Fourth Session, 40th Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(HANSARD)

Th ursday, July 16, 2015 Morning Sitting Volume 28, Number 2

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 0709-1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC

Fourth Session, 40th Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL

Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing ...... Hon. Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education ...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture ...... Hon. Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development ...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review ...... Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment ...... Hon. Minister of Finance ...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Steve Th omson Minister of Health ...... Hon. Dr. Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacifi c Strategy and Multiculturalism ...... Hon. Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour ...... Hon. Minister of State for Tourism and Small Business ...... Hon. Minister of Justice ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation...... Hon. Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services ...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure ...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ...... John Horgan Deputy Speaker ...... Douglas Horne Assistant Deputy Speaker ...... Raj Chouhan Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees ...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk ...... Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ...... Gary Lenz ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING

Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Fraserview Abbotsford-Mission ...... Simon Gibson Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal)...... Penticton Abbotsford South ...... Dr. Darryl Plecas Austin, Robin (NDP) ...... Skeena Abbotsford West ...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Bains, Harry (NDP) ...... Surrey-Newton Alberni–Pacifi c Rim ...... Scott Fraser Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Boundary-Similkameen ...... Linda Larson Bennett, Hon. Bill (BC Liberal) ...... Kootenay East Burnaby–Deer Lake ...... Kathy Corrigan Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds ...... Raj Chouhan Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal) ...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Burnaby-Lougheed ...... Jane Jae Kyung Shin Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby North ...... Richard T. Lee Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Cariboo-Chilcotin ...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ...... Vancouver–West End Cariboo North ...... Hon. Coralee Oakes Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack ...... John Martin Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal) ...... Westside-Kelowna Chilliwack-Hope ...... Laurie Th roness Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal) ...... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Columbia River–Revelstoke ...... Norm Macdonald Conroy, Katrine (NDP) ...... Kootenay West Comox Valley...... Don McRae Corrigan, Kathy (NDP) ...... Burnaby–Deer Lake Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ...... Douglas Horne Dalton, Marc (Ind.) ...... Maple Ridge–Mission Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Selina Robinson Darcy, Judy (NDP) ...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley ...... Bill Routley de Jong, Hon. Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford West Delta North ...... Wm. Scott Hamilton Dix, Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Delta South...... Vicki Huntington Donaldson, Doug (NDP) ...... Stikine Esquimalt–Royal Roads ...... Maurine Karagianis Eby, David (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Point Grey Fort Langley–Aldergrove ...... Hon. Rich Coleman Elmore, Mable (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kensington Fraser-Nicola...... Jackie Tegart Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...... Port Coquitlam Juan de Fuca ...... John Horgan Fassbender, Hon. Peter (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Fleetwood Kamloops–North Th ompson ...... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Fleming, Rob (NDP) ...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kamloops–South Th ompson ...... Hon. Todd Stone Foster, Eric (BC Liberal) ...... Vernon-Monashee Kelowna–Lake Country ...... Hon. Norm Letnick Fraser, Scott (NDP) ...... Alberni–Pacifi c Rim Kelowna-Mission ...... Hon. Steve Th omson Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Kootenay East ...... Hon. Bill Bennett Hamilton, Wm. Scott (BC Liberal) ...... Delta North Kootenay West ...... Katrine Conroy Hammell, Sue (NDP) ...... Surrey–Green Timbers Langley...... Hon. Mary Polak Heyman, George (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Mission ...... Marc Dalton Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey–White Rock Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ...... Dr. Doug Bing Holman, Gary (NDP) ...... Saanich North and the Islands Nanaimo ...... Leonard Eugene Krog Horgan, John (NDP) ...... Juan de Fuca Nanaimo–North Cowichan ...... Doug Routley Horne, Douglas (BC Liberal) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Nechako Lakes ...... Hon. John Rustad Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Panorama Nelson-Creston ...... Michelle Mungall Huntington, Vicki (Ind.) ...... Delta South New Westminster ...... Judy Darcy James, Carole (NDP) ...... Victoria–Beacon Hill North Coast...... Jennifer Rice Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ...... Esquimalt–Royal Roads North Island ...... Claire Trevena Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) ...... Nanaimo North Vancouver–Lonsdale ...... Hon. Naomi Yamamoto Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal) ...... Shuswap North Vancouver–Seymour ...... Jane Th ornthwaite Lake, Hon. Dr. Terry (BC Liberal) ...... Kamloops–North Th ompson Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Boundary-Similkameen Parksville-Qualicum ...... Hon. Michelle Stilwell Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal) ...... Burnaby North Peace River North ...... Pat Pimm Letnick, Hon. Norm (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna–Lake Country Peace River South ...... Macdonald, Norm (NDP) ...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Penticton...... Dan Ashton McRae, Don (BC Liberal) ...... Comox Valley Port Coquitlam ...... Mike Farnworth Martin, John (BC Liberal) ...... Chilliwack Port Moody–Coquitlam ...... Linda Reimer Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...... Nicholas Simons Mungall, Michelle (NDP) ...... Nelson-Creston Prince George–Mackenzie ...... Oakes, Hon. Coralee (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo North Prince George–Valemount ...... Hon. Shirley Bond Pimm, Pat (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River North Richmond Centre ...... Hon. Teresa Wat Plecas, Dr. Darryl (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford South Richmond East ...... Hon. Linda Reid Polak, Hon. Mary (BC Liberal) ...... Langley Richmond-Steveston ...... Popham, Lana (NDP) ...... Saanich South Saanich North and the Islands ...... Gary Holman Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Saanich South ...... Lana Popham Reid, Hon. Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond East Shuswap ...... Greg Kyllo Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Skeena ...... Robin Austin Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ...... North Coast Stikine ...... Doug Donaldson Robinson, Selina (NDP) ...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Routley, Bill (NDP) ...... Cowichan Valley Surrey-Fleetwood ...... Hon. Peter Fassbender Routley, Doug (NDP) ...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey–Green Timbers ...... Sue Hammell Rustad, Hon. John (BC Liberal) ...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Newton ...... Harry Bains Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Lougheed Surrey-Panorama ...... Marvin Hunt Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey-Tynehead ...... Hon. Amrik Virk Simpson, Shane (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey-Whalley...... Stilwell, Hon. Michelle (BC Liberal)...... Parksville-Qualicum Surrey–White Rock ...... Gordon Hogg Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Langara Vancouver-Fairview ...... George Heyman Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal) ...... Kamloops–South Th ompson Vancouver–False Creek ...... Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal) ...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. Suzanne Anton Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Hastings ...... Shane Simpson Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Kensington ...... Mable Elmore Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver-Kingsway...... Adrian Dix Th omson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver-Langara ...... Dr. Th ornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ...... Vacant Th roness, Laurie (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack-Hope Vancouver–Point Grey ...... David Eby Trevena, Claire (NDP) ...... North Island Vancouver-Quilchena ...... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Tynehead Vancouver–West End ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond Centre Vernon-Monashee ...... Eric Foster Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Victoria–Beacon Hill ...... Carole James Wilkinson, Hon. Andrew (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Quilchena Victoria–Swan Lake...... Rob Fleming Yamamoto, Hon. Naomi (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale West Vancouver–Capilano ...... Yap, John (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond-Steveston West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ...... Vacant ...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Westside-Kelowna ...... Hon. Christy Clark

Party Standings: BC Liberal 48; New Democratic 33; Independent 3; Vacant 1

CONTENTS

Th ursday, July 16, 2015 Morning Sitting

Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members ...... 9035

Tributes ...... 9036 Rod Deacon M. Dalton

Introductions by Members ...... 9036

Introduction and First Reading of Bills ...... 9036 Bill M226 — Protecting Our Lakes and Economy from Invasive Species Act, 2015 S. Chandra Herbert Bill M227 — Land Title Amendment Act, 2015 A. Weaver

Statements (Standing Order 25B) ...... 9037 Emergency preparedness volunteers C. Trevena Hops cultivation in Fraser Valley J. Martin Kids for Charity D. Eby Spallumcheen G. Kyllo Paddle for the Peace L. Popham Queen Elizabeth Park Moira Stilwell

Oral Questions ...... 9040 Children and Family Development Ministry handling of child placement case and court orders J. Horgan Hon. S. Cadieux D. Donaldson C. James Adoption plan for child in care N. Simons Hon. S. Cadieux Aff ordable housing and Metro Vancouver housing market A. Weaver Hon. M. de Jong Health Ministry investigation L. Krog Hon. T. Lake A. Dix

Petitions ...... 9045 M. Mungall

Orders of the Day

Committee of the Whole House ...... 9045 Bill 30 — Liquefi ed Natural Gas Project Agreements Act B. Ralston Hon. M. de Jong A. Weaver

