“ RAMBLINGS” …A Discussion With 1

Introduction Growing Up I’m not a speech giver, I’m a talker! And I was born in Southgate, California in I’m going to talk to you today a little bit 1930 and I will be 70 years old come about my career, a little bit about March 13th. I was raised in the Imperial something I’m doing now…but I want to Valley. My Dad was from tell you what they always say of great Indianapolis…just outside of Indianapolis. speakers. They say “well, he’s the Cadillac of speakers.” Well, I don’t carry We have a picture at home of Dad’s State notes and as far as being a Cadillac of Fair hog that he won a blue ribbon with. speakers I’m more like a Nash Rambler! Dad was still ‘country’…even though we Mainly because I ramble between points were living in downtown…well, outskirts of and I just jump in where I think God Los Angeles. Back in those days it was meant for me to go, and that’s the way I still 15 to 30 miles between boroughs. talk. So, at any time during my little Within the inner mountains it is just one dissertation should you have a question megalopolis but what I’m talking about is please raise your hand and we’ll go right if you went from LA to Long Beach, you into it. To me that’s just another way to would get in your car and drive out of LA ramble! and you’d drive for 20 to 30 miles and

1 Doug Harvey is a retired where he presided over games for 31 years. He is a cancer survivor and is the National Spokesman for the National Spit Tobacco Education Program. Through January 2002 Harvey has spoken to over 156,000 individuals about the health risks of spit tobacco. This is a transcription of remarks made by Doug Harvey at the Chapter of the Society for American Research (SABR) meeting on January 29, 2000, edited by Tom Larwin.

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 2 nothing but open ground and then hit Long I really do. I think that in the country Beach. That’s the way it was when I was you learn the difference between right a kid. and wrong and there is no black and white, it is all just people. You learn the Well, in 1940 things had not progressed difference between right and wrong too marvelously in the way of people. But because in a small community, especially Dad said that this place is getting too back in those days, if you did anything crowded. Being an ex-country boy he wrong the cops were all over your butt. moved us to Imperial Valley…we arrived And if your Dad got word of it, he’d kick on Greyhound bus at 12:30 at night and it the hell out of you. Or your Mom would, was 97 degrees…I said he moved us to in our case, beat the hell out of you. My hell! There is no doubt in my mind it was Mom beat us until she started breaking the hottest summer they had in like 40 clothes hangers. Wooden clothes years. hangers! Once we started laughing back at her then your spankings were through. When we arrived and I took my first step out of the bus and I went (Harvey makes That’s the way I was raised. So, I got to crunching sounds with his feet) and I be about 13 years of age when finally she looked around and I stepped on a cricket! quit spanking on me. But I think that it Well, that was fascinating because I was great way to be raised. learned in Imperial Valley in those days you could not walk across the street without stepping on crickets. You would Don’t Dare Me hear the cars going down Main Street and People don’t realize that when I was four they would go (again Harvey is making years old my Dad and Mom took me to crunching sounds) killing all of these damn Queen of Angels Hospital in Los Angeles crickets. So, they finally got smart down and they said, “take him home he will be there and they got the spray planes out dead in six months.” I had a 2500-to-1 and they sprayed the town at 4:00 in the chance of living. I had nephritis…sickness morning. Helluva lawsuit…two ladies lost of the kidneys. They took me around the their birds. Their canaries died…helluva corner about a mile away to Children’s lawsuit. But the great thing about it was Hospital…the first woman surgeon in the we killed all of the crickets?! State of California…she said, “I don’t know whether it will do any good or not but we’ll try.” And she operated on me Roots and they took my insides out and I have a But I think to myself, and I told my wife, scar about that big (Harvey gestures on I think that the one mistake that I have his right side of stomach area) and they felt that I made: I wished that I would took the insides out and laid them on a have raised my kids in a country setting. tray and cut me over here (he gestures to

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 3 his left side) and stuck a hose in that on with this game either with or without end. They just washed it all out! And I you.” lived. My methodology was to put everything in I just recently survived cancer where their hands…always put it in their they gave me a 30% chance of living. And hands…that’s the way I taught and how I don’t really understand “‘I can’t do it.” some of the better umpires in the league I just don’t know…I’ll give you a good ‘for worked, guys like Frank Pulli and Gerry instance’. I came home and it was a Crawford…these were two of my better pretty cold part of the year, it was pupils. But I always taught ‘em that…”put toward the end of the year. And I told it in their hands.” Let them know…”OK, my wife…my hair was always cut in a flat we’re going to go on with or without you – top, and I told her “I think I’m going to it’s up to you. If you stay you’re gone. let my hair grow. It’s been a long time Well that’s in your hands. Do what you since I had it grown.” And she says “don’t want.” And that’s the way you eject you dare. I like your hair the way it is.” people…nicely! So, I went back on the road and six weeks later I come back and my hair is all grown out. Because don’t you tell me Learn One Thing ‘don’t you dare!’ Harvey dares! I went into umpiring at age 16. I got into officiating because of the fact that I And so I went that way with long hair for could not stand the referees that worked about three years and we get in the our basketball games. You have to middle of the summer and it’s hotter than understand something, too, I was 5’ 8” the devil and I said to her ‘you know, I and weighed 90 pounds when I entered think I’m going to cut my hair in a flat top high school. I went out for the JV again.’ She said ‘please don’t honey, I like football team and I made it. Played it the way it is.’ That was some 30 years basketball and baseball. Those were the ago. You can get a helluva lot more with great days where you played football and ‘honey’ with me than you can telling me you came in with your football gear and what to do. you handed it in here and you walked over to this other window and you pulled your basketball gear, and then you got a Ejecting People…Nicely basketball and you started in with When umpiring the final words from basketball. Harvey were “now let tell you something, I‘ve listened to you haven’t I?”…(the I prefer it that way…I wish the hell we would respond) “Yes you would go back to it. I think you would see have”…then I would say “you haven’t more triple athletes, and the better changed my mind…now we’re going to go athletes would be playing three sports.

