p.1

Frank Brennan

Bob Murphy: [0:01] OK, here we go. One second. Ready to go here. Five, four, three, two, one, go. [0:12] Hello again, everybody. Bob Murphy, and continuing conversations with the great names in Stanford sports. Obviously, as this is being recorded in 2004, before school resumes in the fall, some incredible stuff has been taken place. Frank Brennan is with me.

[0:30] My gosh, Frank, 10 Director's Cups in a row at this place. There are lots of great schools in this country. There are lots of great schools trying to win that Director's Cup. For any one school to win that thing 10 times in a row is, I think, off the charts. How about you?

Frank Brennan: [0:48] Yeah. That's pretty amazing. I don't know how we do it to be honest with you. Because there are so many schools out there. You'd think that somebody would jump up at some point. We seem to be winning it, and winning it fairly handily. So I guess we got something going here on in the farm.

Murphy: [1:01] Now, this fellow I'm talking to, long time women's tennis coach here, Francis Xavier Brennan. If I remember my early teaching, Saint Francis liked birds and little animals. You and your dad, with those wonderful baptized names, were more interested in tennis balls, tennis rackets, and people who can play the game. Have I got that just about right?

Brennan: [1:25] Just about right. I was very fortunate; my dad was a tennis pro, teaching pro, at a club. He got into it sort of how I got into it in that he was walking around in the neighborhood in Patterson, New Jersey. A couple guys stopped him and said, "You make 50 cents today? We need somebody to sweep the courts on our club right here." [1:44] It was around the corner from his house, and he started to do that, and started to play a little bit with these guys. And next thing you know, he gave up almost all the other sports and got into tennis, luckily for me. And he went on to be a great player and a great coach.

[1:59] When I came along, he naturally got me into it. I was a baseball player until I was about 11. And then he kept bringing me out to the tennis courts and making me play. And about 12 or 13 I really got bitten. And that was it.

[2:11] So it's been a long career. And of course, my son is the assistant coach here now at Stanford. My father, unfortunately, didn't live to see that. But he lived to see me be the coach here and win a few championships. So that was wonderful. But he sure would be proud of my son and Frankie.

Murphy: [2:30] Frank, sons who follow their fathers into a profession, or a game, sometimes the father encourages the son; sometimes the son wants it naturally. There's p.2

always an interesting chemistry between a father and a son. I know that first hand. [laughs] So, I speak from experience. But talk about that a little bit more.

Brennan: [2:49] Well, my father was very encouraging. I don't know exactly what he was thinking about for me. I guess he thought I was athletic. He loved tennis. He was really self-taught. [2:58] That was the unusual thing about him. He was such a great technician, but he was really self-taught. Read a few books and he went to Forrest Hills, in the old days; every day and just watched match after match after match.

[3:11] I don't know what exactly he wanted from me; probably wanted a free education for me which was a pretty good deal. For my son it was sort of the same thing. I knew that we were good at this. We knew how to teach tennis in my family. I figured my son is also extremely athletic. Coaching is a great profession. You never have to grow up really. You can stay in athletics.

[3:36] So, Frankie went on and played competitively pretty well. Eventually got into coaching when he was done playing, and he was very good at it right from the beginning. So, it was just like that's perfect. He was a natural and able to succeed right away. Basically, his first job was here at Stanford as my assistant about nine years ago. So he's been on the staff for while.

Murphy: [4:01] And he's a very, very popular guy, as you have always been around here. Frankie's fun to be around and always so helpful. He's a real addition to the tennis program on both sides.

Brennan: [4:13] Yeah, I'm really proud of him. He's very good at what he does. He's a great guy. He does love you, Murph. So, whatever you're feeling, it's a little more than everybody else feels. But, he does put you on a pedestal.

Murphy: [4:24] I don't owe him any money do I? [laughs]

Brennan: [4:26] No, no.

Murphy: [4:28] Frank, let's just briefly, for the folks there, just to set this straight. You were here for 21 years. You coached for 21 years. You only had one college coaching job in your life. Boy, did you make the best of it. Absolutely incredible. [4:44] Your teams won 510 and only lost 50, that's over 90 percent you're winning. Better than nine out of every ten matches your teams every played in 21 years, unheard of. Ten national championships, NCAA championships.

[4:58] You had nine brilliant young ladies who won national NCAA single titles. You had four doubles teams. You had perfect records in 1982, 84, 89 and 90, and of course that included national championships. Just absolutely amazing.

[5:13] Now, the question. What did you do before? Because obviously, you had an introduction to tennis. But somehow I want to trace for all those folks listening right now, that path or combination of paths that led you from Hackensack, New Jersey or Fort Lauderdale, Florida all the way out here to Palo Alto. p.3

Brennan: [5:34] Well, I started teaching privately back in the New York, New Jersey area. I had a lot of good students. They were boys and girls. And one of them, Lele Ferood, was making her college choice at a certain point and I said, "Geez, you've got to go out to Stanford. That will be great for you."

Murphy: [5:52] Why did you say that? You're three thousand miles away, why did you say that?

Brennan: [5:57] Well, I had . . .

Murphy: [5:58] How about Duke or North Carolina?

Brennan: [6:00] I was sort of a closet Stanford fan.

Murphy: [6:01] How about Indiana? [laughs]

Brennan: [6:02] How about Indiana? They're probably upset with me that I didn't send her there which is where I went to school. But way back when, when I was a kid, I had some contact with Jackie Douglas. I thought it was just cool that he was a tennis player and a football player. He just didn't play tennis. And I was playing other sports. I sort of looked up to him for that. [6:23] And then, Bob Mathias was one of my childhood heroes and he went to Stanford. So, it was sort of a coincidence. Here I am in Fairlawn, New Jersey growing up, but I knew a lot about Stanford through these two athletes. And it was just a pretty cool place from what I could tell never having been out here.

[6:40] And when Lele became ready for college, I pushed her to come out here and she wanted to stay in Florida a little bit, but she came out and had a great career. And she, of course, went on. I had taught her since she was 10 years old and she went on to be the assistant coach and now the very successful head coach.