9035

THURSDAY, JULY 16, 2015 workforce accommodation for resource development projects. Th ey have their headquarters and manufactur- Th e House met at 10:03 a.m. ing on the Tk’emlups First Nation industrial park and another location in the city of Kamloops. [Madame Speaker in the chair.] Th eir camp accommodations have all the amenities of a hotel, including executive chef–prepared meals, in- Routine Business house entertainment centres and fi tness centre. Horizon North is one of the largest employers in Kamloops, with Prayers. around 500 workers, including 100 skilled-trades ap- prentices. Th ey employ close to 800 workers throughout Introductions by Members British Columbia. Th ey are one of the companies situated in the inter- Hon. R. Coleman: We’re joined in the House today by ior of British Columbia that stands to benefi t, creating two members of the LNG alliance: the president, David well-paying, family-supporting jobs as a result of British Keane, and the director of communications, Jas Johal. Columbia’s LNG opportunity. Th ey already have plans David and I met a few years ago when we fi rst started underway in Kitimat, Prince Rupert and Port Edward. talking about LNG in British Columbia. He was with They’re very interested in hearing the debate around BG at the time and was one of the people to help educate Bill 30 here today. I hope the members of the House will and teach us a little bit about this burgeoning industry please help me in welcoming Rod Graham and Doug for British Columbia. Berger from Horizon North. Of course, Jas Johal is no stranger to us that were on the other side of the camera a few times, with Jas asking J. Darcy: It gives me great pleasure to welcome to the the questions. He has now, as a director of communi- precinct today — I don’t know if they’re in the House yet, cations, been the voice of, frankly, the education of the but I know that they will be in the precinct today — two public on behalf of the LNG industry as we pursue this prominent physician leaders in the province of British $36 billion, 4,500-job investment for British Columbia Columbia: Dr. Alan Ruddiman, the co-chair of the Joint and other opportunities. Would the House please make Standing Committee on Rural Issues and the president- them welcome. elect of the Doctors of B.C., in a recent hard-fought election; and Dr. Granger Avery, who is the executive K. Corrigan: It gives me a great deal of pleasure to wel- director of the Rural Coordination Centre of B.C. and come to the House my good friend Anne Kang, a Burnaby the president-elect of the Canadian Medical Association. city councillor, who is here to spend the day hanging Th ey’re here to talk about rural health issues and doc- around in the precinct and watching question period and tors in rural B.C. Would the House please join me in so on. I hope that you will make her very welcome. welcoming these prominent physician leaders to the Legislative Assembly today. Hon. M. Polak: Today in the gallery we are joined by Tom Pedersen and his 18-year-old son David. Tom Hon. P. Fassbender: All of us take pleasure when we is the executive director of Pacifi c Institute for Climate can introduce people in the House that are close to us, Solutions at the University of Victoria and also a valuable and I’m delighted today to welcome my much older and, member of the province’s climate leadership team. Would he tells me, wiser brother, Joe Fecht, and his wife, Eileen the House please make him welcome. Ford, who are here from Ontario, and the most import- [1005] ant person in my life: my wife, Charlene. I ask the mem- bers to make them feel especially welcome. D. Eby: It’s not too oft en that a constituent makes the trek across the water, so it’s a always a pleasure to say hi. A. Weaver: It gives me great pleasure to introduce Margot Sangster is a dedicated human rights advocate. fi ve family members visiting the precinct from Toulouse, She’s just back from Afghanistan where she was working France: my brother, Anthony Weaver, who the Minister with the workforce development program there. Would of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations will the House please join me in welcoming her here and back remember well from the 1985 Crimson Tide Caribbean to British Columbia. rugby tour; his partner, Laurence Peugot; their children, Helene Weaver, Paul Weaver and Nicholas Weaver; and, Hon. T. Lake: I, along with the Minister of in addition, their friend Th eotim Martin. Would the Transportation, would like to introduce Rod Graham House please make them feel very welcome. and Doug Berger from Horizon North, joining us in the gallery today. Horizon North is a manufacturing Hon. A. Virk: It’s indeed my pleasure to introduce in and logistics company that provides world-class mobile the House today for their fi rst time two individuals, seat- 9036 British Columbia Debates Thursday, July 16, 2015

ed right up there, who I’ve gotten to know very recently. a heart attack two days aft er the last session ended. Many First, a young woman who worked as an intern in my of- of us knew Rod. He worked alongside B.C. Liberal mem- fi ce for the last six weeks. She’s from Fort St. John and is bers as a communications and research assistant. He also headed to UNBC to continue her studies in political sci- spent many years working in public aff airs. ence this fall — Nakisha Bauer. Rod began his career in journalism and in politics Secondly, sitting next to her, a young woman who’s during the 1980s when he was a correspondent on only been in my offi ce for the last week, who’s jumped Parliament Hill with the Th omson chain of newspapers. right into this legislative week as a student at SFU in pol- Rod was a positive, outgoing, cheerful soul, who had itical science and having grown up in New Westminster. many stories to tell from his days growing up in Hudson, I can speak for everyone in my office. We’re looking Quebec until recent. He also had a passion for details forward to having her here until the end of August — and record-keeping on many issues, including decades of Meghan Malkowich. notes on the minutiae of his life, such as all of the times I ask everyone to join me in making them feel welcome. he mowed his lawn and the direction that he mowed or every haircut he had since the 1970s. In early pictures I B. Routley: It is my pleasure this morning to intro- saw of him he had very long hair, so I don’t imagine he duce to this House a family visiting from Mexico and had many haircuts then. In the past couple of decades, Arizona: the Elizaldes, Alex and Lourdes; their daugh- he’s been relatively bald, so maybe it was something that ters, Ayleen and Tessy. was very special to him. [1010] Rod also loved dogs and was the president of the dog Th ey’re accompanied by folks that live right here in club in Saanich. I want to express my condolences to Victoria — a friend of mine, Dara Quast, and her parents, his partner, Marilyn Clayton, his friends, family and Regina and Rob Robson. Please join me in welcoming all those who knew Rod and cared about him. He’ll be them to this legislative House. sorely missed.

J. Tegart: I’m very pleased to welcome two con- Introductions by Members stituents of mine, who live in Ashcroft and are visiting Victoria and whom I’ve known since high school, which M. Hunt: It’s with great pride and joy that I would was just a short time ago. Would the House please wel- like to introduce to the Legislature one of the newest come Barry and Sheila Corneillie to the precinct. residents of this wonderful province of ours. With the slight hints of red hair of her father, they have called her A. Weaver: I, too, wanted to join the Minister of Arbutus Krista Hunt. She came in on July 15 at 7 pounds, Environment in welcoming Tom Pedersen and his son, 15 ounces, and I would like the House to make her wel- David Pedersen, to the offi ce. Tom Pedersen is a long- come to the province of British Columbia. time friend and colleague that I’ve known since the early 1980s in his time as a professor at UBC when I was a grad Introduction and student there. Would the House please again make them First Reading of Bills feel very welcome. BILL M226 — PROTECTING OUR LAKES P. Pimm: I, too, would like to rise today and welcome AND ECONOMY FROM INVASIVE a constituent of mine, Nakisha Bauer. Her parents have SPECIES ACT, 2015 been long-time friends of myself and our family. Nakisha is an extremely strong young lady. She also has gone S. Chandra Herbert presented a bill intituled Protecting through what I went through. She’s gone through cancer. Our Lakes and Economy from Invasive Species Act, 2015. She’s a survivor. It has made her stronger. I want to say that she is a very, very strong young lady that will go far S. Chandra Herbert: I would like to move a bill inti- and to many places in this world. tuled Protecting Our Lakes and Economy from Invasive Nakisha, welcome to this House. Species Act for fi rst reading now. I would like everybody to help me welcome her. Motion approved. Tributes S. Chandra Herbert: Imagine our lakesides covered in ROD DEACON mussels so sharp that no one can sit on the beaches. Our freshwater fi shery disappearing because there was no M. Dalton: It’s with great sadness that I announce the longer food in the water for the fi sh. Th ink of our water passing of Rod Deacon. Rod was my legislative assistant, systems, our hydro infrastructure and other key critical and an excellent one at that. He died very unexpectedly of infrastructure to our economy becoming so clogged with Thursday, July 16, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9037

