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STATE LIBRARY of WESTERN AUSTRALIA Sir Norman Brearley

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STATE LIBRARY of WESTERN AUSTRALIA Sir Norman Brearley STATE LIBRARY OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA WELBORN WORLD WAR ONE COLLECTION Transcript of an interview with Sir Norman Brearley ACCESS RESEARCH: Open PUBLICATION: To be advised of request to publish STATE LIBRARY OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA - ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION DATE OF INTERVIEW: 23 August 1976 INTERVIEWER: Suzanne Welborn TRANSCRIBER: Julia Kay Wallis DURATION: 34 mins, 40 secs REFERENCE NUMBER: OH4103/1 COPYRIGHT: State Library of Western Australia Transcription 1976.08.23 SLWA (World War One Veterans) Sir Norman BREARLEY Interview with Sir Norman Brearley 23 August 1976. Brearley, Norman (NB)It’s mainly to do with the effects of the First World War on Western Australia, is that it? Welborn Suzanne (SW) That’s right, yes. (NB) Would you like a little table between us, or? (SW) No, no. That’s all right. That’s fine. (NB) That’s near enough? (SW) Yes. I’d like to know what you were doing at the time when it was announced that there was a War. (NB) Oh. Oh, well, that’s easy. You haven’t started it? (SW) Yes. It’s going. (NB) We‘ll start with when the War broke out in 1914, I was serving an engineering apprenticeship in Perth and I was in my final year. I decided to complete that year before I enlisted. (SW) How old were you? (NB) I was twenty-four then. (SW) Can you remember what you were doing when you heard about the war? (NB) Yes. I was at this engineering apprenticeship work in a foundry in Perth, engineering foundry. The announcement came of course as we took it in our stride and said, “So, there’s a War. That means we are almost certain to be dragged into it and what do we do?” So I applied myself to the balance of my term with this apprenticeship and remained just giving thought to the war occasionally and making up my mind that the best thing that I could think of would be to join the Flying Corps. Having been interested in motor cycles and motor cars up to that point, in their repair and maintenance and riding them and driving them. I had a mechanical nous which was deeply ingrained into me. (SW) Were you unusual in this? Were there many men who wanted to join the Flying Corps? 2 1976.08.23 SLWA (World War One Veterans) Sir Norman BREARLEY (NB) Well, I wouldn’t know that. But I think that - (SW) In Western Australia? (NB) Ah, well. In Western Australia there was no Flying ... There was no branch of the Australian Flying Corps1. There was a branch in Victoria at Point Cook but the number of aeroplanes they had you could count on the fingers of one hand. They were of doubtful reliability. It occurred to me that, rather than go East and wait in a long queue, I would work my passage to England, because as an apprentice, I had no money; so how could I get to England unless I worked my passage? So, I decided then to work my passage to England and join, or try and join, the Royal Flying Corps2. The Managing Director of the Engineering Shop said to me, “How are you going to England?” I said, “I’ve scraped enough money together to go in the lowest fare on one of these ships.” He said, “You won’t do that. Don’t think you’ve learnt everything in the engineering world. You are going to work your passage in the engine room. I will arrange it.” Do you want to change that? (SW) No, that’s all right. (NB) So, he did arrange it and I was taken on in a Government ship called The Bambra which was a German ship that had been seized by the Federal authorities and placed at the disposal of the WA Government. Well, this ship was then in demand overseas because of the shipping losses already incurred and it was sold to the British Government and it had to go home. No, I’m wrong in that respect. I went on the Bambra up to Darwin and back as my first introduction as a junior engineer. Then, the ship that was sold to the British Government was called The Western Australia. It was two thousand three hundred tonnes. (SW) It wasn’t the same German ship? 