[6:57] But, then additionally, there was a fellow by the name of John Rast and he was from Saint Petersburg, Florida where I was teaching. He was making the same decision a couple of years after Lele.

[7:08] I said, "Well, you know, if Coach Gould calls you, you've got to go to Stanford. That's the greatest school in the world. The greatest athletic department." And Dick came out. and we recruited him. We had a few beers in my living room one night, and we sort of hit it off and I certainly remembered him and I guess he remembered me.

Murphy: [7:25] It's kind of the Irish -- it wouldn't have been Guinness, would it?

Brennan: [7:28] No. I think it was Miller Lite, actually. [laughter]

Murphy: [7:32] OK.

Brennan: [7:33] But, he was very diligent. I was very impressed with him. And of course, I had heard of Dick. He had a good reputation, nationally. So, it was fun to meet him and see what a great guy he was. [7:44] Then, not too long after that the job opened p.4

up. Ann Gould, my predecessor, had been here very successful and the job opened up. And Lele was actually the one who told me about it.

[7:59] She came back to my tennis camp in New Jersey and was working out and said, "You know the job is open at Stanford." And I said, "Well, that's something I always wanted to do." Like jump out of an airplane and play the drums.

[8:09] And my wife, of course, being a go-getter said, "Well, why don't you apply? Get your resume going right now." So, long story short, I sent something out to Dick who was my only contact out here.

[8:19] And said, " I'm interested. I don't know if you have to hire a woman or not. But, if you don't have to hire a woman, I'd be interested." So shortly after that, I got the call from Stanford to come out for an interview and see if they were interested or not. And it worked out really well.

Murphy: [8:35] I'm thinking about the athletic directors then going from Joe Ruetz to Andy Geiger about that time.

Brennan: [8:39] Right. Andy was the fellow who hired me. It was wonderful. I came out. I had not seen the campus before. I had been to northern California many times but had not seen the campus, so I was blown away. [8:51] I thought it was just greater than I even imagined it to be, and when I got the job it was a little scary, initially. My first college job, and I didn't really know about running a 12-person team. I was good at the little clinics, or one or two people at a time, and mostly one at a time.

[9:10] So, that was quite a changeover for me, but Dick was extremely generous. He shared everything with me. He included me in everything. My learning curve was extremely steep because of that. He was able to just impart a lot of knowledge that it would have taken me a lot longer to get.

Murphy: [9:28] Well, this is amusing to me because Bob Mathias was a classmate, longtime friend from the time we were freshmen 100 years ago. Of course, Dick Gould a fraternity brother and a great friend forever. [9:39] And Jackie Douglas, another fraternity brother who almost got Stanford, got Stanford within an inch and a half of the Rose Bowl in 1957. A Davis Cup player and a great, great athlete, and then became a real estate mogul, one of the big-time guys in Southern California.

[9:54] So, I know all of these guys, and I feel like I'm part of the story now.

Brennan: [9:57] Well, I had heard of those two, but I never heard of you, Murph. You'll have to write a book or win the decathlon or something. [laughter]

Murphy: [10:04] This is the book, pal. This is the Frank Brennan chapter of the book right now. So, you came out here and you settled into this coaching business, a brand-new occupation for you. What an exciting adventure, huh?

Brennan: [10:16] Yeah, it really was. I remember, I thought the facility was great in those days. Of course now, you look back on it and say, "God, it was prehistoric." But I p.5

remember the wall outside. It's not the same wall that's there now. But on the wall, we had...we...Dick had the year and the championships; but also, if you were runner-up, you were on the wall. [10:39] Anne Gould had won a couple, and she was up there. I looked at that wall and I thought, "God, would that be great. After coaching here for a while, if I could get up on that wall somehow, and then bring my grandson by, years later, and point out that 1997 runner-up. That was Grandpa's year. That was the year we coached."

[11:00] We did a little better than that,, but I remember looking at that wall thinking, "I want to put my stamp on this place, somehow, some way."

Murphy: [11:07] They had to make a bigger wall as I remember it. [laughter]

Brennan: [11:10] Well, we had to make a bigger wall, and we also eliminated all the runner-up finishes. Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to put it on there. I just walked by it right now, and it's really super impressive.

Murphy: [11:20] Yeah. Frank, talk about that a little bit, because I mentioned Joe Ruetz a moment ago. Women's sports came along in 1975, and Joe became the athletic director after two Rose Bowls, `71, `72. Chuck Taylor slipped into retirement and Joe came back, as a former assistant to Chuck Taylor, as the athletic director. [11:40] Title IX was just on the forefront at that point. Joe was a great mover for Title IX. He realized that this was something that was very important, that Stanford had the full capacity to really do something for women's sports.

[11:54] So, it wasn't exactly a tidal wave, but there was a big surge of enthusiasm as young women -- very bright, young, talented young women -- started coming to Stanford. Among them, some outstanding tennis players who you coached.

Brennan: [12:10] Well, I used to use that in my recruiting. I said, "Stanford, everybody is equal. The men and the women are equal. There's no women's locker, women's training room and men's training room. There's no men's athletic director and women's athletic director."

Murphy: [12:22] Yeah.

Brennan: [12:23] I said, "Sandra Day O'Connor on Supreme Court is a Stanford woman. You read about this gal who is the first one to go up and be an astronaut."

Murphy: [12:32] Sally Ride.

Brennan: [12:33] Guess what? Sally Ride from Stanford University, and a tennis player.

Murphy: [12:35] Sure.

Brennan: [12:36] So, I said, "This is not only the place to be if you're a unique person, but especially if you're a woman. I think you get treated so well here." And I think being a male coach kind of helped me a little bit. [12:48] I was able to say, "Look. I'm not used to second-class treatment. I've been a man my whole life, so I'm used to first-class treatment, and believe me, this is first-class treatment. You're not going to go there and p.6

be shunted off behind the football guys when you're trying to get taped or something." So, I thought it was a good selling point.

