Transcript
Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
Hashim Thaçi
President, Republic of Kosovo
Chair: Adam Ward
Deputy Director, Chatham House
05 April 2019
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2 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
Adam Ward
Good afternoon everybody. It’s a real pleasure to welcome Hashim Thaçi, President of the Republic of Kosovo to address us on The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans. On Sunday if I’m not mistaken, the President will be celebrating three years in office, and he’s also, of course, served terms as Prime Minister and Foreign Minister. This week, I think we’re also conscious of other anniversaries, notably the 70th anniversary of NATO, and with that we’re reminded that it’s 20 years since NATO’s intervention in Kosovo, which was a seminal and formative experience in the Alliance’s Post-Cold War existence. It was also, of course, a milestone in the unravelling and the reshaping of the Balkans. And last year marked the 10th anniversary since Kosovo’s Declaration of Independence, a declaration that occurred during the Prime Ministership of the President. But the past 20 years have not proved easy, and a settled regional order has proved elusive to date.
The President played a leading part in the Belgrade-Pristina dialogue on a normalisation of relations between Kosovo and Serbia. Today, he’s involved in dialogue with Aleksander Vučić, the President of Serbia, and what’s been described as an effort to shape a landmark agreement to put bilateral relations on a much surer footing, including its reported through border adjustments and exchanges of territory between the two. And it’s felt by the two parties that a broad settlement of this kind would have wider benefits, advancing Serbia’s aspiration to EU membership and boosting Kosovo’s claim to formal EU candidate status and membership of NATO as well and it might add impetus to Kosovo’s desire for wider diplomatic recognition. Although bilateral dialogue has been ongoing, problems have persisted in parallel to the talks over tariff disputes, and Serbian objections to the formation of a Kosovo army, but both sides remain committed to the process.
So, we have an excellent opportunity today to hear directly from the President on the prospects for that dialogue about the wider objectives that he has for the evolution of Kosovo and about the role of Kosovo more generally in the Western Balkans, a region I think it’s worth noting, where the intersection of American, European, but also, Russian and Chinese geopolitical interests are widely felt. Please note that the President is going to give his address in English, but will conduct the question and answer session in Albanian, and we’ve issued you all with headsets and they only start to function when the Q&A session begins. So, you should not bother with them until then. When the Q&A session begins, all you need to do is to press the ‘on’ button whether you want to listen to – when you want to listen to the translation. So, the meeting’s on the record. You’re encouraged to tweet about it using the indicated hashtags, and Mr President, welcome to Chatham House, and we look forward very much to your remarks. Thank you [applause].
Hashim Thaçi
Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Adam. Ladies and gentlemen, I know that talking about Kosovo today in London does not receive any special attention particular, and we know that everybody in London speak about Brexit, Brexit, Brexit. But the obvious reason for this, these days we are celebrating 70th anniversary of NATO Alliance, and also, 20th anniversary of NATO intervention in Kosovo. After the Peace Conference in Rambouillet France, the world was convinced that Slobodan Milošević that Serbia does not want dialogue, nor an agreement, nor peace with Kosovo. Serbia continued its campaign that saw more than half of the Kosovo population expelled from their homes and deported outside of Kosovo. Serbian forces committed 400 massacres around Kosovo and caused as many as 20,000 victims of sexual violence. It was NATO’s humanitarian intervention that brought to an end the genocide and ethnic cleansing, carried out by the Serbian forces. For this ,we will be forever grateful, and we will be particularly grateful to UK for its leadership in the NATO campaign. So, where is Kosovo today? 3 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country. It is recognised by more than 100 states around the world. It is a member of as much as 200 different international organisations and fora. Lately, also member of FIFA and UEFA and we are looking for the world for a football match, a European derby I hope between Kosovo and England. But be careful, Kosovo is becoming a small Brazilian football for sure. We are big in Britain and the world, also, with our shining stars like Rita Ora, Dua Lipa, Era Istrefi, and with the Olympian, the world champion Majlinda Kelmendi. Kosovo has changed. Today, we are multi-ethnic, democratic country, with successful reforms in the rule of law sector. We have done deep reforms in economy, politics and legislations. We know that we need to do more and more. We have built good relation with our neighbours. We finish border demarcation with Macedonia North and Montenegro. With this strike imminently extremism fundamentalism and terrorism. I am proud that US administration has called us champions in the region in fighting terrorism and extremism.
