(Tuesday, 9 August, 1986.] JOINT SITTING ?i41qi1aftuw (EoTunnit Tuesday, the 9th August, 1966 CONTENTS ADDRESS-IN-REPLY : FIFTH DAY & Speakers on Amsendment to Motion- The Rion. V. . Ferry...... t The Rion. A, F, Griffth" ISO J. Hellman...... 180 ThThe Ron.HOn: E. C. Noose...... 159 Tuesday, the 9th August, 1966 The Hon: F. H. ff. Lavery...... 164 CONTENTS Page The Non. H. H. C. Stubbs...... o JOINT SITTIN- The Hon. W. F. Witlesee 107 Bent, Vacancy * Election of Senator .. ... 157 Speakers on Moton- The Hon: 0. E. D. Brand...... 171. TheR on P. D: Wil[molt...... QUESTIONS ON NOTICE- SENATE VACANCY Electricity Supplies : Domestic Consumers 158 Geraldton Hospital : Conversion to Geriatrics Home 150 In accordance with the Standing Orders Motor Vehicle Thetis. Number, Recovery, and passed by both Houses of Parliament and Damage .. .. . 15 approved by Executive Council, the mem- Roads-Lower South-West :Expenditure, and Pro- gramme of Work ...... 159 bers of the Legislative Council and the Standard Gauge Rallway-Kalgoorie Service * Time- Legislative Assembly met in joint sitting table anid Bus Connections...... 15 Sulphur: Imports and Cost ... 159 in the Legislative Council Chamber to fill Underwater Blastlog-Cookbttra Scuti : Compensa- the vacancy in the representation of lon Claim...... 158 Western Australia in the Senate of the SENATE VACANCY- Federal Parliament caused by the death Governor's Message...... 11 of Senator 'The Hon. Sir Shane Paltridge, Filling or Vacancy . .. 157 K.E.E. The President of the Legislative Council (The Hon. L. C. Diver), in accordance The PRESIDENT (The Hon. L. C. with the Standing orders, took the Chair Diver) took the Chair at 4.30 p.m., and at 4.40 p.m. He was accompanied by the read prayers. Speaker of the Legislative Assembly (The Hon. J. M. Hearman). SENATE VACANCY Election of Senator Governor's Message THE PRESIDENT: This joint sitting has Message from the Governor received been called to choose a person to hold and read transmitting a copy of a des- the place in the Senate of the Common- patch received by him from the President wealth of Australia rendered vacant by of the Senate of the Commonwealth of the death of Senator the Hon. Sir Shame Australia, notifying that a vacancy had Paltridge, KC.B.E., notification of which has occurred in the representation of the been reported to each House by His Ex- State of We stern Australia, in the Senate, cellency the Governor. I now call for Senator Sir Shane Paltridge, K.B.E., hav- nominations to fill the vacancy. ing died on the 21st January, 1966. MR, BRAND (Greenough-Premiier): I Filling of Vacancy move- THE HON. A. F. GRIFFITH (North That Reginald Greive Withers, Metropolitan-Minister for Mines) [4.35 Solicitor of Spencer Street, Bunbury, p.m.J: 1 move- be elected to fill the vacancy in the That with reference to Message No. 1 Federal Pariament due to the death from His Excellency the Governor, the of Senator the Honourable Sir Shane Honourable the President be requested Paltridge, K.B.E. to confer with Mr, Speaker in order I have Mr. Withers' assurance that, if to fix a day and place whereon and elected, he is prepared to act. whereat the Legislative Council and MR. NALDER (Katanning-Minister for the Legislative Assembly, sitting and Agriculture): I second the motion. voting together, shall choose a person to hold the place of Senator whose THE PRESIDENT: Are there any fur- place has become vacant. ther nominations for the position? There being no further nominations, I declare Question put and passed. that Reginald Greive Withers has been THE PRESIDENT: With reference to elected to hold the vacant place in the Message No. 1 from His Excellency the Senate. That concludes the joint sitting. Governor and In conformity with the left the Chair. Joint Standing Rules and Orders relating The President to the election of a Senator to the Federal Parliament, arrangements have been made whereby a sitting of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly will be held in the Legislative Council Chamber forth- [COUNCIL.] with for the Purpose of electing a person STANDARD GAUGE RAILWAY to fill the vacancy notified in His Excel- Kalgoorlie Service: Timetable and Bus lency's Message. Connections Sitting suspended during the joint sit- 2. The Hon. R. H. C. STUBBS asked the ting of both Houses to elect a Federal Minister for Mines: Senator (vide report ante) from 4.36 to (1) Has a passenger timetable been 4.45 p.m. arranged by the W.A.G.R. for ar- rival and departure of trains from QUESTIONS (7): ON NOTICE and to Kcalgoorlie when operating UNDERWATER BLASTING under standard gauge? Cockburn Sound: Compensation Claims (2) If so, what are the details? (3) What connecting arrangements 1.The Hon. Rt. THOMPSON asked the will there be for road bus passen- Minister for Mines: gers from the Kalgoorlie-Norse- (1) Is the Public Works Department man-Esperanee route, arriving at the controlling body for the pres- and departing from Kalgoorlie? ent underwater blasting in Cock- burn Sound? The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH replied: (2) In view of the fact that some 30 (1) No. This service will not com- written complaints of damage to mence before 1968 and it is prem- property have been lodged with ature to go firm on passenger time- the Kwinana Shire Council, alleg- tables. ed to have been caused by this (2) Answered by (1). underwater blasting, who is to be held responsible for the repair to (3) Answered by (1). The needs of this damage-the Government or Passengers using connecting ser- the contracting company? vices will be taken into account (3) If the company concerned is res- in planning standard gauge ser- ponsible, will individual ratepayers vices. have to initiate private action to satisfy their damage claims, or MOTOR VEHICLE THEFTS will the Government take similar Number, Recovery, and Damage action to effect the repairs or com- 3. The Hon. H. R. ROBINSON asked pensate for the damage, as was the Minister for Justice: done in the Toodyay area during (1) How many motor vehicles were the construction of the standard reported stolen throughout the gauge railway? State during the months of May, (4) When can ratepayers and the shire June, and July, 1966? council expect an inspection and investigation of their claims? (2) How many of these vehicles have: (5) Will the department supervise all (a) not been recovered; and further blasting by having ex- (b) been recovered in damaged perienced officers present on the condition? boats from which the work is The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH replied: being carried out, to: (1) May...... 123. (a) control the amount of ex- June...... 114. plosive being used for each July ...... 152. blast; and (2) (a) Fourteen vehicles; being eight (b) the frequency of the blasts? cars and utilities, and six The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH replied: motor cycles. (1) NO; it is the Fremantle Port (b) Four badly damaged. Authority. Twenty slightly damaged. (2) The contracting company (Dredg- ing Industries (Australia) Pty. ELECTRICITY SUPPLIES Ltd.) has instructed that all claims be directed for their attention. Domestic Consumers (3) All claims will be dealt with by 4. The Hon. C. E. GRIFFITHS asked the the company. Minister for Mines: (4) All claims have been referred to Will the Minister advise the House the company's legal advisers, and the total number of domestic con- the matter is now in their hands. sumers of electricity, including (5) No. The company advises that the fiats separately metered, who were amount of explosives being used recorded as having used 180 units is in conformity with safe opera- or less for any completed quarter ting limits as advised by the Mines during the following periods:- Department. (1) The twelve months ended- The company is fully conscious of (a) the 31st December, 1964; its responsibilities in this regard and and is most careful that the Mines (b) the 31st December, 1965 ? Department's requirements are (2) The six months ended the 30th being observed at all times. June, 1966? [Tuesday, 9 August. 1966.] 159

The H-on. A. F. GRIFFITH replied: into Australia and Western Aust- I amn advised that in order to ralia during the years ended the obtain this information it would 30th June, 1965, and 1966 from- require a great deal of clerical (a) Canada; time and effort in the examination (b) U.S.A.; of approximately 160,000 accounts involving 1,600,000 entries. (c) Mexico; and If the information is of such (d) other sources? importance and the honourable (2) What was the cost in Australian member insists, it can be obtained, currency per ton? but, I repeat, at considerable time and effort. (3) If there is a cost per ton increase, what would be the reason for it? SULPHUR Imports and Cost The Eon. A. F. GRIFFITH replied: 5. The Hon. R. H. C. STUBBS asked the The answer to (1) and (2) of this Minister for Mines: question is in the form of a sched- (1) How much sulphur was imported ule as follow,.:- 1964/65 1065/66 Country of Origin Australia Western Australia Australia W~estern Australia Tons $ Per Ton- Tons 8Per Ton' Tons 8 Per Ton Toms 8Per Ton' Ca..ada...... 175,664 16.17 42.819 10.52 l15,063 21.5 30,294 20.39 U.S.A. -135,131 16.74 24,203 16.17 139,671 22.3 80,521 24. 73 mexico...... 03,639 20.16 23,775 19.05 41,590 25.2 4,4S0 21.88 Other...... 25 24.22 29 39.5 Totals 374.450 1707 9,9 17.12 407,253 22.7 115,302 23.48 F.O.B. port of shipment. (3) Higher world prices of sulphur. ROADS Lower South- West: Expenditure, and Programmne of Work GERALDTON HOSPITAL 7. The Hon. J. M. THOMSON asked the Conversion to Geriatrics Home Minister for Local Government: Further to my questions of the 3rd 6 The Hon. J. HEITMAN asked the Min- August, 1966, will the Minister in- ister for Health: form the House:- (1) As the new regional hospital in (1) What is the amount proposed. Geraldton is to be opened this to be spent this Year on the year, has the Government given Lake Grace-Pingrup section consideration to fitting the present of the Lake Grace-Albany hospital up as a home for geriat- road? rics? (2) How much of the section not (2) If so. what help will be needed primed or sealed at present locally for the successful opera- will be:- tion of the venture? (a) constructed and gravel- led? The Hon. G. C. MacCINNON replied: (b) reconditioned and prim- ed; and (1) and (2) The future of this hos- (c) sealed? pital is still under consideration (3) What mileage of gravel road The Government is anxious to will remain between Lake establish a complete aged care Grace and Pingrup at the end Organisation in Geraldton. To of this financial year? this end a great deal of considera- tion is currently being given to the The Hon. L. A. LOGAN replied: future use of the Victoria, Mater- (1) $90,800. nity and Rosella hospitals. Care (2) (a) 5.2 miles. of the aged, however, is not (b) '7.6 miles. limited to hospitals only, and in (c) 4.6 miles. pursuance of its recently enlarged (3) Ten miles. policy the Government is endeav- ouring to facilitate the expansion in Geraldton of social activities ADDRESS-IN-REPLY: FIFTH DAY for the fit, meals on wheels and Amendment to Motion allied domiciliary and accom- modation services for the frail, Debate resumed, from the 4th August, and hospital care for the aged on the following motion by The Hon. V. J. None of this can be accomplished Ferry:- until after the opening of the re- That the following Address be pre- gional hospital. sented to His Excellency the Governor [COUNCIL.]

