Vol. 737 Thursday No. 16 14 June 2012

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Death of a Member: Lord Archer of Sandwell Announcement Questions Animal Welfare Schools: Admission Libraries Environment: Rio+20 Conference Business of the House Timing of Debates Examiner of Petitions for Private Bills Motion to Approve Joint Committee on Human Rights Membership Motion Youth Unemployment Motion to Take Note Schools: Well-being and Personal and Social Needs Motion to Take Note Banking Reform Statement European Rail Market: EUC Report Motion to Take Note Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page

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© Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2012, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU; email: [email protected] 1411 Death of a Member[14 JUNE 2012] Animal Welfare 1412

which is concerned with working animals, particularly House of Lords equids, in developing countries. We welcome the European Thursday, 14 June 2012. Commission’s report of 10 November 2011 on its review of Regulation 1/2005, and agree that the first 11 am priority should be better enforcement of the existing legislation across Europe. However, we share the Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Chester. disappointment of many that the recent recommendation by EFSA that horses going to slaughter should not Death of a Member: Lord Archer of face journeys exceeding 12 hours has not been adopted Sandwell by the Commission. While it would be illegal for us to Announcement act unilaterally in an area that is already covered by directly applicable EU legislation, we will continue to 11.05 am push for this recommendation to be adopted by the European Commission at the earliest opportunity. The Lord Speaker (Baroness D’Souza): My Lords, I regret to inform the House of the death of the noble Baroness Trumpington: My Lords, as a former president and learned Lord, Lord Archer of Sandwell, earlier of the organisation that the noble Lord, Lord Dear, today. On behalf of the House, I extend our most spoke of, and having taken a Bill through this House sincere condolences to the noble and learned Lord’s on this very subject and pursued this very distasteful family and friends. European practice, if I may say so, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware of the trade from South Animal Welfare America to Italy, with horrible conditions in the ships Question for the horses, which are then turned into sausages or whatever the Italians care to eat? 11.06 am Lord De Mauley: My Lords, I am grateful for the Asked By Lord Dear work that my noble friend has done in this area. I To ask Her Majesty’s Government what initiatives think that noble Lords around the House share her they intend to pursue to protect the welfare of horror, as do I, at the conditions in which these animals, with special regard to the long-distance unfortunate animals travel. As I say, we are pressing transport of horses. the Commission to adopt the EFSA rules. I am not aware specifically of the position on the transport of Lord Dear: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question animals between South America and Italy, and I will standing in my name on the Order Paper. In so doing, look into it. I declare an interest as a trustee of World Horse Welfare, a registered charity previously known as the Lord Knight of Weymouth: My Lords, the International League for the Protection of Horses. Government’s record on animal welfare is now in tatters, given that they are not listening to science on Lord De Mauley: My Lords, the Government will badgers, are dragging their heels on animals in circuses continue to ensure that the requirements of the EU and have made a shambolic U-turn on shooting buzzards. rules regarding welfare during transport are applied [Laughter.] We can see how seriously the party opposite robustly to all long-distance transporters of horses takes animal welfare from its reaction to that. Given operating within the UK. We will continue to press the that more than a million people have signed the petition European Commission to introduce the recommendation on the long-distance transport of horses for slaughter made by the European Food Safety Authority that organised by Animal Angels and that MEPs now horses travelling for slaughter should not face journey agree that the limit should be eight hours, is it the times exceeding 12 hours. Government’s policy that the limit should be eight hours or the 12 hours that the Minister talked about? Lord Dear: My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the suffering that is caused to around 65,000 horses Lord De Mauley: My Lords, most animal welfare each year as they are transported across Europe for NGOs want an automatic eight-hour limit on all slaughter, often over very long distances and in totally journeys for all livestock going to slaughter. The EFSA unsatisfactory conditions, with many of them ending report did not recommend such an approach, recognising up on the plates of southern European restaurants. that different species can be transported over different Further, he may be aware that EC Regulation 1/2005 periods of time without unnecessary suffering. Scientific allows for proposals to be made to regulate those research supports the argument that the quality of journeys if scientific evidence supports that change. In transport and the competence of the driver tend to be the light of that, can the Minister confirm that since the major factors in the welfare of animals during evidence supporting that change was indeed presented transport and not necessarily the length of the journey to the Commission by the European Food Safety time. Authority last year, the Government have now pressed the Commission for a proposal to limit the maximum Lord Addington: My Lords, does my noble friend journey time for horses destined for slaughter? agree that, although government can do quite a lot, our own experience has shown that public opinion can Lord De Mauley: Yes, my Lords. I thank the noble change things quickly? Is the Minister encouraging Lord for the work he does in this area. I, too, need to our Government to talk to the rest of Europe about declare an interest as president of the charity SPANA, raising public awareness in those countries? 1413 Animal Welfare[LORDS] Schools: Admissions 1414

Lord De Mauley: That is a very important point, Lord Lucas: My Lords, I am sad that my noble and it will form part of what we are doing at the friend does not share my disappointment that, after so European Commission. many decades of pontificating and after my right honourable friend Michael Gove’s speech on the need Lord Donoughue: While it is commendable to press to rebalance the independent and state sectors, no the European authorities for more action, will the UK party seems prepared to engage with an initiative from Government not do more themselves especially to a trusted intermediaries such as the Sutton Trust to protect the UK horse population from threats to its take advantage of all the work done under the previous health? In particular, will he commit the Government Government to improve the state system and relationships to increasing the levels of surveillance of this problem between the state and the independent sector and in British ports? make a radical change to the balance between state and independent education. Can he offer no hope to Lord De Mauley: My Lords, I have a lot of sympathy the Sutton Trust in its ambition to make a change with the noble Lord’s words. We would prefer to see which will otherwise take 50 years on the best possible the export of meat or germ plasm rather than of course? livestock, and that animals are slaughtered as close as is practical to their point of production. However, the Lord Hill of Oareford: My Lords, I am extremely export of livestock for slaughter within the EU is keen, as are the Government, to encourage as much perfectly legal. To ban it would be illegal under existing co-operation as possible between the independent sector EU competition legislation. That legal position has and the maintained sector. The noble Lord will know been confirmed by rulings by the European Court of better than me the number of examples of independent Justice and by High Court cases. The Government are schools working with the maintained sector in a variety committed to improving the welfare of animals. If of different ways—whether through involvement in animals are exported live, their transportation should the academies programme, coming into the maintained comply fully with the necessary legal requirements as sector or providing courses for children at local maintained laid down in EU and national law. schools, all of which I thoroughly applaud. However, Baroness Fookes: My Lords, the treatment of animals the main priority of the Government is to do what we in transport—not only horses but all kinds of farm can to raise the standards for the vast majority of animal—is a long-standing disgrace, and I am sick children in maintained schools. That is the focus of and tired of all the excuses. If it is important that we the work we are doing. have good transport and good drivers as the Minister Lord Lea of Crondall: My Lords, does the Minister has said, what action will he take to ensure that that is agree with the speech referred to by the noble Lord, seen to? I should probably declare an interest in that I Lord Lucas? Are the Government backing the speech am involved with a good many animal charities. by Mr Michael Gove pointing out that apartheid in Lord De Mauley: My Lords, enforcement provisions the British education system is causing great damage and procedures by which the various regulations are to our society and that the Government must do applied are in the Welfare of Animals (Transport) something about it? (England) Order 2006 and similar legislation in Scotland, Lord Hill of Oareford: I am sorry, my Lords, I Wales and Northern Ireland. AHVLA and local thought I had said that in overcoming that divide the authorities are responsible for regulatory and enforcement Government are extremely keen, as is the Secretary of action under this legislation. State, to pursue the goal of bringing the two sectors together in as many ways as we can. As I said, some of Schools: Admissions that is through sponsorship of academies. The free Question schools programme, to which I just referred, will welcome high quality independent schools into the maintained 11.14 am sector, providing a good quality of education free for Asked By Lord Lucas children from all backgrounds. It follows from some of the initiatives that the previous Government took To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they to bring some of those schools into the academy will allow independent schools, particularly those sector. which were formerly direct-grant grammar schools, to join the state sector on the basis of needs-blind Baroness Walmsley: Will my noble friend reaffirm admission. the Government’s clear statement that they do not want an expansion of selection among schools maintained The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for by the state? In that connection, will he consider Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): My Lords, the clarifying the law on expansion of existing grammar Government already allow high performing independent schools and, if necessary, change it if it is not meeting schools to join the state sector by submitting successful that objective? applications to become free schools. Free schools are independent state-funded schools that do not charge Lord Hill of Oareford: Yes, my Lords, the Government’s fees, must abide by the schools admissions code and position on selection is clear and we have no plans to are not able to have selective admissions criteria. It change it. The existing legislation that governs the would therefore be open to the kind of schools to prohibition on the introduction of new selective schools which my noble friend refers to apply to join the state remains in place. The only change that the Government sector. have made since we came in is the ability of schools of 1415 Schools: Admissions[14 JUNE 2012] Libraries 1416 all types to expand their number locally in response to they might consider before closing front-line public parental demand, if they are popular schools, because library services. Arts Council England, too, has launched we are keen to give parents more ability to get their the libraries development initiative, which is funding children into local popular schools. projects to explore innovative ways of working to help shape a resilient vision for future public library services. Lord Adonis: My Lords, will the Minister congratulate the growing number of independent schools which The Earl of Clancarty: My Lords, the Minister may have joined the state system in recent years as academies be aware that the Public Libraries News website has by giving up both fees and selection? In particular, will recorded 121 libraries as having closed within the past he commend Belvedere School in Liverpool, William 18 months, while over 600 more are currently threatened Hulme’s Grammer School in Manchester, Bristol with closure. This Government have chosen to close Cathedral Choir School and Colston’s Girls’ School in libraries while they promote literacy, cross the digital Bristol, which are doing a fantastic job as state academies divide and allow children to explore their natural love and are open to their population as never before by of reading. Is that a choice that they can defend? becoming academies, giving up fees and giving up the 11-plus? Baroness Rawlings: My Lords, I know that the Lord Hill of Oareford: I know that this subject is noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, has a great interest in this very dear to the heart of the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, and we all have sympathy for many of his views, but and I am extremely aware of all the work that he has we are aware that some libraries have found difficulties done for many years to pursue that goal. Those schools in the present climate. To help libraries to become are making a fantastic contribution. I was looking at more efficient and successful in every way, the Government their results the other day. Since they have come into have transferred the MLA’s responsibility for libraries the maintained sector, without selective admissions, development to the Arts Council, which is working they continue to perform an extremely good job. A with local government associations on its new libraries number of schools across the country demonstrate development initiative. For the many noble Lords who that it is possible to achieve outstanding results if they are interested, a long list of projects that the Government have high aspiration, high ambition, an orderly have supported and which are receiving funding is environment and work hard for all of their children to available on the Arts Council website. do well. Baroness Bakewell: My Lords, are the Government Lord Lexden: My Lords, does my noble friend aware that there are 250 literary festivals in this country recall that some years ago, when I was its general and that the numbers are increasing? There is an secretary, the Independent Schools Council put forward appetite among people and children for more books for discussion an ambitious set of proposals to provide than they can afford. How is the declared ambition for open access to schools of all types in the independent improved literacy among children to be achieved if sector? Under these proposals, government expenditure libraries are closing? per pupil would be no higher than in mainstream, maintained schools. Pupils of a wide range of ability and aptitude would benefit, with families on low incomes Baroness Rawlings: My Lords, I am fully aware of being offered free places. Will the Government now the interest of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, in give consideration to some such arrangement? libraries and children because we have discussed this several times, and I know that the literary festivals are Lord Hill of Oareford: My Lords, I said in my reply mushrooming all over the country. Children’s literacy, to my noble friend Lord Lucas that the focus of what as we have said before, is vital. We know how important the Government are doing is to attempt to raise the it is for libraries not to close—we have a wonderful standards in the bulk of the maintained sector, so that Library here—but robust data on the libraries sector more schools are able to achieve for their pupils the are published annually by the Chartered Institute of results that the most outstanding schools in the maintained Public Finance and Accountancy.It is a local government sector are already delivering. That is our focus and decision if libraries are closed. some of these other ideas, interesting though they are, are not where our priorities lie. Lord Jones of Birmingham: Can the Minister please comment on the fact that, due to the successive policies Libraries of Governments of all parties over many years, one in five adults in this country now cannot read to the Question standard expected of an 11 year-old? Governments of all parties have then expected business to go out and 11.21 am compete in a globalised economy with a workforce Asked By The Earl of Clancarty that is not fit for purpose. Will she please comment on To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action the fact that libraries make a considerable contribution they will take to protect public libraries from closure. to enhancing literacy in the adult population at a time when we in business need all the help we can get? Baroness Rawlings: My Lords, DCMS Ministers have taken a number of actions to oversee and promote Baroness Rawlings: The noble Lord, Lord Jones, the public library services provided by the local authorities, makes a valid point. We are fully aware of the importance including writing to authorities to set out ideas that of literacy in schools. My noble friend has just confirmed 1417 Libraries[LORDS] Environment: Rio+20 Conference 1418

[BARONESS RAWLINGS] Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall: I will come to my that we are giving high priority to children’s literacy. question but I wish to make the point that at 8 o’clock We are all aware of the importance of libraries not just this morning I was reading How to Catch a Star with for books but as a social and peaceful space for my two year-old grandson. Does the Minister agree people. People understand that this is not just about that for children who do not have the good fortune to the facilities. Libraries also provide a lot of electronic have a number of books in their house, libraries are information, but it all goes together. As I said, we are very important and that the issue is not just that there fully aware of the importance of libraries. are enough of them when you take the country as a whole but that there are enough of them locally for the Baroness Gardner of Parkes: In view of the concerns people who are least able to access transport and who expressed, particularly by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, are most likely not to go if the difficulty of getting to who pointed out how many libraries are at risk, will the library increases? the Minister tell me in what circumstances the Government will intervene to stop a library closing? Baroness Rawlings: Yes, libraries are vital for children, as is their school, which also has books. Transport to Baroness Rawlings: The Secretary of State has a get to libraries or to any other public places where primary duty under the 1964 Act, but he must also children learn is, of course, of paramount importance. make certain that local authorities uphold their statutory duty to provide a comprehensive and efficient library Environment: Rio+20 Conference service. If the Secretary of State thinks that a local authority has failed in that duty, he may call a local Question inquiry to investigate, but it will not be for solely financial reasons. 11.29 am Asked By Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead Lord Borrie: My Lords, in an earlier answer, the To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they noble Baroness indicated that this is essentially a local intend to promote the inclusion in the outcome government matter. However, does she not agree that document of the Rio+20 conference of a commitment under the Public Libraries and Museums Act, central to the right to safe and clean drinking water and government must ensure that local government does sanitation as a human right. its job of providing an effective public library service properly? Lord De Mauley: My Lords, the UK has long recognised the right to water as an element of the right Baroness Rawlings: The noble Lord, Lord Borrie, of everyone to an adequate standard of living and is makes a very valid point. The terms “comprehensive now in a position to support the inclusion of commitments and efficient” are not defined in the 1964 Act. However, to the right both to safe and clean drinking water and broadly speaking, the Act requires local authorities to to sanitation as a human right in the Rio+20 outcome provide free of charge access for people who live, work document. or study in the area to borrow or refer to books, printed materials and pictures in line with their needs Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead: I thank the Minister and requirements. for his response to my Question. The focus from the Government is very much on water and there is little Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords— concentration on the importance of sanitation, but it is indispensible to public health and vital for human Lord Stoneham of Droxford: My Lords— development. Does the Minister recognise that the lack of sanitation is a major cause of diarrhoeal Noble Lords: Lib Dems! disease, which is the second biggest killer of the world’s children? Against this background, will he tell me Lord Stoneham of Droxford: In view of the importance when the Government will conclude their exceedingly of libraries, have the Government any plans to update long review, join the majority of OECD countries, and review the 1964 Act? really acknowledge that sanitation is a human right and, at last, ratify the UN right to sanitation?

Baroness Rawlings: The Government are building Lord De Mauley: My Lords, I thought that that was on the future libraries programme and the libraries what I had just said. The right to sanitation is not development initiative, which is run by Arts Council specifically provided for under any of the international England and is designed to test new approaches to the human rights treaties. The UK has therefore waited library service. In February 2012, Arts Council England until it was satisfied that there was sufficient basis in and the Local Government Association awarded £230,000 international law to recognise the right without to fund 13 library projects across England. At the undermining the international human rights framework. moment, these difficulties are being looked into further. While placing a high priority on improving sanitation in development terms, the UK has, I think understandably, Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall: May I tell the been cautious about recognising new rights under Minister— international law—as, presumably, were the previous Government, who, while recognising the right to water Noble Lords: Oh! in 2006, did not recognise the right to sanitation. 1419 Environment: Rio+20 Conference[14 JUNE 2012] Joint Committee on Human Rights 1420

Lord Roberts of Llandudno: My Lords, I am grateful Lord De Mauley: I quite agree with my noble friend. to the Minister for his reply to the noble Baroness. Of Training is at least as important as the dropping of the course, we realise that every fifteen seconds a child will well in the first place. die of cholera. Emergencies arise and we need to respond to needs in various places. What do the Government have by way of a supply of water purification Lord Geddes: Does my noble friend agree that units and tablets in order to meet any emergency water is already, and will increasingly become, the demands? most valuable commodity that the world has and that its conservation is vital?

Lord De Mauley: I cannot give my noble friend a specific answer now, but I will write to him. On a more Lord De Mauley: Yes, that is becoming increasingly general basis, on 20 April, at the Sanitation and Water apparent. for All high-level meeting, the Secretary of State for International Development committed to doubling The Earl of Listowel: My Lords, the Government the UK’s ambitions on water, sanitation and hygiene made a commitment in the Queen’s Speech to giving to reach at least 60 million people by 2015. 0.7% of gross national income to the developing world. Have they planned to legislate for an ongoing commitment The Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells: My Lords, I to give 0.7% of gross national income to the developing declare an interest as an ambassador for WaterAid world? and acknowledge that the Rio+20 conference in June followed the Johannesburg summit at which world Lord De Mauley: I will write to the noble Earl. leaders agreed that the current millennium development goals on sanitation remain substantially off-track in terms of global development targets. Can the Minister kindly give some further information on what the Business of the House United Kingdom is doing to help to reverse this neglect, Timing of Debates which kills more than 700,000 people a year, 90% of them children under five? 11.36 am Moved By Lord Strathclyde Lord De Mauley: There are a number of questions within the right reverend Prelate’s question. He referred That the debates on the Motions in the names of to the millennium development goals. We are committed Lord Adonis and Baroness Jones of Whitchurch set to those goals. There is also the question, of course, of down for today shall each be limited to 2½ hours. the link between them and the sustainable development goals. It is important to look to the framework post-2015, Motion agreed. to which we are paying a great deal of attention.

Baroness Hayman: My Lords, access to sanitation Examiner of Petitions for Private Bills and clean water is obviously a crucial health issue. Motion to Approve Does the Minister agree that it is also an important issue in regard to that great driver of development, 11.36 am girls’ education? Girls who have to spend their time going long distances to collect water, or girls who do Moved By The Chairman of Committees not go to school because there is no adequate sanitation there, are disempowered and debarred from access to That, pursuant to Private Business Standing that crucial education. Order 69, Mrs K S Lawrence be appointed an Examiner of Petitions for Private Bills in place of Mr T V Mohan. Lord De Mauley: My Lords, that is a very important point. One of the key principles of the Government’s Motion agreed. response to the global crisis of water and sanitation is to increase our focus on women and girls. Women are more likely to fetch water and are at risk without proper sanitation facilities. By improving access to Joint Committee on Human Rights water and sanitation, we will get more girls and women Membership Motion into school and keep them there. 11.36 am Lord McColl of Dulwich: Does the Minister agree Moved By The Chairman of Committees that one of the problems in Africa, where I work, is that when people dig a well they often stop the moment That Baroness O’Loan be appointed a member they reach water? The essential thing is to go on of the Joint Committee in place of Baroness Campbell several feet deeper. The well will then survive. It is very of Surbiton, resigned. important to train people to keep the well in good working order. Motion agreed, and a message was sent to the Commons. 1421 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1422

Youth Unemployment young people. The present Government, after first scrapping the previous Government’s future jobs fund, Motion to Take Note have now recognised the need to do more; hence, the 11.36 am new youth contract offering 160,000 wage subsidies of just over £2,000 each for new private and voluntary Moved By Lord Adonis sector jobs given to long-term unemployed people That this House takes note of the level of youth over this year and the next two years. unemployment and its social consequences. The youth contract represents 53,000 work opportunities over the coming year, which, in the face Lord Adonis: My Lords, in opening this debate on of 167,000 young people who have been unemployed youth unemployment, I cannot help observing that we claimants for more than six months, is not that many, have two and a half hours to debate one of the most even if they are all created. However, 53,000 would be critical issues facing the country, which is one-10th of a start, so I would be grateful if the Minister would tell the 25 hours that the House has spent debating House us precisely how many young people have so far this of Lords reform in the past two months alone. Perhaps year been recruited by employers from the Work our priorities are not in quite the right order, or in the Programme and what is the Government’s projection right proportion. for the rest of 2012? I doubt that many Members of the House deny the Will the Minister also tell us what progress has been urgency of getting young people into jobs. A lost made in creating the 100,000 work experience places generation is in the making, which could scar Britain also promised for this year in the youth contract? I for decades to come. On this, I agree with the Deputy strongly support work experience placements, provided Prime Minister, who described youth unemployment the young people are treated properly, but they are of as, short duration—as little as two or three weeks each—and “a ticking time-bomb for the economy and our society”. are not, of course, a substitute for real jobs paying real I also agree with what he said needed to be done, wages. which is to get every unemployed young person earning or learning again before long-term damage occurs. My party believes that we need to go further than The question for this debate is how far actions match the youth contract; hence our proposed real jobs guarantee words. for the under 25 year-olds who are long-term unemployed. For those who are out of work for more than a year, However you look at it, the situation is dire. There there would be six months paid employment with the are 954,000 people under the age of 24 who are not in state providing a wage subsidy for 25 hours of work employment, education or training. Most concerning and the employer covering the cost of 10 hours of of all, 167,000 of those aged under 24 have been training a week. I look forward to hearing from the unemployed claimants for more than six months, a Minister whether, if the youth contract does not rapidly number that has more than doubled since last April, reduce the number of the long-term young unemployed, while 61,000 have been claiming for more than the Government will consider adopting the real jobs 12 months—a number that has more than trebled in guarantee and the bankers’ bonus tax which makes it the past year. Young people have fared far worse than possible. I urge the Prime Minister and the Chancellor older people in the severe downturn. We can debate to do so sooner rather than later if their concern about why this is the case but for the young people affected the young unemployed is more than crocodile tears. this is not an academic debate, it is a personal catastrophe—an immediate source not only of low The second priority is to prepare people better for income but of low self-confidence, poor health, damaged work. Schools and further education colleges have a relationships and often extreme social marginalisation, big job to do in this respect. Even with the rise in all of which only further harms their job prospects school standards over recent years, four in 10 16 and adds to the cost of putting it all right. I doubt that year-olds are still not getting five good GCSEs including your Lordships will dispute any of this. The question English and maths, which is all important in terms of is what we do about it. their employability. Professor Alison Wolf’s recent Of the analysis that I have read in recent months, I report on vocational education contains a startling have been most impressed by the report of the fact. Of the four in 10 16 year-olds who do not get five Commission on Youth Unemployment, sponsored by good GCSEs including English and maths, only 4%—I ACEVO—the Association of Chief Executives of repeat, 4%—attain GCSE level English and maths in Voluntary Organisations. It highlights three priorities. any vocational education and training that they do First, young people need more job opportunities to be afterwards. As Professor Wolf rightly says, English available here and now. Secondly, young people need and maths should be the essential building blocks in better preparation and motivation for work. There whatever courses are taken by post-16 year-olds without needs to be a new vision for what ACEVO calls, basic skills. Urgent reform is needed here. “the ‘forgotten half’ of young people who are not destined for Better still of course would be for teenagers to get university or a high-quality apprenticeship post-16”. English, maths and a good general education while Thirdly, unemployed young people need the support they are still at school. School standards are still not of a far more active welfare state to help them to get nearly high enough, particularly in the many hundreds into work and to stay there. of comprehensive schools where a majority of teenagers Let me take these three priorities in turn. First, on are still not leaving with essential GCSEs. That is the more jobs, almost everyone accepts that stronger incentives reason why the previous Government concentrated are needed for employers to recruit more unemployed the academy programme on the lowest performing 1423 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1424 schools—to give them a “big bazooka”, in the words We also need more and better work experience for of the Prime Minister. I urge the Government to focus teenagers while at school, and systematic mentoring of new academies and free schools in disadvantaged areas young people by young people themselves, including and to do more to support the recruitment of highly those in work mentoring those out of work or on their motivated teachers into such areas by, for example, way into it. expanding more rapidly than planned the excellent Thirdly, on the welfare system itself, the Minister is Teach First programme. a respected champion of an active welfare system, one The education system also needs to promote technical far more focused on helping people into work and disciplines far better. That is why I strongly support mobilising organisations which are good at promoting the university technical colleges proposed by the noble this to do so instead of relying just on a state bureaucracy. Lord, Lord Baker. They are academies for 14 to Is he satisfied that the current system is remotely 19 year-olds, each with a technical specialism—ranging active enough in helping young people into work and from engineering and construction to the digital media— training, particularly those who are clearly in danger and each sponsored and managed jointly by companies of long-term unemployment, or only casual employment, and universities. because they have few qualifications and virtually no Then there are apprenticeships. Everyone now talks work experience? The Minister’s flagship reform is the the language of apprenticeships, which is a welcome work programme, providing intensive and tailored change, and the Government cite very large numbers support for the long-term unemployed. I shall read for new apprenticeship starts. However, if you scratch out the description I have been given of young people’s the surface you find that most new apprentices turn eligibility to be included in the Work Programme. It out to be in their late twenties and all too many of says that, them existing employees renamed apprentices because “some will be referred on a mandatory basis after 9 months of of the Government’s rebadging of the Train to Gain claiming JSA … some will be referred on a mandatory basis after employee training scheme as an apprenticeship scheme. 3 months of claiming JSA (if they are 18 and were NEET for 6 months prior to starting to claim JSA, or if they claimed JSA for Large numbers also turn out to be on short-term 22 of the past 24 months … some can be referred at the discretion training courses of less than six months’ duration. of Jobcentre Plus after 3 months of claiming if they fall into There is a real danger that apprenticeships are particular categories (e.g. if they are care-leavers, or homeless) … being dumbed down as fast as they are being created. some will be referred immediately after their Work Capability Assessment to determine whether or not they should be on ESA How many 16 to 21 year-olds were last year in as opposed to JSA”. apprenticeships lasting more than a year that had both an employment and college-based component, and So that is all clear then. More to the point, I doubt how many employers offered such apprenticeships in that it is at all clear to the young people who need this that year? Is the Minister’s own department giving a support, many of whom need it a good deal sooner lead and offering apprenticeships? Does he by chance than nine months after going on the dole, or after they have an apprentice in his own office? When I was have notched up 22 out of 24 months on the dole. I Minister, I did not—and, looking back, I should have know that as part of the youth contract more support done. within Jobcentre Plus is being provided to the under-24s, but I would welcome the Minister’s views as to how This is not just tokenism. Unless central and local intensive support can be given to young people who government give a strong lead, they cannot complain are clearly in danger of prolonged unemployment if the private sector does not follow. Public procurement before they have been unemployed for the best part of has an important part to play here. For example, Kent a year. County Council makes the creation of apprentices a procurement condition for contracts worth more than These are all vital issues and I look forward to what £1 million, with at least one apprenticeship required other noble Lords have to say. I end on a personal per £1 million spent on labour. The first such contract note. When I was 18, in 1981, I went to sign on in my was recently awarded to a company delivering highways local unemployment benefit office, which was the former maintenance which, as a result, will take on apprentices Camden Town workhouse. I had a few months to go to cover at least 3% of its jobs. The company, fittingly, before university and in those days students on holiday is called Enterprise. We need to seek far more enterprising were allowed to sign on. However, as I was filling in companies of that type across England. my form, the manager spotted me, came over, and said to me, “Oi, you look as if you can read and write. How Unless good-quality apprenticeships for the under-21s, about a summer job working here?”. Within 10 minutes leading to good-quality jobs, become far more numerous, I was on the other side of the counter. I was given we will never have secure pathways to employment for precisely 10 minutes training and 20 minutes later I teenagers who are not on track to go to university. As was taking fresh claims. I spent that summer and all the ACEVO report says: my university holidays thereafter working as a counter “If the route to university is a well-signposted motorway, the clerk in the Camden Town unemployment benefit route into work for these 16-to-18-year-olds is more like an office. This was a life course in bureaucracy and all its unmarked field of landmines”. glories, but, more to the point, it was a life course in In this respect, I am attracted by ACEVO’s suggestion unemployment and all its evils. This was 1981, when that we set up an equivalent of UCAS for apprenticeships, unemployment went over 3 million. We had them with employers, national and local, large and small, queuing round the block to sign on, often taking six or advertising their apprenticeships through a single web- seven hours simply to get through the queue—young based system. The aim would be for this to become as and old, many of them were in tears as they told their near as possible a universal listing service. stories. Virtually nothing was being done to help them. 1425 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1426

[LORD ADONIS] It also observes that from January to March this year I hoped then that that situation would never happen the rate was 1.7% lower than the previous year. That is again, but it is happening again; it is happening now. an important point. Although 1.02 million young We all have a duty to see that the resources of the state people being unemployed is a tragedy, we must remember are mobilised to the full to bring it to an end as soon as that before the last election the figure was 923,000 and possible. on a rising track. Thankfully, that figure is now beginning to come down just a little, although of course not fast 11.51 am enough. Lord Bates: My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the I want to devote my contribution to what is happening noble Lord. I congratulate him on securing this very in the north-east of England. I think that there is important and timely debate. His moving story of how something else missing from the debate here. It is more he secured his first employment reminded me of the than a scheme or a government grant; it is telling vital importance of human intervention. We often young people that there are opportunities out there if deal in schemes, numbers and bureaucracy and forget they search for them and are willing to push for them. that these are real people who can be excited and Before the last election, the north-east suffered a series motivated. of blows to employment, with the job losses at Nissan and the shelving of the Hitachi trains order. I know My interest in the unemployed is exercised in a that the noble Lord, as Secretary of State, argued practical sense through my role as a patron of Tomorrow’s vigorously with his friends at the Treasury over that People in the north-east of England, which works order, but it was shelved. That was followed by the with hard-to- reach young unemployed people and closure of the Corus steel plant. However, over the past tries to inspire them to get into work. There is no couple of years, we have seen the reopening of the doubt that it can make a profound difference to young plant; we have seen Nissan recruit 2,000 people directly people to interact with people who believe in them— or through the supply chain, and we have seen the perhaps they are the first people to do so—tell them £4.5usb billion Hitachi trains order go ahead, and that that they can achieve things and that they are a will create 1,000 jobs in Newton Aycliffe. In recent solution rather than a problem. Work is going on as weeks, we have seen Offshore Group Newcastle announce we speak in that body’s Working It Out programme, 1,000 new jobs building foundations for wind farms. which is taking hard-to-reach young unemployed people Moreover, over the past year the number of jobs in the in the north-east of England, who often come from accommodation and food services sector in the north-east households who have been unemployed for generations, has increased by 9,000, up by 12.8%; jobs in science and is getting 75% of them into employment or training. and technology in the north-east have increased by Given that those people often have no qualifications, I 8,000, or 13.6%; and the number of jobs in the arts find that inspiring, as is the transformational effect on and entertainment have increased by 22.4%. their self-confidence of starting employment or training, which the noble Lord also spoke of. I make those points not in any way to diminish the I also completely agree with the noble Lord’s analysis fact that there is a very serious problem but to stress of the vital importance of education in this area and that if we drum into young people that there are no applaud the work that he did when he was an education opportunities, the situation is absolutely dire and there Minister to promote the academies programme. I know is no hope, we should not be surprised to find that that he will find it every bit as frustrating as do current is the world view they take, asking themselves, “What Ministers that often areas where there is greatest need is the point of applying?”. There are things happening. are the last to get the quality of education that they Government have a role in this. It is not just about require. It is all well and good saying, “Wouldn’t it be what the private sector is doing; the Government have great if more free schools and academies went to the a role and a social responsibility, and that is referred to areas where they are most needed?”, but, having tried in the title of this debate. I would argue that they are to set up an academy and a free school in an area exercising that role in a number of ways. As the where they are most needed in the north-east of England, ACEVO report mentioned, what we need more than I found that they were fought tooth and nail every inch anything else is job opportunities—we need businesses of the way by dog-in-the-manger local education to create more jobs. Therefore, it is very important authorities and trade unions, which blocked their paths. that we see things such as corporation tax being reduced I find it deeply frustrating to see people wring their from 26% to 24% and then to 22%, and the freezing of hands while talking about the young unemployed but business rates, and it is important that new start-up then deny them the education which could provide companies will not have to pay national insurance them with a pathway into employment. contributions for the first year when taking young I also very much respect the way that the debate people out of unemployment. These things make a was introduced because it recognised that youth difference. We have seen £1 billion going into the unemployment has been a long-term trend, as was set Youth Contract. In addition, the regional growth fund out in the helpful briefing pack that we received for has invested £157 million in the north-east of England, this debate from the House of Lords Library. Youth with 33% of the projects that the fund has committed unemployment was not invented in May 2010; it has to being in the north-east. Get Britain Building was a been rising steadily. As Demos says: programme announced in the Budget, with £28 million “Before the financial crisis hit, youth unemployment had invested in the north-east, delivering 750 homes and already been on the rise. In fact, UK youth unemployment has supporting more than 1,500 jobs in the construction risen … as a share of total unemployment for the past 20 years”. industry. 1427 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1428

The north-east is home to two of the enterprise most universities, yet many students take a vocational zones. Of course, there is also the element of making course alongside their degree, such is their value in work opportunities—particularly low-paid work getting a job. opportunities—attractive to young people. Raising the At secondary level, technical kosen schools which tax thresholds, which has taken 84,000 north-east take students to higher education on a vocational path people out of paying tax altogether, is making those are massively oversubscribed. Both kosen and senmon positions more competitive and giving people a better gakko graduates have outstanding employment rates. wage than was the case before those thresholds were In contrast, we in Britain fail too many young people raised. We have seen the number of apprenticeships in not on track to “traditional”higher education. Employers the north-east rise by 87% in the previous year—up report low basic skills and young people are too often from 18,510 to 34,550. There is absolutely no doubt left with qualifications of little value. I know that the that more can be done, but my argument is that a lot is company Jaguar Land Rover with which I am very being done and the picture is not as dark as it is closely involved cannot get youngsters to go there. sometimes painted in the media. There are opportunities We have discussed this for 30 years and more, yet out there and we ought to encourage people to realise far too little has changed. As in Japan, we need better their dreams and use the full talents that they have technical education at both secondary and post-16 been given. levels. Of course, schools must first give all pupils the essential foundations of technical education, literacy, Lord De Mauley: My Lords, I draw noble Lords’ numeracy and science. We should also encourage attention to the fact that Back-Bench contributions innovation in technical education in university technical are time-limited to 7 minutes. colleges, which my noble friend Lord Adonis talked about. I am delighted that we will have a university 12.01 pm technical college in Warwick, but Britain needs more like it; we should have hundreds of them. Lord Bhattacharyya: My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Adonis for securing this debate. As a Next, we must transform vocational education after former apprentice school governor, I declare my interest 16. There is huge demand for skills that are worth as chairman of Warwick Manufacturing Group and something in the jobs market. Young people apply for of being involved in industry all my adult life. This quality apprenticeships in huge numbers, but we have subject is very close to my heart. far too many useless skills providers. An easy way to make money is to set up as a training company, latch My noble friend has set out the scale of the crisis. on to a funding body and provide some low-level To take just one example, last year saw a 15% increase vocational “qualification”. Sadly, we saw examples of in long-term youth unemployment. It would be easy this during the jubilee. To stop this, the Wolf report and largely justified to blame the Government for that proposal of letting funding follow students rather increase, yet youth unemployment is not only a matter than courses will reduce incentives to offer confetti of fiscal policy and Work Programme funding. Young qualifications. people in Britain are particularly exposed because of the structure of the British economy. We know this Finally, we must introduce the values of the Japanese because youth unemployment was rising well before senmon gakko into all our higher and further education the financial tsunami. colleges. We need more flexibility, more modularity and more integration between courses and the jobs Britain’s youth unemployment rate increased by a market. Some may protest at the factory floor arriving quarter in the three years to 2007, while the economy in the groves of academe. However, a law degree from grew, so for long-term solutions we should perhaps Cambridge is also part of a well rounded vocational look to countries that have low youth unemployment education. For apprentices as well as lawyers, vocational in good times and bad. Where do they focus? They education must be a path to the top, not a dead end. focus on preparing young people for work. That is where we fail. We abolished our vocational technical Young people are ambitious. We must be with them colleges with the best of intentions. As technical colleges and create a route from apprentice to doctorate. I am a became universities, many lost their focus on employability graduate. I did my apprenticeship and then a doctorate, for all. Vocational sub-degree courses went and work which was paid for by the company that I worked for. placements vanished. That was the wrong path to Sadly, we see too many examples of where the take. Government have failed in this area. There have been many courses. I blame industry, too. It whinges left, We should look instead at fast-growing Brazil, where right and centre that we do not have enough skills, but the number of students at technical colleges has it should pay for them. In my case, industry paid. In all quadrupled in 10 years, with one in four students other countries, it pays. Of course, the Government doing a degree. Today, the Brazilian Government are must help. building 150 more technical colleges. In Germany, the dual system of vocational education means companies 12.06 pm pay to train the young, so they can hire the best workers after they get their Berufsabschluss. For Britain, Lord Roberts of Llandudno: My Lords, I, too, appreciate the best example is perhaps Japan where youth being able to take part in this debate, initiated by the unemployment has stayed incredibly low, even in the noble Lord, Lord Adonis. What has struck me already “lost decade”. Japanese technical colleges—the senmon is that we are all thinking in the same way. We are gakko—educate a fifth of all school leavers in vocational dreaming the same dreams and talking of young people courses. Tuition at senmon gakko costs more than in not as statistics but as people with a personality, 1429 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1430

