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By Tim Ventura & Art Schatz, August 8th, 2006

At a million rounds a minute, is all about delivering firepower. Whether you’re firing bullets from a or grenades from a UGV, this unique new 21st-century weapons technology has you covered. Art Schatz takes us on a tour of the of tomorrow…

AAG: I'd like to start out by congratulating you on your recent success in the Discovery Channel's "Future Weapons" program. I'd previously read about the Metal Storm technology a few years ago in Popular Science, but hadn't realized how far along you were in the development process until I saw your stunning demonstrations on television. Can you tell us a bit about what it was like to work with Discovery on this show?

Schatz: The Discovery Channel has a very professional team and they produce widely watched programs so it was exciting for us to be working with such a fantastic team of people. We are well down the development path now and have come a long way with our engineering effort over the last 18 months. We have a number of products on the development path and we are moving to a very exciting stage with our unique technology. Discovery were so impressed with Metal Storm that they are considering doing another segment on a test range and highlighting our weapon system from the operational standpoint.

AAG: How did the concept for Metal Storm actually originate? I mean, people have been complaining about cartridges & magazines for decades, but you're the first company to radically change the equation by actually putting the magazine into the barrel and sequentially firing stacked rounds. Where did this innovative idea come from?

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Schatz: It originated from an idea the founder had that bullets could be fired from a stacked position in a rifle barrel and that the discharge of the lead bullet would not set off the remainder. The founder, Mike O’ Dwyer, was only several months old when his father died as part of an invasion force into Borneo a few days before the end of World War II. He thought that if his father had a more effective weapon he might have been able to survive and it was this aspect that drove him to consider various opportunities for the improvement of conventional weaponry. He began to conceptualize an idea and eventually took it to local gun shop to build the first prototypes which proved to be the formal genesis of Metal Storm.

AAG: Speaking of which, from watching the show it appeared that the ability to stack & fire seated in rows in the barrel really is the magic that makes the Metal Storm concept work. I understand that you use an electrochemical combustion process to ignite each round individually, and I'm wondering if you could describe the mechanism behind how this solution actually works?

Schatz: Actually it is considered electronic inductive initiation and has nothing to do electrochemical combustion. What we are able to do to is send an electronic signal down the barrel using inductive coupling to create ignition. So basically instead of having a standard mechanical hammer hitting a percussion cap to ignite propellant, we use an electronic and standard propellant. The fact that this signal is sent electronically means that we can send multiple signals down the barrel to multiple projectiles at extremely high electronic rates.

AAG: The ammunition you're firing is typically caseless, right? I can't picture this weapon being capable of ejecting traditional spent cartridges, and yet it seems like developing adds an extra design challenge to the technology. Can you tell us about the different types of Rapid Fire: Projectiles are stacked in the ammunition that you're capable of firing with this barrel and fired electronically in sequence. device?

Schatz: No, we are not using caseless ammunition and we have none of the problems that are associated with attempts to commercialize caseless ammunition. Metal Storm combines off the shelf warheads with our own unique patented tailpiece. We have fired HE, thermobaric and airburst munitions however we are also able to fire munitions according to customer requirements. The great thing about Metal Storm technology is that we can fire different munition natures simultaneously, or at variable rates of fire. We can provide for a scaled response from the same weapon pod and we are also capable of providing very rapid and intense bursts of firepower. The ability to simply and immediately select munitions to suit the operational situation is a real advantage.

AAG: It appears that many of the Metal-Storm weapons feature multiple barrels - including even the that you've constructed. It seems like this is a pervasive design element across

American Antigravity.Com Page 3 of 10 your entire line of weapons systems, but I'm wondering what advantages it conveys, especially given the already amazing capability of the Metal-Storm platform to deliver a high-rate stream of projectiles?

