LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2729
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 22 November 2017
The Council met at Eleven o'clock
MEMBERS PRESENT:
THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.
PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.
2730 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H.
THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG
THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI
THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2731
DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN
THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN
DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.
DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P.
IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN
THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN
THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK
THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING
THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING
THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING
THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI
THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN
THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H.
2732 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN
DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING
THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN
THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG
THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG
THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.
THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO
MEMBERS ABSENT:
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU
PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:
THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT
THE HONOURABLE NICHOLAS W. YANG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY
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THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
THE HONOURABLE FRANK CHAN FAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING
PROF THE HONOURABLE SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH
THE HONOURABLE KEVIN YEUNG YUN-HUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION
CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:
MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL
MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL
MS ANITA SIT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
2734 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber)
TABLING OF PAPERS
The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:
No. 23 ― Insurance Authority Annual Report 2016-17
No. 24 ― Immigration Service Welfare Fund Report on the administration of the Fund, Financial statements and Report of the Director of Audit for the year ended 31 March 2017
No. 25 ― Report of the Director of Audit on the Accounts of the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region for the year ended 31 March 2017
No. 26 ― Report No. 69 of the Director of Audit on the results of value for money audits―October 2017
No. 27 ― Accounts of the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region for the year ended 31 March 2017
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. First question.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2735
Implementation of pilot projects relating to smart cities
1. MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): The Government is currently inviting views from various stakeholders and sectors of society on the Report of Consultancy Study on Smart City Blueprint for Hong Kong submitted by a consultant in June this year, and it expects to publish a smart city blueprint in the third quarter of next year. The recommendations put forward in the aforesaid Report include the implementation of small-scale trials, such as the setting up of a smart region living lab by the Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation in collaboration with The Chinese University of Hong Kong for the purpose of assessing the practicality of different pilot projects under the local environment and operational constraints. In fact, quite a number of public and private organizations have separately or jointly implemented a number of small-scale trials relating to smart cities. For example, the Hong Kong Productivity Council has, on its own, researched and developed smart street lamps and a wireless charger for electric vehicles, and The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology has joined hands with a Mainland car hailing software company to promote the transfer of research and technology achievements in the area of intelligent transport systems. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it knows the details of the pilot projects relating to smart cities being carried out separately or jointly by public and private organizations in Hong Kong at present; if so, set out by project name in a table the contents of the various projects and the amounts of subsidies provided by the Government (if any);
(2) whether it will proactively contact the organizations mentioned in (1), so as to collect the data obtained from their trials and, through appropriate procedure, make use of such data to take forward the work on the development of a smart city; and
(3) as it has been reported that the pilot projects on cashless transactions, unmanned driving, etc. to be carried out in the aforesaid smart region living lab need about three to five years to complete, whether the Government will consider publishing a smart city blueprint only after all such pilot projects have been completed and the relevant data have been thoroughly analysed; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
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SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, the Government has been actively developing smart city, by making use of innovation and technology to address urban challenges, enhance city management, improve people's quality of living as well as Hong Kong's attractiveness to global businesses and talents, so as to drive sustainable economic development.
The consultant engaged by the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer ("OGCIO") submitted its study report on smart city blueprint in mid-2017. The consultant recommended a series of short-, medium- and long-term initiatives under six areas, namely Smart Mobility, Smart Living, Smart Environment, Smart People, Smart Government and Smart Economy, as well as in promoting further opening up of data.
We briefed the Legislative Council Panel on Information Technology and Broadcasting in July 2017 and conducted public consultation in August and September 2017. Various sectors gave very positive responses to the consultancy report and hope that the Government could announce the smart city blueprint earlier. In view of such, the Chief Executive announced in the Policy Address that we will advance the announcement of the smart city blueprint to within this year. Prior to that, we will invest $700 million to take forward three key infrastructure projects for smart city development, namely providing an electronic identity for all Hong Kong residents, launching a pilot Multi-functional Smart Lampposts scheme and reforming the development technology of e-Government systems and building a big data analytics platform. The Chief Executive will personally chair the newly established Steering Committee on Innovation and Technology, which will steer and examine measures under the eight areas of innovation and technology development and smart city projects, with a view to driving the innovation and technology and smart city development of Hong Kong in a highly effective manner.
My reply to the three parts of the question is as follows:
(1) Successful smart city development not only depends on the work of the Government, the participation of public and private organizations are also important. Various government departments, as well as public and private organizations, have been using innovation and technology to improve services and enhance the efficiency of city management.
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For the Government, the Innovation and Technology Bureau assists Government departments to use innovation and technology to improve service quality, efficiency and effectiveness through a block funding of $500 million. Since the scheme was rolled out in mid-2017, it has been well received by departments. The Innovation and Technology Bureau has agreed to support more than 20 applied technology projects or studies proposed by departments, involving over $100 million of funding and covering a number of smart city projects, including monitoring of city weather, red tide and air pollution; enhancing water supply management and the efficiency of sewage treatment; illegal parking monitoring in Kowloon East; and the provision of real-time transport and leisure information on Lantau, etc. Some of these projects can commence in this financial year the earliest.
Furthermore, in the past three years(1), the Public Sector Trial Scheme under the Innovation and Technology Fund had subsidized 100 trial projects, 42 of them involved smart city, with a total subsidy of $120 million. Examples of trial projects include: in collaboration with the Airport Authority Hong Kong, the Hong Kong R&D Centre for Logistics and Supply Chain Management Enabling Technologies ("LSCM") has developed a barcode and radio-frequency identification scanner, which can facilitate passengers in printing luggage tags at home and check in luggage by themselves at the counter; LSCM cooperated with the Customs and Excise Department to launch the Single E-lock Scheme, which reduces customs clearance time through the seamless clearance service provided by Internet of Things and e-lock-based technology. The details of the projects are at Annex.
Apart from the above, the Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation, in collaboration with The Chinese University of Hong Kong, is planning to set up a living lab to support the pilot application of innovative solutions, including social culture platform, autonomous vehicles, smart building and facility management,
(1) From April 2014 to September 2017. 2738 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
cashless society, etc. The Hong Kong Productivity Council has also conducted smart city research projects, such as Multi-standard Mobilised EV Smart Charger, food waste total recycling system, etc.
As regards financial technology ("Fintech"), as at late October 2017, 25 Fintech projects were tested or being tested via the "Fintech Supervisory Sandbox" launched by the Hong Kong Monetary Authority ("HKMA"), including biometric authentication, chatbot and blockchain, etc. In addition, HKMA and the Hong Kong Applied Science and Technology Research Institute launched the Fintech Innovation Hub in November 2016, facilitating new products and service tests of the financial industry.
(2) As regards open data, OGCIO has been in contact with various public and private organizations, encouraging them to release data through the "data.gov.hk" portal for free reuse by the public, thereby encouraging development of innovative applications and solutions, driving smart city development. The consultancy report has also made a series of recommendations regarding open data, covering transport, education, medicine, finance and economy, etc. OGCIO will follow up with relevant departments on the recommendations.
(3) In recent years, different cities around the world have been striving to develop smart cities. It is essential for Hong Kong to press ahead with smart city development at full steam. As mentioned above, in response to the feedback received from different sectors, we will advance the announcement of the smart city blueprint for Hong Kong to within this year, setting out directions and goals for Hong Kong's smart city development. Smart city development is an ongoing process. The Innovation and Technology Bureau will keep an eye on the latest developments in relation to smart cities around the world, and the results of various trials and pilot schemes by public and private organizations, with a view to driving smart city development as well as updating the smart city blueprint of Hong Kong at the appropriate juncture.
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Annex
Approved "Public Sector Trial Scheme" Projects (April 2014 to September 2017)
Amount of Name of Name(s) of Project Funds Approval Applicant Project Title Trial Reference Approved Year Organization Organization(s) ($) ITT/018/14CP The Hong Trial: Ultimate e-Book Police College, 5,452,399 2014 Kong for e-Learning (Hong Hong Kong Applied Kong Police Force) Police Force Science and Technology Research Institute Company Limited ("ASTRI") ITT/013/14LP Hong Kong Trial: Interoperability Hong Kong 4,310,000 2014 R&D Centre Technology and Customs and for Logistics Applications for Excise and Supply Container RFID and Department Chain e-seal & E-Lock-Based Management Enabling Technology Enabling for Container Cargo Technologies Transshipment Process Limited ("LSCM") ITT/020/14CP ASTRI Trial: Ultimate e-Book Hong Kong 2,659,287 2014 for e-Learning (Hong Housing Kong Housing Society) Society ITT/019/14CP ASTRI Trial: Telehealth Hong Kong 1,084,915 2014 Technology Platform Housing (Hong Kong Housing Society Society) ITT/026/14LP LSCM Trial: RFID and Hong Kong 5,481,500 2014 Sensor-based Housing Productivity Society Enhancement System (Housing for Human-operated Society Elderly Workplace Resources (Government and Centre) Industry) 2740 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Amount of Name of Name(s) of Project Funds Approval Applicant Project Title Trial Reference Approved Year Organization Organization(s) ($) ITT/014/14LP LSCM Trial: Enabling Construction 3,365,700 2014 Technologies for Baby Industry Tracking in Hospital Council Environment (Tamper resistant and reusable baby tag) ITT/027/14LP LSCM Trial: Radio-Frequency Tung Wah 753,421 2014 Identification ("RFID") Group of based Interoperable Hospitals Gateway for Logistics ("TWGHs") Service Platforms ("RIG") ITT/029/14CP ASTRI Trial: Telehealth TWGHs 1,957,826 2014 Technology Platform ("TWGHs") ITT/025/14LP LSCM Trial: Lightweight Hong Kong 1,588,520 2014 RFID Reader Chip for Housing Near Field Society Communication (Housing ("NFC") and Mobile Society Elderly Applications (Hong Resources Kong Housing Society Centre) Elderly Resources Centre for Smart Posters) ITT/033/14LP LSCM Trial: Lightweight Airport 927,380 2014 RFID Reader Chip for Authority Hong NFC and Mobile Kong Applications (Hong Kong International Airport for Home Printed Luggage Tags) ITT/031/14GP The Trial: A Smartphone Hong Kong 1,094,800 2015 University of Control Device and Housing Hong Kong Signpost System for Society Shek Visually Impaired Kip Mei Users Lutheran Centre for the Blind LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2741
Amount of Name of Name(s) of Project Funds Approval Applicant Project Title Trial Reference Approved Year Organization Organization(s) ($) ITT/002/15LP LSCM Trial: RFID Tagging Construction 2,113,435 2015 and Packaging Industry Technology for Food Council Products ITT/004/15LP LSCM Trial: Location-based Works Branch 4,909,500 2015 Technologies for Asset of Development Tracking and Risk Bureau of Hong Management Kong Hong Kong Police College ITT/006/15LP LSCM Trial: RFID-enabled TWGHs Jockey 6,031,120 2015 Platform Technology Club for the Integrated Rehabilitation Shenzhen-Hong Kong Complex Food Safety and Supply Chain Management Public Information Platform and "Real Time Food Quality Management Service System" ITT/007/15LP LSCM Trial: Service Platform TWGHs Jockey 3,330,740 2015 for Pearl River Delta Club Waterway Logistics Rehabilitation Operators and Trusted Complex Network-based RFID Infrastructure (for Construction Workers Registration Authority's Site Attendance Module System) ITT/005/15GP The Chinese Trial: Development of a Hong Kong 299,690 2015 University of Fine Forecasting Observatory Hong Kong System for Coastal Ocean Dynamic Environment 2742 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Amount of Name of Name(s) of Project Funds Approval Applicant Project Title Trial Reference Approved Year Organization Organization(s) ($) ITT/003/15LP LSCM Trial: Lightweight TWGHs Jockey 3,502,650 2015 RFID Reader Chip for Club NFC and Mobile Rehabilitation Applications (Smart Complex Police Cane Reader and College, Hong Wearable RFID reader Kong Police for TWGHs Jockey Force Club Rehabilitation Complex) ITT/011/15CP ASTRI Trial: Cardio-Vascular Jockey Club 6,107,340 2015 Monitoring Devices for Center for Tele-Care System Positive Ageing (Measurements of Jockey Club Blood Pressure and Cadenza Hub Arterial Stiffness Index for Elderly) ITT/014/15GP The Chinese Trial: Cardio-Vascular Prince of Wales 2,565,450 2015 University of Monitoring Devices for Hospital Hong Kong Tele-Care System (Assessment of Vascular Ageing and Risk of future Cardiovascular Diseases in the Elderly) ITT/020/15LP LSCM Trial: e-Transaction Hong Kong 2,492,000 2015 Security and Privacy Monetary Protection Authority Technologies for Supply Chain and Retail Industry ITT/021/15LP LSCM Trial: RFID Enabling Hong Kong 3,938,000 2015 Technologies for Retail Post and Logistics Industry (iPostal Station) LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2743
Amount of Name of Name(s) of Project Funds Approval Applicant Project Title Trial Reference Approved Year Organization Organization(s) ($) ITT/018/15LP LSCM Trial: Lightweight The Hong 2,837,605 2015 RFID Reader Chip for Kong Society NFC and Mobile for the Blind Applications (Smart Cane Reader and Wrist Wearable RFID reader for Yuen Long Home for the Aged Blind) ITT/019/15LP LSCM Trial: RFID-based Hong Kong Sea 5,234,500 2015 Interoperable Gateway Transport and for Logistics Service Logistics Platforms Association ITT/026/15GP The Chinese Trial: Development of a Agriculture, 500,480 2015 University of Realtime Monitoring Fisheries and Hong Kong System for Hong Kong Conservation Offshore Dynamic Department Characteristics Based Hong Kong on Satellite Remote Observatory Sensing ITT/032/15GP The Chinese Trial: Development of Civil 469,200 2016 University of Comprehensive Engineering Hong Kong Methodologies for and Paddy Rice Yield Development Monitoring Using Department Environmental Satellite ("ENVISAT") Advanced Synthetic Aperture Radar Data ITT/002/16LP LSCM Trial: Package-specific MTR 3,766,057 2016 RFID Tagging and Corporation Embedding Technology Limited ITT/006/16GP The Hong Trial: Scalable Internet Crossmission 678,500 2016 Kong Protocol Television and Company University of Interactive-movie Limited Science and Platforms for Technology Ubiquitous Multimedia Streaming 2744 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Amount of Name of Name(s) of Project Funds Approval Applicant Project Title Trial Reference Approved Year Organization Organization(s) ($) ITT/016/16LP LSCM Trial: An eLogistics Office of 3,999,000 2016 Appliance with Data Government Exchange and Chief Conversion Information Technologies for Officer Infrastructure Connectivity ITT/010/16GP The Hong Trial: Research and Water Supplies 384,100 2016 Kong Development of Novel Department Polytechnic Inline Hydropower and University Energy Storage Systems for Power Supply to Data Monitoring Systems of Medium Water Pipelines ITT/017/16LP LSCM Trial: Build and Airport 3,448,000 2016 Operate a Ground Authority Hong Receiving Station of Kong the ENVISAT Remote Sensing Satellite for All-weather Environmental Monitoring ITT/024/16GP The Chinese Trial: Development of a Hong Kong 721,280 2017 University of Novel, Fine Prediction Observatory Hong Kong System of Storm Surge Marine Inundation for Hong Department Kong Coastal Area Civil Engineering and Development Department ITT/027/16EX Twinly Trial: Hybrid Hong Chi 1,003,400 2017 Marketing Geofencing Systems Morninghill Technologies for Elderly and Child School, Tsui Limited Care―EyeBB Lam LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2745
Amount of Name of Name(s) of Project Funds Approval Applicant Project Title Trial Reference Approved Year Organization Organization(s) ($) ITT/001/17CP ASTRI Trial: Long Term Airport 5,366,000 2017 Evolution Private Authority Hong Network for Video Kong Delivery ITT/003/17LP LSCM Trial: A Virtual Reality Correctional 3,590,000 2017 System for Strategic Services Operation Training Department Hong Kong University School of Professional and Continuing Education ITT/004/17LP LSCM Trial: Package-specific Fu Hong 1,898,860 2017 RFID Tagging and Society Embedding Technology and Lightweight RFID Reader Chip for NFC and Mobile Applications ITT/002/17LP LSCM Trial: Innovating an Police College, 1,759,000 2017 Efficient Outdoor Hong Kong Mobile Wireless Mesh Police Force Network ITT/011/17LP LSCM Trial: A Virtual Reality Occupational 3,370,000 2017 Work Safety Training Safety and Platform Health Council Construction Industry Council ITT/012/17LP LSCM Trial: Indoor The Jockey 1,674,000 2017 Localisation, Tracking Club CPS and Navigation Limited ITT/013/17LP LSCM Trial: SHIELD (Smart Hong Kong 3,516,600 2017 Hacking and Intrusion Cyberport Entrapment with Management Lawful Detection) Company Limited Hong Kong Police Force 2746 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Amount of Name of Name(s) of Project Funds Approval Applicant Project Title Trial Reference Approved Year Organization Organization(s) ($) ITT/010/17LP LSCM Trial: Applications of Civil 6,011,000 2017 Differential Global Engineering Navigation Satellite and System for real-time Development tracking system Department Hong Kong Police Force ITT/017/17LP LSCM Trial: Intelligent Hong Kong 2,145,600 2017 Decision Support Plat Police Force form for a Digital Economy―Application s of Social Media Sentiment Analysis in the Government Sector ITT/018/17LP LSCM Trial: Smart Workplace Social Welfare 6,111,123 2017 Automated Data Department Systems for Trial Use Pok Oi Hospital Applications with Non-Governmental Organisation Operations and Elderly Care Total 42 Total Funding 122,449,978 Number of Amount Projects
MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): As I mentioned in the main question, a number of pilot projects will take about three to five years to complete, and the authorities will gain the experience and obtain more reliable data only then.
The Secretary said in the main reply that the Government will announce the smart city blueprint within this year. President, may I ask the Secretary on what experience and data the blueprint will be founded?
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SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): Thanks Mr Martin LIAO for his supplementary question. We have a lot of data on hand at present. Our objective is to make use of innovation and technology to address the urban challenges we are facing, and data is only part of it. However, apart from data, we must formulate a set of common targets and proposals before we can move on.
In this connection, we have taken a step forward. We consider the provision of an electronic identity and an authentication platform very important, for this will enhance the efficiency of data sharing. In this respect, we have decided to do so before introducing the blueprint.
Moreover, on the part of the Government, we will reform the e-Government systems of Hong Kong and set up a big data analytics platform, hoping to encourage various government departments to provide their data. Why? For various government departments will notice enhancement in operational efficiency and achievements through the platform. We hope that the platform will encourage them to perform well in this respect.
As for the different types of data, we are open about this. When various departments have provided the relevant data one after another, we will examine whether the smart city blueprint of Hong Kong needs to be updated to capitalize on the new data.
MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): We all know that lots of visitors will flock to Tai O of Lantau Island during holidays, and the number of visitors often exceeds the receiving capacity of the place. Residents of Tai O and visitors often have to bear long waits for public transport, and there is no guarantee of service despite the long wait. The situation has aroused discontent among residents who even comment that they do not want too many visitors in Tai O. The Secretary mentioned in the main reply that real-time transport and leisure information on Lantau would be provided. May I ask whether the information provided will alleviate the problem of excessive visitor flow and be conducive to the provision of complementary transport arrangements? If this is possible, when will such information be provided?
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SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): Thanks Mr YIU Si-wing for his supplementary question. Mr YIU's question is on a specific direction, whereas the relevant data will be part of the solution. For instance, in the event of traffic congestion, we may inform visitors immediately, so that they will not go to Lantau blindly and aggravate the traffic congestion.
We have communicated with the Transport Department ("TD") and learnt that the All-in-One Transport Mobile Application scheme of TD will be completed in mid-2018. TD will increase the relevant information under the scheme to facilitate the public in receiving information on routes of different modes of transport quicker and easier through the one-stop information application. In my view, the main objective is to provide information to facilitate the public in learning about the traffic condition. I trust the relevant information will help address problems like traffic congestion on Lantau. For the possibility of further enhancement, TD will monitor the operation results and effectiveness of the application, and then put forth enhancement proposals.
MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, in the application of digital and smart technology, I think Hong Kong is lagging far behind the Motherland. The Secretary said that there is the utmost urgency for Hong Kong to catch up, and I share his view. The Secretary mentioned earlier that the smart city blueprint of Hong Kong would be announced as soon as possible. Yet, I think the blueprint is merely a vision, and there are priorities for different issues. According to my observation, one of the pressing problems we are facing now is the shortage of parking spaces.
It is straightforward. By means of technology, we can design an App requiring car parks in the territory to provide information on the availability of vacant parking spaces at different intervals to help drivers look out for parking spaces. May I ask the Secretary whether this is one of the major tasks of the authorities? If it is, will the Secretary tell us when it will be completed? For I understand that the arrangement may involve legislative enactment. Secretary, I would like to know your opinion about this.
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): Thanks Ms LEE for her supplementary question. Regarding the issues mentioned by Ms LEE just now on the enactment of legislation and the need to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2749 encourage car park operators to provide information voluntarily, we need to maintain communication with the Transport and Housing Bureau and TD. They attach the utmost importance to the parking issue. On the arrangement of smart lamp posts, they have had close communication with us to examine the identification of street-side parking spaces by smart lampposts and the provision of convenient payment mode for parking, and so on. These are all important. We must maintain close liaison with TD and the Transport and Housing Bureau. Once we have received the relevant information, we will make proactive efforts to implement it with them. If the arrangement for parking spaces involves enactment of legislation, we have to address the issue together with them to achieve the target.
MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): The Secretary has not answered my supplementary question. Just now, I mentioned the application of technology in addressing the shortage of parking spaces. Yet after hearing the reply of the Secretary, may I ask whether the Secretary is stating that the issue is not included in the blueprint of the Government? If that is the case, I am extremely disappointed.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): Thank you, Ms Starry LEE. This is included in the blueprint.
MR JIMMY NG (in Cantonese): President, I trust that a smart city will definitely include paperless operation. I am very glad to hear that the authorities have introduced a series of measures to implement paperless operation. However, I would like to cite the example of two industries to illustrate how their operation goes against the principles of a smart city. The profession of Ms Starry LEE who has just spoken is a case in point. I would like to know more about it. Those who have run a company must know that limited companies are required to provide audited accounts every year, yet why are five to six copies of the same document required to be prepared for signature every year? A single company will have several copies of the same document. Is it really necessary?
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Another case is about legal services. Take court cases as an example. If the Department of Justice ("DoJ") initiates prosecution against 10 defendants, the 10 defendants have to submit 10 sets of legal documents. In other words, DoJ which needs to collect the 10 sets of documents from the 10 defendants will have 100 sets of documents in total. Then, the defendants have to make copies of the 100 sets of documents for their lawyers and the latter have to copy another set of the 100 sets of documents to their barristers, which means there will be several hundred sets of documents. Why does DoJ not replace the 10 sets of printed copies with soft copies? Moreover, at present, the Judiciary may require the parties to do e-filing, yet a hard copy should also be provided for the Court. May I ask whether the authorities have planned to communicate with the relevant organizations, the relevant bureaux or the Judiciary to offer an incentive or design a software for them in order not to waste paper?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): Thanks Mr NG for his supplementary question. Mr NG's question is mainly about the concept of a paperless system. In fact, we have been promoting this concept all along, for it is worthy of consideration both in terms of efficiency and environmental protection. We will follow up through the Steering Committee on Innovation and Technology. This involves the official recognition of e-documents as legal documents and security concerns, such as protection against overwriting, and I trust that technology on electronic identity ("e-ID") will be helpful. We have noted this issue and will follow up.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Second question.
Private clinical practice engaged by teaching staff of university faculties of medicine
2. DR PIERRE CHAN (in Cantonese): President, recently, some members of the medical sector have expressed to me their concerns about the engagement in private clinical practice ("PCP") by teaching staff of the faculties of medicine of the two universities. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
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(1) whether it can comprehensively set out the details of the rules and guidelines made by the two faculties of medicine on the engagement in PCP by their teaching staff, including the qualifications for engagement, the maximum number of hours allowed, the systems for reporting and auditing the figures of consultations, and the additional restrictions on the engagement in PCP by part-time teaching staff and doctors with limited registration, and provide copies of the relevant documents; whether it knows the number of cases of violations of such rules and guidelines uncovered by each faculty of medicine in the past five years, and the number of teaching staff involved; whether the two faculties of medicine have established a mechanism for handling complaints about PCP; if so, of the details;
(2) whether it can comprehensively set out the mechanisms adopted by the two faculties of medicine for sharing the income generated from PCP, as well as provide the relevant documents, and set out in a table the PCP data of each faculty of medicine in each of the past five years, including the number of doctors engaging in PCP, the number of patient attendances, the total amount of income generated, the amount of income apportioned to the Hospital Authority, the amount of income apportioned to the teaching staff, and the amount of relevant income received by each of the five teaching staff members who received the largest amounts of income generated from PCP; and
(3) if it knows how the Hospital Authority and the two faculties of medicine verify the number of hours of engagement in PCP as reported by the teaching staff, and whether the time they spend on conducting ward rounds, providing consultation services at outpatient clinics, performing operations and handling administrative work in respect of PCP will be counted?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, the main rationale for providing private patient services at public hospitals is that certain specialized expertise and facilities in the public medical sector (especially the two teaching hospitals, namely the Queen Mary Hospital affiliated with the University of Hong Kong ("HKU") and the Prince of Wales Hospital affiliated with The Chinese University of Hong Kong ("CUHK") are not generally 2752 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 available in the private sector. The public can be offered access to these specialized services by means of private services of the Hospital Authority ("HA").
My reply to the various parts of the question raised by Dr Pierre CHAN is as follows:
(1) HA requires clinical professors from the two universities to be appointed as honorary staff before they can practise medicine on public patients in the teaching hospitals. Besides, as honorary staff of HA, these clinical professors have to abide by the relevant guidelines and management procedures of HA in the provision of private patient services.
According to the HA's guidelines on the provision of private patient services, both honorary staff from the universities and doctors of HA must obtain the formal approval of the head of clinical department and the chief executive of the hospital concerned before engaging in the provision of private patient services. HA also requires that all doctors providing private patient services must be specialists registered with the Medical Council of Hong Kong.
HA also requires specialists to appropriately record their engagement in private clinical practice in writing during the process, so as to monitor and audit the provision of private services. To ensure that the provision of private services will not affect the public services received by Hong Kong residents, HA has established guidelines to restrict the time that each HA doctor can be engaged in the provision of private specialist outpatient service to an average of only one session (i.e. three to four hours) per week. Currently private patient services account for less than 1% of the overall service capacity of HA.
We understand that HKU and CUHK have respectively implemented stringent internal control measures to govern the engagement in private patient services by clinical professors.
According to the information provided by the Faculty of Medicine of HKU, there are comprehensive regulations and guidelines regarding teaching staff of HKU engaging in outside practice. Applications LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2753
for outside practice submitted by the teaching staff of the Faculty of Medicine have to be approved by the head of teaching department and the Outside Practice Committee of the faculty. The amount of time spent on outside practice and the distribution of revenue are also stringently regulated and monitored. Annual reports on outside practice must be audited by the Outside Practice Committee of the faculty and submitted by the Finance and Enterprises Office to the Council of HKU.
The Faculty of Medicine of CUHK also set stringent requirements for its teaching staff on private clinical practice. These include, for example, those engaged in private clinical practice must be full-time professoriate staff of the Faculty of Medicine having obtained the approval of the respective head of teaching department and Dean of the Faculty of Medicine, etc. There are restrictions on the time spent on private consultation service provided by each clinical teaching staff member. The service charges are set according to the List of Private Charges as per the Gazette and handled by the medical centre under the Prince of Wales Hospital. There is an established sharing mechanism in CUHK to share the revenue among the university, Faculty of Medicine, clinical department and professors, and the CUHK professors are not allowed to accept any payment directly from the patients. CUHK staff providing private consultation are required to report to the university and the Faculty of Medicine the number of hours of private consultation provided, and the Faculty of Medicine audits the records on a quarterly and a yearly basis according to the regulations concerned.
(2) and (3)
Private patient services offered in HA hospitals are HA services. HA has set up a standardized system to process relevant clinical documentation, billing and revenue collection of private services, etc. pursuant to the HA's procedures and requirements.
In view of the contribution of the two universities in private patient services, a fee sharing arrangement between HA and the universities is in place. In general, revenue generated from consultations and procedures is shared in the ratio of 75 (university): 25 (HA), whereas that from supporting services (like radiology investigation and 2754 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
laboratory tests) is shared in the ratio of 75 (HA): 25 (university) in view of the higher contribution from HA in the provision of such services. The way that the two universities handle their shares of revenue from private services is an internal matter of the universities and is outside the jurisdiction of HA.
To step up monitoring, HA has developed a common set of guidelines for public hospitals on the use of income generated from private patient services. HA has also issued internal guidelines to assist doctors providing private patient services in determining the charges according to the complexity of each case.
The statistics on the use of the HA's private services, and the revenue so generated and apportioned to the universities in the past five years are at Annex.
To help the chief executives and heads of clinical departments of the hospitals concerned keep abreast of the service volume, HA has included private patient services in its formal statistical work starting from 2017-2018. This helps ensure that the public medical services received by Hong Kong residents will not be affected by the provision of private patient services. Recently, HA has conducted a review on the implementation of the guidelines on private patient services, and noted that the guidelines had been implemented smoothly in public hospitals (including the two teaching hospitals).
Annex
The statistics on the use of the Hospital Authority's private services, and the revenue so generated and apportioned to the universities in the past five years
Amount of Private Amount of revenue Number of private revenue from specialist from private inpatient bed-days private services outpatient services of at the Hospital of HA hospitals (clinical) HA hospitals Authority ("HA") apportioned to attendance apportioned to HA ('000) the universities ('000) ($ million) ($ million) 2016-2017 24.7 66.4 376 189 2015-2016 23.3 67.7 355 184 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2755
Amount of Private Amount of revenue Number of private revenue from specialist from private inpatient bed-days private services outpatient services of at the Hospital of HA hospitals (clinical) HA hospitals Authority ("HA") apportioned to attendance apportioned to HA ('000) the universities ('000) ($ million) ($ million) 2014-2015 25.1 66.8 379 184 2013-2014 22.0 64.1 349 174 2012-2013 23.6 65.3 277 144
Note:
The attendances of private patient services are projected on the billing information. The computation basis is different from that for official statistics. The number of private inpatient bed-days do not include those for the civil servants and the HA staff under their respective medical benefit schemes.
DR PIERRE CHAN (in Cantonese): The Government has actually not answered my main question in its main reply. My question just now was about the maximum number of hours allowed for engagement in private clinical practice by the teaching staff of the faculties of medicine of the universities, yet the Secretary gave me the maximum number of hours allowed for engagement by HA staff in her reply. Moreover, she often mentioned the word "stringent" but failed to provide the relevant documents.
According to media reports, owing to patients' keen demand for specialists, a liver transplant specialist said that it was not rare for a doctor to leave the operating theatre in the middle of an operation, or even for the entire team to leave. If this is true, the authorities should accept that it is a "normal phenomenon". If that is the case, why is it necessary to conduct an investigation into this incident? My supplementary question is: Does the investigation panel set up by HA have any power to investigate and punish the teaching staff of the universities? If it has, what are the details?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Dr Pierre CHAN for his supplementary question. I have already pointed out at the beginning of my main reply that the primary task of HA is to provide quality health care services for the people of Hong Kong. The main rationale for 2756 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 providing private patient services at public hospitals is that certain specialized expertise and facilities in the public medical sector are not generally available in the private sector. HA can thus offer the public additional access to private services.
Although the Government will not comment on individual cases, we have obtained the guidelines and conditions developed by HA regarding private clinical practice. The information provided to us by the two universities is set out in the main reply. In my opinion, all clinical consultations or medical procedures performed in hospitals under HA are under the jurisdiction of HA.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): President, having worked in the Queen Mary Hospital for so many years, the Secretary should be aware of the current situation. The professoriate doctors from the two faculties of medicine are scrambling to engage in private clinical practice at the Hong Kong Sanatorium and Hospital, the Gleneagles Hong Kong Hospital, the Union Hospital or the new private hospital to be opened shortly. In the past five years, the amount of income generated from private clinical practice for sharing has risen by 30%, or 18.9 million, with half of it, or nearly $90 million, being shared among these professors. President, you might be unaware that although the authorities said that each HA doctor could only engage in the provision of private specialist outpatient service for only three sessions per month, the vast majority of teaching staff have to spend a long period of time on research, teaching and attendance of meetings. After deducting the amount of time spent on these commitments, they spend most of their time in Hong Kong on engagement in private clinical practice. Although they receive full pay of more than $2 million per annum, they spend much time on engaging in the provision of private services.
President, all the income generated from the provision of private services used to be shared by the universities rather than individual health care personnel. Is the Government not obliged to discuss with the University Grants Committee and the universities with a view to eradicating this practice which appears to be acceptable because the opportunities of providing consultation services for Hong Kong people by experienced doctors will actually be undermined and exploited? If it is not, what are the reasons?
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SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Dr KWOK for his supplementary question. All doctors, regardless of whether they are doctors of HA or university doctors serving HA, must ensure that the people of Hong Kong will not be affected as a result of their engagement in private clinical practice. Moreover, the number of hours of engagement in private clinical practice will be subject to stringent restriction imposed by HA and the universities. For instance, HKU and CUHK have put in place guidelines to regulate the engagement in private clinical practice by clinical teaching staff.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary has not answered my supplementary question. While the rich can consult renowned doctors, the poor can only consult the ordinary ones. As my supplementary question for the Secretary is whether actions will be taken to eradicate this problem, she should answer "yes" or "no" only.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, regarding the waiting time of private patients, since appointments will be made with their specified doctors, and such appointments shall depend on the workload of the relevant doctors and the arrangements made, the queues for public and private services are thus separated. HA will not guarantee that the waiting time for private patients is shorter.
MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, before all else, I would like to declare that I am a member of the Council of CUHK as well as a recipient of the service provided by the health care centre set up by the Prince of Wales Hospital in collaboration with CUHK.
I fully understand why Members are so obstinate about the engagement in private clinical practice of consultants. Members can see that the fees charged by these doctors are regulated, and they will be paid by the two universities or HA, too. Nowadays, even well-off middle-class people will encounter difficulty in looking for doctors, and even if they find one, they will be charged exorbitant fees. Otherwise, it would be impossible for some doctors to earn $1 million a week. What is more, some doctors may even earn $1 million a day in the future.
2758 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Given the presence of so many good doctors in Hong Kong, and their fees are subject to stringent regulation, may I ask the Secretary whether these doctors can be allowed to provide more consultation service within the time limits on their rest days such as Sundays? The rules should be revised and relaxed because there is currently a serious shortage of doctors in Hong Kong, particularly good doctors who charge reasonable fees.
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHEUNG for his supplementary question. The time limits on the engagement in private clinical practice of doctors of HA or professors of the two universities are regulated. Doctors of HA cannot provide private specialist outpatient service of more than one session (i.e. three to four hours) per week, whereas doctors teaching in universities are similarly subject to restrictions. Generally speaking, although the two universities might be subject to different restrictions, the number of private consultation sessions allowed should be around two. In particular, apart from providing consultation service, university teaching staff members are responsible for clinical teaching and conducting scientific research as well. The distribution of their work and time must comply with the guidelines provided by the universities or the two faculties of medicine.
MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): The Secretary has not answered my supplementary question. My question is: Can these doctors be allowed to provide consultation services for more patients on their rest days such as Sundays?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHEUNG, you have pointed out the part of your supplementary question not answered. Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I have nothing to add.
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MRS REGINA IP (in Cantonese): President, HA requires the clinical professors from the two universities to become honorary staff first. May I ask the Secretary whether it implies that honorary staff members are not paid by HA? Is this the reason for HA to allow these doctors to engage in private clinical practice, thereby making a liver transplant patient wait for several hours? Is this allowed? Should this requirement not be revised? I think that patients' safety should be the prime consideration rather than whether or not the doctors are paid. Can the Secretary answer this supplementary question and will this mindset be rectified?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mrs IP for the supplementary question. Although I will not comment on individual cases, the Government is very much concerned about some cases that occurred in HA hospitals. The Queen Mary Hospital has already launched an inquiry into the case mentioned by Mrs IP just now. If it is proved that the operation procedures involved any responsibility or experienced any unnecessary delay, thereby affecting the safety of the patient or the level of the operation, HA will definitely follow up and deal with the case in a solemn manner.
MRS REGINA IP (in Cantonese): President, I think the Secretary has misunderstood my supplementary question. My question is not only about how this case will be handled. I also asked whether such practice of allowing these doctors not drawing any pay to accord priority to engagement in private clinical practice and making patients awaiting liver transplants or other critically ill patients wait would be changed.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): In general, HA staff members of specialties are supervised by department heads and heads of clinical specialties. Their distribution of work or work priority should be allocated and planned by heads of clinical departments.
2760 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): President, an alien must feel baffled should he hear the questions and answers today. While the supplementary question raised by Dr KWOK Ka-ki seemed to propose restricting the provision of more services by doctors, the one raised by Mr Tommy CHEUNG seemed to suggest allowing private doctors to spare more time for making extra income outside. What is the actual situation now? Does the Secretary have a good understanding of the provision of medical services in Hong Kong currently? Can the patients really receive proper and quality specialist service? Given the current shortage of doctors, should the Government not consider importing more professionals?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): I thank Mr TSE for asking the supplementary question. On the premise that the people of Hong Kong will not be affected by the private inpatient service and the public can enjoy public medical services, public hospitals have made some guidelines restricting that each HA doctor can provide only one session of private service per week. The engagement of clinical teaching staff members from the two universities in private clinical practice are regulated by the guidelines, too.
DR PIERRE CHAN (in Cantonese): President, I would like to tell Members that we are now experiencing a shortage of doctors in the public sector, not in the private sector. Given that public-sector doctors have to work very hard to cope with the peak seasons of influenza, there is a shortage of doctors.
My supplementary question is related to the table in the Annex. I would like to ask about the total amount of income generated from engagement in private clinical practice by the teaching staff of the universities, but the table in the Annex has not provided this figure. However, I can see that the amount of revenue from private services of HA hospitals apportioned to HA was $376 million, whereas it is stated in the previous page that one fourth of the revenue was to be apportioned to HA, then should the total revenue exceed $1 billion by multiplying this sum by 25? How can the total revenue be calculated? Can the Bureau explain this clearly once again?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Dr CHAN for asking the supplementary question. In fact, the total revenue from the provision of services is calculated according to the fee-sharing ratio. In general, revenue generated from consultations and procedures is shared at the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2761 ratio of 75 (university): 25 (HA), whereas that from supporting services is shared in the ratio of 75 (HA): 25 (university) in view of the greater contribution from HA in the provision of such services, including revenue generated according to this ratio. The figures set out in the table in the Annex represent the amounts of revenue apportioned to the universities by HA.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Third question.
Procurement policy for information technology products and services
3. MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, some practitioners of the information technology ("IT") sector have relayed to me that in the latest round of tender exercises for IT products and services projects conducted by the Government, the situation that "the lowest bid wins" has not improved, and contractors are also required to bear unlimited legal liability, resulting in quite a number of IT companies not participating in the bidding for such projects. On the other hand, the Chief Executive has indicated in the Policy Address recently delivered by her that the Government will explore the inclusion of innovation and technology as a tender requirement in the procurement arrangements of government departments and will not award contract only by reference to the lowest bid, so as to encourage local technological innovation. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the concrete measures for effecting the policy direction of not awarding contract only by reference to the lowest bid in procurement arrangements, and whether it will review the requirement in IT procurement contracts regarding the legal liability to be borne by contractors, with a view to attracting more IT companies to participate in the bidding; whether, in order to enhance the transparency of tender exercises, it will consult members of the sector and stakeholders before conducting tender exercises for larger-scale or complicated IT projects;
(2) whether it will introduce measures to encourage local small and medium enterprises as well as start-up enterprises to bid for government IT projects, and set a target ratio of participation in the bidding by such enterprises; and
2762 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(3) of the measures in place to encourage policy bureaux and government departments to collaboratively develop commonly needed IT projects, adopt the Agile Software Development Methodology in taking forward IT projects, and put into application technologies such as artificial intelligence, big data analytics and machine learning, with a view to enhancing the daily operation of government departments, improving the quality of public services, as well as enhancing information security and privacy protection?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, having consulted the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, the reply to the three parts of Mr MOK's question is as follows:
(1) Currently, the Government encourages procuring departments to specify outcome- or performance-based requirements when drawing up tender specifications. Unless it is absolutely necessary, no restriction on technical specifications of products and services should be imposed. The intention of this approach is to avoid hindering tenderers from proposing innovative technologies or products. Having regard to the recommendations in the Policy Address, the Innovation and Technology Bureau will study jointly with the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau on how to adjust the evaluation criteria to incorporate requirements in relation to innovation and technology and research and development in addition to the price factor, in order to promote local technological innovation. Based on the results of the study, we will revise the procurement policy accordingly. The study is expected to be completed in the second quarter of 2018.
Currently, to protect public interest, all government contracts would generally include tender provisions on unlimited liability of contractors, which require them to be liable for the losses incurred by the Government or third parties arising from their products or services during a specified period. We understand the concern of the information technology ("IT") industry about this requirement and their wish to reduce the risks involved in undertaking government IT contracts. To strike a proper balance between facilitation of industry development and protection of public interest, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2763
the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer ("OGCIO") reviewed the liability provisions in tender documents in 2016. Having consulted the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, OGCIO provided guidelines to bureaux and departments ("B/Ds") in July 2016 which suggest that except under certain specific circumstances (e.g. projects of higher risks or with extensive and far-reaching impact), B/Ds may set an appropriate cap on the contractor's liability for indirect or consequential damages after considering the associated risks.
OGCIO will upload information on the government IT projects which will go for tendering onto its website for reference and timely preparation by the industry. Before tender invitation for larger-scale or complex IT projects, the B/Ds concerned will collect the latest information of the related goods or services to be procured (including the related technological trends) in order to procure suitable goods or services. Procuring departments may also, under appropriate circumstances, specify in the tender provisions that alternative proposals which could better meet the requirements may be offered by the tenderers for consideration.
(2) The Government's procurement policy is to obtain goods and services at the best value for money through open and fair competition. The Government has been encouraging local small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") through various measures to bid for government IT projects. In the Standing Offer Agreement for Quality Professional Services ("SOA-QPS"), a minor group was set up to enable local SMEs to provide IT services to departments. In the new round of SOA-QPS, we have raised the contract value limit of this minor group to $3 million, which is more than double the original limit of $1.43 million, so that SMEs can participate in government projects of higher contract values. In the current SOA-QPS, there are 16 participating SMEs bidding for government IT projects, which is six SMEs more than the last agreement. The Government will continue to implement measures to encourage local SMEs and start-ups to undertake government IT projects, in order to foster the development of the local IT industry.
2764 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(3) OGCIO has been encouraging B/Ds to work together to develop commonly needed IT projects, and taking the lead to develop common shared services, including e-procurement, electronic information management and government human resources management. In addition, OGCIO has developed the Practice Guide for Agile Software Development, provided training courses and organized regular briefings and experience sharing sessions for B/Ds to facilitate their adoption of the Agile Methodology for IT project development.
With the rapid development of big data analytics, artificial intelligence ("AI") and machine learning, the Government has started to adopt these innovations and technologies to enhance the quality of public services, assist in formulating and implementing policies, and improve operational efficiency, information security and privacy protection. OGCIO will continue to promote the adoption of these latest technologies and provide training and support to B/Ds, such as facilitating B/Ds to share data and jointly develop big data applications through the pilot big data analytics platform.
To promote further adoption of big data, we plan to launch a big data analytics platform with AI application in 2020 to assist B/Ds in expediting the development of big data systems and reducing the development and operating costs through economies of scale and resources sharing.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, I am a bit disappointed with the Secretary's main reply, for the Chief Executive has obviously mentioned in the Policy Address that the future procurement approach of the Government will not award a contract only by reference to the lowest bid. It will also include innovation and technology in the assessment criteria. However, it seems that the present main reply did not mention any new measures. In asking the question, I certainly wish to know what new measures there are, but I might not have phrased the question very well. The Secretary's reply has merely repeated the existing measures. Is there no problem now? Obviously not. I guess both the Secretary and I heard the Chief Executive repeat on the occasion last night that the policy adopted by various departments of taking the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2765 lowest bid needs to be revised. Perhaps after the Secretary had consulted the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, the latter really did not provide any new information, so the Secretary could hardly give a reply.
President, my supplementary question particularly focuses on the provisions on unlimited liability. In the main reply, it seems the Secretary also admitted this is a problem. However, the Secretary only mentioned that the relevant guidelines suggest that except under certain specific circumstances (e.g. projects of higher risks or with extensive and far-reaching impact), the departments may set an appropriate cap on the liability for consequential damages. In my view, however, this approach seems to run contrary to our original intention because the higher the risk of a project, the greater the possibility of incidence of accidents. The company concerned will worry that if the Government has laid down such provisions, in the event of an incident, it will fall short of covering the liability even if it winds up the whole business. In fact, this approach does not resolve the problem.
For this reason, may I ask the Secretary whether he has compiled any statistics on the number of departments which have awarded contracts still carrying provisions on unlimited liability, or requested tenderers to accept such provisions in the invitation of tenders, and the number of such contracts since the guidelines were provided to various departments in 2016. Is there such data?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): I thank Mr MOK for his supplementary question. President, I would like to explain to Mr MOK that at present, all the procurement by the Government will generally include provisions on unlimited liability. Our first step is to exclude such provisions from some of the Government's procurement exercises. Since the issue of the guidelines in July 2016, two of 24 tenders relating to IT projects carry no such stipulation. I know the progress in this aspect is relatively slow, but we hope to encourage more other departments to do this. Just now Mr MOK asked whether this approach runs counter to our intention. In fact, it does not, because there is something we call "mission critical". That is, we must protect public interest rather than only the Government's interest. Hence, we need to strike a balance in this regard. We will continue to proactively seek better ways of withdrawing provisions on unlimited liability from more tenders.
2766 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): May I ask the Government to provide information on the projects to which these 24 tenders are related? Because obviously, now there are 22 tenders for projects of higher risks or with extensive and far-reaching impact …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr MOK, you cannot raise any more questions on this. Please follow it up with the Secretary on other occasions.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): Okay.
MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): President, I have noticed that it is stated in the main reply that to promote the adoption of big data, the Government plans to launch a big data analytics platform with AI application in 2020. May I ask why it has to wait for some two years to launch the analytics platform with AI application but not doing so earlier?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, I thank Ms YUNG for her supplementary question. As we all know, technologies relating to big data, especially big data analytics, are constantly changing. Apart from software, we also need to procure hardware as ancillary facilities for enlarging and bettering our cloud platform. As far as big data is concerned, we need to enhance the data capacity by perhaps several or even over 10 times. For this reason, it will take us a certain period of time to strengthen the existing infrastructure.
We also hope to achieve it faster. Two years are the target we have set for now. It is neither too short nor too long. We hope to attain notable results in two years.
In the short term, however, I believe some departments can work faster because not every department uses the same platform now. Hence, we need to think up ways to convince them to switch to our common platform.
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MR CHUNG KWOK-PAN (in Cantonese): President, now the Government encourages start-ups to develop new technologies. Very often, however, the Government would not draw up any contracts for these new technologies because it never has any knowledge of such technologies. So how will it draw up any contracts for the new inventions of start-ups?
