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Parliamentary Debates House of Commons Official Report General Committees PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee HEALTH SERVICE MEDICAL SUPPLIES (COSTS) BILL First Sitting Tuesday 8 November 2016 CONTENTS Programme motion agreed to. Written evidence (Reporting to the House) motion agreed to. Motion to sit in private agreed to. Examination of witnesses. Adjourned till Tuesday 15 November at twenty-five minutes past Nine o’clock. Written evidence reported to the House. PBC (Bill 072) 2016 - 2017 No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the final version of the report should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Saturday 12 November 2016 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2016 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1 Public Bill Committee8 NOVEMBER 2016 Health Service Medical Supplies 2 (Costs) Bill The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chairs: †MIKE GAPES,MARK PRITCHARD † Berry, James (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con) † Kendall, Liz (Leicester West) (Lab) † Churchill, Jo (Bury St Edmunds) (Con) † McCartney, Karl (Lincoln) (Con) † Cooper, Julie (Burnley) (Lab) † Madders, Justin (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab) † Cummins, Judith (Bradford South) (Lab) † Marris, Rob (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab) † Davies, Dr James (Vale of Clwyd) (Con) † Selous, Andrew (South West Bedfordshire) (Con) † Spencer, Mark (Sherwood) (Con) † Day, Martyn (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP) † Throup, Maggie (Erewash) (Con) Dunne, Mr Philip (Minister of State, Department of † Whitford, Dr Philippa (Central Ayrshire) (SNP) Health) † Foster, Kevin (Torbay) (Con) Marek Kubala, Kenneth Fox, Committee Clerks † Glen, John (Salisbury) (Con) Jones, Graham (Hyndburn) (Lab) † attended the Committee Witnesses Philip Kennedy, Chair, Association of British Healthcare Industries Dr Keith Ridge, CBE, Chief Pharmaceutical Officer, NHS England Warwick Smith, Director General, British Generic Manufacturers Association David Watson, Director of Pricing and PPRS, Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry 3 Public Bill CommitteeHOUSE OF COMMONS Health Service Medical Supplies 4 (Costs) Bill The Chair: Copies of the written evidence that the Public Bill Committee Committee receives will be made available in the Committee Room, and we will now sit in private to discuss lines of questioning. Tuesday 8 November 2016 9.28 am The Committee deliberated in private. [MIKE GAPES in the Chair] Examination of Witnesses Health Service Medical Supplies Philip Kennedy, Dr Keith Ridge and Warwick Smith (Costs) Bill gave evidence. 9.30 am 9.25 am The Chair: Good morning. We will now hear oral The Chair: I have to make a few preliminary evidence from NHS England, the British Generic administrative remarks.First, please switch off all electronic Manufacturers Association and the Association of British devices or put them on silent. Secondly, I know hon. Healthcare Industries.Thank you for coming this morning. Members understand this, but tea and coffee are not Before I call the first Member to ask a question, I permitted during sittings. We will first consider the remind all Members that questions should be limited to programme motion, which we discussed yesterday in matters in the scope of the Bill and that we must stick to our informal process. We will then consider the motion the timings the Committee has agreed to in the programme to allow us to deliberate in private to discuss our motion. For this session, we have until 10.30 am. Will questions before the oral evidence sittings. I have not the witnesses please introduce themselves for the record? allowed the witnesses to come in now, to save time on Warwick Smith: I am Warwick Smith, the director their going in and coming out again. Then there will general of the British Generic Manufacturers Association be a motion for the reporting of the written evidence and the British Biosimilars Association, which is a for publication. I hope that we can take those matters sector group. formally, without debate, but that is a matter for the Philip Kennedy: I am Philip Kennedy, the chair of the Committee. Association of British Healthcare Industries. Werepresent Ordered, the medical device technology sector in the UK. That— Dr Ridge: I am Keith Ridge, the chief pharmaceutical (1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at officer at NHS England. 