[LORD ROBERTS OF LLANDUDNO] guidance they had received in their schools, I was talents and skills that they can contribute to society. astonished to see that there was a thumbs down in We are thinking about a generation of young people nearly every instance. Careers guidance needs to be throughout the world who are without jobs and without tightened. I know that there is legislation proposing to a purpose in life. This can be a catastrophe not only do that, but I would also like to ask the Minister how for them but for society. I know from studying statistics well we are doing in improving careers guidance so on the Welsh valleys that with a high level of that youngsters are treated as people and not as statistics. unemployment your level of health goes down, your When they go to Jobcentre Plus they should not be dreams for young people change, and your whole faced by some kind of mechanism or by the internet attitude to society changes. We need to tackle this in a but by a person who takes an interest in them. Careers serious, cross-party way. I am glad that there has been guidance should be there for them not only for their no tribal discussion this morning. first job but for the years to come. It should be a The growth in youth unemployment between 2007 lifelong experience of learning and talking over their and 2012 was mentioned. It has occurred not only in problems, because people change and develop various the UK. In Denmark it is up from 7.1% to 15.1%; in skills and aptitudes as life goes on. the United States from 11.7% to 16.4%; in Poland I have mentioned in this Chamber before that we from 18.5% to 26.7%; and in Spain from 19% to 51%. need to have a Minister dedicated to tackling youth The problem is worldwide. In the UK it rose from unemployment. Many strands need to be gathered 13.6% to 21.9%. We can see that the growth began together: the Department for Work and Pensions as before any talk of recession. regards retirement, the Department for Business, We can also see that unemployment is spread unevenly Innovation and Skills, the Department for Education across the United Kingdom. The north-east has twice and the devolved Administrations. We need to introduce as many people out of work as the south-west. a co-ordinated approach where everyone, perhaps under Birmingham has many areas where more than 20% of one Minister, can talk together and say, “Yes, we can the population are out of work. In one constituency in bring those strands together more effectively than we Scotland, which happens to be held by the Liberal do at present”. Democrats, only 1.2% of people are unemployed. I urge the Minister to agree that we should go for There are dramatic differences. In Merthyr Tydfil and one Minister and establish action areas to tackle youth the Rhondda valleys, unemployment always touches unemployment. We should consider easing in at the 20%. It is unevenly distributed. younger end and easing out at the older end. We Areas that have already suffered from should also ensure that personal skills and careers unemployment—I think of the Welsh valleys in the advice is given to youngsters so that they can look 1930s, where unemployment sometimes reached 40% or forward to a career that makes the best use of their 50%—are again those that have been most affected. I talents and therefore contributes to the well-being of suggest that one thing we could do is target areas in every one of us. greatest need and make them areas of action on youth unemployment. We should target many resources to 12.13 pm those areas. The Lord Bishop of Chester: My Lords, I gladly Noble Lords have already mentioned the way in support what has been said in the debate so far. I which structural unemployment in the UK has grown. particularly pay tribute to the brilliant way in which In 2006 it was 13.6%, in 2010 it was 19.6% and today it the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, introduced the debate. is nearly 23%. This is a structural matter. I welcome The noble Lord, Lord Roberts, is a Methodist minister the Government’s initiatives, but in a way they are like and I hope that he will not find anything tribal in my Elastoplast; they are not launching a big operation to contribution from these Benches. Indeed, at one point treat a major need. Whichever Government take over he might even find me singing the same hymn to the at the next election, they will face the same problem of same tune, which will be wonderful. structural unemployment. Now is the time for us to I wish to approach the issue in not quite the same forget party differences and for all of us to work way as other noble Lords have so far but simply from together on this; otherwise we will be faced with a its moral dimension. I shall try to tease out how to dilemma that could lead to serious consequences. approach it in that way. Nurturing the next generation I think that I welcome the increase in the retirement is arguably the most important task and challenge age to 67 from 65. It does not affect me any longer, but facing any society. Of course, this does not apply only it will create less opportunity for the younger age to humankind but is true throughout the created group to find work. Can we not have legislation that world. In the animal kingdom it is rather hard-wired. eases people out of work? When I was 65, I thought One has to think only of the way in which a mother that I still had a few good years to go. Could we not bird or a lioness will defend its young, or the incredible reduce older people’s working hours to ease them out feats that birds undertake to migrate to their proper of employment while, at the other end, allowing youngsters breeding grounds. As I say, it is hard-wired into the to be tapered into it? Those who have many years rest of the animal kingdom. experience in their job could mentor the young people One of the problems of being human is that we entering that job market. have an ability to override our hard-wiring in a way About a month ago I was with the Deputy Prime that is not open to those who do not have the precious Minister in Llandudno at a meeting with apprentices. commodity of human freedom. Let me put this in When we asked the apprentices what kind of careers terms which may resonate here and there in the Chamber. 1431 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1432

We have been placed in the garden of paradise, but we communities in this country where young people in a have eaten of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of particular ethnic group or community are found work, good and evil. I could be tempted to add, “and there is because that is what the community does through the no helping us”, but I shall leave that thought on the tip ethos of the extended family. We seem to have lost of my tongue. Let me put it in different terms. Human that, so how do we gather it back as a society nationally? life, uniquely in the created world, for all its glory and We are facing a very difficult issue. beauty, is prone to a certain dislocation that is unique My second and concluding moral question concerns to human society. Nature red in tooth and claw is what I call international equity—equity between complicated for us by the moral possibilities, or indeed nations—and I refer here to the free movement of immoral possibilities, that human beings have uniquely labour within the European Union. Again, I am entirely to confront. That can produce the Mother Teresa, the in favour of it in principle, but because of the role of Gandhi and the Mandela, or it can produce the Hitler, English in the international world now, there will tend the Stalin and the Pol Pot in equal measure. I say this to be more people wanting to exercise the right to because I believe that the phenomenon of youth work in England than in some other countries. That is unemployment presents at its heart a moral challenge. simply the way the world is. What happens, then, if Of course it has social and economic aspects on which there is serious competition for jobs with our own we will probably concentrate in the debate, but unless young people raised in this country? What research is it is regarded first and foremost as a moral challenge, I being undertaken to look at this problem, to see suspect that what we come up with will tend to be whether it is a problem and, if so, how to address it? superficial, sticking-plaster solutions. We cannot simply carry on thinking that it is too I shall address two of the moral dimensions which difficult an issue to confront. are quite tricky to get right, and I should like to hear I will end where the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, the Minister’s response to these two issues at the end ended, with vacation jobs. One of the tragedies today of the debate. The first is what I would call is that there are so few of those sorts of jobs available intergenerational equity, a point just touched on by to students and other people just to get some experience the noble Lord, Lord Roberts. Let us not underestimate of work. In my generation, we all learned so much the great change that has happened. The younger from that sort of work, getting our foot on the ladder. generation of today is facing a much more difficult In my case, it was being a dustman. It was the easiest time than my generation did. This is a reversal after thing to do: work for six weeks emptying the bins and several generations where the younger generation had then with the money I would go and have a holiday. I it easier than the preceding one. We have now gone spent six months of my life being a dustman. It taught backwards. When I left university 43 years ago— me a great deal—and language I do not use much incidentally, at the same time and place as the Minister— these days. No doubt the Minister will have his own the thought did not occur to me that there would not story to tell. be a job when I graduated. It simply was not on our radar. How times have changed since then. The thought that, in my 20s, I might have to go back to my parental 12.21 pm home because there was nowhere else to live would Lord Wood of Anfield: My Lords, the current downturn hardly have occurred to me then. Given the reversal has now lasted longer than not only the recession and we face today, life is tough for the younger generation slow recovery of the early Thatcher years but the great in a unique way. depression of the 1930s. In both these previous cases, My question is this: does the older generation, my GDP—national growth—had returned to its pre-recession generation, feel a responsibility towards the younger level by the 50th month, just over four years after the generation to do whatever needs to be done to address onset of the decline. However, today, in June 2012, and alleviate the deep social evil of large-scale youth UK GDP is still more than 4% below the level at the unemployment? I return to the issue of the retirement beginning of 2008. As well as the short-term impact age. I understand entirely the reasons for abolishing on living standards and jobs, this depression, which is compulsory retirement ages, but as we have heard, what I think it is, will create numerous problems, as we there is a certain conflict between doing that and all know, for public finances, living standards, skills having a society with large-scale youth unemployment. and business prospects. But surely primary among the Ideally, of course, there would be no conflict, but concerns that we all have for the legacy impact of this rights often have to be balanced. Indeed, the term depression is the effect on youth unemployment. “right” has an absolute sound to it and we do not There is a traditional pattern to the debate about think that it must be qualified and balanced against unemployment. Those who prioritise economic efficiency other rights. If we were in a period of good and steady tend to caricature those with a concern about the economic growth, perhaps I would not be too anxious human cost and the social consequences of unemployment on this point, but if we are in a period of endemic low as utopian bleeding hearts who do not have the growth, my fear is that the rights we give to older interests of a strong, dynamic economy to the fore. people to work as long as they like comes into conflict Meanwhile, those concerned with the unemployed with the proper needs of the younger generation. and their life chances tend to caricature their opponents How, as a society, do we address this? as heartless Dickensians putting the interests of business Other societies deal with this in their own ways. In above the interests of working people and their other parts of the Anglican communion, young people families. If there is a choice between caricatures, are simply found work within the extended family—the noble Lords will not be surprised to hear that my village community—so it is managed. I know of own sympathies tend to the latter, but both views 1433 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1434

[LORD WOOD OF ANFIELD] What are the economic effects of this? One consequence strangely converge on a separation between the economic of prolonged high levels of unemployment is an increase dimension of unemployment and the social and personal in the rate of structural unemployment in an economy. dimension. We know that shocks that increase unemployment I do not believe that this separation makes sense affect the structural rate of unemployment more the because the evidence strongly confirms that prolonged longer they persist. periods of unemployment not only have severe and Secondly, far from promoting more efficient labour long-term consequences for the individuals affected markets, workers with a history of unemployment—in but are very bad for our economy as well. Labour young people’s case, with little or no history of mobility, including occasional transitional phases of employment—are often offered less secure jobs because unemployment, is of course a necessary lubricant to they lose valuable work experience or skills while they structural change in a dynamic economy, but seeing are unemployed, or because their unemployment large-scale and sustained unemployment, particularly experience is seen by employers as a signal that they among young people, as a necessary price for the are not good enough or are low-productivity workers. rebalancing of the economy, raising productivity, Youth unemployment takes people off the ladder of containing inflation or incentivising greater effort is skill and career progression, or away from means that just plain wrong. It is an economic mistake, it is not they can never get on to it. supported by evidence, and it is not just prompted by a Thirdly, economic evidence suggests that unemployed lack of compassion. workers may lower the wages that they think they can Other people in this debate have talked, and I am get as time passes and accept poorer-quality jobs that sure will talk, about the considerable human and are more likely to be eliminated, and so are more likely social cost of youth unemployment. For example, to experience further unemployment. Repeat spells of there is now overwhelming evidence that prolonged unemployment go hand in hand with jobs that are low spells of worklessness are linked to significant increases paid and unstable. in rates of suicide, cancer and divorce. There is also a Fourthly, we know that entry into the working transmission effect across generations; we know that population at the start of a recession is more than just unemployment among adults has been shown to have bad luck; the longer you spend unemployed or an effect in reducing the earnings of their children economically inactive in your youth, the greater the when they enter the workforce later. These considerations prospect of longer periods of unemployment later in alone should give us cause to prioritise youth life. On average, each one of the quarter of a million unemployment more than I fear is being done at the or so young people who have currently been unemployed moment, whether in good or bad economic times, but for more than a year will spend around a further year I would like to spend three or four minutes looking at in unemployment and a further year in economic the economic effects of unemployment, which are inactivity in the near future. often cited, wrongly I think, in mitigation against the social and personal effects. Lastly, we also know that a wage effect casts a shadow into young people’s futures. As well as reducing From a macroeconomic point of view, the current employment prospects, youth unemployment means economic crisis is a curiosity on the unemployment lower future wages than you would otherwise expect. front because the labour market performed relatively Research suggests that someone who has had a spell of well during the initial contraction in 2008-09. In that unemployment of more than a year in their early years period, the recession inflicted a fall in GDP of about of work will have average pay at the age of 42 that is 6%, which was far worse than that in the recessions of more than £7,000 less than that of someone who has the 1980s and 1990s, with a full six quarters of falling not suffered unemployment. output. However, whereas in the previous two recessions the fall in employment was broadly in line with the fall These considerations destroy the idea that what in GDP, in this recession, the fall in employment has may be painful for individuals is beneficial for our been much less, at around 2%. society or economy, that the short-term transition impact of unemployment may somehow be a necessary The worrying side of unemployment is this: although adjustment for long-term efficiency, and that what is the rise in unemployment has been less than might suboptimal from a social point of view is optimal have been expected initially, large-scale unemployment from an economic point of view. It is depressing to has persisted far longer than previous recessions would hear people argue that youth unemployment is down lead you to expect. In the 1990s, Britain came out of to young people’s reluctance to take jobs. That is a recession at the end of 1991 and unemployment started misunderstanding of the economics of the moment. I to fall six quarters later. However, in this downturn we find it more depressing still to hear the argument that, came out of recession in autumn 2009, but nine quarters when it comes to unemployment, there is a choice later unemployment had continued to rise, to 8.4%. between what is in our collective economic interest This was even before Britain entered a double-dip and what is in the interests of the more vulnerable in recession. our labour market. Unemployment is not medicine; it Unemployment has risen among all age groups, is a sign that something is going wrong. especially in the past 18 months. This is the result not just of economic stagnation but of policy change. The 12.28 pm youth labour market has performed particularly badly in the most recent downturn, rising from 14% to 20%, Baroness Sherlock: My Lords, I commend the noble then stabilising in the middle of last year, before Lord, Lord Adonis, on an incredibly impressive start deteriorating further and rising to 22%. to the debate. In case there is a noble Lord present 1435 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1436 whom I have not bored on the subject, I should programmes for the long-term unemployed. More than declare that I serve as a member of the small, cross-party 90% who get a job are still in work after six months, Riots Communities and Victims Panel, which published compared with just 40% in other programmes, and its final report in March 2012. We are still awaiting the their longer-term earnings tend to be higher. An evaluation promised government response, which will be any day of ILMs in Australia found that the benefits consistently now, I am sure. outweighed the programme costs. In touring riot-hit spots around the country, we My second point is the regional dimension touched asked people why they thought the riots happened. on by the noble Lords, Lord Roberts and Lord Bates. Lack of opportunities for young people came up The touching optimism and commendable positivity everywhere we went. I do not for a moment posit any of the noble Lord, Lord Bates, notwithstanding, my simplistic causal link between youth unemployment experience in my home town of Durham is that there and rioting, but the issue was raised so often that we is considerable unemployment among young people felt as a panel that we had to look into youth and considerable fear about the future. There is a unemployment alongside other issues, so we looked at growing challenge: as young people still in school look the various steps that are being taken and the schemes at their older brothers and sisters leaving school and that are being used to help young people into work, not getting jobs, it becomes even harder to persuade and made a series of recommendations. them to stay on and work through to their full potential. With regard to the Government’s Work Programme, Has the Minister seen the latest edition of the the panel questioned whether the payment structure Northern Economic Summary from IPPR North, which built in enough incentive to those providing it to work showed that the number of NEETs is highest in the with the most difficult cases. We were concerned that, north of England, at 19%, compared with just 16% in for example, if someone was an entrenched NEET, to England on average. Furthermore, the amount of time use that term, and the provider had not managed to people are spending on JSA is increasing. Almost half get them into work after a significant period, there those claiming JSA in the north have been doing so for was not much incentive to carry on working with or more than six months, with the average length of time investing resources in them. That suggested that targeted for which people are claiming benefits more than intervention was needed. The panel recommended double what it was during the 2008-09 recession. That that there should be a joint central and local government goes to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord intervention after someone was unemployed for a year Wood, about the risks of the depth of unemployment and that any claimant still unemployed after two years this time around and the consequences for the economy on the Work Programme should be offered a guaranteed as well as the individual. job and additional support. There was a clear feeling IPPR North suggested that unless targeted measures that people should not be parked on the Work Programme are introduced to help young people urgently, the gap and not moved on. My view is that we should intervene between the north and other regions in the number of far earlier than that, but that was the shared view. NEETs is likely to carry on growing. Interestingly, its There are various ways to guarantee someone a job. solution was not dissimilar to that reached by the riots The most common ones that we hear about are wage panel. It concluded that the Government should offer subsidies or incentives for employers, but I also want a guaranteed job paid at the minimum wage or above to highlight the use of intermediate labour markets. to anyone who has been unemployed and claiming During my time as an adviser in the Treasury, I spent JSA for more than 12 consecutive months. It proposed many happy hours discussing the cost/benefits of that the guarantee should be matched by an obligation intermediate labour markets with officials, and I suspect to take up the job or to find alternative that does not that the Minister may have had similar experiences. I involve claiming JSA. It suggested introducing that on have always been rather a fan of ILMs, but as I am a targeted basis: for example, for people living in areas sure the Treasury has pointed out to the Minister, they where the job density ratio is twice the national average. are expensive and times are tough. Many noble Lords have commented that there is However, if we look at both sides of the account potential cross-party agreement in this area. Certainly book, as my noble friend Lord Wood showed us so we can agree on one thing about youth eloquently we begin to see the extent of the economic unemployment—we are all against it, but we would problem caused by having so many young people not like a step beyond that from the Minister. I want to in education, training or employment. For example, it hear a sense of urgency in tackling the problem. There is estimated that the cohort of 2008 NEETs will cost is always the risk that we feel that unemployment is the UK economy £22 billion and the taxpayer £13 billion always there, but the noble Lord, Lord Wood, made over their lifetimes. In three local authority areas the case that it has not always been here on this scale. alone, the estimated direct cost to support just 1,989 If we go back to the situation of the 1980s, as described NEETs for one year is £14.8 million: almost £7,500 by the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, the country as a each. The extra costs to the public purse—for example, whole will suffer considerably. through benefit claims, crime or mental health-related The economic case for action has been made. I also issues—were estimated at another £40 million. agree with the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of In other words, the costs of inaction are extremely Chester that there is a moral case. For me, it is simple; high. ILMs have been shown to work well. Research the core job of government is to so order society as to from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that, enable its citizens to flourish. I spend too much time properly managed, ILM programmes can deliver more going around the country meeting young people who, sustained progression from welfare to work than other by the age of 19 or 20, already feel that they have no 1437 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1438

[BARONESS SHERLOCK] During that time, I had a long talk with Paddy choice, that their life course is set and that they will about unemployment in the area, because I was concerned never achieve the kind of things that other people that there was nothing for people other than that. He took for granted. It is up to us today, and I want the explained to me that one reason why the IRA burned Minister to take a lead. What steps will the Government the DeLorean training centre was because it did not take to ensure that those young people have hope and want people to be employed. He said that a man wants that we as a country can live with the consequences of to earn enough money to feed, clothe and house his our policies? family, to have a holiday and, occasionally, to change the wallpaper. If society produces that, he will support it. If society does not, he will not. If there was therefore 12.35 pm a possibility of that happening and driving people Lord Ramsbotham: My Lords, I, too, congratulate away from the IRA, it wished to bring them back in. the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, on obtaining this important At the same time, Paddy asked me if I knew how many debate and for the way in which he introduced it, unemployed there were in that part of west Belfast. I which reflects entirely the motivation and determination said that I did not but that I would try to find out, so he showed when he was a Minister in the education for July 1979 we counted all the men of employable department. age and what they did during that time. We found that While echoing many of the things that have been the unemployment rate was about 80%. I mentioned said around the House, I want to think outside the this to Paddy and he said, “I would not have been box. I do so because what has been said recently, surprised if it was 90%”. particularly in connection with the riots, has stimulated To echo very much what the noble Lord, Lord three questions which have been in my mind for a long Roberts, said, it is therefore terribly important that time. They are unconnected, but one was particularly instead of taking figures which represent an average stimulated by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of over a whole area, we should identify hotspots. This Birmingham in our recent debate on the report on the brings me to there having been some figures in the riots. I have long believed that the only raw material report on the riots which struck me as being very that every nation has in common is its people, and woe important. They were perceptions: the 83% who felt betide it if it does not do everything it can to identify, that youth unemployment was a problem in their area nurture and develop the talents of all its people, and the 71% who felt that there were insufficient because unless it does so, it has only itself to blame if opportunities for young people. Only 22% felt that it fails. That is a burden on all of us, not just our public services were doing enough. educators. In that climate, we then find talk of youth contracts, The second question refers to a visit that I paid to payment by results, career support guarantees, youth the Indian Army in 1973, including the state of Orissa job promises and apprenticeship programmes but I in East India. That evening, we had an audience with am bound to ask: for what? Are the jobs actually there the very impressive governor of the province. I said to which can be operated by the young people to whom her that I had noticed, driving around Orissa, that I we are promising all these guarantees, supports, results had not seen a single agricultural machine, all I had and so on? Have we ever analysed exactly what the seen were people with hoes and spades. She said: “You situation really is in terms of the availability of jobs? tell me which is best. Is it best to have machines We live in an era when, as one found in Orissa, producing more than you can use; or is it better to machines are taking over from men and labour-saving have everyone in employment?”. It is a question I have is the phrase, so where are these jobs? I ask that never been able to answer. because it is hugely important that the Government The third question refers to when I was commanding should establish precisely what the job situation is Belfast between 1978 and 1980. During that time, I going to be before making all these promises. There is used to see a great deal of a very interesting politician nothing worse than to make promises that are totally called Paddy Devlin, one of the founders of the Social incapable of being kept, particularly to the young. Democratic and Labour Party, who was imprisoned in With the disillusioned young, they will lose not only the 1950s as a member of the IRA but was a very this generation but other generations for the future. distinguished Minister of Health in the short-lived power-sharing executive in 1974. During that time, 12.42 pm there was a proposal that a car factory should be developed by a firm called DeLorean on the interface Lord Giddens: My Lords, I congratulate my noble between the Catholic and Protestant areas, employing friend Lord Adonis on having secured this debate and people from both sides, but the Catholics did not have on introducing it in such a lucid and compelling way. a tradition of working with metals in that sort of To quote him, I say, “Oi! I would give you a job any industry. The Government established an employment time”, although my noble friend has held a lot of centre in Turf Lodge, in the heartland of Catholic interesting jobs. west Belfast, to start training people to get jobs in the As the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, said, youth DeLorean factory. That was objected to by the IRA, unemployment is a gigantic problem across the world. who sent in the 10 year-olds to try to burn it. They In the Middle East and north African countries, more failed, so the 14 year-olds put in. They did not do it, than 90% of young people aged 16 to 24 are not in but the 16 year-olds made a much better job of it, work. A high proportion of those young people are which left a derelict site which I then took over as a NEETS or, as they like to say in continental countries, base. ninis—neither in education nor work. Ninis is a slightly 1439 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1440 more compact way of putting it. Indeed, youth some critics argue. However, it would be a great mistake unemployment was one of the sources of the Arab to try to normalise these statistics because young spring, as we know. Twenty per cent of young people people are going to face the very demanding structural in the EU are ninis and, as has been mentioned and as conditions that I have just mentioned. For these reasons, is very familiar, the problem is especially acute in the crisis is too deep to be addressed simply by active Spain. labour market measures. I am not necessarily against I ask noble Lords to remember that measuring the youth contract, the Work Programme and so forth— unemployment is very complex. Sometimes it is better they are mostly continuations of new Labour policy to measure by rates but often it is better to measure by under other names anyway—but those are really absolute numbers, as long as you factor in population palliatives, even if a lot of money is spent on them. growth and so forth. It is very important to be precise I have three questions for the Minister. Macrostructural about the statistics that one is using. However, these intervention is likely to be far more important but here statistics clearly show that in a global society, there is a the Government’s cupboard is worryingly bare and structural problem of enormous significance with their policies on job generation are alarmingly weak. potentially long-term consequences. To summarise what First, where will new net jobs come from? In this other noble Lords have already said, it could be said country we have, as it were, a primitive policy of that youth today, in industrial countries and in the deregulation which I do not think any other country in UK, faces a perfect storm. I will mention three factors the world is following today. Surely more active here. collaboration between government and business is needed, as are more long-term planning and a more First, this recession—it may be a depression, as my active industrial policy than the Government have. noble friend Lord Wood said—is no ordinary recession. It seems, to me anyway, to be in some part a crisis of Secondly, how will the Government confront inequality competitiveness in western countries as a whole, which of a structural nature, which has a massive impact on will be very difficult to repair and which will demand long-term youth unemployment, and what is their large-scale restructuring. There are no easy options position on the need to further reduce child poverty for us here any longer and the processes of reconstruction where, after all, new Labour has been pretty successful? will bear heavily on young people, even if only on the I am in favour of a tax that would switch from the very “last in, first out” principle. rich to the very poor. That is a sensible and, now, a feasible idea. Secondly, as the right reverend Prelate mentioned, the older generation now has a stranglehold on Finally, the Government should be boosting numbers resources—for example, in the housing market or, in in higher education rather than cutting back. Countries future, pensions. My source is in some part The Pinch in the southern rim—Spain and so forth—have about by David Willetts MP, an interesting discussion of 40% in higher education, like us. Successful countries intergenerational inequality. Youngerpeople are bound such as Germany or the Scandinavian countries have to struggle in such a situation. It implies that we must 53% to 60%, which has the dual function of keeping have greater intergenerational equality. I would dispute people out of the labour market and getting them into to some degree what the right reverend Prelate said jobs. I welcome the Minister’s comments on these about early retirement ages because countries that points. have those, such as the southern countries in Europe, also tend to have high levels of youth unemployment 12.50 pm while countries in the north that have a very high proportion of older people in employment, such as Lord McFall of Alcluith: My Lords, I am privileged Finland, also have low rates of youth unemployment. to participate in this debate. I congratulate my noble Those things are not necessarily oppositional. friend Lord Adonis on his compelling and lucid exposition of the problem and the way forward. As my noble Thirdly, it is very important that a major part of friend Lord Giddens said, this is a complex problem, what restructuring will involve is that fundamental and we have to see it in the wider context of inequality changes are happening in labour markets. There is a and global unemployment. According to ILO figures, leap in the levels of job destruction, primarily as a there are 75 million unemployed people aged between result of the impact of IT and automation, as has just 18 and 25. The first thing the Government should do been mentioned. The lifespan of an average medium-sized is to look again at growth. That has been missing from firm today is only about one third of what it was in the this agenda, and it is very important that we look at it. 1970s and therefore young people today will face a There have been recessions in the 1980s, the 1990s very volatile job market. For that reason, I have some and now. After each recession, youth unemployment reservations about apprenticeships—at least, in how went up, but since this recession youth unemployment— they should be structured—because life skills and those without work and not in education—has increased adaptability are likely to be as important as technical by 232,000. Mention has been made of the Labour skills. We just do not know when a technical skill will Government’s target to eliminate child poverty by become obsolete. It could happen almost overnight as 2020. That was not fully achieved, but the figures it did, for example, in the printing industry some today show that 900,000 young people have been years ago. taken out of poverty.That is a cause for some celebration, The level of youth unemployment in this country is but there is much to do. I suggest that the Government lower than in many other EU countries but, as the copy the Labour Government’s 2020 target for child noble Lord is especially prone to say, if you measure it poverty by having a similar target for youth in absolute terms its increase is perhaps not as great as unemployment. The first priority should be to reduce 1441 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1442

[LORD MCFALL OF ALCLUITH] As a former teacher, I have also seen the long-term it to pre-recession levels using jobcentres. The Labour effects when young people leave school alienated and Government used jobcentres, when they were revamped, disillusioned. It has been my sad experience to meet very well to get people into employment. Establishing some former pupils 10 or more years later. They have a a youth employment and skills service would be very partner or a wife and children, but when you ask them important in that area. about their job, they say they have never had one. The Government need to be mindful of the welfare Between 18 and 25 are the precious six or seven years. cuts of £2 billion that took place on Good Friday this Experience and statistics show that if we do not get year. There has been talk of an extra £10 billion of young people at that time, we have possibly lost them welfare cuts. It is very important that the Minister says for life. That is the message that we have to address that that will not happen, because the cuts that have today. The overriding question is how we address the taken place have already affected low-income families insecurity in society. As the right reverend Prelate said, and people looking for jobs. Today’s Daily Telegraph our generation feels that the next generation will not reports the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions have the same chances. I suggest that economic progress saying: “Get a job, IDS tells parents on dole; Working and social stability go hand in hand and, if we do not at least 35 hours a week is only way to lift children out tackle youth unemployment with vigour, we are destroying of poverty”. We agree, so we are looking for government the future not only for young people in this generation proposals to see how that is done. The overriding but for all in society. message today has to be that it is not the private sector that is going to do this. We are facing massive deleveraging. 12.57 pm As the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, said, this recession is going to take many years to sort out. We are talking Lord German: My Lords, I too pay tribute to the about a decade or more, so a government initiative noble Lord, Lord Adonis, for securing this debate. I and an active welfare state are very important. shall say a few words later on about his opening remarks because he raised matters of great importance The Government could illustrate their commitment that lie underneath this important issue. As many on that by ensuring that each government department— noble Lords, including my noble friends Lord Bates indeed, each government Minister—has a number of and Lord Roberts, have said, this is not a new problem. such young people. If the Prime Minister were seen We have seen the number of unemployed young people coming out of Downing Street into his car with a reaching ever upwards since 2002, but it is acerbated at couple of young unemployed people behind him, it the moment. Young people are especially badly hit by would send a powerful visual message that the poor economic times. Employers are reluctant to hire Government were taking this issue very seriously. A new workers, more experienced workers compete for Minister for Young People, particularly unemployed lower paid entry-level jobs and older workers hold on young people, is very important. to their jobs for longer than usual. Education has been mentioned. Education is the As the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, said, this is not way forward. I left school at 15 or 16. My second simply a UK problem. It affects the developed world chance came by going back to night school, then to and the developing world alike. Across Europe, the further education and then to university. For me, that Americas, the Middle East and north Africa, the was the pathway forward. It was my salvation. We problems are the same. In its recent youth employment cannot emphasise enough the need for education. The trend report, the ILO forecasts that the current high suggestions that have been made to the Minister today levels of youth unemployment around the world will should be taken very seriously. We should use further continue for the next four years. The growth in the education colleges, particularly in the technical skills knowledge economy, globalisation and technological areas and local areas, to foster that extra employment change have led to a fall in the demand for low-skilled for young people. Above all, the economy needs to be workers. Entry-level jobs tend to be concentrated in rebalanced. There is a growing north-south divide. I the service sector, and many of them require people to know that from representing an area where employment have soft skills. We can think of the people who has consistently been relatively high. I suggest that answer the telephone when you have a banking problem there are still lessons to be learnt from the Mittelstand or an insurance problem. They require soft skills and a in Germany and from the Fraunhofer Institute about readiness to be available for on-the-job work from day how they integrate manufacturing and education. A one. It is regrettable that many of our young people lot could be made of that issue. without work are not coming out of the education We are establishing a forgotten and invisible generation, system with these skills. particularly those without skills or qualifications. I We have a long-term issue with a serious short-term saw that when I was a deputy head teacher in the spike, although the short term might extend over two 1970s in Glasgow. I was put in charge of a truancy or three years. As with all longer-term, deep-seated unit, as it was called, for children who did not come to problems, a degree of political consensus is required if school. They were demotivated at such an early age. we are to tackle the long term. In his very interesting They were alienated, and it was very difficult to get opening remarks, the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, concluded them to engage. The message is that we should not that there were areas of great agreement, which is give up. We need a more intensive approach in education. what we are hearing today. For the longer-term problems My noble friend Lord Adonis made a number of very that we are going to have to deal with, which will span valuable suggestions on education, which I think the more than one election period, does he have any ideas Minister has taken on. about how we can promote that consensus over a 1443 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1444 number of years? Equally, does he have any idea how more strongly with employers. The Chartered Institute we can produce it for the UK as a whole? I was of Personnel Development rightly says that employers interested, and I know that my interest was shared by can and should make a difference by building a many people around the Chamber, in the way in which relationship with young people from school to labour- you have to handle the education system and make market entry. What are the Government doing to changes to ensure that we get the outputs that we support the institute in its campaign to engage more need. However, I know that those views are somewhat employers? On the demand side, it is really a question in conflict with those of some of his colleagues currently of whether the Government have done enough to holding ministerial posts in the country in which I live. rationalise the myriad relatively small-scale funded If we have a requirement to provide UK solutions to interventions. I know that the Local Government problems of this sort, I wonder how we can best get Association is keen that that should happen. together and reach that consensus, which cannot be This debate has been a wonderful opportunity to achieved without the education and skills agenda. work together in seeking common solutions, and I My second point is about the underlying problem believe that it has gone a considerable way towards that we are trying to solve here. You could address achieving that. different remarks to different part of the problem, but I agree with the ACEVO commission on UK employment, 1.04 pm whose conclusion was that there is a, Baroness Howells of St Davids: My Lords, I thank “lack of vision for the ‘forgotten half’ of young people who are my noble friend Lord Adonis for raising this subject not destined for university or a high quality apprenticeship post-16”, for debate and for the sympathetic way in which he has and that the route into work for these 16 to 18 year-olds outlined his concerns. was, Those noble Lords who have heard me speak will “more like an unmarked ?eld of landmines”. realise that my research is always from the school of life. I would like to take a few minutes to concentrate That drives me to the conclusion that the issue that on the young black British male. From time to time, I matters more than any other is those young people meet young British men whose skins are black to who are in the NEET category, a term we have used discuss their concerns. I would like to share one such extensively in this debate. I suspect that that is too story. A 24 year-old with a university degree in quantity general a title but this group is the most difficult to surveying has been seeking employment for the past reach, and early intervention is crucial if we are to two years. His question to me was: “If you were a make a change, which is why the pupil premium is so young black man, would you go looking for work?”. It important in getting in early. In terms of intervention, was a rhetorical question, so I waited. He continued: those people are the most difficult to reach—the high “I wake at 6 am and switch on the radio, and all you fruit on the tree, if you like; the most tricky to find hear is that black boys are criminals—another killing, appropriate solutions for. They become even more another raid on a black person’s home. If you’re lucky, important at times of economic difficulty, as more you have a hot drink, get dressed and set off to attend educated younger people enter the jobs market at the an interview. You take the bus or train, and the papers lower-skills end, so displacing the unskilled. All the and the conversations are all about black boys—not figures now show that a growing number of people are black criminals, but all black boys. You sink into moving into that category of core NEETs. yourself and behave as though you were dead or deaf. I shall give your Lordships examples of pre-NEET You arrive for the interview and you feel exposed, work being done in two areas that I know well. The you’re on show, and not as a quantity surveyor—no first is at Newport High School in Wales and the one in the room looks like you. You enter into an second is Bedminster Down School in Bristol. Both interview trying to sell yourself. No one is really listening. these schools have taken pupils from the age of 13 out You want to shout, ‘I have the qualifications and all I of the school environment altogether, put them into a need is the chance to show you that I can do it’. You community environment and worked with them on see the red faces and what I think are their lying eyes. trying to raise their skills, with such a level of success Would you bother to go for another interview, and that those pupils have achieved a pass rate of five another, and another? I have had 50 interviews in two GCSEs or more of about 50%, and about 50% of that years—no job”. 50% are going on to post-16 education. These experiments His story is not an isolated one. Others in the group are probably being replicated around the country. Are nodded through everything that he said. What did I we building upon those successful stories of local say? My answer was to try to convince the young man experience and local work, which may well be replicated that he had done his bit and that his only failure would by voluntary organisations and schools throughout be not to try, attempting to get him to understand that the country? It is important that we try to meet the over the past two years he has been experiencing the substantial needs of this group of young people who canker of racism, power and prejudice. Often we are in are so difficult to reach. danger of blaming the victims. In effect, the victims The youth contract contains a suite of measures, are less blameworthy than those with power who fail but does the Minister believe that they are yet of to see their potential, beyond the colour of their skin. sufficient scale to deal with the problems that we are The excuses are numerous and I am sure we will hear a facing in both the short and long terms? I also believe lot more about this as the debate continues. Most that we will have to do more on the supply side. Most reports have highlighted why unemployment among of the interventions that we have been talking about young black men is higher than white unemployment are on the demand side, but we have to work much and have made excuses such as lower educational 1445 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1446

[BARONESS HOWELLS OF ST DAVIDS] of its campaign to increase employment opportunities attainment, attending less prestigious universities, living for people with autism. We know that disabled young in areas of high unemployment, migration and sector people are two and a half times more likely not to be clustering. All these reasons have some truth but at the in education, employment or training than their non- base is institutional racism in this society. I refer the disabled peers. Furthermore, just 15% of adults with Minister to an April briefing by the Runnymede Trust autism are in full-time paid employment. These are on race and community because it poses cause, effect clear signs that the educational provision available to and possible solutions. young people with autism is currently not allowing I return to where I began. Blaming the victim is them to achieve their ambitions. unhelpful. It is often said that they do not want to A host of reports in recent years has evidenced that work, but I can tell noble Lords that the majority of the transition to adulthood for young people with young black men want the same things as young autism and other disabilities is poor, and that there is a white men. They want to work in a job that pays a serious lack of educational opportunities for this group. living wage. Despite the failures in the education system, An Ofsted report stated that, most have managed to prepare themselves for adult life according to ability. Like all of us, they want to be “the real choice of education and training opportunities at 16 was safe from criminals, safe from terrorists and have clear limited for many young people with learning difficulties and/or disabilities. Inspectors found few courses available for young air and clean water. They want time for family and people with the lowest levels of attainment”. friends so that when they grow old they too can retire with dignity and respect. A life without unfair For many young people with autism, particularly those discriminatory practices, which cut across race, religion, with complex needs, the choices for post-school learning class and language, is all that they ask. The Government are very limited indeed. We know that young people cannot solve all these problems, but they should be with autism want to access employment and training. mindful of how they deal with racism. The Stephen However, we also know that they need the right support Lawrence report recommended certain steps that could in order to do so. While there is a dearth of education be taken. I sit here and watch those steps being dismantled and training available for many young people, young daily. people with autism have far fewer options. The lack of The Government need to take a good look at what education and training for young people with autism has been achieved and stop cutting away at all the is directly related to youth unemployment. Currently good practices that have been put in place—to unlearn only one in four young people with autism continue the racism. Take a look at what is happening in their education beyond school, and so are adequately football: employment for young people, whatever the equipped to enter the world of work. colour of their skin. Take a look at what is happening I am 64. When I was thinking what I should say in motor racing. Take a look at what is happening to today, I tried to imagine what it would be like to be the black teachers who have studied to enter our 16 and autistic. What would it be like to face the next education system, and at how they, too, are victims of 50 or 60 years of my life staying at home with parents, racism. Take a look at the police; they, too, are the family and carers, or living in a residential home? victims of racism. How do the Government see them What of your Lordships—what if each of us was getting justice when these things happen and when the 16 and autistic? What if all the experiences, opportunities very road towards justice is being cut from under their and achievements each of us has enjoyed in our lives feet every day? had never taken place? That is the prospect for up to We should be looking at what is really wrong with 75% of autistic youngsters: a cruel exclusion. The life society. Getting a job is a good thing. Being denied a experiences that we all take for granted are denied to job because you are the colour that you are pervades them. the black community throughout this country. Some are lucky; some get jobs. Again, they always have to That is why post-16 education options are essential look at themselves in the mirror as a black person and to support young people with autism into work and then as a white person. The benefits of looking seriously community life. Both of these outcomes benefit society at black youth may stop you from having to blame as well as individuals and families. The social impact them for every evil when the next riots happen. of unemployment for young people with autism is huge. Not continuing in education or training beyond school leads to a loss of potential for young people 1.12 pm and for society as a whole. Failure to provide opportunities Lord Touhig: My Lords, I join all noble Lords in for education and training that will lead to employment congratulating my noble friend Lord Adonis on this denies young people with autism the right to fulfil debate, which is most timely. I will concentrate my their potential and to contribute to society. remarks on the challenges faced by young disabled In addition, there are huge social costs. Failures to people, in particular those with autism, when they provide for young people with autism also lead to seek to continue education or secure employment after higher long-term financial costs. In one of its reports the age of 16. the National Audit Office found that £1,000,000 per Youngdisabled people at 16 hold the same aspirations person could be saved by supporting young people to stay in education and find fulfilling careers as their with learning difficulties to gain life skills and be more non-disabled friends—a point which was well made in independent. It also found that supporting a disabled the National Autistic Society’s publication The young person to access work reduces lifetime costs to Undiscovered Workforce, which was launched as part the public purse by £170,000 per person. 1447 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1448