Schatz: When you consider that Metal Storm stacks its projectiles in the barrel, then naturally the more projectiles the longer the barrel will have to be. We have found that by using multiple barrels we gained two advantages. First, since in reality each barrel can be considered an individual weapon we can use mixed loads of munitions in a single weapon. We might have a barrel that fires sensors, another that fires flares, others that carry less-lethal projectiles with the remaining barrels carrying a variety of lethal warheads from standard HE to fragmentation to air burst or thermobaric rounds. Also, since we would want to carry a sufficient quantity of projectiles for a given mission, having the multiple barrels allows us carry enough ammo in a relatively compact weapon. Sometimes we like to refer to the Metal Storm gun as the box of ammunition that can be fired. In reality you can load the ammo in the factory, ship it, store it, then take it to the battlefield and fire it.

AAG: Speaking of which, I'd like to ask a bit more about the "Metal Storm Handgun". This was a new feature that really took me by surprise in the Discovery Special, and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on how this changes the typical dynamic for in terms of firing rate, accuracy, and ammunition expenditure?

Schatz: The handgun was a compact way of demonstrating the stacked round technology as well as incorporating numerous features that an electronic weapon allows. This included “smart gun” technology that would allow the handgun to be fired only by authorized users. While working on a grant from the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) on smart gun technology we became aware of work being conducted by the New Jersey Institute of Technology (NJIT) on a Dynamic Grip Recognition (DGR) technology, and we have been working with them since to marry our technologies. The ballistic characteristics and performance of the handgun in terms of rates of fire, accuracy and ammunition expenditure are similar to conventional handguns. Metal Storm's current activities are really focused on our 40 mm systems however we will continue to explore any opportunities for the handgun for the Handgun: The O’ Dwyer VLE Smartgun is the future. world’s first all-electronic “solid-state” handgun.

AAG: So many different aspects of the Metal Storm technology are such radical departures from traditional weapons that I can't help but wonder how difficult the early prototypes were to design, construct, and troubleshoot. I mean, you've changed so many paradigms in terms of barrels, firing rate, ammunition, and configuration that I'm wondering if you've encountered any difficulties in the integration process?

Schatz: The prototypes we have built have worked very well indeed and the technology has performed as expected. There are the normal technical challenges in any new effort but we are very happy with regard to the developments to date. For example, our Redback weapon system and the 3 shot are all progressing well. We have a strong and very capable engineering team aboard now and integrating all the elements of the technology has become

American Antigravity.Com Page 4 of 10 more streamlined for us. We have moved forward a long way with the technology in recent times. Ignition systems, fire control systems and munitions have all advanced markedly just in the last 18 months and those elements will all be integrated into the products we have selected to bring to market in the short-term.

AAG: Your current designs appear to integrate the Metal Storm technology into rather conventional packages, but given the number and scope of advances that you've made to technology, do you believe that as Metal Storm evolves it may begin to change the shape of the weapon altogether? Will the rifle that we see now disappear to be replaced with something that may appear almost unrecognizable to us at present?

Schatz: While that might be a possibility, and the capability to do that is ever present, it’s hard to change perceptions as to what a weapon should look and feel like. For the near term, as we progress, we prefer to keep the fit, form and function recognizable so as not to have to try to educate a new generation of end users to a totally new concept in look and feel. Once we have made substantial inroads into a market, we can then afford the time and energy to ‘experiment’ with new look weapons, but only if they provide beneficial capability to soldiers.

AAG: Right now the Metal Storm technology & primary claim is the firing rate -- over a million rounds a minute for some models, as I recall. However, for many applications, especially those served by conventional assault , the high-rate may not be required. What are some of the other key selling points for this technology?

Schatz: That is a major misconception regarding Metal Storm. While initially the high firing rate was a differentiator, and caught ones attention, the true primary claim is the fact that we can fire at any rate that we select, and firing rates must be recognized as just that, “rates of fire:” not rounds fired. Its like driving at 100mph; you don’t necessarily travel 100 miles of distance. The real advantage is the terminal effect benefit that a particular rate of fire delivers. For example 10 rounds delivered at a high rate of fire will arrive on target at almost the same time like a swarm of bees and the effect can be very powerful compared with conventional delivery. This is where Metal Storm’s selectable rates of fire and selectable munitions provide a capability advantage. AICW: This next-generation infantry weapon has a Metal Storm 40mm grenade launcher. AAG: Now in terms of firing rate, the part that scares me is ammunition expenditure. I've heard that the reason the modern M-16 is limited to 3-round bursts is to reduce the necessity for logistics to carry ammunition across hostile terrain to resupply the troops. Will this high firing rate put an additional burden on logistical support to supply more ammunition, and does the profile of your magazines & cartridges perhaps allow a soldier to carry more ammunition with him because of the smaller magazine sizes?

