Vol. 588 Tuesday, No. 2 29 June 2004

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Tuesday, 29 June 2004.

Business of Da´il……………………………… 253 Ceisteanna—Questions Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Priority Questions …………………………… 253 Other Questions …………………………… 264 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 286 Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 287 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 293 Order of Business ……………………………… 296 Universal Postal Union: Motion ………………………… 311 International Agreement Referral to Select Committee ………………… 312 Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill 1999: Referral to Select Committee …………… 312 National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report Stage ……………… 313 Allocation of Time: Motion …………………………… 331 National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage … … … 332 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: Order for Report Stage …………………………… 337 Report Stage ……………………………… 337 Private Members’ Business Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: Motion …………………… 338 Message from Select Committee ………………………… 366 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage ………… 366 State Airports Bill 2004: Second Stage (resumed) …………………………… 380 Referral to Select Committee ………………………… 401 Commission on Electronic Voting (Further Reports) Order 2004: Motion …………… 401 Adjournment Debate Civil Defence Board …………………………… 412 Harbours and Piers …………………………… 415 Health Board Services …………………………… 417 Visa Applications ……………………………… 420 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 425 253 254

DA´ IL E´ IREANN ComReg has sought a comprehensive report from each of the mobile phone companies con- ———— cerning the incidences of overcharging. Following consideration of both reports, it will decide on De´ Ma´irt, 29 Meitheamh 2004. the appropriate action, within its powers, that it Tuesday, 29 June 2004. will take. ComReg is also considering further initiatives ———— to provide information to consumers on the range of communication services. These steps will Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar ensure that consumers are sufficiently informed 2.30 p.m. to make the appropriate choices in terms of the service or package which will best suit their ———— needs. Paidir. Prayer. Mr. Coveney: Is the Minister aware of the extent and significance of overcharging in recent ———— months? Vodafone admitted to overcharging up to 22,000 customers who were roaming between 25 May and 15 June to a value of almost \150,000 Business of Da´il. and a week earlier O2 admitted to overcharging Minister of State at the Department of the approximately 70,000 customers. Both incidences Taoiseach (Ms Hanafin): It is proposed, notwith- of overcharging of roaming customers mean that standing anything in Standing Orders, that we in recent months Irish mobile phone users and now move on to questions to the Minister for customers have been overcharged to the tune of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, approximately \650,000. which shall conclude at 4.15 p.m. What is at issue is not whether these people have been repaid or their accounts reimbursed An Ceann Comhairle: Is that agreed? Agreed. but the fact that almost 100,000 people were over- charged for roaming. That is unacceptable. Com- Ceisteanna — Questions. Reg recognised this and demanded a report from

O2 by 25 June, four days ago. Has either the Mini- Priority Questions. ster or ComReg seen that report? If so, what is happening with it and will it be published? ———— Mr. D. Ahern: I agree that overcharging is Mobile Telephony. unacceptable. The two companies involved admitted voluntarily to the overcharging. The 1. Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for enforcement of the regulations is a matter for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources ComReg under the legislation passed by the Da´il. if he has satisfied himself that ComReg has suf- The regulations allow the regulator to apply for a ficient powers to address recent overcharging problems in the mobile phone industry; and if he High Court order compelling compliance in cases intends to meet the regulator to discuss this where companies are unwilling to comply. Com- issue. [19619/04] Reg may also apply to the court for the impos- ition of a financial penalty on the companies. The Minister for Communications, Marine and court must, obviously, consider the circumstances Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The Com- of the non-compliance. mission for Communications Regulation, Com- I have not seen any report. ComReg is the Reg, is responsible for monitoring compliance by authority responsible for the implementation of service providers with the requirements of the the regulations and legislation. If it has received European Communities (Electronic Communi- the report, it will make decisions on foot of that cations Networks and Services) (Universal Ser- report and the circumstances in each case. vice and Users’ Rights) Regulations 3003, which are transposed as SI 308 of 2003. In accordance with the regulations and following public consul- Mr. Coveney: Does the Minister agree that the tation, ComReg has issued a draft direction on essence of the problem is that Vodafone and O2 the code of practice for tariff presentation. Com- came forward voluntarily on the overcharging ments on the draft have been sought by 30 June, issue? The regulator should have recognised that shortly after which date ComReg intends to overcharging was occurring. If both companies finalise the direction. The core objective of the had not come forward voluntarily, would Com- code is to ensure that end users have access to Reg have been aware of the overcharging to the accurate and comprehensive tariff information on value of approximately \750,000? Is the Minister publicly available telephone services. Service pro- satisfied that ComReg has sufficient powers to viders shall ensure that tariff information is accur- identify, monitor and regulate the issue of over- ate, comprehensive and accessible. charging and to penalise the companies involved? 255 Priority 29 June 2004. Questions 256

Mr. D. Ahern: As the Deputy may be aware, I support for the measures now in place for this issued ComReg with a policy direction to drive biologically sensitive area. Overall, the fishing competition in this area, to address specifically effort limits agreed last week provide the neces- the issue of high cross-Border tariffs and to allow sary protection for fish stocks in waters around smaller mobile operators to have access to the Ireland, both inside and outside the new Irish existing mobile network. This will be the ultimate Box. in driving competition. As the Deputy will be aware, a consultation process, driven by ComReg, Mr. Broughan: I thank the Minister for his is taking place in this respect. reply. Does he agree that the basic framework In all my meetings with ComReg I ask its for fishing effort, agreed last October, is still the officials whether they require more legislative baseline from which we are operating? In the case powers to drive competition in this and the wider of the north-west, he will be aware that the Killy- telecommunications area, and any time that they begs Fishermen’s Organisation has grave con- have asked for additional powers they have been cerns about the baselines submitted by France granted. When ComReg implements the policy and Britain in particular. In the cases of the west direction I have given it in this area, I expect and south-west, France and Spain submitted there will be a significant level of competition and baseline efforts which our fishing organisations I hope it will lead to new operators entering the view as being much higher than what was taken mobile sector because that is what we need. in the period in the question. France will get an extra 10 million kW days in respect of whitefish Fishing Industry Development. and Spain an extra 4 million kW days, which 2. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for seems unjustified. I accept that the Department Communications, Marine and Natural Resources has made an achievement in respect of the sensi- if he will report to Da´il E´ ireann on the recent tive areas off the south coast. However, does the European Union agreement on the revised Irish Minister agree that our fishing organisations are Box and the concerns of fishing industry organis- strongly of the view that the problem with the ations regarding the baseline figures for fishing new Irish Box is the baseline efforts we gave efforts by Spain, France and Britain in large areas France, Britain and Spain over the 1998 to 2002 of the former, much larger Irish Box; and if he period, which form their baseline efforts into the will make a statement on the matter. [19329/04] future, and which are a severe threat to our industry? Mr. D. Ahern: The agreement reached at last The Minister made some interesting points at week’s Fisheries Council sets fishing effort limits a fisheries conference some months ago and last on the fleets of the relevant member states in var- week about financial incentives for environmen- ious areas in western waters. These limits were set on the basis of actual fishing activity by those tally friendly fishing and smarter fishing. There fleets over the period 1998 to 2002. The frame- has been a great deal of discussion about that, work for establishing these effort limits was especially in regard to the east and south coasts. agreed by fisheries Ministers last October and the Our east coast fishermen no longer have the pro- finalisation of the effort ceilings last week was in tection afforded by the old Irish Box. What incen- accordance with this agreed framework. tives is the Minister thinking of putting in place A detailed analytical exercise underpins the over the coming years for fishermen who are pre- effort calculations. Each member state was pared to fish in a more environmentally friendly required to assess the levels of fishing effort way? exerted by relevant vessel classes and then to sub- mit that data to the European Commission. The Mr. D. Ahern: I kept the industry fully Commission has analysed this data and, at last informed both last week and during the previous week’s Council, made a clear statement con- months regarding the discussions between the firming that the fishing effort allocations rep- Department and the European Commission. The resented the average fishing effort levels baseline figures, to which the Deputy referred, deployed in the relevant area by the respective are set for the period 1998 to 2002. At the insist- fleets over the reference period 1998 to 2002. This ence of Ireland, the Commission issued a state- is in full accordance with last October’s ment as part of the overall deal. The overall deal agreement. was recognised publicly by the fishermen as a I am aware of concerns expressed by some Irish good deal for fishermen in this country. However, industry representatives and I have kept them the Commission, at our request, issued a state- fully informed of the data verification that has ment, which is part of the deal ultimately agreed been carried by the Commission. The Irish indus- in Luxembourg last week. It states that the Com- try has broadly welcomed the deal, especially for mission confirms that the fishing effort allo- the new Irish Box area to the west and south of cations by member states, as set out in Annexes Ireland where most — about two thirds — of the 1 and 2, represent the average fishing effort levels Irish whitefish catch is taken. The protection of deployed in those areas, as reported by member fish stocks in this most sensitive and vulnerable states over the period of reference 1998 to 2002, area was therefore Ireland’s main priority and I and that these data were assessed by the Com- welcome and appreciate the industry’s strong mission in close co-operation with member states. 257 Priority 29 June 2004. Questions 258

One is comparing apples with oranges, in State to send a copy to me. Will he also send me effect, when one is comparing the circumstances details on Mr. Johnston, who carried out the inde- that obtained previously with those of the period pendent pipeline report? I have been unable to 1998 to 2002. There have been many changes in find contact details in any of the reports that are the types of vessels and the effort deployed in available. the areas in question. All the data submitted by Is the Minister concerned that neither Mr. countries were examined resolutely by my Johnston’s report nor the initial design report Department officials and by the European Com- took into account the possibility of bog-slide or mission, which is standing over those figures. bog disturbance, as occurred in the same area last summer and which could have an effect on the Natural Gas Grid. pipeline? Is he concerned that when the local authority asked the company about this in refer- 3. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for ence to the recent planning application, the only Communications, Marine and Natural Resources evidence provided in its reply was the same letter if he has satisfied himself with the manner in from the Minister, dated 15 April, which states which consent has been given for an onshore nothing about possible risks from bog import pipeline from the Corrib gas field to the movement? proposed Bellanboy gas refinery; the procedures and analysis which were adopted in the pro- More importantly, considering the conditions cessing of this application; and the way in which set out in the qualified risk assessment report on his Department assessed the structural stability of the pipeline design near the road, its ability to such onshore pipelines constructed in deep peat survive leakage or the water corrosion that might soil. [19552/04] occur in it, have the Minister of State and his Department received any of those reports and Minister of State at the Department of why did the Department not require confirmation Communications, Marine and Natural Resources of those reports before it provided consent? What (Mr. Browne): In April 2002, as part of my was the hurry in issuing consent to this report approval of the plan for the development of the only two or three months after the first designs Corrib gas field, I gave consent to the developers were presented, only two weeks after the Mini- to lay an onshore and offshore pipeline to which ster’s assessment report came in and only days I attached a number of conditions, both technical before the Minister left office due to the election? and environmental. The developers, in carrying What was the hurry in issuing this consent and out this work, must comply with all these why did his Department not look for the reassur- conditions. ances required by the independent analyst before In my consideration and appraisal of the pipe- it gave consent? line proposal I commissioned an independent technical evaluation of the onshore pipeline. The Mr. Browne: There was no hurrying on the evaluation was carried out by a pipeline technical issue of consent. We commissioned an indepen- expert, Mr. Andrew Johnston, and is entitled dent technical evaluation of the onshore pipeline Corrib Gas Pipeline Project, Report on Eval- and this was carried out by Mr. Andrew Johnston. uation of the Onshore Pipeline, Design Code. We will make his report available to Deputy This study addressed design, methodology, Ryan this evening or tomorrow. operating conditions, pipeline corrosion, public safety, welding and testing, pipeline material Mr. Eamon Ryan: I have the report. I wish to quality and protection from interference. Mr. have the contact details. Johnston’s report states that the onshore pipeline design code has been selected in accordance with Mr. Browne: The criteria used to identify and best public safety considerations and is appropri- select the route between the landfill site and the ate for the pipeline operating conditions. terminal were the avoidance, as far as possible, of Subject to the developers’ undertaking to com- significant ecological, archaeological and engin- ply with a number of conditions laid down in eering features; location of special areas of con- approval or consents granted by me, the design servation and special protection areas; the avoid- is generally in accordance with best national and ance, where possible, of potentially difficult international industry practice and the pipeline is construction areas such as side slopes, solid rock considered to meet public safety requirements. strata, peat complexes and river crossings; and Copies of Mr. Johnston’s report have been issued the shortest distance, bearing in mind the other on request. criteria. While consent was issued in April 2002, the Mr. Eamon Ryan: May I receive from the consent to construct a pipeline is, essentially, per- Department a copy of the consent letter from the mission in principle to proceed with the design. then Minister, Deputy Fahey? Is the letter, which This is followed at the installation stage by the was presented in the recent additional infor- issue by the petroleum affairs division, PAD, of mation request pertaining to the recent planning the consent to install for the various phases of application of 15 April, of which I have a copy, pipe laying. The Deputy raised the issue of peat. the only consent letter? If there is a separate one, While the PAD is not aware that the construction I would like a commitment from the Minister of of a pipeline in deep peat soil is problematic, it 259 Priority 29 June 2004. Questions 260

[Mr. Browne.] involved in water based activities to promote the intends to have the peat issue addressed by the wearing of lifejackets in accordance with the developers as part of the consent to install pro- new regulations. cess. The issue raised by the Deputy will be dealt The new regulations have been widely wel- with by the PAD. comed and monitoring to date has shown a high level of compliance. However, I will look to Mr. Eamon Ryan: Is this the only consent letter expanding the policing capacity on water if there or is there a separate consent letter which the are significant levels of non-compliance. The pub- Minister of State can provide for me? Does the lic too have a key role to play by taking personal Minister of State agree that the inspector’s report responsibility for their own safety through wear- states that this is a highly unusual pipeline, that ing lifejackets and taking other sensible safety there are very few international standards for an precautions when undertaking water based leis- onshore pipeline which takes 330 bar pressure ure activities. As it is compulsory for all children because most pipelines take approximately 100 up to the age of 16 years to wear a lifejacket while bar, that the real risk here arises because the on board a pleasure craft, parents too have a piv- pipeline will carry gas, liquid and other impurities otal role to play in ensuring that children wear straight from the well which could be very corros- lifejackets at all times. ive and that the situation will be volatile and dangerous for local people, not just for the Additional information not given on the floor of ecology? the House. As part of its ongoing programme of enforce- Mr. Browne: Mr. Johnston is the expert in his ment of safety rules and vessel licensing con- field and the expertise in my Department con- ditions, the maritime safety directorate will con- firms that the pipeline more than meets the stan- tinue to carry out a campaign of operational dards laid down. safety inspections on passenger ships and boats this summer. These inspections, including unan- Marine Safety. nounced checks, will be undertaken around the country in relation to vessels at sea and on inland 4. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Communi- waters to determine compliance with licensing cations, Marine and Natural Resources the new requirements. Licence conditions relating to man- water safety measures that will be in place in the ning levels, the maximum passenger numbers summer of 2004; and if he has satisfied himself allowed and the continued availability of safety that patrolling of water regulations is equipment are among the issues on which the adequate. [19618/04] inspectors will focus. Mr. D. Ahern: I recently signed into law new In addition, my Department, as part of its water safety regulations aimed at Ireland’s grow- safety awareness programme, will undertake an ing marine leisure sector as part of my campaign intensive public safety awareness campaign across continuously to improve safety on water this the summer months on the radio and through summer. other media, focusing on the wearing of lifejack- I consider the wearing of lifejackets by every- ets for all water based activities. body on board small pleasure craft is now an essential element in staying safe on the water. It Mr. Kehoe: I wish to pass on my sympathies to is now compulsory for everyone on board a the families of the two men who were drowned pleasure craft of less than seven metres, 23 feet, off the coast of Waterford at the weekend. in length to wear a lifejacket-personal floatation I recognise the work the Minister has done in device. this area since his appointment and I am glad he The new regulations, which are titled the Mer- recognises that the wearing of lifejackets is of chant Shipping (Pleasure Craft) (Lifejackets and prime importance. The Minister, Deputy Browne, Operation) (Safety) Regulations 2004, have and I remember the tragedy that occurred off the immediate effect. They encompass all types of coast of Fethard two years ago. pleasure craft regardless of the means of propul- Is the Coastguard responsible for ensuring that sion, and for the first time ever it is also compul- people wear lifejackets or do the gardaı´ have a sory for all children up to the age of 16 years to role? It is difficult for the Coastguard to police wear a lifejacket while on board a pleasure craft. this so responsibility for it should be extended. On the enforcement of the new regulation, the There are harbours and inland waterways all over Coastguard, officers of the maritime safety direc- the country where activity takes place. If we do torate of my Department and the Garda have a not police this properly, the legislation will go by major role to play. To assist in this process, over the wayside. What Department is responsible for recent weeks two Coastguard vessels were policing this, the Department of Justice, Equality deployed at Howth and Crosshaven as major and Law Reform or the Department of Defence? boating activity areas in the country. Other ves- I do not want to see water sports abolished sels will be deployed on a random basis around because they bring in large numbers of tourists, the coastline during the coming months to pro- but they must be properly policed. The require- mote safety awareness, including the wearing of ment to wear lifejackets, particularly for the lifejackets. I have also called on all organisations young, is welcome. Has the Minister plans for 261 Priority 29 June 2004. Questions 262 programmes in schools to highlight safety in action plan. In addition to this initiative, the water sports? If we want to educate young people group broadband scheme which I launched last we must do it through the school system because March will allow smaller communities to pool they will be involved in water based activities in their requirements and obtain broadband con- the future. nectivity from a range of service providers with \25 million in funding assistance from Mr. D. Ahern: Ongoing education and inspec- Government. tion campaigns are part of the remit of the mari- The regional connectivity agreements that my time safety directorate in my Department. The Department negotiated with Esat BT and the Garda Sı´ocha´na and the maritime ESB at prices as low as one eighth of what they 3 o’clock safety directorate surveyors are the had been mean that all areas of the country can authorised enforcement officers benefit from low-cost backhaul. These prices are under the Merchant Shipping Act 1992 but the on a par with the best available on the inter- Coastguard also has a major role to play and has national market. been proactive in this area. It has been more than The broadband for schools programme will willing to take responsibility for enforcement and bring high-speed connectivity to all 4,100 pri- since we introduced the new regulations there has mary, second level and special needs schools in been a high level of compliance. the country by the start of the 2005 school year. Furthermore, people are aware of these regu- My Department is working closely with the lations and take their personal responsibilities Department of Education and Science and the seriously. Unannounced inspections will continue industry to deliver this \18 million programme during the summer in coastal areas and on inland which is being 80% funded by the industry. I am waters to determine compliance with the require- aware of the recent initiatives to provide laptop ments. It is not only a matter of enforcement, computers to high school students in the state of however, it is a matter of education. Over the two Maine and will follow developments with interest. bank holiday weekends so far this summer there As a result of the £77 million investment by the have been 630 announcements on national and Government in 1999 with Global Crossing, local radio about safety at sea. This programme Ireland now heads the OECD league in inter- will continue for the August bank holiday national connectivity to more than 50 cities in weekend. Europe, America and the Far East. The signifi- cant reduction in voice and data communications Telecommunications Services. costs to and from Ireland and the allied construc- 5. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for tion of world-class data centres, has been instru- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources mental in attracting a number of major compan- the position with regard to the roll-out of broad- ies such as Google and eBay in the information band nationally, with specific regard to his and communications technology sector to locate their European operations in Ireland. Department’s schools broadband action plan and the plan to deliver broadband to homes here; if he has given consideration to the broadband Mr. Broughan: I know the Minister is not easily initiative by the department of education in embarrassed. Anyone who throws his hat in the Maine, USA; if he will back up his claims that ring for the leadership of Fianna Fa´il, given the Ireland can be at the top of the OECD table for groaning reaction of Fianna Fa´il backbenchers to broadband connectivity by 2005; and if he will his candidature, is certainly not easily embar- make a statement on the matter. [19330/04] rassed. Was the Minister not embarrassed when he represented us in the Dundalk Institute of Mr. D. Ahern: The provision of telecom- Technology a few months ago and the figures for munications services, including broadband, is a broadband connectivity throughout Europe were matter in the first instance for the private sector flashed up on the screen? Denmark is top of the companies operating in a fully liberalised market list, closely followed by Belgium. It showed per- under the regulation of ComReg the Commission centages in double figures of houses linked to for Communications Regulation. In its report on broadband. Ireland traipsed along with Greece at Ireland’s broadband future, published in the very bottom of the list with 0.2% or 0.3% of December 2003, the Information Society Com- connected households. Is it to be the legacy of the mission concluded that the market has failed to Minister’s two and a half years in this Depart- respond to the demand for broadband connectiv- ment that he has not adopted a more vigorous ity and there is a proven need for Government attitude to remedy the market failure that still intervention to accelerate the provision of infra- exists in this area? I welcome the recent structure and the driving of demand. announcements by Esat, Eircom and NTL Last December I announced my Department’s regarding free broadband trials. broadband action plan which will see broadband The Minister referred in his reply to the exper- connectivity rolled out to more than 90 towns iment in Maine, USA, which was reported in The with a population of 1,500 or more, using com- Irish Times by Karlin Lillington, the technology munity broadband exchanges and strategic fibre. journalist. Every seventh grader, in our terms Expenditure of \35 million each year from now every child in first year at second level, has until 2007 has been committed to the broadband received a laptop computer from the State. As a 263 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 264

[Mr. Broughan.] Mr. Broughan: It is a small country. former teacher I am aware that computers will have a revolutionary impact on education. The Mr. D. Ahern: The Deputy reads The Irish changing nature of education calls for care in this Times, which is the paper of record. My infor- area. The Minister should now put forward some mation with regard to the proposal in Maine is major initiative to highlight the developments in that the commitments made in this respect will this field. result in only 8,400 students receiving computers, The Minister stated at the Dundalk conference which is a very small step. I would prefer to work that broadband is not the future but the present. in conjunction with the industry to provide broad- Unfortunately, it is the future under the current band, software and hardware to schools which Administration. Will he consider giving every will be part of the agreement. first year or junior cycle child in second level schools a laptop either this September or next as part of an organised, new system of education at Other Questions. second level? ———— Mr. D. Ahern: Any independent observer would agree there has been a dramatic change in Telecommunications Services. the broadband area, mainly driven by this Mini- 6. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for ster. As the Deputy acknowledged, it is already Communications, Marine and Natural Resources accepted that we are now the only country in if he has satisfied himself with the level of uptake Europe in which broadband is being offered for of DSL broadband connections in the past six free for an extended period. This did not happen months; and if he will make a statement on the by chance but as a result of the proactive policies matter. [19303/04] of the Government. 72. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Mr. Broughan: It took a long time. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources his plans to introduce broadband into all schools; Mr. D. Ahern: I have just returned from the and if he will make a statement on the matter. signing of the contract for the management ser- [19287/04] vices entity, which will drive the promotion of the 259. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for metropolitan area networks established by this Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Government and promote future broadband the full extent of requirements in respect of infra- rings. I announced today a further 41 areas which structural investment in telecommunications; the will benefit, again provided for by the extent to which this requirement is being met at Government. present or is planned; and if he will make a state- The price of broadband has dramatically fallen ment on the matter. [19569/04] in the past year. While it is true we started slowly, before the previous election the Labour Party did Mr. D. Ahern: I propose to take Questions not even know what broadband was as it did not Nos. 6, 72 and 259 together. refer to it in any of its election manifestos. The provision of telecommunications services, including broadband, is a matter in the first Mr. Broughan: Will the Minister yield? instance for the private sector companies operating in a fully liberalised market under the An Ceann Comhairle: The time for this ques- regulation of ComReg. In its report, Ireland’s tion has expired. Broadband Future, published in December 2003, the Information Society Commission concluded Mr. Broughan: I have listened to the Minister that the market has failed to respond to the for two and a half years. This drivel is the reason demand for broadband connectivity and that he will never be leader of the Fianna Fa´il Party. there is a proven need for Government inter- vention to accelerate the provision of infrastruc- Mr. D. Ahern: The Deputy does not like to ture and the driving of demand. hear the truth that the Labour Party’s record on In December last I announced my Depart- this issue is abysmal. The European Commission ment’s broadband action plan, to which I referred produced figures to show that this country has earlier. It will result in broadband connectivity had the most dramatic percentage increase in the being rolled out to 90 towns with a population take-up of broadband due to the stewardship of of 1,500 and over, using community broadband this Minister. exchanges and strategic fibre. A spend of \35 million each year from now until 2007 has been Mr. Broughan: The starting point was zero. committed to the broadband action plan. I also referred to the group broadband scheme Mr. D. Ahern: With regard to laptops for which I launched last March and which will allow students, we were the first nation in Europe to smaller communities to pool their requirements have computers in every school, again due to a and obtain broadband connectivity from a range Fianna Fa´il Government. of service providers. 265 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 266

The regional connectivity agreements my broadband penetration into areas that could not Department negotiated with Esat BT and the be accessed previously. ESB at prices as low as one eighth of what they In addition, the Government reached agree- had been, mean all areas of the country will bene- ment with the ESB to spend \60 million on back- fit from a low-cost backhaul. haul. The ESB wrapped fibre around high tension The broadband for schools programme will electricity cables, which has allowed independent bring connectivity to all 4,100 primary, second operators to piggyback the infrastructure at keen level and special needs schools. I am also aware prices — one eighth of what they had been — as of recent initiatives in the private sector in this a result of an agreement between the Depart- respect. As a result of the £77 million investment ment, the ESB and Esat BT. There was a prob- by the Government in 1999 with Global Crossing, lem within Ireland, which was not related to con- Ireland now heads the OECD league in inter- nectivity from the island to other countries, as a national connectivity to more than 50 cities in result of the Global Crossing investment. Earlier Europe, America and the Far East. The signifi- I signed a formal contract with E-Net, which will cant reduction in voice and data communications manage all the metropolitan networks. I assure costs to and from Ireland and the allied construc- the Deputy that this will ensure Ireland will be at tion of world class data centres have been instru- the leading edge of broadband technology. mental in attracting a number of major compan- ies in the information and communications An Ceann Comhairle: With regard to sup- technology sector to locate their European oper- plementary questions, the questioner has one ations in Ireland. minute and the Minister has one minute to reply. Internet penetration rates in Ireland are increasing more quickly than in any other Euro- Mr. Broughan: Will the Minister expand on his pean country. In the past 12 months the number interesting announcement regarding the E-Net of DSL customers has risen from 1,000 to 45,000, contract? What are its terms and conditions? with a further 60,000 customers using flat rate How will it operate in the coming years? Internet access and more than 1,000 using high The Minister stated a number of months ago speed corporate lines. These figures continue to that the aim was that broadband connectivity increase dramatically, with upwards of 1,000 new would meet the average EU standard by mid- customers being added each week, particularly as 2005. How many homes and businesses will be a result of the free offers for the summer period connected by then? What is his target for mid- by the main service providers. The recent free 2005? trial introductory offers announced by Eircom and Esat BT and the entry of NTL into the Mr. D. Ahern: We want to be in the top ten broadband market are a welcome indication of per sent of OECD countries within three years. the increasing interest in broadband as a result of As for the announcement today, the management lower prices and greater consumer choice. services entity will manage and operate the com- Full details of my Department’s broadband pleted MANs — the existing MANs — and any programmes can be found on the websites, new MANs that will be added on. It is basically www.dcmnr.gov.ie and www.gbs.ie. My Depart- a services concession contract where the ment will continue to promote the broadband appointee will be expected to offer a service con- agenda with the aim of providing world class cession fee to the State in the form of a fixed payment and revenue sharing arrangements. It broadband infrastructure in all areas of the coun- will, in effect, offer very keen rates, dark fibre try. The continuing aim of the Government is to which will give us the highest of high speeds. place Ireland in the top 10% of OECD countries Many of the definitions of broadband one sees in for broadband connectivity within three years. documents from the OECD and the EU Com- mission are not broadband at all but are DSL, Mr. Durkan: Is the Minister concerned that which is an introductory broadband facility. What Ireland is losing its position at the leading edge we are putting into the ground in most areas is of information communication technologies com- dark fibre, which will give these areas incredible pared with ten or 12 years ago? Will the invest- Internet speed. ment proposed by the Minister return Ireland to the leading edge? Mr. Broughan: Who are eNET?

Mr. D. Ahern: Other European countries have Mr. D. Ahern: If the Deputy has other queries experienced a dramatic uptake in broadband over he should put down a separate question and I can a relatively short period of two to three years, give him the information. and that is also being experienced in Ireland. I am convinced that, as a result of the Government’s Mr. Kehoe: The Minister mentioned group investment in strategic initiatives aimed at introd- broadband schemes. Will those be like the group ucing broadband in schools, major towns and vil- water schemes? Will we be back here in years to lages and peripheral areas through the group come talking about the group broadband schemes broadband scheme, Ireland will have a complete, that are to go across the country? open access, technology neutral infrastructure Question No. 259 refers to the availability of which will avail of various technologies to ensure broadband in schools across the country. I asked 267 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 268

[Mr. Kehoe.] computers and the Internet while the figure is 9% the Minister a similar question a year ago and he among labourers. This gap is costing people not was unable to answer. What percentage of only jobs—— schools have broadband, either through the Department of Communications, Marine and An Ceann Comhairle: A brief question please. Natural Resources or the Department of Edu- cation and Science? Mr. Crowe: How many applications for funding On DSL broadband, when one is switching has the Department received from small com- over from analog to DSL, the waiting time is up munities for self-enabling development of broad- to three months in certain areas. I have a friend band projects where commercial providers are in Monkstown and DSL broadband is not avail- not available? able in that area. Mr. D. Ahern: I do not have the figures on that Mr. D. Ahern: I doubt that very much. If they but the Deputy can log on to my Department’s are not able to get it through the wires in the website or to the link for the group broadband ground they could get it through satellite or wire- scheme which will show what is available. I less, which is as keenly priced as the fixed wire launched this scheme quite recently and there has system. ComReg has issued a substantial number been significant interest but I suggest to Deputies of wireless licences which cover the entire coun- here and elsewhere that they should encourage try and I do not doubt that a place like Monks- their constituents to use this scheme because town is facilitated. I invite the Deputy to look up grants of up to 55% are available in the Border, our “vote for broadband” website, which I midland and west region and a lower figure in referred to earlier. People can log on and say they the south and east to provide broadband in the want broadband in their area and we then pro- peripheral regions. vide the service providers, who have licences or Will Deputy Eamon Ryan remind me of the infrastructure in those areas, with a list of those point he made? people. It is a trigger mechanism which has worked very successfully abroad. Mr. Eamon Ryan: The Minister is not following The Deputy’s other question related to schools. the recommendation of the Oireachtas I do not know the proportion but broadband is committee—— available to many schools if they require it and many schools in urban areas are DSL-enabled if Mr. D. Ahern: It is possible for all the compan- required. What we are doing with broadband for ies on a completely open access basis to get into schools is providing a high-speed broadband the fibre the State is putting in the ground. No Internet access in all schools through a number of technologies at no cost. This is due to the deal one is excluded from it. we arranged with the industry, where it pays 80% of the cost. Mr. Eamon Ryan: Why are we duplicating?

Mr. Eamon Ryan: Why has the Minister An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should ignored the recommendations of the Oireachtas allow the Minister to speak. Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources investigation into broad- Mr. D. Ahern: We are not duplicating. That is band — that we should have a co-operative the song of the private operators which did not approach, where the MANs are built using a com- want the State providing high speed broadband bination of existing fibre from telcos and also, to the regions—— possibly, fibre provided by the Department? In such circumstances, is the Minister worried that Mr. Eamon Ryan: Can the Minister tell me without that co-operative approach there may be there is no duplication? a falling back from investment by the private telco operators, given the extensive development An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputy Eamon of MANs which is not using their existing fibre? Ryan to allow the Minister to speak without Given 45,000 DSL broadband connections interruption. have been made so far and 1,000 more are being made per week, that means approximately 70,000 Mr. D. Ahern: Deputy Eamon Ryan is only connections by the end of the year whereas the parroting what they are saying. It was only after projection from the companies at the start of this the State put fibre, which is far faster than the year was a target of 100,000 by the end of the existing network, into the 19 towns that the year. Is that not a failure in terms of what we private companies followed providing DSL. They were looking for? went into 17 of the areas we chose. The only two areas they did not choose were Manorhamilton Mr. Crowe: I refer to gaps in digital literacy in and Gweedore. I rest my case. the State and the effect it can have. If one looks at the figures, one will see that 51% of people Mr. Eamon Ryan: They also had fibre in the from a professional background have access to ground. 269 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 270

Water Safety. would have been good to have had it on the Stat- ute Book for the summer season. In regard to the 7. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for passage of by-laws, I believe the previous legis- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources lation referred to had some strong points but when he intends to introduce measures to provide varying attitudes were taken by local authorities. for the more effective control of jet skis in view Does the legislation mean there will be a uniform of the clear danger these can pose to other water approach to the use of jet skis and other such users; and if he will make a statement on the mat- vehicles which will be strictly implemented by the ter. [19219/04] Minister’s Department? Mr. D. Ahern: As Deputies are aware, my Department has an ongoing safety programme Mr. D. Ahern: I thank the Deputy for his involving a combination of statutory regulation, remarks. Up to now, nine local authorities and enforcement and safety awareness promotion three port companies have brought in by-laws with the aim of achieving the highest level of and regulations for the use of jet skis. I would safety at sea and on inland waters. have liked it to have been more by now. That is Two sets of regulations which contain national one of the reasons we are bringing forward the provisions governing the safe use of jet skis and legislation, namely, to have a uniform approach similar craft are already in force. The Merchant throughout the country. When we examined the Shipping (Pleasure Craft) (Lifejackets and different types of regulations brought in, we saw Operation) (Safety) Regulations 2004 contain there were inconsistencies and different treat- provisions relating to age restrictions, the carry- ment between local authorities. I regret that we ing, wearing and use of lifejackets and restrictions cannot get the legislation passed sooner as it on the use of alcohol and drugs. These provisions would increase the fines and strengthen the exist- also apply to ski boarding, water skiing, paraglid- ing regime. However, I would not like it thought ing and other towed rides. that we do not have a legislative regime in this The second set of regulations, the Merchant respect because we do. There is a responsibility Shipping (Investigation of Marine Casualties) Act on local authorities to bring forward these regu- 2000 (Prescribed Classes of Vessels) Regulations lations as soon as possible. 2001 (S.I. No. 285 of 2001) prescribe personal watercraft — — jet skis — and fast power craft Mr. Kehoe: In my county of Wexford there is for the purposes of careless and dangerous navi- a major problem with the use of jet skis in Cour- gation or operation provisions in the Merchant town where the beach is very populated during Shipping (Investigation of Marine Casualties) the summer. Parents and users of the beach are Act 2000. concerned about the use of jet skis at sea which In addition, I am delighted to announce that could be the cause of accidents. The use of jet on 22 June 2004, the Government approved the skis on rivers is also a problem in the county, of publication of the Maritime Safety Bill 2004, the which the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, will purpose of which is to strengthen the law further be aware. against the improper use of certain fast powered Fishermen are complaining about jet skis being craft such as jet skis. That Bill will be taken in the used on the River Slaney where there is fishing Seanad tomorrow. My objective is to have this activity and where nets have been laid down. Will legislation enacted as soon as possible. the Minister introduce legislation or otherwise so The Bill will provide powers for local auth- that jet skis can only be used on certain parts of orities to regulate and control the use and oper- the river? Is it up to the local authorities to pol- ation of jet skis and other mechanically propelled ice this? sport and leisure craft in their areas. It also pro- vides for increases in penalties, including a pro- Mr. D. Ahern: The legislation will take care of vision for on-the-spot fines and for the seizure the type of situations to which the Deputy and detention of craft suspected to be involved in referred. I have come across gardaı´ who have serious offences. This further strengthening of the intervened where jet skis have been used danger- law against the improper operation of fast pow- ously in my area. I compliment the Garda Sı´och- ered watercraft will significantly enhance public a´na on intervening in this regard. As the Deputy safety and amenity and protect natural and other said, some people are concerned about the use of heritage areas. jet skis. I exhort anyone who has a jet ski to use it in such a way that it does not put themselves Mr. Broughan: I join my colleague in Fine Gael or others in danger. in commending the Minister on bringing forward the legislation at long last. As a water sports Mobile Telephony. enthusiast, he has brought forward some other 8. Ms McManus asked the Minister for important measures to deal with water safety. On Communications, Marine and Natural Resources behalf of the Labour Party, I sympathise with the the steps being taken to protect consumers, families of the two young men who drowned on particularly children, being targeted by pornogra- Sunday. phers when third generation mobile phones come It will not be possible to get this legislation on stream; and if he will make a statement on the through the Oireachtas in the next two weeks. It matter. [19206/04] 271 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 272

Mr. D. Ahern: I understand the Deputy’s con- ster has had discussions with the Irish Cellular cern in regard to this matter. However, legislation Industry Association and has launched an indus- already exists to tackle this problem and will try code of practice but is he saying definitively apply to 3G services. It is an offence under the that we will have registration? Such registration section 13 of the Post Office (Amendment) Act is critically necessary, given the view expressed 1951 as amended by the Postal and Telecom- by the Minister some months ago concerning the munications Services Act 1983 to send by phone general situation with mobile telephones. any message or other matter which is grossly What action does the Minister intend to take offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing about video pornography or graphic spamming character. It is also an offence under section 10 on mobile telephones? I understand that in other of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person countries where 3G systems have begun, such Act 1997 to harass a person by use of a telephone. material has been used intensively as a marketing Anyone who has information regarding these tool. Given recent international meetings matters should bring it immediately to the atten- between apparently respectable mobile telephone tion of the Garda Sı´ocha´na for criminal investi- companies and elements of the pornography gation. Such offences are not the responsibility of industry, will the Minister act decisively in this ComReg. My colleague, the Minister for Justice, area? Equality and Law Reform, is responsible for pol- icy on the protection of children from the trans- Mr. D. Ahern: None of the mobile operators in mission of pornographic images by telephones Ireland offers adult content services and they and other media. have already stated clearly that it is not their I recently launched an industry code of practice intention to ever target particularly vulnerable and a parental guide developed by the Irish people in this respect. The advent of 3G tele- Cellular Industry Association. The code of prac- phones which will come on the market towards tice establishes the standards that mobile oper- the end of this year or more likely in the new ators will adhere to on the issues of parental con- year, will lead to much greater possibilities for the trols for minors’ access to mobile services; transmission of unwanted material across tele- malicious or offensive person-to-person communications technology. As we have seen communications; unsolicited commercial with the Internet, it is an extremely difficult mat- communications, such as spam; Internet access; ter to police. We have been having discussions and premium-rate services. with all the various players about the issue of The parental guide advises parents on gaining registration of 3G telephones and those dis- dual control of their child’s mobile, recommends cussions are ongoing. It is my preference, and my action that may be taken to prevent or best pro- Department is of the view also, that there should tect their child from abuse of available services, be a registration system but I am open to other and details existing legislative protection. suggestions as to what can be done in this respect. I fully support any such voluntary measures by As I have already stated, if any further legis- the industry that seek to protect consumers, lation is required I will bring it forward. All of particularly the young and vulnerable. I have this has yet to be finally decided upon but we are offered the co-operation of my staff in the holding discussions about it with the Irish Cellu- development of further safeguards. The industry lar Industry Association, the licence operators has assured me that the protection of young and and ComReg. vulnerable users is a mutual priority. Officials in my Department have already held Electricity Generation. discussions with the Irish Cellular Industry 9. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Association, licensed operators and ComReg, on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the feasibility of introducing a registration system his views on the implications for energy policy of for pre-paid 3G mobile services. The principal the recent suggestion from the chairman of the aim of any such approach would be to enhance ESB that the company would require a double- the traceability of origin of inappropriate content digit increase in electricity prices in 2005; the transmitted to vulnerable users. Consideration of amount of the dividend to be paid by the ESB to the legal and technical issues surrounding this the Government in 2004; if the Government has proposal will continue in consultation with all considered forfeiting any of this dividend in order interested parties, including the Department of to reduce the financial pressure on the company Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Data and avert the need for an increase; and if he will Protection Commissioner. make a statement on the matter. [19193/04] Mr. Broughan: The Minister made a number of Mr. D. Ahern: I am aware that the chairman recent statements about concerns that have been of the ESB, when recently announcing the 2003 raised in this House and in the media concerning financial results of the company, intimated that the transmission of pornography on 3G tele- higher electricity prices could be a possibility in phones, particularly to children. Is the Minister the short term given the increase in oil, gas and now saying definitively that there will be a full coal prices over the past six years. However, I registration system for all 3G handsets as the net- do not have a function concerning the pricing of work gets under way later in the year? The Mini- electricity. The Commission for Energy Regu- 273 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 274 lation was given responsibility for regulating ESB more price increases to come, particularly con- tariffs to its franchise customers under the Euro- cerning the Kyoto accords. pean Communities (Internal Market in Last weekend was a bad time to be the Mini- Electricity) Regulations 2000. Previously, the ster for Communications, Marine and Natural ESB would, by custom and practice, have sought Resources, given the bad news about the inter- Government approval before increasing its connector to the UK. The Commission for tariffs. Energy Regulation has asked the Minister to The CER set about a process of rebalancing scrap one of the two interconnectors. In the near tariffs ahead of full market opening in 2005, future we could be threatened not just with which is required to ensure that all tariffs fully amber alerts but also with blackouts because the reflect the cost of supplying different categories workforce might withdraw its labour due to major of customers and to prevent the under-recovery industrial relations concerns. The crux of these of generation costs. I am advised that the CER concerns is the fact that workers, business, indus- has commenced its review of the tariffs to apply try and consumers do not know what the Minister from 1 January 2005 and it intends to announce intends to do about the electricity market because the outcome of this review in September next. he will not tell us. The operations of State companies such as the ESB are increasingly taking place in the context An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy is of liberalised competitive markets and they are widening the scope of his question. also increasingly engaged in activities outside their core business. In these circumstances, it is Mr. Broughan: The likelihood is that when next appropriate that they pay dividends to their we meet we will have another Minister for shareholders out of their profits. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. The Electricity (Supply) (Amendment) Act 2001, while providing for the establishment of an An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy has employee share ownership plan, ESOP, also exceeded the one-minute limit allowed for his repealed the company’s break-even mandate supplementary question. which had existed since 1927. This, in essence, means that the ESB may declare and pay divid- Mr. Broughan: We will never know what ends in a manner akin to a commercial public lim- Deputy Dermot Ahern felt about the most ited company. important part of his portfolio. An agreement was reached between the ESB, the Department of Finance and my own Depart- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy has ment on the question of ESB dividends. The taken nearly two minutes. agreement provided for a payment of 25% of pro- fits for 2002, growing to 33% by 2005. It should, however, be pointed out that decisions on annual Mr. D. Ahern: As usual, the Deputy is talking dividend payments to shareholders are ultimately through his hat. The fact is that the taxpayer owns a matter for the board of the ESB. 95% of the ESB. Is the Deputy saying that the As regards the 2003 results, the board declared taxpayer should forgo a dividend in circum- a total dividend of \67.1 million for the year. stances where that dividend can be used in gen- Some 95% of that amount, \63.7 million, is eral taxation to fund schools, roads and hospitals? appropriate to the Exchequer and the remaining This company is making a reasonable profit and \3.4 million, representing 5%, is appropriate to we should be encouraging companies to do so. the ESB ESOP. It is a pity more semi-State companies are not The CER allows reasonable returns in the performing as well as this one. regulated segment of the ESB’s business. There is no direct link between the CER’s decision on Mr. Broughan: Others are too. prices and the ability of the company to pay divi- dends. In the circumstances, the question of for- Mr. D. Ahern: The Labour Party appears to feiture by the State of its portion of the 2003 divi- want it every way. The party should spell out how dend payment is not on the agenda. else we would get this money if not by means of the dividend. Mr. Broughan: Deputies were disappointed The interconnector project has not been aban- that the Minister was not present in the Chamber doned. That was a totally erroneous headline. I for the recent debate on Second Stage of the ESB made it clear at the outset that the CER should Bill. His presence would have given us an oppor- investigate the possibilities of a merchant or rev- tunity to discuss with him in detail the future enue generating operation. There has been huge shape of the electricity market. Is it not true that interest in the building of the interconnector or the \67 million dividend operates as another ste- interconnectors. Although some companies will alth tax on consumers? The Minister needs to state we should only proceed with one at this examine this in the context of future pricing, time, it is Government policy that we proceed given that during his time in office we have seen with two. a massive 29% increase in electricity prices, which amounts to a price explosion. There is a threat of Mr. Broughan: Will the Minister tell the CER? 275 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 276

Mr. D. Ahern: I will listen to the experts in biomass material to be included in the fuel mix regard to whether we should build one at this for the plant; and if so the type and amount of time, with a view to building a second. wood material that can be used. [19313/04]

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We must proceed Mr. D. Ahern: The matter of the type of fuel to the next question. that can be used in Moneypoint electricity gener- ating station is a technical matter for the ESB and Mr. D. Ahern: Nonetheless, this is a significant not one in which I have a function. However, it development and I would not wish it to go out is my understanding that the Moneypoint plant that the Government is not behind the building operates as a 915 MW coal-fired generating of an interconnector, because it is. station, with a capacity to switch to heavy fuel-oil in exceptional circumstances such as when coal An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We have supplies are not available. exceeded the time allotted for this question. The company formally submitted to my Department on Friday, 25 June 2004 its proposals Mr. Eamon Ryan: May I ask just one question? in regard to the future operation of the plant in light of obligations imposed under the EU large An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: A short question, combustion plant and the national emission ceil- very briefly. ing directives. The obligations under these direc- tives must be met by 2008 and 2010, respectively. Mr. Eamon Ryan: The information from the The company’s proposals entail the installation Department of Communications, Marine and of additional specialised equipment to reduce sig- Natural Resources is that gas prices will increase nificantly the existing levels of sulphur dioxide significantly in the short term no matter what and nitrous oxide emissions in line with the obli- happens on the world market because the long- gations under the directives already referred to. term contracts into which Ireland entered are The proposals also include an element of renewal unfortunately coming to an end. Given that fact, and upgrading of existing parts of the station to what will the energy companies do to keep prices ensure the plant’s continued operation for an down if we do not raise prices? The Minister extended period beyond its current projected life- stated that the ESB is engaged in outside core time until around the year 2020. business activities. Will he outline what those As far as I am aware, the proposed works to activities are? be carried out on Moneypoint will not change the plant from being a primarily coal-fired generating Mr. D. Ahern: if we could get the Corrib gas station, as is currently the case. The question of on stream it would help. whether the renovations will allow for the burn- ing of fuels or materials other than coal or heavy Mr. Eamon Ryan: Preferably safely. fuel-oil is a technical matter for the company and not one in which I have a function. Mr. D. Ahern: In that context, perhaps the Deputy will get some of his cohorts to withdraw Mr. Eamon Ryan: Given that the Minister has their unreasonable objections to it. a role in reducing our CO2 emissions and that the plant upgrade will not do so, since we will not Mr. Eamon Ryan: The objections are totally benefit from the 3.5 million tonne reduction in reasonable. CO2 predicted for Moneypoint in the national climate change strategy, will he not instruct the Mr. D. Ahern: In such circumstances, we might company to make it a condition of any future as a nation become self-sufficient in gas, which operation of the plant that it includes a percent- would reduce gas prices, particularly if we can age of wood material which is CO2 neutral? discover more and more indigenous gas. When will the Department take a technical view on this matter? Mr. Eamon Ryan: Will the Minister answer the question? Mr. D. Ahern: The ESB’s proposals came to the Department last Friday and are being exam- Mr. D. Ahern: The ESB is involved in wind ined. The proposals will be brought before the and other renewable energy projects and is Cabinet to make a decision in regard to approval. investing in generation in other countries, thereby It is not for the Government to decide what can increasing its portfolio. Thankfully, all the com- or cannot be used, it is a matter entirely for the pany’s decisions have been profitable for tax- ESB. payers and have lead to the company’s increased profits. Mr. Broughan: Is the Minister concerned about the pension deficit of \510 million published in Alternative Energy Projects. the ESB’s recent annual report which, according 10. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for to accountants, the FRS17 provision may increase Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to \900 million? Does he have concerns about if the proposed renovations to Moneypoint power this level of pension liability in a semi-State station will allow for any amount of wood company? 277 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 278

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: That is a separ- to broadcast services and that this access should ate question. be formally provided for by the broadcast regu- lator, the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland. Mr. Broughan: It is an additional question to I also welcome the commitment by RTE to the Minister. increase the subtitling of home-produced pro- gramming at peak time on RTE 1 and Network An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy will 2. As part of a four-year plan RTE has committed have to table a separate question on that subject. to continuing to increase the number of hours of home-produced programming with subtitling at Mr. Broughan: The Minister wants to answer it. peak time from 620 hours in 2002 to 1,116 by 2006. This represents an increase of 80% over Mr. D. Ahern: The Deputy could have asked the period. the question in the context of the previous question. Mr. Broughan: I recently met members of the Irish Hard of Hearing Association on behalf of Television Subtitling. the Labour Party. I was a little shocked and taken 11. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for aback by their presentation, particularly in regard Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to the performance of some Irish broadcasters if his attention has been drawn to the long-stand- such as TV3, on which subtitling is practically ing campaign by organisations representing citi- non-existent. The association gave credit to RTE, zens with a hearing disability for 100% subtitling particularly RTE One, for achieving an 80% stan- of television programmes by 2010; the steps he dard, but pointed out that we should emulate the intends to take to ensure equality of viewing BBC and other British commercial stations on rights for all citizens; and if he will make a state- which there is a major take-up of facilities for ment on the matter. [19195/04] people who are hard of hearing or deaf. Does the Minister agree this is a fundamental 254. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for equality issue? Does he further agree it is time, Communications, Marine and Natural Resources rather than throwing the issue to another quango his policy on the development of subtitled tele- or to the BCI as regulator, for him to take a pol- vision broadcasts to allow persons with poor itical decision and state that we will have 100% hearing to enjoy the full benefit of television pro- subtitling on all our TV stations by 2009 or 2010? grammes; and if he envisages introducing legal We want that standard because it is an equality obligations on broadcasters to fulfil targets in this issue. It should be done. regard. [19465/04] Mr. D. Ahern: It is not for me to make a politi- Mr. D. Ahern: I propose to take Questions cal decision in this respect. Nos. 11 and 254 together. Section 19(11) of the Broadcasting Act 2001 Mr. Broughan: The Minister is a politician. provides that the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland shall make rules requiring each broad- Mr. D. Ahern: The Deputy was a Member caster to take specified steps to promote the when the Broadcasting Act 2001, supported by understanding and enjoyment by persons who are the Labour Party, was passed. deaf or hard of hearing on programmes trans- mitted by each broadcaster. Mr. Broughan: We tried to amend it and we As the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland is failed. a statutorily independent body, I have no day-to- day role in the making of those rules. However, Mr. D. Ahern: Section 19(11) requires the my Department has requested the commission to Broadcasting Commission of Ireland to make give priority to this work. I understand the com- rules regarding subtitling requiring each broad- mission’s work is now well advanced. The com- caster to take specific steps to promote the under- mission held a number of forum style meetings standing and enjoyment by persons who are hard involving the various interested parties in the of hearing of programmes transmitted. The final quarter of last year. Deputy cannot have it every way. The format of the consultative process was decided on by the commission having consulted Mr. Broughan: We tried to amend it but the with interested organisations representing people Minister would not let us. who are deaf or hard of hearing. I understand that the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland is Mr. D. Ahern: As usual the Labour Party now nearing the end of its work which is now wants to have it every way. The Deputy is giving focused on finalising access rules. While I do not out about quangos. It was set up by the Labour have a role in drawing up the rules that would Party. The Oireachtas gave it the power to makes apply to both broadcasters licensed by the Broad- these rules independently of the political process. casting Commission of Ireland and to RTE, I am I fully accept RTE. The beauty of a public service in agreement with the principle established in the broadcaster is that it responds much better than Broadcasting Act 2001 that people who are deaf the private sector to issues such as this. One of or hard of hearing should have improved access the reasons I brought forward RTE’s charter was 279 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 280

[Mr. D. Ahern.] number of objections lodged following the grant- to include the guiding principles for which the ing of planning permission by Mayo County taxpayer will get a return for the investment Council in respect of the proposed gas terminal being made in the licence fee. It was a pity the at Bellanaboy. No representations have been Labour Party did not make a submission to the made to me by the developers over the past year consultation process when the charter was going seeking meetings with me in respect of any through. The Deputy could have made all those aspects of the Corrib development. points in the submission. A meeting took place on 19 September 2003 at which the Taoiseach and a number of Ministers Mr. Crowe: The Minister said this is a priority were present. This meeting was requested by issue for the Broadcasting Commission of Shell. The Shell representatives took the oppor- Ireland. When will it be implemented? Is the tunity to brief the Taoiseach and Ministers on the Minister aware the hard of hearing and the deaf are interested in politics and that many have diffi- then state of the project and the concerns of the culty following “Oireachtas Report”? What is the company regarding the planning and appeal pro- priority? Is there a lack of will or is it a matter cess regarding the Bellanaboy site. No other of cost? meetings between the company and myself have occurred in the period referred to in the question. Mr. D. Ahern: The Broadcasting Commission In the past year my Department has had a total of Ireland undertook significant consultation in of six meetings with Shell regarding the Corrib this respect. It had a number of fora chaired by development. Kieran Mulvey on 7 and 25 November 2003, 11 December 2003 and 14 January 2004. These fora Mr. Kehoe: What assurances has the Minister were attended by representatives of the indigen- of State given to the developers, Shell, prior to ous broadcasters, ComReg, cable operators, the the matter going to An Bord Pleana´la? Has he Irish Deaf Society, the Irish Hard of Hearing met objectors and environmental groups in Mayo Association, the National Association of Deaf during the past two years? I understand the Mini- People and the National Council for the Blind. ster of State said he had no meetings with the A series of bilateral and technical sub-committee developers but has he met any of the environ- meetings were also held. These are being evalu- mental groups in Mayo and, if so, did he give ated. The work is well advanced. them any undertakings? When is it expected the matter will come back from An Bord Pleana´la? Mr. Broughan: When? If the outcome of the planning issues is positive Mr. D. Ahern: The consultation document is for developers what will be the next step for the being prepared for issue to the public in July Department? 2004. Under the legislation, the commission is required, by statute, to make available to the pub- Mr. Browne: I did I make any commitments to lic a copy of any of the draft rules for inspection. Shell nor did I meet any of the environmental It is proposed, in addition to a public notice on groups from Mayo. As the Deputy is aware, Shell radio regarding the consultation, the draft rules submitted a planning application to Mayo County should be circulated to a wide range of organis- Council on 17 December 2003. Planning per- ations, groups and individuals and, thereafter, the mission was granted by Mayo County Council on Broadcasting Commission of Ireland will make a 30 April 2004 for a gas terminal with 75 con- decision. The timeframe for the consultation is ditions. The decision by Mayo County Council July to mid-September with consideration of was appealed to An Bord Pleana´la by 14 parties. responses by the commission in October 2004. It Shell also lodged an appeal regarding some of the hopes to have the access rules come into effect conditions. The matter is now with An Bord Ple- before December 2004. ana´la and I have no intention of getting involved with that body. We await its decision. Natural Gas Grid. 12. Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for Mr. Kehoe: Did any other public representa- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources tives from the county involved attend the meeting the meetings he has had in the past year regard- in December 2003? ing the development of the Corrib gas field; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Mr. Browne: At the meeting with the Taoi- [19292/04] seach and the chief executive of Shell on 19 Sep- Mr. Browne: I have organised no meetings tember 2003 were the Minister for Communi- regarding the proposed development of the Cor- cations, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy rib gas field in the past year. Dermot Ahern, and the Minister for the Envir- The Deputy will be aware from previous onment, Heritage and Local Government, replies that the Corrib gas field project has been Deputy Cullen. the subject of lengthy planning processes over the past two years. These processes are not complete Mr. Kehoe: There was no public representative and An Bord Pleana´la is currently considering a from the county involved at that meeting. 281 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 282

Harbours and Piers. When does the Minister of State think we will receive an answer from his Department and the 13. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Department of the Environment, Heritage and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Local Government on a deal with the OPW if the the plans his Department has for the site owned new decentralisation package is to be put in place by his Department in Ferrybank, County Wex- and the building constructed on the site in ford; and if he will make a statement on the mat- question? ter. [19293/04] Mr. Browne: The site at Ferrybank consists of Mr. Browne: I hope the OPW will make a reclaimed foreshore. This reclamation took place decision quickly on the site in question and allow as part of the works connected with the Wexford us to locate the headquarters of the Department main drainage scheme and involved the depo- of the Environment, Heritage and sition at Ferrybank of material that had been 4 o’clock Local Government there. I welcome dredged or excavated elsewhere in the harbour. the fact that Deputy Kehoe is in fav- our of decentralisation given the comments of his The lease that was granted under the Fore- Leader and deputy leader on “Morning Ireland” shore Acts to authorise the deposition of the recently, both of whom appear to be totally dredge spoil and other material at Ferrybank has opposed to it. expired. In those circumstances and as the area concerned now consists of reclaimed foreshore, Mr. D. Ahern: They are trying to have it the land in question is State property within the every way. meaning of the State Property Act 1954. The Foreshore Acts do not apply to it. Mr. Durkan: The Minister should get off the I am conscious that the land occupies a strategi- platform. Fianna Fa´il cannot have it every way cally important location within Wexford Har- either. In the budget the party cannot make bour. Accordingly, I view it as essential that an promises it cannot or does not intend to keep. It appropriate use is identified for the area that will is about time the party came clean on that and integrate well with overall plans for the harbour cut out the nonsense. area and Wexford generally. I understand the Office of Public Works is considering the area in Mr. D. Ahern: Fine Gael Deputies say one question, along with a number of other possible thing here and then go home where they say alternatives, as a potential location for the pro- something else. They are hypocrites. posed new headquarters of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- Mr. Browne: Shortly after the recent site ment. I am advised also that the Wexford local invasion, I attended a meeting in Wexford with authorities have given preliminary consideration representatives of the OPW, Wexford County to the possible use of part of the area for amenity Council and my departmental officials to see and related purposes. what co-operative measures could be put in place In view of this interest and given the location to resolve the difficulty. Wexford County Council of the land in question, I believe there are good is seeking proposals on security measures for the prospects for the early identification of an appro- site and we hope decisions will be made shortly. priate form of beneficial use for the land in I am sure the council in conjunction with the question. OPW and my Department will discuss the issue of costs. I read in a newspaper last week that Wexford County Council has paid approximately Mr. Kehoe: I welcome the fact that this site is \ being considered as a potential location for the 50,000 to clean up the site but I am not sure who proposed new headquarters of the Department of will ultimately bear the cost. the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- Irish Language Broadcasting. ment when it moves to Wexford. This would make an excellent site. However, certain con- 14. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for ditions would have to be laid down before any Communications, Marine and Natural Resources building takes place on the site. when he intends to bring proposals to Govern- The Minister of State will be well aware it was ment to establish TG4 as an independent statu- invaded by, wealthy business people, namely, tory entity; and if he will make a statement on Travellers, on the last bank holiday weekend. the matter. [19213/04] Wexford County Council has stated this site will Mr. D. Ahern: TG4 is primarily an Irish langu- not be used again by, Travellers or convoys. The age television station. It first broadcast on 31 use of the site on the last bank holiday weekend October 1996 and is currently part of the RTE had serious repercussions for the business people family of services. While the station is overseen and the adjoining River Bank Hotel, which had by Comhairle Teilifı´s na Gaeilge, a body to close that weekend. Who paid for the clean up appointed by the RTE authority, the programme operation on the site? Did the Department incur for Government featured a commitment to sup- any of the expenditure, through Wexford County port the development of Irish language broad- Council, because it owns the site or did the coun- casting and establish TG4 as a separate statutory cil incur the full cost? body. TG4 provides a comprehensive range of 283 Other 29 June 2004. Questions 284

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Mr. Broughan: The Minister mentioned Comh- programmes primarily in the Irish language which airle Teilifı´s na Gaeilge in his reply. Does he reflect the cultural diversity of the whole island. intend to establish a separate authority in the These include programmes which entertain, independent statutory system or will the broad- inform and educate, cover sporting, religious and casting authority have responsibility for all broad- cultural activities and cater for the expectations casting when it takes over from the Broadcasting of all age groups in the community whose pre- Commission of Ireland? We all agree that TG4 ferred spoken language is Irish or who otherwise has done an outstanding job on the reporting of have an interest in Irish. TG4 also provides news the proceedings of the Houses of the Oireachtas and current affairs programming primarily in the and politics generally. Given its past achieve- Irish language and covers proceedings in the ments, does the Minister envisage a special role Houses of the Oireachtas and the European Par- for TG4 in the projected Irish parliament channel liament. Furthermore, the station facilitates con- about which we have talked on some committees temporary cultural expression and encourages dealing with broadcasting? and promotes innovation and experimentation in broadcasting. Mr. D. Ahern: I agree with Deputy Broughan While TG4 is primarily funded from grant-in- that TG4 has an exemplary record which is one aid by my Department, it receives income from of the reasons we wish it to be established as a advertising. Section 47 of the Broadcasting Act separate entity. I expect the station will operate 2001 provides for one hour of programming to be under a Broadcasting Authority of Ireland Act or provided by RTE to TG4 each day. Provision of pre-existing legislation as a separate commercial approximately \24 million in grant-in-aid has entity. TG4 has been reasonably successful in been made for TG4 in 2004. The Broadcasting promoting the Parliament and I encourage it to Act 2001 provides for the establishment of TG4 proceed on that basis. as an independent statutory entity and I intend to bring forward proposals shortly to give effect to Energy Resources. the commitment in the programme for Govern- 15. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for ment in this regard. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the number of wind energy sites that have Mr. Broughan: At exactly this time last year, received grant aid from his Department in the the Minister’s progress report on the programme past year; and if he will make a statement on the for Government indicated that proposals would matter. [19289/04] shortly be brought forward to establish TG4 as a separate statutory body. “Shortly” has now Mr. D. Ahern: Building of renewable energy become 13 months. When does the Minister based electricity generating plants is supported by intend to bring forward the necessary legislation? my Department under the alternative energy Is it the case that the Broadcasting Authority of requirement programme, AER VI. According to Ireland Bill must first be introduced to allow the the underlying principle of this competitive pro- Minister to see the overall shape of public service cess, prospective generators are invited to make broadcasting or has the Minister given any a formal application to build, own and operate thought to this scenario? newly installed renewable energy based elec- In his progress report, the Minister referred in tricity generating plant and to supply electricity the context of Irish language broadcasting to the to the ESB under a power purchase agreement of 5% fund. Does the Minister have any details and up to 15 years. Prospective generators who sub- figures on the operation of the fund? How much mit the lowest bids in each category are offered has been drawn down and how much will be used contracts up to the available capacity. Under the for Irish language programming? most recent competitions, AER V and AER VI, which were launched in 2001 and 2003 respect- Mr. D. Ahern: I suggest the Deputy should put ively, there was no grant-aid associated with the down a separate question on the 5% fund. I offers of contracts. Although my Department has understand that the Broadcasting Commission of not provided grant aid to any wind energy site in Ireland is bringing forward as part of its duties the past year, there may be project investors who details of a draft scheme on the disbursement of continue to enjoy tax benefits under section 486B the fund. of the Finance Act 1997 as inserted in 1998. There has been a slow down on the decision to Sustainable Energy Ireland administers a establish TG4 as a separate statutory entity due renewable energy research, development and to the fairly dramatic decisions we have made on demonstration programme which has an overall foot of the licence fee increase. We have now budget of \16.25 million to 2006. The programme decided strategically to bring forward a Broad- is open to all renewable energy technologies and casting Authority of Ireland Bill whereby RTE covers policy studies, field research, feasibility will be subject to the same regulation as indepen- studies and technology research, development dent operators. Funding into the future is also an and demonstration proposals. The programme issue for TG4. Additional costs which may be aims to stimulate deployment of renewable incurred when the station leaves the RTE energy technologies close to market and address umbrella organisation must be considered. information and education needs to raise the 285 Adjournment 29 June 2004. Debate Matters 286 awareness and willingness of all relevant players of awarding contracts or enticing new projects to actively engage in the market. The main focus into the system. of the programme is on stimulating increased I accept that, with new technology and better application and deployment of renewable energy understanding of the complex technical issues, it technologies. While Sustainable Energy Ireland is possible to put extra capacity on the grid. While has approved two wind energy projects for fund- my aspirations are one matter, we must be cau- ing under the programme, neither has received tious to ensure that we do not cause blackouts any payment as state-aid clearance must first be because of the huge amount of wind energy being obtained from the European Commission. put on the system. That would cause difficulty in time of need. Mr. Kehoe: As a strong supporter of wind energy, I welcome the alternative energy pro- Dr. Cowley: I know six jobs will be created gramme. However, smaller operators which have from what will possibly be the largest wind farm received planning permission and funding are in the world, Bellacorick. However, given that unable to obtain contracts under AER VI. The 300 people will lose their jobs in the area and that people who are trying to develop wind energy three new peat burning plants will open in the production must be looked after in some way. midlands, what plans has the Minister for those 300 people in Mayo? An independent report is needed. The peat is available in Mayo, which Mr. D. Ahern: I agree that a strong element of could ensure Bellacorick would stay open or per- the Government’s policy is to increase the num- haps a new station could be provided like in the ber of renewable energy projects and the AER midlands where there are three new stations. VI contract situation has brought forward a con- Will the Minister stop the destruction of acid siderable number of those. Matters have slowed drains to make way for a wind farm which will somewhat because of the moratorium, but that only employ six people while 300 people are has been lifted. In conjunction with the various made redundant? Will he allow an independent players involved, I recently set up a renewable report to be carried out to prove Bellacorick peat energy forum, which is meeting as we speak, to plant could continue or that a new peat plant bring forward an agreement between all the oper- should be built for the west which is the most ators and interests on the way forward, especially socio-economically deprived area in Ireland? Will in terms of the significant technical issues. I am he ensure the destruction of the drains is stopped glad to report that significant progress has been so that whatever is in Bellacorick can be pre- made by the group. served to allow a new power station to be developed for the people of the west who need it Mr. Eamon Ryan: Does the Minister agree more than those in the midlands? that, given the developments of the past year in wind turbine technology which allow turbines to Mr. Crawford: Will the Minister indicate to the ride through any fault in the grid system and to House when small operators can expect to assist the grid operator in terms of voltage and receive the go-ahead for their wind farms? They frequency consistency, the stated level of wind have spent money and need to know when they generated electricity we could take, which was can begin. stated as 800 MW by the Minister in committee, now looks to be a cautious figure? Given the new Mr. D. Ahern: These are issues for the national technology breakthrough, we could now take grid, Eirgrid, and for the particular project 2,000 MW or 3,000 MW on to our system. Has people. The moratorium has been lifted and I the Minister or the Department taken an official would like to see some progress in the area. position on that? With regard to the issues raised by Dr. Cowley, At the Select Committee on Communications, these are commercial decisions which are made Marine and Natural Resources last week the ESB by ESB and I have no involvement in that admitted that its innovative and welcome Kish respect. bank development has severe difficulty in getting off the ground and looks like it will not be built Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate. within the timeframe specified under the terms of AER VI. If an operator who has been offered an Adjournment Debate Matters. AER VI contract is clearly unable to meet the An Ceann Comhairle: I wish to advise the deadlines, will the Department wait until the end House of the following matters in respect of of the timeframe it set out or, where it is clear a which notice has been given under Standing project is not being developed sufficiently Order 21 and the name of the Member in each quickly, will it intervene and reallocate the AER case: (1) Deputy O´ Caola´in — the need for the VI funding to a different operator? Minister to take urgent action in a case to grant a family reunification visa to an eleven-year-old Mr. D. Ahern: We have brought forward a con- girl (details supplied) whose parents are legally sultation process to decide where we move fol- resident in Ireland; (2) Deputy O´ Snodaigh — the lowing the success of the AER VI programme. I urgent need for the Minister to grant a school would like to think we will move to a new system (details supplied) disadvantaged status as it is the 287 Leaders’ 29 June 2004. Questions 288

[An Ceann Comhairle.] Last week the Ta´naiste, when under pressure, only school in an area of disadvantage not to have spoke of quitting office and stated that she would such status; (3) Deputy Ring — to ask the Mini- not be pushed. Is there no limit to her tolerance? ster the current position with regard to a school Is there anything her partners in Government (details supplied) in County Mayo; (4) Deputy could get up to that would force her to walk away Finneran — the need for the Minister to address or stand up to the Taoiseach and remove herself the proposed refurbishment and extension at a from the trappings of office? Does the Ta´naiste school in Roscommon (details supplied); (5) not recognise that these consistent trends give a Deputy Crawford — to ask the Minister for clear indication that the Progressive Democrats Health and Children to take immediate action to Party in Government has been steamrolled by ensure that sufficient money is available for home Fianna Fa´il and that her party is far removed help or home care and that the people providing from keeping the country clean, something she this work get a proper mileage allowance; (6) said she would do when she entered this coali- Deputy McGinley — to ask the Minister the tion Government? reason he dismissed the chairperson of the Civil Defence board last week; (7) Deputy Pat Breen The Ta´naiste: I am not certain what the Depu- — to ask the Minister the current position with ty’s question is. The forged signature used by regard to the Quilty, Scariff and Feakle sewerage councillor Lorcan Allen was not a Government schemes; (8) Deputy Neville — orthodontic ser- decision. I am not here to answer for how any vices in mid-western region; (9) Deputy Glennon party deals with misdemeanours of that kind. — the proposed sale by the Dublin Port Auth- That is a matter for the Fianna Fa´il Party, not ority to private buyers of the harbours at Balbrig- Government. gan and Skerries; (10) Deputy Cowley — to ask The use of Oireachtas envelopes is governed the Minister to examine the situation where a by regulation. The Committee on Members’ planned extension at a school (details supplied) Interests recently issued a code of conduct on to the value of \100,000 will fail to address the their use. Perhaps the matter should be resolved present and future needs of the school; and (11) there or by the Standards in Public Office Com- Deputy Joe Higgins — to raise with the Minister mission. I believe Oireachtas envelopes were the concern over the case of a person (details used widely by a number of sides in this House supplied). in the recent local elections campaign. I have in The matters raised by Deputies McGinley, my possession some letters sent out by Deputies Glennon, Crawford and O´ Caola´in have been seeking support, not all from the Government selected for discussion. side.

Leaders’ Questions. Mr. Kenny: I did not ask the Ta´naiste about Mr. Kenny: The Ta´naiste and her party’s what was sent out to party members. I asked if members have consistently portrayed themselves she recognises the consistent trend. She said she as the defenders of the people from the wrath of was there to prevent Fianna Fa´il from having sin- Fianna Fa´il in Government and the standards gle party Government and the kind of ethics it that party would bring about if it was on its own would bring to Government. \ in Government. Her party’s members tell us con- The decision to allocate 50 million to Punch- stantly that the Progressive Democrats Party is in estown was made between two Fianna Fa´il Mini- Government to keep Government clean. sters in a Government of which the Ta´naiste is a \ The Ta´naiste failed to prevent the sweetheart member. The decision to spend 40 million on deal on Punchestown between two Fianna Fa´il electronic voting, which has turned into a com- Ministers or the mismanagement of the electronic plete and utter shambles, was made by the voting by the Fianna Fa´il director of elections. In Government of which she is a member. There are the past month we have seen a litany of breaches other breaches of ethics by the Government of of ethics by Fianna Fa´il representatives. We saw which she is a member. Does she understand her the misuse of Department facilities by the Mini- party is being steamrolled, as the smaller party in ster for Education and Science, for which he has government, by the Government and that Fianna apologised, the misuse by the Minister of State at Fa´il has no intention of standing clear of breaches the Department of Enterprise, Trade and of ethics of which there is a consistent and clear Employment, Deputy Fahey, of facilities within trend, for which some Ministers have been forced the Ta´naiste’s Department, reports in the to come into the House to apologise? Does she national press of Fianna Fa´il election literature regard forgery as a serious matter? It is a crimi- being stapled to voting cards and the misuse of nal offence—— the diplomatic bag to issue to foreign affairs per- sonnel throughout the world a letter signed by Mr. Allen: Not for Fianna Fa´il. the Taoiseach, a facility only made available to the Taoiseach’s party. Now we learn of approxi- Mr. Kenny: ——which could be reported to the mately 2,000 letters with the forged signature of Garda. In that sense, if what happened in this the Taoiseach, for which a Fianna Fa´il councillor instance happened under my leadership, that per- has accepted responsibility. son would be expelled from the party. 289 Leaders’ 29 June 2004. Questions 290

The Ta´naiste: Of course forging somebody’s Mr. Rabbitte: I am authorised to tell the House signature is a serious offence and it is perhaps that Deputy Stagg also wishes that the animal inevitably a matter for the Garda Sı´ocha´na, but should be brought under control before, as how parties are governed as political parties is not Fluther Good would say, anything derogatory a matter for me in my capacity as Ta´naiste and a happens. I assure the Ceann Comhairle on that. member of the Government. The Deputy may not agree with some of the decisions made, for Mr. Kenny: The Abattoirs Bill is due to come example, in regard to electronic voting, but they before the House. were honest decisions. Mr. Rabbitte: Will the Government bring for- Mr. McCormack: Not at all. ward legislative proposals to implement the all- party committee on building land and, if so, The Ta´naiste: They were not unethical when? We have had the report on this matter for decisions. a number of months but no action on foot of it has been taken by the Government despite the Mr. Durkan: They were daft. fact that since 1997 the price of houses has trebled from \97,000 in 1997 to \300,000 for an The Ta´naiste: They were not dishonest average new house today. As the Ta´naiste is decisions. aware, the most recent figures show that 50% of all new families cannot afford a house of their Mr. Hayes: They were bulldozed through. own. They show that the number on the public housing waiting list has increased from 26,000 in Mr. English: They were a waste of money. 1996 to 60,000 now. We know that the price of a new house has increased at nine times the rate of Mr. Durkan: One decision cost \60 million. inflation, at five times the rate of average earn- ings and at four times the increase in the cost of The Ta´naiste: Deputy Kenny may be of a view building a house. The single factor that is fuelling that the priorities should have been different and this spiral is the cost of building land. The contri- he is entitled to that view. bution of the site cost to the cost of a house is between 40% and 50% while it was between 13% Mr. D. Ahern: There was all-party agreement and 14% in the past. on it. For all these years the Government has pre- varicated. It has not made an intervention that The Ta´naiste: They were not dishonest, unethi- has not made the situation worse. The Taoiseach cal decisions—— dawdled for three years indicating that a consti- tutional impediment might exist and that he (Interruptions). might put forward a constitutional amendment. He did not do so, and the all-party committee has The Ta´naiste: ——and I am sure Deputy borne out the submission the Labour Party made Kenny will accept that. I believe that all my col- to it. In other words, it is possible to intervene in leagues in Government operate to the highest the common good to control the cost of building possible standards. land at current use value plus a premium. What is delaying the Ta´naiste in acting? She (Interruptions). had no difficulty with the citizenship referendum in rushing an amendment through this House and The Ta´naiste: To be fair to the Minister, the other House, yet no action has been taken on Deputy Dempsey, he apologised and clarified the this, although the situation is getting worse. The position last week, and we should accept that. all-party committee confirmed there was no con- stitutional impediment, notwithstanding the fact Mr. O’Dowd: The man beside the Ta´naiste that the Government recruited further consult- does not think so. ants, Goodbody consultants——

Mr. Rabbitte: I have read that there is a black An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy must puma wandering around the Ceann Comhairle’s conclude. home area—— Mr. Rabbitte: ——who reported a number of An Ceann Comhairle: That is not an appropri- months ago on who owns the building land ate subject for a leader’s question. around this city. I do not know why the Govern- ment would want to know that. It already knows, Mr. Naughten: It is only a pussycat. or if it does not, that information is available in Mount Street. Mr. Rabbitte: I take this opportunity to make it clear that I had nothing to do with that. The Ta´naiste: It is true that one in every seven houses in this State was built in the past six or so Mr. Durkan: The Deputy did not release him. years. Therefore, there is a major demand issue 291 Leaders’ 29 June 2004. Questions 292

[The Ta´naiste.] time there was a view that a constitutional refer- in addition to the points raised by the Deputy. I endum was required in regard to property rights, share his view that we need to act on the all-part but that does not now seem to be the legal posi- committee report. Windfall gains that owners of tion. I hope we will be in a position sooner rather land or developers get as a result of a planning than later to bring in the necessary legislation in decision of a local authority should be bestowed this area. more on the public or the community interest rather than on the personal interest of the land- Mr. J. Higgins: After the EU-US summit in owner. I understand that the Minister for the Dromoland Castle, the Taoiseach stated that Environment, Heritage and Local Government is questions about United States prison camps were reflecting on this report and he is due to bring answered to his and the Ta´naiste’s satisfaction. proposals to Government. As the Deputy said, it Did Mr. Bush say that Guantanamo camp will be is an all-party committee report. As he may be closed or is it to the Ta´naiste’s satisfaction that aware, the representative of my party on that psychological torture continues there on pris- committee supports action along the lines the oners kept in cages with no charge, trial or access Deputy suggests. I hope we will be in a position to relatives, friends or lawyer, although the to do that relatively soon. Supreme Court decision of yesterday might change that somewhat? The Ta´naiste’s colleague, Mr. Rabbitte: I am grateful to the Ta´naiste for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law saying that her party supports it because when my Reform, declared he was shocked at the torture party advocated it, the Minister of State, Deputy in Guantanamo, which if he was serious about it Parlon, described the notion of capping the price — torture being a heinous crime — one might of building land as “gift wrapped in an ideology consider he might go and arrest the instigator somewhere to the left of Stalin”. That was the rather than send 4,000 gardaı´ to give Mr. Bush view of the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon. safe passage through the Irish countryside? The truth is the Ta´naiste’s colleague, the Minister for Mr. Connaughton: That is what was in his Justice, Equality and Law Reform, erected Guan- script. tanamo-style detention cages for protesters in Shannon Industrial Estate, which he tried to hide Mr. Rabbitte: Where the incidence of home- given that the Garda Commissioner refused me lessness has doubled, the price of houses has permission to inspect them on Saturday. One trebled and the number on the waiting list is two could call it the Minister’s very own “Shannon- and a half times the number who were on it in amo”. It represents a shameful episode in the 1996, the only measures the Ta´naiste’s party in security arrangements. government took was to abolish the first-time Was the real role of the Irish Presidency at this buyer’s grant, bring in tax incentives for investors, summit to whitewash the criminal invasion and ensure rents were hiked, cut rent allowance and occupation of Iraq? In giving credence to the sabotage the affordable housing scheme. The sham handover, as it is called, has it not flown in Government was committed to the provision of the face of the instincts of the Irish people? Does 10,000 net additional new affordable and social the Ta´naiste believe the Irish people believe sov- houses under Sustaining Progress, not one of ereignty means sticking a bunch of hand-picked which has been built. bureaucrats and CIA stooges in a palace and heavily policing their ministries with colonial An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should administrators under a foreign occupying army? conclude. That is what she gave credence to at the weekend. Mr. Rabbitte: How long does it take the She has shamed the people and, unfortunately, it Ta´naiste to confer on this subject when there are might be believed that we agree with her. other matters she can railroad through this House at a few weeks’ notice? The Ta´naiste: I certainly do not accept that. The Irish Government, on behalf of the Euro- The Ta´naiste: I am sure the Deputy is aware pean Union, welcomed to Ireland the President we made a number of interventions in the market of the United States of America, who is the head to try to take the investors out and he knows what of a country that has been extraordinarily friendly were the consequences of that — they drove up to this country and with which we have very close the price of rented property. One thing we have political, cultural and economic ties. There was learnt is that there are no easy answers here and a very frank discussion on the prisoner issues. I when one intervenes in the market, it does not understand the President, at her meeting, also always have the consequences one might desire. raised issues of concern to the Irish people in this I strongly favour the notion that windfall gains regard, as did the Taoiseach at the bilateral bestowed on owners of land as a result of a meeting. decision of a planning authority should not go It is the intention to have direct, fair and free simply to the owner of the land but rather to the elections in Iraq in January 2005. The transition public or the community interest. That is more or process is now under a UN mandate and we very less along the lines of what the all-party commit- much welcome that. Ireland, as a member state tee suggests. We can legislate for that. For a long of the European Union, will play its part in help- 293 Requests to move Adjournment of 29 June 2004. Da´il under Standing Order 31 294 ing to ensure the people of Iraq, who have suf- Mr. Neville: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il fered far too much, are in a position to have life under Standing Order 31 to discuss the following return to normal as quickly as possible and, in issue of urgent national importance: the strike by particular, to have their own directly-elected prison doctors which has caused the withdrawal government elected in a fair and free manner. of the prison medical services, including checks on the mental and physical health of prisoners on Mr. J. Higgins: The Ta´naiste did not answer the their entry to prison; in particular, the urgent question. It had nothing to do with the close ties need for psychiatric treatment for a woman who between the people of Ireland and the United is on suicide watch in an isolated cell away from States or with business or investment. I asked her other inmates following her sentence for the mur- in the first instance about legitimising a criminal der of her seven year old son. invasion and occupation in which 10,000 people were slaughtered. Is it now the case that any Mr. P. Breen: I seek the adjournment of the country can do that and afterwards state it will Da´il under Standing Order 31 to discuss the fol- move on and conduct business as usual? Is that lowing important issue: the need for the Govern- the message the Ta´naiste gave the US President? ment to defer the flawed State Airports Bill 2004, The Ta´naiste did not answer my question on which will give the new Dublin Airport Authority prisoners. What is the position on the appalling control over the day-to-day running of Cork and civil rights abuses in Guantanamo Bay and in Shannon airports until the end of April 2005, other United States bases? The Taoiseach said which in turn could be detrimental to the future the Ta´naiste was satisfied with the answers given development of the airports as there will be no by President Bush. What answers did he give? representatives from Cork or Shannon on the Will Guantanamo Bay and the other prisoner board. camps be closed? Are people to be given lawyers and put on trial? If we do not receive answers, Mr. Connolly: I seek the adjournment of the we will draw the inference that the Ta´naiste is Da´il under Standing Order 31 to discuss the fol- satisfied that torture continues to be practised in lowing matters of urgent national concern: the prison bases by alleged western democracies. current position on the broadband diffusion plan of the Department of Communications, Marine The Ta´naiste: As the Deputy knows, we now and Natural Resources; the circumstances in have a UN mandate in Iraq. The Irish Govern- which Eircom enjoys an exclusive monopoly in ment regretted all along that the United States the provision of broadband to Eircom Phone- intervened when it did without a UN mandate. Watch subscribers; the inability of rival Internet We made that very clear, as the Deputy is aware. service providers to circumvent the Eircom On the prisoner issue, the President expressed PhoneWatch alarm system to enable them to his horror and disgust, as he did in public, at what install broadband; the restrictive practice this happened in Abu Ghraib in Iraq. He said those creates and the physical and psychological bar- responsible would be held responsible in an open riers created to the further development of the and transparent fashion. telecommunications market in Ireland.

Mr. J. Higgins: What about Guantanamo Bay? Mr. Naughten: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il under Standing Order 31 to discuss the fol- The Ta´naiste: The Deputy may have seen that lowing matter of urgent national importance: himself at the press conference. The US Supreme after months of safety critical testing of the Luas Court made a decision yesterday on Guantanamo trams, the Railway Procurement Agency has Bay. Obviously, the rule of law will take its failed to receive the final approval of the interim course. We have a different approach to some Railway Safety Commission. As a consequence, issues and I made that clear last week. However, there is an urgent need for the Minister for Trans- that does not take from the fact that this country port to explain the reason for the failure of the should always welcome the democratically- Railway Procurement Agency to achieve this elected head of another friendly democracy. That safety critical target. is what we did, just as President Bush was recently welcomed to Italy and France, to Turkey Mr. Ferris: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il this weekend and to many other places. We under Standing Order 31 to discuss the drastic engaged in dialogue with the President on points on which we agreed and on points on which there effects that rising fuel and other energy costs are is disagreement. That is the way it should be. having on farmers and fishermen as a con- sequence of fuel and energy prices outstripping the prices being received for produce, thus dam- Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under aging income levels. Standing Order 31. An Ceann Comhairle: Before coming to the Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I seek the adjournment Order of Business, I propose to deal with a num- of the Da´il under Standing Order 31 to discuss ber of notices under Standing Order 31. I will call the following specific and important matter of on the Deputies in the order in which they sub- public interest: the very grave circumstances in mitted their notices to my office. the nursing sector, as shown by the startling fig- 295 Order of 29 June 2004. Business 296

[Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in.] Order of Business. ures highlighted by the Irish Nurses’ Organis- The Ta´naiste: The Order of Business today ation, which indicate that the number of vacant shall be as follows: No. 13, motion re proposed nursing positions in the State will rise from 700 approval of Da´il E´ ireann of certain Acts of the currently to over 2,000 in the next 18 months; the 1999 Congress of the Universal Postal Union, fact that 70% of nurses in training leave the sys- back from committee; No. 14, motion re referral tem within two years of qualifying; the impli- to select committee of proposed approval by Da´il cations of this shortage for our beleaguered pub- E´ ireann of the transmission of natural gas by a lic health system; and the need for urgent and second pipeline; No. 15, motion re proposed effective action by the Minister for Health and approval of Da´il E´ ireann of the Commission on Children to address what is now a nursing crisis. Electronic Voting (Further Reports) Order 2004; No. 17, motion re Proceeds of Crime Mr. Sargent: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il (Amendment) Bill 1999; No. 23, National Monu- under Standing Order 31 to ascertain the Govern- ments (Amendment) Bill 2004 — Order for ment’s position on the flagrant breaches of legis- Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 24, Com- lation and guidelines pertaining to pre-paid missions of Investigation Bill 2003 — Order for Oireachtas envelopes following the evidence Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 25, State amassed from all around the country to the effect Airports Bill 2004 — Second Stage (resumed). It that candidates supporting Government parties in is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Stand- the main sent canvassing cards in such envelopes ing Orders, that the Da´il shall sit later than 8.30 or, more famously, a forged letter purporting to p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not be from the Taoiseach and signed by him seeking later than 10.30 p.m.; Nos. 13, 14, 15 and 17 shall votes from the people of Gorey. What action will be decided without debate; Report and Final Stages of No. 23 shall be taken today and the pro- the Government parties take to uphold the law? ceedings thereon shall, if not previously con- cluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 Mr. Morgan: I seek the adjournment of the minutes tonight by one question which shall be Da´il under Standing Order 31 to discuss the fol- put from the Chair and which shall, in relation lowing specific and important matter of public to amendments, include only those set down or interest: in light of the announcement of the clos- accepted by the Minister for the Environment, ure of the Chapelcross nuclear power station in Heritage and Local Government; Report and Scotland, the necessity to redouble our efforts to Final Stages of No. 24 shall be taken today and close the infamous neighbouring Sellafield the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously nuclear reprocessing plant; the failure of the concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 9.30 p.m. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and tonight by one question which shall be put from Local Government to use the opportunity the Chair and which shall, in relation to amend- afforded by Ireland’s Presidency of the European ments, include only those set down or accepted Union to further efforts to bring about the clos- by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law ure of Sellafield — a golden opportunity squan- Reform; the proceedings on the resumed Second dered — and to work for the progressive realis- Stage of No. 25 shall, if not previously concluded, ation of a nuclear-free Europe; and the necessity be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. tonight. to appoint a new Minister for the Environment, Private Members’ Business shall be No. 50, Heritage and Local Government, perhaps after motion re disabled person’s grant scheme. the reshuffle, who would be more proactive on this issue. An Ceann Comhairle: There are five proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal regarding the Mr. Gormley: I seek the adjournment of the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Da´il under Standing Order 31 to discuss the fol- Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 13, 14, 15 lowing issue of urgent national importance: the and 17 without debate agreed? fire on Sunday last at Dublin Port and the need Mr. Kenny: There is a change to the Order for the Ministers for Communications, Marine Paper I was handed coming in. No. 16 appears to and Natural Resources and the Environment, have vanished. Perhaps it has something to do Heritage and Local Government to investigate with Deputy Rabbitte’s reference to the puma in the causes and to ensure the best safety pro- Monaghan because it referred to the approval by cedures are put in place, including an examin- Da´il E´ ireann of the Abattoirs Act. ation of storage facilities, some of which are made I object to No. 15 being taken without debate. of plastic, in order to avoid serious pollution and This refers to electronic voting. The Government possible injury and loss of life in the future. gave no notice of this motion although the Mini- ster for the Environment, Heritage and Local An Ceann Comhairle: Having considered the Government contacted Deputy Allen by tele- matters raised, I do not consider them to be in phone. The commission produced an interim order under Standing Order 31. report on 29 April. We have not seen the final 297 Order of 29 June 2004. Business 298 report from the commission. The motion in the Exchequer of any of the companies involved in Minister’s name refers to actions recommended oil and gas exploration globally and to continue at paragraph 4-5 of the interim report but does unchecked. We are about to allow, without not refer to the issues raised by the commission debate in the Da´il, a further proposition concern- at paragraph 4-4. These issues were deemed not ing the sourcing and resourcing of our own oil to be within the commission’s terms of reference and gas requirements. but did, in the commission’s words, “have a bear- I wish also to speak about No. 15, the proposed approval of the Commission on Electronic Voting ing on the successful implementation of the sys- (Further Reports) Order 2004. The Minister, tem of elections in Ireland”. Included in those Deputy Cullen, did not contact my party col- issues, as the Minister knows, was the absence of league and spokesperson on the environment, a voter verifiable audit trail. Other issues raised Deputy Morgan, although he was in contact with in paragraph 4-4 were the responsibility of other party spokespersons on the matter. returning officers and the distribution of sur- Equality of treatment by the Minister’s office pluses under the electronic scheme. would be appreciated. However, the missive sent The Minister should be asked to explain the by the Chief Whip’s office talks about a compara- introduction of a reference to a comparative tive assessment of the secrecy and accuracy of the assessment in this order. The Minister voted current system for voting at elections and refer- down Deputy Allen’s efforts to have a reference endums as against the proposed Nedap/ in the legislation to comparative analysis between the Nedap system and other systems. Are we now Powervote system of electronic voting. The cur- to assume that this is an admission that the lack rent system—— of reference to comparisons was a serious omis- sion from the commission’s initial terms of refer- An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a ence? On that basis, I am opposed to taking No. debate on the matter—— 15 without debate. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I am not debating. I Mr. Rabbitte: No. 16 has also fallen off my am saying why the matter should be taken on the Order Paper. I do not know if there is any signifi- floor of the House. cance to that. It is five years since we first heard about the An Ceann Comhairle: We are debating Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill. I under- whether or not the matter should be taken with- stand that what is effectively a new Bill has been out debate. introduced by the Minister by way of amendment. What is the Government’s intention in respect of Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: We have not had the this Bill? Is it intended to seek to enact it between opportunity since the local and European parlia- now and the end of session and will the House mentary elections to have a debate, discussion or have an opportunity to examine what seems to be analysis of the conduct of the recent elections. substantially a new Bill? With regard to secrecy, it was the case——

Mr. Cuffe: It is difficult enough to get a copy of An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is going well the order on electronic voting. We will not have a outside the scope of the debate on the matter comparison between electronic and the existing before the House. manual system. At the heart of the order before the House is the need to have a comparative Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I do not think so, a assessment of the secrecy and accuracy of the cur- Cheann Comhairle. rent system with the electronic system. We should see a comparison between the two systems. An Ceann Comhairle: The matter before the We are not getting a voter verifiable audit trail, House has nothing to do with secrecy in the as Deputy Kenny has pointed out. We need to recent elections. have that. Surely we need to widen the com- mission’s terms of reference to allow it to look at ´ the issue of a voter verified audit trail. Caoimhghı´nOCaola´in: That is the explanatory note. Of course that is what it is. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I object to No. 14, the motion regarding the transmission of natural gas An Ceann Comhairle: We are debating by a second pipeline, being taken without debate. proposals—— I do not oppose the proposition, but we have not ´ had a debate on this very important area of our Caoimhghı´nOCaola´in: That is what the oil and gas resources. This is against the backdrop order entails. of a sweetheart deal by a former Minister, Mr. Ray Burke, and the Shell company regarding the An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair is speaking. Corrib field off the western seaboard. We must We are debating the proposal that Nos. 13, 14, recognise that this matter has not been substan- 15 and 17 be taken without debate. We are not tively addressed by the House. There are huge debating the contents of them. issues to be addressed, including the terminal sit- ing in Mayo and the sweetheart deal which allows Mr. Cuffe: No. 15 is about the secrecy and Shell to pay the least contribution to the accuracy—— 299 Order of 29 June 2004. Business 300

An Ceann Comhairle: This debate is not. It is An Ceann Comhairle: Are the proposals for about whether we should take the item without dealing with Nos. 13, 14, 15 and 17 agreed? debate or not. Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 23 agreed? Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: There are real and serious concerns because of local authorities’ dis- Mr. Kenny: I oppose this guillotine. posal of the traditional timber-framed polling booths that accorded real secrecy and their Mr. Sargent: There are many people outside replacement with cardboard interfold units, this House who do not want to see this legislation which allow four people to vote at the same time passed. They are afraid of the reputation of the in immediate proximity. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and There is a question mark over this and we have Local Government and what might happen if he gets his hands on the powers contained in the Bill. not had an opportunity to debate it. We oppose this legislation. The Minister’s repu- tation precedes him. An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a debate on the matter now. Mr. Cullen: There are probably as many people who do not want it passed as there were in all ´ Caoimhghı´nOCaola´in: These deficiencies those protests last weekend. require redress on the floor of this House. Mr. Sargent: Many of them are archaeologists The Ta´naiste: In the case of No. 16 relating to in the Minister’s Department. abattoirs licences, I do not know where it has gone. It was withdrawn by the Department of Mr. Cuffe: There are certainly more people Agriculture and Food but I do not know why. On who do not want it passed than there are Fianna No. 15, the motion re electronic voting, I indi- Fa´il councillors in Waterford. cated on the Order of Business last Thursday, when Deputy Gilmore asked, that we will renew Mr. Gilmore: This is an important Bill that will the order on the basis of legal advice that had give the Minister the power to destroy national just been brought to the Government’s attention. monuments. It is being rushed by the Govern- Deputy Allen agreed to take this matter without ment through the Houses. An hour for Report debate yesterday. Stage of such a major Bill is not sufficient — that is not enough time to debate even one amend- Mr. Allen: I had not seen the order. ment. The Labour Party opposes the guillotine. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I object to the guillo- The Ta´naiste: If the Deputy wishes to press the tine applying to Report and Final Stages of the matter we can provide time at 10.30 p.m. this National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004. evening and revise the Order of Business to deal We had indicated throughout the with the motion on electronic voting then. 5 o’clock passage of the legislation that a On No. 17, the motion re the proceeds of guillotine was not acceptable because crime, after the first interim report of the Flood of the import of what was involved in the Bill. tribunal, the Government indicated that it wished There should be full exercise of Members’ right to establish a corruption assets bureau by way of to participate in debate on this Bill, and the tak- legislation. After discussion, however, with both ing of amendments on Report Stage is vital to the Criminal Assets Bureau and the Attorney that. The time proposed will not allow for full General it was felt that it should form part of the address of the amendments that have been Criminal Assets Bureau, and this motion provides presented. I not only strongly object to the pow- for amending legislation. The intention is to move ers that will be bestowed on the incumbent Mini- the amending Bill to a committee, not to finish it ster but much fear arises from these powers being before the summer recess. vested in future occupants of that position. It is No. 14 refers discussion on the gas pipeline to simply unacceptable. a committee. I know Deputy O´ Caola´in has always been interested in interconnectors but The Ta´naiste: There was no guillotine on Com- they were not always as benign as they are today. mittee Stage but, as everyone here is aware, it is We will refer the matter to an all-party urgent that we complete the M50. The current committee. delays are costing us millions of euro and that is why we must pass this legislation. I cannot con- Mr. Kenny: How long will we have to discuss cede on this occasion. electronic voting tonight? Question put: “That the proposal for dealing The Ta´naiste: One hour. with No. 23 be agreed to.” 301 Order of 29 June 2004. Business 302

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 72; Nı´l, 57.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Jacob, Joe. Ahern, Michael. Keaveney, Cecilia. Ahern, Noel. Kelleher, Billy. Andrews, Barry. Kelly, Peter. Ardagh, Sea´n. Killeen, Tony. Brady, Johnny. Kirk, Se´amus. Brady, Martin. Lenihan, Brian. Brennan, Se´amus. McCreevy, Charlie. Browne, John. McDaid, James. Callanan, Joe. McDowell, Michael. Callely, Ivor. McGuinness, John. Carey, Pat. Martin, Michea´l. Carty, John. Moloney, John. Cassidy, Donie. Moynihan, Michael. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. Mulcahy, Michael. Coughlan, Mary. Nolan, M.J. Cowen, Brian. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Cregan, John. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Cullen, Martin. O’Connor, Charlie. Curran, John. O’Dea, Willie. Davern, Noel. O’Donnell, Liz. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Donovan, Denis. Dempsey, Noel. O’Keeffe, Batt. Dempsey, Tony. O’Malley, Fiona. Dennehy, John. Parlon, Tom. Devins, Jimmy. Power, Peter. Ellis, John. Power, Sea´n. Finneran, Michael. Sexton, Mae. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Smith, Brendan. Fleming, Sea´n. Smith, Michael. Glennon, Jim. Treacy, Noel. Grealish, Noel. Wallace, Dan. Hanafin, Mary. Walsh, Joe. Harney, Mary. Wilkinson, Ollie. Haughey, Sea´n. Woods, Michael. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Wright, G.V.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. Mitchell, Olivia. Boyle, Dan. Morgan, Arthur. Breen, Pat. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Broughan, Thomas P. Murphy, Gerard. Bruton, Richard. Naughten, Denis. Burton, Joan. Neville, Dan. Connaughton, Paul. Noonan, Michael. Costello, Joe. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Crawford, Seymour. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Crowe, Sea´n. O’Dowd, Fergus. Cuffe, Ciara´n. O’Keeffe, Jim. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Shea, Brian. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Sullivan, Jan. English, Damien. Pattison, Se´amus. Ferris, Martin. Penrose, Willie. Gilmore, Eamon. Quinn, Ruairı´. Gormley, John. Rabbitte, Pat. Hayes, Tom. Ring, Michael. Healy, Se´amus. Ryan, Eamon. Higgins, Joe. Ryan, Sea´n. Howlin, Brendan. Sargent, Trevor. Kehoe, Paul. Sherlock, Joe. Kenny, Enda. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Lynch, Kathleen. Stanton, David. McCormack, Pa´draic. Timmins, Billy. McGinley, Dinny. Twomey, Liam. McGrath, Paul. Upton, Mary. McHugh, Paddy. Wall, Jack. Mitchell, Gay.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Durkan and Broughan. 303 Order of 29 June 2004. Business 304

Question declared carried. prospect of provoking industrial action at the air- port, yet the guillotine is to come down on the An Ceann Comhairle: The House had agreed Bill tonight when a number of my colleagues, to sit until 10.30 p.m. but there is now a proposal including, I am sure, several whom I met in north that the House sit for a further hour to debate Dublin in recent weeks while talking to Aer No. 15 on the Order Paper. I suggest the Minister Rianta workers, would love to contribute. The of State at the Department of the Taoiseach bring time allocated is entirely inadequate and I oppose a proposal before the House detailing the time the proposal. slots, etc. for that debate. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 24, Report Mr. Sargent: The guillotine on this Bill indi- and Final Stages of the Commissions of Investi- cates that the Government is not thinking gation Bill 2003, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal through the matter. The number of people for dealing with No. 25, Second Stage of the State employed by Aer Rianta requires that much Airports Bill 2004, agreed? more time be given for Second Stage to allow the Government to listen to the views of Members Mr. Kenny: I object to the use of the guillotine who have not yet had a chance to speak. I ask because, very serious matters concerning the the Government to bear in mind that persons it State Airports Bill remain to be discussed and appointed to the relevant boards are protesting questions have not been answered. Given that no strongly about this legislation because they know business plans have been produced, to introduce that every bank manager would throw out a pro- legislation is to put the cart before the horse. We posal of this nature, which did not have a business have not had a response from the Government as plan. It is a requirement that the Government fol- to what would happen if, for instance, the Shan- low best practice and it is not doing so in this non Airport business plan did not stand up. regard because there is no business plan. We Would Shannon and Dublin airports then be held should deal with the issue on the basis of a busi- by the State, with Cork Airport standing alone? ness plan. The Bill and the use of the guillotine I oppose the proposal because serious questions are out of order. have not been answered. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The possible ramifi- cations of the passage of this Bill for the future Mr. Rabbitte: I agree that the time allocated of the airport network is undoubtedly serious. We for the Bill is entirely inadequate. We have had must recognise that one cannot treat the airport three guillotines today, with two each planned for network as if it consisted of stand-alone entities. tomorrow and Thursday, respectively. That is no The airports are interdependent in many ways, way to do the business of the House. No matter not only in case of emergency. The Bill is a very what pleas are made to the Government on this serious proposition and it is not appropriate or matter, we are still presented with a circumstance acceptable that a guillotine be applied tonight at in which legislation is rushed through the House 10.30 p.m. I hope the Ta´naiste will reconsider the at the last minute. proposal, as she has reconsidered one of the earl- In the case of the State Airports Bill, none of ier propositions, for which we thank her. the substantive issues has been answered. We do not know the reason it took a year to produce the The Ta´naiste: I am not in a position to concede Bill. Now that it has been produced, it provides time. It is important that the legislation is passed for a hilarious scenario in which the company will as quickly as possible in order that the interim be broken up, after which we will ask its constitu- boards can get on with the task of developing ent parts to bring forward plans to ascertain business at the three State airports. whether the break-up was justified. There will be no business plan or anything else, apart from the Question put: “That the proposal for dealing other subterranean stuff that is going on and the with No. 25 be agreed to.”