We have prevented terrible terrorist attacks from taking place in Kosovo and in the region. Of course, we have done all this with our friends and partners. Ladies and gentlemen, the World Kosovo Society is transforming. Today, Kosovo as a multicultural, multi-ethnic and multireligious society, so to Pride parades in the centre of Pristina, marching freely like in no other place in the region. Without any fear, without any threats, without any prejudice. I went out personally, as the President of the country, to march with them in the centre of Pristina. Kosovo, even though its population is the most pro-European in the Western Balkans, and even for it has met all the condition for the visa free movement in the EU, unfortunately, it remains the most isolated country in Europe. Why is this happening? Because countries of the EU lack courage and unity to make decision about Kosovo. This is an injustice and punishment, particularly for the young generations.
Ladies and gentlemen, today, I want to talk about the main issues, especially today, the dialogue with Serbia. I know that it’s not so easy for former enemies to talk to each other. But communication and dialogue are the only way forward, the only way to achieve peace. Otherwise, we will remain hostages of the past, and future generation will pay the price. Still, I remain hopeful and I remain an optimist that the reason we’ve prevailed, and that our countries will reach a peace agreement. A compromise agreement that will bring benefits for both countries and our societies. It means agreement, a legal binding agreement that will bring mutual recognition for the two sovereign countries. Recognition of Kosovo by the five EU non-recognisers, Spain, Greece, Romania, Cyprus, Slovakia. Second, NATO and EU path and membership in the United Nations and for Serbia, it will secure its European perspective.
Ladies and gentlemen, dialogue between Kosovo and Serbia has been dynamic and lively and this is very good. It is healthy for the process and for our societies. There are sceptics and opponents in this process I know, and I understand them, and I respect them. But my question to all of them, is what is the alternative to the dialogue? How do, how they seal it forward to move our countries and our societies to continue their animosities and their conflict, killing and problems? My answer to this is no, we have lost enough lives, we have wasted enough time. So, what is needed to reach the agreement?
First, international community must be more united, particularly Quint countries. If they are united, we in Kosovo, will be even more united. As it happened in the past, they can bring us together, but we cannot bring them together. After all, the agreement is in the interest of Kosovo, it’s in the interest of Serbia, but also, in interest of international community. It’s in the interest of EU and the US and the status score on the frozen conflict will not halt. Kosovo was and will remain a close European partner in this process. But agreements cannot be achieved with one sided action of either side, or by putting conditions. In Kosovo, more than 70% of the citizens supported the dialogue and reaching an agreement with Serbia. 4 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
It means a comprehensive agreement, that will close all open issues between Kosovo and Serbia, issues such as the missing persons, refugees, cultural and historical heritage, economic co-operation, the rights of communities. The issues such as health, education and similar. But one thing is certain, there will be no borders based on ethnic lines. Kosovo will remain a multi-ethnic state and society, as will Serbia. We will pursue the spirit of the Western values on principles of liberal democracies that we have built together. Thank you very much [applause].
Adam Ward
Maybe I could start by asking you the first question? I think one of the concerns that has been voiced about the agreement that you’re pursuing with Serbia, in turning land swaps and border adjustments, is that it could set a precedent and trigger similar attempts, throughout the region, in a destabilising way. What gives you confidence that that sort of process can be avoided through what you’re doing?
Hashim Thaçi
I will continue in Albanian language. As I said in my introductory speech, we are working for a comprehensive agreement that will close all open issues that exist between Kosovo and Serbia that have been established in the century of conflict. But the substance of the agreement means that Kosovo will remain a multi-ethnic country. There would be no borders along ethnic lines. But as every other country in agreements to recognise each other, we also have to establish the border, or border demarcation between Kosovo and Serbia, just like Kosovo did with Montenegro, a process which was followed with a debate in Kosovo, and as we have done with Macedonia. So, the issue of the borders in the Western Balkans is very sensitive, like anywhere in the world, and this is why there’s always a lot of debate when borders are in question. My goal is to find an agreement that will bring recognition of Kosovo’s sovereign country by Serbia and the border is one of the issues that will be included in a series of different topics that will be included in the agreement. And it will be officially an agreement that will bring mutual agree – recognition between two countries. There would be no exchange of territories between two countries.