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Schatz: It is a myth to suggest that Metal Storm requires additional munitions to conventional systems. We can control the rate of fire very accurately with the fire control computer so that ammunition is used in the most optimal fashion for the task at hand. The improvement in capability comes from how you fire the munitions, not the quantity fired. Logistically the requirement should not change. Reload is also available in either a multi-shot or as a single round load/unload capability. This allows a firer to top up during a lull in a firefight just the same as a comparable conventional weapon.

AAG: Another question that haunts me about the Metal Storm technology is how you deal with heat-dissipation from the barrel during firing. After all, my understanding is the rotating barrel of the mini-gun serves primary to give the barrels a chance to cool in between rounds, but with the Metal Storm technology, not only are all your barrels presumably firing, but they're also firing at a much faster rate. Any thoughts on keeping the barrels cool?

Schatz: It is simply not an issue at all. The reason for this is because the rounds are stacked in the barrel, the firing point moves down the barrel as each round is fired, so the heat and pressure is not concentrated in one place In a conventional weapon the firing point is in the chamber for every round and heat build up can be significant. That difficulty does not apply to Metal Storm’s technology where the ignition point changes for each round. The weapons remain quite cool even during intense or rapid fire scenarios.

AAG: I guess the other barrel-related question is about what happens to misfires. The Discovery special indicated that if a round fails to fire, it does block the barrel, but that it can be easily ejected by simply firing the next round behind it, giving it a push out the front. However, can't this lead to overpressure in the barrel, increasing the possibility of a barrel rupture in the process?

Schatz: We have fired numerous rounds to purposely simulate a misfire. When a round is determined not to have been fired, the system can automatically shut down the firing sequence of that barrel. That’s the beauty of the Metal Storm system, with multiple barrels, the shutting down of a single barrel still allows the weapon to be effective in battle. The safe option is to close the particular barrel down or simply change the munition cartridge. In an operational scenario where a soldier’s life depended on the weapon firing, he can fire the follow on round to clear the barrel. Compared to a conventional weapon this option ADWS Control: A computer-controlled firing may be a life saver. system for the Area Denial Weapon System.

AAG: In my view, one of the big-breakthroughs with the Metal Storm technology is the electronic ignition for your ammunition, which seems like a great way to bring firearms into the 21st century by allowing a more effective integration with computer-driven systems. I think that you've already started to capitalize on this with the remote-sentry gun pods, and I'm wondering how you see this marriage of computers & systems evolving over time.

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Schatz: The more we develop the technology, the more sophisticated and educated we become with the electronic ignition, materials research, battery capacity (although a minor aspect of the technology as power requirements for firing are minimal) and the use of newer and smaller electronic components, the better we are able to package weapons into existing and future systems. We feel that we are a natural fit to the electronic battlefield. Our systems lend themselves well to networked command, control and communications systems. By using these capabilities the battlefield of the future becomes even more inviting to our technology and capabilities.

AAG: For the smaller handheld weapons, do you see computer systems & electronic firing control taking over tasks like calculating for windage that the soldier currently does using calibration settings on the sights? What about the notion of "smart rounds" to let the soldier select different types of ammunition automatically depending on the target the gun is pointed at? Any future notions in this area?

Schatz: The technologies to provide a soldier with all the capabilities you mention are all available. They are all a capability trade off in terms of weight and cost. Its not that it can’t be done, its more about what countries and militaries can afford. Programmable fusing will work beautifully with Metal Storm systems however they are expensive and many countries are not willing to fund this capability at the expense of not having other capabilities.

