Da´Il E´Ireann

Vol. 600 Wednesday, No. 5 20 April 2005

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Wednesday, 20 April 2005.

Leaders’ Questions ………………………………1521 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach …………………………………1534 Request to move Adjournment of Daíl under Standing Order 31 ………………1547 Order of Business ………………………………1548 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 [Seanad]: Second Stage (resumed) ………………1553 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment Priority Questions ……………………………1573 Other Questions ……………………………1585 Adjournment Debate Matters ……………………………1601 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 [Seanad]: Second Stage (resumed) ………………1601 Private Members’ Business Social and Affordable Housing: Motion (resumed) …………………1646 Message from Select Committee …………………………1681 Adjournment Debate Irish Blood Transfusion Service …………………………1681 Digital Hub Project ……………………………1683 Job Creation ………………………………1685 Airport Development Projects …………………………1688 Questions: Written Answers ……………………………1693 1521 1522

DA´ IL E´ IREANN Mr. Kenny: ——instead of talking about plans and his vision for the future? He has been eight ———— years at the job and we are still talking about plans. When is he going to take action? De´ Ceádaoin, 20 Aibreań 2005. Wednesday, 20 April 2005. The Taoiseach: I will not go through the numbers. I have already explained how many ———— people go through our accident and emergency units. I am glad Deputy Kenny has distinguished Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar between ones that are overcrowded and those 10.30 a.m. that work extremely well. That is the position. As I said previously, the action is that this year ———— alone we have put a substantial part of both the capital and revenue budgets into providing extra Paidir. facilities. Those facilities range from better clean- Prayer. ing to better complex tasks such as MRI scans—— ———— Mr. Broughan: There is no change on the Leaders’ Questions. ground. Mr. Kenny: We know that 33,000 fewer An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach patients went through accident and emergency without interruption. This is Deputy Kenny’s units in 2003 than in 1998. Last week in response question. to a question in the Daíl the Taoiseach admitted that accident and emergency facilities were, in his Mr. Broughan: There have been eight years of words, “not up to scratch”. What is a crisis in the waffle. rest of the country, and what has driven nurses the length and breadth of the country to protest The Taoiseach: ——in Beaumont as part of this outside hospitals during lunch time, is simply “not year’s plan. We are providing acute medical units up to scratch” in the eyes of the Taoiseach. in Tallaght, Beaumont and St. Vincent’s This morning we learned that the situation is Hospitals. This will mean that people who go to much worse. The independent report of the hospital with problems and medical conditions Health and Safety Authority has criticised the such as respiratory illness or diabetes can be level of congestion in accident and emergency assessed and observed without waiting for long units around the country. It says this increases the periods in accident and emergency units. Other risk of injury, infection and violence from frus- hospitals around the country have found that trated patients. There are reports of trolleys, these units work well. Comhairle na nOspideál chairs and medical equipment being stored in fire has also pointed this out. protected corridors. Some eight of the hospitals inspected since March have been reported to fire Ms Burton: Has the Taoiseach ever visited the officers because exit doors and corridors have accident and emergency unit in the Mater been blocked. Yesterday 283 patients were on Hospital? trolleys in accident and emergency departments and there are serious reports of deep frustration The Taoiseach: In reply to Deputy Kenny, and of anger verging on violence among some these acute medical units have begun. They are patients in some units. positive actions. The Government’s response to this has been to fly a kite about the availability of a hospital at St. An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Taoiseach to Bricin’s, which will not happen now. There are give way for a second. complaints from nurses of being intimidated by management when highlighting the impossible The Taoiseach: I do not mind, a Ceann Comh- conditions in which they are expected to work. airle. This is the disruption we get every The Tańaiste has said that the nursing home Wednesday. charges issue is putting patients off moving out of hospitals. An Ceann Comhairle: This is Deputy Kenny’s The Taoiseach has been, or is supposed to have question. He is the only Member entitled to sub- been, in charge for the past eight years. This sit- mit the question. The Taoiseach is entitled to the uation in the fourth richest country in the world courtesy of silence to reply. is unacceptable. Conditions in accident and emergency hospitals in some places around the coun- (Interruptions). try are appalling. What does the Taoiseach intend to do about this—— An Ceann Comhairle: If the Deputy does not behave the Chair will take appropriate action. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s two Allow the Taoiseach continue without minutes have concluded. interruption. 1523 Leaders’ 20 April 2005. Questions 1524

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: If the Taoiseach waffles, the (Interruptions). patients are the people who suffer. An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputies Rabbitte The Taoiseach: We are buying beds from the and O’Dea to desist from interrupting. private sector for step-down care for hundreds of patients this year who no longer need to stay in Mr. Rabbitte: If I am a smart ass, the Minister hospital. I assure Deputy Kenny that this is work- is illiterate. ing and has been happening over the past few weeks. People are moving from acute beds into Mr. O’Dea: That is why the Deputy is taken private nursing homes. This is a costly way of nowhere. dealing with it, but the Government is doing it. We are contracting for long-term nursing care Mr. Kenny: I am aware the Minister for beds for many people who need higher level care Defence was flying a phantom last night with St. than would be available in the community. We Bricin’s Hospital, which is not available. are providing special home care packages for 500 people currently awaiting discharge from acute Mr. O’Dea: That is not true. The Deputy hospitals. This will help families and older people should correct himself. in their homes and communities and free up beds. We are ensuring we will be able to get access to An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputy O’Dea to general practitioners outside of normal working allow Deputy Kenny to continue without hours so that people do not have to go to accident interruption. and emergency units with normal problems. Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Wee Willie Winkle should go Ms Burton: Is that the doctor-on-call service? back and place his order.

The Taoiseach: All of these are not long-term Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach’s response sets out actions but are under way now. Deputy Kenny the scale of incompetence and devastation. After raised the issue of the Health and Safety Auth- eight years, it has taken an independent report ority’s report which is out today. The authority by the Health and Safety Authority to trigger the has completed its programme of inspections in 11 measures to which he referred. If a major hotel accident and emergency departments. It has had blocked fire escapes and trolleys in its corri- acknowledged that the hospitals are fully engaged dors, there would be calls by Members to close in the process of addressing health and safety in the facility. accident and emergency units. The report also Will the Taoiseach give an assurance that says there should be management changes. There patients attending hospitals in the coming period should be changes in bed practices within will not be in danger given the violence, frus- hospitals. The CEO of the HSA met the chief tration and carry on mentioned in the report? executive of the HSE yesterday. God forbid but if there was a serious accident following the Luas derailment earlier, could Mr. Broughan: We need new management in hospitals have coped and implemented the major the Taoiseach’s office. accident and emergency plan? My final three questions relate to the Ta´naiste The Taoiseach: The HSA has indicated that it and Minister for Health and Children’s ten-point is satisfied that the HSE is committed to address- plan. When will the minor injuries units be ing the areas of concern, that it will prioritise the developed and expanded? Where are they? management of health and safety issues and—— When will they open? When will the Government Ms Burton: This is more management waffle provide the MRI scanner at Beaumont Hospital? and jargon. Will it be this year or next year? Will the Taoiseach, for God’s sake, see to it that scandal- The Taoiseach: ——that it will highlight in its ous conditions in toilet units in hospitals are cle- actions the recommendations of the inspectors. aned up once for all? The HSA has secured the commitment of the HSE to examine the health system in the wider An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time is sense. This follows a meeting that took place concluded. yesterday. Mr. Kenny: I was interrupted. Mr. Rabbitte: Willie beat the Ta´naiste in the punch up—— An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy had plenty of injury time. Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach’s reply shows the scale of the appalling lack of competency of this Mr. Kenny: I have evidence from people who Government over the past eight years. That it are normally responsible who say they would be takes a HSA report—— ashamed to have anything to do with the level of filth and dirt in some toilet units in some Mr. O’Dea: Nobody likes a smart ass. hospitals. 1525 Leaders’ 20 April 2005. Questions 1526

The Taoiseach: The second MRI scanner will An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy Rabbitte. be provided in Beaumont Hospital this year. The I ask Deputy O’Dea to remain silent and allow resources have been made available for the medi- Deputy Rabbitte to ask his questions. cal units. I cannot be certain about when the work will be finished on them but the money has been Mr. O’Dea: I was provoked. provided this year. Hopefully, they will be ready as soon as possible. The major accident and emer- Mr. Hayes: It is easy to do so. gency plan is in place and, thankfully, it has Mr. Rabbitte: Ma´ire Geoghegan-Quinn was always served us well. It creates disruption for right about that much. The Taoiseach will prob- others in hospital when it is invoked but it works ably be aware that the Minister of State at the well and it is upgraded all the time. Department of Justice, Equality and Law All these initiatives are under way but they are Reform, Deputy Brian Lenihan, launched a additional to ongoing work. Issues such as clean- report yesterday on the childhood development ing and so on should not arise because costly con- initiative. The report deals in great detail with the tacts are in place but I accept this report has high- impact on children as young as ten of anti-social lighted some of these issues. behaviour. If the Taoiseach has not seen the report, I Mr. Stagg: Contracts are the problem. recommend it to him, because when I raised the question of anti-social behaviour with him last The Taoiseach: It also highlights management week, I was completely bemused by his reply, as issues in the hospital, which also must be taken were people outside the House. If the Taoiseach into account. had received as big a response to the issue as I have, he would know the extent of the break- Ms Burton: Too much management and not down of the fabric of society in many communi- enough workers. ties. Instead, he wandered, making a number of different claims. He said we have 14,000 gardaı´ The Taoiseach: Perhaps there is too much man- but, according to a reply to a parliamentary ques- agement but we have to try to deal with the situation by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law tion as it is. We are trying to provide the best Reform, we have 12,200. The Taoiseach then services. detailed at great length his struggle to implement the Criminal Justice Act but that was introduced by a Fine Gael-Labour Government. Mr. F. McGrath: We are looking for solutions. He then talked about community policing and instanced his struggle in this regard, stating: The Taoiseach: Everybody accepts that once one gets through accident and emergency, I recall what the Opposition said when two hospital services are excellent. There is a problem years ago a community garda in this city stood in accident and emergency and we are trying to up to deal with the unfair elements. I answered deal with that. We have put huge resources into in this House for that garda who tried to clear staff, equipment and the physical infrastructure out a few hooligans and vandals from the May to address this issue and we are committed to Day celebrations. I was trying to defend the continuing to do what to get them all up to the poor man. The Labour Party talks about com- same standard. munity gardaı´ but gives no support to community policing. Mr. Howlin: Where is the Cabinet programme? The Taoiseach made a most unfortunate choice. That particular garda and the events of May Day Mr. O’Dea: The Deputy did not do a whole are something that ought not to be celebrated or pile when he was in charge of the Department defended in this House. There is no single, simple of Health. solution to this phenomenon that threatens the fabric of society in many communities and neigh- Mr. Howlin: The Minister was my junior Mini- bourhoods but community policing is one of the ster. He barely ever turned up. He was too busy solutions. The resources devoted to community knocking on doors in Limerick. policing are entirely inadequate and inconsistent. Mr. Healy: They are non-existent. Mr. O’Dea: I could not get anything with the Deputy. He blocked everything. He was in the Mr. Rabbitte: The Taoiseach is well aware that, Department all the time doing nothing. for example, initiatives such as the JLO scheme have as many gardaı´ devoted to them as the Mr. Howlin: Only for Ma´ire Geoghegan- Garda driving pool. The resources are not put Quinn, nothing would have happened. into the measures that could address this issue in society. Unfortunate people are being tortured in Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The Government parties are their own communities because of the actions of eight years in office and they have made a hames young thugs and hooligans who are out of con- of the health service. trol, with no parental responsibility. The 1527 Leaders’ 20 April 2005. Questions 1528

[Mr. Rabbitte.] another few hours on Sunday. If he did it at the Taoiseach’s answer the last day sought to triv- right times of the day, he would know that the ialise rather than deal with a serious social issue. issue is not law but the lack of enforcement. The Taoiseach keeps coming to the House and offer- The Taoiseach: I do not know why the Deputy ing solutions in the shape of more law and takes an account of something I did not say last tougher speeches from the Minister for Justice, week. I did not in any way trivialise it. I said the Equality and Law Reform. The fact is that con- Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2005, which siderable powers are available to gardaı´, but they the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law either do not have the resources or they are not Reform is bringing in, is a serious Bill and I asked deployed in a fashion that allows them to Members to support it. It contains strong implement the law. People in extremis in their measures and criminologists and others have own homes are dialling Garda stations from stated the Bill is too tough. The Bill’s provisions which they receive no response. There is an will address the point made by the Deputy. It will absence of community gardaı´ patrolling neigh- strengthen the investigative powers of the Garda. bourhoods. Gardaı´ are simply not there to do the We are recruiting to get up to 14,000 gardaı´. job that modern living conditions require. People are besieged in their own homes, persecuted and Mr. Broughan: That is a correction. harassed for no apparent reason. For example, the Taoiseach talks about more The Taoiseach: The legislation will deal with law. What about the Child Care Act? It has been powers of arrest, search and detention powers, on the Statute Book for the past four years, but powers to fingerprint and to take DNA samples. the Taoiseach has still not invoked major The Minister has stated he will introduce sections. Part 8 covers widespread community additional provisions on Committee Stage to sanctions, but it has not yet been implemented. If address other issues relating to criminal gangs, there were such widespread community sanctions the control of firearms, curfew orders and powers and those young vandals were required to clean to place civil orders on individuals whom, as up some of the mess they had created—— Deputy Rabbitte rightly said, act out of order in society. We have an enormous range of powers An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time is and, in so far as the current legislation is not concluded. strong enough, the Minister will strengthen it with, I hope, everybody’s support in the House. Mr. Rabbitte: ——in those neighbourhoods, A small number of individuals, some of whom that would be real action. However, while tough are very young and some of whom may be under speeches promise more laws, there is no action in the influence of drink and drugs, believe they can the neighbourhoods where people suffer harass- intimidate their communities. The only way to ment and persecution for no reason but that they deal with that is through the Garda. I said last are old, vulnerable, women living alone or week nobody should recommend that there is merely different. another way to deal with this, though people at times get frustrated about these issues. The only An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time is way to do so is to have sufficient gardaı´ and a long since concluded. force of 14,000 would put Ireland much higher on a pro rata basis than every country in Europe. Mr. Rabbitte: People are being driven out of their own estates and desperately seeking Mr. Burton: We do not have 14,000 gardaı´. transfers from local authorities. We have witnessed the breakdown of society in many of those Mr. Healy: There are fewer gardaı´ in Clonmel areas, and it is not good enough to come to the now than ten years ago. House asking if the Opposition will support tough laws. Mr. J. O’Keeffe: A total of 200 gardaı´ have been recruited, not 2,000. An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to give way. The Taoiseach: They have sufficient legislative powers to deal with these criminals in a tough Mr. Rabbitte: I ask the Taoiseach to implement and rough way. I do not think anyone outside the the tough laws that are in place and provide the House is saying the curfew and civil orders to resources to the Garda Sıóchańa. name and isolate such individuals in their communities are not tough law. The Government is The Taoiseach: Enormous resources have been introducing what is necessary, and the Minister made available to the Garda Sıóchańa regarding for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy its numbers, overtime, equipment and intelli- McDowell, will bring it before the House in this gence. I do not think it takes too much Garda session. strength to deal with 13 or 14 year olds, or, as Deputy Rabbitte said, 12 year olds. They are not Mr. Rabbitte: The Taoiseach is out of touch. I armed criminal gangs. Most of what Deputy read in one of the newspapers this morning about Rabbitte has been talking about has been done his doing six hours’ canvassing on Saturday and by children causing disruption in their own areas. 1529 Leaders’ 20 April 2005. Questions 1530

The Children Act 2001 — not the Child Care Act, only to this House, but to the citizens. I ask the as Deputy Rabbitte said — has sections relating Taoiseach to forget the text that he used in his to trying to counsel families and rehabilitate such response to Deputy Kenny. Instead, I ask him to children. One cannot lock them up, and I will not stand here today and, in his own words, tell the enforce such a policy. House what he and Deputy Harney intend to do today to address the situation. It is outrageous Mr. Broughan: Why does the Taoiseach not that eight hospitals have been reported to fire implement the provisions? officers because exit doors and corridors are blocked. That means not only that citizens are The Taoiseach: The sections regarding family suffering on trolleys in accident and emergency counselling, trying to establish control, home liai- units but that they are also at risk from fire and son and teaching such children that life has a such other potential hazards and emergencies proper order are being implemented. For those that might arise. who must unfortunately be removed from society, large amounts of resources are being made avail- An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time is able, as the Minister of State at the Department concluded. of Education and Science, Deputy Brian Lenihan, said yesterday. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Will the Taoiseach and Deputy Rabbitte did not mention it, but I am the Tańaiste meet the Health Service Executive sure that he, like me, has attended many public and call on it not to go ahead with its plan for meetings where gardaı´ have said in front of sev- 2005, which entails a cut of some 600 jobs at the eral hundred people that there are cases where coalface of health care delivery and which the they do not have the powers to act regarding INO itself has said will result in bed closures and young people. The gardaı´ are continually pointing make the situation in accident and emergency this out. They say that night after night, in hall even worse? after hall, to the citizens of this country, and they do so not because they want to dodge their An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to responsibilities but because they believe they conclude. need tougher powers to deal with some of those CaoimhghınO´ Caolain: Where are the gangs of hoodlums and thugs who simply want to ´ ´ additional 2,250 acute hospital beds, the 4,000 manipulate communities. No one has any respect elderly care beds and the 60 primary care units for them, and there are cases where they simply promised in the Government’s health strategy? have to be removed from their communities, but This is a very serious issue, and the Taoiseach’s we do not have the powers to do so. We have to textbook reply will simply—— have civil and curfew orders to deal with it; that is the point the gardaı´ are making. We can pass An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to give the legislation and then, one hopes, our gardaı´ way to the Taoiseach. will enforce it. I agree with Deputy Rabbitte on this point. We CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: ——not suffice. We passed laws in this House many years ago about want to know what the Taoiseach intends to do not drinking in public or walking around with today. boxes of drink or ghetto-blasters. Many of those powers are ignored, but they exist for the gardaı´ The Taoiseach: I have already answered this. to implement tonight if they so wish. The Deputy asked me to explain matters in my own words, something I did for Deputy Kenny. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Last week some 300 He wanted to know what actions were currently people protested outside the gates of Cavan Gen- being taken, and I gave him those. They are eral Hospital in the pouring rain in solidarity with under way now, in addition to what has already the Irish Nurses’ Organisation’s campaign been put in place. I will give those points again. entitled “Enough is Enough”, and with citizens Those actions are significant. and patients who continue to suffer daily in acci- Why is there a problem in accident and emer- dent and emergency units throughout the coun- gency? Many people argue there is not a problem try. They were joined in Cavan and elsewhere by in that department but with beds elsewhere. That elected representatives of all opinion, including is why we have added 500 beds. Step-down places from Fianna Faíl. Is the Taoiseach not aware that are being provided in the private sector so that citizens are absolutely outraged that this crisis in people in acute hospitals can move to suitable accident and emergency units continues despite and excellent care facilities not in such hospitals, all the promises and commitments that have been thus freeing the beds so that people can move made and the money that has undisputedly been through accident and emergency more quickly. spent on the health services? It happens despite That is the issue. all the pledges by the Tańaiste and Minister for As I said, everyone accepts that, whether with Health and Children, Deputy Harney, when she cancer, cardiac or other services, when people are took up her position more than six months ago. in hospital, they receive good treatment, oper- The honeymoon period is long over, and it is ations and aftercare. However, with accident and now time for the Minister to be accountable, not emergency, because of people staying a long time 1531 Leaders’ 20 April 2005. Questions 1532

[The Taoiseach.] The Taoiseach: The excellent facilities—— in beds — far longer than was traditionally the case — one needs more beds. That is why we Ms Burton: I ask the Taoiseach to correct the have the step-down beds. We already have 200 record of the House. extra public beds this year, as well as out-of-hours GP services. People do not stop getting sick at 5 An Ceann Comhairle: The Labour Party o’clock in the evening. Where there are no such cannot have the three Leaders’ Questions. services in communities, people go to the accident and emergency department, and that exerts Ms Burton: Phase 2 of the Blanchardstown further pressure. project has not started. When people are blind drunk or drugged and start to fight or become involved in public order An Ceann Comhairle: This is Deputy O´ disturbances, they often end up in accident and Caola´in’s question. emergency departments, which puts 11 o’clock further pressure on such services. A The Taoiseach: Deputy Burton has failed to significant proportion of the \11.5 acknowledge that there are excellent facilities in billion allocated each year to the health service, her constituency. which has 100,000 staff, is spent by the Govern- ment on measures to improve the accident and Ms Burton: The Taoiseach has given a false emergency service. The Government is confident impression of the state of Blanchardstown that such measures will help to alleviate some of hospital. the difficulties we have encountered in recent years. The Deputy is aware that the Government An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to is also investing in a substantial capital prog- allow the Taoiseach to speak without ramme that will bring new hospitals and services interruption. on stream. The Taoiseach: I have answered Deputy O´ Mr. Broughan: The Government has not Caola´in’s question. announced it yet. Ms Burton: A Cheann Comhairle, may I The Taoiseach: Some of them are finished. We ask—— do not have to announce things that are finished. An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to Mr. Howlin: When will we see the 2005 resume her seat. programme? Ms Burton: ——the Taoiseach to make a The Taoiseach: St. Vincent’s Hospital has correction? almost been finished. Tullamore General Hospital has been finished. The hospital in An Ceann Comhairle: There is no provision for Blanchardstown has also been finished. anybody to interrupt during Leaders’ Questions.

Ms Burton: Phase 2 of the Blanchardstown Ms Burton: Phase 2 has not started. hospital project has not even started. An Ceann Comhairle: If the Deputy does not The Taoiseach: The hospitals I have mentioned resume her seat, she will have to leave the House. are open. The Deputy should acknowledge that. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: The Taoiseach did not Ms Burton: The Taoiseach knows a little answer my questions in his response. The elect- about Blanchardstown. orate will not be convinced that the Taoiseach has addressed the serious matters raised by Deputy The Taoiseach: I am waiting for the Deputy to Kenny and me in a satisfactory manner. How acknowledge completion of the excellent phase 1. does the Taoiseach respond to the pathetic excuse offered by the Minister for Health and Ms Burton: It took seven years for the Govern- Children last Monday? She said that the issue of ment to finish phase 1. nursing home charges was to blame for her failure to deliver on the ten-point plan she has proposed The Taoiseach: It is open. for dealing with the crisis in accident and emergency departments. Is the Taoiseach aware that Mr. Carty: Nothing was done when Deputy the fire service in Dublin has indicated that the Burton’s party was in government. crisis in accident and emergency units is affecting its ability to respond to emergencies because fire Ms Burton: Phase 2 has not—— brigade crews have to queue with patients after being called to attend to various problems? If fire An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to fighters are stuck in long queues, they will not be allow the Taoiseach to conclude. available to respond to other emergencies which 1533 Ceisteanna — 20 April 2005. Questions 1534 arise. What is the Taoiseach doing to address this Mr. Stagg: The Government has cut the home very serious matter? help service. What does the Taoiseach have to say to nurses who have pointed out that the employment ceil- An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach, without ings imposed on the health services are interruption. preventing the recruitment of additional staff to ease the crisis in our accident and emergency CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Is the Taoiseach an departments? Is it true that the moneys which are ostrich? being allocated to implement the Tańaiste’s ten- point plan are being taken from the original fin- An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy will leave ancial allocation made to each hospital? The the House if he does not behave himself. redistribution of such moneys will result in other cutbacks in 2005. It is time for the Taoiseach to CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: He should take his respond. head out of the sand.

The Taoiseach: I remind Deputy O´ Caolaín An Ceann Comhairle: If the Deputy interrupts that the provision of an additional \1 billion can once more, I will have to ask him to leave the hardly be described as a cutback. I hope the House. resources being invested in the health system will ´ solve all the problems in that sector. CaoimhghıńOCaolaín: God forbid. The Deputy made a point about beds and The Taoiseach: When one spends an extra \1 facilities. He said that people should be able to billion, one cannot refer to it as a cutback. It is access step-down places. Nobody has said that the obvious that the Deputy’s mathematics are controversy about nursing home charges has slightly different from mine. caused the problems mentioned by the Deputy. The Tańaiste made the point, which I had made Mr. Stagg: The Government has cut home help previously, that hospitals have argued that people in half. are now less inclined to leave acute hospitals to go to nursing homes. That phenomenon has been The Taoiseach: The Health Service Executive reported by nurses — I presume they have also is putting in place a permanent system of audit ´ mentioned it to Deputy O Caolaín. I assure the and inspection for cleanliness in acute hospitals. Deputy, if he is interested in what we are doing The system is already working. The Government rather than me giving anything else, that people has provided money for the acute medical units are starting to receive the special home care pack- and an MRI scanner will be acquired for Beau- ages to enable them to leave hospitals. Some 500 mont Hospital this year. An eminent physician in step-down places are being provided by the this city said recently that the new accident and private sector and nursing home places for long- emergency unit in Blanchardstown, which has just term stays will soon be contracted. been opened, is the best such unit he has seen anywhere in the world. Deputy O´ Caolaín should Mr. Stagg: The Government has cut the home acknowledge the improvements which have help service in half. been made.

The Taoiseach: Out-of-hours services are being Ms Burton: Did the Taoiseach check the improved. As I said, access to MRI and CT scans number of trolleys in Blanchardstown? has been increased. An Ceann Comhairle: For the information of CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Will the Taoiseach the House, we have gone over time by 12 minutes meet representatives of the Health Service on Leaders’ Questions this morning. Executive about—— Mr. Stagg: The Ceann Comhairle is losing An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputy O´ Caolaín control. to allow the Taoiseach to conclude. There is no provision for a second supplementary question. Ceisteanna — Questions.

The Taoiseach: There have been no cutbacks. ————

Mr. Stagg: There have been cutbacks in home Northern Ireland Issues. help. 1. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Taoiseach the position regarding the peace process. [5538/05] Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Of course there have been cutbacks. 2. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in the Northern The Taoiseach: The Health Service Ireland peace process; and if he will make a state- Executive—— ment on the matter. [6053/05] 1535 Ceisteanna — 20 April 2005. Questions 1536

3. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the position Economic Advisory Board during his visit to the regarding the Northern Ireland peace process; United States in March 2005; and if he will make and if he will make a statement on the matter. a statement on the matter. [8693/05] [6762/05] 17. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will 4. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to the United States; and report on recent developments in the Northern if he will make a statement on the matter. Ireland peace process; and if he will make a state- [8762/05] ment on the matter. [6767/05] 18. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will 5. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach his assess- report on his recent meeting with the President of ment of the implications for the Northern Ireland the United States, Mr. Bush; and if he will make a peace process of the discovery by the Garda of a statement on the matter. [8763/05] major money laundering operation believed to have involved the IRA. [6768/05] 19. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he met the Ireland-America Economic Advisory Board 6. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach his assess- during his recent visit to the United States; and if ment of the implications for the Northern Ireland he will make a statement on the matter. peace process of the reported involvement of [8764/05] members of the IRA in the murder of Mr. Robert ´ McCartney in the Short Strand area of Belfast; 20. CaoimhghıńOCaolaín asked the Taoiseach and if he will make a statement on the matter. if he will report on his visit to the United States; [6769/05] and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9079/05] 7. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meetings with the parties in 21. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will Northern Ireland. [6947/05] make a statement on the outcome of his meeting with the SDLP Leader, Mr. Mark Durkan, on 14 8. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach when he March 2005. [9190/05] next plans to meet the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair. [6948/05] 22. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the matters discussed and conclusions reached at his 9. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Taoiseach the meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mr. position regarding developments in Northern Tony Blair, on 10 March 2005; if the matter of Ireland. [7472/05] the proposed British inquiry into the murder of 10. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the Pat Finucane was raised; if he conveyed to the matters discussed and conclusions reached at his British Prime Minister concerns at the inadequate meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mr. nature of the inquiry proposed; and if he will Tony Blair, on 3 March 2005; and if he will make make a statement on the matter. [9191/05] a statement on the matter. [7521/05] 23. Mr. Stagg asked the Taoiseach if he will 11. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín asked the Taoiseach report on his recent visit to London during which if he will report on his most recent engagement he opened the new RTE office and studio; and if with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; he will make a statement on the matter. and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10593/05] [7577/05] The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions 12. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the Nos. 1 to 23, inclusive, together. agenda for his visit to the United States on St. The primary focus of my recent visit to Wash- Patrick’s Day last; and if he will make a statement ington was Northern Ireland. I briefed President on the matter. [8686/05] Bush and members of the US Congress on recent developments. I met civic leaders from Northern 13. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will Ireland and the McCartney family at the White report on his recent meeting with the McCartney House. When I met Robert McCartney’s sisters family concerning the murder of Robert and partner again last Monday week, I reiterated McCartney; and if he will make a statement on our continuing and full support for them. Their the matter. [8688/05] campaign has the support of the Irish people and 14. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will political leaders throughout the world. The report on his meeting with the British Prime McCartney family has shown great courage. I Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, in London on 3 March condemn in the strongest possible terms the 2005; and if he will make a statement on the intimidation endured by members of the family matter. [8689/05] last week when they tried to inform people of a vigil for Robert McCartney. As I said previously, 15. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will to bring the killers of Mr. McCartney to justice report on recent meetings he has had with the would be a good way of demonstrating that the Northern Ireland political parties; and if he will republican movement is committed to making make a statement on the matter. [8692/05] progress in the peace process. 16. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will I am extremely grateful for the continued sup- report on his address to the Ireland-America port of President Bush, the Bush Administration 1537 Ceisteanna — 20 April 2005. Questions 1538 and our friends in the US Congress for our efforts priate to make a further comment on the details in respect of Northern Ireland and their strong of the operation. encouragement for our attempts to secure an end to paramilitarism and criminality and to encour- Mr. F. McGrath: Have new or creative ideas age the pursuit of purely peaceful and demo- emerged to break the current logjam in the peace cratic means. process? Is the Taoiseach aware that many Gerry Adams’s appeal to the IRA is significant people are concerned about the vacuum in the and has potential, but it can ultimately be judged North, particularly in the stalled talks process? I only on the basis of the IRA’s actions on foot urge the Taoiseach, after the elections, to become of it. He has asked the IRA to initiate internal involved more directly and to kick start the consultations on the steps they must take as process. quickly as possible. The IRA has since said it will It was significant that Gerry Adams stated the give Gerry Adams’s appeal due consideration way forward is by building political support for and will respond in due course. It is vital that the republican and democratic objectives across IRA’s consultations should be concluded in a Ireland and by winning support for these goals timely manner and that everyone should know internationally. Does the Taoiseach consider this that the necessary steps have been taken and will statement to be a positive development? Does it be adhered to, and that the IRA is moving on. offer an opportunity to move the process Nothing less than a complete and decisive end to forward? all IRA activity and capability will be acceptable Gloating or seeking victory in the peace pro- if there is to be any prospect of achieving inclus- cess will not get us anywhere, it will only lead us ive politics in Northern Ireland. The only way for- down a cul-de-sac. Does the Taoiseach accept ward is through peaceful and democratic means. that all victims of the Troubles should be treated The Government will continue to work to with equal respect? In his remarks, the Taoiseach implement the Good Friday Agreement in full. mentioned Robert McCartney and Pat Finucane. During my recent meetings with the UK Prime I welcome that because there are many victims Minister, Mr. Blair, and the political parties, we who feel that the broader political establishment reviewed recent developments and the prospects here and in the North does not care about them. for progress. The Government will continue its We should perhaps revisit the idea of a com- efforts to achieve an inclusive and comprehensive mission for victims to recognise their needs. peace settlement. I hope it will be possible to re- engage with the parties after the British general The Taoiseach: I have tried to avoid entering election and to explore the prospects for progress. any new initiatives. During the election campaign While I was in the United States, I took the I want to be sensitive to all sides and parties and opportunity to visit Syracuse, Baltimore and New I do not want to say anything that might damage York, where I was pleased to receive an award any of them. I am concerned, however, that dur- from the American Lung Association in recognit- ing the campaign people will make statements ion of Ireland’s contribution, by introducing the and manifesto commitments that will make posi- smoking ban, to the association’s vision of a tions harder after the election. Depending on the world free of lung disease. When I was in Wash- results, we must deal with that on other side of ington, I availed of the opportunity to meet rep- the election but there are worrying issues and resentatives of the Ireland-America Economic developments that will make the position quite Advisory Board. I greatly welcome the invaluable difficult. insights and inputs that I receive from the Issues can be made difficult by manifestos and members of the board. I briefed them on the statements — I can quote them if people would peace process and on economic developments like me to, but I would prefer not to do so. Those since the visit by a delegation from the board to following the elections will see what I mean. Can- Ireland in September 2004. didates are pinning themselves to difficult posi- At my recent meeting with the UK Prime Mini- tions, not just for this year or next year but for a ster, Mr. Blair, I raised the question of a public generation, which is 25 years. Many of the state- inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane. The ments being made are not helpful and will not Government wants the standard agreed at make life easier after the election. Weston Park and set by Judge Cory to be The statement by Gerry Adams is significant. adhered to. Mr. Blair has made clear in his dis- It has potential but we need to see what the IRA cussions and correspondence with me that this is says and does on foot of it. When the Govern- also the intention of the British Government. We ment met Sinn Feín in January we made it clear continue to share the concern of the Finucane that it must reflect on the key issues that must be family that the new UK Inquiries Act 2005, under addressed by the republican movement if the which the British Government intends to have peace process is to get back on course, as every- the Finucane case investigated, will not meet the one wants. We are mindful that the elections are standards. The case was also discussed with Pres- underway and approach any comments made in ident Bush during my recent visit to Washington. that environment with some caution. Deputies are aware that a major Garda investi- In making this obvious comment, however, I gation into money laundering is under way. As am not trying to diminish Gerry Adams’s inquiries are continuing, it would not be appro- remarks. Mr. Adams said the republican move- 1539 Ceisteanna — 20 April 2005. Questions 1540

[The Taoiseach.] for me to say but it is they who have to live with ment has reached a defining moment. For so it. It is not easily done, as we have found in the many years there have been false dawns and past, but it is not something I have ever ruled out. dashed hopes, as I have said many times in recent months, and the last few months have crystalised Mr. Kenny: I share the Taoiseach’s view that the challenges that must be addressed. The crisis the d’Hondt system for the appointment of Mini- of trust and confidence is profound and will not sters in the Northern Ireland Executive is an be easily repaired. Only a complete transform- essential part of the Good Friday Agreement. I ation of the situation will generate the energy understand that when the DUP publishes its elec- needed to move beyond the current stalemate tion manifesto tomorrow, it will say that it will that the Deputy mentioned and realise the full turn away from this system. Does the Taoiseach potential of the Good Friday Agreement. regard that as a serious threat to a core element I would rather not move beyond the Good of the Good Friday Agreement or just as elec- Friday Agreement. There are many well meaning tioneering to consolidate the party’s vote? people with bright ideas but unfortunately they On the statement issued by the President of are all outside of the Good Friday Agreement. I Sinn Feín, Gerry Adams, I draw the Taoiseach’s have always taken the view that the Agreement attention to a fundamental point. On 15 can be reviewed in so far as allowance is made December when the Taoiseach was replying to for that in it, but we cannot go off in another questions in the Daíl, he outlined the comprehen- direction. sive agreement that the two Governments had One of the issues people have raised in the sought to bring about before the talks finished election is abandoning the d’Hondt system. One because of the difficulty with the photographs. cannot abandon the d’Hondt system and stay Speaking on that occasion, the Taoiseach con- within the Good Friday Agreement. That would firmed to Members and to the public that the immediately remove the power sharing element statement that was issued by the IRA at the time from the executive. I know what people are trying confirmed “its intentions in regard to that organ- to achieve when they say that but that will not isation moving to a new mode, issuing instruc- solve the problem. tions to volunteers and completing decom- I am not in the business of over or under-ana- missioning to a rapid timescale” but did not lysing Gerry Adams’s remarks but like most address the issue of other illegal activity with the other people in the country and elsewhere who clarity that was needed. The thrust of the state- are committed to democratic and peaceful poli- ment issued recently by the President of Sinn tics, I want to know what the IRA will say. I am Feín, Gerry Adams, invited the IRA to hold a not demanding that it be said tomorrow or the comprehensive internal discussion about a matter next day because that is unrealistic — we will wait that had already been decided by the IRA in the for the day — but we cannot fudge any of these statement it issued and to which the Taoiseach issues. Ambiguity will not work, that has been referred on 15 December. Does the Taoiseach brought to the fore in recent months. The fact share the view that the IRA stated its intent, that that Gerry Adams has realised that and made a this decision was made prior to the breakdown of significant statement that has potential, and is the talks last December and that the Sinn Feín prepared to lead the republican movement in a President’s statement now is merely going back to different way without the IRA in its existing form discuss something that has already been decided? and to deal with criminality and the other issues, In respect of his visit to America recently must be welcomed. where he met President Bush, was there any con- At every opportunity I try to mention every tact with him or his officials in respect of the Irish group. I agree with Deputy Finian McGrath that illegals in the United States, of which I under- this involves everyone on all sides. The case of stand there are some 50,000? Reports here from Rosemary Nelson has just started in the courts. the American Embassy and the ambassador’s There are many other cases involving people staff indicate that they are anxious to regularise from the Protestant and loyalist side as well as the the position. The Taoiseach is aware that these republican and Nationalist side. Prime Minister can be awkward and sensitive in some cases. Was Blair’s apology to the Guildford Four, Gerry there discussion about that? Did the Taoiseach Conlon, Paddy Armstrong, Paddy Hill, Caroline find there was a willingness to accommodate it Richardson, and the Maguires earlier this year and on what basis can we proceed? was a stark reminder of that legacy and the pain that victims still endure, many because of physical The Taoiseach: I do not want to make a categ- injuries and many because of psychological oric comment on a manifesto that is due out trauma. I include in that all people from all sides. tomorrow. I do not know but from what I have I am not sure if any more can be done in this area read, and I have been following this issue, and if but I am always ready to look at some way of it is as it seems, it appears to reflect a hardening dealing with and acknowledging all of the of their position, including ruling out the d’Hondt families. As we move into a more peaceful mode, voting system. Without getting into the election, many of these families think about how little was it is a core element of the Good Friday Agree- done at the time to deal with their particular ment under which a power-sharing executive is bereavement or case. I understand that. It is easy assured. Without going over the issue, it is an 1541 Ceisteanna — 20 April 2005. Questions 1542 unwelcome development because it cannot be and large, very few people now emigrate to the made work. Perhaps when I negotiated the Good United States; if anything, people are returning Friday Agreement I did not absolutely under- here from the US. The Deputy will be aware that stand how it would work but having been through because of these issues the trend is for people it to get the executive up and running, I became who did not come back in the past number of an expert on it and without it we could not have years to come back now. There has been an a power-sharing executive. There is no other upward trend in the past 12 months in the mechanism. number of families and people who emigrated When I read that in conjunction with what has before the 1980s to return here, and that can only been said by Peter Robinson, and perhaps he was be linked to the fact that they are finding it too misquoted, that it might take a generation to hot, so to speak, in the new environment. make any progress, that indicates enormous scep- The problem not just for the President but the ticism in terms of where we were last December. Houses of Congress is finding a scheme that deals That is the only point I am making. We had diffi- with the Mexican situation. It is easy to deal with culties within the past few months and we are try- our situation and that of other countries like ours ing to deal with those. but the Mexican situation is very difficult. There There was a willingness in the talks that ended are many bright people looking at this and we unsuccessfully on 8 December for the republican will make any suggestions we can but we need to movement to move to a new mode. The differ- make some progress. There is a willingness to do ence between that and the statement we have it but we cannot get Ireland dealt with separately. seen is that I am fairly certain it was not worked The President spoke about the quota system through the whole republican movement but there is no longer a quota system; perhaps throughout the island in the way that it was they will bring it back in some form. We will con- debated and agreed upon here and that they tinue to pursue it during the course of the year. would formally move to what Gerry Adams is We have built up a liaison through the ambassa- now asking of them — an end game and to recre- dor who has been meeting many of the Irish ate themselves in some other form, and that is groups during the winter and trying to get an their business, but away from paramilitarism, assessment of the number of Irish illegals. The criminality, training and all of the other issues. official figures are a bit of a nonsense, although That is the distinction. While there was a willing- we should probably not say that. They indicate ness to do these things on the part of the leader- there are 3,000 or 4,000 illegal Irish in the country ship of the movement, it was not something that but we know that in the Boston area alone there had the ground-swell of support. My view is that could be 10,000. I am not sure of the figures but because it did not have that, it led to what I we will continue to help. Congressman Walsh, believe was the IRA robbery on 20 December Senator Kennedy, Senator Dodd and others are and other activities. I suppose that is true of any being quite helpful in trying to assist us with it. organisation. As I have said many times before, the people in the republican movement have their Mr. Sargent: Will the Taoiseach agree that in own rules and orders and they have to follow this electioneering period the temptation to their own procedures. The fact that they are into engage in megaphone diplomacy must be resisted a process of considering that now is good. at all times? Will he acknowledge that it is partic- Obviously, the result will be the important aspect. ularly important that his Cabinet colleagues resist It will not be much use to us all unless there is a any temptation, regardless of the provocation, to conclusive result without conditions but time will engage in megaphone diplomacy? Will he tell in that regard. It is not an issue for now but I acknowledge also the frustration felt by parties hope it will be later in the summer. on this side of the House that are not engaged in I took the opportunity this year of having a the current fora and the fact that the Forum for good engagement with the US President on the Peace and Reconciliation, for example, is not in position of the illegal Irish in the US. This issue session? I accept there is not a pressing need for has become acute because of the new procedures it but will the Taoiseach acknowledge the need to they have introduced, particularly the one on give Opposition parties an opportunity to bring driving licences which has caught many people themselves up to date on issues and offer sugges- who perhaps had their heads under the parapet. tions in line with the Good Friday Agreement The new procedures mean they are off the road without having to resort to megaphone and that is difficult for people living in the United diplomacy? States. We raised this issue but we have no idea Does the Taoiseach agree, and this proves my of the number of people who are in this position, point because I can only raise it in this forum, although the Department of Foreign Affairs and with the suggestion by David Trimble that the the organisations in the United States have been SDLP and the UUP coming together would be trying to get a proper handle on the statistics. fraught with difficulties, particularly in respect of There is a willingness on the part of the Pres- the Good Friday Agreement? Does he see that ident, the Administration and friends of Ireland as having any potential? On the other hand, does on the Hill to help with this issue. Their problem he agree with the SDLP view of the need to is the way they deal with countries like ours, appoint an interim executive, for example, an which they do not see as a problem because, by idea no doubt borne out of frustration at the lack 1543 Ceisteanna — 20 April 2005. Questions 1544

[Mr. Sargent.] ident of Sinn Feín, Mr. Gerry Adams. Putting the of progress? What progress does the Taoiseach most benign construction on the speech, will the believe can be made to encourage the British Taoiseach indicate what constitutes a reasonable Government to provide the necessary evidence time to wait for a response? Does the Taoiseach and co-operation in the Barron inquiry or the Pat agree that the issue is not whether Sinn Feín Finucane inquiry? Is there potential for progress should break away from the IRA, as suggested in the current period or must everything wait by a number of commentators and posited in a until after the election? newspaper poll which asked if the time had come to leave the IRA behind, but that we ought to The Taoiseach: I agree with Deputy Sargent ask if the time has come for the republican move- that we should not practice megaphone diplo- ment to disband it? It is a different question. If it macy. Neither my colleagues nor I have done so is not asked, the work of the past ten years will for several weeks on any side. I will be careful not advance us as significantly as intended. and make brief points. I do not want to say any- The Taoiseach gave a qualified welcome to the thing for that reason about the DUP or the UUP. statement by Mr. Gerry Adams and I join him in I will stay out of it and people will make their that. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law own decisions on the arguments. They will cer- Reform says decommissioning is no longer an tainly not be influenced by me nor will their issue but an embarrassment to the IRA which voters. holds an arsenal of weapons for which there is no I am always ready to have Forum for Peace and use. He said it is the strategic objective of the Reconciliation meetings if I think it is meaningful republican movement to maintain small arms and to hold them. The significant issue will have to be the wherewithal to enforce its wish in communi- picked up and addressed on the other side of the ties and raise funds. There are significant issues elections in summer or, as most parties suggest, in to address in this context. Presumably the Mini- September due to the marching season. We have ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform speaks never made much progress during the season in with the benefit of intelligence. As Deputy Kenny good not to mind bad years. I agree with the point said, most people who voted for the Good Friday which has been made that negotiation must take Agreement thought these issues had been place on the Good Friday Agreement. I will say resolved. Is it not timely to resolve them now nothing which opens up the prospect that we will without equivocation, doubt or ambiguity about proceed on any other basis. I cannot do otherwise what has been decided? and wish people would stop asking me to reconsider during the campaign. The Taoiseach: I agree entirely with Deputy The Good Friday Agreement is the agreement Rabbitte’s last point. I agree also that it would we are trying to implement. While there was a defeat our purposes if Sinn Feín were to move great deal of controversy about some aspects of away from the IRA but the IRA were to continue it, we accepted the review and went out of our to function. While the Sinn Feín leadership is try- way to be helpful to the parties to it, especially ing to bring the IRA into a new mode which the DUP. We thought that was the right thing to excludes paramilitarism, we contend that the do tactically. To set off on a process which is out- related criminality should also be excluded. They side the Good Friday Agreement is something I do not agree, but the ending of criminality is what will not do. I see no other way of moving on. I view as the acid test. I do not necessarily agree The logical conclusion of moving away from with those who say the IRA must disband in a the agreement is intergovernmentalism, which is way which precludes its members from meeting something parties in the North, especially in the for commemorative reasons. We have had that Unionist tradition, very much oppose. If one scenario before, but it is a different issue in terms moves away from the Good Friday Agreement, of functions. It is what I understand the Sinn Feín the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach, whoever leadership is endeavouring to do. they are, take over and adopt an intergovern- Deputy Rabbitte asked about a reasonable mental approach. As such an approach has tra- period to await a response. As the process, we ditionally been opposed, we must work with the are told, is a consultative one which must take Good Friday Agreement and establish how we place throughout the island and beyond, it will can make progress. While I do not mind the heat take a few months. I assume that is what we are of the election, I object for the reasons outlined talking about rather than a period of years. The to very prescriptive manifestos which have the comments of the Minister for Justice, Equality potential to make life very difficult. In the context and Law Reform must be viewed in the context of tomorrow’s publication of the DUP manifesto, of the information that as of last weekend there I reiterate that the Irish Government cannot continues to be training, recruiting and, more agree to and will not negotiate the exclusion of worryingly though perhaps not directly related, a the d’Honte system. We will not entertain that cross-over, to say the least, into criminal proposal. activities. The criminal activity is carried out by people Mr. Rabbitte: The Taoiseach said he did not who have been involved in the IRA, but I will expect within the next day or so a definitive not get into an argument about whether they are response from the IRA to the speech by the pres- still inside the net. It is not always easy to know 1545 Ceisteanna — 20 April 2005. Questions 1546 who is in or who is out and I can understand that involve themselves directly in those elections in may also be the case for the republican move- the interests of one party? How does he believe ment. We have seen instances of the difficulty that impacts on the opinion of his impartiality and overnight. I do not have the full facts, but I am objectivity in regard to engagement with other aware of a serious drug case overnight involving political parties now and in future, specifically people with a past record of IRA involvement. Sinn Feín? Has there been a directive, either These are the concerns of the Minister for Justice, orally or in writing, to specific or all backbenchers Equality and Law Reform with which we must of his party to make themselves available to assist deal. the SDLP in the course of the election campaign The central point is that on the other side of that will come to a conclusion on 5 May? the election we must manage, as always, the marching season. I appreciate the commitment of The Taoiseach: I am not answerable for my republicans and loyalists to get through the diffi- party here, but I take the opportunity to say there cult summer season, which is always especially is no directive. However, if people from my party, problematic when there is a vacuum. We must as they have traditionally done, want to spend then attempt to move forward to implement fully their time—— the Good Friday Agreement, deal with outstanding issues and maintain agreement on the matters CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: The Taoiseach would decided last December. I accept that there are not discourage it. difficult issues. I hope people do not add to the difficulty by getting themselves into positions The Taoiseach: ——working, as they have from which it will be very hard to get out. If done for many years, they are entitled to do so. things are nailed down too tightly in manifestos We are a democratic political party. Our and people say it is part of their mandate then we members are also entitled to go canvassing with will be in a very difficult position. I hope people the Deputy if they wish. avoid doing that. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Maybe the Taoiseach CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: One of the last items would like to come along. of legislation enacted by the Westminster Parlia- ment before its dissolution was the Inquiries Act. An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach should be Will the Taoiseach tell us if he has raised with the allowed to speak without interruption. We are British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, the absolute running out of time. unacceptability of this Act to the Irish people? CaoimhghınO´ Caolain: I cordially invite Did the Taoiseach receive any commitment what- ´ ´ him—— soever from Prime Minister Blair, regarding the scrapping or amending of this Act, which we all An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should know would allow a British Minister to effectively please allow the Taoiseach to speak. gag an inquiry and is designed to prevent any real inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane and CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: The Ceann Comhairle others who were victims of collusion? would hardly like to come along as well. Is the Taoiseach aware of the Finucane family’s request to all senior British judges not to serve The Taoiseach: On the issue of Pat Finucane, on any inquiry that is brought about under this we have been dealing with all the points made by totally unacceptable Act? Would the Taoiseach Deputy O´ Caolaín. We have taken up all the be prepared to echo the call of the Finucane points he made. I met Geraldine Finucane and family, given all the facts he must now know in the Finucane family on two occasions recently regard to it? which coincided with the 16th anniversary of the Does the Taoiseach agree with Judge Saville of murder of Pat Finucane. It is well past time for a the Bloody Sunday inquiry who said this Act proper public inquiry to be held into this ter- would make serious inroads into the indepen- rible case. dence of any inquiry that would be constituted Our objective is to secure an independent under its terms? public inquiry as set out at Weston Park. That I noted what the Taoiseach said in reply to an view has also been represented by Judge Cory earlier question, that he would “stay out of that who shares the Finucane family’s concern about one”. He was referring to the tussle between the the British legislation. We have lobbied on that DUP and the UUP in the current elections. That legislation. We got many changes but not changes is fair enough. that give us confidence. Tony Blair and others have argued about how they can make this work An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy will have to but they have not convinced us at this stage. We conclude his question. We are running out of have exchanged correspondence with the British time. Government and the family. It is our view that the British Government should honour the com- CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: In conclusion, does the mitment in a manner that has the confidence of Taoiseach believe it is inappropriate for Mini- Pat Finucane’s family. That is the issue. It has to sters, senior representatives of his party, to do that. 1547 Order of 20 April 2005. Business 1548

[The Taoiseach.] Mr. Healy: I wish to seek the adjournment of The family has our full and continuous support the Daíl under Standing Order 31 to raise a in its tireless efforts over many years to get to the matter of importance, namely, the urgent need full truth in what is a disturbing case. Officials for the Minister for Health and Children and the remain in close contact with the family and we Health Service Executive to implement the High will continue to help them and to give them our Court agreement for the provision of general advice and support in whatever way we can. hospital services for south Tipperary, including the transfer of general surgical services to the Mr. Stagg: I am surprised my question was South Tipperary General Hospital in Clonmel, included in this lot. I refer the Taoiseach to an the opening of a GP assessment unit and the staff- article in The Irish World of 11 March where he ing of the newly completed units at Our Lady’s is reported as saying while he was opening the Hospital, Cashel, and approval of funding for the RTE Millbank offices in London, that he hoped completion, staffing and opening of an acute the complex issues of providing RTE coverage medical unit at South Tipperary General Hospital for the Irish in Britain in particular could be in Clonmel, and to allow the Minister to make a resolved. During a recent visit there with col- statement on the matter. leagues it was the top issue, particularly among the first generation Irish community, and it was Mr. Gormley: I wish to have the business of also identified in the task force report as one of the House suspended under Standing Order 31 the issues that needed to be tackled. to discuss an issue of urgent public importance, The sum of \8 million was provided although namely, the revelation that sewage sludge was that report concluded that funding of \34 million transported from the Ringsend wastewater treat- per year would be required. Subsequently I con- ment plant to a facility in Tullow, County Carlow tacted the director general of RTE, Cathal Goan, which was refused planning permission by An who advised me that the provision of the service Bord Pleana´la in 2002, and is stored in an area was feasible, that it was both technically and leg- which has no roof or walls, as is required, and is ally possible and that the only outstanding issue operated without a licence. There is now an was funding. The DTT system and the DSat urgent need for the Minister for the Envir- system in the UK could be used for this purpose. onment, Heritage and Local Government to Will the Taoiseach consider giving the required initiate an investigation into the operation of the \34 million, as outlined in the task force report? Ringsend plant, as I have requested repeatedly. I welcome the \8 million that has been provided. It is a major step forward. Will he examine the An Ceann Comhairle: Having considered the issue to see if further funding can be provided for matters raised, they are not in order under Stand- this area? If that is not possible will he examine ing Order 31. the possibility of ring-fencing an increase in the licence fee to fund this purpose as a thank you to Order of Business. the 800,000 people who went abroad and sent The Taoiseach: It is proposed to take No. 16, home money to us when we needed it? Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed); and No. 2, Commission to The Taoiseach: I raised the issue because there Inquire into Child Abuse (Amendment) Bill 2005 is a great desire from first, second and third gen- — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. eration Irish people who now take a very active Private Members’ business shall be No. 43, interest in Irish political and cultural affairs. I motion re housing (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 hoped that within the resources of the licence fee p.m. which we tried to increase it could perhaps be done, but I understand there is pressure. We An Ceann Comhairle: There are no proposals should try to find a way of progressing this. to put to the House. Does the Taoiseach have a What has happened in Northern Ireland statement to make? recently has been very helpful. Many younger Irish people abroad have got used to watching The Taoiseach: I join the other party leaders in programmes on the Internet but they would like congratulating Pope Benedict XVI on his elec- to be able to do it in a more comprehensive way. tion. It is an occasion of great joy all around the It would be good for us. We should pursue it, country, not for just Catholics, but for everyone. given the fact that it is technologically feasible It is a time of great hope for Christians and and that it does not sound astronomically costly people of goodwill everywhere. The former Car- to do so. I assure Deputy Stagg that I will follow dinal Ratzinger is a man who has given his life in it up. faithful service to the church. He has worked hard as a theologian and scholar of considerable note from the time of the Second Vatical Council. Request to move Adjournment of Daíl under Standing Order 31. That is a long time ago. Like every Pope before him, he will bring his own perspectives and tal- An Ceann Comhairle: Before coming to the ents to the papacy. Order of Business, I propose to deal with a I take the opportunity to congratulate the new number of notices under Standing Order 31. Pope on his election. I hope he will find the 1549 Order of 20 April 2005. Business 1550 strength, the faith and the wisdom required to do the AIDS epidemic which is the cause of death a difficult job on the world stage in the years for tens of thousands of people. On behalf of the ahead. As I said yesterday, I hope that at some Labour Party I join my colleagues in the House stage during his pontificate he will perhaps be in offering the new Pope every good wish in his able to take up the invitation Pope John Paul II pontificate. accepted, to visit Ireland. I know Pope Benedict was here before, in St. Patrick’s College, Mr. Sargent: On behalf of the Green Party, I, Maynooth, and perhaps he will visit Ireland too, extend good wishes to His Holiness, Pope again. I join Members of the House in wishing Benedict XVI. I hope and pray he will have the him well in his difficult role in the years ahead. courage, humility and the strength of spiritual leadership to confront the many challenges that Mr. Kenny: I join the Taoiseach in congratulat- currently face the world, wherever he may go, ing Pope Benedict XVI and wish him every suc- whether war, poverty or injustice, some within his cess in what is one of the most onerous and awe- own church. I hope he continues the enthusiastic somely responsible positions in the world. The work of his predecessor in drawing attention to new Pope obviously has an unparalleled oppor- and making a plea for what he termed an ecologi- tunity to effect greater unity and understanding cal conversion, namely, the compassion humanity between peoples and to encourage everyone of and the wider web of life needs to confront the faith, and none, to work for a more just and car- problems that have arisen as a result — as Pope ing world. The legacy his predecessor, Pope John John Paul II said — of the way humanity acted Paul II left, and his identification of the great as “an autonomous despot” in relation to the rest obstacles to the progress of humanity towards of creation. This needs to be faced up to. That having life, food, peace and freedom are still huge ecological conversion needs to be given practical challenges in which the new Pope can give his effect. own form of leadership. As a Catholic from a reformed tradition, and As the Taoiseach pointed out, he is a man with on behalf of the many people who are not Roman a brilliant mind and a long and active involve- Catholic, I hope the new Pope will continue the ment in theology. He is also a deeply spiritual work of his predecessor in reaching out to other man. I pray, as do Catholics all over the world, traditions. That is particularly pertinent and help- that this deep sense of spirituality will help him ful on this island, as we hope to overcome many to be the pastor the church desperately needs to long years of intolerance and build a tolerant and deal with the serious challenges it faces in the mutually respectful society in which Pope years ahead. I hope he will be able to give guidance to the people of God, as it were, and above Benedict XVI will I hope play an active and posi- all lead and treat them with compassion and tive role. understanding. I share the Taoiseach’s view that he might be able to carry into effect Pope John Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children Paul II’s intention to visit Ireland. Invitations for (Ms Harney): I, too, join the other party leaders papal visits have probably flooded the Vatican in congratulating Cardinal Ratzinger on his elec- already. Perhaps Pope Benedict XVI may choose tion as the 265th Pope. He comes to the papacy to come to Ireland. I hope he does. I wish him at a very challenging time for the Catholic church. well in his challenging role as the new pastor of Pope John Paul was admired for many reasons. the Roman Catholic Church. I pray that he will It is difficult to think of anyone in modern times have the wisdom and compassion to face those who has had so much influence for good. His challenges as he attempts to build an inclusive stance on peace and human rights was greatly church during his remit. admired and inspired many people worldwide. The response to his death, particularly from Mr. Rabbitte: On behalf of the Labour Party, young people, indicates that people want leader- I join the Taoiseach and leader of Fine Gael in ship and a spiritual dimension to their lives. congratulating Pope Benedict XVI and wish him As a Catholic I certainly hope the role of the well in his awesome task. He succeeds a Pope laity can be taken more seriously in the church, who was never afraid to tell the great and the and that the different perspectives can be har- good where he stood on matters of peace and nessed, particularly the role of women. Pope war. It is noteworthy that his namesake, Pope Benedict XVI will have many challenges to face. Benedict XV, sought to exercise an influence in He is a scholar, a theologian and he has a brilliant preventing the First World War. I hope that is an mind. The greatest challenge he faces at a time of omen for the papacy of Pope Benedict XVI. enormous change in the world is to inspire and to I would like to believe there may be a change lead Catholics, and through this to have closer of direction in the governance of the Catholic relationships with people in other churches. The church, in responding to the movement for social challenges facing the papacy today are different justice in South America and elsewhere in the from those in the past. Deputy Rabbitte referred world. I would like to believe the stance his pre- to the AIDS crisis and there are many other decessor adopted might be reviewed on the issue issues. There is perhaps no one else in the world that is causing such devastation in Africa, the with as much influence for good as the Pope. I health-related and other matters that arise from wish him well in the challenging times ahead in 1551 Order of 20 April 2005. Business 1552

[Ms Harney.] The Taoiseach: It will be as soon as possible. mobilising his influence to bring greater justice to the world. Mr. Stanton: Another five years.

Aengus O´ Snodaigh: Cosu´ il leis na daoine eile Mr. Bruton: Bring back Senator O’Rourke, she a labhair romham ba mhaith liom dea´-ghuı´ a chur will bring it on. chuig an Papa nua agus go n-eíreodh leis san obair mho´ r roimhe. Is leír go bhfuil Mr. Broughan: I have a letter from the Irish 12 o’clock alań fadhbanna agus dıóspo´ ireacht Postmasters Union—— le theacht san Eaglais Chaitliceach. Beidh se´ de dhualgas ar an cheannaire nua na An Ceann Comhairle: Does the Deputy have a heaglaise seo deíleaíl leis na fadhbanna agus dıós- question appropriate to the Order of Business? po´ ireachtaı´ sin go hoscailte agus eísteacht agus meas a thabhairt le gach tuairim a chuirfear Mr. Broughan: Yes, it is about legislation. roimhe agus roimh an eaglais. Nı´ hiad na cleír bunu´ s na heaglaise ach na gna´thdhaoine agus ta´ An Ceann Comhairle: We do not need a pref- alań daoine ag deánamh oibre maithe i measc ace to the question. pobal aítiu´ la timpeall an domhain agus ar son na co´ ra. Ta´ su´ il agam go dtiocfaidh a lań acu chun Mr. Broughan: The letter states that I am cinn amach anseo san Eaglais Chaitliceach. invited to attend the meeting of the Fianna Faíl Parliamentary Party. Mr. Kenny: When will the building societies amendment Bill and the alcohol products control An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy Durkan. of advertising, sponsorship and marketing Mr. Naughten: Deputy Broughan will be wel- practices/sales promotions Bill be published? The comed there with open arms. latter was expected in late 2005. Cecilia Keaveney: We might let the Deputy The Taoiseach: The heads of the building join. societies amendment Bill have been approved and the Bill is due for the autumn session. The Mr. Broughan: I just want to find out what hap- alcohol products Bill is due late this year but it pens. Will the Taoiseach inform us as to what is may be next year when it is taken. happening?

Mr. Rabbitte: What is the latest information on An Ceann Comhairle: I have called Deputy the work permits Bill? Durkan.

The Taoiseach: It will be published in this Mr. Rabbitte: The Ceann Comhairle is just session. jealous. He cannot defend them.

Mr. Sargent: At what stages are the Dublin Mr. Durkan: On a similar issue, one which is in metro Bill and the transport reform Bill, partic- order, I am sure the Ceann Comhairle, like me, ularly as they will affect services for Dublin Air- is impressed that Fianna Fa´il will rise to the port and Swords? occasion by——

The Taoiseach: Work is in progress on the An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a ques- heads of the Dublin metro Bill, which was orig- tion appropriate to the Order of Business? inally titled the infrastructural Bill. It will be published next year. Mr. Durkan: ——running a \500 draw to pay for the election campaign of a candidate in the Ms O. Mitchell: I have a report from the former European Parliament elections. Minister, Senator O’Rourke, who is soon to return to the Daíl, dated May 2000, which prom- An Ceann Comhairle: Does Deputy Durkan ised the liberalisation of the Dublin bus market. have a question on legislation? Would it be premature five years later to ask whether legislation in this area is a serious Mr. Durkan: This is in order. promise? An Ceann Comhairle: It is not in order. The Mr. Stagg: Wait for Senator O’Rourke to come Deputy is out of order. back to deal with it. A Deputy: Deputy Durkan could buy a ticket. The Taoiseach: A Bill is being prepared to update the 1932 Act. Mr. Durkan: What enthused me most, and I begun to holler uncontrollably when I heard—— Ms O. Mitchell: When will that be? An Ceann Comhairle: I am prepared to hear Mr. Durkan: It will be another derailment. the Deputy on legislation. If the Deputy does not 1553 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1554 have a question on legislation, I will call Deputy an tı´r. Bhı´ na focail sin cro´ ga ach bhı´ crıónnacht Naughten. ag baint leo freisin. Nı´l na gardaı´ faoi airm go fo´ ill agus ta´ se´ soileír gur cosaint e´ sin do na gardaı´ o´ Mr. Durkan: ——a radio presenter announce bunaıódh an fo´ rsa agus ina theannta sin, cosaint on the national airwaves that he would buy one e´ don phobal i gcoitinne. ticket at \500. Ta´ Bille an Gharda Sıóchańa 2004 ta´bhachtach. Ta´ rudaı´ maithe ann ach ta´ laigı´ ann freisin gur An Ceann Comhairle: If Deputy Durkan feídir a leasu´ . Beidh an Teachta Costello ag resumes his seat, I will call him later when he may tabhairt faoi leasaithe sin ar Cheím an Choiste. ask a question appropriate to the Order of The Garda Sıóchańa’s record is excellent. Since Business. the foundation of the State, it has been a most effective unarmed force. It came into being when Mr. Durkan: The broadcasting authority Bill the Civil War began and later it had to cope with refers to this issue and the institutions in the area 30 years of paramilitary violence and serious have raised questions—— crime. Its work has not been easy, with incidents such as those encountered in Donegal, which An Ceann Comhairle: I am calling Deputy brought no credit to the force. However, its con- Naughten. tribution to the State has been immense. It has lost members in protecting society and dealing The Taoiseach: The Bill will be published with crime. next year. The Garda and the prison system will not elim- An Ceann Comhairle: It will be next year. I call inate crime in society. In particular, low level Deputy Naughten. crime proves to be a source of fear for many vulnerable people in society. Elderly people live in Mr. Durkan: I want to know—— fear of young people, wearing jackets with hoods, hovering outside their homes. As they all dress An Ceann Comhairle: If Deputy Durkan does the same way with these hoods, they are unident- not want his colleague to speak, we will move to ifiable. We must find a solution to the problem of the next item of business. these unidentified young people who gather in an intimidatory manner and who might also be Mr. Durkan: May I ask—— carrying out crime and vandalism and generally indulging in anti-social behaviour. An Ceann Comhairle: No, Deputy Durkan will I mentioned last week that when the Education resume his seat. He already had his chance to ask (Welfare) Act was going through the House I a question. I call Deputy Naughten. sought to have it amended to provide for education welfare officers. As a former teacher, I Mr. Durkan: This is a serious issue. considered such an amendment necessary to deal with children who are at risk of becoming An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Durkan is involved in anti-social behaviour, crime, sub- being disorderly. stance abuse and so forth. These children are identifiable at a young age by teachers. The prob- Mr. Durkan: It could be a precursor to a Mini- lem is that whereas there are many agencies and ster reading the news. Departments to deal with them, the services are not co-ordinated and the greatest weakness is An Ceann Comhairle: We are moving to No. that there is no specific desk at which the buck 16. Deputy Naughten will be the first on the stops. Order of Business tomorrow morning. A welfare officer should be appointed for each VEC area. Cases would be referred to that officer Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 [Seanad]: Second in the first instance by teachers, the gardaı´ or any- Stage (Resumed). body who sees a child at risk and believes there is a need for that child, and perhaps its parents, Question again proposed: “That the Bill be to be assisted. If we are to have any success in now read a Second Time.” steering young people away from leading worth- Mr. O’Shea: Ta´ a´thas orm an seans a fhaíl arı´s less lives, they must be dealt with in a holistic inniu paírt a ghlacadh sa dıóspo´ ireacht manner, that is, in the context of the family. tha´bhachtach seo. Mar a du´ irt an Teachta Where parents are in dereliction of their duty to Costello, urlabhraı´ an Phaírtı´ Lucht Oibre ar their children either through lack of parenting chu´ rsaı´ dlı´ agus cirt, comhionannais agus skills or downright neglect, they could be brought athcho´ irithe dlı´,du´ irt an cheád choimisineír ar na before the education welfare officer. This could gardaı´, Michael Staines, i 1922 go n-eíreodh leis be done not in a confrontational manner but in a na gardaı´ leis an u´ dara´smo´ ra´lach a bhı´ acu way which allows the situation to be judged and seachas cumhacht le hairm no´ meíd an fho´ rsa. a plan to be devised to assist the parents, with the Du´ irt an Teachta Costello freisin go raibh an help of the support organisations, to bring that raíteas sin an-chro´ ga ag an am sin. Bhı´ an Cogadh family back to an even keel so the children can Cathartha ag tosu´ agus bhı´ fir faoi airm thart ar grow up to be useful members of society. Cur- 1555 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1556

[Mr. O’Shea.] This Bill is deficient in addressing these issues. rently, the buck is passed and no person has The opportunity was missed to conduct wider responsibility for ensuring, for example, that such consultation and to put a commission in place a plan is implemented. The education officer when this legislation was being drafted. With the should have the power to call the agencies and Patten model there was consultation with every Departments to account if a representative of a police station and the views of people were heard. Department or agency did not deliver or did not Every area has a different story and different co-operate fully with other organisations. problems but some areas might have devised This illustrates a weakness in the legislation ways of preventing the continuation of low level, before us. A great opportunity was lost with intimidatory crime. regard to establishing an independent com- I welcome the joint policing committees pro- mission on policing, such as was established in posed in the legislation. However, there are Northern Ireland on foot of the Good Friday faults, in that the provisions are not sufficiently Agreement. The commission, which had a year to comprehensive. I refer Members to the Labour complete its work, consulted far and wide. It took Party’s document on the police force, which was written submissions and heard oral evidence and produced by my colleague, Deputy Howlin, and the views and opinions of various stakeholders which was substantially based on the Patten on policing. model. These committees have commendable Many people in society feel alienated from the duties to perform. The members are to consist of system. We often hear about low level crime. It nominated members of local authorities and that can be devastating for vulnerable people but it is is how it should be. Members of the Garda Sıóch- virtually impossible to secure a conviction for ańa on the committees will be nominated by the such crime. There is the problem of evidence. All Garda Commissioner. Members of the too often people who can give evidence are afraid Oireachtas will also be on the committees, as will persons nominated by other bodies. The guide- to do so. This is understandable given the circum- lines on these joint policing committees have not stances that pertain in large urban areas. Equally, yet been circulated but the community and volun- it is difficult, if not impossible, to secure a convic- tary sector should have places on these commit- tion when there is no forensic evidence as a result tees by right. Many of these community and vol- of the gardaı´ being called after the culprits are untary groups have a great knowledge of what it long gone. The solution to this problem lies in is like to be a victim of anti-social behaviour and preventing it occurring, as best one can, through low level crime. The feed of information that the education welfare officer system I have could come from this sector is an important proposed. ingredient to develop police policies that will I recall an urban area in my constituency where make our country a better place in which to live. I young men would emerge in the early afternoon, hope that the Minister looks at this on Committee following a morning spent in bed, and assemble Stage. The joint policing committees need to be in a public area to drink beer from cans. I cannot as small as possible to be effective. However, the say if they were also taking drugs. At least some main players should be included, and they would of these young people were in receipt of unem- comprise all those groups that have a real contri- ployment assistance. To qualify for unemploy- bution to make. ment assistance a person must be available for work and genuinely seeking work. Where the Mr. Curran: I wish to examine a few sections gardaı´ become aware of people behaving in that in this Bill. One of the most welcome devel- manner there should be a duty on them to report opments is in section 31 which provides for the it to the Department of Social and Family Affairs establishment of the joint policing committee so the people involved can be taken to task in with Garda and local authority representation. regard to their efforts to seek employment and to This measure will help to build a proper forum be available for work. for communication between gardaı´ and local resi- These people are paid money by the State to dents of a community. Joint policing committees which, in the right circumstances, they are represent a step in the right direction to tackle entitled. However, they use it to purchase drink. the problem of anti-social behaviour in local They are allowed to do that but the practice of areas. Like Deputy O’Shea, I believe that com- consuming drink on the street means they consti- munity-based organisations should be rep- tute a nuisance at best or, at worst and all too resented along with officials from local auth- often, intimidators. This matter should be orities and elected representatives. These local urgently examined. People need enough money policing committees must have a place for volun- to survive but obviously these people can survive tary organisations that operate in communities and still have enough money to purchase alcohol. because they have information on what is taking It is not a straightforward situation but it might place in their areas. be possible to bring these people to their senses Provisional figures show an 11% decrease in if they are made to realise that if they are getting serious crime for the first quarter of 2005 and paid unemployment assistance they should not such a reduction is welcome. However, the level use it to get drunk in a public area and make that of anti-social behaviour is increasing. Such behav- area hell for others. iour may be deemed a minor offence, but it is 1557 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1558 on the increase in all constituencies. As a public the Department of Justice, Equality and Law representative, I am contacted by constituents Reform secures a higher charge than the Depart- more about anti-social behaviour than serious ment of Defence for the services provided during crime. cash escorts, I am not sure whether it is provided As a former member of South Dublin County at a commercial rate or is subsidised. Council, I sat on a committee with Deputy Rabbitte that was established by the council. It Mr. P. McGrath: It is heavily subsidised. was formed to deal primarily with joyriding and anti-social behaviour. The committee also con- Mr. Curran: In any event, it should be provided sisted of the county manager, a number of key at a commercial rate. The cash escort businesses staff from the local authority and the two chief and the banks benefit from this. When an ordi- superintendents for the various jurisdictions. We nary member of the community withdraws met once a month and I found the experience money, he or she is charged for doing so. interesting as we could see progress being made. Another area related to charges for services is I frequently speak to gardaı´ and they wish the that of entertainment venues. Most of these council did more on some issues. On the other venues employ rigorous internal security arrange- hand, council officials have often told me that ments such as closed circuit television, security such issues are for the Garda. staff and so on. It is unfair that these venues close This committee brought tangible solutions to their doors at a given time and the patrons pour real issues. It was not the answer to everything. onto the streets to be supervised by the Garda. However, in some instances of joyriding, gardaı´ Perhaps these late night venues, which levy sig- claim they cannot deal with it because joyriders nificant entrance charges, should make a contri- can escape through certain lanes and so on. By bution towards the provision of additional Garda getting appropriate responses from the local numbers. It is most often at that time of night authority, we could see improvements being such incidents are reported. made. The composition of the committee was not Another key objective of the Bill is to establish perfect, but it brought the key players together. the independent Garda Sıóchańa ombudsman There was an air of responsibility between them commission to replace the existing complaints to ensure that they were delivering their part of board. At times, people have called into question the deal to make a real improvement. Having the current system for dealing with complaints experienced it, I endorse fully the issue of against members of the force. There has perhaps policing committees. been a lack of confidence in the board which, in While we do not have a formal structure for turn, pointed to problems concerning the current policing committees, they exist in an informal arrangements. A new mechanism is thus needed way. In Clondalkin, there are two safety forums to ensure openness, transparency and, more which were established by local communities. importantly, public confidence in the investi- They engage with gardaı´ and local representa- gation of complaints against members of the tives every month or six weeks. They tackle the Garda Sıóchańa. issue of anti-social behaviour, joyriding and so on. Of all the constituents who have come to my The meetings are well attended by gardaı´ from office, I have never heard a complaint from them the highest to the lowest level in the area. Local against an individual Garda. When people com- people feel that they are getting their point across plain about the Garda Sıóchańa it is because they directly to the Garda and are getting a direct did not respond quickly enough. I have checked response. On the other hand, gardaı´ get infor- this matter and my office has never come across mation on what is happening in the area which an individual complaint against a Garda, even gives them an opportunity to deal with that. though it is a busy constituency office. We need Part II of the Bill sets out, in a general way, the to be balanced in our views on this issue when various roles and responsibilities of the Garda discussing the proposed mechanism for making and so on. Gardaı´ have recently brought to my complaints. Complaints against the Garda Sıóch- attention that in some areas, they experience dif- ańa are not an everyday occurrence by any ficulty at weekends securing search warrants. This means. is often due to the difficulty in getting to a judge. I support the Bill’s provision for the establish- From an operational point of view, the timing of ment of joint policing committees, which is one of obtaining a search warrant can be crucial. I sug- the most hopeful aspects of the legislation. While gest a garda of senior rank, witnessed by a peace serious levels of crime are being dealt with effec- commissioner, might be able to issue a warrant, tively, other crime, including anti-social behav- or perhaps a similar system could be applied. We iour, is not being dealt with adequately as far as do not have continuous access, particularly at the public is concerned. The only way we will weekends, to judges to obtain search warrants. I ever deal with such problems is by having our do not know if another mechanism could be communities engage fully in resolving them. introduced where warrants could be secured. That might be examined in Part II. Mr. P. Power: I thank Deputy Curran for shar- Section 26 refers to charges for services. The ing some of his time with me. I join many of my most obvious example of such charges is the colleagues in welcoming this Bill, which consti- security escort for banks. While I appreciate that tutes the first major reform of the Garda Sıóch- 1559 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1560