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 71; Nı´l, 53.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Cowen, Brian. Ahern, Michael. Cregan, John. Ahern, Noel. Cullen, Martin. Andrews, Barry. Curran, John. Ardagh, Sea´n. Davern, Noel. Brady, Johnny. de Valera, Sı´le. Brady, Martin. Dempsey, Noel. Brennan, Seamus. Dempsey, Tony. Browne, John. Dennehy, John. Callanan, Joe. Devins, Jimmy. Callely, Ivor. Ellis, John. Carey, Pat. Finneran, Michael. Carty, John. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Cassidy, Donie. Fleming, Sea´n. Coughlan, Mary. Glennon, Jim. 305 Order of 29 June 2004. Business 306

Ta´—continued

Grealish, Noel. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Hanafin, Mary. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Harney, Mary. O’Connor, Charlie. Haughey, Sea´n. O’Dea, Willie. Hoctor, Ma´ire. O’Donnell, Liz. Jacob, Joe. O’Donovan, Denis. Keaveney, Cecilia. O’Keeffe, Batt. Kelleher, Billy. O’Malley, Fiona. Kelly, Peter. Parlon, Tom. Killeen, Tony. Power, Peter. Kirk, Seamus. Power, Sea´n. Lenihan, Brian. Sexton, Mae. McCreevy, Charlie. Smith, Brendan. McDaid, James. Smith, Michael. McDowell, Michael. Treacy, Noel. McGuinness, John. Wallace, Dan. Martin, Michea´l. Walsh, Joe. Moloney, John. Wilkinson, Ollie. Moynihan, Michael. Woods, Michael. Mulcahy, Michael. Wright, G. V. Nolan, M. J.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. Morgan, Arthur. Boyle, Dan. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Breen, Pat. Murphy, Gerard. Broughan, Thomas P. Naughten, Denis. Bruton, Richard. Neville, Dan. Burton, Joan. Noonan, Michael. Connaughton, Paul. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Costello, Joe. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Crowe, Sea´n. O’Dowd, Fergus. Cuffe, Ciara´n. O’Keeffe, Jim. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Shea, Brian. English, Damien. O’Sullivan, Jan. Ferris, Martin. Pattison, Seamus. Gilmore, Eamon. Penrose, Willie. Gormley, John. Quinn, Ruairı´. Hayes, Tom. Rabbitte, Pat. Healy, Seamus. Ring, Michael. Higgins, Joe. Ryan, Eamon. Howlin, Brendan. Ryan, Sea´n. Kehoe, Paul. Sargent, Trevor. Kenny, Enda. Sherlock, Joe. Lynch, Kathleen. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. McCormack, Padraic. Stanton, David. McGinley, Dinny. Timmins, Billy. McGrath, Paul. Upton, Mary. McHugh, Paddy. Wall, Jack. Mitchell, Olivia.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Hanafin and Power; Nı´l, Deputies Durkan and Broughan.

Question declared carried. The Taoiseach reported several weeks ago on the overwhelming support for Mr. Verhofstadt to Mr. Kenny: According to the schedule of busi- take up the position of EU Commission Pres- ness for the week, a discussion on the outcome ident. It was then reported there was overwhelm- of the EU-US summit at Shannon has not been ing support for the Taoiseach himself and sub- proposed. A number of important questions need sequently Mr. Patten. All these candidates fell by to be answered. The transfer of power to make the wayside and I am happy Mr. Barroso, whom Iraq a sovereign state is the political issue in I mentioned as a serious candidate three weeks world politics and the House should receive a ago, has accepted the nomination which will be report from the Taoiseach and the Ta´naiste fol- ratified this evening. I assume that is the reason lowed by a question and answer session on this for the mini-Council later. Will the Ta´naiste com- important issue. The initial proposal was contro- ment on that? versial and we do not know the full details of the discussion that took place or the concerns The Ta´naiste: Time has not been set aside to expressed by the Taoiseach and the Ta´naiste to discuss the EU-US summit held at the weekend. the US President. Is it proposed to hold such a There will be a discussion tomorrow on the IGC debate this week? and the European Council meeting. A longer than usual discussion will take place but I do not 307 Order of 29 June 2004. Business 308

[The Ta´naiste.] An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a know whether the two debates can be married debate on this. A number of Members are offer- together. Perhaps the Whips will reflect on that. ing and we will not be able to hear them all. A meeting will take place in Brussels this evening to finalise the proposal for a new European Com- Mr. Sargent: I have been asked by a number of mission President for the next term. It is terrific communities to raise the issue of drinking outside that this will be finalised during the Irish Presi- public houses and other licensed premises. Has dency. The Taoiseach did not put his name for- account been taken of that under the intoxicating ward for selection. liquor Bill?

Mr. Kenny: I know that. The Ta´naiste: The Bill will be taken later this year. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has circulated the heads of the Bill to his The Tanaiste: During the IGC process, the ´ ministerial colleagues for their response. Government put forward a proposal regarding how the President should be chosen but that was Mr. Kehoe: Four vicious attacks on the elderly not acceptable to others. There should be a better have taken place in my county over the past ten way than the unedifying spectacle of nominations days. being made and shot down in public. We should be able to do things better and learn from that An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should ask for the future. a question on legislation. We enjoyed a successful Presidency and it con- cludes tomorrow evening. Perhaps tomorrow we Mr. Kehoe: Mandatory sentencing is needed will have an opportunity to discuss the important for people convicted of such attacks because com- matters relating to the various summits that munity service does not teach the perpetrators a took place. lesson. When will the criminal justice Bill be taken? Mr. Rabbitte: Did I understand the Ta´naiste correctly during Leader’s Questions that her The Ta´naiste: The heads of the criminal justice party favours bringing forward legislative pro- (miscellaneous provisions) Bill are expected later posals to implement the recommendations of the this year. A criminal justice (protection of confi- all-party committee on the price of building land? dential information) Bill is due later this year. The Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill 2002 has Is she speaking only for her own party or is she been enacted. speaking for the Government? When will legis- lation be brought before the House? Mr. Durkan: There is not much sign of that.

The Ta´naiste: I have no reason to believe the Mr. Quinn: In marking this successful Irish Government does not support the recommend- Presidency, the last of its kind, the European flag, ations in the committee’s report but the Govern- which has been raised for the six months should ment is awaiting a submission from the Minister be maintained on various buildings. for the Environment, Heritage and Local The building control Bill has been promised on Government. He informed me that he will bring a number of occasions. Is it likely to be published that to the attention of the Government after he later this year? receives the NESC report on this matter. The Ta´naiste: The flag is not a matter for me Mr. Rabbitte: When will that be? but it is quite a good suggestion. I thank the Deputy for his compliments on the Presidency. The Ta´naiste: Relatively soon. I discussed the The building control Bill is expected later this matter with the Minister a few minutes ago. year. ´ Mr. Sargent: Will stadas oifigu´ il don teanga Caoimhghı´nOCaola´in: The nursing and mid- Gaeilge san Aontas Eorpach be a token of wives Bill has been promised since the publi- appreciation for the work for which the Ta´naiste cation of the nursing commission report in 1998. It was stated in January that it would be pub- says the Taoiseach is appreciated? How tangible lished this year and in April we were told it was can that appreciation be for the people of not possible to indicate when it would be pub- Ireland? lished. Given the crisis in nursing and the INO’s Will time be made available to debate the post- indication of 2,000 vacant posts over the past 18 Shannon summit? months, will this legislation be brought forward? Can it help to address the crisis with which we An Ceann Comhairle: The matter has been dis- are faced? cussed. Has the Deputy a question on legislation? The Ta´naiste: Last week the Government Mr. Sargent: This issue goes beyond legislation. cleared the heads of the medical practitioners Bill If the peace is as bloody as the war—— and I understand from the Minister for Health 309 Order of 29 June 2004. Business 310 and Children that the nurse’s Bill will be the next Mr. J. Higgins: With all the practice gardaı´ got legislation taken relating to professionals in the capturing black balloons in their brave raid on health care sector. I am not in a position to say the peace camp, a black cat would be nothing to when we will have that. them. Does the Government intend to amend the Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Will the Ta´naiste press legislation, as suggested by the Minister for Arts, it as a priority? Sport and Tourism, to allow children to accompany their parents into licensed premises The Ta´naiste: Yes. after p.m., particularly during the holiday season when food is being served? Is the Minister for Mr. Allen: Why is the report of the investi- Justice, Equality and Law Reform still saying gation into the hoarding of building land in the there will be no change? Dublin area being suppressed? It has been avail- able to the Government since last December. The Ta´naiste: The Minister for Justice, Why has the Opposition not received copies of Equality and Law Reform is keen to know if the report? Deputy Higgins is available to go after that cat. He will give the Deputy every possible assistance. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should sub- There are no plans to change the legislation. mit a parliamentary question to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Mr. J. Higgins: The cat is described as black Government. and white——

Mr. Allen: We have been asking him but we The Ta´naiste: The Deputy is good at wander- cannot get answers. Why is the report being ing around the country. This would be some- suppressed? thing useful.

Mr. Cullen: It is not being suppressed. An Ceann Comhairle: Order. We cannot keep the Order of Business going until 7 p.m. Deputy The Ta´naiste: The report is with the NESC. Joe Higgins should resume his seat in fairness to his colleagues on his side of the House who wish Mr. Allen: Why has it not been placed in the to ask appropriate questions on the Order of Oireachtas Library? It was promised in Business. December. Mr. Cowen: A new definition of a wildcat Mr. S. Ryan: Why will Government not strike. implement the main thrust of the Harbours Act 1996 by facilitating the sale of Balbriggan and Mr. Stanton: Under the Health Insurance Skerries harbours, which will take place today? (Amendment) Act 2001 regulations are to be Will the Ta´naiste intervene to ensure that the brought forward to enable those over 65 to gain harbours will not be put into private ownership? cover. When will those regulations be An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on introduced? the Order of Business. The Ta´naiste: I will ask the Minister for Health The Ta´naiste: The Deputy may not be aware and Children to communicate with the Deputy. I of it but the order was signed this afternoon. do not have that information.

Mr. S. Ryan: I am delighted the representations Mr. Sherlock: The enforcement of fines Bill we made were taken on board. was meant to end imprisonment, where practi- cable, for the inability to pay fines, but the num- Mr. Rabbitte: On the ball. ber of people being imprisoned for their inability to pay fines is increasing all the time. Also, has Mr. J. Higgins: I have a question on legislation any progress been made with the ground rent involving the Minister for Justice, Equality and Bill? Law Reform, who is in the House. I thought he might be towing one of his cages from Shannon The Ta´naiste: The enforcement of fines Bill to Monaghan to bell that big cat. issue should be addressed later this year. I apolo- gise that the answer has been the same on the An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should ask ground rent Bill for many years. The Minister for a question appropriate to the Order of Business. Justice, Equality and Law Reform is reflecting on the matter. Mr. J. Higgins: At least that would be some value to the taxpayer. He got no use out of them Mr. Boyle: The Government promised three in Shannon. legislative measures to improve services for those with disabilities, but we have been informed that An Ceann Comhairle: If the Deputy does not the disability Bill will not be produced for the come to the Order of Business, we will move on. fourth promised Da´il session. The Education for 311 Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill 1999: 29 June 2004. Referral to Select Committee 312

[Mr. Boyle.] — the General Regulations of the Universal People with Special Educational Needs Bill has Postal Union; ´ finally been enacted, but can the Tanaiste indi- — the Universal Postal Convention and the cate when the third Bill, the Comhairle Final Protocol thereto; and (amendment) Bill, is likely to see the light of the day? Also, will we have to wait through a fifth — the Postal Payment Services Agreement; and sixth session before seeing the main dis- copies of which have been laid before Da´il ability Bill? E´ ireann on 26th day of May 2004. The Ta´naiste: Both the disability Bill and the Comhairle (amendment) Bill are almost finalised Question put and agreed to. and they will be published together. International Agreement: Referral to Select Mr. Hayes: Does the Government propose to Committee. bring forward a supplementary Estimate to open Minister of State at the Department of the the many hospital units lying idle? I refer specifi- Taoiseach (Ms Hanafin): I move: cally to Clonmel—— That the proposal that Da´il E´ ireann, pursu- An Ceann Comhairle: A question must be ant to Article 29.5.2° of Bunreacht na asked on promised legislation. I call Deputy hE´ ireann, approves the terms of the agreement Durkan. between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Mr. Hayes: ——where \25 million has been Ireland and the Government of Ireland relating spent but \2 million is all that is needed. to the transmission of natural gas by a second pipeline between the United Kingdom of Great An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Hayes should Britain and Northern Ireland and Ireland and table a question for the Minister for Health and through a connection to the Isle of Man Children. between Ireland, of the first part and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and North- Mr. Durkan: A commitment was given in An ern Ireland, of the other part, the text of which ´ Agreed Programme for Government to introduce was laid before Da´il Eireann on 23 June 2004, legislation to allow the Director of Public Pros- be referred to the Select Committee on ecutions to appeal against unduly lenient sen- Communications, Marine and Natural tences. It might be a good time now that the Resources in accordance with paragraph (1) of Government is in mid-term to review the situa- the Orders of Reference of that committee tion to ascertain how strong that promise was. which, not later than 7 July 2004, shall send a message to the Da´il in the manner prescribed The Ta´naiste: The Law Reform Commission in Standing Order 85, and Standing Order has examined that matter and I understand it sup- 84(2) shall accordingly apply. ports the idea of the DPP being given that power. I am sure the Minister for Justice, Equality and Question put and agreed to. Law Reform will bring forward legislation to implement that proposal. An Ceann Comhairle: Regarding No. 15, the Minister of State will return to the House with Mr. P. Breen: Ireland’s speed limits are to be a proposal. changed to the metric system at the end of October and the Road Traffic Bill was to be dealt Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill 1999: with in this session. When does the Ta´naiste Referral to Select Committee. expect this Bill to be brought before the House because people will have to be told how Minister of State at the Department of the important this is? Taoiseach (Ms Hanafin): I move: That, notwithstanding anything in Standing The Ta´naiste: It will be in the autumn. Orders, (1) That the Order of the Da´il of 18 June Universal Postal Union: Motion. 2002, to the extent that it orders that the Pro- Minister of State at the Department of the ceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill 1999 be Taoiseach (Ms Hanafin): I move: considered in committee of the whole Da´il, be discharged and that the Bill be referred That Da´il E´ ireann approves the terms of to the Select Committee on Justice, Equality, Certain Acts of the 1999 Congress of the Uni- Defence and Women’s Rights, pursuant to versal Postal Union, signed at Beijing on 15 Standing Order 120(1) and paragraph September 1999, namely: (1)(a)(i) of the committee’s Orders of Reference, — the Sixth Additional Protocol to the Con- stitution of the Universal Postal Union; and 313 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 314

(2) That it be an instruction to the Select designed roads and will facilitate speculators who Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence will have even less inclination in the future to and Women’s Rights that it has power to negotiate or try to resolve major issues with make provision in the Proceeds of Crime environmentalists or archaeologists. This amend- (Amendment) Bill 1999 in relation to the ment, if accepted, would shift the balance back amendment of the Criminal Assets Bureau from the speculators on to the side of people who Act 1996, the Criminal Justice Act 1994 and really care about our heritage and national the Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) monuments. Act 2001. Will the Minister explain why he will not accept an amendment which is at the core of the responsibility of any Minister who has the envir- Question put and agreed to. onment and the heritage of this country at heart? Why will the Minister not accept such an amend- National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004: ment if there is no hidden agenda? Report Stage. Mr. Morgan: I move amendment No. 1: Mr. Cullen: The reason is the standard is much lower than that which we have. Our standards are In page 3, between lines 11 and 12, to insert much higher than in the amendment. the following: “2.—Nothing in this Act shall cause the Mr. Morgan: The Minister tried that on Com- State to derogate from its responsibility to mittee Stage and last week, but it is not working. preserve, protect and maintain to the highest We know what is going on. The cat is out of the possible standards the heritage of the State bag and we know what the Minister is at. including its national monuments.”. Mr. Cullen: The cat is in Monaghan wander- This is a straightforward amendment. How could ing around. any Minister refuse to accept it? It is at the core of the responsibility of any Minister for the Envir- Mr. Morgan: Unfortunately, there are no wild onment, Heritage and Local Government in that cats on the Government side because even in the it seeks to preserve, protect and maintain to the case of the State Airports Bill, Government highest possible standards the heritage of the Deputies are trotting along meekly behind the State, including its national monuments. What Minister. There is no sign of dissent, which is could be more important for any Minister respon- most unfortunate, particularly from Deputies sible for heritage than to protect, preserve and from the constituencies concerned. The same maintain our national monuments to the highest applies in the case of this Bill and it is most unfor- possible standard? Does the Bill seek to do that? tunate. Why will the Minister not accept this Unfortunately it does not. On the contrary, it amendment? seeks to give sweeping powers to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- Mr. Gilmore: Deputy Morgan’s amendment ment, even a wayward one such as the incumbent. states that nothing in this Act shall cause the It gives the Minister the authority to tear down State to derogate from its responsibility to pre- our national monuments if he so wishes. serve, protect and maintain to the highest poss- To its shame, the Government does not value ible standards the heritage of the State, including our heritage or history. It has proven already that its national monuments. The Bill presented by it will always side with the developers and not the Minister does everything to derogate from the with the conservationists. This Bill has more to State’s responsibility to preserve and protect our do with lobbying by the National Roads Auth- national monuments and this country’s heritage. ority than with trying to preserve our national It will give the Minister the power to order the heritage and monuments. The current Minister is destruction, sale and export of national monu- the man who abolished Du´ chas, the one organis- ments. It gives him sole discretion to do anything ation with responsibility for preserving these he likes to national monuments. The only sem- national monuments. If he has abolished that blance of constraint is that he must ask the Direc- organisation, how can we have any faith in his tor of the National Museum of Ireland who has interest in preserving our heritage and monu- no say in the matter and is only given 14 days ments? What we have is a Department, or cer- to reply. tainly a Minister, exploiting the Carrickmines When discussing the time arrangements for this debacle to force through this legislation which Report Stage debate on the Order of Business — will have consequences way beyond Carrickmines I regret only one hour is being given — I was and everything surrounding it. interested to hear the Ta´naiste tell us that this This amendment, if accepted, would at least Bill is necessitated because of the increased costs bring back some semblance of sanity to this legis- associated with road construction and the necess- lation. Will the Minister accept the amendment? ity to complete the M50. I agree with the necess- We know from Committee Stage what his atti- ity to complete the M50. As I said on a number tude has been. It has been claimed with consider- of occasions, if simple legislation was brought in able merit that this Bill will legalise badly specifically to address the completion of the M50, 315 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 316

[Mr. Gilmore.] ments was. When the Irish Farmers’ Association I would have no difficulty with it, notwithstanding encouraged its members to refuse to allow engin- the regret I have about the way in which the eers from local authorities on to their lands for whole Carrickmines issue was handled. However, the purposes of doing the tests and so on required it is interesting that the issue of the costs associ- in advance of route selection, as it was entitled to ated with motorway construction was raised by do, no emergency legislation was brought into the the Ta´naiste because the Comptroller and Audi- House to deal with it, nor would I have wished tor General released a report today which makes there were. It was dealt with by way of nego- interesting reading. I have only the summary of tiation. A deal was struck which the Comptroller the findings which was e-mailed to me earlier. and Auditor General has said contributed 14% to The Comptroller and Auditor General tells us the huge increase in the cost of building that the cost of the roads programme has motorways. increased from the estimate in November 1999 of On the other hand, when an issue arises regard- \5.6 billion, when the national development plan ing national monuments and when people who was launched, to \16.4 billion. That is three times are concerned about the protection of our heri- the original estimate. tage raise issues in regard to motorways, there is The Comptroller and Auditor General goes on no negotiation. There was no negotiation at the to identify why the roads programme will cost time of Carrickmines and there is no promise of three times the original estimate. He tells us that negotiation in respect of Tara. The Government 40% of the total escalation in the reported cost brings in legislation and states, “If we must bull- was due to price movements. That, of course, doze them, we will.” That is the way in which does not tell us that there was 40% inflation since heritage is treated. For the Minister and the 1999 because, according to the Comptroller and Ta´naiste to justify the legislation on the grounds Auditor General, one quarter of this was due that it is about cutting costs is nonsense against a underestimation of prices at the beginning of the background where the cost of the roads pro- programme. The further 16% of the increase was gramme has trebled in five years. due to a systematic failure to cost certain Even with that trebling, they still cannot deliver elements of schemes at the planning stage. He it. We were told that the roads programme was also tells us that the programme itself grew due to have been completed by 2006. We are now told to changes in the scope of projects and new works that not only will it not be delivered by the end accounting for approximately 20% of the of 2006, but that 30% of the roads programme increase. Part of the reason for that was that the will not even be delivered by the end of 2008. The Government threw out the road assessment study cost trebles, the programme is not delivered on on which the roads programme had previously time and the Minister justifies knocking down been based and decided to opt for motorway national monuments on the basis that costs are schemes rather than contracts which had pre- increasing. viously been entered into — in some cases, as dual carriageways and in others as road improve- Mr. Cullen: I have not said that. ment schemes. That added 20% to the cost of the entire scheme. Mr. Gilmore: Let us nail the lie. The increase The report goes on to address issues such as in the cost of the roads programme has very little the acquisition of land. Part of the increase was to do with the preservation of national monu- due to an agreement reached in 2001 between the ments or archaeology. I accept that cost issues Department of the Environment, Heritage and arise and that there are unknown aspects because Local Government, the National Roads Auth- sometimes one does not know in advance what ority and the Irish Farmers’ Association govern- will be discovered once excavation begins. I am ing the compulsory acquisition of agricultural referring in particular to what the Ta´naiste said land. That added 14% to the cost of the roads earlier — the idea that all this is to save costs programme. is nonsense.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: This discussion Mr. Cullen: I think that is slightly out of con- does not relate to the terms of the amendment. text. In fairness, I do not think she meant it quite the way the Deputy is interpreting it. Mr. Gilmore: It is related to the amendment because the Minister has stated on a number of Mr. Gilmore: That is particularly so on a day occasions that the reason for this legislation and when the Comptroller and Auditor General has for giving himself the power to knock down produced a report telling us that the roads pro- national monuments is that the Government gramme is now costing three times what we were wants to cut the cost of building motorways. If told it would cost only five years ago. one wants to cut the cost of building motorways, there are many items at which one can look other Mr. McCormack: The initial reason for this Bill than knocking down monuments. was to solve the problem at Carrickmines and It is interesting to contrast the way in which the thus enable the developers to join up both acquisition of land issue was handled with the sections of the M50, which has a gap in the way in which the preservation of national monu- middle. Why was it necessary to include in this 317 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 318

Bill all the other powers the Minister is granting Mr. Cullen: It is certainly not the track record himself and his successors? Can we not separate of the Government. We are spending tens of mil- the desire to clarify the Carrickmines-M50 issue lions of euro per annum that was never spent on and the other road development issues, as this archaeology before. amendment seeks to do? If the Minister could provide an explanation and define this, it might Mr. Gilmore: The Minister resents spending it. solve much of the problem. Deputy Gilmore referred to the cost of roads, Mr. Morgan: The Government will save the which is rising because new roads are being money now because it will bulldoze everything. planned and site investigations are taking place for roads that will never be built. A former Mr. Cullen: There are now more archaeologists Deputy and Minister, Bobby Molloy, who rep- employed by the State than ever before. resented my constituency, promised us that we would have a new N6 from Dublin to Galway by An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy Boyle has 2004, but we have not even bypassed Loughrea the floor. yet. Where is the roads programme going? Why Mr. Boyle: If the Minister was confident about did this legislation not deal solely with solving the how the Government is dealing with heritage M50 hold-up? Why has it been necessary to insert there would be no need to introduce such legis- in the Bill additional ministerial powers to pre- lation, because the heritage would be looked serve sites and national monuments? after and the economic infrastructural needs of the country would be met as well. Mr. Boyle: The word “heritage” is in the Mini- ster’s title but I have yet to see evidence that he Mr. Cullen: Give me one example of where I understands the term. Together with his Govern- gave permission to bulldoze heritage sites. ment colleagues, the Minister exudes a feeling that the past is eaten bread and the future rep- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Minister will resents untold riches. The most offensive aspect have an opportunity to reply. of the Bill is that it represents the Minister’s seething mass of frustration, rather than dealing Mr. Boyle: The Minister is doing this to deni- with the responsibility we all have in the House grate the heritage of the country. He is doing it to to protect the country’s heritage. Because some- make a philosophical case and meet an economic thing is an obstacle it must be circumvented and agenda that is not in the interest of the long-term the targets the Minister has chosen will be dealt heritage needs of the country. with easily by this legislation. In the long term, however, neither the Minister nor his colleagues Mr. Cullen: Time will tell. will be the ones left to pick up the pieces. Unfortunately, not only does the legislation Mr. Boyle: Unfortunately, time is something represent a disastrous philosophy, it also sends we do not have. out an appalling recommendation for others in society, who are not working for State agencies, Mr. Gilmore: The Minister will bulldoze Car- on how they will treat various monuments and rickmines castle. other artefacts of our heritage. In recent weeks, we saw evidence of this whereby a mound in west Mr. Cullen: Will the Deputy stop? It has Kerry was ground down overnight, with no ques- already been mitigated and 95% of what is there tions asked. has been dealt with.

Mr. Cullen: I signed a preservation order Mr. Boyle: I would like to contribute to this immediately for that. debate as well, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Minister Mr. Boyle: It happens because the attitude is should allow Deputy Boyle to continue without that if something is inconvenient it can be got further interruption. rid of. Mr. Boyle: Unfortunately, time will not tell us Mr. Cullen: It is on private property. anything. The powers the Minister is seeking and the power that will be given to all subsequent Mr. Boyle: The message the Minister has sent Ministers will means that much of our heritage out is that heritage is low on the list of priorities. will be damaged or will disappear. That is the message the Government represents. Mr. Cullen: Not under my aegis, I assure the Mr. Cullen: No, it is not. Deputy of that.

Mr. Boyle: It is typical of the “get rich” men- Mr. Boyle: As legislators we are being asked to tality whereby if we want economic success we give powers to a member of the Government. must give the lowest priority to anything that While we know the Minister’s track record and does not have an immediate pay-off. what his thinking is, in future those powers may 319 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 320

[Mr. Boyle.] however, the Government lacks that type of be used by someone else whose track record, honesty. ability and commitment is even worse. I find that frightening. We should not concentrate so much Minister for the Environment, Heritage and power in one person to deal with problems that Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I am glad to should be dealt with in a more general way. have the opportunity to respond to this amend- Unfortunately, the tenet of the legislation is ment. People have suggested I have become frus- exactly in that direction. trated, as has probably been evident during the passage of this Bill. There was a time in the Mr. Cullen: It is not. House when Deputies would at least deal with the legislation. However, that has not been the Mr. Boyle: What makes it more upsetting is case because much of the comment has not been that not only is the Minister making a case about about the Bill. This may be because some the difficulty the Government continues to have Deputies lack experience but I cannot understand concerning Carrickmines, he is also seeking pow- some of the comments made by Deputy Gilmore, ers for himself and his successors in the Depart- even though I admire him because he usually ment to deal with any other Carrickmines-style does his research well and knows his brief. case in the future. It is a sledgehammer approach This legislation has been in place for more than to deal with an area of Government responsibility 70 or 80 years and there was no issue with any of these issues when the rainbow Government was that needs to be handled sensitively. The Govern- in power and the same procedures and principles ment has chosen to do otherwise. It would be were enshrined in legislation. remiss of the Opposition not to say that what the Minister is doing is wrong. The legislation is Mr. Gilmore: Not in respect of national wrong and, if passed, our heritage will be deemed monuments. to be unsafe. As I am a member of the Committee of Public Mr. Cullen: None of this is new. The provisions Accounts, I wish to speak about the special report have been in place for a long time. The very of the Comptroller and Auditor General. issues Deputy Gilmore so eloquently raised about the Minister being allowed to demolish monu- Mr. Cullen: It has nothing to do with Report ments existed in legislation previously. He and his Stage of this Bill. colleagues were quite happy when the rainbow Government was in power, when much positive Mr. Boyle: That report followed an appearance legislation was dealt with by then Minister, by representatives of the National Roads Auth- Deputy Michael D. Higgins. ority before the Committee of Public Accounts approximately 15 months ago. During that meet- Mr. McCormack: What then is the need for this ing, I questioned the director of the NRA, and legislation now? those figures were presented. Under a cloak of cost savings, the Minister is giving powers to a Mr. Cullen: When Fianna Fa´il was in Oppo- State agency that has shown itself to be the most sition at the time, I do not remember raising any profligate in terms of public expenditure. The of the concerns the Opposition is now raising, Minister, in his seething mass of frustration, is even though this legislation was in place at the tackling the wrong targets. It is not the incon- time. venience of archaeological heritage that is hold- It seems that these days, if enough people say ing up infrastructural development, it is the something forcefully enough and long enough, it legion of contractors, back-handers and planning becomes fact. This is particularly the case in shenanigans that have brought us the M50 respect of my own position. My track record does not suggest for one minute that I approve the debacle and other road development problems demolition of monuments throughout the coun- around the country. try. Rather, the opposite is the case. The Bill’s provisions go far beyond what those who were given responsibility by the House have Mr. Boyle: If Du´ chas were in place, the Mini- said is needed for the future. The roads need sur- ster would have to do so. vey of 1999 indicated very few 6 o’clock motorways were needed. Rather, it Mr. Cullen: The Deputy’s suggestion is that referred to bypasses, dual car- these are all new powers. They are not because riageways and three-lane roads on which a third they have been in place for a long time. Deputy lane allows traffic to pass. The Government’s McCormack asked why I was going beyond Car- decision in respect of the national development rickmines, the answer to which question he knows plan is one of the most significant factors in terms well. The courts struck down section 14 of the of the additional cost of road expenditure and the existing legislation. The amended section 14 is long delays. If the Government was prepared to required, not just for Carrickmines but for a take responsibility for how it is using public range of projects in regard to which no one could money in this area, there would be no need even mitigate in terms of archaeology unless we to suggest this type of legislation. Unfortunately, replaced it. We had to re-write the legislation. 321 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 322

It is interesting to remind ourselves why we are Mr. Morgan: Why does the Minister not then here. It is not because the Government wanted it accept the amendment? but because of the courts. One of the Supreme Court judges described the consent process as Mr. Cullen: Deputies should not accuse me of “tortuous” and asked the Oireachtas to get its act doing something I am not doing. I do not mind together and put in place a process which makes debating a point with anyone in the House if I some sense, is straightforward and deals with all am introducing something which has not been in the issues. That is what we are attempting to do law before, but I am not doing so. here in a narrow way. In respect of Deputy Morgan’s amendment, Under section 14, there was no consultative there is nothing in the Bill which would cause any role or involvement with the National Museum of deviation from the current highest standards of Ireland. It had no role and I decided we should protection afforded to our national monuments give it a role under this section. Therefore, it is a and the inclusion of the amendment would be new enhanced power from the point of view of redundant. In any event, the proposed amend- the National Museum of Ireland. ment is more akin to a policy statement. I suggest the Deputy reads the Bill in some detail because Mr. Boyle: It should have a veto. The term its guiding principles as well as many of the agree- “consultation” does not mean anything. ments and codes of practice which exist between the NRA, archaeologists, my Department and the Mr. Morgan: It could just mean one telephone Heritage Council are much higher than proposed call. in the Deputy’s amendment. There is no need for the amendment as it is superfluous to the highest Mr. Cullen: If that were the case, why would I standards already in place. be so heavily engaged with the National Museum The south-eastern motorway is the final part of on the N25 project, for example? I would not the M50 C-ring motorway around Dublin and is bother but rather demolish everything and con- a strategic element of the national road network, crete it over, as Deputy Morgan suggested I providing a safe high-speed link between the M11 would. However, as the Deputy well knows, I am and the other national primary radial routes not taking that approach. around Dublin. While the legal position in respect of Carrickmines has restricted the con- Complex efforts are being made in this regard. tractors’ access to the Carrickmines site, work on A great deal of investigation has been undertaken the motorway either side of the site is progressing by the Heritage Council, the National Museum of well with both sections expected to be open to Ireland and archaeologists from my Department traffic by the end of the year. and the National Roads Authority, and I want As Deputies are aware, the south-eastern them to revert to me with a proposal. They have motorway has been subject to an environmental considered the preliminary investigations and are impact assessment, EIA, process and the Carrick- now writing up all the reports. It will take some mines section has been extensively excavated to time to come to me but that is not my fault. I will the best archaeological standards. The environ- not make a decision until all the facts are in front mental impact statement, EIS, was prepared by of me. I want an agreed process in this regard. Du´ n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council in The archaeologists seem to be discovering lay- accordance with the requirements of sections 50 ers of great importance as I am sure will apply to and 51 of the Roads Act 1993. It was published many other areas in the country. However, where in 1997, approved by the Minister for the Envir- we find archaeology, we need to find a way of onment and Local Government in 1998 following mitigating it to the best possible standards. I have a public inquiry into the scheme and was placed a great personal interest in archaeology and his- in the Oireachtas Library. The EIS contains a full tory of this country and I have no intention of section on the impacts on archaeology and how bulldozing monuments. That is not what Ireland they are to be addressed and also presents infor- requires. As many speakers have stated, people mation on the interactions between the various do not necessarily come to Ireland for our environmental sectors as well as the proposed climate, although it seems to be getting warmer. measures to mitigate the significant environmen- Rather, they come for our people and history. tal effects. In the planning process, which was referred to Mr. Gilmore: The increasing temperatures are earlier, leading up to the preparation of the EIS, the Minister’s fault as well. a number of alternative routes were examined. The options for alternatives for the south-eastern Mr. Cullen: I know I am being blamed for motorway were restricted to the gap between the everything. The Deputy and I seem to have been extensive housing developments on the southern permanently in this House for the past two fringe of Dublin and the Dublin mountains. The weeks. We will be here tonight and for the rest available gap was particularly restricted at Car- of this week. Perhaps that demonstrates the rickmines because of the housing at Brighton, interest we have in our respective roles. Brennanstown and Glenamuck roads to the north All these powers exist. It is well known that I and the housing on steeply rising ground to the am not introducing anything new. south. 323 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 324

[Mr. Cullen.] The excavation work, as I explained on Second The section of the EIS dealing with archae- Stage, was carried out under section 26 exca- ology sets out the results of a series of archaeol- vation licences. However, the effect of the ogical investigations and surveys during the per- Supreme Court ruling was that a consent under iod 1992 to 1997, aimed at informing the road the much less frequently used section 14 was planning and route selection process. It was the appropriate in this case. Having had regard to the first time topographical and geophysical surveys EIA process for the south-eastern motorway and were utilised in the preparation of the archaeol- especially the extensive excavations at Carrick- ogical section of an environmental impact state- mines, I considered it appropriate to recommend ment in Ireland in respect of a road scheme to the House that no further archaeological proposal. licences under the Act are necessary for the com- The main archaeological recommendation was pletion of this road. However, in accordance with to avoid all archaeological sites, including the the provisions of section 8 of the Bill, it is my then known remains of Carrickmines Castle intention to issue directions to Du´ n Laoghaire- which necessitated a special design. Full archaeol- Rathdown County Council to ensure the remain- ogical excavation was recommended for those ing archaeological works are carried out to best areas where avoidance would not be possible. In practice standards. regard to the Carrickmines site, the EIS con- Having given the House the benefit of that cluded: “This significant and extensive complex detail from 1992, how can Members come in here will warrant excavation.” Du´ n Laoghaire-Rath- and question that on that specific site an enor- down County Council arranged for full archaeol- mous amount of human resources and financial ogical excavations to commence in August 2000 resources have been put at the disposal of those at Carrickmines and these have been carried out involved in that area? It has been an extraordi- in accordance with the methodologies approved nary effort of excavation, study and understand- and licensed by my Department following consul- ing of the kind never carried out here before. I tation with the National Museum of Ireland. subscribe to that view but I subscribe equally to As the excavations progressed, the full extent the view that it is of no benefit to anybody to of the work necessary for the complete archaeol- consistently run to the courts and let them decide ogical excavation and resolution of the area and what we as legislators are supposed to decide. It recording, according to my Department’s require- is the courts that have us involved in this debate. ments, gradually became clear. This had impli- cations for the time and cost of the road project, Mr. Morgan: It is the speculators. as acknowledged by Deputy Gilmore. The orig- inal estimate by the consulting archaeologist and Mr. Cullen: It was the courts that described the the licensed site director for the completion of process as tortuous. They asked the legislators to the excavations was ten months. However, in look at the legislation and to put it in a more May 2001 the period was extended by a further streamlined and efficient manner so that we know 12 months. This phase of excavation work at Car- who is supposed to be responsible for what. From rickmines ceased at the end of August 2002 after the beginning it has been suggested that the Mini- a period of more than two years. ster, or any other Minister, is the first port of call Up to 200 archaeologists were involved in the in this process, that he or she simply sits in his or south-eastern motorway at any one time, includ- her office—— ing as many as 130 on the Carrickmines site. The final phase of archaeological resolution of Car- Mr. Morgan: We heard that before. rickmines Castle entailed further archaeological hand excavation and a finds retrieval strategy to Mr. Cullen: —— hears what is being said out- excavate the archaeological deposits of the side and decides to bulldoze it. defensive ditches. Up to 60 archaeologists were employed on this phase of work on the site. The Mr. McCormack: Like electronic voting. excavations were completed in January 2003, by which time all accessible areas to be affected by Mr. Cullen: I assure the House the world is not the motorway scheme had been archaeologically like that; neither is politics, the running of a resolved, either by preservation by record or Government Department, or the Da´il and preservation in situ. Seanad. The fact is there is an extraordinary Further archaeological excavation will be car- range of bottom-up procedures to be gone ried out once limited areas which are not cur- through before such an issue would ever come rently accessible become available, such as on the near a Minister to be dealt with. I have enormous existing Glenamuck Road. All of this excavation confidence in the archaeologists, 38 of whom are work has added considerably to our store of employed by my Department on behalf of the knowledge. I look forward to early publication of people, and who do a remarkable job. They work the excavation reports to add to our understand- with organisations such as the Heritage Council, ing of the history and changing settlement pat- the National Museum of Ireland and the National terns of south County Dublin and the knowledge Roads Authority who also employ archaeologists of medieval and post-medieval frontier castle life to work to the best and the highest possible stan- in the area. dards of mitigation. That should be our approach. 325 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 326

I should say to Deputy Gilmore, and in a sense Mr. Morgan: The Minister can bet on that. he has acknowledged it, that there are not unlimi- That is why he can get away with what he is ted resources to spend lifetimes working on some doing. People are disconnected from the system of these projects. Efficiency and reasonableness because of the shenanigans of politicians. are required on these issues. I have stood on sites. When one goes into a room full of lawyers one Mr. Cullen: During the past ten years, and suc- will get as many opinions on something as one cessive Government have done this, every time wants. Unfortunately, the same to a degree an issue should have been dealt with and applies with archaeologists who have different responsibility taken it was passed on to an inde- perspectives and different approaches. I respect pendent group. It was always left to somebody that. Somehow out of this process, one has to else to make the decision. My view of politics is different. I take the view that I am elected by arrive at a conclusion on how to deal with an the people and fortunate to be appointed by the issue. It is not always what everybody in the Taoiseach of the day to serve in the Government. absolutist sense wants. I want to build consensus and I want to see that happen with the M3, the Mr. Morgan: The Minister will be disap- N25 and all the other major projects. pointed shortly. It was stated in the past few days that I have on my desk a report on the N25 and that I will Mr. Cullen: On those facts I will take those not act on it. That is without foundation and is responsibilities. If I make a decision I will stand absolutely untrue. It has also been suggested that over it. I sincerely hope in years to come those the dig was being hidden in some way from me decisions will be seen to be good decisions. Per- or that it was being hidden from the people of haps in hindsight there will be a few that were Ireland. It was not. The preliminary excavation not great decisions. We are the democratically licences were issued. The people had to go on site elected people of the country — all the others are to find out precisely what was there. They knew unelected — and are charged with taking from some geophysical analysis that there was decisions on their behalf. I will take that responsi- potential for many heritage sites there. It was not bility and have no fear of taking the decisions and until they went on site and began to dig down and whatever goes with them. I am not a Minister find what was there they began to see the extent who passes that responsibility outside the system of it. Over some months they have found out that to ad hoc or independent groups. In keeping with one’s responsibilities on being this is quite an extensive site. Those preliminary ´ excavation licences have run out given that the elected to Da´il Eireann and becoming involved excavation has been completed. The full reports with Government, one must have a view which embraces a wide range of issues. As somebody have to be prepared on the basis of those findings must take a decision at the end of the day, I will by the archaeologists who will decide the best do so for as long as I am fortunate enough to way forward for the full mitigation of the entire serve. I have no problem with that. I believe in project. That is where we are at. having the best possible advice available. This proposal will not come to me for months until all the reports are finished. At that stage I Mr. Morgan: The Minister is certainly not tak- hope all the different actors involved, the ing advice from us. National Museum of Ireland and all the other organisations, will come to a conclusion on the Mr. Cullen: I want people who are far more best way forward. I hope I will be able to say, knowledgeable and credible in the heritage area “That is an excellent way forward and we will do advising me. I will not pretend to the House that that.” In spite of all the innuendo and the contin- I am archaeologist and an expert. While I depend ual attacks that I have some other agenda, I do on the advice of very competent people — start- not have another agenda. However, I have one ing with those within my Department — to help agenda here. I have been a Member for a long me make the relevant decisions, it does not mean time—— I am a rubber stamp once they take a view. I have a right to question their views and decisions, Mr. Morgan: Perhaps too long. probe their approaches and ask if there are alter- natives. I see that as my role. While it is quite Mr. Cullen: I think Deputy Gilmore and I came clear that the experts are correct in 99% of cases, here at the same time. there are times when people concede that a Mini- ster may have a point and that another approach could perhaps be taken. Mr. Gilmore: The Minister was a Member before I was. Mr. Morgan: Can I make a point of order?

Mr. Cullen: I am the longest serving of the An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy will Members present. Irrespective of who is in have an opportunity to contribute as soon as the Government, I take the view that politicians are Minister concludes. not held in the same esteem in which they were held in the past. Perhaps we deserve it. Mr. Gilmore: He will not. 327 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 328

Mr. Morgan: On a point of order, the Minister Mr. Gilmore: I am glad the Minister is looking has now been speaking for 27 minutes and the forward to a change of Government. Government has guillotined Report and Final Stages to one hour. If the Minister intends to take Mr. Cullen: Sinn Fe´in will probably be another still further time, I ask for the allocation of one wagon attached to that Government. hour to be reconsidered as it is not nearly enough and the Minister is using it all. Mr. McCormack: The Minister has great experience of political parties. He is the only per- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: That is not a son here who has been in two. point of order. Mr. Cullen: It will be interesting to see when Mr. Cullen: The four previous speakers took 25 that happens whose agenda will overcome. minutes. I got on my feet at 6.02 p.m. to respond and I am entitled to the same time. Mr. Morgan: It will not be with the Progress- ive Democrats. Mr. Gilmore: The Minister is not. Mr. Cullen: It will be interesting to see where the Greens will come from on the agenda of Fine Mr. Cullen: On what basis? Gael and, to a lesser extent, the Labour Party. Nothing will ever be done. Mr. McCormack: The Minister is making it up as he goes along. Mr. Boyle: Is the Minister leaving politics that soon? Mr. Gilmore: It is bad enough that the Govern- ment has guillotined consideration of the Bill, but Mr. Cullen: We are now spending more than the Minister is not entitled to take almost half \20 million of taxpayers’ money on archaeolog- the time to waffle and engage in an exercise of ical excavation. self justification. Mr. Gilmore: And the Minister begrudges it. Mr. Morgan: It is a filibuster. The Minister is a waffler. The Taoiseach’s suggestion was right. Mr. Cullen: No one should tell me that is not fair. If many taxpayers realised how much money Mr. Cullen: I am making a statement of fact. was being spent, they might take a different view While I am not bothered about self justification, of the world, given the pressures. I will not put up with constant ridicule without defending myself. I am entitled to defend myself Mr. Boyle: The National Roads Authority has and make no apology for doing so. overspent on roads by \10 billion.

Mr. Gilmore: The Minister has a great deal to Mr. Cullen: That does not compare like with defend. like. While we all regret how costs have gone, Deputy Boyle should remember that this Mr. Cullen: While Deputy Gilmore usually Government introduced the minimum wage and brings balance to debate, he has not on this brought unemployment from 18% to 4.5%. occasion. It surprises me that he has failed to acknowledge that, as well he knows, the legis- Mr. Morgan: Does that entitle the Minister to lation on which he is quizzing me and for which rip down national monuments? he is blaming me already exists. All the descrip- tions exist in law. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I remind the House that we are on amendment No. 1. Mr. Gilmore: If the legislation exists, why is the Mr. Cullen: This Government created unheard Minister bringing in a new Bill? of economic expansion and ended emigration.

Mr. Cullen: There was no problem with the Mr. Gilmore: The rainbow Government turned Minister with responsibility for heritage having the economy around. The Government has spent those powers when the rainbow Government was the last seven years mis-spending the money in office. That was obviously a different issue. which resulted.

Mr. Gilmore: The rainbow Government pro- Mr. Cullen: I have never denied that the rain- tected national monuments, but the Minister is bow Government made a contribution in its time knocking them down. to the events of the past ten years.

Mr. Cullen: I look forward to the conflicts Mr. Morgan: The Minister is not interested in which will arise when the Green Party forms part the amendment. He is only interested in waffling. of a Government with, most likely, Fine Gael and the Labour Party. It will probably be long after I Mr. Cullen: I have always been fair on those am finished in politics. points. We might disagree on some of the priori- 329 National Monuments (Amendment) 29 June 2004. Bill 2004: Report Stage 330 ties, but I never said the rainbow Government did Mr. Cullen: I am quite comfortable standing on not contribute. Deputy Gilmore was a Member the platform I am on. I do not consider myself to of the House when we began to experience sig- be in any hole. The story this Government has to nificant growth in the early 1990s. The serious tell is a very positive one. problem we had was that there was no correlation in terms of a decrease in unemployment figures. Mr. McCormack: Keep digging. It took time for that to feed in. That is a useful example. Mr. Cullen: It is about time we told it a bit more strongly. Mr. Gilmore: It took time for the policies of the rainbow Government to kick in. Mr. Durkan: The Minister should tell the people where the \60 million went on electronic Mr. Cullen: That is not the case. voting.

Mr. Gilmore: That is an historic fact. Mr. Cullen: Whatever about Fine Gael, we should take on those on the benches behind Mr. Cullen: Nobody can persuade me that it is Deputy Durkan who are hoodwinking people. not the case that the policies which changed this They pretend this is a game of smoke and mirrors country were introduced in 1987. and a three card trick whereby they can be for and against everything at the same time. Mr. Gilmore: When the rainbow Government took office there were 300,000 unemployed. Mr. Durkan: Fianna Fa´il has been doing it for years. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I remind Mr. Cullen: It is a marvellous economic philos- Deputies that we are on amendment No. 1. ophy, but it will not wash with the people. Deputy Morgan had better come up with something bet- Mr. Cullen: It was the move away from 1987 to ter over the three years before the next general the present which was the basis of it. We have election. picked up and pursued it since then. Mr. Morgan: I am looking forward to it. Mr. Gilmore: You know nothing of recent his- tory, never mind archaeology. Mr. Cullen: I can assure the Deputy that old game—— Mr. Cullen: I do. I have acknowledged that you played a role. I never said you did not. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: On amendment No. 1. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputies should address the Chair. Mr. Cullen: As I have said, amendment No. 1 was tabled by Deputy Morgan of Sinn Fe´in. It Mr. Cullen: We have pursued a consistent seeks to pretend after all I have said that we do economic and political philosophy in this country not have the highest standards of preservation for the past 15 years which has underpinned and protection of monuments and heritage. All dynamic growth. According to recent reports, this the evidence in the public sector from Depart- philosophy is the reason we continue to be able ments to those agencies operating on behalf of to compete for foreign direct investment. It is that Government, including the National Museum and economic and political stability and certainty, the Heritage Council, is that the highest standards along with the low personal and corporate tax are in place. Ireland is a model for many other regime, which constitutes a significant element of countries in terms of dealing with archaeology our ability to maintain investment. and securing heritage. I challenge anyone to point to another country which is doing as much as Mr. McCormack: This has nothing to do with Ireland. We do this in spite of the significant the amendment. development demands on our economy which are equally real. We are finding a balance between Mr. Gilmore: It has nothing to do with archae- necessary economic development and dealing ology either. with our heritage, especially important archaeology. Mr. Boyle: Perhaps the Minister wishes to be This Fianna Fa´il-led Government can be proud considered a national monument himself. of the tradition started and the consciousness raised by the former Taoiseach, Charles An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. Haughey, who, to be fair to him, elevated heri- Please debate amendment No. 1 on Report Stage tage and culture to a level to which it had not of the National Monuments (Amendment) Bill. been elevated before.

Mr. Gilmore: The Minister is digging a hole. Mr. Morgan: The Minister has buried them He should stop. nicely in this Bill. 331 National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 332

Mr. Cullen: The Deputy can take his view, but Mr. Cullen: The Opposition levelled a number that is a statement of fact acknowledged far of accusations and I responded. beyond the House. There is no point in failing to acknowledge it. Mr. Gilmore: In view of that abuse, will the Minister of State propose an extension of the Mr. Morgan: The Minister has now turned the time? situation around. Ms Hanafin: I appreciate the Deputies want Mr. Cullen: Deputy Morgan has been suggest- more time to discuss every Bill before the House. ing in recent weeks that somehow this legacy is Unfortunately, another Bill backs onto this one to be undermined. and it too is on Report and Final Stages. We are under pressure of time coming up to the end of term and, unfortunately, I cannot give more time Mr. Morgan: In that case, the Minister should to this particular Bill. accept the amendment. Question put and agreed to. Mr. Cullen: In fact, it is being strengthened because good people have the wit to put useful legislation together which will mitigate and pro- National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004: tect archaeology to the highest standards. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage.

Mr. Gilmore: The Minister is wasting the time Debate resumed on amendment No. 1: of the House. In page 3, between lines 11 and 12, to insert the following: Mr. Cullen: I am proud to bring such legislation “2.—Nothing in this Act shall cause the State to the House on behalf of the Government. to derogate from its responsibility to preserve, protect and maintain to the highest possible Debate adjourned. standards the heritage of the State including its national monuments.”. Allocation of Time: Motion. —(Deputy Morgan). Minister of State at the Department of the Mr. Morgan: This Minister will not be short of Taoiseach (Ms Hanafin): I move: work because, even if he loses his portfolio in the proposed reshuffle in September, as many of us That, notwithstanding anything in Standing expect he will, he will easily find a position on the Orders or the Order of the Da´il of this day: big screen. Gregory Peck or John Wayne would not get a look in with the Minister’s performance (1) The Da´il shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. today. He stood here with a straight face and as tonight and the business shall be interrupted much as told us that black was white. on the conclusion of No. 15 and Mr. Durkan: He would not do a John Wayne on the job anyway. (2) The proceedings on No. 15 shall be taken immediately on the conclusion of No. Mr. Morgan: This Minister brought in a Bill to 25, and shall, if not previously concluded, be allow for the destruction of the national monu- brought to a conclusion after 45 minutes and ments and heritage of this country and for half an the following arrangements shall apply: the hour waffled and filibustered his way through one speech of a Minister or Minister of State and amendment to this legislation. of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Mr. Gilmore: He would definitely do more Group, who shall be called upon in that than John Wayne. order, shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time; and a Mini- Mr. Morgan: He could have amended section ster or Minister of State shall be called upon 14 which was all that was needed. However, he to make a reply which shall not exceed five chose not to and brought in a Trojan horse as a minutes. result of which the resurfacing of a boreen could cause a national monument to be bulldozed out of the way. The Minister knows well that is the Mr. Gilmore: Since the Minister of State is pro- effect this Bill will have. His bluffing and codding posing a change in the Order of Business for the do not work. The only reason the Minister can do House, will she propose an extension of the time as he does is because the people are disconnected available to debate the National Monuments Bill, from the political system as a result of the dec- particularly in view of the disgraceful abuse of the ades of misrepresentation and corruption that time of the House by the Minister, who spoke for have gone on among people such as the Minister. half an hour in a debate which is scheduled for one hour? His contribution was an exercise in fili- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and bustering and an attempt to talk out the time Local Government (Mr. Cullen): The Deputy is available in case any of us would say anything he right. We allowed Sinn Fe´in to fill that gap but did not want to hear. we will take that job back from it. 333 National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 334

Mr. Morgan: Otherwise the Minister would not I would also like to draw attention to a second have got away with what he or other Ministers amendment in the Minister’s name, amendment are doing. I have been a Member of the House No. 35, which purports to amend the new pro- long enough to work out whether the Minister is cedures applying when a road scheme is referred running with this on his own account or whether back to An Bord Pleana´la. Under amendment he is merely a front man for his former Progress- No. 35, which is also new, An Bord Pleana´la will ive Democrats colleagues. Either way, it does not now be required to confine itself to considering matter. The fact is that the Minister has brought this scandalous legislation to the House. Our the directions of the Minister and the proposed heritage does not belong to us. We are only mind- change to the approved road development. Here ing it to pass it on. again on Report Stage we have a new amendment which changes the content of the Bill on the Mini- Mr. Cullen: Whatever I might be accused of, it ster’s direction. That particular amendment was is not that I am sentimentally and seriously not submitted on Committee Stage and should wrong. not be permitted to pass on Report Stage without being recommitted. Mr. Morgan: Our responsibility is to mind our heritage and pass it on. However, that is not what Mr. McCormack: We might as well abandon the Minister has done. Through this legislation he any attempt to address any of the amendments to is ensuring that whoever comes along will the this Bill in the two remaining minutes of debate. largest machine can bulldoze away our heritage. The farce of what has taken place here for the It is unfortunate that we have not managed to past hour is unbelievable. It is incredible that the complete debate on even one amendment in the Minister would talk about his ability to listen to measly hour allocated to us for debate on this people and not bulldoze them into action. His Stage, one half hour of which was taken up by the Minister’s filibustering. We should move track record has left a doubt in everybody’s mind, some regulations to control wayward Ministers to including the minds of Opposition members, ensure Opposition Deputies get some oppor- about his intentions in this case. His actions on tunity to contribute positively to debates. electronic voting, a motion on which will be dis- cussed later, prove he will not listen to or take An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy has advice from anybody. What has happened during exceeded his two minutes. He should conclude. the past hour brings this House into disrepute. We would be better off—— Mr. Morgan: It does not seem to matter any- how, because the Government side does not Mr. Cullen: Every Member opposite made a listen to us. Second Stage speech.

Mr. Gilmore: The Minister made a long speech Mr. McCormack: ——if we had our tea, aban- of justification with regard to the south-eastern doned the debate and let the Minister carry on motorway and Carrickmines. I note he has pro- in whatever way he likes. Unfortunately, he was posed amendment No. 39, which we will not successful in his attempt to bury any chance of reach in the time allowed for this debate, which reasonable debate on this amendment. There is proposes that section 51B of the Roads Act of 1993 shall not apply in respect of the south-east- no point in my speaking to it at this stage because ern route. Will the Minister explain in his reply the amendments we tabled will not be reached. what that amendment is about? The Minister has succeeded in frustrating the pur- I wish to point out to the Chair and the House pose of this Report Stage debate. This debate is that this amendment does not arise from Com- a farce. It is a good job—— mittee Stage proceedings. I do not recall getting any notification from the Minister that he would Mr. Cullen: The Deputy spoke for half an hour introduce a Report Stage amendment to section and then he blames me. 8. Certainly, no amendment in these terms to section 8 was considered on Committee Stage. I Mr. McCormack: ——that there is nobody in submit that amendment No. 39 cannot simply be the Visitors’ Gallery or in the press gallery to passed here—— hear us.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We are dealing An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy with amendment No. 1 now. must conclude. Mr. Gilmore: I know this but I am referring Mr. McCormack: What is going on in this to amendment No. 39 which refers to the south- eastern motorway, about which the Minister House—— spoke at great length and without interruption. Amendment No. 39 did not arise from Commit- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We must con- tee Stage and I submit that it must be recom- clude now and I ask the Deputy to resume his mitted to Committee Stage because it does not seat. The 60 minutes allocated for this debate properly arise. has expired. 335 National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 336

Mr. McCormack: The opinions of all the new to put the following question in accordance with councils we have elected will be dismissed. It is an order of the Da´il of this day: “That the amend- a scandal. ments set down by the Minister for the Envir- onment, Heritage and Local Government and not disposed of are hereby made to the Bill, that An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: As the time per- Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is mitted for this debate has expired I am required hereby passed.”

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 65; Nı´l, 48.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Keaveney, Cecilia. Ahern, Michael. Kelleher, Billy. Andrews, Barry. Kelly, Peter. Ardagh, Sea´n. Killeen, Tony. Brady, Johnny. Kirk, Seamus. Brady, Martin. Lenihan, Brian. Browne, John. McCreevy, Charlie. Callanan, Joe. McDaid, James. Callely, Ivor. McDowell, Michael. Carty, John. McGuinness, John. Cassidy, Donie. Martin, Michea´l. Coughlan, Mary. Moloney, John. Cowen, Brian. Moynihan, Michael. Cregan, John. Mulcahy, Michael. Cullen, Martin. Nolan, M. J. Curran, John. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Davern, Noel. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Connor, Charlie. Dempsey, Noel. O’Dea, Willie. Dennehy, John. O’Donovan, Denis. Devins, Jimmy. O’Keeffe, Batt. Ellis, John. O’Malley, Fiona. Finneran, Michael. Parlon, Tom. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Power, Peter. Fleming, Sea´n. Power, Sea´n. Gallagher, Pat The Cope. Sexton, Mae. Glennon, Jim. Smith, Michael. Grealish, Noel. Treacy, Noel. Hanafin, Mary. Wallace, Dan. Harney, Mary. Walsh, Joe. Haughey, Sea´n. Wilkinson, Ollie. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Wright, G. V. Jacob, Joe.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. Morgan, Arthur. Boyle, Dan. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Breen, Pat. Murphy, Gerard. Broughan, Thomas P. Naughten, Denis. Bruton, Richard. Neville, Dan. Burton, Joan. Noonan, Michael. ´ Connaughton, Paul. O Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. ´ Crawford, Seymour. O Snodaigh, Aengus. Crowe, Sea´n. O’Dowd, Fergus. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Keeffe, Jim. O’Shea, Brian. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Sullivan, Jan. Ferris, Martin. Penrose, Willie. Gilmore, Eamon. Quinn, Ruairı´. Gormley, John. Rabbitte, Pat. Gregory, Tony. Ring, Michael. Hayes, Tom. Ryan, Sea´n. Healy, Seamus. Sargent, Trevor. Higgins, Joe. Sherlock, Joe. Howlin, Brendan. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Kenny, Enda. Stanton, David. Lynch, Kathleen. Timmins, Billy. McCormack, Padraic. Upton, Mary. McGinley, Dinny. Wall, Jack. McGrath, Paul.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Durkan and Broughan. 337 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 338

Question declared carried. In page 6, line 14, to delete “any” and substi- tute “a director or any other”. Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: Order for Report Stage. Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The subsection in question Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform here deals with a document in the power of a (Mr. McDowell): I move: “That Report Stage be body corporate or an unincorporated body. It is taken now.” a technical amendment that Deputy Costello felt would improve the Bill. Question put and agreed to. Mr. McDowell: For the purposes of the Act, section 2(2) provides that a document in the Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: Report Stage. power of a body corporate or an unincorporated body of any kind is considered in the absence of Mr. Rabbitte: I move amendment No. 1: evidence to the contrary to be also in the power In page 5, line 26, after “form” to insert “, or possession of any individual who, because of and includes a thing”. his or her functions or position within the body corporate or unincorporated body, as the case may be, can reasonably be expected to have con- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is the amendment trol over the document. agreed to? Deputy Costello’s amendment proposes to delete “any” and substitute “a director or any Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform other”. The term “any individual” encompasses (Mr. McDowell): No. “any director”. Since the phrase applies to both Mr. Howlin: Will the Minister explain why not? bodies corporate and bodies unincorporated it is sufficiently wide as it stands. It would add no Mr. McDowell: If the Deputy can explain why weight to the definition to specifically mention it is being moved, I will explain why I will not directors because other individuals, because of accept it. their functions or position within the body cor- porate, might reasonably be expected to have Mr. J. O’Keeffe: I support Deputy Costello’s control over the document. The definition as it amendment. He must have anticipated that the stands is a broad, generic definition of the kind Bill would not be dealt with before 7 p.m. I would of person expected to be in possession of the rel- not like his amendments not to be considered. evant documents. It would cover a director with control over the documents of the body corpor- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The amendment ate, if it were a body corporate. was moved. Mr. Costello: I thank Deputy Jim O’Keeffe for Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Yes. standing in the breach. The purpose of my amendment is to direct attention to the director Mr. McDowell: I will elaborate on why I am because the director is the person specifically disinclined to accept the amendment. An official responsible with regard to a body corporate. amendment I tabled on Committee Stage intro- Rather than having a general reference to those duced significant flexibility in how the term “doc- responsible, it should be noted that the director ument” is to be interpreted. Deputy Costello’s is responsible in the first instance. amendment, which has been moved by his col- league, introduces new elements that are not rel- Debate adjourned. evant. It is not necessary in view of my previous official amendment, which deleted “means” and substituted “includes”. Under these circum- Private Members’ Business. stances, it is not necessary to accept the Depu- ty’s amendment. ————

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: I recollect the points raised by Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: Motion. Deputy Costello on Committee Stage. He was of the view that the Bill would be improved and Mr. Gilmore: I move: more all-embracing if the amendment he pro- That Da´il E´ ireann: poses is accepted. I recollect that he was not pre- pared to go to the wall on the issue on Committee — deplores the failure of the Government to Stage and, on that basis, it would not be over- provide sufficient funding for the disabled presumptuous to suggest that he would not press person’s grant scheme, administered by this amendment to a vote. the local authorities, which has created huge difficulties for persons with disabilit- Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. ies or mobility problems who need to make physical adjustments to their Mr. Rabbitte: I move amendment No. 2: homes; and 339 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 340

[Mr. Gilmore.] Acting Chairman: Belated though it be, I ask — noting the further difficulties being Deputy Gilmore to proceed. created as a result of inadequate funding for the home improvement scheme for the Mr. Gilmore: In deference to you, I will pro- elderly, administered by the health ceed although the record of the House should boards; show that the motion was agreed. I trust I will be credited with the two or three minutes it has calls on the Government to: taken for the Minister of State to arrive. — provide sufficient funding to allow local For the benefit of the Minister of State I will authorities to clear all outstanding appli- repeat that the constituent to whom I refer is an cations for the disabled person’s grant 11 year old girl who has Down’s syndrome and a scheme; condition of the ear which affects her 7 o’clock balance and makes using a stairs dif- — increase the maximum amount payable \ ficult and dangerous. She lives with under the grant to at least 30,000; and her parents and two brothers in a two-storey — place the grant scheme on a statutory council house in my constituency. basis. On 23 August 2001 her mother applied to Du´ n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council for the I wish to share my time with Deputies Penrose, provision of a downstairs toilet to reduce the Howlin, Upton and Moynihan-Cronin. number of times Louise would have to climb the stairs. On 28 August 2001, the council wrote to An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? the occupational therapy section of the East Agreed. Coast Area Health Board for a report and recom- mendation. Over a year later, on 10 September Mr. Gilmore: Louise is 11 years old, she has 2002, the occupational therapist carried out the Down’s syndrome and suffers from a condition of inspection. The health board states that its occu- the ear which affects her balance and which pational therapy section is understaffed. makes using stairs difficult and dangerous. Louise The occupational therapist’s report, dated 18 lives with her parents and two brothers in a two- September 2002, did not arrive in the county storey council house in my constituency. council until 28 January 2003 because it was initially sent in error to the Department of the Mr. Howlin: I raise a point of order. No mem- Environment, Heritage and Local Government, ber of the Government is present. which did not forward it to the council until the error was discovered following inquiries by Acting Chairman (Deputy Sherlock): There is Louise’s mother. nothing I can do about that. The occupational therapy report, dated 18 Sep- tember 2002, states: Mr. Howlin: I do not think the House can prop- erly sit if no Member from the Government side Louise is a nine year old girl with Down’s is present. syndrome. She has also had a mastoidectomy that has affected her balance, increasing the Mr. Gilmore: I move that the motion be likelihood of her falling. The hearing in agreed. Louise’s other ear is poor and may deteriorate. Going on to describe the house, the report states: Deputies: Agreed. . . .at the end of the stairs, there is a fanned Mr. Gilmore: The motion is agreed. turn with three steps. Enclosing the steps there is a wall. The wall poses a definite risk to Lou- Acting Chairman: Fan go fo´ ill. ise, as the area of most risk of falling is on the stairs. A downstairs toilet would be of benefit Mr. Gilmore: The motion has been agreed. to Louise in facilitating toilet training and reducing the need for using the stairs during Mr. Rabbitte: Will you put the motion, Sir? the day. In the long term a bedroom at ground floor level would be beneficial. Mr. Penrose: The motion should be put. The report goes on to recommend works to straighten the stairs and that the provision of the Deputies: The motion is agreed. downstairs toilet is a high priority. Almost two years after that report was written, Mr. Rabbitte: What are you declaring, Sir? no work has been carried out. the council’s archi- tect has yet to visit the dwelling. Yesterday, I Acting Chairman: I do not think I have auth- Inquired again about this case and I was told the ority to declare a motion agreed. There is now a architect would probably call within the next representative of the Government in the House. month to see if it needed to be referred to a con- sultant architect, but God only knows when Lou- Mr. Penrose: However belated. ise will get the downstairs toilet which the occu- 341 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 342 pational therapist described as a high priority two the following three elements: a satisfactory adap- years ago and which is needed to reduce the “def- tation scheme, provision for special housing as inite risk” that using the stairs poses to Louise. part of the building programme and provision of The Minister may respond to this case that the housing with support services where the demand delays were with the health board and the local exists. The Disabilities Federation of Ireland has authority. Both the health board and Du´ n reiterated its call for these three components as Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council have part of a national accommodation and support serious questions to answer about their handling strategy for people with disabilities. of this application. However, Louise’s case is not The disabled person’s grant has come under an isolated one. Current applicants for the dis- assault due to the financial strain faced by some abled person’s grant in my constituency are now local authorities, particularly over the past three being told by the council that their applications years. Changes to the scheme, including the intro- will not even be processed until the backlog from duction of means testing and the reduction of 2002 is cleared. This means that people who have individual amounts payable, have led to increased had accidents, strokes or heart attacks or who suf- vulnerability for people with disabilities, often at fer from some disability will have to wait between crisis points, including over-long stays in hospitals two and three years at least for necessary adap- and inadequate standards of housing. tations to be carried out to their dwellings. It is a The Irish housing stock is largely inaccessible condition of the scheme that work cannot com- to people with mobility impairment. The disabled mence until the grant has been approved so the person’s grant was introduced to part fund hous- delay in processing and approving grant appli- ing adaptation as required by people with cations necessarily results in the work being mobility impairment. However, people with dis- delayed. abilities are still trapped in inaccessible, unsuit- People who are unable to climb stairs have to able and potentially dangerous homes due to the wait years for the provision of a downstairs bed- failure of the disabled person’s grant scheme. room or toilet and are often confined to using the Today’s crisis in the disabled person’s grant has living room as a makeshift bedroom and to the been well flagged to the Government. Over the indignity of using a commode in some part of the past two years especially, my Labour colleagues living space of the house. Elderly or infirm people and I have been raising the issue by way of Da´il who can no longer get into a standard bath have questions. The response we have received from to wait years for the bath to be replaced with a the Minister of State with responsibility for hous- step-in shower. All over the country, thousands ing has been the same, the Government has of people with varying types of disability are in increased the maximum allowable, the local auth- these circumstances. orities should make up the balance from their At the end of 2003, the Irish Wheelchair resources and the scheme is under review. Association released the results of a survey it con- That official reply, which may be repeated ducted throughout the local authorities. Most again this evening, misses a number of points. councils reported that their money had been used Demand for disabled person’s adaptations have up for 2002 and were considering introducing increased, the cost of building has increased and varying stages of prioritisation, some relating to the waiting period has got so long that it makes a the disability and some relating to a means test. mockery of the application process. For example, While the response varied from one council to applicants must submit an estimate of the cost of another, one thing was consistent, all over the the works when making the initial application. country the disabled person’s grant scheme has What builder will hold himself to a three year old run into serious trouble. estimate if it takes that long for a local authority According to the Disabilities Federation of to approve a grant? Ireland, the recent census estimated that 8.3% of Major changes need to be made to the disabled the population identify themselves as having a person’s grant scheme. The scheme should be put disability. More than 120,000 people with dis- on a statutory basis so persons with a disability abilities are dependent on social welfare pay- will be able to get their house adapted as of right. ments that are insufficient to either get or service Putting the disabled person’s grant on a statutory a mortgage. The disabled person’s housing grant basis would also eliminate the inconsistencies that scheme, DPG, has for more than 30 years played apply from one local authority to another. a crucial and central role in supporting thousands The maximum grant should also be increased of people with disabilities to return to or remain from the current level of \20,320 to \30,000 and living in their homes. In this way people have indexed to the cost of building thereafter and, in continued living active lives and contributing to line with the recommendations of the Com- their communities. It continues to allow people mission on the Status of People with Disabilities, all over the country to participate fully as equal the Government should increase the disabled citizens in the communities in which they live. person’s grant to cover 100% of the cost of However, the scheme has never fully addressed approved building work. At present only two the needs of people with disabilities. thirds is paid by the Department of the Envir- As far back as 1980 the National Economic and onment, Heritage and Local Government and the Social Council stated that an effective housing balance must be found from local authorities’ policy for people with disabilities must involve own resources. As a result, access to the disabled 343 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 344

[Mr. Gilmore.] assisted in improving their homes under the person’s grant varies from one local authority to scheme and have been able to participate fully in another, depending on that council’s rate base or their communities as equal citizens as a result. income from other sources. Access to the dis- The grant has also played an important role in abled person’s grant should be based on need, not relieving pressure on hospital beds. on an accident of residence. Now, however, many people stay longer in The Government should now make the neces- hospital as they wait for a disabled person’s grant sary funds available to clear the backlog of dis- to which they are entitled, but which has been put abled person’s grant applications. I include in this on the long finger because of a lack of finances. applications for disabled person’s alterations to The continuing financial strain placed on local council-owned dwellings and applications for the authorities which manage the scheme, results in home improvements scheme for the elderly. many people losing out. This is a national scandal I ask the Minister not to tell us that the funds that must be addressed immediately to help are not available. The \60 million he squandered people with disabilities to make the necessary on the failed experiment with electronic voting physical adjustments to their homes. would provide every waiting applicant with a In Westmeath County Council, an efficient downstairs toilet, a bedroom extension or a walk- local authority, where people are making strenu- in shower. Tax revenues for the first four months ous efforts to stretch limited resources, as of Nov- of this year were \500 million ahead of target. ember 2003, \3.5 million was required, without This is now a question of priorities. taking a single extra application after that date. When this was a relatively poor country, people The 2004 budget for disabled person’s grants with disabilities could apply to their local auth- amounts to \1.05 million, with \650,000 already ority for a grant to adapt their house. The grant committed to grants approved in 2003. Funding would be approved and the works would be com- of grant applications currently in hand is being pleted within the same year. Now, with the considered in the context of the 2004 and esti- Government’s finances bulging, people with dis- mated 2005 budgets. This is disastrous for those abilities who urgently need a home adaptation on the lists. are being told by the Government that there is They are further segregated according to not enough money, are being told by their local priority. Priority 1 cases receive approval while authority that it does not have the architects to priority 2 and priority 3 cases are put back and inspect the dwelling and are being told by the will not be heard of again. People who need these health board that it does not have the occu- essential facilities are not being catered for and pational therapists to assess their need. Could are dying. It is a scandal that this can happen there be more damning evidence of this Govern- while the Minister wastes money on electronic ment’s mismanagement that in economically- voting and Punchestown. This is the dividing line abundant times, its message is that the disabled between right-wing and left-wing ideology. must wait? Everything else can be catered for but we must I ask the House to accept this motion. I look after people first. That is the fundamental especially ask Fianna Fa´il Deputies, who report- compassionate view of an economy — it should edly came back from the recent local and Euro- serve the people, not something else. pean election campaign with the needs of dis- Disabled person’s grants appear to be issued abled person’s grant applicants ringing in their on a first come, first served basis. According to ears, to support this motion. I say to them to research carried out by the Irish Wheelchair recall now the homes they called to in May and Association, a significant proportion of local June, to remember the plight of the people with authorities had long since used up their grant disabilities and their distraught parents and famil- allocation for the year by November. Those ies, to remember their promises to them that they people who apply after a particular time of year would do their best for them and not to let them have no hope of receiving grant approval that down when this motion is voted on tomorrow year. night. I ask them to support this Labour Party This grant has been in existence for more than motion so that before this House goes into recess 30 years but the basic fundamental requirements for the summer, people with disabilities can be for the operation of the scheme have not changed assured that their needs will be treated as a and, while any increase is to be welcomed, it will priority. be of little use. Where would a person get a room and a bathroom added to a house for \20,000? Mr. Penrose: This is an important motion and We must deal with reality, it would cost around will establish who in the House supports rights- \50,000. based legislation and who supports the idea that The scheme is still funded at the discretion of matters like this should be left to the discretion the local authorities and the money often runs out of local authorities or Departments. before the end of the year, resulting in a major For the last 35 years, the disabled person’s shortfall in the implementation of this scheme for grant has played a crucial role in helping the the rest of that year. Local authorities have to many people with disabilities or mobility prob- make the scheme fit the demand that exists but lems to remain living as independently as possible they implement different criteria. It is important, in their own homes. Almost 18,000 have been therefore, that the scheme is on a statutory foot- 345 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 346 ing. Its administration must be equal across every authorities are finding that, with the current local authority. People could argue that they face demand, they run out of money early in the year discrimination because if a local authority is cash and are simply unable to meet the demand for rich and can administer the scheme, people within grants, even in the most extreme of cases. It is that area will get a higher priority than people clear more funds must be made available to local in a different local authority area. The Minister authorities to enable them to ensure that all should seek the advice of the Attorney General applications are funded. There is no consistency on this issue. in the administration of the scheme. Behind these Let us take the example of someone who has applications are people who have suffered due to been in an accident and is left in a wheelchair. It the failure of the disabled person’s grant. Their makes sense that all the provisions that person cases are not once-off and their experiences are needs to live as full and independent a life as repeated throughout the country. The Minister possible are in place by the time he or she is dis- must take the opportunity to review and com- charged from hospital. It is absolutely essential pletely overhaul, standardise and most important, that proper planning is in place before someone improve the scheme. Up to now the Government comes home from hospital but this is simply not has failed to provide sufficient funding for people the case. In 2001, a 72 year old person was dis- with disabilities. The recent increases in funding charged from hospital after having his leg ampu- for local authorities do not go far enough. The tated. As soon as he became wheelchair bound, Labour Party believes it is vital that the level of the occupational therapy department in Beau- grants for home adaptation for people with dis- mont Hospital applied on his behalf for the grant abilities is raised significantly. The service must to build a bathroom with an accessible shower but become rights based and not one constrained by he was left for months. While the situation may the local authority cash constraints and limits. have been sorted out since then, there are many other people like him who are still waiting in Dr. Upton: I welcome the opportunity to speak similar conditions for grant approval. on this motion on behalf of those people who are There was a case outlined in The Irish Times very often least able to fend for themselves and of a person who spent four years on a hospital often left longest waiting. The waiting lists in my bed in his parents’ front room. He was left suffer- area seem to go on forever and the queues seem ing from brain damage after being in a car acci- to extend indefinitely. It is not good enough that dent when he was 29. Speaking in April to The disabled people are kept waiting for long periods Irish Times, he said: “It was very embarrassing of time to be provided with what are often very sleeping in my parents’ front room for four years basic needs that would allow them to live with in a hospital bed. They never complained but it what would be considered a minimum of comfort, was annoying me that any visitors to the house independence and security. It is totally had to walk through my bedroom first.” unacceptable that disabled people are kept wait- Although he was not able to secure a bank loan ing not just for months but in many cases for to make up the remaining moneys to carry out years. They are told, “I am sorry, we do not have the work, with the help of the Irish Wheelchair anybody to visit you for at least 15 months to Association, his parents and the credit union, he two years.” raised the difference. People with disabilities are not able to wait for The Irish Wheelchair Association estimates months, let alone years, to know if their bath- that it costs \50,000 for a downstairs bedroom room will be approved or if their bedroom exten- and toilet but the current scheme awards a sion will be given to them. Frequently people say, maximum of \20,320 to adapt a room in an exist- “Why did I bother? It is just not worth it.” There ing house or \12,700 for a new house. At the very is hassle involved in the form filling, waiting for least, the scheme must offer recipients the more the application to be approved and so on. They realistic figure of \30,000. Anything less is merely become disillusioned. They say, “I will be dead paying lip-service to this very important scheme. by the time this grant is approved; why did I Recipients already have to provide at least 10% bother?” There is a follow-on disruption to their of the cost of the works and for many this means house which may be caused by any modifications attempting to secure a bank loan or having to that may arise. They want to have the house beg, borrow and turn to family members and adapted so they can live in comfort but they fre- friends to raise the money. quently find it is simply not worth the trouble. We must also acknowledge the importance of As my colleagues have stated, the amount of being independent. The smallest modifications to the grant is not adequate to meet the require- a home can mean all the difference between ments of even a modest modification or adap- someone with a disability or mobility problem tation. The mere \20,000 which is now approved remaining self-sufficient and independent or will frequently go nowhere near meeting the real being confined to a nursing home or residential cost. People often must borrow the money from care. It is clear there is a compelling case for the the credit union or beg the money from their fam- grant levels to be raised. ily. These are people who are at risk in any case It is a major problem that there is no statutory and it puts further stress and strain on them. entitlement to the grant and that its payment is People make a reasonable assumption that the at the discretion of the local authority. Many local grant will be available to them within what they 347 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 348

[Dr. Upton.] asking that professional, fully-qualified occu- would consider to be a reasonable length of time. pational therapists be replaced but there must be They do not have a problem with waiting a cou- some system whereby some accommodation can ple of weeks or months. However, the process be made. drags on. The inevitable bureaucracy of the num- It often happens that two or three months after ber of people to be seen and visited spoils it for the grant has been approved, the person dies. the applicants and makes them bitter towards the This is an indication of the block in the system, whole business. the length of time wasted and the frustration of It is one thing to wait for approval from the those people who are entitled to minimum local authority but I wish to raise another issue requirements for adapting their homes and mak- this evening. The delay in obtaining reports from ing life more comfortable and tolerable. occupational therapists has been mentioned by my colleagues. The waiting time for the occu- Acting Chairman: There are 14 minutes pational therapist is approximately 15 months to remaining. two years. The provision of what I consider to be very basic changes is often delayed for years Mr. Howlin: Deputy Moynihan-Cronin and I before an occupational therapist can give have seven minutes each. I wish I had longer but approval. I have many constituents waiting for an I have seven minutes to address what I regard to occupational therapist’s report before the grant be a basic social justice issue. We spend a lot of can even be considered. Why is there such a delay time in this House, probably rightly, on the and why is no action being taken to ensure the weighty matters of the European Presidency. We supply of occupational therapists can at least go are proud to strut the stage with the best and the some way towards meeting the demand? good in any of the European fora. This issue is a I hear frequently from health board officials defining issue, whether we have the right to call who state, “I am sorry, we do not have the occu- ourselves a civilised and just society. What we are pational therapy posts filled.” Why is there only discussing is affording some of the most vulner- one school of occupational therapy in this country able people in our society the basic means to hold with the numbers attending the course capped? on to their dignity. If we cannot do that in an The queue goes on and on. efficient, caring, reasonable manner, then we An elderly lady in my constituency has been forego the right to strut with the great and the given the run around so many times in her good and pretend that we are a civilised, attempts to obtain approval for such basic needs developed society. as a handrail and a special chair. The hospital Three different schemes touch upon the mat- occupational therapist decided and approved the ters being discussed. They are the disabled per- requirement. Later, however, the whole process, son’s grant, the essential repairs scheme operated for whatever reason, had to be re-enacted with by the local authorities and the housing aid for the occupational therapist from the local health the elderly scheme which is operated through the board. The only problem is that the lady lives in health boards. They are often used to send a fool a third-floor flat and in order to be approved for further. When the money is inadequate for the the chair, she had to go to the occupational thera- local authorities to deal with essential repairs or pist. If she were able to negotiate the stairs in when the disabled person’s grant for the year is the first place, she probably would not want the allocated in its entirety, somebody is sent to occupational therapist to visit. She has been another venue to fill out more forms, to be informed she must wait for up to 15 months for assessed by more people marching through their an assessment. There is some form of arrogance house and hopefully, at the end of the day, they associated with this situation. A disabled person might receive something. More likely than not, must do battle with three flights of stairs in order they simply waste time in the waiting. to be assessed for something that has already I wish to speak about three of the most recent been approved by another professional. Is it not cases from my own county and I could pick many possible for the file to be passed from one group more from my files. All three cases touch on the to another or one person to another? How much basic tenet of dignity, the ability to bathe oneself time and money is spent or wasted on this kind and have access to a toilet. To think that in the of inefficiency? dying days of our Presidency of the European Individual occupational therapists will often do Union, what is being debated in the House is their very best to accommodate people. They will whether we can provide such basic facilities as give as much information as possible. There is a these to the citizens of our State. serious block in the system in terms of the avail- The first case is that of an elderly couple who ability of occupational therapists to make these because of medical conditions such as breath- grants available and to allow approval to go lessness, hypertension and cardiac failure, can no ahead. Why can the shortage of occupational longer use the bath. They applied to the local therapists not be addressed? Has consideration authority for funding to provide a walk-in shower at ground floor level. The senior staff officer of been given to recruitment from abroad? Is it not my local authority responded: possible for some straightforward elements of the occupational therapists’ reports to be addressed While I appreciate that a grant is sought by the use of students on placement? I am not urgently for the adaptations proposed in this 349 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 350

case, I regret to advise that sufficient funding is put in place barriers. We pretend we are giving is not available at present to approve a grant a service when we know the money is not avail- for these works. The application may be able and tell people, as in the three cases I have reviewed if there is a significant health and outlined, that they may as well give up and enter mobility deterioration. In the event that all the a nursing home, rather than end their days in dig- highest priority grant applications are finalised nity because we do not have the wherewithal, during 2004, the Council will consider the case either the resources or the wit, to provide essen- again. tial services for people in need. A government which cannot get this basic element of social pro- The money was used up. This is a letter dated vision right is not entitled to call itself a socially March of this year and this elderly couple have just government. been refused a grant.