Murphy: [13:04] Stanford's first women's team actually was in 1975. Curly Neal just had a one-year run at it. She had a perfect 11-0 record. And then, Anne Gould came on for `76, `77, `78, `79, and she had a great go at it also.

Brennan: [13:21] She did.

Murphy: [13:21] And then, you came along; and, boy, it really was a surge. It was really exciting. In fact, let's just get right to the heart of the matter. Nine champions and we'll talk about all these young ladies, you know, in short-term, because we don't have the time to cover. [13:37] But Alycia Moulton, and Linda Gates, and Patty Fendick-McCain. Patty, now the coach of the women's team up at Washington, outstanding. I visited with her last Fall when we played up at Washington. Sandra Birch, Debbie Graham, Sandra Birch again. Lilia Osterloh.

[13:53] And Laura Granville; and then Laura went on after you'd retired and won the NCAA championship again. I mean, but ten team titles, nine women who played at the top of their game to win national championships, unheard of. How do you do stuff like that?

Brennan: [14:09] Well you know, you mention those 510 wins and 50 losses, and like every other coach, I think it's hysterical. I remember every one of those losses, and 25 of them we shouldn't have had, for sure. I screwed up somehow. But it's interesting. [14:23] You remember all the wins, or most of the wins, anyway. But you certainly remember some of the losses. And the losses really hurt, and I think that's what sort of drives you on, is you don't want to go through that again.

[14:34] And the players we had. We are very fortunate to have great players and great competitors. And Dick had a reputation for a long time for bringing his team to the NCAAs at the end of the season in tip-top shape and ready to go.

[14:49] I tried to work on that type of thing also, and we were able to do that, lots of years we won it when we had lost 4-5 matches during the course of the season. So we had great competitors. These girls wanted to win, and just point them in the right direction.

Murphy: [15:03] Frank, there's a real similarity here because Lele came along, who kind of had something to do with introducing you to the job or was part of all that. Then she follows you and she has won three national championships in four years. When you came here, you won national championships in three of your first four years. [15:21] And what was really interesting about that when I went to school here, and for years after that, it was just a question of SC or UCLA winning the national championship. Trinity, maybe once in a while they would rise up, but it was SC and UCLA.

[15:36] The teams you beat, your first national championship in 1982, you beat UCLA. The next year you beat USC. The year after that you beat USC. And finally, a school p.7

called Georgia got into it and you won that one, too. Talk about that. Beating SC and UCLA for a national championship was major league stuff, and it still is.

Brennan: [15:57] Yeah, we were fortunate in that my first couple of years, UCLA was not that great. They were not...they were good, but not great. So we were able to hang with them a little bit. [16:08] USC had truly one of the greatest teams of all time back in those days. We didn't know how to stop them. We tried to win two matches out of the nine. You know, just something to hang our hat on and come back and try to get three the next time.

[16:23] But they were really good, lots of good players. And of course, like any other dynasty, you never saw that they could possibly lose. They're in southern California, they're recruiting everybody, they've got a great coach, all the players want to go there.

[16:37] But slowly but surely, we moved up on them. I remember the first time we beat them. I was dancing and talking to myself until about two in the morning. My wife came out into the living room twice and said "Are you coming to bed?" I said "No! I'm still celebrating."

[laughter]

Murphy: [16:52] Not interested in that anymore.

Brennan: [16:53] That's right, I've moved on. But it was just a great feeling. And then once we started to get a piece of them, we really enjoyed it and were able to keep doing it. And now interestingly they've fallen back a little bit. They're coming up again this year. [17:10] But they were out of the national championship hunt for a lot of years there. I mean, it used to be as you said, it used to be USC, UCLA, Stanford. You can count on those three.

[17:21] And then there was a Miami, and then there was a Trinity, and then there was maybe a Florida one year. But only like one year. Then it started to turn a little bit. The southeast got stronger and stronger, and Florida became a power, and became our biggest rival.

[17:36] After Stanford, USC, it became Stanford and Florida. And one of the things I'm proud of, is we had the continuity. We had all these years where we were in the final four. We had all those years, and half the time we won it. So every year, we didn't really have a bad year. A bad year for us would be to finish third, you know.

Murphy: [17:55] Frank, talk a little about the atmosphere that you'd walk in here because Dick was having so much success with men's tennis. Women's tennis was still pretty new. But there was an atmosphere of success that was building around here and you fed on that?

Brennan: [18:09] Yeah. We didn't, we didn't know what it was but we weren't going to ask any questions. It was like, "keep your head down and keep shuffling." But, some of the teams started to do well then. [18:20] The year I was hired, I believe Tim Baldwin p.8 was hired for the women's golf position. Skip Kenney was hired within days of my hiring. Brooks Johnson, the track coach...

Murphy: [18:33] Track...

Brennan: [18:34] So we had a lot of young coaches, well not young, but new coaches coming in that were very hungry and we had a lot of great coaches that were here. And I don't know what it was. [18:44] I mean, we all tried to put our finger on it but I think, like anything else, it's a multitude of things. Stanford was getting hot. It was a hot place to go to school. Admissions was reasonable with us. We were able to get some athletes in and build some programs.

[19:01] But I think we all fed off each other. I think there was a synergy there, you know. Our kids would come to practice and say, the third day of their freshman year, and say, "God, the world record holder in the backstroke is across the hall from me."

[laughter]

Murphy: [19:17] Yeah.

Brennan: [19:17] The kid next to me built a computer when he was 14. There's an opera singer down the hall. Tiger Woods is here. There was all these people that were so accomplished. [19:29] I think it just showed everybody that, if you can do it, I can do it. And if I can do it, then this guy can do it. And if the baseball team can do it, well, why can't the basketball team do it, and so on and so forth.

Murphy: [19:39] Well isn't it interesting to you, it is to me, and I think a lot of others, how other sports have extended themselves from women's, I'm talking about women's sports now; swimming, tennis, volley ball, success early in those sports. [19:53] And then, my gosh, you get into field hockey, you get into softball, you get into... This place sponsors 34 sports. I've been around here most of my life. I don't know how they do it.