mussels they can no longer function. It’s with this in mind that I bring this bill forward today. What would that do to our economy? What would Th e bill amends the Land Title Act to provide the govern- that do to our communities? It would be devastating. ment with the means of determining who is purchasing Th is is not a nightmare. Th is is what will come to British property in B.C. Th is includes determining both foreign Columbia unless we take the threat seriously. investment fl ows, the role that corporations are playing Other provinces take the threat of invasive aquatic spe- in purchasing property and if we have signifi cant specu- cies much more seriously than we do and have institut- lation coming from other places in Canada. ed mandatory border checks on all borders to stop boats To be clear, this bill is not about identifying what spe- carrying these species into their provinces. cifi cally is driving housing prices to unsustainable rates [1015] but, rather, to ensure that government is informing itself Meanwhile, the gaps in our defences are so wide so that any future policy measures are based on a better that it’s not a matter of if a boat carrying invasives gets understanding of what is happening with our provincial through; it’s a matter of when, unless we act now. real estate industry. Th e Okanagan water board estimates the cost to B.C. I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the of invasive species like zebra and quagga mussels to be day for second reading at the next sitting of the House $43 million each and every year just to slow the spread aft er today. of those mussels. As Manitoba has learned, once they are in your waterways, you cannot get them out. Bill M227, Land Title Amendment Act, 2015, intro- Th is act will enhance the detection, suppression, elim- duced, read a fi rst time and ordered to be placed on or- ination and prevention of the spread of invasive species ders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of in B.C. It will ensure mandatory border checks and a the House aft er today. strong enforcement regime to ensure our province is se- cure. If we are truly to live up to our provincial motto of Statements “Splendour without diminishment,” then we must act now. (Standing Order 25B) I ask members for their support. I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS VOLUNTEERS for second reading at the next sitting aft er today. C. Trevena: In every community it’s volunteers that Bill M226, Protecting Our Lakes and Economy from make things happen, bringing together people and get- Invasive Species Act, 2015, introduced, read a fi rst time ting jobs done. Perhaps the forest fi res that are blazing and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second across our province have highlighted the vital work of reading at the next sitting of the House aft er today. those who are tirelessly dealing with emergency pre- paredness — draft ing plans, working on the evacuation BILL M227 — LAND TITLE of neighbourhoods, ensuring that everyone knows what AMENDMENT ACT, 2015 to do in the event of fi res encroaching on their homes and ensuring there’s food and water for families. Th is is A. Weaver presented a bill intituled Land Title not easy, and it’s the volunteers that do it. Amendment Act, 2015. In Port Hardy when the Tsulquate fi re was raging, two streets were evacuated. Dozens of people moved to the A. Weaver: It’s with great pleasure that I move intro- community centre for safety, for a place to sleep and for duction of a bill intituled Land Title Amendment Act, meals. Th e plan drawn up fell into place smoothly. People 2015. knew what to do and where to go, and the community turned out to provide home-cooked foods. Bannock and Motion approved. soup and sandwiches fl owed for those who’d left their homes and for those out fi ghting the fi res. A. Weaver: I’m pleased to be introducing a bill that Volunteers working on emergency preparedness also off ers government one of the tools it needs to begin to get the plans together for what could happen in the event properly assess and act upon the aff ordability and hous- of an earthquake or a tsunami, a disaster that could ing crisis aff ecting Metro Vancouver and emerging here leave many dozens, if not hundreds, of people homeless in the capital regional district. and communities potentially isolated. Th ere’s oft en a Th ere’s been signifi cant conversation in the past few tight-knit command structure and delegation to neigh- months about the role that speculation is playing in our bourhood teams. Th ere’s a constant eff ort to inform the market. Th e government came out with a number of community members of what to do, how to prepare and documents purporting that foreign investment wasn’t a where to go. factor. Th ese studies were vague and lacked any links to A couple of months ago there was a day-long public clear, rigorous evidence that supported the claim. information session by Quadra Island’s emergency pre- 9038 British Columbia Debates Thursday, July 16, 2015

paredness team that attracted people from right around I’m proud of the courage these local agricultural busi- the region. Lots of useful information. But unfortunately ness leaders have shown, and I’m looking forward to fi nd- for the volunteers, to share that information they have to ing new ways to support and promote the growth of the pay for it. Sure, the provincial government does provide hops industry. Th e resurgence of hop production in the pamphlets and posters but only as a PDF. Th en it’s the Chilliwack area is a further testament to the diversifi ed volunteers who have to download and pay for printing agricultural sector so important to the local economy. and reproduction. Th ey asked me where the money is going to come from KIDS FOR CHARITY — they are, aft er all, volunteers — in small communities, where there’s fundraising for PACs, for child care centres, D. Eby: Kids for Charity started because Iva Jankovic for health centres and for community events and now to believed there weren’t enough aff ordable arts programs ensure community safety. Volunteers who are working in her neighbourhood. So two years ago, and though she on community safety and emergency preparedness are was only 13 years old, she initiated a weekly meet-up for asking: “How much downloading can there be?” When it comes to public safety, it seems there’s simply too much. elementary school kids in the University Neighbourhood [1020] area to do arts and craft s together. Not only was the arts meet-up free for participants, the HOPS CULTIVATION IN FRASER VALLEY kids sold their handmade holiday cards and donated all the money they made to charities. It was a great success. J. Martin: As we know, agriculture has long been a Suddenly, the group, made up primarily of young people signifi cant fi xture throughout the Fraser Valley, and no- between eight and 12 years old, realized they needed a where is this more the case than in my own riding of new name. Th ey called themselves Kids for Charity. Chilliwack. Now it would appear there’s a new industry Starting with bake sales and portrait painting, Kids re-emerging in the area: hops. for Charity supported local projects like the Norma Th at’s right. Hops are on the comeback. Th ese are the Rose Point School playground. Th ey also built strong small cones that give beer its bitterness, its distinct aro- community support in partnership with the University ma and its fl avour. As the popularity of local craft beer Neighbourhoods Association and the Old Barn in British Columbia is on the rise, so too is the produc- Community Centre. tion of local hops. Last year Iva was unexpectedly admitted to B.C. Once a dominant crop in the Fraser Valley in the 1940s, Children’s Hospital. During the week she was there, she the Chilliwack Museum says B.C. was home to the largest hop-growing area in the British Commonwealth. Many saw fi rsthand the dedication of the doctors, nurses and in this chamber might remember, back in the day, driv- volunteers, who all try to make their patients as comfort- ing on Highway 1, east through Chilliwack and beyond, able as possible. Fully recovered and inspired, she left the and seeing miles and miles and rows and rows of hops. hospital with a new mission: to raise funds for the B.C. Well, times changed, and market adjustments in the Children’s Hospital. ’90s drastically impacted this industry. However, a num- Kids for Charity went full speed ahead with fundrais- ber of visionaries in Chilliwack and the Columbia Valley ing, including an animation workshop, a sidewalk chalk are working toward its resurgence. Already the Sartori art exhibition and neighbourhood deeds for donations, Cedar Ranch and Chilliwack Hop Farms are seeing great such as washing cars, watering plants, fi sh-sitting and success. washing gates and fences. Chris Sartori’s hops are exactly what Molson Coors Most recently Kids for Charity had a 12-runner team was looking for when they decided to recreate their ori- in the fi ve-kilometre child run, raising $1,000 for the ginal iconic brew. Victoria’s Drift wood Brewery also pro- hospital. Running were Sean Choi; Mateo Fiuza; Morris duces a limited amount of wet hop beer known as New Ling; Iva, Vuk and Dar Jankovic; Sonia and Felix Mann; Growth Pale Ale using fresh Centennial and Newport Anna Arr; Th omas and Forrest Van Alstine; and Gregory hops from Sartori’s farms. Zhdanovich. Rick Knight, John Lawrence and Andrew Adams of Th eir next major event will be a bike parade around Chilliwack Hop Farms have started producing a fi ne selection of Centennial, Magnum, Mount Hood and UBC where the participants will compete for prizes by Nugget hop varieties that have found their way into pro- fundraising, and voters will donate to vote for their fa- duction at Surrey’s Russell Brewing and other places. vourite decorated bike. It will take place on August 29 at Th ese hop producers are fast becoming popular with the UNA’s Old Barn Community Centre. I hope every- homebrew, microbrew and brewpub communities that body can make it. are always on the lookout for something special, sea- Th ank you, Iva, and all the Kids for Charity for work- sonal and unique. ing together to make a diff erence in our community. Thursday, July 16, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9039

