WELCOMETO THE IUilGLE EACHDAY, TALK.SHOW PRODUCERS COMPETE IN A RACEAGAINST TIME TO CONVINCETHE BEST, BRIGHTEST AND BIZARRESTPEOPLE TO BARETHEIR DIRTYSECRETS IN FRONTOF MILLIONS.SOME HAVE A FEWDIRTY SECRETS OFTHEIR OWN. By Tom O'Neill . Photographs by David Rose

ESSTHAN TTX/OWEEKS AFTER SHE REMOVED HER producer of The Montel Williams Shou. own breast implants with a disposable razor, "It's horrendousr" agrees Burt DuBrow, co-creator and Laura Thorpe of Bloomfield, N.M., was executive producer of Sally. booked to appear on The Maury Pouicb They know what they're talking about. The behind-the- Show. But before the Povich staff, or "the scenesworld of daytime talk has turned into a war zone. Maury people" (in daytime talk-show par- Tales of manipulation, misrepresentation,outright lying and lance),could get her out of her trailer park, Sally Jessy bribery are commonplace. Producers routinely steal guests Raphaelcoordinating producer Amy Rosenblumhad from competitors, luring them with offers of money, trips, Thorpe, her unemployedhusband and three kids on a even (according to one guest) the possibility of sex with plane to New York. That night, Rosenblumtreated the staffers. And with talk shows proliferating on a monthly family to an Easterdinner and then - a fatal mistake- left basis,it's not going to get better any time soon. them unattendedat their Manhattan hotel. The Maury \fhy the boom? For one thing, talk is cheap. ri7ith the aver- people tracked Thorpe down. Two mornings later, dazed ageshow costing about $5,000an episode(most of it for guest and disorientedbecause of her medicationand a spreading expenses),talk shows can be produced for chump change infection,under the guiseof Povich's"just wantingto talk compared with the cost of a daytime soap. In fact, no new to her," Thorpe was spirited out of her hotel lobby and soapshave been introduced on daytime TV in six years. "As into the Maury offices. one soap dies, another talk show blossoms," boasts Diane An hour later, Thorpe was in a new dress,under bright Rappoport, executive producer of Maury. And it's no coin- lights and onstagebefore a live studio audience- her fami- cidence.Talk shows offer many of the same thrills as soaps Iy nevereven knew shehad left the hotel. Incensed,theSally - sex, betrayals, villains and victims. "Viewers want to see peoplerefused to pay Thorpe'shotel bills or air fare home. real-life people instead of actressestalk about affairs," says Meanwhile,the Maury peoplesaid her woundswere "still Cathy Chermol, executive producer of The Jane Wbitney seeping,dirty and gross"and put her in a hospital- just as Shou. "lt fulfills the same needs." soonas she finished taping the show. "Shewas a horrible guestanyway," saysa Sallysource, "Tsrnry sECoNDs-BrNG! BANG!BooM! -AND I cAN TELL "and just for the record,she didn't rate." whether a guest is going to be any good," saysMary Duffy, \X/ith 17talk showscrowding the daytimeairwaves and an 33, supervising producer of.Montel Williams. She'sreflect- all-talkcable channel on the horizon,guests these days had ing on her 10 years in the industry from her office high betterrate. As producersscramble to fill their panelswith the above Times Square. "Ten years ago it was shocking to see 'OK, deliriouslydysfunctional and the momentarilyfamous, the a transsexualon television," shesays. "Now it's like, competitionfor guestshas reached such a frenzythat stories big deal.' Audiences are more demanding." The intense like Thorpe'sare becomingstandard operating procedure. redhead has just left a messagefor a former colleague at Producers,who for the most part havebeen colleagues at Sally, now producing Jane Whitney, demanding that he somepoint in their careers(the business is only slightlyless delay broadcasting a show that features a guest who has incestuousthan thefamilies it putson the air), havediscard- agreed to appear first on Montel. ed their unwritten codeof conduct, and in a new climate of Like many in the business, Duffy earned her chops at Sally fear,mistrust and deceptionare hardly speaking. and can even trace the beginning of a major upheaval in the "It getsvery, very ugly," saysMary Duffy, thesupervising industry to a specific show she produced there. "Oprah had