Will the Government make consideration the other way round that instead, the relevant companies can lodge applications with the Government if they have new technologies which are practicable? Can the Government create some opportunities or demands for these new technologies for adoption in the Government on a trial basis? For example, I have recently visited the Science Park and observed a kind of health care technology which can make early detection of tumours through blood tests. Can we try to ask the Hospital Authority ("HA") to adopt this new technology to facilitate its development? President, this is working in the other way round. HA itself does not have this kind of contracts. Can we try to let start-ups make such applications on their own initiative?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): I thank Mr CHUNG for his supplementary question. I would like to answer it in a few aspects. Firstly, the Government has put in place the Public Sector Trial Scheme to subsidize start-ups and encourage them to use technologies applicable to government departments on a trial basis. That means funding is provided to assist their trials.
The health care technology mentioned by Mr CHUNG just now was actually developed by Prof Dennis LO. This is related to his previous research and development. I believe we have to engage the Food and Health Bureau for a joint discussion on this matter to see what approaches are appropriate because it will entail other risks.
As I said just now, with regard to tenders, we will include some provisions allowing tenderers to offer better alternative proposals for using new technologies, in the hope that start-ups or innovative enterprises will have the opportunity to provide updated and better approaches for meeting the tender requirements. This is what we will do.
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IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): The industry criticisms of the Government's procurement policy are not limited to the question of how procurement is conducted after the needs and specifications of the products or services are set. They are also about how the Government makes such decisions and whether it is willing to purchase innovative products and services. The follow-up questions of some Honourable colleagues were also raised in this direction.
Hence, may I ask the Secretary whether the Innovation and Technology Bureau will take the initiative to recommend to the relevant departments new products commonly used in other cities? For example, President, as we all know, our peripheral cities have extensively used LED (i.e. light emitting diode) road lighting. Only Hong Kong is still so backward. May I ask the Secretary whether he will act a bit more proactively in this aspect rather than sticking to the old rut, merely waiting for the other departments to take action?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): I thank Ir Dr LO for his supplementary question. As a matter of fact, this is exactly one of the priority tasks of the Innovation and Technology Bureau. We have recently introduced a block vote called TechConnect amounting to $500 million, under which various government departments can apply to the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau for funding for trials of new technologies, with a view to enhancing their operational efficiency and changing their ways of working. We have currently received 20 applications and will make funding allocations of more than $120 million. I hope this will be a good start.
DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, the governments in many countries or cities will assist local enterprises in every possible way in their procurement exercises. In particular, they will take the lead in trying and using newly developed skills and technologies. Yet in this regard, firstly, Hong Kong still faces the problem of awarding a contract to the lowest bid. Although we have repeatedly asked the Government on different platforms how it will change the existing approach of awarding a contract to the lowest bid in procuring technological (especially IT) products and services, it has merely repeated over the past few years the reply that the approach is being changed, and effectiveness and performance will be made the basic factors of consideration. However, the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2769 industry has continuously relayed that in the actual situation, the contract will still be awarded to the lowest bid. In this connection, I still did not see in the Government's main reply any major breakthrough by the Secretary. This problem will turn out to be a great barrier.
Secondly, the government departments did not accord priority to using products developed in Hong Kong. Many of our successful scientific research products have been put to use by foreign countries, but so far Hong Kong has not done so. Neither have I seen any government policy for incentivizing the departments to accord priority to using scientific research products developed in Hong Kong. I wish to hear a firmer reply from the Secretary in this regard.
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, I thank Dr QUAT for her supplementary question. I wish to reiterate that the original intention of TechConnect is to encourage different departments to try innovative technologies through the provision of resources by the Innovation and Technology Bureau. Sometimes owing to the culture consideration, we wish to facilitate the adoption of more local innovative technologies by various departments through the provision of resources.
Besides, now when we assess a project, the weighting of price is about 70%, whereas that of non-price factors is about 30%. We wish to gradually raise the weighting of the latter to, for example, 40% in the future so that the assessors will consider not only the price but also the element of innovation and technology as well as that of localization, with a view to changing and promoting the development of innovation and technology.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, since the Chief Executive has also suggested the need to make new procurement arrangements, I would like to ask a simple follow-up. As many Members have made enquiries about the direction of reform in the relevant measures, how will the Secretary discuss with the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau? Is there a timetable? Can we hear some directions? Even if the final plan has not yet been decided now, can the Secretary disclose to us some directions and provide a timetable?
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SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): First of all, our direction is to give a 40% weighting to non-price factors in tender assessment. In this connection, just now I mentioned two points. One is the element of innovation and technology, and the other, localization. We will work in this direction. Just now I also mentioned that we are now conducting a study with the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau. Our target date has been set as the second quarter of 2018. A lot of things have been scheduled. We hope a conclusion will be reached during the course. We will never delay anything indefinitely. We have established the platform for innovation and technology in the hope that it will bear fruit in two years or sooner. This is our general direction. I will continue to provide information to the steering committee led by the Chief Executive and hope it will be included in their scope of consideration.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Fourth question.
Protection for Hong Kong people buying overseas properties
4. MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Cantonese): Recently, some members of the public sought my assistance, saying that they had bought, from a developer of the United Kingdom ("UK") through a registered estate agent of Hong Kong in a property fair held in Hong Kong in 2015, a number of uncompleted housing units involving a total of five development projects, all of which had subsequently gone "failed". It has been reported that over 200 Hong Kong people have suffered financial losses totalling hundreds of millions of Hong Kong dollars. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the current legislation and codes of practice to be observed by registered estate agents of Hong Kong in promoting completed or uncompleted overseas properties in Hong Kong; whether it has assessed if such legislation and codes of practice are sufficient to safeguard the rights and interests of Hong Kong buyers; whether the practices and processes adopted by estate agents in promoting those properties are subject to regulation; if so, of the details; if not, whether it will consider establishing a mechanism to regulate such practices and processes;
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(2) as it has been reported that similar incidents of failed development projects of UK occurred in 2012, 2014 and 2016, whether the Government has so far discussed with the relevant UK departments ways to render assistance to those buyers outside UK who have suffered losses, and the establishment of a mechanism to safeguard the rights and interests of that type of buyers; and
(3) given that it has become increasingly common for Hong Kong people to buy properties overseas in recent years and, due to the huge costs and excessively long time involved as well as a lack of the relevant knowledge, it is often difficult for them to travel overseas to seek compensation when their rights and interests have been undermined, whether the Government will, apart from carrying out public education, consider reviewing the relevant policy with a view to establishing a mechanism to enhance the protection for the rights and interests of Hong Kong people?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, having consulted the Security Bureau and the Estate Agents Authority ("EAA"), I set out my consolidated reply to various parts of the question raised by Mr CHAN Han-pan as follows:
(1) The Estate Agents Ordinance ("EAO") (Cap. 511) provides for the establishment of EAA, as well as the licensing and regulation of the estate agency trade. Estate agent licensees must comply with EAO and its subsidiary legislation. They should also comply with the Code of Ethics and practice circulars issued by EAA. Licensees who fail to observe and comply with the Code of Ethics and practice circulars may be considered not a fit and proper person to hold the licence under EAO. This may in turn affect their eligibility to hold or continue to hold their licences. They may also be subject to disciplinary action.
EAA has all along attached great importance to the conduct of estate agent licensees. According to the Code of Ethics promulgated by EAA, licensed estate agents shall provide services to clients with honesty, fidelity and integrity. They should protect their clients against fraud, misrepresentation or any unethical practices in 2772 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
connection with real estate transactions. If a licensee is suspected of breaching the above codes in the course of the sale of properties, regardless of whether the properties concerned are local or non-local, EAA will investigate the matter and determine whether disciplinary action should be taken depending on the investigation result.
(2) The Police have been committed to combating various types of deception, and raising via different channels public awareness against various types of deception. On the incident where some members of the public are suspected to have been cheated in purchasing uncompleted housing units from a developer of the United Kingdom in 2015 as mentioned in Mr CHAN's question, the Police have so far received reports from 35 members of the public. These cases, classified as "Request for police investigation", have been passed to the Commercial Crime Bureau for follow-up, and are still under investigation. As in other cases involving cross-boundary crimes, the Police will conduct intelligence exchange and seek cooperation with relevant overseas law enforcement agencies. For the above cases, the Police have, through INTERPOL, passed the case information to the relevant United Kingdom law enforcement agencies for follow-up.
(3) Regulation of the sale of non-local properties in Hong Kong involves complicated issues and requires careful deliberation. The Government consulted EAA on this subject matter in the past. EAA advises that there may be substantial difference between the sale of properties situated outside Hong Kong and those located in Hong Kong from both the perspectives of market operation and conduct regulation. Moreover, as the sale of non-local properties involves laws and regulations and tax regimes of different jurisdictions, as well as various stakeholders (e.g. non-local developers, intermediaries and agents), the issues concerned are rather complicated and extensive. In addition, with the advancement of information technology, vendors of non-local properties can now carry out sale and promotional activities easily through the Internet, thereby increasing difficulties in law enforcement.
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In light of the above, the Government considers that enhancing public education, with a view to reminding investors and the public alike of the risks involved and the issues that they need to pay attention to in purchasing non-local properties (especially uncompleted properties), should be a more effective way. EAA has all along been putting much effort at educating the public. It has from time to time reminded consumers of the issues that they need to pay attention to before making the decisions to purchase non-local properties through news articles, publications and other media. The Consumer Council has also published articles in its publications to remind consumers to pay attention to the risks in purchasing properties overseas.
Apart from enhancing public education, EAA has also reminded estate agent licensees to exercise extra care in handling the sale of non-local properties and refrain from providing misleading information to purchasers. EAA is in the course of preparing a set of guidelines for issue later this year to remind the estate agent licensees of the matters that they need to comply with and pay attention to in handling the sale of uncompleted properties situated outside Hong Kong.
According to the information provided by EAA and the Consumer Council, the number of complaints relating to the sale of non-local residential properties in Hong Kong remains at a low level in recent years. In the past three years (i.e. from 2014 to 2016), EAA and the Consumer Council have respectively received 10 and 13 complaints on average per year on the sale of non-local residential properties. This indicates the effectiveness of enhancing education for the public and the estate agent licensees.
MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Cantonese): President, I find it surprising that regarding the main question asked by me, the Secretary has replied that "licensed estate agents shall … with honesty, fidelity and integrity". Nevertheless, they have simply conducted no investigation into the cases cited by me. But he has replied that in the light of the complexity of the issues, public education should be enhanced, with a view to reminding the public of the issues to which they need to pay attention, and mentioned the effectiveness of education. This has led me to 2774 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 believe that the Government is most tolerant of such acts. Such government tolerance has delighted the fraudsters. But to members of the public, it is too deep for tears.
In fact, prior to 2012, regulation of the sale of uncompleted flats in Hong Kong was equally difficult and complicated. Members of the public were also reminded of the issues to which they needed to pay attention through public education, but to no avail. Consequently, following the enactment of legislation in 2012, the problems with the sale of uncompleted flats has basically been resolved now.
I have this question. While public education and the reminders given to members of the public on the issues to which they need to pay attention have now proved ineffective, will the Bureau consider introducing legislative amendments, so that the pre-sale of uncompleted flats overseas will be subject to regulation in Hong Kong, such as requiring estate agents to obtain certain official documents from local governments permitting the pre-sale of uncompleted flats by them before they can be offered for sale in Hong Kong? I do not consider such regulation a complicated issue, and I hope the authorities will take such issues seriously. May I ask whether the authorities will step up regulation or even resort to enactment of legislation?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHAN for his supplementary question. As stated by me earlier on, concerning such issues, the Government will keep a close watch on the developments. According to the figures in the past three years, the number of complaints received is rather low indeed. But this does not mean that the Government will slack off or relax its grip. Hence, if developments in the future demonstrate a need for us to take any follow-up, legislative or other action, we will absolutely take on the commitment.
Nevertheless, I also wish to take this opportunity to explain that as far as the case is concerned, between 2014 and 2016, basically as stated by me earlier on, the Police have taken a statements from 33 of the 35 informants and been following it up with the relevant United Kingdom agencies. As the investigation into the incident is still underway, it is inappropriate for us to disclose too much. We hope to get justice done for the complainants through collaboration with INTERPOL and interaction with law enforcement agencies. Moreover, in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2775 respect of the 14 complaints received between January 2016 and October 2017 against the estate agent about the failed projects it offered―I have to keep the name of the agent confidential―three of them are still under investigation. As the other five cases involve collective investment arrangements, we have referred them to the Securities and Futures Commission ("SFC") for follow-up.
Hence, I hope Members will understand that insofar as the regulation of transactions of overseas properties in Hong Kong, we will refer the cases to different law enforcement agencies for follow-up under various arrangements. We also hope to accord protection to members of the public in Hong Kong in their purchase of overseas properties as far as possible. But as the flats and relevant laws and regulations involved in the purchase of overseas properties in Hong Kong are very complicated indeed, the arrangements in different countries overseas vary. For this reason, it is actually very difficult for the regulatory scope of Hong Kong to fully cover the properties in different places globally. But we will continue to keep in view the developments and take follow-up action as and when appropriate.
MR JEREMY TAM (in Cantonese): President, given the rising property prices in Hong Kong now, many Hongkongers have bought properties overseas. Hence, it is essential to afford them protection. As stated by the Secretary in his main reply, if such licensed estate agents are suspected of breaching the Code of Ethics in the course of the sale of properties, such as the requirement that they "shall … with honesty, fidelity and integrity", EAA will follow it up and may even consider taking disciplinary actions. President, my supplementary question is simple. At present, for the sale of overseas properties in Hong Kong, be they uncompleted flats or existing stocks, must it be carried out only by licensed estate agents of Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr TAM for his question. As regards property transactions conducted in Hong Kong, if they involve local properties, the relevant estate agent must be a licensee. If the licensed estate agent also handles overseas properties in Hong Kong, he will also be subject to the regulation of EAA. Nevertheless, if the transactions of overseas properties are conducted in Hong Kong and the agent does not handle any local property transaction, he will not be required to obtain an estate agent's license. As mentioned by me in the main 2776 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 reply earlier on, overseas property developers can certainly promote their properties in Hong Kong direct, and thanks to the advancements in technology, we can even see how the overseas developers promote their properties online. We do pay attention to that, and will endeavour to conduct publicity and communication on various fronts through public education, the Consumer Council and EAA, etc., so that members of the public will be well informed of the risks involved in purchasing overseas properties, particularly those uncompleted ones, and handle the potential risks inherent in the sales conditions carefully. In our opinion, members of the public in Hong Kong must seek professional advice when purchasing properties, particularly those uncompleted ones, and obtain as much information as possible before deciding whether to invest in them.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr TAM, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR JEREMY TAM (in Cantonese): Does the Secretary mean that unlicensed estate agents are nonetheless not subject to regulation?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The reply of the Secretary has made this clear.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): President, I wish to tell the Secretary that I do not mind if he cannot help out. But he should not get on the nerves of the several hundred victims with such a reply, okay?
President, here comes my supplementary question. The Government has now indicated that education is a more effective way, and then cited the number of complaints received by the Consumer Council, saying that there were only 10 to 13 cases over each of the past three years. I can tell the Secretary that in respect of the several hundred complaints handled by me, subsequent to our discussion, we have formed the view that the Consumer Council is simply of no help. Hence, all of them have complained to the Police or SFC, or seek assistance through other channels. However, the Secretary has now told us that regulation is out of the question. Maybe the Secretary has not totally ruled out the possibility of considering it. Yet, according to him, as it involves LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2777 complicated issues, education should be a more effective way. I hope the Secretary will refrain from getting on the nerves of the victims lest they protest to the Secretary, okay?
President, I am asking the Secretary to answer my supplementary question in simple terms, as to whether a Hong Kong agent who, with neither a United Kingdom estate agent licence nor knowledge of the United Kingdom laws, still carries out sale of United Kingdom properties in Hong Kong, should be subject to regulation?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, maybe we need to differentiate between real estate transactions and collective investment. For collective investment schemes promoted in Hong Kong under which purchasers handle the rental, sale and management of properties through intermediaries instead of having immediate authority over them, they are basically collective investment projects by nature. We will refer the complaints about such activities to SFC for handling, and in case there is any signs of possible fraud, we will also refer the cases to the Police for follow-up. In response to what Mr TO said just now, as far as we understand it, for real estate projects handled through real estate agents of Hong Kong, we do have means and ability to follow them up.
As to collective investment, as it falls within the purview of SFC, we hope to handle it separately. In fact, SFC, EAA and the Police respectively handled various cases in the past, and there is no case left not entertained. I hope Members will appreciate such difference.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr TO, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): The Secretary has not answered whether a Hong Kong agent who, with neither a United Kingdom estate agent licence nor knowledge of the United Kingdom laws, is still allowed to carry out sale of United Kingdom properties in Hong Kong, an activity not being a collective investment scheme, should be subject to regulation?
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, as stated by me just now, estate agent licensees of Hong Kong handling the sale of overseas properties will also be subject to the regulation of EAA.
MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, in fact, it is not uncommon for Hongkongers to buy overseas properties. However, in recent years, particularly this year, overseas properties have been advertised heavily. Advertisements on sale of properties situated in the United Kingdom, Thailand, Malaysia and Japan are a common sight in recent years. Problems arising from such overseas properties, particularly the cases cited by Mr CHAN Han-pan, have actually shown that Hong Kong people, not well versed in legislation on overseas properties, are keen on buying properties to preserve the value of their wealth. While education is admittedly important, members of the public will accidentally fall prey to such traps in the absence of regulation.
In this connection, we may look at Malaysia where legislation has been enacted to require agents selling overseas properties to obtain a prior approval. The Secretary's remarks about the complicated situation in Hong Kong or the difficulty in regulating online property sale, etc. indicate that in addition to local properties, agents of Hong Kong may sell properties situated in other places for which they will not be held liable afterwards. I think the Secretary is doing Hong Kong people a disservice if he is reluctant to implement any regulation. Hence, may I ask the Secretary if he will draw reference from the practice of Malaysia, requiring that a prior approval must be obtained for local sale of overseas properties for regulation purposes?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, I am grateful to Mr LEUNG for his concern and suggestion in relation to this issue.
As stated in my earlier reply, we are not turning a blind eye to the situation. In fact, EAA is in the course of proactively preparing a set of guidelines for issue later this year particularly to remind estate agent licensees of the matters that they need to comply with and pay attention to in handling the sale of uncompleted LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2779 properties situated outside Hong Kong. Certainly, with the implementation of this measure, if we find that Hong Kong people are keen on buying overseas properties but the situation remains unsatisfactory, we will not rule out the possibility of taking follow-up measures.
Nevertheless, I must reiterate that we are by no means indifferent. We just notice that the number of complaints has actually remained at a low level in the past three years. We will keep a close watch on the developments and take appropriate measures when necessary.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Fifth question.
Impacts of microplastics on the ecosystem and human health
5. MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, at present, some manufacturers add microbeads of less than 1 mm in diameter to toilette products for the purpose of achieving the claimed effects of cleansing the skin and exfoliating dead skin cells. Some studies have found that microplastics (i.e. plastic pellets or flakes of less than 5 mm in diameter or length, including plastic fibres as minute as having a diameter or length of only 1 μm) are commonly present in the potable water of a number of countries. Some green groups have pointed out that the toxic substances that have adhered to and accumulated onto the surface of microplastics may find their way into the human body through the food chain, thus posing health hazards. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) as the authorities have indicated in reply to a question raised by a Member of this Council in April 2015 that in Hong Kong, there was limited information and research on microbeads, and the authorities had no statistics or inventory on those beauty and skin care products containing microbeads on sale in Hong Kong, whether the authorities have subsequently conducted the relevant researches and compiled the relevant statistics, and whether they have evaluated the impacts of microplastics on Hong Kong's ecosystem and human health; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
2780 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(2) whether the Water Supplies Department will consider conducting regular tests on the concentration of microplastics in the water bodies of reservoirs and domestic fresh water, and publishing such results on a regular basis; whether any technology is currently employed in sewage treatment works to remove microplastics from sewage; whether the Drainage Services Department ("DSD") has tested, on a regular basis, the concentration of microplastics in treated effluent; if DSD has conducted tests, since when such tests were conducted and of the outcome of those tests; if not, whether DSD will consider conducting such tests; and
(3) given that the Government of the United States legislated in 2015 against the production and sale of toilette products that contain microplastics, and the governments of places like Taiwan and Korea have indicated that they will legislate in this regard expeditiously, whether the authorities will enact legislation expeditiously to regulate the sale of products containing microplastics in Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): President, microplastics refer to plastics that are less than 5 millimetres (mm) in size, including microbeads and microfibres. Microplastics can be categorized as "primary" or "secondary" according to their sources. Primary microplastics such as plastic raw materials or microbeads are products intentionally manufactured through industrial process, while secondary microplastics are generally breakdown products of abandoned plastics and refuse degraded after entering the environment. Therefore, microplastics may originate from additives in personal cleansing and care products (e.g. toothpaste and cosmetic skin care products), as well as degraded clothing, carpets and plastic substances.
The potential impact of microplastics on ecological environment and human health remains to be a pretty fresh topic of global concern, which mainly focuses on two aspects. First, when microplastics are discharged with untreated or incompletely-treated sewage into enclosed water bodies such as lakes, they may gradually accumulate and may be consumed by aquatic organizms as food. Second, microplastics could hardly be further degraded in or be removed from the natural environment once entered waters or the sea. If toxic substances attach to or build up on their surfaces, the microplastics may impact on the entire LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2781 ecosystem or even human beings when they pass up the food chain. Scientists worldwide are still exploring and studying the issue, and have yet to fully understand the environmental fate of microplastics, as well as their environmental and ecological impact. Nonetheless, the international understanding is that precautionary measures should be put in place as early as possible to reduce plastics entering the marine environment.
Regarding drinking water, the Water Supplies Department ("WSD") monitors the quality of drinking water in accordance with the Hong Kong Drinking Water Standards which adopts the Guidelines for Drinking-water Quality of the World Health Organization ("WHO"). At present, WHO has not yet included plastic fibre material in health-related parameters that need to be monitored. Global researches on plastic fibre material and its monitoring method are still in the early stage. WSD has engaged consultants to collect information on the topic of plastic fibre material and to conduct a review of its risks on drinking water safety. WSD will also closely monitor the development of related international researches. If the researches find that the presence of plastic fibre material in drinking water will pose a risk to drinking water safety and a relevant benchmark can be set, WSD will work with the experts and consult relevant government departments to consider including plastic fibre material in the monitoring programme and take corresponding measures.
As for the toxic substances in the aquatic environment, the monitoring data of the Environmental Protection Department ("EPD") show that the levels of toxic substances in our marine waters, sediments and biota are relatively low. They also fully comply with the standards for protection of marine life and human health adopted both locally and overseas, such as the United States, Canada, European Union, Australia and Japan.
On the removal rate of microplastics by sewage treatment works, currently there has not been any local research conducted, and we do not have data on the removal rate of microplastics by chemically enhanced primary treatment works. As microplastics are suspended solids, sewage containing them discharged into the sewerage system will be conveyed to chemically enhanced primary treatment works for suitable treatment, including the sedimentation process. Making reference to their removal rate of suspended solids being at least 80%, we anticipate that the existing sewage treatment facilities in Hong Kong should be capable of removing most of the microplastics in sewage.
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According to EPD's communication with relevant overseas countries or regions through various channels, some countries or regions have announced their plans to regulate certain microplastics-containing products through legislation, mainly targeting at rinse-off products for personal care and cosmetic purposes, e.g. face cleanser and shower cream. Some countries or regions also encourage consumers to use other alternatives such as natural vegetation to replace microbeads so as to reduce the amount of microplastics entering the sea.
In the case of Hong Kong, personal care and cosmetic products in local market are mainly imported from overseas. EPD has a preliminary grasp that the top 10 imported international brands account for about 60% of the local retail market for personal care and cosmetic products, with the brands from France, Japan and Korea dominating the market. Some of these brands have already announced that they will cease the manufacture of products containing microplastics in the coming few years. At present, there are rinse-off products without microbeads available locally, and more and more products are using other alternatives.
To assess more accurately the impact of microplastics in the local context, and to learn more about the specific details and implementation approaches of the bans on personal care and cosmetic products containing microplastics in the international arena, the Government will commence a consultancy study within a few months to formulate proposals applicable to Hong Kong. Subject to the analytical results of the consultancy study, the Government will consider conducting environmental analytical studies on microplastics in Hong Kong. The scopes of these studies may include marine waters, sediments, biota and pollution sources (such as discharges from sewage treatment works and stormwater drains).
EPD also plans to launch measures to encourage the business sector to stop selling personal care and cosmetic products containing microplastics. Consumers will also be encouraged to purchase and use other alternatives to replace microplastics products to reduce the risk of such substance entering the sea and causing pollution.
MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary mentioned in the ninth paragraph of the main reply that "EPD also plans to launch measures to encourage the business sector to stop selling personal care and cosmetic LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2783 products containing microplastics". Do the authorities not consider regulation by way of legislation, or first engage a consultant to conduct a study and tackle the issue after examining the circumstances? President, what approach will the authorities adopt to encourage the industry to stop selling personal care products containing microplastics?
SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): President, I think Mr LEUNG's main concern is whether the authorities will only devote efforts to one aspect or adopt a two-pronged approach. I think my reply now is, on the one hand, we will communicate with the industry. There are microplastics-free products on the market already, and we will encourage the industry to offer more such kind of products. At the same time, as I have said, we will conduct a relevant study to examine how different approaches can be applied in the local context. Should the need arise, we do not rule out legislation. However, I believe Members will also agree that we should observe the latest situations locally and internationally to determine how to employ the appropriate means to most properly take precautionary measures that are applicable to Hong Kong's ecosystem and can protect people's health.
MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): President, I already asked the Secretary a question on microplastics in 2015, and back then I also pointed out that microplastics would pose a very high risk to the environment. However, unfortunately, I have only heard the Secretary say today that a study will be conducted later on. It is really disappointing.
I have this question for the Secretary. A small bottle of face cleanser already contains 350 000 microbeads, and the United States, Canada and the Netherlands have either legislated or planned to legislate on prohibiting the use of microbeads. But Hong Kong is starting to conduct a relevant study only now to see if the import of products containing microplastics should be banned or other substitutes should be used. Will it in turn provide an opportunity for other countries to export all their products containing microplastics to Hong Kong for sale? Does the Secretary know whether the number of microplastics-containing products containing microplastics sold on the Hong Kong market has increased compared to two or a few years ago?
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SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): President, the information we have collected suggests that, at present, relevant laws overseas mainly ban some manufacturers from manufacturing products that contain microplastics; there is not yet a total ban on sale. Members need to understand this point. Indeed, efforts made internationally at this are still at the early stage.
We notice that more and more of the beauty and skin care products sold in Hong Kong in recent years use substitutes to replace microplastics as ingredients, so there are more choices on the market. We have learnt from the discussion with the industry that manufacturers will launch more new products onto the market. It is evident from such a spontaneous market trend that Hong Kong and other places are developing in a positive direction.
MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, people "distributing plastics" on the Internet are at the most laughed at because of their absurdity and silliness, but the "plastics" contained in these beauty products do not make anyone laugh.
There have been reports about microplastics being found in bottled water and even beer. In fact, once microplastics enter water sources or the food chain, there is no way for people to take precautions. People are very concerned about the Government's position but the Environment Bureau only mentioned encouragement in the entire reply. Yet, as far as waste disposal is concerned, the Government immediately proposed quantity-based charging so as to change people's behaviour.
May I ask the Secretary whether it is possible to directly influence manufacturers to use substitutes in place of microplastics as ingredients of products only through encouragement but not legislation? How effective is encouragement alone?
SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): President, what I mean is we do more than just offering incentives. I have already said that it is a relatively new topic in the international community. Even though some countries or regions have declared their intention of legislation, no specific contents have been drawn up yet. Members should understand this point.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2785
Some countries and regions, especially those where there are more rivers or lakes, bear a higher risk of accumulating microplastics because lakes can be a source of water or food. However, as I have just said, Hong Kong is not a place with large lakes or rivers, but we still pay attention to the situation. WSD and EPD will launch a relevant study to gain understanding of the risk of microplastics to Hong Kong, as well as the latest progress of legislation in the international community. We have adopted a prudent approach to understanding and following up the issue.
As I have just stated, legislation in the international community currently―even legislation that is claimed to be proceeded with shortly―approaches the matter from a prevention angle. The impact of such substance on human health and the ecosystem is still being studied. Therefore, the international understanding of this issue and that of the subject of waste disposal as mentioned by the Honourable Member just now present different degrees of maturity. Nonetheless, the Government adopts a positive attitude in examining the local circumstances and the latest developments overseas, with a view to identifying which means―regulation by way of legislation or voluntary use of substitutes by the industry―best suits Hong Kong.
IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): President, honestly on the world market, various types of new products can contain all kinds of synthetic substances―it is impossible to enumerate them and new substances will emerge from time to time.
Such substances, while the products are being used or after they are disposed of at landfills at the end of their service life, will be transferred to soil. Some may affect water quality while some even affect air.
Actually, I wish to ask the Secretary if the Environment Bureau and EPD have dedicated personnel in charge of monitoring soil, water sources and air. I am not talking about monitoring normal substances, but potentially toxic new substances that may emerge. Have the authorities carried out surveillance on this and how is the implementation?
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SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): President, I thank Ir Dr LO for his supplementary question. Simply put, since more than 10 years ago (2004), EPD has been conducting monitoring and assessment on a series of toxic substances, especially the marine environment which is of great public concern. The scope of monitoring covers marine waters, sediments, biota and even potential pollution sources on land, such as domestic sewage, storm water runoff on ground and river courses. The authorities have been persistently conducting a series of monitoring covering these areas. Just as I have mentioned, through new studies, the authorities will locate areas that warrant exploration and enhancement and keep abreast of the times.
DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary pointed out in his main reply that, regardless of the study being undertaken now, "the international understanding is that precautionary measures should be put in place as early as possible to reduce plastics entering the marine environment". The latest research report indicates that, after testing 159 water samples from over 12 countries in the world, 83% of them was found to contain plastic materials. Plastic materials once entered the ocean will definitely affect the ecosystem; the question is how serious it will be.
The Secretary mentioned just now that a study is now underway, but the environment has already been affected. I wish to ask the Government whether it has to be so late to catch up and always wait until a lot of studies have been completed before taking reasonable actions. Can we take one step ahead and not follow other countries? Hong Kong is a very big consumer city. Other countries and regions do so perhaps because they have factories producing the plastic materials at source. However, Hong Kong is not a producer but a user. Can we take the lead to, through promotion and publicity, encourage the general public to refrain from using products containing microplastics? I have not seen any work done by the Government in this respect.
Second, apart from encouragement, should legislation be enacted as soon as possible to ban products containing microplastics from being sold on the market? I think Hong Kong needs not always follow other countries' practices. If we attach so much importance to the environment, we do not need to wait and can take one step ahead.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2787
SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): President, I thank Dr QUAT for her supplementary question. I have to point out first of all that even if some foreign places declare the formulation of or consider making some laws to ban the use of microplastics, currently the so-called testing standards or law enforcement criteria have yet to be specifically fleshed out. Simply put, even though some places are keenly concerned about this issue, they are still at the exploration stage.
Moreover, I have stated in my main reply earlier that a place with rivers or lakes are relatively more susceptible to the accumulation of microplastics. They have a greater need to take precautions to protect their potable water and food chain. However, as I have pointed out just now, accordingly to tests on the marine environment conducted in Hong Kong, the content of such substances is still relatively low. Hence, objectively speaking, the environment in Hong Kong is different and so our position on the matter is not the same as other places.
That said, I have mentioned in the last paragraph of my main reply that the authorities hope to adopt a multi-pronged approach: on the one hand, we will communicate with the relevant industries to discuss how to encourage consumers to select and purchase microplastics-free products in terms of procurement and consumer information; and on the other, the authorities will launch a study to examine how overseas laws and regulations can be appropriately adapted for application in Hong Kong.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Last question seeking an oral reply.
History on the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression
6. DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, the Government holds a ceremony on 13 December annually since 2014 in commemoration of the victims who died in the Nanjing Massacre and those killed during the war of Japanese invasion of China. Moreover, the Government holds a ceremony on Chung Yeung Festival annually to pay tribute to those who died in defence of Hong Kong during the Second World War ("WWII"). However, Hong Kong has not yet set up any memorial hall or erected any sculpture dedicated to the commemoration of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
2788 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(1) whether the authorities will set up a memorial hall of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression in Hong Kong and allocate resources to study, collate and permanently preserve information on those historical events which members of the public are less familiar, such as the Nanshitou Massacre and the heroic anti-Japanese campaigns waged by the Hong Kong Independent Battalion of the Dongjiang Column, and to display the relevant historical information as permanent exhibitions in the aforesaid memorial hall, so as to let the public, in particular the young people, deepen their knowledge of the history related to WWII, such as Nanjing Massacre and Hong Kong residents' resistance against Japanese aggression; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(2) given that some cities, such as San Francisco in the United States and Seoul of Korea, have erected bronze statues of comfort women in public places, whether the authorities will erect statues of comfort women in public places in Hong Kong to console and commemorate the comfort women who were subject to the coercion and brutality of Japanese soldiers during WWII; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(3) whether the authorities will incorporate the relevant historical information mentioned in (1) and (2) into the Chinese History curriculum for secondary schools so as to educate the young people about the relevant history; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region has always attached importance to the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression (especially the history of Japanese invasion and occupation of Hong Kong). Over the years, the Government has conducted research, exhibitions as well as educational and extension programmes. Official memorial ceremonies are annually held on 3 September and 13 December respectively to commemorate the victory of the Chinese people's War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and to express condolences to the victims in the War; former members from the Dongjiang Column have also been invited. These activities LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2789 aim at fostering the public's understanding of this important chapter of history. The Home Affairs Bureau and Education Bureau's consolidated reply to various parts of the Dr Elizabeth QUAT's question is as follows:
(1) and (2)
The Hong Kong Museum of History ("HKMH") and the Hong Kong Museum of Coastal Defence ("HKMCD") under the Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD") have put in place permanent exhibitions that cover the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression, including the Japanese invasion of China, the Japanese assault on Hong Kong, the battles against Japan, the guerrillas of the Dongjiang Column and Hong Kong under Japanese occupation. HKMH and HKMCD will revamp their permanent exhibitions―the one at HKMH will cover the role of Hong Kong in the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression in a holistic approach, whereas the one at HKMCD will introduce the military history of Hong Kong commencing from the Tang dynasty to Hong Kong's return to the Motherland, including the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression, on a topical basis, with a view to enhancing the public's understanding of the cruelty of war and the importance of peace.
In addition to the permanent exhibitions, the two museums organize thematic exhibitions on the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression to enhance the public's understanding of the historical events. Examples of recent displays include "Anti-Japanese War Heroes: An Exhibition on the Hong Kong Independent Battalion of the Dongjiang Column" (2013) to show the bravery and achievements of this local battalion, "Pictorial Exhibition on the Nanjing Massacre" (2014), "Fighting as One: Reminders of the Eight Years' War of Resistance in Guangdong and Hong Kong" (2015) and "Braving the Storm: Hong Kong under Japanese Occupation" (2016) to depict Hong Kong's role in the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and how Hong Kong people joined hands with fellow patriots, guerrilla forces and international allies to combat against the Japanese aggression. Furthermore, both museums organize from time to time programmes such as lectures, documentary shows, guided tours to military sites, etc., to deepen the public's understanding of the history of the War of Resistance.
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As regards related research, HKMH engaged experts and academics to conduct research projects on the topic, including "Oral History Project on Reminiscence of the War Experience in Hong Kong", "Oral History Project on Former Members of the Hong Kong-Kowloon Brigade of the East River Column", etc. Some of the findings were published in The Defence of Hong Kong: Collected Essays on the Hong Kong-Kowloon Brigade of the East River Column. HKMH will continue to devote resources to study, collate and preserve the valuable historical records and exhibits relating to the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression in Hong Kong, and introduce the historical events to the public through exhibitions and publications.
Given that the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression is presented at the permanent exhibitions of the two public museums, the Government currently has no plan to establish another museum on the same theme or erect a commemorative sculpture of comfort women for the time being.
(3) According to the information provided by the Education Bureau, Chinese History curricula of junior and senior secondary levels comprise the topics of the "Second Nationalist-Communist United Front" and the "War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression" respectively; and the History curricula comprise the topics of "International Conflicts and Threats to Peace in the 20th Century: The Two World Wars" and "Conflicts and Co-operation in the 20th Century World", for teaching students about the history of Chinese resistance against Japanese aggression in the 20th century. These topics cover the atrocities of Japanese troops, such as the Nanjing Massacre and their abuse inflicted on women. As regards the history of comfort women and the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression in Hong Kong, different textbooks introduce these via different approaches, such as by highlighting the topics in feature columns or introducing them in the general content. Teachers may further elaborate the topic based on historical facts. The Education Bureau's publications―70th Anniversary of the Victory of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and Historical Images of Modern China―also give detailed account of the brutality of Japanese troops during the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2791
DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, the Japanese troops invaded Hong Kong in 1941 and killed many unarmed civilians. Hong Kong people joined forces to fight against Japanese aggression and protect their country. Many of them were killed. It was a tragic episode in Hong Kong history filled with blood and tears. However, many young people in Hong Kong nowadays know nothing about the history. They have never heard of the Nanshitou Massacre and do not know there were comfort women in Hong Kong. To effectively protect heritage and help Hong Kong people reflect on history and preserve the local culture, there is indeed a need to establish a memorial hall for the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression in Hong Kong.
In his main reply, the Secretary pointed out that HKMH and HKMCD have put in place permanent exhibitions, which I believe the President and the Secretary must have visited. But do people know that these permanent exhibitions are so small that only a few exhibits relating to WWII are displayed? Moreover, the Secretary also mentioned in his main reply that thematic exhibitions on the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression had been organized. Since these topics were important and worth exhibiting, why are they not turned into permanent exhibitions? To what place were the exhibits removed after the thematic exhibitions?
Exhibitions have been organized in the community and much information has been collected for that purpose. Many elderly people told us that they owned historical relics and objects worth preservation. These objects will have nowhere to be stored after their deaths. Why do we not set up a museum or a memorial hall to permanently preserve and display the information collected and the exhibits donated by members of the public?
The Secretary also said in his main reply that the museum has published a book …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Elizabeth QUAT, please state your supplementary question directly.
DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, I know. There are not many people who know about that book. Also, the Secretary did not reply to part (2) of my main question at all, which concerns the erection of statues of 2792 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 comfort women. Are the comfort women in Hong Kong not commemorable? Is such history not worth our attention and care? I have this supplementary question. Under what circumstances can a memorial for the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression be set up? Can HKMCD be renamed Memorial Hall of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, I totally agree with Dr Elizabeth QUAT that it is important for young people in Hong Kong to understand this chapter of history. In fact, it is also important to learn to cherish peace in addition to understanding the War of Resistance. As I have pointed out in the main reply just now, HKMH and HKMCD constantly showcase the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression through exhibitions, lectures and education presenting the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression. I think the two museums can further enhance the message in this regard in the course of revamps in the future.
The historic role of the Dongjiang Column in Hong Kong should similarly not be overlooked. LCSD has organized exhibitions on this topic in the past and collected some historical relics. Members of the public who have the relevant relics in their possession, may submit them to us for preservation and future exhibitions of HKMCD.
The book referred to by Dr QUAT, that is, The Defence of Hong Kong: Collected Essays on the Hong Kong-Kowloon Brigade of the East River Column published in 2004 by HKMH, carries a detailed description of the history of the Dongjiang Column. We hope Members and the public can give it a read. Insofar as setting up an independent memorial hall for the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression is concerned, I believe the effort made by the two museums to showcase the history and enhance people's awareness is sufficient for the time being. I hope Dr QUAT will understand that we are constantly stepping up work in this respect.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr QUAT, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2793
DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): The Secretary did not answer whether the Government would consider renaming HKMCD as "Memorial Hall of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression".
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, the name is provided for in law. As a matter of fact, the history showcased by HKMCD is not limited to the Japanese aggression period. It also includes the military history of the period from Tang Dynasty to the Garrison of the Chinese People's Liberation Army after the reunification. The history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression is only part of the exhibition content of the museum.
MR LAM CHEUK-TING (in Cantonese): President, I believe history education is very important as we need to understand the history in the correct light in order to move forward. I would like to cite a historical fact here and ask the Secretary for Education, Mr Kevin YEUNG, and the Secretary for Home Affairs, Mr LAU Kong-wah, to reply whether it will be covered in future exhibitions or public education?
The Communist Party of China often emphasizes that it was the mainstay of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression. It ignores the contribution of 3 million Kuomintang soldiers and brutally persecuted them after the war. In addition, MAO Zedong declared in August 1937 at the Luochuan Meeting "10% for fighting against the Japanese, 20% for compromise, 70% for self-development and 100% for publicity", showing that he did not intend to fight against Japanese aggression. Will the Administration consider including this historical fact in future public education and publicity so that people in Hong Kong and all over the world (including the Mainland) can correctly understand the history of resistance against Japanese aggression?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which Secretary will answer this supplementary question? Secretary for Home Affairs, please reply.
2794 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, HKMCD showcases the military history of different periods. Of course, the whole course of history involves various elements and the participation of many parties. I believe our professional team will certainly showcase the relevant historical facts in such exhibitions.
MR LAM CHEUK-TING (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary has not answered my question.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LAM, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR LAM CHEUK-TING (in Cantonese): President, I asked Secretary Kevin YEUNG whether he would consider including the piece of history cited by me just now in future education and public publicity.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LAM, please sit down. Secretary for Education, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Cantonese): President, I am sorry that I did not hear Mr LAM say "education" just now. I thought he said "public education". Insofar as the Chinese History curriculum in school education is concerned, teachers may choose suitable materials for teaching and help students analyse the course of history of that period as well as its impact on the development of the country. As stated in the main reply, the topics of the "Second Nationalist-Communist United front" and the "War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression" are covered in the Chinese History curriculum; while the latter is also included in the senior secondary level curriculum. Schools are allowed under the curriculum to present such information for teaching students and doing analyses with them.
MR KENNETH LAU (in Cantonese): President, many unsung heroes in history who sacrificed themselves for the country silently should be commemorated by the later generations. As the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression is LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2795 an important chapter of history of Hong Kong, the New Territories Heung Yee Kuk organized a few years ago a pictorial exhibition of Hong Kong's battalion against Japanese Aggression and a half-day guided tour to historical sites marking the resistance against Japanese Aggression, so that people could get to learn about these places on-site. At present, two public museums showcase the historical events in Hong Kong during the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and put in place thematic exhibitions from time to time. However, academic guided tours which are more interactive can be organized so that people and students may visit such sites as Chek Keng village in Sai Kung which was a training base of the Dongjiang Column, Pat Heung Old Temple which was a base of resistance against Japanese aggression and the Sha Tau Kok area where there are monuments of defence facilities. Will LCSD consider organizing educational activities at these historical sites so that people can experience on-site the history of Hong Kong during the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, I very much agree with Mr LAU that there is rich heritage in the New Territories related to the Japanese aggression period. The Antiquities and Monuments Office has preserved some historical sites where guided tours are organized. Certainly, we are glad to cooperate with Heung Yee Kuk to explore areas in which the work can be extended. Coupled with the exhibitions and lectures to be organized after the revamp of HKMCD, I believe the younger generation will stand to benefit from some on-site visits and experience.
MR POON SIU-PING (in Cantonese): The Secretary just now said that the Government attaches great importance to the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and holds an official ceremony on 3 September and 13 December annually for the purpose of fostering the public's understanding of this chapter of history. In 2015, the Government's proposal for designating 3 September of that year as a statutory holiday (the 70th anniversary of the victory of the Chinese people's war of resistance against Japanese aggression) was passed by the Legislative Council so as to enhance people's awareness of the history and facilitate wage earners' participation in various commemorative activities. Will the Government consider designating the victory day of Chinese people's war of resistance against Japanese aggression as a regular statutory holiday?
2796 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, I will convey the suggestion made by the Honourable Member to the relevant Policy Bureau for consideration.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, part (2) of the main question clearly asked whether the authorities will consider erecting statues of comfort women in public places in Hong Kong, but the reply of the Secretary was that two museums have put in place exhibitions covering the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression. These are in fact two separate matters. The erection of statues of comfort women in public places will arouse more attention, reach out to more people and cost less money or time than setting up a memorial hall. However, the Secretary said that as there are relevant exhibitions, they would not consider erecting statues of comfort women in public places. Dr Elizabeth QUAT did not accept the Secretary's explanation just now. I have this question. At the end of the day, do the authorities refuse to do so because they are afraid of offending the Japanese Government?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, the two museums constantly showcase the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and will enhance their efforts in this regard in the future, so it shows that the Government will continue to work hard to this end. A wide range of elements were involved in the history of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression which can be understood and expressed in various manners. We will listen to different opinions during the future revamp of HKMCD. I do not think there is any need to set up a separate memorial hall for the time being. Meanwhile, we will step up our efforts in this regard in the existing museums.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): The Secretary did not answer my supplementary question. Are they afraid of offending the Japanese Government?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2797
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, I have already answered the Member's question.
(Mr CHAN Chi-chuen stood up)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members may follow up through other channels if they are not satisfied with the replies from public officers.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, I did not mean that. I request a headcount.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(While the summoning bell was ringing, THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)
(While the summoning bell was ringing, a number of Members returned to the Chamber but did not return to their seats)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please return to their seats.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, have you finished your reply?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I have finished.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Oral questions end here.
2798 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Police divisions under the Yuen Long Police District
7. MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Chinese): President, at present, Yuen Long Division, Pat Heung Division and Tin Shui Wai Division are established under the Yuen Long Police District. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the respective numbers of crimes, together with a breakdown, which occurred in the aforesaid three police divisions in the past three years;
(2) of the respective current establishments of front-line police officers in the three police divisions; whether it will consider expanding the establishments of police officers in these divisions; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) of the respective current police-to-population ratios in various police divisions across the territory (set out in descending order); whether the relevant ratios in the three divisions are lower than the territory-wide average; if so, whether it will consider boosting the former to bring them on par with the territory-wide average; and
(4) given that the present population in Tin Shui Wai district has exceeded 300 000, whether the authorities will consider upgrading Tin Shui Wai Division to a police district; if so, of the implementation schedule; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, the Yuen Long District comes under the New Territories North Region of the Police, and the Yuen Long Division, Pat Heung Division and Tin Shui Wai Division are established under it. The Police have been closely monitoring the crime situation and policing needs of the district, and adequate police strength has been deployed to maintain law and order having regard to relevant factors such as community development and population growth.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2799
My reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) The numbers and breakdown of crimes in Yuen Long Division, Pat Heung Division and Tin Shui Wai Division in the past three years are at Annex 1.
(2) and (3)
The current establishment of police officers in Yuen Long Division, Pat Heung Division and Tin Shui Wai Division are 298, 65 and 370 respectively. The ratio of establishment of police officers to population of all police divisions in Hong Kong are at Annex 2. The police-to-population ratio of these three divisions is approximately in the middle region among all police divisions.