[Mr. P. Power.] complaints about, or information that may come ańa since the 1920s. The Minister and his depart- to hand concerning, the Garda Sıóchańa. That is mental officials ought to be commended for their a key aspect of the legislation in that it enables work on this substantial legislation, which pro- the inspectorate not just to rely on complaints. vides for the modern management and admin- As we know from recent tribunals and other high istration of the Garda Sıóchańa. In this day and profile cases, some people may not wish to make age, as we all know, such large organisations con- complaints. However, information may some- stantly need to reform themselves and examine times come to hand from a third party on a confi- their work practices in a modern context. The Bill dential basis that needs to be investigated. will go a long way towards putting in place struc- While welcoming the Bill’s proposals to mod- tures to allow the Garda Sıóchańa to operate in ernise practices in the force, it is important to put such a modern context by employing modern on record that the vast majority of gardaı´, often management techniques which are vital in any serving in difficult circumstances when the secur- large-scale, evolving organisation. ity of the State was under threat, have rendered The legislation also recognises for the first time an enormous service to the country over the that gardaı´ are not simply involved in enforcing years. I support the Garda Sıóchańa in that role. justice on the streets but in many instances pro- Its members generally have earned the trust and vide a service to the community. This is not just confidence of the community at large and they the case in crime prevention or detection but in are to be commended for having done so. many other areas also. As service providers, the If I can be parochial for a moment, I compli- Garda Sıóchańa requires appropriate admin- ment gardaı´ in the Limerick division on the excel- istration techniques to manage an organisation lent work they have done over the years, includ- which provides such a valuable community ing recently when serious problems arose service. concerning gangland crime. The part of the Bill that deals with manage- Chapter 4 of the Bill deals with joint policing ment and administration also deals with the committees, about which previous speakers have relationship between the Garda Sıóchańa and the commented. I welcome the introduction of a col- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, laboration between the Garda Sıóchańa and local specifically through the Garda Commissioner. authorities. I have been of the view for a long This is a welcome development because for far time that while gardaı´ have to deal with the mani- too long, over many decades, there was a blurring festation of crime, in many cases local authorities, of the lines of command between the Com- and nobody else, have been the cause of crime missioner and the Minister. This in turn led to that is so prevalent throughout the country. This much questioning of the relative roles of both is particularly so concerning anti-social behaviour individuals, the Minister of the day and the Garda which may be caused by poor planning, bad hous- Commissioner. There were suggestions that there ing and the lack of appropriate facilities for resi- had been a politicisation of the force in years dents in local authority accommodation. All local gone by. Thankfully, however, those suggestions authorities have made such decisions but the are not currently made in public discourse. None- results of some of them have been absolutely dis- theless, it is a welcome development that the astrous. The Bill’s proposal for a new connection respective roles of the Minister, the Department between local authorities and the Garda Sıóchańa and the Garda Sıóchańa will be placed on a clear can only be for the greater good. There has been and firm statutory footing as a result of this much debate on whether there should be local legislation. community involvement on the new policing Another major aspect of the Bill, as identified committees. For the time being, however, the by Deputy Curran, is the establishment of the Minister has rejected that idea. I ask the Minister Garda Sıóchańa ombudsman commission, which of State to accept that even if the Minister is not has been long awaited. A number of high profile minded to allow a community involvement, he cases and incidents over the past few years have should at least provide those joint policing com- unfortunately undermined the trust and confi- mittees with the statutory power to invite in at dence which people generally have in the Garda some stage, on a temporary basis, community Sıóchańa. The proposed commission will be help- leaders who can assist them in their duties. ful in maintaining that trust and, I hope, enhanc- Because we are dealing with the gardaı´,itis ing it in future, as well as proving the public’s co- appropriate to say a few words about anti-social operation upon which gardaı´ depend every day. behaviour, a topical theme. The matter will be As I said, gardaı´ are not just enforcers of justice addressed in the Criminal Justice Bill and we will but also service providers for the community. In discuss it then, but it is important to mention it in this role, they need an independent body through the context of the current undermining of Garda which their work can be monitored and, if neces- morale by anti-social behaviour. The gardaı´ I sary, investigated independently of the Garda meet are dealing with serious gangland issues in Sıóchańa. The Bill is strong on this point. Limerick, with multiple murders and with people Although it did not appear in the first legislat- who will stop at nothing to undermine the gardaı´. ive draft, I welcome in particular the aspects of While they deal with such issues they cannot deal the Bill which will allow the inspectorate to inves- with those which concern the vast majority of tigate matters of its own volition arising from people, namely anti-social behaviour, public 1561 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1562 order offences and so on, issues discussed at tribunal findings. It is not enough for him or the length in the House in recent weeks. That has Government to say that we should wait for the undermined Garda morale and needs to be tribunal’s conclusions. What has emerged so far addressed. is worrying enough and requires an immediate On a recent cold, wet, winter night I attended response. The Minister should be challenged on a meeting with over 300 Limerick citizens acutely why he is not reacting more strongly to the rev- concerned with anti-social behaviour. Gardaı´ elations. repeatedly told me they felt powerless to address In the past weeks an audit has been published the issue because they could not criminalise by the human rights working group. Regarding young people of ten, 11, 12, 13 and 14 as it is not ever-changing Irish society in terms of its make- a criminal offence to “merely” apply graffiti, bully up, the report says emphatically that the Garda children going to and from school, break windows has difficulty responding to problems which can and so on. These are not “crimes” which can be lead to institutional racism. The Garda Com- dealt with in the normal course of events by the missioner has fully accepted the findings of the District Court, which is why I welcome the pro- audit and has put in place a timetable for ensur- posed introduction of anti-social behaviour ing its recommendations are implemented. orders. They will not be a panacea, but gardaı´ tell Unfortunately, however, the timetable runs to the me they need to be able to give a “yellow card” end of 2007. Questions need to be asked regard- or clear signal to people who propose to engage ing why the prioritisation is being made at Garda in anti-social behaviour that they have been Commissioner level in the manner it is being warned, and that if they continue to engage in it made. It seems to me and many others that the they will enter criminal rather than civil spheres. recommendations should be implemented It is right that the gardaı´ are given such support. immediately. An opportunity is being lost to stop I had hoped to address many other issues but some of the attitudes highlighted by the indepen- have not got the time. I will address them when dent audit becoming entrenched. the Criminal Justice Bill comes before the House. When I read press reporting of the audit I was reminded of a sketch from a British television Mr. Boyle: I am happy to have the opportunity comedy show in the 1980s, “Not the Nine to contribute to this debate. All in the House O’Clock News”, which featured two British pol- recognise the need for new, all-embracing legis- icemen talking to each other. One was being lation dealing with the organisation of the Garda scolded by a superior officer for arresting a per- Sıóchańa, and we welcome the opportunity of son on more than 150 occasions on ridiculous recognising the service the force has given to the trumped-up charges such as impersonating a State since its foundation. human being, crossing a footpath in a reckless We need to consider the detail of this Bill. fashion, and breaking and entering an egg. This Those on this side of the House, at least, need to was satire, reflecting the existing attitudes in the argue about some of what has been proposed not being what is needed, and wrong prioritisation of British police force at the time. We have not issues regarding what can and should be done. properly adapted to the changing Ireland in fail- We have already had a long debate on this Bill ing to anticipate that such attitudes could and but it has facilitated further information on what perhaps do exist, and accepting that proper safe- modern policing means in Ireland. Sometimes, guards can and should be put in place. The audit such information is not what we like to hear. has played a useful role in that regard. The Mini- While the gardaı´ are entrusted by us to enforce ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should, the highest standards of law, and the law itself, it in terms of his relationship with the Garda Com- is unrealistic to expect a pristine police force missioner and his accountability to this House, because a force reflects the society it serves. allow us the opportunity to see how the reform Unfortunately, we are exposed in our police timetable is being enforced and give us regular force to some of the worst reflections of the reports on whether the problems in the police behaviour which exists in society in general, and force continue to exist or are being finally as public representatives we need to know how stamped out. that can be minimised, eliminated and guarded I will move on to more positive areas when I against so it does not re-occur in the future. get the following off my chest. An unfortunate Those who listened to the re-enactment of the aspect of debating the need to make the Garda Morris tribunal would wonder why there is not Sıóchańa into the best possible police force it can a wider debate about what seem to be systemic be is the sometimes negative attitude taken by problems regarding the Garda Sıóchańa pro- garda representative bodies, with any type of motion system, the perceived need to provide criticism seen as requiring a negative response. high-profile so-called crime convictions which Most members of the Garda Sıóchańa believe in turn out not to involve crimes, and the develop- and support the need for reforms, and are willing ment of networks in terms of how people can to participate in them. We need a climate push themselves forward as individuals within the whereby such support exists. Otherwise, the atti- Garda Sıóchańa. tude we have seen taken in the past by various The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Ministers of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to Reform has not responded properly to the Morris the ordinary membership of the Garda Sıóchańa 1563 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1564

[Mr. Boyle.] how operations have changed within the Garda, might bring about difficulties. We have seen that people do not meet or see gardaı´. Despite the in instances such as the “blue ’flu”. additional gardaı´,onaper capita basis numbers The central proposal in the Garda Sıóchańa are fewer because we have a greater population Bill is to establish an ombudsman commission to and proportionately fewer gardaı´. Those gardaı´ deal with complaints against gardaı´. Many we have do more work behind the scenes and less members of the Opposition feel that a three-per- on the street. Unless we get that balance right, son commission dilutes and diffuses its effec- public confidence in the ability to have effective tiveness. policing will be badly undermined. I do not wish to denigrate my constituency col- The Bill is very unclear as to who will be part league, the Minister of State at the Department of the joint committees and how they will be of the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- reported. More importantly, it is not at all clear ment, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe, who is sitting in for as to how effective they may be. There are several the Government side, but I had hoped the Mini- layers of so-called consultation on many aspects ster of State at the Department of Justice, of Government business, both at local govern- Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Brian ment and national level. As public representa- Lenihan, would have remained in the Chamber. I tives few of us have confidence in those consulta- was going to use him as an example because as tive procedures because they are not part of his brief with the Departments of Justice, consultations. They are talking shops and have Equality and Law Reform and Health and Chil- some legal recognition, but there is no process dren, he was responsible for the introduction of involved in many of these bodies whereby people an ombudsman for children. In that regard the can go in, register complaints and see those com- same debate occurred on the question of whether plaints acted on. The mechanisms do not seem to a person or a commission should head a well be in place to act on such complaints. If the resourced and well staffed office. The recom- policing committees only exist in that form, I am mendations in respect of an ombudsman for chil- dubious as to whether the type of public support dren came down heavily on the side of it being needed to make them effective will exist. Similar one person with a focus, someone who would bodies exist in Britain and Northern Ireland and take on responsibility for how the office would seem to be effective. However, what is being pro- run and on whom accountability would focus. posed here and what exists there seem to be The Government is sending mixed messages in different animals. There is a reluctance to go the saying there can and should be one ombudsman extra inch to make bodies that would be effect in terms of administrative affairs and one for chil- and inspire public confidence. dren, but that for the Garda there must be an On the role of the Garda and young people, ombudsman commission with three members. it is unfortunate that the benchmarks that seem There is also a question about whether the important in the Department of the current Mini- powers given to this commission will be suf- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform are the ficiently effective. They will not exist to the level moneys spent on the creation of additional prison of the police ombudsman in Northern Ireland. It spaces. There does not appear to be any balance is a strange irony that in terms of inspections and in his equation as to how that money can or on-the-spot inspections a body such as the should be better spent. Council of Europe committee for the prevention In the debate on additional Garda places there of torture has rights to access any Garda station does not appear to be any debate on how the juv- in the country at any time, yet this power will not enile liaison scheme can be strengthened, exist for the ombudsman commission in terms of whether more people should be involved at that its regulatory role with the Garda. level or whether there should be more face to The proposal for the joint committees is wel- face interaction with young people. It is recog- come. Previous speakers mentioned the problems nised that young men from their teenage years of anti-social behaviour. Another Cork colleague, to their mid-20s commit the largest proportion of Deputy Kelleher, is in the Chamber. We are all crime and that these form the largest proportion aware of the situation of my Green Party col- of our prison population. It is no accident that league in Cork city with regard to community the propensity to commit crime and to draw these policing and the anti-social behaviour in his part people into the cycle of crime in their communi- of the city. This is not unusual to him or his ties is considerably lessened where there is inter- locality. It exists in every community. The diffi- action and intervention and when resources are culty is that highlighting the incidence of anti- allocated. However, we seem not to want that social behaviour seems to invite other anti-social type of debate, to make those choices or put the behaviour. The role that the police can and resources in place. should play in this is a legitimate part of this In my experience as a youth worker I found it debate. frustrating that even when initiatives were put in The debate comes down to the fundamental place, such as divergence schemes with regard to aspects of the nature of policing. The Govern- joyriding, they were always on a pilot basis and ment, in this debate and throughout its term of there was always uncertainty about their future. office, continues to trot out statistics about more In many instances the schemes were not con- gardaı´ and more resources. However, because of tinued beyond a pilot basis. Using the cliche´ of 1565 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1566

Tony Blair, if we are serious about being tough and meet other parliamentarians. Following these on crime and on the causes of crime, we must contacts, it is evident the Garda has great integ- examine both sides of this social equation. I do rity and few people can claim it has experienced not believe the current Minister for Justice, endemic corruption, unlike other forces, even Equality and Law Reform is capable of doing within the European Union. The payment of on- that. He seems to have a particular myopia in the-spot fines has led to corruption as drivers terms of what crime is and how it should be have avoided speeding fines by putting a few euro tackled. Unfortunately, how he proposes to struc- in their driving licences when they are stopped. ture the Garda Sıóchańa is part of that myopia. Such a practice cannot be associated with the The Taoiseach’s remark on the Order of Busi- Garda. ness the other day was also unfortunate. To be The force’s achievements must be highlighted, fair, it was probably meant in jest. However, the particularly in regard to crime. I pay tribute to implication that “roughing up” a young person is Mr. Adrian Culligan and all Garda members in an acceptable form of policing is not acceptable. Cork who have over the years remained steadfast I accept it might be acceptable to many people in in the fight against organised crime and crimi- society. In terms of wider politics it might even nality in general. As a result, Cork experiences be politically popular to say this. However, the few gangland murders and the heroin epidemic essence of policing is that the Garda must earn and attendant crime has been avoided. This is the respect and use respect to keep respect. The use result of the hands-on approach of the Garda in of violence in any form by those who uphold the Cork, which has ensured this insidious epidemic law invites, encourages and incites violence from has not spread to the city. The heroin epidemic people whom we are trying to discourage from has caused major problems in Dublin and it has breaking the law. It brings about an unending spread to provincial towns. The heroin drug cycle we do not want to see in society. I do not trade, which is the source of organised crime, believe this was the Taoiseach’s intention, but gangland killings and turf wars is not evident in such remarks, even when made in jest, can be Cork. taken seriously. I hope the Taoiseach takes up the However, abuse of other drugs is a problem in opportunity in debate to clear up that impression. Cork as in other areas. That must be tackled not The Green Party supports many aspects of this only by the Garda but through education and Bill. encouraging people to stay away from drugs. We are concerned about the Bill’s provisions Strong advertising campaigns are needed similar relating to the ombudsman commission and the to that used to counteract the consumption of joint committees, but the legislation can and alcohol by those under the legal age and binge should be improved. The philosophy drinking so that the insidious, negative aspects of 1 o’clock underpinning policing should be the drug use are highlighted. We cannot be com- subject of ongoing debate. The Bill placent, but I acknowledge the efforts of the plays a role in this regard but the debate should Garda in Cork in this regard. not cease once it has been passed. I refer to the Garda Ombudsman Commission. We are well served by our police force and we The debate is a worthwhile exercise. A number are probably better served in this regard than of tribunals of inquiry into the workings of the other countries, but that does not mean com- Garda in certain parts of the State have been held placency should set in when things go wrong and they have dented the public’s confidence in within the force. Unfortunately, many things are bringing forward complaints against Garda going wrong, even among the junior ranks, which members. If people are to take a positive view of are not being responded to appropriately. The the Garda, an outside body such as the proposed Government, particularly the Minister for Justice, commission to investigate complaints against Equality and Law Reform, should demonstrate members of the force is necessary. The com- greater political courage in tackling these issues mission will benefit the Garda as well as the to ensure proper public confidence. public, as it will ensure transparency and accountability. There is a perception that people are Mr. Kelleher: I welcome the opportunity to afraid to make complaints against members of the contribute to the debate, which is timely in the Garda. This is divisive and damaging in the con- context of the broader debate on the role of the text of community policing, to which I will refer Garda in society and societal changes. Reference later. has been made to anti-social behaviour and other People should have confidence in the Garda issues, to which I will refer later. There is a strong but, equally, they should be able to make a com- bond of trust between the Garda and the public. plaint against a member of the force without fear The Garda has served the State well since its of recrimination, safe in the knowledge that the inception and during difficult times the force’s complaint will be investigated thoroughly and loyalty to the State was very much to the fore independently and, more importantly, that when in preserving law and order and in ensuring the findings are produced, actions will be taken. The integrity of the State’s institutions was protected commission’s precursor was the Garda com- at all times. That must be highlighted continually. plaints board, which stated that changes would Comparisons have been made with other police have to be made in the way complaints against forces. As a Member, I travel around the world the Garda were addressed. 1567 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1568

[Mr. Kelleher.] policing for a few years but then gets out of it As society changes, difficulties are experienced, quickly and returns to the mainstream to deal particularly anti-social behaviour in urban areas, with and investigate crime to advance one’s which is an increasing problem. To be successful career. That must be addressed. in addressing anti-social behaviour, the individ- There is no continuity in community policing. uals involved must be turned away from this A member of the force is appointed as a com- behaviour and from criminality generally at an munity police officer for several years, a vacancy early stage and the Garda must examine its com- arises elsewhere, and that person is moved on munity policing function in this context. An again. If there were a community policing struc- assistant Garda commissioner should be ture in every division and a promotional pyramid appointed with responsibility for community right up to the position of assistant commissioner policing. Such policing is effective but, unfortu- with special responsibility for the field, that nately, it is a little haphazard because strong would have a great impact in the years following. structures are not in place. Gardaı´ involved in I have referred to anti-social behaviour. In community policing point out that if they want to Chapter 4 there is a reference to it regarding co- advance their careers and put themselves forward operation with local authorities and arrangements for promotion, they cannot engage in community for obtaining the views of the public. There is not policing for long periods because promotion will a public representative in this House who has not not come their way. A group similar to the pro- been on to the local sergeant or superintendent posed traffic corps should be established for com- regarding problems in estates. Often the prob- munity policing. This will allow officers to lems are because of bad planning and design as become heavily involved in the community. They well as high unemployment and other issues that could live in the community while availing of pro- eat into the fabric of society. Local authorities’ motional opportunities and they would not be housing policies must be examined if we are to seen as the bridesmaids of the Garda. have proper community policing, something that Gardaı´ who are involved in all facets of com- I hope will become more evident in Government munity life, including sports clubs, help to create policy as we move forward and recruit more a strong bond between the Garda and the public. gardaı´. Designing communities and putting Anti-social behaviour is experienced in estates throughout the State and there is evidence that a people from the same demographic, age profile Garda presence is lacking in them. Gardaı´ are and family make-up into a single area while mov- only seen at night in a car or if there is a major ing others elsewhere does nothing for the inte- disturbance. However, they must be visible within gration and cohesiveness of society. the community at all times if this problem is to I have long made a proposal to the city council be addressed. That is why the community policing in Cork which it has taken it on board to a certain issue must be explored in its entirety. extent. This was not simply because I proposed it Teachers can pinpoint at an early stage young- since it was obvious to all public representatives. sters who will drop out of school and will end The proposal was that every area should have an up in court and prison. An integrated approach integrated mix of elderly people, lone parents, involving gardaı´, home-school liaison officers and single people and families because, for example, school attendance officers could pinpoint these it would give support to a lone parent who would young people at an early stage. That could hap- be able to get assistance and advice from a person pen if the Garda Sıóchańa, through the com- who has raised a family. The supports that existed munity policing system, was closely involved in long ago are missing in some areas because they sporting and soccer clubs and also attended consist of one demographic or group. That is schools. I remember visiting schools where a pol- something local authorities have been slow to ice officer would speak and outline the workings address. They continually build housing units in of the Garda Sıóchańa. However, that is done on the same style and manner as they have done for an ad hoc basis. I speak of targeting police at years. There has been a slight change but such communities where there are difficulties and put- change must take place more rapidly. In future, ting forward the positive side of their calling. We when allocating houses, local authorities must do not want them to be seen as the enemy, but take into account the population make-up and unfortunately in some communities that is the consider whether there might be too many of a case. We have had a rise in vigilantism in certain certain age profile or family make-up in an area. parts of the country, although that is obviously This should be done in a positive manner to being encouraged by certain elements for other ensure a proper make-up in communities reasons of which we are all aware. Wherever everywhere. there is a vacuum, this issue can arise. It has been proven beyond doubt that where The recruitment campaign is evident at one has a group of similar people from whatever present, and there is talk of increasing the police age profile, it creates great difficulties. For force to 14,000. The majority of new members example, if all the people in an area are elderly, should be involved in community policing. That they cannot take advantage of the assistance of a would be seen as a positive opportunity for young person when going shopping, getting the members of the Garda Sıóchańa too. I do not like bus or keeping the garden clean. All these issues the idea that one becomes involved in community depend on people interacting with other age pro- 1569 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1570 files. The local authorities must address that. the Garda Sıóchańa have travelled overseas to Section 33 reads: work with the United Nations in Cyprus, Kosovo and elsewhere. They give a very positive profile A local authority shall, in performing its to the Garda Sıóchańa abroad. More importantly, functions, have regard to the need to take such the expertise they gain through learning from steps as may be practicable to assist in the other police forces should be encouraged. We reduction of crime, disorder and anti-social also welcome the idea of members of the PSNI behaviour within its area of responsibility. being able to work in the Garda Sıóchańa in the That is defined in Chapter 4, but local authorities Republic because they have vast experience of should be instructed, through Government policy other forms of criminality which are prevalent or otherwise, to ensure that the points that I have there. With the advance of terrorism and other highlighted are taken into account when they forms of organised criminality worldwide, they make policy decisions on housing, the develop- would also be able to give advice and bring ment of new estates or the rezoning of land. expertise to bear on the Garda Sıóchańa in deal- On the debate regarding anti-social behaviour ing with such activity. orders, there is no doubt that orders must be I wish the Bill well. I hope the proposed Garda addressed on several fronts. I will travel to Sıóchańa ombudsman commission will reassure Leicester in a few weeks to view at first hand anti- those who have complained that the public has a social behaviour orders that have been working lack of confidence and trust in the Garda Sıóch- there. On the face of it, where they have been ańa. The Garda deserves the restoration of trust enforced and resources given to the police and in the way it has served communities and the the local authorities, as in Leicester, they seem to country as a whole since its inception. have been positive and to have had a major The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law impact on the reduction of anti-social activity. If Reform needs to address community policing we are serious about addressing such behaviour, issues in a serious and coherent manner. If we we must introduce some proposals that will are to establish a traffic corps, perhaps we should remove the thugs and hooligans. consider establishing a branch of the Garda that Many people miss this point. It is important has a positive community policing role. Gardaı´ that, if one is dealing with the “gurrier” element should be allowed to take pride in that role, build in a group of people — if there are 15 on an expertise in the area of community policing over estate, only one or two might cause major prob- a number of years, benefit from promotional lems — by and large, they intimidate other prospects within the community policing service, younger people and bully them into getting build a strong bond with educational and sporting involved in anti-social activity. It is therefore not bodies, for example, by visiting schools, and simply a matter of dealing with the individual but ensure that there are no barriers between the about ensuring that, by removing someone and Garda and the public. Such a system of com- dealing with him or her fairly, one discourages munity policing would ensure that young people others from getting involved. We are all aware of have a healthy respect for the force and under- situations where one or two hard men in an area stand that the Garda patrols local areas to ensure bully others into getting involved in such things as that communities are safe from anti-social under age drinking, binge drinking and, perhaps, behaviour. drugs and petty crime. The same is true of anti- I hope some of the points I have made will be social behaviour and we must address that taken on board, not only in the context of the Bill quickly. before the House but also in the context of the We are not talking about people between the Government’s future policy. ages of 19 and 23 but those who are 12, 13 or 14. They make life a misery for large sections of Mr. P. McGrath: I welcome the opportunity to communities, especially in urban areas where address the House on the Garda Sıóchańa Bill gangs of youths congregate in corners of estates, 2004. I compliment the Garda on the service it alleyways or outside community centres and play- has given to the community over the decades. grounds to intimidate others. The argument is The force will celebrate its centenary within a few always made that we do not have enough facilities years and I hope that will be a joyous occasion. for young people, and we certainly always strive Some wise decisions were taken when the Garda to ensure we have more. That said, there are sit- was established in the early 1920s, following the uations where youths hang around outside com- foundation of the State. Those who decided, at a munity centres where free games might be avail- time of terrible conflict and civil war, that the able to them along with floodlit soccer pitches force should be unarmed were far-sighted. They and tennis and basketball courts, yet they are out- established a force of which we can be proud. side causing problems, intimidating young people I should declare an interest at this point — my and discouraging them from partaking in such father was one of the early members of the activity. Garda, having joined the force in the 1920s. He On Chapter 7, the Garda Sıóchańa’s inter- served in the force for 43 years, until he was 65 national service through co-operation with other years of age, which would not be possible now- police forces and the United Nations has adays. He continued to give active service until expanded in recent years and many members of that time. It has been decreed that gardaı´ now 1571 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004 : 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1572

[Mr. P. McGrath.] in which he works, the name of which I will not have to retire at the age of 57, irrespective of the mention, as “wonderful” and states that he was skills they can offer to the force or the com- “very contented” in his chosen profession until munity. I grew up in a rural community, where the last few months. He continues: my father worked as a policeman. The local gardaı´ were very much part of the community and I would be widely accepted by my own teach- knew about everything that happened there. The ing colleagues and the vast majority of my level of crime there was non-existent. I attribute students as a teacher of the highest calibre. I the lack of crime to the fact that the police were treat all my students with respect, I have excel- so involved in local communities, as I have lent class discipline, I prepare my work mentioned. thoroughly, I give regular tests which are The Acting Chairman, Deputy Sherlock, is of always returned the following day, I have a the same generation as me and I am sure he great sense of humour and engage in easy ban- learned all about the blessed trinity of the father, ter with my classes, my exam results are always the son and the holy spirit, just as I did. The above national average, I have always figured blessed trinity of the parish priest, the school highly in extra curricular activities . . . . . I have master and the Garda sergeant was much more always gone the extra mile for the students of relevant to those of us living in rural Ireland in this school without ever giving it a second those times. Such people comprised the active thought. In the last week, my boss asked me to force in our lives and communities. If one stepped do something for the students outside of class out of line in any way, such people would be time. I said no for the first time ever. charged with putting one back in one’s place. My reputation and that of a number of my I compliment the Garda on the success of the colleagues has been shredded by the comments difficult job it has done over the years. We should made by anonymous people on this cheap be particularly proud of the job it did in the entertainment website . . . . . Personally, I feel 1970s. We could well have been overrun if suc- betrayed and disillusioned. l have made myself cessive Ministers of that era had not taken a firm a promise which will be very difficult to fulfil, stand and if the members of the Garda had not that I will do nothing extracurricular for my put their lives at risk to save our country. We students until the day this website is removed should not forget the gardaı´ who lost their lives from our system. I will still give 100% in my in the service of the State, while preserving the classwork as I have always done..... peace and prosperity of its citizens. In the last two days, I have heard of instances Times are changing dramatically. The manage- where students have openly stated that they ment structures which existed in the Garda in the would get their own back on teachers after a past will not continue to work in modern times. run-in with them. In one case, the teacher con- The management techniques and resources which cerned had had a clash with a student in a jun- are used need to be refocused and replaced with ior hurling match outside of school. Are we more modern methods which are geared to the looking at the appalling scenario of students needs of contemporary society. Some forms of bullying teachers into going easy on them in crime are perpetrated by those using the facilities school for fear of retribution? Will our young of the electronic age. I refer to theft facilitated by teachers court popularity so as to get good the scanning of credit cards, for example. Some ratings? forms of behaviour which might not superficially be seen as criminal can do tremendous damage The teacher in question went on to quote some by harming communities. of the personal comments which have been made I would like to draw the attention of the Mini- about teachers on the website. Indeed, the web- ster for Defence to a problem that has been site now features personal comments about brought to my attention. As a man of the people, students. Some terrible comments have been I am sure the Minister, Deputy O’Dea, has enco- made about some female students. untered the problem in question. I refer to the I do not know what we can do about this mod- establishment of a new website, www.ratemytea- ern phenomenon — my hands are tied. Perhaps chers.ie. I do not know what society can do to the Minister, Deputy O’Dea, will draw attention make the website illegal. I recently received a let- at Cabinet level to this matter to see what can ter about the website from somebody I know very be done. It is outrageous that such behaviour is well. The letter demonstrates the tremendous tolerated in this day and age. Perhaps it is an hurt felt by a man who is heavily involved in the example of something modern that we have failed life of his community and is doing a good job. to keep pace with. We are unable to keep up with People like the Acting Chairman, the Minister, modern technology. We need to examine how we Deputy Kelleher and me face the challenge of can outlaw websites of this nature, or at least do responding to such people, who are doing a good something about them. The presence of such job in society. We need to continue to support websites will lead to the loss of the support of them and to preserve their work ethic. teachers who are currently prepared to go the I would like to quote from the letter I received, extra mile. They will become disillusioned and which was sent by a man who has been teaching start to withdraw the care they are giving at mathematics for 28 years. He refers to the school present. 1573 Priority 20 April 2005. Questions 1574

This problem is found in many walks of life, as Mr. Hogan: The Minister knows that in this I realised while speaking to a concerned com- House, Fine Gael has proposed a method by munity garda the other day. I agree with every- which there can be a consumer voice — the con- thing Deputy Kelleher said about community sumer rights enforcer. The Government voted policing. He was absolutely correct. this down on the basis that it would bring forward its own proposals. That is taking a considerable Debate adjourned. length of time and in the meantime, consumers are very frustrated with the level of unwarranted Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at cost increases that are little more than deliberate 2.30 p.m. extortion in many sectors. To prevent any more frustration on the part of consumers, will the Ceisteanna — Questions (Resumed). Minister adopt an ombudsman approach for them so they can have the opportunity to make complaints and seek redress where possible? The Priority Questions. institutional consumer voice the Minister mentioned should not take long to set up because he ———— has the full support of this side of the House for such a proposal. Consumer Strategy Group. Did the Minister present the consumer strategy 63. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for group report to the Cabinet yesterday? Why has Enterprise, Trade and Employment when the it not been published? Are there problems at report of the consumer strategy group will be Cabinet level on agreeing an overall consumer published; if he will outline the report’s recom- strategy in accordance with the report? mendations, if he intends to implement the report in full; and if he will make a statement on the Mr. Martin: It has been presented to Cabinet matter. [12264/05] and is being deliberated on at Cabinet level. It is still on the Cabinet agenda. That is normal; we Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- cannot expect Cabinet to endorse reports on the ment (Mr. Martin): The consumer strategy group nod. People want to interrogate the proposals presented its final report to me on 2 March 2005. and will have perspectives on them. It is being The report contains more than 30 recommend- seriously considered. ations involving a variety of Departments and agencies. I am currently considering the report Only last week, the Minister of State, Deputy and its recommendations in conjunction with my Michael Ahern, introduced the Investment colleagues in Government. I expect to publish the Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions report and to announce my plans to progress the Bill in the Seanad. That Bill incorporates seven recommendations in the coming weeks. sections that raise the level of penalties in the core consumer legislation enforced by the Office Mr. Hogan: Will the Minister elaborate on the of the Director of Consumer Affairs, such as the contents of the report since he has had it since 2 Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, March? Why has it taken the Minister so long to the Consumer Information Act 1978, the Package publish the report and to let us know the precise Holidays and Travel Trade Act 1995, the nature of these recommendations to ensure we National Standards Authority of Ireland Act have a consumer policy at Government level for 1996, the Restrictive Practices Act 1972, the the first time? Prices Act 1958, the Consumer Credit Act 1995. The Director of Consumer Affairs who had Mr. Martin: When a report comes to Govern- raised the issue of the low level of penalties in ment it should be seriously considered and there consumer legislation in two consecutive annual are significant recommendations in the report reports recommended all of that. that require a collective Government response. I Inflation is running at 2.1% as a result of a want to be in a position when the report is pub- range of concerted Government actions. We have lished to indicate the Government’s position on a made significant progress on holding back the number of headline issues. There are around 30 tide of inflation. recommendations, some of which can be progressed over time. Mr. Hogan: I am glad the Minister mentioned The report supports the view that there is a the legislation introduced in the Seanad last need for a strong institutional voice for the con- week. It is very unusual to insert miscellaneous sumer in terms of policy formulation and makes sections into a Bill to deal with the many con- the point that such a voice is absent at present. It sumer interests listed. has strong opinions on the Groceries Order and Why has it taken so long for the Government takes a position on it that is widely known — it to adjudicate on the Groceries Order when it has will recommend that the order be lifted. In substantially increased the amount of money a addition, it recommends how the proposed con- person can be fined for a breach of the order in sumer voice could represent the consumer in sub- this new legislation? The fine now stands at up missions to regulators. I want to deal with such to \60,000, up from \1,000. Surely it is accepted issues with my Cabinet colleagues. Government practice that if the fines for the 1575 Priority 20 April 2005. Questions 1576

[Mr. Hogan.] The labour inspectorate, and the individuals breach of an order are being increased, the order therein, are very much to the fore in seeking com- itself will be retained. pliance with employment rights legislation and, as such, interact at a range of levels in the work- Mr. Martin: Some public commentators tried place, i.e., with migrant workers, young people, to make that point recently but they were being the low-paid and the full range of management disingenuous. This Bill covers a broad tranche of within the workplace. Accordingly, the inspector- consumer legislation at the behest of the Director ate requires particular skills and this need has of Consumer Affairs. All of the Acts I listed are been addressed in the recent past through special- affected by the increase in penalties and fines. In ised training provided in the context of the per- no way, however, can that be interpreted as an formance management and development system indication of the Government’s position on operating in the Department. Examples of the retaining or abolishing the Groceries Order. structured and formalised training delivered specifically to the labour inspectorate in recent Mr. Hogan: Why were the fines increased? years would range from courtroom skills, competency development packages, specialised driver Mr. Martin: We increased the fines across a raft training, racism awareness and the safe pass train- of consumer legislation. That is standard practice ing scheme to enable them operate on building for any existing legislation. It does not indicate sites. A particular emphasis has been maintained anything. The Attorney General has advised that on team building and working within the inspec- in the event of repealing the Groceries Order, torate, given that it operates in a team format primary legislation would be required. That with work distributed accordingly. option will be considered once the Government The discussion document has been well deals with the Groceries Order. received among the social partners, with some comments received and others awaited, although Mr. Hogan: It is an unsatisfactory method of initial favourable views have been made known. dealing with it — inserting a miscellaneous An interactive phase on the discussion document section into a Bill that has nothing to do with it. will get under way shortly whereby the range of choices will be narrowed down. Mr. Martin: It is common practice. The inspectorate does a difficult job in an Labour Inspectorate. efficient and courteous manner and it always projects the Department’s core principals of seeking 64. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for to ensure compliance with the employment rights Enterprise, Trade and Employment if a report entitlements of workers, regardless of whether prepared by officials of his Department found they are Irish or migrant workers. Compliance is that lack of staff, resources, training and legal achieved by means of advice, guidance, resti- support was hampering the pursuit of employers tution of moneys due, with \486,000 recovered in who exploit their workers; the steps being taken 2004 and, ultimately, prosecutions, with 14 to address this situation, particularly in view of initiated in 2004. increasing reports of exploitation of foreign workers; and if he will make a statement on the Mr. Howlin: I welcomed the appointment of matter. [12263/05] the Minister of State not so long ago, but I am Minister of State at the Department of afraid he has reverted to Department speak very Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. quickly after his appointment. I ask him to Killeen): Arising from paragraph 12.4 of the mid- address the questions asked in my priority ques- term review of Sustaining Progress, and to assist tion. Is it not a fact, and will the Minister not in the preparation of proposals for consideration acknowledge, that the labour inspectorate in this by Government, the labour inspectorate prepared internal review stated that it was prevented from a discussion document on its mandate and properly policing the minimum wage and other resourcing. This comprehensive document was employment rights? Is that not a vindication of a circulated to the social partners in January of this position I have taken over many months with him year so that their views could be obtained. and his Department? Is it not now the case that The discussion document covered all issues there is an unanswerable case for a significant that impact on the operation of the labour inspec- increase in the number of labour inspectors? torate, ranging from the legislative framework When will we see those labour inspectors on the right through to the operational aspects and staff ground? Is it not a fact also that in the review the development. It also looked at a range of possi- Minister acknowledges exists the labour inspec- bilities around the operation of the labour inspectors said they had seldom if ever had their full torate and offered a spectrum of possibilities, complement of 21 available to them? Is it not ranging from a compliance regime where the almost a scandal that in a workforce now in initiative would move more toward the complain- excess of 2 million, 21 people, even if all were ant, with the labour inspectorate offering support, on active duty at any given time, are expected to to a model where the right of initiative would be enforce an increasingly complicated labour with the labour inspectorate, which would have a market with increasingly complicated labour hands-on approach. laws? Is it not a fact that the dereliction of the 1577 Priority 20 April 2005. Questions 1578

Department in providing adequate policing has slowly, being addressed. We need to send out a led directly to the climate of tolerance of exploi- strong message from this House that those tation we have witnessed recently? employers who continue to exploit their workers will eventually be brought to court and dealt with Mr. Killeen: As I said, the labour inspectorate’s under the processes of law. report was circulated to the social partners in January. As the Deputy will be aware, and as I Mr. Howlin: Not with an inadequate policing said previously in response to his questions, up to system. last year the number of labour inspectors was 17. There were some difficulties last year because Mr. Killeen: A doubling of the numbers some of them were involved in work associated involved in the labour inspectorate in a very short with the European Presidency. The number was time is not a bad achievement. increased following the mid-term review to 21 inspectors and it was announced last week that it National Workplace Strategy. will increase to 32 in total, which in terms of the number available in 2004 is a substantial increase. 65. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for I acknowledge that the trade unions, particularly Enterprise, Trade and Employment his plans for SIPTU, have argued strongly for an increase in the delivery of a national workplace strategy, as the number of labour inspectors and I am glad outlined in a recent report of the Forum on the the Government is able to accede to that request. Workplace of the Future, particularly in relation to the work and life balance aspects of the report; Mr. Howlin: Will the Minister acknowledge and if he will make a statement on the matter. that the proof of the pudding is what happens on [12452/05] the ground? Is it not a fact that the number of Mr. Killeen: The Taoiseach launched the inspections dropped from 7,168 in 2003 to 5,160 Report of the Forum on the Workplace of the last year, a decrease of approximately 2,000 Future on 9 March 2005. The report contains 42 inspections? Is it not a fact also that prosecutions separate recommendations, which form the basis have fallen from 20 in 2003 to 14 last year? We for a national workplace strategy. The strategy are going backwards and the notion that all is aims to create a climate conducive to supporting well or will soon be well is to give a nod if not a change and new forms of work organisation at wink to the climate of exploitation that has been national and organisational level. unearthed in cases such as that involving Gama A high level group comprising senior represen- workers or the Filipino woman who was expected \ tatives of a number of Departments, ICTU, IBEC to work for 1 an hour on an Irish Ferries vessel and semi-State agencies and bodies will oversee operating out of my constituency. Will the Mini- the appropriate implementation of the national ster not acknowledge that there is an urgent need, workplace strategy, including aspects relating to in the increasingly complicated labour market in work-life balance. I have been asked by the operation in our country, to have a vigorous Taoiseach to chair this group and I expect to con- policing system? Will he not acknowledge also vene a meeting of the group in the next few that it is pointless in Members of this House weeks. enacting legislation to protect workers if there is little prospect of it being enforced on the ground? Mr. Eamon Ryan: I welcome the report but we have heard the same comment for many years. In Mr. Killeen: A number of lessons arise from 1997, the OECD Ministers, including our own, the points made by Deputy Howlin and indeed said they would put a particular urgency on trying adverted to by almost every Member of the to bring flexible work arrangements and work- House. There is no doubt that there are life balance into the workplace. In 2002, the then employers who will exploit their workers but a Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, the Minister of second and important lesson is that the labour State’s predecessor, said that providing flexibility inspectorate eventually catches up with those was an essential part of the labour market supply. people—— The Taoiseach and the Minister of State, at the Mr. Howlin: It did not. launch of this latest report, again emphasised the competitive as well as social advantages we would Mr. Killeen: ——and prepares reports which get from providing a more flexible system, but ultimately have to be placed before the courts. what do we have in reality? A central part of policy of the Progressive Mr. Howlin: Only the whistleblowers caught up Democrats friends of the Minister, Deputy with them, thank God. Martin, is that we use schools from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. to try to get some flexibility into our lives, Mr. Killeen: The Deputy will acknowledge, as without anyone having asked a child whether that will anybody who is familiar with the law here, might be a clever policy in the long run. The cur- that one is required to present evidence in court rent Parental Leave Bill gives nothing in addition and produce people who are prepared to give that and could have been written by the worst evidence. That has been a difficulty heretofore elements of IBEC, who do not believe in provid- but it is one that is gradually, and perhaps too ing any practical benefits for people. What practi- 1579 Priority 20 April 2005. Questions 1580

[Mr. Eamon Ryan.] Mr. Killeen: Nevertheless, the group undertook cal legislative measure does the Minister intend a very difficult job and is to be lauded for having to proceed with immediately to fulfil the commit- formulated its report and recommendations. A ment given in the seven years this Government vision was presented of a future workplace which has been in office? What other additional is agile, customer-centred, knowledge intensive, measures in terms of maternity leave, parental responsive to employee needs, networked, highly leave, flexible working conditions and ability to productive, involved and participatory, continu- engage in term work and part-time work does the ally learning and proactively diverse. It is the kind Minister of State intend to legislate for or is it all of workplace we all aspire to create. I am pre- just talk from the Government on this issue? pared to give the report every chance and to work closely with the social partners and others to Mr. Killeen: I acknowledge the considerable deliver the quality of workplace envisaged. work that was done in preparing this report and the fact that it arises from the deliberations of the Job Losses. social partners, among others. We sometimes fail 66. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for to acknowledge the value of social partnership. I Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will thought the Deputy might say that I was one of address immediately the erosion of Ennis as an the least qualified people to be chairperson of the industrial base with the recent announcement group in view of the type of unfriendly working that a company (details supplied) will close with hours Members of the House undertake on an the loss of 131 jobs; if a new industrial investment ongoing basis. To some extent it is perhaps a programme for Ennis in conjunction with matter of saying, “Do as I say and not as I do”. Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland and Shannon It is true, however, that the findings of the report Development will be developed as a matter of set the agenda for the future in terms of work-life urgency to address the lack of investment in the balance. We have a tradition of partnership which town over the past 15 years to prevent Ennis from must be developed. It offers the opportunity to becoming a dormitory town; and if he will make significantly improve work-life balance in the a statement on the matter. [12265/05] workplace. I welcome the fact that the social part- Mr. Martin: I was disappointed to hear of the ners have been so proactive in this regard and recent decision by the company in question to reached a considerable level of agreement, partic- cease production at its Ennis-based manufactur- ularly when one examines the 42 recommend- ing facility. The company employs 44 permanent ations in the report. I look forward to imple- and 87 temporary staff in its manufacturing oper- menting the recommendations which are directly ation and I understand the positions will be within the aegis of the Department of Enterprise, phased out over a 12 to 18 month period. The Trade and Employment and to encouraging other European sales and marketing team of 15 staff, Departments in the areas of their responsibilities. which is also based in Ennis, is not affected by the decision. The job losses are the result of the Mr. Eamon Ryan: To be practical, on the issue company’s decision to consolidate production at of parental leave, for example, the Minister its facilities in the United States of America rightly said we have a social partnership model where it already has surplus capacity. here. In the negotiation on that Bill, which is one This day last week, a meeting of the Industry aspect of the type of work-life balance arrange- Ennis group, which was formed in 2000, took ments we could set in place, IBEC almost ruled place to discuss employment in Ennis. The out any possible changes despite the fact that we group’s primary function is to support and, where are one of the few countries in the European possible, augment the services of the develop- Union that does not allow for paid parental leave. ment agencies which operate in the area, includ- Our provisions in that regard run completely ing IDA Ireland, Shannon Development and the Clare County Enterprise Board. The outcome of counter to the intent of the report he has just the meeting was a decision by the group to lauded. How can the Minister explain the develop a strategy to address employment in Government, on the one hand, talking up work- Ennis. The strategy will build on the group’s work life balance and trying to provide for quality of with State agencies to continue to promote Ennis life while, on the other, legislation yet to be through initiatives such as the Clare consul prog- passed by the House provides nothing in that ramme, which targets successful business people direction? with Clare connections, and foreign direct investment itineraries. Mr. Killeen: As Deputies will be aware, there Industry Ennis has helped 20 companies to have been considerable improvements in legis- create 358 jobs, of which 280 are established, with lation in a number of areas in recent years. the remainder to be filled in the coming months. Deputy Ryan might say that the rate of progress The live register shows a decrease in Ennis of 130 has been much slower than he and others would people in the year-on-year position at March like. 2005. The reduction reflects the success to date of various initiatives for the area. Last year, Ennis Mr. Eamon Ryan: “Pathetic” is the word. benefited from investment decisions by Organic 1581 Priority 20 April 2005. Questions 1582

Lens, which decided to add to its existing oper- such as five in one business and ten in another. ation, and Monster Cable, which announced a Jobs are also created through the more substan- new project for the town. Organic Lens will tial projects announced, for example, by Monster implement a \6.5 million programme of invest- Cable and Organic Lens. ment to develop its manufacturing operation A town like Ennis cannot be considered in iso- which will create 100 jobs while Monster Cable lation. The live register shows a decrease which will establish a shared-services centre which will indicates that there is less unemployment in the create 50 jobs. town than there was this time last year. The town Shannon Development has recently completed must be viewed in a regional context and in terms the construction of phase 1 of the information age of the spatial plan through which IDA Ireland is park in Ennis, which is its fifth knowledge-net- marketing the region for investment and Ennis as work location in the mid-west. The park consti- a hub town, and will continue to do so. Through tutes an overall investment of \12.5 million in the work of Shannon Development, there will be land, infrastructure and buildings and will provide a continuing focus on growing indigenous busi- 46,000 square feet of world-class incubation, nesses in the Shannon area, including Ennis. expansion and own-door office accommodation When I was in China recently, I worked with in an urban park environment on the outskirts of Shannon Development, which organised a sem- the town. The investment marks the first phase of inar to make a presentation to a number of a significant development for Ennis and, as part interested parties of information on the company of it, Shannon Development will relocate its and the way in which it organises and supports regional office for Clare to the park. It is antici- indigenous enterprise in the mid-west. pated that over \100 million will be invested in the park by the public and private sectors over Mr. P. Breen: Will the Minister undertake in the next 15 years. his Department an investment programme which I am satisfied that the combined efforts of the specifically targets Ennis? It is his responsibility development agencies together with the work of to promote enterprise, trade and employment. Industry Ennis will be sufficient to address the The manufacturing industry in the town con- needs of the town. I look forward to examining tinues to be eroded. While I acknowledge that the forthcoming strategy for the area. the information age park which was opened last month is a fine facility, we need jobs for it which Mr. P. Breen: While the Minister provided we are not getting. The Minister mentioned statistics on overall employment, there have been Industry Ennis, which is starved of the funding it over 570 job losses in Ennis in the past six years. needs to source and secure employment. While I As the Minister will know, Ennis is now the tenth acknowledge the establishment of Westpark Data largest town in Ireland with a population of Centre in Shannon for the database industry, 24,000, which will grow to 35,000 in 15 years. If which the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, people want to live there, they must want to work launched last week, it will benefit the whole mid- there also. While it is a fine town and the Minister west region, whereas I am calling for action on of State, Deputy Killeen, will open next week the Ennis specifically. While there are many small to Organic Lens extension which will provide extra medium enterprises in Ennis, job losses occur jobs, Ennis has not attracted the level of invest- among them also which we do not hear about. ment appropriate to a hub town. There are con- As the Minister has praised Ennis today, will he tinuing job losses and seven companies have consider a specific investment programme for closed in the past six years. What will the Minister the town? do about it? Did he come up with any plan during his recent visits to China and Australia? Mr. Martin: A considerable programme of investment in Ennis has been implemented across Mr. Martin: The Deputy has correctly iden- a range of Departments. tified that Ennis is a growth town, which it would not be if it were not a vibrant and attractive Mr. P. Breen: Where are the jobs? location. Mr. Martin: Investment in fixed infrastructure Mr. P. Breen: It is becoming a residential town. leads ultimately to the attraction of jobs to an area and economic growth. The Deputy men- Mr. Martin: It continues to grow as a genuine tioned the information age park, which is a very location for investment. Considerable restructur- significant investment for Ennis which, the ing is ongoing in the economy in the profiles of Deputy will agree, will constitute a significant jobs and the sectors in which employment is factor in the attraction of overseas and indigen- growing and declining. The services sector is an ous investment to the town. The Government’s obvious one in which there has been continued investment strategy includes the capital projects growth in employment. While there have been of various Departments on roads, schools and job losses in certain traditional areas, there have industrial parks. My Department works through been job increases across the board in other sec- development agencies such as IDA Ireland, tors. Many additional jobs have been created Enterprise Ireland, county enterprise boards, of which do not warrant a major announcement which Clare has a very fine one, and, in the mid- 1583 Priority 20 April 2005. Questions 1584

[Mr. Martin.] by employers or at least has that effect? Does the west, Shannon Development. They are the Minister also agree that a migrant worker, a per- vehicles through which we endeavour to attract son in a foreign land who probably has some lan- and facilitate investment in Ennis and similar guage difficulties and whose ability to remain locations. here is dependent on the employer who holds his Ireland’s employment statistics are the best in or her work permit, is much more likely to toler- Europe. Our unemployment rates are the lowest ate exploitation or abuse than would an indigen- at 4%. There is an incompatibility between the ous worker? Does the Minister accept that this is statistical reality of employment and some of the part of the problem and that resolving the issue of commentary I hear from various locations across who holds the work permit is part of the solution? the country. Does he further accept that if the employee were to hold the permit, it would reduce the almost Mr. Howlin: There is no regional balance. total dependence on the employer in the first place? Recent revelations that have emerged Work Permits. about Gama Construction, Irish Ferries and a whole host of other employers demonstrate the 67. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for level of difficulty that exists in this area, and how Enterprise, Trade and Employment if, in view of workers are being exploited. the litany of revelations of exploitation of migrant workers which have come to public attention in Mr. Martin: The Deputy is making reasonable recent weeks, legislation will be brought forward points. The key issue in the legislation that is now to reform the work permits system in order that pending is how we accommodate the Deputy’s a work permit may be held by the employee concerns in terms of enhancing the empowerment rather than the employer. [12173/05] of the employee in the relationship between Mr. Martin: Most of our labour force require- employer and employee in the context of a work ments can be met from within the European permit. Traceability is an important factor in economic area, which comprises the 25 member terms of the protection of an employee. This is states, Iceland, Norway, Liechtenstein and Switz- something we will probably discuss in the context erland. A work permit is granted to an employer of the Bill. If an employee holds the work permit, in respect of a specified employee and job vac- the element of traceability becomes more difficult ancy where the employer can demonstrate that a and one may not become aware of a range of vacancy cannot be filled from within the EEA. abuses that could be carried out in respect of cer- Apart from the renewal of existing permits, which tain employees. constitute the bulk of applications, new permits I accept the point that we must enhance and are confined to highly skilled and highly paid empower the employee to a much greater extent. positions. Current policy is informed by the We are examining the modality for doing that in imperative to address identified labour and skills the context of the application for work permits. needs in the economy. To best achieve these In the proposed legislation it is my intention to ends, work permits are applied and paid for by, give much greater freedom of mobility to and granted to, an employer, which ensures employees to go to other employments and to greater traceability, more effective enforcement make much greater statutory provision of infor- of employees’ rights and enhanced administrative mation in terms of entitlements, salaries and so efficiency. Persons employed in Ireland under the on. work permit scheme in recent years have been readily facilitated in changing jobs. In such cir- Mr. Morgan: One of the reasons I have raised cumstances a new work permit is issued to the this issue on several occasions is to try to have it person’s new employer. This allows an employee included in the provisions of the new Bill. Does to move to a new employer where there are the Minister accept that if it is not dealt with com- genuine reasons an employee wishes to leave his prehensively within the Bill, the legislation will or her existing employment. be considerably weakened? I look forward with A new employment permits Bill, which is at the interest to the publication of the Bill and wish it final stages of preparation, will include provision speedy progress. In light of the reticence on the for additional protections for migrant workers. It inclusion of a measure to the effect that the is intended that employers will be employee would hold the work permit, has the 3 o’clock prohibited from deducting from the Minister or the Department been lobbied by remuneration of migrant workers employers’ organisations to try to omit this from any costs associated with their recruitment and the Bill? In terms of the exploitation that exists the retention by employers of personal docu- in this area, we know of a Filipino woman who ments belonging to migrant workers. The issue was employed by Irish Ferries for \1 a day. Will of to whom the permit will be granted will be such employers be prosecuted for transgressing addressed in the Bill. on this issue?

Mr. Morgan: Does the Minister agree that the Mr. Martin: I look forward to the Deputy’s current system is designed to disempower input to the debate when the legislation comes migrant workers and facilitate their exploitation before the House. I ask him to keep an open 1585 Other 20 April 2005. Questions 1586 mind and take on board all the issues that will be consequential increase in the demand for labour. raised. I want to achieve the right solution for Where suitable workers were not available in employees. I have not been lobbied by any Ireland or the wider European Economic Area, employer or employment body on this aspect of which consists of the EU, Norway, Iceland, the Bill but submissions may have been received Liechtenstein and for this purpose Switzerland, in the two years since the Bill was originally the shortage was catered for through the work conceived. permit system. In a gesture of solidarity with the ten new EU Mr. Howlin: I am afraid it has been at least member states, the Government decided to allow two years. free movement to nationals of these countries from the accession date on 1 May 2004. It was Mr. Martin: Two other items of legislation, the also decided that future economic migration from Employment Equality Act and the Employment outside the European Economic Area would be Permits Act, which was passed last year, confined to more highly skilled and highly paid affected it. personnel. In 2004, 34,000 work permits were issued, of which more than 10,000 related to new Mr. Howlin: The employment permits Bill has applications. In addition, in excess of 50,000 been in preparation for years. nationals of the ten new member states entered the State from May to December 2004. Mr. Martin: I assure the Deputy that its publi- I am aware of the projections by the Central cation is imminent. We are examining the issue Statistics Office to which the Deputy refers. raised by Deputy Morgan. The key issue is the These projections are based on certain economic protection of the employee so that whatever growth assumptions. Taking account of the pro- system is introduced, we can pursue cases where jected future pattern of labour migration, includ- workers’ rights have been abused. ing returning Irish emigrants, I am satisfied that Ireland’s labour needs will be met in the years Mr. Morgan: Can the Minister not do that at ahead. To this end the new employment permits present? Bill being finalised will contain provisions which Mr. Martin: We can and we are. will enable me to respond quickly and flexibly to skills shortages as they arise. Mr. Morgan: Is that the case? Mr. Howlin: Will the Minister address the Mr. Martin: The labour inspectorate is pursu- question? He stated he is aware of the CSO ing a variety of breaches of the labour laws, some report. The question I asked is if he accepts the of which are high profile cases. The fact that the projection that this economy will need 50,000 employer holds the permit has enabled the immigrants a year over the next 12 years if econ- inspectorate to go quickly to the source of the omic growth is to be maintained at a 3% to 5% problem. We do not wish to lose that capacity. range. Does the Minister also accept that there is a An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: That concludes need for joined-up Government? His Depart- Priority Questions. We now take ordinary ques- ment is often working at variance with the tions. I remind the House that supplementary Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform questions and answers are subject to a maximum in these matters. For example, a case I am dealing of one minute. with today indicates that people who have long- established roots in this country who apply for Other Questions. naturalisation must wait for two years or more for their case to be heard. Does the Minister accept ———— that the changing face of employment and social structure in Ireland requires joined-up Govern- Labour Force Survey. ment in a way that does not currently pertain? Will he as Minister ensure that there is a cross- 68. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for departmental focus on this issue so that there is Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he accepts an orderly transition to a changing demographic the finding in the Central Statistics Office’s popu- and ethnic mix in Ireland and that the needs of lation and labour force projections which sug- the economy are met in a structured, rational and gested that Ireland will need 50,000 immigrants a acceptable way? year over the next 12 years to meet labour force needs; if he accepts this projection; the way in Mr. Martin: I accept the CSO projections but which he intends to respond to the projection; all such projections come with the qualification and if he will make a statement on the matter. that they are based on a range of assumptions. [12095/05] Given the assumptions made, especially those Mr. Martin: Economic migration policy in concerning economic growth and demographic Ireland is predicated on economic needs and factors, we are working on the basis that the fig- addresses identified labour and skills shortages. ures given are those that will be required on an As the economy grew in recent years, there was a annual basis. The numbers that have entered the 1587 Other 20 April 2005. Questions 1588

[Mr. Martin.] global economic trends and the different sectors country from the new accession states is about requiring skills at various times. In terms of asy- 60,000. I will try to get hard data on that. The lum seeking, Deputy McDowell has a clear total up to the end of December 2004 was 50,000. framework in place. I accept the Deputy’s point on joined-up Government. The Minister for Justice, Equality Mr. Howlin: The current policy is a problem and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, and I have for a quarter of our businesses. agreed a joint process whereby we will initially create a virtual one stop shop for people that will Mr. Martin: I am talking about the Govern- embrace the entire immigration service, visas, ment’s position and perspective. work permits and so on. We are now engaged in a joint programme to achieve that. My Department Mr. Howlin: I am saying that. obviously has responsibility for economic migration policy and the new legislation on work Mr. Martin: We have had significant successes permits will reflect that. I also retain authority on both fronts. In terms of the integration issue, over the issuing of work permits. Ultimately we I accept this has to be a cross-Government want to reach a stage where people apply to the approach. Again, there is evidence that one office, in essence, and everything else will fol- employers in various sectors and under the aegis low from that. Historically, both Departments of different Departments have engaged in much will have come to this point from different per- proactive activity on the issue of integration, mul- spectives. My Department is anxious to facilitate ticultural diversity etc., to try to provide a range economic development and growth to ensure of supports for people who come from other there are no labour shortages within the econ- countries. We can do more and I have had pre- omy. The Department of Justice, Equality and liminary discussions with the unions on how we Law Reform has a whole range of other objec- may facilitate in particular the absorption and tives and protections to consider in terms of the integration of workers from other EU countries, wider State that it must statutorily deal with. The and indeed from outside the EU, who may have bottom line is that we are very anxious and the significant language difficulties, for example. By Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, virtue of having significant language difficulties, Deputy McDowell, has recently issued proposals they have problems in accessing information, as regards the one-stop-shop approach. He has which can be to their benefit, in terms of protect- also recently issued a thoughtful publication on ing their rights and so forth. I am broadly supportive of the points the Deputy has made. I immigration services and policy generally. “Yes” would argue that we have rational policies in is the answer to both questions. place in respect of the key issue of economic migration and asylum seeking. Mr. Howlin: I thank the Minister for his reply because it is important. Will he accept that there Mr. Eamon Ryan: Will the Minister agree that are basically three pillars to the issue? One is a in the interests of joined-up thinking, it would be rational policy of migration to meet the economic good to know not just the numbers of migrant needs of the country and to allow people who workers coming in but also to have some indica- want to increase their economic well-being to tion where they are working? The national spatial come here. The second is a rational policy to deal strategy is now being treated more or less as a with asylum seekers, which is quite separate and joke by reasonable commentators. From what the often confused with the first pillar. The third is a Minister says, we are possibly looking at 60,000 rational and structured policy of integration to to 100,000. If a significant percentage of this avoid strains and stresses on ethnic change in number is working in the Dublin area, for society. Will the Minister accept that this requires example, this has massive implications for infras- a joint effort from Government rather than it tructural investment and national planning. Does being the sole responsibility of an individual he or his Department have any information about Minister? I deduce from his original answer that where those workers are employed? It would also this type of thinking is now underway in his be useful to know what they work at. Department and within Government. When will the joined-up process manifest in structures that Mr. Martin: Because we took away the work meet the needs of a changing Ireland? permit requirement for citizens of the European Union and particularly those from the new Mr. Martin: It has already commenced. On the accession states, there is not a ready-made data- Deputy’s first two points about the economic base with information on the people coming in. migration policy and asylum seeking, rational It means one has to go through CSO statistics or policies are in place as regards both of them. A locally based assessments of what is happening in sophisticated skilled forecasting mechanism has terms of where people are living and so on. The been in place since 1998. It is the future skills Deputy is correct. The economic growth rates we needs group established jointly by the Tańaiste are likely to experience to the end of the decade and myself. If we have learned anything from mean growth in the economy of around 5.5% on that, it is the necessity for flexibility and adapta- average as well as growth in the labour force. The bility in terms of projecting what will happen in CSO is saying that the labour force will continue 1589 Other 20 April 2005. Questions 1590 to grow from 1.9 million, for example, at 2004 lev- mix of flexible working associated with this. They els, to about 2.4 million in 2016. That is a very cannot manage with what the PDs and Fianna significant increase, which basically impacts on Faíl are forcing them to do, either to get back infrastructure, housing, utilities and a range of into the workplace full-time or exit totally. What issues, including education, health etc. is the Minister of State doing, by saying he will not allow that? Flexible Work Practices. Mr. Killeen: One of the great advantages of the 69. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for current system is that the voluntary approach has Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he plans to been very successful. As the Deputy is no doubt make flexible working hours a statutory right for aware, considerable numbers of workers are all workers; and if he will make a statement on employed part-time, and very successfully. If at the matter. [12191/05] this stage we were to introduce a statutory right Mr. Killeen: The question of the introduction for all workers—— of flexible working hours is a matter for negotiation between employees, or a trade union act- Mr. Hogan: In rural areas the funding is being ing on their behalf, and employers. I have no cut. plans to introduce flexible working hours on a statutory basis for all employees. Current legis- Mr. Killeen: ——along the lines outlined by the lation provides for statutory entitlement to Deputy, many more problems would be created, maternity leave, adoptive leave, carers’ leave and instead of being sorted out. This is a matter which parental leave. Further legislation is currently may be adequately addressed within the partner- being progressed in the Houses of the Oireachtas ship approach and most successfully at the level by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law of the individual enterprise where there is a will- Reform to enhance certain provisions of existing ingness for this. legislation as regards parental and adoptive leave. It is intended that these amendments to parental Mr. Hogan: The Minister of State should give and adoptive leave legislation will be finalised by an example. summer 2005. Mr. Killeen: In the instances which the Deputy Mr. Eamon Ryan: The Minister of State’s mentions where there is demand for such flexi- response to this question makes an utter mockery bility I have no doubt that it will be provided. of his reply to my priority question earlier. This is so if we are to take a leading role, as described Mr. Eamon Ryan: Leave it to the market. That is the Fianna Faíl approach. in the work place strategy paper already referred to, in providing the flexible working environment Mr. M. Ahern: This has been successful, has that will aid competitiveness and help keep it not? people in the economy who otherwise might leave. Is the Minister of State aware that there Work Permits. is an increasing incidence of people with young children, for example, who are exiting the work- 70. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister place because they face the impossible choice for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the between very expensive child care and the lack of number of work permits issued to date under the flexible working conditions? It is very difficult for new arrangements to give access to employment them to get back in. Will he agree that the pro- to the spouses of non-EEA nationals working in vision of flexible working conditions in that this country; and if he will make a statement on regard would allow a much better quality of life the matter. [12094/05] to be provided for people rearing children and Mr. Martin: Under the arrangement to facili- also keep them at work or allow them greater tate certain spouses, 1,019 work permits in access to return? How can he say, on the one respect of the spouses of non-EEA nationals hand, that we are moving in this direction in working here were issued up to 15 April 2005. terms of work-life balance, and then say he will not provide for guaranteed flexible working Mr. Howlin: Will the Minister take the oppor- arrangements, contrary to what is best practice tunity to give an exposition of Government policy in many other European countries? It makes a as regards the allowing of spouses of all work per- mockery of all the Minister of State’s good inten- mit holders to come and reside in the country? tions and earlier assurances. He is ruling out the first major plank in such a strategy. It was very Mr. Martin: Will the Deputy clarify the last interesting to hear the direct evidence from child part of the question, about all permit holders? care providers and officials in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform at this morn- Mr. Howlin: I am asking what Government ing’s hearing of the Joint Committee on Justice, policy is as regards allowing spouses into this Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights. The evi- country. If tens of thousands of work permits are dence clearly was that the demand is for flexible being issued on average, the current ballpark fig- child care arrangements because people want the ure is between 40,000 and 50,000 annually. The 1591 Other 20 April 2005. Questions 1592

[Mr. Howlin.] Mr. Howlin: We are for some skills. number of work permits issued, more than 1,000 according to the Minister, is a tiny fraction of that Mr. Martin: I am unclear if the Deputy is refer- figure. What is the Government’s policy? What ring to all workers. criteria is used to allow spouses to come to Ireland? Is it the case that where spouses are Mr. Howlin: I did not say that. allowed to enter the State, they too are given work permits? Mr. Martin: That is more in convergence with the Government’s policy. Mr. Martin: The Ta´naiste, when Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, introduced Mr. Howlin: Will the Minister define the skills? an initiative in February 2004 to facilitate easier access to the labour market by spouses of certain Mr. Martin: The work visa authorisation skilled non-EEA nationals working in the State. scheme was brought in for health care workers, Concerns had been raised about Ireland’s con- construction professionals and IT workers. tinued capacity to attract high-skilled personnel, particularly in cases where spouses did not have Mr. Howlin: Has this been reviewed yet? an automatic right to work in the State. I recall when holding the health portfolio, this problem Mr. Martin: It has not been reviewed since its was most evident in the health services for the introduction. The legislation allows us to either approximately 4,500 high-skilled nurses from out- give a statutory underpinning to the scheme or side the European Economic Area. They indi- review the policy. As these were areas of acute cated their willingness to stay in the health sector staff shortages in the economy, the Government depended on their spouses being allowed to join changed the arrangements for those workers. them and permitted to work. The arrangements Economic migration policy is adaptable and flex- made were confined to spouses working in the ible to the given needs of a given time. It is not State on working visas or work authorisations, to asylum policy that creates an open door, merging spouses of certain intra-company transferees and spouses of certain academics and researchers. the asylum issue with economic migration. These Medical professionals on work permits were dealt are issues that need to be addressed collectively. with on a case-by-case basis. Most spouses travelling to Ireland, arrive on a Mr. Howlin: The Government has not facili- spouse’s visa which does not allow them to work tated such a debate. in the State. However, when they find a job they can obtain a work permit. The new rules are Mr. Martin: A point was raised earlier that if aimed at giving greater ease of access to employ- so many workers are coming in, what will be the ment for those spouses for the estimated 10,000 impact on education and health services and skilled non-EEA nationals working in the labour other structures? There needs to be limits, market. By 15 April 2005, up to 1,041 work per- balances and some degree of caution in thinking mit applications were received in respect of the this through to five year’s time. Originally, work spouses of non-EEA nationals. Of those, 1,019 permits were not intended for the long haul but were granted. It is a fairly high response rate. for the duration of only one to two years.

Mr. Howlin: I am trying to elucidate what Mr. Howlin: Will the Minister engage with the exactly is the Government’s policy. It seems to be Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Busi- a very limited area, where the spouses of workers ness on this issue? He has made valid points that who are attracted to this economy and given work have not been debated properly with cross-party permits and are allowed to join them and work in consensus. I am specifically referring to individ- this economy. I have dealt with several cases of uals whose spouses are in Ireland and who have where family members of doctors from abroad skills that could add to the economy but are had difficulties in getting visitors’ visas to enter debarred from it. They feel excluded although the State. It links into the family friendly work- they are resident in Ireland. Will a case-by-case place issue. Will the Minister consider extending based facility be put in place for those affected the supports for families to include the families spouses to have their cases heard? of workers attracted to and required for our economy so that we do not have forced separation? Mr. Martin: In the cases of spouses of skilled Will the Minister agree that 1,000 work permits, non-EEA workers, 1,041 applied for permits of against the backdrop of the number of migrant which 1,019 were granted. workers entering the State, is a tiny proportion? It will have the effect of making this economy Mr. Howlin: There is no basis for them to apply unattractive for skilled workers when a more pro- because there is no scheme. gressive policy is available in other developed European and north American countries. Mr. Martin: I examined the cases of medical professionals on the old work permit scheme on Mr. Martin: Ireland is an attractive location. an individual basis. 1593 Other 20 April 2005. Questions 1594

Mr. Morgan: These numbers are modest. Will the council also publishes its competitiveness the Minister accept that if a much-needed worker challenge report, which offers a list of policy is granted a permit, it is then reasonable that he recommendations aimed at enhancing Ireland’s or she should not be separated from his or her competitive position. These recommendations, partner? In most Irish families, both parents work presented to both the Taoiseach and the Minister to maintain the household. These permit workers for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, make a are no different. Is it not fair that they should be significant contribution to policy development in offered the opportunity for their spouses to all areas affecting competitiveness. work? The most recent reports by the National Com- petitiveness Council were published in October Mr. Martin: Not everyone comes to work in 2004. Both reports found the economic envir- Ireland with a view to bringing the entire family. onment for 2004 encouraging. The economy experienced significant improvements in the Mr. Morgan: I accept this. growth of GNP, employment and a reduction in the unemployment rate. According to ESRI’s Mr. Martin: Many skilled workers see it as a spring 2005 quarterly economic commentary, the phase where they come to Ireland to earn higher economy will continue its robust performance wages and remunerate their families at home to with rates of 5.7% in real GDP and 5.0% for real increase their living standards. This is an under- GNP forecast for 2005, followed by rates of 5.5% standable desire, as the Irish did it for many gen- and 5.8%, respectively, in 2006. Following an erations. There must be some balance in how we exceptional strong employment growth of 3% last address this issue. Ireland has been more gen- year labour market conditions are expected to erous than most by having an open policy to remain strong in both 2005 and 2006. It is forecast inward worker migration. This was evidenced in that the unemployment rate will stabilise to aver- our response in advance of the ten accession age 4.3% in both 2005 and 2006. states joining the EU. However, the council’s analysis discovered several constraints and threats to future competi- Mr. Morgan: The numbers are very small. tiveness. Chief among these was the increasing cost base relative to our trading partners. The Mr. Martin: The numbers are substantial. 2004 competitiveness challenge report stated Approximately 50,000 workers entered from the there is a need to make wage setting, govern- ten new EU member states in six months because mental spending and taxation more responsive to Ireland had no barriers and those workers did not changing competitiveness developments. We require work permits. There is complete mobility must address our increasing cost base to protect for all citizens of EU member states to work in our competitiveness. This continues to be a high Ireland. priority for the Government. The Government has taken several steps to Mr. Morgan: The point is that the numbers of address the issue of prices and costs in Ireland. In workers from outside the EU are small. budget 2005, by not increasing indirect taxes, the Government demonstrated its commitment to Economic Competitiveness. ensuring that the progress made on reducing con- 71. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for sumer price inflation last year continues this year. Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has The most recent consumer price index figures identified procedures or issues which tend to from the CSO show that inflation fell to 2.1% in make the Irish economy less competitive; if he March. That was the fourth consecutive month proposes to take remedial action in this regard; that Ireland’s rate of inflation decreased. and if he will make a statement on the matter. If we wish to improve our competitiveness, [12169/05] Ireland cannot afford to have sheltered sectors of the economy immune from competition. The key 239. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for to reducing prices and maintaining them at opti- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the extent to mal levels in the long term is to ensure that which he has identified the main factors leading vibrant competition is present in all sectors of the to a lack of competitiveness in the context of the Irish economy. That is why the Government has economy vis-a`-vis the Euro-zone countries; and if strengthened the powers and resources of the he will make a statement on the matter. Competition Authority, which is charged with [12495/05] combating anti-competitive practice in the Mr. Martin: I propose to take Questions Nos. economy. 71 and 239 together. Each year the National Competitiveness Additional information not given on the floor of Council undertakes a comprehensive analysis of the House. Ireland’s competitiveness performance and pub- The NCC also found that there remains an lishes its results in its annual competitiveness inconsistency between our image as a high tech- report. The council benchmarks Ireland’s per- nology economy and our underlying knowledge formance relative to competitor countries, includ- base. The Government recognises that the ing Euro-zone countries. Based on this analysis research agenda is one of the most important 1595 Other 20 April 2005. Questions 1596

[Mr. Martin.] tors who have concerns about over-regulation elements in terms of our drive to increase both and some elements of the Act being too exacting. competitiveness and quality employment now and in the future. A group involving representa- Mr. Hogan: I said that in my contribution to tives from industry, venture capitalists, the uni- the debate on the Bill. versities and institutes of technology, Depart- ments and agencies has developed Ireland’s Mr. M. Ahern: The Deputy did not. research and development action plan under the aegis of my Department. The plan was published Mr. Hogan: Read my speech. in August 2004. It sets a target of spend on research and development of 2.5% of GNP by Mr. Martin: We listened to those views and 2010 and makes a range of high level recommend- have responded to them. However, the experi- ations in pursuit of this. These recommendations ence of many major companies that locate in are ambitious but represent the type of actions Ireland — I have met many of them through IDA Ireland needs to take if it is to continue to be Ireland — is that Ireland is probably the best competitive in a fast changing globalised place to locate and do business in Europe. The structures of governance in Ireland are more economy. responsive and agile in meeting the needs of The NCC also made a number of other recom- enterprise and in removing barriers or obstacles mendations in the areas of entrepreneurship, that could inhibit the growth or establishment of enterprise development, innovation and creativ- a business. ity. These and other recommendations are being With regard to the competitiveness report, an considered by an interdepartmental group of early decision taken by the Government was on senior officials, which is chaired by my Depart- the planning guidelines. It is interesting that on ment. The interdepartmental group is currently the one hand the Government is attacked for not preparing a report on the NCC’s recommend- responding to recommendations from bodies such ations, which will be submitted to Government as the competitiveness council but when it does before the summer. respond, it is immediately attacked on all sides.

Mr. Hogan: We should breathe a collective sigh Mr. Hogan: By whom? of relief that the Government did not increase indirect taxes in the last budget, given that it has Mr. Martin: The Oireachtas committee. imposed 27 stealth taxes since the last general election. We should be pleased. Will the Minister Mr. Hogan: It did not make a recommendation accept that important recommendations have about the planning regulations. been highlighted to him and to the Department of the Taoiseach over a long period of time but Mr. Martin: No, it opposed the Minister’s no action has been taken on them? This is partic- decision. ularly true with regard to the regulatory burden faced by businesses. Mr. Hogan: I asked about the recommend- Does the Minister intend to make changes to ations of the NCC. the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Act, which was enacted some time ago, particularly Mr. Martin: Yes, but the parliamentary ques- with regard to the compliance statement? Does tion is about the competitiveness council’s report. the Minister accept that the regulatory burden imposes considerable additional costs on busi- Mr. Hogan: I did not ask about any report, I nesses and consumers? The Taoiseach’s publi- asked for the Minister’s view. cation, Better Regulation, highlighted this in Mr. Martin: That is the major vehicle for deal- January 2004 but, regrettably, no action was ing with the competitiveness issue. We get an taken. Will the Minister make an attempt to independent body, the competitiveness council, implement the recommendations in that docu- to assess the competitive challenges and to make ment? It recommended that any legislation intro- recommendations to Government. When that duced which affected business or consumers happens, however, the Government is damned should be necessary, sustainable, accountable and regardless of whether it implements the recom- transparent, without imposing an additional cost mendations. burden on business. Research and development is a key competitiveness issue. We have invested significantly in Mr. Martin: With regard to the Bill mentioned this over recent years and we have work on hand by the Deputy, my colleague, the Minister of to increase both the level and quality of invest- State, Deputy Michael Ahern, commented in the ment in future. Seanad last week that certain aspects of the legislation would be reviewed and that the CLRG Mr. Hogan: What is the Minister’s opinion of group would examine it. The Minister of State the cost of waste management and disposal and and I have heard a range of submissions and pres- the contribution it makes to additional costs for entations from interested parties in various sec- business and consumers? What does he believe 1597 Other 20 April 2005. Questions 1598 should be done about the waste management week while 94 jobs will be lost at Veha in Wick- issue to ensure lower costs for disposal of waste low town at the end of the month. Will the Mini- so it will not be a huge burden on business and ster use his Department’s agencies to involve the consumers in the future and to maintain our com- workers concerned in a reskilling or retraining petitiveness? programme?

Mr. Martin: Waste disposal and energy costs Mr. Martin: I have great sympathy for the are two significant areas of concern for industry workers concerned. In such circumstances we ask and competitiveness. I support the broad strategic the State agencies to get involved quickly. FA´ S approach being pursued by my colleague, the offers services such as alternative job oppor- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and tunities and training programmes which workers Local Government, which involves—— can undertake to enhance their skills and secure alternative employment. Enterprise Ireland Mr. Hogan: Ringaskiddy. works in an area which has suffered job losses through adding jobs in indigenous enterprises or Mr. Martin: ——prevention, waste reduction through creating new indigenous start-up and elimination, recycling and so forth. enterprises with the help of the county enterprise board. IDA Ireland seeks to attract investment Mr. Howlin: What about the narrow approach? into the region. Mr. Martin: Historically, this country did not One must consider this in the context of the deal well with the waste issue. region. If one looks at single towns in isolation, one will encounter similar stories. However, there Mr. Hogan: No, we were forced to do it by have been substantial increases in investment and Europe. jobs in Wicklow and south Dublin in recent years.

Mr. Martin: The catch up phase of the past Mr. Eamon Ryan: A total of 87% of our energy seven or eight years has, by definition, resulted in needs are met by importing fossil fuels. Since the far greater costs for local authorities in providing, National Competitiveness Council’s report was for example, better landfills than were provided published last October there has been another in the 1970s and 1980s. We did not deal well with spike in oil prices. The price is $55 per barrel waste over many decades. The availability of today. Does the Minister agree that this is a major resources was a key issue. There was also a lack threat to our competitiveness? We are uniquely of knowledge and so forth. exposed. What analysis has the Minister carried out in that regard and what remedial action can Mr. Hogan: The Government has been in office the Department take to tackle what I believe will for eight years and has had plenty of money. be the biggest crisis for our economy and society in the next ten years? Mr. Martin: We have dealt with it in the past seven or eight years. There has been a substantial Mr. Martin: I will not suggest I can solve global change in the last decade. energy issues.