9.25 am on Tuesday 8 November) meet— The Chair: Thank you very much. (a) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 15 November; (b) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 17 November; Q1 Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): (2) the Committee shall hear oral evidence in accordance with This question is to Dr Ridge. The pharmaceutical bill the following Table: has increased significantly in recent years—up another TABLE billion pounds in the last financial year. Could you give us some thoughts on why that has been the case? Date Time Witness Dr Ridge: I am absolutely delighted to do so. Just to emphasise some of the increases, I have brought Tuesday Until no later NHS England 8 November than 10.30 am British Generic with me the “Prescribing Costs in Hospitals and the Manufacturers Community” report from the Health and Social Care Association Information Centre, which is now part of NHS Digital. Association of British That organisation routinely publishes information on a Healthcare Industries range of things,including prescribing and drug expenditure. Tuesday Until no later Association of the British In the 2014-15 report—the latest one—it says that the 8 November than 11.25 am Pharmaceutical Industry (ABPI) overall NHS expenditure on medicine in 2014-15 was £15.5 billion, an increase of 7.8% from £14.4 billion in (3) the proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) 2013-14 and nigh on 20% from £13 billion in 2010-11. be brought to a conclusion at 5.00 pm on Thursday 17 November. In 2014-15, hospital use accounted for nearly 43% of —(Mark Spencer.) the total cost—that is up from 40% in 2013-14 and 32% in 2010-11. From 2013-14 to 2014-15, the cost of medicines rose by 7.8% overall but by 15.4% in hospitals. This is a The Chair: The deadline for amendments to be considered particularly important fact: the cost of medicines in at the first line-by-line sittings of the Committee, which hospitals has risen by some 59.8% since 2010-11. will be on 15 November, will be 4.30 pm on Thursday I hope that emphasises where we are in terms of 10 November. expenditure on medicines. There are a number of reasons Resolved, for that. One is around an ageing population, with That, at this and any subsequent meeting at which oral evidence people living longer and multi-morbidities—more than is to be heard, the Committee shall sit in private until the one disease. Of course, in many ways we are very witnesses are admitted.—(Mark Spencer.) grateful to the pharmaceutical industry. I would say this Resolved, as a pharmacist: medicines are a truly wonderful thing. That, subject to the discretion of the Chair, any written evidence They are also the highest expenditure in the NHS after received by the Committee shall be reported to the House for staff, but they have delivered some really important publication.—(Mark Spencer.) therapeutic gains over the years. 5 Public Bill Committee8 NOVEMBER 2016 Health Service Medical Supplies 6 (Costs) Bill When you look to the future in terms of how medicines information required under clause 6 would be too in the specialised areas will change in nature, particularly burdensome and that much of the information that it at the reasons around ergonomics, personalised medicine would be required to provide is information that companies and the ability to be able to target medicines, that will record anyway. Do you disagree with that analysis? affect expenditure, with development costs in among Philip Kennedy: I do disagree with that. From our that, but it will also affect how the pharmaceutical members’ perspective, the data, as we understand it—we industry will price medicines. So there is a raft of would greatly seek some clarity on exactly what data are reasons, largely clinical but also technological, from the being requested—are not routinely collected, particularly past. Going forward, we are going to see more of that. for small companies. Of course we collect data for tax Of course, that is set in the context of the NHS financial purposes, productivity and all the usual parts of running position and the gaps set out in the five year forward a business, but data on profitability at a product level view. would be a huge additional burden for companies that are relatively small in scope. They would not normally Q2 Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab): do that. Even if the information was available, I am not The new proposals suggest a £5 million threshold exemption sure how it would be analysed and reported on effectively, for small companies. I wonder what your views of the to give the information that is sought. We are happy to appropriateness of the magnitude of that threshold are. collect data to run our businesses, but the definition of Perhaps Mr Kennedy might lead on that because it is what is being asked here is something that we would principally your bailiwick. greatly appreciate clarity on. Philip Kennedy: Yes. Thank you. I would like to welcome the question. From our perspective at the Jo Churchill (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): My question ABHI, 99% of the medical device industry is made up is to Dr Ridge and to Mr Kennedy.
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