well as this, anyone suffering from a stroke whilst already admitted to hospital will not be included in the count. Primary diagnosis The primary diagnosis is the first of up to 20 (14 from 2002-03 to 2006-07 and seven prior to 2002-03) diagnosis fields in the Hospital Episode Statistics (HES) data set and provides the main reason why the patient was admitted to hospital. 1 The following ICD-10 codes have been used: 160 Subarachnoid haemorrhage 161 Intracerebral haemorrhage 162 Other nontraumatic intracranial haemorrhage 163 Cerebral infarction 164 Stroke, not specified as haemorrhage or infarction Data quality HES are compiled from data sent by more than 300 NHS trusts and primary care trusts (PCTs) in England. Data is also received from a number of independent sector organisations for activity commissioned by the English NHS. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care liaises closely with these organisations to encourage submission of complete and valid data and seeks to minimise inaccuracies and the effect of missing and invalid data via HES processes. While this brings about improvement over time, some shortcomings remain. PCT7 strategic health authority (SHA) data quality PCT and SHA data was added to historic data years in the HES database using 2002-03 boundaries, as a one-off exercise in 2004. The quality of the data on PCTof treatment and SHA of treatment is poor in 1996-97, 1997-98 and 1998-99, with over a third of all finished episodes having missing values in these years. Data quality of PCT of general practitioner (GP) practice and SHA of GP practice in 1997-98 and 1998-99 is also poor, with a high proportion missing values where practices changed or ceased to exist. There is less change in completeness of the residence-based fields over time, where the majority of unknown values are due to missing postcodes on birth episodes. Users of time series analysis including these years need to be aware of these issues in their interpretation of the data. Assessing growth through time HES figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. The quality and coverage of the data have improved over time. These improvements in information submitted by the NHS have been particularly marked in the earlier years and need to be borne in mind when analysing time series. Some of the increase in figures for later years (particularly 2006-07 onwards) may be due to the improvement in the coverage of independent sector activity. Changes in NHS practice also need to be borne in mind when analysing time series. For example, a number of procedures may now be undertaken in outpatient settings and may no longer be accounted for in the HES data. This may account for any reductions in activity over time. Small numbers To protect patient confidentiality, figures between 1 and 5 have been suppressed and replaced with “*” (an asterisk). Where it was possible to identify numbers from the total due to a single suppressed number in a row or column, an additional number (the next smallest) has been suppressed. 2006-07 data There is a decline in 2006-07 compared to previous years. This is due to an error made by Milton Keynes PCT when submitting their data for this year. Their submission was split into two parts, but unfortunately the second submitted file for the year overwrote the first, giving approximately half as many records as there should have been. For this reason it is advised not to compare this year to other years. Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), the NHS Information Centre for health and social care.

Tranquillisers measures his Department intends to take to reduce the level of tranquilliser prescribing. [278060]

Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Gillian Merron: We expect individual prescribers to pursuant to the answer of 18 May 2009, Official ensure that tranquilisers are prescribed appropriately Report, columns 1229-30W, on tranquillisers, what depending on the individual needs of patients. In 535W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 536W exercising their professional and clinical judgment, Table 1 prescribers should consider available guidance and best £ practice. 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 The Department issued advice in 1994 and 1999 NDNAD 774,304 904,385 1,276,823 1,245,151 warning doctors of the dangers of benzodiazepine Services costs dependence. The Chief Medical Officer issued further Supplier 320,507 388,047 433,828 459,192 advice in 2004 reminding doctors that benzodiazepines accreditation should be prescribed only for short periods. This advice costs is reiterated in the British National Formulary which is Total 1,094,811 1,292,432 1,710,651 1,704,343 issued to prescribers every six months. Copies are available from: Table 2 www.BNF.org £ 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health NDNAD Service 2,041,743 1,600,087 1,818,362 what results from prescribed medication withdrawal delivery including treatments have been reported by the NHS in respect of delivery of IT treatments provided by (a) David McKeown, Belfast development projects and (b) the tranquilliser withdrawal clinic in Oldham Custodian 527,677 574,817 1,512,138 in the last two years. [279386] accreditation1 NDNAD transition n/a n/a 960,000 Gillian Merron: The Department does not hold Total 2,569,420 2,174,904 4,290,500 information about the results from the prescribed 1 Custodian accreditation costs prior to 2008-09 are the direct medication withdrawal treatment reported by the Oldham programme costs of the Custodian Accreditation programme and do withdrawal service, however local information held can not include the NPIA staff costs for NDNAD management, administration and data quality. These additional costs have be made available by contacting Oldham primary care however been included in the figures for 2008-09 onwards. trust directly. Any results from work by David McKeown in Belfast, would not be reported to this Department. Forensic Science Service: Chorley

Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the HOME DEPARTMENT Home Department pursuant to the written ministerial statement of 8 June 2009, Official Report, columns DNA: Databases 21-22WS, on the Forensic Science Service, what assessment he has made of the effect of the proposed Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the restructuring of the Forensic Science Service on Home Department how much funding his Department employees of the service based in Chorley; and what has allocated in respect of the (a) capital and (b) arrangements he plans to make to retain the skills of running costs of the national DNA database. [271365] employees at the service’s laboratory in Chorley. [281135] Mr. Alan Campbell: The National DNA Database (NDNAD) was established in 1995, when responsibility Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 18 June 2009]: for the operational management of the NDNAD rested All proposals relating to the restructuring of the Forensic with the Forensic Science Service (FSS) on behalf of Science Service (FSS) are subject to collective consultation the police service. No central records of costs relating to with staff and staff representatives which was launched the maintenance of the NDNAD are held prior to 2002, on 8 June 2009. It must be emphasised that no decisions as cost data was incorporated in other costs incurred by have been made at this stage, however scientific excellence the FSS. will remain at the centre of all the FSS and there are no In December 2005 the FSS was vested as a Government circumstances under which the FSS would consider Owned Company and responsibility for the NDNAD jeopardising the quality standards and scientific integrity transferred from the FSS to the Home Office. On 1 April that lie at the heart of organisation. 2007 responsibility for the NDNAD transferred from the Home Office to the National Policing Improvement Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Agency (NPIA). Home Department pursuant to the written ministerial The costs relating to the maintenance of the NDNAD statement of 8 June 2009, Official Report, columns from 2002-09 are given in the following tables. The costs 21-22WS, on the Forensic Science Service, what from 2006-07 are higher than for previous years, because account this proposed restructuring of the Forensic of the complete separation of costs from the FSS, and Science Service has taken of the relationship between because the increase in the number of forensic suppliers forensic science research at the University of Central requires additional resources for accreditation and Lancashire and the activities of the service (a) in continuous monitoring. In addition, the costs for 2008-09 Chorley and (b) elsewhere; what assessment his include the costs of transferring the physical operation Department has made of the effect of the proposed and maintenance of the NDNAD from the FSS to the restructuring on recruitment to the service from the NPIA (“NDNAD Transition”). University of Central Lancashire; and if he will publish It is not possible to break these figures down into the approved business plan for the proposed capital and running costs. restructuring. [281137] 537W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 538W

Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 18 June 2009]: series in April 1999 and religiously aggravated offences The University of Central Lancashire’s (UCLAN) forensic were added in April 2002. It is not possible to separately science research team does not conduct any research on identify those offences of a racial nature from those of behalf of the Forensic Science Service (FSS). In recent a religious nature. months, the FSS and UCLAN have started to discuss the potential opportunity for the FSS to offer student Data for 1999-2000 to 2002-03 is given in the following placements. However, these discussions are in their early table. Data for 2008-09 will be published on 16 July stages and no formal arrangements have been made at 2009. this point in time. Racially or religiously aggravated offences recorded by the police There are no plans to publish the Forensic Science Number of offences Service Business Plan on the grounds of commercial Police force sensitivity. area 1999-2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-031,2 Avon and 240 3,292 700 900 Fraud: Forgery Somerset Bedfordshire 42 91 134 169 British n/a n/a n/a 402 Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for the Transport Home Department how many reported instances of Police (a) fraud and (b) forgery there have been in each year Cambridgeshire 222 262 259 410 since 1997. [280669] Cheshire 98 216 355 376 Cleveland 29 46 71 145 Mr. Alan Campbell: Detailed statistics on recorded Cumbria 27 44 60 69 fraud and forgery offences from 1997 onwards are Derbyshire 263 298 381 560 published in Table 2.04 of ‘Crime in England and Wales Devon and 120 272 321 496 2007-08’. A copy of the table can be accessed at: Cornwall http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708chap2.xls Dorset 83 154 116 177 The Fraud Act 2006 came into force on 15 January Durham 30 50 89 371 2007 and re-defined offences in the fraud and forgery Dyfed- 76 81 96 96 Powys offence group. At the same time, the counting of cheque and credit card fraud changed from a ‘per fraudulent Essex 87 244 509 558 transaction’ to a ‘per account’ basis. These counting Gloucestershire 147 187 192 210 rule changes have significantly reduced both the bureaucracy Greater 693 1,073 2,804 2,353 Manchester on the police together with the overall total of fraud Gwent 97 154 141 193 and forgery offences recorded by them. Hampshire 273 609 454 317 For these reasons, the annual Home Office publication Hertfordshire 148 177 233 343 ‘Crime in England and Wales’ focuses on fraud and Humberside 70 90 149 302 forgery offences identified by organisations within the Kent 339 463 427 547 industry such as APACS (the UK payments association). Lancashire 232 408 1,057 860 Leicestershire 169 295 556 809 Human Trafficking: Children Lincolnshire 12 30 26 136 London, City 40 45 45 71 Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for the of Home Department what steps his Department is taking Merseyside 234 318 461 734 to tackle child trafficking in the UK. [280707] Metropolitan 13,850 11,925 10,800 9,853 Police Mr. Alan Campbell: The Government’s strategy for Norfolk 76 87 103 203 tackling child trafficking is in its Action Plan, published Northamptonshire 191 234 294 303 in March 2007 and up-dated in July 2008. A copy can Northumbria 273 360 538 934 be found at: North Wales 35 108 173 288 http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.gov.uk/ North 6152480 Yorkshire humantrafficking004.htm Nottinghamshire 425 620 731 635 Racially Aggravated Offences South Wales 402 468 624 737 South 98 168 221 242 Yorkshire Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for the Staffordshire 176 276 646 466 Home Department how many racially-motivated Suffolk 125 191 272 246 crimes were recorded in each police force area in (a) Surrey 168 269 308 407 each year from 1997-98 to 2002-03 and (b) 2008-09. Sussex 246 434 441 443 [280855] Thames 420 607 938 948 Valley Mr. Alan Campbell: The information on police recorded Warwickshire 66 111 181 159 crime covers some categories of offence that are deemed West Mercia 228 468 661 527 to be racially or religiously aggravated. Racially aggravated West 883 2,306 2,843 2,422 offences were added to the recorded crime statistics Midlands 539W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 540W

Racially or religiously aggravated offences recorded by the police has been made of the effectiveness of that expenditure; Number of offences and what plans he has for future energy efficiency Police force measures. [280532] area 1999-2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-031,2

West 234 308 501 707 Mr. Wills: The Ministry of Justice is unable to provide Yorkshire the financial information on energy efficiency measures Wiltshire 77 118 149 232 in each year from 2004-09 and the assessment made of Total 21,750 27,972 30,084 31,436 the effectiveness of that expenditure without incurring n/a = Not available. disproportionate costs. 1 The National Crime Recording Standard was introduced in April Actions the Ministry of Justice are taking for future 2002 and figures before and after that date are not directly comparable. 2 energy efficient measures have been published in the Includes British Transport Police for 2002-03. OGC delivery plan: http://www.ogc.gov.uk/documents/ Delivery_Plan_Update_Dec08.pdf HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION The Sustainable Development Commission reports annually on Departments’ progress against SOGE targets Members: Allowances in the Sustainable in Government Report (SDiG). In 2007-08 the Ministry of Justice was rated as having Roger Berry: To ask the hon. Member for North made excellent progress in energy efficiency overall. Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission what terms of reference have been set for Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for the audit of previously submitted and paid expenses Justice which official is responsible for the energy claims by hon. Members; what instructions have been efficiency of his Department’s estate. [280562] given to those performing the audit; when he expects the audit to be completed; in what form the results of Mr. Wills: The official responsible for the energy the audit will be published; and whether any external efficiency of the Ministry of Justice is Marco Pierleoni, accountancy expertise has been recruited to assist in director general, finance and commercial, who is also the audit. [278995] the Department’s green champion. However, the Ministry of Justice is in the process of appointing a new director Nick Harvey: Sir Thomas Legg KCB QC has been of strategic property who will take over this work of the engaged to carry out the review of four years’ claims for estate. Additional Costs Allowance for all Members who have claimed the allowance. His terms of reference are currently HM Courts Service: Pay under consideration. He will begin work shortly and carry out his review as quickly as possible. He will draw on external professional accountancy expertise as well Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice as help from other sources. His findings will be published what financial settlement was reached with the former in a report in due course. Chief Executive of HM Courts Service at the end of his tenure. [279894]

Mr. Straw: Details of the financial settlement reached JUSTICE with the former chief executive, HM Courts Service is available in the public domain. The question was published Demos on 25 February 2009, Official Report, column 841W. It is also detailed in the Ministry of Justice’s resource Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice account 2007-08. what (a) private meetings and (b) public engagements Sir Ron De Witt left the Department on 14 December Ministers in his Department have attended at which 2007. He received a lump sum compensation payment representatives from the think-tank Demos were upon the date of his departure of £405-£410,000. This present in the last 12 months; and if he will make a included a special severance payment of £130-135,000. statement. [279496] Police Custody: Young People Mr. Straw: In the last 12 months, neither I, nor any of my Ministers, have had any meetings with representatives of the think-tank Demos and my Department has no Helen Southworth: To ask the Secretary of State for record that representatives were present at any public Justice how many juveniles were taken to court for an engagement Ministers attended. As my hon. Friend will appearance pending trial from police cells in the last be aware, my brother Edward Straw is Chairman of year for which figures are available. [280445] Demos. However, I have not had any meetings with him in that capacity. Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 17 June 2009]: I have been asked to reply. Departmental Energy The information requested is not collected centrally. Data held by the Home Office on persons detained Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for by the police and information on court proceedings and Justice how much was spent on energy efficiency transit from police cells to courts held by the Ministry measures for his Department’s and its predecessor’s of Justice do not separately identify instances where a estate in each year from 2004 to 2009; what assessment juvenile is taken to court during a period of detention. 541W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 542W