Mr. Howlin: The Waste Management Act was Mr. Howlin: The local ones will do. introduced by the rainbow Government. Mr. Martin: My reach does not extend that far. Mr. Martin: I referred to the last decade. I accept the strategic points raised by the Deputy. We can support alternative energy sources by the Mr. Howlin: That was the last important legis- provision of investment across Departments. lation on this issue. Other Departments have greater responsibility on this issue. Mr. Timmins: The Government will not I am interested in supporting research into implement it. energy conservation and the development of products and services, in the workplace and else- Mr. Martin: In the last decade there was a where, that would reduce dependency on fossil transformation in the way we dealt with waste fuels. I do not have a great depth of knowledge compared to decades prior to that. about Japan but it appears to be forging ahead in terms of technology and is investing in products Mr. Timmins: The lack of competitiveness and services that focus on energy conservation mentioned by my colleague, in addition to the and reducing its dependency on certain types of failure of a product to evolve, has had a devastat- energy. That should happen here. ing effect on Wicklow in the past couple of weeks. The Minister says we are in top place in Europe Labour Inspectorate. but that is little consolation when jobs can be moved to other countries. A total of 140 jobs at 72. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for AO Smith Corporation in Bray were lost last Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number 1599 Other 20 April 2005. Questions 1600

[Mr. P. Breen.] Department about these matters. Why is it that of persons employed by the labour inspectorate resources can be plucked out of the air when a based in his Department; the number of compan- controversy arises in this House? Following the ies under investigation; the nature of those inves- revelations by Deputy Joe Higgins, 11 additional tigations; and if he will make a statement on the inspectors were approved at the drop of a hat. It matter. [12056/05] must have been a low priority in the Department in 2004 when the Minister could not deliver a Mr. Killeen: Following my recent announce- speedy implementation of these essential labour ment on 12 April, there are now 31 labour inspec- inspectors. A great number of inspectors have tor posts. Immediate steps have been taken to now been appointed in one fell swoop. There source the new inspectors initially from within the must have been a large deficiency in the Depart- existing staff complement of the Department of ment, as well as many complaints, which led him Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Accordingly, to do this. I expect early appointments. There are currently 17.5 labour inspectors, whole-time equivalents, in Mr. P. McGrath: The Minister should be care- the inspectorate. One inspector is currently on ful, or she might hit back. Mr. Kelly is doing his long-term sick leave and one job-sharing inspec- job over there now and he is very effective. tor is on extended unpaid leave. A further two inspectors are currently engaged in assisting the Mr. Killeen: This issue was raised by the unions Employment Appeals Tribunal. in the mid-term review. A recommendation was A number of other officials, at team leader and made at that stage. Ultimately, the recommended management grades within the employment number of inspectors was 21. Clearly, the unions rights compliance section, are considered inspec- were extremely dissatisfied with that outcome. tors and perform such duties as required. The However, since Deputy Martin and I were inspectors are supported by six administrative appointed to the Department of Enterprise, staff and the inspectorate makes up but one part Trade and Employment, this matter has been of the employment rights compliance section. The raised frequently with us. It is fair to say that the other parts consist of the employment rights appointments represent a substantial increase in information unit and the employment rights pros- a very short timescale. ecution and enforcement section. There are approximately 600 cases currently under investi- Mr. Howlin: There is a degree of brass neck in gation by the labour inspectorate. The cases the response by the Minister of State. Parliamen- relate to various alleged breaches of employment tary questions have been tabled on this issue for rights legislation, including payment of wages, years. This issue was raised by myself, among holiday pay and overtime. others, in the debate on the health and safety Inspectors pursue allegations of worker mis- legislation. The response he and his predecessor treatment and when evidence of non-compliance presented was that there was adequate inspection with the relevant employment rights legislation is and no need for further inspectors. It is only the found, the inspectorate seeks redress for the indi- crisis of recent times that has changed the Mini- viduals concerned and, if appropriate, a pros- ster’s view. He can now find the resources, with- ecution is initiated. out it being signalled in the Estimates that were published, for a substantial increase from 17.5 Mr. Hogan: Much of this information was inspectors, not the 21 we were led to believe, to covered in earlier questions. When was this lack 28 or more. When did it really dawn on the Mini- of resources in the labour inspectorate brought to ster that this substantial requirement was the Minister’s attention? Did it require the needed? When will these inspectors be put in controversy surrounding Gama Construction to place? When they are put in place, will that be bring this matter to his attention and the flurry of adequate to police a workforce of 2 million? activity which led to his announcement on April 12? Mr. Killeen: I am not in the business of adjudi- cating on the strength of brass neck on this issue. Mr. Killeen: The issue was raised at the mid- A number of people have raised this need for an term review of Sustaining Progress and I was not increase in the number of inspectors, Deputy a Minister of State at that stage. At the first meet- Howlin among them. This issue was raised long ing I had with SIPTU, that was one of the issues before I was in the Department—— raised. We have been seeking resources to announce the additional inspector since then. The Mr. Howlin: The response was that they were announcement on 12 April addresses the immedi- not needed. ate concerns. Mr. Killeen: ——and I would not have been Mr. Hogan: It was brought to the attention of answering parliamentary questions at that stage. the Department 18 months ago that there was a In October or November 2004, I felt that major deficiency in the number of inspectors. additional inspectors were required. I discussed There was clearly a number of complaints to the the matter with the Minister, Deputy Martin, who 1601 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1602 was of the same view. The necessary financial In the last few days, a garda in the community, provision was not there for them. In view of those who has teenage children himself, raised a query circumstances, the additional appointments rep- with me to which he is unable to get a response. resented a very quick response. We are now approaching the period where debs balls are taking place around the country. School- Written answers follow Adjournment Debate. children attend these events and they are generally very successful. With the introduction of the Adjournment Debate Matters. Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, children under 18 are no longer allowed to be on a licensed prem- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I wish to advise ises after 9 p.m. What is the status of debs balls the House of the following matters in respect of that take place in licensed premises? The people which notice has been given under Standing attending these events can often be as young as Order 21 and the name of the Member in each 15 and only a small proportion of them are over case: (1) Deputy Durkan — the abandonment of 18. Yet in most cases, the bars are open. How the search for an anchor tenant at the Digital stands the legality of this issue? It is imperative Hub and its implications for the entire project; that the Minister clarifies the issue so well mean- (2) Deputy Kelleher — that the Minister ensure ing gardaı´, who want what is best for our com- the original commitment of the Dublin Airport munities, do not get caught off-side when Authority to fund the capital cost of the provision intervening. of the new terminal in Cork Airport; (3) Deputy Members will recall that deportation orders M. Moynihan — the issues surrounding Mallow were applied to mainly Nigerian citizens in this General Hospital including the provision of a CT country, many of whom had lived here for quite scanner and the appointment of a consultant; (4) some time. There were two ladies in my constitu- Deputy Lynch — to discuss the state of the Blood ency who lived in Athlone. They were deported Transfusion Service Board in the Munster area in even though their children had been in school in relation to the Blood Transfusion Service Board Athlone for quite some time. They had integrated nationally; (5) Deputy Flynn — that the Minister into the community and there was a great deal of immediately focus the attention of all the relevant local support for them to remain there. I empha- Government agencies on creating new jobs in sise that this does not concern the activities of the Castlebar and in County Mayo; (6) Deputy Healy local Garda force, but rather the gardaı´ from the — the need for the Minister and the Health Ser- national immigration bureau who swept into vice Executive to implement the High Court Athlone to do their job. I wish to quote from a agreement for the provision of general hospital letter from Mr. Noel Casey, the deputy principal services in south Tipperary; (7) Deputy Neville of Our Lady’s Bower secondary school in — school transport for the secondary school Sale- Athlone. I know Mr. Casey who is an extremely sian College Pallaskenry; (8) Deputy Moynihan- dedicated teacher and does his job in an exemp- Cronin — the shortfall in funding preventing the lary fashion. His letter outlines the events that opening of a day ward and the 24 hour opening occurred recently in that girls’ school. It states: of the medical assessment unit in the accident and emergency department of Kerry General At approximately 4 p.m. I was supervising Hospital, Tralee, County Kerry. evening study in the central area [of the The matters raised by Deputies Lynch, school]. I saw a lady stride purposefully into Durkan, Flynn and Kelleher have been selected the school followed by a uniformed female for discussion. Garda who had a very distressed Ms Odunsi [she was the lady who was to be deported], Ayo’s mother, by the arm [this was not a grip Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: Second Stage of support but of restraint, the Garda never let (Resumed). go of Ms Odunsi’s arm while they were in the school. I knew who these people were so I left Question again proposed: “That the Bill be the study area to talk to them. They had turned now read a Second Time.” into the school office and as I entered the area Mr. P. McGrath: Before the adjournment of I heard the plain clothes officer loudly look for this debate, I welcomed this Bill and compli- Ayo [who was one of the students]. I informed mented the gardaı´. I spoke about the success of this lady that I had sent Ayo home at 3.30 p.m. setting up the Garda Sıóchańa and the successful This lady then motioned me to one side and policing operations the body has carried out. I asked me where Ayo was, I told her again that now wish to mention some the difficulties the I had sent Ayo home. The officer seemed to Garda Sıóchańa experiences. There is often a lack become angry with this response and she of direction and management in how the gardaı´ demanded an explanation. I informed her that operate and how they acquire access to resources. school ends at 3.30 p.m. and that I had no direc- In Mullingar, the Garda was short a number of tion from anybody to do anything different. squad cars and some gardaı´ had to use their own The officer again demanded information on cars to do their jobs. This is a ridiculous way to Ayo’s whereabouts so I called to Mariann Ovi- do business. awe [another Nigerian] who was standing 1603 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1604

[Mr. P. McGrath.] dents’ associations comprising fair-minded people nearby to give whatever information she had with inside knowledge, could have a good input regarding Ayo. Mariann simply stated that Ayo into such committees. They should form part of had gone home. The officer aggressively the selection process for local policing commit- demanded Mariann’s name and seemed to tees. We should not confine the membership imply some sort of threat against her if she did entirely to local elected representatives, but not give any more information. Mariann should try to make the composition of the com- insisted that as far as she knew Ayo had gone mittees as broadly based as possible. home. She did not know where Ayo was. The We should also carefully examine the way in officer then turned on her heel and stormed out which such committees will carry out their work. of the school. The uniformed Garda took I have an open mind as to whether this work Ayo’s mother out to their car. should be done in public or private. If it takes In her time at the school the plain clothes place in public session there will not be the kind officer failed to show any ID, she never iden- of exchange of ideas, including frank discussions, tified herself, she never stated her business. She that might be necessary to make such bodies did behave in an aggressive and threatening work well. Perhaps there is a case to be made for manner. Ms Odunsi attempted to talk to me such bodies to meet in private but issue an agreed and this officer aggressively told her to be quiet concluding statement. and not to be foolish. I wanted to refer to other items but unfortu- This entire incident was witnessed by nately time has caught up with me. I thank you, approximately 100 students who were in the a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, for having allowed me study and the students who were waiting for to contribute to this debate. lifts and buses by the school door. A number of staff members were also present. Mr. Howlin: I am glad of the opportunity to That incident happened in a secondary school in speak on this important, albeit long awaited and County Westmeath. The Garda in question did delayed, Bill. A prominent member of the SDLP not identify herself, although I presume she was described the Good Friday Agreement as “Sun- a Garda, but would only say that she was going ningdale for slow learners”. Slowly, the Govern- about her duty, which was perhaps a difficult one. ment has accepted the requirement for reforms Surely, however, there are better ways and means mirrored in this legislation. The issue of policing of doing one’s work. Over the years the Garda is an extremely important one for any civilised Sıóchańa has built up a rapport with the public society. The police force is the bulwark for any whose trust and friendship they have earned. community in order to maintain an ordered Such activities as outlined the letter are not the society governed by the rule of law. We seek such way to assure local people that everybody will be a society where citizens can avail of rights while treated humanely. It is outrageous that this exercising their duties and responsibilities, where activity took place. The school in question has a disputes are arbitrated upon by the courts, and particularly good relationship with local gardaı´ where legislation is enforced by a focused police but the gardaı´ involved in this case had come force acting within the law. from out of town. Our history is a good one in terms of policing Turning to other provisions of the Bill, I wel- and we are fortunate to have a force such as the come the facility to establish local policing com- Garda Sıóchańa. Its members have steadfastly mittees in consultation and association with local defended the State against a variety of threats, authorities. Like many other Members of the including protracted armed criminal subversion. House, I welcome the establishment of such In all too many cases, including one of which I am bodies. Public representatives and others have a aware in my home town of Wexford, the ultimate big role to play in such committees because major sacrifice was required. Members of the Garda difficulties are emerging on housing estates. Even Sıóchańa have literally laid down their lives to in my own town of Mullingar, gardaı´ are reluctant protect this State, our Constitution and our laws. to enter some estates at night-time due to diffi- Therefore, in conducting a debate on the Garda culties they may encounter there. Late at night, Sıóchańa it is incumbent upon us — and I want the clientele of various nightclubs spill out on to to be open and honest in my analysis, in a warts- the streets at the same time. Thousands of young and-all manner — to place on the record of the people may congregate on the streets, which House a clear acknowledgment of the debt that makes for difficult policing. Community endeav- both the State and its people have to the Garda our is required to seek solutions to ease the situa- Sıóchańa. No less than any other institution of the tion and make life safer not just for the Garda State, the Garda Sıóchańa has been evolving and Sıóchańa but for the local communities. Estab- developing just as the State has been doing. Dur- lishment of local policing bodies will help to ing Question Time we discussed many of the achieve that. pressure points of changes in ethnicity, popu- I agree with other speakers who have said lation base and structure and disposition of popu- membership of such bodies should not be con- lation. All these matters impinge on the nature of fined to public representatives. For example, resi- policing, the training for it and the quality of the 1605 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1606 individuals we call to police us. They are diction. It contained very good models, ideas and important, and the structures put in place in the proposals which could be replicated in this juris- mid-1920s if unmodified, cannot be expected to diction. It is interesting that the response of the be appropriate for today. then Minister for Justice, the current Minister’s The Garda Sıóchańa needs to be reviewed in predecessor, was one of scorn and dismissal. That terms of its changing role, structure and an was the original reaction I got to the proposals I increasing demand across all sectors of public outlined. According to the then Minister, Deputy administration and public life for O’Donoghue, there was no need for any struc- 4 o’clock transparency and accountability. tural reform. There are Members of this House for I welcome this slow evolution, away from whom the mention of transparency and account- downright opposition to the acknowledgment for ability makes their hair stand on end because they the need for reform and the inclusion in the legis- are over-used and hackneyed words. However, all lation of many of the provisions I set out a few other elements of public administration, including years ago. It is a pity is has taken so long because politicians such as ourselves in this House, have the country and the Garda Sıóchańa would have had to face the need for reform. We have done been better served had the legislation been so in a variety of legislative measures we put in place to impact on our conduct, such as the elec- enacted when I proposed it. Once this Bill is toral Acts, beginning with the Electoral Act 1997, enacted, what will go on the Statute Book will not which I had the privilege of introducing in this be very dissimilar to the proposals I put forward. House. For the first time, this brought trans- I have noted the general importance of policing parency in donation statements, requirements for and the debt of gratitude we have as a State to declarations of Members of the House and it the competence, professionalism and skill of the capped election expenditure so there would at Garda Sıóchańa over the decades in the face of a least be a transparent mechanism for the conduct genuine threat to the survival of our consti- of political business. That was mirrored by the tutional democracy. I need to mention the down- Ethics in Public Offices Act and the Freedom of side because the context of all the proposals I put Information Act, both additional groundbreaking forward was the backdrop of the information I enactments which introduced changes for politi- received regarding the activities of certain gardaı´ cal activity. in Donegal. At the time, there was a blanket We have seen other legislation impacting on refusal by the then Minister to have an inquiry the business community as business scandals into those matters. Unfortunately, that refusal showed the need for change in banking. God lasted too long and it was quite some time before knows there have been enough banking scandals it was proven beyond doubt that an investigation to show that we needed to tighten our company was required, and the Morris tribunal was law and strengthen the entitlements of individuals established. who do business with banks. That has been I do not want to digress from the contents of achieved through the appointment of IFSRA and the Bill, but the Morris tribunal reveals an extra- other regulatory authorities. The public service ordinary set of circumstances whereby the princi- too has been transformed through the strategic pals at the heart of the investigation being carried management initiative and others enactments out by Mr. Justice Morris, the extended such as the Ethics in Public Offices Act which McBrearty family and associates, have not had impacted on senior public servants as well as on their legal fees guaranteed in advance, so that politicians. All of this characterised a wind of they are precluded from feeling that they can par- change blowing through public administration, ticipate fully in the inquiry. I hope the Minister and the Garda Sıóchańa is not immune from the for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will address necessity of addressing that climate of change. this extraordinary and unjust set of circumstances It was in that context that as justice spokesman and I understand he will meet the McBrearty several years ago I produced proposals for family this week. reforming legislation. I promulgated two separate We will have further debate on that matter in pieces of legislation at the time — the Garda due course and I will not dwell on it today. There Sıóchańa Authority Bill, which would have estab- are other matters, such as the Abbeylara incident, lished an independent, transparent and publicly which this House originally sought to investigate. accountable authority to run and set the oper- Unfortunately, because of legal decisions, that ation parameters for the Garda Sıóchańa, and the matter is the subject of a further tribunal. Other Garda Ombudsman Bill, which would have estab- disturbing cases include the investigation into the lished an independent monitoring system to pro- tragic Grangegorman murders in which two cess complaints about Garda activities. I said at women were stabbed to death in March 1997. A the time that I did not pluck the details of those suspect, Dean Lyons, was first questioned in July pieces of legislation from the sky. I relied heavily 1997, in a session which was electronically on the root and branch work done by the Patten recorded. The recording indicates a person who commission in Northern Ireland, one of the most was incoherent and lacked the ability to express exhaustive analyses of what would constitute himself properly. The man was clearly a heroin effective policing in a not entirely dissimilar juris- addict. Subsequently, however, he made a written 1607 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1608

[Mr. Howlin.] The Minister’s proposal with regard to an statement to gardaı´ in the Bridewell that was ombudsman proposes to establish an ombudsman lucid and clear and which contained key infor- commission rather than an individual ombuds- mation relating to the murders which could have man. I will not quibble with the Minister’s pro- been known only to the investigating gardaı´ and posal, but it is surprising that a manifestly effec- the murderer. Clearly, Dean Lyons could not tive proposal in place in Northern Ireland was not have committed the murders. That has now been replicated. I hope the Minister’s proposal for a acknowledged and an apology has issued, many commission is not different for the sake of being years after the event. I raised the issue at the different or not accepting a proposal put forward time. by the Labour Party some years ago. The yard- Other cases include that taken against Colm stick and test of it will be whether it is an effective Murphy with regard to the Omagh bombing of investigative mechanism that will allow thorough 1998. In that case, the court criticised two Garda and fair investigation and have separate preser- witnesses. The judge said the two named gardaı´ vation and control of evidence and freedom of had been involved in persistently lying under action. The proof of that will be apparent as the oath. The Paul Ward case is another, and there proposals come into effect. are more cases I will not list, but I note all these Another proposal in the Labour Party docu- as a backdrop for the requirement for reform. ment of the time was a proposal for a police liai- I said that I used as my template the Patten son committee modelled on the strategic policy proposals because they merited being taken committees — I had just left the then Department seriously and were a good template to replicate in of the Environment — to involve elements of the this jurisdiction. The methodology used by Patten community in discussing policing. Everybody was outlined by my colleague Deputy Costello in knows that policing is a community issue. I some detail. It was an exhaustive, consultative thought then and still believe the SPC model process that looked at effective policing in a juris- would be a good one. That proposal has evolved diction not 1,000 miles removed from ours and in the Minister’s proposals for joint policing com- which clearly had lessons to teach us. The prin- mittees. They are welcome and I hope they will be equally effective. ciple enunciated in the Patten Commission report was simple, but important: “Every member of the The challenges facing the Garda Sıóchańa force must remember that his duty is to protect occur at two levels. There is a national challenge of criminal gangs which were effectively dealt and help members of the public, no less than to with after a period with the establishment of the apprehend guilty persons.” It is important that Criminal Assets Bureau. Some of the gangs the duty is to protect and help the public and not operating were crushed, jailed or fled the juris- simply, although an important part of the job, to diction. Unfortunately, they have been replaced apprehend the guilty. by even more vicious thugs who, as we have seen I will mention some details of the Labour Party in recent times, clearly have no regard for life and proposals I had the privilege to produce some readily engage in violent murder. At local level, years ago. One proposal was the establishment of as the leader of the Labour Party has said repeat- a Garda authority. This remains a good proposal edly, the issue of anti-social behaviour is blighting because it gives a democratic, overarching owner- neighbourhoods throughout the country. While ship of policing, which is important in a democ- mainly in the larger urban centres, anti-social racy. It makes policing part of and accountable to behaviour occurs in every community. the community, not an extraneous force or part We have some legislation to deal with anti- of some authoritarian regime separate from the social behaviour. In our time in Government we community. A Garda authority is an extremely brought in the Housing (Miscellaneous good mechanism to give that clear manifestation. Provisions) Act to deal with anti-social behaviour A second proposal was the establishment, on in local authority housing. However, we need to the Northern Ireland model, of a Garda ombuds- go further as the real issue is not legislation. We man. During my discussions I met the Northern have the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act and Ireland Police Ombudsman, Nuala O’Loan, and the Intoxicating Liquor Act which have a number she came to Dublin and met other Members on of provisions yet to be introduced. It is the effec- the matter of fleshing out our proposals. She has tive use of those powers by people who are been a remarkable champion of justice and vindi- plugged into their communities that is at the core cator of good policing and has proven the robust- of effective community policing. If that does not ness of the Northern Ireland model. It surprises happen, if there are no gardaı´ who know the me that after such a clear manifestation that it is people and families in a neighbourhood and who the right model, we did not replicate it. The Mini- can listen, hear, act and be there, and unless we ster has determined otherwise and I will deal with reconnect with communities, policing will not be his proposals shortly. I also met the chairperson as effective as it could be. This is key for the new and the deputy chairperson of the Northern regimes. Will they reconnect with communities? Ireland policing board to get the flavour of how Will we have designated gardaı´ to link with and they saw policing evolving. stay in communities in the long term and physi- 1609 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1610 cally to control the communities and be com- cedure is being introduced but unless the section munity gardaı´ who are a friend of their communi- is deleted, there will be no change. ties, know them and act accordingly? The legislation also addresses the admin- The issue of the Judiciary is important if we are istration and management of the Garda, which is to have effective policing. We need to revisit the welcome, because many issues need to be dealt issue of judicial conduct and training etc. This was with such as the notion of returning to the old dealt with by the previous Minister but he aban- method of community policing. A number of doned his proposal. We need to come back to it intellectuals who know everything about every- so that we can have judges who know the needs thing and who have the remedies for all our ills of communities and who will act appropriately may smirk at this notion but they do not know and consistently. what they are talking about. The solution to prob- We need proper recruitment to the Garda. I lems such as anti-social behaviour, petty crime know an Irishman who was a commander in a and intimidation of old and young citizens is to police force elsewhere. He could not come back ensure more gardaı´ reside and are on the beat in to Ireland unless he went to Templemore and local communities. They will have a relationship started again. We need cross-fertilisation with with locals to whom they can speak to obtain valuable information which can be acted on, good police from abroad who want to come and resulting in much of the intimidation, petty crime work in Ireland. The Minister should be open to and anti-social behaviour being stamped out and that. We have a world class facility in Temple- leading to a semblance of normality being more, but not everybody needs to start at garda returned to citizens who live in fear of young level. We must be open to some cross-fertilisation thugs. Community policing based on the old from good effective forces elsewhere. methods of policing is the solution. Section 14 proposes volunteer gardaı´. I would A Garda Commissioner, Minister for Justice, like to see this proposal fleshed out. I have no Equality and Law Reform or a Government who intrinsic opposition to it, but we need to see the ignores the benefits of community policing do a detail so that it is a proposition that will assist disservice to the State. The Government made a effective policing and the Garda rather than be a commitment to recruit 2,000 additional gardaı´ burden. I support the thrust of the measures in before the previous general election, on which it the Bill and wish it had come before the House has reneged. No amount of fudging can cover some years ago. that up.

Mr. McHugh: I welcome the main provisions of Mr. M. Ahern: That is happening. The this Bill, namely, the reform of the law relating to Deputy’s statement is incorrect. the administration and management of the Garda Sıóchańa and, most importantly, the establish- Mr. McHugh: If the Government had not ment of an independent Garda ombudsman com- reneged on its promise, more gardaı´ would be on mission. The setting up of this commission is wel- the beat and there would have been a reduction come because there was a lack of confidence in in petty crime, intimidation and anti-social behav- the effectiveness of the Garda complaints board. iour. The blame for the continuation of these That was no wonder because gardaı´ were crimes lays firmly at the door of the Government investigating gardaı´. Even if everything was fine due its failure to deliver on its promise. The and above board, the idea of gardaı´ investigating additional gardaı´ have not been recruited and complaints against their colleagues was unsatis- trained nor are they on the street. They cannot factory. Not alone should justice be done, it contribute to the enforcement of law and order should be seen to be done. The composition of because they have not been recruited as a result the Garda complaints board, therefore, could not of the Government’s failure to meet its instil confidence in an increasingly suspicious commitment. public. These suspicions were fuelled by the rev- Mr. M. Ahern: The Deputy is completely off elations that emerged as a matter of course from the wall. the various tribunals. This section is welcome and the appointment of the personnel who will com- Mr. McHugh: The Minister for Justice, prise the new commission is awaited. Equality and Law Reform could do the State a Section 86, which provides for the referral of a service by tackling this issue and delivering complaint by the commission to the Garda Com- improvements to make the lives of people worth missioner for investigation, is totally living again. The provision of extra, fully unacceptable because it completely undermines resourced gardaı´ is the solution, not the introduc- the establishment and independence of the pro- tion of more legislation. Legislation is not a high posed Garda commission. The Minister is priority for criminals and they do not generally reverting to that which he purports to change. consult the Statute Book to ensure their activities The Garda is again being asked to investigate its comply with the law. We have enough legislation own members. The Minister likes to give the but we do not have enough properly resourced impression a new independent investigation pro- gardaı´. 1611 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1612

[Mr. McHugh.] ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who Section 33 places a duty on local authorities. will talk, spill the beans, tell us who the law- This is a waste of time because local authorities breakers are and how he knows, thereby nailing do not have the capacity or the capability to carry them all once and for all. out the functions delegated to them. This is Many people have been put on trial and con- another example of the insertion of a feel-good victed on the word of a senior garda on the basis provision in legislation. It makes everybody feel of information available to him. However, it now good but the provision is toothless and therefore appears that it is the Minister for Justice, Equality useless. It gives the impression that the principle and Law Reform who has all that pertinent infor- of subsidiarity is being employed, that the people mation and not the gardaı´. Perhaps it is time to are having their say and that the closest arm of enact one final Bill that would enable the Mini- Government to the people has an input into the ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to take delivery of law and order. This is a shambolic the stand to give evidence in court so that he exercise. The provision has been inserted so that, might finger all the law-breakers in the land in in future, when the Minister for Justice is criti- exactly the way in which senior gardaı´ have done cised for not addressing anti-social behaviour, he heretofore. One needs only the word of a high- or she can point to this legislation and state local ranking Minister, the Minister for Justice, authorities have a say and it is out of his or her Equality and Law Reform, and the offender goes hands. down. Imagine the savings to the Exchequer. It is of no benefit to harassed citizens to see the There would be no protracted Garda investi- current Minister pointing to legislation, quoting gations, no wasted expenditure taping Garda from the Statute Book and referring to previous interviews, no forensic investigations — just a Acts as his defence. Citizens want him to take one-man crimebuster, the Minister for Justice, effective action to rid the country of thugs. I have Equality and Law Reform. placed much emphasis on the need for extra com- Section 39 of the Act, which imposes an obli- munity gardaı´. However, the need is obvious to gation on the Garda Commissioner to supply all except the Government. There is also an criminal statistics to the Minister for Justice, urgent need to address more serious crime. In the Equality and Law Reform, is a total waste of lead up to the murder of Veronica Guerin, crimi- time, for several reasons. First, many members of nals were in control in Dublin. They appeared the public have formed the view that it is fruitless like celebrities on national television, dressed up to report certain incidents, and those crimes that in silly clothes and giving the two fingers to the are not reported are not put on the record that Garda and other law enforcers. Following the ter- the Garda might supply to the Minister. Even rible murder of Veronica Guerin, swift, decisive that will be used to put the best complexion on and effective action was taken and resources were the figures from the point of view of the Minister provided. The law was strengthened and the of the day. We are once again talking of statistics balance of effectiveness returned to the Garda. and damned lies. The Minister recently welcomed Unfortunately, however, we are quickly returning an 11% decrease in serious crime. It was not to the lawlessness which existed prior to the mur- based on all the years since the Government der of Veronica Guerin. came to office, since that would not have suited Criminals in Dublin have the confidence to its purposes. Such a comparison would have pro- march into a bar with a machine gun, waltz duced the wrong answer from its point of view. through it looking for somebody who fortunately Since 2000, serious crime has risen from approxi- is not present, swagger out of the pub, threaten mately 73,000 crimes to approximately 96,000. two uniformed members of the Garda and then We need no more legislation but more gardaı´ ride off into the sunset. That is a regrettable com- on the street and a Government that honours its mentary on law and order in our capital city but commitments to appoint such gardaı´ and equip it is the reality under the Government. We are them properly. reverting to the days when the criminals were in control. Mr. Deenihan: We in Fine Gael want the We do not want more legislation to deal with Garda Sıóchańa to be the best police force in the this issue. The criminals do not “do” legislation. world. That statement was made here by our We want more gardaı´ and better resources. spokesperson, Deputy Jim O’Keeffe, some weeks From time to time one could be forgiven for ago when he was speaking on this Bill. As history feeling that we do not need any gardaı´ at all to shows, we were the party that set up the Garda investigate crime and find out who the offenders Sıóchańa, and we are very proud of that. We have are. Going by the statement of the Minister for always been very supportive, and we are often Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy referred to as the law-and-order party, a brand McDowell, to the effect that he knows who is and description of which I always feel very proud. committing the crime, who are members of illegal To ensure that we have the best police force in organisations and so on, it seems that he makes the world, it must be the best resourced, some- his judgment simply and solely on the basis that thing that it is not. It must be the best trained, he knows what he knows. Now we want a Mini- and training is now of a very professional nature 1613 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1614 and improving. It must also be the best motiv- Mr. Timmins: He was a native of Gort. ated. Generally speaking, it is well motivated, but there are signs that people are becoming disil- Mr. Deenihan: The killings I have mentioned lusioned and that young people, when they enter continued and eventually culminated in the the force because it is their vocation and they assassination of Kevin O’Higgins, who was the have always wanted to be gardaı´, are sometimes first Minister for Justice, while he was walking to worn down by the back-up services, the resources Mass on 10 July 1927. The important decision and a feeling that they are operating in isolation that the Garda would be an unarmed force was and not receiving the right support from the Mini- taken following a training incident during the ster, the Department or this House, including early days of the force, when a Garda recruit acci- representatives here. The force must also be well dentally shot another Garda recruit. As I have managed — the best managed in the world if we said, the Garda Sıóchańa was established in the strive for that level of proficiency. It must be the Gresham Hotel in February 1922. During a best equipped, with cutting-edge technology and speech he made in Du´ n Laoghaire on 29 October decent, modern accommodation and equipment. 1923, Kevin O’Higgins stated: It is very important that we strive towards those There are over 600 Civic Guard stations objectives. The equipment that the Garda cur- established to date out of a total establishment rently has is not adequate, and, having spoken to which provides for 800 stations. They have several gardaı´ in Kerry, I was quite amazed at done and are doing splendid work in restoring their standard of equipment. I am sure the same order and stability in the country. Their dis- is true of the rest of the country. cipline is of a high order and gaining experi- Having prepared notes for this evening and ence from week to week they bid fair to looked back over some research, I feel it is worth become as fine a force as any country in the pointing out how the gardaı´ were set up and in world can show. Great credit is due to General what circumstances. This is the first legislation O’Duffy who in the most adverse circum- since the beginning of the State to address man- stances built up such an admirable service for agement and define the role of the various the people. elements that make up the Garda Sıóchańa. As We should recognise today that the Garda has we know, between the War of Independence in continued to make such a fine contribution since 1919 and the truce on 11 July, there was no law that time. We should remember those who lost here, where there was war. Negotiations were their lives in the defence of this country and entered into, culminating in the Anglo-Irish ensured that our freedoms are protected. Treaty, which was signed on 6 December 1921 Although there are exceptions, freedoms are pro- and ratified on 7 January 1922. tected and respected in this great country, gener- It is extraordinary that, on 9 February 1922, the ally speaking. There is a great deal of concern inaugural meeting of the Garda Foundation about the level of crime in certain areas, Committee took place in the Gresham Hotel especially urban districts. under the chairmanship of Michael Staines, who While I appreciate what the Bill before the was the first Commissioner. If one examines the House sets out to do, some gardaı´ are concerned early history of the Garda Sıóchańa, one can see that the Garda is subject to more scrutiny, redress what they went through to establish the force. It and accountability than any other public body. If reminded me of Iraq. When the new regime there one puts in place too much regulation and tried to set up a police force, the insurgents tar- bureaucracy, there is a danger that gardaı´ who geted it. That is why so many policemen in the are pursuing their duties, for example by new Iraq were slaughtered. When people queued investigating crime, will be more concerned with up to be recruited, they targeted them. This coun- protecting themselves than with ensuring that try was no different, and we should not forget perpetrators are punished, which should be their that. The young people who joined the Garda main goal. Gardaı´ need to know more than solici- Sıóchańa were targeted and viciously murdered. tors about the law and its enforcement. If they It is well worth remembering that, since it was do not have such knowledge, they will be totally only a little over 80 years ago. The first garda exposed by barristers when they appear in court. killed, on 8 November 1922, was Harry Phelan, Matters become more complicated as cases are from Mullinahone in County Tipperary. He was moved to higher levels of the justice system. ruthlessly slaughtered on his way home after pur- Gardaı´ sometimes become bogged down in chasing hurleys for a local team. In December bureaucracy and face increased levels of paper- 1923, Sergeant James Woods was murdered dur- work because of the need to ensure that they pro- ing an armed raid on the Garda station in Scart- tect themselves by complying with all legal aglen, in my home county of Kerry. Garda details. One does not see many gardaı´ on the Patrick Joseph O’Halloran was shot dead in 1924 streets because they are dealing with office work. in Baltinglass, in Deputy Timmins’s home county Most gardaı´ of my acquaintance would prefer to of Wicklow, while attempting to arrest two armed be on the beat, walking through estates in their bank raiders. local areas, for example, but it is impossible for 1615 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1616

[Mr. Deenihan.] closely with local communities, as its members them to do so because they are so busy with used to do before the demands of bureaucracy paperwork. Gardaı´ were able to do the job and office duties made it impossible for them to expected of them in the past, when they did not do so. have to deal with such high levels of paperwork While I was researching this speech, I read a and bureaucracy. They were free to police local document about Robert Peel who was born in communities, communicate with local people and 1788 and died in 1850. He devised his well-known offer the security that results from the presence nine principles of policing while he was estab- of a garda. lishing the London Metropolitan Police in 1829. Gardaı´ nowadays have to be very careful. They The seventh principle is that a police force should know they can easily be exposed if they make a “maintain at all times a relationship with the mistake in their evidence. We should bear in public that gives reality to the historic tradition mind that a garda can lose his or her job if he or that the police are the public and that the public she makes such an error. Trainee gardaı´ are told are the police; the police being only members of at the start of their careers they should ensure the public who are paid to give full-time attention they stay out of trouble. If they have family to duties which are incumbent on every citizen, responsibilities, for example, it is hard to blame in the interests of community welfare and them if they take an over-cautious approach. existence”. They meet the bureaucratic demands imposed on I have always said we are all responsible citi- them because they do not want to get into zens, that we are all police people. We have a trouble, and it is great if a prosecution results at duty to alert the Garda Sıóchańa if we feel some- the end of that process. We should be mindful of thing is not right or if people break the law. It is such considerations. impossible for the gardaı´ to police everything and I would like to highlight some aspects of the that is why it is important that the public trusts Bill. I agree with the proposal to establish a the gardaı´ and communicates to them any sus- Garda volunteer force, which was a Fine Gael picions about illegal activity. I hope that principle policy during the last general election campaign. of Peel’s, published nearly 200 years ago, can be There is some confusion about the process of sel- put in place for local authorities. Sections 30 to ecting and training people to serve on the volun- 34 give a statutory basis for involvement of local teer force, however, because the relevant section authorities in policing matters for the first time. of the Bill is vague and ambiguous. The Minister Interaction between local authorities and the recently announced that the volunteer force will gardaı´ is long overdue. It is a welcome step that comprise approximately 1,400 members. my party advocated in its justice policy at the Although they will not receive two years of train- last election. ing in the same way as mainstream gardaı´,itis If communities are to experience long-term significant that they will have the same powers as reductions in crime, local authorities must take full members of the force. I ask the official from on a dedicated oversight role in policing matters. the Minister’s office to ensure that the Minister Providing a forum for the gardaı´ and local auth- clarifies this aspect of the matter when he orities to exchange views and co-ordinate activi- responds to the debate. ties will result in real benefits to local communi- Given that mainstream gardaı´ who have ties. It will provide an opportunity for real received two years of training may have difficult- interaction and bring back a sense of ownership ies in interpreting a raft of legislation, what to a public that is becoming disenchanted with chance will volunteer officers have when they try the criminal justice system. The interaction to do the same? It is important that the Minister between the gardaı´ and community should be specifies the length of time that will be spent brought to an even more local level, with fora training the volunteer members. What type of including representatives from education, health training will they be given? Can the Minister give boards and political parties. There is a worry that substantive details of the training? Such details these local fora will simply become a way for poli- are needed if people are to be confident that the ticians to influence the gardaı´. It is important that volunteer force is effective. I favour the creation there is distance between Garda enforcement, of a volunteer force, as I have said, but volunteer duties and policy and local policy on Garda officers should not have the same powers as ordi- numbers and problem areas. The involvement of nary members of the Garda if they have not local authorities, however, would be a welcome received the same training. Fine Gael strongly development. In England and the United States, believes that volunteer members should not have local authorities have a much greater role in the same powers as permanent members unless policing. they undergo the exact same level of training. The ombudsman commission is welcome. Only then will my party be satisfied that volun- Those gardaı´ who do their duty and are commit- teer officers should have the same powers as ted to their jobs should not fear this. The Garda mainstream gardaı´. Complaints Board has been the focus of criticism I agree that local authorities should be involved for some time and does not enjoy the confidence in policing. It is important that the Garda works of the entire public. It is an easy target for those 1617 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1618 who want to attack the gardaı´ who say the board Bill, however, has two aims: to deal with the is the force investigating itself. I welcome, there- administration and management of the Garda fore, the decision to dissolve the board and opt and to establish the ombudsman commission and for the ombudsman model that we have advo- the inspectorate. cated for some time. The Minister should have I have great admiration for the Garda. When opted for one ombudsman instead of the Daíl we talk about arms of the State, the Garda or the appointing three people. We should have looked Defence Forces, we think in the abstract but all at the model in Northern Ireland. of these people have families and suffer the same Every effort should be made to advance the fears and anxieties as other members of the Garda station in Castleisland. If we want an public. They have been trained to deal with situa- example of a local unit of the force being neg- tions but they are human with all that entails. lected, it is to be seen in Castleisland, where They are not infallible. The vast majority do gardaı´ are being treated very poorly. much good and are admired by everyone in society but as is the case in the areas of education, Mr. Timmins: I welcome the opportunity to politics and the media, a small number of them speak on this Bill. Deputy Deenihan mentioned let the side down. While those few bad apples Garda Patrick O’Halloran who was shot in my must be dealt with in the most severe terms, it home town, Baltinglass, in 1924. Most people is unhealthy for us as a society to regard their would never even realise that he had existed; behaviour as a reflection of the general well- nothing commemorates him. He was shot while being of a particular force. following raiders after a bank robbery in the We have heard reports of what happened in town. Perhaps we might commemorate him as Donegal, where explosives were found on a farm, part of the Wicklow 400th anniversary cel- yet no one in headquarters asked why the farmer was never brought in for questioning. ebration. 5 o’clock The mind boggles in that regard and Most people have welcomed this Bill but I am the sooner we address those issues uneasy when more than one person does one job. the better because they would shake one’s confi- The Minister might end up with bodies overlap- dence. By and large, however, I have found ping. There are merits to each area, such as a members of the Garda Sıóchańa to be excellent. Garda inspectorate and ombudsman commission, They uphold their jobs in the best tradition of and the Commissioner being more accountable, the force. but I am uneasy about where the Commissioner Section 7 deals with various aspects, one of will end up. Will he spend his time looking over which is the security of the State. That is a diffi- his shoulder at all of these bodies keeping a cult task for a Garda force and an area in which watchful eye on him instead of doing his job? We we do not provide sufficient resources in terms of all welcomed the establishment of the Eastern properly securing the State. Apart from a certain Regional Health Authority, thinking it would intelligence gathering ability, there is very little bring medical services to the people, but it turned the Garda can do protect the security of the State. out to be a fiasco. If I could reclaim the hours I There is very little the Defence Forces can do to spent on the telephone chasing Billy and Jack, deal with an outside threat. I would have a great deal of valuable time on Section 7 deals with preventing crime. During my hands. lunch time I visited the National Library, some- The major shortcoming in the Bill is that it thing I used to do before I entered politics — I does not deal with accountability. We can have only done it on one occasion since I became produce crime statistics and extract any message a Member. I was reading some old newspapers we want from them. The present Government and by chance I came across a report about the parties were great at this when they were in late Robert Briscoe, whom I assume is the father Opposition. At a time when crime figures were of the former Member, Ben Briscoe, who was decreasing, they created the impression that they speaking at a Fianna Faíl meeting in Bray in 1928. He complained that one could talk in the Daíl for were increasing. We get the spin every time statis- three hours and not get three lines about it in the tics are released now that headline crime is down newspaper the following day. He may have been but from what I see, crime has increased. I have speaking in the context that he felt he did not tabled questions about my constituency that bear have an arm of the media through which to vent this out. In Blessington, in 2000 there were 120 his views, perhaps at a time before the Irish Press crimes across all headings, with 40 detected. Last was established. Incidentally, another Deputy at year there were 160 crimes with 40 detected. The the meeting complained about the state of the detection rate had decreased by 30% while crime roads in west Wicklow, and that holds true today. had increased by 30%. Until we can have uniform With regard to the prevention of crime, we crime statistics published every month, where we could intervene at a very early stage in the area can compare X in one month with X+YorX- of education. I have articulated that view in the Y the following month, we will never have true House for many years but it has fallen on deaf accountability. The Commissioner could be ears. I tabled parliamentary questions on it to the brought in once the Bill is enacted and told that former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law his performance had improved or declined. The Reform, Deputy O’Donoghue, because I got the 1619 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1620

[Mr. Timmins.] cal representatives are elected by the public. The impression that some civil servants had travelled best person for the job is someone from the abroad to examine the correlation between dys- Garda force. It is important that position remains lexia and crime. Statistics are available to back within the remit of the Garda because a garda, that up. A Channel 4 documentary on a juvenile through his or her involvement with the force delinquent centre in Scotland indicated that the over many years, attains certain skills which rate of dyslexia among the residents was in the someone even from another security background region of 50% whereas the national average was could not match. between 4% and 8%. That is a problem we have Section 14 deals with the volunteer force, a done very little to address. Many people who are subject alluded to by previous speakers. While I ostracised by society because they cannot fit into welcome the principle I am concerned that the our education system strike back by carrying out standing of the gardaı´ would be undermined by a violent acts. force that may not have met the same training Some evidence emerged recently from schools requirements but yet have the same powers. That in Waterford where pupils had difficulties in cer- area must be examined. If such a force had the tain mainstream schools. When they went to a same powers as the gardaı´, what is the point in school that recognised and dealt with those prob- training the gardaı´ to a different level or vice lems, however, the behaviour of those individ- versa? I would be wary of giving this force the uals, who now felt part of an inclusive society, same powers as the gardaı´. There must be a improved dramatically. I ask the Minister to demarcation line in terms of powers, otherwise examine that area in conjunction with the Mini- some gardaı´ will be better trained than others and ster for Education and Science. My understand- that will undermine the morale of the main force. ing is that until recently there was nothing on the Section 15 deals with a form of attestation, the primary education curriculum to assist teachers in swearing of allegiance and a commitment by identifying the condition of dyslexia. Until a few gardaı´ not to involve themselves in any political years ago, the individual was sent to the back of party or secret society. It is difficult to get people the classroom because it was deemed that their involved in political parties nowadays — I would intelligence level was not very high, that they not say there is a great demand for that but it is could not manage and that nothing could be done important that members of the Garda are impar- to assist them. tial. They started off in very difficult circum- There is mention of road traffic offences in the stances, as outlined by my colleague, Deputy Bill. This is an area that should be taken out of Deenihan, and they have rightly remained politi- the control of the Garda. The possibility of set- cally neutral, irrespective of the Government in ting up a road traffic force has been mooted. I power. They work to the best of their ability for ask the Minister to consider before Committee the Minister for Justice of the day. Stage whether it is advisable to enshrine in legis- Section 16 deals with a code of ethics. Perhaps lation the concept of gardaı´ dealing with road it is the way society has evolved, but I listened to traffic offences. It is only part of their job. I often the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and feel they just want to keep up the rate of sum- Local Government talk about enshrining in the mons. I am aware from speaking to some superin- guidelines the need for planners to be courteous. tendents that gardaı´ go out on the busiest stretch There may be some basis for that. We can all of road and stop poor individuals like myself argue individual cases but it is a sad day when we doing 37 mph in a 30 mph zone or the Minister have to enshrine in codes of practice the need to of State, Deputy Conor Lenihan, who was caught be courteous to people. In terms of the gardaı´, a few times by speed cameras, as he proudly we can all relate our own bad experiences, but admitted. It can happen to anyone. Some of the for every bad experience, we have had 100 good more serious traffic incidents are missed because experiences. gardaı´ are trying to reach their quota of sum- Section 18 deals with civilian staff of the Garda mons issued. Sıóchańa. I note from the Disability Bill that the Garda Sıóchańa is excluded from the require- Mr. C. Lenihan: I agree with the Deputy on ment that 3% of the force be made up of people that matter. with disabilities. I hope the Minister will allow a certain number of people with disabilities to Mr. Timmins: Whether one breaks the law by apply and be appointed to the various civilian one mile or 50 miles, one deserves the punish- positions. Perhaps that aspect should be ment that goes with the crime. Gardaı´ should not addressed in the Disability Bill rather than this involve themselves in the administration of road Bill — the Minister’s official might take a note traffic offences. of it. Section 9 deals with the appointment of the Sections 19 to 22, inclusive, deal with the con- Garda Commissioner. It is often said on some of cept of the Minister having an operational input the popular chat shows that the Garda Com- into the Garda Sıóchańa. One sees danger when missioner should be appointed from outside the one reads that. Is it right that a politician should Garda Sıóchańa. I would be very much opposed direct the Garda Commissioner? The Minister is to that. That is akin to saying the Taoiseach given stringent powers over the Commissioner. should be appointed from outside politics. Politi- There are pros and cons. Many Members com- 1621 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1622 plain about the way politicians have handed over that there are adequate numbers of gardaı´ on power to, say, Bord Faílte, An Bord Pleana´la and the streets. so on and that we should take responsibility for Section 26 deals with payment for services. I political actions. If the Minister is behaving in an noted the recent claim by the Minister for improper manner and not in the best service of Defence that banks will pay the Defence Forces the people, there is a forum here for him to be for cash escorts in line with practice in the dealt with and, ultimately, the public can deal Department of Justice, Equality and Law with him. In the current scenario the Minister Reform. The section refers to the provision of always retorts to parliamentary questions by say- services for concerts or functions at which it is ing he does not have operational responsibility. It deemed there may be a security or public order may not, therefore, be a bad approach in the threat and at which large numbers may gather. I grand scheme of things. I hope Ministers for am slightly uneasy about the provisions. While it Justice, Equality and Law Reform will adopt a is populist to say the banks should be charged, sensible approach, irrespective of who they are, and I like the sound of the proposal, I am con- which does not involve changing things radically. cerned about the principle involved. Will it I do not mean we should never make changes, depend on the level of funding available to one but change for its own sake or to make a mark whether one can purchase the services of an arm can be dangerous. of the State? I would like to think that in a demo- Sections 21 and 29 deal with two hobby horses cratic republic the institutions of the State would of mine, one of which involves the geographic protect any individual going about his or her rou- areas of responsibility of the Garda. I assume tine business, be it social or otherwise. Garda districts as currently established were While I do not say services have been abused created at the foundation of the State, a matter to date, it is up to the State to create an envir- which must be addressed. I recommend change onment in which one can carry out routine activi- on a county basis, especially in the outlying areas ties. Many of the events outlined in section 26 are outside Dublin. There are three or four superin- routine and ordinary. Some business may be able tendents with responsibility for different parts of to afford to pay for Garda services and act County Wicklow which makes it very difficult to responsibly, but others may decide to take a chance. We may end up with a ministerial discover who is in charge. The public do not know directive to the effect that anyone who holds a who their local superintendent is unless it is in a function which will be attended by more than 100 rural area where he or she is long established. It people, such as a wedding, must have a Garda is difficult to provide accountability in such cir- presence. What if it is the second wedding of a cumstances. I hope the Commissioner will, with divorcee? While the question is a little flippant, it the approval of the Minister, consider redrawing illustrates the point I wish to make. Where will the areas of operational responsibility of the var- the line be drawn and how will such events be ious districts along county lines. Redrawn districts dealt with? While supporters at a football match would be much more beneficial and would allow between Kerry and Wexford are generally very people to identify more readily the areas of compliant, those from other counties might not responsibility. be. Section 29 deals with the distribution of gardaı´. In the Wicklow-Wexford area, there is approxi- Mr. Stagg: Just within Wicklow perhaps. mately one garda for every 730 people whereas there is one for every 200 in Cork and one for Mr. Timmins: That is to be borne in mind. every 300 in Dublin, despite the fact that the There are always strong calls for gardaı´ to attend population is very tightly knit. The Commissioner matches in Wicklow, but it is not something I must consider the redeployment of gardaı´ under would wish on any garda. the powers granted to him in section 29. As one does not like to uproot people with family ties in An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy an area, and we refer regularly to involving gardaı´ should conclude. in communities, graduates from Templemore should be placed in areas in which there is a low Mr. Timmins: I have not even got to deal with ratio of gardaı´ in the population. the main elements of the Bill which are the If one examined the figures in detail, one inspectorate and the ombudsman. In section 31 would find a high ratio in Border areas, which the Minister appears to reverse the abolition of proportion it may no longer be necessary to sus- the dual mandate. It is perhaps sad that the Com- tain. There are areas of rapidly increasing popu- missioner is required to establish a committee to lation in Meath, Kildare and Wicklow which have liaise with the public to find out what they want. low garda numbers for purely historical reasons. A local garda used always know what the public That is an issue that must be addressed. Garda wanted. numbers in Greystones, Blessington and Ennis- I am delighted to see the inclusion of sections kerry are low and there are some locations which 41 and 42 which address the liability of members do not have Garda stations. We must increase the of the force. Very often members of the security Garda presence to allow people who come into forces have been left to paddle their own canoes communities to rest assured in their beds at night when they have, rightly or wrongly, acted in the 1623 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1624

[Mr. Timmins.] stressed by a number of speakers that this mainly best interests of the State. I have seen people occurs in large council estates. However, that is thrown to the wolves and left to defend their own not true of my area as there are no large council corners. Having served with the United Nations, estates. At least 90% of housing there consists of I welcome the recognition in the Bill of inter- private estates. The same scourge of anti-social national duty. I found the gardaı´ stationed in Pyla behaviour as described in large urban areas is just and Nicosia in Cyprus to be excellent at all times. as prevalent in my area with the same negative I conclude by voicing my unease at the concept effects on the quality of life of law-abiding of having a Minister who directs a Commissioner citizens. who looks over one shoulder at the three-person The form this activity takes is that public areas ombudsman and over the other at the three-per- are colonised by young people aged between 15 son inspectorate. It will be a little uncomfortable and 20 years. They drink, play loud music, use for a person who should operate without having loud, rough language and cause fear and annoy- to look anywhere. ance to local law-abiding people. They effectively exclude others from using publicly provided Mr. Stagg: I welcome the Bill and the oppor- facilities. We have several instances where ped- tunity to speak on it. I refer to police numbers, estrian routes that were provided for the con- crime rates, detection rates and anti-social venience of local residents have had to be closed activity in my constituency and the measures permanently to put an end to the thuggery. which must be applied to deal with the problems I attended a meeting last night about a lane we face. The measures in the Bill may go some known as the Grove Lane which serves a large way towards doing so. The Labour Party spokes- private housing estate. The residents did not man, Deputy Costello, has dealt with the main speak about getting the Garda to do anything thrust of the Bill and outlined the party’s position about the issue. They had given up on the possi- on it. bility of the force doing anything about it as the My constituency encompasses the north-east problem had been ongoing for 20 years. They corner of County Kildare, an area in which there wanted to know if the lane could be closed and has been a population explosion as a result of the taken into the adjoining private properties to massive zoning of land for residential develop- exclude the thuggish element. That was the only ment. Provision has not been made in the area solution they could see, even though it would be for infrastructure and services at the level a major convenience for people living in the required for the greatly increased population. estate to access the main street. The geographically small area in question is In the private estate of Castletown in Celbridge served by three separate Garda divisions, which where the residents association sought action is a similar scenario to that outlined by Deputy against the elements I have described, the chair- Timmins. Leixlip is covered by the Dublin div- man of the association was targeted. His car was ision, Kilcock by the Louth division and Naas and repeatedly attacked, as was his house. The Garda the rest of the county by the Carlow-Kildare div- was unable to assist. The man and his family had ision. The splintering of authority makes it vir- to sell up and move out. The young thugs won tually impossible to properly organise the police and now they know they are untouchable. They force to act in the public interest in the area. know there is no consequence for their actions There is no Garda station in Leixlip, the second despite that they were in breach of several differ- largest town in the constituency, with a popu- ent laws. The law is not being enforced. The lation of 18,000. While a station has been prom- Garda was not in a position to assist. ised since 1997, not a brick has been laid on a What do the parents of these young thugs think brick in the past eight years. There is a clear need of their children’s actions or do they think they for a new Garda division to cover the densely have any responsibility for their control? I am populated north Kildare area and provide Garda certain they do not think so. I am convinced they services there with the organisational focus and do not give a damn. It is time for the law to manpower to tackle the many problems which are ensure that parents should shoulder their currently untouched. As a result of organisational responsibility, know what their offspring are up mayhem and inadequate staffing, serious diffi- to, be required to take corrective action and carry culties have developed. Crime has increased by the consequences if they do not do so. 53% in the Carlow-Kildare division while the It is important to state clearly that only a small detection rate of 31% is the lowest in the State. minority of young people are involved in anti- On the basis of population figures for the area, a social behaviour. Since they know there is no further 100 gardaı´ are required to bring the sanction and that they can get away with it, they number of officers up to the inadequate national make life miserable for a significant number of average. It is possible to address this problem people and sometimes whole communities. under section 29 of the Bill. I wonder whether we I am aware of the causes or reasons behind need new legislation or simply increased numbers such behaviour which have been written about in of gardaı´ who are properly organised and many reports. Not only am I prepared to be tough deployed to serve the community. The leader of on the causes of crime, I am also prepared to be the Labour Party recently commenced a debate tough on the criminals or law breakers. Old on the issue of anti-social behaviour. It has been women living alone, community activists or a per- 1625 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1626 son who is singled out cannot wait for long-term also equivalent to that proposed for the Six Coun- solutions to changed behaviour patterns. They ties under the Patten reforms. need the culprits dealt with today and tonight. I propose to deal exclusively with the Mini- The Garda, as it is currently organised and ster’s proposal to establish joint policing commit- deployed, is incapable of dealing with this tees as set out in Part 2, Chapter 4, sections 30 scourge. We need many community gardaı´ patrol- to 34, which deals with co-operation with local ling housing estates and public areas. Token authorities and arrangements for obtaining the numbers for short periods is not a solution. Their views of the public. If we want the policing ser- presence and the intelligence they collect will be vice in this State to rank among the best in the a major deterrent and will not require large world, and why would we not, it is essential that numbers of young people to be locked up. Young it be made accountable to the local communities vandals and thugs need to know there will be real it serves and to work in partnership with them. It sanctions if they transgress and that they will not is that simple. The Sinn Feín proposals for the get away with it. If it takes community orders, establishment of community policing partnerships curfews or cleaning up the mess they made, so at district level are the fundamental linchpin in be it. our Garda reform package. It is this element on I wish to raise one other issue of regular public which the objective of restoring confidence in the disorder which does not concern my area but is a Garda will either succeed or fail. national malaise. I refer to the pitched battles I do not overstate the case. One can see from every weekend outside discos or nightclubs after the extensive response from across the State to they have closed. I am amazed that more people the recent call of the Joint Oireachtas Committee have not been killed. This occurs in every town on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s where there is a nightclub. Gardaı´ do not appear Rights for submissions on community policing to be present until the battles are over and then and the similar response to the earlier Lord they pick up what is left behind. One man died Mayor of Dublin’s commission on crime. Our last weekend from such an incident. There have party was represented on that commission by the been many serious injuries. I have seen such Sinn Feín councillor, Christy Burke, and Dublin battles occur in towns in the west. It happens Sinn Feín made its own submission. While not all every weekend in every town in which there is a our recommendations were adopted exactly as nightclub and nothing is done about it. There is a submitted, I welcome that Sinn Feín’s influence silence around this matter as if it did not occur. is evident in the commission’s conclusions. There are pitched battles on the streets of Ballin- Deputies on all sides of this House know too robe, Ballyhaunis, Claremorris and so on. well the widespread concerns about street viol- Mullingar was in the headlines last weekend. No ence, drug-related crime and anti-social behav- action is taken. The various anti-drinking iour that is not criminal but disruptive. People measures have had no effect on this dangerous feel vulnerable in their homes and communities. and regular activity. Some people have been This is not right. Everyone should have an equal killed and many have been seriously injured in right to security and this should not be dependent these weekly confrontations. Why are these on one’s wealth or social status. People deserve to nightclubs and discos, whose activities give rise to rely on the Garda for assistance and protection. such behaviour, allowed to continue? However, the reality is that very many, partic- The Bill to reorganise the Garda is welcome. I ularly in working class housing estates, do not repeat the oft-stated maxim that a police force even bother to report now because they believe cannot be effective if it does not have the confi- that help will not be forthcoming. That is an dence and support of the public. A great deal of indictment of the present situation and this legis- work remains to be done in that regard. It would lation must contribute to changing it. A signifi- greatly help if gardaı´ always remembered they cant lack of policing obtains in working class are the servants of the people. estates, particularly in my constituency. I negotiated with the local superintendent to try to have Mr. Morgan: My colleague, Deputy O´ additional foot patrols rather than just a motor- Snodaigh, stated Sinn Feín’s view of the existing ised presence in these areas. We had a measure case for fundamental Garda reform and wel- of success for a short while, but unfortunately all comed on behalf of our party the opportunity to of that ended. There is also a significant comment on this long-overdue, if flawed, Garda unacceptable response from the gardaı´ when they reform legislation. Deputy Crowe addressed the are called. For example, I have had many rep- need to replace the Minister’s proposed ombuds- resentations from constituents who phoned the man commission with a single Garda ombudsman Garda who complained that it took up to two with equal powers to that in the Six Counties in hours for a garda to arrive. In some cases there keeping with the Good Friday Agreement strand were four or five hours of a delay and on a few three commitments to equivalence in human occasions there was no response at all. That is rights protections between both jurisdictions. most unacceptable. It is a problem that simply Deputy Ferris reviewed the shortcomings of the must be resolved. Minister’s proposed Garda inspectorate in Part 5 I have an interesting example of a large public of the Bill and argued the need to establish a housing estate where there were Garda patrols policing board for civilian management oversight, for a short while. We were trying to negotiate 1627 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1628

[Mr. Morgan.] adequate social investment, appropriate deploy- with the superintendent to resolve some of the ment of Garda resources, and the fostering of policing issues. In fairness, he responded some- local community co-operation on policing matters what in terms of sending people along to meet- that will make a difference. Certainly the com- ings of community groups and residents associ- munity is up for it. Above all, this must be ations to try to discover the issues first-hand. founded on a relationship of accountability and Apparently, however, he did not stick with that, mutual trust, established at the most basic level whether because of the manpower shortages, as of all, the beat level. he claims, or whatever. Let us contrast that scen- Sinn Feín therefore recommends the establish- ario with a recent incident where some youths ment on a statutory basis of community policing from the estate threw stones at motorists on a partnerships, CPPs, at Garda district level nearby roadway. The Garda response was swift throughout the State to increase Garda trans- and they offered a solution to the problem. They parency, to promote community trust and co- suggested that they would erect a large fence operation, and to hold the gardaı´ fully to account around this significant housing scheme of 800 to the people they serve. The relationship of houses. Is that collective internment? Is that accountability between district superintendent Guantanamo Bay? Is that a proper solution in and such community-policing partnerships should such circumstances? It is not. That is a ridiculous be analogous to the relationship we propose response, altogether. between the Commissioner and policing board. In Again, in a number of these housing estates this way, the community-policing partnership there is the whole issue surrounding youths stand- would have a liaison role between the district ing about drinking alcohol at corners or on the commander and the local community, and green areas. Now it is illegal to do that. Legis- thereby become a mechanism for both com- lation and by-laws from the local authority are in munity accountability and co-operation. place and yet the gardaı´ do not confiscate the We propose that each local authority should drink from the youths. I can understand this when establish community-policing partnerships, one it gets late into the night because it would create per policing district, as committees of the council, a riot at that point. However, one patrol car earl- on the following basis. The local authority should ier on in the late afternoon or early evening, with elect their members. The nomination process proper manpower to confiscate the drink from should be transparent and based on published the youths at that stage, would obviate the need criteria. As with the proposed policing board, the for four patrol cars coming out in the middle of final composition should be one third elected rep- the night to try to deal with the consequences of resentatives — of a cross-party nature — one the binge drinking that had been going on all day. third representatives from local statutory agen- There is also an issue as regards shops being per- cies, and one third from the local community and mitted to sell alcohol. In areas such as this not voluntary sector. Each component group should many shops sell alcohol and it is quite easy to comprise at least 50% women and, with a view to identify them and to whom they are selling. increasing diversity and representation, reflect as Unfortunately, as well as the major social issue fully as possible the actual composition of the involving the shop owners, there is a policing communities in the district in terms of class, eth- issue, too, to be tackled. nicity, etc. Every village and town in the State knows only There should be monthly public meetings too well about the whole issue of drugs. In most between the community policing partnership and of these communities we know who the drug the district superintendent, at which he or she dealers are. I do not expect the Garda to intern should present reports and answer questions. The them but why do they not look for evidence? The CPP members in turn should have the oppor- public at large sees what is going on and a signifi- tunity and responsibility to reflect community cant number of people are more than willing to concerns and priorities, and to make recommend- co-operate with the Garda in terms of ending the ations. There should also be a mechanism for scourge of drug dealing, particularly in large members of the public to address questions to the working class areas, and everywhere else as well. superintendent at the public meetings, through The problem is in every town and village and yet the CPP chairperson. The superintendent should it is not being dealt with. My constituents regu- be required to take CPP views into account when larly ask me “why?” Truthfully, I cannot tell them formulating or implementing policing plans and why there is not a far greater crackdown on that strategies for the district. type of activity. It is crucial that these community policing part- What is the best way to respond to this crisis in nerships are based on an equal partnership confidence, to ensure that the security needs of approach between police and community. Their communities are met, that the resources the tax- powers should not be unnecessarily limited. payer pays into the policing service are spent in a Appointments to the partnerships must be open responsible and effective way? I submit that it is to all without discrimination. They should be not the Minister’s ill-conceived anti-social behav- obliged by law to meet in public. They should iour orders nor his proposed extension of Garda provide a forum for public consultation at district powers, but the proper, accountable use of exist- level on annual policing plans. To improve trans- ing powers and crime prevention through parency and public confidence, the Garda should 1629 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1630 make all requested information available for into policing priorities. Both have also com- public scrutiny unless the CPP agrees that it is plained that the committees proposed by the clearly in the public interest — not just police Minister will have no role in monitoring Garda interest — to withhold such information. There performance or the protection of civil liberties. should also be a requirement on Garda command They point out that, whereas a proper community to give after-the-fact explanations for actions of policing forum represents the community, the Bill gardaı´. Each CPP should publish an annual only provides for local councillors to sit on the report, including recommendations, to which the joint policing committees. The Irish Human Garda Commissioner should be required to have Rights Commission has called for specific pro- due regard in the operational management of the visions on representation with the involvement of service. The Minister should also be required to groups in communities with particular policing take notice of CPP recommendations in the needs or which experience high levels of contact formulation of policy for which he or she has with the Garda. The commission has also called responsibility. on the Minister to ensure these provisions are at While the local policing forums that have been least equivalent to those provided for in the Six piloted in some areas of Dublin are a welcome Counties. step, they do not provide the right model for com- The Sinn Feín Party shares these concerns munity accountability as they are not based on which will be addressed by our counter proposals. equal partnership. Existing policing forums In view of the Minister’s relative openness to should be converted into the new community- strengthening his proposals for Garda reform, I policing partnerships. hope he will accept our party’s constructive I welcome the Minister’s recognition by amendments to strengthen the local democratic inclusion of the provisions at Part 2, Chapter 4 control and co-operation aspects of the proposed that there needs to be some level of local involve- legislation. This will be necessary if our party is ment in policing matters. I acknowledge that he to support the Garda Sıóchańa Bill. seems to have taken several of our recommendations on board, although he has diluted them. Mr. Connaughton: Everything that could be However, while the Minister’s proposals on possibly said about the Garda Sıóchańa has been enhanced co-operation between local authorities said since this Bill was published. However, it is and the Garda represent an improvement on the a serious matter and there are several issues that present situation, they do not meet the same stan- I wish to raise. I have no problem with the main dards of transparency and local democratic con- thrust of the Bill; in some matters I wanted the trol and accountability as the community policing Minister to go further. partnerships Sinn Feín proposed. The newly pro- There are two fundamental issues important posed joint policing committees still do not get for the future of law and order in the State. The it right. Garda Sıóchańa earns the public’s trust and Section 31 gives the Minister ultimate discre- respect. However, this can be a two-edged sword. tion in the establishment and composition of the Despite attempts by groups in society to fracture committees. It also gives him the ultimate say on this trust, it remains to a large degree. Whatever when they will meet in public and in camera. the Garda does, it must always remember the Section 32 prevents them from considering spec- most important ace in its hand is that the public ific investigations or matters of public security. trusts it and wants it in place on its behalf. There is no provision requiring the Garda Com- However, if that trust and goodwill go, whether missioner or the Minister to take account of their it is 12,000 or 20,000 members in the force, it will views and recommendations. not be possible to run a democracy. Section 34 confers on the Minister ultimate It is becoming the in thing to do down the control over any arrangement for obtaining the Garda, a dangerous path for society to take. views of the public on policing. It is not the right There is the serious matter of some parts of formula to establish the committees at local auth- Dublin city, other cities and large towns, loosely ority level, with the establishment of more local described as no-go areas for the Garda. Irrespec- community policing fora only as an option. It tive of what it will take on the part of the remains too centralised. Local accountability and Oireachtas, the Judiciary and local community community co-operation mechanisms must groups, there is a thin blue line between those coincide with the structures of the Garda Sıóch- who want to get on with their work and believe ańa which often bear no relation to the local elec- in freedom and thugs and disturbers. If the thugs toral area. Likewise, the Sinn Feín Party rejects get half a chance, they will wreck community life. the division level as too distant to allow proper No other group can stand on that thin blue line democratic control. other than the Garda Sıóchańa. The Minister’s proposed model has also been Like other sections in society such as politicians criticised by the Irish Human Rights Commission and the clergy, the force has come under the and the Irish Council for Civil Liberties. In their microscope as peculiar events have happened view the provisions of Part 2, Chapter 4 are too within it. I have enough respect, belief and confi- narrow in function and membership to put in dence in it that these will be overcome. I sincerely place a community policing model. They argue hope we will have a police force of which we all the Bill does not allow for direct community input can be proud. For every bad apple in the Garda 1631 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1632

[Mr. Connaughton.] ference to them who they hurt; they seem to get Sıóchańa there is a barrel full of good ones. I a kick out of creating trouble. know men and women who have dedicated their I wish to refer to community policing. I am a lives to the job, who held their heads high from little confused about the number of gardaı´ in the the day they became a Garda recruit until the day force. According to the reply to a parliamentary they retired. It is unfair to draw general con- question a few days ago, the number is 12,200 but clusions because of the ridiculous carry-on of a the Taoiseach and the Minister tell us that there few members of the force, irrespective of rank. are 14,000 gardaı´. Which figure is correct? I The community’s trust in the police force must be believe that while we might aspire to having worked on intensely to ensure the continuation 14,000 gardaı´, the current number is 12,200. of the bond of friendship and contract between Regardless of what the number is, there are not both. enough gardaı´ doing the work they should be I agree with the Minister’s proposal of a three doing. person ombudsman commission. People argue It is true I do not know what happens in Dublin academically whether it should be similar to the city at night but I do know what happens in structure in place in Northern Ireland. It will, Galway and Limerick cities and, in particular, however, be much better than the existing Police Ballinasloe, Tuam and even small towns such as Complaints Board. I do not have a dagger out for Mountbellew, where I live. It is usually a quiet the board. I understand it did its best, working peaceful place. When the doors of the discos in within its given remit. However, people quickly these big towns are opened at 2.30 a.m. or 3 a.m., lose interest when police investigate police. I people flow out onto the street. They go down to hope the proposed commission will be seen to be the local chip shop and a fight develops. There absolutely independent, without the slightest might be 150 to 500 people there. How can one smell of collusion. The Minister has proposed var- expect two or three gardaı´ in a patrol car to ious levels for the commission’s remit, allowing impose law and order when an ugly and intense for the difference between minor and other indis- fight breaks out? It would be the most unequal cretions. The Garda Commissioner will adjudi- row of all time. One cannot expect the gardaı´ to cate on these matters. Society has come to the win it. We must minimise the opportunities point where one has to define a small indis- people have to congregate in that fashion. It is cretion. However, it must be remembered it could not a question of closing down the country. be a large indiscretion to the individual affected However, if a row must occur, there is a better and every case, or at least the decision involved, chance of the police being there if it occurs earlier should be vetted by the ombudsman’s office in the night. before it is communicated to anybody. That There is a lack of manpower. Take, for stamp should be attached in order that it will be example, a peaceful area such as east Galway. clear that it was independent. Nearly every town and village holds discos, On many occasions members of the public have although on a smaller scale than in the big cities. not accepted the findings of the police complaints Consider the number of gardaı´ available at that board. However, this is a two way street. There hour of the night, taking account of the rostering are occasions when pressure is put on the police system. There are four gardaı´ in Athenry but the force and it is aggravated to a degree where four are not on duty at the same time. One cannot people hope it will respond. A couple of years expect them to be. They are entitled to time off ago I was leaving the House through the Kildare like everybody else. On occasion only one garda Street gate. Gardaı´ were lined up in riot gear. I is on duty. How can one expect one person to be forget what the demonstration was about but it in control of a town such as Athenry, given all was rowdy. I was standing behind the row of pol- the events that can occur during the night after a icemen. Two thugs, in the hope of starting a disco? The Minister should think about this. The racket, spat through the vizor of a policeman’s information he is getting from the Garda Com- helmet. Imagine how degrading that is. missioner must be informing him that the stations I have not received the relevant training but if are short of staff. I had been that policeman, the thug would not When one tables a parliamentary question on have spat at me a second time. However, if a this matter to the Minister — this also applies to policeman were to react in any way other than his predecessor — the reply always states the the way he is trained to do, there would be huge Minister is informed by the Garda authorities trouble. The public should understand gardaı´ are that there are sufficient numbers for the job in put under enormous pressure at such times. Of hand. However, everybody in the country, includ- course, their training equips them to deal with ing local gardaı´, says there are not enough. How this but nobody should forget that pressure. is it that the Minister, his predecessors and the Where a garda, of whatever rank, steps out of line Garda Commissioner have the same story? Is it and breaks the rules, he or she should be brought that when one gets to a certain level, either in to justice like every other citizen. However, there government or in the force, one believes the is another side to that coin. I sincerely hope, with maxim that if the resources are better utilised, regard to public order, that many of the thugs one one can work with the existing numbers? sees in towns and cities will be brought to book. The Minister will say the crime figures are They are simply seeking trouble. It makes no dif- reducing and, thankfully, certain categories are. 1633 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1634

However, what about the loutish behaviour the come progress made economically since around Minister has referred to so often recently? I do 1993-94. However, for many people, the cancer not know the figures for such crime; I doubt any- of anti-social behaviour has destroyed the greater body has correct figures because much of this economic resources. The lack of community crime is unreported. The time at which it is com- policing and a Garda patrolling service on the mitted and the fact that so little is known about streets of cities, towns and villages is destroying the perpetrators mean it is difficult to keep the capacity of people to live wholesome lives. account of it. I believe its incidence is greatly This week, we had the culmination of a series increased. It must be nipped in the bud. A thug of killings in Dublin, one of those in Dublin 15. under 20 years of age who creates trouble on the There is a real sense of impunity among criminal main street of Ballinasloe and gets away with it is gangs under this Minister for Justice, Equality likely, if given a free rein, to become a major and Law Reform. One of the criminal per- criminal by the time he is 30 years of age. By then petrators in the Ongar area could stand undis- he believes he is unstoppable. guised in a neighbourhood for a number hours That brings me to the concept of community stalking and waiting for the victim whom he then policing. Every report I have seen on policing shot to death. The Minister held an earlier prede- anywhere in the world reaches the same con- cessor of his, the former Deputy Owen, person- clusion, that there must be com- ally responsible every time a post office was 6 o’clock munity police. If a garda believes he robbed. Killers are now walking the streets with or she can be in direct contact with guns, stalking their victims in broad daylight in the community when he or she spends all of his an area in which thousands of young people have or her time either on a telephone in an office or committed their life savings to purchase new inside a squad car, he or she is not making pro- homes. These are scenes we might have seen in gress. It is that simple. It is as if politicians had “Gangs of New York”. This is the type of policing no contact with anybody. The result is that one and deterrence that the current Government has does not have elementary information. I know given us, in spite of the fact that it once promised some community gardaı´. They know almost zero tolerance. It is hardly bearable. everyone in the area and almost everything that A report was published yesterday on the is going on. In debates such as this during the Tallaght area that was part of a larger study, the years, some people tried to convince us that this is useless information, but it is not. The pup that first part of which was published six months ago. creates trouble on the street in Ballinasloe, Tuam I attended the presentation and I am not sure if or Mountbellew and gets away with it is on to a anyone from the Progressive Democrats Party good thing. This is where criminality starts if was present. There may have been members of there is no deterrent. If we want to nip this in the Garda present. The study listed the fears of the bud, we must take this loutish behaviour very young children, who are supposed to be growing seriously. However we pay them, we want more up cherished by this society. They feared people police here. with drugs and guns hanging around playgrounds There is Garda involvement with young people and approaches from drug pushers in school- in the school warden schemes and other types of yards. It also referred to the fears of these chil- youth work. Some people suggest that such dren as they listened to joy-riders at night on the activity is Garda time badly spent. I have the streets of west Dublin. Some of these children opposite view. When I spoke about trust, I was have probably never spoken to a garda or met a referring to that wonderful connection that garda in the school classroom. I agree completely people have with people they can trust. There is with Deputy Connaughton. The presence of no better time to develop trust than when people gardaı´ in the community is not a waste of time, are young, have no preconceived ideas and take as children can get to know the gardaı´ and begin people at face value. There is nothing better than to feel safe in their own community, as ought to a policeman training school wardens for a couple be the case. of hours. I hope the youth programmes in which The experience of anti-social behaviour in our gardaı´ are involved will be maintained and inten- communities can be far worse than the experi- sified in the future. ence of sectarianism, sexism or racism. Much anti-social behaviour also spirals into those areas. Ms Burton: I want to use the opportunity of There is a crisis in Ireland with anti-social behav- speaking on this Bill to invite the Minister to iour and the rule of impunity that currently seems revisit issues on urban crime and disorder, to exist. Gun crime relates to anti-social behav- especially in the greater Dublin area and in my iour because the criminal gangs that have easy constituency of Dublin West. I have debated access to guns are also the godfathers that have a these issues with the Minister on a number of disproportionate influence in working class hous- occasions. I know he has been learning and he ing estates. These godfathers can push drugs in may now know a bit more about anti-social housing estates partly because they have guns and behaviour in the community. Communities because they are making so much money out of around the country, particularly in urban areas, crime. They can walk with a swagger in areas are enduring a misery that is beyond belief. We ordinary people cannot as there is no visible com- often speak about the Celtic tiger and the wel- munity policing presence in the area. 1635 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1636

