Registered by Australia Post Publication number NBH 1859
VOLUME 27 JULY 1991 NUMBER 7
JULY MONThLY MEE11NG
WHERE? Dickson Library Community Room
WHEN? Wednesday 17 July 1991, 800pm f I 4 WHAT? Sb vraicer from the Foresuy WorkIng Group
Sid Walker will be our guest speaker and will talk about Australia's natural forests and resource security.
Before the meeting join fellow members for a light meal at the Vietnam Restaurant in O'connor (the one on the corner) at 600pm. BYO vino.
PRESIDENT'S PRATILE
I got It wrongl Yes, the Club's roots do go back to 1947. On 14 and 15 September we will be holding a reunion at the Orroral campground to celebrate 30 years of continuous Club activity. But it was in 1965, not 1961 that the Club changed its name from the Canberra Walking and Touring Club to the Canberra Bushwalking Club. Thanks to those members, including Anton, who picked up my error and gave me a gentle poke in the ribs.
There is a Notice of Motion for Honorary Life Membership in this issue of IT. The bestowal of life membership of the Club on an individual is recognition of outstanding "meritorious service to or on behalf of the Club". Such acknowledgment is rarely given. However, the Committee fully supports this motion to grant Honorary Life Membership. We believe it is acknowledgment which is well earnt.
As I write this 'prattle', there is snow falling in them-there hills! David Campbell
- -' MEMBERSHIP MATIERS ProspectWe Members Max Wilson 4 Fitchett St, Garran ACT 2605 282 5548(h) 267 1642(w) Cecelia Spence 3 Arthur Circle, Forrest ACT 2603 295 6249(h) 252 2730(w) Chris Bellamy 57 Gardiner St, Downer ACT 2602 249 7167(h) 283 4777(w) Vicki Salkin 6/11 Earle St, LynehamACT 2602 257 2575(h) 275 8614(w) Alan Stocks 27/13-15 Mowatt St, Queanbeyan NSW 2620 297 6281(h) 252 7859(w) Lorraine Schiller 35 Harris St, Hackett ACT 2602 248 6886(h) 297 3043(w) Tricia Fitzgerald c/- 31 Euree St, Reid ACT 2602 247 9929(h) 289 3368(w) Greg Warwick 14 Jelbart St, Mawson ACT 2607 286 1667(h) 270 61 68(w) Charlotte Poole 14 Jelbart St, Miwson ACT 2607 286 1667(h) 270 61 68(w) Brenton Dickins Unit 82, Argyle Sq, Reid ACT 2601 249 6957(h) 257 1511(w) Ron Henry 37 Grylls Cres, Cook ACT 2614 251 4613(h) 264 4181(w) Allen Nutman 10 Carr Cres, Wanniassa ACT 2903 231 3099(h) 249 4373(w) Janet Hanratty 60 Barada Cres, Aranda ACT 2614 251 6635(h) 2
New Members The Club welcomes the following new members: Sue Conomy, Bill Coote, Ruth Cotterell, Eleanor Cotterell, Helen King, Peter Maple, Shane Hicks, Debra Hicks, Anita Rigoni, Adrian Roffey, Jennifer Seymour, Doreen Turnbull, Tony Winsbury, Alex Wright.
NOTICE OF MOTION
The following motion will be proposed at the July Monthly Meeting
That Alan Vidler be elected an Honorary Life Member of the Canberra Bushwalking Club.
Moved: John Thwafte Seconded: Allan Mikkelsen
This motion was discussed at the last committee meeting and was supported unanimously by all members present {AV was riot present! - Ed}.
CLUB CORROBOREE FROG LOGO
Reminder! Bring along your T shirt or sloppy joe for screen printing of the Club's logo to the July Monthly Meeting, plus $3 for the cost of printing. I will collect your garments and arrange for the printing. This is your last chance until October! Metal and cloth frog badges will also be on sale at the July meeting. Please see Debi Williams.
ITS THE CLUB'S 30th ANNIVERSARY THIS VEARI
Date: 14-15 September1991 Venue: Orroral Valley
Food: You are requested to provide your favourite dish or other food item for a communal lunch on the Saturday. The Club will provide soup and damper for this meal.
We will also provide pre-dinner gluhwein but for all other meals you must provide your own food and drinks.
Utemis; Don't forget to bring a mug, plate and cutlery. Water boiling facilities will be provided and there will be campfires. You may however wish to bring your own cooking facilities.
Piticty: Spread the word! Especially to former members of the Club!
CONSERVATION NEWS
AsnseI General Meetklg of the So**t'i East RegIon & Canberra Conseivatlon Council -30 May 1991
The CBC is one of about 40 conservation and community groups in the region, affiliated with the Conservation Council, which acts on our behalf to represent a wide range of environment issues to governments and the community. With very limited resources, it covers a wide range of issues, including comments on the Jervis Bay Plan of Management, a response to Ski 2000, recycling issues, urban transport and the like, development of Gungahlin, south-east forest issues and possible legal action with Tumut Shire Council over a planned new gold mine at Adelong.
The newly elected president of the Conservation Council is Jacqui Rees. A recurrent issue is the inadequate financial resources. Both Con. Council and one of its main working groups, the Forestry Working Group, finished the year with substantial deficits. To help overcome this problem, affiliation fees have been increased. The CBC is in a category of 200 + members and our fees have gone from $45 to $70.
It is proposed that Con. Council will offer individual membership, as well as affiliated membership. This should be both a source of additional people to help with the work of the organisation and also additional funds, it is also proposed that some of the larger affiliated organisation, like CBC, should each run a fund-raising function for Con. Council. I would like to support this proposal and will be discussing it with members who have ideas and are willing to help.
If members would like to discuss any aspects of CBC affiliation with Con. Council, or to see any of the reports which were presented at their AGM in May, please contact me on 289 3422 (w) or 288 6947(h).
Koaks in the Tartaaangalo State Forest
In December1989 Mr Frank Peters, a landowner at Mt Durragh at the head of Devil's Creek catchment, was publicly villified by a Minister of the NSW Government for representations regarding sightings of koalas in an area of Tantawangalo State Forest where the Forestry Commission had started logging.
Logging has now been halted in the area after members of the Tantawangalo Catchment Protection Association (TCPA) have produced irrefutable evidence of the presence of koalas. All the koala sitings which have been made public have been by private individuals, acting vpluntarily; while in the same area" a thorough koala survey" has been done by a paid consultant to the Forestry Commission.