Mr. Rabbitte: The Deputy should not shout in Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: I am delighted to case he wakes the Minister. have an opportunity to speak on this issue in which I have a great interest. After the recent Mr. Howlin: The second case relates to a young local elections, we listened to a stream of rep- person in my constituency who suffered serious resentatives of the Fianna Fa´il and Progressive brain damage in an unfortunate accident. The Democrats parties wonder about the reason their health board notified the applicant that no funds parties performed so badly when the economy is were available for modifications to provide a in such a wonderful state and so many jobs are walk-in bath and asked that the person call later being created. Unfortunately, the people about in the year. whom we are speaking tonight are not benefiting The third case relates to an application for from the wonderful economy and are not able to housing aid for the elderly. I will cite the deputy take up the jobs being created. The Government appeals officer’s response to my representations. is concerned with economics and jobs, rather than people. That is the reason the Fianna Fa´il Party As you are aware funding for this scheme is did so badly in the local elections. We all heard allocated by the Department of the Envir- that message on the doorsteps. onment, Heritage and Local Government and I support the motion and pay tribute to the the Board [that is, the health board] must oper- organisations which represent people with dis- ate the scheme within limited funding pro- abilities, particularly NAMI. They deal with this vided. Because of the large number of appli- issue morning, noon and night on behalf of their cations received for assistance under the members, families and friends. The disability scheme a means test may be carried out to organisations support the motion and want the establish an applicant’s ability to contribute grant to be raised to a realistic figure of \30,000. towards the cost of work involved. Having They also want a full review of the scheme to be viewed this application I am in agreement with completed without delay to ensure all the issues the decision of the board. raised in the House tonight are addressed. These cases are examples of the reality on the I will describe a very sad case with which I am ground. When young people who are disabled or dealing. I do not know how anybody living in this elderly people who have served and built the tiger supposedly wonderful economy will be able to economy of which we are so proud, and about live with himself or herself on hearing this story. which we boast, need assistance from the State to It relates to an elderly couple who had to move afford them basic dignity, they are denied it due out of their house because the roof is made from to lack of money. If there are any priorities, asbestos. The lady of the house is suffering from surely expenditure in these areas should take pre- serious health problems and the couple were for- cedence over the billions we can find for other ced to move into a mobile home. The local auth- matters. ority recently sent them a letter notifying them My colleagues have spelt out what is needed in that they must move out of the mobile home by this effort. We must have a rational scheme and the end of August because they do not have plan- co-ordination between the three current schemes. ning permission for it. We have since applied to We must have rights based provision set down in the local authority for a grant to replace the roof law, which is simple, workable and uniform in its and to the health board to replace rotten window application because it is clear that the likelihood frames. If it takes the usual length of time to pro- of receiving a grant depends on the local auth- cess the applications and award the grants, the ority to which one applies. My experience is that couple will be forced to live in a house with an some local authorities make better provision and asbestos roof with which no health and safety are better able to provide than others. This is not official would dare deal. The couple is facing the good enough because people have a right to difficulty that no builder wants to go near the basic services. roof. If the roof is not repaired and the local auth- The Houses of the Oireachtas have an obli- ority removes the mobile home from the site gation to set out the appropriate rights in statute because it does not have planning permission, law and provide ease of access to ensure the who will deal with the couple? I do not want to assessment and applications can be completed live in a society in which two pensioners who can- easily and processed quickly. What we have done not afford to make necessary repairs will be put 351 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 352

[Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin.] \18.6 million in 1999 to \65 million in out of their house on to the side of the road. I do 2004; not care what planning laws we break; people are — increasing the effective maximum grant entitled to their home. available under the disabled person’s The disability Bill the Government promised grant scheme from \10,158 to \20,320 in its programme for Government is still being and the essential repairs grants scheme discussed. The reason it was not produced before from \1,143 in 1999 to \9,523; the local elections was that it will not be rights based. The Government is not fooling anybody, — increasing the maximum disabled per- whether people with disabilities, the organis- son’s grant available in individual cases ations representing them or the Labour Party. from 75% to 90% of the approved cost The Taoiseach stated the legislation will be intro- of the works; duced in the House in the next session. Although — increasing the level of recoupment to I have not been involved in any discussions on local authorities from the Department of the matter, I know it will not be rights based. The the Environment, Heritage and Local Opposition will continue to table motions such Government from 50% to two thirds; as this in the House until we have rights based disability legislation. — retaining the disabled person’s new Last year, Kerry county councillors received a house grant towards the purchase or letter from the local authority regarding capital construction of a new house; allocations for disabled persons and essential — increasing the funding for the special repairs grants. It stated: housing aid for the elderly scheme from \ \ Kerry County Council recently received a 7 million in 1999 to 11.6 million in capital allocation of \1,378,000 from the 2004; and Department of the Environment & Local notes that a review of the disabled person’s Government in respect of payment of Disabled grant scheme is being finalised by the Mini- Persons and Essential Repairs Grants. This is ster for the Environment, Heritage and the first time in recent years that a cap has been Local Government and supports the con- placed on Disabled Persons and Essential tinued actions by the Government to Repairs Grants expenditure by the Department respond to the housing needs of elderly and of the Environment & Local Government. disabled persons through a range of tar- This allocation of \1,378,000 represents a geted initiatives 22% reduction on the provision made in the I wish to share time with Deputy Sea´n Power. Revenue Estimate for Disabled Persons and I am pleased to reply to the motion. The Essential Repairs Grants in 2003. Government is committed to a strong sound and This letter was written by an official, not a poli- appropriate housing programme. An investment tician. I and other members of the local authority of \1.8 billion will be made in 2004 across the in County Kerry raised hell about the matter and full range of programmes, with particular priority shamed the Department into giving us an being given to programmes that assist those in additional few bob. It is an absolute disgrace that most urgent need. The continued increased allo- one must shame a Department and Minister into cations for disabled person’s grants, essential giving money to those most in need. repairs grants and the special housing aid for the I implore the Government to consider people elderly schemes are evidence of this commitment. with disabilities. It heard the message on the I am well aware of the pressures on both the doorsteps and knows people with disabilities are disabled person’s grant and special housing aid out there but will not come on a radio pro- for the elderly schemes. These are only two of a gramme or go to the newspapers. They have their number of housing schemes operated by my dignity and I ask the Government to have the dig- Department and, in that context, it is necessary nity to look after them. to balance the competing claims of the various schemes to ensure the available funds, which are Minister of State at the Department of the limited, are directed to those whose housing need Environment, Heritage and Local Government is greatest. (Mr. Gallagher): I move amendment No. 1: I will first put the disabled person’s grant in context and outline the improvements that have To delete all words after “Da´il E´ ireann” and been made to the terms and funding of the substitute the following: scheme over the past few years. Demand under “acknowledges the achievements of the the scheme has increased significantly in recent Government in significantly improving the years. Regulations governing the scheme provide housing grant assistance available to disabled that a housing authority may pay a grant for the and elderly persons in the past five years by: provision of additional accommodation or the carrying out of works of adaptation that, in the — providing a substantial increase in com- opinion of the authority, are reasonably necessary bined funding for the disabled person’s for the purpose of rendering a house more suit- and essential repair grant schemes from able for the accommodation of a member of the 353 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 354 household who is physically handicapped and the ments to facilitate the reallocation of funds to works are necessary for his or her proper accom- obtain optimum effectiveness from the funding. modation, or who is suffering from severe mental A small number of authorities will seek increased handicap or severe mental illness for which he or funding. The scope for reallocation of funds will she is undergoing treatment and the works are be kept under ongoing examination in my necessary for his or her proper treatment and Department during the rest of the year and all accommodation. The framework for the disabled requests for additional funding will be considered person’s grants scheme is laid down in the statu- in this context. tory regulations. The regulations are intended, as When calling for further increases in funding, far as practicable, to give appropriate flexibility Opposition Members forget that local authorities to local authorities. fund one third of each grant from their own There is no definite list of approved works that resources, normally from their revenue account qualify for grant assistance and it is a matter for in the context of the estimates process. While all the local authorities to decide on the general cri- authorities are free to seek an increased allo- teria they apply. The regulations do not seek to cation, this does not allow them to increase provide a strict definition of “disability” for the expenditure, unless there is a corresponding purposes of the grant and, in recent years, more increase in the their own revenue contribution. and more applications are in respect of age- Local authorities have become much more con- related mobility problems. This trend is likely to scious of the need to proactively manage the dis- continue. Unlike most other schemes of Govern- abled person’s and essential repairs grants ment assistance, no system of prioritisation is laid schemes in the recent past to ensure they remain down in the regulations on medical or income within their allocation and do not put undue grounds. The only stipulation is that the grantee pressure on their own revenue accounts. should occupy the house as his or her place of Many of them have introduced a system of residence on completion of the works. prioritisation on medical grounds and have The regulations are loosely framed to allow adjusted the level of grant available. It is essential authorities to deal with applications in a flexible that local authorities should continue to manage manner, to open the grant to as many applicants the scheme to ensure activity is related to their as possible and to provide a service which the ability to fund their own contribution to the fund- local authorities feel is appropriate in their own ing required while having regard to priorities in areas. This has been one of the strengths of the their area. scheme. It does, however, make it more difficult The special housing aid for the elderly scheme to manage and to ensure the available funding is administered by a task force set up in 1982 is directed to those who need most assistance on under the aegis of the Department to undertake mobility and income grounds. The major increase an emergency programme to improve the housing in demand for assistance under the scheme can conditions of elderly persons living alone in unfit be attributed to the improvements the Govern- or unsanitary accommodation. Various statutory ment has made to it over the past five years. The and voluntary bodies involved in this area are maximum grant has been doubled from \10,158 represented on the task force. The scheme has, to \20,320, the percentage of grant available has since its inception, been administered with flexi- increased from 75% to 90% of the approved cost bility and a minimum of formality in the interests of works and the level of recoupment to local of elderly persons whose housing conditions have authorities has increased from half to two thirds. been improved. However, over the years, health My Department notifies local authorities of a boards have developed a priority list to ensure combined allocation each year to cover the pay- the most urgent cases are dealt with as quickly as ment of disabled person’s and essential repairs possible within the terms of the guidelines. grants. The terms of the grant schemes were not Typically, aid is available for necessary repairs only significantly improved but the funding to to make a dwelling habitable for the lifetime of cater for demand was also increased. In the per- the occupant. The scheme was extended in 2000 iod 1999 to 2003, expenditure on disabled per- to include the provision of suitable heating sys- son’s and essential repairs grant totalled almost tems to meet the needs of elderly persons, where \245 million and covered 33,000 individual necessary. The community care departments of grants. The budget provision for these schemes the health boards operate the scheme, using var- this year is the highest ever at \65 million, an ious mechanisms to carry out work under the increase of \10 million on last year’s provision. scheme. The scheme is extremely effective. More It is a matter for individual local authorities to than 51,000 cases were processed between 1982 decide on the funding to be provided for the dis- and 2003. A further 1,395 jobs were under way abled person’s and essential repairs grants by the end of 2003, the latest date for which fig- schemes in their areas from the combined allo- ures are available. cations notified to them for this purpose by my The Government has significantly increased Department. The available funding of \65 million funding for the scheme from \5 million in 1997 for expenditure in 2004 was notified to local auth- to a record \11.6 million in 2004 in recognition of orities on 20 May last. Local authorities were the valuable work being done. The allocations to advised to notify my Department if their allo- the boards are determined by the task force from cation was inadequate or surplus to their require- the funding available and are based not on the 355 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 356

[Mr. Gallagher.] mentioned that in addition to the essential repairs geographical spread of the population, but on the grants scheme and the scheme of special housing statistical returns received from the health boards aid for the elderly, the DPG is increasingly used showing the level of activity within the area, the by elderly people. This effectively means that this number of applications on hand and the esti- sector is now being catered for by three separate mated cost of these applications. The success of grant schemes. For this reason it is considered the scheme is due, primarily, to active co-oper- that the relationship between the disabled per- ation between the various statutory and voluntary sons and essential repairs grants and the special bodies involved in its operation. scheme of housing aid for the elderly should also Apart from the disabled person’s grant and the be taken into account in the context of the special housing aid for the elderly schemes, the review. The response to increased demand for essential repairs grant scheme, which is also oper- assistance under any grant scheme should not ated by local authorities, provides grant aid for always be that we should “throw more money at elderly persons towards the carrying out of works it”. It is often necessary to stand back and have a which, in the opinion of the local authority, are fresh look at the overall position and that is what reasonably necessary to prolong the useful life of we are doing now. We need to see if the substan- a dwelling. tial amounts of money we are already spending Like the disabled person’s grant scheme, sig- are being used to best advantage, if structures nificant improvements to the terms of the essen- that have been established for the implemen- tial repairs grant scheme since 1999 have also led tation of these schemes are still appropriate and to increased demand for assistance. The if they are being operated in the simplest, most maximum grant is \9,523. Expenditure on the efficient and most cost-effective way possible. scheme increased from \5 million on 966 grants We are conscious that people who apply for in 1999 to \13 million on 2,842 grants in 2003. those grants often do so at a vulnerable stage in Recoupment costs have also increased from \1 their lives and it is essential that the application million on 836 grants in 1999 to more than \11 and approval processes for those who are eligible million on 3,262 grants in 2003. That is more than should be as straightforward as possible. It is a tenfold increase in recoupment. expected that the review will be finalised very A disabled person may qualify for a new house shortly and details of any amendments, if neces- grant of up to \12,700 where a suitably designed sary, will be announced thereafter. or specially adapted new house is being pur- chased or built specifically to meet the needs of a Mr. S. Power: This is a very important subject. disabled member of a household. There can be Members dealing with constituency matters on a no doubt that the improvements made to these daily basis will realise that this is a real issue grant schemes and the significantly increased which affects people throughout the country. funding provided to meet increased demand are Many of those people do not believe they have a clear indications of the Government’s commit- voice to air their serious grievances and they feel ment to meeting the housing needs of disabled very hard done by. and elderly persons. The Government can make the case that it has The Government is very conscious of the need substantially increased the housing grant assist- to ensure that the needs of disabled and elderly ance available to disabled and elderly people in persons are taken into account in all aspects of the past five years and I will instance five areas housing policy. Local authorities have been asked where that is the case. First, the combined fund- to draft five-year action plans covering the full ing for disabled persons and essential repairs range of their housing programmes. These plans, grants schemes was \18.6 million in 1999 and that to be agreed with my Department, will ensure has increased to \65 million this year, a signifi- that a fully strategic approach is taken by local cant increase in anyone’s language. authorities to the needs of all sectors of the com- Second, the effective maximum grant under the munity and will ensure that the requirements of DP grant scheme has increased from \10,158 to disabled and elderly persons are specifically iden- \20,320 over that five-year period, so we have tified and better reflected in the authorities’ hous- seen a doubling of that grant. Third, the essential ing programmes for the period in question. repairs grant has increased from \1,143 in 1999 In addition to the various schemes for the to \9,523 today. Fourth, the increased maximum adaptation of existing dwellings the Government disabled person’s grant available was 75%, but is making significant progress in the provision of that has been increased to 90% of total cost of new dwellings for elderly and disabled persons works and local authorities can now recoup 66% through the capital assistance scheme. The num- of costs, where it was 50% previously. Fifth, the ber of dwellings provided under this scheme for special housing aid for the elderly scheme has elderly persons in 2003 was 382, with grant assist- increased from \7 million in 1999 to \11.6 million ance of almost \44 million, and 255 for persons in 2004. with disabilities, with grant assistance of more On the face of it those figures are quite than \29 million. impressive but the reality is different. I will deal Members will be aware that a review of the with Kildare and its surrounding area, a region I operation of the disabled persons grant scheme am more familiar with than the national stage. is under way in the Department. I have already The figures I have given represent what is hap- 357 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 358 pening throughout the country but I will look at change must take place. A small number of the situation from a Kildare point of view. Last workers have been working extremely well. Last year in Kildare we provided \1.6 million for the year approximately 60 people benefited from the disabled person and essential grants scheme, a work in the Kildare-Wicklow area but, unfortu- hefty 60% increase on 2002. This year, for the nately, there is still a long waiting list. Apart from first time, Kildare County Council has provided dealing with the waiting list, they must deal with funding in its estimates for that scheme — a number of applications which are totally inap- \330,000. That means we will have less than \1 propriate and do not fit in with the minor essen- million for the scheme this year, while last year tial works which are supposed to addressed. we had \1.6 million. We often talk about giving The essential repairs grant scheme is targeted local authorities extra powers but this is obviously at older people living in substandard housing con- a case where the disabled persons and essential ditions. Listening to the contributions of Labour repairs grant scheme is not a priority. Party members, it is obvious that It is estimated that the funding provided this 8 o’clock major changes are necessary in this year will meet one third of the demand but with area, and the Minister of State some shame I have to say that no grants have touched on that. The solution to many problems been paid in Kildare at all in 2004, though we are has been to throw more money at them. almost halfway through the year. Very few grants However, it has been obvious for some time that have been paid out since July last year and we there is duplication in the schemes and that one now have a serious backlog in applications and scheme implemented and operated by one body total frustration among applicants. That is totally would be a far more efficient way to use scarce unacceptable. We are treating the applicants as resources. fools and that cannot be allowed to continue. It appears that some local authorities treat this Kildare County Council has no difficulty in pro- matter with the importance it deserves while viding millions for new civic offices but when it others have been paying lip-service to it, which is comes to looking after the most vulnerable not acceptable. There must be uniformity members of our society, they are obviously not a throughout the country in the way this problem priority. I ask the Minister of State to examine is dealt with. Surely it should be the policy of this situation to see what can be done to rectify every local authority to allow people to live in it. It beggars belief that this policy is being pur- comfort and dignity. That is all people want when sued by Kildare County Council in 2004. they apply. They do not want to live in conditions Most Members are familiar with the minor which those of us here would not tolerate for a essential works carried out by health boards, such night, never mind a lifetime. A country can be as insulating cylinders, installing smoke alarms, judged on the way it looks after its citizens who repairing windows and doors — there was a time cannot look after themselves. It is important the when doors and windows would be replaced, but matter is addressed in a manner deserving of it. that is not done any more — minor roof works, Since my election to this House I have listened dry lining a bedroom wall and providing radi- to many Private Members’ debates. With few ators. Showers may be provided for the elderly exceptions, Private Members’ motions are voted but not for the disabled. down. Opposition motions are debated, some- The big difficulty here is that the health board times belittled and usually voted down. The has only five workers and two foremen engaged Opposition tables a motion, which is generally on the eastern community works and looking critical of Government policy, and the Govern- after the Kildare-west Wicklow area. The diffi- ment tables an amendment to it generally con- culty for the health board is that a no-go area gratulating itself on its performance. Is it any exists as far as working with Kildare County wonder there is such cynicism among the elect- Council on a similar scheme is concerned, so orate given that type of performance in the many people are now applying to the health House regardless of which party is in Govern- board, which can only carry out minor essential ment? With the exception of former Deputy, works. The health board is receiving many inap- Alan Shatter, who had much success on Private propriate applications which should be sent to Members’ business, the majority of Opposition Kildare County Council. Members must find it very frustrating in that they The health board deals with Kildare, Dublin put a great deal of hard work into and undertake and Wicklow, and while the Kildare-Wicklow much research to table Private Members’ motions area represents 13% of the population, in the past but they are very often voted down and dis- year it has enjoyed 52% of the budget. More than carded. It is important that changes quickly. half the money being allocated in that area has been spent in the Kildare-Wicklow area. While I Mr. P. McGrath: Tomorrow night. welcome such expenditure in Kildare, it is obvious the scheme is in need of an overhaul. Mr. S. Power: We should realise the Oppo- That type of spending cannot continue. sition does not get it wrong all the time. Regard- The budget for the three counties for this year less of what motions come before us, there is will be \1.6 million and a 15% top up payment. always a certain amount of good and logic in Where people get the disabled persons grant, the them. Rather than pick holes in motions brought health board will provide a top up. A major before us, we should pick on the good points and 359 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 360

[Mr. S. Power.] and increased grant levels are appropriate and it work and build on them. We would have a more is vital one scheme is in operation for all. effective and efficient democracy if we did that. In private, few Members of the Houses would Mr. McCormack: I wish to share my time with disagree with the motion before us. Any Deputy Deputies Stanton, Paul McGrath and O’Sullivan. or Senator who is in touch with the grassroots in We are speaking about the most vulnerable his or her constituency would be very much aware sector of our community, namely, people who are of the difficulties encountered by people trying to waiting and are being frustrated in their appli- live with some dignity and comfort. That is really cations for the essential repairs grant and for the what tonight’s motion is about. I do not expect housing grant for the disabled. I compliment the Government to vote in favour of the motion Deputy Sean Power on a well-judged contri- but it is important that it takes on board the bution. Sometimes it is not easy to follow him on thrust of the motion and that we put in place sys- Private Members’ time, although I often must do tems to deal with the serious problem in respect so. If the Minister of State had made the contri- of the schemes. bution Deputy Power did, we would probably The Minister of State indicated that one does have a more sensible debate. I do not know what not necessarily have to throw money at a problem way he will vote when the Government amend- or that by throwing money at it one will solve it. ment is put. It reads: I agree with that. Given the cost of building and To delete all words after “Da´il E´ ireann” and repairing houses, it is difficult to get builders to substitute the following: do the small jobs. Fortunately, there is still a number who are prepared to do them. However, “acknowledges the achievements of the prices have increased substantially and it is Government in significantly improving the important that we look at the grants available, housing grant assistance available to disabled particularly in the December budget, and at mak- and elderly persons in the past five years”. ing major changes. Deputy Sea´n Power was certainly not convinced As the Minister of State said, we have made by the amendment tabled by the Government much progress. Certainly from the point of view because that is not the factual position. Services of providing resources, we have targeted money for those seeking the disabled person’s grant have at this problem in a fairly substantial way. not been increased in the past five years. In fact, However, I am not sure we have got value for Deputy Power gave the best opposition speech that money. It is important the scheme is stream- in this debate concerning the situation pertaining lined and that we deal with the problem much from the Government’s point of view. more efficiently and effectively. When people People who apply for the disabled person’s make a genuine application, they should be given grant are being frustrated at every level. When some indication as to when work will be carried they apply they cannot obtain an inspection. In out so that we do not lead them down the garden addition, they have to supply three estimates at path as at present in that many people apply and the time of application, which are not relevant assume the good news is just around the corner. three years later when the application may be Unfortunately, for many, they are dead before dealt with. In most local authorities, including the the good news arrives. It is an area which is in two in Galway, applications are not currently need of a total shake up, although the Minister of being examined because they have not yet State referred to a review. cleared the backlog from 2002. Up to a year ago, It is ridiculous having different schemes which applicants were told their applications were being overlap and duplicate the work. In some cases, we examined and they were waiting for the health are forcing people into making two applications inspector. Any excuse was given but because of rather than one. They believe that if they back pressure from the opposition both here and at two horses in the race rather than one, they have local authority level, applicants are now being a better chance of getting a result. In some cases, told the truth — that the applications cannot be people apply for a scheme which does not really examined because the 2002 list has not yet been apply and it is a total waste of time. cleared. For a long time we have neglected the disabled Some of the applications are simple and may and it has only been in recent years that they have concern a disabled person who can no longer got a voice. We have substantially increased the climb stairs and is thus seeking grant aid for a amount of money and the services provided for downstairs toilet or shower It is very frustrating the disabled. However, when one is starting at a for such people to experience delays. very low base, it is easy to throw figures and per- As regards the duplication in the applications centages at people and to pretend we are making process, I cannot understand why the health much progress. We have neglected the disabled board deals with one application, while local for a long time and it is important to rectify that. authorities deal with another. When frustrated I congratulate the Labour Party Members on applicants ring up a local representative concern- tabling the motion. Whatever review takes place ing applications for house repair grants, one must and whatever conclusions or recommendations go to two agencies to discover the details and one are brought forward, it is important that we sig- finds that there are nearly always two files on nificantly reduce the waiting time. Extra funding every application. That is because when appli- 361 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 362 cants do not get a reply from the health board, 6,000 in 2001, and 9,000 in 2002. He implied that they apply to the local authority either for an some counties had approved too many grants. essential repairs grant or a disabled person’s Did he mean that some grants should not have grant. I fail to understand why this process cannot been approved or that there should be a quota be combined in one application which could be system? Perhaps he thinks there are too many dealt with by one agency. people with disabilities. It is not often that Ministers get my sympathy I call on the Minister of State to introduce the but I felt sorry for the Minister of State having to disability Bill, which we have been promised for read out the script that was prepared for him. He the past couple of years. There have been many said that “the success of the scheme is due in false dawns. I support the Minister of State who, large extent to the active co-operation of the var- I know, is trying to publish the Bill, but where is ious statutory and voluntary bodies involved in it? It should be published so that we can debate the operation”. It is quite the opposite, however, it over the summer period. because it is a case of non co-operation. When Some 120,000 people with disabilities are one rings the health board they do not have a dependent on social welfare payments. The clue about the county council file and vice versa. maximum grant for someone who needs to have The Minister of State also said “the Govern- a house adapted is \20,000. Earlier in the debate, ment is very conscious of the need to ensure, that the Minister of State said there was no prioritis- the needs of the disabled and elderly persons are ation but he should take note of what is hap- taken into account in all aspects of housing pol- pening in County Cork where the county council icy”. Worse still, he said: “Local authorities have has had to devise a number of categories. Cate- been asked to draft five-year action plans cover- gory one comprises persons who are totally ing the full range of housing programmes.” We incapable of accessing their home environment. have more and more action plans and reports — Category two comprises people who have severe anything but doing the necessary work. Staff difficulties in accessing their home environment should be available to deal with applications and and where the provision of facilities would reduce somebody should be able to visit the applicant their level of dependency. Category three within a few weeks of an application being made. includes persons who experience minor difficult- They should be able to say whether the applicant ies in accessing their home environment. is qualified to obtain assistance and, if so, how The grants were suspended more than a year they can be helped. After that, it should only be ago in Cork and it is only now that they are begin- a matter of making the money available. ning to plan for them coming on stream again. Recently, in my constituency, I dealt with the People have rung me and other colleagues con- case of an elderly brother and sister who were cerning house adaptation grants for elderly or living together. Both were invalids and unable to injured relatives who cannot get into their homes climb stairs. They sought a grant for a downstairs or gain access to upstairs rooms. We have had to toilet and shower. Eventually after three and a tell them that we are sorry but there is no money half years the work was sanctioned but both of for that. Despite all the Government’s blather them died before the work was completed. That about increased funding, the system is not work- is the sad reality. I have dealt with other cases ing. All Deputies have discovered that this is so. where people were forced to put their elderly Any Deputy who goes knocking on doors — and relatives into institutional care because they I know the Minister of State, Deputy O’Dea, is a could not have their grant applications processed. great man for knocking on doors — will have In many cases the applications are for minor come across this problem. I call on the Ministers alterations to a house which would enable such to kick butt in the Department to get some action people to live out their lives in their own homes. on this. The Minister of State should forget about ask- More than a year ago, we were told that the ing councils to prepare a five-year plan. He schemes were being reviewed, but they are still should provide the necessary money and local being reviewed. Let us get our priorities right. Let authority staff to ensure that all applications are us look after the most vulnerable in society — dealt with in a humane manner, so that people those with disabilities, those who need to have will not be left frustrated by delays as they are their houses adapted in order to have some level now. of independence and dignity. They should not have to be carried upstairs to use the toilet or Mr. Stanton: I congratulate the Labour Party be obliged to relieve themselves in the kitchen or for tabling this important motion. In the past 15 sitting room. The moment a person with a dis- months, three such motions have been tabled ability has a requirement, the State should move dealing with the disabled person’s grant: in April quickly and decisively to help that person 2003, July 2003 and May 2004. On the last immediately. occasion we had such a debate, the Minister of The Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, State with responsibility for housing, Deputy spoke earlier of the need to be careful about Noel Ahern, said local authorities should live money, and to pro-actively manage the disabled within their means. He also said we simply cannot person’s grant and essential repair grant schemes continue to live with the kind of increases in to ensure they remain within their allocation. The grants that had occurred — 3,000 grants in 1996, Government, however, has not been pro-actively 363 Disabled Person’s Grant Scheme: 29 June 2004. Motion 364

[Mr. Stanton.] I am aware of another case in which a person managing its own finances in other areas. We are had a stroke and despite having made a good sick of mentioning electronic voting and the recovery is wheelchair bound. As is the case with equestrian centre in Punchestown where tens of most of our houses, this person cannot manage in millions of euros were squandered, yet the most the house while wheelchair bound. Again I con- vulnerable are left waiting for years and forced to tacted the local authority to inquire about the dis- go through all kinds of red tape. abled persons’ grant only to be told it was closed According to Cork County Council, those in for applications and advised to return some time category one will be looked after first, so those when it might be re-opened. What is that person applications will begin to be processed. Up to to do in the meantime? He or she must stay in an now, however, they were not being processed, institution, using up State funds on a level of care which is not good enough. The reviews and delays which is not required. This is short-sighted, fool- are leading to people being stuck in hospitals or ish and shows that the Minister of State is not inappropriate nursing homes, thus contributing to doing his job. waiting lists for houses and medical care. They I agree with Deputy Sea´n Power when he may be confined to potentially dangerous homes referred to the need to amalgamate all the agen- causing immeasurable strain for the individuals cies. It is ridiculous that the local authorities concerned and for their families. I join Deputy which deal with the disabled persons’ grants must Sea´n Power in asking the Government to take get input from the health boards. Up to some this issue seriously, examine it and sort it out once time ago in my area, it often took six months for and for all. the health board to respond to queries on DPGs. In addition, the essential repairs grant and hous- Mr. P. McGrath: I compliment the Labour ing aid for the elderly scheme are available. Party for tabling this motion and welcome the Surely, these grants should all be pulled together opportunity to address the House on it. I also and placed under the aegis of one unit at local authority level, which is where the competent compliment Deputy Sea´n Power on his thought- people are located. The local authorities have ful presentation to the House tonight. He is fam- engineers and can deal with contractors in order iliar with what people are saying about the diffi- to get the work done. Therefore, let us centralise culties they are experiencing in regard to disabled the system quickly. persons’ grants and has made some worthwhile We must next ensure that the system is freed proposals. However, when his speech is published up in order that no more are there people, such in the local press, as no doubt it will be since it as I have described, who are frustrated, annoyed will read very well, I wonder if he will also tell and ask what they have done to the State to the local press that he voted in favour of the deserve such treatment. Government motion which proposes to do nothing, to examine the issue again and talk Ms O’Sullivan: There is pretty much cross- about it some more. party agreement on this issue, although that will To put this issue in perspective, we must exam- not be the case when we vote on the motion ine the people to whom we are referring in a tomorrow night. Nonetheless, there is agreement practical sense. For example, I received a tele- on the importance of the disabled persons’ grant, phone call in my clinic yesterday about an elderly the housing aid for the elderly scheme adminis- lady whom I know who suffers severely from tered by the health boards and the importance of arthritis. She has had hip replacements, which doing something about them. The solutions are have failed and is now in a nursing home. She relatively simple and mainly relate to resources could be discharged to her own home, where her but the resources are not there. All that is really daughter will look after her but, unfortunately, needed is the political will to put the resources in \ she needs a stair lift which costs 5,000. I con- place and make the kinds of necessary organis- tacted the local authority to ask if she qualified ational changes suggested by Deputy Sea´n Power, for a disabled persons’ grant and was told it had such as providing the extra occupational thera- not been taking applications since October of last pists required to make assessments. year. When I asked when the local authority Public representatives know the problems very would take applications again, I was told it was well. We go out and talk to people on the door- not known. When I asked what could be done for steps, as does the Minister of State, Deputy the lady, I was told “nothing”. If, I asked, the lady O’Dea, Deputy Power and the various candidates raised a loan to pay for the lift herself, would the who recently ran for election. However, what has local authority pay her the grant when the grant been missing has been an understanding from system is open again. I was told it would not. Government at top level that these are the issues What would the Minister of State say to that which need to be prioritised. For example, when person? Would he tell her to remain in the nurs- one spends money on such basic issues, it makes ing home, taking up a bed, facilities and nursing a great deal of difference to the quality of care that she does not really need, when she could people’s life and their ability to live in their own be at home being looked after by her family if the homes. Until the Government cops-on to the fact State had the cop-on to grant this small amount that it needs to address these simple issues, it will of help? What are we to do but sit and wait. encounter the kind of alienation from the ordi- 365 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 366 nary people that many Fianna Fa´il and Progress- dealing with people who, for example, cannot use ive Democrats canvassers have experienced in the toilet in their own houses. recent weeks. There is a huge level of personal indignity in I hope something will come from this motion. all of this. People do not want to be dependent I hope there will be an examination within the on others to do things for them. They do not want relevant Departments and something will be to be in a nursing home or hospital when they done about the issue. We are talking tonight could be at home looking after themselves if they about people who cannot go to the toilet in their only had a stair lift or a bar with which to get up own homes, cannot get into their baths or show- off the toilet or a bathroom and bedroom down- ers or, in many cases, cannot get into their houses. stairs. It is not much to ask, given the rich econ- Many have to stay in a hospital, nursing homes omy we enjoy. I urge the Government to take this or elderly care units because they are missing a motion seriously. simple link which would allow them to be at home with their loved ones and avoid being a Debate adjourned. burden on the State, which is another aspect of the issue. Message from Select Committee. If one were to carry out a cost-benefit analysis of putting extra money into the disabled persons’ An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Select Com- grant and the housing aid for the elderly scheme, mittee on Finance and the Public Service has one would find it hugely of benefit to give people completed its consideration of the International the opportunity to live in their own homes. Many Development Association (Amendment) Bill people are waiting on trolleys in accident and 2003 without amendment. emergency units because beds are occupied by people who would not need to be there if they Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: Report could have these kinds of appliances in their own Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage. homes. In this manner, the Government could address one of the main political issues of the last Debate resumed on amendment 2: election, namely, the issue of people on trolleys in out-patient departments. The problem would not be solved but we could put some dent in it if In page 6, line 14, to delete “any” and substi- people could get a disabled persons’ grant when tute “a director or any other”. they needed it rather than two or three years —(Deputy Rabbitte). afterwards as other colleagues have described. Mr. Costello: Before Private Members’ busi- We have all described individual cases tonight. ness, I was saying the reason the amendment I know a woman who was in an elderly care unit seeks to delete “any” and substitute “a director for a year longer than she needed to be. Had her or any other”, is that the subsection is vague and family received the disabled persons’ grant, they it should be made clear that a director is always would have been able to take her home but presumed to have possession of a company’s instead she occupied a bed that someone else documents and other persons in senior positions needed. She did not want to be there, neither did should be presumed likewise. It directs attention her husband want here there. He wanted to take towards the director as the likely possessor of the care of her at home, but he could not do so documents — this would be the person under law because of the waiting time for the disabled per- in a corporate entity — as the director is the per- sons’ grant. son who is responsible in the first instance. It It is not rocket science nor does it require a would take the vagueness out of the text. huge level of organisation but it needs resources. We can all see it at local authority level. Many Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of us who were, until recently members of local (Mr. McDowell): The phrase in the Bill is “... in authorities, have tried to get extra funding for dis- the power of any individual who, because of his abled persons’ grant schemes during the esti- or her functions or position within the body cor- mates round. Sometimes we have been able to porate or the unincorporated body, as the case put in extra money at local level but not if it has may be, can reasonably be expected to have con- not been forthcoming at national level, from trol over the document.” Even a mention of where it is matched. If there is no decision at director would not mean every director. It would national level to grant this money, local auth- have to be a director who would have control orities are so strapped for cash that they simply over the document. It does not add anything to cannot assign the money for such important the phrase “any individual”, to add “a director”. issues as this. If I were to accept the Deputy’s amendment, the Just as a person in a Department in Dublin word “director” would not mean just any direc- may not have an understanding of what it is like tor, it would have to be a director or any individ- on the ground, often a person working in the local ual who, because of his or her functions or posi- authority or health board may not have the same tion within the body corporate or the sense of urgency about an issue as a member of unincorporated body, could reasonably be the local authority or Deputy who is talking to expected to have control over the document. It these people, understands the problems and is does not add anything. It might be used to narrow 367 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 368

[Mr. McDowell.] the terms of reference to be drafted by the Mini- the scope of any individual because the phrase ster but the Houses of the Oireachtas should have “any individual” might be construed as being cog- an opportunity to make an input. The costs and nate to director and might narrow the meaning of the time frame are determined by the Minister. “any individual”. From that point of view, I Any amendment of the terms of reference can remain of the opinion that the phrase “any indi- be made by the Minister without any reference vidual” is wide and to insert the reference to a whatever to the Oireachtas. The members of the director before it would not achieve the aim of commission are appointed by the Minister, again the amendment because a director would still without reference to the Oireachtas. have to be, on the wording of the subsection, In regard to the reports, there are provisions in somebody who had control, not merely any direc- the Bill dealing with interim reports, draft reports tor but a director who could reasonably be and final reports. Everything goes to the Minister. expected to have control over the document. It is the Minister who publishes the report. If the Acceptance of the amendment would not commission is to be terminated, it is the Govern- improve the text but would disimprove it. ment, without any reference to the Oireachtas, that does it. That is unwise. I hoped the Minister Mr. Costello: I am trying to be helpful. would see justification for the involvement of the Oireachtas to a greater degree in the operations Mr. McDowell: I know that. of the Bill. It is important if such a commission is set up Mr. Costello: If the Minister thinks I am not that there is public confidence in it. There is a helpful I will leave it at that. danger that there may be queries about the Government of the day or about particular Mini- Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. sters. Sadly, there have been such queries about particular Ministers and questions raised about An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendment No. them. I am not pointing at the Minister. A Mini- 3. Amendments Nos. 4 to 6, inclusive, 8, 13, 48, ster sat on that position one time and when I 49 and 53 are related. Amendments Nos. 7, 9, 12, asked him a certain question he nearly blew a 14, 47 to 56, inclusive, 54 to 58, inclusive, 60, 62 gasket at the temerity of suggesting that he might to 64, inclusive, are related and cognate. Amend- have had an overseas bank account. The only ments Nos. 7 and 8 are alternatives to amend- mistake I make was that he had not one but a ment No. 6, amendment No. 54 is an alternative number of them. to amendment No. 53. Amendments Nos. 3 to 9, Unfortunately, because of proceedings which inclusive, 12 to 14, inclusive, 47 to 58, inclusive, have been before the tribunals there is a certain 60, 62 to 64, inclusive, may be discussed together. query on the part of the public that would not be Mr. J. O’Keeffe: I move amendment No. 3: satisfied or resolved by a commission of investi- gation totally set up by the Government of the In page 6, line 32, to delete “Government” day, totally reporting to the Ministers of that and substitute “Houses of the Oireachtas”. Government, without any reference to the I support the central thrust of the Bill. It has the Oireachtas. There is a danger the public may not possibility of being a useful weapon in the tri- have full confidence in the process because of the bunal armoury. It has the possibility of providing way the procedure has been designed to exclude a relatively inexpensive and relatively quick the Oireachtas. It is the wrong approach. There investigation of matters of public interest. My should be a greater role for the Oireachtas. We major reservation is encapsulated in this and the debated this on Committee Stage, including the related amendments in that the Bill effectively various possibilities. Given that we are on Report involves sidelining the Houses of the Oireachtas. Stage, I am not sure it is possible to have any That is dangerous, undemocratic and the wrong amendment re-framed and included by the Mini- approach. I had hoped the Minister would give ster. It remains only to say it will constitute the the Houses of the Oireachtas some role, not major defect of the Bill if not one of these amend- necessarily in all the situations I have described, ments is accepted. Deputy Costello and I have but at least involving it to some degree in the pro- placed a full menu of amendments before the ceedings. Effectively, it has no role in respect of Minister, a number of which could be accepted a commission of investigation, other than a for- even at this point. From the perspective of mal role of passing a positive resolution when the improving the Bill and ensuring public confidence Government of the day or the Minister puts a in the system being established, I urge the Mini- draft of the proposed order before the House. In ster to accept them. all other respects, the powers for dealing with the commission are retained either by the Govern- Mr. Costello: These amendments are at the nub ment or the Minister. Effectively, it is the Mini- of the changes we would like to see introduced in ster, with the approval of the Minister for Fin- the legislation. There are two critical points, of ance, who establishes the commission by making which one is the fact that the order to establish a an order. The Minister has overall responsibility commission can only be made by the Govern- for the working of the commission. The terms of ment and cannot be amended by the Houses of reference are set by the Minister. I see a case for the Oireachtas. Second, the terms of reference of 369 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 370 a commission are likewise not subject to amend- spokesman Deputy Costello. I did not duplicate ment. The legislation is dictatorial and unilateral them to save time to allow us to get to later and is not amenable to change by the Houses of amendments, some of which I tabled. As we will the Oireachtas. The principle of establishing a not have time to deal with every amendment, I commission is positive and we have all supported hope we can return to this at some point in the it and acknowledged the great need for a struc- future. ture with the general powers provided in the The amendments under discussion seek to legislation before us. However, the Government address the need for the legislation to provide is being very jealous of its powers with the mech- powers to the Oireachtas rather than to the anism which is being provided for any Minister Government. It should be the Members of the who should choose to go down this path. The pro- Houses who set the time frames, costs and remits vision takes from the good intentions in estab- of commissions of investigations and, if need be, lishing a commission and from its democratic amend and approve their terms of reference. The nature. Minister should provide in advance for the oppor- It would be much more preferable for a com- tunity to be kept informed in opposition of the mission established to conduct an investigation progress of commissions his Government estab- into a matter of public concern to have the bless- lishes. Those commissions should be accountable ing of the House. The House should have the to Members from his party when they are in power to amend the draft order, initiate the pro- opposition. The more accountability and trans- cess and play a role in the establishment of a com- parency we provide, the more the public will buy mission in conjunction with the Government. The into what we propose here and support it in terms of reference drafted by a Minister should opposition to the current system of tribunals be discussed by the Oireachtas and after due con- which are not nearing any type of end. sideration amended appropriately. While that It would be useful if the Minister could find it appears to be the proper approach, it is pro- in his heart to accept the series of amendments hibited under the legislation. When the Sub-Com- under discussion. They make sense and would mittee on the Barron Report discussed proposals allow the Houses of the Oireachtas, particularly for investigations in this jurisdiction which were the Da´il, to play a full role in the establishment modelled on the content of this legislation, there of commissions. If the Houses of the Oireachtas was a strong belief among members that any com- do not play a full role and commissions are estab- mission would have much greater authority if it lished on foot of Government decisions, there were established by the Houses of the Oireachtas will be continuous opposition to them from rather than an individual Minister. I hoped the Deputies on this side. The amendments tabled by Minister would take this on board and that the Deputies Jim O’Keeffe and Costello go some way Houses of the Oireachtas would be ultimately towards ensuring that such commissions will be responsible for establishing a commission of transparent and accountable to both Houses of investigation rather than a Minister. I hoped also the Oireachtas. that the final substance of a commission’s terms of reference would be decided in conjunction Mr. McDowell: The grouped amendments with the Houses after due opportunity to amend under discussion are fundamental in nature. any proposals before them. While I appreciate fully that they are proposed I cannot understand why the Minister is not and tabled in good faith, we must work out in prepared to adopt this approach or, at least, pro- our own minds what the fundamental difference vide an option whereby the Oireachtas would be between commissions of inquiry and tribunals of the establishing body given that some of the com- inquiry is intended to be. missions will be required to investigate matters of We are not putting in place “tribunals of great public concern with serious ramifications. I inquiry light”, if I may use that phrase. This is hope the Minister will be able to take these not just a slightly toned down tribunal of inquiry amendments on board when he brings the legis- system. It is something fundamentally different in lation before the Seanad. To do so would not that the consequences of the establishment of a delay the Bill, but would be extremely commission of inquiry are substantially different appropriate. from those, which appertain to the establishment of a tribunal of inquiry. They are different in that Aengus O´ Snodaigh: As I indicated on Second in the case of a tribunal of inquiry the reports Stage, Sinn Fe´in broadly supports the Bill which of that body are apt to reject evidence, condemn emerged on foot of recommendations from the behaviour, blame people and hold them up to Labour Reform Commission. I hope we will see public criticism — aptly and appropriately one more socially constructive legislation of this type expects. rather than what we have seen up to now. While Strong power is vested in a tribunal of inquiry. Sinn Fe´in has some problems with the Bill, none The reports, going back to the report of Mr. Jus- is so profound that we would oppose its passage. tice Flood, that the media expect in the context As the amendments under discussion are among of a tribunal are strong, condemnatory, rejective those which should be made, it is positive that of people’s testimony and stern. One only has to they were tabled by my colleagues, Fine Gael look at the contrasting manner in which the spokesman Deputy Jim O’Keeffe and Labour strong findings of Mr. Justice Flood’s report, 371 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 372

[Mr. McDowell.] — is that they are fairly cumbersome brutes once compared with the findings of Judge Lindsay’s established. It is difficult to haul them back once report on the blood issues, were treated by the set in motion. It is difficult to say of any tribunal media to understand that when tribunals of that the terms of reference were set a little wide inquiry are established, an expectation exists that and it was turning out differently from what was the report will be strong. intended, continuing for longer than intended, or The media were unfair to Judge Lindsay with taking roads of inquiry not in mind when estab- regard to her report and I said that at the time. lished. By definition and structure, tribunals once The media expected robust stuff from every tri- launched into the public domain are difficult to bunal following the strong example set by Mr. pull back, control, amend or refocus. They are Justice Flood. Whether strong medicine is, or is also difficult to control with regard to time, not, apt in particular cases is a matter for the expense, duration or procedure, because they are judgment of the independent tribunal, rather than so hugely independent. a matter for the media to comment on or for pub- The public requires something different from lic opinion. tribunals of inquiry. The commissions of inquiry We are dealing here with something different. must not simply be different because they lack In this case we must remember that a commission some of the downsides of tribunals of inquiry, but of inquiry is not there to reject contested testi- because a distinction must be drawn between sit- mony and to come to a view that one person is uations where a full-blown tribunal is appropriate definitely telling the truth and another definitely and ones where it is unnecessary. One only has lying on an issue. If people are identified in a to look at the number of current controversies report of a commission inquiry, it is specifically which are the subject of calls for statutory inquir- provided in statute that they must be notified of ies—Idonowwish to become involved in them the proposed report on them and given an oppor- now — to see that the Government is, under tunity to vindicate their rights in the court with present law, confronted with an all duck or no regard to how the proposed report affects them. dinner approach. Currently there is either a tri- This huge safeguard is provided because it is bunal of inquiry established on the one side or appreciated that if we do not tease out conflicts there is what is portrayed to the public’s imagin- of evidence in public and do not allow the full ation as being a wholly inadequate form of panoply of the law and the full right to cross inquiry, with no powers of compulsion and very examine in public, to rebut and to do all the little powers of investigation. things thought to flow from the in re Haughey It would be a huge mistake to see this legis- decision, there must be constitutional safeguards lation as simply proposing a slightly toned down provided for people who might be adversely tribunal of inquiry. What we have in mind is affected by the publication of a report. something which is designed to be significantly We are dealing with something which is essen- different while being fair to people and guaran- tially different from the tribunal of inquiry pro- teeing their rights. It is something which is speed- cess. It is something which is not intended to be ier, more adaptable and flexible and less expens- deployed as a simple substitute for tribunals of ive, solemn and ponderous in its proceedings than inquiry. This process is not just plan B for a mat- a full-blown tribunal of inquiry. ter of public controversy but something substan- Looking back over terms of reference of tri- tially different. bunals of inquiry since I was first elected to this What the Government has in mind for this House in 1987, I note that when the great legislation is a system of inquiry which brings the decision to unleash a tribunal has same powers of compulsion and investigation as 9 o’clock been made, this House and the an inspector might have under company law Seanad have erred generally on the when appointed by the courts at the application side of liberality in setting the terms of reference, of the Director of Corporate Enforcement. It on the side of generosity in the fixing of time- brings the same degree of constitutional protec- frames and towards a lack of economy in putting tion which would apply in that case, even to the in place mechanisms to control costs. The public point of being entitled to apply to the courts not requires us to establish a different species of to have the report published because it is unfair inquiry, which is not a full-blown tribunal of to the person in question. It has that flexibility inquiry, for different situations because tribunals and at the same time a degree of realism. We are are considered to be over-elaborate for some not unleashing scaled down or emasculated tri- purposes. bunals of inquiry on people but are dealing with The purpose of these amendments, effectively, something else and I would like the House to is to put the Houses of the Oireachtas as opposed bear that in mind. The emphasis in the structure to the Executive in the driving seat. It should be of this Bill is to give a substantial degree of flexi- recalled that a precondition for the establishment bility and a degree of efficiency and speed to of a commission of inquiry is set out in section inquiries which is not available if one goes 3(2), namely, that an order establishing such a through the full canonicals and rubrics of tri- commission can only be made if a draft of the bunals of inquiry. proposed order and a statement of the reasons One of the problems with tribunals of inquiry for establishing the commission have been laid — anybody involved with them would admit this before the Houses of the Oireachtas and each 373 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 374

House has separately approved the draft which ster and point out that they need their terms of has been put before it. reference altered in this or that respect. The pub- lic will expect that it will not be a matter of six Mr. Costello: Neither House can amend it. months, a year, 18 months, two years or 15 years before these inquiries yield results, but merely a Mr. McDowell: The Houses can reject it. In matter of months because they will be smart, apt those circumstances, it seems that this measure is and flexible inquiries which will be conducted in more apt for the purposes I have in mind. If in circumstances that do not give rise to the ponder- any case, be it the Kilkenny incest case or the ousness of tribunals. swimming inquiry, both of which were non-statu- For these reasons I am against the gravamen of tory and both of which succeeded because of the these amendments, although I understand from subject matter and the circumstances in which where they are coming. If I thought for one they were established without significant statu- moment that this was a means whereby the tory powers, the person conducting the inquiry Government could effectively disembowel the finds that he or she needs the terms of reference system of tribunals of inquiry and achieve exactly changed, has run into unexpected obstacles or the same result in unfair circumstances by manip- finds that the matter is becoming much more ulating the equivalent of a tribunal by simply complex than he or she thought, the formula set directing it through changes of its terms of refer- out in the Bill allows quick and efficient changes ence and the like to achieve desired results, I to be made in that process. If a problem emerges would have some sympathy for the proposal. in June, one would not have to wait for Members However, given that the reports of these com- of the Houses of the Oireachtas to address their missions of inquiry will not be equivalent to the minds to it come the following October or reports of tribunals of inquiry in their scale and whenever. effect, I do not believe it is necessary to have such democratic accountability in respect of each and Mr. Costello: God forbid they would have to every step taken thereafter. The Executive wait for the House of the Oireachtas to address it. accountability to this House and the system of approval of the draft order is sufficient for their Mr. McDowell: That is the reality at present. I purpose. urge the House to bear in mind that this is a different animal from a tribunal of inquiry. This Mr. J. O’Keeffe: I agree with 95% of what the is intended to be speedy, efficient, flexible and Minister had to say. I agree we have problems responsive. In those circumstances the best way with the system of tribunals. They are cumber- to bring about speedy and effective outcomes of some and expensive. I would like to examine the inquiries is to have Executive rather than minis- existing system to ascertain if improvements terial responsibility for the subject matter of these could be effected thereto. However, that is a sep- amendments. We always have the guarantee that arate issue. I agree that in many instances we the reports from commissions of inquiry are not equivalent to tribunal reports. They are not have unleashed animals that have continued for reports which, in general terms, will discredit periods we did not anticipate. We should be cau- people or expose them to massive blame in cir- tious about doing anything similar in future, but cumstances where they would not have the right that is not the point I want to make. to go to court to seek a pre-emptive decision I want to deal with the question of democratic preventing their unfair treatment. This, therefore, accountability, to which the Minister referred in is a balanced approach. his last remarks. I agree with the approach in the If I were proposing the amendment of tribunals Bill and the recommendations in this regard of of inquiry law to allow Ministers to take all pow- the Law Reform Commission. The Bill seems to ers in respect of tribunals of inquiry, which are be largely modelled on the approach of the Law now vested in the Houses of the Oireachtas, and Reform Commission which suggests a private, leave the tribunals as powerful and their scope as low key inquiry where the essence is on speed, far-reaching as they are, I could see grave force cost and getting results. That has nothing to do in Deputy O’Keeffe’s amendment and the other with democratic accountability. The basic point is amendments. Then I accept it might legitimately that the Oireachtas is being excluded and vir- be said that the Government is trying to reduce tually entirely sidelined from the process. It could an important and serious power of the Houses of be that there would be issues of ministerial the Oireachtas in a manner which would be open involvement directly or indirectly in the matter to abuse, but that is not the case in this context. which is the subject of a commission of investi- I urge the House to take a view to the contrary. gation. It could be that there would be a vested What are needed are speedy and effective interest and conflict on the part of the Executive inquiries where those conducting them role up which could be buried by the Executive by estab- their sleeves. I do not know who will be lishing a commission and then controlling every appointed to these commissions of inquiry, but single aspect of it. On that basis how can we they should come back with the goods rapidly expect the public to have confidence in this new because they will be given flexibility. When they system? I will think of a simple example to illus- run into problems they should report to the Mini- trate my point. 375 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 376

Acting Chairman (Dr. Cowley): The Deputy heart, will decide the terms of reference and also must conclude. He will have the right to reply to appoint the commission, the administrative staff, the amendment. etc., it is surely important that at least the terms of reference be debated. Everybody would agree Mr. McDowell: What about section 9, which on the need to appoint a commission if the reason provides that a commission will be independent? for its establishment were of considerable public concern. Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The point is that the Execu- We have seen throughout the world that indi- tive retaining control of a commission from vidual members of governments, even in demo- beginning to end, including the report, will not cratic states, can be found compromised in certain result in democratic accountability. I have seen areas. It might very well be that such individuals reports, including reports that might not even be would be the persons whose role it would be to of a sensitive nature, lying on Ministers’ desks for establish the commission of investigation. It may many months. A case in point is the report on not be in the interests of Governments or individ- the implementation of the strategic management ual members thereof to establish, in a meaningful initiative in the Garda Sı´ocha´na, which lay on the fashion, a commission of inquiry that could do desk of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law damage to them. Therefore, the Oireachtas Reform since last December. should have some role if the matter in question is of significant public concern. It should not be left Mr. McDowell: When it was published there entirely to the Executive or the Minister. was not much of a furore. The Minister may be doing a disservice by not Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The point is that it lay on the giving any role to the Oireachtas. It has no mean- Minister’s desk for six months until certain infor- ingful role whatsoever in the establishment of any mation was released that caused him to rush its commission of investigation under this legislation. publication. If there were sensitive issues involved in the report of a commission of investi- Aengus O´ Snodaigh: The Minister has not pro- gation, that report would lie on the Minister’s ven his case on this issue. I have still to be per- desk, or possibly be locked inside a drawer, and suaded that the specified Minister is a more would not be released until after the next general appropriate person in regard to this issue than the election, at which time the next Minister would Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas. Other take over. Deputies have pointed out that there is no role With all due respect to the Minister, he has not for the Houses in setting up the commission and addressed the point. We all agree with the new setting its terms of reference. approach adopted but we want democratic Sections 31 to 38 deal with the report of such a accountability. Merely saying it is not apt that an commission and there is no mention of the order be laid before the Houses or that it might Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas other cause delay because of a summer recess is not an than the specified Minister, despite the Minister’s answer. This approach is wrong and I urge the statement that a draft of the proposed order, stat- Minister to provide, even at this late stage, at ing the reason for the establishment of the com- least some role for the Oireachtas in this Bill. mission, would be laid before the Houses. We have no role thereafter. Mr. Costello: The Minister has referred to the This House needs to ensure that it retains its very valuable function of this legislation, namely, existing powers. Since I have become a Member that it will be able to deal speedily and effectively we have been giving them away and ceding them with matters of significant public concern. That is to statutory bodies that are less answerable to the absolutely desirable but there are two serious House than the Minister. Under this Bill the points that must be addressed. The first point is Minister has all the powers. I hope the current distinct from Deputy Jim O’Keeffe’s point on Minister will not be in power all his life. It would bona fides of Ministers and significant public con- cern about some people’s activities and relates be good for him and other members of Govern- entirely to the procedures for dealing with mat- ment, if they were on this side of the House, to ters of significant public concern that would be able to question commissions that Deputy require the establishment of a commission of Costello and I will set up and also to query the investigation. It is surely important that both remit we give thereto. Houses of the Oireachtas grant their imprimatur It is true that the commissions are a different in a meaningful fashion with regard to a com- species and we welcome that. Everybody on this mission with the fairly extensive powers which we side of the House has welcomed the need for are providing under this Bill. These powers speed in dealing with these issues. We have include powers of search and seizure. shown ourselves to be capable of amending Even if the Houses of the Oireachtas decide to orders and dealing with legislation in double- accept the draft order laid before them by the quick time if it is urgent, as it has been on some Minister, it is inappropriate to exclude them from occasions. One such instance concerned a bridge having a say in how the commission will operate. in Waterford and high seas. We can return from Given that the Minister, looking deeply into his holidays early if—— 377 Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003: 29 June 2004. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 378

Mr. Costello: The National Monuments get on with the job and produce different results (Amendment) Bill. in future.

Aengus O´ Snodaigh: That is another Bill that Mr. J. O’Keeffe: We have a very short time and we dealt with in double-quick time. Our ability there is another issue I would like to discuss. I to pass legislation quickly disproves the argument fundamentally disagree with the Minister on this that the Houses should not have a role so the issue but he is not for turning. This is an indica- necessary provisions can be made quickly. If tion of an underlying tendency on the part of the there were a need for speed, this side of the Minister which has been talked about. It is not House would not be found wanting. The Minister democratic to do things the way the Minister is should accept the amendments tabled by insisting on doing it. However, he is insisting and Deputies Costello and Jim O’Keeffe. he has the fire power to push it through the lobby. On the basis that we have only a few Mr. McDowell: Consider sections 5 and 6. minutes left to discuss the Bill I will not push the Under section 5(1), the terms of reference are not issue to a vote so that we can deal with another as broad as the general powers of the Oireachtas. issue which should be discussed. Section 5(2) states that a statement containing an Question, “That the words proposed to be estimate of the cost, a timeframe, etc., must be deleted stand”, put and declared carried. prepared. Section 6(1) states: “The power to set a commission’s terms of reference includes the Amendment declared lost. power to amend, at any time before the sub- mission of the commission’s final report, those Mr. Costello: I move amendment No. 4: terms with the consent or at the request of the commission for the purpose of clarifying, limiting In page 6, lines 38 to 43, to delete all words or extending the scope of its investigation.” from and including “if—” in line 38 down to Section 6(2) states: “A commission may not con- and including “House” in line 43 and substitute sent to or request an amendment of its terms of the following: reference if satisfied that the proposed amend- “if a resolution approving terms of reference ment would prejudice the legal rights of any per- for the proposed commission has been son who has co-operated with or provided infor- passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas”. mation to the commission in the investigation.” There are huge circumscribing protections in all Question, “That the words proposed to be of this. deleted stand”, put and declared carried. I am amused by Deputy O´ Snodaigh saying I may be on the other side of the House. Maybe I Amendment declared lost. will and maybe I will not at some stage. Amendments Nos. 5 to 14, inclusive, not Mr. Costello: The Minister may be demoted in moved. the autumn. Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 15, 36 and 37 are related and may be discussed together. Mr. McDowell: Maybe I will lose my seat and will be spared the pleasure of seeing himself and Deputy Costello establishing these commissions. Mr. McDowell: I move amendment No. 15: However, I was attracted by the notion that In page 9, between lines 37 and 38, to insert Deputy O´ Snodaigh saw himself and Deputy the following: Costello as setting these things but there was no reference to Deputy O’Keeffe. I wonder what is “(2) The specified Minister may direct that going on over there. Maybe this is the new alter- a competitive tendering process be used in native Government of the left coming into being. selecting persons with relevant qualifications and experience (including barristers and Mr. J. O’Keeffe: I would have thought Deputy solicitors) for appointment under subsection O´ Snodaigh would have been thinking of a direct (1). replacement with the Minister. (3) The specified Minister may prepare guidelines that are to be followed if a Mr. McDowell: Exactly. I strongly urge upon direction is given to use a competitive ten- the House that I want to establish things that dering process. work very quickly and that the track record of the House in setting terms of reference has not (4) Before directing that a competitive been good. tendering process be used, the specified Minister shall consult with the chairperson of the commission concerned or, if the Mr. Costello: We have never got the chance. commission consists of only one member, with the sole member. Mr. McDowell: We have always erred on the side of vagueness and have had controversy as a (5) In considering whether to direct that consequence. Let us be focused, tight, efficient, a competitive tendering process be used, 379 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 380

[Mr. McDowell.] mandatory tendering would impede a commission the specified Minister may have regard and create a white elephant. to—— Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The Minister has accepted my (a) the subject matter of investigation, proposal in principle. I am happy with that. I (b) the time frame for the submission believe huge savings can be made in payments to of the commission’s final report to the barristers, solicitors and other experts by com- specified Minister, missions. This precedent can be applied to other tribunals. I am glad the principle has been (c) the qualifications and experience accepted and will be in legislation. required for appointment, I was, initially, inclined to question the fact that (d) the functions to be performed by the Minister will have discretion and will not be the persons, required to have a tendering process but this is a small point. The principle has been included in (e) the likely costs of the performance the statute and a statutory precedent has been of those functions, and established. I hope the precedent will be (f) any other relevant factor.”. extended throughout the public service for the appointment of highly paid specialists of all kinds, This amendment arises out of a discussion on not just lawyers. It is not for me to be totally Committee Stage during which Deputy O’Keeffe against lawyers but they should be involved in a raised the question of tendering when recruiting competitive process when they are dealing with persons to provide advice and assistance. The the State. issue of a tendering facility was debated on Com- On that basis, I accept the formulation now mittee Stage and this amendment provides the proposed by the Minister and I am prepared not means for recruiting in this way. to press my own amendment. Section 8 deals with the recruitment and appointment of staff, for example lawyers and Mr. Costello: I agree with the amendment orig- other specialist staff, to advise and assist a com- inally tabled by Deputy Jim O’Keeffe. The exor- mission. The proposed amendment provides that bitant fees and the length of time tribunals have the specified Minister may — not shall — direct, been running have given the process a very bad following consultation with the commission, that name. Some reasonable procedure needs to be a competitive tendering process should be used. put in place to curtail that. Since we are now Discretion is being allowed as tendering may not establishing commissions of investigation in a be appropriate in every case. new format, it is appropriate that we introduce a The amendment also foresees that tendering tendering process. I would prefer to see it com- may, in certain circumstances, be availed of for pulsory but we must crawl before we run. This is the recruitment not only of lawyers but also of a most welcome proposal. I hope it has the other specialists. The proposed amendment pro- required effect. vides that in deciding whether or not to use a ten- We must also examine the question of fees and dering process the specified Minister will have to how they are computed. The idea that anyone have regard to the subject of the investigation. should get a daily fee for work that takes months There may be instances where the subject matter or years is untenable. is so specialised and specific that the pool of expertise would be so small that a tendering pro- Acting Chairman: I am now required to put the cess would not be practicable. The Minister must following question in accordance with an order of also have regard to the timeframe for the sub- the Da´il of this day: “That the amendments set mission of the final report, the qualifications and down by the Minister for Justice, Equality and experience required for the appointment, the Law Reform and not disposed of are hereby functions to be performed, the likely costs and made to the Bill, that Fourth Stage is hereby com- any other relevant factor. The amendment deals pleted and the Bill is hereby passed.” specifically with the staff retained by a commission. Question put and agreed to. Two other areas which give rise to costs are already provided for. A separate regime is already provided in sections 23 and 24 in respect State Airports Bill 2004: Second Stage of cases where a witness seeks to have fees paid (Resumed). by him or her to a lawyer refunded by the com- mission and the Minister. Section 17 sets up a Question again proposed: “That the Bill be procedure whereby when someone obstructs a now read a Second Time.” commission or fails to co-operate with it so that Mr. N. O’Keeffe: In the absence of my col- other parties or the commissioner incur leagues, and signalling to them to come straight additional costs, that person can be held liable for away, I will avail of a minute of their time to those additional costs. express my concerns about this Bill. I agree that the tendering process is discretion- In many ways I do not oppose the Minister’s ary but it would be a mistake to make it manda- ideas per se but I am concerned that the proposal tory in every case. There may be cases where before the House was not thought out fully. I am 381 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 382 concerned from the point of view of the future of Recently the Minister received a report, based the airports, particularly Cork Airport, and about on departmental figures, that estimated Shannon the situation generally. It makes no sense to pro- will need an annual subvention of \10 million to ceed in this way. Surely we should have all the survive. The ending of the stop-over will form an figures and the facts before us before we make integral part of any new arrangement so Shannon such important decisions. will not have the necessary numbers arriving from I did not like the way the Government America. In Farranfore Airport, which is oper- announced a few weeks ago that it proposed to ated on a shoestring budget, things are tight, but introduce legislation and that it would pass I cannot see the same practices that have helped through the House before the summer recess on to make Farranfore Airport successful working in 8 July. This was before the Bill had been circu- Shannon Airport. Comparisons have been made lated. If ever there was an indication of an arro- between the two airports but they are inaccurate. gant and autocratic Government, that was it. The I fear that Shannon Airport will be the loser if notion that it would presume that a Bill that had we go down this road. In the past, I supported not even been seen by Members would be rub- an arrangement where there would be a separate ber-stamped by the Oireachtas is the supreme entity to support Shannon Airport under the example of arrogance. umbrella of Aer Rianta, with a subsidy from The approach adopted is wrong from every Dublin Airport, which is successful and profit- point of view — the business and staff have no able. That would ensure the cake was shared confidence in the Minister’s ideas because busi- nationally — it was a vehicle for a regional strat- ness plans have not been produced and they have egy. This proposal, however, is doomed to failure. no security as regards their situation in the The Minister wants to create change and I absence of such plans. I am opposed to the pro- admire him for that but in this instance he is cess as much as the substance. There may be wrong. The business plans should have been pre- merit in the substance of the Bill but the onus is pared first with the legislation following if the plans were viable. If that was the case, Shannon on the Government to prove that. Airport would still be part of Aer Rianta under the new name of Dublin Airport Authority, with Mr. Deenihan: I welcome the opportunity to Cork Airport standing alone. There is no way the speak on this Bill. Shannon Airport is critical to figures will add up so Shannon can survive on the western seaboard. A recent survey showed its own. that over 50% of transatlantic passengers who disembark in Shannon Airport will wind up in Mr. S. Ryan: Michael O’Leary says they add Kerry, while only 21% of those who disembark up. in Dublin will go there. Shannon Airport is, therefore, vital for regional development. Mr. Deenihan: For the sake of Shannon Air- Dublin Airport is much too dominant in the port, I advise the Minister to rethink what he is market. It accounts for 84% of European traffic, doing here or it might have devastating con- 81% of UK traffic and 80% of Aer Rianta traffic. sequences for the western seaboard and the In contrast, Shannon Airport accounts for just mid-west. 7% of Aer Rianta’s UK and European traffic, according to the 2002 figures. Dublin Airport also Mr. Allen: This Bill is putting the cart before has 56% of transatlantic traffic but this represents the horse. It is a case of Ministers passing the bis- only 5% of its business mix because of its enor- cuit from one position at the Cabinet table to the mous dominance of European and UK services. other. I object to guillotining of the Bill. I do not Shannon Airport has 44% of transatlantic traffic, know why it was introduced in haste. It is being representing 32% of its traffic mix. Any change pushed through the House now and will be in the bilateral agreement that affects Shannon pushed through the Seanad next week and there Airport will have major repercussions for the will then be a hiatus until such time as financial entire western seaboard. reports are completed. None of the five reports that have been com- I am not here to whinge but to be factual. Cork missioned into airport services recommended the has received a number of raw deals in the past. approach now being taken by the Government. Promises were made about a blood transfusion The PricewaterhouseCoopers report has been service in Cork but there has been no sign of any quoted most often in the House. That report developments. Delays in the construction of the failed to show that Shannon and Cork Airports Cork School of Music added to our woes. We could survive as viable stand-alone entities. The have no option but to take the proposals in this report also acknowledged that additional capital Bill at face value. expenditure would have to be met by increasing If Cork Airport is to be viable and to develop landing charges, which would reduce competi- to its full potential it needs a carriageway tiveness. It stated there would have to be a major between the new terminal building and the old investment of \36 million in Shannon Airport in building. It requires a new fire station, ramp the years between 2005 and 2008. Will this hap- space, taxiways, a new cargo facility and apron pen if Aer Rianta is broken up and a company is stands. I do not see how all this can be achieved. established in Shannon with few resources? Cork Airport has been promised \160 million 383 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 384

[Mr. Allen.] business plan to see if this is viable and to draw free of charge and a new terminal free of charge. up a plan for the future with financial projections, In the long term, it is like giving a hospital to a passenger forecasts and everything that goes with community without fitting it out. There will be a an airport viability plan. It stands any business new terminal building but the airport will not theory on its head to make a decision before a have the capacity to expand because the site is study of the viability of that decision is very confined on 600 acres. It has only 13 apron completed. stands and will require more if it is to develop its There are serious doubts about the viability of business. I do not see how that can be achieved the airport following the break-up. Shannon Air- by this Bill. I would have preferred to see the port is vital for the development of both the west financial reports on each of the airports com- and mid-west of Ireland yet every time Shannon pleted before this legislation was presented to Airport is discussed here, Deputies from the mid- the House. west and the west must defend the stopover and If handled incorrectly, the break up will not the viability of the airport. We are still doing it only impact on Cork Airport, but will have a very in 2004, trying to ensure the survival of Shannon negative effect on the Cork region as a whole, Airport and expressing our doubts that the affecting sectors such as local and international present approach and policy of the Government business and the tourism sector stretching from will ensure the viability and survival of Shannon Waterford to Kerry. How does it fit in with the as an important resource vital to the survival of spatial strategy published last year and about the business and tourism development of the mid- which very little has been done? How does it fit west and the west region. in with aviation policy, if such a policy exists? American business makes up 44% of Shan- Cork Airport has developed a holiday charter non’s traffic; 50% of business in the Shannon free business in recent years but business travel has zone is American, dependent on viable and gone downhill. Aer Lingus last year discontinued immediate access to the American market. IBEC its early morning flight from Cork. Aer Arann has repeatedly stressed the importance of Shan- now provides that service. Baggage cannot be non Airport to the continuation of American booked through from Cork to the final desti- business in the mid-west region. It contributes to nation; passengers must disembark at Dublin, the attractiveness of the mid-west region for busi- claim their baggage and check it in again, which ness from the United States in particular. One of is crazy. The flights from Cork do not connect the attractions is a viable, efficient airport with with early morning flights to Europe. Aer Lin- immediate access. That is being put in question gus’s policy has left Cork out on a limb. again. The Minister’s ill-conceived proposals will I was a member of the Oireachtas Joint Com- cause Cork to suffer even further. It is an ill- mittee on Transport which examined the Shan- thought out Bill being pushed through the House. non stopover. We learned that everyone in Dub- It does not give the Opposition, who were lin Airport has an agenda for Shannon Airport to presented with the Bill last week, the time and become a junior regional airport to Dublin. The opportunity to consult the people who will be Minister proposes putting the airport under the most affected, the business community in the authority of Dublin Airport for a period. Once region and those within the airport who have Dublin takes over Shannon, that is the death- given sterling service to the airport since it was knell of Shannon. opened in the 1960s. It is a friendly and efficient airport but it has been strangled by the heavy Mr. B. O’Keeffe: I wish to share my time with hand of Dublin. Deputies Hoctor, Haughey and Dennehy.

Mr. Neville: I welcome the opportunity to con- Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed. tribute to the debate. I am extremely disap- pointed that the time is so short. The guillotine Mr. B. O’Keeffe: I am very much in favour of has ensured that those of us from the area who the break up of Aer Rianta. I have always said it wish to make detailed contributions do not have is essential and vital for Cork. It gives Cork an the opportunity to do so. The Minister has unprecedented opportunity for development and decided that the House should not discuss this growth. Bill. His own party, parliamentary party and I have listened over the years to many transport policy group have requested him to members of staff complaining that Dublin rules. allow further detailed discussion. Obviously the Cork Airport is third in line when it comes to Minister is responsive neither to the Da´il nor to infrastructural development, when it comes to a his own parliamentary party and transport policy marketing budget and capital projects. Every- group. body in this House will have witnessed how much It is of vital importance to the mid-west region we were forced out on a limb to ensure that the and to the west of Ireland that Shannon Airport new terminal at Cork Airport was deemed essen- remains viable. There are many question marks tial, given that the throughput in the airport for over the viability of Shannon Airport following a which the present terminal was built, was in terms break-up. I do not understand why the Minister of 700,000 passengers and the airport now has 2.4 would break up something and then decide on a million passengers. The time has long come and 385 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 386 gone since that terminal was needed for Cork I have certain reservations and inform the Airport to provide facilities for passengers. How Minister, without apology, that with regard to the often have I stated Cork Airport had a marketing \150 million cost for the new terminal, I want a budget of \300,000 or \400,000 in comparison? level playing pitch once Cork Airport is operating In just a few years, however, annual passenger on a stand-alone basis. I do not want it to—— turnover has increased from 700,000 to the cur- rent figure of 2.4 million. Mr. S. Ryan: The Deputy wants Dublin to pay for the terminal in order that it can be priv- Mr. Broughan: Aer Rianta must have done a atised afterwards. good job. Mr. Sherlock: From where will the \250 million Mr. B. O’Keeffe: There is scope for more cost of refurbishment come? development. Mr. Broughan: It is the first step towards priv- Mr. S. Ryan: That can be achieved under the atisation. current structure. Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Dublin is already paying the Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Rather than being the hind cost of the over-emphasis of Bord Fa´ilte and tit in terms of the three State airports, Cork Air- other agencies on developing Dublin. The cost is port has shown, with meagre funding, that people nothing new or exceptional and has been borne want to use it. People on the Continent want to in Dublin already. visit Cork and Kerry. People in the United States It is vital that a business plan for Cork Airport would also love an opportunity to use the airport. allows it, as a stand-alone airport, an opportunity I am not afraid of an open skies policy. to develop. The Minister must not impose con- ditions on the new terminal. We must be given an Mr. P. Breen: Cork Airport does not offer opportunity to build on the airport’s confidence transatlantic services. and the progress already achieved. It must be allowed to flourish as a magnet for counties Cork Mr. B. O’Keeffe: I welcome it because it offers and Kerry. an opportunity to Cork and Kerry to benefit from visitors from the United States who will appreci- Mr. S. Ryan: We will make the Deputy the ate the south-west and develop the tourism pack- chief executive. age that is part and parcel of the region. Ms Hoctor: Gabhaim buı´ochas as ucht na deise Mr. S. Ryan: It will be sold off to the Fianna labhairt sa Teach anocht ar an mBille ta´bhacht- Fa´il Party’s friends. ach seo. I welcome the opportunity, however brief, to address the House. I have been aston- Mr. B. O’Keeffe: The new terminal building is ished by speakers from the Opposition benches. welcome and comes not before time. I have a good memory and remind my colleagues that when a very important decision about Shan- Mr. S. Ryan: From where did the money come? non Airport was made in April last year on the question of continuing to service troops passing Mr. B. O’Keeffe: I pay a special tribute to the through the airport, not one Deputy from the friendly, welcoming and kind staff in the airport mid-west region supported the motion before who ensure the service is local, friendly and, the House. above all, compassionate. Mr. P. Breen: The service for troops is inter- Mr. S. Ryan: Hear, hear. mittent and a minor part of the airport’s business which will not keep it going. Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Well done to the marketing staff and management of Cork Airport. Although Mr. S. Ryan: It is keeping the war going. we were beaten on Sunday, we are proud to stand alone with confidence that we can deliver more Ms Hoctor: At least, the Opposition took a and more passengers and create a self-sufficient stand and voted against the motion but not one airport. Deputy from the mid-west region voted to sup- I have heard mealy-mouthed expressions of port Shannon Airport. Deputy Breen is aware of confidence in the staff of Cork Airport and com- this and should not try to convince me that he is plaints of being restricted under the old regime, concerned about the airport’s future. which nevertheless survived and grew. I am amazed at the growth the airport achieved, Mr. P. Breen: The Deputy does not know her despite the inadequacy of its budget. I am also facts. amazed at the confidence of its staff, the heavy- handed manner with which it has been dealt over Ms Hoctor: I know the Deputy and the deputy the years by a Dublin bureaucracy which has leader of the Labour Party were not present on restricted its development. that occasion. 387 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 388

[Ms Hoctor.] Mr. S. Ryan: He put off a decision on the Given that the programme for Government second terminal resulting in a loss of more provides for legislation on State airports, it money. should come as no surprise that the legislation is before the House one year after the Minister Mr. P. Breen: He is putting the cart before announced the break-up of Aer Rianta. I wel- the horse. come the legislation and was one of the first members of the mid-west regional authority to Ms Hoctor: The Deputies complain the legis- do so. lation is proceeding too fast. They should make up their minds. Mr. P. Breen: The Deputy should come down Priority must be given to attracting more low to Shannon and welcome it. cost carriers to Shannon Airport to develop a ser- ies of new routes, largely to the United Kingdom Ms Hoctor: I make no apologies for welcom- and the Continent. The airport has a serious ing it. deficiency on such routes. I compliment the Minister on moving forward Mr. Durkan: The Bill will result in the abolition on this matter. The 2 million passengers currently of the Shannon stop-over. using Shannon Airport will not increase to 4 mill- ion without additional structures being put in Ms Hoctor: Dublin Airport has an average of place, specifically as regards the road network 45,000 passengers per day and up to 80,000 per which falls within the Minister’s remit. The new day during the busy summer period. While that is bypass recently opened on the N7 is excellent but fine, I would not be pleased if I was living on the development on the route must continue. We north side of Dublin where congestion is appal- know the development of the western corridor is ling. Why should we in the mid-west contribute planned and urge the Minister to move ahead to this congestion when we have a state-of-the- with it with the National Roads Authority. art, under-utilised and under-capacity facility at The rail network must also expand. Developing Shannon Airport? I will not take lectures on how the Shannon to Ennis and Ennis to Limerick rail it should be run from people in Dublin because links and the Nenagh-Roscrea-Ballybrophy rail decisions on the airport have for too long been line is necessary. If these areas of the mid-west largely made in Dublin. were served, Shannon Airport would be better served. Mr. S. Ryan: Michael O’Leary is making the decisions. Mr. S. Ryan: That sounds like the promise to Ms Hoctor: While Aer Rianta, with its limited drain the River Shannon. capacity, has done a good job, it always made decisions with Dublin in mind, rather than Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Deputy Ryan would like to Shannon. drain the rest of the country to clog up Dublin.

Mr. S. Ryan: The Minister is listening. Ms Hoctor: We are not interested in going to Dublin. If Shannon Airport is left as it is, it will Mr. Durkan: He has a panel for Shannon Air- not grow. We must also consider the dispersed port but is not saying who is on it. population it serves. When one adds counties Galway, Clare, Limerick and Kerry, however, Ms Hoctor: The legislation offers a great there is no doubt that it can meet its capacity. I opportunity to develop Shannon Airport. US Air- compliment the Minister on his courage in introd- ways services from Philadelphia and Continental ucing the legislation and fully support him. flights from Newark are excellent examples of what can happen when innovative opportunities Mr. S. Ryan: That is not what the Deputy says are afforded to the airport. One has only to visit behind the Minister’s back. it to get easy parking and realise that it is under- utilised. The deficiencies in the running of the air- Ms Hoctor: The Deputy has not been listening port are largely evident in the lack of short haul to me. flights to the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe. Most of us must still travel to Dublin to (Interruptions). fly to the Continent. It does not make sense that 80% of continental flights take off from Dublin Acting Chairman: Order, please. when we have a large rural community in the mid-west and on the west coast who wish to travel Mr. Haughey: I am not happy that Second but must travel to Dublin and add to its conges- Stage is being rushed through the House. Da´il tion when they want to leave the country. business was changed unexpectedly last week to I have no doubt Dublin Airport will develop accommodate this legislation. Less than five and the second terminal will be built. We have hours was devoted to Second Stage and only one every trust in the Minister in this regard but we hour has been provided this evening. That is not must also develop Shannon Airport. enough. 389 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 390

Deputies: Hear, hear. Deputies: Hear, hear.

Mr. S. Ryan: Is the Government Chief Whip Mr. Haughey: SIPTU produced a document listening? last year entitled A Ruthless Act of Institutional- ised Vandalism. While as legislators, we are Mr. Haughey: I accept the decision was taken obliged to listen to all concerns and not only by the Government to break up Aer Rianta but those of trade unions, SIPTU highlights nine both Houses need more time to debate these different myths surrounding Aer Rianta. They issues. The case for the break-up of are as follows: Aer Rianta’s airport charges are 10 o’clock this State company has not been excessive; Aer Rianta is another State-owned made to date. Many questions white elephant; congestion at Dublin Airport regarding this matter remain unanswered and, shows that Aer Rianta is basically incompetent; unfortunately, we cannot obtain the answers, competition between the three Aer Rianta air- given the limited time available on Second Stage. ports would make them more efficient; compe- I ask the Government, even at this late stage, tition between the airports would reduce running to consider referring the Committee Stage of the costs; competition between them will drive down legislation to the Select Committee on Transport so that it can be discussed at length over the air fares for passengers and boost tourism; the summer. Minister has a mandate to break up Aer Rianta; Shannon Airport will thrive as an independent Mr. Allen: That will get the Minister off the company; and the unions in Aer Rianta are hook. opposed to change.

Mr. Haughey: Will the legislation be needed? Mr. S. Ryan: Michael O’Leary can continue to The Ministers for Finance and Transport may tell lies but the Minister will not respond to him. veto these plans next year if they are not satisfied with the business plans presented. In addition, the Mr. Haughey: There is chaos in Dublin Airport agreement of the House will also be needed. and the travelling public fully realise this. Severe Would it be more sensible, as previous speakers congestion is being experienced and, therefore, have said, if the business plans were presented new airline business cannot be attracted. A total first? of 15 million passengers use the airport currently and that could increase to 30 million in the next Deputies: Hear, hear. ten to 15 years. A new terminal is needed to pro- vide for new routes, increase employment and Mr. Haughey: I refer to the ten-year business generate more tourism. The debate centres on plan submitted by the chairman of Aer Rianta. whether this should be the proposed pier D or This plan is acceptable to the unions. Under the an independent terminal. Thirteen expressions of plan, Aer Rianta highlights the difficulties that interest were submitted for the new independent will be faced by Cork and Shannon Airports in terminal. The procedure for selecting the winning the years ahead. entry, if that route is pursued, must be trans- On Friday, 13 June 2003 I met representatives parent, accountable and open. I said this to the of SIPTU at their request in Leinster House Minister earlier and he agreed. together with a number of Members to discuss Aer Rianta said \8 million has been spent on the union’s concerns about the break-up of Aer pier D and it is looking to recoup that amount. Rianta and other matters. I wrote to SIPTU on 3 Many questions need to be answered and I hope July 2003 and informed the union of my oppo- that can be done on Committee Stage. sition to these proposals. I stated I would high- light their concerns to the Taoiseach and the Mr. S. Ryan: The spirit of Fianna Fa´il still Minister for Transport, which I duly did. The exists. De Valera must be spinning in his grave. Government decided later in July to proceed with these plans and, even though I have concerns Shame on the rest of the party’s backbenchers. about the legislation, as a Government Deputy I am obliged to support it. Mr. Dennehy: Members representing the Under the legislation, the Minister is essentially different areas surrounding the three airports are introducing competition between Dublin, Cork giving the legislation a different welcome and and Shannon airports. He wishes to ensure the they are placing a different emphasis on its con- three new boards are commercially focused. In tents. We, in Cork, have felt for a long time that addition, he also proposes to introduce compe- we have been deprived of certain benefits that tition within Dublin Airport by providing for the accrued in other areas, particularly Shannon and construction of a second terminal run by private Dublin. Dublin ruled the roost. Cork is an interests. I hope the Minister’s plans work for efficient, capable airport which has been selected everyone’s sake and that conditions will improve. as the best national airport three years running The fear, however, is that an ideology is being by consumers. pursued for the sake of it when a more pragmatic approach might be preferable. Mr. S. Ryan: Why put that at risk? 391 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 392

Mr. Dennehy: If one is afraid of change and Mr. S. Ryan: The Deputy should ask his Mini- competition, one should shout, roar and bellow ster to do it because he is preventing that. and attempt to slow progress by all means. Deputy Batt O’Keeffe mentioned the compe- Mr. Allen: Aer Lingus will not fly between tition faced by Cork Airport while Deputy Allen Cork Airport and Dublin Airport. and others are also aware of it because we all challenged the unfair marketing budget available Ms O’Sullivan: I wish to share time with to one airport compared with others. We believed Deputy Stanton. it was wrong. I congratulate Deputy Haughey on his fine contribution. I welcome the true spirit of Fianna Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Remember what Peter Barry Fa´il in his contribution, which has been so cowed did for Cork. by the Progressive Democrats over recent years that few of its members are willing to stand up Mr. Dennehy: We all made representations about this, as it involved a misuse of State funds and speak. It is time they did. It is also time the to channel the money in one direction. rushed passage of the legislation was stopped. Cork Airport has never had an artificial prop. According to this evening’s news reports, the Airlines have never been forced to land there to Minister is being asked by members of his own use the airport and that is the key to its success. party to slow the passage of the legislation and to The airport was losing up to £800,000 per year in wait until the autumn. I ask the Minister to do the mid-1980s, but through staff changes, cut- so in the interest of sanity because, aside from backs and the hard work of staff, those losses everything else, he is throwing away 45 years of were turned around quickly. Four major improve- progress at Shannon Airport, including Shannon ments were made at the airport, all of them Development Limited which was founded by the funded through the budget of the Cork business Lemass Government in 1958. Maybe that is why unit. Only one proposal was refused. Funding of Deputy Haughey is conscious of history. £250,000 was sought in the mid-1980s to extend The Shannon Development Company has been the runway and it was refused by the Minister of thrown into the mix because the Shannon Free the day. Zone’s assets are to be transferred in order to hold up the new airport company, which will Mr. B. O’Keeffe: A Fine Gael Minister. appear to be non-viable unless it has that funding. That will put Shannon Development into an Mr. Dennehy: That was the only time the air- impossible situation. This is not just a threat to port ran into trouble. the future of Shannon Airport but to the future of Shannon Development and the entire region, Mr. Durkan: The Deputies should go back to where over 40,000 jobs are directly dependent on 1977 to find out why. I hope they have better the airport. memories than that. It is absolute madness to do this without a pro- Mr. Dennehy: Members who want days and per business plan. The Minister should not go months to debate the legislation have come into ahead and split the airports into three different the House bellowing and doing nothing else. That companies before receiving business plans for is not debate. them. That is absolute madness. I do not know how Humpty Dumpty can be Mr. S. Ryan: Government backbenchers are put back together once he has been broken up, only realising today at the last minute that there and that is what seems to be happening with this is a problem. legislation. Aer Rianta is to be broken up, then the individual boards draw up business plans, but Mr. Broughan: We only had four hours to if the Minster for Finance, whether it be Deputy debate it. McCreevy or not, does not approve the process it has to be undone. How can the process be Mr. Sherlock: What are the advantages for undone if it is legislated for in this rushed Cork Airport? fashion? None of us has the time to make a proper point because of the tiny amount of time Mr. Dennehy: The airport has optimised every allocated to us, though I would love to be able opportunity it has had and does not fear compe- to develop the issues involving Shannon tition or challenge. It is the most efficient and Airport. best airport. The Ta´naiste said recently that there was sup- port for this move in Shannon, and there is, but Mr. S. Ryan: Why privatise it? it is in Progressive Democrats-controlled organis- ations in Shannon such as the board of Shannon Mr. Dennehy: No airline will be forced in Development. there. Willie Walsh has said airlines could fly transatlantic routes out of Cork Airport. That should be allowed. Ms Hoctor: There is not—— 393 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 394

Mr. S. Ryan: Deputy Hoctor got it wrong about dent entities and will not be dependent on low- the hospitals. She should not get this wrong as cost carriers for survival? Since the Cork tunnel well. came into operation the airport has become more important, and people from all over the southern Ms Hoctor: I did not get it wrong. part of the country use it. There may also be a need for a light rail link from the airport to the Ms O’Sullivan: In addition to splitting up Aer city. Rianta the Government is also getting rid of the All of this must be funded, and my information 50-50 gateway status. Deputy Dennehy should is that the profits the airport will generate are not say that is propping up anything in Shannon relatively small and will not be enough to fund — it gives equality to Shannon and Dublin. There the essential infrastructural work which will be are as many people who want to fly into Shannon required. If that expansion cannot be funded then as into Dublin. the airport will stagnate and may begin to die. That cannot be allowed to happen. Mr. Dennehy: The Deputy’s colleagues are afraid to discuss this. I have seen massive queues in the airport, lead- ing out of the old terminal, and we must ensure Mr. Allen: Deputy Dennehy should roar at the airport is comfortable. I am told that cutbacks the Minister. are already being made in the new terminal, with walkways not being covered, for example. That Ms O’Sullivan: These three major changes in cannot continue. Shannon — to Shannon Development, to Aer It is important to get this right and I am wor- Rianta and to the transatlantic corridor, are being ried about the rush. Let us do this right if we are made in the interest of the Progressive Demo- to do it at all. crats philosophy. Fianna Fa´il should be ashamed to sign up to this Progressive Democrats agenda Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): I thank and the Minister should listen to his own party Deputies for their contributions. I have taken members rather than to the 3% or 4% of the careful note of what they have been saying and I electorate which votes for the Progressive look forward to fleshing out many of these details Democrats. on Committee Stage on Thursday.

Mr. S. Ryan: And to Michael O’Leary. Mr. S. Ryan: Will there be time for Committee Stage on Thursday? Ms O’Sullivan: Please do not throw the entire Shannon region down the tubes just for ideology. Mr. Brennan: The reforms provided for in the Bill are focused on developing Dublin Airport, Mr. Stanton: I am pleased to have the chance Cork Airport and Shannon Airport going for- to voice my concerns. I agree with what speakers ward and to increase traffic, to bring in more air- have said about the importance of Cork Airport lines and to significantly grow the number of to the economic and industrial growth of the area. passengers and jobs at the airports. The only It is absolutely vital. The airport has not received sensible way to grow those jobs is to grow the much support in the last 20 years and massive business at the three State airports and it is investment is needed, though I welcome the important to emphasise that they will remain extension of the terminal. I also agree with pre- State-owned airports. Growing business and vious speakers’ comments about marketing prob- bringing in airlines are the challenges I am trying lems with the airport. I am very concerned about the future of the to focus on. airport and we must ensure that funding is avail- Under strong and focused leadership Shannon able to expand it. Runways need to be length- and Cork airports can have a fresh start and they ened, the terminal building must be refurbished, will be able to develop separate business stra- new ramp areas and cargo buildings are needed, tegies and concentrate on marketing initiatives. the apron must be extended and more land must Cork and Shannon airports will no longer have to be bought also. That is crucial for the economic play second fiddle to Dublin Airport, settle for survival of the entire region. the crumbs from the table or settle for a Dublin If the funding is not there to do that, how does attitude which is “Let’s just keep shovelling sub- the Minister see this essential expansion of the sidies down to Cork and Shannon as long as they airport occurring? We are told that approxi- are quiet within the monopoly and do not give us mately \160 million is being made available and too much trouble.” there is some talk of a lease-back also — the I have more confidence in Shannon Airport Minister should explain that. We know what is and Cork Airport than that. Shannon can double needed and that \160 million is available, but I the number of passengers from 2 million at am told by some people that up to \250 million present to 4 million, which is the estimate of its may be needed for the airport to expand and be incoming chairman, Pat Shanahan. It has been viable. suggested that Cork Airport can also grow from Does the Minister have figures to show that 2.3 million passengers to over 3 million in a Cork and Shannon will be stand-alone, indepen- short period. 395 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 396

[Mr. Brennan.] opoly is not the way forward and that the way One sees a good example of why this is neces- forward is to give Shannon and Cork their own sary in flight patterns, as 90% of people who fly wings, if Members will pardon the pun, and to the UK from Ireland go from Dublin and 93% imbue and establish them with strong regional or 94% of those travelling to the Continent travel leadership. Most criticisms made to me are about through Dublin. I know of no reason why many the pace, mechanism and timing. of those people—— Mr. S. Ryan: No one disagrees with that. Mr. S. Ryan: Why is that happening? Mr. Brennan: We can tease that out as we go Mr. Brennan: ——cannot use Shannon or Cork through the Bill. Shannon and Cork Airports can airports if those airports are extensively mar- survive. The alternative vision being painted for keted. More and more people can be attracted to Shannon and Cork is that they will be nice and Shannon or Cork in the future. quiet, stay inside the monopoly, take the huge Dublin Airport passenger numbers are set to subsidies coming—— grow from the present level of 15 million per year to 30 million over the next 15 years. That is Mr. S. Ryan: It does not have to be a mon- phenomenal growth. The new Dublin Airport opoly. What about the Fianna Fa´il manifesto Authority has national and international aviation prior to the last general election? experience and will be able to focus on meeting the urgent needs of Dublin Airport, which is An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Allow the Mini- growing rapidly and needs constant attention. ster to speak without interruption. The Bill provides the necessary legislative Mr. Brennan: The alternative vision seems to framework for the restructuring and the estab- be to relegate Shannon and Cork to continual lishment of the airports on a separate basis subsidisation as long as they stay quiet and do not eventually. It provides for Aer Rianta’s mandate rock the boat. I have a bolder vision for the future to be changed by ministerial order so that it of Shannon and Cork with strong regional leader- includes a responsibility to restructure the com- ship improving those airports, doubling the num- pany on an orderly basis. On the day the order is ber of passengers, doubling the employment in made a new board will be appointed and Aer due course and putting those two airports on the Rianta will become the Dublin Airport map. Authority. The Bill was carefully put together after sub- Ms O’Sullivan: Why is Aer Lingus sacking stantial discussions which went on for over 12 people in Shannon Airport? months. It is enabling legislation and allows implementation in a two-stage process. First, the Mr. Brennan: At the end of the day, it is a mat- airport authority takes office in Dublin, Shannon ter of whether one has faith in the people of the and Cork and it immediately gets down to Shannon and Cork regions—— pressing on with statutory business plans and agreeing on a delegated basis what functions each Mr. Durkan: Or in the Government. of the three authorities can carry out in the interim period. Mr. Brennan: ——to improve and develop During that period the assets will remain with their airports into the future. I have that confi- the Dublin authority, as I explained. Assuming dence. I have seen them do so in other areas and the shareholders, that is, the Ministers for Fin- I am sure they will do so in this area. ance and Transport, are satisfied with the viability The Department of Transport produced figures of the business plans, the assets will then transfer for six airports in the UK and Europe with similar and Shannon and Cork will become fully inde- passenger traffic. It produced figures for six air- pendent and autonomous—— ports with approximately 2 million passengers per year, which is approximately the size of Shannon Mr. S. Ryan: Is the Minister not satisfied in and Cork. All six are substantially profitable. bringing in this legislation? What they have are strong boards, strong chief executives, strong chairpersons and strong Mr. Brennan: ——which will happen on or regional support, and they are growing. after 30 April 2005. Over the past 12 months as I have visited Shan- Mr. Broughan: They have big populations. non and Cork and talked to interests, trade unions and workers in Dublin, there has been Mr. Brennan: The alternative is that we are considerable support in many quarters for the supposed to turn to Shannon and Cork and say concept of what we are trying to do. Most criti- they are relegated not to have that growth. cisms are about the mechanics and the timing. Under the terms of the restructuring, both air- Most pleas, which have been made to me in the ports will begin debt free. That means a debt of past couple of weeks centre around the way we \70 million will come off Shannon and approxi- are doing this. Almost everybody prefixes their mately \120 million off Cork. At present those comments by saying they understand that mon- debts are being serviced by a rapidly growing 397 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 398

Dublin Airport. Given the contribution of Shan- period and that we will discuss with them in great non and Cork to Aer Rianta over the years, it is detail the finalisation of the business plans. entirely appropriate that, as they go their way, they are given a clean balance sheet and a good Mr. S. Ryan: Will the Minister give way to a start and that the \70 million and \120 million question? are lifted off those airports. Mr. Brennan: PricewaterhouseCoopers has Mr. Allen: That will not clear the balance also put forward a view that restructuring—— sheet. Mr. S. Ryan: I am asking a question. Mr. S. Ryan: What about Aer Rianta Inter- national? An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Minister’s 15 minutes is nearly concluded.

Mr. Brennan: It is also necessary to invest in Mr. S. Ryan: I am asking the Minister to give the infrastructure in the region and I have asked way for one question. the National Roads Authority to bring forward the development of the Galway-Shannon motor- Mr. Brennan: I would prefer to get on with it way. I have provided funds for the consultancy if the Deputy does not mind. study for the rail link into Shannon and to press on with the extension of the Shannon relief road. Mr. S. Ryan: I just want to ask one question. It is critical to continue to make the investments Where stands Aer Rianta International? in the Shannon region, which I am doing as part of that. Mr. Brennan: I will take those questions on The trade unions have made it clear they are Committee Stage. opposed to the restructuring proposals, and I acknowledged that in the Government’s dis- Mr. S. Ryan: Will we have enough time on cussions with them. Committee Stage?

Mr. Allen: As are many Government back- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Allow the Mini- benchers. ster to continue.

Mr. Brennan: The Government has, however, Mr. Brennan: I reiterate that the findings of the after lengthy discussions with the trade unions, PricewaterhouseCoopers study, which my taken on board a large number of the concerns, Department has, makes it clear that the establish- and it will continue to do so as the legislation pro- ment of three independent entities will allow gresses. To assist in addressing these concerns, we these issues to be addressed in a focused way with reached agreement in a number of important fresh ideas, a clearly defined capital pool allo- areas. A section of the Bill specifically states that cated to each airport and an autonomous there will be no diminution in the terms and con- approach pertinent to the business priorities of ditions of employment of workers in the compan- each airport. ies as they transfer to new authorities in time. Mr. S. Ryan: The Minister should read the Mr. S. Ryan: What about new workers? That entire report. applies to existing workers. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. Allow the Minister to continue. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. Mr. Brennan: I wish to mention the issue of Mr. Brennan: The second area we negotiated airport charges because they have been talked with the trade unions was to the effect that no about quite a bit. Many of the financial challenges assets would transfer to Shannon or Cork until facing the airports have been incorrectly attri- at least 30 April 2005, which would give us an buted to the restructuring process. The reality is opportunity to work out much of the detail of the — this has been written in all the studies — that financial aspects. We also agreed with the trade irrespective of the restructuring, that is, if there unions that the drawing up of detailed business was no restructuring, charges may have to plans would commence with the new authorities increase at Dublin Airport. which would get down to fleshing out the existing business. Aer Rianta is a public limited company Mr. S. Ryan: Why does the Minister not tell and it has business plans. that to Michael O’Leary?

Mr. Broughan: The Minister is a vandal who is Mr. Brennan: The increases indicated—— smashing an Irish multinational company. Mr. S. Ryan: Why does the Minister not tell Mr. Brennan: I wish to make it clear that we that to Michael O’Leary and stand up to him? have agreed with the trade unions that there will be a process of engagement during the transition An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. 399 State Airports Bill 2004: 29 June 2004. Second Stage (Resumed) 400

(Interruptions). tal investment and from existing expenditure at the airports, and have nothing whatsoever to do An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy Sean with the restructuring proposals for the airport. Ryan should resume his seat. The intention in progressing with this legis- lation and project is to ensure continued growth, Mr. S. Ryan: Senator O’Rourke was the only in particular of Shannon and Cork, to ensure that one prepared to stand up to him. they are able to grow and develop as strong inter- national airports into the future rather than con- A Deputy: And Deputy Sean Haughey. sign them to possible continual subsidisation inside a group structure. Mr. Brennan: The increases indicated by Price- waterhouseCoopers arise from pre-existing capi- Question put.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 58; Nı´l, 45.

Ta´

Ahern, Michael. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Ahern, Noel. Jacob, Joe. Andrews, Barry. Keaveney, Cecilia. Ardagh, Sea´n. Kelleher, Billy. Brady, Johnny. Kelly, Peter. Brady, Martin. Killeen, Tony. Brennan, Seamus. McDowell, Michael. Browne, John. McGuinness, John. Callanan, Joe. Martin, Michea´l. Callely, Ivor. Moynihan, Michael. Carty, John. Mulcahy, Michael. Nolan, M.J. Cassidy, Donie. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Coughlan, Mary. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Cregan, John. O’Connor, Charlie. Cullen, Martin. O’Dea, Willie. Curran, John. O’Donovan, Denis. Davern, Noel. O’Keeffe, Batt. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Malley, Fiona. Dempsey, Tony. Parlon, Tom. Dennehy, John. Power, Peter. Devins, Jimmy. Power, Sea´n. Ellis, John. Sexton, Mae. Finneran, Michael. Smith, Michael. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Treacy, Noel. Fleming, Sea´n. Wallace, Dan. Glennon, Jim. Walsh, Joe. Grealish, Noel. Wilkinson, Ollie. Hanafin, Mary. Wright, G.V. Haughey, Sea´n.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. Mitchell, Olivia. Boyle, Dan. Morgan, Arthur. Breen, Pat. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Broughan, Thomas P. Murphy, Gerard. Bruton, Richard. Naughten, Denis. Burton, Joan. Neville, Dan. Connaughton, Paul. Noonan, Michael. Costello, Joe. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Crawford, Seymour. O’Dowd, Fergus. Crowe, Sea´n. O’Shea, Brian. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Sullivan, Jan. Durkan, Bernard J. Penrose, Willie. Ferris, Martin. Rabbitte, Pat. Gilmore, Eamon. Ring, Michael. Gormley, John. Ryan, Eamon. Hayes, Tom. Ryan, Sea´n. Healy, Seamus. Sargent, Trevor. Higgins, Joe. Sherlock, Joe. Howlin, Brendan. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Lynch, Kathleen. Stanton, David. McGinley, Dinny. Upton, Mary. McGrath, Finian. Wall, Jack. McGrath, Paul.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Durkan and Broughan. 401 Commission on Electronic Voting 29 June 2004. (Further Reports) Order 2004: Motion 402

Question declared carried. necessary adding to, the comprehensive set of tests and certifications carried out to date by the State Airports Bill 2004: Referral to Select independent testing agencies. Committee. To progress this work, my Department will shortly appoint an independent project manager Minister for the Environment, Heritage and from the private sector to oversee its work pro- Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I move: gramme and ensure the speedy and efficient pres- That the Bill be referred to the Select Com- entation of outputs to the commission. The pro- mittee on Transport in accordance with Stand- ject manager will be tasked with developing an ing Order 120(1) and paragraph 1(a)(i) of the appropriate testing and validation programme in Orders of Reference of that committee. response to the commission’s concerns, oversee- ing prompt execution by relevant contractors and ensuring the work programme is implemented to Question put and agreed to. best practice standards. The Government is also requesting the com- Commission on Electronic Voting (Further mission to include in its assessment a comparative Reports) Order 2004: Motion. study of the secrecy and accuracy of the current Minister for the Environment, Heritage and paper based electoral system with the electronic Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I move: voting and counting system. In this way, the com- mission will be able to focus more closely on the That Da´il E´ ireann approves the Commission relative merits of the two systems and consider on Electronic Voting (Further Reports) Order what practical improvements and efficiencies that 2004, which was made on 24th June, 2004 under electronic voting can bring to the electoral section 22(5) of the Electoral (Amendment) process. Act 2004. I thank members of the commission for their This motion arises because of the wish expressed intensive work since its establishment in March to the Government by the Commission on Elec- this year and their continued efforts in providing tronic Voting in a letter received last week that the necessary assurance and confidence in the an order should be made under section 22(5) of electronic voting system. the Electoral (Amendment) Act 2004 to ensure and put beyond doubt the commission’s con- Mr. Allen: I am glad we have the opportunity tinued mandate. The possibility of such a request to discuss this motion this evening. I do not mean to extend the work of the commission was pro- to be confrontational but the Minister never vided for under the recent legislation and is to be seems to be able to learn from his mistakes. He effected by a Government order with the put himself in a deep political mire recently by approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas. not consulting, seeking advice or, most The Government considers that it is proper and importantly, listening when advice was given. As reasonable to accede to this precautionary a result of his reluctance to take advice and listen request from the commission. Therefore, I am to those who held different views, he was forced pleased to bring this order before the House. It into a U-turn on electronic voting which we have \ will provide further assurance and amplification since learned has cost the taxpayer 65 million, a for the commission in respect of its continuing conservative estimate. role and equip it with an explicit mandate to con- I have heard the Minister state from time to tinue to assess the secrecy and accuracy of the time that the machines in question will be used Nedap-Powervote system and issue a further and that the money spent will not be wasted report or reports for this purpose. because most of the faults lie with the software, Apart from its technical content, the order not the actual machines which he insists will be before the House is an important affirmation of used for 20 years. They are not accessible to the the work of the commission which has already blind and cannot be retro-fitted by any means I shown itself to be entirely independent. Its stand- can see. Is it seriously contended that no accessi- ing is above reproach. Moreover, the Govern- bility improvements will be made for the next 20 ment has acknowledged the importance of the years? No provision has been made for the blind commission’s initial findings and accepted its to vote in secret. Moreover, the fundamental main recommendations on further testing problem lies with the machines as a paper trail is requirements. This demonstrates that the secur- most necessary. ity, accuracy and integrity of our electoral system I thought that the Minister, in extending the are of the highest importance to it. terms of reference of the commission, would take In parallel with the continuation of the com- into account some of the content of the report mission’s work, my Department is establishing, in published by it in April. The order proposed by consultation with the commission, an extensive him endorses paragraph 4.4 of the report, namely, testing programme intended to address the con- that there needs to be a final definitive version of cerns raised by the commission with regard to the the software and all related hardware and secrecy and accuracy of the electronic voting sys- software components to be used in elections; tem. This testing regime will also provide further there needs to be a full independent review and validation of the system, building on, and where testing of the source code of the final system to 403 Commission on Electronic Voting 29 June 2004. (Further Reports) Order 2004: Motion 404

[Mr. Allen.] Commission, the constituency commission, the be used and any subsequent software modifi- Standards in Public Office Commissionand the cations will necessitate a further full system relevant section of the Department of the Envir- retest. The commission report also said there onment, Heritage and Local Government. They should be independent parallel testing of the sys- would be streamlined once and for all. The com- tem, including, where possible, in a live electoral mission would also be responsible for the intro- contest; that there should be independent end-to- duction of a safe, secure, transparent and verifi- end testing of the system; and that there should able electronic voting system. be testing and certification by a single accredited My party supports the principle of electronic body of the suitability of each new version of the voting but only if introduced, following consul- entire system for use at elections in Ireland. tation and transparency. I ask that we get Each of these points contained in paragraph 4.5 together as mature politicians to resolve this of the commission’s report has an important problem in a sensible and open fashion because I impact but not least the first and third points. do not see that the Minister’s way will resolve it. When one considers that calls are being from all In his speech he said he will shortly appoint an quarters to add a verifiable paper audit trail, this independent project manager from the private is a modification to the hardware. If the com- sector to oversee his work programme and ensure mission goes ahead and spends time and money a quick and efficient presentation output to the verifying a system with no verifiable paper audit commission. Any person appointed by the Mini- trail and one has to be added, which it does, then ster or the Government is not independent. Let it is a case of going back to square one. As the us remove the charade and get down to real busi- commission points out, there needs to be a final ness. Let us be adults and mature in our political definitive version for any testing to be meaning- approach to a system that needs to be looked at ful. Paragraph 4.4 of the report states: in a mature way. The Commission also makes the following The way forward is a statutorily based electoral observations in relation to the chosen system commission along the lines I have suggested. which, although not falling strictly within its Otherwise we will continue indefinitely with terms of reference, have a bearing on the suc- questions and answers resulting in dissatisfaction cessful implementation of the system at elec- and the undermining of confidence in the elec- tions in Ireland: toral system on the part of the public. The time has come for mature political reflection on where Under the system, voters who wish to we stand. Let us get together and make progress register an abstention by voting for no candi- in the interests of those we represent. date cannot do so in secrecy; The system does not have a voter-verifi- Mr. Gilmore: The motion seeks to extend the able audit trail (VVAT), argued by many to: mandate of the Commission on Electronic Vot- ing, an issue I raised here last week. I pointed out Reassure voters that their vote has been it was my understanding that the mandate of the correctly recorded, commission was due to expire on 30 June and Create a disincentive to the manipulation that an order was required to extend it. I am of the system by providing an external check pleased the Minister has brought forward the on accuracy, necessary motion to do so. I join in the tributes paid to the commission. It Enable recovery from a serious system was appointed in unusual circumstances and failure. given a short period in which to carry out its I could continue to read page 23 of the report in work. It worked to an incredibly strict and press- full but time does not permit. I thought, in view urised deadline. It also worked in the context of of what the commission said in its initial report, the Government wishing to use electronic voting that in any widening of the terms of reference of in the recent local and European elections. Not- the commission that issue would be put to it for withstanding those difficulties the commission its consideration. Instead the Minister continues produced a comprehensive and independent to bury his head in the sand and continues to report. It has done the country and the electoral ignore the arguments put forward by so many system a great service in the way in which it car- people. ried out its mandate. I understand the com- The Government must remove the cloak of mission is to produce a full report and that the arrogance, take its head out of the sand and com- report published in April was an interim one. I mence a consultative process with the Opposition look forward to examining the full when parties and the public to ensure the best way for- published. ward, even at this late stage. I appeal to the Mini- ster to call a truce and refer the question of elec- Mr. Cullen: There are a number of reports. It tronic voting to a statutory electoral commission, is up to the commission. It is not being confined which should be set up and which would take to publishing one report. over the role of the endless list of Government- appointed commissions dealing with elections and Mr. Gilmore: I look forward to the report or referendums in Ireland. There is the Referendum reports. When one looks at the interim report the 405 Commission on Electronic Voting 29 June 2004. (Further Reports) Order 2004: Motion 406 commission produced, one wonders what the has determined to go ahead with it. I must again Government was at in attempting to progress the caution against proceeding with a change in the electronic voting system in the way it was doing. voting system without political agreement. The commission went further in its criticisms of the system than did any Member. It was a thor- Mr. Cullen: I do not mean to interrupt the ough and comprehensive critique of a flawed Deputy, but the appointment is not being made system. for that reason. It became obvious to me that we The issue at this stage is not about who was needed within the Department a person with the right or wrong on electronic voting but how to level of expertise required to interact with the ensure public confidence in the voting system is experts I presume the commission will appoint. enhanced whatever type is used. All of us, The aim is simply to organise as efficiently as I whether on the Government or Opposition side, can the responses to the commission. The should apply our minds and energies to that issue. appointment has no implication on whether or On the Government side in particular there needs not electronic voting will introduced, it aims sim- to be a resolve that, whatever the outcome from ply to handle in-house the challenging situation the further examination to be carried out by the the commission has outlined in its recommend- commission and the final report that will ensue, ations. I perceived a gap which needed to be pro- fessionally filled. any changes in the way in which elections are conducted should only be proceeded with on the Mr. Gilmore: The Minister is the political head basis of general political consensus. The attempt of his Department and he makes the call as he which was made to move unilaterally to elec- sees it. The problem with the proposals on elec- tronic voting on the basis of a simple head count tronic voting did not relate to lack of technical in the Da´il or the Oireachtas committee was mis- expertise or project management in the Depart- taken. The lesson that needs to be learned from ment. The problem was political. With respect, this exercise is that if we want the public to have the Minister must take responsibility for that confidence in the voting system, we need to himself. ensure general agreement and confidence in the House on the system of voting, whatever type Mr. Cullen: I have done that. that may be. I am curious as to why the Department is Mr. Gilmore: The Government must take col- appointing an independent project manager to lective responsibility also. work with the commission. Why is responsibility A long time ago, I made the point that I did for appointing an independent pro- not want to see electronic voting or proposals to 11 o’clock ject manger if required not being change the way we vote becoming issues of parti- given to the commission rather than san politics. I still do not. We must return to a to the Department? It is not clear from the Mini- point at which we can, as Deputy Allen said, dis- ster’s contribution whether the independent pro- cuss electronic voting or other changes to the vot- ject manager will work to the commission or the ing system reasonably and on the basis that gen- Department. The manager was described as being eral political agreement is required. We cannot responsible for ensuring speedy and efficient consider these issues in an atmosphere in which presentation of outputs to the commission. Government unilaterally asserts its intention to proceed irrespective of what the Opposition says. Mr. Cullen: As I would not like there, to be With round 1 of the electronic voting issue behind any confusion on that, it is important to clarify us, the Minister must reassure the House that the matter. The appointment has nothing to do having considered the reports of the commission with the commission. As the commission is com- in greater detail, any steps to move matters for- pletely independent, any appointment it makes ward will be taken on the basis of general politi- will be a matter for itself. All I was doing was cal agreement. There can be no question of providing the House with the information that I Government deciding unilaterally to proceed felt an expert was needed within the Department with changes to the way in which people vote to marshal and organise all of the responses and irrespective of the criticisms and concerns being to deal efficiently with the commission. That is all raised by the Opposition. I meant. I did not want it said further down the If the Minister provides us with an assurance road that nobody was told I intended to make that this will not happen, the Labour Party will this appointment. I want interaction with the constructively participate in any discussion or commission to be efficient and knowledgeable. I examination of the reports of the commission. We would not like there to be confusion and for it to have yet to be assured that the leaf has been be said that the appointment had anything to do turned and that political consensus will be sought with the commission. It does not. rather than seeking to progress electronic voting to the disadvantage of other participants in the Mr. Gilmore: While I am glad the Minister has political process. told us, I am not reassured. The contrary is the case. The appointment by the Minister of a pro- Mr. Cullen: Does Deputy Gilmore want the ject manager on electronic voting suggests that he commission to continue its work? 407 Commission on Electronic Voting 29 June 2004. (Further Reports) Order 2004: Motion 408

Mr. Gilmore: Yes, I do. the Nedap-Powervote system, the source code — the logic behind the voting system — of which Mr. Cullen: Are we to ignore or accept the is retained as a trade secret in company vaults outcome? in Holland.