Brennan: [20:07] Yeah. That really is a lot. I think that one of the things that Stanford did and I've seen other schools make a mistake on this, and I'm prejudiced because I'm a coach. But I think that one of the things that Stanford did is they said, "We're going to get a great coach. We're going to go after the best coach in each sport and get them in here." [20:25] They're basically your CEO and like any other corporation, if the CEO isn't getting it done, it's not going to get done. So I think that that is something that they did.

[20:34] I remember when we went through some women's swimming coaches and then, I believe it was Andy Geiger, hired this guy from Texas that won about five or six in a row and I'm thinking, "How are they going to get Richard Quick to come to Stanford University?"

Murphy: [20:49] I wondered about that, too.

Brennan: [20:52] It's infinitely easier to recruit there. He's been very successful, we can't offer him big time money, but somehow the allure of Stanford and I guess some other things involved, and he ended up here at Stanford. [21:04] And that was really, I p.9 think, a great complement to Stanford to be able to attract a guy like that but it just shows Stanford's philosophy in those days. They said, "Well who's the best coach?" "Well, Richard Quick." "Well, let's get him." "Well, he's already got a job." "Well, we're going to get him anyway."

[laughter]

Brennan: [21:17] You know.

Murphy: [21:18] Yeah, and did.

Brennan: [21:18] Right. Yeah.

Murphy: [21:19] Frank, talk about this a little bit because I think it's really interesting how recruiting changed for you. You came in here, you win a couple of National Championships. You win three out of your first four, then you win, my gosh, you won six in a row. I mean, your not recruiting anybody anymore, they're lined up outside. You have the pick of the litter. [laughter]

Murphy: [21:39] Is that about the way it worked?

Brennan: [21:41] Well you know, it's always a problem at Stanford in that...

Murphy: [21:45] They have to get in.

Brennan: [21:46] They have to get in. You know, I used to say in other schools, "The coach has to want you, and you have to want the coach, and then you have a deal." [21:55] In our situation, the coach has to want you, and you have to want the coach, and the school has to want you. And if you're missing any of those components, you're not going to... It's just not going to work.

[22:05] So we lost a few to recruiting. We lost a few. And of course, the bad news in that situation is that they go someplace else and they think that you didn't really pull for them hard enough.

Murphy: [22:14] OK.

Brennan: [22:15] So I tried to -- it's like breaking up with a girlfriend, you know, you don't want her to burn your house down -- so I tried to be real sensitive in those situations and let them know that "Gee, I wanted you badly, you know? You're the greatest player in the last two or three years, but it just didn't work academically." [22:29] And they'd still go to Florida and try to kill us.

[laughter]

Murphy: [22:32] Frank, people would get upset if we didn't get your comments on some of your champions, individual and doubles champions. Great athletes and great young women, and it all started with Alycia Moulton. Let's start with her. Just a word or two and we'll go right down the list. p.10

Brennan: [22:50] Well, she was here when I got here. But again, it was sort of like the Bob Mathias story. I had seen her play. She played in the National Junior Championship finals against a student of mine, and my student won. [23:04] I should have been really excited, except I'm looking at Alycia thinking, "Wow, this girl's great! If I could get my hands on her... She's big, she's strong, she'll serve and volley."

[23:13] So then, a couple years later, here I am at Stanford coaching her. I was thrilled when I realized that she was here, and she was just a sophomore. We had a great relationship. She was really special to me. Not just because she was the first, but because she was just a great person and still is for that matter. We're close.

Murphy: [23:33] Very engaging young lady.

Brennan: [23:34] Very clever, very bright; sort of the quintessential Stanford student. And absolutely tops in her field. I mean she was number one and very dominating. She was not fluky. She was really, really good.

Murphy: [23:47] She won the whole thing in 1982 and then Linda Gates came along three years later.

Brennan: [23:51] Linda was fun. She was a recruit of mine, obviously. She's a local gal. One of the nicest kids you'll ever meet. Lives in Atherton now with her husband and two boys; just enjoying a great life. [24:04] She was great because she was so self-effacing. She came in and played... Matter of fact, she was not on a full scholarship when she started. I should have mentioned this earlier, but when I took the job, we had two less than we were allowed to have by NCAA standards.

[24:19] I went to Andy Geiger and I said, "I can get this girl for half a scholarship but I've got to have at least half." And he gave me a half a scholarship. I talked to Linda, and I said, "You still thinking about UCLA?" She said, "Well, I want a scholarship." So I said, "How about a half?" She said, "I'll come."

[laughter]

Murphy: [24:35] What a salesman you were.

Brennan: [24:37] We got her for a half and she went on. And she played like four that year. And I mean, she didn't look like she was going to be great. But she played four and she just got better and better and better. [24:45] By the time she graduated, she won two doubles titles in addition to that singles title. She was one of our all time best.

Murphy: [24:51] And God love Patty Fendick. We just recently put her in the Stanford Athletic Hall of Fame. I visit with her up at Washington. She's the coach up there. And she only won it twice, just one right after the other. She's one of my all time favorites.

Brennan: [25:06] She loves Stanford. She was a good example of a Sacramento kid, kind of meager background. Couldn't have afforded to come to Stanford on her own. When she got the scholarship here, I don't know who was happier, you know, her or me. [25:22] It was a wonderful relationship again. She and I became very close. She just had p.11

a super career. She played number one for three of her four years. Linda played another year at number one while she was here. But Patty went on.

[25:38] In her last two years, she was undefeated. She was undefeated at one. And she built that record at number one. I mean, you see some of these records. They won 30 in a row, 60 in a row. She won 57 in a row, at number one, beating the best.

[25:50] She was a ferocious competitor. I mean, if you had to pick one person to play for your life, I'd pick Patty Fendick.

Murphy: [25:57] And then, of course, as we move right, Sandra Birch won it twice in '89 and then again in '91, with Debbie Graham in the middle of those two years. So, what a run that was. That was interesting. That was fun.

