Thursday, February 16, 1995 •Volume 1,Number 24 Page 1of8 Lugar... 1n• granite• THE Key weekend in presidential sweeps as senator gauges New Hampshire One of the biggest Hoosier political stories of the year takes HOWEY r place this weekend ••• and it isn't happening in Indiana. r Sen.Richard Lugar makes his way to Manchester,N.H., where he will join eight other Republican potential presidential can POLITICAL didates in a Republican Party-sponsored dinner. Indiana cable TV subscribers will be able to watch the dinner at 7 p.m. Sunday on C Span and CNN, and possibly a roundtable discussion on WMUR-TV, Manchester, from 2 to 3 p.m. Sunday on C-Span. REPORT At stake is whether Lugar's fledgling presidential campaign will ignite as he tries to draw a contrast between himself and the so The Weekly Briefing On Indiana Politics called heavyweight contenders - Sens. Bob Dole and Phil Gramm, and former Tennessee Gov. Lamar Alexander. Lugar said on CBS's "Face the Nation" last Sunday that a decision would come within "weeks." He added, "I'm specifically I The Howey Political Report is published by The Newsletter Center,a subsidiary of Nixon Newspapers Inc. focused on the meeting in New Hampshire next Sunday as an oppor tunity to tell my supporters - and I would hope that would become a The Howey Political Report is an independent, non partisan newsletter analyzing the political process in larger and larger group - that I would like to run, I'd like to have them Indiana. It neither endorses candidates nor advocates financially and organizationally and this offers a focal point for that positions of public policy campaign." Brian A. Howey, editor Office/Fax:219-420-0909 Since Lugar announced on Jan. 30 that he would attend the 1707N.Anthony Blvd. Mobilenet: 219-438-5105 dinner, he has appeared on "Larry King Live," and CBS "Face the FortWayne,IN 46805 AOL: [email protected] Nation." On Wednesday, David Broder writing in the Washington Post For Subscription information call: 317-473-3091 called Lugar "the interesting new possibility" in the presidential sweeps and added, "What does set Lugar apart is the seriousness with © 1995, The Howey Political Report which he has thought about the presidency and the set of experiences he would bring to the job:'
continued on page 2 "QUOTE" OF THE WEEK INSIDE FEATURES --*-'..___---111:) "It is only us, who sit here locked in winter's cruel embrace and fear the • HPR Interview: new GOP chair Mike McDaniel pages 6-7 pages4-5 theft of spring .... " • Hot mayoral races on Lake Michigan rim • Early hoping for Quayle decision soon page5 - Tom Tuley of the Evansville Courier on the lingering baseball strike • Columnists on Lugar, Quayle, Reed page8 ------··-.. ···-·----~--~ Thursday, February 16, l 995 Page 2of8
OUTOFTI1E SHAOOW... ~~ "f~ l~~/~
wide national and Indiana coverage.At least two from pag'e 1 lruga r. Sunday morning newi• s::ll:>ws, NBC's "Meet the TICKJE~:R~ In New Hampshire, Lugar will :3ttm1 ?t Press" and ABC's "This 1,'\li:~ek With David T A P E to draw a contrast with the perceived front -rnn Brinkley" will broadc<1s11 live from there. ners over national security, where Grnm rn t : 5 Reporters and TV crew~ from Indianapolis and no experience and Lugar believes Dole bl :u 1~ - '.:]·~ Fort Wayne are expeote·cl 11 o journey to dered last December on a suggestion th<1t 1the Manchester to size up L111;1;ar's chances. IJ.S. Rep.111111 Roemer enc a ~ed in U.S. unilaterally end the arms embargo •tg . n~ t "This is an exc:dl ent opporturuity to afirtendly debate with House the Bosnian Muslims. send a message," said a :;ource close to the sena Majority Leader DickArmry o\erthe The immeruate payoff for Lugar c:ould tor. "This will be a nat io 111111 forum that pr,esents vital issue ofValentine's Day .~.rney well come in the form nf a poll or polls, foLow wide exposure. It will bf