Is there a solution to this problem? Yes, there is. We prison population, while one in seven rough sleepers can ensure that government initiatives such as the have care experience. The best chance to protect these youth contract are accessible to young people with young people from such poor outcomes and help them autism and others with disabilities. Can the Minister into the job market is to give them an excellent experience say how the Government will make the youth contract while they are in care—to seize the opportunity then fully accessible to disabled young people? Can he to build the resilience that they need. confirm that the Access to Work funds will be available To concentrate on the most vulnerable group of for young disabled people doing internships and voluntary children in care—young people in children’s homes, placements? The raising of the participation age to 18 who are the neediest 7% of the 60,000 children in local is most welcome. However, it appears that little thought authority care—we could do far better to give them has been given to what that might mean for young that excellent experience. I highlight these children in disabled people, many of whom are not in employment, part because recent child protection failures for girls, education or training, not through choice but as a with 187 incidents of suspected prostitution coming result of a lack of suitable provision. The raising of from children’s homes in the past 10 months alone, the participation age will only help young people if it have highlighted the need for reform. Your Lordships coincides with the development of more and better may have noted the reports regarding these children educational settings. Have the Government invested on the BBC news and “Newsnight” last night. the extra funding that is needed to meet the additional There is now an opportunity for the Government to demands of young disabled people who are currently ensure that, in future, young people leaving children’s not participating? How have they calculated the level homes are far more ready for employment or periods of this need? They must take into account all additional of unemployment. For instance, they might institute needs, not just those of young people with SEN. an independent inquiry into residential care which The charity Ambitious about Autism produced an could look at the professional qualifications of staff excellent document entitled Finished at School. It makes and the possibility of emulating the success of the a number of recommendations in this document which Scottish Institute for Residential Child Care, which is I believe would improve post-16 education for learners devoted to training staff. They could seek to emulate with autism, which would have an impact on levels of the success of initiatives in the teaching profession, employment. The document makes four key points: looking, for instance, at the Training and Development there should be a clear legal right to educational Agency, the National College for School Leadership support up to the age of 25 for young disabled people; and the excellent programme Teach First, about which a funding system which gives young people and families the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, spoke. That is now more information, choice and support is needed; a being stretched to Social Work First and could perhaps cross-government focus on outcomes and destinations be applied to residential care. for young disabled people is needed; and, finally, a In social work, the Government could consider further education workforce with the skills to support copying the College of Social Work and the introduction young people with autism to achieve their ambitions is of chief social workers in each local authority and essential. central government. They might engage with the public The Minister is a friend—he is a friend of all those in seeking funds and practical help. They might look who campaign and support people who want to improve to the great success of the charity Volunteer Reading the quality of life for people with autism. In my time Help, which, in partnership with the Evening Standard, in this House and in the other place I have certainly raises funds and recruits reading mentors to work with found that he has listened. I hope that he will listen to thousands of our vulnerable children in primary schools. us on this occasion. Surely many of the public would be moved to volunteer to help children in residential care with their reading. Some businesses might wish to support services for 1.19 pm these young people as an expression of their corporate The Earl of Listowel: My Lords, it is a privilege to social responsibility. These are all our children. follow the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and his passionate The single greatest concern about children’s homes advocacy for autistic adults and children. I, too, am is the mismatch between the qualifications of the staff most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, for and the needs of the children. In England, we require securing this important and timely debate. I thank the staff to have a level-3 NVQ in childcare and a manager Minister for organising a seminar recently on the to have a level-4 NVQ. They are roughly equivalent to employment support allowance. It allowed many of us an A-level and the first year of a degree, respectively. the opportunity to speak to the manager of a On the continent, the norm is a bachelor of arts jobcentre—to have the privilege of speaking to someone degree, yet as residential care is far more widely used who had spent much of her life helping adults and there, the needs of their children—a mixed group—are young people into employment. It was a very helpful far lower. Therefore, we have a perfect storm, with experience. often poorly qualified staff caring for very needy, I will concentrate on the lack of employment for often very challenging, children. young people leaving care. They are especially vulnerable A project that brought German residential childcare because of their poor start in life. They are heavily workers to work in children’s homes here was undertaken. overrepresented in the NEETs group; a third of 19 year- Professor Claire Cameron evaluated this work and olds leaving care are NEETs. One sees the consequences commented that the German social pedagogues, too easily. Half of the juvenile prison population have “were also rather taken aback by the role of the residential worker had care experience, as have a quarter of the adult in England. They”— 1449 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1450

[THE EARL OF LISTOWEL] is not part of society, the social consequences for the the pedagogues— rest of society are likely to be dire. Indeed, the panel “had a range of professional qualifications, the majority of them felt that it was possible that there would be further graduates, and some were also equipped to be employed as social riots in the future. workers in their own country, or to work with other user groups as well in a range of other responsible roles. In contrast, in The Government have made certain cuts in public children’s residential care their English equivalents have low provision, which has not helped. It was wrong to status and little influence. Their professional input is marginalised dispense with the EMA, the allowance introduced by and they lack autonomy. They usually refer on to experts rather the previous Government, which was designed to assist than take control of issues themselves”. young people taking on further education and training. She went on: Some of the rioters claimed that they had nothing to “Our child care system is over-bureaucratic and risk-averse. do; clearly, it is not a good idea to economise in youth History and policy have created this set of circumstances or not provision. altered them. It is unsurprising that our continental visitors often felt bemused and deskilled”. However, the big problem is the lack of employment. Here, as many of us have said, the decline of the The author Paul Connolly grew up in a children’s manufacturing base in this country has resulted in a home. He learnt to read and write in his 20s, and went lack of employment even for skilled people. This is on to found a successful business and to publish his now generally recognised. My own union, Unite, has best-selling autobiography, Against All Odds. When long campaigned for more support for manufacturing. asked the secret of his success, when so many of his It believes that a diverse and thriving manufacturing peers had died young, he said that he had always sector is necessary and that the economy should never sought to surround himself with successful people. again have to rely on the service sector to generate For him, the route out of an abusive children’s home employment and growth. It clearly has not done so. In environment was a local boxing club and the men this context, the provision of adequate training is very there who took an interest in him and encouraged him important. I am pleased to see that there has been a to become a boxer. Mr Connolly has written to the revival of interest in apprenticeship training. Children’s Minister, saying: “I attribute my success to the people who positively influenced In a recent document, Unite said that ensuring that me, and my avoidance of negative influences. My experience was there are sufficient workplace skills is a matter of that as soon as I left the care system I cut all ties with everyone shared responsibility between the Government, employers, that was connected, and I surrounded myself with people I could trade unions and individuals. It believes that the aspire to … It is so important that these vulnerable children can Government must take action to ensure that employers aspire to somebody that has achieved in life and presents a train their workers. The only way to ensure that this positive role model”. happens is through the introduction of a statutory There are many fine examples of good practice in training levy. It quotes the example of the vocational residential care, and most of those who work there education and training system in Germany, which sincerely give their best efforts for these children. offers qualifications in a broad spectrum of professions However, government action is needed if a consistent and skills, and can flexibly adapt to the changing high-quality standard of care is to be offered to these needs of the labour market. Trade unions are involved young people, and if they are to develop the resilience and co-operate fully in the system, which is widely to succeed in what is now—and will continue to be for respected throughout Germany. several years, as noble Lords have said—a challenging employment market. For many young people, the best I have referred previously in debates in this House placement is in a high-quality children’s home. We to the role that unions can play. The TUC has a need a strategy for this sector to prevent further drifting department concerned with training and operates its downwards. I look forward to the Minister’s reply; he own department called unionlearn. It also supports may wish to write to me. courses of further education for members at Ruskin College. I believe that the Government should provide the right conditions for employers to take on apprentices 1.26 pm and must provide funding and support, particularly as Baroness Turner of Camden: My Lords, I thank my regards SMEs. That is far more important than interfering noble friend for introducing this debate and for the with and removing employment protection, which has manner in which he did so. We are all aware of the been suggested in some quarters. These are just some statistics. We know that more than a million young thoughts about youth unemployment, which we all people are unemployed, in many cases without the find very troubling. hope of getting any kind of job. Moreover, they are Ultimately, of course, it depends on the economy. surrounded by a culture in which far too much emphasis There are many critics of the Government’s present is placed on money and possessions. direction, although it is to be hoped that there are It is now nearly 12 months since the riots—the some indications that that direction may change. Austerity 5 Days in August, to quote the title of the excellent as a policy is not providing the improvements sought. interim report published in the aftermath of the riots. As a result there is much dissatisfaction among ordinary The panel conducting the investigation did not cite working people, with rising costs, stagnant wages and one particular cause, but the riots involved mainly a general feeling of insecurity. This is unlikely to very young people. Mainly male, they mostly came produce jobs for young people. A young person with a from relatively deprived areas and felt excluded. That job, and perhaps a hope of advancement, has a stake is no excuse for the violence and arson that happened. in society and is unlikely to riot. But to deal with these However, if a generation of young people feels that it problems we need a policy for growth, which is increasingly 1451 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1452 recognised. In the mean time, some of the measures maths. Here half of our young people are turned off supported by the unions, including my own, particularly the subject before they have even reached the age of the union policy documents that they have produced, taking their GCSEs. are certainly worthy of consideration. In the same research, it was found that of the 64% of 14 to 18 year-olds who had received careers guidance from their teacher only 14% had found it useful. They 1.31 pm found the most useful source of guidance was visiting Baroness Prosser: My Lords, I, too, thank my an employer. However, of the 16 to 18 year-old cohort noble friend Lord Adonis for initiating this debate. As only about a quarter had had the opportunity of a everyone has said, he introduced it in a very interesting workplace visit. Why is there not an organised programme and exciting way. Very many young people are of workplace visits? Work experience can be a very waiting to hear what can be done to help them get a good thing but taster visits well before a youngster has good start to their adult lives. There have of course made exam or subject choices can help to clarify what been a whole range of attempts by various Governments is expected and needed, not only in terms of knowledge to deal with the problem of youth unemployment. and study but in terms of behaviour and how to dress This problem has been with us through good economic et cetera. I am sure that many schools do good work times and bad. I agree of course that ameliorating linking up with the local business community but far steps must be taken to try to use all possible levers to too many do not. Taking away the careers advice make sure that young people become connected to the function from schools will only make this matter world of work. worse. Many others have spoken about the various schemes In 2010, I was asked by the Recruitment & Employment currently in place and I do not want to comment too Confederation to chair a task force into the issues much on that aspect of the problem. I want instead to around youth unemployment. We produced a report address the two overarching issues which in my view with a number of findings, many of which were directed have given rise to this problem, and which have also towards the relationship between education providers already been touched on. First, I shall turn to the and employers. Subsequently, more than 100 employers vastly changed structure of the labour market, which have signed the REC charter, which commits them has gone from a manufacturing, all-hands needed inter alia to develop links with local schools and economy to a service-based landscape with high skills colleges, to promote apprenticeships and to participate and high rewards for the relative few at the top to the in specific initiatives developed by, for example, the lower skilled and certainly lower paid many at the Prince’s Trust or Business in the Community. bottom. Consequent to this change comes my second While these ideas are aimed at employers, this does point; namely, the failure of subsequent Governments not let the Government off the hook. Reducing financial to recognise that this change calls for a major overhaul support for students is hardly the right message to be to the provision of education and training. sending at a time when there is a skills shortage in the I am obviously pleased by the increase in the number labour market, which is currently being filled by better of young people moving into further education and trained and better educated workers from overseas. the increase in university numbers. I am also the first Intensive support is required to train our young people person to say that an all-round education is a good for all levels of employment. Vocational courses have thing. I agree that access to quality literature and for too long been the poor relation but we also need poetry is part of the stuff of life—although, perhaps I investment in research and high-level technical skills. may say, not necessarily learning poetry by rote. I Fiddling about with a short-term patchwork of schemes welcome the proposal that primary school children and programmes is hardly likely to put us on a footing should learn a foreign language. I believe that discipline, with our competitors, never mind help us out of this good manners and timely attendance are essential recession. steps towards becoming a good citizen. But I also It is not even cost effective. Research by ACEVO think that education has to be provided within the shows that in 2012 the £4.8 billion cost of youth context of “What is it for? Where will it lead?”. How unemployment to the Exchequer is higher than the does this stage in a young person’s life help them when budget for further education for 16 to 19 year-olds. they move to the next stage? Why is academic education Add to that the cost to society generally of a generation valued so much more highly than vocational training of disaffected young people and this is not a good and skills? picture. On one final point, I find it strange that this Recent research by City and Guilds, which looked debate has been designated as falling within the purview at the views of 3,000 young people aged between seven of only the DWP rather than the Department for and 18, showed that the link between education and Education or the Department for Business, Innovation employment is central to tackling youth unemployment. and Skills. It is within those departments that the Some 69% of those young people thought that maths answers to this problem will be found. I hope that the was very important to helping them get on in life. debate will be brought to the attention of the relevant However, the 14 to 18 year-olds said that they found Ministers. maths boring and irrelevant. More than half of the 16 to 18 year-olds said, unprompted, that taught maths 1.39 pm should be geared towards real life and set in relevant or practical scenarios. In this country, we are in dire Lord Collins of Highbury: My Lords, I thank my need of employees trained in technical and scientific noble friend Lord Adonis for initiating this debate. subjects, the basis of which is a good appreciation of The only thing I am slightly surprised at is that we 1453 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Youth Unemployment 1454

[LORD COLLINS OF HIGHBURY] Schools need to improve their relationship with the occasionally meet in the local greasy spoon and I am world of work. That does not mean right at the last getting bigger and he is getting thinner. I do not know moment; it means that on an ongoing basis relationships what I am doing wrong. with local employers are incredibly important. On the To be unemployed is horrific, whatever age you subject of term-time employment, from the age of 15 I are. Clearly, we cannot separate the rise in youth took a Saturday job working in the Swan and Edgar unemployment today from the country’s overall economic department store in Piccadilly. It taught me a lot of performance. However, as my noble friend Lord Wood lessons, including the importance of being on time, said, research studies have shown that youth because my pay of 19 shillings and 6 pence would be unemployment has risen more steeply than all-age docked if I was not. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord unemployment in this and recent recessions. That has Roberts, and my noble friend Lady Prosser that what not always been true. Up to 1970, unemployment rates we need is to bring all aspects of government together for people under 20 were below those of all ages. in bearing on this issue. It cannot just be a matter of According to Paul Bivand, in his piece for the TUC benefits. What steps will the Minister take to ensure circulated by the Library on the youth labour market, that there is joined-up action by the Government? Britain’s structural youth unemployment is rooted in Labour supports any step to help unemployed people the recessions of the 1980s and 1990s. The recoveries back to work, but the measures in place and those from those recessions never saw the return to the norm recently announced provide no real guarantee of a of young people leaving school at 16 and immediately job. Today, after nine months of unemployment, a going into a job or getting a job. Even when the young person will be referred to the Work Programme, economy was booming, approximately 7% to 9% of all where a young person can go for two years and fall out young people were headed for long-term worklessness of the back of it with still no job, having been unemployed from the age of 16. for 33 months. It was reckless to scrap the future jobs fund in May 2010 and, with the youth contract The costs of long-term youth unemployment, now announcement, provide no help to young people until and in the future, are enormous. As my noble friend April this year. In effect we have had two years of Lady Prosser said, according to the ACEVO Commission inaction from the Government on this important issue. report, chaired by David Miliband, the cost to the The 160,000 youth contract work subsidy placements Exchequer in 2012 of youth unemployment will be over three years means just over 53,000 funded jobs £4.8 billion, which is more than the budget for further every year, fewer than the future jobs fund, which education for 16 to 19 year-olds and will cost the provided 105,000 starts between October 2009 and economy £10.7 billion in lost output. March 2011. There is no guarantee that these jobs will What are the long-term costs to the individuals who be created, as it is merely an incentive rather than a start adult life as unemployed or in a job with little guarantee. I repeat the question asked by many noble scope for development? Unfortunately, the experiences friends and noble Lords. How does the Minister think, of young people who are in work are not always seen in reviewing the scheme, that its scope and number can as a policy concern. While many people will progress be advanced? from lower paid jobs into better work, some are at A central ambition of Ed Miliband and the next high risk of cycling between unemployment and low-paid Labour Government will be to conquer long-term work. Of those young people who have left education, youth unemployment. As my noble friend Lord Adonis 17% are in elementary work, while 13% are in sales has already said, a policy towards meeting that objective and customer service occupations. Without support to was announced in March this year, which is a real jobs progress into better jobs and build their qualifications, guarantee for young unemployed people out of work these young people face uncertain labour market futures. for more than a year. The scheme will ensure that after There are also very high rates of under-employment 12 months of unemployment, all young people aged among employed young people who are not in education, between 18 and 24 will go on a six-month long paid with 9% of those who are not in education and are job, preferably in the private sector. This would apply working part time doing so because they cannot find to at least 110,000 people. For that the Government full-time employment. will pay the wages directly to cover 25 hours of work Things will change only when society, government, per week at the minimum wage. In return—and again families and employers alike see that the transition this is the responsibility issue—the employer would be from school to work can and should be a positive expected to cover the training and development of the pathway to developing skills and life-long learning. young person for a minimum of 10 hours per week. Through the debate, I have heard many noble Lords The Government have a responsibility to provide refer to the importance of ongoing training. I am very opportunities for young people, employers have a sad at the demise of the industrial training boards, responsibility to train them, and young people have a which ensured that all employers took responsibility. responsibility to make the most of those chances. I As many other noble Lords have said, the path from endorse what many noble Lords have said, including school to university is well known and supported, but my noble friend Lady Sherlock. We need to give real 50% of our young people do not head in that direction. hope and real opportunities to young people. Here I In my family in the 1970s, three out of the four share the views of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop children went into long-term apprenticeships and training. of Chester, who was right to stress the need to nurture Now the job destination has little in terms of opportunities, young people, because it is a moral issue as well. It is in is too often ad hoc and low quality, and sometimes our interests as the older generation to do that for chaotic and wasteful of public money. future generations. 1455 Youth Unemployment[14 JUNE 2012] Youth Unemployment 1456

In Spain I saw someone wearing a T-shirt on behalf no benefit from post-16 education. That report has of the Indignados. The T-shirt said: “Future of been adopted in its entirety by the Government and Youth—No job, no home, no pension, no fear!”. we are trying to make the wholesale changes in the vocational education system that it recommends. 1.50 pm We also have lower productivity than many other nations, which is partly explained by the lack of skills The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, in the working population. Increasing participation is Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): My designed to make a significant contribution to economic Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, for the growth. However, it is easy to get too gloomy. A large tone he set in introducing the debate, which noble number of youngsters succeed in education and make Lords have followed. This has been a very thoughtful a successful transition into the world of work. The debate. The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, got it number of young people not in full-time education right when she said that we are all against youth and unemployed is around 10% of all 16 to 24 year-olds, unemployment but the question is how we solve it. which is lower than after previous recessions. The Before I get on to some of the meatier stuff, I ought noble Lord, Lord Adonis, talked about the long-term to deal with the moral dimension introduced by my unemployed in this age group. One of the things that erstwhile fellow student, the right reverend Prelate the was distorting the figures was the fact that as youngsters Bishop of Chester. I reassure him and my noble friend moved into the long-term category, they were taken Lord Roberts that there is good evidence to show that off on to training courses and were not classified in there is a positive correlation between having both that way. more older people and more younger people in the When you look through the figures at the underlying workforce. The person who has done the best research position, you will see that there has been an increase in in that area comes from the Benches opposite in the the number of long-term unemployed since the election, shape of the noble Lord, Lord Layard, who is not but it has not doubled. Today, it stands at 167,000. If present but has done excellent research on this matter. you calculated it on the same basis, it would be some Clearly, the recession has had a major impact on 153,000 at the time of the election. Therefore, there the participation and unemployment rates of young has been an increase, which is not satisfactory in any people. As other noble Lords have pointed out, the way, but it is not a substantial, horrific figure. If you relevant figures, having been broadly stable since about look at the total number and not just the long-term 1998, started to go up again in a very disturbing way figure, there are signs that there has been a small from about 2004. I remind noble Lords of the underlying decrease—again, this is not good enough—in the number figures. In 1997, the number of youngsters who were of young people on jobseeker’s allowance and other unemployed or inactive was 1.14 million. By the time forms of temporary support. that this Government came in, the figure stood at The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester 1.39 million and it has gone up a little since; it is now asked about the EU and the other moral question of 1.42 million. Therefore, we are looking at something the movement of labour. We are looking at this issue. that stems from much more than a recession; we are Interestingly, over the past year, in contrast to before looking at a structural factor in our economy and the then, the employment rate of UK nationals has held failures of our education system to keep up with the up better in this market than that for non-UK nationals, changing economy and ensure successful transitions which has fallen. for all young people, as so many noble Lords have The noble Lord, Lord Giddens, and the noble pointed out. Baroness, Lady Prosser, asked whether we should increase The noble Lord, Lord McFall, asked whether there the number of young people in higher education. We should be a statutory target for youth employment. have not changed the principles that date from 1963: We do not think that that is the right answer. The namely, everyone who can benefit from higher education noble Lord, Lord Giddens, asked where the jobs are should be able to get it. coming from. The Government seek to turn round the Clearly, too many young people are not in education, economy to get those jobs provided by the private employment or training. However, most young people sector. Indeed, private sector employment overall has spend only a short time in that NEET category. The gone up by 45,000 in the quarter, a quarter of a ones to worry about are those who spend a long time million in the year and by 634,000 since the election. in it. As I think the noble Lord, Lord Wood, said, the The figure for youth unemployment is over the longer-term impact of spending too long out of the emotive 1 million mark. However, a lot of them—30%— workforce affects many factors. I endorse all that he are full-time students who are looking predominantly said about the economic effect. That clearly concerns for part-time work. Rises in unemployment have been us as a Government, just as it concerns him. driven by longer-term factors. People who bear the The programme of education reforms, including brunt of those changes in the labour market are those increasing the freedom of schools, will help to raise who are trying to get into the market; that is a natural attainment for all pupils by the age of 16. This year, we factor. However, joined to that is significant demographic are increasing our investment to a record £7.5 billion change with a larger number of young people entering to fund education and training places for 16 to 17 year- the labour market than was the case 10 years ago. olds. Regarding the question of my noble friend Lord The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, talked about the Roberts on careers guidance, through the YouthContract Wolf report. Like him, I read that report with some we are putting in place extra adviser support for 18 to astonishment and was shocked by its finding that at 24 year-olds, including referrals to careers interviews least 350,000 16 to 19 year-olds were getting little or delivered by the National Careers Service. 1457 Youth Unemployment[LORDS] Schools 1458

[LORD FREUD] are working across government to minimise the long We are also implementing a £180 million scheme to and short-term impacts of young people being NEET target financial support to young people who need it. and to ensure that they get the opportunities and This will provide guaranteed bursaries of £1,200 a support that they need. year to help young people to overcome barriers to We are determined to increase the participation of participation. Our approach to supporting unemployed 16 to 24 year-olds in education, training and work to young people into work is based on an individual’s make a lasting difference to individual lives, improve need for short-term or more intensive, long-term support. social mobility and stimulate growth. We are interested For those who are closer to the labour market, the not in quick fixes but in lasting change and we are focus is on engaging young people in real work with changing the structures to help people on that basis. employers and keeping them active in looking for a The change is aimed at helping young people to succeed job. The options are work experience, skills, advice on in their careers and to make a much needed positive apprenticeships and support with job search. My noble contribution to our future economic success. friend Lord German asked about working with the CIPD. We are working closely with it, particularly on 2.05 pm finding employers who can offer work experience. Lord Adonis: My Lords, I have had my say. I just Jobcentre Plus is working in every part of the country, want to thank all noble Lords who participated in this placing thousands of young people in work experience. important debate and to say that I hope it serves as a Regarding the youngsters who need more support, call to action in tackling what we all agree is one of the the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, had a little bit of fun most urgent social crises of our time. over how we are trying to make sure that the resources go towards the people who really need it by getting Motion agreed. them into the Work Programme early. The aim is to get these people in at the three-month stage and the Schools: Well-being and Personal and rest at nine months. As the noble Lord will be perfectly well aware, one way that we achieve efficiency through Social Needs the Work Programme is by concentrating on payment Motion to Take Note by results. Clearly we will be able to improve the programme as it develops by refining the payments as 2.06 pm we isolate those who are harder to help. Moved By Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Last April we launched the new £1 billion Youth Contract, which has been discussed. Regrettably, the That this House takes note of the contribution cost of intermediate labour market interventions is of schools to the well-being and personal and social very high for what they achieve, and we think that needs of children and young people. there are other ways of going about this. In answer to my noble friend Lord German, who asked whether the Baroness Jones of Whitchurch: My Lords, I am very Youth Contract is enough, I can say that it has a very pleased to have the opportunity today to introduce good take-up rate. this important debate, and I do so in the knowledge that there are a number of noble Lords on all sides of We are pushing out a lot of apprenticeships, with the House with very impressive records of campaigning 256,000 having started in the first six months of the on these issues. A number of them are here today and academic year 2011-12. In answer to a question put by I look forward to learning from their contributions in the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, of those 256,000, 79,000 due course. were for 16 to 18 year-olds, although I am afraid I do not have the data for 16 to 21 year-olds. We have I also approach this debate with a sense of sadness, introduced grants to encourage, particularly, smaller because I genuinely feel that the Government opposite employers to take on youngsters in the 16 to 24 year-old have lost their way on this agenda. Their concentration age group. on education structures and exam results has overshadowed the wider contribution that schools make Again in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, to producing well rounded, confident and thoughtful we have placements for work experience and young people. As a result, the post-war consensus apprenticeships in the DWP and across government. about the wider purpose of education is unravelling. We have already put 49,000 people through work The White Paper that preceded the Education Act 1944 experience, and about half of them are now off benefits stated: after taking part in the scheme. The success rate is “The government’s purpose is to ensure for children a happier virtually identical to that of the future jobs fund, but childhood and a better start in life and to provide means for all of the difference is that the work experience scheme has developing the various talents with which they are endowed”. cost £325 per placement, whereas the future jobs fund Over the decades, through many iterations, these same was running at around £6,000 a place. principles have underpinned the provision of education Clearly, young people have borne the brunt of in this country. However, if we judge the current long-term structural and demographic changes in our Government by what they do rather than by what they economy and our society and also of failures in our say, the wider social, personal and health issues of education system. Noble Lords pointed out that children are no longer a priority. I would go so far as other countries were rather more successful. Youth to say that, rather than our education policy being unemployment is too high and it has long-term negative determined by the ideology of one man, there needs to consequences for individuals and for wider society. We be a national debate about the purpose of education 1459 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1460 to allow parents, teachers and young people themselves What about another example? The previous to raise their concerns and to seek to develop a 21st century Government sought to tackle the growing rise of obesity consensus about the role of education. and lack of exercise by setting up a comprehensive network of school sports partnerships, with a requirement While I would be the first to acknowledge that the for young people to have two, rising to five hours of previous Government did not get everything right, I exercise a week. All the reports were that the partnerships am proud of our educational achievements. There was were a great success, and that a generation of young a sustained period of improvement in education outcomes people were now being given the opportunity to have in the UK from 1997 to 2010. At the same time, we regular exercise. The first thing this Government did recognised that pupils’ low achievement was only partly was cut the funding for the sports partnerships, and determined by their education. Factors such as levels although some funding has now been returned after a of poverty, parental support, a stable home life and a national outcry the current provision is a shadow of lack of community aspiration all played their part. its former self, with many posts lost and many of the That is why we developed the Every Child Matters initiatives gone. strategy. This sought to integrate children’s services so that every child had the right to be happy, safe, achieve We believe that schools have an important role to economic well-being, enjoy life and make a positive play in tackling poor physical health and in supporting contribution. This vision achieved impressive outcomes those with behavioural difficulties or mental health in tackling poverty, providing early intervention for problems in school. We believe that by addressing Sure Start, improving nutrition and exercise in schools, these issues we will improve the capacity of children to providing programmes to tackle bullying and low self- study and learn. It is not either/or; the two things must esteem and providing improved sex education, to give go together. Similarly, there is a growing weight of just a few examples. evidence that many young children start school without the basic skills to learn. Poor parenting means that We took the view then, as now, that you cannot they do not have the vocabulary to take part in lessons expect schools to do everything. To be successful there and they do not know how to dress themselves or to needs to be a comprehensive approach to children hold a pencil. Schools have no choice but to deal with with schools and communities working together. these issues before they can progress with the formal Unfortunately this is not a philosophy that is shared stages of learning. Assuming, for example, that every by the current Government. As a result, many of the child is sufficiently school-ready that they can start to successful initiatives have now been undermined. In learn a poem by heart at age five just adds to the list of his speeches and his policy initiatives, Michael impossible demands with which teachers struggle daily. Gove has made it clear that the No.1 and only purpose Incidentally, do I detect something of a schism of schools is to drive up performance in exam between David Cameron and his Education Ministers? results. In fact he has gone as far as to admit that he The Prime Minister has been very vocal in identifying can be criticised for having too strong a focus on that children’s well-being is a key priority. It is a testing. His view is that asking schools to play their commitment shared by the World Health Organisation part in addressing the wider social problems of their and the United Nations Children’s Fund. Since we are pupils gets in the way of rigorous educational achievement. languishing somewhere near the bottom of UNICEF’s As a result, policies that were proven to be working list of 21 developed countries with regard to children’s and have a positive effect on the well-being and well-being, he seems to be on the right track. Yet learning capacity of young people have been dismantled, Ofsted is no longer required to measure it, and both or become optional extras to be implemented when Michael Gove and Nick Gibb have described it as money and time allows. The starkest example of this is peripheral or a distraction from the core purpose of the Government’s decision to remove the ring-fenced academic education, rather than recognising it as a funding for Sure Start centres, which has resulted in foundation on which to build achievement. I look hundreds up and down the country being closed or forward to hearing from the Minister whether he merged. shares the views of his colleagues in the department or However, the changes to the curriculum and school whether he agrees with the Prime Minister that schools environment are equally far reaching. Let me give an should play an important role in contributing to children’s example. Yesterday I tabled an Oral Question on well-being. nutritional standards in school food. Following the I also want to say something about the fate of the turkey twizzler scandal and Jamie Oliver’s excellent specific PSHE courses which my noble friend Lady exposé of the poor quality of school food, the School Massey has championed for so long. There are key Food Trust was set up to prepare nutritional standards elements of PSHE which it is vital for young people to that would underpin provision in all schools. The learn about and discuss to prepare themselves for outcome was a great success. School food was transformed. adult life. Learning about issues such as relationships, There was increasing evidence that it was improving self-esteem, how to counteract bullying, personal health concentration and behaviour, and uptake increased. and finance, parenting skills and sex education should This Government, in their wisdom, decided that academies not be optional add-ons to the curriculum; they are and free schools would not be obliged to adopt the essential life skills. I know that these have also been nutritional standards. Now, not surprisingly, there is pursued by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, on the evidence that these schools are selling chocolates, crisps Lib Dem Benches, which is why we were so disappointed and snacks rather than healthy food; so all the health that she felt unable to support my noble friend Lady benefits of eating quality food will be undermined as Massey’s amendment to make PSHE compulsory during more and more schools opt to become academies. the passage of the Academies Bill. 1461 Schools[LORDS] Schools 1462

[BARONESS JONES OF WHITCHURCH] and for nurturing their creativity, confidence and life Since that time, my noble friend Lady Massey and skills. We believe that this is what parents, children and the Minister have had a well rehearsed stand-off on employers want, and it is what educationists tell us is the lack of progress in the review of PSHE education. the bedrock of effective learning. If Michael Gove I have to say to the noble Lord that this is not good would join us in a national debate about the purpose enough. Most parents expect and want these sensitive of education, perhaps in time we would persuade issues to be covered in a systematic way within the him, too. school curriculum, so perhaps he will be able to give us In the mean time, I am pleased to have had the some good news on this score if nothing else when he opportunity to share our concerns and to give the Minister responds to the debate today. the opportunity to distance himself from the hard line We all want young people to achieve their maximum of some of his departmental colleagues and to endorse academic potential, and in the future a Labour our perspective of the importance of a wider well-being, Government will create an office of educational social and personal role for schools. I beg to move. achievement that will provide a genuinely independent clearing house for research to learn from international 2.20 pm comparisons and share best practice among teachers. We also believe that there are wider and softer social Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, I thank the noble skills which young people should learn in school that Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, for introducing do not have to be measured by exam results. It is a this very important debate and for her interesting view shared in a recent Work Foundation report, speech. This Government’s objectives for children are which identified that the number of young people not very similar to those of her Government, but there is in employment, education or training continues to rise more than one way to skin a cat and we are skinning it with 954,000, or one in six now falling into this category. in a slightly different way. I also point out that “Mary Its report identifies a lack of soft skills such as Had a Little Lamb” is a poem that most three and communication or customer service being increasingly four year-olds I know can recite perfectly well. quoted as a reason why these young people are unable It is a well documented fact that a child who is to find work. These views are also echoed by employers stressed, ill, emotionally disturbed, hungry or who who despair that young people are so ill prepared for does not have good general well-being will not be a the world of work. John Cridland, the CBI director- good learner and is very unlikely to fulfil his or her general, has criticised the Government’s obsession educational potential. It is also accepted that those with GCSE grades, arguing that it encourages short-term who do not fulfil that potential are less likely to lead cramming and frustrates teachers because it stops happy and fulfilled adult lives, and certainly will not them delivering an inspirational classroom experience. contribute as much to the general economy as they We share the view that good teaching by enthusiastic, might have done. Therefore, I am sure that no one will motivated teachers lies at the heart of effective learning. disagree that we need to focus carefully on how well-being In the end it is the teachers not the lessons that people can be achieved. remember most about their schooldays. That is why it Parents, of course, are the prime players in ensuring is important to value the workforce in a way that is their child’s health and happiness, but schools play a often overlooked by this Government and to empower pivotal role, especially where parents do not carry out it to be more creative in the way lessons are taught. their role as well as possible, for whatever reason. Creativity should be at the centre of school life for However, we must not expect too much of schools; I teachers and young people, but increasingly schools agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, on that. are failing to nurture the creative talents of young No school, however caring and professional, can take people and we are losing global market share in the the place of a loving, caring parent. I congratulate the crucial creative industry sector as a result. As Steve Government on the measures they are taking to offer Jobs of Apple said so eloquently: support to parents and to extend and improve the “The Macintosh turned out so well because the people working quality and flexibility of free nursery education offered on it were musicians, artists, poets and historians who also to very young children. I welcome the fact that they happened to be excellent computer scientists”. have brought forward to this September the offer of Not all creativity can be measured by exams and free nursery education to disadvantaged two year-olds not every child wants to sit an exam in a creative in some areas. subject that they enjoy. There has to be space within As we all know, children are born with their brains the school timetable for children to pursue wider incompletely developed. Some experts have called babies interests such as music, drama and art. However, the “the external foetus” because of the great amount of reality is that these subjects are being squeezed from development that happens outside the mother’s body the curriculum. We believe that our approach to joined-up in the first three years of life. Good-quality nursery children’s services, including schools, was the right education contributes enormously to a child’s emotional, approach in the past and our childcare commission, social, physical and intellectual development. Therefore, bringing together shadow Cabinet members from across when talking about the contribution of schools, we the departments, will explore how we can learn from must not forget what has gone before. the past and provide even more effective integrated The primary purpose of schools is the education of children’s services for the future. their pupils, but we should educate our children for a In this context, we will continue to make the case life, not just for a job. Schools help to develop citizens, for a wider role for education in contributing to the husbands, wives, friends and parents—not just employees, well-being, personal and social needs of young people, employers or academics. Indeed, employees, employers 1463 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1464 and academics are all those other things, too. Therefore, I ask my noble friend the Minister whether I look to schools to get the balance right between schools will be allowed to use their pupil premium to fostering the health and well-being of children and provide the rich experiences that all children need to developing their intellects. In the search for high academic develop into self-confident young adults, as long as standards, there is a danger of focusing too much on they can demonstrate a link between the use of this the child’s intellectual and skills development at the money and better performance by the most deprived expense of their well-being and emotional maturity. children. Sometimes it is extra-curricular activities That is a self-defeating strategy. that have the most effect on these qualities. Outdoor I heard an interesting interview on Radio 4 the pursuits, sport, music and the other arts, and heritage other day with a spokeswoman from the CBI. She experiences and activities can all contribute. It would criticised schools for not turning out young people be a pity if, when a school is monitored on its use of who were prepared for today’s workplace. She did not the pupil premium, the range of activities for which complain about the number of GCSEs or vocational extra money could be paid were too narrow. We rightly qualifications they had. She asked for life skills. She leave the decisions to the head and teachers, but they said that business and industry needs young people need guidance on the scope of the activities that would who have self-confidence, emotional maturity, the ability be acceptable to achieve the outcomes that we want. to work in a team, to negotiate and to compromise, Finally, I will say a word about the Government’s and who are punctual and conscientious, have creativity announcement today of a consultation on how we and flexibility of thought, et cetera. That was not the measure and address child poverty, because it is relevant first time I had heard such a plea from business to the debate. There is a clear link between deprivation leaders—it is fairly common. So where are we going and poor attainment at school, which must be addressed wrong? effectively. Ironically, as general incomes fall, the number Noble Lords will know how keen I am on statutory of children in relative poverty will decrease, even though personal, social, health and economic education. My not one child’s life will have been improved. The enthusiasm for it is undiminished. I have talked to the Government do not want to be judged on such an noble Baroness, Lady Massey, about why I could not anomaly. We want to do better and we will, despite the support her amendment, and I think that she understands. financial problems that we face. I hope that all parties I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, that such will engage constructively with the consultation in the barbs are self-defeating. We have a duty to deliver this interests of the children we want to help, and I hope information, and the opportunity to develop skills in that my noble friend the Minister will confirm that the these areas, to every child. This should be done by Government will welcome such engagement from all high-quality specialists who are trained to do the job. who have something useful to say. Only then will we avoid the current postcode lottery in the quality of provision, and raise the standard overall. I have never felt that we should prescribe how schools 2.29 pm should do this, preferring to leave it to their professional Lord Wills: My Lords, I congratulate my noble judgment. Every child should be entitled to have it friend Lady Jones on giving your Lordships the delivered to a high standard. opportunity to discuss some of the fundamental challenges There is much good practice. Some schools have facing our education system. I hope there will be PSHE elements as fundamental parts of their ethos general agreement on the proposition that schools can and of everything that happens in them. Some have make an invaluable contribution to the well-being and specialised teachers, and work with qualified people personal and social needs of young people. I hope that from outside the school to deliver elements of their there will also be general agreement that, as my noble programme. Others use some of the plethora of good- friend said, the introduction by the previous Government quality materials available to general class teachers. of personal, social, health and economic education Many ensure that every lesson, throughout the curriculum, was a valuable addition to the curriculum. Therefore, fosters these qualities and abilities in their pupils, not the outcome of the Government’s review, when it just special PSHE lessons. Some schools have adopted finally emerges, will be important. Judging from what UNICEF’s wonderful Rights Respecting Schools the Schools Minister, Mr Nick Gibb MP, said last year programme, which fosters democracy and mutual respect when announcing the review—that children “can benefit in schools, both of which contribute to well-being. enormously from PSHE education”—it seems that the Children who have a meaningful input into decisions Government may at least pay lip service to its importance that affect them are usually happy. and its value. However, in considering how to proceed, It is important that the Government should make it I hope that the Government will make resources available clear that they expect schools to do this and that they to schools so that they can deliver whatever will be will measure success not just on the number of A to asked of them. C grades at GCSE but on the way in which schools The national curriculum, for all its well rehearsed foster well-being. Therefore, Ofsted plays a pivotal merits, has over time proved an irresistible temptation role. Schools and teachers are only human and will for Ministers to pursue their pet interests without deliver the things on which they are measured. Parents always thinking through all the consequences for schools. expect schools to be happy places for their children to The present Ministers seem to be no exception. I make be, especially in the primary years. However, somehow the exception of my noble friend Lady Morris, who the expectation often disappears in later years unless will be speaking later in the debate, who was an parents understand the link between well-being and outstanding Schools Minister and an outstanding academic success. Many of them do, of course. Secretary of State. 1465 Schools[LORDS] Schools 1466

