There’s a wonderful book, Non-Violent Soldier of Islam. Incredible story. They would walk and just The Technoskeptic heal the hillside and rebuild schools, and sometimes the British thought that it was a joke and would open fire on them and they would open their arms. It’s incredible. And then once Pakistan became separate, Interview: Ethan he was imprisoned by his own government because he was dangerous. ’Cause he was just going to live his truth. Hughes of the But they had to switch guards with him because he’d become friends with the guards, and the guards Possibility Alliance would be like, “Why do we have this amazing per- son?” And of course, because he’s Muslim, that story’s been hidden, pushed away, that the largest standing part two by Mo Lotman peace army that we know of in human history was inspired by Islam.

n the first part of this interview, Ethan Hughes You can take so many cases of history, Harriet talked with The Technoskeptic about events Tubman went to freedom and then once she crossed I that led to the founding of The Possibility the line she realized, “I’m not free until everyone’s Alliance, an intentional, electricity-free, petroleum- free, permaculture community in northeastern Mo Lotman Missouri. He described daily life on the homestead and the rewards and challenges of the gift economy and sustainable living. In the second part, Hughes expounds on the mission of social justice that drives him and how it is intertwined with his lifestyle. Plus, how do children raised without electricity or money react to moder- nity? The interview has been condensed and edited.

Inspirations ML: Do you think that we generally underestimate what we’re capable of as a human race?

EH: Yeah. I point to my inspirations, which I think of in education. In first grade I learned about some amazing people like Bacha Kahn. A lot of people don’t know about him. In what’s now Pakistan, when the British were assaulting Northern India, the Pashtun, which are Muslim, Bacha Kahn was a rich landowner and he decided to create a non-violence army, try- ing to heal the land from the war. They would heal anyone, any side. And they had a standing army of 100,000 non-violent soldiers. It’s the largest standing non-violent army known in the history of the world. free,” and went back and brought 300 women and Possibility Alliance and one of the founders looks like children across the line to freedom. She had a bigger part of the problem. bounty on her than any of the other generals or any- Mark Becker said, “In that moment I was either one in the Civil War. Just this small woman, who just going to be terrified of you or I was going to come,” and demanded everyone tasted freedom. And so those are he just came to the barn, put his arms around me, and the moments that take great courage, but to realize, I just started to cry. I mean, all that pressure of watch- yeah, if one human being has done it, it reminds me ing my mom suffer through another death. And that’s that I can imperfectly go for it. the difference, that we’re imperfect. But the response isn’t, “Oh, you’ve now lost your membership, you’re a Imperfection powder keg.” It’s more of like, “Wow, you actually need ML: The imperfectness of it, I think is important to get more support than any of us.” And that was this pivotal across. And I like that you mention that, because I think moment in my life where Mark came into the barn and for a lot of people, there’s a barrier there between what just hugged me. they want to go for when they feel like they will fail or Someone who came to the Possibility Alliance they can’t live up to someone like Harriet Tubman. who sold their car and gave all their money to the homeless population in St. Louis was the same person EH: Yeah. We’ve become a big target too, because we’re who stole the Reece’s peanut butter cups from a visit- imperfect. So here I’m trying to practice non-violence ing youth group. and be peaceful, and a couple years ago, with visitors And so here’s the paradox, the same person, that’s there, my mom’s second husband passed away, and I being human. So when they drove away, thinking one got into an argument with my wife, and I walked out, of the kids ate it, we sat in a circle and that person grabbed this bamboo thing, knocked against the door, shared, and that person laughed and cried, and we’re the bamboo broke and went through and smashed the like “Here we are! The Possibility Alliance!” window. I think when we take those people off the pedestal, My daughter starts screaming, I walk outside, I’m you know to realize that Gandhi did amazing things, so upset ’cause we have to replace the industrial win- and also from his kids perspective wasn’t really there dow that I kick a chair and the chair goes up on the as a parent. Had some strange sexual issues. Some table and smashes this jug. And then I kick another people say that Martin Luther King drank and cheated chair that flies in the outdoor kitchen and a visitor, on his wife, and it’s like, we’re human. Those things Mark Becker, is like making pizza in our cob oven, and don’t cancel each other out. And I say that with great I didn’t realize he was there. honor. I dealt with anger, growing up in Gloucester, like When we think we have to be perfect, it freezes there was fistfights. And so the first response was us. We have to work and then forgive ourselves, and just embarrassment. Here people are coming to the I’m accountable. I had to clean up my relationships.