Mr. Gilmore: We must discuss—— Mr. Cullen: As it is in the case of every other country. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy should conclude. Mr. Connolly: That was a large part of the problem we had here. Mr. Gilmore: I was interrupted several times by the Minister. Mr. Cullen: I would hate to be sitting here if the Government had the source code. I do not Mr. Cullen: I was trying to be helpful. Deputy want to know what Deputy Connolly would say Gilmore asked me a question. then.

Mr. Gilmore: To answer the point, the com- Mr. Connolly: The Government had already mission reports to the House and the House spent more than \52 million on the mothballed should consider its reports with an assurance that voting machines and engaged in a \6 million mar- the Government will not proceed unilaterally. keting campaign to persuade a sceptical voting This process is no longer the property of the public of the questionable merits of the elec- Government, it is the property of the House. tronic system.

Mr. Cullen: Interesting. Mr. Cullen: The facts do not get in Deputy Connolly’s way. Mr. Gilmore: The commission reports to the House. Mr. Connolly: This has all been rendered academic by the commission’s findings while Mr. Cullen: For the record, it was the House almost \60 million has been squandered on a which appointed the Commission on Electronic Minister’s fetish for speed and automation. Voting, not the Government. Mr. Cullen: The figures keep increasing. Mr. Connolly: I wish to share time with Deputies Sargent and O´ Caola´in. Mr. Connolly: The key considerations of fair- ness, accuracy and security were discounted. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? Agreed. Mr. Cullen: Where are they coming from? Do Deputies make them up before they come into Mr. Connolly: The report of the Commission the House? on Electronic Voting has exposed the Govern- ment’s unbridled arrogance, squander-mania and Mr. Connolly: The Minister is at it again with poverty of political acumen. In particular, the his back-to-the-wall defensiveness. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government ignored all evidence to the Mr. Cullen: Pick a figure. It is a lucky dip. contrary to extol the proposed electronic system’s security and reliability. The shattering of this Mr. Connolly: It is the arrogance which has myth by the commission provides ample grounds come through during this entire debate. for the Minister to consider the wisdom of his persistence in sticking with the electronic voting Mr. Cullen: The Deputy knows the correct fig- scheme. ures and he should use them. In previous Da´il debates, I said I was not against the introduction of electronic voting per Mr. Connolly: I have only 200 seconds and I do se. Instead, I stated my preference for a system not wish to see them burnt up just like that. of electronic voting which incorporated a separ- ate and verifiable paper-based audit against Mr. Cullen: Where did Deputy Connolly get which the electronic system could be cross the \60 million sum? checked. I pointed out that public confidence in our democracy and voting system could be Mr. Connolly: An almost identical sum of \58 seriously undermined if the proposed electronic million was being excised in heartless cuts to the voting system were not seen to be reliable. With social welfare budget which inflicted untold mis- his typical disdain, the Minister refused stead- ery on the most vulnerable in our society at the fastly to entertain any constructive criticism of same time as the Minister was indulging in his pet the proposed system. He also dismissed in some- electronic voting fantasy. what disparaging terms the legitimate concerns raised by many politicians and others in recent Mr. Cullen: I assure the Deputy that it was not months and insisted instead on ramming through my pet project. 409 Commission on Electronic Voting 29 June 2004. (Further Reports) Order 2004: Motion 410

Mr. Connolly: I do not know whose it was if it be locked into having to use the Nedap system or was not the Minister’s. finding some way of fitting the round peg into a square hole. We must be prepared for whatever Mr. Allen: We know whose pet project it was. the commission decides. As matters have turned out, to a large extent it was reckless to have gone Mr. Connolly: In excess of 100,000 medical ahead with the Nedap system. I understand the cards were culled, services for the disabled were Australians considered the system but found they pruned, health care for the elderly cut and edu- could more cost effectively produce their own. cational services for the disadvantaged steadily We must be prepared for that to happen here in whittled away merely to satisfy the whim of a terms of cost effectiveness and other require- Minister who failed to read the signs before ments and specifications. embarking on an ill-advised crusade to bludgeon We require the publication of the full report of through a flawed and suspect voting system. The the commission. There was a reluctance to pub- Minister should have realised that electronic vot- lish it due to defamation issues. The Oireachtas ing was a disaster waiting to happen and that the is supposed to guard against this. We should get people would not be beguiled by his apparent on and publish the report. We should also put in acquiescence to the commission’s findings. place an independent body to analyse the con- Any further Government sallies into the realms tracts made with Nedap. There is considerable of electronic voting must involve the widest poss- suspicion that it was paid too much. When we see ible consultation with expert groups prior to the what the Australians and others have managed to adoption of a system, the hallmarks of which will acquire, it appears we should have managed to be voter verifiable paper records, open software get what we got for a lot less than what we paid. and provision for people with disabilities. Then The commission should do more than what is and only then will people’s concerns about elec- being set in place through the motion. We should tronic voting be eliminated. examine the lessons learned and put specifi- cations in place. If they result in the Nedap sys- Mr. Sargent: Like others, I pay tribute to the tem, then well and good. However, we should not courage of the Commission on Electronic Voting lock ourselves into the system without examining in stating the bald facts. It was aware this would the issue fully. not enamour it to the Government press office but it did what it had to do and deserves our Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I welcome the fact that tribute. the Government has conceded to a debate In principle, the Green Party supports the requested by the Opposition. All too often development of a voter verifiable audit trail as motions are passed without any debate in the part of an electronic voting system. However, House. bringing this about requires all-party consultation Let us recall that for no good reason the Mini- to ensure it will be above party politics. Unfortu- ster attempted to ram through fundamental nately, the Government has failed in that regard. changes in how we vote without considering the A courteous official rang me the other day to dangers and implications of such changes. inform me of this motion. He stated it was Attempts to introduce electronic voting for the required to enable the commission finish its work. recent European and local elections had to be abandoned after concerns raised by Sinn Fe´in and Mr. Cullen: I tried to telephone the Deputy other parties and interest groups were found to personally but was unable to get through to him. be valid by the commission which concluded that the secrecy and accuracy of the proposed system Mr. Sargent: I appreciate that, as I know the could not be proven. Minister had other things to do. However, the Many of the concerns raised by Sinn Fe´in and official represented him well and was very others remain to be addressed. The issue of a courteous. paper trail remains central to our concerns on the We should examine the motion more carefully proposed introduction of electronic voting. This rather than just allow the commission continue. is the critical factor in ensuring public confidence. We have learned much from its first report but Without a paper trail, voters cannot be assured rather than kick to touch, we should recognise that the choice they enter on the machine is the that transparency is something that has not yet same as that which is recorded by the machine. been established to the satisfaction of the Neither do we have any assurances that all source majority of the people. The Minister has said codes will be available for proper public scrutiny. there will be an extensive testing programme. This order under section 22(5) of the Electoral However, he does not seem to realise, no matter (Amendment) Act 2004 requests that the com- how extensive, that is not the same as having mission should make such further reports as are transparency in the system. necessary concerning the work envisaged by it We must grasp the nettle, put together actual under paragraph 4.5 of its interim report which specifications for a voting and counting system called for a final definitive version of the software and work to address them. If they happen to and all related hardware and software com- coincide with what the Nedap system can accom- ponents to be used in the State; a full indepen- modate, that is a bonus. However, we should not dent review and testing of the source code of the 411 Civil Defence 29 June 2004. Board 412

[Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in.] Adjournment Debate. final system to be used, pointing out that any sub- sequent software modification would necessitate ———— a further full system retest; independent parallel testing of the system, including, where possible, Civil Defence Board. in a live electoral context; independent end-to- Mr. McGinley: In 2002, Dr. Michael Ryan was end testing of the system; and testing and certifi- appointed chairman of the Civil Defence Board, cation by a single accredited body of the suit- However, in the short time that has passed since ability of each new version of the entire system this appointment the Minister has allowed a situa- to be used in the State. tion to develop where there appears to have been The Minister must tell the House what progress a total breakdown in communications between has been made on the commission’s recommend- his Department and the Civil Defence Board, and ations for action. For example, will he bring for- this has now resulted in the dismissal of the ward proposals for independent parallel testing of chairperson. the system in a live electoral context? Is this what Speaking at the time of Dr. Ryan’s appoint- is meant by the inclusion of the request that ment, the then Minister of State at the Depart- future reports from the commission include a ment of Defence and Government Chief Whip, comprehensive assessment of the secrecy and Deputy Brennan, stated he was delighted that accuracy of the current system for voting at elec- people of the highest calibre had agreed to serve tions? The Minister needs to properly update the on the board. It is hard to credit that things could have gone so badly wrong in the short time since House on these issues. then. We must also have concern for the possible The introduction of electronic voting cannot go long-term damage to Civil Defence in Ireland ahead until we are absolutely certain as to the that has arisen from this extraordinary situation. secrecy and accuracy of the system to be used, The Minister has questions to answer on this have in place a voter verifiable paper trail and, matter. In the first instance, I want to know why despite the Minister’s earlier response, publi- he refused to meet with the chairperson and other cation of all the source codes. I hope he will members of the Civil Defence Board. The chairp- address these matters. erson of the Civil Defence Board wrote to the Minister on 28 October 2003 and requested such Minister for the Environment, Heritage and a meeting. On 12 December 2003 a further letter Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I thank was sent to an official at the Minister’s Depart- members of the Opposition for their contri- ment with a similar request. More recently, on 24 butions. I will not rehearse all the old arguments. March last, the chairperson of the Civil Defence I am glad the commission is doing such a good Board wrote again to Minister and urged that he job and that the House has such confidence in its agree to meet a delegation at the earliest independence which was not expressed when the opportunity. commission was first set up. It has, however, pro- Organising such a meeting should have been a ved its independence to all and that it will do its straightforward matter. Only a little over a year job. ago in May 2003, the Minister signed the order The commission which was set up by the establishing the board and declared his full confi- dence in its membership. Why then did he refuse Houses of the Oireachtas has produced an to extend the basic courtesy of a meeting to the interim report which makes a number of recom- members of the Civil Defence Board? mendations. It has asked for time to produce Decentralisation is also an issue in this further reports. This is entirely a matter for it. astounding situation. I am aware that the Civil The decision to use electronic voting was not a Defence Board has grave concerns that the Government one but of the Houses of the facility selected for decentralisation to Roscrea Oireachtas. We look forward to receiving the will not meet the future needs for the develop- further reports of the commission which we will ment of Civil Defence in Ireland. The board has await. We will not pre-empt in any manner or ambitious plans for the role and expansion of form what the commission may or may not state. Civil Defence. Obviously, if the board has con- We should allow it to get on with its work and cerns with regard to the selected building, it has produce its report or reports. I share the view of an obligation to voice these concerns. However, the Government and the reports will be made in raising this matter with the Minister the chairp- through this House to the Oireachtas. We will erson of the Civil Defence Board has discovered examine them in detail. I hope we will receive that the Minister is only interested in pursuing a final report from the commission on the issue. the decision already made, regardless of whether Whatever its decision, I hope it will be accepted it meets the needs of Civil Defence. Voices of dis- by all Members of the Houses because of the ver- sent will not be tolerated. acity, independence and standing of the I wish to raise the failure of Minister to commission. implement the Civil Defence Act 2002. This per- haps has been the most contentious point in the Question put and declared carried. relationship between the Department of Defence and the Civil Defence Board. It is clear from the 413 Civil Defence 29 June 2004. Board 414

Civil Defence Act 2002 that the board must from the solicitors. This review led me to form assume a variety of important functions, and that the opinion that Dr. Ryan’s actions have ham- it does not exist simply to advise the Minister, pered the effective performance of the Civil although it does have some consultative and Defence Board’s functions pursuant to sections advisory roles. 8(1)(n) and 8(1)(o) of the Civil Defence Act It is clear that the Civil Defence Board has fun- 2002. I formed the opinion that the functioning of damental concerns that the key elements for the board was hampered by the following actions. which the board has responsibility, such as staff- Dr. Ryan contacted the owners of properties ing, finance and facilities, have been retained by adjacent to the property chosen for the Civil the Department of Defence contrary to the Civil Defence headquarters in Roscrea, to use Dr. Defence Act 2002. For example, the Minister has Ryan’s words, “to seek out any potential objec- failed to appoint members of staff to the Civil tions or difficulties which may arise”. The effect Defence Board, and the budget and estimates for, of this contact was apparently to ridicule the cho- the activities of the board have been decided, ice of Civil Defence headquarters. This led to one upon by the Minister without any consultation of the said owners contacting me through a third with the board. In failing to provide the Civil party and had the effect of undermining my Defence Board with the staff it requires to carry decision to decentralise Civil Defence to Roscrea. out its statutory functions and in retaining all con- At a Civil Defence Board meeting on 4 March trol on matters of finance and facilities, it is clear 2004, Dr. Ryan asserted that he needed to con- that the Minister has reserved to his Department sider his position because of his relationship with functions that are clearly vested in the Civil the director general and adjourned the meeting, Defence Board under the 2002 Act. having advised the board that it could not con- Civil Defence is critical to the security and pro- vene in his absence. This had the effect of ham- tection of people in the State, and is relied upon pering the effective performance by the board of for the smooth and safe running of many events its functions and, in particular, the board’s func- around the country. Civil Defence volunteers tion of advising and assisting the director general offer invaluable support to the Garda and pursuant to section 8(1)(o) of the Civil Defence Defence Forces. This support should be built Act 2002. upon, not weakened. However, in failing to meet Dr. Ryan gave an address at a Civil Defence the Civil Defence Board, in railroading through conference on 3 April 2004 in which he indicated decisions on decentralisation without any regard that he proposed to fill the post of chief Civil to concern or consultation, and in centralising Defence officer without sanction, contrary to the power in his Department, the Minister has dam- provisions of section 36(5) of the Civil Defence aged Civil Defence and must account for his Act 2002 which are as follows: actions to this House. The Board shall appoint a person who shall be a uniformed officer to be known as the Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): On 23 “Chief Civil Defence Officer” to perform such April 2004, I requested the Secretary General of ceremonial or related functions as the Board my Department to carry out an investigation of may determine and who shall hold office on the the manner in which Dr. Micheal Ryan had been terms and conditions (including terms and con- carrying out his duties as chairman of the Civil ditions relating to remuneration and allow- Defence Board. ances for expenses) that the Minister, with the On 4 May 2004, having considered the Sec- consent of the Minister for Finance, may retary General’s report, I wrote to Dr. Ryan determine. informing him that I was contemplating his removal as chairperson and as a member of the Dr. Ryan asserted that he did not infringe this Civil Defence Board pursuant to paragraph 7, section or advocate any course of action which Schedule 2, of the Civil Defence Act 2002 on the sought to infringe the above section. What Dr. basis that it might be necessary for the effective Ryan asserted, as referred to at the conference, performance of the functions of the Civil Defence was a proposal under which a part-time Civil Board. I invited him to write to me within 14 Defence officer would be appointed to accept the days, namely, by 18 May, making any represen- role of chief Civil Defence officer on a voluntary tations that he wished to make in regard to my basis at no cost to the State until such time as a proposed course of action. I undertook to con- fully sanctioned position as chief Civil Defence sider his representations in conjunction with the officer arose. report of the Secretary General before making a I therefore formed the view that, on his own final decision. Owing to Dr. Ryan’s absence admission, Dr. Ryan proposed to fulfil the post abroad on holidays and at the request of his legal of chief Civil Defence officer without sanction. It representatives, I extended the period for reply is clear from the terms of section 36(5) that the until 14 June. terms and conditions of the chief Civil Defence A reply from Dr. Ryan’s solicitors and a state- officer are for me, as Minister, to determine. If it ment prepared by Dr. Ryan were provided on 11 were proposed to appoint a chief Civil Defence June. I reviewed the report of the investigation officer on a voluntary basis, I would still have to carried out by the Secretary General of my sanction the terms and conditions of that officer’s Department and the documentation received appointment. By referring to this proposal Dr. 415 Harbours 29 June 2004. and Piers 416

[Mr. M. Smith.] Since time immemorial, the locals of the area Ryan hampered the effective performance by the and visitors — there was once a flourishing tour- board of its functions pursuant to section 8(1) in ism trade in the area but now it is based much general and section 8(1)(o) in particular. more on day trips — have always had uninterrup- I therefore decided, pursuant to powers con- ted access to these harbours. There is one unfor- ferred on me by paragraph 7 of Schedule 2 of the tunate exception, namely the harbour at Rogers- Civil Defence Act 2002, to remove Dr. Ryan as a town. As the Minister of State is very well aware, member of the Civil Defence Board, with it presents a sorry sight today in that it is the only immediate effect, as it appeared to me that his harbour on the coast that is under lock and key, removal was necessary for the effective perform- with access denied to all comers, whether they ance by the board of its functions. In this regard, come by land or sea. I wrote to Dr. Ryan on 24 June 2004 informing Fingal, as we are all aware, is probably the him of my decision. most rapidly expanding area of the country and There is no crisis within the board. I took the the uses of its harbours have changed action of removing the chairman as I consider this dramatically in recent years. Fishing is in decline, course to be in the best interests of Civil Defence unfortunately. In my youth, the harbours were nationwide. The organisation continues to serve mainly used by the thriving fishing industry and local communities in a voluntary and selfless way. there were a few leisure craft. Now the balance is I have appointed a new chairman to the Civil gradually shifting and leisure craft are becoming Defence board and I want the board to concen- dominant. However, there is still a very strong trate on the development of the organisation in fishing community and much business is done in the interests of local communities. this area. The new marinas in Malahide and I intend to continue to assist it in every way I Howth are probably a portent of developments can. I have increased the Estimate for Civil further along the coast. Defence each year since my appointment. It has It is in this context that I raise the issue of the purchased 116 ambulances, we invested \2 mill- proposed sale of Skerries and Balbriggan har- ion in protective clothing and we will continue to serve the interests of Civil Defence without fear bours. The Dublin Port Company has assured us or favour. that, as of tomorrow, it is its intention to sign off on the sale of these magnificent assets. They are Harbours and Piers. assets not only to the local community but to the wider community. It has made it patently clear Mr. Glennon: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for that it will be signing off under what it considers the opportunity to raise this very important issue. to be its present legal liability. The only thing we I also thank the Minister of State, Deputy know about the buyer is that it is not a public Browne, for taking the debate. I raise the issue in authority of any description but from the private the context of the imminent sale — tomorrow, we sector. The port authority says it has no alterna- understand — of the harbours of Balbriggan and tive. I do not agree with it but there is not much Skerries into private ownership. I understand that point arguing with it at this stage. the Ta´naiste may already have made some refer- We are here tonight at what is very much the ence to the sale in the House today. I am not 11th hour to request the Minister for Communi- party to what she said but no doubt the Minister cations, Marine and Natural Resources to acti- of State will inform us all. vate the legislative mechanism open to him under North County Dublin, or Fingal as it is more section 88(4) of the Harbours Act 1996 which commonly known and as the natives prefer to call provides for the transfer of both of these har- it, is steeped in history, particularly maritime his- bours to Fingal County Council and further pro- tory. St. Patrick landed off Skerries in the 5th vides that the subsection shall come into oper- century, the Danes landed at Lambay in the 8th ation on such a day as is fixed by order made century and, in more modern times, the gun-run- by the Minister for Communication, Marine and ning Asgard, under skipper Erskine Childers Snr., landed its cargo at Howth in the early 20th Natural Resources, with the consent of his col- century. league, the Minister for the Environment, Heri- North County Dublin, which is now an exten- tage and Local Government. sion of suburban Dublin, is blessed with a number Clare has the Burren, Killarney has its lakes, of harbours dotted along the coast, including Dublin has Phoenix Park and St. Stephen’s Howth, Rogerstown, Rush, Loughshinny, Skerr- Green. Nobody would ever contemplate the pass- ies and Balbriggan. These harbours have been ing of any of those magnificent assets into private bustling centres of trade of all descriptions. In the ownership. The people of Skerries and Balbrig- 19th century my grand-uncle sailed schooners out gan should not be asked to contemplate this in of Skerries as far as St. John’s in Newfoundland, respect of their two major natural assets. I urge Genoa in Italy, and Tangiers in Morocco. In the the Minister of State to do the right thing to 20th century, activity was mainly confined to fish- enable the local authority, the local communities ing but the occasional coal boat came over from and Balbriggan Town Council—— the coal mines of north-west England and dis- charged its cargo in the autumn to keep the home An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should con- fires burning in Skerries and Balbriggan. clude. In fairness to the staff of the House I ask 417 Health Board 29 June 2004. Services 418

Ministers and Deputies not to exceed the five mind all the red tape involved in the claim form, minutes allowed. for home helps and home carers. Then there is the issue of the serious cutbacks in the hours Minister of State at the Department of available to those in need. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Can the Minister of State justify a mileage (Mr. Browne): I am pleased to have this oppor- allowance of 19 cent per mile in 2004, with petrol tunity to inform the House that earlier today I costing \1.06 per litre, insurance very expensive made an order, with the consent of my colleague and the rise in motor tax in the last budget? I the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and have a letter from the health board dated 11 Local Government, to give effect to the transfer March 2004 advising that arrears had been paid of the harbours at Balbriggan and Skerries to Fin- for June 2000 to December 2002 and that the gal County Council. The transfer is effective from board was preparing to pay all outstanding tomorrow, 30 June 2004. The making of this order arrears for 2003. Staff with only one client do not will ensure that the harbours will be retained in qualify for any mileage payment. Payment of 19 public ownership as a resource to be enjoyed by cent per mile is promised for the journey from the public for the future. the first client to the second and so on, but not I will outline to the House the background to after the last client for the home help’s way home. this development. It has been the long-standing Mileage is paid in arrears of at least one year. policy of my Department to transfer a number of For this allowance, home helps or home carers regional harbours, including those of Skerries and must provide insurance that indemnifies the Balbriggan, to the control of the relevant local North Eastern Health Board, no matter what that authority. Section 88(4) of the Harbours Act 1996 costs. They must also include a copy of the tax provides for the transfer of both these harbours book or vehicle registration book to prove they to Fingal County Council. The Act provides that have a car available. I suggest these people are the subsection shall come into operation on such treated more like criminals than caring people. a day as is fixed by order made by me with the I tried to telephone two of the people con- consent of my colleague, the Minister for the cerned tonight, just after ten o’clock. Of course, Environment, Heritage and Local Government. they were not available. They were out putting Officials from my Department have continued clients to bed at a time when much more senior to work closely with the Department of the medical people would not be available, no matter Environment, Heritage and Local Government to what the cost. I beg the Minister of State to inter- progress our long-standing policy regarding the vene and to have these people paid through a transfer of certain regional harbours to the rel- simple system on time and at a realistic rate. evant local authorities. In the past week, my The second issue is the cutback in hours avail- Department has been facilitating discussions able to clients who need home helps or home car- involving public representatives, including ers. The North Eastern Health Board has cut Deputies Glennon, Sargent and Se´an Ryan, the hours in half in the Cavan-Monaghan area. Department of the Environment, Heritage and People who had been provided with care for five Local Government, Fingal County Council and hours per week, or one hour per day on Monday Dublin Port Company with regard to the future to Friday, have had their hours cut to two or three of the two harbours in question. The opportunity hours. Imagine someone who needed help to get now presents itself to all interested parties to out of bed each day that their family was at work. work with the county council to ensure that the Are they supposed to stay in bed two or three two harbours will prosper and provide ongoing days per week? benefits and amenity value to the communities of Some common sense and real care is needed. Balbriggan and Skerries. Only this week I was advised of the case of a sev- I am particularly pleased that this decision has erely handicapped individual. This person has been made and that we have concluded the mat- been offered five hours per week of home help ter to the satisfaction of the public representa- on returning home from respite care. A close tives. Deputy Glennon has been beating a path to friend of this person, now working in the health my door and has been ably assisted by the system in another health board region, stated that Deputies in his constituency and I am pleased the same person would get five hours per day, that, because of the transfer to Fingal County seven days per week without any question in that Council, the harbours will remain in public other region. Why should someone living in coun- ownership. It will be the responsibility of the ties Cavan or Monaghan be treated as a second council and the local communities to develop class citizen? Have our people any rights under them. the Constitution which is supposed to treat all people equally? What is the proper cost of home Health Board Services. help care? Our hospital is closed and people need Mr. Crawford: I thank the Ceann Comhairle help. It would cost much more to put people into for allowing me to raise this very important issue homes for the elderly. and I thank the Minister of State for attending at No money is available for transport to bring this late hour. There are two elements to the mat- patients to clinics elsewhere. Only today, I ter. First, there is the failure of the health board received a letter refusing a old-age pensioner who to provide adequate mileage allowance, never is receiving treatment in Cavan hospital any sup- 419 Visa 29 June 2004. Applications 420

[Mr. Crawford.] vice in Ireland, by the National Council on Age- port towards transport costs. The letter simply ing and Older People, there has been a major step states that money is not available in that health forward in the implementation of the home help board area. scheme since 1999, both in the amount of service I call on the Minister to review the finances delivered and treatment, wages and holiday available for the home support area. Family car- entitlement of the home helps themselves. ers together with home helps and home carers Upwards of \30 million has been injected into the have the potential to save the Government mil- system to insure that home helps receive a decent lions if the system was properly structured and level of pay and other benefits. I am delighted financed. Meanwhile, people should not be for- that my public record shows I was instrumental ced to sell their birthrights for what is often only in that development. In 2003, expenditure on the a short stay in a nursing home. Out of a budget home help service was over \110 million and this of more than \11 million, cutbacks should not be year funding of \113.75 has been allocated to necessary if proper administrative structures were the service. in place. I beg the Minister of State to make sure The total increase in expenditure on the home the home help and home carer structures are help service across all health board areas since revisited and refinanced. 2000 is over 113%. I emphasise this figure in the context of claims that the service is being cut Minister of State at the Department of Health back. The Government is committed to and Children (Mr. Callely): I acknowledge developing the home help service as part of a Deputy Crawford’s genuine concern in this package of community supports such as the new regard. I pay tribute to the many people involved personal care packages, which I have introduced, in the home care support services which are avail- and other schemes for older people living in the able throughout the country and who do a community. tremendous job in a front-line service. In line with the substantial increases in invest- I am concerned at some of Deputy Crawford’s ment in services over recent years, major progress comments. I will let some of them go because I has been made in enhancing the terms and con- believe they do not merit repetition. I am sure he ditions of employment of home helps employed would dissociate himself from the statement that in the health service. In 2000, around 14,000 people who do this tremendous work in a very home helps benefited from substantial pay caring way are being treated like criminals. increases and benefits, including holiday pay as well as lump sum payments under the national Mr. Crawford: That is how they feel. level agreement concluded by the Health Service Employment Agency. This agreement rep- Mr. Callely: Deputy Crawford also referred to resented a fundamental step in regularising the serious cutbacks in home help hours for those in employment status of home help personnel need. It would be a sad reflection on any of the employed by health boards. providers of home help care if they are cutting Turning to the issue of travel expenses for back on services to people in need. I do not home help personnel, in view of the role played believe that is happening. and duties performed by these people, a key Let me give an example of what may be hap- element of the 2000 agreement was the introduc- pening. A person who has had a hip replacement tion of an automatic entitlement to payment of operation might need the assistance of a home an allowance in respect of travel costs incurred help for the period of recuperation from the oper- by home helps. Such payments had traditionally ation. Statistics might show that person’s home been available to home helps on an ad hoc basis, help being cut back but only because the person with entitlements varying from region to region. is recovering and no longer needs home help. If the professional administrators in Deputy Craw- An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Minister of ford’s area are cutting back on home help hours State to conclude. It is very unfair to the staff of for those in need I would like evidence of that the House at this hour of the night when so that I can take up the matter with the people Members go well beyond the five allotted concerned. That is not what is happening. minutes on the Adjournment. I pay tribute to those involved in the delivery of service. The policy of my Department is to Mr. Callely: I will conclude by saying that there maintain older people in dignity and indepen- is a banding system that is meant to be user dence at home for as long as possible in accord- friendly. Rates apply to the distances the home ance with their wishes, to restore independence helps travel and the system should work effec- at home to those older people who become ill or tively. If not, the Deputy can bring it to my dependent and to encourage and support the care attention. of older people in their own community by fam- ily, neighbours and voluntary bodies. Home care Visa Applications. supports are vital to the implementation of this Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The case I am raising policy. is that of a 12 year old girl named Precious who Following the publication in 1998 of the report, is living on her own in Nigeria. Her parents have The Future Organisation of the Home Help Ser- been granted leave to remain in Ireland on the 421 Visa 29 June 2004. Applications 422 basis of their two Irish citizen children. The Mini- ents such as Pre’ious’s who have already been ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, whom granted leave to remain. There is nothing in Irish I regret is not present, is aware of the case to law to prevent him granting this visa, it is entirely which I am referring as I have spoken personally within his power to do so and it is beyond my to him about it and raised it on the floor of this comprehension why he has refused. House earlier this year during the debate on the I also question the anomaly in our immigration Immigration Bill. laws concerning family reunification visas. If Pre- I am raising this matter again now because cious’s parents were already citizens, refugees or there is new information requiring urgent recon- even migrant workers, this visa would have been sideration of her family reunification visa which granted long ago. Why are people granted leave the Minister has denied on two occasions. Her to remain in this State not similarly allowed to be family has just been informed that Precious has joined by their children? Is it a case of some fam- become a victim of the barbaric practice of ilies being more equal than others? female genital mutilation. I stated in my letter of There are serious questions to be asked about appeal to the Department of Justice, Equality and the constitutionality of a policy which excludes a Law Reform in December that she was in danger certain category of people from the protections of falling victim to this practice and I am unable of Article 41 based solely on the reason for their to find the words to express my sadness and anger legal residence in this country. There is no justifi- that this has now come to pass. able basis for this. It is a spurious distinction and Female genital mutilation is a horrifying pro- anyone looking at the situation honestly would cedure — I doubt the Minister would disagree agree with me. I do not understand the Minister with that. Its short-term complications can of State’s laughter, this is a serious and sad case. include shock, haemorrhage, tetanus and infec- It is too late to undo what has been done to tion. Long-term, it can lead to a multitude of Precious, but it is not too late to prevent her and complications as well as psychological effects. To her family suffering further anguish. If the Mini- my profound regret, Precious has not been able ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform does to escape this brutal procedure but, with the not act quickly, however, it will soon be too late. Minister’s permission, she would at least be able I plead once more on behalf of this child not to to obtain proper medical treatment in the com- allow this to happen. pany and comfort of her parents and her two Irish siblings. Surely this is the least she deserves after Mr. Callely: On behalf of the Minister for Jus- her ordeal. tice, Equality and Law Reform, I am pleased to Precious’s family, who are still trying to come respond to the matter raised by the Deputy. This to terms with what has happened to their debate centres around the issue of family reunifi- daughter, have also learned that the same tribal cation for families where members of the family leaders who subjected Precious to this horror are have permission to reside in the State. It is now trying to force her into a marriage with a important to clarify certain matters surrounding much older man. If she remains in Nigeria she the issue of family reunification. The Refugee will be kidnapped and forced into this marriage, Act 1996 contains provisions which oblige the there is no question about it. Her parents, now Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to living in Dublin, are sick with worry about her allow family reunification to certain family and, indeed, who would blame them? Their 12 members of refugees, including spouse and year old daughter has been violated in the cruell- dependent children. This provision operates on est way imaginable and now faces being handed the premise that since a person who has refugee over to an older man about whom they know status is unable to return to his or her own coun- absolutely nothing, including whether he will sub- try through fear of persecution, it is a reasonable ject her to further abuse or allow her to keep the and humanitarian gesture to allow other close limited contact she has had with her parents in family members to join them here. the five years since they fled the country. It was also the general policy of successive Precious’s parents have been resident in Ministers to operate a similar policy in respect of Ireland for five years and have applied for natu- persons who were given leave to remain in the ralisation. As Irish citizens, they will be entitled State on the basis of having an Irish born child. to family reunification under Irish and European It is important to bear in mind, however, that the law. The naturalisation currently takes 18 months policy was a concession and that the family in and Precious and her family simply cannot wait Ireland did not enjoy a statutory right to be that long. Naturalisation is at the Minister’s joined by the family member in question. discretion and there is no guarantee that their As Deputies on all sides of the House are application will be approved. The important thing aware, the issue of claims for leave to remain in now, however, is that the family are reunited. the State by the non-national parents of an Irish In response to Precious’s earlier applications, born child has been a matter of serious concern the Minister stated that he has stopped approving to Government for some time. A claimed right to family reunification visas in these matters as a reside in Ireland based solely on the birth of a result of the L&O decision. I remind him that child in Ireland had come to be used as a method nothing in that decision mandated that response, of attempting to circumvent normal immigration nor was anything said in that decision about par- controls. That concern extends also to the knock- 423 The 29 June 2004. Adjournment 424

[Mr. Callely.] with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law on consequences of granting permission to Reform was in the course of this debate, despite remain to the parents of Irish born children and the fact that the parents have had an opportunity the extent to which the vehicle of family reunifi- to raise it on two separate occasions prior to this. cation was being used to bring other family members into the State. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: That is not true. In light of the Supreme Court’s decision in the cases of L&O, the Government decided that the Mr. Callely: I understand that the father and separate procedure which then existed to enable mother have one other child living in Nigeria. persons to apply for residency on the sole basis Therefore, there are two children living in Nigeria of parentage of an Irish born child would no at present who have been separated from their longer apply and this procedure ended on 19 Feb- parents for over four years. The current family ruary 2003. The Government also decided that reunification application relates to the eldest the general policy of allowing such parents to be child who is now 12 years of age. It is not clear joined in the State by other family members to me why the family waited one year after would no longer apply. The visa application to obtaining residency in the State to apply for fam- which the Deputy refers falls into the latter ily reunification for their daughter. Similarly, it is category. not clear to me why no application has been It is generally the case that the Minister for Jus- made in respect of the other younger child resi- tice Equality and Law Reform does not comment dent in Nigeria or if an application will ever be on the detail of individual cases, but because the made for that child. Deputy has put information on the case to the Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: He is a male and a very House and due to the manner of his presentation, different situation pertains to him in Nigeria. it is appropriate that l reply accordingly. The parents in this case were granted leave to Mr. Callely: The visa process is predicated on remain on the basis of parentage to an Irish born credibility. On the basis of the information avail- child in 2001, having withdrawn their applications able, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law for asylum made the previous year. A visa appli- Reform is not satisfied that the information sup- cation was made in October 2002 for the purpose plied by the Deputy is credible. It is, of course, of allowing their other daughter to come and open to the parents to reapply for a visa at any reside in the State. No reference whatsoever was point and if they choose to do so they should made in this context to the threat of female geni- present information in support of the application tal mutilation and the visa application was which they consider relevant. refused. This decision was appealed and fresh information was supplied in support of this Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: That is a tragic reply. appeal to the visa appeals officer. The issue of female genital mutilation was never raised in this The Da´il adjourned at 12 midnight until 10.30 context either. The first time this issue was raised a.m. on Wednesday, 30 June 2004. 425 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 426

Written Answers. ments on the draft direction have been sought by 30 June next and I understand that ComReg ———— intends to finalise the direction shortly thereafter. The core objective of the code is to ensure end- The following are questions tabled by Members users have access to accurate and comprehensive for written response and the ministerial replies tariff information on publicly available telephone received from the Departments [unrevised] services. Service providers shall ensure that tariff information is accurate, comprehensive and Questions Nos. 1 to 15, inclusive, answered accessible. The purpose of the tariff information orally. principles is to ensure that end-users have access to transparent and up-to-date information for ser- Mobile Telephony. vices relevant to their telephony needs. 16. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for ComReg has sought a comprehensive report Communications, Marine and Natural Resources from each of the relevant mobile phone compan- if he intends to take actions in response to over- ies concerning alleged incidents of overcharging charging by companies (detail supplied) with and will decide on the appropriate action it may respect to roaming charges to customers, to take following the consideration of the reports. ensure that this overcharging is not likely to hap- ComReg is also considering further initiatives to pen in the future; and if he will make a statement provide information to consumers on the range on the matter. [19304/04] of communication services available. These steps 22. Ms McManus asked the Minister for will ensure that consumers are sufficiently Communications, Marine and Natural Resources informed to make the appropriate choices in if, in view of the wide range of schemes and pric- terms of the service or package, which will best ing options offered by mobile phone companies, suit their needs. he will consider the introduction of regulations requiring companies to simplify the cost break- Television Licence Fees. down of charges; and if he will make a statement 17. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister on the matter. [19205/04] for Communications, Marine and Natural 54. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Communi- Resources his views on the recent report from the cations, Marine and Natural Resources if, in view Comptroller and Auditor General on television of a number of disclosures of cases in which licence fee collection; if he has had discussions mobile phone companies overcharged sub- with An Post arising from this report and its spec- scribers, he has satisfied himself that adequate ific proposals to quit the television licence collec- procedures are in place to protect the interest of tion scheme; his plans to implement the the consumer in this regard; and if he will make Comptroller and Auditor General’s recommend- a statement on the matter. [19204/04] ations to revamp the scheme in view of its unpro- fitability; the alternative arrangements his 62. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Department will put in place should An Post Communications, Marine and Natural Resources decide to quit the scheme; and if he will make a if, in view of the fact that mobile phone operators statement on the matter. [19208/04] currently offer in excess of 30 different tariffs to consumers, he has plans to introduce an APR- Minister for Communications, Marine and style charge system to help consumers compare Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): As the prices; and if he will make a statement on the Deputy is aware, I recently received the report matter. [17940/04] of the Comptroller and Auditor General on the Minister for Communications, Marine and efficacy of the television licence fee collection Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I propose to process. take Questions Nos. 16, 22, 54 and 62 together. The report considers how the Department The requirements relating to mobile phone evaluates the effectiveness of the television charges and associated information are set out in licence fee collection, how the agency relation- the European Communities (Electronic ship between the Department and An Post is Communications Networks and Services) organised and the efficiency of the collection pro- (Universal Services and User’s Rights) Regu- cedures used by An Post as agent of the Minister. lations 2003, SI 308 of 2003, (USO Regulations). It identifies deficiencies in the collection process The Commission for Communications Regu- and the progress made in the past two years in lation, ComReg, has responsibility for monitoring improving the system. The report’s key recom- compliance by service providers with the afore- mendations on the management of the collection said requirements. I have no statutory function in process by my Department are that: it put in this regard. place a service level agreement with An Post; it In accordance with the regulations and follow- adopt specific or measurable targets to be ing earlier public consultation, ComReg has achieved through the contract; it should routinely issued a draft direction to operators relating to a produce estimates of the licence fee evasion rate; code of practice for tariff presentation. Com- and it should put in place a coherent set of per- 427 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 428

[Mr. D. Ahern.] to act to limit the use of mobile phones by chil- formance targets for sales, maintenance of data dren. My Department will continue to monitor base and prosecution of evaders. the scientific evidence and participate in the rel- These recommendations are being carefully evant international projects and committees. considered by my Department with a view to The Deputy may be aware that the Joint early implementation of the most useful of them. Oireachtas Committee on Communications, Mar- This is being done with the assistance of a liaison ine and Natural Resources is planning an investi- group I established in January 2003 comprised of gation of mobile telephones and any potential representatives from An Post, RTE and my adverse health effects, commencing this autumn. Department. The role of this group is to examine My Department will provide whatever assistance ways of improving the licence fee collection. The is considered necessary by the committee in its group is assisted in its work by an independent work. consultant from KPMG. In September last, An Post placed a question Ministerial Appointments. mark over its wish to continue operating the tele- 19. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for vision licence fee collection system in the context Communications, Marine and Natural Resources of its recovery strategy. However, it has since when he expects to appoint a new member to the indicated its wish to continue to manage the sys- Commission for Communication Regulation; the tem and my Department is currently negotiating procedure which will be used for making the a two year contract with the company. We will appointment; and if he will make a statement on separately consider longer term options for the the matter. [19210/04] provision of this service in the near future. Minister for Communications, Marine and Mobile Telephony. Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The Communications (Regulation) Act 2002 provides 18. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for that ComReg shall consist of at least one and not Communications, Marine and Natural Resources more than three members. I propose to fill the if he has satisfied himself that there are no position of commissioner which becomes vacant adverse health effects from mobile phones and at the end of June. The new appointee will join mobile phone antennae; the way in which he Mr. John Doherty, chairperson, and Ms Isolde intends to limit the use of mobile phones by chil- Goggin who were appointed as commissioners in dren; and if he will make a statement on the mat- December 2002. ter. [18481/04] As Minister for Communications, Marine and Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, I will appoint the new com- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): My Depart- missioner following the holding of an open com- ment maintains a watching scientific brief on petition on behalf of ComReg by the Office of health issues relating to electromagnetic energy, the Civil Service and Local Appointments Com- including those related to mobile phones and missioners. I expect this competition will be base stations. advertised shortly and the appointment will fol- In 2002 the health council of the Netherlands, low in due course after that. after a detailed evaluation of the health effects of mobile telephones, concluded that there was no Fishing Fleet Modernisation. reason to recommend that mobile telephone use 20. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for by children should be limited. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources In 2003 the national radiological protection the way in which the development of selective board of the United Kingdom, NRPB 2003, noted fishing gears is advanced which might qualify for that little had been published on childhood the proposed new European support mechanism exposure to radio frequency electromagnetic for environmentally friendly fishing methods; the fields. To examine the question of children’s sen- examples of fishing gear which his Department sitivity to non-ionising radiation, the World would propose for inclusion in any such pro- Health Organisation held an expert workshop in gramme; the way in which they could be intro- Istanbul, Turkey, earlier this month. My Depart- duced; and the benefits that might be expected ment’s chief technical adviser participated in this from their use. [19314/04] workshop where the latest research in this field was reviewed. The workshop concluded that, Minister for Communications, Marine and while children were clearly more sensitive, no Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): With a par- adverse health effects have been established ticular perspective on the large quantities of fish despite extensive, focused research. that are caught each year and discarded by EU I am satisfied that my Department is in pos- fishing vessels, and the catching of over-fished session of the most up-to-date information avail- stocks as an unwanted by-catch, the Irish Presi- able on this subject. The information indicates dency identified the need to promote and encour- that there is no demonstrated adverse health age fishermen to move towards more environ- effect from the use of mobile phones and their mentally friendly fishing, including the use of base stations, and therefore is no reason for me more selective fishing gears. The principal benefit 429 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 430 expected to flow from the development and use put the company on a long-term sustainable fin- of such gear would be a significant reduction in ancial and operational footing. The full scale of such discards, which are estimated to amount to the financial problems facing An Post became some 20 million tonnes of fish worldwide per clear to myself and my Department during the annum. second half of 2002 and to the then management Ireland’s initiative was endorsed by all member of An Post sometime later. It is important that all states and the Commission at last week’s Fisher- stakeholders fully recognise the seriousness of the ies Council. The agreed conclusions set out a financial position and the threat this represents to number of specific work assignments over the the future of the company. next two to three years in particular. There is also Once the scale of the financial difficulties provision for a more long-term commitment in became clear last summer a recovery strategy was the context of new community funding arrange- approved by the board and presented to me. The ments post-2007. strategy sets out a roadmap to return An Post to Now that the EU has prioritised this matter, profitability by 2005. It includes significant the immediate task for my Department is to restructuring and job losses amounting to undertake, in association with BIM, the Marine approximately 1,500. However, buy in from the Institute, the fishing industry and other interested unions is crucial to agreement and implemen- parties, the necessary planning and organisation tation. This has not been an easy process — of a national programme. change is not easy. Following the industrial dis- The focus of Ireland’s programme will be on pute last March, the Labour Relations Com- those fisheries of particular interest to Irish fish- mission put forward a framework to resolve the ermen and also bearing in mind the over-riding differences between management and unions. requirement to assist recovery of key whitefish Both parties are currently in talks under the aus- stock particularly. The development of this pro- pices of the Labour Relations Commission. gramme, which I hope can be significantly pro- Although these discussions were due to finish in gressed within a few months, will be informed by May, it was agreed by all parties to extend the work already under way in BIM on, for example, process given the progress, albeit slow, that was by-catch reduction measures in the Irish sea being made. The talks are continuing and while prawn fishery. This is a good example of the type some progress has been made, substantial issues of initiative that can be taken. I believe that we remain to be resolved. can in the coming months develop a range of It is in all our interests that An Post continues other projects. The timeframe for use of any to be a strong player in the Irish postal market modified gears will be determined by the dur- and continues to provide quality services to cus- ation and outcome of what are likely to be multi- tomers and sustainable employment for staff. The annual studies. recovery strategy approved by the board of An Post sets out the basis on which the company, in Postal Services. partnership with the trade unions, can move for- ward. While my Department is more than willing 21. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for to assist in any way possible to facilitate an agree- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources ment, the responsibility for agreeing and the position with regard to restructuring An Post implementing the plan rests primarily with the in view of the company’s recent announcement board, the management and unions in An Post. that it recorded operating losses of \43 million in 2003; and if he will make a statement on the Question No. 22 answered with Question matter. [19194/04] No. 16. Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Deputies will Harbours and Piers. be aware of the precarious financial situation that 23. Dr. Twomey asked the Minister for I outlined in some detail to the House on 23 Communications, Marine and Natural Resources March in regard to An Post. On top of losses in \ if he has urgent recommendations to extend pier 2001, the company has lost 60 million approxi- facilities at Kilmore Quay, County Wexford, in mately between 2002 and 2003 and has forecast view of the restricted access to Waterford har- further losses this year. Losses on this scale and bour to fishing boats and the importance of the of this duration are simply unsustainable. It is fishing industry to County Wexford. [19010/04] neither in the interests of the company nor its employees or customers that the situation Minister for Communications, Marine and remains unchecked. If the company is to return Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The harbour to profitability, it needs to be restructured. If this at Kilmore Quay is owned by Wexford County is to be a success, it is crucial that all stakeholders Council and responsibility for its development play a constructive part in this process. and maintenance rests with the local authority in The current IR issues in An Post have been the first instance. simmering for some time. The problems in An No proposals have been received from Wex- Post are long-standing and deep-seated and it is ford County Council to extend the pier facilities clear that the solution to the current issues must at Kilmore Quay, although I am aware of some 431 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 432

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Minister for Communications, Marine and local interest in such a development. My Depart- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Under the ment has, in the past, funded substantial develop- National Development Plan 2000-2006, \84.35 ment at the harbour including the provision of million is allocated for capital investment in fish- a new breakwater and dredging of the approach ery harbours infrastructure and facilities. Up to channel. Proposals for further development can the end of 2003, my Department spent \83.44 only be entertained if the owners of the facility, million under this programme. Exchequer fund- Wexford County Council, make a submission to ing of \21.14 million is allocated in respect of fish- the Department and confirm that they are pre- ery harbours and related facilities for 2004. pared to part fund the development. The only Adam’s Quay is owned by Kinsale Harbour proposal on hand dates from April 2003 when Commissioners and responsibility for its repair Wexford County Council submitted an appli- and maintenance rests with the local authority in cation for funding of \100,000 towards rock revet- the first instance. I am aware of the significance ment and maintenance works at Kilmore Quay. of Kinsale Harbour which includes Adam’s Quay as a fishery harbour and its importance to the There is no funding available in 2004 under the local economy. In 2001, the Department provided fishery harbours development programme for funding of \76,088 to Kinsale Harbour Com- works at Kilmore Quay. The question of funding missioners towards studies and investigations for the rock revetment works at Kilmore Quay will the proposed development of Adam’s Quay, cost- be addressed in the context of the amount of ing a total of \101,450. Early in 2002, Kinsale Exchequer funding available going forward and Harbour Commissioners submitted a geophysical overall national priorities. survey report and a ground investigation report As regards the question of restricted access to to my Department for consideration. The pro- Waterford Port for fishing boats, the Port of posed works include a quay development and an Waterford Company operates under the Har- ice plant building and the total cost of construc- bours Acts 1996 and 2000. Under the Acts, the tion is estimated at \1.4 million. primary function of the company is the manage- There is no funding available to my Depart- ment, control, operation and development of its ment in 2004 under the fishery harbour develop- harbour ensuring that its revenues are sufficient ment programme for work at Adam’s Quay. I to meet its expenditures. In the light of this statu- intend to promote the larger fishing harbours tory requirement the company informs me that it such as the five fishery harbour centres under the has been conducting a review of its non-core control of my Department as centres of excel- assets to determine the appropriateness of their lence where only the best facilities and best prac- retention in present circumstances. tice will become the order of the day. The company now provides its core facilities The question of funding development works at Adam’s Quay in the post-2004 period will depend for ships and goods at Belview, County Kilkenny. on the amount of funding available for works at Accordingly, the property at the North Quays is fishery harbours generally and overall national one of the company’s principal non-core assets priorities. and I am informed that the company is taking the preparatory steps necessary in order to be in a Decentralisation Programme. position to offer the property for sale. The only area in port of Waterford where restricted access 25. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Communi- exists is in the North Quays. I am advised that cations, Marine and Natural Resources the plans to decentralise his Department; if a site has been access to the North Quays is to be extended for found; the percentage of employees in his a period of one to two months on a week to week Department wishing to move; and if he will make basis pending the resolution of outstanding issues a statement on the matter. [19295/04] in the preparation of the quays for sale. I understand that investigations are ongoing 38. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for regarding the provision of alternative facilities Communications, Marine and Natural Resources within the harbour for the large trawlers that the details of surveys that have been undertaken, have used the North Wharf and Frank Cassin in regard to proposals for decentralisation, to Wharf as a refuge in bad weather. While initial establish the number of persons employed in his Department and in boards or agencies operating negotiations were facilitated by a senior official under the aegis of his Department who are willing from my Department, this is now a matter for the to move to the new locations announced by the port company and the fishermen. Minister for Finance in his Budget 2004 speech; 24. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for the results of any such survey; and if he will make Communications, Marine and Natural Resources a statement on the matter. [19223/04] if he intends to make funding available for the Minister for Communications, Marine and development of Adam’s Quay in Kinsale Har- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I propose to bour to facilitate the fishing fleet there in the near take Questions Nos. 25 and 38 together. future; and if he will make a statement on the As part of the Government’s decentralisation matter. [19300/04] plan, it is proposed to relocate my Department’s 433 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 434

Dublin-based headquarter staff and a number of held in Dublin and Drogheda from 1-3 March its agencies as follows: under the Irish Presidency of the EU, at which a number of member states indicated support for Location Approximate number of staff the Irish position. The meeting provided an opportunity for Mini- Cavan 380 (Department) sters to hold a political discussion on some infor- Clonakilty 90 (Department) mal matters in an informal setting. In a very open, Drogheda 49 (Maritime Safety Directorate wide-ranging and provocative debate there was a and Coast Guard) marked divergence of views on the issue of juris- Clonakilty 90 (BIM) dictional competence. Some member states spoke Dundalk 45 (Sustainable Energy Ireland) forcefully against any change to the country of Carrick-on-Shannon 65 (Central Fisheries Board) origin principle. Others argued strongly that broadcasting services that specifically target one As Deputies will be aware, civil servants and member state but derive from a broadcaster in State agency employees have been invited to indi- another should be subject to the regulation of the cate their interest, in order of preference, in mov- target country. Other member states indicated ing to any of the 51 decentralisation locations that while they had not adopted a position on the across 25 counties. This exercise is being carried question they were in favour of the matter being out by the Civil Service Commission using a com- explored further as part of the Commission’s puter Web-based mechanism called the central review of the directive. applications facility. After the first eight weeks of At the meeting Ireland sought from the Com- the central applications facility, the decentralis- mission a commitment that it would engage with ation implementation committee will analyse the the issue as it considers how the directive should levels of interest in the various locations and will be amended. While initially adopting a strong submit its second report next month. stance that there could be no concessions on the Until such time as the Flynn committee has issue, the Commission recognised that a number submitted its second report, there will be no of member states had serious concerns regarding reliable data available on the numbers of staff jurisdiction and undertook to engage with the rel- interested in relocating. While some informal pre- evant member states concerned. This engagement liminary surveys were conducted very shortly will take place in the context of the review of the after the Government’s announcement on decen- directive over the coming months. It is antici- tralisation, these can be best described as snap- pated that this process will result in proposals for shots of the initial reactions to the announcement. amendment of the directive, which will likely be They did not have the benefit of the up to date, brought forward by the Commission in 2005. detailed, specific information now associated with the central applications facility, nor were they Irish National Petroleum Corporation. informed by the work that has been carried out 27. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for by the Flynn committee in moving the decentra- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources lisation agenda forward. I would not, therefore, the amount paid to date to the Exchequer in attribute any validity to the outcome of such sur- respect of the sale of facilities (details supplied); veys, and suggest that it would be prudent to the balance which remains outstanding; when he await the official data emerging in the next expects that this will be paid; if he has satisfied Flynn report. himself at the rate of payments; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19222/04] Broadcasting Legislation. 26. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Minister for Communications, Marine and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): At present, it the progress that has been made on the proposed is estimated that the final net return to the inclusion in the draft new television without fron- Exchequer arising from the sale of the business tiers directive to allow national Governments and commercial assets of the Irish National Pet- regulate the advertising inserted by outside satel- roleum Corporation, INPC, will be in excess of \ \ lite broadcasters specifically for that national some 30 million. The INPC has already paid 20 advertising market. [19312/04] million to the Exchequer. In November 2003, the board of the INPC, Minister for Communications, Marine and cognisant of its obligations under the Companies Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The regu- Acts to retain sufficient assets to meet potential lation of broadcasting services specifically tar- liabilities, determined that it would not be appro- geted at one member state but are subject to the priate to make a further payment to the national regulations of another member state was Exchequer at that stage as a number of outstand- raised by Ireland in its formal submission to the ing matters have still to be resolved. EU Commission as part of the Commission’s These matters, comprising chiefly of environ- review of the television without frontiers mental claims lodged against the INPC and a con- directive. tractual dispute with a former customer, have The issue was the subject of further discussion potential financial implications and consequently at the informal meeting of broadcasting Ministers 435 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 436

[Mr. D. Ahern.] the Irish Postmasters Union having regard to con- the INPC is not currently in a position to divest sumer requirements. itself of its remaining financial assets. It has always been accepted that the total cash State Sponsored Bodies. return to the Exchequer arising from the INPC 29. Ms Burton asked the Minister for transaction would be considerably less than the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources headline sale price of US$100 million as the INPC if he will make a statement on the ESB results had, for example, to use some of the proceeds to for 2003. [19197/04] discharge the company’s debt. I am satisfied however, that the transaction Minister for Communications, Marine and represented a very positive outcome for the State, Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The year particularly having regard to the fact that the 2003 was a relatively good year for ESB as can Government also placed an obligation on the be seen from the published financial results. Cop- private owners to operate the facilities for a per- ies of the annual report and accounts have been iod of at least 15 years as a condition of the sale. laid in the Oireachtas Library. The results revealed a healthy financial posi- Industrial Relations. tion for the company with turnover of \2,342 28. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for million being up by 9% over the previous year. \ Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Both the operating profit of 354 million and pro- \ the information available to him regarding the fit after tax of 249 million were also up on the \ industrial dispute involving sub-post office previous year. Interest and taxation was 105 \ owners and An Post over bank holiday working million and a total dividend of 67.1 million was \ and other issues; his views on whether it is in the declared. The dividend will be apportioned 63.7 \ interest of customers that sub-post offices should million to the Exchequer and 3.4 million to the be open for as long a period as possible; and if he ESB employees who have a 5% stakeholding in will make a statement on the matter. [19199/04] the company. The results also revealed a year end deficit of Minister for Communications, Marine and \1.07 billion in the pension fund based on the Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The issue sur- accounting standard FRS 17 retirement benefits. rounding the obligations of postmasters to open Valuations prepared in accordance with FRS 17 their offices on a Saturday of a public holiday is require scheme assets to be recorded at market clearly a contractual matter between An Post and values at the balance sheet date. These valuations each postmaster. The recognised representative are not indicative of the long term funding posi- body for postmasters is the Irish Postmasters tion of the scheme, which is formally assessed by Union. way of triennial actuarial valuation. My understanding on the matter is that in April An actuarial valuation of the scheme was con- this year approximately 43 out of a total of 1,400, ducted as at 31 December 2003 and it disclosed postmasters closed their offices on the Saturday an actuarial deficit of \510 million. Discussions of the Easter bank holiday weekend. On 17 May on appropriate measures to address this position last, An Post was granted a High Court order are ongoing between the company and staff. ESB restraining 43 postmasters from closing their stated at its press conference that it was confident offices on the June bank holiday. The company the issue could be overcome in consultation with also obtained an injunction against the Irish Post- staff and recalled that similar difficulties had been masters Union. overcome through the company’s internal part- A court date of 14 June was set for a mention nership processes in the 1990s. of the case in which An Post maintained that all Although profit after tax was \249 million, it postmasters were the subject of contractual obli- would be easy to assume this represented excess- gations to open their premises for five and a half ive profits but this would be ignoring the com- days each week. plete picture. First, the level of profits must be However, upon a request from the Irish Post- viewed in the context of the size of the company, masters Union the hearing was adjourned for two which has fixed assets of nearly \5 billion. ESB’s weeks until 28 June last to provide parties with current level of debt stands at \1.9 billion and an opportunity to consider resolution proposals. this debt, which is set to increase over the coming The latest information I have is that the matter years, needs to be serviced. The level of profits has been adjourned for a further two weeks to also needs to be viewed in the context of the com- allow more time for negotiation. pany’s capital expenditure programme. In 2003, On customer interests, the post office network ESB invested more than \650 million in the net- has undergone restructuring in recent years on work infrastructure in Ireland. The replacement foot of recommendations made following a sub- and upgrading of almost 17,000 km of distribution stantial examination of the network. The report, network was completed and a record 77,000 new as part of its remit, considered the changing customers were connected to the system. demographic, working and retailing trends of cus- tomers. However, in the final analysis, the open- Coastal Erosion. ing hours of sub-post offices are matters to be determined between An Post management and 30. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for 437 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 438

Communications, Marine and Natural Resources given grid connections is ultimately a technical if his attention has been drawn to the concerns matter to be determined by relevant experts. expressed by a person (details supplied) at the The Commission for Energy Regulation has implications for coastal erosion of climate change; informed me that it hopes to publish a final when he expects to bring forward the proposed decision on the lifting of the moratorium this coastal zone management legislation; and if he week. I understand the general principle underly- will make a statement on the matter. [19217/04] ing this decision is that any obligations or restric- tions on wind generators seeking connections to Minister for Communications, Marine and either the transmission or the distribution systems Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): My Depart- should be necessitated by the need to protect sys- ment is aware of concerns expressed at the impli- tem stability and security. There is, therefore, not cations for coastal erosion of climate change. A a new ceiling as such. I also understand that any report was commissioned by the Environmental objections or restrictions should also be pro- Protection Agency on the general implications of portionate to the potential threat to system climate change for Ireland and my Department safety, stability and security posed by a continu- provided coastal elevation data for the coastal ation of the projected increase in wind connec- part of that study. The results of the study are tions which triggered the moratorium in the first currently being examined by the Department in place. Further modelling work may also be the context of the national coastal protection required by the system operator to ultimately strategy study initiated by the Department in determine the level of wind that can be safely and 2002 and which is currently in progress. This securely accommodated on the system. study will seek to identify the most effective On 6 May last I established the renewable means, technically, financially and environmen- energy development group. The group is chaired tally in responding to particular instances and by my Department and includes representatives types of erosion in Ireland. It is expected that from the Commission for Energy Regulation, when this study is completed a more targeted Sustainable Energy Ireland, ESB national grid approach to programme delivery will result in a and the Economic and Social Research Institute fewer number of schemes being funded per year of Ireland among others. The group will consider but will enable greater level of efficiency to be and make recommendations on the impact of achieved. renewable energy on the electricity supply system In May 2002, a recommendation towards the and any necessary actions with regard to invest- development of an integrated coastal zone man- ment including, codes, guidelines and security agement strategy was adopted by the EU Council standards. This will take into account any of Ministers for the Environment. This calls, in required action following on from the wind con- particular, on member states to carry out a stock nection moratorium. take of the laws, institutions and actors that impact the coastal zone and to draw up a national State Sponsored Bodies. strategy or strategies for integrated coastal zone management. The recommendation also estab- 32. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for lishes a number of broad principles on which such Communications, Marine and Natural Resources strategies should be based. A report on the action the steps his Department is taking to resolve the taken has to be submitted to the European Com- impasse within the ESB with regard to the estab- mission by February 2006. lishment of Eirgrid; and if the industrial relations My Department has indicated its intention to difficulties that have been encountered relate publish during 2004 legislative proposals for the exclusively to executives within the proposed new consolidation and modernisation of the law on company or to all the staff due to be trans- foreshore administration and to support the ferred. [19306/04] development and operation of more integrated 71. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for approaches to the management of coastal areas Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and their resources. the position with regard to establishing an ESB national grid as an entirely separate entity; the Alternative Energy Projects. reason for the failure to make progress on this 31. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Communi- issue to date; and if he will make a statement on cations, Marine and Natural Resources if, in view the matter. [19211/04] of the lifting of the moratorium on new connec- Minister for Communications, Marine and tions to wind farms and the recent advances in Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I propose to wind turbine technology which should overcome take Questions Nos. 32 and 71 together. many of the network concerns expressed by our transmission operator, the level of wind capacity As the Deputies may be aware, the European that he now believes could be given grid connec- Communities (Internal Market in Electricity) tions. [19309/04] Regulations 2000, S.I. 445 of 2000, made in December 2000, provided for the separation of Minister for Communications, Marine and the operation of the transmission system from the Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The question rest of ESB into a newly formed independent of the level of wind capacity which can safely be State owned company. This separate State com- 439 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 440

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Minister for Communications, Marine and pany, Eirgrid, was formally incorporated in Feb- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): As the ruary 2001 but as yet it is not discharging the Deputy is aware, under the provisions of the functions of transmission system operator. Postal and Telecommunications Services Act, The delay in establishing Eirgrid as a fully func- 1983, An Post is a commercial State body with a tioning and operational entity is attributable to statutory obligation to be financially viable. various problems and disputes which arose in the Toward that end, the board and management of course of the complex negotiations ensuing since the company are obliged to tackle the current the making of the regulations. However, despite loss-making situation and return the company to the delay, the Eirgrid model, once in place, will profitability. In October last year, the board of be effective and beneficial to all players in the An Post presented me with a recovery plan for market and I therefore announced my intention, the company detailing a change management pro- on 10 March 2004 having reviewed the situation, gramme and cost saving measures aimed at turn- to retain Eirgrid as the independent TSO. ing the company around. The recovery plan is In order for Eirgrid to be able to operate the subject to union agreement and negotiations, in transmission system, the governing regulations this regard, are ongoing. provided that an agreement was to be made With regard to the non-commercial aspects of between Eirgrid and ESB, which would set out the post office network, in 2001 the Government, the respective roles and responsibilities as with the approval of the EU Commission, agreed between Eirgrid, in its capacity as TSO, and ESB, an equity injection of \12.7 million to An Post in its capacity as owner of the transmission to ensure that a network of post offices could be network. maintained throughout the State delivering a The regulations also provided that the practical range of services. In addition, the company itself arrangements regarding the transfer of staff, has recognised that the best way to secure the rights, liabilities and contracts from ESB to Eirg- future of post offices is to increase footfall by rid be put in place in the form of a transfer offering a range of services geared towards con- scheme. sumer needs. Significant progress has been made My Department has no direct role in the mak- with utility bill payments and banking services ing of the infrastructure agreement or transfer now offered via the post office. Clearly the avail- scheme. These are a matter for the companies ability of attractive consumer products is the best involved to agree, with the negotiation of both way of securing a sustainable future for the post overseen by the Commission for Energy office network. Regulation. On the letterpost side, the company continues Neither the infrastructure agreement nor the to enjoy a monopoly position in a substantial part transfer scheme is yet in place. It has been diffi- of the postal market in order to compensate for cult to bring the process of operationally estab- non commercial postal services. However, this lishing Eirgrid to a satisfactory conclusion in the monopoly will be reduced in 2006 and may be absence of a chief executive officer of the com- gone altogether by the end of this decade. This pany being in situ which has been delayed only emphasises the need to restructure the cost through contractual difficulties. base particularly in letterpost and this has been I hope these contractual difficulties have been recognised by the major stakeholders as evi- resolved and I can advise the Deputies that a denced by the continuing discussions under the revised draft CEO contract is currently with the auspices of the Labour Relations Commission. company for determination subject to my consent Offering a high quality, competitively priced ser- and that of the Minister for Finance. I am disap- vice is the only realistic strategy for the letterpost pointed that three years after its formal incorpor- division of An Post. ation as a company, Eirgrid is still not up and An ongoing subvention by the State does not running as the TSO and, as shareholder, I wish to represent a long-term viable solution for An Post. see a speedy resolution to the outstanding issues. My Department is working closely with the com- Broadcasting Legislation. pany to facilitate progress. I expect all parties to 34. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for the negotiations to use their best endeavours to Communications, Marine and Natural Resources bring this process to a speedy conclusion and to if he will consider amending the Radio and Tele- expedite the operational establishment of the vision Act 1988 in order to clarify the rights of company. independent radio stations to broadcast legit- 33. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for imate news stories on the day prior to an election Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and to ensure that radio stations are not subjected if his attention has been drawn to the claim made to undue pressure to drop stories; and if he will by a person (details supplied) that the Govern- make a statement on the matter. [19216/04] ment has given the kiss of death to social services Minister for Communications, Marine and provided by An Post by refusing to address the Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I do not pro- urgent need for State financial support for the pose to bring forward amending legislation on company; his views on the claims made; and if he this matter. Broadcasting legislation imposes gen- will make a statement on the matter. [19200/04] eral obligations on broadcasters in relation to 441 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 442 news and current affairs programming. These west and north west coast; and if he will make a legislative provisions require the broadcaster to statement on the matter. [19296/04] present such programming in an objective, impar- tial and fair manner. The legislation does not set Minister for Communications, Marine and out in detail what a broadcaster may or may not Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The agree- do on the day prior to an election. I am strongly ment reached at last week’s Fisheries Council sets of the view that primary legislation is not the fishing effort limits on the fleets of the relevant place for dealing with such detail but that rather member states in various areas in western waters. it should be addressed through codes and guide- These limits were set on the basis of fishing lines administered by the Broadcasting Com- activity by those fleets over the period 1998-2002, mission of Ireland as it is at present. inclusive. Accordingly, as future effort levels are capped by this reference period, the question of The Broadcasting Commission of Ireland is a increased fishing effort by any fleet either inside statutory independent body established under or outside the new Irish Box area does not arise. section 3(1) of the Radio and Television Act 1988 and section 10(1) of the Broadcasting Act 2001. The framework for establishing these effort Section 9(3) of the 1988 Act provides that the limits was agreed by Fisheries Ministers last commission shall draw up, and may from time to October and the finalisation of the effort ceilings time as occasion requires, revise a code governing last week was in accordance with this agreed standards and practice for any matter specified in framework. section 9(1) and 9(2) of the Act which deal with The Irish industry has broadly welcomed the fairness and impartiality. The guidelines issued agreement, particularly for the new Irish box area recently were in line with those issued over the to the west and south of Ireland where most of past decade by the commission and its prede- the Irish whitefish catch is taken — about two- cessor, the Independent Radio and Television thirds of the total. The protection of fish stocks Commission, in respect of previous elections and in this most sensitive and vulnerable area was referendums. therefore Ireland’s main priority and I very much welcome and appreciate the industry’s support Hazardous Waste. for the measures now in place for this biologically sensitive area. 35. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Overall, fishing effort limits agreed last week Communications, Marine and Natural Resources provide the necessary protection for fish stocks in the position with regard to the Silvermines tailing waters around Ireland, both inside and outside pond site; and when he expects remediation the new Irish box. measures to take place which will prevent further toxic dust clouds and polluted leachate coming Offshore Exploration. from the site. [19307/04] 37. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Minister for Communications, Marine and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The Depart- the information available to his Department ment met with Mogul of Ireland Limited on 24 regarding the proposed development of the Cor- May last concerning the company’s proposed rib gas field; and if he will make a statement on remediation plans for the tailings pond and other the matter. [19214/04] sites at Silvermines, County Tipperary. More detailed plans are expected shortly from the com- Minister for Communications, Marine and pany, and these will set out provisional time Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): All relevant frames for commencement of remediation works. approvals/consents from my Department were Mogul also met a sub-committee of Silvermines issued in early 2002 in respect of the proposed Environmental Action Group with responsibility development of the Corrib gas field. These for Gortmore tailings pond on 28 May 2004. approvals/consents include: plan of development approval dated 15 April 2002 under the Pet- There is an emergency action plan operated by roleum and Other Minerals Development Act Mogul and the local authority to deal with dust 1960; consent to construct a pipeline dated 15 blows and other problems which may occur at the April 2002 under the Gas Act 1976, as amended; tailings pond. The Department has not received consent under section 5 of the Continental Shelf any notification of occurrences of serious dust Act 1968, as amended, dated 15 April 2002; fore- blows or escapes of polluted leachate at the site in shore licence approval 17 May 2002 under the recent years. The last recorded serious dust blow Foreshore Act 1933, as amended. occurred in the mid 1980’s. Mayo County Council granted planning per- mission on 30 April 2004 for an onshore natural Fisheries Protection. gas terminal at Bellanaboy, County Mayo. The 36. Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for decision by the council was appealed to An Bord Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Pleana´la on 21 May 2004 by 14 parties, including if he has satisfied himself that fishing efforts by an appeal on some of the conditions by Shell E & foreign trawlers will not increase in the fishing P Ireland Limited. Shell has until the 30 June area, outside of the new Irish box area, but in the 2004 to provide a response to An Bord Pleana´la area formerly referred to as the Irish box on the on the 13 other appeals lodged. 443 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 444

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Telecommunications Services. Under section 126 (2)(a) of the Planning and 41. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Development Act 2000 the statutory objective of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources An Bord Pleana´la is to ensure that every appeal the level of co-operation which exists between his or referral is determined within a period of 18 Department and local authorities in relation to weeks beginning on the date of receipt by the the development of the broadband telecom- board of the appeal or referral. munications project. [19273/04] Question No. 38 answered with Question 43. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for No. 25. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he will liaise with the Minister for the Envir- Mobile Telephony. onment, Heritage and Local Government with a view to formulating a co-ordinated approach to 39. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for the development of the broadband project. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources [19274/04] the position with regard to encouraging compe- tition in the mobile phone market here; if he has 44. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Communi- plans to request ComReg to implement new poli- cations, Marine and Natural Resources the cies calling for lower prices for mobile and fixed amount which has been spent to date on the line telephone bills; and if he will make a state- broadband project. [19277/04] ment on the matter. [19202/04] 48. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Minister for Communications, Marine and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I refer the the towns which have no plans for the roll out of Deputy to my reply to Question No. 68 of 12 broadband; and if he will make a statement on May 2004. the matter. [19288/04] 50. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for Marine Institute. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources 40. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for when he estimates that the broadband project will Communications, Marine and Natural Resources be completed. [19276/04] his views on the findings of the report of a person 64. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for (details supplied), commissioned by the Marine Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Institute, which was critical of marine policy and the metropolitan area networks that are now in which, in particular, criticised the dual regulatory operation; and the initial figures for the level and and developmental role of his Department as nature of traffic on the fibre optic rings. inappropriate; and if he will make a statement on [19310/04] the matter. [19221/04] 76. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for Minister for Communications, Marine and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The Marine the average costs charged by local authorities on Institute is involved in the early stages of prepar- the installation of the broadband system. ing a marine research and innovation strategy for [19275/04] 2005 — 2010. The strategy is to be developed Minister for Communications, Marine and over the next 12 months and the approach being Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I propose to adopted includes, inter alia, extensive consul- take Questions Nos. 41, 43, 44, 48, 50, 64 and 76 tation with stake holders on various aspects of together. research and innovation in the marine sector. To Under the NDP 2000-2006, an indicative \200 support the development of the strategy, the Mar- million, part-funded by the ERDF, was set aside ine Institute commissioned a study to evaluate for regional broadband infrastructure projects. Of the socio-economic contribution of marine- this funding \64 million has been invested in the related activities to the Irish economy. The deliv- construction of the metropolitan area fibre net- erables from the study, which is being carried out works in 19 towns and cities, in association with by Peter Bacon and Associates, include a review the local authorities, who received grant assist- of relevant policy — existing and future — at ance of 90%. national and EU level. I am advised that the Officials of my Department have worked status of the material referred to by the Deputy closely with other Departments, agencies and the has been misrepresented as a draft report. In fact local authorities, to ensure that the projects have it consisted of working papers from an initial con- been completed on time, within budget and with sultation workshop, organised by the consultant, minimal delay or disruption. Full operational designed to stimulate debate among attendees. details of the individual projects, including con- The study will take cognisance of the contri- struction costs for each of the MANs, together butions of the participants to the workshop. with maps and other information, are given on Accordingly, no statement is warranted as neces- my Department’s website www.dcmnr.ie. Thir- sary at this stage. teen MANs are now in a position to offer interim 445 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 446 access and full details of these are also on the a four-day week basis. Fishing is only allowed website. during daylight hours and is confined to the area Government funding has been secured until within the six-mile limit. My Department has also 2007 for a range of broadband roll-out projects. introduced the wild salmon and sea trout tagging In December last I announced the next phase of scheme regulations, which limits the total allow- the broadband action plan, which includes the able commercial catch of salmon. roll-out of broadband to more than 90 towns with On the advice of the National Salmon Com- a population of 1,500 and over and the group mission and the National Fisheries Management broadband scheme for smaller towns and rural Executive, I set a total allowable commercial communities. Design details for the town MANs catch of 161,951 fish for the 2004 season. This are currently being worked on, and work will represented a reduction of 20,049 fish or 11% cut commence on 41 of these in the autumn. The on the total allowable commercial catch for 2003 - Management Services Entity, MSE, is the inde- 182,000 fish. This total allowable catch is consist- pendent body that will manage, market and main- ent with the Salmon Commission’s recommend- tain the MANs. Earlier today I announced the ation of last year that a three-year strategy should award of the MSE contract to eNet. Details of be put in place aimed at reaching the scientific eNet’s product offerings and costs of access will advice on precautionary catch limits over the per- be posted on eNet’s website in the coming days. iod 2003-05. The current strategy of developing a sus- Fisheries Protection. tainable commercial and recreational salmon fish- 42. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Communi- ery through aligning catches on the scientific cations, Marine and Natural Resources if his advice by next year holds out the strong prospect Department has received representations from of a recovery of stocks and of a long term sus- the North Atlantic Salmon Conservation Organ- tainable fishery for both sectors. isation with regard to the management of wild There are serious reservations about a national salmon stocks here and our continued use of off buy-out as a cost efficient workable instrument. shore driftnetting of wild salmon stocks; and if It is clear that buy-out is most attractive to those any organisations have made offers to his Depart- who take few salmon. It is not necessarily an ment to share the cost of any buy-out scheme for effective means of achieving the shared objective driftnetting licences or if the Government has of a restoration of salmon stocks. For some time considered seeking outside financial assistance now, the Government has ruled out buy-out as for such a buy-out. [19308/04] an effective means of achieving the restoration of salmon stocks and instead promoted the appli- Minister for Communications, Marine and cation of quotas on commercial fishing and bag Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): As I pre- limits on angling to achieve catch reductions as viously advised the House in my reply to Parlia- the best instrument available to achieve this mentary Question No. 172 of 31 March 2004, my objective. Department has received a number of items of As a result, I have no plans to introduce pro- correspondence from the North Atlantic Salmon posals to purchase commercial salmon fishing Fund (NASF) in recent years. The most recent licences but I intend to keep the matter under representation from NASF was received within review and I am open to any relevant proposals the past week and basically re-iterates the organ- in the context of the policy outlined. isation’s general concerns about the netting of wild salmon by Irish commercial fishermen. Questions Nos. 43 and 44 answered with Ques- Neither the North Atlantic Salmon Fund nor any tion No. 41. other organisation has made formal offers to my Department to share the cost of a buy-out scheme Decentralisation Programme. for driftnetting licences. 45. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for The overriding objective of the Government is Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to preserve the salmon resource in its own right if his attention has been drawn to the concerns and for the coastal and rural communities that it expressed by staff of the Central Fisheries Board helps to support. The economic goals for a sus- at the proposal to relocate the board to Carrick- tainable commercial salmon fishery based on on-Shannon; if no members of the staff have indi- quality and value rather than volume and the cated a wish to relocate; and if he will make a development of salmon angling as an important statement on the matter. [19224/04] tourism product are both fully compatible with the primary objective. Minister for Communications, Marine and Since publication of the salmon management Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The proposal task force report in 1996, my Department has to relocate the Central Fisheries Board to Car- introduced a range of conservation measures rick-on-Shannon is being pursued as part of the which have seen considerable advancements Government’s wider decentralisation programme made in salmon policy and in particular the man- and as such will be undertaken in accordance with agement of the drift net salmon fishery. As part the proposals of the decentralisation implemen- of these measures, the drift net season is now con- tation group’s report. All public servants, includ- fined to a two-month period in June and July on ing the Central Fisheries Board staff, have an 447 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 448

[Mr. D. Ahern.] advance approval and must not conflict with legal opportunity to apply through the central appli- or fleet policy obligations. cations facility, CAF, on a voluntary basis for the Sea fishing boat licensing policy permits the use decentralised location of their choice and to rank of a maximum of 4,474 gross tonnes of the their preferences for different locations. capacity formerly associated with the vessel Information gathered through the CAF during removed from the fleet, subject to approval. I this first phase until 8 July 2004 will be analysed understand the Independent Licensing Authority by the Civil Service Commission and passed to has to date approved the assignment of specified the decentralisation implementation group, pro- quantities of that capacity to other vessel owners viding it with the information required for the in the pelagic segment of the fleet for use as next phase of the implementation plan. I under- replacement capacity for the purpose of licensing stand relevant information will be made available of larger replacement vessels. to individual Departments and agencies and staff interests, after which it will be possible to make Broadcasting Legislation. an initial determination of the numbers of staff 47. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for interested in relocating to various locations, Communications, Marine and Natural Resources including Carrick-on-Shannon. the main features of the RTE charter recently I am advised that management of the Central published by him; the way in which it is intended Fisheries Board has been as pro-active and sup- to monitor compliance with the charter; and if he portive as possible in helping staff to consider all will make a statement on the matter. [19215/04] the options open to them recognising that the decision is ultimately a matter for each individual, Minister for Communications, Marine and having regard to his or her own circumstances Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The purpose and the entirely voluntary nature of the project. of the charter is to provide an understanding to the people of Ireland of what is expected of RTE State Subsidies. in return for the significant public funds provided to RTE from the proceeds of the television 46. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for licence fee. Broadcasting legislation requires Communications, Marine and Natural Resources RTE’s radio and television services to have the if an estimate has been made by his Department character of a public service, to be offered free to of the direct and indirect subsidies provided by air and to be universally available, where practi- the State to a sea vessel (details supplied); if his cable, to the whole community on the island of attention has been drawn to the claim by the Ireland. chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, Building on RTE’s statutory remit, the charter Deputy Perry, that these subsidies may have been is a statement of principles which clarifies what is worth up to \100 million; his views on this assess- expected of RTE as the national public service ment; and if he will make a statement on the mat- broadcaster, including RTE’s accountability to its ter. [19220/04] audience. The main guiding principles of the charter deal with RTE’s public service remit, Minister for Communications, Marine and regional emphasis, children, Irish language pro- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): No grant aid gramming, social inclusion, physical, sensory and from the State or the European Union was paid intellectual disability and gender. In addition, towards the vessel referred to by the Deputy. The RTE has made commitments in respect of the refrigerated sea water, RSW, segment of the Irish provision of services and accountability. fleet, in which the vessel concerned is licensed I will keep the charter under review so that it and registered, has been excluded from grant aid continues to reflect change in the nature of support for renewal and modernisation for many society and changes in the broadcasting envir- years. I am not aware that the company con- onment. A formal review of the charter will be cerned has received any assistance that could be carried out in five years. The full text of the char- described as an indirect subsidy. ter is available on my Department’s website at By way of background, the European Com- www.dcmnr.gov.ie in both English and Irish. mission’s agreement to facilitate the introduction into the fleet of the vessel referred to was subject Question No. 48 answered with Question to resolution of outstanding over-capacity engine No. 41. power in the Irish pelagic fleet segment. To address this long-standing problem, which was Harbours and Piers. not caused by the company concerned, the com- pany removed its other vessel from the Irish and 49. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for EU registers and its engine power capacity was Communications, Marine and Natural Resources permanently deleted. The tonnage capacity of the the planned new harbour development in Balti- pelagic segment was already within the EU more Harbour, County Cork; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19301/04] capacity limit and, in the circumstances, the com- pany was allowed to retain the tonnage capacity Minister for Communications, Marine and of the vessel removed from the Irish fleet. The Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Officials from use of this capacity is, however, subject to my Department and the Department of the 449 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 450

Environment, Heritage and Local Government the role his Department has with regard to the are considering the modalities for the transfer of introduction of competition in the electricity gen- Baltimore Harbour and certain other harbours eration market here; if the Government has operating under the Harbours Act 1946 to local reached an agreement with the board of the ESB authority ownership. I expect this work will take and the relevant trade unions such that the com- a number of months to come to fruition since it pany will be able to retain a certain percentage involves, inter alia, the undertaking of an audit of power generation within the market here; the of the assets and liabilities of the harbours to be effect which the electricity market liberalisation transferred. As part of that audit process, plans directive, due for transposition in July 2004, will for the further development of the harbours and have on such an agreement; if reports have been the funding of such development will be taken carried out in regard to this matter; and if so, if into account. In the meantime, engineers from my he will make them available to the relevant oppo- Department are visiting the regional harbours, sition spokespersons. [18124/04] including Baltimore Harbour, to identify works which might be undertaken to protect the public Minister for Communications, Marine and and the fabric of the harbours with the limited Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The February resources available to my Department in 2004. 2000 tripartite agreement between the Govern- ment, the ESB and the ESB group of unions recognised that the issue of the ESB’s dominance Question No. 50 answered with Question in the electricity market must be addressed by No. 41. willingly facilitating real and substantive compe- tition. Against this backdrop, the ESB has pub- Industrial Relations. licly stated on several occasions that it is commit- 51. Ms Burton asked the Minister for ted to reducing its share of the generation market Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to 60% by 2005. the information available to him regarding the By virtue of the Electricity Regulation Act industrial relations situation in the ESB and the 1999 and the European Communities (Internal threat of industrial action that may lead to elec- Market in Electricity) Regulations 2000, a new tricity blackouts; and if he will make a statement regulatory regime, under the oversight of the on the matter. [19196/04] Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, has been established in Ireland, designed to facilitate Minister for Communications, Marine and and stimulate properly regulated and fair compe- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The indus- tition. These two legal instruments implement trial relations situation in the ESB is a matter to EU electricity directive 96/92/EC concerning be dealt with in accordance with the established common rules for the internal market in industrial relations procedures within the com- electricity. pany and is not one in which I have a function. As the Deputy will be aware, a ballot was under- The Electricity Regulation Act 1999 provided taken by the ESB group of unions in May 2004, for the introduction of limited competition in the electricity market and for the establishment of which provided a mandate for industrial action the CER. Under the Act, any party can apply to in circumstances where the company proposes or the CER for the necessary authorisations to build proceeds with structural or organisational change new plan, a licence to generate and-or a licence which impacts on staff without prior agreement. to supply. The first phase of liberalisation was On foot of this mandate, the group of unions held introduced with effect from 19 February 2000, in a meeting yesterday to consider its position in the accordance with EU requirements. Ireland light of developments on a range of industrial exceeded those requirements by opening 31% of relations issues. While no decision was taken at the market, whereby 400 or more of the largest that meeting, a further meeting of the group of electricity customers were enabled to choose unions is scheduled for next Friday, 2 July 2004. their supplier. All customers also became free to In a related development, the ESB Officers purchase electricity from any “green” or com- Association, ESBOA, served notice of industrial bined heat and power, CHP, licensed supplier action on the company last Friday, 25 June 2004. from February 2000 and April 2001 respectively. This will take effect on 12 July 2004 and the union Further market opening took place on 19 Feb- has indicated there will be a withdrawal of labour ruary 2002 when 40% of the electricity market, on that date. I view all of these developments representing 1,600 business customers, became with great concern and expect that the ESB man- free to shop around for keener prices in the com- agement and unions will use all the industrial petitive market. The latest market opening on 19 relations mechanisms available to them to ensure February last extended this from 40% to 56%. the situation does not escalate. In the meantime, All large and many small and medium-sized busi- I have asked my officials to keep me fully briefed nesses are eligible to buy their electricity from on the situation as it develops. suppliers licensed by the CER. The full liberalis- ation of the electricity market on 19 February Electricity Generation. 2005 is provided for in the Electricity Regulation 52. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Act 1999 (Eligible Customer) (Consumption of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Electricity) Order 2003. Every single customer 451 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 452

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Postal Services. will then be eligible to source their electricity 55. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for from any licensed supplier and the entire market Communications, Marine and Natural Resources becomes contestable. This date is well in advance the information available to him on the pilot sur- on the July 2007 deadline for full liberalisation vey carried out by An Post on the possible use of set down in the recently adopted EU electricity roadside post boxes; and if he will make a state- directive 2003/54/EC. This Directive makes no ment on the matter. [19201/04] provision on power generation retention within the market here. Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Following the decision of the Commission for Communications Harbours and Piers. Regulation last year that postal customers cannot 53. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for be forced to accept roadside letter boxes, An Post Communications, Marine and Natural Resources ran a pilot programme in the Sligo mail area from if his attention has been drawn to the serious pub- October 2003 to January 2004 to assess the extent lic concern at the implications of the proposed to which households would accept roadside deliv- sale of Balbriggan and Skerries Harbours; if his ery boxes on a voluntary basis. Department has made an assessment of the impli- The company undertook a comprehensive pro- cations of the sale for marine policy; and if he will gramme of engagement with customers informing make a statement on the matter. [19212/04] them of the pilot scheme and to encourage their participation on a purely voluntary basis. Despite Minister for Communications, Marine and this extensive programme, take-up was very low, Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I am aware with only 32% of the targeted customers, those of the concerns expressed regarding the decision with letterboxes more than 10 metres from the by Dublin Port Company to place Balbriggan public road, volunteering to take a delivery box. Harbour and Skerries Harbour on the open mar- Delivery costs are one of the biggest operational ket to be sold by public tender. I am informed by costs to An Post and it was anticipated that the Dublin Port Company that it has decided to offer introduction of roadside delivery could signifi- the two harbours for sale because they constitute cantly reduce these costs. a burden on the users of Dublin Port as the com- However, on the basis of the results of the pany derives no revenue whatsoever from them. pilot, the financial analysis indicates that the cost My Department has confirmed that the decision of installing the boxes would exceed the savings of the company to offer the harbours for sale is generated. Accordingly, I understand that the not incompatible with its commercial remit under board of An Post decided that the roadside boxes will not be installed in the pilot area and the cus- the Harbours Act 1996. The two harbours are tomers who volunteered were informed of this non-core assets of the company, the principal decision. The company is currently considering object of which is to provide facilities and services the implications of the results for its programme for ships, goods and passengers. of reducing delivery costs nationally. It is the long-standing policy of my Department that these harbours should be transferred to local Mobile Telephony. control. The Harbours Act 1996 provides for the transfer of the two harbours to Fingal County 56. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Council. However, the order to commence the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the position in regard to his plans to reduce roam- relevant provision of the Act has never been ing charges for mobile phone users in Border made. The principal reason the transfer has not areas whose phones may stray on to UK net- taken place is that Fingal County Council states works; if his attention has been drawn to Com- it is not in a position to agree to the transfer in Reg’s response to his recent policy directive on the absence of a commitment to Exchequer fund- the issue that it can only be dealt with on a pan- \ ing of 10 million for remedial and maintenance European basis; and if he will make a statement works on the harbours. on the matter. [19203/04] As the deadline for the conclusion of the ten- der process by Dublin Port Company approaches, Minister for Communications, Marine and my Department is facilitating discussions involv- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I am aware of ComReg’s work on the issue of international ing public representatives, the Department of the roaming and acknowledge their efforts and that Environment, Heritage and Local Government, of some operators in addressing this issue to date, Fingal County Council and Dublin Port Com- but it is not simply a matter of mobile operators pany. The focus of these discussions is on explor- introducing all-Ireland tariffs, although this in ing whether there exists an alternative approach itself is welcome. The level of such tariffs and the to the sale of the two harbours on the open terms and conditions attached also need to be market. examined in order to ensure that consumers are getting a fair deal and value for money. Question No. 54 answered with Question The regulation of call roaming charges comes No. 16. under ComReg’s jurisdiction, but as Minister for 453 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 454

Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, On the enforcement of water safety legislation I have responsibility for overall telecommunica- around our coastline, the Coastguard, officers of tions policy. Moreover, as a Minister from a Bor- the Maritime Safety Directorate, the Garda and der county, I am aware of the effect of high the public all have a major role to play. mobile call roaming charges on local people and To assist in this process two Coastguard vessels local businesses and have expressed my dissatis- were deployed at Howth and Crosshaven as faction at the level of call roaming charges being major boating activity areas in the country. Other applied by mobile operators in this State many vessels will be deployed on a random basis times. around the coastline during the coming months One appropriate mechanism for advancing this to promote safety awareness including the wear- issue is the European one, and in this connection ing of lifejackets. I am aware that ComReg participate within the The regulations have been widely welcomed Independent Regulators Group, IRG, and the and monitoring to date has shown a high level of European Regulators Group, ERG, with a view compliance. However, I will look to expanding to agreeing a co-ordinated action plan on a mar- the policing capacity on water if there are signifi- ket review for international roaming. cant levels of non-compliance. The public has a In addition I understand that the issue of inad- key role to play by taking personal responsibility vertent roaming when mobile users near the Bor- for their own safety through wearing lifejackets der inadvertently cross on to another network, and taking other sensible safety precautions when without actually crossing any border, has been undertaking their water based leisure activities. discussed at a number of Ireland-UK bilateral Parents too have a pivotal role to play in ensuring meetings and that ComReg will continue to work that children wear lifejackets at all times. with Ofcom on seeking further progress on this As part of its ongoing programme of enforce- issue. ComReg has a memorandum of under- ment of safety rules and vessel licensing con- standing, MoU, with the NI regulator, Ofcom, on ditions, the Maritime Safety Directorate will con- cross-Border co-ordination of GSM and 3G fre- tinue to carry out a campaign of operational quencies and there is also a MoU in place safety inspections on passenger ships and boats between Irish and UK operators aimed at this summer. These inspections, including unan- improving co-operation in the Border region. nounced checks, will be undertaken around the Minimising cross border roaming costs on the country in relation to vessels at sea and on inland island of Ireland would be beneficial for all Irish waters to determine compliance with licensing mobile phone users, particularly those who live requirements. Licence conditions relating to man- close to the border and I welcome the continuous ning levels, maximum passenger numbers work being done by ComReg in this area. allowed, the continued availability of safety I have asked ComReg to report to me quarterly equipment are among the issues which the inspec- on the implementation of each of the policy direc- tors will focus on. tions I issued to it in March, including the one on national and cross border roaming, and I look Aquaculture Development. forward to progress on this issue. 58. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Marine Safety. if his Department has investigated reports of 57. Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for illegal mussel dredging in the oyster beds of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Lough Swilly; if this dredging is harming those if he has satisfied himself that sufficient policing oyster beds; if action has been taken on the prom- capacity on the water is available to enforce water ise made in 2001 to appropriately amend the safety legislation around our coastline; and if he granting of mussel licences in the area; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19297/04] will make a statement on the matter. [19009/04] Minister for Communications, Marine and Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I recently Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Following the signed into law new water safety regulations granting of two aquaculture licences for the bot- aimed at Ireland’s growing marine leisure sector tom cultivation of mussels in Lough Swilly, local as part my campaign to continuously improve oyster fishermen claimed that parts of the areas safety on water. The new regulations which are licensed overlapped with wild oyster beds in the titled the Merchant Shipping (Pleasure Craft) lough. In light of these complaints, the cross-Bor- Lifejackets and Operation) (Safety) Regulations der aquaculture initiative, cbait, was asked to 2004, have immediate effect. They encompass all carry out a survey of the lough. The objective of types of pleasure craft regardless of the means the survey was to determine the location and of propulsion. extent of the oyster beds and to ascertain if there It is now compulsory for everyone on board a was any overlap between those areas and the sites pleasure craft of less than 7 metres, 23 feet, in licensed for mussel cultivation. length to wear a lifejacket-personal floatation The results of the survey indicated that there device and for all children up to the age of 16 was a minor degree of overlap. Following consul- years to wear a lifejacket while on board a tation with the persons to whom the aquaculture pleasure craft. licences had been granted, it was agreed that they 455 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 456