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Maybe the small schools could turn out win, lose, or draw but to compete.” And better athletes instead they have to play I’ve been that way all of my life. When I football and either track or baseball, and set up to get started in umpiring Bob most of them don’t want to go out for Farrell told me one thing he said “I’m baseball because they want to be faster going to give you something that I think when they come back for football. So the you will really make you a final man.” I coaches make them go out for track. I asked, “What’s that?” He said, “for the don’t believe in that. I think that they rest of your life learn some one thing should have to play as many sports as every day.” they can. Well, I learned today that it is the I wrestled as a 90-pounder, and I Society for American Baseball wrestled in the 107-pound class in my Research…I knew of SABR but I didn’t first year. I had something inside of me. know what the hell it meant. But to learn I could not stand not to compete. And I some one thing is very important to you. don’t know why…I don’t know what that’s Try to do it. And if you go home at night all about. But that’s deep inside of Doug and you sit down and really think to Harvey. yourself “now what the hell did I learn today.” And nothing comes easy…I used I had a great coach in high school by the to carry a dictionary with me…get out an name of Bob Farrell who told me “you encyclopedia. Spend five minutes…three have less talent than any of the starting minutes…two minutes…you will learn five on our basketball team.” Farrell was something new every day. Can’t hurt you. our football coach and he coached the basketball team because the coach that was coaching it got sick and quit. Well, in Getting to the Major Leagues one year he took our basketball team This lesson that Bob Farrell gave me from a school of 600 students to the helped me when I got into the minor semi-finals of the Southern California leagues. Professional baseball is 124 State Championship at Redondo Beach. years old…in 1876 it was started. I’m the Compton High School beat us by two only umpire to go from Class C baseball to points. And that’s a school of 2300 and AAA to the major leagues, in the period their starting five the next year was so of one year. I went to AAA for one good, when I was in junior college, they season and then I went to the major were USC’s freshman team. And we beat leagues. I’m the only one to ever do that their asses. But, we competed, and the in the history of the game. It will never coach, I never forgot, he told me “Harv, be done again…there is no Class C! you have less talent of any of our starting five but you have more heart than any kid When I went into the minor leagues I was that I ever met for competition. Not to about 6’2” and 170 pounds, good looking

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 5 fella, liked a few drinks, liked to toddle a went into his stretch and just about the few. And my partners would always say time he looked back this runner broke for “hey, let’s go down to the Kern River, 3rd. Well, Vic gives him one of these there’s broads down there. C’mon we’ll go looks (Harvey gestures) and when that down and chase the broads for the guy went he just turned and threw it to afternoon it’s hot and everything in 3rd base, and the 3rd baseman was ready Fresno California.” for it. However, the base runner reversed, dives back to 2nd base, and I For air conditioning in those days in our say ‘you’re safe.’ hotels they would put a big, big fan at the end of the hallway. If you wanted your Out comes Buddy! “Ha! Ha! Got you room air-conditioned you opened up the Harv! Got ya! Got ya! Got ya!” I said “do transom and you cracked the door a little you really Buddy?” He says, “a man can’t bit then you put something against the not throw to an unoccupied base, it’s a door so somebody didn’t sneak in in case !” Now this is getting loud! I said you fell asleep and took a nap. But I (softly), “Buddy, I’m so proud of you.” remember those days, and I would tell Buddy and all of the idiots in the stands them “no, I’ve got things I’ve got to do, are going nuts. But he’s hollering out just got to do some things…I’ve gotta do there and I just told him quietly “Buddy some laundry, call my Mom…” well, I lied! I’m so proud of you” and he got this Probably the only lies I ever told in my dumbfounded look that I strived for. life. But I tell you what I did, it got me “What do you mean, Harv?” I said “to to the major leagues quicker than think that somebody in this God-forsaken anything, other than the fact that I could league is studying the rule book besides umpire…what I did was: I studied my rule me. That pleases me so much.” Kerr book two hours every day for every day replied “don’t give me that Harv, it’s a that I put in the minor leagues. Two balk, it’s a balk, it’s a balk!” Then I said hours every day…I never missed. “I am so proud of you and I realize the rule you are speaking of, it’s 8.05 sections, a to m, 13 ways to balk, you are Section 8.05 of the Rule Book speaking specifically of 8.05j which I recall a situation where Buddy Kerr, states a man cannot throw to an who was the manager at Fresno and unoccupied base.” I read on, “comma, former 2nd baseman for the old New York except for the express purpose of making Giants, and I was there umpiring the ball a play…where the hell was he running to?” game. He had a runner at 2nd base. A Kerr said, “Goddamn it Harv, you got me young fellow named Vic Davillilio was again.” And, you gotta remember that pitching for Visalia…Vic Davillilo, whether this is my second year of umpiring in you knew it or not, was a pitcher in the professional ball. minor leagues. Vic was pitching, and he

