Vol. 626 Wednesday, No. 2 25 October 2006

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Wednesday, 25 October 2006.

Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 497 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 508 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 524 Order of Business ……………………………… 525 Statement of Estimates for Houses of the Oireachtas Commission: Motion ………… 530 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Report Stage (resumed) …………… 530 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Foreign Affairs Priority Questions …………………………… 548 Other Questions …………………………… 565 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 571 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Report Stage (resumed) …………… 571 Private Members’ Business Health Services: Motion (resumed) ……………………… 620 Message from Select Committee ………………………… 656 Adjournment Debate Asylum Support Services …………………………… 657 Sugar Beet Industry …………………………… 660 Motor Taxation ……………………………… 665 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 669 497 498

DA´ IL E´ IREANN report’s finding that, from the start, the project governance has not been strong. Since the pause, ———— which was last October, “overall project govern- ance appears to have gone”. It has gone like the De´ Ce´adaoin, 25 Deireadh Fo´mhair 2006. money and nobody is in charge. Nobody is Wednesday, 25 October 2006. responsible for the disappearance of \21 million down this black hole. Is this the financial engin- ———— eering of which the Minister for Finance spoke?

Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has 10.30 a.m. concluded.

———— Mr. Kenny: The final conclusion of this consult- ants’ report is that PPARS might become a Paidir. “never ending project”. A year ago, the Prayer. Taoiseach told us that he would stop the waste, stop the rot and see that the people’s money was ———— saved. What does he propose to do about it now in light of the Astron Consulting report? Leaders’ Questions. Mr. Kenny: All over the country people are out The Taoiseach: We are spending almost \13 fundraising for vital life-saving equipment. They billion on the health service, a major proportion are running marathons, holding coffee mornings of which is going into new developments every and doing trick-or-treat campaigns. It is only a year. short time since John Aldridge took up what he called singing to raise money for a CAT scanner Mr. McCormack: Administration. in Temple Street children’s hospital. The purpose of his efforts was to provide a piece of equipment The Taoiseach: Large amounts of that expendi- that would prevent children with serious head ture are going into projects to improve the quality injuries from having to be moved to Beaumont of service for the public at every level. That is not or the Mater. People do such things because the to take away from the efforts of those engaged Government is not providing money for the in charitable fundraising acts, which have always required priorities, so where is the \13 billion happened in this country. expenditure on health going? The PPARS system has been implemented in It is just over a year since I exposed to the six Health Service Executive areas so I am sur- House the financial disaster known as the PPARS prised that Deputy Kenny is asking us to stop it. \ project. I remind the Taoiseach that 144 million To unravel it in those areas would waste money of people’s hard-earned money went down the that is effectively working. It is supporting the tubes in a system that underpays and misspends. human resource records for 70,000 staff on the It does everything except what it is supposed to payroll and a large amount of other projects in do. In response to that matter, the Taoiseach said those Health Service Executive areas. As I said he would freeze the project, stop the rot and halt last year, the further roll-out of the scheme, other the waste. Neither the Taoiseach nor his Govern- than in the six areas where it is working, is on ment did that, however. The Da´il was misled hold. It currently remains on hold and no further about that matter because he did not stop the work has taken place in those areas. The review project, nor did he stop the waste. carried out by the HSE since October 2005 con- I have a copy of the Astron Consulting report, cluded, first, that no long-term strategy should be which was published in September this year. The adopted until the use of the system in existing report, which is a fundamental review of the PPARS project review, is worth reading. It does sites is maximised and fully operational. That is not need any sexing up because its findings are what they are concentrating on. Second, the so stark. The report’s conclusions are that the review concluded that the requirements of the PPARS project was “badly conceived” and “po- new unified HSE structure should be clarified orly implemented”. It also states that “the system and that the PPARS project’s capacity to fulfil is not stable yet” and “reflects the old (health these requirements should be verified. board) structure”. In addition, it states that “the Deputy Kenny will recall that the HSE did not ongoing costs are very high”. This year, the exist when the PPARS project began. When the Government spent over \21 million—— HSE started, therefore, one had to take account of the new structure, which is only in its second An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has year. That work will take place over the next concluded. eight to nine months, led by the HSE’s national director of services. That person is responsible for Mr. Kenny: ——and it is proposed to do the co-ordinating the activity and is implementing same again next year. An even bigger shock is the the project. 499 Leaders’ 25 October 2006. Questions 500

[The Taoiseach.] charge and money is disappearing down the tube. Sanction is pending for a capital cost of \2.844 Will the Taoiseach tell the Da´il today what he million sought by the HSE for this year. No sanc- proposes to do about this? Who is in charge of tion has yet been agreed by the Department so no this project? The Astron report states that there allocation has been sanctioned this year. Deputy is no governance and nobody is in charge or Kenny mentioned a figure of \21 million but the responsible. Where is the Minister for Health and overall cost estimate for the project in 2006 is Children or the HSE while this Government is \4.31 million, which is a recurring cost for the continuing to wilfully squander the people’s system as it is operating, including software, taxes? What does the Taoiseach propose to do? system-hosting and payroll support. There is a fig- ure of \15.18 million for HSE staff and technical The Taoiseach: I have already stated who is in consultancy staff. These costs will continue to charge of the programme, namely the national reduce as the system beds in. Unfortunately, we director of shared services. Deputy Kenny can have not found a way of bringing in a new system quote from the report but I will give a more that does not involve staff, and they must be paid. balanced interpretation. The Astron report states \ There is also a once-off cost of 1.55 million for that PPARS is working quite well in some areas hardware and consultancy. but that overall disappointment exists at what is Like all large organisations, the HSE requires being delivered. That is what I said one year ago. comprehensive human resource support and pay- It confirms that any further roll-out decision is on roll systems. Like other sectors, the HSE could hold and recommends that it should be based on not cover the entire country without using mod- the new HSE structure, which is now 20 months ern technological systems. There have been diffi- old. We all agree with that. culties with the PPARS system, as there have The report goes on to state that this would been with IT systems all over the world. have to be with the support and participation of However, it is unreasonable for Deputy Kenny to senior management, which is obvious, and that ask the HSE not to continue to bed down the complexity surrounding staff terms and con- new system. ditions would have to be removed. We all know that the old health board system had a variety of Mr. Kenny: That is the usual answer given by health boards around the country in which people the Taoiseach on these matters. I am not sure worked under differing terms, conditions, con- whether the Taoiseach has been briefed on the tracts and work practices. That was the reason four additional factors set out in the report, namely that there was no clear demand from we decided, in 2001, to introduce a unified health management for the system and that manage- system, the Health Service Executive, which has ment support was weak and has become weaker come into effect and is working successfully — since the pause; substantial variations existed in although in a difficult position — towards imple- pay and conditions, organisational structures, cul- menting a policy on the more than 100,000 health tures and processes among agencies, the extent of service staff who are working hard throughout which was not known before the commencement the country. The report states that it is difficult to of the project; there was an inability to defini- identify realised cost savings in sites where the tively freeze the business blueprints or require- system has been implemented but that project ments at any particular point in time; and there staff levels were reduced from approximately 500 was a failure to comprehensively follow through to 254 by May, and it gives the cost of the project. on the pilot site implementation strategy before The report’s recommendations are that a long- rolling it out throughout the country. term plan is required by the HSE, that as a first In terms of incompetence, the same applies in step, the HSE should stabilise the system in exist- every other issue for which this Government is ing life sites and that we should address issues, responsible. Last year, the Government spent \21 including complexity, arising from variations in million on this project. This morning I listened to terms and conditions. That is why we set up the Fr. Peter McVerry, who said that young offenders HSE. The report goes on to advise that we should were being allowed to rot in a warehouse and that improve ownership and governance. I have literacy programmes were being cut in our already stated that responsibility for this is with prisons. This money could have supplied 100 the national director of shared services for the public health nurses, while \20 million could buy health board. The report also recommends that 1 million hours of home help. A nine-bed inten- we should have more management and infor- sive care unit could be built for only \2.5 million. mation needs, identify requirements for transfer The Taoiseach could have given a CAT scanner to shared services and agree steps for a transition to Temple Street Hospital, in his constituency. A to a single integrated HSE structure. That is pre- dialysis machine costs \35,000 and a mobile x-ray cisely what is happening. In referring to the issues unit costs \40,000. raised in the report, Deputy Kenny stopped when Nobody is in charge over there and the Astron it came to the recommendations. They are in the report of September clearly points out what we same report and, if the Deputy turns over the predicted last year with regard to the PPARS page, he can read them. That is what is project. Nobody is responsible, nobody is in happening. 501 Leaders’ 25 October 2006. Questions 502

Mr. Kenny: It says it is a never ending project more than \1,300 million in compensation paid with nobody in charge. out by the Government for the abuse of young people in residential institutions. The Taoiseach The Taoiseach: We do need a unified system. will recall that the State voluntarily agreed to pick It would have been great if the information tech- up the charges and costs in cases to which it was nology experts working on this system had been not and could not have been a party. When I able to get it right on day one. asked the Taoiseach why this decision was made, he said: “The Irish church does not have those Mr. Durkan: That is right — just like elec- resources.” He also said he makes no apology for tronic voting. spending \1,300 million in taxpayers’ money on discharging this liability when the State was not a The Taoiseach: They have completed a sub- party and could not have been made a party stantial part of the work and payrolls and rosters because the church did not have the resources. in six areas have been agreed. They ran into the What about the woman who does not have fact that conditions, rosters and terms differed resources, who was sexually abused and suffered among health boards. In the old system, we did catastrophic injuries and who now faces the seiz- not even know how many people were working ure of her home to discharge costs of \500,000 for the health boards. because the State will not admit liability? By claiming the teacher was not its agent, the State Dr. Twomey: The Government still does not pleaded successfully that it did not have liability know. and it is now pursuing the woman for the charges. Should not the same conditions be applied to that Mr. McHugh: We do not know what they are woman out of compassion as those applied in doing either. respect of the sloppy, secret and negligent deal conducted through Deputy Woods which the An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach to Taoiseach tried to justify? continue without interruption, please. The Taoiseach: I will address both issues. The Taoiseach: That is why we established the Obviously, I cannot comment on the circum- Health Service Executive, why we are now get- stances of a case that is before the Supreme Court ting value for money and are able to implement a but, when the case concluded in the High Court better programme and why this Government has last March, I made it clear that the Government been successful in developing a proper integrated had asked the State Claims Agency — the statu- health system—— tory body which deals with legal fees — to Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The Government has only approach the issue of costs in a measured and been successful at wasting money. sensitive way. The woman lost her case in the High Court and, because there was a large bill, I The Taoiseach: ——that has reduced waiting said we would do that. I understand the State times for patients, improved the numbers of day Claims Agency told the lady’s solicitor on the patients and has far more staff working on front- record at an early meeting that while some line services. It is another credit to this arrangements would have to made regarding Government. costs there was no question whatsoever of her losing her house — so that does not arise. Mr. Durkan: If that is a credit, I am worried. However, the lady’s solicitor informed the agency that she intended to appeal the case to the Mr. Rabbitte: I want to raise the case of the Supreme Court, so obviously I could not go any separated mother of two who faces the prospect further. If she did not want us to deal sympatheti- of having \500,000 in costs pursued against her cally and in a measured way with the issue at the by the State in respect of a damages action she end of the High Court case, but wished to pro- took over the sexual abuse she suffered while ceed to the Supreme Court, as was her right, then attending primary school. Deputies will recall I could do nothing. In any case the High Court that the principal of the school concerned was has put a stay on the costs pending the termin- jailed after being found guilty of 21 charges of ation of the Supreme Court appeal, so I can go indecent assault from a sample of 380 counts no further in that. relating to 21 girls. The State successfully sought On the second issue raised by the Deputy, to deny liability for the actions of the teacher, 14,000 applications have been made by people in even though he was employed by the State. We residential institutions to the redress board. now have a situation in which the woman, who These are vulnerable people who were in insti- was described by Mr. Justice de Valera as having tutions, either sent there by the State or under suffered catastrophic injuries as a result of the joint authority by the State, which was jointly unforgivable actions of a teacher, faces the seiz- responsible. When seven years ago I gave the ure of her only asset, the family home. apology for how these people were treated, This should be contrasted with the issue I because their lives were ruined and destroyed, we raised yesterday with the Taoiseach regarding the said we would set up a redress board — the 503 Leaders’ 25 October 2006. Questions 504

[The Taoiseach.] Mr. Rabbitte: ——where she received what numbers have increased from the originally envis- was described by the judge as catastrophic injur- aged 6,500 to 7,000 cases — and to give these ies, the Minister with responsibility has said the people awards of court. This was the right and costs will be prosecuted against her. In those cir- humane thing to do. The State would have had to cumstances it is not for the Taoiseach to say that pay for these charges. In our view the State was her home is not at risk: that is not how the system responsible. They were State institutions or insti- works. If she is responsible for the \500,000 and tutions run by religious to which the State sent that is her only asset, then her home is at risk. these people. The State, in our view, is liable for that. The figures are higher, but we will not stop The Taoiseach: They are two separate cases, as half way down and state we cannot pay the the Deputy knows. I am not responsible for the people involved. There was the deadline of last lady pursuing the case to the Supreme Court — December which showed that we would have that is her right, so I have no comment to make cumulative average awards of approximately about that. However, when the issue arose fol- \76,000 and legal and administrative costs of lowing her High Court case I made it very clear approximately 20%. We have paid those costs. I on the record of this House that we had asked make no apology for paying those people to the State Claims Agency, the statutory body that whom I made an apology and for whom we set deals with these cases, to approach the issues of up a redress system. costs in a measured and sensitive way. The issue today was that she would lose her house. I was Mr. Rabbitte: That is not the issue. The issue putting on the record that the lady was told last is that if the Taoiseach sent out Deputy Woods spring on the record at a very early meeting that to do this secret deal because the church did not arrangements would have to be made regarding have the resources, why does the same principle costs because she lost her case. There was no not apply in this case? In reply to a parliamentary question whatsoever of her losing her house. The question tabled by Deputy O’Sullivan, who raised solicitor came back to advise that she would go the issue after the Taoiseach made his remarks to the Supreme Court, as is her right, so I cannot about the measured response, the nice Minister get involved. As I said, the High Court has put a for Education and Science replied as follows. This stay on the costs order anyway, so the issue does was in the case of the mother of two facing the not arise until the end of the Supreme Court costs of \500,000 and the loss of her home. The stage. However, the house issue does not arise bossy Minister for Education and Science said: at all. The State has a responsibility to the taxpayer While I know the Deputy knows the answer, to to fight cases where it knows it has a strong avoid confusion let me say the State was liable defence. In that context, it is also natural to jointly for children it took into care and that was seek an order for costs when it successfully the point. We were liable for that. If we were defends a case. That was the formal considered going to apologise to them, say we would com- response written for her by her departmental pensate them and set up a redress board for them, officials and parroted faithfully here by the nice the ultimate number was a matter for the inde- Minister for Education and Science after the pendent redress board to look at the cases and Taoiseach’s measured words. decide whether we were liable and it was for us to pay them the costs. The Deputy can either agree or disagree with that. I know the Deputy An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has believes we should have—— concluded. Mr. Rabbitte: The Taoiseach voluntarily Mr. Rabbitte: What do his measured words agreed to discharge—— amount to? Of course, the woman concerned has no choice but to appeal to the Supreme Court An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach to where the Government will claim in defence that speak without interruption. it has no legal responsibility for the actions of teachers in such circumstances. However, here we Mr. Rabbitte: ——costs where the State was have a circumstance where the Taoiseach not a party and was subsequently made a party. believes on the one hand an organisation can cap its liability at £100 million for people abused in The Taoiseach: I am answering the Deputy’s residential institutions with the State picking up question. I was not going to get into a position of the remaining \1.2 billion, while on the other saying we would put a cap on the number of hand in a case involving an individual citizen people who could enter the redress system or a where the principal was jailed for sexual cap on the money going out. We did not do that. abuse—— These were people we were entitled to look after. We have all heard horror stories about these An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has people and we need to be sincere about what concluded. we did. 505 Leaders’ 25 October 2006. Questions 506

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The Government was trying undercut each other with policies on stamp duty? to look after the woman too. Nothing will be done about house prices as a result of that. Any auctioneer will advise that Ms O’Sullivan: What happened was horrific. there is a stalling of the market as it waits to ascertain whether any of these things will happen. The Taoiseach: If I did not honour those com- Over the past two years my colleague, Deputy mitments, I would have been in here week after Boyle, the Green Party’s finance spokesperson, week saying why I did not. The fact is I honoured has proposed targeted reforms to the stamp duty the commitments and we will finish that process. regime that would benefit older persons who wish The State is not liable for abuse by teachers or to downsize — they should be facilitated — and others — they are not State employees. In one people with disabilities who need to move house case the State was liable jointly for children it for accessibility reasons. took into care and in the other case it was not. Mr. F. McGrath: Hear, hear. Mr. Rabbitte: Whose employees are they? Mr. Sargent: Will the Taoiseach implement The Taoiseach: If Deputy Rabbitte is stating these measured and targeted recommendations, the State should have no responsibility to fight which have been rejected by the Government? cases where it knows it has a strong defence, that Has he given thought to the matter and what will would be an extraordinary thing for any state to he do to assist older persons and those with do. accessibility needs to obtain housing? Such assist- ance could represent a start in respect of reforms. Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Who paid the teachers? The Taoiseach: Our overall strategy is to An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Jim O’Keeffe is increase housing supply to meet demand and to not even in the Labour Party. Allow the improve affordability, particularly for first-time Taoiseach to speak without interruption. buyers.

The Taoiseach: I have made clear what we Mr. Sargent: What about older people? would try to do for this lady after the High Court case and I am not in a position to make any The Taoiseach: We are investing heavily in further comment on the matter until after the infrastructure to deliver high levels of housing. Supreme Court case. One third of all the houses in the country have been built in the past nine years. We are putting Mr. McCormack: The Taoiseach might have a greater focus on building active and successful whip around. communities through quality housing.

Mr. Sargent: One of the worst inflationary Ms Burton: But no schools. pressures on individuals and families relates to house prices. The gap has widened hugely The Taoiseach: The Deputy is six weeks too between personal disposable income and the early for the financial statement for 2007. price of a house, and is now at a ratio of 11:1. Will the Taoiseach take any corrective action on Mr. Boyle: We have the pre-budget statement. the matter? We have heard a number of announcements from the Taoiseach, the Minister The Taoiseach: It will be released on this day for Finance, Deputy Cowen, and the Ta´naiste all in six weeks. saying different things. The Taoiseach is on the On the stamp duty issue, I appreciate the con- record as saying people should buy, and would be structive comments made by Deputy Boyle and foolish not to buy and listen to the naysayers as others and I am sure all of them will be con- he calls them, although others might call them sidered. Stamp duty applies to a range of prop- experts. Effectively the Taoiseach is talking up erty and other transactions, as Deputy Sargent the housing market with his comments. knows. These include residential and commercial The Ta´naiste has said the Government would transactions and also share dealings and bank abolish stamp duty, which has had a knock-on levies. effect — he suggested the Government has so The yield from stamp duty last year was in the much money that it does not know region of \2.7 billion. The source of revenue 11 o’clock what to do with it. The Minister for makes a significant contribution to investment in Finance said he would not interfere, public services, including health care and edu- despite all the property tax breaks that have cer- cation. There is no stamp duty chargeable on tainly interfered with the market over the years. owner-occupiers of new houses with a floor area Will the Taoiseach make a clear statement of less than 125 sq. m. First-time owner-occupiers Government policy on the matter that will are treated more favourably owing to changes the address the problems people are facing rather Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, made some than having this Dutch auction politics, in which years ago. When it comes to purchasing second- even Fine Gael has involved itself, trying to hand properties, they are exempt from stamp 507 Ceisteanna — 25 October 2006. Questions 508

[The Taoiseach.] would try to address the matter over the summer duty on houses worth up to \317,500 and they and that he was giving me a serious answer to a benefit from reduced rates on houses worth up serious question. How serious was his answer? to \635,000. The summer is gone and we are still trying to deal Approximately one third of all stamp duty with the difficulty posed by house prices. Will he comes from residential property — that is all. implement properly the recommendations of Recent comments, while not made by Deputy which he stated he was in favour? Sargent, imply that it all comes from residential property. The Taoiseach: A number of points arise and there is no point in my going back over the stamp Mr. Boyle: The Taoiseach should look at his duty issues. On the Deputy’s point that we are Cabinet, for God’s sake. accruing far more than expected from stamp duty, I was pointing out where it comes from. It is not Mr. Sargent: And his Ta´naiste. simply derived from residential property but from a range of sources. An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach to The resources that accrue from stamp duty are continue without interruption. used. Every year, we invest approximately \1 billion more in health care. We have invested The Taoiseach: I am just trying to be helpful to \500 million in the capital programme for first Deputy Sargent. It is estimated that, in the cur- \ and second level schools and the welfare package rent year, only 70 million of stamp duty, out of for this year amounted to \1 billion. a total yield of \2.7 billion, will be from first-time buyers. The Government is always prepared to Mr. Sargent: I referred to house prices. listen to arguments and debates but one should note that over one third of stamp duty on houses The Taoiseach: As I said at the outset, our is derived from the more expensive upper end of policy has been to increase supply — we have the market. done so. We used to build approximately 25,000 I do not believe the Deputy is arguing for houses per year and we now build 80,000 per houses worth between \1 million and \2 million. year. Affordability is a key issue for the Govern- ment. In fairness to the Government, it amended Mr. Sargent: They cost that. Part V of the Planning and Development Act and also launched the affordable housing initiative. The Taoiseach: The point is that, of the \2.7 \ billion received from stamp duty, only 70 million Mr. Cuffe: The Government filleted it. relates to first-time buyers. The case is not as it is sometimes presented. The Taoiseach: All of these measures were designed to increase supply. Mr. Sargent: Most of the Taoiseach’s reply, which alluded to building more houses, is prob- Mr. Sargent: Why did the Taoiseach scrap—— ably good news for Paddy the Plasterer but it is not very good news for many house buyers. The The Taoiseach: The latest programme, which reality is that the thresholds are meaningless in pertains to the period 2007 to 2009, involves many parts of Dublin. One will not get a house 27,000 affordable houses. Overall, the prog- for less than the thresholds. I understand the ramme will meet the needs of 60,000 households \ stamp duty take for this year is approximately 70 in the various schemes in the social housing million in excess of expectations. The Govern- category. ment is raking it in. We are proceeding with the proposed legis- About four months ago, I asked the Taoiseach lation concerning zoned land which developers about a similar matter, that is, the famous Report hold for a period before selling. It is the key part of the Committee on the Price of Building Land, of the Kenny inquiry and we are still proceeding which cost 27.5p in 1973. The committee reported with it. I still intend to bring in that legislation. to the then Minister for Local Government. The report was reviewed by the all-party committee Mr. Sargent: When? in April 2004 and was still found to be necessary. I asked the Taoiseach about it because land prices Mr. Cuffe: What did the Government do over comprise approximately 45% or 50% of house the summer? prices in the Dublin area. Basically builders are \ walking away with approximately 250,000 Ceisteanna — Questions. before foundations are even laid. Will the Taoiseach do anything about this ———— matter? When I asked him about it, he said he was and still is in favour of the Kenny report. I Decentralisation Programme. asked about the legislation and he said it was being drafted, that he was pressing to get on with 1. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the number it and that he did not agree with me. He said he of staff in his Department who have applied for 509 Ceisteanna — 25 October 2006. Questions 510 relocation under the decentralisation programme; is the Taoiseach’s view in that regard? My ques- and if he will make a statement on the matter. tions are confined to the Department of the [28210/06] Taoiseach because I know the Ceann Comhairle will knock me if I ask anything else. 2. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of the decentralis- The Taoiseach: Of the 213 staff in my Depart- ation programme as it affects his Department. ment, 39 have applied to decentralise. They [29222/06] include seven assistant principal officers, three higher executive officers, nine executive officers, 3. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will two staff officers and 11 clerical officers. Ten report on the implementation of the decentralis- former members of staff have already been ation programme as it affects his Department; assigned to decentralised posts. The total number and if he will make a statement on the matter. of officials is 49 — ten officials have already [30665/06] moved and a further 39 officials are listed. They will go to a range of places. I do not have the 4. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the exact numbers for each of the agencies. Some number of staff in his Department who have have applied to be transferred to Ordnance Sur- applied for relocation under the Government’s vey Ireland in Dungarvan, the National Standards decentralisation programme; the number that Authority of Ireland in Arklow, the probation have been relocated; and if he will make a state- and welfare service in Navan, the National Roads ment on the matter. [30877/06] Authority in Ballinasloe, the National Edu- cational Welfare Board in Portarlington, 5. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach Development Co-operation Ireland in Limerick, if he will report on the implementation of the Sustainable Energy Ireland in Dundalk, the decentralisation programme as it affects his Garda headquarters in Thurles, Area Develop- Department; and if he will make a statement on ment Management Limited in Clifden, the Valua- the matter. [34471/06] tion Office in Youghal and the Prison Service in Longford. In most of the cases I know of, having The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions spoken to the individuals in question, it seems Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together. that people decided to apply for decentralisation Thirty-nine staff currently serving in my to get near home or to go back to their roots. Department have applied through the Central Their motivation usually relates to such concerns Applications Facility to relocate under the decen- rather than to the individual offices. People want tralisation programme. The breakdown by grade to get away from Dublin and get back home. is: assistant principal officer, seven; higher execu- tive officer, three; administrative officer, seven; Mr. Kenny: Will there be a campaign of recruit- executive officer, nine; staff officer, two; and ment to replace the people in the Department of clerical officer, 11. Ten former members of staff the Taoiseach who have opted for relocation? In have already been assigned to decentralised other words, will the numbers continue to be posts. the same? Arrangements are in place to ensure that the decentralisation of staff does not impact nega- The Taoiseach: The staff numbers will be the tively on the quality of the services provided by same, although we have to achieve a small the Department. These arrangements include the reduction every year. Under the Department of phased redeployment of some of the remaining Finance’s guidelines, we have to try to achieve a staff to the areas of the Department most affected 3% reduction every year over a three-year by decentralisation and the provision of training period. I am sure that approach will continue into and job profiles/work manuals to new staff, as the future. For the last two years, departmental appropriate. officials who want to participate in the decentra- That 18% of the staff of my Department have lisation programme have been moving into posts opted to relocate outside Dublin shows that the in agencies and Departments which are to be underlying decision to initiate a comprehensive moved. People who have decided to stay in decentralisation programme was the correct one. Dublin — they may be from Dublin or elsewhere Deputies will be aware that there are no pro- — have usually made such decisions based on posals to decentralise my Department or any of their age and the ages of their family members. the bodies under its aegis. Such people are filling the posts which are being vacated. These changes are taking place in the Mr. Kenny: Perhaps the staff want to get out public service in an organised way. Some people because they realise there is to be a change of might argue that the pace of change is slow, but regime. Obviously, I cannot prove this yet. it is not possible to do it in any other way with What grades in the Taoiseach’s Department the staff associations. People are leaving jobs have opted for relocation? What are the numbers which are not due to be decentralised. Some posi- involved? Is it ten, 20 or 30? Have they requested tions in the Department of the Taoiseach will not relocation based on where they come from? What be decentralised, although jobs in two areas will 511 Ceisteanna — 25 October 2006. Questions 512

[The Taoiseach.] example in the area of information technology. be moved to new locations. People in other agen- A great deal of it would probably be happening cies who do not want to move from Dublin are anyway, but more of it is happening as a con- filling positions in my Department. The prog- sequence of the movements which are taking ramme is working on an organised basis and will place. continue to do so over a period of time. I under- stand that approximately 1,000 people are already Mr. Rabbitte: The Taoiseach mentioned that on the move. That number will increase progres- infrastructure is visible. What is his view on the sively over a number of years. Economic and Social Research Institute’s com- ment that the State is spending \1 billion on Mr. Sargent: The Taoiseach told us in February offices for civil servants who already have offices? of this year that his Department would lose The Taoiseach has said he can see officials mov- approximately 20% of its staff as a result of ing every day in the Department, but how does decentralisation. He said that the problems that accord with the fact that fewer than 750 resulting from those changes would be eased by officials are prepared to move by the end of this means of the redeployment and retraining of cur- year, when the initial target was 10,300? rent staff. How will that procedure be put in place? What procedures are in place for that An Ceann Comhairle: The questions before the retraining and redeployment? Given that it seems House refer specifically to the Department of the fairly extensive, has the Department taken Taoiseach. Questions on decentralisation are account of a cost for it? The Taoiseach indicated matters for the Minister for Finance in the first in February that 45 staff in his Department had instance, and then for the line Ministers. These opted to relocate. Will those people be moved questions refer specifically to the Taoiseach and over the long term? Will those changes happen at his Department. a certain pace? Does the Taoiseach expect them to be moved in advance of the forthcoming Mr. Rabbitte: Yes. Arising from the experience general election? of the Taoiseach in his Department, is it not time to admit that the political stroke to transfer The Taoiseach: I said on a previous occasion 10,300 civil servants is in a shambles and—— that 45 officials in my Department had applied for decentralisation — that figure has since An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise. increased to 49. Ten members of staff have moved on and the others are in the system. The Mr. Rabbitte: ——that we need to go back to restructuring process under the Central Appli- the drawing board? cations Facility is ongoing. I assure the Deputy An Ceann Comhairle: I suggest that the that civil servants are not worried about the elec- Deputy submit a question to the relevant tion because they will still be there on the other Minister. side of it, regardless of who else is there. The movement of staff within and between Depart- Mr. Rabbitte: My question derives from the ments and offices is taking place at a steady pace. Taoiseach’s experience in his Department. The Approximately 2,300 officials have been assigned decentralisation programme is not happening in to posts which will be decentralised. That rep- the Department of the Taoiseach. It will not be resents approximately 30% of the total number delivered. It is damaging the Civil Service. It is of jobs to be relocated. It is moving progressively. duplicating buildings. It is creating a parallel Civil It will not be as quick as we intended it to be. It Service. Does the Taoiseach agree that we should will be like the programme in the 1990s, when go back to the drawing board for a negotiated approximately 4,500 people were decentralised and planned programme of voluntary decentra- more slowly than was anticipated. It is moving. I lisation? understand that contracts are being agreed for the 39 buildings and structures which are to be An Ceann Comhairle: The questions before the built at the various locations. As people notice House refer specifically to the Department of what is happening, such as the completion of the the Taoiseach. physical infrastructure, they will be more inclined to join the panel. It is certainly moving. Hardly a The Taoiseach: The things mentioned by week or month goes by without somebody mov- Deputy Rabbitte are happening in my Depart- ing, as one can tell by the extent of staff move- ment. Progress is being made with the Central ment in one’s own Department. Applications Facility and in the discussions with the staff associations. My Department and all Mr. Sargent: Is there a cost for retraining? other Departments and agencies are working their way through the system. It will be slower The Taoiseach: As retraining is being done by than we anticipated. That has to be the case the Department of Finance, it is a question for because the programme is voluntary. We are that Department. Considerable programmes of working our way through the system. I would not training and retraining are being organised, for say it is a failure in the Department of the 513 Ceisteanna — 25 October 2006. Questions 514