78.US FEBRUARY 1994 TALK, TALK, TALK: Pressure-cooker deadlines and the bruising battle for viewers mean daytime-talk producers do triple duty (clockwise from top leltll. Sally produc- er Rose Mary Henri cues an on-camera Raphael,while backstage, fellow "Sally personttAmy Rosenblum interviews prospective guests; Montei producer Mary Duffy whips up the studio audience with help from the host; Donahueproducer Pat McMillen in a pre-show huddle with the boss. Rudzki, is also crying. During a break she TElrYHRS [G0 1r mS SH0GrflilG whispers, "No matter how rnany times you read the story, when you actually hear it, you just lose it." T0sEE ITRffiSSilU[t 011 Speaking live from Yemen, via phone, with her family onstage in the studio, the guest is recounting in tearful detail her ilItilst0il,"|lilE PR||DUGER stYs.attempts to bring her children back from that country, where they were taken ille- lT'sulG,0t, BIG llHL" gally by her Yemeni ex-husband. It's a "ll0t heartbreaking story, a point driven home again and again and again by the showrs just come on the scene,"recalls Duffy, swiveling in her chair, "fol- insistent replay of the despondent mother's suicide attempts, ''We lowed by Maury, Montel and the others. It was like, have to captured on video in a Yemeni hotel room days earlier, after the come up with something different."' On a plane to Arizona for a failure of her first rescuemission. remote broadcast, her then boss, Burt DuBrow, asked what her Later, in her office, Frillici, a fortysomething former high school first show was going to be. teacher, recounts her arrival at Maury. "I tried to get into televi- "Mistresses," answeredDuffy with some satisfaction. sion 20 years ago, but they wouldn't hire women." So she taught "Oh?" he said. "And what will you do to make it go over the history instead and was a "talk-show addict" in her off hours. Five top? I7hat about the other side?" years ago, when her daughter enlistedher as a volunteer atalerry Shethought he was joking but soon realizedhe wasn't. He want- Lewis Telethon, Frillici discovered that television's gender barriers ed her to convince the cheated-on wife to face her nemesis on were gone. A couple of communications coursesand internships national television. "seventeen phone calls later I got her," says Iater, she landed a job at Sally. "This was my dream," says Frillici, the still-incredulous Duffy. "It was amazing television.One of our seatedat her desk. highest-rated shows ever, " "It was," saysDuBrow, "a helluva show.1' HEN HE LAUNCHED HIS SHOTr, POVICH LURED And the birth of a new genre: conflict television. DuBrow and Frillici from Sally for her ability to get the Duffy changed the course of talk w forever. Now there were fwo tough stories.Her biggestcoup to date sidesto every story (and, notes Duffy, a doubled workload). Soon was convincingMarilyn Beers,the mother all the shows fell into line with the I-caught-my-mother-in-bed-with- of the Long Island girl imprisonedin a my-boyfriend, my-husband-goes-to-gay-bars, everybody-I-have-a- dungeon beneaththe garageof a family baby-with-my-sister-has-a-baby-with-too shows. The last show was friend, to be on the show last year. "The biggestjoy of the Amy Rosenblum's baptism by fire at Sally: "They were cursing at story," saysFrillici, "was when they told me that a caravanof each other from the minute they came out, and I literally thought I cars from the other shows was following her on her way to do was going to get fired," recalls Rosenblum, 36. "Then I looked at us. To me, that's fair game,because it's a sport at that point." ''$fhoa, Mary Duffy, and she was like, great show!' " But ask her about her show's tactics in the implant-woman affair, andshe demurs. "It wasn'tmy show," shesays. *TiTHAT '!7AS UT THE FORMULA HAS ITS LIMITS. An