To ensure the provision of efficient and appropriate police service to the communities in Yuen Long, Pat Heung and Tin Shui Wai, the Yuen Long Police District has always been closely monitoring the law and order and traffic situations in the district and flexibly deploys resources of the police district, including providing support from the crime investigation unit of Yuen Long District Headquarters when necessary. Besides, New Territories North Region will also from time to time deploy frontline staff from its operations wing and crime wing to Yuen Long Police District to provide support so as to meet local operational needs.
The Police review their policing arrangements of various districts from time to time so as to meet policing needs. Apart from population and projected population growth, the Police will also take into account other characteristics of the district, such as land use, traffic and infrastructural developments, geographical characteristics, crime trends, etc.
The Police currently have no plan to expand the establishment of police officers in the various divisions under the Yuen Long Police District.
(4) As to whether we would consider upgrading Tin Shui Wai Division to a police district, generally speaking, in studying whether it is necessary to upgrade a division to a Police district, the Police will 2800 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
consider multiple factors, including population and projected population growth, traffic and infrastructural developments, geographical characteristics, crime rate and crime trends, etc., so as to meet policing needs and the public's demand for Police service.
Annex 1
Crime figures of Yuen Long Division (2015 to October 2017)
2017 Crimes 2015 2016 (January to October) Overall Crime Figures 2 970 2 683 1 888 Violent crime 524 508 309 Other crime 2 446 2 175 1 579 Major Types of Cases Robbery 23 16 13 Burglary 112 131 64 Wounding/Serious Assault 309 303 187 Car Theft 78 57 46 Theft from Vehicle 47 38 33 Criminal Damage 283 231 201 Indecent Assault 31 41 17 Blackmail 45 36 16 Criminal Intimidation 56 67 48 Serious Drug Offences 94 75 71
Crime figures of Pat Heung Division (2015 to October 2017)
2017 Crimes 2015 2016 (January to October) Overall Crime Figures 532 463 395 Violent crime 105 90 65 Other crime 427 373 330 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2801
2017 Crimes 2015 2016 (January to October) Major Types of Cases Robbery 4 1 1 Burglary 56 56 48 Wounding/Serious Assault 56 44 35 Car Theft 25 38 25 Theft from Vehicle 26 10 8 Criminal Damage 76 77 70 Indecent Assault 5 7 5 Blackmail 12 12 4 Criminal Intimidation 15 13 13 Serious Drug Offences 22 7 4
Crime figures of Tin Shui Wai Division (2015 to October 2017)
2017 Crimes 2015 2016 (January to October) Overall Crime Figures 1 835 1 695 1 368 Violent crime 416 368 312 Other crime 1 419 1 327 1 056 Major Types of Cases Robbery 7 7 7 Burglary 45 55 31 Wounding/Serious Assault 206 192 145 Car Theft 31 25 23 Theft from Vehicle 34 25 32 Criminal Damage 211 219 181 Indecent Assault 48 33 44 Blackmail 60 42 23 Criminal Intimidation 68 54 60 Serious Drug Offences 53 42 28
2802 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Annex 2
Ratio of establishment of police officers to population of all police divisions in Hong Kong
Police division Ratio of establishment of police officers to population Ta Kwu Ling 1:28 Sha Tau Kok 1:36 Lok Ma Chau 1:87 Tsim Sha Tsui 1:95 Lantau South 1:152 Wan Chai 1:251 Yau Ma Tei 1:260 Cheung Chau 1:311 Kowloon City 1:401 Happy Valley 1:467 Sai Kung 1:514 Ngau Tau Kok 1:602 Sham Shui Po 1:663 Aberdeen 1:687 Cheung Sha Wan 1:690 Western 1:765 North Point 1:795 Lantau North 1:795 Pat Heung 1:797 Yuen Long 1:815 Hung Hom 1:870 Tin Shui Wai 1:890 Sha Tin 1:891 Tuen Mun 1:1 008 Kwai Chung 1:1 014 Castle Peak 1:1 016 Sau Mau Ping 1:1 088 Sheung Shui 1:1 111 Chai Wan 1:1 184 Tin Sum 1:1 217 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2803
Police division Ratio of establishment of police officers to population Ma On Shan 1:1 223 Tsing Yi 1:1 289 Tai Po 1:1 356
Notes:
(1) Figures are rounded to the nearest integer.
(2) The above figures do not include Marine Harbour, Marine East, Marine West, Marine South and Marine North Divisions where there is no population or population is scarce.
(3) Central, Mong Kok, Tsuen Wan, Tseung Kwan O and Kwun Tong Districts are not established with any division, while the part of Wong Tai Sin District other than its Sai Kung Division is not established with any division, hence they have not been included in the above table.
Facilities at bus termini in the districts of Tuen Mun and Yuen Long
8. DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Chinese): President, many bus drivers have relayed to me that in order to cope with the traffic demand brought about by the population growth in the districts of Tuen Mun and Yuen Long in recent years, the number of bus routes passing those districts and their service frequencies have increased substantially. As a result, the sizes of many bus termini in the districts (including the bus terminus at Yuen Long (West) and the bus termini at Leung King Estate, Tin Heng Estate and Tin Yan Estate), which were built many years ago, and the facilities of the bus regulator's kiosks provided there can no longer cope with the demand. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether the sizes of and facilities at the aforesaid bus termini currently meet the relevant standards stipulated in the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines and the Transport Planning and Design Manual;
(2) of the respective numbers of applications from franchised bus companies for operating new bus routes and increasing bus service frequencies rejected by the authorities in the past five years on grounds of the constraints of the aforesaid bus termini; and
2804 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(3) whether it has plans to expand the aforesaid bus termini; if so, how the authorities will overcome the technical difficulties?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, my consolidated reply to the question raised by Dr CHENG Chung-tai is as follows:
At present, the standards and locational factors for bus termini are specified in Chapter 8―"Internal Transport Facilities" of the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines ("HKPSG"), while the detailed guidance on the location and design for bus termini is set out in the Transport Planning and Design Manual ("TPDM") prepared by the Transport Department ("TD") and the Highways Department. Although the four bus termini mentioned in the question (i.e. Yuen Long (West) Bus Terminus, Tin Heng Estate Bus Terminus in Tin Shui Wai, Tin Yan Estate Bus Terminus in Tin Shui Wai and Leung King Estate Bus Terminus in Tuen Mun) have been in use for some time, they remain in compliance with the relevant standards as set out in the current HKPSG and TPDM. These bus termini have four to eight bus bays, which are sufficient for the operational needs of existing bus routes. An overview of these four bus termini is set out at Annex for reference.
As per the existing mechanism, the introduction of new franchised bus routes is basically not constrained by the availability of space in a bus terminus. Rather, it is to be considered having regard to the passenger demand for the new service. At present, franchised bus companies shall submit annually to TD their proposals on introducing new routes and making service adjustment, etc. with a view to meeting passenger demand. Upon receipt of the proposals, TD will take into account factors including changes in population, patronage and infrastructural developments, and draw reference to the Guidelines on Service Improvement and Reduction in Bus Route Programmes. The proposals will then be implemented after consultation with the District Councils concerned. In case all bus bays of a bus terminus are occupied by existing routes yet there is still a genuine need for introducing new routes or improving the frequency of existing ones, TD and the franchised bus companies will, on the premise of meeting passenger needs, devise corresponding measures, which may include shared usage of a bus bay by two or more routes with less frequent trips, addition of bus lay-bys on roads nearby the bus termini, arranging new routes to terminate at other bus termini in the vicinity, or operating appropriate routes as circular routes, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2805 so as to optimize the spatial usage of bus termini and meet passenger demand. In the past five years, TD did not reject any application from franchised bus companies for introducing new bus routes or improving the frequency of existing ones on grounds of insufficient space at the above four bus termini. At present, there is also no plan to expand these bus termini.
Moreover, the Government has all along urged the franchised bus companies, as responsible enterprises, to provide suitable rest facilities for bus captains at bus termini. Such facilities are available at all of the four bus termini in question. Should bus companies apply for the provision of additional rest facilities, TD will coordinate with the relevant government departments as appropriate in the course of vetting such applications. Meanwhile, TD will also liaise closely with the franchised bus companies to assist them in canvassing support from the local communities. Where necessary, TD will arrange stakeholders, such as relevant District Council members and residents' organizations, to attend site visits with representatives of franchised bus companies to explore feasible solutions for erection of the rest facilities, with a view to expediting the implementation of the plans for addition of rest facilities to benefit both bus captains and passengers.
Annex
Overview of Bus Termini at Yuen Long (West), Leung King Estate (Tuen Mun), Tin Heng Estate (Tin Shui Wai) and Tin Yan Estate (Tin Shui Wai)
Provision of Number Bus En route bus regulator District of bus Terminating bus route(s) terminus route(s) kiosk and bays rest facilities Yuen Yuen 8 Regular routes: - Yes Long Long - KMB route nos. 54, (West) 64K, 68M and 968 Bus - MTR bus route Terminus no. K73
2806 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Provision of Number Bus En route bus regulator District of bus Terminating bus route(s) terminus route(s) kiosk and bays rest facilities Special departure routes: - KMB route nos. 68X, 77K and 968X
Weekend holiday route: - KMB route no. 264R
Overnight route: - KMB route no. N368
(10 routes in total) Tuen Leung 4 Regular routes: Regular route: Yes Mun King - KMB route nos. 58M - CTB route Estate and 58X no. B3A Bus Terminus Special departure route: (1 route in - KMB route no. 961P total)
(3 routes in total) Yuen Tin Heng 5 Regular routes: - Yes Long Estate - KMB route nos. 265B, Bus 265M and 276A Terminus - MTR bus route nos. K73 and K76
Special departure route: - KMB route no. 269P
(6 routes in total) LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2807
Provision of Number Bus En route bus regulator District of bus Terminating bus route(s) terminus route(s) kiosk and bays rest facilities Yuen Tin Yan 4 Regular routes: - Yes Long Estate - KMB route nos. 69C Bus and 269M Terminus - CTB route nos. 967 and 967X
Special departure route: - KMB route no. 269B - MTR bus route no. K73
(6 routes in total)
Notes:
KMB―The Kowloon Motor Bus Company (1933) Limited
CTB―Citybus Limited
New strategies to encourage the staging of events or activities in Hong Kong
9. MR MA FUNG-KWOK (in Chinese): President, the Mega Events Fund ("MEF") ceased operation in March this year after eight years' operation. On the other hand, the Government has, in this financial year, adopted the following four new strategies to encourage and support different organizations to stage events or activities in Hong Kong: (1) providing one-stop support for large-scale commercial events with significant tourism merits, (2) cultivating home-grown events to enhance their status, (3) supporting international events with significant branding impact on Hong Kong, and (4) introducing a pilot scheme to support tourism activities showcasing Hong Kong's local characteristics. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
2808 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(1) whether it knows, among the events previously supported by MEF, the number of those which will be/have been held again in this financial year; of the channels through which the organizers of such events can apply/have applied for financial and other support from the Government when holding the events again; the number of the relevant applications received by the Government in the past six months, and set out by name of event the support rendered by the Government (if any); if there are events not receiving any support, of the reasons for that;
(2) of the criteria adopted by the Government for determining whether an event is a "large-scale commercial event with significant tourism merits"; whether it knows if there were events of this category held in Hong Kong in the past six months; if so, of the number of those which were cultural, arts or sports events, and the support provided by the Government for those events and the achievements of those events;
(3) how the Government determines whether an event should be regarded as "an international event with significant branding impact on Hong Kong"; whether the Government provided funding support for events of this category in the past six months; if so, of the details of the events which were funded (including the amount of public funding received) and, among such events, the number of those which were cultural, arts or sports events; if there were cultural, arts or sports events which did not obtain any funding support, of the reasons for that;
(4) whether it knows the details of the pilot scheme to be launched by the Hong Kong Tourism Board to promote tourism projects with local characteristics, including the implementation timetable and the eligibility criteria for funding support; whether it has assessed how the scheme may help promote the development of cultural, arts or sports events in Hong Kong; and
(5) of the measures that the authorities have put in place to strengthen their collaboration with the local cultural, arts and sports sectors, so as to motivate them to organize more events?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2809
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, to enhance our tourism appeals and enrich our visitors' experience in Hong Kong, the Government adopts a new strategy in 2017-2018 to support the staging of events and activities with different scale and nature in Hong Kong to tie in with our policy objective of product diversification and attracting high-yield overnight visitors.
My reply to the questions raised by Mr MA Fung-kwok is as follows:
(1) In 2016-2017, events supported by the Mega Events Fund ("MEF") included the Hong Kong Dragon Boat Carnival, the Hong Kong Tennis Open and the Hong Kong Open. In 2017-2018, the Government continues to support these events, which are identified by MEF, to be held in Hong Kong through allocating additional funding to the Hong Kong Tourism Board ("HKTB"). The Hong Kong Dragon Boat Carnival and Hong Kong Tennis Open were held again in June and October respectively this year; while this year's Hong Kong Open will be held again in end November.
Moreover, the Information Services Department cooperates with the organizers of these three events to enhance their publicity as well as to promote Hong Kong with a view to reinforcing Hong Kong's positioning as "Asia's World City". Such promotional efforts include placement of advertisements and lamppost buntings; and promotions of these events on Brand Hong Kong's website and social media.
(2) In assessing the tourism merits of the concerned event/activity, we would consider whether it is an international mega event with significant branding impact; whether it can attract additional high-spending overnight visitors to Hong Kong; and whether it can draw international media coverage and broadcast which would increase Hong Kong's exposure and raise Hong Kong's international profile, etc. A good example is the "FIA Formula E Hong Kong ePrix". According to the organizer, this mega event, which was first held in Hong Kong in October last year, attracted more than 20 000 spectators, with a quarter of them from overseas. The event also attracted high-spending overnight visitors from famous racing teams and motorsports lovers around the world to come to Hong 2810 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Kong. The event generated wide local and international media coverage; and burnished Hong Kong's image as an international metropolis through overseas live broadcast of the races.
This mega event will be staged again in Hong Kong in December this year. The Tourism Commission ("TC") has been coordinating the cooperation efforts among the organizer and the government bureaux/departments. TC has also encouraged collaboration between the organizer and the tourism trade to develop tourism products. In addition, we have enhanced the overseas marketing of the event through allocating additional resources to HKTB, with a view to attracting more visitors to Hong Kong to participate in this mega event. TC will continue its collaboration with relevant departments in exploring the introduction of more large-scale international events of different types with tourism merits to Hong Kong.
(3) Regarding events with significant branding impact on Hong Kong, they refer to events which can attract high-spending visitors, including overseas sports/arts lovers, etc., to Hong Kong; and have all along been able to attract worldwide broadcast and media coverage. Hosting such events in Hong Kong can raise Hong Kong's international profile. The Government supports the continued staging of events with significant branding impact in Hong Kong, including Art Basel, Hong Kong Sevens, Hong Kong Tennis Open and Hong Kong Open, through allocating funding to HKTB to assist in the promotion of these events. In 2017-2018, HKTB's total funding support to events with significant branding impact on Hong Kong is about $30 million. In addition, HKTB also assists in the promotion of arts and cultural events with international reputation, such as the Hong Kong Book Fair, the Ani-Com and Games Hong Kong, the Clockenflap Music and Arts Festival, etc.
(4) To help staging events of different types in our city, it is necessary to nurture more local cultural, sports and entertainment activities. The Pilot Scheme for Characteristic Local Tourism Events ("Pilot Scheme") to be implemented by HKTB targets at Hong Kong-registered non-profit-making organizations, such as sports organization, non-governmental organization and arts organization, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2811
etc. The Pilot Scheme aims to provide funding support to these organizations for marketing targeting overseas visitors for events related to arts, culture, festivals, dining or sports with Hong Kong's local characteristics and unique attributes. HKTB expects that the Pilot Scheme will be open for application in this fiscal year.
(5) The Government has all along been cooperating with local sports sector through different measures to facilitate them to stage more mega events. Among these measures, the "M" Mark System and Support Package was established by the Home Affairs Bureau in 2004. The number and scale of major sports events in Hong Kong have been increasing over the years. The number of "M" Mark events has increased from 4 in 2005 to 13 in 2017. Besides, there are various major sports events held in Hong Kong this year, including the Yao Foundation Charity Game (Basketball), the Hong Kong Masters 2017 (Snooker), and the Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18―Hong Kong Stopover which are programmes in celebration of the 20th Anniversary of the Establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. The Government will continue to enhance the existing funding mechanism with a view to providing better support. Moreover, the Home Affairs Bureau is taking forward the Kai Tak Sports Park project, which will provide multipurpose facilities of international standard to facilitate and attract more major events to be staged in Hong Kong.
On the cultural and arts fronts, the Home Affairs Bureau has all along been providing support to local arts and culture organizations as well as arts groups to hold different exhibitions, performances and other events for local residents and visitors. Every year, audiences from other places come to Hong Kong to attend a variety of arts programmes, such as Hong Kong Arts Festival. HKTB also promotes such programmes to visitors and has set up a dedicated page on its website introducing arts and entertainment programmes, such as the Le French May Arts Festival, Hong Kong International Film Festival, Arts in the Park Mardi Gras and Chinese Opera Festival, etc. The Government would continue to provide resources to Hong Kong Arts Festival and other arts groups in future in order to maintain the quality of their programmes so as to attract participation from locals and visitors.
2812 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Facilities and operation of public swimming pools
10. MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Chinese): President, regarding the facilities and operation of public swimming pools, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) as I have learnt that the four public swimming pools in Kwai Tsing District are inadequate to meet the demands of the residents in the district and, among them, only Tsing Yi Southwest Swimming Pool, which was commissioned in July this year, is provided with a heated pool, whether the authorities have considered carrying out renovation and improvement works (e.g. building new heated pools) at the other three public swimming pools in the district (including Kwai Shing Swimming Pool, the facilities of which are dilapidated); if so, of the details and timetables; if not, the reasons for that; and
(2) given that cases of temporary closure of public swimming pools due to insufficient lifeguards on duty have occurred from time to time in recent years, whether the authorities have devised long-term solutions (including reviewing the grade structure of lifeguards to recognize their professional status, improving their remuneration packages, increasing their promotion opportunities, etc.) to ensure that there will be sufficient lifeguards on duty in public swimming pools; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, the Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD") manages 44 public swimming pools, of which 26 provide heated swimming facilities to allow people to enjoy swimming throughout the year. My reply to the two parts of question is as follows:
(1) Currently, there are four public swimming pool complexes in Kwai Tsing District, including Kwai Shing Swimming Pool, North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool, Tsing Yi Swimming Pool and Tsing Yi Southwest Swimming Pool. According to the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines ("HKPSG"), there should be one swimming pool complex per 287 000 population. While Kwai Tsing District has a population of 510 900 at present, the provision of four public swimming pool complexes meets the requirement recommended in HKPSG.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2813
Tsing Yi Southwest Swimming Pool, which was opened in July this year, provides heated swimming facilities to residents in Kwai Tsing District. The other three public swimming pools in Kwai Tsing District are outdoor swimming pools. The Audit Commission pointed out in the Report No. 42 of the Director of Audit published in 2004 that the provision of outdoor heated pools is environmentally unfriendly because their heat dissipation is faster than that of indoor heated pools. This has resulted in higher electricity/fuel cost to heat up the water of outdoor pools. The Government has no plan to convert the outdoor swimming pools in Kwai Tsing District into heated swimming pools at present and will continue to listen to the views of different stakeholders.
(2) The safety of swimmers has always been LCSD's prime concern when considering the manpower requirements of lifeguards. LCSD reviews the manpower of lifeguards for pools and beaches annually, taking into account the actual operational needs, and deploys manpower under the established mechanism for the operational and service needs. As at 1 August 2017, there were 2 009 lifeguards, including 1 204 civil service lifeguards and 65 ex-council contract lifeguards employed on a long-term regular basis. The remaining 740 were non-civil service contract seasonal lifeguards employed on a seasonal basis to augment the manpower of lifeguards during the swimming season.
The total number of civil service lifeguards has increased by 35% from 893 in 2011 to 1 204 in 2017. There is no difficulty in the recruitment of civil service lifeguards and their resignation rate has all along been lower than the average resignation rate of the entire civil service, indicating that there is no retention difficulty. Given that there is no proven and persistent difficulty in recruiting and retaining civil service lifeguards and there have been no fundamental changes to the job nature, job complexity and level of responsibilities of civil service lifeguards, civil service lifeguards therefore do not meet the criteria for conducting grade structure review. Regarding opportunities in career development, there are posts of various grades in LCSD. Thirty-five lifeguards (i.e. Artisans (Beach/Swimming Pool)/Artisans (Lifeguard at Water Sports Centre)) were appointed as senior lifeguards (i.e. Senior 2814 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Artisans (Beach/Swimming Pool)) through in-service recruitment between 2015 and August 2017. In addition, 26 senior lifeguards or lifeguards were appointed as Amenities Assistant III through in-service appointment in the past five years.
Since seasonal lifeguards are employed on a short-term basis, their mobility is naturally higher than that of civil service lifeguards. In addition to stepping up publicity and recruitment efforts, LCSD has also adjusted upwards the remuneration in terms of salaries and gratuities for seasonal lifeguards as appropriate, streamlined recruitment procedures and organized more walk-in recruitments as well as recruitment talks with schools and organizations, etc. to attract more eligible applicants to apply for the post. LCSD will also continue to recruit eligible retired civil service lifeguards as seasonal lifeguards, and implement a number of measures, including the launch of different training programmes and trainee schemes integrating training, internship and recruitment so as to enhance the overall manpower supply of lifeguards.
Provision of free Wi-Fi services by the Government
11. MR PAUL TSE (in Chinese): President, as at February this year, the authorities have spent nearly $800 million to implement the "Government Wi-Fi service" and the "Wi-Fi Connected City" programmes, under which more than 19 000 free Wi-Fi hotspots have been provided. The average speed for Internet access of those hotspots is 4 Mbps and the Government has pledged that the Internet access speeds at some hotspots (e.g. libraries and museums) will be raised to 8 Mbps. It has been reported that the findings of an on-site survey, conducted by a media organization at a number of government Wi-Fi hotspots throughout Hong Kong, show that the Internet access speeds of the Wi-Fi service at a number of popular tourist spots were extremely low (e.g. the Internet access speed in the vicinity of the Tsim Sha Tsui Clock Tower was only 1/27 of the target speed). At some hotspots such as the Hong Kong Museum of History, the Hong Kong Space Museum and the airport, not only were the Internet access speeds far below 8 Mbps as pledged by the Government, but the service connection was also unstable and the service would be disconnected just several metres away from the hotspots. Moreover, there are other problems such as the uneven distribution of Wi-Fi hotspots and the extremely low usage rates at some Wi Fi hotspots (e.g. a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2815 daily average of only 1.6 users at the Wi-Fi hotspot at the Sai Ying Pun Dermatology and Chest Clinic). On the other hand, as the publicity undertaken by the authorities on the provision of free Wi-Fi hotspots by the Government and public organizations is unsatisfactory, some tourists who have visited Hong Kong for several times have indicated that they are unaware of the availability of free Wi-Fi service at the airport. In the Policy Address delivered last month, the Chief Executive proposed to develop Hong Kong into a smart city. However, some academics have criticized that the Government has been implementing free Wi-Fi service for many years, but such efforts are ineffective, resulting in the Wi-Fi network infrastructure of Hong Kong lagging far behind the level required of a smart city. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether the authorities have looked into the causes of the problems of extremely slow Internet access speeds and extremely low usage rates at the aforesaid Wi-Fi hotspots, and whether these problems are attributable to mismanagement on the part of government departments or the relevant public/private organizations; if they have, of the details; if not, whether they will look into the matter immediately;
(2) of the recurrent expenditure incurred by the Government on the provision of free Wi-Fi service in each of the past three years;
(3) of the number of government Wi-Fi hotspots in the two districts of Kwun Tong and Wong Tai Sin, as well as their distribution and usage rates;
(4) of the average monthly number of users at various government Wi-Fi hotspots in the past three years; whether it will explore ways to boost the usage rates at these hotspots (in particular those with low usage rates) in order not to waste public resources; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) whether it regularly conducts tests on the Internet access speeds of the various government Wi-Fi hotspots to see if the target speed has been reached; whether it has plans to raise the Internet access speeds of the Wi Fi hotspots across the board, and of the measures in place to address the problem of the Internet access speeds at some Wi-Fi hotspots being far below the target; and
2816 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(6) in view of some overseas visitors' ignorance of the availability of free Government Wi Fi service, of the authorities' new measures to promote free Government Wi-Fi service among the tourists, as well as the manpower and expenditure involved in the task?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Chinese): President, our reply to the six parts of the question is as follows:
(1) The connection speed and stability of Wi-Fi services are affected by various environmental factors such as the distance and obstacles between users' mobile devices and the hotspot, interference from other Wi-Fi services in the vicinity, as well as the number of concurrent users and the network traffic, etc.
The current average connection speed of Wi-Fi services at most government venues reaches 3 Mbps to 4 Mbps, which is adequate for supporting general Internet services, such as web browsing, using social media, using instant messaging, sending and receiving email and video watching, etc. Moreover, under the "Wi-Fi Connected City" programme, we are gradually providing free Wi-Fi service at government venues through the public-private collaboration model. The average connection speed for hotspots in service reaches 8 Mbps.
In the past year, the overall Wi-Fi usage at all government venues has increased from about 1.35 million users in October 2016 to about 1.42 million users in October 2017. We will monitor the usage at each venue from time to time, and will consider redeployment of Wi-Fi hotspots when necessary.
(2) The recurrent Internet access fee and maintenance cost for operating public Wi-Fi services by the Government in the past three years are as follows:
Year Expenditure ($ million) 2015-2016 5.0 2016-2017 6.1 2017-2018 (As at end October 2017) 3.8 Total 14.9
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2817
(3) Under the "Wi-Fi Connected City" programme, a number of "Wi-Fi.HK" hotspots have been set up in Kwun Tong and Wong Tai Sin districts, covering shopping malls and shops, youth service centres and study rooms, as well as government venues such as libraries, community halls, major parks and government offices, etc. As at end October 2017, the number of venues and hotspots in Kwun Tong and Wong Tai Sin districts are as follows:
Number of Venues Number of Hotspots Kwun Tong District 200 547 Wong Tai Sin District 124 340 Total 324 887
Regarding the usage rate, from January to October 2017, the monthly average usage of Wi-Fi hotspots at government venues in Kwun Tong and Wong Tai Sin districts is about 130 900 users. We do not have relevant figures for "Wi-Fi.HK" hotspots operated by service providers and public and private organizations in non-government venues.
(4) In the past three years, the monthly average usage of government venues equipped with Wi-Fi hotspots are as follows:
Year Monthly Average Usage 2015 1 840 2016 2 060 2017 (As at October 2017) 2 230
We do not have figures of the usage of "Wi-Fi.HK" hotspots operated by service providers and public and private organizations in non-government venues.
Currently, the Government has set up dedicated websites and mobile applications, setting out the location and opening period of Wi-Fi hotspots to facilitate the public to locate Wi-Fi hotspots in their vicinity through the search function. Furthermore, we have put up signages at venues equipped with hotspots to inform the public of the availability of Wi-Fi services.
2818 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(5) We regularly monitor the connection speed and usage of Wi-Fi service at government venues. If necessary, we will adjust the bandwidth and the number of hotspots at the venues in order to ensure the quality of Wi-Fi services.
With the continuous advancement of Wi-Fi technology, we will gradually adopt the latest Wi-Fi technology standard (IEEE 802.11ac) to reduce signal interference and enhance data transmission speed and stability. We will also require contractors to use high speed network (such as optical fibre network) wherever feasible to provide the public and visitors with more stable services.
(6) We have been promoting the "Wi-Fi.HK" services to the public and visitors through various channels, such as newspapers, magazines, social media, promotion events, etc. We have also been collaborating with the Hong Kong Tourism Board to promote the "Wi-Fi.HK" services to visitors through its website, social media and leaflets, etc.
The annual expenditure for promoting the "Wi-Fi.HK" is about $750 000 with manpower provided through internal deployment.
Protection of animal rights
12. MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that several incidents of animals (including tortoises, guinea pigs, rabbits and dogs) being abused en masse have occurred recently. In addition, quite a number of people have released animals casually, thus affecting the local ecological environment, and quite a number of the released animals died as they were unable to adapt to the environment. Regarding the protection of animal rights, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the number of reports on animal abuse received by the authorities and the respective numbers of persons prosecuted and convicted, in each year since January 2014; the maximum and minimum punishments imposed on those persons convicted;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2819
(2) as it has been mentioned in the Policy Agenda published recently that the authorities will study the existing legislation related to animal welfare, and explore introducing a concept of positive duty of care on animal keepers, of the details of such work (including the legislation to be covered and the work schedule);
(3) given that in reply to a question raised by a Member of this Council on the 18th of last month, the Government indicated that regarding the suggestion to bring cats and dogs into the scope of section 56 of the Road Traffic Ordinance (Cap. 374) (which stipulates that when an accident involving a vehicle has occurred on a road and caused damage to an animal, the driver of that vehicle must stop the vehicle and report the accident to the Police as soon as possible), "we are reviewing the matter with reference to overseas practices. We will, upon conclusion of the review, consider amending the relevant legislation", of the progress of the review and the specific legislative timetable;
(4) of the number of complaints about activities on release of animals received by the authorities each year since January 2014, broken down by the species of the animals involved and the location where the release was conducted; whether they have, in response to such complaints, taken animal rescue operations and law enforcement actions; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) as places such as Taiwan, Macao and Singapore have reportedly enacted legislation to regulate acts of release of animals, whether the authorities will consider afresh enacting legislation to regulate acts of release of animals in Hong Kong, and prohibit the release of animals at locations of high ecological value; if not, of the reasons for that;
(6) as quite a number of people participating in activities on release of animals do not understand the possible impacts of such activities on the ecological environment, whether the authorities will step up public education with a view to reducing that type of activities;
2820 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(7) whether it has conducted studies on the impacts of releasing animals of alien species on those animals of local species and on the ecological environment; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(8) whether it will make reference to the practices of foreign countries and consider afresh establishing an animal police team to step up protection of animal rights; if not, of the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, having consulted the Environment Bureau and the Security Bureau, my reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) Since 2014, the Hong Kong Police Force and the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department ("AFCD") have received the following number of reports or complaints on suspected cruelty to animals: 237 (2014); 236 (2015); 262 (2016) and 262 (the first three quarters of 2017). According to the results of investigations, most of the cases did not involve cruelty to animals. As at June this year, the number of cases involving cruelty to animals in which there was sufficient evidence for instituting prosecutions, and the number of convictions and the relevant penalties are tabulated as follows:
Number of Number of Penalties Year persons convicted Fine Imprisonment prosecuted defendants From 6 days to From $2,000 to 2014 29 24 1 year and $20,000 4 months From 14 days 2015 11 10 $2,000 to 2 months From 28 days 2016 15 11 $5,000 to 2 months 2017 From 10 days (January 10 10 Not applicable to 2 months to June)
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2821
(2) The Government attaches great importance to enhancing animal welfare. To further enhance the protection of animal welfare, we are studying the existing legislation related to animal welfare, such as the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Ordinance (Cap. 169), by making reference to international experience and trend and in the light of the actual situation in Hong Kong. Apart from preventing cruelty to animals, we will explore the introduction of a concept of positive duty of care on animal keepers, having regard to the opinions previously expressed by stakeholders.
(3) Regarding the suggestion to cover cats and dogs in section 56 of the Road Traffic Ordinance (Cap. 374), we expect to complete the review on the matter within 2018.
(4) From 2014 to October this year, AFCD has received a total of six complaints on suspected improper release of animals, of which four involving tortoises, whilst the other species concerned included freshwater shrimp and fish. Five cases were located in Tai Po and the location of the remaining case was not specified. After conducting site inspections upon receipt of the complaints, AFCD could not establish whether there were any individuals conducted animal release activities, but some tortoises were found on site and then brought to AFCD's animal management centre for observation. Having assessed their condition by a veterinary surgeon, most of the tortoises were subsequently handed over to animal welfare organizations for adoption by members of the public.
(5) and (6)
The Government has no plan to regulate animal release activities by legislative means at this stage. Under the current circumstances in Hong Kong, the Government believes that it is important to strengthen public education so as to raise the public's attention to animal release, and advise them to think carefully before participating in any such activities to avoid affecting the ecological environment. AFCD and three organizations concerned about animal release activities, namely the Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden, the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals ("SPCA") and the Hong Kong Society of Herpetology Foundation, 2822 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
have jointly designed a poster for public education on the potential impact of animal release activities. The posters have been distributed and displayed at various locations in the community (including country parks, geoparks, markets, the Bird Garden and ferry piers), and have been sent to over 50 religious organizations. The public is also reminded to consider taking other virtuous actions, such as tree-planting, voluntary services in animal welfare organizations or green groups, etc., in lieu of animal release. AFCD will continue to partner with the organizations concerned about animal release activities in the promotion work on this front.
(7) According to the Hong Kong Biodiversity Strategy and Action Plan 2016-2021, the Government will build an inventory of invasive alien species and conduct a preliminary risk assessment to better understand the impacts of invasive alien species on the local ecology. These actions are under preparation by AFCD. At the same time, the Government will encourage universities and non-governmental organizations to conduct research studies on invasive alien species through funding support. For example, in the year 2016-2017, the Environment and Conservation Fund provided funding to a university to conduct a study on the impacts by exotic herpetofauna on the local ecology.
(8) Currently, a total of 13 police districts under the Hong Kong Police Force have assigned dedicated investigation teams to handle cases of animal cruelty. Depending on manpower deployment, the nature and severity of cases and the crime trend of the district concerned, the commander of each police district may consider assigning cases related to animal cruelty to dedicated teams for investigation and analysis where necessary. All cases of animal cruelty are handled by criminal investigation teams, whose members have received specialized training and possess sufficient experience and investigation skills to follow up such cases. All cases handled by criminal investigation teams are supervised by a Chief Inspector of the Criminal Investigation Division to ensure consistency in investigation practices and attainment of professional standard required by the Police.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2823
In addition, to reinforce the investigation of cases of animal cruelty, the Police launched the Animal Watch Scheme in 2011 to enhance their close cooperation with AFCD, SPCA, the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department, the School of Veterinary Medicine of the City University of Hong Kong, veterinarian associations and other stakeholders on four aspects, namely education, publicity, intelligence collection and investigation, to combat animal cruelty.
Implementation of United Nations Security Council's sanctions against North Korea
13. MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Chinese): President, since 2006, the United Nations Security Council ("UNSC") has adopted a series of resolutions to impose sanctions against the Democratic People's Republic of Korea ("North Korea"). Pursuant to the instructions of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Government has made, under section 3(1) of the United Nations Sanctions Ordinance (Cap. 537), a relevant regulation and amendments thereto to implement the sanctions in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR"). On the other hand, it has been reported that for many years, a number of companies registered in Hong Kong have allegedly been helping the North Korean authorities circumvent the sanctions and earn foreign remittance. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) as UNSC adopted on 11 September this year Resolution 2375 (2017) to impose a new round of sanctions against North Korea, whether HKSAR Government has, for the purpose of implementing the sanctions under that resolution:
(i) liaised with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(ii) drawn up a specific work plan and an implementation timetable; if so, of the details; if not, when it will draw up the work plan;
2824 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(2) whether it has studied the impacts of HKSAR implementing the sanctions against North Korea on the trade relations between the two places and on Hong Kong's financial regulatory system and economy; if so, of the findings of the study; if not, whether it will conduct such a study expeditiously; and
(3) whether it has, since 2006, conducted any investigation and instituted any prosecution in respect of locally registered companies suspected of helping North Korea circumvent the sanctions; if so, of the details; if not, whether it will expeditiously conduct a comprehensive investigation into the activities of the companies concerned so as to uphold Hong Kong's reputation as an international financial centre?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the United Nations Security Council ("UNSC") has since 2006 adopted a number of resolutions to impose a series of sanctions against the Democratic People's Republic of Korea ("DPRK").
The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government vigilantly implements sanctions decided by UNSC, at the instructions of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China ("MFA"). The United Nations Sanctions (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) Regulation (Cap. 537AE) ("DPRK Regulation") sets out sanctions imposed by the UNSC against DPRK.
My reply to the three parts of the question is as follows:
(1) For Resolution 2375 adopted by UNSC on 11 September 2017, at the instruction of MFA, the Government is in the process of drafting amendments to DPRK Regulation to implement the relevant sanction measures. We are taking forward the legislative exercise as expediently as possible.
(2) On trade between Hong Kong and DPRK, the DPRK Regulation prohibits the supply, sale and transfer to and the procurement from DPRK prohibited items, for example arms or related materiel. The trade volume between Hong Kong and DPRK is very small. In 2016, DPRK ranked 158th among Hong Kong's trading partners in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2825
the world and the majority of the items traded between the two places were not subject to sanction. Therefore, the sanctions imposed by UNSC will not have material impact on Hong Kong's economy.
On Hong Kong's financial regulatory system, the DPRK Regulation prohibits the provision of financial services that could contribute to DPRK's nuclear or ballistic missile programme, and the making available or transfer of any funds, financial assets or economic resources that could contribute to the programme. Moreover, the DPRK Regulation also prohibits the making available of any funds, financial assets or economic resources to, or for the benefit of, individuals and entities designated by UNSC or its sanctions committees. Hong Kong has a robust financial regime. Regulators and financial institutions have been highly vigilant about sanctioned businesses, individuals and entities related to DPRK. Suspicious transactions will be reported to law enforcement agencies for follow-up. Therefore, we believe that the sanction measures will not have impact on Hong Kong's financial regulatory system.
(3) The Government has been staying highly vigilant about activities and suspected cases that may violate UNSC sanctions. We keep a close watch on reports of UNSC in relation to sanctions against DPRK in which Hong Kong individuals and registered companies are alleged to be involved. Our law enforcement agencies will seriously follow up on suspected violations.
Provision of an electronic identity for Hong Kong residents
14. MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Chinese): President, the Government put forward in the Policy Address released last month the idea to provide an electronic identity ("eID") for Hong Kong residents so that they could use a single digital identity and authentication to conduct government and commercial transactions online. However, notwithstanding that when members of the public applied for smart identity ("ID") cards in the past, they could choose to have their cards embedded with an e-Cert which they could use free of charge for the first year, such e-Certs had persistently low utilization rates. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
2826 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(1) of the applications and e-government services to which eID authentication will be applicable, and the transactions and records in respect of which digital signatures can be replaced by eID authentication, as envisaged by the Government; the plans in place to promote the adoption of eID authentication for the online services of public organizations and private enterprises (e.g. banks);
(2) whether the eID authentication platform will be developed by the Government itself or by outsourced service contractors; of the implementation timetable for the authentication service; whether it has set a target utilization rate of the service three years after its implementation; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) as the Government will, starting from next year, gradually replace the existing ID cards with the next generation smart ID cards for members of the public, whether it has studied how eID can be integrated into the functions of the next generation smart ID cards to provide members of the public with a more convenient usage experience;
(4) as the eID system will store and process important personal data of all Hong Kong people, of the encryption technologies to be adopted for eID authentication, and whether higher information security standards and more reliable authentication methods, e.g. one-time password authentication and two-level authentication, will be used; of the measures in place to ensure the long-term reliability of those technologies; whether it will conduct regular information security and privacy risk assessments on the eID system, and put in place measures to safeguard the information security of the system; and
(5) whether it will make reference to the experience of overseas countries (e.g. Australia) and conduct an extensive public consultation exercise on issues such as the security of eID authentication and the protection of personal data?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Chinese): President, the Chief Executive announced in the 2017 Policy Address the provision of an electronic identity ("eID") for all Hong Kong residents so that they can use a single digital identity and authentication to conduct government LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2827 and commercial transactions online. This will foster the development of a new economic service model that emphasizes on direct interface with residents and consumers and will provide a key digital infrastructure for smart city development. My reply to the five parts of the question is as follows:
(1) eID will be applicable to most e-Government services requiring authentication, including online and mobile applications. Apart from e-Government services, we shall actively promote the use of eID in services or products provided by public and private organizations, in order to enable residents to use a single digital identity for more online services. When designing the relevant system, we will provide flexibility for supporting services provided by public and private organizations in future. When the system is being built, we shall actively engage relevant government departments, as well as public and private organizations to promote the use of eID;
(2) We are conducting project planning and preparation, including detailed arrangement for system development. We plan to consult the Panel on Information Technology and Broadcasting in the first quarter of next year, after which we will seek funding approval from the Finance Committee and conduct tender exercise. We envisage that the new system will be launched by 2020. We will set target utilization rate in the system design stage;
(3) The main purpose of eID is to promote online transactions and electronic services. To tie in with the trend of technological development and the general public's usage of mobile devices, eID will be used in a virtual form on mobile applications or other Internet platforms, and will not use smart ID cards as carrier to eliminate the limitation of using card readers and computers;
(4) The security and encryption measures of the eID system will be based on the latest industry and international standards and guidelines. We shall conduct comprehensive privacy and security risk assessment during the design, development, and testing stages. After the launch of eID, we shall take active measures, including closely monitoring system operation, conducting regular comprehensive privacy and security risk assessments, formulating 2828 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
incident response mechanisms and related measures, and continuously monitoring network security vulnerabilities and threats to ensure system security; and
(5) In our study for this initiative, we have made reference to the experience of other countries that have widely adopted electronic identity. Application and use of eID are on a voluntary basis. At the launch of eID, we will provide the applicants and the public with comprehensive information on privacy protection and cyber security.
Training for and services of lifeguards of public swimming pools and beaches
15. DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Chinese): President, a government lifeguard union has relayed to me that the lifeguards employed by the Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD") have all along not received appropriate professional training, thus affecting their service quality and swimmers' safety. Furthermore, the wastage of lifeguards is serious and the management lacks an understanding of the work of lifeguards. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the following statistics in respect of the public swimming pools and beaches under LCSD's management: (i) number of swimmers who were injured but refused to be sent to hospital, (ii) number of swimmers who were seriously injured or got drowned, and (iii) number of ambulance calls made, in each of the past 10 years (with a tabulated breakdown by name of swimming pool and beach);
(2) as the union has relayed that the basic adult first aid training of around 30 hours currently provided by the Auxiliary Medical Service to the lifeguards is not adequate for enabling lifeguards to properly handle various practical situations, whether the Government will consider appointing a specialist consultant physician as the medical director for lifeguard training to help formulate a series of appropriate training programmes and practical guidelines for lifeguards; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2829
(3) given that some new recruits of lifeguards received practical training only after commencing duties, and that lifeguards have not been provided with proper diving rescue training, whether the Government will consider the union's suggestion that a lifeguard training school be established (i) to provide lifeguards with appropriate and systematic training programmes which have long-term goals (including training on the use of various types of rescue equipment) and, after the school has obtained the accreditation by the International Life Saving Federation, (ii) award lifeguards with accredited certificates; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) as the union has pointed out that LCSD's practice of recruiting seasonal lifeguards afresh each year has deprived lifeguards of job security, which has resulted in young people being unwilling to join the grade, the number of experienced lifeguards dwindling and recruitment difficulties, and that the number of swimmers going to swimming pools and beaches during winter time has increased in recent years due to the opening of new heated public swimming pools and the warm weather, whether the Government will recruit more lifeguards on permanent employment terms; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) given that the entry requirement on academic qualification for swimming pool and beach trainees is completion of Secondary Three, while that for lifeguards is completion of Primary Six, of LCSD's considerations in setting such entry requirements; whether LCSD will consider reviewing the entry requirement on academic qualification for lifeguards; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(6) as it is learnt that, at present, some public swimming pools and beaches are situated in locations where ambulances have difficulty in arriving at the spot within the target response time of 12 minutes, of LCSD's measures to address the issue; whether it will consider the union's suggestion that joint rescue services for such swimming pools and beaches be provided by lifeguards, the Government Flying Service, the Fire Services Department and the Marine Police; if so, of the details and the implementation timetable; if not, the reasons for that;
2830 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(7) whether the directorate grade officers who are now responsible for managing public swimming pools and beaches are required to have knowledge on and experience of life-saving and first aid; if not, whether it will consider setting such requirement so that the management will have a better understanding of the life-saving and first aid tasks performed at swimming pools and beaches; and
(8) whether the officers-in-charge of swimming pools and beaches are currently required to have received training on life-saving and first aid; if not, whether it has assessed if such officers are able to effectively coordinate the life-saving and first aid tasks involved at swimming pools and beaches; given that currently only the officers-in-charge are authorized to make ambulance calls, of LCSD's measures to prevent any delay in life-saving operations caused by the officer-in-charge not being at the scene?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, the Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD") has always attached great importance to training of lifeguards and allocates resources annually to provide civil service lifeguards with a wide array of training opportunities. My reply to the eight parts of question is as follows:
(1) Please see Annexes 1 and 2 for the respective numbers of rescue cases, drowning cases and accidents at public swimming pools and beaches of LCSD over the past 10 years.
(2) and (3)
LCSD has always attached great importance to staff training and has its own dedicated Training Section. At present, the Training Section plans and provides lifeguard training courses of different types to civil service lifeguards, including refresher courses on lifesaving and first aid skills, courses on skin diving rescue and scuba diving rescue skills, etc. These vocational training courses and the relevant accreditation are normally assessed and issued by authorized institutions, which are recognized both locally and internationally. LCSD has been working in cooperation with LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2831
relevant specialized departments and institutions, including the Department of Health, the Hospital Authority, the Auxiliary Medical Service and the Hong Kong Life Saving Society ("HKLSS"), etc., in designing and providing lifeguard training. Their professional expertise, skills, equipment, apparatus and recognized status, etc. are conducive to the provision of suitable training to the lifeguards. LCSD will work on the well-established and sound foundation to enhance collaboration and communication with the partners to ensure that the contents, design and standards of lifeguard training courses can keep abreast of time.
(4) The existing establishment of civil service lifeguards basically reflects the present position in terms of the opening hours and actual situation of public swimming pools and beaches of LCSD. The department reviews the manpower deployment annually and seeks additional resources under the mechanism to increase manpower if necessary. The total number of civil service lifeguards has increased by 35% from 893 in 2011 to 1 204 in 2017.
Apart from some public swimming pools and beaches which are open through the year, other facilities are mainly open in the swimming season every year. Hence, non-civil service contract seasonal lifeguards will be recruited according to operational and service needs in the swimming season. Since seasonal lifeguards are employed on a short-term basis, their mobility is higher than that of civil service lifeguards. In addition to stepping up publicity and recruitment efforts, LCSD has also adjusted upwards the remuneration in terms of salaries and gratuities for seasonal lifeguards as appropriate, streamlined recruitment procedures and organized more walk-in recruitments as well as recruitment talks with schools and organizations, etc. to attract more eligible applicants to apply for the post. LCSD will also continue to recruit eligible retired civil service lifeguards as seasonal lifeguards, and implement a number of measures, including the launch of different training programmes and trainee schemes integrating training, internship and recruitment so as to enhance the overall manpower supply of lifeguards.
2832 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(5) LCSD has launched the Beach/Swimming Pool Trainee Scheme ("the Scheme") integrating training and internship in order to encourage and inspire young people aged between 16 and 24 to better equip themselves, actively plan for future development and serve the community. Upon completion of the internship course, the young people can make a choice with regard to their own situations as to whether to become civil service lifeguards or seasonal lifeguards of LCSD or to seek other opportunities. Quite a number of trainees of the Scheme joined the life-saving and lifeguard profession. As the target participants of the Scheme are Hong Kong youths aged between 16 and 24 and they normally have at least completed junior secondary school education, such requirements are therefore stipulated in the entry requirements of the Scheme.