Adam Ward
Thank you, and then perhaps, just broader question. In my introduction, I mentioned about the Western Balkans being a focus for the varying geopolitical interests of a number of extra regional powers. The EU Commissioner, Johannes Hahn, recently made remarks to the effect that the EU has underestimated the scope and the implications of China’s presence in the Balkans. China, at the present time, does not recognise Kosovo, but how do you view China’s regional role, and if you were to gain recognition from China, what sort of a relationship would you want to structure with Beijing?
Hashim Thaçi
By not reaching agreement between Kosovo and Serbia, in reality, we have created a vacuum of anti- Western ideologies to penetrate the Balkans. We’re lucky that I’m President of a country and a state, which is the most pro-European in the Western Balkans. More than 90% want to be membership in NATO and in the EU. And these values, we will preserve these values, but at the same time, I emphasise that if we reach an agreement between Kosovo and Serbia in very near future, this comprehensive agreement, we will have less and less influence, not only of China, but less and less influence of Russia and all anti-Western ideologies. Kosovo knows its way forward towards the West, this is the will of the citizens and the vision of the leadership. But this doesn’t mean that this is the spirit that dominates in all countries of the Western Balkans. 5 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
This is why these vacuum, these turbulences of – political turbulences in the Western Balkans are being used and it’s taking advantage non-Western ideologies in a very dynamic way. The more peace we have in the Western Balkans, the less there would be influence of anti-Western ideologies. If Kosovo and Serbia reach an agreement, Kosovo will move much quicker towards NATO and the EU, and Serbia towards EU, and this will reflect positively in the whole Western Balkans. This is why I’m very grateful to all the countries of the Western Balkans, that support our efforts, Kosovo, Serbia. So, we, that during this year, especially after the agreement between North Macedonia and Greece, it’s now our turn to reach an agreement.
Adam Ward
Thank you. We’ll now open it up to questions from the floor. If you’d like to ask a question, please identify yourself, when the microphone reaches you. First to catch my eye was the lady here in the front.
Donya Taplana
Mr President, thank you very much. Firstly, Mr President…
Adam Ward
Could you just say who you are?
Donya Taplana
Of course, and my name is Donya Taplana. I am a former Kosovan refugee, and Business Management and Leadership graduate, currently working in investment banking, who, one day, would like to be a part of the Kosovan Government. So, yes, the war in Kosovo was horrific and innocent lives were lost in both countries. The Kosovan War will always be part of our history, and I have great respect for those who died fighting, or who watched their family members suffer and live to tell their accounts. However, living in the past is not the – is not going to improve the biggest current situations in Kosovo. In 2018, the United Nations Development Programme reported that the population of Kosovo sees unemployment, corruption and poverty as its biggest problems. What is the Government planning to do, regarding these challenges, which the people have highlighted are affecting the growth of Kosovo? Thank you.
Hashim Thaçi
Thank you very much for your question, and you’re very welcome in institutions in Kosovo, and by joining Kosovo’s institutions, you would improve your governance in Kosovo. And this is exactly why I want an agreement between Kosovo and Serbia, because that will bring or make possible transformation of the Kosovan society, where young men and women like you have been educated in the West would be included in governance. If we fail to reach an agreement, we will live in the past, we will continue living in the past. Election campaigns, just like in Kosovo and in Serbia, will continue to be campaigns where warmongering and accusing each other will continue. We will have populism, extremism, populism, and chances of reaching agreement will be always smaller, this is why we should use this momentum and reach an agreement. And then, we will be focused on good governance, the issues that you mentioned, economy development, fighting corruption, fighting organised crime, trafficking and all other negative phenomena, to have prosperity, wellbeing of all citizens. Kosovo has done reforms and it’s very fortunate, Kosovo, in the last two decades, was together with the international community. Just to give you an 6 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
example, all the countries of the Western Balkans have much less criteria to meet or implement to get [inaudible - 22:03].
We had twice more criteria and we have fulfilled all those criteria, and this is also what the EU Commission says. But now we are a victim of failure of the EU’s member states to make a political decision to make the right decision. So, that the young men, especially from Kosovo can show, and this is really injustice, this is prejudice. Well, at least we have a reason to say this is prejudice. Kosovo is on the right path, there is progress, there are challenges that we need to face. Of course, we have to work harder, better, I’m aware of this, but we are doing everything we can, so that we get where we want to be, a developed country of progress, or rule of law, and getting as close as possible, as soon as possible into NATO and the EU.
Adam Ward
Thank you. The lady here in the second row, just behind there yeah?