Continued on page 3 continued on page 3 Page3 of8 Thursday, February 16, 1995 Asleep at the wheel in Fort Wayne TICKER Last month, a man named Leslie T A p E Crosby filed for mayor of Fort Wayne as a Democrat. His phone is disconnected and Brian HORSE RA c E Stier, who has become the de facto Allen County Democratic chairman, knows only that Crosby Not only are Democrats in disarray, but U.S. Sen. Dan Coats will address lived in Fort Worth, Tex., until about 18 months so is the Fort Wayne news media. No one has both houses of the Indiana General ago. Party officials even went to his house to try done a background check into Crosby. In fact, Assembly on Monday and Tuesday and track him down with no success. going into the final week before Friday's filing of next week. He will appear before As of late Wednesday night, Fort Wayne deadline, none of the media had even bothered theSenateat 1:45 p.mMondayand Democrats were trying to talk someone they to get up to speed on where the mayoral race the House at 12:30 p.m.Tuesday.The know into running for the right to face two-term was headed. topic will benNew Federalism"and Republican Mayor Paul Helmke. "You have to wonder where the media how Indiana is aprime model to In a normal situation, Democrats could has been:' Stier said "We haven't been able to begin assuming some of the bur slate a candidate this summer, but not with check this guy out:' dens previously held by the federal Crosby in the race. "I thought we'd have a It's a far cry from the days when Ivan government. known candidate, but I'm less sure tonight than Lebamoff and Wm Moses commanded great I was two weeks ago;' Stier said. strength in Indiana's second largest city. Apolitical hearbreak? Jasonville Mayor and Elvis impersonator Lugar, from page 2 making the run. Bruce Borders is not seeking a Wrote Jack Colwell of the South Bend third term in this Greene County city In that format, the speaking order Tribune, "Many of the prominent Washington of 2,200. Borders was the city's first would be: Dole, Gramm, Lugar, Sen.Arlen journalists at the breakfast, despite their reputa Republican mayor m48 years. Specter, Rep. Bob Dornan, former Tennessee tion as a cynical lot, were very kind to Lugar in Gov. Lamar Alexander, former Labor Secretary their remarks and in their evaluation of him as a Lt Gov. Frank O'Bannon has Lynn Martin, economist Alan Keyes, and potential president. come out in support of the 1-69 Buchanan. Gov. Steve Merrill is expected to play Colwell said Lugar called it "an unusual extension from Indianapolis to a prominent role at the dinner and writer P.J. situation" in which "these professional scoffers Evansville. He told aMonroe County O'Rourke will make the closing remarks. at presidential pretenders seemed to be actually Positive Progress luncheon,nl hope While Lugar made two trips to New encouraging him to enter the race." the future's bright" (Kurt Van der Hampshire last spring that were widely inter Lugar sources told HPR, "You could tell Dussen, Herald-Times). O'Bannon preted as a presidential test, sources close to the by the nature of the questioning and then the added that n1 consider it abig senator say a recent Godfrey Sperling breakfast follow-up comments that people were very insult" the monikernroad to with a number of members of the national press intrigued and thought he had something sub nowhere." And O'Bannon noted that corps in early January helped push him toward stantive and positive to offer. n progress was vital prior to 1996, since thenMid-Continent Corridor" highway runs through Arkansas and The Howey Political Report is copyright 1995 by The Newsletter Center, Tennessee, home states of Inc., and Nixon Newspapers, Inc.All rights reserved. Photocopying, faxing President Clinton and Vice or reproducing in any form, in whole or in part, is a violation of federal law President Gore. and is strictly prohibited without the written consent of the editor. Michigan City News-Dispatch read Subscriptions, for 40 editions annually are: ers by an 84-4 tally in an lnfoCentral • $250 - first class mail • $295 - fax poll opined that Congress had no business dealing with the baseball To order The Howey Political Report, call 317-473-3091 or fax invoice strike, information (including Visa and Mastercard, with account number) to 317-473-8428. continued on page 4 Page4of8 Thursday, February 16, l995 TICKEJR Indiana's h~1tt 1 ~ 1 :~,11:: runayorail p1n~'~imary 0 T ra(es abou~d ~rnrr1l Lake 1,,~mchu,1~:1arn rim _Ill 1' l.JlU I I I I.Li When it comes tom a~roral politic:; in at even his most indirnc 1behest and crush a May, fook no further than the south.em r:im of common adversary wh ------·~------·-=-·-·------Pages of8 Thursday, February 16, 1995 TICKER Early awaits Quayle(s) gubernatorial T A p E decision as fund-raising dries up Last Sunday was aday for Now, Indiana awaits Dan Quayle's sec "They're going to let the states reinvent Hoosiers on the news shows. ond shoe to drop: will he or won't he run for government," Early said. "I don't want to put NBC's"Meet the Press" featured governor? Or, will Marilyn Quayle run for gover- myself in a position of drawing the line in the Dan Quayle. CBS's "Face the