The major responsibility of LCSD lifeguards is to provide lifesaving and lifeguard services. Hence, candidates are required to possess valid Beach Lifeguard Award or Pool Lifeguard Award issued by HKLSS and meet other entry requirements to prove that they possess recognized capability to perform lifesaving and lifeguard duties. As regards academic attainment, lifeguards who have completed primary school education or equivalent can basically meet the daily communication and operational requirements. Hence, there are not sufficient justifications for raising the entry requirements on academic qualifications for lifeguards for the time being. Comprehensive induction training is provided to new recruits and various refresher courses to in-service lifeguards every winter to provide continuing education opportunities to help them develop their career.
(6) Whenever any victim in an accident or a drowning incident needs to be taken to hospital for emergency treatment, the duty officer-in-charge of the swimming pool/beach will immediately report to the 999 Control Centre. Officers will be deployed to the scene at once. Under normal circumstances, officers will arrive within 9 minutes for venues on the Hong Kong Island and Kowloon, and 15 minutes for venues in the New Territories. The Police will also coordinate with relevant departments for deploying the most appropriate emergency vehicles/ambulances or police vessels to the scene in the light of the circumstances of the incident, including its LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2833
location, nature, number of persons involved, and conditions of the victim, etc. In the meantime, LCSD lifeguards will provide rescue/emergency services to the victim as appropriate. For locations that are inaccessible by land or marine traffic, the Police will coordinate with the Government Flying Service to deploy a helicopter to the scene to help in the rescue effort.
(7) The management of LCSD attaches great importance to the operation of aquatic venues, and reviews and improves the overall situation and development from time to time. At present, the management teams of aquatic venues comprise officers with years of the relevant management experience being familiar with the operation of the venues and the work of frontline staff. LCSD considers that the existing mode of management has been operating effectively, it is therefore unnecessary to raise the requirements in respect of knowledge and experience in lifesaving and first aid skills of the management.
(8) Managers (Assistant Leisure Services Manager II) and officers-in-charge (Amenities Assistant of various ranks) of public swimming pools and beaches of LCSD currently are not required to receive lifesaving and first aid training. However, LCSD organizes training courses (e.g. management of public swimming pools and beaches) from time to time for venue managers and officers-in-charge. Guidelines on the management of swimming pools and beaches have been drawn up by LCSD for venue managers, officers-in-charge and management officers concerned to follow. In view of this, officers-in-charge and lifeguards should have adequate knowledge about the daily operation of the venues, workflow of rescue operation and duties of each job position.
Duty Senior Artisans (Beach/Swimming Pool) normally coordinate rescue operation at swimming pools and beaches and lead duty Artisans (Beach/Swimming Pool) in providing the necessary lifesaving services. In general, officers-in-charge of swimming pools/beaches will call the 999 Control Centre for an ambulance immediately in case of any accidents, rescue and drowning incidents. Other venue staff will also assist in calling the 999 Control Centre as soon as practicable.
2834 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Annex 1
Number of Special Incidents at Public Swimming Pools of LCSD from 2007 to 2016
2007 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 18 0 7 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 26 0 25 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 4 0 10 Island East Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 17 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 11 0 3 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 16 0 6 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 7 0 7 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 1 0 24 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 6 0 9 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 7 0 10 Morse Park Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 0 0 16 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 2 0 13 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Territories Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 2 0 9 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 1 0 1 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 0 0 8 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 15 0 13 Fanling Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Po Swimming Pool 4 0 8 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 0 0 15 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 19 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2835
2007 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 0 0 13 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 3 0 26 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Total 123 0 329
Notes:
Rescue cases refer to cases requiring rescue operation carried out by lifeguards.
The classification of drowning cases is based on the direct cause of death determined by the Forensic Pathologist.
Accident cases refer to non-swimming related injury cases.
2008 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 33 0 14 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 38 0 16 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 4 0 10 Island East Swimming Pool 0 0 18 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 22 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 15 0 11 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 8 0 9 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 3 1 11 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 0 0 13 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 14 0 14 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 24 0 9 Morse Park Swimming Pool 0 0 14 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 0 0 17 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 16 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 14 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Territories Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 0 0 13 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 1 0 5 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 1 0 6 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 15 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 2 0 10 2836 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2008 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 3 0 7 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 15 0 4 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 21 0 12 Fanling Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Po Swimming Pool 3 0 13 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 0 0 18 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 16 Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 0 0 17 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 1 1 22 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Total 186 2 413
2009 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 12 0 8 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 1 0 5 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 17 0 18 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 1 0 5 Island East Swimming Pool 0 0 10 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 7 0 6 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 3 0 2 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 2 0 24 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 2 0 9 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 16 0 5 Morse Park Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 0 0 10 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 5 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Territories Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 1 0 17 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 0 0 6 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2837
2009 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 1 0 1 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 2 0 8 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 4 0 1 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 3 0 3 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 15 0 5 Fanling Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 1 0 1 Tai Po Swimming Pool 2 0 13 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 1 0 4 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 2 0 6 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 0 1 12 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Total 93 1 248
2010 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 12 0 8 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 9 0 14 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 3 0 13 Island East Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 2 0 5 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 1 0 8 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 1 0 30 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 4 0 4 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 1 0 5 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 4 0 5 Morse Park Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 1 0 17 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 7 2838 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2010 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Territories Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 0 0 9 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 1 0 1 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 1 0 19 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 0 0 5 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 4 0 4 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 18 0 3 Fanling Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Po Swimming Pool 2 0 4 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 1 0 7 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 1 0 10 Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 1 0 25 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Total 67 0 274
2011 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 31 0 18 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 2 0 10 Sun Yat Sen Memorial Park Swimming Pool(1) 0 0 3 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 2 0 14 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 1 0 1 Island East Swimming Pool 1 0 2 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 15 Siu Sai Wan Swimming Pool(2) 0 0 1 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 11 0 8 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 13 0 1 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 2 0 8 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 1 0 35 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 2 0 10 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 3 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2839
2011 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 3 0 6 Morse Park Swimming Pool 1 0 13 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 2 0 9 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Territories Tung Chung Swimming Pool(3) 0 0 6 Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 2 0 12 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 0 0 10 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Ping Shan Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool(4) 0 0 0 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 2 0 22 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 0 0 7 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 3 0 9 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 11 0 9 Fanling Swimming Pool 1 0 4 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Tai Po Swimming Pool 1 0 9 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 2 0 20 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Total 94 0 338
Notes:
(1) Sun Yat Sen Memorial Park Swimming Pool was opened on 30 November 2011.
(2) Siu Sai Wan Swimming Pool was opened on 4 July 2011.
(3) Tung Chung Swimming Pool was opened on 1 April 2011.
(4) Ping Shan Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool was opened on 30 November 2011.
2012 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 21 0 5 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Sun Yat Sen Memorial Park Swimming Pool 2 0 8 2840 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2012 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 1 0 6 Island East Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 2 0 14 Siu Sai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 4 0 10 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 4 0 4 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 1 0 33 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 3 0 6 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 1 0 2 Morse Park Swimming Pool 1 0 11 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 1 0 10 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 5 0 3 Lam Tin Swimming Pool(5) 0 0 2 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Territories Tung Chung Swimming Pool 1 0 5 Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 0 0 8 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Tuen Mun North West Swimming Pool(6) 0 0 0 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 1 0 13 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Ping Shan Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 16 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 4 0 3 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 8 0 4 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 5 0 4 Fanling Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Tai Po Swimming Pool 1 0 14 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 2 1 11 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2841
2012 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 1 0 6 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 1 1 23 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Total 70 2 311
Notes:
(5) Lam Tin Swimming Pool was opened on 1 November 2012.
(6) Tuen Mun North West Swimming Pool was opened on 19 December 2012.
2013 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 19 0 11 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Sun Yat Sen Memorial Park Swimming Pool 1 0 13 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 1 0 11 Island East Swimming Pool 2 0 10 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 1 0 11 Siu Sai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 3 0 14 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 5 1 5 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 0 1 29 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 2 0 8 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Morse Park Swimming Pool 1 0 19 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 67 0 25 Lam Tin Swimming Pool 1 0 9 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Territories Tung Chung Swimming Pool 1 0 6 Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 1 0 7 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Tuen Mun North West Swimming Pool 0 0 22 2842 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2013 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Yuen Long Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Ping Shan Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 25 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 4 0 13 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 3 0 5 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 11 0 14 Fanling Swimming Pool 2 0 3 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Po Swimming Pool 1 0 13 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 1 0 6 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 2 0 12 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 0 1 14 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Total 129 3 415
2014 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 11 0 7 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Sun Yat Sen Memorial Park Swimming Pool 1 0 10 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 0 0 10 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 3 1 14 Island East Swimming Pool 2 0 4 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 2 0 13 Siu Sai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 2 0 22 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 6 0 5 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 3 1 12 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 3 0 24 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 1 0 8 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Morse Park Swimming Pool 0 0 10 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2843
2014 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 0 0 13 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 63 0 16 Lam Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 1 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Territories Tung Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 1 0 4 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Tuen Mun North West Swimming Pool 3 0 16 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 10 Ping Shan Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 14 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 2 0 8 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 6 0 7 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 9 0 11 Fanling Swimming Pool 1 0 1 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Po Swimming Pool 1 0 10 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 1 0 11 Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 1 0 17 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 2 0 15 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Total 124 2 362
2015 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 15 0 5 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 1 0 6 Sun Yat Sen Memorial Park Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 1 0 10 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Island East Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Siu Sai Wan Swimming Pool 1 0 8 2844 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2015 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 2 0 14 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 1 0 5 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 1 0 31 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 1 0 2 Morse Park Swimming Pool 1 0 8 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 2 0 22 Lam Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 5 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Territories Tung Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 1 0 2 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Tuen Mun NorthWest Swimming Pool 0 0 17 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 0 0 10 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 1 9 Ping Shan Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 1 0 16 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 4 0 5 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 4 0 5 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 10 0 18 Fanling Swimming Pool 3 0 6 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Tai Po Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 2 0 7 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 1 0 9 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Total 52 1 337
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2845
2016 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Hong Kong Pao Yue Kong Swimming Pool 11 0 17 Island Kennedy Town Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Sun Yat Sen Memorial Park Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Wan Chai Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Morrison Hill Swimming Pool 1 0 7 Victoria Park Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Island East Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Chai Wan Swimming Pool 1 0 6 Siu Sai Wan Swimming Pool 0 0 3 Kowloon Lai Chi Kok Park Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Lei Cheng Uk Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Sham Shui Po Park Swimming Pool 0 0 9 Kowloon Park Swimming Pool 3 0 18 Tai Kok Tsui Swimming Pool 0 0 6 Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pool 2 0 5 Ho Man Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Kowloon Tsai Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Morse Park Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Hammer Hill Road Swimming Pool 0 0 11 Jordan Valley Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Kwun Tong Swimming Pool 2 0 36 Lam Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 8 New Mui Wo Swimming Pool 0 0 0 Territories Tung Chung Swimming Pool 1 0 12 Tuen Mun Swimming Pool 1 0 6 The Jockey Club Yan Oi Tong Swimming Pool 0 0 1 Tuen Mun North West Swimming Pool 1 0 20 Yuen Long Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Ping Shan Tin Shui Wai Swimming Pool 0 0 8 Tsuen King Circuit Wu Chung Swimming Pool 0 0 4 Shing Mun Valley Swimming Pool 3 0 15 Kwai Shing Swimming Pool 9 0 6 North Kwai Chung Jockey Club Swimming Pool 2 1 2 Tsing Yi Swimming Pool 9 0 11 Fanling Swimming Pool 1 0 4 Sheung Shui Swimming Pool 0 0 2 Tai Po Swimming Pool 1 0 6 2846 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2016 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Swimming Pool Case Case Case Sha Tin Jockey Club Swimming Pool 0 0 7 Hin Tin Swimming Pool 0 0 12 Ma On Shan Swimming Pool 1 0 9 Tseung Kwan O Swimming Pool 3 0 11 Sai Kung Swimming Pool 0 0 5 Total 52 1 345
Annex 2
Number of Special Incidents at Public Beaches of LCSD from 2007 to 2016
2007 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 15 0 15 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 10 0 14 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 2 South Bay Beach 4 0 2 Stanley Main Beach 12 0 15 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 0 Chung Hom Kok Beach 0 0 2 St Stephen's Beach 1 0 4 Turtle Cove Beach 0 0 0 Shek O Beach 54 0 20 Big Wave Bay Beach 12 0 12 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 2 0 3 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 3 0 2 Kwun Yam Beach 1 0 0 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 8 0 0 Silver Mine Bay Beach 3 0 1 Pui O Beach 1 0 3 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 1 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 3 Tong Fuk Beach 0 0 1 Butterfly Beach 0 0 10 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2847
2007 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Castle Peak Beach 0 0 0 Kadoorie Beach 0 0 0 Cafeteria Old Beach 1 0 0 Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 1 Golden Beach 0 0 10 Trio Beach 0 0 5 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 1 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 5 Silverstrand Beach 0 0 6 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 1 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 0 1 7 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 1 0 1 Anglers' Beach# 0 0 0 Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach# 0 0 0 Casam Beach# 0 0 0 Lido Beach# 0 0 0 Ting Kau Beach# 0 0 0 Approach Beach# 0 0 0 Total 128 1 147
Notes:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
Rescue cases refer to cases requiring rescue operation carried out by lifeguards.
The classification of drowning cases is based on the direct cause of death determined by the Forensic Pathologist.
Accident cases refer to non-swimming related injury cases.
2008 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 30 0 7 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 4 0 9 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 0 2848 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2008 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case South Bay Beach 5 0 2 Stanley Main Beach 9 0 8 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 0 Chung Hom Kok Beach 0 0 4 St Stephen's Beach 2 0 5 Turtle Cove Beach 5 0 1 Shek O Beach 14 0 17 Big Wave Bay Beach 5 0 13 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 4 0 4 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 0 0 1 Kwun Yam Beach 0 0 0 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 1 0 0 Silver Mine Bay Beach 1 0 2 Pui O Beach 0 0 7 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 0 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 1 0 2 Tong Fuk Beach 5 0 1 Butterfly Beach 1 0 7 Castle Peak Beach 0 0 0 Kadoorie Beach 0 0 0 Cafeteria Old Beach 1 0 1 Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 3 Golden Beach 0 0 4 Trio Beach 1 0 0 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 0 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 5 Silverstrand Beach 2 0 1 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 0 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 3 1 14 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 1 0 3 Anglers' Beach# 0 0 0 Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach# 0 0 0 Casam Beach# 0 0 0 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2849
2008 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Lido Beach# 0 0 0 Ting Kau Beach# 0 0 0 Approach Beach# 0 0 0 Total 95 1 121
Note:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
2009 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 22 0 11 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 12 0 8 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 1 South Bay Beach 6 0 3 Stanley Main Beach 9 0 7 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 1 Chung Hom Kok Beach 0 0 0 St Stephen's Beach 2 0 1 Turtle Cove Beach 2 0 2 Shek O Beach 88 2 23 Big Wave Bay Beach 10 0 6 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 9 0 4 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 1 0 0 Kwun Yam Beach 0 0 0 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 6 0 0 Silver Mine Bay Beach 2 0 0 Pui O Beach 1 0 1 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 1 0 1 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 3 0 2 Tong Fuk Beach 3 0 2 Butterfly Beach 0 0 11 Castle Peak Beach 0 0 2 Kadoorie Beach 0 0 1 Cafeteria Old Beach 0 0 1 2850 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2009 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 2 Golden Beach 0 0 3 Trio Beach 0 0 3 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 0 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 4 Silverstrand Beach 0 0 4 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 0 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 3 2 18 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 0 0 4 Anglers' Beach# 0 0 0 Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach# 0 0 0 Casam Beach# 0 0 0 Lido Beach# 0 0 0 Ting Kau Beach# 0 0 0 Approach Beach# 0 0 0 Total 180 4 126
Note:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
2010 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 16 0 8 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 32 0 9 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 0 South Bay Beach 0 0 3 Stanley Main Beach 7 0 6 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 1 Chung Hom Kok Beach 0 0 1 St Stephen's Beach 1 0 0 Turtle Cove Beach 3 0 2 Shek O Beach 20 0 11 Big Wave Bay Beach 3 0 10 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2851
2010 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 7 0 0 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 0 0 0 Kwun Yam Beach 1 0 1 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 3 1 0 Silver Mine Bay Beach 2 0 0 Pui O Beach 0 0 1 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 0 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 5 0 1 Tong Fuk Beach 1 0 0 Butterfly Beach 1 0 3 Castle Peak Beach 0 0 0 Kadoorie Beach 1 0 0 Cafeteria Old Beach 1 1 8 Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 3 Golden Beach 0 0 11 Trio Beach 0 0 6 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 0 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 2 Silverstrand Beach 0 0 2 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 1 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 2 0 7 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 0 0 3 Anglers' Beach# 0 0 0 Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach# 0 0 0 Casam Beach# 0 0 0 Lido Beach# 0 0 0 Ting Kau Beach# 0 0 0 Approach Beach# 0 0 0 Total 106 2 100
Note:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
2852 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2011 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 12 1 15 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 2 0 6 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 0 South Bay Beach 0 0 2 Stanley Main Beach 14 0 7 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 0 Chung Hom Kok Beach 0 0 2 St Stephen's Beach 1 0 1 Turtle Cove Beach 3 0 5 Shek O Beach 75 0 18 Big Wave Bay Beach 2 0 9 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 2 0 0 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 1 0 0 Kwun Yam Beach 0 0 1 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 1 0 0 Silver Mine Bay Beach 1 0 1 Pui O Beach 3 0 2 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 1 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 1 0 0 Tong Fuk Beach 1 0 0 Butterfly Beach 0 0 6 Castle Peak Beach 0 0 1 Kadoorie Beach 0 0 2 Cafeteria Old Beach 2 0 8 Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 4 Golden Beach 1 0 20 Trio Beach 0 0 3 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 0 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 3 Silverstrand Beach 0 0 4 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 3 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 3 0 12 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 1 0 4 Anglers' Beach# 0 0 0 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2853
2011 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach(1) 0 0 0 Casam Beach(1) 0 0 0 Lido Beach(1) 2 0 0 Ting Kau Beach# 0 0 0 Approach Beach(1) 0 0 1 Total 128 1 141
Notes:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
(1) Lifeguard services were provided at Lido Beach, Casam Beach, Approach Beach and Hoi Mei Wan Beach starting from 15 June 2011.
2012 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 17 0 9 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 2 0 6 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 1 South Bay Beach 0 0 0 Stanley Main Beach 1 0 6 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 1 Chung Hom Kok Beach 1 0 2 St Stephen's Beach 1 0 1 Turtle Cove Beach 3 0 0 Shek O Beach 80 1 9 Big Wave Bay Beach 4 0 6 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 3 0 0 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 0 0 0 Kwun Yam Beach 1 0 0 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 0 0 0 Silver Mine Bay Beach 7 0 1 Pui O Beach 4 0 5 2854 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2012 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Upper Cheung Sha Beach 1 0 0 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 1 0 2 Tong Fuk Beach 0 0 1 Butterfly Beach 1 1 3 Castle Peak Beach 1 0 1 Kadoorie Beach 0 0 1 Cafeteria Old Beach 0 0 1 Cafeteria New Beach 1 0 3 Golden Beach 1 0 8 Trio Beach 0 0 1 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 1 Hap Mun Bay Beach 2 0 5 Silverstrand Beach 0 0 5 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 1 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 1 0 9 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 6 0 4 Anglers' Beach# 0 0 0 Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach 0 0 0 Casam Beach 0 0 0 Lido Beach 1 0 0 Ting Kau Beach# 0 0 0 Approach Beach 0 0 0 Total 140 2 93
Note:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
2013 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 7 0 10 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 1 0 9 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 1 South Bay Beach 1 0 3 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2855
2013 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Stanley Main Beach 1 0 6 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 0 Chung Hom Kok Beach 1 0 0 St Stephen's Beach 0 0 0 Turtle Cove Beach 5 0 0 Shek O Beach 95 0 7 Big Wave Bay Beach 16 0 10 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 17 0 9 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 1 0 0 Kwun Yam Beach 0 0 0 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 2 0 0 Silver Mine Bay Beach 6 0 0 Pui O Beach 1 0 0 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 3 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 11 0 1 Tong Fuk Beach 0 0 1 Butterfly Beach 3 0 6 Castle Peak Beach 1 0 2 Kadoorie Beach 1 0 0 Cafeteria Old Beach 1 0 4 Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 1 Golden Beach 0 0 7 Trio Beach 0 0 2 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 0 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 7 Silverstrand Beach 0 0 1 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 3 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 1 1 11 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 0 0 2 Anglers' Beach(2) 0 0 0 Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach 0 0 1 Casam Beach 0 0 0 2856 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2013 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Lido Beach 1 0 1 Ting Kau Beach# 0 0 0 Approach Beach 0 0 2 Total 173 1 110
Notes:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
(2) Lifeguard services were provided at Anglers' Beach starting from 20 September 2013.
2014 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 3 0 10 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 0 0 10 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 0 South Bay Beach 0 0 4 Stanley Main Beach 2 0 2 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 0 Chung Hom Kok Beach 0 0 0 St Stephen's Beach 0 0 0 Turtle Cove Beach 2 0 1 Shek O Beach 69 1 0 Big Wave Bay Beach 5 0 5 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 6 0 7 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 0 0 0 Kwun Yam Beach 0 0 1 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 0 0 1 Silver Mine Bay Beach 5 0 1 Pui O Beach 2 0 4 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 0 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 4 0 2 Tong Fuk Beach 3 0 0 Butterfly Beach 0 0 7 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2857
2014 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Castle Peak Beach 1 0 0 Kadoorie Beach 0 0 1 Cafeteria Old Beach 0 0 3 Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 3 Golden Beach 0 0 7 Trio Beach 0 0 1 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 1 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 6 Silverstrand Beach 1 0 1 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 4 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 3 0 8 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 0 0 5 Anglers' Beach 1 0 1 Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach 0 0 0 Casam Beach 0 0 0 Lido Beach 1 0 0 Ting Kau Beach(3) 0 0 0 Approach Beach 0 0 0 Total 108 1 96
Notes:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
(3) Lifeguard services were provided at Ting Kau Beach starting from 15 April 2014.
2015 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 2 1 2 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 1 1 8 Island Middle Bay Beach 1 0 0 South Bay Beach 0 0 3 Stanley Main Beach 2 0 3 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 1 Chung Hom Kok Beach 1 0 0 St Stephen's Beach 0 0 0 2858 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2015 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Turtle Cove Beach 1 0 0 Shek O Beach 61 2 0 Big Wave Bay Beach 2 0 20 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 3 0 4 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 0 0 1 Kwun Yam Beach 0 0 1 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 0 0 2 Silver Mine Bay Beach 1 0 2 Pui O Beach 1 0 8 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 0 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 2 Tong Fuk Beach 0 0 0 Butterfly Beach 2 1 9 Castle Peak Beach 0 0 3 Kadoorie Beach 0 0 1 Cafeteria Old Beach 2 0 3 Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 2 Golden Beach 0 0 10 Trio Beach 0 0 2 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 0 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 3 Silverstrand Beach 0 0 3 Clear Water Bay First Beach 0 0 0 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 0 0 12 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 2 0 3 Anglers' Beach 0 0 0 Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach 0 0 0 Casam Beach 0 0 0 Lido Beach 0 0 2 Ting Kau Beach 0 0 0 Approach Beach 0 0 0 Total 82 5 110
Note:
# Lifeguard services are not provided. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2859
2016 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Hong Deep Water Bay Beach 5 0 2 Kong Repulse Bay Beach 1 0 6 Island Middle Bay Beach 0 0 1 South Bay Beach 1 0 2 Stanley Main Beach 4 0 2 Hairpin Beach# 0 0 0 Chung Hom Kok Beach 0 0 1 St Stephen's Beach 0 1 0 Turtle Cove Beach 0 0 0 Shek O Beach 46 0 0 Big Wave Bay Beach 4 0 10 Rocky Bay Beach# 0 0 0 New Hung Shing Yeh Beach 4 0 3 Territories Lo So Shing Beach 0 0 0 Kwun Yam Beach 1 0 0 Cheung Chau Tung Wan Beach 0 0 2 Silver Mine Bay Beach(4) 0 0 2 Pui O Beach 0 0 3 Upper Cheung Sha Beach 0 0 0 Lower Cheung Sha Beach 3 0 0 Tong Fuk Beach 2 0 1 Butterfly Beach 0 2 5 Castle Peak Beach 0 0 3 Kadoorie Beach 0 0 1 Cafeteria Old Beach 1 0 0 Cafeteria New Beach 0 0 3 Golden Beach 1 0 10 Trio Beach 0 0 3 Kiu Tsui Beach 0 0 0 Hap Mun Bay Beach 0 0 3 Silverstrand Beach 0 0 1 Clear Water Bay First Beach 1 1 5 Clear Water Bay Second Beach 2 1 12 Ma Wan Tung Wan Beach 2 0 4 Anglers' Beach 1 0 0 2860 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2016 Rescue Drowning Accident District Name of Beach Case Case Case Gemini Beaches# 0 0 0 Hoi Mei Wan Beach 0 0 0 Casam Beach 0 0 0 Lido Beach 2 0 1 Ting Kau Beach 0 0 0 Approach Beach 0 0 1 Total 81 5 87
Notes:
# Lifeguard services are not provided.
(4) Silver Mine Bay Beach was closed from 21 November 2016 for works.
Economic activities between Hong Kong and member countries of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations
16. MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Chinese): President, the free trade agreement and the investment promotion and protection agreement signed earlier this month between Hong Kong and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations ("ASEAN") can promote the trades in goods and services and cross-border investments between Hong Kong and the ASEAN member states, thereby benefiting the economy of Hong Kong. Moreover, the agreements are conducive to attracting the enterprises in ASEAN member states to set up business operations in Hong Kong and enter the Mainland market, as well as facilitating Mainland enterprises to make use of Hong Kong as a springboard for developing their businesses in Southeast Asian countries. On the other hand, the Government established an Economic and Trade Office ("ETO") in Singapore in 1995 and another one in Jakarta in July this year, and is planning to establish an ETO in Thailand. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it knows the situation of cross-border investments between Hong Kong and various ASEAN member states in each of the past three years; if so, of the details, and set out in a table, by name of ASEAN member state, the numbers of enterprises, the investment amounts and the types of industries involved;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2861
(2) whether it knows the situation of personal cross-border employment and investments between Hong Kong and various ASEAN member states in each of the past three years; if so, of the details, and set out in a table, by name of ASEAN member state, the numbers of people (together with the percentages of such numbers in the relevant totals), the investment amounts and the types of industries involved;
(3) whether it knows the number of person-times of residents of Hong Kong and various ASEAN member states visiting each other (including sightseeing and business trips) in each of the past three years;
(4) of (i) the details of the work conducted (e.g. the numbers of contacts made with the local government officials and promotional activities held to promote Hong Kong as well as the contents of such activities), and (ii) the details (e.g. the contents of the projects and the amounts involved) of the projects on which agreements reached with the local governments, by the ETO in Singapore in the past three years and by the ETO in Jakarta since its establishment; and
(5) of the details of the work to set up an ETO in Thailand (including the proposed location and the timetable for setting up the ETO); the specific division of labour among the three ETOs in Singapore, Jakarta and Thailand?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, my reply to the five parts of the question is as follows:
(1) Based on the figures provided by the Census and Statistics Department ("C&SD"), Hong Kong's outward direct investment to the member states of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations ("ASEAN")(1) and inward direct investment from ASEAN member states from 2013 to 2015 are set out in Annex 1 (Tables 1 to 2). Due to the limited sample size of the relevant survey and the need to keep confidential the information provided by individual companies, C&SD is not able to provide breakdowns for individual ASEAN member states by type of industry.
(1) The 10 ASEAN member states include Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam. 2862 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
In addition, C&SD, in collaboration with Invest Hong Kong, conducts an annual survey, the response to which is voluntary in nature, on the number of overseas and Mainland companies with business operations in Hong Kong. The numbers of companies in Hong Kong (including regional headquarters, regional offices and local offices) with parent companies in ASEAN member states between 2015 and 2017 have been on the rise, details of which are set out in Annex 1 (Tables 3 to 5). A larger number of these companies were engaged in import/export trade, wholesale and retail, financing and banking, and professional, business and education services. As a wide range of industries are involved, C&SD is only able to provide the top three major types of industries.
(2) The Immigration Department ("ImmD") implements a series of measures to facilitate talent, professionals and entrepreneurs from outside Hong Kong to come and stay in Hong Kong. According to the information of ImmD, the number of applications for employment and investment approved under various admission schemes from nationals of ASEAN member states are set out in Annex 2.
(3) According to the information of the Hong Kong Tourism Board ("HKTB"), visitor arrivals from individual ASEAN member states and the share of overnight visitors coming to Hong Kong for vacation or business during 2014 to 2016 are set out in Annex 3.
Hong Kong residents departing Hong Kong are not obliged to inform the Government of their destination of travel. Therefore, we do not have statistics on Hong Kong residents visiting ASEAN member states for sightseeing or business.
(4) (i) The main roles of our overseas Hong Kong Economic and Trade Offices ("ETOs") (except the Geneva ETO whose dedicated role is to represent Hong Kong at the World Trade Organization) are to maintain close liaison with local government officials, business associations, and the media, etc., brief them on the latest developments and strengths of Hong Kong, and encourage local enterprises to conduct business and invest in Hong Kong. ETOs also organize various activities to raise Hong Kong's profile and promote LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2863
cultural exchange. In addition, the ETOs work closely with other Hong Kong overseas agencies, such as the Hong Kong Trade Development Council and HKTB to promote Hong Kong.
At present, the Government has two ETOs in ASEAN, namely the Singapore ETO, and the Jakarta ETO which has been set up since September 2016. The Jakarta ETO represents the Government on matters between Hong Kong and ASEAN as a whole, and enhances bilateral relations between Hong Kong and Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei Darussalam and the Philippines. The Singapore ETO is responsible for enhancing bilateral relations between Hong Kong and six countries, namely Singapore, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Thailand and Vietnam. The work of the two ETOs include:
- The two ETOs maintain close contact with government officials, the academia, chambers of commerce, the Hong Kong communities, the media, and think-tanks, etc. in countries under their purview to keep them abreast of Hong Kong's latest situation and economic developments. Over 50 workshops, exhibitions and seminars were organized to actively promote the advantages of Hong Kong, the "One Country, Two Systems" principle, and the business opportunities brought by the Belt and Road Initiative and the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Bay Area development, etc.;
- The two ETOs reach out to ASEAN enterprises proactively. In the past three years, they assisted a total of 43 companies in setting up businesses in Hong Kong;
- Since 2015, the Singapore ETO has arranged about 40 duty visits by the Chief Executive and other senior officials to the countries under its purview. Since its establishment, the Jakarta ETO has supported around 10 similar overseas visits by senior officials. These high-level official visits and exchanges helped strengthen bilateral ties and commercial relations;
2864 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
- From time to time, the two ETOs organize and sponsor different cultural and arts events in countries under their purview to promote cultural exchange. In 2017, the Singapore ETO organized a series of events to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, including sponsoring and supporting six Hong Kong arts groups to perform or organize exhibitions in Singapore. The Jakarta ETO has also hosted a number of cultural activities and receptions in countries under its purview; and
- The Singapore ETO has been actively implementing the "ASEAN Internship Scheme for Hong Kong Higher Education Students" since 2014, which provides opportunities for Hong Kong students to experience the work culture in the ASEAN region and broaden their horizon. So far, around 600 students have been offered internship places in eight ASEAN countries. The Jakarta and Singapore ETOs will continue to promote the scheme to make available more overseas internship opportunities for Hong Kong students.
(ii) From time to time, various government departments discuss the possibility of cooperation and signing of agreements with their partners in ASEAN. The Jakarta and Singapore ETOs will provide assistance and support as necessary. For example, ETOs supported the negotiation of the Hong Kong-ASEAN Free Trade Agreement ("HK-ASEAN FTA"), advocated and promoted it actively on various occasions. HK-ASEAN FTA was signed on 12 November 2017. ETOs will continue to support the implementation of FTA.
(5) ASEAN is Hong Kong's second largest trading partner with significant development potential. With the signing of FTA between ASEAN and Hong Kong, ASEAN will be a priority target for enhancing our external relations. Therefore, we plan to set up an ETO in Bangkok, Thailand, which will be our third ETO in ASEAN. The setting up of the new ETO involves a host of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2865
arrangements, and we have to conduct detailed discussions with the Thai Government. Once we have agreed with the Thai Government on the detailed arrangements, we will complete the relevant work, such as finding office accommodation, as soon as possible so as to commence operation of the new ETO. We will take into consideration the geographical location of the Bangkok ETO, commercial and trade exchanges between respective ASEAN member states and Hong Kong, and their economic and trade relations with Hong Kong, etc. in reviewing the geographical coverage of the Jakarta and Singapore ETOs, and work out the division of work among the three ETOs as appropriate.
Annex 1
Table 1 Position and flow of outward direct investment of Hong Kong (at market value) to ASEAN member states in 2013 to 2015
(HK$ billion) Position at end of year Outflow during the year# ASEAN member state 2013 2014 2015 2013 2014 2015 Singapore 80.2 84.7 71.4 -2.2 11.3 -8.2 Thailand 51.7 58.5 50.3 5.9 5.7 -1.0 Malaysia 47.6 49.7 40.6 6.1 3.3 4.5 The Philippines 23.1 30.8 31.5 1.6 4.4 2.6 Others@ 22.8 25.8 24.4 0.5 4.1 2.9 Total 225.4 249.5 218.2 12.0 28.7 0.9
Notes:
# Negative outflow does not necessarily relate to equity withdrawal. It may be the result of repayment of loans by non-resident affiliates.
@ Breakdowns on ASEAN member states other than Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines are not available due to the limited sample size of the relevant survey and the need to keep confidential the information provided by individual companies.
(1) Individual figures may not add up to the total due to rounding.
(2) ASEAN member states here refers to the immediate destination economy. It does not necessarily reflect the country/territory in which the funds are ultimately used.
2866 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Table 2 Position and flow of inward direct investment of Hong Kong (at market value) from ASEAN member states in 2013 to 2015
(HK$ billion) Position at end of year Inflow during the year# ASEAN member state 2013 2014 2015 2013 2014 2015 Singapore 225.9 318.5 343.1 14.0 59.0 23.3 Thailand *** 98.7 185.5 *** 3.1 48.7 Others@ 30.7 18.7 26.4 3.4 0.7 -0.9 Total 256.6 435.9 555.0 17.4 62.8 71.1
Notes:
# Negative inflow does not necessarily relate to equity withdrawal. It may be the result of repayment of loans owed to non-resident affiliates.
*** Statistics are not available due to the limited sample size of the relevant survey and the need to keep confidential the information provided by individual companies.
@ Breakdowns on ASEAN member states other than Singapore and Thailand are not available due to the limited sample size of the relevant survey and the need to keep confidential the information provided by individual companies.
(1) Individual figures may not add up to the total due to rounding.
(2) ASEAN member state here refers to the immediate source economy. It does not necessarily reflect the country/territory from which the funds are initially mobilized.
Annual survey of companies in Hong Kong representing parent companies located outside Hong Kong Number of companies in Hong Kong with parent companies in ASEAN member states (2015-2017)
Table 3 2015 (the survey enumerated a total of 7 904 companies)
Country of parent company Number of companies in Hong Kong# Malaysia 63 Philippines 37 Singapore 357 Other ASEAN member states 63 Total 518
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2867
Table 4 2016 (the survey enumerated a total of 7 986 companies)
Country of parent company Number of companies in Hong Kong# Malaysia 68 Philippines 40 Singapore 382 Other ASEAN member states 59 Total 547
Table 5 2017 (the survey enumerated a total of 8 225 companies)
Country of parent company Number of companies in Hong Kong# Malaysia 80 Philippines 43 Singapore 408 Other ASEAN member states 56 Total 586
Notes:
# Including regional headquarters ("RHQs"), regional offices ("ROs") and local offices ("LOs").
(1) Due to the small number of companies from some ASEAN member states and the need to keep confidential the information provided by individual companies, only the figures for some ASEAN member states can be provided.
(2) In the case of a joint-venture RHQ/RO/LO, there may be more than one country where its parent companies are located.
Annex 2
Number of applications for employment and investment approved under various admission schemes from nationals of ASEAN member states
General Employment Policy (Professionals)
Brunei The Cambodia Indonesia Laos Malaysia Myanmar Singapore Thailand Vietnam Total Darussalam Philippines 2014 3 1 209 0 638 80 1 039 762 233 88 3 053 2015 4 1 243 0 713 84 1 162 838 229 31 3 305 2016 5 40 323 0 820 54 1 137 924 303 20 3 626
2868 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Quality Migrant Admission Scheme*
Brunei The Cambodia Indonesia Laos Malaysia Myanmar Singapore Thailand Vietnam Total Darussalam Philippines 2014 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 3 2015 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 2016 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 3 1 0 8
Note:
* Figures denote quota allotted.
General Employment Policy (Investment as Entrepreneurs)
Brunei The Cambodia Indonesia Laos Malaysia Myanmar Singapore Thailand Vietnam Total Darussalam Philippines 2014 0 0 1 0 5 0 2 1 1 0 10 2015 0 0 2 0 4 0 1 2 2 0 11 2016 0 0 2 0 6 0 0 6 1 0 15
Capital Investment Entrant Scheme*
Brunei The Cambodia Indonesia Laos Malaysia Myanmar Singapore Thailand Vietnam Total Darussalam Philippines 2014 1 0 5 0 1 1 8 3 0 2 21 2015 0 0 2 0 3 0 2 0 1 1 9 2016 0 1 2 0 1 0 2 5 0 0 11
Note:
* The Capital Investment Entrant Scheme was suspended from 15 January 2015.
Annex 3
Visitor arrivals from ASEAN member states and the share of overnight arrivals coming to Hong Kong for vacation or business (2014-2016)
2014 2015 2016 Member Total Among overnight Total Among overnight Total Among overnight Overnight Overnight Overnight countries of visitor arrivals: visitor arrivals: visitor arrivals: arrivals arrivals arrivals ASEAN arrivals Vacation(1) Business(1) arrivals Vacation(1) Business(1) arrivals Vacation(1) Business(1) ('000) ('000) ('000) ('000) (Share) (Share) ('000) (Share) (Share) ('000) (Share) (Share) Indonesia 492 365 72% 15% 414 313 73% 15% 464 363 74% 14% Malaysia 590 437 70% 18% 545 406 70% 18% 536 404 67% 20% Philippines 635 521 77% 12% 704 584 81% 10% 791 676 83% 9% Singapore 738 567 65% 24% 675 519 63% 25% 674 526 61% 27% Thailand 485 395 70% 20% 529 411 73% 19% 595 455 74% 16% LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2869
2014 2015 2016 Member Total Among overnight Total Among overnight Total Among overnight Overnight Overnight Overnight countries of visitor arrivals: visitor arrivals: visitor arrivals: arrivals arrivals arrivals ASEAN arrivals Vacation(1) Business(1) arrivals Vacation(1) Business(1) arrivals Vacation(1) Business(1) ('000) ('000) ('000) ('000) (Share) (Share) ('000) (Share) (Share) ('000) (Share) (Share) Brunei 9 6 8 6 8 6 Darussalam Myanmar 11 10 11 10 14 12 Cambodia 15 12 Not available(2) 18 15 Not available(2) 20 16 Not available(2) Laos 2 2 2 2 3 2 Vietnam 55 51 59 55 59 57 Total 3 032 2 365 2 966 2 320 3 164 2 516
Notes:
(1) The relevant statistics is estimated based on the findings from the Departing Visitor Survey ("DVS") of the Hong Kong Tourism Board. Apart from vacation and business, other purposes of visit include visiting friends/relatives and en route etc.
(2) Visitors from some ASEAN member states took up a relatively small share of all survey samples of DVS, which are insufficient for deriving the estimated share of overnight arrivals to Hong Kong with the purposes of vacation and business.
Supply of and demand for parking spaces
17. MR JIMMY NG (in Chinese): President, as indicated in a paper submitted to this Council by the Government, during the period from 2006 to 2016, the total number of registered vehicles across the territory increased by 35% while the total number of parking spaces increased merely by 9.5%. On the other hand, the Government has closed down one after another several multistorey car parks in urban areas as well as lowered the standards of provision of parking spaces for public and private housing in recent years, thereby aggravating the shortage of parking spaces and causing inconvenience to motorists. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the projected numbers, in the coming five years, of (i) new parking spaces which will be provided by the Government and private developers and (ii) private car parking spaces among them (with a tabulated breakdown by District Council district);
(2) of the projected numbers, in the coming five years, of (i) public multistorey car parks which will be completed and commissioned, and parking spaces which will be provided therein, and (ii) government sites to be let by way of short-term tenancies for use as temporary car parks; the respective locations of such sites and the numbers of parking spaces to be provided therein;
2870 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(3) given the acute shortage of parking spaces, whether the Government will expeditiously revise the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines to raise the standards of provision of parking spaces stipulated therein; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) whether it will consider commencing a consultancy study on the demand for private car parking spaces so as to grasp the specific situation of the shortage of private car parking spaces; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) as the Buildings Department, for the purpose of encouraging developers to provide underground public parking spaces, revised the relevant guidelines in March this year to provide that underground public car parks in private development projects will be granted 100% gross floor area concessions subject to compliance with certain requirements, of the outcome of the measure so far (including the resultant number of additional private car parking spaces); and
(6) as I have learnt that only a few privately operated car parks are currently providing real-time parking information to the mobile application called "Hong Kong eRouting" developed by the Transport Department, whether the Government will provide incentives to encourage more operators of privately operated car park to do the same; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, statistics for the past 10 years show that the overall growth of vehicle fleet exceeds the supply of parking spaces. The Government is aware of the community's call for more parking spaces. As set out in the Chief Executive's 2017 Policy Address, the Government will implement a series of short- and medium- to long-term measures to increase parking spaces in various districts having regard to the local situation. These measures include studying the opening up of parking spaces and loading/unloading bays currently designated for own use of the development projects concerned and putting them up for night-time public parking of commercial vehicles; and providing public car parks in suitable new Government, Institution and Community facilities etc. My reply to the various parts of Mr Jimmy NG's question is as follows:
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2871
(1) and (2)
Land resources in Hong Kong are limited. Generally speaking, sites suitable for multi-storey car park uses also have potential for other development purposes. Integrating the planning of public parking spaces and development projects is the best means to optimize land use and more beneficial to the community as a whole. At present, the Government mainly provides parking spaces through private development projects in various districts under the Land Sale Programme. On the supply of new parking spaces in individual years, given factors such as planning schedule and works progress of individual development projects, it is difficult for the Transport Department ("TD") to provide specific forecasts on the number of new parking spaces in the coming five years.
TD will continue to discuss with relevant departments to proactively provide public car parks in suitable government development projects. For example, a total of more than 1 500 public parking spaces will be provided at the boundary crossing facilities to be commissioned (including the Liantang/Heung Yuen Wai Boundary Control Point) and at the West Kowloon Station of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link.
The Lands Department ("LandsD") is responsible for the management of developable Government land not yet leased or allocated for long-term development uses. To put land resources to gainful use, LandsD will, where practicable, put the government sites concerned to appropriate temporary use(s) by suitable means, including allocating the sites to government bureaux/departments for their use by way of Temporary Government Land Allocation, and leasing the land by way of short-term tenancies ("STTs") granted through open tenders for various commercial purposes (including fee-paying public car parks). Given the need to consider a range of factors, such as the implementation timetables of the long-term development plans, locations, topographical features and size of individual pieces of Government land, the Government is unable to provide a forecast of the list of government sites to be let by way of new STTs in the coming five years for use as temporary car parks. LandsD can only provide a monthly-updated rolling forecast of STTs 2872 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
planned to be granted through open tender in the coming six months for reference. Information on government sites planned to be released as STTs for fee-paying public car parks through open tender between November 2017 and April 2018 is set out at Annex.
(3) and (4)
The standards concerning parking spaces stipulated in the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines ("HKPSG") aim to provide guidance to individuals and organizations involving in development projects, as well as government departments, on the parking demands in development projects.
The Government has been paying close attention to the demand for and supply of parking spaces in Hong Kong, and would review the standards concerning parking space supply as and when necessary so as to meet the parking demand. Such reviews can be comprehensive reviews, or targeted reviews focusing on the demands in individual types of development projects or from individual types of vehicles. The utilization rate of various types of parking spaces and the social and economic factors affecting vehicle fleet growth etc. need to be taken into consideration. Since 1997, a number of updates have been made to the standards and guidelines in relation to parking spaces in Chapter 8 of HKPSG.
Commercial vehicles (in particular goods vehicles and coaches) serve the function of carrying passengers and goods and have practical needs for parking spaces in their daily operations. They have been playing an important role in the logistics industry, tourism industry as well as the overall economy. The Government's current policy in the provision of parking spaces is to accord priority to commercial vehicles. To address the shortage of parking spaces for commercial vehicles, the Government has proactively implemented various measures to provide more parking spaces as soon as practicable. A consultancy study on commercial vehicle parking will commence shortly with a view to formulating measures for meeting the demands from commercial vehicles. We will work with relevant bureaux and departments to explore and examine possible measures, including the feasibility of revising the standards for parking spaces and loading/unloading bays for commercial vehicles in HKPSG. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2873
Unlike commercial vehicles, private cars are used mostly for private purposes. In response to the community's demand for private car parking spaces, one of the measures put forward in the Chief Executive's 2017 Policy Address is to require developers to provide parking spaces at the higher end of the range under HKPSG. The Government will also have regard to the needs in individual districts and may require developers to provide additional parking spaces in suitable projects for public use. The specific number of parking spaces to be provided in those developments needs to be considered having regard to individual circumstances, including the local shortfall of parking spaces, impact on the development projects concerned and traffic impact on local road network etc. TD will continue to closely monitor the demand for and supply of parking spaces in various districts.
(5) The Buildings Department has revised its guidelines with a view to offering incentives for developers to provide underground public parking spaces. Those parking spaces are required under the statutory town plans or by TD to be open to the public and operated commercially. TD has not compiled statistics on the additional number of underground parking spaces provided as a result of the concession.
(6) TD has been liaising with the operators of commercial public car parks and STT car parks on Government land to encourage them to provide real-time information of parking vacancies of their car parks to the public through "Hong Kong eRouting" mobile application and the Government's public sector information portal "Data.Gov.HK". Such information will help motorists find parking spaces more easily and alleviate the traffic congestion caused by vehicles circulating on roads in search of available parking spaces.
TD has received positive feedbacks from some car park operators. Real-time parking information of over 60 car parks (including government and commercial public car parks) has been disseminated through "Hong Kong eRouting". Some data have also been uploaded to "Data.Gov.HK" and can be used for developing innovative products with added value and flexibility for mix-and-match. TD will continue to encourage other car park operators to provide real-time parking data.