Brennan: [26:08] Yeah, we were lucky to get girls that were good but also good students. And they ended up sticking around. Debbie left a year early, but we got four years out of Sandra, and three years out of Debbie. Sandra was a very plotting tennis player. [26:23] She was very bright. She was a Phi Beta Kappa here at Stanford and very cerebral. Just did a great job. Missed that one year that Debbie won but actually, that worked out well for us; because had Sandra won two years in a row she probably would have turned pro. So she stuck around for all four.

Murphy: [26:40] Debbie in the middle there. Tell about that.

Brennan: [26:43] Well Debbie's a USTA coach now. She's down in Carson helping out with our young tennis players in this country. She's from Southern California. Big serve, just an amazing girl. She had the constitution of a horse. [26:59] I mean she could run all day. She would run three miles the day of a match. And when it wasn't a match day, she'd run five or six miles. Just in great shape. Went on and had a very nice pro career and did wonderful things for us while she was here.

Murphy: [27:13] We should be on video, folks, because you have to see the expression on Frank's face when he's talking about these young women who brought such joy and a sense of completion and accomplishment into his life. And I think Lilia was one of those, too.

Brennan: [27:29] Yeah. Lilia was wonderful. She was very dominating. She was only here one year, but it was a great year. It got us back on track; we had not won the championship for a couple of years, there. [27:40] And she and Anne Kramer came in that year, and really got our program back on track, as far as winning championships. She brought a very professional level of tennis. She was very dedicated to what she was doing. I think she won the finals of the NCAA championships and lost two or three games in the final match. It was really amazing.

[27:59] Unfortunately, at that point, I realized she was probably going to turn pro, since she saw there wasn't much competition for her in college. But she's also gone on and had a very nice pro career. p.12

Man: [28:09] And then Laura Granville came along and won it in 2000 with you as coach. And Lele stepped in the following year, and she won it again! So obviously, did coaching mean much to her? [laughter]

Brennan: [28:21] Laura didn't need much coaching. She was a pretty solid player. She's doing very well in the pros right now. But she had a great career. She played two her freshman year, and ended up winning the NCAA championships that year. [28:37] We had Marissa Irvin and Laura Granville in the finals at the NCAAs, so that was a lot of fun for the old coach. That was the last match I coached. And I actually didn't coach it, because we had two Stanford players in the finals. But Laura was great. Laura was rock solid. Again, different from Patty Fendick.

[28:56] If you had to pick a couple of players to play for your life; I mean, Patty was very fiery, and she was in your face, and she was going to... you know, she was more the Jimmy Conners type. Whereas Granville was quiet; she was just lethal, you know? She was just very determined, muttered a lot to herself, never said much to anybody else. But, she was going to win. She had a tremendous desire to win.

Murphy: [29:16] Well, I think Patty Fendick has done that same thing up at Washington. I mean, she is tenacious, and she is feisty, and she's going to go out to win. And she's really built something with that beautiful new tennis center they have up there, and all that. She's got something going up there for the Huskies.

Brennan: [29:30] I'm very proud of her. You know, it's nice to have somebody follow in your footsteps a little bit. And I'm trying to think. I've had a couple other players be assistant coaches here and there, but I think she's the only head coach I have out there. [29:41] Most of the Stanford graduates are smart enough to go on and do much bigger things than be a tennis coach. But I'm thrilled Patty stuck around. And she has done amazing things up at Washington. It does rain a little bit up there.

Murphy: [29:54] Tennis is definitely an indoor game a lot of the time up there. Now, Alycia. You talked about Alycia teamed up, in 1981, with Caryn Copeland, and they won the doubles. How about that one?

Brennan: [30:06] That was a lot of fun. Caryn was my... no, she was not my recruit. But she was a freshman when I arrived here. She was Anne's last recruit. And she's one of my all-time favorites. Just a wonderful gal. [30:16] Actually ended up on the LPGA golf tour when she got through with tennis. And she was my first assistant coach here, when we finally got permission to have an assistant coach. At that point, I think UCLA had three assistant coaches and we had none.

[30:32] I said to Dick, "Gee, we have to get an assistant coach here. We're getting outflanked, you know, when we're playing matches. We have to watch six matches at once." And he went after John Whitlinger, and I went after Caryn Copeland.

[30:42] I was able to get her. And she came in for a couple of years as an assistant in those days. I don't think we paid her a whole lot, but she was on the books as an assistant. p.13

Murphy: [30:51] How about Linda Gates and Elise Burgin? That was 1984, and I remember Elise as just being tenacious. I mean, she would never give up on the ball. Ever. She was really tough.

Brennan: [31:03] Yeah, well, she was a lefty and very talented. She was great off both sides. She was one of those competitors who never got behind. She was a coach's delight. Because she'd win the first two games, she'd be up two-love, and then it'd be two-one, then be three-one, four-one, then be four-two, then it'd be... and then it'd be six-two. [31:23] You know, she wasn't one of those... I had others that would be up four-love, and then all of the sudden it'd be four-all. And I'd be, "Oh my god! You can't keep a lead." She could keep a lead. She knew how to do that.

Murphy: [31:32] She was feisty.

Brennan: [31:33] Yeah, and she was fun to coach. We had some great stories about her because she and Linda were so great and they were different personalities. Linda was more quiet, and of course, Elise was an upper classman and a real screamer.

Murphy: [31:48] Then Linda came back that very next year, but with a different partner, Leigh Ann Eldredge. Talk about her.

Brennan: [31:54] Leigh Ann was national junior champion when she came in, had a wonderful career here. She was on those powerhouse teams during that era and did very well with all her collegiate singles, but then won the NCAA doubles with Linda. They were awfully good together. They were really solid. There was really no weakness on that team.

Murphy: [32:14] Then let's move it down, Meredith McGrath and Teri Whitlinger. Whitlinger is a famous name around this place. [laughs]

Brennan: [32:23] Well, Teri's twin sister, Tami, both came to Stanford in 1989, I believe. And Teri graduated. Tami turned pro a couple years into her college career and of course, they're both the niece of John Whitlinger, who's now the Stanford men's tennis coach. [32:43] That was a great team. Meredith McGrath only played here one year, but she went on and won some grand slam doubles titles. She might have been the best doubles player we ever had here. She was really, really good.