Taoiseach, or that it is not working there. We 2007? It is expected that a further 2,000 relo- have moved to a position where it is working. cations will occur during this period. Some 20% of the staff of my Department will The Taoiseach made a statement on the State move under the decentralisation programme. agencies earlier. Can he clarify his response That is a high number, on any base. That almost regarding those agencies under the control of his 50 people, from just over 200 people, are pre- Department? pared to relocate demonstrates that it is working. I concede that it is slower than we hoped, but The Taoiseach: I think more people will apply there are many reasons for that. Some of the to be moved under decentralisation and 20% of reasons are good and some of them are not so the Department has already moved. The Minister good. We have to provide for retraining and give for Finance informs me there are 34 locations people opportunities in areas like technology. I under development around the country and, as do not think it affects the service in any way. this rolls out, people from my Department will When I deal with a range of Departments which join the list as has happened over the past are involved in the decentralisation programme, number of years. there are no great difficulties. It will be even less Some specialists might also move. Some of the of a problem as technology improves and agencies in my Department have specialists and advances. very talented people. However, they are not scientists or microbiologists as in other Depart- Mr. Rabbitte: What about the comment made ments and agencies. People may leave from the by the ESRI? area of statistics and this could create difficulties which would necessitate retraining. The Taoiseach: Many of the buildings which The Marine Institute moved to Galway and are held by the OPW are also on saleable leases. only a small number of employees chose not to If Departments move, including some Depart- move as a result. A very technical area of the ments near here, they can sell on some very lucra- Department of Communications, Marine and tive contracts. We need to consider what the bot- Natural Resources has moved to Clonakilty. tom line figure for that will be in five or ten years These things work themselves out over time. time. One can receive far better offers throughout There must be a means of negotiation and, with the country, as we all know. Some of the build- negotiation, the process will work. ings which are held are quite expensive. I do not refer to the old traditional buildings, but to build- Benchmarking Awards. ings which have been leased and rented by the 6. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the cost OPW. We have to take that into the equation. I which has accrued to his Department in respect am not certain about the ESRI. If we are to have of the payment of the benchmarking pay awards; balanced regional development, we need to stop and if he will make a statement on the matter. the growth of Dublin over the next 20 or 25 years. [28211/06] I think Deputy Rabbitte will agree that we do not want to have 2 million people, from a total 7. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the cost of population of 5 million, living in Dublin. I do not benchmarking to his Department; and if he will suggest that decentralisation will bring an end to make a statement on the matter. [34119/06] all of these problems — I am not making that argument. We must ensure this city is not The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions crippled by its population. This does not happen Nos. 6 and 7 together. in other countries. Balanced regional develop- The benchmarking phases were implemented ment means the State has a role to play in moving in my Department with 25% of the increase from people and industry to the regions in every pos- 1 December 2001 paid in June 2003. The total sible way and we must be aggressive in doing so. cost to December 2003 was approximately The 10,000 people represent a small part because, \405,000. A further 50% of the increase was paid even if they went tomorrow, they are only 10,000 from 1 January 2004 at an approximate cost of out of 4.3 million people. We must stop the \491,000 for that year and the final 25% of the strangulation of the Dublin area which is neither increase was paid from 1 June 2005 at an approxi- good for Dublin nor the rest of the country. mate cost of \150,000 for that year. The full year cost of the increases, in total, is estimated at Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The latest report by \800,000 for 2006. the Decentralisation Implementation Group, Under the terms of Sustaining Progress, the DIG, points out that there is a low level of pay increases recommended by the Public Service interest among what is described as expert staff. Benchmarking Body were conditional on delivery Is this reflected in the Department of the of real and verifiable outputs in relation to mod- Taoiseach? Does the Taoiseach recognise this ernisation and flexibility. The key mechanisms for point? Can the Taoiseach tell us if there are monitoring overall progress in this regard were further decentralisation plans relating to staff in the reports on action plans prepared by individual his Department and will further staff be taking up Departments and offices, a general review by the opportunities during the remainder of 2006 and Department of Finance and verification by the 515 Ceisteanna — 25 October 2006. Questions 516

[The Taoiseach.] veys are now conducted to measure the Depart- Civil Service Performance Verification Group. ment’s performance against commitments made The group concluded that the progress achieved in the charter. Those who use the Department are warranted payment to the grades concerned in given a questionnaire seeking opinions on service my Department. and everything from time calls to memorandums. The eCabinet project is an innovative system, Mr. Kenny: Over the past five years the electronically supported, and enabling the admin- Government has recruited almost 40,000 extra istrative process associated with the preparation staff and paid around \1.3 billion through the for and conduct of Government business. The benchmarking process. This includes the Depart- Department has won awards for this system. It ment of the Taoiseach where, I understand, legal was mainly implemented by civil servants with staff has doubled and communications staff has some outside expertise. increased by 55%. The Taoiseach’s Department These are some of the advances made in the will spend \143 million more this year than when Department which were put forward to the verifi- he came to office and most of that is related to cation group and are now fully implemented. salaries. The Taoiseach refers to real and verifiable out- Mr. Sargent: Will the systems of performance puts and suggests the basis for determining these measurement in operation in the Taoiseach’s lay in the action plans produced by each Depart- Department change in advance of the next round ment and assessed by the Civil Service Perform- of benchmarking? Is the Taoiseach planning any ance Verification Group. Regarding bench- initiatives to award top performers in his Depart- marking payments in the Taoiseach’s ment? Are his special advisers covered by bench- Department, what were the three priority outputs marking in the same way as other staff in the that were to be achieved under the benchmarking Department? There is a particular issue regarding programme? What are the three essential differ- contract workers and benchmarking. There is ences people can see in the Department relating often short notice — one could almost say no to increased efficiency and better public service? notice — given on the expiry or renewal of con- tracts. Given that many of the people involved The Taoiseach: Everyone had to put forward are parents and have other responsibilities, is it a plan and the plan I submitted relating to my possible to determine whether benchmarking can Department covered four broad areas on which cover contract workers in the Department of the management and staff collaborated. Those areas Taoiseach? Can better notice be given regarding were human resource management, financial the expiry of contracts? management, quality customer service and tech- nological innovation. More competitive pro- The Taoiseach: I will examine that. Currently, motion processes were introduced while the per- contract workers are not really in the system. formance management and development system, Like advisers, they operate on a different contract PMDS, relating to the management of perform- basis. If one was a contract worker for a number ance in the civil service was implemented. There of years, one would fall considerably behind his was a central timeframe. The process related to or her benchmarked colleagues. training and to implementing the guidelines set The Department’s management group is exam- down by the Department of Finance regarding ining the initiatives it would like to have included performance management and lowering staff lev- in the Civil Service performance verification els in the Department by 2% through individuals group’s deliberations in the next round. This taking on new roles and functions and integrat- would include extending it into e-Cabinet and ing sections. Cabinet sub-committees. The Cabinet element The Department introduced a new financial and movement within Departments have been management system, the Oracle programme, well bedded down. However, they are examining designed to give more information and control. It other extensions that are three years away. Issues deals with costs and inputs and allows for more ranging from the knowledge society to dealing transparency such as allocating cost heads to indi- with EU business have been raised in the cus- viduals. People in the Department are now able tomer surveys. There are other areas where to identify where money is going, not only to Departments see potential for further modernis- sections but to individuals. This programme has ation. There are also regular circulars on modern- been fully implemented in the Department and isation issued by the Department of Finance to allows for much better monthly reporting than other Departments. previously. It fits in with the Office of the No decision has yet been made on the oper- Comptroller and Auditor General and so on. The ation of bonus payments for civil servants, but it method of reporting achieved is far better as it is is an issue. In the last round of benchmarking, meaningful for individual sections in that they can those who prepared the report stated that the see areas for which they are responsible. It has issue of bonuses should be examined and the improved efficiency and service. Government should take a view on it. It is a diffi- A customer charter was developed, as was the cult issue to deal with and it was not dealt with case in other Departments. Annual customer sur- in the last round. I am in favour of it in principle, 517 Ceisteanna — 25 October 2006. Questions 518 but we need to examine how it can work best. If have been in government, we have published an senior officials within one Department were to annual progress report which sets out the pro- receive bonus payments, what does it say about gress to date in implementing every commitment senior officials in another Department? Perhaps contained within the programme for Govern- the former were dealing with hotter political ment. The last edition of the Government pro- issues or more difficult legislation. Those are gress report was published in the summer of 2005. some of the problems that arise. On the other It is our intention to publish a further report in hand, it is somewhat unfair if an able individual early 2007. is out-performing his or her colleagues, yet only It is the responsibility of each individual Mini- gets paid the same as everybody else. The prac- ster to ensure that the commitments in the prog- tice in industry is fairer in that if one is a top ramme that fall within his or her particular port- performer, one will be in line for bonuses. It is folio are fully implemented. The Department of not an unreasonable position. Because the whole theory of benchmarking is based on the compari- the Taoiseach derives its mandate from my role son between industry and the public service, the as head of Government. As such, it is involved to issue of bonuses is one that needs to be some degree in virtually all aspects of the work addressed. While I do not have the answer as to of Government. It provides support to me as how this can be done, it requires further Taoiseach and to the Government through the examination. Government secretariat, the Cabinet committee system and through its involvement in key policy Programmes for Government. areas and initiatives. The current key strategic priorities of the 8. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will Department are set out in its strategy statement. report on the implementation of An Agreed They include Northern Ireland, EU and inter- Programme for Government; and if he will make national affairs, economic and social policy, social a statement on the matter. [28212/06] partnership, public service modernisation and the information society and e-government. I and the 9. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach Ministers of State in my Department answer if he will report on the progress in the implemen- questions in the House on these issues. In all its tation of An Agreed Programme for Govern- ment, particularly as it affects his Department; work, my Department works closely with other and if he will make a statement on the matter. Departments and offices. Individual Ministers are [28320/06] of course answerable to the House in respect of their own specific areas of responsibility. 10. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach The key areas for which my Department is when the annual report on progress in the imple- responsible in terms of An Agreed Programme mentation of An Agreed Programme for Govern- for Government can be broadly summarised as ment will be published; and if he will make a follows: supporting the development and imple- statement on the matter. [28462/06] mentation of social partnership, working with the British Government and the parties in Northern 11. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he Ireland to achieve the implementation of the will report on the progress to date in imple- Good Friday Agreement in all its aspects, co- menting An Agreed Programme for Govern- ordinating the e-government initiative to bring ment. [29221/06] about an expansion in the range and quality of on-line Government services and ensuring that 12. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will Ireland’s key objectives in the European Union report on the implementation of An Agreed are carried forward in the context of my role as a Programme for Government; and if he will make member of the European Council. a statement on the matter. [30672/06] Mr. Kenny: The programme for Government 13. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach to report specifically promised to reduce primary school on the implementation to date of An Agreed class sizes so that the average class size for under- Programme for Government; the reason no pro- nines would be 20 students. Today, 99,464 gress report on the implementation was published primary school children are taught in classes of in summer 2006, as had been the practice in pre- between 30 and 34 children. A further 8,931 vious years; and if he will make a statement on primary school children have class sizes of 35 to the matter. [30878/06] 39, while a further 162 children are in classes of more than 40—— The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 to 13, inclusive, together. An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair is reluctant to Progress on the implementation of the Govern- intervene, but those are questions specifically for ment programme is kept constantly under review. the line Minister. General questions are accept- Deputies will be aware that for every full year able at this time. that Fianna Fa´il and the Progressive Democrats 519 Ceisteanna — 25 October 2006. Questions 520

Mr. Kenny: This is a general question on the Mr. Durkan: It is in the programme for implementation of An Agreed Programme for Government. Government. Mr. Kenny: You are trying to influence the An Ceann Comhairle: It is a detailed question Taoiseach’s response. on education which would be more appropriately put to the line Minister. The Taoiseach: May I give a general response, a Cheann Chomhairle, without going into detail? Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach has briefing notes We have substantially reduced class sizes and the that are the same size as the Encyclopaedia Brit- pupil-teacher ratio. We have transformed the annica. He is well able to answer this question. learning environment for those with special needs and have launched major initiatives to tackle edu- An Ceann Comhairle: That is not the point. cational disadvantage. We have put resources Unfortunately, he is bound by Standing Orders into all communities. There are thousands of just as the Chair is bound to implement them. extra teachers and teaching assistants. We have reduced the pupil-teacher ratio far below the Mr. Kenny: I want the Taoiseach to report on norm in disadvantaged areas. This was a policy the implementation of primary school class sizes. objective. We believed we should put teachers The Government made a specific commitment into schools in disadvantaged communities and it and it has not been honoured. If the State cannot has worked successfully. One may say that this provide an appropriate educational base for its should be done across the board in a way that children then it has failed. We should not have does not affect disadvantaged schools, but class had a commitment like this in the educational sizes in most disadvantaged areas are now 15 and sector—— under. That was the right thing to do. It does not mean that we will not continue to reduce class An Ceann Comhairle: That is not a question. sizes in other areas. On the medical card issue, not alone have we Mr. Kenny: ——if it was not going to be lived increased the numbers significantly but when up to. What is the Taoiseach’s response on the people are working there is not the same demand commitment to ensure 80% of all earners would for medical cards, although we also moved to a pay tax at the standard rate? Where does this net pay basis, changing all the criteria. That was commitment stand? Will it be honoured by 6 done with the medical cards system before we December? introduced the doctor-only cards. It is interesting On the general agreement in respect of medical that has not achieved the forecast numbers cards which was a central plank of the health because income levels are far higher than the element of the programme for Government—— numbers based on the CSO figures a few years ago. If they were not, they would have claimed An Ceann Comhairle: Again, this is a question those cards. There have been three advertising for the appropriate line Minister. campaigns for doctor-only medical cards but they still have not achieved the figures forecast. Mr. Kenny: ——200,000 full medical cards We have returned more than \5 billion to the were promised. This was watered down to doctor- people in tax reductions. We have cut the stan- only cards in 2005, and only 12,000 have been dard rate and continue to make progress on the delivered in the past two years. These are three 18% rate but the important things were to areas which were major planks of the programme improve the entry point system, which is now for Government and I would like the Taoiseach \200, which we said we would do, and to remove to comment on all three. minimum pay from the tax net. There are approximately 750,000 people who are not eli- An Ceann Comhairle: They are the responsi- gible for tax at all as against 350,000 seven years bility of the line Ministers. ago. The 80:20 issue has not been achieved but the targeted measures to help single people, mar- Mr. Kenny: You want him to say that this is a ried couples, those with families, people with low detailed question for the line Minister. incomes and those on the minimum wage were more important objectives. An Ceann Comhairle: I do not. I do not have any control over what he says. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: In the Taoiseach’s main reply, he stated it was the responsibility of Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach is well able to the individual Minister to oversee the implemen- answer these questions and the Chair should tation of specific commitments in the programme allow him to do so. for Government. Has the Taoiseach seen any situation arising across his Department’s areas of An Ceann Comhairle: I appreciate that, but responsibility where commitments in the prog- questions that are for line Ministers should be left ramme for Government have been diluted, torn to them. up or shredded by other agencies entrusted to 521 Ceisteanna — 25 October 2006. Questions 522 carry out the commitments made by his Depart- Mr. Sargent: The Government’s environmental ment in that programme? To illustrate the point, commitments clearly state that it will implement I instanced the commitment under the health greenhouse gas taxation policies on a phased, portfolio to create 3,000 additional public hospital incremental basis. Can we take it that commit- beds. Professor Drumm of the HSE has stated ment has been shredded and will not be that these are not needed and will not be pursued. implemented at all? What about the commitment Has the Taoiseach seen that situation apply under to extend the levy on plastic bags to other areas his Department’s aegis? What will the Taoiseach such as non-reusable packaging? Has that been do about the specific instance I have cited? shredded or does it still stand? The Government As it falls to the Taoiseach’s Department to stated that it would implement and improve, anchor same, will he advise us why it was decided where necessary, the full range of ethics legis- not to publish an annual progress report on the lation. When the Government made that commit- implementation of the programme for Govern- ment, did the Taoiseach have in mind the Preven- ment this year, as has happened each year since tion of Corruption Act 1916? Its implementation 2002? is open to question. Road safety continues to be a very serious area, The Taoiseach: I hope no one shreds any of the with 99 people killed in road traffic accidents in initiatives or proposals from my Department but the first three months of the year. The prog- from time to time people would have a different ramme for Government states that the Govern- means or timescale for implementing them. That ment will introduce road safety and safe driving is always an issue we must try to resolve. The instruction in the secondary school curriculum. timescales and formats are not always as we set Will renewed emphasis be placed on this and can out in the programme for Government; that is we expect to see a serious change in that before part of the system we must engage with. We did the election given the nature of the road accidents an annual audit to keep things under review, to that are taking place? keep a focus and maintain a pressure on trying as far as we could, and we do this for a high pro- Mr. Rabbitte: Generally, is it not the case that, portion of our commitments, to implement them in respect of the programme for Government, in critical areas like health, social housing and edu- fully or as nearly as we could. cation, the Government is nowhere near meeting We did not publish the review this year because its targets? We were supposed to take four out of we are coming to the end of the programme for every five taxpayers from the top rate of tax. We Government and we decided to go to the end of were supposed to supply 200,000 medical cards 2006 before publishing. Obviously there would but the Taoiseach says the reason for the minus- not be much point in publishing the programme cule take-up of the doctor-only card is because of in August next year because at that stage the life pay rates and the economy. That does not accord of the current Government will be over. with the incidence of low pay that all the figures show is prevalent in this economy. ´ Caoimhghı´nOCaola´in: What about the Social housing as a proportion of housing out- hospital beds? That is a huge dichotomy. put and given demand was higher in the 1970s. Progress towards the commitment on a pupil- The Taoiseach: The view of the management teacher ratio of 20:1 in schools in terms of of the HSE is that 3,000 beds are not required. primary children under nine is way off target. Is Its view is that the utilisation of existing beds, it not the case that the targets set by Government plus the 1,300 new beds that have been delivered four and a half years ago are nowhere near to by this Government and 450 that are planned, being met? should, with better utilisation and more day cases, The commitment on transport states that the fulfil the need. Government will develop the metro for Dublin When we were talking about 3,000 beds we on a PPP basis, making the maximum use of were not talking about day cases being where private finance and achieving a link to Dublin they are now — there are 500,000 such cases per Airport by 2007. year. At the time, in 1999 to 2000, when the sur- vey took place, there were fewer than 100,000 day The Taoiseach: I do not think Deputy Rabbitte cases. The HSE management’s argument is that is suggesting that we said we would have it all because day cases are being used to this extent, built by 2007. We were not trying to do that. the formulation of figures that gave the 3,000 is not required. This is the international trend, with Mr. Sargent: The Government should get the the utilisation of day cases, more flexible working press release done. and more use of technology giving the turnover that means that level of beds is not required. The Taoiseach: The Minister for the Envir- onment, Heritage and Local Government, Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Less than half the Deputy Roche, recently did a very detailed number cited by the Taoiseach has been update on environmental issues. Across almost 50 provided. measures there has been substantial progress and 523 Requests to move Adjournment of 25 October 2006. Da´il under Standing Order 31 524

[The Taoiseach.] will have an older community. That has been an success in a range of areas. We will continue, as enormous success and is recognised as such inside long as we are in office, to implement these and outside this country. measures. There is a long list of actions taken to improve Mr. Sargent: Did the Taoiseach indicate that road safety. On the particular matter mentioned the carbon levy was or was not—— by Deputy Sargent about looking at building road safety into the schools programme, particularly An Ceann Comhairle: We must move on to into transition year, I am not sure of the exact requests under Standing Order 31. position but it is still being developed and exam- ined to try to make the actual driving end of it Mr. Sargent: I seek clarification. part of the curriculum for transition year students, rather than just what happens at present An Ceann Comhairle: We are well over time. where it is part of the education system with road The Chair has been generous to Deputy Sargent safety lectures and films and so on. I think there this morning. is potential to do that. The point I made on medical cards and the Mr. Sargent: I do not want the Taoiseach to doctor-only medical card figures was that, after mislead the House. He stated the Government three significant campaigns, if the income levels was implementing all the recommendations. Does were below the ratios, people would have taken that include the carbon levy? up the cards. People who are suffering poverty or difficulties have full medical cards. There has Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under been a low number of doctor-only cards but this Standing Order 31. has to mean that the income levels did not fulfil An Ceann Comhairle: Before coming to the the criteria, even though the figures at the time Order of Business, I propose to deal with a would have shown that we should have taken in number of notices under Standing Order 31. an enormous amount. Even after three campaigns that has not been the case. Those income figures Mr. Sherlock: In accordance with the terms of also apply to a number of other areas in social Standing Order 31, I seek to move the adjourn- welfare. ment of the Da´il to discuss the following specific On social housing, it is correct to say that in the and important matter of public interest requiring 1970s we built proportionally more social housing urgent attention, namely, the measures the against the total but let us be honest, the answer Government plans to take to ensure Greencore to that is that people were leaving the country at workers’ rights to redundancy terms based on a a rate of knots and there was hardly any private full unadjusted salary applicable at the date of the housing. In one year — I think it was 1983 or redundancy plus 20%, as provided by the com- 1984 — out of 24,000 houses built about six were pany-union agreement, are upheld in view of the built in the public sector. That is because we had repeated refusal by the company to honour the 20% unemployment and emigration was running agreement, particularly in light of the letter sent at 50,000 a year. The position now is that out of by the Labour Court to the company on 17 90,000 new houses, first-time buyers buy about October restating its original finding in this half or 45% of those. It is an entirely different matter. Given the importance of this issue, I hope position. This year, between one scheme and the Ceann Comhairle will agree to the adjourn- another in affordable housing, we are pro- ment of the House. portionally benefiting a very high number of people but proportionate against 90,000. That is Aengus O´ Snodaigh: I seek the adjournment only playing with figures if we are honest. of the Da´il under Standing Order 31 to raise the On a general point, across the range of following specific and important matter of public Government services, whether it is taxation — interest requiring urgent consideration, namely, where we have cut the standard rate of income to welcome yesterday’s Garda operation resulting tax from 27% to 20% and the top rate from 48% in the seizure of up to 30 kg of heroin, 25 kg of to 42%; the entry point to the tax system is now herbal cannabis, a machine gun and ammunition \300; earners are exempt in huge numbers; and in west Dublin and, given the internationally people on low pay are not paying any tax — or recognised guideline that drugs seized by law in education including the range of services and enforcement agencies amount to a mere 10% of school buildings, the number of teachers, special the illegal drugs available, the urgent need for the needs teachers, home liaison teachers etc., the Government to commit the necessary resources Government has substantially delivered on a very and the prioritisation of these to ensure that demanding programme. It has been able to do arrests and prosecutions follow from yesterday’s that at a time when we were still able to cut the seizure; the need to allow Operation Marigold national debt, still have Government surpluses, and Operation Anvil to become effective in their still be able to avoid paying huge amounts of stated objectives of tackling drug and gun crime; money on interest and put money away for the and the urgent need for complementary social welfare difficulties of the future when we measures, including increased funding to drug 525 Order of 25 October 2006. Business 526 treatment services and drug awareness and edu- This issue should be related to the package for cation programmes. Da´il reform, which the Government Whip has been talking about for some time, to make the An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy Ferris. business of the House more efficient and rel- evant. Is it proposed to have a presentation on Aengus O´ Snodaigh: Ta´ se´ as la´thair. the commission’s general programme for the moneys that will be spent between January and Dr. Cowley: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il December 2007 or will the House bypass the under Standing Order 31 to debate a matter of matter and have others write about it when major national and local importance, namely, the Members might have direct inputs to make? failure of Shell to even vacate the compulsory acquisition orders for the existing Corrib gas Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: On the last occasion route granted and facilitated by the Minister for this proposition was before the House, I asked Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, that we utilise the motion to have a proper review Deputy Noel Dempsey, and his predecessors in and discussion of the workings of the Houses of the Fianna Fa´il Party, despite assurances given by the Oireachtas Commission. I asked this not only Shell that the pipeline route was being altered on behalf of my party colleagues, but I hope I and whether the Government will direct the com- was reflecting the views of my colleagues in the pany to cease construction of the Corrib gas Green Party and the members of the Technical refinery at Bellanaboy, which would result in an Group. There is no direct representation of the end to the Corrib gas protest and prepare the way Technical Group on the Houses of the Oireachtas for talks where other options to bring the gas to Commission. This is a significant deficiency given shore would be seriously considered and to ask that, collectively, we have a greater number of the Minister, who has never visited Bellanaboy, Members than one of the main Opposition par- to do so as soon as possible. ties. We have no direct voice on this commission. Proceeding once again without debate with a An Ceann Comhairle: Having considered the motion on the statement of expenditure for the matters raised, they are not in order under Stand- forthcoming year is deficient. I therefore again ing Order 31. ask that the proposal I put 12 months ago be revisited, reconsidered and, hopefully, acceded Order of Business. to. The Taoiseach: It is proposed to take No. 9, motion re statement of expenditure for Houses The Taoiseach: There is a technical procedure of the Oireachtas; No. 13, Energy (Miscellaneous to be followed on this matter. When the motion Provisions) Bill 2006, Report Stage (resumed) is agreed, the Secretary General must present the and Final Stage; No. 1, Europol (Amendment) statement of Estimates to the Minister for Fin- Bill 2006 [Seanad] — Second Stage; and No. 2, ance not later than 30 days before the preparation ´ Citizens Information Bill 2006 — Second Stage, by the Minister for Da´il Eireann of the Estimates resumed. It is proposed, notwithstanding any- of receipts and expenditure, that is, the White thing in Standing Orders, that No. 9 shall be Paper for this year. That White Paper is decided without debate. Private Members’ busi- presented to the Da´il on 1 December. The state- ness shall be No. 49, motion re health services, ment of Estimates must be presented to the Mini- resumed, to conclude at 8.30 p.m. ster not later than Tuesday, 31 October. With regard to a debate on the Estimates of the com- An Ceann Comhairle: There is one proposal to mission, that is a matter for the commission and put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with the Whips. We must move the motion so we can No. 9, motion re statement of expenditure for comply with procedure to ensure we have Houses of the Oireachtas, agreed? resources next year. That is the issue I wish to address. Mr. Kenny: I understand from the Order Paper that this motion refers to expenditure from An Ceann Comhairle: Is the proposal agreed? January next year until the end of December Agreed. 2007, which is of interest to every Member of the House and the public. While one cannot have a Mr. Kenny: Has the Taoiseach received any discussion on how these moneys are spent, it communication from the Minister for Com- might be in order to have an arrangement munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs about whereby we could discuss the commission’s prog- reflecting the will of the people in law following ramme or receive a report from the commission a referendum conducted in respect of the name on what it intends to do next year. This expendi- Daingean Uı´ Chu´ is or Dingle in County Kerry? ture will affect matters such as printing facilities There is a Private Members’ Bill before the for Members and a range of other initiatives Seanad at present. The Minister has been saying being taken to improve the efficiency of the this matter is illegal but it is important to make it House. legal. Has the Taoiseach received instructions 527 Order of 25 October 2006. Business 528

[Mr. Kenny.] An Ceann Comhairle: What is the name of from the Minister that there will be a positive the legislation? response on this issue? Second, will the Taoiseach respond to the claim Mr. Sargent: The forestry Bill. When will it be this morning by Fr. Peter McVerry that young published? offenders in prison are being left to rot in a ware- house from sheer boredom—— The Taoiseach: With regard to the first ques- tion, work is continuing on those proposals. As An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on regards the Forestry (Amendment) Bill, a com- the Order of Business. The Deputy must find prehensive review of this sector, including poten- another way of raising it. It is a question for the tial legislative implications, commenced in the lat- line Minister. ter half of 2005. A consultative group representing all the stakeholders has concluded The Taoiseach: The Minister informs me that its evaluation and is to meet again shortly to he has arranged a meeting with Kerry County finalise matters. If that happens, it is hoped the Council in two weeks. legislation will be ready next year. Mr. Stanton: In the course of his musings Mr. Durkan: Let Dingle dangle. recently, the Minister for Social and Family Affairs spoke about introducing legislation to Mr. Kenny: The Minister, Deputy Se´amus curb high interest rates being charged by legal Brennan, would have had that sorted out in ten moneylenders. Is that legislation pending? minutes. The Taoiseach: There is no legislation prom- Mr. Rabbitte: Does the Taoiseach anticipate a ised. The Minister said he is seeking advice from referendum being held arising from the St. legal representatives and others as to what is pos- Andrew’s agreement? sible on that matter.

