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Vol. 762 Wednesday No. 11 10 June 2015 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Food Standards Agency................................................................................................787 Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 ..............................789 Apprentices.....................................................................................................................792 Personal Independence Payment...................................................................................795 Veterinary Nurses (Protection of Title) Bill [HL] First Reading..................................................................................................................797 International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) (Amendment) Bill [HL] First Reading..................................................................................................................797 Welfare of Women (Fertility Treatments) Bill [HL] First Reading..................................................................................................................798 Carers (Leave Entitlement) Bill [HL] First Reading..................................................................................................................798 Duchy of Cornwall Bill [HL] First Reading..................................................................................................................798 Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [HL] Second Reading..............................................................................................................798 G7 Statement........................................................................................................................811 Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [HL] Second Reading (Continued) ........................................................................................824 Gurkhas: Anniversary Question for Short Debate ..............................................................................................861 £4·00 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. 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The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative Con Ind Conservative Independent DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Lab Labour Lab Ind Labour Independent LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2015, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 787 Oaths and Affirmations[10 JUNE 2015] Food Standards Agency 788 Lord Cameron of Dillington (CB): My Lords, have House of Lords the Government done an impact assessment on the possible burden on farmers if these FSA charges are Wednesday, 10 June 2015. introduced, either in the short term in relation to the extra costs being passed on to what are very marginal 3pm businesses or in the long term, when some medium-sized abattoirs which are hugely important locally, are closed Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Derby. as a result of these possible charges? Oaths and Affirmations Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen: I thank the noble Lord for his question. This is a very important subject. The FSA does not charge farmers unless they are also 3.05 pm the operators of approved premises that slaughter or cut meat; for example, if a farmer also owned and Lord Young of Graffham took the oath, and signed an operated a slaughterhouse. As far as smaller abattoirs undertaking to abide by the Code of Conduct. are concerned, discount proposals which have been looked at by the steering group would allow smaller abattoirs to benefit consistently from the highest levels Food Standards Agency of discount. Question 3.07 pm Baroness Walmsley (LD): My Lords, last week the FSA announced its five-year strategy and at the same Asked by Lord Rooker time the Chancellor announced millions of pounds-worth To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans of departmental cuts. Can the Minister confirm that they have to allow the Food Standards Agency to the Government are not looking for further cuts from obtain full cost recovery in respect of meat inspections. this important arm of government, which would affect the protection of the nation’s health? Would that not be very short-sighted, and in the long term move Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen (Con): My Lords, the costs from Defra straight to the Department of after two previous unsuccessful projects to achieve full Health? cost recovery in 2009 and 2012, the FSA is seeking solutions by working more closely with the industry to achieve better outcomes. At present the Food Standards Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen: I will have to get Agency has no set timetable to move to full cost back to the noble Baroness with a full answer on that recovery, but the Food Standards Agency will be subject, but this is all part of the steering group reviewing this during the Parliament. consultation which, as we know, closes in two days’ time. The group has been reviewing all these items during its consultation, and we need to wait to hear Lord Rooker (Lab): Does the Minister accept that what it says before we go further. the FSA has reduced its costs to the meat industry by 40% in the last five years? The National Audit Office has given a certificate to that effect—that the charges Lord Cunningham of Felling (Lab): My Lords, since are fair. That being so, why do we continue to allow local government operates full cost recovery in respect what is, in effect, the inefficient part of this £6 billion of planning, for example, what is so special about industry to claim up to 95% discounts, costing the abattoirs and meat-cutting plants? If the Government’s public £25 million? Over the years, Ministers—Labour, intention is to subsidise the less efficient aspects of the SNP and coalition—were, to my knowledge, intensively meat industry, why do they not do that openly and lobbied not to allow the FSA to go for full cost transparently and admit that it is a subsidy, rather recovery. Will this Government now stand up for the than disguising it in the costs of the Food Standards public? Agency? Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen: My Lords, the noble Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen: My Lords, the official Lord is of course an absolute expert on this subject. controls carried out by the Food Standards Agency He was FSA chairman for four years, I think, if not are a requirement under European legislation. The even more, so he is certainly a terrific expert. The regulation that covers charging is currently subject to steering group on meat charging, an industry group, review. Final decisions in Europe are not expected was established in 2013 as a mechanism to take forward until late 2015 at the earliest. reform on areas such as the discounts on meat inspection charges. It has an independent chair and is supported and facilitated by FSA staff. It has developed proposals The Countess of Mar (CB): My Lords, does the which are currently subject to consultation, which noble Baroness agree that while it might be reasonable started on 9 March this year and will close in two to charge full costs to the multi-million pound large days’ time. The FSA intends to use the steering group and medium-sized abattoirs, we need to protect the to lead on a review of all areas, including full cost smaller abattoirs, particularly in rural areas, and those recovery. that serve artisan producers, who have specialists? 789 Food Standards Agency[LORDS] Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment 790 [THE COUNTESS OF MAR] Lord Bach (Lab): My Lords, of course I thank the I was once a goat keeper and we took our goats to a Minister for his Answer, but is he aware that everyone small abattoir. When that went, we could no longer outside the confines the Ministry of