[LORD WILLS] and many parents would welcome shorter holidays. If There are always compelling arguments for changing we want improvement in educational outcomes, I can what is taught and how it is taught. Temptation is ever see no good reason against lengthening the school present for Ministers. Schools are now being told, for year, apart from resourcing it. Has the Minister’s example, that they need to do better with basic numeracy department done any research into the returns from and literacy; that they need to give young people a such an investment? richer account of our national story; that they need to The Minister may well argue that the new freedoms encourage greater take-up of foreign languages; that the Government are giving to schools will enable them they need to stimulate more interest in maths and to meet these challenges—and so they may—but they science; that they need to pay more attention to inculcating can never be a complete solution. Our education system the soft skills that are increasingly important for employers; is one of the most important forces that bind us and that they must not overlook the importance of the together as a nation. If the Government abdicate from humanities in producing well-rounded citizens. their responsibilities to ensure an appropriate curriculum, Schools are being asked to deliver all this in the face an effective pedagogy with agreed outcomes and, crucially, of profound societal change which makes the task of adequate resources to deliver all this, the result will teaching complex and demanding in a way that it was inevitably be uneven provision of varying quality—and not a generation ago. Young people are exposed from those who are likely to suffer most from this uneven an early age to an unprecedented amount of information provision, whatever the pupil premium will deliver, are and influences from a wide range of authorities. All the most disadvantaged, those young people who have this amplifies peer pressure in an unprecedented way. most need of a good education to get a better start in This clearly creates new and demanding challenges life. Such an abdication of responsibility by government for teachers. For example, the quickest way to secure a can never be acceptable. dramatic improvement in GCSE results would be to Schools can make an invaluable contribution to the get boys to do as well as girls. However, there is a well-being and personal and social needs of young stubborn and intractable gender gap, with girls people, but only if government enables them to do so. outperforming boys across the curriculum. This applies, I hope the Minister can reassure us today that this to varying extents, across almost every social class, Government will not walk away from their responsibilities region and ethnic group. The precise reasons for this to do so. are unclear, but what is clear is that a significant cause must lie in societal change, which teachers are having 2.35 pm to address on top of all the frequent and extensive changes that politicians demand of them. The Lord Bishop of Chester: My Lords, you would expect me to make a contribution to this welcome Tackling these challenges might not be the problem debate from the perspective of church schools. However, it is for so many schools if sufficient resources of time those who are expecting a learned discourse on sex and teachers were available, but they are not. Education, education from these Benches will be disappointed. like everywhere in the public sector, is enduring tightening Some of my fellow bishops are much better qualified budgets which are not going to ease at any time soon. to speak on such matters. Apart from budgetary pressures, there is the problem While the church school movement has always given of trying to meet all these demands within an institutional a proper emphasis to the three Rs, and is valued as framework which has changed too slowly to meet the such by parents and educational authorities, church new demands on it. The exam system, for example, is schools have always aimed for a wider development of still based on the flawed premise that young people all character in young people—the well-rounded and mature, emotionally and intellectually, at the same thoughtful young people to whom the noble Baroness, rate, and so they are all due, more or less, to take Lady Jones, referred in her excellent opening speech. It exams at the same time. A system which allowed and is the notion of character as a virtue that encompasses encouraged young people to take exams as soon as the well-being, personal and social needs of which the they were ready to do so would create valuable flexibility Motion speaks. which could help meet some of the challenges faced by Church schools would also wish to include a reference schools. to the spiritual and moral development of young Again, for all the waves of reforms launched by people as being an intrinsic aspect of being human. To Minister after Minister to the curriculum, to the exam be a human being is unavoidably to be a moral agent, system and to school structures, far too little attention for good or for ill. We see the spiritual and moral has been paid to methods of teaching. Schools still education of children as more than merely religious rely too much on the teacher acting as a sage on the education as such, although it has a part in it. A stage even though new technologies and learning proper excellence in religious education is of course programmes could enable more flexible approaches, one of the aims of church schools, but in the broader tailored more to the needs of individual students, with spiritual agenda. This is also implied in the Motion. teachers acting more as a guide by the side. This is not Perhaps I may say a word about a subject which has to replace whole class teaching but to enrich it. been much discussed in recent years but which has not A longer school year would create more space for been referred to yet in the debate—that is, the role of all the subjects that merit inclusion in the curriculum. schools in promoting community cohesion. Since 2007, It would allow more intensive teaching of core subjects; it has been a statutory requirement on maintained create the space to tackle the difficult transition between schools to promote community cohesion. There has key stage 2 and key stage 3, where many pupils regress; been some criticism of church schools that they may 1467 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1468 work in the other direction by concentrating upon a My diocese is in partnership with the University of particular section of society or by approaching education Chester in sponsoring an academy that will replace from a particular direction and point of view. two failing secondary schools in a particularly difficult Fortunately, we have been able to commission an area. There is also potentially to be a new free school independent report into the issue which looked at the based at Chester cathedral with a music specialism. So comparative outcomes of different types of schools in the term “faith” school now embraces a wider variety promoting community cohesion. This has been possible of partnerships and activities, which is thoroughly because Ofsted is now required to report explicitly welcome. upon this. We commissioned a report from Professor We also should not overlook the contribution of David Jesson of the University of York, using Ofsted the independent sector. A lot of independent schools data. The report was published a couple of years ago have either a faith foundation or to one degree or now and is entitled Strong schools for strong communities. another a faith character. The work of chaplains in It demonstrated that at primary level there is little independent schools is often overlooked, but typically difference in the outcomes of different types of schools, they are regarded as significant people in the school although church schools are as good as or better than community because they help the community to look other primary schools. However, at the vital secondary beyond the narrow academic focus. The thread that level, interestingly, the report showed that faith schools holds all this together is a commitment to the common had a noticeably better outcome in the Ofsted report good. Faith schools may have different outlooks—Roman conclusions in promoting community cohesion. The Catholic schools tend to put a slightly closer focus on report states that, nurturing Roman Catholics, which is understandable— “there are relatively few Community or Foundation schools that but, as I say, the thread is a commitment to the are graded anywhere near those of Faith schools”, common good. That is what really counts. The common in promoting community cohesion. good lies, as we have already discovered in this debate, Ofsted also reviews the performance of schools in beyond a narrow academic focus. the promotion of equality of opportunity and the Some noble Lords will have read in the press or elimination of discrimination. Professor Jesson, in the heard on the radio discussions about Martin Amis’s report, also reviewed those outcomes in relation to new novel, which apparently is an exploration of the different types of schools. The report states: triviality of much of modern society. We live in a “Here again the contrast between Faith schools and Community world that has a tendency to be too dumbed down, schools is clear. Faith schools achieve higher gradings on this and that can easily affect our education. Alongside aspect of their contribution to their pupils and their community”, academic excellence, you need the soft skills we have than other types of schools. I hope that those who, for heard about, the emotional intelligence that used to be understandable reasons on the surface, are drawn to nurtured primarily in families. With the decline of potential criticism of faith schools will pay attention family life for various reasons, more pressure is put on to these hard research findings in this area. schools, so it is important that in the future schools Why is this the case? It is because schools are most should look at the soft elements, including emotional effective when they avoid a sausage-factory mentality, intelligence in education. when they are clear about their own distinctive values and the position from which they approach the task of education. That does not exclude others, but typically 2.44 pm nurtures a shared sense of belonging to the wider Lord Layard: My Lords, if parents are asked what community. When we know where we come from, we they want a school to do for their children, they can more easily reach out and engage with other almost always say two things: first they say, “I want groups and sections in society, be that locally, nationally my child to learn”, and then they say, “I want my child or, equally important, internationally and globally. to be happy”. The question is this: are those in conflict? Let me offer a final quotation from the report: The scientific evidence is absolutely clear: they are not “Promoting community cohesion is not about diluting what in conflict. In order to learn you need to be happy, we believe in in order to create a pallid mush of ‘niceness’. Nor is with peace of mind and inner calm. Einstein once said it about trying to make all schools reflect exactly the economic or that to make scientific discoveries, you need to be cultural make-up of the nation”. happy, and the same is true of children. Here is a There has been a temptation in recent decades to recent analysis of a sample of American eighth graders adopt a sausage-factory mentality in relation to maintained who were tested at the beginning of the year on their education, so there is a lot of promise in contemporary IQ and their resilience. At the end of the year they developments. were given their academic grades and, as a predictor I have spoken rather generally about “church” or of those grades, resilience was twice as important as “faith” schools, and I believe that it is right to do so, IQ. You have to have the character as well as the brain. but an interesting development over recent years has Fortunately we now have a great deal more evidence been the emergence of all sorts of partnerships and a about how to produce resilient, happy young people greater variety in the sector itself. I welcome the range who do not engage in risky or anti-social behaviours. of schools now sponsored or supported by different There have been hundreds of randomised controlled faith communities and different combinations. In my trials of highly structured programmes covering social own diocese we now have joint Anglican and Roman and emotional learning, sex and relationships education Catholic primary and secondary schools, whereas when and healthy living. I shall set out a meta-analysis of I became bishop, we had none at all. Often the churches the effects of those programmes, each of which took themselves are now in partnership with other institutions. about 18 hours of the child’s time. The effect on the 1469 Schools[LORDS] Schools 1470

[LORD LAYARD] should become much better at identifying mental health emotional well-being of children was something like problems among their children. In fact, the Good 11 percentile points up—from 50 to 61. The effect on Childhood Inquiry that I was involved with suggested behaviour was an extra 11 percentile points, and the piloting a questionnaire tool to be used at periodic effect on academic achievement was an extra 11 percentile intervals over a child’s life, which would have the effect points. These programmes are working on every not only of helping to identify children who were in dimension. So let us abandon the idea of a conflict trouble—and many emotionally disturbed children do between the objectives and ask schools to do exactly not show it; they are not always behaviourally disturbed— what parents want them to do. What a surprising but of motivating schools to take the outcome of suggestion. well-being much more seriously because they were What this would mean is complicated, so I want to actually measuring it. make just three points. First, I turn to the whole Of course, once a child has been identified as school approach. Obviously, the whole school has to having a mental health problem, there must be facilities commit itself to making the happiness of its children available to treat them. I was appalled to read this one of its prime objectives. This should be a decision morning that half of all mental health services are that is made after a great deal of debate involving experiencing budget cuts at the moment, in many teachers, parents and governors. I belong to a movement cases of 25% or more. This is an outrage. This is called Action for Happiness, which is preparing a code obviously such a big area of unmet need already in for schools that might wish to take a step of this kind. our country. We also know that mental illness among One would hope that every school will make the children has increased since the 1970s. A nationally happiness of its children one of its prime objectives. representative survey has been conducted four times, That means going beyond what all schools are now supported by a local survey in the west of Scotland. expected to do—anti-bullying, anti-racism, anti-drugs—by Both these surveys found that there is twice as much trying to build up positive attitudes and adopting a emotional and behavioural difficulty among 15 year-olds positive lifestyle that children can enjoy, including as there was in the 1970s. The reasons given in subsequent replacing the desire to pass exams with the love of questioning are, not surprisingly, more anxiety about learning. looks, possessions and, of course, exams. Secondly, I turn to explicit training in life skills, This brings us back to the question of whether we which is a particular part of the curriculum that is can shift our schools from exam factories to schools otherwise known as PSHE. Of course, this can be for life. I think we really have to do that and I really done very badly or very well. Undoubtedly, there are hope that the Minister can persuade his Secretary of inspired teachers who can think it through for themselves, State to open his powerful mind to that issue. but these are very difficult subjects to teach. They can hardly just be given to someone who has a gap in their 2.52 pm timetable. It is easy to teach these subjects in a way that makes no difference. We should not live in a Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer: My Lords, I Pollyanna world where we think that all this is easy declare an interest as a board member of UNICEF and can be carried out successfully. It needs a great UK. I am very pleased that the noble Baroness, Lady deal of thought and application. For example, the Massey of Darwen, is going to speak this afternoon—as evaluation of the secondary SEAL programme, the I would expect that she would, with her expertise—because only part of the programme that has been scientifically I hope that she is going to talk about all her work with evaluated, shows that it makes no difference to anything. UNICEF on the Rights Respecting Schools Awards That is an important finding. The reason given—I and the positive effect of that programme, of which must say that I foresaw this—was that the programme she has been such a tremendous champion. I actually was not sufficiently structured to ensure that ordinary want to talk about food. teachers could be guaranteed to achieve a result. We I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of need to rely on much more structured, manualised Whitchurch, on introducing this debate, and on her programmes that have been scientifically evaluated to Question yesterday, which gave me some useful pointers show that they make a difference. Perhaps I may on what I wanted to concentrate on today. The noble declare an interest. I belong to a group that is aiming Baroness was a little bit down on some of the achievements to put together a set of programmes from the hundreds of this Government. For example, I would point to my I mentioned earlier in my remarks which could constitute honourable friend Sarah Teather’s tremendous the complete PSHE secondary school curriculum. If achievement in ensuring that the UN Convention on that was shown to work, we would be able to develop the Rights of the Child is really embedded and understood PSHE as a proper subject in schools and as a specialism not only in her department but across government. within the PGCE. I want to concentrate on food because the quality I shall go back for a moment to the fundamental and amount of food and how it is eaten has the most aim of all these programmes, which is to give children fundamental effect on children’s well-being. It is obvious: control over their minds. The idea is that we can all if you are hungry, you are just not able to learn. As a gain more control over our minds and our thoughts, result of sugar-intense foods and drinks—not just which is particularly important because changing our sugar as we understand it from cane or beet but also thoughts can change our feelings and our behaviour. the epidemic of corn syrup that has been pumped in to This brings me to my last point, which is about every sort of food, whether it is pizza, sausages or mental health. This should obviously be a part of the baked beans—children are becoming obese at an earlier basic training programme for every teacher and schools and earlier age. 1471 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1472

As also came out in the Question yesterday, in However, in the mean time I hope the Minister can the comment made by the noble Lord, Lord assure me that the Government’s priority is to increase Ramsbotham—he was referring to young offenders free school meal take-up among the eligible and ensure but it applies to children too—young people are unable that all the schoolchildren whose families are in receipt to control their behaviour and mood if they have eaten of universal credit, when it comes in, will be eligible foods particularly high in sugar, caffeine or some for free school meals. Can he assure me that the additives that are implicated in bad behaviour. The introduction of universal credit will not mean that point that a change of diet produces dramatic results fewer children will qualify for free school meals? in children’s ability to learn and concentrate is very The Food for Life Partnership has been working for important. some time on the issue of nutrition. According to its In Answer to the Question tabled by the noble research, twice as many primary schools received an Baroness, Lady Jones, the Minister referred to, Ofsted rating of outstanding following their participation in the Food for Life Partnership’s work. School nutritional “inculcating extremely good habits of eating”.—[Official Report, standards are highly important, as is Let’s Get Cooking, 13/6/12; col. 1336.] which runs the country’s largest network of cooking That is the key because it is at the primary age that we clubs. If you want to enthuse pupils and parents, have a responsibility to make sure that those habits cooking clubs are a great way to do it. that set children up well for life are achieved. We are fighting quite a battle now because we are paying a Baroness King of Bow: I thank the noble Baroness very heavy price for the loss of school kitchens and for giving way and commend her on an excellent traditional cooked lunches that swept across the UK speech. Is she aware that a third of academies have in the 1980s. Many of today’s parents never really described school nutritional standards as a burden? formed those healthy eating habits and now we are Does she agree that the real burden is the heart disease, expecting schools to be at the forefront of trying to diabetes and cancer and other diseases that will afflict change diet, eating habits and attitudes to food. our children? Does she think that the Government However, there are some bright spots. We do not could increase the urgency with which those nutritional want to change habits back to the 20th century—that standards are introduced for all schools, including was not such a golden moment either—but to adapt academies? them to 21st century possibilities. On the plus side, I point to the great rise of ethnic foods such as lentils, Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer: Yes, I think curries and couscous. I am sure that your Lordships that children in all forms of education should expect can remember when garlic was an exotic food and the same standards to be applied to them when it there was a pretty boring range of vegetables. We have comes to what is deemed to be healthy food. come a long way from that time and there is now a I commend the work being done to encourage world of spices and herbs that can make carbohydrates children to grow their own food. Making the connection such as a bowl of rice much more interesting and between where food comes from and the effort that appealing. goes into producing it has other effects such as making It would not be right to talk about school food sure that less is wasted. without mentioning all the organisations that are making a tremendous difference: the School Food Trust, School 3.01 pm Food Matters, the Children’s Food Campaign, the Baroness Morris of Yardley: My Lords, I am glad to Local Authority Caterers Association and Garden be able to contribute to this debate and congratulate Organic. Earlier today I attended the launch of Going my noble friend Lady Jones on bringing it to the Hungry? Young People’s Experiences of Free School Chamber. I do not think that anybody is going to Meals, a piece of research by the Child Poverty Action speak against improving the well-being of children or Group and the British Youth Council. It reinforced meeting their personal and social needs. I shall wait to what I had already heard, that out of 7.5 million the end of the debate to see whether any noble Lord schoolchildren there are 2.2 million living in poverty, does—perhaps the Minister will. However, it is an area of whom 1.5 million are eligible for free school means of contention, where there is genuine debate and some but only 1 million actually receive them. Half a million uneasiness about how we are progressing. The crucial children are missing out and that really is a disgrace. I thing is not to persuade the world, those in the educational also strongly support the Children’s Society Fair and system or politicians that those things are an important Square campaign. part of education; it is to try to understand why we do There are lots of reasons why free school meal not do it very well and to overcome those barriers. take-up is not what it should be. One of these is However, the world has moved on and we now have stigma, and take-up has been proved to be much a better understanding of the consequences of not improved where schools operate a cashless system that getting this right, which in some way increases our anonymises pupils who are on free school meals. A support for it. I shall refer to three areas, two of them really decent aspiration for any Government would be being pretty obvious and the third being the point that when the nation can afford it, all primary age made by the noble Lord, Lord Layard. First, there is a children—at least—receive a free school lunch. It should body of knowledge about sex education, drugs education, be as much a part of education as teachers, playgrounds physical education and physical well-being that needs and learning materials. It is very strange that food to be given to young people. That comes under this became the optional extra in the education system. area of learning. There is a set of skills and attitudes— 1473 Schools[LORDS] Schools 1474

[BARONESS MORRIS OF YARDLEY] likely, to leave it to schools to develop curriculum and resilience, teamwork, self-esteem and confidence—which pedagogy—the messages that they are giving are not children and young people need to develop if they are about this area of teaching. I do not have much a to do well in the world. We have come to accept during problem with poetry; I do not have much of a problem the past few years that schools have a role to play in with literacy or numeracy; but I look at the utterances that, because for some children all those things are of Ministers and cannot find the speeches. I cannot developed at home. Some children would get all that see the press releases; I cannot read the leaked documents knowledge and all those skills without going to school, in the Sunday Telegraph and the Daily Mail that talk but the truth is that many do not and everyone could about this area of the curriculum. Quite simply, schools contribute to good-quality education in that field. I and teachers get the message inadvertently—because I accept the point made by the right reverend Prelate the do not believe that the Government take this view—that Bishop of Chester that, years ago, the church called it it is not valued. “character”; it was the same debate. We are at a vital time where it is for the Government As my noble friend Lord Layard pointed out, we to help us make the decision on whether we build on have become stuck because we have seen these things this growing body of knowledge, understanding what as competing forces—it has been an either/or. We have we did not know 10 or 15 years ago, and put some wanted either education for qualifications or a rounded support in there for us to do better, or we go backwards education. We have pitted one against the other with and turn our back on the progress that has been made. terrible consequences when we come to evaluate our I look for three things from the Minister: first, an performance. What is new is the body of evidence and acknowledgement of what the research is telling us research that shows those approaches not as an either/or and how the Government might build on it; secondly, but as interdependent. If we can get social and emotional a clear signal, which the Government may give in any literacy right, children will improve their academic way they wish, that this area of teaching is valued and skills as well. More than that, we are now developing a that schools are expected to do it, with the impact that pedagogy and ways of working in school that are it can have right across the academic curriculum as beginning to lead to progress in how we teach SEL well as in its own right being explained to them; and effectively in the way that we have been trying to make thirdly—and this is where I am most likely to disagree progress in how to teach literacy and numeracy effectively with the Minister—the Government should provide in years past. The pedagogy in this area is therefore some sort of infrastructure. If they do not like the slowly catching up. The more it catches up, the more structure that we had, that is fine, but they need powerful is the case for making it an integral part of something, because all the evidence and all the experience what we would do. of past years tells us that, when the going gets tough, I agree with my noble friend Lord Layard about the this gets left out. It deserves better than that. research coming out of America—Joseph Durlak and Roger Weissberg have done some excellent randomised control studies. I disagree with them slightly on the 3.08 pm social, emotional, and academic learning programme. Baroness Massey of Darwen: My Lords, it is always With the primary SEAL programme, the evidence a great pleasure to follow my noble friend Lady Morris. about the effects of that sort of learning on academic I found myself nodding at almost every sentence she attainment and well-being is far better. spoke. This is a very important time. We have a choice: I am delighted that my noble friend Lady Jones has either build on these changes which are taking root given us the opportunity to debate these important and try to take what we can from them in delivering a issues today. I shall cover and echo some of the good quality of education; or ignore those seeds that concerns of other speakers and, as the noble Baroness, are shooting through. That is the crux of this debate. Lady Miller, anticipated, I shall refer briefly to Rights The Government of whom I was a member could be Respecting Schools as a trustee of UNICEF. criticised for being top-heavy and too instructive, but Research and observation by teachers has long we tried to put in place a structure on which these shown that if a child lacks emotional and social strength things could develop. Whether it was the PSHE and does not have protective factors with which to programme, compulsory citizenship, SEAL, the sports encourage good physical and emotional health, and to partnerships, the creative partnerships or training teachers, resist negative influences, then he or she will perform it was a structure which allowed those things to flourish. less well at school. My great worry is this: I am seeing that structure The Joseph Rowntree Foundation report of 2010 decline and fall away. I do not think that this area of pointed out that young people were more likely to do pedagogy and effective teaching is sufficiently strong well at GCSE if they had belief in their ability, could to withstand that. The danger comes from two things examine their own behaviour and actions, avoided that the Government are doing. First, if they hold true risky behaviour and did not experience bullying. Pupil to their pledge to let teachers decide about curriculum well-being enhances academic achievement. As the and teaching methods, the risk is that this area of right reverend Prelate said, it is not just about being school activity is not well enough rooted to withstand nice; it is something a bit firmer—my noble friend that. Too many schools, often those which lack confidence Lord Layard echoed that. or are in areas where children are disadvantaged and As many have said, parents and families are behind in basic skills, feel that they do not have time vital in providing the foundations for well-being. for these things. The second risk is that—even if the Sadly, some families do not do that. Some children Government do not keep to their pledge, as seems enter our schools deprived—materially, socially and 1475 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1476 academically—and schools have a hard job to make that simply ticked off topics such as diet, safety, sexual up that deficit. To their credit, many do. Families relationships, drugs and alcohol. That should back up cannot provide all that is necessary to foster social what is already going on in school, plug gaps and skills. Being in a school sports team, singing together, reinforce the development approach to learning for playing in a music or drama group or creating a small every child. business help social skills and self-esteem. Highly academic I go back to organisation and structure. Schools schools, such as Eton or Rugby, recognise that there is which take educational well-being seriously often have more to being successful than learning by rote. The a senior member of staff to co-ordinate its aspects deputy head of Rugby School said: across the school: in the taught curriculum, in policies, “As a parent, you don’t buy into a school like Rugby just for in activities such as the school council and in out-of-school the academic education. You also want your child to develop activities. Such a person can and does work with staff skills for life. Personal social and health education is an important to deliver structured programmes. A school in Cheshire, part of how the school measures that”. the Sir William Stanier Community School, has created I am very disappointed that the Government appear champions in each area that PSHE covers. That has to have decided that personal, social and health education, motivated staff. Some schools have their own teacher PSHE, will not be mandatory in schools. It is not the training programmes. Some have a PSHE room where only thing that develops well-being, as I shall discuss the school ethos and positive messages of that behaviour in a moment, but if the Government gave PSHE are reinforced. The Frederick Gough School in Scunthorpe status, that would send a message that this area needs has adopted a PSHE Association school charter and focus and organisation and is important for all children. says that PSHE is regularly rated by parents and PSHE would provide informed decisions about resisting pupils as the most valued non-academic subject. pressure and working in groups. From that core, PSHE could radiate other aspects of well-being in school—for The Rights Respecting Schools evaluation said that example on school policies such as bullying or school school leavers were unable to identify specific investments meals and the work of school councils and assemblies—in that they had made in the Rights Respecting Schools subjects across the curriculum and in programmes programme because it is embedded in the school rather such as UNICEF’s Rights Respecting Schools. than separated from their other work. So it should be for the school’s contribution to personal and social I give an example. Bullying could be a focus of well-being and development. It should be embedded discussion in PSHE; it could be discussed by the in the whole school. All children can benefit from such school council; it could form part of an assembly; and an input from school. In particular, those children it could be taken up in English or drama with a story who do not have the advantage of caring and respectful about bullying or writing and role play about bullying. homes may be encouraged to see life differently. It is It is not just a body of knowledge, it is about the an issue of equality as well as education. process of education and decision-making. Schools deliver education for well-being and personal and I do not think that the Government understand social needs in many ways. This delivery, like any what personal, social and health education is about. school subject, should develop from simple concepts The Minister may; I know that the noble Baroness, to more complex ones as the child matures. One-offs Lady Walmsley, does; but it is not about skinning cats on diet, alcohol, relationships, safety and so on are not it is about nurturing cats. The Government are placing enough. They need to be reinforced year-on-year. That too much emphasis on topics and factual information is why organisation is so important. and not enough on whole school processes which foster the well-being of children. I think that they are Many schools see the sense of that and are involved nervous about sex education, not recognising that this in the Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education is about relationships and well understood by most Association’s charter programme, which draws on effective faith groups. I do not understand why there is such a practice of PSHE as described in Ofsted reports and delay in producing a curriculum review including PSHE. evidence from schools. A key to the success of programmes We have examples from research, good practice, inspection to foster well-being and personal, social and health and teachers of what helps pupils achieve in schools. education is their organisation in schools. Good Children need a firm basis of confidence, self-esteem organisation depends on school leadership taking it and support, all inherent in a school’s contribution to seriously and recognising that well-being is informed well-being. I look forward to the Minister’s response by self-evaluation and must be included in the school to some of the issues raised today. action plan. No child should be left to experience random, disorganised or non-existent education in personal and social development. 3.16 pm A positive ethos in school is, of course, also important: Baroness Benjamin: My Lords, I thank the noble an ethos where bad behaviour is difficult and strategies Baroness, Lady Jones, for securing this important implemented; where kindness and respect between debate because, according to the saying, school days everyone in the school is considered important; and are the best days of your life. But I have always where boundaries for conduct are clear and explicit. It thought that it should be changed to, school days are is all very well to say that a school should have regard the most important days of your life, because the to well-being. It is another matter to make it a focus in school experience can either make or break you. the school. Childhood lasts a lifetime and the early foundation That is why I believe that there should be a core stages are the most important of a child’s life. That is subject of PSHE in schools and that it should not be when the billions of brain cells are forming connections, isolated. I would be unhappy if a school had a programme so good nursery and primary school teaching is essential 1477 Schools[LORDS] Schools 1478

[BARONESS BENJAMIN] right; to learn to resist temptation; to say no to bullying, to the foundation of a child’s development. That is the gang culture or drugs and alcohol; to have empathy time when they need the best teachers. A nursery or for others, and to get a better understanding about primary school teacher is just as important as a university morality, integrity and honesty. All this should be lecturer; they do the same core job. the foundation of every school’s philosophy, giving Teaching and learning should not be a box-ticking children the ability to make good long-term decisions exercise for either teacher or pupil. We should be in their relationships and lifestyles, which in turn they helping children to develop their problem-solving skills, will pass on to their children. It is an indirect way of to digest and analyse information, to be creative and giving them the parenting skills that they might need original and to use their imagination through exposure one day. Schools need to be encouraged to make space to music, singing, dance, art, drama and poetry, as in their timetables to offer these opportunities or to well as sports and exercise. Self-discipline is also important, integrate them into their lessons—and to feel free and but that comes with the confidence children gain from able to do so, not to be inhibited or feel pressured to these types of experiences in the place they spend most do otherwise. of their time—school. These may seem simple concepts but so many children I loved my school days. Starting back in Trinidad, have never had the opportunity to think in a philosophical where I was born, we sang the national anthem at the way, to discuss moral issues or to project their imagination beginning of each school day. It gave me a sense of into the future and envisage what their lives may be national pride, which has served me well. Seeing young like if they take a particular course of action. This is children waving their union jacks with pride during why we should seriously consider the teaching of life the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee, it occurred to me that skills and encourage young children to explore basic perhaps we should start each school day with the philosophy. singing of our national anthem so that they have a Good teachers are so important in all this to help sense of national pride embedded in their psyche—because with the well-being and happiness of children, making the feeling of being proud of who you are is the them want to attend school. We as a society must best confidence booster, which in turn helps with demand this but we must also hold teachers in the learning. highest regard. Parents and children must be aware I have spent a great deal of my life visiting schools that teachers deliver the special gift of education, around the country and over the past two decades I which can change lives. The fantastic teachers I meet have witnessed many changes, mostly for the good. when I visit schools are aware of their responsibilities One of the most significant changes I have seen is the to every child in their care and that they must treat way in which schools and those who teach in them each one like a delicate piece of porcelain. However, have adapted to the diverse society that Britain has we must continue to strengthen and develop the training become. Something which has developed from this is of teachers and to continue to raise awareness, in all the way in which schools are nurturing the concept of schools, of children who are in danger of slipping a more tolerant and considerate society. I have for through the net for a variety of reasons. Holistic many years believed that we should, in addition to the teacher training is most important, now more than core curriculum subjects, allow children from a very ever. early age to delve into the psychology of life and Many children in our schools come from dysfunctional encourage them to explore, discuss and develop households, never having any family bonding or fundamental life skills and interpersonal and social attachment, but play therapy can help emotionally skills. Some schools are already doing so. I know a damaged or abused children, as in the work done by head in a deprived area of north London who invites the British Association of Play Therapists. I declare an students in years 5 and 6 to sit around a table in her interest as patron. However, many schools engage study to have lunch with her and discuss current people who have taken a three or four-day part-time affairs—and to hear their views on issues that affect course in play work, believing that they are employing their lives. This helps to develop the children’s social a play therapist, at a much lower salary than they and intellectual skills and build their confidence. would if employing a fully qualified play therapist. A When I am invited to speak in schools, I often use fully qualified play therapist requires a post-graduate the story of “The Three Little Pigs” to demonstrate two-year course in play therapy plus one year for the simple philosophy. I am sure that noble Lords here are MA. To safeguard vulnerable children and to make familiar with the story, so I will not tell it today, but sure nothing is missed from the child’s play, therapy when I tell it to young children I show them through must and should be carried out by people who are the story that to build your life on solid foundation highly trained and skilled in this work. I ask my noble you need to work hard, to do a good job, to think friend to consider setting up a national register of play ahead and analyse the situation—and never to give up. therapists and not just leave it up to local authorities It all helps them to cope with life’s big bad wolf. The or schools to engage play therapists who may not have reaction I get is amazing. Children as young as five the fully registered and necessary qualifications. really get it and it shows how much teachers need We are here to pay tribute to the tremendous work external support from parents, as well as from visiting done in schools and to praise and encourage those writers, artists and musicians. who work there. No system is perfect, but as long as That is why PSHE needs a place at the heart of the we all continue to work together to improve and adapt curriculum. Delivered creatively, it empowers children to the changes in society, we can ensure that our to have the moral courage to stand up for what is children are in good hands at school. 1479 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1480

3.24 pm experience shows that street dance is a very popular form of dance for many young people and a favourite Lord Pendry: My Lords, I too begin by congratulating way to keep fit. the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, on introducing this timely debate. In October 2010, the It is a great shame that we are not using the wonderful Secretary of State for Education made a statement vehicle of dance to engage more young people in sport informing the Youth Sport Trust and others that the while they are at school. A recent survey by the previous Government’s policy on physical education Women’s Sport and Fitness Foundation showed that and sports strategy was to be abandoned and that the only 12% of girls and 25% of boys aged 14 are doing ring-fencing of that strategy was to end by March 2011. as much physical activity as they should be in schools. The excuse was that he wished to encourage more Many of these young people said that the lack of competitive sport in schools by removing many of the options available in school sports turned them off requirements of the previous strategy. doing physical activity, and many, girls in particular, would have preferred to have had less competitive PE We know from those who, unlike the Secretary of options like dance. State, are genuine lovers of sport and know about its I am increasingly concerned that no real consideration benefits just how unpopular and illogical his approach is being given to the availability of wider sport and was, so much so that, following pressure from teachers, fitness activities in schools, including dance. Kate’s parents, sportspeople and others, including Members experience and national statistics prove it. If we are to of this House and the other place, he was forced to get children interested in sport at a young age, schools make a mini-U-turn in December 2010 when his should give them more opportunity with a wider choice department announced that every secondary school of activities and a more flexible approach. As Kate would receive funding up to the end of 2013 for one Prince told me, our duty is to educate children in the day a week of PE teachers’ time to be spent outside the round—their entire body, not just their brain. Alongside classroom. Although this was welcome, his approach academic subjects, that is essential. Activities like dance in October 2010 should never have been undertaken. that are creative and physically demanding help children It was evident that he was completely out of touch express themselves, feel part of the team and valued by with the good work that has been carried out under their peers. Children of the ZooNation Academy get the previous strategy of collaborative planning across the chance to channel their energies towards a positive schools, which was highly praised by Ofsted for improving and exciting goal, rather than spending it on the the capacity of individual schools, quality sport provision streets causing trouble. and strengthening the pathways from school into community sports clubs. Today we must not forget that school sports should be built on more and more, and supported by appropriate Clearly one of those most affected by the Minister’s extracurricular activities being available for our young stance was, and still to some extent is, the Youth Sport people. The Education Select Committee looked at Trust, which has done so much under the leadership of services for young people last year, and reported that the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell of Loughborough, 85% of young people’s waking hours are spent outside to ensure access to high-quality PE in schools and to formal education, yet each year local authorities spend provide for young people to be active and healthy. As 55 times more on formal education than they do on it has pointed out to me, sport helps ensure that young providing services for young people outside the school people make healthy choices as they move into adulthood day. With cuts affecting sports and youth clubs around and provides a framework for aiding their mental the country, there is a real worry that young people development, improving their self-confidence and self- will be deprived of active and fun things to do, both image and enhancing their attainment across the inside and outside their school. curriculum. It seems inconceivable to me and, I am I hope that the Minister will have learnt something sure, to other noble Lords that this Government and from what has been said in today’s debate. I hope that this particular Minister do not recognise the correlation he will be able to give us some encouraging news that between the provision of sport and combating many the Government have learnt something over the past of the problems that face our society today. few years, following the misguided approach of the In the time I have available, I wish to dwell on a current Secretary of State for Education. sporting activity which is very relevant to this debate. However, it is not a sport that I excel in. Just two 3.33 pm weeks ago, I met Kate Prince, the choreographer and founder of the ZooNation Dance Company and Baroness Warnock: My Lords, in July 2011 the ZooNation Academy of Dance. She has done an Office for National Statistics published a paper called extraordinary amount of work to engage young Measuring Children and Young People’s Well-being, people in physical activity. The ZooNation Academy which showed that the belief that they were doing well of Dance works with children as young as four years at school was a crucial factor in the sense that children old to help them get engaged and inspired about from the age of eight upwards have of the quality of dance, music and fitness. The academy, situated in their own lives. Given the many hours that children Islington, brings together young people from many spend at school, as we well know, that is not in the backgrounds and works with them to teach fitness, least surprising. discipline, confidence and teamwork through street I am sure that your Lordships will agree that a good dance. Youngpeople today have wide-ranging interests school is a happy school. More than that, if, at the that we need to recognise if we want keep them crucial age of 14, we could adapt the school curriculum engaged and motivated in sport and education. Kate’s more to the wants and ambitions of the children than 1481 Schools[LORDS] Schools 1482

[BARONESS WARNOCK] highly educational, but are absolutely crucial to the we do at present, in the manner advocated by the development of the child, and to his or her feeling noble Lord, Lord Baker, who is no longer in his place, that he or she can succeed. This is where the happiness we would find that far more children than do at that can be generated by a school really lies: the feeling present had the peculiar satisfaction of believing that that you are doing something at which you can succeed. they could succeed and the feeling that they were The main task of the first years of education must be doing something that was worth doing. Nothing could to enable children both to succeed and to learn to be more central to personal and social well-being than believe that they can. This is the basis of enjoyment. that kind of sense of the worthwhileness of what you The concept of SEN was introduced into legislation are doing. The Minister should give even more attention, in 1981, more than 30 years ago. The inquiry that and I am sure that he is, to the plans for changing preceded the 1981 Act had been expressly forbidden to schools and changing the direction of the curriculum take any account of social deprivation in its consideration at the age of 14. of what were then known as “handicapped children”. I agree entirely with, among other people, the noble This is now practically unbelievable but it was the case. Baroness, Lady Benjamin, that the early stages of Therefore, the concept of educational need seemed to school are crucial. I ask the Minister whether the be the only way of grouping children together when Government could not, even now, rethink the connections they required something beyond what most teachers between the needs that children have at this age. I provided. We have come an enormously long way know that we have been promised an end to the since those days. concept of the statement of educational need by 2013. It is time for us to change our attitude to the I know that the multiple assessments and long delays function of schools, and to put right at the front the to which children are now subjected are to be replaced function of making children believe that they can by a single assessment that will culminate in an education, succeed. We should not designate them as having health and care plan. special educational needs unless they have some specific, That holds some promise. But, in my view, it also sometimes very profound, difficulty that needs a different points to something further, and I would be grateful if kind of education altogether—perhaps different teachers the Minister could tell me what he thinks of this. As with different skills. We should change not only our long ago as 2006, the House of Commons Select attitude but our vocabulary accordingly. Therefore, I Committee on education published a report that was ask the Minister whether the Government will, after highly critical of the present structure and framework all, consider a fresh start in this area, which should be of special educational needs and urged the then completely divorced from party politics. Government to start again and radically rethink the concept of special needs. More recently, in 2010, Ofsted 3.41 pm reported on the inflated numbers of children who were classified as having special educational needs, suggesting Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe: My Lords, I thank that, for various reasons of self-interest, schools were my noble friend Lady Jones for introducing this debate. wrongly so designating children, and sometimes masking As she so eloquently reminded us, children’s well-being incompetent teaching with claims of special educational matters not simply to ensure that they have a good needs among the pupils. childhood but because it provides a solid foundation for their future well-being as adults. As a way to reverse this expensive and ultimately futile and damaging trend, I suggest that the idea of The Good Childhood Report, published earlier this special educational needs, as opposed to other needs, year by the Children’s Society, makes the point that should be dropped altogether—at least for nursery fortunately many children in the UK are happy with and primary school years. Instead, we should conceive their lives. However, substantial numbers of children of the duty of the school as to meet the needs of the do not feel so positive. It says that at any given time child without distinction, by whatever means are available, around 4% of eight year-olds and 14% of 15 year-olds through the skills and the training of teachers, the have low subjective well-being—the term used to describe vigilance of the head and the governors, and, in general, people’s assessment of, or happiness with, their lives as the ethos developed within the school. After all, for a whole. The society points out that children who very young children, every experience is educational. report low levels of happiness are much less likely to For children who are disadvantaged and, above all, for enjoy being at home with their family, to feel safe children who come to school with a poor vocabulary when they are with their friends, to look forward to and poor communication skills, the most crucial need going to school, to like the way they look, and to feel is that they should be enabled to develop these skills positive about their future. The evidence shows that a and thus to learn. Of course there will emerge—and low level of subjective well-being is associated with a probably will already have emerged—children whose wide range of social and personal problems. These special needs include specialised teaching of one kind include poor mental health through increased depression, or another; children who are perhaps profoundly and social isolation through increased loneliness and the multiply disabled, and children who genuinely prove likelihood of victimisation, and involvement in risky to be dyslexic. These children will emerge and can have behaviours such as running away from home and specialised teaching. The rest of the children do not sexual exploitation. need to be scrutinised to see whether they have special The Children’s Society report is part of a growing educational needs. They have special needs. They need body of evidence about children’s well-being that is to be taught to communicate, to play, and to take part based on responses from children themselves. This in dancing, music and drama. All these things are was given greater impetus here in the UK by UNICEF’s 1483 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1484