Prisoners For more information on the latest reoffending statistics, and on frequency and severity of reoffending please consult: Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many prisoners were in a cell intended for (a) one http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ and (b) two fewer people than were in the cell in reoffendingofadults.htm 2008-09. [279252] Shoplifting

Mr. Straw: The average number of prisoners ‘doubled’ Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for (held two for a cell certified for one) during 2008-09 was Justice what recent guidance his Department has issued 19,153. This represented 23.1 per cent. of the population. to the courts in relation to the handling of trials for The number held three for a cell for two during the shoplifting offences. [280092] same period was 1,186. This represents 1.4 per cent. of the population. Mr. Straw: Sentencing guidelines are issued to the In total, 20,339 prisoners were doubled or held three courts by the independent Sentencing Guidelines Council, to a cell for two. This represents 24.6 per cent. of the not by the Government. In December 2008, the Sentencing population. Guidelines Council published a definitive guideline on theft and burglary in a building other than a dwelling. Figures for prisoners held in dormitory accommodation This can be found at: for one fewer person (nine in a dormitory for eight, for example) and data for prisoners in accommodation for http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/ two fewer people are not reported separately. Data for Theft%20and%20Burglary%20of%20a%20building% 20other%20than%20a%20dwelling.pdf this type of overcrowding will be included in the figure for total overcrowding. The average number of prisoners overcrowded (including doubling and three to a cell for two) during 2008-09 was 20,452, representing 24.7 per OLYMPICS cent. of the population. On average, 113 prisoners are overcrowded in conditions other than two to a cell for Olympic Games 2012 one and three to a cell for two. Overcrowding where prisoners are held in cells for Bob Spink: To ask the Minister for the Olympics two fewer people may consist of four in a cell for two or what her latest estimate is of the cost of hosting the five in a cell for three or nine in a dormitory for eight. London 2012 Olympics (a) gymnastics, (b) wheelchair The practice of holding three prisoners in a cell certified basketball and (c) basketball events at North for one no longer exists; no prisoners have been held in Greenwich Arena 1. [278973] these conditions since 1994. Since 1997, the Government have increased prison Tessa Jowell: The London Organising Committee of capacity by over 24,000 places (not all of them new the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (LOCOG) build). The Government increased capacity by over has responsibility for staging the Olympic and Paralympic 3,300 places last year, aim to increase it by a further Games at existing venues. The direct costs associated 2,000 this year and are committed to increase net capacity with staging the events at existing venues come from to 96,000 by 2014. LOCOG’s revenues which are primarily derived from commercial sponsorship, broadcast rights, ticket sales and merchandising/licensing—not from the public purse. Reoffenders There will be attributable costs to the public purse, for example in respect of the security and transport functions associated with the venue. However these Mr. Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice costs have not yet been identified separately for individual how many offences committed within one year of venues, but they will form part of the overall security release by former prisoners of each prison cohort since and transport budgets. 2000 were not (a) identified as incidents of re-offending for more than six months after the offence Bob Spink: To ask the Minister for the Olympics was committed and (b) taken into account in the what her latest estimate is of the cost of hosting the calculation of published re-offending rates. [281158] London 2012 Olympics (a) badminton, (b) rhythmic gymnastics and (c) volleyball events at North Maria Eagle: This information is not available. The Greenwich Arena 2. [279445] data in the ‘Re-offending of adults’ publication reports on proven reoffending. An offender is said to have Tessa Jowell: The London Organising Committee of committed a proven reoffence if he or she receives a the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (LOCOG) conviction at court for the reoffence. The reoffence has responsibility for staging the Olympic and Paralympic must have been committed within the one year follow Games. The direct costs associated with staging the up period, and the conviction must follow either within events come from LOCOG’s revenues which are primarily that one year follow up, or in a further six months, derived from commercial sponsorship, broadcast rights, which is to allow time for the offence to be proven at ticket sales and merchandising/licensing—not from the court. public purse. The data sets used to compile the published reoffending There will be attributable costs to the public purse, figures do not include information on re-offences that for example in respect of the security and transport fall outside the six month waiting period. functions associated with the events. However these 543W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 544W costs have not yet been identified separately for individual The rates currently in operation for ordinary witnesses events, but they will form part of the overall security provide a maximum of £33.50 for an absence from work and transport budgets. not exceeding four hours, and £67.00 for an absence In respect of the North Greenwich Arena 2 the from work exceeding four hours. These payments are project budget cannot be disclosed at the current time not subject to income tax or other statutory deductions. owing to commercial sensitivity. The rates payable by the CPS are adopted by Her Majesty’s Courts Service for defence witnesses, and by other prosecuting authorities.

PRIME MINISTER Mr. Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Solicitor-General when the rates for (a) expenses and (b) allowances Clergy: Public Appointments payable to witnesses appearing in court proceedings were last set; how the rates are determined; and how Mr. Dunne: To ask the Prime Minister when he often the rates are (i) reviewed and (ii) amended. received recommendations from the diocese of [280043] Hereford for the appointment to the position of Bishop of Ludlow. [281389] The Solicitor-General: The rates for witness expenses and allowances, which are paid in accordance with the The Prime Minister: Correspondence between the Crown Prosecution Service (Witnesses’ etc Allowances) Church and No. 10 on senior church appointments is Regulations 1988, are reviewed annually by the CPS in confidential. The process for appointing Bishops is set consultation with the Ministry of Justice and the Serious out in ‘The Governance of Britain’ (Cm7170), copies of Fraud Office. They were last reviewed in July 2008 and which are available in the Libraries of the House. amended from 1 September 2008 to allow for the reimbursement of any congestion charge paid by a National Security witness in making a journey to court. The regulations allow for the payment of the cost of Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Prime Minister what transport to and from court, meals and refreshments, progress has been made on the establishment of a joint hotel accommodation if necessary, and loss of earnings. committee on the national security strategy. [281464] The travel and subsistence allowances are very similar to allowances made to civil servants, and are adjusted The Prime Minister: An announcement will be made when civil service allowances are revised. The loss of in due course. earnings allowance is set broadly in line with the national average salary and by comparison to rates paid to jurors attending court for the purpose of public duty.