[Ms Burton.] and go home with bags full of books because they I raised this issue with the Minister in Nov- are academic and studious. What we might cel- ember 2003. Has the Minister had an opportunity ebrate as something wonderful for the child’s to revisit this issue? I spoke about the murder of education could lead to him or her being marked a young man in a pub in Corduff. I spoke about out for harassment and bullying by thugs in an a nurse who was car-jacked outside her own estate. In addition, the family home might be set home in west Dublin. I also spoke of a new estate upon by such thugs. of affordable, social and private housing called The community garda is the Cinderella of the Castlecurragh, where gangs of young kids ter- Garda Sıóchańa. Such gardaı´ can easily be iso- rorising people was making life very difficult for lated, are viewed with a certain condescension by the residents. I then asked, in terms similar to other colleagues, and seen as a ready source of those outlined by Deputy Connaughton, for surplus manpower to be deployed elsewhere serious community policing to become a critical when needed. For a long time people in Dublin aspect of our strategic approach to crime and West have been familiar with this phenomenon. harm reduction. In the course of that Adjourn- If anything happens on the Border, our comment debate, the Minister stated: munity gardaı´ vanish to attend such events. Now we have it. The Deputy is talking about Experience in other countries has more than gardaı´ on the beat. However, we are dealing amply demonstrated the importance of keeping with armed and homicidal gangs. The answer is a community or neighbourhood policing service not to put more gardaı´ wandering around separate from the routine of ordinary policing. estates in the Deputy’s constituency. It is While an arrest may well be a sign of success in deluding the people. The Garda is doing a good the mainstream Garda service, in community job. It is doing its level best to combat all incid- policing it may be seen as an admission of failure ences of crime. because the role of community gardaı´ is to deter offenders and thus prevent offences from being That debate took place on 4 November 2003. committed in the first place. Therefore, a low Because of the campaign I have waged in Dublin arrest rate by community gardaı´ may not be West, I am glad when the Minister responded to reckoned to be a sign of success within Garda me about two months ago to state he had management systems as organised by the Depart- assigned 20 new recruits from Templemore to the ment of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Dublin West area because of the problems enco- The community policing service is the key to untered there. I commend gardaı´ in Dublin West, crime prevention and potentially a powerful tool including the newly qualified recruits from Tem- in containing anti-social behaviour. What is plemore, some of whom are probably terrified needed is more effective training, longer assign- walking around some local authority estates in ments to the task — as set out in the Patten pairs. However, where they are visible, the com- report — and a greater recognition of the import- munity response has to been to feel more secure, ance of community policing. In addition, there even if only momentarily. Will the Minister give should be greater recognition, for promotion pur- a commitment that such patrols will remain for at poses, of those community gardaı´ involved at the least three years, as recommended in the Patten coalface. All these elements are essential if the report as it related to Northern Ireland? That is community policing service is to get the recognit- what is essential. ion it deserves. Evidence in other jurisdictions What is the point of having money in Celtic shows that putting gardaı´ back into the com- tiger Ireland if a young person buys a new car munity is the only serious way of tackling the epi- which is destroyed by thugs? What is the point of demic of anti-social behaviour and related crime. a young person starting a home and family if he A handbook is required on community or she has no peace of mind? What is the point policing. The law relating to anti-social behaviour of an elderly person living in an area if he or she and the remedies available to its victims are com- is afraid to answer the door at night because plex and varied. There is an urgent need to bring thugs invade the front garden to sit, drink and together the legal processes open to the police perform various unspeakable actions? When and the public in the form of a handbook which someone telephones the Garda Sıóchańa, there is could serve both as a guide for the Garda Sıóch- no response. Neither can he or she obtain infor- ańa and an information base for citizens. mation on the response times for this type of A reduction in response times and greater use criminality which is destroying the quality of of foot patrols would amount to an evident man- people’s lives. agement strategy which would encourage people, Since that Adjournment debate, the Minister many of whom consider reporting minor offences has had 18 months in which to come to terms with to be a waste of time, to relate more effectively the fears stalking our society. The problems stem- to gardaı´. It would also enable gardaı´ to improve ming from anti-social behaviour are particularly their often inadequate knowledge of, and intelli- acute for those who live alone, lone female gence on, areas for which they are responsible. parents and their teenage daughters, the elderly, Young people are commonly robbed of their non-nationals and anyone considered by thugs to mobile phones by little thuggish yobbos wearing be different. The latter category could include hoodies. It is a traumatic experience for young ambitious children who are successful at school people and terrifying for their parents because if 1637 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1638 such thugs were confronted, who knows what Since I became involved in politics in 2002, I serious physical injury might be inflicted on their speak to local gardaı´ every two weeks or so, more teenage victims? During the Minister’s time in than I did three or four years ago. If a garda office we have seen murder cases in which teena- trainee enters Templemore at the age of 23, 24 or gers were killed for their mobile phones. That is 25, he or she will have been out in the world, and how bad the situation has become. The Minister will perhaps have gone to college or had a job. must accept some responsibility for what has Such people have a different outlook to other been happening. trainees and theirs is the proper outlook because During the past year I sent a young member of they know what goes on outside and have some my own family to the Garda Sıóchańa but they common sense. Some of the trainees who go to did not get a response. The Minister’s prede- Templemore direct from second level education cessor talked about zero tolerance but I am talk- are inclined to throw the book at people, to ing about zero response. How can teenagers build imagine they are in charge, and superior to a relationship with the Garda Sıóchańa if when others. That is a wrong way to behave. they report a mugging or robbery, they receive A garda must find out what is happening in the no response? This is dysfunctional management community. A garda who has been out on the of policing by the Minister. streets and has been around can find out more by Garda performance criteria are skewed to chatting to people, rather than throwing the book encourage a focus on medium gravity crimes, at them, catching them going too fast through 30 including burglary and car theft — offences which mph zones or targeting a person who has perhaps yield primary and secondary clear-ups. The had more than one pint. I feel strongly about that. Garda practice of “cuffing and stuffing”, the non- Garda training must be reconsidered in terms of recording of certain calls for service and the over- what they might have been engaged in before recording of certain offences is largely driven by entering Templemore. assessment criteria. A change of criteria is needed Fine Gael members were the founders of the to include a focus on community offences which State and of the Irish police force. I am proud to might be seen as less serious but which lead to be in the party which founded a force which pro- the broken windows phenomenon and estates tects people. I am in favour of community becoming no-go areas for the Garda Sıóchańa policing in villages, parishes, towns and cities, and go-go areas for paramilitaries. Without com- because people have an important role in that munity policing, one’s friendly neighbourhood area. When I think of community policing, paramilitary is likely to offer to fill the gap. however, I recall the time when councillors were People like me are left at public meetings saying on health boards. I do not want to see mere talk- vigilantism is no answer, yet people’s rage is so ing shops developing. great that they will look for any remedy which The Lord Mayor of Dublin issued a report on appears to dispel some of the horror they crime and policing on 7 February last. He said: experience. People want to see gardaı´ on the beat. They I hope the Minister has learned a little more want to hear their feet on the streets, not their about the crisis confronting so many working- sirens as they speed past in cars with flashing class communities and the abject failure of the lights. They want more judges in district courts Government to make a serious response. so that all low level crime, disorder and anti- social cases will be speedily dealt with. They Mr. Kehoe: I am delighted with the oppor- want local authorities, the gardaı´, the courts tunity to speak on this Bill. I hope when it is and health and educational services to work implemented there will be some major changes together to target and reduce unacceptable within the Garda Sıóchańa. They are badly behaviour like public drinking, drug-taking, needed. The manner in which the Garda protects late-night noise and other intimidating anti- the people is close to my heart. social behaviour that affects so many communi- Fine Gael welcomes the Bill and the prospect ties in the city. of community policing. Our society has changed dramatically in recent years. Crimes that were The Lord Mayor went on to say that the report crimes five or ten years ago remain crimes but we was based on a number of submissions and that are now seeing certain types of anti-social behav- 40 focus groups had strongly urged that reducing iour. Deputy Burton and another Labour Party crime, disorder or anti-social behaviour could not Member drew attention this morning to the be the sole responsibility of the gardaı´ and the hooded youngsters of whom people are courts. That is where community policing can frightened. work. The primary duty of gardaı´ is to protect people. When the Minister for Justice, Equality and Like all in public life, the parish priest and poli- Law Reform received the report from the Lord ticians, gardaı´ have a job to do, but some gardaı´ Mayor he said: — a very small number — who go through the I am glad to be here to receive the com- Templemore training system, who get through mission’s report. The Lord Mayor is to be con- interviews and pass their exams, seem to forget gratulated on his initiative in establishing the their primary duty of protection, especially when commission on crime and policing and the they are assigned to Garda stations. wide-ranging consultation it undertook with 1639 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1640

[Mr. Kehoe.] population of Ferns, Kiltealy and many other vil- agencies — and most importantly, the residents lages dotted around County Wexford and of this city — must be commended. I am struck throughout the country has increased by the fact that the commission was set up only dramatically but the number of gardaı´ has in September and completed its report on a decreased. wide range of topics in February. Bunclody is a perfect example. It is now a The Minister went on to say: medium-sized town but does not have a full-time Garda station. If there is an emergency in the I will carefully study the recommendations area, gardaı´ must travel almost 20 miles from contained in the report. Already, a number of Gorey. If, God forbid, thieves were to enter a them, particularly those relating to the need for house in Bunclody tonight, shoot the occupants more gardaı´ on the beat, have struck a chord and disappear with their belongings, how long with me and indeed echo my own priorities for would it take gardaı´ to get to the scene from additional gardaı´ who will be coming out of Gorey? This is what is happening across the coun- Templemore over the next three years. try because criminals are aware of the situation. When I stood for election in 2002, those extra Whether thieves come from Dublin, Cork, 2,000 gardaı´ were promised. In 2005, we still have Limerick, Wexford or County Mayo, they know not seen them. What people want is just as the it will take over half an hour for gardaı´ to arrive Minister stated — more gardaı´ on the streets. at the scene. They have it so well planned that People feel safer if they see a man in a Garda they get in, take what they want and get away. uniform perhaps walking through an estate or a The same could and has happened in the middle busy shopping centre or whatever it may be. If of the day. A year or two ago a bank robbery community policing is to be successfully intro- took place in Bunclody but by the time gardaı´ got duced, there must be more gardaı´ on the streets. to the scene the thieves were gone with the I meet my local Garda superintendent regu- money. There was nothing the gardaı´ could do. larly to discuss crime levels, anti-social behaviour, Those involved in the Community Alert and or perhaps under-age drinking, or drug abuse, or Neighbourhood Watch schemes must be com- whatever is going on in my home town, Enniscor- mended but it is not their job to keep an eye on thy. The superintendent points out that many what is happening; that is what gardaı´ are paid to gardaı´ are regularly tied up in different cases, per- do. However, they do not have the resources or haps following those involved in drugs or drug the numbers to do so. My parish, Bree, has a trafficking, or a major crime gang. Gardaı´ follow strong Community Alert group. Its members so many crime investigations that they are totally received no grant assistance to erect signs but had tied up. They have not got sufficient numbers in to go around and collect money from people the Garda station or on the rosters to walk the residing in the parish. Only a small number are streets. interested in such organisations, often older When I spoke to the newly appointed superin- people. When they become too old or ill to take tendent in Enniscorthy, Peter Finn, he said he part, there will be nobody to replace them. wanted to see gardaı´ walking the streets. He has A press release from the Minister of State at done this and I have seen an improvement, on the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy which people have commented to me. If they see Browne, a Wexford Deputy, stated it was a garda walking the street a few times each week, scandalous gardaı´ were not involved in local they feel safer. At first they asked if there was GAA clubs and did not live in the parishes they something wrong when they saw a garda on the policed. I agree. However, I would not like to see street because we do not have the number it included on the Garda application form that a required to have gardaı´ walking the streets and person applying should become a member of the talking to people to hear what is going on. local GAA club and involved in training soccer The Community Alert scheme was initiated to teams, or, in the case of a female applicant, a cope with rural crime and robberies on a daily member of the ICA. That happened 20 years ago. basis. I come from a rural area in County In fairness, gardaı´ must be able to get away from Wexford where not a week goes by without hear- their work. We must face reality. Members of the ing of someone’s house being robbed or broken force are not as actively involved in community into and not a weekend goes by without reading organisations as they once were but that is their about a crime in the local or national newspapers. business. They have their job to do. If they want If I read any national newspaper today, I am sure to become involved in the local GAA club, that I will read a story about some rural community is up to them; they should not have to become where someone was robbed or tied up. The involved. reason for this is that the system of rural policing The complaint I hear about gardaı´ is that has fallen apart. people have to wait for half an hour or an hour Most of the Garda stations in the Enniscorthy for them to turn up. People also complain that area, for example, are manned for only two or they do not see gardaı´ walking the street. These three hours a day. I raised this matter in a complaints all boil down to garda resources. The parliamentary question in which I asked about story of what happened in Gorey and Courtown the number of gardaı´ in rural stations. The Mini- Garda stations illustrates this. Both had cars that ster has no plans to increase their number. The were involved in accidents and written off. In the 1641 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1642 case of Courtown, it took over two and a half port, Castlebar or Ballina, for example, they must months for the car to be replaced while in Gorey live in those towns and cannot expect to be able it took almost three months. The red tape to travel from Galway and elsewhere. involved in obtaining a new car or having one Previously, small Garda stations were open in replaced is unacceptable. every town and village. The population was We know gardaı´ have a tough job. Many of smaller and there was less crime but rural Garda them should be commended. We see them on stations are being closed and gardaı´ are consoli- duty at weekends and they often take their life in dated in cities and towns leaving rural areas their hands. Nobody knows when a knife will be unpoliced. That is wrong and this policy should pulled outside a nightclub or in a street brawl. be re-examined. I am not saying every rural Earlier somebody said the only time they ever Garda station should be reopened but a reason- saw gardaı´ was when the rows were over. If 30 or able compromise should be reached. For 40 fellows are hammering each other on the example, my area covers Louisburgh to Westport, street, full to their eyes with drugs and drink, it is a distance of 13 miles. There used to be Garda difficult for two, three or four gardaı´ to break stations in Westport, Murrisk and Louisburgh but them up. If I was a garda, I would not even try. I the one in Murrisk has been closed. That is fine recall being outside a nightclub as a fight took because it is only four miles from Westport. place and the bouncers had to get involved to However, the population in these towns and vil- help the gardaı´ carry out their duty. That is lages has increased and more people are moving totally unsatisfactory. into rural areas. I cannot stress enough the importance of tack- The town planners are pushing more people ling anti-social behaviour. It is a major issue in into housing estates, resulting in increased levels every city, town, village and parish and the situa- of anti-social behaviour. Every week at my clinic, tion will be out of control if something is not done people are looking for transfers from local auth- to address it quickly. I do not know if community ority housing not because they do not like their policing will solve the problems caused by anti- houses or the area but because they cannot live social behaviour but it must be tackled head on. there because of the activities of young people Increased Garda numbers would help. When the who are involved in anti-social behaviour and new recruits have been trained and deployed on whose parents do not control them. That is a our streets, I hope they do not become tied up major problem we must examine, as a society. in various investigations because a visible Garda This cannot continue. Young people are on the presence is extremely important. streets at all hours and their parents do not control them. The time has come to make parents Mr. Ring: I am glad to have the opportunity responsible for young children who are creating to contribute to the debate. I congratulate on his havoc in every town and village. appointment, the new Garda Commissioner, Noel I welcome the establishment of the Garda Conroy, who is originally from County Mayo. ombudsman commission and policing commit- Last Saturday night he was honoured in his native tees. I have always said politicians should not county when he was selected Erris Person of the investigate politicians and gardaı´ should not Year. It was my first opportunity to meet him. I investigate gardaı´. I hope the commission will saw him in action in the Oireachtas and on tele- work and that there will be a little independence vision in regard to an operational matter and I in the system. In the past, the investigation of was impressed by his performance. He acquitted complaints against gardaı´ by gardaı´ has not himself well. He presents a good image of the worked. The ombudsman will be given the power Garda. Gardaı´ in the past were more interested and resources to investigate complaints. That is in the night life than in doing their jobs. I wish welcome. Equally, however, people who make Noel Conroy well in a difficult appointment at a dishonest complaints should pay a serious price difficult time for the Garda. because they waste valuable resources and time. On community policing, I am disappointed the If a complaint is made, sometimes it cannot be legislation does not include a provision to make fully investigated and finalised and there may be it compulsory on new recruits to the Garda to a doubt. That is fine but the issue of people mak- reside in the area to which they are assigned. That ing dishonest complaints against gardaı´, usually would be a step in the right direction and it must when they are facing a prosecution, must be happen. I accept the Minister may not be able to examined. do anything where recent recruits are concerned I hope community policing will work. I was a but future recruits should have to live where they member of Westport Urban District Council for are assigned. In the past gardaı´ lived in the areas more than 20 years and the one complaint we in which they worked. They gathered information received every week related to the lack of gardaı´ locally and they knew what was going on. Part of on the street. Another problem we had was the the problem nowadays is that people in many regular transfer of superintendents in and out of towns and villages do not know their local gardaı´. the town. We had three or four superintendents This issue should be examined. Perhaps the Mini- in a three year period. That was neither good for ster might consider making it part of the con- policing nor the morale of the local force. ditions for new recruits when they sign on the However, that has been addressed and the cur- dotted line so that if they are assigned to West- rent superintendent has been in the town for a 1643 Garda Sıóchańa Bill 2004: 20 April 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1644

[Mr. Ring.] popular to say this since there is a major lobby good while. The one job he did well was to put group. I know I will have my critics on licensed policemen on the street day and night. One can premises where this might not go down too well walk through Westport at any time and a Garda but we must be honest that the abuse of alcohol presence is visible. This presence has addressed is the single greatest challenge we face. late night problems in the town. The people were We have dealt with the smoking ban and must right. That is what they wanted, that is what they now deal with the abuse of alcohol. We must got and it has worked. I hope that will happen in address it as a society and should not be afraid to every town and village. do so since it is creating much of the crime, viol- I recently spoke to a garda based in a city who ence and anti-social behaviour experienced. The said he was dealing with drug addicts all the time time has come for the Government to take this but the only protection he received was an anti- issue on, just as it did with the smoking ban. Like hepatitis C injection. These times are different; smoking in pubs and other public places, we must we are dealing with different people. The neces- make it unacceptable to abuse drink. Whether we sary resources should be given to the Garda. It is like it, we must also tackle off-licences regarding time we considered the uniform, in particular to their opening hours and how drink is sold. Pubs ensure gardaı´ have the right headgear. There are may have lost business since the smoking ban but now people with no respect for life or human if they have, consumption has not decreased. This beings who do not mind injuring anyone. It is is certainly affecting matters. Drink is being con- time we examined the equipment gardaı´ use, sumed but where it is being drunk is another especially regarding drug addicts, to ensure they matter. We must examine this matter and if we are protected by gloves or whatever else they deal with it, we will tackle a great deal of crime. need. I agree with the community policing end of the I learned when I travelled to County Meath Minister’s Bill and hope it works. It is important during the recent by-election campaign that to have the community involved to ensure local everyone in the country had a jeep and that they people know what is going on, particularly in the were being stolen. Fellows are driving around in protection of the most vulnerable elderly people. high powered jeeps and cars. The term used for I remember that at one time in rural Ireland we them is “joy-riders” but they do not give much had people coming in, robbing the elderly and joy to a family when they kill someone in an acci- driving out in the middle of the night. I remember dent on the road. That is not a great joy and the people going to bed in daylight and not getting name should not be used by the media. They are up again until dawn because they were afraid to not joy-riders but thugs. They steal high powered let anyone into their homes. We must never allow vehicles, drive them through the streets of cities that to happen again. That is why it is important and towns and kill people with them. we give the Garda the necessary resources and Being a garda is becoming an ever more diffi- manpower. The Minister must honour the com- cult job. Like politics, it is not easy to satisfy mitment he gave regarding 2,000 extra gardaı´ who everyone. At the same time, however, we depend must be put on the beat to do their job, namely, on them. When there is a problem and we call protect the general public and taxpayers. them, we expect them to be there. When a prob- That is essentially all I have to say. I hope the lem arises in the shape of serious or petty crime, Bill works, since it is important for us all that we we depend on them. We must give them the have a good, honest police force and that people necessary resources and manpower. That is what feel, when they make a complaint, that it is des- was done in New York where they started dealing tined to be listened to by someone independent with anti-social behaviour and petty crime. They who will adjudicate on it. We have excellent also had to deal with serious crime. They knew gardaı´ but there is no point in our pretending that that the police force and Government were there are not members in the force who should serious about tackling crime and that where there not be in it. If they create a problem, they should was a problem, it would be dealt with from the be removed. If they are not doing their job or bottom. It is important we send that message in breaking the law, they should be removed. this country. We want the best police force in the world, the best equipped and the most honest. Mr. McEntee: I would like to speak on crime We want the people to be protected as quickly regarding my experiences during my successful as possible. by-election campaign. It amazed me, living in a The Minister is talking about opening cafe´s. I nice, quiet area at one end of the county, when I know that it is a different Bill and that there will moved on to built-up areas such as Dunshaughlin, be another agenda and another day’s debate on Ratoath, Ashbourne and even Navan to learn the drink culture in this country but the most that the crime rates in those areas were far higher serious problem facing the State is the abuse of than in my own. We can always blame young drink and drugs. I put drink first and drugs people for crime but I have been involved in second. The single biggest mistake we ever made sports activity for 23 years and everywhere one is was extending the licensing laws. It has created a involved in sport, crime is not even an issue. major problem in the country. I know it is not People have something to do, whether they ware 1645 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1646 senior or junior footballers, lady footballers or criminals who make massive sums from them. At handballers. Anywhere one has sports facilities, Christmas or any other time gardaı´ are on the there is no crime. The one thing that really beat, some might not like it. annoyed me during my campaign was that in all those built-up areas no one saw fit, if one had 20 Debate adjourned. houses or 100 children, to provide enough sports facilities for young people. Private Members’ Business. It is out of boredom and perhaps a lack of policing that young people get involved in crime. ———— I always find that, no matter at what age, a young fellow will go through a rough patch, like we did ourselves somewhere between the ages of 18 and Social and Affordable Housing: Motion 21 years. One can be led astray but it is very easy (Resumed). to get back if something is put in front of one The following motion was moved by Deputy instead of gangs or drugs. There will always be O’Dowd on Tuesday, 19 April 2005: 5% or 10% of people who do not want to comply with any rules or regulations. They are the people That Da´il E´ ireann: who must ultimately be targeted — the likes of noting, the drug dealers and those who simply do not want to be part of society. — the average house price in Ireland now To my amazement, drug dealers and others stands at \255,776, an increase of involved in crime are getting away too lightly. \18,000 in one year; Their sentences are too short. The excuse that we — the price of an average house has do not have the prisons to hold them is not good increased from an average of \75,000 enough. It is very easy to rob a bank or put a gun in 1996; to someone’s head. The next thing one sees is that they receive a four year suspended sentence. — 42,500 people aged over 30 now live They must be put away. A gun is a good thing in with their parents according to Census its own right and I blame the person who handles 2002; it for the crime. It is up to the Government and us — only 315 affordable housing units have in opposition, to promote more sports and other been acquired under Part V of the facilities for young people that will take them Development Act 2000; away from crime. I am an admirer of the Minister and the manner in which he sometimes stands — over 100,000 individuals are on local alone in saying such things but it must be authority housing waiting lists; implemented. One must have jails to put people — there are 5,581 homeless people in away, not for three or four months in order that Ireland living in 3,773 households; and they take a winter break; they must be put away for years. — the significant policy change that occurred with the transfer of responsi- Mr. Costello: They are closing them down. bility of the housing needs of those on the rent supplement from health auth- Mr. McEntee: They must find one big enough orities to local authorities; somewhere, reopening one, if necessary. Those bearing in mind the response of the Govern- who are leading our young people astray must be ment to this escalating crisis has been the: put away. Having been involved in this area and been in — abolition of first-time buyer’s grant; a pub, I have seen how young people can enjoy a — increasing of VAT rates on houses; few drinks. It is when drugs come into play later in the night that they cannot be — imposition of development levies; 7 o’clock handled. That is one objection I have noting that moves in the recent budget on to the new proposal for nightclubs to stamp duty have not been enough to move open for an extra hour late at night. It would be first-time buyers out of the stamp duty net, better having people go out at 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. calls on the Government to: rather than having them stay out until 3 a.m. or 4 a.m. and then supposedly be able to get up and — implement a package of proposals to work. They are not able to do so and go back to help first-time buyers including an drinking, at which stage they get involved with SSIA-type deposit savings scheme; drugs and so on. — arrange for a Da´il debate on changes to As a new Deputy, I firmly believe we do not the rent supplement; put enough resources into supporting the young who are all good people. It is very easy to knock — meet its NDP targets and election them since they do not come out to vote but they promises on social and affordable hous- need help. They must be protected from the ing; and 1647 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1648

— convene a crisis meeting of the social — developing and implementing an inte- partners to address the issue; and grated strategy on homelessness, effective programmes for Traveller condemns the Government for its failure to accommodation and an expanded role provide young people with decent, afford- for the voluntary and co-operative able housing. housing sector; and Debate resumed on amendment No. 1: supports the Government in its further ´ actions, which will be informed by the recent To delete all words after “Daíl Eireann” and comprehensive NESC analysis of housing, to substitute the following: ensure continued good housing supply, “acknowledges the achievements of the increase the quality and affordability of Government in, housing and respond to the needs of low income households and those with special — increasing housing supply as the key needs through a broad range of targeted response to the broad range of hous- initiatives.” ing needs and demands; —(Minister of State at the Department of the — ensuring that over 500,000 houses, Environment, Heritage and Local equivalent to one third of Ireland’s Government, Mr. N. Ahern). total housing stock, have been com- Mr. O’Connor: I wish to share time with pleted in the past ten years; Deputies Nolan, Curran and Fiona O’Malley. — facilitating the tenth successive year of record housing completions Acting Chairman (Mr. Stanton): Is that through the addition of 77,000 new agreed? Agreed. houses in 2004 and establishing Ireland in the lead position within the Mr. O’Connor: I am all alone on the Fianna EU in the provision of new houses; Faíl backbenches, but I will not panic. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, to the — strengthening and extending social House. I hope he will not be offended if I applaud and affordable housing programmes, the work he is doing in the housing area. I am for which \2 billion is available in always happy to support his work in that area and 2005; in his other portfolio, in which he has responsibility for the drugs strategy and community — bringing forward five-year housing affairs. action plans by local authorities for I listened with interest earlier to the fair com- the period 2004 to 2008 to co- ments of the new Fine Gael Member for Meath, ordinate, accelerate and bring greater Deputy McEntee, during the debate on the integration to action on housing at Garda Sıóchańa Bill. I was glad to hear him prais- local level, with particular reference ing the work of the Minister for Justice, Equality to social and affordable housing and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, as I have measures; done on many occasions. I compliment Deputy — prioritising and advancing the special McEntee on his contribution. Perhaps Fine Gael initiative on housing and accommo- is changing by giving an opportunity to people dation under Sustaining Progress who will express honest and fair opinions. which will deliver more than 10,000 I compliment Deputy O’Dowd on introducing affordable houses through the afford- the motion before the House. I am always happy able housing initiative and Part V of to speak on Private Members’ business because it the Planning and Development Acts is important that we should discuss the issues of 2000-2004; — ensuring through the the day. I do not doubt that the issue of housing, housing forum an effective engage- for which the Minister of State, Deputy Noel ment with the social partners; Ahern, is responsible, is among the issues of the day. I am happy to support the Minister of State, — enhancing tax allowances to assist who has visited Tallaght and other parts of the first-time buyers; Dublin South-West constituency on a number of — improving the operation of the private occasions. I hope he will visit the constituency on rented sector through the introduc- many further occasions to bring much more good tion of new legislation and the estab- news to the area during the 800 days which lishment of the Private Rented Ten- remain before the next general election. ancies Board; It is important to point out that Dublin South- West has a relatively young population. The con- — introducing the rental accommo- stituency includes many places other than dation scheme to provide improved Tallaght, which is the third largest population and more secure arrangements for centre in the country, such as Firhouse, SWA rent supplement recipients with Templeogue, Greenhills and Brittas. Many young long-term housing needs; people come to my constituency clinics every 1649 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1650 week to discuss housing issues. While some of tinue to engage in anti-social behaviour that it is them are seeking improved housing provision, not acceptable. Not only do we have to deal with many others speak about the issues raised in the such behaviour in local authority housing estates, Government’s amendment to this motion. I refer but, as I have often said to the Minister, we also to matters such as rent subsidy, homelessness and have to deal with it in private estates. It is right problems of anti-social behaviour. In the short that those who are encountering problems caused time available, I intend to discuss some of those by young people or other anti-social elements in issues. their estates should have the protection of the law The Minister of State has my full support as he and all the agencies and should be entitled to continues to develop housing programmes in co- redress. operation with the various local authorities. I do not like to make a distinction between South Dublin County Council has taken the Mini- private and local authority estates, but that dis- ster of State’s advice in recent years by imple- tinction exists. People in such estates often say menting a rolling programme that covers many they wish regulations were in place to ensure the years. It is using public money in a good way to force of law is brought to bear on those involved develop its housing stock. Rather than sitting by in such behaviour in their estates, just as it is in the telephone as they used to do, local authority local authority estates. I hope the Minister of officials now know where they are going with the State will continue to pay attention to these house-building programme. The Government issues. should continue to support the programmes of There have been improvements in the rent sub- social and, in particular, affordable housing. The sidy scheme, but we face further challenges in Minister of State should understand how that regard. I ask the Minister of State to con- important such programmes are to young people tinue to give such issues as much attention as in places like my constituency. I am sure other possible. I am aware the matter falls within the Deputies will refer to other areas and I have no remit of the Minister for Social and Family problem in supporting them. Affairs. During a debate on housing, it is relevant We should redouble our efforts to tackle the to point out that State funding should not be problem of homelessness. I am aware that the allowed simply to be put into the black hole that problem is found in other jurisdictions, but it is is landlords’ bank accounts. We should ensure not good enough that people are homeless in this that people have proper housing. If they cannot day and age. There is no homeless unit in the afford to purchase private housing, which is a Tallaght area. The Minister of State is aware that clear issue that we have identified, they should be I often make the point that homelessness is some- given as much assistance as possible. There must thing of an underground problem. One sees be some way of ensuring that we do not merely people sleeping rough in parks and under the can- hand out rent subsidies every single week in opy in the priory. It is important that we should respect of property that does not accrue to ten- understand the challenges we face in this regard. ants or to the State. Perhaps we should adopt a I am sure the Minister of State will not mind me more radical approach to this aspect of the saying that we need to support such people, not problem. only through the housing schemes but also I wish the Minister of State, Deputy Noel through the involvement of other agencies. It is Ahern, well. He has my full support in this area important that we should do that. of his remit and with the other work in which he I would like to speak about rent subsidy and is engaged. I hope he understands the issues I other related initiatives taken by the Minister of have raised are of concern to communities in State, such as the establishment of the Private Dublin South-West and elsewhere. I look forward Residential Tenancies Board and the measures to expressing my support for him at the end of taken as part of the fight against anti-social this debate. behaviour. I have told the Minister at other forums that it is important that Members should Mr. Nolan: I welcome the opportunity to speak support such initiatives. Deputies speak about the on this motion. No Administration foresaw the issues of the day in their constituencies, but I am boom that started in the housing and construction sure, like me, they often hear people complaining sectors in the early 1990s. It took some time for about anti-social behaviour. I will not name areas us to realise the effects that the success of the because I do not want the people to think I am economy would have on the construction indus- focussing on their localities. try. It also took time for construction companies The problems associated with anti-social to meet the huge increase in the demand for resi- behaviour, which is found throughout the coun- dential units, such as apartments and houses. It try, are the responsibility of the Minister for took a few years for the sector to invest the time, Justice, Equality and Law Reform as well as the energy and resources needed to deal with the Minister of State with responsibility for housing. increased demand. Less than 30,000 housing units It is important that the Minister of State, Deputy were being built per year some years ago, but that Noel Ahern, understands that he has the support number had increased to 78,000 by 2004. It seems of the House in continuing to deal with these that a similar number of units will be constructed problems. He has made some excellent efforts in in 2005 and there is no sign of a significant recent years. He has reminded those who con- reduction by 2007-08. 1651 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1652

[Mr. Nolan.] disrepair. The council has now put eight units in A number of issues need to be addressed by place and provided a caretaker. It is a credit to some of the agencies involved in the construction the local authority, the caretaker and the families industry. I refer not only to building contractors who are taking pride in the fact that they have and developers, but also to local authorities, good houses that are well heated and they look which are responsible for planning. We seem, at after them. The provision of a caretaker was a last, to be starting to organise planning well into very good move. the future. The Minister of State said last night I commend the Minister of State and wish him that there is now enough zoned land to construct continued success. With the provision of ongoing 350,000 houses over the next five years. However, resources by the Government, we will continue we cannot rest on our laurels. Local authorities to see progress made in the area. must continue to rezone and identify suitable building land. Mr. F. McGrath: The Minister of State has not The Minister of State mentioned rented accom- delivered. There are thousands of people on the modation in his address last night. The Govern- waiting lists. ment has tried to put in place a system to control this area. It announced an initiative in July 2004 Mr. Curran: I welcome the opportunity to where local authorities will progressively assume speak in this debate. responsibility for accommodating rent supplement recipients. Currently the old health Mr. Durkan: The Deputy should not speak boards adjudicate on applications for rent sup- too soon. plement. They must contact the housing section of the local authority to ensure the person apply- Mr. Curran: Housing is a topic worthy of ing is a genuine applicant and this is causing debate and I thank Fine Gael for tabling the delays. It is only right that the Government gives motion, although I do not support the sentiments this portfolio to the housing section of the local in it. authority. The country has seen radical change in recent The local authorities will administer the rented years. When I left school, many students in my accommodation scheme, will provide an year had to emigrate but that is no longer the additional source of good quality rented accom- case. People are staying and we are experiencing modation for eligible people and offer developers inward migration. Our population is rising. the chance to provide that quality accommo- Family units are changing significantly and those dation by becoming involved with joint ventures. issues are changing the demand for housing The local authority housing sections will have a whether we like it or not. major input into where the schemes will be pro- The Fine Gael motion refers to the abolition of vided. This use of public private partnerships is the first-time buyer’s grant, the increase in VAT welcome. rates on houses and the imposition of develop- The Government has set a target of September ment levies. It implies that if the Government had 2008 to complete implementation of the new not done these things, houses would not be so arrangements in all local authorities and such a expensive. That is a load of rubbish. House prices time scale is workable. Local authorities will take have nothing to do with the cost of the provision on their new responsibilities in batches over the of housing, they are a question of supply and next two years with the transfer of rent sup- demand. That is why gazumping is so relevant. It plement recipients with long-term housing needs is as a result of what the Government is trying to to be completed by the end of this four year do that demand is so high that our output is—— period. This year the Government has provided Mr. Healy: There are 70,000 families on local \19 million to support the cost of the new struc- authority housing lists. Is that demand? ture and this will be increased incrementally as we move forward. This funding is in addition to Mr. F. McGrath: PD economics. the money provided under the local authority social housing programme and was redirected Mr. Curran: It is precisely because demand is from the Department of Social and Family so high that house prices are high, because supply Affairs supplementary welfare allowance scheme. has not equalled demand. It transfers the funding from one Department to another. Mr. Durkan: Demand remains high because The Minister of State should look at Traveller people do not have houses because the prices are accommodation, where much good work has so high. been done. Significant resources are being put into the provision of state of the art, hard site Mr. Curran: In recent years because of policies accommodation to cater for Traveller families adopted by the Government, supply has who do not wish to be included on the housing increased significantly. lists or in housing schemes in particular urban areas. In Carlow, the local authority has success- Mr. Healy: Government policy was to build fully regenerated an area that had been used by 5,000 local authority houses while 70,000 families Traveller families but had fallen into disuse and are on the waiting lists. 1653 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1654

Mr. Curran: That is a fact. I would like an hon- Mr. Curran: ——but I may not get an oppor- est, open and frank debate about that but Oppo- tunity to do so. If the Members opposite wait, I sition Members do not want to look at the issues. will get to it in a moment. There was also reference in the motion to the number of affordable Mr. Durkan: We will be honest and frank. houses delivered to date. We should be honest about this issue. Had the Members opposite Mr. Curran: The real issue is not VAT rates wanted a proper debate, that was not the way to but the Government effort to produce a supply put forward the motion. When Part V of the Plan- that equals demand. ning and Development Act came into force, everybody knew there was a lead-in time. Plan- Mr. Morgan: It is a damn poor effort. ning permissions first had to be granted under the system and then the projects physically delivered. Mr. Curran: We are doing that at record levels. A few weeks ago representatives from the We built 77,000 houses last year, far in excess of Department of the Environment, Heritage and anywhere else in Europe, because the economy Local Government appeared before the Commit- of this country has radically changed. I am from tee of Public Accounts and gave their projections, the era when my classmates had to emigrate but and there is significant growth in those figures. It we have changed. We have the opportunity in this is easy to be critical and say the Government has country for people to stay at home. not delivered but it is delivering. It is easy to get political mileage—— Mr. Durkan: If we applied that argument across the board, there would be no hospitals or Mr. F. McGrath: Eight years. schools. Mr. Curran: It is not eight years since the Plan- Mr. Curran: That is the challenge. That is not ning and Development Act. The number of the issue the Opposition is prepared to debate. houses that will be delivered this year under Part That is the reality. This Government saw the V will be significantly more than last year. The challenge and addressed it. projections from South Dublin County Council are that 400 or 500 houses will be built under Part Mr. F. McGrath: They walked off the pitch. V this year alone. We are making progress—— Mr. Curran: The reality is that output in terms Mr. Durkan: Some people might not describe of delivering houses to meet the demand is far it that way. in excess—— Mr. Curran: ——but the motion does not Mr. F. McGrath: To whom are they going? It recognise that. I agree with one aspect of the is the wealthy and the elite who get the houses. motion but Fine Gael was not the first party to Mr. Curran: It is not the wealthy. raise it. It is not the first time it has been debated in the House. Mr. Healy: What about the local authority lists? Mr. Durkan: The Deputy is right about that.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. Mr. Curran: Deputy Durkan does not even know what I am about to say, yet he is telling me Mr. Curran: It is difficult to speak, a Leas- I am right. He jumped in without even knowing Cheann Comhairle. what I was going to say.

Mr. F. McGrath: In any other country in the Mr. Durkan: Whatever the Deputy says, it will European Union the Minister would be sacked. be the only aspect about which he will be right.

Mr. Curran: I pointed out a few facts. I was Mr. Curran: If I am right about it, I will thank trying to have an honest debate but I could antici- Fine Gael for supporting an issue I first raised in pate the reply before I said a word about the this House. motion. Mr. Durkan: Tell us about it. Mr. Durkan: If the Deputy invites comment, he will get it. Mr. Curran: It concerns the fact that the affordable housing scheme is becoming more popular Mr. Curran: There is an aspect to the motion but one of the problems in delivering the scheme tabled by Fine Gael that I had intended to agree is that many of the people who qualify to partici- with—— pate are experiencing difficulties coming up with the deposits. The State should examine the possi- Mr. O’Dowd: Asking for the Government to bility of establishing a savings scheme for first- resign forthwith. time buyers or specifically for those who might 1655 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1656

[Mr. Curran.] vide good quality, affordable housing through a qualify for affordable housing. It is an issue raised comprehensive policy to meet the growing hous- in my constituency office and we should examine ing demands over the period 2002 to 2007. What it because many people who work and pay rent does that mean? We know the problem. The in one fashion or another find it difficult to come average house price is now \255,000, and up with deposits. While an SSIA-type deposit increased by \18,000 in one year. The average savings scheme is part of the motion, it is some- house price was \75,000 in 1996. thing we should consider. I point out to the The effect the housing issue is having on young Members opposite that this is an issue I raised in people is serious. We know from the last census the House on more than one occasion and it was that 42,500 people over 30 live with their parents. certainly raised at a parliamentary party meeting. I am sure that is not a situation that either the There is merit in the idea and it is the type of parents or the 30 year olds find the most desir- issue I would like discussed. able. We aim to ensure that supply is responsive to the level of demand. We know the demand for Mr. O’Dowd: Will the Deputy support our housing has spiralled and we must encourage motion? more construction. The public does not want to hear that the prob- Mr. Curran: No, I do not support the motion. lem is created by our own success. It wants to know what we have done to meet this demand. Mr. Durkan: Will the Deputy vote on it? In 1997, the number of houses built was 38,000. In 2000, it was 50,000. Last year, it was 77,000 and An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order. consultants have predicted a similar total in 2005. Those are record construction numbers. That Mr. Curran: The Deputies opposite want real refutes the notion that we are doing nothing. debate on the issue but the points they have made in the motion are disingenuous in terms of the Mr. Healy: What about the housing waiting progress that has been made. I will engage with lists? the Deputies in debate but I do not support the motion. Ms F. O’Malley: Regarding our primary objective to ensure that supply is being responded to, Mr. O’Dowd: The Deputy is talking through it is clear our policies are working. As a result of his hat. the work we are doing, house prices have moder- ated somewhat but not enough and the prob- Mr. Curran: The progress made is not being lems remain. recognised. Regarding first-time buyers, we must address the issue of a savings scheme in respect I would like to dwell on two areas of concern. of deposits. There is merit in that idea. That The first is the problem of investment properties. aspect of the motion, which has been raised in the Our policies have delivered homes but the increased number of houses are meant to help House previously, will be raised again and is an \ issue that will be examined. people like the young man in Leitrim on 27,000 a year. I am concerned about a recent ESRI study Ms F. O’Malley: I commend Fine Gael on which estimated that 12% of the 77,000 dwellings tabling this motion. Owning one’s own home is built in 2004 are either holiday homes or are most important to every family and individual. empty. That must be addressed. Recently, RTE held an on-line poll about the cost The second issue I would like to dwell on is the of housing. In the comment section one person State provision of affordable housing. It is contributed the following: obvious that increased supply will temper the price rises and help certain sections of society but \ I’m 23 years of age. I make 27,000 a year they will not help everybody. There are those and I’ve done so for the last two years. I’m sin- whose annual income is nowhere near the \27,000 gle. I don’t have rich parents to back me up. per annum of the individual I spoke of earlier. The mortgage adviser asked me to call back in We spent \144 million on affordable housing in two or three years’ time. He might have better 2000. We spent \266 million last year and while news by then. we must continue with our policies to increase That young man was from Leitrim. That encapsu- housing output, we must also increase the amount lates some of the difficulties facing us and we the State spends on providing housing. The level should listen to what a young person is of social housing being provided is the highest experiencing. ever in our generation but it must be kept going The public will be interested to know what the at that level. It is envisaged that 12,000 more Government has done in this area and I will use affordable homes will be completed by 2007, and the time available to me to set the record straight. they must be completed. It is important that the public recognises that the I wish to refer briefly to a topic raised when Government is doing a great deal in this area. We discussing affordable housing for young people, had stated that if we were elected, we would pro- the so-called first-time buyer’s grant. That is a 1657 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1658 misleading title. When I was a first-time buyer, I those which constitute social housing by a factor did not qualify for the grant as the house I pur- of three to one. Is it right that there is no tax on chased was not new. The notion that the grant second homes, the proliferation of which exacer- was what it said on the tin is ridiculous. Another bates affordability problems, especially for myth which needs to be dispelled is the one which people in parts of rural Ireland, including the contends that we have presided idly over the western seaboard and the south east? Is it right economy while allowing the housing problem get that some people can have two houses without an out of control. Almost 30% of all homes in additional tax liability while others have none? Ireland have been built since 1997. A clear It is wrong that Government policy does strategy has been devised to tackle homelessness. nothing to counteract these developments. Is As long as there is one homeless person, there there not something fundamentally wrong when will be one too many. State policies do nothing to disincentivise the ownership of multiple dwellings while some Mr. O’Dowd: There are 6,000. remain homeless? The activity is incentivised by a significant number of tax reliefs, including mort- Ms F. O’Malley: The issue is not simply one of gage interest tax relief for landlords and the so- an absence of shelter, but involves many com- called targeted supply subsidies such as sections plex factors. 23 and 50 tax relief. Will the Government act on the recommendations contained in the NESC Mr. Morgan: I wish to share time with Deputies report on housing and introduce a tax on second Gregory, Finian McGrath, Cowley, Catherine homes? The NESC is not some radical, left wing Murphy, Healy and Cuffe. group, but a Government agency. The Government’s stock response to the house Mr. McCormack: The Deputy’s time is up. price crisis is that with the current high level of output, balance between supply and demand will Mr. Morgan: It nearly is. be achieved allowing prices to stabilise and An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? affordability problems to be resolved. The Agreed. Government’s view is contradicted by the NESC report which states that the number of people Mr. Morgan: I will restrict my comments to the eager to purchase a home but unable to do so issues of social and affordable housing and under market conditions is unlikely to get Government inaction on house prices. I will be smaller. According to the report, any improve- restricted further in addressing them as it would ment in affordability due to further restrictions in take all week to discuss them fully. The Govern- the rate of increase in house prices and the catchment’s strategy to tackle the housing crisis which up of earnings relative to them is likely to be has affected the State for the best part of the last more than offset by interest rate rises. decade is based on the laissez-faire theory that I challenge the Minister of State to bring pro- the market will eventually solve all problems. On posals before the House to meet the housing the basis of that theory, house prices have been needs of those on local authority waiting lists who allowed to spiral beyond the reach of many ordi- vainly hope to secure one of the few units of nary working people in the State. A substantial social or affordable housing being constructed for percentage of the population falls below the those priced out of the housing market. If he has affordability thresholds and is not, therefore, in a no solution to offer, he should have the dignity position to purchase homes. According to the to resign. NESC report, up to one third of all new households, or almost 14,000 annually, formed in the Mr. Gregory: Ba mhaith liom tacaıócht a thab- period 2001 to 2006 fall far below the afford- hairt don tairiscint seo de chuid Fhine Gael i ability threshold. The figure was as high as 42% dtaobh na heígeanda´la i gcu´ rsaı´ tithıóchta go in some urban areas. These circumstances have mbeadh cruinniu´ praínneach de na paírtneírı´ so´ is- developed despite Government denials about the ialta agus gur cho´ ir an Rialtas seo a chaíneadh de existence and extent of the affordability crisis. bharr gur theip go hiomlań air freastal ar dhaoine The supply of social and affordable housing is not ata´ ag lorg tithıóchta sa tı´r seo. adequate to meet the needs of these people. I support the motion as it serves to focus our The Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, is attention on the vital issue of the basic right of all fond of regaling the House with tales of the our people to decent living accommodation which number of houses being constructed in the State. successive Governments have failed to honour. Tonight, we have heard Government backbench- The Government has refused to take radical ers utter the same nonsense. The Minister of action to address this fundamental right. Most State, however, is unable to tell the House the Members will agree that the breathtaking cost of precise percentage of houses being built as houses and the massive price increases which second homes. Perhaps he does not want to admit have spiralled out of control in recent years are that of the number of houses built each year, the completely unjustifiable and demand action. The percentage which are second homes outstrips scandal of homelessness is a black mark on the 1659 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1660

[Mr. Gregory.] I urge all Members to take housing very record of the State as are lengthy waiting lists for seriously and to propose fresh ideas like those I local authority housing. Profiteers lurk in the have mentioned which put the issue at the top of background to racketeer in new house prices and the political agenda. I call on the Government to land values while a small number of multi- advance the Sustaining Progress initiative on millionaires control the bulk of development land housing and accommodation which has the in the Dublin region. potential to deliver more than 10,000 affordable Such circumstances are unsustainable and housing units. Part V of the Planning and unjustifiable and no amount of tinkering with the Development Act 2000 must be implemented. system can change them. While developers and These are sensible proposals to assist people with builders manipulate and control the housing serious housing needs. I urge all Members to market in a manner which allows them to maxi- reflect on the housing crisis in our wealthy coun- mise their vast profits, the number of unfortunate try. I will support the motion when the House people joining the local authority housing waiting divides. lists steadily increases. The average price of a house in Dublin is well in excess of \300,000 Dr. Cowley: While house prices continue to while the latest phenomenon is the increasing grow, albeit at a slower rate, the demand for number of new housing schemes advertised in social housing is now at its highest level since the property supplements which feature prices start- formation of the State. The last official record on \ ing far above 1 million. While the same property waiting list figures shows that over 48,000 house- supplements advise investors on the merits of holds are waiting for social housing but this figure properties in New Zealand, South Africa and Flo- is likely to grow after the recent assessment which rida, increasing numbers of Irish people see the took place in March. opportunity to obtain a home move increasingly There is a reluctance to deal with the lack of beyond their reach. The political philosophy of social housing. The composition of waiting lists ´ the Progressive Democrats-Fianna Fail Govern- may be changing as more smaller households and ment which produces this inequality is the most single people are replacing families on local auth- corrupting influence in Ireland today. ority waiting lists. This is a reflection of demographic changes in society. However, just because Mr. F. McGrath: I appreciate the opportunity there are more smaller and single person house- to address the housing crisis in the State to which holds should not lessen the housing need of those the Government must wake up. After eight years on the waiting list. Single people also need in power, people like the Minister of State, housing. Deputy Noel Ahern, should step aside and let someone who has the ability and is up to it get The Government constantly argues that social on with the job. His record speaks for itself and housing output has risen since 2000 but this rise the public should be reminded of it and his failure is very small when compared to the increase in to take action. The average house price in Ireland private house building for owners and investors. stands at \255,776 which represents an increase The Government continually praises itself for the of \18,000 in one year. The price of the average continued high levels of private house building as house has increased from \75,000 in 1996 while, if it had produced this housing itself. The high according to the 2002 census, 42,000 people aged level of private house building has been achieved over 30 live with their parents. Only 315 afford- by private developers, land speculators and able housing units have been acquired under Part banks, often on the backs of the significant and V of the Planning and Development Act 2000 growing number of new young households that despite the scandal of a 100,000 person local auth- need housing. These are the facts. Although an ority waiting list. There are 5,580 homeless increased supply in the number of houses being people in 3,773 households. These are the issues built has reduced the increase in house prices, the to be addressed. reality is that the entry point to become a new We require a change of attitude and policy home owner is now up to ten times the average from the Government. I urge it to implement a industrial wage. package of proposals to help first-time buyers. I Something can be done to address this. Last urge it to arrange a Da´il debate on changes to year the Government commissioned the the rent supplement scheme and to meet its NDP Oireachtas All-Party Committee on the Consti- targets and election promises on social and tution examine property rights. Recently the affordable housing. These are sensible proposals National Economic and Social Council produced on which it would be better for the Minister of a report which had a series of practical recom- State, Deputy Noel Ahern, to spend his time mendations on social and affordable housing, rather than on plotting and issuing sleazy leaflets including recommendations to provide 73,000 about me in Dublin North-Central. If the Mini- new social rented homes up to 2012. There is no ster of State spent more time concentrating on his urgency in regard to recommendations in these housing brief, it would be better for the people reports. The NESC, which represents the social who want to get a house. partners, produced a report but to date this con- 1661 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1662 sensus approach has not been reflected by the Not only are we making people postpone their Government in concrete action. working lives, we are ensuring that they live in I call on the Minister to have a debate in the poverty. The vast majority of people on waiting Da´il on this matter and to tell the public what lists have children. We are also losing out on their the Government intends to do to help low income skills and the contribution they could make to the groups access housing. Let us see if the Govern- economy and in terms of personal development. ment will actively intervene and provide more The current approach does not make social or resources to local authorities and housing associ- economic sense. ations to build more social housing like NESC For those lucky enough to be allocated an and the social partners agreed, or if it sit on its affordable house the limit for annuity loans from hands and rely on profit-driven private landlords local authorities is ridiculously low at \165,000. It to fill the gap with the tab being picked up by the is impossible for people to make the break- State in a significant bill for private rent subsidies through. Where I live affordable houses cost which is heading for \350 million this year. This around \200,000, if they are available at all. This is a case of an open cheque book for private land- problem exists in every county. In excess of lords on the back of the poor and vulnerable. The 100,000 individuals are on the waiting list. That is Minister will be aware that more and more small the equivalent of the population of three coun- families have to rely on private landlords to be ties, Carlow, Leitrim and Longford. If that is not housed. This is not a satisfactory response from a problem I do not know what is. the Government and I ask that it be examined urgently. Mr. Healy: The most important thing the Government could do in response to this motion Ms C. Murphy: Given the limited time avail- is to accept that a housing crisis exists. The hous- able I wish to focus on three aspects of the ing crisis is a damning indictment of the abject motion, namely, Part V, rent assistance and local failure of the Government to deal with the hous- authority loans. ing situation. It is a crisis when 70,000 families are Over 3,000 individuals or families are seeking on local authority housing waiting lists. It is a to be housed on the local authority waiting lists crisis when one has, as is the case in south in County Kildare. That is in the region of 10,000 Tipperary, a 40% increase in the number of people, which is equivalent to a moderate sized families on local authority waiting lists since the town. Given the extent of the development that Government came to power in 1997. It is a crisis has been occurring in Kildare I was prepared to when the average house price has risen from accept when it was introduced in the first place \75,000 in 1997 to \255,000 this year. It is about that Part V might be a reasonable response. It time the Government and the Minister dealt with is more than three years since the scheme was it as such. I call on the Government and the Mini- introduced and to date it has delivered no more ster to grasp the nettle, accept we have a housing than a couple of dozen apartments and houses. I crisis and do something about it as a matter of accepted that a lead-in time would apply, but that urgency. is just totally off the wall. Given that Part V has replaced direct-build as Mr. Cuffe: I wish to raise another housing issue the central response to the housing list, it cannot that has not been addressed amidst all the hulla- be allowed to drift in this manner. Local auth- baloo in the past ten days about rural planning orities have had a very patchy record and all the guidelines, that is the problem of affordability Department appears to be interested in doing is and housing in urban areas. Unless one is lucky complaining about how patchy that record is enough to own a site or for one’s family to own instead of investigating the reasons for it and a patch of land it is very difficult for those living addressing them. The stupidity of this approach in villages, towns and cities to provide housing for means that significant amounts of rent assistance themselves and their families. is paid to landlords for the additional years that There is a real blind spot in Government policy people are lingering on housing waiting lists. in terms of the lack of recognition of the prob- Rent supplement and how it is handled is the lems of housing in urban areas. For every site and greatest poverty trap I have encountered. If one every house that is built in the open countryside works, one does not qualify for rent assistance. there is a significant level of frustration building One does not have a choice but to stay at home up among people who want to house themselves and in many cases postpone one’s working life. and their families in urban areas. The Govern- I know numerous people who have resorted to ment could be doing more. It could provide sites tranquillisers because of this, which results in and well managed plots of land close to the heart them just drifting along. In most cases taking a of our villages, on under-used land in our cities, job is not an option, especially when one looks at or on surplus institutional land in towns. the cost of rent and child care. There must be a There is a significant amount of land, not out change in this approach. in the open countryside but close to schools, pubs, Five years appears to be a typical period for a shops and to the heart of our communities that person to be required to spend on the waiting list. could have well designed schemes built on it. I 1663 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1664

[Mr. Cuffe.] ing anywhere in the greater Dublin area. I would appeal to the Government to spend more time like the Minister of State to put that in place with- looking at what can be achieved close to the heart out delay. of where communities want to be. I urge the Government to look again at Part V and to put Mr. N. Ahern: They do not need my approval. back in the provisions that were filleted out of the 2000 Act in late 2002. The provisions taken Mr. McCormack: I propose to share time with out would have provided enough funding to give Deputies Olivia Mitchell, Durkan and Kehoe. people roofs over their heads. There is now only a smattering of housing coming up under Part V. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? As a previous speaker pointed out, the argument Agreed. that it takes time is good enough for one or two years but not three years on and seven years after Mr. McCormack: Deputy Fiona O’Malley, the Government came to office. before she left the Chamber, urged the House to The Government must do more with the pro- consider the dilemma facing young couples. This visions of the Planning and Development Act. It is a problem she should face too because her must provide a spectrum of housing options for party is in Government. It should certainly realise the dilemma facing young couples. The reality of people and allow for flats to be sold. People are this was brought home to me when a young living in local authority accommodation whose couple with three children came into my office parents and grandparents grew up in the flats in recently. They have been seven years on the local which they live. These people do not have a authority waiting list in Galway city and are still chance to buy them outright. It makes them unable to get a house. They pay \200 a week for uneasy and unhappy that they are looking at new modest rented accommodation and because the apartments being built to the left and right of husband works, they do not qualify for rent sup- them while they know they have no chance of plement. Despite this, the local authority is still buying the roof over their head. People should unable to house people who find themselves in be given that right, whether it be in Mounttown, that dilemma. The housing officer said that there Ringsend or the north inner city. Those people were people with four children and more who wish to be the heart of their communities and the were on the waiting list longer and would have to Minister is not doing enough to allow them to buy be housed before them. their flats. I look forward to provisions being put On researching the situation, I found that more in place to allow people to buy their homes. than 100,000 people are on local authority waiting The Minister must also do more in regard to lists. The Government does little to alleviate the quality. I foresee that in a couple of years the situation and, if anything, its policies make European Union will again take a case against matters much worse. It has abolished the first- Ireland because the Minister is dragging his heals time buyer’s grant, increased VAT by 1% on on the building performance directive. Why does housing building materials and imposed develop- he not introduce it from 1 January next year? ment charges, which alone added \15,000 to the Why does he not give all new homes as well as price of a house. The average price of a house in those that come on the market an energy rating? Ireland is now \255,776, an increase of around \18,000 in one year. The Government bears the Mr. N. Ahern: Will the Deputy get the agree- main responsibility for this. Since this Govern- ment of Members behind him for that? ment came to office, the average house price has increased by approximately \160,000. It has more Mr. Cuffe: Fridges have an energy label on than doubled in the lifetime of the current Fianna them. The Minister of State should provide the Fa´il-Progressive Democrats coalition. Some 5,500 same for housing. Why not provide grants for people in Ireland are homeless. greenhousing solutions? Why not provide and In the recent budget an attempt was made to foster the innovation that people want to pro- alter stamp duty for first-time buyers, but it was vide? Instead we get a dumbing mediocrity when not enough to take them out of the tax net. Fine it comes to the Government’s housing policy. Gael, in the next Government, will abolish stamp While the Minister of State often boasts about duty on second-hand houses up to a value of the record number of completions, 70,000, 80,000 \400,000. The Government has taxed housing out or maybe 90,000 next year, the proportion of local of the reach of first-time buyers and young authority and affordable homes is at a record low couples. Between development levies and taxes, and he must do something about this. He owes it a major proportion of the price paid for a house to people who have been on housing waiting lists is directly taken by the Government. The Con- for many years. struction Industry Federation has published fig- I have one last plea. The Minister of State ures which show that the Government takes more should put in place a joint housing list for all the than \100,000 out of the housebuyer’s pocket Dublin local authorities. A bureaucracy exists with every house purchased. that can be very difficult for people to overcome. This week in the Da´il, the Government voted They deserve the right to be considered for hous- to pass the Second Stage of the Disability Bill 1665 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1666

2004 against the express wishes of all groups rep- which I imagine is also increasingly relevant in resenting people with disabilities as well as the other urban constituencies, namely, the owner- wishes of Fine Gael and other Members of the ship and management of property by companies, Opposition. In a typical arrogant manner it whether for gated communities, apartments, ignored the strong lobby against this Bill in its small housing developments or duplexes. This is present form. A similar Bill was withdrawn under an area of uncharted waters in Ireland. Problems pressure before the previous general election on are emerging already from the number of con- the promise that it would deliver rights-based tacts I have had on this issue in my constituency. legislation. The Government has once again It is a matter that should be dealt with now before deceived and let down people with disabilities. it reaches crisis proportions. I want to refer to the attitude of councils It is mainly about ensuring that management towards applications for the disabled person’s charges are paid and kept for the purpose for grant and others and the red tape and delays which they were intended. A major change has involved. Some 90% grant aid is available for the occurred in the scale of apartment ownership. It disabled person’s grant, but only 60% of that is is not an entirely new phenomenon. We have had refundable from the Government. In many cases apartments in the past, but they were owned pri- that I have witnessed, because of the red tape, an marily by landlords who had an income against invalid person who required a downstairs bed- which to offset management charges. The situa- room or bathroom and shower in a two-storey tion is now quite different in that a much broader house died before the work was completed. That spectrum of the population, including many first- is scandalous and the Government has allowed it time buyers and young families, are moving into to continue. these apartment blocks. There is a need for stan- This week the Minister for the Environment, dardisation of leases so they can know what they Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, are getting into. Something similar to the residen- relaxed, as he termed it, the regulations for one- tial tenancy board contracts that are produced for off housing in rural areas. This is a sham. The landlords and tenants should be available for senior planning officer in County Galway told me apartment block owners. They should have some it would make not one iota of difference. idea not alone of their own but of their joint responsibilities. That is where the concept falls Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Ocho´ n, ocho´ n. down and there is an enormous information deficit. Mr. McCormack: I dealt with a simple case last Maintenance charges now resemble the old week in an isolated area of Connemara involving rates bills and are regarded with the same dread, an old lady living in a dilapidated house attached taking a large chunk of a homeowner’s money. to a business. The business and the house were The lack of understanding of what left to her son. The family were trying to provide 8 o’clock they are for only adds to the tension a two-bedroomed house for the mother in an area associated with them. Maintenance slightly away from the business, which is a public charges for starter apartments can be as high as house, because of the noise, yet the planning \2,000 a year, placing enormous pressures on officer could give me no hope that permission young home owners. House buyers are being would be granted. All that family wanted to do duped by elaborate designs, such as fountains and was—— wooden cladding, that look lovely and sell the apartments quickly but are high maintenance fea- Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Put it in as part of the tures. It is never properly explained to the owners development plan. that they are responsible for maintaining them. A property’s value can rapidly fall as the owners Mr. McCormack: ——to keep the mother in cannot meet the maintenance costs associated the local community. Instead of that she may with these features. have to go into a nursing home. That is not the When owners cannot pay the maintenance policy we should pursue for housing. I would like charges, the exterior of the building falls into dis- the Minister to spell out what councils are doing repair, making them unpleasant places in which in this regard. to live and difficult to sell. However, there are A fully integrated policy should be adopted to other pitfalls such as those associated with tackle homelessness. This should include insurance responsibilities held for common areas. measures to prevent people from becoming Many owners do not realise that if their building homeless as well as provisions for those already is not properly insured, the mortgage holders can without a home. Fine Gael opposes the Govern- foreclose on the mortgage. If uninsured premises ment’s six month rule on rent supplements and all go on fire, those who withheld their management other welfare cuts that tend to drive more people charges are responsible not only for their own further into poverty and homelessness. building but the apartments of others and can be sued by other owners. There is also the added Ms O. Mitchell: I support the motion tabled by problem of public liability. Those who cannot my colleagues. I will confine myself to one prob- meet their management costs increase the burden lem which is relevant to my constituency and on others. The sinking fund, a precautionary fund 1667 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1668

[Ms O. Mitchell.] for social and affordable housing. The Minister primarily for dealing with major structural for the Environment, Heritage and Local repairs, is dipped into as the burden becomes too Government replied that the information was not great. If that is frittered away on day-to-day available. That is gross negligence on the Govern- maintenance there will be endless problems for ment’s part. There was never an intention to those affected apartment blocks in the future. resolve the housing problem. It has been raised Problems associated with property manage- in the House for the past seven years, yet not one ment companies are beginning to arise. Many dis- attempt has been made to resolve it. However, putes are due to misunderstandings as to what now coming near the general election, the property management companies are about. They Government will put its hands together to pre- are working on behalf of those who own the tend to the public it is addressing it. Too late — apartments. Matters can be simplified for apart- is the answer. ment owners. I accept the potential exists for homeowners to be the managers of their build- Mr. Kehoe: I congratulate my colleague ings. However, the exigencies of company law Deputy O’Dowd for tabling this motion. I am make this difficult for small complexes and can maddened that those Members who will vote with put unnecessary responsibilities on them. the Government amendment tonight are the ones New legislation is required to ensure the sink- who gave out about the former Minister for Fin- ing funds for long-term structural repairs are pro- ance, Mr. McCreevy, for abolishing the first-time tected. The Minister for the Environment, Heri- buyer’s grant. Those Members now have an tage and Local Government must promote opportunity to re-introduce the first-time buyer’s standard leases and give the maximum protection grant. The Minister of State at the Department of and certainty to buyers. Almost all homes being the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- built in south Dublin are apartments; 1,600 ment, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe, should not nod his received planning permission last year alone. head. I have plenty more to say on this and he Nationwide, apartments make up one fifth of all will be fed up with nodding his head when I am house units built. Apartment blocks can provide finished. a pleasant living environment with a good social mix, but only if the standard of the property is Mr. B. O’Keeffe: We introduced several maintained. This can only be ensured if there is measures in the last budget. regulatory and legislative change and before crises emerge. Mr. Kehoe: The housing list in County Wexford gets longer by the day. First-time buyers Mr. Durkan: I was saddened to hear from the cannot afford to buy homes because of the abol- Government benches long apologies and insin- ition of the first-time buyer’s grant and increases uations that the Opposition does not understand in VAT and development charges. These are the housing problem. It is the Government that stealth taxes on every young house buyer. Last has not understood this problem. The saddest week, the Government had the audacity to pub- part of this is when we are told record numbers lish new planning guidelines. One would think it of houses are being built when they are being had produced the Bible. bought by financial institutions, investors and Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Probably next to it. others who rent them back to the unfortunate people who are ultimately paid by the sup- Mr. Kehoe: I am glad the Minister of State said plementary welfare system. To heat more coals so because the Minister of State at the Depart- on the heads of those in need of a home, the ment of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Browne, Government last year decided to curtail those went on Wexford local radio to rubbish the guide- welfare payments. lines. Does the Minister of State, Deputy Batt Since the Government came into office, house O’Keeffe, understand the significance of this? prices have risen. There has been much waffle and hot air from the Government about building Mr. B. O’Keeffe: The Opposition cannot new houses. However, there has been no action. understand the benefits of the guidelines. Some Government Members explain this away by claiming there are different problems, such as a Mr. Kehoe: The Minister of State, Deputy growing population. We always had a growing Browne, claimed the new guidelines will make no population. In the mid-1980s when there was difference. On Monday afternoon I telephoned a allegedly no money in the State and those on the senior planner in Wexford County Council other side of the House claimed they had the regarding 13 pending planning applications. I answer for everything, my local authority, in one know they will not get approval due to the hypoc- year, provided 600 houses for people on waiting risy within the planning departments. However lists. This was a time when the list comprised when I asked the senior planner if the new guide- 1,000 people. Now there are more than 3,500 lines might make a difference, he replied “no”. I families on the housing list but only a dribble of seldom agree with the Minister of State, Deputy social housing being provided. Browne, but I agreed with him that morning. I Recently, I tabled a parliamentary question on hope the Minister of State Deputy Batt O’Keeffe the landbanks available to the local authorities tells the Minister for the Environment, Heritage 1669 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1670 and Local Government that the Minister of State, higher residential densities and streamlining the Deputy Browne, rubbished the new planning planning mechanisms. It is no surprise, therefore, guidelines. that there was no acknowledgement by the Oppo- sition during this debate of the considerable Mr. B. O’Keeffe: The Minister of State, Deputy strides made in the housing sector in recent years. Browne, would not do that. Mr. Kehoe: There are no surprises to pull out Mr. McCormack: He should be sacked. of the hat.

Mr. Kehoe: Many Fianna Fa´il backbenchers Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Measures were introduced to felt like rubbishing them but do not have the neck boost overall housing output. There were almost to do so. The guidelines are only a bloody vote- 77,000 completions in 2004 compared with a mere getter. 22,000 ten years ago.

Mr. McCormack: Pretence. Mr. Durkan: Who bought them?

Mr. Kehoe: Deputy McCormack spoke about Mr. B. O’Keeffe: The year 2004 was the tenth the disabled person’s grant. I am aware of appli- year to show a massive increase in housing out- cations for that grant in County Wexford that are put. The Residential Tenancies Act 2004 marked three to four years old. One dates from a month an important step in developing and modernising or two before the general election in 2002. The the private rented sector. Substantial resources elderly couple concerned are in failing health. By have also been invested in social and affordable the time they get the disabled person’s grant it housing. will be no good because they will have gone to their eternal reward. That is the sad reality of Mr. Kehoe: The Department has brainwashed what is happening to the disabled person’s grant the Minister. scheme not only in Wexford but throughout the country. Mr. B. O’Keeffe: We are conscious of the prob- The motion calls on the Government to meet lems of affordability faced by people—— its national development plan targets and election promises on social and affordable housing and to Mr. Durkan: Just about conscious. convene a crisis meeting with the social partners to address the issue. I ask the Government to sup- Mr. B. O’Keeffe: ——and we will continue to port the motion but its Members will vote against work to ensure house prices come down and it tonight. They will not agree with the motion more land is made available. That is happening here but when they return to their constituencies as we speak. The Department is not idle. It is they will agree with it. currently examining the NESC and other recent reports. It is paying considerable attention to the Minister of State at the Department of the proceedings of the All-Party Oireachtas Commit- Environment, Heritage and Local Government tee on the Constitution on private property, (Mr. B. O’Keeffe): The Minister of State, Deputy which has a bearing on the housing sector. It is Noel Ahern, confirmed last night that there is a considering new measures that will be desirable remarkable record of achievement by this both in the short and medium terms. These will Government with regard to housing. He clearly shortly come before the Government. demonstrated that housing is a priority for the Much was made last night of the level of out- Government. There is a clear and comprehensive puts being achieved under social and affordable housing strategy which is designed to increase housing programmes. We are currently delivering supply. We are increasing supply. numbers of social and affordable housing that We are also increasing access to housing for have not been seen in a generation. lower income groups and improving the housing conditions of local authority tenants, the elderly, Mr. Durkan: That is not true; it is rubbish. The the homeless and people with disabilities. Minister should sue the guy who wrote that script.

Mr. McCormack: Who wrote that speech? Mr. B. O’Keeffe: There is a total housing provision of \2 billion and this will enable the hous- Mr. B. O’Keeffe: I will outline the facts. ing needs of in excess of 13,000 households to be met through the various social and affordable Mr. Durkan: The Minister should sue the per- housing measures. son who gave him that script. Mr. Durkan: Does the Minister believe that? Mr. B. O’Keeffe: The Government accepts that housing supply is the key to keeping house prices Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Further advances in meeting down. It is working to that end by investing in long-term housing needs are expected this year infrastructure, using land effectively through from the new rental accommodation scheme. 1671 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1672

[Mr. B. O’Keeffe.] one with the Government with regard to the Contrary to what has been said by some Planning and Development Act and the trans- Deputies—— parency and accountability it would yield. Sud- denly, Fine Gael is questioning the contributions. Mr. Kehoe: What about the homeless? These contributions will ensure the provision of playgrounds, community facilities and the other Mr. B. O’Keeffe: ——it should be clarified that facilities that are crucial for a community. social housing output is not delivered solely by local authorities. We have moved on. An Ceann Comhairle: The Minister must give way. I am obliged to call Deputy Perry. Mr. Kehoe: What about homeless people? Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Once again, as they did Mr. B. O’Keeffe: We have developed and before the last election, Fine Gael Members are expanded the voluntary and co-operative housing defining Fine Gael policy on the hoof, which sector in recent years to a point where over 1,600 cannot be delivered in the long term. units of accommodation were provided last year for people in need. It is a record for the sector Mr. Perry: I wish to share time with Deputies and is almost three times the output levels Ring and O’Dowd. achieved by the rainbow Government.

Mr. Durkan: The Government has an appal- An Ceann Comhairle: Is that agreed? Agreed. ling record. Mr. Perry: On the issue of housing, the Mr. B. O’Keeffe: The Government is fully com- Government has failed on all accounts. This mitted to continuing the supports for this sector. includes not only the astronomical cost of buying It is making a substantial contribution to overall a house but also homelessness, the supply of housing output. social housing and planning. The State gets The Opposition went to great lengths in its \50,000 from every new house that is built. The attempts to pour cold water on the likely impact greatest profit margin is secured not by the devel- of the rural housing guidelines which were oper but by the Government. A couple buying a launched last week. new house is, in effect, giving the State \50,000 while the first time buyer’s grant has been Mr. Durkan: That is another whitewash. abolished. I recently raised with the Government the Mr. B. O’Keeffe: The guidelines are explicit in badly needed 500 new local authority houses in a way that they never were previously. County Sligo.

Mr. Kehoe: Will the Minister give way for a Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Why not mention the exemp- question? tion in the budget or the tax relief in the previous budget? Mr. B. O’Keeffe: They are a massive step forward in defining what are reasonable proposals Mr. Perry: Sligo has a young population and it and suitable sites. They go significantly further needs to encourage people to live in the region. than both the 1997 sustainable development Thankfully, people are willing to live there but strategy and the national spatial strategy in pro- there is no social housing available for them. viding the policy framework for local authorities Those who can afford to buy houses find them- to plan effectively for their areas. selves crippled with enormous debt and unable to cope with the burden of indirect taxation which Mr. Kehoe: What about the comments of the this Government has imposed. Minister of State, Deputy Browne? The Government is responsible for not con- Mr. B. O’Keeffe: My advice to Opposition trolling house prices which, in some regions, are \ Members is that they tell their councillors that increasing at a rate of 20,000 per year. Its mis- the development plans and local area plans are management has resulted in a major crisis. In being implemented and urge them to ensure that 1996, when Fine Gael was in Government, the their local authorities will put the guidelines in average price of a house was £75,000 nationally place. and £88,000 in Dublin. House prices are expected to rise annually—— Mr. Kehoe: The Minister should say that to his party Members, including Deputy Browne. Mr. B. O’Keeffe: At that time the economy was on the floor. Mr. B. O’Keeffe: The Opposition also took issue with the long-standing system of develop- Mr. Perry: ——but they are now rising at an ment contributions. The Fine Gael Party was at astonishing rate. 1673 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1674

Mr. Durkan: We know who brought it down. Mr. Ring: The Minister of State is polluted by power. He is intoxicated with power. Mr. Perry: This year a house in Dublin will cost \340,000 while in other parts of the country it will Mr. B. O’Keeffe: I am supposed to be environ- cost \220,000. That is a rise of \20,000 per year, mentally friendly over here. which is unbelievable. Twenty years ago people had to leave this country because they could not Mr. Ring: The Government is not living in the find work. Thank God, that is no longer the case. real world. Ministers have lost touch with their constituents. The minute the Minister of State got Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Good management. his car and was driven around, he lost control of himself. When he was over here he had all the Mr. Perry: However, this Government has answers, yet over there he has no answers. overseen a position where people simply cannot Fianna Faíl was always the party of the build- afford to buy a house. Young people have no ers. The builders fall over themselves to get into option but to live at home until they are in their the camp in Galway to hand over money to the 30s and earning a wage which will allow them to party. They are telling the party that they are giv- buy a house. Otherwise, they must throw money ing over the money so that houses are not built. down the drain on rented accommodation. That is what they say to the young people of The changes which have been implemented Ireland. The houses must not be built so that the have been too few and too late. The \317,000 builders can control the market and the prices stamp duty threshold is lower than the average and they can give Fianna Faíl more money. Yes- price of a house for a first time buyer in Dublin. terday, I listened to a presentation by the Society What was the Minister, Deputy Cowen’s, inten- of St. Vincent de Paul on social housing. I was tion when he introduced this change? While a told that there were 6,000 houses built last year change in the threshold is welcome, a change for social housing, when the Government promised three times that number. The Government which would affect people in a more helpful way has let down the poor and the weak. would have been more welcome. When it had an opportunity to make the build- Only 187 affordable housing units were com- ers hand the land over to the local authorities, the pleted last year. Figures for this year are elusive Government rushed legislation through the Daíl so we can only presume there will not be a major on Christmas week and guillotined the Bill to change in that figure at the end of 2005, regard- make sure that the builders would be protected less of what the Government says. Talking will for the Galway races. The builders then could not put a roof over people’s heads. According to give more money to Fianna Faíl, and that is what the Higher Education Authority, 1,000 students is going on. These are the vested interests that are living in hostels. It is unacceptable that the are dictating the construction of houses in Government will refer to the need for a highly Ireland. The Government is not doing so because educated population but will not support students it has handed over control to the builders. I by putting a roof over their heads. We have the worked as an auctioneer and I know that housing wealthiest economy in Europe, but people are is all about supply and demand. If one controls still living on the streets. A total of 1,140 children the supply, there is no problem. The Government are homeless, which is horrific. The Government and the builders are controlling the supply. It is must stand up and be accountable for this. happening in my area. Builders from the Fianna The national spatial strategy continues to be Faíl Party are buying the first, second and third undermined at every level. We need to put a field so that they can control the housing market strategy in place that will not just make do for a for the next 30 years. They will dictate how many few years, but will be sturdy enough to support houses are built every year and at what price. Ireland for generations to come. With a growing The Government parties are the greatest rob- population, planning is imperative yet we have a bers of all. Young people trying to start out are lack of planning from the Government. It should paying big money for sites and to builders. Then be truly ashamed of this. People have to wait on they have to pay crippling taxes to the Govern- lists for affordable housing, yet they cannot avail ment. That is a disgrace. If the Government par- of such housing. It is impossible for so many ties were serious about housing, they would give young people today to get on the housing ladder. young people the opportunity and would not charge them any tax. They would give them a tax Mr. Ring: The Minister of State, Deputy Batt rebate if they were serious about the housing O’Keeffe, was a mighty man when he was on the market, but they are not. They are serious only backbenches. You are now polluted with power about the builders who have controlled the having worked with officials in the Department. market for too long.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy must make Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Does the Deputy ever stop his remarks through the Chair. on occasion and look at the facts? 1675 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1676

Mr. Ring: The Minister of State had all the cost \322,000 by the end of the year. That rep- answers when he was on the backbenches, but he resents an increase of approximately 7%. is now polluted by power. It has gone to his head and he is now talking like Ministers who have Mr. N. Ahern: Salaries go up as well. been there for ten years. I thought that would Mr. O’Dowd: What about savings? How will never happen to the Minister of State, Deputy someone get an extra \22,000 on 1 December Batt O’Keeffe. He disappoints me. I know he when that person cannot afford the house on 1 waited a long time and he wants to hold on to the January? This issue is at the core of Fine Gael job. I do not blame him for that, but he should policy. We are asking the Government to intro- try to do something for the young couples in this duce a special savings scheme, like the SSIA, country who want a home and forget about the which will help young people who are saving to guys who can afford it. He should forget about buy a home. That is the kernel of our problem. It the millionaires who are using this country as a would cost \50 million in one year. Under the holiday home. It is time the Government dealt scheme, first-time buyers would receive \1 for with this problem. We are aware of the problems every \3 saved, provided those savings are used and the answers, and it is up to the Government for a deposit on a house. No tax or interest would to deliver the answers. It must forget about the apply and the recipient must show regular vested interests and look after the young people monthly savings for a minimum of two years. The who need a home. scheme would operate for both new and second- Take the example of the disabled person’s hand houses. grant. I am tired of people coming into my clinic Regardless of changes in the market and how about this. The Minister of State passed a remark our parties differ politically, young people today to my colleague, telling him to go back to the cannot buy a house of their own. They can least local authority. When people could speak up in afford it in Dublin city. The Minister of State local authorities, the Government got rid of them spoke last night about areas where starter homes because it knew that we knew what was going on. were available for \140,000. These houses are County managers come to Dublin every week to very rare indeed — one would not get a garage meet the Minister for the Environment, Heritage for that money in Dublin. and Local Government. The managers have said that they do not want Oireachtas Members on Mr. N. Ahern: There were fine homes sold for councils because they know too much. that price near Drogheda. Mr. O’Dowd: I am not saying that these houses Mr. B. O’Keeffe: That does not say much for do not exist, but the average price is double that. Fine Gael councillors. It would be great if they stayed at that price, but it is not controlled by the Government at this Mr. Ring: The Government has taken out the stage. It is unacceptable that the average house people who knew something about it. price in Dublin city is far beyond the means of the ordinary person. I challenge the Minister of An Ceann Comhairle: I am reluctant to inter- State to introduce such a savings scheme to help vene, but the Deputy’s time has concluded. young couples buy a house of their own. Another issue that has not been addressed by Mr. Ring: That is a pity because I was only get- the Government is social and affordable housing. ting going. It is estimated that 77,000 houses will be constructed this year. According to the NESC Mr. O’Dowd: This has been a very lively report’s figures, which were published today by debate and I welcome the sincere contributions AIB on the web, one third of purchasers of these made. While most of them have been made by houses will buy a house for the second time. The the Opposition, there has been a meeting of Minister should do a deal with the construction minds on some issues. There is a real need to industry, which employs more than 250,000 debate housing and I hope that the Government people, so that it would meet the Government’s provides more time to discuss this issue at a demand for social and affordable housing. The later date. requirement for people in this category will be If we had a proper spatial strategy, we could between 0.5% and 1.2% of the 77,000 homes plan the development of our country. If the under construction this year. As demand for Government placed industry in the towns around housing drops, the Minister should do a deal so Dublin and around the country, we would be able that when houses are built, the Department will to build houses for a cheaper price in those areas. purchase them at a price that people can sub- The price of housing in Dublin has now gone out sequently afford. That is what must happen. It is of control. What is possible to do in towns in not the only future for social and affordable housing. possible to do in Dublin. A house that cost \300,000 to buy on 1 January 2005 is expected to Amendment put. 1677 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1678

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 68; Nı´l, 50.