SPALLUMCHEEN drink from the Peace, you will always come back.” As I sipped the water, I imagined how devastating it would be G. Kyllo: I’m thrilled to take this opportunity to- to return to the Peace if the fl ooding went ahead. day to speak briefl y about a unique community in the When we reached the takeout, we were drummed Shuswap riding, Spallumcheen. It’s almost as diffi cult for in by a dozen First Nations drummers. Th en came the outsiders to pronounce as it is to spell. Th e township of speeches. Grand Chief Stewart Phillip’s and Chief Bob Spallumcheen is unique because its land area completely Chamberlin’s words were clear: the fl ooding would be surrounds the city of Armstrong. stopped. David Suzuki spoke and talked about the eco- Incorporated in 1892, Spallumcheen is also the oldest logical goods and services that the free-fl owing river rural community in the southern interior and the lar- provides, something irreplaceable. Richard Bullock, the gest in physical size — almost 256 square kilometres, or former Agricultural Land Commission chair, spoke about 99 square miles. Located in the beautiful, sunny strongly: “Let the river run in peace. Th is river has given Spallumcheen Valley, the township is fi rst and foremost enough. Th is valley does not need to give another inch.” an agricultural community. Th e fertile valley supports all We left the valley that night as the sun set. Th e reality forms of agricultural and farming operations. of what we all could lose as a province became heavier, [1025] but the paddlers’ commitment to return to an unfl ooded Spallumcheen’s motto says it all: “Where farming valley became even stronger. comes fi rst.” Indeed, the majority of the township’s land is within the agricultural land reserve, ensuring this QUEEN ELIZABETH PARK lush, bountiful farmland will be protected for genera- tions to come. Moira Stilwell: Queen Elizabeth Park is Vancouver’s Th e community’s 5,000 rural residents conduct the horticultural jewel, a gorgeous fl oral and arboreal dis- vast majority of their daily business in Armstrong, but play located at the highest point in the city. It is a popu- they are proud to call Spallumcheen home. Th e township lar backdrop for wedding photos and boasts some of the is led by Mayor Janice Brown, now serving her second most spectacular views in the region that draw visitors term as mayor aft er fi rst being elected as councillor back from around the world. It is 52 hectares of serenity and in 1999. Mayor Brown and her council are dedicated to calm, surrounded by lovingly landscaped gardens, exotic ensuring the sustainability of agriculture in their valley and native trees, and sculptures by the renowned artist and protecting its charming, rural character. Henry Moore. It’s communities like Spallumcheen that remind us of a Th is year marks the 75th anniversary of the park. But simpler time and reinforce the fact that we must continue aft er three-quarters of a century Vancouver’s continued to cultivate and celebrate our agricultural roots. growth, coupled with new development encroaching on the park, has led to the loss of many of the features that PADDLE FOR THE PEACE have existed for decades. Th at’s why earlier this year saw the formation of a non-profi t, community-based soci- L. Popham: As I made my way up to the point, I ety designed to protect and enrich the park and ensure stopped to catch my breath. Th e warm air fi lled my lungs, that it remain a place of beauty and relaxation within along with the fragrant aroma of wild sage. I looked up Vancouver’s bustling urban environment. and saw over 25 ravens circling above, riding the easy Th e Friends of Queen Elizabeth Park Society works breeze that moved along the golden bluff s. with the public, government, local businesses and I carried on to the edge of the river, and the fi rst thing Vancouver park board to enhance the qualities of the I noticed was the movement of water — the force and park, protect its horticultural features and encourage the power, like it was alive. I looked down the river val- multipurpose use of its grounds for sport, recreation and ley and saw the edges fi lled with crops like alfalfa, can- leisure. Th e society represents a wide spectrum of back- ola, oats and hay. We stood in silence, just letting it all grounds and interests, but they are all united by a passion sink in. I had come to the Peace River Valley to take part for restoring the park and maintaining its beauty. in the Paddle for the Peace, and in that moment I knew One of their fi rst projects will be to complete an in- just why I was there. ventory of the arboretum, which has existed since 1949 Th e Paddle for the Peace began last Saturday morning, without any formal inventory of its trees, their locations bright and early, with a pre-paddle breakfast sponsored or their condition. Th e society will also work to pro- by the West Moberly Nation. First Nations, residents, tect the migratory birds that use the park, promote the farmers, ranchers, scientists, geologists, business people park through exhibits and nature-related events, and re- and supporters all took to the water, and we paddled develop many garden features that have been lost over together. the years. I shared a canoe with Brian Churchill. He dipped a I want to congratulate all of the Friends of Queen mug into the river and off ered it to me. He said: “If you Elizabeth Park for creating a powerful public voice for 9040 British Columbia Debates Thursday, July 16, 2015

Queen Elizabeth Park. And I want to invite everyone to I have directed my deputy minister to work with the support them as they work to restore, enhance and pro- Public Service Agency on what form of staff conduct tect its features for future generations. review is appropriate in this situation — respecting, of [1030] course, public servants’ rights to be treated fairly and with due process. My expectation is that that plan will Oral Questions be brought to me with haste.

CHILDREN AND FAMILY DEVELOPMENT Madame Speaker: The Leader of the Official MINISTRY HANDLING OF CHILD PLACEMENT Opposition on a supplemental. CASE AND COURT ORDERS J. Horgan: I’m pleased to hear empathy, but I didn’t J. Horgan: On Tuesday a scathing decision from the hear responsibility from the minister. Th e minister has a B.C. Supreme Court found that the director and staff , responsibility to protect the children in this province. Her the Ministry of Children and Families, were “wanton ministry disregarded a Supreme Court order. Her min- and reckless and, at a minimum, grossly negligent.” Th ey istry misled a Vancouver police department investigation, were “recklessly indiff erent.” Th ey displayed “intentional put a child in harm’s way, led to the sexual abuse of that misconduct, bad faith, reckless disregard for their obli- child. Th is is very, very serious. It’s not good enough for gation to protect children.” Let that sink in for a minute, the minister to say: “It’s a long judgment. We will some for all of the members in this place and all of the people time to consider it.” Where was the consideration for the in the galleries today. family? Six years this has been dragging on. Yesterday when we asked these questions to the min- Th e question I just asked the minister was a simple one. ister, she said that child protection decisions are hard. I She did not answer the question. How many other court agree. Th ey are hard. But it should not be a diffi cult de- orders has this ministry disregarded? How many other cision to follow Supreme Court orders. It should not be children have been put at risk? a diffi cult decision to give full and accurate information to police conducting an investigation. But that’s exactly Hon. S. Cadieux: As I just stated, British Columbians, what the ministry did. this family and the rest of British Columbia, deserve to Th ey said in the judgment: “Th e director improperly know that the child welfare system is responsive and ac- and maliciously interfered with and infl uenced the VPD countable for the decisions it makes. investigation into the sexual abuse allegations.” [1035] Th ey disrupted an investigation. Th ey disregarded a As such, I have, again, just said that given the serious- Supreme Court ruling. Most people expect the Ministry ness of the decision and the judgment made by the judge of Children and Families to put fi rst and foremost the in this case, we will necessarily undertake a review of all protection of children. To do so one would assume that of the policy and practice implications. What form that you would follow and assist a police investigation and review takes needs to be thought through, certainly. It that you would follow the letter of the law when con- can’t be rushed, but it won’t be delayed. And when that ducting your business. plan is brought forward to me, I will explain to the pub- My question to the minister she did not answer yester- lic what form that review will take. day. How many other court orders has this government disregarded? How many other children have been put Madame Speaker: The Leader of the Official at risk because this government believes they’re above Opposition on a further supplemental. the law? J. Horgan: Th e ministry spent years in court action, Hon. S. Cadieux: Th is situation has left very, very real millions of dollars of taxpayers’ money trying to cover impacts on a family. No one can hear the story and not up bad decisions that were made by the ministry with re- feel empathy and sympathy. British Columbians deserve spect to this family. Six years of court action, millions of to know that their child welfare system is responsive, dollars spent, and concern for the children doesn’t seem with the needs of the child fi rst, and always guided by to be at the top of the list for the ministry, with respect, the best interest of a child and accountable for the deci- certainly to this family. sions it makes. We’ve asked the minister now six times: how many Given the seriousness of the decision rendered by the other children are being put at risk because the govern- judge, we will necessarily undertake a review relating to ment believes it’s above the law? the nature of the case, from a policy and practice perspec- I guess we don’t have an answer to that question, so I’d tive as well as the HR implications. However, what form like to move to another question, keeping in mind this that review will take requires a plan that should not be quote, again from the judgment: “intentional misconduct, rushed but must not be delayed. bad faith, reckless disregard for their obligation to protect Thursday, July 16, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9041

children.” I can’t imagine a more scathing indictment of and negligence of the ministry under this minister. It’s this government’s activities and behaviour with respect obvious that we can’t trust this minister and this gov- to protecting children in British Columbia. ernment to do the right thing in this case. Her ministry At a minimum, I repeat the question we asked yester- decided it was more important to advocate for a sexual day. What steps has the minister taken to ensure that the predator than the children in danger of abuse. Her min- appropriate supports are in place to get these children istry misled the Provincial Court in order to wrongfully back on their feet, to protect them into the future? Are remove the children from the home of their mother. Her there counselling supports in place? We’re told there are ministry defi ed a Supreme Court order, leading to the not. Can the minister confi rm that? sexual abuse of a toddler. Th e facts of this case were known in 2012, when the Hon. S. Cadieux: Th e member should know, given his fi rst ruling by the judge came forward. Now the minister time in the Legislature, that the ministry funds various says she doesn’t even know the form a review will take agencies and programs to provide counselling to children three years later. Will the minister take responsibility for that have suff ered physical or sexual abuse or emotional these failures? Will she at least apologize? harm. Th ose programs are available. Parents can access those services for their children by contacting the pro- Hon. S. Cadieux: Any time a child is harmed, it’s con- grams directly or through the ministry. cerning. It is especially concerning when that child is In circumstances where a family has an open fi le with harmed when they have been in contact or in care of the the ministry, counselling services would certainly be of- ministry. Th is very serious judgment came down only the fered, but ultimately it is up to a family to accept the help. day before yesterday. I am reviewing it. Th e ministry is reviewing it, and we take it extremely seriously. D. Donaldson: It’s diffi cult to overstate the magnitude of the wrongs done to these children and their mother. C. James: It was wrong for the minister to allow the Th e way the ministry treated them wasn’t just negligent. ministry to ignore a B.C. Supreme Court order that was At times it was outright cruel. Prior to being taken from put in place to protect these children. As a result, a little their mother, the children enjoyed many extracurricu- girl was sexually abused. Th e minister is compounding lar activities, including gymnastics and choir. Aft er they that wrong by refusing to do the right thing and assure were taken into care, the ministry refused to let the chil- that these children have access to counselling and other dren participate in these activities, even though their supports. mother off ered to pay for them. Will the minister today do the right thing — not refer Th e legislation is clear. Children in the care of the min- the mother to a website, not refer the family to very istry have the right to participate in social and recreation- scarce resources and ask them to navigate the system? al activities. Can the minister explain why on earth her Will the minister today commit to ensuring that these ministry was so cruel and denied these children these children and the family get every bit of support they need simple kindnesses? to overcome the tremendous wrongs that were done to them by this government? Hon. S. Cadieux: The member knows that I can’t speak about circumstances related to individual fam- Hon. S. Cadieux: Again, in circumstances where a ilies or children in this House. He has the luxury of do- family is involved with the ministry, counselling service ing so; I do not. would certainly be off ered, but ultimately, it is up to the However, as I have said and will restate for the member, family to take advantage of those services. everyone has heard the very real impacts this situation has left on this family and are impacted by those realities. Madame Speaker: Victoria–Beacon Hill on a supple- British Columbians deserve to know that their system is mental. responsive and accountable, and as such, a review will be undertaken into all of the policy and practice concerns C. James: I’m sorry. It’s hard to even know how to re- raised by this judgment and the HR implications. But we spond. It’s hard to even know how to respond in a case will do so with due process. like this. Surely, the minister will see that she should take personal responsibility through her ministry to make Madame Speaker: Th e member for Stikine on a sup- sure that those supports are off ered and all of the resour- plemental. ces are there for that family. Th at is basic. [1040] Th ese children were wrongfully taken from their moth- er 2½ years ago. Th ey were sexually abused at the hands D. Donaldson: We haven’t even heard an apology of their father, and they were ignored by this ministry. from the minister for the suff ering these children en- Th e minister said yesterday that “it is our sole purpose dured due to what the courts described as recklessness in the ministry to ensure that vulnerable children and 9042 British Columbia Debates Thursday, July 16, 2015