SOLICITOR-GENERAL TRANSPORT Sentencing: Appeals Driving Tests: Motorcycles Mr. Winnick: To ask the Solicitor-General if the Attorney-General will refer the sentences passed on Mr. Goodwill: To ask the Minister of State, those responsible for the murder of Ben Kinsella to the Department for Transport pursuant to the answer to Court of Appeal for a review of the minimum term to the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire of 1 June 2009, be served. [281215] Official Report, column 12W, on driving tests: motorcycles, how many (a) injury and (b) non-injury The Solicitor-General: A decision to refer a sentence incidents have occurred during the swerve and stop to the Court of Appeal can be made if the sentence element of the motorcycle test since 15 May 2009. appears to the Attorney-General or the Solicitor-General [280882] to be unduly lenient. The prosecuting authority or any member of the public can invite us to consider a sentence Paul Clark [holding answer 18 June 2009]: Between for referral. This case will accordingly be fully considered the 16 May and 12 June 2009, 5,317 Module 1 tests have within 28 days of the sentence being passed, which is been conducted and there have been reported (a) one the time limit that applies in all cases. injury and (b) five non-injury incidents during the avoidance and controlled stop manoeuvre of the motorcycle Witnesses test.

Mr. Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Solicitor-General Ports what compensation for loss of earnings HM Courts Service offers to witnesses in court proceedings who Mr. Goodwill: To ask the Minister of State, attend court on days when the cases in which they are Department for Transport what the average time taken due to appear are delayed or postponed. [280042] to approve a harbour variation order was in the last five years. [281459] The Solicitor-General: Whether the case is heard, delayed or postponed the CPS provides a compensatory Paul Clark: Since June 2004 the Department for allowance for loss of earnings to witnesses who attend Transport has made 23 Harbour Revision or Empowerment court at its request. Orders. The average time from the date of application 545W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 546W to making, not including time for production of an (2) how much was spent on energy efficiency Environmental Statement where necessary, was three measures for his Department’s estate in each year from years and 11 weeks. The longest time was just under 2004 to 2009; what assessment has been made of the eight years, the shortest just over nine months. Our effectiveness of that expenditure; and what plans he has reforms to the planning process under the Planning Act for future energy efficiency measures; [280539] 2008 and the Marine and Coastal Access Bill have been (3) which official is responsible for the energy designed to reduce the time taken to determine such efficiency of his Department’s estate. [280551] orders. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: HM Treasury is committed to improving the energy efficiency of its departmental estate and reducing its energy use year on year. TREASURY The permanent secretary to the Treasury, as principal Banks: Public Consultation accounting officer, has overall responsibility for the efficient use of resources to deliver the Department’s objectives. Mr. Peter Ainsworth: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will publish a progress report on his Detailed information on the Treasury Group’s energy consultation on a code of conduct for banks; which consumption since 2005-06 by building were published organisations and companies (a) have been and (b) in HM Treasury’s departmental report for 2007-08 will be consulted; and how the terms and details of the (Cm 7408). Updates on progress will be provided annually. consultation are being publicised. [281384] Figures for 2004-05 could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: HM Revenue and Customs are Measures taken over the last year which have led to in regular contact with banks and tax advisers from increased energy efficiency include improvements to major accountancy firms concerning the code of practice heating, air conditioning and lighting system controls on taxation for banks. and replacement of local radiator controls in the Treasury The code of practice will be published shortly for building with more efficient ones. In March 2009, the public consultation. Treasury successfully achieved certification under the Carbon Trust Standard. Child Trust Fund: Milton Keynes

Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Chancellor of the Departmental Information Officers Exchequer how many child trust vouchers have been issued to residents in Milton Keynes North East Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Chancellor of the constituency; how many accounts have been opened by Exchequer how many press officers were employed by residents of the constituency; and what his estimate is (a) his Department, (b) its agencies, (c) HM Revenue of the value of those accounts. [280878] and Customs and (d) the Valuation Office Agency in each of the last three years; and at what cost in each Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The most recent constituency such year. [279340] level statistics on child trust fund accounts were published on 6 November 2008 and can be viewed on the HM Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The number of full-time equivalent Revenue and Customs’ (HMRC) website at: press officers employed by the Treasury Group (HMT, http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ctf/cons-stats-oct08.pdf OGC, DMO), HMRC (including all regional offices) HMRC does not have data on the value of child trust and the Valuation Office in each of the last three years funds at constituency level. is as follows:

Debts 1 April 2007 1 April 2008 1 April 2009 Treasury 10.66 11.66 11.66 Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Chancellor of the Group Exchequer what his most recent estimate is of the total HMRC and 43.84 40.09 38.28 amount of household debt in the UK. [281463] Valuation Office Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Bank of England collects and publishes statistics on household borrowing and The information on costs for the Treasury Group household debt. The full Bank of England dataset can (HMT, OGC and DMO), HMRC and the Valuation be found at: Office for each year since 1997 could be provided only http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mfsd/iadb/ at disproportionate cost. FromShowColumns.asp?Travel=NIx&SearchText=VTXC

Departmental Energy Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation

Gregory Barker: To ask the Chancellor of the Gordon Banks: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) how much (a) electricity and (b) gas Exchequer if he will take steps to ensure the early was used (i) on his Department’s estate and (ii) by his publication of the Chadwick Review into payment of Department’s agencies in each year from 2004-05 to compensation to policy holders who lost money in the 2008-09; [280528] collapse of Equitable Life. [279571] 547W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 548W

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Sir John Chadwick is well aware In cases where a grant of Letters of Administration is of the need to bring this matter to a conclusion and will not needed (net estates less than £15,000) the average provide his advice to the Government as quickly as he is time taken to deal with these estates is 140.03 days. This able. To assist Sir John in his task the Government are figure is taken from the date a file is open to the date the providing all the support and resources he needs. file is closed. Sir John set out his proposed approach to his work on 16 June 2009: details are available on his website at: Northern Rock: Compensation http://www.chadwick-office.org through which interested parties can keep informed of Mark Williams: To ask the Chancellor of the his work and make representations to his office. Exchequer when he expects to announce (a) the valuation of suspended shares in Northern Rock and Sir John will continue to make regular updates as his (b) arrangements for the compensation for work progresses. shareholders; and if he will make a statement. [280789]