2874 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Annex
Government sites planned to be released as Short-Term Tenancies for fee-paying public car parks through open tender between November 2017 and April 2018
Number of District Council district Locations temporary car parks Yuen Long 3 Tin Sam Road, Hung Shui Kiu Ma Tin Road, Yuen Long and Tin Yip Road, Tin Shui Wai North District 1 Choi Shun Street, Sheung Shui Kwai Tsing 3 Container Port Road South, Kwai Chung and Sai Tso Wan Road, Tsing Yi
Measures for attracting talents to Hong Kong for career development
18. MR CHAN CHUN-YING (in Chinese): President, to step up its efforts on the provision of talents housing and make Shenzhen a more attractive place for talents, the People's Government of the Shenzhen Municipality last year promulgated the "Measures on Improving the Talents Housing System", with a target of supplying not less than 300 000 units of talents housing during the 13th Five-Year Plan period (i.e. from 2016 to 2020). Such measures include that in respect of the additional sites supplied each year for residential developments, the site area for talents housing and government-subsidized housing should not be less than 60% of the total site area of such sites; and that no less than 10% of the total gross floor areas of the sites for commodity housing projects, which are transferred through bid invitation, auction or quotation, should be designated for building talents housing. Regarding the measures for attracting talents to Hong Kong for career development, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it will make reference to the aforesaid measures adopted by the Shenzhen municipal authorities and formulate residential land supply policies and housing measures to address the housing needs of talents, so as to attract talents from professions such as finance, science and technology to come to Hong Kong for career development; if so, of the specific measures; if not, the reasons for that;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2875
(2) as the Shenzhen municipal authorities have set up a dedicated organization for talents housing to take charge of talents housing matters across Shenzhen such as construction and capital-raising, investment and financing, as well as operation and management, whether the Government will consider establishing a dedicated organization to take charge of the comprehensive review and planning of the talents housing matters in Hong Kong; if not, of the reasons for that and which bureau is currently responsible for such work; and
(3) as cities adjacent to Hong Kong and around the world are all thirst for talents, of the specific policies that the Government will introduce in the coming five years to attract more talents to come to Hong Kong for career development and choose Hong Kong as the base for their career and for starting and expanding their businesses; whether it knows how such policies compare with the relevant policies adopted in Singapore, Beijing and Shenzhen?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, after consulting the relevant Policy Bureaux, I set out my consolidated reply to various parts of the question raised by Mr CHAN Chun-ying in the ensuing paragraphs.
On housing policy, according to the Long Term Housing Strategy ("LTHS") announced in December 2014, the Government adopts a supply-led strategy, which includes:
(1) with the assistance of a housing demand projection model, plan early for land supply for production of both public and private housing;
(2) update the projection of long-term housing demand and work out a rolling 10-year housing supply target on an annual basis;
(3) provide public rental housing ("PRH") units to serve as a "safety net" for the grass roots who cannot afford private rental housing;
(4) provide Home Ownership Scheme flats and other forms of subsidized sale flats to enable the lower to middle-income households meet their home ownership aspirations; and
2876 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(5) maintain the healthy and stable development of the private housing market through securing a stable supply of land and implementation of demand-side management measures as and when necessary.
The Chief Executive's 2017 Policy Address sets out a new direction of housing policy which comprises four elements:
(1) the Government has an indispensable role to play in providing adequate housing to our community;
(2) the Government will focus on home-ownership and strive to build a housing ladder, with a view to rekindling the hopes of families in different income brackets to become home-owners;
(3) focusing on supply and stepping up our efforts based on LTHS in increasing the supply of housing units; and
(4) with insufficient land and when new supply is not yet available, we will strive to optimize the existing housing resources to meet the housing needs of families that have long been on the waiting list for PRH and to help residents in poor living conditions.
Following the above strategy, the Government updates the long-term housing demand projection annually and presents a rolling 10-year housing supply target. When preparing the housing demand projection, we have taken into account objective data analysis of different demand components, including the net increase in the number of households derived by the Census and Statistics Department based on the latest domestic household projections. This demand projection has already covered overseas talents and professionals admitted to Hong Kong through various schemes.
According to the projection in December 2016, the housing supply target for the 10-year period from 2017-2018 to 2027-2028 is 460 000 units. The supply targets for public and private housing are 280 000 units and 180 000 units respectively. Assuming that all sites identified can be smoothly delivered on time for housing development, the Government has identified land for the construction of about 236 000 public housing units for the above 10-year period LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2877 which falls short of the 10-year supply target. In view of the continued demand for public housing, especially the increasing number of people waiting for PRH, the Government will continue to spare no efforts in increasing housing land supply through short-, medium- and long-term measures, as well as increasing and speeding up public housing production.
As regards private housing supply, the medium-term supply of private housing has been maintained at a relatively high level. Based on the Government's preliminary assessment of private residential developments known to have started or to be started on disposed sites, the private sector will, on average, produce about 20 300 private residential units annually in the next five years, representing an increase of about 70% over the yearly average (12 000 units) of the past five years. Steady land supply helps restore demand-supply balance and stabilize property price and rental level, which in turn benefit people from all walks of life who intend to buy or rent private residential flats, including incoming talents.
Given the current strong demand for housing, the Government should increase the overall land and housing supply as soon as possible and strive to rebuild the housing ladder, with priority given to addressing the housing needs of the lower to middle-income households. Therefore, we currently have no plan to set up a dedicated mechanism for handling matters relating to housing for talents admitted to Hong Kong.
Under the existing population policy, the Government strives to nurture local talents and at the same time continues to implement various talent admission schemes, which are reviewed from time to time, to attract and facilitate talents, professionals and entrepreneurs to come to Hong Kong so as to meet local demand for talents and develop a diverse talent pool. To further strengthen the work to attract talents to come and work in Hong Kong, the Government will draw up, with regard to overseas experience, a talent list so that we can attract high-quality talents in a more effective and focused manner. In addition, the Government will explore possible ways and means of enhancing talent admission schemes to meet the development needs of various industries with a view to generating new impetus for their growth.
2878 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Review of the Administrative Guidelines on Promotion of Racial Equality
19. MS ALICE MAK (in Chinese): President, quite a number of concern groups have relayed to me that the Administrative Guidelines on Promotion of Racial Equality ("the Guidelines") is ineffective in ensuring the fair provision of public services to the ethnic minorities ("EMs") by various government departments. Regarding the review of the Guidelines, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) when it will launch a comprehensive review of the Guidelines according to its plan, and whether it will consult this Council, concern groups and EMs when conducting such a review; if not, of the reasons for that;
(2) whether it will consider stipulating in the Guidelines standard guidelines on and procedure for various government departments to arrange the provision of interpretation services to EMs receiving public services; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) whether it will consider stipulating in the Guidelines the requirement that various government departments must regularly collect data on the use of their services by EMs, so as to accurately assess (i) EMs' demand for public services and (ii) the performance of the departments concerned in delivering such services; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(4) whether it will consider stipulating in the Guidelines the performance indicators for evaluating and monitoring the implementation of the Guidelines by various government departments; if not, of the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, the Government is committed to eliminating racial discrimination and promoting equal opportunities for ethnic minorities. The Race Discrimination Ordinance ("RDO") (Cap. 602), enacted in 2008, purports to protect people against discrimination, harassment and vilification on the ground of race. RDO provides that it is unlawful to discriminate in specified areas, including employment; education; provision of goods, facilities, services and premises; election and appointment matters of public bodies, etc.; arrangements LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2879 in relation to barristers and membership of clubs. It is also unlawful to racially harass another person (i.e. engaging in unwelcome conduct, in circumstances in which a reasonable person would have anticipated that the other person would be offended, humiliated or intimidated by that conduct) in these fields.
In 2010, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau issued the Administrative Guidelines on Promotion of Racial Equality ("the Guidelines") to provide general guidance to relevant government bureaux and departments ("B/Ds") and public authorities to promote racial equality and ensure equal access by ethnic minorities to public services in the key areas concerned, and to take this into account in the formulation, implementation and review of relevant policies and measures.
After consulting the relevant responsible departments, the consolidated reply to the question raised by Ms Alice MAK is as follows:
(1) Relevant B/Ds and public authorities are responsible for drawing up, within their respective policy and programme areas, checklists of measures that would assist in promoting racial equality and equal access to key public services to enhance the transparency of their work in accordance with the Guidelines. The relevant departments will draw up and issue updates on the contents of the checklists according to their respective programme areas where necessary. The checklists have been uploaded onto the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau website.
Since the promulgation of the Guidelines in 2010, the Government has kept the operation of the Guidelines under review. For instance, the scope of application of the Guidelines has extended from 14 to 23 B/Ds and public authorities.(1) To facilitate experience sharing, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau has assisted in sharing among relevant B/Ds and public authorities the measures that have been put in place. This year, we have
(1) The 23 B/Ds and public authorities are the Education Bureau, Social Welfare Department, Labour Department, Home Affairs Department, Employees Retraining Board, Vocational Training Council, Food and Health Bureau, Department of Health, Hospital Authority, Construction Industry Council, Office of the Government Chief Information Officer, Innovation and Technology Commission, Office of the Communications Authority, Housing Department, Hong Kong Observatory, Post Office, Legal Aid Department, Hong Kong Police Force, Correctional Services Department, Customs and Excise Department, Immigration Department, Fire Services Department and Registration and Electoral Office. 2880 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
followed up with various B/Ds and public authorities on the operation of the Guidelines again. A number of them have indicated that they have put in place more new measures to assist EMs. For example:
(i) since November 2016, the Hong Kong Police Force has expanded its joint project with the Centre for Harmony and Enhancement of Ethnic Minority Residents ("CHEER") entitled "TRANSLINK" to cover all 67 police report rooms and reporting centres. Under the project, instant telephone interpretation services in seven common non-ethnic Chinese languages, namely Urdu, Nepali, Punjabi, Hindi, Bahasa Indonesia, Thai and Tagalog, could be provided;
(ii) in February 2017, the Hospital Authority ("HA") completed a revamp of the dedicated web page for ethnic minorities. The web page contains information about HA and the accident and emergency service, as well as the addresses, telephone numbers and consultation hours of general outpatient clinics. In addition to the original five ethnic minority languages,(2) the content is also available in Thai, Bahasa Indonesia and Tagalog, to facilitate more ethnic minorities to better understand the information provided by HA;
(iii) since May 2017, the Labour Department has engaged two Employment Assistants proficient in ethnic minority languages at the Kowloon West Job Centre in Sham Shui Po and the Employment in One-stop in Tin Shui Wai on a pilot basis to provide employment services for ethnic minority job seekers in partnership with experienced Employment Officers;
(iv) the Social Welfare Department has provided Hotline Service <2343 2255> for callers of ethnic minority groups to have instant access to telephone interpretation services in seven common ethnic minority languages so as to facilitate their welfare services enquiries; and
(2) The essential information given on the HA website is available in five ethnic minority languages, including Hindi, Nepali, Punjabi (Indian), Punjabi (Pakistani) and Urdu. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2881
(v) the Construction Industry Council ("CIC") offers training courses and trade tests in English for ethnic minorities. In addition, CIC has also set up the Ethnic Minority Service Team to enhance its services and support to ethnic minorities, including promoting the CIC services through regular visits to related organizations and publicity activities, providing interpretation and translation services to candidates and trainees, etc.
Various B/Ds and public authorities will maintain liaison with concern groups and ethnic minorities in order to understand the special needs of ethnic minorities and explore ways to improve their services. The Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau and relevant government B/Ds also welcome views of the Legislative Council on the implementation of the Guidelines in order to further improve the provision of public services to ethnic minorities.
(2) Various B/Ds of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region have been providing services to meet the needs of ethnic minorities under their respective policy areas, with a view to facilitating ethnic minorities integrate into the society. B/Ds concerned will provide suitable assistance to the ethnic minority service users according to these users' practical needs, including interpretation services, thereby ensuring their equal access to public services.
Since the interpretation needs of ethnic minorities vary depending on what public services they are accessing to, B/Ds will consider the actual situation and adopt appropriate procedures to provide interpretation services to ethnic minorities in need.
The Home Affairs Department has commissioned the Hong Kong Christian Service to operate the CHEER Centre. Apart from a variety of basic services, the CHEER Centre also provides general interpretation and translation services. Interpretation services are mainly instant telephone interpretation and enquiry services. Depending on the availability of resources, on-site interpretation or simultaneous interpretation services can also be arranged. At present, there are 17 ethnic minorities working in the CHEER Centre responsible for providing a variety of services, including interpretation and translation services.
2882 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Interpretation and translation services in specialized areas do not fall within the service scope of CHEER Centre. B/Ds may procure appropriate interpretation and translation services to meet their respective service needs in accordance with the Stores and Procurement Regulations. For instance, interpretation services covering 18 ethnic minority languages are provided for in public hospitals and clinics under HA primarily through a service contractor, the HKSKH Lady MacLehose Centre ("the Centre"), part-time court interpreters and relevant consulates. At present, the Centre employs more than 100 interpreters who have all received training in medical-related knowledge as well as communication skills.
HA has also formulated guidelines for its staff on the procedures of arranging interpretation services. Staff of HA will arrange on-site or telephone interpretation services according to the needs of each case or at the request of patients. To ensure the quality of the interpretation service, HA also pays close attention to the users' comments and feedback. According to previous questionnaire surveys conducted by HA, service users are generally very satisfied with the interpretation services provided in hospitals and clinics.
The Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau will coordinate with various B/Ds and public authorities to see whether there is room for improvement in the provision of interpretation services to ethnic minorities and explore the feasibility of drawing up standard guidelines and procedures for interpretation services. In this respect, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau has provided an additional allocation of $3 million to the Ethnic Minorities Unit of the Equal Opportunities Commission in 2017-2018. The Ethnic Minorities Unit will embark on a series of initiatives for the purpose of promoting equal opportunities for ethnic minorities including the one on exploring the prospect of introducing accreditation for interpreters of ethnic minority languages.
(3) and (4)
The Guidelines is administrative in nature and is not legally binding. That said, the relevant public authorities are obliged to comply with the Guidelines. In accordance with the Guidelines, the relevant LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2883
public authorities should consider taking appropriate steps to assess the impact of their policies and measures on racial equality or provision of equal access to key public services. These steps may include collection of relevant information and statistics, consultation with relevant stakeholders and other appropriate measures. Moreover, to facilitate assessment by the public, the relevant public authorities should consider setting indicators and/or targets as appropriate.
B/Ds and public authorities, having regard to their own policy considerations and needs, may collect data and statistics on the races of stakeholders and conduct related studies. This year, apart from following up on the operation of the Guidelines, we have requested the relevant public authorities to collect feedback from stakeholders in order to further improve the provision of their services. At present, about half of the 23 B/Ds and public authorities covered by the Guidelines have already conducted surveys and collected relevant data. For example, HA conducts annual questionnaire surveys to garner the views of ethnic minority patients and its staff on the interpretation services provided by the service contractor.
The Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau will continue to request the relevant authorities to collect data and set indicators for the continuous improvement of services provision to ethnic minorities by modelling on HA's practice having regard to own actual operational circumstances.
Improvement of infrastructures in the rural areas
20. MR KENNETH LAU (in Chinese): President, the Government implemented the Rural Planning & Improvement Strategy Minor Works Programme in the 90s of the last century to facilitate the development of infrastructures in and the improvement of the living environment of villages in the New Territories. The Programme was replaced by the Rural Public Works Programme ("RPWP") in 2000. Quite a number of villagers have relayed to me that the works carried out under RPWP are comparatively small in scale and thus are of limited benefits. They have pointed out that in focusing on implementing various large scale infrastructure projects in the New Territories in recent years, 2884 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 the Government has neglected the improvement of infrastructures in the rural areas, rendering the living environment of villagers remains to be improved. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the total number of works projects with funding approved under RPWP since its inception and the total amount of funding involved;
(2) of the number of works projects with funding approved in the past five years, broken down by (i) the District Working Group concerned and (ii) works category; the locations of the works sites and the average amount of funding approved for each works project;
(3) given that the Chief Executive has indicated in the Policy Address recently delivered by her that a Countryside Conservation Office will be established to promote sustainable development of remote countryside and that $1 billion has been earmarked for implementing the relevant conservation efforts and revitalization works, whether the funding will be used to carry out improvement works projects on village infrastructures; if so, of the types of works projects to be included, as well as the relevant application as well as vetting and approval procedures;
(4) whether the Rural Planning & Improvement Strategy Minor Works Programme will be reinstated in order that works projects of a larger scale and greater benefits can be carried out in villages; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons and the considerations for that; and
(5) whether it has drawn up mid-term and long-term strategic plans for improving the rural environment?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, after consulting the Environment Bureau, our reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) The Rural Public Works ("RPW") Programme was launched by the Home Affairs Department ("HAD") in 1999. As at October 2017, more than 2 310 numbers of RPW projects, with approved project estimates totalling $2.39 billion, have been approved.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2885
(2) The number of projects and approved projects estimates as approved by the RPW Programme Steering Committee in the past five years, breakdown by district, is at Annex.
The project types of the approved RPW projects are as follows:
(i) Construction or improvement of footpath/footbridge;
(ii) Construction or improvement of van track/access road/footpath;
(iii) Construction or improvement of rainshelter/pavilion;
(iv) Beautification works;
(v) Provision or improvement of drainage facilities;
(vi) Paving works; and
(vii) Others (provision of notice boards, improvement of environmental hygiene conditions, grass cutting, etc.)
As a project may involve more than one type of works, HAD does not keep statistics nor the average amount of funding approved by project types.
(3) The Environment Bureau states that in the 2017 Policy Address, the Chief Executive announced that a Countryside Conservation Office ("the CCO") would be established under the Environmental Protection Department to coordinate conservation projects that promote sustainable development of remote countryside. A sum of $1 billion has been earmarked for CCO and other institutions such as non-governmental organizations ("NGOs") to carry out relevant minor improvement works and sustain their preservation and revitalization efforts.
For minor improvement works, CCO will consider the implementation of suitable minor improvement works for public facilities, such as providing or improving roads, street lightings, 2886 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
public toilets, sewage collection and treatment facilities, as well as waste recycling and treatment facilities. Existing architectural environment like representative village houses in the countryside will also be rehabilitated.
On the preservation and revitalization fronts, CCO will coordinate the efforts of the departments concerned, and provide an integrated yet dedicated mechanism with resources for the conservation and sustainable development of the countryside in the long run. The objectives are to support NGOs and villagers in organizing diversified and innovative conservation activities on an interactive and collaborative basis, and to develop ecotourism and other sustainable economic activities where appropriate.
The Environment Bureau will set up an advisory committee with members including non-government stakeholders to examine applications made by NGOs and monitor the implementation of approved projects and proposals. The advisory committee is expected to be established in the second half of 2018, and the funding concerned will then be open to application from NGOs.
(4) HAD has implemented the RPW Programme since 1999. The Programme aims to flexibly and promptly implement minor works projects without involving any land resumption, with a view to addressing the needs of the local residents for improving the infrastructure and living environment in rural areas. During the implementation of the Rural Planning and Improvement Strategy Minor Works Programme in the past, the time required for project implementation was usually substantially prolonged if land resumption was involved. If the RPW Programme were to carry out projects involving land resumption, the time required for project implementation would be substantially prolonged, and hence run contrary to the aim of the Programme.
The progress of the RPW Programme is good, with over 100 projects completed every year on average. These projects have substantially upgraded the infrastructure and improved the living environment in the rural areas. HAD has no plan to implement minor works programme involving land resumption element.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2887
For major works projects requiring land resumption, District Officers will refer the cases to the appropriate departments for follow-up actions under the Public Works Programme.
(5) The Environment Bureau states that CCO will coordinate conservation projects that promote sustainable development of remote countryside. Depending on factors such as the effectiveness of the initiative and stakeholders' views, the Government will consider extending the initiative progressively to other remote countryside areas with conservation value.
HAD will continue to implement the RPW Programme under the annual provision of the Capital Works Reserve Fund to carry out various types of minor works projects to improve the infrastructure and living environment of the rural areas in the nine districts in the New Territories.
Annex
Number and project estimates of RPW projects by districts in the past five years
2013-2014 2014-2015 2015-2016 2016-2017 2017-2018*
Districts (in $ million) $ (in million) $ (in million) $ (in million) $ (in million) $ (in of Approved Projects of Approved Projects of Approved Projects of Approved Projects of Approved Projects of Approved Approved Project Estimates Approved Project Estimates Approved Project Estimates Approved Project Estimates Approved Project Estimates Number Number Number Number Number
Islands 18 18.500 13 12.550 9 9.530 13 18.600 11 19.200 Kwai 7 7.920 10 8.680 5 7.200 6 7.000 6 8.000 Tsing North 11 15.500 15 17.700 12 18.550 14 21.962 14 20.883 Sai 6 9.400 10 17.377 7 13.400 9 15.350 6 15.800 Kung Sha Tin 7 6.200 8 6.000 11 8.200 14 8.350 18 9.200 2888 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
2013-2014 2014-2015 2015-2016 2016-2017 2017-2018*
Districts (in $ million) $ (in million) $ (in million) $ (in million) $ (in million) $ (in of Approved Projects of Approved of Approved Projects of Approved Projects of Approved Projects of Approved Projects of Approved Approved Project Estimates Approved Project Estimates Approved Project Estimates Approved Project Estimates Approved Project Estimates Number Number Number Number Number
Tuen 5 11.200 7 12.500 8 13.850 8 13.500 8 15.700 Mun Tai Po 16 18.750 11 20.100 14 17.900 14 18.500 12 19.900 Tsuen 10 7.400 8 11.250 6 6.000 6 7.100 6 5.500 Wan Yuen 18 19.000 18 20.400 25 27.000 22 27.000 23 31.000 Long Total 98 113.870 100 126.557 97 121.630 106 137.362 104 145.183 Total in 5 Financial Years 505 644.602
Note:
* figures as at October 2017
Resumption and maintenance of private streets
21. MR LAU KWOK-FAN (in Chinese): President, in 1986, the Government launched a programme for the resumption and maintenance of private streets under the Roads (Works, Use and Compensation) Ordinance (Cap. 370) with a view to managing and maintaining those streets more effectively ("the Resumption Programme"). Between 1986 and 1995, 166 private streets in the urban areas were selected and included in the Resumption Programme. It was reported in September this year that the authorities had resumed only 70 streets and deleted 85 streets from the Resumption Programme, and some of the deleted streets currently still have serious environmental hygiene problems. Moreover, there are serious problems such as flooding, road blockage and poor environmental hygiene in some streets that have never been selected and included in the Programme. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2889
(1) of the current number of private streets open for public use across the territory and, among them, the respective numbers of managed and unmanaged streets;
(2) of the respective numbers of complaints received by various government departments in the past five years concerning private streets, together with a breakdown by the problem (e.g. environmental hygiene, traffic and damaged road surface) involved in the complaints;
(3) of the latest progress of the Resumption Programme, and set out the numbers of streets (i) resumed and (ii) deleted from the Programme since 1986 (in groups each covering five years) in the table below;
2016 1986 1991 1996 2001 2006 2011 to to to to to to to 2017 1990 1995 2000 2005 2010 2015 (Up to October) (i) (ii)
(4) whether the Resumption Programme has now been completed; if so, whether it has conducted a review and drawn a conclusion, and whether it will publish a report; if the Programme is not yet completed, of the expected completion time;
(5) of the current number of private streets the resumption procedure for which has not yet been completed due to problems such as complicated ownership and existence of unauthorized building works; whether it has studied how the problems concerned can be addressed expediently in order to complete the resumption procedure; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(6) whether it now regularly inspects the conditions (including the hygiene conditions) of the streets that have been deleted from the Resumption Programme, and explores improvement measures; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
2890 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
(7) regarding the private streets which have not been included in the Resumption Programme and which have serious environmental hygiene problems, of the measures the Government has in place to assist the owners concerned in improving the management of such streets, including whether it will consider launching a new round of the Resumption Programme; and
(8) whether it will introduce measures (e.g. encourage the owners, through the provision of incentives, to voluntarily return the streets to the Government, and strengthening communication with the owners' corporations concerned) to facilitate improvement to the conditions of all the private streets across the territory that are open for public use; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, in 1986, the Government launched a Private Street Resumption Programme ("the Programme") to coordinate departmental efforts in resuming private streets which were under multiple ownerships and with serious environmental problems caused by the lack of management and maintenance. The aim of the Programme is to improve the conditions of private streets with environmental hygiene problems.
This Programme has a policy principle, i.e. resumption of private streets should not involve compensation payments by the Government. Compensation claims often involve long and protracted legal processes. If such claims are successful, the Government would incur additional expenditure and time on top of the costs for improving the conditions of the streets.
Upon the launch of this Programme, a Private Street Resumption Committee ("the Committee"), chaired by representative of Home Affairs Department, was set up to coordinate the efforts of nine government departments in resuming the private streets. These nine departments are the Transport and Housing Bureau, the Transport Department ("TD"), the Highways Department ("HyD"), the Buildings Department ("BD"), the Lands Department ("LandsD"), the Housing Department, the Fire Services Department, the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department ("FEHD"), and the Drainage Services Department. The Government resumed and improved the private streets included in the Programme under the provisions of the Roads (Works, Use and Compensation) Ordinance (Cap. 370).
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2891
Based on the information provided by District Offices ("DOs") from 1986 to 1995, the Committee has considered 166 private streets under the Programme. Of the 166 private streets, 70 of them had been resumed and repaired, and 79 of them had been deleted from the Programme (the situation of the remaining 17 private streets is provided in parts (4) and (5) of the answer below). The deletion of the 79 streets was based on various considerations, including the street conditions having improved, or resumption of these streets would involve compensation claims issue. These streets have been deleted from the Programme because resuming them would no longer meet the policy principle of the Programme.
After consulting FEHD, HyD, BD, TD, LandsD and the Hong Kong Police Force ("HKPF"), our reply to the eight parts of the question raised by Mr LAU Kwok-fan is as follows:
(1) LandsD does not possess information of private streets in the territory nor private streets which are opened to public use.
(2) Complaint figures about private streets received by relevant departments are listed below:
Number of complaints received regarding private streets 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 HyD 3 5 5 8 13 TD A total of 40 public enquiries on traffic management of private streets were handled in the past five years. BD LandsD No statistics were compiled on the number of complaints FEHD received about private streets. HKPF
If the location in question was confirmed to be related to repairs in private streets, the relevant departments would inform the land owners to do the repair works.
2892 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
FEHD replied that the management, cleansing and repair of common areas of private premises (including private streets and private rear lanes) are the responsibilities of the owners concerned. Given the complex ownership of private streets and rear lanes, and the prerequisite of protecting public health, if the hygiene conditions remain poor and if resources permit, FEHD will address the requests of the District Councils and consider providing routine street-cleansing service for private streets and private rear lanes with environmental hygiene problems. At present, FEHD provides routine street cleansing service for 55 private streets in the territory as well as street sweeping service for private rear lanes with the aforesaid conditions and requiring Government assistance.
In short, if owners of private streets could not organize themselves to carry out urgent environmental improvement works, the relevant departments will, depending on the situation, conduct urgent remedial works to ensure public safety.
(3) The latest progress of the Programme regarding the numbers of streets (i) resumed and (ii) deleted from the Programme since 1986 (in groups each covering five years) is listed in the table below:
2016 to 1986 1991 1996 2001 2006 2011 2017 to to to to to to Total (Up to 1990 1995 2000 2005 2010 2015 October) (i) 27 39 4 - - - - 70 (ii) - 41 36 2 - - - 79
(4) and (5)
At present, 17 streets included in the Programme are pending resumption or deletion from the Programme. According to BD, 6 of the streets have been assessed and it is confirmed that resumption of these 6 streets may result in reduction of site area upon redevelopment and hence involve compensation claims issue. Resumption need for another 2 streets no longer exists as the streets LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2893
have been redeveloped. For the remaining 9 streets, they are pending the assessment results of possible compensation claims and other matters by BD.
(6) to (8)
Private streets are private properties. The management and maintenance responsibilities of private streets rest with the land owners. Under normal circumstances, the Government will not be involved in the management of private properties, including private streets. The Government will only provide assistance to property owners under exceptional circumstances and where significant public interest is involved.
To effectively tackle the environmental hygiene problems of the private streets, DOs have since 2003 been playing a coordinating role in liaising with residents and relevant departments and assisting in the implementation of environmental hygiene improvement projects. If owners of private streets cannot organize themselves to carry out urgent environmental improvement works such as the repair of blocked drains and sewers, the Government will take up the improvement works on their behalf. Government expenses are recovered from the concerned owners/occupiers after the completion of works.
In sum, as in the cases of common areas of multi-storeyed buildings, the land owners are responsible for the cleansing, maintenance and management of private streets. The Government has no intention to carry out another phase of private street resumption.
Combating crimes of blackmailing by hackers
22. MR WONG TING-KWONG (in Chinese): President, a network security company has pointed out that the crimes of hackers breaking into computer systems, encrypting the data therein and then blackmailing the victims ("hacker blackmailing") have become increasingly rampant. The number of relevant requests for assistance received by the company in the last two years increased 2894 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 continuously: an increase of 50% to 60% in the Asian region and even a 100% surge in Hong Kong; and the victims were mainly small and medium enterprises and personal computer users. In May this year, the Finance Committee of this Council gave funding approval for the creation of a post of Chief Superintendent of Police to lead the Cyber Security and Technology Crime Bureau ("CSTCB") of the Police. Regarding combating crimes of hacker blackmailing, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the number of reports received by the Police in the past five years about enterprises being blackmailed by hackers and the total amount of money involved, with a tabulated breakdown by type of crime and type of enterprise;
(2) of the progress of CSTCB's work in investigating the crimes of hacker blackmailing; whether it has assessed if CSTCB can timely increase its manpower and upgrade the level of its technology and facilities to counter the increasingly sophisticated criminal techniques of hackers; if so, of the assessment outcome; of the number of such kind of cases detected by CSTCB since its establishment in 2015;
(3) whether new measures are in place to combat crimes of hackers breaking into the computer systems of enterprises; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(4) whether it has gained an understanding of how Hong Kong compares with overseas in terms of network security awareness among enterprises; if so, of the details; whether the authorities have put in place new measures to enhance network security awareness among enterprises and encourage them to strengthen network security; if so, of the details; in addition to the provision of technology vouchers, whether the authorities will strengthen the provision of relevant assistance to small and medium enterprises in order to guard against hacker blackmailing; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2895
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President,
(1) The figures on blackmail-related technology crimes maintained by the Police in the past five years are at Annex.
(2) The Cyber Security and Technology Crime Bureau ("CSTCB") of the Hong Kong Police Force ("HKPF") has been striving to enhance and expand its capability in different areas, including detecting syndicated and highly sophisticated technology crimes; conducting timely cyber threat audits and analyses; as well as enhancing response capability against major cyber security incidents or massive cyber attacks and strengthening relevant thematic researches, etc.
With the rapid development of information technology, cyber security threats and technology crimes are becoming increasingly complicated. As such, whether in enhancing cyber security or combating technology crimes, governments and relevant law enforcement agencies around the world have to foster close liaison and cooperation with the law enforcement agencies and industry stakeholders in different regions, and enhance collaboration and exchange in respect of relevant knowledge, technology, experience and intelligence, so as to grasp timely the latest global cyber threat trends and enhance facilities and staff technical capability as necessary. CSTCB will continue to strengthen the partnership with local and overseas law enforcement agencies and industry stakeholders, as well as exchange intelligence to facilitate crime investigations.
The Police do not maintain figures on the detection rate of crimes of hacker blackmailing.(1)
(3) and (4)
Since its establishment, CSTCB has been actively collaborating with various government departments and industry stakeholders to strengthen the reliability of the information system networks of enterprises, as well as to enhance Hong Kong's capability to protect
(1) The Police maintain the figures on the overall blackmailing cases, but not that on hacker blackmailing. 2896 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
relevant information system networks and guard against cyber attacks. CSTCB also rolls out various types of projects from time to time to boost enterprises' awareness of cyber security. Examples include:
(i) Since 2014, CSTCB has conducted various types of cyber security drills with industry stakeholders to access, through various simulated incident scenarios, participants' capabilities of incident analysis, the established incident response procedures and the operation of their communication protocols. The simulated cyber attacks incidents cover the most common scenarios with far-reaching impact, such as distributed denial-of-service attacks, web defacement, intrusion of network and information systems, ransomware, malware and sensitive data leakage.
(ii) Since April 2016, CSTCB has hosted cyber security seminars on a quarterly basis to strengthen the overall defensive capabilities of Hong Kong enterprises in handling cyber security incidents. The seminars cover topics on all types of emerging cyber threats and invite cyber security experts to share on relevant counter-measures. Each of these seminars was attended by representatives from various sectors, including banking and financial services, transport and shipping services, communication services, public services and government services.
(iii) In May 2016, HKPF, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority and the Hong Kong Applied Science and Technology Research Institute co-organized the Cyber Security Summit 2016, which was a three-day event attended by supervisors of financial institutions, regulatory bodies and technology solution providers among its guests. The summit discussed the latest local and global trends of cyber attacks, and enhanced the awareness and preparedness of Hong Kong enterprises in response to cyber security incidents and hacker attacks.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2897
(iv) In January 2017, the first Cyber Security Professionals Awards Scheme, jointly organized by HKPF, the Government Computer Emergency Response Team Hong Kong under the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer and the Hong Kong Computer Emergency Response Team Coordination Centre under the Hong Kong Productivity Council, was launched. The Scheme aims to recognize individuals in the cyber security field for their excellence, innovation and leadership displayed in different professional areas, including creating and implementing innovative cyber security policy; managing the risk of cyber threats; identifying and responding to cyber incidents; and communicating cyber security value to other members of the organizations. The second Awards Scheme will be held in February 2018.
The Government will, via the Hong Kong Computer Emergency Response Team Coordination Centre, continue to provide local enterprises (including small and medium enterprises) and Internet users with services relating to information security incident responses, security threat alerts, preventive guidelines and educational activities, so as to enhance their cyber security awareness and protect the network safety.
Annex
Figures on blackmail-related technology crimes maintained by HKPF in the past five years
2017 Nature 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 (As at September) Naked Chat Not available 477 638 1 098 697 253 Other Blackmail* 66 32 46 71 120 66 Total 66 509 684 1 169 817 319
Note:
* including cases of enterprises being blackmailed by hackers.
2898 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
GOVERNMENT MOTION
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government motion. Proposed resolution under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance to approve the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017.
Members who wish to speak on the motion will please press the "Request to speak" button.
I call upon the Secretary for Home Affairs to speak and move the motion.
Stand-over item: Government motion on "Proposed resolution under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance" (since the meeting of 12 July 2017)
PROPOSED RESOLUTION UNDER THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ORDINANCE
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move the resolution standing in my name on the Agenda.
Legal aid services form an integral part of the legal system in Hong Kong. The policy objective of legal aid is to ensure that all those who comply with the regulations of the Legal Aid Ordinance (Cap. 91) ("LAO") and have reasonable grounds for pursuing or defending a legal action in the courts of Hong Kong will not be denied access to justice due to a lack of means. To qualify for legal aid, a person is required to satisfy both the means test and merits test as provided by the LAO.
The Criminal Procedure Rules Committee made the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules ("LACCR") (Cap. 221D) according to section 9A(1) of the Criminal Procedure Ordinance (Cap. 221). LACCR sets out the fees payable to counsel and solicitors in private practice undertaking criminal litigation work on behalf of the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") in different levels of Court (i.e. criminal legal aid fees). The Department of Justice ("DoJ") draws reference to the same scale of fees to engage counsel and solicitors in private practice to appear for the prosecution in criminal cases. Lawyers engaged in providing legal representation to defendants who appear in Magistrates' Courts and Juvenile Courts through the Duty Lawyer Service are remunerated with duty lawyer fees.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2899
Pursuant to the report by the Government to the Legislative Council Finance Committee in October 1992, the Government will review the above three fees on a biennial basis to take into account changes in Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)") during the reference period. In conducting the biennial reviews, the Government takes into account mainly general price movement during the reference period and whether there has been difficulty in engaging the services of counsel and solicitors.
For the biennial review completed in 2016, noting that CPI(C) for the reference period has increased by 4%, we propose to adjust the three fees upward by 4% accordingly. The impact of general price movement after July 2016 will be reflected in the next biennial review.
We have informed the Legal Aid Services Council, the Hong Kong Bar Association and The Law Society of Hong Kong of the outcome of the current biennial review. We also consulted the Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services in December 2016 and the Panel raised no objection to the proposed increase.
When adjusting the level of criminal legal aid fees, the issue of parity between the defendant and the prosecution should also be taken into account. Currently, DoJ adopts the same fee scale as that of LAD under LACCR when engaging lawyers in private practice on a standard briefing-out basis to prosecute criminal cases on fiat, so as to ensure that neither LAD nor DoJ would have unfair advantage in competing for the same pool of lawyers. DoJ would administratively adjust its scale of fees for engaging lawyers in private practice on a standard briefing-out basis to prosecute criminal cases on fiat upon LAD's implementation of the increased criminal legal aid fees.
The proposal to increase criminal legal aid fees and prosecution fees is estimated to incur an additional recurrent expenditure of around $7 million in a full year by LAD and DoJ each. LAD and DoJ have included the necessary provisions in the 2017-18 Estimates to meet the costs of the proposed fee increases. The two departments will absorb the workload in effecting the changes in criminal legal aid fees and prosecution fees with their existing manpower resources.
2900 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Subject to the Legislative Council's approval of the resolution, we will submit the Commencement Notice specifying the implementation date of the revised fees. May I urge Members to support the resolution. Thank you, Deputy President.
The Secretary for Home Affairs moved the following motion:
"RESOLVED that the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017, made by the Criminal Procedure Rules Committee on 2 May 2017, be approved."
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by the Secretary for Home Affairs be passed.
Does any Member wish to speak?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I think there are two major problems with the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017: first, legal aid fees are still below the reasonable market rates; second, the adjustment of fees based on changes in Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)") is impracticable.
I will first give an account of the situation where fees payable to counsel and solicitors in private practice undertaking criminal litigation work on behalf of the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") in different levels of Court ("criminal legal aid fees") are far below the reasonable market rate. Over the past few years, the big gap between criminal legal aid fees and the market rates has been the subject of criticism. In November 2006, the Government was obliged to accede to the sector's demand of raising criminal legal aid fees, which were far too low, by dozens of percentage points. While this resolution proposes to raise those fees by 4% in accordance with changes in CPI(C), the increase is still not sufficient and the huge discrepancy in respect of criminal legal fees between the market rates and those paid by LAD persists.
Deputy President, some law firms in the market are charging at least $35,000, excluding payment to counsel, for the first day of court hearing of criminal cases in District Courts. Under legal aid by contrast, fees for lawyers LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2901 handling the first day of court hearing of cases in District Courts are capped at $14,690. Hence, fees payable to lawyers for the first day of court hearing under legal aid amount to just 40% of the market rate. As the so-called market rates, as we all know, include other support given by a law firm, it is questionable whether or not a law firm undertaking cases on behalf of LAD would have enough resources to provide assistance if fees paid to it differ hugely from the going rate. If fees received by a lawyer engaged in a criminal legal aid case are just 40% of that he would be paid in the market for the same service, will he be able to provide professional and adequate services? I feel gravely concerned about this.
Fees payable to lawyers under the existing legal aid system, even making an allowance for the inflation-based upward adjustment proposed by this resolution, are still way behind the market rates. As a legal aid lawyer is paid only a limited amount of fees by the Government, the support received by his client may compare less favourably with that received by the lawyer representing the prosecution. The Government has stated that if the defendant in a criminal case was granted legal aid, the Government would draw reference to the legal aid fees level to engage outside lawyers to appear for the prosecution. However, in many a case, the lawyer on fiat in fact enjoys the support of the large team of the Department of Justice ("DoJ"). On the one side, the legal aid lawyer lacks the resources to support the defendant due to fees covered by legal aid that are way below the market rate. On the other, the lawyer representing the prosecution enjoys the support of the entire DoJ team. This will place the defendant in a criminal case in a disadvantaged, if not unfair, position.
Why is there such a big gap between criminal legal aid fees and the respective market rates? This, I reckon, has everything to do with a most problematic adjustment mechanism adopted since 2003 and wrongs were taken to be right as a result. This mechanism at the same time determines the rate of increase stipulated in the subsidiary legislation under discussion today, leading to the ongoing alienation of criminal legal aid fees from the market rates.
Under the resolution, all fees are subject to a one-off increase of 4% in accordance with the accumulated changes in CPI(C) recorded between July 2014 and July 2016. However, Deputy President, this adjustment based on CPI(C) changes, I hold, may not fully reflect the changes of various legal fees costs.
2902 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
First, let us look at what CPI(C) refers to. CPI(C) tracks changes in the monthly expenditure of households with an average monthly expenditure ranges from $44,500 to $89,999. While households with an average monthly expenditure between $44,500 and $89,999 are obviously middle-to-high-income families, it may not be appropriate, I think, to calculate changes in the expenditure of a law firm based on household expenditure. According to relevant government documents, food expenses accounted for 20.85% of CPI(C), 33.6% for housing expenditure, 1.76% for electricity, gas and water, and 20% for miscellaneous services. While changes in lawyer fees are closely related to the operating expenses of a law firm, the latter may not correspond with the proportions of the various expenditure components under CPI(C).
The share of food in the expenditure of a law firm, for example, should be minimal and in no way as high as 20%. Also, a law firm incurs no housing expenditure but bears office rental cost. With office rental rising in recent years, its share of the operating expenses of a law firm probably exceeds the 33% of housing expenditure under CPI(C). The electricity expenses of a law firm should also be higher than those of an average household. More importantly, a law firm hires a lot of staff while there is no staff cost in CPI(C). Obviously, an adjustment of the criminal legal aid fees in accordance with CPI(C) may not fully reflect the actual changes in expenditure of a law firm.
The current method of determining the adjustment rate of criminal legal aid fees on basis of CPI(C) can in fact be traced back to June 2003. Before June 2003, criminal legal aid fees were also reviewed biennially. However, in addition to CPI(C), the authorities also took into consideration such factors as the actual or anticipated difficulty in engaging the services of counsel and solicitors, the general economic conditions and office rental. In June 2003, the Government sought the approval of the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council to transfer the power of approving future fees adjustments to the Director of Administration. However, such power of approval is contingent upon the adjustment rate of the fees being no higher than the price changes as calculated by CPI(C) in the reference period. At that time, as we all know …
(Ms Claudia MO stood up)
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2903
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please hold on. Ms Claudia MO, what is your point?
MS CLAUDIA MO: Can we have the quorum please?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Claudia MO has requested a headcount.
Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
(Mr Martin LIAO stood up)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Martin LIAO, what is your point of order?
MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I wish to make a declaration of interest. I am a practicing barrister in Hong Kong.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Alright, Members may declare their interests before making their speeches or casting their votes. Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please continue your speech.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I did not quite catch what interest Mr Martin LIAO declared just now. Would you please repeat that?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, I have made myself clear just now. Please continue.
2904 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Alright, Deputy President. I mentioned just now that the Government sought the approval of the Finance Committee to delegate the authority of approving future fee adjustments to the Director of Administration in 2003, provided that the rate of adjustment is no greater than the movement of the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)") in the reference period.
Let us recall the situation of Hong Kong back in 2003. Hong Kong economy was in depression. Between April 2000 and March 2002, CPI(C) fell 4.3%, according to government figures, while office rental dropped 11.5% over the same period. As the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") and the Department of Justice ("DoJ") anticipated little difficulty in engaging counsel and solicitors even with a downward adjustment of fees in accordance with changes in CPI(C), it was therefore decided that those fees would be lowered by 4.3%. However, as the economy began to recover, despite a further drop of CPI(C) by 1% in cumulative change between April 2002 and July 2006, the rentals of Grade A and Grade B offices surged 57% and 29% respectively over the same period. The Government nonetheless kept the relevant lawyer fees frozen instead of raising them in light of the economic recovery. As those fees remained unchanged, the adjustment did not exceed the changes in CPI(C).
As we have discovered from the documents on fee adjustments, the Government began to take into consideration only CPI(C) in 2012 and stop listing figures of rental changes for Grade A and Grade B offices. Since 2008, the Government had followed CPI(C) closely in adjusting the fees for legal aid lawyers. It is thus evident that, Deputy President, the delegation of authority approved by the Finance Committee in June 2003 actually serves to limit the rate of adjustment of the various fees for criminal legal aid cases, resulting in a gap between those fees and the actual costs of a law firm. In deciding to delegate the authority of fee adjustment to the Director of Administration, the Finance Committee at the time might be driven by the desire to enhance government efficiency and alleviate the workload of the Committee. But it could also be the result of a failure, by the legislators at that time, to anticipate a surge in rental rates that would far exceed the pace of general price increase.
In a nutshell, it is already out of date to determine the adjustments to fees for legal aid lawyers in accordance with changes in CPI(C). I have no idea how many Members present here were already legislators back in 2003. Nor do I know whether or not they have discussed and studied this issue in detail. It is in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2905 fact a fallacy of logic, Deputy President, to have the changes in fees for criminal legal lawyers determined by changes in CPI(C). Why am I saying this? CPI(C) is an assessment of household expenses with high-income families as subjects. Hence, movements of the index are useful only to assessing the rates of changes in personal income. Lawyer fees, on the other hand, represent the service fees of a law firm, which are similar to those charged by a store. The level of those fees correlates not so much with changes in household expenditure but with changes in costs of running a law firm. Therefore, to put it simply, it is rather absurd to adjust lawyer fees in accordance with movements of CPI(C) which form the assessment of changes in household expenditure.
Specifically, an index that is more reflective of the actual operation of the legal sector should be devised by the Government, serving as a basis for determination of adjustments to the various fees for criminal legal aid cases. In my opinion, the Government should formulate an index for lawyer fee adjustments, of which rental changes for Grade A and Grade B offices should account for 40%, changes in staff salaries 30% while changes in electricity and water charges should account for another 20%. Since the reference value of CPI(C) is relatively low, it should account for no more than 10% of the index. By making adjustments according to such an index, changes in fees for criminal legal aid lawyers, I believe, will better reflect the current situation of the legal sector. The index for lawyer fee adjustments should be reviewed every four to six years so that it can help the Government determine accurately and fairly the fees for legal aid lawyers.
In the long term, I believe the Finance Committee should recover the authority to determine the fees for legal aid lawyers. After all, the authority for the Government to determine those fees today comes from the delegation of that authority by the Finance Committee in 2003 which, by limiting the adjustments in fee levels to no greater than the changes in CPI(C), has essentially led to the significant gap between the fees for criminal legal aid lawyers and the market rates. That being the case, the Finance Committee should consider recovering that authority and rewriting the relevant terms, with a view to delinking the fees for criminal legal aid lawyers from CPI(C). Or, we could introduce more items that better reflect the expenses of a law firm, as I have suggested, with the relevant adjustments being subject to approval by the Finance Committee.
Besides, I think the fees for criminal legal aid lawyers should be adjusted according to the quality and the ranking of the lawyer concerned. All lawyers engaged by LAD at present are paid indiscriminately the standard fees. To 2906 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 attract more quality lawyers to provide services to legal aid recipients, the Government should in fact offer more favourable remuneration to lawyers who are of good standing in the sector and willing to offer help to legal aid recipients. Hence, in the long term, the Government should consider introducing a mechanism for extra remuneration, offering better remuneration than the standard fees to prestigious and experienced lawyers willing to provide services for legal aid recipients.
Lastly, instead of a remuneration that just barely covers the costs of a law firm providing services, the fees for criminal legal aid lawyers should provide lawyers serving members of the public with adequate resources to deliver quality services, thus ensuring adequate legal protection for people granted legal aid. Under certain circumstances, criminal legal aid fees should be enough to allow a recipient to hire a legal team for his own defence, giving him a fighting chance against the formidable team of government lawyers. The robustness of the Hong Kong legal system could be further enhanced only if the criminal legal aid system offers the best possible assistance to its recipients and provides proper remuneration for lawyers providing such service.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I must sing big praises of the speech delivered by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen because of his very detailed analysis. Before all else, Deputy President, I declare that I am a member of the Legal Aid Panel of the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") as well as a practitioner of law, though I seldom handle criminal cases granted legal aid.