in reply to the Speech he has been my remarks on the amendment before us pleased to deliver to Parliament:- -and I oppose lb-I will demonstrate that May it please Your Excellency: the points of view and some of the grounds We, the members of the Legisla- of Mr. Strickland have no foundation. tive Council of the Parliament of It is interesting to note that the word- Western Australia in Parliament ing of this amendment is identical with assembled, beg to express our an amendment moved in another place. loyalty to our Most Gracious It is also interesting to note that the Sovereign and to thank Your Ex- grounds, or the basis for putting the cellency for the Speech you have amendment forward in another place, were been pleased to deliver to Parlia- not far removed from those on which menit. Mr. Strickland based his case. This may To zchich The Hon. H. C. Strickland be a coincidence, but I find it difficult to ftad moved an amendment- understand. Mr. Strickland drew our That attention to a number of factors. He the following words be added said, in endeavouring to give support to to the motion:- the amendment he had moved, that the but wve regret the Government Road Maintenance (Contribution) Act had has not foreshadowed any move brought upon the people of the north and to abolish or substantially reduce the people of the State generally an im- the heavy burden placed upon the post they were not able to stand. Dur- costs of production and the cost ing the course of my remarks I shall tell of living throughout the country the House the extent to which this charge areas by the Road Maintenance was responsible for increasing prices. (Contribution) Act, No. 69 of 1905. Before I do that I think it would be appropriate for me to pass some remarks THE 11ON. A. F. GIFFITTI1 (North generally on the points raised by the hon- Metropolitan - Minister for Mines) ourable member. First of all he said the [5 p.m.]: The Standing Orders of this situation in Wittenoom wvas this: The House provide that an amendment to the relatively high cost of living had caused Address-in-Reply can be moved, and his- the people to move out of that town. The tory shows that from time to time such a situation is, I think, the workers in Wit- move has been made by a member who tenoom are relatively highly paid, and it felt for some reason or other that he is perhaps the climatic conditions in and should bring to the notice of His Excellency around Wittenoom which cause them to a certain state of affairs. This is usually shift. It certainly could not have been done, because in the opinion of that mem- the imposition of the road maintenance ber moving the amendment there is just charge which has been in operation for a cause for his action; but I must say to period of fonur months. honourable members on this occasion I Let us consider the road transport ser- find it extremely difficult to understand vices to Wittenoom. Freight increases why Mr. Strickland thinks he has just were necessary because of the uneconomic cause in this particular case. rate at which the company concerned had Parliament gave the Bill to which he been operating for some years; and if the has just referred-and which is now an rates had been increased to keep them Act-passage through both Houses of Par- in line with costs generally, the freight liament last year, and this Act became rates reputed to be due to the road main- operative approximately four months ago. tenance charge would have been relatively Yet without any trial and without finding a lot lower than they are now. In fact, the out what has been happening as a result town had enjoyed unrealistically low rates of the charge that is imposed by this leg- for some time-I think members from the islation, the Government is being admon- north will be aware of this-and these ished by the honourable member by draw- were in no way related to the cost of ing to the attention of His Excellency the operations. Governor-these are the wvords of his Public tenders were called for this ser- amendment-"But we regret the Govern- vice, and there were no Increases in ment has not foreshadowed any move to freights from February, 1961, until 1966. abolish or substantially reduce the heavy During this period the Federal basic wage burden placed upon the cost of produc- increased by 19 Per cent, and the State tion," and so on. basic wage by 14 per cent., and conse- is it fair to expect that at this point of quently related costs must have increased. time, after four months of operation, the In replying to Mr. Strickland's remarks Government could be asked either to regarding the situation in Carnarvon. it abolish or substantially reduce this par- is important to give this example: The ticular charge? If this were the case, and effect of the charge on a 23-ton refrig- if we were able to do that at this point erated semitrailer with a tare weight of of time, then it could be said with some 17 tons carting perishable goods to Car- justification that the Bill passed by Parlia- narvon is that the operator pays slightly ment last year was hastily conceived and less than $2 per ton for the trip, and this should not have been placed on the Statute works out at one-tenth of a penny per book at all. But that is not the case by pound weight if the whole of the increase any manner of means, because as I make is passed on. [Tuesday, 9 August, 1966.)

The Hon. H. C. Strickland: What are The Hon. H. C. Strickland: I did not the comparative charges? say anything about that. The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH: I have some The H-on. A. F. GRIFFITH: Hut I amn notes on which I am basing my comments, saying something about it. If the hon- and if there are any points which I fail curable member had said something about to raise the honourable member can tell that he would not have been in a posit- me about them later on. I emphasise that ion to give the figure of 8,000 to 10,000 this is not quite the back-breaking impo- head as the reduction in the number. sition which we are led to believe has been Furthermore, the present indications are imposed on the outback. that the input of the Broome Meat Works I think it is fair to compare this one- will be virtually the same as it was for tenths of a penny per pound in- 1965. Whilst there is a considerable crease with the actual decrease in amount of road haulage undertaken by the cost of transporting beans and interstate road vehicles which have trav- other produce from Carnarvon to Perth. elled pickaback from the Eastern States This cost is at present less than it to Parkeston, and quoting the words of was in December last year. Prior to the the honourable member, those cattle are 14th February, 1966, the rate was equiva- being transported to the Northern Terri- lent to 1.04c per pound; the rate after tory, to Katherine, or "somewhere else", the 14th February, 1966, was 1.Olc per he must appreciate that the interstate pound, which is a reduction of .03c per movement of cattle by road train is subject pound. Whilst it is appreciated this is to payment of the road maintenance not a great reduction, I suggest it does charges whilst the vehicle is operating in emphasise the benefits which will accrue Western Australia. Regarding the inter- to outback districts when substantial state operators, they must contribute their amounts of road maintenance contributions share whilst they are operating in our have been collected, and have enabled the State. upgrading of roads, which will enable As Mr. Strickland also mentioned, the carting contractors to submit lower con- goods and the machinery that are re- tracts with a consequent reduction in quired for the iron ore projects have been freight, to be effected. transported by road north of Geraldton, I will draw the attention of the House and as a, consequence these vehicles were later on to this particular point and to liable for payment of the road mainten- the importance of having good roads, and ance charge. Thus they made their con- I shall re-endorse some of the remarks tribution towards their use of such roads. which were made by Mr. Strickland last Improvements in living conditions, year when he took part in the debate on whilst maintaining a reasonable cost level, the Bill' in this House. Let uis take the will cost ofcattle transport. The figures of be possible with the greater improve- costs, per head of cattle, given by one ments in roads, and these roads are, in operator for 1965 and 1966 are as follows:- turn, a. major factor in keeping down on the Fitzroy Crossing-Derby service, the operating costs and in keeping them to a cost in 1965 was 48s. or $4.80 per ton, minimum. Only today I was looking at and in 1986, $5.00, or an increase of 20c. some related figures concerning various On the Fitzroy Crossing-Broome service. types of roads--the road that is unsealed, the cost in 1965 was 65s. or $6.50, and in the road that is partly prepared, and the 1966. $7.60, or an increase of 90c. On the road which is fully bitumninised. We can Halls Creek-Broome service the cost in see that the highly improved road be- 1965 was 121s. 6d., or $12.15, and in 1966, tween Perth and Carnarvon keeps down $13.35, or an increase of $1.20. the level of the cost of transport to a very appreciable extent. In the course of his remarks Mr. Strick- This is what the that the kill through the Government is seeking to achieve by the land suggested collection of the road maintenance Wyndham Meat Works this year would charge, which drop by some 8,000 to 10,000 head. This Is was authorised by Parlia- ment when it passed the legislation last worth examination. In 1965 the Wynd- year. ham Meat Works Processed 23,523 head. whereas up to the 30th July, 1966, it had Mr. Strickland appeared to have some processed 19,243 head, and as the season doubt that the road maintenance contri- is not expected to close until the end of bution funds, levied ofl road hauliers In August a drop in the numbers, as sugges- remote areas, would be spent on roads in ted by the honourable member, does not these remote areas. If I recall rightly he seem probable. said "the road hauliers in that area may be contributing The Hon. H. C. Strickland: I did not to a. fund the moneys in say that. I said that there was a reduc- which are used to repair many city roads tion In the number of cattle sent to which are affected by wet weather. Were Wyndham from the Northern Territory, this to be done it would represent a com- charge. plete and absolute turnabout in the policy because of the extra on main roads-of which we are well The Hon. A. P. ORIFflTH: That does aware-and which has been carried out not add up, because in 1965 there were for many years past. It has been carried 23,523 head processed, and up to the 30th out not only by this Government, but also July, 1966, there were 19,243. by the Government of which the honour- [COUNCIL.] able member himself was a Minister. Such the embarrassing position in which the a step would also mean a complete change Premier of this State could be placed at in the policy of the spending of the the next Premiers' conference were it de- petrol tax Collections in country areas. cided to make no effort to obtain this I am sure the following figures will be fair share of the substantial funds which interesting to honourable members. Of the Commonwealth is willing to allocate the funds collected, about 60 per cent. on a pound for pound basis. I think we to 65 Per cent, of fuel tax and other road have an absolute responsibility to do this funds are paid by people from the metro- because, if we do not, this important con- politan area. But in the last two years tribution by the commonwealth will be approximately 90 per cent, of the funds lost. The result would be that we would not have gone to country areas. Last year, 28 have as much money to spend on roads as per cent. went to the north-west and I we will have by applying this charge. suggest good results have been achieved in While the provisions in this Act will that area as a result of this expenditure. enable us to catch up with interstate Honourable members may be interested hauliers, this was not the fundamental to knowv that with respect to the funds reason for the introduction of the road which will become available through the maintenance charge. In a general survey Road Maintenance (Contribution) Act, the of the finances available for road purposes. Main Roads Department has programmed the Government took account of all sources to spend a total of about $1,850,000 during for raising the required money and finally the financial year. It could well be that decided that the road maintenance charge the amount available will be considerably was the best method to obtain the nec- higher. Nevertheless, the point I wish to essary funds. This was because the vehicles emphasise is that of this figure of $1,850,- which are damaging the roads should be 000, no more than 1.85 per cent. has been the means by which we meet the cost of programmed for expenditure in an area repairing them, and building new roads. within a 20-mile radius of the G.P.O., Admittedly, we can expect this increased cost to be passed on-this is a natural Perth. I repeat: 1.85 per cent. Therefore, corollary. However, the figure represents the fears expressed by Mr. Strickland are only a minute fraction of road transport surely without any foundation at all; at operational charges. Hauliers