2007 report, which placed the UK at the bottom of a pathways in the foundation years? What assurances league table of child well-being in 21 industrialised can he give us that there will indeed be continuing nations. Although there has been some progress, the investment in graduate-level training in early education UK remains within the lower rankings compared with and childcare, and that early years education professionals other OECD countries. It hardly needs saying that will become a central part of the remit of the new education is core to this. All the studies show that Teaching Agency? learning is closely intertwined with well-being. The We can all agree with the Department for Education’s school environment, as a context of learning, plays an aim that children should start school healthy, happy, important role in children’s social, emotional and communicative, sociable, curious, active, and ready behavioural well-being. and equipped for the next phase of life and learning. This afternoon, I will focus on the contribution of The same aim should hold, of course, for when they schools to young people’s well-being at both the entry leave school. Schools have a tremendous role to play in and exit points. Those are the nursery school years, or preparing young people in a whole range of areas as early years foundation stage, and the latter years of they enter the next stage of their lives. There is no school life, as schools prepare their leavers for the next doubt that advice and guidance on careers is needed. stage of their developing adult lives, including through The latest statistics show that the number of 16 to 18 careers advice or further academic study. I have spoken year-olds not in employment, education or training on the subject of early years education in this House increased from 159,000 in the first quarter of 2011 to before. It is very important that nursery schools are 183,000 in the same period this year. This means that able to address each child’s individual developmental the proportion of NEET 16 to 18 year-olds now and cultural needs. I welcomed the Department for stands at 9.8%, which is up from 8.3% from last year. Education’s recently published document Supporting Those are troubling statistics. We are in difficult economic Families in the Foundation Years. It reminds us that the times and the employment prospects for young people primary aim of these years is to promote a child’s can seem bleak. It is all the more important, therefore, physical, emotional, cognitive and social development that schools are equipped to advise on the most so that all children have a fair chance to succeed at appropriate next steps for each individual. school and in later life. From this September, schools will have a statutory Reforms to the early years foundation stage will duty to provide independent, impartial careers guidance take effect from September this year. I am glad that for pupils aged 14 to 16. While I do not think that that they pick up the recommendations made by Clare goes far enough, with no additional funding many Tickell and others last year, and acknowledge the schools will be unable to meet even this basic requirement. compelling evidence that high-quality early education The Milburn recommendation to use the previous is linked to children’s healthy progress through school Connexions budget to allow schools to tender for and into adulthood. For example, studies show that careers services has not happened. What is more, the nursery schools offer a secure environment in which guidance was issued with little time for schools to children with special educational needs, or with English commission careers services to start from this autumn. as an additional language, can flourish. A significant Will the Minister take steps to ensure that careers number of nursery schools are also children’s centres advice in schools does not miss the most disadvantaged serving areas of social or economic deprivation. They pupils? Will he also give consideration to the call in the therefore have a particular role to play in social inclusion. Milburn report to prioritise initiatives, such as a national mentoring scheme? However, nursery schools across the country are under threat due to cutbacks in council spending. Schools also have an important role to play in Universal services are becoming more targeted. The giving accurate, up to date information on the diverse loss of more early years’ grants will directly affect landscape of higher education. I believe passionately existing children’s centres. Further cuts threaten nursery that a key part of a young person’s social and personal classes within schools as nursery schools find it increasingly development can come through the life-enhancing difficult to be financially viable within the LEA. What experience of higher education, but they must have the assurances can the Minister give that behind the welcome right advice on their choice of A-level subjects and words about the importance of the reformed EYFS accurate information on the changing arrangements there will be clear directives to local authorities to for student funding. There is little universities can do raise the profile of nursery schools and to promote an to counteract the impact of a student having studied understanding of their role? the “wrong” A-levels for the degree course. A further point here is the importance of experienced, It is crucial that young people, particularly those properly qualified staff. Work in early education and from disadvantaged backgrounds and those with no childcare is still widely seen as low status, low paid and family history of higher education, have access to low skilled. I therefore await with great interest Professor first-class guidance about their options and on how to Cathy Nutbrown’s report on strengthening the early navigate the many choices offered by higher education. years’ workforce, which is due out this month. We In conclusion, perhaps I may ask the Minister whether, must ensure that women and men enter the profession if schools are to be charged with providing this, they with the skills and experiences that they need to do the will be given the means to do so. Without a ring-fenced best work possible with young children and their budget, and without much clearer guidance to schools families. What will the Minister do to encourage the on what good careers guidance looks like and how to promises made in the Supporting Families in the Foundation provide it, there is a real danger that the system will Years document to strengthen qualifications and career fail those who most need it. 1485 Schools[LORDS] Schools 1486

3.49 pm aspirations, feelings about their own abilities and whether they have the power to control what will happen in Baroness Tyler of Enfield: My Lords, I, too, their lives and their sense of agency affects behaviour congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of and decisions. Whitchurch, on securing this vital debate on a subject that is very close to my heart. It is in the nature of There is an emerging body of fascinating research coming towards the end of a debate like this that so in this field that points to the importance of young many things that I wanted to say have already been people developing the social and emotional skills that said, and said extremely eloquently, so I shall improvise in turn give them the confidence, self-esteem, resilience, a little and add one or two things that have not yet persistence and motivation to deal with the stresses, come up in the debate. strains and set-backs of everyday life and still come through. This capability, sometimes called a character There is an increasing body of evidence that good trait, is increasingly being linked in the academic emotional well-being is strongly associated with good literature with the ability to do well at school, move up educational attainment and improved employment the social ladder and take advantage of second and prospects. More recently, a link has been shown between third chances. These social and emotional capabilities well-being and increased earnings potential. Of course, range from the softer end of the spectrum, if I can use the reverse is also true. Drawing on my previous that term—skills around empathy and the ability to experience as chief executive of the charity Relate, I make and maintain relationships—to the harder end know very well from the work that we did in many of the spectrum, which is discipline, application, mental schools across the country that when children and toughness, for which people sometimes use the term young people experience problems with relationships “grit”, delayed gratification and self-control. at home in the wake of a high-conflict family breakdown, it adds great difficulties to their ability to learn at In policy terms—and this is relevant to this debate—it school. That is one reason why high-quality relationship is really interesting that these skills can be taught not education for all is so critical. just in early years at school but into adulthood, and There is so much that I would like to say, probably that effective interventions in this area, where on another occasion, about sex and relationships schools have a vital role to play, can make a real education, or relationships and sex education, as I difference to educational attainment, employability have always liked to call it, but I shall wait for another and job success. debate to discuss that in more detail. The American Nobel prize-winning economist James On the whole issue of the importance of emotional Heckman has also shown that there is a good economic well-being, it is little surprise that, as we know from case with good economic returns for investing early in James Wetz’s work and his visits to schools in the this area, particularly for disadvantaged children. He United States, the United States has explicitly devoted concludes that identifying and scaling up these sorts its efforts to turning out children with emotional of interventions in school and elsewhere is fertile well-being as well as academic achievement. We know territory for tackling disadvantage and improving social from his work how those two have been so clearly mobility. In case this should all sound too academic, linked, and how critical this has been for children in or indeed from the other side of the pond, it is disadvantaged areas. interesting to observe that developing psychological or emotional resilience and mental toughness is seen Closer to home, there are schools in the independent as a very important life skill by many educationalists sector—we have already heard about this from the here. Indeed, as one director of children’s services has noble Baroness, Lady Massey—such as Wellington put it recently: College, which has been a trailblazer for the principle of well-being and emotional resilience. It has done this “Not only can we, in many cases, enhance a young person’s performance, these particular skills are useful for just about by involving every aspect in their school of their ethos, everything that a person is going to have to do in life”. design and teaching across the whole curriculum. It is not just a question of having a lesson called “emotional We have already heard many facts and figures on well-being” but about it running through absolutely mental health and the UNICEF report. We also heard everything that the school does—not least, as the some interesting things about the Office for National principal would tell us, because it has helped to boost Statistic’s recent report, Measuring Children’s and Young their academic results. If that is good enough for the People’s Well-being, which was published in 2011, not independent sector, should such an approach not be least that it assessed the impact of a child’s well-being good enough for the state sector? I very much believe on a parent’s well-being, and said that, that it should. “a parent is only as happy as their saddest child”. To try to bring in one slightly new angle to this We have also heard about The Good Childhood debate, I wanted to mention the work that I have been Report published by the Children’s Society, which involved in. I have been very privileged over the last emphasised the value of asking children how they year to be a member of the All-Party Parliamentary feel about their lives to help to understand the key Group on Social Mobility. On 1 May we published ingredients of a good childhood. Many factors came our interim report, Seven Key Truths About Social out of that and we have heard about many of them in Mobility. Truth number seven was that personal resilience this debate, so I will not repeat them. However, what I and emotional well-being are quite often the missing think was most relevant to this debate was the consultation link in the chain for social mobility. I shall try to with children, which found that they saw school as explain what we meant there. We already know, from vital to their well-being, both at present and in the all the work that we did, that young people’s expectations, future. 1487 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1488

What does all this add up to and what can schools The great thing about this is that it is not simply do in this regard? I understand the argument that what is on offer when you go with your tray to the there is only so much that a school can do. At the very cafeteria; everything is integrated in a more generic least it is absolutely vital that schools ensure that their approach to food, and that runs through the whole staff understand signs of emotional and behavioural school curriculum. We offer food technology classes problems, and that there is someone in each school throughout years 7 to 9 in which students learn how to responsible for knowing what support is available prepare healthy meals from scratch. Food technology from local services, be they in the statutory or voluntary has proved so popular that we also offer an after-school sectors. It might be things such as increasing access to cooking club. psychological therapy—I very much welcome its recent As though that were not enough, the school has extension to children and young people—and ensuring tried out a student-run restaurant called The Globe. that children can get linked in as quickly as possible. It Hospitality diploma pupils were given another opportunity is interesting to note that in both Wales and Northern to wine and dine guests in their very own food Ireland but not in England there is a requirement for establishment, this time named Central Cuisine. From counselling services to be available in all secondary luxury student-run restaurants to French food tasting, schools. the Central Foundation offers a whole host of ways to There is much that schools can do with universal keep students excited about healthy eating. Along with approaches and targeted services. The experience in a variety of extracurricular sports activities and classes, the USA and in private schools is particularly important. there is something for everybody. And as though all I very much look forward to hearing the Minister’s that were not enough, who needs to write speeches response on these issues. when they are written so brilliantly for you in this way? Top tips—there are seven of them—on page three of 3.57 pm the menu reads: “Drink plenty of water. Take iron. Eat breakfast. Include Lord Griffiths of Burry Port: My Lords, when drawn protein-rich foods. Optimise Omega 3s. Boost energy. Destress at No. 15 out of 15, you never know what is going to with salad”. be left—perhaps items from the rich man’s table—but It is all absolutely fantastic. I will do my best. Far from this being an esoteric and rather marginal I thought dark thoughts when the noble Baroness, thing to talk about, we should be making more of Lady Miller, spoke about food and took my pitch good and healthy eating as the basis for a child’s sense from me. However, I hope that she will think that what of well-being at school so that they are well disposed I have to say complements what she said so strongly to receive what happens in the classroom and have the and well. I pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Jones strength to undertake what happens on the sports field of Whitchurch for pulling this debate out of the bag, afterwards. I should have said that I was talking about especially given her background of the School Food the Central Foundation Boys’ School. Therefore, even Trust. I hope that I am entitled to add to what has better, all these things challenge gender stereotyping already been said. as well. I was led to the subject of food because today I Although she is not in her place now, I want to pick must be ultra organised in that I must go straight from up on the intervention of my noble friend Lady King the Chamber to a governors’ meeting at the Central regarding whether the freed, autonomous and freestanding Foundation School, where I have served in that capacity academies are under the same sort of pressure to give for a very long time. The May newsletter that we the same prominence to food in their general delivery shall be looking at at the governors’ meeting concentrates or whether, as she suggested, up to a third have given it on food, and therefore my subject was chosen for me. I very low importance. I ask the Minister to give me was delighted to see that the newsletter states that some kind of satisfaction on that point but not to take detailed discussions between the school’s catering too long on it as I have to get to the school governors’ company, Alliance in Partnership, the school council meeting presently. and Islington Council have led to an improvement As a child in far-away Wales in a poor home where I in the nutritional value of the school’s food, but that did not eat any meat until I was 16, it was in 20th-century it has also smartened up the canteen so that it is a school canteens that I was fed all my protein through more agreeable environment within which to eat food. school meals. There was very tough meat. It was not All of us know that when we choose a restaurant we called lamb then; it was called mutton and it was not want to go to a nice place with ambience as well as very nice but, goodness me, it seems to have given me gastronomie. enough strength to stand up in your Lordships’ House The sort of menu that you now find in the school and to go on at noble Lords in this way. canteen in the basement of a Victorian building looks In conclusion, from that menu, for me it would be as though it might rival the Rivington Grill or L’Abat the beef curry with braised rice, and I think I will Jour—my favourite restaurants in my area. On offer choose the rhubarb crunch with custard, although are lamb meatballs in tomato sauce, Mediterranean that may be slightly counterproductive. vegetables with couscous, beef curry, vegetable balti, mango chicken baguette or wrap; for side dishes, 4.05 pm country mixed vegetables, pasta, braised rice or side salad; and, for dessert, a fruit bag, home-based dessert The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for selection or rhubarb crunch with custard. The mouth Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): My Lords, I am the waters. 15th speaker and the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of 1489 Schools[LORDS] Schools 1490

[LORD HILL OF OAREFORD] and resilience are in a way much the same thing. I Burry Port was 14th because we had a no show, but it agree with him about the contribution that church is always a great pleasure to speak after him. He has schools make to community cohesion, and it was reminded me how long it is since lunch and how long important that he reminded us of that. We have heard we still have to wait until supper. I will try not to of some of the many excellent examples of outstanding detain him or the House too long in responding to the teaching and pastoral care that brilliant teachers provide important issues that the noble Baroness, Lady Jones up and down the country, including, as the noble of Whitchurch, has raised this afternoon. Baroness, Lady Tyler of Enfield, reminded us, in the I am sorry to disappoint the noble Baroness, Lady independent sector. Morris of Yardley, but she will not find someone to All that having been said, I emphasise what I believe disagree with her basic contention about the importance to be the core contribution that schools can make to a of the contribution that schools can make to the child’s well-being: to provide a decent education. The well-being and personal social needs of children. It noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, said that has been an extremely good debate this afternoon, as in a way the Government sometimes seem too fixated is always the case. The noble Lord, Lord Pendry, said on exam performance. In reply, I say that without that he hoped that I would listen and learn from the literacy there is not likely to be a huge amount of debate; I always try to do that in your Lordships’ well-being; without numeracy there is not likely to be a House. I always learn things when I come to the huge amount of well-being; and without decent House and listen, whether it is about research that I qualifications, whether academic or vocational, there had not heard of before or a range of other issues that is not likely to be much well-being either. I agree that it provide food for thought along the lines referred to by is not an either/or situation but the reason why the the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths. Government are so concerned about tackling educational I very much agree about the contribution that schools underperformance, particularly in the most disadvantaged can make and, as has been argued this afternoon, I areas, is that we see it as being central to helping think that schools do that in a variety of ways. They improve children’s life chances. That is a broad goal certainly do it through sport, for example The Government that will include their overall well-being. agree with the noble Lord, Lord Pendry. I know that To state the obvious—this point has already been we disagree about some of the mechanisms. I know made—a well run and orderly school with high aspirations what he has contributed in the past and of his for all its children will not just equip them with better disagreement on how we are now approaching it, but qualifications but will help them meet their other it is not the case that we do not value the importance personal and social needs. The best schools that I visit of the contribution that sport makes not just to health do not just do well at exams; they care about music, and in tackling obesity. Those things are important, drama, sport, the quality of food that they offer and but it contributes in terms of character and learning how the children socialise. That point was made by my about oneself. I agree with the noble Lord as well on noble friend Lady Benjamin. Taking up the point of the important contribution that competitive sport makes, the noble Lord, Lord Layard, the schools care about but there are other ways, such as dance, for example. the happiness and well-being of their children. I agree When I go around the country I am lucky to see the with the noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Yardley, that variety of ways that schools try to engage pupils in they do not see qualifications and well-being as being different physical activity. Often the boys do the dance polar opposites. as well. Contributions can be made through sport, We know that there are schools in this country with music and diet, as we have already discussed, and as very challenging intakes that outperform schools in mentioned by my noble friend Lady Miller of Chilthorne much wealthier areas with much more favoured intakes. Domer, and of course through PHSE, as once again Cuckoo Hall school in Enfield and Thomas Jones set out by the noble Baroness, Lady Massey. They are primary school in North Kensington do not have an all crucial in helping to improve well-being and in attainment gap. In both schools, exactly the same preparing young people for the world that they will percentage of children eligible for free school meals as discover when they leave school. those from wealthier homes reach an acceptable level I agree with the point made early on by my noble in English and maths—and in both cases the figure is friend Lady Walmsley about the importance of parenting. 100%. Therefore, I do not think for a moment that We cannot expect schools to pick up all the pieces. We there is a difference between us on the importance of expect a huge amount from schools and over the years the contribution that schools make to children’s well-being. they have become the repository of more and more of However, I accept that there is a difference between us our concerns about social ills generally. We think, “Oh in how best we can achieve that. My noble friend Lady well, let’s get the schools to do it”. We must not expect Walmsley made the point that there are different ways them to pick up all the pieces but I recognise, as the of going about things. noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, reminded I will set out as quickly as I can the Government’s us, the important contribution that they make and overall approach, and some of the practical steps that how many schools help to make up for some of the we have taken. First, we have the overriding goal of deficiencies that too many children suffer with the reducing the amount of prescription from the centre decline of parenting skills and family life. and the number of central initiatives. This is not I very much take the point about the importance of because we do not think that any of the policy objectives soft skills that employers are looking for and the of the sort that we have discussed today are desirable question of character, which was first raised by the but because we are trying, bit by bit, to increase the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester. Character space for head teachers to exercise their professional 1491 Schools[14 JUNE 2012] Schools 1492 judgment. Going back in time, Governments of all pupils who are at risk of exclusion from school. We complexions have tended to shove the system first one have not talked today about that group of children way and then another to try to fix a problem or pursue that we want to help. It is important to remember that a policy. I have a lot of sympathy with the points made for those children who end up being excluded, the in this regard by the noble Lord, Lord Wills. While conveyor belt from educational failure to exclusion to, one can understand the rationale behind any of the unfortunately, prison is too direct and horrible. It is individual initiatives, the cumulative effect over time important that we should try to break some of the was to silt up the system, leading to governing bodies links. The exclusion trials we are now taking forward and heads struggling with paperwork and directives, are based on some good work that local authorities in and being pulled in all kinds of different directions. Cambridgeshire have been doing where, by giving The old Ofsted framework was an example. Inspectors schools greater responsibility for their pupils, the number reported on a minimum of 27 areas. By contrast, we of pupils in their pupil referral units fell from 700 to want a system that is more independent and autonomous, 150 in only a couple of years. We can learn from that. where heads have greater space to do what they think We are also taking action to improve the opportunities is right for the children in their care. and well-being of our most vulnerable children and Secondly, we have recognised the importance, on their families, those with special educational needs, which there is broad agreement across the House, of through the Children and Families Bill, to which the intervening early and of making sure that those from noble Baroness, Lady Warnock, referred. I shall make poorer backgrounds get more help. We are extending sure that the views she expressed will be referred to my the 15 hours a week of free early education for three honourable friend Sarah Teather. She is in the lead in and four year-olds to the most disadvantaged two this area and her views always carry great weight. We year-olds. We are keen for practitioners to intervene are trying to give those children and their families earlier with children who face difficulties. That is why more of a say and more of a choice, and to bring their we are introducing a new progress check for two health and educational needs together in a more year-olds under the new early years foundation stage, co-ordinated way. If we can achieve that, we will have which was referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady made a good contribution to the well-being of some of Warwick. Our longer-term ambition is to introduce a the most vulnerable children in the country. fully integrated health and early years review in 2015. As we want an education system that responds to We have introduced the pupil premium and are the needs of all children, we are also working to providing £1.25 billion for it this year. In answer to my improve the quality of vocational education alongside noble friend Lady Walmsley, certainly the premium our efforts to secure academic rigour. I accept that can be used to improve pupils’ well-being. That is sometimes it sounds as though we are only concerned precisely the kind of use to which we would want about the academic side and qualifications, but that is schools to put it. They should use their judgment on a consequence, in some ways, of the nature of politics how best to spend the money; that is one of the and how the media operate. However, the work we are principles that we are applying. We are publishing doing in that area, the work that we have done with what-works evidence for schools to give them a sense the Wolf review, the work we are doing to expand a of what works successfully in some areas. couple of initiatives undertaken by the previous As I said, we are working to raise standards of Government— university technical colleges and studio literacy and numeracy, which are the key skills that schools, of which I am a great supporter and trying to children need to succeed. From this summer our new expand as rapidly as is sensible—and the increasing check at age six will help make sure that children are number of apprenticeships are all signs of our intent making progress and will pick up those who have to cater for children who have a broad range of talents problems—for example, with dyslexia. We will get and aptitudes. We are also working to bring the worlds children learning poetry. I agree with noble Lords who of work and education closer together. think that this will enrich children’s learning rather We are also taking action outside the classroom to than being a return to the narrow educational approach address some of the issues that we have touched on of the workhouse. today. These include action on child sexual exploitation, We are trying to slim down the national curriculum the Bailey review, steps to speed up adoption, more specifically to free up more time for the kind of support for troubled families and the introduction of activities that we have been discussing today. I agree the National Citizen Service, which will build up to with the point made by a couple of noble Lords about 90,000 places a year, as a way of giving young people a the importance of creativity in teaching. I would not chance to contribute more broadly to society. argue that there is only one approach to pedagogy; we That is a quick canter through some of the broad need creativity in teaching and I hope that one of the measures we are taking and I hope that it counters to benefits of slimming down the national curriculum some extent the picture that is sometimes painted of generally will be to free up more space for creativity. the Government as being interested in schools only as We have spoken about the importance of an orderly exam factories. I do not accept that that is an accurate environment in which children can learn and are free picture of the aims and ambitions of the Government. from bullying. A bullied and frightened child cannot I hope that some of the examples of the steps that we learn and cannot be happy. We have introduced a are taking across the piece will help to counter that. number of measures to help schools provide a safe I turn to some of the specific issues that were and secure environment. Some came in with the Education raised, and if I fail to pick up on all of them, which Act which a number of us debated last year. We are undoubtedly I will in the time available to me, I will taking forward trials to improve the education of follow them up. The noble Lord, Lord Wills, talked 1493 Schools[LORDS] Banking Reform 1494

[LORD HILL OF OAREFORD] Government are so intent on raising educational standards, about the transition from key stage 2 to key stage 3, particularly in disadvantaged areas. I believe that if we which I agree is important. It is an aspect that we are can do that, it will make it much easier for us to considering as part of the national curriculum review. achieve all the other desirable ends that noble Lords Obviously, PSHE was a theme that we came back to have discussed today and which I know we are all keen repeatedly. The review, which is continuing, is looking to achieve. at the kind of research we heard about this afternoon, as well as the kind of evidence that the noble Lord, 4.24 pm Lord Layard, brought to our attention. That consultation Baroness Jones of Whitchurch: My Lords, I do not is going on and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, intend to detain the House much further. As has been knows, the review is being tied in with the broader said, we have had excellent contributions from around national curriculum review that is under way. We are the Chamber, although I am sorry that the Minister trying to bring the two together, but until we have was so unsupported by contributions from his own done the second bit I am not able to go any further on Back Benches. the first bit. As expected, the Minister has made a sterling effort An important point was raised by my noble friend to defend the Government’s record and intent. However, Lady Miller about universal credit and eligibility for I fundamentally agree with my noble friend Lady free school meals. It is certainly the case that the Morris, who argued very wisely that it is easy to make intention behind the reforms to universal credit is not reassuring noises about the Government’s intent but to reduce eligibility for free school meals, so we will the lack of structure on which to hang the policies, work closely with the Department for Work and Pensions and the lack of Ministers vocally championing some to make sure that in the definition, the priority for of these issues, is sending signals to schools that some families with free school meals is maintained. We have of these issues are not really valued. Perhaps the talked about dance. Minister could take that message back. Important points were raised by the noble Baroness, Ultimately, we are arguing about the balance between Lady Warwick of Undercliffe, about early years. A well-being and educational attainment. We have a number of her points are being considered by the slightly different sense of that balance from the Nutbrown review, and the report is due. Ten early Government; we disagree on it and over the months to years teaching centres are being funded to deliver come we will continue to try to persuade the Government professional development and leadership support to that they have got that wrong. foundation years providers in their areas, but if there In a more positive spirit of cross-party co-operation, are some more detailed points I can follow up in order I will very happily volunteer to join forces with the to update the noble Baroness on where we are on that, noble Baroness, Lady Miller, to campaign for free I will do so afterwards. school meals for all primary schoolchildren, and I can My noble friend Lady Tyler of Enfield talked about see a campaign developing from that. the importance of being able to spot mental health I thank all noble Lords for their contributions from problems and general emotional and behaviour problems. around the Chamber. This debate will be ongoing. I agree with her, and we are sharpening the focus on special educational needs in qualified teacher status. Motion agreed. We have increased the number of placements for trainee teachers in special schools, up from 400 last year to 900 this year. We have provided funding for an additional Banking Reform 1,000 SENCO places this year. It is an important area Statement and we will persevere with it. Another important point that was raised concerned 4.26 pm careers. I agree that it is important to provide good The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord careers advice. As noble Lords know, one of the Sassoon): My Lords, I refer the House to the Statement changes we made in the Education Act last year was to on banking reform made in another place by my devolve that responsibility to schools, who we think honourable friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, know their pupils. I agree with the point that was copies of which have been made available in the Printed made about the most disadvantaged. The statutory Paper Office and the text of which will be printed in guidance we have issued makes it clear that schools full in the Official Report. should consider particularly the needs of their disadvantaged pupils in the guidance they give. The following Statement was made earlier in the House I agree strongly with the proposition that schools of Commons. should educate the whole child. I also agree strongly “Mr Speaker, the financial crisis exposed a great that education is more than about learning facts and many flaws in the system. Banks borrowed too accumulating qualifications. It is about preparing children much, took risks they did not understand and bought for the rest of their lives. As the noble Lord, Lord securities that proved to be far from secure. Banking Layard, said, it is about inculcating a love of learning. groups became too complex and interconnected to be But at the heart of that is the core task of equipping managed effectively, regulators failed to identify the children well with the basic building blocks of education. risks, and taxpayers paid the price. Between October We know of the terrible progression whereby illiteracy 2008 and December 2010, European taxpayers provided leads to so many other social ills. That is why the almost ¤300 billion to prop up their banks, with 1495 Banking Reform[14 JUNE 2012] Banking Reform 1496 liquidity and lending support in the trillions. In the institutions. Beyond this, and within certain constraints, UK, the bailout of RBS was the biggest banking firms may decide what to put inside the ring-fence. bailout in the world. Ring-fencing provides customers with flexibility, but Just as the crisis revealed many flaws, there is no not at the cost of financial stability. The Government single solution. This Government are reforming the propose to strengthen the ICB’s recommendations by substance and structure of the financial architecture, applying strict controls on the use of derivatives that a putting the Bank of England in charge of prudential ring-fenced bank uses to hedge its own balance sheet. regulation. We have created the Financial Policy This will ensure that a ring-fenced bank does not take Committee to look at risks across the financial system. excessive risks when managing its own risks, as was the Our permanent bank levy penalises short-term wholesale case in JP Morgan’s recent much publicised trading funding, and we have introduced the toughest and loss. most transparent pay regime of any major financial Governance of the ring-fenced bank will be important. centre in the world. We have worked with our international The Government propose to strengthen the ICB partners to deliver robust, consistent standards on recommendations in this area, establishing separate prudential standards for banks and markets. risk and possibly remuneration committees. But it is The White Paper we are publishing today sets out important to focus these reforms where they have the how we will implement the recommendations of the biggest impact; that is, on the biggest, “too big to fail” Independent Commission on Banking. These reforms banks. So the Government propose that smaller banks, form a key part of this Government’s broader programme with below £25 billion of mandated deposits, be exempt of reform. In the same way that the action we have from these requirements. Large, systemically important taken on the deficit has meant that UK debt is currently banks have a competitive advantage from the perceived seen as a ‘safe haven’ asset by investors around the implicit guarantee. Our targeted reforms remove that world, we will ensure that British banks are resilient, advantage, helping smaller banks and new entrants. stable and competitive, and so attractive to investors One of the clearest lessons from the crisis is that at home and abroad. investors and creditors—not taxpayers—should bear The eurozone crisis makes reform more, not less, the costs of failure. That is why we have supported important. The link between the strength of a country’s Basel III, which increases banks’ capital requirements banking sector and its own stability could not be to 7%, with a top-up for systemically important banks, clearer. At the same time, our proposals reflect progress and we have pressed for it to be implemented across that has been made in European and international Europe. But to protect taxpayers, this Government regulation since December. The Government welcome will go further. The largest UK ring-fenced banks the European Commission’s recovery and resolution should hold an additional 3% of equity on top of the directive, which will improve member states’ ability to Basel III minimum standards. resolve cross-border banks without imposing costs on The Government also strongly endorse the introduction taxpayers. This Government will continue to press for of a binding minimum leverage ratio. The White Paper full implementation of Basel III in Europe. supports the Basel proposal of a 3% leverage ratio for The goals of today’s White Paper are clear. First, all banks, including UK ring-fenced banks, and will since future financial crises rarely repeat the pattern of continue to press for the implementation of the Basel the past, we must make banks more resilient to shocks. standard through EU law. Large ring-fenced banks Secondly, we must make our banks more resolvable so should hold a minimum amount of loss-absorbing that, if they fail, they do not threaten the provision of capacity—made up of equity or debt—of 17% of vital services to the real economy. Seeing through risk-weighted assets. Their overseas operations should these two goals will achieve our third: to curb risk-taking be exempt from this requirement unless they pose a in financial markets. It must be clear that investors risk to financial stability. For smaller UK banks, as the reap rewards when banks do well but take the pain if ICB recommends, the minimum requirements should banks fail. be lower. The Government will ring-fence retail deposits from To deliver these proposals, the authorities need a the risks posed by international wholesale and investment way to “bail in” bank liabilities so that bondholders, banking. A ring-fenced bank will be economically and not taxpayers, bear the losses. The Government will legally separate from the rest of its group, and run by work with European partners to ensure that the ICB’s an independent board. The ring-fence will not stop a recommendations on bail-in are credibly and consistently bank failing, but it will insulate the deposits of families applied across Europe, through the recovery and resolution and businesses and, if a bank does fail, these essential directive. This Government intend to introduce the parts of the banking system can continue without principle of depositor preference for insured deposits. recourse to the taxpayer. The deposits of individuals Unsecured lenders to banks are better placed to monitor and their overdrafts, and the deposits and overdrafts the risks that banks are taking on and they should of small and medium-sized businesses, will in general take losses ahead of ordinary depositors. be placed in ring-fenced banks. Our proposals on financial stability also improve To minimise the risks that the ring-fenced bank is competition in UK banking. The implicit guarantee to exposed to, it will be prohibited from conducting the large banks distorts competition; its reduction will vast majority of international wholesale and investment help create a level playing field. But the Government banking. It will not be permitted to carry out activities want to do more to encourage new entrants and through branches or subsidiaries outside the EEA, promote competition. We will shortly issue a consultation nor, except in limited circumstances, with financial on reform to the payments system. 1497 Banking Reform[LORDS] Banking Reform 1498

[LORD SASSOON] The Statement suggests that one of the Government’s I welcome the reviews by the Bank of England and goals is, the FSA of the prudential and conduct requirements “to curb risk-taking in financial markets”. for new entrants to ensure that they are appropriate, Can the Minister elaborate a little on this? As many not disproportionate. The Government strongly support have commented, a financial market without risk is the need for a strong challenger bank to emerge from the market of the grave. If Britain is ever to return to the Lloyds Banking Group divestment, and are engaging boisterous growth—something which under this coalition with Lloyds and the European Commission to ensure must be in increasingly serious doubt—financial that the divestment creates as strong a challenger as institutions will need to take risks. Indeed, the expansion possible. A more competitive market will only work if of credit is vital to recovery. customers are prepared to change banks. How does the Treasury intend to monitor the risk The Government are pleased with the progress on that is generated within the ring-fence system? What is the industry-led initiative to make current account the Treasury’s definition of “acceptable” levels of risk? switching faster and easier for customers. Providers What is the Treasury’s estimate of the impact of these covering 97% of the current account market have measures on the supply of credit to households and to signed up and the scheme is on track to be launched small and medium-sized firms? For example, what will next September. But to switch, customers need better be the impact on the supply of credit of the severe information, so the Government welcome the fact that limitations on wholesale funding of the balance sheet, the OFT and FCA will take forward the ICB’s given the important role that wholesale funding has recommendation to improve transparency across all played in the British banking system over the past retail banking products. Work is already under way on decade? What will be the impact of the new leverage a number of projects, such as making account data collar on the supply of credit? All these issues refer available to customers electronically to enable them to directly to the ability of British industry to receive the shop around. funding that it needs for recovery. Financial stability is a prerequisite for growth. Our What is the Government’s intention with respect to analysis suggests that the proposals in the White Paper the substantial flow of liquidity into the UK economy will cost, in GDP terms, in the region of £0.6 billion to from the Crown dependencies? Since large companies £1.4 billion per annum—compare that to the estimate will be outside the ring-fence and the failure of those that the 2007-09 crisis has already cost the UK economy companies would impose unacceptable costs on the £140 billion, 100 times the maximum cost estimate. So UK economy, is it not clear that the Government’s these proposals, while ambitious in scale, are proportionate proposal has failed to deal with the issue of “too big in impact. They will promote financial stability while to fail”? How would the Government deal with the supporting sustainable growth and maintaining the failure of a non-ring-fenced bank that imposed destructive UK’s role as the world’s leading international financial instability on large UK companies? centre. The Statement also reads: The reforms we are announcing today, together “The deposits of individuals and their overdrafts, and the with the changes we are making to the regulatory deposits and overdrafts of small and medium-sized businesses architecture, demonstrate that the Government are will, in general, be placed in ring-fenced banks”. determined to take action to deliver a stable and How can the Government be sure of this? What compels sustainable banking system that underpins, rather than a saver to commit their savings to ring-fenced banks if undermines, economic growth”. those banks offer a lower rate of return than non-ring- fenced operations? Are the Government simply planning 4.26 pm to force UK households to accept lower rates of return to secure the stability of institutions within the Lord Eatwell: My Lords, having read the Statement, ring-fence? I am most grateful to the noble Lord for not repeating it. He has rescued the House from some tedium. The Statement also declares that, However, I am concerned that the new procedures are “within certain constraints, firms may decide what to put inside having the unintended consequence of shielding the the ring-fence”. Minister from embarrassment, particularly the I presume, therefore, that they may decide what to put embarrassment of having watered down the Vickers outside. What do the Government have in mind here? proposals, and from a number of serious ambiguities Why are they abdicating their responsibility to determine in the Statement. I have not had the opportunity to the boundary of the ring-fence? read the White Paper. I hope it will provide a better We are told that the Government have decided that vision of the future of UK banking than does the ring-fenced banks should be required to hold 10% capital Statement. against risk-weighted assets. Whence do the Government We on this side of the House welcomed the Vickers derive the belief that moving to a 10% capital-to-risk- report as a positive step along the road to making weighted asset ratio will provide the resilience that the Britain’s retail banking system safer, in particular banking sector requires to head off a serious crisis? protecting households and small and medium-sized This belief is without empirical foundation. A little firms from the instability that, as we have seen to our investigation would reveal that Allied Irish Bank, the cost, may well be generated in wholesale financial collapse of which devastated the Irish economy, always markets, by banks’ proprietary trading and by the had a capital-to risk-weighted asset that was higher complex interconnections that characterise today’s global than that which the Government now propose as the banking. basis of security of ring-fenced banks. 1499 Banking Reform[14 JUNE 2012] Banking Reform 1500

More generally, it is well known that the outcome flexible, forward-looking and balances those key interests of regulatory actions—that they stimulate a creative of ensuring that we have a world-class but safe banking response from the banks, creative in the sense that they system. work out ways to circumvent or evade the regulations— The noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, talked about risk-taking reduces the impact of regulatory innovation over time. in the financial markets. The critical thing is that we How do the Government intend to keep the operations want to make sure that the parts of the banks within of the ring-fence under review? Wouldit not be appropriate the ring-fence, the parts of the banks in which the to keep the Independent Commission on Banking in savings of the men, women and children of this country being and charge it with the task of reviewing go, are properly ring-fenced and protected—the parts regularly the performance of the ring-fence? Why not of the banks which service the SMEs of this country. ask Sir John Vickers and his team to return to the We want to ensure that there is not inappropriate issue—let us say—12 months after the ring-fence has risk-taking within that ring-fence. The noble Lord been introduced? asked how that is to be monitored. It is not for Her What is to be done on the timing of this legislation? Majesty’s Treasury to monitor it; it will be up to the We have before the House a Financial Services Bill the Financial Policy Committee to look at the system as a structure of which, as has been recognised by the whole—as it already is in interim form—and it will be Government and throughout the House, is seriously for the Prudential Regulation Authority, under the deficient. Would it not be better for the Government Bank of England, to supervise individual firms in to withdraw that Bill, go back and rewrite it in a way future. which corrects its deficiencies, and incorporate the The noble Lord then talked about curbs on growth. new measures from the Vickers report and the White That area is very important, because the flow of credit Paper in that revised Bill? The House would then have must go on, particularly at this time of challenge in the opportunity of assessing in its entirety the new the economy. That is precisely one reason why Sir John framework for financial services in this country, rather Vickers and the commission recommended that the than this hotchpotch of measures being introduced implementation of the recommendations should be one after the other without clarity as to the way in concluded by 2019, a recommendation that we have which they relate to one another. accepted. The numbers are set out in the document, but I suggest that the costs of implementation over that period and beyond on a running basis are very 4.33 pm modest in relation to both the cost of the banking Lord Sassoon: My Lords, I am sorry that the noble crisis over which the previous Government presided Lord, Lord Eatwell, has not yet had a chance to read and the size of the UK economy. the very detailed White Paper because, when he does, The noble Lord then referred to the flow of funds he will see that a lot of his detailed questions have in from Crown dependencies. He is clearly an expert been addressed. on this subject. I believe that he is on the regulatory I find it disappointing that the noble Lord comes body of the States of Jersey. I am aware, as he is, that here and takes such a picky attitude towards this significant deposits flow from that and other Crown fundamentally important reform being introduced by dependencies into the UK wholesale markets. That the Government. The previous Government had two plays an important part of the funding of the wholesale years in which to act on the collapse of Northern markets and should continue. Rock and then on the failures of RBS and Lloyds and The noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, then asked: what did absolutely nothing about them. Did it not occur to compels a saver to deposit his or her money in a them that there might be a problem with the structure ring-fenced bank? The fact is that 87%, or thereabouts, of banking in this country? It seems not. For two of deposits in the banking system at the moment are years, they sat on their hands, asked no questions and within banks that will be subject to the ring-fence. It is did nothing. When this Government came into office, highly implausible to suggest that it would be wrong we established within weeks the Independent Commission to protect 90% of the deposits of the British public but on Banking under the chairmanship of Sir John Vickers. not to say that there are other places that are not It has come up with a very fine report to government. ring-fenced that are accessible. What the noble Lord We have considered it very carefully and have published presents is not a realistic picture. Sir John Vickers and our final response today. What we have before us is his commission raised the question of a de minimis one of the most radical reforms of banking that I limit and we set a limit that the ring-fence should not suggest the world has ever seen. operate for banks with deposits below £25 billion. I Why have we done that? We have done that because suggest to the noble Lord that one thing on which we we face in this country something which my right might agree is that we need more diversity, more honourable friend the Chancellor has characterised as competition, and more new entrants in the banking the British dilemma: how do we continue to host a sector. It is entirely appropriate, we believe, that the world-class financial services sector, a sector in which ring-fence should operate for only the biggest of our our banks are able to go out to compete vigorously, as banks—those which account for some 90% of deposits. they do, around the world with the best and biggest The noble Lord then asked a number of technical that the rest of the world has, without putting the UK questions about the way that the ring-fence will operate. taxpayer at excessive risk? That is what is encapsulated I refer him to the details in the White Paper. If he has by our response to the Vickers commission, a response further questions that it does not answer, I would of that picks up the essence of what Vickers recommended course be happy to write on any supplementary questions but which interprets it in a way that is appropriate, that he may put, but there is a very full analysis there. 1501 Banking Reform[LORDS] Banking Reform 1502