[33:00] And she could have done more on singles. I mean, she finished up two or three in the country after that year, but she didn't win a NCAA title. And I think she just wasn't motivated to do that. She was going to be a pro and she was going to do this for one year and then move on.

[33:15] But I remember her coach came in and her coach wanted her to play with Sandra Birch, who was sort of an icon at that point, and had won at least one singles title and was maybe winning a lot of doubles titles.

[33:27] And her coach said to me, "Can Meredith play with Sandra Birch?" And Sandra was playing with Debbie Graham at the time and I liked that combination. So I said, p.14

"Well, I think we'll fix her up with Teri Whitlinger," who is not the better-known of the twins.

[33:41] And she was grumping and going, "Well, gee, Meredith is so good. She needs somebody for this and they'll be great." And I knew Teri was a much better doubles player than some of the people she was talking about.

[33:51] And I said, "Well, let's just put them together. We'll see what happens." And of course, they played together one tournament. They were absolutely perfect together.

[33:59] And this guy came out from Michigan and watched the tournament. He turned to me and he said, "That's a great doubles team there. They're not going to lose to anybody." And they didn't. They were one year together and they were undefeated the whole year and actually beat Sandra and Debbie Graham in the finals of NCAA.

Murphy: [34:14] I'm just sure folks are enjoying hearing your reminisce on this stuff because it's one of the glorious chapters in Stanford athletic history tennis, both men and women. [34:25] I think the folks would be interested in having you talk a little bit about success at Stanford and how you achieve it. Because there have been some great coaches around here and most of them are still around and you're certainly one of those.

[34:38] Dick Gould, amazing record in swimming; Skip Kenney and Richard Quick, unbelievable records with Olympians and national champions. And Don Shaw, in volleyball; Dante Dettamanti in water polo; John Tanner's doing that now. On the other side, John Vargas, of course, doing great; John Dunning, now with volleyball.

[35:02] Amazing success rates. How do you do it at Stanford? My own clue in this thing is you really have to believe in this place. You can't get too concerned with admissions. You can't find faults here or there with this place. Stanford has some intrinsic values where the roots run very deep. You kind of have to go with this place, don't you?

Brennan: [35:28] Absolutely. When you sign on, you know you're not going to get everybody you want from admissions. I never had a problem with admissions. I actually thought that I did very well every year at admissions. I never had a complaint. [35:39] And to be honest with you, the one or two that I didn't get that I thought I maybe should have gotten, went someplace else and didn't do very well. They knew something that I didn't know.

[35:50] Maybe they didn't do so well, academically. My wife always said, well, they didn't do well tennis-wise because you weren't coaching them.

Murphy: [laughs] [35:56]

Brennan: [35:57] I don't that was the truth, but of them struggled at other schools. And I look and thought, boy I'm almost glad I didn't get them now. So I had no problems with admissions. And with the academics, you have to either put up or shut up. If you're the Stanford tennis coach and somebody says, as they did, "Coach, I have a class I have to take this quarter and it meets at 4: [36:12] 00 PM and I have to leave practice." p.15

[36:21] Well, you swallow hard and you say "Is there any other time you can take this?" You know, "How bout this summer?" "No, I'm on track with this math," or whatever.

[36:29] So you just swallow hard and do it because they are really athletic students, they are not student athletes. I mean they are students first, and if I had to grade myself on all the players that went on and played pro tennis and made a million dollars, I wouldn't be a very good coach.

[36:50] What I grade myself on are the girls that go out and have successful lives and at 30 years old, look back at Stanford and Stanford Tennis and say, "That was great. That really pointed me in the right direction and was the benchmark in my life and I will never forget the place."

Murphy: [37:05] Or coach Brennan. [laughter]

Murphy: [37:07] Well, you and I have been friends for so long and you can understand this. There are people [who] ask me all the time "Murph, how long are you going to do what you do?" and I tell them "Till they tell me not to." [37:21] I guess is the answer to that. You stepped aside, you could still be still be coaching but Lele, one of your successful people, came in right behind you. Talk about that a little bit. Why did you step aside?

Brennan: [37:35] She didn't talk to me for a year after I retired. [laughter]

Brennan: [37:39] She said "I thought you'd give me some more notice." You know, if you had asked me a year before I retired, was I going to retire anytime in the near future, I'd say "No, it's the greatest job in the world. Why would I possibly do that?" [37:52] And then it just sort of came on me. I have a very large family and there is actually 33 in my family right now. I'm the oldest of 10 kids and I'm the patriarch at this point. So there was a lot of family responsibility starting to come up. I thought I had done pretty well and I had hit a lot of the marks that I was looking for.

[38:12] Lele was ready. I have absolutely no doubt about that. She was not pushing for it at all. Matter of fact, as I said, she was quite angry at me that I was retiring and didn't really prepare her and get her... But I knew better than she did, that she was ready and then my son Frankie was ready to step up.

[38:32] He was a volunteer coach for the first five years under me, and I know he was hungry to step up and he was perfectly capable of. And I'm thinking, "Well, weighing all this and I'm getting tired of dodging his car in the parking lot over here. I think he wants the job pretty badly."

[laughter]

Brennan: [38:51] But just a bunch of those things all got together. But primarily it was a family deal, and I wasn't going any place. I mean, I love Stanford probably more after I retired than before I retired. [39:04] I can sit back and enjoy it and get little bit more p.16

perspective and come over here two or three times a week, like I do now, and hang out with my old coaching buddies and guys like you.

[39:13] And just think "Man, this place is just amazing" and the thing that I want to do in retirement is keep track of these student athletes as they come in and try to keep that contact going.

[39:22] Because they are the reason that we are here and they are the reasons we are so good. Stanford isn't about the buildings or the weather, although we have beautiful buildings and great weather. It's about the human beings that are here.

