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Dáil Éireann DÁIL ÉIREANN AN COMHCHOISTE UM SHLÁINTE AGUS LEANAÍ JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN Déardaoin, 5 Samhain 2015 Thursday, 5 November 2015 The Joint Committee met at 9.30 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Deputy Catherine Byrne, Senator Colm Burke, Deputy Sandra McLellan, Senator Jillian van Turnhout. Deputy Mary Mitchell O’Connor, Deputy Dan Neville, Deputy Robert Troy, In attendance: Deputy Bernard J. Durkan. DEPUTY JERRY BUTTIMER IN THE CHAIR. 1 General Scheme OFA doption (INFormationand Tracing) Bill 2015: Discussion (Resumed) The joint committee met in private session until 9.55 a.m. General Scheme of Adoption (Information and Tracing) Bill 2015: Discussion (Resumed) Chairman: Apologies have been received from Deputies Peter Fitzpatrick, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Billy Kelleher, Regina Doherty, Seamus Healy and Ciara Conway and Senator Imelda Henry. I remind witnesses, members and those in the Visitors Gallery that it would be appreciated if mobile phones were turned off or left in airplane mode as they interfere with the broadcasting of the meeting. I thank members for their attendance at and participation yesterday in the vigil that we held to mark International Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Day. I acknowledge that we were joined by a number of representatives of Féileacáin, but I also thank and acknowledge the support of Mr. Brian Roche, Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep, and a number of others, including specialist nursing staff, who were unable to be with us on 15 October. I thank them for their participation. I thank Deputy Sandra McLellan for her proposal and the secretariat, staff and members of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges for allowing us to organise what was a nice ceremony. I hope members, no matter who will be here in the future, will be the custo- dians of the event which was enhanced by the presence of a lovely little baby, which added to the occasion. We resume our pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of the Adoption (Information and Tracing) Bill 2015 at the request of the Department. This significant and important Bill is long overdue and deals with a sensitive issue. I thank all delegates for giving of their time to be with us. I thank them in advance for their presentations and the work put into them. I also welcome those in the Visitors Gallery and thank them for being here. This is our final meeting in the pre-legislative scrutiny process. It is an opportunity to hear from a different set of delegates with different viewpoints, including adoptive parents, birth mothers, birth parents, foster parents, adoption agencies and other interested parties. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by abso- lute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing ruling of the Chair to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. This will, we hope, be a positive opportunity for delegates to have their voices heard. They are most welcome. I will begin by asking Ms Helen Gilmartin from the Adoptive Parents As- 2 JOINT COMMITTEE ON Health AND CHILDREN sociation of Ireland to make her opening remarks. Ms Helen Gilmartin: I am the adoptive mother of four children, all of whom were adopted slightly older than usual at the ages of nine months, 11 months, two years and two and a half years. Of the three who have met their birth mothers, two have also met other members of their birth families, including siblings. I have been working in the area of adoption counselling and support, etc., for almost 30 years. I was honorary secretary of the Adoptive Parents Association of Ireland, APAI, which campaigned for many years for the establishment of a contact register to enable adopted chil- dren and their birth mothers to make contact with each other, if that was what they wanted. We were part of the consultative group which culminated in the setting up of the national contact preference register in 2005. Many of the other members stepped back after that because they felt we had achieved quite a lot, but, as my contact information was included in leaflets and publications, including the Golden Pages, I left it there. As a result, my workload increased and multiplied exponentially because the greater the publicity, the more people were looking for information. As the APAI was listed under the letter “A” for adoption information and irre- spective of what aspect was involved, they tended to telephone me. I continue to assist adopted persons and birth mothers, as well as some birth fathers, when they telephone or e-mail looking for information on how to make contact with a significant other person and I am delighted to do so. I do not work office hours, which means that I am available at all hours. I have received telephone calls from the United States and Australia at weird hours of the day and night, but I am delighted to be able to help and enjoy a great deal of success in what I do. I am sure com- mittee members can accept that I have always been wholeheartedly in favour of the provision of information and tracing. Counselling is a vital part of the process. I find that when people are younger, aged 18 or 19, their immediate wish is to have instant access to everything. One has to talk them down from that and explain how they can go about it in the proper way. It is not a matter of just going on social media when they get a hint of their original birth name. That is one aspect that has to be considered in the giving of information. It is very easy for people to do a trace and they can be very successful. They can be so successful that they land on the wrong doorstep and approach the wrong person. Will I refer to the heads of the Bill? Is that the mechanism? Chairman: Ms Gilmartin can speak now or interject later when we have questions and an- swers, whichever she is comfortable with. Ms Helen Gilmartin: I have no----- Chairman: Does Ms Gilmartin have some remarks prepared on it? Ms Helen Gilmartin: Yes. Part 3, head 10 on the information and tracing service is the “Function of Agency to provide information and tracing service”. The background is that the authority has operated the National Adoption Contact Preference Register since its establish- ment in 2005. This register is to be discontinued and a one-stop shop will be provided for in the Bill. The new register should not negate all that went before. There is much that should be salvaged from the contact register because it cost a lot to set up and maintain. On head 11, the Adoption Information Register of Ireland which will be established is a new register and it is not proposed to transfer the existing entries to it. There are approximately 3 General Scheme OFA doption (INFormationand Tracing) Bill 2015: Discussion (Resumed) 11,500 entries on the current register. Why not transfer the existing entries to the new register? The National Adoption Contact Preference Register was set up at a considerable financial cost to the State and great personal investment by the people who registered on it. Most of those who registered did so with the expectation of successful reunions or to exchange personal or medical information. Some indicated that they did not want contact at that time. Why should these original entries not migrate to the new register? It seems wasteful and dismissive of people’s hopes when they responded to the publicity for the contact register and the leaflet drop to virtually every home in the country. The new register should encourage those already on it to reapply, particularly to update their original information. However, they should not have to reapply for inclusion on the new register when they have already applied to the old one. Why store this information with the authority when ideally it should be readily accessible to the new register? An adopted person can indicate that he or she does not want contact with his or her birth parent. I suggest that the phrase “at this time” or “at present” should be added to it. Oth- erwise it is like saying, “No way, this is it, this is my final answer”. If somebody indicates that they do not want contact, whether they are the adopted person or the birth parent, it should have “at this time” added to it. Head 12, on pages 48 and 49, provides for the “Allocation of monies for performance of functions by Agency and Authority and provision for charging fees”. There are huge problems with proposals to charge people for anything to do with information and tracing. I am shocked at the implied threat to use the courts to recover unpaid fees.
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