The Taoiseach: It is too early to make a Mr. J. O’Keeffe: He got his headline. judgment on that matter. The position in the talks was that one party wanted to have an election. Mr. Broughan: Will there be consequent legis- Other parties did not want an election or a refer- lation or a debate on the report of the three wise endum. If the issue came down to having to have men about salmon in the next two weeks? It an election — the larger parties would have the would give the Government backbenchers a right to seek it and the other parties would accept chance to express their views on the report. that — and a larger party wanted it, I believe the Second, does the Minister for Communications, two larger parties would accept that they would Marine and Natural Resources intend to intro- have an election. During the talks and discussions duce a tax on mobile phones? I argued that it is not necessary. If people insist that it is, it has its own difficulties but if there Mr. N. Dempsey: Is the Deputy suggesting it? must be an election, we must have it. An alternative suggested was that there could The Taoiseach: A debate on the report should be a referendum. If there is a referendum, the be discussed by the Whips. It is a good report and issue is that it should be held on both parts of the would be worthy of discussion. island because that was the issue for the Good CaoimhghınO´ Caolain: The ground rents Bill Friday Agreement in the first place. It will not ´ ´ has been promised since time immemorial and be clear until the final legislative measures are will, no doubt, appear in the Fianna Fa´il election cleared, if we get to that, hopefully on 21 manifesto for the forthcoming general election. November. It is too early to say what will happen. Where has the Bill been buried and when will it The main party is still insisting that it would pre- resurface? Will it ever be brought before the fer an election. House? What is missing? Is it bottle? Let us deal with it. Mr. Sargent: In reply to previous Leaders’ Questions, the Taoiseach said we can expect The Taoiseach: The Bill is not proceeding as legislation on the price of building land. Will present. A Supreme Court decision has impli- there be an announcement of legislation in that cations for it. regard? The Taoiseach said: “Fa´g an bealach, ta´ se´ ag teacht.” Can he indicate when that might Mr. Crawford: There was a Bill on the agenda be? With regard to legislation that is expected, for many years dealing with advertising alcohol Coillte and many others who are concerned about to young people. It was removed from the agenda the environment and motorised vehicles going because the Taoiseach said he was working with onto Coillte property, and I am not just referring the trade to try to deal with the situation. to the huge construction lorries at Ballinaboy in County Mayo which are very contentious—— A Deputy: A cosy deal. 529 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 530

Mr. Crawford: Will he reconsider that decision Mr. O’Dowd: On the enforcement of fines Bill in light of the tragic situations we regularly and in view of the fact that over \40 million encounter? The sale of alcohol Bill is on the legis- remains uncollected from those who evaded car lative programme but it specifically deals with the tax and that one in ten people do not tax their promotion of alcohol among sports organisations cars, will the Taoiseach introduce a mandatory and so forth. Is the Government serious about requirement that people who do not tax their cars trying to curtail the sale of alcohol to young will, as is the case in the United Kingdom, be people, given its implications? automatically fined?

The Taoiseach: The heads of the sale of alcohol The Taoiseach: I do not have a date for the Bill, to codify the law on the sale and consump- publication of the enforcement of fines Bill. tion of alcohol, have been approved and it was sent for drafting some time ago. It is due to be Mr. Timmins: When will the Curragh of published in the spring session. Kildare Bill and the defence amendment Bill be The heads of alcohol products (control of published and taken in the House? advertising, sponsorship and marketing practices/sales promotions) Bill have been The Taoiseach: Both are due to be published approved. However, voluntary agreements were in this session. reached with the alcohol and advertising indus- tries and the Department wishes to delay pro- Mr. Timmins: Will they be taken in the House ceeding with the legislation for a period to see during this session? what will be the outcome of those agreements. The Taoiseach: That depends on time con- Mr. Crawford: How long more must we wait? straints. Both should be published this session.

The Taoiseach: The point is—— Statement of Estimates for Houses of the Oireachtas Commission: Motion. Mr. Crawford: I do not raise this matter to be An Ceann Comhairle: No. 9 is a motion re awkward. statement of Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. The Houses of the An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should Oireachtas Commission Act states that this allow the Taoiseach to reply, without motion can be moved by a member of the Com- interruption. mission who is a Member of Da´il E´ ireann or, alternatively, by any other Member of Da´il The Taoiseach: ——that if I honestly believed E´ ireann nominated by the Commission. As a that passing legislation would solve all our prob- member of the commission and a Member of the lems, we would not bother with the code of prac- Da´il, I propose to move the motion. I move: tice. If we can encourage the industry to press ´ forward with its advertising campaign which That Da´il Eireann take note of the State- stresses people’s responsibility, it would probably ment of Estimates of money required in respect have far more effect. Young people are unlikely of ongoing expenditure for the period begin- to read the various sections of the legislation as ning on 1st January, 2007 and ending on 31st they engage in behaviour that is responsible or December, 2007 prepared and published by the otherwise. It is worth making the effort to see if Houses of the Oireachtas Commission in we can make progress on this issue. If the process accordance with section 13 of the Houses of the to which I refer does not work, we will proceed Oireachtas Commission Act 2003, which was with the Bill. laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas on 19th October, 2006. Mr. Kenny: Will it be necessary to introduce legislation to give legal effect to the recom- Question put and agreed to. mendations in the report on salmon drift net fish- ing that was published yesterday? Is the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Taoiseach in a position to confirm that the sum Report Stage (Resumed). of \25 million to which the report refers will be available for compensation in respect of currently Bill again recommitted in respect of amend- licensed drift net fishermen? ment No. 4:

The Taoiseach: Legislation is not required in In page 3, line 9, before “AND” to insert this regard. The Government will have to come the following: to a decision on the other aspects of the report. “, TO PROVIDE FOR THE TREAT- The three wise men have indicated that we should MENT OF LANDS AFFECTED BY not delay too long in respect of this issue because MINES AND FORMER MINES BY THE it is of major importance to the entire salmon REHABILITATION OF SUCH LANDS industry. AND FOR THE COMPULSORY 531 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 532

ACQUISITION OF LANDS FOR THE They will now be in a position to do their work PURPOSES OF SUCH properly on behalf of the people. REHABILITATION”. On the new Part 8, it is clear the Minister, —(Minister for Communications, Marine and Deputy Noel Dempsey, has listened to the people Natural Resources.) of north Tipperary, particularly those who live near Silvermines and in the area surrounding Mr. Durkan: This amendment relates to the Nenagh, and returned to the House with a prog- reinstatement of lands and I support it. We had ramme for the future which, as Deputy Durkan discussions with people from County Tipperary stated, will be extremely valuable. I commend and as the Minister correctly stated, this proposal Senator O’Meara of north Tipperary who, with was put forward and is being administered by the other Members of this House and the Upper local authority in the area. That is something of House, was to the forefront in trying to progress which we do not see enough in respect of various the campaign to bring about the remediation of forms of mining throughout the country, regard- the Silvermines land. less of whether it involves direct mining, sand and The most important change the Minister has gravel extraction or whatever. It is an essential introduced is the fact that when a company which part of the reinstatement of the landscape that obtains a licence has extracted the natural wealth something such as that proposed in the amend- from an area, we can recover State expenditure ment be incorporated in respect of all future where the remediation has not been made. When excavations. Where planning permission is people from the Silvermines district appeared granted by a local authority, a condition should before the Joint Committee on Communications, always be included in respect of reinstatement. Marine and Natural Resources and when For that reason, I welcome the inclusion of this members of that committee, including its Chair- provision in the Bill. I hope it can be used as a man, Deputy O’Flynn, visited the district, we template for other sites throughout the country, were given information and witnessed for our- particularly those located in sensitive areas where selves the way the company had effectively a great deal of value can be added by way of divi- reneged on its obligations. That was regrettable. dend to the community and the environment The Department has pursued this issue relent- through the imposition of a provision of this nat- lessly and it is heartening to finally see this legis- ure. In areas such as those to which I refer, it is lation undergoing its passage through the Da´il. I often the case that eyesores and health hazards commend the Minister in that regard. are all that remain unless action is taken. I do not know whether we will have an oppor- I commend the Minister on bringing forward tunity to discuss the new Part 8 in detail because the amendment. It is something with which we the Title is being changed to accommodate its all agree. inclusion in the Bill. However, I welcome the methodology the Minister will be able to use to Mr. Broughan: I warmly welcome this amend- consult stakeholders in future in respect of ment to the Title of the Bill and the new and sub- matters of this nature. It is a very welcome development and I commend the Civil Service stantive Part 8 the Minister is introducing. and the Minister for bringing it forward. I also welcome the fact the Ceann Comhairle has initiated a new procedure in respect of legis- Mr. Durkan: This is an interim measure and lation to be taken in the House under which it will be repealed when the substantial minerals Opposition Deputies in particular will not be development Bill is enacted. It will be important faced with a barrage of new amendments on to incorporate the experience gleaned from this Report Stage. I am aware, as a former member interim measure and other similar measures. of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, Deputy Broughan raised the point about the that the Ceann Comhairle has a great interest in stakeholders in the community wherever a sensi- this matter. I welcome the fact it appears progress tive location like this exists. That can vary from is being made in this regard because Opposition time to time and from place to place and the Members and even Government backbenchers emphasis may be greater or lesser as the case may did not have access to adequate resources to be. In the last few days there has been strong allow them, as with this legislation, to investigate opposition from the people of California to the the introduction of a major new part of a Bill. siting of refineries offshore. There has currently That became clear during the final hour of last been a debate in this country on whether such a week’s debate when a raft of extraneous issues refinery should be onshore or offshore. The relating to the Planning and Development experience to be gained from this is important. (Strategic Infrastructure) Act 2006 and its impact Preliminary discussions need to encompass the on this Bill entered the debate. The latter full scope of likely eventualities. It is virtually occurred because we did not have access to the impossible to anticipate everything, but we have relevant information. I commend the Ceann arrived at a junction whereby it is incumbent on Comhairle on listening to requests from everybody involved in the provision of facilities Deputies, particularly on this side of the House, of this nature to dot the i’s and cross the t’s and who were, until quite recently, poorly resourced. to ensure the negotiations provided for within the 533 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 534 law take place beforehand. The experience lation. For that reason I decided to bring forward gained from this interim measure should be used this proposal to the Government. to good advantage in any negotiations in the The Government remains committed to trying future. to recover the costs and a legal challenge is still extant. We served papers on this some time ago Mr. Eamon Ryan: I welcome the intent of these and it remains in place. If we can recover costs amendments which are obviously related to the we will do so, but the chances of recovery are incidents in Silvermines. Our committee visited slim. However, we have made provision in the Silvermines and saw the remarkably unstable and section to ensure that if the State spends \10.6 unsatisfactory leftovers from the mining oper- million, we will try to recover the costs. We have ation there. Under these amendments, does the also provided for a claim on any benefits accruing Minister expect this or any future Government to from the sale of the land. We have done every- be able to recover some of the financial costs thing we can to ensure the taxpayer is protected, from the companies involved in Silvermines? but in all honesty I do not expect too much of What commitments or financial contributions the \10.6 million to come from anyone other than have the companies made? If there have not been the taxpayer. any made to date, what guarantee do we have It is intended that this section will be repealed that the companies will pay a single euro for the when the minerals development Bill is enacted. rehabilitation plan that is needed? We are finding our way on this to a certain extent. We are using the local authority to act as agents Dr. Cowley: I welcome any move that will and if that method is successful, it will become prevent what we have seen in mines around the the template for any such moves in the future and country where multinationals have exploited our we can enshrine it in legislation. With regard to resources and have left nothing behind except a current mining operations, my constituency con- mess. That was the case with Tina Mines and in tains the largest lead and zinc mine in Europe and other places. if one goes into Google earth one can see the The Shell to Sea campaign is about creating an tailing ponds before one can see the town of offshore terminal, something which has already Navan. I have a keen interest in ensuring these happened off Kinsale and which would be very problems do not arise in future. The Environ- acceptable to the people in Rossport. The people mental Protection Agency and the Planning and are prepared to talk and to do whatever has to Development Acts impose obligations on com- be done to ensure their area is kept for the chil- panies to ensure these difficulties do not arise in dren in the future. It is the same with the mines where 400 acres has been earmarked for develop- the future. This does not solve the legacy prob- ment in the future. The people of the area do not lems but I would not anticipate that with regard want to see a situation develop like that which to any current or future mines, the taxpayer will happened in Tina Mines, where a terrible mess be required to meet the cost. This is specifically was left to be dealt with by the locals and their a legacy issue. children. That is what the Corrib gas debate is about. This is happening under their noses for 50 Amendment agreed to. permanent jobs, which is something the people cannot condone. Amendments reported.

Minister for Communications, Marine and Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk): Amendments Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): I thank the Nos. 5, 46 to 48, inclusive, 89, 99 and 100 are cog- Deputies for their contribution and for welcom- nate and may be discussed together. Amend- ing the measure. This has been an ongoing sore ments Nos. 47 and 48 are technical alternatives to across the political divide for a number of years the same part of the Bill. and it needed to be resolved. When Deputy Michael Smith was Minister for the Environment, Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 5: Heritage and Local Government, there was much In page 3, line 13, after “Energy” to insert discussion, debate and research done on the issue. “Regulation”. Part of the reason for the lack of resolution of the issue was the problem of recovering costs. There The inclusion of the word “Regulation” was dis- was ongoing dialogue between the Department cussed on Committee Stage and was referred to and what is left of the company that was involved on Second Stage. This is a regulatory Bill, and in the ownership of the mines over the years. rightly so, although some indication has been Attempts were made to come up with a reme- given to the effect that it is an energy Bill, but this diationprogramme that would be acceptable to is not so. As a regulatory Bill it should include in everybody and to which funding would be given some shape or form the word “Regulation”. This by the company. However, it appeared to me that is of particular importance for reference pur- if we were to depend on the company to provide poses. It is important that the reference should be a contribution, we would not get remediation that accessible and self-explanatory in the case when would be to the satisfaction of the local popu- a person seeks to quote a regulatory section in 535 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 536

[Mr. Durkan.] to be followed to achieve particular standards. I respect of the energy industry. This is a small suggest the Bill could be titled a miscellaneous inclusion. standards or provisions Bill or the word “Regul- The Minister indicated on Committee Stage ation” could be inserted. This would introduce that he might consider this proposal. I am hopeful the need for the commission and the Minister, in he will be in an expansive mood on this calm conjunction with the commission, to be in full morning to include it for the benefits I have control of the regulatory system. suggested. Mr. N. Dempsey: I acknowledge the co-oper- Mr. N. Dempsey: I have gone as far as I can ation in many different guises which I have and as far as is necessary with my amendment received from the Opposition. I am not trying to No. 47 to meet the case made by the Deputy. The be awkward in not accepting the amendment. The purpose of amendment No. 47 is to delete a refer- Deputy will know from reading the amendments ence to the Bill when enacted which is superflu- that the Government has accepted the principle ous to the text and the purpose of subsection (c) of a number of changes that were suggested on of section 6. Committee Stage because they were good sugges- I have no difficulty with the underlying reason- tions. For instance, we are increasing the mini- ing for Deputy Durkan’s suggestion for the Short mum number of days for consultation on draft Title of the Bill but I do not agree with his pro- policy directives and tying the text of those pro- posal for the execution of that reasoning. The visions more closely to the Green Paper, as Short Title of the Bill is simply a shorthand refer- requested by Deputies opposite. We are provid- ence to it. The real name or Title of the Bill is ing a legislative underpinning for the involvement contained in the Long Title. Amendments Nos. 1 of the joint committee in the consideration of all to 4, inclusive, change the name of the Bill to take draft policy directives. We have taken on board a account of the new provisions currently outside number of suggestions made on Committee its scope. Stage. It is regrettable I cannot accept this A clear precedent exists. The Energy amendment but I take the Deputy’s point on the (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2005 contained a number of regulatory aspects. However, every number of provisions outside the scope of energy Bill that is passed is regulatory; the House legis- matters. They included the use of radiological lates for something so it is therefore regulatory. I material for medical purposes and the payment ask the Deputy not to press the amendment of debts by Bord na Mo´ na. The Maritime Safety because we have gone as far as we can on this Act 2005 amends landlord and tenant legislation. proposal. The proper place for the reference is in the Long Titles of both Acts. My magnanimity goes so far Mr. Durkan: The Minister has not entirely as to accept the underlying reasons but I am deal- explained his reason. He has said he was in a ing with it in a different way. magnanimous mood and he has recognised the magnanimity of the Opposition. Mr. Durkan: I note the Minister’s response, but I also ask him to recognise that the Opposition Acting Chairman: We are back to the discipline has been fairly magnanimous with regard to this of Report Stage discussions. Bill as it bears little resemblance to its original Mr. Durkan: This is a recommittal of the Bill. appearance at birth. It has changed dramatically in the intervening period and the Opposition has Acting Chairman: Not in respect of this done its best to accommodate the Minister when amendment. he found himself in a quandary. We have accepted recommittal and allowed the redrafting Mr. Durkan: The Minister has recognised of the entire Bill. I urge the insertion of the word almost every good feature that I can think of and “Regulation” as this word is an integral part of has acknowledged almost every reason I can the Bill’s purpose and this should be clearly think of for including the word “regulation”. Will stated in the Title of the Bill. It would be more he explain the compelling forces that debar him descriptive of the Bill’s purpose and would be the from including the word “regulation”, which is natural reference point for all those involved in what the Bill will do? the provision of energy facilities, whether that be gas, electricity or ordinary heating of public Mr. N. Dempsey: Commonsense, conciseness buildings or dwelling houses, as another amend- and the fact that it is covered in the Long Title ment will propose. rather than in the Short Title and that one should The Bill regulates the area of efficiency and keep the Short Title as short as possible. that is to be welcomed, but those regulations lay down certain criteria and guidelines which need Amendment put. 537 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 538

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 59; Nı´l, 64.

Ta´

Allen, Bernard. McEntee, Shane. Boyle, Dan. McGinley, Dinny. Breen, James. McGrath, Finian. Broughan, Thomas P. McHugh, Paddy. Bruton, Richard. Mitchell, Olivia. Burton, Joan. Murphy, Catherine. Connaughton, Paul. Murphy, Gerard. Connolly, Paudge. Naughten, Denis. Costello, Joe. Neville, Dan. Cowley, Jerry. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Crawford, Seymour. O’Dowd, Fergus. Crowe, Sea´n. O’Keeffe, Jim. Cuffe, Ciara´n. O’Shea, Brian. Deasy, John. O’Sullivan, Jan. Deenihan, Jimmy. Pattison, Seamus. Durkan, Bernard J. Penrose, Willie. English, Damien. Perry, John. Enright, Olwyn. Quinn, Ruairı´. Ferris, Martin. Rabbitte, Pat. Gilmore, Eamon. Ring, Michael. Gogarty, Paul. Ryan, Eamon. Gormley, John. Ryan, Sea´n. Gregory, Tony. Sargent, Trevor. Higgins, Michael D. Sherlock, Joe. Howlin, Brendan. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Kehoe, Paul. Stagg, Emmet. Kenny, Enda. Stanton, David. Lowry, Michael. Timmins, Billy. Lynch, Kathleen. Wall, Jack. McCormack, Pa´draic.

Nı´l

Ahern, Dermot. Kelly, Peter. Ahern, Michael. Killeen, Tony. Ahern, Noel. Kirk, Seamus. Andrews, Barry. Kitt, Tom. Ardagh, Sea´n. Lenihan, Conor. Blaney, Niall. McDowell, Michael. Brady, Johnny. McEllistrim, Thomas. Brady, Martin. McGuinness, John. Brennan, Seamus. Moloney, John. Callanan, Joe. Moynihan, Donal. Carey, Pat. Moynihan, Michael. Carty, John. Mulcahy, Michael. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. Nolan, M. J. Cowen, Brian. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Cregan, John. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Curran, John. O’Connor, Charlie. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Dea, Willie. Dennehy, John. O’Donnell, Liz. Devins, Jimmy. O’Donovan, Denis. Ellis, John. O’Flynn, Noel. Fahey, Frank. O’Keeffe, Batt. Finneran, Michael. O’Malley, Tim. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Power, Peter. Fleming, Sea´n. Roche, Dick. Fox, Mildred. Sexton, Mae. Glennon, Jim. Smith, Michael. Haughey, Sea´n. Treacy, Noel. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Wallace, Dan. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Wallace, Mary. Jacob, Joe. Walsh, Joe. Keaveney, Cecilia. Wilkinson, Ollie. Kelleher, Billy. Woods, Michael.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kehoe and Stagg; Nı´l, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher.

Amendment declared lost. Mr. N. Dempsey: I move amendment No. 6:

Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 6 and 7 In page 3, to delete lines 15 to 19 and substi- are technical alternatives to the same Parts of the tute the following: Bill and may be discussed together. 539 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 540

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] ment for such matters to be referred to the “(2) Sections 4, 6, 8, 11 to 14 and 18 of this Houses of the Oireachtas for debate. We tried to Act shall come into operation on such day or introduce such a provision during the debates on days as the Minister may by order or orders Second Stage and Committee Stage. It has also appoint either generally or with reference to been a feature of discussions on a similar Bill. any particular purpose or provision and Members of the Oireachtas currently find it diffi- different days may be so appointed for cult to raise questions that are in order concern- different purposes or provisions.”. ing certain subjects, including a sensitive subject This is a minor technical amendment. It specifies of this nature. It would be highly beneficial to the which provisions of the Bill are not to be brought operation of the Oireachtas and the monitoring into effect on its enactment but which are to be of legislation if the term “subject to Oireachtas brought into effect by means of a ministerial approval” was included. The Minister may find order instead. In effect, this is a reversal of the himself on the Opposition benches and on the provisions of the current text of section 1, which receiving end of these matters in a short while — highlights those sections brought into effect on not that I wish him any harm or the Government enactment. Therefore, we are just switching it any slippage in the opinion polls but they say one around because we think it is easier. man’s meat is another’s poison. It may be Several of the new amendments to the Bill will beneficial from the point of view of the Govern- need to be brought into effect immediately on its ment not to include this provision or to introduce enactment. For example, the amendment allows the sections on a piecemeal basis but the Govern- for such matters as the power of Bord Ga´is ment amendment is imprecise and would be sig- E´ ireann to create capital stock, increasing the nificantly improved if my amendment was borrowing limits of Bord na Mo´ na and the accepted. rehabilitation of mine sites, to come in auto- matically. Mr. Broughan: I do not wish to delay the dis- Following consideration of the issues raised by cussion because a number of important amend- Members on Committee Stage and because there ments have yet to be moved but the public gener- is no administrative barrier to prevent it, it has ally takes the view that a Bill passes into law once also been decided to bring certain provisions — it has been signed by the President. Recently, for for example, those governing emergency example, I was asked whether the fireworks pro- measures and policy directions to the CER — visions of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 had into effect immediately on enactment. entered into force. There are often misconcep- The use of the ministerial order should, where tions among the public about when legislation is possible, be restricted to those provisions which brought into force. We all remember the classic are dependent on preparatory work for their suc- case of the Children Act 1997, key aspects of cessful implementation and which are therefore which have not yet been implemented one decade unsuitable for bringing into effect on enactment later. In this regard, Deputy Kenny asked a ques- of the Bill — for example, the regulation of elec- tion this morning about the treatment of young trical contractors and gas installers. offenders. Tranches of the Children Act are not By specifying which provisions require such an in effect because the Government will not spend order, rather than those that do not, it serves as a the necessary money. useful checklist for those responsible for drafting The public is very interested in some of the such orders. We believe this will make the pro- ideas presented by this Bill and expect them to cedure much clearer. be implemented. The Minister claims that his amendment will provide for clarity because, in Mr. Durkan: The universally suitable and the past, Bills could take years to enact. Sections acceptable answer is yes and no. The Minister is 2, 5 and 16 to 18, inclusive, are already excluded. right in saying that there are some situations Now, amendment No. 6 proposes that sections 4, where the gradual introduction of 6, 8, 11 to 14, inclusive, and 18 will come into 1 o’clock particular sections of an Act may be operation on such day or days as the Minister desirable. In that case, the provisions may set. Clearly, certain elements of the Bill, such of the Act are merely being introduced as as the sections pertaining to gas and electricity required or on request. While that may be fine in safety, the interconnector and combined heat and some cases, Members of the House will recall that power, are being included but debate on this some sections of certain legislative measures were could continue for a long time, so the sense of not activated or put into operation for one reason urgency we were trying to foster regarding, for or another. I am not certain therefore that the example, the interconnector or microgeneration, Minister’s idea is a good one. I would be willing might not be reflected in the Bill. The Minister to overlook the deviation if, for example, it were may be able to bring into force immediate pro- to be introduced subject to Oireachtas approval. visions to direct CER or act in an emergency but Amendment No. 7 meets that requirement. that remains uncertain. After going through the The term “subject to Oireachtas approval” trouble of getting this Bill right, its sections would mean that on or in the course of introduc- should enter into force as soon after enactment as ing various sections, there would be a require- possible so that we can move on with the energy 541 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 542 agenda. However, the Minister is confusing the yesterday, made a call for greater transparency matter with this amendment. from Shell and urged the Minister to respond. The Fianna Fa´il candidate in the area, Councillor Mr. Eamon Ryan: I oppose the proposed Frank Chambers, has joined the chorus of those amendment, although I understand the intention seeking discussions on an alternative location. behind it, on a basic point of principle. With Two engineers, Brian Coyle and Leo Corcoran, regard to section 16, which concerns capitalis- a former Bord Ga´is employee, have asked the ation of Bord Ga´is in order to allow an ESOT to Minister to commission a report by Advantica on purchase a stake in the company, I have yet to the optimum location for the gas terminal, which hear an argument from the Minister setting out they believe to be central to the dispute over the the reasons the State should allocate funding. We onshore pipeline. Given that they are the Mini- asked on Committee Stage to know the union’s ster’s people and that he has responsibility for the case for the capitalisation of the company and matter, when will he meet his people? While allocation of a significant shareholding, as well as there is collective Government responsibility for the particular reasons for the Minister’s change this matter, if I were the Minister I would find it of mind. If I recall the Minister’s comments, we hard to admit I never stood down there and never \ are looking at up to 25,000 for every individual met those people. The Minister has cast shareholder, based on the estimated final capital- aspersions on those people. They are fine decent isation of the company. The Minister said he honourable people who have been heavily put would share with Opposition Deputies the case upon. They are very disturbed and upset over made by the union regarding any benefits or new what has happened to their area. They have legit- productivity arrangements which would justify imate fears that have never been addressed. such a deal. Given the history of ESOTS and the The location of the pipeline to the refinery is effect they are having on State companies follow- the problem, as has always been the case. The ing the success — from a union perspective — Minister continues to insist on Shell proceeding of Eircom, I would have preferred to retain the to lay this pipeline, which does not have per- practice whereby decisions are made according to mission and could have serious problems regard- ministerial regulations. I do not believe in ing cold venting of gas which have been admitted. enacting Bills which allow for such decisions to be made upon enactment; how can I make a decision Serious questions remain to be answered. Why when I have not been presented with an argu- does the Minister continue to ignore the people? ment from the Minister on the benefits or Why will he not visit them? Everyone who has changes in working practice that persuaded him done so has received a warm welcome and a cup to change his mind? In the absence of the reason- of tea, and has heard what this is all about. I do ing for the decision, I would prefer section 16 to not know how the Minister can stand over all that be issued by the Minister if he believes it a good is happening when he refuses to visit those idea. people. When will he visit? When will the Minister address the initiative Dr. Cowley: I also oppose this amendment seeking an alternative location for the terminal because the people I represent do not trust this suggested by the Independent Deputies, Deputy Minister, who, with his predecessors, has been Sargent, the leader of the Green Party, the responsible for everything that happened to the Fianna Fa´il councillor, Frank Chambers, and, I Corrib gas field, despite never visiting the area. believe, Ian McAndrew from Fine Gael? When When will he meet the people involved? A TG4 will the Minister address the report by the engin- survey revealed that 61% of respondents were in eers, Leo Corcoran and Brian Coyle, which called favour of Shell to Sea, 66% supported the stance for a study by Advantica Consultants, who did of the Rossport five, while a survey conducted by not investigate the location of the refinery? When the Mayo Advertiser indicated that 40% of people will the Minister commission them to report on could not care less, only 15% were in favour of alternative locations? Shell’s actions and the remainder wanted Shell to go to sea. Mr. N. Dempsey: I am not sure what this has In light of the Minister’s responsibilities, when to do with the amendment. will he respond to the request made by Indepen- dent Deputies for a period of calm and the sus- Dr. Cowley: It is the Minister’s responsibility. pension of work at the Bellanaboy terminal in order that negotiations could be held? The Mr. N. Dempsey: The Deputy keeps bringing Government will have to involve itself in this back in this issue. It has nothing to do with because, while the people of the area are all amendment No. 6. interested in negotiating, the Advantica report did not take account of the location of the pipe- Dr. Cowley: It has everything to do with it. It line and that remains the issue. The Minister has is the Minister’s responsibility. not responded to the statement issued by Deputy Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party, Deputy Healy Mr. N. Dempsey: It would be nice if the and myself. Deputy Sargent, who visited the area Deputy would listen to somebody else at times. 543 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 544