Murphy: [39:33] Well that's funny because I made a little note here, because I love to ask coaches who are so successful, how does Stanford do it? I got it right there. How does Stanford do it? You just about answered it didn't you.

Brennan: [39:44] I hope so.

Murphy: [39:45] And isn't that just about the way it works? Frank, let's talk about your position here. Your position at Stanford as a coach was endowed with the Peter and Helen Bing endowment. And this is something that Stanford has been very, very successful. [40:05] Obviously, there are some wealthy people out there. There are many people who love this place and a number of positions in athletics as well on the academic side are endowed, by certain sums of money that are invested and pave the way for outstanding people to come here. Can you talk about that a little bit.

Brennan: [40:24] I would love to. Peter and Helen Bing have been a driving force in my life, my whole time here at Stanford, practically. I met them in '84 and it's kind of a humorous story because Peter is such a wonderful man and Helen is just a saint. [40:40] I had been here, I guess, two or three years and I didn't know who Peter and Helen Bing were. And we're looking for a place to stay. we had won the NCAAs in 1982 in Salt Lake City and we stayed in condominiums and I thought this is why we won.

[40:54] We are in these two big condominiums and we had this great relationship with each other. We had breakfast together. We played cards at night. And just, there was a great team feeling. And I wanted to replicate this, down at UCLA, in '84.

[41:09] So I talked to the development people, and they said, "Well, we don't know of anybody." But then, all of a sudden, they said, "Oh! Peter and Helen Bing. They can probably host you." So I said, "Well, who are they?" And they said, "Well, Peter and Helen Bing."

[laughter]

Brennan: [41:22] "Don't know who they are, but I don't anybody messing with my players. Are they OK?" "Oh yeah, they are the most wonderful people." So, I mean it's hysterical now knowing what I know now about the Bings. But I was just going on and on. And a little nervous about these people. [41:39] I said, and I guess the really rude p.17

thing on me, I said, "Are you going to be living in the house when we're there?" And there was a pause, and Peter Bing says, "Yes. It's our house."

[41:48] I said, "Oh, I didn't know. I thought it might be your vacation house and we were just, you know, going to be in your beach house or whatever." "No, No. This is our house."

[41:56] And of course it was just a wonderful year in '84. We won it, and the relationship started to grow. And Peter and I got into the swimming pool every night after the matches and talked about tennis. And talked about the girls. And he was just fantastic.

[42:09] And then, several years later he called me on December 17th. Which is my birthday. And I said, "Isn't that amazing? Peter has the time to remember my birthday." And he called, he says, "Frank, I don't know, I'm a little... I feel funny about this. But would you mind if I endowed your position at Stanford?"

[42:29] And I paused. I said, "Endowed my coaching position? Yes." I said "Wow, that's the most wonderful birthday gift I've ever had, you know." He said, "Well, I didn't know it was your birthday. But I want to do this and I don't want you to feel obligated or feel awkward about it, so I wanted to run it by you first."

[42:45] And this is typical Peter Bing. Offering me something like that, and asking if it's OK.

Murphy: [42:50] That's wonderful. And Peter, you know, the Bings. There are so many others like that who have endowed positions and it creates remarkable relationships. And I am sure that they feel very, very happy about it, too.

Brennan: [43:05] He gives us a couple of scholarships. He and Helen give us a couple of scholarships. And he gets very close with the players that he pays for. And the relationship goes on forever. [43:16] I mean, I can tell you stories. Where, long after they're Stanford athletes, these women are still reaping the benefits of being associated with Dr. and Mrs. Bing.

Murphy: [43:25] Now lets talk a little bit about Coach Gould, just a little bit because he retired, too. But, you were gracious about it. I mean you kind of half way left. I mean you are around once in a while, and you are very pleasant. [43:36] But Gould is around all the time. And he is still agitating people, and bothering people. And asking other people for money. I mean, he still has his finger in the light socket. You know that.

[laughter]

Murphy: [43:46] He said he retired. They threw a big party for him -- which he organized, you know? [laughter]

Brennan: [43:51] We know that.

Murphy: [43:52] Oh yeah. We know that. So we made a big scene about that, but he's still here. And what he's pointed at now, with all...I want you to talk about Gould. [44:00] p.18

The construction that's taken place around here with relationship to tennis the last couple of years. And what the sites are on -- an NCAA championship here. Talk about that.

Brennan: [44:10] Well, Dick is amazing. Because he not only coaches, he raises the money, and he is the greatest PR man Stanford ever had. I used to joke that the facility cost $4 million dollars and Dick and I had to raise that whole $4 million dollars. [laughter]

Brennan: [44:25] I raised $100,000, and he raised the $3.9 million -- which is probably about true. He says, "Oh. No, no, no, no," but he did. He did all the heavy lifting on that for sure. And his position now is Director of Tennis. [44:39] And he is basically going to be in charge of the facility, and finishing out the fund raising. Which will be finished probably when he builds the bridge over El Camino into the playing fields at Pali High, you know? And builds tennis courts over there.

[44:53] I don't know when he is going to be done. But he does have great ideas. And, you know, we wouldn't have kept up with recruiting. We wouldn't have kept up competitively if we didn't have this beautiful facility. He has a few more things on his list there.

Murphy: [45:08] Agenda. He has an agenda.

Brennan: [45:10] He's got a little shopping list. He's got some more stands scheduled for the back courts. Which really are very important. If you see a picture of the '97 championships that we won here, and Julie Scott is on the back court winning her match. And we've got people hanging from the rafters, and standing on the court. [45:29] And, of course, we're not in the stadium. So where else are they going to view it from? So, it's really important to get some good viewing seats back there. But, he has his eye now on the 2006 Co-Ed NCAA championships, which will be the first one. And, to me, it just sounds monumental.

Murphy: [45:49] That time has come, Frank, hasn't it? It really has, yeah.

Brennan: [45:52] Yeah, I think it's going to be great. I talked to the women's coaches down in Athens this year, when I went down for the NCAA Women's Championship. Just to see if there was any negative feedback. And they were all extremely enthusiastic. [46:06] Not only because they think it's a good idea to combine them, but also it's going to be at Stanford. And we've hosted two or three in the past, and they've been the most successful.

