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concerned themselves with the Bill, and have asked me questions about it, and they Thursday, the 5th October, 1967 have indicated to me that the measure is a matter of public interest. I also think it The PRESIDENT (The Hon. L. C. is a matter of some public interest. Diver) took the Chair at 2.30 P.M., and I regret that the Press did not feel justi- read prayers. fled to make some mention of this Bill, particularly as I had asked, at the con- QUESTIONS (23: ON NOTICE clusion of the proceedings, that the Press CROSSWALKS give some indication to the public as to the passage of the measure. Scarborough Beach Road: Installation of Sodium Lighting The Hon. J. Dolan: It was mentioned in the news over the air this morning. 1. The H-on. H. R. ROBINSON asked the Minister for Mines: The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH: I am talk- ing about the Press, not the radio news. (1) How many Pedestrian crossings on I am sure the failure to make any mention Scarborough Beach Road have of it does not lie with the Press represen- been recommended by the Main tative in this House. As a matter of fact Roads Department for priority in- I took the trouble to make a check, and stallation of amber sodium light- found that he did send in a report. It is ing? disappointing to know, however, that the (2) When Is it anticipated work will matter has not been given some publicity. commence on the fitting of units? The Hon. H. C. Strickland: It was on The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH replied: the A.B.C. news. (1) There are eight pedestrian cross- The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH: But not in ings on Scarborough Beach Road. the Press. Whilst a number of us at times At this point in time no recom- listen to the A.B.C. news, and the news mendation has been made for the broadcasts of commercial radio stations, installation of sodium ligbting. this is not always regarded as a good The priority list approved by the coverage with the Incidence of TV. It is Minister for Traffic covers only the Press to which I am referring par- those roads which form the prin- ticularly, and I would like to see some cipal arteries of the city and for reference made to this fact so that the which the Main Roads Depart- public will understand the situation. It ment is responsible for upkeep. is not too late even now. Sixty pedestrian crossings are in- Question put and passed. volved in this scheme and the necessary materials have been Bill read a, third time and transmitted ordered. to the Assembly. Scarborough Beach Road. along BILLS (4); THIRD READING with other local authority roads in the metropolitan area, will now 1. Town Planning and Development Act be considered for the installation Amendment Bill. of sodium lighting on pedestrian Bill read a third time, on motion by crossings as the second stage of The Hon. L. A. Logan (Minister for the programme. Town Planning), and transmitted to Due to the fact that the equip- the Assembly. ment has to be obtained from 2. Prevention of Pollution of Waters by overseas, at this date it is not OUl Act Amendment Bill. possible to say when the installa- 3. Shipping and Pilotage Bill. tion of sodium lighting on local Bills read a third time, on motions by authority roads will be put in The Hon. A. F. Griffith (Minister for hand. Mines), and passed. (2) Answered by (1). 4. Bulk Handling Bill. 2. This question was postponed. Bill1 read a third time, on motion by The Hon. L. A. Logan (Minister for EXPLOSIVES AND DANGEROUS GOODS Local Government), and passed. ACT AMENDMENT BILL POISONS ACT AMENDMENT BILL Third Reading THE HTON. A. F. GRIEFFITH (North Second Reading Metropolitan-Minister for Mines) [2.38 THE HON. G. C. MacKINNON (Lower p.m.]: I move- West-Minister for Health) r2.45 p.mi.]: I That the Bill be now read a third move- time. That the Bill be now read a second I feel constrained to say that I was sorry time. I could not find any reference whatsoever The Poisons Act gives control over all to the debate on this Bill in this morning's classes of Poisons used or marketed in this Press. From time to time reporters have State. For some years interstate discus- [Thursday, 5 October, 1967.1 111215 sions aimed at the introduction of uniform three new railway lines, a couple of regulations relating to paints have taken hundred miles in length, from places place. This product, of course, may con- which hitherto were of no importance to tain several classified poisons. Draft regu- places of no existence, thus facilitating the lations are prepared and ready for promul- development of the Pilbara in a manner gation. It is proposed that these regulations which, from its very magnitude, is still will be made under the Health Act. difficult to comprehend. I am sure the An examination of the position by the Minister for Mines must derive consider- assistant parliamentary draftsman resulted able satisfaction from the circumstance in advice being given to the Public Health that he happens to be administering the Department that the Poisons Act required portfolio of mines during this extra- amendment so that exemptions from the ordinary development in the history of Poisons regulations could be granted Western Australia. wherever effective controls were imposed Likewise, I am sure Mr. Wise and Mr. under other State legislation. This is one Strickland must, as we all are, be very of the aspects covered in the Bill. Pleased at the extent of the development Also, the Poisons Act authorises sub- which is at present taking place in the stances to be placed on any one of the north. several schedules. These schedules differ- Also it never occurred to me that I entiate between groups of poisons accord- would live to read, as I did in The West ing to their characteristics. The Act is Australian of Monday last, of a 104,000- insufficiently flexible to give clear power tonner taking a 90,000-tan shipment of to include a substance in a schedule in a iron ore from Dampier, this being worth qualified manner. For example, the fourth 31,000,000, and loaded in the incredibly schedule contains the entry "mercury salts short time of 15 hours. and compounds for parenteral use." I am given to understand that "parenteral use" I understand Hamersicy Iron Pty. Ltd., is by injection. The department has now which is in active operation, has orders been advised that the limiting words "for which it is unable to fulfil with the present parenteral use" are of doubtful validity, plant, and that it proposes to spend a fur- as the Act simply authorises the addition ther $100,000,000 with a view to making of substances. the annual capacity of its plant something of the order of 20,000,000 tons a year, This Bill is therefore introduced to ad- thereby making it the largest iron ore mine just these two points- in the world. (1) Allowing exemptions from the Poisons Act where the poisons in- "Speed the plough" was the slogan of volved are adequately controlled Sir James Mitchell 40 years ago. That is under other State still a pretty good slogan, but today I legislation; and think it may be accompanied by the (2) Authorising the addition of sub- slogans. "speed the iron ore agreements." stances to the schedules, with a "Speed the iron ore trains," and "Speed qualification such as that men- the iron ore ships." tioned for mercury salts and com- pounds. Likewise, it never occurred to me that I would live to see the day when we look I commend the Bill to the House. like having more pelletising plants in the Debate adjourned, on motion by The north than pubs in Kalgoorlie or, to be Hon. W. F. Willesee (Leader of the Oppo- a little less picturesque, in Nedlands. The sition). iron ore developments and the iron ore shipments which have already occurred. IRON ORE (RANWRIGHT) and which are only an indication of things AGREEMENT BIL to come, are already making a substantial Second Reading and beneficial impact upon the finances Debate resumed from the 21st Septem- of the State, the overseas trade of Aus- tralia, and the general industry of Western ber. Australia. The royalties are beginning to THE HON. H. X. WATSON (Metropoli- flow into the coffers of the State Treasury.- tart) [2.48 p.m.]: Had we been pressed Even the comparatively insignificant item for time this afternoon, I would have con- of stamp duty is not altogether unimport- tented myself with saying that I agree ant: because, if my arithmetic is correct. with the speech made by Mr. Strickland the stamp duty on the receipt for the a week or so ago on the second reading shipment of iron ore I have just mentioned of the Bill. But as we are not Pressed for would be a cool £1,000. time, and as the House seems to be in a The Mon. L. A. Logan: Do you mean pretty tolerant mood, I propose to offer dollars or pounds? a few observations myself on this par- ticular Bill. The Hon. H. K. WATSON: I am talking During my sojourn in this House I have dollars. seen many Bills for the closure of railways. The lion. A. F. Griffith: You were talk- and, having lived in such an era, it never ing pounds. occurred to me that during my lifetime The Hon. H. K. WATSON: I thought I I would see the proposed construction of was talking dollars. 1216 126COUNCIEL.]