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] people are not satisfied, I can do nothing further He continually asks when I will start listening. It in that regard. I am sorry that some people do is quite clear from all of his contributions in the not seem to be able to get that message. House that he does not listen to anybody, nor do The amendment we are discussing is fairly some of the people involved. minor and technical, and is designed to clarify. Any Bill brought before the House sets out var- Dr. Cowley: The Minister should tell us ious principles and objectives. In some cases they something. cannot be done immediately on enactment of the Bill. One good example relates to the provisions Mr. N. Dempsey: The Deputy should try dealing with the installers, safety etc. Discussions listening—— are ongoing to make this as effective as possible and to try to prevent it from becoming too Dr. Cowley: I am listening. bureaucratic. By the time the Bill has passed through the Seanad, those talks may have been Mr. N. Dempsey: ——rather than talking all completed and we might be able to commence the time and not listening. the section fairly quickly or it might take some- what longer. However, in such cases where we Dr. Cowley: When will the Minister visit? are trying to tease out some of the details, it makes sense to have a commencement date. That Mr. N. Dempsey: I have no plans for any visit is all that is proposed in this amendment. to the—— I take the point made by the Deputies on the Dr. Cowley: Why not? danger of going down a particular route and hav- ing commencement dates for individual sections. Mr. N. Dempsey: Chairman, I am either to It is always a danger that matters will drag on. respond or to have a dialogue. The alternative is to shelve the Bill until all the details are worked out and then come back to try Acting Chairman: I ask the Deputy to allow an to get the Bill passed through the House, which tAire to respond. does not make much sense either. I assure Deputies, who have put considerable work into Mr. N. Dempsey: The Deputy continually talks the Bill, as have my officials and I, that it is and tells everybody else that they should listen. intended to have all the provisions brought into A small number of Independent Deputies made effect as quickly as is possible and feasible. There a request last Monday week. As the Deputy is is no desire to delay any of them. Some of them well aware, I said last week that when the are extremely important. mediation process was established, both sides Deputy Durkan has been very consistent in his were asked to enter unconditional talks, with no proposals in trying to ensure we have Oireachtas conditions attached by either side. Both sides scrutiny of Bills. All of the orders will be required indicated they were interested in doing so and the to be laid before the Oireachtas as a matter of people representing Shell to Sea refused to sit course. Some of them need to be affirmed and down face-to-face with Shell to have those talks. some of them will be implemented if not That is a fact, which can easily be verified. As I opposed. It allows for scrutiny of the detail. While know the Deputy does not want to mislead the the Deputy has an interest in all sections, I know House, he should not talk to me in this House he has a particular interest in the section relating about not being willing to talk to anybody. Unless to installers and the safety aspect. someone is saying what Shell to Sea wants him or I will take another provision that was men- her to say in this House, its representatives do tioned, that of combined heat and power. not want to listen. The local people the Deputy represents had Acting Chairman: In his second contribution, genuine concerns and everything that could poss- the Minister is allowed two minutes. The third ibly be done to allay those concerns was done. I round is open-ended. I have allowed some lati- listened to them through third parties, through tude in this case and I could run into difficulty their spokespersons and through their public rep- accordingly. resentatives, and I responded positively. Some of them have not moved an inch. Some of them have Mr. N. Dempsey: I will do it the other way and are certainly less concerned following the around. If I speak for a third time, I will only take report of Advantica Consultants, mediation, con- two minutes. I am sorry I did not realise what was sultation and everything else. I will not try to the requirement. satisfy Shell to Sea supporters, who represent a On section 6, which concerns combined heat loose conglomeration of political activists from and power, there is ongoing work at EU level, Sinn Fe´in, anarchists affiliated to various environ- which work will affect the section. We do not mental groups etc. While they are entitled to their want to commence the section until the work is view, my concern has always been for the local finalised. people who had genuine fears and concerns. I I will forward whatever details I can obtain on have tried to address those concerns. While some Bord Ga´is E´ ireann before the end of the week. 545 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 546

The principle involved was that if the workers and the Mayo Advertiser, he will note that the were to get an ESOP, its value would have to be vast majority of the population is in favour of reflected in savings to the company over a part- what the protesters are trying to do. They are just icular period and the State would also have to trying to be safe in their own area. Every party is receive some dividend. Some of the details entitled to support the campaign and no demo- involved are commercially sensitive but we will cratic party should be overruled. To say otherwise provide as much detail as we possibly can. is wrong. The Minister said people were not prepared to Acting Chairman: Deputy Durkan has two talk to Shell. The men who were jailed were—— minutes. Acting Chairman: The Deputy might address Mr. Durkan: Two minutes is a long time if one the substance of amendment No. 6. uses it well but if one uses it badly it could be of no benefit at all. Dr. Cowley: There is great willingness to talk It has been necessary for me to try to incorpor- and a very genuine proposal that should be con- ate the theme which the Minister says I have been sidered. One should remember the location of the pursuing all the time, particularly from the point refinery was never the subject of the study and of view of the Opposition. We find our interac- this is the outstanding problem. Even an inspec- tion with the Government in the House is being tor from An Bord Pleana´la said it was in the narrowed time and again. Eventually Parliament wrong location. There is a great need for the will become superfluous to the legislative process Minister to intervene. He could talk to Shell to and this should not be the case. There should be Sea, which represents the majority of people in total transparency and accountability at all times. the area, and to Shell. This is the way forward It is proposed to defer the commencement date and the Minister has responsibility in this regard. of six sections of the Bill. This is a fairly funda- We hope the Minister will visit the site in mental move. Notwithstanding what the Minister Mayo. He has been so involved in the process but said about the ongoing talks, I do not believe one has never visited. If he visited the headquarters can produce legislation on that basis. One must of Shell to Sea, he would see it is a trailer, in determine what one believes to be legislatively which he would receive a hot cup of tea and a correct. Over the summer we had to exchange welcome. He would hear for the first time what views with the various interested groups that this matter is all about and meet the real people made representations to us. This process is partic- involved, that is, the ordinary, honourable, decent ularly difficult for the Opposition — it is almost people I represent. impossible. The Minister will ultimately introduce particularly sensitive and important legislation on Mr. Broughan: The House understands that a staggered basis. very detailed and intense preparatory work is Deputy Broughan referred to other legislation involved in producing the legislation, including in where the staggered approach caused a problem. respect of the all-island energy market. When we It would be very helpful if, in view of the pro- first discussed the Bill, we were trying to address posed deletion, my amendment were accepted. I all the safety issues. The Minister is, at long last, know the Minister said measures will be laid establishing a very fundamental safety regime for before the House but this is certainly not the electricity and gas. The public would like to know same as having accountability in the House. We that it will be in place. need to recognise that the most effective course When the interested parties met the Oppo- of action is to include matters on the Order Paper sition representatives before the consideration of so that they can be raised in the House and the the Bill, they highlighted what they believed were Minister can be questioned. deficiencies in the way the Minister was to regu- late existing organisations and in the way safety Dr. Cowley: To respond to some of the Mini- measures were approved. One can say for definite ster’s points, a representative number of Indepen- that the gas and electricity safety measures are dent Members were in attendance in addition to paramount and should be enforced as soon as Deputy Higgins. possible. Regulations are made available to the Oireachtas Library but this is not the same as dis- Acting Chairman: The substance of amend- cussing them in the House, as Deputy Durkan ment No. 6 is somewhat removed from the indicated. Deputy’s contribution. Let us consider Deputy Cowley’s comments. To allow us concentrate on the Bill, which is not Dr. Cowley: I have a right to defend myself in primarily about exploration, is there any way in the House when accusations are made against me. which the Minister could facilitate face to face The opposition in Mayo is not confined to a talks between Shell and the key people from couple of radicals. It includes the local popu- Mayo? I note the points he has made in this lation, whether the Minister likes it or not. If he regard. The whole country has been interested in cares to read any of the surveys other than the this subject. There has been much comment on one conducted by Shell, including those by TG4 the matter in the media today and different par- 547 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 548

[Mr. Broughan.] Mr. Durkan: It is no harm to test that as well ties, including representatives from my party, as everything else. have a particular interest in it. Does the Minister foresee a fundamental role for Bord Ga´is E´ ireann Amendment agreed to. in resolving the dispute and getting the gas ashore safely in an agreed fashion so that we would have Amendment No. 7 not moved. the interim fuel supply the country desperately needs? Debate adjourned.

Mr. N. Dempsey: The amendment we are pro- Sitting suspended at 1.35 p.m. and resumed at posing is simply a reversal of the provisions that 2.30 p.m. obtained previously. Instead of saying the sections will commence immediately, we are Ceisteanna — Questions (Resumed). specifying the ones that will not commence immediately. It is the same thing in a different Priority Questions. way. ———— Mr. Durkan: It is the same but different. EU Enlargement. Mr. N. Dempsey: It is just a reversal. It has 75. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Foreign exactly the same import. Affairs if he has discussed the upcoming accession of Bulgaria and Romania to the Euro- Mr. Broughan: It is clearer. pean Union with his European counterpart Mini- sters, with particular regard to the question of Mr. N. Dempsey: It makes it clearer. opening access to labour markets for the citizens In respect of the extraneous matters that have of these States; if consultations between his been raised, I have dealt with the Corrib project Department and other Departments have taken and with Shell to Sea. If I thought there were the place with regard to this issue; and if he will make slightest chance that people would move from a statement on the matter. [34714/06] their positions, I would be very accommodating. I do not believe that will happen, however, because Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): there is absolutely no evidence of it. The preparedness of Bulgaria and Romania for membership of the European Union has been a Mr. Broughan: What about yesterday’s news- major issue on the EU agenda since they signed paper article? their treaty of accession in April 2005. Consider- able attention has been given to the Com- Mr. N. Dempsey: There is absolutely no mission’s efforts in monitoring the two countries’ evidence. preparations for accession. The matter has been discussed by EU Foreign Ministers on a number Mr. Broughan: Did the Minister read the of occasions. The most recent discussion took interview? place at this month’s meeting of the General Affairs and External Relations Council, when Acting Chairman: We have gone over time. both countries were commended on the reforms they have undertaken. The Council looks forward Mr. N. Dempsey: Statements are being made to welcoming Bulgaria and Romania into the EU which have been made in the past. People are in January 2007. saying they will sit down and talk to Shell face to There has been a particular focus on labour face provided there are no preconditions, but market access in recent months. As Deputies are when those people are asked to sit down they ref- aware, the Government decided yesterday that use to do so. Ireland will avail of the transitional labour market access arrangements which are provided Dr. Cowley: The statement was that ”we reiter- for in the EU’s accession treaty with Bulgaria and ate our position that we wish to resolve this con- Romania. Therefore, citizens of Bulgaria and flict so that the health and safety—— Romania will continue to require work permits if they are to take up employment here after the Acting Chairman: The Deputy is out of order. two countries accede to the EU in January of I want to deal with amendment No. 6. Is the next year. The Government’s decision was taken amendment agreed? on the basis of careful consideration of the issues involved and following consultations with the Mr. Durkan: I would be willing to trade the social partners. Consultations on this issue have amendment for amendment No. 7. also taken place between the various Depart- ments. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Acting Chairman: Deputy Durkan is testing the Employment, which has responsibility for labour patience of the Chair. market and work permit issues, has been partic- 549 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 550 ularly involved. The Government had extensive workers from the accession states that followed contact with other member states to determine the last round of EU enlargement? their intentions. I congratulate Bulgaria and Romania on their Finland, which currently holds the EU Presi- forthcoming membership of the EU. Their dency, is the only pre-2004 EU member state to Governments now have the hard job of have announced that it will allow unrestricted explaining to the populations of those countries labour market access for citizens of Bulgaria and the reasons they are being excluded in this way. Romania from next January. Other member I support the Government’s decision, in principle. states have indicated they will impose restrictions. There should have been some consultation, at A number of key countries have not yet opened least, with the partners which matter most in this their labour markets to the member states which country’s political structures, including this joined the EU in 2004. The British Government, House. which did not impose any restrictions in 2004, has decided to apply a work permit requirement on Mr. D. Ahern: I do not accept that the other this occasion. The British decision was an political parties were not involved in this process. important consideration in the Government’s I participated in a number of discussions at analysis of the options available to Ireland. When Oireachtas committees about the accession of the last EU enlargement took place in 2004, Bulgaria and Romania to the European Union. Ireland was one of just three member states not The question of whether free access would be to restrict labour market access for citizens of the given to workers from those countries was dis- acceding states from central and eastern Europe. cussed at those meetings. I made the point on As a result, many people from those countries many occasions, as I did in my earlier reply, that have come to work in Ireland over the past two Ireland, Sweden and the United Kingdom were years. Ireland has taken in almost half as many the only three of the 15 pre-2004 member states workers from the new member states as the UK, to give free access to workers from the ten new which has a population 15 times greater than the countries which joined the EU in May 2004. It is population of Ireland. estimated that approximately 275,000 people The ESRI has pointed out that many people from those accession countries have been given have moved to Ireland at a time of rapid econ- personal public service numbers in this State, omic growth. The broadly positive impact of that which has a population of 4.2 million, over a rela- migration to date may not be evident in a more tively short space of time. Approximately 500,000 difficult economic climate. We need to continue such people went to the UK, which has a popu- to monitor the effects of migration on society, for lation of 56 million, over the same period. Just example on our education, health and social 10,000 people from the accession states went to security systems. In that context, and in the light Sweden, which was the only other country to of the intentions of its EU partners, the Govern- allow free labour market access, in the same time- ment’s decision to continue to require Bulgarians frame. That is an indication that Ireland has done and Romanians to seek work permits was the its bit to provide for free access, by and large. prudent and proper course of action to take. It The Government examined the situation care- means workers from Bulgaria and Romania will fully before it made this decision. It considered be able to come here when they can fill a genuine the recommendations of the social partners and labour market need. the views which were expressed in this House. I cannot comment on the request that was made Mr. Allen: Why was the House treated with to the Department of the Taoiseach, which was such disrespect when this important decision was highlighted by Deputy Allen just now. Like the being taken? The Minister said the social partners Minister who has direct responsibility for work were consulted. The Joint Committee on Euro- permits, Deputy Martin, I was willing to come to pean Affairs wanted to discuss this matter with the House or a committee meeting to discuss this the Department of the Taoiseach, but no such issue at any time. I welcome the fact Fine Gael session took place. The importance of that com- supports the Government’s view, which concurs mittee was ignored. A decision was made without exactly with the statements made by the Econ- any consultation with the other political parties. omic and Social Research Institute and the social Does the Minister agree the manner in which the partners, on the current situation. It should be announcement was made was a further example emphasised that under the system in place at EU of the downgrading of this House? The level, countries like Ireland which continue to announcement was made on the coat-tails of the keep restrictions in place will ultimately have to UK announcement, which was made yesterday provide for free access after a relatively short morning. When the UK authorities jumped, we time — a seven-year period at the very most. jumped after them in the absence of any consul- After separate periods of two years, two years tation with the other political parties. The Mini- and three years have passed, countries which ster mentioned that an impact study has been have put restrictions in place will have to open conducted on our social services. To what extent their labour markets. has a study taken place of the impact on our A number of countries, including some major hospital and educational services of the influx of countries in the EU which did not allow free 551 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 552

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Time is running out for those countries regarding access in 2004, have yet to open their borders to the previous enlargement and between 2009 and the member states which acceded to the Union in 2011 they will be compelled to allow full access. that year. Ireland has done more than its fair share by allowing free access to its labour market. Mr. Allen: I presume we will try not to use the While we acknowledge the principle of free seven years in question. access, we ultimately have to bear in mind all the various considerations, which we have done in a Foreign Conflicts. reasoned way. We were in fairly constant contact with our colleagues in Britain about what they 76. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for were doing in this regard. It does not relate to the Foreign Affairs his views on whether genocide issue of the common travel area between Ireland has taken, and is taking place in Darfur; and the and Britain. It relates more to the fact that if the most recent and explicit proposals that have been British authorities introduced restrictions but we made by the European Union in terms of an did not, Ireland would be the only English-speak- adequately resourced and expanded United ing country in the EU without any restrictions. In Nations force being given a mandate either in our view, that might have led to larger numbers support of or within the forces of the African than normal coming to our shores. Union already in place. [34712/06]

Mr. Allen: What discussions took place with Mr. D. Ahern: Bringing to justice those respon- our other EU partners about the opening of their sible for serious human rights violations is an borders? The decisions which have been made — essential element in restoring peace to Darfur. In I accept the Government’s decision may have October 2004, an international commission of been forced on it — are contrary to the EU prin- inquiry was established by the UN Secretary ciple of mobility of labour. Can the Minister give General. Part of its mandate was to determine the House details of the pressures which are whether acts of genocide had occurred there. The being placed on other Governments to open their commission’s report was published on 25 January labour markets, so the impact on Ireland, the UK 2005. While stopping short of a finding of geno- and Sweden will not be as great in the future as cide against the Sudanese Government, the com- it has been in recent years? Surely the issue of mission established that the government and the the common travel area was central to the Janjaweed were responsible for serious violations Government’s decision. Why did the Govern- of international human rights and humanitarian ment show such indecent haste in jumping to a law amounting to crimes under international law, decision within two hours of yesterday’s which might amount to crimes against humanity. announcement of the UK decision? The commission also found credible evidence that rebel forces were responsible for serious Mr. D. Ahern: The Taoiseach and the British violations of international human rights and Prime Minister, Mr. Blair — the two Govern- humanitarian law that might amount to war ments — had agreed the announcements would crimes. be made on the same day. We had been in con- The commission pointed out that its conclusion stant contact. It had nothing to do with following that no genocidal policy had been pursued and the British slavishly, off the top of our heads. This implemented in Darfur by the Sudanese Govern- was a result of constant negotiations with the ment should not be taken in any way as respective Departments and the respective Prime detracting from the gravity of the crimes per- Ministers. The Taoiseach and Prime Minister petrated in that region. The commission also Blair discussed this issue recently at St. Andrew’s recognised that in some instances individuals, in Scotland. including government officials, may commit acts with genocidal intent. Whether this was the case Mr. Allen: What about the other countries? in Darfur could only be determined by a com- petent court on a case by case basis. Mr. D. Ahern: We have been in discussion with The Security Council decided to refer the other countries at EU level and I made the point situation in Darfur since 1 July 2002 to the pros- that Ireland opens its borders. Our colleagues ecutor of the International Court of Justice. The have been surprised at the numbers that have prosecutor decided to open an investigation into come to Ireland and they acknowledge that the situation in Darfur, which is still underway. Ireland opened its borders for the previous In his June 2006 report to the Security Council, accession. the prosecutor referred to allegations that some There is pressure on other countries but they of the groups involved in the commission of must make their own decisions and cannot slav- crimes in Darfur did so with specific genocidal ishly follow others. Similarly, we must make intent. He indicated that this issue remains the decisions based on the circumstances that pertain subject of investigation and that he would not at a particular time. A number of countries, draw any conclusions as to the character of the including France, Germany and Belgium, have crimes pending the completion of a full and indicated they will probably impose restrictions. impartial investigation. The International Crimi- 553 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 554 nal Court is the most appropriate body to investi- The Darfur Consortium represents 40 African gate and try those accused of the dreadful crimes non-governmental organisations, NGOs, and it is which have occurred in Darfur. Until the pros- concerned at the arrest in Saudi Arabia of Abul- ecutor’s investigation has been completed and his gasem Ahmed Abulgasem at a conference on conclusions made known, I would not wish to Sudan. He is from Darfur and has been subjected express a view on whether genocide has taken to an extraordinary rendition to Sudan where he place, or is still occurring, in Darfur. is now held without access and proper procedures The Government remains deeply concerned by relating to vindication. the grave political and humanitarian crisis taking place in Darfur. We are using all avenues to work Mr. D. Ahern: I welcome the Deputy’s for a resolution of the major challenges that exist approach to this matter because the question of there. Both bilaterally and as part of the Euro- whether it is genocide is academic. It is an appal- pean Union, we have played an active role in the ling crime. I was there in July and was the first concerted international campaign to persuade the Minister from any country to visit Darfur since Sudanese Government to accept a UN force in the peace agreement the previous May. What I Darfur. This force was mandated by the UN saw in the Abu Shok displacement camp in Al- Security Council. In October, the General Affairs Fashir, Darfur, was hell on earth. Some 50,000 and External Relations Council reconfirmed its people there were living entirely on aid from full support for the Security Council’s decision NGOs and I saw in stark terms the difficulties and urged the Government of Sudan to give facing people in the circumstances. They came unambiguous consent to its implementation. It from very fertile land but were driven away by was emphasised that a UN operation is the only the conflict. realistic option for a sustainable, long-term I compliment the British Government and peacekeeping operation in Darfur. Prime Minister Blair on the move to propose an In advance of the transition to a UN force, international conference. On the one hand it Ireland and the EU will continue to be involved would put pressure on the Sudanese Govern- in supporting the African Union’s ceasefire moni- ment, while, on the other, it would indicate to the toring force in Darfur, AMIS, so that its effective- Sudanese that there are incentives to be had. The ness can be maximized to the greatest extent Deputy will acknowledge that this is not simply possible. an issue of throwing in UN mandated forces from western powers, effectively adding white soldiers to the maelstrom. Some suggest that this would Mr. M. Higgins: I am grateful to the Minister make Iraq look like a picnic. This issue must be for his reply and do not intend to pursue the issue handled in a sensitive way and Prime Minister of whether the term genocide should be used. Blair’s proposal is welcome. The figures on those who have died suggest a In principle, the Government has no problem concentrated attack on a particular people. Some being involved in or hosting such a conference. 200,000 black, African Muslims have been killed However, I have been to Sudan and met the in two years, approximately 1.45 million people Foreign Minister in recent weeks who is of a have been displaced, with 500,000 in need of different party to the president. Sudanese urgent assistance, and deaths from disease and Government decisions are made by the president. malnutrition, secondary causes, have been esti- If a conference were to be held, it would have to mated at 180,000 in 2005 with another 80,000 be at heads of state level. At EU level we have since added. supported the call by the British Government for I am not interested in the argument of whether a heads of state conference. this is a conflict between settled and nomadic people. Those with the power to bomb villages Mr. M. Higgins: I mentioned a human rights have done so in a concentrated way. On the other activist detained in Sudan. hand, factions have emerged representing signa- tories and non-signatories of the peace Mr. D. Ahern: I assure the Deputy that we will agreement. pursue this case. The Deputy also raised another The current UK proposal for an international issue. conference of Heads of State has not been accepted by the President of Sudan. However, Mr. M. Higgins: That issue related to hosting there is a suggestion that a meeting at the level of the conference, but the Minister has already dealt Ministers of Foreign Affairs might be acceptable. with that. Would the Government consider facilitating such a meeting as a preparatory phase for the meeting Mr. D. Ahern: Having visited Darfur just a few proposed by the UK? months ago, it is clear that circumstances have Most recently, the Sudanese President seems to worsened and quite a number of people have have accepted the strengthening and increase in been killed or displaced since then. The position the African Union presence. It will act for the is going from bad to worse and the international United Nations with logistics provided by non- community must adopt a strong stance. However, Africans. it is not a simple issue of throwing in a UN-man- 555 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 556

[Mr. D. Ahern.] As regards the conference, I am not saying that dated force. I saw for myself when I visited Al Ireland would not be involved in such a con- Fashir, the headquarters of the AMIS in Darfur, ference. However, I would question whether it that they were doing a difficult job with relatively would produce any result. Having visited Darfur small numbers. While I am happy that a decision and spent quite a lot of time with Sudanese Mini- has been taken to beef up the AMIS, it needs sters, I believe the power rests with the president. logistical support from major forces. When I was The focus should be put on the president and not there the force had 7,000 troops in an area one taken from him. That is why I welcome the Brit- and a half times the size of France. One can see ish initiative. I will instruct my officials and, at the difficulties that such a force would have. the next meeting, I will personally raise the issue This is a key issue and must be handled sensi- of the proposed conference, preferably at heads tively at international level. I met the head of the of state level. African Union in Addis Ababa on the same trip. He had just returned from a meeting of the 77. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for African Union where many of his colleagues had Foreign Affairs if his attention has been drawn to put pressure on the Sudanese president to accept the fact that at least 11,000 child soldiers in the UN involvement in Darfur. Democratic Republic of the Congo are either still with armed groups or unaccounted for more than Mr. M. Higgins: My proposal for an Irish pre- two years after the country began demobilising its paratory conference might be constructed on the boy and girl fighters; and if he will raise this issue basis of addressing regional issues. This affects at the United Nations. [34711/06] not only Sudan, but also Chad, the Central African Republic and Uganda. The preparatory Minister of State at the Department of Foreign conference could focus on the regional issues and Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): The recent Amnesty provide an opening for the heads of state meeting International report on child soldiers has high- that is at the heart of the British proposal. lighted one of the most disturbing elements of the Mr. Abulgasem Ahmed Abulgasem has been conflict in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, arrested and moved to Sudan. He was a partici- DRC. As the report recommends, the new pant in the Abuja talks where he represented the government which will shortly take office in the Sudan Liberation Movement, hence the sensi- Democratic Republic of the Congo must priorit- tivity of his position. ise the treatment of children who have been Those of us interested in such issues are tested involved in the long-term conflict there. by something which is not being driven forward Under international law, the recruitment and at UN level, namely, the difference between use of children under 15 in a conflict is considered humanitarian intervention and humanitarian pro- a war crime. The International Criminal Court, tection. Does the Minister agree that using sover- which is carrying out an investigation at the eignty as a shield while massive loss of life and request of the DRC Government, should fully dislocation is taking place is an abuse of the con- investigate any reports of children being recruited cept of sovereignty? It is irrelevant at this stage and used in conflict. Ireland and its EU partners whether we describe this as genocide. The inter- will also continue to highlight the issue of child national community must have the right to inter- soldiers in the DRC in relevant UN fora, includ- vene where a state is not protecting a significant ing the ongoing General Assembly session. part of its population. We must all come to terms It is important not to underestimate the scale with this. of the overall challenge which confronts the DRC and its people, now that it is on the verge of sec- Mr. D. Ahern: I agree entirely with what the uring its first democratically elected government Deputy has said. My EU colleagues and I dis- in more than 40 years. Some 3 million people are cussed protecting the principle enshrined within still displaced in the DRC, while an estimated the UN reform package. This is the first instance 1,200 people die daily from preventable conflict- where the international community has a related causes. Basic services are either severely responsibility to protect vulnerable people. We degraded or non-existent — there is only 500 km are not at this stage yet. of paved road in a country the size of western We must be careful in how we deal with this. Europe. The greatest focus must be on the president, who If there is to be any chance of confronting the hopes to become the head of the African Union many challenges the country faces, the inter- in January 2007. I have told our EU colleagues national community will have to stay actively that I believe we should use our influence, partic- engaged in the DRC. Ireland and its EU partners ularly in Africa, to let the Sudanese president are taking the lead in this regard. The EU and know that if he wishes to accede to the chair of its member states have provided the bulk of the the African Union, he must do so in such a way financing for the current electoral process which that concurs with the views of most member is due to conclude on 29 October. The EU is also nations that a joint African Union-United actively engaged in supporting vital security sec- Nations mandated force should be allowed into tor reform in the DRC and has deployed the Sudan. EUFOR mission to support the UN peace- 557 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 558 keeping mission during the current electoral account over these children who have not been period. reintegrated into the community. The international community is also providing Ireland does not shy away from this. We think substantial support to assist with the demobilis- it is a scandal that children are used as soldiers. ation and reintegration of former combatants in It is a terrible problem across Africa. We saw the DRC. This forms part of a wider regional similar situations in Sierra Leone, Liberia and programme, the multi-country demobilisation Darfur, where young people are running around and reintegration programme, which is led by the with Kalashnikov rifles having been enticed by World Bank. In response to a request from the money, drugs and, in the poor settings of these World Bank, the Government and Irish Aid has countries, the desire to escape their existing mis- decided that Ireland should provide financial sup- ery by participating in these armies. It is a compli- port for this programme, the largest of its kind cated issue to address because people are in the world, which aims at demobilising 350,000 recruited as children for the money and the good former combatants in seven countries of the life offered by an escape from the extreme pov- Great Lakes region. By providing support for this erty of their homes in countries experiencing con- programme, amounting to \500,000 in 2006, flict. Often it is more enjoyable for youngsters to Ireland will be in a better position to join the take off with these warlords than to stay at home. other donors in urging the new DRC Govern- We are focused on the issue. ment to ensure it gives greater priority to the needs of former child soldiers. Nuclear Disarmament Initiative. 78. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Foreign Mr. F. McGrath: Does the Minister agree that Affairs the steps being taken by his Department this type of exploitation of children is to convey Ireland’s condemnation of recent unacceptable and what will he do about it at nuclear testing to the North Korean regime; the United Nations level? Does the Minister accept further steps being taken to press for reform of that these young boys and girls should be in the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; and if he will school receiving education, playing games and liv- make a statement on the matter. [34715/06] ing a normal childhood rather than finding them- selves conscripted as child soldiers? What specific Mr. D. Ahern: Following a statement of intent targets should the UN have? Can 50% of these issued on 3 October, the Democratic People’s 11,000 children be placed in education and proper Republic of Korea announced that it had carried care by 2007? What investment is being spent on out an underground nuclear test on 9 October. I these children by the EU, the UN and others? immediately strongly condemned this provocative What role do drugs play? Many of these children action by the DPRK. It is a serious threat to the are souped up on drugs which causes a level of security and stability of the region, as well as a violence rarely seen anywhere in the world. direct contravention of the international objec- I welcome the Minister pointing out that any- tives of nuclear disarmament and non-prolifer- one who involves children under 15 years of age ation. It ignored the will of the international com- in such activities is committing a war crime. It is munity and ran counter to the patient efforts of unacceptable that in 2006, 11,000 the DPRK’s neighbours to work constructively to 3 o’clock children are being exploited in such find a diplomatic solution through the six party \ a manner. I welcome the 500,000 talks process. donation from Ireland to combat this problem, My statement of condemnation was communi- but to help these children who are seriously at cated to the DPRK authorities through its risk, the EU and United Nations must put proper embassy in London. Finland, acting as Presi- investment in place. dency, also issued a statement on behalf of the EU. At the current session of the First Commit- Mr. C. Lenihan: The international fund I tee of the UN General Assembly, Ireland, referred to has a target of \300 million to assist together with our partners in the New Agenda with the demobilisation and reintegration pro- Coalition, tabled a resolution condemning the cess. Ireland is playing its part — since 2003 we DRPK’s test of a nuclear device and emphasising have contributed \12 million to the conflict areas the central role of the NPT in achieving nuclear in emergency and recovery funding. We provided disarmament and non-proliferation. \6 million this year and, on top of that, we are However, it is clear in the case of DPRK that providing \1.3 million for the electoral process. words of condemnation must also be backed by The hope is that by the second round of elections concrete action. On 14 October, the United due at the end of this month, the situation will Nations Security Council unanimously adopted have stabilised. A total of 19,000 have already Resolution 1718 empowering the international been demobilised under this and other prog- community to enforce specific sanctions, includ- rammes run by the Congolese Government. It is ing an arms embargo, as well as a ban on any a scandal that 11,000 children are still in this posi- items which could contribute to the DPRK’s tion but we will work on that and Ireland is in a nuclear, ballistic missile or WMD programmes. position to hold the Congolese Government to At the meeting of the General Affairs and Exter- 559 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 560