Ta´

Ahern, Michael. Jacob, Joe. Ahern, Noel. Keaveney, Cecilia. Andrews, Barry. Kelleher, Billy. Ardagh, Seań. Kelly, Peter. Blaney, Niall. Killeen, Tony. Brady, Johnny. Kirk, Seamus. Brady, Martin. Kitt, Tom. Brennan, Seámus. Lenihan, Brian. Browne, John. Lenihan, Conor. Callanan, Joe. McDowell, Michael. Callely, Ivor. McEllistrim, Thomas. Carey, Pat. McGuinness, John. Carty, John. Martin, Michea´l. Cassidy, Donie. Moloney, John. Collins, Michael. Moynihan, Donal. Coughlan, Mary. Moynihan, Michael. Cregan, John. Nolan, M. J. Cullen, Martin. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Curran, John. O´ Fearghaı´l, Seań. Davern, Noel. O’Connor, Charlie. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Donnell, Liz. Dempsey, Noel. O’Donovan, Denis. Dempsey, Tony. O’Flynn, Noel. Dennehy, John. O’Keeffe, Batt. Devins, Jimmy. O’Malley, Fiona. Ellis, John. O’Malley, Tim. Finneran, Michael. Parlon, Tom. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Power, Peter. Fleming, Seań. Roche, Dick. Fox, Mildred. Sexton, Mae. Gallagher, Pat The Cope. Treacy, Noel. Glennon, Jim. Wallace, Mary. Haughey, Seań. Walsh, Joe. Hoctor, Maíre. Wilkinson, Ollie.

Nı´l

Boyle, Dan. Mitchell, Olivia. Breen, Pat. Morgan, Arthur. Broughan, Thomas P. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Bruton, Richard. Murphy, Catherine. Burton, Joan. Murphy, Gerard. Connaughton, Paul. Neville, Dan. Costello, Joe. O´ Caolaín, Caoimhghıń. Cowley, Jerry. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Crowe, Seań. O’Dowd, Fergus. Cuffe, Ciarań. O’Keeffe, Jim. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Shea, Brian. Durkan, Bernard J. Pattison, Seamus. English, Damien. Penrose, Willie. Enright, Olwyn. Perry, John. Gogarty, Paul. Rabbitte, Pat. Gregory, Tony. Ring, Michael. Healy, Seamus. Ryan, Seań. Higgins, Joe. Sargent, Trevor. Howlin, Brendan. Sherlock, Joe. Kehoe, Paul. Shortall, Ro´ isıń. Lynch, Kathleen. Stagg, Emmet. McCormack, Padraic. Stanton, David. McGinley, Dinny. Timmins, Billy. McGrath, Finian. Upton, Mary. McManus, Liz. Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Kehoe and Stagg.

Amendment declared carried. Question put: “That the motion, as amended, be agreed to.” 1679 Social and Affordable Housing: 20 April 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1680

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 68; Nı´l, 49.

Ta´

Ahern, Michael. Jacob, Joe. Ahern, Noel. Keaveney, Cecilia. Andrews, Barry. Kelleher, Billy. Ardagh, Seań. Kelly, Peter. Blaney, Niall. Killeen, Tony. Brady, Johnny. Kirk, Seámus. Brady, Martin. Kitt, Tom. Brennan, Seámus. Lenihan, Brian. Browne, John. Lenihan, Conor. Callanan, Joe. McDowell, Michael. Callely, Ivor. McEllistrim, Thomas. Carey, Pat. McGuinness, John. Carty, John. Martin, Mıćhea´l. Cassidy, Donie. Moloney, John. Collins, Michael. Moynihan, Donal. Coughlan, Mary. Moynihan, Michael. Cregan, John. Nolan, M.J. Cullen, Martin. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Curran, John. O´ Fearghaı´l, Seań. Davern, Noel. O’Connor, Charlie. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Donnell, Liz. Dempsey, Noel. O’Donovan, Denis. Dempsey, Tony. O’Flynn, Noel. Dennehy, John. O’Keeffe, Batt. Devins, Jimmy. O’Malley, Fiona. Ellis, John. O’Malley, Tim. Finneran, Michael. Parlon, Tom. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Power, Peter. Fleming, Seań. Roche, Dick. Fox, Mildred. Sexton, Mae. Gallagher, Pat the Cope. Treacy, Noel. Glennon, Jim. Wallace, Mary. Haughey, Seań. Walsh, Joe. Hoctor, Maíre. Wilkinson, Ollie.

Nı´l

Boyle, Dan. McManus, Liz. Breen, Pat. Mitchell, Olivia. Broughan, Thomas P. Morgan, Arthur. Bruton, Richard. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Burton, Joan. Murphy, Catherine. Connaughton, Paul. Murphy, Gerard. Costello, Joe. Neville, Dan. ´ Cowley, Jerry. O Caolaín, Caoimhghıń. ´ Crowe, Seań. O Snodaigh, Aengus. Cuffe, Ciarań. O’Dowd, Fergus. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Keeffe, Jim. O’Shea, Brian. Durkan, Bernard J. Pattison, Seámus. English, Damien. Penrose, Willie. Enright, Olwyn. Perry, John. Gogarty, Paul. Rabbitte, Pat. Gregory, Tony. Ring, Michael. Healy, Seámus. Ryan, Seań. Higgins, Joe. Sargent, Trevor. Howlin, Brendan. Sherlock, Joe. Kehoe, Paul. Shortall, Ro´ isıń. Lynch, Kathleen. Stanton, David. McCormack, Pa´draic. Timmins, Billy. McGinley, Dinny. Upton, Mary. McGrath, Finian. Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Kehoe and Wall.

Question declared carried. 1681 Irish Blood 20 April 2005. Transfusion Service 1682

Message from Select Committee. dragged its heels and nothing was done. As a compromise, it was agreed to appoint a panel of An Ceann Comhairle: The Select Committee experts agreed by the IBTS and a sub-committee on Finance and the Public Service has completed of the Southern Health Board. Those inter- its consideration of the following Estimates for national experts, recognised as experts in their public services for the year ending 31 December 2005, Votes 2, 3, 4, 13 and 14 (Revised). field, recommended that Ireland should have a second test centre to ensure a safe, secure, speedy service. Adjournment Debate. People may not be aware of this, but doctors and consultants in the south are concerned about ———— this centre that has served the country well. Everyone from the expert panel to doctors and Irish Blood Transfusion Service. clients are concerned about those whose health Ms Lynch: It seems the Minister for Health is and safety this Government is charged with pro- determined to avoid any direct connection with tecting. The experts say that two centres is the this issue, despite its importance. The last time way to go. The question remains why we are still this issue was discussed in this House was 25 June waiting on a new building. Will we have to wait 2004. At the time, the Minister for State at the for this new building as long as we have been Department of Health and Children, Deputy Tim waiting for BreastCheck? What is happening and O’Malley, assured me the then Minister, Deputy where is the building? Martin, was fully aware of the difficulties with the Everyone agrees that the scandal that was current building in Cork and was working with hepatitis C and the infection of haemophiliacs the IBTS to develop a suitable alternative. through contaminated blood products should not The development brief for the new Cork centre have happened and can never be allowed to hap- project was submitted to the Department by the pen again. The only way to avoid it is by having Irish Blood Transfusion Service in March 2003. two test centres, one of which happens to be The cost of the project at that time was \28 mill- located in Cork and serves the Munster region. ion. We can only wonder how much it would cost today. We have no notion of how much it would Minister of State at the Department of Health cost because nothing has happened. No design and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): I thank Deputy team has been appointed and no work has taken Lynch for raising this matter. I make this reply place on the promised new building despite the on behalf of the Tańaiste and Minister for Health promise made by the previous Minister for and Children, Deputy Harney. The Irish Blood Health and Children, Deputy Martin and the Transfusion Service is a national organisation Minister of State, Deputy Tim O’Malley that that plays an essential role in the health services planning permission would be, in his own words, of this State. Despite the challenges of recent fast-tracked and that all that was to be done years, not least the particular difficulty presented would be done as quickly as possible. Despite by vCJD, the service has risen to the challenge this, nothing has happened. There are three new and maintained the national blood supply to prefabs but the service still works from the old hospitals. prefabs which have been nailed up and their The Munster centre is an integral part of the roofs repaired. national organisation. While there have been We should remind ourselves that this is the acknowledged difficulties with the facilities avail- centre that discovered a link between contami- able to the Munster centre, the Tańaiste is confi- nated blood products and hepatitis C, something dent that the service provided to the people of for which every woman should be grateful. The the Munster region is on a par with services Cork centre is the only one, apart from a labora- nationally. I assure the Deputy the Tańaiste is tory in a maternity unit in Galway general aware of the difficulties with the current building hospital, that has received a quality assured ISO in Cork and is working with the board of the Irish mark. The IBTS headquarters in Dublin has Blood Transfusion Service to develop a suitable never achieved this quality mark. The Cork alternative. centre achieved the quality mark under appalling The development brief for the new Munster conditions, leaking roofs, prefabs over 20 years centre project was submitted to the Department old and no certainty about the future of the unit. by the Irish Blood Transfusion Service in March Imagine what it could have done had it had ideal 2003. The capital cost of the project, inclusive of working conditions. special testing facilities, is estimated at more than This saga began with the Finlay tribunal. The \30 million. The Tańaiste has asked me to assure main recommendation from that awful tribunal the House that provision is included in the was that the blood transfusion service in Cork Department’s capital plan for 2005 to allow the should be upgraded and a new building put in appointment of a design team and commence- place. That was in 1997. In 2001, the Joint Com- ment of the planning process. While planning for mittee for Health and Children supported the the new centre is in progress, the IBTS board Finlay recommendation but still the IBTS approved an interim development for the Muns- 1683 Digital Hub 20 April 2005. Project 1684

[Mr. B. Lenihan.] failed and agreement has not been reached ter centre in November 2003. The 660 sq. m. between the public and private sectors regarding facilities which were completed in December the delivery of the development. 2004 were developed on the St. Finbarr’s The project is located on a nine-acre site, of Hospital site at a cost of approximately \3 million which only two acres have been developed. I am which was met from the resources of the IBTS. concerned because we have had the debacles of The Ta´naiste understands that the Irish Medi- electronic voting, which cost more cines Board, which is the competent authority for 9 o’clock than \50 million, the Red Cow the IBTS, has recently inspected the new facilities roundabout, which also cost a signifi- and is satisfied that they meet the required good cant sum, and the port tunnel, which can only manufacturing practice requirements for the accommodate small trucks. I do not want a scen- immediate future. ario to develop whereby the digital hub, another While there is no argument that this develop- flagship project, runs into trouble because expec- ment is an interim solution and that permanent tations are not being realised and targets are not new premises are required for the Munster being met. The original plan was not workable or centre, there has nonetheless been considerable was badly thought out, or it is not meeting expec- additional investment at the centre over the tations for one reason or another. years. A new components laboratory was pro- I thank the Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural vided at a cost of more than \600,000, a second Resources for coming in to reply to the debate. I consultant post was approved and new posts in ask that an urgent reassessment of the project be quality assurance and information technology undertaken with a view to reassuring the local were also approved in recent years. The Progesa community and the tenants on site of the future integrated computer system went live in Cork in of the project and ensuring all delays are short- March 2003, before Dublin which went live in circuited. If that is not done as a matter of May that year. The posts of laboratory manager urgency, the danger is public confidence in the and quality assurance officer were filled last year project will erode and therein lies another poten- on a permanent basis. The centre also took deliv- tially sad tale. ery last year of Galileo, a sophisticated new auto- mated processing machine. Minister of State at the Department of The Munster centre also participates in and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources benefits from national developments. A strategic (Mr. Gallagher): I thank the Deputy for raising plan is being finalised which will guide the activi- the matter. I am not aware of any search for or ties of the service nationally over the next few abandonment of a search for an anchor tenant in years and enable the service to meet the chal- the digital hub. The digital hub project, managed lenges of a changing environment and to maintain by the independent Digital Hub Development its position at the forefront of international devel- Agency, continues to be successful in attracting opments in transfusion medicine. digital industry tenants and operates a number of The Ta´naiste is being kept fully briefed about community, educational and promotional initiat- the position regarding developments at both the ives. The agency has been successful in expanding national centre and the Munster centre of the the cluster, with almost 50 companies employing IBTS. She has asked me to assure the Deputy more than 400 employees in the hub. that she reiterates the Government’s commitment The Deputy may be referring to the tendering to ensuring that the IBTS continues to have suf- process for a suitable developer for the digital ficient resources to maintain the highest possible hub’s regeneration role. While it is unfortunate standards in blood transfusion practice at all that there was not a successful outcome to the locations throughout the service. developer competition, we have an opportunity to move on and deliver the digital hub project in a Digital Hub Project. way that will give the stakeholders greater control over the project than the competition allowed. Mr. Durkan: I want to correct the wording of The Minister is in discussions with the agency to the matter I have raised. I should have said I deliver the property development project in a wished to raise the abandonment of the digital timely manner. When completed, the project will hub by the developer. Unfortunately, the anchor deliver 500,000 sq. ft. of enterprise, learning and tenant has left. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for educational, residential and retail space. allowing me to raise this matter. I do so because While the larger hub site is being developed, the digital hub project was supposed to deliver the agency is space constrained, given the high heavily in the area in which it is located. The pro- number of tenants. Parts of the former Media ject was announced with aplomb amid great Lab Europe building will be utilised by the hub expectation and the Taoiseach took a significant on a temporary basis. On the issue of the closure interest in it. However, the project is two years of MLE, the basic premises underlying the behind target, like many others, and the anchor Government commitment to research into the tenant has left, although a replacement is being digital media sector remain. Research in the field sought. An attempt was made to use the public of digital media is premised on a number of high private partnership model for this project but it level objectives, inter alia, establishing a scientific 1685 Job 20 April 2005. Creation 1686 and technological leadership for Ireland, stimul- pecking order. One would question when it will ating increased research and development invest- be upgraded. These projects have major con- ment in Ireland, attracting high quality inward sequences for industry in County Mayo. investment and human capital, supporting Contact Partners has offered alternative enterprise development in Ireland, supporting employment to many of its young workers at its high quality human capital formation in Ireland, Shannon facility. While a number are single, collaborating with Irish institutions and develop- many of them are settled with families and ment agencies and providing a forum for inter- uprooting them to Shannon is not an option. A national exchange and discussion. total of 100 employees have been severely Consultation with regard to the establishment affected by the decision to close. IDA Ireland has of a new research laboratory, the National Digital built a new business park in Castlebar in recognit- Research Centre, was recently concluded. It is ion of its designation as a hub town under the proposed that the NDRC will consider some simi- national spatial strategy but the authority is lar research to MLE but that there will be greater unable to attract industry to the town because of focus on sustainable research and more directive its inadequate infrastructure. research in a new business model. The Minister I do not seek a task force or target group will seek improved links to Irish universities and because in the past they have run into the ground improved corporate governance. The NDRC will and ended up going nowhere. I ask for a positive also be expected to develop more significant link- Government decision to invest quickly in infra- ages with the digital media cluster emerging in structure in the town. Once potential investors the hub. drive through the town, they are left with a nega- The consultation found a high level of support tive impression. Given the competition between for the proposal to continue public investment in towns throughout the State seeking to attract the digital media sector in Ireland with the estab- industry, this is a severe handicap for Castlebar. I lishment of the NDRC and there is likely to be a call on the Government to do something about it. satisfactory response to the recent competitive I refer to the debate a number of weeks ago. call for proposals. The Minister is absolutely con- Regarding the infrastructure operational prog- vinced the digital hub will continue to expand and ramme, there was a \716 million shortfall in develop in the years ahead. spending in the BMW region over the past four years. The Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, Job Creation. accepted that fact in the House on that occasion Ms Cooper-Flynn: It is with regret I raise this and the Minister for Finance accepted it on sev- matter following the announcement of the loss of eral occasions. Those figures are not disputed. 100 jobs at Contact Partners call centre in Castle- Deputy Killeen also accepted in the House that bar, County Mayo, earlier this week. Unfortu- night on behalf of the Government that towns in nately, this comes after the announcement of job the BMW region now have a very significant losses at Allergan a number of months ago and claim to future investment in infrastructure, at Volex last year. Job creation has been a bad particularly in 2005 and 2006. However, only last news story in Castlebar and County Mayo gener- week, in an article in The Irish Times, I was very ally. The recent jobs losses have had serious disappointed to see that the Minister for Com- ´ social and economic consequences for the town, munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy O even though it is designated a hub town in the Cuı´v, the only Minister we have in the west of national spatial strategy, as are Ballina and Ireland, tried to put some sort of gloss on spend- Westport. ing in the region by saying that there had been a Recently, the House debated the national 125% increase in money going on infrastructure development plan and, in particular, the under- since 2000. spend in the BMW region. I met IDA Ireland representatives subsequently to discuss job An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time is creation and what the authority was doing to concluded. attract industry into County Mayo but, disturbin- gly, I was informed that the greatest obstacle to Ms Cooper-Flynn: Given that we accept that attracting investors is the inadequate infrastruc- there is a deficit of more than \700 million on ture and, in particular, the quality of the N5. This infrastructure, that only goes to show that the is sad given that during the first four years of the level of investment in 2000 was so low that a NDP, 2000-04, only 54% of the money allocated 125% increase made very little difference. I ask to national roads in the BMW region was spent the Minister to give those points favourable con- compared with 121% in the south and east sideration, after which we might see an improve- regions. ment in the near future. The N5 is the main artery between Dublin and Mayo and it is severely deficient for more than Minister of State at the Department of 25 miles. The section between Ballaghaderreen Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. and Strokestown is unfit and unsafe to accommo- Killeen): I thank Deputy Cooper-Flynn for rais- date heavy traffic and the Castlebar to Westport ing this matter. I was disappointed to hear of the road, which was an NRA priority in the county recent decision announced on 18 April by Con- more than five years ago, has slipped down the tact Partners Communications Limited to close 1687 Airport Development 20 April 2005. Projects 1688

[Mr. Killeen.] in the county for the years 2001 to 2004. To date its Castlebar operation. That decision was in 2005, some \563,000 has been approved in sup- undoubtedly a setback to the area. port to the indigenous sector. That financial sup- The parent company decided that keeping the port will enable the companies to fund their plans Castlebar operation open is not a viable option. for innovation and new product development. It has decided to close Castlebar and consolidate Enterprise Ireland has also approved funding all business at its other Irish operation in for ten community enterprise centres in County Shannon. The company has stated that, oper- Mayo. Eight centres have now been completed, ationally, it is not practical for it to continue to including one in Castlebar. The incubator unit at incur the additional costs of operating from two the Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology in centres in Ireland when it could do so from only Castlebar received a capital grant of \1,280,000 in one. 2002 from Enterprise Ireland. A further \76,000 Current employment at Castlebar is 101 — was also approved towards the cost of a centre there are 50 people employed in Shannon — and manager. The main objectives of those incubation the company is planning final closure on 18 May centres are to support the development and next. I understand the staff is being offered the expansion of campus company activity and to option of relocating to Shannon. The offer will encourage and support the commercialisation of include a relocation package. Finding alternative research and development carried out in the third employment for the workers affected is a priority level sector. for FA´ S and the State development agencies. Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology is an FA´ S has already been in contact with the com- important local source of highly skilled graduates pany to offer its full range of support services. for industry in Castlebar and County Mayo. The The company indicated that it would reply to campus is currently working with local industry FA´ S at a later date. to develop specific courses to meet industry needs Achievement of balanced regional develop- in information and communications and medical ment is a central goal for IDA Ireland. The technologies. national spatial strategy provides a framework for I am encouraged by the most recent live regis- achievement of that goal through the prioritis- ter analysis figures for Castlebar and County ation of development and investment in the Mayo released by the Central Statistics Office. linked hub of Castlebar-Ballina and in other key The year-on-year figures for Castlebar show a towns so that the needs of foreign direct invest- decrease of 99 people, from 964 to 865. Overall, ment can be met. IDA Ireland is committed to the numbers on the live register for County Mayo the development of Castlebar and County Mayo stood at 5,297 in March 2005, down from 5,863 in and is actively promoting the county for new for- March 2004, a decrease of almost 10% in unem- eign investment. Since January 2004, there have ployment using that indicator. been seven first-time site visits to the county. I am satisfied the strategies and policies pur- In 2004 alone, four IDA Ireland-supported sued by the State development agencies, includ- companies committed themselves to research and ing the county enterprise board, together with development projects in County Mayo, with our ongoing commitment to regional develop- potential spending of approximately \5.5 million. ment, will continue to bear fruit in overseas That is a significant development essential for the investment, business development and increased development of high-quality employment in employment opportunities for both Castlebar and County Mayo. The current property investment County Mayo. The relevant State agencies will programme represents cumulative planned continue to make every effort to secure alterna- spending of approximately \11 million by IDA tive employment for the staff affected by the job Ireland in County Mayo for the four years ending losses at Contact Partners Communications in December 2005. Limited. IDA Ireland is investing significantly in the provision of planned and focused property sol- Airport Development Projects. utions in Castlebar and County Mayo. That is Mr. Kelleher: I welcome the opportunity to seen as an essential marketing tool in the process raise this issue. The debate is timely in view of of attracting potential new investors to the the fact that the three airport authorities were county. IDA Ireland is developing world-class before the Joint Committee on Transport last business and technology parks in Ballina and week to discuss progress regarding the State Air- Westport, as well as Castlebar. In Castlebar, a ports Act 2004, the break-up of Aer Rianta and new 16-acre, state-of-the-art business and tech- the distribution of capital costs of developments nology park has been fully developed and is being to the various airports. actively promoted by IDA Ireland for new FDI It is important to note that Cork Airport has projects. been very successful to date. There has been a Enterprise Ireland provides preferential fund- great increase in the throughput of passengers ing for companies with detailed export plans that recently. It has now reached 2.25 million passen- are expanding or establishing a business in gers per year, and projected growth puts that at Castlebar or County Mayo. Enterprise Ireland 3 million. It is therefore important that we recog- approved funding support of more than \5.8 mill- nise that Cork Airport, first and foremost, has ion and paid more than \4.8 million to companies marketed itself very effectively. It is a strategic 1689 Airport Development 20 April 2005. Projects 1690 part of the region and its development regarding because they see it as a threat. As a public rep- employment and foreign investment. When this resentative of the Cork area, I cannot accept that. issue was first debated, there was a strong objec- I am aware of the Minister of State’s strong tion from Aer Rianta to Cork Airport securing a attachment to Cork and to the airport in part- new terminal, and many local Deputies fought icular. I am sure he will listen to the views of with it to secure funding. The previous Minister public representatives from Cork, the chambers for Transport, Deputy Brennan, strongly sup- of commerce of the Cork region and the members ported that project. The assumption was that, at of the board of the Cork Airport Authority. the final stages, Cork Airport would get its new There is deep concern and anxiety in Cork about terminal but that the capital costs of providing it this matter. If we are serious about the break-up would not be passed on to it. of Aer Rianta, we need to tackle the many obsta- The Minister of State taking the debate, cles which exist. The Government needs to Deputy Callely, would have been very aware of ensure that it complies with company law and that, having also been a great supporter of Cork that the three airports are solvent. Issues relating Airport over the years. I know he will take a per- to the debt ratio and capital costs also need to sonal interest in this. Given that he is now in the be assessed. The commitments which were made Department of Transport, I hope he will under- should be honoured when business plans are sub- stand the concerns and anxieties of people in mitted to the Cabinet for its approval. Cork, particularly staff and management, who have gone to great efforts in recent years. Minister of State at the Department of Trans- Cork Airport has been a very profitable part of port (Mr. Callely): I thank my good friend, the Aer Rianta. When other developments were assistant Government Whip, Deputy Kelleher, going ahead in Aer Rianta, Cork Airport’s for raising this issue. I support the sentiments he finances funded some of them. With the shoe on expressed in respect of certain issues, such as the other foot, it is time it acknowledged that Cork Airport’s debt. I agree that we should not Cork Airport has not received fair investment stifle or kill off the potential for growth that exists over the year, and now that we have achieved the at the airport. The Deputy and some of his local new terminal, we should not be burdened with an colleagues are concerned about the growth of excessive debt that could kill its commercial Cork city and the Cork region. I look forward to future. When the previous Minister appointed the working with him to ensure that Cork develops board members to Cork Airport Authority, I gen- in the way we would like. uinely believe that they were also under the Like Deputy Kelleher, I congratulate Mr. Joe assumption that the capital costs would not be O’Connor and the staff of Cork Airport on the borne by the airport in the event of a break-up. I work they have done to facilitate the growth and know there is company law and that the State development of the airport which is one of the Airport Act requires that the transfer of assets fastest growing regional airports in Europe. The also be taken into account. However, whatever number of passengers passing through the airport measures are in Cork Airport’s business plans, has increased threefold over the last ten years, they should be adjudicated on the original from 800,000 passengers in 1994 to 2.25 million in Government policy assumption that it would be 2004. The airport is served by a number of sched- free of the debt for the development of the new uled airlines, including three Irish airlines, Aer terminal. I highlight that because I have genuine Lingus, Ryanair and Aer Arann. New routes have concerns about the thrust of a recent debate at a been added and a further significant increase in meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport, at services to and from UK and European desti- which representatives of the Dublin, Shannon nations is expected this year. Cork Airport was and Cork airport authorities were present. Some voted the best Irish airport in 2004 for the third people insisted that Cork Airport should intro- consecutive year in a poll conducted by the air duce business plans to fund the capital cost of the transport users committee of the Chambers of development of the terminal. That would be Commerce of Ireland. I heartily congratulate all unfair as it would represent a reversal of previous involved. Government policy when it was decided to sanc- The Cork Airport development project that is tion the development of the new terminal. under construction will, in effect, deliver a new Most people in Cork have a strong attachment landside airport. It represents the first major to the airport. They realise that it has a major upgrade of the airport since it was built in the impact on the financial vibrancy of the Cork 1950s. The new terminal building will accommo- region. Figures are available to indicate that the date a vast array of appropriate state-of-the-art airport is growing rapidly, mainly as a result of facilities. It is expected that the terminal will be strong and aggressive marketing of the airport by completed, as promised, by the end of 2005. I do its management and the commitment of its staff. not doubt that it will contribute significantly to The airport is used by a large swathe of the popu- the economic, social and cultural life of Cork. The lation outside Cork. Its catchment area will airport’s business park, part of which was increase as the roads infrastructure to the north designed by a horticulturist from Clontarf, has of Cork city improves. I am concerned that been developed in recent years. There are more officials from other airports might try to saddle than 20 buildings on the site which is a joint ven- Cork Airport with as much debt as possible ture arrangement involving the airport and the 1691 The 20 April 2005. Adjournment 1692

[Mr. Callely.] and Finance must be satisfied about the oper- private sector. I understand that it has been ational and financial readiness of the Shannon highly successful. and Cork airport authorities, including business It is clear that the outlook for Cork Airport is planning, before the assets of each of the airports positive. The current objective is to continue to can be vested in the authorities. Deputy Kelleher develop the business on a sound economic basis. also mentioned some technical company law and The Government’s policy is to restructure the accounting requirements in that context. three State airports, to give greater autonomy to The phased approach for the transfer of assets Cork and Shannon airports and to promote provided for in the State Airports Act 2004 is development in each region. The former Minister designed to cater for the fact that the distribut- for Transport, Deputy Brennan, enacted the able reserves available to the Dublin Airport State Airports Act 2004 to facilitate the restruc- Authority are insufficient to transfer assets to turing. In accordance with the 2004 Act, the both Shannon and Cork. The timing of the transfer of assets to one of the two new airport transfer of assets will depend on the availability authorities cannot take place earlier than 30 April of distributable reserves in Dublin. Under one of 2005. A phased approach thereafter will allow the options for the separation of Cork Airport, one of the new authorities to be vested first with the airport authority will have no bank debt at the time of the separation but it will have to enter the second being vested after sufficient distribut- into a finance lease with the Dublin Airport able reserves have been built up within the Authority in respect of a portion of its assets. Dublin Airport Authority. Cork Airport has benefited greatly from the The preparation of a comprehensive business major investment made in the development of its plan by the Cork Airport Authority is a central facilities. The finance lease option would allow element of the preparatory work being done in the Cork Airport Authority to take full responsi- advance of the separation of Cork Airport from bility for the management and operation of the the Dublin Airport Authority. Business plans are airport at as early a stage as possible and to drive being prepared by the Dublin and Shannon air- future growth using the platform provided by the port authorities. All three business plans will new facilities. I look forward to working with have to be assessed. It is expected that certain Deputy Kelleher in that regard. I hope my com- issues will have to be discussed between the auth- ments have been helpful. orities before any final decisions are made. As Deputy Kelleher said, the State Airports Act The Da´il adjourned at 9.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. 2004 requires that the Ministers for Transport on Thursday, 21 April 2005. 1693 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1694

Written Answers. age-related legislative provisions, it will be necessary to review the age-related provisions of the ———— Redundancy Payments Acts. This will have to be done prior to making legislative proposals for The following are questions tabled by Members submission to Government. In February 2003, the for written response and the ministerial replies Government approved the provision of a sum of received from the Departments [unrevised]. \1 million from the social insurance fund towards modernising and e-enabling redundancy pay- Questions Nos. 1 to 23, inclusive, answered ments. The redundancy payments section of my orally. Department is currently heavily involved in a project to modernise the existing system. Work Questions Nos. 24 to 62, inclusive, resubmitted. on this project is progressing on target and it is expected that the e-enabled redundancy IT Questions Nos. 63 to 72, inclusive, answered system will be ready for operation by the end of orally. May 2005. It will take a number of months for Proposed Legislation. both staff and members of the public to become totally familiar with the new system, and it is not 73. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for envisaged that any new project, including the Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will holding of a review of the age-related provisions bring forward legislation to remove the proof the Redundancy Payments Acts, will com- visions which disqualify those over the age of 66 mence in advance of such familiarisation. from the terms of the Redundancy Acts; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12178/05] Enterprise Strategy Group. Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. 74. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Killeen): Traditionally, the upper age limit for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the position eligibility for redundancy payment was the same regarding his consideration of the report of the as the pensionable age within the meaning of the Enterprise Strategy Group; if the Government Social Welfare Acts. In 1971 the upper age limit has specifically decided not to implement certain was 70, in line with the then old age pension age recommendations of the report; the recommend- of 70. This was revised downwards by the Redun- ations in respect of which decisions have been dancy Payments Act 1979 to 66 years, which was made; and if he will make a statement on the the new pensionable age set out in the Social matter. [12103/05] Welfare Act. The Redundancy Review Group report of July Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- 2002, which produced recommendations for the ment (Mr. Martin): The Government recently updating of statutory redundancy legislation, con- considered and endorsed the report of the high sidered that increasing the upper age limit of 66 level committee that was asked to look at the for redundancy qualification purposes would not most appropriate implementation arrangements be a priority in the short term if resources were for the recommendations of the Enterprise scarce. It could be argued, therefore, that the age Strategy Group, ESG. The Government is cap should remain unchanged to maintain con- broadly supportive of the policy directions sistency with the Unfair Dismissals Acts 1977 to recommended by the group, as underlined by its 2001 and the Employment Equality Act 1998. intention to implement, either in full or with The group recognised, however, that the labour force is becoming older and that participation in some modifications, most of the ESG’s recom- the labour force by older people, if desired, mendations. Details of the position in relation to should be facilitated. Accordingly, it was recom- these recommendations are set out in the action mended that consideration should be given in the plan which can be found on my Department’s medium term to removing the age cap or raising website at www.entemp.ie/enterprise/support/ the age cap in conjunction with similar changes to esgactionplan.htm. unfair dismissals, equality and social and family As regards recommendations, which it is legislation, as recommended by the Equality specifically not intended to implement, we have Authority. decided not to implement the recommendation On 18 July 2004, the upper age limit of 66 for that existing regulators for networked sectors bringing claims under the Unfair Dismissals Acts should be replaced by a new regulatory body 1977 to 2001 was removed by the Equality Act covering all networked sectors. In looking at 2004. However, the Unfair Dismissals Acts will still not apply to dismissed employees who, at the international experience, the Government date of dismissal, had reached the normal retire- remains to be convinced that regulatory amalga- ment age in that employment, that is if it is the mation on the scale proposed would be an policy in an employment to retire employees at a efficient model. For example, there is a danger certain age, then the new provisions would not that a single regulator could give rise to slower apply. decision-making and less focus on smaller sectors There are no plans at present to remove the compared with more dominant ones. This matter upper age limit in respect of statutory redun- is one for my colleague, the Minister for dancy. However, in the light of the evolution of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. 1695 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1696

[Mr. Martin.] Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- The Government decided to consider further ment (Mr. Martin): As I outlined in my answer the potential for the disaggregation of State pro- to the Deputy’s question of 24 February, the curement contracts for telecommunication ser- reduction of 5,000 in staffing levels as announced vices and my colleagues, the Ministers for by the Government in 2002 applies to all sectors Communications, Marine and Natural Resources of the public service. The Department of and Finance will be dealing with this matter. Enterprise, Trade and Employment and its agen- The central theme of the ESG’s recommend- cies, including FA´ S, are expected to contribute to ations concerns a strategic evolution to a more this reduction. In the case of FA´ S a reduction of competitive, innovative and knowledge centred 150 over a number of years from a staffing level economy. To help create quality and sustainable of almost 2,400 is considered appropriate and in employment we have to make sure Ireland con- the circumstances I do not propose to review tinues to be an attractive place in which to invest the situation. and from which to undertake increasingly profitable business. Part of this process involves listen- Proposed Legislation. ing to business and responding to its needs with 77. Ms McManus asked the Minister for greater agility and flexibility as regards policy Enterprise, Trade and Employment when the design and implementation. As a contribution to promised new legislation in regard to export con- this process I may invite one or more enterprise trols for military goods will be introduced; the members of the expert group to make a presen- main features of the legislation; and if he will tation on particular issues to the Government make a statement on the matter. [12091/05] meeting at which I will report on policy developments in the context of the ESG’s report. Minister of State at the Department of The ESG’s report makes a valuable contri- Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. M. bution to embedding strategies appropriate to the Ahern): The proposed new legislation, which was new realities and challenges facing the Irish econ- recommended by the 2004 Forfa´s review, will omy. The ESG’s policy prescriptions are partic- provide for the introduction of new controls on ularly relevant to my Department and the arms brokering and on the provision of certain enterprise support agencies that report to me. As types of technical assistance. Existing legislation part of the ESG’s implementation process, I will will also be updated to provide, inter alia, for be making twice yearly reports to Government increased penalties for non-compliance with on progress achieved in putting the Government export control legislation, for the statutory right approved ESG’s recommendations in place. for the inspection and audit, by officials from my Department, of companies that export military Employment Rights. goods, and for controls on the transfer of relevant 75. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for software and technology by electronic means. Enterprise, Trade and Employment his assess- Work on drafting of the new legislation has ment of the damage done to efforts to attract commenced and it is planned to publish the Bill migrant workers here by recent revelations of this year. The introduction of this new legislation exploitation; and if he will make a statement on will ensure that Ireland meets its EU and inter- the matter. [12057/05] national obligations in full and it will equally ensure that its procedures are not overly restric- Minister of State at the Department of tive as to make Ireland an unattractive location Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. by international standards for mobile activity in Killeen): Ireland’s immigration policy is one of legitimate industries. the most liberal in Europe. Accordingly, Ireland continues to be an attractive destination for Employment Levels. workers from both within and without the Euro- pean Economic Area, EEA. The EEA consists 78. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Minister of the 25 EU member states, Norway, Iceland, for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the Lichtenstein and, for this purpose, Switzerland. number of jobs created in indigenous enterprises Section 20 of the Protection of Employees in each of the past five years; the number lost in (Part-Time Work) Act 2001 provides that all the same period; and if he will make a statement employee protection legislation in Ireland applies on the matter. [12177/05] to those employed in the State, irrespective of Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- nationality or place of residence. Therefore, all ment (Mr. Martin): Full-time employment in Irish employee protection legislation applies to owned enterprises which are supported by the migrant workers. enterprise development agencies currently stands at 149,113; this represents a rise in employment Job Losses. of 5,000 over the five year period since the end 76. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for of 1999. In the international context, in which we Enterprise, Trade and Employment, further to operate as an open economy, this represents a Question No. 301 of 15 February 2005, if he will strong performance. More broadly, over the dec- review the policy; and if he will make a statement ade since 1995, there are 29,000 more employed on the matter. [12010/05] in agency supported indigenous companies. 1697 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1698

Enterprise development agency supported Irish companies — full-time employment.

2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Gains 20,494 15,520 15,354 14,066 13,141 Losses -11,446 -14,133 -17,664 -16,320 -13,958 Net 9,048 1,387 -2,310 -2,254 -817

The enterprise development agencies under my tematic support of new and existing firms at all Department have a comprehensive range of sup- stages of business development. ports to help firms become more competitive, expand in new markets and grow productivity. Company Closures. These are consistently assessed so that new prog- 79. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for rammes or refinements to help enterprise achieve Enterprise, Trade and Employment the amount sustainable competitive advantage and expand of funding due to the unsecured creditors of IFI; employment are implemented as required. if the secured creditors have been paid; if so, the Enterprise Ireland, which has the lead role in amount involved; when the unsecured creditors this area, offers a range of supports aimed at will be paid; and if he will make a statement on assisting Irish indigenous client companies to the matter. [12167/05] expand and compete in the international marketplace. The agency delivers a flexible set of sol- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- utions tailored to the needs of individual circum- ment (Mr. Martin): I understand that the liqui- stances of Irish enterprises. The financial dator has made considerable progress in realising supports offered by Enterprise Ireland place a the assets of the company and establishing the full strong emphasis on encouraging research and extent of its liabilities. He has indicated that he development and improving the competitiveness hopes to complete the liquidation process later of existing companies, supporting new company this year. At this stage, the main production sites start-ups and growing exports. Similarly, Shannon at Arklow and Cork remain the principal assets Development, which has responsibility for Irish yet to be realised. It is understood that contracts industry in the Shannon region, operates a have been signed for the sale of the Arklow site number of programmes aimed at both established and the sale is due to close in May. Discussions Irish industry and high potential start up compan- have also been taking place with a number of par- ies. The main focus is on the technological and ties in relation to the Cork site. It is a matter management ability of client companies, and on solely for the liquidator to determine whether to the ability of these companies to invest in and accept any particular offer made. exploit research and development. The city and I also understand that all claims from secured county enterprise boards, CEBs, have primary and preferential creditors have been paid at this responsibility for the promotion of indigenous stage. Reports by the liquidator on the progress industry in the micro-enterprise sector. Over of the liquidation covering the period to 7 Nov- 30,000 jobs have been created in indigenous com- ember 2004 indicate that the secured creditors panies supported by the CEBs since their estab- were paid almost \58 million while preferential lishment in 1993. creditors were paid nearly \10 million. In the context of developing indigenous The statement of affairs presented to the credi- enterprises, the opportunities that easier access to tors meeting in November 2002 estimated that world markets offer call for marketing support the amount due to unsecured creditors was \72.7 programmes to be delivered to develop the very- million. Of this, \34.5 million relates to share- different abilities firms need to acquire in holders loans which the shareholders, ICI and the developing external markets. Many of the most State have agreed, in principle, to subordinate in dynamic Irish firms have chosen to invest over- favour of the other unsecured creditors. While I seas to be closer to their customers and have do not have an up to date estimate of the actively developed global business relationships amounts due to unsecured creditors, I am aware to acquire specialist skills, access new techno- that significant additional liabilities to former logies or source lower cost inputs. employees in respect of contractual entitlements My Department is working closely with the to redundancy terms have been recognised by the development agencies and industry to develop liquidator. In addition, the liquidator has Irish enterprises’ capacity to succeed in a global accepted, in principle, that the trustees of the market by being more innovative, smarter, Richardson’s superannuation scheme, covering quicker and more flexible. Our main objective is the employees in Belfast, have an admissible to minimise any negative impacts which our claim on the liquidation but the quantum of that changing economy experiences, while also furth- claim remains to be established. Claims have also ering the national enterprise development been submitted by the trustees of the company’s agenda, which is making significant progress in pension schemes covering employees in this juris- sustaining Irish economic growth through the sys- diction and these are being considered at present. 1699 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1700

[Mr. Martin.] Enterprise, Trade and Employment if Ireland will The final position of unsecured creditors can be part of the EU like-minded group on the basis only be determined by the liquidator when all the of the UK position expressing concerns in assets of the company have been realised and all relation to economic partnership agreements; if liabilities established. The determination of any Ireland will outline EPA concerns in any inter- payments due to creditors of IFI is a matter solely national fora; and if he will make a statement on for the liquidator. the matter. [12199/05]

Trade Exports. 150. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the details of 80. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for the contact his Department has had with the Enterprise, Trade and Employment the value of Department of Foreign Affairs, particularly exports to Hong Kong; the outcome of recent Development Co-operation Ireland, in relation to meetings with the Ireland-Hong Kong Business economic partnership agreements; and if he will Forum; and if he will make a statement on the make a statement on the matter. [12193/05] matter. [12067/05] Minister of State at the Department of Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. M. ment (Mr. Martin): Exports to Hong Kong Ahern): I propose to take Questions Nos. 81 and amounted to \833 million in 2004, up 21% from 150 together. \ the 2003 total of 688 million. Hong Kong is an The economic partnership agreements, EPAs, important business partner for Ireland in Asia, are an integral part of the legally binding notably for services, and, in particular, for goods Cotonou Agreement. They are first and foremost en route to other locations in China. instruments to assist from a trade and develop- There is much potential for Irish companies ment aspect the smooth and gradual integration there. It is both a sophisticated market for a range of Asia Caribbean and Pacific, ACP, states into of our exports and a good location for the estab- the world economy. This will be done with due lishment of regional sales, distribution or logistics regard for their own political choices and their centres. Accordingly, I welcome the maintenance own development priorities. and reinforcement of business and other contacts EPAs combine trade and wider development between representatives of both places. issues in a unified framework while taking The Ireland-Hong Kong Business Forum is run account of the specific economic, social and by the Dublin Chamber of Commerce. It is part environmental circumstances of each regional of a worldwide network of such fora which is group and its component states. As trade is a organised with the assistance of the authorities in Community competence, it is the European Com- Hong Kong. As a private sector organisation, its mission which conducts the negotiations on the function is to enhance the relationship between EPAs between the EU and six regional groupings its members and counterparts in Hong Kong. of ACP states on behalf of member states. The Last February, the Minister of State at my Commission provides the Council with updates Department with responsibility for Trade and on the progress of the negotiations. Commerce, Deputy Michael Ahern, attended a Recently, in the context of the further pro- function organised by the Hong Kong Business gression of EPA negotiations, Commissioner Forum to mark the Chinese New Year. His Mandleson has indicated that he is putting the attendance there, and at other such events to EPA process under continuing review, with a new date, is indicative of Government support for the review mechanism to ensure that at every stage development of our trade and other relationships in the negotiations that the development dimen- with Hong Kong. sion is put first. The Taoiseach recently launched A Decade of I have read with interest the recent position the Asia Strategy 1999 to 2009. This recounts in paper that sets out the UK view on how best the some detail the importance the Government con- commitment to put development at the heart of tinues to place on the development of trade with the EPA negotiations can be best delivered. This eight specific Asian countries, including China, is designed to promote an open discussion on over the next five years. In the recent past there EPA issues particularly as the substantive nego- has been significant improvement in the level of tiations get under way. I agree with the basic our trade exports to Asia. The potential is great thrust of an approach to the EPAs which ensures for doing even better in the coming five years. that the needs and concerns of developing coun- Accordingly, while continuing to assiduously tries are taken adequately into consideration dur- attend to market opportunities and development ing the substantive phase of these negotiations. prospects elsewhere, the Government and its Ireland is actively following the developments agencies will be focusing in a strategic and coher- in the EPA negotiations process and will continue ent way on priority countries in Asia in the years to do so. More recently this matter was con- ahead. China will be central in that respect. sidered at the Article 133 committee and further discussions will follow. Ireland will insist that the International Agreements. Commission discharges its mandate in accordance 81. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for with the provisions of the Cotonou Agreement 1701 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1702 and in a manner which is sensitive to the part- The accident rates per 100,000 employees show a icular concerns of ACP states. steady decline in workplace accidents in Ireland There is close co-operation between all rel- as shown in the table below. evant Departments, including the Department of Nonetheless, the rate of deaths and injuries in Foreign Affairs, on questions relating to trade Irish workplaces is unacceptable. During 2003, 67 and development policy matters generally, people died and an estimated 20,900 people were including the EPA negotiations. absent from work for more than there days due to workplace injuries. In 2004, 50 people died in Health and Safety Regulations. workplace accidents and to date this year there have been 22 fatalities. 82. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for However, overall steady progress has been Enterprise, Trade and Employment the numbers made as the workplace fatality rate has fallen sig- of deaths and injuries reported arising from nificantly since 1998 when 70 people died in the industrial accidents in each year from 2000 to workplace. 2004; the further steps he intends to take to This reduction in deaths and injuries should be reduce the level of such accidents; and if he will seen against the background of an increase in the make a statement on the matter. [12110/05] workforce of almost a quarter of a million workers since 1998. Minister of State at the Department of Internationally, rapid increases in the work- Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. force usually lead to an increase in the fatal and Killeen): Under the Safety, Health and Welfare non-fatal injury rate due to the introduction of at Work Act 1989, the National Authority for inexperienced workers into the workplace. Occupational Safety and Health, known as the Thankfully, Ireland has been able to avoid such Health and Safety Authority, is the State body an increase. charged with overall responsibility for admin- The Health and Safety Authority has a dual istration, enforcement and promotion of work- role of enforcement and prevention. Under its place safety and health. Matters arising from this prevention strategy, published in 2004, the auth- responsibility are, therefore, a day-to-day func- ority approaches the issue of days lost to Irish tion of the authority. business through a range of measures and sup- Overall trends in workplace accidents are best ports at individual workplace, sector and national described by reference to the data from the occu- level. In addition, the authority partners other pational injury benefit claims published by significant organisations and the social partners Department of Social and Family Affairs, as the to bring home the message of prevention on both criteria for this benefit have remained the same human and economic grounds. The authority’s over the years. Although it shows an increase in programme of work for 2005 will further promote numbers of claims in recent years, this has to be this preventive emphasis in its work in addition read in the context of the economic expansion to continuing to inspect workplaces for com- that has taken place in Ireland in the last decade. pliance with legal requirements.

Workplace accidents for years 2000 to 2003.

Number of OIB claim accepted Number of Employees Rate per 100,000 employees

2000 11,995 1,355,600 885 2001 12,050 1,406,400 857 2002 12,280 1,440,000 852 2003 11,096 1,502,800 738 2004 figures unavailable as yet.

meet with former workers at the Irish Fertilizer Fatalities figures for years 2000 to 2004. subsidiary Richardson’s in Belfast who received inferior severance packages, particularly with Year Number of Fatalities respect to pensions following the closure of that plant, compared to their counterparts in other 2000 70 plants (details supplied) which closed at the same 2001 64 time. [12174/05] 2002 61 Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- 2003 67 ment (Mr. Martin): When Irish Fertilisers Indus- 2004 51 tries Limited went into liquidation, ICI and the State, the shareholders in IFI, established a special fund — while there was no legal obli- Company Closures. gation to do so — of almost \24.5 million to provide ex gratia severance payments to the former 83. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for employees. Payments from the fund were made Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will 1703 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1704

[Mr. Martin.] delivering direct assistance to indigenous manu- in accordance with the basis for distribution facturing companies is through the national determined by the trustee of the fund, which has enterprise development agency, Enterprise been endorsed by a ballot open to all employees. Ireland. Enterprise Ireland can assist those The basis for distribution was the same for all indigenous manufacturing companies that are, or employees regardless of location. at least have the potential to be, export focused. In addition, employees would have had certain I should point out that the decision to provide statutory redundancy and other entitlements. support to a client company is a day-to-day While these would have varied somewhat administrative matter for the agency concerned, reflecting the different arrangements in the two and not one in which I have a direct function. jurisdictions, I do not believe that this resulted Enterprise Ireland offers a set of sophisticated in any significant variances in overall severance solutions tailored to the needs of its individual packages received. client companies throughout all regions. Each As regards pensions, I am aware that company is assigned a development adviser who employees based in Belfast, who are deferred works with the company across all business func- pensioners of the Richardson’s pension fund, are tions through the business development model, likely to receive much reduced pension entitle- BDM, process. The BDM ensures that support ments and that the staff in question are, under- is applied to critical business functions, namely: standably, very aggrieved about this position. The strategy, finance, research and development, mar- specific financial position of the Richardson’s keting, human resources and production. Finan- fund appears to have arisen primarily from a cial and non-financial support is provided to com- combination of the statutory rules which cur- panies with a business strategy that encompasses rently apply on the winding up of a pension fund all elements required for business success. in the UK and a shortfall in the assets of the Enterprise Ireland also provides expertise to Belfast fund compared with its liabilities as a companies in the indigenous manufacturing sec- result of the fund trustees’ investment strategy tor who wish to expand through increased export coupled with a significant fall in the equities activity. Through its network of 33 international market. offices, Enterprise Ireland assists companies to The trustees of the Richardson’s scheme sub- create and implement successful strategies for mitted a claim on the liquidation in relation to market entry, development and growth. the shortfall in the scheme and I understand that Research and innovation, both product and the liquidator has now accepted, in principle, that process development, is critical to success in the the trustees have an admissible claim. However, increasingly global marketplace. Enterprise there are a number of factors that will need to be Ireland encourages sustained levels of research determined before the amount of the claim that and development activity through its RTI scheme is admissible can be established. In addition, I and research and development initiatives. understand that the UK Government has Research and development awareness campaigns announced proposals to deal with the issue of are also run to demonstrate the benefits of such pension shortfalls arising from insolvencies but I investment. Enterprise Ireland also fosters am not aware of the impact, if any, this may have research collaboration between companies and on the shortfall in the Richardson’s scheme. colleges through instruments such as the inno- Depending on the outcome of both these devel- vation partnership initiative. opments, there is the prospect of some alleviation To assist the drive towards competitiveness and in the position faced by the active members of productivity within manufacturing, Enterprise the Richardson’s scheme. Ireland promotes the adoption of new technology While I have the utmost sympathy for the at company level. Enterprise Ireland’s specialist plight of the members affected by the shortfall that has arisen in the scheme, I am satisfied that technologist team delivers mentoring and devel- the Irish Government does not have any obli- opmental supports to individual manufacturing gations in respect of the shortfall which the pen- companies. sion scheme faces and I do not see any basis on Enterprise Ireland’s competitiveness fund was which we could reasonably be expected to make set up to help small and medium enterprises over- good the shortfall involved. In the circumstances, come distinctive competitiveness difficulties. I regret that I do not consider a meeting with Under this fund, which closed in mid-2004, 97 \ former workers of IFI in Belfast is appropriate. applications, to the value of 11.9 million, were approved for companies predominantly operating Manufacturing Sector. in the traditional manufacturing sectors. This investment together with other Enterprise 84. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Ireland supports and services will have a con- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the action he siderable impact on improving competitiveness in is taking to develop the indigenous manufactur- these companies well into the future. I have ing sector of the economy; and if he will make a requested Enterprise Ireland to bring forward statement on the matter. [12011/05] proposals to address the issues and action items Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- outlined in the report of the Enterprise Strategy ment (Mr. Martin): The principal means of Group, which was endorsed by the Government 1705 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1706 in February 2005. It is expected that Enterprise seas, will be guilty of an offence and liable to Ireland will outline its approach in this regard as prosecution. part of the launch of its new strategy, scheduled to take place early next month. Enterprise Strategy Group. 86. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Employment Regulation. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the progress 85. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for on the implementation of the recommendations Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his atten- contained in the report of the Enterprise Strategy tion has been drawn to the call from the Irish Group, Ahead of the Curve; and if he will make Congress of Trade Unions for improved regu- a statement on the matter. [12175/05] lation of recruitment and placement agencies to 152. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for ensure protection of workers’ rights and avoid a Enterprise, Trade and Employment if and when race to the bottom on pay and conditions; if he he intends to implement the recommendation of intends to act on the call from ICTU; and if he the Enterprise Strategy Group regarding the will make a statement on the matter. [12085/05] establishment of two new divisions within Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise Ireland to focus on export marketing Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. and research and development and the incorpor- Killeen): As part of the Government’s commit- ation of county enterprise boards into Enterprise ments under Sustaining Progress, a review of the Ireland. [12198/05] Employment Agency Act 1971 is being carried Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- out by my Department. ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions As part of this review, my Department pub- Nos. 86 and 152 together. lished in May 2004, a discussion paper on the Shortly after the launch of the Enterprise 1971 Act and requested submissions from the var- Strategy Group’s report in 2004, the Government ious interests in the sector, including the social asked a high level committee under the chairman- partners. A total of nine submissions were ship of my Department to advise on the most received and were examined in detail by my appropriate means to progress implementation of Department. its recommendations. The Government recently My Department is currently finalising a policy considered and endorsed that committee’s report, paper which, following consultation with the which was broadly supportive of the policy direc- Office of the Attorney General on some of the tions recommended by the Enterprise Strategy details, will be circulated to the various interests Group. This is underlined by the Government’s for further comment in the coming weeks. In this intention to implement, either in full or with context, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions will modifications, most of its recommendations. The be requested to submit any views that it may have report makes a valuable contribution to embed- on this policy paper. Following this second round ding strategies appropriate to the new realities of consultations, my Department will draft the and challenges facing the Irish economy. heads of a Bill and seek Government approval to The report contains more than 50 recommend- have a Bill drafted by the Office of the ations, directed at a wide range of Departments Parliamentary Counsel to the Government. I and agencies and this adds complexity to ensuring hope to publish the Bill by the end of this year. a smooth flow of implementing actions. To As part of this review, I am currently consider- address this, I published an action plan to estab- ing that in future: employment agencies will be lish a focus on maintaining pace and momentum required to be registered with my Department in implementation activity across the range of rather than be licensed as at present; overseas bodies and stakeholders involved. As part of the agencies supplying workers to work in Ireland ESG’s implementation process I will be making will also be required to be registered with the twice yearly reports to Government on progress Department; employment agencies will be achieved in putting the Government approved required to comply with the terms of a statutory ESG’s recommendations in place. code of practice, which will set out in detail the As part of this process I also announced the practices and standards which agencies would be setting up of an Enterprise Expert Group com- expected to follow, this code will in particular, set prising four senior representatives from the out the employment rights of agency workers; a enterprise sector and relevant Secretaries Gen- statutory monitoring and advisory committee, eral from Departments. I will rely on the advice representative of all the various interests in the and analysis of the expert group on implemen- sector, will be established, this committee will tation developments to inform my report to oversee the statutory code of practice and make Cabinet and I will be making further announce- recommendations to me as the Minister with ments shortly about the composition of this responsibility for labour affairs in relation to group. revoking or suspending registration and-or the The central theme of the ESG’s recommend- prosecution of agencies which breach the code; ations concerns a strategic evolution to a more and any employer who recruits a worker from an competitive, innovative and knowledge centred unregistered agency, either from Ireland or over- economy. To help create quality and sustainable 1707 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1708

[Mr. Martin.] intention to implement, either in full or with employment we have to make sure Ireland con- modifications, virtually all its recommendations. tinues to be an attractive place in which to invest The report contains more than 50 recommend- and from which to undertake increasingly profit- ations, directed at a wide range of Departments able business. Part of this process involves listen- and agencies. The report makes a valuable contri- ing to business and responding to its needs with bution to embedding strategies appropriate to the greater agility and clarity. As a contribution to new realities and challenges facing the Irish econ- this process I may invite one or more enterprise omy. I intend that those recommendations members of the expert group to make a presen- addressed to my Department will inform the stra- tation on particular issues to the Government tegic development of enterprise support policies meeting at which I will report on policy devel- and their delivery to businesses. The ESG’s opments in the context of the ESG’s report. recommendations are an important part of the When I published details of the Government’s enterprise policy agenda and I recently published response to the ESG’s report, I also asked an action plan to give added impetus to their Enterprise Ireland, EI, to review the type of sup- implementation. As Minister for Enterprise, ports it provides to enterprise and its organis- Trade and Employment, I want to create the ational arrangements for this. In effect, I have most competitive and supportive environment asked EI to strategically refocus its business to possible for business to invest and create long- reflect the policy recommendations provided by term quality employment for the benefit of the Enterprise Strategy Group. This is not a society. review that can be undertaken quickly but I Regarding the ESG’s recommendation that the expect that I will be able to announce details boards of Forfa´s, IDA Ireland and Enterprise about the agency’s strategic developments within Ireland should have a number of directors in the next few weeks. This will include details common and, in particular, a common chair- about the business arrangements for providing person, I acknowledge the need for effective co- marketing and technology supports to enterprise. ordination between the enterprise development The Government has approved the establish- agencies. Nevertheless, I consider that any recom- ment of a new central co-ordination unit within mendation regarding better agency co-ordination Enterprise Ireland, which will provide city and should acknowledge the fact that Forfa´s has a county enterprise boards with central direction, statutory function to advise and co-ordinate IDA technical support and shared services. Dis- Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and Science Found- cussions have already commenced between my ation Ireland in relation to their functions. The Department and the agencies regarding the steps co-ordination issue extends beyond the three necessary to implement the ESG’s recommend- agencies mentioned in the recommendation and ation on this topic. a case can be made for including Science Found- ation Ireland and FA´ S in any such arrangements. 87. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for The chief executives of these agencies are also Enterprise, Trade and Employment the reason he represented on the Forfa´s board. Enabling a com- has rejected implementing the more radical mon chairperson for only some of the boards recommendations of the Enterprise Strategy under Forfa´s could present governance difficult- Group, including a single chairperson IDA ies and at this stage I would prefer to look at this Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and Forfa´s; and if he recommendation from a different perspective My will make a statement on the matter. [12074/05] Department will have discussions with the 110. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for development agencies with a view to identifying Enterprise, Trade and Employment if and when co-ordination problems that have arisen and he intends to implement the recommendation of devising means by which such might be dealt the Enterprise Strategy Review Group that IDA with. Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and Forfa´s operate As regards recommendations which it is under a common chairman. [12192/05] specifically not intended to implement, we have decided not to implement the recommendation Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- that existing regulators for networked sectors ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions should be replaced by a new regulatory body Nos. 87 and 110 together. covering all networked sectors. This is a matter for my colleague, the Minister for Communi- Shortly after the launch of the Enterprise cations, Marine and Natural Resources. The Strategy Group’s report in 2004, the Government Government has also decided that the ESG’s asked a high level committee under the chairman- recommendation regarding the disaggregation of ship of my Department to advise on the most State procurement contracts for telecommunica- appropriate means to progress implementation of tions services will be further considered by my its recommendations and the most suitable modes colleagues, the Ministers for Communications, of implementation. The Government recently Marine and Natural Resources and Finance. considered and endorsed that committee’s report, which was broadly supportive of the policy direc- Pharmacy Regulations. tions recommended by the Enterprise Strategy Group. This is underlined by the Government’s 88. Mr. English asked the Minister for 1709 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1710

Enterprise, Trade and Employment the reason he will put the employment permits system on a firm decided to refer proposals on the reform of the statutory footing. It will provide for greater pharmacy sector to the Competition Authority; accountability and transparency. The new legis- and if he will make a statement on the matter. lation will also provide additional protection for [12073/05] migrant workers. I am also satisfied that the 50% increase in the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- number of labour inspectors which I announced ment (Mr. Martin): In February 2005, the last week will have a strong impact. I have partic- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children circulated proposals for a Pharmacy Bill for the ularly asked that the additional inspectors con- implementation of the recommendations concentrate their efforts on sectors where there are tained in the report of the Pharmacy Review concentrations of migrant workers. Group. I have heard many positive comments in this Under the section 30(1)(c) of the Competition House and by other parties as to the operational Act 2002, the Competition Authority has a statu- capability of the labour inspectorate and this tory role in advising Government on proposals expansion of the inspectorate will enable it and for legislation in relation to their implications for its colleagues who also work on the employment competition. It was in this context that I sought rights compliance side of the Department to pro- the views of the authority. It subsequently provide an integrated service dedicated to ensuring vided me with detailed comments which I for- people get their entitlements. warded to the Ta´naiste. EU Directives. Departmental Studies. 91. Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Enterprise, 89. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Trade and Employment the steps he intends to Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his Depart- take to ensure that EU Directive 92/100/EEC, ment has completed its socio-economic strategy relating to the protection of the rights of authors, for Mitchelstown; if so, the findings of the is fully implemented in this country; and if he will strategy; the actions and policies which have been make a statement on the matter. [12112/05] formulated in view of the strategy findings; if not, Minister of State at the Department of when he expects it to be completed; and if he will Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. M. make a statement on the matter. [12165/05] Ahern): The EC directive on rental right and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- lending right and on certain rights related to ment (Mr. Martin): The socio-economic study in copyright in the field of intellectual property question was commissioned by Ballyhoura deals with a number of matters concerning Development Group in association with local authors and other copyright holders, including interest groups and not by my Department. I rules on the renting of protected materials and understand that a first draft of the study has been authors’ rights generally. Its key provisions, completed by the consultants appointed to carry including that of public lending right, were trans- out the work. The final draft is expected within posed into Irish law by the Copyright and Related the next few weeks. I am informed that the report Rights Act 2000. will then go on public display. The Deputy may recall that, in reply to a question from him of last December, it was indicated Employment Rights. that, while the 2000 Act created a public lending right in Irish law, Article 5.3 of the EC directive 90. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for allowed member states to exempt certain kinds of Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on establishments from the obligation to collect the whether his Department should instigate a major rental right levy in favour of authors. Ireland, in inquiry into the working conditions of migrant its transposition of the directive, effectively workers to ascertain whether exploitation exists exempted all public libraries from liability. Sub- on a wide scale or not; and if he will make a state- sequently, it became apparent that the European ment on the matter. [12059/05] Commission disagreed with our approach and Minister of State at the Department of notified us of its intention to take legal pro- Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. ceedings in the matter. Killeen): As the Minister for Enterprise Trade My Department has recently had informal con- and Employment stated recently in the Seanad, sultations with the European Commission and the experience most migrant workers have in has indicated that our intent is to prepare pro- relation to their employment in Ireland is a good posals for consideration by Government in this one. This is borne out by a high level of renewals matter. These proposals will relate to the putting of work permits and the steady flow of people in place of statutory provisions to provide for a from the new member states. I am satisfied that mechanism to yield payment to authors for the exploitation does not take place on a wide scale lending of copies of their works by public librar- but that, where it does, it needs to be stopped. ies. My Department is working closely with the I am satisfied that with the finalisation of the relevant Department responsible for the public preparation of the new Employment Permits Bill library system, that is, the Department of the 1711 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1712

[Mr. M. Ahern.] Aid for Industrial Projects. Environment, Heritage and Local Government, 93. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for on the matter. Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has Energy Costs. sought clarification from the EU Commission regarding State aid for industrial projects follow- 92. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for ing the decision in regard to Intel; the outcome Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his Depart- of discussions with the Commission; and if he will ment has carried out an analysis of the impact make a statement on the matter. [12101/05] of energy price inflation on businesses in various sectors here; and if his Department has carried 97. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for out any studies that simulate the effects of energy Enterprise, Trade and Employment the reason crises on these businesses. [12195/05] the proposed granting of aid to Intel Ireland in respect of Intel’s FAB 24-2 investment in its Irish Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- operation at Leixlip, County Kildare was allowed ment (Mr. Martin): Last year the National Com- to progress to such a stage that notification was petitiveness Council, NCC, identified electricity given to the European Commission, only to be costs as one area of concern in the context of withdrawn upon comment by the Commission overall cost competitiveness in the economy. In about its legality; and if he will make a statement its Statement on Prices and Costs 2004, the NCC on the matter. [12066/05] noted that in the three years to September 2004 electricity prices for industry have increased by Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- approximately 40%. ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions My Department has carried out a review of the Nos. 93 and 97 together. issues from an enterprise policy perspective. The The announcement of the proposed aid to Intel review looked at the sensitivity of industrial and on 19 May 2004 pointed out that the grant was services sectors to electricity costs as a business subject to EU approval. The proposed aid was cost. The findings are contained in a study, which required to be notified to the European Com- is published on my Department’s website mission for approval under the multisectoral at http://www.entemp.ie/publications/trade/2005/ framework on regional aid for large investment electricitymarket.pdf. projects. Under this framework, which came into The study focused primarily on the two princi- general effect on 1 January 2004, large investment pal concerns of industry, namely, the supply capa- projects are generally not eligible for investment city of the electricity market and the current unit aid where, as in the case of Intel, the aid recipient cost of electricity. While my Department has not accounts for more than 25% of the sales of the carried out a simulation exercise in the event of product concerned. However, the framework also an energy crisis, the paper examined the price provides that investment aid for such cases will sensitivity of the enterprise sector to electricity be authorised where the company concerned prices. The study found that within manufactur- creates, through genuine innovation, a new prod- ing industries such as the pharmaceutical, elec- uct market. Intel, IDA Ireland and my Depart- tronics and the food, beverage and tobacco sec- ment were satisfied that the company’s proposal tors there are a number of firms, which are demonstrated that it would create a new product particularly sensitive to increases in the unit cost market through genuine innovation. Intel is one of electricity. In terms of the service industry, of the most innovative companies in the world tourism and research and development were also with a track record, stretching over several dec- sensitive to electricity tariff increases. ades, of creating new products and markets. In relation to the electricity market, the Mini- However, the European Commission took a ster for Communications, Marine and Natural different view, based on a very narrow interpreta- Resources has announced plans for a review of the sector. This review will examine the insti- tion of the provision on which we were relying. tutional arrangements and market structures and As this was the first case in which this provision assess their appropriateness. The impetus for this was applied, we had no reason to believe that the review stems from the perceived difficulties relat- European Commission would take such a restric- ing to ESB’s dominance and the need to attract tive view. new entrants and develop competition in the sec- The Government’s decision to withdraw the tor. On Monday, 21 February 2005, the Minister notification, having consulted Intel, should not be for Communications, Marine and Natural interpreted to mean that we agree with the Com- Resources, formally invited tenders from Euro- mission’s view. The formal investigation which pean and Irish consultancy firms to carry out this the Commission proposed to hold would have review. I understand that the Minister will entailed the Commission providing certain details announce the outcome of the tender process in of the company’s proposal to third parties includ- the near future. ing, in particular, Intel’s competitors. As the My Department has forwarded its study on Commission had informed us that it did not Ireland’s electricity market to the Department of believe it would approve the proposed aid, even Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, after this procedure, the company’s reluctance to as an input to its review of the electricity sector. participate in a pointless exercise and risk 1713 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1714 exposure of its business secrets was under- Trade and Employment. Accordingly, I expect standable. early appointments to be made to ensure the full In relation to the implications of this case for staff complement is operational as soon as aid for industrial projects generally, the vast possible. majority of inward investment projects do not need to enter into this approval process. For the Year Inspections/Visits Prosecutions very small number that do, each project has to be Initiated examined in the context of its individual elements and the same issue would only arise if the com- 2002 8,323 25 pany concerned has a market share of more than 2003 7,168 20 25% in relevant product markets. While IDA 2004 5,160 14 Ireland considers the outcome of the Intel case to 2005 1,230 1 be unhelpful in the progress of investment projects of this size, it does not see this having an overall directly negative impact on Ireland’s National Minimum Wage. ability to attract foreign direct investment. 96. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Banking Sector. Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on claims that the increase in the minimum wage will 94. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for damage competitiveness and increase consumer Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his Depart- prices; and if he will make a statement on the ment has studied the likely effects of the new matter. [12062/05] rules on cross-border banking, which are due to come into effect in 2008, on competition in the Minister of State at the Department of banking sector here; and if he will make a state- Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. ment on the matter. [12190/05] Killeen): The parties to the mid-term review of Part Two of Sustaining Progress — Pay and the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Workplace “agreed to request the Labour Court ment (Mr. Martin): I understand that the new to review the National Minimum Wage and to rules are part of the ongoing development of a make a recommendation to the Minister for single euro payment area, which will facilitate Enterprise, Trade and Employment in accord- cross-border payments such as credit transfers ance with the National Minimum Wage Act, and direct debit payments. As such, the new rules 2000, to apply with effect from 1 May, 2005”. are primarily the responsibility of the Minister In February last the Labour Court recom- for Finance. mended that the minimum wage should be With regard to the effect of the rules on com- increased to \7.65 with effect from 1 May 2005. petition, I have not undertaken any study. Subsequent to receiving this recommendation, However, I hope that the rules will enhance com- the Economic and Social Research Institute, petition by easing access to markets and facilitat- ESRI, was requested to undertake an assessment ing the payment by consumers for products and of the increase recommended by the Labour services across the EU. Court. In its assessment, the ESRI concludes that the Workplace Inspections. increase in the minimum wage to \7.65 can be 95. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for implemented without a significant negative Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number impact on employment and competitiveness. of inspections carried out by the labour inspector- On the issue of consumer prices, the ESRI has ate and the number of prosecutions initiated by calculated that the increase in the minimum wage \ the inspectorate in respect of the years 2002, to 7.65 might add something in the order of 0.15 2003, 2004 and to date in 2005; when the prom- percentage points to the rate of consumer price ised additional 11 staff, which he announced on inflation. 12 April 2005, will be recruited and in place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Question No. 97 answered with Question [12086/05] No. 93. Minister of State at the Department of Trade Union Recognition. Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Killeen): The number of workplace inspections- 98. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for visits undertaken by the labour inspectorate — Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he is satis- during and after normal business hours — and fied that there are sufficient legal safeguards in prosecutions initiated in respect of the years 2002, place to ensure the right of all employees to be 2003, 2004 and to date in 2005 is set out in the represented by a trade union; if he intends to following tabular statement. legislate for collective bargaining arrangements in accordance with the principles of the ILO and Immediately on the announcement on 12 April enshrined in the European Convention on 2005 of the additional staff, steps were taken to Human Rights and the proposed EU constitution; source staff initially from within the existing staff and if he will make a statement on the matter. complement of the Department of Enterprise [12087/05] 1715 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1716

Minister of State at the Department of National Irish Bank Financial Services Limited Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. presented their report to the High Court on 12 Killeen): The system of industrial relations in July 2004. The report was subsequently pub- Ireland is essentially voluntary in nature. For sit- lished. The court ordered that a copy of the uations, however, where it is not the practice of report be referred to several relevant authorities, an employer to engage in collective bargaining including the DPP. negotiations and where the internal procedures One investigation under section 14 of the Com- normally used by the parties have failed to panies Act 1990 was completed in 1998. The resolve a dispute, the parties may avail of pro- report on this was referred to the DPP. cedures set out in the Industrial Relations One investigation was undertaken under (Amendment) Act 2001, as amended by the section 59 of the Insurance Act 1989. The report Industrial Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) on this was referred to the DPP as well as to the Act 2004 and supported by the enhanced code inspectors who undertook the section 8 investi- of practice on voluntary dispute resolution. These gation into that company. procedures contain two distinct strands for sett- Eleven investigations were initiated by the ling the issues in dispute — a voluntary procedure Minister under section 19 of the Companies Act and a fall-back legislative procedure. 1990. Six of these have been concluded. Of the I have no plans to bring forward new legislation six investigations completed, two of the reports in this area. were referred to the DPP. A number of summary Departmental Inquiries. prosecutions have since been successfully concluded in one case. One report provided an input 99. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for into the successful application to the High Court Enterprise, Trade and Employment the position for the appointment of inspectors under section 8 in regard to each of the inquiries being carried while the fourth report was passed to the relevant out by or on behalf of his Department; if he will High Court inspectors. One report was completed give a projected date for the conclusion of each in September 2002 and a further report was com- such investigation; the inquiries in respect of pleted in March 2003. Both reports have been which reports have been referred to the DPP; and referred to the Director of Corporate if he will make a statement on the matter. Enforcement. [12106/05] Two of the 11 section 19 investigations were 105. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for held up in legal appeals. These inquiries are now Enterprise, Trade and Employment if, in regard the responsibility of the Director of Corporate to the direction issued to an authorised officer to Enforcement. cease his inquiries into three companies being In relation to the three remaining section 19 carried out under section 19 of the Companies investigations, I refer Deputies to my answers of Act, 1990, he will say if the authorised officer has 24 February 2005 in reply to several questions on now completed his reports; if he has received this matter. I am still considering the matter with these reports; if so, the action it is intended to the object of ensuring that the results of the auth- take arising from the reports; and if he will make orised officer’s investigations are made available a statement on the matter. [12108/05] to the relevant authorities, as quickly as possible, 127. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for for any action they consider appropriate. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the costs The costs incurred since 1997 on company incurred by the State, at the latest date for which investigations initiated by or on behalf of my figures are available, arising from the various Department currently amount to approximately inquiries instigated by or on behalf of his Depart- \10.9 million. This amount does not include the ment; the element of these costs which have been salary costs of Civil Service staff working on a recovered from any of the other parties involved; number of these investigations or the legal costs and if he will make a statement on the matter. which are primarily being borne by the Vote of [12107/05] the Office of the Chief State Solicitor. Of the \ \ Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- 10.9 million expended, 1.6 million relates to ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions section 19 investigations by authorised officers \ Nos. 99, 105 and 127 together. and the remaining 9.3 million was incurred by Sixteen investigations into company law High Court inspectors appointed under section 8 \ matters were initiated by my predecessor in the — 5.8 million in the case of National Irish Bank period since 1997. Limited-National Irish Bank Financial Services In three cases, the High Court appointed, on Limited and \3.5 million in the case of Ansbacher an application by the Minister, inspectors under (Cayman) Limited. section 8 of the Companies Act 1990. The inspec- The question of recovering costs from the tors appointed to Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited section 8 investigations does not arise until such presented their report to the High Court on 10 time as the inspectors complete their investi- June 2002. The report was subsequently pub- gations. In the case of the Ansbacher inquiry, the lished and referred to the DPP. The inspectors High Court proceedings taken by the State to appointed to National Irish Bank Limited and recover the costs of the inquiry were settled out 1717 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1718 of court for the sum of \1.25 million in favour of about specific agencies are followed up. My the State. Department is not responsible for what may hap- In the case of National Irish Bank Limited- pen outside the State where a recruitment agency National Irish Bank Financial Services Limited, in another country may be involved. the court ordered that National Irish Bank pay The labour inspectorate has been in discussions the full costs of the investigation. The costs of the with Irish Ferries regarding the recent case investigation have been borne by the Department involving a Filipino worker and inquiries are of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and I under- ongoing. stand that Department has requested the Chief State Solicitor’s office to commence the process Community Employment Schemes. of recovering the full costs of the investigations 101. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for from the bank. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number Section 19, as originally enacted, did not proof persons on CE places at 1 January 2003, 1 vide for the recoupment of costs. This has now January 2004, 1 January 2005 and the anticipated changed with the enactment of the Company Law numbers at 31 December 2005; if his attention has Enforcement Act 2001. been drawn to the difficulties faced by many com- Employment Rights. munity and voluntary groups because of the shortage of community employment places; if 100. Ms Burton asked the Minister for changes are planned with regard to eligibility to Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his atten- participate in the scheme; and if he will make a tion has been drawn to the recent case involving statement on the matter. [12096/05] a person (details supplied) who had been employed as a beautician on an Irish Ferries ves- 126. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for sel at a rate of \1 per hour, having been recruited Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he intends through a foreign based employment agency; the to extend the maximum period permitted for par- steps he intends to take to prevent such exploi- ticipating in community employment schemes; tation of workers; and if he will make a statement and if he will make a statement on the matter. on the matter. [12084/05] [12179/05] 136. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for 139. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the action his Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number Department intends to take against Irish Ferries of persons employed in community employment following the revelation that it paid sub-minimum schemes; his plans to extend and improve the wage levels to a person (details supplied); and if schemes to increase participation; the other prog- he will make a statement on the matter. rammes and services, if any, in addition to the [12060/05] community employment schemes, his Depart- ment operates to help the long-term unemployed 234. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for to improve their skills and rejoin the workforce; Enterprise, Trade and Employment the extent to the success of these programmes, including the which he monitored pay and working conditions community employment schemes, in returning of non-nationals working here but employed the long-term unemployed to the open labour through agencies such as in the recently reported market for the years 2002, 2003 and 2004; and if case at Irish Ferries; and if he will make a state- he will make a statement on the matter. ment on the matter. [12490/05] [12166/05] Minister of State at the Department of 219. Mr. Healy asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will Killeen): I propose to take Questions Nos. 100, immediately reverse the cutbacks by his Depart- 136 and 234 together. ment of FA´ S community employment schemes The labour inspectorate of my Department is and remove the lifetime capping on participants responsible for monitoring certain employment of these schemes. [12284/05] conditions for all categories of workers in Ireland, including immigrant workers. The inspectorate Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- operates without any differentiation with regard ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions to worker nationality as statutory employment Nos. 101, 126, 139 and 219 together. rights and protections apply to immigrant FA´ S employment programmes, which com- workers in exactly the same manner as they do to prise community employment, CE, social econ- native Irish workers. Inspectors pursue alle- omy, SE, and job initiative, JI, will provide over gations of worker mistreatment and when evi- 25,000 places in 2005. I am informed by FA´ S that dence of non-compliance with the relevant the number of participants on CE was 24,991 in employment rights legislation is found, the January 2003, 19,848 in January 2004 and 22,194 inspectorate seeks redress for the individual or in January 2005. There are currently about 21,600 individuals concerned and, if appropriate, a pros- persons participating on CE, 1,970 on SE and a ecution is initiated. further 1,920 participants on JI. Licensed employment agencies in the State are On foot of a review of FA´ S employment regulated by my Department and any complaints schemes, which included detailed consultations 1719 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1720