AAG: The Metal Storm videos page features a number of demonstrations involving remotely- piloted tank-like vehicles outfitted with Metal Storm technologies firing everything from small- caliber ammunition all the way up to what appears to be tank-rounds. Can you tell us a bit about how & why you've built RPV's with this capability?

Schatz: Metal Storm builds weapon systems and the demonstration footage you refer to shows a UGV which was provided by another company. What Metal Storm provides is a weapon which is light, very capable offensively, and which does not require manual assistance to undertake the mission. Conventional weapons require complex servos systems to operate the and also manual reloading and support in case of jamming. Metal Storm weapons overcome all those obstacles which make them ideally suited for most unmanned robotic platforms including UGVs and UAVs. The integration of Metal Storm technology onto robotic or unmanned platforms is quite straightforward. Conventional weapons simply do not offer the same level of combined simplicity and UGV: This tracked prototype has a 4-barrel, capability for unmanned platforms. 40mm Metal Storm grenade launcher.

AAG: Another interesting application is the Area Denial System, which appears to be almost like an automated, high rate of fire mortar or grenade launcher capable of being controlled remotely and stationed to completely saturate an area with explosive fire if an enemy enters a

American Antigravity.Com Page 7 of 10 given perimeter. Does this application finally give back to our ground forces a suppressive-fire capability currently dominated by air-power?

Schatz: Air power provides a greater range (distance) of coverage/engagement that a fixed site emplacement. However, for an area denial or fixed site protective system, the combination of capabilities that Metal Storm affords, along with the all weather nature of the weapon, and the centrally controlled and monitored capability of the networked solution provide obvious advantages over other systems.

AAG: On the subject of air-power, my impression has been that while a few vehicles like the Fairchild A-10 use high-rate chainguns for ground support roles, the majority of air-combat these days takes place using expensive missiles. As I recall, this worrisome reliance on missiles was even mentioned in the 1986 movie "Top Gun", and I'm wondering if the expanded capabilities of the Metal Storm system may serve to reverse this trend for air-combat?

Schatz: It depends on whether we are referring to air to ground combat or air to air combat. In the future, air to ground may allow for a response with a high explosive warhead fired from a Metal Storm weapon to be employed from distances with extreme accuracy. The air to air scenario is rarely used in today’s modern warfare using ‘bullets’, with missiles being the preferred method of engagement. For those few instances where the bullet engagement is employed, we do not foresee a Metal Storm solution as being a viable option. We are still focusing on the 40mm range of weapons for earliest deployment. We are currently delivering low velocity systems however we are commencing high velocity development which will provide a much greater range for our systems. We expect Metal Storm systems to be very capable in defense against the ever increasing number Gun Pods: This Metal Storm concept weapon is of UAVs on the battlefield. designed to lay down a powerful suppressing fire.

AAG: Speaking of ground support, the chaingun on the Fairchild A-10 is one of the really unique features of that aircraft, but I'm guessing that it's far too heavy for most modern aircraft to carry. For ground support roles, does the Metal Storm technology potentially offer the opportunity for any aircraft to lay down the massive suppressing firepower previously reversed only for a specialty aircraft like the A-10 aircraft?

Schatz: In light of the former response, you must also take into account the laws of physics and ballistics. Metal Storm does not change these laws, and while accuracy, velocity and recoil are functions of these laws, Metal Storm does not violate them. In other words, with “massive fire power” comes massive recoil, and airframe limitations must also be considered. Rates of fire high enough to exceed that of conventional weapons must be weighed against flight characteristics, aerodynamic effects and structural limitations of the airframe in question.

AAG: On another note, in terms of cost effectiveness, would be it optimistic to hope that the benefits of the Metal Storm technology may also give new life to older ground-assault vehicles

American Antigravity.Com Page 8 of 10 that might otherwise be considered an antiquated part of our arsenal, perhaps saving us from having to replace them?