nor? sand. If he's not going to do it, he's got to let us Nation" had both Indiana Sens. "Dan has got to say what he's going to know.Any delay would help Goldsmith.And Richard Lugar and Dan Coats. Coats is spearheading the opposi do," said Rex Early, a leading contender for the that's not his bag. He's not going to use himself tion against President Clinton's 1996 GOP nomination until Quayle's bombshell to let of us have an advantage." any surgeon general nominee, Dr. hit last week. "He owes it to everybody. People Perhaps the biggest clue to date that Henry Foster, saying the White will sit on their checkbooks." Quayle won't run for governor is Dick Freeland, House has botched the nomina It has been an exasperating week for a close Quayle confidant who is chairing Early's tion.01 find it ironic that the presi Early. He's lined up 20 Lincoln Day dinner gubernatorial campaign. "Freeland called him dent was the one who made the speeches and was doing well on the fund-raising three weeks ago about being my chairman," number of abortions the issue," circuit until the Quayle announcement. He pro Early said. "If he was thinking about governor, Coats said."I would have certainly ceeded with Lincoln Day speeches in you'd think he would have discouraged Dick." gone through the nomination Tippecanoe, Warren and Ohio counties over the Quayle has done little to put out any process if they had been candid weekend, working the theme that "I'm a guy gubernatorial fires. On NBC's "Meet the Press" and forthrtght and come out and with common sense and real-life experiences" Sunday, Quayle said of an Indiana race, "I need said,'Yes, he has performed some and that kind of person will be needed as the time to reflect to decide whether I will run for abortions." Gingrich revolution spins New Federalism (and governor. One thing's sure: If Marilyn runs, I will burdens) to empowered states. support her. n Former Indiana House Speaker Kermit Burrous told Robert Mayors, from page 4 President Dave Devor, a long-time Democrat, Bryan of the Wabash Plain Dealer, filed for mayor as a Republican, acknowledging "I was probably the last of the whom had consulted with party leaders, have certain criticism because "this is a drastic speakers that had the control filed for the right to challenge two-term change." Also filing was 74-year-old Republican there used to be." Burrous also Democratic Mayor Joe Kernan (Jack Colwell, Floyd Nutty, who was defeated in the 1991 pri views the larger legislative staffs South Bend Tribune). The two are Larry M. Scott mary. as mixed blessings. On the good and James W. Philson.A third Republican, side, he said, is that the bright Michael C. Waite was "testing the waters." Scott •INDIANA ROUNDUP: Warsaw Republican energetic staffers serve alegisla raised eyebrows when he wrote a letter to Mayor Jeff Plank is seeking a fourth term. He is tor's constituents better.But,on Kernan that began, "You little WEASEL!" Scott unopposed. ... In Logansport, Republican Gil the downside, they don't have said he was "very insulted" when Kernan noted Thomas withdrew from the mayor's race after enough to do between sessions that Republicans were seeking a "formidable Cass County Auditor Chod Gibson other than to justify their own challenger." filed .... Rochester Mayor Ed Fansler will face a jobs and perpetuate their bosses' primary challenge from Donovan Peterson ... tenure in office. He called them "of • KOKOMO: Republican Howard County Crown Point Mayor James Metros ended specu questionable value" in atime of Commissioner Dave Griffey has announced for lation about his future when he filed for a sec government downsizing. mayor. He will face his friend, City Councilman ond term . He is expected to face Republican James Trobaugh, in the GOP primary. Griffey James Wrrtz in the November election .... In Fort Wayne Mayor Paul challenged incumbent Mayor Bob Sargent four Hobart, director of public works Wayne Snider Helmke and Allen County years ago, losing by a 59-41 percent margin surprised observers by filing in the Democratic Sheriff Joe Squadrito, at odds (Steve Jackson, Kokomo Tribune) Party. He joins Linda Buzinec, former Police last fall,haved patched things up Chief John Clemmons and political newcomer to the point that they announced ametro crtme squad to target • CONNERSVILLE: Fayette County Council Dan Dolan in the May primary. crtme kingpins. Thursday, February 16, 1995 Page 6of8 0 INTERVIEVV Mike McDaniel has been a political governor thing. How will you sort that out? activist