All drawings from The Possibility Alliance’s Newsletter Thirst, Issue 1 lifestyle choice isn’t anything, you should do activ- ism. Activism isn’t anything, you should do lobbying. If you’re called to something, let’s do it all. We need change from inside, outside, up, down. And I think it impacts you. When I was at the frack- ing action in Winona, [Minnesota], the largest mass arrest in Winona, we blocked shipments of frack sand. And the owner came out and was really angry. And he turned to everyone and said, “Oh, you’re all using natu- ral gas in your stove, and this is hypocrisy!” and 200 people were like, “Well, that’s true,” and I turned to him and I said, “Well, I use solar cookers and rocket stoves. That’s it, I haven’t used natural gas in years.” And he looked at me for a couple seconds and he turned to everyone and he said, “This guy can be here!” I think we respond to integrity. I think it has a lot of hard-to-track impact. ’Cause then he had to really Not just like, oh, you messed up. Accountability. But think, “Oh, there’s another way.” So now, who knows, it makes it really exciting, ’cause when you’re tak- he went home and thought “solar cooker.” ing risks, you’re gonna make mistakes. And we need to take a lot of risks right now and make a lot of ML: Your approach is very interesting because it’s very mistakes. holistic. You’re looking at everything and you’re try- ing to align it into one coherent world view, which I Ideological Impurity don’t think a lot of people necessarily do. And that’s EH: We want to support everyone’s vision. So we’re in very inspiring. great solidarity with Dancing Rabbit eco-village that’s doing solar and carpooling with veggie oil. All the EH: I’ve just noticed that it’s been very powerful to ships are important. have all those self-transformations creating alterna- Scott Mann was just out, that does the tives like biking, and also being socially and politically Permaculture Podcast. In the interview [he] was like, engaged. Both direct action and also helping local “Yes, and I’m dreaming of a day where we don’t need towns shift and not creating the government as an this information to get out, that I can close down my enemy. Especially local government. computer and it’s done.” Like using a technology to We’re getting a bike lane and the mayor was transition out of it. So that’s the exciting part. invited, said “Thanks for inviting me. Progressives in We’re all where we’re at, you know, doing our Missouri, they never invite me, but I want a bike path, important work and trusting that any movement people are overweight.” towards more justice, any movement towards less You know, actually believing that if we reach out…. impact to the Earth, we have to celebrate. So a friend I think that enemy identity, we see it in politics right gets rid of the SUV, and gets a Lexus, or another friend now, it just divides us. Where is the actual overlap? gets rid of their second house and shares it in their Like how Republicans and Native Americans came community, that’s a celebration. together to block the Keystone Pipeline. They said the cowboys and the Indians. But what an incredible coali- Lifestyle as Lever tion! And that’s dangerous to the corporate powers. EH: I realized, OK, I can lobby and do reformist work, I can do direct action, but why not put a lever into every Raising a Family part of my life? So I’m starting to show an imperfect, ML: Now what about your kids, you have two daugh- different way to live. I don’t like the arguments that ters, is that right? EH: Yeah. She never sees a purchase. We only have three bills that happen. One is the phone, the landline that keeps us ML: So have they grown up completely in this connected to groups. And so we’re in Boston once, visiting environment? my mom, and we’re at the Museum of Science. And at the end, my mom took her into the gift shop. It’s like, “You can EH: Yes. pick one thing.” And she just looked around and she’s like, “I don’t need anything.” ’Cause she never saw any adult ML: Do they get off of the farm at all, or no? buying anything her whole life. So it’s nothing extraordi- nary, it’s just to see, wow, a child can be content. Because EH: Yeah. We go down to Kansas City—we love to take she’s getting everything she needs. them to live theatre. At one point, some of Etta’s friends She has belonging, she has inspiration, she’s around were going to see films and she said, “I really want to see adults that are always like “I’m going to do this crazy a movie,” and we said, “Well, how ’bout this. We’ll take you thing!” so she believes she can do anything, so she has to twice as much live theatre.” She’s like, “Yeaaahhh!” So integrity and her belief in capability. I feel like that’s we’re going to the theatre, some of it very local, like high enough. Some friends think it’s child abuse, like “They’re school. So even that is a movement away from suffering!” I tell people, and she’s like riding the the Hollywood culture. Instead of billions draft horse, and I’m like, this is a dream for going to one director and actor, it’s an eight-year-old. going to people who want a cottage industry to entertain us. Health Care ML: I wanted to ask you, what about ML: What’s their reaction when health issues, if people get sick. What they’re interacting with the mod- do you do for that? ern world? EH: That’s a complex one. I think the EH: My oldest, Etta, she’s like, “Why first level is preventative medicine, eat- is there lights on everywhere?” They’re ing really well, staying healthy. One situ- not afraid, they love the darkness. It’s nat- ation, we had someone fall down a ladder. So ural, you know, there’s no problem