Cornelia Navari
Cornelia Navari, University of Buckingham. Given the recent success of the Greek diplomacy in the question of Macedonia and the creation of the settlement of the title of Northern Macedonia, do you see a role for Greece in the resolution of the Kosovo/Serbian situation? Or is this a step too far?
Hashim Thaçi
I think the best role for Greece now is to recognise Kosovo. It’s the biggest investment for peace and stability in the region.
Adam Ward
Okay. Yes, the lady here in the right, just keep your hand up.
Zainab Tashkin
Thank you for your speech. My name is Zainab Tashkin. I’m a Turkish student reading European Studies with French pathway, King’s College London. My question will be regarding the 100% tax on Serbian goods, does the President not agree that this is not only counterproductive towards the path to EU membership, as well as detrimental, from a societal perspective, between Serbs and Kosovans, as in provoking negative feelings? Thank you.
Hashim Thaçi
Thank you. As I said in my introductory speech, there are three things that need to be done for the agreement between Kosovo and Serbia to be achieved. First, there should be no unilateral actions by any of the sides, and especially actions that would violate the process. Second, there should be no conditioning for the continuation of the process as Serbia is doing now. And third, international community must be much more unified now, especially the Quint countries. If we have these three conditions met, because now we are in some sort of stalemate or a frozen situation, which is used to reflect in Pristina in Belgrade international community. I’m convinced that if we meet this criteria, we can reach an agreement in 2019, otherwise, I’m afraid we will waste decades. 7 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
And very good to – very happy to see Baroness Ashton here, who was the first, who at least the first agreement between Kosovo and Serbia in 2013, she knows that it’s not easy to have two people who don’t like each other to sit and talk about peace between their two countries. Two people who actually fought against each other, but it’s the only way, dialogue is the only way, there are no alternatives to dialogue. If we reach an agreement, we’ll move quicker in our Europe perspective, Euro-Atlantic perspective as Kosovo and Serbia towards the EU, since they want to be neutral. But again, I reiterate, there would be a transformative role in Kosovo society that will bring reforms, and not dealing with the past. We know that Serbia killed more than 30,000 civilians in Kosovo. Today, we commemorate on daily basis, every day, massacres that were committed in Kosovo. There were 20,000 victims of sexual violence committed by the State of Serbia and of course, I express my concern that why all these crimes have not been treated by the international community. Instead, they are silenced. But still, we cannot live in the past, but again, at the same time, we will not allow for the history to be rewritten. Kosovo and Serbia are not the first countries who have been at war and have achieved peace. But Kosovo and Serbia can be a model, a German/French model for the Western Balkans.
Adam Ward
Thank you. Since you identified Baroness Ashton, I don’t know, I don’t want to put you on the spot, but if there’s anything you’d like to contribute at this stage? Could we bring a microphone here for a second?
Baroness Cathy Ashton
Mr President, you always put me on the spot. So, Cathy Ashton former EU High Representative. I think what is important, beyond the things that you’ve already said about the need to have people talk to each other, who have traditionally been enemies. It’s also vital that the international community coalesces and gets behind the negotiations, in order to provide the soft power support that you need. And we valued that hugely in the agreement that we reached, and we valued it being concentrated on allowing you the space to make decisions. So, I wonder if you would comment on what you feel may be missing right now, in how the international community, and especially ‘cause you’re here perhaps in Britain, though we are obsessed with Brexit, so good luck with that. But, just in terms of trying to think what more could be done, that could really help you and your counterpart, President Vučić, move this along?
Hashim Thaçi
Thank you, Cathy. My main goal in this process is that at the end of the process, there is mutual recognition between Kosovo and Serbia. This means lasting peace in the Western Balkans. What do we need? We need for unified support by the international community. I understand those who are sceptical, and those who criticise the process, and I respect them. But again, my question is, how can I convince Serbia to recognise Kosovo if there is no dialogue? Or who in the world can convince Serbia to recognise Kosovo, without a direct dialogue between Kosovo and Serbia? In fact, this has not been done; nobody was able to do this, neither the United States, nor our friends and partners in Europe. And this is what we need to answer, how to come to this mutual recognition?