On the basis of the survey the Minister, Mr Causley, stated that claims about koalas in Tantawangalo State Forest "have been thoroughly investigated and found to be totally without foundation".
Mr Kim Tayson on the TCPA recently spoke to the Forestry Working Group about the Devil's Creek koalas. The TCPA has funds from the Australian Heritage Commission to undertake a genuine koala survey. Mr Tayson said that the best chances of finding koalas are when there are substantial groups of people to do systematic searches.
Volunteers are being called for this purpose, so in the spring I will be organising some groups to go for weekends to work with the TCPA on this project. Look for my notice in the spring walks program.
The koala has been compared to the panda in its symbolic importance and described as the diplomat of Australia's unique fauna and a "symbol of community concern for our wildlife" (Premier Nick Greiner, November 1988, opening the Koala Summit). Mike Morriss, Conservation Officer
WALK SECRETARY'S WAFFLE
I have received quite a bit of càmment of late on the Club rule limiting walks to 16 participants unless prior approval is given by the Walk Secretary or Assistant Walk Secretary. This rule exists for a number of reasons, the main ones being safety and environmental protection. It is also easier on leaders as my experience is that the difficulties of arranging and leading trips increases almost exponentially with the number of participants.
I am thus inclined to agree to large parties only when I believe that a large party will not impinge on the safety of the group or result in any excessive environmental damage. The conditions used by George Carter, the Walk Secretary soon after this rule was introduced, still seem to be appropriate:-
"I will not be prepared to give automatic approval for extended parties simply because there is or are persons who could co-lead. My inclination is to refuse in the following circumstances:- any trip graded as "rough" (or which should have been so graded); any trip graded as "medium" unless it is also "short"; any trip which is "long" unless it is also "easy': any trip into an environmentally sensitke area. I will have no difficulty making exceptions for split parties travelling in opposite directions (for any grading) where they are seif-sufficient in all respects, including transport (ie the party is divided on the basis of full car loads)." I would like to remind leaders of this club rule and request that you do not accept more than 16 bookings without first contacting Chris or myself. There is also an obligation on members who book on a walk to turn up! It is disappointing for a leader to refuse bookings to some members only to have the walk start short of numbers because someone has cancelled at the last moment or not turned up. As a matter of interest, in their magazine an interstate club recently congratulated a leader for having a record 74 (that's right, seventy four) starters on a beginners day trip. My mind boggles at the thought of such a group. Thank heavens for our club rule!
PS: It seems that the Tharwa Road is to be closed for reconstruction for about four months from the beginning of July and that access to Tharwa and the south will probably be via Point Hut Crossing. This may add a little to the time needed to get to a walk, particularly if the Murrumbidgee is high and we have to detour through Cotter. Allan Mikkelsen WALK REPORTS
'flanbanznba - Mime & Hovel Track - -3O Jusie My ski tour interested no one, possibly because there was no snow (picky! picky!). I decided it was time to find about the Hume and Hovell track, and where the legendary Tumbarumba could be found.
Jack's party of eight was reduced to six asa resuft of a4 weath& forecast which tempted me to try and hijack the group back to the Rolling Grounds, backed by steady and heavy rain in Canberra on Saturday morning. Jack sensibly decided to go via '(ass and Gundagai rather than Adaminaby and Kiandra. After a long, wet but fast drive, broken by coffee in Tumid we arrived in pouring rain at Henry Angel Flat 7 km past Tumbarumba. Eating lunch in the picnic shelter (equipped with (free) electric grills etc) we wondered whether we should venture into the rain, make more tea or adjourn to the pub. The rain stopped, but looked ready to start at any instant. We dressed up in oilskins etc and set off on the 13km return trip as planned, hoping to get some of it done before the rain returned.
The trip up the swollen Burra Creek was pleasant, enlivened by quite a range of wildlife - kangaroos, many birds (cockatoo trees"), a wombat, a bees' nest in a fallen eucalypt, ferns plus rabbits, a fox, sheep, and cattle. We harvested and stashed away some mushrooms for the return trip. Amazingly, we reached the junction of East and West Burra Creeks still dry. After a look around we started back. Stopping only to retrieve our mushrooms we arrived back - still dry. Four tents were erected - Sue and I decided to sleep in our station wagon. Two minutes later the rain started, but we were all under shelter. The evening meal was convivial and semi-gourmet with cheese, oysters, champagne etc (including fresh mushrooms!), but we were all in bed by 7pm.
Next morning, after a night of intermittent, sometimes heavy, rain we were roused with a cuppa from Jack and Rene. The rain had stopped but was quite threatening - again.
While the others packed Jack and I took a scenic tour of Tumbarumba before finding the correct route out of town to Mannus Lake where we left Jack's car (after nearly bogging it!) at the intended finish of the walk. We drove back to the others, loaded all the "overnight" gear into my car, left it and set off downstream. It was clearly going to be a wet day.
Burra Creek, both upstream and downstream of Henry Angel Flat, is an interesting example of early alluvial mining - it was worked at a fairly low level from 1872 until 1931 - with numerous examples of excavated areas, "stabilised" banks (creek between stone walls), re-routed watercourse, old diversion channels and so on. The track is replete with informative signs at many sites. The most obvious modification is a 70m tunnel through a rock bar, for which a sign quotes a report of the time (1877 ish) - 'the tunnel converted several hundred yards of otherwise useless swamp into a valuable alluvial mining area ... ..and indicated that the upstream level is now several metres lower than previously.
The track continued downstream past a "waterfall" (series of cascades) reported by Hovell in his diary on 8 November 1824. We detoured up a hill from where H & H first saw the Snowy Mountains, but we didn't due to low cloud and fog. After about 6 km we reached Tumbarumba Creek.
From here we climbed steadily on a well contoured track through open forest. We stopped for lunch near the top of the 300m climb. It still wasn't raining - not quite. Continuing, down now, we finally left the forest, crossed a farm paddock, and found ourselves at Jack's car, about 16 km from the start;
5
As we squeezed in it started to rain lightly. We returned to my car, rearranged ourselves, then returned home via intermittant rain, and food in Gundagai - I last visited the cafe we used in 1965- it looks the same but is quieter as the highway now bypasses the town centre.