Immigration: Gurkhas Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Following a competitive process, the Treasury announced last September that it had appointed Andrew Caldwell, Valuations Partner at BDO Damian Green: To ask the Chancellor of the Stoy Hayward, as independent valuer to assess any Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect compensation that may be payable to those affected by on public expenditure of the admission to the UK of the transfer of the shares in Northern Rock to the 36,000 Gurkhas residents. [275904] Treasury. The valuer is currently conducting the valuation exercise Mr. Byrne: The Government’s position on settlement to determine the value of the shares in Northern Rock rights for Gurkhas who served in the Brigade of Gurkhas in accordance with the Northern Rock Compensation before July 1997 was set out in the Home Secretary’s Scheme Order 2008 and will conclude the task as soon statement to the House on 21 May 2009. On the basis as practicable. The valuer is independent and is responsible that 36,000 Gurkhas plus their dependants settled in the for his own process and timing. Further information United Kingdom, the Government estimated that the about the valuation process can be found on the annual cost would be approximately £1.4 billion. On the independent valuer’s website at: basis that 10,000 to 15,000 applicants plus their dependants settle in the UK, the Government estimate that the www.northernrockvaluer.org.uk costs are likely to be £300 million to £400 million a year. This does not take into account the potential revenue Royal Bank of Scotland from national insurance contributions, income tax or indirect taxes. Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer for what reasons his Department has Intestacy refused requests for the release of information pertaining to meetings between Lord Myners, staff of his Department and representatives of the Royal Bank Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Chancellor of the of Scotland (RBS) held between 6 and 13 October 2008 Exchequer what the average cost to the public purse on pensions and bonuses for outgoing executives of was of managing the estate of a person dying intestate RBS, including Sir Fred Goodwin. [277700] without relatives in the latest period for which figures are available; and what the average time taken to Sarah McCarthy-Fry: So as not to prejudice free and distribute such an estate was in the latest period for frank discussions the Government do not normally which figures are available. [281314] publish details of all meetings. I have nothing further to add to the answer given on 19 March 2009, Official Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Bona Vacantia Division at Report, column 1275W. the Treasury Solicitor deals with estates over £500 where the deceased person has died intestate without known entitled kin and is domiciled in England and Wales (except Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster). WALES The average cost for dealing with these estates is £1,549. This is based on 2008-09 data (the most recent Annual reports complete financial year). These estates are not distributed. Assets are collected Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales and liabilities of the estate are paid. Once the administration what the (a) cost and (b) print run of his of the estate is fully completed the balance of monies Department’s annual report for 2009 is; and how many held are forwarded to the Treasury, to go into the copies his Department has distributed. [281193] Consolidated Fund. Mr. Hain: The cost of producing the Wales Office Based on 2008-09 data, the average time taken to deal Annual Report 2009 was £10,248.30. with an estate where a grant of Letters of Administration is required from the Probate Registry Office (net estates 250 copies have been printed. over £15,000) is 92.33 days. The figure provided is taken Currently more than 120 copies have been distributed. from the date the grant was received to the date the file We expect the remaining copies to be sent out on was closed. request over the coming year. 549W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 550W

Departmental Energy settlement in Wales in the last three years; who spoke at each seminar; who attended from each Department; Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for and what the cost of each seminar was. [281254] Wales how much (a) electricity and (b) gas was used on his Department’s estate in each year from 2004-05 Mr. Hain: Following the Government of Wales Act to 2008-09. [280529] 2006, the Wales Office officials and lawyers continue to work with Cabinet Office, Ministry of Justice and other Mr. Hain: Electricity usage for the years 2005-06 to territorial Offices to deliver a programme of seminars 2008-09 is displayed in the following table. These figures across UK Government Departments. These seminars relate to my Department’s main London building. are designed to promote devolution awareness and understanding of the settlements across the UK Usage(Kwh) Government.

2005-06 79,101 Economic Summit Cost 2006-07 65,452 2007-08 73,236 2008-09 56,042 Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how much each All Wales Economic Summit cost; and The figures for 2004-2005 cannot be provided without who (a) spoke at and (b) attended each summit. incurring disproportionate cost. For my Department’s [281192] leased office space in Cardiff, energy costs are included in the fixed annual service charge and cannot be given Mr. Hain: The All Wales Economic Summits are as a specific component. organised and hosted by the Welsh Assembly Government, The sole use of gas in the Wales Office estate is for therefore the UK Government have no involvement in heating the main London building. This is provided by the cost of the summits. Each summit has had a different the Whitehall District Heating System and figures specific focus, and the invited attendees list has reflected this. to the Wales Office cannot be calculated. Everyone who attends the summits has an opportunity to speak, should they so wish. Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for The summits provide an excellent arena for informed Wales how much was spent on energy efficiency debate on the issues affecting Wales, resulting from the measures for his Department’s estate in each year from global economic downturn. They provide all interested 2004 to 2009; what assessment has been made of the parties, such as business, employment and skills and effectiveness of that expenditure; and what plans he has charity organisations, with the opportunity to report for future energy efficiency measures. [280540] directly to UK Government and Welsh Assembly Government Ministers the difficulties that they are Mr. Hain: The Wales Office has a very small estate, facing on a daily basis. consisting of a main building in London and serviced office space we lease in Cardiff. Public Expenditure The Department’s main building is Grade 2 listed and consequently we are limited in the in the work we Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales can do. There has not been any direct spending since what estimate he has made of the cost to the public 2004 on works specifically to improve energy efficiency, purse of the provision of lawyers employed by his although when undertaking any maintenance or building Department to speak at National School of work we take energy efficiency into account. Government legal training courses. [281194] We are now working on a Sustainable Development Plan, which will include further steps to improve energy Mr. Hain: Raising awareness and knowledge of the efficiency. devolution settlement and of the role of the Wales Office is integral to the work of Wales Office lawyers. Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for As part of this role they have in the last year spoken at Wales which official is responsible for the energy several training courses held by the National School of efficiency of his Department’s estate. [280550] Government. We estimate that travelling and related costs (which will often include travelling which would Mr. Hain: The Wales Office is committed to energy have been undertaken for other purposes) were less than efficiency and all staff appreciate that they have a role £1,400. to play in this and in wider environmental and sustainability issues. For example, staff switch off computer equipment Welsh Language and lights at the end of each day. The Department’s approach and strategy is managed by the Corporate Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Services Branch. when he plans to publish his Department’s revised Welsh language scheme. [281199] Devolution Mr. Hain: The Wales Office continues to work with Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales the Welsh Language Board to revise its Welsh language what seminars his Department has conducted for scheme, and will aim to finalise this document in the other Government Departments on the devolution coming year. 551W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 552W

WOMEN AND EQUALITY Table 2: Research involving focus groups, by financial year Total annual Year Research Purpose costs (£)