The Hon. A. F. Griffith: You probably These two men, as were their fathers before thought dollars but said pounds. them, are well known to many of us. The Hon. ff. K. WATSON; As I say, even For example, my old friend, the late Fred the small item of stamp duty on the Wright, who is the father of Mr. E. A. receipt would be $1,000. Unfortunately, Wright, was for many years a prominent the State Treasury will not achieve much businessman in Perth and for a long period real benefit from these royalties and stamp of time was a member of the Perth City duties, etc., because there will probably be Council in those far away days of its peace a corresponding reduction and diminution and tranquillity. in Western Australia's present inadequate I have spoken of Mr. Fred Wright, and share of revenue collected through the You, Mr. President, may remember mediumn of the Commonwealth Govern- that, in the dark days of the wheat indlus- ment. However, it is worth while remem- try in the 1930s, when it was in an extra- bering that, notwithstanding this, the ordinarily perilous position, Mr. Fred Commonwealth Government and the Com- Wright published a book containing his monwealth Treasury will share in the solution to the problems of the wheat in- profits of all these ventures in the north, dustry. However, the passage of years has probably to the tune of 50c in the $1. proved that the thesis or the hypothesis which he then propounded to save the In addition, in the matter of trade, the wheat industry was on less solid grounds iron ore shipments will still further sub- than those on which his son is endeavour- stantially increase by hundreds of mil- ing to help develop the north. lions of dollars, and probably by thousands of millions of dollars, Western Australia's The name of Hancock has, for many de- favourable overseas trade balance to the cades, been well known throughout the great advantage of Australia as a whole. Pilbara, particularly around Mulga Downs Let us remember that, except for Western and the Hamersley Range. To my personal Australia's surplus, the overall Australian knowledge Lang Hancock and Ernest picture would be anything but bright, be- Wright have, for somne 30 years, been cause the rest of Australia generally shiows actively interested in the mineral develop- an adverse overseas trade balance. Also, ment of the north of the State. They have the internal benefits of all this develop- looked for gold; they have looked for ment which is taking place in the north, manganese; they have looked for white and which is percolating right through to asbestos; they have looked for blue the metropolitan area, is of untold bene- asbestos, and they have looked for iron fit to all parts of the State. The provision ore. of sleepers, machinery, houses, etc. in one The Hon. F. J. S. Wise: And found it. sense has created great prosperity, activity, The Hon. H. K. WATSON: Yes, and have employment and, indeed, over-employment found it. I want to go on record as say- throughout We-stern Australia. ing that, in my opinion, the spate of iron So far as the agreement which is con- ore development with which the State is tained in the schedule to this Bill is con- blessed, and with which it is to be blessed, cerned, there are some aspects which, to has its genesis more than anywhere else my mind, are refreshing and some other inl the knowledge, the vision, the imagina- aspects which seem to be curious and even tion, the energy, the tenacity, and if harsh. I happen to be one of those men members like, the cussedness of these two who may be described as an unashamed, battlers-Hancock and Wright. one-eyed Western Australian and I take It has been suggested in some quarters the view that whether we are locking for that Lang Hancock's attainments in dip- mining entrepreneurs, hospital administra- lomacy are in inverse ratio to his en- tors, town planners, or leaders in any thusiasm for the north. Speaking for other direction we have the ability here myself I have always found him a pretty to throw up these men from within our rational and level-headed individual. I own community. One of the pleasing think it is worth while recording that it features of this agreement is that the was Hancock who induced Mr. Val Duncan, registered office of the company is "not the Chairman of Directors of Rio Tinto, in Delaware but in Thomas Street and, to come to Western Australia and to look likewise, the controlling shareholders in at the proposal in respect of the develop- the company are not residents of some ment which is now conducted by Hamers- foreign country but are men who have icy iron Pty. Ltd. been born and bred in Western Australia, and who have worked and lived amongst It was Lang Hancock who took Mr. Tom Us. Price to the Hamersley Range; he flew him over the area and convinced him of indeed, my friend, Lang Hancock, was the mineral wealth, particularly iron ore, not only born and bred in Western Aus- in that district. I well remember Lang tralia, but was born and bred in the north Hancock telling me after he had taken of Western Australia. the late Tom Price on that journey that The Hon. F. J. S. Wise; In the Pilbara. Mr. Price said something to this effect: "Boy, we would give our eye-teeth for the The Hon. H. K. WATSON: Yes, either gravel, let alone the iron ore in this dis- in the Pilbara or in the Ashburton. trict." [Thursday, 5 October, 1967.1

Then again it was Hancock and Wright Government has encouraged industry, who induced Daniel Ludwig to send his Particularly in the metropolitan area, by team of geologists and mining engineers giving away land, by making substantial to Western Australia. They were the loans, or by giving substantial guarantees. people whose agreement we dealt with a Even in respect of the Kwinana oil month or two ago-I refer to the Sentinel agreement of 1952, and the B3.H.P. steel agreement. industry agreement of 1952, we found that It was Robert Louis Stevenson who said: the Government undertook, at its own cost, "To travel hopefully is a better thing than to Provide water, and to provide rails. to arrive." These two sons of Western Aus- The Hon. H. C. Strickland: And hous- tralia have arrived, and they are to be con- ing. gratulated. I wish them well. I suggest the fruits of their labour, however great, are The Hon. H. K. WATSON: Yes, and well deserved. After all, they cannot take housing and other things. But this it with them; they cannot even give it agreement, like the previous iron away without gift duty; and there are, of ore agreements of recent years, pre- course, such things as income tax and death sents a very diff erent picture. if duties. I may be permitted to reminisce for a moment, it certainly Presents a different On the 15th November, 1961, 1 had picture from the first iron ore lease of occasion to refer to the activities of Lang note-or notoriety-which was granted in Hancock and Ernest Wright, and what I 1920, or thereabout, to Jock Thomson: then had to say is recorded on page 2785 because in 1920 the Cockatoo Island leases of Hansard of that year. I will not, how- were pegged by Jock Thomson. He was ever, burden members by reading it this granted leases, not with an agreement, but af ternoon. without any agreement at all. He was I would say, however, that having arriv- granted mining leases subject to the ord- ed, and having assured themselves of inary labour conditions. royalties to the tune of about $2,000,000 They were circumstances very different a year, they now want to plough it back from those connected with the leases of in the Filbara as risk capital, and press on today. One extraordinary feature about to even greater things, as evidenced by the these particular leases to Thomson was agreement before us. For quite a long that at one stage they finished up while I felt that Lang Hancock, in his in the activities and prospects, was a pretty good ownership of the Queensland Government. Illustration of the old Bible saying that But today, we find that one does not "A prophet is not without honour merely peg a lease and expect to have it save in granted. One has a chance of getting the his own country." lease, but in connection therewith, as the The developments that have taken place, Minister reminded us in moving the second and which are a fact today, demonstrate reading of this Bill, the operator concerned that he has proved himself correct in the is required to construct towns complete with vision that he had for the north. Power and water, do the mining, and oper- The Hon. IF. J. S. Wise: Can you recon- ate ore extraction and handling facilities, cile much of their achievement with Sir Provide roads, rails, and wharves at a flag- Arthur Padder's view a few years ago? fall of about $70,000,000. The Hon. H. K. WATSON: Is the hon- As I said, the agreement now before us curable member referring to the letter he is, in most respects, much the same as read the other night. agreements which have been passed in this The Hon. F. J. S. Wise: Yes. House in recent years-Cleveland Cliffs, The Hon. H4. K. WATSON: So far as Mt. Goldsworthy, Mt. Newman, and so on. Sir Arthur Padden's letter is concerned, However, in this agreement with the two I might be inclined, for one fleeting local lads, as it were, there appear a moment, to adopt the Philosophy of number of restrictions and penalties which Goethe and say, "What I cannot praise I are not to be found in the earlier agree- speak not of." Upon reflection I think I ments with the companies which are con- will, however, be my natural self, and say trolled outside of Australia. The Minister that I regard that letter as a, pretty good has described some of these penalties as illustration of the type of puerile thinking encouragement, but from the Minister's at Canberra which has for many years explanation it would seem to me that his retarded the growth of Western Australia. idea of the proper interpretation of the The Hon. H. C. Strickland: Hear, hear! word "encouragement" differs rather ma- The Hon. H. K. WATSON: The only terially from mine. thing that can be said in favour of that To me, the most oppressive clause in the letter is that it at least proves that Sir agreement is that which, after two years, Arthur Padden was not in the class of the restricts the export of unprocessed ore to girl who could speak 20 languages and who two and a half times the export of pellets. could not say "No" in any of them. One could have understood this had the In connection with the development of penalty been imposed if