In summary, an interesting and relaxed trip - a memorable feature being the way we fluked two days dry walking on what was actually a quite wet weekend. Alan Vidler
SUDE COMPETItiON The August Monthly Meeting will be devoted to 2 the Club's annual slide competition. The compere extraordinaire will be Bill Burford. You are invited to enter slides NOT previously entered in the Club's slide competition.
The categories are:
Landscape natural, in general
Action anything that moves
Candid camera those caught unawaçes, keep it tasteful!
Portrait pictures of homo sapiens and other wildlife
Close-up anything taken at close range
Failure bungled shots so bad you cannot throw them away, just in case they win a prize at the slide competition!
There is a limit of 10 slides per person, with a maximum of 3 in any category.
Only slides which have not been previously entered in the Club's slide competition may be submitted.
Please mark all your slides with your name and the category in which they are being entered. ' . Prizes will be awarded to the winners of each category
WALK PREVIEWS
Yadbom - HoCand Gorge - Newhaven Gap - 3-4 AugLst This trip hasn't been run for some time and is a good chance to see the heart of the Budawangs and put it all together, so...
There will be either a Friday night or a very early Saturday start, or both (!), with the Southbound (SB) party drMng to Newhaven Gap and the Northbound (NB) party drMng to Yadboro. NB will ascend Kalianna Ridge, whip up the Castle, then through Monolith Valley on the lovely CBC maintained tracks, round Cole, then past Crooked Falls down a ridge to camp on Holland Creek near Angel Creek in the company of SB. Next day NB will travel downstream to Crevasse Canyon Creek and thence up Watsons Pass to Folly Point then Newhaven Gap. SB will (surprise, surprise) do the trip in reverse. For those not familiar with the area, the views are spectacular all weekend, well worth the up and down involved. Both parties can optionally include extended variations such as the nose of Owen instead of KaliannCastle, and Shrouded Gods or Darri Pass instead of Crooked Falls.
Ski Tots - Thompson's Plahi -31 August-i September If you've not yet invested in snow camping equipment or if the last thing you want to do after skiing all day on the stuff is sleep on it then this weekend tour may suit you.
Where we actually ski will depend on snow and weather conditions but at this stage my intention is to follow the Thompson's Plain trail from Dainer's Gap to Perisher Valley on Saturday and to spend Sunday seeking out some of the protected bowls between Mt Piper and Mt Blue Cow.
Overnight will be in a club lodge at Smiggin Holes with the chance to reward your day's exertion with a sauna and your ten toasting in front of a comforting fire. (Accommodation cost $22).
The only pre-requisites are some basic skiing skills, a reasonable level of fitness and the confidence to mix it with the downhillers if we decide to take a short cut across the groomed slopes.
A trip limit of eight(8) applies and bookings must be made by 30 July to allow me to reserve you a bed.
Zen Vertires
Club members may be interested in purchasing Australian outdoor books from former Club member Manfred Claasz of Zeilan Ventures, who is offering a 33 1/3% discount off all recommended retail prices. His stock includes all the Lonely Planet titles and Charles Warner's books. Contact him on 247 7124. His stock includes:
Bushwalking in Kosciusko (2nd ed) Charles Warner 10.95 Wee Jasper Caves. SRC. 10.95 Canberra Bushwalks. Kim Morgan 6.00 Beyond the Cotter. Klaus Hueneke & 4.95 History tours around Canberra. Jill Waterhouse 4.95 Street trees in Canberra. Audrey Edwards 5.95 Alpine walking track. John Siseman 19.95 100 walks in NSW 12.95 Basic rockcraft 8.95 Advanced rockcraft 9.95 SAS survival handbook 28.95 All Lonely Planet titles - Wilderness search and rescue 49.95 Mountain medicine. Mountaineers 24.95 The Alps in flower. UNPA 11.95 Ski touring in Australia. Brownlie 12.95 Field guide to the native trees of the ACT 6.50 -r
Bweaucracy - and all that stuff!
Our Club By-law 5.1 requires the Constitution and By-laws to be published annually. They, plus our Minimal Impact Bushwalking Code, are this month's centrefold.
TO ALL INTENDING IT CONTRIBUTORSI
Please help your Editor by observing IT closing dates!
ALL information on proposed walks MUST be handed to the Walks Secretary before IT closing date.
Help! Please send more walk reports, previews, Letters to the Editor and other suitable articles! CONS1TIU11ON OF THE CANBERRA BUSHWALKING CLUB INC. (Last Changed - August 1989)
The name of the association shall be the Canberra Bushwalking Club Incorporated.
c,Ji!JpqL
2.1 To promote bushwalking and allied outdoor activities. 2.2 To foster appreciation and conservation of the Australian countryside, bushlands, fauna and flora and to encourage field studies. 2.3 To support the establishment and preservation of national parks and wilderness areas. 2.4 To compile bushwalking information, 2.5 To co-operate with organisations and persons having similar interests and objectives. 2.6 To maintain a search and rescue capacity.
MEMBERSHIP;
3.1 Membership shall be open to persons over 16 years of age who have completed at least one Club trip, subject to the following conditions: 3.1.1 Prospective members shall be proposed and seconded by members of the Club. 3.1.2 Every application for membership shall be submitted on the approved form to the Committee for - consideration. 3.2 Membership shall consist of Ordinary Members, Household Members and Honorary Life Members. 3.2.1 Orcinarv Members shall be individuals paying the full annual subscription. 3.2.2 Household MembershiD shall cover not more than two adults. 3.2.3 Honorary Life Members may be persons who have rendered meritorious service to or on behalf of the Club. They may be elected Life members by a majority of members present at a General Meeting, provided that at least fIve days notice of the recommendation has been given in writing. An Honorary Lile member shall for all purposes be considered a financial member of the Club. 3.3 Members shall receive one copy of each monthly newsletter or any other notice. 3.4 The Committee shall have the right to revoke the membership of any member who has acted contrary to the Constitution or rules of the Club, subject to appeal to a meeting of members.
4.1 Subscriptions for Ordinary and Household membership shall be determined at the meeting two months before the Annual General Meeting, with effect from July 1985. 4.2 SubscrIptions shall be due at and from the close of the Annual General Meeting. 4.3 Persons applying for membership between six and ten months after the date on which the subscriptions fall due shall pay half the subscription for the current year. Persons applying later than ten months into the year shall be admitted to membership upon payment in full of subscription for the following year. 4.4 Any member whose subscription is in arrears for more than three months from the date when the subscription became due shall be deemed to be unfinancial and be debarred from the privileges of membership, but may on payment of the overdue subscription be re-instated.