industryinsider blames the greatdecline in civility on the unique to Sally becamemishmashed all over the entry of Povichinto the talk sweepstakes.The ex-anchorof A Cur- place,"says the 43-year-oldDuBrow. "All the rent Affair apparentlydidn't forget his bag of tricks when he left showsbegan to look the same."In the pastyear, Fox, "That's whenthe climatechanged," says Barry Poznick,24, Sally has moved away from the conflict a former associateproducer at Sally, now a producer at Joan approach."Maybe we crossedthe line," he con- Riuers,who handled- literally and figuratively- the implant cedes."'We were competingtoo much, and the word exploitation fiasco("She gave me herbreasts in a mayonnaisejar," hereveals, 'We've probably was here with us. got families too, you know. "over dinner"). "That's when it becameacceptable to be a little \7e haveto sleepat night." moreunderhanded." Duffy, who left Sally last year for a senior spot at Montel, is a Insidersarrange talk showsin "tiers," and Oprah owns the classicexample of the talk producer:tough, smart,warm when she top. rilfith an audienceof tt.z million, she'sway abovethe dirty has to be and single.Producers rarely havetime for dinner, let dealingson either coast.Just below, in the middle tier, are Sally alonefamilies. "You giveup a lot for this," shesays with a sigh. (5.7 million viewers),Donahue (5.5 million) and Geraldo (4.4 "It takesup your whole life." Justthen the phonerings. It's Rob million). The bottom tier, wheresuccess is measuredin yearson Dauber,the Jane producer she's battling with overthe guest."You the air, is occupied by Maury, Montel, Jenny Jones and Jerry know I trust you guys," saysDuffy to the producer she once Springer,each with three years on the air. Even with two years, workedwith, "I just can't be screwedon this." Jane Whitney is eons ahead of newcomersThe Ricki Lake Hangingup the phone,Duffy is triumphant."Great!" shesays, Show,TheLes Brown Shou andThe BerticeBerry Show. "I got it in writing. You gotta." The disputedguest? A woman who Producersfind guestsby scanningnewspaper headlines (one pores saysshe invented a lovepotion. over small-townFlorida papersfor the "weirdest,strangest stuff") and letterswritten to the show,by solicitingthem on the air and by LIZ FRILLICI, TEARS IN HER EYES,IS ECSTATIC. TURNING AWAY FROM networking contacts (bartenders,private-detective services) and the Maury stage, she wipes her eyes and furiously scribbles friendson the outside.But a producer'shardest job is convincingthe another question for Povich to ask, guaranteed to produce anoth- big names,the Amy Fishersand theJohn'Wayne Bobbitts, to come er flood of tears from the guest. Frillici's associateproducer,lzzy on their show insteadof Oprah's. The producersof Oprah,

80.us ptsnuARY1994 Above:For 20 Of all the producers interviewed for this article, only McMillen years,Liz Frillici is forthcoming about paying guests.The rest deny it with a song taught high school and dance worthy of a Daytime Emmy - despite what in many history, watched casesis compelling evidence to the cofitrary . J ane's Chermol, after talk shows in her being confronted with the facts regarding a certain group of boys hours off and calledthe Spur Posse(three ofwhom said they eachreceived $1,000 dreamt of being to appear on the show), said, "\Well, if we've paid one in one hun- where the action is. dred guests,that's a lot." Her dream led to a No question, the Spur Possemembers were one in a hundred. production job at From Southern California, theseall-American boys createda scor- Maury.feft Sally ing systembased on the number of girls they had sex with. Nine of Jessy Raphaelwith them, aged 15 to 18, were arrested on charges including rape by producers Rose intimidation and child molestation (their youngest allegedvictim Mary Henri and was 10), and the producers went into a feeding frenzy. (The charges Amy Rosenblum. were eventually dropped.) "It's a horrible story if it's true," says Barry Poznick of Joan Donahue and Sally can ride the