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Hearing Transcript S. Hrg. 108–755 REORGANIZING AMERICA’S INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY: A VIEW FROM THE INSIDE HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED EIGHTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION AUGUST 16, 2004 Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs ( U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 95–507 PDF WASHINGTON : 2005 For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800 Fax: (202) 512–2250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402–0001 VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:30 Mar 02, 2005 Jkt 095507 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 5011 Sfmt 5011 C:\DOCS\95507.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PHOGAN COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman TED STEVENS, Alaska JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio CARL LEVIN, Michigan NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois ROBERT F. BENNETT, Utah THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware PETER G. FITZGERALD, Illinois MARK DAYTON, Minnesota JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire FRANK LAUTENBERG, New Jersey RICHARD C. SHELBY, Alabama MARK PRYOR, Arkansas MICHAEL D. BOPP, Staff Director and Chief Counsel MICHAEL STERN, Deputy Staff Director for Investigations DAVID KASS, Chief Investigative Counsel JOYCE A. RECHTSCHAFFEN, Minority Staff Director and Counsel KEVIN J. LANDY, Minority Counsel AMY B. NEWHOUSE, Chief Clerk (II) VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:30 Mar 02, 2005 Jkt 095507 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 C:\DOCS\95507.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PHOGAN C O N T E N T S Opening statements: Page Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 1 Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 2 Senator Roberts ................................................................................................ 4 Senator Rockefeller .......................................................................................... 6 Senator Voinovich ............................................................................................. 31 Senator Levin .................................................................................................... 34 Senator Coleman .............................................................................................. 37 Senator Durbin ................................................................................................. 40 Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 43 Senator Dayton ................................................................................................. 46 WITNESSES MONDAY, AUGUST 16, 2004 Hon. William H. Webster, Former Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Former Director of Central Intelligence, Senior Partner, Milbank, Tweed, Hadley and McCloy, LLP ..................................................................................... 9 Hon. R. James Woolsey, Former Director of Central Intelligence, Vice Presi- dent, Booz Allen Hamilton .................................................................................. 13 Hon. Stansfield Turner, Former Director of Central Intelligence, Professor, School of Public Policy, University of Maryland ................................................ 18 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES Turner, Hon. Stansfield: Testimony .......................................................................................................... 18 Webster, Hon. William H.: Testimony .......................................................................................................... 9 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 51 Woolsey, Hon. R. James: Testimony .......................................................................................................... 13 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 62 APPENDIX Robert M. Gates, Former Director of Central Intelligence, prepared state- ment ...................................................................................................................... 73 Questions and Responses for Mr. Webster from: Senator Voinovich ............................................................................................. 86 Senator Levin .................................................................................................... 89 Senator Durbin ................................................................................................. 94 Questions and Responses for Mr. Woolsey from: Senator Voinovich ............................................................................................. 97 Senator Levin .................................................................................................... 100 Senator Durbin ................................................................................................. 106 Questions for Mr. Turner from: (Responses to these questions were not re- ceived by press time.) Senator Voinovich ............................................................................................. 110 Senator Levin .................................................................................................... 112 Senator Durbin ................................................................................................. 116 (III) VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:30 Mar 02, 2005 Jkt 095507 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 C:\DOCS\95507.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PHOGAN VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:30 Mar 02, 2005 Jkt 095507 PO 00000 Frm 00004 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 C:\DOCS\95507.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PHOGAN REORGANIZING AMERICA’S INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY: A VIEW FROM THE INSIDE MONDAY, AUGUST 16, 2004 U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:35 a.m., in room SD–342 Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Susan M. Collins, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. Present: Senators Collins, Lieberman, Voinovich, Coleman, Sununu, Levin, Durbin, Carper, and Dayton. Also present: Senators Roberts and Rockefeller OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN COLLINS Chairman COLLINS. The Committee will come to order. I want to welcome not only our witnesses today and the Members of the Gov- ernmental Affairs Committee who have rearranged their schedules to be here, which I very much appreciate in light of the urgency of our task, but I also want to recognize that we are joined today by the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the distin- guished Senator from Kansas, Senator Roberts. And that we expect shortly the Ranking Member of that committee, Senator Rocke- feller, to also join us. I felt that since the Senate Intelligence Committee has so much expertise in this area, and we are hearing from three former Direc- tors of the CIA, that it would be appropriate for the Chairman and the Ranking Member of that committee to join us today, and I am very pleased that they have done so, and we welcome you, Senator Roberts. Today, the Governmental Affairs Committee holds its third hear- ing on the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission calling for a restructuring of the Intelligence Community. At our last hearing, on August 3, we explored the National Counterterrorism Center proposal. The testimony that we heard from experienced intel- ligence officers and from key Commission staff will help us greatly on that component of our task. Today, we will focus upon the proposal for a National Intel- ligence Director. No other component of the Commission’s rec- ommendations has received as much comment and debate as the proposed National Intelligence Director. There is considerable, but by no means unanimous, support for the notion that putting in place a National Intelligence Director will help strengthen our in- telligence system. There is a considerable range of opinion, how- ever, about the details of that position, including how it should be (1) VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:30 Mar 02, 2005 Jkt 095507 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\95507.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PHOGAN 2 structured, where the Director should work and what authority this individual should have. It is the task of this Committee to draft legislation that would ensure that the NIDs of today, and for years to come, have suffi- cient authority to do the job effectively, while at the same time being subject to the restraints necessary, the oversight and ac- countability, to keep the position within the bounds of our constitu- tional system of checks and balances. In other words, we want to create a position with real, not just symbolic authority, yet not im- pose just another layer of bureaucracy nor grant so much power that we open the door to abuse. The details that we must fill in are many, and we have gen- erated vigorous debate, as they should. These are among the ques- tions we will ask. What powers does this new position need to be effective against the threat we face today and the threats we will face in the future? What safeguards should be included to ensure the independence of the National Intelligence Director? For exam- ple, where should this new office be located? Should the NID serve a fixed term, as does the FBI Director or serve at the pleasure of the President? Should the Director have deputies that are respon- sible for leading intelligence efforts elsewhere in government, in- cluding some who
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