The easiest thing to do is to be sceptical to be – to criticise and the most difficult is those – for those who are in the process and who are trying to reach a compromise. All my capital that I’ve built in the struggle for freedom and independence of Kosovo, I’ve put in the service of reaching this peace for – this agreement for peace, reconciliation and for mutual recognition. And only then I can say that we reached the objectives that I want, because the conflict remains open, it’s only frozen. This is why we need from all to support us, first of all, a unified support, first of all, from US and EU, but also, support from EU 8 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
member states. But also, support from the academics, from the media, from the civil society, so that we can achieve peace. I know that there was scepticism for past agreement between Macedonia and Greece, yet the agreement was achieved, and now everybody is celebrating it, and this is actually a miracle.
So, we need space. We need space and to facilitate the agreement, not to put us hurdles that put issues for that bring even more dilemmas. Citizens of Kosovo want peace, want more progress, a better life. They don’t want to hear the narratives of the past only. But Kosovo and Serbia alone cannot reach the agreement. We cannot reach this agreement without Brussels, and without the United States. Of course, London is always there, I always include London in this.
Adam Ward
The gentleman there with his hand raised, and then after him, I’ll come to you.
Euan Grant
Yeah, thank you very much, Mr President, the name’s Euan Grant. I’m a former UK Law Enforcement Officer, who’s worked, for several years, in EU missions in Bosnia and alongside colleagues who worked in UNMIK. I do remember specifically, a UK border agency, former immediate colleague, telling me many years ago, that the progress on visa liberalisation was going very well. So, clearly, that makes it obvious that the oppose – the reasons you haven’t got it, is not the criteria, which backs up your point. My question is, and it follows on perhaps from Baroness Ashton’s question, while certain countries are not providing support for a dialogue and agreement, and perhaps that amounts to support for Serbia, are there any specific international community issues, particularly the US, the EU member states and the EU collectively, which they could keep momentum up to help you practically, maybe reinforcing things they’ve done well before or taking a fresh look at things that haven’t gone so well? What practical help can still be kept to keep attention on the situation? Thank you.
Hashim Thaçi
First, let me focus on the issue of the visa liberalisation. It’s true that we have implemented all the criteria that was put forward, and this is also what the EU Commission says. Why is it not happening now? It’s failure to have a joint unique decision by member states of the European Union. Every time we ask in Brussels, we receive an answer that this country has its own internal issues with migrants, this other country has elections, this other country has EU elections. There are always reasons, in one of the EU member states, why this process is delayed. So, for me, this is a punishment, and I also fear that there’s prejudice behind this. Nobody has reason to be afraid, to be concerned about 1.7 million citizens of Kosovo. We have as much as one million citizens in diaspora, who live in EU and US. Those are known very well, they respect the EU, they respect countries where they are European citizens. So, any delays will reflect negatively in Kosovo. Nevertheless, we only have one way forward that’s EU, so we have to be strategically patient and wait.
But also, to continue working, going back to the agreement, as Baroness Ashton has said, you know how we reached the agreement in 2013? It’s the first peace agreement between Kosovo and Serbia, we’ve negotiated in [inaudible – 35:01] we refused to sign. We negotiated in 2018 Vienna Serbia again refused to sign. It’s the only agreement that was signed by two sides, was in 2013 and how was this agreement reached? Was that we managed to bring – to build a consensus with an EU member state, and then with US and NATO. We need the same position, the same engagement, the same commitment and unity of EU, NATO and the United States. Yes, United States not only they did not lower the interest for Kosovo 9 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
region, they actually increased their interest for Kosovo in the region. Imagine in two months only, we received two letters for – from President Trump in supporting the dialogue and efforts to reach an agreement between Kosovo and Serbia. Me, as President of Kosovo, and President Vučić of Serbia.
So, I really believe there’s the right momentum to have involvement of all to make it easier for us to reach an agreement. I don’t see an obstacle among internationals, because they are all in support of dialogue. In EU and in the US, including London, the whole issue is in the momentum and how to reach the agreement. So, I believe there would be reflecting, debating in Kosovo and Serbia, but also, among the international community, and that in the very near future, we’ll have more dynamic approach, more cohesion that will bring the agreement. But again, we have to be very open and sincere with each other. There can be no agreement between two countries in which only one country will celebrate victory and the other will be seen as a defeat – as being defeated.
Adam Ward
Thank you. Yes, please.
Joanna Hanson
Joanna Hanson, I’m the Executive Director of an NGO based in Kosovo called New Perspective. Mr President, about two years ago you announced your intention to create a Truth and Reconciliation Commission in Kosovo. At present, you have a working group, working to put the initial steps and create this Commission. We hear very little about it, but my question is more specific, please can you say how you think this Truth and Reconciliation Commission will contribute to understanding between Kosovo and Serbia? Thank you very much.