coatrails of a hard-earned trust in Riuers, "but from a producer's point of view: They're goodJook- their nationally recognized hosts; not so the competition. ing, they could talk, they're like every jock in every high school in "You have to implore them and becometheir best friend," says America. It was perfect." lane's Cathy Chermol, 32. "You have to make them think if they Once the talk shows turned their sights on the Posse,the ever- don't do it, they're letting you down. It's all in the way you work competitive members turned their sights on who could ger on rhe them on the phone." most shows for the most money. Or maybe you could just pay them. Last year, for the first time "It was shameful," saysJoyce Shehan, one of the Possemoms in 26 years of talking, Phil Donahue, one of the most respected who pleaded with the producers not to put her son on, Another, names in the business,paid a guest. Yes, saysPat McMillen, 50- Diane Howard, saysher two sons "were out of the house and in a ish, who's been with him since day one, she felt compromised by limousine an hour and ahalf after they said yes to Mawry. I mean, the $25,000given to each of the cops who beat up Rodney King. out, packed, gone." 'Everyone "But," she sayswith a sigh, "Phil didn't. He said: else Oprah, Donabue, Sally and,Montel all booked the Posse,but is doing it. \7e aren't in the ballgame if we don't.' " backed out when the boys demanded fContinued on page 901

US FEBRUARY 1994.81 Don't miss the "expense money to cover fTalk Shows,"cont. from page 81] money, provided with opting to do Posse-relatedstories instead. incidentals such as transportation, meals Performance "Let the other shows havethem," saysBurt and phone calls." And Povich's alleged DuBrow. "Ve're not playing that game." promise to "hook up" the PosserT'ith the his staff? "Ludicrous." ofa Joining the chorus of indignation, Mary women on Duffy glowers and says, "These boys say Asfor lane'sdeal with the boys, Chermol they're scoringpoints for having sex with says:"-We gave them travel and shirts from Lifetime! - women, and we're going to PaY them?! the Gap which we were totally criticized That's not why I'm in the business!" for. They weren't given a check from the Albert con- Apparently, notso lenny Jones, Jane and show." Possemember Chris Maury. firms Chermol's "no checks" assertion: Self-proclaimed Spur Posse founding "Right after the show," saysAlbert, "they member Dana Belman explains. "We didn't gave us ten $100bills apiece." Calling his say we weren't coming on unlesswe Bot four days tnder Jane's care "awesome," ''We're money, we just said, gotng on The Albert says, "The thousand bucks doesn't they're giving us $500.' evenaccount for half the stuff they gave us. Home Showbecause 'We need pocket change the whole Then Jenny Jones said,'!7e'll give you didn't $1,500if you come on us first."' time we were there." "They were treated like kings," says a OVICHMADE MOREENTICING disgustedMrs. Howard. "It wasn't to find of{ers. "He tried to set us out the truth, it was all for ratings." up with the girls that IigITH worked on his show," THE POSSEMEMBERS BUBBLE OVER FOND claims Billy Shehan, 19 at memories of their talk-show tour, but not all 'I got guestsare so appreciative.Last September, looklor (hevrolef's0fliciol Guide lo the time. "He said: girls, and they're all single. I take pride in soap opera star Brent Jasmertook a hit on 'They'll rhet9e4 Grammy Awards my women.' It was like, want to both sides in the daytime talk-show war. hook up, too,'You know?" \(hile his show,The Bold and the Beautiful, in fheMorch issue of Maury flew eight of the Posse nine to teeteredon the brink ofcancellation, a casu- surge, his personal life was US fn. EnferfoinmenfMogozine. New York and sequesteredthem in a hotel alty of the talk under assumednames - for eight days (the irreparably changedby Geraldo. show was on hiatus and didn't want to lose The adopted son of a couple from Ore- Tune in tothe 36th Annuol them). But the Mawry people,whom you'd gon, the 