families have the supports and services that they need.” what they’re doing. While they had some questions re- Again, I ask the minister not to refer a family somewhere, garding the adoption, they had signed on and agreed to not to say that there’s a website and you can fi nd the ser- the adoption strategy. vices. Will the resources be there for the family to access Will the minister commit today, if nothing else, to take services and supports and counselling that they need? this case seriously and to ensure that on her watch…? And will the minister apologize to this family for the wrongdoing of this government? Interjections.

Interjections. Madame Speaker: Members.

Madame Speaker: I will caution all members that the N. Simons: I’m not sure why the members on that side House needs to hear the answer and the question. aren’t agreeing with this egregious case.

Hon. S. Cadieux: Every day child protection social Madame Speaker: Th rough the Chair. workers in the ministry have to make very diffi cult deci- sions with the information they have at the time. Th ey are N. Simons: Will the minister commit to ensure that making decisions with people’s lives. In this circumstance adoption planning and adoption plans are adhered to it is clear that there was very real impact when certain when all parties agree? decisions were made. [1045] Hon. S. Cadieux: Again, I’ll reiterate for the member I take the decision of the judge and his commentary that although he has the latitude to speak about cases in in his judgment very seriously. As such, there will be a this House, by law I do not. However, what I will say — review relating to the policy, the practice and the HR and I know the member knows this — is I am extremely implications, and we will do that respecting due process. committed to the children in this ministry. I am extreme- ly committed to ensuring… ADOPTION PLAN FOR CHILD IN CARE Interjections. N. Simons: About six weeks ago the Ministry of Children and Families told a 6½-year-old girl at school Madame Speaker: Order. one day that she would not be returning to the foster home she grew up in since she was four months old. Her Hon. S. Cadieux: …permanency, and adoptions are a adoption placement had been accelerated. Th e foster par- priority for this ministry, and that includes proper plan- ents were called that morning and told to put her things ning and execution of those adoptions. in the carport. Th e child and her foster parents have not been permitted to see each other since that day. AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND Th ere is absolutely no justifi cation for this. Why did METRO VANCOUVER HOUSING MARKET the ministry disregard the adoption plan that they had agreed to? A. Weaver: Earlier this year we learned that the U.S. short-sellers are betting on a Canadian housing crash, Hon. S. Cadieux: Once again, I’m not going to com- calling it an accident waiting to happen. One article ment on specifi c cases in this House. What I will tell the quoted a high-profi le U.S. short-seller who described House is that the member has been in contact with my the Vancouver housing market as “a mix of money laun- ministry about this circumstance. dering…low interest rates.” And he went on: “A house is something you live in, but in Vancouver you guys are Madame Speaker: Powell River–Sunshine Coast on trading them like penny stocks on Howe Street.” a supplemental. Government oft en points to global forces as the main reason we need to be so careful and deliberate with our N. Simons: Almost two months have passed, and the economic management. I’m left wondering: where is child and the foster parents who raised her have still not the careful and deliberate action to ensure that Metro been able to speak. Vancouver’s housing market doesn’t become the next Th e minister doesn’t want to talk about the case, but housing bubble? I will. Th e foster parents raised eight children of their More and more British Columbians are taking on big- own, four of whom they adopted. Seven children had ger and bigger mortgages as housing becomes less af- gone through their home and were successfully adopt- fordable. Th e economic consequences of a burst housing ed into permanent homes. Over 300 children in need of bubble would be profound. care were cared for by these foster parents. Th ey know My question to the Minister of Finance is this. Can he Thursday, July 16, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9043

provide this House with an update as to what actions, if the bare trust property transfer tax loophole that I have any, his government is taking to ensure that Vancouver’s bought up several times here…? It’s actually incentiviz- housing bubble doesn’t burst? ing the speculative market. [1050] My question then to the minister is: instead of rhetor- ical speculation contained in the reports that government Hon. M. de Jong: To the member, the fi rst thing I released earlier this year, when the Finance Minister pro- can do, perhaps surprisingly, is validate for him the vided British Columbians with an outline of what data it interest, the curiosity, at times the fascination, that plans to collect and analyze to determine what action is Americans have for the Canadian real estate market, the necessary to ensure that people retain access to aff ord- Canadian housing market, and that includes certainly able housing in Metro Vancouver, what plans does the the Vancouver market. Th at comes up frequently in the minister have…? discussions we have with them. I think it derives in large measure from their own ex- Madame Speaker: Question. perience and the trauma that they suff ered aft er 2008. I think, further to that, it derives from the belief that if it A. Weaver: What plans does the minister have to gain happened there, it is destined and, therefore, must hap- and gather data to ensure that decision and policy is in- pen elsewhere. formed? What I tell them is this. I’ll respond, and I’ll tell the member and the House what I say to them. You do have Hon. M. de Jong: To the member, I must fi rst of all to understand that there are some fundamental diff er- confess that officials representing the government of ences. Th e levels of equity that are involved in home the People’s Republic of China may have an affi nity for ownership in British Columbia are, on average, very, very centralized control and management that I do not share. diff erent than American markets. Th e rate of default and But be that as it may, I think there is value in gathering arrears thus far is very small, and the general stability of additional data, which is why I’m pleased the Minister our banking system is diff erent. Responsible for Housing, through B.C. Housing, is work- Now, I don’t say that at all to diminish or dismiss the ing with agencies to gather additional data. concern, but this has been a high-value real estate mar- I’ve mentioned earlier some of the other steps that the ket for a long, long time. What the government is doing government has taken, I do believe — matters relating is examining measures that may encourage fi rst-time to density. I can provide the member with data and sta- homebuyers to enter the market. We are, as well, through tistics about the average price of housing in Vancouver, B.C. Housing, working to gather more information and which is actually lower than many people think. You can more data. And I’m alive to the private member’s bill that still purchase a home in Vancouver for under $400,000. was tabled today. We are also seeking to work with local About 30 percent of the homes that are exchanged or sold governments to address issues around density that are a are sold for less than that. key part of the puzzle of addressing housing aff ordability. I think a big part of this is driven by the general eco- nomic circumstances, and if…. Madame Speaker: Oak Bay–Gordon Head on a sup- plemental. Madame Speaker: Th ank you, Minister.

A. Weaver: Th anks to the minister for his response there. Hon. M. de Jong: Madame Speaker, since I don’t ex- We’ve also recently heard from the Chinese consul pect I’m going to get a question from the official op- general in Vancouver, Ms. Liu Fei, who suggested that position about the state of the economy or the public the blame for the situation lies with “offi cials who mon- accounts that were tabled, I will take this opportunity to itor buyers, sellers and real estate developers.” She goes advise the House what people are saying. on to say: “People are blaming the buyer. It’s the wrong direction. I mean, the regulation here, nobody’s playing Madame Speaker: Th ank you, Minister. the role.” Her point is that government must ensure that housing Hon. M. de Jong: Th e national bank says B.C.’s econ- remains aff ordable and the bubble does not burst. Now, omy is relatively buoyant, the budget is balanced, and the the fi rst step towards formulating good housing policy is debt burden is relatively low and falling. to ensure that the necessary information is available for analysis. For example…. Madame Speaker: Minister. [1055] Madame Speaker: A question. Hon. M. de Jong: Little wonder B.C. is leading the A. Weaver: A question, I have. It’s a key question. Is way in Canada. 9044 British Columbia Debates Thursday, July 16, 2015