[Mr. D. Ahern.] accepted, however, that it faces major challenges nal Relations Council last week, the EU commit- and the review conference in 2005 was a grave ted itself to the full implementation of Security disappointment. In September 2005, when the Council Resolution 1718, as well as Resolution UN reform package was finalised, I echoed the 1695, adopted in July in response to the DPRK’s words of Kofi Annan on the NPT. The fact that earlier controversial ballistic missile tests. We are there are challenges should not deflect us from currently taking the necessary steps to ensure encouraging all states to participate in the NPT. Ireland’s full compliance with these two res- Under the treaty, it is accepted that countries olutions. can have nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. As regards the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation They have that right and it is not fair to say that of Nuclear Weapons, the testing of a nuclear countries with that capability can quickly proceed explosive device by DPRK is a matter of grave to a military mode. It is the case that the treaty is concern. Since the DPRK’s announced with- under pressure and Ireland, with other countries drawal from the NPT in 2003 and subsequent dec- in the New Agenda Coalition, strongly promotes laration that it possesses nuclear weapons, the the review of the NPT constantly. The proposed international community has consistently urged agreement between the US and India is one of a the DPRK to abandon its policy, completely dis- series of issues that are not yet finalised and they mantle its nuclear weapons programme and com- put pressure on the treaty but we should not ply fully with its obligations under the NPT. remove our focus from the twin approach in the Review conferences of the NPT take place NPT, of which Ireland was an architect many every five years and afford an opportunity to years ago, in less complicated but more danger- review the implementation of the treaty and all ous times. In those days there were only two its provisions. The next scheduled NPT review powers but there is now a multiplicity of powers. conference will take place in 2010 and will be pre- That is why the NPT is based on multilateralism. ceded by a series of preparatory meetings begin- It is much better to have countries adopt prin- ning in 2007. Regrettably, the last review con- ciples to which we can all adhere, even though we ference, in May 2005, ended without agreement may not agree with them on nuclear energy. on substantive conclusions and recommendations Ireland is ready, willing and able to provide on how to strengthen the non-proliferation assistance and we informed the United Nations regime. Secretary General a year ago that we would par- I have constantly made clear that the effective ticipate in any effort to try to ensure that the non- implementation of all aspects of the NPT, includ- proliferation treaty, the twin track policy of non- ing the nuclear weapons states’ commitment to proliferation and disarmament, should be the disarmament, would serve to strengthen the glo- hallmark of the approach to the nuclear-military bal non-proliferation context. The entry into issue. force of the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty would also be a positive step. This is in Mr. Allen: Does the Minister agree that there no way to suggest that the course adopted by the has been an erosion of the main tenets of the non- DPRK’s dangerous and totalitarian regime has proliferation treaty which could lead to a cascade any shred of justification. of proliferation? These are not my words but those of a United Nations report published in Mr. Allen: Almost 60 countries now have 2004. Double standards and sickening hypocrisy nuclear reactors for research or power generation are evident with regard to the non-proliferation and 40 have the industrial and scientific infra- treaty. Different standards are applied to Iran as structure to build a nuclear weapon at short are applied to India, Israel and Pakistan. Surely notice. The US has entered an agreement to pass it is time for uniformity in global standards on on nuclear technology to India, which is not a sig- non-proliferation because without it nuclear wea- natory to the NPT, and Iran, Israel and Pakistan pons will inevitably get into the hands of terror- have nuclear weapons. Does the Minister agree ists who will hold democratically elected govern- that we are reaching a point of no return where ments to ransom. This is not a comic book the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons treaty is scenario but a realistic proposition in the event becoming defunct? that we do not get our act together. Waiting until In view of the Minister’s admission that the 2010 to hold another round-table conference with talks about a review of the treaty ended in failure no guarantees of success will mean we are too at the United Nations in 2006, there is now urgent late. Ireland has a moral right to exert pressure need to reconvene the talks on the treaty, not to on this matter because, as the Minister agrees, we wait until 2010, which may be too late. As a coun- were the architects of the non-proliferation try that was an architect of the treaty, we should treaty. act as a global leader to get people around the table to deal with this deadly issue before it is Mr. D. Ahern: No one is waiting until 2010. too late. The non-proliferation treaty is in place and only a handful of nations are not part of it. The vast Mr. D. Ahern: It is not my view or that of the majority of the international community partici- Government that the NPT is defunct. It is pates in and adheres to the treaty, although a 561 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 562 number of countries, including Iran and North package and the timetable for implementation of Korea, have deviated from it. the agreement. We have asked the parties to confirm accept- Mr. Allen: India is not a signatory. ance of the agreement by 10 November so that the timetable we have laid out for the nomination Mr. D. Ahern: One cannot equate recent of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister in events in Iran with those in North Korea. The November and the restoration of the executive in international community, at the Security Council, March can be met. The timetable provides that, proposed relatively draconian sanctions against following endorsement of the St. Andrews agree- North Korea on the basis of that country’s ment by the parties, legislation will be passed at declared intent and follow-up action. The pur- Westminster in the week beginning 20 November pose of the Security Council decision was to to address a number of practical changes to the forcefully suggest to North Korea that it cannot operation of the institutions of the Good Friday succeed. Agreement. These changes arise from the 2004 review of the Agreement and more recent Mr. Allen: That is where the double standards detailed engagement between the parties, includ- and hypocrisy are evident. ing in the preparation for government committee. Mr. D. Ahern: I understand the Democratic This engagement is ongoing and as the parties Republic of North Korea has given an under- continue their discussions in the coming weeks, taking to China that it will not proceed with we will closely monitor further developments. further action. The timetable for implementation of the St. It is simplistic to state that Ireland should lead Andrews agreement also foresees an electoral the way. Ireland is one of a number of countries endorsement in March next year. As the to the fore as regards adherence to the non-pro- Taoiseach stated in this House last week, it is liferation treaty and trying to persuade the inter- clear from our discussions at St. Andrews that national community as a whole to continue on the some form of electoral endorsement of the agree- track of non-proliferation and disarmament. This ment as a whole will be required before the for- can only be achieved in conjunction with other mation of an executive. The form such an like-minded countries. I accept that certain coun- endorsement would take in Northern Ireland is tries want to have it both ways. In my statements not yet decided, nor is the question of whether a to the review conference and the United Nations, referendum might be required here. I did not put a tooth in my statement that some Before coming to a conclusion on this matter, of the countries that wish to ensure there is non- the Government will want to know that parties proliferation are, at the same time, not prepared are prepared to continue working within the to disarm. framework we outlined at St. Andrews and to consider the outcome of the discussions between Mr. Allen: The Minister’s comment that it is the parties on institutional issues. These dis- simplistic to argue that Ireland should lead the cussions are continuing at Stormont in the frame- way is disingenuous. Ireland has a role to play. work of the preparation for government commit- The United States deals with India, which has not tee, which is likely to continue its work at least signed the non-proliferation treaty. until the end of this month. The Government does not intend to rush to judgment in advance of Northern Ireland Issues. clarity on these points. Any further developments 79. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for will then be taken into account by the Attorney Foreign Affairs if it is the Government’s view that General, whose advice will guide our further con- a referendum may be necessary on the St. siderations at Government. Andrews agreement and, if so, his views on the circumstances of such a public consultation. Mr. M. Higgins: Half of my question was disal- [34713/06] lowed by the Office of the Ceann Comhairle. In a communication, the Ceann Comhairle stated: Mr. D. Ahern: The proposed agreement pub- I regret that I have had to disallow the lished by the Governments at St. Andrews com- underlined part of the following question prehensively addressed the core issues standing tabled by you: in the way of the restoration of the power-sharing institutions of the Good Friday Agreement. It To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the sets out a clear way forward for all parties to com- matters in relation to the St. Andrews agree- mit to the full operation of stable power-sharing ment upon which he sought or is seeking the government and the North-South and east-west opinion of the Attorney General; the sub- arrangements and to full support for policing and stance of the opinion as has been received in the criminal justice institutions, including the relation to such matters; if it is the Govern- policing board. It also sets out in some detail the ment’s view that a referendum may be neces- practical changes proposed to the operation of sary; and if so, his views on the circumstances the institutions, the arrangements for a financial of such a public consultation. 563 Priority 25 October 2006. Questions 564

[Mr. M. Higgins.] Taoiseach, on separate occasions and together, as The Minister has no official responsibility to well as the Ta´naiste, were in contact with the Da´il E´ ireann for advice that is sought or Attorney General’s office and the Attorney received from the Attorney General. General personally regarding the ongoing dis- Although this matter can be pursued elsewhere, cussions. It is only a political document. I do not agree with the Ceann Comhairle. Per- Only when the Attorney General sees the col- haps the Attorney General can be asked a ques- our of the legislation that is proposed by the Brit- tion through the Taoiseach. ish and flows from this agreement can he make Turning to the practicalities of this issue, I hope a determination as to whether a referendum is the ongoing talks are a success. My question sim- required on an amendment to an international ply asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if it is agreement. Parties on the other side of the House the Government’s view that a referendum may would be the first to complain if the Government be necessary. There are some fundamental issues proceeded to make fundamental changes to the beyond the finalised text, upon which the Good Friday Agreement. We will not do this off Government may have received an opinion. The the tops of our heads or, as some people snidely British-Irish Agreement is lodged in Article remarked, for partisan reasons. We will do it 29.7.2° of the Constitution, while the agreement based on the advice of the Attorney General and produced by the multi-party talks is attached to nothing else. If the Attorney General advises that the British-Irish Agreement by way of an annexe. a referendum should be held in the South, we will I do not have time, nor would it be appropriate hold one irrespective—— at Question Time, to discuss whether the two documents form an integral piece. Is it not pos- Mr. Gormley: The start of the election sible, on a reading of the Crotty case, to give a campaign. straightforward opinion as to whether Article 28, which deals with decision making institutions of Mr. C. Lenihan: Who is afraid of the this State, is affected in principle by any del- electorate? egation of executive powers outside the borders of the State? That is a matter upon which one can Mr. D. Ahern: If that is his attitude, God help have a forward opinion, irrespective of the detail Ireland if the Deputy ever gets into Government. of the final outcome of the talks. If the Deputy thinks decisions are made on a par- It is extraordinary that the Attorney General’s tisan basis—— opinion, whether it exists, cannot be a matter of accountability. Far more serious, however, is the Mr. Gormley: The Minister would never do issue of whether it is possible to have devolved that. arrangements for decision making which may or may not be affected by Article 28, as understood Mr. D. Ahern: ——they are not. In the unlikely in the review of the Crotty case, on foot of the event that the Deputy arrives on this side of the fact that the British-Irish Agreement and its House, he will learn that it is very easy to be on annexe, form part of Article 29.7.2° of the Consti- that side of the House—— tution. On that substantial matter, it is surely important to have an opinion to provide a basic Mr. Gormley: Fianna Fa´il would never act out orientation on the issue. I hope substantial agree- of party political interest. ment will be reached on a text. Mr. D. Ahern: One has a responsibility when Mr. D. Ahern: The practice of the Minister for one is on this side of the House—— Foreign Affairs or any Minister being answerable to the Da´il on the basis of the Attorney General’s Mr. Gormley: It is way above all that. advice has not changed since Deputy Michael Higgins was a Minister. Mr. D. Ahern: ——and I will take none of that nonsense from the likes of the Deputy. Mr. M. Higgins: I always took the Attorney General’s advice very seriously. Mr. Allen: Remember the Anglo-Irish Agreement. Mr. D. Ahern: The Deputy might say that was then and this is now, but it is a fact that the Mr. D. Ahern: The St. Andrew’s agreement is Attorney General is not answerable to this House nothing more than a political agreement between and Ministers are not answerable for the the two Governments. The parties have yet to Attorney General’s advice. The Attorney commit to it. With regard to whether there is an General is the legal adviser to the Government. election or a referendum in the North, the What was agreed at St. Andrew’s was a politi- Taoiseach covered that in his replies to questions cal document. The document was whittled out in the House this morning. after two and a half days of intensive discussions. Of course, the Attorney General was aware of Mr. C. Lenihan: They could be held on the the contents as they were evolving. I and the same day. 565 Other 25 October 2006. Questions 566

Mr. M. Higgins: I appreciate the Minister’s in the Oireachtas Library, I began by acknowl- reply and I am not attributing any ulterior edging the contribution of Secretary General motive. Annan and reviewing the progress of UN reform. I then moved on to key elements of the Mr. Allen: The Deputy protests too much. Government’s approach to development, as set out in the White Paper on Irish Aid which we had Mr. M. Higgins: It is not the colour of the launched a few days previously. I set out in some agreement that will decide whether the Govern- detail our approach to the situation in Darfur and ment needs an opinion from the Attorney the Middle East and also referred to Burma, Iran General on a constitutional referendum. The and North Korea. I emphasised the importance reason I made specific reference to the Crotty Ireland attaches to the issues of disarmament and case is that there are circumstances where one human rights. As is customary, I briefly outlined could invoke that case and there are other cir- developments in relation to Northern Ireland. cumstances in which it would not be appropriate Finally, I underlined Ireland’s commitment to to invoke it. On the basis of the framework playing a part in conflict prevention and resol- opinion relating to, for example, that which is ution. I told the General Assembly that, as set protected constitutionally within Article 28, it is out in the White Paper, we had decided to estab- possible to arrive at an opinion that there will be lish an Irish conflict analysis and resolution sup- some or any change. port unit. It will seek to harness the experience, My case is not solely based on the fact the Brit- resources and expertise generated by the peace ish-Irish Agreement and annexe are there process in Northern Ireland, our involvement in together or are, in fact, an integral document or peacekeeping and the Irish Aid programme. that they are simply mentioned in Article 29.7.2 Detailed proposals regarding the organisation but that any movement would so affect Article 28 and work programme of the new unit are being that it would make a constitutional referendum developed within my Department. necessary. It may well be the Government decision is to wait to see that upon which it will Mr. Gormley: In the Minister’s wide ranging seek a consultation, but on the general principle speech he said there was a need for further as to whether there is, as it were, a disturbance restrictions on the use of cluster bombs. Is this of Article 28’s protection of institutional decision- not just a pious platitude? Should we not be call- making within the territory that is the State and ing for a ban on cluster bombs? Is it not the case so forth, one might be able to anticipate that a that currently Irish troops are in Lebanon assist- constitutional referendum will be necessary. ing Finnish troops in clearing up the more than 1 million cluster bombs there? Should we not learn Mr. D. Ahern: Much of what the Deputy said from that experience? Is it not the case that clus- was a comment, not a question. The tenor of the ter bombs are part of the arsenal of the new EU discussion with the Attorney General was in the battle group? Looking at all the evidence, should context of the implications of the Crotty decision the Minister not be much stronger in his com- and whether the Government can, unilaterally ments and have a more defined goal? Should he and without reference to the people, make any not call for a ban on cluster bombs? amendment to the Good Friday Agreement or The Minister indicated that Ireland supports an any international agreement. We are awaiting the arms trade treaty. This is welcome. Is it not the Attorney General’s view but his view cannot be case that Amnesty International has produced a given until he sees the legislation relating to the number of reports which show that Ireland is institutional arrangements, particularly those in already involved in the arms trade through dual- Strand 1 and Strand 2. use weaponry? Indeed, according to that organis- ation, we have become involved, through dual- Other Questions. use exports, in conflicts in Liberia, the Demo- cratic Republic of Congo and Sierra Leone. Has ———— the Minister spoken to his colleague, the Mini- ster, Deputy Martin, about the arms brokering Official Engagements. legislation which was promised for this autumn, 80. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for although there is still no sign of it? Can the Mini- Foreign Affairs if he will report on his speech to ster discuss that legislation? This is an important the UN General Assembly in September 2006; issue for the Minister for Foreign Affairs. and if he will make a statement on the matter. I was amazed that there was no mention of Iraq [34477/06] in the Minister’s speech. What is the Irish Government’s position on Iraq? When 100,000 Mr. D. Ahern: The annual national address to people protested in the streets of Dublin, the the UN General Assembly provides an oppor- Taoiseach and the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, tunity to set out Ireland’s approach to inter- said Ireland opposed the war. Are we opposed to national issues of our day. In my speech of 26 this futile war in Iraq and does the Minister September, which can be seen on the Depart- believe the United States and its allies should ment’s website and a copy of which I have placed withdraw? 567 Other 25 October 2006. Questions 568

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I remind the number of other issues. What will be the Govern- House that supplementary questions on other ment’s attitude at the forthcoming nuclear sup- questions are limited to one minute. pliers group meeting? Will it be opposing the dangerous deal to which I refer? Mr. D. Ahern: There is a multinational force in Iraq. The UN, by unanimous vote of the Security Mr. D. Ahern: We have not yet made a Council, authorised the continuation of the multi- decision in respect of that deal, nor should we national force. This is something the Deputy and until the final version of it emerges. As the his colleagues tend to forget. When America and Deputy is aware, a special representative of the the UK originally entered Iraq, we did not sup- Prime Minister of India met me, and also the port their action. However, the UN subsequently Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, and I force- passed a number of resolutions — the most recent fully put to him my views on behalf of Ireland, of these was the subject of a unanimous vote — as a member of the New Agenda Coalition and to allow Iraq to be rebuilt and to permit the Iraqi indicated that this is an issue about which we are people to assume responsibility for their destiny. gravely concerned. We have not made a decision The international force is in place, with a full UN on the deal because we must wait to see what will mandate with which we comply. Regardless of be the implications. We are concerned that it will whether the Deputy likes it, that is the Govern- have implications for the non-proliferation treaty, ment’s position. NPT. Much work remains to be done. I under- stand that the process to put the deal through the Mr. Gormley: It is the George Bush-Tony US Congress has not yet been decided and that Blair position. it will probably be next year before anything hap- pens in this regard. It would be premature to Mr. D. Ahern: I am glad Deputy Gormley made a decision until we discover exactly what referred to cluster bombs because Ireland has is involved. recently been to the fore at the Convention on Conventional Weapons in this regard. Ireland, Mr. Allen: As of now, what is the Minister’s along with a number of countries, proposed that opinion? the restrictions on the use of cluster bombs be tightened dramatically. In the context of what Mr. D. Ahern: At a recent meeting on this issue took place in the Lebanon in recent months, we in Vienna, Ireland was to the fore in asking the condemned the use of cluster bombs. It was as a relevant questions regarding the implications the result of what we learned was happening in the deal will have for the NPT. Lebanon that we proposed, at the most recent meeting of the convention, that the use of cluster Emigrant Support Services. bombs against innocent civilians be severely restricted. 81. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the funding for Irish emigrant groups in Mr. Gormley: Why not introduce a total ban? England providing services for Irish emigrants; I also asked the Minister about his conversations and if he will make a statement on the matter. with the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and [34675/06] Employment, Deputy Martin, regarding arms brokering legislation. Mr. D. Ahern: The strong commitment of the Government to support the Irish community Mr. D. Ahern: The latter is an issue for the abroad is reflected in the unprecedented level of Minister, Deputy Martin, and I will raise it with funding secured for emigrant services. This year, him. \12 million is available for that purpose. This fig- Ireland would very much welcome a total ban ure represents an increase of 45% on 2005 and is and that is why we are working at the Convention 12 times greater than the allocation in 1997 when on Conventional Weapons to drive cluster bombs the Government came to office. out of use altogether. The interests and needs of the Irish community in Britain continue to be a matter of particular Mr. Gormley: So the Minister wants a total importance for the Government. Most of the ban. available funding is directed to organisations there that are engaged in a wide range of com- Mr. Allen: In his speech at the United Nations, munity care activities of benefit to Irish people. the Minister stated that he shared the Secretary Increased funding is having a very tangible and General’s outrage at the failure to make any ref- positive effect. So far this year, 142 organisations erence to nuclear disarmament in the summit in Britain, of which 129 are located in England, statement. In view of his outrage, what is the have received grants amounting to \8 million. I Minister’s attitude to the deal between the am delighted that our support is extending United States and India — which has not signed beyond the major cities and is, for the first time, the treaty — to which I referred earlier, partic- reaching Irish community groups in many towns. ularly as, in the context of the deal, there are While the primary emphasis of funding con- questions regarding uranium enrichment and a tinues to be on supporting frontline welfare 569 Other 25 October 2006. Questions 570 services, I am pleased that the additional allo- been criticised by the Comptroller and Auditor cation has also made it possible to support a General since its inception, but I make no apol- number of capital projects as well as projects that ogy for it. The pensioners to whom it relates support our community in Britain in its wish to made contributions but did not gain the benefit express its Irish identity. Further applications for of them. The vast majority of pensioners who funding are under consideration and I look for- benefit from it are elderly emigrants living in ward to making an announcement shortly on Britain and the \67 million to which I refer will additional grants. By the end of this year, I expect be added to their relatively small British pen- that funding to the Irish community in Britain will sions. In my view, that is one of the greatest have reached the unprecedented amount of \9 reasons that the circumstances of Irish people liv- million, an increase of some 25% on last year’s ing in Britain have changed dramatically. I figure. accept, however, that difficulties still exist. There The funding I have outlined forms an element has been a dramatic decrease in the number of of a much wider picture of the Government’s Irish homeless in Britain, according to a recent engagement with our community in Britain. report. An official with the Simon Community Officials of the embassy and consulates, as well stated in August that the number of homeless as those in the Irish abroad unit of my Depart- Irish in the six inner-city boroughs had fallen ment, will continue to work closely with our com- from 600 in 1999 to just 100 this year. He attri- munity organisations in Britain and elsewhere. In buted the decrease to the Government’s DION this way, we can ensure that they have a very projects. He stated that millions of pounds had direct channel to Government and that our gone into supporting the Irish to get them off the response to their needs will be effective in the streets of London and that this has had a very period ahead. positive impact. He also stated that the Govern- ment had done its bit and that the Irish taxpayer Aengus O´ Snodaigh: I appreciate the increase had really helped. in funding in recent years, but this is only a small amount. What plans are in place to provide Mr. Allen: Does the Minister share my disap- additional funding beyond this year? The Mini- pointment at the fact that proposed legislation in ster indicated that he hopes to make further the US to help our emigrants has run into the announcements shortly. Is it proposed to provide sand? What is his view of the stalemate that has a substantial increase in funding so that the many arisen there due to the impending elections? groups with which I and others met can ensure Does he think the legislation will be resuscitated that they can properly address the major issues after the election? facing Irish emigrants in their 50s, 60s, 70s and even 80s who are living in squalor and who are An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: This question isolated? Some of these people wish to return to refers to the Irish emigrant groups in England. Ireland, while others are seeking an improvement The Deputy’s question is separate to that. in their quality of life. Are there plans to deliver more packages of the sort that were previously in Mr. Allen: I thought my question would be place in order to encourage or help some Irish allowed. emigrants to return home? When I met represen- tatives of the Irish emigrant groups last year, one Mr. D. Ahern: I am willing to answer it. of the issues put to me was people’s desire to return home to the small communities from Mr. M. Higgins: I welcome the capital projects. which they came and perhaps live out the rest Do I take it that the Department has no problem of their lives there. These people subsidised the in providing capital funding for shared projects? economy when times were hard in this country. The groups serving Irish emigrants in Britain realised that the buildings they are replacing will Mr. D. Ahern: As stated earlier, \9 million will be used by a number of groups. The predominant be given to community groups in Britain this group may well be Irish so the funding may be in year. I can safely say that a greater allocation will the form of capital partnerships and so on. These be made next year in order to honour our com- partnerships will be multi-ethnic. mitment to dramatically increase the funding. As I entirely agree with the Minister about the already indicated, that funding has increased 12 pre-1953 issue. The fact is that 1956 is the year in times since the Government came to office. which most people left Ireland since the Famine It is not often taken into account that when I — 56,000 people left. A quarter of a million was Minister for Social, Community and Family people left between 1955 and 1960, so the 1953 Affairs, I made changes in respect of pre-1953 revision helps those people. contributions. The latter allowed Irish pensioners, not only those in this country but also their Mr. D. Ahern: There are many ethnic groups counterparts abroad, to gain benefit from stamps being dealt with in most of the major Irish emi- they paid prior to 1953. This year alone, \67 mil- grant centres. I want the system to be as flexible lion will be paid to 14,000 Irish pensioners under as possible and I suggested to my officials that as this scheme. The scheme to which I refer has we had built the funding up to a critical mass, we 571 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 572

[Mr. D. Ahern.] “for which the Minister will be account- should provide some small capital grants. Emi- able to the Oireachtas”. grant centre officials have told me that if they I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I could inform the local authority in London, Manchester or wherever that they had obtained thought that I was seeing things for a moment, funding from the Irish Government, the local but I presume the Minister will be back soon. authorities in the UK would follow on. That has been beneficial. Mr. Browne: He will be back later. The situation in the US on the legislation for emigrants is a source of disappointment, but we Mr. Durkan: He was not in any way magnani- are keeping a close eye on it. I was in the US mous while he was here. We had hoped that he recently where I met representatives of the ILIR, might start off with a certain amount of magna- the lobby group for Irish emigrants. I also met nimity, but we will have to see how things pro- representatives of emigrant advice centres and we gress. This amendment is important for the same are keeping a close eye on things. The legislation reason I mentioned previously. It requires that is not dead. The mid-term elections have knocked the Minister be accountable to the House, and I all legislation off course, including the US-India have been pursuing this theme throughout the agreement. We will come back to it, but I do not Bill. It relates to the lack of accountability to the know whether we will come back to it as before House and the lack of ability of Members of the or find another way of doing it. House to raise questions that are relevant to this Bill or any similar legislation. Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate. The Bill will be activated in segments and, in discussion on the previous amendment, we noted Adjournment Debate Matters. those segments that will not come into operation except on a phased basis, which is fine. The Mini- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I wish to advise ster mentioned that these parts of the Bill would the House of the following matters in respect of come into operation by way of an order which which notice has been given under Standing would be laid before the Houses of the Order 21 and the name of the Member in each Oireachtas. That is fine, but it does not address case: (1) Deputy Gogarty — that the Minister the issue. There is an urgent need for a greater ensure that the HSE sorts out the difficulty degree of accountability and a greater degree of involving patients receiving continued treatment relevance for the House regarding this and other by a doctor; (2) Deputy Curran — the agreement Bills. entered into by the Reception and Integration Since I first became a Member of this House, I Agency to provide asylum accommodation at have seen a gradual dismissal of Members of the Towers Hotel, Clondalkin; (3) Deputy O’Sullivan House on all sides and the gradual growth of the — the need for the Minister to provide secure amorphous mass, previously in the hands of the funding for the Bluebell ABA school for children Minister, which is now delegated or relegated to with autism in Limerick; (4) Deputy O’Dowd — various groups and bodies. The Minister will have \ that the Minister outline his plans to collect 40 no responsibility to the House for these groups million outstanding car tax; (5) Deputies Paul and bodies. When we put down a question in the McGrath and Penrose — the delay in imple- Da´il, we are told that the question is not a matter menting the announced decentralisation of the for the Minister, but for the commissioner or Department of Education and Science head- somebody else who has not been elected and is quarters to Mullingar, County Westmeath; (6) only accountable to the House once a year Deputies Michael Moynihan, Ferris and Sherlock through the Committee of Public Accounts or — that the Minister take steps to ensure that other relevant committee. That is unsatisfactory. Greencore honour Labour Court recom- I do not want to delay the progress of this Bill mendations; and (7) Deputy McHugh — to dis- through the House, but this is being repeated cuss broadband for Tuam, County Galway. again and again, and as long as I am in the House The matters raised by Deputies Curran, — depending on the whim of the people one can Michael Moynihan, Ferris and Sherlock and never tell when that might end — I will repeat O’Dowd have been selected for discussion. that point again and again.

Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Mr. Browne: The Deputy is all right, he has a Report Stage (Resumed). safe seat. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendment No. Mr. Durkan: It is critical to the House in so 8 may be discussed with amendments Nos. 10 far as duty, responsibility and accountability are and 11. concerned. Sadly, our system is becoming more like the American and European systems, where Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 8: less accountability is evident in the House and In page 4, line 11, after “market” to insert more responsibility and accountability is del- the following: egated to groups outside the House over whom 573 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 574 we have no control. This process sets aside the in the Bill. I do not know how they will be trans- House and makes its Members irrelevant. posed into law but we are looking forward hopefully. Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Mr. Browne: The responsibilities of the CER (Mr. Browne): These amendments are not include ensuring market stability and encouraging accepted as they would have the net effect of new market entrants; ensuring that tariffs are cost interfering with the independence of the regu- reflective; not discriminating unfairly between lator and would add an unnecessary bureaucratic licensed operators in the State sector, such as layer to the process and the date of delivery of ESB or Bord Ga´is or the private sector; and the single electricity market. It is considered that exercising its functions in a manner that protects the CER is already sufficiently accountable under the interests of the final customers. It is important the Electricity Regulation Act 1999 with regard to maintain the independence of the regulator on to the performance of its duties to a joint commit- tariff decisions to avoid political interference. tee of the Oireachtas. It should also be noted that There has been criticism of political interference given that the single electricity market is a South- which would undermine the necessary invest- North matter, with considerable political issues to ments in the network. be addressed prior to it being established, we With regard to the delegation of functions to should refrain as a rule from anything that might the CER, the Oireachtas Joint Committee on impact upon this to the detriment of the overall Communications, Marine and Natural Resources process. Deputy Durkan referred to coming back can and does call the CER to account for its per- to the House. I am sure they will have at least formance of these delegated functions. The CER one seat in his constituency. is accountable to the Minister and, more importantly, to the joint committee which can Mr. Durkan: I will do my best but one can summon him at any time for discussions on his never be sure of anything, although I am sure the performance. Minister of State would like to do his best to accommodate the amendments. I do not accept Mr. Durkan: The committee can ask him ques- the independence of the regulator. It is a crazy tions but he is not accountable. and outlandish notion. As has been evident in the past few weeks, regulators make decisions about An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy Durkan the prices of electricity and gas against a back- may reply. drop of oil prices falling internationally. In one case, oil was available free on the London Mr. Durkan: I was afraid the Minister of State market. If one had a bucket, one could have was going to read out that reply. I will try to be loaded it up and taken it home. Against that a good boy and not interfere as much. I could backdrop, the regulator was able to increase the anticipate the list of responsibilities of the regu- prices of electricity and gas, yet the Minister of lator. However, I do not accept that and in my State says the regulator should be independent. I view there are serious flaws in the system. There have no doubt that the regulator, like Ministers, would be serious political embarrassment if we should be highly accountable to the House. This persist with the notion that we should have this has nothing to do with politics but with account- so-called degree of impartiality by setting up a ability in so far as the provision of a vital and series of groups and agencies with responsibilities urgent utility service is a serious issue. that were previously invested in the Minister and I do not wish to lose the objectivity of the in the House and which are gone. debate but there are serious issues looming on I asked a parliamentary question about the the horizon if the Department is of the view that arbitrary increases in the price of fuel and tele- regulators are the ultimate in terms of account- communications and the reply from the Ceann ability, wisdom and infallibility. I refer to another Comhairle’s office was that the Minister had no recent situation where whole swathes of people responsibility to the House. Where are we going? with telephone and broadband services were dis- When the public is actively engaged in debate on connected at the wave of a wand, arbitrarily and subjects of this nature, they think very poorly of without warning. I do not accept that the regu- any situation where somebody throws up their lator is the ultimate decision-maker, or should be hands and says: “We have made rules and regu- seen as such, and I fully recognise the sensitivities lations, we are no longer responsible.” The public of the North-South arrangement and the single will come to the conclusion that we are not market. Political responsibility rests here and also responsible and take the necessary action. with the Northern authorities. I am certain they would be the first to say they would wish to have Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. some degree of accountability in these matters. I re-emphasise my belief that the amendment Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 9: is meritorious. The Minister made some accom- modating noises earlier in the House that some- In page 4, line 31, after “Commission” to thing similar might be incorporated at some stage insert the following: 575 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 576

[Mr. Durkan.] the same circuitry could be used to allow small “or from the Commission on the Direction scale generation of less than 5 kW to power up of the Minister”. and provide generation at peak times where it This is a similar amendment to amendment No. would be economic given the high costs of peak 8. I await a firm, robust and warm response from power generation or to allow people investing in the Minister of State. I do not expect such a such renewable technologies the option to response but I try to encourage it. provide power at any other time. That would be a hugely progressive development in our energy Mr. Browne: The proposed amendment is not future. The amendment is simple. The Minister, accepted on the basis that the functions of the Deputy Noel Dempsey, has avowedly said he commission as set out in this section would be supports net metering. The only response we get subject to directions by the Minister under whenever we suggest particular concepts is that section 10 and section 10(A) of the Electricity reports have been commissioned and consultation Regulation Act 1999. The proposed amendment documents initiated and that the Government is is, therefore, unnecessary. in the middle of one on this issue at present. We are beyond consultation and reports and we need Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. to start acting on the basis of the rapidly increas- ing electricity prices and the supposed desire of An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendment No. the Government to achieve 30% use of renew- 10 has been discussed with amendment No. 8. ables by 2020. I urge the Minister of State to accept this amendment as it would allow the com- Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 10: mission the authority to oblige the DSO to move In page 4, line 43, after “2005” to insert “, towards the net metering system in place in many subject to the approval of Da´il E´ ireann”. other countries. I am interested to hear the Government’s arguments given that it is sup- I do not see any great benefit in my pressing the posed to be in favour of such a progression but is amendment because the Minister of State is not against providing for it in the Bill, which is the amenable to accommodating the House. A right and proper location, to ensure that the number of associated amendments have been Legislature and the Executive start to run the tabled. I assure the Minister of State I will be energy system rather than our agencies which pressing a number of them. seem to lack the confidence to make real decisions and instead issue reports and consul- Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. tation documents. Amendments Nos. 11 and 12 not moved. Mr. Broughan: I strongly support the amend- Mr. Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 13: ment tabled by Deputy Ryan and commend him on introducing it. One of the big disappointments In page 5, between lines 10 and 11, to insert of the recent Green Paper on Energy was that it the following: did not contain any reference to micro-generation “(7) In exercising its powers under section and the application of smart metering systems. 9 of the Electricity Act, the Commission shall Many critical areas in energy were not dealt with include an obligation on the DSO to facili- in the Green Paper but I hope that will be rem- tate full value net metering for renewable edied subsequently. I will have some harsh things energy supply generators below 5kW.”. to say about the Commission for Energy Regu- lation on subsequent amendments. I was heart- One of the most important developments needed ened a few days ago when the Commission for in the new energy future is the use of smart elec- Energy Regulation published its arrangements tronic and communications equipment to reduce for a micro-generation consultation paper which, our unnecessary use of energy and the peaks in at least, began the discussion at a formal level of energy demand and to allow the flow back of energy from small scale generation to help micro-generation here. The disappointing aspect balance out and cover the increasing difficulty of the consultation paper is that it shot down the between meeting capacity needs and demand and development of spill net metering. I have the available capacity. received e-mails and telephone calls from citizens One of the reasons we have such expensive all over the country who are disappointed that electricity is the daily peak demand between 5.30 CER seemed to take the wrong angle on this just p.m. and 7 p.m. every evening as people turn on as the debate was starting. It looked at the their kettles to prepare their tea. options in the report in terms of metering and 4 o’clock Anything we can do to reduce this mentioned, for example, net metering, non-inter- demand will make a significant sav- val import-export meters, interval meters and ing in the use of emergency generation. This can smart meters. It appears to be concerned at any be achieved by the use of smart electronic impact on larger generators. Therefore, it comes communications systems which switch off down against what would have been an attract- unnecessary devices at peak times. Just as easily, ive option. 577 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 578

This side of the House has put forward a and we are legislating in regard to the powers of number of proposals for a more distributed elec- the commissioner, I find it remarkable that in this tricity network for encouraging householders to instance the Legislature and the Executive are begin to look at micro-generation. I saw the balking at implementing policy in which it advertisements in B&Q recently for solar panels believes. What assurance can the Minister of and other domestic generators. Commerce is way State give that the consultation process carried ahead of the Minister in this regard and, certainly, out by CER will lead to an outcome with which the United Kingdom has begun to go down the the Government will be satisfied, given that the road whereas all we have received so far is a Government is avowedly in favour of the intent negative consultation paper from CER. This sim- of this amendment? ple amendment to facilitate full value net meter- ing below 5 kW is reasonable and could start us Mr. Durkan: It is interesting that this is pre- on the road to an effective micro-generation net- cisely what I was referring to in the last amend- work and encourage householders and businesses ment, namely who is calling the shots particularly to take responsibility for their energy needs. on policy. Policy should be retained in the hands I said at one of our committee meetings that of the Minister and the House. There is no point Thomas Edison, the great inventor in electricity, in saying this is European legislation transposed foresaw a distributed network of electricity gen- into our legislation. That is of no benefit to con- eration and usage throughout America. Perhaps sumers here or those in charge of transmission. I the wheel is beginning to come full circle. This is am familiar with the cautious approach of Eirgrid an area we should encourage. I second the and the regulators. We all have a reasonable idea amendment. as to the reasons for caution. What the Minister of State should demand is the scientific evidence Mr. Browne: The amendment is not being and the technical evidence to back up the case. accepted. We do not object in principle to Deputy Is it instability or are there other reasons? If the Ryan’s support of marked electronic metering Minister of State does not call for the proof and and the various potential benefits it may bring to washes his hands of it and leaves the matter to energy efficiency. However, the amendment is the regulator more power, in terms of dictation premature while the Commission for Energy of policy, will pass into the hands of regulators Regulation is consulting on these issues. We and we will walk along in their wake. I have said believe CER is best placed to deal with the tech- previously that there are more regulators here nical issues relating to facilitating micro-gener- than there were in Texas after the American Civil ation. The Green Paper on energy policy deals War. Lessons were learned about them then that with the higher level policy matters in respect of should stand us in good stead. renewables generally. The CER paper is in favour of further consideration of smart meters and a Mr. Broughan: The public are becoming detailed consultation paper on this will issue increasingly interested in this issue, as we have shortly. We are not against it in principle but the seen from inquiries about greener homes and the amendment is premature and, therefore, we do possibilities of micro-generation. In advising con- not accept it at this time. stituents on the Minister’s leaflets, we often find that major problems arise in trying to transport Mr. Eamon Ryan: Surely the tail is wagging the woodchips for boilers, particularly in urban areas. dog on this. The Government sets energy policy. I have received calls from constituents which sug- The Minister of State agrees, as the Minister said gest the system is not feasible. Much work needs publicly, that the Government believes this is a to be done on energy efficiency and small-scale step in the right direction. What he appears to be generation. According to his consultation docu- saying is that the Government is not concerned ment, the regulator, Mr. Reeves, appears to be about small scale generation, that it was not in waiting for smart meters. He seems to be saying the Green Paper — for shame — and that the that because households and businesses do not matter will be left to CER. As Deputy Broughan have smart metering, we cannot have a situation has indicated, CER’s position is remarkably cau- where people are paid for spills. tious, conservative and backward. Either the Nonetheless, it will be an exciting development Government is responsible for energy policy or it if households and businesses are paid for elec- is not. The main excuse the Government offered tricity they produce and which spills into the for the problems in recent years were that inter- system. In parts of the United Kingdom, Europe national prices were responsible and that while it and America, a wonderful situation is envisaged might have wished to do so something differently, whereby electricity meters will fly backwards. ultimately the Commission for Energy Regu- That would be a wonderful prospect for people, lation has the authority and the Government rather than having meters that relentlessly speed cannot give directions to the Commission for up whenever one turns on a switch or misses Energy Regulation. Given that it appears the efficiency measures, such as switching off Government agrees with the concept as outlined, machines at night. 579 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 580

[Mr. Broughan.] of our power. This is an utterly important and I support Deputy Eamon Ryan in this area, central principle. which is exciting. The public and the business sec- Even if the Minister of State wants to await tor are ahead of us in this regard, so we should the outcome of a consultation document from the go with them. Three years ago, I received a bitter CER, it is possible for us — as we discussed when complaint from a small business man in West- dealing with an earlier amendment — to allow for meath when he asked why we were waiting for a provision in the Bill and enact it when such a net metering. Here we are three and a half years consultation process is finished. If the Minister of later and, as with so many other things, it looks State agrees with the principle but has a problem like we will have to wait for the new Admini- with timing, it would be eminently feasible for the stration to do it. Government to accept this amendment, thus ensuring that we will not have to come back to Mr. Browne: The Government sets the high- the House on this issue. We know how difficult it level policy principles and the CER is dealing can be to get legislation through the House. with the detailed technical measures required to The House could accept this amendment with implement these policies. The consultation paper the caveat that it would require a ministerial on micro-generation has been published against a order to be enacted. In that way, we would be backdrop of technical advantages and increasing able to start progressing it immediately once the interest in this area, which is ongoing. For that Government came round to making the decision. reason we should wait until the consultation pro- This is not a small or marginal issue; it is funda- cess is over. We are not against the principle to mental to the type of energy we will have in which the three Deputies referred but we should future. I ask the Minister of State to consider the await the outcome of the current consultation possibility of making that provision subject to a process after which the required legislation ministerial order rather than immediate enact- should be implemented. ment. That would solve the Minister of State’s problem in terms of getting ahead of the game, Mr. Eamon Ryan: In future, the high-level while giving a clear indication from this House — policy energy principles will not just concern what as all parties seem to have done — that this is the is happening in the ESB, Bord na Mo´ na or Bord direction in which we want to go. Ga´is. They will concern what is happening in every home and office in the country. The crucial An Ceann Comhairle: Is the Deputy pressing principle is whether we go to a distributed system the amendment? using a multiple range of different suppliers for heat, electricity and transport fuels, or whether Mr. Eamon Ryan: Yes. we stick with the older way of doing things whereby large, single generators provide the bulk Amendment put.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 57; Nı´l, 65.

Ta´

Allen, Bernard. McGinley, Dinny. Boyle, Dan. McGrath, Finian. Breen, James. McGrath, Paul. Broughan, Thomas P. McHugh, Paddy. Bruton, Richard. McManus, Liz. Burton, Joan. Mitchell, Olivia. Connolly, Paudge. Morgan, Arthur. Costello, Joe. Murphy, Catherine. Crawford, Seymour. Murphy, Gerard. Crowe, Sea´n. Naughten, Denis. Cuffe, Ciara´n. Neville, Dan. Deasy, John. Noonan, Michael. Deenihan, Jimmy. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Durkan, Bernard J. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. English, Damien. O’Dowd, Fergus. Enright, Olwyn. O’Keeffe, Jim. Ferris, Martin. O’Sullivan, Jan. Gilmore, Eamon. Pattison, Seamus. Gormley, John. Perry, John. Gregory, Tony. Rabbitte, Pat. Hayes, Tom. Ryan, Eamon. Higgins, Joe. Ryan, Sea´n. Higgins, Michael D. Sargent, Trevor. Hogan, Phil. Sherlock, Joe. Lowry, Michael. Stagg, Emmet. Lynch, Kathleen. Stanton, David. McCormack, Pa´draic. Timmins, Billy. McEntee, Shane. Upton, Mary. 581 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 582

Nı´l

Ahern, Dermot. Kelly, Peter. Ahern, Michael. Killeen, Tony. Ardagh, Sea´n. Kirk, Seamus. Blaney, Niall. Kitt, Tom. Brady, Johnny. Lenihan, Brian. Brady, Martin. Martin, Michea´l. Brennan, Seamus. McDowell, Michael. Browne, John. McEllistrim, Thomas. Callanan, Joe. McGuinness, John. Callely, Ivor. Moloney, John. Carey, Pat. Moynihan, Donal. Carty, John. Moynihan, Michael. Collins, Michael. Mulcahy, Michael. Cregan, John. Nolan, M.J. Cullen, Martin. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Curran, John. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Connor, Charlie. Dempsey, Noel. O’Dea, Willie. Dennehy, John. O’Donnell, Liz. Devins, Jimmy. O’Donovan, Denis. Ellis, John. O’Flynn, Noel. Fahey, Frank. O’Keeffe, Batt. Finneran, Michael. O’Malley, Fiona. Fleming, Sea´n. O’Malley, Tim. Fox, Mildred. Power, Peter. Glennon, Jim. Sexton, Mae. Hanafin, Mary. Smith, Michael. Haughey, Sea´n. Treacy, Noel. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Wallace, Dan. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Wallace, Mary. Jacob, Joe. Walsh, Joe. Keaveney, Cecilia. Woods, Michael. Kelleher, Billy.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Boyle and Stagg; Nı´l, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher.

Amendment declared lost. ing the safety procedures for electricity instal- lations, were addressed. I cannot understand why An Ceann Comhairle: Amendments Nos. 14 we should restrict or impede in a bureaucratic or and 15 are related and may be discussed together other manner people’s development of their own by agreement. small-scale electricity off-grid supply. Amendment No. 15 may represent a more Mr. Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 14: serious issue for larger-scale producers because it In page 5, between lines 10 and 11, to insert is clear that among the many difficulties facing the following: particularly those involved in the development of wind farms one of the greatest difficulties relates “(8) Section 3 of the Statutory Instrument to grid connection. While slightly complex in its No. 60 of 2005, the European Communities wording, the amendment is intended to allow a (internal Market in Electricity) Regulations wind farm operator to contest with the distri- 2005 shall be amended to include the subsec- bution system operator the standards, costs, tion (k) “to nevertheless allow communities method and means of any grid connection to be who so elect to have only their own provided. For economic reasons we should supply.”.”. provide greater flexibility as to the nature, stan- Amendments Nos. 14 and 15 are similar in intent dard and extent of a grid connection available to to the previous amendment in that they seek to an operator of a new wind farm, who should be improve the possibility of development of renew- allowed to enter into negotiations for the con- able electricity supplies. Amendment No. 14 struction of an alternative connection to the net- seeks to give greater flexibility to people wishing work while meeting the safety and other system to develop their own electricity supply from wind, requirements that the grid operator would small-scale hydro, combined heat and power or undoubtedly be required to apply. biomass. An earlier amendment sought to intro- The need for such a provision was brought duce a similar provision in that we felt it was not home to me at the recent annual conference of necessary for the commission to regulate such the Irish Wind Energy Association attended by electricity production in the same manner as it most of the Deputies on this side of the House would in the case of a large-scale power plant and some Deputies from the other side. One provided the safety requirements, which would be presentation dealt with the question of whether a managed by the latter sections of the Bill cover- grid connection should be provided overground 583 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 584

[Mr. Eamon Ryan.] flexibility, I regret that the Government sees fit or underground. The grid operator representative to sit on its hands, decide to do nothing about at the meeting stated that while cost differences the issue and wait for some future opportunity to existed, if the grid operator, effectively the ESB, make the change. If this is not the appropriate was providing the network connection, in many place for an amendment to the powers of the cases it would be more expensive than if the wind CER, where can it take place? Does the Minister farm operator provided the connection. We of State believe it would be necessary to intro- should provide flexibility to allow an operator to duce legislation to allow for what is known as negotiate with the network provider to allow con- contestability in the distribution or transmission nection to proceed in the correct way. While both connection? When does the Government intend are technical amendments, one assists with small- to allow for such legislation? scale generators and the other is of significant importance to wind farm development. Mr. Fahey: While the Deputy’s proposal has some merit, further consideration would need to Minister of State at the Department of Justice, be given before providing for it in legislation. Equality and Law Reform (Mr. Fahey): Neither Unbundling of the DSO is required by July 2007 amendment is acceptable. The wording of amend- and legislation, most likely secondary legislation, ment No. 14 would not be consistent with the will be required to deal with a range of issues requirement under EU and Irish legislation that necessary for the legal unbundling of the DSO. all customers should be free to choose their sup- We would be prepared to give further consider- plier. On amendment No. 15, I am not necessarily ation to the Deputy’s proposal in this regard. against the proposal to extend contestability of connections to the distribution system level in Amendment put and declared lost. principle if it can deliver more efficiency and competition. However, further consideration Amendment No. 15 not moved. must be given to a legislative underpinning of this provision. In particular this wording may not be Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 16: consistent with EU and Irish legislation on terms In page 5, line 16, after “seas” to insert “as and conditions for third-party access to the elec- specified in the Schedule”. tricity grid. Those issues need to be carefully If this amendment were accepted, the text would considered. read: “’island of Ireland’ includes its islands and This section, dealing with the functions of the seas as specified in the Schedule”. I remember a CER regarding the all-island market, is not dispute in the House over a certain offshore necessarily the place to address these matters island and I therefore looked at the Schedule to legislatively. This issue will be factored into the determine whether it could be included in the ongoing work to transpose EU Directive wording. I believe it could and I would like to 2003/54/EC on the distribution system operator hear the Minister of State’s response. unbundling. Mr. Fahey: I am advised that “the island of Mr. Eamon Ryan: I understand the unbundling Ireland” is defined in section 3 in the context of of the distribution system must be accomplished and for the sole purpose of the regulation of an by July 2007. I hope this or a future Government all-island wholesale electricity market, as set out does not find itself required to make a regulatory in the Long Title of the Bill and as prescribed in change through legislation, which we have the subsection 3(6), and for no other purpose. This opportunity to make now. The Minister of State definition is drafted to ensure account is taken of appears to agree with the intent of amendment the islands within the Irish jurisdiction in No. 15, but has some issues with the wording or developing an all-island electricity market. As the the legal aspects of achieving that principle. It definition is provided solely for the purpose of would have been possible for the Minister to this section of the Bill, it could never be invoked introduce a similar amendment that met those in respect of other matters such as fisheries and technical legal requirements. My wording mineral exploration rights. Therefore, a more attempted to outline the principle. I do not detailed definition of “Irish seas” is not necessary understand why the Government would be in fav- for the purpose of this legislation. our of the principle while arguing it is contrary to existing legislation. It would not be impossible to Mr. Durkan: I fail to understand that. Perhaps surmount that problem through alternative legal I just do not have the right angle on it. I thought wording, possibly drafted by the Office of the my amendment presented a useful opportunity, Attorney General. particularly because it is considered useful to The Minister of State has acknowledged the aspire to having an all-island energy policy. Such problem with lack of flexibility, which may need a policy would bring about the co-operation of to be resolved in the unbundling of the distri- the two regulatory authorities in the North and bution system, regardless of the provisions we South and would bring recognition that it is better have regarding the transmission system operator. to have an all-island market than two separate While recognising the problem with the lack of ones. We may yet become part of an all-island 585 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 586 and part-European market, in which case it will There is no specific reference to “home heating” be of benefit to have accepted my amendment. or the heating of the structures of buildings and For example, energy resources off our shores such a reference should be included. could comprise a very contentious issue in the We had a debate this morning on whether this years to come. is a regulatory or an energy Bill. It could be very While there is no specific definition of our seas helpful if specific reference were made to “home in the legislation, somebody could ask in the heating” simply because the largest single saving future why such a definition was not included and that can be made in the use of energy, particularly state it would have been very useful. I remember imported oil, is in the area of home heating. a frantic group of people crawling onto the island Without a doubt, this also applies to gas. Ireland of Rockall half way out in the Atlantic some has some gas supplies including a resource that is years ago. Does the Ceann Comhairle remember expected to last 15 years. I hope we will ulti- that? Such an issue could become very conten- mately avail of it and that we will be able to turn tious and I therefore tabled my amendment. If on the tap. the Minister of State is absolutely certain it is not We should afford to “home heating” the recog- required or is superfluous, I will not press it. Per- nition it deserves. There is a plethora of areas of haps he will look into his heart and consider energy provision in addition to home heating, but accepting it. in no other area can greater efficiency, greater There have been more changes of Minister import substitution and a greater reduction in the since morning than changes of the guard and I cost to the consumer be achieved. The same have no doubt there will be more personality applies to heating in the commercial sector. The changes before the day is out. amendments under discussion therefore deserve recognition and I ask that the Minister of State Mr. Broughan: I believed the Minister of State, be sufficiently good, warm-hearted, energetic and Deputy Browne, had changed appearance — I conscious of conservation to take them on board. am stunned. Mr. Broughan: We are dealing with the role of Mr. Durkan: I actually believed that was the CER in developing an all-island market. Col- case. leagues mentioned that we are not really sure what will happen. Representatives of the An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputies are mov- Northern Ireland regulatory body were before ing away from the amendment before us. the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources approximately six months Mr. Durkan: We just threw it in for good ago and it was clear that the body regulates its measure. side of the Border. On 1 November next year I presume the two regulators will work hand in Mr. Fahey: I have no further response. hand. By definition, it seems one cannot have two regulators in a single market. It would be like Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. having two European Commissions and therefore we will need to discuss having a single regulator. An Ceann Comhairle: Amendment No. 17 in As my colleague stated, Commissioner Piebalgs the name of Deputy Durkan arises from Commit- was thinking of amalgamating the UK and Irish tee Stage proceedings. Amendments Nos. 18 and markets. 19 are related and they may all be discussed The amendments address a very important together. section. I commend the role the Government has taken thus far in developing this sector. It is a Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 17: concrete example of the Republic and Northern Ireland working together for the good of the In page 5, line 34, to delete “services” and peoples both North and South. I hope further substitute “services affecting other forms of interconnection will lead to a better future. home heating”. When representatives of the Commission for The legislation, as it stands, reads: Energy Regulation were before the joint commit- tee discussing this very point, the then com- ‘market in energy’ includes a market in missioner, who has since become a water com- respect of— missioner in the United Kingdom, said to me that (a) the generation, supply, transmission, the single market’s impact would be such that distribution and trading, including the export future prices would be less than they would be if or import, of electricity, including electricity there were no single market. This reminds me of generated from renewable sources, a comment by a former leader of Fine Gael, Pro- fessor Garret FitzGerald. When he became (b) the storage, supply, transmission, dis- Taoiseach, he had a famous mantra to the effect tribution and trading, including the export that the increase in the level of prices was falling. and import, of natural gas, The public had to get its head around the idea (c) energy efficiency services. that things would be much dearer but not as dear 587 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 588

[Mr. Broughan.] issues relating to the market, which we are dis- as they would have been in other circumstances. cussing in this amendment and this section, in a This is crazy to the ordinary householder. professional and thorough manner. The most In the context of the future amalgamation of interesting thing in the report, which was pro- the regulatory functions in the North and the duced by a hard-headed consultancy company, is Republic, such that there would be a unified all- that one fifth of the people suffer fuel poverty. I island regulator, one must not only consider am sure the Ceann Comhairle, with his medical energy efficiency, storage, generation, security of background, will agree that is an extraordinary supply and sustainability but also measures to statistic. One fifth of the people of this country alleviate fuel and energy poverty. In other words, are suffering some degree of fuel poverty. This is the regulator should be concerned about the a key issue. impact it is having on the households of this How can Mr. Reeves and Mr. Tutty tell us that island. It should be provided for legislatively that there will be an increase of 34%? It seems, as Mr. it should be part of the regulator’s duties. David Begg and my party leader, Deputy During Question Time last Thursday, I sug- Rabbitte, said last week, that prices are being gested to the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, greatly increased in the expectation of bringing that he should either accept my amendment to about competition at some future time. The prob- this section of the Bill or introduce further legis- lem, as we know from a study conducted by the lation to make it essential that a consumer panel department of social studies and sociology in be established within the Commission for Energy UCD, is that some people will never enjoy those Regulation. I am in favour of the establishment lower prices because they will not be around. One of a panel of people, including experts and econ- of the reasons they will not be around is that they omists, who represent householders and busi- will not survive our cold winters. nesses. I refer in particular to small businesses, The Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, will agree which are being crucified, as we know, by the that the last two winters were among the hardest increases in electricity prices. we can remember. Perhaps they were the two col- One of the most horrible things to have hap- dest winters of our lifetimes. Some people could pened to people in this country in recent years not afford to turn on the gas central heating or to happened on 1 October last, which was the day get an extra fill of oil. I am sure the Minister of we trooped over to Government Buildings to be State met such people when he was travelling presented with the Green Paper on energy by the around his constituency of Galway West. I have Taoiseach. The media were interested to know often walked into the freezing kitchens of houses how many Ministers would turn up to sit beside owned by older people who are afraid to turn on him on the day that was in it because it was the their heating, which is an incredible commentary same day the Minister allowed the Commission on our situation towards the end of 2006, after for Energy Regulation to increase gas prices by ten years of amazing economic growth. 34%. We were going in to talk about a bright I am sure the Minister of State privately agrees energy future, but we were hit with a whammy of with me that we should have a requisition on the a gas increase of 34% on every household. One Commission for Energy Regulation to consider of the most interesting aspects of the events of 1 the alleviation of fuel poverty as a key element October was that the Minister, Deputy Noel of its work. It should not be something that it can Dempsey, not only produced the Green Paper choose to consider. I do not have the com- but also slipped out the Deloitte & Touche mission’s consultation and decision documents on report. the increases of 34% in gas prices and 20% in electricity prices with me, but perhaps I should Mr. Durkan: That is right. bring them in. Mr. Reeves and his colleagues said they approved the increase in gas prices because Mr. Broughan: He had been in possession of the increase in the price of imported gas over the the report for almost a year but had refused to previous two seasons meant that Bord Ga´is was publish it despite our constant and repeated unable to get the return it needed. If one exam- demands. He suddenly slipped it out on 1 ines the company’s accounts for 2005, one will see October last. that the company made a profit of over \100 mil- lion. It is refurbishing the network throughout the Mr. Durkan: He threw it into the mix. country. Many places on the north side of Dublin are being dug up by Bord Ga´is as it installs its Mr. Broughan: I have to say it was Fianna Fa´il upgraded future system. politics operating at its most remarkable. The ESB, similarly, passed on a huge dividend of \77 million to the Government last year, from Mr. Durkan: In its rawest form. profits of \270 million. It is a remarkable, well- led, dynamic and forward-looking company. An Mr. Broughan: The Minister tried to cover all additional increase of 20% in electricity prices the bad news with his shining Green Paper. will be faced by the public on 1 January next. In The Deloitte & Touche report contains a great a few weeks, the Minister for Finance, Deputy deal of analysis of the ESB. It examines various Cowen, will deliver his Budget Statement from 589 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 590 where the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, is cur- to accept amendment No. 18. He should include rently sitting. I hope he will announce significant this measure in the Bill to demonstrate that this increases in social welfare benefits, the amount of House and the Government are serious about electricity units and a range of social protections. combatting energy poverty, rather than crucifying The Government certainly has the money to the poorest people in society, such as those on make such increases. A few weeks later, however, the lowest incomes, in 2007. The Government will on 1 January, just as benefits such as the State reap a tough reward for its approach when elec- pension start to enter people’s bank accounts and tion day comes. post office accounts, people will find they have to pay much more for their energy. This is a criti- Mr. Fahey: It is not that I do not have a good cal issue. heart. This section simply delineates the functions During the past five years of this Admini- of the Commission for Energy Regulation in the stration, there have been increases of 100% in the development of the single electricity market. price of gas and over 60% in the price of elec- Further and more detailed provisions will be tricity. We have had to deal with amazingly high included in the all-island energy market Bill, prices to establish a future in which we will sup- which is being drafted in co-operation with our posedly have much lower prices. Like many social colleagues in Northern Ireland. We hope the Bill commentators, I do not understand the logic that will be introduced in the House shortly. The pro- is operating at present. The deliberate decision to posed amendments are simply not appropriate to keep energy prices low was a key factor in the this section of the current Bill as they do not establishment of the Celtic tiger economy we relate specifically to the development of an all- have enjoyed, which has brought most people to island market for the trading of electricity. The a level of affluence. We have not seen the amendments are unnecessarily restrictive in so far benefits of the EU requirements we have had to as they seek to confine energy efficiency services meet. to forms of home heating. As Deputy Broughan I have one of the Commission for Energy indicated, such measures are instruments of social Regulation consultation documents with me, but policy. While they may be applied to a market I do not have the key decision document with me. situation, they are not part of the definition of the The documents should have included a lengthy energy market. The term “as may, from time to commentary on the measures which could have time, be determined by the Minister” is superflu- been taken to alleviate poverty, which would ous and the term used at section 14(1)(e)isall- have resulted in a much lower increase in gas embracing. prices — perhaps in the single digits — for this While I take the point made by the Deputies, season. As my colleague said, the price of energy the energy service sector is wider than home heat- supplies, including gas, decreased during a ing and extends to industry and commercial remarkable period over the last couple of endeavours. It includes the pro- months. As the Minister of State knows, there 5 o’clock visions of the Energy Services were a number of days when the Norwegian pipe- Directive and the energy efficiency line was spewing out gas that was free on the service providers. For this reason I cannot accept London market. these amendments.