the pelletising Western Australia, in the metropolitan plant had not been erected: but it is area, in the north, and in other districts, cur ious to say that after the company has over the years we have seen that the spent $750,000 in exploration work, and (45) 1218 118[COUNCIL.) then $10,000,000 on a railway, wharves, and adopt that statement, I would be in- towns complete with power, water, and so clined to say that I do not know whether on, the company should still have this res- these conditions frighten Hancock and triction placed upon it. As I see it, it is Wright, but they certainly frighten me. virtually an embargo upon the export of The Hon. A. F. Griffith: Do you think unprocessed ore. they would have mutually entered into an The State Government-no less thant agreement of which they were frightened? myself and many others-has always felt that there should be no embargo on the The Hon. H. K. WATSON: It would export of iron ore; and, for that matter, have to be the best agreement the Gov- on any other natural product of which we ernment would offer. They would be in have adequate supplies for local use. the hands of the Government. The Hon. The Hon. A. F. Griffith: They were in A. F. Griffith: None of the the hands of a mutual negotiation. Have agreements presented to Parliament gave you asked Hancock what he thinks about support to that contention. this? The Hon. H. K. WATSON: That is rmy The Honi. H. K. WATSON: I think his point; but this one does. it should be the view would be much the same as that same as the others. which I have just expressed. It seems to The Hon. A. F. Griffith: That is not me also that the justification for easing what you said. that limitation becomes more important The Hon. H. K. WATSON: It is what in view of the announcements which were I intended to say. If the Minister did not published in the paper on Monday last understand me the first time- I will say it indicating that at Wittenoom, which the again: I see no reason at all why the pro- partners purchased last year consequent hibition should be in this agreement, as upon the closure by the Colonial it is not in the other agreements. Sugar Refining Company of the The Hon. A. F. Griffith: I thought you asbestos works, some 300,000,000 tons of said that the State Government, you, and high grade hematite ore had been dis- the agreements did not see any reason why covered within three or four nmiles of the there should be a restriction on the export existing crushing facilities. I understand of ore, the crushing facilities at Wittenoom are of Rhbout the same order as the crushing The Hon. H. K. WATSON: I have recol- facilities at Mt. Goldsworthy. lections of the State Government- That does seem to me to place an en- The Hon. A. F. Griffith: Is that what tirely new aspect on the prospects of the you said? future of Wittenoom-and Roebourne for The PRESIDENT: Order! The Minister that matter-because I understand that will have an opportunity to reply at a prior to the closure of the asbestos works later stage. at Wittenoom those towns had a population The Hon. H. K. WATSON: Under this of 1,400 people who were directly, or in- agreement the operators are liable to a 100 directly, supported by the asbestos crush- per cent. increase in royalties if the pellet ing operations. plant is not completed by a certain time. It appears that the plant which exists I point out again that there is no such at Wittenoom is suitable and adequate to provision in any of the other agreements. crush iron ore, and if that be so the It is a little curious to me, as I studied prospects of the township, and of the the agreements, to see the restrictions people of the township, seem to be pretty have been included in this agreement. As bright-long term. As far as the People are Mr. Strickland mentioned the other night. concerned, if the crushing plant is work- there is aLclause in the agreement which ing it matters not to them whether it is permits of variations, from time to time, crushing asbestos, iron ore, or road metal. and I respectfully suggest to the Minister If it is working it is providing employment that the clauses of which I have just made and keeping the town afloat. mention might well be looked at with a Subject to the construction of the rail- view to their provisions being eased, as way it does seem that quite apart from there is no reason why these two men asbestos-even if the asbestos mine was should not be given their heads. They never reopened-Wittenoom has a reason- know what they are doing, they are cap- able future. But, as the years go by, if able businessmen, and they are spending the railway is constructed it could have no small amount of their own money in the double advantage of reviving the this operation. asbestos industry. So far as the agreement itself is con- The Minister was very care!ful to say cerned. I am reminded of the Duke of that this agreement had nothing to do Wellington on the famous occasion when with asbestos. This agreement relates only be looked at his army and on being asked to iron ore and Is not contingent upon the the question whether the enemy would be reopening of the asbestos industry. How- frightened by that army, said, "I do not ever, there are a. few facts in connection know whether the enemy is frightened, with that industry which are extremely but the army frightens me."' To adapt interesting having regard to the develop- [Thursday, 5 October, 1967.) 121921 ment. which Is taking place with respect to be lifted, the State Government set out to iron ore. encourage people to search for iron ore. The two fundamentals in trade and comn- Applications were called for temporary re- merce are these-firstly, one must have a serves for iron ore with the exclusive right market and one must meet the market to prospect for the mineral within the areas price. Secondly, unless one can produce of those temporary reserves. It was de- and deliver at a figure which is greater cided that a temporary reserve would be than the cost then the inevitable end is an area of 50 square miles maximum, but to go broke. I have some interesting that the applicant could hold one or more figures with respect to asbestos which are temporary reserves. worth Pondering over, because the closure The first advertisement, or announce- of the Wittenoomn asbestos works was due ment, that applications would be invited to the two factors I have just mentioned. brought forth a large number of applica- The cost of production and delivery was tions from all sorts and kinds of people. such that it could not be recouped at It was the task of the Mines Department to current market Prices. analyse the applications and grant the temporary reserves to people in accordance When it is borne in mind that the road with the merits of each application. freight payable on asbestos from Wittenoom Messrs. Hancock and Wright were among to Hoebourne was $13 a ton, and when the those who were successful and were railway is constructed the freight will be granted a considerable number of reserves. only $1.20 per ton, and when it is also remembered that sea freight charged on As was stated by both members who have asbestos was of the order of $33 a ton, spoken to the Bill, Messrs Hancock and whereas under the new system of bulk Wright succeeded in encouraging and en- shipment it can be reduced to $1.75 per ticing capital to Western Australia to ton, it can be seen there is scope to sub- assist in the development of the areas stantially reduce production costs, and they were granted as temporary reserves at even make the asbestos industry a profit- the time. able concern. I well remember the occasion on which The motion before the House is that the the late Tom Price-and he is the person Bill be now read a second time. For my after whom that great mountain of iron part, I would be happy if there were added ore is named-came to the State of West- to that motion the words "and let us now ern Australia. He went to the north, had praise famous men" or. to switch from the a look at the area, and then returned to classical language of Ecclesiastes to the Perth. It was on a Sunday that the language of the football field, "Come on Premier (The Hon. D. Brand), Mr. Court, Hancock." and I saw Mr. Price and his associates after their return from the north. It is THE HRON. A. F. GRIFFITH (North true to say, as Mr. Watson has expressed Metropolitan-Minister for Mines) [3.26 it, that Mr. Price 'was most enthusiastic p.m.]: I would like to take the opportunity about what he saw, and also about the to thank both Mr. Strickland and Mr. prospects for the north-west. Watson for the remarks they have made Two of the temporary reserves for iron In connection with the Bill. I also want ore that were granted to Messrs. Hancock to make it perfectly clear that what I and Wright were made over, by sales intend to say in reply Is in no way, shape, agreement, to C.R..A.-Conzinc Riotinto- or form to be taken as criticism of the which subsequently became the holding partners to this agreement. company, Hameraley iron. Whatever ar- In view of what has been said, and in rangements the partners made, they sold view of the charge that has been made two temporary reserves to the company to that these two local people have been dealt which I have just referred, under option. with unfairly by the Government, I do feel and later on that option was taken up. that the House is entitled to some ex- planation from me as to how these people Members will then recall the announce- have been treated. I would like members ment regarding the closure of the mining to know that, in my opinion at least, the operations at Wittenoom Gorge. It came partners have not been treated unfairly; suddenly and unexpectedly, although in as a matter of fact, they have been treated the Mines Department we had knowledge very generously. of the fact that Wittenoom was running I would like to tell the Rouse how the into mining difficulties because of the Mines Department deals with what are shortage of ore and as a result of other known as temporary reserves. Members conditions. However, the closure, to say are aware, of course, that the Common- the least, came quite suddenly. wealth held an embargo over the export it was then that Messrs. Hancock and of iron ore for many years. We have Wright decided they would look into the heard references to the correspondence question of Purchasing the Australian Blue from the Treasurer of the day, and certain Asbestos interests at Wittenoomn Gorge: remarks about that correspondence. How- and they pointed out to me, to the Gov- ever, I will not deal with that aspect. ernment, to the Press, and to everybody From the day the Commonwealth Gov- concerned, that the future of Wittenoom. ernment decided that the embargo should Gorge, and their ability to rehabilitate the 1220 1220COUNCIL. mine and the area rested, to use their own The Hon. H. K. Watson: I was referring wards, which the Press quoted, on these only to a couple of points in the agree- terms, "Unless we are given the right to ment. prospect these reserves the future of Wit- The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH: I know. At tenoom and the blue asbestos mine there this point I am rather confining myself could be dimmed. Our purchase of Wit- to the comment made by Mr. Strickland tenoomn could be useless." The reserves to when he said that the local boys were which they referred were the two reserves being singled out for harsh treatment by which I have already mentioned. the Government. I can assure members I made it clear in my second reading that is not the case at all: it was far speech-and Mr. Watson drew attention from being the case. to this, also-that the agreement, which Because some publicity was given to the is part of the Bill, has no relation what- matter, members will recall that the ever to the reopening of Wittenoom Gorge, Leader of the Opposition (The Hon. J. T. and the partners have made this perfectly Tonkin), Mr. Wise, Mr. Bickerton, and clear. I merely want to point out that the Mr. Strickland sought an interview with essential matter, from the point of view the Premier, Mr. Court, and myself to of the re-opening of Wittenoom. Gorge, was find out what was going on; and Mr. that the Government should grant-and I Tonkin made a statement to the Press say "regrant"-the two temporary reserves after this interview. The newspaper article which the partners had previously held. reads as follows:- Opposition leader Tonkin said The Hon. L. A. Logan: And then sold. yesterday he believed the government The Hon. A. F. GRIMFTH: They had was favourably disposed towards the to have them back. I think for the third development proposals of mining part- occasion the Government decided to call ners L. G. Hancock and E. A. Wright. applications for the reserves. For that third However, the proposals were some- occasion-or it might even have been the what nebulous at this stage. fourth occasion-we put a fairly strict Mr. Tonkin and Labor politicians limit on the time in which applica- representing North-West electorates tions could be made-in other words, we met Premier Brand, North-West Min- brought the closing date forward. This was ister Court and Mines Minister Griffith done to facilitate the business and to move to discuss the future of Wittenoom. forward as quickly as possible considera- Roebourne and Point Samson and any tion of the two temporary reserves which development proposals that might the partners needed so badly. affect these towns. As had been the case in the past, we Mr. Tonkin said before the meeting received a very large number of applica- that Labor members wanted the gov- tions-probably I should have said "a ernment to take them into its confi- considerable number" rather than "a very dence about plans for the Wittenoomn large number" of applications. In the area area. in which these two temporary reserves were situated there was a complexity of Later, he said the talks had been applications. One area extended over into full and frank another area, and they were all around "We found the ministers anxious the place. We had quite a Job to sort to answer our questions," he said. the whole position out; and, in addition The government had not received to the two temporary reserves that Messrs. any proposals that could be regarded Hancock and Wright wanted, they asked as firm. for many more. That was in February. 1967, and the I think initially they were granted 11 or state of affairs at that time was rather 12-not two, but 11 or 12. or around that nebulous. There were talks about the number. After the two partners had got granting of the two temporary reserves under way, and had examined the area and the discussion developed along those a little more closely, Mr. Hancock came to lines. Since then we have negotiated the my office and said. "We have discovered agreement, and it was entered into in the some more hematite which is outside the same spirit as many other agreements boundaries of these areas. I would very which have been negotiated on behalf of much like to think that we could have the State. an adjustment of the boundaries to One or two principal points were kept include this." I did not think the request in mind with this agreement, as with all was unreasonable, since Mr. Hancock had the others, one of the most important looked around the district, and so I being that the State should not be called adjusted the boundaries and granted them upon to provide any of the facilities re- a further area. quired. The standard had been set with When the agreement was entered into previous agreements-that in return for it was not based on two temporary reserves, the right to Prospect exclusively, within but on 34 temporary reserves. So nobody the area concerned, the obligation was on can tell me that these people have been the companies to negotiate an agreement treated ungenerously or unjustly, because with the Government before any mining they have been treated very justly indeed. titles would be granted. One of the prin- [Thursday, 5 October. 1967.] 122122 cipal points was that the State should be The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH: Yes: or 300 free frorn any monetary obligations; the acres according to the permit that is Companies would accept these and the granted. Usually these areas are granted State would get the benefit by way of initially in the form of a temporary re- royalties, by way of employment, and by serve. In this instance each tempo13rary way of industry along the lines indicated reserve is 50 square miles in extent, and by Mr. Watson. there are 34 reserves, which makes a total The approach to this agreement was no of 1,700 square mites. Within this area different from the approach that was made the parties to this agreement have full to any of the other agreements. The re- prospecting rights, and they are entitled ference to royalties is purely academic in to apply for mineral leases within that the mind of Mr. Hancock, because he is area. Even if 300 square miles were quite certain the whole project will suc- divided into mineral leases under the pro- ceed, and I give him full credit for his visions of the Mining Act it would prove optimism. If the project succeeds in the to be an extremely expensive proposition. way he thinks it will the reference to However, that is not the important fac- royalties is purely academic and there will tor. The important factor is that the be no need for the provision to come into State, on the one hand, grants the right eff ect. to mine, but on the other hand the com- I am sorry if I misinterpreted what Mr. pany accepts the obligation which goes Watson said, but I thought he said that with such right, and the result is the he saw no reason why the iron ore pro- State is gaining the benefit of the mineral duced in this State should not be exported. development. We can then look at the The Government sees no reason why it statistics showing the improvement in our should not be exported in reasonable trade, in our turnover, and in many quantities, and the royalty rates are set other avenues over the last four or five in relation to the f.o.b. rates in all these years. As Mr. Watson has pointed out, agreements; but the Government is ex- ~great benefit has been brought to Aus- tremely anxious that instead of the raw tralia as a whole because-of the efforts of materials being exported they should be this State in regard to mineral develop- Processed into some form within the State. ment. I had a took at some of the rele- Where that encouragement is given to a vant figures only the other day and I was company, and it responds by treating the surprised and amazed to note how well ore within this State, the royalty rate Western Australia was progressing com- decreases, as is indicated in all the iron pared with some of the other States. ore agreements, including this one: be- cause the treatment of the ore locally Sitting suspended from 3.46 to 4.4 p.m. would be of great benefit to Western Aus- tralia. The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH: I have only This again is part of the agreement. a few more comments to make. Not only This is an agreement entered into by two do I think the partners in this project parties sitting around a table and mutually received fair treatment, but I have also a agreeing to the clauses contained in the letter in one of the files in the Mines agreement which is signed at one of those Department signed by Mr. E. A. Wright in little ceremonies people like to have, be- which he thanked me for the co-operation cause it is an achievement on the part that the department extended to him in of the signatories; that is. both the Gov- granting him 85 per cent, of the applica- ernment and those who will benefit from tions he had made for temporary reserves. the agreement. It cannot be said justifiably that these The Hon. H. K. Watson: Like the Presi- people have been singled out, or that they dent of the United States, do you hand have been given harsh treatment. around a pen at the signing of these The agreement has still some distance agreements? to go. When I saw the partners on the The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH: We will in- 20th March, 1967, I took a few notes of vite the honourable member to one of the interview. They are: The deposits are these ceremonies at which an agreement based on linonitle ore, the areas have is signed and he can see for himself. It not been drilled, and the partners are is perfectly true that many of these min- satisfied the ore is there. ing operations can be entered into with- I read a report in the newspapers a out agreements of this nature. I1 can few days ago, and this changed the situa- grant mining titles to people which will tion considerably. it was reported to the give them the right to do certain things. Daily News, but not to the Mines Depart- but I am sure it will be appreciated that ment, that the partners were mn possession the basis of this agreement between the of 300,000,000 tons of hematite ore; so In Government and Messrs. Hancock and the space of a few months the situation Wright is outside the Mining Act. The has changed. Mr. Hancock has returned areas arc so huge that if mining titles were from overseas. He became aware of the granted in the ordinary way it would fact that he had not fulfilled his obliga- probably defeat the objective. tion to the Mines Department to report The Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: You have to quarterly on what he was doing. He has grant 24 acres at a time. written in to say he regretted the report 1222 1222[COUNCIL.] had not been made, and that he would The H-on. H. K. Watson: Did You say hasten to have the position corrected. I $300,000,000? Prefer to receive reports from mining The Hon. A. P. GRIFFITH: Yes, by people through the department, and not 1971. 