since the days when then Indianapolis McDANIEL: I 1.lcm't see me playing a DD3JIJCl~=:JI Mayor Richard Lugar was stumping Mai i o::i role in sorting that ou1.] tl:rink it will sort itself County looking for s11pport for the contrnvmi a.l out in the near future. Am.:l we're still a year or so "Unigov" legislation. out from that primary, s1i :if it does sort itself out He's wanted to be chairman of 1·1, in a relatively short period: of time - the next Republican Party for the past dozen or so ;,cars. couple of months - it wi: l l)e fine. ''! don"t think therie] It finally happened Wednesday when the 20 s. tat·e HPR: Some of the announced candi any question th~' district chairs and vice chairs gathered tbc1ve dates have told me they' 1l rather see it resolved the Spaghetti Factory in Indianapolis and · ·1.1s e in a period of weeks bei: au.1se the fund-raising governor's offi!e t~ him over four other candidates. has frozen up. the major prize fo1 7 McDaniel inherits a political situatior McDANIEL: I'm sure they would. Now not unlike the spaghetti downstaus. His prn: f whether they want me to come and play a role in the Indiana orgcirni cessor,Alan Hubbard, steered the parity ·~hrnugh that is another question. Right now, that thing's zaticm in 1996 ...... J!' a great 1994 election cyde, whicln will b<: h m[ to got to sort itself out top.Additionally, he finds numerous conu >• :·-. HPR: Then the:re's the Goldsmith situ sies at hand- the 1996 gubernatorial race and ation. Ther·e has been a 101: of turmoil in the the Goldsmith and Quayle factors; and a stfln' Marion County organ 1wtion. How important is 0 school superintendent who hm aligned Ihe::;; 1f it to the state party to ge:t everybody on the with the Democratic governor. same page there? "I'm not going to HPR conducted this interview wiith McDANIEL: Once again, Steve is run meddle in sped#ic McDaniel minutes after his victory: ning for mayor and hc:'s working hard at being HPR: What was the gi~t of ~ne p !5:·1· mayor. He's already anni1·1.mced he's seeking legislation. We h1a·ve tation you made before the Central Corn1:.r11 m1:e? another term. I think th 3.t one is going to take 1 a lot of capable P·•~o McDANIEL: My presentatfon ·11asn 1· care of itself eventually. flle's been very straight much different than the others. We all agu t d w·e forward; he's not going 10 make any commit ple who can sonr· need to spend a lot of ti.me bm:Cing up .h~. or5a ments on 1'996 yet and 1hat's probably the only that OrJtthem~ nization. We can do that in 19'95 and 1rry le ~dn way it could go. I have to be honest with people ,f ,, back some mayor races, then hit the grc-.1 :-d about that. se.ves•••• running hard in 1996.So the real emphas1; i!> HPR: There hiL:s been so much empha -Mike McDa.mi1e! going to be on organization building in 1995 .. sis in the media and wi1h the party pros about HPR: Where are the areas that you 1996, even beforelast yuir's election ended. Do need to build up? you think people have· b·e·m racing out ahead of McDANIEL: You have to come to a. what they should be taking about? consensus with the county chairmen as to wl2 2.1 McDANIEL: Xdon't think there's any exactly they should be doing to help win eke· question the governor':; 1C1ffice is the major prize tions. And once everybody decides what th.e for the Indiana organlwtion in 1996.Butfrom basic responsibilities are, to train those cow111y what I heard from tht· s1::a1te committee today, organizations who need help to make them bet they are eager to win bt1clc as many mayor's ter so that we can be even stronger in 1996. offices as possible in '9~i .. The idea is to train the Q HPR: You have a couple of ticklii:h :;itu organization to do tru Ill,ljS well, use the 1995 elec- ations at hand, first of which is the Qua:,•le :for tion as kind of a test of that training and then go connnued on page 7 ------·------·-·-··--·--======- Page 7of8 Thursday, February 16, 1995 into 1996 so we can hit the ground running to one of the reasons I got involved in politics try and win back the governor's office, hang on back in 1969; traveling all over Marion County to both houses in the legislature and our con trying to convince people of a new program. HUMOR gressional delegation, if not make some Unigov was not a real popular program when M L L progress. he first started out. I can remember being a HPR: The other controversy brewing senior in high school and was so intrigued by comes with the IPASS issue and Supt. Suellen this very young mayor doing this that I bor Wendellisms, Reed's