HEALTH MINISTRY INVESTIGATION that it all can be laid out and fully understood in context and in a complete sense of the information available. I L. Krog: Th ar she blows, hon. Speaker. would say to the member: let’s let the Finance Committee For the past few days the Health Minister has tried to do their work. I sincerely hope that the Ombudsperson explain why he failed to tell the public, the House and his will take this work and shed light on all of these questions former employees that the RCMP closed the fi le on the that members from both sides of the House have and the health fi rings a year ago today. First, he said he wanted to public certainly has as well. be thorough. Th en he said there was a comptroller gener- al’s investigation. But through it all, he neglected to men- Madame Speaker: Vancouver-Kingsway on a supple- tion his own deputy minister’s investigation. mental. Here’s what the minister said about that investiga- tion last month: “Once the investigation in terms of the A. Dix: I take it from that that when the RCMP in- Ministry of Health took place and my deputy subse- formed the government that they were closing the fi le, quently came on and did a review of all the information, the government took no action. Th e ministry took no ac- there was less interest, if you like, in terms of having the tion and continued to allow those employees and those RCMP follow up.” agencies to be smeared. To the Health Minister, if he was not interested in hav- I remind the minister, as he’s the Minister of Health ing the RCMP follow up on the allegations his predeces- now, that the press release they put out on September 6, sor levelled in September 2012, why didn’t he relay that 2012, said as follows: “Th e Ministry of Health has asked to the RCMP? the RCMP to investigate allegations of inappropriate conduct, contracting and data management practices in- Hon. T. Lake: As I said in this House earlier this week, volving ministry employees and drug researchers.” Th ey the RCMP certainly had expressed interest in the work never provided any evidence. Th at was false. of the comptroller general, who was looking at the con- [1100] tractual and procurement practices in the Ministry of “Health Minister Margaret MacDiarmid said today that Health. Th at work took longer than expected. Th e report the ministry had provided the RCMP with the interim was completed, I understand, in April of 2015 and was results of an internal investigation.” Th at was false. In fact, passed on to the RCMP. the briefi ng note, when the Premier’s communications My comments refl ected the view that in terms of the team prepared this press release, said they wouldn’t be data management practices, my deputy minister had re- providing information until September 19. viewed that and we had come to agreements with some Then the third sentence — this will be of interest of the employees and contractors. Th en the offi ce of the to the minister, given his response earlier in the week comptroller general continued to do work in which the — smeared researchers at the therapeutics initiative, RCMP maintained a continued interest. Alzheimer’s drug therapy initiative and EQIP at the University of British Columbia and UVic. A. Dix: Th e Minister of Health — one year ago today What they did was smear people knowingly, and they his ministry was informed by the RCMP that they closed knew at the time, knowingly, that they hadn’t provided the fi le because the ministry hadn’t provided information the RCMP with anything. Th ey blew through six dead- it had repeatedly promised. What action did the ministry lines aft er that. take at that time? Does the minister not think that he has to answer for that conduct by his ministry other than in investigations? Hon. T. Lake: As I said, the ministry had been work- Does he not feel that he needs to answer to the fact that ing with the RCMP. Th ey exchanged information. Once his ministry and his government at the highest levels — the Deputy Minister of Health progressed with his review including the Premier’s offi ce, including the Ministry of of all the work that had been done to date and came to Health, including the Ministry of Justice — allowed those arrangements with some of the employees and some of researchers to be smeared for 2½ years? Is that anything the contractors, the RCMP…. other than completely unacceptable? In terms of the Ministry of Health work, we were not following up with the RCMP in terms of further work. Hon. T. Lake: I said earlier this week that the Ministry However, it was clear from communication between the of Health investigator, along with offi cials from the offi ce RCMP and the Ministry of Health and the offi ce of the of the comptroller general, met on a number of occasions comptroller general that the RCMP maintained an inter- with the RCMP in both 2012 and 2013. Offi cials met with est in the fi le in terms of the work that the offi ce of the the RCMP and made information available to them. comptroller general was carrying out. Additional communication between government of- Th e hon. member knows that we have requested that fi cials and the RCMP about the status of the comptrol- the Ombudsperson take a look at all of this material so ler general’s investigation took place in 2014 and 2015. Thursday, July 16, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9045

Th e member knows that all of this information can be people other than those gathered at the moment. Th ose reviewed and assessed in terms of the Ombudsperson. I people are the deputy, Peter Milburn; Pat Parkinson, to would say to that member: why is he not supporting a my immediate left ; Paul Flanagan, behind me; and to quick review by the Ombudsperson so that those ques- your right, my left , Mathew Taylor, who has also been a tions can be answered fully for him, for me and for all key part of craft ing some of the documentation. But yes, the people of British Columbia? I am anxious that we have an opportunity to explore all of the documents that were part of the package tabled [End of question period.] here and made public earlier. Just for the record, we did have a conversation earlier, Petitions and my sense is that section 2 is probably the appropri- ate section within the legislation to conduct that exam- M. Mungall: I rise to present a petition. Here I have ination. 323 more signatures, adding to the 12,423 signatures I’ve already presented in this House, for the retention of in- Th e Chair: Further to the minister’s comments, as well, house hospital laundry services in the interior of British while section 2, I do believe, as Chair, is the appropriate Columbia — bringing to a total of 12,746 people who are place to be canvassing those comments and questions on speaking out for local jobs. the agreements themselves, just for greater clarity for all members, we will not be going on a section-by-section Orders of the Day review through the agreements. We will be entertaining any and all questions on the Hon. M. de Jong: Committee stage debate on Bill 30. agreements, but we will not be going through the agree- ments on a section-by-section basis. Committee of the Whole House B. Ralston: I’m a bit surprised by that, because the BILL 30 — LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS logical way to proceed through an agreement is to go PROJECT AGREEMENTS ACT section by section. Rather than jumping here and there, step-by-step proceeding through the agreement is usu- Th e House in Committee of the Whole (Section B) on ally the best way to focus debate, bring clarity. Bill 30; D. Horne in the chair. Given that the minister has agreed and I would see that as the logical way to proceed, I’m wondering if the Chair Th e committee met at 11:05 a.m. — with the greatest respect — could clarify why he has chosen to rule in that manner. On section 1. Th e Chair: Th e Chair is in the hands of the commit- B. Ralston: I want to begin, fi rst, with a few comments tee, but that being said, it’s Bill 30 that’s currently before and just clarify the nature of the endeavour that we’ve this committee. While in section 2, obviously, the agree- embarked upon. ments themselves form a natural part of that and it’s in- Th e minister has said, in debate, that at section 2 the deed the fi rst agreement, it is not the agreement itself that contents of the negotiated project development agreement this committee will be passing. in respect of Pacifi c NorthWest LNG will be open for ques- [1110] tions. At that time, he also tabled a number of other docu- So while I agree with the member that a chronologic- ments — the liquefi ed natural gas environmental incentive al or a section-by-section questioning of the agreement program, some adherence agreements. Th ere was an ap- would be the most appropriate way to do it, we will not pendix. Th ere was an amendment to section 2.6. be passing each section of the agreement. Th e member is I just want to clarify and confi rm that at section 2 not welcome to ask the questions in any order that the mem- only the agreement itself but all the other documents ber would like to ask those questions. that were tabled as part of the package will be before the House as part of the legislative scheme that’s being ad- B. Ralston: I appreciate that clarifi cation. I’d under- vanced here. stood that, indeed, there would not be votes on individual sections of the agreement. Th ank you. Th at’s very helpful. Hon. M. de Jong: Yes, that is the intention. Th at’s why I want to begin with the definition of “carbon tax the documents were tabled and made public and for- change.” Mr. Matt Horne, who is a senior researcher at warded to the member and his colleague a week prior, I the Pembina Institute and appointed by the Premier to think, to us sitting. the climate change task force that was reviewing the cli- I will attach this one caveat, and that is: on some of mate change policy of the government — who were due the matters I will take advantage of expertise provided by to report on Th ursday, but I gather are not going to re- 9046 British Columbia Debates Thursday, July 16, 2015

port this Th ursday; that’s been changed — has said, in re- Hon. M. de Jong: Let’s consider not just the possibil- lation to carbon tax change, that this defi nition of change ity but the probability of evolving technology, not just does not rule out a general change applicable across the with respect to this industry but in the sphere of emis- board to all emitters but eliminates “the option of focus- sions generally. It may well be that a future government, ing a future phase of the carbon tax on LNG terminals.” confronted by that evolving technology, decides that it Given the volume of emissions from a single plant, wishes to encourage or amplify the attractiveness of that given the length of the agreement, which is 25 years technology to emitters. And this sector, depending on plus a certain period of a number of years depending how they’re operating, could be signifi cant emitters. on when the commercial operations date takes place, if Th e option of a general increase — and I hasten to add it ever does…. It could be up to 30 years. Can the min- that it is not…. When we talk about this in the hypothet- ister explain why he has ruled out the option, given that ical, in the abstract, it is not something that is in the mind this is a global industry, given that there are a number of of this government today. But the option of a future gov- countries involved in this, given that technology change ernment to apply a general rate increase to encourage over that period of time could potentially be revolution- adoption of that evolving technology remains. Th ere is ary? Why would he preclude a change to carbon tax re- nothing in the agreement that would mitigate or discour- sulting from the arrival of new technology through this age a future government or penalize a future government defi nition of change? from making that decision.