would sub- least, beyond the extent of 1.85 per cent! sequently be hard Pushed to substantiate As I indicated on the 4th August, when any excessively high increase in contract the honourable member asked me a ques- prices. tion, no less than $239,000 of road mainten- I think I should mention that the Com- ance funds have been programmed for monwealth Grants Commission had pointed expenditure in the Kimberley district alone out that Western Australia, as a claimant this financial year. On the same occasion State, was not imposing the road main- I informed Mr. Strickland that the Main tenance charge, while both New South Roads Department had allocated an addit- Wales and Victoria were. We know only ional $1,800,000 for expenditure in the too well, with the financial arrangement Kimberley district under the Common- that exists between the Commonwealth wealth Aid Roads Act, 1964. This amount and the States, that once the standard is in addition to $1,500,000 allocated for States impose a charge we have one of expenditure in the Kimberley district two alternatives to follow. We can in- under the Commonwealth beef road grant. crease the basis of whatever the charge is The honourable member can therefore in Western Australia and get the benefit have little doubt as to the huge main road which the Grants Commission gives to us expenditure contemplated throughout the as a result of the increase. The alterna- Kimberley district at the present time. tive is to not do it and be penalised as I rightly believe that I have answered a result. the question raised by the honourable I have said in this House on many oc- member prior to his final and concluding casions, when replying to supply Bills and remarks when he moved this amendment; speeches on the Address-in-Reply in an but before resuming my seat I want to take endeavour to give information to honour- the opportunity to reiterate some of the able members who have complained about important reasons why the Road Main- why something was not done here and tenance (Contribution) Act was intro- something was not done there-I have to duced in this State. answer why a school has not been built, We all know that Western Australia and why a hospital has not been built- receives very favourable consideration from that the basis of it is that there is not the Commonwealth in regard to road funds money available to the Government to pro- -very favourable consideration indeed. vide services that the State needs, and to Other States are envious of the treatment fulfil the requirements that honourable we receive and, in fact, it would be safe to members of this House, and another House. say that those other States desire to have demand for the people they represent from it altered. We endleavour to retain the ex- time to time. I repeat: We have a respon- isting system because we would have more sibility to do what we are doing, and any problems than the other States in the Government that is in office in this State, remote areas if it were altered. either at the present time or in the future, Honourable members can well imagine wvill find itself faced with these problems. ETuesay, 9 August, 1956.115 163

I do not think it is necessary, at this As I have already mentioned, it is, not stage, to enter into further discussion on easy in the initial stages to assess how the comparison of similar legislation in much will be raised. We have to take into other States. We spent a long time on that account seasonal and other conditions, and last year. We debated this Bill at consider- these could alter the amount quite con- able length, but I would again remind siderably; that is, the amount that is honourable members that in Western Aus- eventually raised from the charge. There- tralia we are imposing this charge on fore, no accurate indication can be given vehicles of eight tons and over, whereas of the amount it is expected to receive in Victoria and New South Wales the basis this financial year. is t our tons. I think this is a far-reaching Bearing in mind the remarks of The difference In our favour. Hon. Mr. Strickland last year. when he The Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: I do not was speaking to the road maintenance think the legislation would have gone Bill, we have a very good example and through if the Country Party demand had some very good evidence produced by him not been agreed to. to show what an improved road can do. Mr. Scrickland showed what a good road The Hon. A. F, GRIFFITH: Has the could mean to people who depended on honourable member been going to that that road for the transport of their sup- party's meetings? It would probably do plies. On the 3rd November last, he had no harmi if he did attend some meetings. this to say- The Hon. F. Rt. H. Lavery: If the Min- Carnarvon, because of the splendid ister went to some of ours he would learn road, enjoyed a remarkable reduction somkething. in the cost of foodstuffs over the past The Hon. A. F. GRIFFITH: Perhaps all seven or eight years. That Is a re- of us could learn something. Getting back markable reduction as against what to the subject, I have made some inquiries costs were. I am not saying the costs regarding administration costs. This was are not higher, but the costs today a subject which was strongly debated in in proportion to the basic wage and this House last year. I believe there have the value of money are certainly much been some very uninformed opinions on lower. In fact, food prices in Carnar- this particular matter, and I would like von are lower than at Geraldion, and to take the opportunity to let members that is because of the excellent road know what the Position is. It appears that and transport service which is avail- the administrative costs in connection with able. the road maintenance Act are not going And then the honour able member went on to be 15 per cent., or 10 per cent., or 741 to say- pe-r cent. If 1 remember correctly 71 per However, the people are going to cent. was the figure estimated last year. lose that advantagc. it appears that the handling costs will be I shall now tell members what this ad- in the vicinity of five per cent. of the vantage will cost in a monetary sense: collections. Less than one-tenth of a penny in the This figure is confidently predicted and Pound. That will be the extent of the addi- it appears likely that the administrative tional cost in order to provide the money charges will not exceed that small per- for the type of road which will, in the centage. The prediction is that our charges long run, bring down the total cost of road 'will be the least of any State in Australia. transport in the north. That is what the I amn sure all honourable members will join honiourable member himself demonstrated with me in hoping that this will prove to to us last year. be the case. Apparently that is one of the reasons It is not possible to indicate to members why Mr. Strickland has moved the amend- the actual figures that will accrue as a ment to the Address-in-Reply and I sub- result of the collection charge. The Act mit that in my preceding remarks I have was put into operation on the 1st April, been able to provide facts which in them- as I said in my opening remarks-approxi- selves should remove doubts which exist in mately six months ago-and the flow of the honourable member's mind, and which money from it commenced early in May, may exist, perhaps, in the minds of some 1966. That means it is four months since other members. I do not think the dire the money started to come in;, May. June, consequences which Mr. Strickland pre- July, and August. dicts are likely to eventuate; if they did Honourable members can be assured that they would rebound on to the beads of with respect to road hauliers who have not the road hauliers themselves and would yet made payment-and there are some- result in a loss of custom. it is intended to take whatever steps are The Government has set the way for the necessary against them. This includes collection of the charge and, as all mem- interstate hauliers in respect of whom bers know, has indicated where the we are receiving assistance from the money will be spent. I believe this move authorities in the Eastern States, who, of by the honourable member to amend the course, are implementing similar legisla- Address-in-Reply-which is in conformity tion. The fundamental, in laying a charge, with what was done in anot'ner place-is is to determine the ownership of the merely to bring to notice a fate of affairs vehicle involved. whinch does not in fact exist. LCOUNCILJ

I shall conclude on the same theme as the operators ink the north have to contend I started: It seems remarkably strange to with. Therefore, any effort made by a me that the Government is being taken to Government, or Parliament, to better the task, and this House is being asked to roads in the northern part of the State amend the motion which is to go to His will eventually prove beneficial to that Excellency, the Governor, in regard to an area. Act which, from the point of view of col- While we were on the tour I met many lections made under it, has been in opera- People and talked to them, the same as tion for only four months. I oppose the I suppose other members did, and while amendment, wve were at Kununurra I spoke to one of the local storekeepers who had bought a THE HON. F. R. H. LAVERY (South new truck a few days prior to our arrival Metropolitan) (5.32 p.m.]: I have no hesi- -I was on the second section of the trip. tation in saying I rise to support the This man told me he had bought the truck amendment. for only one reason-he had to pay £3,220 The Hon. A. F. Griffith: That is not a for it and he said that within 10 months, surprise. through carting his own goods, and even The Hon. F. RL. ff. LAVERY: It could paying the tax levied by the department be said that that was obvious because of the under the Act, he would be able to pay Party I support. However, that is not for the truck because he would not have true. While I appreciate the Minister's to pay the exorbitant prices charged by reply to the remarks Mr. Strickland made contractors who normally cart goods to on Thursday last, when he moved the those areas. The exorbitant charges are amendment, and realise that they must brought about because of the tax being give the Minister a certain amount of levied under the new Act. satisfaction in that he was able to pro- The Hon. C. E. Griffiths: That doesn't duce so much documentary evidence to make sense. this House, I would point out that what the minister said a few moments before The Hon. F. R. H. LAVERY: It is all concluding his speech was not quite cor- very well for Mr. Cive Griffiths to sit rect. The Minister said that this tax, there and laugh about this. He, too, went which was imposed by an Act of Parlia- up there and he cannot deny what I am ment passed last year, has in fact been saying. of benefit to the people in the area con- The Hon. C. E. Griffiths: But that- cerned: or it has provided as much as could be expected in view of the short The PRESIDENT: Order! time the Act has been in operation. The Hon. P. R. H. LAVERLY: The tax I was one of those members who en- is levied on any trailer and truck, or any joyed to the full-and I appreciated the vehicle over eight tons. Let us take the thought behind It-he tour of the north- case of a man who lives in Cotteslee and west recently undertaken by members of who wants to have his truck serviced at Parliament. I enjoyed it particularly be- Sydney Atkinson Motors Ltd. in Perth. cause I have been connected with trans- He has to pay the tax for the journey port since early January, 1920. and have fromn Cottesloe to Perth, even though his been a, financial member of the Transport vehicle is empty. I have never denied Workers' Union since that date. Also, as what I said last year; in fact, I shall re- a lad of 15, I drove camel teams over Mit. peat it: The Country Party members were Jackson and through those northern areas. quite happy to assist in the imposition of This was at about the time the first world this tax on transport operators when the war commenced, and therefore I know a limit was lifted to eight tons. I am sure little about the outback and of the dis- those same members would not have sup- abilities suffered by the people living ported the proposal had it applied to there. It is a marvel to me how the people trucks of four tons, as is the case in the who live, and who operate various indus- Eastern States. tries in the outback went there in the first place, because they are so far away The Hon. T. 0. Perry: In South Austra- from the centre of things and particularly lia it is eight tons. the facilities that are available in the met- The Hon. F. R, H. LAVERY: There is ropolitan area. also the question of the beef carriers who I am one who believes that the people are carting beef to Broome. In comnpany of the outback-I use that Australian with other members I went into the local term-deserve everything that can be hotel at Broome while we were on the given to them by any Government, an Act trip and I did the right thing by shouting of Parliament, or the grace of God. When for a group of chaps. One of them said Mr. Strickland moved his amendment the to me, "I do not know whether I should other evening I recalled our plane trip to have a. drink with you." When I asked the north-west and the vast mileages that him, "Why?" he said, "You are one of we covered. While we were flying we saw those fellows who imposed this terrific tax trucks travelling along some of the high- on the people in the north who are bring- ways. The dust was streaming ouit for the beef into the Broome Meat W~orks." miles behind every vehicle and it r nk~s ing- one realise what heavy maintenance costs The Hon. A. r. Griffith: I bet you quickly are involved because of the type of roads enlightened him about that. (Tuesday, 9 August, 1960.] 165