1 agree with Mr. Watson that this through the Press. is a valuable contribution towards the At the time Mr. Hancock considered economy of the State. From may own that something in the order of $700,000,000 point of view it has been very nice to be to $800,000,000 would be involved in the associated with this development. As development of this area. That was in time goes by I feel sure we will produce January, 1967. He said he thought the more agreements of this or some other money would probably be Provided by an nature, in connection with the develop- Australian-United States interest. He ment of other minerals in Western Aus- said, "We expect the finance will be pro- tralia. for the consideration of Parlia- vided from the United States." I agree ment. with him that an influx of capital from Question put and passed. overseas will be required to get the pro- Bill read a second ject under way. time. This project will be no different from In Committee the one he launched in respect of the first The Deputy Chairman of Committees lot of te~mporary reserves which were (The Hon. F. D. Willmott) in the Chair; granted to him when he approached The Hon. A. P. Griffith (Minister for C.RA., or from any of the others. The Mines) in charge of the Bill. amount of money involved in these developments is, indeed, huge. I want to Clauses 1 to 6 Put and passed. make it clear that the Wittenoom Gorge Schedule- claims for asbestos, and the titles that were held by A.B.A., were transferredt The Hion. H. IC. WATSON: Following Hancock and Wright. As I have said, the the Minister's remarks, I would like to matter of paramount importance 'was clarify one point. My criticism, if it can that Wittenoomn Gorge could not be be called criticism, was not directed at the opened up without the granting of the basic treatment of Hancock and Wright two temporary reserves mentioned. The by the Government. I was merely look- Partners have now been given those two ing at this agreement, as one would look reserves, and 32 others as well. at a Bill, and comparing it with another. So far as the limitation of two and a half They have discovered 300,000,000 tonls times for unprocessed ore, as against of hematite ore in and around Wittenoomn pellets, is concerned, I simply drew atten- Gorge. I am glad they wvere successful tion to the fact that that limitation was in doing that and I wish them luck. If not in most of the other agreements. this discovery will enable them to carry out their original intention of reopening The H-on. H. C. STRICKLAND: I would the Wittenoom. mine, and doing something also like to point out that my criticism for the Wittenoomn district, then I am and my references to harshness were sure we are all very grateful to them. made-if the Minister reads my speech- The State will give them every possible when I compared this agreement with encouragement to fulfil their objectives. similar ones which we have dealt with. I was not referring to the treatment by In conclusion might I say the Govern- the department. ment regards this agreement as being no different from the others. I commend The Hon. H. K. Watson: It is a question the agreement to members as being of comparing one document with another. worth while, subject to the ability of the The I-on. A. P. GRIFFITH: I wish to partners to implement it successfully. if point out that mining companies such as they succeed in doing that not only will this one are not given possession of any- the Profit be theirs, but it will also be thing until the State confers on them the shared-as I have said in relation to right to look. The minerals belong to the other similar agreements-with all the State and that Point should not be lost People of Western Australia. sight of. That is the reason why the companies are given temporary reserves. Regarding the Point made by Mr. Wat- Before they are given the right to mine son about the lack of benefit to Western Australia in respect of the royalties, I they have to put their proposals to the must say that I agree with him. Government of the day. Western Australia is a claimant State, and We have followed the line of getting the as long as it continues to be a claimant best deal we can for Western Australia State then the benefit from the royalties under these agreements. This one may is a doubtful one. Until the State moves appear to be a little harsh in the eyes of forward and becomes other than a claim- Mr. Strickland and Mr. Watson, but I ant State. many more other benefits, repeat that it is the result of mutual which we seem to be enjoying today, have negotiations, and if the undertakings Of a doubtful effect. It is estimated that the the partners reach fruition, the question income from minerals to Western Aus- of royalty penalties will be purely aca- tralia could reach $300,000,000 by 1971. demic. [Thursday, 5 October, 1967.] 1223

Schedule put and passed. We can imagine my shooter rubbing his Title Put and passed. eyes and saying, "My word! I must have dozed Off," because that would have been Report considered a ridiculous thing to say 50 Bill reported, without amendment, and years ago. the report adopted. We do not have to go back 50 years to realise how the situation concerning fauna ACTS (7) :ASSENT can deteriorate. I imagine that 25 years Message from the Governor received and ago no-one would have thought the present read notifying assent to the following situation concerning the wild turkey could Acts. arise. We know that 25 years ago all over 1. Lotteries (Control) Act Amendment Western Australia, and certainly in the Act. northern Portion of the State, the destruc- 2. Evaporites (Lake MacLeod) Agree- tion of the wild turkey was called a sport. ment Act. Why he was ever referred to as the "wild" 3. Albany Harbour Board Act Amend- turkey, I will never know, because no ment Act. tamer bird ever existed. Nothing was easier to shoot, and it was a common 4. Bunbury Harbour Hoard Act Amend- Pastime, week after week, to shoot many ment Act. more of these birds than was necessary. 5. Indecent Publications Act Amend- Fancy 25 years ago saying, by way of ment Act. Prophecy, that within a very short period 6. Police Act Amendment Act. of time the bird would be virtually extinct 7. Physiotherapists Act Amendment Act. and would have to be permanently pro- tected! Would anyone who made a FAUNA PROTECTION ACT prophesy of that nature at that time have AMENDMENT BILL been believed? Oh. valiant and brave were we when we hunted and destroyed the Second Reading wild turkey! Debate resumed from the 20th Septem- Recently I read an article headed, "Is ber. the Red Kangaroo Doomed to Extinction ?" Not many Years ago kangaroo shooters were THE HON. W. F. WILLESEE (North- part and parcel of the countryside, at East Metropolitan-Leader of the Opposi- least in the north-west and Gascoyne. On tion) [4.18 p.m.]: It is rather a long haul the inland roads it would be common to from iron ore to fauna, and it is very see teams of shooters, as they were called, difficult to move from the world of millions on almost every station, destroying the of dollars to the world of more or less kangaroos. It was right that they should fantasy; but as we are obviously in such be shot, too, because they were actively a receptive mood today, may I suggest that competing with the sheep for the available we endeavour to project our minds back to fodder. 50 years ago and imagine the luxurious The H-on. F. J. S. Wise: There were situation of a duck shooter of that time, 30,000 in a single year on one station. in the near suburbs of Perth. The Hon. W. F. WILLESEE: That is so. We can imagine how far he would have On occasions, in drought times, the destruc- had to go to get a bag of ducks. We know tion was so great that the management how simple it would have been to shoot had to insist upon some disposal of ear- them, and what a good time would have cases. Today I know of only one team of been had by all under those conditions. I two men shooting in that area. should imagine he would be no different It is fitting that in this Hill we seek to in principle from the male duck shooter preserve the image of the red kangaroo of today. At the end of a successful day because I have heard visitors to this he would return with a bag of ducks for country say that they have seen no finer his wile to pluck, clean, and cook, and animal anywhere. The very big one- then he would enjoy the evening meal, known as the boomer-is a majestic animal conscious of his complete ability to do in his own right. I would very much like to justice to it. be assured that the species will be pre- served for the admiration of the people I wonder what the situation would have in the generations which will follow, be- been if one of us present here could adopt cause he could never be replaced. He Is a somewhat ethereal appearance and at an animal unique to Australia, and I be- the stage when my shooter was in a most lieve he is the very background of Aus- receptive mood-well dined and, we as- trallana. sume, well wined-had appeared before For those reasons alone, we must realise him and said, "In 1967 there will be no that this Bill is necessary; because it In- near waters in this State upon which you creases the responsibility for conserving can shoot ducks. The ducks will have and Protecting fauna in this State. It is moved several miles inland for fear of the timely in its content and conception. shooter's gun. They will be protected for The change In the title of the Act is part of every year because they will be worthy of note. It will be known as the dying out." Fauna Conservation Act instead of the 1224 1224COUNCIL.]