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Flying_Corps 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Flying_Corps 3 1976.08.23 SLWA (World War One Veterans) Sir Norman BREARLEY (NB) No, no. It was a Government owned, West Australian Government-owned ship. [00:04:53] (SW) And when did you sail on that for England? (NB) In 1915. Towards the middle of 1915. (SW) So you’d heard about the casualties at Gallipoli before you left? (NB) Oh yes. (SW) How did that affect you? (NB) Oh, no affect at all. The War was on so there was adventure waiting for you. (SW) It didn’t put you off? (NB) No. no. The excitement of war is something that grips young men. Fortunately for the nation. I don’t there is any feeling of fear. You just say, “Well, so what? They’ve had it. I might miss out.” I couldn’t get there quickly enough. I thought the War might end before I got there, so let’s hurry. That was the attitude of young men. (SW) But some of the troops who went later, say that they went with more responsibility than the ones who went formerly, because they knew about the casualties. You don’t think that’s so? That they went with some - (NB) Well, those that were going into the trenches, I agree that it was a pretty grim prospect. The same as those that went into the Flying Corps depended upon their own ability to control their aircraft and to survive encounters with the enemy in the air. But that’s all part of the excitement of flying in wartime. But those who went in the trenches, I think it was a terribly unpleasant prospect to be cooped up in these narrow trenches unable to get adequate protection from enemy shootings. (SW) Was any pressure put on you to enlist? (NB) Oh, none at all. Oh, no. No, it was a case of, “Oh, let’s get there before this show ends.” Because this is excitement. This is really something that you want to be in. 4 1976.08.23 SLWA (World War One Veterans) Sir Norman BREARLEY (SW) Did any of your friends go with you or were you alone on the ship? (NB) I was alone on the ship because I was the most junior engineer and we had no passengers. We were just taking this ship to the UK to be sold. The experience I gained from an engineering point of view has always been of very great value to me. (SW) How long did the trip take? (NB) Something like three months. (SW) On the ship? (NB) On the ship. (SW) And was there any danger from? (NB) Yes, well, the danger was when we entered the English Channel because we could see the masts and funnels of sunken ships and we knew that the area was mined and that there was the risk of being blown up. But even that, you always thought, well, there are life boats and there are life rafts, and so don’t worry. (SW) So when did you actually join the Flying Corps? (NB) I went to the War Office, as it was called in those days, and joined a long queue of young men waiting to enlist in the Royal Flying Corps. I was interviewed when my turn came and was accepted, subject to a course in military discipline and knowledge at a school in Bedford in England. Having passed the examinations there, after a period of training, I was then enlisted in an army branch which was called “The Third Battalion King’s Liverpool Regiment3 because the Royal Flying Corps was filled to its approved establishment and the Flying Corps accepted then army personnel attached Royal Flying Corps. So we were designated then, Third Battalion King’s Liverpool Regiment, attached Royal Flying Corps, later on. Later on. (SW) Had you ever been up in a ‘plane? (NB) Oh no. (SW) Had any of them? 3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Regiment_(Liverpool) 5 1976.08.23 SLWA (World War One Veterans) Sir Norman BREARLEY (NB) No. Not to – oh, there was some waiting in the queue had flown at Aero Clubs and that sort of thing, particularly English people. (SW) And were there many Australians? [PAUSE] (NB) What was the last …? (SW) It was about joining the regiment? (NB) We were then attached to the Royal Flying Corps, later on to become part of an expanded unit. (SW) Was this the end of 1915? (NB) This was in August 1915. [00:10:07] (SW) Were there many Australian with you? (NB) No. Very few. (SW) Were there any other Western Australians? (NB) Not that I know of at that time. (SW) Did you feel lonely? (NB) No. Not a bit. (SW) You got to know these other men? (NB) Oh, yes. When you go into camp, in an army camp or any other unit, you are quickly part of it. (SW) And did you feel homesick? (NB) No. Not a bit. No. The excitement was there. It’s an extraordinary feeling to know that there is a war and you are going to be part of it and you want to get there before it’s over and join in the excitement.
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