The Hon. F. R. H. LAVERY: I told him figures I have just quoted were taken from very smartly that it was an Act of Parlia- page '7 of the overall review of transport ment, and whether we were in the minority made by Mr. Wayne, and I would say that or the majority we had to accept the con- they are as near correct as one could pos- demnation which these people wanted to sibly get them. The Minister also said heap on our shoulders. that there has been no increase in costs The Hon. W. P'. Willesee: That surprises Since this tax was first levied. However, you, doesn't it? the one-man operator, and the fellow who The Hon. A. P. Griffith: It does. has a couple of vehicles and employs an- other driver, are now out of business. They The Hon. F. R. H. LAVERY: I know that have had to go out of business. huge sums of money, which will be col- There is a firm in Perth which handles lected by way of this tax, will be used for secondhand semitrailers and it usually our roads. I have no doubt about that, sells these trailers from E1,500 to £2,500. and I also have no doubt, as Mr. Strick- Four days ago there were 41 trailers in land said, that the money will be used for this Airm's yards and It was not possible roads in the South-West Land Division of to get a price of £600 for a trailer. It is the State just as it will be used for roads not possible to sell them because the in the north-west. smaller man is going out of business. I should now like to quote some figures I would not like members to think that which will probably be of interest to mem- I am fickle about this matter,, because I1 bers. Tn 1950 the number of licenses for carefully noted quite a numbier of the the carriage of goods, issued by the Trans- things the Minister said in reply to the port Board, totalled 933. In 1960 that case put forward by Mr. Strickland. The figure had risen to 2,071 and in 1965 it Minister said there was no just cause for had increased still further to 4,313. So the amendment: there was no foundation over a period of 15 years the figure had for it; that both Houses produced the risen by 360 per cent. amendment at the same time. I think The H-on. V. J. Ferry: They show the members will agree that it Is not unusual progress of the State. when a motion of this sort Is to be moved The Hon. P. R. H. LAVERY: Because of for it to be moved in both Houses at the the new industries being established in the same time. north of this State I would say that a The Hon. A. F. Griffith: I think you are third of the number I have quoted would mistaken when you state that I said there relate to vehicles being used in those areas. was no increase in costs. I realise that the Government is trying The Hon. F. R. H. LAVERY: As I said, to impose a tax on the interstate hauliers, I have noted quite a number of the Min- and there is no doubt that they, have made ister's remarks. For instance, the Minister no contribution towards the upkeep of'our said that the cost per beast had risen from roads. The only contributions they have 48s. to 50s., from 65s. to 76s., and from made have been to the Commonwealth 121s. 6d. to 133s. Gd-that is. in the three Railways, which system has done very well districts to which he referred. from its operation of the pickabaek The Hon. A. F. Griffith: In that case, scheme. It is obvious from the figures I how can you reconcile that with the fact have quoted, which show an increase in that I was supposed to have said there was the number of permits issued of 360 per no increase in costs? cent. over a 15-year Period, that Western Australia requires a solid road transport The Hon. F. R. H. LAVERY: The Min- system- ister did say so. The Hon. A. F. Griffith: How many of The Hon. A. F. Griffith: I did not. those vehicles were over eight tons? The Hon. P. R. H. LAVERY: The Min- The Hon. P. R. H. LAVERY: I would ister quoted the figure of 23,523 beasts not know that. I could not answer that. handled in 1965 at the Wyndham Meat The Hon. A. F. Griffith: It is not unim- Works, and said that 19,243 beasts had gone through the works up to some time portant though, is it? In July this year. The H-on. P. R. H. LAVERY: The Minis- It has never been my policy to state in ter is asking a question in regard to the this House what a Minister or a member tonnage of vehicles and mileage and I do happens to mention to me outside the not have the figures. However, the ton House,' and I do not propose to do so now. mileage hauled under road permits and I will say, however, that when the matter temporary licenses issued by the Transport of the lowver kill at Wyndhamn was men- Board has increased from 10,028,663 in tioned we were told that but for the new 1950, to 22,625,000 in 1965, or an increase beef roads those cattle handled at the of 125 per cent. In the nine months for Katherine works would normally have gone 1966 the figure has risen still further to to the Kimberleys. When I asked why this 41,458,221. That is the number of permits was so I was told it was due to the added issued for the nine months of this year. cost imposed on the hauliers by this tax, The Minister did say that he was not able and that because of this they were having to assess what this tax will return. The to take cattle the other way instead of figure will be a tremendous one. The bringing them to Wyndhamr. Whether this 166 168[COUNCIL.]I is correct or not, I do not know. But I am THE BON. R. H, C. STUBBS (South- in 3 position to state that the costs imposed East) [5.52 p.m.]: My remarks will be in the north should not have been imposed brief. I think I would be remiss in my at all. Many concessions are made north duty if I did not say something about this of the 26th parallel. All sorts of conces- matter, because the people in my area de- sions are granted to civil servants, and pend very heavily upon road transport; it thsre are subsidies on fresh vegetables, and is most important to the people in the so on". Esperance district, to the goidmining in- Sthere is any section of this State to dustry, and to those on the Eyre Highway. which some consideration should be given There are no railways in that area, so it should be the long-distance hauliers in road transport the north-west. I am not referring to is an important factor. those people who are carting to Albany According to the booklet issued by the and to Bunbury, because they are compet- Chamber of Mines, the cost of the haul- ing with the railways. I am speaking of age and cartage of ore in relation to the the people In the north who have no goldmining industry has risen by $33,000 alteirnative but to use road transport. for that portion of the year for which The amendment moved by Mr. Strick- the tax has been in operation. Apart from land should receive our full support, and this there would be an added impost of we should let the Governor know that the $13,000 for the eartage of mining timber. people who are having to meet the extra These are costs that cannot be passed on; charges because of this tax are not at all they must be borne by the industry, which happy about it. it is all very well for the is battling all the time. Minister to say that the administrative In the Esperance district the farmers costs could be as low as five Per cent. I and graziers depend wholly and solely woud be the first to congratulate the Gov- on road transport, with the exception of ernmient department that was able to keep those few who are served by the Cool- its costs down as low as that. But what gardie-Esperance line. Those farming in- about the administrative costs of the pri- terests within a radius of 150 miles of vate owners: the private companies? the town of Esperance are most irate at I ::now of one major carrier in this State the situation that has arisen. Some of the having had to employ an extra staff of 15 letters I have received and the verbal des- clerks whose only work was to keep these criptions given to me as to what they think records for the Transport Board. It might of the position do not bear repeating. As he said that, as a Labor man, I ought to I have said, they are all most irate about be glad that this is giving people work. the added cost. Some of the cartage con- The point is, however, that the company tractors operating on the Eyre Highway in question wvill not carry the burden it- may have one or two trucks, and they are self; it will pass the added cost on to the not in the position to pass these costs on. people in the north, I have no hesitation These people are charged for every mile in saying that the company to which I that is registered on the speedometer, refer is Bell Bros. The other large com- whether they are carting on bush tracks panies are also in the same boat. or on no tracks at all. There should be The Minister mentioned the good road to some reduction of tax for the people in Carnarvon; but each and every one of us these areas. knows that the maintenance costs of heavy duty vehicles at any time are very high. I would like to quote one instance of We also know that good roads have to be added costs. On Sunday I was approached paid for. and that with good roads main- by a man w~ho operates on the Eyre High- teng-nce costs should come down. But how way. He told me that he had damaged oftrn do these costs come down? How two differentials in 30 days while h3 was often is the cost of transporting goods re- carting on bush tracks, and it had cost duced? Very rarely. him about £800. The Hon. A. F. Griffith: According to The Hon. P. D. Willmott: Is that the Mr. Strickland the cost of living at Car- only argument you can put up? narvon is less than that at Geraldton. The Hon. R. H. C. STUTBBS: That was The Hon. F. R. H. LAVERY: I have the cost involved three very distinct impressions of my trip in securing two differen- up -north. I thought the trip was organ- tials and installing them. This man must ised very well indeed, and that it must pay the road maintenance tax; he cannot have proved of tremendous benefit to the pass it on. The Main Roads Department State,; it would not matter whether it cost is not giving him any mnore money for the Governmenit twice the amount it did. his truck. I think it is grossly unfair that The whole trip was admirably thought out. these people should have to pay for the and admirably executed. I am sure all entire mileage recorded on their speedo- mer-bers must have benefited tremendous- meters. I understood that these payments ly feom the trip up north. I darpsay it were only to be made in resp -ct of roads could be asked why I, as a metropoli- controlled by the sbhe councils. But I am tan member, should be shouting so loudly informed that the hauliers have been about transport costs up north. I do so charged for mileage done on bush tracks becauise I believe my job in this House is and on tracks to gravel pits, and so on. I to keaep transport costs down so that the am most disappointed that no attempt people in all parts of the State will benefit. has been made to reduce this rzad main- [Tuesday, 9 August, 1966.] 