with it. she was life-flighted. She has a cracked skull and We were once at the free Art Institute in Kansas City a broken back. I don’t have an option for this one. I’m not looking over the city, and a friend is like, “Isn’t it so beauti- going to put some comfrey poultice. A helicopter came ful?” And Etta looked and she’s probably six, and she said, and life-flighted her, and my dear friend Hannah’s alive “If you take away all the buildings and concrete it would and doing amazing stuff in midwest for bike paths and be amazing!” local food. She’s also been to cities where there’s community So there’s a realistic [response]. Where some people’d gardens and the bike path and visiting friends in Eugene, be like “Ha ha! We got you!” Like, well, no. My mom’s a where she’s like, “This is amazing!” We can dream of more nurse and they say 90% of hospital visits are not neces- condensed urban areas that are really life-giving. So it’s sary. If we were actually putting the hospital’s money into that creativity. So they love their life. preventative care to teach health and empowerment and [She] meets people from all over the world, and fami- diet, and then let’s save the 10% for when we really need lies, and our next-door neighbors’ kids. She can just walk it. It would be amazing if everyone in our public school on a trail over to a friend’s house. And in the community, system learned at least EMT, learned herbalism, learned too, there’s always someone to take her on an adventure, response, [felt] empowered that it wasn’t just this big to fish… So they’re really happy. And if they choose some- entity that had all the information. thing when they’re 13, she’s like “Well, I’m interested in The most exciting thing happening with health care, making bridges,” we’ll be like, “OK! See what happens.” we’ve been approved and haven’t fully done the last step to get PEACH, which is a community health care. Hundreds EH: Yeah. So, and those who fell away, that small percent, of people pay in to this fund, I think the fund is currently how close were those friendships anyhow? If I said, “I want 14 million. I don’t think any claim has been turned away to follow my dreams and sail around the world,” you’d be from it. like, “Great!” But if it’s a dream that confronts and disrupts, We can spend about 90 dollars a year based on our it is trickier. “Oh. Live outside of capitalism. This is uncom- income to get good health coverage. And that’s happen- fortable.” But to realize I’m not doing it to make people ing with churches, with collectives, I saw it happening in uncomfortable. It leads to really hard conversations that Eugene, people are starting to pool and create their own deepen my friendships. community health care. I think that’s one thing that needs to happen. The good news is every system needs to be radi- ML: It’s just the type of thing you can’t easily do in the mid- cally revolutionized. dle of Boston, for example, to have a permaculture, draft horses, and all of the rest. ML: That’s the good news. EH: Yeah, I think it would have to be creative, but we’re see- EH: That’s the good news. ’Cause whatever you’re inter- ing models in Portland and Seattle and where an incredible ested in, it needs help. percent of people’s needs, through both dumpstering and waste…is being provided, which I think is the exciting thing Transformation at home is, how much could you do in Boston to push that edge? ML: I have to say I’m very attracted to the idea of what One of my inspirations, he gets five things a year you’re doing, but the thing that would hold me back is just imported. He grows wheat in people’s back yards and has having all of my friends, all of my community that I have co-ops and hand does it. He’s a daylighter, which scares the here in this world, that I basically would have to abandon crap outta me. to live that life that you’re living. ML: Meaning? EH: Right now people are doing it everywhere. My friend in Eugene just turned off her lights. And the amazing thing EH: Daylighters don’t even use candles. When it’s dark, it’s was, you go down the block, there could be darkness, and dark, when it’s light, it’s light, and they get in the cosmic on a Friday night, 50 people would be at her place. You rhythm. know, playing guitar and hanging out. You know moths are We were visiting [a community] in the Pyrenees, and attracted by light, it’s like humans were attracted by the it was in the cliffs of the Pyrenees and I had a headlamp. mystery. And here from Eugene, I was like mister Luddite. “That’s the All my hometown buddies from Gloucester, many of guy who doesn’t drive and they have candlelights,” and so them have visited me. My friend Gary Wilson has now in that community I was called Las Vegas, ’cause none of been three times with his family. And, you know, first, his them used any lamps. They just used a bat sense! daughter disappears over the hill with Etta and Etta’s six Like, I don’t want to fall off this cliff! So I’d be walking and they’re eating berries and he’s like “Whoa! We were around with my headlamp, and I was used to being mister just running around for like seven hours and I didn’t know Luddite, but they’d be like “Ah, Las Vegas!” But, you know, where she was.” ’Cause for most parents in the city, they’re it’s good for humility to realize no matter how far you go… always observed. So my friendships are deeper. Because it’s no longer ML: Someone’s gone further. just based on going to the movie, it’s based on, like, we have to do a lot of work to realize I love and honor you. You know my friends and our connection are more authentic. I did lose my girlfriend.

ML: But you gained a wife.