[Mr. Martin.] or her to obtain and maintain employment. In with the social partners, I decided that with effect 2004, approximately 1,000 clients attended 70 from 10 November 2004 the three year cap would pathways programmes nationally. The range of be removed for CE participants aged 55 or over. initiatives in place are continually under review This category of participants is now eligible to to ensure a positive outcome for participating participate on CE for a maximum of six years. clients. The extension of the participation period from three to six years for over those over the age of Insurance Industry. 55 should ensure that there will be sufficient 102. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for clients to fill the available places. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number I should add that the continuation of ringfenc- of the 47 recommendations in the Competition ing and prioritisation for the essential services of Authority’s final report and recommendations in child care, health related services and drugs task regard to competition in the non-life insurance force clients and the extended participation on market that will be implemented by the end of CE by older workers will help to secure the conti- 2005; the recommendations he intends to nuity of community services generally. implement in that timeframe; and if he will make ´ I am informed by FAS that the rate of pro- a statement on the matter. [12064/05] gression to employment for CE participants was 41% in 2002 and 46% in 2003. An additional 128. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for 7.5% of participants went on to further training Enterprise, Trade and Employment his response or education in 2003. JI participants progressed to the recently published report of the Compe- to employment at a rate of 61% in 2002 and 50% tition Authority into the insurance sector; and if in 2003. A further 9% of JI participants took up he will make a statement on the matter. further training of education courses in 2003. Pro- [12100/05] gression rates for 2004 are not yet finalised. These Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- progression rates highlight the strong contri- ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions bution of CE and JI programmes in assisting very Nos. 102 and 128 together. disadvantaged persons to take up employment in The 47 recommendations contained in the the open labour market. report of the Competition Authority are designed ´ In addition to FAS employment programmes, to make the insurance market in Ireland more a range of initiatives are in place to assist the open, transparent and competitive. Accordingly, I reintegration of long-term unemployed persons welcome the authority’s findings and conclusions. and disadvantaged groups into the open labour However, responsibility for the implemen- market. These include — the national employ- tation of the majority of the recommendations ment action plan preventative process, which lies with the Department of Finance and the Irish entails the systematic engagement and referral by Financial Regulatory Services Authority. In this the Department of Social and Family Affairs of regard I have recently written to my colleague, persons six months on the live register to FA´ S for the Minister for Finance, asking how he plans to interview. In the period January 2003 to progress the implementation of the recommend- December 2004, 96,000 clients have been engaged ations in his area. under this process. The high supports process is a The remaining recommendations are directed flexible measure designed to assist employment at the Departments of Transport and Justice, services officers in implementing a range of Equality and Law Reform, the Motor Insurers responses for clients who are experiencing major Bureau of Ireland and the Courts Service. I am barriers in progressing from unemployment to also writing to the relevant Ministers and bodies the workforce. A budget of up to \2,200 per per- concerned in the context of progressing matters. son is available for this purpose. The high sup- Given the importance of an open and competi- ports process commenced in 2003 and assisted tive insurance sector to consumers, businesses 336 clients in that year. A further 370 clients and the economy as a whole, I hope that each availed of support in 2004. Gateway for women of the appropriate bodies will take the necessary is one of the ways in which FA´ S is adopting more measures to implement the recommendations as flexible methods of delivering services to make it quickly as possible. easier for women to return to work. It is a tailored response to individual needs and focuses on Departmental Agencies. addressing concerns and difficulties experienced by women returnees such as flexibility of training 103. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for and accessibility of services. At the end of 2004 Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he intends to carry out a review of the performance of all approximately 2,000 women had taken part in this enterprise development agencies in the State; and initiative. The pathways programme is a two- if he will make a statement on the matter. week group guidance programme for [12171/05] disadvantaged FA´ S clients identified under the preventative process. The aim of the programme Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- is to identify the most appropriate development ment (Mr. Martin): The Review of Industrial Per- pathway for each participant that will assist him formance and Policy 2003 carried out detailed 1721 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1722 analysis of Irish industrial performance and and if he will make a statement on the matter. policy over the previous decade, including the [12180/05] performance and role of the enterprise development agencies over that period. While the review Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. made no specific recommendations relating to ´ future policy or the role of the agencies, the Killeen): The total number of participants in FAS analysis contained therein informed the work of training schemes is 32,296. the Enterprise Strategy Group whose report was published in July 2004. This report made a Question No. 105 answered with Question number of recommendations relating to the No. 99. future role and activities of the enterprise agencies. Company Closures. In this regard many of the Enterprise Strategy 106. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Group’s recommendations will have a strong Enterprise, Trade and Employment the position influence on how the enterprise development regarding the liquidation process for Irish Fertil- agencies change and improve their client services. izer Industries; if he is satisfied that all possible There, the ESG’s report makes a valuable contri- steps have been taken to protect the interests of bution to embedding strategies appropriate to the former employees of Irish Fertilizer Industries new realities and challenges facing the Irish econ- who lost their jobs as a result of the liquidation omy. In this context the ESG’s report contains of the company; if he has information as to the more than 50 recommendations, directed at a proportion of pension entitlement that former wide range of Departments and agencies. This workers, including those in Northern Ireland, are adds a certain complexity to ensuring a smooth likely to receive; and if he will make a statement flow of implementing actions. To address this I on the matter. [12089/05] recently published an action plan, which was approved by Government in February of this Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- year, to establish a focus on maintaining pace and ment (Mr. Martin): I understand that the liqui- momentum in implementation activity across the dator has made considerable progress in realising range of bodies and stakeholders involved. As the assets of the company and establishing the full part of this process I will be making twice yearly extent of its liabilities and that he hopes to com- reports to Government on progress achieved in plete the liquidation process later this year. At putting the Government approved ESG’s recom- this stage, the production sites at Arklow and mendations in place. Cork remain the principal assets yet to be A number of the proposals set out in the action realised. It is understood that contracts have been plan are directed specifically towards the oper- signed for the sale of the Arklow site and that it ations, roles and organisational structure of the is hoped that the sale will close in May. The liqui- enterprise agencies and these are being acted dator is also engaged in discussions with a upon at present. As such there are no plans to number of parties who have expressed an interest carry out a formal review of the enterprise agen- in acquiring the Cork site. It is a matter solely for cies’ performance in the immediate future. the liquidator to determine whether to accept any Performance review, in a variety of manners, particular offer made. is an ongoing priority for my Department. For The State has already made a significant finan- example, last year my Department completed an cial contribution to assist the former employees Expenditure Review of Enterprise Ireland’s of Irish Fertiliser Industries. Following the Overseas Office Network as well as an Expendi- decision by the board of IFI to put the company ture Review of IDA Ireland’s Property Prog- into liquidation, ICI and the State, the share- ramme which were both in-depth and exhaustive holders in IFI, established a special fund — while reviews that involved cross-agency and depart- there was no legal obligation to do so — of almost mental input. Further reviews are taking place — \24.5 million to provide ex gratia severance pay- earlier this year my Department requested both ments to the former employees of IFI. Payments IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland to conduct a from the fund were made in accordance with the full review of their respective regional develop- basis for distribution determined by the trustee of ment programmes to be finalised by the end of the fund, which has been endorsed by a ballot this year. Furthermore, my Department has also open to all employees. signalled to IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland In addition, the liquidator has admitted, as its intention to require them to undertake a com- unsecured creditors in the liquidation, claims plete suite of elementary reviews for each of their from the employees of the company to have expenditure programmes over the next three entitlements in respect of the voluntary severance years. terms traditionally paid by the company. ´ However, the dividend payable to the workers FAS Training Programmes. concerned, if any, can only be determined when 104. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for all the assets of the company have been realised Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number and all liabilities established. It must be empha- of people participating in FA´ S training schemes; sised that the amount, if anything, to be paid in 1723 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1724

[Mr. Martin.] by Enterprise Ireland between 1989 and 2004 due course in respect of such claims is a matter failed; if he is concerned at this rate of failure; his solely for determination by the liquidator. plans to take action to reduce the failure rate; and As regards pensions, I understand that the two if he will make a statement on the matter. main schemes covering employees in the [12102/05] Republic have sufficient funds to meet all the entitlements provided under the schemes. While Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- I understand that the schemes may not be in a ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions position to provide some additional discretionary Nos. 107 and 116 together. benefits that members had hoped to receive, it The statistics referred to arise from the Review would appear that the payment of such benefits of Enterprise Ireland Supported High Potential would always have been conditional on sufficient Start-ups 1989-2004 conducted by Enterprise funding being available to meet the costs Ireland. The report is an internal report of involved. I understand that the trustees of the Enterprise Ireland and as such is an operational schemes involved have submitted claims to the issue for the agency and not one in which I have liquidator in relation to this position and that he a direct function. is considering the validity of these claims at Enterprise Ireland has informed me that the present. report is a review of the performance of 470 I am aware that employees based in Belfast, Enterprise Ireland supported high potential start- who are deferred pensioners of the Richardson’s up companies, HPSUs, that started between 1989 pension fund, are likely to receive much reduced and June 2004. Of the 470 HPSUs that started in pension entitlements. The specific financial posi- this period, 357 — 76% — firms are still trading tion of the Richardson’s fund appears to have as EI clients 21 — 4% — were taken over and 92 arisen primarily from a combination of the statu- — 20% — are closed. In other words 80% of the tory rules which currently apply on the winding companies are still trading in one form or up of a pension fund in the UK and a shortfall in another. Enterprise Ireland considers that the the assets of the Belfast fund compared with its failure rate is low by most standards given the liabilities as a result of the fund trustees’ invest- normal risk of starting a new business. ment strategy coupled with a significant fall in the The average number of start-ups per year has equities market. also increased significantly between 1989 and I understand that the liquidator has accepted, 2004. It has risen from an average of 17 new in principle, that a claim on the liquidation, sub- HPSUs per year in the 1989 to 1996 period to an mitted by the trustees of the Richardson’s average of 58 HPSUs per year in the period 2001 scheme, is admissible. However, the amount of to 2003. During 2004, 65 new HPSUs were started claim has yet to be established while the amount and supported with a projected employment in that might be recovered from the liquidation in these businesses of 1,900 within three years, the due course will depend on the dividend rate for majority of jobs in which are high skilled posi- unsecured creditors generally. In addition, I tions. The review also found that there has been understand that the UK Government has no appreciable increase in the failure rates, announced proposals to deal with the issue of despite the substantial increase in the volume of pension shortfalls arising from insolvencies but I start-ups. am not aware of the impact, if any, this may have The economic importance of HPSUs is not on the shortfall in the Richardson’s scheme. underestimated by Enterprise Ireland. In 2003, Depending on the outcome of these devel- the 357 companies still trading as EI clients had opments, there is the prospect of some alleviation a combined direct employment of 7,458 people in the position faced by the active members of — the majority of positions in which were highly \ the Richardson’s scheme. skilled jobs — and total sales of 979 million. This While I have the utmost sympathy for the represents a very substantial positive economic plight of the members affected by the shortfall impact. that has arisen in the scheme, I am satisfied that EI will not be complacent and will seek to the Irish Government does not have any obli- further increase the success rate of HPSUs. For gations in respect of the shortfall that the pension half of those HPSUs that fail, this failure occurs scheme faces. within the first three years. This “valley of death” period has been highlighted as an area where EI Job Creation. is to devote more resources and effort, including: a team based approach to bring the extensive 107. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for experience and a range of expertise to bear at this Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on critical stage; a joint approach by EI staff in whether the 20% failure rate of start-up compan- Ireland and overseas to assist early stage companies can be lowered; and if he will make a state- ies to identify and secure key customer reference ment on the matter. [12075/05] sites; a more direct and supportive approach to 116. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for assisting companies to develop and augment their Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his atten- management team and board capabilities; and a tion has been drawn to the recent report showing milestone funding based approach to the pro- that one-fifth of all start-up companies supported vision of EI funding to an increased number of 1725 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1726 the start-ups phasing funding in line with Enterprise, Trade and Employment the response realistic targets. in policy terms of his Department to the increase 108. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for in female labour force participation; and if he will Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number make a statement on the matter. [12068/05] of tours taken into the north-west region, into Minister of State at the Department of north-east Donegal in particular, by the IDA in Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. the past two years; and if he will make a state- Killeen): Arising from the success of the Irish ment on the matter. [12008/05] economy over the last decade there has been a considerable increase in the numbers in employ- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment and thus the demand for labour. This ment (Mr. Martin): During the years 2003 and demand has been partly met by increased partici- 2004 IDA client companies made a total of 39 pation, particularly by women, in the labour first time visits to the north-west region. Of this force. number, 14 visits were made to Letterkenny and The continuing growth of the economy is two were made to Buncrana. dependent on the ongoing expansion of the On 31 March 2005, I announced that 423 jobs labour force. One of the main challenges facing were to be created in the north-west region in us is the ability to meet this expansion and IDA supported companies — 300 in Toucan, the greater female participation will continue to be a consumer telecoms business of IDT Corporation, very important element in this regard. The cur- at its new customer service centre in Sligo and rent employment rate for women in Ireland is 123 software development jobs at SITA Inc., in 57.2%, which represents an increase of 12.6% Letterkenny. Discussions on further job creation in the area are ongoing with a number of other since 1997. At EU level, under the Lisbon companies. Agenda, a female employment rate target of 60% IDA Ireland, which is the agency charged with to be met by 2010 has been set. The Employment attracting foreign direct investment, FDI, to in Europe 2004 report predicts that Ireland is Ireland, has indicated that 2,778 jobs were likely to reach this target. created by IDA client companies in the north- The Government will continue to pursue poli- west region in the last five years. IDA is working cies-initiatives in the areas of child care, taxation, closely with its existing base of companies in the social benefits and flexible, family-friendly work- north-west. One of the challenges facing compan- ing arrangements to encourage and enable ies in the north-west is in the area of competi- women to take up employment. tiveness and this has resulted in job losses in sec- A number of specific measures aimed at tors such as textiles and clothing and low-end encouraging greater participation by women are manufacturing. Where a company has plans to being undertaken by FA´ S, including: expanding introduce new functions, new technologies or the workforce programme, the aim of which is to products, IDA will assist the company where provide a gateway for women returners into the possible to make new investments that lead to labour market; and the introduction of the child new jobs. care allowance scheme which aims to facilitate IDA Ireland is also involved with Invest more people, particularly women, to take up FA´ S Northern Ireland in the creation of a Virtual training programmes, with a view to taking up Cross Border Technology Park incorporating employment in the mainstream economy. business parks in Letterkenny and Derry city. The project rationale is to create a business zone Question No. 110 answered with Question with sufficient critical mass to allow the north No. 87. west region to compete more favourably for inward investment. Air Services. IDA Ireland has assured me it is committed to regional development, that it forms a core part of 111. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for its strategy and that it is working with relevant Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his atten- national and local partners to develop and build tion has been drawn to the recent research by the the infrastructure necessary to make locations Air Transport Users’ Council regarding charges like the north-west competitive for international that are added on to advertised airfares; if he is businesses. planning to take action on the basis of the AUC’s I am confident that the strategies and policies findings; and if he will make a statement on the being pursued by IDA Ireland in Donegal, matter. [12188/05] together with the ongoing commitment of Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Government to regional development will con- ment (Mr. Martin): SI 468 of 2000 entitled the tinue to bear fruit in terms of delivering the Consumer Information (Advertisements for maximum possible level of additional jobs for the Airfares) Order 2000 requires that in every north-west region. advertisement for an airfare the total price for the airfare shall be clearly stated. The only exception Labour Force Development. is that if any charge is payable in respect of a 109. Ms Enright asked the Minister for method of payment this can be shown separately. 1727 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1728

[Mr. Martin.] cally involved in inspection and investigation A number of legal issues have arisen in regard activities and in the enforcement of health and to the enforcement of this order arising out of a safety legislation. court case where the Director of Consumer This year the authority will increase the Affairs initiated proceedings against an airline. number of inspections to be undertaken and the The judge in the case stated that as the Consumer associated enforcement. Priority will be given to Information Act 1978 was intended to target the serious accidents and complaints, which will be publisher of advertisements, as distinct from the investigated and the necessary actions taken to entity placing the advertisement — in this case guarantee the required improvements. A primary the airline — the case would have to be emphasis for the authority is on the prevention of dismissed. workplace accidents through new initiatives, My officials have consulted the Office of the alliances and targeted programmes. I am confi- Attorney General on the matters arising and I dent that, in the context of the overall allocation await their response. When I have received this of resources, the authority can carry out its objec- advice and considered all the issues involved I tives over the coming year. will decide what action to take. While the statistics for workplace fatalities for 2004 showed a decline at 50 overall, the number Job Creation. of people killed in work related accidents in 2005 to date is 22, an alarming statistic which is com- 112. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for pletely unacceptable. Workplace safety has to be Enterprise, Trade and Employment the action he on the top of employers and workers’ agendas. intends to take to provide alternative employ- Employers need to put in place a proper health ment for those in the banking sector facing redun- and safety management system to reduce and dancy; and if he will make a statement on the eliminate these needless deaths and injuries. matter. [12071/05] Workers must be safety conscious and should not Minister of State at the Department of engage in activities that could endanger their own Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. safety or the safety of others. Killeen): FA´ S, through its employment service, provides a range of services to employers and Employment Rights Bodies. employees including job placement. FA´ S, in co- 114. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for operation with the relevant employers, will be Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he intends available to assist employees in the banking sec- to publish the report of the review group on the tor to source alternative employment oppor- employment rights bodies; the main recommend- tunities. ations in the report; when he intends to publish However, it should be noted that employment the Government’s response to the report; and if in the private market services sector, which he will make a statement on the matter. includes business and financial services, is esti- [12088/05] mated in the FA´ S-ESRI employment forecast to grow from 386,000 in 2001 to 540,000 in 2010. Minister of State at the Department of This should ensure favourable employment Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. opportunities in the financial services sector Killeen): Membership of the review group on the going forward. functions of the employment rights bodies consisted of representatives of the bodies covered by Health and Safety Regulations. the review and representatives of the Depart- ments of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and 113. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Written sub- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has missions were received from various parties, satisfied himself that the Health and Safety Auth- including the social partners and the bodies ority has sufficient staff and resources to carry out covered by the review. its work having regard to the continuing The review group made a number of recom- unacceptable number of industrial accidents; and mendations intended to bring a greater coherence if he will make a statement on the matter. to the workings of the bodies, combined with [12109/05] greater accessibility and improved customer ser- Minister of State at the Department of vice. These included improved internal processes Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. and common procedures, some possible re-con- Killeen): The Health and Safety Authority will figuration of fora and measures to bring about receive a grant of \16.098 million in 2005, which legislative restatement and harmonisation of the is an increase from \14.994 million in 2004 and large corpus of employment rights legislation. \13.607 million in 2003. In addition, further allo- Since receiving the report, my Department and I cation of funds were made towards workplace have engaged in a very intensive process of con- safety projects which are implemented in consultations in the context of the report. The key junction with the construction safety partnership: challenge to be faced in formulating the Govern- \301,000 in 2003, \266,000 in 2004 and \301,000 ment’s proposals in this area will be to offer a will again be made available in 2005. The auth- better customer service while reforming pro- ority has a staff of 163, 100 of whom are specifi- cedures and simplifying the overall process, but 1729 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1730 while not reducing employment rights or review group was established in September 2003 undermining the adjudicative independence of to examine the coherence and user-friendliness of the various bodies concerned. procedures operating in the area of employment It is my intention to be in a position to rights compliance. announce the Government’s response to the Membership of the review group consisted of review group’s report and the subsequent consul- representatives of the bodies covered by the tations within the next two to three weeks. In review and representatives of the Departments of accordance with the undertaking given by the Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Justice, review group, the report will be made available Equality and Law Reform. Written submissions to the parties invited to make submissions to that were received from various parties, including the group and will be published on the Internet, after social partners and the bodies covered by the consideration by Government. review. The review group made a number of recommendations intended to bring a greater Work Permits. coherence to the workings of the bodies, combined with greater accessibility and improved cus- 115. Ms McManus asked the Minister for tomer service. These included improved internal Enterprise, Trade and Employment when the processes and common procedures, some possible promised legislation to put the employment per- re-configuration of fora and measures to bring mit regime on a comprehensive and sound statu- about legislative restatement and harmonisation tory footing will be enacted; the reason for the of the large corpus of employment rights delay in bringing forward the legislation, which legislation. was originally promised for early 2003; if he will Since receiving the report, my Department and confirm that it is intended to replace the work I have engaged in a very intensive process of con- permit system with a green card system; and if he sultations in the context of the report. The key will make a statement on the matter. [12092/05] challenge to be faced in formulating the Govern- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment’s proposals in this area will be to offer a ment (Mr. Martin): A Bill to put Ireland’s exist- better customer service while reforming pro- ing employment permit system on a statutory cedures and simplifying the overall process, but basis is in the final stage of drafting. The intention while not reducing employment rights or is to have the Bill introduced during this session. undermining the adjudicative independence of The preparatory stages of this Bill have taken the various bodies concerned. I can advise the longer than expected because of the change in Deputy that I am not contemplating proposals labour market circumstances due to the enlarge- which would see the EAT subsumed by the ment of the European Union. The proposed Labour Court. It is my intention to be in a posi- Employment Permits Bill 2005, which will govern tion to announce the Government’s response to the issue of all employment permits for nationals the review group’s report and the subsequent from outside the European Economic Area, consultations within the next two to three weeks. EEA, will put the existing employment permit In accordance with the undertaking given by administrative arrangements on a sound legislat- the review group, the report will be made avail- ive footing and thereby provide greater accountable to the parties invited to make submissions to ability and transparency. The EEA comprises the that group and will be published on the Internet, 25 EU member states, Norway, Iceland, Licht- after consideration by Government. enstein and Switzerland. It is also intended that the Bill will include pro- Skill Shortages. visions that will empower me to issue employ- 118. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for ment permits of extended or indefinite duration, Enterprise, Trade and Employment the areas of analogous to a “green card” type system, where the economy which suffer from a skills deficit; the workers in question are critical to meeting and if he will make a statement on the matter. Ireland’s skill and employment needs. [12065/05] Question No. 116 answered with Question Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- No. 107. ment (Mr. Martin): The expert group on future skills needs, EGFSN, was set up by Government Employment Rights Bodies. in 1997 to develop national strategies to tackle the issue of skills needs, manpower estimating 117. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for and training for business and education in Enterprise, Trade and Employment his proposals Ireland. The EGFSN has published many reports to allow the employment appeals tribunal to be that have identified in a systematic way the skills subsumed by the Labour Court; and if he will needs of different sectors and advised on the make a statement on the matter. [12076/05] actions needed to address them. Minister of State at the Department of The expert group future skills needs made 227 Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. specific recommendations between 1997 and Killeen): On foot on an undertaking in An March 2005 aimed at ensuring that Ireland’s skills Agreed Programme for Government to review needs are met in a timely fashion. These recom- the functions of the employment rights bodies, a mendations spanned a number of sectors includ- 1731 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1732

[Mr. Martin.] taking to address this situation; and if he will ing ICT, engineering, life science and biotechnol- make a statement on the matter. [12083/05] ogy, food processing, construction and finance. The expert group has also examined vertical skills Minister of State at the Department of issues, including soft skills, sales and marketing, Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. management and most recently a language skills Killeen): In 2004, labour inspectors of my Depart- report which is about to be published. A recent ment undertook 462 inspections under the report from the EGFSN which considered the National Minimum Wage Act 2000. So far this impact of increasing the national expenditure on year, the inspectorate has undertaken 143 inspec- research and development in line with the Barce- tions under the legislation. Inspectors operate on lona target, projected a requirement for an the basis of achieving compliance. Where an additional 8,000 researchers in the Irish economy inspection occurs leading to a detection of over the period to 2010. The expert group has infringements, the employer is required to rectify also pointed to the need to enhance innovation the infringements detected. Failure to do so to and sales capabilities as being critical for the the satisfaction of the labour inspectorate within future success of Irish exporting small and a specified period results in the initiation of medium sized enterprises. legal proceedings. Substantial progress has been made on these The Deputy should be aware that rights com- recommendations including. There have been missioners of the Labour Relations Commission substantial increases in third level and training — a body independent of my Department — also course places to address the supply shortages in investigate complaints of breaches of the ICT and life sciences. The promotion of careers National Minimum Wage Act 2000. The Deputy in science, technology and engineering, SET, has should also be aware that there are some 19 been one of the key messages adopted by the employment regulation orders drawn up through expert group. SET skills will form the backbone the joint labour committee system that regulates of an innovation-driven, knowledge economy. statutory minimum rates of pay and conditions of The Government launched an integrated aware- employment for workers employed in the various ness campaign, discover science and engineering, sectors where these apply. Ensuring compliance in 2003 with a mandate to increase the interest in with the minimum pay amounts, terms and con- science and engineering at both primary and post- ditions forms a major element of the work of the primary education, with a view to encouraging inspectorate. These norms are established under employment regulation orders, EROs. In 2004, more students to pursue science and engineering 486 inspections were made under EROs and so studies and ultimately careers. In the current year far this year, to the end of March, 101 inspections it has a budget of \2 million. The need for basic have been undertaken. information in relation to training provision has been addressed by the establishment of a compre- As agreed in the mid-term review of Sustaining Progress, four additional labour inspectors were hensive national trainer’s database by FA´ S. appointed earlier this year. This increased the Since its inception in 1997, the analysis and complement of inspectors to 21. The review of recommendations contained in the reports of the the mandate and resourcing of the labour inspec- expert group on future skills needs have contrib- torate, which was prepared as a discussion docu- uted to ensuring that no major impediment to ment to assist consideration within the social economic progress has occurred as a result of fail- partnership context, examined a range of possi- ure to anticipate specific skills needs within the bilities around the operation of the labour inspec- key sectors of the economy. The mandate of the torate and offered a spectrum of possibilities EGFSM was expanded in 2004 to incorporate the ranging from a compliance regime where the role previously discharged by the National Train- initiative would move more toward the complaining Advisory Council which was set up to advise ant, with the labour inspectorate offering support on the strategy for enterprise training in Ireland. to a model where the right of initiative would be Apart from the action taken in the form of mak- with the labour inspectorate who would conduct ing recommendations and publishing reports, the a hands-on approach. Both models endeavour to expert group has also sought ways seeking to help present either ends of a spectrum of possible form opinion by ensuring that the findings of its options for compliance checking and enforce- research become more widely known and are ment. The purpose of their inclusion is primarily reflected in debate on future skills needs. to stimulate debate and signal that fundamental changes in approach must be considered. National Minimum Wage. On 12 April 2005, the Minister, Deputy Martin, 119. Ms Burton asked the Minister for announced that he is appointing additional labour Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number inspectors who will place a specific emphasis on of inspections carried out by the labour inspector- sectors where migrant workers are concentrated. ate of his Department to ensure payment of the The group will consist of a team leader and ten national minimum wage; if his attention has been labour inspectors. The additional inspectors will drawn to concerns expressed by labour inspectors strengthen the labour inspectorate’s capacity to that they do not have adequate resources to pol- ensure that workers in these sectors receive their ice the national minimum wage; the steps he is entitlements under employment rights legislation. 1733 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1734

This expansion of the inspectorate will bring the Whereas the processing of work permit appli- authorised number of labour inspectors to 31. cations will continue to be undertaken by my Department, a virtual link will be established Work Permits. between the new INIS and the work permits section in my Department in order to achieve 120. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for maximum cohesion and effectiveness. I shall con- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if all non- tinue to have responsibility for economic national employees are being treated in accord- migration policy. ance with Irish and European labour laws; the The overall effectiveness of these arrangements procedures he has put in place to identify and will be reviewed within two years. prevent breaches; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12168/05] Regulation System. Minister of State at the Department of 122. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on Killeen): No distinction is made in employment whether there should be a single regulator for all rights legislation as between Irish and migrant services and utilities; and if he will make a state- workers. For the avoidance of doubt, section 20 ment on the matter. [12079/05] of the Protection of Employees (Part-Time) Work Act 2001 provides that all employee pro- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- tection legislation on the Statute Book in Ireland ment (Mr. Martin): The Government recently applies to workers posted to work in Ireland in considered and endorsed the report of the high line with Directive 96/71/EC of the European level committee that was asked to examine the Parliament and Council of 16 December 1996. most appropriate implementation arrangements This directive relates to the posting of workers in for the enterprise strategy group, ESG, recom- the framework of the provision of services and mendations. While the Government is broadly applies also to a person, irrespective of his or her supportive of the policy directions recommended nationality or place of residence, who has entered by the ESG, it decided not to implement the into a contract of employment that provides for recommendation that the existing regulators for his or her being employed in the State or who networked sectors, for example, electricity, gas, works in the State under a contract of employ- telecommunications and broadcasting should be ment. Thus, all employee legislation applies to replaced by a new regulatory body covering all migrant workers. networked sectors. Equally, the labour inspectorate and the com- In examining international experience, the pliance section as a whole of the Department of Government remains to be convinced that regu- Enterprise Trade and Employment makes no dis- latory amalgamation on the scale proposed would tinction as between Irish and migrant workers be an efficient model. There is a danger that a both as regards the provision of advice and single regulator could give rise to slower decision enforcement activity. The recent announcement making and less focus on smaller sectors com- by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and pared with more dominant ones. I understand Employment on the provision of an additional that my colleague, the Minister for Communi- ten labour inspectors and a team leader to the cations, Marine and Natural Resources, whose labour inspectorate will also assist in this area remit covers this area, is considering various especially as the Minister has asked that they structures for appeals of decisions made by regu- have a primary focus sectors where there are con- latory authorities under the aegis of his centrations of migrant workers. Department. 121. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- Employment Remuneration. ster for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the functions of his Department in regard to work 123. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for permits or other matters relating to immigrant Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his Depart- workers it is intended to transfer to the new ment has collated data on pay disparities between immigration one stop shop, recently announced men and women in individual sectors; and if he by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law will make a statement on the matter. [12069/05] Reform; and if he will make a statement on the Minister of State at the Department of matter. [12093/05] Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Killeen): Primary responsibility for the provision Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- of statistical information in the area of employment (Mr. Martin): On 1 March last, my col- ment, including pay in individual sectors, is a league the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law matter for the Central Statistics Office which falls Reform announced Government approval for the under the remit of the Department of the establishment of the Irish naturalisation and Taoiseach. immigration service, INIS, as an executive office From information supplied by the Central Statis- within the Department of Justice, Equality and tics Office, I understand that it has introduced a Law Reform. It is intended that this new service new survey, the national employment survey, NES, will provide a one-stop-shop service to migrants. which is an integrated survey of employers and 1735 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1736

[Mr. Killeen.] sultation paper on corporate killing of October employees and collects information on, inter alia, 2003 recommended that a new offence of corpor- pay and hours worked. Both the public and private ate killing be established which would be pros- sectors were included in this survey on the same ecuted on indictment, without exclusion of any basis. Information from the 2003 NES will be pub- entity whether incorporated or not. The offence lished within the next few weeks and will include would apply to acts or omissions of a high mana- sectoral and gender disaggregated information on gerial agent, which would be treated as those of hourly and weekly pay. the undertaking. To reflect the seriousness of the offence, the commission also recommended that Science and Technology Groups. the legislation should provide for an unlimited 124. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for fine, or that in certain circumstances, an individ- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if it is ual high managerial agent should also be subject intended that Ireland become a full member of to imprisonment of up to five years. The com- CERN; and if he will make a statement on the mission is currently considering submissions on matter. [7613/05] its consultation paper. My Department is already in receipt of advice from the Office of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Attorney General to the effect that the issue of ment (Mr. Martin): Ireland attaches great import- corporate killing has broad implications. ance to participating in intergovernmental As I indicated on Committee Stage of the research organisations, IGROs, where this can Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Bill 2004, enhance the goals of national research policy. which took place on 23 and 24 November last, Our current membership includes the European and in my answer to a similar question by Deputy Space Agency, ESA, European Molecular Costello on Thursday, 24 February 2005, Govern- Biology Conference, EMBC, EUREKA, network ment policy is to await the review by the Law for market orientated research and development, Reform Commission which, I understand, is due COST, European co-operation in the field of for publication this year and to then decide what scientific and technical research and INTAS, is to be done with regard to the issue of corpor- international association for the promotion of co- ate manslaughter. operation with scientists from the new indepen- The provisions in section 80 of the Safety, dent states, NIS, of the former Soviet Union. Health and Welfare at Work Bill 2004, currently In 2001, a detailed assessment of Irish partici- at Report Stage in the House, entitled liability of pation in IGROs, which included CERN, Euro- directors and officers of undertakings are more pean laboratory for particle physics, which fosters explicit in relation to the assignment of responsi- research in high-energy physics using acceler- bility than an existing provision in the Safety, ators, was conducted by the Georgia Institute of Health and Welfare at Work Act 1989. These Technology on my Department’s behalf. The provisions will assign responsibility to individual resulting report to Forfa´s recommended that directors, managers or other similar officers for Ireland should not join CERN at that point. offences related to occupational safety and health However, to take account of the changes that law and therefore mean that actual persons in have taken place in Ireland’s scientific and managerial roles can be prosecuted for breaches enterprise landscape over the last three years, of worker safety law and are potentially liable to including in particular the investments of Science heavy fines and prison sentences. Foundation Ireland and PRTLI, the chief science However, it is worth noting that directors and adviser has been asked to review the case for managers of companies have in the past been membership of additional IGROs, including prosecuted for failures under occupational safety CERN. The CSA’s work programme provides for law which resulted in death or serious injury to this issue to be addressed in the second half of workers. 2005. The review will take into account issues relating to value for money, the demand for the Question No. 126 answered with Question facilities, the alternatives available and the No. 101. optimisation of returns to the Irish scientific community. Question No. 127 answered with Question No. 99. Proposed Legislation. 125. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Question No. 128 answered with Question Enterprise, Trade and Employment the progress No. 102. in regard to his consideration of proposals to introduce legislation to provide for a new offence National Minimum Wage. of corporate killing as recommended by the Law 129. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Reform Commission; and if he will make a state- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has ment on the matter. [12090/05] taken steps to ensure that seafarers operating Minister of State at the Department of from Irish ports are paid the minimum wage and Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. enjoy the benefits of working time and holiday Killeen): The Law Reform Commission in its con- legislation; if he has had discussions with EU col- 1737 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1738 leagues to ensure that re-registering of vessels in implement them; and if he will make a statement non-EU countries does not deprive workers of on the matter. [12197/05] the enjoyment of labour legislation in the port Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- countries; and if he will make a statement on the ment (Mr. Martin): I have received the latest matter. [12081/05] report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise and Small Business in relation to its Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. study of the grocery market. The recommend- Killeen): Labour inspectors are empowered to ations contained in the report are directed to a enter any premises in the State where an variety of Government Departments and agen- employee is employed, or the work that an cies, a number of which relate to my Department. employee is employed to do is directed and con- The Deputy will also be aware that my Depart- trolled, for the purpose of ensuring compliance ment last year commissioned the consumer with the National Minimum Wage Act 2000. strategy group to advise and make recommend- Inspectors pursue allegations of worker mistreat- ations on the development of a national con- ment and when evidence of non-compliance with sumer policy strategy. The group as part of its the relevant employment rights legislation is deliberations looked at a number of sectors found, the inspectorate seeks redress for the indi- including the grocery trade. vidual or individuals concerned and, if appro- I would like to thank the Oireachtas Joint priate, a prosecution is initiated. Committee and compliment it for its valuable Alternatively, if a seafarer is not satisfied that work in this area. I intend to give proper con- he or she is being paid his or her statutory mini- sideration to the recommendations in the com- mum entitlement under the National Minimum mittee’s report in the context of developing a new Wage Act 2000, he or she could refer the matter consumer policy in the follow-up to the work of to a rights commissioner. A decision of a rights the consumer strategy group. The report of the commissioner under the 2000 Act may include an Oireachtas Joint Committee will make an award of arrears of pay owing to the seafarer important contribution to that process. under the 2000 Act and his or her reasonable 131. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for expenses in bringing the case against the Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on employer. the groceries order; and if he will make a state- As regards the working time of seafarers, this ment on the matter. [12077/05] is regulated by SI 532 of 2003 entitled European 146. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Communities (Merchant Shipping) (Organisation Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he intends of Working Time) Regulations 2003. Under these to maintain the ban on below cost selling; if he regulations, which are administered by the has considered the interim report of the Joint Department of Communications, Marine and Committee on Enterprise and Small Business on Natural Resources, the working time of seafarers this issue; and if he will make a statement on the can be enforced by authorised officers who, in matter. [12098/05] carrying out their work, have the power to board ships registered in and outside the State. In so far Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- as holiday legislation is concerned, seafarers who ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions are not given their statutory entitlement to Nos. 131 and 146 together. annual leave and public holidays by their I have received the report of the consumer employer under the Organisation of Working strategy group which has made recommendations Time Act 1997 are entitled to refer the matter on a wide range of consumer issues including the to a rights commissioner for redress. The rights groceries order. I am discussing the group’s find- commissioner is empowered under the 1997 Act ings with my Government colleagues and to require the employer to comply with any of arrangements will be made to publish the report the provisions of the 1997 Act that have been as soon as possible. breached and to award compensation to the Once the report is published I intend to consult employee up to a limit of two years remuneration with all interested parties on the groceries order. of the employee. I am also aware of the findings of the Joint Com- The question of the re-registering of vessels in mittee on Enterprise and Small Business in its non-EU countries is a matter for my colleague, recent report on the impact of the grocery mul- the Minister for Communications, Marine and tiples. I will take the views of all interested parties Natural Resources. into consideration before deciding how to proceed in the matter. Grocery Industry. 130. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for National Minimum Wage. Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on 132. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for each of the recommendations made by the Joint Enterprise, Trade and Employment how the level Committee on Enterprise and Small Business in of the recent increase in minimum wage was cal- its report on grocery prices; the recommendations culated and agreed upon; the nature of the meet- he will be implementing; when he plans to ings he had with business representatives and 1739 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1740

[Mr. J. O’Keeffe.] ment, which are developed through a three- trade unions; and if he will make a statement on dimensional approach involving the following: the matter. [12061/05] facilitating the progression of disabled people into sustainable employment through the Minister of State at the Department of development of their skills; stimulating awareness Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. amongst employers of the contribution which dis- Killeen): As part of the mid-term review of part abled people can make to their business, and two of Sustaining Progress, the social partners, encouraging companies to consider recruiting dis- namely, ICTU and IBEC, agreed to request the abled people to fill their vacancies; and providing Labour Court to review the national minimum specific employment supports for disabled people wage and to make a recommendation to the Mini- and employers. ster to apply from 1 May 2005. ICTU requested the Labour Court to examine the minimum wage People with disabilities now benefit from the full range of FA´ S training programmes and ser- in September 2004. ´ On 1 February the Labour Court submitted its vices and FAS also provides an extensive range recommendation that the minimum wage should of schemes and grants to promote the employ- be increased from the current rate of \7 per hour ment of people with disabilities in the private sec- to \7.65 per hour from 1 May 2005. The national tor, including: the disability awareness training minimum wage legislation sets out a series of support scheme; employment retention grant; steps, which the Labour Court must undertake in work and equipment adaptation grant; job inter- its examination of the minimum wage. In view interpreter grant; and personal reader grant addition, the legislation provides that the pro- and employment support scheme. ´ cedures of the Labour Court in respect of an In addition, FAS also operates on behalf of the application or hearing to examine the minimum Department: a pilot programme for employment wage shall be as determined by the Labour Court. of people with disabilities, grant assistance for I have no role in how the Labour Court arrives commercially viable enterprises of which at least at its recommendation. 50% of the employees are people with dis- The legislation provides that I have three abilities; and a supported employment prog- months to consider the Labour Court recom- ramme, an open labour market initiative that mendation. In considering the recommendation, works to place and support people with different I am required to take into account the impact the types and varying degrees of disability who need proposed rate may have on employment; the the initial support of a job coach to obtain or overall economic conditions in the State and maintain employment. national competitiveness. To assist in my deliber- I have also secured additional funding for the ations, the ESRI was requested to undertake an development and introduction of a new full-time assessment of the impact of the increase in the employment support scheme for people with dis- minimum wage. abilities on a three-year pilot basis. A budget line I met with several employer representative of \10 million has been established for the groups, who sought meetings with me, to outline scheme for 2005. This comprises the current pro- their positions on the proposed increase. Having vision of \5 million for the combined employ- considered the matter, I decided to increase the ment support scheme and the pilot programme minimum wage from \7to\7.65 with effect from for the employment of people with disabilities, 1 May 2005, in accordance with the Labour and an additional \5 million. The scheme will be Court recommendation. implemented by FA´ S this summer. The total number of people with disabilities FA´ S Training Programmes. placed in employment and training by FA´ Sin 2004 was 8,608 compared to 8,459 in 2003. The 133. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for wide-ranging National Disability Authority Enterprise, Trade and Employment the progress report entitled Towards Best Practice in the Pro- made in enabling persons with disabilities to vision of Further Education, Employment and enter the workforce; if his Department has Training Services contains 29 recommendations implemented recommendations contained in the which have implications for several Departments, National Disability Authority report (details including the Department of Enterprise, Trade supplied) which was received by his Department and Employment in the area of employment and in January 2004. [12172/05] training provision. In this area, 19 of these recom- Minister of State at the Department of mendations have policy and or operational impli- Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. cations for FA´ S under the aegis of the Depart- Killeen): Broad employment and training objec- ment. FA´ S is addressing these recommendations tives and policies to promote the employment of in conjunction with the Department. They are of disabled people, including schemes, programmes assistance in the context of the ongoing monitor- and services are reflected in the statements of ing and review of policy and programme pro- strategy and business plans of the Department of vision consistent with providing the most efficient Enterprise, Trade and Employment and FA´ S. services possible to people with disabilities. FA´ S programmes and the various support My Department’s objective in the period ahead measures are based on the policies of the Depart- is to consolidate the significant value added in 1741 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1742 advancing the employment and training agenda Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- since assuming policy responsibility for vocational ment (Mr. Martin): The position on the trans- training and employment for people with disposition of EU directives for which my Depart- abilities. ment is responsible indicates a total of 29 directives to be implemented, including nine for Consumer Rights. which the deadline for implementation, in full or in part, has passed. 134. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Details of the directives, including, in so far as Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on it has been decided, the proposed transposition the proposal for a consumer rights enforcer; and instruments, are available on my Department’s if he will make a statement on the matter. website at www.entemp.ie/trade/eudirectives. The [12078/05] website also contains information on directives Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- awaiting transposition in respect of which ment (Mr. Martin): The views of Government on infringement proceedings have been commenced. the consumer rights enforcer proposed by Fine In regard to seven of the directives that have Gael were outlined in detail by my colleague, the not yet been transposed and for which the dead- Minister of State at the Department of line has passed, letters of formal notice have been Enterprise, Trade and Employment with special received from the Commission. Four of the letters responsibility for labour affairs, on the occasion of formal notice are in respect of four interrelated of Deputy Hogan bringing forward his Private directives which will be transposed under one Member’s Bill, the Consumer Rights Enforcer statutory instrument. My Department is giving all Bill 2004 last November. The Government due priority to the task of implementing EU opposed this Bill at the time and the substantive directives, in light of the available resources. position on the matter has not changed in the interim. Question No. 136 answered with Question The Fine Gael proposals do not represent a No. 100. comprehensive or up-to-date agenda for the modern Irish consumer. On 2 March last I received a Trade Missions. comprehensive report from the consumer 137. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for strategy group, which includes its recommend- Enterprise, Trade and Employment his assess- ations for the development of a new consumer ment of the recent trade mission to China; if he policy. This group comprised individuals with the will estimate the degree of economic activity expertise and experience to undertake the task between Ireland and China directly generated by and has engaged in an extensive public consul- the mission; and if he will make a statement on tation exercise as well as taking into account the the matter. [12063/05] experience of other countries in implementing consumer policy. I am discussing the group’s final Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- report with my colleagues in Government and ment (Mr. Martin): In the three-month period hope to publish the report shortly and announce since the Taoiseach led this trade mission there my intentions in regard to progressing the group’s has been significant progress. This is additional to \ recommendations at that time. contracts valued at about 126 million signed in One aspect of the Fine Gael proposal is the the course of the trade mission. increase of certain consumer protection fines to a Enterprise Ireland arranged for the education maximum of \3,000. Legislation to this effect was sector to participate in trade fairs in Beijing and published by my Department on 31 March last Shanghai, where 23 institutions were represented. and is being taken in the Seanad. I look forward Best estimates suggest that universities and to the Deputy’s support for this legislation in colleges following up on partnerships signed dur- due course. ing the January trade mission will recruit in excess of 400 additional students who plan to European Directives. begin their college careers in September of this year. This represents estimated revenue to Irish 135. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for colleges of approximately \3 million, and an Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number additional \3 million spend here. of EU directives for which his Department has In the information technology sector, one com- responsibility which have yet to be implemented; pany has since established its sales and marketing the number in respect of which the deadline for office in Beijing and another has reported that a implementation has passed; if he is satisfied with new partnership signed during the Shanghai leg the rate of compliance by his Department; the of the mission has generated its first order. A number of cases where legal actions have been food company that was represented on the trade notified or commenced by the EU Commission mission has received a first trial order for the arising from a failure to implement a directive; shipment of product to China. Should this be suc- and if he will make a statement on the matter. cessful, it is expected that over \500,000 in prod- [12104/05] uct will be shipped this year. Another food com- 1743 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1744

[Mr. Martin.] ciplines in Ireland, a greater equilibrium is pany is about to announce the opening of its first required in the workplace. Under the SFI initiat- China office in Shanghai. ive, women who have left careers in science, Enterprise Ireland is continuing to work with engineering and technology will be encouraged to client companies that participated on the mission return to their professions. and to assist them in maximising opportunities in FA´ S has a policy of promoting and encourag- the Chinese marketplace. In addition to these ing the entry of women into apprenticeships. It commercial developments, and following commit- offers a bursary to private and public sector ments made during the January trade mission, employers who recruit female apprentices under Enterprise Ireland is participating in an infor- the apprenticeship system in the currently desig- mation technology fair in Dalian in June and in nated trades. FA´ S is also in the process of the Xiamen Trade and Investment Fair in Sep- developing a range of new apprenticeships in tember. It is also organising missions to China for areas that are more attractive to women. companies from the aerospace sector and the fur- In addition, for women and men who wish to niture sector in September of this year. enter non-traditional sectors, there is legislative A large Government and business delegation support, under the Employment Equality Act from Shanghai will visit Cork in May 2005 to 1998, which outlaws discrimination in employ- complete the twinning process for those cities. ment on nine grounds, including gender. Enterprise Ireland is planning a business-net- working event in Cork during that visit. Other Question No. 139 answered with Question visiting delegations from the Zhejiang, Fujian, No. 101. Liaoning and Hebei provinces have agreed travel dates and will be hosted in this country by Employment Rights. Enterprise Ireland later in the year. 140. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the action he Equal Opportunities Employment. has taken or plans to take arising from allegations 138. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for of very serious irregularities in regard to the Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on treatment of employees of a Turkish company whether his Department has a role in taking (details supplied) which has been operating in action to address gender gaps in participation in this country; if all the workers have now been certain industries; and if he will make a statement given access to money held in accounts in a bank on the matter. [12070/05] in Holland; if he has considered requesting the Garda Sı´ocha´na to conduct an investigation into Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- allegations that money had been diverted into ment (Mr. Martin): Gender gaps in participation accounts to which the workers previously had no in certain sectors or occupations reflect, to a cer- access; and if he will make a statement on the tain extent, the different roles that men and matter. [12080/05] women have traditionally played in society. This has resulted in the situation where, for example, Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- women are over-represented in caring roles, such ment (Mr. Martin): The report of the labour as teaching and nursing, while men continue to inspectorate into the wages and hours worked by dominate in science, engineering and technology. Turkish workers is the subject of a High Court This is a complex issue involving several factors injunction. Accordingly, I am not in a position to including gender stereotyping in education which inform the Deputy concerning any of the contents influences the career choices made by women or recommendations in the report. I cannot indi- and men. cate definitively, at this stage, the specific actions This is a cross-cutting issue involving several which I may take with regard to these allegations. Departments such as the Department of Edu- Officials from my Department visited Fin- cation and Science, which, through the school ansbank in Holland on 14 and 15 April. The visit system, encourages an increased uptake of took place outside the scope of the labour inspec- courses in the science and mathematics fields by tor’s report and outside the scope of the High girls; and the Department of Justice Equality and Court injunction. This had been agreed with Law Reform, under its equality for women Gama Construction Turkey and Gama Construc- measure, supports a number of projects aimed at tion Ireland prior to the visit taking place. increasing the number of women in science, The purpose of the visit was to clarify the engineering and technology. access of Gama workers, past and present, to the I recently announced an initiative being under- so-called Dutch accounts in the workers’ names taken by Science Foundation Ireland aimed at in Finansbank. My officials brought with them boosting the number of women scientists in proxy forms supplied by Gama and Matheson Ireland and addressing the gender imbalance in Ormsby Prentice, solicitors, signed by some the research community. While women are well Gama workers, giving them access to their represented at undergraduate and postgraduate account details and also proxy forms, supplied by level in most scientific and technological dis- SIPTU and Deputy Higgins, giving similar access. 1745 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1746

In respect of all 16 accounts for which they had for the individual workers giving personal instruc- proxy forms, Finansbank supplied the following tions to the bank as regards their accounts. I am material: initial authorisation forms, authorising not in a position to state whether the moneys Finansbank to open a personal account in the have reached the individual workers’ accounts name of the worker; initial payment authorisation and that they may gain access to the funds. My forms, instructing Finansbank to transfer all officials will make further inquiries. incoming funds from the personal account into Ryder Investment N. V., and also bank Job Losses. statements. 141. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for In respect of 15 of the above accounts, supplied Enterprise, Trade and Employment the action he by Matheson Ormsby Prentice, solicitors, refund intends to take to provide alternative employ- instructions had been signed by the workers. The ment in County Limerick following the recent Finansbank representatives were helpful in dis- closure of companies (details supplied); and if he cussing all of these documents and their impli- will make a statement on the matter. [12072/05] cations. In particular, Finansbank assured my officials that all 15 refund instructions had been Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- completed successfully, as shown on the bank ment (Mr. Martin): I am aware of the job losses statements. They explained that Ryder Invest- in several companies in County Limerick which ment had given Finansbank an irrevocable stand- are significant setbacks to the locality. I am con- ing order, such that if any Gama worker cerned for the workers who are losing their jobs requested a refund of all the transfers that had as well as their families and the wider community been made from his personal account to Ryder in the county. Investment, Finansbank would make the refund The full services of FA´ S, particularly in regard with interest into the personal account. to re-training and up-skilling, are made available They also assured my officials that all account to such workers if the workers wish to avail of requests from workers would be processed those services. FA´ S has already been in contact quickly via acceptable intermediaries, for with staff from the companies involved. example, Gama, Matheson Ormsby Prentice, Replacing jobs is a tough challenge and is a SIPTU etc. central goal in the achievement of balanced Over 600 refund requests went to Finansbank regional development. The industrial develop- via Gama and Matheson, Ormsby Prentice last ment agencies work closely with the local auth- week and my officials were assured by Fin- ority and other local interests to deliver the best ansbank that such moneys as were in their Fin- solution in this regard. The national spatial ansbank accounts had been transferred from Fin- strategy provides a framework for the achieve- ansbank to their personal accounts in Is Bank in ment of this goal for County Limerick through Turkey. I am not in a position to state whether the prioritisation of development and investment the moneys have reached the individual workers’ in the linked gateway of Limerick-Shannon to accounts and that they may gain access to the allow foreign direct investment to flow to the funds. area. The emphasis is on attracting new know- A further 200 plus requests for bank statements ledge intensive projects in information and were submitted to Finansbank last Friday by communications technology, international ser- SIPTU and Deputy Higgins. My officials were vices, medical technologies and life sciences. assured that these requests would be processed IDA Ireland is committed to the development by close of business yesterday 19 April. Late last of the mid-west region and is actively promoting night my officials received a listing of 231 account it for new foreign investment. In 2005 to date, holders, account balances and the statement that there have been five first time site visits to the moneys were being transferred to a series of Limerick city and county and there were 19 first bank accounts in Is Bank in Turkey. Finansbank time site visits in 2004. IDA Ireland works closely advises that these transfers, totalling with the local educational infrastructure in the \4,809,840.37 will have value from today. These University of Limerick and Limerick Institute of transfers appear contrary to the instructions given Technology, to foster collaboration between by the account holders, namely, the Gama industry and academia with a focus on research workers who, in accordance with the SIPTU and development and new business sectors. proxy request, only wanted a statement of Shannon Development is willing to explore eli- account. I am advised by Finansbank that the gible business proposals for County Limerick and transfers from the individual accounts were is also an active member of local groups such as effected “upon instructions of our principals West Limerick Resources Limited. The agency is Gama Endustri AS that we are in receipt of an also actively involved with the Newcastle West irrevocable payment instruction from them to Chamber of Commerce and will work closely effect the below detailed transfers to the accounts with it to ensure that its resources are brought to on the Gama employees in Ireland”. bear in addressing the situation in County I am somewhat surprised at this development Limerick. Shannon Development and the local as the agreement reached with the bank provided county enterprise board are also working with the 1747 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1748

[Mr. Martin.] games and other products for their mobile Killeedy committee in County Limerick. Further- phones. more, Shannon Development is planning to There are several legal issues associated with develop a new \5 million business park in the provision of this type of service and I have Newcastle West and has also completed informed the Director of Consumer Affairs of my approvals for three new advance factories in Bal- concerns. She is investigating some of these com- lylanders, Rathkeale, and Newcastle West at a plaints in the context of the body of consumer total investment cost of \3 million. With the law for which she is responsible. I am awaiting goodwill and efforts of all involved in the area, the outcome of these investigations. the job needs of County Limerick will continue to be addressed. World Trade Negotiations. 144. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for European Directives. Enterprise, Trade and Employment if a debate 142. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for will be held in Da´il E´ ireann before the Hong Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will con- Kong meeting of the WTO, as was held before firm that the Government has now missed the Cancun; and if he will make a statement on the required legislative implementation date to give matter. [12194/05] effect to EU Directive 2002/14/EC regarding Minister of State at the Department of information and consultation with employees by Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. M. the required date of 23 March 2005; if he has had Ahern): The sixth WTO ministerial conference is communications from the EU Commission on due to take place in Hong Kong from 13 to 18 this matter; when the required legislation will be December 2005. The issue of making Da´il time published; and if he will make a statement on the available for a debate on the trade talks in matter. [12105/05] advance of the conference is a matter for the Minister of State at the Department of Chief Whip’s office. It is too early to indicate Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. definitively if such a debate will be held, given Killeen): The objective of Directive 2002/14/EC the pressure on Members’ time in terms of the is to establish a general framework setting out legislative programme. However, should such minimum requirements for the right to infor- time be available, I would welcome such a debate mation and consultation of employees in under- in the run up to the WTO trade talks. takings or establishments over a certain employee threshold within the community. Health and Safety Regulations. My Department is working closely with the 145. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to finalise Enterprise, Trade and Employment the numbers the text of the Employees (Provision of Infor- of deaths and injuries reported arising from acci- mation and Consultation) Bill 2005, which trans- dents in the construction sector in each year from poses the directive. I expect to be in a position to 2000 to 2004; the further steps he intends to take have it considered by the Government shortly to reduce the level of such accidents; and if he with a view to early publication and introduction will make a statement on the matter. [12111/05] in the Oireachtas. Minister of State at the Department of The directive was due to be transposed into Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Irish law by 23 March 2005. I have had no com- Killeen): The National Authority for Occu- munication from the European Commission in pational Safety and Health, the State body this matter. charged with overall responsibility for administration, enforcement and promotion of work- Mobile Telephony. place safety and health has provided the key fig- 143. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for ures for construction industry for the last five Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his atten- years which are set out in the table. tion has been drawn to reports that young chil- These figures show an overall increase in the dren are being enticed into signing up for con- number of accidents reported and a slight tracts for mobile phone downloads such as ring- decrease in the rate of fatalities when taken over tones and games; if the regulator will look in this a five year period. However, the expansion in area to see the additional protections which may construction employment, which has increased need to be provided for young phone owners; and from 166,300 in 2000 to 206,000 in 2004, has an if he will make a statement on the matter. effect on the number of reportable accidents. The [8217/05] increase in reported accidents can also be partly attributed to better reporting as management Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- systems are put in place and include an accident ment (Mr. Martin): I am concerned at the increas- reporting mechanism. ing number of complaints in respect of the acquis- In 2004 the Health and Safety Authority ition by both children and adults of ring-tones, inspectors visited over 5,000 construction sites 1749 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1750 and closed 26, one by court order and 25 by because of its size, the number of risks which exist agreement. The construction sector is one of the and the number of accidents in the sector. This two priority areas targeted by the authority targeting will continue in 2005.

Year 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Fatalities 15 17 21 13 15 Total Employed 166,300 180,200 188,500 190,400 206,000* Rate per 100,000 9.0 9.4 11.1 6.4 7.3* Accidents Reported 1,108 1,059 1,121 1,031 1,474* * Figures for 2004 are provisional.

Question No. 146 answered with Question Enterprise Ireland through its network of 33 No. 131. overseas offices, assists clients to create and implement successful strategies for market entry, Indigenous Enterprise. development and growth. Services provided include arranging access to international buyers 147. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for and increasing the number of in-market trade Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views on promotion activities. whether adequate opportunities are available for Success in exporting requires a product that indigenous companies to expand; and if he will can compete internationally. Effectively and cre- make a statement on the matter. [12009/05] atively using technology to develop new and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- innovative products and services based on evolv- ment (Mr. Martin): Many Irish companies, ing customer demands will be crucial to the future especially those in the traditional manufacturing success of Irish companies. Research and inno- sector, face particular difficulties in expanding vation, in product and process development, is due to productivity and competitiveness issues. critical. Consequently, Enterprise Ireland is Enterprise Ireland’s competitiveness fund was focused on driving higher levels of research and established to help increase productivity levels development activity through the rural transport initiative scheme and several research and and build competitiveness of companies development initiatives and undertakes research operating in the traditional manufacturing sector. and development awareness campaigns to Some 97 applications, to the value of \11.9 mill- encourage activity by non-research and develop- ion, were approved for these manufacturing comment performers. It also assists researchers to panies. Total investments forecast in these com- commercialise research in order to get technology panies as a result of Enterprise Ireland \ out of third level institutions and into companies investments amounted to 41 million over a two- so that they are in a position to realise new sales year period. This investment together with other opportunities. The commitment to research and Enterprise Ireland supports and services will have development is emphasised by the fact that an a considerable impact on improving the competi- annual budget of \80 million to invest in compan- tiveness of the companies and help position them ies and research institutions for market-led pro- to compete in international markets. jects is administered by Enterprise Ireland. The evolution of the global economy offers potentially limitless opportunities for indigenous Industrial Relations. companies. Exploiting the prospects offered by newer export markets such as central and eastern 148. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Europe and by countries such as China beyond Enterprise, Trade and Employment how many Ireland’s more traditional markets is critical for times he has met with management at a company future growth. However, the growth of these (details supplied); the workers who have alleg- regions has also resulted in increased competitive edly been underpaid by the company; the nature pressures for indigenous companies in sustaining of those meetings; and if he will make a statement and growing market share. Furthermore, moves on the matter. [12058/05] by multinational companies to reduce sub-sup- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- plier numbers also entail increased competition ment (Mr. Martin): The Minister for Enterprise, for some Irish firms placing increased pressure on Trade and Employment has met once with senior a possible avenue of indigenous company growth. management of the parent company overseas and Consequently, as a country with a relatively limits Irish subsidiary. The discussion was without ited domestic market for products and services, prejudice to the issues before the High Court and it is imperative that Irish companies wishing to centred on putting in place an oversight mechan- expand continue to seek opportunities to grow ism enabling workers to access monies held over- through increased internationalisation activities. seas. The Minister subsequently met with a del- Ambitious companies will need to win contracts egation of workers and their representatives and and market position in existing and new markets heard at first hand their experiences. The dis- internationally. cussion centred on accessing overseas accounts. 1751 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1752

Consumer Strategy Group. National Workplace Strategy. 149. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for 153. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín asked the Minister Enterprise, Trade and Employment when he for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the action intends to publish the report of the Consumer it is proposed to take within his Department on Strategy Group; if the report has been considered foot of the Report of the Forum on the Work- by Government; the main recommendations of place of the Future; and if he will make a state- the report; if he intends to implement the recom- ment on the matter. [9078/05] mendations of the report; and if he will make a Minister of State at the Department of statement on the matter. [12097/05] Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Killeen): An Taoiseach launched the Report of ment (Mr. Martin): The consumer strategy group the Forum on the Workplace of the Future on presented its final report to me on 2 March 2005. 9 March 2005. The report contains 42 separate The group’s report contains over 30 recommend- recommendations, which form the basis for a ations involving a variety of different Depart- national workplace strategy. The strategy aims to ments and agencies. I am considering the report create a climate conducive to supporting change and its recommendations in conjunction with my and new forms of work organisation at national colleagues in Government. I expect to publish the and organisational levels. report and will announce my plans for pro- A high level group comprising senior represen- gressing the recommendations in the coming tatives from a number of Departments, Irish Con- weeks. gress of Trade Unions, Irish Business and Employers Confederation and semi-State agen- Question No. 150 answered with Question cies and bodies will oversee the appropriate No. 81. implementation of the national workplace strategy. I have been asked by the Taoiseach to Events Ticket Sales. chair this group and I expect to convene a meeting of the group in the next few weeks. 151. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has Employment Rights. received the report from the Competition Auth- ority on the level of competition for the sale of 154. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for tickets for concerts and other events; if his atten- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the terms tion has been drawn to public concerns at the and conditions in regard to treatment of workers dominance of the market in concert and theatre that foreign-based construction companies ten- ticket sales by a small number of companies dering for public contracts in this country are whose charges seem to have no economic justifi- required to meet; if he is satisfied that all such cation; and if he will make a statement on the terms and conditions are being met; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12082/05] matter. [12099/05] Minister of State at the Department of Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. ment (Mr. Martin): I am aware of the level of Killeen): I wish to reiterate that no distinction is public concern at the market share held by cer- made in Irish employment rights legislation tain companies engaged in the sale of concert and between the terms and conditions of Irish as theatre tickets and of the allegations that the opposed to migrant workers. Section 20 of the companies may be abusing their position within Protection of Employees (Part-Time Workers) this market. Act 2001 provides, that for the avoidance of I understand that the Competition Authority, doubt, that all employee protection legislation on which is the independent expert body charged the Statute Book in Ireland applies to workers with the enforcement of competition law in the posted to work in Ireland. This is in line with State, namely the Competition Act 2002, has Directive 96/71/EC of the European Parliament received a number of formal complaints in this and the Council of 16 December 1996 concerning regard. The authority is currently conducting an the posting of workers in the framework of the investigation into the market to ascertain whether provision of services and applies also to a person, a breach of the 2002 Act has taken place. If, hav- irrespective of his or her nationality or place of ing completed its investigation, the authority residence, who has entered into a contract of believes there is evidence of a breach of the law, employment that provides for his or her being it will pursue the matter through the courts as employed in the State or who works in the State provided in the 2002 Act. under a contract of employment. Thus, all The authority has a policy of not commenting employee legislation applies to migrant workers. on investigations and accordingly, it would not be In so far as the construction industry is con- appropriate for me to comment on the investi- cerned the industry rate also known as the Joint gation either. Industrial Council Norm, JCIN, sets out agreed rates up to 31 March 2006. Since 1 April 2005 the Question No. 152 answered with Question rates range from \16.44 for a craftsperson, No. 86. through \13.15 for a basic operative to \5.48 for 1753 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1754 a first-year apprentice. I should, however, point all public buildings equipped with a flagpole, at out that the minimum rates of pay that can be half mast beginning on Sunday, 3 April 2005 until enforced by the labour inspectorate in respect of midnight on the day of the funeral and requested the construction sector are those contained in the that the flag should be similarly flown on private registered employment agreement, REA, which buildings that fly the flag. The Government also has been deposited with the Labour Court and decided to cancel the Government meeting which sets the rates of pay with effect from 3 February was due to take place in Cork on Wednesday, 6 1992 up to 1 April 1997. The rates under the April 2005 and other associated events to mark REA range from \8.09 for a craftsperson through Cork as the European City of Culture for 2005. \6.48 for a basic operative to \2.69 for a first- When Friday, 8 April 2005 was confirmed as year apprentice. the day of the Pope’s funeral, the Government The REA rate is out of line with the industry decided that any of its own workers who wished norm or JICN. However, the amendment of the to do so, would be facilitated to attend appro- REA is a matter for the parties concerned, that priate religious services on the day. In addition, is, the unions and employers. The process of it was decided to allow boards of management of revising or varying the REA rate had been schools to have the option of closing for the day delayed since 1998 on foot of judicial review proof the funeral, which would not be required to be ceedings being initiated. However, I understand made up for purposes of the school year. Schools that the REA may now be revisited following on exercising the option to close were asked to give a recent judgment in the High Court. the maximum possible notice to parents. The Government also expressed a wish that workers Official Mourning. in the private sector would be facilitated by their employers, on a voluntary basis, to participate in 155. Mr. Neville asked the Taoiseach the religious ceremonies. number and details of official days of mourning Similar observance of official mourning over the past ten years. [12339/05] occurred on the death of Popes John XXIII, Paul The Taoiseach: There is no formal definition VI and John Paul I. of a national day of mourning and therefore no Ministerial Staff. standard criteria by which to determine the form of official mourning, which has been observed in 156. Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if, in different ways, depending on the nature of the respect of the category of ministerial staff, includ- event. ing those attached to Ministers of State in his A decision to direct that the national flag be Department who not being civil servants but are flown at half mast is a form of official mourning, contracted by him as personal assistant, political as reflected in international practice. Occasions adviser, programme manager and press on which this has been ordered over the past ten communications advisers, the name of the person; years include: the death of former President their function; if full-time or part-time employed; Fran ois Mitterand, June 1996; the death of Diana, the terms of the contract; the level of remuner- Princess of Wales, September 1997; the death of ation, either by hour if part-time or as an annual Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, September 1997; salary; and if he will make a statement on the the death of Mother Theresa of Calcutta, Sep- matter. [12355/05] tember 1997; following the Omagh bombing, 157. Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if, in August 1998; the death of former Taoiseach Jack respect of each person in the employment of the Lynch, October 1999; the death of the Queen Ministerial office, including that of Ministers of Mother of the UK, April 2002; the bomb blasts State attached to his Department as either per- in Madrid, March 2004; the death of former Pres- sonal assistant, political adviser, programme man- ident Ronald Reagan, June 2004; the Beslan ager, and press communications adviser, the cost North Ossetia atrocity, September 2004; and the of travel and maintenance expenses incurred indi- South Asia tsunami, December 2004. vidually by each persons by name for the calendar The Government decided that a special year 2004; and if he will make a statement on the national day of mourning should be held on matter. [12370/05] Friday, 14 September 2001, in commemoration of The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. the victims of the terrorist attacks in the United 156 and 157 together. States on Tuesday, 11 September and as a gesture The names, functions, salaries and travel and of solidarity with the people of the United States. maintenance expenses of all political appointees in On the day, three minutes’ silence was observed. my office and the offices of the Ministers of State The Tańaiste signed an order under the Organis- at my Department and the Government press sec- ation of Working Time Act allowing businesses retariat are detailed in the following table. to close on the day. With limited exceptions such These staff are all employed on a full-time basis as emergency services, all schools, Departments and those who are civil servants are indicated. and offices were requested to close. Their terms and conditions of employment are As a mark of respect following the death of laid down under the Public Service Management His Holiness Pope John Paul II, the Government Act 1997 and all contracts are approved by the decided that the national flag should be flown, on Minister for Finance. 1755 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1756

[The Taoiseach.]

Name Job Description Annual Salary Travel Costs and Expenses Paid 2004

Gerry Hickey Programme Manager and Special Adviser 192,784 3,497.05 Gerard Howlin Special Adviser 109,244 414.37 Una Claffey Special Adviser 114,064 10,483.87 Brian Murphy Special Adviser 83,874 0.00 *Joe Lennon Special Adviser 114,064 9,361.85 Katherine Bulbulia Programme Manager to Ta´naiste 134,948 1,560.13 John Lahart Special Adviser to Minister of State and Chief Whip 71,990 0.00 Padraig Slyne Special Adviser (with responsibility for co-ordination between all Ministers of State). 55,057 2,486.01 Mandy Johnston Government Press Secretary 109,244 3,146.74 Iarla Mongey Deputy Government Press Secretary and Head of GIS 96,162 7,446.77 Sarah McLoughlin Personal Assistant 43,751 0.00 *Denise Kavanagh Personal Assistant 51,192 564.76 *Olive Melvin Personal Assistant 51,192 13,431.8 *Yvonne Graham Personal Assistant 44,936 0.00 *Sean Nolan Personal Assistant 46,119 0.00 Harry Murphy Personal Assistant to Minister of State and Government Chief Whip 40,284 530.00 Perpetua Brady Personal Secretary 30,099 0.00 Tracey Young Personal Secretary to Minister of State and Government Chief Whip 39,874 0.00 Frank Worley Usher 31,676 0.00 *denotes staff who are civil servants.

those of his predecessor in the rainbow Govern- 158. Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the number ment led by former Deputy John Bruton. My of programme managers employed by Cabinet programme manager advises me on a wide range Ministers; the frequency with which they meet; the of matters including administrative, business, reporting relationship that exists between them social, financial and economic issues. and the Taoiseach and Tańaiste; and if he will My programme manager meets other minis- make a statement on the matter. [12461/05] terial advisers on a weekly basis and reviews the papers for the Government meeting of that week. The Taoiseach: There are two programme With his colleagues, he monitors and reports to managers based in my Department. My prog- me on the implementation of the programme for ramme manager, Mr. Gerry Hickey, is employed Government. on a contract basis in line with the Civil Service Regulation Acts for the duration of the current Civil Ceremonies. Government. Ms. Katherine Bulbulia, programme manager to the Tańaiste, is employed on 159. Ms Lynch asked the Tańaiste and Minister the same basis and is also based in my for Health and Children the number of couples Department. who were married in a civil ceremony at the regis- The role of the programme managers is to try office in Cork in 2002, 2003 and 2004. assist in dealing with the complexities and volume [12289/05] of Government business. Their primary function Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children is to ensure effective co-ordination in the imple- (Ms Harney): The number of couples who were mentation of the Government’s programme. married in a civil ceremony at the registry office The terms of reference and the job description in Cork in the period 2002 to 2004 inclusive is set of my programme manager are no different than out below.

Jan-Mar Apr-Jun Jul-Sep Oct-Dec Total p/a Cumulative Total p/a

2002 84 102 152 99 437 437 2003 86 111 139 96 432 869 2004 86 121 154 119 480 1,349

Health Services. Minister for Health and Children her views on the waiting time for orthodontic assessment and 160. Mr. Deenihan asked the Tańaiste and the waiting time for orthodontic treatment for 1757 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1758 persons in need of orthodontic assessment and the unit; and when the unit will be fully com- treatment in Kerry; and if she will make a state- missioned and staffed. [12272/05] ment on the matter. [12434/05] Minister of State at the Department of Health 179. Mr. Deenihan asked the Tańaiste and and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act Minister for Health and Children the number of 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, persons in Kerry awaiting orthodontic assess- which was established on 1 January 2005. Under ment; the number of persons in Kerry awaiting the Act, the executive has the responsibility to orthodontic treatment; and if she will make a manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered statement on the matter. [12441/05] on its behalf, health and personal social services. This includes responsibility for the provision of Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children health services in the Maynooth community care (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. unit. Accordingly, my Department has requested 160 and 179 together. the chief officer for the executive’s eastern The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health regional area to investigate the matter raised and Service Executive, which was established on 1 to reply directly to the Deputy. January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has the responsibility to manage and deliver, or Ambulance Service. arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and personal social services. This includes responsi- 163. Mr. Healy asked the Tańaiste and Minister bility for orthodontic services. Accordingly, my for Health and Children when it is intended to Department has requested the chief officer for approve the location of an ambulance in the town the executive’s southern area to investigate the of Carrick-on-Suir, County Tipperary; and if she matter raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. will make a statement on the matter. [12273/05] Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children Medical Aids and Appliances. (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for 161. Mr. Stagg asked the Tańaiste and Minister the Health Service Executive, which was estab- for Health and Children if her attention has been lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the drawn to a group (details supplied) comprising of executive has the responsibility to manage and multiple sclerosis sufferers in the Celbridge area deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, of County Kildare; if her attention has further health and personal social services. This includes been drawn to the fact that this group acquired, responsibility for the provision of ambulance ser- on a temporary basis, a lifting chair which enables vices. Accordingly, my Department has requested the members to rise from their wheelchairs and the chief officer for the executive’s south eastern stand upright safely and that the health board is area to investigate the matter raised and to reply now demanding either the lifting chair be directly to the Deputy. returned or that the group pay \6,000 to purchase the apparatus; and if the multiple sclerosis group Hospital Accommodation. will be allowed to keep the lifting chair and the 164. Mr. Healy asked the Tańaiste and Minister health board will cover the cost involved. for Health and Children the position regarding [12271/05] the approval, funding and opening of the com- Minister of State at the Department of Health pleted units on the grounds of Our Lady’s Hospital, Cashel and the proposed general prac- and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act titioners unit at the hospital; and if she will make 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, a statement on the matter. [12274/05] which was established on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has the responsibility to Minister of State at the Department of Health manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act on its behalf, health and personal social services. 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, This includes responsibility for aids and which was established on 1 January 2005. Under appliances. Accordingly, my Department has the Act, the executive has the responsibility to requested the chief officer for the executive’s manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered eastern regional area to investigate the matter on its behalf, health and personal social services. raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. This includes responsibility for the provision of health services in Our Lady’s Hospital, Cashel. Hospital Accommodation. Accordingly, my Department has requested the chief officer for the executive’s south eastern area 162. Mr. Stagg asked the Tańaiste and Minister to investigate the matter raised and to reply for Health and Children the number of beds directly to the Deputy. occupied and the number of beds not in use at the Maynooth community care unit; the number Hospitals Building Programme. of staff and the categories of staff now employed at the unit; the number of staff and categories of 165. Mr. Healy asked the Tańaiste and Minister staff that remain to be appointed to provide the for Health and Children the position regarding full range of planned services for the patients at the approval, funding and opening of the acute 1759 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1760

[Mr. Healy.] schools and in special care units. I am pleased to medical unit at the South Tipperary General say that Part 11 was fully commenced on 7 Nov- Hospital, Clonmel. [12275/05] ember 2003 and that almost all of Parts 2 and 3 were commenced in September 2004. Regulations Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children for family welfare conferences and special care (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for units were also commenced in September 2004. the Health Service Executive, which was estab- The certification process of special care units is lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the under way and this requires the amendment of executive has the responsibility to manage and the regulations as a consequence of the Health deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, Act 2004. health and personal social services. This includes The sections of the Children Act 2001, which responsibility for the provision of services at the Minister for Health and Children has South Tipperary General Hospital. Accordingly, responsibility for commencing and which have my Department has requested the chief officer not yet been commenced, are sections 23D, 77 for the executive’s south eastern area to reply and 7(1)(a), 10(a) and 13(2), which relate to directly to the Deputy with the information section 77. requested. My Department is working closely with the Health Service Executive, the Departments of Mental Health Services. Education and Science and Justice Equality and 166. Mr. Kenny asked the Tańaiste and Mini- Law Reform, and the National Children’s Office ster for Health and Children the amount of in the context of the co-ordinated phased imple- Exchequer funding provided to mental health mentation of the Children Act 2001. The com- services for 2005; the increase given in 2005 in mencement of section 77, the associated sub- comparison to 2004; the allocation of the total sections and section 23D will be looked at in this funding; and if she will make a statement on the context and in the light of available resources. matter. [12292/05] Hospital Accommodation. Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): In 2004 expendi- 168. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Tańaiste and ture on mental health services was \716 million. Minister for Health and Children the number of In 2005 the estimate for spending on mental step-down beds in each of the Health Service health services as set out in the Health Service Executive regions that are being funded by her Executive Vote in the recently published Revised Department in order to alleviate over-crowding Estimates for Public Services 2005 is \766 million. in hospitals; and if she will make a statement on This equates to 7.1% of the total current Health the matter. [12296/05] \ Service Executive funding of 10.975 billion when Minister of State at the Department of Health account is taken of a once-off technical provision and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act \ of 217 million arising from the establishment of 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, that Vote. which was established on 1 January 2005. Under The Health Service Executive’s service plan for the Act, the executive has the responsibility to 2005 indicates how the total funding for mental manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered health services is to be allocated. on its behalf, health and personal social services. Accordingly, my Department has requested the Children Act 2001. national director for primary, community and 167. Ms Shortall asked the Tańaiste and Mini- continuing care of the HSE to investigate the ster for Health and Children the sections of the matter raised and to reply direct to the Deputy. Children Act 2001 for which she has responsibility and which have not yet been commenced; Ministerial Staff. and if she will report on her intentions in this 169. Mr. Quinn asked the Tańaiste and Mini- regard. [12295/05] ster for Health and Children if, in respect of the Minister of State at the Department of Health category of ministerial staff, including those and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): There are three attached to Ministers of State in her Department parts in the Children Act 2001 which specifically who not being civil servants but are contracted by relate to the health area. Part 2 establishes for the her as personal assistant, political adviser, prog- first time on a statutory basis the family welfare ramme manager and press communications conference. Part 3 amends the Child Care Act advisers, the name of the person; their function; 1991 by inserting two new parts, Part IVA, which if full-time or part-time employed; the terms of imposes duties on the Health Service Executive the contract; the level of remuneration, either by hour if part-time or as an annual salary. in relation to a child who may be in need of [12356/05] special care or protection, and Part IVB, relating to private foster care. Part 11 provides for the Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children establishment of the special residential services (Ms Harney): Details of non-civil servants con- board on a statutory basis to co-ordinate residen- tracted to work in the Tańaiste’s and Minister of tial services for children detained in detention State’s offices in the Department are set out 1761 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1762 below. All these staff work on a full-time basis. retaries perform duties assigned to them by the They are appointed to a temporary unestablished Tańaiste and Ministers of State as appropriate to position which will terminate not later than the their positions. The press officer is responsible for date on which the present Tańaiste and Ministers all press queries in relation to the whole of State cease to hold office in the Department Department. of Health and Children. Special advisers perform duties as set out in section 11 of the Public Ser- In addition to those listed below, Mr. Tom vice Management Act, 1997 which include pro- Kelly, a senior manager, who is on secondment viding advice to the Tańaiste and Minister for from the Health Services Executive, HSE, works Health and Children and monitoring, facilitating as part of my advisory team but is not contracted and securing the achievement of Government by the Department and continues to be an objectives that relate to the Department of employee of the HSE. Mr. John O’Brien is my Health and Children, as requested by the economic adviser and is on secondment from Tańaiste. Personal assistants and personal sec- Forfa´s.