1676 tenance tax as it relates to people who are The Hon. W. F. WILLE SEE: As we all wholly and solely dependent on heavy do in cases like this. Do we stand here haulage. and say, "We have collected $391,000 over the period of two months but we will take THE HON. W. F. WILLESEE (North- no notice of it"? If the boot were on the East Metropolitan-Leader of the Opposi- other foot I could see the Minister missing tion) [5.56 p.m.]: I think this amend- the opportunity!I ment moved by Mr. Strickland is quite The Hon. A. F. Griffith: Do not change justified, because there is no doubt that the subject. there is a general unrest throughout the The Hon. W. F. WILLESEE: I will stick State as a result of the heavy impact this to the subject and the fact that the Gov- tax is making in the pastoral and the ernment has under- estimated the return farming regions where, I think it can be from this tax and at the end of the year argued with legitimate force, the people will have collected more than was budgeted are paying a dual tax. They pay a tax for. on goods imported to their properties, and also on the produce they export. The Hon. A. F. Griffith: We will have more money to spend on more roads. In the case of a town that is not served by a railway, or by a boat service the The Hon. W. F. WULLESEE: That is people of such township are called upon not the purpose of the tax. In answer to to meet the added burden of this tax. As a question on matching money, a set figure explained by the Minister in the last session was given over a period of four years. of Parliament, the purpose of the Road The Hon. A. F. Griffith: I would rather Maintenance (Contributions) Act was to tell you at the end of 12 months what raise a specific sum of money for the the figure is rather than guess as you are repair and maintenance of roads. I think doing. the amount quoted then was £530,000. In giving an analysis of costs with regard to The PRESIDENT: Order! the impact of this tax on a truck carting The Hon. W. F. WILLESEE: I am quot- to Carnarvon, the Minister made the ing from a reply given to a question asked amount out to be so small as to be almost in another place. This reply was probably inconsequential. Prepared by the department concerned, so In reply to a question asked in another I am not guessing. place as to the tax collected for this fund The Hon. A. F. Griffith: You are guess- to the 30th June. we were told that it Ing that the last 10 months will be as amounted to $391,000. We must bear in good as the first two months. mind, as. the Minister said, that the tax The Hon. W. F. WILLESEE: It would has been in operation for May, June, July. be a good thing if the Minister would and part of August only. The amount re- keep quiet so that I can make my speech. quired for the year. based on the tax operating over four years is $1,060,000. The PRESIDENT: Order! On this basis we are budgeting for a. sur- The Hon. W. F. WILLESEE: If it is plus of $1,200,000 odd. But the amount proved that this tax is too high, then collected in two months was £391,000, and I feel it is the bounden duty of the Govern- if we multiply that by six we get a figure ment to reduce it. It is not a well- of $2,346,000. accepted tax, even though we might be The Hon. A. F_ Griffith: That is your led to believe otherwise. I have an article estimation for 12 months? here which appeared in The West Aus- tralian of the 7th July under the heading The Hon. W. F. WILLESEE: If for May "Farmers Claim Road Levy An Imposi- and June-which is one-sixth of the year tion." It reads as follows:- was $391,000, it -the amount collected Farmers and traders south of Bus- means that if we multiply that amount by selton claim that the new Road Tax six the sum collected for the year will Maintenance Act will be an imposi- be $2,346,000. At any rate. in round figures, tion in districts which depend entirely there would be a surplus of $1,000,000. So on road transport for the carriage of it would appear to me that the tax-this is goods and produce. the point I am endeavouring to get at-in the first instance is too fierce. It is an over- They say that the tax has already calculation of the amount of money that forced most road transporters serving will come in if the premise is right that districts south of the railhead at Bus- the influx will continue at the same rate selton to raise their freight rates. as over the two months' period. It goes on to say- The Ron. A. F. Griffith: Don't you think He said the Government did not it would be fairer to let six or nine months consult the union, which represents go by? nearly 10,000 primary producers when it prepared the act. The Hon. W. F. WfL.LESEE: I am merely There would be many other districts, quoting the only figure we have. including those south of Busselton that The H-on. A. F. Griffith: You are taking would be affected by freight rate in- the opportunity to support the motion. creases. 168 168COUNCIL.]

The union would press for an Primary producers," the spokesman amendment of the Bill in the next said. session of parliament. Another point raised was the fact Margaret River Chamber of Com- that the association had been given merce secretary A. Burking said the no definite indication as to where in new tax was unrealistic. the State the money collected from Carriers could not avoid paying the the tax would be spent, tax by using smaller vehicles, because It was decided that all association a load of less than eight tons was not members should be advised to con- a Payable proposition on the long trip tact their local M.P.s to gain their sup- from the Busselton railhead. Port and thought would be given to I have merely quoted extracts. However, the possibility of making an approach I have shown that in an area containing to the Premier to express association 10,000 interested parties, this tax is being dissatisfaction and attempt to gain a very badly received. An article appeared solution. in The Northern Times of the 7th April under the heading "Pastoralists Consider In the face of that, it cannot be claimed Road Maintenance Tax Unfair." It reads there is no extreme dissatisfaction from as follows:- an important section of industry in the Pastoralists & Graziers Association State, I believe the fault lies in the gim- of Western Australia severely criticised mick of matching money. the road maintenance tax at its The Hon. L. A. Ljogan: It is no gimmick monthly executive committee last at all. week. The Hon. WV.F. WILLESEE: I think it An association spokesman said the is. The Commonwealth should tax People executive believed the tax was unfair once and not twice. The Commonwealth to a minority group living in the Government should tax the people of State's primary producing areas. Western Australia as it does now and place Members from Wyndham to Esperance the money in a central fund from which had complained to the association it can be reallocated to the States. It about the tax, he said. is wrong for the Commonwealth to say "It hits the man on the land from to the Government, "Here is so much both sides. Not only will he be forced money for roads, but we think you need to pay the tax every time he takes more than that. Therefore we will give his truck anywhere-even if he brings you half and you can tax the people to it from Derby to Perth simply for an get the other half." overhaul-he will also have the extra That is the principle which is doing the charges passed on to him by the haul- damage. It reminds me of the cartoon age firms who bring in his provisions showing a little donkey with a big fellow and take out his livestock." sitting on his back with a carrot dangled The spokesman pointed out that ex- in front of the donkey's nose. The Com- emptions from road maintenance were monwealth Government is astride the granted to certain primary producers donkey, which represents the Western in both N.S.W. and Victoria. In Australian taxpayers, and the carrot Northern Territory there was no tax is the matching money. There can at all. be only one end to all of this: People will "In view of the exemptions in other be taxed out of existence if the Govern- States, the association feels the Gov- ment continues to meet the Common- ernment should give some considera- wealth with matching money. It is not the tion to doing the same in W.A. for answer to the problem, which should be hauliers of certain Produce-livestock dealt with in the first instance from taxa- in particular--especially in areas tion at the source. The principle of this where they are not in competition with matching money is wrong and it is doing the Railways." the State a great deal of harm, as is The way the Act was brought in evidenced to us all. was also criticised by the association. Recently Mr. Strickland asked for a It believed the Act was rushed through breakup of how this money would be Parliament without any thought given applied and spent; and there is more than to the people it would affect most or a probability that the money collected will to them having the chance to state be subtracted from the usual amount made the effect it would have on what the available to the north-west area from the association believes is an already Commonwealth aid roads rant, on the overburdened industry. figures given to me at question time last The Hon. A. P. Griffith: You do not week, less money will be spent in the seriously think it was rushed through, do north-west this year under the Common- you? wealth Aid Roads Act than was scent in The Hon. W. F. WILLESEE: Continu- the previous year. So it is reasonable to ing- assume that this tax wvill not mean addi- '.The association feels that by en- tional expenditure on roads; it is merely forcing the Act the Government is to supplement and is not in accordance giving more thought to matching the with the principle for which it was intro- Grants Commission quota than to its duced. [Tuesday, 9 August. 1966.] 1096

I support the amendment as I believe it Many people have said that this heavy is justified. ThS tax is one which should haulage tax will increase the freight be abolished. If the Government con- charge to anything up to 6d. a ton mile. siders it Is necessary, then the tax should If this occurs, it will mean that someone be implemented in some other way. How- is making a huge profit. The tax Should ever, I am of the opinion that it should not necessitate an increase of anything be abolished completely because the prin- above 5/l8ths of a cent per ton mile. ciple upon which it is based is wrong. The Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: What would Sitting suspended from 6.12 to 7.30 pi.m. be the tax on a load of 20 tons, from here to King Bay? It would be £21 extra. THE HON. J. HEITMAN (Upper West) The Hon. J. HEITMANQ: I could not [7.32 p.m.): In speaking to this amend- answer that right off the hook, but I ment the Minister submitted a very good have a book here which the honourable reply and explained the position fairly member could study. thoroughly. It is well known today that all the railways throughout the State repair The Hon. F. R. H, Lavery: I can tell you. their own tracks and with this legislation, It would be £21 extra. through the heavy haulage contributions The Hon. J. HEITMAN: It has a ready the heavy hauliers will be doing exactly reckoner for every ton carried for any the same as the railways have been doing distance throughout the State or Common- over the years. wealth. The Position is that If we want better The Hion. F. R. H. Lavery: I have told roads in the outback or country areas, You it would be £21 extra. someone has to pay for them. I cannot think of any better system than to make The PRESIDENT: Order! those who use the roads make some con- The Hon. J. HEITMAN: I have spoken tribution to them. Many have spoken on to the managing director of one of the this legislation from time to time and we biggest heavy haulage companies in had a very good discussion on It last Queensland-and a similar tax has been year. Although no-one likes the taxes in force in Queensland for several years which have been levied on the country and that State has had a chance to people over the past 12 months, this is Prove what a help it is to the State as one which really pays for itself and gives a whole in the maintenance of its roads. some return for the money collected, more The director's belief was that it was a so than have the other taxes which have very good tax and that the State could not been placed on the community. do without it. I heartily agree with him. It is well known that the tarred road to We know that every shire in the country Carnarvon has kept the heavy haulage is battling to keep, AS roads in good repair prices down to a minimum. As a matter of and to establish new ones, and this contri- fact, those prices have not increased over bution will go a long way towards that many years. Once a good road is estab- end. With a greater number of better lished more competition is created, and roads, and more tarred roads, the freight more competition keeps prices down. This charges on country road haulage will be has been true to such an extent that the a lot lower than they are today. I amn cost of carting from Geraldton to Carnar- against the amendment. von is only half what it was some 20 years ago when the road was in a very bad TUE HON. E. C. HOUSE (South) [7.38 condition. p.m.): This amendment deals with the I feel sure the amount of money col- State generally but the arguments lected by way of this tax, and the conse- which have been submitted have dealt quent matching money on a pound for mainly with the northern areas. I do not pound basis, will make a great deal of dif- Profess to know a great deal about trans- ference to the roads in all ccuntry areas Port in the north, but I do represent an over the next year or so. The tax has been area in the south which is to a great in force so far for only three or tour degree dependent on road transport. This months and, as far as I know, none of the dependence has increased recently with money collected has so far been used for the opening up of new land. The roads road making. I think that anyone who has have been pushed further anid further doubts at this stage should consider what east with consequent increased production will happen in 12 months' time when the and the necessity for heavy haulage trans- Main Roads Department has had a chance Port which, in turn, necessitates better to allocate the money for the various roads. It is about this southern area I country roads. The marked improvement can speak. on those roads will then be evident In the various centres I have visited, it is possible that more money than was much criticism has been levelled at this anticipated will be collected. To my way tax, but I believe this has been as a result of thinking this is excellent. It points to of a lack of knowledge as to what the tax the fact that the Government did not can do for those concerned. After the realise just how much heavy haulage there Position has been explained, the people was in the State. That would be one rea- concerned are quite prepared to accept the son why the assessment of the amount to fact that there does not seem to be any be collected was under-estimated. wvay by which it can be avoided. 170 170[COUNCIL.]