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You have to make your promises in life to A Break in San Diego yourself. You have to set goals. There The reason that I got the job in the was no doubt in my mind. I didn’t learn happened because I was these things in school. I learned them in San Diego. I umpired 155 games three the hard way. I’m the last of the umpires years in a row here, in five months of to not go to umpires school. I did not baseball. I was working triple headers on attend any school I did it the hard way. Saturdays and double headers on Sundays. But I had it my mind that’s But I was umpiring in San Diego and I got when I was going to give it a shot. I to the ballpark down in El Cajon (a remember that I told the guys my plans suburban city east of San Diego)…it was a while I was watching the great Don semi pro game. And I didn’t know Larsen throw his perfect game on TV…I anything about it and I just got there and was working at the Playhouse Bar up on El I was assigned to work the bases. Two Cajon Boulevard. I was bouncer there man system. Then this other fellow was from 10 o’clock at night until 2 o’clock in supposed to work home plate, and he the morning. Then we’d scrub down the slapped his shin guard on…and he went bar and everything in there and then we’d “oh-oh…my God.” I said “what’s wrong open the bar at 7:30 in the morning so with you.” He says “…just a stitch.” “Oh, that the early drinkers could come in…I’d God damn,” I said, “what the hell is pour em’ their drinks and forget them and wrong?” The guy said, “I don’t know.” I go scrub down the steak cooking plate in ask, “Can you stand up?” He said, “Yeah, the kitchen and then mop the floors and it’s when I bend over.” So I said, “Fine, then head for San Diego State. That was you work the bases I’ll work the plate.” my job. You always carried your gear and you wore the same pants on the bases as you But this one day I was standing there and did behind the plate. So, it was no big we were watching this game and I’m deal. I went to my little DeSoto that I watching Larsen do his job and I said had, slapped on those shin guards, and got “that’s it boys” and they said “what out there and I’m calling balls and strikes. Harv?” I said you guys are going to be watching me on that someday. They were About the third inning the guy catching puzzled and said, “What are you talking says, “hey kid, you’re doing a pretty good about?” I said, “I’m going to umpire in job.” I said, “I appreciate that.” Then he the major leagues.” And I got laughed said, “Well, especially for so important a out of the bar that day. Laughed out of game.” Whoops! I said, “What do you the bar. Eleven years later they were mean an important game?” He said, “you watching me on TV working my first don’t know, do you?” I replied, “No sir, I in 1968. don’t.” He said this is the final game of the five game set between LA county,

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 7 which they were, and San Diego county another 20 weeks to straighten out my for the championship between the two left foot which was cut in at about a 25- counties. I said, “Well, that’s nice.” I degree angle. I said “now I’m working my guess it was big to him and, you know, I ass off to pay off that $800 God dang could have asked him what’s it going to gasoline bill that I worked up when I mean to him…probably a party when they wasn’t working cause the coach at San get home…I don’t know. But, we go back Diego State took my working job on to work and in the next half inning he campus.” He said “whew, you had it comes out and he says, “by the way, was pretty good.” I said, “Yes I have.” He the guy at the first base supposed to questioned me, “if I can get you a job do work the plate?” I said “yeah.” He said you want to go to work?'’ Whoa...did I “he was supposed to work the final game calm down. I said, “I certainly would.” for three straight years and he hasn’t He said “fine, here’s my card…if you don’t worked the plate yet.” I said, “no hear from me in a week, you call me at kidding.” that number.” I said “fine.”

We finished the game…no problems there…and everything works out fine…and Getting Married I walk over to the other umpire. I’m not About a week and half later I get a in too good a mood. The guy says “hey telegram which stated “you are now on Harv, thanks.” I say “no problem.” I’m our list of umpires to work the California taking off my gear and I don’t want to State League.” I worked the California hear it. This guy walks up and he said, State League for three years then met “Young fellow, you worked a pretty good my wife there at the end of the first game.” And I said, “I’m glad you realized year and married her at the end of the it.” And I’m kicking em’ off and I’m really third year. mad. And this guy said, “Well, you have a minute to talk?” I said, “Not really, I told her before we got married, even what’s on your mind?” I’m teethed. The before we got engaged, that I’m on an guy hands me a card. He says, “my name eight-year program to make it to the is Mr. Murphy and I’m the head scout for major leagues. If I don’t have my foot in the Milwaukee Braves.” He continues and the door in eight years I will be out of asked, “Did you ever think about turning baseball. I wanted her to know that I professional?” I said, “yeah, I’ve written was in my second year then. She said 50 letters and I can’t get anybody to “OK.” And she understood and she said answer one. They want me to go to school “go for it big guy.” She’s always been in and I can’t afford it. I broke my leg and my corner; she’s done a great job. split the bone eight inches playing football at San Diego State and was in You have to realize that my average for cast for 27 weeks.” I noted that it took being home in San Diego, sleeping in my

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 8 own bed when the Padres moved here, did was you found a hotel that had a guy was nine nights a season. Nine nights in who loved baseball as a manager. And you seven months. Back then we used to go to worked deals. You know, I’ll get you spring training for 30 full days. Now they tickets while you’ll give me a cheaper rate only go for like 10 to 12, maybe 15 days. at your hotel. Before the Padres, when I was working in LA, my average was maybe three nights Anyway, to get back to my career, this at home because the only time I’d get guy got me the job and I was three years there was when I flew into San Diego, in the California League. I went from sleep over a night, pick up my family drive there to the . At the them to LA, she’d drive the kids back and beginning of the Pacific Coast League I’d hop an airplane and go on to San season I am at a meeting with the League Francisco. We couldn’t afford that $50 President and I told him that I am not flight for her to go up to San Francisco. looking for any special favors but I’m We couldn’t afford the extra it would newly married…I had been married like cost to keep her in a hotel up there. four months. As a result, the guy sent me to San Diego but one time the whole The one thing that I did promise her was season! the fact that any time that there was a special baseball event I would take her to the event assuming that I worked them. I Will Always Remember Bob My first two special events were the All- Gibson Star games in Cleveland and New York. In 1962 I will never forget…I had these We couldn’t afford those but after that two teeth knocked out by a she flew to all World Series’ and I flew pitch. It broke them off at the gum line, her first class, which back then didn’t and I spit them on the ground. Shag cost as much. It cost like $50 more to Crawford was umpiring with me, and he fly first class across the nation. came up to me about three innings later,