Mr. Durkan: We could have had free gas. Mr. Durkan: The Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform Mr. Broughan: If we had the resources, in the is not being very accommodating. I thought he form of storage capacity, we could have had free would make sweeping changes and recognise the gas for half of next year. We have an opportunity good ideas proposed. The three amendments in to provide for measures which will require the question all relate to a specific part of what we Commission for Energy Regulation to consider feel should be covered in this new single market. this issue as the all-island market develops. The purpose of the words “as may, from time People sometimes say that poverty measures to time, be determined by the Minister” in should only be discussed in terms of the budget amendment No. 19, as mentioned by the Minister — they should be examined in terms of how one of State at the Department of Justice, Equality can help pensioners, people on low incomes and and Law Reform, is to indicate who is in control. great social organisations like the Society of St. Will we have to wait, as in recent weeks, for a Vincent de Paul which are trying to alleviate pov- decision from the regulator? He had the flu and erty. This issue is central to the point I am we had to wait until it had passed for a decision making. to be made. Policy should always be determined People would not be so hard-pressed if fuel by the Minister, regardless of what anyone else prices were lower. I believe the prices this year says, including the European transposition and so should have been lower. The members of the on. We cannot sit easily with a situation whereby Joint Committee on Communications, Marine regulation takes precedence over policy. Policy is and Natural Resources argued to Mr. Reeves a required within this State. couple of weeks ago that lower prices could be There is a vast difference between how energy sustained. Therefore, I urge the Minister of State supply, demand and transmission is conducted 591 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 592

[Mr. Durkan.] coming winter. This poverty will be due to the here and in the rest of Europe. This is, effectively, Government’s decision to allow CER, under cur- the only island involved as Britain has a tunnel rent legislation, to deliver a double whammy con- to the mainland that is somewhat better than the sisting of a 34% increase in gas prices and a 20% tunnel we have here. I understand that services increase in electricity prices in addition to the are transmissible via the tunnel. increases of 100% that have been seen in the life- It is easier to regulate in mainland Europe as time of this Government. Greater intervention is it concerns a far larger area and many systems of required by the Government in relation to CER’s transmission are already in place. Regulators may powers. The Electricity Regulation Act 1999 was represent a better method for approaching this the major Act relating to market regulation since issue because there are many different authorities the Electricity Supply Act 1927, which established that can be brought together. Ireland’s position is the Electricity Supply Board. The Bill before us different and the regulatory system, as transposed gives us an opportunity to put the needs of con- into Irish law, is flawed and will leave us vulner- sumers, families and small businesses at the able. So far we have not had a negative experi- centre of CER’s thinking, rather than existing as ence but if there was a sharp cold snap and there an afterthought as is the case in the Electricity were difficulties with supply, regulation, trans- Regulation Act 1999. mission and so on, would we sit by and leave I urge the Minister of State at the Department everything to the regulator until he or she of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to accept decided the problem could be resolved? At this amendment No. 18 and I also support amend- point there must be recourse to Government ment No. 17. We need a mechanism to make policy. After all, who are the elected representa- CER more responsive to vulnerable consumers. tives and who will be accountable? Suppose there was an outage of the nature that Mr. Fahey: Government policy is clearly set out affected the telecom industry in recent weeks. in the Green Paper on energy policy. The There is no use saying it could not happen; development of further physical interconnection Deputy Broughan has already pointed out that it and the integration of our energy market with our can happen. There is a dramatic difference neighbours’ through the development of the Sin- between energy requirements in cold weather gle European Market, SEM, and regional energy and otherwise. Given these circumstances it is markets is a cornerstone of Government policy. time to introduce to this Bill an indication from The amendments proposed by the Deputy do not the Minister of State that we intend to maintain fit with the section dealing with the SEM. responsibility for policy, rather than divest our- Legislation dealing with vulnerable customers selves of all control. has already been introduced and measures to deal For all of the regulation on the Continent there with fuel poverty are set out in the energy policy were many power outages around Europe last Green Paper. The vulnerable customers’ payment summer, in Spain, Italy and elsewhere. If it can and assistance scheme sees the ESB and Bord happen there it can happen as easily here, and Ga´is help vulnerable customers. Those facing fin- ours is a far colder climate. ancial hardship should not allow their accounts fall into arrears but should contact their service Mr. Broughan: I have reviewed the Electricity provider as soon as possible to agree a payment Regulation Act 1999 which established the Com- plan. Service will not be withdrawn where there mission for Energy Regulation, CER. The CER’s is an agreed payment plan in place and payments functions were to publish, pursuant to a policy are kept up to date in accordance with the direction or directions of the Minister proposals agreed plan. for a system of contracts and other arrangements, Further to what Deputy Broughan has said, to engage in a public consultation process, to there is scope for lessening home heating costs advise the Minister on the impact of electricity through the warmer home scheme, which is part generation in relation to sustainability, and inter- of Sustainable Energy Ireland’s low cost income national agreements and so on. There are many housing programme. The purpose of this scheme vague, general functions but nothing that covers is to improve the energy efficiency and comfort the impact of CER’s decision on vulnerable con- conditions of homes occupied by low income sumers. There is a reference to the commission householders. The scheme provides funding for having regard to the needs of various elements community based organisations for the instal- and this relates particularly to producers, gener- lation of energy efficiency measures, such as attic ators, licence holders and so on. In the 1999 Act, insulation, draft proofing, hot water cylinder under the commission’s functions, it is stated it installation and wall cavity insulation, in homes must take account of the protection of the envir- in their respective localities. The scheme is onment, the efficient use of electricity, the needs intended to benefit those most in need and the of rural customers, the disadvantaged and the eligibility criteria vary from region to region elderly. However, the CER has never advanced a depending on the target group of the community mechanism whereby it would do this. organisation in question. I am studying developments that would, from We all agree with the Deputy’s comments that a market point of view, address the almost certain there is a significant fuel burden on people, fuel and energy poverty we will see in the forth- particularly low income families, because of the 593 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 594 increases in energy costs. However, this is a reason for the existence of my party and we are worldwide phenomenon and one for which surely determined to bring this forward into the area of the Deputy cannot blame the Government. energy. As I told the wind energy delegation that As regards the query on the gas supplier of last met the joint committee, while we welcome resort, the shipper of last resort is provided for renewable and sustainable energies we will not later in this Bill. Bord Ga´is E´ ireann has been allow the poorest people in society to carry the appointed to fulfil this role should there be a fail- can for it. This is not the way it can be, or will ure in any other energy provider. be, done. If we want a proper sustainable energy programme, it must be spread fairly among all Mr. Broughan: Social measures to alleviate sections of society. The only way to do this is by energy and fuel poverty are welcome. I will be building in market mechanisms and putting in looking to the Minister for Finance, Deputy place market supervision, such as the Com- Cowen, to announce a dramatic panel of pro- mission on Energy Regulation. posals on the first Wednesday in December. However, the operation of this in practice is Mr. Durkan: The Minister of State has rejected rather different and I will give the Minister of the proposal contained in amendment No. 19 State an example. The Minister of State men- which sought to introduce an element of minis- tioned some of the measures Bord Ga´is E´ ireann terial control. Section 3(6) lists the various areas will take and how kind it will be to customers. In in which the bodies will be incorporated, such as light of the cut-offs some consumers experienced energy efficiency services, energy research and and the way in which some estates were dealt development and other sustainable energy activi- with during the refurbishment programme on the ties. These other sustainable activities are not north side of Dublin recently, BGE and its con- defined. This is a weakness and it is the reason tractors were anything but responsive. for tabling the amendment. It seeks to give the The Health Service Executive has a prog- Minister control and the means to take action. Of ramme of home insulation operating on the north course, Ministers have become shy of becoming side of Dublin. Funding was provided for this in involved in such matters because it might mean last year’s budget to an organisation called that they would be held responsible. It would be Eastern Community Works. It is a company of really awful if they were expected to take action the old northern area health board and its fund- in the face of a catastrophic fuel shortage. ing for insulating homes for seniors and vulner- Amendment No. 19 would considerably able families ran out at the end of April. Such strengthen the Bill. Failing to ensure that such was the demand last winter that its funding lasted power is available to the Minister is a mistake. only four months. Many families who sought The phrase “as may, from time to time, be deter- resources last winter will face into this winter mined by the Minister” is one that has been regu- without the work having been carried out — their larly used in Bills that come before the House, houses are still cold. and I am sure it will be used in the future too. The Government did not provide the alleviat- The Minister of State has not accepted this ing moneys to carry out this work. When I tried amendment because he does not want direct, dic- to raise this in the House, the Minister for Health tate, control, or advice on policy. The longer this and Children, Deputy Harney, did not want to continues the worse matters will become. I ask know about it. We now effectively have a regu- the Minister of State to reconsider. lator for health, namely, the Health Service Executive and Professor Brendan Drumm. Pro- Mr. Fahey: The Minister dictates policy and the fessor Drumm is now effectively the Minister for regulator implements it. I am sure this will con- Health and Children and he is assisted by Mr. tinue to happen if and when the Deputy’s party Lennon, who sends us nice press releases on the ever gets into Government. health service almost daily. I cannot raise this issue with anyone. When I approached the HSE, Mr. Durkan: It did not happen last week. it said that it was up to Eastern Community Works to spend the money in a different way. Mr. Fahey: I will respond to the points Deputy Although the money ran out in April, the HSE Broughan has raised, even though they are not expected the organisation to spread the money relevant to this Bill. While they are fully under- over 12 months. Sufficient resources have not stood, they are best dealt with in the context of been made available and that is why I am seeking further policy developments. Consultations in market-based solutions. I also want the regulator respect of the energy Green Paper are ongoing to take account of the 20% of the public that lives and seek to determine what further work should in fuel poverty. be done to alleviate fuel poverty. Serious con- The Minister of State referred to the Green sideration will be given to whatever proposals Paper a number of times. It contains just one emerge. We should stick to the subject matter of page on fuel poverty; there are six lines in the the Bill in the meantime. main part of the document and three quarters of a page elsewhere. The alleviation of poverty for Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. low income families has been one of the tenets of my party throughout its history. It is a central Mr. Broughan: I move amendment No. 18: 595 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 596

[Mr. Broughan.] Amendment put. In page 5, between lines 34 and 35, to insert the following: “(d) measures to alleviate fuel and energy poverty,”.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 57; Nı´l, 62.

Ta´

Allen, Bernard. McHugh, Paddy. Boyle, Dan. Mitchell, Olivia. Breen, James. Morgan, Arthur. Broughan, Thomas P. Murphy, Catherine. Bruton, Richard. Murphy, Gerard. Burton, Joan. Naughten, Denis. Connolly, Paudge. Neville, Dan. Costello, Joe. Noonan, Michael. Crawford, Seymour. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Crowe, Sea´n. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Cuffe, Ciara´n. O’Dowd, Fergus. Deasy, John. O’Sullivan, Jan. Durkan, Bernard J. Pattison, Seamus. English, Damien. Penrose, Willie. Enright, Olwyn. Perry, John. Ferris, Martin. Quinn, Ruairı´. Gilmore, Eamon. Rabbitte, Pat. Gormley, John. Ring, Michael. Gregory, Tony. Ryan, Eamon. Hayes, Tom. Ryan, Sea´n. Higgins, Joe. Sargent, Trevor. Higgins, Michael D. Sherlock, Joe. Hogan, Phil Stagg, Emmet. Kenny, Enda. Stanton, David. Lynch, Kathleen. Timmins, Billy. McEntee, Shane. Twomey, Liam. McGinley, Dinny. Upton, Mary. McGrath, Finian. Wall, Jack. McGrath, Paul.

Nı´l

Ahern, Dermot. Kelly, Peter. Ahern, Michael. Killeen, Tony. Andrews, Barry. Kirk, Seamus. Ardagh, Sea´n. Kitt, Tom. Blaney, Niall. Lenihan, Brian. Brady, Johnny. Lenihan, Conor. Brady, Martin. McEllistrim, Thomas. Brennan, Seamus. McGuinness, John. Callanan, Joe. Martin, Michea´l. Callely, Ivor. Moloney, John. Carey, Pat. Moynihan, Donal. Carty, John. Moynihan, Michael. Collins, Michael. Mulcahy, Michael. Cregan, John. Nolan, M. J. Cullen, Martin. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Curran, John. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Connor, Charlie. Dennehy, John. O’Dea, Willie. Devins, Jimmy. O’Donnell, Liz. Ellis, John. O’Donovan, Denis. Fahey, Frank. O’Flynn, Noel. Finneran, Michael. O’Malley, Fiona. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. O’Malley, Tim. Fleming, Sea´n. Power, Peter. Fox, Mildred. Sexton, Mae. Hanafin, Mary. Smith, Michael. Haughey, Sea´n. Treacy, Noel. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Wallace, Dan. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Wallace, Mary. Jacob, Joe. Walsh, Joe. Kelleher, Billy. Woods, Michael.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Stagg and Neville; Nı´l, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher. 597 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 598

Amendment declared lost. a fine rather than an expulsion is a more appro- priate course of action. Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 19: Amendment No. 26 provides that an appeal In page 5, line 36, after “activities” to insert arising from a commission decision to impose the following: sanctions on a particular contractor must be sub- mitted within 14 days as opposed to 28 days. “as may, from time to time, be determined Amendments Nos. 30 and 32 are technical in nat- by the Minister”. ure and provide that in section 9D(10), the legis- lation should refer back to the criteria published Amendment put and declared lost. by the commission under subsection (5). These are not major amendments but they will improve An Ceann Comhairle: Amendments Nos. 20, the legislation. 21, 25, 27, 83 to 86, inclusive, 88, 91 and 94 are related and may be discussed together. Mr. Durkan: Amendment No. 23 in my name gives the Commission for Energy Regulation a Mr. Fahey: I move amendment No. 20: back-handed reprieve by proposing to insert the words, “, or as required”, after the words, “The In page 6, line 46, to delete “customers,” and Commission may review or amend the criteria as substitute “customers.”. often as it considers necessary”, in section These amendments clear up typographical and 9(D)(5). The presumption is that the commission printing errors which occurred in the text of the is all-powerful and that its role is to review as Bill as a consequence of it being amended on often as it considers it necessary. I do not see Committee Stage. Report Stage is the appro- what massive foresight the commission has or is priate vehicle for tidying up these unavoidable likely to have. Different situations may emerge errors, thus ensuring the text of the Bill is not which would require the Minister or the public to open to challenge as regards the minutiae of its state that some change in the criteria is required. contents. It could well be in the operation of the criteria that the change is necessary or required. The Amendment agreed to. commission might not see it as necessary but it could well be required. The two do not necess- Mr. Fahey: I move amendment No. 21: arily converge, as we know from previous dis- cussions. In page 7, line 4, to delete “section,” and sub- Acceptance of the amendment would enhance stitute “section.”. the Bill and would be an indication of the Mini- ster’s anxiety to accommodate the House. Inci- Amendment agreed to. dentally, this amendment is not unique. Similar amendments have been incorporated previously An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendments in many legislative measures in the House. Nos. 22 to 24, inclusive, and 30 to 32, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together. Mr. Fahey: With regard to amendment No. 22, the use of the term “or endorse” might suggest Mr. Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 22: that responsibility for the criteria document and the important matters it deals with would be In page 7, line 24, after “publish” to insert removed, at least in part, from the CER. It must “or endorse”. be clear that the CER is fully responsible for the The purpose of my amendments in this group is contents rather than simply endorsing them. With to improve and refine the proposal to establish a regard to amendment No. 23, the current text of system of examining and monitoring the works the subsection will ensure that the criteria are carried out by electrical contractors. While small updated as often as required, and it is clearly for and technical in nature, the amendments are the CER to determine when this is necessary. also important. In response to amendment No. 24, while The purpose of amendment No. 22 is to amend allowing for fines and other sanctions is accept- the existing provision under which the Com- able in principle, this is a matter best left to the mission for Energy Regulation will publish discretion of the designating body. The criteria on standards for designated electrical Parliamentary Counsel has indicated that there is works by adding a further provision that, instead a move away from introducing statutory fines of publishing new criteria on standards, the com- other than those imposed by the courts. There is mission may endorse criteria already established a wide range of administrative sanctions which by industry membership bodies. may be implemented by a designated body which The purpose of amendment No. 24 is to do not require statutory underpinning. provide that the commission may fine electrical Turning to amendment No. 30, the matters set contractors rather than having to use the sole out in subsection (10)(a) are not appropriate sanction of revoking a contractor’s membership matters to include in the criteria document. These of a designated body. Occasions may arise when relate to how the individual designated bodies 599 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 600

[Mr. Fahey.] Mr. Fahey: There is a wide range of administra- charge certain fees to its members and may differ tive sanctions which may be implemented by the from body to body while the matters set out in designating body which do not require statutory the criteria document should be uniformly accept- underpinning. There is a difference between able to all bodies. Amendment No. 31 is not allowing for the body to charge a fine to its required as it is clearly the responsibility of the members and the court enforced fines provided CER to determine when the safety requirements for in this Bill. The fines in the Bill are for serious are required to be updated. This is already cap- safety breaches. There is also the ability to tured in the current text which allows for the impose administrative sanctions which does not CER to update the safety requirements from time need legislation. to time. With regard to Deputy Durkan’s question, Amendment No. 32 is also not required as sub- clearly the regulator would not have approved section (5) already states that the criteria docu- the increases if they were not necessary. Energy ment will include the safety standards to be prices have fallen but the regulator must have achieved and maintained by electrical con- regard to the overall situation. I am satisfied that tractors. the increases that were made are necessary.

Mr. Durkan: The question at issue in amend- Mr. Durkan: The Minister is a brave man. ments Nos. 23 and 31 is whether the regulator is the ultimate authority is determining when some- Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. thing is required, that is, whether it is necessary according to his or her judgment or could other- Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 23: wise be required. Does the Minister think, for In page 8, line 34, after “necessary” to insert example, that the increases in gas and electricity “, or as required”. prices which were approved recently were neces- sary and, if so, for what purpose? What was Amendment put and declared lost. achieved? They were not required. That is the difference in interpretation of the two words. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendment No. The word “required” should be included in the 82a is cognate to amendment No. 23a. Amend- legislation now. If it is not done now, it will have ments Nos. 23a and 82a may be discussed to be done later. A situation will arise in which a together. Minister will have to declare that the regulator is totally independent and that he can no longer Mr. Fahey: I move amendment No. 23a: influence him or her. The Minister will have no role or function but will be liable to be called to In page 8, lines 39 and 40, to delete “(in this account publicly for some matter, and if he or she section referred to as a registered electrical does not give a satisfactory response, they will contractor)” and substitute the following: have a serious problem on their hands. That is “(in this section referred to as a ‘registered how it will affect the Minister. Like the decisions electrical contractor’)”. that were taken in the last couple of weeks, decisions can be taken under this section relating to the criteria that will be laid down. There is a Amendment agreed to. similarity. The simple question is whether they Amendment No. 24 not moved. are necessary or required. It is interesting. Mr. Fahey: I move amendment No. 25: Mr. Eamon Ryan: I commend the Minister’s ability on this legislation, which is highly complex In page 9, line 41, to delete “body,” and sub- and not within the Minister’s remit. I wish to refer stitute “body.”. to amendment No. 24 which deals with the issuing of fines. The Minister said it is against parliamen- Amendment agreed to. tary practice to legislate for fining. However, this section designates some of the powers or modus Amendment No. 26 not moved. operandi of designated bodies, and of the com- mission in regard to the management of the desig- Mr. Fahey: I move amendment No. 27: nated bodies. Why would it not be appropriate to back up existing practice, that is, a system which In page 10, line 7, to delete “body,” and sub- has fines, with a regulatory practice which also stitute “body.”. provides for fines? Solely having recourse to expelling somebody from a body is possibly too Amendment agreed to. blunt an instrument. It is more appropriate and possibly equally effective to have a system for An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendments fines. Why would that not make sense in this Nos. 28 and 29 are related and may be discussed case? together by agreement. 601 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 602

Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 28: Amendments Nos. 29 to 32, inclusive, not moved. In page 10, line 13, after “contractor” to insert “and individual”. Mr. Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 33: This amendment proposes the inclusion of the In page 11, between lines 26 and 27, to insert term “and individual” after “contractor” in the the following: new section 4(8)(b). I am of the view that accept- ance of the amendment would be beneficial. “(13A) For the purposes of this subsection Amendment No. 29 is similar and proposes the certain categories of electrical works may be inclusion of the term “, and the particular circum- regarded as exempt from the requirement stances involved” in the new section 4(8)(b). Var- for inspection and certification under subsec- ious circumstances may arise in respect of which tion (13) as may be defined by the Com- action might be required. Without entering into mission on the basis that such works are not too much detail, it might be no harm if the Mini- likely to pose any threat to public safety.”. ster of State indicated his thoughts on these This amendment makes the simple point that it amendments. may make sense for the commission to designate certain categories of electrical works as exempt Mr. Fahey: Amendment No. 28 is not appro- from the requirement for inspection and certifi- priate because the appeal relates to the decision cation on the basis that there are certain small to suspend or revoke a registered electrical con- electrical contracting jobs that are relatively safe tractor. The relevant registered electrical contrac- and of a small scale and do not fall into the same tor must, therefore, be informed of the decision, category as jobs that require to be safely checked. not another individual. We should incorporate in the legislation a flexi- Amendment No. 29 is not necessary because bility to describe or outline such minor works in the decision of the CER in respect of an individ- respect of which it would not be necessary to ual decision of a designated body would clearly impose the requirements relating to more take into consideration the particular circum- serious jobs. stances involved. For those reasons, I cannot accept the amendments. Mr. Broughan: We engaged in a lengthy dis- cussion on Committee Stage regarding specified Mr. Durkan: The Minister of State has decided and designated works. A number of Members not to accept the amendments. The Bill has tabled amendments, some of which have been changed dramatically since its original publi- subsumed into the Bill. I am obliged to disagree cation. Opposition Members, in all their glory, with Deputy Eamon Ryan in respect of this have done their best to amend the Bill as it was matter because the fundamental impetus behind presented to them. We have a number of options the section is to create, at the highest levels, a open to us at this stage. We can vote on every safe environment in which electrical and gas amendment from here on if we so wish. We have works may be carried out. On Committee Stage, tried to accommodate the Minister of State and we debated, in great detail with the Minister, the Department by not pressing amendments, Deputy Noel Dempsey, the types of works which except in certain selective circumstances. Perhaps are specified or designated that could be now is as good a time as any to discover whether exempted. Eventually, the Minister accepted the Minister of State intends to take on board some of the amendments tabled by Opposition any of the concerns expressed in the amendments Members. tabled by Opposition Members, particularly in It is difficult to understand how a precise view of the way the Bill has been introduced and definition might be arrived at in respect of this recommitted and in light of the fact that we are matter. I do not know whether it would be good being obliged to deal with entirely new sections practice to proceed in the way suggested by that only emerged after we submitted our Deputy Eamon Ryan. Even when one considers amendments. the most basic works in respect of properly main- Mr. Fahey: I have no further comment to taining a house, it is obvious that huge safety make. issues arise. The basic tenor of the section is the right way to proceed. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is the amendment The Oireachtas committee of which I am a being pressed? member received a huge number of presentations in the lead-up to Committee Stage of the Bill, one Mr. Durkan: I am awaiting a response from the of which was submitted by the Register of Electri- Minister of State. cal Contractors of Ireland, RECI, which was try- ing to discover the kinds of works that would be Mr. Fahey: I have no further comment to included under the Bill. I would prefer the make. The first amendment is not appropriate method used in the Bill rather than adopting a and the second is not necessary. system of exempting certain works. On Commit- tee Stage, we discussed the area where the work Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. of electricians and plumbers overlap. I refer, for 603 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 604

[Mr. Broughan.] though, as Deputy Broughan stated, this matter example, to the installation of a shower. Is the was examined in detail on Committee Stage, latter a plumbing job or should it be carried out there is need for further clarity. The proposal in by an electrician? this amendment is to provide further clarity by explicitly setting out in a new subsection (15) that Mr. Durkan: That is a good question. where a registered electrical contractor carries out designated electrical works, the contractor Mr. Broughan: Some plumbers carry out the would then have to issue a completion certificate. electrical works relating to the installation of That ties in with section 9E(1) by setting out what showers. I presume that the latter would be dealt designated electrical works are, which makes with under the new subsection contained in sense. Deputy Eamon Ryan’s amendment. It would be better if works were clearly designated and if Mr. Fahey: Designated works form a particular there were no exemptions. I accept that there are subset of specified works which, following the grey areas and that handymen who advertise in necessary grandfathering period for the establish- the local press carry out works such as those to ment of the designated bodies, war- which I refer. These individuals should be 6 o’clock rant special consideration. There- required to do so to the highest standards because fore, they will be subject to that is the reason the section and that relating to completion certificates when necessary. Desig- gas works were brought forward. nated works will, by their nature, be the electrical works to which the most stringent safety impli- Mr. Fahey: This amendment is not acceptable. cations are attached. They can only be carried out While the underlying reasoning behind it is by a registered electrical contractor and the pro- understandable, the amendment is, for all intents posed section 9E of the 1999 Act contains strict and purposes, unnecessary. The new section penalty provision to underpin this even further. 9D(27), which is inserted into the 1999 Act by As a result, this amendment is not accepted. section 4 of the Bill, provides that the CER should specify which works are to be the specified Mr. Eamon Ryan: I accept that section 9E sets works for the purpose of the Act. Subsection (18) out penalties but I do not understand why we do of the same section provides that the commission not need clarification of the need for designated shall specify the form of completion certificate to works and such a certificate in the new subsection be used for particular types of electrical works. (15) that I wish to introduce. I do not see the The CER will take into account any and all safety connection between section 9E and the earlier issues when implementing its new powers under subsection that sets out the requirements of elec- these subsections and will ensure, in consultation trical contractors on specified works and desig- with RECI or any other such body, that any nated works. I do not see why we should not set requirements relating to inspection or certifi- out the requirements in that section for desig- cation will be restricted to the activities for which nated works as well as specified works if they are they are appropriate. I will leave it to the Oppo- differentiated by the scale of work involved. sition to decide on the issue of plumbers and elec- tricians. Mr. Broughan: Deputy Ryan makes a valid point. We seem to have covered specified works Mr. Durkan: We might take that responsibility under subsection (13). Deputy Ryan’s amend- more seriously than the Minister of State is taking ment is complementary and covers all the it at present. requirements. In that context, it is a reasonable amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Mr. Fahey: If designated works are carried out Mr. Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 34: by someone who is not a registered contractor, In page 11, between lines 35 and 36, to insert that person will commit an offence and incur a the following: fine. The specified works can be carried out by somebody who is not qualified, but the work must “(15) When a registered electrical contrac- then be certified by a qualified person. tor carries out electrical works, which by reason of regulations made under section Mr. Eamon Ryan: Section 9D(13) states: 9E(1) are deemed to be designated electrical “Where a registered electrical contractor carries works, the registered electrical contractor out electrical works, which by reason of a deter- concerned shall issue a completion certificate mination by the Commission under subsection to the person who requested the works to be (27) are specified works, the registered electrical carried out.”. contractor concerned shall issue a completion This is a complex area and one may become certificate to the person who requested the works involved in legal wrangles if works go wrong. to be carried out.” I accept the Minister’s point That is why it is important to identify what is a that if a non-registered contractor carries out des- designated and what is a specified work. Even ignated works, that is an offence. However, if we 605 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 606 specify the regulations on how a registered elec- some understanding of this. Deputy Ryan is just trical contractor operates when he is carrying out a bit confused. a specified work, why are we not setting out what a registered electrical contractor must do when Acting Chairman: Is Deputy Ryan pressing he is carrying out a designated work? the amendment?

Mr. Fahey: A designated work must be carried Mr. Eamon Ryan: Given the comments of the out by a registered contractor. It is an offence if Minister of State, I have little choice but to press it is carried out by a person who is not a regis- the amendment. We are on Report Stage of the tered contractor. Bill and it is very unfortunate that the Minister of State cannot explain an important issue that Acting Chairman (Deputy O’Sullivan): The may cause legal difficulties. It is also unfortunate Deputy has already spoken so this must be his that the senior Minister is not here to provide concluding remark. the answer.

Mr. Eamon Ryan: The intent of subsection (13) Amendment put and declared lost. is that when a registered electrical contractor car- ries out specified works, he or she must issue a Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 35 and 36 completion certificate to the person who are related and may be discussed together. requested the works to be carried out. Where is the compulsion on a registered electrical contrac- Mr. Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 35: tor to issue a completion certificate to someone In page 11, line 37, to delete “shall arrange” who requests a designated work to be carried and substitute “shall as soon as practicable, out? arrange”. Mr. Fahey: Designated works, because of their This is a much less contestable amendment and I nature, must be specified works and, therefore, hope the Minister of State, given his knowledge they require a completion certificate. Specified of the building industry, will see the sense in it. works can be carried out by somebody who is not We should arrange things as soon as is practi- qualified but they then must be certified by a cable, as is suggested in my amendment. qualified person. There is a distinction. Mr. Fahey: The current wording addresses the Mr. Eamon Ryan: I must answer this because proposals and the amendments are, therefore, it is highly technical. superfluous.