If we examine the benefits we derive from 300 tons, an extra $513.30 wvas involved if Victoria and New South Wales under the the railways were utilised instead of road roads aid agreement, once again it is fairly transport, and tis is despite the addition obvious we have no option whatever but of the road maintenance tax. The cost per to fall into line with the other States. We bushel of wheat per 100 miles is less than are the last State to introduce this tax. lc, and the cost per ton of superphosphate The one before us was South Australia, is roughly 33c per 100 miles. in 1963, which was three years ago. It was The wheatgrowvers, of course, will have introduced as far back as 1955 in, I think, this recosted into the cost of production Victoria. So we have escaped, for Quite when the next formula is drawn up. In a considerable time, what is commonly so far as wheatgrowers are concerned, a called a burden on primary producers. lot of this will be swallowed up by the One of the statements made in the extra cost of production because of the Chamber today was that we pay this tax road maintenance tax. These figures- twice. As the money has to be matched, especially on the superphosphate and, in it has been stated that it is a double tax. many cases, on the wheat-refer only to the This is not so as would be realised if the transport miles and do not include the facts were studied. We pay seven per cent. heavy costs of having to go to the sidings in order to cart superphosphate back to of the petrol tax into the main fund and te shed, or the double handling there. yet receive 17 per cent, back; so we are I think the main point to be realised virtually receiving more than double the is that this road maintenance tax is prob- amount of money we actually contribute ably the best insurance that any primary in the first instance. Producer can have; insurance through the Another statement made was that it was knowledge that this road maintenance tax not right that the tax should be levied on will keep these roads at a standard and trucks which were travelling empty. It that this should, at least, stabilise the must be realised, once again, that in the costs. Last night in another place I think first instance the truck is rated on only the Minister quoted the transport costs for 40 per cent. of the total capacity of the South Africa as being exactly double on gross load which, therefore, allows for the gravel as compared with using bitumen truck to travel empty for nothing. roads. This ties in with the Carnarvon Mention was also made of the fact that figures and the general tenders which are the tax was based on eight tons and received right throughout the State on the not on four tons, as is the case in every "various costs versus the road'. other State except South Australia. This If we take a sensible attitude on this seems reasonable, especially as it must be tax, I think we will agree that it is a remembered that as each year goes by until one which, in some ways, has a lot of ad- the end of the present agreement more and vantages, and it is one of the very few more money will be needed. It is just as taxes put on the community that is not well, therefore, that the amount has been swallowed up in Consolidated Revenue, be- in excess of the estimate, otherwise we cause the whole of the money goes back could possibly have had to find some other into the zones from where it is derived, means of matching what was required. and all administrative costs must be taken One of the important points we must out of Consolidated Revenue. Therefore, remember in assessing road transport is if the facts are right-and I do not have that in the southern area, anyway, it is any reason to doubt them because I be- far cheaper than rail transport, in spite of lieve the High Court is fairly strict on this the road maintenance tax. I am often told matter-we can look forward to a great by people that they have to rely on road benefit being derived for our roads from transport because no railway line serves the taxation itself. their area, and that therefore they should The fact that we are collecting more not have to bear this imposition. However, through this tax is probably due to the facts are available which prove quite con- great increases in the amount of road clusively that road transport handles not transport. This is a trend which will con- only all the produce more efficiently but, tinue, and which will increase more and also more, as the years go by, especially with in spite of the road maintenance tax, the opening up of and the great produc- handles it much cheaper. tion on this conditional purchase land. About a month ago a person approached Why the road maintenance tax has re- me with some figures which supported his ceived the spotlight-and there Is no ques- desire to use road transport instead of the tion that it has-from all sections of the railways. There were 300 tons of super Primary producers as being the one charge involved and if taken in 10-ton lots the which has been so crippling to their cost saving by using road instead of rail trans- factor is hard to understand. I say it is port was $3.12 per 10-ton lot. in addition, hard to understand because there have the distance from the siding to the farm been many and various other rises in tyres. was five to seven miles, depending on the tubes, petrol, wages, and so on. The road part of the farm to which it had to be maintenance tax is probably the only one carted. This involved an extra $14 on the of all of these taxes from which primary 10-ton lots, making a total of an extra $17 Producers are going to receive any benefit. involved if the superphosphate were carted So, as I have said. I find it hard to under- by rail instead of road. For the total of stand why this tax should be spotlighted. (Tuesday, 9 August. 1966.] 1717

I think it was an American who was Noes-il7. Hon. N. E. Baxter Han. L. A. Logan quoted in the paper last week as having Hon. 0. E. D. Brand Hon. Gi. 0. MacKinnon said that we had some of the worst roads Hon. V. J. Ferry Hon. N. McNeill in the world. Whet-her or not this is a Hon. A. F. Griffith Hon. T. 0. Ferry Han. C. E. Griffiths Hon. H. B. Robinson fact I would not know, but it Is certain Hian. . Rltnan Hon. S. T5. J. 'flioxpson that, if the Government is going to keep Hon. J. oi. Hislop Hon. J. M. Thomson transport costs to the ports at a level where Hon. E. C. House Hon. F. D. Willmatt the primary producer can cope Hon. A. R. Jones (Teller.) with them, Pairs only a good road will bring this about. Ayes Noes Hon. P. j. S. Wise Hon. 0. R. Abbey THE HON. V. J. FERRY (South-West) Hoi-. J. J. GiarrIgan Hon. H. K. Watson 17.50] p.mi.: I rise to oppose the amend- Amend~ment thus negatived. mnent. Very briefly. I lust wish to reply to Debate (on motion) Resumed a comment which was made during the course of the debate concerning roads THE 110N. G. E. D. BRAND (Lower which, in some instances, are built and North) [7.57 p.m.): I wish to add to the maintained by private operators rather Address-in-Reply. Firstly, I would like than by a local authority or the Main to touch on an interesting topic raised by Roads Department. I understand that the The Hon. Mr, Ferry in his speech on the Main Roads Department has already fin- Address -in -Reply on opening day. I ancially assisted a firm, which constructs would like to comment on the importance and maintains its own roads, by contri- of "travel money' as he called it. buting money towards the upkeep of those A friend of mine was in England at the roads. All onaerators-whether they travel time of the seamen's strike over there and on public roads or on roads constructed in a letter to me he mentioned bow much privately-are subject to the road main- money Ireland had lost because of the tenance charge. However, in some cases effect of the strike on tourism. I quote- I understand the Main] Roads Department He said Ireland was feeling the has met the request of people concerned effect of the British seamen's strike, for somie financial adjustment, particu- which had been in progress for six larly in the instances to which I have re- weeks at the time of writing. ferred. Also, I understand that negotia- Being in the middle of the northern tions are proceeding with some sections of summer and holiday season, more than the community, particularly in Isolated in- 70,0c0 cars had been expected from dustries; where people do, in fact, construct England and the occupants were esti- and maintain their own roads under certain mated to spend $200,000,000. conditions, with a view to some alleviation This certainly represents a loss to the in regard to the fujnds necessary for the economy. maintenance of these roads. Thereforc, there is some flexibility in the situation As far as tourism is concerned, it is mn- at the present time. Although. as I have teresting to note that the goldfields have said, all the vehicles which use these roads. requested the Minister for Tourists to en- are subjected to the charge, consideration deavour to have a road cut through from is currently being given-and it will be Mandilla Station, on the Norseman road given in the future-to some adjustments throuigh Kambakia, the new nickel find, in these cizcumstanees. to Kalgoorlie. By this3 means those on the goldfields hope to induce people to Y would also like to refer very briefly- travel from Kambalda and on to Kal- as did The Hon. Mr. House-to a survey goorlie instead of going straight to Perth. wvltch was conducted in Africa on the As a result, Kalgoorlie would obtain some rosl-s of opcrating buses and trucks on money from tourism. roads with different surfaces. The report The Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: This would on this survey wvas compiled by Messrs. mean that Coolgardie would miss out Millard and Bonney. They quoted the again! mean cost in Pence Per rated gross ton mile on freight vehicles using bitumen sur- The Hon. G. E. D. B3RAND: Emanating fav2s at 0.94d. and on unimproved roads from the very worth-while trip through with gravel surfacs the cost was 1.69d.. the Kimberleys, which members of which is almost double that for a scaled Parliament recently enjoyed, was a surface. visit to Carnar von. Now that members in this House have seen the research I just mention these figures to emphasise station at Carnarvon, and have seen the some of the references Made by The Hon. great amount of seed growth and testing Mr. House, and with those few words, Mr. which is carried on there, they will under- President, I oppose the amendment. stand that Carnarvon faces water prob- lems. Two rivers have came down this Amendment put and a division taken year and, although they have not been with the following result:- very big rivers in the general sense of the Ayes-8. word, they have supplied sufficient water Hon. J. Dolan Hon. H. C. Strickland for this year. However, I am informed Bon. E. M.Rfeenan Hon. R. H. C. Btubbs by the research station officer at Carnar- Ron. R. F. Hutchison Ron. R. Thompson Hon. F. R. H. Lavery Hon. W. F. WVllesee von it is hoped to have further rain in (Telier the area. 172 172[COUNCIL.]