Deputy President, I think the judicial justice and fair trial mentioned in the Basic Law should be made the starting point for everything. In my opinion, people who do not have the means to engage lawyers for their defence, particularly those involved in serious cases, must be provided with reasonable legal services, and lawyers of calibre must be identified to help them.
Deputy President, you should be aware that the current fees level is adjusted in accordance with the existing automatic mechanism as well as the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)"). However, no review of the fees level has been conducted over a 19-year period. The last review, which was conducted in March 2014, did not take effect until 2016 or a year ago. The question raised by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen earlier was: How should we look at the fees level? LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2907
Honestly, numerous cases of injustice happened in the past 19 years because it was practically difficult to find practising lawyers of calibre in criminal law who were prepared to accept the surprisingly low fees offered by the Government.
Certainly, members of the legal profession always uphold certain values of the rule of law. They also understand that they may be unable to charge full fees according to the market rates in handling cases funded by public coffers, especially in taking legal aid cases, not to mention making a fortune. Yet, many lawyers are still willing to take these cases in the spirit of serving the public. They might handle private cases concurrently with a view to making up for the low fees charged for legal aid cases. What is more, some lawyers might wish to gain more experience through handling legal aid cases. In particular, some young lawyers are willing to charge low fees in order to accumulate experience and practical experience. For instance, some cases might involve several defendants. If one of the defendants is represented by a lawyer in private practice, a less experienced lawyer can then learn from the former. This is absolutely true. Not only can less experienced lawyers accumulate experience, but they may also demonstrate their ability in dealing with certain cases. The legal profession is actually a small coterie. Law firms wishing to recruit barristers might take these opportunities as reference for the standard, performance and diligence of the relevant lawyers. Furthermore, the lawyers will have the opportunities to build up expertise in certain fields―since criminal cases are different. For instance, white-collar crimes, drug cases, and so on, might be handled differently.
The point is the Government has never conducted any review in the past 19 years, and the current review is conducted with reference drawn to CPI(C). Given the detailed analysis made by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen just now, I will not repeat the review here but I find it very strange indeed. Though I was already a Legislative Council Member back in 2003, the prediction made at that time might be different. In retrospect, I can say that the benchmark was wrong.
CPI(C) is actually compiled according to household expenditure patterns, but we are now discussing the services provided by counsel and solicitors whose expenditure is greatly different from household expenditure. Their expenditure includes mainly rentals, payroll costs, and so on. The Government can actually analyse the expenditure patterns of lawyers in order to examine their situation and percentage of expenditure and then, having regard to their actual situation, make fairer calculations on basis of a certain pattern or formula. Certainly, should 2908 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Members oppose the 4% increase proposed this time around, their situation will only worsen. Nevertheless, the current mechanism of adopting CPI(C) or this authorization mechanism for making adjustments obviously warrants a review.
Actually, it is not the case that the Government has never made any comparison with the private or non-government sector. For instance, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority has to scramble for talents with the market. The Securities and Futures Commission has to do the same as regulatory personnel must have certain regulatory knowledge. This is why they must identify experienced talent on the market. So, will the Government use the same yardstick? It will definitely not do so because of its awareness of the constant need to compete for talents with the market. The reality is many people can afford to hire their own lawyers. So, the Government actually needs to scramble for criminal lawyers of calibre to undertake certain private cases.
Deputy President, besides expenditure, income should also be used for comparison. In order words, a comparison should be made with the private market instead of examining expenditure only as it is just a basic factor for consideration, and a loss-incurring law firm will still incur expenditure. The question is that if many lawyers are offered reasonable remuneration, then the Government cannot examine the expenditure patterns only. Instead, the income patterns should be reviewed as well. Certainly, we should not make such comparison with the highest-paid or most renowned lawyers because there is no need to engage such lawyers to deal with every case. Judging from the standard, abilities and fame of the lawyers, as well as the number of cases handled by them, the Government can nevertheless obtain relevant information to conduct reasonable examinations, so that it can get a general idea. Certainly, I do not mean to request the Government to completely follow the income of these lawyers as after all, the assistance nature of the relevant cases involves such considerations as the significance and satisfaction of work, community service, and so on. Nevertheless, I still hope the Government can really conduct a review to pre-empt the occurrence of injustice. I even dare say that incidents of injustice have occurred in the past decade or so.
Deputy President, the legal system has to be reviewed, too. Let me cite the significance of overseas legal aid services as an example. Quite many Hong Kong people have to seek criminal legal aid abroad or in the Mainland. This subject has been discussed by the political party to which the Deputy President belongs, the Democratic Party and the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2909 for almost two decades. If my memory has not failed me, the first person who raised this matter for discussion was HO Hei-wah, and there were already some queries in my mind at that time. If the situations faced by Hong Kong residents overseas are quite grim, but a legal system as sound as the one in Hong Kong is already in place there, I certainly understand that there is no need for Hong Kong to provide legal aid. For instance, the United States has already put in place a sound legal system, and so have many European countries.
However, in some parts of Asia where the rule of law has yet to find the right track or the legal system is not sound, injustices will actually be resulted should Hong Kong residents there be involved in very serious cases or even cases of injustice without receiving legal aid. It is because they are very often liable on conviction to imprisonment for 10 to 20 years, life imprisonment or even death penalty. We have recently seen some people in Southeast Asia, for instance, exploited to carry drugs or the alleged involvement of these people in cases of injustice related to drugs. Hence, I hope the Special Administrative Region Government can think about this.
We are not absolutely confident in fully grasping the situation overseas as it might be more complicated, but should the Hong Kong Government not at least offer some assistance? Deputy President, although some lawyers were introduced by the Chinese Consulates, much difficulty would still be encountered from time to time. Even the lawyers recommended by the Chinese Consulates might refuse to take on the cases. Should Hong Kong offices set up overseas strengthen communication and cooperation with the consulates to enable Hong Kong residents to receive criminal legal aid overseas? This point is most important.
Furthermore, it is also important to review the Duty Lawyer Scheme. At present, only full-day, half-day or extra fees are charged by lawyers, and the fees are linked with the level of fees charged by newly qualified lawyers. In other words, even a lawyer with decades of experience is treated as a newbie. Is it fair? Furthermore, if a case is more complicated, should a lawyer whose qualification is commensurate with the complexity of the case be engaged? This is also an important point.
Lastly, more and more people in society are concerned about criminal legal aid, especially the system of lawyers in criminal law. Under certain circumstances, especially when serious cases are involved, local residents might 2910 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 be detained by the Police, the Customs and Excise Department ("C&ED") or the Independent Commission Against Corruption but they have no means to hire lawyers to accompany them. However, the initial stage of criminal proceedings is actually the most critical moment. Without support from a lawyer in criminal law and protection for their interests―it must be borne in mind that the protection of interests does not necessarily mean obstructing investigations because it is illegal for a lawyer to obstruct an investigation. He can only tell the arrestee his rights. Certainly, some people might think that the problem can be resolved by the Government through enhancing the education of members of society. But the actual situation is not like this. Actually, defendants involved in criminal cases usually find it difficult to keep calm. Even some people who are awe-inspiring leading figures are unlikely to calm down because some of them might even be arrested in a raid conducted at 6:00 am. But still, they should be given legal aid at critical moments so that they can understand their own rights. Although their lawyers do not necessarily work for their defence throughout the entire process or teach them how to give statements after understanding the entire cases as lawyers are not allowed to do so, it is nevertheless the decision or right of the arrestees, if they are told at critical moments their due rights to make them calm down, to eventually decide how to give statements to the Police or C&ED.
From the angle of criminal trial or judicial justice, many situations are most critical. Even though we are now discussing increasing the fees by whatever percentage points and how to engage outstanding or experienced lawyers, if the person concerned is not informed of his due rights, he will only lose the lawsuit in the end. As a Chinese saying goes, "A single wrong move makes one lose the whole chess game." It is impossible to do him justice or make amends to him for the injustice done even if he is given another chance to a so-called fair criminal trial.
Therefore, I hope that the Government can provide other relevant complementary measures in addition to adjusting the basic formula to enable Hong Kong people or people in Hong Kong―as not only Hong Kong people will apply for legal aid; other people or visitors who are in Hong Kong can also apply for legal aid―receive the assured judicial justice and fair trial mentioned in the Basic Law.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2911
MS CLAUDIA MO: As a layman, never did I notice that legal aid issues would come under the Home Affairs Bureau. I thought, "What on earth?" Should it not be under the Legal Aid Department ("LAD")? And it is legal, right? It should come under, if not LAD, perhaps the Secretary for Justice. But now I understand. It seems that legal aid is considered not exactly a welfare but certainly a livelihood issue. It is a livelihood issue. Of course, we are not going into that sort of philosophical arguments, but if we are talking about the law, although it involves money, should we not let legal professionals handle it? Why is it under the Home Affairs Bureau? Does that official sitting over there know much about legal aid in Hong Kong? I personally doubt it. Something is fundamentally wrong with LAD, to start with. It is about the set-up, not about the department as such per se. Because it is a government department, part of the executive branch, so it is considered institutionally wrong. I will quote not the Hong Kong Bar Association but The Law Society of Hong Kong ("The Law Society") on that.
What is legal aid? It is to provide financial aid to members of the public who are otherwise not able to afford legal representation or access to the court system. We need to help ensure this equality before the law. Of course, we check financial eligibility, not giving legal aid to anyone who applies for it. Mr James TO was very correct―he should know better than I do too―when he pointed out that everyone is eligible for legal aid in Hong Kong. One does not have to be a resident to receive legal aid. Even a tourist passing through Hong Kong who comes under any legal wrangle and cannot afford to get justice for himself, or so he claims, can apply for legal aid. That is the beauty of legal aid. It does not stop at nationality, skin colour or anything. Anyone can apply for it. Of course, we also need to look at the merits of each application involved, whether it is reasonable or whether there is a high winning chance for taking the legal proceedings as applied.
In America, there is a Legal Aid Society which is 100% independent, but not in Hong Kong. As I was saying, our LAD is a government department. In America, the Legal Aid Society would hire staff attorneys, paralegals and even forensic social workers. It is utterly and thoroughly independent. But in Hong Kong, there is something curious about LAD. My point is … you look baffled, but you do not know how to stop me, but I do have a point of argument here. We are talking fee adjustment for lawyers and barristers involved in criminal proceedings. If LAD in Hong Kong is 100% independent, that is, if it is not part of the executive branch, then perhaps―I cannot say for sure―it would attract 2912 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 more, probably even better, lawyers to get involved in this aid scheme. However, unreasonably, as they are being paid, they could not care less. What do those senior veterans care about a 4% fee increase? What do they care even a 40% increase for that matter? They are all prepared to do pro bono work anyway, right? We are talking about a meagre 4% rise, involving a total of $7 million a year. It is nothing in a very rich Hong Kong. We are counting billions, our coffers are counting in trillions. Seven million dollars is nothing as far as Hong Kong coffers go.
I was talking about the independence of LAD. As I come to think of it, does everyone not agree that its set-up is rather similar to that of Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK"). RTHK is supposed to be editorially independent, but it is a publicly-funded government department, which is the same as LAD. They are―I was about to use the word "pretend", but I take it back―supposedly independent, but they are not quite, right? How can anyone say for sure that RTHK and LAD, both as part of the executive branch set-up, are thoroughly independent?
There was a call for the independence of legal aid services. I am not saying that our legal aid services are not doing well. Our legal aid arena has been fairly transparent. As a layman, I think it is doing a very good job. But then, we have to look at some of the details involved.
LAD did approve two rather striking applications in previous years which were claims against the Government. The first one was the judicial review case regarding the Environmental Impact Assessment reports of the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge, and the second one was on whether domestic helpers had the right to apply for the right of abode after having worked here for seven years.
These applications were against the Government, but the plaintiffs did get legal aid. So, our legal aid system seems to be doing quite well, although we must remember those two cases were both civil cases. Of course, if a claim is against the Government, usually one would assume that it is civil. I cannot think of anyone who can pursue any criminal claim against the Government in any event. But, again, I am not a member of the legal sector, so I could not say for sure.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2913
I have here with me a document of The Law Society which challenged the final report of the consultancy study on the feasibility and desirability of establishing an independent legal aid authority. An authority, not a government department, which is going to be funded by public purse but is actually independent from the Government. The Law Society said that the report in 2013 commissioned by the Legal Aid Services Council―just imagine this plethora of committees, councils, authorities―mentioned political influence, saying that at the moment LAD is virtually independent, so there is no urgent need for an independent legal aid authority. That is quite wrong.
Even The Law Society―I remind you that is not the Bar Association―said that this was just not quite right. In conclusion, The Law Society said at the time that they were disappointed―this is a very meek term―that they were against the Legal Aid Services Council's report which claimed that there was no immediate need to establish an independent legal aid authority. The Law Society also said that LAD, if not becoming an independent authority, must or should be under the Chief Executive or the Chief Secretary for Administration directly instead. It did not say that LAD should come under the Secretary for Justice, which is also part of the executive branch of the Government. So, The Law Society was very put off, apparently, and said LAD was institutionally flawed as it was.
If I was a lawyer and full of passion for justice, I would find a 4% pay increase rather little. But, do I really care if I am all for justice and my passion for legal work, etc., or the fact that it is not just about who is right or who is wrong, but every defendant should have the chance to get full legal representation and the best defence available.
In Hong Kong, it is all a bit forced, a bit twisted, a bit unreal in many ways. And that is why civil proceedings lawyers are paid much more than those involved in criminal proceedings. May be that is the main issue, I hope veterans like Mr James TO―he has left―would enlighten me on this.
And so, let us go back to the actual discussion of this fee adjustment according to our Consumer Price Index in July 2014 to July 2016. Our land prices are at the very top of the world, and we are arguing about $7 million a year of government expenditure from our coffers. Or perhaps we would need to save the money to pay for all those "white elephant" projects? That is ridiculous. I hope the Government would seriously rethink of our legal aid system. Thank you.
2914 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I remind Members that this proposed resolution seeks to adjust criminal legal aid fees. Members should focus their discussion on the fee adjustment insteading of extending it to the whole legal aid system.
(Mr Jeremy TAM stood up)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Jeremy TAM, what is your point of order?
MR JEREMY TAM (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I request a headcount.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Jeremy TAM has requested a headcount.
Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Charles Peter MOK, please speak.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK: Deputy President, we are now speaking on the proposed resolution under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance to approve the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017. Before I go further …
(Some Members talked in their seats)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please keep quiet.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK: I will let other Members settle down. Before I go any further, I want to reiterate that I share Ms Claudia MO's comment that today it would be much better if our Secretary for Justice is here as well rather than the Secretary for Home Affairs alone. After all, it is an issue that is about LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2915 justice and its administration. I think for many of us who have been working in the field of public policies for many years, there are a lot of government procedures and division of work, and so on, within the Government that even we as legislators find really difficult to understand.
Anyway, I move on. I want to start by looking back at some of the things that the Secretary for Home Affairs said to us in this Chamber back in July this year when he first moved this resolution under debate today. And I quote very briefly: "Legal aid services form an integral part of the legal system in Hong Kong. The policy objective of legal aid is to ensure that all those who comply with the regulations … [and] have reasonable grounds for pursuing or defending a legal action in the courts of Hong Kong will not be denied access to justice due to a lack of means." The Secretary repeated the aforementioned statements earlier this morning or this afternoon. I think the emphasis of the Secretary's statements is on those who comply with the regulations.
Of course, the Deputy President has reminded us that we should be talking about the substance in the amendments proposed by the Government in terms of fee adjustments, and so on. Now, referring to the regulations, the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules sets out the fees that is payable to counsel and solicitors in private practice who are hired to undertake criminal litigation work on behalf of the Legal Aid Department. There are different fees in different levels of Court. The Department of Justice draws reference to the same scale of fees to engage counsel and solicitors in private practice to appear for the prosecution in criminal cases.
Since 1992, the Government has been reviewing these fees, that are under discussion now, on a biennial basis to take into account, as some of the Members also mentioned, changes in the Consumer Price Index (C) during a particular reference period. This is of course the crux of our discussion, but to understand and to justify the importance of the fee adjustment, one cannot overlook the importance of legal aid services. And I think it is not sufficient to regard legal aid services simply as an integral part of our legal system as suggested by the Secretary for Home Affairs in his speech. Indeed, it is an integral part of our rule of law and justice in general.
Here I have with me a book by Lord Anthony LESTER, who is a notable British barrister and a member of the House of Lords. Of course, he is also a legal scholar who has worked in the United Kingdom Government since the 2916 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
1970s on many issues, including human rights issues. In fact, the Legislative Council has recently sought his legal advice on another matter as well. In this section of his writing about the rule of law, he explained that legal aid is an important and integral part of the system and concept of the rule of law.
Legal aid is about access to justice, and without legal aid, in other words, justice will be inaccessible to some people. In the part about access to justice, he writes that back in 1949, in the United Kingdom, even amidst the most stringent post-war austerity at the time, the United Kingdom Government still found it important to introduce the Legal Aid and Advice Act. The idea was that no one should be unable to defend a legal right or bring a just and reasonable claim because of cost.
This right has been expanded over the years. Initially, those accused of a crime were given help in defending themselves; as was anyone threatened with the loss of livelihood. Parents fighting custody battles were given the assistance so that the outcome reflected the best interests for their children and family and not the interests of whichever parent was better off. When in 1981, in the United Kingdom, there were documented instances of police brutality, assault and intimidation in police stations, legal aid was then extended to suspects questioned over a crime. Later on, those who claimed to be fleeing from persecution were also receiving assistance in the lodging of application for asylum. Hence, this is largely the tradition that we are following in Hong Kong.
More recently, a report by Amnesty International published in 2016 described legal aid as a prerequisite for effective human rights. And again, access to justice is named an important goal of the legal aid system. Now, it is important for us, Deputy President, to first ascertain the importance of the legal aid system in providing access to justice for people and the need for a full review of the whole infrastructure and the cost therein involved, which are the essence of the amendments under discussion today.
Hong Kong's legal aid system is often criticized by many people as inadequate. It does not take a lot of research to find out that many of the non-governmental organizations ("NGOs") in Hong Kong, which focus on providing legal assistance to the underprivileged, and even many people in the legal profession would tell us time and again that, according to their studies and research, the legal aid services funded by the Government are still inadequate. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2917
A lot of people who need this kind of aid are unable to get it. Some need to wait for a long time, maybe as long as eight weeks, for very simple legal advice or a short meeting of maybe half an hour with a lawyer.
Mr James TO stated that, without early intervention and assistance, it is indeed very difficult for some of these victims to get the legal advice they really need. Therefore, many people criticize the sort of legal assistance programmes in Hong Kong as half-baked. It is not enough.
I have also found that, in some jurisdictions, sometimes governments as well as politicians and political parties look at legal aid in a way different from the other assistance provided to citizens, for example health care. Politically it seems that governments and even many political parties consider it much more appealing to lobby for more government spending on health care rather than legal aid. But in fact, such care and aid are very much the same in principal because they are about helping the underprivileged and those who are the most in need. In fact, as regards the legal aid conditions in Hong Kong, NGOs are telling us that people receiving legal aid happen to be victims of sex crimes, the homeless, refugees and the elderly. So, to them, obviously legal aid is just like health care. It is a matter of life or dead.
Ms Claudia MO also mentioned pro bono work by lawyers. Now, certainly that forms part of the legal aid system in Hong Kong as well as other places. But I think it is unfair that the Government or society rely on pro bono work rendered by the legal profession out of its goodwill. It is because, after all, it is unfair to put all the burden on their shoulders that they would provide free legal assistance services. Now, many NGOs and legal organizations are also telling us that the legal aid system in Hong Kong, particularly in terms of service levels and the associated cost, are already lagging behind many other jurisdictions, including Canada, Australia, Ireland, Singapore, and so on.
Therefore, I am afraid that, without a full review of the whole legal aid system in Hong Kong, the proposed adjustment to the three fees, which is a 4% increase, will be not sufficient. Now, earlier as the Legislative Council was deliberating this particular amendment, I did note that the former Chairman of The Law Society of Hong Kong had expressed disappointment over the amount of increase in question. It was not the amount he was thinking about. The Hong Kong Bar Association apparently said that it is satisfied with the amount of increase, but the fees are still not competitive enough. I do not know exactly 2918 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 what it means, that it is happy with the increase but considers it not competitive enough. In this way, if the amount of increase is not competitive enough, the current shortage of services will persist.
Indeed, in the deliberation process, many Members also said that the amount of increase of 4% is still detached from inflation and legal cost at the market level. They are worried that it would still mean that legal aid services that can be provided for citizens in need will still be insufficient.
So, all in all, we welcome the currently proposed amount of increase, but we should not be just making adjustment to fees once in a while or a couple of years without a more fundamental review on how to strengthen access to justice for people in Hong Kong so as to ensure that the legal professional can provide legal aid services that meet people's needs.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I remind Members again that the proposed resolution seeks to adjust the three fees upward by 4%, drawing reference to the changes in the Consumer Price Index (C). Will Members please focus their discussion on this topic and refrain from expounding on the overall legal aid system because four Members have already expressed plenty of views relating to the legal aid system in their speeches.
(Mr Charles Peter MOK stood up)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Charles Peter MOK, what is your point of order?
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I request a headcount.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Charles Peter MOK has requested a headcount.
Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2919
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Jeremy TAM, please speak.
MR JEREMY TAM (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I express support for the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017, but I also have some opinions on the overall policy.
This revision of service fees includes criminal legal aid fees and duty lawyer fees. Deputy President, before discussing whether the revision is reasonable, I must explain the difference between the two to facilitate public understanding of the impact of the revision. First of all, legal aid services are provided by the Legal Aid Department under the Home Affairs Bureau, whereas duty lawyers are jointly provided by the Government, the Hong Kong Bar Association and The Law Society of Hong Kong. Their fees are funded by the Home Affairs Bureau. Legal aid services cover cases in the District Courts, the High Court and the Court of Final Appeal, whereas duty lawyers mainly undertake the cases of Magistrates' Courts. In general, if a member of the public is charged with a minor offence such as common theft or wounding, he probably will go on trial in a Magistrate's Court, and the duty lawyer will help him to deal with the trial or plead guilty and request mitigation.
The original intent of setting up the legal aid and duty lawyer services is to ensure that every citizen will be able to receive affordable and sufficient legal services and thus fair trials with equal treatment. They will not be deprived of their rights by the intricate legal system owing to their personal financial strength.
I had a lot of such experience in the past. Many kaifongs made enquiries with me on how to apply for legal aid services or how the duty lawyer would deal with a case. Former Legislative Council Member, Mr Alan LEONG, SC, told me that at the beginning of his career, he had taken up many such cases. Among them, there were even cases which, in other people's view, stood no chance of winning or simply sought mitigation. But according to his past experience, very often that was not true. He helped some people get acquitted. It is thus conceivable that without these services, many people would be unable to receive fair treatment owing to financial problems.
The crux of these legal aid and duty lawyer services is whether the schemes can attract enough lawyers to join them. For this reason, this legislative amendment is very important, in that it will ensure reasonable rewards for 2920 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 lawyers so that they can feel at ease about allocating their own working time to help the disadvantaged in need of legal services. Certainly, this is absolutely about striking a balance. Their choice between providing this kind of legal services and taking up private litigation jobs entirely depends on the amount of funding support set out in this amendment. Otherwise, a lack of volunteer lawyers will not be beneficial to the overall interest of society.
This time the legal aid and duty lawyer fees are adjusted in accordance with the inflation rate. Although the rates of increase for both types of services are exactly the same, the bases of the two are in fact different. This is an issue on which I wish to focus in this amendment exercise. In 2015-2016, the legal aid fees were substantially adjusted to catch up with the lag from the previous years, since the fees payable to lawyers for legal aid cases were 60% to 80% lower than those charged in the market. These are reference figures submitted by the Government to the Legislative Council at that time. For this reason, back then, the overall fees were adjusted at one go. For example, the fees for counsel were increased by 50%, and those for instructing solicitors, by 25%. Such adjustment made with reference drawn to the fees in the private sector can actually help lawyers participate in the provision of legal aid services without worries. It is absolutely beneficial to society at large.
However, the fees for duty lawyers have not seen any adjustment overall. That means legal aid fees have been adjusted, but duty lawyer fees have not. The latter have only followed the inflation rate without taking into account the substantial increase in the fee rates for private practitioners of law over the years. Even though the rates are now raised by 4%, Hong Kong's Treasury will only incur an annual increase of about $7 million in recurrent expenditure. It is not a big burden to the Hong Kong Government, which has ample funds in the Treasury, but it is vitally important to the people of Hong Kong who can be benefited. This 4% seems to imply that the Government has been delaying the comprehensive review of the fees. To the Government, 4% is not a big burden. To the willing and capable duty lawyers, it can be regarded as a drop in the bucket, better than nothing. Hence, I hope the Government can expeditiously discuss with the legal sector a review of the fee rates for these two types of services in order to encourage lawyers to undertake more legal aid cases and those for Duty Lawyer Service ("DLS").
Another point I wish to discuss is the Government's legal support and education services for the grass roots. I have worked in the district for years. Many kaifongs would come to enquire about basic legal issues such as tenancy, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2921 water seepage in their flats and financial disputes which are actually simple elementary questions of law. However, regarding the free legal services currently provided to the grass roots by the Government, there are only the duty lawyer service offered by pro bono lawyers and the Legal Advice Scheme for Unrepresented Litigants on Civil Procedures. As for the rest, the public can only read leaflets or browse the community websites on law. Therefore, basically, it is impossible for members of the public to seek legal advice in advance. Very often, it is not until they are really plagued by a lawsuit which inevitably has to be dealt with in court that they can get legal advice and support. In other words, the possibility of settlement before going to court is reduced. It also causes many people not versed in the legal system to take the case to court without any legal representation. If they lose the case, they will tend to complain about the judges and lawyers. Consequently, each party will have had a hard time.
Actually, can the legal aid or DLS be extended to cover general preliminary legal advice on cases which have not yet been taken to court? My colleagues have collected some information. As a matter of fact, there are many examples in the United States, Australia, Canada, etc. of the government or the legal sector providing resources to set up a legal advice centre. I am not going to cite these examples in detail here because this time our main focus is the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017. Nevertheless, I believe the two Honourable colleagues who will speak after me, Mr Alvin YEUNG and Mr Dennis KWOK, absolutely know about this matter better than I do. I believe they will expound on it in a while.
Nonetheless, I would like to point out that the existing legal advice service mainly comes from two sources. One is the District Offices. Yet their bookings are full every month. Some 10 years ago, I used such service to seek some legal advice. At that time it was very difficult to get an appointment for such free legal advice service. The other one is something we are also doing now. I believe the political parties of many Honourable colleagues here are doing it, too. That is, political parties would find some Members with legal background or pro bono lawyers to provide services by themselves.
I have a strong opinion on this practice because it may not be good to members of the public, since they should be able to obtain legal services regardless of political views and identities.
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If the community entirely relies on political parties to provide legal services, will members of the public in need of such services be rejected owing to differences in political views, or will they lose the opportunity of receiving legal advice service because they do not want to contact certain political parties? As such, will they be deprived of the right to seek justice in law?
Another point is, if the legal sector or the Government can provide a centralized and structured legal advice service, its quality can be assured effectively. At the same time, it will be easier to assess the adequacy of such service and whether the scope and depth of it can be expanded systematically.
Such discussion seems to have digressed from the 4% increase in the service fees on this occasion. I am grateful that the Deputy President did not interrupt my speech which I am about to finish. Yet the purpose of revising the fee rates on this occasion is to enable members of the public to enjoy effective and more comprehensive protection in law, because we are worried that if the increase is not sufficient, there may not be enough duty lawyers.
Hence, I believe if the Government can consider the scope of service and the overall fee rates, it will be able to achieve the said purpose more effectively. I support this resolution, but I hope the Government will carefully consider the views raised by me just now.
(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)
Besides, as mentioned by some Honourable colleagues just now, is the 4% increase sufficient? In particular, we have noticed that legal aid lawyers and duty lawyers are lawyers in two different fields. We have especially noted that as early as 2015-2016, the legal aid fees were adjusted to catch up with the lag from the previous years. The increase was 60% to 80%. These are figures submitted by the Government to the Legislative Council at that time. We find it very strange. Why were only the fees for legal aid increased while those for duty lawyers were not adjusted?
Actually, the same lawyer may concurrently undertake both types of services funded by the Government, i.e. legal aid and duty lawyer services. Should an imbalance arise, will lawyers who intend to provide these services be inclined to undertake only legal aid services, thus causing fewer people to serve as duty lawyers?
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In my personal opinion, duty lawyers are rather important because many members of the public are very helpless when they appear in court, and they may be unable to apply for legal aid because they fail to meet certain requirements, but they can seek help from duty lawyers. Of course, many people would say that very often, duty lawyers would merely request mitigation or do some very simple work. However, as I said just now, former Member, Mr Alan LEONG, SC, has shared with me his experience of serving as a duty lawyer at the beginning of his career. He made serious efforts in the lawsuits, and eventually the prosecution could not convict his clients. Hence, we must not look down on DLS.
I think a more reasonable approach is to use the lawyers' qualifications, etc. as the basis. Both legal aid and duty lawyers should receive proportionate fees, rather than effecting a 4% increase across the board as in the present situation.
President, I support the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017. Apart from wishing for its passage, I also hope that the relevant authorities can, as I said just now, review whether the duty lawyer fees should be adjusted later. Certainly, this does not fall under the scope of this amendment exercise, but I implore the authorities to consider each argument advanced by me just now. I hope that after the resolution is passed, more Hongkongers can be benefited while the Government will conduct a review afresh so that the legal sector will not be inclined to take up only certain types of cases. I also hope that more people will help the disadvantaged and assist poor people under prosecution who have to go to court. Although some people may hold that they deserve to be sentenced to imprisonment or fined, should they be deprived of the right to make a reasonable defence or request mitigation in court simply because they cannot afford hiring a lawyer?
I thank the President again. I so submit.
MR ALVIN YEUNG: President, may I first declare that I am a practising lawyer and on occasions, I do represent clients and advise and act on criminal issues.
President, the former British Prime Minister William GLADSTONE's famous phrase of "justice delayed is justice denied" seems to offer a perfect illustration of the problem of inadequate legal advice and assistance to citizens of Hong Kong. In the Chief Executive's 2017 Policy Address, the following 2924 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 commitment was repeated in the Policy Agenda: "Enhance access to legal aid and free legal advice to benefit more people who cannot afford private legal fees." To better reflect the increase in the charging fees for lawyers in the past 20 years, the Government had finally agreed to consider a comprehensive review of an increase in criminal legal aid fees in 2016 after a long period of lobbying, with an increase in fees by 50% for counsel and 25% for instructing solicitors. Yet, lawmakers, The Law Society of Hong Kong and the Hong Kong Bar Association have stated that such increase is still inadequate in encouraging practitioners to take on pro bono work further without having a crippling effect on business. More importantly, duty lawyer fees have not seen an increase since 1997, other than Consumer Price Index ("CPI") adjustments. The problem of delayed access to justice in Hong Kong is again brought to the surface, and should be dealt with in due course.
Currently, government legal aid funding is directed only at representation. There is indeed limited assistance for an individual to obtain early legal advice, which will be explained further in due course.
Quoted from "Proposed Increase of Criminal Legal Aid Fees", a Legislative Council Paper: "Noting the difference between the hourly rates payable to civil lawyers and those payable to criminal lawyers in private practice undertaking legal aid work, the legal profession is concerned that the criminal law field would lose its competitive edge to its civil law counterpart in attracting legal talents and retaining experienced practitioners, which may in turn affect the quality of legal representation for the accused persons whose liberty is at stake."
The restrictions on recovering costs have indeed discouraged practitioners from litigating pro bono. As mentioned earlier, the Government had finally agreed to consider a comprehensive review for an increase in fees payable to counsel and solicitors on criminal litigation work on behalf of the Legal Aid Department. This has come in response to the prolonged lobbying for an increase in criminal legal aid fees, to make sure assigned solicitors and counsel in private practice are properly remunerated, and to take into consideration the fact that the legal aid fees payable to counsel and advocates were not substantively increased in the 2012 review. On the other hand, after the completion of the 2016 review, the duty lawyer fees remain to be adjusted administratively to reflect the 4% change in CPI. In other words, the fees for duty lawyers have not seen an increase since 1997, excluding CPI adjustments. The fees for duty lawyers are way too low when compared to those for their legal aid counterparts: LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2925 duty lawyers are normally paid HK$3,490 for a half day and HK$7,020 for a full day; each volunteer lawyer who attends a legal advice session under the Free Legal Advice Scheme ("FLAS") receives a travel allowance of merely HK$300. Applying the same rationale behind the call for an increase in criminal legal aid fees, the low fees provided under the Duty Lawyer Scheme ("DLS") attracts junior and/or less experienced criminal lawyers. Lower costs came at the expense of relatively inexperienced and incompetent legal services provided.
Equal access to justice is said to be one the most fundamental cornerstones of a civilized society. Indeed, back in 1919, American lawyer Reginald Heber SMITH warned that "without equal access to the law, the system not only robs the poor of their only protection, but it places in the hands of their oppressors the most powerful and ruthless weapon ever created." The right of access to justice is the right that safeguards other rights, and ensuring equality of access is fundamental to the system of the rule of law in Hong Kong. The Government of Hong Kong has long upheld the value of access to justice. Article 35 of the Basic Law reflects its importance as one of the fundamental rights for citizens in Hong Kong. Indeed, with the support of legal aid since the late 1960s and with the implementation of various other schemes such as DLS and FLAS, the right to access to justice has been protected since the late 1970s. Indeed, the policy objective of legal aid is "to ensure that no one with reasonable grounds for pursuing or defending a legal action is denied access to justice because of a lack of means."
As a matter of fact, President, individuals face issues on a daily life basis that could potentially benefit from timely and quality legal assistance. For example, losing employment due to discrimination against disability or race; breach of contract in sales and purchase agreements are some typical examples. Early legal advice not only can play a crucial role to help prevent the escalation of legal problems, but also potentially reduce the subsequent costs in other socio-economic policy areas, in welfare, health care and housing, for example.
Yet, in addition to a legal system that is too costly for the community to access, inadequate early legal advice and assistance is also one of the major problems faced by the general public in Hong Kong. Barrister and human rights consultant Sou CHIAM described this phenomenon essentially as a "Rolls Royce" version of the law: "According to the 2008 DOJ study, (i) 79% of household and 65% of SME respondents considered most people did not know what to do when faced with a legal problem; (ii) while as a profession, Hong 2926 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Kong's barristers (52%) and solicitors (37%) have provided pro bono services, by comparison to counterparts in England and Wales, and Australia, they are reported to do less."
A report by the Global Network for Public Interest Law identifies shortcomings of DLS. These include the Scheme being reactive, where a solicitor or barrister is assigned to only one hearing and there is no follow-through between court appearances; inadequate legal advice and consultation before representation, on occasions with only 15 minutes available before a court hearing on the day of the plea for duty lawyers to meet with a client; a defendant can expect to be represented by a different duty lawyer at each interim hearing; only a handful of public interest lawyers are available in Hong Kong; and the difficulty to approach pro bono lawyers with the right expertise on short notice.
What is more, FLAS is a one-off legal advice session with no follow-ups. Even in the rare cases where there is a follow-up, the time lag and the fact that a client has to speak to a new lawyer each time (after the first appearance) will no doubt affect the quality of the legal assistance provided under FLAS.
This essentially amounts to a barrier to access to justice especially if the client is vulnerable. More often, only a short period of time is available between a lawyer and a client, and with no follow-ups. The session might be wasted if the advice is not properly explained, to which the client would likely not act accordingly. Besides, although FLAS is free of charge, free legal advice will be refused if the issue presented "involves complicated legal issues requiring detailed studying of documents".
There is indeed a significant gap in the provision of free and early legal services in Hong Kong. Limited assistance is available for an individual to obtain early legal advice. The current waiting time can be up to eight weeks for a FLAS where an individual is only entitled to a 30-minute interview. Quoting from Jeremy BENTHAM: "Delay not only tended to reduce, if not altogether eliminate, the practical value of a judgment, but it also reduced the likelihood that the judge would reach the right decision." Delay could lead to the destruction of evidence and the fading of memories. Unnecessary delay could cause justice to be delivered too late to benefit the claimant. Subsequently, the effect of a delayed judgment may render effective execution or enforcement impossible.
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President, in comparison, legal service models in different common law jurisdictions are making every effort focusing on early legal assistance and continuity in legal service. Take Australia for example, a large network of Australian Government-funded community legal centres, together with unique models of community legal services are being offered in each state and territory. In Singapore, The Law Society of Singapore's study on the provision of legal assistance in 2006 made two recommendations for the provision of pro bono assistance: (1) an aspirational 25 hours of pro bono assistance per lawyer per year; (2) setting up a pro bono service office to look for new programmes and to provide criminal legal aid services. The Law Society Pro Bono Services Limited of Singapore work in collaboration with non-governmental organizations ("NGOs") because they recognized the fact that NGOs are often better equipped to understand the needs of the community. In the United Kingdom, LawWorks as a charitable organization operates to enable access to justice to individuals who are in need of legal services but without the means to pay for a lawyer, especially in their assistance for small not-for-profit organizations in supporting the continuation and expansion of their services. The services of LawWorks often involve 30 to 45 minutes of initial legal advice and the identification of the client's options and next steps, with the possibility of providing further assistance like writing a letter or filling out forms. What about Hong Kong, President? Well, we are now still debating whether we should further increase the fees for lawyers.
In fact, the Hong Kong Government should have been aware of the need for early legal assistance and advice. There have been proposals by various consultation bodies or even legislators over the past 30 years for measures that could potentially address this issue. In 1986, the Working Party on Legal Aid examined the option of using the Green Form Scheme in England and Wales. The scheme would enable an individual with limited means to consult a solicitor for two hours to get initial general advice about their legal situation and the options available and/or have letters written. In 1993, the same Working Party received no response after recommending the legal profession to allow qualified lawyers to work for voluntary agencies and to provide free legal advisory services on a full-time basis. In 2002 came the proposal from Margaret NG and Audrey EU, both former legislators and Civic Party legislators, in order to meet the needs for proper, timely, free and affordable legal advice. They recommended a Community Legal Services Centre. A broader network of NGOs would be able to refer clients to this proposed Community Legal Services Centre, operate 2928 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 interview centres or walk-in specialist clinics, and co-organize outreach programmes for legal education and training with DLS. This was however, President, not adopted.
Coming to the end, President, the saying "justice delayed is justice denied" seems to offer a perfect illustration of the problem of inadequate legal advice and assistance to citizens of Hong Kong. An essential aspect of the rule of law is that citizens should be able to vindicate their rights and to have their claims determined by independent judges in accordance with the law. If justice is delayed excessively, not only will the ability of litigants to use the legal system efficiently be impaired, but also a denial of justice altogether in extreme cases.
Ensuring the legal system delivers timely justice for all calls upon the Government of Hong Kong to fulfil its constitutional duty of resolving disputes in accordance with the law. The fees for DLS should be increased accordingly without hesitation. Individuals' access to justice should be further protected and guaranteed without delay.
President, knowing that the Secretary is also present today, I also wish to make a very clear and sincere message to the Secretary that there are plenty of people in Hong Kong who might have some income, some money in their bank accounts, but they simply cannot afford a lawyer. Lawyers are way too expensive in Hong Kong, and we should really reconsider and have an adequate review of the system as a whole. This motion, of course, will have our full support, but on the other hand, I wish the Secretary will understand that this is simply the first step of a long, long way of reform and also access to justice.
President, I rest my case.
MR DENNIS KWOK (in Cantonese): President, earlier on many Honourable colleagues have talked about a lot of high principles with far-reaching implications in respect of the rule of law and legal aid. I do not think I need to make any repetition, for what they have said is to everyone's knowledge and we all understand the importance of legal aid, too, and the point that the legal aid system of Hong Kong is already one of the best in the world needs no further elaboration either. That said, it is necessary to distinguish between civil legal aid and criminal legal aid. At present, the quality of civil legal aid is very high indeed and in recent years, the Bureau has expanded the resources for civil legal LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2929 aid in many aspects and incorporated different types of cases into the scope of civil legal aid and therefore, civil legal aid is in a better situation. But much to our regret, criminal legal aid has remained a key area to which improvement has been continuously called for by the legal profession and many members of the community.
In fact, criminal legal aid is often more important than civil legal aid. It is certainly because criminal legal aid concerns the freedom of a person, and the most critical challenge faced by a person in his life may probably be a charge of criminal offence against him. Therefore, to members of the public, criminal legal aid is more important. But regrettably, from what we in the legal profession have seen, the support given to criminal legal aid has been far from adequate over the years. The fixed amount of litigation fees payable for criminal legal aid cases was increased substantially a few years ago because the fixed amounts of both the solicitor fees and counsel fees for criminal legal aid cases were very low. They were so low that according to what my fellow legal professionals told me, they were unable to take up criminal legal aid cases even though they wished to because they would often end up suffering a loss in handling legal aid cases. Why? The reason is simple. For example, when they have to go to the prison to see a client and obtain the latter's instruction and if the solicitor goes there with a barrister, they can claim the expenses incurred from the Legal Aid Department ("LAD"). But if the visit is conducted by the staff of the legal firm only without the company of a barrister, they cannot claim the expenses incurred, and it is outrageous for such a ridiculous situation to exist. We always hope that the Bureau can make improvement and while the Bureau has indeed made some improvement, this situation persists, and the loss still outweighs the gain in pecuniary terms for solicitors or counsel taking up criminal legal aid cases. Many lawyers, especially barristers or solicitors who already have enough work to do or whose quality are very good, are somewhat deterred from taking up criminal legal aid cases, and this is the reason. In spite of this, many people are still most willing to take up legal aid cases even though they are busy because apart from providing professional services, most legal professionals still believe that it is a very important service provided to the community in taking up legal aid cases.
However, it is regrettable that the criminal legal aid fees are reviewed only on a biennial basis now and will be adjusted upward by a mere 4%. From some figures we can see that there is often a great gap between the fees under the current proposal, such as the fees per hour, and those charged by lawyers in 2930 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 private practice in general. Given the importance of criminal legal aid, why are the resources for criminal legal aid so much less than those for civil legal aid? I hope the Bureau can give an answer in its response because as I have just said, criminal legal aid is of more important to members of the public.
Besides, is the coverage of criminal legal aid adequate? As many people have asked, when a person is arrested by a police officer and taken to a police station, can an arrangement be made for a lawyer to go to the police station immediately to provide legal advice to that person through criminal legal aid services? Very often, the police will tell the arrestee that he can ring up his lawyer but when the person does not have the means or if he has never come across such a situation or does not know any lawyer at all, how can his rights in law be duly exercised? That the police telling him that he can ring up his lawyer is no more than empty talk because it is often the case that when an arrestee gives a statement at a police station, no lawyer is present to give him legal advice, and if you ask a solicitor or barrister who deals with criminal cases, such as Mr Alvin YEUNG, he will tell you that the taking of a statement is very important because whether a person wins or loses a court case often depends on the statement signed by him at a police station. Does he say something wrong or is he given advice by counsel? This is a most important part of the process.
Therefore, insofar as criminal legal aid is concerned, we have all along proposed to the authorities that the scope of legal aid must be extended to cover police stations, or the scope be extended to enable a person arrested by a law enforcement officer to immediately ring up a duty lawyer through the legal aid scheme, so that the lawyer can provide legal advice for him. Only in this way can the overall legal aid service in Hong Kong, especially in respect of criminal cases, be considered complete or comprehensive.
As we all know, during the Umbrella Movement, the police conducted many large-scale operations and arrested many people. In view of this, many lawyers and fellow legal professionals were voluntarily on call 24 hours a day and seven days a week. In case students or other protesters were arrested, they would immediately rush to the police stations or reception centres to provide free legal services for the arrested protesters. It is because many of the protesters were students and honestly, students certainly do not know how to seek assistance from lawyers; nor do they have the means to do so. If the students inadvertently said something wrong when giving statements or if they provided wrong information which was recorded by the Police, it would be turned into evidence LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2931 that could possibly affect their whole life. Therefore, the existing coverage of criminal legal aid is indeed inadequate, and I hope that the Department will carry out a review immediately.
Speaking of duty lawyers, I have to mention one point, that is, the Duty Lawyer Service likewise has not been reviewed for the past decade or so. Members who have been paying attention to the discussion of the Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services certainly know that I, being the Deputy Chairman, as well as many members of the Panel are greatly concerned about this issue. The coverage of criminal legal aid aside, we will also review the Duty Lawyer Service ("DLS"). We hope that DLS can be extended to cover police stations, and the current resources allocated to DLS are far inadequate for supporting the work and the manpower required. DLS is an issue that we in the Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services will discuss and keep in view. I hope the Secretary will give a response on this point.
Why do we have to discuss the importance of criminal legal aid and DLS? Of course, many people may ask if there is any overlapping between DLS and criminal legal aid. Yes, they are indeed overlapped. If criminal legal aid can be provided comprehensively and its coverage extended, it is true that DLS may not be necessary. But why do we need DLS now? It is because there are loopholes in the existing criminal legal aid system. But if the two systems can be reviewed and examined at the same time, would it be possible to pool the resources together to implement a professional legal aid scheme for criminal cases which covers the needs of all types of criminal cases? I hope the Bureau can carry out a review in this connection.
In this year's Policy Address, we have seen that LAD will be place under the ambit of the Chief Secretary for Administration, which has been proposed by the Legal Aid Services Council over the years, and we in the legal profession also support this proposal. We are glad to see it being implemented this year and the work of LAD will come under the Chief Secretary for Administration. I hope the Government will be more concerned about the work of LAD and attach weight to its importance, so that LAD can receive more attention and be given more resources to enable its work to become more enriched. I hope that the Chief Secretary for Administration, apart from considering a review of the criminal legal aid fees, will also review the entire legal aid system, including legal aid for civil cases.
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Speaking of civil legal aid, with regard to how its coverage can be extended and how the services of LAD can be upgraded, we have talked about these issues for many years. The importance of LAD certainly lies in its role of approving applications for criminal legal aid and civil legal aid. I must say before all else that the lawyers and civil servants in LAD have discharged their public duties with the utmost professionalism and prudence and as far as I know, they have worked most professionally and independently in processing each and every application and in granting legal aid in accordance with the legislation on legal aid and the relevant laws. Whether inside or outside this Council, I always hear people criticize LAD for granting legal aid excessively, resulting in the abuse of the legal aid system. These comments are utterly unfair to LAD because as I have just said, each and every colleague in LAD works professionally, granting legal aid in accordance with the law. Therefore, I hope that criticisms aside, we must not denigrate or maliciously criticize the professional lawyers and civil servants who have faithfully performed their duties in LAD. They have been playing a most important role. Comments rashly made about the legal aid system being abused and about colleagues in LAD granting legal aid casually are indicative of a lack of understanding of the system per se, much less the grounds for granting legal aid.
If we refer to some figures, we will notice that the number of cases in which a person wins his case through criminal legal aid is not small. The same goes for civil legal aid because in many cases, had civil legal aid not been granted, the aided persons might not be able to institute proceedings or make a defence for themselves. From the figures we can see that in many cases, civil and criminal legal aid can really help see justice done to the persons concerned in court ultimately. Such being the case, we should never belittle the neutrality and professionalism of LAD.