[Mr. D. Ahern.] vantage within the city centre. Supported by \1.3 would surrender the parts of their areas that had million funding from Diageo Ireland, the pro- been found to contain oysters. Arrangements gramme is delivering a range of learning and were made to have the mussel seed removed from showcasing projects focused on the creative use the areas concerned, and any oysters retrieved of digital media and reflects the national priori- during this process were relaid. Since then, the ties of building a knowledge-based society and oyster fishermen have applied for an aquaculture addressing the digital divide. licence in respect of oyster beds in the lough. This The schools programme of the Liberties learn- application is being considered by my Depart- ing initiative seeks to develop a range of pro- ment. I am advised that there is no evidence of grammes in 16 local primary and second level any dredging activity which would be harmful to schools aimed at addressing the digital divide. the oyster beds. These include providing information and com- munication technology, ICT, equipment and tech- Digital Hub. nical support to local schools providing pro- 59. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for fessional training to teachers so they are fully Communications, Marine and Natural Resources informed about the education benefits of ICT and the position regarding the development of the advising and informing the schools of employ- proposed digital hub in Dublin; and if he will ment opportunities in the digital sector. The make a statement on the matter. [19290/04] schools programme aims to equip local children with the skills needed to live in a digital age, and Minister for Communications, Marine and to work in the digital media industry, which will Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The digital be located on their doorstep. hub, which is the Government’s flagship project The Liberties learning studio was opened in in the digital content sector, intends to provide a December 2002 and provides a flexible multipur- high quality environment for Irish and inter- pose space, which can be used for a range of national new media companies, research and learning activities including community, development and educational-community initiat- enterprise and showcasing events. The facility is ives in the Liberties-Coombe area of Dublin. The being used for many purposes including the fol- digital content industry has been identified by our lowing: teacher training; digital community tutor development agencies as a high growth, value training; awards ceremonies for local groups; added industry where this country already exhib- exhibit launches; talk digital; digital media talks; its significant strengths. A substantial amount of and community events. progress, which I will outline, has been made in realising the aims of the project. Digital Literacy. The Digital Hub Development Agency Act 60. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Communi- 2003 was enacted in July of last year. The legis- cations, Marine and Natural Resources if his lation has placed the Digital Hub Development attention has been drawn to the fact that the EU Agency on a statutory footing. Property purchase is proposing spending \10 million of EU funds for amounting to \75 million has been completed. purposes such as improving digital literacy and The digital hub is currently engaged in nego- upgrading the digital infrastructure over the 2000- tiations to select a preferred developer for the 06 period; his views on whether more funds refurbishment of the properties. Three consortia should be invested in this area; and his further were short listed for the development contract. views on the gaps in digital literacy in the The digital hub is at present evaluating the final State. [19278/04] bids received in May. It is envisaged that the eval- uation committee will present its analysis to the Minister for Communications, Marine and board on 30 June before delivering a recommend- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Digital liter- ation for my consideration. It is planned that acy programmes in Ireland are the primary when completed, the project will deliver 500,000 responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for sq. ft. of enterprise, learning and educational, Education and Science. However, my Depart- residential and retail space. The refurbishment of ment, together with the Department of Education the print depot which has been progressed as a and Science, is co-operating on an innovative and joint venture between the Digital Hub Develop- radical public private partnership venture under ment Agency, Enterprise Ireland and Dublin City which it is proposed to transform the information Council is complete. Over 30 digital media com- and communications technology serving all Irish panies have located in the hub, with continued primary and post primary schools. growth forecast for 2004. Construction of a 3 km. Earlier this year the Minister for Education high speed, fibre broadband network in the hub and Science and I reached agreement with IBEC at a cost of \2.29 million is complete and the for the establishment of a three year, \18 million facility to offer high quality competitively priced joint Government-telecommunications industry telecommunications services to firms locating in fund to resource the provision of high speed the hub is now available. broadband connectivity to all first and second The Liberties learning initiative is an edu- level schools nationwide. The case for such pro- cation-community based programme, which uses vision is compelling, particularly with regard to technology to tackle social and educational disad- improving and ensuring the quality of the edu- 457 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 458 cation experience; access to global information room will greatly enhance the potential of ICT sources; the possibilities of communication and in teaching and learning in schools. It is critical, collaboration between school communities, at however, that this resource is used effectively for home and abroad; a seamless transition from the benefit of the learner. This will require a second to third level education; the skills required coherent integrated strategy across a range of for competitiveness of the economy; and the issues including equipment provision and main- inclusion of geographically remote schools. tenance in schools, technical support and advice, The conclusion and implementation of such an enhancement of teacher skills and best practice in agreement will enhance Ireland’s ability to meet ICT applications, curriculum development, access its Lisbon Agenda objectives, and will drive to quality digital content for learning and fos- demand and deployment of broadband techno- tering an e-learning culture within schools. logies and ICTs within the wider community. The Minister for Education and Science is con- Under the proposed agreement, private tele- sidering proposals for a new strategic action plan communications companies will contribute \15 for ICT integration in schools that will address million, that is, \5 million per annum, to a joint these issues and build on developments to date. Government-IBEC-TIF fund of \18 million. This He intends to announce his plans in this regard fund will be used to provide broadband con- in the near future. nectivity to all schools over a three year period. The Government contribution of \3 million will Aquaculture Industry. be funded from departmental allocations. 61. Mr. English asked the Minister for A prior information notice has been published Communications, Marine and Natural Resources in the Official Journal of the European Com- the position regarding an investigation into the munities, which effectively initiates the public aquaculture industry here; and if he will make a tendering process. The target is to award statement on the matter. [19291/04] contract(s) to successful bidders in November 2004 and to complete roll out by September 2005. Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): A compre- The strategy will include the development of hensive review of the procedures for monitoring, a centrally managed national schools broadband control and enforcement in respect of aquacul- network. This network will link the broadband ture has been undertaken in my Department. The connectivity provided to all schools to a central work involved is substantially completed and will point. The development of the network is a key be finalised as soon as possible. The review has recommendation of the Datanet International considered, in particular, whether the extensive report commissioned by the Department of Edu- programme of monitoring and inspection cur- cation and Science and is the practice in a number rently in place for fish farms needs to be refined of European countries. This approach offers a or reinforced. If changes are required to legis- number of distinct advantages including central lation, procedures or practices on foot of the provision of content filtering, virus scanning, fire- review, the necessary action will be taken as a wall and intrusion detection services for all priority. schools allowing for significant cost economies and enhanced security; centralised network utilis- Question No. 62 answered with Question ation monitoring for rapid fault rectification and No. 16. increases in schools bandwidth as required; facili- tating schools in communicating with each other Fishing Industry. directly — in effect, using the schools network as a virtual private network; allowing for the pro- 63. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for vision of webmail accounts for all schools, Communications, Marine and Natural Resources teachers and pupils in the State; central hosting the value of fish catches by Irish fishing vessels and delivery of curriculum-related digital content and others in each of the past five years; the and applications; and allowing for onward con- extent to which the value is likely to fluctuate in nectivity to education networks in the US, the future with due regard to likely conditions; Europe Asia and the rest of the world. and if he will make a statement on the matter. The Minister for Education and Science also [19271/04] intends to establish a national help desk facility Minister for Communications, Marine and that will provide advice and support to schools on Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The value of connectivity, troubleshooting and other technical landings by all Irish fishing vessels for the last five issues facing schools operating ever more com- years for which statistics are available are as fol- plex ICT processes. This will seek to ensure that lows: 1998 — \192.3 million; 1999 — \189.5 mill- such issues do not become impediments to effec- ion; 2000 — \189.0 million; 2001 — \253.6 mill- tive integration of ICT in schools. ion; and 2002 — \209.9 million. It is difficult to By facilitating multi-user access to a wide range make forecasts as to the extent to which this of multimedia applications through the Internet, value is likely to fluctuate in the future as it is much faster download of educational content and dependent not only on volume of catches, but enhanced communications between school com- also on market conditions. At European level, I munities, the provision of broadband to the class- am working with the Commission and my Euro- 459 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 460

[Mr. D. Ahern.] reporting requirement that our licence operators pean partners to secure the ongoing viability of required to the Government with regard to their stocks through measures such as the environmen- work programme and discoveries. [19311/04] tally-friendly fishing initiative, effective control across all member states, and targeted stock Minister for Communications, Marine and recovery plans. At national level, my Department Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The level of will continue to work with Bord Iascaigh Mhara, exploration activity is directly related to the num- the fisheries development agency, to further the ber of authorisations issued. At present both development of the sector. licences and activity are at a relatively low level. This summer one exploration well and one seis- mic survey will be completed. The exploration Question No. 64 answered with Question well will be drilled in the Celtic Sea by Provi- No. 41. dence Resources plc under its Licensing Option 03/1. The seismic survey was undertaken by ENI Coastal Protection. in the Porcupine Basin under its Exploration 65. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Licence 1/99 and was completed on 16 June. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Under the terms of their authorisations, oper- if he received responses from each coastal local ators are obliged to give my Department a copy authority to his request in July 2002 for their pro- of all original data as it is acquired, and usually posals for coastal protection work for the period in electronic form. The operators are also obliged 2003-06; the budget which has been allocated to to make presentations on the data giving their such works; and the role his Department is taking interpretations and analyses of it to specialists in in organising coastal protection in view of the my Department, who analyse the data indepen- concerns about climate change, rising sea levels dently. In addition operators are obliged to sub- and Dublin City Council alone estimates they mit six-monthly reports giving outline details of may need \150 million for coastal defence exploration activity both undertaken in the pre- work. [19305/04] vious six-month period and to be carried out in the six-month period ahead. Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): In July 2002 my Department requested all coastal local auth- Internet Safety Programme. orities to submit proposals for coastal protection 67. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- works for the period 2003-2006. In all, 195 pro- ster for Communications, Marine and Natural posals with an estimated total cost of over \120 Resources the main features of the safer Internet million were submitted from all of the coastal plan agreed by communications Ministers at their local authorities. recent meeting, designed to combat child por- Under the coast protection measure of the nography on the net; the way in which the plan National Development Plan 2000-2006 \52.01 will operate here; and if he will make a statement million is identified. Expenditure under this on the matter. [19207/04] measure in 2003 was \2.9 million and an allo- Minister for Communications, Marine and cation of \780,000 for the coastal protection pro- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The safer gramme has been made available to my Depart- Internet plus programme 2005-08 is the second ment for this year. Given the nature and of two European Union programmes to promote importance of this issue going forward, I decided safer use of the Internet and new on-line techno- that we need to develop a more strategic logies, particularly for children, and to fight approach to the whole issue of coastal protection. against illegal content and content unwanted by To inform that approach, I have allocated a half the end user. a million euros to a major coastal protection strat- The first action plan covered a four year period egy study. The study will address the nature and from 1 January 1999 to 31 December 2002. It had extent of erosion at various locations and differ- a budget of \25 million. That programme set up ent types of coastline in Ireland and seek to iden- a European network of hotlines for reporting of tify the most effective means, technically, financi- illegal material, particularly child pornography, ally and environmentally, in responding to encouraged self-regulation and codes of conduct particular instances and types of erosion. It is for the Internet industry, supported development expected that when this study is completed a of filtering and rating systems and stimulated more targeted approach to programme delivery awareness actions. will result and will enable a greater level of The new programme, which will have a budget efficiency in responding to coastal erosion change of \45 million, was agreed by telecommunications around the country. Ministers at a Council chaired by me earlier this month. It will continue to promote safer use of Offshore Exploration. the Internet and new on-line technologies partic- 66. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for ularly for children, and pursue the fight against Communications, Marine and Natural Resources illegal, harmful or unwanted content, building on the level of exploration activity due to be carried the experience from the initial safer Internet out in Irish territorial waters this summer; and the programme. 461 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 462

However, the scope will be broadened to Television Licence Fee. include new media, and new issues such as 69. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for “spam”. The scope of the programme will expand Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to include accession countries, with action his views on the progress which has been made directed primarily at the end users, parents, edu- by RTE since the licence fee increase; and if he cators and children. will make a statement on the matter. [19279/04] The plan is administered by the European Commission’s Information Society Directorate Minister for Communications, Marine and General. The Department of Justice, Equality Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The tele- \ and Law Reform has primary responsibility for vision licence fee was increased by 2 from 1 Jan- the implementation of the plan in Ireland. uary 2004 which brought the annual cost of a licence to \152. I approved the increase in the Alternative Energy Projects. television licence fee so as to ensure that RTE would be in position to continue to deliver the 68. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for quality of service it is mandated to and which the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources people of Ireland deserve and expect. if he intends to take action to promote the use of RTE has published its annual statements of wood biomass as an energy fuel source for power commitments for 2004. This document taken and heat generation; and if he will make a state- together with RTE’s change management com- ment on the matter. [19302/04] mitments for 2004 will be key inputs when RTE’s performance in 2004 is being evaluated for the Minister for Communications, Marine and purpose of the annual licence fee adjustment. Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): In December RTE’s annual report has been published and 2003 my Department, in association with Sus- highlights a significant improvement in RTE’s tainable Energy Ireland, SEI, set up a bioenergy financial position in 2003, especially in light of strategy group, BSG. The primary objective of significant deficits in 2001 and 2002. RTE’s finan- the group is to consider the policy options and cial position shows a surplus of \2.3 million for support mechanisms available to Government to 2003 compared to deficits of \46 million in 2001 stimulate increased use of biomass for energy and \22 million in 2002. conversion, and to make specific recommend- ations for action to increase the penetration of Telecommunications Services. biomass energy in Ireland. 70. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Biomass can be subdivided into waste categor- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources ies and purpose grown energy crops including Ireland’s international ranking in the telecom- short rotation forestry and miscanthus grass. The munications industry; when he expects this coun- use of biomass as fuel for generation of both elec- try to re-establish itself at the leading edge of the tricity and heat are within the remit of the BSG. industry; and if he will make a statement on the Input to the group is from a wide range of matter. [19272/04] interested parties, including those in the wood processing industry, Teagasc and the Department Minister for Communications, Marine and of Agriculture and Food. The BSG will produce Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): A range of a strategy report for publication. It will contain a indicators can be used to measure the position road map for the development of biomass energy and rate of progress of a country’s international with the identification of staged, achievable tar- rating in the telecommunications sector. No sin- gets and recommendations for future action. gle measurement gives a comprehensive picture. It is expected that this report will be available The Deputy will be aware that Ireland is a leader in certain aspects of telecommunications develop- at the end of this year and will link in with the ment and lags in others. Department’s renewables consultation process He should also be aware of the fact that the and newly formed renewables development rate of growth in key areas such as broadband group. penetration is one of the highest in the world. The Ireland has an excellent growing climate and Irish telecoms sector is highly rated in terms of an ongoing supply of raw material for wood fuel. international capacity and mobile penetration. Wood residues are already being used to produce The broad aim of Government policy is to heat for sawmills across the country and the wood strengthen the competitiveness of the sector gen- energy market is poised for growth, with a num- erally. The development of the ICT in education ber of commercial start-ups and a supply chain programme is an important initiative in this emerging. regard. Wood residues can be broken down into four categories: pulpwood residues, sawmill residues, Question No. 71 answered with Question forest residues and recycled wood. Responsibility No. 32. for commercial development would be a day-to- day decision for the commercial companies Question No. 72 answered orally with Question involved. No. 6. 463 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 464

Electricity Generation. of the company, nor its employees or customers that the situation remains unchecked. If the com- 73. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources pany is to return to profitability, the company if he has satisfied himself that Moneypoint power needs to be restructured. If this is to be a success, station will remain fuelled by coal into the future it is crucial that all stakeholders play a construc- as part of the overall energy fuel mix; and if he tive part in this process. will make a statement on the matter. [19299/04] The current IR issues in An Post have been simmering for some time. The problems in An Minister for Communications, Marine and Post are longstanding and deep seated and it is Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): As a result of clear that the solution to the current issues must our peripheral location at the end of the Euro- put the company on a long term sustainable fin- pean energy supply chain with few indigenous ancial and operational footing. The full scale of energy sources, the issue of maintaining a bal- the financial problems facing An Post, became anced fuel mix in electricity generation is of clear to myself and my Department during the major importance to Ireland. It has been esti- second half of 2002 and to the then management mated that if Moneypoint’s 915 MW of coal-fired of An Post sometime later. capacity was replaced by the same amount of gas- It is important that all stakeholders fully recog- fired plant, Ireland would be over 80% reliant on nise the seriousness of the financial position and natural gas for its electricity generation needs by the threat this represents to the future of the com- 2010. This could have very serious consequences pany. Once the scale of the financial difficulties for our national competitiveness in the event of a became clear last summer a recovery strategy was major spike in the price of gas or a crisis in global approved by the board and presented to me. gas supply. That said, it is also important to ensure that our national electricity generating The strategy sets out a roadmap to return An stock is as operationally and economically Post to profitability by 2005. It includes signifi- efficient as possible and does not add unduly to cant restructuring and job losses amounting to the cost of electricity to industry and the ordi- approximately 1,500. However, buy in from the nary consumer. unions is crucial to agreement and implemen- The ESB has now finalised its proposals in tation. This has not been an easy process, change regard to the future operation of the Moneypoint is not easy. Following the industrial dispute last plant. These proposals, which envisage the plant March, the Labour Relations Commission put continuing to operate as a coal-fired generating forward a framework to resolve the differences station, have been developed in the light of obli- between management and unions. gations under the EU large combustion plants Both parties are currently in talks under the and national emission ceiling directives. The pro- auspices of the Labour Relations Commission. posals were formally submitted by the company Although these discussions were due to finish in to my Department on Friday last, 25 June 2004, May, it was agreed by all parties to extend the for the necessary ministerial approval and they process given the progress, albeit slow, that was are now being examined in detail in that context. being made. The talks are continuing and while some progress has been made, substantial issues An Post Restructuring. remain to be resolved. 74. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for It is in all our interests that An Post continues Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to be a strong player in the Irish postal market the position regarding the restructuring of An and continues to provide quality services to cus- Post; the further position regarding financial tomers and sustainable employment for staff. The recovery; the number of times he has met with recovery strategy approved by the board of An An Post in 2004; and if he will make a statement Post sets out the basis on which the company, in on the matter. [19294/04] partnership with the trade unions, can move for- ward. While my Department is more than willing Minister for Communications, Marine and to assist in any way possible to facilitate an agree- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I have met ment, the responsibility for agreeing and with An Post on 29 January, 4 February and on implementing the plan rests primarily with the a number of occasions during the industrial board, the management and unions in An Post. relations difficulties in March. In addition, my officials meet regularly with An Post manage- Postal Services. ment and they brief me on general developments in the company. 75. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Deputies will be aware of the precarious finan- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources cial situation that I outlined in some detail to the if his attention has been drawn to recent reports House on 23rd March in which An Post finds that An Post is set to apply to ComReg for a itself. On top of losses in 2001, the company is set 14.5% increase in the price of a stamp in an to lose approximately \60 million between 2002 attempt to cut crippling losses at the company; and 2003 and is forecast to be loss making in 2004. when he expects that ComReg will make a Losses on this scale and of this duration are decision on the application; and if he will make a simply unsustainable. It is neither in the interests statement on the matter. [19209/04] 465 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 466

Minister for Communications, Marine and decentralised; the period of time which elapsed Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I understand between the initial announcement of the decen- that An Post has applied for a price increase to tralisation plans and the date on which the decen- the Commission for Communications Regulation. tralisation was completed; and if he will make a Under the European Communities (Postal statement on the matter. [19034/04] Services) Regulations 2002, ComReg is the desig- 83. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the nated independent body responsible for pricing average annual increase in salary costs, overtime policy in the postal sector with regard to the uni- and travel to, from and in the decentralised versal service segment of the postal market. I offices in the three years following decentralis- have no function in any consideration of this mat- ation compared to these costs for those business ter nor on the timing of any decision by ComReg. units in the three years preceding decentralis- However, I have made it clear to An Post that ation, in respect of the last decentralisation by his having secured substantial price increases in the Department. [19094/04] past, the company should refocus its efforts on providing quality services to customers which is 84. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the part of its universal service obligations. number of persons decentralised and the full dur- ation of the project, in respect of the last decen- Question No. 76 answered with Question tralisation by his Department; the number of No. 41. internal and external transfers which were required to obtain the requisite number of per- Barron Report. sons decentralising; the amount of time necessary to train decentralising persons and the percentage 77. Mr. B. Smith asked the Taoiseach when the and duration of overlapping staff which was report of Mr. Justice Barron into the Belturbet required; and the additional costs for overtime bombing will be published; and if he will make a and travel and subsistence incurred. [19109/04] statement on the matter. [19031/04] The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions 78. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Taoiseach if he Nos. 79, 83 and 84 together. has acknowledged receipt of the letter before A total of 383 posts were decentralised to Cork action which was sent on behalf of persons by the Central Statistics Office in 1994. Of these, (details supplied); and if he will make a statement 158 staff transferred in their existing grade, 59 on the matter. [19033/04] from the CSO and 99 from other Departments. 81. Mr. Ferris asked the Taoiseach if he has A total of 116 staff were transferred on pro- acknowledged the receipt of a letter before motion and 109 were recruited to the Civil Ser- action; and in light of the gravity of the situation vice. The decentralisation was announced in June facing the Government, would it not be appropri- 1991 and the subsequent move to Cork took place ate to read the contents into the official record of in two phases in January 1994, when about 300 Da´il E´ ireann. [19056/04] staff moved to the Cork office. The remaining staff were appointed during the course of 1994. The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions The CSO began putting the professional man- Nos. 77, 78 and 81 together. agement structure in place from February 1993 I received the report on the Dublin bombings with the recruitment and training of statisticians. of 1972 and 1973 today. Mr. Justice Barron’s con- This early recruitment allowed for on the job sideration of a number of other events, including training and overlap in Dublin before moving to the Belturbet bombing will be annexed to the Cork. Detailed manuals were prepared describing report and I expect to receive those annexes the work procedures, statistical processes and before the end of the week. Following necessary computer systems in all sections of the office and consideration by relevant Departments and the job descriptions were prepared for all posts from Attorney General, the report will be considered staff officer level upwards. The intake of volun- by the Government. It would be the intention teers from other Departments began in summer that the report would be considered by the 1993. Training of new staff was mainly on the job Oireachtas and published. and was conducted by serving staff and line man- The letter before action was acknowledged on agement, with some courses also provided by the 18 June and the matter is under consideration. A CSO training unit and the Civil Service training response will issue shortly. centre. Details of salary costs, overtime and travel and Decentralisation Programme. subsistence for the CSO for the years 1991 to 79. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the num- 1997, as published in the appropriation accounts, ber of posts decentralised in the Central Statistics are set out in the following table. A comparable Office move to Cork; the number of posts filled breakdown is not available in respect of activities on promotion and by staff maintaining their cur- which transferred to Cork. These figures include rent grade in each case; the number that were a number of large scale periodic activities such as already serving staff and the number in each case the population and agricultural censuses in 1991, that were transferred from other Departments or the household budget survey in 1994 and the cen- semi-State organisations of the total number who sus of population in 1996. 467 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 468

[The Taoiseach.]

Year Salaries of which: overtime Travel & subsistence of which: home travel

\m \m \m \m 1991 8.717 0.244 0.429 n.a.* 1992 10.865 0.227 0.310 n.a. 1993 11.160 0.226 0.364 n.a. 1994 11.392 0.300 0.578 0.321 1995 11.306 0.301 0.519 0.350 1996 14.227 0.255 0.484 0.297 1997 15.580 0.366 0.565 0.376 *n.a. Details not available.

increase substantially the proportion of existing Electronic Payments. staff paid in this way. It is intended that a memo will shortly be brought to Cabinet outlining the 80. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the pro- issues involved in moving to e-payments. gress that has been made by his Department to date in implementing the recommendations of Question No. 81 answered with Question the Accenture report, Delivering a World Class No. 77. Payments Environment, which was published in June 2003; and if he will make a statement on the Decentralisation Programme. matter. [19035/04] 82. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the risk The Taoiseach: Following publication of the analysis and the cost benefit analysis which he has Information Society Commission report, pre- carried out or proposes to carry out in respect of pared by Accenture and entitled, Delivering a decentralisation as it affects his Department. World Class Payments Environment, in June [19079/04] 2003, the e-strategy group of Secretaries General The Taoiseach: There are no proposals to met to consider the commission’s report and decentralise any section of my Department or any agreed to prioritise a response. The e-strategy of the bodies or agencies operating under its group established an ad hoc group of senior aegis. Having regard to this, it would be unnecess- officials from key Departments to consider the ary to conduct either a risk analysis or cost bene- issues involved in greater detail, to shape an fit analysis in respect of decentralisation. appropriate response and to bring forward pro- posals for the consideration of the Cabinet com- Questions Nos. 83 and 84 answered with Ques- mittee on the information society. This includes tion No. 79. examining the feasibility of setting a target date Dairy Exports. by which all payments to and from public sector organisations would be capable of being sup- 85. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Taoiseach the ported electronically. It also involves putting in volume and value by commodity of dairy exports place a process of dialogue and consultation with for each of the past five years. [18846/04] the key public and private sector stakeholders to The Taoiseach: The data requested by the agree a shared way forward. Deputy is presented in the following tables. Table Subsequent to a general council agreement in 1 shows the value of dairy exports identified by July 2003, all new entrants to the Civil Service main commodity type while Table 2 shows the who take up their positions on or after 1 October corresponding volumes for these goods. The year 2003 are paid by electronic fund transfer or EFT. 2003 is the latest complete year for which data It was also agreed that there should be a drive to are available.

Table 1

1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Dairy exports by value \(000) \(000) \(000) \(000) \(000) Butter 361,510 356,408 329,374 319,143 351,320 Cheese 273,424 294,915 388,808 355,994 296,098 of which: unprocessed cheese (i.e. Cheddar, Brie, 221,379 242,885 333,638 296,491 236,842 Edam etc.) Processed cheese, not grated or powdered 31,334 31,788 28,775 25,494 24,558 Fresh cheese including whey cheese, and curd 11,421 10,269 16,745 24,506 22,571 Grated or powdered cheese 9,219 9,964 9,524 9,478 12,030 469 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 470

1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Milk and cream 291,983 400,376 247,323 176,044 207,026 of which: milk in solid form, with less than 1.5% 154,619 247,881 107,076 63,204 85,740 fat content Milk and cream, in solid form, with fat content 91,257 107,450 101,566 77,237 89,323 exceeding 1.5% Milk and cream, of a fat content of 1% to 6% 34,404 34,783 28,262 26,168 17,185 Cream of a fat content exceeding 6% 7,287 5,132 6,954 4,996 4,710 Milk of a fat content not exceeding 1% 4,247 4,975 3,372 4,328 9,991 Whey 40,572 49,225 58,234 49,638 45,926 Buttermilk, curdled milk and cream, kephir, etc. 21,343 28,152 26,906 20,784 19,535 Ice cream and other edible ice 11,914 19,882 13,270 11,672 11,496 Yoghurt 3,694 6,607 11,648 10,251 14,915 Other products of natural milk constituents 3,069 4,344 2,756 4,191 3,723 Birds’ eggs 482 691 2,595 4,415 3,880

Overall total 1,007,991 1,160,600 1,080,914 952,132 953,919

Table 2

1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Dairy exports by volume Tonnes Tonnes Tonnes Tonnes Tonnes Butter 126,114 120,997 113,701 104,199 124,846 Cheese 86,651 90,588 116,543 114,629 99,017 of which: unprocessed cheese (i.e. 69,848 74,397 97,484 92,354 78,465 Cheddar, Brie, Edam etc.) Processed cheese, not grated or 9,443 9,037 8,489 7,735 7,679 powdered Fresh cheese including whey cheese, and 4,974 4,652 8,080 12,038 9,837 curd Grated or powdered cheese 2,370 2,501 2,465 2,497 3,023 Milk and cream 244,163 290,706 175,335 157,353 189,208 of which: milk in solid form, with less 82,490 124,861 44,234 35,106 46,750 than 1.5% fat content Milk and cream, in solid form, with fat 46,272 47,865 39,944 34,093 44,138 content exceeding 1.5% Milk and cream, of a fat content of 1% to 93,210 94,819 72,679 63,157 38,455 6% Cream of a fat content exceeding 6% 4,088 2,583 3,442 2,335 2,444 Milk of a fat content not exceeding 1% 17,933 20,398 14,986 22,589 57,354 Whey 41,355 50,928 55,474 45,132 51,234 Buttermilk, curdled milk and cream, 40,316 39,761 12,092 13,614 14,107 kephir etc Ice cream and other edible ice 7,421 11,135 7,322 6,471 7,183 Yoghurt 1,754 3,758 6,501 5,562 9,690 Other products of natural milk 1,629 1,880 1,399 2,020 1,836 constituents Birds’ eggs 390 613 931 1,972 1,941

Overall total 549,793 610,366 489,298 450,952 499,062 Note: It should be noted that, overall, approximately 3% of all trade is unclassified by commodity.

Regulatory Reform. posed regulation or regulatory change whereby 86. Mr. P. Breen asked the Taoiseach if his property rights are being restricted or curtailed, Department proposes, as part of the better regu- it will be necessary in keeping with the principles lation process, to prepare guidelines on consul- of better regulation both to consult fully all tation in like manner to the code of practice on affected landowners and conduct a regulatory consultation prepared earlier in 2004 by the Cabi- impact analysis with particular reference to the net Office in the UK; and if he will make a state- impact of the proposals on the stakeholders in ment on the matter. [19175/04] question; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19176/04] 87. Mr. P. Breen asked the Taoiseach his views on whether, in all future instances involving pro- The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 86 and 87 together. 471 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 472

[The Taoiseach.] decentralisation. My Department will undertake The Government White Paper on better regu- a detailed examination on the various issues lation, “Regulating Better”, sets out an action which may impact on the cost of implementing plan outlining the steps that will be taken to the decentralisation programme in order to both implement the principles of better regulation, quantify and, where possible, minimise the var- including publication of guidelines on consul- ious costs involved. However, at this early stage tation and the piloting and introduction of regu- in the decentralisation process it is important to latory impact analysis. The precise form and con- be aware that crucial information, such as the tent of the guidelines on consultation will be a outcome of the results of the central applications matter for the better regulation group of senior facility, will be a critical factor in the effective officials when it commences work in the coming analysis of cost benefits in respect of the decen- weeks. I expect that it will have regard to all tralisation programme and in the development of examples of good practice from other EU and risk assessment and risk mitigation strategies. OECD member states. I will ensure that the The four agencies operating under the aegis of group is made aware of the document recom- my Department which have also been identified mended by the Deputy. for decentralisation — FA´ S, the National Stan- With regard to regulatory impact analysis, dards Authority of Ireland, the Health and Safety RIA, it is proposed first to pilot and then main- Authority and Enterprise Ireland — have also stream a system, whereby Government Depart- finalised their initial implementation plans and ments and offices can gain a better understanding have indicated that they will undertake separate of the likely impacts of proposed legislation. My risk assessments within their organisations to Department has a role in developing the overall identify potential issues with regard to their system that will be used. Beyond that, the appli- internal and external interfaces. It will also be the cation of RIA to specific legislative proposals is responsibility of the agencies to undertake any a matter for individual Departments and offices examination of the costs and benefits associated and it is one in which I have no function. with their relocation under the decentralisation With regard to the specific issue raised by the programme. Deputy, my Department has no plans to intro- duce legislation affecting the property rights of 89. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- landowners. It will be a matter for the Depart- ster for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the ment and office which is sponsoring the legis- average annual increase in salary costs, overtime lation to apply guidelines on consultation and on and travel to, from and in the decentralised RIA in an appropriate fashion when they have offices in the three years following decentralis- been developed. ation compared to these costs for those business units in the three years preceding decentralis- Decentralisation Programme. ation, in respect of the last decentralisation by her Department. [19095/04] 88. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade risk analysis and the cost benefit analysis which and Employment (Ms Harney): To date the Pat- she has carried out or proposes to carry out in ents Office is the only office in my Department respect of decentralisation as it affects her that has decentralised. The Patents Office moved Department. [19080/04] to Kilkenny in 1998. The total costs for salaries, Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade overtime and travel for the three years prior to and Employment (Ms Harney): My Department decentralisation — 1995, 1996 and 1997 — were has recently prepared and submitted to the cen- \6,474,802. The comparable costs for the three tral implementation group, an initial implemen- years following decentralisation — 1998,1999 and tation plan for the decentralisation of those 2000 — were \6,679,704. This represents an over- sections/offices of the Department which have all increase of 3.2%. been approved by me for relocation to Carlow. The average annual increase in salary costs, The plan clearly demonstrates that risk minimis- overtime and travel for this office in the two years ation and mitigation were a primary concern for preceding decentralisation, 1996 and 1997, were the Department when making decisions in the as shown in the tables. It should be noted that context of decentralisation. In addition, many of comparable 1994 figures are not available and, the areas of the Department identified for relo- accordingly, no figure for increase in 1995 on cation have recently undergone business process 1994 is possible. re-engineering exercises which will now be revisited in the context of decentralisation. % Officials of the Department are now planning to prepare an overall risk assessment framework Salaries + 2.3 to assess direct and indirect risks, threats to, and Overtime + 123.2 opportunities for the synergies between the Travel + 22.6 Department and its agencies during and post 473 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 474

The average annual changes over the subsequent ceeded with arrangements in January 1997 for the three years 1998 to 2000 were as follows: move of the Patents Office to Kilkenny. The Pat- ents Office relocated to Kilkenny on 1 September % 1998, which involved the relocation of 68 posts in total. Salaries 3 Of the staff who transferred to Kilkenny in Overtime 3.4 September 1998, 15 staff were relocated from Travel + 45 within my Department, 43 were transferred from other Departments and four specialist staff were recruited directly to the Patents Office in 90. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Kilkenny. With regard to job and people changes ster for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the required to achieve decentralisation of the Pat- number of persons decentralised and the full dur- ents Office, the best estimate of the Department ation of the project, in respect of the last decen- is that there were an average of 3.5 people tralisation by her Department; the number of changes for every job decentralised. internal and external transfers which were The training in period required for administrat- required to obtain the requisite number of per- ive staff varied across grades and was dependent sons decentralising; the amount of time necessary on the specific duties involved, ranging typically to train decentralising persons and the percentage from one month to three months. The overlap- and duration of overlapping staff which was ping of administrative staff also varied from a required; and the additional costs for overtime number of days to one month, the period being and travel and subsistence incurred. [19110/04] determined by the specific duties and grades involved. Three information technology unit staff Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade for Kilkenny were in place one year in advance of and Employment (Ms Harney): The Government the move. Staff vacancies and priorities elsewhere decided on 14 March 1995 to relocate the Patents across the Department at the time also impacted Office, an office of my Department, to Kilkenny. on the period of staff overlap. Eight staff were The Government decision required that the busi- designated as key trainers in advance of the move ness services unit of the Department of Finance and each provided training to new staff arriving undertake a study of the Patents Office to estab- in the office from late 1997 until relocation on lish the necessary management structure, busi- 1 September 1998. The period that key trainers ness processes and information technology overlapped with their direct replacements ranged requirements to ensure a successful relocation to from one month to three months. Kilkenny. The Department of Finance com- The costs for overtime and travel and subsist- menced its review in September 1995. After its ence for the Patents Office for the period 1996 to completion in late 1996, my Department pro- 2002 are outlined in the following table.

Amounts in Euro

1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002

Overtime 16,548.81 58,486.56 104,732.19 48,200.25 31,145.14 26,960.97 24,278.28 Travel and Subsistence 30,419.03 20,047.73 38,535.08 60,335.84 52,155.84 72,958.08 70,976.84

Minister of State at the Department of Work Permits. Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Fahey): The average participation rate on job initiative in 91. Mr. Gregory asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- 2004 will be in the region of 2,100. The total fund- ster for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if the ing allocation for employment schemes in 2004 work permit renewal for a person (details has been fixed at \351 million, which is similar to supplied) in Dublin 7 can be expedited in view of the level of funding provided in 2003. This allo- the special circumstances. [19239/04] cation will support up to 25,000 places across the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade three FA´ S employment schemes: community and Employment (Ms Harney): I am informed employment, social economy and job initiative. that a permit in respect of the individual con- The number of places being funded is similar cerned was issued on 24 June 2004. to the number of participants at year end 2003 and no reductions are planned on the overall par- Jobs Initiative. ticipation levels on these schemes in 2004. FA´ S 92. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Ta´naiste and has been given some flexibility in the manage- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment ment of its financial allocation for employment if further cuts in the jobs initiative scheme are schemes in order to maximise progression to the planned by her Department; and if she will make labour market while at the same time facilitating a statement on the matter. [19255/04] the support of community services. 475 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 476

Equal Opportunities Employment. Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Ms Harney): The main impli- 93. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Ta´naiste and cations of the report regarding policy matters fall- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment ing within my Department’s responsibility con- the opportunities available for persons (details cern competition policy, particularly regarding supplied) in County Donegal with disabilities; predatory pricing and below-cost selling of food. and if she will make a statement on the mat- These are matters for which legislative provision ter. [19380/04] in this country is made in the Competition Act Minister of State at the Department of 2002 and the Restrictive Practices (Groceries) Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Fahey): Order 1987. I am currently reviewing the 1987 There are a number of interventions in place in order and will take into account, in so far as may County Donegal which would provide employ- be appropriate, the conclusions and recommend- ment opportunities in the open labour market for ations of the report concerned. people with disabilities. These interventions can be accessed through FA´ S, the training and Local Employment Service. employment authority, the National Training and 97. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Development Institute — NTDI and the North ster for Enterprise, Trade and Employment when Western Health Board. To this end, persons wish- she expects the County Clare local employment ing to access employment should contact the local service to resume operations; if persons employed FA´ S office in Letterkenny, where all options in the service up to its termination will be re- available to them will be explored and where they employed; and if she will make a statement on can receive advice on the most appropriate the matter. [19516/04] course of action to help them gain employment in the open labour market. Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Fahey): ´ Grocery Industry. Following the closure of Clare LES, FAS, at my request, commenced a comprehensive review of 94. Mr. Ferris asked the Ta´naiste and Minister the labour market needs of the Clare region in for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the num- the context of the closure. The review is now ber of submissions she has received in the past 12 complete and a report has been prepared and months in favour of removing the ban on below- circulated. cost selling. [19390/04] The report recommends the establishment of a new service. In light of this recommendation, a Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade ´ and Employment (Ms Harney): During the past meeting has taken place between FAS regional 12 months, I have received one written sub- management in the mid-west and Eiri Corca Bais- cinn, an ADM funded group in County Clare, to mission recommending the revocation for a trial discuss the proposed service. The board of man- period of the current prohibition on below-cost agement of Eiri Corca Baiscinn is currently pre- selling of grocery goods. In addition, I am aware paring a submission on the service for discussion that the chairperson of the Competition Auth- with FA´ S, following which a decision will be ority, in a recent speech, has repeated an earlier made on the future operation of the service. recommendation that the groceries order be removed. Job Creation. 95. Mr. Ferris asked the Ta´naiste and Minister 98. Mr. Crawford asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if her ster for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the attention has been drawn to the fact that there number of jobs that have been created by the has been a decline of 1.8% in the grocery market IDA in each of the six Border counties in each of share of independent and owner managed stores the past seven years; if she has satisfied herself here between 2003 and 2004; and her plans to that sufficient progress has been made in this address this. [19391/04] region in view of the Good Friday Agreement; if not, the ongoing problems that are hindering such Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade progress; and if she will make a statement on the and Employment (Ms Harney): I am not aware matter. [19614/04] of the source of the data referred to in the ques- tion and, therefore, am not in a position to com- Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade ment further, other than to say that fluctuations and Employment (Ms Harney): IDA Ireland is in market shares are a normal feature of competi- the agency with statutory responsibility for the tive markets. attraction of foreign direct investment, FDI, to Ireland and its regions. The following table shows 96. Mr. Ferris asked the Ta´naiste and Minister the number of jobs that have been created in for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if her IDA supported companies in each of the six Bor- attention has been drawn to the report, Ghost der counties for the years 1997 to 2003, inclusive. Town Britain, and if she has assessed its impli- In summary, a total of 6,170 jobs have been cations for the independent retail sector here. created in IDA supported companies in the Bor- [19392/04] der counties over the period from 1997 to 2003. 477 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 478

Considerable progress has also been made in This plan is geared towards the creation of a criti- marketing the Border counties for FDI and IDA cal mass of industries in the region and to is continuing to do so at an accelerated rate for addressing the infrastructural and educational inward investment. disadvantages of the region to enable it to com- pete on an equal footing with other regions. This Since the year 2000, IDA has placed a major process has been assisted by the fact that con- emphasis on the delivery of investment to the ditions for industrial development in the Border Border, midlands and west, BMW, region. It is counties have been considerably enhanced as a hoped that, through the greatly enhanced infra- result of the institutions and programmes estab- structure resulting from the implementation of lished as a result of the Good Friday Agreement. the national development plan and the focus on I am confident the strategies and policies being the gateway and hub towns designated under the pursued by the IDA Ireland, together with the national spatial strategy, considerable investment ongoing commitment of Government to regional can be secured for the region over the next few development, will bear fruit in terms of additional years. IDA has also contributed to, and greatly sustainable investment and jobs for the BMW supports the Border regional authority’s plan. region in the future.

Number of jobs created in IDA supported companies in each of the six Border counties over the period 1997 to 2003 inclusive.

1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Cavan 116 49 35 34 68 47 9 Louth 406 162 351 1012 155 179 48 Monaghan 28 24 0 1 22 57 10 Donegal 80 54 67 308 353 179 141 Leitrim 33 17 73 4 336 117 575 Sligo 154 241 83 185 92 163 102

Decentralisation Programme. 101. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Defence the number of persons decentralised and 99. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for the full duration of the project, in respect of the Defence the risk analysis and the cost benefit last decentralisation by his Department; the num- analysis which he has carried out or proposes to ber of internal and external transfers which were carry out in respect of decentralisation as it affects his Department. [19081/04] required to obtain the requisite number of per- sons decentralising; the amount of time necessary Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): The to train decentralising persons and the percentage implementation plan for the decentralisation of and duration of overlapping staff which was my Department has been submitted to the central required; and the additional costs for overtime, decentralisation implementation group. The plan travel and subsistence incurred. [19111/04] addresses such issues as risk assessment and miti- gation strategies, service and business continuity, Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): In July timing and phasing issues and business processes 1979, the Government decided that 166 staff of and systems. The costs associated with the plan my Department should be decentralised to Gal- are not yet determined. way. While an amount of preliminary work was 100. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for carried out in the period following that decision, Defence the average annual increase in salary including the identification of a site on lands costs, overtime and travel to, from and in the owned by my Department at Renmore, Galway, decentralised offices in the three years following the project did not proceed at that stage. In 1987, decentralisation compared to these costs for the Government re-affirmed the decision to those business units in the three years preceding decentralise part of the Department to Galway. decentralisation, in respect of the last decentralis- On foot of that decision, construction of the ation by his Department. [19096/04] offices at Renmore commenced and 176 staff transferred to the new building in June-July 1989. Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): The fin- Of the 176 staff who relocated, 43 were already ance branch of my Department, comprising 176 serving in my Department. staff in all, was decentralised to Galway in 1989. Details of the number of internal transfers, the The comparative figures requested by the Deputy amount of time necessary to train personnel and with regard to salary costs, overtime and travel the increase in overtime and travel costs are not are not readily available. Given that the decentra- readily available. Given that the decentralisation lisation to Galway occurred in 1989, some 15 to Galway occurred in 1989, some 15 years ago, years ago, the compilation of such information the compilation of such information would would require a disproportionate allocation of require a disproportionate allocation of staff staff resources. resources. 479 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 480

Departmental Properties. cation on that occasion. He may apply again to the tribunal in the current 2004-05 quota year 102. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Defence when the forms become available in the autumn. if his Department has structural insurance cover on a house (details supplied) in County Kildare; 105. Mr. M. Moynihan asked the Minister for if so, if an assessment of the house has taken Agriculture and Food when the transfer of milk place; the position regarding the assessment; and quota to a person (details supplied) in County if he will make a statement on the matter. Cork from the vendor will be finalised. [19156/04] [19075/04] Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): The State carries its own insurance on properties in its Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. ownership and, accordingly, my Department does Walsh): The transfer of the quota in this case will not have commercial structural insurance cover be finalised within the coming week and that on the house referred to by the Deputy. Follow- transfer will have effect from the 2003-04 milk ing damage to the property, an assessment of the quota year. house was undertaken. However, the house is one of a number of houses which it had been decided Decentralisation Programme. to offer for sale and, in this regard, it is not the 106. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Agri- policy to carry out refurbishment but rather to culture and Food the risk analysis and the cost sell such houses in the condition in which they benefit analysis which he has carried out or pro- stand. poses to carry out in respect of decentralisation as it affects his Department. [19082/04] Grant Payments. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. 103. Mr. Ellis asked the Minister for Agri- Walsh): My Department established an imple- culture and Food if his Department will grant for- mentation committee which is headed by an estry premiums due to a person (details supplied) assistant secretary to oversee all aspects of the in County Leitrim. [19555/04] decentralisation programme. This committee has Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. commenced the process of identifying and categ- Walsh): The 2004 forestry premium will be paid orising the risks associated with decentralisation. to the person in question next week. The main risks are expected to come under the headings of service delivery, financial, human Milk Quota. resources and accommodation. Proposals to deal with identified risks will be submitted to the 104. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Agri- Department’s risk management committee and culture and Food the reason a person (details the audit committee. This process will be carried supplied) in County Clare will not qualify for out in accordance with established procedures for milk quota from the national reserve; and if he risk management in the Department. will make a statement on the matter. [19066/04] 107. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. Agriculture and Food the average annual Walsh): In 2000, I put in place a scheme for the increase in salary costs, overtime and travel to, allocation of 5 million gallons of the additional from and in the decentralised offices in the three quota negotiated under Agenda 2000 to young years following decentralisation compared to milk producers who satisfied certain defined cri- these costs for those business units in the three teria. Furthermore, in 2001 an additional 4.5 mill- years preceding decentralisation, in respect of the ion gallons was allocated to young farmers. last decentralisation by his Department. Under those schemes the educational-training [19097/04] requirements were categorised at two levels, one level applying in the case of persons born before Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. 1 January 1968 and another in the case of those Walsh): The 1998 decentralisation of part of my born after that date. The person named applied Department to Johnstown Castle, Wexford, did under both schemes referred to above but as he not result in any increase in average annual salary did not satisfy the educational requirements costs or overtime. Expenses are paid in respect of appropriate in his case, he did not qualify for an travel to and from Johnstown Castle. However, allocation. the information is not recorded in the format Allocations of milk quota from the national required by the Deputy and would not be easily reserve are granted on the basis of recommend- calculated. ations from the milk quota appeals tribunal. The tribunal is a body established to consider and 108. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Agri- advise on applications for additional quota from culture and Food the number of persons individual producers who have suffered severe decentralised and the full duration of the project, hardship in the context of the milk quota system. in respect of the last decentralisation by his The person named last submitted an application Department; the number of internal and external for additional quota on the grounds of hardship transfers which were required to obtain the requi- in the 2002-03 quota year and he received an allo- site number of persons decentralising; the amount 481 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 482 of time necessary to train decentralising persons place over the summer and the co-operative will and the percentage and duration of overlapping be informed of the outcome. staff which was required; and the additional costs for overtime, travel and subsistence incurred. Milk Quota. [19112/04] 111. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Agri- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. culture and Food the position regarding the case Walsh): The last decentralisation by my Depart- of a person (details supplied) in County Cork; if, ment took place in 1998 to Johnstown Castle, in view of the circumstances, the quota can be Wexford. To obtain the requisite number of per- transferred; and if he will make a statement on sons decentralising 51 officers were relocated, 119 the matter. [19246/04] officers were transferred in from other Depart- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. ments and 123 officers were directly recruited. As Walsh): The milk quota regulations provide that is normal practice, a general induction course was where a holding is transferred by sale, lease, gift provided for all staff commencing with my or inheritance by a person to a relative, as Department and on the job training was given to defined, the milk quota attached to that holding all staff. The training provided varied from grade is transferred to that person. The transfer of milk to grade and post to post but, on average, a quota without land is not permitted, even month of on the job training and overlap was pro- between relatives, except in cases where there is vided. No additional overtime costs were incurred and a separate figure for travel and subsistence is a land and quota leasing arrangement in place. In not readily available. that case, the milk quota may be purchased with- out the land so long as the lease has been in place Grant Payments. for at least one year. 109. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Agri- Grant Payments. culture and Food when beef premium will be awarded to a person (details supplied) in County 112. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Agri- Limerick. [19139/04] culture and Food when decisions will be made regarding force majeure or exceptional circum- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. stances with regard to the establishment of Walsh): The person named submitted three appli- entitlements under the single payment scheme cations under the 2003 special beef premium under the mid-term review of Agenda 2000. scheme: one on 26 August 2003, in respect of nine [19247/04] animals, one on 18 November 2003, in respect of four animals, and one on 30 December 2003, in Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. respect of 55 animals. The 80% advance payment Walsh): My Department is processing the appli- has issued in respect of the first two applications. cations received from farmers in respect of the No payment has yet issued in respect of the third force majeure or exceptional circumstances application, as five of the 55 animals applied on measure. Applicants are being notified directly of were not CMMS compliant at the date of appli- the decision in their case. In many instances, it cation. My Department has been in correspon- is necessary to seek further information and or dence with the person named with a view to res- additional documentation from farmers in order olution of these issues to facilitate the that their applications can be fully assessed. I outstanding payments. urge farmers to respond promptly to these requests. Any applicant who is dissatisfied with Capital Investment Scheme. the decision in his or her case is entitled to appeal 110. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for the decision to the single payment appeals Agriculture and Food the position regarding an committee. application for funding by a co-operative (details supplied) in County Donegal; and if he will make Departmental Staff. a statement on the matter. [19245/04] 113. Mr. Healy-Rae asked the Minister for Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. Agriculture and Food if he will increase staffing Walsh): The co-operative in question has submit- levels for his Department’s credit union buildings ted an application to my Department for grant (details supplied) in County Kerry; and if he will aid from the 2004 call under the capital invest- make a statement on the matter. [19248/04] ment scheme for the marketing and processing of certain agricultural products under the national Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. development plan. This application, in respect of Walsh): Arrangements have been made to assign the installation of a sewerage treatment plant and an additional supervisory agricultural officer to improvement of facilities in the mart premises, the Killarney office. That officer will take up duty which was received in my Department on 14 June in the near future. In the interim, steps have been is currently being processed and will be evaluated taken to ensure that undue delays do not occur with other applications for grant aid for consider- by the temporary transfer of staff from other ation by a selection committee. This will take areas to deal with the issue of payments. 483 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 484

Bovine Disease Controls. ers must also have an eligible hectare of land for each payment entitlement. 114. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Agri- Farmers who joined the early retirement culture and Food when a person (details scheme before the reference period and had supplied) in County Mayo will have cattle regis- leased out their holdings during the entire refer- tered to his herd. [19249/04] ence period will not have any entitlements estab- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. lished for them under the single payment scheme, Walsh): The person named has been recorded as as they were not farming in the specified refer- the buyer of these animals. ence period. The person who was leasing the land and was actively farming during the reference Grant Payments. years will have entitlements established for him or her. It should be noted that entitlements are 115. Mr. Ellis asked the Minister for Agri- attached to the farmer who was actively farming culture and Food if his Department will make a during the reference period and are not attached REP scheme payment due to a person (details to the land. supplied) in County Leitrim; and if his Depart- However, family members who take over a ment is unable to award same, the reason there- holding, by transfer free of charge or by a lease for. [19318/04] of five or more years, that was leased out to a Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. third party during the reference period will be Walsh): My Department wrote to the person able to apply to the national reserve for payment named on 16 June 2004, detailing a number of entitlements under the single payment scheme. reasons his application could not be accepted. It This will be of particular benefit in the case of is open to him to submit an amended application farmers who joined the early retirement scheme that deals with the issues referred to in the letter before the reference period and where a family from my Department. member now wishes to take over the holding that was leased out to a third party during the refer- Farm Retirement Scheme. ence years. Farmers who leased out their holding during or 116. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- after the reference period, will, because they were culture and Food , further to Parliamentary Ques- active farmers in one or more of the reference tion No. 198 of 6 April 2004, the further action years, have entitlements established for them. he is taking to address this issue which has been However, they will need to commence farming raised regarding the impact which the mid-term again in 2005 and continue to farm in order to review of Agenda 2000 will have on the rights of activate their entitlements and draw down the participants in the early retirement scheme; and single payment for themselves. If they do not if he will make a statement on the matter. return to farming and activate their entitlements [19374/04] the entitlements in question will revert to the national reserve. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. During the course of negotiations on the Walsh): The position has already been set out in detailed rules, Ireland secured agreement that a detail in my response to the Deputy in Question farmer who was farming during one of more of No. 198 of 6 April 2004. the reference years and who has since leased out The legal position laid down in the Council his holding to another farmer can apply in 2005 regulation is that all livestock premia and arable to establish his entitlements and then lease those aid schemes are to be fully decoupled from pro- entitlements out to the farmer who has leased the duction as and from 1 January 2005 and will be land. To avail of this provision there must be a replaced by the new single payment scheme, to lease agreement in place in 2005, which includes be introduced from 2005. The quota regime in a clause providing that the entitlements are to be respect of the livestock premia schemes will cease leased out to the person who is leasing the land. to be in existence from 31 December 2004. This provision will also be of particular benefit to Consequently, quotas including individual suckler farmers who joined the early retirement scheme cow and ewe premium quotas will no longer exist during or after the reference period. for any farmer after that date and will not be required to ensure payment of the single payment Grant Payments. scheme in the future. Under the European Council regulation intro- 117. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Agri- ducing the single payment scheme, a farmer may culture and Food when area aid will be awarded have access to the scheme if he was an active to a person (details supplied) in County Limer- farmer during the reference years 2000, 2001 and ick. [19386/04] 2002 and received payments under the livestock Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. premia and/or arable aid schemes in those years. Walsh): The person named included a number of In addition, farmers for whom entitlements will forage parcels on his 2003 area aid application on be established must activate those entitlements in which a number of over-claims was established. 2005 by continuing to farm and submitting an Two of the land parcels which were over-claimed area aid declaration in that year. In general, farm- were declared by the person as forage but, in fact, 485 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 486 represented 17.61 hectares of forestry. An overall Agri-Aware detailed concerns that retailers had over-claim of 62.22 % was established. been the main beneficiaries of food price Under EU rules when the over-claim is greater increases and that producers had not benefited than 20% of the found area, a 100% penalty must proportionately. A report commissioned by be applied and no area aid linked payments can RGDATA, IBEC and the grocery wholesalers issue to the applicant. organisation IADT found that the main influ- ences on increasing food prices, albeit at less than Mayo Landslide. the rate of inflation, were processing and distri- 118. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Agri- bution costs, overheads and exchange rate fluctu- culture and Food if he has finalised his proposals ations rather than prices at farm gate. Other to compensate farmers affected by a landslide at reports have compared farm gate prices with Dooncarton, north Mayo; if a package of retail prices on a gross basis without analysing \100,000 was promised in respect of this in March processing, marketing and distribution costs. The 2004; if he has decided on its allocation; and if he product which leaves the farm gate is usually will make a statement on the matter. [19387/04] transformed before it appears on the retail shelf. Continuous change in consumer demand has Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. driven the increase in ready to go meals, prepared Walsh): The guidelines for this scheme have been foods and a range of end products, which is far drawn up and application forms have been pre- more extensive than that available 20 years pared. However, the scheme requires formal EU ago. approval as a state aid before it can proceed. My The vast bulk of the food we produce is Department is maintaining close liaison with the exported and returns from export markets have a European Commission on this and I expect that greater impact on farm prices and producer approval will be forthcoming shortly. returns than the retail structure of the domestic Grant Payments. market. Producer returns also only partly consist of market prices and cannot be seen in isolation 119. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Agri- from the direct supports under the Common culture and Food the reason a person (details Agriculture Policy. My Department will, for supplied) in County Wexford missed out on the example, pay \1.6 billion under EU funded agri- high rate of extensification; if there is an appeal cultural measures in 2004. This expenditure system available; and if he will make a statement mainly consists of direct payments to farmers, on the matter. [19388/04] worth on average \13,000 per farmer. The Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. decision to decouple payments will allow farmers Walsh): Under EU regulations, 2003 extens- to focus more clearly on the demands of the mar- ification premium at the higher rate of \80 per ket and of the final consumer. FAPRI Ireland’s qualifying animal may only be paid where the research forecasts some increase in prices and stocking density of the holding is less than 1.40 reduced input costs, which will impact positively livestock units per hectare. Where the stocking on farm incomes. density is between 1.40 and 1.80 livestock units My Department does not have any direct role per hectare, both figures inclusive, the rate of pre- in determining the prevailing prices charged for mium payable per qualifying animal is \40. food products on the retail market. In a single A stocking density of 1.4077 livestock units per market, food products are traded freely and hectare was established for the holding of the per- governments do not have the authority to set the son named. On 11 June 2004, two payable orders levels of mark up at different stages of processing amounting to \1,440 issued to her, representing and sale. her full entitlement in respect of 36 qualifying animals. There is an appeals system available to Good Farming Practice Programme. the person named. She may appeal the decision 121. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Agri- to the Agriculture Appeals Office, Kilminchy Court, Portlaoise, County Laois. Any appeal culture and Food the percentage of farm holdings made should be lodged with the appeals office scheduled to be inspected by his Department within a period of three months. under the good farming practice programme dur- ing 2004; the measures of the good farming prac- Farm Prices. tice to which the inspections relate; the pro- cedures governing the process through which the 120. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Agri- selection of farms for inspection is effected; if it culture and Food if a report has been compiled is a requirement that farmers be individually on the impact which the increasing grocery mar- advised prior to inspection of a holding being ket share of large supermarkets and retailers has undertaken: the nature and extent of such had on farm prices; and if he will carry out an notices; if decisions of inspecting officials may be investigation into this phenomenon. [19389/04] appealed; if he will provide a copy of the guide- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. lines as issued to officials with respect to the Walsh): Various reports have been compiled on inspection of farm holdings; and if he will make the factors influencing farm prices. A report by a statement on the matter. [19402/04] 487 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 488

Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. the cattle headage and area based compensatory Walsh): In accordance with EU regulations, good allowance schemes. Applicants for those schemes farming practice checks have been a feature of on are required to be resident within 70 miles of the farm inspections since 2001. My Department is holding. It is believed that the person named was obliged to inspect 10% of applicants for the ewe resident in America and was, therefore, ineligible premium scheme and 5% of applicants under the for grants paid to him under those schemes. My bovine premia schemes and the area based com- Department’s local office has written to the per- pensatory allowance scheme. son named asking him to provide documentary The measures checked are matters that would evidence regarding his residency in Ireland. On be considered good practice in normal farming receipt of this, a decision will be made regarding activity. Broadly, the checks relate to grassland payment of grants due to him under the suckler management, protection of watercourses and cow scheme. wells, protection of wildlife habitats, maintenance of farm boundaries, use of pesticides and chemi- Farm Size. cals, visual appearance of the farm and farmyard 124. Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Agri- and animal welfare. In accordance with the regu- culture and Food his views on whether there is a lation, the selection process is by risk analysis and need for major consolidation of holdings to allow relates to scheme criteria, the amount of aid farmers to achieve economies of scale in agricul- sought, the changes in declarations from year to tural production to allow them to achieve year and findings in previous years. Under most incomes from farming comparable to those in the schemes, the regulations provide that the inspec- non-farm sector. [19507/04] tion should be unannounced. In certain circum- stances notice may be given but must be limited Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. to 48 hours. Walsh): Over the ten year period 1992 to 2002 Under the protocol for direct payments to there has been a gradual consolidation in farm farmers applicants are entitled to seek a review size. The CSO figures show that there has been a of any decision taken. A person other than the gradual reduction in farm numbers, with the person who made the original decision is assigned number of farms of less than 20 hectares declining to carry out the review. In the event that a farmer by 30% over this period, while the number of is not satisfied with the outcome of the review he farms over 20 hectares has remained stable. This or she is then entitled to appeal to the appeals has resulted in an increase in the average farm office in Portlaoise. This office is independent of size from 27 hectares in 1992 to 32 hectares in the Department. In line with my commitment to 2002 which compares favourably with an EU ensuring the maximum level of transparency, a average of 19 hectares. copy of inspection guidelines is provided to One of the most significant trends in recent clients when requested. I am arranging to have a years has been the shift toward part-time farming, copy of the good farming practice manual for- with 42% of holders having an off-farm job. Part- warded to the Deputy. time farming must be recognised as providing an important option for those who wish to remain in Grant Payments. farming while supplementing their income from other sources. This situation is not unique to 122. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for Agri- Ireland, with 30% of EU farmers having an off- culture and Food when payment of a grant will farm income. The Government has a number of be made to a person (details supplied) in County Limerick; and if he will make a statement on the policies in place to facilitate and encourage struc- matter. [19404/04] tural change, including measures such as instal- lation aid, retirement, leasing and stamp duty. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. These measures bring about structural alterations Walsh): An application for grant aid on behalf of that work for the betterment of farming and gen- the person in question is currently being pro- eral society. cessed by the forest service of my Department. CSO data shows that on average farm house- The site which was planted earlier this year is holds have marginally higher disposable incomes subject to a field inspection. I have asked that this than other households, at 103% of the State aver- process be expedited and a decision given on the age. This is supported by ESRI data which indi- application as quickly as possible. cates that farm households have lower levels of consistent poverty than their urban or other 123. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Agri- rural counterparts. culture and Food if the outstanding suckler cow grants due to a person (details supplied) will be awarded; if a decision will be expedited; and if he Afforestation Programme. will make a statement on the matter. [19408/04] 125. Mr. O´ Fearghaı´l asked the Minister for Agriculture and Food his views on the number of Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. broad leaf deciduous trees being planted in the Walsh): My Department has been in communi- country; if his attention has been drawn to the cation with the person named regarding his eligi- fact that just 4% of Coillte stock falls into this bility for grants which he has been paid under category; if his Department has a strategy to pro- 489 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 490 mote the planting of such stock; and if he will of penalties set out in my Department’s booklet, make a statement on the matter. [19508/04] entitled Good Farming Practice, he is subject to a 10% penalty on all livestock premium and dis- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. advantaged area compensatory allowance pay- Walsh): Under the afforestation programme pro- ments. He has also been advised through his sol- vided in the rural development plan 2000-2006, icitor that he may appeal this decision to the Ireland is committed to 30% of planting to broad- Agriculture Appeals Office, Kilminchy Court, leaves by 2006. In 2003, broadleaf planting Portlaoise, County Laois. amounted to 28% of total planting. I am confi- dent the 30% target will be achieved by 2006. 127. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Agri- I understand that Coillte’s broadleaf stock rep- culture and Food if he has received all the neces- resents 4% of the company’s estate. More than sary documentation from a person (details 20% of the national forest estate is made up of supplied) in County Westmeath for their area aid broadleaves and I expect this level to increase in and other schemes; and if same will be dealt with the years ahead. as soon as possible. [19510/04]

Grant Payments. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. Walsh): The person named did not apply under 126. Mr. Ellis asked the Minister for Agri- any of the bovine premia schemes, other than the culture and Food if his Department will award suckler cow premium scheme. An application for the balance of premiums due to a person (details premium for 26 animals under the 2003 suckler supplied) in County Leitrim. [19509/04] cow premium scheme was received on 27 June Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. 2003. The 80% advance instalment, amounting to Walsh): The person named submitted three appli- \4,662.32, issued to the person named on 20 cations under the 2003 special beef premium October 2003 and the balancing payment of scheme: one on 21 February 2003, in respect of \1,165.58 issued on 30 March 2004. These rep- 15 animals; one on 26 November 2003, in respect resent payment in full in respect of the 26 animals of 68 animals and one on 31 December 2003, in applied on. respect of 97 animals. The 80% advance payment With regard to 2003 extensification premium, has issued in respect of 15 animals applied for on 11 June 2004, a payable order for \2,080 issued under the first application. to the person named, representing his full entitle- During 2003, 113 animals eligible for the ment in respect of the 26 animals that had already slaughter premium scheme were slaughtered qualified for payment of 2003 suckler cow pre- under the herd number of the person named. mium on his holding. Payment under the 2003 Seven of these were also eligible for the national ewe/supplementary premium and ewe national envelope top up on beef breed heifers. The 80% envelope was made to the person named on 21 advance payment has issued in respect of all ani- October 2003 and 10 March 2004, respectively. mals slaughtered. The person named applied for The person named was paid his full entitlement premium on 66 animals under the 2003 suckler of \3468.33 under the 2003 area based compensa- cow premium scheme. His 80% advance instal- tory allowance scheme on 23 September 2003. ment, amounting to \11,835.12, issued on 9 There is no record of an area aid application December 2003. having been received from the person named All outstanding payments under the 2003 under the 2004 area aid scheme. The closing date special beef premium, slaughter premium and for receipt of suckler cow applications for 2004 is suckler cow premium schemes, less a 10% 30 June 2004. deduction in respect of penalties for breaches of good farming practice, will issue shortly to the EU Directives. person named. A 10% deduction of the amount 128. Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for Agri- paid under the 2003 disadvantaged area com- culture and Food if his Department will go ahead pensatory allowance will also be made. with its action programme for the implemen- With regard to 2003 extensification premium, a tation of the EU nitrates directive even though stocking density of 1.2954 livestock units per hec- his attention has been drawn to the fact that this tare has already been established for the holding. proposal is unworkable and unaffordable and Payment of this premium, less a good farming that the general feeling is that it will damage practice penalty of 10%, cannot be made to the farming; his views on whether he should honour person named until he is paid his entitlement the Government’s commitments given in Sustain- under both the 2003 special beef premium and ing Progress; if his attention has been drawn to suckler cow premium schemes. the disastrous future effects if suppliers have to In regard to the good farming practice penal- cut stocking rates, consequently leading to an ties, the person named was convicted under increase in milk production costs; and if he will section 3 of the Local Government (Water make a statement on the matter. [19545/04] Pollution) Act 1977, as amended by the Local Government (Water Pollution) Amendment Act Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. 1990, on 5 March 2004 and in accordance with the Walsh): The implementation of the nitrates direc- terms and conditions of the schemes and the scale tive is, in the first instance, a matter for the Mini- 491 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 492

[Mr. Walsh.] In keeping with other commitments in Sustain- ster for the Environment, Heritage and Local ing Progress, I have already taken significant Government. Ireland is legally obliged to put into steps to address the possible costs at farm level effect an action programme for the further imple- of the implementation of the draft action pro- mentation of the nitrates directive. The European gramme. At the beginning of the year I made Court of Justice, in its judgment of 11 March changes in the farm waste management scheme 2004, held that Ireland had not fulfilled its obli- and the dairy hygiene scheme which will make gations under the nitrates directive by reason of these measures more accessible to a greater num- its failure to establish and implement an action ber of farmers and increase their monetary value. programme in accordance with Article 5 of the With effect from 1 June, I introduced changes to directive. It is open to the court, on the appli- the rural environment protection scheme which cation of the European Commission, to impose will deliver an average increase of 28% in pay- substantial fines against Ireland if early action is ments to participating farmers. In addition, the not taken to give full effect to the directive by scheme of capital allowances for expenditure on establishing and implementing an action farm pollution control has been extended to the programme. end of 2006. Furthermore, the terms of the action pro- gramme need to be finalised at an early date Cattle Disease Controls. given that continued EU co-funding of major 129. Mr. Callanan asked the Minister for Agri- schemes such as REPS, disadvantaged areas com- culture and Food the number of herds locked up pensatory allowances, early retirement and for- under the tuberculosis and brucellosis estry is conditional on satisfactory implemen- schemes. [19579/04] tation of the nitrates directive. The directive is also EU legislation with which farmers must com- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. ply under the single payment scheme. Walsh): The latest statistics show that on 1 June While Ireland must meet its obligations under 2004 there were 134 brucellosis restricted herds the directive, it is my objective and that of my and on 16 June 2004 there were 2,983 TB restric- colleague, the Minister for the Environment, ted herds. Heritage and Local Government, to ensure that it is implemented in a way that will not impact Single Payment Scheme. adversely on the viability of Irish farmers or 130. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Agri- impose unnecessary restrictions or obligations on culture and Food if his attention has been drawn them. A draft action programme prepared by the to the circumstances outlined in correspondence Department of the Environment, Heritage and (details supplied); and if he will make a statement Local Government, in conjunction with my on the matter. [19582/04] Department and in consultation with Teagasc, Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mr. was presented in December last to representa- Walsh): The position is that European Com- tives of the main farming organisations and other mission Regulation 795/2004 provides that when stakeholders. Written submissions on the draft single payment entitlements are being calculated action programme have been received from 70 for farmers affected by agri-environmental com- stakeholders, including all the main farming mitments during the reference period, care must organisations. A revised draft is now being pre- be taken to avoid “double compensation”. The pared and will be conveyed to the farming organ- Commission regulation gives farmers the option isations in the near future. of either getting the single payment based on a The implementation of the nitrates directive reference period when no stock reduction was in has been the subject of discussion between place and getting a reduced agri-environmental officials of both Departments and the farming pil- payment or getting the single payment based on lar under Sustaining Progress. Together with the the reference period 2000 to 2002 and getting an Minister for the Environment, Heritage and agri-environmental payment which includes an Local Government, I will meet farming organis- element of compensation for destocking. ations in the near future to discuss the matter For those farmers who are currently participat- further. The Government is committed under ing in REPS and who had reduced sheep numbers Sustaining Progress to using the flexibility in the during the reference period 2000-2002, my nitrates directive to seek European Commission Department intends to use that reference period approval for organic nitrogen limits of up to 250 in calculating the single payment. This means that kg per hectare a year to be allowable in appropri- the single payment will be based on years when ate circumstances. When the draft action pro- sheep numbers were reduced but the intention is gramme has been submitted to the Commission, that the farmers concerned, if they entered into Ireland will also submit a derogation proposal REPS contracts before January 2005, will be designed to take account of the unique character- entitled to keep the existing payment under istics of Irish agriculture. The objective will be to measure A for the duration of those contracts. achieve approval for appropriate derogation Individual farmers in this category will be able to arrangements in a manner that underpins the apply to my Department to exercise the option future of our commercial agriculture sector. outlined earlier. 493 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 494

My Department intends to use the average Disabled Drivers. amount paid in the reference years 1997-98 for 134. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Finance all farmers currently participating in the national the position regarding the interdepartmental compensation scheme. This means farmers con- report of the review group on the disabled driv- cerned will get the benefit of the ewe numbers ers’ and disabled passengers’ scheme; when he that they had prior to the destocking that took received this report; when he expects to publish place at the end of 1998. This will have to be off- the report; and if he will make a statement on the set by a reduction in the level of compensation matter. [19133/04] payable from 2005 onwards by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): I ment. The farmers concerned will not therefore received the interdepartmental report of the suffer any loss. review group on the disabled drivers’ and dis- abled passengers’, tax concessions, scheme in Decentralisation Programme. September 2002 and it has been under consider- ation in my Department. The report is a substan- 131. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Fin- tive one and needed to be studied carefully. This ance the risk analysis and the cost benefit analysis process has now been completed and the report which he has carried out or proposes to carry out will be made available shortly. in respect of decentralisation as it affects his Department. [19083/04] Decentralisation Programme. Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): My 135. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Fin- Department has completed its initial implemen- ance the number of persons who have registered tation plan as required by the decentralisation with the CAF to date; and the percentage of implementation group. This plan will require those who registered who did not select a further development as additional information location. [19134/04] emerges about the people, property and business Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): The cen- issues identified in the decentralisation imple- tral applications facility, CAF, was launched on mentation group’s report. Business units have 12 May 2004 and is being operated by the Civil already identified possible risks which will have Service Commission. Information and analysis on to be managed to ensure on time delivery of the applications from the CAF will only become decentralisation programme. Other risks may be available after 8 July next and will be provided to identified as the plan goes through further iter- the various interested parties, including the ations. Strategies to mitigate these risks will be decentralisation implementation group, staff and incorporated into the plans of the individual busi- management interests and so forth as soon as ness units. My Department will work to minimise possible. the cost impact of decentralisation. 132. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Fin- Public Service Recruitment. ance the average annual increase in salary costs, 136. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Finance overtime and travel to, from and in the the reason for making a person sit an examination decentralised offices in the three years following for the position of clerical officer in the public decentralisation compared to these costs for service for Dublin and making them sit a further those business units in the three years preceding examination if they wish also to go on the provin- decentralisation, in respect of the last decentralis- cial list; and if he will make a statement on the ation by his Department. [19098/04] matter. [19250/04] 133. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Fin- 137. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Finance ance the number of persons decentralised and the when the appointments to the provincial list posi- full duration of the project, in respect of the last tions of clerical officer in the public service will decentralisation by his Department; the number next be advertised; and if he will make a state- of internal and external transfers which were ment on the matter. [19251/04] required to obtain the requisite number of per- Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): I pro- sons decentralising; the amount of time necessary pose to answer Questions Nos. 136 and 137 to train decentralising persons and the percentage together. and duration of overlapping staff which was The Civil Service Commission advertised a required; and the additional costs for overtime, provincial competition for recruitment to clerical travel and subsistence incurred. [19113/04] officer for appointment to 16 locations in March 2003. There were a total of 8,604 applications and Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): I pro- a panel is in place for each of the 16 locations. pose to take Question Nos. 132 and 133 together. Candidates can track the progress of the panels No posts in the Department of Finance were on the Civil Service website at www.publicjobs.ie. decentralised as part of the last decentralisation To date, 49 assignments to provincial locations programme. have been made. 495 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 496

[Mr. McCreevy.] being investigated by the Revenue Com- Vacancies in provincial locations are filled missioners arising from the Ansbacher accounts from two sources, existing transfer requests from at the latest date for which figures are available; civil servants and from panels set up for locations the number of cases where settlements have been under provincial competitions run by the Civil agreed and the total amount paid to date; the Service Commission. There are no immediate number of cases still outstanding; if additional plans to advertise another provincial campaign. action has been taken by the Revenue Com- In the medium to longer term, it will be necessary missioners arising from the report of the to consider the development of regional recruit- Ansbacher inspectors; and if he will make a state- ment and promotion systems building on regional ment on the matter. [18611/04] arrangements. This will be the subject of further discussions with the Civil Service unions. Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): Iam advised by the Revenue Commissioners that their The most recent Dublin competition was Ansbacher review team has inquired into 289 advertised in September 2003. There was a total cases to date and 75 of these cases have con- of 3,703 applications and, to date, 158 assign- cluded settlements with the Revenue Com- ments have been made. This is a separate compe- missioners. The 289 cases, taking account of tition with its own regulations governing the com- spouses and connected companies, consist of 300 petition process. While some candidates may names. The 289 cases are made up of 179 cases have applied for both the Dublin and provincial listed on the High Court inspectors’ report and competitions, it is necessary for all candidates to 110 similar cases discovered by the Revenue undergo the selection process set out in the regu- Commissioners or listed on the authorised lations for that particular competition. This is to officer’s report. ensure that all applicants for a competition go through the same recruitment process and the A total of 211 cases have been under active order of merit that is produced reflects the out- investigation. The remaining cases consist of 62 come of the selection procedures conducted from non-resident persons, including 17 former Irish the eligible pool of candidates who applied for residents, 12 individuals who claimed the 1993 the post. amnesty provisions and four cases with insuf- ficient identity information. The investigation Departmental Properties. includes examining the tax position of disclosed entities and accumulating and assembling infor- 138. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Fin- mation on other connected entities. The number ance the number of buildings in the Dublin area of connected entities to cases under investigation which are currently allocated for decentralisation is now nearly 700. under the Government’s plans which have been The Revenue Commissioners continue to make renovated by the OPW during the past five years; use of their legislative powers to seek books, the nature of the renovation and the cost associ- records, documents and information in the cases ated with renovating the various Departments being investigated. Where appropriate, pros- concerned in each case; and if he will make a ecutions will be considered but these will depend statement on the matter. [19252/04] on the level of evidence available. The Revenue Minister of State at the Department of Finance Commissioners have made five successful appli- (Mr. Parlon): The OPW is currently in the pro- cations to the High Court for the production by cess of compiling and analysing a range of infor- financial institutions and third parties of books, mation in respect of the office space in Dublin, records and other documentation relevant to liab- both owned and leased, which is occupied by ilities of Ansbacher account holders. Some Departments and State-sponsored bodies ear- 150,000 documents have been received under the marked for decentralisation. The result of this terms of the High Court orders. Advanced invest- analysis will form the basis for the formulation of igative computer software is used in controlling options for the rationalisation of State accommo- and managing the documentation. \ dation in the Dublin area post decentralisation. To date a total of 42.79 million has been These options are likely to include: disposal of received, mostly by way of payments on account, State owned buildings; redevelopment of build- in respect of 87 cases. This is made up of the ings; early termination of leases; relocation of following. Departments/offices within the Dublin portfolio. \ The criteria that will be used in the rationalis- ation assessment process will include, inter alia, Cases involving Ansbacher the rental costs of leased properties, the market or Ansbacher type values of owned properties, the location of the arrangements 75 Cases 34.55 million various properties concerned and an appraisal of Other cases involving their general condition. offshore funds or deposits 12 Cases 8.24 million

Tax Collection. Total 87 Cases 42.79 million 139. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Finance The 75 cases which have concluded settlements the number of individuals, companies and trusts with the Revenue Commissioners consist of 40 497 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 498 cases which were settled on payments of \25.89 Aggregate results of the ongoing investigations million, included in the amount outlined, 25 non- have been published each year since 1998 in the resident cases which are covered by the pro- annual reports of the Revenue Commissioners. visions of double taxation agreements, eight Individual details of settlements have also been which had no additional liability and two which published where the provisions of section 1086 of were covered by the 1993 amnesty provisions. the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 applied. The Revenue Commissioners made an appli- cation under section 11 of the Companies Act Departmental Reports. 1990 for a copy of the High Court inspectors’ 141. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Fin- report, which was made available on 6 July 2002. ance further to departmental correspondence The information in this report has been carefully (details supplied), if the report has been com- considered as regards the tax liabilities of the per- pleted; its recommendations; when it will be pub- sons concerned. In addition, the Revenue Com- lished; and if he will make a statement on the missioners made a further application to the High matter. [19377/04] Court for access to the supporting papers to the High Court inspectors’ report. Judgment was Minister of State at the Department of Finance delivered by the President of the High Court on (Mr. Parlon): The report has not yet been com- 25 May 2004 to allow access to the supporting pleted. I expect that it will be available for publi- papers relating to clients of Ansbacher named in cation in the next two to three months. the High Court inspectors’ report and those per- sons and companies, including members of the Tax Yield. board, found by the High Court inspectors to 142. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for have failed to co-operate with their inquiry. Finance if he will use the \47 million collected The judgment also allows for the Revenue from tax defaulters to end, once and for all, the Commissioners to make application and ground- day care, respite care and residential waiting lists ing affidavit for the obtaining of information and for persons with intellectual disabilities. documents relating to any other individual or [19393/04] company. Access to documents is subject to the direction of the High Court. The matter as to the Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): With precise terms of the High Court order was regard to how the amount referred to by the adjourned for further directions by the High Deputy should be used, it is important to realise Court. The Revenue Commissioners have that provision for receipts from ongoing investi- informed me that the investigations are time con- gations is made each year as part of the projec- suming and complex and are likely to continue tions for total tax revenue. As such, they are for some time to come. included in the total resources that underpin the Government’s expenditure targets for the year. 140. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Finance To the extent that any of the figure to which he the number of individuals, companies and trusts refers may have been realised from special inves- being investigated by the Revenue Com- tigations, such receipts are once-off in nature and missioners arising from the Clerical Medical cannot be treated as “ordinary” or ongoing Insurance/NIB inquiry at the latest date for which resources. This fact has been recognised in the figures are available; the number of cases where past when such once-off receipts from, for settlements have been agreed and the total example, tax amnesties or the sale of State assets, amount paid to date; the number of cases still have been used mainly to meet liabilities with no outstanding; and if he will make a statement on recurring costs, such as reducing our debt burden the matter. [18612/04] or providing for future pension needs. I remind the Deputy that I provided \10.1 Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): Iam billion in the 2004 Estimates allocation for the informed by the Revenue Commissioners that Department of Health and Children, which rep- arising from the Clerical Medical Insurance/NIB resented an increase of 8% on the 2003 outturn. inquiry, 452 cases have been targeted for investi- For the most part, it is for the Minister for Health gation. To date, 291 cases have been settled on and Children to allocate these resources in what- payment of tax, interest and penalties amounting ever way he sees fit with regard to the provision to a total of \45.35 million. A further 113 cases of health services. In 2004, some \1.9 billion is have been finalised with no additional liability being invested in services for persons with dis- arising. The remaining 48 cases are the subject of abilities, covering the intellectual, physical, sen- ongoing investigation, in respect of which \5.02 sory, autism and mental illness areas. This rep- million has been paid on account. resents an increase of \1.2 billion since 1997. In the course of 2003, three cases were pros- ecuted, with fines being imposed in two cases and Decentralisation Programme. a suspended sentence imposed in the other. The individuals concerned have also settled their tax 143. Mr. Haughey asked the Minister for Fin- affairs and paid the outstanding tax, together with ance when a decision will be made regarding the interest and penalties. A further case is currently transfer location of civil servants working in ICT under investigation with a view to prosecution. in the Department of Social and Family Affairs; 499 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 500

[Mr. Haughey.] support it; and the position that Ireland has and if he will make a statement on the matter. adopted. [19615/04] [19394/04] Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): The Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): A Tobin tax was considered in a number of fora, decision on the decentralised locations for ICT including the informal ECOFIN meeting at Liege staff in the Department of Social and Family on 22 September 2001. The Belgian Presidency Affairs will be made by the Government as soon indicated that it wished to pursue the matter in as possible. The decision will take full account of the context of a general study to be carried out the conclusions outlined in paragraph 5.19 to 5.22 by the Commission on the issue of globalisation. of the report of the decentralisation implemen- Most Finance Ministers, myself included, con- tation group, dated 31 March 2004. tinue to have reservations about the proposal. We believed that it was not clear that a further exam- Stamp Duty. ination of the issue by the Commission would ensure that satisfactory answers would be given 144. Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Fin- to the many questions concerning the tax, includ- ance if he will consider an abatement of stamp ing the difficulties relating to practical implemen- duty to encourage farmers to swap land, with no tation of the tax; its doubtful effect on short-term or little cash changing hands, to facilitate consoli- speculative capital movements; its conflict with dation of fragmented holdings into workable the basic tenet of free capital movement in the units. [19528/04] EU; its disproportionate effect on small business Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): Stamp and consumers; the probability that the tax would duty is a tax on documents, mostly legal docu- simply drive participants into other non-taxable ments, used in the transfer of property. When a alternatives; and the negative impact on liquidity property is purchased or swapped, stamp duty is in the foreign exchange market. paid on the document that transfers ownership. At a formal ECOFIN meeting on 16 October Stamp duty is a significant contributor to the 2001 it was agreed that the Commission would Exchequer. Its receipts allow for a broader tax carry out a study on globalisation and examine base than would otherwise be possible and form the arguments for and against a Tobin tax. On 14 an important element of State revenues. February 2002 a study, entitled Responses to the The stamp duty code contains a significant Challenges of Globalisation, was published. It exemption for transfers of land to young trained concluded that the Tobin tax, “while as a source farmers, under the age of 35 years, provided they of additional revenue a currency transaction tax have attained relevant educational qualifications. may look appealing, its feasibility is, however, not It encourages the more productive use of agricul- demonstrated”. There have been no further tural land. In the 2004 Finance Act I updated the developments at EU level on the possible intro- list of educational qualifications and made certain duction of the Tobin tax. The European Com- changes to the standards that must be attained in mission has not presented a formal proposal on order to qualify for the exemption. the topic. I am not aware of any specific devel- The proposal suggested by the Deputy would opments by an international agency nor am I in a narrow the tax base. It would also inevitably lead position to comment on the current policy posi- to calls for other concessions to be introduced tion of other governments. into the stamp duty code. I do not intend to intro- Apart from consideration in an EU context, duce an abatement. the issue was discussed by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs on 12 January Decentralisation Programme. 2000. Officials from my Department attended the 145. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Finance meeting. Its chairman acknowledged that Ireland the progress made in decentralising the offices of could not act unilaterally in the matter. He also the Revenue Commissioners to Newcastle West, pointed to the practical difficulties that would be County Limerick. [19610/04] caused at EU level by such a tax given that not all EU members participate in the euro. Ireland Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): Progress must be mindful that we have a much higher level on the decentralisation of Revenue staff to the of trade and capital flows with currencies outside location is dependent on a number of factors, the eurozone compared to other euro countries. including the availability of suitable accommo- Therefore, the tax would be likely to have a dis- dation. Negotiations are ongoing with OPW. I proportionate impact on Irish business and con- hope to have a decision on a site in the near sumers. As indicated in replies to previous ques- future. tions, I do not propose to introduce such a tax as I remain unconvinced of its feasibility. Tax Code. Prison Medical Service. 146. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Fin- ance the assessment that was undertaken within 147. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Foreign his Department of the proposal for a Tobin tax; Affairs the medical attention that is being given if it was submitted to an international agency for to a person (details supplied) to relieve their consideration; the countries that have offered to medical condition. [19070/04] 501 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 502

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): Iam consider how these controls can be improved and aware of the case to whom the Deputy refers. On identify those responsible for putting controls in 10 April 2003 and again on 11 June 2004, the Irish place. Some preliminary risk analysis has already embassy in London contacted the governor’s been undertaken in the context of preparation of office of HMP Full Sutton in relation to the my Department’s decentralisation implemen- health of this person. The governor’s office con- tation plan. Further work will be done in advance firmed that his medical needs were assessed, that of the workshop. In developing and putting into he was referred to and under the care of NHS effect our implementation plan, we will seek to consultants, and he was receiving the recom- maximise the potential benefits accruing to the mended medication for his condition. On my Department and its staff while minimising any instructions, the Irish embassy in London again additional costs that may arise. contacted the governor’s office in the past week. 149. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for For- It was confirmed that the individual concerned eign Affairs the average annual increase in salary was taken to an outside hospital on 23 June for costs, overtime and travel to, from and in the a CT scan and that action will be taken on any decentralised offices in the three years following recommendations arising from this test. My decentralisation compared to these costs for Department will continue to keep in contact with those business units in the three years preceding the prison authorities. It will provide all appropri- decentralisation, in respect of the last decentralis- ate consular assistance to the individual ation by his Department. [19099/04] concerned. 150. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for For- Decentralisation Programme. eign Affairs the number of persons decentralised and the full duration of the project, in respect of 148. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for For- the last decentralisation by his Department; the eign Affairs the risk analysis and the cost-benefit number of internal and external transfers which analysis that he carried out or proposes to carry were required to obtain the requisite number of out in respect of decentralisation as it affects his persons decentralising; the amount of time neces- Department. [19084/04] sary to train decentralising persons and the per- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): In centage and duration of overlapping staff that accordance with the timetable set out in the was required; and the additional costs for over- report of the working group on the accountability time and travel and subsistence incurred. of secretaries general and accounting officers, the [19114/04] Mullarkey report, my Department is putting in place a risk management programme. As the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): I Mullarkey report envisaged, the risk management propose to take Questions Nos. 149 and 150 programme will identify and address strategic, together. operational, financial and reputational risks and The Department of Foreign Affairs established establish procedures for mitigating those risks. a passport sub-office in Cork city in 1987. Two of Under the Government’s recently announced the original three posts were filled from within decentralisation programme, my Department’s the Department. The third officer came from development co-operation directorate shall another Department. The three officers were decentralise to Limerick. Work on the establish- given appropriate training in the passport office ment of a formal risk management system for the in Dublin before taking up duty in Cork. The directorate’s overseas aid programme com- staffing complement of the office was increased menced in 2002. Following a pilot programme in in the intervening years as a consequence of its Zambia, a series of risk management workshops upgrade to full passport issuing status with was held in the programme country missions and responsibility for processing all applications from risk registers were developed. Risk reporting is the Munster area. This was done in line with sig- now integrated into the regular aid mission nificant annual increases in passport demand reporting system. The assessment and manage- since 1987. Its current staff complement is 56 ment of risk has become a key element of pro- posts. gramme approval procedures. The roll-out of for- The Office of Public Works is responsible for mal risk management throughout the DCD at the provision of office accommodation. No sig- headquarters is under way and is expected to be nificant costs arose for my Department in connec- completed by the end of 2004. tion with the establishment of the Cork office. It The Department plans to hold a further work- was established as a new business unit. Therefore, shop in September to deal specifically with the the type of cost comparisons sought by the risks associated with decentralisation. It will take Deputy cannot be made. account of the wider implications of decentralis- Irish Language. ation for the Department in general as well as for DCD. The aim will be to identify key risks, iden- 151. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for For- tify and assess the adequacy of existing controls, eign Affairs the progress that was made during 503 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 504

[Mr. O’Dowd.] officers, a stagiaire and an additional clerical Ireland’s EU Presidency in regard to having Irish officer. recognised as an official EU language; if he The following salary scales apply: expects that Irish will be recognised as an official EU language within the lifetime of the Govern- Grade Core Salary scale ment, in view of the fact that it is a commitment number in the Programme for Government. [19142/04] \ 152. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Foreign Counsellor 1 69,194-85,589 Affairs the progress that was made during First Secretary 1 52,919-65,985 Ireland’s EU Presidency in regard to having Irish Third Secretary 1 28,312-50,112 recognised as an official EU language; if he Clerical Officer 1 18,736-30,384 expects that Irish will be recognised as an official EU language within the lifetime of the Govern- Overtime, travel and subsistence expenses are ment, in view of the fact that it is a commitment paid in accordance with normal Civil Service in the programme for Government. [19143/04] regulations. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): I propose to take Questions Nos. 151 and 152 Foreign Restrictions. together. 155. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Foreign The question of the status of Irish in the EU is Affairs if the Government will make represen- not specifically connected with Ireland’s EU tations to the Israeli authorities regarding the Presidency or with the recently agreed consti- restrictions being placed on a person (details tutional treaty. The Irish language already has full supplied) despite the recent court decision in treaty status in the EU. Earlier this year we estab- their case. [19396/04] lished an interdepartmental working group to Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): The analyse all the issues involved in this complex restrictions placed on the person named are the area with a view to identifying opportunities to subject of proceedings before the Israeli courts. further enhance the status of the Irish language Outside interference would not be helpful or in the EU. Ministers are studying the working appropriate while those proceedings are in train. group’s report to identify how we might best pro- ceed in the matter with the EU institutions and Departmental Staff. other member states. The recognition of Irish as 156. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Foreign an official and working language of the EU would Affairs the number and grade of personnel in his require an amendment of Regulation 1/1958 that Department dealing with Latin America; their governs the EU’s translation system. Its amend- role and function; and his views on whether the ment by the Council of Ministers would require full potential in trade, manufacturing and invest- the unanimous support of member states. ment of the region can be achieved. [19604/04]

EU Summits. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): A total of four officers are normally assigned to the 153. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for For- Latin America and Caribbean section of the pol- eign Affairs if he will report on the most recent itical division of my Department, filling posts at EU summit in Brussels. [19254/04] counsellor, first secretary, third secretary and clerical officer level. Its staffing complement was Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): I temporarily increased for the duration of the EU refer the Deputy to my reply to Question No. 8 Presidency by one additional first secretary-assist- on 24 June. ant principal officer and will return to its normal level in the near future. Departmental Staff. The section’s role and function is to advise the 154. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Foreign Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Government Affairs the number of civil servants employed in on developments in Latin America and the Carib- the non-proliferation section of his Department; bean. It also contributes to the formulation of Irish foreign policy for the region in line with the the salaries of same; and the annual cost of run- Department’s strategy statement for 2003-2005. ning the section. [19395/04] In consultation with my Department’s EU, bilat- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): A eral economic relations, cultural and develop- total of four officers are normally assigned to the ment co-operation divisions, the section works to disarmament and non-proliferation section. They pursue closer bilateral relations with Latin Amer- fill posts at counsellor, first secretary, third sec- ican countries. Through active participation in retary and clerical officer level. The staffing com- EU common foreign and security policy meetings plement of the section was temporarily increased it also contributes to the development of EU pol- for the duration of the EU Presidency by two icy on Latin America. additional first secretaries-assistant principal A first secretary, a third secretary and a clerical officer are assigned to the section of the bilateral 505 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 506 economic relations division that deals, inter alia, tive growth in the region’s per capita gross dom- with Latin America. The division has overall estic product, after six years of decline or stag- responsibility for the enhancement of Ireland’s nation. Ireland has resident embassies in Brasilia, trade and economic relationships. It was closely Buenos Aires and Mexico City. involved in preparations for the Taoiseach’s visit to Mexico in January 2003 and the President’s vis- Trade Relations. its to Argentina, Chile and Brazil last March. 157. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Foreign Those visits were accompanied by trade missions. Affairs the extent of bilateral trade between Latin America accounts for a relatively small Ireland and Cuba for each of the past five years; proportion of total Irish trade. On an individual and the trade sectors involved. [19605/04] country basis, Mexico ranks first as Ireland’s larg- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): In est trading partner in the region. Latin America 2003 trade between Cuba and Ireland reached accounts for a relatively small proportion of total over \1.7 million. Our trade with Cuba is modest Irish trade. Irish exports to Mexico stood at \500 and tends to fluctuate considerably, as shown in million in 2003, compared with \141 million to the following tables for the years 1999 to 2003, Brazil, \42 million to Chile and \24 million to inclusive. Argentina. Economic prospects for the entire Irish exports to Cuba were valued at \521,000 region are improving and may offer new trade in 2003. Imports from Cuba were valued at \1.265 and investment opportunities for Irish companies. million, an increase of 34% over 2002. Last year Improvements in the world economy, together Ireland’s principal exports were in the categories with increased trade growth, should boost Latin of cork and wood manufactures and beverages. America’s economic growth over the medium Imports from Cuba in 2003 were primarily in the term. The United Nations has forecast growth in fruit and vegetable category, though tobacco the region at around 4% in 2004, as well as posi- products made up one-fifth of total imports.