OOMMIITEE:
5.1 There shall be a Committee which is empowered to conduct the affairs of the Club in a proper manner, in particular the Committee shall have the power to: 5.1.1 Manage the finances of the Club. 5.1.2 Purchase and sell property, equipment and services for any purpose related to the objects of the Club provided that prior notice of any such transaction is given to members of the Club. 5.1.3 Hire, lend and maintain property and equipment owned by the Club. 5.1.4 Appoint sub-committees for carrying out particular functions or projects. 5.2 Committee members of the Club shall be Ordinary, Household or Honorary Life Members of the Club and the Committee shall consist of: 5.2.1 A President 5.2.2 A Vice-PresidenVTreasurer 5.2.3 A Minutes Secretary .3, - c --.• 5.2,4 A Correspondence Secretary 5.2.5 A Walks Secretary 5.2.6 An Assistant Walks Secretary 5.2.7 A Membership Secretary 5.2.8 A Social Secretary 5.2.9 An Editor 5.2.10 A Publisher 5.2.11 A Conservation Officer
5.3 The Committee shall be elected each year at the Annual General Meeting.
5.4 Any casual vacancy occurring during the year may be filled by the Committee.
5.5 The same person shall not hold the position of President for more than two consecutive years
5.6 A Committee member may be removed from office by resolution of a majority of members present at a General Meeting, provided at least five days notice in writing has been given to all members. Any vacancy so created may only be filled by a person approved by a majority of members at a General Meeting.
6. FINANCE:
6.1 The financial year shall be from September ito August 31.
6.2 The funds of the Club shall be kept in a bank account in the name of the Club in such bank as determined by the Committee. The President Vice-PresidenVTreasurer and two secretaries shall have authority to operate the account
6.3 Payments greater than ten dollars shall be made by cheque, signed by any two of those authorised.
6.4 The Vice-PresidenVTreasurer shall maintain accounts and keep records of the financial transactions of the Club.
6.5 Audited statements of the accounts of the Club shall be presented at each Annual General Meeting.
6.6 An Auditor, not being a member of the Club, shall be appointed at each Annual General Meeting !and shall be eligible for re-appointment If the office becomes vacant during the year, the Committee shall appoint a person to fill this position until the next Annual General Meeting. The Auditor may be removed from office by a resolution carried by a majority of member at a General Meeting.
MEETINGS:
7.1 General Meetings 7.1.1 May be called by the Committee at its discretion. 7.1.2 Fifteen members shall constitute a quorum. 7.1.3 At least fIve days notice in writing shall be given to members. 7.2 Exfraordinaq General Meetings: 1.2.1 May be called by and at the discretion of the President 7.2.2 Shall be called by the Committee within 21 days of the receipt of a request to do so, signed by at least ten members. - 7.2.3 Fifteen members shall constitute a quorum. 7.2.4 At least five days notice in writing shall be given to all members. 7.3 Annual General Meetings: 7.3.1 Shall be called by the Committee in September each year. 7.3.2 Fifteen members shall constitute a quorum. 7.3.3 At least five days notice in writing shall be given to all members. Voting at any meeting shall be restricted to financial members of the Club actually present atthe meeting. In the event of a even vote, the Chairman shall have the right to make a casting vote in addition to a deliberative vote. 7.4 Committee Meetings 1.4.1 May be called by and at the discretion of the President 7.4.2 May be called by and at the discretion of the Committee. 7.4.3 One-half of the Committee shall constitute a quorum. Voting at any Committee meeting shall be restricted to Committee members present at the meeting. In the event of an even vote, the Chairperson shall have the right to make a casting vote in addition to a deliberative vote.
PUBUCA11O4;
8.1 Newsletter: 8.1.1 The Club shall publish a monthly newsletter, for distribution to all members. 8.1.2 An amount to cover the cost of production shall be determined each year the same time as subscriptions. The price of 12 issues shall be included in each member's annual subscription and this amount shall be separately accounted for in the Annual Accounts. 8.2 Other publications: 8.2.1 The Club may publish material relating to the promotion of its alms. 8.2.2 Costs of production and proceeds from sales shall be separately accounted for in the Annual Accounts.
LiABILiTY;
The liability of individual members of the Club in respect of any claims arising out of the activities of the Club is restricted to the amount of their annual subscription.
AMENDMENTS AND BY-LAWS: 4 10.1 Amendments to the Constitution may be passed by a majority of members present at a General Meeting, provided that at least five days notice has been given in writing to all members.
10.2 By-laws may be proposed by any member and will be adopted by the Club if passed by a majority of members at a General Meeting.
10,3 Amendments to the Constitution shall be notified in writing to all members within two months of adoption.
10.4 Adoption, amendment, or repeal of a By-law shall be notified in writing to all members within two months.
ii. aE&
11.1 The Club shall have a seal bearing its name. 11.2 The seal shall not be affixed to any instrument except by the authority of the Committee. 11.3 The seal, when affixed to any instrument shall be witnessed by the signatures of two members of the Committee.
12, PUBliC OFFICER:
12.1 The Committee shall, within 14 days after incorporation of the Club, or within 14 days after a vacancy occurs in the office of the Public Officer, appoint a person residing in the Australian Capital Territory to be the Public Officer of the Club, The Public Officer may be removed from office by a resolution carried by a majority of members at a General Meeting. 12.2 The Public Officer shall carry out the duties required to be carried out by the Public Officer under the provisions of the 'Associations Incorporation Ordinance 1953 - 1966'.
CANBERRA BUSHWALKING CLUB INCORPORATED - BY-LAWS (Last changed - August 1989)
0. INTERPRETATION: 0.1 A 'trip' in these by-laws means any excursion for bushwalking, or allied outdoor activity that has been notified in the Club newsletter, or at a General Meeting.
ENVIRONMENT AND CONSERVATION: 1.1 On Club trips all rubbish must be carried out 1.2 Aluminium foil must not be burnt on campfires. 1.3 Pets are not allowed on Club trips.
CLUB EQUIPMENT: 2.1 Priority for hire of Club equipment shall be: Club members on Club tips; Non-Club members on Club trips; ¼. Club members on non-Club trips. Equipment is not available for non-members on non-Club trips. 2.2 Charges for use of equipment are determined by the Committee. 2.3 Charges may vary between items but not between hirers.