association with Gov. Bayh. How do you rowed by father's car and drove to Lawrence by Wendell Trogdon, proceed there? Township to see Dick Lugar in a public forum Indianapolis News McDANIEL: I don't know. I know with a very unruly crowd, explaining his idea. there are some people sensitive to that issue. And by the time the evening was over, he had "When folks in New Hampshire But I know that Suellen in her heart is doing converted most of the crowd into believing that say the sap is running it's not certain what she thinks is right for education. But she's was a good idea.And I will never forget the they're talking about maple trees or going to have to be sensitive to the perceptions power of that night in that room where I presidential candidates.• within the party because she is in a convention watched Dick Lugar do that.And that is one of situation.Any time you're in a convention situa the reasons that I've always been interested and "We haven't heard much about tion, you better pay attention to what the party worked so hard in politics is because I feel there Hillary Rod ham Clinton this feels or you're going to have a problem. are some good people out there doing things. year...not that anyone is complain HPR: Will you want to sit down with He's certainly one of those people.I agree with ing." her and go over everything and find common those people who say we're tired of politics by ground? news release; we want governing by compe "It Is still possible, though, for McDANIEL: I may at some time. tence. If so, Dick Lugar will be a great president. anyone to grow up to be presi Suellen and I get along fine, so that may happen HPR: In the 1996 congressional races, dent...as long as he or she can raise down the line. are you going to be looking at the 3rd and the $25 million." HPR: The more I think about it, 9th CDs? you've inherited all kinds of problems. McDANIEL: We're going to look hard McDANIEL: These aren't problems, at both of those. I think Jean Leising worked these are opportunities. her heart out in the 9th. I haven't talked to Jean Times of••• Munster columnist HPR: The informed consent legisla yet, but I think she's eager to give that another Phil Wieland writes that the city of tion and the freshman class in the legislature shot. She'll be even more prepared next time Gary can't put riverboat casinos on have been kind of antsy. What role do you see around as compared to this time. I also think Lake Michigan because of an obsti yourself playing there? the 3rd will get a good look. nate cement company. The other McDANIEL: I don't. I don't see myself HPR: You're going to have to try and option is Bums Ditch."lt was enough playing a role in a lot of those issues areas. I hold on to some tough legislative seats - Lohr, of amisnomer that Lake County was think the state chairman's role is what Al Kimmel, Heffley, Becker to name a few.Any going to have rtverboats when they Hubbard did so well in his role as chair: bring thoughts on how you go about doing that? were on the lake. Now, instead of parties together, get them to agree on common McDANIEL: One of the smartest lakeboats we are going to have agendas, then go out and help them get those things I've seen going on in the legislature with ditch boats? Maybe Gary should go agendas accomplished.Al did a great job doing in the Republican Party is in the House. They with canoes until things are alittle that prior to the last two legislative sessions. If I have developed a mentoring program. They've more settled And no tipping." can do that, I'm not going to meddle in specific assigned a mentor to them and are really try legislation. We have a lot of capable people who ing to help those freshmen coming along a lot can sort that out themselves. faster than if they were just out there on their ••• HPR: The Lugar presidential bid, what own. I think that's going to go a long way to Devil's Dictionary, are your thoughts on that? make them veterans before the end of their first by Ambrose Bierce McDANIEL: Dick Lugar would be an terms, instead of being rookies all the way unbelieveable president. He would be a fantas through. Those people who won in those tough Presidency, n. The greased tic president. He's clearly one of the most com areas are blatantly aware of how tough those pig in the field game of petent people in the United States Senate. He's areas are. They will be prepared. American politics. -----"·-············-·---~-· Page 8 of 8 Thursday, February 16, 19'95 1 COL U~11fi\Jl~'.