Hon. M. de Jong: I’m sure the member will expand B. Ralston: Th e further defi nition in (b) applies to “an upon this, but my short answer is we have precluded no enactment that creates a tax that applies only to green- such thing. house gas emissions resulting from liquefaction activities.” Th e defi nition of “carbon tax change” is signifi cant be- “Liquefaction activities” is defi ned as it is in the Liquefi ed cause it is one of the four change events that may be speci- Natural Gas Income Tax Act. Clearly, as I recall, the def- fi ed in an LNG project agreement. Th at is certainly the inition — and I’m sure the minister does too, because our case. A change event — one of those four — can trigger debate on it was not so long ago — really begins at the other provisions of the agreement, specifi cally indemni- inlet pipe at the liquefaction plant. fi cation agreements. Can the minister explain why the decision was made What has been disincented is a discriminatory change to draw the line of division there — only applying to li- event that would apply to the LNG sector, or an LNG fa- quefaction activities and not to any other aspect of the cility specifi cally. I don’t know that I follow the argument operation of the system? that says we are disincenting the employment of newer technology. Presumably, the application of the carbon Hon. M. de Jong: Hopefully, this answers the mem- tax…. Certainly, part of its rationale at its birth was to ber’s question. In short order, the line that he refers to incent technology and lower emissions, and its applica- that derives from the applicable defi nitions relates to the tion to this industry presumably maintains that incentive. fact that the upstream portion of what will drive this in- dustry is an established industry in British Columbia and B. Ralston: Mr. Horne — and I think he’s considered has been so for many decades now. Th e new part of what to be fairly authoritative; certainly the Premier thought is occurring here and attracting the new investment, and enough of his knowledge and skills to appoint him to the the new sizeable investment, relates to the liquefaction fa- task force on climate change, the recent review — has cility. In general terms, that’s what accounts for that line said: “Th ey are also eliminating the option of focusing a that the member has referred to. future phase of the carbon tax on LNG terminals.” [1120] [1115] I know the minister generally doesn’t like to engage in B. Ralston: In the defi nition of “greenhouse gas regula- hypotheticals, and I understand that reluctance. Suppose tory change,” there’s a reference in sub (a)(i) to an amend- there were a change in technology which the operators ment to either the Greenhouse Gas Industrial Reporting here refused to implement, and the change would dra- and Control Act itself or regulations enacted on or before matically reduce emissions. In order to incent that, one December 31, 2015. It also goes on in (b) to talk about policy option — I’m not necessarily saying that this “a modifi cation or termination of an incentive program.” would be the only one — might be to increase the specifi c Now, in the agreement, there is a defi nition in clause tax on the old technology in order to incent the transi- 2.6, and then there’s a subsequent document which tion to a new one, if the operator were reluctant to do that. amends section 2.6. Th at’s an amending agreement. I Now, I appreciate that’s a hypothetical, but as Mr. don’t have a…. Th ere’s a copy signed by Mr. Culbert, but Horne says, that’s being ruled out. Can the minister ex- it doesn’t appear to have been signed by the minister. I plain why that decision was taken to rule out such a use assume the minister signed it later and that it would of a policy tool over a period of 30 years? be in the original copy. It speaks of deleting 2.6 of the Thursday, July 16, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9047

project development agreement and sets out what is re- Hon. M. de Jong: I’ll start by, perhaps, just correcting ferred to in the same language that is used here about this one thing that the member included in his question. the legislation. I believe he referred in passing to this defi nition section It refers to regulations under the GGIRC and the ef- as representing the authority for the regulations. I just fective date of those regulations. Can the minister explain want to make clear — and I think he understands this — how that amendment relates to this section? Is that the that the authority for regulations under the Greenhouse regulations and amendment of those regulations that’s Gas Industrial Reporting and Control Act, the specifi c being spoken of in this amendment to the project de- statutory authority for those regs, exists within that act. velopment agreement? I will have questions more spe- So the work that is being undertaken is being undertaken cifi cally about the regulations and the incentive program pursuant to that. later, but I just wanted to make sure that this is the sec- Th e member is correct, by the way. Th ere are consulta- tion that’s being spoken of. tions ongoing. He is also correct when, I believe, he said that we can interpret the presence of this section and the Hon. M. de Jong: What I thought I would do is fi rst date as an indication of the government’s intention to off er up to the member and the committee an explana- conclude that work and post regulations pursuant to the tion for the amendment proper to the PDA, and then we act by the end of this calendar year. can get back to the substance of the section. In the original clause 2.6 of the PDA, the terminol- A. Weaver: I have three questions on the defi nition ogy there, “Th e parties acknowledge and agree that the with respect to “greenhouse gas regulatory change.” I’m baseline legislation for the purposes of clause 3 shall exploring this defi nition with the idea that I’m wondering be the acts…that are….” Th e words in there were “in whether the government has actually thought through force.” It was correctly identifi ed aft er signature that some of the potential ramifi cations of international or they aren’t actually in force just yet, so the words are other policy that could happen and what it would mean replaced with “enacted at the eff ective date.” Th ere was to future governments in British Columbia. a similar issue with respect to the regulation. Th at’s Th e fi rst is that internationally there’s something called why that amendment — a fairly technical one about the Global Methane Initiative, which is gaining momen- what was in force at the time and what wasn’t. Th at’s tum. In there, specifi cally, it’s targeting methane emis- the amendment to 2.6. sions as opposed to carbon dioxide emissions. Now, I’m certain that the member has questions about Th e question with respect to that is: if international the defi nitions section, and I’ll wait to hear that again. jurisdictions or international agreements come to start to [1125] diff erentiate between global warming potential in terms of pricing, as opposed to combustible carbon in terms B. Ralston: Just for clarity, then, (b): “a modifi cation of pricing — which is what happens in B.C. — does this, or termination of an incentive program.” By the “incen- under this “greenhouse gas regulatory change” defi nition, tive program,” there’s a defi nition set out in that. Just preclude any government from making the appropriate for confi rmation, is the document that was tabled in changes without actually triggering the indemnity that the House on July 13 — of which a copy was provided would essentially reward the LNG proponent now? as an appendix with the package of documents tabled [1130] along with the agreement — what’s being referred to there, then? Hon. M. de Jong: Th ank you to the member for the question. No, as long as the change applies as a general Hon. M. de Jong: Yes, that is correct. I suppose I law of application. should word that correctly. Th at is an example and the one that we have before us. A. Weaver: Following on that line, government re- cently announced — on Monday, I believe, of this week B. Ralston: Now, in section (a)(ii): “regulations under — regulations that exclude the carbon dioxide in the gas that Act” — referring to the Greenhouse Gas Industrial stream at liquefi cation when it’s compressed. You want Reporting Act — “enacted on or before December 31, to vent that stuff off because you don’t want it to be in the 2015.” Th at empowers the creation of regulations pro- liquefi cation process. spectively but with a specifi c deadline. Th at is no longer presently subject…. Th ose are fugi- Th e regulations. I understand from the agreement that tive emissions which a company can now exclude as it there is a process in place whereby the proponent and the moves towards gaining credit towards the 0.23 and 0.16 government will be sitting down to discuss and to nego- tax break targets that government is trying to incentiv- tiate those regulations with a view to concluding them — ize towards. Th ose emissions are not presently subject to given that this is statutory language — before December the carbon tax. It is possible that a carbon tax will come 31, 2015. Is that the process that is being referred to here? to those emissions. Th at would then exclusively apply 9048 British Columbia Debates Thursday, July 16, 2015