[LORD SASSOON] will stay where they are. For better or worse, that is the As to the capital ratios proposed here, the noble system with a number of very large incumbent banks, Lord talked about the Government proposing them which will all be ring-fenced. It will be very clear to but of course what analysis there was underpinning people what the difference is between ring-fenced and them was all the ICB’s analysis. The Government have non-ring-fenced banks. The Statement made by my done one thing in this area today, which is to put out a right honourable friend was merely a clear statement 3% rather than a 4% ratio against total unweighted of observed behaviour and likely behaviour into the assets. That is to create a level playing field with what future—not a Statement saying that people “must” or is proposed in Europe. We want this measure to be not “are compelled to”, or that they do not have any a front-stop but a back-stop, in line with what the ICB choice. Of course they will have choice, but 90% of the proposed, and we want to make sure that our banks deposits are where they are today and I anticipate that have every opportunity to compete on a level playing that is not somehow going to be magically changed field. overnight. The noble Lord then asked whether we should ask the ICB to return to the operation of the ring-fence, 4.45 pm by keeping it under review and coming back to it one Lord Bilimoria: My Lords, building on what the year after it comes into operation. Given that the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, has just said, if we look implementation date is set by Sir John Vickers at 2019 back at the financial crisis, the FSA was asleep on the it might be a little unreasonable to Sir John and his job, and that is being addressed by the Financial commission, who have done tremendous work on this, Services Bill. There is no question about that. The to keep them on the hook until 2020, or later, to ask organisations that have got away scot free in the them to come back to these issues. I am sure that there banking reform and the Financial Services Bill are the will be other ways of looking at the impact of these credit rating agencies, which were so much to blame measures in due course. globally for the crisis, the credit crunch and the great Lastly, the noble Lord asked whether we should put recession. Will the Minister address that point? Secondly, these measures into one Bill with those in the Financial does he agree that it is surely a question of balance? Services Bill, which is already before your Lordships’ Have we got the balance right with the banking reforms? House. This is to misunderstand the different nature There is no question that the good point about the big of what is being addressed here. On the one hand, the bang is that it opened up the economy, but the negative Financial Services Bill deals with the structure of is that it is probably too open and not regulated regulation and, on the other, the measures that we are enough. Are we going too far here? Quite frankly, this talking about today relate to the structure of banking. looks like Groundhog Day to me. We have been here I accept of course that the two things taken together before in 1933 with the Glass-Steagall Act. What are the measures that, combined, will make sure that lessons have been learnt from that? Have we not this country has a world-class financial services sector learnt? and will not put UK taxpayers excessively at risk. However, they are two sets of distinct measures. Your Lord Sassoon: The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, Lordships will now have them in front of you so that makes a very good point about the credit rating agencies. you can read across from one to another but any The Bill is about the structure of banking. Credit suggestion of delaying the legislative process, which rating agency regulation is now essentially in the hands the noble Lord and others have constantly urged us to of the European Commission. The appropriate sub- get on with, would be wholly inappropriate. committee of your Lordships’ European Union Committee produced an excellent report, which we Lord Eatwell: Before the noble Lord sits down, I debated recently, on this subject. Yes, we must keep the would like to press him on a question on which I am subject of credit ratings under discussion, but genuinely puzzled. The Statement refers to the idea the competence is not primarily here, and it is not the that UK households will place their deposits in ring-fenced subject of the Statement we are addressing. banks. Why should they do that if the rate of return is On the lessons of history, Glass-Steagall and so on, higher on non-ring-fenced banks than it is on ring-fenced this is a different model from the Glass-Steagall model banks, and why should not an innovative financial and from the model that the US is implementing at the sector create devices whereby households can take moment. The Commission talked to a very wide range advantage of a higher rate of return in non-ring-fenced of people and, I am sure, studied the history very financial institutions? We are not planning—or are carefully. In the knowledge of the current and historical we?—to reintroduce Regulation Q as it was in the international precedents, that was its fundamental United States, where there was a limitation on the judgment about the high but flexible ring-fence. I return that households could receive on their deposits believe it has come up with something that takes all to force those deposits into the commercial banking those lessons on board, is appropriate for what we system. need now and is not going to impact significantly on the necessary driver for growth in this country, which Lord Sassoon: My Lords, at the moment depositors is keeping credit flowing this year, next year and the have freedom as to where they place their deposits. It year after. is certainly not the case that the vast majority of deposits go to the outliers, as there always are, in Baroness Kramer: It is with real pleasure that I offering returns. When it comes to the future arrangements, welcome the White Paper and the Statement by the I would anticipate that the vast majority of deposits Minister. He will be aware that my colleagues in both 1503 Banking Reform[14 JUNE 2012] Banking Reform 1504

Houses, especially Vince Cable, have long called for Lord Rees-Mogg: My Lords— the structural separation of vanilla banking from more speculative investment banking. We look at Vickers Baroness Northover: My Lords, to be fair, it is and the White Paper as a very acceptable and effective actually the turn of the Labour Benches. If they are compromise. As a result of its structural nature, ring- happy, then we will hear from the Cross Benches first fencing has far more possibility of resisting erosion before hearing from the Labour Benches. I think that over the years as the masters of the universe regain the noble Lords have given way. their confidence and begin to attempt to transfer risk back to the taxpayer. Lord Rees-Mogg: We were just brewing up to have a The Minister mentioned the Government’s decision very satisfactory little argument about the Glass-Steagall to stick with the 2019 timetable. Is that a really robust Act. The important thing about it is how long it lasted; measure? He will have heard some of the major banks it was passed by the Senate in the 1930s and ultimately trying to put a bit of pressure on this. A long-grass repealed by President Carter, who had been persuaded strategy is clearly under consideration by those who to do so by Wall Street. Its great virtue was that it are resistant to these changes. identified more clearly than previous legislation, and I see no reason why the Financial Services Bill more clearly than most subsequent legislation, the should be held up to make way for legislation that difference between retail bankers and what you could comes from this White Paper, but will the Minister call casino bankers, and put different responsibilities and his team take a look to make sure that what is on them. That protection worked. If one went, as I likely to flow from this can find a framework and that did, to Wall Street in the 1950s, one found that Wall there will be genuine capacity within the Financial Street had come to the conclusion that it was not Services Bill? He will know that I am particularly going to have another slump, primarily because of taken with the section in the White Paper called “A that Act but also because of the wartime Bretton More Diverse Banking Sector”. I am delighted to see Woods agreement, which was masterminded by our that and the whole competition area in the White very own Maynard Keynes. This is a consistent fruit. Paper emphasised so strongly. Will he make sure that The set of ideas that were developed in response to the the capacity for that exists comfortably within the crisis of the early 1930s worked their way through the Financial Services Bill when it leaves this House? financial body and the intellectual body, and gave us what we are now looking for—a restabilisation of our Lord Sassoon: I am grateful— own economy in its own terms.

Lord Rees-Mogg: My Lords— Lord Sassoon: The noble Lord, Lord Rees-Mogg, of course speaks with great authority on these matters. Lord Sassoon: Perhaps I might answer my noble All I do is to say that I listen with great interest to his friend first. I am grateful to her for welcoming these historical analysis. next steps as we implement Vickers. On the questions about timetabling, we are firm not only on implementation Lord Desai: My Lords, before we had the report by 2019 but on sticking to our commitment to completing from Sir John Vickers at the commission, there was the passage of the legislation in this Parliament, which talk of living wills that banks would make. Whatever allows for time for pre-legislative scrutiny this autumn happens, we are now to make quite sure that the and a proper and full process. On her point about taxpayer does not once again have to bail banks out. whether we have thought about the read-across to the While it is all right to have ring-fencing and so on, we Financial Services Bill, we have done so—for example, have to remember that Northern Rock was not a bank we have picked up the Vickers recommendation about with investment banking divisions. It was a bank the FCA having a competition objective, and that is which failed purely because of misbehaviour. Are we already drafted in the Financial Services Bill. There sure that, whatever happens, if even a ring-fenced will be other important elements, such as account- bank fails it will not be rescued by the taxpayer? switching, that will come in from September 2013. Everything fits together. I appreciate her recognition Lord Sassoon: The noble Lord, Lord Desai, as that a more diverse banking sector has also been always, brings up important points. Of course, living thought about; it is a very important element of this. wills are an integral part of the whole construct for better resolution of banks than we had before. Indeed, Lord Tugendhat: My Lords, I welcome the Statement the FSA has been leading the project for a couple of and I congratulate the Government on the speed at years or more to make sure that all the arrangements which they are moving. I have one question: where one are in place. The noble Lord draws attention to another part of a bank is within the ring-fence and one part is important part of the construct. outside, does the White Paper say anything about auditing? Would one expect there to be the same Lord Bates: But can my noble friend confirm that auditors for both parts of the bank, or would they the banking crisis actually cost the taxpayer, in direct expect to have different auditors? Does the White cash, loans and guarantees, close to £500 billion— Paper take a view on that? £465 billion pounds? Therefore, it behoves the Government to take some action to protect savers and the interests Lord Sassoon: As far as I am aware, there is no of the taxpayer in this regard. The introduction of the prohibition or restriction on the use of auditors. I am leveraging ratio is therefore welcome, particularly as it pretty sure that the audit position is not addressed, but follows international norms rather than putting our if I am wrong about that I will write to the noble Lord. industry at a competitive disadvantage. 1505 Banking Reform[LORDS] Banking Reform 1506

[LORD BATES] shores. It would not go elsewhere because of all the I have one small, technical point. The Minister has problems with salaries and bonuses and the vilification an incredible grasp of the detail, but does my noble of banking, but because it will just become too difficult friend have understanding of whether there will be to lend here and easier to lend in other markets. I ask any implications of introducing that leverage ratio for the Minister, and I include his coalition partners in the Government’s holdings in Lloyds Banking Group this—it would be nice to have a Secretary of State for and RBS? Business who supported business for once—whether, just for once, some positive words might come from Lord Sassoon: I am grateful to my noble friend for the Government about the financial services sector in pointing out the extraordinary cost of the banking this country, rather than constant smacking instead of crisis. He cites one figure; I think that the estimates encouragement. ranged from £140 billion upwards. They are extraordinary figures, which, as I said at the outset, the then Government Lord Sassoon: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord did not seem to think required any response. I completely Jones of Birmingham, is always rightly concerned agree with my noble friend Lord Bates that something about the financing of British business, which is very needed to be done, and that is what we have brought important. Today’s measures are not principally about forward. that. I could talk about the £21 billion national loan guarantee scheme or the fact that our 10-year sterling As for the effect on the Government’s holdings in sovereign rate has been in the 1.5% to 1.7% range for RBS and Lloyds, I am sure that your Lordships like the past few weeks, which is an unprecedented level. reading, as I do, the fine detail of impact assessments. That all flows through. Here, we are significantly At the back of the White Paper, the impact assessment reducing the risk of another banking crisis. It was that contains several paragraphs analysing the effect. It crisis—the disruption and its aftermath—that caused gives a number on a rather theoretical comparison of such difficulty in the flow of loans to our businesses. what the effect might be, but then points out that this Whatever we do here to minimise the chances of it is probably already priced into the market so that the happening again must be good for our businesses. price of the holdings today takes account of what is proposed. As for the UK being a competitive centre of banking, the Government are working incredibly hard. For example, only this morning I was at a very important Lord Jones of Birmingham: My Lords, I declare an meeting with businesses and authorities from the UK interest, and refer noble Lords to the register of interests, and Hong Kong, talking about how we would build advising both providers of finance and also those who the offshore RMB centre in London. That is an example consume it. I remember my Yorkshire grandmother of the forward-looking approach that we take to making when I was about 12 saying that it was a condition of sure that the UK and London continue to be the my Christmas present that an account was opened at global financial centres of choice. the Halifax Building Society, and it went in there. Little did Grandma Jones ever believe that that money Baroness Drake: My Lords, I have only just had and its successor funds would be used to be gambled time to read the White Paper but I ask the Minister to by the Bank of Scotland on commercial folly, so I elaborate on two issues. The Statement makes it clear congratulate the Minister on a good start. that the strength of a country’s banking sector strengthens However, of course we have one or two problems. its stability and gives it a competitive advantage—a First—and I would welcome the Minister’s comments view that I endorse. However, that view clearly worried on this—I notice that the Statement includes SMEs the European authorities, as evidenced by Mr Enria’s inside this ring-fence as well as private individuals, the evidence to the Joint Committee on the Financial provision of retail, the taking of deposits and the Services Bill. These are my words, not his, but he provision of finance. The problem is: how do we get expressed the view that capital requirements for banks capital and liquidity back into the small business in Europe should have both a minimum and a maximum. sector? Bigger businesses have balance sheets awash However, the White Paper confirms that the Government with cash but lack the confidence to invest it. At this support the ICB view that further buffers should be moment, smaller businesses do not. One of the biggest added to those of the Basel III international standards, reasons for this is that they have lost trust in the and that the Government will, through the CRD4 banking sector. If you had a good credit record in negotiations, work to ensure that they can be implemented 2008 and 2009 but had your credit facility taken away in accordance with EU law. Therefore, my first question and had to borrow from friends and mortgage your is: how confident are the Government of securing the house, you are hardly likely to trust the bank the next national regulatory freedom to impose the additional time around. Today does nothing to help that unless capital buffers that they would like to see? you make a virtue of necessity and prove to small Secondly, I am pleased to read in the White Paper business that this will in some way free up capital that, for the first time, the position of pension funds in towards the provision of liquidity. I am not sure that the ring-fencing will be important. The issue is to do this measure in any way does that and would welcome with making sure that the regulatory framework for the Minister’s comments. pension funding is not breached when dealing with the Secondly, there is the enormous problem of how banking separation. you get the balance right so that we are seen as a well regulated, safely executed and prosecuted banking Lord Sassoon: In answer to the noble Baroness’s environment, without encouraging the most successful first point, we are confident, and we are absolutely on of our globally competitive sectors not to leave these top of and watching her second point, which is important. 1507 Banking Reform[14 JUNE 2012] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1508

Baroness Wheatcroft: My Lords, I welcome the The Channel Tunnel opened in 1994 as a means to White Paper and the accompanying Statement. Separating give fresh impetus to relations with France and mainland risky banking from core retail banking is essential but Europe but also as an important step in expanding the we have to be careful that the ring-fence does not internal market, easing the movement of both people become a Chinese wall. It will take some policing. We and goods. As an aside, let us never forget that the also need to be very careful in watching to what extent internal market is an enduring tribute to the Government the hedging that will be allowed within the ring-fence of my noble friend Lady Thatcher following the is monitored by the various authorities. I have some publication of the White Paper on completion of the qualms about that. single market in June 1985. The committee felt that an I am also concerned about the timetable. I am examination of the challenges facing the operation of delighted to hear that the 2019 deadline will stay but I the Channel Tunnel and the obstacles to the fulfilment am puzzled as to why that needs to be the case for of its potential should act as the lens through which more than the capital requirements. I would have we focused our assessment. thought that the ring-fence might have been installed Our first findings rocked us somewhat. Capacity sooner than 2019, which sounds a long time away. My utilisation for freight was around 10% and that for final point is about why on earth households would passenger services was around 50%. Not making too put their money into a ring-fenced bank. I cannot see fine a point of it, this seems an abject failure to utilise why their money should be guaranteed if they put it in an undoubted asset. Our overall conclusion was that a riskier institution. Perhaps the Minister will answer there were many obstacles which should be addressed. that. Those with a suspicious mind could wonder whether some of the obstacles were based on the status quo Lord Sassoon: I would very much like to respond to position—the idea that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. those points but I see that the clock has reached Well, don’t fix it, it does work—but neither as efficiently 20 minutes. I do not like to do this but I had better nor as effectively as we think that it could. The continued write to my noble friend Lady Wheatcroft on these fragmentation of the European rail market is a true important points. barrier to trade. The remaining technical, administrative and legal obstacles must be addressed, and rapidly, as such action would surely encourage economic growth. European Rail Market: EUC Report The Government’s response agrees but there does not seem to be a huge sense of urgency. Motion to Take Note I should like to explain briefly the nature of six of 5.06 pm the obstacles. First, there is a need to establish strong and independent regulators. That does not mean more Moved By Baroness O’Cathain powers to Brussels. It simply calls for better use of existing powers. We did not recommend the creation That this House takes note of the Report of the of an EU-level economic regulator and the government European Union Committee on Tunnel Vision? response supports our view. Completing the European rail market (24th Report, Session 2010–12, HL Paper 229). Secondly, we suggest that the actual governance of the Channel Tunnel should be reviewed. A figure on page 19 of the report shows the complicated structure. Baroness O’Cathain: My Lords, this report is the One of our witnesses, Professor Vickerman, was clear result of the work of the sub-committee on the internal that the structure was, market, infrastructure and employment, which I chair; work that was carried out engagingly, energetically “no longer fit for purpose”. and, dare I say, enthusiastically by all members of the More than 25 years after the treaty of Canterbury, committee. I pay tribute to them and thank them for which established the model, now is an opportune their sterling work. The work programme and the final time to examine it. The Government, though, are not report could not have been completed in such a convinced. They stated in their response that they see, professional way without our clerks, John Turner and, “no imperative to review the Treaty. Nor do we believe there is any from October 2011, his successor Mark Davies, together appetite for renegotiation of the Treaty on the part of the French with our policy analyst, Michael Torrance. I thank authorities”. them most sincerely on behalf of the whole committee. My third point is that there are almost certainly The members of the committee recognise that the obstacles in the commercial operations of the tunnel. most important challenge facing this country, and Obviously, the more operators running services through indeed facing other European member states, is ensuring the tunnel, the greater the competition and the wider strong and sustainable growth. Ensuring a strong internal the choice both for freight operators and consumers. market with a well developed transport network to Although there is now more than one freight operator, connect trading partners is critical to that growth. The Eurostar remains the sole provider of passenger-only European Commission’s 2011 report, Roadmap to a services. Deutsche Bahn has applied to operate services, Single European Transport Area, identified rail as being but I hear that there are further delays to the application central to that objective. This guided our choice of process. That cannot be acceptable. We recommend topic. Our committee also determined that as part of that authorisation should be granted without undue our inquiry we should have a consumer focus noting delay. Many obstacles seem to have been put in the that, sadly, the consumer is left out of a great deal of way, as detailed in the report, although I have to admit the discussions on the European Union. that I remain to be convinced of their validity based 1509 European Rail Market: EUC Report[LORDS] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1510

[BARONESS O’CATHAIN] report details all the current “irritant factors”, including on the evidence that we received. I just hope that it is through-ticketing problems and opaque information not one of those very old non-tariff barriers to trade on passenger rights. These, coupled with some language that bedevilled my early career in both the motor and difficulties, can make the wished for wonderful experience food industries. of travelling to and from the mainland of Europe a The fourth obstacle we identified were the charges potential nightmare. We are unanimous that the customer for use of the tunnel set by Eurotunnel, the company should feel valued and hope that our report will make that won the concession to build and operate it. We a move in that direction a reality. appreciate that they comprise a significant part of Having touched the surface of the scale of the Eurotunnel’s income, particularly as it is a private challenge ahead, I hope I have convinced noble Lords company that has to cover construction and running that something should be done. The Channel Tunnel costs, but we concluded that a reduction in the medium could, should, and indeed must be an important part term could serve as a powerful fillip for the development of a thriving European rail network—one that is of passenger services, and a concomitant for growth. popular, efficient, easy to use and promotes growth. New entrants could be deterred from seeking authorisation There is much to do and we need a real sense of to provide services if the access charges are not fair, urgency to do it, especially when the possibilities for predictable and more easily available. the Channel Tunnel fall into the win-win category. For my fifth obstacle, we come to one of those I thank in advance all who are taking part in this words that does not exist in the very large dictionary debate and I am looking forward very much to their that we have in the office upstairs—interoperability. contributions. In particular, I look forward to the Actually, it means what is says, I am told, and I response of my noble friend Lord Attlee, hoping that suppose we will get used to it. The EU-wide technical he gives the report strong support and shows a standards for interoperability, known as TSIs, set out commitment to adopting an urgent approach to the comprehensive safety standards, including for long recommendations. tunnels. The Channel Tunnel, though, has distinct and unique standards. We were not convinced that the 5.17 pm Channel Tunnel is a unique case. Two committee members, the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, who is Lord Faulkner of Worcester: My Lords, I congratulate sadly not in his place today and is unable to attend this the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, on the excellent debate, and the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley—together way in which she introduced this debate. I do not think they are the most knowledgeable train experts in that she said a word with which I disagreed. I also Parliament—paid their own expenses to go to Switzerland congratulate her and the other members of the sub- to investigate the justification. They were not persuaded committee on producing a very impressive report. and, when we heard their comments, neither were we. As many of your Lordships know, I am a passionate The Government’s response was to state that: supporter of the railways and I am keen always to see “Detailed work is underway to address the remaining issues. their role in the provision of national and international Where this work demonstrates that specific requirements are no transport expand. It is clear that the sub-committee longer necessary, we anticipate that those requirements will be shares that view. Fifty years ago, the railways of Europe rescinded”. looked very different from how they look today, but When does my noble friend the Minister anticipate common specifications set out by the International that the work will be completed and how long afterwards Union of Railways meant that rolling stock could will the requirements be rescinded? This exercise is cross the continent regardless of national boundaries, delaying the ability of other operators to provide albeit with a change of locomotive at frontiers. additional services, thereby inhibiting competition; Some of us are old enough to remember the blue competition which would almost certainly benefit the sleeping cars drawn up at Calais Maritime behind a consumer. Of course, safety is paramount, but it should steam locomotive ready to take British passengers not be used as a smokescreen. from Calais to the south of France or to Venice. You The sixth of the identified obstacles that I choose to could take a direct train from Paris to Istanbul or from deal with in this debate relates to security. It is an Ostend to Moscow. Trains of fruit from Spain, motor obstacle to expansion. Of course, we are much more scooters from Italy or manufactured goods from Germany security conscious today than we were when the Channel and France crossed on train ferries, as did the night Tunnel first opened for business and, sadly, concerns ferry sleeping car train each night from Paris and in this area are unlikely to decrease. All areas of our Brussels to Victoria. Then, in the 1970s, with the lives are affected but there is a widespread feeling that development of high-speed routes, new multiple-unit the measures and methods employed in this area seem trains and the move to containers, this universal to be somewhat inefficient. The tunnel uses what are compatibility broke down. The market failed to deliver called “juxtaposed border controls”—yet another strange a common solution, national railways focused on internally phrase—involving the checking by both UK and French set objectives and the European Commission was slow officials before authorisation for departure. With the to react to those changes. hoped for extension and expansion of services, this From being the odd one out in Europe in the 1960s, process could be unsustainable. The Government must Britain is now at the heart of railway technical and look again at their approach here and their commitment operational development. Eurostar shows how trains to reviewing these arrangements is very welcome. can cross frontiers seamlessly, not just between Britain I return to the need for customer focus. Consumer and France but on into Belgium as well, and soon interests must be brought to the fore. Chapter 6 of the further into Germany and the Netherlands. Far from 1511 European Rail Market: EUC Report[14 JUNE 2012] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1512 changing the locomotive at the frontier, the train crews by the Department for Transport as the specifier of themselves work right through to Paris and Brussels. franchised services on the route, but the needs of In this case, the different technical standards in each freight and two open-access passenger operators have country have been overcome with the remarkable trains been protected as well. that can, at the turn of a selector in the driver’s cab, The question therefore is: can Eurotunnel perform handle four different types of traction current and that role or does this need action by the IGC or a signalling systems. specially convened group of train planners from Network Today’s debate is important because, as the noble Rail, Eurotunnel and the French infrastructure owners? Baroness said, there is scope to attract more people to I am advised by Eurostar that Eurotunnel declines to use international rail services and because much more take part in any of the intra-European path allocation needs to be done to encourage rail freight through the discussions and it has not been keen on changing tunnel. The sub-committee’s report makes an important passenger train paths, even when that would reduce contribution to moving this argument forward. journey times or allow more trains to use the tunnel at Cross-channel services are always going to be more peak times. complex to operate than domestic services because of Eurostar also makes the point that the current the involvement of Eurotunnel, which has its own structure of access charges needs to be reviewed. The shuttle services to consider, and the fact that the only per-passenger toll is preventing new markets from link to the rest of Europe requires the active co-operation being developed which would otherwise be able to of SNCF between Coquelles and the Belgian border. cover the direct operational costs. There needs to be a On the freight side, international traffic via the lot more openness and transparency in the allocation Channel Tunnel seems not to be a priority for SNCF. and recovery of costs and there needs to be a proper In the past, this has been reflected in poor reliability policy for discounts. and problems in arranging additional trains at short As an example, if we compare a London to Paris notice. Whatever technical or legal solutions are proposed, journey, the total infrastructure charges—that is, terminal clearly a lot of work needs to be done to encourage a costs, handling fees and landing charges—for a flight different approach by SNCF. are around £2,400; for a Eurostar train to Paris they On freight, it is always going to be difficult to build are £21,500, of which the tunnel accounts for £12,500. rail market share when the cost of taking a container Even taking account of the fact that a Eurostar train through the tunnel can be lower using a lorry on tends to carry two and a half times as many people as Eurotunnel’s shuttle compared with a freight train, a plane, that is still a huge difference. and this reflects the usage charge. There needs to be a The sub-committee is right to draw attention to the move towards charging avoidable costs for freight—as spare capacity that exists in the Channel Tunnel, to is the case on Network Rail at home—if market share which the noble Baroness referred, but it is not hard to is to have a chance to grow. see why that exists. It is my belief—I think that the There is little in the way of fair competition between Government share this view—that the future lies with road and rail freight. European hauliers do not pay longer-distance high-speed rail travel. I hope that the towards UK infrastructure costs, for example, nor do Minister will say that when he replies. The desirability they pay fuel duty if they fill up before crossing to of building a new high-speed railway obviously has Folkestone. The choices are difficult: there needs to be not been part of the sub-committee’s remit for this either some form of subsidy or cross-subsidy for rail inquiry, but I suggest that it is relevant when taking a freight operators to use Eurotunnel’s infrastructure or rather longer view, particularly taking into account a charge for other European hauliers to use the the Government’s decision to abandon the building of infrastructure that Britain currently provides at no a third runway at Heathrow or to expand other capacity cost to them. at other airports in the south-east—a policy that I The sub-committee is right to draw attention to the support, as the Minister knows. The correct approach, inherent contradictions surrounding Eurotunnel’s in my view, is to manage demand for short-haul air operation. This is Britain’s only fixed link to mainland travel and for us to follow other countries by building Europe. It is a privately owned concession where the high-speed rail capacity.The central part of that approach concessionaire also runs a shuttle service for freight will be to make proper use of the Channel Tunnel, and passengers, and, at the same time, it is the which is why I think that the sub-committee is on the infrastructure authority for through trains, which right lines. themselves have to fit both Eurotunnel’s train paths Finally, I want to say something about another and the available paths on Network Rail and its French barrier to long-distance international rail travel that equivalent. we have erected for ourselves in Britain. One weekend Up to now, this process has been left to the market. last month, I travelled by train from Budapest to The sub-committee’s report shows that this is not Berlin and then back to Brussels, passing through five working and, as demand increases, action will be different countries. I was not subjected to a single needed to optimise the use of the one pair of tracks passport or security check throughout the journey. that link the British and French rail networks. Our When I got to Brussels and took the Eurostar to own British experience on the east coast main line is St Pancras, there were three passport examinations that the only way to optimise capacity on a constrained and my luggage was searched before I got on board. railway with multiple operators is by strong focused With great respect to the Government, it is not good planning of the way in which that capacity is used. In enough for them to assert that these checks are necessary the case of the east coast main line, this has been done because Britain is not part of Schengen, and the 1513 European Rail Market: EUC Report[LORDS] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1514

[LORD FAULKNER OF WORCESTER] not a major incentive for people to switch to rail; they sub-committee is right to draw attention to that. We are deterred by the stress and time involved in airport are not searched when we board long-distance trains checks, the delays to air travel and the extra charges in Britain and I see no reason why the railway should that are often well hidden until you are a long way into be dragged down to the level of the airlines in this the process. To that, I would add the time and expense respect. I am disappointed that the Government’s of travelling to and from major airports. Heathrow response to the Select Committee report seems to be Express is a lovely service but—my goodness—at £34 for so inflexible on this issue. a standard return fare, it is very expensive. The Man in I conclude as I began, by expressing my admiration Seat Sixty-One estimates that these factors account for to the sub-committee for producing a good report, 80% of the incentive to switch to rail, and climate which if implemented would be of real value to the change only 20%. What I conclude from that is that railways, rail passengers and the country as a whole. the desired modal shift will not just happen because people will have an attack of green consciousness but 5.27 pm because it will be easier for them. We will have to work on that. Baroness Scott of Needham Market: I thank the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, for so ably introducing The good news is that clearly there is capacity in the today’s debate, and should like to say how much I look tunnel. I was struck by that two years ago when the forward to being a member of EU Sub-Committee B volcanic ash cloud halted air travel all over Europe. as a refugee from my spiritual home of Sub-Committee G. The Channel Tunnel provided a much needed and very valued way to move passengers at a difficult time. For much of its long history the Channel Tunnel However, it was only able to do so because it was so was primarily thought of as an Anglo-French or Franco- underused. The initial forecasts of 17 million to 20 million English enterprise, and its construction pretty much passengers a year proved wildly optimistic, with today’s entirely predates European Union rail policy. The figure being in the region of 9 million to 10 million. As report highlights very well how utterly that context we have heard, the evidence is that less than 50% of has changed, and how poorly the single rail market passenger capacity is being used, and 10% of freight functions across Europe because of what I would capacity. I am not aware of any capacity issues on the charitably describe as patchy compliance with the road network on either side of the tunnel that would liberalisation agenda. It is interesting to speculate on prevent growth in usage, nor on the High Speed 1 whether the tunnel’s current operation itself is a hindrance side—although, as the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, to growth or a victim of the conformity of much of said, there are issues in northern France. I hope that the rest of Europe to liberalisation. the Minister will say whether the Government are Personally, although I have a scintilla of sympathy addressing these with the French Government. with the view of the Office of the Rail Regulator—which Competition is undoubtedly the best way to get a cautioned against revising the treaty of Canterbury on good deal for passengers, and I share many concerns the understandable grounds that the protracted nature expressed in the report about the potential for the of the process would divert attention away from more current arrangements utterly to distort competition. immediate issues facing the railway—I believe that so Access charges are high, and make freight travel in much has changed in the quarter century since it was particular simply not competitive with travel by sea—or signed that a review is inevitable. The sub-committee even, as we have heard, with travel through the tunnel. has done a great service in highlighting some areas The access charge alone for a passenger on Eurostar is where the governance is working against passenger £32. That will severely restrict its competitiveness against interests and those of freight. Of course an adverse air travel EU ruling on the tunnel’s arrangements and whether they conform to rail legislation might force the matter, The decision-making process is riddled with conflicts so perhaps I may gently suggest to the Government of interest. One is the involvement of the UK and that they look at jumping before they are pushed. French Governments through the IGC. The bureaucratic The stated objective of the EU and, indeed, of the nature of decision-making makes change very difficult. UK Government is to see a transfer from short-haul The report is right to call for a more transparent flights to rail. That is certainly understandable from a system to determine whether high access charges can climate change point of view. However, setting that be justified, taking into account the fact that Eurotunnel aside, it makes sense to make better use of the very is solely reliant on access charges for its income, and to limited capacity at our busy airports. Whatever we deal with its historic debt. Of course, it gets no public think about an extra runway at Heathrow or increasing subsidy. A more transparent system would give clarity capacity elsewhere—or even “Boris Island”—it will about how charges are allocated between users, which take years to get that sort of extra capacity. Therefore, is crucial given Eurotunnel’s role as both an infrastructure making better use of rail is a sensible part of aviation provider and operator. It may be that independent strategy. The enthusiasm of Deutsche Bahn to develop regulation is the answer. routes between Amsterdam, Frankfurt and London is Yesterday’s press carried reports of the ruling by a a good example. I hope that progress can be made on French commercial tribunal that approved Eurotunnel’s the scheme, which is currently mired in what look purchase of three ferries from the liquidated Sea suspiciously like restrictive practices. France ferry company. Eurotunnel will continue to I was compelled by evidence given to the committee employ the 560 former workers and run the services. by The Man in Seat Sixty-One. It chimed with my This may be welcome for the workers, but it adds personal experience that reducing carbon emissions is another layer of complexity to the nature of the 1515 European Rail Market: EUC Report[14 JUNE 2012] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1516 charging and competition regime. I would not be I shall not repeat or comment on any of the excellent surprised if the EU competition authorities did not points already made. However, I note that three former take an interest. colleagues of mine on European Sub-Committee B Like the noble Baroness, I am very concerned about are in their places. They will be speaking in the debate the insistence that the tunnel maintain its own safety and I look forward to their contributions. I shall focus standards rather than the EU-wide TSIs. This is being on the passenger rail part of the report and also on the used as a barrier to new entrants to the market, and I Channel Tunnel. would like to see more evidence that after all this time On a lighter note, I notice in the report that some the tunnel requires bespoke standards. The comparison evidence was taken from a frequent traveller—The with tunnels elsewhere is valid. My noble friend Lord Man in Seat Sixty-One—of Eurostar. I have to say Fearn recently received a Written Answer that stated that that is my favourite seat. I hope that it was not me, that there were 64 accidents in the Channel Tunnel last because I have now completed more than 100 journeys year. Will the Minister say how this compares with on Eurostar in the past 10 years. tunnels elsewhere, and what it says about the operation of separate standards? My first point relates to capacity. I am somewhat sceptical of the comment in the report—I think that it I was persuaded by the evidence that the so-called comes from Her Majesty’s Government—that the tunnel juxtaposed border controls should be looked at again is being used at only 50% of its capacity. I am not in terms of the time and cost of operating them to wholly convinced by that, because if there is to be a both passengers and rail operators. The feasibility of better, more frequent service for the passenger, as on-board passenger and passport checks is an advantage opposed to freight—and obviously that will also happen that rail has over air which ought not to be lost. I am during the course of the day—we should not assume pleased to see that the Home Office, at least, looks that there is a relatively infinite amount of capacity open to it. available. I am not asking the Minister to respond to I have looked at this issue from the point of view that point; I am merely pointing out that there are of modal shift—there are many dimensions to it— limitations. Once you get an electrical fault or a train and I look forward to the contributions of other running slowly through the tunnel, traffic quickly noble Lords, although I can see that this will be one of backs up. I also believe strongly in keeping the fast those debates in which there is a huge amount of Channel Tunnel service at two hours and 15 minutes agreement. from London St Pancras to Gare du Nord. That is a real prize and we are seeing more and more passengers, 5.35 pm particularly business people, switching from short-haul air services to Eurostar. Lord Freeman: My Lords, in common with those noble Lords who have already spoken, I warmly welcome My second point concerns Waterloo, which looks the report. It is a good example of how your Lordships’ like a white elephant at the moment. Is it likely to be House can perform a real service in comparison with available for additional passenger services coming through the other place. Here, we have a process of thorough the tunnel? I do not know what the long-term plans examination on an all-party basis—often not on a are so far as British Rail is concerned, but it is an asset partisan basis; the Government then respond and then which has remained empty for far too long. The there is a debate. There is no similar process in the reason for switching from Waterloo to St Pancras was other place. the enthusiasm of my noble friends Lord Heseltine and Lord MacGregor for the possibility of linking The committee will welcome the attention to detail into a through service to the Midlands and the north of the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and I am sure that of England. Practically that is not possible at the she will add a great deal to the work of the European moment, because you have to get off the train at Union Committee. St Pancras and catch a normal Intercity train. I will I particularly welcome the report because it is clear, not ask the Minister to comment because it is a extensive and comprehensive and has enabled the detailed operational point, but it could be a prize. Government to respond fully and clearly. I add my thanks and congratulations to my noble friend Lady Like others present in the Chamber, I have suffered O’Cathain; she has done a marvellous job. I think that from long delays—particularly, it has to be said, at many noble Lords who are not in their places today Gare du Nord. We should look carefully at ways of and who do not serve on Select Committees do not speeding up the process of looking at passports and, if fully appreciate the amount of work that a chairman, necessary, examining luggage on the train. The police in particular, puts in. I congratulate her on behalf of and the authorities have ample opportunity to detain my colleagues and, I am sure, on behalf of the whole anyone who does not have the correct papers. House. I have two final points, although the Minister does I pay tribute also to my noble friend Lord Roper. not necessarily have to respond to them today, but He is no longer chairman of the full committee but he perhaps he will be kind enough to do so in writing. performed a Herculean task with good grace, courtesy First, I shall quote from the Government response to and thoroughness. We should not forget that a sub- the report: committee reports to the main committee. The main “We are currently considering with France”— committee then goes through its report with a fine-toothed comb and sometimes improves it. The whole House that means the French authorities— owes a great deal of gratitude to my noble friend Lord “the most effective way of implementing the EU Interoperability Roper. directive in relation to the Channel Tunnel”. 1517 European Rail Market: EUC Report[LORDS] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1518