Fauna Protection Act. Obviously the basic closed garden or curtilage of a necessity now is to conserve. To do this dwelling house, or enter and we must provide the ways and means by search any hut, tent, caravan or which the fauna can be conserved. Not other erection, which is not a only must we, with imagination, declare permanent residence, or enter and reserves, but we must also ensure that search any shop, warehouse, they contain plentiful supplies of food. factory, bond store office or any water, and shelter. Then we must make other Premises of whatever des- provisions under which no possibility exists cription or enter into or upon and for our fauna to become extinct. search any lake, river, pond. In passing I would like to say that as a lagoon or other water... layman I believe flora and fauna, are so So it goes on in these dramatic phrases. closely allied that if it is not possible to The point I Wish to make is that provi- link them under one Act, they should at sions have to be written into legislation, least both be under the control of the one because of the sheer consistent cussedness Minister. of the people who find loopholes in the The Hon. R. F. Hutchison: They depend law. Ultimately it is those people who on one another. are responsible for the very strict word- The Hon. W. F. WILLESEE: However, ing of legislation. They bring it upon although that is not the matter under themselves by their continued lack of co- discussion at the moment, it may be a operation, and their unimaginative desire development in time to come. Previously, to destroy, to beat the law, and to have as the Minister told us, fauna has been no regard for the consequences of what associated with the four very important they are doing. items of fisheries, vermin, whaling, and Who could believe that an industry as zoology, and he indicated that these four lucrative as the crayfishing industry has have up to date been the subject of more to be protected against itself? However, concern than has fauna. We can easily there are some among those Who are en- understand this because of their commer- joying all its privileges who cannot realise cial value. Take, for instance, the whal- that they are killing the source of the ing industry which leapt into prominence. income upon which they live, quite apart We know the sorry state that it is in today from what they are doing to the future of because of the over-destruction of whales. the industry. Where do we go if we do The Hon. F. J. S. Wise: The same not make these drastic measures effective? could happen to our turtles. It is only possible to make them effective The I-on. W. F. WILLESEE: Yes, it by putting them into the legislation of the could. Also, but for strong intervention, country, and by arming people with the the same could have occurred to our cray- authority to enforce them. fishing industry. I do not intend to make any comment However, the position will not continue with regard to the details of the Bill. In in connection with our fauna because this his remarks, the Minister suggested that legislation will afford it a particular form wve could discuss any of the clauses in of protection at Government level. We Committee and I will take the opportunity must take drastic legislative action at at the Committee stage to raise any times, and this is not easy to do. It is Queries upon which I want further repugnant to those who have to review explanation. such legislation, and must be particularly I consider a most important point is so to those who have to introduce it into involved in the question of the control of Parliament. reserves. Some very big areas are Section 20 of the principal Act gives an gazetted already and I humbly believe they example of the necessary preventive are far too big to be controlled effectively. measures which must be adopted at times. With the committee, or the authority as Subsection (2), paragraph (a), of this envisaged by the legislption, there will be section provides that a warden may- an opportunity to establish near to Perfect (a) take possession and control of- areas. I realise that the real success of any weapon, instrument , il- conservation must lie in heavy expendi- legal device or other thing or ture, and I wonder wvhether sufficient means which the warden, on revenue will be forthcoming to match my reasonable grounds, believes imaginative enthusiasm when studying the has been used, is being used, Bill. Be that as it may, I realise that a or is about to be used, by the start has to be made and the sooner the offender in the commission of better. This is a start. the offence;.. The constitution of the board is very and deliver them into the custody wide and will include many knowledgeable of a member of the Police Force to persons. I was amazed to find that one be dealt with according to law; member was to be a hydrological engineer. it) stop, detain and search any To be quite truthful, I did not know we vehicle, vessel or conveyance or had one in Western Australia. I knew enter upon and search any land there were many engineers for water not being a dwelling house or en- supplies and the like, but I did not know [Thursday, 5 October, 1967.1 121225 of an existing hydrological engineer. capacity of farm lands by fencing sec- 'However, it is obvious when one traces tions of dams, distributing nest boxes the affinity of the name to the fauna and planting trees, shrubs and other problem that such a man would be of cover and food plants. To improve incalculable value in the deliberations of existing habitat by damming creeks the board. and other run-otis to create more wet- lands and by blasting potholes in It is noticeable that people do not always potentially productive flats that now appreciate an overall picture, but it is as dry out too soon. well that they should present their views as they see them so that the authority Since this document is signed by can accept them, examine them, and The Chief Warden of Fauna, we must appreciate the point of view. Above all assume that the suggestions are made else, the authority can remedy a situation in all seriousness and the Government on the occasions when these views are and Parliament will be asked to en- considered to be right. An article dorse them. We therefore feel that appeared in The West Australian of the it is our duty to ask one or two per- 23rd September, 1067, headed, "Decision tinent questions:- on Ducks Explained." The article refers *If this regulation is ever brought to an action by the Chief Warden of in, what is the estimated cost Fauna, Mr. A. J. Fraser, and reads as of enforcement? Would the follows: - taxpayer be called upon to The Chief Warden of Fauna, Mr. foot the bill, or would it be A, J. Fraser, has sent an open letter taken out of the Fund? If it to farmers, duckahooters, naturalists is to be taken from the fund and sports shop owners about a delay what is the estimated deficit in the opening of the duck season. to be paid by the Taxpayer? *If enforcement and all the en- it says the season will open at 2 p.m. on January 20 and publicises the in- tailed clerical work is to be troduction of a $2 game licence. paid by the Taxpayer and the The letter says that duck stocks are full total of the suggested down because 500,000 acres has been License fees are to be paid drained and other Into the Fauna Conservation areas have b~en rust what is the estimated disturbed. returns over the next 5 years? The delayed opening and abolition of the dual opening are first steps in *If we assume that it is at all a new conservation programme to possible to raise a sum of which the game licence will be the money in this way that would key. pay for work that would have the slightest impact on our Areas will be bought with money water-fowl, is the Fauna De- from the Fauna Conservation Trust partment the best equipped Fund financed by game licences. Government Agency to carry I have here an editorial which appeared out this work? in The Avicultural Magazine, a. Western 'If we assume that the money Australian publication which is headed, was raised, and the work was "Is the Western Australian Governmenit done, and it did result in in- obliged to find targets for duckshooters?" creased water-fowl numbers, It says- should we then allow them to Although it is only a couple of years be shot out of existence by ago that our Fauna Department was duck shooters? telling us that Water Fowl were Regardless of party politics we abundant in W.A., they now tell us cannot bring ourselves to believe that that "Duck stocks overall are low" any Government of ours would lend and that therefore the duck shooting themselves to a scheme that can be *season will not open until January described as providing targets for 20th, and close again on April 30th, duck shooters who enjoy no support for the South-west, and Endsa Land from the community at large. Divisions (presumably the continuous open season will continue to prevail There are perhaps times when duck for the other three quarters of the shooting may be tolerated; but there State). If that was all there was to it, is a vast difference between being at least it would be a very small step tolerated and being given a license to in the right direction, but that is not kill for a couple of dollars. the case, It is proposed that Duck Never in the history of our State Shooters be given a license to kill at has anyone been given a license to $2 per year-the moneys so raised to kill our water-fowl; they are not be placed in a Fauna Conservatiion vermin, they are protected birds. Trust Fund. It is suggested that this If Duck shooters are granted these fund then be used to purchase key licenses, it will be the first time in the areas; to improve the fauna carrying history of our State that they have 1226 1226COUNCIL.)