3. MEMBERSHIP: 3.1 The Committee may determine that Ordinary Members, or Household Members who can demonstrate special circumstances of hardship may receive an annual subscription rebate as determined by the Committee, 3.2 The receipt of a rebate to the annual subscription will not affect the recipient's standing as a member.
4. MEETINGS: 4.1 General: - 4.2 Committee: 4.2.1 The Chairperson may invite persons who are not members of the Committee to attend Committee Meetings.
5. ADMINISTRATION: 5.1 The Constitution and By-laws shall be published annually in the monthly newsletter. 5.2 Each trip participant shall contribute an equal share to the transport cost of the trip as determined in accordance with the formula: Dx Rx V N where D is the round trip distance travelled by a vehicle in kilometres R is the transport rate for trips V is the number of vehicles provided N is the number of trip participants. Each provider of a vehicle shall be paid an equal share of the contributions of all participants. 5.3 Atrip leader may vary the transport cost formulato take account of special circumstances including bad roads, extra distance travelled by some vehicles, or unusually large vehicles. 5.4 The Committee shall review the transport rate for tips at least annually and submit proposed revisions for ratification by a General Meeting. 5.5 The transport rate for tips shall be determined assuming a reference vehicle that Is capable of accommodating 4 people and 4 weekend packs, is driven 15000 kilomefres per annum, and has an engine capacity of 2 litres. The standard transport rate shall be determined for the reference vehicle by the formula: D+4xR 3 3 where D is the depreciation per kilometre where R is the running cost per kilometre as published from time to time by the NRMA.
6. FINANCE 6.1 Separate allocations for: General Purpose, Conservation, - Publications, and Search and Rescue funds shall be maintained and accounted for in the Annual Accounts. publication of the monthly newsletter shall be funded from and separately identified in General Purpose allocations. 6.2 All expenditure shall be financed from the fund specified for that activity. The surplus or deficit of individual funds shall be carried forward to the following Club financial year. A fund may not be in deficit at the end of two consecutive Club financial years. 6.3 The annual budget allocation for the Search and Rescue fund shall be sufficient to maintain the fund at not less than the transport cost of 2000 kilometres at The transport rate for trips. 6.4 The Club shall pay on request to a member who provides a vehicle for use in a Search and Rescue operation the cost of transport at the transport rate for trips, subject to availability of funds in the Search and Rescue fund-
7. IBi: 7.1 A trip leader may reject an applicant for a trip if the leader considers that the applicant is unsuitable. 7.2 The number of participants on a trip shall not exceed 16 unless the Walk Secretary or Assistant Walk Secretary has given approval.
CANBERRA BUSHWAUCING CLUB - MINIMAL IMPACT BUSHWALKING CODE (Last Changed - August 1990)
The need for long tracts of duckboard in the popular walking areas of Kosciusko and elsewhere to control erosion and damage to plant species, discarded drink cans and ugly campfire rings piled with tins and bottles, all testify to the impact recreationists have had on the environment.
Two decades ago care for the environment did not seem to matter much. We threw our cans on the fire or buried them. Now it is different. There are so many more people using wilderness areas. The code below, compiled from several sources, gives posit We steps that we can take to minimise our impact on the resource that provides us with so much pleasure.
CAMPS(TES
1.1 Use an existing campsite rather than make a new one in the same area. Setting up camp will be easier and additional ground cover will not be damaged. Leaders should limit the size of their party, especially in sensitive areas. 1.2 Bring your own tent poles or use dead timber. Never cut live trees for poles. 1.3 Use of sensitive areas requires special care. Do not camp in the catchment of glacial lakes. CAMPFIRES
2.1 Fires should not be lit in sensitive areas, such as sub-alpine regions. Stoves must be used in high-use areas (note: in some areas, for example Tasmania, legislation prescribes "stove only areas). 2.2 Use established firesites wherever possible. Distribute ashes and unused firewood. Spread leaf litter or soil over the firesite. In sandy soil bury ashes. 2.3 Use only fallen, dead wood for fires. 2.4 Don't make fires near trunks of trees, on roots, on peaty soil, or where the fire could spread. 2.5 Quench the fire completely. Keep water handy to control the fire should it spread. 2.6 Don't even think of lighting a fire or stove during a total fire ban! 2.7 Don't dispose of aluminium foil, plastics or cans by burning (note: some containers appear to be made of carboard but can be lined with foiD. When in doubt carry it out! Don't dispose of other material unless the fire is very hot and you are sure that it will be reduced to ash, 2.8 Exercise care with stoves. Do not allow excess pressure which may cause safety valve ignition. SANITATiON
3.1 Bury human wastes. Take a trowel and dig a small hole well away from any open water. 3,2 If in snow bum toilet paper after use, (or use snow!). 3.3 Disposal of human waste at heavily-used campsites requires more effort. Op much farther away! 3.4 Wash well away from streams and ensure that soap, detergents and food refuse do not enter watercourses. When cleaning utensils use gritty sand rather than soap. RUBBISH
4.1 Apply the 'carry in, carry out " rule. This applies to orange peel, fruit cores, sanitary items, seeds and egg shells. Remember to take some plastic bags. 4.2 Before leaving a lunch spot or campsite check that no rubbish is left.
5. TRACCSANDROLTES
5.1 Go in small parties and tread carefully to avoid damaging vegetation. Use stepping stones in eroded areas if available. 5.2 Limit walking in areas that have been over-used. 5.3 Minimise walking on loose ground, scree slopes, dunes, marshes and bogs. 5.4 Keep to marked or formed tracks. Do not take short cuts on zig-zag tracks. 8. FLORAAND FAUNA
6.1 Native flora and fauna should be left undisturbed. Do not kill snakes. 6.2 Do not take domestic animals on walks. 6.3 Report sightings of feral animals, illegal forest grazing or illegal use of protected areas (eg. wood cutting or removal of rocks) to park or forest authorities as appropriate. 7. NOISE
7.1 Radios and cassette players should be left at home
IN SUMMARY - BE PREPARED AND BE INFORMEDI ACtMhJ Programme
Transport costs are presently 25 cents per kilometre per car divided equally among ALL participants. This amount is a guide only and can be varied at the discretion of the leader depending on the condition of the roads, the number of passengers per car, and other factors. The figures given for inthvidual trips are rough estimates only, based on four people per car - the cost may rise if cars are only partly filled.