and my mouth bleeding like hell and I’m Well you have to remember when I signed just spitting blood, and he says “you got on in 1962 my salary was $7,000. I was blood on you!” I said “yes.” He said, getting along on $16 per day per diem. “What happened?” I said, “I lost two Per Diem pays all meals, hotel, cleaning, teeth.” He said “are you nuts?” I said, $2 a day to the clubhouse man, and taxi “No, they’re down there some place!” He cabs to and from the ballpark. So, you said, “What are you doing? Why don’t you had to stretch your per diem pretty hard go and have somebody look at it?” I said when you were in places like New York, “they can look at it after the ballgame.” and maybe Montreal. Most places like Gibson knocked ‘em out in the second Cincinnati and places like that you could inning, but I finished the ballgame. get a room fairly cheap. See, what you

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I went on and had a dentist look at them says on the other end “honey I’m at the and he said, “Well it’s going to take more hospital and I’m going to have your child.” work than this. You’re going to have to take time off.” I said “not in the world. You probably don’t realize when you read Just give me something to stop the about these guys playing today who leave bleeding.” He gave me a shot in the arm the ball clubs and go home for a week and with vitamin B and I went on my way. Two a half while their wife has children and months later they were infected and I such. In those days, no umpire was called the League office and I said, “I got allowed to go home for childbirth. So I two teeth that are broken in my face.” said to her, “well, God bless you baby.” They said “you can’t go home because Then I leave the room. I’m on codeine we’re sending Barlick home tomorrow in and infected. I’m still bleeding. I’m order for him to get ready to work the sticking on it every World Series.” Because he suffered a minute of every day. I’ve got the “Game heart attack a year and a half ago the of the Week” on national TV. It’s either League was going to make sure he was Digger O’Dell or Billy Pierce who is going rested. They told me I can’t leave. So, I for a 16th straight win for the Giants asked if was OK that I go see a dentist -- against Pittsburgh, and I’ve got the plate. I had paid for the last one. They said And, at the same time, my wife is having a “oh, yeah, sure.” baby, our first child. It was an interesting day. It goes down to a I go see the dentist and he said “here nothing to nothing and Smokey Burgess take this cotton” and he put it in there. was the for Pittsburgh. And he Well, I put the cotton there day in and came up with a guy on second base, and he day out. And it bled all over my chunked one over the ’s pillowcases in the hotel and I said “that’s head and it’s a one-nothing ball game. BS.” So I threw the cotton away and I stuffed chewing tobacco in there. And I So, I did my work that day. The codeine went to the end of the season this way, kept me in a kind of a happy attitude! and I remember September 15th. I received a call in the old Pittsburgher Hotel (I remember those old big skeleton Question: I know my work keys you used to have to carry, those big ethic. I have off days. I ones). Anyway, I remember I just came out and we’re doing a Saturday day game, have days when my mind is on and I locked the door and then the phone something else. As an umpire rang. I stopped and I run back in and I how do you concentrate day- got it just in time. It was one of those in, day-out? old big round black phones. And my wife

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Harvey. Very forcefully! I mean you just basketball. Baseball was the same thing. force yourself to concentrate. You have (He whistles) “No, he’s safe.” Same time, to understand something, too. You have I would tell them. They knew what that to understand that the difference meant; the foot hit the same time as the between a ball and a strike is the width glove was hit. So, you’re asking yourself of a pencil line. That’s the difference in “but how do you do it?” Because, I’m the mind’s eye of an umpire. You show a trained to do it! You have to understand pitch on TV and it looked like the exact that. I’m not just a guy on the lines that same pitch as the one before but is called has walked out and done it. differently. The difference between the two pitches is in the mind’s eye of an So, I say to you, you want a thrill, umpire. The width of a line, that’s it. volunteer to be an umpire. I’d like you to go just work the bases some day. Just go To call the play at first base is a do that. You’re going to love it. Try the magnificent endeavor because you have to slow-pitch stuff. You’ll love it. Ask my watch the ball come across the field…a son, he tried it! He said, “I’ve never seen good two-thirds of the way and, in the so many idiots in all my life.” meantime, while you are watching it you’re adjusting your position. You take a right The reason I got started at age 16 is angle from where that ball is thrown. You because we had that run-and-gun outfit want that right angle. If it’s thrown from that went to the semifinals of the shortstop you bounce up so that you are California State Championships…I played at a right angle to that ball when it center at 6-foot 2. But we would get the passes you. You take your eye off the ball, throw it out to the side court to ball, your computer up here (Harvey Babe Henry. I would head down the points to his head) says the ball is coming, other side of the court. Babe Henry the ball is coming, the ball is coming—it would hit Red coming across the middle should hit now, and you had that all in and I’d be there to either take a pass and your mind, and it’s happening. You go to give it back to Babe or lay it up. We the base and you watch the foot. If the would beat them to the other end foot hits the base before you hear the because of the fact that we were playing pop of the glove then the man is safe. in 75-foot gymnasiums which are now, what, 96-foot, and you had to beat them Doug Harvey had 27 years of down. If you didn’t, they would set up basketball...I took it right onto the the zone defense. Everything was on baseball field. Because in basketball it defense. At 6 foot 2, and 165 pounds, I was always down on one knee with (he could climb with anybody. imitates a referee’s whistle) “41, you’ve got him by the arm son…you can’t do that.” And that’s the way I’d referee