Hashim Thaçi
Thank you. I have initiated the establishing of this, the Commission for Truth and Reconciliation between communities, in particular, between Kosovans, Serbs and Albanians. And the whole process was followed with a debate inside Kosovo, but at the same time, I know that it will not be easy to come to truth and reconciliation. What is very important is that we are taking the best experiences, lessons learned from the whole world, we’ve bring – we’ve brought international experts. There are – there’s a Preparation Team in place and of course, as President, I made a step back, so that this is a process taken forward by experts and with very little political involvement by Kosovo experts, from civil society, with international experts, competent people. So, it is a work in progress. What is very impressive is that associations of the missing persons or families of a missing person, both Albanians and Serbs, are part of this process.
They share the same pain, and this commission, under no circumstances, it will not challenge, and it will not replace our quest for justice. But we mean through truth to come to justice as well. It’s an important step forward. It will be a slow process, but I’m sure that there will be positive results at the end. I know that the Kosovo society supports this. Of course, we’ve been criticised, especially from the ethnic groups, by some in Albanian communities, saying that Serbia first must ask for apology for their crimes and then sit down and talk with Kosovo and recognise Kosovo and then discuss about reconciliation. Once Kosovo is recognised by Serbia, I don’t know why we have to talk reconciliation, I don’t know. I’ve never met anybody who can ask Serbia to reconcile with Kosovo. We can stay and wait, but then we will all waste time and lose. This is why I believe in dialogue, in communication, and good neighbourly relations.
10 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
Adam Ward
Good, further questions? Yes, there’s a gentleman right there at the back.
Haniff Fadil
Thank you, Adam. Haniff Fadil, former Advisor British Government, British Parliament. Mr President, it’s nice to see you again. I last met you at the Bled Strategic Forum. My question is, with respect to the partner that you have for dialogue, i.e. President Vučić. President Vučić has been subject to lots of demonstrations recently against his rule. The Russians are very strong. He’s quite close to the Russians. To what extent does that affect dialogue and the future of peace and security in the region? The United Arab Emirates are very close and are big funders of Serbia, and its development, and also, we have Qatar, to some extent, dealing with I think at least one opposition figure in Serbia. To what extent does that affect your dialogue with Serbia and peace and security in the Western Balkans? Thank you.
Hashim Thaçi
Each country has its own strategic interests and based on which they both – their own directions or where they want to go, their future. Kosovo is very clear where it wants to go, it’s Euro-Atlantic path, it wants to be part of NATO and EU, with strategic partnerships, special relationship with the United States. I wish that regardless of developments in London, we will maintain a strategic partnership with UK. Serbia, it’s true that is the country in the Western Balkans where non-Western ideologies are flourishing. This is true. There’s absolute involvement by Russia, not only in current institutions, but also, in the opposition, in the media, in civil society, in security mechanisms, in economy. But under – regardless, they are still our neighbours, and we have to deal with them. We have to reach an agreement with them, and then we shall look more globally the future of two countries. For us, it’s important that first we have peace. I know that this process will not be easy, but either for Serbian leadership to build peace with Kosovo, because if you look at the narrative dominating the media in Belgrade today, it’s almost the same animosity towards the Albanians.
Or perhaps even worse than in the time of Milošević. But if there is a leader as it is President Vučić now, who is ready to sit down to discuss, even to discuss the recognition of Kosovo, why is that we cannot sit down, as some sceptics say? After all, we are Presidents of two sovereign countries, we need to support us, not to put obstacles, not to prevent us from reaching agreement. All the countries of the region want an agreement between Kosovo and Serbia. If somebody is putting problems between us and Bosnia and Herzegovina this is wrong. The problem of Bosnia is older and will remain a problem, even after Kosovo reaches agreement with Serbia. As I said, I underline, we will not allow borders along ethnic lines. Kosovo will remain a multi-ethnic society just like Serbia will remain a multi-ethnic society. More than 70% of the Kosovans live in the Southern parts of Kosovo and there are Albanians in Serbia. So, it’s sovereign countries, recognised by more than one hundred countries around the world, which is Kosovo now.