Check-in I Contact Officer for the club is Chris Leslie 251 6123(h). He (NOT the Police or other bodies) should be the first point of contact for worried relatives if you are late returning from a trip. Leaders mis also report the safe return OR cancellation of their trip to the check-in officer.
SatLrclay 13 Jidy - Moist Lilcoti - M/ll Mount Lincoln (also known as Mount Walman) is a 1470 metre peak in the Booroomba Rocks area. We walk in from Smokers Trail through open and varied terrain for views over Blue Gum Creek back towards Canberra. Map: Corin Dam 1:25000. Lssevt Debi Williams 250 6200(w) & Allan Micketsen 254 0764(h), 264 3472(w). Transport cost about $8.
J4 13-14- SklTcts .Momand, -M/Iã Becoming an annual tradition - at least on the programme. A trip for at least slightly experienced skiers to visit a rarely skied area. Just which area? That will depend on snow conditions. The trip will involve gentle touring rather than camp-and-practice-on-downhill-slope. Snow camping. Map: Tantangara 1:100000 (hopefully). Leader. Alan Vkiler 254 5373(h). Transport cost about $25.
Juiyl3-14 - Folly PoW (CataiBudawangs) - hR In from "Bangor'. Track walking to the Vines, then out to Folly Point. Camp on Castle Head for the most impressive views of the Budawangs. After Sluice Box Falls we will follow the southern cliffs of Mt Sturgiss and walk out along Sallee Creek. Map: CMW Budawangs LealLc Eddy De Wikle 282 3935(h). Transport cost about $16.
Stmday Judy 14- SkI Thp - Pedeher to Charlottes Pass - S/F Re-run of trip of 30 June - anticipating no snow then! This is a trip for relative beginners. I have indicated to some of my colleagues at work that I would take them on "an introductory XC ski trip" so come along to see some great views without the need for much expertise. Map: Mount Kosciusko 1:50000. Leader John Kyalt 238 251 7(h), 275 2222(w) - switchboard only so ask for John. Transport cost about $30.
Sisiday 14 Judy - Jotrfs Peak and beyond - IVR Climb via the Camels Back trail to John's Peak and explore further to the cliffs on the western side. Rock scrambling, some rope assisted perhaps, will be required, and steep boulder screes will be encountered. See astonishing views from various vantage points. Map: 1)cibinbllla 1:25000. I ant9 Chris Leslie2Sl 6123(h) 251 3400(w). Transport cost about $7.
Satitday 20 Judy - Moist Gudge.ty - WM-R Mount Gudgenby is a spectacular granite capped 1739 metre peak in the Southern ACT offering panoramic views of the other ACT peaks, the Tinderrys, and as far as Jagungal in the Kosciusko National Park. We will walk through Boboyan Pine Forest and up a less scrubby route on the south of the mountain. Map: Yaouk 1:25000 & ACT 1:100000. I..eedets: Janet Duncan 288 1398(h) & Allan Mikkelsen 254 0764(h) 264 3472(w). Transport cost about $9.
Judy 20-21 - Ski Talc - Gi*hega Power Staiion - ScNk* Pass - Valettlies Hut - Mft.l If the weather is good we shall go up onto the Kerries. Otherwise we will go through Schlink Pass and along Duck Creek. Map: Mount Kosciusko 1:50000. Le&lec David Campbell 254 1511(h), 246 9156(w). Transport cost about $25.
Judy 20-21 - Ski Tot, - Mumyang to Jagungal area - 1dM We will traverse the Kerries and camp between Mawson's Hut and Mt Jagungal. On Sunday Mt Jagungal will be visited and the return trip will be via Tin Hut and Disappointment Spur. Experienced skiers Maps: Mount Kosciusko & Khancoban 1:50000. Leader. lan Wright 286 1473(h), 272 5072(w). Transport cost about $25. Siriday 21 Jily - Greasy Creek, Serty, BaK Motnaln and the Sea Valsy - LIM From the road near the southern edge of the ACT we will follow Grassy Creek upstream to the Boboyan Divide and the rook slabs and isolated boulder arrangements on Sentry Box Mountain for lunch, with an optional extension to Sentry Box Rock. Return down the picturesque Naas Valley. Map: Yaouk 1:25000 & ACT 1:100000. Leaden David Truman 254 6700(h) 272 4632(w). Transport cost about $10.
SOtzzday2lJSy-MotnWeejasper- LIE A walk on part of the Hume and Novell Track from Fitzpatrick trackhead near Wee Jasper to the summit of Mount Wee Jasper. There should be good views of the Brindabellas and of Burrinjuck. 16 km walk with a total climb of 700 metres. Map: Courabago 1:25000 or Brindabella 1:100000 or Hume and Novell Brochure 19. Leaden A//an Mikkelsen 254 0764(h) 264 3472(w). Transport cost about $11.
Jug 27-0 - SkI Tow - So.Ah of T)redbo - PVM A touring, snow camping trip in the Brodie's Camp area past Cascade Hut (snow permitting) intended for those who can ski but are not necessarily experts - trips to Paradise or Purgatory for the more experienced and enthusiastic, depending on what takes their fancy. Map: Thredbo 1:50000. laei.AIan Wiir254 5373(h). Transport cost about $26.
Jilt 27-0 - Moist McKealfle from Orroral - WM-R - From Orroral we walk on track to the base of Mount Mckeahnie and climb a boulder strewn spur opposite Eighty Acres. Camp will be in a saddle below the summit. On Sunday we will explore some of the rook formations in the summit area before returning down the Orroral Valley. Map: Corin Dam 1:25000. Leader Richard Bain 257 4516(h). Transport cost about $8.
Sisiday m 28 - Ski Tow - Peilaher to Chailottes Pass - WE This is a trip suitable for relative beginners without the need for much expertise. Map: Mount Kosciusko 1:50000. I awlw. Margot Simington 2863898(h), 2653926(w). Transport about $30.
Stnthy28Juiy-BIy By Rocks - WE-M Billy Billy Rocks is a very impressive granite outcrop between Smokers Gap on the Corin Dam Road and Tidbinbilla. The approach will be through light scrub with plenty of time for scrambling and exploring the rocks and taking in the impressive views, Map: Corin Dam & Tk/bir,bil/a 1:25000 or ACT 1:100000. Leader. A//an Mikke/sen 254 0764(h) 264 3472(w). Transport cost about $7.