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Question: Baseball is full of since I became crew chief, I had lost less colorful nicknames. Could you games than any man probably in the history of the game. And I worked less share with us your nickname in double headers come August than any baseball and how it came crew had. So, you should pay attention to about? those things. Yes, I will work hard.

So I ask, “Is there a reason to call the Harvey. You know, normally, Andy, I game?” He said, “It’s going to rain wouldn’t do this. By the way, fellas, Andy tonight and it’s going to rain all night, but Strasburg is the gentleman that got me it should be fairly light. Tomorrow, it’s here today. He asked me to come down going to rain all night. It’s going to be and I told him I would. It takes five and fairly heavy. The next night you will not a half hours to drive down here and I come to the ballpark the way it’s looking have to drive back tomorrow morning now. We will call you at the hotel and it because we’re having a Super Bowl party. will be off.” And the Padres were leading I know what Andy speaks of. I was in their division. I think New York at the baseball 31 years and about the time was leading their division. But last…what was the year the Padres won anyway, I said, “No problem, we’re the first pennant…’84? I went until ‘92, working.” I’m working the plate that so it was over the last eight or nine years. night so I know we are going to get the

game in as long as a lightening storm They called me “God.” I’ve never spoken doesn’t start, believe me. like this to any other organization or even mentioned the fact that they did call me We get to the third or fourth inning. God, except for one time. Sports Two outs, nobody on base. Mookie Wilson Illustrated came out with a write-up and at the bat for New York. The pitch I did not give them the story, but the guy comes in, Mookie hits a one-hopper. Ka- on a sidebar wrote the story that they boom, high one-hopper. You had to know called Doug Harvey, “God.” And all of the Steve Garvey. Steve Garvey is playing players called me “God.” And, so for your first base. Well, Steve has to back up a idea of what was taking place, I’m going little bit and he’s got his hand out to the to tell you the true story on how my pitcher. Now, it’s 35 feet to the first nickname “God” came to be. base bag. He’s already got his hand out.

The ball hasn’t reached him yet. With his So, here we were in New York with the gesture he’s telling the pitcher, ‘forget it, Padres, it’s raining and I’m told that it I’ve got it.’ The pitcher is already would be hard to get this night’s game in. breaking toward first where he belongs I said, “you don’t understand, Frank for a toss, but stops. Garvey, meanwhile, (Cashin), I work every night to get games when he pushes off his back foot in the in, very hard.” If you look in the rolls

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 12 little bit of mud back there, slips and he Joe says he told him, “Yeah, the chief goes down to one knee…and now there checked it.” They always called me isn’t anyone to throw it to, because he’s “chief” because I’m half Indian. He said already told him I’ve got it, you know, ‘let the chief checked it. Down at the other Superman handle it.’ end of the bench, Terry Kennedy is taking off his gear and he’s got his chest And now of course, we’re in trouble, the protector and his shin guards in one hand umpires, not Garvey. So what happens? and he slammed them on the bench and The next guy up is Darryl Strawberry. said, “well, that doesn’t count, that son of First pitch downtown, Sadie Brown, bam, a bitch walks on water!” gone. First pitch. Right there, bang, hits it 90 miles. We get to the sixth inning So now we go from New York to Chicago and the Padres are still down 2 to 0 and it and we have a dear friend, Jerry starts raining hard. I called, “time out!” Holtzman…a great writer and honest. “Get the field covered” I tell the grounds When you told him something about a crew. By this time I’ve already repaired play, even if it was against the club, he the infield like eight times. We repaired wrote it exactly as you told him. That’s the infield 17 times that night to get the all we every asked of any writer. There nine innings in. But now it’s too much. I were only a few of them that we trusted said, “Cover it.” It’s getting a little slick to that extent. And so we were in around here and get it covered. I told Chicago and I’m out checking the field Country Joe West, great friend and great and making sure everything is going right guy, you make sure they get the cover on because I just worked the plate or with no problems and I’m going to go and whatever, and I’m watching. I go in and change some of my gear so I can get some nothing is said to me or anything. They dry shirts and stuff on. He says, “Sure said Holtzman came by, Harve, and said Harv.” Well, I’m in and I’m changing and to say hi to you. I said, that’s fine. The here comes Joe. He’s loud…he’s next morning I lift up the Tribune and raucous…he’s North Carolinian. He’s a hell there in huge, bold type, “God visits of a guy, but he comes in and he’s Chicago.” That’s how it started. So, laughing. The whole room just anyway, that’s the story. reverberates. “Joe, what’s so funny, son?” I ask. He said, Well I went and sat in the Padres’ dugout watching.” I said, Question: What is the quality “Oh Joe why did you sit in the Padres’ of today’s umpire and is there dugout for, for God’s sake, they’re mad at me right off the bat.” He said, No, any validity to the strikeout listen,” he said, “Garvey come in and said, controversy, and if so, what ‘Dad gummit, Joe, didn’t anybody think to do think? check the infield before this game?” And