This, of course, is the immediate wish livestock and other commodities. In my but the people are also interested to hear view they could be issued with permits to that the Commonwealth Government Operate their trucks until such time as will come in and assist in an inspection of they Purchased new vehicles, which could an area, or a testing of the area, in order be built to the dimensions laid down in the to find a place at which to dam the Gas- regulatton. Coyne River. The people concerned con- Members will recall that when people sider this is most essential. I am sure all suffered hardship at Collie as a result of members in this House will agree with me floods the Government saw fit to grant when I say that I certainly hope the Com- them financial assistance. In the Carnar- monwealth Government, and the State von district both floods and droughts Government, will hasten that project and cause a great deal of concern to the resi- do something about damming the Gascoyne dents. One pastoralist explained to me that in the very near future. he had all his fences washed away during The I-on. R. Thompson: That is a good the last flood at Carnarvon, but he was project; needless to say, it was proposed unable to obtain any Government assist- by a Labor member. ance, or the loan of any cheap money to repair the damage. I would suggest that The Hon. G. E. D. BRAND: Those who the responsible live in that area naturally feel a little Ministers should ensure worried at the Present time. They have that in times of disaster not only should had approximately seven good seasons, people residing in the south-west who are which is a further reason for good pro- affected be granted relief, but also those gress to be made with this project. people who reside in the north. Among I might mention that following the trip other losses, the pastoralists around Car- by parliamentarians to the Ord project, narvon lost large numbers of sheep be- the goldfields people were most Interested cause of the floods. over the As a point of interest, I would now men- in several talks I gave, not only tion that air but also in other places. Over the past the tracking station at Carnar- few years the growth of Kalgoorlie has von, during the next festival to be held at Carnarvon in the second week in Sep- been very static, and the local people, tember, stories of so much money being will be tracking an object in orbit hearing which will be carrying the first man to spent in the north are naturally extremely reach 400 miles into space, Those members pleased but they wish, of course, that it who dis%- made the trip to the north have seen were being spent in the Kalgoorlie the N.A.S.A. project, and here I would trict. remind members that I will welcome them I would also mention that the people up residing in the Kalgoorlie district are there at any time. worried not so much about the road main- The Hon. C. E. Griffiths: Not in orbit, I tenance tax as they are about the regula- hope. tions imposing restrictions on the dimen- The H-on. G. E. D. BRAND: No, not in sions of road transport vehicles. All the orbit. submissions to me, with the exception of The Hon. R. Thompson: What about one, have been in regard to what a road giving us a talk on it transport operator is permitted to carry sometime? on his vehicles. The Hon. 0. E. D. BRAND: Yes, very It is to be hoped that the recomnmenda- well. As regards Exmouth Gulf there is tions made by Railways Commissioner one complaint which I would like to see Wayne in his recent report will be rectified. Commissioner Murdoch is doing adopted by the Government with a view his utmost to attract people to that cen- to an easing of the regulations on those tre, but unfortunately he is being plagued road hauliers. who cart cattle and other with officialdom. produce, not only in the Kimberleys, but The charges for public utilities, such as also in the Carnarvon, Meekatharra, and water and sewerage, at Exmouth Gulf are Wiluna districts. I have been appealing to extremely heavy, and this frightens away the Minister for Transport and the Min- those people who have any ideas of ister for Police to ease the restrictions on settling there. The charges for essential over-width vehicles operated in those services are $1,470 for a large block and parts, because I cannot see any reason why $785 for a small one. This amount covers they should be rigidly enforced. There is the premium for such services. These not a great deal of traffic on the roads, charges are considered by those in which are fairly wide, although many of authority to be too harsh, and we hope the them are very rough. I repeat, however, I departments concerned will look at this cannot see how an extra couple of inches problem with a view to making the charges in width would be the cause of accidents more equitable. on the road or would create undue con- The Ron. G. C. MacKinnon: Do those cern. charges cover the connection or the right to connect? I repeat the hope that the recommenda- tions in Mr. Wayne's report will be imple- The H-on. 0. E. D. BRAND: I do not mented in the near future to bring about know. an easing of these restrictions to the bene- The'Hon. Gi. C. MacKinnon: Well, you fit of those engaged in the transport of cannot argue W,:out it. [Tuesday, 9 August, 1966.117 173

The Hon, 0. E. D. BRAND: I Was, Therefore, according to the Act, any asked to mention it. Once again, I restaurant or hotel is supposed to have a would like to make known my gratitude large notice displayed indicating that to those who were responsible for organ- margarine is used on the premises. Also, ising the recent tour by parliamentarians the Act provides that every vessel or con- to the north. I also hope the wishes of tainer in which margarine is placed must the Minister concerned will be granted be clearly marked to indicate that it con- by the Commonwealth Parliament in the tains margarine before it is placed on the near future. table. Such a provision still remains in the Act, but has never been enforced. THE HON. F. D. WJLLMOTT (South- The Hon. R. Thompson: You would not West) [8.? p.m.3: in this debate on the want to see it enforced, would you? Address-in-Reply I wish to refer to margarine quotas which have had a great The. Hon. F. D. WILLMAOrI: No, quite deal of publicity in recent months. Argu- frankly, I would not. In fact, the whole ment on margarine quotas is nothing new. Act has not been rigidly enforced be- A similar controversy Occurred in the late cause the quotas have been exceeded by 1930's, with the result that, after consul- aver 6,000 tons. tation, the Australian Agricultural Council The Hon. R. Thompson: It would not requested the various States to pass legis- be so bad if they were using the natural lation to fix a quota on margarine pro- Australian products. duction. At that time there was a The 'Hon. F. 1). WILLMOTr: I will deal considerable body of opinion which with that aspect later. In this margarine thought the production of table margarine controversy there is a tendency to view should be prohibited completely. So far the whole matter in the light of marga- as I am concerned, I am glad to say that rine versus butter. That, of course, is wiser counsel prevailed and it was decided a complete fallacy because there is a great to impose a quota, the result being that, deal more to the dairying industry than in 1940. The Hon. F. J. S. Wise, the then the production of butter. Although the Minister for Lands in another place, industry is still largely based on butter introduced a Bill for the purpose of Production, there bringing into force a quota system on are many other pro- margarine production. ducts which are produced in the dairying The quota fixed in this State, in 1941, industry. was 364 tons. Quotas were also fixed In The arguments frequently put forward all the other States, and the total quota by people who do not believe in a quota for all States at that time was 3,973 tons. for margarine production is that the Since that date, only Victoria has not dairying industry receives from the Corn- changed it quota. In 1940 the Victorian iiioiweaith a subsidy of $27,000 .000 an- quota was 1,196 tons, and it remains the nually; but that, again, is not a correct same today. In the other States the quota statement. The dairying industry, as a has been altered in varying degrees. In whole, does not receive the subsidy; it 1952, Western Australia, increased the is only the butterfat section which re- margarine quota to 800 tons, and New ceives it. That Is the only section of South Wales increased Its quota from the dairying industry which Is entitled 1,248 to 9,000 tons: a rise of 621 per cent. to any share of the $27,000,000 subsidy. Queensland granted a rise of 557 per At the same time, although the butter- cent.: South Australia, 69 per cent., Wes- fat section does receive a subsidy, the tern Australia 120 per cent., and Tasmania dairying industry as a whole is bringing 50 per cent. The overall result of that into Australia income from exports of action throughout the Commonwealth about $117,000,000. Therefore the over- was that quotas were increased from all position is beneficial to the nation. 3,973 tons to 16.072 tons: an overall This is in direct contrast to the posi- increase, In Australia, of 304 per cent. tion of margarine, as Mr. Ron Thompson So some of the arguments that have been has implied by interjection. The products raised against the quota. system being from which margarine is made are largely too static can hardly bear proper exam- not Produced in Australia. Something like ination if they are looked at in a proper 80 per cent, of the bulk of the edible oils lignra. are still imported. Furthermore, marga- For instance, although the present quota rine produces practically no export is 16,072 tons, the actual production was income for Australia: if there is any it 22,700 tons; that is, approximately 6.700 is very small. tons in excess of the quotas. Therefore The H-on. H. C. Strickland: Any im- it can be seen that the quotas have not been rigidly enforced. While speaking in Ports from the Australian territories? that vein I might point out that, in fact, The Hon. F. D. WILLMOTT: There are the original Act has not been rigidly imports from New Guinea, but how long enforced. that territory will remain Australian we In the parent Act, which remains un- can Only guess. I think It might re- altered, it is provided that anyone selling main Australian territory for less time margarine must clearly display a, large thani many of us would likc to see. I say placard to indicate that margarine is sold the dairying industry is still based largely in that establishment. on butterfat, but it is a changing situa- 174 174[COUNCIL.] tion. Of the total milk production of There has been a doubt in the minds of Australia at the moment, 62.4 per cent. some People of the right of a State to is used in the production of butter. limit production, and in this respect I am I have tried to find out the percentage thinking of the potato industry. A doubt for 1940 when the legislation fixing quotas existed in the minds of the growers and was first introduced, but I have not been other sections of the community as to successful. I was able to find cut that whether the Potato Marketing Board in the record year for butter production Western Australia had the right to limit in Australia was 1939-40. That being production, if it was for export to other the record year it becomes quite obvious States. I say it is quite clear now that it that the percentage of the total milk pro- has that right. In fact, in the ease duction used in the making of butter recently taken by the Potato Marketing must have been greatly in excess of 62.4 Board In my area it has become evident per cent., the present-day percentage. that the board has that right. The posit- This demonstrates the fact that the ion was in doubt before, but the decision dairying industry is changing slowly, and of the Privy Council has cleared up that is not so largely dependent on butter pro- doubt. duction as it was previously; and, fur- The Hon. R. Thompson: That case is ther, our eating habits and our exports a little different from this one. That dealt are changing. wi th a board within the jurisdiction of that Cheese exports to other than the United State. Kingdom have doubled in the last five years. Anybody who 10 years ago said The Hon. F. D. WILLMOTT: Yes. That that Australia would be exporting dairy is the case the Potato Marketing Board is Products to the U.S.A. would have been arguing on, under section 92 of the Con- laughed at; but that is what is happen- stitution. There was a doubt whether the ing today. At the moment there are board could control the production of very good prospects of considerably in- potatoes if they were for sale in other creased trade with the U.S.A., particu- States, but now the position has been larly in respect of cheese exports. cleared up. That is exactly the ground There are many other lines of export on which the margarine producers are which are increasing, particularly proces- basing their case. sed milk in the form of condensed milk The Hon. R. Thompson: That is a and milk powders. In fact, at present different case. We set quotas for margar- there is a world shortage of milk powder. inc prariuction in this State. I think