M9a3.4 - SidToit-BarRIdge - 1kM We will approach from the east, through Brassy Gap, snow conditions permitting. Suitable for intermediate skiers. Snow cover may be thin in places. Map: Mount Kosciusko 1:50000. I mat4g, Rod Peters 251 2580(h), 280 3721w). Transport cost about $25.
Acust 3-4 - SkI Tows - Day Tts - Leatherbarrel Creek - 1kM Saturday3August-JerusalemHill. Sunday 4 August - Upper Thredbo Riv.er Two day trips from Dead Horse Gap. We will camp at Leatherbarrel Creek, a comfortable campsite well below the snowline with plenty of gluhwein etc. Bookings will be accepted for either or (preferably) both days. Map: Thredbo 1:50000. Leaden 811/ Brown 248 9948(h), 276 4984(w). Transport cost about $25.
Aaia 3-4 - Budawangs - Yadboro - Newhaven Gap car swap - M/R Don't miss this trip if you like the Budawangs, or would like to get to know them, or wonder why the regulars rave about them. See preview this It Maps: CMW Budawangs or Endrick & Corang 1:25000. Leaders: A/an WI/er 254 5373(h) & A//an Mikkelsen. Transport about $25.
Sinday 4 Auguat - Hal and One Wee H - WE Start mid-morning, back for tea and crumpets. Those preferring a Short/Easy (Oh ye of lesser stamina!) may divert to the coffee shop in Hall to be picked up on the way back. Map: Hall 1:50000 or ACT 1:100000. Leader Keith Sayers 258 3268(h) 289 6219(w). Transport cost about $4. SLnday 4 August - The Pknple train 'fldbbb4a - M/M This is a rocky pinnacle on the western side of the Tidbinbilla Range. We will climb a ridge from the Cascade Trail, walk out to the Pimple, visit Tidbinbilla Mountain and return down a ridge to the Lyre-bird Trail. Map: Tidbinbulla 1:25000. Leader. George Caner 251 2130(h) 263 3549(w). Transport cost about $7.
Satisday August 10 - Gkigera In the an - LIE-PA A scenic walk from Corin Dam which climbs to the summit of Gingera, the (usually) snow covered mountain visible from central Canberra. Good views in all directions including to Jagungal. On the return we will have tea and a roaring fire at Pryor's Hut. Map: Corin Dam 1:25000. I awt-• Allan Mikkelsen 254 0764(h) 264 3472(w). Transport cost about $9.
August 10-11- SkI Tots - The Kenissi Fkiw Swamp and beyond - WM-R The plan is to ski up Disappointment Spur then down to Finn's Swamp to camp about lunch time. In the afternoon I hope to explore the country, new to me, to the east. Sunday's return will have a detour to historic Tin Hut and a run along the Kerries. As usual, all this is subject to weather and snow. Map: Mount Kosciusko 1:50000. Leader. Alan Vkiler. 254 5373(h). Transport cost about $28.
Augast 10-I1 - MOInBInbGII - LIM From Orroral Valley we cross over to Nursery then Rendezvpus Creeks. Creamy Flats Creek will then lead us west to Murrays Gap fire trail. Camp will be made in a beaut clearing below Bimberi. If you want to notch up a winter ascent of ACTs highest then pack your woollies and join me. Map: Rendezvous Creek 1:25000. Leader. Eddy De Wide 282 3935(h). Transport cost about $8.
Swuday August 11 - Gudgeity Rtver Gorge near Itwiwa - WE ____ A pleasant stroll through a scenic gorge. Map: Wulliarnsdalel :250000r ACT1 :100000. 1 tCS Margaret Cole 288 6947(h). Transport cost about $5.
80urday17Au'4-SkIToss-Teddy'sHtt - MM From below Dead Horse Gap we will follow the Thredbo River to Teddy's Hut. The return trip will be via Brindle Bull HilL Map: Thredbo 1:50000. Leader Allan Anderson 288 0112(h). Transport cost about $26. -
Augiflhl-18 - SldTou'-theCl*nneys - PeVM Base camp at Sams Camp. Ski along the Chimneys without packs. Return over the Brindle Bull. Map: Thredbo 1:50000. Leader Mike Morriss 288 6847(h) 2893422(w). Cost about $26.
Suiday lSAtqmt-Motfl Clew - IVM From Mt Clear campground we will head east by the fire trail to a kilometre past a creek junction, then climb 500 metres by a southeast ridge to have lunch on the summit of Mt Clear. Return will be at first south by the fire trail, then northwest across Top Flats. Map: Bredbo & Colinton 1:25000. LaSer David Truman2s4 6700(h) 272 4632(w).TranspOrt cost about $9.
AIds 24-25 - Budawange - Hoddle, Hat4ton, Tam - LIlA A vitht to a less frequented area of Budawangs, and camp in a sandstone cave on Mt Haughton overlooking the mighty Hollands Gorge and the Pagoda Rocks. Anybody willing to find a way up Hoddles Castle Hill? Map: CMWBudawang& Leader. Chris Leslie 251 6123(h) 251 3400(w). Transport cost about $16.
August 24-25 - Bid Tots - lglocWSnow Cave T4 - WE Hard Wait A chance to try your skills in snow architecture and sleep in the result. I plan to take the chair from Thredbo then a short ski to a suitable snow drift. Saturday will be spent on construction. On Sunday you have a chance to ski around the tops. Map: Thredbo 1:50000. Leader Bill Brown 248 9948(h), 276 4984(w). Transport cost about $25.
Stziday 25 Augis - Dttibo Pals - IoVM-R Spectacular falls west of the Brindabellas. We will follow the track down from Otto's Hill to the Goobragandra River then continue upstream to see the cascades of Dubbo Falls joining the river. Map: Briridabella 1:25000. Leaden Geoff Wood 295 9558(h) 265 21 45(w). Transport cost about $15. ii:'] kgiS 31 -8eember 1 - Ski Tots - Thompson's PSi - WE-M A weekend's touring adjacent to the resorts with overnight accommodation provided in a lodge at Smiggin Holes (accommodation cost $22). Trip limit of 8. Bookings by 30 July. See preview this IT. Map: Mount Kosciusko 1:50000. Leadec Terence Uren 282 2403(h), 281 9422(w). Transport cost about $30.
Aids (3314epteqnber1 - Ski Tots - Grey Mare Range - LJM Friday night start and camp at Geehi. Tremendous views of the Main Range are a feature of this trip. After the initial long climb we ski as far as we like along a wooded undulating ridge (I understand the scrub covered fire trail out of Geehi has recently been cleared). Experienced skiers. Mapt Mount Kosciusko & Khancoban 1:50000. Leader. Ian Wright 286 1473(h), 272 5072(w). Transport cost about $28.