~ ][~;S 0 N •mm m111 dD•um1m:mn,::rn1111 rn:11u~im~n ~1cm~111 Jack Colwell, South Bend Tribune - For Dan dates in the 8th Congm:; c1nal District race last Quayle, it was now or never. It will be neve:r. Par fall spent nearly $1 miWiC1n apiece. It's time to Dick Lugar, could it be now? The two ques1ticm consider providing comp l1e:te public financing of oft asked recently about the two most pmminent political campaigns. Wb.itn the money in politics Hoosiers on the national ]political scene hd. closes the door on somecin 1e as powerful as been why Quayle would do and whether Lugar Quayle, it shuts a lot of tl1 e rest of us out, too. will do it - run for president. In Indiana, even among those who know Quayle is the vie tim of Mary Dieter, LouisviU~ (:,o,urier-Journal - The Read Bri .rn Howey's an undeserved image of lacking smarts, t h,e re ultraconservatives are 1)11 State School Supt. r1 Suellen Reed because bi: r're convinced there's weekly column in were suggestions that Quayle 1n for gown 1::.-, thes1~ gre,lt Indiana not president. Such suggestions were bas ~d oo a something evil about IP.ASS. More disturbing is new:, papers faulty theory that Quayle somehow could the undercurrent of an3e r coming from emerge from a term or two as governor to Republican stalwarts ~1h,1 m furious L11at she Ango.ra Herald-Republican become a heavyweighl on the national scme. would align herself witht 1:: tyh, their nemesis. Maybe he will be governor some day. Ma1'b'1~ a Former state GOP Chain:.1:m Rex Early, who is Anderson Herald-Bulletin very good one. But it was now or never for pre fr. traveling the state in a gubernatorial bid, con 1 Auburn Evening Star dent. firmed that 'there is som i: concern that Suellen Reed has been rolled b:r I he governor. He has Bedford Times-Mai/ David Broder, Washington Post - After Hs d:ls · heard of at l1east two people who are already Blufflon News-Banner quisition on the (budget deficit), Luga:- said thinking of challenging Il1e: ed for fu,e party's something I guarantee no one dse in the fidd nomination in 1996. The rnrrent chairman, Al Brazii Times would have said: 'There are many other impor·· Hubbard, paused before addressing the matter. 11 Columbia City Post & Mail tant issues - welfare reform, crime, the dc:vo lu·· I don't think I want to l~'e I imto it," he said. When 11 Connersville Ne ws-Examim 1 tion of power to the states, and so on. But form pushed, he said, there's b~:en concern 1expressed nately, we have many talented ]people in about Suellen Reed's ac1tivi.ties, and I would Decal ur Dai!_v Democrat Washington and around the country to ·v1·ork on encourage her to work clirnely with the 1 Elkhart Trulh those problems. Only the presid 1mt can d(·a V'it J Republican legislators. ' the two challenges on which our future n:al!!y Fountain County Neighbor depends - nuclear security and fiscal sanit)11." FranAfort Times Tom Tuley, Evansville Gc1u:rier - It is one of the John Krull, Indianapolis News - Dan Quayl e':s foremost joys of our urbringing- not the game Indianapolis Business Jou ma. withdrawal from the 1996 presidential rai:e itself, perhaps, but the ri1 es of renewal, the Indianapolis News demonstrates just how sinister our politi:al annual ritual of assurann: that there is a tomor Kendallville News-Sun process has become. Just to stay compethve, a row, there is another charn.:e, there is, indeed, a candidate likely will have to have $25 mmion bright and beautiful spril11g at the end of every Muncie Evening Press socked away by the end of this year. Supp c1s1e dark and cold winter.AU too often, we need Michigan City News-Dispaln1 there are four serious challengers on the reminding, and reinforcing, that hope really Republican side. Together, they will spmJ. rn o.re does spring eternal. But 1his reminder is in dan New Castle Courier-Times than $100 million - before the general ekction ger this year, so much w that even President Newton County Enterprise campa.gn even starts. The problem migh not be Clinton stepped in last w1!1::k and tried to break so bad if it were confined to the presidential the stalemat 1e. He failed. ::llo what is left? It is not Peru rr,ibune race, but it isn't. Money influences and corrupts players, or owners, or tlu game, or even the Shelbyville News every level of our political process. Candid·1te~ institution that will suffer. It is only us, who sit in Indiana's next gubernatorial campaign v.riU here locked in winter's cn;1el embrace and fear Wabosh Plam Dealer spend more than $10 million. The two canc.i- the theft of spring.