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Harvey. TV and baseball itself is ruining Shulock was over sitting on the rail the game. That overhead camera that between innings talking up a storm to gives you shots. I told both presidents, some people over there. That’s not both of them, you people don’t seem to professional. He was wearing a cowboy understand. There’s a 17-inch-wide plate. gold belt buckle about that big (Harvey I went out for two straight years and I gestures with his fingers about four judged the umpires. They’re better than inches apart); it looked horrible to me. ever before. They are absolutely He gets the closest play in the world and outstanding. I sit behind home plate and he’s one of the guys, “yeah, he’s out.” Let I tell them, “I don’t care what you say, me tell you something, if you don’t SELL I’m here to judge the umpires, I’m going the play, I as a manager am coming out. to be working, I’m not here to enjoy your The only difference is, with an umpire damn game. I want to see the strike like him, he doesn’t believe in umpiring. zone.” His way, the cool way, is “if you come out, I’ll bury you.” That’s the way he umpired. I’ve had several scouts tell me that Well, I don’t approve of that. I think there’s no way, Harv, that you can sit up that every man has his right—any time I here and tell whether the guy’s missing had a close play, I assumed they’ll be out them or doing what’s right. I said, no on that. If they didn’t come out, I’d say, kidding, sit right here. Pitch would come you are some kind of idiot. You should in and as a catcher would catch it, I’d say, have been out on that one. So, when they “that’s a ball.” Next pitch, “That’s a came out, it wasn’t something I wasn’t strike.” Sitting 100 feet back, 120 feet expecting. And it didn’t bother me when back, I’m within 90 percent of calling they came out, except for one thing. If what the umpire is calling. I said, “don’t they get up like this (he places the palm tell me I can’t tell after 31 years here of his hand within an inch of his face), I’d plus four years in the minor leagues…a say, “You know you’re way too close...back total of 35 years…that I can’t tell what off or get out,” and they would back off! an umpire is doing in the way of a job.” Then I would go sit at the side for two I used common sense with everything I innings and watch his up and down did. Common sense will take you further movements, watching for height. I can in life than the greatest learning in the tell what the hell they are doing. I can world. Learning by doing is the greatest tell if they miss a play at first base from thing you can have in the world, in my back there. They are better than ever. opinion. My mother was the greatest worker I’ve ever seen in my life, and so I turned in two bad reports in two years. was my dad. Don’t get me wrong. My dad Horrible reports. One of them was on a carried ice for the Union Ice Company guy named Cousins and the other guy was for 22 years in downtown LA. I’ve seen Shulock, both in the American League. him take a 300-pound chunk of ice, take a

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 14 single bladed ice pick, and reduce it to 12 examples of what should be handed in of and a half pound sections in a matter of anybody I’ve ever seen.” I replied, “I no more than 5 minutes. He was great. appreciate it.” It was a big man, one of And then, the way he had to reduce it the owners. I talked to another owner was to put it in a gas fired chopper, chop after that and I asked him “did you guys it up, take it out, put it in a 100-pound get my application?” “No,” he said, “it was sack, take it up those stairs to the Elk’s never handed in.” Club. Great man. He never weighed over 170 pounds in his life. He was strong as a The umpire’s association, over 25 years bull. But the day I picked Dad up, I was ago, gave to President Chub Feeney the wrestling at the time, I picked him up right to take any umpire off the field, from behind. I was fooling around with send him to a fat farm as long as you pay him, and I broke his ribs. I knew then him. And not one president has ever done that he was getting older. it. Years and years have past. I asked Bill White, “Why don’t you do it? You complain about it!” He said, “oh no, I Question: You were a couldn’t do that.” What the hell are they physically fit person, what are doing as president? So, I don’t understand. Needless to say, I didn’t get your comments on the umpires the job. that are not exactly the picture of fitness? Joe Amalfitano came up to my wife and me at a function, I don’t even remember

what is was, and he said “you know Doug Harvey. Well, what are your comments will never get another job back in on ? He looks like hell all the baseball.” She said “why?” He said, “he’s time and he does a pretty good job, too honest and he’s too strong.” And doesn’t he? that’s the crime of it to me.

Question: Well, there’s hell Question: Can you talk about and then there’s pitiful. the first umpire’s strike when

Harvey: I know. I put in to be president all of the umpire’s wanted to of the when Coleman got strike about 20 years ago? it. I submitted a bio and an application. The guy I submitted it to called me on Harvey. 1963. I’m an original signer on the phone and said, “Harv, who wrote your the document that formed the bio and application?” I said, “I did both, association. It was the National League sir.” He said, “Those are the two finest Umpires Association. Now the reason we