Government Equalities Office: Market Research 2007-08 Routes to power To explore ethnic 53,550 minority women’s routes into, through, and out of decision- Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Minister for Women making positions. and Equality how much the Government Equalities Please note this Office spent on (a) opinion polling, (b) focus groups research involved a range of methods. The and (c) other forms of market research in each year cost of the focus since 2007; what surveys were commissioned; and what groups cannot be the purpose of each was. [279369] disaggregated from the total project cost. Women take part To examine the Michael Jabez Foster: Since the establishment of the participation of women, in particular Government Equalities Office (GEO) on 12 October under-represented 2007, the GEO Research and Analysis Team has conducted women, in governance or commissioned a range of research on equality issues and decision making, in community and using a variety of research methods. public life. Please note this research involved a Based on current records, Table 1 lists research projects range of methods. The involving opinion survey (defined broadly here as any cost of focus groups surveys of the public to acquire relevant information) cannot be disaggregated from the commissioned by the Department from October 2007 total project cost. and the GEO’s expenditure on this research by financial year. Table 2 sets out research projects involving focus 2008-09 Perceptions of fair and To examine perceptions 28,252 groups, commissioned by the Department and the equal treatment of fair treatment associated total annual expenditure by financial year. (ongoing research) Table 3 presents information on any other forms of Note: market research commissioned by GEO and associated Impact of the economic downturn on women and families involved focus groups and opinion surveys. To avoid double counting, the costs for this costs by financial year. project have been included in Table 1 not Table 2. A number of these research projects combine a mixture Table 3: Other forms of market research, by financial year of research methods, for which it is not possible to Total annual disaggregate the specific cost of surveys or focus groups. Year Research Purpose costs (£) Under these circumstances, the total cost of the project 2008-09 The use of age-based To explore how age- 120,000 has been provided, and is included in only one place in practices in financial based practices are the tables (to avoid the double-counting of costs). services (ongoing used in financial research) services. Please note Table 1: Research involving opinion surveys, by financial year this research involves a Total annual range of methods. The Year Research Purpose costs (£) cost of the market research element 2008-09 Attitudes to To explore public 125,586 cannot be prostitution attitudes to disaggregated from the prostitution. total project costs. Flexible working To explore how flexible working can help carers combine paid Rape: Victim Support Schemes work and caring responsibilities, and any constraints. Mrs. May: To ask the Minister for Women and Women in business To establish the Equality pursuant to the answer of 16 March 2009, reasons for and Official Report, column 826W, on rape: victim support experiences of women starting their own schemes, for what reason £200,000 of the £1.1 million business. special fund for rape crisis centres had not been paid Impact of the To explore how the out. [281481] economic downturn on downturn has affected women and families the concerns and experiences of women Michael Jabez Foster: All monies from the special and men. Please note this research involved fund for rape crisis centres were paid out by the end of focus groups and the financial year (2008-09). opinion surveys for which the costs cannot The Government Equalities Office paid out £900,000 be disaggregated. from the special fund in grants to individual centres, ensuring that no rape crisis centre closed. Following 2009-10 Perceptions of To establish public 13,515 consultation with the contributing departments, a further offenders’ gender and perceptions of £230,000 was paid out to the two main umbrella bodies sentencing ongoing offenders’ gender and for the sexual violence voluntary sector—Rape Crisis research) sentencing. England and Wales and The Survivors’ Trust—for them Awareness of right to To assess awareness of request flexible the right to request to help their member groups build capacity. These working among flexible working grants are listed in the tables of grants referenced in the parents among carers and answer given on 1 April 2009, Official Report, columns parents. 1241-42W. 553W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 554W

WORK AND PENSIONS (ii) special advisers and (iii) civil servants in her Department which were not used in each of the last Asbestos: Documents three years. [280010]

Mr. Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Jim Knight: Unfortunately, the data requested are not Pensions what the document retention policies of the held centrally by the Department and to gather them Health and Safety Executive are in relation to could be achieved only at a disproportionate cost. documents it has collected since 1984 under the All expenditure is incurred in accordance with the Asbestos (Licensing) Regulations 1983. [278979] principles of Managing Public Money and the Treasury handbook on Regularity and Propriety. Jonathan Shaw: Documents collected by HSE since 1984 under the Asbestos Licensing Regulations are Employment and Support Allowance retained in accordance with HSE’s retention policy. Archive paper files are reviewed for further retention after nine years and electronic files after seven years. If Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work at that stage a judgment is made that the material and Pensions what back to work support will be should be retained the next review would be after 25 provided to people claiming employment and support years. At 25 years it could be destroyed, archived, or allowance for two years or more. [255128] kept for a further agreed period of time for operational reasons. Paper documents whose contents have been Jim Knight: As announced in the White Paper “Raising saved electronically may not be retained. Files of documents expectations and increasing support: reforming welfare identified as relating to health, including asbestos health for the future”, the support provided to new employment related files, are retained for 40 years. and support allowance customers through pathways to work will be extended from the current six mandatory Cabinet: Glasgow work-focused interviews, in the first eight months of the claim, to include quarterly work-focused interviews up Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to the two-year point after claiming. Beyond this claimants and Pensions (1) what car journeys were taken will be able to access support through pathways to work attending the Cabinet meeting in Glasgow on 16 April voluntarily and will also be able to receive help from the 2009; [273934] new specialist disability employment programme, which is due to be launched in October 2010. This new programme (2) what expenditure on (a) travel, (b) will be for those disabled people who have complex accommodation and (c) food (i) she and (ii) officials in barriers to employment and will ensure that they have her Department incurred in connection with the access to the right level of support based on their Cabinet meeting in Glasgow on 16 April 2009. [273936] individual needs, to help them prepare for, enter and/ or retain employment. Jim Knight: For information in relation to the Cabinet and public engagement event held in Glasgow on 16 As we set out in the White Paper, we will need to April I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by introduce further changes gradually and extend the my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 3 June work-focused interviews regime beyond current time 2009, Official Report, column 487W. periods as resources allow. This is consistent with the direction of travel set by David Freud in his report Departmental Data Protection “Reducing dependency, increasing opportunity: options for the future of welfare to work” and further developed James Brokenshire: To ask the Secretary of State for in the recent review by Professor Paul Gregg. The Invest Work and Pensions how many notifications her to Save pathfinders, due to begin in five areas from Department made to the Information Commissioner in spring 2011, will help to increase our understanding of the year ended 30 April 2009 in respect of the loss or how best to support long term claimants with a health mishandling of personal information or data; what was condition or disability into work. notified in each such case; and how many individuals were the subjects of personal information or data in Employment Schemes respect of which such notifications were made. [278723] Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jonathan Shaw: The Department will publish in its and Pensions what discussions she has had with her Resource Accounts for 2008-09 details of incidents ministerial colleagues on the prevention of the involving personal data that have been notified to the practices of creaming and parking in relation to work Information Commissioner during the year to 31 March placements arranged by potential providers under 2009. The accounts are currently being finalised. Details contracted out employment services; and if she will of the notifications made to the Commissioner in respect make a statement. [275468] of incidents arising in the year commencing 1 April 2009 will be published in the Resource Accounts for Jim Knight: DWP published the Commissioning Strategy 2009-10. in February 2008. This provides a set of principles to incentivise providers to support all customers on contracted Departmental Travel employment provision. Longer and larger contracts will make provision attractive to a broader range of providers. Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work This competition for and within contracts will incentivise and Pensions how much her Department spent on providers to drive up performance offers, and the number tickets for (a) air and (b) rail travel for (i) Ministers, of people they plan to get into work. Competition for 555W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 556W flexible new deal contracts has been fierce, and preferred Job Creation: Finance bidders have committed to get more people into work than the best of existing provision, employment zones. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Flexible new deal will replace a diverse patchwork of Work and Pensions what funding her Department has contracts with just 24. This will enable DWP to strengthen allocated to the Future Jobs Fund for 2009-10. [275699] its contract management function. Contract managers will require suppliers to uphold their commitments, Jim Knight: The Future Jobs Fund has been allocated including how they provide support for all our customers. £300 million for 2009-10.

Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jobcentre Plus: Complaints and Pensions how many businesses have received the recruitment subsidy element of the six-month offer Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work announced on 12 January 2009 via Jobcentre Plus; how and Pensions how many formal complaints were many enquiries on the scheme have been received; and received by Jobcentre Plus in each region in each of the if she will make a statement. [276733] first three quarters of 2008-09. [265042]

Jim Knight: The information requested is not available. Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Equitable Life Assurance Society Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. Member with the information requested. Letter from Mel Groves: Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what recent discussions she has The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on Equitable asking how many formal complaints were received by Jobcentre Plus in each region in each of the first three quarters of 2008-09. Life. [277972] This is something which falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. Jim Knight: I can confirm that I have not had any The information you requested is in the following table. discussions with ministerial colleagues in HM Treasury Jobcentre Plus complaints received regarding Equitable Life. July to October to April to June September December Future Jobs Fund Region 2008 2008 2008 East 285 302 247 Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Midlands and Pensions how much has been spent under the East of 733 1,194 1,071 England Future Jobs Fund. [280338] London 465 633 485 North East 513 549 500 Jim Knight: We published our bidding criteria for the North West 1,013 956 961 Future Jobs Fund and invited bids on 13 May. The Scotland 1,052 1,031 987 initial set of bids will be assessed during the summer and we hope to be in a position to announce the first set South East 1,056 1,165 1,243 of awards in August, with the first placements beginning South West 1,333 1,590 1,531 later in the autumn. Wales 618 833 747 West 815 880 864 As the assessment of bids has not yet taken place, no Midlands funding allocations have yet been made. Yorkshire and 719 761 719 Humberside Incapacity Benefit Source: Jobcentre Plus

Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for Jobcentre Plus: Labour Turnover Work and Pensions if she will bring forward proposals to make it mandatory for incapacity benefit assessors Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to take account of the advice of a person’s GP during and Pensions how many staff were (a) recruited and that person’s assessment for incapacity benefit. [281256] (b) made redundant by Jobcentre Plus in each region in (i) January and (ii) February 2009. [264852] Jonathan Shaw: The provision of medical evidence from a person’s GP is required under current regulations. Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a This evidence is gathered as part of the process for matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, claiming incapacity benefit before a personal capability Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. assessment takes place. Additionally, the Department’s Member with the information requested. external medical provider regularly requests additional Letter from Mel Groves: medical evidence from GPs according to the circumstances The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question of the case. All the available evidence is taken into asking how many staff were recruited and made redundant by account by the decision maker in deciding whether or Jobcentre Plus in each region in January and February 2009. This not a person is incapable of work and entitled to is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me incapacity benefit. as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. 557W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 558W

In response to recent economic events Jobcentre Plus is deploying Personal advisers by region extra resources: 2008 Some 4,000 more staff than in our original Spending Review March April May June July August plans have been recruited Nov 2008-Feb 2009. All of this new Total 9,147 8,918 8,950 8,966 9,053 9,014 resource will be applied to customer-facing services. numbers In line with the recent Pre-Budget Report, Jobcentre Plus will East of 615 602 610 620 628 644 be in a position to deploy some 6,000 additional staff by end of England 2009/10 than was originally planned. East 549 540 543 547 559 566 The total number of people joining Jobcentre Plus and the Midlands number of people leaving Jobcentre Plus under Early Release London 1,479 1,465 1,462 1,449 1,444 1,420 arrangements in each region for January and February 2009 are North East 594 584 589 590 592 587 in the attached tables. Within the period referred to, Jobcentre North 1,288 1,243 1,257 1,254 1,254 1,259 Plus did not make any member of staff compulsorily redundant. West Scotland 956 920 918 931 968 946 Jobcentre Plus new recruits—full-time equivalents South East 754 722 720 728 759 772 Region January 2009 February 2009 South West 593 566 562 561 560 555 East Midlands 171 63 Wales 509 495 496 498 501 491 East of England 70 40 West 910 912 924 926 924 911 London 74 40 Midlands Yorkshire 901 870 871 861 864 863 North East 36 23 and the North West 132 121 Humber Scotland 109 111

South East 140 73 2008 2009 South West 104 37 September October November December January February Wales 134 66 West Midlands 65 56 Total 9,157 9,160 9,160 9,177 9,492 9,523 numbers Yorkshire and the 90 63 Humber East of 654 653 658 654 671 670 England Total 1,125 693 East 588 595 588 593 599 611 Note: Midlands The data reflects the number of recruits accounted for in the London 1,445 1,444 1,444 1,430 1,449 1,449 Department’s extract from the payroll. North 600 589 579 578 603 606 Jobcentre Plus leavers under early release arrangements—headcount East Region January 2009 February 2009 North 1,299 1,308 1,310 1,331 1,403 1,400 West East of England 0 1 Scotland 948 952 957 950 983 978 North West 0 1 South East 782 789 776 776 835 855 Scotland 3 3 South 554 540 536 542 568 581 South West 0 4 West Wales 8 0 Wales 490 495 504 512 532 524 Yorkshire and the 10West 926 930 935 939 961 952 Midlands Humber Yorkshire 871 865 874 873 890 897 Total 12 9 and the Note: Humber No one was made compulsorily redundant and these leavers were as a result of office closures, mismatches in locations and staffing requirements and other unavoidable circumstances. Members: Correspondence Jobcentre Plus: Manpower Mr. Salmond: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions when she plans to reply to the letter of and Pensions how many personal advisers Jobcentre 10 March 2009 from the right hon. Member for Banff Plus employed in each region in each of the last 12 and Buchan. [280746] months. [272657] Jim Knight: A reply was sent to the right hon. Member Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a on 21 March 2009. matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. Member with the information requested. New Deal Schemes Letter from Mel Groves: Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question asking how many personal advisers Jobcentre Plus employed in and Pensions what estimate she has made of the cost to each region in each of the last 12 months. This is something that the public purse of (a) the New Deal for Young falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief people, (b) the New Deal for 25 plus, (c) the New Deal Executive of Jobcentre Plus. for 50 plus, (d) the New Deal for Disabled People, The table enclosed shows the number of personal advisers in (e) the New Deal for Lone Parents, (f) the New Deal each Jobcentre Plus region in each month for the period March for Partners, (g) Employment Zones and (h) Pathways 2008 to February 2009. to Work in each year from 2007 to 2015. [266108] 559W Written Answers19 JUNE 2009 Written Answers 560W