Trade with Cuba 1999-2003

Exports \000 Imports \000 Balance \000 Total Trade

1999 677 603 +74 1,280 2000 2,057 801 +1,256 2,858 2001 880 1,211 331 2,091 2002 189 945 756 1,134 2003 521 1,265 744 1,786

The development of the Cuban market is not a eral Affairs and External Relations Council on 14 major focus of Ireland’s export promotion activi- June 2004. ties as trade is marginal and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. As a trading partner Bilateral Agreements. with Ireland, Cuba ranked No. 136 in 2003. 159. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the extent of bilateral agreements that Ministerial Travel. exist between Ireland and Cuba; and if agree- 158. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Foreign ments exist in the area of drugs control and Affairs the number of visits by Irish ministers to movement of drugs and in the area of prisoner Cuba in the past five years; the Ministers involved transfer. [19607/04] in each case; and the number of official invi- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): An tations issued by Cuban authorities. [19606/04] agreement between the Government of Ireland and the Government of Cuba on air transport Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen): One entered into force on 8 June 1991. It provided official visit was made in the past five years. At for the establishment of air services between and the invitation of the Cuban Government the then beyond our respective territories. Proposals for Minister of State at the Department of Finance agreements on combating illicit traffic in narcotic and Office of Public Works, Deputy Cullen, vis- drugs and psychotropic substances, mutual assist- ited Cuba to attend the South Summit of the ance in criminal matters and the transfer of sen- group of 77 on 10 to 14 April 2000. I am aware tenced prisoners have been received in the of 11 more official invitations to visit Cuba in that Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform period that Ministers did not accept. from the Cuban authorities. Draft agreements are Since 5 June 2003 Ireland and its EU partners being considered in the Department of Justice, have decided to limit bilateral high level govern- Equality and Law Reform and its consultations mental visits to Cuba in protest at the continuing with relevant agencies and interested parties are flagrant violation of human rights and fundamen- ongoing. Following completion of these pro- tal freedoms of members of the peaceful oppo- cesses, matters will be decided in the context of sition. The measure was reaffirmed by the Gen- the outcome of aforementioned consultations and 507 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 508

[Mr. Cowen.] 178. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education the need for such agreements with third coun- and Science the meetings his Department had tries generally. with a local authority in determining the popu- lation figures for an area (details supplied) when Arts Education. a school seeks capital funding for a project. [19046/04] 160. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for Education and Science the efforts being made Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. through the Irish Presidency to have arts in edu- Dempsey): I propose to take Questions Nos. 161, cation given a focus in either the year 2005 or a 173 to 176, inclusive, and 178 together. year soon after in line with the designation in The large-scale building project for the school 2004 of the sport in education topic. [19370/04] referred to by the Deputies is listed in section 8 Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. of the 2004 school building programme which is Dempsey): The Irish Presidency in the education published on my Department’s website at sector had a full agenda. It succeeded in making www.education.ie. This project is at an advanced substantial progress on a number of important stage of architectural planning, detail design and areas such as lifelong guidance and the Europass bill of quantities. It was assigned a band 2 rating framework for transparency of qualifications and in accordance with the published criteria for competencies. The Netherlands Presidency will prioritising large scale projects. discuss the importance and position of education The budget announcement regarding multi- and culture in a Union of 25 member states. Pro- annual capital envelopes will enable me to adopt posal for actions at EU level regarding education a multi-annual framework for the schools build- in the arts could be considered in this context. ing programme. It will give greater clarity on pro- jects that are not progressing in this year’s pro- Schools Building Projects. gramme. I will make a further announcement during the year. Three prefabricated classrooms 161. Mr. O´ Fearghaı´l asked the Minister for were approved for the school as an interim Education and Science the steps his Department measure and to alleviate accommodation diffi- intends to take to deal with overcrowding in a culties. Its school authority, County Kildare school (details supplied) in County Kildare in vocational education committee, is aware of the which enrolment continues to rise; and when the measure. proposed extension to the school will be allowed The country is divided into post-primary catch- to proceed. [19012/04] ment areas and each area has a post-primary edu- 173. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education cation centre. The areas were drawn up in the and Science the position regarding an application late 1960s in the context of the free education by a school (details supplied) for capital fund- scheme. The catchment boundaries were deter- ing. [19041/04] mined following consultation with local edu- cational interests and the intention was that cer- 174. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education tain primary schools would feed exclusively into and Science if his attention was drawn to the fact each centre. My Department endeavours to pro- that in September 120 first year students will join vide accommodation to meet the educational a school (details supplied) in County Kildare needs of the catchment area. seeking capital funding for an extension and that As much as 47% of the school’s intake comes this figure is 30% greater than any other year in from outside the catchment area. Apart from the the school’s history; and if his attention was fact that this is not a sustainable position, taking further been drawn to the effect that such num- almost half of the pupil intake from outside of its bers will have on the safety and security of the catchment area impacts negatively on at least one school and the problems in organising classes due other local school in the general area. It is a mat- to the positioning of prefabs. [19042/04] ter for the school’s management authority to limit its enrolment to within its catchment area. 175. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education Ongoing dialogue with local authority officials is and Science if his attention was drawn to the fact an integral element of the workload of officials of that a school (details supplied) in County Kildare my Department’s school planning section. They with a catchment area of 17 primary schools, work on a broad range of issues, including the including two primary schools in the town, changing demographics of an area. applied either years ago for capital funding and is still on his Department’s list; and his plans to Site Acquisitions. advance the application. [19043/04] 162. Mr. O´ Fearghaı´l asked the Minister for 176. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education Education and Science the progress achieved in and Science if his attention was drawn to the sup- acquiring a site for a school (details supplied). port for and concerns of a number of multi- [19013/04] national companies about the development of a school (details supplied) in County Kildare; and Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. his views on overcoming the concerns of such Dempsey): The OPW’s property management companies. [19044/04] section acts on behalf of my Department on site 509 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 510 acquisitions generally. It is exploring the possi- ism at a school (details supplied) in Dublin 24; if bility of acquiring a site for the school. It would his attention was drawn to the clear need to fast- be inappropriate for me to comment on a specific track a response to deal with these difficulties on site due to the commercial sensitivity of site an important local educational campus; and if acquisitions. The relevant information will be officials of his Department will visit the school placed on my Department’s website when a site and meet parents and staff to discuss options. is acquired. [19017/04]

Schools Amalgamation. 168. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science if his attention was drawn to 163. Mr. O´ Fearghaı´l asked the Minister for the vandalism carried out at a school (details Education and Science the progress that has been supplied) in Dublin 24; and the measures he pro- achieved in the proposed amalgamation of the poses to introduce to support the pupils, parents three existing post-primary schools in Kildare and teachers associated with the school. town; and if a site was acquired for a new com- [19036/04] munity school. [19014/04] 169. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Edu- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. cation and Science if over \24,000 in repairs was Dempsey): My Department has agreed to amal- spent after attacks on (details supplied) in Dublin gamate the three post-primary schools and to 24; if preventative measures are a priority for his purchase a site to facilitate it. The process of Department; and if an application from the identifying and acquiring a suitable site is school’s management is being considered. ongoing. [19037/04] Public Private Partnerships. 170. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Edu- 164. Mr. O´ Fearghaı´l asked the Minister for cation and Science if his attention was drawn to Education and Science if his Department pro- the different groups and Departments associated poses to use the public private partnership pro- with a school (details supplied) in Dublin 24; and cess in the delivering of new school buildings in if, in the interest of co-operation he will initiate County Kildare. [19015/04] a meeting to discuss the ongoing vandalism and attacks on the school. [19038/04] Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Dempsey): Consideration of any new PPP project Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. will be based on an evaluation of the completed Dempsey): I propose to take Questions Nos. 166 pilot PPP schools project. A thorough assessment and 168 to 170, inclusive, together. of affordability of any new project will also take I can appreciate the concern of the school com- place in the context of the competing demands on munity at the wanton vandalism of school prop- the capital funding envelopes going forward. erty. In the first instance though, the management authorities of the school should report the matter Schools Building Projects. to local gardaı´. Local gardaı´ are best placed to provide practical advice and support and to make 165. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for Edu- recommendations as to how best to mitigate the cation and Science if he received a business plan potential risk to the school. Most Garda stations for a school building (details supplied) in County have a crime prevention officer on the staff who Monaghan; when the college can expect to have will work with management authorities. If the the necessary building work carried out either by Garda recommend equipment that cannot be Community Enterprise Limited or by his Depart- procured from normal funding sources an appli- ment to make it a single campus school; and if he is aware that the school straddles both sides of cation for contingency funding can be made to the N2 national primary road and this is the schools building section. extremely dangerous for everyone concerned. The school may apply for funding for long-term [19016/04] security measures required at the school as recommended by the Garda. The school’s man- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. agement authorities may apply for funding under Dempsey): My Department’s school planning the 2005 summer works scheme. Details of the section received documentation from the school’s scheme will be announced later this year. authorities. All capital projects are being reviewed with a view to inclusion as part of a Special Educational Needs. multi-annual schools building programme from 2005, details of which will be announced later 167. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for this year. Education and Science about a special needs assistant appointed for a person (details supplied) School Security. in County Donegal. [19018/04] 166. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Edu- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. cation and Science if he will take immediate and Dempsey): My Department received an appli- effective action in respect of the serious concerns cation for a special needs assistant for the pupil. of the local community regarding ongoing vandal- My officials are liaising with my Department’s 511 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 512

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] Question No. 178 answered with Question inspectorate and a response will issue to the No. 161. school shortly. School Security. Questions Nos. 168 to 170, inclusive, answered 179. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Edu- with Question No. 166. cation and Science if an application was made under the summer works programme by a school Site Aquisitions. (details supplied) in Dublin 24 for securing grills 171. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for on windows. [19049/04] Education and Science if his Department Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. received an application from the committee of a Dempsey): The school did not make an appli- school (details supplied) in County Galway ask- cation under the scheme. It is open to the school’s ing for a site to be acquired for an educate management authorities to apply for security together secondary school in Galway; if he sanc- measures under the 2005 summer works scheme. tioned the application; and its position. Details of the scheme will be announced later this [19039/04] year. In the meantime the authorities may expend Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. funding under the grant scheme for minor works Dempsey): Correspondence was received from to address urgently required security measures. City of Galway Vocational Education Committee on post-primary provision on the east side of Gal- Schools Building Projects. way city. Officials in my Department are 180. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Edu- reviewing the provision of post-primary edu- cation and Science if his Department was con- cation in the City and all information will be tacted about the need for a primary school in taken into account. Westbrook-Saggart Abbey; and if he is aware that the local community wants a school. Special Educational Needs. [19058/04] 172. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Edu- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. cation and Science , further to Parliamentary Dempsey): My Department’s planning section Question No. 126 on 6 May, the position of an meets the planning department of the South Dub- application for funding to provide a special class- lin County Council on a regular basis. They dis- room with modifications for wheelchair access for cussed the need for additional educational pro- a school (details supplied) in County Louth. vision. As a result sites for primary schools were [19040/04] reserved at Fortunestown and Saggart. Further Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. consultations on new schools are needed with the Dempsey): Recently my Department’s technical local authority. Topics for discussion is the rate staff visited the school. They noted the modifi- and likely timescale of housing developments and cations required to facilitate the special class for the capacity of existing schools in the area to September. The schools building section is exam- meet the anticipated demand. ining the technical report. My Department will The overall enrolment trend in schools in the contact the school authorities very shortly. Tallaght area is downward. In light of the pro- posed additional housing in the area, my Depart- Questions Nos. 173 to 176, inclusive, answered ment will continue to monitor developments. Any with Question No. 161. needs identified will be addressed by increasing existing school capacity or providing new schools, Schools Building Projects. as appropriate. 177. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education and Science the criteria for a school to move from Departmental Funding. board two to board one of the scale as adopted 181. Mr. Aylward asked the Minister for Edu- by his Department in administering the capital cation and Science the reason for the delay in funding for schools. [19045/04] payment by his Department to contractors employed on a school project (details supplied) Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. in County Waterford. [19059/04] Dempsey): I presume that the Deputy is referring to the criteria used for prioritising large-scale Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. schools building projects. They are published in Dempsey): The client is County Kilkenny the schools building programme and available on Vocational Education Committee. It is respon- my Department’s website www.education.ie. The sible for the management and delivery of the pro- guidelines are used in assessing the priority to be ject. Recently my Department received the final afforded to projects. They are applied at the account for the project and my technical staff are initiation of each project and reviewed as neces- examining it. My Department will keep the VEC sary at each stage up to construction. advised of developments. 513 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 514

State Examinations. are assessed without reference to either their par- ents’ income or address. 182. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science if he is satisfied with the pro- When assessing the means of students other visions being made to accommodate children and than independent mature students, the Acts spec- adults with special needs sitting their State exam- ify that the students’ means and those of their inations. [19063/04] parents or guardians must be below a prescribed limit. The provision requires that parental income Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. be taken into account irrespective of circum- Dempsey): I formally established the State Exam- stances in any case where the student is not an inations Commission on 6 March 2003. It is statu- independent mature student. Generally speaking, torily responsible for all operational matters for candidates continue to be assessed under the the certificate examinations. The commission terms and conditions of the scheme appropriate operates a scheme of reasonable accommodations to their year of entry. Accordingly, candidates for candidates with special needs at the examin- who were not classified as independent mature ations. The range of accommodations available to students at the time of entry to an approved candidates includes the use of readers, scribes, course may not generally be assessed as such for tape recorders and the use of computer tech- the duration of their course. nology in certain cases. The students may also There is provision for candidates who are re- apply to have a part of an examination waived entering as mature students, following a break in and to be marked out of 100% on the balance. study of at least one year, to pursue or complete The school authority, on behalf of its candidates, an approved course for the first time. Such candi- applies for accommodations. Each case is con- dates may be assessed under the terms of the sidered on its merits. School authorities may also scheme appropriate to the year in which they re- approve rest periods, taking of medicine into the enter. Candidates who were not independent examination hall and the use of low vision aids mature students at the time of entry to an without recourse to the commission. I am satis- approved course may be reclassified as same for fied that there are appropriate arrangements to the purpose of completing a course or commen- accommodate students with special needs sitting cing a subsequent course. Unless students meet the examinations. the prescribed age requirement at the time of entry or re-entry to an approved course, they may Higher Education Grants. not be assessed as an independent mature student 183. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Edu- under the terms of the scheme. cation and Science if an application for a higher The candidate in question does not meet the education grant by a person (details supplied) in requirements to be assessed as an independent County Louth can be reviewed. [19064/04] mature student. His reckonable income exceeds the prescribed income limits for a grant. I regret Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. that it is not possible to allow grant aid in this Dempsey): Under the terms of my Department’s case. grant scheme, maintenance grants are available to eligible students pursuing approved under- Schools Building Projects. graduate courses in other EU member states, including the UK. Students attending approved 184. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Edu- courses in other member states are subject to the cation and Science when funding will be made same conditions of funding as students attending available for the new Ennistymon community approved courses in the State. The main con- school, County Clare. [19069/04] ditions of funding relate to age, residence, means, Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. nationality and previous academic attainment. Dempsey): When I published the 2004 schools The scheme operates under the Local Auth- building programme I outlined that my strategy orities (Higher Education Grants) Acts 1968 to would be grounded in capital investment based 1992. These Acts define a mature student to on multi-annual allocations. My officials are mean a person: Of not less than 23 years of age, reviewing all projects that were not authorised to or such other age as may stand specified for the proceed as part of the 2004 schools building pro- time being in regulations made by the Minister gramme. This is being done with a view to includ- with the consent of the Minister for Finance, who ing them as part of a multi-annual schools build- have secured places in approved institutions and ing programme from 2005. I expect to make have reached that age on the 1st day of January, further announcements during the year. The pro- or such other date as may be prescribed from posed project in County Clare will be considered time to time by the Minister with the consent of in this regard. the Minister for Finance, in the year of entry to such institutions. An independent mature student Decentralisation Programme. is defined to mean a mature student who was not ordinarily resident at home with his or her par- 185. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Edu- ents from the October preceding their entry to an cation and Science the risk analysis and the cost- approved course. Independent mature students benefit analysis that was carried out or proposed 515 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 516

[Mr. R. Bruton.] Special Educational Needs. to be carried out in respect of decentralisation as 188. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Edu- it affects his Department. [19085/04] cation and Science his views on the need to Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. develop specific programmes in secondary Dempsey): The first report of the decentralisation schools to assist children who had special help in implementation group recommended that each primary school; and if he will develop pro- decentralising Department or agency should pre- grammes to track them in the secondary school pare an implementation plan and identify the system and to provide them, when possible, with risks associated with decentralisation and the additional help particularly for literacy skills. means of mitigating them. My Department’s [19131/04] implementation plan includes a risk analysis and suggested mitigation measures. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. The Deputy will be aware from the group’s first Dempsey): My Department allocates teacher report that Office of Public Works is due to pre- posts and special needs assistant posts to second pare a public sector benchmark for value for level schools and vocational education commit- money purposes. A more detailed analysis will be tees to cater for pupils with special educational undertaken when the information is available. needs. Applications for such support are made to my Department by the relevant school authority. 186. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Edu- Each application is considered on the basis of the cation and Science the average annual increase in assessed needs of a pupil. The nature and level of salary costs, overtime and travel to, from and in the support provided is determined by the advice the decentralised offices in the three years follow- of the psychological service. Learning support or ing decentralisation compared to these costs for remedial teacher services are provided to all those business units in the three years preceding second level schools. The service is focused on decentralisation, in respect of the last decentralis- students with literacy or numeracy difficulties. ation by his Department. [19100/04] My Department’s teacher education section has developed a strategy designed to meet the Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. continuing professional development needs of Dempsey): The last decentralisation arrangement personnel working with children with special edu- involving my Department took place in 1995. The cational needs. It involves a major expansion of information requested is no longer available. the range of postgraduate professional training Such details are not normally retained for longer programmes available to teachers in the special than seven years. needs area and the establishment of the special 187. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Edu- education support service to support school staff cation and Science the number of persons locally. I am confident that the advent of the decentralised and the full duration of the project, national council for special education will prove in respect of the last decentralisation by his of major benefit in developing policy in the area. Department; the number of internal and external It will ensure that all children with special edu- transfers that were required to obtain the requi- cational needs receive the support they require site number of persons for decentralising; the when and where they require it. amount of time necessary to train decentralising persons and the percentage and duration of over- 189. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Edu- lapping staff that was required; and the additional cation and Science the reason a school (details costs for overtime and travel and subsistence supplied) in Dublin 4 received no decision on its incurred. [19115/04] application for resource teaching hours for two persons; if his Department proposes a change of Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. policy to allocate a support teacher for every 150 Dempsey): My Department last decentralised to children on a school’s roll; and the way in which Tullamore in 1995 and there are 187 posts at that this would apply to this school that has around location at present. Some of the staff moved from 100 pupils. [19132/04] my Department’s Dublin offices of my or from other Departments. Some were promoted and Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. some were recruited for Tullamore. My Depart- Dempsey): My Department received applications ment does not keep personnel statistics in a for- from the school for special education resources. mat that would indicate the number of staff in Applications for resource teacher support were each of these categories. received between 15 February and 31 August Training periods would have varied consider- 2003. The applications were considered and all ably depending on the degree of knowledge of schools have been notified of the outcome. the specific area of work and the previous experi- Schools were notified of the resources that may ence of the staff members being trained. Some of be put in place immediately. I intend that all the training took place prior to a transfer and applications for SER received by 30 June, includ- some afterwards. I do not have detailed statistics ing the two applications from the school, will be on the duration of the training, the periods of responded to before the commencement of the overlap required or the costs involved. 2004-2005 school year. 517 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 518

The teacher allocations involved will be made Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. in the context of a new weighted system that I Dempsey): My Department contacted Cola´iste announced recently. An additional 350 teacher Dhu´ laigh about the matter. Its principal advised posts are being provided to facilitate the intro- that a subscription on the college’s book rental duction of the new system. It will involve a gen- scheme was received for the pupil concerned. The eral weighted allocation for all primary schools to college informed about any hardship. It deals cater for pupils with a higher incidence of special with all hardship appeals as they arise. educational needs. For example, students with My Department operates a grant scheme that borderline, mild and general learning disability, contributions towards the cost of school text- specific learning disability and with learning sup- books for needy pupils in post-primary schools. port needs. It will also allow for allocations in A needy pupil is defined as a pupil from a family respect of pupils with a lower incidence of special where there is genuine hardship because of educational needs. unemployment, prolonged illness of a parent, The weighted allocation will be made as fol- large family size with inadequate means, single lows. In the most disadvantaged schools as per parenthood, or other family circumstances such the urban dimension of Giving Children an Even as substance abuse that would indicate a similar Break, a teacher of pupils with special edu- degree of financial hardship. Principal teachers cational needs will be allocated for every 80 administer the book grant schemes in schools in pupils to cater for the subset of pupils with higher a flexible way under the terms of the schemes incidence special needs; the ratio will be one based on their knowledge of circumstances. teacher for every 140 pupils in all boys schools; School Staffing. one for every 150 pupils in mixed schools or all girls schools with an enrolment of greater than 192. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Edu- 30% boys; one for every 200 pupils in all girls cation and Science if the contracts of the 11 schools, including schools with mixed junior special needs assistants at a school (details classes but with 30% or less boys overall. The supplied) in Dublin 24 will be immediately con- details of the new model will be set out in a com- firmed; and his views on whether, in view of the prehensive circular. It will be issued to all schools fact that this school is in a severely disadvantaged for the commencement of the new school year. area and caters for a large number of children The weighted allocation will enable teaching with behavioural and emotional difficulties, it is support to be provided to pupils with a higher unacceptable to consider reductions in the num- incidence special educational needs. It will obvi- ber of special needs assistants at the school. ate the need for schools to submit applications for [19179/04] pupils in the higher incidence categories. Schools Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. may continue to apply for specific teacher allo- Dempsey): Special needs assistants may be cations in respect of pupils with lower incidence approved to support a pupil with a significant disabilities. My Department proposes to devise medical need for such assistance, a significant clusters in respect of allocations to be made under impairment of physical or sensory function or the weighted model. Sanction for the filling of where their behaviour is such that they are a posts will be considered in the context of these danger to themselves or other pupils. The criteria clusters and the weighted arrangements. The used for the assessment of the need for special Department will communicate with schools in needs assistant support is outlined in my Depart- this regard before the commencement of the ment’s circular 7/02. It may be accessed on my coming school year. Department’s website under the heading children with special needs. My Department continues to School Transport. review existing arrangements for the allocation of special educational supports to primary schools. 190. Mr. Grealish asked the Minister for Edu- A review ensures that each school has the level cation and Science when a reply on school trans- of resources required to cater for its pupils with port from the Claregalway-Carnmore area to the special educational needs. secondary school in Oranmore will be pro- Since 1998 the number of special needs assist- vided. [19148/04] ants in primary schools has grown from about 300 Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. to in excess of 5,500 full-time and part-time posts. Dempsey): The transport liaison officer, County Special needs assistant posts will be retained in Galway Vocational Education Committee was schools where there is a continuing care need in asked to submit a report on the case. The Deputy accordance with circular 7/02. Account is being will be advised of the position when it is assessed. taken of existing levels of special needs assistant support allocation in schools. In cases where a Student Support Schemes. reduction in the level of special needs assistant support is proposed, there will be provision for 191. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Edu- schools to appeal, having regard to the care needs cation and Science if he will investigate the case of the pupils concerned. Details of the appeals of a person (details supplied) in Dublin 17. mechanism will be set out in a communication [19155/04] to schools. 519 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 520

School Attendance. Details of the appeals mechanism will be set out in a communication to schools. 193. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science the steps taken to assist a per- son (details supplied) in Dublin 7 and their par- School Transport. ent; and the measures put in place to address the 195. Mr. Cregan asked the Minister for Edu- issue. [19180/04] cation and Science if he will review the school Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. transport in a catchment area (details supplied) Dempsey): The issue is a matter for the national in County Limerick. [19183/04] educational welfare board. It was established Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. under the Education (Welfare) Act 2000 as the Dempsey): My Department does not propose to single national body with responsibility for school carry out a review of the catchment area referred attendance. The Act provides a comprehensive to by the Deputy. framework promoting regular school attendance and tackling the problems of absenteeism and Special Educational Needs. early school leaving. The board’s general function is to ensure that each child attends a recognised 196. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Edu- school or receives a certain minimum education. cation and Science if the application for resources I am arranging to pass the Deputy’s query to the to support the transition and ongoing needs of NEWB for direct reply to him. a person (details supplied) in Dublin 11 will be expedited. [19184/04] School Staffing. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. 194. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Edu- Dempsey): My Department received an appli- cation and Science if he will comment on special cation for special educational resources for the needs assistants at a school (details supplied) in person. It is being considered and a response will Dublin 15, in particular the threat by his Depart- issue to the school shortly. ment to revoke two special needs posts from 31 August 2004; and if he is aware that the school, Home Tuition. for the past decade, focused on the provision of special needs for children in the Huntstown, 197. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education Clonee and Dublin 15 area. [19182/04] and Science about an application by a person (details supplied) in County Kildare for home tui- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. tion. [19185/04] Dempsey): Special needs assistants may be approved to support a pupil who has a significant Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. medical need for such assistance, a significant Dempsey): On 18 June my Department sanc- impairment of physical or sensory function or tioned ten hours’ home tuition per week for the where their behaviour is such that they are a month of July for the pupil. danger to themselves or other pupils. The criteria used for the assessment of the need for special Schools Building Projects. needs assistant support is outlined in my Depart- 198. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Edu- ment’s circular 7/02. The circular may be accessed cation and Science if his Department received an on my Department’s website under the heading application from a school (details supplied) in children with special needs. My Department con- County Wexford for refurbishment and new tinues to review existing arrangements for the accommodation; when these works will be sanc- allocation of special educational supports to pri- tioned; and if he is aware of the poor conditions mary schools. The basic purpose of the review is to ensure that each school has the level of at the school. [19186/04] resources required to cater for its pupils with Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. special educational needs. Dempsey): An application was received from the Since 1998 the number of special needs assist- school’s management authority. All projects not ants in primary schools has grown from about 300 proceeding to construction as part of the 2004 to in excess of 5,500 full-time and part-time posts. schools building programme are being re-evalu- Special needs assistants posts will be retained in ated with a view to including them in a multi- schools where there is a continuing care need in annual programme from 2005 onwards. The accordance with circular 7/02. I intend that all school’s application will be included in the applications for special education resources review. received by 30 June will be responded to before the commencement of the 2004-2005 school year. Special Educational Needs. Account is being taken of existing levels of special needs assistant support allocation in 199. Ms Harkin asked the Minister for Edu- schools. In cases where a reduction in the level of cation and Science the arrangements in place for special needs assistant support is proposed, there September for resource hours and special needs will be provision for schools to appeal, having assistants for a school (details supplied) in regard to the care needs of the pupils concerned. County Leitrim. [19187/04] 521 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 522

Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Dempsey): My Department received applications Dempsey): I established an appeals committee for special education resources from the school. I for the 2003-2004 school year. It considers intend that all applications for SER received by appeals by school authorities against decisions of 30 June will be responded to before the com- the Department of Education and Science in mencement of the 2004-2005 school year. Appli- regard to teaching staff allocations for second cations for resource teacher support that were level schools and vocational education commit- received between 15 February and 31 August tees. It also operates independently of my 2003 were considered. Schools were notified of Department and its decision is final. The commit- the outcome and whether resources may be put tee comprises three members nominated by my in place immediately. Applications received after Department who have relevant experience and 31 August 2003 and by 30 June 2004 will be pro- expertise. The three members of the current com- cessed in the near future. The outcome will be mittee are: Mr. Jim Lyons, Ms Elspeth Hender- notified to schools before the commencement of son and Mr. Parthalan O´ Ceilleachair. the 2004-05 school year. Special Educational Needs. School Transport. 204. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for 200. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Education Education and Science when an additional and Science if school transport will be provided resource teacher will be appointed to a school to persons (details supplied) in County Mayo. (details supplied) in County Mayo in view of the [19188/04] fact that some hours have been granted since Sep- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. tember 2003 to one student who will enter third Dempsey): A report was requested from Bus class in September 2004. [19283/04] E´ ireann. The Deputy will be advised of the posi- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. tion as soon as it is assessed. Dempsey): My Department received an appli- cation for special education resources for the School Staffing. pupil at the end of January. I intend that all appli- 201. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Edu- cations for special educational resources received cation and Science if a full-time support teacher by 30 June will be responded to before the com- will be provided for a school (details supplied) in mencement of the 2004-2005 school year. Appli- Dublin 8 in view of the particular needs of the cations for resource teacher support that were children attending the school; and his views on received between 15 February and 31 August whether it should be accorded disadvantaged 2003 have been considered. Schools were notified status, in view of the catchment area. [19189/04] of the outcome and whether resources could be put in place immediately. Applications received Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. after 31 August 2003 and by 30 June 2004 will be Dempsey): A detailed review of all disadvantaged processed in the near future. The outcome will be initiatives is nearing completion. It will impact on notified to schools before the commencement of existing initiatives. I hope to announce the out- the 2004-2005 school year. come of the review shortly. The teacher allocations involved will be made in the context of a new weighted system that I Schools Building Projects. announced recently. An additional 350 teacher 202. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Edu- posts are being provided to facilitate the intro- cation and Science when he will complete a duction of the new system. It will involve a gen- review of schools building projects that will form eral weighted allocation for all primary schools part of his multi-annual budget; and when his to cater for pupils with higher incidence special review will be published. [19260/04] educational needs, for example, those with bor- derline, mild and general learning disability, spec- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. ific learning disability, and also those with learn- Dempsey): Officials in my Department’s school ing support needs. It will also allow for planning section are reviewing all of the projects allocations in respect of pupils with lower incid- that were not authorised to proceed to construc- ence special educational needs. tion as part of the 2004 schools building pro- The weighted allocation will be made as fol- gramme. When the review is completed I will lows. In the most disadvantaged schools as per publish details in the context of a multi-annual the urban dimension of Giving Children an Even programme of works. Break, a teacher of pupils with special edu- cational needs will be allocated for every 80 School Staffing. pupils to cater for the subset of pupils with higher 203. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Education incidence special needs; in all boys schools the and Science when the independent education ratio will be one teacher for every 140 pupils; in appeals board that deals with the issue of allo- mixed schools, or all girls schools with an enrol- cation of teachers was set up and by whom; and ment of greater than 30% boys, one for every 150 the number of persons on the board and their pupils; and in all girls schools, including schools details. [19280/04] with mixed junior classes but with 30% or less 523 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 524

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. boys overall, one for every 200 pupils. I intend Dempsey): My Department received an appli- that the details of the new model will be set out cation for improved accommodation from the in a comprehensive circular to issue to schools for school. When publishing the 2004 schools build- the commencement of the new school year. ing programme, I outlined that my strategy will The weighted allocation will enable teaching be grounded in capital investment based on support to be provided to pupils with higher multi-annual allocations. My officials are incidence special educational needs and this will reviewing all projects that were not authorised to obviate the need for schools to submit individual proceed to construction as part of the 2004 applications for pupils in the higher incidence cat- schools building programme. This is being done egories. Schools may continue to apply for spec- with a view to including them as part of a multi- ific teacher allocations in respect of pupils with annual schools building programme from 2005. I lower incidence disabilities. My Department now expect to make further announcements during proposes to devise clusters in respect of allo- the year. The application from the school will be cations to be made under the weighted model. considered in this regard. Sanction for the filling of posts will be considered in the context of these clusters and the weighted Residential Institutions Redress Scheme. arrangements. My Department will communicate 208. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Edu- with schools in this regard before the commence- cation and Science , further to Question No. 120 ment of the coming school year. of 13 May, when he intends to lay the list of 205. Mr. Ellis asked the Minister for Education additional institutions before the Houses of the Oireachtas. [19324/04] and Science if his Department will sanction three special needs assistants for a school (details Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. supplied) in County Leitrim. [19319/04] Dempsey): My Department received correspon- dence from individuals and survivor groups iden- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. tifying a number of additional institutions that Dempsey): My Department received applications may be eligible for inclusion in the Schedule of for three special needs assistants from the school. the Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002. Special needs assistants may be approved to sup- Discussions between my Department and other port a pupil who has a significant medical need Departments took place that may have provided for such assistance, a significant impairment of a regulatory or inspection function in the oper- physical or sensory function or where their ation of these facilities to ascertain whether they behaviour is such that they are a danger to them- are eligible for inclusion. In some cases the initial selves or other pupils. The criteria used for the information received was limited due to the long assessment of the need for special needs assistant period that had elapsed since the institutions support is outlined in my Department’s circular were closed. Therefore, the process of verifying 7/02. each of them was time consuming and is continu- I refer the Deputy to circular SP ED 9/04. It ing. Inquiries into all of the institutions have not may be accessed on my Department’s website been completed. I am considering proposals that www.education.ie under the heading, Children will enable progress to be made on the insti- With Special Needs. It advises schools that they tutions where inquiries have been completed. The will be advised of the outcome of their appli- proposals are at an advanced stage. cations as soon as possible in advance of the next school year. Departmental Reports. 209. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Edu- School Transport. cation and Science further to the reply of the 206. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Edu- Minister of State of 19 May 2004, the progress to cation and Science if the transport pick-up point date on the implementation of the McIver report; for persons (details supplied) in Lower Termon, and if he will make a statement on the matter. Dungloe, County Donegal will be revised. [19326/04] [19321/04] Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Dempsey): The recommendations in the McIver Dempsey): A report was requested from Bus report are wide-ranging and encompass proposals E´ ireann. The Deputy will be advised of the posi- that extend beyond plc provision. During the past tion when it is assessed. 12 months, officials in my Department have had meetings with the management and staff rep- Schools Building Projects. resentative interests in the sector to examine their respective priorities and to consider issues sur- 207. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Edu- rounding a number of the recommendations of cation and Science when it is proposed to carry the report. Further meetings with all the relevant out remedial work on a school (details supplied) stakeholders in the sector will be necessary in the in County Donegal. [19322/04] period ahead in connection with this report. 525 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 526

One of the recommendations in the report sidered and schools have now been notified of the envisaged the formation of a council of further outcome. This outcome indicates to schools the education colleges to engage with the National resources that may be put in place immediately. Adult Learning Council and the Department of Applications received after 31 August 2003 and Education and Science on policy and research, by 30 June 2004 will be processed in the near provide for a leadership mechanism within the future and the outcome will be notified to schools sector, animate inter-college planning processes before the commencement of the 2004-05 school and co-ordinate joint initiatives among colleges. year. As an initial step, on Tuesday, 4 May 2004, my The teacher allocations involved will be made Department facilitated a meeting of the stake- in the context of a new weighted system which holders in the sector with a view to having them I announced recently. An additional 350 teacher prepare proposals about the composition and posts are being provided to facilitate the intro- remit of the council. In June 2004, the Depart- duction of the new system. This system will ment asked the parties involved to reflect again involve a general weighted allocation for all pri- on the issue of the composition of the council in mary schools to cater for pupils with higher incid- the light of recent discussions. My Department ence special educational needs such as, for is continuing to facilitate discussions between the example, those with borderline mild and mild sides on this matter. general learning disability, specific learning dis- 210. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Edu- ability and also those with learning support cation and Science if he will report on progress in needs. It will also allow for individual allocations the implementation of the Donnellan report on a in respect of pupils with lower incidence special centre (details supplied) in Dublin 11; when he educational needs. proposes to recruit a new director; if the situation The weighted allocation will be made as fol- will not be allowed to drift, thereby causing lows. In the most disadvantaged schools as per uncertainty and instability among staff and resi- the urban dimension of Giving Children an Even dents; and if he will make a statement on the mat- Break, a teacher of pupils with special edu- ter. [19328/04] cational needs will be allocated for every 80 pupils to cater for the subset of pupils with higher Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. incidence special needs; in all-boys schools, the Dempsey): As the Deputy will be aware my ratio will be one teacher for every 140 pupils; in Department issued the review of the Finglas child mixed schools, or all-girls schools with an enrol- and adolescent centre, carried out by Mr. Michael ment of greater than 30% boys, one for every 150 Donnellan, to all the stakeholders at the centre pupils; and in all-girls schools including schools and sought their views on the recommendations with mixed junior classes but with 30% or less and conclusions contained in the report. Most of boys overall, one for every 200 pupils. It is the stakeholders have responded and a number intended that the details of the new model will of meetings have taken place between my be set out in a comprehensive circular to issue to officials and the relevant parties. This consul- schools for the commencement of the new tation process will be completed this week and I school year. expect to be in a position to make a statement on The weighted allocation will enable teaching the future of the centre in the near future. support to be provided to pupils with higher incidence special educational needs and this will Special Educational Needs. obviate the need for schools to submit individual applications for pupils in the higher incidence cat- 211. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- egories. Schools may continue to apply for spec- ster for Education and Science the position ific teacher allocations in respect of pupils with regarding an application for a special needs assist- lower incidence disabilities. My Department now ant which was submitted in May 2003 for a person proposes to devise clusters in respect of allo- (details supplied) in County Kerry; the reason for cations to be made under the weighted model. the further delay; when he proposes to make a Sanction for the filling of posts will be considered decision in this case; and if he will make a state- in the context of these clusters and the weighted ment on the matter. [19344/04] arrangements. The Department will communicate Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. with schools in this regard before the commence- Dempsey): My Department has received an ment of the coming school year. application for 12.5 hours part-time special needs Schools which have applied for special needs assistant support and 2.5 hours resource teaching assistant support will be advised of the outcome support for the pupil to whom the Deputy refers. of their applications as soon as possible in It is my intention that all applications for special advance of the next school year. Account is being educational resources received by 30 June 2004 taken of existing levels of special needs assistant will be responded to before the commencement support allocation in schools. In cases where a of the 2004-05 school year. Applications for reduction in the level of special needs assistant resource teacher support that were received support is proposed, there will be provision for between 15 February and 31 August 2003 for schools to appeal, having regard to the care needs which a response is outstanding have been con- of the pupils concerned. 527 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 528

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] be set out in a comprehensive circular to issue to My Department recognises the difficulties schools for the commencement of the new school some schools have been experiencing while year. It is intended that the details of the new awaiting the outcome of applications for special model will be set out in a comprehensive circular educational resource and the introduction of the to issue to schools for the commencement of the weighted model. The process has been complex new school year. and time-consuming and I am endeavouring to The weighted allocation will enable teaching have all aspects completed as quickly as possible. support to be provided to pupils with higher I also wish to acknowledge the co-operation and incidence special educational needs and this will support of schools in this regard. obviate the need for schools to submit individual applications for pupils in the higher incidence cat- 212. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- egories. Schools may continue to apply for spec- ster for Education and Science further to the ific teacher allocations in respect of pupils with recent announcement by him, if he will give lower incidence disabilities. My Department now approval to an application for a resource teacher proposes to devise clusters in respect of allo- for a person (details supplied) in County Kerry; cations to be made under the weighted model. and if he will make a statement on the matter. Sanction for the filling of posts will be considered [19345/04] in the context of these clusters and the weighted arrangements. The Department will communicate Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. with schools in this regard before the commence- Dempsey): My Department received an appli- ment of the coming school year. cation for 3.5 hours resource teaching support for My Department recognises the difficulties the pupil referred to by the Deputy. It is my some schools have been experiencing while intention that all applications for special edu- awaiting the outcome of applications for special cational resources received by 30 June 2004 will educational resource and the introduction of the be responded to before the commencement of the weighted model. The process has been complex 2004-05 school year. Applications for resource and time-consuming and I am endeavouring to teacher support that were received between 15 have all aspects completed as quickly as possible. February and 31 August 2003 for which a I also wish to acknowledge the co-operation and response is outstanding have been considered and support of schools in this regard. schools have now been notified of the outcome. This outcome indicates to schools the resources Schools Building Projects. that may be put in place immediately. Appli- cations received after 31 August 2003 and by 30 213. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Edu- June 2004 will be processed in the near future and cation and Science , further to Question No. 106 the outcome will be notified to schools before the of 11 March 2004, if his officials have engaged commencement of the 2004-05 school year. with the school authorities regarding the decline The teacher allocations involved will be made in enrolments and the future viability of the in the context of a new weighted system which school in regard to determining the way forward I announced recently. An additional 350 teacher for it, especially in view of the fact that stage two posts are being provided to facilitate the intro- development for the school promised before the duction of the new system. This system will general election in 2002 has yet to be sanc- involve a general weighted allocation for all pri- tioned. [19348/04] mary schools to cater for pupils with higher incid- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. ence special educational needs such as, for Dempsey): Official from my Department have example, those with borderline mild and mild engaged with the school authority in this regard. general learning disability, specific learning dis- When publishing the 2004 school building pro- ability and also those with learning support gramme, I outlined that my strategy going for- needs. It will also allow for individual allocations ward will be grounded in capital investment in respect of pupils with lower incidence special based on multi-annual allocations. My officials educational needs. are reviewing all projects which were not author- The weighted allocation will be made as fol- ised to proceed to construction as part of the 2004 lows. In the most disadvantaged schools as per school building programme and I expect to be in the urban dimension of Giving Children an Even a position to make further announcements on this Break, a teacher of pupils with special edu- matter in the course of the year. cational needs will be allocated for every 80 pupils to cater for the subset of pupils with higher Child Abuse. incidence special needs; in all-boys schools, the ratio will be one teacher for every 140 pupils; in 214. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science if he will address the infor- mixed schools, or all-girls schools with an enrol- mation requested in Parliamentary Questions ment of greater than 30% boys, one for every 150 Nos. 198 to 200, inclusive, of 22 October 2003. pupils; and in all-girls schools including schools [19349/04] with mixed junior classes but with 30% or less boys overall, one for every 200 pupils. It is Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. intended that the details of the new model will Dempsey): The letters referred to form part of a 529 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 530 substantial correspondence from the person con- of Finance would have been briefed on devel- cerned over a number of years outlining a range opments taking place in this regard. of concerns and allegations concerning a young offenders centre and related matters. I have been Sce´im To´ ga´la Scoile. made aware of the general content of this corre- 215. D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire spondence. Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta cad e´ an dul chun Departmental records indicate that a meeting cinn ata´ dea´nta go da´ta maidir le hiarbhunscoil a was held in March 1988 between officials of my chur ar fa´il ar Oilea´n Thoraı´; agus an nde´anfaidh Department and management at the Finglas chil- se´ ra´iteas ina thaobh. [19350/04] dren’s centre to pursue complaints made to the Department by a then serving member of staff. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. The complaints related chiefly to matters involv- Dempsey): Nuair a chuireas an sce´im to´ ga´la sco- ing financial management and control aspects of ile 2004 i gclo´ , chuireas in iu´ l go mbeadh mo stra´- the centre but also included allegations of physi- ite´is i dul chun chinn bunaithe ar da´iliu´ ilbhlian- cal abuse of young people. The Department’s tu´ il i fuilleamh caipitil. Ta´ mo oifigigh ag records indicate that the Department officials de´anamh athbhreithniu´ ar na tionscnaimh uile advised the director that all such matters should nach bhfuil u´ dara´sto´ ga´la faighte acu go fo´ ill mar be brought to my Department’s attention cuid de sce´im to´ ga´la scoile 2004, le su´ il go mbeidh immediately and should be investigated siad san a´ireamh mar cuid de fheachtas ilbhlian- thoroughly. tu´ il to´ ga´la scoile 2005 agus ta´im ag su´ il go mbeidh The only identifiable allegation regarding ar mo chumas breis eolais a fho´ gairt faoi’n gno´ physical abuse related to an alleged assault of a seo le linn na bliana. Cuirfear an t-iarratas o´ Col- boy by a staff member at the centre in 1985. Staff aiste Pobail, Oilea´n Thoraı´ san a´ireamh sa in the Department interviewed the then director chomhthe´acs seo. of the centre in late 1992 in this regard. The direc- tor assured my Department that this incident had Schools Building Projects. been investigated at the time and it had been found that the incident was a necessary case of 216. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Edu- physical restraint of a disruptive young person, cation and Science the position regarding an which was misinterpreted by a staff member. extension to a school (details supplied); and if he Following further allegations of abuse at will make a statement on the matter. [19351/04] Finglas children’s centre and Trinity House Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. school, a Garda investigation was carried out in Dempsey): A large-scale building project for the 1994. On foot of that investigation, in 1994 the school referred to by the Deputy is listed in Director of Public Prosecutions directed that section 9 of the 2004 school building programme there was no evidence to support allegations of which is published on my Department’s website abuse. On receipt of further correspondence in at www.education.ie. This project is at early stages 1996, the matter was referred from my Depart- of architectural planning. It has been assigned a ment to the Garda for investigation. In addition band 2 rating by my Department in accordance to this investigation, as the Deputy is aware, the with the published criteria for prioritising large- Garda, in conjunction with the Eastern Health scale projects. It is planned to progress this pro- Board, my Department and the management of ject to the next stage of architectural planning Finglas children’s centre were engaged in a look- during 2004. back investigation into allegations of abuse in The budget announcement regarding multi- relation to this centre. Arising from this investi- annual capital envelopes will enable me to adopt gation, files were sent to the Director of Public a multi-annual framework for the school building Prosecutions regarding allegations of abuse at the programme which, in turn, will give greater clar- centre. My Department provided every possible ity regarding projects that are not progressing to assistance to the Garda and made available all tender in this year’s programme, such as the pro- relevant records in this regard. ject in question. I will make a further announce- Allegations of financial irregularity were also ment in that regard during the year. investigated by the Department. Although many of these were not substantiated, the investigations 217. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Edu- into these allegations was a contributory factor in cation and Science the position regarding the later identifying weaknesses in the financial sys- extension or renovation to a school (details tems on Trinity House school which were supplied) in County Donegal; and if he will make addressed. a statement on the matter. [19352/04] The letter of February 1993 referred to in the question, was received from the person in ques- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. tion enclosing copies of correspondence with the Dempsey): I am pleased to inform the Deputy then Minister for Finance and the then Minister that, as part of the devolved initiative contained for Enterprise and Employment. As these mat- in section 2 of the 2004 school building pro- ters were the subject of consideration by the gramme, the school in question has accepted a Committee of Public Accounts, the Department maximum grant of \275,000 to fund the provision 531 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 532

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] ED 09/04; if he will review this situation; and if he of additional school accommodation and will make a statement on the matter. [19373/04] improvement works. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. 218. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Edu- Dempsey): The differentiated system of weighted cation and Science if his Department has been in allocation teacher allocation referred to in circu- contact with the Office of Public Works in a lar SP ED 09/04 is intended to recognise the evi- effort to identify a site for a new primary school dence that factors such as disadvantage and gen- in Gortahork, County Donegal; and if he will der have a bearing on the incidence of special make a statement on the matter. [19353/04] educational need. The new arrangements also take full account of the 350 posts I secured to Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. facilitate their introduction. I should point out Dempsey): When I published the 2004 school also, that the needs of pupils in lower incidence building programme, I outlined that my strategy categories of disability will continue to be met on going forward will be grounded in capital invest- an individual basis. ment based on multi-annual allocations. My 221. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Education officials are reviewing all projects, which were not and Science if his Department’s inspectorate con- authorised to proceed as part of the 2004 school tacted a family in County Mayo, as promised in building programme, including projects requiring the reply to Question No. 315 of 27 April 2004; the acquisition of a site, with a view to including the progress that has been made on the place- them as part of a multi-annual programme from ment of a person with special needs (details 2005 and I expect to be in a position to make supplied) in County Mayo in the education sys- further announcements on this matter in the tem; and the education that has been offered to course of the year. The proposed project at Gort- them to date. [19401/04] ahork will be included in this review. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Third Level Fees. Dempsey): I understand that my Department’s 219. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Edu- inspectorate has a vacancy in the area that the cation and Science the circumstances under which pupil referred to by the Deputy resides. However, non-nationals whose parents reside here on work my officials are making arrangements for an permits may qualify for reduced third level fees; alternative member of the inspectorate to contact if such reductions in fees apply to all third level the parents concerned shortly. colleges, including institutes of technology; if the 222. Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Edu- three-year residency rule means three full years cation and Science if a definitive decision will be of two years and part of a third year; and if he made regarding the allocation to a school (details will make a statement on the matter. [19355/04] supplied) of a special needs assistant to ensure Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. that the school will have adequate time to adver- Dempsey): The main conditions of my Depart- tise the position; and if he will make a statement ment’s free fees initiative are that students must on the matter. [19403/04] be first-time undergraduates and hold EU nationality or official refugee status and have Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. been ordinarily resident in an EU member state Dempsey): I wish to refer the Deputy to Circular for at least three of the five years preceding their SP ED 09/04 which may be accessed on my entry to an approved third level course. Department’s website, www.education.ie, under I emphasise the distinction between the criteria “Children with Special Needs”. The circular that determine eligibility under the free fees advises schools that have applied for special initiative and the criteria by which individual needs assistant support that they will be advised third level institutions establish what rates of tui- of the outcome of their applications as soon as tion fees should be charged in cases where a possible in advance of the next school year. student does not qualify for free fees. Third level Special needs assistants may be approved to institutions are autonomous bodies and, as such, support a pupil who has a significant medical may determine the level of fees to be charged in need for such assistance, a significant impairment cases where the free fees initiative does not apply. of physical or sensory function or where their The classification of a student as an EU or a non- behaviour is such that they are a danger to them- EU applicant is a matter for each institution to selves or other pupils. The criteria used for the determine in this regard. assessment of the need for special needs assistant support is outlined in my Department’s circular 07/02. This circular may be accessed on my Special Educational Needs. Department’s website. 220. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Edu- Since 1998, the number of special needs assist- cation and Science the reason rural disadvan- ants in primary schools has grown from about 300 taged schools are only entitled to 50% of the to in excess of 5,500 full-time and part-time posts. resource teacher allocation of the urban disad- My Department continues to review existing vantaged schools as per Department circular SP arrangements for the allocation of special edu- 533 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 534 cational supports to primary schools. The basic also those with learning support needs. It will also purpose of the review is to ensure that each allow for individual allocations in respect of school has the level of resources required to cater pupils with lower incidence special educational for its pupils with special educational needs. needs. Account is being taken of existing levels of The weighted allocation will be made as fol- special needs assistant support allocation in lows: In the most disadvantaged schools as per schools. In cases where a reduction in the level of the urban dimension of Giving Children an Even special needs assistant support is proposed, there Break, a teacher of pupils with special edu- will be provision for schools to appeal, having cational needs will be allocated for every 80 regard to the care needs of the pupils concerned. pupils to cater for the subset of pupils with higher Details of the appeals mechanism will be set out incidence special needs; in all-boys schools, the in a communication to schools. ratio will be one teacher for every 140 pupils; in 223. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Edu- mixed schools, or all-girls schools with an enrol- cation and Science if he will make a statement on ment of greater than 30% boys, one for every 150 the situation regarding the provision of a resource pupils; and in all-girls schools including schools teacher at a school (details supplied) in County with mixed junior classes but with 30% or less Kerry. [19405/04] boys overall, one for every 200 pupils. It is intended that the details of the new model will Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. be set out in a comprehensive circular to issue to Dempsey): I can confirm that my Department has schools for the commencement of the new received five applications for special educational school year. resources, SER, from the school to which the The weighted allocation will enable teaching Deputy refers. All applications for special edu- support to be provided to pupils with higher cational resources received after 31 August 2003, incidence special educational needs and this will including the applications from the school in obviate the need for schools to submit individual question are being considered by the National applications for pupils in the higher incidence cat- Educational Psychological Service, NEPS. In egories. Schools may continue to apply for spec- those cases, it is intended that the applicant ific teacher allocations in respect of pupils with schools will be notified of the outcome as soon as lower incidence disabilities. My Department now possible in advance of the commencement of the proposes to devise clusters in respect of allo- next school year. cations to be made under the weighted model. 224. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Edu- Sanction for the filling of posts will be considered cation and Science his plans to address the back- in the context of these clusters and the weighted log of 8,000 applications for special educational arrangements. The Department will communicate resources; if he intends to carry out an assessment with schools in this regard before the commence- of each; and if he will make a statement on the ment of the coming school year. matter. [19331/04] Schools which have applied for special needs assistant support will be advised of the outcome Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. of their applications as soon as possible in Dempsey): It is my intention that all applications advance of the next school year. Account is being for special educational resources received by 30 taken of existing levels of special needs assistant June 2004 will be responded to before the com- support allocation in schools. In cases where a mencement of the 2004-05 school year. Appli- reduction in the level of special needs assistant cations for resource teacher support that were support is proposed, there will be provision for received between 15 February and 31 August schools to appeal, having regard to the care needs 2003 for which a response is outstanding have of the pupils concerned. been considered and schools have now been noti- My Department recognises the difficulties fied of the outcome. This outcome indicates to some schools have been experiencing while schools the resources that may be put in place awaiting the outcome of applications for special immediately. Applications received after 31 educational resource and the introduction of the August 2003 and by 30 June 2004 will be pro- weighted model. The process has been complex cessed in the near future and the outcome will be and time-consuming and I am endeavouring to notified to schools before the commencement of have all aspects completed as quickly as possible. the 2004-05 school year. I also wish to acknowledge the co-operation and The teacher allocations involved will be made support of schools in this regard. in the context of a new weighted system which I announced recently. An additional 350 teacher Physical Education Facilities. posts are being provided to facilitate the intro- duction of the new system. The new system will 225. Mr. McGuinness asked the Minister for involve a general weighted allocation for all pri- Education and Science the progress in providing mary schools to cater for pupils with higher incid- funding to a college (details supplied) in County ence special educational needs, for example, Kilkenny for a community leisure and recreation those with borderline mild and mild general facility; and if he will make a statement on the learning disability, specific learning disability, and matter. [19511/04] 535 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 536

Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. supplied) in Dublin 9 for extra hours for two of Dempsey): An application for a PE hall at the its part-time staff; and if he will make a statement school to which the Deputy refers is being on the matter. [19514/04] assessed in the context of the school’s long term Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. projected enrolment. All projects that are not Dempsey): I am aware of the application to which proceeding to construction as part of the 2004 the Deputy refers. I have asked my Department’s school building programme will be included as inspectorate to investigate the issue in question part of a multi-annual programme from 2005 as a matter of urgency. My officials will inform onwards, further details of which will be the school authorities of the outcome of the appli- announced later. cation as soon as possible.

School Staffing. School Transport. 226. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Edu- 229. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- cation and Science the position in respect of a ster for Education and Science if Bus E´ ireann has person (details supplied) in County Kildare with furnished the report to his Department regarding regard to a teaching post through Kildare the provision of a school bus service to a national Vocational Education Committee; if a suitable school (details supplied) in County Kerry; the teaching position will be offered to them in the current situation regarding this application; and if near future; and if he will make a statement on he will make a statement on the matter. the matter. [19512/04] [19515/04] Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Dempsey): The appointment of teachers by Dempsey): My Department is examining a Bus vocational education committees, VECs, is a mat- E´ ireann report in respect of the application for ter for the relevant VEC, subject to agreed pro- school transport to the school referred to in the cedures. As my Department has no role in the details supplied. When the examination is com- appointment of individual teachers in the VEC, it pleted the Deputy will be advised of the decision. would not be appropriate for me or my Depart- ment to intervene in any such case. Schools Refurbishment. National Induction Project. 230. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science the number of applications 227. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Edu- that were received from schools under the 2004 cation and Science if he has received a submission summer works schemes for schools; the number from the steering committees of the national of applications that were successful and the induction project, primary and post-primary, in amount of money disbursed under the scheme; respect of phase 3 of the project; if he has con- and if he will make a statement on the matter. sidered the proposals submitted; his intentions [19536/04] regarding the continuance or otherwise of the national induction project; and if he will make a Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. statement on the matter. [19513/04] Dempsey): The total number of applications received under the 2004 summer works schemes Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. for schools was 1,212. In all, 442 projects will be Dempsey): The national pilot project on induc- carried out under the scheme this year, 292 in pri- tion covers primary and post-primary levels. The mary schools and 150 in post-primary schools. project operates under the aegis of a steering The scheme will be funded to the amount of \31 committee which includes representatives from million. my Department along with representatives from the teacher unions as well as the universities and 231. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Edu- colleges of education. cation and Science if he will provide every assist- The primary and post-primary project teams ance to schools (details supplied) in Dublin 12 in have made a joint submission to my Department obtaining assistance for new windows. in relation to the continuation of the national [19537/04] pilot project via an additional phase, namely, phase 3. Consideration of this submission and any Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. decision on the future of the national pilot project Dempsey): The scope of the works required at will be informed by evaluation reports on phase the school referred to by the Deputy are appro- 2 of the project by the primary and post-primary priate for consideration under the summer works project teams. It is understood that these reports scheme which was announced in December last. are currently in progress. The closing date for applications under the scheme was 30 January 2004. I note that the school in question did not make an application Special Educational Needs. for replacement windows under this scheme. 228. Mr. Haughey asked the Minister for Edu- Subject to a review of the summer works cation and Science the position regarding a scheme 2004, it is planned to invite applications request earlier in 2004 by a school (details for the 2005 scheme later this year. Full details 537 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 538 will be posted on my Department’s website at Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. www.education.ie as soon as possible. In the Dempsey): The arrangements for monitoring interim, the school authority should use their education provided in places other than recog- devolved grant to deal with urgent works nised schools are contained in the Education required. (Welfare) Act 2000. The National Educational Welfare Board was established to implement the Special Educational Needs. provisions of the Act. The NEWB is currently implementing a system of registration for chil- 232. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education dren being educated at home or who attend non- and Science the position regarding an application recognised schools. by a person (details supplied) in County Kildare No definitive information is available to the for a special needs assistant in September 2004 Department at present on the numbers involved. in view of the concerns of the consultant child However, initial estimates have been made that psychiatrist in regard to this person; and if he will between 300 and 500 families may be educating make a statement on the matter. [19548/04] their children at home. In addition, the latest pub- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. lished data in my Department’s annual statistical Dempsey): I wish to refer the Deputy to circular report indicates that the numbers of students SP ED 09/04 which may be accessed on my attending non-aided primary and post-primary Department’s website, www.education.ie, under schools are 6,400 and 2,700 respectively. the heading, Children With Special Needs. The 234. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Edu- circular advises schools that have applied for cation and Science the number of young persons special needs assistant support that they will be registered by the National Educational Welfare advised of the outcome of their applications as Board in the register of young persons in employ- soon as possible in advance of the next school ment; and if he will make a statement on the mat- year. I can confirm that my Department has ter. [19561/04] received an application for a full time special needs assistant for the pupil referred to by the Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Deputy. Dempsey): Under the Education (Welfare) Act Special needs assistants may be approved to 2000, any young person aged 16 or 17 who wishes support a pupil who has a significant medical to leave school to enter employment must apply need for such assistance, a significant impairment to the National Educational Welfare Board to of physical or sensory function or where their have their name included in a special new regis- behaviour is such that they are a danger to them- ter. The purpose of the register is to safeguard the selves or other pupils. The criteria used for the educational welfare of young people who leave assessment of the need for special needs assistant school early to take up employment. support are outlined in my Department’s circular Prior to registration, the board will prepare a 07/02. This circular may be accessed on my plan in consultation with the young person and Department’s website. other relevant parties for the purpose of assisting Since 1998 the number of special needs assist- him or her to continue to avail of educational and ants in primary schools has grown from approxi- training opportunities. When the young person is mately 300 to in excess of 5,500 full-time and registered, a certificate is issued to him or her by part-time posts. My Department continues to the board. An employer must inspect this certifi- review existing arrangements for the allocation of cate before employing the young person. The cer- special educational supports to primary schools. tificate may be withdrawn where the board forms The basic purpose of the review is to ensure that the opinion that the young person is failing to each school has the level of resources required to make all reasonable efforts to carry out the edu- cater for its pupils with special educational needs. cation plan prepared for him or her and that it Account is being taken of existing levels of would not be in the young person’s best interests special needs assistant support allocation in to continue in employment without also continu- schools. In cases where a reduction in the level of ing to carry out the plan. The board is obliged to special needs assistant support is proposed, there give notice in writing to the young person, his or will be provision for schools to appeal, having her parents and his or her employer of its inten- regard to the care needs of the pupils concerned. tion to withdraw the certificate and to invite them Details of the appeals mechanism will be set out to make representations to the board concerning in a communication to schools. the matter. I am informed by the board that a number of expressions of interest in the register National Educational Welfare Board. has been received and are being followed up. No names have been entered on the register to date. 233. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science the number of children in 235. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Edu- receipt of an education at primary and at second cation and Science the number of scheme attend- level, respectively, in a place other than at a ance notices issued by the National Educational recognised school; and if he will make a state- Welfare Board since its establishment; and if he ment on the matter. [19560/04] will make a statement on the matter. [19562/04] 539 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 540

Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. school or a person acting on behalf of the board Dempsey): The Education (Welfare) Act 2000 refuses to enroll a student, suspends a student for became fully operational with effect from 5 July a cumulative total of more than 20 days in an 2002. The Act provides for the repeal of the pre- academic year or expels a student from the vious school attendance legislation under which school. In the calendar year 2003, there were 34 responsibility for the enforcement of school appeals against expulsion in the post-primary sec- attendance rested with four local authorities in tor and one in the primary sector. To date in 2004 the cities of Dublin, Cork and Waterford and there have been 28 appeals against expulsion in with the Garda for the remainder of the country. the post-primary sector and one in the primary Under the Act, the National Educational Wel- sector. The number of appeals taken in any year fare Board was established to ensure that every does not necessarily reflect the total number of child attends school regularly or otherwise expulsions in that year as some parents may receives an education. At this stage of its choose not to appeal the decision. development, the aim of the board is to provide 237. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Edu- a service to the most disadvantaged areas and cation and Science if all sections of the Education most at-risk groups. Five regional teams have (Welfare) Act 2000 are being implemented; and now been established with bases in Dublin, Cork, if he will make a statement on the matter. Limerick, Galway and Waterford and staff have [19564/04] been deployed since early December in areas of greatest disadvantage and in areas designated under the Government’s RAPID programme. A Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. total of 13 towns with significant school going Dempsey): All sections of the Education populations, 12 of which are designated under the (Welfare) Act 2000 came into operation on 5 July Government’s RAPID programme, also now 2002. The Act provides a comprehensive frame- have an educational welfare officer allocated to work for promoting regular school attendance them. These towns are Dundalk, Drogheda, and tackling the problems of absenteeism and Navan, Athlone, Carlow, Kilkenny, Wexford, early school leaving. It also established the Bray, Clonmel, Tralee, Ennis, Sligo and Let- National Educational Welfare Board on a statu- terkenny. In addition, the board follows up on tory basis as the single national body with urgent cases nationally where children are not responsibility for school attendance. The general currently receiving an education. functions of the board are to ensure that each child attends a recognised school or otherwise The Act provides that a parent may be pros- receives a certain minimum education. ecuted where the board forms the opinion that he or she is failing in his or her duty towards a child’s To discharge its responsibilities, the board is education. This is a step of last resort after every developing a nationwide service that is accessible possible step to improve attendance has been to schools, parents-guardians and others con- taken and where the board feels that a pros- cerned with the welfare of young people. For this ecution will bring about change. purpose, educational welfare officers, EWOs, are being appointed and deployed throughout the My Department has been informed by the country to provide a welfare-focused service to board that there have been no scheme attendance support regular school attendance and discharge notices issued since its establishment. However, the board’s functions locally. the practice and procedures for issuing such notices are being developed by the board at The board has appointed a chief executive present and it is intended that they will be in officer, directors of corporate services and edu- place from the commencement of the next cational welfare services and a management team school year. of eight staff. To date, 62 educational welfare officers have been appointed. I understand that 236. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Edu- the board will shortly be making a further EWO cation and Science the number of students appointment which will bring the service delivery expelled from primary and second level schools staff to its authorised complement of 63 service in the school year 2003-04; and if he will make a delivery staff. statement on the matter. [19563/04] At this stage of its development, the aim of the board is to provide a service to the most disad- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. vantaged areas, including areas designated under Dempsey): The National Educational Welfare the Government’s RAPID programme and most Board has issued its first annual attendance at-risk groups. Five regional teams have now report questionnaire to all schools. In the ques- been established with bases in Dublin, Cork, Lim- tionnaire schools are asked to state the number erick, Galway and Waterford and an educational of students expelled in the school year 2003-04. welfare service is now available, for the first time, Post-primary schools have been asked to submit in the cities of Limerick, Galway and Kilkenny. their returns by 30 June and primary schools have A total of 12 towns with significant school going until 16 July to reply. populations, 11 of which are designated under the Section 29 of the Education Act 1998 provides Government’s RAPID programme, also now for an appeal to the Secretary General of my have an educational welfare officer allocated to Department where a board of management of a them. These towns are Dundalk, Drogheda, 541 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 542

Navan, Athlone, Carlow, Wexford, Bray, Clon- those arising from a forum on educational disad- mel, Tralee, Ennis, Sligo and Letterkenny. In vantage organised by the committee, have helped addition, the board will follow up on urgent to inform the review. The Educational Research cases nationally. Centre has also been engaged to assist in this The board has also moved to provide a service regard. Individual schools involved in educational to families who decide to have their children edu- disadvantage schemes have had an input to the cated in places other than in recognised schools. review process. The review is currently being A small number of people with the appropriate finalised and I will be making an announcement skills have been allocated to this work and assess- in this regard once it has been completed. ments will commence shortly. My Department has recently issued guidelines to assist the board Special Educational Needs. in meeting its responsibilities in this area. An 239. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Edu- information leaflet and an application form have cation and Science if his attention has been drawn issued to families who are educating their chil- to the fact that 51 Down’s syndrome children are dren at home. Work is also proceeding on the awaiting assessment by his Department for pro- establishment of the register for 16 and 17 year vision of full time learning assistants for the olds who leave school to enter employment. school year beginning in September 2004; if his The board has recently written to all primary attention has further been drawn to the urgency and post primary schools requesting an annual of having this dealt with and of the deep concern attendance report for the school year 2003-04 felt by the parents of these children; and if he will which will provide comprehensive data on the make a statement on the matter. [19608/04] levels of non-attendance by pupils. The data are essential for the planning of the future develop- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. ment of the national educational welfare service Dempsey): I take it that the Deputy is referring and for the development of services-programmes to applications for special needs assistant support designed to prevent non-attendance. My Depart- for children with Down’s syndrome. I refer him ment will examine any recommendations and to circular SP ED 09/04 which may be accessed advice on school attendance and early school on my Department’s website, www.education.ie, leaving received from the NEWB following an under the heading, Children With Special Needs. analysis of the annual attendance data. The circular advises schools that have applied for special needs assistant support that they will be Educational Disadvantage. advised of the outcome of their applications as soon as possible in advance of the next school 238. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for year. Education and Science the details of the person- Special needs assistants may be approved to nel or consultants involved in the review of edu- support a pupil who has a significant medical cational disadvantage schemes; the modus need for such assistance, a significant impairment operandi used in this review; if individual schools of physical or sensory function or where their involved in these schemes have been consulted; behaviour is such that they are a danger to them- and if he will make a statement on the matter. selves or other pupils. The criteria used for the [19583/04] assessment of the need for special needs assistant Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. support are outlined in my Department’s circular Dempsey): Since my appointment as Minister for 07/02. This circular may be accessed on my Education and Science, I have made it clear that Department’s website. addressing educational disadvantage is my top Since 1998 the number of special needs assist- priority. By ensuring that available educational ants in primary schools has grown from about 300 resources are targeted at the most disadvantaged to in excess of 5,500 full-time and part-time posts. people in the education system at all levels, my My Department continues to review existing objective is to ensure that all young people leave arrangements for the allocation of special edu- the education system with a high quality edu- cational supports to primary schools. The basic cation and related qualifications to support their purpose of the review is to ensure that each full participation in society and in the economy. school has the level of resources required to cater My Department operates a wide range of pro- for its pupils with special educational needs. grammes specifically designed to tackle edu- Account is being taken of existing levels of cational disadvantage and one of my key con- special needs assistant support allocation in cerns is to ensure that a fully integrated and schools. In cases where a reduction in the level of cohesive overall strategy is adopted in this area special needs assistant support is proposed, there for the future. To this end, the educational disad- will be provision for schools to appeal, having vantage committee, which is an independent regard to the care needs of the pupils concerned. statutory body chaired by Professor A´ ine Hyland, Details of the appeals mechanism will be set out vice-president and professor of education, Uni- in a communication to schools. versity College Cork, undertook a root and I am anxious to ensure that special education branch review of the Department’s existing edu- support services are properly targeted at the chil- cational disadvantage programmes at my request. dren who require them and that the substantially The recommendations from this process, and increased resources which are being made avail- 543 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 544

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] obviate the need for schools to submit individual able in the special educational area have the applications for pupils in the higher incidence cat- desired effect of ensuring that all children egories. Schools may continue to apply for spec- assessed as having special needs receive the sup- ific teacher allocations in respect of pupils with port they require. lower incidence disabilities. My Department now proposes to devise clusters in respect of allo- 240. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Edu- cations to be made under the weighted model. cation and Science the number of cases being Sanction for the filling of posts will be considered assessed in the special education section of his in the context of these clusters and the weighted Department; the number of cases being assessed arrangements. The Department will communicate by the National Educational Psychological service with schools in this regard before the commence- section of his Department; the proposals he has ment of the coming school year. to relieve this backlog; and if he will make a state- ment on the matter. [19609/04] Schools which have applied for special needs assistant support will be advised of the outcome Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. of their applications as soon as possible in Dempsey): It is my intention that all applications advance of the next school year. Account is being for special educational resources received by 30 taken of existing levels of special needs assistant June 2004 will be responded to before the com- support allocation in schools. In cases where a mencement of the 2004-05 school year. Appli- reduction in the level of special needs assistant cations for resource teacher support that were support is proposed, there will be provision for received between 15 February and 31 August schools to appeal, having regard to the care needs 2003 for which a response is outstanding have of the pupils concerned. been considered and schools have now been noti- My Department recognises the difficulties fied of the outcome. This outcome indicates to some schools have been experiencing while schools the resources that may be put in place awaiting the outcome of applications for special immediately. Applications received after 31 educational resource and the introduction of the August 2003 and by 30 June 2004 will be pro- weighted model. The process has been complex cessed in the near future and the outcome will be and time-consuming and I am endeavouring to notified to schools before the commencement of have all aspects completed as quickly as possible. the 2004-05 school year. I also wish to acknowledge the co-operation and The teacher allocations involved will be made support of schools in this regard. in the context of a new weighted system which I announced recently. An additional 350 teacher Schools Building Projects. posts are being provided to facilitate the intro- 241. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Education duction of the new system. The new system will and Science the position with a school (details involve a general weighted allocation for all pri- supplied) in County Mayo; the stage it is at; the mary schools to cater for pupils with higher incid- amount of money it will cost to deal with the ence special educational needs, for example, problem of asbestos in the school in summer, those with borderline mild and mild general 2004; if it would be more prudent to move this learning disability, specific learning disability and school to the next stage and put it out for tender also those with learning support needs. It will also to build a new school premises. [19611/04] allow for individual allocations in respect of pupils with lower incidence special educational Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. needs. Dempsey): The large-scale building project for The weighted allocation will be made as fol- the school referred to by the Deputy is listed in lows: in the most disadvantaged schools as per section 8 of the 2004 school building programme the urban dimension of Giving Children an Even which is published on my Department’s website Break, a teacher of pupils with special edu- at www.education.ie. This project is at stage 4-5, cational needs will be allocated for every 80 detail design-bill of quantities, of architectural pupils to cater for the subset of pupils with higher planning. It has been assigned a band 3 rating by incidence special needs; in all-boys schools, the my Department in accordance with the published ratio will be one teacher for every 140 pupils; in criteria for prioritising large-scale projects. mixed schools, or all-girls schools with an enrol- The school planning section is currently ment of greater than 30% boys, one for every 150 reviewing all projects, which were not authorised pupils; and in all-girls schools including schools to proceed to construction as part of the 2004 with mixed junior classes but with 30% or less school building programme, including the school boys overall, one for every 200 pupils. It is referred to by the Deputy, with a view to includ- intended that the details of the new model will ing them as part of a multi-annual school building be set out in a comprehensive circular to issue to programme from 2005. The proposed project and schools for the commencement of the new its advancement including the current band rating school year. assigned to this project, will be considered as part The weighted allocation will enable teaching of this review. The Department cannot indicate support to be provided to pupils with higher the estimated cost for the asbestos removal as this incidence special educational needs and this will is regarded as commercially sensitive. 545 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 546

Physical Education Facilities. period 2003-06. In all, 195 proposals with an esti- mated total cost of over \120 million were sub- 242. Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for Edu- mitted from all of the coastal local authorities. cation and Science when approval will issue on Under the coast protection measure of the an application for the provision of a sports hall at National Development Plan 2000-2006, \52.01 a school (details supplied) in County Tip- million is identified. Expenditure under this perary. [19612/04] measure in 2003 was \2.9 million and an allo- Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. cation of \780,000 for the coastal protection pro- Dempsey): An application for a sports hall at the gramme has been made available to my Depart- school referred to by the Deputy is at early archi- ment for this year. tectural planning and is included in section 9 of I have allocated \500,000 this year to a major the 2004 school building programme. All projects coastal protection strategy study which my that will not go to construction as part of the 2004 Department commenced in 2002. The study is school building programme are being re-evalu- addressing the nature and extent of erosion at ated with a view to including them as part of a various locations and different types of coastline multi-annual programme from 2005 onwards. in Ireland and seeking to identify the most effec- Scoil Ruain will be included in this review. tive means, technically, financially and environ- mentally, in responding to particular instances School Disputes. and types of erosion. Last year, expenditure on 243. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for Edu- the study focused on an aerial survey of the Irish cation and Science the steps he or his Department coastline using oblique digital video photography. staff have taken to solve the ongoing dispute at The purpose of the survey was to obtain a com- Drumcrave national school outside Cavan town prehensive and up to date record of the present where parents have withdrawn the majority of the coastal erosion situation around the entire coast- 57 pupils; if his attention has been drawn to the line of Ireland in order to facilitate the identifi- fact that without independent intervention cation of priority areas for future expenditure. between the parents and management of this The completed survey also provides a useful school its future could be at risk and permanent baseline for the preparation and commissioning damage will be done to the 57 children involved of future surveys. It is expected that when this if a resolution is not found; his views on whether study is completed a more targeted approach to this is unacceptable; and if he will make a state- programme delivery will result and will enable a ment on the matter. [19613/04] greater level of efficiency in responding to coastal erosion change around the country. Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. I can confirm that Dublin City Council submit- Dempsey): I am aware of the difficulties arising ted proposals to my Department for funding cost- from the dispute in the school to which the ing in the region of \28.15 million. The council Deputy refers. I am concerned at the impact of undertook a coastal zone risk assessment study the dispute on the education of the pupils in the during 2003, towards which my Department con- school and I have asked my Department’s inspec- tributed \80,000. torate to monitor the situation. The resolution of The question of providing funding for coast the dispute is a matter for the authorities of the protection works in the post-2004 period will school in the first instance. However, I would depend on the outcome of the coast protection urge all involved to take all the necessary steps strategy study, the amount of Exchequer funding to resolve the dispute as speedily as possible, hav- available for such works and overall national ing due regard to the rights of all concerned. priorities.

Coastal Protection. Fisheries Protection. 244. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for 245. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he received responses from each coastal local the stage of advancement of the development of authority to his request in July 2002 for their pro- selective fishing gears which might qualify for the posals for coastal protection work for the period proposed new European support mechanism for 2003-06; the budget that has been allocated to environmentally friendly fishing methods; if he such works; the role his Department is taking in will provide examples of fishing gear which his organising coastal protection in view of the con- own Department would propose for inclusion in cerns regarding climate change and rising sea lev- such a programme, indicating the timeframe els (details supplied). [19553/04] within which they might be introduced and the benefits which might be expected from their Minister for Communications, Marine and use. [19554/04] Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Responsi- bility for coast protection rests with the property Minister for Communications, Marine and owner whether it be a local authority or a private Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): With a par- individual. In July 2002 my Department ticular perspective on the large quantities of fish requested all coastal local authorities to submit that are caught each year and discarded by EU proposals for coastal protection works for the fishing vessels, and the catching of over-fished 547 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 548

[Mr. D. Ahern.] OPW is in negotiations for acquisition of a site stocks as an unwanted by-catch, the Irish Presi- near Doolin and, as soon as a suitable site has dency identified the need to promote and encour- been acquired, the construction process, including age fishermen to move towards more environ- building design, planning permission application mentally friendly fishing, including the use of and tendering, will be proceeded with as quickly more selective fishing gears. The principal benefit as possible. Until the process of site acquisition is expected to flow from the development and use completed no specific funding can be allocated of such gear would be a significant reduction in for the Doolin project. The Irish Coastguard and such discards, which are estimated to amount to the OPW are giving top priority to the project for some 20 million tonnes of fish worldwide per a Doolin search and rescue centre in their work annum. under the station house building programme. Ireland’s initiative was endorsed by all member states and the Commission at last week’s Fisher- Electrical Contracting. ies Council. The agreed conclusions set out a 247. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for number of specific work assignments over the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources next two to three years in particular. There is also when the proposed scheme for the regulation of provision for a more long-term commitment in standards in electrical contracting, to be operated the context of new EU funding arrangements by the Commission for Energy Regulation, will post-2007. be established; the reasons for the delay in estab- Now that the EU has prioritised this matter, lishing the scheme; if he will bring forward new the immediate task for my Department is to measures to deal with the regulation of electrical undertake, in association with BIM, the Marine contractors here; and if he will make a statement Institute, the fishing industry and other interested on the matter. [19077/04] parties, the necessary planning and organisation of a national programme. The focus of Ireland’s Minister for Communications, Marine and programme will be on those fisheries of particular Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I have interest to Irish fishermen and also bearing in recently been informed by the Commission for mind the overriding requirement to assist recov- Energy Regulation, CER, that all parties have ery of key whitefish stock particularly. agreed to implement interim measures, on a vol- The development of this programme, which I untary basis, for the regulation of the electrical hope can be significantly progressed within a few contracting industry. This interim measure is the months, will be informed by work already first in a two-phase proposal advocated by the underway in BIM on, for example, by-catch CER in a report on to my Department, which it reduction measures in the Irish Sea prawn fishery. presented in March 2002. This is a good example of the type of initiative The CER undertook a review of the current that can be taken. I believe that we can, in the system for regulating electrical contractors, iden- coming months, develop a range of other pro- tified any shortcomings and considered options to jects. The timeframe for use of any modified address the deficiencies taking account of the cost gears will be determined by the duration and out- effectiveness, efficiency, and impact on the qual- come of what are likely to be multi-annual ity and safety of electrical installations of each studies. option. The interim measures involve the com- mission assuming the role of supervisory regu- Search and Rescue Service. lator for the proposed scheme; and the distri- bution system operator, DSO, being required to 246. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for assume responsibility for the day to day operation Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and monitoring of the scheme. the situation with regard to the proposed Doolin The DSO was tasked with developing new and Coastguard search and rescue centre; when he more detailed criteria which, when underpinning envisages the centre to commence; the funding legislation is in place, applicants to the com- that has been allocated towards the centre; if a mission for a licence to act as an electrical con- site has been acquired for same; and if he will tracting regulatory body will be obliged to meet. make a statement on the matter. [19068/04] In this regard, the DSO held discussions on the Minister for Communications, Marine and proposed new criteria with all relevant stake- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The Irish holders, including the Association of Electrical Coastguard of my Department operates a station Contractors of Ireland, AECI; the Electrical Con- house building programme for coastal units tractors Safety and Standards Association, around the coast. The Office of Public Works ECSSA; the Electrical Contractors Association, manages this programme for the Coastguard. ECA; the Electro-Technical Council of Ireland, The current position regarding the proposed ECTI; and the Register of Electrical Contractors new search and rescue station house at Doolin, of Ireland, RECI. County Clare, is that while financial sanction has The CER has confirmed that all parties have been granted in principle for the development the now agreed the general criteria which are based OPW have not yet been able to acquire a suitable on internationally recognised product certifi- site. It is not possible, therefore, to state a com- cation and quality systems standards. These cri- mencement date for the centre. However, the teria will address specific electrical contracting 549 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 550 industry requirements and ensure that the indus- Minister for Communications, Marine and try is operated in a manner which meets the high- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I propose to est standards of public safety. They take effect take Questions Nos. 249 and 250 together. immediately and the commission will be under- The last decentralisation of a business unit for taking a widespread publicity campaign over the which I have responsibility was the transfer of my coming months to alert the general public to the Department’s accounts branch to Castlebar, scheme. County Mayo. In 1976, approximately 50 staff in The second of the phases proposed involves the the accounts branch of the then forest and wild- interim measures being underpinned by legis- life service were decentralised to Castlebar. As a lation and specifically providing for: authorising result of departmental reconfigurations over the commission to licence self-regulatory bodies time, the accounts branch of my Department within the sector, in line with criteria submitted based in Castlebar today consists of 18 staff. by the distribution system operator, DSO; access Given the number of years that have elapsed, the by authorised officers to premises to inspect elec- extent of reconfiguration of departmental bound- trical installations in respect of public safety aries since this decentralisation and the requirements; and a penalties regime for non- consequent relocation of records, my Department compliance. In so far as this is concerned, the is not in a position to source the specific infor- Government has approved the heads of a com- mation requested by the Deputy in respect of the Castlebar decentralisation. prehensive electricity Bill which will provide, inter alia, for statutory authority for the com- 251. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for mission’s role as regulator of the electrical con- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources tracting industry. The Bill is currently with the the position regarding the decentralisation of the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel for drafting. Central Fisheries Board to Carrick-on-Shannon; if his attention has been drawn to the statement Decentralisation Programme. by SIPTU indicating the deep dissatisfaction of the staff who are proposed for decentralisation 248. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for and the attendant risk of industrial action; and if Communications, Marine and Natural Resources he will make a statement on the matter. the risk analysis and the cost benefit analysis [19140/04] which he has carried out or proposes to carry out in respect of decentralisation as it affects his Minister for Communications, Marine and Department. [19086/04] Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The proposal Minister for Communications, Marine and to relocate the Central Fisheries Board to Car- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): My Depart- rick-on-Shannon is being pursued as part of the ment has prepared an initial decentralisation plan Government’s wider decentralisation programme which encompasses risk analysis and risk miti- and, as such, will be undertaken in accordance gation strategies to ensure business continuity. with the proposals of the decentralisation imple- The plan sets out a number of strategies and mentation group’s report. actions which are being progressed in light of While I am aware of ongoing discussions developments at the centre. As part of the plan, regarding the decentralisation programme a costing exercise is being undertaken. between the Irish Congress of Trade Unions State agencies sub-group and the Department of 249. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Finance, I am not a party to those discussions. I Communications, Marine and Natural Resources am also aware of the continuing policy adopted the average annual increase in salary costs, over- by SIPTU confirmed, I understand, at its recent time and travel to, from and in the decentralised meeting with shop stewards advising members offices in the three years following decentralis- not to co-operate in any way with implementation ation compared to these costs for those business mechanisms, plans, etc., but also expressing the units in the three years preceding decentralis- earnest wish to resolve the matter through dia- ation, in respect of the last decentralisation by his logue and discussion. I sincerely hope that these Department. [19101/04] issues can be resolved through collaborative dis- cussion at national and local level. 250. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources An Post Restructuring. the number of persons decentralised and the full duration of the project in respect of the last 252. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for decentralisation by his Department; the number Communications, Marine and Natural Resources of internal and external transfers which were the role he has had in the ongoing negotiations in required to obtain the requisite number of per- An Post with regard to the future development sons decentralising; the amount of time necessary of the company. [19379/04] to train decentralising persons and the percentage Minister for Communications, Marine and and duration of overlapping staff which was Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): As Minister required; and the additional costs for overtime with responsibility for An Post, I have taken a and travel and subsistence incurred. [19116/04] significant interest in the company, especially 551 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 552

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Question No. 254 answered with Question since the scale of the financial difficulties became No. 11. apparent. The financial difficulties being experi- enced by An Post are the outward manifestation Mobile Telephony. of long-standing and deep-seated structural prob- 255. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for lems within the company. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources The board of An Post submitted a recovery the steps he proposes to take to improve the qual- strategy to me last September. This strategy sets ity of the mobile telephone service; and if he will out a road map to return the company to profit- make a statement on the matter. [19565/04] ability by 2005 and the way forward is the agree- ment and implementation of the recovery strat- 256. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for egy. I outlined this view to the board of the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources company when I met it last September and reiter- if he has had contact with or received communi- ated it to company management since then. In cation from the telecommunications regulator addition, my officials meet An Post management regarding the need to improve the quality and on a monthly basis and formal reporting struc- extent of the mobile telephone service; and if he tures have been established. will make a statement on the matter. [19566/04] While my Department will continue to assist in Minister for Communications, Marine and any way possible the necessary restructuring, the Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I propose to agreement and implementation of the recovery take Questions Nos. 255 and 256 together. strategy is primarily a matter for the board and In common with other Deputies, I understand management of An Post and the trade unions, the importance of citizens and businesses having and in this regard negotiations are ongoing access to a high quality mobile telephone service between management and unions under the aus- with coverage across the country. The responsi- pices of the LRC. bility for achieving this rests with the mobile phone operators, which are regulated by Com- Fishing Vessel Licences. Reg. While I am responsible for setting policy in 253. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for the telecommunications sector, the key role on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the ground of ensuring the operators provide if a person (details supplied) in County Cork will quality signals and satisfactory signal coverage be granted the lobster pot licence for which they rests with ComReg. My officials are in regular applied in July 2003. [19399/04] communication with ComReg on a variety of issues. However, the specific issues that the Minister for Communications, Marine and Deputy raises are the responsibility of ComReg Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I assume the to regulate. The Irish mobile penetration rate Deputy is referring to applications for sea-fishing now stands at 88%, which approximately 3.5 mill- boat licences submitted under the scheme for the ion mobile subscribers at the end of March 2004. licensing of traditional pot-fishing boats in the The average European Union mobile penetration Irish inshore fleet. The programme for Govern- rate is just above 80%. ment contained a commitment to introduce a new fleet licensing policy to ensure equity, trans- Telecommunications Services. parency and an independent appeals process. Fol- 257. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for lowing on from that commitment, the Fisheries Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Amendment) Act 2003 was enacted. Among the steps he intends to take to address deficienc- other things, this Act transferred the function of ies in the telecommunications network with par- sea-fishing boat licensing from the Minister for ticular reference to the need to bring the quality Communications, Marine and Natural Resources of service here into line with that in other neigh- to the licensing authority for sea-fishing boats bouring and competing jurisdictions; and if he which operates on an independent basis, subject will make a statement on the matter. [19567/04] to criteria set out in section 3 of the Act. For this reason, all applications for sea-fishing boat Minister for Communications, Marine and licences are now considered by the licensing auth- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Quality of ority for sea-fishing boats. The head of the licens- service in the telecommunications sector is a mat- ing authority is Mr. Aidan Hodson, registrar gen- ter for the Commission for Communications eral of fishing boats, and the office of the Regulator, ComReg, and I have no function in authority is at the Department of Communi- the matter. cations Marine and Natural Resources, Leeson Lane, Dublin 2. I understand from the licensing Telecommunications Services. authority that the process of consideration of the 258. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for large number of applications received under the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources scheme is nearing conclusion and all applicants, his plans to meet at an early date the communi- including the person referred to by the Deputy, cations requirements of both the industrial and will receive a written response within the next domestic sector; and if he will make a statement few weeks. on the matter. [19568/04] 553 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 554

Minister for Communications, Marine and try as high as possible, and has undertaken sev- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The immedi- eral initiatives in this regard. ate responsibility for meeting the communi- The Dooish exploration well, which was drilled cations requirements of the industrial and com- in 2002 by Enterprise Energy Ireland, now Shell mercial sector in Ireland lies with the private E& P Ireland, off the Donegal coast and which companies which operate in a liberalised market discovered a gas condensate accumulation, was under the regulatory supervision of the Com- re-entered and deepened in 2003. Both my mission for Communications Regulation, Department and Shell E and P are continuing to ComReg. analyse the well results and integrate them with other data from the area. However, it is Question No. 259 answered orally with Ques- extremely encouraging that this well, only the tion No. 6. second to be drilled in the Irish sector of the Rockall Basin, proved to be a significant dis- Offshore Exploration. covery, and my Department has emphasised the positive implications of this discovery for the 260. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for prospectivity of the basin as a whole. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources The mineral exploration sites currently show- the full extent of research or exploration cur- ing the greatest promise are largely adjacent to rently ongoing in respect of identification of existing base metal mines at Navan, County deposits of oil, gas or other minerals; and if he Meath — Tara mines Limited — Lisheen. County will make a statement on the matter. [19570/04] Tipperary Anglo American and Galmoy, County 262. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Kilkenny — Arcon Mines Limited Additional Communications, Marine and Natural Resources resources have been discovered which have the the oil, gas or mineral exploration sites currently potential to extend the life of those mines, and showing greatest promise; and if he will make a applications for additional State mining facilities for these are currently being dealt with in my statement on the matter. [19572/04] Department. Another very promising area where Minister for Communications, Marine and significant zinc mineralisation has been found is Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I propose to east County Limerick, while gold exploration in take Questions Nos. 260 and 262 together. County Monaghan continues to provide The level of petroleum exploration activity is encouragement. directly related to the number of authorisations 261. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for issued. At present, both licences and activity are Communications, Marine and Natural Resources at a relatively low level. This summer one firm the full extent of direct investment or tax fore- exploration well is planned and one seismic sur- gone in respect of oil, gas or other mineral explor- vey has been completed. The exploration well ation in the past five years; and if he will make a will be drilled shortly on the Blackrock prospect statement on the matter. [19571/04] in the Celtic Sea area by Providence Resources plc under its licensing option 03/1. The seismic Minister for Communications, Marine and survey was undertaken by Eni Ireland BV in the Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): In respect of Porcupine Basin under its exploration licence oil and gas, while I or my Department does not 1/99 and was completed on 16 June. have the costs of exploration activities, these In addition to petroleum exploration, the activities included the drilling of six offshore and industry carry out joint research projects in the two onshore exploration wells. In addition to Irish offshore under the chairmanship of my these there have been 24 3D and 14 2D seismic Department. This research is aimed at promoting surveys. Costs would also include the acquisition, a greater knowledge and understanding of the processing, analysis and interpretation of the data Irish offshore and topics include geology and geo- from these surveys. physics, engineering and the environment. Sev- In respect of non-petroleum minerals, the total eral projects have been completed under the joint exploration expenditure by holders of prospect- research effort and many more are underway or ing licences from 1998 to 2002, the most recent at the planning stages. five year period for which figures are available, With regard to non-petroleum minerals, as the was \48.33 million. With regard to tax foregone, Deputy knows, exploration in this country is in respect of petroleum and non-petroleum min- undertaken by private enterprise holders of erals, this is a matter for the Minister for Finance. prospecting licences granted under the Minerals Development Acts 1940 to 1999. There were 281 Question No. 262 answered with Question current prospecting licences at the end of May No. 260. 2004. Continuous exploration activity is one of the requirements for holding a prospecting Fishing Fleet Modernisation. licence. My Department continues to be actively 263. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for engaged in promoting investment interest in min- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources erals exploration from overseas companies, in if he has satisfied himself that the Irish fishing order to keep the level of exploration in the coun- fleet has been modernised and equipped in line 555 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 556

[Mr. Durkan.] fishing initiative, which began with a conference to meet modern standards; and if he will make a in Dundalk in March and culminated with agree- statement on the matter. [19573/04] ment on Council conclusions in Luxembourg last week. The agreed conclusions set out a number Minister for Communications, Marine and of specific work assignments during the next two Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): The Govern- to three years, in particular, to promote and ment recognises the overriding importance of sec- encourage the achievement of more environmen- uring a safe, modern and competitive Irish fleet tally-friendly fishing and a resultant conser- and to this end \95 million is being invested vation dividend. under the National Development Plan 2000-2006. Fleet development has been a particular imple- mentation priority and the Government has Maritime Safety. delivered on this priority by approving 60 renewal 266. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for and modernisation projects and 111 safety pro- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources jects under the current programme. if adequate health and safety standards currently apply to all passenger and cargo sea-going vessels; 264. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for and if he will make a statement on the matter. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources [19576/04] the extent to which the capacity of the Irish fish- ing fleet has been enhanced in the past five years; Minister for Communications, Marine and and if he will make a statement on the matter. Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): I have pre- [19574/04] viously advised the House that standards for all sea-going vessels are developed and adopted at Minister for Communications, Marine and international level. These standards apply to pass- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Ireland’s fleet enger and cargo sea-going vessels and include capacity levels are set by the EU. The position at health and safety standards at an operational 31 December 1996 was 72,334 gross tonnes and level on board these vessels. 208,179 kw. This was increased on 31 January Under Irish and international law all passenger 2001 to 83,704 gross tonnes and 213,409 kw. and, and cargo vessels, trading into and out of Irish with effect from 1 January 2003, this limit was ports are required to carry the appropriate certifi- again increased to 86,981 gross tonnes and cation to demonstrate compliance with Inter- 230,226 kw. The latter tonnage and power national Maritime Organisation, IMO, and Inter- amounts are subject to revision. national Labour Organisation, ILO, requirements. All vessels are subject to surveys Fisheries Protection. and inspections under the relevant flag state or 265. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for port state control inspection system. The inter- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources national conventions covered by these inspections the beneficial effect of EU fish conservation poli- include the International Convention on Stan- cies to date; and if he will make a statement on dards of Training, Certification and Watchkeep- the matter. [19575/04] ing for Seafarers, the STCW convention. All crew on board a vessel must have proper certification Minister for Communications, Marine and to ensure that they are suitably trained and can Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Under the adequately and safely discharge the duties of the reformed Common Fisheries Policy, conservation positions they hold. policies are directed towards long-term stock The surveyors attached to the maritime safety recovery and management plans. These plans aim directorate of my Department conduct regular towards a progressive recovery of certain stocks inspections of vessels, including unannounced to a safe biological level over a period of time checks, to ensure compliance with the relevant and may include such elements as limitations on conventions and regulations. Safety conditions catch and fishing effort, strengthened control and relating to manning levels, maximum passenger enforcement and seasonal closures. Recovery numbers allowed, the continued availability of plans have recently been agreed for certain cod safety equipment are among the issues which stocks including the Irish Sea and waters to the inspectors focus on. north-west of Ireland and for northern hake. Two The monitoring of vessels by regular inspec- further plans have been proposed by the Com- tions is proving to be an effective measure in mission and further proposals are expected encouraging full compliance and implementation shortly. As these plans are long-term in nature, of the health and safety standards and is an their effects will not become apparent for some effective method in ensuring that the vessels time. However, I am confident that they will suc- operating into and out of Irish ports and waters ceed in their aims of conserving stocks as they are are complying with international convention a multi-faceted and tailored approach to the requirements. problem. I am nonetheless very conscious of the need to Fisheries Protection. develop further measures to assist stock recovery. For this reason, in the context of the Irish Presi- 267. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for dency, I launched the environmentally-friendly Communications, Marine and Natural Resources 557 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 558 if he has satisfied himself that sufficient resources a major contribution to employment and income are available to meet requirements in terms of in our coastal regions. It is my policy to maximise fisheries protection and coastal surveillance; and these economic and social benefits within a if he will make a statement on the matter. framework aimed at ensuring stability and sus- [19577/04] tainability in the industry going forward. Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Control and Decentralisation Programme. enforcement is a fundamental element for the 269. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Arts, effective implementation of the Common Fisher- Sport and Tourism the risk analysis and the cost ies Policy. The newly reformed CFP, agreed in benefit analysis which he has carried out or pro- December 2002, provides for strengthened con- poses to carry out in respect of decentralisation trol and enforcement measures. I fully endorse as it affects his Department. [19087/04] this enhanced commitment to control and enforcement. Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Effective enforcement of conservation rules is O’Donoghue): As the Deputy will be aware, the a priority for all member states and each member decentralisation implementation group, chaired state has a clear responsibility to monitor and by Mr. Phil Flynn, in its first report on 31 March control fishing activity within their respective 2004 recommended that each organisation partic- jurisdictions. The challenge of achieving effective ipating in the decentralisation programme should control and enforcement of fisheries’ rules is prepare its own implementation plan and submit ongoing and requires close collaboration and co- it to the group. My Department has submitted its operation between member states. It is clear that initial implementation plan which addresses the fisheries enforcement throughout the EU must main issues arising from the decentralisation of continue to improve if the conservation impera- the Department to Killarney. tives facing the management of our European fish The plan identifies the main risks associated stocks are to be met and this will require the con- with the move and outlines strategies to mitigate tinued commitment of resources to meet this such risks. I am particularly conscious of the challenge successfully. issues such as service and business continuity, Ireland invests heavily in this regard with efficiency and effectiveness and financial impli- increased resources allocated to monitoring and cations and intend that strategies are put in place surveillance activity both onshore and at sea. In to minimise any such risks. The plan also sets out particular, the number of sea fisheries protection the significant advantages for the organisation officers has been increasing significantly in recent and for the staff who will move to Killarney. years and they are deployed at coastal ports. At this stage, it is not possible to undertake a Overall, I am satisfied that adequate resources cost benefit analysis of the decentralisation of my are available for fisheries protection but the mat- Department. The further development of the ter will be kept under ongoing reivew. I will con- plan as additional information becomes available tinue to work for more effective control in all in respect of the issues relating to people, prop- member states in order to ensure a level playing erty and business as identified in the Flynn report field for the fishing industry. will entail appropriate cost benefit and risk analy- sis of the decentralisation of my Department to Fishing Industry Development. Killarney. 268. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources 270. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Arts, the extent to which the need of fishing families Sport and Tourism the average annual increase are being met following the introduction of catch in salary costs, overtime and travel to, from and restrictions; and if he will make a statement on in the decentralised offices in the three years fol- the matter. [19578/04] lowing decentralisation compared to these costs for those business units in the three years preced- Minister for Communications, Marine and ing decentralisation, in respect of the last decen- Natural Resources (Mr. D. Ahern): Ireland’s tralisation by his Department. [19102/04] national quotas for 2004 show an overall growth of approximately 8%, in volume terms, on the 271. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Arts, equivalent figure for 2003. While this figure Sport and Tourism the number of persons includes a modest reduction in the whitefish and decentralised and the full duration of the project, shellfish quotas, from 37,635 tonnes in 2003 to in respect of the last decentralisation by his 36,005 tonnes in 2004, this is more than offset by Department; the number of internal and external increased pelagic quotas. In addition, the quotas transfers which were required to obtain the requi- of whitefish and shellfish available to Irish fisher- site number of persons decentralising; the amount men in 2004 exceed the landings figure for the of time necessary to train decentralising persons Irish fishing fleet in 2002, the latest year for which and the percentage and duration of overlapping figures are available. staff which was required; and the additional costs The catching sector, together with associated for overtime and travel and subsistence processing industries onshore, continues to make incurred. [19117/04] 559 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 560

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. ling \50.8 million to 717 projects. The following O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. schedule lists the provisional grant allocation and 270 and 271 together. the amount sought by each applicant under the To date, no section of my Department has been 2004 sports capital programme. Where the decentralised under a Government decentralis- “Sought” column is blank this indicates that the ation programme. Accordingly, no information of applicant did not supply this information on the the nature sought by the Deputy exists. application form. I will shortly be making further announcements Sports Capital Programme. under the 2004 sports capital programme in respect of funding for projects of major signifi- 272. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Arts, cance which, while meeting local needs, will also Sport and Tourism the organisations that applied add considerably to the national and regional for sports capital grants in 2004; the organisations sporting infrastructure which is required both for which were successful; the amount they received; increasing levels of participation and improving and the amount applied for and received on a standards of performance. Where the grant col- county basis in each case. [19372/04] umn is blank it should indicate where the decision Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. on a grant allocation has not yet been made. O’Donoghue): The national lottery-funded sports In keeping with Government policy, the allo- capital programme, which is administered by my cations reflect special priority for the develop- Department, allocates funding to sporting and ment of sports and recreational facilities in areas community organisations at local, regional and designated as disadvantaged, that is, RAPID, national level throughout the country. The pro- CLA´ R and local drugs task force areas. The gramme is advertised on an annual basis. Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht The 2004 national lottery-funded sports capital Affairs, Deputy O´ Cuı´v, whose Department programme was advertised in the national news- administers the CLA´ R programme, recently papers on 30 November and 1 December 2003. announced additional top-up funding of over \1.3 The deadline for receipt of applications was 16 million from CLA´ R to projects that were pro- January 2004. A total of 1,304 applications were visionally allocated funding under the 2004 sports received before that deadline and these were capital programme. The Minister will also shortly evaluated against the programme’s assessment be announcing top-up funding for projects that criteria, which are outlined in the guidelines, were provisionally allocated funding under this terms and conditions of the programme. Follow- year’s sports capital programme which were ing this evaluation process, last month I located in RAPID areas and were endorsed by announced provisional funding allocations total- their local RAPID area implementation teams.