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 15 did this, that we formed the Association, umpire in the major leagues and I can get umpires at the time were getting $100 a any of them. Hell, I’ll hire 20 postmen to year in retirement for every year of take your places.” service. When I retired at age 62 I would have gotten $3,100 a year in Well, everyone thinks that it’s easy. Let retirement. We asked them to better me tell you something. I can take any of our retirement because at the time we you folks out here with a decent were getting $1,500 a series for the background in baseball. I can teach you World Series and the losing players were to call balls and strikes, fair and foul, out realizing $18,000 each. We asked them and safe. Those are really important to raise that and they said ‘no’ to both parts of umpiring. It would take me suggestions. about six months, but I’ll build you up close to maybe triple A, double A, at At the time, I had to pay 50 percent of least. But let me tell you something, its our Blue Cross/Blue Shield costs. For the how you handle it when the shit hits the first two years that I was in the league, fan…that’s what makes a good major neither my wife nor I were covered with league umpire. Not how you are built. insurance because I couldn’t afford the Not one percent of you in this room here $75 a month that it cost us for our half has it within you to have a guy get in your of Blue Cross/Blue Shield. So, these face and scream his whole head off. were the things that we first took to them, and they said ‘no.’ What we told Let me tell you Doug Harvey’s rule of them is that we had better hear from you thumb: “Anytime they get personal, you’re in discussion before July 4. This was gone.” You come up and tell me, “Harvey, May 5. We picked July 4, Independence that was a horseshit call.” Fine, that was Day, intentionally. We knew that there your opinion of my call. The minute you were double headers across the board. walk up and you say, “Harvey, you’re Every place they were playing there were horseshit, you’re anything, you’re gone.” I double headers scheduled. We said if we won’t call you something, don’t you call me have to walk, we didn’t say we were going something. There was a man, Ray Perry to walk. We told them “if we do not hear was his name, in minor leagues, who from you by July 4, we will take action.” walked up and said, “you freaking hot That’s all we told them. And, they came dog.” And he’s gone! He said, “I didn’t around. curse you.” I said, “I won’t call you names, you don’t call me names.” The American League did not join us because Cronin told them, “you go ahead.” There’s a cute story. We had white He opened the drawer and said,” you see shirts in those days in the minor leagues. these,” and threw a sheaf of letters out Ray Perry came out and he was a tobacco on the desk. “These people all want to chewer. Every time he’d say, “oh,

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 16 bullshit.” And he would just talk absolutely is taken with the game. He slobbingly. So, I said to myself, you’ve hangs around all the time. He’s an astute got to get to this guy. I’m at second base gentleman and learns quickly. I think he’ll and I’ve got a close play and out comes be great.” Ray Perry. Ray said, “Bullshit.” And I said, “Ray, let me tell you something.” Oh, I said, “Well, like everyone else, I’ll give he stopped right away. I said, “I’m going him a chance.” My opinion: he was the to look down at my shirt, and if there are best baseball man to ever come down the ANY tobacco stains on my white shirt, runway. The first thing he did was walk I’m going to eject you.” I looked down at in and hold a meeting with his crew chiefs my shirt knowing full well that I was a and tell all of us, “you go back to the tobacco chewer and I’d been spitting all three members of your crew and you tell day and there were some little ticks down them, I am going to back the umpires. there. I knew they were there, but I had You are my police force. When you start him loaded. I looked down at my shirt. getting overbearing, I will come down on When I looked up and started to go like you hard. But if you can show me common this, all I saw was his butt and his elbows sense, decency, the way to run a game, going around the end of the dugout. He hardboiled but with good sense, I’ll back ejected himself! you to the hilt.”

And he did that marvelously and he was Question: The rules are clear terrific about it. When he nailed Pete on the repercussions of major Rose I was in Cincinnati. I wish I had saved the newspaper accounts of it gambling on baseball, so what’s because there was a lot of things there your opinion of Pete Rose’s that were not released to the rest of the lifetime banishment? United States. Right off the bat they had his signature on these “over and

unders” they call them. I come out as a Harvey. In the first place, let me tell gambler and I set the rate and I see you something. Mr. Bart Giamatti was the Cincinnati is playing Pittsburgh today. gentleman that nailed Pete. When Bart Cincinnati has beaten Pittsburgh three was assigned the president’s job, I saw out of four games this year, Cincinnati’s Bobby Brown, American League President. got the “Big Red Machine,” everybody is And I said, “Bobby, what makes a healthy…we’ll put this Cincinnati minus professor emeritus a logical contender to four. They expect them to beat be the president of a baseball league?” Pittsburgh by four runs that day. Pete The man is head of Yale University or Rose would go down and bet that they Harvard one of them. He said, “all I know don’t beat them by four runs. Betting on is that the guy loves the game. He’s written several books on it. He

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 17 his team. We’ll bet on it, but the come is Wouldn’t you have hired a lawyer? Would not going to make it. you have signed what he had signed? I think Pete Rose, eventually because of his Or, he might bet knowing more about the numbers, may be the first man ever pitcher that’s going to be in against him. forgiven who was kicked out of baseball He adjusted his lineup to go against that for life. But he is going to have to serve pitcher. He would have a three-run lead a penance. and a couple of men on base with two outs and he’d tell his pitcher, “You’re worn out.” He’d put in a pinch hitter that he Question: Back to your earlier knows can’t hit that relief pitcher out days in the major leagues, the there. The guy strikes out with a man on second and third. Then he puts in a new infamous balk controversy of pitcher, the guy gives up one run and Pete the 1960s. Can you talk about wins his bet. That was the danger. That how that came about? was the fallacy of Pete. Pete Rose had a horrible gambling habit, according to all Harvey. 1962. had gripes news reports. from the ball clubs about . And they

said, “they’re not stopping, they’re not I was at a racetrack outside of stopping.” Cincinnati…and I’m not a racetrack fan.

One of my umpires said there’s nothing Here’s the way they used to pitch. If going on, it’s an off day, come on we’ll go you’re in a car and I get you out there in out there and have dinner. I’m a $2 the parking lot and I say “go forward,” better. I go out and bet $2 on a horse. I and you get going five miles an hour, and I go out there and I’m betting $2 and I say “now go backwards,” you can’t just go hear over here, “seven, seven, and seven backwards. Even though you may not on number 4.” I thought, “what the hell, even hit the brakes, just take from one that is Pete Rose!” The guy would punch gear to another, you stop the impetus them out and Pete Rose, goes $700, forward and you start backwards, $700, and $700--$2,100--on one horse correct? What have you done? You for one race. Now, don’t tell me that that basically had to stop. Somewhere in isn’t a sickness. This is my own judgment there, there’s the stop of action. The of what I’d seen. No one bets $2,100 on motion to where there is nothing going one horse to win, place, and show. That’s forward with impetus. That was our idea just not done. of a halt.