Jim Knight: The table shows the relevant expenditure Plus’s offices in (a) the Borough of Wyre, (b) the (actual and planned) for the financial years 2007-08 to Borough of Fylde, (c) the Borough of Blackpool and 2010-11 inclusive. Figures for 2007-08 represent actual (d) the City of Preston. [279458] expenditure as published in the Departmental Report, and those for 2008-09 represent estimated outturn, pending Jim Knight: The information requested is not available. final audit—actual expenditure will be published in the Details of previous employers are not collated centrally. departmental report later this year. Estimates have not Welfare Reform Bill been made beyond the current spending review period, so no figures are available for years from 2011 to 2015. Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what safeguards will be put in place to £ million ensure that the provisions of (a) clause 9 of and (b) Budgets Schedule 3 to the Welfare Reform Bill are compatible Estimated with the European Convention on Human Rights. Outturn outturn [275425] Programme 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Jim Knight [holding answer 14 May 2009]: Clause 9 Total new deal for 398.3 421.8 434.7 237.2 of and schedule 3 to the Welfare Reform Bill confer a young people and new deal 25 plus number of new regulation-making powers allowing for New deal for 50 plus 0.2 0.2 1.0 1.0 requirements to be imposed on people claiming jobseeker’ allowance or employment and support allowance who New deal for 78.4 34.1 48.8 50.2 disabled people are dependent on drugs or who have a propensity to New deal for lone 60.4 29.5 34.0 62.7 misuse drugs. The regulations will include a range of parents safeguards to ensure that the requirements are compatible New deal for 0.4 0.2 0.2 0.2 with the European Convention on Human Rights. The partners Government are considering including the following Employment zones 123.0 118.4 110.7 18.2 measures in particular: Pathways to work 69.5 127.8 195.9 219.0 before a benefit sanction is applied for failure to comply with a Note: mandatory element of the policy, customers will have the opportunity Figures for new deal for young people and new deal 25 plus are not to argue they had good cause for failing to comply with the new accounted for separately so the combined totals are shown. The arrangements; figure includes spend/budget on private sector leads, new deal for the content of rehabilitation plans will be agreed with the musicians, new deal self employment, work trials and new deal individuals concerned, including any drug treatment that will be allowances paid to customers. undertaken; the sharing of data with other organisations will be proportionate and administered in line with existing protocols; and Unemployment: Lancashire drug testing will be used in a proportionate way to help establish problematic drug use in cases of dispute. Mr. Jack: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and The affirmative parliamentary procedure will apply Pensions how many former employees of her to the regulations so, before they can come into force, Department are registered as unemployed at Jobcentre they will have to be approved in draft by both Houses. WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Friday 19 June 2009

Col. No. Col. No. CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES...... 37WS PRIME MINISTER—continued Partnerships for Schools ...... 37WS Staff Counsellor for the Security and Intelligence Services ...... 39WS HEALTH...... 38WS Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council ...... 38WS PRIME MINISTER ...... 39WS TRANSPORT ...... 39WS Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe Rail Accidents (Grayrigg and Potters Bar)...... 39WS and Western European Union (UK Delegation) ...... 39WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Friday 19 June 2009

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 505W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— Charities: Animal Welfare ...... 505W continued Water Charges: Voluntary Organisations ...... 521W CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES ...... 505W Departmental Correspondence ...... 505W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 522W Departmental Energy...... 505W Afghanistan: Detainees...... 522W Education Maintenance Allowance...... 506W BBC External Services: Finance...... 522W Schools ...... 506W Bosnia and Herzegovina: Politics and Schools: Essex...... 506W Government...... 523W Departmental Carbon Emissions ...... 523W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 507W Departmental Energy...... 524W Fire Services: Finance ...... 507W Departmental Waste ...... 525W Homes and Communities Agency: Manpower...... 507W Departmental Water ...... 525W Homes and Communities Agency: Offices ...... 508W Gibraltar: Politics and Government ...... 525W Housing: Low Incomes ...... 508W Hezbollah ...... 525W Preventing Violent Extremism Pathfinder Fund..... 509W Peru: Ethnic Groups ...... 526W Regional Planning and Development: South West . 509W Sri Lanka: EU External Trade ...... 526W

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 510W HEALTH...... 527W Libraries ...... 510W Accidents: Children...... 527W Theatre: Tickets ...... 510W Cancer: Males ...... 527W Colorectal Cancer: Screening ...... 528W DEFENCE...... 510W Departmental Energy...... 528W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 510W Domestic Violence ...... 530W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 511W Malnutrition: Screening ...... 530W Departmental Energy...... 511W Measles: Vaccination...... 530W Gurkhas: Pensions ...... 512W Midwives...... 530W MRSA: Milton Keynes ...... 531W ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE ...... 513W Nutrition: Health Services ...... 531W Elections: Local Government...... 513W Strokes: Milton Keynes...... 532W Tranquillisers ...... 533W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 513W Cabinet: Glasgow...... 513W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 535W Demos...... 514W DNA: Databases...... 535W Energy: Conservation...... 514W Forensic Science Service: Chorley ...... 536W Fuel Poverty...... 514W Fraud: Forgery...... 537W Street Lighting: Carbon Emissions ...... 515W Human Trafficking: Children...... 537W Warm Front Scheme ...... 515W Racially Aggravated Offences...... 537W Wind Power ...... 516W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 539W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Members: Allowances ...... 539W AFFAIRS...... 516W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 516W JUSTICE...... 539W Badgers ...... 517W Demos...... 539W Bees: Research ...... 517W Departmental Energy...... 539W Dairy Farming ...... 519W HM Courts Service: Pay...... 540W Fisheries...... 520W Police Custody: Young People...... 540W Litter Abatement Orders...... 520W Prisoners ...... 541W Newts...... 520W Reoffenders...... 541W Col. No. Col. No. JUSTICE—continued WALES...... 548W Shoplifting ...... 542W Annual reports...... 548W Departmental Energy...... 549W OLYMPICS ...... 542W Devolution...... 549W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 542W Economic Summit Cost ...... 550W Public Expenditure...... 550W PRIME MINISTER ...... 543W Welsh Language...... 550W Clergy: Public Appointments ...... 543W National Security ...... 543W WOMEN AND EQUALITY ...... 551W Government Equalities Office: Market Research ... 551W Rape: Victim Support Schemes ...... 552W SOLICITOR-GENERAL...... 543W Sentencing: Appeals...... 543W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 553W Witnesses ...... 543W Asbestos: Documents...... 553W Cabinet: Glasgow...... 553W TRANSPORT ...... 544W Departmental Data Protection...... 553W Driving Tests: Motorcycles ...... 544W Departmental Travel ...... 553W Ports ...... 544W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 554W Employment Schemes ...... 554W TREASURY ...... 545W Equitable Life Assurance Society...... 555W Banks: Public Consultation...... 545W Future Jobs Fund...... 555W Child Trust Fund: Milton Keynes ...... 545W Incapacity Benefit ...... 555W Debts ...... 545W Job Creation: Finance ...... 556W Departmental Energy...... 545W Jobcentre Plus: Complaints...... 556W Departmental Information Officers ...... 546W Jobcentre Plus: Labour Turnover ...... 556W Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation .. 546W Jobcentre Plus: Manpower ...... 557W Immigration: Gurkhas ...... 547W Members: Correspondence ...... 558W Intestacy ...... 547W New Deal Schemes...... 558W Northern Rock: Compensation...... 548W Unemployment: Lancashire ...... 559W Royal Bank of Scotland ...... 548W Welfare Reform Bill ...... 560W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Friday 19 June 2009

Autism Bill [Col. 540] Read the Third time and passed

Forces Widows’ Pensions (Equality of Treatment) Bill [Col. 584] Motion for Second Reading—(Mr. Mates)—debate adjourned

Rail Services (Access) [Col. 608] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 37WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 505W] [see index inside back page]