[46:18] And the fact that Dick is going to be running it. This will be his job. I mean, it's going to be fantastic to have him finally in charge of everything, and not have to worry about any coaching.

Murphy: [46:28] How about and before we finish with Dick and I'll have you, of course, we did a piece with him. And I think we did an hour, and he wanted to do a couple of days. He had another couple of thousand feet of audiotape he wanted to fill up. [46:39] And we did talk a little bit about East Palo Alto, and the kids that come over here, and that program. Can you mention that a little bit? p.19

Brennan: [46:45] Sure, sure. Well, that was started by a guy by the name of Jeff Aarons, who was a Stanford All American. And, you know, here we are living in this fantastic community of Palo Alto, in Northern California. And, of course, right across the road you have East Palo Alto, where things don't usually go so well for a lot of these young people. [47:01] So, Jeff got the program started; introduced them to tennis, got them involved academically, where that was all tied together with the athletics. And then we were always participating with them.

[47:12] We were going over to the East Palo Alto schools and giving little clinics and helping them out. But eventually, this became their site; this became their home. And it's been a wonderful deal. And it's great for our kids.

[47:23] I mean, our kids who are light years removed from that style, are able to see what it takes to start off in tennis when you're not in a country club and to see what these kids are going through. And the tutors are wonderful, and the program is nationally known. It's just a real credit to the University.

Murphy: [47:45] Now I have to mention my old classmate, and my great old buddy Tad Taube. And he just loves having his name on that stadium.

Brennan: [47:51] How big was your class, by the way? [crosstalk]

Murphy: [47:53] Oh, it was big. It was marvelous people. We used to have parades and honor one another.

Brennan: [47:58] Herbert Hoover, was he there? [laughter]

Murphy: [48:00] Hoover was the year before. But Taube... Tad's been a great supporter of tennis; both sides here, hasn't he?

Brennan: [48:07] Wow, it's been great. I mean, just wonderful that he has all the money and the inclination, you know? He's just a great tennis guy. And a great Stanford guy. [48:15] Yeah, Dick got a hold of him, and worked him over at a breakfast up in Portola Valley there, Woodside. And basically got the seed money to get all of this going. But he seems... he's still very much inclined to help us out.

[48:32] I mean, he's still with the next project, and the next project, and the next project. He's the one with most of the seed money coming up. Just a wonderful guy. Comes out, knows all the players, watches all the matches.

[48:44] Comes to the Bank of the West and hangs out every day and every night. We're really lucky, you know, that he likes tennis and not golf, or something.

Murphy: [48:53] Yeah, how about Bank of the West? Who are... name some of the... you know, the Williams', I mean, everybody's been here. All the great players in the world have played, why, just a sand wedge from where we are, right?

Brennan: [49:03] Yeah, it's been a... p.20

Murphy: [49:04] Hate to use a golf term here in the tennis atmosphere.

Brennan: [49:06] Yeah, what's that? Sixty degree? Yeah, we've had... Venus has been here. She's sort of here every year. Lindsay Davenport, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles. I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody, but all the... [49:24] Oh! Hingis! Hingis was here for quite a few years. And, of course, Kournikova. I remember you used to come over and watch Kournikova whenever I could get you tickets. Why did you want to watch her and not?

Murphy: [49:33] She's in magazines now.

Brennan: [49:35] Oh? Oh is she? OK. She had a nice forehand. [laughter]

Murphy: [49:39] Among other things. Frank, tell the folks this. We have to be a little graphic and we're probably running overtime here. How you reset the three courts, the three major courts out there, turn it the other way. [49:54] How you come in a build a tennis court for the Bank of the West, and then tear it all up, and everything looks just the same as nothing ever happened. Tell the folks how you do that.

Brennan: [50:04] Well, for one of the events we had here, which was the Fed Cup, they actually paved over these courts. They put down something, and then paved over on top of that, and turned the one court sideways.

Murphy: [50:16] Yeah, sideways.

Brennan: [50:17] So they could get more seating in. For the Bank of the West, they bring seating onto the court three of our stadium court. And then this year they brought it onto court two of our stadium court, so we had this tremendous bowl. [50:31] I'm not sure exactly how many they seat, but it's a pretty major league stadium. I'd say they're six or seven thousand. They put it all up in about a week and they take it all down in a week. That's the court, all the stands, the bleachers, and boxes, and everything else.

Murphy: [50:47] And when they leave, it looks just like it did before they came in the first place. It's amazing. Amazing construction deal, isn't it?

Brennan: [50:54] IMG is the company behind that, and they are obviously the tops in the world at putting these events on.

Murphy: [51:01] So, what have we not talked about, pal?

Brennan: [51:04] I don't know, my golf swing. [laughter]

Murphy: [51:07] How often do you display your golf swing now?

Brennan: [51:11] I'm trying to get out there a couple times a week. I really enjoy it. Don't tell anybody though, this isn't for the public. I'm a tennis guy.

Murphy: [51:18] Then we're going to have to play. We will have to play because I only play with older guys now.

Brennan: [51:24] I've been waiting 20 years for that comment. p.21

Murphy: [51:25] You don't hit it very far, do you?

Brennan: [51:26] No.

Murphy: [51:27] Good. [laughter]

Brennan: [51:28] Further than I can see though.

Murphy: [51:31] You get to an age sometimes and golf becomes almost an indoor game.

Brennan: [51:35] That's right.

Murphy: [51:37] OK, pal. Francis Xavier Brennan, my goodness. Are you living up the name?

Brennan: [51:42] Absolutely, doing the best I can.

Murphy: [51:44] All right coach. Thanks, Frank.

Brennan: [51:45] Thanks, Murph.

Murphy: [51:47] Lot of fun. Hope you enjoyed it as much as the two of us did. [laughs] If you didn't we'll send your money back. Thanks. Bye. [silence from 51:56 to end of audio at 01:12:58]

[51:55]

Transcription by CastingWords