The man had a problem. Had you not So Giles said, “no, we want a full second’s been guilty and the Commissioner set you stop.” All right now, what’s a full second? down for life, what would you have done? Here’s a guy who used to referee

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 18 basketball. Ten seconds to get across guy walks up from the other team and court, ten seconds to shoot the free drills the guy. “Alright, that’s a warning throw. “One thousand one”…that’s a full for you.” Well by then you had a fist second. One thousand one…it wasn’t fight. So, what do you do? They said, happening. You’re making a definite stop, “Now if a guy drills a guy, you tell him, ‘no but it’s not “one thousand and one.” He more.’ You are going if it happens again, said, “I want it according to the rule and you’re going too, Mr. Manager, if your book.” The rule book stated “one pitcher does it.” Well, they say, “yeah,” thousand one”…a full second. So, we hit but that’s weak. Come up with a better them with 61 balks in three and a half rule if you don’t like it, that’s my opinion. weeks. And they decided it wasn’t worth Because at least it stopped them from it. throwing at each other, basically. But it takes an umpire with guts to call that! It was 1962, because I go up to San Francisco, I have my first plate job. And, they make two changes that year. So I Question: I did want to get Billy Pierce pitching. He looks in, he mention that SABR has an winds it up, he comes in with the first pitch of the game. I said, “Strike one.” umpire rules committee among comes down from first base, their various committees and “hold it, hold it.” He could knock that wall they do both the top umpires down with his voice. I say to myself, of the century, with Doug “What the hell have I done, it’s my first call in major leagues and it’s a ball.” Well Harvey is at number 2 in the the other part of the rule was that you survey. couldn’t lift your foot. You had to put it in there, and you had to spin on it. In Harvey. Who the hell was number one? those days, they didn’t wear the nub I’m as good as in case you’re shoes. You put a pair of spikes on, put interested. your foot on a rubber, and try and spin on it. You can’t do it, it’s impossible. But those were the typical calls that they Question: Lee Gutkind wrote a were insisting on. It isn’t anything to do with what is wrong with the umpires. book in the 70s.

They talked about the rule of throwing at Harvey. The Best Seat in Baseball, but people. Back in the 60s they would throw You Have to Stand: The Game As Umpires at a batter and you’d say, “alright that’s a See It. warning. If you do it again, I’ll eject you.” So, you go on and in the next inning the

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Question: My understanding sorts of things said (i.e., in the locker from reading the preface is room). I think we get carried away and think you can use free speech for that your crew did not like the anything you want to say outside, too. I book. think that’s what that kid, Rocker, did. But I don’t condone the writers and Harvey. Did not like it? I went through people who are condemning this kid. I it and I get 12 typewritten pages of just know it happens. You say things innuendos and lies. I took it to the amongst you as men that you basically Umpires’ Association. It would have would never say in public. Umpires are taken me $25,000 to stop the dispersal the same way. of the book. $25,000 is what it would cost upfront…then go to court. I didn’t The year that that book was written, I have $25,000. The Umpires’ Association had Art Williams, I had Harry was trying to kick me out of baseball Wendelstedt, and I had Colosi—Italian, because of the book. German, and Black. And me…half Indian. They are the ones who started calling me I told the league office, don’t let this “chief.” Well, they started on me as man Gutkind in our dressing room. He chief, and I called Wendelstedt “Herr came down and said, “I’m supposed to sit Vindlestedt.” We called Colosi, “Waffle,” in the umpires’ dressing room.” I said, and we called Williams, “hey, fella,” “Not tonight.” He said, “Please contact because “we don’t want to call you ‘boy.’” the office. I thought they would have That’s the way you talk with these guys. contacted you.” So I called the league You talk with each other every place you office and asked, “What the hell is going go. You eat with each other. You sleep in on?” Their response was, “Doug, I’ve hotels with each other. You are with checked this guy out. He’s marvelous, he these guys for six straight months and loves baseball, he’s going to do a great you get to where you know each other like book.” brothers. I can say anything I want to my brother. I mean I can tell my brother Well, he didn’t. He slit throats right and things I couldn’t tell others because of left. our relationship. And he’ll tell me, “I’ll kick your tail, I’ll punch you out,” which he In baseball, one of the things that I’m a always could as a young fella. little upset about is how people are written about. Take, for example, the But, you can’t do that anymore. It’s a gentleman in Atlanta, the pitcher, John different world now. As an umpire and Rocker. I’m upset because in baseball player you travel with the same people. circles, whether it is with a team of And you are with them for every night umpires or with players, there are all

“BASEBALL RAMBLINGS” A Discussion with Doug Harvey San Diego Ted Williams SABR Chapter January 29, 2000 Page 20 for six or seven months, including spring training. You’re not around your family.

My wife, after I’d be home for maybe three weeks, she would say, “Doug, you’re not with the fellas now.” She would say that because I’d use curse words up a storm…that’s the way you talk in the dressing room. I mean it’s every second of every minute…that is, unless you’re a ball player in a game and you walk up to an umpire…then you don’t use those words!

END