[LORD FREEMAN] first railway package. Have the European Commission Have events moved on and what is the present status? and the European Parliament taken any further action Secondly, is there any more up to date information on to enforce this package? We were told that they were the proposed Deutsche Bahn passenger service, which due to debate this. I think we would all welcome? I am not clear as to why The Independent Regulators Group seems to be there is a delay on the part of the German railway working. In their response, the Government tell us authorities and Government in pursuing negotiations that the group has a full programme of monitoring of for access. work and developments. If I may say so, it at least is I conclude by taking this opportunity to thank our travelling in the right direction. The work is due to be officials. It is quite rare to do so—certainly it is extremely completed this year. Can the Minister tell us how it is rare in the other place. But we should be very conscious going? of the excellent work performed for all the sub-committees, It is right to ask why this is important. What is there and particularly the main committee, by civil servants. to be gained? The answer lies in figure 3 on page 35 of I would be grateful if my noble friend would communicate our report: the core network map for 2030. According my thanks. to this map, by then we will be connected to an impressive rail network throughout the European Union. 5.42 pm If it is efficient, united and convenient, it will provide a Lord Haskel: My Lords, serving on one of your service that will attract the consumer, help the single Lordships’ committees is a wonderful way of getting market and help cut fuel emissions. to know your fellow Peers. The depth of knowledge As my noble friend Lord Faulkner explained, our and experience never ceases to amaze me. The noble connection to this network is through the Channel Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, mentioned the noble Lord, Tunnel, and this connection is crucial. The impression Lord Bradshaw. He really is a walking database on that we got from the witnesses was that the tunnel is railways. He and my noble friend Lord Berkeley used not working well. First, our graph in figure 2 on page to be walking encyclopaedias, but of course they do 28 shows that the number of passengers is levelling off. not exist any more. It was a pleasure to serve with my Incidentally, the volume of freight is decreasing, which noble friend and everyone else. is very worrying. Our chair, the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, has As other noble Lords have said, we were surprised a special concern for the consumer, something that no to learn that there is unused capacity through the doubt she learnt during her business career. It is that tunnel. My noble friend Lady O’Cathain gave us the concern about the well-being of the railway traveller numbers. The noble Lord, Lord Freeman, doubts this moving across European frontiers that is central to but the evidence we had from our witnesses was pretty this report. An interest that we all share is to promote definite: there could be a lot more passenger trains the environmental friendliness of rail travel. For my going direct to other cities in Europe apart from Paris part, I find it more convenient and pleasant to travel and Brussels. Yes, a service to Germany is planned, by rail than by car or aeroplane. but the start seems to be getting later and later. They We were very fortunate to have John Turner and are now talking about 2015. Michael Torrance, and then Mark Davies, as our Since our report was published, Eurostar announced clerks and policy advisers. They were towers of strength that it was “eyeing”—whatever that means—adding and I thank them. up to 10 new routes from St Pancras to Holland, The conclusion of our report has been reflected in Germany, southern France and Switzerland. This is what a number of other noble Lords have said. A lot because with HS1 you can actually save time compared more can be done to make cross-border rail travel in with flying when travelling from city centre to city Europe easier, quicker, cheaper and more convenient. centre. But it is talking about 2016 or even 2017, even What is required is a much greater sense of urgency though HS1 has now been operational for two years. and priority—in Whitehall as much as in Brussels. The This has come about through competition. It will only framework is there, the talking goes on, but the action happen because Eurostar is going to lose its monopoly is slow. For instance, the principles are agreed but on high-speed services through the Channel Tunnel. member states are not implementing the railway packages Even so, I am sure that noble Lords will agree that this equally. For this to happen, the European Railway is disappointingly slow. Agency needs to be a lot more effective. All this Are there any other reasons why this extra capacity discriminates against new access to the rail infrastructure is not in use already? The noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, by creating technical and administrative barriers, which gave us several answers. I agree with her that the vary from nation state to nation state. This is what impression that we were given is that access charges creates the barrier to international operations. are high and unpredictable. My noble friend Lord A recast of the first railway package designed to Faulkner put the figure at £12,000 from some briefing establish a single European railway area is being discussed. that came from Eurostar, but I share with the noble The UK National Parliament Office in Brussels reports Baroness, Lady Scott, the impression that they are that a fourth railway package has been drafted to unpredictable. As we say in our report, new entrants make things even better, but it all depends on the will be deterred if the access charges are not fair, agreement to be reached on the recast of the first predictable and readily available. railway package. In their response to our report, the In their wonderfully bureaucratic response to the Government are obviously as frustrated as we are that question of access charges, the Government recommend the Commission is not using its powers to enforce the caution because of the complexity of making pricing 1519 European Rail Market: EUC Report[14 JUNE 2012] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1520 judgments. All I can say is that other regulators make 5.54 pm pricing judgments every day of the week, in water, Lord Berkeley: My Lords, first, I declare an interest electricity, gas and even within UK railway travel, so as chairman of the Rail Freight Group and a board why not with the Channel Tunnel? This must be a member of the European Rail Freight Association. I major factor in the underutilisation of the tunnel and spent 15 years in my comparative youth building the the lack of competition. Channel Tunnel, and I recall having many debates Other noble Lords have mentioned border controls. with the noble Lord, Lord Freeman, who was one of It is a question not only of immigration but of terrorism, the best Transport Ministers I can remember. We dealt both of which are important factors. Integral with this with a lot of local problems and, sometimes, national is the right to cabotage, which would help generate problems. It was a pleasure to work with him and is more demand and make international services profitable. great to see him in his place today, because he started Perhaps the Minister can say whether anything is many of the things that we have today. happening about this. I am sorry that I was not involved with the forecasting, which many noble Lords have criticised, or negotiating Witnesses told us that interoperability is a major the contracts, which I am about to criticise, but there factor. The European Rail Agency really has to be we are. We have had one of the best informed debates I more proactive in this area. The Government in their can remember. There is remarkable expertise in this response agree, saying that the European Rail House and remarkable unanimity of view, which we Agency’s work on interoperability is planned to can probably sum up as saying: it is time that the conclude in summer 2012. Well, the calendar, if not Government got moving on this to make the changes the weather, tell us that it is now the summer. What is that this excellent report has recommended. I support happening? everything that is in it. Of course, I gave evidence as well. Ticketing is another barrier. You just cannot buy a through-ticket from one European railway station to I have just one issue on capacity before I get into another. That is understandable if it is from one minor structure, which is my main subject. The noble Lord, station to another, but it applies also to tickets from Lord Freeman, will remember lots of debate about one major terminus to another. You still have to buy capacity through the tunnel, but capacity in a line such different tickets for different parts of the journey and, as this depends on all the trains going at the same of course, there is no consistency in price. Booking speed. The original capacity design was 24 paths an cross-border tickets on the internet is virtually impossible. hour in each direction which, if the signalling was We heard some wonderful evidence from the man upgraded, could be increased to 30. You could not run from the website The Man in Seat Sixty-One, who 30 trains, but you could run with a few spaces. The explained the intricacies—his evidence also impressed noble Lord will probably remember that Eurotunnel the noble Baroness, Lady Scott—and he works full announced a few weeks ago that it will speed up the time advising people on how to book tickets across shuttle trains to keep up to the same speed as the Europe, particularly on the internet. He makes a living Eurostar to get more trains through the tunnel during out of it. the Olympics. There is plenty of capacity there and I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, that Passengers’ rights also need to be clarified, even very little of it is being used for the through services. though, as the Government point out in their response, Another issue is immigration. I shall not speak passengers on international rail journeys within the about that for very long, because I said quite a lot EU are covered by specific conditions. However, it is about that during the Second Reading debate on the still unclear what happens if you miss a connection Crime and Courts Bill, and the noble Lord, Lord because your train is late and the ticket price is different Henley, has agreed to meet me before Committee on on the next train. Part 3. I sense that other noble Lords may wish to participate in such a meeting, and I shall be in touch, We have been assured that all these problems—and because I agree that the current situation is absolute others which I have not mentioned but other noble chaos and, frankly, an insult to visitors coming to this Lords have—are being tackled by the intergovernmental country. committee which operates through the treaty of Canterbury, and that consumers’concerns are paramount. The report rightly states that the Channel Tunnel However, I repeat that my impression, like that of should be seen as part of the European rail infrastructure. other noble Lords, is that the whole thing must be As many noble Lords have said, it is good for economic speeded up. It is slow because there is little competition and cost reasons that the tunnel should not be seen as both through the Channel Tunnel and across international a barrier to traffic and trade. There is a long way to go borders; it is slow because officials, by definition, are before that is achieved both in the tunnel and across too distant from the consumer. Europe. The noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, rightly talked about fragmentation. If the Government can find more ways of introducing I shall speak primarily about the structure, which I competition, there will be a much greater sense of think is blocking change at the moment. The first urgency initiated by the operating companies. Then we railway package, completed in 2001, set a structure will all benefit from a fast and efficient passenger and regulatory changes to make the European railways railway system across Europe that is both consumer- more competitive, cost-effective and interoperable. Thirteen friendly and environmentally friendly. The potential is member states are currently being infracted against by there; the framework is there; it just requires the effort. the Commission for non-compliance with legislation 1521 European Rail Market: EUC Report[LORDS] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1522

[LORD BERKELEY] the regulator has been part of the Department for that they agreed to in 2001, which is incredible. They Transport, which owns parts of Eurostar. Our include the big ones: Germany, France—my noble Government need to be congratulated because they friend Lord Faulkner referred to the problems in are now moving the whole of the UK side of the France; he is absolutely right—and Italy. intergovernmental commission to the Office of Rail I was interested in the evidence to the committee Regulation—but of course the French Government from the Italian railways, who said with one breath have not done that yet. Finally, there is the issue of that the freight in Italy has been liberalised and everything “capacity allocation”, which is again not independent. is fine and that the next thing will be international The Commission’s paper is called an EU pilot and it is passenger transport, but in fact—this is happening in digging very hard into the detail. I would be very France as well—they are complaining bitterly about interested to know from the Minister whether the what is happening in other countries but making very Government are resisting any requests for information sure that no competition can happen in theirs. As just from the Commission or are being proactive in response. one example, the Italian Government and the incumbent Similarly, do the Government accept that the first railway, FS, are trying to prevent other operators railway package applies in full to the Channel Tunnel? getting access to tracks and terminals. It is encouraging Turning to the access charges which other noble its Government to introduce rules saying that all operators Lords have mentioned, article 8 of directive 2001/14 is must provide mobile rescue cranes every 500 miles—not the relevant one. I was a little disappointed with the one set of cranes around the country but each operator committee’s response. It seemed to think that because having to have his own set of cranes. This is of course Eurotunnel is in the private sector it should be able to, because the incumbent has a lot of old cranes and “set access charges at a market rate subject to their obligations nobody else has. Every train will have to have two under EU law”. drivers, because the FS ones have two, but nobody else That is right; it should be able to set its charges under needs them—the passenger ones do not— while no those obligations, which I will come to, but I would leased wagons may be used. They introduced this submit that its being in the private sector is not particularly legislation at zero notice, so in theory if the independent relevant. In their response on Eurotunnel, however, operators were running a train on the main line with the Government say in paragraph 140: leased wagons, they would have had to put the brakes on, stop and block everything. This has been going on “EU legal requirements have been fully implemented”. for the past two years, while the Italian authorities and I would challenge that. the chairman of Italian railways go around Europe Other noble Lords have spoken about the charges, saying, “We are fully liberalised”. They are not. but there is more to it than that. If we look at the five Where does the Channel Tunnel come into all this issues the Commission has put in the pilot, Eurotunnel and does it comply with the first railway package? The has not demonstrated that its infrastructure management committee thought not but the government response is sufficiently separate from its freight operation, its said that it does. In paragraph 135 of the response to passenger operation or from the freight and passenger the report, the Government say: shuttles. The shuttles are exempt from the legislation, “The UK complies with the First Railway Package in full”— but they have to be looked at separately. There is no in full— separation of accounts. There is some progress in the “both in respect of the domestic network and the Channel network statement, but not enough. I have mentioned Tunnel”. the regulatory body and that the access charges are Well, they do on the domestic network but the too high, so basically the UK gets one out of five and Commission does not think that they are on the France gets nought out of five, which is a pretty poor Channel Tunnel, because it started infraction proceedings record 11 years after the first railway package came against the UK and France in February 2011. It is odd into effect. that the government response did not mention this. I do not accept the committee’s view that access When the Commission is infracting a member state, charges should come down in the medium term. There surely it is relevant to the Government’s response to a is much more to it than that. Several noble Lords report. I have all the papers; I could have had a few quoted the charges. I shall quote some in a slightly more, except that they rejected my freedom of information different way. The charge per train kilometre for a requests, but I have quite a few. The first concerns the Eurostar is £36 on HS1, £13 on the high-speed line in subjects of the infraction. I shall summarise them France and £225 on the Channel Tunnel. In the tunnel, because they are rather long but they are important. it averages about 10 times the charge on the other side. The first concern is on the “independence of essential For freight, the evidence that MDS Transmodal submitted functions”, which means that the infrastructure manager to the committee was that the charge is about £3,000 a is not owned by the same company as the train operator train—it varies quite a lot. It argued that it should be because that operator otherwise gets preferential treatment, £1,000 to attract significantly more traffic, bearing in as happened in Italy. The second is that there should mind that there are about five freight trains a day be separate accounts for infrastructure managers and going through at the moment. If you stand on the operations and that has not happened, according to M20 at Ashford and count the number of trucks, you the Commission. The third is on rail access charges, could fill 200 trains a day. I suggest that there is which a number of noble Lords have mentioned and something wrong there. to which I shall come back because they are very high. How is the charge arrived at? This is the problem. The fourth is on an independent regulatory body. There is a rail usage contract that dates back 1985. Until about now, it has not been independent because The noble Lord, Lord Freeman, may even remember 1523 European Rail Market: EUC Report[14 JUNE 2012] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1524 it. It was designed to give a government guarantee to report in front of your Lordships contains, in box 2, Eurotunnel from the two railways: British Rail and the treaty of Canterbury. Whatever anyone has said so SNCF. The charges were based on full cost recovery— far, after 25 years that treaty is out of date and should fine—fixed costs and variable costs plus a mark up. be looked at very carefully. I think that someone has The problem is that the two companies that signed, already drawn attention to the fact that on page 28 which are now DB Schenker and Eurostar, pay the there are unimpressive figures for passengers and freight; charges on the basis of the rail usage contract, which certainly those for freight are totally unimpressive. has now been turned into a network statement. If On page 35 there is the core network map of what anybody else comes along, like Deutsche Bahn, it will the railway is going to look like in 2030. Once again, be paying the same amount, but will also be paying a there is no route to East Anglia or the West Country, charge that reflects the fixed costs of the tunnel. nor any route to Scotland north of Edinburgh. Has Something in me says that Eurotunnel is going to get anyone heard of Swindon, Bristol, Truro, Harwich or the fixed costs paid twice. That does not seem right. Felixstowe? None of those will be on decent railway The whole thing is a complete mess and it needs lines. The present capacity, shown in paragraph 74 on completely restructuring on the lines of article 8 of page 29, of less than 50% of the amount of passengers directive 2001/14. There is a marginal cost, a fixed cost that could be taken and less than 10% of the freight, is and an allowance for financing with a calculation of quite extraordinary. Perhaps it is too expensive per how much the market can bear, all supervised by the train per kilometre. regulator, which is a joint regulator independent of In our village at home, there is a gentleman, now government. I can go on about fixed costs and fire retired, who owns his own articulated lorry and spent suppression, but I think that, in interests of time, I had his life going all over Europe picking up trailers and better not. bringing them back. He said that without doubt he What we have here is a wasted asset for passengers would rather go on the ferry than through the tunnel. and freight that is, after all, the mode of transport Why? Because it was easier to get on the ferry—not supported by the Commission, the UK Government that there is any difficulty getting on to the train, but and, no doubt, the French Government. The committee you then go and sit in some nasty little carriage up at recommended root and branch restructuring of the the front, and a few moments later you arrive in Channel Tunnel. The noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, France. If you go on a ferry you can have a nice little referred to that. The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, relax, you can fill your—you know what I mean. talked about competition. She is absolutely right. We all believe in fair and transparent competition. This is what Sir Roy McNulty is saying about the UK, and it Lord Berkeley: Flask. is no different. If you want growth, you need competition, but any competition to make it work must be fair and Lord Walpole: Yes. You can get everything right. I transparent. I hope that the Government will set an like railways and I like the tunnel, but if you go from example to all the other member states that are failing Norwich to Liverpool Street, you go to a place called and take this forward, take on the recommendations Stratford. Youcannot change at Stratford on to anything of the committee and let us see some urgent change. else; you have to get a train either to Ebbsfleet or to St Pancras. That is extraordinary. I should think that I 6.09 pm have used the tunnel about four to five times a year—in Lord Walpole: Oh dear. All I can say is: how do I other words, eight to 10 journeys a year—ever since it follow that? That is the expert. I will try. My family started, both by car and by Eurostar, and I must say were Members of Parliament for Kings Lynn on and that I have always enjoyed it because one has got the off since about 1350 until the end of the 19th century. hang of how to enjoy it. I wondered what they felt about the possibility of a Through ticketing simply must be introduced. When Channel tunnel, and indeed I know perfectly well what my ancestor was 200 and I was 60 in the same year on they thought: they preferred to use the Hanseatic the same day, we decided that we would go to The League and did not want somewhere for the French to Hague. How many tickets did we need for that? Well, be able to march over to Dover. you work it out. We started on Eurostar and ended up The report and the Government’s response to it are on some Dutch train, which was superb—but, yes, we an invaluable record of the position on 8 December will not go into that. 2011. That is my birthday. It is also the day of the Now, finally, I say thank you very much to the Immaculate Conception. I do not know whether noble noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, for being a very Lords ought to draw a line between the two. The noble good chairman, bullying us all, making us speak, and Lord, Lord Berkeley, did not mention immaculate helping us very much indeed. I also say thanks to our conception, did he? No. clerk and to Elaine Morgan, who were 100% behind the committee. We could not have acted without them. Lord Berkeley: I did not draw a line, either. 6.16 pm Lord Walpole: Over certain distances, there is no Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: My Lords, I commence doubt that the train should be better than the air. It by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, for should be cheaper, should be better for the environment, keeping us on the rails all the way through this exercise, should be better for time and should be more comfortable, and keeping us pointed in the right direction in a though whether or not that is true, I do not know. The non-bullying way. I thank, too, our clerks, who gave us 1525 European Rail Market: EUC Report[LORDS] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1526

[LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE] of the marvellous technical expertise that went into it. such great assistance during the course of the committee, However, regrettably, as others have said, as yet we and I particularly thank colleagues who have left the have failed completely to deliver the fulfilment of that committee since we concluded the report, as well as vision. This came from the evidence of the people who the new ones who have joined us. I also express my came before the committee. They were almost unanimous gratitude to all the people who provided evidence to in saying that the tunnel has not delivered all that was us, both orally and in writing, which was very useful hoped of it and that there is still a long way to go, even indeed. though it is such an amazing piece of infrastructure It is some months, of course, since we concluded that is capable of delivering such public good, not just the exercise, the report appeared and we got the for the UK and France but over a much wider front Government’s response. It is quite interesting to see throughout Europe. what has happened in the mean time. I have gone back The witnesses—even those from Eurotunnel, with and reread our report and the Government’s response, their projections—were also unanimous in saying that and I have also picked up on one or two things on the we still do not have enough foot passengers travelling internet that have happened. I see, first, that there has on the train and we are well short of how much rail been quite a major breakdown—a health and safety freight there should be. The figures are very low indeed issue in April in the tunnel. Secondly, immigration, a in comparison with the original projections. Indeed, as topic which we touched on, has moved up the agenda my noble friend Lord Haskel pointed out, they have significantly since we addressed the issue last year. I been falling off in recent years, which is of great think we found that, in retrospect, the Minister’s response concern. Interestingly, our witnesses all felt that this at that time was somewhat complacent. She said that was not good enough. They all felt that we should be we will have sorted it out by the time that we get round trying harder and going for growth. I was very pleased to Deutsche Bahn extending the run through to that the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, introduced Amsterdam and into Cologne; whereas the reality is the debate by pointing to the importance of growth in that, as has now been indentified, many people have this context, both for this country and for Europe. been using the existing train system under current arrangements to come into the country illegally. This Our report endeavours to be constructive, to identify needs to be addressed with urgency from a variety of the areas in which performance has been falling down standpoints, as we have already heard. and to suggest a significant number of solutions to the problems. I regret that the Government’s response was not as positive as it might have been. I rather sensed Lord Berkeley: Is the noble Lord aware that Deutsche that our chairman felt the same. Their response did Bahn has said that it is not going to go ahead with its not have the enthusiasm and energy that the committee service until the immigration situation is sorted out? showed in addressing the topic. This came through both in the public performance of Ministers and their Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: I was not aware of supporters when they came before us and in the written that, my Lords, but it is a very important and significant document. No doubt the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, may point indeed. This will presumably be quite an obstacle put me right on that when he responds in his usual way. to making progress and introducing the new extended I found it quite surprising that, when we took lines for which many noble Lords have been calling. evidence from the Minister, she encouraged us by More recently, and thirdly, we have seen the saying that our report would provide a push in the announcement—the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, right direction. That hardly indicates a strong commitment. mentioned it, and I think that my noble friend Lord I hope that we will get some movement on this over Berkley may have said more on it—about allowing the next two years, so that when we get to 2014 we will Eurotunnel to take over SeaFrance’s cross-channel have seen some substantial changes. vessels. This takeover occurred within a matter of days In fairness to the Government, perhaps in retrospect and raises, as the Financial Times says, significant we should have invited the Mayor of London to give implications for competition and, in turn, charges, evidence. He would have talked about growth, London which I will come back to in a moment. My major and the importance of getting jobs for London. We point is about the charges. would have pointed out to him that the Channel Fourthly—and this is good news—I see that the Tunnel has an important part to play in such growth. number of foot passengers travelling through the tunnel Had we persuaded him that it was an issue on which over the past few weeks has increased significantly, he should campaign, we might have made more progress largely because of people wanting to come and participate with the Government, given the unusual way in which in the Jubilee celebrations. All those of us who want he can bring pressure to bear on them. Maybe that is this to be a successful venture will hope that that will something for us to bear in mind in future. continue into the Olympics and beyond. Those are the I come back to the importance of the report. The changes that have occurred since we concluded our Government have made some progress in addressing report. the governance of the IGC. This has been slow but at In two years, a major celebration will take place. In least the introduction of representatives from the Office 2014 we will celebrate 20 years since the Channel of Rail Regulation, and the enhanced role that is Tunnel first opened and all the worthy work that my envisaged for them in future, is a step in the right noble friend Lord Berkeley did on its construction. It direction and very positive. I was certainly very impressed was a truly amazing event when the tunnel opened. It by the evidence that we heard from those representatives was a great venture, a great vision and the fulfilment who are now on the IGC. They identified areas in 1527 European Rail Market: EUC Report[14 JUNE 2012] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1528 which questions were raised about the performance of two things. The first is that completion is a long way Eurotunnel. Mr Kogan, in particular, asked whether away when we do not have full implementation of the Eurotunnel’s charges were justifiably high or inexcusably first stage with regard to the Commission. Secondly, it high. I believe that that is at the heart of the whole concentrates on the specific British dimension of this issue of whether we move forward with the tunnel. He work—the Channel Tunnel—and is far from satisfied also raised questions about the absence of a performance with the present arrangements as regards that significant regime for Eurotunnel. In the UK, any company of enterprise. Of course, we all engage with the committee that size that did not have a performance regime in in its broad objective. There is a huge advantage and place would be severely criticised. Again, this is an benefit for the country if we can extend cross-border area where Eurotunnel needs to move forward and rail travel. In terms of travellers’ convenience and the ensure that it is open and clean about where it is going. broad environmental issues, we all know the potential Mr Kogan told us that the IGC had been working on advantages of rail over aircraft. That underpins the some of these issues for two years. As he appeared aspiration behind the report. before the committee last October, now it is close to The Minister will recognise that committee members three years. identified that the government response is somewhat I have looked at the latest reports on the internet. lacklustre. It is particularly lacklustre on the most The last report that the IGC produced related only to trenchant part of the committee’s report, in paragraph 136, 2010 and did not appear until September 2011. We are which says: still waiting for the report on 2011. In particular, I will “In the long-term, we support direct governance of the Channel leave the Minister with a question which he might not Tunnel by the UK and French national regulators”. be able to answer today. The Government’s response That is the objective for our part of completing a to paragraph 141 states: dimension of our contribution to the single market. I “The IGC is currently investigating the level and appropriateness should be grateful if the Minister would address himself of Eurotunnel’s charges and its Joint Economic Committee published to those points, although whether he accepts that the a report on the first phase of its work in October 2011. Further work is underway but will take some time because of the complexity treaty of Canterbury can be revised in such a dramatic of Eurotunnel’s accounting structures and financial flows. Until form is an interesting question. those investigations are concluded, and on the basis of the What has been identified in the debate are the evidence currently available, we would recommend caution in frustrations born of the existing structure for the assessing whether the level of the charges is appropriate”. Channel Tunnel, to which my noble friend Lord Faulkner I have looked at the website but can find nothing referred, along with the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, in about what is happening on that front. I have done mentioning the issue of access charges, and my noble some research elsewhere to find out what is happening. friend Lord Berkeley with his particular expertise, in It is now close to three years since this work was first discussing the direct operations of the Channel Tunnel. put in place. If the Minister cannot reply today, will he please reply to the committee in writing and tell us The other dimension also needs to be taken fully on when we can expect that research to be concluded so board. It was my noble friend Lord Faulkner who that we can see it? On that basis, I believe that we will dwelt most significantly on these matters. I refer to have a foundation on which we can move forward how limited the development of the single market is in profitably. so many countries in Europe, even those with railway systems that we all applaud. We should approach the European position with a little degree of modesty. 6.27 pm After all, there are some excellent rail systems in Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, first, I congratulate Europe, and it is the case that the British system the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, the chairman of compares ill in some crucial aspects. On the one highly the committee, on this report and acknowledge the significant feature—the report demonstrates that the enormous amount of work she has been involved in in concern is about the customer—the passenger in Britain producing this significant document. Proof of the pays 30% higher fares than in many European rail success of this work is the extent to which she has been systems. So we ought not to think that we can easily backed by noble Lords from her committee who have lecture other systems on improvement in circumstances made such telling contributions today. I shall refer to where our own house is not entirely in order. It is very those in detail in a moment. likely that we will be discussing these issues against the Ordinarily, these debates tend to revolve around the backdrop of ever-increasing fares in the British system. participation of committee members as they see the There is one other dimension on which the Minister conclusion of their work and want to see the Government’s will need to tread with some degree of care. Of course, response. The distinguishing feature of this debate is we all recognise the necessary emphasis in Britain on that there also have been contributions from noble border controls to preserve the protection of the public, Lords who are not members of the committee but who but it is also the case that the border controls at have made significant points which I hope the Minister present work in such a way as to produce the maximum has taken on board. In my short contribution, I want irksomeness for the average passenger without, from to dwell on one or two of those points in order to what one can see, very significantly enhancing the clarify the issues for the Minister and, therefore, aid security dimension. him in his response to the committee’s proposals. These are factors that should concern us. Tribute If I have one criticism of the report, it is probably in has already been paid to the noble Lord, Lord Roper, its title. It looks more like a statement of aspiration with regard to the European Union Committee over than a potential achievement. The report identifies many years. From that work, we know that the reports 1529 European Rail Market: EUC Report[LORDS] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1530

[LORD DAVIES OF OLDHAM] authorities, either DG Competition at the EU or the of this House are taken serious in Brussels. But on rail Office of Fair Trading, to determine whether any we will need to force the issue in a very sharp way change in market dominance raises competition issues. indeed as it is clear that there is an awful backlog to The noble Lord, Lord Brooke, also asked about the catch up. We must expect a more positive response 2011 report of the IGC. I do not expect inspiration to from Europe, but that above all means that we must arrive and therefore I will have to write to the noble have government support and a government initiative Lord. that is clear on its objectives and determined to ensure My noble friend Lady Scott of Needham Market that, even if we cannot complete the European rail talked about modal shift for passenger and freight. We market in the immediate future, we can take many recognise that modal shift from air and road to rail more significant strides than we have done in recent can generate important environmental and congestion years. benefits. However, rather than trying to force people away from car or air travel, we are working to support 6.35 pm sustainable travel choices. A number of barriers can Earl Attlee: My Lords, I start by congratulating the prevent behaviour change, including powerful ones committee, which was so ably chaired by my noble such as habit. friend Lady O’Cathain. The Government welcome the Studies have indeed indicated that the Channel sub-committee’s thorough report on the European rail Tunnel has spare capacity to accommodate growth. market and the role of the Channel Tunnel and have Although there have been indications that the rail provided a full response. As ever, I am on a strict freight share of the cross-Channel market would be timetable. higher if rates were lower, pricing judgments are inevitably We believe that a truly open, fair and liberalised subjective and it is always difficult to make accurate market would increase competition in international volume and revenue forecasts. However, in partial passenger services across the EU. We support the answer to the question from my noble friend Lord Commission’s overall aim of clarifying and strengthening Freeman, there is spare capacity for growth, as about the regulatory framework for rail access through the 50% of capacity is being used at the moment. first railway package recast. In particular, we endorse The noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester, suggested the need to ensure that there are adequately resourced that access charges for Eurotunnel are too high, and and properly independent regulatory bodies in order other noble Lords said as much. We have no clear to facilitate market entry and competition. evidence that Eurotunnel’s charges are inappropriate. The Government recognise that the Channel Tunnel However, the IGC is currently investigating the level is a unique piece of international transport infrastructure and appropriateness of Eurotunnel’s charges, and its and that it is in the country’s interests that it remains joint economic committee published a report on the in operation. By virtue of the 1986 treaty of Canterbury first phase of its work in October 2011. Further work and the ensuing concession agreement, the Government is under way but will take some time. Until those are directly concerned with the Channel Tunnel. investigations are concluded, and on the basis of the evidence currently available, we would recommend The UK strongly supports the growth of cross-Channel caution in assessing whether the level of charges is rail services. The provision of international services appropriate. and their service patterns is a commercial matter for operators. In order for a train to transit the Channel In answer to another question from the noble Lord, Tunnel, the operator needs to comply with the relevant Lord Faulkner of Worcester, the Government support European, national and Channel Tunnel-specific long-distance high-speed rail. At present, services on requirements. HS1 and the Channel Tunnel are relatively inaccessible My noble friend Lady O’Cathain and other noble for those outside London and the south-east. By providing Lords talked about the proposed Deutsche Bahn service. direct access to the wider European network for services DB applied to the intergovernmental commission in from Manchester, Birmingham and other cities, a link October 2011 to amend its Part B safety certificate, between a national high-speed rail network and the which covers management of safety issues, to include current HS1 could address this. In January this year, operation of passenger services through the tunnel. the Government announced that phase 1 of the HS2 Since the intergovernmental commission has been unable network will include a direct link to the continent via to reach a decision, the application has now been the HS1 line to the Channel Tunnel. The Government’s referred to the British and French Governments for view is that the strategic case for a direct link between consideration. That process is ongoing. Deutsche Bahn the proposed high-speed rail network and the HS1 line will also need to obtain an interoperability authorisation to the Channel Tunnel is strong. to place its new trains into service in the tunnel. My noble friend Lord Freeman asked about the Although IGC officials from the UK and France have Waterloo International terminal. I had been briefed been working positively with Deutsche Bahn and Siemens on this but, sadly, some time ago. My noble friend will to help them prepare the necessary dossier, as yet no recall that the connection to HS1 was slow, and there formal submission for authorisation of new rolling are also technical issues regarding bringing the platforms stock has been made to the IGC by either Deutsche into domestic service. Bahn or Siemens. I should like to say a few words about the role of The noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe, and, the Channel Tunnel Intergovernmental Commission I think, another noble Lord asked me about the purchase and the IGC legal framework and governance. The of SeaFrance Ferries. It is a matter for the competition governance structure for the Channel Tunnel has been 1531 European Rail Market: EUC Report[14 JUNE 2012] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1532 sufficiently flexible to accommodate subsequent example, the 30-minute running time for freight developments in European, UK and French law and locomotives. Other remaining tunnel rules are expected regulation, and it is expected to continue to be so. The to finish in September 2012. Channel Tunnel Intergovernmental Commission and I turn to economic regulation of the Channel Tunnel. the Channel Tunnel Safety Authority are currently The UK considers that the Channel Tunnel’s regulator’s seen as providing an effective structure for regulating independence from any railway undertaking is properly the Channel Tunnel in line with the European framework. preserved as regards the UK. No one in the UK IGC If a need is identified to improve the effectiveness of delegation or working at the Office of Rail Regulation the IGC or to adjust the powers available to it as in support of the IGC has any responsibility for regulator, the Government will promote any necessary Eurostar. Within the Department for Transport, policy legislative changes. responsibility for Eurostar is vested in a separate command The speed of IGC decision-making is conditioned that has no locus in or responsibility for the IGC. in part by EU regulatory processes and requirements My noble friend Lady O’Cathain, the noble Lord, and by the processes and responses of the concessionaires Lord Davies, and many other noble Lords talked and other stakeholders. The IGC process with regard about border and immigration controls. Rail liberalisation to the authorisation of proposed new services through presents a number of border control challenges which the tunnel cannot start until the relevant documents the Home Office and the border force are seeking to have been submitted. resolve with colleagues from across government, the I think that I will have to part company with my police, rail operators and the Governments of other noble friend Lady O’Cathain and the rest of the European countries. It is occurring against a background committee at Canterbury. The Channel Tunnel is a of rapid changes in border control technology, which binational infrastructure and therefore needs some will help to meet some of those challenges. But these form of binational governance. This is necessary regardless challenges will only become more significant with the of which authorities have, in law, the regulatory functions. increase in international services. That is recognised in Even when the IGC is exercising legal powers in its respect of HS2. own name, its decisions are, in practice, informed by discussions between the French and British national Lord Berkeley: Will the noble Lord explain what authorities. In this connection, we are working with border controls are planned for HS2? That seems a bit our French colleagues to conclude as soon as possible odd as I thought it was within the UK. transposition of the revised railway safety and recast railway interoperability directives for the Channel Tunnel. We see no need to renegotiate the treaty, and I suspect Earl Attlee: My Lords, I think the hope is that that the French have no appetite to do so either, as passengers will get on HS2 on an international journey observed by my noble friend Lady O’Cathain. The further up the country, maybe from Birmingham. noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, referred to the The noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, asked about Schengen. treaty and to direct governance of the tunnel but I do The position of the UK outside Schengen means that not think I heard him say what the policy of Her exit checks also need to be completed for all passengers Majesty’s Opposition is. leaving the zone prior to immigration arrival controls I turn to the tunnel-specific safety rules for passengers in the UK. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, raised the and freight. The IGC has made significant progress in UK’s possible infraction for non-compliance with the reviewing its rules to check that all the safety requirements first railway package in respect of the Channel Tunnel. currently in place continue to be justifiable on safety I am unable to discuss the infraction procedures with grounds and to remove those which are not. The IGC respect to the first railway package and the Channel will continue to hold this view unless the evidence Tunnel but we consider that the railway usage contract demonstrates otherwise. does not breach the requirements of directive 2001/14—the first railway package—for the duration of a framework The tunnel authorities and Eurotunnel are working contract, and complies with Articles 17.5 and 17.5a in together to address the consequences for the tunnel’s that it relates to a uniquely large-scale and long-term rules of the opening of the European rail market. This investment which is covered by contractual commitments. includes a programme of work to address the European The noble Lord, Lord Haskel, also asked about the Rail Agency technical opinion, which has already led Commission taking further action against member to a number of requirements being removed. The UK states for non-compliance of the first railway package. Government accept the principle that the IGC must The European Commission is currently taking infraction justify, by robust risk analysis, any requirements that action against those member states that have not are additional to the European harmonised technical correctly implemented the first railway package. specifications for interoperability. I am grateful for your Lordships’ comments and, The safety concerns that underpin the tunnel’s safety where appropriate, I will certainly draw them to the requirements reflect the difficulties of getting firefighters attention of my right honourable friend the Rail Minister, in and other people out of a 54-kilometre undersea Theresa Villiers. tunnel in the event of a fire. My noble friend Lady O’Cathain asked when the work on the TSIs will be 6.49 pm completed and whether the TSI requirements will be rescinded. The Safety in Railway Tunnels TSI is expected Baroness O’Cathain: First, I thank everyone who to be revised in mid-2013. Some specific requirements took part in this debate. It has been a fantastic debate in the Channel Tunnel rules have been removed—for and the enthusiasm of every single Member, whether 1533 European Rail Market: EUC Report[LORDS] European Rail Market: EUC Report 1534