been granted an absolute right to kill The Hon. R. F. HUTCHSON: As I have protected birds. said, Mr. President, I was connecting the That Is the text of the article in the maga- two subjects of fauna and flora, but I did zine. It shows a point of view in connec- wish to speak mainly on flora in connec- tion with this legislation and it does show tion with a reserve adjacent to Perth on the interest that has already been gener- which there are both flora and fauna. I ated by the presentation of this Bill to wanted to speak before it was too late to I support the measure. do anything about it. I believe this pre- Parliament. cious spot of ours is going to be taken over THE HON. R. F. HUTCHISON (North- for a golf course. I was told by the Edu- East Metropolitan) [4.40 p.m.]: I would cation Department that one of the big col- like to say a few words on the Bill from leges uses this extensively as an educa- the angle of flora, because flora and fauna tional facility. if the council meets one lives meantime, it might be too late for me to really are quite inseparable as speak effectively on it. This was brought on the other. I know of a case which is to my notice by the educators in the area, causing a lot of disquiet because of the pro- particularly the Guildford Grammar posed action to destroy one of the very good flora and fauna areas in close School, and I thought I1could bring it for- vicinity to a town. As I said, if one thinks ward under this Bill. of it in a comnmonsense way the subjects of fauna and flora are really inseparable, THE HON. N. MV1cNEILL (Lower West) because fauna lives on flora. I am amazed [4.45 p.m.J: This is one of those they are not under the one Minister and occasions when I wish I could speak with the one department. some real and expert knowledge of the subject which is covered by the Bill, I The PRESIDENT: Order! I am af raid J speak not with any expert knowledge, but cannot allow the honourable member to with some considerable enthusiasm for speak on flora because this Bll] deals en- what is intended by the clauses contained tirely with fauna. in the measure. I cannot imagine that The Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: They are there would be anyone in Western Aus- ganging up against you. tralia who would take exception to the provisions of the Bill, and who would not The PRESIDENT: According to the dic- give anything but complete and absolute tionary definition, fauna is "the animal support-and I would hope enthusiastic life of any region or geological period." support-for what the Bill seeks to achieve. The parent Act sets out the definition of There may well be some comment and fauna as distinct from flora. I take ex- I criticism and, perhaps, some opposition at ception to Mr. Lavery's interjection, and times, not necessarily because of what is ask him to withdraw it. contained or specified in the Bill, but The Hon. V. R. H. Lavery: I am very rather because of the methods that may be sorry I used such an expression, Mr. Presi- applied at some later stage to implement dent, and I withdraw it. those things which are intended. The Hon. R. F. HUTCHISON: I am sorry I greet the Bill with considerable I cannot speak on this subject. It is a interest. it is a, moment for which a great very urgent matter in the present situa- many people have been waiting and hope- tion. We are about to lose one of the fully anticipating, For this reason, and flora reserves just outside Midland, and for the reasons which have been stated this is used for educational purposes. if by Mr. Willesee, I support the Bill. I I cannot speak on this subject. I will not also support it because while there is an have the opportunity to let this in- dppreciation of the wild life of Western formation be known to the H-ouse. As Australia. and even though there is con- fauna lives on flora, when one considers siderable interest, and people have the all of the insect life, etc.. I do not know best intentions in the world, in the past why it cannot be connected. there has not been a great deal of appli- The PRESIDENT: I am afraid I will cation of the Principle of conservation have to insist. The honourable member which the Bill seeks to achieve. will have a more appropriate time on an- Some time ago I was speaking witl a other occasion to bring her point of view gentleman who was relatively new to both forcibly and properly before the Australia and Western Australia, and he House. However, it cannot be done under said he felt that Australia, generally, had this Bill. arrived at the stage at which the United The Hon. R. F. HUTCHISON: Thank Kingdom had arrived about 10 years ago, you, Mr. President. as it related to public appreciation and the need for fauna conservation. The PRESIDENT: Does the honourable member wish to continue speakingP This statement surprised me a little, because I have been one of those people The HOD. . F. HUTCHISON: As I can- who have long respected the people of the not speak, I will just have to stop. United Kingdom for their very deep and The PRESIDENT; The honourable mem- personal interest In the wild life of their ber cannot speak on flora. own country. It has become traditional [Thursday, 5 October, 1987.) 122722 and a very great heritage of the people right: I would like to think that this was of the Old Country to preserve and con- just as important-or even more so- serve their wild life. than the contributions its preservation is likely to make by increasing human We could go a step further and say understanding and human knowledge. I that this Interest has been apparent even believe that the need to preserve our wild in the highest quarters-and I refer to life should not be only associated with the Royal Family-because of the Interest sheer academic necessity, but with a and appreciation that has been displayed, very natural interest, appreciation, and not only as it concerns the urnque or the more particularly, an enthusiasm for its rare types of fauna, but as it relates to very existence. every aspect of wild life known to exist in the country. The success> of the entire exercise, or an approach of this kind, will depend So to say that we in Australia have ultimately upon the enthusiasm of those reached the position the United Kingdom who are charged with the responsibility arrived at about 10 years ago is indeed of administering the different aspects of most encouraging. It is in line with the this legislation: it will depend upon the impression I formed myself many years enthusiasm of those owners of land in ago, after a period spent in the Old whose areas these sanctuaries and reserves Country itself. are to be located. I f eel there has been a much too timid This brings me to an aspect of the Bill approach in the past on the part of on which I would like to comment. I authority in the field of fauna preservation refer first of all to the title; the name of or conservation. Perhaps It was a timidity the authority itself-the Fauna Board of arising from a feeling that the owners Western Australia, Perhaps we are of the land in question might not always going through a period in our history see eye to eye with the desires of those when boards are not necessarily enjoying charged with the responsibility of fauna the most favourable reaction; and the conservation and Preservation. I believe word "board" unfortunately quite fre- that picture has really changed, I have quently conjures up in the minds of noticed in recent years that there is a people matters of administration, very keen appreciation among owners penalties, inspectorial powers, and regiu- generally-and I speak particularly of the lations. I do niot deny that all these farming community-for the need to things must be present in this conserva- preserve fauna. tion process; there must be some element I would have liked to see some real of these powers. But essentially it must steps being taken, at an earlier stage than come back to an appreciation and this, by way of public relations, to ascer- enthusiasm for the conservation of the tain and determine the position in a some- species in their own right. I wonder also what more concrete form. Even at this whether there may not be a more suitable stage I feel the Bill has been introduced word than "fauna." without a real appreciation of the true The Hon. 0. C. MacKinnon: I am open position. I think perhaps the Minister to suggestion providing It is less clumsy and his officers may still feel some appre- than "Fauna Advisory Committee." hension that the provisions of the Bill may not be accepted, in the way they wish The Hon. N. MeNEILL: I appreciate them to be accepted, throughout the the Minister's comments. He knows country. that 1 have given somne thought to this matter, and I cannot come up with If there is any such apprehension, Or if a Suitable answer; I cannot come up with there is any feeling of opposition what might be a suitable term for this throughout the country to anything pre- body. I agree that the word "committee," scribed in the Bill before us, I believe it as employed previously, does not engender can be overcome by an exercise in public the right attitude at all. It Implies no relations. I noticed that in his second executive power; it suggests an advisory reading speech the Minister devoted a capacity. We want the board, not in an good deal of time to an examination of advisory capacity, but in an executive fauna-the wild life and the animal life capacity, to get on and do something of the country-and related its preserva- with respect to fauna sanctuaries. So I tion to the contribution it could make, agree with what the Minister has said. towards increasing human and is making, Seeing that I have referred to the knowledge. United Kingdom; I notice in tbe Official The Minister connected the necessity Handbook for 1987 for Great Britain that for preservation with space research and there is an