Lastly, I would like to talk about why legal aid is so important. Apart from some principles expounded by many Honourable colleagues earlier on, actually legal aid is similarly vitally important to the effective operation of the Court. Be it the defendant in a criminal case or any party to civil proceedings, the absence of legal representation would cause the Court to be burdened by a heavy workload. As pointed out by a Judge after conducting an objective study, if any one party to proceedings is not legally represented, the time required would be 30% more than other cases. In other words, a reason for the huge backlog of long outstanding court cases and long waiting time for hearing is that one of the two parties in many cases or even both parties in a civil case do not have legal representation. This has greatly affected the effectiveness and sustainability of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2933 the judicial system in Hong Kong. If the legal aid system can be enhanced and the quality of criminal legal aid upgraded, and when more lawyers become willing to take up legal aid cases, it would be a good thing to the overall operation of the judicial system and to the overall development of Hong Kong. Therefore, we absolutely cannot belittle the legal aid system. I also hope that insofar as criminal legal aid is concerned, the Bureau will not just rely on a biennial review to increase the fees or resources, for this would be far from adequate. I hope the Bureau will carry out a comprehensive review that gives regard to all aspects and all perspectives for the better development of the work of LAD in future to the benefit of more people. Thank you, President.
MR KENNETH LEUNG: President, I am speaking on the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017 ("the Rules").
Indeed, I must declare my interest first, President. I am a practising solicitor of the High Court though I do not have much chance to handle criminal cases as I am a practising tax lawyer.
In fact, I think, in this Chamber, we rarely have a chance to have a very in-depth debate on our legal aid system, in particular, on criminal legal aid. As my Honourable friend, Dennis KWOK, has pointed out, legal aid in criminal cases is really important to the administration of the rule of law because the fate and destiny of a person, an individual or the accused could possibly be jeopardized if he or she does not have legal aid or a capable lawyer to defend his or her case. In fact, the right to a fair criminal trial has been described as the birth right of every citizen. It is also said to be axiomatic that a person charged with a criminal offence should receive a fair trial, and that if he or she cannot be tried fairly for that offence, he or she should not be tried for it at all. Actually, for a fair criminal trial to take place, we should not just have an independent impartial court, access to justice is very important, too.
Now, under the present legal aid system administered by the Home Affairs Department ("HAD"), there are three completely different types of legal aid schemes. In the year 2015-2016, the fees for criminal legal aid was increased to reflect the rise in legal fees which had not been taken into account for many years. However, for the past 20-odd years, the Government has been neglecting the demand for revising or increasing the fees payable to duty lawyers under a completely different legal aid scheme.
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Let me tell Members how the legal market works, Honourable President. In fact, if we look at the charges of small firms, medium-sized firms, the city's firms and barristers these days, it is not difficult for us to see that the amount attributed or allocated to criminal legal aid or the Duty Lawyer Scheme ("DLS") is mediocre and insufficient. For a newly qualified lawyer in a very small firm, the average charge-out rate ranges from $2,000 to $3,000, yet for a top partner in a city firm, it is about $12,000. A barrister or senior barrister will charge up to $15,000, which is only common. It is not uncommon that a senior counsel will command a fee of about $20,000 per hour―I am all along talking about the hourly rate. Now, in terms of the two different legal aid schemes, the first legal aid scheme is provided for fees for the District Court, the Court of First Instance, the Court of Appeal, the Court of Final Appeal and committal proceedings in the Magistrates' Court. As for DLS, the one under the Rules, it is a scheme jointly set up by The Law Society of Hong Kong and the Bar Association of Hong Kong. It is kind of a joint-venture non-governmental organization ("NGO"). The Scheme is meant to help those victims in cases handled at the Magistrates' Court level.
However, when I look at how this rate adjustment mechanism works, I am very puzzled, because the rate has been linked to a basket of indices under the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)"). I am quite aware, President, that this kind of mechanism used, CPI(C) which includes a basket of commodities and goods excluding rent, as far as I can remember, is a kind of general inflation index. However, President, the charge-out rate or the salary level of lawyers―as the solicitor profession can also be referred as lawyers―are not really linked to CPI. There is no linkage, direct or indirect, of the fees to CPI.
In fact, there are three factors which will affect the charge-out rate charged by solicitors. Though I think, in the present circumstances and pragmatically, it would be quite difficult to link the adjustment to the charge-out rate of solicitors working in this city, I would just share the three main factors with Members. First, it is the overhead costs of a firm. Basically, I think, the main cost of a firm will be the rental. Second, it is the salary trend of solicitors, which is inextricably driven by external economic factors including the number of transactions and the number of deals taking place in this jurisdiction and neighbouring jurisdictions. Third, it is the complexity of the transaction or advice concerned.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2935
Honestly, I cannot see how the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") or the legislature may link the adjustment with all these factors, like pay level and overhead cost level, and so on. However, there are other reference points which I think should be taken into account. For example, there are annual pay trend surveys conducted by major consultancy firms and headhunters. Firms like PA Consulting Group do conduct legal market surveys which give a very clear picture of charges of each category of lawyers. In fact, if we want to improve the quality of duty lawyers, President, the authorities should really consider linking the biannual revision of fees of duty lawyers to the pay trend of criminal lawyers or criminal barristers, and it is not difficult to get these two types of information.
I think LAD should think hard whether or not the link to CPI(C) should continue. Although, as I have said, the authorities may consider this a starting point, it is unsatisfactory. In fact, I have talked to other departments, such as the Water Supplies Department. They are reviewing the water supply from Dong Jiang with reference to this basket of consumer price indices as well. So, it is quite ridiculous that every department is using this basket of consumer price indices as a reference point. The authorities can do that, but I think the trend of charges of lawyers should also be looked at.
Now, we will look at the criminal legal aid system instead of the level of fees, for access to justice is a very important component of the rule of Law. Apart from having an impartial, independent and transparent cost system and an impartial and independent judiciary, access to legal service is the key to preserving the rule of law in this city. If we look at the criminal legal aid system critically, it is quite easy to identify a few gaps which I think LAD should pay more attention and address them.
First of all, the legal aid funding of the Government merely focuses on representation, and there is limited assistance for individuals to obtain early legal advice. What does that mean? When a person is apprehended by a police officer and detained in the police station, he or she needs legal advice at that stage. As Mr Dennis KWOK said earlier, the police officer will tell them, "If you have a lawyer, you can call him." But for common grass-roots people or common citizens, it would be difficult to get a lawyer off hand, let alone getting a lawyer to deal with the relevant situation at the police station. Nothing under the present legal aid system may help a person being detained in the police station or by other law enforcement agencies.
2936 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Second, legal aid only concerns or covers the proceeding stage, yet the application for legal aid itself is a process that requires legal analysis. But currently, this is not covered by legal aid. President, I am talking about the application procedures for legal aid. This is also an important aspect, for one has to decide whether or not to proceed with the court case. In criminal cases, of course, there is not much choice. If a person is charged by the Government, the Director of Public Prosecutions, there is perhaps very limited room to decide whether or not to put up defence. In 90% of the cases, I believe, one has no choice but to put up defence. The person may either defend himself or get a reputable criminal lawyer if he has financial resources or if he has obtained legal aid. So, at this preliminary stage, it is important whether or not a person should apply for or is qualified for legal aid.
Thirdly, in criminal cases, most defendants will only have access to duty lawyers at the Magistrates' Court as the Rule mentioned. President, the defendant can only meet with their lawyers before the first hearing but not during the police interview process when the statement is being taken by the Police. Most often, the clients will only have about 15 minutes to discuss their cases with the lawyer in the police station, which is quite insufficient. In cases where a person is detained by a police officer in the police station, an interview of merely 15 to 20 minutes with the lawyer is inadequate. The duty lawyer can hardly provide any assistance during this interview process. It is another story if the defendant has his own lawyer attending to him at the police station.
So, I would like to urge the Home Affairs Bureau to examine whether or not duty lawyer services should be extended to people detained and charged by the Police. There is an ancillary scheme, the Free Legal Advice Scheme, in addition to the legal aid system and DLS, providing one-off 30-minute advice sessions. Yet the average waiting time is eight weeks, which is highly unsatisfactory.
President, if we want to overhaul and review the legal aid system, I think it is better to review these three schemes together instead of making piecemeal adjustments every year or every two years. Of course, I am talking about the criminal legal aid system here. I do not want to digress to the civil area. We all know that if a charge is laid on a citizen by the Government, the consequence can be dire and serious.
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Hong Kong all along has a high rating in the rule of law. In fact, in a recent survey, we are among the top 20 jurisdictions in the world and we are in the leading among other Asian jurisdictions in terms of the rule of law. I think the Chief Executive has stressed in the Policy Address that the core values of this city include the rule of law and judicial independence. These twin pillars will guarantee that an innocent person should remain innocent and he or she will get the best legal advice and the best type of legal representation. Yet without legal aid, we cannot offer such assistance to these people.
Thank you, President.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI Chi-fung, please speak.
MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): I request a headcount.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI Chi-fung, please speak.
MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): I rise to speak in support of the proposed resolution under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance. I hope this resolution can be passed and then the Government will expeditiously submit a Commencement Notice to appoint the commencement date of the newly revised criminal legal aid fees. I hope the new fees can come into effect as soon as possible.
The increase in criminal legal aid fees set out in this amendment exercise originates from the authorities' biennial review of criminal legal aid fees, prosecution fees and duty lawyer fees. In this review, there was a detailed analysis and report. The final conclusion was to raise the criminal legal aid fees by 4%. As pointed out in the report, this rate of increase reflected the 2938 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 accumulated change in the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)") between July 2014 and July 2016. Just now some Members already raised questions like whether there is any other calculation method, whether the increase rate should be 4%, whether the calculation should be based on CPI(C) or CPI(A), and whether the rate should be greater the change in this index. I am not going to repeat these points here, but I think the Government should give them consideration.
In the relevant report of the biennial review of criminal legal aid fees, the criteria and factors of consideration of the authorities in conducting the review were mentioned. As pointed out by the review report, pursuant to the decision of the Finance Committee of the former Legislative Council in 1992―what an ancient decision―the fees are subject to review by the Government on a biennial basis, which will mainly take into account inflation or deflation, and whether there has been difficulty in engaging the services of counsel. If inflation or deflation is taken as a factor of consideration, it would sound quite reasonable to the general public. As regards whether there has been difficulty in engaging the services of counsel and solicitors, I think this point should be properly magnified for a closer look. What is meant by "there has been difficulty"? If we simply interpret the wording, does it mean there is no difficulty as long as manpower can be engaged, there are people willing and waiting to undertake such cases, and the operation is sound and normal in the profession? In my view, the Government should think it over after listening to various Members' speeches in this in-depth discussion. Does it really mean there is no difficulty according to this definition?
Just now some Members mentioned the difference between civil legal aid and criminal legal aid in their speeches. I need to emphasize it again, President. I hope you will not accuse me of being repetitive because this point is very important. Very often, civil cases concern pecuniary losses, consideration of debts, compensation and issues not involving personal freedom. Speaking of criminal cases, however, we put great emphasis on one point―this is a very important point―a person may be deprived of his freedom. If a criminal case is not handled properly and the person in question suffers injustice, it will ruin his whole life. Moreover, this issue involves personal freedom and basic human rights. For this reason, is criminal legal aid not worthy of more of our attention, and should society not inject more resources into it? However, the real-life situation seems to tell us that society seems to treat criminal legal aid more lightly. As mentioned by some Members just now, there is already a gap between the fee rates for civil legal aid and those for criminal legal aid. There is also a great disparity in the qualifications, service quality and experience of the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2939 participating practitioners of law. Why? If we think about it more deeply, we may find this related to the question of whether there has been difficulty in engaging the services of lawyers mentioned in the review report. It turns out that many solicitors and counsel handling criminal legal aid cases are working pro bono. Just now I heard a Member use the expression pro bono, saying that undertaking criminal cases for legal aid fees, they can only laugh at themselves and joke in this way. We can say that accepting such a low pay level, they are devoted to their profession or exerting their utmost in their job. To the ordinary masses, an hourly rate of $1,000 to $2,000-odd may be very high, but compared with the overall fee rates in the legal profession, it is in fact very low. This is the objective fact, which is indisputable. Why is there still a group of solicitors and counsel, mainly the younger ones, willing to undertake such cases? It is precisely because criminal legal aid has a profound impact, and it concerns whether social justice can be manifested and personal freedom protected.
To put it more crudely, such "cheap" cases are undertaken because this group of virtuous lawyers upholding the spirit of justice are prepared to do so. Many people under criminal prosecution who apply for legal aid need financial assistance. They are not rich people. If we look at it from a relatively "leftard" perspective, are poor people under criminal prosecution not worthy of our help? Is criminal prosecution against the poor considered unimportant in society, so they can be provided with inexperienced lawyers? Is it because they are poor that they would be looked down upon by other people and belittled in society, rather than being treated with high regard?
What warrants more attention is that in recent years, there have been many political prosecutions. No matter whether Members of the pro-establishment camp agree or not, it is an objective fact that in recent years, there has been an increasing number of people prosecuted owing to public demonstrations, processions and political confrontations. Many of them do not come from rich families. Once subjected to prosecution, they ran into great difficulties and needed to raise money to pay the legal costs. Does the increase in the number of such people and groups imply that there will be more cases of injustice in future? I think the occurrence of the numerous criminal cases falling under political prosecution in recent years is obvious to all members of the public. I need not talk too much about it. When this group grows bigger, are the poor not worthy of our help? I came from a legal background myself. I remember very well that when I was a trainee in a law firm, a senior colleague said to me, "Ah Fung, do you know how the Chinese character '法' (meaning law) is constructed? It consists of the 'water' radical '氵' and the character '去' (meaning go). That 2940 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 means it is only when you have water (meaning money) that you can go ahead." It turns out that law is a game for the rich or the upper class in society. This concept has lingered in the minds of the petty masses. If we ask the opinions of the people with whom we often come into contact in the front line of society, we will know that they still harbour such an impression.
Meanwhile, we need to consider another view that despite the poor remunerations for criminal legal aid, some young people are still willing to do it. As we all know, counsel or solicitors have an especially tough time when they are green in the profession. They have to seek cases and tap the clientele. This is by no means easy. Consequently, many of them will first take up criminal legal aid cases to train themselves, acquire more practical experience and raise their status in the profession before venturing out. This may give the public an impression, or this is the reality in the profession, that criminal legal aid cases are the ladder for rookies to acquire and accumulate experience.
However, come to think about it. The person under criminal prosecution in each and every case is someone with flesh and blood. Should these cases serve as rungs of their career ladder? Certainly, not everyone personally thinks this way, and not every counsel views this matter in this way. Nevertheless, if this is a common situation in real life, is this a phenomenon which should exist in the criminal law practice in Hong Kong? Can the poor people prosecuted by the Government be used as guinea pigs for trials by a group of lawyers? That should not be the case.
So, back to the biennial review. Has there been any difficulty in engaging the services of counsel and solicitors? All of what I said just now are difficulties. Should the Government continue to hold such an attitude, considering that as long as there are still people willing to work pro bono, that means there is no difficulty even if their performance is poor, their service quality is not high and their experience is insufficient? In my view, the Government should thoroughly review this matter. Hence, in conducting the biennial review in the future, apart from inflation, deflation, CPI(A), (B) and (C), and whether lawyers can be engaged, can it also consider the issues raised by me just now? What I mean is, in reality, does the criminal legal aid services currently provided by practising solicitors and counsel indeed vary in quality? Can consideration be given to this matter in the review? Should the gap between civil and criminal legal aid fees be included as one of the considerations under the review mechanism? Certainly, civil and criminal laws are different in nature. Both LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2941 the Government and the legal sector have indicated on different occasions that it is impossible to align the fee rates for the two to exactly the same level. This may be too idealistic to put into practice. Nevertheless, should they not be drawn closer to each other?
Please remember, what we are talking about is just a matter of money. Why not raise the fees for solicitors and counsel providing criminal legal aid services and offer them better remunerations? As mentioned by the practitioners of law who spoke just now, their pay is often calculated on an hourly basis. The fee rates for criminal legal aid is low, and it is possible that they will receive complicated and lengthy cases, but the fees are capped. That means there is a ceiling on the pay they can get. In the market, if the case is a criminal one without legal aid, the more complicated the case is, the higher the rewards they can receive under the value-for-money principle. However, for criminal legal aid cases, there is a cap on the fees besides the low fee rates. The complexity and length of the cases will only widen the gap of the fee rates. A case is supposed to involve a lot of legal costs. But basically, criminal legal aid lawyers working till the end merely become volunteers. Such being the case, how can these solicitors or counsel feel any contentment from work and maintain the service quality, while experienced solicitors or counsel can be attracted to undertake criminal legal aid cases?
Hence, this point is simple and obvious. How can we continue to treat legal aid, especially criminal legal aid, lightly and not address this issue squarely? Is our Treasury so short of money that it is reluctant to do something so simple as to raise the increase rate a bit higher? If the Government uses money to weigh the manifestation of justice in law, considering it better to save more money, will it be happy only if legal aid services are provided by the lowest bidders in the future? Should legal aid services really adopt the tender approach under which only the lowest bid wins, as proposed by some people in the United Kingdom? Should Hong Kong really hold such a value in respect of its legal support, especially in the criminal area, for the ordinary masses and the poor? I hope we can do some introspection in this debate if we do not wish to go to such a stage. Regarding this 4% increase, I certainly support an upward adjustment to the fees, but we should also ponder deeply over our expectations on the law and the people's pursuit of justice.
President, my time is almost up. I so submit.
2942 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
MR HOLDEN CHOW: President, we are talking about the review of legal aid costs for criminal cases based on the price index today, and I surely support the proposed motion today. However, I will also voice my concern.
Over the years, as my colleagues have rightly pointed out, the costs for criminal lawyers are much lower than civil lawyers providing legal aid. Having reviewed the cost for instructing solicitors on an hourly basis with a 25% increase for an hourly fee, which is conducted around a year ago, I reckon it is still lagging behind the costs for civil cases. In a nutshell, President, I believe we should carry out a reform on the costs for criminal services in the long run. After all, access to justice is of paramount importance to us. We must provide other incentives for high calibre lawyers to take part in providing legal aid for criminal cases. There will be a lot of things to be done in order to go forward. We cannot just simply pass the motion now and call it a day. We cannot do that because what we do today marks the beginning of a long journey.
MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): President, I almost forgot to declare my interest as a practising lawyer.
Today, we are discussing the adjustment of criminal legal aid fees with reference to the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)"). I strongly support this. However, I also have to point out that, as mentioned by a number of Honourable colleagues today, the legal aid fees charged by criminal case lawyers are still far lower than those charged by civil case lawyers. For example, about a year ago, the Government proposed adjusting the hourly legal aid rate for criminal case lawyers upwards from $800 to $1,000 but according to the guidelines issued by The Law Society of Hong Kong, the hourly rate charged by solicitors with 10 years of experience should actually be $4,000. In view of this, although we saw the Government adjust lawyers' fees upwards earlier on, they are still lagging far behind the market rate. Consequently, as some fellow members in the legal profession often put it, some lawyers consider criminal legal aid cases to be "hard nuts" because for one thing, the fees are really too low and for another, some lawyers consider it not worthwhile to take up such cases. President, such views are actually not at all healthy for the whole legal system. For this reason, I hope that after the authorities have made the adjustment according to the CPI(C) this time around, a more comprehensive review, particularly in relation to criminal legal aid fees, can be conducted later on.
Today, I heard an Honourable colleague say that criminal legal aid fees should be linked to the market in the future. Concerning the suggestion on linking them to the market, in fact, the Chief Justice of the Court of Final Appeal LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2943 has earlier on appointed a working group to carry out a study. As far as I know, the first phase of the study has been completed and preparations are being made to proceed to the second phase. The group is established precisely with a view to studying the hourly rate charged by lawyers and whether or not more significant adjustments are in order.
Let us recap the history. The last comprehensive review of the hourly rate for lawyers was conducted in 1997, President, so I am talking about something that took place about 20 years ago. For this reason, I hope to see and look forward to the publication of the outcomes of the study, including those related to lawyers' fees, by the study group later on. The hourly rate charged by lawyers has not changed in the past two decades, so should we not keep abreast of the times and make more significant adjustments? In this regard, I hope the working group will make an announcement on this issue.
President, let us come back to the issue of criminal legal aid fees. We can see that if the rate offered is not attractive enough, it is indeed difficult to get more experienced lawyers to take part in providing criminal legal aid. For this reason, I believe that in the long run, it is necessary to conduct a review. Today, I have also heard an Honourable colleague suggest that the criminal legal aid fees be linked to the ranking of lawyers. It was probably Mr CHAN Chi-chuen who made this suggestion just now. First, I believe it is difficult to rank solicitors. Members of the profession know full well that different lawyers specialize in different types of cases or domains. For example, some lawyers deal more often with litigation cases, which can be further categorized into those related to industrial accidents, commercial disputes or divorce. It is actually quite complicated to compare lawyers dealing with various types of cases. For this reason, if criminal legal aid fees are to be determined by the ranking of a lawyer as per the suggestion, there will be some difficulty in implementation. Therefore, allow me to point out in this speech that such a proposal may not be feasible. In sum, I wish to reiterate my view that in the long run, more significant adjustments should be made to criminal legal aid fees, so as to keep abreast with the present level of civil legal aid fees, and as pointed out by me just now, it is hoped that more experienced lawyers will be attracted to provide legal aid services.
President, I so submit.
2944 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): President, the purpose of this proposed resolution under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance is clear and simple as it seeks to raise the legal aid fees for criminal cases. However, the discussion on the fee adjustment alone actually fails to touch on the crux of the entire problem of legal aid.
In fact, Article 25 of the Basic Law provides that "[A]ll Hong Kong residents shall be equal before the law." Article 35 provides that "Hong Kong residents shall have the right to confidential legal advice, access to the courts, choice of lawyers for timely protection of their lawful rights and interests". Article 38 provides that "Hong Kong residents shall enjoy the other rights and freedoms safeguarded by the laws of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region." These three articles stipulate that Hong Kong residents shall be duly protected by the law, and the Government also has the duty to ensure that the judicial proceedings are fair, impartial, open and transparent. The legal aid service can precisely make up for any possible inadequacy by ensuring that the less well-off grass-roots people should also enjoy reasonable legal rights.
Therefore, insofar as this issue is concerned, as the Secretary said in July this year when he moved the motion, the policy objective of legal aid is to ensure that all those who comply with the regulations of the Legal Aid Ordinance and have reasonable grounds for pursuing or defending a legal action in the Courts of Hong Kong will not be denied access to justice due to a lack of means. So, regarding this whole issue, while financial conditions are certainly an important factor, it is more important that through this process, justice is not only done but also seen to be done. In other words, increasing the fees under the legal aid scheme alone cannot fulfil all the requirements for manifestation of justice.
Let us come back to the existing legal aid system. The Hong Kong Bar Association, the Democratic Party and many members of the public have all along demanded that the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") be made an independent statutory body and this, of course, is not included in the current review. However, I wish to point out that as I have just said, justice is done when it is seen to have been done, rather than in the form of mere window-dressing. In fact, the recent years have seen a continuous increase in judicial review cases and there have been many incidents of political prosecution. Therefore, there is a pressing need for LAD to become an independent authority, for this could prevent the public from questioning that LAD is merely a part of the Government, while the credibility of LAD would also be enhanced on account of it being an LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2945 independent body, thus inspiring popular confidence in the rule of law. This would be a factor vitally important to the implementation of "one country, two systems", "Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong" and "a high degree of autonomy" in Hong Kong.
The Hong Kong Bar Association has put forward a lot of views on the independence of LAD, and the Government has also conducted studies in this respect. In 2012-2013, a report entitled Consultancy Study on the Feasibility and Desirability of Establishing an Independent Legal Aid Authority was published. In the report it is stated that with an uncapped financial budget for legal aid, there is no sign of government interference with the relevant operation and so, there is no need for it become an independent authority. But I wish to point out that if Members have paid attention to some figures, actually they can see another picture. In the past decade, the annual budget estimate for the Department of Justice ("DoJ") is as much as $1.7 billion but the estimate for LAD remains at $400 million to $500 million per annum. What does it mean? It means that a decade ago the financial estimates for DoJ and LAD were more or less the same but 10 years down the line, there is now a big gap between them.
Besides, under subhead 208 of LAD, the approved estimate for legal aid costs remains at around $500 million but the actual expenditure is only about some $400 million over the years. Does it reflect that actually the Government has set an intangible ceiling in drawing up the budget estimate? From an objective point of view, and as pointed out by many Honourable colleagues earlier on, the adjustment made to the criminal legal aid fees on a biennial basis according to the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)") actually lags far behind the increase in the normal legal costs in the profession. From this perspective, the situation should have been reflected in the figures, but why is it that the budget ceiling for LAD has been kept at a broadly stable level of $400 million to $500 million over the years?
President, I wish to point out that according to the Government, in drawing up subhead 208 of the Budget, consideration was given to a diversity of factors, including the amount of legal aid costs spent, changes to legal fees, and changes to the scope of the Ordinary Legal Aid Scheme. I have also read the paper submitted by the Government to the Legislative Council in February 2016 on the proposal to substantially increase the counsel fees for criminal legal aid cases. The reason of the Government proposing an increase was that under the original legal aid scheme, the hourly rate for a counsel with 10 years of experience was 2946 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 about $1,500 for undertaking a criminal case but a counsel with 10 years of working experience generally charged $4,000 for undertaking a civil case in the Court of First Instance. In view of this big gap in the fees, the Government therefore substantially increased the fees for criminal legal aid cases.
I wish to point out that according to another source of information, over a long period of time in the past, most lawyers undertaking legal aid cases have only about one to four years of experience, and according to another group of figures, comparatively more experienced lawyers have taken up cases of LAD following an adjustment or improvement of the fees. In this connection, I very much hope that apart from making a general adjustment to the current fees for criminal legal aid cases according to CPI(C), the Government should indeed seriously and extensively consider whether the current levels of fees payable by the Government can cover the normal legal costs in the profession.
In July this year, in the paper submitted by the Government, another concept was mentioned and that is, the extension of legal aid to the provision of legal advice service for persons detained in police stations, and I think this proposal represents a most important concept. In fact, as mentioned by many Honourable colleagues earlier on, throughout the entire course of criminal proceedings, the first critical juncture is probably that the arrestee should have access to legal assistance when giving the first statement during his detention by the Police. To members of the general public, the early extension of this service will provide them with greater support when under detention and when giving a statement in police stations.
As we know clearly, in taking a statement the Police will often say that you are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so but what you say may be adduced as evidence in court. But from our daily work experience, many members of the public do not in the least understand the actual meaning of this statement and worse still, when giving a statement, they may, for the reason of not understanding their rights in law, make some remarks that would affect them in duly seeking justice insofar as their legal rights are concerned. Therefore, although this is implemented only on a pilot basis, when it is reviewed on the next occasion, the Government should expeditiously table this proposal to the Legislative Council to make it practicable, so that the legal rights of the general public will be protected not only in the course of the proceedings but also when being detained by and giving a statement to the Police because this statement is very important to the subsequent hearing. This can ensure that they will enjoy the legal rights to which they are entitled.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2947
This resolution serves to increase a number of fees for legal aid cases in line with inflation. I believe Members all welcome it and indeed, we also welcome it. Having said that, the adjustment of the fees cannot echo the underlying principle and policy objective of the legal aid system of enabling all people in need to be protected by law, thereby inspiring popular confidence in the legal aid system and enabling justice to be upheld. Therefore, technically speaking or from the perspective of law reform, what this resolution can tackle is only a very minor part of the entire process of manifestation of justice in law, and there is actually still a long way from making up for the inadequacies that I have just talked about, including whether the proposal of making LAD an independent body should be implemented, the extension of the scope of legal aid to detainees, and so on. All of these warrant further examination by us. In fact, these issues have been discussed for a long time on various occasions but it seems that the Government has shown no resolve to further ensure through the legal aid system that the legal rights due to Hong Kong citizens under Articles 25, 35 and 38 of the Basic Law will be fully covered and protected.
Legal assistance aside, another area that I wish to talk about is the Duty Lawyer Scheme ("DLS") on which members of the public heavily rely for protection of their legal rights as citizens. While this may be kind of irrelevant to the issue under discussion, I wish to point out that this is part of the protection of people's rights in the entire legal system. Currently there are about 1 200 counsel and solicitors participating in the DLS. In the course of proceedings, a litigant usually goes to the Court to see a duty lawyer before the start of hearing at 9 o'clock. The lawyer will then listen to the views of his client in a very short time and may assist the defendant in making a plea of guilt or in mitigation. But the use of this scheme is often confined to enabling a member of the public, after paying a few hundred dollars, to be represented by a lawyer to make a plea in mitigation in court or to decide to plead guilty after being told by the lawyer of the practical outcome of the case. But given that this process lasts only a short time and is conducted in haste, there are concerns or misgivings about whether the client is provided with sufficient legal advice and whether the decision hence made can best protect the legal rights due to him.
Therefore, such a hasty process has made it difficult for duty lawyers to offer the best advice. This is why I consider it necessary to look into whether, for instance, an adjustment should be made to DLS, so that instead of examining a case only in the morning of the day of hearing, an arrangement can be made for 2948 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 the defendant to consider the lawyer's advice at an earlier time and discuss with the lawyer how the case should be proceeded with and what better options are available, thereby protecting the rights of the people in law.
President, I am coming to the end of my speech soon. I also wish to point out that the Democratic Party supports this resolution, and we very much hope that from our speeches on this resolution, Members can see that our focus is how the entire legal aid system currently in force can effectively uphold justice. The upholding of justice should not only be written down on papers. Actually it should also be expressly demonstrated to society at large. Particularly, is the current provision of legal aid, as I have just said, subject to an intangible ceiling, thus causing users of the legal aid service―even people not using this service alike―to feel that there seems to be some problems?
Lastly, it is quite interesting to note that LAD, formerly a responsibility of the Secretary, will come under the charge of Chief Secretary for Administration Matthew CHEUNG later. Is a change in the structure tantamount to independence? I think this may not be sufficient to enable justice to be done in the way it is supposed to be done by legal aid in society. A more effective way is to establish an independent legal aid authority to address the problem. If, after the transfer to the purview of Chief Secretary for Administration Matthew CHEUNG, the Government comes up with some innovative or ground-breaking ideas, certainly we will welcome it, but I think we can further make a judgment only when we see the concrete proposals. If the Government should put forward only old wine in a new bottle, just as it is doing now, thinking that a transfer to the ambit of Chief Secretary Matthew CHEUNG is equivalent to manifesting justice and independence, I believe this is absolutely unconvincing to the people of Hong Kong.
With these remarks, I support the resolution.
(Ms Tanya CHAN stood up)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Tanya CHAN, what is your point?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2949
MS TANYA CHAN (in Cantonese): I request a headcount.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG Chung-tai, please speak.
DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): I believe most Members will find this proposal for adjusting criminal legal aid fees not at all controversial, and it is a proposal to which most of us will agree. However, I wish to point out that this discussion should focus on one point: can the proposed increase in criminal legal aid fees improve the quality of services provided by the Legal Aid Department ("LAD"), so much so that even our deepening worries over certain issues can be allayed? A particular concern of protestors is whether LAD would conduct political censorship when vetting and approving applications for legal aid. If I had the final say on this issue, I would consider it worthwhile if money could buy a politically neutral government department.
In fact, we can note from many cases that LAD these days is criticized not for its indiscriminate granting of legal aid, but for the possible practice of political censorship. Based on the figures I have gathered, for example, about 10 protestors involved in last year's Mong Kok riot applied for legal aid, and all of the applications were rejected by LAD. The only reason given for the rejection was a low chance of winning the cases in question. Another explanation given for not approving the applications was no significant public interest was at stake.
The question, however, is the way in which LAD handles or follows up the means tests and merit tests of applications. Although I concur with what Mr Dennis KWOK said just now, that most of the staff members of LAD are professional and neutral, we feel extremely concerned about the present situation and wonder whether LAD will censor individual cases or individuals concerned due to their political background.
2950 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Why were the applications for legal aid submitted by those involved in the Mong Kok riot all rejected, even though they obviously met the eligibility criteria in terms of financial means? Certainly, the authorities or LAD may respond that there is an appeal mechanism in place. However, I wish to point out that the appeal mechanism for criminal legal aid is entirely different from that for civil legal aid.
Under the appeal mechanism for criminal legal aid, if a client relies on LAD to look for internal legal aid advisers, solicitors or duty lawyers, he will be rejected in nine cases out of ten, according to the statistics kept by me. However, if a client or a protestor who is imprisoned appeals against LAD's decision of rejecting his application, he will have to fund the costs of appointing a lawyer on his own.
The following questions may come up under such circumstances: first, these protestors, being in prison, will not be able to get hold of information and learn about the avenues for or methods of application. Second, applications submitted from prison require the approval of a welfare officer and the relevant conversations conducted or messages relayed have to be done through the officer as well. All this is a form of mental torture to the client. They are, in the process, denied the very right that is fundamental to the people of Hong Kong, i.e. basic treatment of equality before the law.
Some may argue that it is because the advisers, solicitors or counsel within LAD have considered the cases of those clients and deemed their chances of winning their cases not high. This, of course, can happen, but this is also precisely what protestors, especially among those who still wish to put down roots in Hong Kong, find worrying: the possibility that there will be political considerations in the vetting and approval of legal aid applications by LAD in future.
I wish only to point out that, over the past few years and in the last couple of years in particular, the Government and the law enforcement departments (especially the Police), perhaps in face of political turmoil or the row over constitutional reform in Hong Kong, have obviously adopted a high-handed approach to handling demonstrations and protestors where no one is spared or given the benefit of the doubt. In other words, they would arrest everyone involved first and disregard all the other factors.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2951
The extreme case of the Mong Kok riot aside, there were instances where joggers were incriminated and people participating in ordinary demonstrations readily charged for assault on a police officer. In the prevailing political climate, the authorities have adopted a high-handed approach of placing charges first, based on the knowledge that the person concerned lacks the financial means to lodge a complaint. As the oversight of these law enforcement agencies is relatively inadequate, a large number of citizens were prosecuted by the Government for their participation in this kind of demonstrations or just for passing by Mong Kok. To them, the only avenue of protection is the legal aid system which safeguards citizens' access to the assistance and representation by legal advisers and solicitors. Honourable colleagues from the pro-establishment camp, of course, may voice objection, arguing that those arrestees must be protestors, as they, knowing full well that dangers may follow, could choose to hide themselves instead of setting foot outside.
The point I wish to make is that, in view of this political climate and Hong Kong's possible making of a National Anthem Law in future, if protestors are arrested and unable to apply for legal aid …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG Chung-tai, have you misunderstood the question of this debate? This Council is debating the proposed resolution moved under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance.
DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): President, I am stating my case in the debate. There is no mistake. If you wish to be fair in enforcing the rules, you should have stopped all Members speaking before me just now. If it is your request that I come to the question, I can give my conclusion. There is no need for me to spend 15 minutes speaking …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG Chung-tai, you have strayed from the question. Please come back to the subject of the debate.
DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): It seems to me that you have just returned to the Chamber, President. You can rest assured that I will not use up all the 15 minutes of my speaking time.
2952 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
In this political climate, will LAD, a department we believe to be professional and neutral, have political considerations in the vetting and approval of applications? If neutrality could be bought by an adjustment of fees, most people of Hong Kong, I believe, would be willing to pay up. But the problem lies in the political situation we see at the moment. Some may say that protestors deserve to be arrested, and should be prepared for it, for their participation in demonstrations. However, the original spirit of legal aid is equal right for everyone regardless of political background, race and position. This is the spirit of legal aid.
Secondly, I wish to point out that the target of the National Anthem Law, to be enacted in future, may not be protestors, but the ordinary housewives and nannies having dim sum in restaurants. Simply for chuckling when the national anthem is played, they may be incriminated by their facial expressions but are financially unable to engage a lawyer.
President, a Member said "crazy" in his seat.
I wish to point out that this is not an issue that concerns protestors alone. Under this circumstance, there are all the more reasons for us to ponder over the most basic questions: first, should LAD be made an independent statutory body? Second, during the trial―those Members who do not have a clear idea may take a look at the figures in front of you―all applications for legal aid in respect of the Mong Kok riot were rejected, all because they stood a slim chance of prevailing in court. If an applicant is determined by LAD as not likely to win his case but still wishes to appeal the decision, he will have to file an appeal against the LAD's rejection with the High Court and foot the bill himself. But where can he get the money, President?
My conclusion, therefore, is very simple. If political neutrality could be bought with money, most protestors and people of Hong Kong, I believe, would be willing to do so.
I so submit.
MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Cantonese): President, I speak in support of the proposed resolution under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2953
As pointed out by the Secretary for Home Affairs, legal aid is an important part of the legal system in Hong Kong. As we all know, judicial independence and the rule of law are the core values of Hong Kong. The Court must ensure that the rights of all parties involved are properly enforced and protected. Therefore, it must ensure that those who have reasonable grounds to initiate proceedings or defend themselves will not be rendered unable to seek justice due to a lack of financial means. If a person who is neither able to defense himself nor has the means to hire a private counsel for his defence in court, it is hard to imagine what he can do without legal aid service. His legal rights are, of course, not reasonably and fairly treated without legal aid, and as a result, justice cannot be upheld. This is an extremely serious matter.
Therefore, legal aid service is crucial to defending the rule of law in Hong Kong. One can also say that it is the cornerstone of the rule of law and an indispensable element in the legal system in Hong Kong. As we all know, legal aid service is provided by the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") in Hong Kong. Through its in-house lawyers and assigning out cases, LAD provides professional and cost-effective litigation services rendered by counsel or solicitors in civil and criminal proceedings.
(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)
The resolution proposed by the Secretary for Home Affairs currently seeks to amend the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules (Cap. 221 sub. leg. D), taking into account the biennial review of criminal legal aid fees, prosecution fees and duty lawyer fees. It is proposed that criminal legal aid fees be increased by 4% to reflect the accumulated change in the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)") recorded between July 2014 and July 2016. The prosecution fees and duty lawyer fees will be adjusted by administrative means to reflect the 4% change in CPI(C).
Deputy President, as everyone knows, legal proceedings are very costly in Hong Kong. On top of the court fees (which is relatively small in amount), a majority of the expenses is spent on lawyer fees. In legal proceedings in Hong Kong, lawyer fees are generally borne by the losing party. That means the losing party must usually bear the fees of its lawyer as well as the lawyer fees of the winning party. The cost of the decision to initiate proceedings or raise 2954 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 defence in court is thus very high for the general public. Hence, the legal aid service provided by LAD is all the more important. Without it, many grass roots will not consider instituting or participating in any proceedings at all.
To successfully apply for legal aid, one must pass the merits test and the means test. The merits test is more direct in that applicants are required to show reasonable grounds for taking or defending proceedings which are assessed by professionals of LAD. The means test requires that applicants' financial resources do not exceed the financial eligibility limit which is currently HK$290,380 for the Ordinary Legal Aid Scheme and HK$1,451,900 for the Supplementary Legal Aid Scheme.
In criminal proceedings, if an applicant's resources exceed the financial eligibility limit, the Director of Legal Aid may waive the limit if he is satisfied that it is in the interests of justice to do so and subject to payment by the applicant of a contribution on higher rates calculated in accordance with the applicant's financial resources. However, it is, in general, very difficult to have the financial resources limit exempted by the Director of Legal Aid in his discretion and such cases approved are few in number. For that reason, I believe the financial eligibility limit set by LAD has a strong bearing on whether or not applicants can seek justice through legal aid.
Deputy President, the education constituency that I represent has some views on this …
(Dr Helena WONG stood up)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr IP Kin-yuen, please hold on. Dr Helena WONG, what is your point?
DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): I request a headcount.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Helena WONG has requested a headcount.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2955
Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(While the summoning bell was ringing, a number of Members returned to the Chamber but did not return to their seats)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please return to their seats.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr IP Kin-yuen, please continue your speech.
MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, as I said, the education constituency that I represent have some views on this. Since members of the education sector are generally middle-class, they can easily be assessed as ineligible under the current financial limit of less than HK$300,000 which is actually very low. I understand that certain items such as self-occupied property, rent or mortgage repayments and a statutory allowance for one's own living expenses and that of dependants can be deducted. However, the amount of personal allowances deductible from the disposable income is only HK$6,150 monthly for the applicant, HK$10,740 for the applicant and one dependent and HK$15,290 for the applicant and two dependents. The allowance limit is probably too low for those who do not belong to the lowest stratum of society.
A teacher once raised to the Hong Kong Professional Teachers' Union which I represent that too low a financial eligibility limit means too high an application threshold for legal aid, which puts them under great financial pressure when involved in legal proceedings as they are ineligible for legal aid. What sort of concept is the HK$290,000 financial eligibility limit? Or if we look at it from another perspective, is HK$290,000 sufficient for hiring a lawyer?
2956 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Generally speaking, HK$290,000 may be sufficient for simple legal proceedings, but for more complicated cases, the time needed to process information is longer and lawyer fees will be higher. Even if one does have HK$290,000 to spare without affecting his living, the amount is not sufficient for complicated proceedings. We understand that some people who were neither eligible for legal aid nor have the means to hire a lawyer chose self-defence in court. According to government information, about half of the civil proceedings in the District Courts and 30% to 40% in the High Court involved unrepresented litigants. How many of these unrepresented litigants chose self-defence because they were unable to afford private legal services? We are not sure of the exact number, but I believe it is not small. Although the figures I just mentioned were on civil proceedings and we are talking about criminal proceedings today, I believe the figures can serve as useful reference. If litigants can neither afford a lawyer nor apply for legal aid, they can only put up self-defence which places them at a disadvantage in court as they lack the professional knowledge and are not versed in legal proceedings. This is not a situation to which a society upholding the rule of law and justice should remain indifferent.
Certainly, I understand that consideration has to the public coffers as well when determining the financial eligibility limit. A limit set too low may lead to a waste of public funds. But the Government must take the people's affordability into account too. As I have said, lawyer fees are very costly in Hong Kong. Besides, the merits test can serve as a gatekeeper to ensure that applicants without reasonable grounds are not granted legal aid. So, can this means test limit be adjusted? If not, many people who are not in the lowest stratum of society may worry that not all is equal before the law because not all is entitled to equal legal aid protection. Only two groups of people can seek justice through the Court: wealthy people and a small number of grass-roots people who can pass the legal aid application threshold.
Deputy President, the proposed amendment seeks to increase the criminal legal aid fees by about 4%. The current biennial adjustment mechanism makes calculation on the basis of the cumulative increase in CPI(C). As we all know, CPI(C) is compiled by the Census and Statistics Department on basis of the expenditure patterns of households in the relatively high expenditure range to reflect the impact of consumer price inflation on high expenditure households. Is this the best adjustment mechanism which can be used to handle all paid services fairly?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2957
There have been great variations in the rates of past adjustments. For example, CPI(C) increased by 8.3% in 2008; only 1.6% in 2010; 9.3% in 2012 and 7.7% in 2014. In 2016, CPI(C) increased by 4%. We can see that the increase varied from 8.3% to 1.6%, then went up to 9.3% and 7.7% before dropping to 4%. Regardless of the great variations and even the ups and downs, the adjustment is made mechanically solely based on CPI(C) without taking into consideration potential market changes.
In addition, the adjusted fees for solicitors and counsel cover a wide range of tasks, including reading bundles, conferences, court hearing, committal proceedings and defence. The increase rate for all tasks is 4% regardless of the nature and complexity or the seniority and experience of the solicitor or counsel engaged, which we know is a significant factor determining the fees level. Will disregarding these factors wholesale make legal aid service overly standardized and mechanical without considering the actual conditions of the sector? Will that discourage senior practitioners of law from participating in legal aid service as the increase rate does not reflect their experience and seniority? Will that in turn affect the quality of legal aid? I hope my worries are unduly but meanwhile, I also hope the Government will give serious consideration to whether such a fees adjustment mechanism requires any changes and conduct an in-depth review of it in order to come up with a proposal that better dovetails with the actual conditions of the sector and meets people's needs, while being kept within the affordability of the Government.
Deputy President, despite the problems with the current adjustment mechanism that I have just mentioned, for instance, whether the adjustment mechanism is overly mechanical and standardized to the extent that the quality of legal aid will be affected, and whether LAD can obtain the best legal services, I do hope that my worries are excessive and that the quality of legal aid will be not affected. Although I think support can still be rendered to this proposed resolution, I hope the Government can conduct a comprehensive review of the problems mentioned by me as I hope that legal aid service can be rendered in the best way. Before that, overall I support the proposed resolution which seeks to increase the lawyer fees based on the biennial review of criminal legal aid fees, prosecution fees and duty lawyer fees. I so submit.
2958 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I rise to speak in support of this amendment. Earlier on, I heard Secretary LAU Kong-wah say with relief that he needed not listen to Members' speeches anymore after listening to them on this occasion as he could pass the task over to the Chief Secretary for Administration. But I hope that he, after listening to Members' speeches, can actually introduce some fundamental changes to the legal aid system before passing the task over to Chief Secretary Matthew CHEUNG.
As regards the adjustments to the legal aid fees this time around, we will certainly raise no objection. This biennial review proposes a 4% increase to the fees, taking into account changes in the Consumer Price Index (C). I recall that this Council has previously conducted two rounds of discussions on requests for additional funding in the Finance Committee, which mainly concerned adjustments to judicial pay and increased flexibility in the housing allowance provided for Judges at the Court of First Instance of the High Court level and above who would be allowed to purchase flats. The Government's view at that time was that the Judiciary had difficulty attracting and retaining experienced and quality judicial officers to serve as Judges of the Court of First Instance or the Court of Appeal of the High Court, etc., and whenever a request for additional manpower for the Judiciary was submitted to the Finance Committee, it would normally be supported by all Members of the Legislative Council. Also, the Government is able to present a convincing justification, pointing out that generous remuneration and benefits should be offered in order to attract the personnel required.
Nevertheless, in terms of legal aid, the Government seems to have given it less favourable treatment and failed to put forward any view that we consider truly constructive to the issue. But this does not indicate a shortage of lawyers participating in the legal aid schemes presently. There is a considerable number of lawyers participating in both the civil and criminal legal aid schemes. But such lawyers participating in the schemes have aired a great deal of grievances, claiming that the increase in the criminal legal aid fees over the years has failed to catch up with the actual fees that they can charge. I reckon most solicitors or counsel accepting legal aid assignments are not money-oriented because the legal aid fees can never compare to their income in private practice. I have sufficient grounds to believe that the reason for their participation in the schemes is their belief and hope that Hong Kong can have a fair, impartial, open and reasonable legal aid system, which is vitally important.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2959
We have long been worrying that our judicial system and the rule of law will be affected, and seen hundreds of people face criminal charges laid by the authorities in the past several conflicts. Certainly, I do not deny that for some cases, there are sufficient grounds for prosecution. But for many more cases, the facts have not come to light, and some people were even arrested by the Police just because it so happened that they walked past the scene of confrontation. In order for justice to be done, instead of empty talk, sufficient vehicles should be made available for the prosecuted to get assistance. Criminal prosecution cases can hardly be settled by self-defence unless everyone is smart and well versed in law or has become a veteran as a result of repeated prosecutions. Certainly, some friends of ours have been repeatedly arrested by the Police for engaging in resistance over the years. The reason for them to opt for self-defence is their consideration that they have sufficient grounds and experience to defend themselves. But this is not the case for the majority public. Hence, criminal legal aid is an indispensable vehicle for justice to be done in the judicial system, and this is also vastly different from the Mainland system. There are a large number of human rights activists on the Mainland, including lawyer JIANG Tianyong, who was given a jail term of two years by the Changsha Intermediate People's Court yesterday. He is in real misery for he enjoys no personal rights, and his defence lawyer is also picked by the Communist Party of China. The last thing I wish to see is a gradually "Mainlandized" Hong Kong, with neither legal aid nor the right to choice of lawyers.