Ta´naiste’s Office

Name Title Remuneration per Annum

John O’Brien Special Adviser 127,808 Oliver O’Connor Special Adviser 114,064 Patricia Ryan Special Adviser 109,244 Catherine Dardis Personal Assistant 50,065 Alan McGaughey Personal Assistant 51,119 Nuala Talbot Personal Secretary 46,119 Derek Cunningham Press Officer 105,000

Minister of State, Brian Lenihan TD

Name Title Remuneration per Annum

Maura Cosgrove Personal Assistant 43,751 Marian Quinlan Personal Secretary 38,454

Minister of State, Tim O’Malley TD

Name Title Remuneration per Annum

Sinead Teefy Personal Assistant 46,119 Mary Hayes Personal Secretary 38,454

Minister of State, Sea´n Power TD

Name Title Remuneration per Annum

Mary Freeman Personal Secretary 39,874

year 2004; and if she will make a statement on 170. Mr. Quinn asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- the matter. [12371/05] ster for Health and Children if, in respect of each person in the employment of the ministerial Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children office, including that of Ministers of State (Ms Harney): The cost of travel and subsistence, attached to her Department as either personal including the cost of airfares and hotels, incurred assistant, political adviser, programme manager, individually in 2004 for the categories requested and press communications adviser, the cost of by the Deputy are as follows: special adviser to travel and maintenance expenses incurred indi- the Minister, Deputy Martin, \8,574.26; press vidually by each persons by name for the calendar officer to the Minister, Deputy Martin, 1763 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1764

[Ms Harney.] behalf health and personal social services. This \11,463.02; and personal assistant to the Minister includes responsibility for the provision of long- of State, Deputy O’Malley, \3,162.25. term care services in the Shankill area. Accord- ingly, my Department has requested the chief Health Services. officer of the executive’s east coast area to inves- 171. Mr. Kirk asked the Tańaiste and Minister tigate the matter raised and to reply directly to for Health and Children if her attention has been the Deputy. drawn to the high call out charge for the doctor on call in certain areas of County Louth; if her Health Services. attention has further been drawn to the possi- 173. Mr. Wall asked the Minister of State at the bility that it is a contributor factor to attendance Department of Health and Children the number in accident and emergency units; and if she will of Health Service Executive areas in which make a statement on the matter. [12424/05] speech and language services to medical card hol- Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children ders are provided; the number of speech and lan- (Ms Harney): General practitioners who partici- guage therapists employed in such instances; if pate in out of hours co-operatives do not seek any any of the areas employs therapists in the private payment from medical card patients for services sector to deal with such services requirements; delivered under the general medical services and if he will make a statement on the matter. scheme whether it is delivered at a treatment [12426/05] centre or in a domiciliary setting. However, con- Minister of State at the Department of Health sultation charges which may be sought from and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act private patients who attend for treatment or to 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, whom domiciliary service is given by the partici- which was established on 1 January 2005. Under pating general practitioners are a matter of the Act the executive has the responsibility to private contract between the two parties con- manage and deliver or arrange to be delivered on cerned, the doctor as the service provider and the its behalf health and personal social services. This patient as the service user. As the Health Service includes responsibility for speech and language Executive now has the responsibility to deliver or therapy. Accordingly, my Department has arrange to be delivered on its behalf personal and requested the chief officer for the executive’s social services for eligible persons, my Depart- eastern regional area to investigate the matter ment has referred the matter to the chief officer raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. of the executive’s north-eastern area for investigation and direct reply. Health Service Staff. Nursing Home Charges. 174. Mr. Wall asked the Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children the number of clinical 172. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister of State specialists appointed by her Department since at the Department of Health and Children if his 2002; the areas of the Health Service Executive attention has been drawn to the fact that the cost that they have been assigned to; and if she will of nursing care in St. Joseph’s centre, St. John make a statement on the matter. [12427/05] of God’s Nursing Home, Crinken Lane, Shankill, which provides specific care for people with Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children Alzheimer’s, has increased by nearly 30% within (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for the past year; if he accepts that this increase is the Health Service Executive, which was estab- putting nursing home care out of the reach of lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act the individuals and families alike; and the additional executive has the responsibility to manage and support available for people in this situation. deliver or arrange to be delivered on its behalf [12425/05] health and personal social services. This includes responsibility for medical appointments. Accord- Minister of State at the Department of Health ingly, my Department has requested the national and Children (Mr. S. Power): As the Deputy will director of human resources at the HSE to inves- be aware, St. Joseph’s is a private facility offering tigate the matter raised and to reply directly to nursing care to individuals, many of whom suffer the Deputy. from terminal dementia. As the placement of an individual in a private nursing home is a private Medical Aids and Appliances. matter between the patient or his or her representative and the nursing home, my Department has 175. Mr. Wall asked the Minister of State at the no say in the fees charged by the home. Department of Health and Children the facilities As the Deputy is aware, the Health Act 2004 or funding available from his Department to per- provided for the Health Service Executive, which sons with communication problems seeking to was established on 1 January 2005. Under the Act reside independently; if warning systems or panic the executive has the responsibility to manage buttons are available to such persons who hold and deliver or arrange to be delivered on its medical card but are not of the age to avail of the 1765 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1766 care of the elderly scheme; and if he will make a the Deputy’s request to the chief officer of each statement on the matter. [12428/05] Health Service Executive area to investigate the matter and reply directly to the Deputy. Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act Speech and Language Therapist Grades by Area 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, which was established on 1 January 2005. Under Area Total the Act the executive has the responsibility to manage and deliver or arrange to be delivered on its behalf health and personal social services. This Eastern 193 includes responsibility for aids and appliances. Midland 47 Accordingly, my Department has requested the Mid-Western 26 chief officer for the executive’s eastern regional North-Eastern 37 area to investigate the matter raised and to reply North-Western 29 directly to the Deputy. South-Eastern 48 Southern 70 Health Services. Western 45 176. Mr. Wall asked the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children further to Total 495 the reply to the Adjournment debate of 14 April Source: Department of Health and Children Personnel Census 2005 and the statement that speech and language at 31 December 2004. services are essential, his plans to provide funding to the Health Service Executive to permit those Hospital Services. in need to obtain such a service while the new schools of speech and language therapy complete 178. Mr. Naughten asked the Tańaiste and the education of therapists; and if he will make a Minister for Health and Children when a person statement on the matter. [12429/05] (details supplied) in County Roscommon will be called for an operation at St. James’s Hospital, Minister of State at the Department of Health Dublin; and if she will make a statement on the and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act matter. [12440/05] 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, which was established on 1 January 2005. Under Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children the Act the executive has the responsibility to (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for manage and deliver or arrange to be delivered on the Health Service Executive, which was estab- its behalf health and personal social services. This lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act the executive has the responsibility to manage and includes responsibility for speech and language deliver or arrange to be delivered on its behalf therapy. Accordingly, my Department has health and personal social services. As the person requested the chief officer for the executive’s in question resides in County Roscommon, my south-eastern area to investigate the matter Department has requested the chief officer for raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. the executive’s western area to investigate the 177. Mr. Wall asked the Tańaiste and Minister matter raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. for Health and Children the number of speech and language therapists employed by the Health Question No. 179 answered with Question Service Executive in each of its areas; the number No. 160. of positions filled by non-EU workers in each of the past three years; the number of vacancies Health Services. within each area; and if she will make a statement 180. Mr. Connaughton asked the Tańaiste and on the matter. [12439/05] Minister for Health and Children the reason a more detailed answer to Question No. 138 of 22 Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children February 2005 has not been forwarded by the (Ms Harney): The latest available information on Health Service Executive; and if she will make a health sector employment are figures for the end statement on the matter. [12515/05] of 2004. At that time the numbers employed in Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children the speech and language therapy grades in each (Ms Harney): I understand that the Deputy has Health Service Executive area are described in received a detailed reply from the Health Service the following table with all figures expressed in Executive’s western area. whole time equivalent terms. The health service personnel census collects employment infor- College Building Projects. mation solely on the basis of grade and employing agency. It does not collect any personal infor- 181. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Finance mation on employees or gather the data on vac- if his attention has been drawn to the fact that a ancy levels requested by the Deputy. My Depart- college (details supplied) in County Sligo is a key provider of university level education with a goal ment has, therefore, forwarded these aspects of to be responsive to local, regional, national and 1767 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1768

[Mr. Perry.] Minister of State at the Department of Finance international needs; if his attention has further (Mr. Parlon): Currently the State rents approxi- been drawn to the fact that the college is planning mately 200,000 square metres of office space in additional building and modernisation projects to the Dublin area at a cost in the region of \75 meet the demands and to improve the welfare, million per annum. The length of time remaining health and safety of students and staff; if he will on each lease in the portfolio ranges from one to sanction the certification required; when it will be 20 years. The OPW advises that approximately granted; the reason for the delay; and if he will half the current lease stock is due to expire over make a statement on the matter. [12305/05] the next ten years. The particular circumstances Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): This appli- applying in each case, including the expiry date cation is being processed by officials from my of the lease and the alternative development Department in consultation with the Revenue opportunities available to the landlord, will deter- Commissioners and the Department of Education mine whether and to what extent penalties will and Science. A meeting to discuss the details of arise. the application was held some time ago and Ministerial Staff. further information will be provided and enquiries will be conducted. Upon receipt of the 183. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Finance requested information the matter will be con- if in respect of the category of ministerial staff, sidered further. including those attached to Ministers of State in his Department who are not civil servants but are Decentralisation Programme. contracted by him as personal assistant, political 182. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister of State at adviser, programme manager and press the Department of Finance if he will clarify the communications advisers, the name of the person; lease arrangements for Departments currently his or her function; whether full or part-time located in the Dublin area, including the remain- employed; the terms of the contract; and the level ing leases and annual costs associated with leas- of remuneration, either by hour if part-time or as ing; and if any penalty clauses will apply in the an annual salary. [12357/05] case of Departments being moved out of Dublin Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): The follow- as part of the decentralisation programme. ing are the details requested for my office and [12345/05] that of the Minister of State.

Name Function or Title Status Contract Terms Annual Salary

Minister’s Office Gerry Steadman Special Adviser Full-time No contract, seconded \68,651 plus 10% allowance civil servant Sinead Dooley Personal Assistant Full-time Fixed term contract to \46,119 expire when Minister ceases to hold Office. The contract contains standard terms and conditions which have been approved by my Department * Minister of State’s Office Matt Moore Personal Assistant Full-time Fixed term contract to \46,119 expire when Minister ceases to hold Office. The contract contains standard terms and conditions which have been approved by my Department * *These contracts will be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas in accordance with the Ethics in Public Office Acts.

the calendar year 2004 by certain staff in my 184. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Finance office and that of the Minister of State. In my if in respect of each person in the employment of office Mr. Gerry Steadman, a special adviser, the ministerial office, including that of Ministers \ of State, attached to his Department as either incurred 914.51. In addition Mr. Michael Fitzpatrick, personal assistant to my predecessor, personal assistant, political adviser, programme \ manager, and press communications adviser, the incurred 13,446.66 in 2004. I do not have a prog- cost of travel and maintenance expenses incurred ramme manager or press communications individually by each persons by name for the cal- adviser. In the Minister of State’s office Mr. Matt \ endar year 2004. [12372/05] Moore, a personal assistant, incurred 15,446.74. The Minister of State does not have a political Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): The follow- adviser, programme manager or press communi- ing travel and subsistence costs were incurred for cations adviser. 1769 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1770

Civil Service Staffing. come within the scope of the coast protection measure or whether it is a river flooding matter 185. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Fin- ance the number of unestablished civil servants which comes within the scope of the OPW. in the State. [12472/05] Water and Sewerage Schemes. Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): There were 2,196 unestablished civil servants serving in 189. Mr. J. Breen asked the Minister of State Departments, offices and tribunals in the State on at the Department of Communications, Marine 31 March 2005. and Natural Resources when a foreshore licence will be issued in order to allow the start of sewer- Debt Relief. age schemes (details supplied) in County Clare; and if he will make a statement on the matter. 186. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for [12285/05] Finance if he will press for the sale of IMF gold to fund the debt cancellation of the debt of poor Minister of State at the Department of countries to the IMF and the World Bank. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources [12473/05] (Mr. Gallagher): A draft foreshore licence for sewerage schemes for three of the locations in Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): The sale or question was sent to Clare County Council by the revaluation of part of IMF gold reserves to cover Department and consultants acting for the local the costs of additional debt relief has been pro- authority have responded with comments on the posed in addition to a number of other mechan- proposed conditions in the draft licence. Their isms to fund the relief of the debts of poor coun- comments are being considered by the Depart- tries. At the recent spring meetings of the IMF ment’s advisers as a priority and a recommend- and World Bank there was preliminary discussion ation on the local authority’s application will be of key issues regarding proposals for further made as soon as this examination is completed. multilateral debt relief and its financing options. The meeting called for further discussion with No applications have been received by the shareholders and examination of the issues, Department for any of the other schemes including the possible use of IMF resources, by referred to. the time of annual meetings of the IMF and World Bank in autumn. Marine Safety. 190. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Tax Collection. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources 187. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for when Kerry County Council will receive payment Finance if a P21 for 2003 will issue to a person from his Department to cover the costs of carry- (details supplied) in County Cork. [12474/05] ing out safety measures at the bathing slip in Fenit, County Kerry. [12286/05] Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iam advised by the Revenue Commissioners that they Minister of State at the Department of have reviewed the case for 2003 and that the P21, Communications, Marine and Natural Resources balancing statement, will issue shortly. (Mr. Gallagher): A foreshore licence for the bathing facilities at Fenit held by a local bathing club Coastal Protection. was surrendered to the Department and the possibility of Kerry County Council taking over 188. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister of State at the area of foreshore in question under a fore- the Department of Communications, Marine and shore lease has been considered. Kerry County Natural Resources if assistance is available for Council have been informed that the Department persons with property on river banks to assist \ with the repair of damage to buildings caused by would be prepared to provide up to 17,500 rising tides; and if he will make a statement on towards the cost of remedial and safety works the matter. [12003/05] subject to certain conditions including the accept- ance of lease terms. The Department is awaiting Minister of State at the Department of the county council’s response. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. Gallagher): Responsibility for coast protec- Ministerial Staff. tion rests with the property owner, whether a local authority or a private individual. The 191. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Department of Communications, Marine and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Natural Resources administers funding available if, in respect of the category of ministerial staff, under the coast protection measure of the including those attached to Ministers of State in national development plan for 2000 to 2006. The his Department who not being civil servants are allocation of this funding is determined by taking contracted by him as personal assistant, political into account the amount of Exchequer funding adviser, programme manager and press available for coast protection works generally and communications advisers, the name of the person; overall national priorities. It is not clear whether their function; if full-time or part-time employed; the circumstances referred to by the Deputy the terms of the contract; the level of remuner- 1771 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1772

[Mr. Quinn.] ministerial staff including those attached to the ation, either by hour if part-time or as an annual Minister of State, not being civil servants, but salary. [12358/05] contracted as personal assistant, political adviser, Minister for Communications, Marine and programme manager and press communications Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): Details of advisers are as follows:

Minister Noel Dempsey

Name Function Full/Part Time Contract Terms Remuneration

Mr. James Fegan Special Adviser to the Full Time Temporary, unestablished Principal Officer salary Minister position in the Civil Service scale (Modified PRSI) which will terminate not \71,990 (min.) to later than the date on which \89,801 (max.) the present Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., ceases to hold that office. (seconded from position as a post-primary teacher) Ms Grace Cappock Press Adviser. Full Time Temporary, unestablished Principal Officer salary position in the Civil Service scale (Modified PRSI) which will terminate not \71,990 (min) to later than the date on which \83,707 (max.) the present Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., ceases to hold that office. Ms Tanya Harrington Policy Co-ordinator Full Time Temporary, unestablished Principal Officer salary (Energy, position in the Civil Service scale (Modified PRSI) Communications and which will terminate not \71,990 (min) to Broadcasting) later than the date on which \83,707 (max.) the present Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., ceases to hold that office. Ms Margaret Conway Personal Assistant to the Full Time Temporary, unestablished Higher Executive Officer Minister position in the Civil Service salary scale (Modified which will terminate not PRSI) \39,035 (min) later than the date on which to \49,529 (2nd Long the present Minister for Service Increment) Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., ceases to hold that office. Ms Una Grehan Personal Secretary to the Full Time Temporary, unestablished Secretarial Assistant in Minister position in the Civil Service the Houses of the which will terminate not Oireachtas (Modified later than the date on which PRSI) salary scale. the present Minister for \19,499 (min.) to Communications, Marine \37,621 (2nd Long and Natural Resources, Mr. Service Increment) Noel Dempsey, T.D., ceases to hold that office.

Minister of State Pat the Cope Gallagher

Name Function Full/Part Time Contract Terms Remuneration

Ms Sinead McGowan Personal Assistant to Full Time Temporary, unestablished Higher Executive Officer Minister of State position in the Civil Service salary scale (Modified which will terminate not PRSI) \39,035 (min) later than the date on which to \49,529 (2nd Long the present Minister of Service Increment) State, Mr. Pat the Cope Gallagher, T.D., ceases to hold that office. Ms Aideen Gillen Personal Secretary, Full Time Temporary, unestablished Secretarial Assistant in Constituency Office, position in the Civil Service the Houses of the Donegal which will terminate not Oireachtas (Modified later than the date on which PRSI) salary scale. the present Minister of \19,499 (min.) to State, Mr. Pat the Cope \37,621 (2nd Long Gallagher, T.D., ceases to Service Increment) hold that office. 1773 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1774

192. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for exchanges not being DSL enabled with respect to Communications, Marine and Natural Resources access to broadband Internet; and if he will make if, in respect of each person in the employment a statement on the matter. [12415/05] of the ministerial office, including that of Mini- sters of State attached to his Department as Minister for Communications, Marine and either personal assistant, political adviser, prog- Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The pro- ramme manager, and press communications vision of telecommunications, including broad- adviser, the cost of travel and maintenance band, is a matter in the first instance for the expenses incurred individually by each persons by private sector companies operating in a fully lib- name for the calendar year 2004; and if he will eralised market regulated by the Commission for make a statement on the matter. [12373/05] Communications Regulation, ComReg. The most recent figures from the commission indicate that Minister for Communications, Marine and there are now in excess of 140,000 broadband Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The cost customers, which is almost 9% market pen- of travel and subsistence expenses incurred for etration as measured on the basis of fixed tele- the calendar year 2004 is as follows: ministerial phone lines. For comparison, the January 2004 office — Richard Moore, press adviser to the figure was 35,000. Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern — \17,275.23; According to the ComReg website www.com- Ciaran O’Cuinn, special adviser to the Minister, reg.ie there are over 45 different broadband offer- Deputy Dermot Ahern — \16,880.36; and Grace ings across a variety of technologies, including Cappock, press adviser to the Minister, Deputy DSL, fibre, cable, leased lines and satellite tech- \ Noel Dempsey — 353.58. nology. In essence, there are broadband technologies that can deliver broadband to any broad- Foreshore Developments. band customer in Ireland right now. There are 193. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for now over 130 companies listed by ComReg as Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Internet service providers. if his Department has been contacted by Dublin Costs for broadband in Ireland compare City Council, Du´ n Laoghaire-Rathdown County favourably with the EU average; competition in Council and Fingal County Council, in respect of the market is an operational matter for the their joint proposal to construct a walkway regulator. known as S2S; his response to this innovative pro- The rate of uptake is dependent on access by posal; if all statutory bodies accountable to him the service providers to suitable infrastructure. directly or indirectly responded favourably; and Because the level of investment by the sector in if he will make a statement on the matter. high-speed broadband infrastructure has failed to [12414/05] keep pace with the demand for broadband, my Minister of State at the Department of Department is addressing the infrastructure defi- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources cit, in co-operation with the local and regional (Mr. Gallagher): Consultants engaged by the authorities, by building high-speed open access local authorities referred to by the Deputy and a fibre-based metropolitan area networks, MANs, number of other public bodies made contact with in 120 towns and cities nationwide, using ERDF the Department last year with regard to an envis- and Government funding under the NDP 2000- aged preliminary design study and environmental 2006. Full details of my Department’s regional report for the proposed development. There have broadband programme can be found on been no further contacts with the Department on www.dcmnr.gov.ie. the matter in the meantime. The percentage of telephone lines which are As the proposal could give rise to foreshore suitable for DSL is an operational matter for Eir- consent applications, and as any such applications com and the regulator, and I have no function in would fall to me for determination, it would be the matter. I understand, however, that Eircom inappropriate for me to comment on it at this plans to extend DSL broadband access to 90% of juncture. It would be a matter for any body under the country by March 2006. I have set the indus- the Department’s aegis to determine its position try a target of 500,000 broadband customers by with regard to the proposal, if consulted about it. the end of 2006. The Government’s broadband target is to be Telecommunications Services. within the top half of EU countries by the end of 194. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for 2007. That means a market penetration of around Communications, Marine and Natural Resources 14% of the overall population, which I feel is if, in respect of every town here, he will provide within reach. information regarding the service provider; the level of provision; the percentage of lines which 195. Mr. Walsh asked the Minister for are suitable for DSL; the average operating cost Communications, Marine and Natural Resources for small business and the level of competition; his plans to further roll-out the metropolitan area the percentage of request for broadband rejected network to additional towns; and if he will make countrywide due to lines not being suitable or a statement on the matter. [12517/05] 1775 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1776

Minister for Communications, Marine and Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The propose to take Questions Nos. 196 to 199, inclus- MANs programme is being rolled out on a ive, together. phased basis, and the 19 networks completed to The Government has not yet taken a decision date have come in on time and within budget. on the timing of the referendum on the European Work is currently under way on seven MANs, constitution. It will be held either later this year and construction of a further 82 will commence or next year, to allow for the completion in good during the next twelve months. time of the ratification process by the target date Under the county and group broadband of 1 November 2006. The necessary preparations scheme, smaller towns and rural communities can are under way. Specifically, the Bill amending the avail of grant funding of up to 55% of set-up costs Irish Constitution will be initiated in this House to enable them to become self-sufficient in broad- in the coming weeks. band, using the most suitable technology for their There is no point in engaging in hypothetical area. The objective of the county and group discussion of the possible outcomes or con- broadband scheme is to promote the roll-out of sequences of referendums in Ireland or else- broadband access through the establishment of where. Ratification of the European constitution sustainable broadband services in towns, villages, is for each member state in accordance with its rural hinterlands and under served areas of larger own arrangements and the Government would towns on the basis of local and regional authority not presume to advise others on how to proceed. coordination and community driven initiatives. In its approach to the ratification of the European The scheme is open to all smaller and rural com- Constitution by Ireland, the Government will in munities of less than 1,500 people. It enables local all circumstances continue to be guided by the communities to draw up and implement their own national interest. broadband plans either on their own, or in part- While I do not accept the premise which nership with broadband Internet service pro- appears to underlie Question No. 196, I reiterate viders. A total of 34 group schemes have been that Ireland’s position on decision-making regarding taxation is firm and unambiguous, is approved to date. shared by several other member states, and is Under the \18 million schools broadband fully protected both in the European constitution access programme, jointly funded by the Depart- and in the existing treaties. ment of Education and Science, my Department, and the Telecommunications and Internet Feder- Ministerial Staff. ation, every one of the 4,200 primary and post- primary schools in the country will be provided 200. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Foreign with broadband by the end of this year. Affairs if, in respect of the category of ministerial Full details of the regional broadband prog- staff, including those attached to Ministers of ramme, the county and group broadband scheme State in his Department who not being Civil Ser- and the schools broadband access programme can vants but contracted by him as personal assistant, be found on my Department’s website political adviser, programme manager and press www.dcmnr.gov.ie. communications advisers, the name of the person; their function; if full-time or part-time employed; EU Constitution. the terms of the contract; the level of remuneration, either by hour if part-time or as an annual 196. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for salary; and if he will make a statement on the Foreign Affairs the choice the Government will matter. [12359/05] make if it must choose between passing the EU constitution and maintaining the unanimity 201. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if, in respect of each person in the requirement on taxation matters in the event of employment of the ministerial office, including a French “No” vote on 29 May 2005. [12467/05] that of Ministers of State attached to his Depart- 197. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for ment as either personal assistant, political Foreign Affairs if the Government will not put adviser, programme manager, and press the EU constitutional treaty to another refer- communications adviser, the cost of travel and endum vote if the Irish people vote against it. maintenance expenses incurred individually by [12469/05] each persons by name for the calendar year 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. 198. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for [12374/05] Foreign Affairs if the referendum on the proposed EU constitutional treaty will not take place Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I in 2005 and will take place in 2006. [12470/05] propose to take Questions Nos. 200 and 201 together. 199. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for The following tables set out the names of con- Foreign Affairs if, in the event of a French vote tract staff employed by me and by the Ministers against the proposed EU constitutional treaty on of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, 29 May 2005, the Government will demand that their functions and payscale and details of travel the French electorate vote again until it produces and subsistence expenses paid to them in 2004. a “Yes” vote. [12471/05] All staff are contracted under terms and con- 1777 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1778 ditions of employment set by the Minister for Fin- date on which the Minister concerned ceases to ance and are employed on a full-time basis. All hold his current office. appointments will terminate no later than the

Personal appointees employed on contract by the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Name Function/Position Salaries Travel and subsistence expenses paid in 2004

Mr. Ciara´nO´ Cuinn Special Adviser (non-established) Principal Officer (standard) scale Nil \71,990-\89,047 Mr. Richard Moore Press Adviser (non-established) Principal Officer (standard) scale Nil \71,990-\89,047 Ms Christine Maguire Personal Assistant (non-established) Higher Executive Officer Nil (standard) scale \39,035-\49,529 Ms Myra Wall Personal Secretary (non-established) Executive Officer (higher) scale Nil \25,704-\42,265

Personal appointees employed on contract by Minister of State, Mr. Conor Lenihan.

Name Function/Position Salaries Travel and subsistence expenses paid in 2004

Ms Barbara Lawlor Personal Assistant (non-established) Higher Executive Officer Nil (standard) scale \39,035-\49,529 Mr. Paddy Banks Personal Secretary (non-established) \39,035 per annum (no scale Nil applies)

Personal appointees employed on contract by Minister of State, Mr. Noel Treacy.

Name Function/Position Salaries Travel and subsistence expenses paid in 2004

Mr. Philip Hannon Press Adviser (non-established) Principal Officer (standard) scale \1,137.88 \71,990-\89,047 Ms Marian Treacy Personal Secretary (non-established) Secretarial Assistant scale Nil \19,498.62-\37,620.73 (Plus a 10% attraction allowance)

Northern Ireland Issues. 203. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for 202. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the mechanisms by which he Foreign Affairs if he has raised the sectarian monitors the incidence of sectarian attacks in the attacks on Nationalist homes in Old Throne Park Six Counties; the initiatives he has taken to con- in the Whitewell area with the British Govern- tribute to the reduction of sectarianism; and if he ment; and if he has called on Unionist and loyalist consistently raises concerns regarding recent sec- parties to use their influence to stop these tarian incidents when he meets with his British attacks. [12476/05] counterparts. [12477/05] Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): The incident to which the Deputy refers has been Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): raised through the British-Irish Intergovern- The Government consistently raises its concerns mental Secretariat in Belfast. The British at sectarian attacks through the British-Irish Government has informed us that the incident in Intergovernmental Secretariat in Belfast, at the question involved a number of youths who regular meetings of the Intergovernmental Con- climbed through a gap in the fence of Hazelwood ference and at the frequent meetings between school and then threw stones into Old Throne senior Ministers on both sides. At official level, Park. The police came to the scene and noted the we recently discussed incidents in Larne, Belfast details of several individuals. These names have and Derry with the authorities in Northern been forwarded to the youth diversion officer. The British side informed us that no damage to Ireland, with a view to ensuring every effort is property was recorded. The Government has made to prevent further incidents of this nature. been assured that the school has been secured The eradication of sectarianism is an important and the PSNI is endeavouring to find a resolution policy aim of the Government. In the declaration of the ongoing difficulties in this area, which have of support contained in the Good Friday Agree- stretched over the past number of years. ment, the Government committed itself, along 1779 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1780

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): with all the other parties, to the achievement of The Czech authorities have confirmed that Irish “reconciliation, tolerance, and mutual trust, and citizens have only to present a valid travel docu- to the protection and vindication of the human ment when entering the Czech Republic and that rights of all”. This objective is given practical there is no restriction regarding the length of val- expression by our support for the International idity of the passport. This change has been in Fund for Ireland, and also the work of the place since the 1 May 2004 and is in line with the Government’s reconciliation fund, which aims to requirements of other EU states. assist organisations involved in reconciliation 205. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Foreign work and which has awarded grants exceeding Affairs the location of Irish diplomatic missions \15.1 million to more than 480 organisations which have an Ireland House; the total oper- between 1999 and 2004. The Government also ational cost of each Ireland House; the State strongly supports community-based policing in agencies which are operating from each Ireland Northern Ireland as the key to the creation of House; and if he will make a statement on the a safer society where the fear of sectarian and matter. [12481/05] paramilitary attacks would become a thing of the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): past. It has closely monitored the implementation The State agencies operating in Irish diplomatic of the Patten recommendations in close liaison missions are listed in the following table. The with the Oversight Commissioner for Policing, total operational cost given are for the year 2004 Mr. Al Hutchinson. and include chancery costs. The State agencies share of this cost is provided. Operational costs Diplomatic Representation. are taken to mean rent, rates, heating, lighting, cleaning, common charges, etc. It does not 204. Mr. Kirk asked the Minister for Foreign include salary, telephone or information tech- Affairs if his attention has been drawn to the nology equipment costs. However, in some requirement that a minimum of 90 days expiry instances only the rent costs are available with remain on a visitor’s passport to the Czech such short notice. It is the policy of my Depart- Republic after the date of return; if represen- ment to contact State agencies when embassies tations have been made to the authorities in that are being established in new locations to ascertain country; and if he will make a statement on the their interest in participating in an Ireland House matter. [12480/05] project in these new locations.

Location Total Operational Cost State Agencies Agencies Share (\) (including chancery costs)

1. New York 1,349,528 Tourism Ireland 958,974 Enterprise Ireland IDA Shannon Development C.I.E. Aer Lingus 2. Tokyo 695,987 Enterprise Ireland 314,032 IDA Aer Lingus 3. Madrid 363,362 Enterprise Ireland 140,421 Bord Bia Tourism Ireland BIM 4. Seoul 179,818 (rent only) Enterprise Ireland 53,940 IDA 5. Beijing 234,960 (rent only — combined chancery Enterprise Ireland 5,551 and residence compound) 6. Budapest 325,000 Enterprise Ireland 65,000 7. Kuala Lumpur 60,038 Enterprise Ireland 11,500 8. Moscow 576,469 (combined chancery and residence Enterprise Ireland 20,176 compound) 9. Prague 117,172 Enterprise Ireland 29,293 10. Warsaw 90,340 Enterprise Ireland 25,295 11. Washington No rent payable as chancery owned by the Enterprise Ireland 0 State 12. Shanghai 127,809 Enterprise Ireland 11,685 13. Brussels 214,959 (embassy to Belgium) Enterprise Ireland 38,693 1781 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1782

206. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Foreign Cairo Chancery Affairs the Irish embassies and chancelleries that Cairo Residence are owned and rented by the State; and if he will Cape Town Chancery make a statement on the matter. [12482/05] Cape Town Residence Cardiff Consulate General Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): A Chicago Consulate General Dar-es-Salaam Chancery total of 17 official residences, seven chanceries Edinburgh Consulate General and three combined chancery-residence premises Geneva Permanent Representation to the UN are owned by the State. The full list is shown in Geneva Residence annex 1. The list of diplomatic premises rented Helsinki Chancery abroad is given in annex 2. It is the policy of my Helsinki Residence Kampala Chancery Department to purchase representational offices Kampala Residence and official residences abroad where resources Kuala Lumpur Chancery allow and where market conditions and value for Kuala Lumpur Residence money considerations favour purchase over Lisbon Chancery rental. This policy is kept under constant review. London combined Chancery/Residence Ljubljana Chancery Ljubljana Residence Annex 1 Lusaka Residence Embassy Properties Owned by the State Luxembourg Chancery Athens Residence Luxembourg Residence Berlin Residence Madrid Chancery Berne Residence Maputo Residence Brussels Permanent Representation to the EU Maseru (Lesotho) Chancery Brussels Residence (Ambassador to Political Security Maseru Residence Committee) Mexico City Chancery Buenos Aires Residence Mexico City Residence Canberra Chancery Moscow combined Chancery/Residence Canberra Residence New Delhi Chancery Copenhagen Chancery New Delhi Residence Copenhagen Residence New York Consulate-General Dar-es-Salaam Residence New York Residence (Consul General) The Hague Chancery New York Permanent Representation to the UN The Hague Residence Nicosia Chancery Holy See combined Chancery/Residence Nicosia Residence Lisbon Residence Oslo Chancery Lusaka Chancery Ottawa Chancery Madrid Residence Prague Chancery Maputo Chancery Pretoria Chancery New York Residence (Permanent Representative to the Pretoria Ewsidence UN) Ramallah Representation Oslo Residence Ramallah Residence Ottawa Residence Rome Chancery Paris combined Chancery/Residence Rome Residence Prague Residence San Francisco Consulate General Riyadh combined Chancery/Residence Seoul Chancery Stockholm Residence Seoul Residence Washington Chancery Shanghai Consulate General Washington Residence Singapore Chancery Singapore Residence Annex 2 Stockholm Chancery Embassy Properties Rented by the State Strasbourg Representation to Council of Europe Abuja combined Chancery/Residence Strasbourg Residence Addis Ababa Chancery Sydney Consulate General Addis Ababa Residence Tallinn Chancery Ankara Chancery Tallinn Residence Ankara Residence Tehran Chancery Athens Chancery Tehran Residence Beijing combined Chancery/Residence Tel Aviv Chancery Berlin Chancery Tel Aviv Residence Berne Chancery Tokyo Chancery Boston Consulate General Tokyo Residence Brasilia Chancery Vienna Chancery Brasilia Residence Vienna Residence Bratislava Chancery Warsaw Chancery Bratislava Residence Warsaw Residence Brussels Chancery (Embassy to Belgium) Brussels Residence (Ambassador to Belgium) 207. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Foreign Brussels Residence (Permanent Representative to the EU) Affairs the average operating cost of an Irish Brussels Residence (Deputy Permanent Representative to embassy in a European country consisting of an the EU) Budapest Chancery ambassador, a first secretary, third secretary and Budapest Residence support staff; and if he will make a statement on Buenos Aires Chancery the matter. [12483/05] 1783 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1784

208. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Foreign constraints on Government expenditure, and the Affairs the programme which his Department has limits on the resources that can be made avail- for the establishment of new diplomatic embass- able, require that the expansion of our diplomatic ies and delegations in countries in which Ireland network must be incremental and must be based is not currently represented by full-time pro- on a thorough assessment of the costs and fessional diplomats; and if he will make a state- benefits involved. ment on the matter. [12484/05] Ministerial Staff. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I 209. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Arts, propose to take Questions Nos. 207 and 208 Sport and Tourism if, in respect of the category together. of ministerial staff, including those attached to There are six Irish Embassies in Europe with a Ministers of State in his Department who not staffing contingent made up of an ambassador, a being civil servants but are contracted by him as first secretary, a third secretary and support staff. personal assistant, political adviser, programme These embassies are located in Austria, Belgium, manager and press communications advisers, the Denmark, Greece, the Netherlands and Turkey. name of the person; their function; if full-time or The average operating cost for these missions in part-time employed; the terms of the contract; the 2004 was \1,002,966.90. Expenditure incurred level of remuneration, by hour if part time or as during Ireland’s Presidency of the European an annual salary; and if he will make a statement Union from 1 January to 30 June 2004 is included on the matter. [12360/05] in the figure provided. In December 2004, the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Government approved the opening of resident O’Donoghue): Three ministerial staff have been missions in Malta, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, appointed in my Department. The terms of the Romania and Vietnam. It is intended that these contracts for both my personal assistant and my new missions will be opened in the second half of personal secretary are in line with those for unes- this year. The opening of new Irish missions is tablished civil servants. The conditions applicable considered by the Government on an ongoing to my special adviser are in line with those for basis. As the Deputy will appreciate, however, established civil servants.

Name Role Full Time or Level of remuneration Part Time

Mr. Tony Cotter Special Adviser Full Time Principal Officer Standard Scale plus a 10% attraction allowance Mr. Colin Miller Personal Assistant Full Time Higher Executive Officer Standard Scale Ms Mary O’Connell Personal Secretary Full Time Secretarial Assistant Scale plus a 10% attraction allowance

My Department is in compliance with the communications adviser, the cost of travel and Department of Finance guidelines regarding min- maintenance expenses incurred individually by isterial appointments. each persons by name in 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12375/05] 210. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Arts, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Sport and Tourism if, in respect of each person O’Donoghue): The information requested by the in the employment of the ministerial office, Deputy in respect of the persons appointed by me including that of Ministers of State attached to and employed as special adviser, personal assist- his Department as personal assistant, political ant and personal secretary is set out in the follow- adviser, programme manager, and press ing table.

Position Appointee Travel Expenses Incurred Subsistence Expenses Incurred 2004 2004

\\ Special Adviser Mr. Tony Cotter 11,225 2,009 Personal Assistant Mr. Colin Miller 5,731 6,314 Personal Secretary Ms Mary O’Connell Nil Nil

There is no Minister of State attached to my County Roscommon under the sports capital Department. programme; when he plans to make a decision on the application; and if he will make a statement Sports Capital Programme. on the matter. [12407/05] 211. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Arts, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Sport and Tourism if he will approve funding for O’Donoghue): The national lottery-funded sports an application from a centre (details supplied) in capital programme, which is administered by my 1785 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1786

Department, allocates funding to sporting and 2004. The closing date for receipt of applications community organisations at local, regional and was 4 February 2005. No application was received national level. The programme is advertised from the club in question under the programme. annually. It is open to the club, should it wish to do so Applications for funding under the 2005 prog- and should it have a project which satisfies the ramme were invited through advertisements in terms and conditions of the sports capital prog- the press on 5 and 6 December last. The closing ramme, to submit an application when the 2006 date for receipt of applications was 4 February round of the programme is publicly advertised. 2005. All applications received before the deadline, including one from the organisation in ques- Culture Ireland. tion, are currently being evaluated against the programme’s assessment criteria, which are out- 214. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Arts, lined in the guidelines, terms and conditions of Sport and Tourism the progress on the establish- the programme. I intend to announce the grant ment of Culture Ireland, the new semi-State allocations for the programme as soon as possible agency; and if he will make a statement on the after the assessment process has been completed. matter. [12412/05] Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. National Aquatic Centre. O’Donoghue): On 24 February, I announced the 212. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Arts, establishment of a new body for the promotion Sport and Tourism the position of the repairs at of Irish arts abroad to be known as “Culture the National Aquatic Centre; the proposed date Ireland”. The specific activities of Culture Ireland for the completion of the repairs; the cost of such may include, but are not confined to: grant-giving repairs; and if he will make a statement on the to Irish artists or arts organisations in response matter. [12409/05] to applications received for such assistance and evaluated in accordance with transparent criteria Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. to be determined and published by Culture O’Donoghue): Campus and Stadium Ireland Ireland; funding and facilitation of Irish partici- Development Limited has informed me that its pation at strategic international arts events; man- structural engineers have received information aging of special emblematic cultural and artistic from the contractors, Rohcon Limited, that the events or activities either in Ireland or abroad as repairs to the National Aquatic Centre are required by the Minister for Arts, Sport, and expected to be completed by 20 May 2005, save Tourism; giving advice to me as Minister on inter- for the neon lighting, which has a seven-week national arts and cultural affairs. delivery period. This is the circular strip of light- Within 12 months of its establishment, Culture ing that surrounds the roof of the leisure waters, Ireland is to submit to me a strategic plan for the and Rohcon has confirmed that it is to be discharging of this remit over the following three installed on top of the flume tower from 23 May years. The first formal meeting of Culture Ireland to 10 June 2005. CSID has asked Rohcon to use was held on 7 April. all necessary resources to ensure that the dates are met, if not improved upon. EU Directives. The cost of the repairs is a matter between the ´ contractor and the insurers. 215. Aengus O Snodaigh asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if the I look forward to the completion of the works Government will allow a debate and vote in Da´il and the reopening of the centre as soon as E´ ireann on the proposed EU services directive possible. before it is agreed; and if not, when such a debate and vote will take place. [12468/05] Sports Funding. 213. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Arts, Sport and Tourism if a football club (details ment (Mr. Martin): The Government would wel- supplied) in Dublin 3 will be given financial sup- come a debate about the proposed directive, on port and advice for its members; and if he will which discussions are continuing in the Council make a statement on the matter. [12410/05] working group and in the European Parliament. My Department gave a presentation on the draft Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. directive to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on O’Donoghue): The national lottery-funded sports Enterprise and Small Business on 5 March, but capital programme administered by my Depart- the views of all Deputies on this important pro- ment is the primary means of providing funding posal would be particularly welcome. for sporting facilities to clubs and voluntary and My Department has been, and is, engaged in community organisations throughout the country. widespread and detailed consultation with other A total of more than \331 million has been allo- Departments and with interested parties to make cated in grant funding to over 4,200 projects an effective input to the discussions. Advertise- since 1998. ments were placed in the media last year seeking The programme is advertised annually. The written submissions from service users and pro- 2005 sports capital programme was advertised in ducers who would potentially be affected by the the national newspapers on 5 and 6 December directive. The Department also wrote to approxi- 1787 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1788

[Mr. Martin.] labour inspectors were augmented by a further mately 50 stakeholder organisations last year seven. Subsequently, the grade level of the informing them of the existence of the draft inspectors was increased from clerical officer to directive and seeking their comments on it. We executive officer. A further four inspectors were repeated the invitation late last year, when we appointed on foot of the mid-term review of Sus- informed the same organisations that the Depart- taining Progress last June, and, as I have said, an ment had dedicated a part of its website, at additional 11 inspectors will be appointed. As the www.entemp.ie, to the draft directive. My Depart- House can see, those increases in resources are in ment has had discussions with the social partners direct response to identified needs and interac- about the draft directive and expects to have tion with the social partners. further discussions with them. Arising from the mid-term review of Sustaining Ireland, together with all other member states Progress agreed by all parties in June 2004, the of the EU, is very supportive of the objective of inspectorate was asked to draw up a discussion the proposed directive, which is to create a document on the mandate and resourcing of the genuine Single Market in services throughout the Labour Inspectorate for the social partnership EU. However, like all member states, we have process. The discussion document is not prescrip- concerns about many aspects of the current pro- tive; rather it seeks to present the arguments for posal, which is a long way from being adopted. and against an extensive range of issues impacting Services account, in the EU, for up to 70% of on the mandate and associated resourcing of the GNP and employment, and the creation of a Labour Inspectorate and its linked business units. genuine European Single Market would yield A spectrum of possible models for compliance enormous benefits for the European — and Irish checking and enforcement have been identified — services sectors. It would also be a big plus for and were presented for discussion. The purpose consumers, in Ireland and throughout the Euro- of their inclusion is primarily to stimulate debate pean Union. It is clear that where competition and signal that fundamental changes in approach and more suppliers are introduced into an econ- should be considered. Some views have been omic sector, consumers benefit. received from the social partners, while others are awaited. Departmental Agencies. 216. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for National Minimum Wage. Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will 217. Mr. J. Breen asked the Minister for amend his reply of 24 February 2005 to questions Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will regarding increasing the powers and number of investigate the rates of pay of personnel working labour inspectors, in view of the recent report by in small post offices to ensure that they are paid inspectors and of the string of recent cases of at least the national minimum wage; and if he will abuse of workers’ rights; if he will continue to make a statement on the matter. [12282/05] maintain that the current slow augmentation of the labour inspectorate’s resources and the fail- Minister of State at the Department of ure to increase its powers are adequate; and if he Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. will make a statement on the matter. [12453/05] Killeen): The Retail Grocery and Allied Trades Joint Labour Committee has, as and from 16 Minister of State at the Department of March 2004, set down the rates of remuneration Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. and conditions of employment by way of a Killeen): I do not consider that my replies of 24 employment regulation order dated 8 March February need to be amended, as the investi- 2004. Persons covered by that employment regu- gation of the labour inspectorate into a particular lation order are entitled to the terms and con- company in the construction sector was ongoing. ditions therein. The pay rates currently applicable The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- for an adult worker range from \7.51 to \8.08 per ment did not receive the report of the labour hour. All workers over 18 or those not in training inspectorate until 6 April. should receive the national minimum wage, which Since the Minister received the report he has currently stands at \7 per hour. That rate will been active with the management of the com- increase to \7.65 per hour from 1 May 2005. pany, the workers and has kept the Oireachtas Should the Deputy know of any instances abreast of developments. where people are not receiving the above rates, I An additional 11 staff for the labour inspector- urge him to get in touch with the labour inspec- ate have been announced. They will place a spec- torate, which would immediately investigate. ific emphasis on sectors where migrant workers are concentrated. This significant increase, 50%, Unemployment Levels. will allow the inspectorate to do a great deal more of what it does best — ensuring compliance 218. Mr. Healy asked the Minister for with the law and ensuring workers get their Enterprise, Trade and Employment the steps he entitlements. Additional staff are appointed to has taken and the steps he intends to take to the labour inspectorate on foot of developments address the very serious unemployment levels in in the workplace. With the introduction of the the town of Carrick-on-Suir; the steps which have national minimum wage in 1997, the existing ten been taken by the industrial promotion agencies 1789 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1790 to bring industry to the town, including the immediate vicinity and surrounding areas, includ- number of site visits arranged by those agencies, ing those living in Carrick-on-Suir. by prospective industries; and if he will now IDA Ireland has a five-acre site in Carrick-on- establish a jobs task force to address the jobs Suir, and discussions are ongoing with South crisis in the town. [12283/05] Tipperary County Council regarding the develop- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment of the site to help generate economic ment (Mr. Martin): Support for job creation and activity in the town. investment on a regional or local basis comes Since its establishment in 1993, Tipperary South Riding County Enterprise Board has pro- within the remit of the industrial development \ agencies IDA Ireland, which is actively marketing vided over 448,000 in financial aid to 40 projects in the Carrick-on-Suir area, which in turn has individual areas as a location for additional for- assisted in the creation of 67 full-time jobs. The eign direct investment, and Enterprise Ireland, board has run management development courses which is concentrating on the development of and targeted training courses on starting one’s indigenous industries, with the 35 city and county own business, web design, front office skills and enterprise boards, or CEBs, having primary IT training in Carrick-on-Suir town. Over 110 responsibility for the regional promotion of people have been directly trained on those prog- indigenous industry in the micro-enterprise sec- rammes. While the majority of current training tor. Under the Industrial Development Acts, I programmes are organised in Clonmel, a signifi- may give general policy directives to IDA Ireland cant number of businesses availing of those prog- and Enterprise Ireland, but I am precluded from rammes come from the Carrick-on-Suir area. giving directives regarding individual undertak- Enterprise Ireland is actively involved in ings or from giving preference to one area over addressing industrial development in Tipperary others. South through the county development board The development agencies have assured me and through working closely with the other that they are working to secure additional invest- development agencies in the county, including ment and jobs for the people of South Tipperary, IDA, FA´ S, and the county enterprise board. In including those living in Carrick-on-Suir. addition to direct finance, Enterprise Ireland has While the IDA has not hosted any recent site a range of service offerings to encourage high- visits by prospective investors to Carrick-on-Suir, technology, high-opportunity indigenous there have been 11 such visits to the surrounding enterprise to get off the ground. Key support area in the past 12 months. The IDA is currently areas include project-building, mentoring, train- supporting two overseas companies in Carrick- ing, space, patent protection advice and business on-Suir. While they are also promoting the town angels. for additional overseas investment through their Specific State support to facilitate those who network of overseas offices, their experience of are unemployed to join or re-enter the labour dealing with clients looking at Ireland is that force is provided by FA´ S, the national training many companies will only consider larger urban and employment authority. FA´ S offers skills centres that have the scale, infrastructure and ser- analysis, training and retraining programmes and vices capable of sustaining their investment. Ulti- a job placement service for those who are unem- mately, it is the investor who decides where to ployed and is sponsoring a jobs club in the locate a project, including what areas to visit as enterprise centre in Carrick-on-Suir. That last potential locations. initiative is aimed at increasing the skills levels of IDA Ireland’s response to this experience in those concerned. The agency also works closely the South Tipperary-Waterford area has been to with the Carrick-on-Suir RAPID steering com- concentrate the main focus of its marketing cam- mittee. RAPID is a special designation project paign on the gateway location of Waterford and for areas of high deprivation aimed at estab- the county town of Clonmel. It is doing so to lishing innovative actions that aid growth and maximise the number of overseas companies that social and economic inclusion in the designated can be attracted to the area and to avail of the areas. knock-on benefits in other sectors such as supply, In addition, I would like to point out that the distribution and transport, thus creating further numbers on the live register in the Carrick-on- investment and employment opportunities for Suir area fell from 971 in February 2004 to 910 in local people in the immediate vicinity and sur- February 2005, which reflects a positive trend. rounding areas. I welcome the initiative of the Tipperary South I am informed by the agency that it believes county manager last October in setting up a local Carrick-on-Suir can benefit from that strategy, working group to deal with unemployment issues given its close proximity to both Waterford and in Carrick-on-Suir and to prepare a development Clonmel. The announcement in May 2004 by plan for the area under the auspices of the county Guidant Corporation of a 1,000-person job development board. expansion at its Clonmel plant should have considerable knock-on benefits in other investment Question No. 219 answered with Question and employment opportunities for people in the No. 101. 1791 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1792

Ministerial Staff. advisers, the name of the person; their function; if full-time or part-time employed; the terms of 220. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for the contract; the level of remuneration, either by Enterprise, Trade and Employment, regarding hour, if part-time, or as an annual salary; and if he the category of ministerial staff, including those will make a statement on the matter. [12361/05] attached to Ministers of State in his Department who are not civil servants but contracted by him Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- as personal assistant, political adviser, prog- ment (Mr. Martin): The table below sets out ramme manager and press communications details regarding my private office.

Name Title Function Full-time/ Terms of Contract Remuneration part-time (Per annum)

Deirdre Gillane Policy Adviser To provide advice Full-time The appointment is 81,431 and assistance to strictly temporary Minister. and will terminate not later than the date on which I cease to hold office Christopher Mannion Special Adviser To provide advice Full-time As above 82,193 and assistance to Minister. Caitriona Meehan Press Adviser To provide advice Full-time As above 78,075 and assistance to Minister. Melanie Hewitt Personal Assistant Perform general Full-time As above 24,350 secretarial duties including duties relating to the handling of inquiries made to the offices. Ann Donnelly Personal Assistant As above Part-time As above 12,476.50 Elizabeth O’Donoghue Personal Secretary As above Full-time As above 41,381

The table below sets out details in respect of Mr. Tony Killeen, Minister for Labour Affairs.

Name Title Function Full-time/ Terms of Contract Remuneration part-time (Per annum)

\ Pat Daly Personal Assistant Perform general Full-time The appointment is 46,119 secretarial duties strictly temporary including duties and will terminate relating to the not later than the handling of date on which inquiries made to Minister Killeen the offices. ceases to hold office

The table below sets out details in respect of Mr. Michael Ahern, T.D., Minister for Trade and Commerce:

Name Title Function Full-time/ Terms of Contract Remuneration part-time (Per annum)

Colm Leahy Personal Assistant Perform general Full-time The appointment is 41,389 secretarial duties strictly temporary including duties and will terminate relating to the not later than the handling of date on which inquiries made to Minister Ahern the offices. ceases to hold office

of each person in the employment of the minis- 221. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for terial office, including that of Ministers of State Enterprise, Trade and Employment if, in respect 1793 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1794 attached to his Department as either personal Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- assistant, political adviser, programme manager, ment (Mr. Martin): Details sought by the Deputy and press communications adviser, the cost of in respect of persons in the specified categories travel and maintenance expenses incurred indi- who were in the employment of the offices of vidually by each persons by name for the calendar Ministers and Ministers of State at the Depart- year 2004; and if he will make a statement on the ment of Enterprise, Trade and Employment dur- matter. [12376/05] ing the calendar year 2004 are as follows:

Office of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin

(29 September 2004 to 31 December 2004)

Name Title Travel Subsistence

\\ Ms Catriona Meehan Press Adviser 2,927.29 — Mr. Christopher Mannion Special Adviser 675.78 750.72

Office of the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney

(1 January 2004 to 28 September 2004)

Name Title Travel Subsistence

\\ Ms Catherine Dardis Personal Assistant 937.67 — Mr. Oliver O’Connor Special Adviser 370.96 — Mr. John O’Brien Special Adviser 527.25 1,060.57

Office of the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with responsibility for labour affairs, Deputy Fahey

(1 January 2004 to 28 September 2004)

Name Title Travel Subsistence

\\ Claudia McCarthy Personal Assistant 1,198.82 2,154.33 Vivienne Heffernan Personal Assistant 338.95 —

Office of the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with responsibility for trade and commerce, Deputy Michael Ahern

(1 January 2004 to 31 December 2004)

Name Title Travel Subsistence

\\ Mr. Colm Leahy Personal Assistant 1,663.43 193.84

Office of the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with responsibility for labour affairs, Deputy Killeen*

(29 September 2004 to 31 December 2004)

Name Title Travel Subsistence

\\ —— — — *No expenses were paid in respect of the categories referred to in the question.

Employment Support Services. Enterprise, Trade and Employment further to 222. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Question No. 270 of 22 March 2005, the way in 1795 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1796

[Mr. Stanton.] administrative matter for the agency concerned which the Government supports and encourages and not one in which I have a direct function. existing small and medium indigenous Irish busi- The 140 Enterprise Ireland supported compan- nesses which do not form part of the manufactur- ies mentioned in my previous reply are located in ing or internationally traded services sector; and east Cork. As the Forfa´s employment survey for if he will make a statement on the matter. 2004 has now become available, I can provide the [12401/05] most recent data. In 2004, there were 13 Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Enterprise Ireland supported companies in Cobh, ment (Mr. Martin): The small and medium sized while there were seven Enterprise Ireland sup- enterprise sector is supported and encouraged by ported companies in Youghal. For purposes of the Government’s active and constant pursuit and clarity, only companies in the Cobh and Youghal promotion of an economic environment that is urban districts have been included in the figures, supportive of entrepreneurial activity, combined which exclude nearby towns such as Carrigtwohill with a wide range of targeted interventions by and Midleton, in the case of Cobh, and Castle- various State enterprise development agencies. martyr, Shanagarry and Ballymacoda, in the case The strong focus of many of the interventions, of Youghal. particularly those involving financial support, on In 2004, Enterprise Ireland supported compan- businesses in the manufacturing or internationally ies in Youghal were approved assistance of traded services sector reflects the key importance \27,400 and such supported companies in Cobh that the sector plays in building Irish economic were approved assistance of \5,500. Overall growth, as well as concerns about the strong risks approvals for Enterprise Ireland assisted compan- of deadweight and displacement that are a parties in Cobh and Youghal from 2002 to 2004 icular concern in the non-traded services sector. amounted to \257,462. Payment for the same It is not appropriate to give financial aid to a local period to Enterprise Ireland assisted companies service in circumstances in which the increased in Cobh and Youghal amounted to \503,059. activity arising from the support is likely to be Grant approval is spread over a variety of pro- achieved at the expense of other similar busi- jects, including capital, research and develop- nesses in the locality. ment, feasibility and management. Employment Ireland’s extraordinary success in the past dec- in Enterprise Ireland supported companies in ade has been and continues to be built on key Cobh for 2004 was 287, representing a slight competitive strengths, such as one of the lowest increase over the 2003 figure of 278. Employment taxation regimes in Europe, access to the EU figures in Enterprise Ireland supported compan- internal market, a well-educated and skilled ies in Youghal showed a slight decrease from 90 workforce and a history of Government policies in 2003 to 85 in 2004. that are pro-business and provide a benign business environment. The Government is committed Job Creation. to the continued support and development of such strengths. It appears that the actions being 224. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for taken are achieving the objective of ensuring that Enterprise, Trade and Employment further to we have an environment in which small and Question No. 135 of 16 December 2004, if IDA medium sized enterprises can flourish. The global Ireland has any specific programme in place to entrepreneurship monitor report for 2004, which promote Youghal and Cobh to potential inves- is the premier cross-national assessment of tors; if any negotiations are under way; if not , if entrepreneurship, shows that Ireland is per- IDA Ireland has any plan to put such a prog- forming extremely well in terms of entrepren- ramme in place; and if he will make a statement eurship activity. It is in second position overall in on the matter. [12403/05] terms of total entrepreneurial activity among all Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- EU member states. ment (Mr. Martin): IDA Ireland has statutory Job Protection. responsibility for the attraction of foreign direct investment to all regions and areas of Ireland. 223. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for While I may give general policy directives to IDA Enterprise, Trade and Employment further to Ireland, I am precluded under legislation from Question No. 135 of 16 December 2004, the giving directives about individual undertakings or number of the 140 Enterprise Ireland supported giving preference to one area over others. As I companies in County Cork which are based in stated in my reply of 16 December last, I under- Youghal; the number based in Cobh; the amount stand from IDA Ireland that Cobh and Youghal of funding allocated to the companies; the are marketed by IDA Ireland’s south-west region number of persons they employ; and if he will as part of the broader east Cork area, which also make a statement on the matter. [12402/05] includes locations such as Little Island, Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Carrigtwohill, Midleton, Carrigaline and Ringas- ment (Mr. Martin): I reiterate that the decision kiddy. IDA Ireland is promoting east Cork to to provide support to a particular company is an potential investors on an ongoing basis. Every 1797 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1798 effort is being made to secure further advanced if he will make a statement on the matter. knowledge-based industry for the east Cork area. [12433/05] Due to their proximity to the greater Cork 230. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for area, Cobh and Youghal also benefit from con- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his atten- tinued development from an inward investment tion has been drawn to the recent statements by perspective. There are 134 IDA Ireland assisted Tralee Chamber of Commerce, County Kerry, companies in County Cork, employing approxi- expressing grave concern at the loss of jobs in the mately 18,000 people. Between 2002 and 2004, town and the failure by the IDA to bring a major 50% of all jobs announced in Cork came from industry to the town in the past five years; the companies locating in the broader east Cork area, action his Department and the IDA propose to thereby making the area the prime beneficiary take to create jobs in the town; and if he will from inward investment in the south-west region. make a statement on the matter. [12450/05] In Cork, as elsewhere, there is a need to mobilise initiatives and resources on a regional rather than Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- on a purely local basis, to compete effectively ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions with other strong regions, cities and countries. In Nos. 226 and 230 together. this context we must not forget that the investor IDA Ireland has statutory responsibility for ultimately decides where to locate. I am confident attracting foreign direct investment to all regions that the strategies and policies being pursued by and areas of Ireland. Under the Industrial IDA Ireland, along with the Government’s Development Acts, I may give general policy ongoing commitment to regional development, directives to the agency but I am precluded from will bear fruit in terms of additional sustainable giving directives about individual undertakings or investment and jobs in this region. giving preference to one area over others. One of 225. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for the agency’s major objectives is the achievement Enterprise, Trade and Employment further to of balanced regional development. The national Question No. 135 of 16 December 2004, the spatial strategy provides a framework for the number of participants and the number of busi- achievement of this objective through the prior- nesses participating in training initiatives itisation of development and investment in the operated by the South Cork Enterprise Board in locations which have been identified as gateways Youghal and Cobh over the past two years; the and hubs. success of these initiatives in creating new jobs; IDA Ireland’s strategy for County Kerry is to and if he will make a statement on the matter. achieve developments in the international ser- [12404/05] vices and ICT sectors, focusing on the designated linked hubs of Tralee and Killarney. While tar- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- geting potential new projects, the agency is work- ment (Mr. Martin): Some 200 people, including ing with its existing portfolio of companies in the 20 participants from Youghal and Cobh, partici- region with a view to supporting such companies pated in training programmes organised by the with potential expansions and diversification of south Cork county enterprise board in 2003 and activities. While employment levels in assisted 2004. The board operates clinics every month in companies in Tralee and the county as a whole Youghal and Cobh. The training and other soft have decreased since 2003, foreign direct invest- supports provided to micro-enterprises by the ment companies are performing relatively well county enterprise boards are designed to assist when considered in the context of the recent glo- new and existing enterprises in improving the bal downturn and the effects of the events of 11 efficiency and effectiveness of their operations, September 2001, which resulted in fewer compan- through the development and improvement of a ies actively seeking to invest overseas. range of business skills. While such support con- The regrettable demise of companies such as tributes positively to the long-term growth and Sports Socks and Imperial Schrade resulted sustainability of the enterprises, it is not possible mainly from the fact that Ireland is less competi- directly to relate participation in training and tive for basic manufacturing operations. County mentoring initiatives to the creation of new jobs. Kerry and all other parts of Ireland must gear The number of jobs in enterprises supported by themselves to attracting a different type of inves- the south Cork county enterprise board, in the tor. The focus for the future must be on attracting form of financial assistance or soft supports, has investment that requires high skill levels and is increased by 32 since 2003. more orientated on innovation than on production. Job creation and job losses are a feature 226. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for of economic development in all countries, as var- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will visit ious sectors expand and contract in response to Kerry in the near future to meet with the local market demand for goods and services, competi- chambers of commerce, Kerry County Council tive forces, restructuring and technological and other interested parties to discuss the failure change. While the transition to a high-skill high- of the IDA to attract new industry to Kerry; and technology regional economy will take time to 1799 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1800

[Mr. Martin.] the near future. I would be more than happy to achieve, I am pleased that three new projects meet the chamber and any other interested par- were announced in Kerry in 2004. ties at that time. Dollinger (Ireland) Limited, which has been established in Killarney for over 20 years, is to be Job Losses. the global centre for the production of its com- 227. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for pressed air products range. The company will Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number have global responsibility for the development of of IDA assisted jobs that have been lost in Kerry \ such products. The investment of 1.1 million, each year since 2000; and if he will make a state- which will create more than 70 new jobs over the ment on the matter. [12435/05] next four years, has resulted in the relocation of the company to larger premises in the town’s 228. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for IDA business park. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number Liebherr Container Cranes Limited, which has of jobs created in Kerry by the IDA each year been in Killarney for 46 years and is one of the since 2000; and if he will make a statement on the longest established IDA supported companies in matter. [12436/05] Ireland, intends to recruit six highly skilled Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- research and development personnel for a new ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions specialised team. The team, which will be of stra- Nos. 227 and 228 together. tegic importance to the parent company and will IDA Ireland has statutory responsibility for the enhance the facility’s role as the centre of control attraction of foreign direct investment to all for Liebherr’s container crane products, will regions and areas of Ireland. While I may give develop products from concept to product launch. general policy directives to IDA Ireland, I am Any intellectual property developed will be the precluded under legislation from giving directives property of the Irish company. about individual undertakings or giving prefer- Fujisawa, one of the world’s top 30 pharma- ence to one area over others. The table that fol- ceutical companies, announced that it had lows this response shows the number of jobs invested \17 million in the expansion of its Irish created and lost in IDA Ireland supported com- operation, Fujisawa Ireland Limited, in Killorg- panies in Kerry between 2000 and 2004. I am con- lin, County Kerry. The company has a total fident that the strategies and policies being pur- employment of 280 people and has constructed a sued by IDA Ireland, along with the 27,000 sq. ft. extension to provide additional pro- Government’s ongoing commitment to regional duction space for the new operation. development, will bear fruit in terms of additional Due to a heavy schedule of departmental and sustainable investment and jobs in County Kerry. parliamentary business, I cannot give a specific The table shows the number of jobs lost and commitment at this time to visit County Kerry or created in IDA supported companies in County to meet the local Chamber of Commerce. I intend Kerry in each of the years between 2000 and to include in my program a visit to the county in 2004.

2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Jobs created 550 379 151 84 100 Jobs lost 88 57 670 321 284

Industrial Development. mately 2.5 hectares and Kildare town — approximately 4.6 hectares, were approved for disposal 229. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for by IDA Ireland to Kildare County Council in Enterprise, Trade and Employment the position April 2003. The transaction was approved on the regarding the IDA lands at Castledermot, Monas- basis that the council would use the land for the terevin and Kildare, County Kildare; if the local requirements of Enterprise Ireland and county authority has purchased these lands; if these lands enterprise board projects, and to encourage other are still available for industrial purposes if a suit- industrial development activities. The disposal of able applicant were to make an application to the the land to the council would allow the land to IDA; and if he will make a statement on the be available for a range of activities outside the matter. [12437/05] remit of IDA Ireland. The transaction has not yet Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- been finalised. As discussions are ongoing ment (Mr. Martin): The management of IDA between the agency and the council, it would not Ireland’s industrial property portfolio is a day-to- be appropriate for me to comment further about day operational matter for the agency. I do not the matter. While the lands remain in IDA have a direct function in that regard. From inquir- ownership, they are available for qualifying ies I have made of the agency, I understand that industrial activities. IDA Ireland’s lands at Castledermot — approxi- Question No. 230 answered with Question mately 1.39 hectares, Monasterevin — approxi- No. 226. 1801 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1802

Labour Inspectorate. found, the inspectorate seeks redress for the individual or individuals concerned and, if appro- 231. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for priate, a prosecution is initiated. Statutory Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number employment rights and protections apply to of inspectors involved in the supervision of work- immigrant workers in exactly the same manner as ing and pay conditions of employees throughout they do to native Irish workers. I have recently the country, both nationals and non-nationals; announced a 50% increase in the numbers of and if he will make a statement on the matter. labour inspectors and have directed that these [12487/05] additional officers focus particularly on the sec- Minister of State at the Department of tors where non-EEA employees are most Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. numerous. Killeen): Following my recent announcement on In addition, where employers seek work per- 12 April there are now 31 labour inspector posts. mits in order to employ non-EEA nationals, the Immediate steps have been taken to source the Department requires the statement of the main new inspectors initially from within the existing functions of the job, salary-wages, deductions, staff complement of the Department of other than statutory, other benefits and hours to Enterprise Trade and Employment. Accordingly, be worked per week. Both the proposed I expect early appointments. employer and the proposed employee must sign Pending these new appointments, there are this statement. Work permits are not granted 17.5 labour inspectors in the inspectorate. One unless there is compliance with minimum wages inspector is currently on long-term sick leave and legislation. Applications for renewals require one job-sharing inspector is on extended unpaid confirmation that the stated wages have been leave. A further two inspectors are currently paid; P60 and other sources are used. If there is engaged in assisting the Employment Appeals evidence that particular employers are exploiting Tribunal to process a backlog of cases. immigrant workers I would ask that it be brought A number of other officials at team leader and to the attention of the labour inspectorate for management grades within the employment investigation and further action. rights compliance section are warranted as inspectors and perform such duties as required. Job Creation. The labour inspectors are supported by six 233. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for administrative staff and the inspectorate makes Enterprise, Trade and Employment the net up just one part of the employment rights com- number of new jobs created here in each of the pliance section, the other elements being the past five years; the number which were high tech employment rights information unit and the or high wage; the number of lower paid jobs; and employment rights prosecution and enforcement if he will make a statement on the matter. section. [12489/05] Neither our employment rights legislation nor Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- the inspectorate make any distinction between ment (Mr. Martin): Employment data is not pro- the employment rights of workers on the basis vided in a format that differentiates between of nationality. types of employment or salary levels. 232. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for In the past few years, conditions in the global Enterprise, Trade and Employment the extent to economy have been difficult, and Irish firms have which he monitors the pay and working con- had to win business against a backdrop of difficult ditions of non-nationals to whom work permits external demand conditions, pricing pressures have been issued here; and if he will make a state- and an increasingly competitive international ment on the matter. environment. These factors have affected employment trends in companies assisted by the Minister of State at the Department of enterprise development agencies. While the net Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. increase in employment in agency-assisted com- Killeen): The labour inspectorate of my Depart- panies in 2000 was 24,000 jobs, subsequent years ment is responsible for monitoring certain have shown a net fall off in the numbers employment conditions for all categories of employed in such companies. However, employ- workers in Ireland, including immigrant workers. ment in these companies is still one third higher Inspectors pursue allegations of worker mistreat- than it was a decade ago. This is a strong perform- ment and when evidence of non-compliance with ance in the context of global economic cir- the relevant employment rights legislation is cumstances.

Net Full-time Job creation in Agency-supported companies

2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

24,086 −3,096 −8,305 −8,059 −1,091 1803 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1804

[Mr. Martin.] Insurance Industry. There are now indications that economic pros- 236. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for pects are improving and our propensity to capital- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the way in ise on trends in global growth is likely to again which insurance costs here compare with those in stimulate business expansion and real employ- the rest of Europe, the US, Australia and other ment growth. The ESRI has indicated that labour countries to which Ireland exports; and if he will market conditions are expected to remain strong make a statement on the matter. [12492/05] both this year and next, with unemployment sta- bilising to average 4.3% in both 2005 and 2006, 237. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for supported by significant growth in GNP. In light Enterprise, Trade and Employment the extent to of the intense global competitive pressures, these which public liability, motor and other insurance forecasts show that our economy maintains con- costs are competitive in the context of all Euro- siderable strengths. pean countries; and if he will make a statement We have become a more sophisticated and on the matter. [12493/05] developed economy where the application of Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- technology and intellectual endeavour is becom- ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions ing more important than simple cost competi- Nos. 236 and 237 together. tiveness as the foundation for growth and prosperity. To counterbalance the competitive threat The National Competitiveness Council in its from lower wage competitor economies, our annual competitiveness report 2004 mentioned policy is to encourage a move to higher levels of the issue of insurance costs in Ireland. The NCC’s productivity and value added products and ser- commentary was based on data published by vices because these types of enterprise create Swiss Re sigma. This information, based on 2003 high-skill employment. Sustainable employment figures, depicts insurance premiums per capita for will be driven by companies with higher profit- non-life insurance for 16 countries and includes ability that are more technologically advanced both motor and public liability insurance. It and prove a better fit with the competitive should be noted that this information covers characteristics of our economy. expenditure on insurance, which is only a proxy The enterprise development agencies are work- for the relative price of similar insurance services ing to source new investment by a combination in different countries. It cannot be seen as a of developing existing clients and new investors definitive competitiveness barometer for in existing or new activities or sectors. Given the insurance costs. critical mass of FDI in Ireland and its linkages Of the 16 countries surveyed, Ireland’s expen- with indigenous companies, one of the greatest diture on non-life insurance was the fifth highest potential contributions will come from with a value of $1, 356. Switzerland was the high- developing companies already operating here. est with a value of $2,228, the United States were The enterprise development agencies are working second highest with a value of $1,980, the Nether- to encourage companies into more sophisticated lands were third with a value of $1,532. The activities where competitive advantage is less United Kingdom with a value of $1,441 was likely to be whittled away by cost based com- fourth highest. Hungary was the second lowest petition. with a value of $148, whilst Poland was the cheap- est with a value of $102. The average expenditure Question No. 234 answered with Question for the EU15 was $974 and the OECD’s average No. 100. was $1,008. However, these figures need to be analysed Work Permits. carefully as they do not always include only or all premiums paid by the inhabitants of the country 235. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for concerned. The NCC also reported that the use Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number of a tort system in Ireland increases private pre- of applications for work permits received in the miums vis-a`-vis Europe and the USA where the past six months; the number approved, received use of a no fault system reduces the level of or pending; and if he will make a statement on expenditure on insurance premiums. the matter. [12491/05] Recent experience in Ireland indicates that the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- cost of insurance is falling as a result of the ment (Mr. Martin): A total of 13,928 valid work Government’s insurance reform programme. The permit applications were received from 1 October CSO publishes monthly indices of costs for a 2004 to 31 March 2005. In that period, 14,967 number of classes of insurance. These statistics applications were granted and 869 were refused. show that there was a reduction of 20% in motor These figures include applications which were car insurance between the months of April 2002, received prior to 1 October 2004. There are cur- when the first Motor Insurance Advisory Board rently 1,252 applications being processed. report was published, and October 2004. There 1805 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1806 are also reported reductions in the cost of premia dependent upon our ability to move further up for public and employer liability insurance. the value chain and become an innovative knowledge intensive economy. Enterprise policy is Economic Competitiveness. being actively refocused towards creating the conditions that will make possible a sustained 238. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for shift to higher skill, knowledge-intensive activities Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has and in which advanced manufacturing expertise monitored the extent to which Irish goods being will be an important contributor to growth and exported are maintaining a competitive edge employment. These are essential if our against all others; and if he will make a statement enterprises are to capture sustainable competitive on the matter. [12494/05] advantage in niche markets that are less suscep- 240. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for tible to cost based competition. The range of Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he has incentives provided through the enterprise satisfied himself that Irish-based manufacturers development agencies are designed to meet these are in a position to compete with all others, both objectives and to help enterprise operate at European and worldwide; and if he will make a higher levels of skill, undertake higher order stra- statement on the matter. [12496/05] tegic investments, product development and innovation. The agencies want to be active and Minister of State at the Department of supportive partners with enterprise in helping Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. M. new market oriented investment projects. Ahern): I propose to take Questions Nos. 238 and The Government recognised the need to 240 together. develop a high value-added knowledge intensive The National Competitiveness Council’s economy when it is established the enterprise annual competitiveness report for 2004 ranks strategy group. The ESG’s report Ahead of the Ireland second only to Singapore in terms of Curve is pivotal in road mapping the future direc- exports of goods and services in 2003 as a per- tion of Ireland’s enterprise policy and ensuring centage of GDP. Given the fact that Ireland is our competitiveness. The purpose of the ESG is obviously one of the world’s most open econom- to ensure that Ireland’s enterprise sector is able ies, firms must be competitive to succeed both in to build on its strengths and to exploit new oppor- the domestic market and in international tunities in technology and services. The Govern- markets. Firms operating here have been ment is committed to implementing the key adversely affected by a rise in the cost of goods recommendations contained in this report to and services, wages and business costs in recent maintain the competitiveness of our enterprise years. However, there are many different factors economy. which contribute to Ireland’s overall competitiveness other than just prices and costs. A com- Question No. 239 answered with Question petitive taxation regime, a highly educated and No. 71. flexible workforce, low levels of business regulation, access to European markets as well as a Question No. 240 answered with Question transition towards higher end value products and No. 238. services all combine to create a positive and competitive business environment for exporting firms Job Creation. operating in Ireland. 241. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Ireland’s trading performance has been Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number remarkable in recent times, as evident by the of jobs arising from overseas investment created NCC’s analysis. Exports constitute an increasing here in each of the past seven years; the extent to share of the economy’s total output of goods and which a trend has been established; and if he will services. They make a substantial contribution to make a statement on the matter. [12497/05] employment creation and maintenance and underpin a positive trade surplus position. Since Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- the strong appreciation of the euro against both ment (Mr. Martin): The following tabular state- the US dollar and sterling, and given the fact that ment below sets out the number of new jobs the USA and the UK are among Ireland’s largest created in IDA supported companies in each of trading partners, Ireland’s competitiveness has the years 1998 to 2004. been significantly affected. Despite this, Ireland’s Total employment in the IDA portfolio is now trade remains strong with the most recent CSO just short of 129,000. There was a slight increase external trade 2004 figures showing that total in employment in 2004 reversing the downward merchandise exports for 2004 were worth trend of the previous three years. Significantly, \83.9billion, an increase of 2% on the 2003 employment in 2004 is over 9% higher than at figures. the end of 1998. We are no longer a low cost economy and as It is important to remember that job creation such our future competitiveness and prosperity is and job losses are a feature of economic develop- 1807 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1808

[Mr. Martin.] goods and services, competitive forces, restructur- ment in all countries as various sectors expand ing and technological change. and contract in response to market demand for

Table showing number of new jobs created in IDA Ireland supported companies in each of the years 1998 to 2004.