organisation-of which, of the like. This is very real; it has some course, the Minister would be aware- very definite application, and serves a which is called, "Nature Conservation." most valuable purpose. But I would like There is a body dealing with nature to think that a Bill oin fauna conserv- conservancy, which is a committee of the tion would be introduced for the preserva- natural environment research counci. I tion and conservation of fauna. in its own know that nature conservancy perhaps 1228 [COUNCIL.] still does not cover the sort of situation is a scientific term; but the title "fauna that we have in Western Australia in re- board of Western Australia" does not make lation to fauna; it covers those things one enthusiastic, and it does not create about which Mrs. Hutchison wished to the impression that is wished. speak a short while ago. It also covers If we call some of the items referred to by Mr. The Hon. 0. C. MacKinnon: Willesee. it the wildlife council you will be happy? associ- The Hon. N. McNEIhL: I think the Min- There are a great many features ister may have noted that I have used ated with wildlife which perhaps might the word "wildlife" more frequently than well be part of the general administration. I have used the word "fauna": and, can- Forests are closely associated with this as didly, I do prefer that term. I think it is are ecology, zoology, and botany. it would be difficult to imagine those cir- essential that we refer to the wildlife of cumstances and environment in our Western Australia. modern-day life which did not have some One of the main purposes of the Bill is bearing on the question of f auna to appoint members to the board. I note conservation. that certain officers will be ex officio mem- bers. I well appreciate that these In fact, Mr. Willesee in his opening com- ex officio members will be people who are ment said-and I -hope I may be excused environmentally concerned in the conser- if I misquote him-that it was a long vation of Western Australia's fauna. The haul from an iron ore agreement. But is Bill lays down that certain people shall be it really so; because the huge areas taken ex officio members of the board by virtue up by these great commercial and indus- of their office. This does not necessarily trial undertakings are certainly having mean that these people will supply the some effect on the wildlife of Western required amount of enthusiasm. Certainly Australia. they will have knowledge of their own This has been well appreciated, and I spheres, but are they the most desirable refer again to the United Kingdom: people to have on a board of this nature? because the organisation that exists there I know the words I have used in this considers industrialisation a very import- respect will not in any circumstances be ant part of the whole question of nature taken personally by any of the depart- conservancy. I mention these things mental officers to whom I have referred. not for the sake of talking, but in the I am speaking in terms of a principle. hope-as mentioned by Mr. Willesee- because the Bill states that certain people that the Bill before us. which I consider shall be ex officio members of the board. to be monumental in character, is only a I repeat: What we need is interest and beginning as it relates to fauna conserva- enthusiasm, and perhaps to go a little tion, and that in due course our legisla- further than is proposed. This interest tion will encompass all those features we and enthusiasm must of necessity include consider most desirable. a considerable knowledge of the subject. I hope that in the not too distant future Perhaps the greatest contribution in the we will have in Western Australia some- way of doing something towards fauna thing approaching the Kruger National conservation may well come from those Park; not merely because of its obvious people who are not civil servants. I note tourist appeal, and the finance it will with some approval that the Bill provides attract, but because of our great apprecia- for an increase in the number of appointed tion and enthusiasm for the preservation members. I appreciate and applaud the of our wildlife. necessity shown to include a taxonomic botanist; and Mrs. Hutchison made the I believe this sort of appreciation can point of the importance of the flora aspect. only be obtained under circumstances like There is provision for the appointment of this. The British Government has gone two zoologists. This is most necessary; and a stage further in relation to this matter then we have the persons who shall have and, according to the publication to which a wide and Practical knowledge of the sub- I referred, Published a white paper-I may ject, and who are not civil servants. slightly misquote again-on walks in the countryside of Great Britain in order to A suggestion has been made and can- engender a greater enthusiasm and appre- vassed that if there are to be ex officio ciation for the general countryside. members-who are heads of departments -who are appointed because of the areas Surely we in Western Australia can take of country in which they are concerned, advantage of and enjoy the benefits of our perhaps we might also appoint someone countryside so much earlier in our history from the areas in which these sanctuaries than the United Kingdom by doing some- will be situated-I refer to the farming thing wider in compass than is intended community. Perhaps this is something by this Bill. which could be looked at. I am not I now return to the question of fauna. necessarily advocating it, because the first While I take some slight exception to the essential is the appointment of the right use of the word "board" I also take ex- type of People rather than a Particular ception to the word "fauna." Again, it category of Person. [Thursday, 5 October, 1967.] 1229

I said earlier that I would not have been disappointed had a Hill of this nature Iuepitatiucp Aiuwmnblu been brought in earlier in our history. My Thursday, the 5th October, 1967 reason for saying this is that apart from the need to care for our wildlife, there is another aspect to this question which has The SPEAKER (Mr. Hearman) took the been a most controversial one in country Chair at 2.15 p.m. and read prayers. districts generally. I refer to the existence of these reserves and the size they should QUESTIONS (18): ON NOTICE be, the use to which they should be put, and whose responsibility it is should they LAtN become a source of vermin, a bushflre ForrestaniaArea: Releases hazard, and so on. Some sections of the farming community fear that someone 1.Mr. YOUNG asked the Minister for with an unbounded enthusiasm in the Lands: wildlife field may run riot and take over (1) Following the success of trials greater areas of land than are necessary conducted by the Department of for this Purpose. Many representations Agriculture in the F'orrestania, have been made over the years on this area, have surveys been com- score. Because this feeling exists, there is menced by the Lands Department always timidity on the part of farmers to subdivide this area into blocks neighbouring these reserves as to what de- suitable for selection? velopment they should undertake in regard (2) If "No," when is this survey to their own Properties. likely to take place? This is an additional reason to bring about a situation where these reserves can Mr. BOVELL replied: be classified, and something must be done (1) No. to place them on a proper footing. Most (2) A soil survey, with the bulldozing people know that these reserves are there: of access tracks, is to be carried and, generally speaking, the people do not out in the Marvel Loch-Forrest- dispute the need for them, and in this Bill ania-Lake Johnson area com- I see an opportunity for their greater care mencing approximately mid-1968. and maintenance. I say again, in relation A decision on which areas might to our fauna, that the greatest need is to be released is dependent upon the have an Organisation which has the capac- results of this soil survey and ity, the enthusiasm, the means, and cer- water storage investigations be- tainly the executive power to bring about Ing carried out by the Depart- a conservation of Western Australian wild- ment of Agriculture. life. It would be largely unnecessary for me MATRIMONIAL CAUSES ACT to indicate in any terms, the uniqueness Delegation of Powers to State of our wildlife. The fact is, as far as I am Government Omfces concerned, the grey kangaroo is not by any means unique on my property. I have a 2. Mr. MOR asked the Minister repre- license to destroy; but frankly I have a senting the Minister for Justice: great deal of difficulty at any time in (1) Has the Federal Attorney-General bringing myself to the point where I can delegated powers under the Matri- destroy, because I like to see them, even monial Causes Act, 1959, part though they cause damage. It is not a VII, to any State office mentioned case of their being unique, it is a case in clause '78 (1) (b) of the Act? of our having them, and we should be (2) If "Yes," to which office are the prepared to go to considerable lengths to Powers delegated? make certain that we not only conserve what we have but, if possible, also increase Mr. COURT replied: their numbers. (1) Yes. I intend to deal with some of the pro- (2) To the person occupying from visions of the Bill in the Committee stage time to time the office of Solicitor- but for the Present I will let what I have General for the State of Western said suffice and give my wholehearted sup- Australia. port to the Bill. Debate adjourned, on motion by The TECHNICAL EDUCATION Hon. H. R. Robinson. Report of Pan-Indian Ocean House adjourned at 5.10 p.m. Conflerence 3. Mr. DAVIES asked the Minister for Education: (1) Has a report been prepared on the Pan-Indian Ocean Conference on technical education which was held in Perth last Year?