to the LNG liquefi cation facility, because those fugitive We are endeavouring — and the member is, quite emissions only exist there. properly — to consider what may change and the ability My question to the government is: if government of future governments to respond to that change. Th at introduces legislation there, to what extent is it feeling has been very much in the minds of the government and confi dent, and does it have legal opinion, that Petronas the offi cials we have charged with the task of draft ing and cannot take government to court, arguing that this is ac- constructing both the agreement and the legislation that tually targeting them through pricing fugitive emissions we have before us now. at the liquefi cation site, where those are vented off into Th e government is confi dent, on the strength of the ad- the atmosphere? vice that we have received, that we have not constrained the ability of future governments to respond to those cir- Hon. M. de Jong: I can advise the member and the cumstances without triggering the change event in the in- committee of this. Th e government is confi dent that there demnifi cation as long as it does so in a way that applies are no restrictions on the ability of a future government generally. What I can’t do is speculate about what a fu- to alter the methodology utilized to calculate the carbon ture government’s draft ing might look like and whether tax. Th e key qualifi er, the key aspect of this, is: as long a specifi c provision would pass that test. But the concept as it does so in a way that applies generally. If that pre- is sound, embedded and purposely designed to maintain requisite is met, then it does not trigger a change event maximum fl exibility for future regimes. or qualify as a change event. A. Weaver: My final question on this definition is A. Weaver: Just as a follow-up to that — with respect, with respect to the potential that present or future gov- of course — for fugitive emissions, you can apply it gen- ernments might recognize. An issue that has not been erally, but it only applies to one industry. Th erein lies my discussed much with this debate about LNG is that if we concern: the interpretation. I would argue a legal opin- are going to develop an export market, without any ques- ion could be made on either side of this — that if you tion, the price of gas in British Columbia is going to go are taxing fugitive emissions, you are solely taxing the up because we have excess capacity. When you commit LNG industry. to long-term export, the price is going to go up because To be honest, if I were a multi-billion-dollar multi- the supply is going to go down. national, I’d take the government to court. Th e reason My question to the minister, through this defi nition, why I’d do that is because I’m sure I could fi nd legal opin- is: if the government actually incentivizes domestic use ion that would support it. Th is government and the rev- at the expense of export, would that actually trigger an enues associated with a legal case with a multinational indemnity clause? I could imagine a situation where, let’s would simply not…. It would cost millions. So I’m not suppose, hypothetically, Petronas believes it has such a convinced that the government has thought this through. good deal here, because they’re not going to have to pay I reiterate the question. Does the government truly be- anything to British Columbians, that they actually go lieve, for the record, that if it is to tax fugitive emissions, gung-ho on this and just take the gas out of the ground this is considered sectorwide when, in reality, fugitive at the Montney play as fast as they can, which jacks the emissions only apply to one sector? Th at is the natural price up of natural gas in British Columbia. gas sector. I would argue legal interpretation would say Th en the next government says, “We need to incentiv- that that’s punitive. ize our domestic market and actually bring more supply [1135] to the domestic market,” which would then aff ect the ex- port capacity. Is this going to trigger an indemnity clause? Hon. M. de Jong: I’m reminded of a couple of things, [1140] and this is the moment to explore these concepts and principles. Th at’s important. Th e notion of where fugi- Hon. M. de Jong: I have the member’s point, which tive emissions might occur and how future governments revolves around basic principles of supply and demand. might choose to deal with them is something that is pro- Th e only caution or qualifi er I might attach is we are very vided for, contemplated, has been thought about. Th ere pointedly not a British Columbia market. We are a North are no constraints on the ability of a future government American market right now. to deal with that without triggering the indemnifi cation I’m hesitant to speculate at this point about the degree provisions. to which the development of an off shore capacity is go- I observe that the member correctly points out that ing to impact — in the short, medium and long term — technologies may change and circumstances may change pricing. It may well. But my crystal ball is pretty foggy but then, I think, prefaces his remark with “fugitive emis- on that point. I do know this. Th e prospects for this sec- sions only occur in this circumstance.” Well, they certain- tor absent developing an off shore capacity are not bright. ly occur along the pathway that is the natural gas sector, Th at is partially motivating the government as well. and they may occur elsewhere in the future. My view, and I have canvassed with the offi cials that Thursday, July 16, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9049

are present here, is that the circumstance, the situation proportionate categories for one or more…industries.” or the scenario that the member has described — to the At the outset it says that would not be a discriminatory degree I understand what he has described for the com- GGIRC event, and the incentive program forms part of mittee — would not trigger any of the indemnifi cation that. Is that what is meant by an incentive program that’s provisions. Th e only thing that triggers is: they must fall substantially the same? Is (e)(iii) where, although there within the narrow band of the four matters contained is a change, and it’s specifi c to a “regulatory scheme that within the defi nition. But I appreciate the question. includes similar and proportionate categories for one or more other industries”…? Presumably, the threshold is B. Ralston: I’m looking at the defi nition of incentive that it has to apply to one other industry besides the LNG program in (b), where it refers to “an incentive program, industry in order to be a substantial change but without in respect of liquefaction activities, substantially the same triggering the compensation mechanism. as the program referred to in paragraph (a).” Presumably, that suggests the possibility of substituting some changed Hon. M. de Jong: Although there is a relation, I don’t program, and the operative phrase would be “substan- think the relationship exists in quite the way that the tially the same.” member has alluded. In (e)(iii) this actually represents I’m wondering how that is distinguished from, in the a narrowing of the general concept contained in the defi nition of greenhouse gas regulatory change, “a modi- legislation. Th e legislation is referring to, for the mo- fi cation”? Th en it goes on to talk about termination, but ment, the incentive program, and (iii) seeks to narrow. that doesn’t apply here. What is the distinction that’s It doesn’t refer specifi cally to that, but it is a narrowing drawn between a program that’s substantially the same of the concept. yet to be distinguished from a modifi cation of the pro- I don’t want to leave the impression with the mem- gram? Can the minister explain what the nuances of that ber that there is a direct linkage between (e)(iii) and the distinction are? specifi c incentive program contemplated in the act. [1150] Hon. M. de Jong: If we deal with it in this order, hope- fully I can be of help to the committee. B. Ralston: Well, to the reader — that is myself in this [1145] case — the incentive program refers specifi cally to regu- I think the member has correctly identifi ed the sig- lations regarding emissions and sets some standards, the nifi cance of “incentive program” and the fact that the 1.6 and the 0.23, and one can well foresee the possibility legislation contemplates the incentive program that we of modifi cation to that. Is that what’s being referred to? have tabled, or one that is substantially the same. So Or I take it from what the minister is saying that given that’s one thing. that that’s in the incentive program, those are specifi c However, the way that the definitions would work regulatory thresholds. Th is (e)(iii) does not refer to mat- together…. If you seek to modify the incentive program ters such as that. or one that is substantially the same, that modifi cation can trigger a change event and what fl ows from that, and Hon. M. de Jong: I apologize if I inadvertently added then there are the thresholds and all of that. But that’s to the confusion. Let me try this and start by going to sub how the defi nitions would work together. (e)(iii) in the agreement that the member has referenced An incentive program or one that is substantially the and point out that that relates specifi cally to the GGIRC same. But if there is a modifi cation of that incentive pro- Act. It is a further defi nition of limiting, if you will, what gram or one that is substantially the same, that is signifi - does not constitute a change event. Th ese things — sub cant because it can trigger the change event. (i), sub (ii), sub (iii) — do not, for the purposes of the agreement, constitute a change event, and that relates to B. Ralston: Th is may be useful too. I think what is be- the act itself. ing referred to in more detail is in section 3.5(e) of the Th e incentive program operates and exists separately agreement itself. Th ere is reference to, in (ii): “the repeal and apart from the act. Th at’s where I’m trying, rather and replacement of the GGIRC…with any other form… clumsily, to make the distinction for the purposes of the that is a law of general application.” I suppose the key in- question as it relates to both the legislation and the sec- terest focuses here, given these defi nitions. tion of the agreement. I’m wondering if this is…. I presume it’s consistent with the defi nitions that are set out in the act. “Th e cre- B. Ralston: Since we’re considering this point, and par- ation of a separate category of greenhouse gas or carbon ticularly the focus on liquefaction activities at a termin- emissions regulation that is specifi c to the processing in al, I am reminded of what Mr. Matt Horne posed in his British Columbia of natural gas by liquefaction…where paper about the agreement itself, which again relates to such category forms part of a greenhouse gas or carbon some of the changes that may be contemplated at some emissions regulatory scheme that includes similar and point in the future. He poses this question. 9050 British Columbia Debates Thursday, July 16, 2015

“Would other approaches to improving environmental perform- facility,” that is admittedly a signal that you are now ance, such as requiring LNG terminals to use more renewable entering the territory where indemnifications may be- energy or mandating them to inspect for methane leaks more frequently, trigger compensation?” come an issue. He does get to section 3.5(e)(iii), so that’s why I’m cit- Th ere is a second part to that analysis, which is that the ing it here. step, the measure must fall within one of the four areas “Th e response to this question is more complicated. Th e scope that qualify as a change event. It doesn’t automatically of the agreement appears to be limited to the LNG terminal. In follow that it triggers, but when you hear the phrase or if that case, new regulations or policies could be developed for a document or a proposed law were to include language upstream sources of carbon pollution without triggering com- that particularly specifi es LNG facility to the exclusion pensation. For the terminals, clause 3.5(e)(iii) could potentially prevent the province from implementing stronger climate poli- of all others, you are now getting into that second part of cies that apply exclusively to LNG terminals — e.g., a regulation the analysis, to be sure. requiring a specifi ed percentage of their electricity be sourced I move the committee rise, report progress and seek from renewable sources. It is ambiguous if such a scenario would leave to sit again. trigger compensation.” Can the minister respond to the observation of Mr. Horne, referring to this specifi c section? Motion approved. [1155] Th e committee rose at 11:59 a.m. Hon. M. de Jong: It’s kind of a two-part answer on this. First of all, I will say, and probably repeat this a few Th e House resumed; Madame Speaker in the chair. times during the course of our exchange that I think the member…. I will say this once, on the record, and I believe Committee of the Whole (Section B), having reported the member will agree. What he and others are endeav- progress, was granted leave to sit again. ouring to do is provide examples of what could happen in the future. Th ese are hypothetical examples. I will deal Hon. M. de Jong moved adjournment of the House. with them as such and hence make clear that they are not necessarily things the government is contemplating nor Motion approved. even the member may be contemplating, necessarily. When you hear about a hypothetical case or propos- Madame Speaker: Th is House, at its rising, stands ad- al or draft regulation or law that begins or ends with journed until 1:30 this aft ernoon. “and this shall apply exclusively to the LNG sector” or “this shall apply exclusively to an LNG liquefaction Th e House adjourned at 11:59 a.m. Hansard Reporting Services

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