[BARONESS O’CATHAIN] work was amazing. It was a clear example of how to or not they are members of Sub-Committee B was motivate the experience and expertise of the House, palpable. I think that we achieved a lot in bringing the and how noble Lords become enthused about something report to this state. However, as I said in my introductory to the benefit of the country and of the Government. remarks, we as a committee could never have done it When they read the committee’s report and the report without the help of the clerks and policy analysts. My of this debate in Hansard, they will realise that there is noble friend Lord Freeman also paid tribute to their great support for what they are doing to try to get the work. It was a great joy to have the noble Lord taking railways to work properly so that we can go for growth part in this debate because he was the previous chairman while keeping the focus on the consumer. of Sub-Committee B and gently reminded the whole I know that the Minister will write to noble Lords, House of the debt we owe to the noble Lord, Lord and probably I shall have to as well to ask for additional Roper, for the gentle but firm way in which he guided information on some points, because this has been a us through paragraph after paragraph of all the reports fascinating debate. I will mention also the noble Lord, that came before him. He is an amazingly hard worker Lord Brooke, who has a great ability to keep us on the and a very nice person to work with. I thank him. rails and heading in the right direction. He does that at Noble Lords spoke today in so much detail that I every meeting. I thank him for it and am so glad that know I will learn even more about the Channel Tunnel he is still on the committee. by reading Hansard. I was particularly thankful for The noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, paid us a the history lessons we were given. The one from the gracious compliment by referring to the telling noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, was terrific. I was about contribution of the members of the committee, and to to say that he was not in his place, but he is in a the significant points made by non-members. His one superior place—on the Woolsack. He took us back to objection was to the title of the report. We debated 50 years ago and made me feel that perhaps there is that. Certain of us—I will not say who—thought nothing negative about being a techie. We also had a “Light at the End of the Tunnel” would be better. history lesson from the noble Lord, Lord Walpole, Others said perhaps not. I am sure that the noble and I doubt if anybody in the Chamber will now Lord, Lord Roper, would agree that there has been forget the date of his birthday. In various meetings of quite a lot of discussion about the titles of reports. Sub-Committee B, the subject of Norwich and the Perhaps one does all the hard work and then comes to trains of East Anglia came up, and he was absolutely a point where one can introduce a bit of levity. However, right—it is a disgrace that we do not get on and use I do not think that our title is too cheeky; I think that and improve the railway system. tunnel vision is something we have experienced and As the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, said, will have to address. one has only to go across to Europe to see how trains I thank the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, for the depth can work. We in this country have the enthusiasm to of his knowledge. He is so precise, which was obvious try to get the Channel Tunnel to work properly. It is today in his contribution. not doing so at the moment. That is not a destructive I am sure I have missed out someone; I have just critical point; it is being absolutely constructive, and been scribbling. No, I do not think I have. our report was written on that basis. I look forward very much to the redraft of the first railway package. I thank the Minister, who had a very difficult job to Instead of talking about the fourth, let us get on do. He knows where we are coming from and we know with it. where he is coming from and that he supports us. We have got to try to get matters moving. It would be in I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, who order to have further discussions about the treaty of has only just joined our committee but who has taken Canterbury but, in the mean time, I thank all noble on board the report that was written long before she Lords. joined. She will be a marvellous member, judging by her contribution today. I thank and welcome her. I referred to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, in my Motion agreed. speech. The fact that he and the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, went across to Switzerland and did all that House adjourned at 6.55 pm. WS 143 Written Statements[14 JUNE 2012] Written Statements WS 144

courses for other offences, such as not wearing a seat Written Statements belt and the proposed careless driving fixed penalty. Thursday 14 June 2012 There are no proposals to make any changes to penalty levels for parking restriction FPN offences. These measures will play an important role in Disclosure and Barring Service improving road safety for all road users as well as Statement maintaining compliance with motoring laws. The consultation documents can be found on the The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Henley): department’s website. An electronic copy has been My honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary lodged with the House Library. of State for Equalities and Criminal Information (Lynne Featherstone) has today made the following Written Equal Pay Ministerial Statement. Statement The new Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) will bring together the work of the Criminal Records Baroness Verma: My honourable friend the Bureau and the Independent Safeguarding Authority, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Equalities and represents an important element of the Government’s and Criminal Information (Lynne Featherstone) has reforms to the disclosure and barring arrangements. today made the following Written Ministerial Statement. I am pleased to announce that the following senior Today the Government are publishing their response appointments have been made to the DBS: to an element of the modern workplaces consultation. This is our proposal to require employers who lose an Chairman of the Disclosure and Barring Service: employment tribunal case on equal pay to carry out a Bill Griffiths, formerly chair of the Forensic pay audit. Science Service; and We have considered the responses to the consultation Chief Executive, Adrienne Kelbie, currently Deputy carefully, and we intend to proceed with this proposal. Chief Executive and Corporate Director of Business This will mean that an employment tribunal which Support for Hull City Council. finds that an employer has discriminated on grounds These appointments will take effect later this year. of sex in contractual or non-contractual pay will be obliged to order the employer to conduct a pay audit Driving: Fixed Penalty Notices in cases where continuing discrimination is likely. An Statement audit would not be ordered if an audit has been completed in the last three years, the employer has transparent pay practices or the employer can show a Earl Attlee: My honourable friend the Parliamentary good reason why it would not be useful. Micro-businesses Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning) will initially be exempt from the proposals. has made the following Ministerial Statement. The Government intend to issue a further consultation The department has today published a consultation later this year on the exact details of how the audits paper on changes to the treatment of penalties for will operate and what publication requirements will careless driving and other motoring offences. This apply. We will work closely with business organisations follows up key commitments from the Government’s and other interested stakeholders throughout this process, Strategic Framework for Road Safety, published in and we will seek an opportunity to bring forward May 2011. legislation when parliamentary time allows. With careless driving, the current enforcement process This proposal will supplement “Think, Act, Report”, is time consuming and inefficient. We are therefore which is a simple, voluntary, step-by-step framework proposing to make careless driving a fixed penalty to help companies think about gender equality in their offence and open to the offer of education training. workforces, on key issues such as recruitment, retention, We believe this will help the police to enforce against promotion, and pay. Between them, these measures this offence more efficiently. It will also provide greater show our commitment to use of voluntary measures flexibility in dealing with those low level careless driving in most circumstances, and to act firmly where there is behaviours that fall below the threshold for a court need. summons, enabling the greater use of educational The response will be published on the Home Office training. website at: www.homeoffice.gov.uk/equalities/ and a We will also be consulting on raising the level of copy will be placed in the House Library. Responses to many motoring fixed penalty notices, including increasing other elements of the modern workplaces consultation the penalty levels for many (usually endorsable) road will be published in due course. traffic £60 FPN offences to £90. We have broadened the scope of the measure and are consulting on other EU: General Affairs Council options including, increasing the levels for non-endorsable Statement offences, motor insurance offences, and graduated fixed penalties—all by a similar proportion. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Most of these penalty levels have not been increased Office (Lord Howell of Guildford): My honourable since 2000 and are lower than other fixed penalties friend the Minister of State (David Lidington) has such as for disorder. This risks offences being perceived made the following Written Ministerial Statement. as minor infringements. In addition, increasing penalty I attended the General Affairs (GAC) which met in levels will encourage the introduction of educational Brussels on 29 May. WS 145 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 146

The GAC was chaired by the Danish EU presidency, EU: Justice and Home Affairs Mr Nicolai Wammen, Minister for European Affairs. Statement A provisional report of the meeting can be found at: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/ docs/pressdata/EN/genaff/129266.pdf. The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Multiannual financial framework McNally): The Justice and Home Affairs (JHA) Council The General Affairs Council focused on the proposed was held on 7 and 8 June in Luxembourg. My right multiannual financial framework (MFF) for the period honourable friend the Secretary of State for Justice between 2014 and 2020. The meeting was the first (Kenneth Clarke) and my right honourable friend the discussion of all areas of the MFF and looking at all Secretary of State for Home Affairs (Theresa May) areas of the latest version of the negotiating box text. attended on behalf of the United Kingdom. The This text is not binding but will set the tone and the following items were discussed. direction of future discussions on the MFF. The council began in mixed committee with Norway, The version of the negotiating box text discussed at Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland (non-EU Schengen the General Affairs Council, which I have deposited in states) with an update on the Second Generation the Library of the House, contains positive language Schengen Information System (SISII). Commissioner on the need to focus EU spending on areas that Malmström reported that the delivery of SIS II remained promote growth. It also explicitly states that “it is on schedule for the first quarter of 2013. Initial feedback essential that the future MFF reflects the consolidation on the Milestone 2 tests had been positive, with a full efforts being made by member states to bring deficit report due in July. The UK supports the current SIS II and debt onto a more sustainable path”. This is helpful project. to us; however there were less helpful parts of the text Next the presidency led a political debate on Schengen with options for macroeconomic conditionality and governance based on the first biannual report from the reform to own resources, including the rebate and the European Commission. The Commission called for possibility of a financial transaction tax. more accurate and current data on secondary flows I argued that text relating to the UK rebate should within the EU; looked forward to the swift adoption not be in the negotiating box for discussion, as any of the visa liberalisation temporary suspension changes to the own resources decision, including those mechanism; and encouraged member states to make required to amend the UK rebate, require consensus better use of the Schengen Information System and among member states. The UK would not agree to SIRENE bureaus. It also drew the council’s attention any changes to the UK rebate or any new own resources to the non-binding guidelines contained in the report such as a financial transaction tax and therefore their on temporary residence permits and travel documents inclusion was pointless. and on the exercise of police powers in internal border At the meeting I also reiterated points I have made areas. There was some agreement by member states on at previous meetings of the GAC: that at least ¤100 billion the need for more accurate data on secondary movements of savings had to be made from the proposals made by within the Schengen area and on the need to reach the Commission and that reste à liquider (RAL or swift agreement with the European Parliament on the unspent commitments) remained an important issue visa suspension mechanism. The UK also highlighted to be resolved. the importance of tackling criminality, human trafficking, June European Council abuse of free movement, document fraud and the need There was also a presentation of the agenda for the for an effective returns policy to combat illegal migration, June European Council, which will cover the MFF, including the readmission agreement with Turkey. justice and home affairs, and possible foreign policy The presidency called on the council to accept its issues if the circumstances allow. The main focus of compromise on the two legislative instruments: the the June European Council, however, will be on the Schengen Evaluation and Monitoring Mechanism growth agenda, in particular the completion of the (SEMM) and the Schengen Borders Code (SBC). Where European Semester, which gives macroeconomic and the evaluation of a member state showed persistent fiscal guidance to member states, and the ideas the and serious shortcomings threatening public policy or European Council called for in March. internal security, the council would be able to reintroduce G20 summit in Los Cabos internal borders for up to two years through the The presidency also discussed the preparations for amended SBC. The only outstanding issue for the the G20 summit in Los Cabos. The discussion followed SEMM was the change in legal base from Article 77 the priorities for the EU set out in the joint letter from TFEU to Article 70. EU President Herman van Rompuy and the President Member states agreed to change the legal base, of the European Commission José Manuel Barroso to which the UK welcomed as rightly reflecting the UK’s member states. These were: growth and employment; partial participation in the Schengen acquis. Whilst strengthening the international financial architecture; the UK had yet to complete its domestic parliamentary progress on financial sector reform; and tackling food processes, the Government position was not to opt security and promoting development. out. The UK also noted that the compromise package Croatia on the SBC correctly reflected that it was for the Finally, I welcomed the Commission’s recent report council to decide on the imposition of internal border on Croatia, underlined the importance of continued controls rather than the Commission. monitoring of the fulfilment of commitments, and The presidency concluded agreement on the proposals noted that completing the process successfully and and said that the European Parliament would be credibly was important for both Croatia and the EU. approached to launch formal trilogue discussions on WS 147 Written Statements[14 JUNE 2012] Written Statements WS 148 the SBC and to hold informal discussions on the could begin to play a role in combating terrorism at SEMM. The Commission issued a declaration reserving the EU’s external borders. He also highlighted the link its rights under the treaties to challenge the legal base between security and development and called for EU and balance of institutional competencies before the action to prevent the emergence of terrorist safe havens European Court of Justice. in Africa. The UK supports work being done in these Over lunch many member states acknowledged the areas of concern in the CT field and encourages future case for revising the data protection directive, but EU engagement on this work. raised concerns about the effect on the processing of The council adopted the council conclusions on a information by member state authorities and about global alliance against child sexual abuse online. The whether the proposals respected subsidiarity. Obligations Commission noted they had been in close contact with on data controllers and the effect of the directive on the USA and would raise the Global Alliance at the existing international agreements were also discussed. 20-21 June EU-US ministerial meeting. The UK supports this initiative. The main council started with a discussion on the common European asylum system. The presidency The council also adopted the council conclusions updated the council on progress in trilogue with the on the Europol Information System (EIS) in the fight European Parliament on the Dublin Regulation and against cross border crime. The UK supports the Reception Conditions directive, with the Asylum increased use of the EIS. Procedures directive to follow shortly thereafter, and A brief update was presented on legal migration noted the adoption by the Commission of its proposal proposals. Trilogue with the European Parliament had for a revised EURODAC regulation. During the discussion commenced on the directive on intra-corporate transferees, the Commission reminded the council of the need to whilst the seasonal workers directive was still under ensure the new asylum package added value and was discussion at working group level. The presidency consistent with the case law of the European courts. In informed the council that negotiations were ongoing general, member states welcomed the new proposal on on the proposed visa reciprocity mechanism and visa EURODAC. The UK has opted in to the Dublin liberalisation suspension clause. The UK has not opted regulation and is considering its participation in the into these measures and does not take part in Schengen new EURODAC proposal. The UK has not opted in visa arrangements. to the two other directives. The justice day began with presidency reaching a The presidency urged the council to maintain general approach on the directive access to a lawyer. momentum on the solidarity measures being deployed This is the third proposal on the EU’s criminal procedural to support member states under pressure and to ensure rights road map, and it sets minimum standards for the necessary follow up was discussed at a political the rights of defence. The UK did not opt in to this level. The presidency provided an update on the Greek directive because the Commission’s proposal as originally task force and made suggestions to involve the UN drafted would have had an adverse impact on our Refugee Agency (UNHCR) in the registration and ability to investigate and prosecute crime. The UK processing of asylum claims; increase the necessary explained that the concerns that had led them not to staffing for the three new services; and provide for opt in had been resolved in this text. Cyprus will take further involvement by the International Organisation forward negotiations with the European Parliament for Migration and Frontex on returns. The European during their presidency. The Government will consult Asylum Support Office presented a quick overview of Parliament on any decision to opt in post adoption. asylum trends in the EU. The Commission supported The council also reached a general approach on the constant monitoring of the solidarity effort but warned regulation on jurisdiction and the recognition and that asylum challenges would not be dealt with effectively enforcement of judgments in civil and commercial by focusing on illegal migration trends. The UK takes matters (Brussels I). The UK noted it had not completed the view that solidarity work should focus on preventative parliamentary scrutiny on the proposal. action and practical co-operation. Next, the presidency secured agreement for a In a discussion on readmission agreements, the multiannual framework for the European Union Agency presidency hoped the council conclusions on co-operation for Fundamental Rights (FRA) for 2013-17, which with Turkey would be agreed soon, which would allow sets out the themes for its work. The presidency’s text swift progress to be made on the EU-Turkey readmission excludes police and judicial co-operation in criminal agreement. The earliest adoption date would be 21 June, matters. The UK supports the decision not to extend at the Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer the remit and believes it should not be extended until Affairs Council. It appealed to the two member states after the FRA’s planned evaluation. The framework with outstanding reservations to agree the conclusions will be sent to the European Parliament for its consent. before that time. The UK supports the rapid conclusion The presidency reached a partial general approach of the EU-Turkey readmission agreements, which will on two draft regulations establishing two new funding be subject to a UK opt-in decision. On Pakistan, the programmes—the justice programme and the rights Commission were in Islamabad on 12 June to discuss and citizenship programme—for the period 2014-20. implementation of the readmission agreement and These are successors to the existing funding programmes invited delegations to attend. in the current fundamental rights and justice framework. Presenting his biannual report, the EU Counter- As the draft regulation for the proposed justice programme Terrorism Co-ordinator (Gilles de Kerchove) spoke of has been issued under Title V of the TFEU, the UK the importance of ensuring co-operation between EU opt-in applies. The UK has not opted in to this agencies in combating terrorism and suggested Frontex programme. The opt-in does not apply to the draft WS 149 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 150 regulation establishing the rights and citizenship The council reached a general approach on a proposal programme and the UK put down a scrutiny reservation for a regulation of the European Parliament and of on the article regarding the protection of financial the council on the establishment of rules and procedures interests of the Union. with regard to the introduction of noise-related operating There was an orientation debate on the Commission’s restrictions at European Union airports within a balanced proposal for a common European sales law (CESL). approach and repealing Directive 2002/30/EC. I was The purported aim of the CESL proposal is to stimulate able to welcome the general approach text, which growth by facilitating cross-border trade, providing would reassure the public that at the local and EU legal certainty and simplifying the process for businesses level we were taking noise management seriously. and consumers. The CESL would not replace existing The presidency provided progress reports on two national laws, but would be an alternative regime to proposals to bring EU law in line with provisions of the existing contract law regime in each member state. the 2006 (ILO) Maritime Labour Convention, noting The Cypriot presidency will continue negotiations on some of the outstanding issues following official level the proposal. The Government are currently evaluating discussions. the results of their recent call for evidence on this A policy debate was held on the blue belt pilot proposal. project that had been initiated under the Belgian The presidency also reported on three other presidency to look at reducing administrative barriers negotiations that were in trilogue with the European to sea trade, especially in the area of customs formalities. Parliament. They hoped to have a first reading deal The presidency concluded that there was support for finalised by the end of the month on the victims and the Commission taking initiatives to follow up the cybercrime directives; regarding the victims directive project, including legislation, though there would need the Government have written to both Houses requesting to be analysis first to ensure benefits would justify scrutiny clearance. The European Investigation Order costs. I noted that there would need to be much greater was unfortunately proceeding much more slowly due clarity on benefits before any consideration was given to delays in the European Parliament. to setting the project in a legislative context. Over lunch there was an orientation debate on the Under any other business, the Commission provided data protection regulation that covered public and an update on the inclusion of aviation in the Emissions private sector obligations and the balance of protection Trading System (ETS): Compliance with the 31 March of personal data and administrative burdens. emissions reporting deadline had been high, although Chinese and Indian airlines had refused to comply with the ETS following a direction from their respective EU: Transport Council administrations. The US Senate held a hearing on the Statement ETS prohibition Bill on 6 June. DG Clima testified at the hearing. Discussions at the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) continued. The next Earl Attlee: My right honourable friend the Secretary significant meeting would be at the end of June, when of State for Transport (Justine Greening) has made the ICAO Council would discuss market-based measures. the following Ministerial Statement. I stressed the need to continue to maintain a united I attended the final Transport Council under the EU position to opposition. I highlighted that what we Danish presidency (the presidency) in Luxembourg on want is a global deal, with a target and specific measures. Thursday 7 June. Also under other business, the Commission reported The council reached a partial general approach on on delays in the introduction of the European electronic two multi-annual financial framework (MFF)-related tolling service (EETS), which should allow drivers to regulations: a proposal for a regulation of the European pay road tolls in any country with a single on-board Parliament and of the council establishing the connecting unit and account. Finally, the Commission reported Europe facility and a proposal for a regulation of the on the recent conference on piracy and maritime transport. European Parliament and of the council on the I also met my French, Dutch and Italian counterparts implementation and exploitation of the European satellite to discuss EU and bilateral issues in the margins of the navigation systems. council. I made statements on both regulations saying that while we supported what had been negotiated so far in the text, we could not formally support the draft National Minimum Wage regulations ahead of the agreement on the overall MFF Statement negotiations as this might prejudge the overall MFF budget. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department On the proposal for a regulation establishing the for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox): connecting Europe facility, I supported an Irish proposal My honourable friend the Minister for Employment that would allow co-funding for road schemes where Relations, Consumers and Postal Affairs (Norman there were isolated (rail) networks as defined in the Lamb) has today made the following Statement. TEN-T regulation. I also stressed that our participation I am pleased to announce that the Government in the core corridors was subject to the provisions of have today written to the Low Pay Commission setting Article 172 of the treaty that require member state out the remit for its 2013 report. approval and would be kept under review until we saw The Government support the national minimum the final requirements in the TEN-T regulation before wage (NMW) because of the protection it provides to finalising our position. low paid workers and the incentives to work it provides. WS 151 Written Statements[14 JUNE 2012] Written Statements WS 152

Our aim is to have NMW rates that help as many Universal Credit low-paid workers as possible, while making sure that Statement we do not damage their employment prospects. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department The Low Pay Commission (LPC) is asked to: for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): My right honourable monitor, evaluate and review the levels of each of friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions the different NMW rates and make recommendations (Duncan Smith) has made the following Written Ministerial on the levels it believes should apply from October Statement. 2013; The Welfare Reform Act 2012 sets out the overall framework for Universal Credit. The implementation review the contribution the NMW could make to of these arrangements will require the passage of the employment prospects of young people, including detailed regulations. those in apprenticeships. As part of this review, the LPC is asked to consider the implications of the The department, as required by the Social Security introduction of the raising of the participation age Administration Act 1992, has submitted the following in England on the youth rates and the apprentice draft regulations to the independent Social Security rate; Advisory Committee (SSAC) for formal scrutiny: the Universal Credit, Personal Independence Payment review the accommodation offset; and and Working-age Benefits (Decisions and Appeals) evaluate the regulations for salaried-hours workers Regulations 2012; and consider whether there are any measures that the Universal Credit, Personal Independence Payment the Government could take to ensure that it is as and Working-age Benefits (Claims and Payments) simple and easy as possible for employers to make Regulations 2012; sure they are paying at least the NMW and for the Jobseeker’s Allowance Regulations 2012; and, individuals to be confident that they are being paid the Employment and Support Allowance Regulations at least the NMW. 2012. In evaluating and making recommendations in the In addition, SSAC will scrutinise the draft Housing areas set out above, the LPC is asked to take account Benefit (Benefit Cap) Regulations 2012 and the draft of the state of the economy and employment and Universal Credit Regulations 2012. The Universal Credit unemployment levels. There is also the wider policy Regulations provides detail of the new single benefit, context to consider, including pensions’ reform, the including entitlement, elements of the award, calculation introduction of universal credit, the raising of the of income and capital, and claimant responsibilities. I personal tax allowance, any implications of the proposed have asked the Committee to consider this set of abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board for England regulations, which are not covered by the Social Security and Wales (pending the outcome of the legislative Administration Act 1992, for consultation over the process), and other government reforms that may summer in addition to those sent for formal scrutiny. affect the NMW. The committee will decide today whether it intends to consult on these regulations and what form that Timing consultation will take. The LPC is asked to report to the Prime Minister, Draft Universal Credit Regulations, along with other Deputy Prime Minister, and the Secretary of State for sets that are selected for consultation, will be published Business, Innovation and Skills by the end of February on both the SSAC and DWP website shortly along 2013. with details of any consultation process. I will place a copy of the draft regulations in the House Library. We Copies of the remit have been placed in the Libraries intend to lay the final Universal Credit Regulations of both Houses. before Parliament later in the year.

WA 263 Written Answers[14 JUNE 2012] Written Answers WA 264

headquarters and agencies, for the full spectrum of Written Answers potential military tasks. The UK takes a co-ordinated and pro-active approach to ensure that, as far as Thursday 14 June 2012 possible, NATO and UK exercise policies are aligned and that scarce national assets and exercise programming Armed Conflict: Cultural Property conflicts are avoided. The UK also participates in a Question number of other programmes with NATO and non- NATO countries, including inter alia American, British, Asked by Lord Judd Canadian, Australian and New Zealand Armies’ Programme (ABCA), UK/US Engagement Plan and To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they bilaterals with other nations. Activities vary in scale will ratify the 1954 Hague Convention on the Protection from corps level command post exercises to individual of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict exchanges and focus on interoperability training. and its two protocols. [HL314] A series of exercises is being planned in preparation for the UK/France Combined Joint Expeditionary Baroness Rawlings: The Government are committed Force. A research project (Support to Anglo/French to introducing legislation to ratify the 1954 Hague Interoperability and Readiness) carried out over the Convention on the Protection of Cultural Property period October 2010 to December 2011 demonstrated and accede to its two protocols as soon as parliamentary how sustainable simulation technologies can support time allows, taking account of all our legislative priorities. joint mission preparation, distributed training and experimentation alongside our partners. Armed Forces: Training Question Charity Commission Asked by Lord Judd Questions To ask Her Majesty’s Government what Asked by Lord Janner of Braunstone arrangements are being made, in the training of To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions military service personnel, to strengthen the they have had with the Charity Commission about United Kingdom’s effective integration in combined ensuring it has the resources it needs to monitor the international operations. [HL312] activities of charities robustly. [HL496] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever): The single services Baroness Verma: As an independent non-ministerial have primary responsibility for the generation of force government department, the Charity Commission elements, trained, equipped and prepared for operational negotiates its own settlement direct with HM Treasury. employment, including alongside international partners The Charity Commission has adopted a strategic plan in combined international operations. Service personnel for 2012-15, following a wide-ranging consultation, receive progressive training at the individual, team, and is confident that it will continue to be an effective unit, formation, component and joint task force level and efficient regulator within the resources available. within a joint and combined environment. From 1 April Asked by Lord Janner of Braunstone 2012, HQ Joint Forces Command was given the responsibility of co-ordinating joint and combined To ask Her Majesty’s Government what percentage training events under the mantle of the Defence Exercise of charities are scrutinised by the Charity Commission Programme; this should reinvigorate and reinforce the on average each year. [HL497] imperative for such training as we start to withdraw from Operation Herrick and adopt a more contingent Baroness Verma: The information requested falls posture. The programme will be strongly influenced within the responsibility of the Charity Commission. I by the defence engagement strategy. have asked the commission’s chief executive to reply. Building and maintaining alliances and partnerships Letter from Sam Younger CBE, Chief Executive, to was a cross-cutting theme in the strategic defence and Lord Janner of Braunstone, dated 30 May 2012. security review and training and education activity (including combined exercises, international student I have been asked to reply to your Written exchange and military capacity building) contributes Parliamentary Question on what percentage of charities to this theme. Furthermore, the development of analytical are scrutinised by the Charity Commission on average and creative thinking skills that complement other each year [HL497). professional competences is embedded in progressive The Charity Commission examines many aspects military education. This equips our future military of the activities of charities in England and Wales and and civilian leaders with the skills to decide, communicate, there is no single figure to reflect the different levels of engage and lead effectively in complex joint, multi-national our regulatory engagement. and inter-agency environments. At the broadest level, the online Register of Charities The UK also participates in North Atlantic Treaty allows the public to scrutinise all registered charities; Organisation (NATO) military exercises. The overall for example, to see which charities have filed their aim of these exercises is to improve the capability and information promptly and which are overdue. The interoperability of both NATO’s and national force’s commission encourages anyone who is interested in or WA 265 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 266 wishes to support a charity to use this publicly available Lord Wallace of Saltaire: As set out in the Civil resource: http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Show Service Code, civil servants advising Ministers should Charity/RegisterOfCharities/ be aware of the constitutional significance of Parliament RegisterHomePage.aspx. and of the conventions governing the relationship The majority of the 162,000 charities on the register between Parliament and the Government. have to send us information which is checked automatically Civil Service Learning provides a wide range of at the point of entry. Commission staff will examine products, both e-learning and face-to-face training, other potential errors or anomalies in the financial which cover these issues. information provided and refer to the charity’s accounts as necessary. We also carry out spot-checks to ensure there is consistency between a charity’s accounts and Discretionary Social Fund annual returns. Question Our next level of engagement with charities comes at the level of operational casework, where we examine Asked by Baroness Lister of Burtersett concerns about charities and provide legal consents To ask Her Majesty’s Government what guidance where our permission is required. Through this type of they will issue to local authorities with reference to activity, we directly regulated an average of approximately possible local connection rules applied to the £28 billion worth of charitable income each year between replacement for the discretionary social fund. 2007-08 and 2010-11. This represented 55% of the [HL694] average total income of charities in England and Wales over the same period. When things go wrong in a charity, or a group of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department charities, we identify and investigate abuse and for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): The Department mismanagement through a combination of monitoring, for Work and Pensions is not planning to issue any assessment and regulatory casework. In the most serious guidance to local authorities with regard to local connection cases, where there is evidence or strong suspicion of rules.FromourmanydiscussionswiththeLocalGovernment serious misconduct or mismanagement in a charity, Association and individual local authorities, we are we may open a statutory inquiry. assured that they are well aware of their existing duties Between 2007-08 and 2011-12, we completed a in regard to local connection issues. yearly average of 202 monitoring cases, 1,517 assessment cases, 135 regulatory cases and 21 statutory inquiries. The number of charities assessed and investigated in Elections: Police and Crime this way in any given year represents a small percentage Commissioners of the total number of registered charities. Questions Asked by Lord Rennard Civil Service: Redundancy Question To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Lord Henley on 28 May Asked by Lord Laird (WA 100–1), how they will publicise the proposed To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to “multichannel approach” for informing the public the Written Answer by Lord Wallace of Saltaire on about the candidates for the Police and Crime 24 April (WA 386), why they do not record centrally Commissioner elections; what the “multichannel and publish the annual numbers and costs of approach” entails; and how they will monitor and redundancies under the Civil Service Compensation publish information about (1) the number of unique Scheme by individual civil service departments and visitors to the website, and (2) the number of requests agencies, and the total annual cost of such pension for information in a paper booklet. [HL612] payments and lump sums on retirement. [HL462] The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Henley): Lord Wallace of Saltaire: The matter of early departures Subject to parliamentary approval of the Police and is delegated to individual departments to determine, Crime Commissioner (Elections) Order 2012, a website as are decisions on redundancies and other early exits. will provide detailed information on all the candidates, It is for departments to report such information in including their election addresses, and a freephone their resource accounts each year. number to enable voters to ask for free leaflet versions to be delivered to their homes. The website address Civil Service: Training and freephone number will be on every polling card, Question and on all Home Office and Electoral Commission literature on police and crime commissioners. No decisions Asked by Lord Norton of Louth have yet been taken on how visits to the website and To ask Her Majesty’s Government what provision requests for leaflets will be monitored. is made by Civil Service Learning to ensure senior Asked by Lord Rennard civil servants are aware of the constitutional significance of Parliament and the conventions governing the To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to relationship between Parliament and Government. the Written Answer by Lord Henley on 28 May [HL420] (WA 100–1), how many copies of paper booklets WA 267 Written Answers[14 JUNE 2012] Written Answers WA 268

setting out information about candidates for the Exports Police and Crime Commissioner elections they expect Question to be printed; and at what cost. [HL613] Asked by Lord Roberts of Conwy

Lord Henley: We will print as many copies as are To ask Her Majesty’s Government what percentage needed. Printing costs will depend on demand and on of United Kingdom gross domestic product is the number of candidates who stand in each region. accounted for by United Kingdom exports to Eurozone countries. [HL549] Asked by Lord Rennard To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord the Written Answer by Lord Henley on 28 May Sassoon): Exports to the eurozone accounted for 12.3% (WA100–1), how many representations they received, of gross domestic product in 2010. Exports to the and from whom, about the issue of voters obtaining eurozone accounted for 41 .8% of total exports in information about candidates in the Police and 2010. Crime Commissioner elections; and how many of Data for 2011 will be published in July 2012. those respondents suggested that their current plans were (1) adequate, or (2) inadequate, for voters to be able to make informed choices in these elections. Greece: Financial Support [HL614] Question Asked by Lord Janner of Braunstone Lord Henley: In addition to representations from To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they the Electoral Commission, the Government received are providing assistance to Greece to ensure that representations from the British Printing Industries poverty levels in Greece do not rise. [HL584] Federation and the Association of Police Authorities. Asked by Lord Rennard The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon): Two financial assistance packages for Greece To ask Her Majesty’s Government what level of have been agreed to date. The first package, agreed in turnout in the Police and Crime Commissioner May 2010 and worth ¤110 billion over three years, elections they would consider to demonstrate sufficient comprised a loan from the International Monetary public support for those elected to the posts. Fund (IMF) of ¤30 billion and a package of bilateral [HL615] loans from euro area member states of ¤80 billion. The second package, agreed on 14 and 15 March 2012 and worth up to ¤130 billion in new financing, Lord Henley: Governments do not set minimum comprises contributions from the European Financial turnout figures for elections. All police and crime Stability Facility (EFSF) and the IMF. The UK is not commissioners will have a stronger mandate than the a member of the EFSF and, therefore, there is no unelected and invisible police authorities that they liability to the UK arising from EFSF lending. replace. The IMF’s contribution to the new programme, which will last until the beginning of 2016, will be ¤28 billion. This includes ¤10 billion from the first Employment: Outsourcing programme which is yet to be disbursed. Although the IMF has ultimately committed ¤48 billion in loans to Question Greece over the period 2010 to 2016, its maximum Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon exposure at any time will not exceed ¤33 billion, as Greece, from 2013 onwards, will also start to repay To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they loans from the first programme. collect data on the number of jobs outsourced to There was no contribution either from the EU foreign countries by United Kingdom-based budget or from the European Financial Stabilisation companies. [HL521] Mechanism (EFSM), which is backed by the EU budget. Therefore the UK’s exposure to Greece’s financial assistance packages is through the IMF alone. Lord Wallace of Saltaire: The information requested The UK lends to the IMF as an institution and not falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics to particular programmes. It is, therefore, not possible Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. to provide an exact estimate of the UK’s contribution Letter from Stephen Penneck, Director General for to individual IMF programmes. As a rough estimate, ONS, to Lord Stoddart of Swindon, dated June 2012. we would expect the UK’s exposure to overall IMF As Director General for the Office for National lending to be in line with its quota share of 4.5%. Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent However, the IMF has preferred creditor status and question asking whether we collect data on the number no country has ever lost money lending to the IMF. of jobs outsourced to foreign countries by United Included within the IMF programme to Greece are Kingdom-based companies. [HL521]. measures that aim to strengthen the core social safety The requested information is not available. net to protect the most vulnerable. For example, the WA 269 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 270

IMF staff’s report on the new Greek loan mentions The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department that, in Greece, non-pension social benefits are “complex, of Health (Earl Howe): The independent regulator, unequally distributed ... and poorly targeted (eg 60% Monitor, requires National Health Service foundation of family benefits go to the top 40% of the income trusts to produce annual reports including annual accounts. distribution)”. A review of these social programmes These include details of audited revenue expenditure, will seek to identify savings by discontinuing non-essential surpluses or deficits. Copies of these documents are programmes and improving the targeting of core laid before Parliament. As public benefit corporations, programmes. Some savings from the reforms would be NHS foundation trusts have a duty to make these reinvested in strengthening core programmes (for instance published data available to any person who requests unemployment benefits) to protect the most vulnerable. them. Asked by Lord Warner House of Lords: Members’ Speeches To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in respect of Question all NHS trusts that have applied to Monitor to Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon become foundation trusts but have not yet been approved, what are (1) their audited revenue To ask the Leader of the House whether the expenditure for 2010–11, and (2) their estimated intervention by Lord Wallace of Saltaire (Official revenue expenditure for 2011–12 (at constant prices); Report, col. 803, 23 May) during a question asked and what surpluses they had in each year. [HL618] of Lord Howell of Guildford by Lord Davies of Stamford stating that he did not think “that it has To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in respect of been the usual practice of this House to interrupt the 20 NHS trusts identified in ″tripartite formal Ministers in the middle of their opening speeches” agreements″ as not financially or clinically viable in was accurate. [HL750] their current form; what are (1) their audited revenue expenditure for 2010–11, and (2) their estimated The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord revenue expenditure for 2011–12 (at constant prices); Strathclyde): My noble friend was correct to observe what deficits they had in each year; and what is that it is the usual practice of the House that Members’ their current accumulated historical debt. [HL619] questions to the Minister, having been posed in the To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in respect of course of a debate, are answered in the Minister’s all NHS trusts which are expected to apply successfully closing speech. The Companion to the Standing Orders to Monitor to become foundation trusts by April makes clear that although a Member may be interrupted 2014, what are (1) their audited revenue expenditure “with a brief question for clarification”, “lengthy or for 2010–11, and (2) their estimated revenue expenditure frequent interventions should not be made, even with for 2011–12 (at constant prices); what surpluses or the consent of the member speaking” (Paragraph 4.29). deficits they had in each year; and what is their current accumulated historical debt. [HL620] Mayors Question Earl Howe: Information on operating expenses, Asked by Lord Grocott break-even cumulative position and surplus/deficit positions for the following groups of National Health To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the Service trusts has been placed in the Library: total cost of the 10 recent referendums on directly NHS trusts with Monitor yet to be authorised; elected mayors. [HL548] NHS trusts identified in tripartite formal The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department agreements as not financially and/or clinically for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): viable in their current organisation form; and I refer the noble Lord to the Answer I gave on 28 May NHS trusts expected to become foundation trusts, 2012 (Official Report, col. WA 119), where I explained the majority of which by April 2014. that the councils concerned are now establishing these costs and will be submitting their claims for government funding. NHS: Out-of-hours Service Question NHS: Foundation Trusts Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Questions Asked by Lord Warner To ask Her Majesty’s Government what investigations are being conducted into the out-of-hours To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in respect of general practitioner service in Cornwall. [HL609] all NHS trusts that are currently approved by Monitor as foundation trusts, what are (1) their audited revenue expenditure for 2010–11, and (2) their estimated The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department revenue expenditure for 2011–12 (at constant prices); of Health (Earl Howe): This is a matter for Cornwall what surpluses or deficits they had in each year; and the Isles of Scilly primary care trust and the Care and what are their current accumulated reserves. Quality Commission (CQC). However, we understand [HL617] that the CQC is currently carrying out an inspection WA 271 Written Answers[14 JUNE 2012] Written Answers WA 272 into Serco. As the CQC is an independent body it code, including clearer guidance on what constitutes a would not be appropriate to comment further on this special educational need, will be laid before both inspection. Houses for approval. Waste Management Olympic and Paralympic Games 2012 Question Question Asked by Lord Smith of Leigh Asked by Baroness Coussins To ask Her Majesty’s Government which local To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions authorities have submitted bids for the Weekly they have had with the London Organising Committee Collection Support Scheme for waste collection. of the Olympic and Paralympic Games about the [HL581] organisations and companies which have been contracted to provide interpreting and translation The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department services for the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games. for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): [HL535] The Weekly Collection Support Scheme was launched in February this year. Outline bids had to be sent in by last month and I am pleased to say that we received Baroness Garden of Frognal: Contracting for 166 different bids. interpreting and translation services to the London 2012 Organising Committee (LOCOG) is a matter for This enthusiasm shows there is significant scope for LOCOG, a private company which operates independently councils to increase recycling rates and improve front-line of government. The Government have had no discussions services without cutting the frequency of rubbish with LOCOG about organisations or companies collections. The bids include a range of proposals to contracted by LOCOG in this area. support weekly collections, including infrastructure projects and incentive schemes. My department is getting ready to give those bidders Schools: Special Educational Needs bespoke feedback later this month. This will help local Question authorities as they seek to finalise and improve their bids in time for the final bids deadline in August. Asked by The Countess of Mar The scheme’s prospectus states that, To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they “we will not disclose the nature, scale and scope of individual bids plan to revise the definition of special educational during the bidding process ... Once offer letters have been issued the department may publish top line information about bids needs for schools; and whether they will publish where this is deemed to be in the public interest (for example, the that definition. [HL456] name of the successful lead bidding authority, the amount that will be awarded and nature and scale of the successful proposal(s))”. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Consequently, I cannot at present disclose the names Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): “Special educational of individual local authorities which are seeking funding needs” is currently defined within Part IV of the from the scheme. Education Act 1996. The Government have announced The reasoning for this stance is that such information a Children and Families Bill which will replace Part IV is closely linked to tendering and procurement processes and revise the definition of special educational needs in local authorities. As a result, disclosure may have an (SEN) to reflect the proposed change to a birth to adverse effect on competition between companies in 25 system for assessing and providing for children and this process and put local authorities in a disadvantageous young people’s needs. A draft of the Bill will be position. For example, the disclosure of budget set subject to pre-legislative scrutiny later this year. The aside for a purchase could encourage suppliers to raise SEN code of practice will be revised to reflect the new their prices and prejudice the bargaining position of a arrangements set out in the Bill and a draft of the local authority.

Thursday 14 June 2012

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Col. No. Col. No. Disclosure and Barring Service ...... 143 EU: Justice and Home Affairs ...... 146

Driving: Fixed Penalty Notices ...... 143 EU: Transport Council ...... 149

Equal Pay ...... 144 National Minimum Wage ...... 150

EU: General Affairs Council ...... 144 Universal Credit...... 152

Thursday 14 June 2012

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. Armed Conflict: Cultural Property...... 263 Exports ...... 268

Armed Forces: Training ...... 263 Greece: Financial Support ...... 268 House of Lords: Members’ Speeches ...... 269 Charity Commission...... 264 Mayors...... 269 Civil Service: Redundancy ...... 265 NHS: Foundation Trusts...... 269 Civil Service: Training...... 265 NHS: Out-of-hours Service...... 270 Discretionary Social Fund ...... 266 Olympic and Paralympic Games 2012...... 271

Elections: Police and Crime Commissioners ...... 266 Schools: Special Educational Needs...... 271 Employment: Outsourcing...... 267 Waste Management ...... 272 NUMERICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. [HL312] ...... 263 [HL584] ...... 268

[HL314] ...... 263 [HL609] ...... 270

[HL420] ...... 265 [HL612] ...... 266

[HL456] ...... 271 [HL613] ...... 267

[HL462] ...... 265 [HL614] ...... 267

[HL496] ...... 264 [HL615] ...... 267

[HL497] ...... 264 [HL617] ...... 269

[HL521] ...... 267 [HL618] ...... 270

[HL535] ...... 271 [HL619] ...... 270

[HL548] ...... 269 [HL620] ...... 270

[HL549] ...... 268 [HL694] ...... 266

[HL581] ...... 272 [HL750] ...... 269 Volume 737 Thursday No. 16 14 June 2012

CONTENTS

Thursday 14 June 2012 Death of a Member: Lord Archer of Sandwell Announcement ...... 1411 Questions Animal Welfare...... 1411 Schools: Admissions...... 1413 Libraries...... 1415 Environment: Rio+20 Conference...... 1418 Business of the House Timing of Debates...... 1420 Examiner of Petitions for Private Bills Motion to Approve ...... 1420 Joint Committee on Human Rights Membership Motion...... 1420 Youth Unemployment Motion to Take Note ...... 1421 Schools: Well-being and Personal and Social Needs Motion to Take Note ...... 1458 Banking Reform Statement ...... 1494 European Rail Market: EUC Report Motion to Take Note ...... 1507 Written Statements...... WS 143 Written Answers...... WA 263