Year 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Number of new jobs created 15,909 17,629 22,998 13,052 10,928 9,576 10,825

Job Losses. aged deeper and stronger links to both the enlarg- ing EU markets and internationally. Conse- 242. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for quently, Irish enterprise and society has benefited Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number of jobs that have been relocated to low wage enormously from the ability of entrepreneurs to economies in the past five years; the countries or operate more profitably both in and from Ireland. regions affected most; the action taken or pro- To counterbalance the competitive threat from posed to address the issue; and if he will make a lower wage competitor economies, our policy is statement on the matter. [12498/05] to encourage a move to higher levels of productivity and value added products and services. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Sustainable employment will be driven by comment (Mr. Martin): Ireland’s economy is panies with higher profitability that are more undergoing fundamental change, which is affect- technologically advanced and prove a better fit ing all sectors of our economy. Ireland can no with the competitive characteristics of our econ- longer be seen as a low cost location for invest- omy, and are therefore less likely to move on the ment as our strengths and competitive advantages basis of simple cost influences. This new invest- have inexorably changed. High output and pro- ment will be sourced by a combination of ductivity together with high returns to labour in developing existing clients and new investors in the form of wages, salaries and better living stan- existing or new activities or sectors. The dards now typify Ireland’s economy. Ireland is no enterprise development agencies have a clear longer seen as a location for what could be called mandate to align their operations around this basic low-tech production and is being overtaken policy objective. by low wage economies in terms of cost competi- The latest data from the Central Statistics tiveness. However, no measure is available to Office’s quarterly national household survey in quantify jobs that may have relocated to other respect of Quarter 4 2004 shows that employment countries. Naturally, a more attractive cost envir- increased by 65,200 on the corresponding period onment abroad will inevitably entice some firms in 2003, bringing the total number in employment that are unable to generate their required return to a record 1,894,100. This is a remarkable from the modern enterprise economy into which achievement at a time when there is considerable we have transformed ourselves. A continuing structural evolution of our economy is both debate and comment about the impact of compe- unavoidable and necessary to maintain current tition from lower wage economies on employ- levels of growth and low unemployment. With ment levels in developed economies. this, some plant transfers and other adjustments are bound to come but where relocation has Work Permits. occurred to date, it has largely been limited to 243. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for relatively low-technology, labour-intensive Enterprise, Trade and Employment the position activities. in relation to applications for work permits for We have become a more sophisticated and persons, which were submitted by a company developed economy where the application of (details supplied) in County Westmeath; if same technology and intellectual endeavour is becom- will be dealt with as a matter of urgency; and if he ing more important than simple cost competi- will make a statement on the matter. [12510/05] tiveness as the foundation for growth and prosperity. We now have one of the most open Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- economies in the world where trends in world ment (Mr. Martin): The work permit section of trade, global business investment and consumer my Department has indicated that the permits in decisions directly influence the pattern of econ- question have been refused. The employer was omic growth, company development and job informed in writing of the decision and of his prospects here more so than probably in other right to appeal the decision. developed economies. An appeal has been received and is currently A balanced combination of pro-enterprise poli- under consideration. It is anticipated that a cies has helped propel economic growth and decision from the work permits section will be employment expansion and these have encour- posted to the employer within seven days. 1809 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1810

Industrial Development. part-time employed; the terms of the contract; the level of remuneration, either by hour if part-time 244. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for or as an annual salary; and if he will make a state- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the position ment on the matter. [12362/05] regarding an enterprise (details supplied); if his Department or the IDA has ceased payments of Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. rent in regard to the matter; the total funding Brennan): Since I took up office, I have allocated by either in regard to the payment; and appointed on a contract basis for my term of if he will make a statement on the matter. office four non-established civil servants, a special [12511/05] adviser, Mr. Frank Lahiffe, a press adviser, Mr. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Tom Rowley, a personal secretary, Ms Mary ment (Mr. Martin): IDA Ireland is the agency Browne, and a personal assistant, Mr. Bobby with statutory responsibility for the attraction of Holland. All four appointees are employed full- foreign direct investment, FDI, to Ireland, includ- time. ing its regions and areas. The salaries for these staff are as follows: special Adviser, \83,707 — principal officer stan- I understand the Deputy’s question relates to \ an advance factory. I have been informed by IDA dard scale; press adviser, 89,801 — principal officer higher scale; and personal secretary, Ireland that it does not have an advance factory \ at the location indicated by the Deputy. 37,621. My personal assistant is on secondment However, IDA did construct a building at Wood- from the Department of Education and Science. stock Industrial Estate, Athy, County Kildare in That Department will recoup from my Depart- 2000 which was occupied by an Enterprise ment on an annual basis the cost of a replacement Ireland client company in 2004. teachers’ salary, allowances, PRSI contributions and superannuation contributions. This will be in \ Social Welfare Appeals. the region of 31,800. The duties carried out by the advisers — 245. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Social special adviser and press adviser — attached to and Family Affairs if he is carrying out a re- my Department are as set out in section 11 of the assessment of the application for the non-con- Public Service Management Act 1997, that is, to tributory pension for a person (details supplied) assist the Minister by providing advice on a wide in County Wexford; and if he will make a state- range of issues, by monitoring, facilitating and ment on the matter. [11955/05] securing the achievement of Government objec- Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. tives that relate to my Department and by per- Brennan): The person’s claim for old age non- forming such other functions as may be directed contributory pension was disallowed on the by me. grounds that her means, derived from the letting The roles of my personal secretary and per- of her land, exceeds the statutory limit. sonal assistant are to provide administrative sup- The person appealed this decision to the Social port and back-up in my capacity as a TD and in Welfare Appeals Office and following an oral my constituency office. hearing of the appeal on 16 November 2004, the The terms of contract for the above positions appeals officer disallowed the appeal. The appell- are as determined by the Department of Finance ant subsequently reported a change in the letting and are subject to the Civil Service Regulation arrangement and the appeals officer has decided Acts 1956 to 1996 and any other Act for the time to refer the matter to a social welfare inspector being in force relating to the Civil Service. for further investigation. The appeals officer will A Minister of State has not been appointed to review his decision as soon as this report comes my Department. to hand. 247. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Social Under social welfare legislation decisions in and Family Affairs if, in respect of each person relation to claims must be made by deciding in the employment of the ministerial office, officers and appeals officers. These officers are including that of Ministers of State attached to his statutorily appointed and I have no role in regard Department, as either personal assistant, political to making such decisions. adviser, programme manager and press communications adviser, the cost of travel and Ministerial Staff. maintenance expenses incurred individually by 246. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Social each persons by name for the calendar year 2004; and Family Affairs if, in respect of the category and if he will make a statement on the matter. of ministerial staff, including those attached to [12377/05] Ministers of State in his Department who are not civil servants but are contracted by him as per- Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. sonal assistant, political adviser, programme man- Brennan): Since I took up office, I have ager and press communications advisers, the appointed on a contract basis for my term of name of the person; their function; if full-time or office a special adviser, Mr. Frank Lahiffe, a press 1811 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1812

[Mr. Brennan.] therapy sessions to medical card holders is the adviser, Mr. Tom Rowley, a personal secretary responsibility of the Health Service Executive. and a personal assistant. During 2004, the travel The issue of the availability of such services in a and subsistence costs of my special adviser and particular area is a matter for the executive, and my press adviser were \1,378.77 and \150.00 neither I nor my Department has any function in respectively. There were no travel and subsist- that regard. ence costs in respect of my personal secretary or Payments towards the cost of these services my personal assistant. would not come within the scope of the sup- From 1 January 2004 until 29 September 2004 plementary welfare allowance scheme generally. there were travel and subsistence costs paid to However, in exceptional or special circumstances, three ministerial staff appointed by my prede- a once-off payment may be made under the cessor, Deputy Mary Coughlan. Ms Helen Faugh- scheme to assist with the cost of meeting a part- \ nan, special adviser, was paid 2,309.98. Mr. Tom icular essential need. It is a matter for local com- Reddy, press adviser, and Ms Kathleen Ayres, munity welfare officers to assess each case. \ \ personal assistant, were paid 3,212.86 and 4.38 Each decision to make an exceptional needs respectively. payment is based on the circumstances of the A Minister of State was not appointed to the case, taking account of the nature and extent of Department for the period in question. the need, the availability of an alternative source or agency to supply the service and the resources Social Welfare Benefits. of the applicant household. 248. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the procedure involved Rail Network. in applying to his Department for a respite grant 250. Ms M. Wallace asked the Minister for in a case in which an applicant is not on the HSE Transport the funding options for the proposed database and not in receipt of the carer’s allow- Dunboyne Rail; and if he will make a statement ance or benefit; when application forms will be on the matter. [12267/05] available; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12447/05] 252. Ms M. Wallace asked the Minister for Transport if he has received a request from Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. Iarnro´ dE´ ireann for a meeting regarding Dun- Brennan): In budget 2005, I announced the exten- boyne Rail; if he will report on progress on the sion of the respite care grant scheme to all carers issue since the January 2005 feasibility study; and providing full-time care to an older person or a person with a disability, regardless of means and if he will make a statement on the matter. subject to certain qualifying conditions. [12269/05] The respite care grant will continue to be pay- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose able to recipients of carer’s allowance, carer’s to take Questions Nos. 250 and 252 together. benefit, prescribed relative allowance, constant Iarnro´ dE´ ireann, in conjunction with Meath attendance allowance and domiciliary care allow- and Fingal County Councils, recently completed ance. Carers who do not qualify for a grant under a feasibility study into the possibility of providing one of these schemes may now obtain a grant if a spur off the Maynooth line at Clonsilla to Pace they and the person for whom they are caring on the N3 beyond Dunboyne. satisfy certain conditions. Iarnro´ dE´ ireann is currently considering the \ The grant, which is being increased to 1,000, results of the study and how it wishes to proceed. will be payable from 2 June 2005 in respect of I await to hear from the company. each qualifying person for whom full-time care is being provided. Rural Transport Services. 249. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Social and 251. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Trans- Family Affairs if, under the ambit of the com- port further to Question No. 586 of 12 April 2005, munity welfare system, funding is available for if RII allocation for 2005 will remain at the \3.45 the provision of speech and language therapy ses- million he announced in January 2005; and if he sions to medical card holders in view of the fact will make a statement on the matter. [12268/05] that such funding is not available from the Department of Health and Children and that Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I refer the such sessions are not provided by the south west Deputy to my reply yesterday to Question No. region of the Health Service Executive to medical 358 which states: I announced on Friday, 15 April card holders in that area; and if he will make a 2005 an increase in the funding allocation for the statement on the matter. [12448/05] pilot rural transport initiative, RTI, in 2005 from \3.45 million to \4.5 million. The increased fund- Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. ing will provide scope for the 34 community Brennan): The provision of speech and language transport groups being funded under the scheme 1813 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1814 to undertake a modest expansion of services, as Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): As the envisaged in the 2004 evaluation of the RTI. Deputy will be aware, I am finalising proposals Area Development Management Limited, for the provision of additional terminal capacity ADM, administers the RTI on behalf of my at Dublin Airport and will submit proposals to Department and has sole responsibility for mak- Government very shortly. I will be guided by the ing specific allocations to individual project most up-to-date information on the airport’s groups from funding provided by my Depart- needs and the relevant consultations and analysis undertaken by my Department. New capacity is ment. I understand that ADM is communicating clearly required to cater for the expected growth decisions to the individual RTI project groups in passenger numbers at the airport and this capa- regarding specific funding allocations for 2005 city must be provided on an efficient and cost- following the finalisation of agreed business effective basis. Future arrangements will be plans. In making such allocations, I have called designed to ensure that both the location and on ADM to work closely with the groups to maxi- operation of terminal capacity are in keeping with mise the impact of the increased funding and to the optimum development of an efficient Dublin ensure continued value for money. Airport. Ministerial Staff. Question No. 252 answered with Question 255. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Trans- No. 250. port in respect of the category of ministerial staff, including those attached to Ministers of State in Departmental Agencies. his Department, who not being civil servants are 253. Ms M. Wallace asked the Minister for contracted by him as personal assistant, political adviser, programme manager and press Transport if the DTO has not met for the past communications advisers, the name of the person; two years; if so, the reason therefore; and if he their function; if full-time or part-time employed; will make a statement on the matter. [12270/05] the terms of the contract; the level of remuner- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The steer- ation, either by hour if part-time or as an annual ing committee of the Dublin Transportation salary; and if he will make a statement on the Office meets on a monthly basis. matter. [12363/05] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Details of State Airports. unestablished civil servants employed by the Minister and the Minister of State in the Depart- 254. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Trans- ment of Transport as requested by the Deputy port if he will list all the studies or reports which are set out below. The details are included in the will inform his decision on the optional location contracts for the individuals and copies of those for a second terminal at Dublin Airport; and if documents have been laid before the House. each of these documents will be made available There are no political advisers employed in the in the library of Da´il E´ ireann. [12301/05] Department of Transport.

Ministerial staff as requested.

Number Name Position Conditions Salary Scale

\ 1 Sean Dower Personal Assistant Full-time contract 39,035-49,529 1 Colin Hunt Special Adviser (Programme Manager) Full-time contract 134,948 p.a. 1 Dan Pender Press Adviser Full-time contract 71,990-89,047

Minister of State staff as requested.

Number Name Position Conditions Salary Scale

\ 1 Niall Phelan Personal Assistant Full-time contract 39,035-49,529

ramme manager, and press communications 256. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Trans- adviser, the cost of travel and maintenance port if, in respect of each person in the employ- expenses incurred individually by each persons by ment of the ministerial office, including that of name for the calendar year 2004; and if he will Ministers of State attached to his Department as make a statement on the matter. [12378/05] either personal assistant, political adviser, prog- 1815 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1816

Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Details of no political advisers employed in the Department travel and maintenance expenses for unestab- of Transport. The staff of the offices outlined lished civil servants in the employment of the changed with the change of Minister on 29 Sep- Minister and the Minister of State in the Depart- tember 2004. ment of Transport are set out below. There are

Personal staff employed in the office of the Minister.

Position Name Expenses paid in 2004

\ Personal Assistant Mr. Sean Dower 0 Special Adviser (Programme Manager) Mr. Colin Hunt 2,995 Press Officer Mr. Dan Pender 1,404

Personal staff employed in the office of the Minister of State.

Position Name Expenses paid in 2004

\ Personal Assistant Mr. Niall Phelan 0

Rail Network. Department has also consulted with other Departments, primarily through the inter- 257. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Trans- departmental team of officials which supports the port if, in respect of any proposals to extend a Cabinet committee on infrastructure, housing and metro or the Luas to Dublin Airport, the plans public private partnerships. will incorporate an extension to Swords, County A draft of the ten-year transport plan is under Dublin. [12458/05] consideration by the Cabinet committee. I will Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The prog- bring proposals to Government in due course ramme for Government contains a specific com- once the Cabinet committee has concluded its mitment to develop a metro for Dublin with a work. link to Dublin Airport. The Railway Procurement Agency has submitted to my Department a State Airports. detailed business case for a metro from the city 258. Mr. Healy-Rae asked the Minister for centre to Dublin Airport while Iarnro´ d Eireann Transport his plans for hotels (details supplied) submitted proposals last July for an integrated in County Kerry; and if he will make a statement rail network in the greater Dublin area. While the on the matter. [12459/05] RPA has suggested a number of routes for the proposed metro, a final decision will be subject to Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): As the a Government decision on the project and sub- Deputy is aware, in accordance with the pro- sequently to the findings of a public inquiry as visions of the State Airports Act 2004, the three part of the statutory approval process. A further airport authorities at Dublin, Shannon and Cork link from the airport to Swords is also being are required to prepare comprehensive business examined by the RPA. plans. This work is ongoing. The position of the In the light of the announcement by the Mini- principal subsidiaries of the Dublin Airport ster for Finance in his Budget Statement of agree- Authority, including the Great Southern Hotels ment in principle to a ten-year capital investment Group, must be considered by the authority in envelope for transport, work has commenced in the first instance. The board’s proposals for the my Department on a ten-year transport invest- future of the hotel group will be considered by ment plan. The draft framework takes account of me and the Minister for Finance in due course the work already done on investment priorities and in the context of the overall business plan- under the current capital envelope to end 2009 ning process. and of the various strategic studies already completed by my Department and its agencies. The Taxi Hardship Panel. studies include A Platform for Change, the Stra- 259. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for tegic Rail Review and the National Road Needs Transport if a person (details supplied) in Dublin Study. More specifically, my Department has 7 will be re-examined for compensation in ´ engaged with Co´ ras Iompair Eireann, the Rail- relation to a taxi plate. [12460/05] way Procurement Agency, the National Roads Authority and the Dublin Transportation Office Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Area to identify the broad direction and priorities Development Management Limited is adminis- under the ten-year investment framework. My tering and managing the taxi hardship payments 1817 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1818 scheme which is implementing the recommend- standard scale at \75,042 per annum. Ms. ations of the taxi hardship panel report. Payments Eadaoin Nı´ Mhonghaile is employed as media under the scheme do not represent compensation adviser and is paid on the third point of the prin- but rather compassionate payments in respect of cipal officer standard scale at \78,075 per annum. extreme personal financial hardship. The pro- Ms. MaírıńNı´ Choisdealbha is employed as per- cessing and consideration of applications under sonal assistant in my constituency office and is the scheme is being undertaken by ADM inde- paid on the seventh point of the higher executive pendently of my Department. officer standard scale at \46,199 per annum. Ms. While my Department has no details of individ- Maíre Nı´ Fhlatharta is employed as my personal ual applications made to ADM under the scheme, secretary and is paid on the first long service I understand from enquiries that no application increment point of the Houses of the Oireachtas \ from the person in question was received by secretarial assistant scale at 40,701 per annum. ADM under the scheme which is now closed for The contracts for the above-named officers are applications. I have no role in the review of appli- for the duration of my term of office as Minister cations or the consideration of appeals under at the Department and require the performance the scheme. of duties appropriate to their position assigned by me. The contracts have been laid before the Ministerial Staff. Houses of the Oireachtas. The Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and 260. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Com- Gaeltacht Affairs employs no such staff in my munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if, in respect Department. of the category of ministerial staff, including 261. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Com- those attached to Ministers of State in his Depart- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if, in respect ment, who not being civil servants are contracted of each person in the employment of the minis- by him as personal assistant, political adviser, terial office, including that of Ministers of State programme manager and press communications attached to his Department as either personal advisers, the name of the person; their function; assistant, political adviser, programme manager, if full-time or part-time employed; the terms of and press communications adviser, the cost of the contract; the level of remuneration, either by travel and maintenance expenses incurred indi- hour if part-time or as an annual salary; and if he vidually by each person by name for the calendar will make a statement on the matter. [12364/05] year 2004; and if he will make a statement on the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht matter. [12379/05] Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The rates of remuner- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht ation for the following non-civil servants who are Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Details of travel and employed by me in a full-time temporary unes- maintenance expenses in 2004 of personnel tablished capacity are as follows. Mr. Pa´draic O´ employed in my Department in the positions hUiginn is employed as my special adviser and is referred to by the Deputy are set out in the fol- paid on the second point of the principal officer lowing table:

Name Position Travel Subsistence Total

\\\ E´ adaoin Nı´ Mhonghaile Media Adviser 10,191 12,258 22,449 Pa´draic O´ hUiginn Special Adviser 2,153 796 2,949 Ma´ire Nı´ Fhlatharta Personal Secretary to Minister 3,366 517 3,883 Ma´ire Nı´ Choisdealbha Personal Assistant to Minister Nil Nil Nil

No staff are employed in my Department as per- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary sonal secretaries or assistants to the Minister of Coughlan): In view of the level of TB and bru- State, Deputy Noel Ahern. cellosis in Ireland, all herds are required by EU Directive 64/432/EEC to have one annual test for Animal Diseases. TB and brucellosis in order to maintain official 262. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Agri- free status and dependent trading opportunities. culture and Food if her attention has been drawn In order to facilitate the completion of the annual to the fact that a person (details supplied) in programme of tests and follow-up of disease County Sligo must have two herd tests; if this per- detected, all such testing is conducted on an area, son’s herd test will be scheduled for the last week district electoral division, DED, basis and is in August in order that the results and docu- organised into phases such that there is, as far a mentation from this herd can be used for the Sep- practicable, an even distribution of workload tember special animal sales; and if she will make throughout the year, taking into consideration a statement on the matter. [12304/05] daylight, prevailing weather conditions and avail- 1819 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1820

[Mary Coughlan.] to the fact that, due to medical difficulties a per- ability of private veterinary practitioners. The son (details supplied) in County Sligo was annual, round, herd test for the herdowner in unaware of the retention dates for their animals; question is due for completion in the course of if a decision will be expedited; and if she will the first phase, that is, before 12 June 2005. In make a statement on the matter. [12315/05] this regard, I should point out that the annual herd test on his herd was carried out on 8 July in Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary 2004 and on 10 May in 2003. Coughlan): This decision has been appealed to Eligible animals being moved out of a herd the agriculture appeals office. Appeals require must have passed a TB test within the previous individual examination and are dealt with in the 12 months and a brucellosis test within the pre- order in which they are received. This appeal was vious 30 days. All farmers would like to have received on 8 April 2005 and has been assigned their herd tests scheduled at peak sales periods to to an appeals officer for examination. avoid having to privately test animals they wish The appeals office will contact the appellant to sell, such as for special sales in the autumn. However it would be impossible to manage the shortly to arrange the oral hearing that he testing programme if all herd tests were to be requested. It is not expected that there will be scheduled for this time period. It is therefore my any undue delay in dealing with this case. policy not to reschedule the routine round tests 266. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Agri- out of their planned current phase unless there is culture and Food if the single payment scheme a compelling disease reason to do so. will be reviewed for a person (details supplied) in County Leitrim; if a decision will be expedited; Installation Aid Scheme. and if she will make a statement on the 263. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Agri- matter. [12318/05] culture and Food when installation aid approval will be given for a person (details supplied) in Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary County Sligo; and if she will make a statement on Coughlan): A certificate of provisional entitle- the matter. [12312/05] ments under the single payment scheme issued Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary to the person named on 30 September 2004. The Coughlan): The above-named person is an appli- statement included a detailed breakdown of how cant under the installation aid scheme. The appli- the provisional entitlements were calculated. cation is currently being examined by my Depart- Farmers who were not satisfied with their pro- ment’s inspectorate. Additional information has visional entitlement statement could seek a been sought from the applicant in regard to a review on a form which is available from all local number of outstanding issues. The processing of offices of my Department and from my Depart- the application awaits the submission of this ment’s website. further documentation. A completed review form was received from the person named on 8 April 2005. Officials in Grant Payments. my Department are currently examining this case 264. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Agri- and will contact the person named in this regard culture and Food if her attention has been drawn shortly. to the overwhelming circumstances encountered by a person (details supplied) in County Sligo; if Ministerial Staff. a decision will be expedited; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [12314/05] 267. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Agri- culture and Food if, in respect of the category of Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary ministerial staff, including those attached to Mini- Coughlan): The person named has been notified sters of State in her Department who not being that the circumstances outlined by him did not civil servants but are contracted by her as per- satisfy the criteria for force majeure or excep- sonal assistant, political adviser, programme man- tional circumstances under Article 40 of Council ager and press communications advisers, the Regulation (EC) No. 1782/2003. name of the person; their function; if full-time or Following this decision the person named sub- part-time employed; the terms of the contract; the mitted an appeal to the independent single payment appeals committee. A full review of the cir- level of remuneration, either by hour if part-time cumstances of the case will be carried out by the or as an annual salary; and if she will make a independent single payment appeals committee statement on the matter. [12365/05] and the person named will be notified shortly of Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary the outcome. Coughlan): The following tables give a break- 265. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Agri- down of non-civil servant staff employed in my culture and Food if her attention has been drawn office and in the offices of the Ministers of State. 1821 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1822

Minister’s Office Staff

Grade Office Salary Scale

\ Kathleen Ayres Personal Assistant Constituency office, Donegal 41,389-51,192 Bridget Byrne Personal Secretary Constituency office, Donegal 19,499-37,621 Marina Gaffney Temporary Clerical Officer Constituency office, Donegal 19,493-31,612

Minister of State, Deputy B. Smith Office.

Grade Office Salary Scale

\ Nuala Brady Personal Assistant Constituency office, Cavan 373.68-720.98 Celine Mullen Personal Secretary Dublin office. 19,493-37,621

Minister of State, Deputy Browne Office

Grade Number Salary Scale

\ Stephanie Byrne Personal Secretary Constituency office, Enniscorthy 373.68-720.98 Rhoda Millar Temporary Clerical Officer Constituency office, Enniscorthy 19,493-31,612

All the above staff are employed on a contract Minister of State, Deputy B. Smith. basis and are employed full-time. The contracts will terminate not later than the date I as Minister Name Travel and Subsistence or Ministers of State cease to hold office. Expenses

268. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Agri- \ culture and Food if, in respect of each person in Nuala Brady (Personal Assistant) 572.95 the employment of the ministerial office, including that of Ministers of State attached to her Total 572.95 Department as either personal assistant, political adviser, programme manager, and press communications adviser, the cost of travel and The Minister, Deputy Walsh’s Office. maintenance expenses incurred individually by each persons by name for the calendar year 2004; Name Travel and Subsistence and if she will make a statement on the Expenses matter. [12380/05] \ Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Danny Carroll (Special Adviser) 9,624.48 Coughlan): The following tables show the travel and subsistence expenses paid to officers in my Total 9,624.48 office and those in the Ministers of State’s offices attached to my Department in the period since taking office. Grant Payments. 269. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for The Minister, Deputy Coughlan’s, office. Agriculture and Food the total amount of entitlements which will issue to a person (details Name Travel and supplied) in County Galway; and if she will make Subsistence a statement on the matter. [12405/05] Expenses Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary \ Coughlan): The person named submitted an Dermot Murphy (Special Adviser) 1,967.55 application for consideration in respect of the Thomas Reddy (Press Adviser) 2,178.62 inheritance measure of the single payment scheme. Following processing of his application, Total 4,146.17 I am pleased to advise that the person named has been notified directly that his application has been successful. 1823 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1824

[Mary Coughlan.] Rural Environment Protection Scheme. Subsequently a statement of provisional 272. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Agri- entitlements issued to the person named on 7 culture and Food the effect which the gas pipeline April 2005. will have on persons (details supplied) with 270. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for regard to REPS scheme payments. [12514/05] Agriculture and Food if consideration will be Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary given to an appeal by a person (details supplied) Coughlan): Arrangements arrived at between in County Meath under force majeure for the sin- landowners and the developers of the gas pipeline gle payment scheme; if her attention has been drawn to the fact that this person had a very are not a matter for my Department in the first serious farm accident some years ago which instance. My Department does, however, make necessitated a change from milk production; if, as special provision for cases in which, as a result of a consequence, the year 2002 will be taken as a the development of the pipeline, participants in reference year on its own; and if she will make a REPS are compelled to reduce the area they have statement on the matter. [12406/05] included in the scheme. They are exempted from the general rule under which, if land included in Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary a REPS plan is disposed of, payments already Coughlan): An application for consideration made on that area are recouped. Payments for under the force majeure or exceptional circum- the remainder of the REPS contract are, stances of the single payment regulations was however, recalculated to reflect the reduced area. submitted by the person named on 29 January 2004. Grant Payments. Following consideration by my Department of 273. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Agri- the circumstances outlined, including additional culture and Food if all payments under the single information submitted, my Department is satis- farm payment will be made in October when they fied that force majeure can be applied in respect are due; and if not, if an interim payment will of the person named. Consequently, the years be made in October in order that no hardship be 2000 and 2001 will be excluded and only the year created. [12519/05] 2002 will be used in the calculation of the single Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary payment entitlement. The person named was Coughlan): The operation of the single payment notified of this decision on 10 March 2005. scheme is governed by the provisions of Council An amended statement of provisional entitle- Regulation (EC) No 1782/2003. In general, ments reflecting this position will issue shortly to Article 28 of that regulation provides for the pay- the person named. ment of the single payment once a year within 271. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Agri- the period from 1 December to 30 June of the culture and Food the reason a person (details following calendar year. supplied) in County Kerry was not considered My Department is currently in the final stages suitable as a force majeure case, in view of their of implementing the single payment scheme and exceptional circumstances; and if she will make a the deadline for the receipt of applications is 16 statement on the matter. [12413/05] May 2005. My primary objective is that payment should issue to farmers from the beginning of Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary December 2005. While there is provision in Coughlan): An application for consideration Article 28 of the Council Regulation for the under the force majeure exceptional circum- European Commission to implement a regulation stances measure of the single payment regu- to provide for advances, there is no proposal from lations was submitted by the person named on 26 the Commission to do so at present. January 2004. The person named has been notified that the circumstances outlined by him do Prisoner Transfers. not satisfy the criteria for force majeure excep- 274. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for tional circumstances under Article 40 of Council Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will Regulation (EC) No. 1782/2003. The exceptional report on the transfer pursuant to Article 2.2 of circumstances put forward did not result in a fall the Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced in production and in fact, the exclusion of the Persons sought by a person (details supplied); the year in question, would have had a negative correspondence he has had with the office of the impact on the single payment entitlements for the Governor of Massachusetts in connection with person named. processing this request; and if he will make a The person named has been advised that he statement on the matter. [12475/05] can appeal this decision to the independent single payment appeals committee which will carry out Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform a full review of the circumstances outlined. (Mr. McDowell): I wish to advise the House that 1825 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1826

Article 2.2 of the Council of Europe Convention and if he will make a statement on the matter. states that: [11952/05] a person sentenced in the territory of a Party 277. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, may be transferred to the territory of another Equality and Law Reform the way in which a per- Party, in accordance with the provisions of this son previously deported from Ireland to Romania Convention, in order to serve the sentence can now legally re-enter the country to live with imposed on him. To that end, he may express their spouse wife and child; and if he will make a his interest to the sentencing State or to the statement on the matter. [11954/05] administering State in being transferred under this Convention. 278. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the options available An expression of interest for transfer to a prison to a person (details supplied) in order that they in this country from the person referred to by the can come here to live with their spouse and child; Deputy was received in my Department on 23 and if he will make a statement on the matter. August, 2004. In line with the convention, my [11957/05] Department wrote to the US Department of Justice on 24 August 2004, requesting that it 279. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, should commence processing this individual’s Equality and Law Reform the way in which a per- application. The US Department of Justice is the son previously deported from Ireland to Romania central contact point in respect of all inter- can now legally re-enter the country to live with national prison transfer applications between their spouse and child; and if he will make a state- Ireland and the United States. My Department ment on the matter. [11988/05] has had no correspondence with the Office of the 280. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, Governor of Massachusetts as regards this matter Equality and Law Reform the status of the appli- and has not, as yet, received the formal application for the revocation of the deportation order cation and supporting documentation from the regarding a person (details supplied); and if he United States authorities. will make a statement on the matter. [11990/05] The Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons requires extensive documentation to be Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform exchanged between both jurisdictions in order to (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions allow an application to be fully considered. A Nos. 276 to 280, inclusive, together. three way consent is also required to enable any If a person who is the subject of a valid deport- transfer to take place, that is, from the authorities ation order wishes to return to the State. he or of both jurisdictions and from the person con- she may apply to have the deportation order cerned. On receipt of those consents — assuming revoked under section 3(11) of the Immigration they will be forthcoming — an application must Act 1999. A person from Romania must also hold then be made to the High Court for a warrant a valid visa to travel to the State. There is no authorising the transfer of the person concerned automatic right of residency for a non-national and his continued detention here. married to an Irish national and a person who These procedures are required under the Con- marries an Irish national may apply for per- vention and the Transfer of Sentenced Persons mission to enter and reside in the State with their Act, 1995, and must be adhered to in processing Irish national spouse. It is the normal procedure each application. where such an application is received from a person who is the subject of a deportation order and Garda Stations. marries an Irish national outside the State, that 275. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, both the revocation and the residency issues are Equality and Law Reform if a Garda station considered at the same time. (details supplied) in County Wexford is for sale; The person in question is the subject of a valid if not, if there are plans for its sale; and if he will deportation order signed on 26 October 2000 fol- make a statement on the matter. [11771/05] lowing a failed asylum application in the State. He was deported on foot of this order in Sep- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform tember 2003 and is obliged to remain outside the (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Garda State. He married an Irish national in his home authorities that the Garda station referred to by country in December 2003 and made an appli- the Deputy is not for sale. There are no plans at cation for the revocation of the deportation order present to sell it. on 6 February 2004. Following consideration of the circumstances of the case this application was Deportation Orders. refused on 27 April 2004 and a notification issued 276. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, to this effect. Equality and Law Reform the status of the appli- The person concerned can make a fresh application for the revocation of the deportation order cation for the revocation of the deportation order for persons (details supplied) in County Wexford; and permission to enter and remain in the State 1827 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1828

[Mr. McDowell.] Questions Nos. 397 and 403 of Tuesday, 19 April based on marriage to an Irish national if there 2005. My position on these cases remains the has been any change to his circumstances since 27 same. April 2004. Registration of Title. Citizenship Applications. 284. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Justice, 281. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if the Land Registry Justice, Equality and Law Reform the reason a Office will expedite a dealing application (details person (details supplied) in Dublin 7 has been supplied); and if he will make a statement on the waiting quite a while for a passport application to matter. [12319/05] be processed; when a passport will issue to this person; and the reason for the delay in issuing Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform same. [12287/05] (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar of Titles that this is an application for transfer Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform order and transfer of part — sale — which was (Mr. McDowell): I assume the Deputy is referring lodged on 18 October 2004. Dealing Number to an application for a certificate of naturalisation D2004SM009052Y refers. I am further informed which the person in question lodged with my that a query was issued to the lodging solicitor Department on 11 December 2002. There are on 14 April 2005 and that the application cannot court proceedings outstanding in respect of the proceed until it has been satisfactorily resolved. applicant in question and officials in the citizen- However, on receipt of a satisfactory reply the ship section of my Department are awaiting the application will receive further attention in the outcome of those proceedings in order that their Land Registry. submission to me fully comprehends the circumstances of the case. I will inform both the Deputy Prisoner Transfers. and applicant when I have made a decision in 285. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Justice, the matter. Equality and Law Reform if a person (details supplied) in County Kildare will be considered Garda Investigations. for a transfer to Shelton Abbey; and if he will 282. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for make a statement on the matter. [12341/05] Justice, Equality and Law Reform the terms of reference of the legal counsel who will examine Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the documentation related to the Grangegorman (Mr. McDowell): The prisoner’s request for a murder case; the nature and extent of the docu- transfer to Shelton Abbey was discussed recently mentation that will be examined; the timescale at a local review meeting in Wheatfield Prison for the examination; and if he will make a state- and a transfer to an open centre was not recom- ment on the matter. [12288/05] mended at this stage of his sentence. From my response to Question No. 498 of 22 March 2005, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the person to whom the Deputy referred was (Mr. McDowell): In view of the understandable approved a transfer, on a swap basis, to the Mid- grounds for concern that the late Mr. Dean Lyons lands Prison in early March 2005. The purpose of made an apparently inculpatory statement in the this transfer is to facilitate family visits. I under- case of the murders of Mary Callinan and Sylvia stand from the Irish Prison Service that he will be Shiels on 6/7 March 1997, I have decided in prin- transferred when the next opportunity arises to ciple to refer the Garda papers in the case to out- swap prisoners between both institutions. side counsel with a view to examining how Mr. Lyons came to make the confession and what Ministerial Staff. lessons can be learned from that occurrence in 286. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Justice, an effort to ensure a similar occurrence does not Equality and Law Reform if, in respect of the cat- happen again. I will shortly announce the terms egory of ministerial staff, including those attached of reference for the examination and the name of to Ministers of State in his Department who not the counsel who will carry it out. being civil servants but are contracted by him as personal assistant, political adviser, programme Deportation Orders. manager and press communications advisers, the 283. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for name of the person; their function; if full-time or Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will allow part-time employed; the terms of the contract; the persons (details supplied) to return to Ireland; level of remuneration, either by hour if part-time and if he will make a statement on the matter. or as an annual salary; and if he will make a state- [12302/05] ment on the matter. [12366/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I refer the Deputy to replies to (Mr. McDowell): The information requested by 1829 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1830 the Deputy is set out in the following table. The Minister of State at the Department of Health Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children and Children, Deputy Brian Lenihan. will provide details separately in respect of the

Minister’s Office non Civil Servant Staff.

Name Title Function Full-time/ Part Terms of Contract Remuneration Time

\ Hugh Hardiman Personal Assistant General secretarial and Full-time Appointment is 39,035-49,529 administrative duties temporary and will terminate when the Minister leaves office Mary McCowan Personal Secretary General secretarial duties Full-time Appointment is 19,499-37,621 temporary and will terminate when the Minister leaves office Cormac Lucey Special Adviser Provision of policy advice Full-time Appointment is 71,990 -89,047 temporary and will terminate when the Minister leaves office

Minister of State’s Office non Civil Servant Staff.

Name Title Function Full-time/ Part Terms of Contract Remuneration Time

\ Sheila Burnes Personal Assistant to General secretarial and Full-time Appointment is 39,035-49,529 Minister of State administrative duties temporary and will terminate when the Minister leaves office

289. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for 287. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Justice, Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of Equality and Law Reform if, in respect of each Supreme Court judges; and the number of these person in the employment of the ministerial who are solicitors. [12443/05] office, including that of Ministers of State attached to his Department as either personal 290. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for assistant, political adviser, programme manager, Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of and press communications adviser, the cost of Circuit Court judges; and the number of these travel and maintenance expenses incurred indi- who are solicitors. [12444/05] vidually by each person by name for the calendar 292. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for year 2004; and if he will make a statement on the Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of matter. [12381/05] judges appointed in each of the Supreme, High and Circuit Courts. [12451/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The information requested by Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the Deputy in respect of travel and subsistence (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions expenses for the calendar year 2004, incurred by Nos. 288 to 290, inclusive, and 292 together. staff employed in my office and that of the Mini- The Supreme Court consists of the Chief ster of State is programme delivery manager — Justice and seven ordinary judges, together with \1,096.78; special adviser to Minister — the President of the High Court as an ex officio \2,134.71; press officer — \693.99; personal member. The statutory maximum number may be assistant to former Minister of State — \2,520.18; exceeded by one when a Supreme Court judge, and personal secretary to former Minister of as is the case, is serving as President of the Law State — \580.30. Reform Commission. One vacancy exists in the court. None of the serving judges of the Supreme Judicial Appointments. Court were solicitors at the time of their appointment. 288. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for The High Court consists of the President and Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of 31 ordinary judges, together with the Chief High Court judges; and the number of these who Justice and the President of the Circuit Court as are solicitors. [12442/05] ex officio members. Thirty-two judges have been 1831 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1832

[Mr. McDowell.] Garda Deployment. appointed to the High Court, of whom one was a 294. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for solicitor at the time of his appointment. Justice, Equality and Law Reform his plans for The Circuit Court consists of a President and ensuring that any additional gardaı´ will be 33 ordinary judges. The President of the District deployed in areas in which they are most needed Court is an ex officio member. Thirty-four judges and on the duties for which they are most needed; have been appointed to the Circuit Court, of and his views on the areas in which extra gardaı´ whom eight were solicitors at the time of their are most needed and on the duties for which they appointment. are most needed. [12502/05] Garda Recruitment. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform 291. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for Justice, (Mr. McDowell): I have been informed by the Equality and Law Reform if he will reconsider Garda authorities, who are responsible for the the medical grounds which disqualified a person allocation and deployment of Garda personnel, (details supplied) in County Tipperary from entry that the number of Garda personnel assigned to the Garda Sıóchańa; and if he will make a throughout the country, together with overall statement on the matter. [12445/05] policing arrangements and operational strategy, are continually monitored and reviewed. Such Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform monitoring ensures that optimum use is made of (Mr. McDowell): Entry to the Garda Sıóchańa is Garda resources and the best possible Garda ser- governed by the An Garda Sıóchańa (Admissions vice is provided to the general public. and Appointments) Regulations, 1988, as With regard to Garda resources generally, I am amended. These regulations provide that the pleased that the Government has approved my Garda Commissioner shall not admit a person as proposal to increase the strength of the Garda a Garda trainee unless the person is certified by Sıóchańa to 14,000 members on a phased basis, in a registered medical practitioner to be in good line with a commitment in An Agreed Prog- health, of sound constitution and suited physically ramme for Government in this regard. This is a and mentally to performing the duties of a key commitment and its implementation will sig- ´ ´ member of the Garda Sıochana. nificantly strengthen the operational capacity of In the above regard I am informed by the the force. Garda authorities that the vision standard The Commissioner will now draw up plans on required by Garda trainees is as follows: not less how best to distribute and manage these than 6/9, 6/12 unaided by glasses or contact len- additional resources. Clearly, the additional ses; binocular acuity for near vision should be N8 resources will be targeted at the areas of greatest measured on Snellan test types; both eyes should need, as is envisaged in the programme for be free of organic, congenital or traumatic lesions; have normal visual fields; have normal Government. The programme identifies in part- fundoscopy. The vision of the applicant referred icular areas with a significant drugs problem and to by the Deputy in the question was assessed a large number of public order offences but it will by the medical examiners at the Garda medical be possible to address other priorities as well, department, who concluded that while his right such as the need to significantly increase the eye met the required visual entry standard, his number of gardaı´ allocated to traffic duties as left eye was below the minimum acceptable visual part of the new Garda traffic corps. entry standard set for entry to the Garda I have already promised that the additional Sıóchańa. gardaı´ will not be put on administrative duties. They will be put directly into frontline, oper- Question No. 292 answered with Question ational, high visibility policing. They will have a No. 288. real impact.

Registration of Title. Prison Building Programme. 293. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Justice, 295. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if an application will Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on be expedited for first registration by persons whether the purchase of the Thornton Hall site (details supplied) in County Westmeath; and if he for the proposed new super prison would with- will make a statement on the matter. [12499/05] stand scrutiny from an investigation of the Com- mittee of Public Accounts. [12503/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of Titles that this is an application for a transfer (Mr. McDowell): I am satisfied that the purchase order which was lodged on 12 November 2002. of the site at Thornton Hall will prove to be Dealing number D2002XS010984J refers. This excellent value for money for the taxpayer and application is in the final stages of completion and that proper procedures were followed in its will be completed within the next few weeks. acquisition. 1833 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1834

Illegal Immigrants. he proposes to increase these numbers. [12506/05] 296. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his position Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the granting of an amnesty for illegal workers (Mr. McDowell): I have been informed by the in this State is consistent with his position on the Garda authorities, who are responsible for the granting of an amnesty to Irish persons working detailed allocation of resources, including person- illegally in the United States. [12504/05] nel, that the personnel strength of Ballyfermot 297. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister Garda station as at 18 April 2005 was 74, all for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will ranks. The breakdown of personnel attached to consider the granting of a one time amnesty to special squads at Ballyfermot Garda station as at regularise illegal workers in this State; and if he 18 April 2005 was as set out in the table. will consider such an amnesty as part of the Immi- gration and Residence Bill or as a separate part Unit Sergeants Gardaı´ of his overall immigration reform package. [12505/05] Detectives 1 6 Detective Aids 0 3 Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Drugs Unit 1 4 (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions Nos. 296 and 297 together. Summonses Server 0 1 I do not propose to grant an amnesty either as Warrant Officer 0 1 part of the Immigration and Residence Bill or as Juvenile Liaison Officer 0 1 a separate part of an overall immigration reform package to those who are illegally in the State. Each regular unit is supplemented by personnel For several years now we have been operating from the divisional task force and divisional one of the most liberal economic migration traffic unit. One sergeant and nine gardaı´ are systems in Europe, with large numbers entering attached to the community policing unit at Bally- the State legally for employment purposes. In fermot Garda station. I am also advised that it is addition, we are one of the few states in Europe not Garda policy to disclose the number of per- to have granted full access to our labour market sonnel who will perform duty in any particular on enlargement of the EU to citizens of the new area over a certain period of time for security and member states. operational reasons. Amnesties and regularisations, in my view, undermine the system of legal migration by Garda management will continue to monitor rewarding those who have no legal basis for their and appraise the policing and administrative residence in the country. Also, they reward those strategy employed in Ballyfermot with a view to who abuse our asylum system. It is an integral ensuring an effective Garda service is maintained. element of any asylum system that those who are With regard to Garda resources generally, I am not in need of protection should be returned to pleased that the Government has approved my their countries of origin. proposal to increase the strength of the Garda International experience is that amnesties have Sı´ocha´na to 14,000 members on a phased basis, in a “sponge effect”, that is, an attracting effect, line with a commitment in An Agreed Prog- which brings more illegals into the country to ramme for Government in this regard. This is a avail of them. Amnesties or regularisations are key commitment and its implementation will sig- never once-off. They send out wrong signals by nificantly strengthen the operational capacity of saying that there will be another amnesty or regu- the force. larisation along soon, which in turn encourages The Commissioner will now draw up plans on more illegal immigration. how best to distribute and manage these It is a matter for individual states to determine additional resources. In this context, the needs of whether they grant amnesties to persons who are Ballyfermot Garda station will be fully con- illegally present in their jurisdictions. As the sidered within the context of the needs of Garda Minister charged with responsibility for the Irish stations throughout the country. Clearly, the immigration system, I would not support calls for additional resources will be targeted at the areas such an amnesty in the Irish immigration system of greatest need, as is envisaged in the prog- for the reasons outlined above. ramme for Government. The programme identifies in particular areas with a significant drugs Garda Deployment. problem and a large number of public order ´ offences but it will be possible to address other 298. Aengus O Snodaigh asked the Minister for priorities as well, such as the need to significantly Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of increase the number of gardaı´ allocated to traffic gardaı´ based in Ballyfermot Garda station; the duties as part of the new Garda traffic corps. I units or special squads they are attached to; the have already promised that the additional gardaı´ number available for duty on the ground in Bally- will not be put on administrative duties. They will fermot on each shift; the number of community be put directly into frontline, operational, high gardaı´ based in Ballyfermot Garda station; and if visibility policing. They will have a real impact. 1835 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1836

299. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for increase the number of gardaı´ allocated to traffic Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of duties as part of the new Garda traffic corps. I gardaı´ based in Ronanstown Garda station; the have already promised is that the additional units or special squads they are attached to; the gardaı´ will not be put on administrative duties. number available for duty on the ground in Ron- They will be put directly into frontline, oper- anstown on each shift; the number of community ational, high visibility policing. They will have a gardaı´ based in Ronanstown Garda station; and real impact. if he proposes to increase these numbers. [12507/05] Garda Investigations. 300. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Justice, Equality and Law Reform, further to (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Garda Question No. 110 of 12 April 2005, if he will pub- authorities who are responsible for the detailed lish the full contents of the final report on the allocation of Garda resources, including person- reinvestigation into the assassination of Eddie nel, that the personnel strength of Ronanstown Fullerton once the requisite information and co- Garda station as at 18 April 2005 was 86, all operation has been received from the British ranks. The number of personnel attached to authorities and the PSNI; if he will publish the special squads at Ronanstown Garda station as at interim findings if such information and co-oper- 18 April 2005 was as set out in the following ation has not been forthcoming after a reasonable table. interval; and if so, his views on the length of time which is a reasonable interval for the provision of Unit Sergeants Gardaı´ same. [12509/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Detectives 2 5 (Mr. McDowell): I do not intend to publish the Detective Aids 0 6 Garda reports, whether interim or final, into the Drugs Unit 1 5 review of all matters of concern raised by the Summonses Server 0 1 Fullerton family and their solicitors into the mur- Warrant Officer 0 4 der and the ensuing investigations. However, as I Juvenile (Liaison) Officer 0 1 stated in my reply to Questions Nos. 83, 101, 106, 109, 110, 757, 758, 759, 760 and 761 of 12 April last, when all outstanding matters are clarified by Each regular unit is supplemented by personnel the Garda Sıóchańa upon the receipt of responses from the divisional task force and divisional from the British and Northern Ireland auth- traffic unit. There are one sergeant and 12 gardaı´ orities, I will contact the Fullerton family’s solici- attached to the community policing unit at Ron- tors with a full response to their concerns. anstown Garda station. I am also advised that it As I have no reason to believe, nor have I is not Garda policy to disclose the number of per- received any indication, that either the British sonnel who will perform duty in any particular and Northern Ireland authorities have failed or area over a certain period of time for security and will fail to co-operate with the requests made of operational reasons. them, the question of setting a time limit does Garda management will continue to monitor not arise. and appraise the policing and administrative strategy employed in Ronanstown with a view to Third Level Funding. ensuring an effective Garda service is maintained. With regard to Garda resources generally, I am 301. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Edu- pleased that the Government has approved my cation and Science the amount of funding pro- proposal to increase the strength of the Garda vided to the institutes of technology over the past Sıóchańa to 14,000 members on a phased basis, in ten years; the level of funding provided per line with a commitment in An Agreed Prog- student to the different ITs; and if she will make ramme for Government in this regard. This is a a statement on the matter. [11669/05] key commitment and its implementation will sig- Minister for Education and Science (Ms nificantly strengthen the operational capacity of Hanafin): Details of capital and recurrent funding the force. provided to each institute of technology in the ten The Commissioner will now draw up plans on year period from 1995 to 2004 are set out in the how best to distribute and manage these following documents. Institutes of technology are additional resources. In this context, the needs of not funded on a per-student basis. The annual Ronanstown Garda station will be fully con- budget for each IT is at present allocated on the sidered within the context of the needs of Garda basis of its total pay and non-pay requirements stations throughout the country. Clearly, the following consideration of its annual programmes additional resources will be targeted at the areas and budget submission which is required under of greatest need, as is envisaged in the prog- the RTC and DIT Acts. The allocation takes into ramme for Government. The programme iden- account the complexity of the institute, the range tifies in particular areas with a significant drugs of courses and facilities offered to students, the problem and a large number of public order total number of students and the nature of the offences but it will be possible to address other infrastructure. Decisions on the allocations also priorities as well, such as the need to significantly have regard to Government policy and priorities. 1837 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1838

Recurrent Funding provided to Institutes of Technology 1995-2004

Institute Total Funding

\000’s Athlone Institute of Technology 152,956 Institute of Technology, Blanchardstown 40,424 Institute of Technology, Carlow 140,611 Cork Institute of Technology 377,880 Dublin Institute of Technology 885,808 Dundalk Institute of Technology 139,443 Du´ n Laoghaire Institute of Art, Design & Technology 78,252 Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology 244,664 Letterkenny Institute of Technology 109,820 Limerick Institute of Technology 166,692 Institute of Technology, Sligo 158,418 Institute of Technology, Tallaght 129,130 Institute of Technology, Tralee 139,250 Waterford Institute of Technology 248,176

Totals 3,011,524

Funding comprises: recurrent grant, tuition fees support under Third Level Trainee scheme. in respect of students on Certificate, Diploma and Funding from the Information Technology Degree courses and payments in respect of Investment Fund is also included. Student Services Charge for students eligible for

Capital Funding to Institutes of Technology 1995-2004

Institute Total Funding per Institute

\000’s Athlone Institute of Technology 36,921,254 Institute of Technology, Blanchardstown 76,241,732 Institute of Technology, Carlow 30,854,817 Cork Institute of Technology 71,800,527 Dublin Institute of Technology 103,061,276 Dundalk Institute of Technology 56,355,846 Du´ n Laoghaire Institute of Art, Design & Technology 26,174,108 Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology 58,400,204 Letterkenny Institute of Technology 38,670,150 Limerick Institute of Technology 46,597,193 Institute of Technology, Sligo 45,647,330 Institute of Technology, Tallaght 36,284,320 Institute of Technology, Tralee 36,856,397 Waterford Institute of Technology 56,658,399

Totals 720,523,554

Amounts provided relate to not only state funded and modernisation programme, for example, capital investment programmes, but include also related to access to the school or the ownership capital programmes part funded by the European of the ground. [12276/05] Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and the Minister for Education and Science (Ms European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and Hanafin): As part of a review of all projects for the Scientific & Technological Investment Fund. the 2005 capital programme, an application for capital funding from the school referred to by the Schools Building Projects. Deputy was assessed against the published prior- 302. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Edu- itisation criteria for large-scale building projects cation and Science further to Question No. 959 of which were revised last year following consul- 12 April 2005, if any complications arise with the tation with the education partners. Under this school’s application under the schools buildings review all projects were assigned a band rating 1839 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1840

[Ms Hanafin.] detention, there is no equivalent place at present and the progress of individual projects is being for female offenders who may be imprisoned considered in the context of the school building from the age of 17 years. It is intended that the programme from 2005 onwards. Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform Any difficulties arising with the proposed long- will provide a facility for young women similar to term accommodation solution for the school will that provided for boys. be dealt with during the architectural planning However, until such a facility becomes avail- process when this begins. able, part 10 of the Act cannot be brought into law. Pending commencement, industrial and 303. Ms M. Wallace asked the Minister for reformatory schools continue to be governed by Education and Science the amounts of funding the Children Acts. approved for capital works in respect of primary schools in County Meath during the past five Special Educational Needs. years, on a project basis; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [12278/05] 307. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science her plans to reconsider the 304. Ms M. Wallace asked the Minister for eligibility of dyslexic pupils to remain under the Education and Science the amounts of funding scope of resource teaching (details supplied); and approved for capital works in respect of post-pri- if she will make a statement on the matter. mary schools in County Meath during the past [12317/05] five years, on a project basis; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [12279/05] Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): In light of the reality that pupils in the Minister for Education and Science (Ms high incidence disability categories of mild and Hanafin): I propose to take Questions Nos. 303 borderline mild general learning disability and and 304 together. dyslexia are distributed throughout the education I will arrange for a response to these queries to system, my Department, in consultation with edu- be forwarded to the Deputy. cational interests, developed a general model of resource teacher allocation to schools to support 305. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Edu- students in these disability categories. This cation and Science the progress which has been model, which was announced by my predecessor made in advancing the provision of a new school in 2004 to come into effect from September 2005, building for a school (details supplied) in County was designed to put in place a permanent Meath; and if she will make a statement on the resource in primary schools to cater for pupils in matter. [12293/05] these categories. Circular SP ED 09/04, which was issued to schools in June 2004, introduced the Minister for Education and Science (Ms model. Hanafin): The site for the development of the The model was constructed so that allocations school to which the Deputy refers is being would be based on pupil numbers, taking into acquired by my Department under the terms of account the differing needs of the most the Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002. disadvantaged schools and the evidence that boys When the acquisition has been finalised, con- have greater difficulties than girls in this regard. sideration can be given to including the project in The advantages of using a general allocation the capital programme from 2005 onwards. model are as follows. It facilitates early intervention as the resource is in place in the school Children Act 2001. when the child enrols; it reduces the need for 306. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Edu- individual applications and supporting psycho- cation and Science the sections of the Children logical assessments; it puts resources in place on Act 2001 for which she has responsibility and a more systematic basis, thereby giving schools which have not yet been commenced; and if she more certainty about their resource levels; it gives will report on her intentions in this regard. more security to special education teaching posts [12294/05] and makes special education teaching a more attractive option; it allows flexibility to school Minister for Education and Science (Ms management in the deployment of resources, Hanafin): Part 10 of the Children Act 2001 relates leading to a more effective and efficient delivery to the governance and operation of children of services; and it will automatically adjust a detention schools. Section 159(1) of the Act has school’s general allocation on the basis of chang- been developed for the purpose of allowing three ing enrolment. representatives of children detention schools to This is a model for resource allocation to be appointed to the special residential services schools. These resources may in turn be allocated, board. Part 10 of the Act cannot be developed as appropriate by schools to those pupils with more fully at this time as its effect will include special educational needs in the categories men- replacing the existing industrial and reformatory tioned and to pupils with learning support schools with children detention schools. While requirements. While I am in favour of using a boys aged between 17 and 21 who are convicted general allocation model for the reasons given, I of a criminal offence may be sent to a place of am conscious of the particular difficulties that the 1841 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1842 model announced last year could cause for small sidered again in the future in the event that he and rural schools if implemented as originally progresses into year two, or, the “add-on” year, announced. For this reason I have asked my of an approved ordinary degree, formerly known Department to conduct a review of the model as diploma, which is directly related to his current announced last year. The review will be com- course, or an honours degree course, subject to pleted in the coming weeks and its outcome will the usual conditions of the schemes. Apart from be announced in time to be implemented for the the funding provided through the student support next school year. maintenance grant schemes, financial assistance is also available from my Department through the Higher Education Grants. student assistance fund which is administered by 308. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Edu- the national office for equity of access to third cation and Science if her attention has been level education. The objective of the fund, which drawn to the circumstances outlined in corre- is ESF-aided, is to assist students who might spondence from a person (details supplied) in otherwise, due to their financial circumstances, be County Sligo; if a decision will be expedited; and unable to continue their third level studies. if she will make a statement on the matter. Further information on this fund is available from [12342/05] the student access officer at Sligo IT. A response to this effect will soon be issued Minister for Education and Science (Ms directly to the candidate’s mother who has writ- Hanafin): The decision on eligibility for third ten to me in the matter. level and further education grants is a matter for the relevant local authority or VEC. These bodies Pupil-Teacher Ratio. do not refer individual applications to my Depart- 309. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Edu- ment except, in exceptional cases, where advice cation and Science the number of national or instruction regarding a particular clause in the schools in the Dublin 24 area in which class sizes relevant scheme is desired. exceed 30 or more pupils; the number of national Under the prescribed terms and conditions of school teachers employed by her Department in my Department’s student maintenance grant the years 1999 to 2005; and if she will make a schemes, grant assistance may not generally be statement on the matter. [12343/05] awarded in respect of a repeat period of study at the same level, irrespective of whether or not Minister for Education and Science (Ms funding was previously awarded. However, the Hanafin): The numbers of teachers in service at awarding body may waive this provision in excep- primary level on 30 June of each year from 1999 tional circumstances such as cases of certified to 2004 are: 1999 — 21,258; 2000 — 21,850; 2001 serious illness. It should be emphasised, however, — 22,850; 2002 — 23,935; 2003 — 24,700; and that this discretion would only be exercised where 2004 — 26,039 The information that the Deputy a candidate is repeating a period of study on the requested regarding schools in the Dublin 24 area same course. is not readily available in my Department. If the My Department understands from officials at Deputy would like information on a particular County Sligo VEC, the body responsible for the school, I would be happy to provide it. assessment of the candidate referred to by the Deputy, that he previously attended years one Ministerial Staff. and two of a certificate in computer aided pre- 310. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Edu- cision engineering at Sligo Institute of Tech- cation and Science if, in respect of the category nology in the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 academic of ministerial staff, including those attached to years. The institute confirmed that the candidate Ministers of State in her Department who are not did not return to the second year of the course civil servants but are contracted by her as per- after the first term in January 2000. The candi- sonal assistant, political adviser, programme mandate in question is, in fact, pursuing a different ager and press communications advisers, the course at Sligo IT in the 2004-05 academic year, name of the person; their function; if full-time or which is the higher certificate in mechatronics. part-time employed; the terms of the contract; the My Department understands from officials at level of remuneration, either by hour if part-time County Sligo VEC that the issue of illness in the or as an annual salary. [12367/05] 1999-2000 academic year was raised for the first time with them through the Deputy’s recent rep- Minister for Education and Science (Ms resentations to the VEC. A letter from the Hanafin): There are two staff who are not civil student health services at Sligo IT regarding the servants but who are appointed to full-time posts period concerned was submitted. This does not in my office in the Department of Education and provide the medical evidence required to justify Science. The names and salaries of these staff are: consideration under the exceptional circum- special adviser to the Minister, Ms Averil Power, stances provision of the schemes. In any case, as salary \71,990 per annum; and personal assistant already outlined, the candidate is pursuing a to the Minister, Mr. Carl Gibney, salary \46,119 different course. per annum. Each of the above staff has a standard While the candidate is not eligible for grant contract of employment which is drawn up by the assistance for current course, he may be con- Department of Finance. 1843 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1844

311. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Edu- According to data submitted to my Depart- cation and Science if, in respect of each person in ment by the board of management, the enrolment the employment of the Ministerial office, includ- on 30 September 2004 in the school was 227 ing that of Ministers of State attached to her pupils. The staffing for the 2005-06 school year Department as either personal assistant, political will be determined on the basis of this figure and adviser, programme manager, and press in accordance with the agreed staffing schedule. communications adviser, the cost of travel and maintenance expenses incurred individually by School Accommodation. each persons by name for the calendar year 2004; 313. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for and if she will make a statement on the Education and Science the position regarding matter. [12382/05] new developments or progress with regard to a school (details supplied); and if the pupils, Minister for Education and Science (Ms parents and teachers will be given the maximum Hanafin): As requested by the Deputy, the fol- support. [12418/05] lowing home and foreign travel and subsistence payments were made during 2004 to staff in spec- Minister for Education and Science (Ms ific posts in ministerial offices in my Department: Hanafin): The property management section of Minister, Deputy Hanafin, 29 September — 31 the Office of Public Works, which acts on behalf December 2004: Averil Power, special adviser, of my Department for site acquisitions generally, foreign travel and subsistence — \828.90; and has identified a site which could provide for the Geraldine Butler, press officer, foreign travel and long term accommodation needs of the school subsistence — \439.70; home travel and subsist- referred to by the Deputy. Negotiations are ence — \344.99. Former Minister, Deputy Noel ongoing regarding the acquisition of this site. Dempsey, 1 January — 28 September 2004 : However, the building of a new school on a Jimmy Fegan, special adviser, home travel and greenfield site is only one option being con- subsistence — \10,721.41; Grace Cappock, press sidered by my Department. officer, foreign travel and subsistence — A second option, which could offer a better \2,443.26; and home travel and subsistence — value for money solution, is being examined as \1,291.65. part of an overall review of the primary edu- The rates paid for all travel and subsistence are cational infrastructure in the area where the in accordance with those specified by the Depart- school is located. The purpose of this review is to ment of Finance for the period in question. ascertain the likely demand for pupil places in the medium to long-term and to ensure that existing provision is maximised to meet this demand. School Staffing. This review, which will be completed as quickly 312. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Edu- as possible, will inform any future decision on cation and Science if her attention has been how best to resolve the accommodation needs of drawn to the difficulties faced by Gaelscoileanna, the school in question. such as a Gaelscoil (details supplied) in Dublin 15 which is at risk of losing a teacher in the 2005- Special Educational Needs. 06 academic year due to children continuously 314. Mr. Healy-Rae asked the Minister for leaving; and the special burden on Gaelscoile- Education and Science if she will reconsider the anna; and if she will make a statement on the proposals to come into effect in September 2005 matter. [12417/05] in relation to pupils with special educational Minister for Education and Science (Ms needs (details supplied); and if she will make a Hanafin): The mainstream staffing of a primary statement on the matter. [12419/05] school is determined by applying the enrolment Minister for Education and Science (Ms of the school on 30 September of the previous Hanafin): In light of the reality that pupils in the school year to a staffing schedule, agreed between high incidence disability categories of mild and my Department and the education partners. borderline mild general learning disability and Under current arrangements, the enrolment dyslexia are distributed throughout the education figure required for the appointment of up to the system, my Department, in consultation with edu- eleventh mainstream class teacher and the reten- cational interests, developed a general model of tion of up to the twelfth mainstream class teacher resource teacher allocation to schools to support in a Gaelscoil is lower than that which applies in students in these disability categories. This the case of ordinary national schools. model, which was announced by my predecessor In accordance with the staffing schedule, the in 2004 to come into effect from September 2005, staffing of the school referred to by the Deputy was designed to put in place a permanent for the school year 2004-05 is a principal and nine resource in primary schools to cater for pupils in mainstream class teachers based on an enrolment these categories. Circular SP ED 09/04, which of 229 pupils at 30 September 2003. issued to schools in June 2004, introduced this My Department will finalise the staffing sched- new model. ule for the 2005-06 school year shortly and there- The model was constructed so that allocations after notify school boards of management. would be based on pupil numbers, taking into 1845 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1846 account the differing needs of the most School Staffing. disadvantaged schools and the evidence that boys 316. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Edu- have greater difficulties than girls in this regard. cation and Science if her attention has been The advantages of using a general allocation drawn to the need for an additional teacher for a model are as follows: it facilitates early inter- school (details supplied) in County Dublin; and vention as the resource is in place in the school if, in view of the unacceptable class sizes at the when the child enrols; it reduces the need for school, she will approve the appointment of an individual applications and supporting psycho- extra teacher. [12422/05] logical assessments; it puts resources in place on a more systematic basis, thereby giving schools Minister for Education and Science (Ms more certainty about their resource levels; it gives Hanafin): The mainstream staffing of a primary more security to special education teaching posts school is determined by applying the enrolment and makes special education teaching a more of the school on 30 September of the previous attractive option; it allows flexibility to school school year to a staffing schedule, agreed between management in the deployment of resources, my Department and the education partners. leading to a more effective and efficient delivery The system for allocating teachers to primary of services; and it will automatically adjust a schools is based on ensuring an overall maximum class of 29 in each school. Where some classes in school’s general allocation on the basis of chang- a school have class sizes of greater than 29, it is ing enrolment. generally because a decision has been taken at This is a model for resource allocation to local level to use their teaching resources to have schools. These resources may in turn be allocated, smaller numbers in other classes. as appropriate by schools to those pupils with In accordance with the staffing schedule, the special educational needs in the categories men- staffing of the school referred to by the Deputy tioned and to pupils with learning support for the school year 2004-05 is a principal and four requirements. mainstream class teachers based on an enrolment I have made it clear that while I am in favour of of 130 pupils at 30 September 2003. In addition, using a general allocation model for the reasons I the school has one full time resource teacher and have just given, I am conscious of the particular the services of a learning support teacher. difficulties that the model announced last year My Department will finalise the staffing sched- could cause for small and rural schools if ule for the 2005-06 school year shortly and there- implemented as originally announced. after notify school boards of management. For this reason, I have asked my Department According to data submitted to my Depart- to conduct a review of the model announced last ment by the board of management, the enrolment year. The review will be completed in the coming on 30 September 2004 in the school was 140 weeks and its outcome will be announced in time pupils. The staffing for the 2005-06 school year to be implemented for the next school year. will be determined on the basis of this figure and in accordance with the agreed staffing schedule. Teacher Exchange Schemes. As outlined in primary circular 19/02, an independent appeals board was established to adjudi- 315. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Edu- cate on appeals from boards of management on cation and Science the schemes in place which mainstream staffing allocations in primary allow a teacher from Ireland at primary, second- schools. The appeals board operates indepen- ary and adult education level to exchange with a dently of the Minister and my Department and teacher in other countries for a fixed period, in its decision is final. Appeals must be submitted order that each can gain experience in other’s lan- to: Primary Payments Section, Department of guage, in view of the expanding requirement for Education and Science, Athlone, on the standard teaching foreign languages; and if she will make application form, clearly stating the criterion a statement on the matter. [12420/05] under which the appeal is being made, after the schedule for the 2005-06 school year has issued. Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): My Department arranges teacher School Placement. exchange schemes at post-primary, on a post-to- post basis, between Ireland and Germany and 317. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for between Ireland and France. The purpose of Education and Science the reason a person these schemes is to improve the quality of the (details supplied) is being excluded and ignored teaching of German and French in Irish schools. by all services; and if they will be given a place in The exchanges take place either on the basis of a September 2005. [12423/05] one-term exchange or one year exchange. Appli- Minister for Education and Science (Ms cations for participation in the 2005-06 teacher Hanafin): My officials have been advised that the exchange schemes are currently under consider- child in question is currently attending a Montes- ation within my Department. sori school. I can confirm to the Deputy that my My Department does not operate an exchange officials are continuing to liaise with the parent in scheme for teachers at primary level or teachers relation to appropriate education provision for in further and adult education. this child. Contact will be made with the National 1847 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1848

[Ms Hanafin.] if, in respect of the category of ministerial staff, Council for Special Education, NCSE, in this including those attached to Ministers of State in regard. his Department who not being civil servants but are contracted by him as personal assistant, politi- Disadvantaged Status. cal adviser, programme manager and press communications advisers, the name of the person; 318. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Education their function; if full-time or part-time employed; and Science if schools in disadvantaged areas will the terms of the contract; the level of remuner- not have to make local contributions; the amount ation, either by hour if part-time or as an annual of local contribution they have to make; the salary; and if he will make a statement on the reason schools in disadvantaged areas have to matter. [12368/05] raise these funds. [12513/05] 320. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Defence Minister for Education and Science (Ms if, in respect of each person in the employment Hanafin): The vast bulk of the cost of school of the ministerial office, including that of Mini- building projects is borne by my Department. In sters of State attached to his Department as the circumstances referred to by the Deputy the either personal assistant, political adviser, prog- amount of the local contribution for schools with ramme manager, and press communications disadvantaged status is 5% of the project cost adviser, the cost of travel and maintenance subject to a maximum amount of \12,500. expenses incurred individually by each persons by These arrangements have been approved by name for the calendar year 2004; and if he will the Department of Finance and are of a general make a statement on the matter. [12383/05] application. Minister for Defence (Mr. O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 319 and 320 together. Ministerial Staff. As Minister for Defence, I have contracted 319. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Defence four staff as follows:

Job Description Name Current Salary

Special Advisor to the Minister for Defence. To provide Derek Mooney \71,990 per annum relevant advice to the Minister as necessary Press Advisor to the Minister for Defence. To provide Suzanne Coogan \55,057 per annum press liaison services to the Minister Personal Assistant to the Minister for Defence. To provide Fergal O’Brien \43,751 per annum administrative assistance to the Minister Personal Secretary to the Minister for Defence. To provide Olive McNamara \41,382 per annum secretarial services to the Minister

All of these appointments are to temporary, of persons who had multiple prosecutions insti- unestablished positions in the Civil Service, and gated and succeed against them in each of the are on a full-time basis. The appointments are years listed. [12280/05] subject to the Civil Service Regulation Acts 1956 to 1996 and any other Act for the time being in Minister for the Environment, Heritage and force relating to the civil service. The tenure of Local Government (Mr. Roche): The following these appointments are co-terminous with that of table gives details of the number of prosecutions the Minister for Defence. instigated by my Department against game shoot- The cost of travel and maintenance expenses ers for breaches of the Wildlife Acts since 2000 incurred in the calendar year 2004 is as set out and the number of those prosecutions that were below. successful. No individual was prosecuted on more than one occasion for such offences; however, Name Cost of travel and some prosecutions related to more than one pro- maintenance in 2004 vision of the Wildlife Acts.

\ Year Prosecutions instigated Prosecutions which Fergal O’Brien, Personal Assistant to 820 succeeded the Minister for Defence.

2000 0 0 2001 12 10 Wildlife Acts. 2002 8 8 321. Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for the 2003 7 6 Environment, Heritage and Local Government 2004 6 5 further to Questions Nos. 1321 and 1322 of 26 January 2005, the number of persons who had prosecutions instigated against them and the 322. Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for the number of persons who had prosecutions succeed Environment, Heritage and Local Government against them, thereby demonstrating the number further to the fact that under section 29 of the 1849 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1850

Wildlife Acts 1976 and 2000, he issued licences to the informal all-party group, which I intend to hunt game-birds to resident sportsmen and convene shortly in order to advance the recom- sportswomen in an open season, such licences mendations in a timely and inclusive manner. being endorsed on firearms licences or certificates, the number of such game-bird in open sea- Local Authority Housing. son licences he issued in each of the years 2000, 324. Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for the 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 and the number of Environment, Heritage and Local Government if prosecutions instigated and successfully brought local authorities have easier access to funds from by him against persons found to be hunting game- his Department to construct new local authority birds in an open season when they did not have houses rather than to repair existing vacant a hunting licence endorsed on their firearms cer- houses; his views on whether there is a major tificate for each of the years 2000, 2001, 2002, problem involving the repair and allocation of 2003 and 2004. [12281/05] existing vacant local authority houses and that if Minister for the Environment, Heritage and all vacant local authority houses were allocated, Local Government (Mr. Roche): Under the terms the nationwide housing crisis would improve; the of section 29 of the Wildlife Act 1976, as distribution method of funds in the case of both amended, where a person applies to a superin- existing and new local authority houses to local tendent of the Garda Sıóchańa for a the grant authorities; if his Department will review this sit- of a firearm certificate and makes the requisite uation; and if he will make a statement on the declaration under that section, the certificate matter. [12298/05] shall, if endorsed in the terms specified in the Minister of State at the Department of the section, be deemed to be a licence granted by the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Minister to hunt and kill any protected wild bird, (Mr. N. Ahern): It is the responsibility of the local including game birds, or hare that is covered by authorities concerned to ensure that their houses an open season order made under sections 24 or are re-let to households on their waiting lists as 25 of the Act, as amended. This endorsement quickly as possible after they are vacated. Some function is carried out by the Garda Sıóchańa houses may require refurbishment before they without reference to my Department, and statis- are re-let and this is a matter for individual auth- tics on the number of such endorsements made orities. My Department provides capital funding, on firearms certificates each year is not available subject to conditions, to local authorities for the in my Department. The information sought in the refurbishment of houses that have remained vac- question on prosecutions instigated and success- ant for periods longer than six months and fully brought by my Department is being com- require major refurbishment. Local authorities piled and will be forwarded to the Deputy as soon are required to meet from their own resources as possible. the first \10,000 of the cost of such refurbishment in respect of each dwelling. Seanad Reform. 323. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for the Urban Renewal Schemes. Environment, Heritage and Local Government if 325. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for the the proposal to extend and centralise the elect- Environment, Heritage and Local Government orate for the Seanad graduate panels will be when a decision will be made on the urban and implemented in time for the next election; and if village enhancement 2005 for Strandhill, County he will make a statement on the matter. Sligo; when the funding will be granted; and if he [12297/05] will make a statement on the matter. [12316/05] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): The report on Local Government (Mr. Roche): Sligo County Seanad reform by the Seanad Sub-Committee on Council’s proposals for works in 2005 under the Seanad Reform, published in April 2004, sets out urban and village grant scheme were received by comprehensive recommendations for further con- my Department earlier this month. They include sideration and action concerning the composition, ´ an environmental improvement scheme at functions and future role of Seanad Eireann. Strandhill, County Sligo. These proposals are cur- These include proposals to widen the electorate rently being assessed and will shortly be decided for the higher education constituency and ancil- upon. lary matters such as nomination procedures, fran- chise and registration of electors, and methods of Ministerial Staff. voting and counting. At the request of the Taoiseach I have agreed 326. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for the to chair an informal all-party parliamentary Environment, Heritage and Local Government if, group to establish the extent of cross-party agree- in respect of the category of ministerial staff, ment on the report’s recommendations and to including those attached to Ministers of State in advance, with consensus, proposals for the imple- his Department who not being civil servants but mentation of Seanad reform. I have written to are contracted by him as personal assistant, politi- party leaders and am awaiting nominations for cal advisor, programme manager and press 1851 Questions— 20 April 2005. Written Answers 1852

[Mr. Quinn.] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and communications advisers, the name of the person; Local Government (Mr. Roche): The names and their function; if full-time or part-time employed; functions of persons appointed to the posts of the terms of the contract; the level of remuner- personal secretary, personal assistant and special ation, either by hour if part-time or as an annual adviser to the Minister at my Department are as salary; and if he will make a statement on the set out in the following table: matter. [12369/05]

Minister Dick Roche.

Name Function Full time or Part time

David Grant Special Adviser Work-sharing (4 day week ) Geraldine Cole Personal Assistant Full time Ciara Furlong Personal Secretary Full time

Minister of State Batt O’Keeffe.

Name Function Full time or Part time

Katherine Woods Personal Assistant Full time Donal Howard Personal Secretary Full time

Minister of State Noel Ahern.

Name Function Full time or Part time

Deirdre Heaney Personal Assistant Full time

In addition, Sean Fitzpatrick has been appointed 327. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for the to the post of press officer in my Department in Environment, Heritage and Local Government if, a temporary unestablished capacity for a period in respect of each person in the employment of which will terminate not later than the date on the ministerial office, including that of Ministers which I cease to hold my present office. All the of State attached to his Department as either per- above appointments comply with the Department sonal assistant, political adviser, programme man- of Finance guidelines on the staffing of minis- ager, and press communications adviser, the cost terial offices, and the terms and conditions of the of travel and maintenance expenses incurred indi- staff involved are in accordance with sanctions vidually by each persons by name for the calendar received from the Minister for Finance. year 2004; and if he will make a statement on the Remuneration of these staff is in accordance matter. [12384/05] with the appropriate published standard Civil Service scales for secretarial assistant Houses of the Oireachtas — personal secretary, higher Minister for the Environment, Heritage and executive officer — personal assistant, and princi- Local Government (Mr. Roche): The information pal officer — special adviser and press officer. requested is set out in the following table.

Office of Minister Roche.