Nevertheless, when the power of legal aid to offer actual assistance grows weaker and weaker, or when such fees fail to retain quality solicitors or counsel, we cannot guarantee that after some time, we will not see a diminishing number of lawyers who are still willing to work pro bono. In that case, we should examine whether the existing legal aid fees are sufficient. The existing mechanism is rather simple. Many measures of the Government draw reference to the Consumer Price Index, such as the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance ("CSSA") Scheme, the housing allowances for CSSA recipients, the Training Subsidy and the Tertiary Student Finance Scheme―Publicly-funded Programmes. But the largest shortcoming is their not being commensurate with the actual expenses. In fact, legal expenditure is considerable.
Recently, I have learnt a piece of interesting news about the possible departure of the incumbent Secretary for Justice Rimsky YUEN to resume his former practice as a private barrister. It transpires that the monthly rental of his office in Admiralty seems to be as high as some $100,000 to $200,000, i.e. some 2960 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
$2 million a year. I certainly hope that Secretary for Justice Rimsky YUEN will still be happy to offer assistance and accept legal aid assignments when he becomes a "million counsel" or "ten million counsel" in the future. But to a "star counsel" who needs to pay such a big bill, and given the current daily legal aid fee of some $15,000 payable to him, even if he agrees to accept such assignments once or twice, I really dare not assert whether he will still accept such pay-per-use arrangement on a continued basis in future. Nevertheless, when studying an increase in judicial pay, why did we not compare the packages for Judges with the current level? I am not saying that they should be on par with each other. But according to the Administration's paper, the packages for Judges of the Court of Final Appeal or the Court of Appeal are determined with reference drawn to the current earnings level of their counterparts in private practice, but at a discount. Have we conducted a relatively fair review in good faith and all conscience of the legal aid fees and the actual fees currently charged by solicitors and counsel in private practice? If not, the amendments to legal aid fees this time around will be unfair.
Another point I wish to raise is that apart from criminal legal aid, the duty lawyer fees have not been reviewed for 20 years either. In fact, the current demand is huge. Some 6 000 to 7 000 cases were served in the past 2013 alone. While this kind of publicly-funded duty lawyer service has a waiting time of as long as eight weeks, it only offers a half-an-hour service session. I do not know what good the half-an-hour session serves, but many people have indicated that it has fallen far short of their expectations. I do not wish to see such treatment of people in need of legal advice by the Government because in the cases we have come across, most legal aid applicants seeking free legal advice service are those at the bottom of society. Frankly, those who can afford it simply will not apply for legal aid and put up with the lengthy vetting and approval procedure, and most people with financial means will pay for legal assistance out of their own pocket to get everything done. But unfortunately, those who have to face such civil and especially criminal cases are mostly the grass roots. There is nothing really special about the nature of their cases. We know some newspapers stall operators who have purchased illicit cigarettes out of inadvertence and consequently been charged with the offence of selling duty-not-paid cigarettes.
I have personally handled two cases which obliged me to engage in deep thoughts. In the first case, the member of the public in question was a beautician working in a beauty salon. Her employer, the boss of the beauty salon, facing a count of practising medicine without a licence, passed the buck LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2961 entirely to her by some means. She had neither the financial means nor resources to engage a barrister out of her own pocket. But her boss with financial means could engage those renowned solicitors and counsel. Consequently, she was offered the duty lawyer service only on the morning of her scheduled court appearance.
Secretary, you can also imagine the plight she was in. Scheduled to appear before court on that afternoon, she could only meet with her duty lawyer on the same morning, leaving her exceedingly helpless and disappointed. In my office, she together with her husband and family told me in tears that they were at their wit's end. She was scheduled to appear before court the following week, but arranged to meet with the duty lawyer only on the date of her court appearance. With this case before us, I am afraid if we still claim that Hong Kong has a fair and impartial judicial system which upholds the rule of law, it will just be a joke.
Legal aid is particularly important to the disadvantaged groups. And to give the matter its fair deal, legal aid provided by the Government is particularly important to many people including foreign domestic helpers, the ethnic minorities and those at the bottom of society.
The second case is a medical incident that I have come across personally. The unborn child of the couple in the case was certified dead. Hoping to get justice done, they attempted to seek justice from the Hospital Authority and the hospital through legal aid. In the end, having gone through almost a year of ordeal and numerous examinations, they got the reply that they were not eligible for it. Most important of all, their application was rejected not on grounds relating to the merits of the case, but that their income might not meet the requirement. If they wish to have the costs expended on their behalf by legal aid which are to be deducted from the damages recovered by agreement between both parties, given that such an application is subject to further examination, vetting and approval will take even longer.
Deputy President, such cases are daily occurrences, and under the judicial system, particularly when facing criminal prosecution, they are even more marginalized. With blocked access to sufficient legal advice and assistance, they are rendered unable to protect themselves, and there is a high chance that they will be subject to unfair treatment in the near term.
2962 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
For those knowledgeable individuals, i.e. people who have legal knowledge, or comrades in our party such as Ms Tanya CHAN, who is a barrister, they will know how to defend themselves in such a situation. But we can see that many people are in abject misery. They have been arrested and thrown into jail, whose repeated attempts to appeal have all ended in failure.
While we are still claiming that Hong Kong is a place which upholds the rule of law and talking about the assistance we have given to those in need, the exiting legal aid system, its compensation system and the free legal advice system are actually fraught with flaws and loopholes, which have rendered them unable to assist the large number of people in need and caused many solicitors or counsel to back away. I hope the amendment introduced by the Government this time around is just the beginning, and better reforms will continue to come along gradually later on (The buzzer sounded) … so that Hong Kong people will receive genuine legal aid.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK Ka-ki, your speaking time is up.
DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I rise to speak in support of the proposed resolution under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance.
The proposed resolution seeks to adjust criminal legal aid fees upward by 4% to reflect the accumulated changes in the Consumer Price Index(C) ("CPI(C)") recorded from 2014 to 2016.
Prosecution fees and duty lawyer fees will be adjusted by administrative means to reflect the 4% increase in CPI(C).
Deputy President, I wish to continue speaking, yet I noted that a quorum is not present in the Chamber. I request a headcount.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Helena WONG has requested a headcount.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2963
Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Helena WONG, please continue your speech.
DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I continue to speak in support of the proposed resolution.
Hong Kong is a society that upholds the rule of law. Every person is equal before the law and it is the core value Hong Kong highly cherishes. Therefore, a policy arrangement of legal aid is put in place under the legal system of Hong Kong, the objective of which is to ensure that all those who comply with the regulations of the Legal Aid Ordinance and have reasonable grounds for pursuing or defending a legal action in the Courts of Hong Kong will not be denied access to justice due to a lack of means, such as poverty or inability to meet legal costs.
I believe the Deputy President and I are both very much concerned about sexual violence victims. Some non-governmental organizations ("NGOs"), such as Rainlily, provide one-stop services to assist such victims. Rainlily receives a lot of requests for assistance. Basically, the victims of many cases are women. When they are sexually harassed or assaulted, who would fight for justice for them? Most of the time, these NGOs need legal assistance in their intervention. Given the difficulty in finding lawyers working pro bono, currently such NGOs only make referrals when assistance seekers request pro bono legal services.
To give an example, last year Rainlily handled about 250 requests for assistance relating to sexual assaults, in a quarter (59 cases) of which the assistance seekers spontaneously requested legal advice or legal aid and among these cases, 30% involved information of legal proceedings. For example, assistance seekers wanted to know what preparations they should make before filing a police report, or, if they did not want to be directly interrogated, whether they could be protected from secondary victimization. They can apply to the 2964 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
Judges and request a screen to be placed so as not to face the offenders direct. But such requests have to be made through an application and not anyone can casually fill in a form to do so.
Moreover, among the requests for assistance handled by Rainlily last year, 30% involved civil proceedings, including applications for legal aid. Many victims find the legal aid forms very complicated and difficult to fill in, and this deters people from making applications. I am not sure if the Secretary will consider releasing a simplified version of the form so that people without legal training can easily understand and fill in the form themselves. If people cannot understand the complicated form and thus fail to apply for legal aid, they cannot seek justice through the legal system.
The Legal Aid Department ("LAD") requires applicants to submit documents which can be obtained only through application to government departments, indirectly posing many obstacles to people with a low level of education or the grass roots. Generally when making applications, the grass roots find it difficult to write application letters in legal parlance. They probably do not quite know how to write letters or find the letters they have written incoherent that no one would understand them. Therefore, to my understanding, no assistance seekers can easily complete the form on their own without help.
I believe the Deputy President or many Honourable colleagues who were returned through direct elections and run ward offices have similar experiences of many people approaching them to enquire about free or pro bono legal advice services. In my constituency, some residents needing legal advice―for various matters such as filling in forms or applying for legal aid―come to my ward office and seek assistance. So, I am not a lawyer, I need to consult one before I can help them. In fact, Members' ward offices have gradually become District Offices of the Home Affair Department to take on the responsibility of the work of many government departments. Therefore, I consider it necessary to review the entire system.
Returning to Rainlily, which has expressed grave concern about the proposed resolution, it stated that it has received requests for assistance from female victims of rape in recent years who claimed that, after filing a police report and during the course of giving a statement, they were asked by police officers about their past sexual experiences and whether they have had an abortion, etc. Such victims thought they had to answer all the questions asked LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2965 by police officers during the taking of a statement and so gave answers to whatever questions. But after going back home they became very scared and regretful. Why? They were afraid that the defence, after reading the statements, will disclose their personal sexual experiences when cross examining them in court, causing them to feel ashamed. Many victims do not know that, in giving a statement for sex crimes or rape cases, they are not required to make known their sexual experiences or sexual history. During statement taking, when police officers ask such questions, they can refuse to answer them. Moreover, they often suffer from mood swings and are sleepless every night. Some victims even said that they would carry with them a razor blade to court and if they are asked such sensitive personal information, they would immediately commit suicide in court. Such cases have come to our attention.
(Mr Paul TSE stood up)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Helena WONG, please pause for a while. Mr Paul TSE, what is your point?
MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): We are discussing criminal legal aid fees.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr TSE, you have raised a point of order to point out that Dr WONG has digressed from the subject.
MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, she has strayed too far from it …
DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): Deputy President …
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr WONG, please hold on. The debate started at around 1:30 pm and has continued for over five hours. You are the 15th Member speaking. Previously I have reminded Members that the object of the proposed resolution is simply to adjust the three fees upwards by 4% with 2966 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 reference drawn to the changes in CPI(C). Members should focus on debating this subject but not the entire legal aid system. Dr WONG, please focus your discussion on the contents of the proposed resolution.
DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): Okay. Thank you, Deputy President.
Actually I have not heard many Members refer to the experiences of Rainlily. In fact, it is a very good example that sheds light on the predicament faced by the grass roots or victims of sexual violence and aids our understanding. I have just cited some examples. Recently, I have visited persons in custody because they complained about being sexually harassed by other inmates while in custody. But it is obvious that they have not received adequate legal assistance in prisons. Even if they file a police report, after the investigation is completed, the result is no assistance can be afforded to them. For this reason, we need to find a way to help such disadvantaged people.
At present, the Government actually does not provide legal aid for persons arrested or detained who cannot afford the lawyer fees. Though the Home Affairs Bureau has proposed an outline of some pilot schemes, no implementation timetable and details have been given. I hope the Secretary can respond to this point later on the provision of appropriate legal aid to persons arrested or detained who cannot afford the lawyer fees.
Deputy President, I come back to the proposed resolution. As a matter of fact, the authorities significantly increased the criminal legal aid fees in 2015-2016 to reflect the rise in lawyer fees over the years. However, the authorities have not seriously reviewed duty lawyer fees for 20 years. I think some Honourable colleagues may understand this but people may not have a clear idea of this matter. Legal aid and the Duty Lawyer Service ("DLS") are two separate subsidy programmes. LAD is a government department under the Home Affairs Bureau which provides legal aid directly in the District Courts, the High Court and the Court of Final Appeal. LAD will not provide legal representation for people in the Magistrates' Courts but can provide legal representation and aid for people in civil proceedings. DLS is rendered by the Hong Kong Bar Association and The Law Society of Hong Kong in a form similar to NGOs. It receives funding from the Home Affairs Bureau to provide legal representation and aid in all Magistrates' Courts, Juvenile Courts and the Coroner's Court.
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In the past 20 years, duty lawyer fees have only been adjusted in accordance with CPI. Currently there are about 1 200 counsel and solicitors on the list of duty lawyers who take turns to be duty lawyers. They are on duty once or twice every month, or once every two or three months. In the morning on the trial day, the duty lawyer meets with the defendants to discuss their cases. The office of the duty lawyer opens at 9:00 am and the duty lawyer has to meet with different defendants before the court session begins at 10:00 am. The duty lawyer is required to understand the cases and read the charge sheets, summaries of facts and statements within a short period of time, then explain to the defendants the charges and how the Magistrates will hand down judgment, while also learning if the defendants will plead guilty or not. Therefore, to handle the work of a few cases within a few hours, to many duty lawyers, essentially means finishing reading all documents in a few minutes and then meeting with the defendants as soon as possible to give them legal advice. Therefore, the job is really difficult to be done well, unless with the participation of senior solicitors or counsel. Highly experienced, the latter can pinpoint the problem just at a glance. Moreover, the number of duty lawyers needs to be increased to enhance the quality of legal assistance services. Yet duty lawyer fees are seriously detached from the market, failing to attract the participation of more senior solicitors or counsel. Should the Government not review the levels of duty lawyer fees instead of making adjustments solely on basis of the increase in CPI, which is the current practice? Otherwise, it is difficult to attract more senior solicitors or counsel to join the service.
Deputy President, you may also know the amount of fee for working as a duty lawyer for one day. The fee currently offered by the Government is $7,500 daily. Certainly to the grass roots, $7,500 is an enormous amount. But in fact, it is difficult to hire more senior solicitors or counsel to be duty lawyers at such a level of fees because their fees at market rate are usually $4,000 to $5,000 per hour. Honourable colleagues can calculate the amount for working as a duty lawyer charging the market rate of fees. It is several tens of thousands of dollars a day. However, the Government is paying $7,500, thus making it difficult for DLS to hire senior counsel or solicitors. It is simply because of their ideal to help people that they temporarily put their own job aside and assume the role of duty lawyers.
From 2015 to 2017, on average approximately over 25 000 defendants were given legal representation by DLS every year. The actual number in 2015 was over 26 000, indicating people's huge demand for it. But we notice now the 2968 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 subsidy is indeed too low. Last year, the Legislative Council approved the increase in criminal legal aid fee for counsel by 50%; the fee was increased from $1,530 per hour to $2,300 per hour. The criminal legal aid fee for solicitors was also increased by 25% from $800 per hour to $1,000 per hour. However, duty lawyer fees are adjusted only on basis of the changes in CPI(C). Since 1997, the Government has not reviewed whether the fee level is reasonable.
Deputy President, I so submit and hope the Government will conduct a review.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Honourable Members, the debate commenced at around 1:30 pm and has hitherto lasted for over five hours. I have heard the following arguments presented by Members: one, the legal aid system is very important and a necessary arrangement to manifest the justice in the judicial system; second, the legal aid system must be reviewed; third, the lawyer fees offered by the legal aid system are a far cry from the market rates; fourth, the legal aid system or free legal advice service currently provided by the Home Affairs Bureau is inadequate; and fifth, it is necessary to review the problems with the existing legal aid system, including the issue of filling in forms as suggested by Dr Helena WONG just now.
Will Members please note that as the Council has been debating the proposed resolution for over five hours, those Members who intend to speak next and on the salient points just mentioned by me should make them as succinct as possible and avoid making repetitions, otherwise I will enforce Rule 45(1) of the Rules of Procedure.
MS TANYA CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I am not going to speak at great length because other Members from my party, with legal background or otherwise, have already fully explained the problems of, or improvements that can be made to, the existing legal aid system or Duty Lawyer Service ("DLS").
During the past debates held by this Council on similar issues, such as the one on the Energy Efficiency (Labelling of Products) Ordinance last week, many Members would take the opportunity to advise the Government what improvement measures it should take in respect of the existing system. I remember that last week, apart from the discussion on extending the types of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2969 electrical appliances covered by the labelling scheme, this Council also advanced its views on smart city, in the hope that the entire development will move forward as a whole.
Hence, the main contents of the speech I have prepared will not repeat the background and conditions mentioned by Honourable colleagues just now. Dr Helena WONG has also clearly explained the service provided by duty lawyers. I am not on the list of legal aid lawyers, but I will go to the Magistrates' Courts to provide service under DLS about once a year because, besides considering this service as my responsibility, I wish to take this opportunity to learn about the difficulties faced by solicitors, counsel or members of the public (i.e. defendants). Frankly, I understand very well the work pressure faced by Duty Lawyers Offices. These offices do not have much manpower. But when we discuss duty lawyers, solicitors … Deputy President, when I had just joined the Legislative Council as a Member, I once handled 10-odd cases alone. I do not wish to describe myself as a female garment worker behind a sewing machine, but I must handle the cases swiftly within a short time. Every day, there are not many lawyers on duty, but a large number of documents and cases need to be handled right away. In particular, when a certain law enforcement agency such as the Immigration Department has just arrested a large group of non-Hong Kong residents breaching the conditions of stay, the work in the Court will be very busy that day. First of all, since it is a new case, everything must be handled by the Magistrate's Court first, and the staff in the office will have to deal with it immediately, too. At the same time, the Immigration Department also needs to deal with the persons concerned.
I have also seen such a situation in which the staff responsible for providing duty lawyer service were originally prepared to deal with certain cases, but all of a sudden, they have to face a large number of new cases, while the lawyers also have to deal with plenty of documents and meet with clients unexpectedly. Certainly, in recent years, we have seen improvement to the relevant situation in some measure, and the number of pending cases has also decreased. Sometimes, for example, when a lawyer works for a trial in a court other than Court No. 1, if his client pleads guilty or some other things happen, then he will have no need to continue to deal with the case originally arranged for him. Hence, he may go to Court No. 1 to handle a new case.
The situation has been improved, but as pointed out by Dr Helena WONG just now, the work is actually carried out in a rush. Sometimes it also depends on the availability of solicitors or counsel who can assist in handling the 2970 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 numerous cases. In this regard, I have seen improvement in recent years. However, as we all know―and I have been a duty lawyer myself―despite the increase in fees for these lawyers, can such fees catch up with those charged by lawyers for undertaking cases in private practice? I believe there is still a wide gap. Some Honourable colleagues also spoke on this just now.
However, Deputy President, I must talk about the scope of services covered by legal aid. Although it was mentioned by some Honourable colleagues just now, the Deputy President may not have paid too much attention to this point. Regarding the importance of providing assistance to detainees in police stations, I wish to speak on it as someone who has had such experience.
As Members know, I have been arrested before. Actually, I was not supposed to be arrested. Neither was I arrested by appointment. Rather, I was invited by the Police to assist in the investigation. It happened in January 2015. As we all know, since the Umbrella Movement had taken place, a group of people had to go to the police station to assist in the investigation, and I was the first one who arrived at the police station at that time. I believe there was no way the police officers did not know about my legal background. I had also requested the company of my lawyer. At that time my legal representative spoke in English. Moreover, we had all along exchanged correspondence with the Police in English to fix the meeting time. Since my status was not an arrestee, I was supposed to be someone assisting in the police investigation when I arrived at the police station. However, upon arrival at the police station, we found that the Police were unable to provide on-site interpretation service. For this reason, after waiting for a while, my lawyer told the Police that we wished to leave the police station temporarily and suggested that the Police tell us to return to the police station after arranging for an on-site interpreter. However, the police officers became rather nervous at that time, indicating that they had to arrest and caution me immediately. This point was mentioned by some Members just now. Most importantly, being someone with legal background, I requested to meet my lawyer alone after being cautioned, and as we all know, this is the people's right. Yet to my surprise, my request was rejected by the Police.
This experience made me feel that the scope of legal aid or DLS should be expanded to cover detainees in police stations. I consider this very important. When members of the public watch the television, they may often hear this line, but they may not know the importance of this statement of caution. In fact, when someone is arrested and cautioned by the Police, he must be careful about LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2971 his words because what he say may be adduced as evidence in court. However, very often, members of the public merely treat it as a clichéd line in television dramas which is no big deal. They also think they are very clear about their own rights, but this may not be the case actually.
Come to think about it. Being someone with legal background, I requested to meet my lawyer alone but was surprisingly rejected by the Police. I also requested to see my lawyer before being searched. Again, my request was rejected by the Police. I was even requested to sign the "Notice to Persons under Investigation by, or Detained in the Custody of, the Police" (i.e. Pol. 153) in the absence of any lawyer. This is an extremely important document, but my request for meeting with my lawyer was still rejected by the Police. We can imagine, if an ordinary citizen who has no legal background at all runs into such a situation, what can he do? Can his legal rights be protected? In my personal opinion, this is a very serious issue. Certainly, some other things happened afterwards.
We see that the adjustment made after this review is not great, since the adjustments on the last two occasions were bigger than this one. As pointed out by some Honourable colleagues, the adjustments made in the reviews in 2008 and 2012 were greater than this one, and so was the adjustment in 2014, though it can be said that an adjustment has indeed been made this time. However, should the Government continue to draw reference to the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)")? Deputy President, I wonder if you know that the office operation expenses reimbursement for Members, adjusted in accordance with CPI(C) this year, has only been slightly increased by less than 2%. But the remunerations for the colleagues in our offices cannot be increased by only 2%. Hence, similarly, we are facing immense difficulties. I know the other Honourable colleagues will follow up this issue in the Council. In fact, they have all along been fighting for adjustments to remunerations not based on CPI(C).
Although some Honourable colleagues mentioned just now that the ball is no longer in Secretary LAU Kong-wah's court now, I hope Secretary LAU Kong-wah can take this opportunity to relay our concern. More importantly, I hope the Secretaries of Departments will be directly informed of the present situation, and to a certain extent, I consider that the staff of the Duty Lawyer Offices should receive appropriate assistance. I so submit.
2972 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Andrew WAN, please speak.
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): I request a headcount.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Andrew WAN has requested a headcount.
Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Andrew WAN, please speak.
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I rise to speak in support of the proposed resolution moved under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance.
In engaging lawyers in private practice to undertake the litigation work of criminal legal aid cases, Deputy President, the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") at present remunerates them according to the counsel and solicitor fees stipulated in the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules (Cap. 221D). I shall be brief, Deputy President, as many Honourable colleagues have already covered this earlier on.
LAD's fee scale is clear and detailed, including different fees payable for criminal cases undertaken in the various levels of Court. Those fees, as many Honourable colleagues pointed out just now, have not seen any increase for 19 years and are relatively low at the present levels. As Members are on the same page on this issue, we will support the proposed resolution.
I find it a good thing that the criminal legal aid fees in question are reviewed biennially on a regular basis. Indeed, the adjustments of fees have been suffering a serious lag due to the absence of a regularized handling mechanism in the past. The proposed adjustments have taken into account of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2973 changes in Consumer Price Index (C) between July 2014 and July 2016, arriving at an upward adjustment of 4%. Though fee levels are still too low, honestly, Deputy President, the biennial review of fees represents a step forward nonetheless.
(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)
President, I wish to raise a few issues that are of particular concern to me. First, the entire criminal legal aid system, including legal aid services offered abroad, is in need of further review. We all agree to the principle that criminal legal aid fees for engaging counsel and solicitors should be used primarily to help ordinary grass-roots citizens with financial difficulties to seek justice through the Courts. Various Members have mentioned this point, as I heard just now, and no objection has been raised.
However, Hong Kong's criminal legal aid at present applies only to criminal cases within Hong Kong. As even Members of the establishment camp have also noticed, Mr James TO, my party comrade, has taken on a number of criminal cases abroad. Even Mr Paul TSE, who entered the Chamber just now, has rendered assistance to some such cases, as far as I know. The deficiency of the existing system is evident during the process where these cases―generally more serious in nature―are not entitled to legal aid since they took place overseas. From what we have seen, these cases often involve drugs, and grass-roots citizens committing offenses out of momentary greed in some cases. In some of the cases we have handled, the clients, who were not of a high education level, thought they had landed a great job that only involved bringing some parallel goods. Little did they know that the object they helped brought and looked nothing out of ordinary in fact had drugs hidden inside it, thus unknowingly getting themselves caught on the wrong side of the law.
As Members must know, the smuggling and possession of drugs are serious criminal offences punishable by severe penalties especially in many Southeast Asian countries and capital punishment is still enforced in individual countries. We are therefore quite concerned that there would be grave consequences if some citizens of Hong Kong were unfairly denied access to assistance of legal resources.
2974 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
From the many cases we have seen, carrying even a small quantity of drugs might incur severe penalties, according to the local laws of Southeast Asian countries such as Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines. Take Indonesia as an example, President. Carrying just 5g of drugs is punishable by life imprisonment or up to 20 years of imprisonment. The consequence is even more dire if drug trafficking is involved with a possible sentence to death―capital punishment is still enforced over there.
In this connection, President, we find the legal aid system deficient and failing to offer great protection to Hong Kong citizens. I wish to mention one more case to which public attention has been particularly drawn at the moment. Before coming to the Chamber, I saw from Facebook that some members of the public were offering their solidarity on a dedicated web page for four Hong Kong citizens recently arrested in the Philippines. Members perhaps would recall that they were operating a fishing vessel with drugs hidden in it. To Hong Kong citizens suffering injustice or being tangled up in criminal prosecution proceedings and awaiting legal outcomes in these Southeast Asian countries, there are the problem of language barrier on the one hand, and the complete ignorance of the local legal system on the other …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Andrew WAN, you have strayed from the subject. Please speak on the question of the motion.
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): President, I was explaining just now why a further reform should be made by the authorities to legal aid service for cases overseas.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Council is now debating the proposed resolution under the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017 whose various amendments are already spelt out clearly in the amendment rules. Please come back to the subject of the debate.
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): Thank you, President, for the reminder. I reckon that since we support the Government's proposed resolution, I wish to take this opportunity to raise the issue of legal aid for cases happening overseas, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2975 hoping that the authorities can make some improvements after hearing my speech. I will briefly say a few words before wrapping up this point, President. I will cite one more example without dwelling on the Philippines case, President.
Some countries now help their nationals to obtain legal aid overseas, examples of which include the Philippines and Mexico. Mexico, in particular, actively assists their nationals facing death penalty in the United States in obtaining legal assistance. Such efforts include the establishment of the Mexican Capital Legal Assistance Program, which is an official legal aid agency; the Philippines Government too has measures offering similar help to nationals overseas. I feel obliged to point this out since the proposed resolution apparently fails to address this issue. I very much concur with the remark frequently made by President XI Jinping at international forums: the Chinese Government attaches great importance to the personal safety of nationals abroad. There are no reasons why we should not consider further improvement to the legal aid system on this count.
President, another issue I wish to talk about briefly is the discrepancies between fees payable to lawyers engaged by LAD and those engaged by the Department of Justice ("DoJ"), which concern fees, President. As a matter of fairness, LAD will adjust the fees for legal aid lawyers to avoid inconsistencies with those payable to lawyers engaged by DoJ. However, I notice that in undertaking cases in the Magistrates' Courts, counsel or solicitors engaged by DoJ are entitled to conference fee and pre-trial review fee, while those engaged by LAD for members of the public are not. This is, to me, a bit odd and in need of a review.
In addition, President, I wish to make some comments on the expeditious review of the Duty Lawyer Service. In light of the adjustments of fees for lawyers undertaking criminal legal aid cases, the Home Affairs Bureau will adjust the duty lawyer fees by the same percentage. However, it is a well-known fact that duty lawyers are remunerated with extremely low fees tantamount to those received by a junior lawyer, which I find most unfair. As a matter of fact, in the course of assisting in some cases where LAD's services were sought, we have come across some senior lawyers offering services. Although they are noble at heart and pure of intention in helping the public, it is only right, I think, that they should be remunerated fairly.
2976 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017
The last point I wish to make, President, concerns the independence of the legal aid system. In the 2017 Policy Address, the Chief Executive mentioned that the Administration would implement the Legal Aid Services Council's proposal to transfer the responsibilities of formulating the legal aid policy and managing LAD from the Home Affairs Bureau to the Chief Secretary for Administration's Office to underline the independence of the legal aid system. I have pondered this over and over without understanding how the new structure could lend independence to the system. It is no more than a transfer of responsibilities from the purview of one official to another, who may be more senior in rank or has broader exposure in terms of policy portfolio. How does this have to do with independence? We remain convinced that, in order to truly underline the independence of the legal aid system, LAD should be made independent. I hope the authorities will conduct a review in this respect.
I so submit. Thank you, President.
MR SHIU KA-CHUN (in Cantonese): President, I rise to speak in support of the motion moved by the Secretary for Home Affairs: "Resolved that the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017, made by the Criminal Procedure Rules Committee on 2 May 2017, be approved".
Speaking of legal aid, I recall my experience of serving as a social worker. People know that I am a social worker, but perhaps not too many of them know that I started my career as an outreach social worker. I remember my days of being an outreach social worker some 20 years ago. At that time one of my main duties was to accompany young offenders to appear in court. The work in that period was very important. In particular, we can imagine a grass-roots youngster appearing in court for the very first time. On the one hand, neither he nor his family members have sufficient knowledge of law. On the other, he has to face the cold space in the courtroom. In fact, he is full of fears in his mind. Even though I am a social worker, I have to admit that no matter how I try my best to provide my client with emotional support, I can never compare with a competent lawyer who can offer appropriate and accurate legal advice because my client has really entered the legal proceedings. His worries cannot be relieved by company alone. There are a lot of rights in law and decisions which he needs to know and understand.
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However, I often saw two phenomena from the young people and lawyers in court. All along, there has been such hearsay in the community―I am only saying this is hearsay in the community―that legal aid lawyers are usually lousier and more laid-back. So very often, their support cannot give their clients confidence. Actually, such a remark is unfair to many lawyers. I have certainly seen some laid-back lawyers, but I have seen more dedicated and responsible lawyers. In my view, such public misunderstanding about duty lawyers is unfair. After all, lawyers are hamstrung by the system. The Government's fee system has placed duty lawyers and applicants for legal aid in an unfair position. Some duty lawyers actually hate working as duty lawyers because they think they have no other choice but to do it. Some may even serve as duty lawyers with bitter tears, considering themselves enduring a hard time, leading to such an outcome which is unfair to the applicants for legal aid. The problem with the service quality of duty lawyers actually originates from the contradictions and unfairness of the fee system.
President, the Basic Law safeguards the independent judicial power for the people. Article 25 of the Basic Law stipulates: "All Hong Kong residents shall be equal before the law." Article 35 stipulates: "Hong Kong residents shall have the right to confidential legal advice, access to the courts, choice of lawyers for timely protection of their lawful rights and interests". Article 38 also stipulates: "Hong Kong residents shall enjoy the other rights and freedoms safeguarded by the laws of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region." These three provisions have expressly prescribed the legal protection to which Hong Kong residents are entitled. The Government is also duty-bound to ensure that legal proceedings are fair, impartial, open and transparent.
President, we often hear people say that the law is a game for the rich, but I hold that legal aid is exactly disproof of this remark. Legal aid is protection for the grass roots who lack financial means. However, its harsh approval criteria have caused many members of the public to appear in court without any legal representation. For this reason, its effectiveness has been called into question. According to the figures of the Legal Aid Department ("LAD"), in 2016 it received a total of 14 733 applications in respect of civil cases, but only 6 878 legal aid certificates were granted. The number of cases not approved is 6 080. The number of applications received in respect of criminal cases was 3 567, and the total number rejected was 842. Certainly, LAD has the duty to keep the gate properly against abuse of resources, but its criteria of vetting and approval have all along been criticized by many Members and the media.
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The fees for legal aid lawyers are determined not according to the lawyers' usual fee rates. Instead, they follow the scale of fees in the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules, in which the fees payable to solicitors and counsel are set out according to the types of work and court levels involved in the cases. The cap on the fees will not be adjusted in light of qualifications, experience, ability, etc. Hence, even if a seasoned practitioner with many years of experience undertakes a legal aid case, basically he can only charge his fees according to the scale of fees, and his fees cannot exceed the upper limit. Take, for example, a legal aid lawyer who needs to represent the defendant and act as advocate in a District Court. Suppose the proceedings of the case takes a total of four days from the plea, trial to sentence, and the duration of the lawyer's preparatory work does not exceed the limit of eight hours, then in that case, this lawyer can charge the maximum fee. Specifically, the hourly rate of the lawyer at the preparation stage of the case is about $1,260. Suppose the plea and sentence each take half a day and the trial takes two days, then the maximum hourly rate for the days of attendance in court is about $1,800. So on average, the maximum hourly rate for the whole case is $1,680. In comparison, for a lawyer with five years' experience undertaking a civil case in a District Court, even if he is simply responsible for doing preparatory work for the case to facilitate the counsel's attendance in court, he can already charge an hourly rate of $1,600 to $2,000 according to the standard costs rate.
In reality, a District Court case rarely takes only four days to complete the proceedings from the plea, trial to sentence. The more complicated the case is, the longer time it will take, and there may even be the need to engage a counsel to jointly handle the case. It is not inconceivable that if the case is more controversial and time-consuming, the gap between the legal aid fee rates and the fee rates in the market will be greater, and more manpower and resources will be contributed by the participating lawyers at their own expense. In other words, the existing scale of fees for criminal legal aid actually does not encourage capable and experienced lawyers to participate and assist in handling legal aid cases. In fact, even if the solicitors and counsel, dedicated to their profession, work sincerely and responsibly with the spirit of sacrifice, making full preparations and fighting for every right of the penniless defendants in court, not too many of them can do such work pro bono for the poor defendants long term. If the situation persists, it will definitely affect criminal legal aid services in terms of both quality and quantity.
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Actually, the present fee system for criminal legal aid is not the worst yet. In 2014, Paul SHIEH, the then Chairman of the Hong Kong Bar Association ("HKBA"), mentioned in his speech at the opening of the legal year that before 2012, solicitors and counsel providing legal aid services would only be paid for attendance in court. Even the preparations done before going to court were unpaid labour. Neither would the solicitors be paid any hourly wage for their participation in the counsel's meetings. Audrey EU, former Chairman of HKBA, also cited an example, saying that to prepare for an appeal, a counsel needed to spend three to four working days to delve into all the records of the original trial, search for precedents, compile justifications for the appeal and submit a notice of appeal to the Court. But the reward for all of these efforts was just about the same as the pay for half-day attendance of a duty lawyer in the Magistrates' Courts.
The legal profession has all along complained about the gap between the remunerations for civil and criminal lawyers undertaking legal aid cases. The Government has insisted that civil and criminal cases are different in nature. The gap between the lawyers' fees under the two legal aid systems can only be narrowed, but the fees cannot be aligned. However, as stated by former Member Margaret NG at a Legislative Council meeting, criminal justice is of even greater, not lower, gravity than civil justice because it concerns the liberty of the citizen. For this reason, lawyers are willing to make a concession or even full waiver of their fees to ensure the manifestation of justice. However, if there is a lack of legal talents handling criminal legal aid cases, it will only harm the quality of criminal legal aid services in the end.
The crux of the problem lies mainly in the amount of resources the authorities are prepared to inject into the criminal legal aid system to help members of the public who cannot afford to hire any private legal representative during their criminal trials. Having checked the information of LAD in the last 10 years, we found that despite the persistence of overall inflation and continuous increase in recurrent expenditure of the law firms, the annual expenditure of LAD on criminal legal aid in the same period did not increase. In fact, many Members have also highlighted this point.
In comparison, the financial provision for the Prosecutions Division of the Department of Justice ("DoJ") has increased year on year during the same period. The amount of financial resources received by the Prosecutions Division from the Government for prosecution kept increasing, but there has been no similar or sufficient adjustment to the budget for defence lawyers engaged by LAD to 2980 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 undertake legal aid cases. As a result, the Government hoards plentiful resources for conducting investigations and prosecutions, while lawyers undertaking criminal legal aid cases have to expend extra efforts, especially in making preparations before trial, for defending their clients. The wide gap in strength between the prosecution and the defence is severely detrimental to the basic rights of those facing criminal prosecutions.
Criminal investigations have become increasingly complicated and covered a wider range of matters, thus intensifying this unfair situation. With constant changes in information technology nowadays, the number of prosecutions by law enforcement agencies around the world is on the rise, coupled with extensive use of evidence from experts and surveillance in the cases. For this reason, lawyers need to acquire various types of expert knowledge in order to deal with complicated cases. The defendants need to be represented by suitable lawyers, and these factors will affect the preparatory work for the cases. The present situation is extremely unsatisfactory. Responsible to the community, the Administration must resolve these basic and fundamental problems of resources to afford practical protection of equal rights to the people in criminal trials.
As a matter of fact, the shortage of resources in LAD has been a long-standing problem. As indicated by the past figures, the resources of LAD lag far behind those of DoJ. In 2017, the estimated expenditure of LAD was $990 million, down by $10 million over last year. On the contrary, the estimated expenditure of DoJ, which is responsible for prosecution work, has drastically risen by as much as 25% to $1.97 billion from $1.58 billion in the previous year. It is almost two times the other. At present, the Legal Aid Services Council ("LASC") is only responsible for offering advice to the Chief Executive on the legal aid policy. It does not have the power of an independent statutory body to monitor the work of LAD, not to mention the lack of resources for organizing officers who are legally trained or who have relevant experience to assist LASC in conducting the monitoring work.
All along, more than one third of the civil litigants in Hong Kong did not have any legal representation. This level has frequently been criticized as unreasonable. Moreover, both the lawyer of the plaintiff and that of the defendant must explain to their clients in detail the trial procedures and judgment criteria. Not only will it deplete the precious time of the Court for the trial. It will also greatly delay the proceedings of the trial and exhaust judicial resources and legal costs, thus affecting the operation of the entire judicial system.
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In a place where the rule of law is regarded as a core value, if members of the public, particularly the grass roots, cannot seek justice through the legal system, then justice can hardly be manifested. That the ordinary masses can freely and fairly initiate proceedings with legal representation in their defence is an important part of the rule of law. The Government must examine the inadequacy of the existing system and make rectifications to protect the people's basic rights.
The hourly rates and fees payable to lawyers are set out in section 21 of the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules (Cap. 221D). Although the Rules were amended in November 2013, the hourly rate for criminal legal aid is still lower than that for civil legal aid. Under certain circumstances, the payment for a criminal lawyer may even be equivalent to the pay for only a paralegal engaged in civil legal aid work. This gives rise to a wrong concept that compared with civil legal aid for which the remuneration is better, criminal legal aid is merely second-class service. Such a conclusion is both regrettable and incorrect. Meanwhile, the big gap between the fees for the two types of legal aid work cannot be justified either.
Given such meagre fee rates for criminal legal aid and the substantial increase in recurrent expenditure, lawyers and law firms cannot just undertake or exclusively engage in the defence service for criminal legal aid. If the experienced practitioners choose not to undertake any more criminal legal aid cases, there will be fewer competent lawyers well qualified for such work, thus causing wastage of talents engaged in criminal defence service (The buzzer sounded) … which is irrecoverable.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr SHIU Ka-chun, please stop speaking.
DR FERNANDO CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I rise to speak in support of the proposed resolution in relation to the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 2017 moved by the Secretary for Home Affairs to increase the criminal legal aid fees, the prosecution fees and the duty lawyer fees of the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") subsequent to the biennial review.
President, legal aid and the Duty Lawyer Service ("DLS") are the main types of legal aid services that the general public currently rely on, without which there is no way to reflect the resources required, thereby blocking the access of 2982 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 members of the public to a social service underlined by the spirit of administering justice through the judicial system. This service itself has been operating for many years, and in fact, the relevant lawyer fees have not been subjected to any serious review for 20 years. Regrettably, it invited a barrage of criticisms and reproaches from the legal profession in the past. President, I recall that we have recently proposed at a meeting of the Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services that apart from the adjustments made on a biennial basis to take into account the Consumer Price Index (C) ("CPI(C)"), a comprehensive review of the adjustments to the lawyer fees overall should actually be conducted, instead of the mechanical biennial review as presently the case.
The Government's response at that time was that it was unable to obtain sufficient information to facilitate its understanding of the current method of calculating the lawyer fees. The Government's remark that the two legal professional bodies have failed to provide it with sufficient information is strange enough. I find it odd for the Government to say that it is unable to obtain sufficient information when it intends to review legal aid and study how the remuneration for lawyers should be determined. The Government relies on the two legal professional bodies for the provision of information, but when the latter indicate that they are unable to provide such information, the Government then does nothing at all, refraining from conducting an overall survey and indicating that it is unable to conduct a serious and comprehensive review of the legal aid fees, the prosecution fees and the duty lawyer fees. Worse still, it uses this as an excuse. I consider this simply inconceivable. A government should gain a good understanding of the lawyer fees required for the provision of quality legal service to members of the public, so that the general public will not be denied access to justice because of lack of means. In fact, should the Government not take on such a basic task and responsibility? There is no reason for it to pass the buck to the two legal professional bodies, closing the matter by saying that they are unable to provide the relevant information.
In fact, many in this Council come from the legal profession, and I believe they can provide the Government with the relevant information. I recall that during an earlier visit of the Legislative Council Members of the current term to the Judiciary, we discussed the current remuneration for lawyers or Judges in the legal profession with Mr Justice Geoffrey MA, Mr Justice Andrew CHEUNG and several other judges. In fact, they are also well aware of the situation, pointing out that the Judiciary has encountered difficulties in recruiting Judges because some lawyers who are relatively remarkable in the profession with good track LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2983 records have been remunerated at a rate exceeding that for the existing Judges of different ranks in the Judiciary, including those at the High Court level or above. Hence, given the information actually available and discussions in the profession, a lack of understanding of the situation is not a justifiable cause for the Government to refrain from conducting an overall review.
In view of these, I consider that the slight adjustments to the relevant lawyer fees taking into account CPI(C) alone this time around have actually failed to address the prevailing market changes, and I believe those practitioners of the legal profession in the Council will also share my view. Hence, our legal aid system and DLS should actually serve those members of the public in urgent need. The aggrieved or the prosecuted in legal or criminal cases actually need to be accorded appropriate legal support.
Our legal aid system is actually rather peculiar, with certain constraints imposed. For many years, I have worked in the United States where the local social service organizations and legal aid bodies are often run by the community instead of the Government. We have worked in close collaboration with such legal aid bodies whose services often cover various communities. Unlike Hong Kong, legal support offered in its local communities is not under full official control with uniform provision of standardized services for members of the community by the Government. Instead, legal support is offered by those members from the legal profession at the district level according to the needs of various districts. It is good that we now have legal aid for people in need provided by the Government through LAD, as well as DLS organized by the two legal professional bodies themselves, demonstrating the commitment of the two legal professional bodies to serving and repaying the community.
In fact, I think the Government should also consider adopting the model of community legal aid in addition to these two models. Certainly, I notice that at present, the Home Affairs Department does provide some free legal support. Members of the public may make appointments for the service by phone, but the waiting time normally exceeds eight weeks. Even if legal advice is offered, the interview session may just last for 30 minutes. When some members of the public have rather urgent needs for legal service, hoping to seek legal advice on cases of injustice like eviction by a landlord or unreasonable dismissal by an employer, they are often kept waiting for ages. With a lack of resources in this regard, under the existing legal aid system, we will not be able to assist those people in need by adjusting the lawyer fees alone.
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I wish to talk about PILnet, a global community group promoting pro bono legal support, which has recently conducted a study entitled "THIS WAY―Finding Community Legal Assistance in Hong Kong". In an attempt to find some community legal assistance in Hong Kong, it has identified a number of loopholes in the existing legal aid service. Its first observation is that the existing legal aid service just focuses on providing those service seekers with representation without offering early legal advice at the preliminary stage of cases. Such legal support is offered mainly at the proceedings stage which requires a great deal of legal analysis, but legal aid offers no support for that. Most defendants in criminal cases are denied access to support from lawyers or duty lawyers at the level of Magistrates' Courts, and DLS is arranged for them only before their first hearing. By that stage, however, they will have already gone through the police investigation process at a police station. Some statements against them may have been taken, or some evidence may have been obtained by the Police in not quite the right way. For this reason, we hold that the parties concerned should be offered legal aid or DLS during detention and before their first appearance in court.
At present, detainees are not barred from seeking legal assistance. They may request a meeting with their lawyers or get their lawyers to a police station for assistance. But frankly, how will it be possible for the general public in Hong Kong to have their own lawyers? Hence, DLS should be extended to the level of police stations, and as regards such an arrangement, we have obtained the agreement of the Legal Aid Services Council ("LASC"), LAD and DLS. The only obstacle before us is the lack of a positive response from the Government on this issue.
In fact, LASC has submitted a paper to the Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services of the Legislative Council. We have held a discussion, but the Government has only indicated in its reply that it is a good initiative to be studied. Such an attitude deprives detainees of the assistance from DLS in the face of injustice.
President, I wish to cite a simple case. In the Mei Lam Estate incident last year, an intellectually disabled person with autism was mistakenly arrested, and during his detention by the Police, he was not given any assistance in the absence of appropriate procedures. Now the incident is over, and I can boldly say that it does involve a human error because after this complaint has been processed by LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 22 November 2017 2985 the monitoring authority, the final report shows that a number of police officers shall be subject to disciplinary hearings. Hence, it is obvious that this incident involves a string of mistakes, which all took place prior to a hearing.
Hence, the exclusion of detainees from the coverage of legal aid and DLS will give rise to incidents of injustice. Suppose we did not intervene in the incident back then, this intellectually disabled person with autism might have been taken to the Court on the grounds of some wrongly collected evidence, and I am not sure whether he would have even been wrongly convicted following the proceedings.
President, as soon as I received this request for assistance, I immediately got a pro bono lawyer to go to the police station on the same day, and it was precisely because of the involvement of this lawyer that the Police improved their processing of the case. In fact, the arrestee was released in the same evening.
Judging from these seasons, President, we can see that the existing legal aid service or DLS is actually still fraught with loopholes. Adjustments to the lawyer fees alone will not enable us to resolve such issues or achieve the objective of LASC, i.e. no one will be denied access to legal aid for the administration of righteousness and justice in legal proceedings because of lack of means.
President, I hope our debate this time around will enable the Home Affairs Bureau … we are aware that LAD may be taken off the plate of Secretary LAU Kong-wah and transferred to the Chief Secretary for Administration's Office next year. But no matter what, the Government should be seen as a whole. I hope the legal aid service in Hong Kong, no matter whether it is under Secretary LAU Kong-wah or the Chief Secretary for Administration, will be more diversified and comprehensive, and a comprehensive review of the relevant lawyer fees should also be conducted. Such reviews should at least be annual instead of biennial. (The buzzer sounded) Thank you, President.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Fernando CHEUNG, please stop speaking immediately.
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SUSPENSION OF MEETING
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting until 9:00 am tomorrow.
Suspended accordingly at 7:42 pm.