Schatz: Those are questions to be answered by operational commanders and logisticians who will weigh benefits against costs. If upgrading the effectiveness of a weapon system employed on an outdated vehicle has a benefit, when weighed against the overall costs, fuel efficiency and maintenance/modification costs makes sense, it is a decision that can be debated on a case by case basis. The benefit of a Metal Storm system in scenarios like you suggest is more the support we can give to legacy systems. For example, a small multi barrel 40mm system supporting a 50 cal weapon is possible or even a small multi barrel pod of mixed munitions supporting a conventional grenade launcher to provide additional and immediate munition options.

AAG: I'd also like to touch on a safety concern: since the Metal Storm technology relies entirely on an electronic ignition system for each round it fires, does that provide you with the ability to deploy a safety system into these weapons allowing a remote-system lockout in the event that they're captured by the enemy during battle?

Schatz: The benefit of an electronic system is that you can control it and add any feature that benefits the user. The ability to ‘safe’ or to self destruct in a given circumstance are all options available from electronic systems and will fit easily with our systems.

AAG: Speaking of safety, could this same concept of remote-lockout also be implemented with some kind of IFF transponder tag on troops and ground- support units to effectively prevent friendly- fire casualties during the heat of battle? ADWS: The four long barrels on the Area Denial Weapon System before a live-fire demonstration. Schatz: Electronics provide developers and end users with a choice of options and the scenario you have outlined is achievable. While technology can assist in preventing friendly fire casualties, battle is a fluid and complex set of circumstances and there is always a human element to contend with in the heat of battle. In the end it will be commanders employing rules of engagement and orders for opening fire, that integrate with the benefits of our technology.

AAG: Have you had any troubles with activists protesting the Metal Storm technology, and how would you respond to activist groups worried about the very effectiveness that makes this technology so appealing to the military?

Schatz: We are just like any other business in the defense and weapon industry. Our efforts are about providing quality technology to assist our own defense force and those of our allies.

AAG: Now in terms of military acceptance for this technology, have you had a good response from the defense-department so far, and do you foresee the Metal Storm technology becoming a ubiquitous component in the United States arsenal in the future?

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Schatz: We are in a transition state now from research and development to demonstrations and production readiness. This year sees us on a significant development path for a number of our products leading to demonstration opportunities in the US, Australia and Singapore commencing in 2007. The capability advantages of our published Redback weapon system are significant and it offers all the Metal Storm core technology advantages in the one system. Our 3 shot grenade launcher is designed to fit as an under slung module on a combat rifle however its primary advantage is that it provides semi-automatic fire, which allows the firer to maintain eye contact with the target, a key feature which the M203 and equivalent systems do not offer. It is almost 40 years since the M79 was phased out of service however little progress has been made to automate a modular 40mm grenade launcher for use by grenadiers at squad and platoon level. Our 3 shot grenade launcher is very much about achieving that breakthrough. Our US contracts are also progressing on similar timeframes and we are excited at the prospects they offer going forward.

AAG: Is the Metal Storm technology the final step in conventional technology? The design is so revolutionary that it's hard to imagine anything displacing it, and I wonder if that factor may not actually push future efforts into more exotic technologies like beam weapons instead of more refinements to competitive projectile-firing platforms?

Schatz: You are now entering an entirely different realm from what we would call conventional weapons and into the ‘future’ of directed energy weapons, rail and the like. Metal Storm technology is a major ballistic leap in terms of how munitions are fired, however we are very grounded about applying the technology to benefit today’s warfighters. In the end, it’s all about cost, weight and effectiveness and meeting capability requirements that suit the ever changing operational scenarios on the battlefield. It’s likely that urban operations will dominate the battlespace Extreme Ballistics: Is Metal Storm the next over the next decade or more and Metal Storm is st very well suited to that style of operation. step in 21 -century weapons technology?

Arthur Schatz is the Vice President of Business Development for Metal Storm USA, a US subsidiary of Metal Storm Limited, located in Brisbane, Australia. For more information, visit Metal Storm online at: http://www.metalstorm.com or email Art directly at: [email protected]

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