2B-year-oldactor was reunited have thought would have learned from with his birth mother and sisteron Geraldo GrommyAwords on March 1, - Sal/y'smistakes, didn't leavethe boys under against his wishes. "Looking back now, 8 PMESI on rhe CBS lelevisionnelwotk. lock and key. Three of the Posse,realizing I think, Oh, God, how could I have beenso they could do better than the $110 a day stupid?" says Jasmer, who went on the Maury waspaying (with a promise of $:oo show. he contends, only after he received Enferfhe Performance producers after taping), calledJane. They sent a limo. repeated assurances from the of a Lifetime Sweepstakes "I certainly wasn't going to say no," says that they wouldn't try to find his mother or Chermol, elaborating that she'd previous- reunite him with her. in fhe0fficiol (hevrolef Grommy Guide. Iy asked the Maury people for the boys The actor, who's been conducting his when they were finished and was turned own search for years, appeared with his adoptive parents,he said, "to publicize a . Youond o guesfcould win on down cold. "They tried to get them back," she con- positive adoption and tell millions of all expense paid fripfor fwo tinues, "but I had a producer sleepingwith adopteeslike myself that searchingis oK." them in the hotel. That's the key: Once you But it backfired when Geraldo stunned the forhe concert performance have them, you can't leave their side." family by introducing his biological moth- Indeed. That producer took his underage er and a sister he never knew existed. of a lifetimel my chargesfor a night on the town, winding up Jasmer'sfirst reaction was "to take at Texas Gold, a Manhattan strip club. "He parents and get the hell out of there" Look for details in probably blew a grand on us that night," (Geraldo immediately put the mike in the March issue of US marvels Chris Albert, 18 at the time. Jasmer'sadoptive mother's face and asked, To ensure no more defections from his "How do you feel now?"), but he didn't On Newsstands camp, the Maury people increased their want to hurt his birth mother. So he sat remaining Posse members' per diems to frozen, "as my life flashed before my eyes." him that Februarv 15th $210 (paid by check' for which they were Later, his biological mother told transported first thing each morning to a after she'd been notified of his existence, he Presentedby check-cashingestablishment), according to she read in a soap opera magazine that with her on tele- Possemember Jeff Howard. didn't want to be reunited A spokesperson for Maury deniespaying vision so she tried to back out. The Geraldo Possemembers, and says the boys were people told her it was an old article, says UHEVROLET#7 Jasmer,"and that I had changedmy mind." bags, napkins, tissues - "the first thing they very personal on a show I was producing," The actor, who plans to sue the show, is could get their hands on," says Donahwe's saysAmy Rosenblum ol Sally, "but after it astounded by the show's deception but says Pat McMillen. "Those are the best kind." was over I decided it would have been too the emotional wounds and manipulation It can't be denied that the medium has hurtful to someonein my family." by the host cut the deepest."I'd beenantic- helped people. Even savedlives. In the ear- Only one producer, dropping her official ipating this moment for about 26 years," ly days of talk TV, Donahue put an alco- facade under a guarantee of anonymity, says Jasmer. "'What gave him the right holic on the air and bis phone lines lit up admits misgivings. "You don't know if ...to alter my life like he did?" with people saying, "God, it's not just me." their story will help someone else," she '!7e Within a month of Jasmer'sappearance, The phoneskept ringing through the years says."'We're not trained psychologists. two women claim they were similarly as one show after another exposed the don't really know what's going to happen deceived by Geraldo. The sisters-in-law details of drug addiction, sexual abuseand to this person. You go home and deal with