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\

Carlow 632,000 1,415,490 Bagenalstown Soccer/Tennis/Pitch and Putt Club 60,000 74,000 Ballon GAA Club 40,000 53,568 Ben Mulhall Memorial Park Association 60,000 100,000 Carlow Golf Club 0 100,000 Carlow Sports and Social Club 20,000 50,000 Dr. Cullen Park Committee c/o Coiste Condae Ceatharloch CLG 200,000 E´ ire O´ g GAA Club 200,000 262,823 Myshall-Drumphea Sports Council Ltd 0 170,000 New Oak Boys Football Club 2,000 3,124 Old Leighlin Basketball Club 10,000 12,000 Old Leighlin GAA Club 10,000 10,460 Palatine GAA (Cnoc Arda) 45,000 50,000 Rathanna Community Group 0 90,000 Rathvilly GAA Club 45,000 50,000 St. Patrick’s Boys AFC 70,000 95,000 Tinryland GAA Club 70,000 94,515

Cavan 925,000 2,849,130 Bailieborough Swimming and Leisure Centre 0 143,752 Baillieborough Shamrocks GAA Club 0 33,800 Ballinagh Leisure and Sports Complex Trust Ltd 70,000 105,000 Ballyhaise Multi-purpose Sports Facility 20,000 92,414 Ballyjamesduff Soccer Club 50,000 60,000 Castlerahan GAA Club Ballyjamesduff 0 90,000 561 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 562

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Cavan Amateur Boxing Club 0 5,000 Cavan Town Council — Tullacmongan Pitches 50,000 120,651 Coiste Bhreifne uı´ Raghallaigh an Ca´bhan 200,000 Cootehill GAA Club 20,000 36,580 Crosserlough GAA Club 70,000 105,000 Drumalee GAA Club 15,000 25,500 Drumgoon GAA Club 0 130,000 Drung GAA Club 0 300,000 Kill Community Development Limited 60,000 92,600 Killeshandra Leaguers GAA Club 0 150,000 Kingscourt Handball and Racquetball Club 100,000 134,254 Lacken Celtic GAA Club 150,000 250,000 Laragh Area Development Group Limited 0 98,998 Loch Gowna GAA Club 0 152,296 Mullahoran GAA Club 80,000 150,000 Shercock Sports & Recreation Facilities Ltd 65,000 103,285 St. Mary’s Brass and Reed Band 0 20,000 Templeport St. Aidan’s GAA Club 100,000 150,000 Virginia Rugby Football Club 75,000 100,000

Clare 1,027,000 4,168,664 Banner GAA Club 30,000 50,000 Burren Sub Aqua Club Ltd 20,000 28,484 Clonlara Leisure Athletic & Sports Society Ltd. 150,000 200,000 Corbally United Football Club 0 230,000 Corofin Community GAA Development 20,000 27,000 Cratloe GAA Development Committee 150,000 190,000 East Clare Golf Club 0 165,325 Ennis RAPID Community Assembly 90,000 154,869 Ennis Sub Aqua Club 20,000 31,272 Ennis Town Council — Lees Road Centre 1,314,428 Ennistymon Recreation and Leisure Centre 22,000 25,000 Killaloe Ballina Tennis Club 25,000 33,000 Killmurry GAA Club 25,000 28,000 Kilmaley Sports and Leisure Complex 0 187,972 Lifford Oldtown Football Club 50,000 85,000 Meelick GAA Club 45,000 50,000 Park Rangers AFC 5,000 6,500 Parteen St Nicholas GAA Club 30,000 37,000 Scariff GAA Club 0 110,000 Seanchonill Sports Centre 0 396,388 St. Breckan’s GAA Club Lisdoonvarna 40,000 80,426 St. Senan’s Rugby Football Club 160,000 210,000 Tulla Soccer Club 70,000 255,000 Wolfe Tones Camogie Club 75,000 97,000 Wolfe Tones na Sionna GAA Club 0 176,000

Cork 4,874,000 23,696,715 Aghada GAA Club 0 295,000 Ardfield/Rathbarry Rowing Club 7,000 10,000 Ballincollig GAA Club 70,000 90,000 Ballydehob Community Association Limited 0 93,055 Ballyhea GAA Club 90,000 121,000 Ballymartle GAA Club 0 152,000 Ballyphehane Community Association 0 350,000 Baltimore Sailing Club 35,000 52,483 Banteer Community Sportsfield Ltd 45,000 54,429 Banteer Youth Club 1,000 2,100 563 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 564

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Bantry Rowing Club 8,000 14,911 Bishopstown Hurling and Football Club 50,000 70,000 Blackpool Community Co-op Service Centre Ltd 40,000 55,356 Blackrock National Hurling Club 0 200,000 Blarney GAA Club 50,000 126,000 Boherbue GAA Club 25,000 29,400 Bo´ l Chumann Na hE´ ireann 160,840 Brian Dillon’s GAA Club 100,000 151,040 Carrigaline United AFC 0 44,098 Casement Celtic Football Club 26,000 30,000 Castlelyons GAA Club 65,000 77,000 Castletown Kinneigh Table Tennis Club 0 120,000 Charleville Rugby Club 60,000 72,675 Clonakilty Enterprise Board Ltd 0 50,000 Clonakilty GAA Club 100,000 226,467 Clonakilty Rugby Club 70,000 81,232 Coachford Soccer Club 75,000 85,000 Cobh GAA Club 80,000 200,000 Cobh Pirates R.F.C 0 51,212 Cobh Ramblers Football Club 265,000 College Corinthians AFC 250,000 1,930,388 Community and Renewal Enterprises 150,000 225,000 Cork Amateur Weightlifting Association 0 1,000 Cork Boat Club 0 25,997 Cork City Council — Fairfield Dressing Rooms 90,000 130,000 Cork City Council — Mahon Sports Project 100,000 140,000 Cork City Council — Togher Community Association/Ballyphehane 80,000 100,000 Community Association Cork Co. Council — Powerscourt Housing Estate, Mallow 70,000 112,000 Cork County Cricket Club 4,000 5,000 Cork CSI Campsite Activity and Sports Centre 50,000 60,000 Crosshaven Rowing Club 6,000 11,300 Crosshaven Rugby Football Club 0 31,500 Cuman Peile Mhichil Naofa 40,000 50,000 Cumann Camogaı´ochta Iniscartha 40,000 58,908 Cumann Ioma´naı´ochta agus Peile Baile na mBocht (Mayfield GAA) 30,000 40,000 Cumann Ioma´naı´ochta Cloch Dhubh (Cloughduv Hurling Club) 180,000 217,341 Davis College Community Facility, Mallow 0 194,964 Dolphin Swimming Club 0 2,027 Donoughmore Hurling and Football Club 20,000 26,200 Dromina GAA Club 50,000 64,000 Dromtariffe GAA Club 40,000 56,000 Durrus and District Community Council 150,000 240,000 Fermoy Boys/ Girls Amateur Boxing Club 5,000 7,000 Fermoy Concert Band 0 19,355 Fermoy GAA Complex 0 60,800 Fermoy Rowing Club 35,000 45,000 Fishermen’s Rowing Club, Cobh 0 4,200 Freemount GAA Club 35,000 41,669 Glandore Harbour Yacht Club 10,000 14,744 Goleen and District Community Council 0 150,000 Harlequins Cricket Club 0 8,961 INE Church of Ireland Cork Young Mens Association 200,000 250,000 Irish Amateur Rowing Union 1,500,000 Kanturk AFC 60,000 70,560 Kanturk Cycling Club 15,000 24,272 Kilcrohane Development Association 0 40,000 565 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 566

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Kilmacabea & Glandore Rowing Club 8,500 12,770 Kilshannig GAA Club \250,000 400,000 Kinsale and Dock Rowing Club 0 11,232 Kiskeam GAA Club 30,000 50,000 Leeds AFC 25,000 30,955 Leevale Athletic Club 15,000 20,000 Lisgoold GAA Club 30,000 34,782 Lismire GAA Club 40,000 47,000 Lismire Youth Club 0 2,000 Lombardstown Tennis Club 20,000 24,500 Lyre Community Sports & Cultural Association 0 300,000 Lyre Rovers FC 35,000 52,210 Mahon Association Ltd 4,186,949 Mallow GAA Club 400,000 500,000 Mallow RFC 0 148,000 Mallow Town Council — Gymnasium 0 324,000 Mallow Town Council — Sandfield Playing Pitch 25,000 30,400 Mallow Town Council — Woodview Drive Playing Pitch 40,000 56,800 Mayfield United AFC 361,275 Millstreet Town Park 15,000 24,830 Mitchelstown Rugby Team 2,500 3,080 Mourneabbey Community Council 100,000 120,000 Munster Branch IRFU — Musgrave Park 1,000,000 Munster Football Association — Turner’s Cross 800,000 Myross Rowing Club Ltd 0 9,350 Na Piarsaigh Hurling and Football Club 300,000 800,000 Nemo Rangers GAA Club 200,000 2,000,000 Newmarket GAA Club 0 110,000 Newtown Shandrum GAA Club 60,000 70,000 Old Christians Rugby Football Club 0 190,000 Pa´irc Na Cola´istı´, Charleville 0 \500,000 Passage Soccer Club 50,000 \76,000 Passage West Rowing Club 0 13,475 Rapthpeacon GAA Club 0 36,725 Rathluirc GAA Club 65,000 83,000 Ringmahon Rangers 100,000 161,840 Riverstown Amateur Boxing Club 0 5,600 Rockchapel GAA Club 50,000 66,458 Roscarbery Rowing Club 6,000 8,290 Rushbrooke Rowing Club 7,000 10,683 Rylane Boxing Club 4,000 5,950 Schull Yawl Rowing Club 4,000 7,700 SMA Parish Community Sports Centre, Cork City 0 500,000 Sovereign Dive Club 0 24,000 Spirit of Kinsale Yawl Rowing Club 0 20,000 St. Anne’s Pitch & Putt Club, Blarney Road 15,000 17,000 St. Catherine’s GAA Club 40,000 45,000 St. Colman’s College Fermoy 0 26,950 St. Finbarr’s Pipe Band, The Glen 0 8,000 St. James’ GAA Club, Clonakilty 0 294,000 St. Joseph’s Foundation, Charleville 70,000 86,430 St. Mary’s Association Football Club 15,000 19,732 St. Oliver Plunkett GAA Club 50,000 63,000 St. Patrick’s Youth Group Band, Bandon 0 30,000 St. Vincent’s Hurling & Football Club 0 300,000 Sunnyside Amateur Boxing Club 5,000 6,000 Tadhg Mac Carthaigh GAA Club 15,000 70,000 567 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 568

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Togher Athletic Club 0 4,040 Tullylease Community Council 0 55,000 Whitechurch & Waterloo Community Association 25,000 38,590 Whitegate Rowing Club 0 8,635 Youghal GAA Club \50,000 96,000

Donegal 1,802,000 13,030,440 Aodh Ruadh GAA Park Development Committee 100,000 151,500 Ballybofey and Stranorlar Golf Club 0 68,139 Ballyshannon Leisure Centre Management Limited 0 320,000 Buncrana Golf Club 0 150,000 Buncrana Youth & Community Development 0 500,000 Bundoran GAA Club 0 120,000 Cappry Rovers FC 30,000 52,164 Castlefinn Partnership Initiative Ltd 0 490,598 CLG Carndomhnaigh (Carndonagh GAA) 0 375,000 CLG Ghleann Fhinne (Glenfinn GAA) 50,000 80,000 CLG na Cealla Beaga (Killybegs GAA) 65,000 76,149 Cockhill Celtic Football and Youth Club 0 47,110 Convoy Arsenal F.C. 0 47,000 Creeslough 2000 Project 0 250,000 Curragh Athletic/CAKE Ltd 0 100,000 Deele Community Sports Development Committee 0 56,000 Desertegney Youth Club 0 30,000 Donaghmore GAA Setanta Hurling Club 0 18,500 Donegal Motor Club 0 28,000 Donegal Town Basketball Club 0 Donegal Town Soccer Club 25,000 31,978 Dunkineely Celtic F.C. 0 88,000 Eany Celtic Football Club/ Inver Community Development Co-Op 0 51,200 Erne Enterprise Development Company Ltd. 0 300,000 Finn Harps Co-Op Society Ltd. 2,179,489 Foresters Sport & Social Club, Killybegs 0 1,000,000 Gaeil Fhanadha CLG 130,000 178,435 Glenswilly GAA Club 80,000 128,000 Greencastle Community Development Company 0 241,833 Gweedore Celtic Football Club 0 50,000 Inishowen Football League 100,000 176,750 Inishowen Sub-Aqua Club 15,000 26,512 Inniskeel Athletics Club / Parents Association 0 110,833 Letterkenny & District Caledonia Pipe band 0 20,938 Letterkenny Athletic Club 0 20,400 Letterkenny Blaze Basketball Club 3,000 5,322 Letterkenny Community Centre Ltd 0 Letterkenny Golf Club 0 200,000 Letterkenny Rugby Club/Letterkenny Gaels GAA Club 0 712,268 Lifford Athletic Club 175,000 247,078 Manorcunningham Orange Hall Bowling Club 10,000 11,295 Milford Park Development Committee 100,000 200,000 Moville Celtic FC 90,000 117,859 Moville Community Complex Development Company Ltd 0 10,026 Naomh Conaill (St. Connel’s) GAA Club 70,000 115,500 Naomh Pa´draig GAA Club, Muff 0 50,000 Ozanam Community and Sports Centre, Dunfanaghy 170,000 227,198 Quigleys Point Community Centre Ltd 135,000 165,312 Raphoe Hockey Club 8,000 11,000 Ray Athletic Youth Club 0 60,000 569 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 570

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Red Hughs GAA Club, Killygordon 85,000 102,000 Redcastle Community Development Ltd 70,000 100,000 Robert Emmets GAA Club 20,000 25,000 St. Catherine’s Accordion Band — Killybegs 0 3,000 St. Eunan’s GAA Club 150,000 2,600,000 St. John Bosco Club, Milltown 40,000 80,000 St. Johnston Cricket Club 5,000 6,300 St. Michael’s GAA Club 75,000 160,000 St. Patrick’s GAA Club, Malin 0 128,000 St. Patrick’s Park Trust, Carndonagh 0 107,119 Twin Towns Amateur Boxing Club 1,000 1,635 Whitestrand Football Club 0 20,000

Dublin 11,941,000 62,586,888 Aerlingus Divers 0 24,000 Aquamarine Divers 0 18,200 Athletic Union League 35,000 40,000 Aughrim Street Scout Unit 0 9,960 Avoca Hockey Club and Newpark Comprehensive School 250,000 350,000 Ayrfield Community Association 0 26,000 Ayrfield United FC 0 23,000 Balbriggan Rugby Football Club 0 600,000 Baldoyle United 0 250,000 Ballinteer St. John’s GAA Club 0 250,000 Ballyboden St. Enda’s GAA Club 200,000 600,000 Ballyboden Wanderers GAA Club 100,000 125,000 Ballybrack Football Club 30,000 40,000 Ballybrack/Loughlinstown Boxing Club 80,000 110,000 Ballyfermot Leisure Co-operative Ltd 150,000 323,000 Ballymun Kickhams 0 120,000 Ballymun Regeneration Ltd — Balcurris Park 40,000 55,000 Ballymun Regeneration Ltd. — Coultry Park 40,000 90,000 Ballymun Regeneration Ltd. — Meakstown Equestrian Arena 0 2,250,000 Ballymun Regeneration Ltd. — Poppintree Centre 0 2,000,000 Ballymun Regional Youth Resource 300,000 471,555 Ballymun United FC 300,000 1,272,588 Basketball Ireland 150,000 200,000 Bay City Amateur Boxing Club 2,000 4,000 Belgrove Football Club 0 200,000 Blakestown Mountview Youth Initiative and Blakestown Mountview 15,000 30,312 Neighbourhood Youth Project Bushido Kickboxing Karate Palmerstown 4,000 10,500 Cabra Panthers Amateur Boxing Club 2,000 3,570 Castleknock Lawn Tennis Club 0 375,185 Catholic Youth Care outdoor bounds programme 5,000 11,158 Cherry Orchard Football Club 0 225,000 City of Dublin YMCA 250,000 528,936 Citywise, Jobstown 0 48,575 Clann Mhuire GAA Club 65,000 101,599 Clanna Gael Fontenoy GAC 0 295,600 Clondalkin Athletic Club 2,000 2,174 Clondalkin Gymnastics Club 3,000 6,500 Clondalkin Rugby Football Ltd. 30,000 40,000 Clondalkin Sports & Leisure Centre 300,000 384,000 Clonsilla Historical Society 0 13,920 Clontarf Cricket Club 20,000 21,500 Clontarf GAA Club — Seafield Road grounds 140,000 200,000 571 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 572

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Clontarf GAA Club — St Anne’s Park pitches 0 250,000 Clontarf Lawn Tennis Club 50,000 80,000 Clontarf Yacht & Boat Club 0 180,000 Coiste A´ tha Cliath CLG (Dublin Co. GAA Board) — Parnell Park 225,000 Commercial Rowing Club 65,000 86,000 Coolmine Community School Sports Complex 200,000 306,503 Coolmine Rugby Football Club 350,000 366,000 Croı´ Ro´ Naofa GAA club 140,000 224,000 Crumlin Bowling Club 0 100,000 Cuala GAA Club 80,000 120,000 Cumann Ba´ire Setanta 150,000 250,000 Cumann Naomh Maur 60,000 99,451 Cumann Ra´s Tailteann — FBD Milk Ra´s 5,000 7,623 Cycling Ireland — Corkagh Park 387,207 Cycling Ireland — National Cycling Safety School, Eamon Ceannt Park 85,000 102,250 DCC — Northway Estate 0 7,000 DCC — Albert College Park 0 7,000 DCC — Brickfield Park Dressing Rooms, Drimnagh 100,000 200,000 DCC — Bushy Park pitches 0 56,000 DCC — Bushy Park Skateboard Park 100,000 140,000 DCC — Edenmore Pitch and Putt 0 28,000 DCC — Irishtown Stadium 350,000 1,033,387 DCC — Johnstown Park, Finglas 1,770,400 DCC — Longmeadows Pitch and Putt, Inchicore 0 20,000 DCC — Mellowes Park pitches 15,000 20,000 DCC — O’Devaney Gardens Sports and Community Centre 700,000 1,000,000 DCC — Sheriff Street Park 65,000 80,000 DCC — St Anne’s Park 40,000 56,000 DCC — Tolka Valley Pitch and Putt, Finglas 20,000 32,000 DCC — Williams Park Leisure Centre, Rathmines 4,550,000 DCC — Willie Pearse Park, Crumlin 100,000 160,000 DIT Aquatec Sub Aqua Club 0 30,000 DLRCC — Dundrum Family Recreation Centre 120,000 255,000 DLRCC — Loreto Park 0 56,800 DLRCC — Loughlinstown Leisure Centre 160,000 208,000 DLRCC — Loughlinstown Wood 0 40,000 DLRCC — Meadowbrook Park Pitches 40,000 56,800 DLRCC — Monkstown Pool & Fitness Centre 400,000 1,017,483 DLRCC — Newtown Park Tennis Courts 30,000 37,246 DLRCC — Shanganagh Cliffs Sportsfields 40,000 56,000 DLRCC — Snorkel Mania Project 4,000 4,500 Drumcondra Football Club 15,000 20,000 Dublin Institute of Technology 0 393,600 Dublin Postal Sports and Social Club 200,000 500,000 Du´ n Laoghaire Kenpo Karate Club 2,000 5,500 Du´ n Laoghaire Motor Yacht Club 0 25,000 Dun Laoghaire Playcentre 0 25,892 Dundrum Athletic Football Club 40,000 68,500 East Wall Water Sport Group Ltd 250,000 360,000 Erins Isle Pitch & Putt Club 9,000 11,000 Esker Celtic Football Club 120,000 196,000 Faculty of Sports and Exercise Medicine 33,000 100,000 Fifth Port Dollymount (Watersports Centre) 350,000 450,000 Fingal Co. Co. — Balbriggan Town Park 0 35,391 Fingal Co. Co. — Balheary Park 0 328,468 Fingal Co. Co. — Balheary Reservoir Park 0 52,500 Fingal Co. Co. — Balrothery Park 0 34,125 573 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 574

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Fingal Co. Co. — Broomfield Open Space 0 260,820 Fingal Co. Co. — Carrickhill Park, Portmarnock 0 67,928 Fingal Co. Co. — Grace O’Malley Park 0 4,200 Fingal Co. Co. — Hartstown Park 40,000 54,720 Fingal Co. Co. — Ladyswell Park Pitches, Blanchardstown 8,000 12,000 Fingal Co. Co. — Mountview Road Pitches, Blanchardstown 5,000 8,000 Fingal Co. Co. — Newbridge Demesne Pitches 60,000 237,552 Fingal Co. Co. — Porterstown Park Pitches 20,000 31,178 Fingal Co. Co. — Skerries Community Centre 130,000 260,820 Fingal Co. Co. — Skerries Town Park 0 13,776 Fingal Co. Co. — St Catherine’s Park, Rush 0 37,737 Fingal Co. Co. — Swords Manor 0 59,052 Fingal Co. Co. — Tolka Valley Linear Park Pitches 16,000 22,544 Fingal Co. Co. — Ward River Valley Park, Swords 0 21,952 Fingal Ravens GFC 0 126,000 Football Association of Ireland 100,000 126,561 Gaelscoil Naomh Pa´draig 0 69,000 Garda Sub Aqua Club 0 21,832 Garristown Gaelic Football Club 100,000 180,000 Go Skydive 0 20,515 Grange Woodbine Football Club 0 23,103 Greenfield Park Boys Club 25,000 42,500 Hamilton United FC 0 30,000 Herbert Park Bowling Club 75,000 95,664 Hercules Amateur Wrestling & Weightlifting Club 0 89,000 Home Farm Football Club 400,000 1,030,000 HWA — Rang Taekwondo Youth Group 0 7,900 Innisfail GAA Club 0 900,000 Institute of Technology Tallaght 0 257,600 Irish Cricket Union 50,000 70,000 Irish Gymnastics Limited, National Basketball Arena and IRFU 5,942,200 Irish Hockey Association & UCD Sports Department Irish Sub Aqua Club 6,000 51,268 Irish Underwater Council 35,000 38,000 Irish Youth Diving Association 0 28,762 Janz Gymnastics Club 6,000 23,500 Kilbarrack and District Community Association 0 664,370 Kilcross residents and development group 0 Kilnamanagh Family Recreation Centre Ltd. 200,000 250,000 Larkin Sports & Leisure Complex 140,000 200,000 Larkview Football Club 0 261,800 Leicester Celtic FC 70,000 138,000 Leinster Branch IRFU 250,000 Longmeadows Pitch and Putt Company Limited 0 971,974 Loreto Hockey Club 7,000 12,842 Loughlinstown / Ballybrack Kickboxing Club 0 2,000 Loughlinstown Boys Football 10,000 12,000 Loughlinstown Community Rooms Ltd 0 12,000 Lourdes Celtic Football Club 200,000 608,946 Lucan Harrier and Athletic Club 0 3,500 Lucan United Football Club 100,000 135,000 MAAN Group 100,000 358,000 Malahide Cricket Club, Application 1 20,000 30,000 Malahide Cricket Club, Application 2 0 173,000 Marlin Sub Aqua Club 15,000 32,000 Mellowes BDS Football Club 30,000 40,000 Merrion Cricket Club 70,000 110,432 575 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 576

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Morton Stadium Management Committee 245,000 384,300 Mountwood Fitzgerald Park Community Development Project 560,000 Na Fianna GAA Club 250,000 250,000 North County Cricket Club, Application 1 32,000 35,871 North County Cricket Club, Application 2 0 233,583 O’Connell School 0 270,000 Oscar Traynor Coaching Development Centre Limited 70,000 206,225 Our Ladies of Victories Youth Centre, Ballyfermot 0 15,000 Our Lady of Good Counsel GAA and Camogie Club 100,000 170,000 Palmerstown United Football Club 0 150,000 Pembroke Cricket Club 10,000 14,000 Pembroke Wanderers Hockey Club 150,000 210,570 Phoenix Cricket Club 17,000 24,550 Phoenix Swimming Club 0 3,600 Portmarnock Sub Aqua Club 0 21,799 Priorwoods Youth Project/Outreach Celtic FC 0 6,000 Railway Union Cricket Club 7,000 11,160 Rathcoole Boys Football Club 70,000 85,000 Rathcoole Community Council Ltd 0 44,492 Rathgar Tennis and Bowling Club 40,000 45,562 Round Towers GAA Club 0 347,000 Royal Dublin Society 5,588,450 Royal Irish Yacht Club 0 427,418 Rush Cricket Club 25,000 26,619 Rush Sailing Club 70,000 131,145 Sacred Heart Football Club 130,000 235,679 Sailing In Dublin Club 11,000 13,839 Santry Community Association 0 250,000 SDCC — Aylesbury Pitches, Tallaght 19,000 24,000 SDCC — Ballyowen Park 40,000 48,000 SDCC — Bancroft Park, Tallaght 0 28,000 SDCC — Beechfield Park, Walkinstown 15,000 21,000 SDCC — Chapel Hill Park, Lucan 30,000 42,000 SDCC — Clondalkin Park 0 36,000 SDCC — Clondalkin Park Athletic Track 0 360,000 SDCC — Corkagh Park 0 32,000 SDCC — Dodder Valley Linear Park, Application 1 0 126,000 SDCC — Dodder Valley Linear Park, Application 2 0 52,500 SDCC — Elkwood Park, Rathfarnham 0 42,000 SDCC — Esker Park, Lucan 0 84,000 SDCC — Firhouse Linear Park 0 63,000 SDCC — Greenhills Park All-Weather Pitch 80,000 160,000 SDCC — Greenhills Park, Walkinstown 0 21,000 SDCC — Griffeen Valley Park, Lucan 0 32,000 SDCC — Kilnamanagh Open Space 0 42,000 SDCC — Kiltalown Pitches, Tallaght 30,000 36,000 SDCC — Liffey Valley Park 0 32,000 SDCC — McGee Park Soccer Pitch 30,000 36,000 SDCC — Tymon Park soccer pitches 0 63,000 SDCC — Tymon Park Trim Trail 0 32,000 SDCC — Tymon Park Walking Routes 0 5,600 Sheriff Youth Club 0 50,000 Skerries Community Centre 0 263,307 Skerries Sailing Club 0 56,815 Slade Valley Golf Club 0 1,237,141 Spinal Injuries Association 60,000 65,000 St. Brigid’s GAA Club 350,000 426,700 577 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 578

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ St. Catherine’s Tae Kwon Do and Aerobics 4,000 5,600 St. Ciaran’s Community Centre, Hartstown 0 St. Dominic’s Sports Club, Ballyfermot 0 250,000 St. Helena’s Rivermount Boys 40,000 60,000 St. James Gaels/Robert Emmets GAA 0 4,628 St. John’s Indoor Bowling Club 1,000 2,000 St. Kevin’s Boys FC 50,000 St. Mark’s GAA Club 0 790,000 St. Mary’s Boys Football Club 0 140,000 St. Mary’s Church, Clonsilla 0 80,000 St. Matthew’s Boxing Club Ltd, Ballyfermot 2,000 2,000 St. Michael’s CBS/Lissadel United FC 7,000 10,500 St. Patrick’s GAA Club Palmerstown 150,000 200,000 St. Paul’s Youth Club, Artane 22,000 35,000 St. Peregrine’s GAA Club 50,000 200,000 St. Vincent’s & J’seph’s Karate Club, Fairview 2,000 2,375 St. Vincent’s Basketball Club 60,000 88,169 St. Vincent’s GAA Club 0 1,217,438 Straight Blast Wrestling Club 0 6,000 Suttonians RFC 130,000 154,000 Templeogue United/FAI Regional Development Centre 350,000 Terenure College Rugby Football Club 0 360,000 The Hills Cricket Club 25,000 26,600 Thomas Davis GAA Club 0 150,000 Tolka Rovers Sports Club 50,000 76,727 Trident Sub Aqua Club 10,000 14,700 Trinity Sports and Leisure Football Club 100,000 150,000 Trojan Gymnastic Club 0 20,000 Tru Blue Sub-Aqua Club 15,000 21,917 Tymon Athletic Sports Club 0 592,000 UCD AFC 1,197,600 UCD Boat Club 40,000 64,614 Viking Sub Aqua Club 14,000 21,700 Weston Hockey Club 100,000 149,144 Wexford Centre Project 75,000 169,845 Whitehall Rangers AFC 36,000 40,400 YMCA Cricket Club 38,000 59,000 York Road Table Tennis Club 0 2,000

Galway 2,702,000 16,037,685 Abbeyknockmoy Hurling Club 100,000 305,000 Annaghdown GAA 0 84,000 Athenry Golf Club 0 100,000 Ballinakill Field Committee 85,000 101,400 Ballincurry Leisure Centre Co. Ltd. 0 32,432 Ballygar & District Co. Ltd. 0 105,000 Ballymoe Development Centre Ltd. 130,000 195,000 Belclare Community Council 0 387,929 Caherlistrane GAA Club 0 63,000 Cappataggle Community Sportsfield 50,000 123,837 Carnmore GAA Club 20,000 20,000 Castleblakeney Community Development Association 0 26,499 Claddaghduff Hall Co. Ltd. 50,000 100,000 Clarinbridge Hurling Club 20,000 82,600 Clonberne Community Centre Co. Ltd. 130,000 196,000 Connemara Pony Breeders Society 0 58,703 Creggs Development Association 95,000 141,675 579 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 580

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Creggs RFC 0 148,000 Dynamo Blues AFC 0 170,000 Eyrecourt Sports & Social Development Co. Ltd. 0 117,000 Father Sammon Community Centre Ltd. 50,000 80,750 Fohenagh & Districts GAA Club 110,000 137,572 Galway & District Football League 186,000 Galway Bay Sailing Club Limited 100,000 142,576 Galway Corinthians RFC 0 250,000 Galway County Council — Cappagh Road, Knocknacarra 150,000 344,000 Galway Lawn Tennis Club 0 108,635 Galway Rowing Club 0 1,000,000 Galway Sub Aqua Club 20,000 22,000 Glen Celtic AFC 0 208,000 Gort Basketball Club 3,000 3,000 Gort GAA & Camogie Club 50,000 182,000 Headford GAA Club 100,000 157,000 Irish Underwater Council — Hyperbaric Chamber 173,000 Killannin Community Centre 50,000 100,000 Killimor GAA Club 50,000 109,610 Killimordaly GAA Club 0 150,000 Kinvara Bay Sailing Club 8,000 10,472 Liam Mellowes Hurling Club 0 306,250 Loughrea Tennis Club 8,000 13,393 Maree Basketball Club 0 89,912 Maree Sports Acrobatics/Gymnastics Club 0 6,000 Menlough GAA Club 0 Merbhiu Bailebha´n GAA Club 0 54,000 Milltown Community Council Ltd. 0 40,000 Monivea RFC 60,000 70,000 Mountbellew Community Sport & Leisure Co. Ltd. 280,000 350,000 Moylough Parish Sportsfield 40,000 49,000 Mullagh GAA Club 0 158,874 New Inn Community Council 0 280,000 Newcastle Combined Community Association 0 320,000 Oranmore Community Development Association 100,000 150,000 Oughterard Community Centre 100,000 163,500 Oughterard GAA Club 50,000 52,000 Rainbow Rinks Project 5,100,000 Regional Sports Centre, Galway 492,720 Renmore Gymnastics Club 10,000 10,000 S.N. Creachmhaoil Board of Management 0 6,000 Salthill Devon F.C. 500,000 Scoil Pa´draig Naofa Board of Management 50,000 135,000 Scout Hall, 2nd Galway Tuam Scouts SI 0 100,000 Shiven Rovers F.C. 80,000 241,330 St Joseph’s (The Bish) Rowing Club 20,000 24,924 St. Cuana’s N.S. Kilcoona 0 300,000 St. Michael’s GAA Club 120,000 150,000 St. Thomas’ GAA Club 40,000 60,000 Sylane Hurling Club 0 6,400 Tuam Athletic Club 3,000 3,136 Tuam Rugby Club 70,000 96,000 581 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 582

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Tuam Stadium Association 360,000 Tuam Stars GAA Club 250,000 350,000 Williamstown GAA Club 50,000 52,442 Woodford Youth Club 0 24,114

Kerry 2,976,000 16,225,336 Abbeydorney Community Centre Building Committee 40,000 100,000 Abbeyfeale Karate Club 0 Acard Limited 0 240,000 Anabla National School, Kilcummin 0 18,500 Ballyduff Co-op Development Society Limited 0 100,000 Ballyduff GAA Club 0 245,852 Ballyhar Dynamos AFC 100,000 298,207 Ballyheigue Castle Golf Club 0 80,000 Beale GAA Club 20,000 31,500 Beaufort Community Council 0 10,000 Brosna GAA Club 50,000 98,518 Caherciveen Community Resource Centre 50,000 204,000 Cahersiveen Rowing Club 100,000 145,000 Callinafercy Pier Rowing Club 0 23,042 Callinafercy Rowing Club 0 28,000 Cashen Vale Boxing Club 4,000 5,800 Castleisland Community Centre Development Committee 100,000 266,000 Castleisland Desmonds GAA Club 0 40,000 Castlemaine Community Services Group Ltd. 0 160,000 Churchill ABC 3,000 3,437 Commercial Rowing Club 0 128,000 Cordal Community Centre and Sports Hall 25,000 49,886 Craobh Cumann Emmett CLG 0 526,096 Cromane GAA Club 30,000 55,000 Cromane Rowing Club 0 12,300 Cumann Peile Abha Na Sca´il (Annascaul GAA) 80,000 114,852 Dooks Golf Club 0 300,000 Dr. Crokes GAA Club Killarney 0 250,000 Duagh Family Centre Sports Hall 0 50,000 Duagh GAA Club 15,000 42,000 Finuge GAA Club 100,000 234,000 Firies/Ballyhar GAA Club 0 104,096 Fitzgerald Stadium Killarney 175,000 Fossa Community Centre Ltd. 10,000 Glenbeigh Glencar GAA 120,000 140,000 Gleneagle Squash Club 0 44,800 Institute of Technology Tralee 0 495,000 John Mitchels Hurling & Football Club 35,000 45,273 Kenmare ABC 1,000 1,200 Kenmare Rowing and Boat Club 0 Kenmare Shamrocks Hurling & Football Club 200,000 315,299 Kerins O’Rahillys Hurling & Football Club 100,000 380,000 Kerry Aero Club Ltd. 0 250,000 Kerry District League 30,000 50,000 Kilcummin GAA Club 100,000 200,000 Killarney Athletic F.C. 70,000 94,500 Killarney Celtic AFC 0 177,726 583 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 584

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Killarney Golf & Fishing Club 0 275,690 Killarney Gymnastics Club 0 36,327 Killarney Town Council 2,000,000 Killorglin Sports and Leisure Club 50,000 70,862 Knocknagoshel GAA Club 50,000 123,667 Laune Rangers GAA 200,000 244,072 Lenamore Rovers F.C. 7,000 9,500 Lispole GAA Club 0 54,335 Listowel Celtic Soccer Club 50,000 120,800 Listry GAA Club 20,000 45,000 Mercy Secondary School, Tralee 0 250,000 Milltown/Castlemaine GAA Club 60,000 103,000 Moyvane GAA Club 90,000 335,064 Muckross Rowing Club Ltd. 20,000 60,000 Over the Water Rowing Club 30,000 40,800 Portmagee Rowing Club 0 24,000 Rathmore GAA Club 50,000 168,615 Rathmore Social Action Group 0 60,000 Rattoo Rovers F.C. 14,000 20,000 Renard GAA Club 0 100,000 Shanakill Family Resource Centre 50,000 64,280 Sneem Community Sports Hall Committee 0 60,000 Sneem Rowing Club 80,000 95,000 South Kerry Sports Centre 250,000 400,000 Spa GAA Club 150,000 200,000 St. Brendan’s Park F.C. 70,000 225,900 St. Mary’s Asdee GAA Club 30,000 50,000 St. Mary’s GAA Club, Caherciveen 0 224,000 St. Michael’s College/Listowel Basketball Club 25,000 33,800 St. Senan’s GAA Club 0 550,000 Tarbert GAA Club 0 165,000 Templenoe Rowing Club 0 16,000 Tralee Bay Sailing Club 50,000 189,000 Tralee Dynamos AFC 60,000 113,345 Tralee Regional Sports and Leisure Centre 3,000,000 Tralee RFC 40,000 80,535 Valentia Community Health & Welfare Association Ltd. 110,000 150,000 Valentia Regatta Committee 7,000 11,420 Valentia Young Islanders GAA Club 0 47,000 Waterville GAA Club 10,000 15,000 Waterville Rowing Club 0 13,440 Workmens Rowing Club 20,000 45,000 Youth Rowers Club 0 2,000

Kildare 2,857,000 13,511,779 9th Kildare CSI Kilcullen 0 10,000 Allenwood GAA Club 100,000 200,000 Athy Town AFC 25,000 32,000 Ballyteague GAA Club 100,000 160,000 Castledermot/Kileen Basketball Club 5,000 7,500 Celbridge Athletic Club 0 302,840 Celbridge Badminton Club 2,000 2,437 Celbridge Community Centre Ltd 0 330,000 585 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 586

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Clane United AFC 70,000 80,000 Clonmullion Football Club 140,000 160,000 Confey GAA Club 50,000 177,250 Craddockstown Golf Club 0 340,000 Crookstown-Millview Athletic Club 15,000 23,750 Cuan Mhuire Teo 50,000 73,671 Dunmurray Springs Golf Club PLC 0 300,000 Eire Og Corrachoill Hurling Club 250,000 350,000 Eire Og Corrachoill Hurling Club — Application 2 0 660,000 Golfing Union of Ireland — National Coaching Academy 1,108,754 Kilcock Canoe Polo Club 60,000 80,125 Kilcullen Canoe & Outdoor Pursuits Club 15,000 16,638 Kilcullen Community Centre Ltd. 30,000 40,000 Kildare County Council — Liffey Valley Regional Park 100,000 175,000 Kill GAA Club 200,000 685,832 Leixlip Amenities Centre 0 3,000,000 Leixlip Tennis Club 100,000 200,000 Lord Edward’s Own Pipe Band 0 45,000 Milltown GAA Club 40,000 50,000 Moorefield GAA Club 200,000 350,000 Naas Rugby Football Club 100,000 140,000 Naas Sub Aqua Club 25,000 31,010 Newbridge Athletic Club 0 20,000 Newbridge Town FC/Kildare County FC 350,000 Newbridge Volleyball Club 0 3,000 Nurney GAA Club 80,000 160,000 Racing Academy & Centre of Education 0 170,250 Rathcoffey GAA Club 0 150,000 Robertstown GAA Club 200,000 322,215 Round Towers GAA Club 400,000 500,000 St. Brigid’s CYMS 0 30,000 St. Conleth’s Vocational School, Newbridge 0 100,000 St. Laurence’s GAA Club 250,000 615,608 St. Mary’s GAA Club, Leixlip 0 532,619 St. Michael’s Boxing Club 250,000 314,400 Woodlands Golf Club 0 1,111,880

Kilkenny 850,000 2,864,495 Black and Whites GAA Club 30,000 40,000 Carrigeen GAA Community Group 70,000 200,000 Castlecomer Golf Club 0 383,883 Castlecomer Lakes Company Limited 0 35,000 Cloneen GAA Club 45,000 60,000 Coon Hall Development Fund 20,000 35,000 Dicksboro GAA Club 50,000 60,000 Fenians GAA Club 0 122,318 Freshford Community Club 10,000 20,000 Graignamanagh GAA Club 55,000 69,000 Highview Athletic FC 30,000 40,000 Johnswell Development Committee 20,000 50,000 Kells Resource Centre Limited 0 350,000 Kilkenny Flying & Gliding Club 0 53,000 Kilkenny Sub Aqua Club 25,000 30,000 587 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 588

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Kilmacow Hall Committee 130,000 170,000 Muckalee Community Centre 35,000 45,000 Mullinavat Parish Finance Committee 20,000 30,000 Paulstown Development Association 40,000 44,500 Piltown Community Centre 0 150,000 Piltown GAA Club 20,000 24,000 Scanlon Park 90,000 120,417 St. Lachtain’s GAA Club 75,000 109,872 St. Patrick’s GAA Club Ballyragget 85,000 97,000 Thomastown United Athletic Football Club 0 525,505

Laois 786,000 1,811,493 Abbeyleix Golf Club 0 35,000 Ballylinan GFC Community Sports Centre 0 200,000 Ballyroan GAA Club 7,000 8,000 Ballyroan Juvenile GAA Club 10,000 13,000 Clonaslee Billiard Club 3,000 3,117 Clonenagh Parish Hall 0 20,000 Clonin Sports Field Committee 35,000 48,000 Graiguecullen GAA 190,000 290,560 Hawthorn Community Development Association 90,000 113,125 Heywood Sports Facilities Committee 55,000 66,300 Kilcotton GAA Club 30,000 42,834 Killeen Community Hall Development Association 30,000 37,806 Lions FC 35,000 40,000 Mountmellick Macra na Feirme Sports Club 24,000 35,000 Mountrath Golf Club 0 350,000 O’Dempsey’s GAA Football Club 80,000 100,000 Portarlington Community Centre 25,000 30,145 Portlaoise Boxing Club 2,000 2,263 Portlaoise GAA Club 50,000 60,000 Rathdowney GAA Club 28,000 103,000 St. Bernadette Community Hall, Errill 0 18,500 St. Colmcille’s NS & Errill GAA CLub 5,000 6,843 St. Mary’s Community Hall, Portlaoise 70,000 95,000 The Heath GAA Club 17,000 27,000 Vicarstown Community Hall 0 66,000

Leitrim 479,000 4,636,640 Allen Gaels GAA Club 100,000 270,000 Annaduff GAA Club 0 395,768 Aughavas GAA Club 40,000 65,000 Aughnasheelin Park Committee 40,000 77,000 Ballinamore Basketball Club 4,000 5,221 Bee Park Resource Centre Ltd 0 75,000 Carrigallen GAA Club 0 93,600 Childhood Days Ltd 0 2,563 Cloone GAA Club 0 300,000 Cluanin Vol Housing & Tenants Ass. 0 22,000 Drumkeeran Handball Sports & Leisure 0 160,000 Drumshanbo Community Development Co Ltd 0 160,000 Eslin GAA Club 20,000 65,000 Fenagh Handball Club 30,000 86,400 589 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 590

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Gortletteragh GAA Club 0 80,000 Keshcarrigan Development Association Ltd 0 360,000 Killargue Development Association 0 7,125 Kiltoghert Development Group 0 13,000 Kiltubrid GAA Club 70,000 120,597 Kinlough Development Co. Ltd. 0 90,000 Leitrim County Council — Attfinlay, Carrick on Shannon 0 300,000 Leitrim Co. GAA Board — Pa´irc Mac Diarmada 1,200,000 Leitrim Gaels Community Field Development Ltd 80,000 236,018 Manorhamilton Rangers AFC 15,000 29,960 Manorhamilton Sub Aqua Club 0 12,200 Sean O’Heslin’s GAA Club 80,000 146,188 St. Hugh’s Park/Ballinaglera GAA Club 0 144,000 St. Mary’s GAA Club, Carrick-On-Shannon 0 120,000

Limerick 1,925,000 5,873,622 AAI Limerick County Board 0 76,059 Ardagh Hall Committee 0 10,500 Askeaton AFC 100,000 246,000 Askeaton Swimming Club 0 350,000 Ballingarry AFC 0 104,000 Ballingarry GAA Club 35,000 45,000 Broadford United AFC 125,000 134,000 Cappamore Development Association 0 437,936 Croagh-Kilfinny Development Organisation 140,000 184,000 Croom United Soccer Club 80,000 178,025 Cumann Athain CLG (Ahane GAA Club) 0 340,000 Desmond Ability Resource Complex Ltd 200,000 270,000 Dromcollogher Broadford GAA Club 140,000 222,023 Dromore Angling Club 0 21,800 Fairview Rangers AFC 125,000 150,000 Feohanagh-Castlemahon GAA Club 25,000 31,490 Galbally Coursing Club 0 60,000 Garryowen Football Club 0 172,000 Garryowen Sports Group 0 70,000 Geraldines AFC 0 50,000 Glenroe GAA Club 75,000 90,000 Glin Rovers AFC 20,000 25,000 Herbertstown GAA Club 65,000 81,120 Hill Celtic AFC 100,000 500,000 Kilcornan Soccer Club 14,000 16,800 Killeaney AFC 55,000 60,643 Kilmallock United AFC 85,000 100,000 Knockainey Sportsfield Co-Op Society Ltd 0 65,245 Limerick Boat Club 15,000 18,200 Limerick Desmond League 65,000 145,000 Limerick District League 65,000 200,000 Limerick Marine Search & Rescue Service 0 45,000 Monagea GAA Club 30,000 51,177 Mungret Regional Football Club 40,000 49,000 Murroe AFC 25,000 26,000 Newcastle West Golf Club 0 280,000 Old Christians GAA Club 14,000 20,000 591 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 592

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Old Cresent Rugby Football Club 0 308,421 Our Lady of Lourdes Community Services Group 50,000 286,468 Rathkeale Boxing Club 0 3,500 South Liberties GAA Club 170,000 227,840 Southill Weight Powerlifting Club 4,000 5,375 St. Kieran’s GAA Club 40,000 50,000 St. Mary’s Racing Pigeon Club 0 40,000 Star Rovers Soccer Club 23,000 26,000

Longford 545,000 4,167,602 Abbeylara GAA Club 0 120,000 Abbeyshrule Flying Club 0 45,000 Ballymahon AFC 0 35,000 Ballymahon GAA Club 70,000 110,000 Ballymore GAA Club 0 200,000 Carrickedmond GAA Club 0 46,285 Cashel GAA Club 80,000 128,500 Clonguish GAA Club 25,000 40,000 Colmcille GAA Club 0 25,000 County Longford Golf Club 0 316,916 County Longford VEC 0 400,000 Dromard GAA Club 0 70,975 Edgeworthstown Development Association 0 13,000 Fr. Manning Gaels GAA Club 70,000 82,551 Irish Wheelchair Association 0 360,000 Killoe Young Emmets GAA Club 0 128,000 Longford County Board of the GAA 675,000 Longford Lawn Tennis Club 0 96,531 Longford Rugby Football Club 40,000 55,000 Longford Town Council — The Mall All-Weather Pitch 100,000 175,257 Lough Ree Sub Aqua Club 45,000 62,250 Midland Cubhunter Horse Shows 0 10,000 Sean Connolly’s GAA Club 0 151,000 St Columba’s Mullinalaghta GAA Club 100,000 150,874 St. Brigid’s Football Club 0 58,000 St. Joseph’s Community Centre 15,000 32,577 St. Mary’s GAA Club and Community Development 0 560,386 Templemichael-Ballymacormack Shooting and conservation 0 14,500 Torpedo Basketball Club 0 5,000

Louth 1,294,000 5,764,395 Ardee Celtic Football Club 70,000 83,407 Blackrock Athletic Club 1,000 1,990 Boyne RFC Development Project 150,000 350,000 Carlingford Community Development Ltd 50,000 64,507 Coiste Chontae Lu´ (Louth County GAA Board) 174,000 Collon Pitch and Putt Club 0 2,000 Cooley Kickhams GFC 100,000 172,000 Cooley Kickhams Ladies Development Squad 0 3,000 Cretegaff Marina Club 0 90,000 Cross Border Centre for Community Development 0 1,105,000 Dowdallshill GF & AC 140,000 250,000 Dundalk & Carlingford Sailing Club 70,000 115,000 593 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 594

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Dundalk District Minor League 0 229,541 Dundalk Sub Aqua Search and Recovery 4,000 5,250 Dundalk Town Council — Muirhevnamor Park 664,495 Dundalk Young Irelands GFC 80,000 120,264 Dundealgan Athletic Club 0 Glenmore Athletics Club 0 325,000 Glenmuir United Football Club 100,000 150,431 Golden Dragon Wado-Kai Karate Club 1,000 1,500 John Mitchels GFC 90,000 116,900 Kilkerley Bowling Club 0 4,500 Kilkerley Emmets GFC 20,000 30,000 Lannleire & District Recreation Centre 8,000 9,470 Mattock Rangers GFC 100,000 139,000 Muirhevnamor Football Club 0 52,800 Naomh Malachi GFC 50,000 80,000 Omeath Sports Club 0 394,000 O’Raghallaighs GFC Sports and Social Centre 60,000 80,000 Quay Celtic Club 30,000 50,000 St. Fechin’s GAA Club, Drogheda 0 80,000 St. Joseph’s GFC, Commons 0 340,900 St. Mary’s GFC Ardee 40,000 59,000 St. Nicholas’ GFC, Rathmullen 30,000 60,000 St. Patrick’s GFC 0 204,040 St. Paul’s Table Tennis Club, Drogheda 0 1,400 Walshestown Juvenile Football Club 100,000 155,000

Mayo 1,594,000 7,083,189 Achill Island Golf Club 0 41,547 Balla GAA Club 90,000 120,000 Ballina Golf Club 0 400,000 Ballinrobe Community School 0 265,125 Ballinrobe Rugby Football Club 45,000 93,415 Ballinrobe Town Soccer Club 60,000 80,000 Ballycastle Community Hall Ltd 0 120,000 Ballycastle GAA Club 0 42,365 Ballycroy Commnity Council Ltd. 0 495,000 Ballycroy Field Management Co. Ltd. 0 86,295 Ballyglass Association Football and Social Club 50,000 67,310 Ballyheane Football Club 45,000 65,300 Ballyvary-Keelogues Development Company 90,000 135,000 Bangor Hibs FC Ltd 25,000 50,744 Barnacarroll Cuiltibo Enterprises Ltd. 0 19,000 Belcarra Sports Centre 0 400,000 Breaffy GAA Club 100,000 200,000 Carracastle Community Council 35,000 50,790 Castlebar Celtic Football Club 0 286,023 Castlebar Mitchels GAA Club 0 265,000 Castlebar Rugby Football Club 0 58,000 Charlestown Bellaghy & District Sports Complex 0 107,390 Claremorris AFC 55,000 74,497 Conn Rangers AFC Ltd 0 61,600 Eastern Gaels GAA Club 45,000 59,200 Foxford Sports and Leisure Centre 200,000 250,000 595 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 596

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Glenans Irish Sailing Association 0 125,311 Glencorrib Community Sportsfield Trustees/ Glencorrib and Border 0 80,000 Ramblers GAA Club Graine Uaile Sub Aqua Club 0 24,490 Kilmaine Boxing Club 4,000 5,000 Kiltane GAA Community Complex 0 105,000 Kiltimagh/Knock United Soccer Club Ltd 0 205,064 Knockmore GAA Club 170,000 212,962 Knockmore/Rathduff Economic & Social Development Company Ltd. 0 306,550 Lacken Development Association Ltd 0 120,000 Lacken Sports and Recreation Association Ltd 30,000 69,500 Lahardane McHales GAA Club 80,000 146,410 Manulla Sporting Club 0 273,889 Mayo Gaels GAA Club 25,000 30,000 Mulranny Western Holdings Ltd 0 40,000 Newport Handball Club 0 30,000 Snugboro United Football Club Ltd 0 158,000 St. Louis’ Community School Kiltimagh 0 500,000 St. Patrick’s GAA Club Westport 90,000 125,500 Straide and Foxford United AFC 100,000 143,688 Swinford Amenities Development Company Ltd 200,000 250,000 Swinford Handball Club 10,000 14,000 Swinford Soccer Club 40,000 76,000 Vally Rovers Football Club 0 142,624 Western Lakes Cycling Club 5,000 5,600

Meath 1,160,000 11,504,468 Alphadive Sub-Aqua Club 5,000 7,694 Athboy Social Needs & Recreational Co Ltd 300,000 400,000 Ballinabrackery GAA Club 0 26,282 Bhulf To´ n GAA Club 50,000 63,585 Blackhall Gaels GAA Club 130,000 202,000 Carnaross GAA Club 40,000 60,000 Castletown GAA Club 0 105,000 Clann na nGael Athboy GAA Club 0 80,000 Donaghmore-Ashbourne GAA Club 150,000 300,000 Dunboyne Ladies GAA 40,000 50,000 Dunboyne Tennis Club 30,000 35,350 Dunderry Football and Hurling Club 0 560,000 Irish Aquatic Sports Centre 0 80,000 Kells Tennis Club 20,000 29,357 Kilbride GAA Club 20,000 32,000 Kilmainhamwood GAA Club 0 67,533 Meath G.A.A. County Board 5,000,000 Moynalty Football Club 0 237,462 Moynalvey GAA Club 0 36,000 Navan Road Club 5,000 6,000 Newtown United Football Club 0 157,955 Oldcastle GAA Club 0 150,000 Ratoath Community Centre Development Group 0 700,000 Ratoath GAA Club 100,000 300,000 Seneschalstown Community Sports Centre 150,000 265,000 St. Colmcille’s GAA Club 100,000 135,000 597 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 598

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ St. Mary’s GAA Club (East Meath) 0 98,000 St. Michael’s GAA Club Carlanstown 15,000 20,000 Stackallen National School Field Committee 0 66,000 Stamullen Cycling Club 5,000 6,250 Trim Area Recreation and Social Needs Company Limited 2,200,000 Wilkinstown Community Centre 0 28,000

Monaghan 996,000 3,770,063 Aughnamullen Sarsfields GAA Club 90,000 150,000 Ballybay Development Association Ltd 0 148,313 Ballybay Pearse Brothers GAA Club 130,000 150,000 Ballybay Recreation Committee 100,000 115,000 Castleblayney Arts and Community Development Co. 0 262,469 Clara Community Playground Project 25,000 33,000 Clones Town Association Football Club 0 292,000 Clontibret O’Neills GAA Club 55,000 75,000 Corduff Gaels Gaelic Football Club 70,000 120,000 Cremartin GFC 60,000 112,800 Currin GFC 50,000 65,000 Donagh Parish Finance & Maintenance Committee 0 25,000 Doohamlet Sports 15,000 20,053 Drumhowan Geraldines GFC 80,000 120,000 Emyvale Cycling Club 1,000 1,416 Gaeil Triucha CLG 70,000 100,000 Glaslough Youth Club 0 2,500 Inniskeen Pitch & Putt Club 0 122,532 Killeevan Development Association 50,000 75,000 Killeevan Gymnastics Club Ltd 20,000 35,000 Monaghan Collegiate School 0 Λ Monaghan GAA Training & Development Centre 1,300,000 Oram GFC 0 175,000 Phoenix Regional Sports & Leisure Centre 50,000 79,980 Sean McDermott’s GFC 70,000 100,000 St. Mary’s Park Development Committee 60,000 90,000

Offaly 857,000 5,187,263 1st, 10th, 11th Offaly Scout Troops 0 17,380 Ballinamere GAA Club 0 50,000 Banagher Shannon Bank Park Development Group 40,000 51,310 Birr and District Auto Club Ltd 15,000 19,845 Birr Development Company Limited 300,000 343,000 Birr Rugby Football Club 45,000 51,419 Birr Town Football Club 0 100,000 Cloghan Hall Committee 0 16,100 Coolderry GAA Club 45,000 54,000 Crinkill GAA Club 30,000 41,800 Drumcullen GAA Club 20,000 60,000 Edenderry GAA Club 50,000 60,000 Ferbane GAA Club 15,000 35,000 Gallen United Soccer Club 0 70,000 Irish Parachute Club Limited 0 352,000 Kilclonfert GAA Club 35,000 45,000 Kinnitty GAA Club 0 175,000 Kinnitty National School 0 16,772 Lusmagh GAA Club 0 189,644 599 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 600

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Offaly GAA County Board 1,500,000 Rhode GAA Club 0 232,000 St. Brendan’s Sportsplex Birr 15,000 23,000 St. Brigid’s GAA Club — North Offaly Training Centre 80,000 100,000 St. Rynagh’s Football Club 20,000 22,007 Tubber GAA Club 15,000 16,870 Tullamore AFC 125,000 142,816 Tullamore Canoe Club 7,000 7,300 Tullamore GAA Club 0 345,000 Tullamore Town Council/Swimming Pool Committee/Tullamore Harriers 1,050,000

Roscommon 1,027,000 4,857,256 Ballaghadereen Community Sports Park Ltd. 0 140,392 Ballinagare FC 40,000 51,554 Boyle Celtic Football Centre 75,000 100,000 Boyle GAA Club 100,000 150,000 Castlerea Brass and Reed Band 0 50,000 Castlerea Celtic Football Club 80,000 110,000 Church View Residents Association, Boyle 18,000 23,560 Dysart Community Sports Centre 80,000 168,000 Eire Og GAA Club 40,000 116,598 Elphin Social Centre 0 225,000 Frenchpark Boxing Club 4,000 5,180 Fuerty GAA Club 0 231,000 Hodson Bay Celtic F.C. 0 148,930 Irish Wheelchair Association 10,000 26,570 Keadue Development Company 0 100,000 Kilbride Community Centre Company Ltd 0 15,000 Kilbride GAA & Social Clubs 0 Kilglass Gaels and Community Group 0 195,000 Kilmore GAA Club 85,000 120,000 Kilteevan Community Development Group 0 475,000 Lisacul Handball Club 5,000 8,000 Loughglynn Community Centre Ltd 50,000 120,000 Pa´draig Pearse’s GAA Club 80,000 143,000 Roscommon Gaels GAA Club 0 122,500 Roscommon Golf Club 0 170,450 St. Barry’s Gaelic Football Club 0 148,000 St. Brigid’s GAA Sports and Social Club 0 217,000 St. Faithleach’s GAA Sport & Leisure Club 80,000 336,800 St. Kevin’s GAA Club 0 205,377 St. Ronan’s GAA Club 20,000 32,633 Strokestown Co-operative Community Centre Ltd 20,000 80,000 Strokestown GAA Club 0 390,400 Strokestown United Football Club 200,000 336,348 Taughmaconnell Sports Coalition 10,000 38,964 Tisara Community Sports Park 30,000 56,000

Sligo 1,253,000 6,149,693 Ballisodare Community Council 0 483,000 Cloonacool Community Park Ltd 30,000 57,008 Cola´iste Iascaig & West Sligo Sport and Recreation Centre 0 392,000 Coolaney Development Company Limited 0 120,000 County Sligo Golf Club 0 250,000 County Sligo Tennis Club Ltd 30,000 34,000 601 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 602

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Cully Ball Ally Committee 0 50,000 Curry GAA Club and Community Park 0 250,000 Drumcliffe Rosses Point GAA Club 0 10,000 Easkey Community Council Ltd 0 100,000 Fr Kevin Brehony Memorial Park Committee 40,000 90,000 Geevagh Community Resource Group 200,000 391,000 Irish Surfing Association 10,000 12,000 Mercy College Sligo/Sligo All Stars 500,000 701,616 Mullaghmore Sailing Club Centre 12,000 18,548 Mullinabreena-Coolaney GAA Club 13,000 17,000 North-West Parents and Friends Association for Persons with Intellectual 0 Disability Oxfield Playing Grounds 18,000 25,000 Riverstown Community Park Development Committee 0 250,000 Skreen & Dromard Community Council 180,000 270,000 Sligo Borough Council — Garravogue Villas 170,000 374,044 Sligo Co. GAA Board/Markievicz Park Committee Sligo County Board and Coolera-Strandhill GAA 500,000 Sligo Rovers Development Association 218,280 Sligo Rugby Football Club 0 1,000,000 Sligo Sub Aqua Club 0 18,600 Sligo-Leitrim District Soccer League 0 395,200 St. John’s Community Development Association 0 40,000 Tubbercurry GAA Club 50,000 82,397

Tipperary 2,048,000 9,008,006 Ballinahinch GAA Club 75,000 95,000 Ballinderry Sportsfield 0 95,085 Ballingarry GAA Club 0 80,000 Ballyporeen — Skeheenarinky GAA Club 75,000 100,000 Blackcastle United FC 75,000 86,240 Borrisokane District Development Association Limited 0 2,000,685 Borrisokane GAA Club 0 78,484 Borrisoleigh Town Park Ltd 90,000 140,000 Cappawhite Community Council Ltd. 100,000 167,500 Carrick on Suir Community Resource Centre 0 2,500 Carrick on Suir Golf Club 0 120,000 Carrick United AFC Ltd 0 22,148 Carrig/Riverstown GAA Club 30,000 46,324 Cashel Town FC 30,000 70,000 Clonmel Athletic Club 50,000 72,800 Clonmel Boxing Club 5,000 6,000 Clonmel Celtic FC Ltd 150,000 250,879 Clonmel Rugby Club 80,000 150,000 Clonmore NS 0 29,775 Duneske Leisure Limited 300,000 1,023,105 Eire Og Annacarty GAA Club 50,000 73,339 Fethard Community Sports Field Ltd 30,000 46,000 Fr. Sheehy GAA Club 60,000 85,000 Glengoole Community Development Association 0 101,557 Gortnahoe / Glengoole GAA Club 25,000 37,200 Horse & Jockey Handball Club 0 20,000 JK Brackens GAA Club 13,000 19,500 Kilbarron Hall Committee 0 40,000 Kilcash Ballypatrick Killurney Sportsfield 0 20,000 603 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 604

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Kilfeacle & District Rugby FC 45,000 54,000 Knockavilla Donaskeigh Kickhams GAA Club 0 100,000 Knockshegowan GAA Club 0 52,500 Lough Derg Yacht Club 0 80,000 Moycarkey Borris GAA Club 0 378,275 Moyglass Sport & Leisure Centre Ltd 0 70,000 Mullinahone GAA Club 150,000 330,823 Nenagh Lawn Tennis Club 35,000 45,000 Newcastle GAA Club 0 125,500 O’Connor’s Field Development Committee, Cashel 0 65,000 Rearcross FC 0 10,505 Rock Rovers FC 0 250,000 Roscrea Golf Club 0 49,400 Rosegreen Development Association/Rosegreen Rangers FC 0 4,200 Sean Kelly Sports Centre 384,000 Sean Treacy’s GAA Club 50,000 210,000 South Tipperary GAA Board 0 150,000 St. Joseph’s College/Newport Handball Club 50,000 63,371 St. Michael’s AFC 140,000 200,000 St. Molleran’s GAA Club 80,000 119,856 Templederry Kenyons GAA Club 180,000 269,955 Templemore Athletic Club 80,000 134,000 Thurles Community Sports Campus Project 580,000 Tipperary Town Athletic Club 0 52,500 Two Mile Borris St. Kevins F.C. 0 150,000

Waterford 1,580,000 7,537,974 Affane Cappoquin GAA Club 40,000 78,600 Ballinameena Community Centre 20,000 30,103 Ballyduff Lower GAA Club 50,000 278,665 Ballygunner GAA Club 0 242,197 Blackwater Community School/Lismore GAA 70,000 99,000 Boatstrand Dunabrattin Fishermens Community 50,000 174,000 Bohemians Football Club 75,000 125,000 Brideview United AFC Limited 40,000 58,515 Butler Community Centre Ltd 50,000 133,317 Cappoquin Community Development Company Ltd 200,000 569,701 Cappoquin Playground Committee 0 35,000 Cappoquin Rowing Club 20,000 34,938 Cappoquin Salmon & Trout Anglers Association 15,000 19,166 Children’s Group Link Waterford 45,000 60,000 Cunnigar Pitch and Putt Club 5,000 6,960 De La Salle Hurling and Football Club 175,000 507,850 Dungarvan Boxing Club 10,000 10,166 Dungarvan Harbour Sailing Club 0 17,055 Dungarvan Hurling & Football Club 90,000 147,151 Dunhill Squash Club 10,000 11,159 Ferrybank AFC 80,000 250,000 Fourth Waterford Unit Scouting Ireland 0 13,000 Hibernian Football Centre 70,000 90,000 Joseph & Therese White-Finisk Valley 0 481,600 Kilgobnet Sports Club 0 145,000 Rathgormack GAA Club 10,000 22,320 Seaview Celtic FC 55,000 70,268 Sliabh gCua/St. Mary’s GAA Club 0 215,000 605 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 606

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Southend United Football Club 45,000 54,323 St. Brigid’s Hall, Kilrossanty 50,000 100,000 St. Paul’s Boxing Club 5,000 6,400 Stradbally AFC Club 20,000 29,900 Stradbally GAA Club 0 90,740 Tallow Hurling & Football Club 0 57,280 Tourin GAA Club 80,000 96,600 Tramore Amateur Boxing Club 0 Tramore GAA Club 60,000 127,000 Waterford City Council — Regional Sports Centre 2,600,000 Waterford Harbour Sailing Club 0 70,000 Waterford Local Economic Development Co Ltd 140,000 180,000 Waterford Motorboat & Yacht Club 0 200,000

Westmeath 1,083,000 3,245,980 Athlone GAA Club 150,000 200,000 Athlone Tennis Club 10,000 20,000 Athlone Town Stadium Ltd. 800,000 Ballinahown Community Sports Centre 50,000 82,453 Ballinlough Castle Golf Club Ltd 0 72,000 Boher Hall Community Development Association Ltd 0 40,000 Bunbrosna GAA & Community Services 150,000 520,500 Castlepollard Community Centre 30,000 60,000 Clonkill Hurling Club 0 770,000 Coralstown/ Kinnegad GAA Club 65,000 75,000 Delvin Handball Club 80,000 210,000 Lough Ree Yacht Club 40,000 57,410 Loughnavalley Gaelic Football Club 80,000 107,208 Milltown Community Centre Association & Milltown GAA 0 200,000 Moate All-Whites GAA Club 20,000 Mullingar Athletic Football Club 80,000 110,430 Mullingar Canoe Club 6,000 7,700 Mullingar Karate Kyokushinskai Club 0 Mullingar Shamrocks GAA Club 0 85,000 Mullingar Sub Aqua Club 0 10,500 Mullingar Tennis & Badminton Club 7,000 10,000 Mullingar Town AFC 90,000 112,442 Multyfarnham Park Development 0 23,366 Rosemount Community Centre 30,000 39,938 Shandonagh GAA Club 100,000 183,818 St. Francis FC 75,000 96,000 St. Loman’s Foroige 0 St. Paul’s GFC 0 30,000 Temple Villa AFC 20,000 22,215 Westmeath Show Society Ltd 0 100,000

Wexford 1,887,000 4,590,762 Ajax Athletic AFC 0 80,000 Ballaghkeen Community Project Ltd 0 34,090 Bree Community Development Group 17,000 20,296 Bunclody AFC 20,000 33,118 Castlebridge Reading Rooms 0 15,750 Castletown Liam Mellows GAA Club 0 70,000 Cloughbawn AFC/Community Group 0 150,000 Courtown Hibernian AFC 120,000 170,000 607 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 608

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Crossabeg-Ballymurn Hurling & Football Club 45,000 50,000 Curracloe United AFC 70,000 120,406 Edermine Ferry Rowing Club 8,000 14,998 Enniscorthy Rugby Football Club 225,000 336,000 Faythe Harriers GAA Club 25,000 36,800 Ferns St. Aidan’s GAA Club 100,000 272,918 Ferns United AFC 85,000 102,900 Fethard/St. Mogue’s GAA Club 80,000 140,000 Glynn Barntown GAA Club 40,000 50,000 Gorey Boxing Club 0 108,130 Gorey Rangers AFC 150,000 300,000 Hook Sub Aqua Club 0 25,000 Horeswood GAA Club 100,000 275,000 Killenagh Wanderers AFC 80,000 161,000 Kilrush Askamore GAA Club 45,000 55,000 Monageer Boolavogue GAA 120,000 344,254 Moyne Rangers AFC 65,000 96,898 New Ross Celtic AFC 25,000 30,800 New Ross Coarse Angling Ltd 0 70,160 New Ross District Pipe Band 0 10,000 North End United AFC 0 144,437 Rapperees/Starlights GAA Club 100,000 200,000 Rosslare Rangers AFC 100,000 227,600 Sarsfields GAA Club 40,000 50,823 Shamrocks Hurling & Football Club 40,000 77,303 Shielbaggan Outdoor Educational Centre 0 143,148 St. John’s Volunteers Community Centre 0 100,000 St. Kearn’s Rowing Club 10,000 15,550 St. Michael’s Pipe Band 0 21,335 St. Mogue’s Rural Community Centre Ltd 7,000 Tintern Community and Sports Complex Commission 150,000 367,115 Wexford Christian Brothers Secondary School 0 39,200 Wexford Sub Aqua Club Ltd 20,000 30,733

Wicklow 1,700,000 5,307,247 Arklow Boxing Club 15,000 18,000 Arklow Geraldines/Ballymoney GAA Club 65,000 111,161 Arklow Rock Parnell GAA Club 0 127,664 Arklow Town FC 346,700 Ashford Rovers Soccer Club 10,000 10,695 Avondale GAA Club 40,000 65,000 Avonmore Football Club 50,000 120,000 Ballinacor Community Project 0 117,000 Ballywaltrim Community Centre Limited 200,000 300,000 Baltinglass Golf Club 0 103,285 Blessington GAA Club 500,000 750,000 Bray Wanderers Football Club 493,735 Bullfrog Racing Club, Bray 5,000 9,000 Carnew Emmets GAA Club 100,000 150,000 Coillte Teoranta Cycling Trail, Roundwood 0 91,105 Dunlavin GAA Club 0 91,797 Eire Og GAA Club Greystones 200,000 350,000 Greystones Community Centre Project 0 Greystones Rugby Football Club 30,000 60,000 Greystones United Football Club 0 500,000 609 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 610

County Applicant Grant Sought

\\ Hollywood Community Development Association 200,000 384,986 Lakers Social & Recreation Club 0 200,000 Newcastle GAA Club 0 25,750 Newcastle Judo Club 0 2,000 Newtown GAA Club 60,000 120,000 Rathdrum Rugby Football Club 0 163,212 RC Girl Guides of Ireland Carnew Branch 0 3,000 Shillelagh GAA Club 0 22,757 St. Brendan’s College, Bray 0 300,000 Tiglin Adventure Sports Training Trust Ltd 75,000 85,400 Tinahely GAA Club 150,000 175,000 Wicklow County Camogie Board 0 10,000 Woodlands Development Commitee 0

the Western Health Board with a request that she 273. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Arts, examine the matter raised and reply directly to Sport and Tourism if a grant of \20,000 was the Deputy as a matter of urgency. approved for Wicklow town soccer club; if this information was communicated to the club; if so, 275. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for when; the current status of the grant; and if he Health and Children the reason a person (details will make a statement on the matter. [19463/04] supplied) in Dublin 5 is still waiting for clearance to obtain their stair lift; and if the occupational Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. therapist will urgently resolve this matter. O’Donoghue): A grant of \20,000 was provision- [19019/04] ally allocated to the club in question under the 2002 sports capital programme towards the Minister of State at the Department of Health upgrading of dressing rooms. The club was for- and Children (Mr. Callely): As the Deputy will mally informed of the provisional grant offer by be aware, the provision of health services in the way of a letter issued by my Department on 7 Dublin 5 area is, in the first instance, the May 2002. The grant offer was subject to the responsibility of the Northern Area Health Board terms and conditions of the programme and all acting under the aegis of the Eastern Regional documentation was requested to have been sub- Health Authority. My Department has, therefore, mitted to my Department and the project com- asked the chief executive of the authority to pleted by 27 June 2003. investigate the matter raised by the Deputy and As the club did not submit any of the required reply directly to him as a matter of urgency. documentation, my Department issued a second 276. Mr. S. Ryan asked the asked the Minister letter to it in May 2004 outlining again the docu- for Health and Children if he will report on the mentation required. To date, the club has not delay in orthodontic treatment for a person responded to this letter. Unless the club responds (details supplied) in County Dublin; and when comprehensively to the correspondence as a mat- treatment will commence. [19020/04] ter of priority, the Department will have to con- sider whether the grant should be withdrawn. Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): Responsibility for the provision of orthodontic Health Board Services. treatment to eligible persons in County Dublin 274. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for rests with the Eastern Regional Health Auth- Health and Children the reason a speech assess- ority. My Department has asked the regional ment has not been carried out on a person chief executive to investigate the matter raised by (details supplied) in County Galway in order to the Deputy and to reply to him directly. determine their suitability to attend national school in September 2004; and if he will make a Hospital Services. statement on the matter. [19347/04] 277. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for Health and Children the reason a person (details Minister of State at the Department of Health supplied) was kept on a trolley for six days in the and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The provision Mater Hospital and then was forced to sit on a of health services, including speech and language chair. [19021/04] therapy, for people with a physical and/or sensory disability is a matter for the Eastern Regional Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): Health Authority and the health boards in the Responsibility for the provision of health services first instance. Accordingly, the Deputy’s question to persons living in counties Dublin, Kildare and has been referred to the chief executive officer of Wicklow rests with the Eastern Regional Health 611 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 612

[Mr. Martin.] Decentralisation Programme. Authority. My Department has, therefore, asked 281. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for the regional chief executive of the authority to Health and Children the risk analysis and the cost investigate the matter raised by the Deputy and benefit analysis which he has carried out or pro- to reply to him directly. poses to carry out in respect of decentralisation as it affects his Department. [19088/04] Health Board Services. 282. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for 278. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Health Health and Children the average annual increase and Children the waiting time for a person need- in salary costs, overtime and travel to, from and ing a speech therapist in the various health board in the decentralised offices in the three years fol- areas; the positions vacant; and the crisis lowing decentralisation compared to these costs measures being taken to fill those vacancies. for those business units in the three years preced- [19047/04] ing decentralisation, in respect of the last decen- Minister of State at the Department of Health tralisation by his Department. [19103/04] and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The provision 283. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for of health services, including speech and language Health and Children the number of persons therapy, to people with a physical and/or sensory decentralised and the full duration of the project, disability is a matter for the Eastern Regional in respect of the last decentralisation by his Health Authority and the health boards in the Department; the number of internal and external first instance. The information requested by the transfers which were required to obtain the requi- Deputy is not readily available in my Depart- site number of persons decentralising; the amount ment. The chief executive officers of the Eastern of time necessary to train decentralising persons Regional Health Authority and the health boards and the percentage and duration of overlapping have been requested to provide the information staff which was required; and the additional costs in respect of each board and forward it directly for overtime and travel and subsistence to the Deputy as a matter of urgency. incurred. [19118/04] 279. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Health Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): and Children if he will make a statement on the I propose to take Questions Nos. 281 to 283, position regarding the proposed drug treatment inclusive, together. centre on the North Road, Finglas. [19052/04] While preliminary work has been taking place on decentralisation, my Department and the bod- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): ies established under the aegis of my Department, The provision of drug treatment services is the are not required at this stage to undertake a risk statutory responsibility of the health boards in the assessment exercise in respect of the public ser- first instance. In this case, the responsibility rests vice decentralisation programme. Until such time with the Northern Area Health Board of the as there is a final decision by Government on the Eastern Regional Health Authority. My Depart- location of the headquarters of the Health Ser- ment has requested the regional chief executive vice Executive and associated agencies the infor- of the Eastern Regional Health Authority to look mation request by the Deputy cannot be pro- into the matter and to reply directly to the vided. This decision is expected shortly. Deputy. On foot of a Government decision in 1992, a portion of my Department, namely the General Register Officer, GRO, decentralised to Roscom- Hospitals Building Programme. mon in 1996. In order to retain an acceptable 280. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Health level of service to the public and to allow time for and Children the status in relation to develop- the roll out of the GRO modernisation pro- ment plans for the completion of phase 2B at gramme, incorporating major legislative change Mullingar Regional Hospital; when a decision will and the provision of electronic registration it was be made to allow the project to proceed to tender decided to proceed with the decentralisation on a in view of the long-standing nature of this matter; phased basis. and if he will make a statement on the matter. There are now 40 staff employed in the [19053/04] decentralised office. Of this number, seven staff transferred from my Department, two staff were Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): directly recruited and the balance of 31 trans- A development control plan for this project has ferred from other Departments over a number of been submitted to my Department by the Mid- years. The Roscommon office has, to date, been land Health Board. The next stage is the appoint- dedicated to new and additional preparatory ment of a design team to prepare relevant tender work in the form of the capture of several million documentation. The project is at present being entries of historic registration data, for conver- considered by my Department in the context of sion to an electronic format, including an exten- determining capital priorities to be progressed in sive quality assurance process. This work while 2004 or beyond, in line with overall available facilitating decentralisation primarily arises due funding resources. to the GRO modernisation programme, led by 613 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 614 the Department of Social and Family Affairs in in regard to the opening of the unit. I am hopeful association with my Department, as distinct from these discussions will have a positive outcome. decentralisation alone. For this reason, the GRO Dublin office has continued to operate to full Medical Cards. capacity to date, including the provision of service 286. Mr. McGuinness asked the Minister for to the public and the roll out of electronic registration. Health and Children if a medical card will be The preparatory work carried out in Roscom- issued without delay to a person (details mon is now nearing completion and this will allow supplied) in County Kilkenny; and if a decision for the work traditionally done in Dublin to trans- will be expedited. [19126/04] fer to the decentralised office by mid 2005. Over- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): lap training for the finalisation of the project has Responsibility for the provision of a medical card recently commenced, on a phased basis. For this is, by legislation, a matter for the chief executive reason, and in particular the fact that the work officer of the relevant health board or authority. being undertaken at both locations to date has My Department has, therefore, asked the chief not been one and the same or overlap work of executive officer of the South Eastern Health any kind, comparison of increases in annual aver- Board to investigate the matter raised by the age costs over periods of three years is neither Deputy and to reply to him directly. feasible nor appropriate in this particular instance. Health Board Services. Hospital Services. 287. Mr. McHugh asked the Minister for Health and Children further to Parliamentary 284. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for Question No. 288 of 11 May 2004, the reason no Health and Children if he will report on his response has been received from the chief execu- efforts to bring Monaghan General Hospital back tive officer in regard to the issue raised; and if he on call, as promised, in the first week of July 2002; will make a statement on the matter. [19127/04] the details of his most recent involvement; the status of the hospital, that is, if an ambulance can Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): bring a stroke or heart attack patient for treat- Responsibility for the provision of orthodontic ment or admission; and if he will make a state- treatment to eligible persons in County Galway ment on the matter. [19124/04] rests with the Western Health Board. My Depart- ment has again asked the chief executive officer Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): to investigate the matter raised by the Deputy Responsibility for the provision of services at and to reply to him directly. Monaghan General Hospital rests with the North Eastern Health Board. My Department has, Hospitals Building Programme. therefore, asked the chief executive officer of the board to investigate the matter raised by the 288. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Health Deputy and to reply to him directly. and Children if his Department’s attention has I have had discussions with the chief executive been drawn to a signed deal between the Mid- officer and management of the board in regard to Western Health Board and the Limerick trust the provision of hospital services across the fund (details supplied); and if he will make a Cavan/Monaghan hospital group. I understand a statement on the matter. [19128/04] steering group has been established to determine the level of service to be provided at both Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): hospital sites. I am advised that this group is I am advised that the Mid-Western Health Board meeting on a regular basis with a view to pro- and the Mid-Western Hospitals Development gressing the issues involved. Trust have signed an agreement for licence rel- evant to the provision of a radiotherapy facility Health Board Services. on the site of Limerick Regional Hospital. Under this agreement, the trust has been given a licence 285. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for for land for the purpose of the construction of a Health and Children when funding will be pro- radiotherapy facility. The trust intends to make vided to the North Eastern Health Board to fully arrangements with a private hospital to operate service the new health board unit for the elderly the facility on its behalf. My understanding is that in Cootehill, County Cavan; when it will open; it is intended to treat public and private patients and the services which will be available. at this facility. However, I have been assured that [19125/04] the development will not require revenue or capi- Minister of State at the Department of Health tal resources from my Department. and Children (Mr. Callely): The provision of I have advised the representatives of the Mid- health services in County Cavan is a matter for Western Health Board of the establishment of a the North Eastern Health Board, in the first national radiation oncology co-ordinating group instance. Following a visit to the area, I arranged which will advise, inter alia, on the national co- for further discussion between the board and the ordination and delivery of existing and planned local voluntary group aimed at making progress radiation oncology services, including agreeing 615 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 616

[Mr. Martin.] improved access to radiation oncology services quality assurance protocols and guidelines for the that are in line with best international practice referral of public patients to private facilities. at the supra-regional centres at Cork University My plans for the development of radiation Hospital and University College Hospital, Gal- oncology services are in line with the report of way. The immediate developments in Cork and the expert working group on the development of Galway will result in the provision of an radiation oncology services in Ireland, which I additional five linear accelerators. This represents launched in October 2003. Its recommendations an increase of approximately 50% in linear accel- have been accepted by Government. The erator capacity. I have provided for the appoint- Government agrees that a major programme is ment of an additional five consultant radiation now required to rapidly develop clinical radiation oncologists. Recruitment for these posts is under oncology treatment services to modern standards. way. Two of these posts will have significant ses- Furthermore, the Government has agreed that sional commitments to the mid-western region. the first phase of such a new programme should We currently have ten consultant radiation oncol- be the development of a clinical network of large ogists nationally. This will result in a significant centres in Dublin, Cork and Galway. The increase in the numbers of patients receiving radi- development of these centres as a clinical net- ation oncology in the short term. work is of paramount importance and will, in the shortest possible timeframe, begin to address the Medical Cards. profound deficit in radiation therapy capacity 289. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for that has been identified in the report. The imple- Health and Children the number of medical cards mentation of the report’s recommendations is my in 2004, 2002 and 1997. [19159/04] single most important priority in cancer services in the acute setting. Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): In regard to patients in the mid-western region, The details requested by the Deputy are set out significant progress is being made to ensure in the following tabular statement.

Year Number of Cards Issued Number of People Eligible % of Population Covered by Medical Card Scheme

% 1997 736,798 1,219,852 33.64 2002 757,601 1,168,745 29.84 2004 (May) 766,596 1,154,861 29.48

Health Board Services. matter raised by the Deputy and reply to her directly. 290. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Health and Children when a person (details supplied) in 292. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Health County Kildare will receive orthodontic treat- and Children his plans to provide respite for the ment; and if he will make a statement on the mat- families of patients suffering from schizophrenia, ter. [19160/04] many members of which are often full-time car- ers; and if he will make a statement on the mat- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): ter. [19191/04] Responsibility for the provision of orthodontic treatment to eligible persons in County Kildare 293. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Health rests with the Eastern Regional Health Auth- and Children if he has plans to review the housing ority. My Department has asked the regional needs of schizophrenia patients, in order that chief executive to investigate the matter raised by they can live independently with a house parent the Deputy and to reply to him directly. present; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19192/04] Mental Health Services. Minister of State at the Department of Health 291. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Health and Children (Mr. O’Malley): I propose to take and Children if he has satisfied himself that the Questions Nos. 292 and 293 together. mental health service provision in Ballyfermot is adequate; his plans to upgrade the current build- Responsibility for the provision of the services ing; and if he will make a statement on the mat- referred to by the Deputy rests, in the first ter. [19190/04] instance, with the relevant health board. As a result of capital investment in the mental health Minister of State at the Department of Health services since 1997, there are now 411 community and Children (Mr. O’Malley): Responsibility for psychiatric residences in the country providing the provision of the services referred to by the 3,146 places compared to 391 residences provid- Deputy rests with the Eastern Regional Health ing 2,878 places in 1997. The provision of these Authority. My Department has, therefore, asked extra residences provides the means for more the regional chief executive to investigate the patients to live independently in the community. 617 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 618

My Department also provides financial assistance new CNUs will be developed when the initial through the health boards to Schizophrenia pilot programmes are complete, providing up to Ireland which provides support to people with a maximum of 850 new beds in Dublin and Cork. schizophrenia and their families. Services offered in these units to patients will The future direction and delivery of all aspects include assessment and rehabilitation; respite; of our mental health services will be considered extended care; convalescence; and, if the PPP in the context of the work of expert group on pilot demonstrates success, it is intended to use mental health policy. It is expected that the it as a means of providing additional community expert group will report in 2005. nursing units in other locations throughout the country. Hospital Services. Under the acute bed capacity initiative, my Department has provided additional funding of 294. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for \17.6 million this year, \13.8 million to the Health and Children if he will report on the inci- ERHA and \3.8 million to the Southern Health dent raised in Da´il E´ ireann on 22 June 2004 with Board, to facilitate the discharge of patients from regard to a person (details supplied) and their the acute hospital system to a more appropriate treatment in Tallaght Hospital; and if he will setting thereby freeing up acute beds. This initiat- make a statement on the matter. [19225/04] ive provides for funding, through the nursing Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): home subvention scheme, of additional beds in Services at the Adelaide and Meath Hospital the private nursing home sector and ongoing sup- incorporating the National Children’s Hospital at port in the community. My Department has pro- Tallaght are provided under an arrangement with vided significant funding for the nursing home the Eastern Regional Health Authority. My subvention scheme, and that over \443 million Department has, therefore, asked the regional has been allocated to the scheme over the past chief executive of the authority to examine this five years. In 2000, the budget available for the issue and to reply to the Deputy directly. scheme was \48.439 million, and this year \115 million was made available which equates to an Hospital Accommodation. overall increase of 137% in funding. Approxi- 295. Mr. Haughey asked the Minister for mately 350 people have benefited from this fund- Health and Children the measures he is taking to ing resulting in their discharge from acute provide more public long-term care beds in order hospitals in the eastern region to private nursing to relieve the problems in acute hospitals; the homes and to their own homes. In the Cork area, initiatives introduced to encourage patients to the initiative has resulted in the discharge of 270 transfer to private nursing homes or to return to patients from acute hospitals to more appropriate their own homes instead; if new guidelines have settings. Both the ERHA and the Southern issued to health boards from his Department in Health Board are actively monitoring the situa- this regard; and if he will make a statement on tion and working with hospitals, the area health the matter. [19226/04] boards and the private nursing home sector to ensure that every effort is made to minimise the Minister of State at the Department of Health number of delayed discharges from the acute and Children (Mr. Callely): As the Deputy may hospital system. be aware, there is a commitment in the national The Deputy may be interested to note that I health strategy to provide 1,370 additional assess- have been meeting with administrative and medi- ment and rehabilitation beds, plus 600 additional cal representatives of the ERHA, the area health day hospital beds with facilities encompassing boards and the Dublin academic teaching specialist areas such as falls, osteoporosis treat- hospitals, DATHs, on a regular basis and that at ment, fracture prevention, Parkinson’s disease, the most recent meeting I was advised by the stroke prevention, heart failure and continence authority that it has commenced a programme to promotion clinics. In addition, the strategy pro- re-open public extended care beds which were posed the provision of an extra 5,600 extended closed for a number of reasons. care/community nursing unit places over a seven year period which will include provision for Health Board Services. people with dementia. Provision of the above 296. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Health facilities was contingent on the provision of the and Children if orthodontic treatment will be necessary resources. made available for a person (details supplied) in As the Deputy may also be aware, public County Cork; and if he will make a statement on private partnerships, PPPs, are currently being the matter. [19227/04] piloted in the health sector. PPPs are based on the concept that better value for money for the Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): Exchequer may be achieved through the exploi- Responsibility for the provision of orthodontic tation of private sector competencies to capture treatment to eligible persons in County Cork innovation and the allocation of risk to the party rests with the Southern Health Board. My best able to manage it. Initially, the focus will be Department has asked the chief executive officer mainly in the area of community nursing units, to investigate the matter raised by the Deputy CNUs, for older people. It is anticipated that 17 and to reply to him directly. 619 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 620

Hospital Services. pay scales and career structures, enhanced oppor- 297. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Health tunities for professional and career development, and Children the length of time a person (details the availability of the fast track working visa supplied) in County Mayo has been on a waiting scheme and the streamlining of procedures for list for cataract surgery; and when they will be the validation of overseas qualifications are called for surgery. [19228/04] designed to help sustain the improvements in staffing levels achieved for speech and language Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): therapy services, both at local and national level. The provision of hospital services for people liv- In addition, as the Deputy may be aware, three ing in County Mayo is a matter for the Western new speech and language therapy courses com- Health Board. My Department has asked the menced in the 2003/2004 academic year in UCC, chief executive officer of the board to investigate NUIG and UL. In total, these courses will pro- the position in regard to this case and to reply directly to the Deputy. vide an additional 75 training places in speech and language therapy. This expansion in training Health Board Services. numbers has been identified in the Bacon report as sufficient to meet the long-term demand-sup- 298. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Health ply balance for speech and language therapists and Children the average length of time spent by in Ireland. autistic children on the waiting list for speech and Responsibility for human resource planning, language therapy in the various health board including the monitoring and filling of vacant areas; and the immediate new measures he pro- speech and language therapist posts in each poses to introduce to reduce the waiting time for health board area, rests with the chief executive those requiring attention. [19262/04] officer, CEO, of each board. Each CEO, in man- 300. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Health aging the workforce in his or her region, is and Children the support mechanisms in place for responsible for determining the appropriate staff- parents of children with autism in need of speech ing mix and the precise grades of staff to be therapy and other services. [19264/04] employed in line with service plan priorities, sub- Minister of State at the Department of Health ject to overall employment levels remaining and Children (Mr. O’Malley): I propose to take within the approved regional employment ceiling. Questions Nos. 298 and 300 together. Therefore, my Department does not routinely As the information requested by the Deputy is collect information on vacant speech and langu- not readily available in my Department, my age therapy posts and has asked the chief execu- officials have asked the regional chief executive tive of each health board to investigate the matter of the Eastern Regional Health Authority and raised by the Deputy and to reply to him directly. the chief executive officers of the health boards to investigate the matters raised by the deputy Question No. 300 answered with Question and reply directly to him. No. 298.