the industry in Australia will take advantage of that situation and develop The H-on. F. D. WJLLMOTT: So did the further exports. Potato Marketing Board set quotas for It has been stated by some of the mar- potatoes. No doubt many people have read garine manufacturers that the quota re- the literature which has been distributed striction is having a detrimental effect on by the Australian Dairy Industry Council. production of edible oils in Australia. That Some of it is particularly interesting in argument was used in 1940, but what has regard to unethical advertising which has happened hardly bears out their statement. been going on in respect of margarine. because the main oils produced in Aus- The result was that in 1965 the Statute tralia are safflower, peanut, and cotton Law Ravision Committee3 of Victoria stud- seed. In 1965 the total production of these ied the question of unethical and mislead- oils was 6,30 tons, and not all of that ing advertisements in regard to margarine. was used in the manufacture of mararine. As a consequence it published a statement, because some of it is not fit for human and I would like to quote some portions of consumption and is used in the' manufac- It. ture, of soap and other commodities. It said there was strong objection to the A good deal of this oil, particularly pea- emotional advertising by those promoting nut and safflower, is sold direit to the the sale of mararine, and it was submit- public for cooking purposes. The total ted that housewives were given the impres- production being 6,300 tons, there is plenty sion that the-y were failing in their duty of room left for expansion in this industry, to their families if they did not regularly in Q'wI of thr fart tlnt oiir total con- use maragarine. The pamphlet oes on to sumurtion for all purporfrs is 32.260 tons. state- So the propocsition that is put forward that Loose phrases such as "informed the quota inhibits the development of our medical opinion" and the use of the edible oil nrodtirtion docs not stand up to R.X svmibol.-a recognised medical v-rv mu)-h scrutiny. symbol-imaply that the statements made in the advertisement have some The Hon. R. Thompson: Marrlekvllle Puthoritative medical background. los its rasc before th- Prv Council. Further on it states-- The Hon. F. D. WILLMOTT: That is Another undesirable feature was said right, and the Pivy Council refused to to be that a food such as marearine countennce an appeal. But that will not should be pushed into what might be stop the argument In regard to the quotas termed the curative field. on the production of margarine. Some Again furthrr on it states-- comnanies wvill try to go a long way But it is clear that claims of health further than this. The decision of the bcnefits. either precise or inferred, Privy Council has cleared up the matter. which are based upon incomplete or in- LTuesday, 9 August, 1966.115 175

conclusive research, are objectionable. knows, it has not been possible to show The use of medical symbols such as whether reducing dietary fats will, in ax are calculated to mislead by in- fact, reduce the risk of heart disease" ference of some degree of medical That statement was made by a man who is approval, and it is undesirable that considered to be an authority on the sub- medical terms unlikely to be under- ject. I know of many People who have stood in their true concept should be fallen for this advertising. Those people used on packaging or promotiona thought that by eating margarine instead advertisements. of butter they would avoid heart attacks. From those statements it appears that The Hon. V. J. Ferry: It is much some of the advertising of margarine must cheaper. have been, to put it plainly, red hot. Having looked into this matter, and hav- The Hon. F. D. WfLJLMOTT: It might ing argued the point with many people be; but it might not be in the long run. I find the statement of Dr, R. R. Reader, However, to get back to the dairying in- National Medical Director of the National dustry, quite apart from any other argu- Heart Foundation, to be very interesting. ment, I think the dairying industry has His statement has been included in the probably played a greater part in the booklet to which I have been referring. development of land, particularly in the It is- southern areas of our State. than any Let me be clear that we are other industry. speaking about the condition arterio- I have even heard people say sometimes, sclerosis, commonly known as harden- "But do we want a dairying industry now? ing of the arteries. This condition is Do we want a butter industry?" I have at the back of coronary occlusion, heard people quite genuinely ask those coronary artery disease generally and questions. My answer is simple. That many forms of stroke. it is, therefore, decision was made for us long ago; way the most important form of heart back in the early 1920's it was decided we disease and certainly the commonest. would have an organised dairying industry Let rae also be clear that it is certain in this State. The same decision was made that there are many causes, not just in the other States of Australia a great one. Heredity, obesity, cigarette smok- deal earlier than the 1920's. It was this ing, lack of exercise may all be causes; very industry which played a great part in diet also may be a cause. The idea the development of a good deal of our land. that diet is responsible in some way And to say it is now redundant is absurd. for heart disease arose from the com- I think with all agricultural development, paratively recent observation that this Mr. President, as You would be well aware, form of disease is common in affiluent when one starts to develop land one looks societies and so too is a high content first to the development of cash crops,. of fat and particularly animal fat in That type of development takes many the diet. forms. In my younger days I lived in the Arising out of that simple observa- south-west portion of this State when the tion, an enormous amount of research bullock teams and the horse teams were has been carried out throughout the the only means of hauling available to the world timber industry. The result was there was to investigate the theory that a boom in chaff growing, and the chaff dietary fat is some way related to this industry was responsible for developing a disease and from that research con- great deal of the country in the south- flicting in many ways as it is, there are west. four things which I think one may Another instance is tobacco growing, say with confidence. which occurred more latterly. Tobacco Firstly, a high level of fat, certain growing took place in the Manjimup area. fatty substances including cholesterol It has gone now but It existed for 25 in the blood is associated with a high years and there are many fine buildings in risk of heart disease. Secondly, one Maui imup today which are the relult of cannot say that these fatty substances tobacco sales and nothing else. However, in the blood necessarily cause heart because the tobacco industry has now gone, disease. The relationship may be and the chaff industry has now gone, is coincidental. Thirdly, reduction of the no argument to say they should never have level of these fatty substances in the been. Nothing could be sillier than that blood can be achieved by certain in my humble opinion. means-the use of drugs and the use To digress a little. I think the same of certain dietary modifications. But applies to the Ord River scheme. I con- let me be quite clear, let me emphasise tinually read statements in the Press by that the dietary modifications must be people who I think ought to know better. complete and thorough otherwise they They write to the effect that they want to would be a waste of time. It would know about the everlasting economy of not do simply to substitute some types the cotton industry. That is bunkum, in of margarine for butter-the whole my opinion, because cotton In the Ord diet would have to be checked and River area is simply the developmental modified; and the fourth thing that cash crop. But to think that cotton is the I would like to say is that nobody be-all and end-all of the Ord River scheme 176 176ASSEMBLY.] is, to my way of thinking, Complete non- months. The dairying industry is really sense. To Say that some day it might out to keep this market and I think the crack up, so we should not go on with it, big feature about dairy Products exported is complete nonsense. That type of person to the Asian markets is that they need not takes a trembling attitude to every type necessarily be butter, of industry and every new development in The big advance has been-and this is this State. where I say that the whole industry is There is a vast potential in the Ord River getting away from the production of but- area, apart from cotton, but cotton looks ter and into other products-in the export like being the developmental cash crop. I of preserved, condensed, and concentrated do not think there is a better crop at the milk. These exports increased from 19.000 mioment, but that is not the only develop- tons to 40,000 tons in five years. That is ment which will take place in the Ord an increase of 105 per cent. in five years scheme. The longer we delay the cotton so, undoubtedly, it is a big potential mar- growing the sooner we might have to make ket for our dairying industry. the decision that some other crop will The Hon. V. J. Ferry: Is there room for have to be the developmental cash crop. both the margarine and the butter in- The Hon. H. C. Strickland: There is a dustry? shortage of beef also. The Hon. F. D. WILLMOTT: There cer- The Hon. F. D. WILLMO Pr: That is tainly is. Nobody is saying that there quite right. I believe that eventually one should not be any margarine. I would of the biggest products from the Ord point out that the quota applies only to scheme will be beef. During our recent table margarine and not to cooking mar- trip through the north, I was a little garine. There never has been a limit on disappointed with the Kimberley Research the production of cooking margarine. To Station. A great deal of fine work has say the production of margarine has been been done there over the years. The last static is silly. Going back to the figures trip north was not my first and I have I quoted earlier, the quotas increased from watched the research at the Kimberley 3,973 tons to 16,072 tons, and the actual production at present is 22,700 tons. So station for some years. Undoubtedly, that the industry has had more than a fair station has done a fine job, and still is deal out of it, and I believe there will be doing a fine job. 1 believe its officers will pressure in many quarters from the pro- come up with more answers regarding the ducers to have the quotas removed alto- cotton and I feel the extra production gether. which will be obtained in the near future But so far as I am concerned, and in the will offset any decline in prices. That is interests of the dairying industry-which my own personal feeling. is valuable to Australia as a nation-I The disappointing thing to me is that would certainly oppose the lifting of quotas. more research has not taken place with I do not say that from time to time the regard to cattle. More could be done at quotas should not be increased, but up to the Kimberley Research Station with re- date the producers have had more than search into the beef cattle industry. a fair go in that regard with an increase I seem to have digressed a little but I of over 300 per cent. since 1940. 1 do not was merely instancing the fact that all have anything further to growl about in aericultural development has been based regard to quotas. on some regional cash crop: and the re- gional cash crop) in a great part of the Debate adjourned, on motion by The southern areas of the State--and I do not Hon. R. Thompson. mean only the south-west, but also the House adjourned at 8.40 p.mn. great southern-has been the dairy cow. And it still is in miany areas. The dairy cow in the southern Dart of the State has been responsible for more land develop- ment than any uther single factor. So I think any foolish talk about not wanting a butter industry, as many people refer to it. is quite fallacious. As I pointed 31rgtslatiur Nornibtg out, there is a great deal more to the Tuesday, the 9th August, 1965 dairy industry than just butter. CONTENTS Pg I think this industry is developirt very fast in some directions, particularly in the ADDRESS-IN-REPLY: FOURTH DAY- Speakers DII Motion- export of milk powders and the like. Mr. Brady...... 196 Cheese exports to the United Kingdom Mr. Burt...... 192 Mr. Detack...... 205 doubled during the last five years. The Mr. Evans...... 209 United Kingdomi takes well in excss of Er Marshall...... 14 70 par cent. of our totrl exports of dairy HANSARD:- PUBELICATION ON TUESDAYS 191 products. We also expo-rt tn) S0 other PARLIAMENT HOUSE BELLS: TESTING . l9t countries. Only in 1960 we had practically QUESTIONS ON NOTICE- no export whatever of cheese to Japan. Air Pollution- iusplemcentalos of Act 178 At present we export to Japan 4.000 tons Kwinana:. sulphur Dioxide Pollution 178 of cheese, and it is anticipated that this Albsny-Dcnstfiak-Wlpole Bus Services : Curtail- figure could be doubled in the next 12 menit ... .. 1. - .. ISO