agreed to appear on a show about in-law eating disorders. The hidden ills of society next week's show, they have to go home problems but only after being promised that have been brought to the forefront of the and deal with their lives." their abusive brother-in-law wouldn't ao- nation's consciousnessvia talk shows, and Even the consolation Brent Jasmer, the pear. Guesswhat? They also plan ro sue. America has learned through watching and soap star suing Geraldo, took in a produc- Geraldo spokesperson Jeff Erdel calls Iistening how to help itself. er's confession to him after the show that \X/e Jasmer's charges "completely false. Each producer has a list of victories. Liz she "just can't do this anymore" is punc- thought we did something very nice for an Frillici of Maury: an 11-year-old girl who tured by another producer's scornful individual that was trying to find his moth- spoke up about being sexually abused and explanation: "That's just a ploy. They say er. There was positively no attempt to inspired a slew of others to do the same.Pat that to everyone." deceiveanybody. " McMillen: a woman who walked out of an How do "the people" feel about what abusivemarriage after watching Donahue. US Masazine (ISSN 014'-510X) is published rnonrhlr br US Magazine Company, L.P., 1290 Avenue of'rhi they do? Ask them and they'll tell you Cathy Chermol of lane: a woman who Amcricas, New York. NY 10104-0298. The entire conrenrs of US Magazine-L.P., are copyrighr O lc94 bv U5 Mreazile they're providing a kind of national therapy promised to stop having unsafe sex. The Cornpany, ard rnay rior-be repr(,duced in any minner, eirher whole or in parr, wrrhour pcrmission. service.Says Sal/y's Rose Mary Henri: "They Sally producers: a Ku Klux Klan member writtcn All 'Look rights are reserved. Thc srrbscriprinn orice is $23.95 for one say, at th^t person. They went year and $43.95 for rwo ycars.' The tcncdirn subscriprion on who, after facing a hostile audience, re- pricc is $29.c- lor one yecr includinc CST. oavable in Sally, and now the therapist is helping them. nounced her ways on a follow-up show. advance. The furcrgn subscriprion price- is $34.97'for onc ycar, prlablc in advrncc. Secdnd-cliss posragc paid ar Ncw I need to do that. Sally wlll help me.' " Ask producers if they'd go on their shows, York, NY, and addirional mailing offices. Cinrdian Second Class PosragePermir #9319 plid ar Wirrdsor,Onrrrio, however, and they stiffen. The one who did, Canada. Canada Goods and SbrvicesTax Reeistrction no. R125042689. International Publications Mail Salcs Product AND THEY HA\IE LETTERS.LETTERS THAT ARE in a rare moment of spontaneity,pulled her Agreement No. 450561. POSTMASTER: Send address changes to US Customer Service, P.O. Box 58677, Boulder, pinned above desks, letters written on grocery spot at the last minute. "I sharedsomething co 80322-8667.

N THE NEW ISSIJEof Ilolling Stone, our man in Nirvana,Kurt Cobain, rageson (and on) about star- dom, fatherhood,the death of grunge and why he's never beenhappier in his life.t,t,[ rs: Pearl Jam, IJ2, Soul Asylum and Beavisand Butt-head top the 1993 Music Awards. And the losers?Meat Loaf, StoneTemple Pilots,Whitney Houstonand ...Beavisand Butt-head.# oN sALENov o\- -:i3J€'';r l':l i;]}i;L aq Plno^r J{-\o6 ::i-::i ra8 a:aq-s sI snlf - aqs ..'passarprm 1 sessel€lJu s''"'!r; e seJ?q .{le,lurnpas PuE lx Plor lleq req urra'opsrai a:oo14')lf,eqqs?Ll uE )::-'r esoq'^ lsll?ulnot iqSrrdn 1n;ured .,^AaJJ aq1rol sujr': ' aqr ul pesseJc Pasnu? selnf,exalror -eseq-ure8req'r sllEl eqs l?qnA 01 laf,nPorcl tuo' L11e:rseqs.req'/\{ ur) ssa:lre loJ lsal aqoJpr€'!\ lrrl aqs uaq'A'\laol\ lxeu 'poo8 '(1 -uof, tole'I t ,,'s\lfid K'\'tputs "i:a'r Jaqu! ,Surppe'asa-.rarnPo:d-duluorulsaq '>Pns ' 'qgrolqsy lou PIP tl' .rilPq1dols srBls.pllql aqrJo ; nTe'ua q7 pup moN Jo ' 'sa soulq'^ 1I" uorsy q8relqsv "i?a4?ns ,duedruoc uorlcnpo.rd PeluelJo-aleura-I' 's'l' SulrEradortrou st :aq;o sr8ae3qr JaPun

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1994 6.US FEBRUARY