I’m not an expert on border demarcation, so don’t ask me about borders, about valleys, rivers, we did border demarcation with Macedonia, we were criticised. We had criticism when we did the border demarking with Montenegro, but it was done. There will be debate when we do border demarcation with Serbia, but that issue will be closed as well. Now, my people should not ask me to correct borders, or historical injustice in borders, I know these injustices, I’m a historian, but we have to be realistic, pragmatic in finding solutions for open issues that we have. But this doesn’t mean that there are no people in Serbia and in Kosovo who want to actually redraw borders, correct historical borders, only in 11 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
order to get some votes, but prevent both countries from moving towards NATO and the EU. But there’s - it doesn’t mean that I don’t – I’m not able to be a populist. I’ve won many elections, but beyond the party interest today, is the interest of the state, and the need to reach an agreement.
Adam Ward
And thank you. Cancan I ask you a question about your assessment of your relationship with the United States and this particular the administration led by Donald Trump? Your key strategic objectives are to get Kosovo inside the European Union and inside NATO. The Trump administration is one that’s voiced a great deal of scepticism towards the European project and the President has voiced a lot of pro-Brexit sentiments, in terms of getting the UK out. We know that he takes a very transactional and sentimental approach towards the NATO Alliance and there’s been, you know, speculation about whether the US should reconsider its own membership, and so on. How would you describe the role of the United States in the process that you’re trying to bring about? Is it a – this a real problem? Is it part of the vacuum that’s stopping you from making progress?
Hashim Thaçi
In fact, when we speak about the role of the US, we should look in the past as well. Because not a single agreement in Western Balkans was achieved without leadership role of the United States. I’m talking about the last three decades. Be it in Dayton or in Rambouillet in France, or the Ohrid Agreement in Macedonia, of control for the [inaudible – 46:49] of Berlin, other agreements that have been reached. Our goal, nevertheless, is to be part of the European family, and we will be part of the European family of nations. But emotions of the people of Kosovo and the link with US is normal and must be respected because it is an emotion that is linked directly with freedom, independence of Kosovo. I’m one of those personalities who has experienced directly the involvement of US, and I know that there would be no bombing campaign without the leading role of the United States, and we will be forever grateful for this. But this determination would not be there if there was no leadership also by UK and unity within the NATO Alliance, and this unity must be built and maintained.
I’m a local leader, so I cannot deal with global developments, but these global developments also affect my country in our region, regarding the new administration it is elected by the US citizens, will respect their will. If you ask how citizens across how they feel about developments in Kosovo, they have different opinions for democracy, we must respect this. There are two things that I need, or three things that I need to emphasise today regarding the new administration, regarding the visa-à-vis the Western Balkans. During this administration, NATO – Montenegro joined NATO. I was personally participating in the meeting when Vice President Pence met the leaders of the region and announced this. Also, Macedonia is now moving towards NATO. Now, as Kosovo has established our own forces, our army, and we are on our path to NATO programmes and then NATO membership.
And what is also very important, when everybody thought that US and new administration will not care about Kosovo and the Balkans anymore, I will re-emphasise only in two months we had two letters by President Trump. Two for me and two for President of Serbia, to work for a peace agreement, which is in the interest of – particularly interest for United States, but also, all other countries of the West. I am very grateful to this administration, just like I’m grateful to administration of President Clinton or President Bush or President Obama. The same for administration of President Trump. Actually, we have a new dynamic of early administration involving Kosovo. Previous administration was supporting EU in the Western Balkans, and I always emphasise that this is not enough, want to support EU. But again, we are European, and our future is in the European family of nations. 12 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
Adam Ward
Further questions from the floor? Yes, please, sir.
Archibald Bradby
Thank you. My name is Archibald Bradby. I’m a Member of Chatham House. I want to find out how are you going to balance the Chinese influence, vis-à-vis Russia and EU in relation to building a comprehensive framework with Serbia, in terms of dialogue?
Hashim Thaçi
It would be very important to have a co-ordination of the international community. The West with Russia, regarding developments in the Western Balkans. Can this co-ordination be done or not, achieved or not, I remain sceptical? But at the same time, I don’t see it as impossible. We must believe in the leading role of the EU in the dialogue processes between Kosovo and Serbia, then we should not allow international conferences where we have other actors involved, actors who perhaps don’t want to see progress in Kosovo in the region. Yes, it’s true that I’ve discussed with President Putin of Russia, in Paris about the future of dialogue between Kosovo and Serbia, in the presence of the leaders of all the world. It was not really a tête-à-tête meeting, and I openly asked him how will Russia react if Kosovo and Serbia reach an agreement? And he was very straightforward, saying that he has no reason not to support that. And this was confirmed by a spokesperson of Krem – by Kremlin spokesperson two days’ later. Now, is this achievable? Is it the reality? I don’t know. Those who have worked with Russia and with Putin more know this better. For me, it was the first meeting, it was actually the first meeting of a President of Kosovo with the President of Russia. And I’ve heard that Moscow has said the same to Belgrade, if this is the approach, then this is very positive and something very positive.