Health Board Staff. Child Abuse. 299. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Health 301. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Health and Children the number of vacant speech and and Children further to Parliamentary Question language therapist posts in the various health No. 278 of 21 October 2003 his plans to amend board areas; and the emergency measures he pro- the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act poses to introduce to deal with those vacancies 2001 (Additional Functions Order, 2001) (details which are having a negative effect on the children supplied) which empowered the commission to waiting. [19263/04] inquire, through its investigation committee, into Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): the circumstances legality, conduct ethical pro- As the Deputy may be aware, intensive efforts priety and effects on the subjects of the three vac- have been undertaken to improve staffing levels cine trials referred to in the chief medical officers in speech and language therapy, both at local and report; if he will conduct similar inquiries into any national level. The success of these measures other trials that took place in an institution during have contributed to an increase of 93 whole-time the period 1 January 1940 to 31 December 1987 equivalents, WTEs, in the public health service in view of the fact that the Supreme Court has from 399 WTEs at end-2001 to 492 WTEs at end- raised concerns regarding the vires of this statu- 2003. This represents an increase of almost 20% tory instrument; and if he will make a statement over the period complementing the increase of on the matter. [19284/04] 13.5%, 345 WTEs to 399 WTEs, which took place over the two year period from end-1999 to end- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): 2001. The recent judgment handed down by the courts The continued implementation of the recom- is currently being examined. When this examin- mendations of the report of the expert group on ation is completed a decision will then be made various health professions which included new in regard to this matter. 621 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 622

Hospital Services. The grade of specialist in orthodontics has been created in the health board orthodontic service. 302. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Health In 2003, my Department and the health boards and Children when a person (details supplied) in County Cavan will be called to the Mater funded 13 dentists from various health boards for Hospital; and if they can be admitted as a matter specialist in orthodontics qualifications at training of urgency. [19320/04] programmes in Ireland and at three separate uni- versities in the United Kingdom. These 13 Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): trainees for the public orthodontic service are Responsibility for the provision of acute hospital additional to the six dentists who commenced services to residents of County Cavan rests with their training in 2001. Thus, there is an aggregate the North Eastern Health Board. My Department of 19 dentists in specialist training for orthodon- has, therefore, asked the chief executive officer tics. These measures will complement the other of the board to investigate the matter raised by structural changes being introduced into the the Deputy and to reply to him directly. orthodontic service, including the creation of an auxiliary grade of orthodontic therapist to work Services for People with Disabilities. in the orthodontic area. 303. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Furthermore, the commitment of the Depart- Health and Children further to Parliamentary ment to training development is manifested in the Question No. 158 of 6 May 2004, if he will pro- funding provided to both the training of specialist vide the capital resources to ensure that works clinical staff and the recruitment of a professor are carried out at Ivy House, Castlerea; and if he in orthodontics for the Cork Dental School. This will make a statement on the matter. [19325/04] appointment at the school will facilitate the development of an approved training programme Minister of State at the Department of Health leading to specialist qualification in orthodontics. and Children (Mr. O’Malley): The position with The chief executive officer of the Southern regard to the refurbishment of Ivy House, Health Board has reported that the professor Castlerea, is as outlined in my reply of the 6 May commenced duty on the 1 of December 2003. In 2004, which stated that this is a matter for the recognition of the importance of this post at Cork Western Health Board. As the Deputy is aware Dental School my Department has given from my previous reply, my Department has approval in principle to a proposal from the asked the chief executive officer of the Western school to further substantially improve the train- Health Board to reply directly to him. ing facilities there for orthodontics. This project should see the construction of a large orthodontic Hospital Services. unit and support facilities; it will ultimately sup- 304. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Health port an enhanced teaching and treatment service and Children when a hip replacement operation to the wider region, including the MWHB, under will be completed for a person (details supplied) the leadership of the professor of orthodontics. in County Limerick at the Mid-West Regional In June 2002, my Department provided Hospital. [19356/04] additional funding of \5 million from the treat- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): ment purchase fund to the health boards and The provision of hospital services for people liv- authority specifically for the purchase of ortho- ing in County Limerick is a matter for the Mid- dontic treatment. This funding is enabling boards Western Health Board. My Department has to provide both additional sessions for existing asked the chief executive officer of the board to staff and purchase treatment from private special- ist orthodontic practitioners. The MWHB was investigate the position in regard to this case and \ to reply directly to the Deputy. allocated an additional 0.451 million from this fund for the treatment of cases in this way. Health Board Services. The chief executive officer of the MWHB has informed my Department that there were 2,597 305. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for and 601 patients awaiting assessment and treat- Health and Children the way in which he intends ment, respectively, at the end of the March quar- to deal with the huge waiting list for children in ter 2004; this means the assessment and treatment the mid-west region for orthodontic treatment; waiting lists in the board have been reduced by and if he will make a statement on the matter. 999 and 404, respectively, between December [19357/04] 2001 and March 2004. The chief executive officer Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): has also informed my Department that at the end The provision of orthodontic services is the statu- of the March quarter 2004, there were 1,827 chil- tory responsibility of the health boards or auth- dren receiving orthodontic treatment in the ority in the first instance. board. I am pleased to advise the Deputy that I have The chief executive officers of the health taken a number of measures to increase the treat- boards and authority have informed my Depart- ment capacity of orthodontic services in the Mid- ment that at the end of the March quarter 2004, Western Health Board, MWHB, area and on a there were 21,033 children receiving orthodontic national basis. treatment in the public orthodontic service. This 623 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 624

[Mr. Martin.] Mental Health Services. means that there are over twice as many children 308. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Health receiving orthodontic treatment as there are chil- and Children if it is the responsibility of his dren waiting to be treated and almost 4,000 extra Department, through the South Eastern Health children are getting treatment from the health Board to provide psychiatric services for a special boards and authority since the end of 2001. school (details supplied) in County Waterford; his proposals in this regard; and if he will make a Medical Cards. statement on the matter. [19360/04] 306. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Minister of State at the Department of Health Health and Children the reason a person (details and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): Responsibility supplied) in County Clare did not qualify for a for the provision of health-related services in the medical card; and if he will make a statement on south-east region is a matter, in the first instance, the matter. [19358/04] for the South Eastern Health Board. My Depart- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): ment has, therefore, asked the chief executive Responsibility for the provision of a medical card officer of the South Eastern Health Board to is, by legislation, a matter for the chief executive investigate the matter raised by the Deputy and officer of the relevant health board or authority. reply directly to him. My Department has, therefore, asked the chief executive officer of the Mid-Western Health Services for People with Disabilities. Board to investigate the matter raised by the 309. Mr. McGuinness asked the Minister for Deputy and to reply to him directly. Health and Children if a wheelchair will be pro- vided immediately for a person (details supplied) Medicinal Products. in County Kilkenny; the number of persons wait- 307. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Health ing for wheelchairs in the South Eastern Health and Children the extent of the use of antidepress- Board area; and if he will make a statement on ant pills among young persons and children here; the matter. [19361/04] his views on whether the extent of usage of such Minister of State at the Department of Health pills is excessive and inappropriate; and if he will and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The provision of make a statement on the matter. [19359/04] aids and appliances in any individual case is a matter for the relevant health board. My Depart- Minister of State at the Department of Health ment has therefore asked the chief executive and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): Prescriptions are officer, South Eastern Health Board, to investi- issued by health professionals based on the symp- gate this case and reply directly to the Deputy as toms of the presenting patient at the time of con- a matter of urgency. sultation. The level of medication prescribed, In regard to the Deputy’s query on the number therefore, is a matter of clinical decision for the of persons waiting for wheelchairs in the South particular doctor involved. Prescriptions for anti- Eastern Health Board area, this information is depressants may be issued by either general prac- not readily available in my Department. There- titioners or consultants in a variety of locations, fore, my Department has asked the South East- for example, general practice, community psychi- ern Health Board to respond directly to the atric facilities or private or public psychiatric Deputy regarding this matter. hospitals. Statistics on the extent of the use of antide- Health Board Services. pressants among young persons and children are not available. Figures provided by the General 310. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Health Medical Services (Payments) Board for the year and Children the reason for the delay in a person ending 31 December 2003 show that 205,764 (details supplied) in Dublin 24 receiving speech medical cardholders were prescribed anti- and language therapy from their health board; depressants in that year. A total of 1,178 people and the further length of time they will have to were prescribed anti-depressants under the long- wait before a speech therapist becomes available term illness scheme while statistics for the drugs in view of the recognised importance of early payment scheme, DPS, indicate that 92,022 intervention. [19362/04] people were prescribed anti-depressants. Minister of State at the Department of Health The future direction and delivery of all aspects and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): Responsibility of our mental health services will be considered for the provision of health-related services to in the context of the work of expert group on people with an intellectual disability or autism in mental health policy which was established in the Dublin region is a matter, in the first instance, August 2003 to prepare a new national policy for the Eastern Regional Health Authority. My framework for the mental health services, updat- Department has, therefore, asked the regional ing the 1984 policy document, Planning for the chief executive of the Eastern Regional Health Future. It is expected that the expert group will Authority to investigate the matter raised by the report in 2005. Deputy and reply directly to him. 625 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 626

Hospital Staff. vaccine damage compensation scheme under review. 311. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Health and Children if he will make a statement on a report in a newspaper (details supplied) stat- Health Board Services. ing that the paediatric unit of Our Lady of 314. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Lourdes Hospital has been left dangerously Health and Children if his attention has been understaffed due to the North Eastern Health drawn to the fact that there is a one year waiting Board having being unable to fill a number of period for speech and language therapy for chil- positions. [19363/04] dren in Bray and a four-year waiting period in Wicklow; if the recruitment embargo will be lifted Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): to ensure proper staffing; and if he will make a Responsibility for the provision of services at Our statement on the matter. [19381/04] Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda, rests with the North Eastern Health Board. My Department Minister of State at the Department of Health has, therefore, asked the chief executive officer and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The provision of the board to investigate the matter raised by of health services, including speech and language the Deputy and to reply to him directly. therapy, to people with a physical and/or sensory disability is a matter for the Eastern Regional Health Board Services. Health Authority and the health boards in the first instance. Accordingly, the Deputy’s question 312. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Health has been referred to the regional chief executive and Children the number of prisoners who were of the Eastern Regional Health Authority with a admitted on a voluntary basis to the Central Men- request that he investigate the matter raised and tal Hospital each year between 1998 and 2004 reply directly to the Deputy as a matter of inclusive. [19364/04] urgency. Minister of State at the Department of Health 315. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Health and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): Responsibility and Children the services that will be available for the provision of the services referred to by the for a person (details supplied) in County Mayo Deputy rests with the Eastern Regional Health when they return to their home; if services will be Authority. My Department has therefore asked provided to ensure care at home 24 hours a day; the regional chief executive to investigate the and the services available for a person such as matter raised by the Deputy and reply to him this. [19400/04] directly. Minister of State at the Department of Health Vaccination Programme. and Children (Mr. Callely): As the Deputy will 313. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for be aware, the provision of health services in the Health and Children further to Parliamentary Mayo area is, in the first instance, the responsi- Question No. 334 of 2 March 2004, when details bility of the Western Health Board. My Depart- of the preliminary review of the schemes will be ment has, therefore, asked the chief executive of published; if he will establish a vaccine damage the board to investigate the matter raised by the compensation scheme; the actions he has taken to Deputy and reply direct to him as a matter of date following his meeting with the Irish vaccine urgency. injury campaign representatives in April 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Hospital Waiting Lists. [19375/04] 316. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Health Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): and Children if a person (details supplied) in The matters raised by the group concerned at the County Leitrim will be called for a hip operation meeting in April 2002 were considered by my to Sligo General Hospital in view of the deterior- Department. A preliminary review of the ation in their condition; and if he will make a schemes in place in a number of other countries statement on the matter. [19409/04] was subsequently undertaken by my Department; Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): this preliminary review involved a general overv- Responsibility for the provision of health services iew of details of schemes in place in a number of to persons living in County Leitrim rests with the other countries. This review was done in order North Western Health Board. My Department to establish general details of schemes already in has, therefore, asked the chief executive officer existence; however, a detailed examination of of the board to investigate the matter raised by such schemes has not yet been undertaken. This the Deputy and to reply to him directly. preliminary overview is a working document which forms part of the deliberative process and 317. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for it would not be appropriate to release the details Health and Children if he can take action to bring thereof at this stage. forward an appointment for a person (details My Department is keeping the position in supplied) in County Monaghan; if he has satisfied regard to the possible establishment of an alleged himself that this is the type of service that should 627 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 628

[Mr. Crawford.] of the cost of the Dunne inquiry in the six months be available to a person such as this; and if he to June 2004. [19417/04] will make a statement on the matter. [19416/04] Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): In reply to a Parliamentary Question on 19 Nov- ember 2003, I informed the House that as at 31 Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): October 2003, the post mortem inquiry chaired Responsibility for the provision of health services by Anne Dunne SC, had incurred costs of \7.237 to persons living in County Monaghan rests with million. This figure included the fees of the chair- the North Eastern Health Board. My Department man and legal staff in the inquiry and administrat- has therefore asked the chief executive officer of ive salaries and costs. the board to investigate the matter raised by the In reply to a Parliamentary Question on 15 Deputy and to reply to him directly. June 2004, I advised that the cost of the inquiry was \15.3 million at the end of May 2004. The Tribunals of Inquiry. latter figure includes expenditure under a number of headings that were not covered in the earlier 318. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for reply. The following is a breakdown of the expen- Health and Children the reason for the doubling diture of \15.3 million. \

1. Premises/Furniture/Equipment/Services/Rental Fit out of premises 750,809 Furniture, supplies, systems and services. 440,000 Rental Payments 839,846 Sub-Total 2,030,655 2. Legal Fees Inquiry Team fees to end May, 2004 6,180,855 Kelly Noone Solicitors to Parents for Justice 667,704 Departments legal fees 3,871 Sub-Total 6,852,430

3. Administrative costs Salaries, of Inquiry Staff, heat, power, light, maintenance, cleaning, security etc. to end May 2004

Sub-Total 2,027,448

4. Health Service Costs Grant to Eastern Regional Health Authority towards expenditure associated with Post Mortem Inquiry 2000-2003 3,810,000 Grant to Parents for Justice 650,811 Total 15,371,344

Health Board Services. County Mayo was placed on the orthodontic treatment list; and when they can expect to be 319. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Health called for the commencement of orthodontic and Children the details of the staff who have treatment. [19421/04] been recruited for CAMP West; the number still in place; the number who have left the service to Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): date; if the CAMP West facility is operational at Responsibility for the provision of orthodontic the present time; and if he will make a statement treatment to eligible persons in County Mayo on the matter. [19420/04] rests with the Western Health Board. My Depart- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): ment has asked the chief executive officer to CAMP West is a joint venture between the local investigate the matter raised by the Deputy and authorities of Connacht, Donegal and the West- to reply to him directly. ern Health Board. The contracting authority for the project is Mayo County Council. Accordingly, Hospital Staff. the Deputy may wish to take the matter up with the council. 321. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Health and Children the reason, in the wake of the Lind- 320. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Health say tribunal report, no consultant haematologist and Children when a person (details supplied) in with an interest in haemophilia has been 629 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 630 appointed to the Southern Health Board; the care provided to persons with haemophilia will be further reason recommendations 4, 5 and 7 of the of a consistently high standard regardless of tribunal are not being implemented in the South- where they live. Another initiative which is well ern Health Board area; the further reason an under way is the development of a national viral application for the appointment of a haemophilia assessment programme and haemophilia data- consultant which was sent to his Department in base which will meet key concerns in the Lindsay autumn 2003 has not been sanctioned and no report. This programme will support the delivery explanation has been given for the delay. of patient care both in the national centre for her- [19467/04] editary coagulation disorders at St. James’s Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): Hospital, Dublin, and in treating centres nation- The provision of hospital services, including the wide. The Irish Haematology Society is working appointment of staff, at Cork University with the National Haemophilia Council on the Hospital, CUH, is a matter for the Southern development of national treatment protocols. A Health Board. The board has submitted an appli- patient information day is being planned for Nov- cation to my Department for a new post of con- ember to launch these protocols. sultant haematologist with an interest in haemo- philia at CUH. This is one of a number of Health Board Services. consultant posts which the board has submitted. The question of funding of additional consultant 322. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Health posts can only be considered in the context of and Children when physiotherapy, occupational available resources and the Southern Health therapy and speech therapy will be offered to a Board’s priorities for services in the acute person (details supplied) in County Kildare; and hospitals sector. The matter is under consider- if he will make a statement on the matter. ation and my Department will revert to the [19520/04] Southern Health Board. Officials of my Department are working with Minister of State at the Department of Health the Irish Haemophilia Society and the treating and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley: ): The provision physicians under the auspices of the National of health services, including physiotherapy, occu- Haemophilia Council to progress the implemen- pational therapy and speech and language ther- tations of the recommendations in the Lindsay apy, to people with a physical and/or sensory dis- report. The establishment of the National Hae- ability is a matter for the Eastern Regional mophilia Council was one of the key recommend- Health Authority and the health boards in the ation in the report. I assure the Deputy that the first instance. Accordingly, the Deputy’s question needs of the Southern Health Board, together has been referred to the regional chief executive with the needs of the other regions, will be fully of the Eastern Regional Health Authority with a taken into account in the implementation process. request that he examine the matter raised and Moreover, a consultant from CUH is the nomi- nated representative of the Irish Haematology reply directly to the Deputy as a matter of Society on the National Haemophilia Council and urgency. the product selection and monitoring advisory group, which are the two principal representative General Practitioner Co-operatives. bodies advising me on haemophilia care. 323. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Health The major recommendation made by Judge and Children further to Parliamentary Question Lindsay in her report is that persons with haemo- No. 128 of 23 June 2004, if at least an additional philia must have continued access to blood prod- \1 million will be provided under the Caredoc co- ucts which are of the highest standard and of the safest nature available. In 2003 priority was given op after hours service heading for 2005 of the to the work of the product selection and monitor- SEHB in order that the introduction of the Care- ing advisory group. As a result of the consider- doc co-op after hours service to Waterford city able time and effort which was dedicated to and county can take place; and if he will make a ensuring that the views of the stakeholders were statement on the matter. [19529/04] given due consideration, the group was in a posi- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): tion to advise the Irish Blood Transfusion Service I refer to my answer of 23 June 2004 in which I on the safest and most efficacious products for the treatment of haemophilia nationally for the outlined the moneys awarded to the South East- period 2003 to 2005. This represents a major ern Health Board for Caredoc between 2000 achievement for the collaborative process under- and 2004. taken by all concerned. Due to budgetary constraints it is not possible I was also pleased to be invited by the National at this time to allocate a further \1 million to the Haemophilia Council to launch a major quality South Eastern Health Board for the expansion of initiative in the delivery of haemophilia care in Caredoc to Waterford. I again remind the Deputy April of this year. This project, which will meet a that all decisions in regard to the geographical number of the recommendations of the Lindsay areas to be covered by co-operatives and the tribunal, will provide a new international stan- order of their commencement are matters for the dard to ensure excellence in the storage, delivery, relevant health board to make, having regard to prescription and administration of haemophilia the range of financial and other issues involved in products. The project will help ensure that the any such expansion. 631 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 632

Health Board Allowances. ciplinary medical team to be made available to patients; independent clinical advice is available, 324. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Minister on request, to patients who have undergone sym- for Health and Children if he will provide for a physiotomy. This has already been availed of by standardised application and assessment pro- a number of members of SOS; independent coun- cedure for the disabled persons housing grant selling services are being made available to across the State, in view of the regional and local patients where requested; an information leaflet variations in procedures which lead to inequality; has been prepared in consultation with SOS and and if he will widen the scheme to ensure that it is expected to issue from the ERHA and health covers 100% of the cost of approved works. boards to general practitioners and patients [19538/04] shortly; the ERHA and the health boards are also Minister of State at the Department of Health trying to ascertain the number of symphysiotom- and Children (Mr. O’Malley): The operation of ies carried out in hospitals throughout the coun- the disabled person’s housing grant is a matter for try. It may take some time to complete this pro- my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, cess as the procedures were carried out some Heritage and Local Government. years ago and may have been undertaken in maternity units or in hospitals that no longer Professional Indemnity Cover. exist; the chief executive officers of the health 325. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for boards and the ERHA have agreed to grant GMS Health and Children his views on the assessment eligibility, based on medical grounds, to SOS of the Medical Defence Union, MDU, that dis- patients who do not have such eligibility; arrange- cussions with his Department have been frustrat- ments are being made to issue a special patient ing and non productive and that a negotiated sol- identifier card to allow for the fast-tracking of ution is now impossible; and if he will make a patients requiring hospital appointments and statement on the matter. [19551/04] treatments. My Department is advised that the issue of the Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): establishment of a helpline was discussed with the The discussions which my Department has been SOS group, and that it was agreed with the group engaged in with the Medical Defence Union, in to prioritise the implementation of arrangements regard to historic obstetric liabilities have been in relation to the special services card and the long and difficult. This, in part, reflects the diffi- medical management of patients. The question of cult and complex nature of the problem which a national helpline will be reviewed by the both sides are attempting to address. I do not ERHA and the health boards in consultation with accept the MDU’s contention that a negotiated the SOS group. agreement is impossible to achieve. I have just In addition to the above measures, the chief written to the MDU indicating the Government’s medical officer of my Department has contacted interest in negotiating a solution to this problem an international expert who has expressed an which is fair to patients, doctors and Irish tax- interest in undertaking a review of the practice of payers. I expect an equally positive response from symphysiotomy in Ireland. It is hoped that this the MDU. review can commence in the near future.

Hospital Procedures. National Lottery Funding. 326. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for 327. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Health Health and Children the situation regarding the and Children if he has received an application provision of services for the survivors of symphy- from the Mayo Cancer Support Association for siotomy particularly the provision of a national national lottery assistance; if this application has helpline and special services cards. [19596/04] been assessed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19597/04] Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): At a meeting with the Survivors of Symphysi- Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): otomy, SOS, group late last year, I agreed that a My Department received an application for a range of measures would be put in place by the grant from the health and children allocation of Eastern Regional Health Authority, ERHA, and national lottery funds on 5 April 2004 from the the health boards to support the group. My Mayo Cancer Support Association. The associ- Department is advised that the current position ation applied for \50,000 towards the cost of is as follows: The health boards and the relevant building an extension. voluntary hospitals in the eastern region have There is a protocol in my Department for pro- appointed liaison officers, who are meeting with cessing applications for national lottery grants. patients who have undergone symphysiotomy to When the completed application form is received discuss their health care needs; an exercise is in my Department it is registered in the finance ongoing, in conjunction with the SOS group, to unit and forwarded to the relevant services div- profile patients in order to assist in formulating a ision for its assessment, evaluation and recom- needs assessment for each individual; the CEOs mendation. All applications are then considered group is finalising arrangements for the establish- in the context of the recommendation and the ment of care pathways and for a multi-dis- overall level of funds available to me. The assess- 633 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 634 ment process for this application is currently United States Public Health Service, and; the ongoing. The application is one of many under United States Surgeon General. consideration for a grant from my Department As the Deputy is aware, I established the and the organisation will be informed as soon as forum on fluoridation to review the fluoridation a decision has been made. of public piped water supplies in Ireland; its main conclusion was that the fluoridation of public Hospital Services. piped water supplies should continue as a public 328. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Health health measure; it also concluded that the best and Children if his attention has been drawn to available and most reliable scientific evidence the six-month delay in having routine ultrasound indicates that at the maximum permitted level of abdominal tests carried out at Mayo General fluoride in drinking water at one part per million, Hospital; his views on whether a six-month wait- human health is not adversely affected. ing period is excessive for a basic investigation; The forum on fluoridation reported that the if his attention has further been drawn to details chemicals used to fluoridate public piped water supplied by a local practitioner, two of whose eld- supplies are manufactured to exacting quality erly patients died during the waiting period; the standards; in fact, the fluoridation agent currently proposals he has to deal with this problem; the used in Ireland to fluoridate water is a primary extra number of ultrasound machines which will product of a specific manufacturing process: it is be provided; and if he will make a statement on not an industrial waste product as declared by the matter. [19598/04] opponents of fluoride technology. Concerns were expressed about the presence of Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): heavy metals in the fluoridating agent; therefore, The provision of services at Mayo General the forum investigated the metals contents of a Hospital is a matter for the Western Health small number of samples of the agent; and it Board. My Department has asked the chief reported that the residual metals concentrations executive officer of the board to investigate the would be a tiny fraction of the guideline values position in regard to the issues raised and to reply recommended by the World Health Organisation. directly to the Deputy. On the basis of these scientific findings, there are no requirements to change the method of fluorid- Water Fluoridation. ating public piped water supplies. 329. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Health The forum consisted of people with expert and Children his views on mandatory fluori- knowledge spanning the areas of public health, dation; and if he will make a statement on the biochemistry, dental health, bone health, food matter. [19599/04] safety, environmental protection, ethics, water quality, health promotion and representatives 331. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Health from the consumer and environmental areas. This and Children if he has plans to change the process diversity of professional backgrounds and rep- and method of providing fluoridation to public resentation was reflected in the comprehensive water supplies; the scientific evidence available to way the forum conducted its work and research; him in this regard; and if he will make a statement ultimately, the forum took an evidence based on the matter. [19602/04] approach to its examination of water fluoridation. Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): In all, the report of the fluoridation forum I propose to take Questions Nos. 329 and 331 made 33 recommendations covering a broad together. range of topics such as research, public aware- The use of fluoride technology is known to ness, and policy and technical aspects of fluori- manifest a positive oral health outcome. Local dation. The expert body, that was recommended and national surveys and studies conducted since by the forum, has been established; its terms of the introduction of fluoridation in this country reference are to oversee the implementation of attest to the reduced dental decay levels of chil- the recommendations of the forum on fluori- dren and teenagers in fluoridated areas compared dation; to advise the Minister and evaluate to those residing in non-fluoridated areas. For ongoing research, including new emerging issues, example, in the Western Health Board, the fluori- on all aspects of fluoride and its delivery methods dation forum reported that the average number as an established health technology and as of decayed, missing, or filled teeth in 12 year old required; and to report to the Minister on matters children was 4.2 in 1961; in 1992, a further study of concern at his or her request or on own of 12 year old children in the board showed that initiative. the average number of decayed, missing, or filled The expert body has broad representation, teeth among lifetime residents of fluoridated including from the areas of public health medi- communities was 1.6. cine, engineering, management, environmental Furthermore, the safety and effectiveness of protection, environmental health, dentistry, and water fluoridation has been endorsed by a num- health promotion. I am pleased to inform the ber of international and reputable bodies such as Deputy that the body will have a strong consumer the World Health Organisation, WHO; the Cen- input in terms of members of the public and rep- tre for Disease Control and Prevention; the resentatives of consumer interests, in addition to 635 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 636

[Mr. Martin.] with the Eastern Regional Health Authority. My the necessary scientific, managerial and public Department has asked the regional chief execu- health inputs. The expert body will oversee the tive to investigate the matter raised by the implementation of the wide-ranging recommend- Deputy and to reply to him directly. ations of the forum and advise me on all aspects of fluoride going forward. 333. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for Health and Children if urgent assistance will be Long-Term Illness Scheme. given to a person (details supplied) in Dublin 5; and if this will be made a priority issue. 330. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Health [19617/04] and Children if he will include in the long-term illness scheme, persons suffering from late effects Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): of polio, otherwise known as post-polio syn- Responsibility for the provision of orthodontic drome. [19600/04] treatment to eligible persons in Dublin 5 rests Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): with the Eastern Regional Health Authority. My Under the 1970 Health Act, a health board may Department has asked the regional chief execu- arrange for the supply, without charge, of drugs, tive to investigate the matter raised by the medicines and medical and surgical appliances to Deputy and to reply to him directly. people with a specified condition, for the treat- ment of that condition under the long-term Ill- Hospital Services. ness scheme. The conditions are: mental handi- 334. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Health cap, mental illness, for people under 16 only, and Children the position regarding the provision phenylketonuria, cystic fibrosis, spina bifida, of a breast cancer unit at Waterford Regional hydrocephalus, diabetes mellitus, diabetes Hospital for symptomatic breast cancer; and if the insipidus, haemophilia, cerebral palsy, epilepsy, unit will provide for non-symptomatic patients multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophies, parkin- picked up through BreastCheck. [19620/04] sonism, conditions arising from thalidomide and acute leukaemia. There are currently no plans to Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): amend the list of eligible conditions. The national breast screening programme com- Other schemes provide assistance towards the menced in March 2000 to implement a scheme cost of approved drugs and medicines for people for the early diagnosis and primary treatment of with significant ongoing medical expenses. People breast cancer in women in the 50 to 64 age group. who cannot, without undue hardship, arrange for Phase 1 of the scheme operates in the eastern the provision of medical services for themselves part of the country. Last year, I announced the and their dependants may be entitled to a medical extension of the programme to counties Carlow, card. Eligibility for a medical card is solely a mat- Kilkenny and Wexford and the national roll out ter for the chief executive officer of the relevant to the west and southern parts of the country. health board. In determining eligibility, the CEO Under the BreastCheck scheme, women will have has regard to the applicant’s financial circum- their diagnosis, investigation and primary treat- stances. Health boards use income guidelines to ment managed by a multi-disciplinary team. assist in determining eligibility. However, where a Two centres currently operate in the eastern person’s income exceeds the guidelines, a medical region, one at St Vincent’s Hospital, Dublin, and card may be awarded if the CEO considers that the other at the Mater Hospital, Dublin. In 2002, the person’s medical needs or other circum- the European reference organisation for quality- stances would justify this. Medical cards may also assured breast screening and diagnostic services, be issued to individual family members on this EUREF, evaluated the BreastCheck programme basis. Non-medical card holders, and people with at these centres. EUREF concluded that the pro- conditions not covered under the LTI, can use the gramme operated to a very high standard. The drugs payment scheme. Under this scheme, no overwhelming majority of women whose breast individual or family unit pays more than \78 per cancer is detected by BreastCheck will receive calendar month towards the cost of approved pre- their primary treatment and follow up at the Bre- scribed medicines. astCheck clinical unit for their region. Women also have an option of treatment and follow up at Question No. 331 answered with Question their regional designated centre for symptomatic No. 329. breast disease. BreastCheck organises its services to ensure integrated clinical pathways are in place Health Board Services. to effectively treat and care for women with bre- ast cancer which involves close linkages with the 332. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for symptomatic services. Health and Children if assistance will be given to BreastCheck is developing a similar model of a person (details supplied) in Dublin 5; and if this treatment and care as part of the national exten- will be made a priority issue. [19616/04] sion of the programme which will require a Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin): further two centres. The centre in the south, Responsibility for the provision of orthodontic which will provide services for women in County treatment to eligible persons in Dublin 5 rests Waterford, will be located at the South Infirmary 637 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 638

Hospital, Cork and the centre in the west will be the number of staff that do not intend to transfer; located at University College Hospital, Galway. the arrangements that have been made to accom- Both of these centres are at the planning stages. modate those who will not transfer; the position regarding the staff that have skills or experience Decentralisation Programme. which apply principally to the transport sector; 335. Mr. Grealish asked the Minister for and if he will make a statement on the matter. Transport if he will give a response on the [19065/04] enclosed query (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19534/04] Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): As there are no results available as yet from the cen- 349. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Trans- tral applications facility it is not possible to state port his views on the concerns of a person (details the number of staff in Bus E´ ireann who have supplied) in Dublin 7 regarding the proposed expressed an interest in relocation or those who decentralisation of the Bus E´ ireann head office have not. to Mitchelstown; and if he will make a statement Public servants who do not wish to relocate will on the matter. [19527/04] be assigned to alternative posts in Dublin. The Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): I pro- exact procedures that will apply will be dealt with pose to take Questions Nos. 335 and 349 together. as part of the implementation process and will be The process of managing the decentralisation discussed with the public service unions. applications programme is being organised through the central applications facility, CAF, 337. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for that is being run by the Civil Service and Local Transport the risk analysis and the cost benefit Appointments Commission. This facility, which is analysis which he has carried out or proposes to accessible on the Internet, has details of the jobs carry out in respect of decentralisation as it which have been identified for decentralisation affects his Department. [19089/04] and the locations to which they are going to move. Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): A risk The policy governing the decentralisation pro- analysis, as it affects my Department, is being gramme allows all civil and public servants to completed as part of my Department’s decentra- apply for a transfer to a decentralised provincial lisation implementation plan. No formal cost location and those who do so may state their pref- benefit analysis has been carried out. erence in respect of: internal transfers at their current grade to posts being decentralised in their 338. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for parent Department or organisation; and transfer Transport the average annual increase in salary at their current grade to posts in other Depart- costs, overtime and travel to, from and in the ments and organisations being decentralised as decentralised offices in the three years following part of the programme. decentralisation compared to these costs for Only employees of Bus E´ ireann may formally those business units in the three years preceding apply for a decentralised position in Bus E´ ireann. decentralisation, in respect of the last decentralis- At this point, anyone indicating a wish to transfer ation by his Department. [19104/04] to Mitchelstown is merely expressing a prefer- ence rather than making a firm application. The 339. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for mechanism for finalising transfers has not yet Transport the number of persons decentralised been completed and will be subject to further dis- and the full duration of the project, in respect of cussion with the public service unions. the last decentralisation by his Department; the The decentralisation programme will operate number of internal and external transfers which on an entirely voluntary basis. Those who do not were required to obtain the requisite number of wish to transfer to a decentralised location will persons decentralising; the amount of time neces- be assigned to alternative public service posts in sary to train decentralising persons and the per- Dublin and the procedures that will apply in such centage and duration of overlapping staff which cases will be the subject of discussions with the was required; and the additional costs for over- public service unions. time and travel and subsistence incurred. All change brings with it an element of risk. I [19119/04] am confident that with good planning and man- agement any risk will be reduced to the absolute Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): I pro- minimum. It is for this reason that all organis- pose to answer Questions Nos. 338 and 339 ations involved in the decentralisation pro- together. gramme have prepared implementation plans My Department has not been involved in any which will be refined and amended as the process decentralisation process to date. The Public moves forward. Enterprise (Alteration of Name of Department 336. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Trans- and Title of Minister) Order 2002, which came port the progress that has been made in regard to into operation on 19 June 2002, altered the name the proposed decentralisation of Bus E´ ireann; the of the Department of Public Enterprise to the number of staff that have volunteered to transfer; Department of Transport. 639 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 640

Public Transport. development plan 2005-11 have recently appeared in the press, as part of Fingal County 340. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Council’s public consultation on that draft Transport the number of new buses which were development plan. Comments or observations on purchased by Dublin Bus in each of the years the draft plan are invited until 23 August 2004. It 2000 to 2003; and the expected number of buses should be noted that in its introduction to the the company will be able to purchase in 2004. maps section of the draft development plan, Fin- [19138/04] gal County Council states that, “The maps give a Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): I under- graphic representation of the proposals of the stand from Dublin Bus that the number of new Plan, indicating land use zoning and other control buses purchased each year by the company is as standards together with various objectives of the follows: 2000, 225; 2001, 56; 2002, 53; 2003, 90. Council. They do not purport to be accurate sur- Dublin Bus has purchased 36 buses in 2004 and vey maps from which site dimensions or other the company has no plans to purchase any further survey data can be determined”. Moreover, the buses this year. final site of the proposed runway 10-28 is a matter for Aer Rianta and the planning authorities. Trans-European Networks. 343. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Trans- 341. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Trans- port further to Question No. 454 of 15 June 2004, port further to Question No. 162 of 14 October the number of landowners in County Clare, other 2003, the main conclusions reached by his than the landowner from whom the site was Department in respect of the European Com- acquired, affected by SI 205 of 1993; if these mission’s proposals of 1 October 2003; if the unsuspecting landowners will be informed of such Council of Ministers has considered these pro- fact and, arising from his reluctance to provide posals; and the outcome thereof to date. them with a copy map, each will be supplied with [19168/04] the relevant website details in order that they can Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): On 29 download copies of the map in question; the April 2004, the European Council of Ministers reason his Department failed to honour the sol- and the European Parliament adopted, through emn commitment given by Mr. Cosgrave to Mr. the co-decision procedure, a decision on revised Hawkins on 8 March 1950, particularly given that Community guidelines for the development of the amendment in question which was not put to trans-European transport networks. Ireland has a vote, was put down by the latter with particular had two specific priority projects: the Cork-Dub- reference to such potential landowners in County lin-Belfast road corridor and the Cork-Dublin- Clare; and if he will make a statement on the mat- Belfast rail corridor included in the list of priority ter. [19172/04] projects in the revised guidelines. In addition, Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): The Ireland has the possibility of submitting specific Irish Aviation Authority does not have any infor- maritime-related projects as part of the motorway mation about the number of landowners who own of the sea of western Europe priority project. land in the vicinity of the site in County Clare affected by SI 205 of 1993. However, the auth- Airport Development Projects. ority states that the owner of the land directly 342. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Trans- affected by that SI did receive a copy of the order, port if, further to Question No. 326 of 25 May including the map. As I indicated in my previous 2004, his attention has been drawn to the fact that reply, all of the three orders (SIs 284 of 1988, 114 this threshold is shown both on sheet No. 8 of the of 1989 and 205 of 1993), including their maps, Fingal County development plan of 1999 and on are available free of charge on the Attorney Gen- the maps forming part of the recently released eral’s website, under the link to the Irish Statute draft Fingal development plan 2005-11 as being Book. The website addresses for each of those some 250 metres west of the Kingston Cross orders are: For SI 284 of 1988 — http:// Road; his views on whether a major discrepancy www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI284Y1988.html; for thus exists between the Aer Rianta and the SI 114 of 1989 — http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ revised ERM maps on the one hand, and the Fin- ZZSI114Y1989.html; for SI 205 of 1993 — gal maps on the other; if he will clarify the precise http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI205Y1993.html. magnitude of a discrepancy which can only be 344. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Trans- described as astounding and inexplicable that has port if, further to Questions Nos. 111-16 of 27 left residents in large areas of north County Dub- February 2002, the protected area concept con- lin utterly perplexed and bewildered with respect tained in section 14 of the Air Navigation and to whether their lands or portions thereof are Transport Act 1950 was specifically enacted by within the existing red zones or the proposed the Houses of the Oireachtas for the very same public safety zones associated with proposed run- purpose; and if he will make a statement on the way 10-28; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19173/04] matter. [19171/04] Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): Notices Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): As I of the preparation of the draft Fingal County have indicated in earlier replies, Section 14 of the 641 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 642

Air Navigation and Transport Act 1950 The other proposal is for a major runway empowers the Minister for Transport or the Irish extension and the provision of enhanced airport Aviation Authority to make an order to declare infrastructure and navigational aids. The entire that a particular piece of land in the vicinity of project, if approved, could cost in the region of an aerodrome was to be a protected area, if the \30 million. Derry City Council has requested a unrestricted use of that land would interfere with joint funding arrangement between the two the navigation of aircraft. To date, section 14 administrations, as applied in the case of the earl- orders have been made on only three occasions, ier project. Officials from my Department are in 1988, 1989, and 1993, in each case dealing with participating in a steering group, comprising circular protected areas of 300 metres radius from officials from relevant departments and agencies the IAA’s DVOR-DME equipment at Rowles- in Northern Ireland and representatives from the town West, County Dublin; Kilgarriff West, local chamber of commerce. The steering group, Charlestown, County Mayo and Knockaun, Shan- which was established at the request of the Sec- non, County Clare. retary of State for Northern Ireland, will examine The High Court, in a judicial review case all aspects of the proposed development of the between Mr. Sean Liddy and the then Minister airport, including, the technical need for the pro- for Public Enterprise, the Irish Aviation Auth- posed runway extension, the current and pro- ority, Aer Rianta Teoranta, Ireland and the jected financial position of the airport company, Attorney General, ruled in February 2003 that the business case supporting the proposed capital the use of either section 14 orders or the planning investment and the wider issue of balanced econ- process is permissible for restricting development omic development for the entire north west in the vicinity of airports. region. The steering group has met three times in recent weeks and a report on findings and con- 345. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for clusions is expected to be finalised by the end of Transport if, further to Question No. 453 of 15 July 2004. June 2004, any of the numerous private but sig- nificantly smaller developments at each of the Decentralisation Programme. three State airports had the potential to breach any ICAO associated surface; and if he will make 347. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Trans- a statement on the matter. [19174/04] port the category of staff he has in mind for his proposed relocation of 200 Bus E´ ireann staff to Mitchelstown and their current location; the Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): The future prospects for staff who choose not to relo- question of objections to private developments at cate; and if he will make a statement on the mat- the State airports to which the Deputy refers, is ter. [19397/04] a matter between Aer Rianta, the Irish Aviation Authority, and the relevant planning authorities. Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): Categ- ories of posts to be relocated to Mitchelstown 346. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for include clerical officers, staff officers, executive Transport the discussions he has had recently officers and various technical and professional with his counterparts to resolve outstanding posts. These posts are located in Bus E´ ireann’s issues surrounding extension of the runway at head office. The future prospects for staff who Derry City Airport; and if he will make a state- choose not to relocate is outlined in the Minister ment on the matter. [19371/04] for Finance, Deputy McCreevy’s reply to Ques- tion No. 97 answered on 17 February 2004. Minister of State at the Department of Trans- port (Dr. McDaid): My Department is consider- Taxi Hardship Payments. ing two separate proposals concerning the run- way, and other infrastructural developments, at 348. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Trans- City of Derry Airport. The first proposal is for port if consideration will be given to the appli- a runway safety improvement project originally cation by a person (details supplied) in Dublin 12 approved in 1999. In the context of the pro- under the taxi hardship payment scheme in view gramme for peace and reconciliation in 1999, the of the financial circumstances; and if he will make Department paid \1.9 million towards safety- a statement on the matter. [19398/04] related improvements to the runway. The North- Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): Area ern Ireland authorities made a similar contri- Development Management Limited has been bution to the project. However, the project suf- engaged to administer and manage the imple- fered from cost increases arising from mentation of the taxi hardship payments scheme. environmental objections and various technical It is undertaking the processing and consideration problems. Derry City Council, the owner of the of applications under the scheme independently airport, is now seeking further assistance from of my Department which has no details of indi- both administrations to meet the additional, vidual applications made to Area Development unforeseen costs associated with the project. The Management under the scheme. Inquiries made Department is discussing this issue with counter- with Area Development Management reveal that parts in the Department for Regional Develop- an application was received from the person in ment in Northern Ireland. question on 1 April 2004. It was incomplete and 643 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 644

[Mr. Brennan.] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform a letter issued to the applicant on 5 April 2004 (Mr. McDowell): The central policy unit notices seeking clarification and requesting further infor- to which the Deputy refers provide general guid- mation. The same letter was sent to the applicant ance on the release of information sought outside again on 15 June 2004 requesting a response the terms of the Freedom of Information Act. As within 30 days. Area Development Management such, they have no statutory basis and are not has received no response to date. Further con- binding on departmental freedom of information sideration of the application cannot proceed until officers. In keeping with standard practice, my it receives the requested information. Department’s freedom of information unit in deciding to process the request in question in Question No. 349 answered with Question accordance with section 7 of the Act, had regard No. 335. to the terms of these guidelines. Any decision to process a freedom of information request under Driving Tests. the terms of section 7 of the Act does not prohibit 350. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for the release of the information sought outside the Transport if he will arrange for a person (details terms of the Act. This was confirmed to me in a supplied) in Dublin 12 to undertake the driving recent letter from the Information Commissioner test; and if he will make a statement on the mat- which was copied to the Deputy. ter. [19533/04] Asylum Applications. Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan): A driv- ing test will be arranged in due course for the 353. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for Justice, person concerned. Equality and Law Reform when a person (details supplied) in County Louth will be granted a green Ground Rents Abolition. card in view of the fact that he meets all criteria to hold such a card; and if he will make a state- 351. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for ment on the matter. [19023/04] Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he intends to take action regarding the ground rent legis- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform lation in view of the fact that some ground rent (Mr. McDowell): The person in question arrived landlords are demanding \60,000 from house- in the State in March 2000 and made an unsuc- holds following the sale of their property; and if cessful application for asylum. He subsequently he will make a statement on the ground rent married an Irish national in October 2001 and issue. [19032/04] applied for permission to remain in the State based on that marriage. This application is under Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform consideration and it is expected that it will be (Mr. McDowell): The Government legislation finalised shortly. programme which was published on 26 April 2004 makes provision for a Bill to abolish ground Asylum Applications. rents. Publication of the Bill is subject to the res- olution of possible constitutional and practical 354. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Justice, difficulties. The constitutional difficulties concern Equality and Law Reform the status of a person the respective rights of ground rent tenants and (details supplied) in County Wexford who has landlords while the practical difficulties concern resided here for four years. [19024/04] land law generally and in particular the land Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform registration system. (Mr. McDowell): The person referred to in the question, a national of the Democratic Republic Freedom of Information. of the Congo, was refused refugee status in the 352. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for State following consideration of her case by the Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his attention Office of the Refugee Applications Com- has been drawn to the central policy unit notices missioner and on appeal by the Refugee Appeals concerning the administration and handling of Tribunal. A notification under section 3(3)(a) of requests under the Freedom of Information Acts the Immigration Act 1999 issued to the person on which state that it is good freedom of information 10 October 2002 in which she was advised that practice, on receipt of a request, to consider the Minister had decided to refuse her a declar- whether the records sought are such that they can ation as a refugee and setting out the options now be released outside freedom of information and open to her, namely, to leave the State voluntarily that when this is so, the record should be offered before the Minister decided whether or not to to the requester outside of freedom of infor- make a deportation order in respect of her; to mation; if such central policy unit notices were consent to the making of a deportation order in adhered to by his Department in handling a respect of her; or to make written representations request made by Deputy Kenny in his request for to the Minister setting out reasons as to why she the minutes of meetings held with the masters of should be allowed to remain temporarily in the the maternity hospitals; if such directions were State. deviated from, the reason for so doing; and if he The case file in this matter must be examined will make a statement on the matter. [19022/04] having regard to the criteria set down in section 645 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 646

3(6) of the Immigration Act 1999 and section 5 major review of the Garda organisation struc- of the Refugee Act 1996 (Prohibition of tures under the strategic management initiative Refoulement). In this latter respect, refoulement programme of modernisation which looked in has been an issue in respect of DR Congo and detail at a range of areas within the organisation. consideration of the file has been postponed The Garda strategic management initiative imple- pending developments in this regard. It is noted mentation steering group’s final report, which is that the situation in that country is improving and available on my Department’s website, does not other EU member states have begun returning refer to the closure of any specific Garda station, persons there. I expect therefore that the case file but makes recommendations to assist policy-mak- will be submitted to me for a decision shortly. ing on the management and use of all available resources, including Garda stations. This report is 355. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Justice, under examination within my Department and I Equality and Law Reform the status of a person will give careful consideration to all of the steer- (details supplied) in County Wexford who has ing group’s recommendations. resided here for more than two years. [19025/04] Visa Applications. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The person in question arrived 357. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for in the State on 12 November 2001 and made an Justice, Equality and Law Reform if it is in order application for asylum. Her husband arrived on for a person (details supplied) to visit their ill 17 December 2001 and also made an asylum father in China and return safely to Ireland with- application. The following month, 13 January out any complication. [19060/04] 2002, the wife gave birth. Both withdrew their Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform asylum applications and applied for residency on (Mr. McDowell): I refer the Deputy to my reply the basis of parentage of that Irish-born child. to his Question No. 191 on 16 June 2004. I have Following the decision of the Supreme Court in nothing further to add. the cases of L and O, the separate procedure which then existed to enable persons to apply to Decentralisation Programme. reside in the State on the sole basis of parentage of an Irish-born child ended on 19 February 2003. 358. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Jus- The Government decided that the separate pro- tice, Equality and Law Reform the risk analysis cedure would not apply to cases which were out- and the cost benefit analysis which he has carried standing on that date. Many such cases are out- out or proposes to carry out in respect of decen- standing, including the case to which the Deputy tralisation as it affects his Department. refers. [19090/04] Since the persons in question do not have an 359. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Jus- alternative legal basis for remaining in this juris- tice, Equality and Law Reform the average diction the issue of permission to remain will be annual increase in salary costs, overtime and tra- considered — but only in the context of a minis- vel to, from and in the decentralised offices in the terial proposal to make a deportation order. In three years following decentralisation compared that context, a notification of a proposal to make to these costs for those business units in the three a deportation order will issue to the persons in years preceding decentralisation, in respect of the question and they will be given an opportunity to last decentralisation by his Department. make representations in that regard. If, in the [19105/04] light of those representations and the range of factors set out in section 3(6) of the Immigration 360. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Jus- Act 1999, the Minister decides not to make a tice, Equality and Law Reform the number of deportation order they will be given leave to persons decentralised and the full duration of the remain on a humanitarian basis. Due to the num- project, in respect of the last decentralisation by ber of such cases on hand I am unable to say at his Department; the number of internal and this stage when the file will be further examined. external transfers which were required to obtain the requisite number of persons decentralising; Garda Stations. the amount of time necessary to train decentralis- ing persons and the percentage and duration of 356. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Justice, overlapping staff which was required; and the Equality and Law Reform if there are plans to additional costs for overtime and travel and sub- close Cabra and Mountjoy Garda stations; and if sistence incurred. [19120/04] there is a reference to these stations in the report recently referred to by him. [19054/04] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Nos. 358 to 360, inclusive, together. (Mr. McDowell): The Garda authorities inform The agencies and organisations under the aegis me that there are no plans either to close Garda of my Department selected for decentralisation stations in Dublin metropolitan region or to have prepared and submitted implementation reduce their opening hours. The optimum use of plans to the implementation group appointed by Garda stations was considered as part of the my colleague the Minister for Finance. The plans 647 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 648

[Mr. McDowell.] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform incorporate specific risk assessments in the case (Mr. McDowell): I am sure the Deputy will of each agency due to decentralise and examines appreciate that I have no responsibility for the the best ways of ensuring maximum effectiveness death of the person concerned nor the circum- of services. The last decentralisation of my stances surrounding his death and it would, there- Department was completed in 2002 when the fore, be inappropriate for me to comment. Legal Aid Board relocated to Caherciveen, I have received some correspondence from the County Kerry. The decision to decentralise to Victims of the Legal Profession Society and in Caherciveen was announced in July 1999, follow- response to the correspondence, my office has ing the completion of an impact assessment outlined to them how persons who may feel report. An interim office was opened in July 2001, aggrieved at the actions of members of the legal the board’s new offices were occupied in January profession may have their complaints investi- 2002 and the final transfer of staff took place in gated. Several measures are in place to deal with February 2002. Thirty nine staff were complaints against solicitors. There are two com- decentralised to Caherciveen. There are also mittees which consider complaints against solici- three dual location posts where staff divide their tors, the registrar’s committee of the Law Society time between the Dublin and Caherciveen of Ireland and the disciplinary tribunal which is offices. Of the 39 staff in Caherciveen one was an appointed by the President of the High Court existing staff member who opted to decentralise; under section 16 of the Solicitors (Amendment) four transferred from the Department of Justice, Act 1994. The tribunal examines allegations of Equality and Law Reform and 22 transferred misconduct by solicitors and reports to the High from other Departments. The final 12 posts were Court. The registrar’s committee may determine filled by recruitment via the Civil Service complaints lodged directly to it by members of Commission. the public. The Law Society has appointed an It is not possible to provide accurate infor- independent adjudicator to deal with complaints mation on the amount of time necessary to train about the handling by the society of complaints decentralising persons as the amount of training against solicitors. He is Mr. Eamon Condon and time varied considerably, depending on the level his address for correspondence is 26-27, Upper of expertise and prior work experience of the Pembroke Street, Dublin 2. individuals involved and no specific records were The Solicitors (Amendment) Act 2002, the rel- maintained in this regard. It is also not possible evant provisions of which came into operation on to give an overall figure on the percentage and 1 January 2003 strengthened the disciplinary duration of overlapping staff which was required regime for solicitors in a number of respects. It as this varied greatly and in many instances doubled the size of the tribunal to cater for an depended on the work requirements of the Legal increased workload and the speedier processing Aid Board and the other Departments involved. of cases. The tribunal is also required to make a Detailed cost breakdowns for the business separate finding on each ground of alleged mis- units which decentralised are not available in the conduct. In addition, regard must be had to pre- format sought. However, the following table vious findings of misconduct by a solicitor when shows total salary, overtime and travel costs for imposing a sanction in a current case. The the board’s headquarters for the years in ques- maximum amount which a solicitor, in respect of tion. Staffing numbers increased from 44 to 53 whom there has been a finding of misconduct, from 2001, as recommended in the impact assess- may be ordered to pay to an aggrieved party or ment report. to the Law Society’s compensation fund has been increased from £5,000 to \15,000. There is a right Year Salary Overtime Travel of appeal to the High Court on all aspects of the Expenses Tribunal’s work. The Act also provides for rem- edies against solicitors who fail to co-operate \\\with investigations. 1999 1,112,939 35,099 25,933 In addition, the circumstances in which the Law 2000 1,098,533 41,584 20,605 Society may refuse to issue a practising certificate 2001 1,942,008 27,437 138,132 or impose conditions on a certificate are spelt out 2002 2,114,654 31,156 102,083 in more detail than before. The circumstances in 2003 2,068,011 4,431 59,103 which the society can send an investigator to inspect documents at a solicitor’s office are also extended. Legal Profession Complaints. Citizenship Applications. 361. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Jus- 362. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Jus- tice, Equality and Law Reform if his attention has tice, Equality and Law Reform further to Parlia- been drawn to the death of a person (details mentary Question No. 244 of 4 May 2004, the supplied) and the circumstances surrounding his position regarding the application for naturalis- death; if he has proposals to assist the victims of ation by a person (details supplied) in County the legal profession; and if he will make a state- Mayo. [19149/04] ment on the matter. [19130/04] 649 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 650

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform sons during 2004 in Tallaght, Dublin 24; and if he (Mr. McDowell): I advised the Deputy in my will make a statement on the matter. [19240/04] reply to Question No. 244 on 4 May 2004 that the application of the person concerned should be Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform finalised later this year. This is still the position. (Mr. McDowell): My Department funds three Garda youth diversion projects in the Tallaght Victims Commission. District, namely, the key to engaging youth, Killi- narden, Fettercairn and Glenshane; the Jobstown 363. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for action for youth and the youth enhancement in Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will meet Whitechurch projects. Funding of \154,000 has a person (details supplied) over the next few been allocated to the key to engaging youth pro- weeks regarding their case and before the protest ject to meet its anticipated expenditure in the cur- against the justice system gets out of hand. rent year. Interim payments for 2004 have been [19153/04] allocated to the Jobstown and Whitechurch pro- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform jects pending final examination of these projects’ (Mr. McDowell): I refer the Deputy to my pre- accounts. It is not envisaged that additional vious answer to Question No. 742 of 27 April Garda youth diversion projects will be estab- 2004. lished in the short term. However, the possibility of funding of further projects in the future in the Visa Applications. light of prevailing budgetary conditions will remain under review. 364. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Jus- tice, Equality and Law Reform the position in Prisoner Releases. relation to a visa application by a person (details supplied); if this can be dealt with in a speedy 367. Mr. Haughey asked the Minister for Jus- manner; and if he will make a statement on the tice, Equality and Law Reform if he will list the matter. [19157/04] various types of releases and transfers for which prisoners can apply; the procedures in this regard; Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and if he will make a statement on the matter. (Mr. McDowell): The visa application in ques- [19241/04] tion, received in my Department on 11 June 2004, was to enable the son of a non-EEA national Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform employed in the State under the work permit (Mr. McDowell): Prisoners may apply for a trans- scheme to join her. A worker employed under fer to any prison or place of detention within the this scheme may be joined by their spouse and State, providing they meet any age or other minor children after the worker has been in the requirements that may apply to the particular State for one year and has been offered a contract establishment. Temporary releases may be auth- for a further year. The worker must also be able orised for sentenced prisoners on humanitarian to fully support the family members in question grounds or for the purpose of rehabilitation without the need to have recourse to public under the provisions of the Criminal Justice Act funds. The application in question was refused as 1960. I have no powers to release remand pris- the supporting documentation did not show that oners who may be released only by order of the the worker was in a position fully to support her courts. Any remand prisoner who wishes to son. It is open to the applicant to appeal against obtain release should consult with his legal the refusal by writing to the visa appeals officer advisers. in my Department. Any appeal should include Applications for temporary release or inter-pri- payslips and P60 as evidence of income. son transfers are normally made through the pri- son governor. Decisions on requests for a such a Garda Recruitment. transfer are normally made by a senior prison ser- 365. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Justice, vice official. However, where such a request is Equality and Law Reform the progress which has made by a prisoner who is serving a sentence for been made in filling the vacancy (details a very serious offence, such as murder, and the supplied) at Moneygall Garda station; and if he transfer would involve a reduction in the security will make a statement on the matter. [19238/04] regime for the prisoner, it would normally be referred to me. Decisions on requests for tempor- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ary release may be made by me, or by a senior (Mr. McDowell): The Garda authorities respon- official acting on my behalf. sible for the detailed allocation of resources, The Transfer of Sentenced Persons Acts 1995 including personnel, inform me that a Garda is and 1997 provide a mechanism whereby non- due to be allocated to Moneygall Garda station nationals serving sentences in Ireland may apply on 30 June 2004. to serve the remainder of their sentences in their own countries and, similarly, Irish persons who Garda Youth Projects. are imprisoned overseas may apply to serve the 366. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Jus- remainder of their sentences in Ireland. Such tice, Equality and Law Reform his plans to fund transfers may be facilitated where the other coun- Garda projects which intervene with young per- try has ratified the Council of Europe Convention 651 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 652

[Mr. McDowell.] Registration of Title. on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons. Transfer 371. Mr. Ellis asked the Minister for Justice, requests under the convention are normally made Equality and Law Reform if his Department will by a prisoner through the governor of the prison complete land registry dealings on schedules in which he or she is detained. I decide on all such (details supplied) in County Leitrim. [19317/04] requests following the collation of a reports from various agencies setting out the consequences of Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform such a transfer. The consent of the three parties (Mr. McDowell): The Registrar of Titles has in the process is required prior to any transfer, informed me that the details supplied by him namely, the sentencing state, the receiving state refer to two Land Commission Schedule appli- and the sentenced person. cations, Schedule No. V0000WS093482V, which was lodged on 16 March 2000 and Schedule No. Visa Applications. V0000WS093484V, which was lodged on 11 April 2000. Land Commission Schedule applications 368. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Minister for Jus- are deemed to be registered as of the date of vest- tice, Equality and Law Reform the status of an ing which is prior to the date of lodgement of application for family reunification made two the documents in the Land Registry. Accordingly, months ago by a person (details supplied) in Dub- registration in the Land Registry of Land Com- lin 15; and if he will make a statement on the mission cases is afforded a lower priority than the matter. [19243/04] registration of other dealings. The applications Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform are receiving attention in the Land Registry and (Mr. McDowell): The refugee in question made will be completed as soon as possible. an application for family reunification in April 2004. The application was forwarded to the Refu- Residency Permits. gee Applications Commissioner for investigation 372. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Jus- as required under section 18 of the Refugee Act tice, Equality and Law Reform, further to Ques- 1996. Upon completion of this investigation by tion No. 381 of 9 March 2004, if persons (details the RAC a report will be prepared and forwarded supplied) in County Louth will be granted per- to my Department for decision. mission to remain here. [19382/04] Registration of Title. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform 369. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Justice, (Mr. McDowell): The wife arrived in the State on Equality and Law Reform when the dealings for 13 July 2002. She gave birth six days later, 19 July a person (details supplied) in County Mayo will 2002. She then made an application for asylum on be completed in the Land Registry Office. 22 August 2002. The husband arrived in the State [19244/04] in September 2002, accompanied by their then four year old son, and made an asylum appli- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform cation. They subsequently withdrew their asylum (Mr. McDowell): The Registrar of Titles informs applications and applied for residency on the me that this is an application for voluntary trans- parentage of the Irish child born. Following the fer which was lodged on 21 February 2002. Deal- decision of the Supreme Court in the cases of L& ing Number D2002SM002434D refers. A query O, the separate procedure which then existed to was issued to the lodging solicitor on 23 June enable persons to apply to reside in the State on 2004 and the application cannot proceed until this the sole basis of parentage of an Irish-born child query has been satisfactorily resolved. On receipt ended on 19 February 2003. The Government of a satisfactory reply, the matter will receive decided that the separate process would not apply further attention in the Land Registry. to cases which were outstanding on that date. There are a many such cases outstanding, includ- Criminal Prosecutions. ing the case to which the Deputy refers. 370. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, The persons concerned were informed on 3 Equality and Law Reform the number of persons June 2004, in accordance with section 3 of the charged regarding the illegal use of off-load dum- Immigration Act 1999 as amended, that it was pers in 2003 and to date in 2004; and if he will proposed to make a deportation order in their case. They were given the options of making rep- make a statement on the matter. [19269/04] resentations within 15 working days to the Mini- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform setting (Mr. McDowell): The Garda authorities have out reasons why they should be allowed to remain informed me that it is not possible to indicate the in the State, to voluntarily leave the State or to number of proceedings which apply to off-load consent to the making of a deportation order. dumpers as statistics are compiled based on Their case will be considered within the terms set offence type rather than in such a way as to dis- out in section 3(6) of the Immigration Act, 1999. tinguish between vehicle types found to have I expect the case to come before me for decision been used in an illegal manner. shortly. 653 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 654

373. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Justice, increase number of applications received by the Equality and Law Reform if an application for a immigration division of my Department of the residency visa by a person (details supplied) can type referred to by the Deputy. There were 156 be considered on humanitarian grounds; and if he in 2001, 271 in 2003, and 124 up to 31 May 2004. will make a statement on the matter. [19383/04] Applications of this type are dealt with on a strict chronological basis and are currently taking Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform approximately 12 months to process. The (Mr. McDowell): The immigration division of my resources allocated to process such applications Department has recently written to the sponsor depend on the prioritised work requirements of of the person referred to by the Deputy seeking the immigration division of my Department at documentation about this application. Upon any one time. receipt of the requested documentation a decision can be made on the case. Prisoner Transfers. 374. Mr. McGuinness asked the Minister for 375. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Justice, Justice, Equality and Law Reform if a decision Equality and Law Reform the number of admis- will be expedited in the case of a person (details sions from prisons to the Central Mental supplied) in County Kilkenny who has applied for Hospital, Dundrum, Dublin, in each year permission to stay in the State; the reason appli- between 1998 and 2004, inclusive of persons who cations such as this person’s which are straightfor- were certified clinically insane by prison doctors ward take up to 12 months to process; if he has a or by consultants from the Central Mental plan to deal with this delay; and if he will make a Hospital immediately prior to, or at the time of statement on the matter. [19384/04] their admission to the hospital. [19385/04] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The latest figures available to (Mr. McDowell): The person in question has me for offenders who transferred from prisons to been granted a further period of permission to the Central Mental Hospital are set out in a table remain in the State. There is a continuous as follows:

Year Total No. of Admissions Certifications Voluntary Total number of Prisoners involved

1998 No figures available No figures available No figures available No figures available 1999 434 100 334 N/A 2000 347 107 240 N/A 2001 231 136 95 126 2002 207 149 58 113 2003 305 259 46 122 2004 106 94 12 68 (up to 25 June)

Some offenders transferred to the Central Mental Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Hospital on more than one occasion during the (Mr. McDowell): My Department received a dec- year. laration of acceptance of Irish citizenship as post- nuptial citizenship on 2 June 2004 from the per- Visa Applications. son to whom the Deputy’s question refers. Such declarations take approximately eight months to 376. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Jus- process from the date of lodgement and it is tice, Equality and Law Reform when a visa will likely, therefore, that processing of the declar- issue in the case of a person (details supplied) in ation will be finalised in the early part of 2005. County Kildare; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19518/04] Prison Committals. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform 378. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, (Mr. McDowell): The immigration division of my Equality and Law Reform the number of persons Department has no record of a visa application in each of the past five years and to date in 2004 from the person referred to by the Deputy. who have been imprisoned arising from the non- payment of civil debts. [19530/04] Citizenship Applications. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform 377. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Jus- (Mr. McDowell): The information requested by tice, Equality and Law Reform when a post-nup- the Deputy is not readily available and the compi- tial citizenship application will be approved in the lation of these statistics would require a dispro- case of a person (details supplied) in County portionate and inordinate amount of staff time Kildare; and if he will make a statement on the and effort to prepare and could not be justified matter. [19521/04] in circumstances where there are other significant 655 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 656

[Mr. McDowell.] opments in the private child care sector. Area demands on resources. The Deputy may, Development Management Ltd., ADM, on however, be interested to know though that on 28 behalf of my Department, is carrying out an June 2004, there were only 11 persons in prison extensive review of the programme’s capital com- custody for debtor offences out of a total prison mitments to date, numbering more than 1,100 and population of 3,218. valued at \114 million, to ensure that grant com- mitments previously entered into will be realised. Garda Stations. Projects may be awaiting planning permission or 379. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Justice, the completion of tender processes before Equality and Law Reform if he will comment on reasonable assurance can be taken that they will the future of a Garda Station (details supplied) in proceed and, if they do not, the funding set aside Dublin 8. [19535/04] can be decommitted and made available to another project. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform In addition, my Department has recently (Mr. McDowell): The Garda authorities inform reviewed the different budget lines under the me that there are no plans either to close Garda equal opportunities child care programme, stations in the Dublin metropolitan region or to including the capital programme, to ensure that reduce their opening hours. The optimum use of the most effective use is made of all remaining Garda stations was considered as part of the funding in accordance with the programme’s major review of the Garda organisation struc- objectives. Some transfers between measures tures under the strategic management initiative were recommended and require the approval of programme of modernisation which looked in the regional assemblies. I expect this technical detail at a range of areas within the organisation. process will be completed shortly and will bring The Garda strategic management initiative imple- to at least \157 million the total allocation for mentation steering group’s final report, which is the capital development of child care under the available on my Department’s website, does not present equal opportunities child care pro- refer to the closure of any specific Garda station, gramme. This amount includes an element for the but makes recommendations to assist policy-mak- administration by ADM of the capital pro- ing on the management and use of all available gramme. At the same time, an extensive review resources, including Garda stations. This report is of child care provision on the ground has taken under examination within my Department and I place to identify obvious service gaps, the filling will give careful consideration to all of the steer- of which will be a priority using the remaining ing group’s recommendations. capital funding which amounts to about \35 million. Child Care Facilities. I intend to allocate the remaining capital fund- 380. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Justice, ing under this strand of the Government’s com- Equality and Law Reform if funding will be allo- mitments to child care to address the most cated to a community play group in County Sligo; immediate service gaps. As a result, ADM is if his attention has been drawn to the fact that in reviewing again all the projects in the pipeline on approximately 29 miles from Ballisodare to the the basis of geographical need, the range of ser- Mayo border there are two play schools and no vices being offered and the capacity of the groups other child care facilities; if funding will be sanc- to complete a project before the end of the pro- tioned; and if he will make a statement on the gramme. Those projects which best meet the cri- matter. [19581/04] teria will receive priority. The review process will Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform be repeated as necessary to maximise the benefits (Mr. McDowell): This group applied for a sub- deriving from this phase of the equal oppor- stantial capital grant of more than \1.7 million in tunities child care programme. ADM also con- February 2004. The equal opportunities child care ducts the day-to-day administration of the pro- programme 2000-06 is a seven year development gramme, and my Department has engaged it to programme, the progress of which was com- carry out thorough assessments against the pro- mented upon very favourably by the mid-term gramme criteria of all applications for grant evaluators of the regional operational pro- assistance under the programme, on my behalf. grammes and the National Development Plan ADM refers all large-scale capital projects such 2000-2006. Expenditure under the programme as this proposal to an independent external build- covers the period to end 2007 and must take place ing specialist to assess the suitability of the pro- in a planned manner, as must grant approvals to posal and its value for money. This application ensure that the programme can meet its financial for capital grant assistance is under appraisal. On commitments at all times. completion of the assessment process, all appli- There has been considerable demand from cations are considered by the programme community-based groups for capital grant assist- appraisal committee, chaired by my Department, ance under the programme and every county has which makes a funding recommendation to me benefited from significant grant commitments to before I make a final decision on the matter. provide new and enhanced community-based The review of the applications in the pipeline, child care facilities and to support capital devel- including the project in Enniscrone to which this 657 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 658 question refers, will be concluded as speedily as Environmental Work Schemes. possible to facilitate the development of 383. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for the additional child care places at the earliest oppor- Environment, Heritage and Local Government tunity and to ensure that the funding is drawn the position on the upgrading and refurbishing down in the planned manner I have described works being undertaken by Westmeath County before the end of 2007. The success of the present Council at Ennell Court Estate, Mullingar, strand of the programme and the need to con- County Westmeath; if a timetable has been set tinue to make child care available to support the out for the completion of the aforesaid works; needs of our still growing workforce will support and if he will make a statement on the matter. my case for ongoing capital and current funding [19051/04] from Government for this key sector. Should any Minister of State at the Department of the additional funding become available before the Environment, Heritage and Local Government end of the national development plan, the pro- (Mr. N. Ahern): Proposals for a pilot phase of gramme may again benefit from transfers. remedial works at Ennell Court, Mullingar, were recently submitted for approval to my Depart- Accidental Fires. ment by Westmeath County Council. These pro- 381. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for the posals are under examination and a decision on Environment, Heritage and Local Government the matter will be made shortly. the number of fires attributed to electrical causes 384. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for the Envir- since 2000; and if he will make a statement on the onment, Heritage and Local Government if fund- matter. [19078/04] ing was provided for environmental work in an Minister for the Environment, Heritage and estate (details supplied) in County Kildare after Local Government (Mr. Cullen): Information remedial work was completed by his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. supplied by the fire authorities to my Department [19062/04] on fire and emergency incidents attended by fire brigades indicate that some 1,488 fires in 2000, Minister of State at the Department of the 1,730 fires in 2001 and 1,264 fires in 2002 were Environment, Heritage and Local Government attributed to electrical causes. Complete infor- (Mr. N. Ahern): No proposals for environmental mation in respect of causes of fires in 2003 is not works at this location have been received in my yet available. Detailed statistics for 2000-02 are Department. available on my Department’s website, www.envi- ron.ie, and in the Oireachtas Library. Decentralisation Programme.

Water and Sewerage Schemes. 385. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government 382. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for the the risk analysis and the cost benefit analysis Environment, Heritage and Local Government which he has carried out or proposes to carry out the status of the application for a new scheme at in respect of decentralisation as it affects his Castletown-Geoghegan, Mullingar, County Department. [19091/04] Westmeath; if he will take steps to ensure that Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the maximum number of persons is facilitated by Local Government (Mr. Cullen): My Depart- the installation of such scheme; and if he will ment’s decentralisation implementation plan, make a statement on the matter. [19050/04] which has been submitted to the decentralisation Minister for the Environment, Heritage and implementation group, includes an initial assess- Local Government (Mr. Cullen): Tenders have ment of the risks and risk mitigation strategies been invited from shortlisted contractors for the relating to the decentralisation programme. Castletown-Geoghegan sewerage scheme which These strategies will be further developed during is being advanced under a pilot programme being the implementation of the programme. undertaken by the national rural water monitor- 386. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for the ing committee to test a range of new, small scale Environment, Heritage and Local Government waste water collection and treatment systems. the average annual increase in salary costs, over- One objective of the pilot programme is to time and travel to, from and in the decentralised explore the potential for group sewerage schemes offices in the three years following decentralis- to extend domestic wastewater services to house- ation compared to these costs for those business holds outside the immediate catchments of the units in the three years preceding decentralis- new collection systems. The collection systems ation, in respect of the last decentralisation by his are, accordingly, initially confined to the core Department. [19106/04] areas of each of the locations involved. However, 387. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for the sufficient treatment capacity will be provided in Environment, Heritage and Local Government each case to accommodate all households that the number of persons decentralised and the full may eventually be served by these schemes. duration of the project, in respect of the last 659 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 660

[Mr. R. Bruton.] compensation issues on special areas of conser- decentralisation by his Department; the number vation and other designated areas, including of internal and external transfers which were issues specific to the Shannon callows. The required to obtain the requisite number of per- present position on these matters is expected to sons decentralising; the amount of time necessary be considered further at today’s meeting. to train decentralising persons and the percentage and duration of overlapping staff which was National Parks. required; and the additional costs for overtime 389. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for and travel and subsistence incurred. [19121/04] the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- ment when a vacancy (details supplied) in County Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Donegal will be filled; and if he will make a state- Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I propose to ment on the matter. [19144/04] take Questions Nos. 386 and 387 together. The last decentralisation programme directly Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local affecting my Department was announced in April Government (Mr. Cullen): The Civil Service and 1987 and involved the transfer of a number of Local Appointments Commissioners were sections to Ballina. The transfer of 115 staff took requested some months ago by my Department place in November 1989. to hold a public competition to fill this and other The additional information sought is not read- conservation ranger vacancies in the national ily available and its compilation would involve a parks and wildlife service of the Department. disproportionate amount of time and work. While the commissioners exercise this function independently, they have been asked to expedite Special Areas of Conservation. the matter. 388. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Water and Sewerage Schemes. the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- ment the reason agreement has not been reached 390. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for the Envir- with the farming community in the Shannon cal- onment, Heritage and Local Government if the lows area of counties Galway and Offaly concern- funding has been provided to Mayo County ing compensation for a huge loss of income due Council for the construction of the Srah to West- to areas designated as special areas of conser- port water scheme extension; and when works vation and other such designations; and if he will will commence on this project. [19256/04] make a statement on the matter. [19137/04] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and 394. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for the Local Government (Mr. Cullen): The extension Environment, Heritage and Local Government if of the Lough Mask regional water supply scheme further to Parliamentary Question No. 797 of 27 from Srah to Westport is included in my Depart- April 2004, the progress to date on the matter; ment’s water services investment programme the date and agenda of the last meeting; when he 2004-2006 to commence construction in 2005 at intends to hold a further meeting; and if he will an estimated cost of \12.7 million. I approved the make a statement on the matter. [19323/04] design report for the scheme earlier this month and my Department is now awaiting the sub- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and mission of contract documents by Mayo County Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I propose to Council. take Questions Nos. 388 and 394 together. Outstanding issues on the Shannon callows are Register of Electors. being addressed within the wider discussions under Sustaining Progress on the review of the 391. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for the 1997 habitats regulations. Following the reply to Environment, Heritage and Local Government if Question No. 797 of 27 April 2004, the meeting a person born in Northern Ireland and therefore referred to therein took place on 11 May. While a British citizen but resident here must take out it was hoped that agreement would be reached on Irish citizenship before they may vote in a refer- all outstanding issues at that meeting, this did not endum; and if he will make a statement on the prove possible. A further meeting on the review matter. [19257/04] under Sustaining Progress is scheduled for today, Minister for the Environment, Heritage and 29 June 2004. Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I refer to the In the meantime the revised rural environment reply to Questions Nos. 258, 266, 267 and 268 of protection scheme, REPS 3, has been introduced 22 June 2004. Under the Constitution, the right to by the Department of Agriculture and Food, and vote at a referendum is confined to Irish citizens. includes provisions, of particular relevance to the Shannon callows, concerning corncrake con- Local Authority Funding. servation. Further consultations have taken place 392. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for the between officials from my Department and from Environment, Heritage and Local Government the Department of Agriculture and Food and further to Parliamentary Question No. 188 of 3 representatives of the farming organisations on June 2004, if he will sanction the raising of a loan; 661 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 662 and if he will make a statement on the matter. consultation between the Department of the [19259/04] Environment and the Department of Agriculture and Food in the matter, supported by Teagasc. Minister of State at the Department of the While the directive provides for a general limit Environment, Heritage and Local Government of 170 kg of organic nitrogen for the land spread- (Mr. N. Ahern): My Department has recently ing of livestock manure, it was a key objective conveyed sanction to this loan, in an amount of of the Irish authorities that the directive should \1.25 million. incorporate a mechanism whereby higher Recycling Policy. amounts could be allowed where these were justi- fied. This objective was achieved and the mechan- 393. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- ism is provided by the derogation procedure set ster for the Environment, Heritage and Local out in Annex III of the directive, which provides Government if he has received the necessary for higher land spreading limits based on speci- information from Kerry County Council to pro- fied criteria. vide for a recycling centre in Dingle, County Kerry; if so, if approval has been granted for this Local Authority Housing. centre; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19261/04] 397. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Minister for the Environment, Heritage and when funding will be made available to improve Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I refer to the a local authority house at a location (details reply to Question No. 413 of 2 March 2004. No supplied) in County Limerick. [19369/04] further information has since been received from Kerry County Council. The application will be Minister of State at the Department of the further considered when the information Environment, Heritage and Local Government requested is provided. (Mr. N. Ahern): My Department has not received a proposal from Limerick County Council for Question No. 394 answered with Question improvement works to a local authority house in No. 388. this area.

Heritage Sites. Grant Payments. 395. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for 398. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for the the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- Environment, Heritage and Local Government if ment when it is proposed to have the Portumna his Department will approve funding for a sub- Castle Project, Portumna, County Galway, com- mission made by Roscommon County Council 12 pleted; if the completed building will contain a months ago to address flood prone roads within library as has been proposed by local interests the county; and if he will make a statement on over recent years; and if he will make a statement the matter. [19376/04] on the matter. [19367/04] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Local Government (Mr. Cullen): No such sub- Government (Mr. Cullen): A capital improve- mission has been made to my Department by ment project at Portumna Castle was completed Roscommon County Council within the time per- in 2003 at a cost of \253,000. No further capital iod mentioned in the question. In general, the improvement works are scheduled to be com- maintenance and improvement of non-national menced at the castle at this time. roads is a matter for the relevant local authority to be funded from its own resources sup- EU Directives. plemented by State grants. The initial selection of works to be funded under the various grant 396. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for the categories is also a matter for local authorities. Environment, Heritage and Local Government In 2004, discretionary maintenance and the input Irish officials had into the research prior improvement grants of \1.087 million and to the framing of the Nitrates Directive. \920,000 respectively have been allocated to Ros- [19368/04] common County Council. These grants are Minister for the Environment, Heritage and intended to cover, inter alia, contingencies arising Local Government (Mr. Cullen): Council Direc- from flooding, storm damage and other severe tive 91/676/EEC concerning the protection of weather conditions. My Department’s Memor- waters against pollution caused by nitrates from andum on Grants for Non-National Roads states agricultural sources was unanimously adopted by that the cost of remedial works necessitated by the Council of Ministers on 12 December 1991. such conditions must be met from local auth- The initial proposals brought forward by the orities’ own resources and discretionary grants European Commission for this directive were and that local authorities should set aside contin- based on research carried out by or on behalf of gency sums from these resources to finance such the Commission. Irish authorities were aware of works. all available research and participated fully in the My Department is also prepared to consider development of the proposals. There was close sympathetically any request from local authorities 663 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 664

[Mr. Cullen.] CEN Implementation Committee to adjust their multi-annual restoration pro- Change Management Network grammes to prioritise work necessitated by flood CHP Policy Group damage to particular roads or to carry out works Cleaner Greener Production Working Group to prevent future flooding. Cohesion Fund Monitoring Committee Committee for Public Management Research Water and Sewerage Schemes. Committee on Integrated Transport Policy Committee to Monitor the 3% Target for the Employ- 399. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for the ment of People with Disabilities in the Public Sector Environment, Heritage and Local Government if Construction and Safety Partnership funding will be approved for a sewerage scheme Co-Ordination Group on Prisoner Reintegration (details supplied); and if he will make a statement Core Pay User Group on the matter. [19378/04] Cross Compliance Group Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Crosscutting Team on the NSS Land use and Integrated Local Government (Mr Cullen): I refer to the Urban Transport reply to Question No. 209 of 31 March 2004. Cross-Departmental Group on Interoperability Further information requested from Roscom- Cross-Departmental Review of Expenditure on Roads Safety Steering Committee mon County Council in the meantime, which was Cross-Departmental Team on Infrastructure, Housing received in my Department in May, is under con- and Public Private Partnership sideration and the matter is being dealt with as Cycle Forum quickly as possible. Decentralisation Liaison Officers Network Departmental Liaison Officers Group for the Sustaining Departmental Bodies. Progress Partnership Committee 400. Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for the Donegal Heritage Forum Environment, Heritage and Local Government E-Cabinet Stakeholders Group the number of meetings of each interdepartmen- E-Cabinet Technical Group tal committee or body on which his Department Employment and Human Resource Development OP is represented; the frequency and location of its Monitoring Committee Environment and Health Inter-Departmental Working meetings; the locations at which it is intended Group these meetings will take place after decentralis- E-Procurement Network ation; and if he will make a statement on the mat- Equal Community Initiative Monitoring Committee ter. [19418/04] Equal Opportunities and Social Inclusion Co-Ordinat- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and ing Committee Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I refer to the ESIOP Monitoring Committee reply to Question No. 218 of 20 May 2004, which E-Strategy Group of Secretaries General set out detailed information regarding interde- Expert Group on Farm Structures partmental committees and bodies under my FAPRI Ireland Partnership Department’s aegis. FA´ S Community Employment Monitoring Committee Officials of my Department also serve on a FA´ S Construction Industry Group range of interdepartmental committees and FA´ S Expert Group on Future Skills Needs groups operating under the auspices of other FA´ S Roads Training Steering Group Departments and bodies. Details of these com- FA´ S Training Course Development mittees are listed at Table A. Lists of the number, Fixed Charges Processing System Overarching Group frequency and duration of such meetings as have Freedom of Information Civil Service User Network already taken place are not readily available and Freedom of Information Inter-Departmental Working the compilation of these would require a dispro- Group portionate allocation of staff resources. It is not Funding Review Group for Local Authority Veterinary Service possible to predict the pattern of meetings for Garda Fixed Charges Processing System (FCPS) Work- interdepartmental groups into the future. ing Group Name of Committee GCC Services and Supplies Sub-Group Administrative Officer Exchange Programme Review Genetically Modified Crops Inter-Departmental Work- Group ing Group Advisory Group on the Conservation of Agricultural Geological Survey of Ireland Consultative Committee Genetic Resources Government Construction Contract Committee Assistant Secretaries E-Strategy Implementation Group Government Liaison Committee — Digital Hub Project Bio-Energy Strategy Group Government Taskforce on Emergency Planning British-Irish Council Working Group Greater Dublin Area Travel Demand Study Steering Bus Priority Measures Group Cabinet Committee on Asylum Seekers Green Tax Group Cabinet Sub-Committee on Infrastructure and Housing GSI Landslides Working Group and Public private Partnership High Level Group on Regulatory Reform CAP Rural Development Plan Monitoring Committee High Level Group on Road Safety Carlow Heritage Forum High Level Group on Traveller Issues CCMA Roads and Transportation Committee HSA Construction Advisory Committee 665 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 666

HSA Dangerous Substances Advisory Committee National Monitoring Committee for the RAPID Human Resources Management Systems User Group Programme ICT Managers Framework National Monitoring Committee on the BMW Regional Operation Programme ICT Managers Sub-Group on Recruitment/Retention of ICT Staff National Monitoring Committee on the EU Urban II Community Initiative Implementation Group of Secretary Generals National Monitoring Committee on the S&E Regional Industry and Climate Change Group Operation Programme Informal Public Private Partnership Advisory Group National Monitoring Committee on the Social Econ- Inter-Departmental Committee on Proposed Inter- omy Programme national Centre for Local & Regional Development National Roads Authority Technical Advisory Group Inter-Departmental Committee on Railway Emergency National Steering Committee on Violence against Planning Women Inter-Departmental Co-Ordinating Committee on EU National Waymarked Ways Advisory Committee Affairs National Youth Work Advisory Committee Inter-Departmental Freedom of Information Statistics Group Native Woodlands Committee NDP/CSF Monitoring Committee Inter-Departmental Freedom of Information Working Group North-South Co-ordinators Working Group Inter-Departmental Group on Drugs NSAI Environmental Standards Consultative Committee Inter-Departmental Group on the Needs of Older People OECD Inter-Departmental Committee Inter-Departmental Public Art Co-ordination Group Offaly Heritage Forum Inter-Departmental Public Private Partnership OPW Flood Policy Review Group Committee Personnel Officers Network Inter-Departmental Working Group on Draft EU Direc- Plenary Group on Sustaining Progress tives on Mutual Recognition of Professional Qualifications PMDS Network Inter-Departmental Working Group on Draft EU Direc- Productive Sector OP Monitoring Committee tives on Services in the Internal Market QCS Officer Network Inter-Departmental Working Group on Emergency QCS Working Group Planning Regional Operational Programmes Monitoring Inter-Departmental Working Group to consider the Committee Recommendations of the Task Force on the Policy regard- Renewable Energy Development Group ing Emigrants Review Group on Childcare (Pre-School) Services and Irish Expert Body on Fluoride and Health Regulations 1996 and Amendment Regulations 1997 Kildare Heritage Forum Review of the Community and Local Development Legal Quarter Steering Group Schemes Group Leitrim Heritage Forum Roads Standards Committee Level Crossing Working Group Science and Technology Inter-Departmental Committee Lisbon Group Senior Officials Group on Social Inclusion Local Authority Swimming Pool Programme Expendi- Senior Officials Group on Social Inclusion and Health ture Review Group Senior Officials Group on Social Inclusion Sub Group Management Committee for Common Systems in on Expenditure Accounts Branches Shellfish Water Directive Working Group on metals and Management Committee for the Irish Flood Studies organo-halogenated substances Update Sligo Heritage Forum Management Information Framework Consultative Social Inclusion Consultative Group Committee Social Partners Group on Rent Supplement Management Information Framework Project Manage- State Aids Co-ordinating Committee ment Group Sub-Group on Cryptosporidium of the Scientific Advis- Metrication of Speed Limits Review and Implemen- ory Committee of the NDSC tation Group Sustaining Progress Affordable Housing Initiative Con- Modern Biotechnology Inter-Departmental Group tact Group Monitoring Committee on Implementation of Recom- TL 226 — Road Equipment mendations of the Task Force on the Travelling Training and Development Committee Community* Training Officers Network Monitoring Committee on the Programme for Peace and Reconciliation Utilities Group — Co-ordinating the re-instatement of Roads following Trench Work (DTO) Mullarkey Report Implementation Group VELO 2005 Technical Committee (DTO) National Advisory Committee on GMOs Water Framework Directive — Hydrology Working National Anti-Poverty Strategy — Technical Advisory Group Group Westmeath Heritage Forum National Assessment Committee on Young Peoples Facilities & Services Fund Wexford Heritage Forum National Consultative Committee on Racism and Inter- WFD National Co-ordination Committee Culturalism WFD Technical Co-ordination Group (Lead by EPA) National Drugs Strategy Team on Homelessness and plus Various Associated Working Groups Drugs Wicklow Heritage Forum National Flood Hazard Mapping Stakeholders Steering Woodlands of Ireland Steering Group Committee Committee Woodlands of Ireland Technical Advisory Group 667 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 668

[Mr. Cullen.] Ballymore Eustace, County Kildare; and if he will Working Group on Flooding and Hydrology make a statement on the matter. [19547/04] Working Group on Pre-cast Concrete Structures Code of practice Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Working Group on Professional Indemnity Insurance Local Government (Mr. Cullen): I understand (Construction) that Kildare County Council’s proposals to pro- Working Group on the National Anti Poverty Strategy (NAPs) and Health vide sewerage facilities in Ballymore Eustace under the serviced land initiative are in abeyance Working Group to Discuss Public Safety Zones at Airports because the proposed residential development to Youth Homeless Strategy Monitoring Committee be served by the scheme is not proceeding. No other proposals in respect of Ballymore Eustace Emergency Services. were included in the wastewater infrastructure requirements identified by Kildare County Coun- 401. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for the Envir- cil in November 2003 in response to my Depart- onment, Heritage and Local Government if the ment’s request to all local authorities to under- CAMP-WEST facility is operational at present; take fresh assessments of the needs for capital and if he will make a statement on the matter. water services works in their areas and to priorit- [19419/04] ise their proposals on the basis of the assess- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and ments. The priority lists were taken into account Local Government (Mr. Cullen): Mayo County in the framing of the Water Services Investment Council is acting as management authority for the Programme 2004-2006 published in May 2004. In CAMP-WEST project. My Department under- the absence of a prioritised proposal for Bally- stands that the project is not yet operational but more Eustace no provision has been made for it that the council intends to bring it into operation in the programme. as soon as possible. Election Management System. Water and Sewerage Schemes. 404. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for the 402. Mr. O´ Fearghaı´l asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he will introduce necessary legislative changes to his Department has received submissions from ensure that persons struck down by illness may Kildare County Council in regard to the provision more easily obtain a postal ballot, for example, a of a new sewerage treatment system for Rathan- measure whereby persons can be issued with a gan, County Kildare; if his Department proposes postal ballot if they decide to apply for same one to fund this project; and if he will make a state- month before an election; and if he will make a ment on the matter. [19517/04] statement on the matter. [19549/04] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Cullen): In January 2001, Local Government (Mr. Cullen): Electors with a my Department approved Kildare County Coun- physical illness or disability who are eligible for, cil’s application for funding for a proposed sewer- but not included in, the postal voters list may age scheme at Rathangan under the serviced land apply for entry in the supplement to the list which initiative. The council subsequently requested the is published prior to each election and refer- inclusion of the scheme as a major capital project endum. While an application can be made at any in the water services investment programme time, the latest date for receipt of supplement where it would attract a higher level of Depart- applications by registration authorities before a mental funding. poll is two days after the date of dissolution of The proposal was ranked fourth in the list of the Da´il at a general election or two days after wastewater schemes submitted by Kildare County the date of the order appointing polling day at a Council in November 2003 in response to my presidential, European or local election or a ref- Department’s request to all local authorities to erendum. I have no proposals to amend these undertake fresh assessments of the needs for arrangements, which allow time for any necessary capital water services works in their areas and to checking and validation of applications. prioritise their proposals on the basis of the assessments. The priority lists were taken into Litter Pollution. account in the framing of the Water Services 405. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for the Investment Programme 2004-2006 published in Environment, Heritage and Local Government if May 2004. In view of the priority afforded to the his attention has been drawn to the fact that there scheme by the council, it has not been possible to are very few prosecutions for dog dirt offences; if include it in the programme. However, the he intends to change legislation to deal with this approval of the scheme under the serviced land problem; and if he will make a statement on the initiative remains in place. matter. [19550/04] 403. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for the Envir- Minister of State at the Department of the onment, Heritage and Local Government the Environment, Heritage and Local Government position regarding a new sewerage scheme for (Mr. Gallagher): Local authorities submit statis- 669 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 670 tics on their enforcement of the Litter Pollution carried out or proposes to carry out in respect of Acts 1997 to 2003 to my Department every six decentralisation as it affects his Department. months; these figures refer to all prosecutions [19092/04] taken and are not broken down according to specific offences. These data have been made Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht ´ ´ available to the Oireachtas Library. Primary Affairs (Eamon O Cuı´v): As stated in my reply responsibility for enforcement of the litter laws, to Questions Nos. 277 and 280 of 2 June 2004, my including section 22 of the Litter Pollution Act Department has carried out an initial examin- 1997, which relates to dog fouling, rests with the ation of corporate risks of decentralisation, hav- local authorities. There are no proposals to ing regard to the risk categories identified at change the law in this regard. paragraph 6.31 in the Mullarkey report. A more detailed risk assessment is currently underway Local Authority Funding. within divisions in my Department. It is not pro- posed to carry out a cost benefit analysis in my 406. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for the Department. Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he will allocate funding to Sligo County Council 409. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for to ensure that it can expand its services at Sligo Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the Fire Station to allow storage facilities for the average annual increase in salary costs, overtime Sligo sub aqua search and rescue team; when and travel to, from and in the decentralised money will be sanctioned; the amount that will be offices in the three years following decentralis- granted; and if he will make a statement on the ation compared to these costs for those business matter. [19580/04] units in the three years preceding decentralis- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and ation, in respect of the last decentralisation by his Local Government (Mr. Cullen): No proposal in Department. [19107/04] this matter has been made to my Department by 410. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Sligo County Council. Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the number of persons decentralised and the full dur- National Drugs Strategy. ation of the project, in respect of the last decen- 407. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for tralisation by his Department; the number of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he internal and external transfers which were has studied the report, Heroin — The Mental required to obtain the requisite number of per- Roof Over Your Head, commissioned by Tal- sons decentralising; the amount of time necessary laght homeless advice unit and funded by the to train decentralising persons and the percentage National Advisory Committee on Drugs; if his and duration of overlapping staff which was attention has been drawn to the important recom- required; and the additional costs for overtime mendations made in this report and the need for and travel and subsistence incurred. [19122/04] action; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19057/04] Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuıv): I propose to take Ques- Minister of State at the Department of Com- ´ tions Nos. 409 and 410 together. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. Ahern): As the Deputy is aware, this report was I refer the Deputy to my reply to Question No. funded as part of the community grants research 513 of 24 February 2004. In 1980 the Gaeltacht scheme which is an initiative of the National division of my Department was decentralised to Advisory Committee on Drugs, NACD, which Na Forbacha, County Galway, where the number operates under the aegis of my Department. Pro- of staff now employed is 46. My Department in jects under this scheme primarily examine local its present format was established in June 2002. drugs related issues. The detailed records sought by the Deputy are I will be examining the report both from a not readily available, given the passage of time drugs perspective and also in my capacity as Mini- and the various changes of departmental func- ster of State in the Department of Environment, tions since 1980. Heritage and Local Government with responsi- bility for housing. The director of the housing Irish Language. agency attended the launch of the report on 21 411. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Com- June and commented on a number of the recom- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the progress mendations. which has been made during Ireland’s EU Presi- The NACD intends to publish a summary of dency in regard to having Irish recognised as an the projects under this scheme in September. official EU language; if he expects that Irish will be recognised as an official EU language within Decentralisation Programme. the lifetime of the Government, in view of the 408. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for fact that it is a commitment in the programme for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the risk Government; and if he will make a statement on analysis and the cost benefit analysis which he has the matter. [19135/04] 671 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 672

412. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs further to munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the progress Question No. 288 of 22 June 2004 when his next which has been made during Ireland’s EU Presi- scheduled meeting with Minister Angela Smith dency in regard to having Irish recognised as an MP will take place; if the proposed decentralis- official EU language; if he expects that Irish will ation of Foras na Gaeilge will be on the agenda; be recognised as an official EU language within and if he will make a statement on the matter. the lifetime of the Government, in view of the [19266/04] fact that it is a commitment in the programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht ´ ´ the matter. [19136/04] Affairs (Eamon O Cuı´v): As I outlined in my response to Question No. 288 of 22 June 2004, Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht progress on the proposed decentralisation of staff ´ Affairs (E´ amon O Cuı´v): I propose to take Ques- of Foras na Gaeilge to Gaoth Dobhair, County tions Nos. 411 and 412 together. Donegal, is subject to and awaits the agreement I refer the Deputies to the reply given to of the North-South Ministerial Council. Priority Question No. 1 on 3 June 2004. As indi- As outlined previously, I met Minister Angela cated in that reply, the working group set up by Smith MP on 12 May and we agreed to meet Government to examine this issue has now again. Arrangements to this end have yet to be reported. The report is being examined by rel- finalised. In the meantime, my Department is in evant Ministers and I expect the issue will be regular contact with the Department of Culture, brought formally to Government in the near Arts and Leisure to progress a range of matters future. of mutual interest. Proposed Legislation. Grant Payments. 413. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs when the 415. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Com- legislation transferring to Government the func- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the position tion of disbursing the funds in the dormant regarding an application by an organisation accounts fund for the independent Dormant (details supplied) for funding to provide com- Accounts Disbursement Board will be published; puter tuition; and if he will make a statement on and if he will make a statement on the matter. the matter. [19464/04] [19265/04] Minister of State at the Department of Com- Minister of State at the Department of Com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. Ahern): My Department provides support by way Ahern): The Dormant Accounts (Amendment) of a scheme of grants to locally-based voluntary Bill 2004 was published last Thursday, 24 June and community groups with a focus on tackling 2004. This fulfils a commitment given by Govern- poverty and disadvantage. The scheme was ment on 19 December last, following its review of advertised on 29 April with a closing date of 31 arrangements for dormant accounts funding. At May. Assessment of applications is under-way in that time, the Government committed to main- my Department. All applications received, taining an open, transparent and accountable pro- including the application in question, have been cess for dealing with applications for dormant acknowledged and applicants will be advised of accounts funding. the outcome of their applications on completion These commitments have been honoured in the of the assessments. draft legislation in the following ways: the objec- tives of the disbursements scheme will remain Social Welfare Benefits. unchanged; disbursements will continue to be 416. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Social within the framework of objectives and priorities set out in the dormant accounts disbursements and Family Affairs if the hours of free travel will plan; application processes for dormant accounts be extended to facilitate persons who are funding will be transparent and publicised; required to attend early morning hospital decisions on disbursements will be made and pub- appointments at 9 a.m.; and if she will make a licised by Government; appropriate arrange- statement on the matter. [19055/04] ments will be put in place so that the spend from Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mary the dormant accounts fund is clearly separate and Coughlan): The free travel scheme provides free additional; and the future role of the board will travel on the main public and private transport focus on preparation of the disbursements plan, services for those eligible under the scheme. reviewing progress in achieving objectives and These include road, rail and ferry services pro- assessing the additionality and impact of spend. vided by semi-State companies such as Bus A´ tha The Bill will be debated in the Seanad this Cliath, Bus E´ ireann and Iarnro´ dE´ ireann, as well week. as services provided by more than 80 private transport operators. The underlying feature of Decentralisation Programme. the scheme is the use of spare capacity on these 414. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Com- transport services. 673 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 674

Time restrictions have been a feature of the in the programme over the coming months. free travel scheme since its inception. The central Details of the costs which will be involved will be issue in regard to time restrictions is that of a matter for discussion with the Department of capacity constraints and the pressure on the Finance in the context of the overall programme transport system from commuters travelling to and in the Estimates process but in my view the and from work and school in the morning and long-term benefits of the programme will far out- evening. However, time restrictions do not apply weigh the short-term costs which will be involved. in the case of people with learning disabilities, Following decentralisation, the social welfare people attending long-term rehabilitation courses appeals office will continue to provide an inde- or certain work experience programmes and cer- pendent adjudication service to the public on all tain other people with disabilities. These people scheme entitlement decisions made in my are issued with an unrestricted free travel pass, Department. The question as to where this office which enables them to travel during the normally should be located was given careful consideration restricted travel times. Also, there are no peak as part of the decentralisation planning process. time travel restrictions on DART, suburban rail Following this analysis, while it is my intention to services, and on services provided by private locate the appeals office headquarters in transport operators in other parts of the country. Drogheda, I do not agree that this will impact on In addition, free travel pass holders will be able the independence and impartiality of the office to travel free of charge on Luas at all times. and, in that regard, appropriate accommodation Any general lifting of the existing time restric- arrangements will be made to ensure that the tions could cause capacity problems for transport necessary degree of separation is applied. Fur- operators. In exceptional circumstances, where thermore, a comprehensive training and support hospital appointments cannot be arranged out of programme will be put in place to redress any loss peak travel time, my Department can issue a tem- in staff experience arising from the relocation porary unrestricted free travel pass. Requests for programme. such passes are considered on a case-by-case basis 418. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for and passes are only granted in exceptional cir- Social and Family Affairs the average annual cumstances. increase in salary costs, overtime and travel to, from and in the decentralised offices in the three Decentralisation Programme. years following decentralisation compared to 417. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for these costs for those business units in the three Social and Family Affairs the risk analysis and years preceding decentralisation, in respect of the the cost benefit analysis which she has carried out last decentralisation by her Department. or proposes to carry out in respect of decentralis- [19108/04] ation as it affects her Department. [19093/04] Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mary 422. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Coughlan): The accounts branch of my Depart- Social and Family Affairs the assessment which ment, comprising more than 90 staff, was has taken place to date of the proposed move of decentralised to Dundalk at the end of May 2002. the social welfare appeals office to a new The salaries, overtime and domestic travel figures location; her assessment of the risk of losing for the accounts branch set out below are based experienced personnel and of the risk of on comparisons of the average costs for the three undermining the impartiality of the office by years prior to decentralisation, from June 1999 to housing it in the same building as other social end May 2002 and the average costs of the two welfare activities; and if she will make a state- years following decentralisation, June 2002 to end ment on the matter. [19469/04] May 2004. All punt amounts were converted to Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mary euro for ease of comparison. Coughlan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 417 The annual average salaries cost increased by \ and 422 together. about 93,000. This increase is mainly due to sal- The relocation of business areas from Dublin ary increases paid to staff under the bench- to provincial centres involves a major programme marking and Sustaining Progress agreements in of work for my Department and a formal project the period since the decentralisation. The annual \ management structure has been established to average overtime cost decreased by 42,000. The annual average domestic travel cost increased by ensure this programme is delivered in an efficient \ and effective manner. A key objective of this pro- 24,500. This takes account of increases in mile- age, subsistence and public transport costs over gramme is to ensure that decentralisation is \ implemented with minimal disruption to cus- the period. It also includes 9,600 which arose tomer service and to the 1,300 staff involved. due to exceptional and non-recurring circum- A preliminary implementation plan for decen- stances in 2003. tralisation of my Department has been prepared. 419. Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for The plan includes an overall analysis of the risks Social and Family Affairs the number of persons involved and the proposed measures required to decentralised and the full duration of the project, manage those risks. A more detailed risk analysis in respect of the last decentralisation by her will be undertaken by each business unit involved Department; the number of internal and external 675 Questions— 29 June 2004. Written Answers 676

[Mr. R. Bruton.] of carer’s allowance. She has been notified of this transfers which were required to obtain the requi- decision, the reasons for it and of her right to site number of persons decentralising; the amount appeal to the social welfare appeals office. of time necessary to train decentralising persons Under social welfare legislation decisions on and the percentage and duration of overlapping claims must be made by deciding officers and staff which was required; and the additional costs appeals officers. These officers are statutorily for overtime and travel and subsistence appointed and I have no role in regard to making incurred. [19123/04] such decisions. 421. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Social Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mary and Family Affairs the reason a person (details Coughlan): The most recent decentralisation pro- supplied) in County Cork has been refused sup- gramme undertaken by my Department was the plementary welfare allowance towards his rent; relocation of some 95 posts of the accounts and the location at which this person can obtain branch to Dundalk. A canvass of the staff serving accommodation for \83 per week based on his in my Department took place in January 2000 to family size. [19414/04] ascertain the level of interest in relocation to Dundalk. Subsequently, in November 2000, civil Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mary servants from other Departments were invited to Coughlan): The Southern Health Board has apply for transfer. Some 36 posts were filled by advised that the person concerned applied for a the relocation of staff from within the Depart- rent supplement in July 2003. One of the con- ment, 45 posts were filled by the redeployment of ditions for receipt of rent supplement relates to staff from other Departments and 14 staff were the maximum amount of rent on which a sup- recruited directly. plement can be paid. The maximum reasonable rent limit appropriate in the case of a single man The assignment of staff to the accounts branch \ \ was achieved on a gradual basis between late is 95. At that time he had an entitlement of 1 2000 and May 2002 when the relocation to Dun- per week based on the appropriate maximum dalk took place and during which training took rent level and his income. place. It is estimated that the average period of He recently made inquiries about rent sup- plement and was informed that he would not overlap was in the region of four to six weeks. An \ allocation of \200,000 was provided for in respect qualify as the rent being sought, 150, is signifi- of overtime and travel and subsistence in connec- cantly in excess of the appropriate reasonable rent limit. The level of rent being sought can be tion with the project. accounted for by the fact that the person con- cerned is currently the sole occupant of a two- Social Welfare Benefits. bedroom house. 420. Mr. Murphy asked the Minister for Social In the opinion of the board, accommodation is and Family Affairs if the carer’s allowance appli- available at the rent level appropriate to his cir- cation by a person (details supplied) in County cumstances and the board has further advised Cork will be dealt with immediately. [19411/04] that there are no exceptional circumstances involved which would warrant payment of rent Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mary supplement as an exceptional measure in this Coughlan): The person concerned has been case. refused carer’s allowance on the grounds that her weekly means derived from her husband’s earn- Question No. 422 answered with Question ings exceed the statutory means limit for receipt No. 417.