St.mday-SeØsmber 1 - SkI Tots - Deed Horse Gap to Koscthko - hUM The trip involves a steady climb through the Ramsheads and on to Mount Kosciusko. Map: Mount Kosciusko 1:50000. I -'h.. John Danaro 2922190(h), 263 2733(w). Transport cost about $26.
VsWS, - Ski Tow - Kndra - Gtghe9a - LIM Contact me if you are thinking bout this trip arid wishto do a Sr swap or participate. The classic ski tour. A weekend trip is quite feasible for fit skiers but precise navigation over the shortest route (75km) is essential. Maps: Various. Leader Ian Wright 286 1473(h), 272 5072(w).
FULL MOON TiMES
04:24 July 27 08:40 September24 08:56 November22 1907 August25 21:08 October23 20:23 December21
SUNDAY SUNRISE AND SUNSET liMES FOR CANBERRA
Day Rise Set Day Rise Set Day Rise Set Jul14 7:10 17:08 Aug 18 6:42 17:33 Sep22 5:54 17:59 Jul21 7:07 17:13 Aug25 6:33 17:38 Jul28 7:02 17:18 Sepl 6:24 17:44 Aug4 6:57 17:22 Sep8 6:14 17:49 Aug 11 6:50 17:28 Sep15 6:04 17:54
See combo issues of IT for more ilormation (and Corrections) on future actMties. including:
August 31 -Sept 1 - Monolith Valley Weekend - Work - David Campbell September 7-8 - Tullyangela Clearing - Wineglass br - Tims Creek - M/R - Alan Vidler., September 7-8 - Ski Tour - Mount Twynam, Guthega - Bill Brown September 8- Nursery Hill - M/M - Vance Brown September 8- Mount Domain from Bendora Dam - tIn - Chris Leslie September 14-15- Club Annlversary Reunion September 21-22 - Upper Mongarlowe Rlver - M/M - Mike Morriss September 21-22 - Ski Tour- Wilkinson's Valley - Rod Peters September 28-29 - Ski Tour - 2 day trips camping at Island Bend - John Kyatt Later - Currockbilly Mountain, Mt Budawang, Currawan Creek - Eddie Cheetham September - Mt Wee Jasper, Pompey Pillar and Micalong Creek - LIE - David Truman October (3)4-7 - Warrumbungles Rock Climbing I Walking - John l'ons October (4)5-7 - Axehead Range Area from Yerranderie - M-L/R - Meg McKone
Any additions or corrections to Allan Mikkelsen please.! 11
INFORMATION
Note: The Walk Secretary, Allan Mikkelsen is pleased to accept walks from leaders at any time. Please contact him to put your walk on the program.
Bookings; For trips should be made by telephoning the leader no later than 2pm on Thursday. There is a Club hmit of 16 on most walks.
Walkers: are reminded that there can be dangers associated with bushwalking and that they participate entirely at their own risk.
Equipment: for Club walks can be hired from Roger Edwards 2954598(w) 2887863(h).
Library: The Club Library is held at the home of Keith Thomas, 26 Allport Street, Downer 2487816(h) at 6 - 7.45pm on the night of Club meetings.
Grading of walks:
(5), Short - under I 2km/day (E) Easy - firetrails, tracks, beaches etc. (M) MediUm.: 1 2-20km/day (M) Medium - bush tracks, alpine areas, some scrub (L) Long - over 20km/day (R) Rough - much scrub, steep climbs, rock scrambles I) Wet - compulsory swims, many rker crossings
NOTE: In calculating distance 1 km is added for every 100 metres climbed. I NO110E TO ALL WALKERS: The leader should check that: C Each applicant is capable of completing the proposed trip. This is done by observation on previous walks or by contacting them personally and asking where, when and with whom they have walked previously. Everyone is aware of what the trip entails and of any special equipment or skills needed.
LEADERS MAY REJECT ANY APPLICANT THEY ThINK IS NOT SUITABLE FOR THE TRIP.
SEARCH & RESCUE ORGANISA11ON
S&R Contacts are: Dave Drohan 2663363(w)241 3566(h) ,David Campbell 24691 56(w)2541 511 (h),Allan Mikkelsen 2540764(h), 2643472(w).
Area Coordinators: Belconnen - Frank & Meg McKone 2541311(w) 2545902(h), Pat Miethke 2493085(w) 2412798(h), Inner Canberra - Keith Thomas 2819488(w) 2487816(h), Woden -.
OTHER CLUB OFFICERS - . Chris Leslie 251 6123(h) is the Check-in Officer, Aod Dalgleish 281 3614(h) and Sandy Lolicato 251 5441(h) are the conservation representatives, Vance Brown is the public officer, Alan Vidler is the Club record keeper and Doug Wright is the Club archivist. Roger Edwards 295 4598(w) 288 7863(h) is the Equipment Officer. Registered Publication No. NBH 1859 if undekereble return to P0 Box 160. Canberm City ACT 2601 Postage SURFACE Paid S CANBERRA CANBERRA MAIL ACT 2601 ' BUSH WALKING AUSTRALL J CLUB INC.
REDIRECTED MAIL [ for - VALLAK 51 PAVO ST WHITES HILL QLD 4152
COMMITTEE 1990- 91
- Work Home Fax
PRESIDENT: David Campbell 2469156 2541511 - VICE PRESIDENT/TREASURER: Geoff Wood 2652145 2959558 SOCIAL SECRETARY: Debi Williams 2506200 2581645 2505912 CORRESPONDENCE SECRETARY: John Thwaite 2935315 2543193 2935295 WALK SECRETARY: Allan Mikkelsen 2643472 2540764 2532405* ASSISTANT WALK SECRETARY: Chris Leslie 2513400 2516123 MEMBERSHIP SECRETARY: Alan Vidler 2545373 MINUTE SECRETARY: Janet Duncan 2862788 2881398 EDITOR: Sue Vidler 2765317 2545373 2765521..
PUBLISHER: - Eddy Do Wilde 2824877 2823935 CONSERVATION OFFICER: Mike Morriss 2886947 Ring (w) beforehand
MEMBERSHIP ENQUIRIES: RING ALAN V1DLER ON 254 5373(11 + messages any tIme)