Adam Ward
Yes, the gentleman at the back.
Munif Calawoon
Hi, I’m…
Adam Ward
Just wait for the microphone, and behind you.
Munif Calawoon
Sorry. I’m Munif Calawoon from UCL. I want to ask, what do you think Kosovo’s options would be if, in the long-term, it becomes clear Kosovo may end up in a similar situation to Turkey, where they’re left for a very long period of time in talks and with promises of maybe joining the EU, but it would never happen? What alternative economic paths do you think Kosovo could take to mitigate this situation?
13 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
Hashim Thaçi
First, I don’t believe that there are any attempts to put parallels and compare Kosovo with Turkey, because they cannot be compared, after all. We are working hard in reforms. We believe strongly that we will move, in the near future, with concrete steps in our European perspective and there is full support of the population for the European perspective, but it’s also a programme, determination of every political party to become an EU member. In Kosovo, we should not be worried, or we should not be worried one thing. There might be new Presidents, new Prime Ministers, new political parties, but the vision forward for Kosovo will not – never change, it is NATO and EU.
Adam Ward
Thank you very much. Maybe I can just conclude with more of a personal question. We were looking earlier at a biography of you that’s been written, and the plates of the photographs demonstrate really, a rather unconventional political career, if I can put it that way?
They begin with images of somebody in a camouflage jacket, cleaning a rifle, to somebody who’s then present at the Declaration of Independence of the country that he’s been fighting for, and now into international summitry. And this may be a slightly sort of soft question, but do you give yourself time to reflect back on your political career and have you drawn any real lessons about your experience that you’d care to share with us?
Hashim Thaçi
Of course, by all means. Of course, I’ve learned a lot and I’ve learned, during my career, not only from school, but especially from life, from my experience, and this is the best school, actually. I was a student leader, and I would never change my activities against the Milošević regime, against the Communist Party. I don’t know how a demonstration could’ve be organised differently, but we organised demonstrations. I am one of the Founders of the Kosovo Liberation Army in 92, and I would never change, in my life, my decision to start an armed resistance against the Serbian Milošević regime. I’m proud of this. I had a very nice life actually, because I have a family, in diaspora, but I was the spoilt kid in the family. I knew how to enjoy life, just like any other young men and women, as a student with travels, love. But I actually elected the most difficult path, because I was convinced that Kosovo needs more a fighter than a historian that will work in the archives around the world. I got together, and together, with the others, we wrote the new chapter in the history of Kosovo, we brought freedom and independence.
It was impossible to imagine that this small guerrilla group will built such a close co-operation with the biggest military alliance in the world with NATO. And this makes me even more proud, because it means that we’ve established values, principles to achieve what could not be imagined, it was seen as impossible, which was the miracle of freedom and independence, ‘cause I see Tim here, he was in Kosovo during the Milošević era as well. He saw the repression and what the situation was like in Kosovo. This is why I say that Kosovo is very different today, and the victims that have fallen for freedom, independence, and now we work and I hope that we will realise membership in NATO, and they are long processes, but still easier. What would I have done different? I would’ve perhaps worked better, quicker, with more quality. I’m sure that I made mistakes, but I’ve learned from my mistakes, therefore – and, actually, I had to make very difficult decisions, that have cost me politically in my political career, but I’m nevertheless, proud of them, just like now, in the dialogue with Serbia. But all these will be shaken, and it will be debatable and 14 Serbia-Kosovo Dialogue: The Future of Peace and Security in the Western Balkans
that can be violated, if we don’t achieve peace with Serbia. This is why I’m full with my whole personality, I’m involved in reaching an agreement with Serbia.
Adam Ward
Well, Mr President, thank you very much for coming to Chatham House, and I’m sure there are many people in the audience here that would wish both President Vučić and yourself success in your ongoing dialogue. Thank you very much [applause].
Hashim Thaçi
Thank you.