Acting Chairman: I will allow the Deputy to Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. come back one more time only. Acting Chairman: Is amendment No. 36 being Mr. Eamon Ryan: Thank you. The Minister of pressed? State said that the designated works are specified works. The difficulty is in the difference between Mr. Durkan: It might not be any harm to give designated and specified works. Subsection (27) the Minister of State a bit of a gallop. He seems states that the commission may determine what to be in a pugnacious mood. is a specified work and section 9E(1) states that the commission may designate a class of desig- Acting Chairman: The amendment was dis- nated works. I do not agree with the Minister of cussed with amendment No. 35. State’s argument that they are both the same thing. There is a difference between a specified Mr. Durkan: I did not discuss it. and a designated work and it may make sense to legislate for what a registered electrical contrac- Acting Chairman: The Deputy did not indicate tor must do to provide a completion certificate on to the Chair that he wanted to discuss it. completion of a designated electrical work. Mr. Durkan: I am indicating now. Mr. Fahey: I cannot explain it any better. It is Acting Chairman: I will allow the Deputy to a complicated area and is difficult to understand. speak on it. I suggest that my officials explain it to Deputy Ryan at a later stage. Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 36: Mr. Broughan: The Minister of State could In page 11, line 38, after “inspection” to send an SOS for the Minister, Deputy Noel insert the following: Dempsey. He was wrapped up in knots trying to “, within a reasonable time and taking the explain it on Committee Stage. circumstances into account,”. Mr. Fahey: Having been accused by the Green The amendment is well placed because circum- Party of being in the building business, I have stances may change from time to time. To insert 607 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 608

[Mr. Durkan.] areas of contention, particularly with reference to “as soon as possible” is one thing, but the circum- installations, whether they be electrical, gas or stances under which an inspection is carried out plumbing and heating. Certain basics must be fol- should be borne in mind. There may be very lowed and a checklist should be incorporated urgent and cogent reasons for having an inspec- which would cover some of the queries I had in tion carried out. For that reason, it is important that area. to take the circumstances into account. I do not wish to delay the House but I can think of a part- Mr. Eamon Ryan: I may be wrong but I look icular situation that occurred during the summer forward to an explanation by the Department where circumstances urged that an immediate officials in this regard as to when a completion inspection be carried out which ordinarily could certificate is needed and where we have legislated wait for two or three months. I ask the Minister for the difference between how we treat a “spec- of State to expand on his views on the subject. ified” work or a “designated” work. This may well exist in the legislation but I may have missed Mr. Fahey: I was not here on Committee Stage it. This could be pointed out to me separately, when an Opposition amendment was accepted given that the Minister of State is not willing to which states: “shall arrange for the carrying out point out where that difference applies. of the inspection as soon as practicable and, if What is the harm in my amendment which pro- appropriate, the issue of a completion cer- poses that the commission would also set out the tificate.” circumstances in which a completion certificate may be granted or withheld as well as the pro- Mr. Durkan: I am improving it further. cedures to be followed and the records to be maintained in that regard? Would this not Mr. Fahey: I am assured by my officials that provide a cover-all in case we have inadvertently this amendment is superfluous. missed something in this complex arrangement of designation of different types of works and Mr. Durkan: There is nothing superfluous, provide the commission with the authority to sort although I will not press the amendment. Circum- out any such difficulties that may arise in the stances arose during the summer where I thought future? it was necessary to further embellish and strengthen the particular line. I do not wish to Mr. Fahey: These amendments are not go into the details because it was a purely local accepted. situation but there are circumstances that could govern the speed with which a particular action Mr. Durkan: I am upset and surprised. would be taken. The Minister of State is becom- ing flustered over there. I hear him sighing. Mr. Fahey: The Deputy should not be upset. It is not that serious an issue. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Mr. Durkan: The Minister of State is becoming Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 38 to 40, pugnacious again, which I cannot believe. inclusive, form a composite proposal and are related to amendment No. 37. Amendment No. Mr. Fahey: Far from it. The proposed amend- 41 is also related and, therefore, amendments ments are superfluous to the overall thrust of the Nos. 37 to 41, inclusive, will be discussed provisions of section 4. The various procedures to together. be followed by registered electrical contractors will be specified in detail in the criteria document Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 37: to be prepared by CER. It should be noted that, In page 12, line 1, after “a” to insert as a rule, completion certificates must be issued “standard”. by contractors for any specified work carried out by them. With reference to what Deputy Ryan From discussions I had with the trade, I am of the said, it cannot be more clear than that. Specified view that a standard form might be more explicit works require a completion certificate. These will and might indicate more clearly what was in be specified by CER and will not include minor mind. For example, somebody might decide to matters such as some of the issues raised by the introduce their own form. I know this would Deputy. never happen, and should never happen, but in Designated works are those works which, if situations of this nature, the specified form may carried out by a person who is not a registered be intended in the section but it does not specifi- contractor, will incur an offence which carries a cally say so. I hope the Minister of State, in one fine. These works will be designated by CER and of his weaker moments, will decide to incorporate will be the more complex works which give rise it in the section. to greater safety concerns. There is a further reference in amendment No. 40 to the inclusion of a standard checklist. I ask Mr. Eamon Ryan: I accept what the Minister that this be included because it can be very help- of State said. Will he show me where in the pro- ful in determining the basic requirements and posed legislation it will be a requirement for an 609 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 610 registered electrical contractor who carries out a who belongs to a different industry body. There designated work to issue a completion certificate will be a difficulty in respect of who carries out to the customer? the inspection when an electrical contractor who is a member of one body moves to another body. Mr. Durkan: The related amendments have I would be interested to hear the Minister of fallen. There is a certain concern among the State’s response. people with whom we had discussions. I am sure either the Minister of State or somebody on the Mr. Fahey: These lines should not be deleted other side of the House had discussions with as it is envisaged that there may be more than them. If it was not the Minister of State, it might one body designated as an electrical safety super- have been the senior Minister or even backbench- visory body. It is essential to ensure that ers. The same kind of inquiries would have employees of one designated body should not arisen. carry out inspections of the work of members of These are not unreasonable amendments. They another designated body. It is ultimately the relate to the issues raised with us and which we responsibility of CER to ensure that each desig- raised ourselves. Notwithstanding the august nated body and its members carry out their position which the Minister holds, it might not be respective responsibilities. It is not intended that any harm now and again to climb off that horse, one designated body be put in the position of walk along the road, tarry a little while and take policing another designated body. an amendment on board now and again. Mr. Eamon Ryan: I would like to hear from Mr. Fahey: In response to Deputy Ryan, the the Minister of State how it is proposed to police designated works will always be specified and will the work of a contractor who has moved from therefore also require a completion certificate. one body to another. Why is it necessary to have a system where a member from the same body Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. does the work? Is there not sufficient trust in the industry where the inspection carried out by an Amendments Nos. 38 to 40, inclusive, not alternative body, if there are to be two, would be moved. seen as objective and not biased? Do we need to have a home referee on every occasion for the Mr. Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 41: inspection? Is it not possible in the designation of In page 12, between lines 7 and 8, to insert certain bodies to ensure there is a certain amount the following: of trust and co-operation in the industry in order that one inspector, regardless of who is the elec- “(c) circumstances in which a completion trical contractor, is seen to be above board and certificate may be granted or withheld,”. correct? It is strange that it has to be regulated in I could continue asking the Minister of State that way. questions about where in the legislation it states that designated works are specified works. I do Mr. Fahey: The ultimate responsibility rests not know if we are beyond that point of going with CER. It is not intended that one designated backwards and forwards. May I ask the Minister body would be put in the position of policing of State—— another. The authorised officer will primarily inspect the work of unregistered contractors and Acting Chairman: No, the Deputy cannot ask sometimes the work of its own registered contrac- the Minister of State a question. tors. If a contractor has moved from one body to another, his or her work will be inspected by an Mr. Eamon Ryan: ——when did we start legis- authorised officer of the body to which he or she lation on implicitness or where we imply things currently belongs. in legislation? Mr. Broughan: This matter was discussed in Amendment put and declared lost. detail on Committee Stage. Does this mean, that because CER may appoint an authorised officer, Mr. Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 42: including the person from RECI or the other In page 12, to delete lines 48 to 50 and in body, it has to take responsibility for all the page 13, to delete lines 1 to 3. examinations, completion certificates etc. carried out? I will not delay the time of the House on this amendment. The intent is to get away from a Mr. Fahey: Yes. restriction in the proposed legislation where no designated inspector could carry out works Mr. Broughan: CER is, therefore, responsible. except where he or she is a member of the same registered body of contractors in an association. I Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. question the sense of that. I do not see why it should not be possible for a duly appointed Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 43 and 44 inspector to assess work carried out by someone are related and may be discussed together. 611 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 612

Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 43: Mr. Broughan: The issue of the approval by Da´il E´ ireann of important developments in min- In page 13, line 39, to delete “\5,000” and isterial orders has been raised several times today substitute “\8,000”. and in the previous debate. I appreciate the Mini- These amendments reflect inflation and, if ster of State’s portfolio is the Department of Edu- accepted, would strengthen the legislation. They cation and Science. Ministerial orders and regu- are an incentive to follow guidelines, instructions lations are laid before the Houses. We receive and procedures. them or they are left in the Da´il Library for 21 days, but it is difficult for us to keep track of Mr. Fahey: The fine of \5,000 is the standard them. Yesterday, for example, we got an extra- maximum allowed in this case as specified by the ordinary note from Mr. Toibı´n, Department of Attorney General’s office although this maximum Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, may be updated from time to time. It is for the stating that a ministerial order was made transfer- courts to determine the actual amount of the fine, ring a chunk of the Department of the Marine to subject to the maximum amount. In respect of the the Department of Transport but that the transfer \15,000 fine, this level of fine is viewed as appro- was a mistake. priate given the characteristics and the gravity of All the fishery harbours, lock, stock and barrel, the offences involved. were transferred to the Department of Transport when that Department took over the great Acting Chairman: Is the amendment being national ports from the Department of pressed. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. The Labour Party opposed the break-up of the Mr. Durkan: No. We are approaching Department of the Marine in that fashion. The Christmas and we on this side of the House Minister of State who is present and who was a should be magnanimous as well. former Minister for the Marine will be heartened to know the Labour Party is dedicated to bringing Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. the Department of the Marine back together again. Those regulations were laid before the Da´il Amendment No. 44 not moved. but did not come before the Da´il, which is what Deputy Durkan has been asking for all day. Mr. Durkan: I move amendment No. 45: In the case of the break-up of the marine In page 14, line 15, after “works” where it section of the Department of Communications, firstly occurs to insert the following: Marine and Natural Resources, we got a new order stating that the fishery harbours are being “, such classes to be determined and taken back from the Department of Transport. ´ approved by Da´il Eireann,”. Deputy Durkan’s amendment in which he seeks This amendment is similar to an earlier amend- to insert the words “such classes to be determined ment tabled by Deputy Ryan. I have no reason to and approved by Da´il E´ ireann” is reasonable and believe the commission is not competent, having is consistent with the issue raised by him through- consulted with such persons as it considers appro- out this Bill. I support the amendment. priate, whoever they might be, and with the con- sent of the Minister, whoever he or she might be, Mr. Fahey: The provision to which this amend- may by regulation designate a class or classes of ment relates specifically requires not only that a electrical works to be designated electrical works. draft of such regulations must be laid before each The Minister can do this by regulation. House of the Oireachtas but also that a positive This goes back to the fundamental argument, resolution of each House is required before the the gripe I have had for a long time. I presume it regulations may be made. CER has the relevant is intended that the regulations will be laid before expertise to make a determination as to which the House, but there will be no debate in the electrical works should be designated as desig- House and the general wisdom that will deter- nated works on safety and other grounds. Such mine what those regulations might be will come technical issues are not appropriate for the con- not from the Opposition or the House, it will sideration of the House. come from the Minister by virtue of his regu- lations. This matter was raised previously by Mr. Durkan: What does the Minister of State Deputy Ryan. The Minister says it is implied. If mean by saying that they “are not appropriate for he ever goes to court and tells the judge that the consideration of the House”? When Members something was implied, he could have a problem. of the Minister of State’s party were in oppo- Perhaps he will look again at that amendment sition, they moaned and groaned on every single and take into account what Deputy Ryan said on issue. Every item that was not held up to their previous amendments in regard to the designated immediate scrutiny was delayed and bush- electrical works. This is one way of clarifying one whacked. When in opposition, they believed it aspect of the matter and it might be to the benefit was their right to discuss any subject under the of all concerned. sun in a full-blown debate every morning. They 613 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 614 have now forgotten all that but I was here when Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. it happened. Amendment No. 46 not moved. Mr. Broughan: They raised matters they did not even understand. Mr. Fahey: I move amendment No. 47:

Mr. Durkan: They still do not understand them, In page 17, lines 32 and 33, to delete all even after spending time on the Government words from and including “(inserted” in line 32 benches. I resent the degree to which the down to and including “2006)” in line 33 and Oireachtas is being by-passed on every legis- substitute “(inserted by section 5 of)”. lation. Heretofore, Ministers were anxious to ensure that they were covered in so far as their Acting Chairman: I wish to bring to the atten- accountability to the House was concerned. Now, tion of Members two typographical errors in the however, a policy has been developed whereby published list of amendments. The end of amend- major changes can be made, which can have a ment No. 47 reads “and substitute “(inserted by profound effect on legislation by virtue of regu- section 5 of)”. The word “of” should come after lations a Minister may think up in a lighter or the closing bracket. I do not know if that is clear not so light moment. I am not suggesting that the Minister of State has lighter moments but the to Members. extent of the impact of the regulations should be borne in mind. In particular we need to consider Mr. Durkan: It is very clear. May we comment how the industry will be affected by the magni- on it? tude of regulations which can completely alter the import and impact of the legislation. Acting Chairman: It has already been discussed with amendment No. 5. Acting Chairman: I must limit the Deputy to two minutes unless this is his final contribution. Mr. Durkan: It has but we were not aware of that error. Mr. Durkan: Three quarters of the amend- ments have gone so this could be my final salvo Acting Chairman: Presumably the Deputy did and I feel another vote coming on. not have the opportunity to discuss it in that regard and because of that I will grant some Acting Chairman: I wish to give the Minister of leniency. State an opportunity to reply at this stage. Mr. Durkan: We did not have the benefit of Mr. Durkan: I would like him to do so but hindsight at the time. This clearly illustrates the unfortunately I do not think he has anything to failure of ministerial infallibility, which is some- offer. I do not wish to be disrespectful to him but he will not take on board any amendment I move. thing about which I have always had doubts. At He is happily consolidated in his position, which long last, we have seen an admission in the is his prerogative. I am merely saying, however, House, in writing and even at this late stage, to that it would protect current and subsequent the effect that a mistake has been made. It is Ministers if the amendment was accepted. quite true that the whole world has not come to a halt as a result of this but it could. It proves Acting Chairman: Does the Minister of State a valuable point, that even Ministers can make wish to reply? mistakes. We have found out at last that they are not infallible. I will sleep contentedly tonight fol- Mr. Fahey: I am sorry that I cannot accede to lowing this admission that Ministers are no the Deputy’s requirements. The Commission for longer infallible. Energy Regulation is the expert body in this matter, not the Members of this House. With due Mr. Broughan: This amendment illustrates that respect to them, we must leave such issues to the Bill has been changed drastically. the experts. Mr. Durkan: Correct. Mr. Durkan: I have heard that point before. I do not know who the experts are but the defini- Mr. Broughan: We came in with one Bill but tion of an expert is important. My definition of major additional issues have since been intro- an expert is somebody who knows when to call in the experts. The Minister of State should bear duced. At the start of this debate we wanted that point in mind. energy safety legislation to operate under the aegis of CER. Many of the key issues we have Acting Chairman: Is the Deputy pressing the raised, including micro-generators and fuel pov- amendment? erty, should have been included in another major Bill. This demonstrates a lack of joined-up Mr. Durkan: No, but I am tempted to do so. thinking. 615 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 616

Acting Chairman: Does the Minister of State gencies, including the issues of energy security, wish to address those issues because of the typo- sustainability, fuel poverty and pricing, as iden- graphical error? tified by the Deputy. Amendments Nos. 52 to 55, inclusive, follow Mr. Fahey: It is a technical issue due to an on an amendment originally proposed by Deputy error, which is accepted. There is no more to be Eamon Ryan and from discussions which took said about it. place on Committee Stage. It is proposed to increase the minimum number of days within Mr. Durkan: The Minister of State’s humility which representations may be made relating to is acknowledged. proposed policy directions from the Minister to the CER from 21 to 30 and to require the Mini- Amendment agreed to. ster to submit a copy of the proposed policy direction to the Joint Committee on Communi- Amendment No. 48 not moved. cations, Marine and Natural Resources for con- sideration. The changes to subsection (5) are con- Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 49 and 50 sequential to those made to subsection (3) and are technical alternatives to the same part of the simply refer to the Minister’s obligations under Bill. Amendments Nos. 52 and 53 are technical the amended subsection. Given that these incor- alternatives to the same part of the Bill. Amend- porate the points raised by Deputies in the ments Nos. 51 and 54 to 56, inclusive, are related. majority of their amendments, Opposition Amendments Nos. 49 to 56, inclusive, may be dis- amendments Nos. 50, 51, 53 and 54 fall as a neces- cussed together. sary consequence of approval of the amendment. As regards Deputy Broughan’s amendment Mr. Fahey: I move amendment No. 49: No. 56, the issue of targets for renewable energy In page 18, to delete lines 3 to 10 and substi- within appropriate timeframes is addressed in tute the following: detail in the Green Paper on energy policy. While the sentiment behind the Deputy’s proposal is 10A.—(1)(a) In the interests of the proper laudable, the dates proposed are unrealistic and and effective regulation of the electricity and have little grounding in solid data or evidence. natural gas markets and the formulation of Changes in technology, new energy sources and policy applicable to such proper and effec- tive regulation, the Minister may give such national and international issues are constantly general policy directions to the Commission, evolving. The CER’s gas capacity statement and as he or she considers appropriate, to be fol- EirGrid’s generation adequacy reports project lowed by the Commission in the exercise of seven and five years into the future, respectively, its functions. which are more realistic timeframes. Business planning to a targeted 34 or 44 years in the future (b) Notwithstanding the generality of can have little or no concrete footing in present paragraph (a), such general policy directions realities and, while we may wish to be aspir- may have regard to the following issues— ational in our goals, we must also be realistic. (i) security of energy supply, Mr. Broughan: A key problem that regularly (ii) sustainability of energy supply, arises in times of crisis or major developments in (iii) competitiveness of energy supply, the area of energy is the failure by the Minister or for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to set out his objectives in directives. (iv) such other matter which the Mini- In that context, I welcome what the Minister of ster considers appropriate.”. State has said in terms of outlining the key objec- In the first instance, I propose to comment on tives which should be set out in any directive amendments Nos. 49, 52 and 55. Amendment No. from the Minister to the CER. 49 addresses issues raised by Deputy Broughan Some 20 years ago, when the former leader of on Committee Stage. It identifies certain issues the Labour Party, Dick Spring, was Minister for such as those captured under the three separate Energy, he set out the principles which should headings on the Department’s Green Paper on guide any coherent energy policy. These prin- energy policy, to which the Minister may have ciples, which included security of supply, com- regard in any general policy direction given to petitiveness and sustainability, remain relevant, CER. This is not intended to be an exhaustive list so it is good to see provision being made for them as the Minister will require the necessary flexi- in the legislation governing the CER. Therefore, bility to meet a variety of competing market and I commend the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, regulatory issues and contingencies, some of on listening to the argument I made in respect of which may not be easily predicted at this stage. amendment No. 51. The issues mentioned in the provision are Earlier I made a lengthy contribution on sufficiently broad to meet most if not all contin- energy poverty and I continue to be unhappy that 617 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) 25 October 2006. Bill 2006: Report Stage (Resumed) 618 the Green Paper devoted only one page to the to rectify the Government’s failure to meet the issue, even though it will profoundly affect our target. We all need targets. For example, Govern- constituents over the coming winter. We have to ment and Opposition parties have set targets for act drastically in light of what has happened in the number of seats they want to win in the next the CER and we will be depending on the fiscal general election. With regard to this fundamental response of the Minister for Finance, Deputy issue, we will hopefully meet the 2010 EU biofuel Cowen, to alleviate the problem. Deloitte & target of 5.75%. The Minister recently changed Touche estimates that 20% of the population, or the target for renewable sources of electricity for 750,000 people, suffers from energy poverty and 2010 from 13.4% to 15%. He has a target of 30% research I have conducted for the Labour Party for 2020. He is already setting targets. indicates that 250,000 people are profoundly Energy issues have very long lead times. Very affected and up to 500,000 deeply affected by the little can be achieved even in the lifetime of one problem. Many people were shocked to learn the government and we need to be thinking in terms extent of the energy problem from the pro- of seven to ten years in planning to move gener- fessional and academic study conducted by Delo- ation towards renewable sources. We should be itte & Touche. I urge the Minister of State to looking towards 2030, a quarter of a century from reconsider amendment No. 51 with a view to now, or perhaps 2050 to achieve a zero emissions including energy and fuel poverty among the economy as a reasonable ambition for any coun- CER’s responsibilities. Recent energy price try. We should be prepared to set targets and increases have had a severe impact, despite review them regularly here. The discussion we reports from Bord Ga´is E´ ireann and Flogas that had on the Green Party Bill on climate change home heating oil prices have fallen below the should be repeated on a regular basis in the price of gas. Last winter also saw significant remaining months of this Da´il and in future Da´i- increases in the price of home heating oil. leanna. I urge the Minister of State to accept Amendment No. 52 represents an advance on amendment No. 56 in the spirit in which it was the Bill as originally presented to the House. The tabled. extension to the time period for consultations is welcome. In my contribution on behalf of the Mr. Eamon Ryan: I thank the Minister for Labour Party to the review of the Green Paper, accepting the proposed intent of my amendment I will be arguing strongly for the inclusion of fuel No. 53, which I will not move, and for taking up poverty in the final White Paper and any legis- some of the suggestions made by Deputy lation subsequently introduced. Broughan, in particular the proposal to refer any Amendment No. 54 is in line with many of the such direction to the Oireachtas joint committee amendments that Deputy Durkan and I proposed in advance of a decision being made by the Mini- on Committee Stage with regard to laying draft ster, which is a welcome step in the right direc- directives before the Joint Committee on tion. I hope that the committees of the Houses Communications, Marine and Natural Resources can grasp the increasing opportunities for us to or any future Oireachtas committee on energy. become involved in discussion on detailed policy Full discussions on these matters would ensure issues as they are evolving rather than after the that Departments could not disappear because of fact, which is often the case in this Chamber. mistaken ministerial orders. The way in which I commend and thank Deputy Broughan for orders are presented as motions to the House and the intent and purpose of his amendment No. 56, then sent to the library means that it is difficult on which I concur with him. Amendment No. 49 for Deputies to understand exactly what is indicates the stars by which we navigate in energy happening. policy. The Green Paper is correct in highlighting With regard to amendment No. 56, the Green the three-way algorithm, almost, between Party’s Climate Change Targets Bill 2005 was environmental considerations, security of supply thought-provoking and useful. The Bill proposed and economic considerations. Deputy Broughan that we would conduct regular examinations and correctly pointed out that some other social con- hold full debates on climate change. In terms of siderations are not covered by the word “compet- energy, we are faced with the fundamental chal- itiveness”. It is possible that the word “competi- lenges of climate change, which no serious scien- tiveness” is too narrow in not considering the tist would now dispute, and the depletion of fossil social justice issues that can come into the econ- resources. Given that we will have to adapt our omic equation. economy over coming decades if we are to The gravity, scale and import of climate change become sustainable, it is reasonable to set targets. is such that it supersedes the economic and secur- Earlier a young Irish company made represen- ity of supply issues. In the film “An Inconvenient tations to Deputies with regard to meeting the Truth”, the former US Vice-President, Al Gore, target set by the EU for biofuels. A target was accurately portrays balancing the economy on set for 2005 of producing 2% of liquid fuels from one side and the environment on the other. A biofuel but, shamefully, the Government only clear realisation has been reached that such is the reached 0.00004%. That young company is trying scale and speed of change to the environment 619 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 620

[Mr. Eamon Ryan.] (i) security of energy supply, [which is that some scientists are now predicting as a result absolutely correct and essential] of climate change that we cannot possibly have a (ii) sustainability of energy supply, [which healthy economy in those circumstances. is absolutely correct] I agree with and commend the British Govern- ment and many others in recognising this in their (iii) competitiveness of energy supply, or stated energy policies. Everything starts and fin- (iv) such other matter which the Minister ishes with climate change targets. Obviously, considers appropriate. economic and security of supply considerations must be taken into account. However, the sort I would have thought that some of the things that of cuts that scientists estimate we must make to happened in recent weeks might also have been address the issue represent the star by which they appropriate. The issues raised by Deputies are guiding themselves. Even if we try to adopt a Broughan and Eamon Ryan and me could have different mode and try to buy our way out of the been brought within that area. This comes back issue or ignore it, we can be fairly certain that, to the Minister’s wisdom in arriving at a con- within the scale of time in which energy policy clusion as to what else should be included. applies, the international scientific community Arising from the energy price increases of will bring us back to that scientific reality. There- recent weeks and other proposed electricity fore it makes sense for us to start now rather than prices to be implemented in the new year, it is wait to be forced into the issue. the general consensus that industry cannot sus- The peak in oil production, which will tain them and that some industries will need to undoubtedly occur within a matter of years rather relocate away from the country because of the than decades, requires a similar solution. Today problems that will be presented to them. In those 60% of our energy comes from oil. On a geologi- circumstances, the Minister under the heading of cal basis we know that once peak production has policy directions to the commission, should have occurred, access to cheap oil will deplete each realised the impact those increases would have on year by approximately 2% to 2.5% per annum. industry, employment etc. Coincidentally that equates to the reduction we I cannot understand why no regard was had for will need to make if we accept scientific advice the economic impact of the regulator’s decisions. on climate change. We will need to make deep We have heard all about the need to observe the cuts in emissions as our part of international co- independence of the regulator and to recognise operation to address the issue. For two reasons that the regulator is above politics. Deputy coming from different directions we need to fol- Broughan mentioned the analogy to the Health low the same policy. Service Executive where somebody who is not The fundamental stark issues ahead of us are accountable has taken over and determines not given sufficient consideration in the Com- policy. This amendment represents an admission mission for Energy Regulation or the Govern- by the Minister that policy directions are within ment and are not properly recognised in the his or her remit. Incidentally I notice the words Green Paper. Regardless of what wording we “his or her”. When discussing a proposed amend- insert into legislation, we will only start to address ment to another Bill yesterday, the Minister the issue when we show real political will and involved deemed that “his or her” was not leadership. We need to go beyond the short-term necessary. thinking of the next general election towards thinking, as Deputy Broughan outlined, what fun- Mr. Broughan: The word “Minister” is gen- damental changes in energy need to be made over der-neutral. several governments. While that is for another Mr. Durkan: That is correct. day, I commend the Minister for these changes and I commend Deputy Broughan for his amend- Debate adjourned. ment No. 56, which I fully support.

Mr. Durkan: With my colleagues, I welcome Private Members’ Business. the Minister’s amendment, reflecting the views expressed on Committee Stage, which again ———— proves my point that we can all help each other out to a lesser or greater extent. Amendment No Health Services: Motion (Resumed). 49 has the heading “Policy directions to Com- mission.” All along we have been told that the The following motion was moved by Deputy commission is independent. The list of directions, McManus on Tuesday, 24 October 2006: with which I agree, is as follows: That Da´il E´ ireann, believing: (b) Notwithstanding the generality of para- — that the Irish people are entitled to a graph (a), such general policy directions may health service that will deliver excel- have regard to the following issues—— lence, equality and efficiency; 621 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 622

— that a person’s financial means must — establish an independent inspectorate not be a barrier to him or her receiv- to implement a rigorous programme ing the most appropriate and best of inspection in all nursing homes and medical treatment; and community care facilities; and — that health must be treated as a com- — invest in a modern home help service munity service; and establish a programme to train expresses its serious concern at the growing and employ a significantly greater pattern of privatisation of medical services number of public health nurses whose under the current Government and the services are so valuable to elderly increasing trend towards reliance on for-pro- patients. fit medicine; Debate resumed on amendment No. 1: deploring, in particular: To delete all words after “Da´il E´ ireann” and — the decision of the Minister for substitute the following: Health and Children and the Govern- ment to promote the building of “— welcomes the Government’s commit- private for-profit hospitals on the ment to promoting high quality health grounds of existing voluntary and services and in particular to the set- public hospitals; ting up of the independent Health — the continued use of tax incentives to Information and Quality Authority promote the development of private which will drive the quality agenda in super-clinics; the health services; — the increased use of beds in private — notes the proposed statutory role of nursing homes, for which no statutory the Office of the Chief Inspector of scheme of regulation and inspection Social Services in inspecting and is in place; and maintaining registers of residential centres for people with disabilities, — the running down of the publicly pro- children in need of care and protec- vided home help service and the tion and older people, including decision to contract a US based com- private nursing homes; pany to provide home help services for the elderly; — recognises the fact that private health care is and has always been a feature calls on the Government to abandon this of health care provision in Ireland; strategy as it will exacerbate the two-tier system of health care, whereas the goal — commends the Government on the should be to deliver an integrated service, measures it is promoting to improve and to: access for public patients to acute hospital care; — move immediately to provide at least 1,500 community care beds for — supports the Government’s policy of patients who currently and inap- encouraging public and private sec- propriately occupy acute hospital tors to work together in the provision beds; of health care for the benefit of the entire population and encourages — publish a coherent programme for further innovation and initiative in investment in additional acute this regard; hospital beds in not-for-profit hospitals, as promised in the health — supports the co-location initiative to strategy published in 2001; develop private hospitals on the cam- puses of public hospitals in order that — mandate the Health Service Execu- up to 1,000 beds currently reserved tive to pursue strategies that will for private patients may be re-desig- make greater use of existing beds, nated for use by public patients in a including more ward rounds by con- most cost effective way; sultants and better discharge planning; — notes that the Health Service Execu- tive is engaged in a public procure- — abolish tax incentives for super ment process to develop private private clinics and use the monies hospitals at 10 public hospital sites; thus freed up, as well as lands on public hospitals, where appropriate, — notes the increase of 1,200 in the to construct community care number of inpatient beds and day facilities; treatment places since the publication 623 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 624

of the health strategy in 2001 and the Acting Chairman (Ms O’Sullivan): Is that plans to open new acute hospital agreed? Agreed. units; Mr. Callanan: I wish to speak about services — notes that an independent review of for the elderly. It is the Department’s policy to the scheme of capital allowances for maintain older people in dignity and indepen- investment in private hospitals dence at home in accordance with their wishes recommended its continuance as a and at the same provide high quality residential means to address supply shortages care for them when they can no longer be main- and reduce costs; tained in this manner. The Government’s com- — welcomes the introduction by the mitment to the development of a range of HSE of a broad-based winter initiat- services for older people can be demonstrated ive which is designed to ensure that clearly by outlining the resources made available the services required to address the in recent years. Between 1997 and 2005, inclusive, particular demands of the winter sea- additional spending on health care services was \ son are in place and operating opti- in excess of 302 million. Funding is provided mally, including the co-ordination of through the carer’s allowance and carer’s benefit. services in relation to discharge I welcome the changes that have been made to initiatives, continuing care and home these payments. The carer’s allowance was extended to 24 months and the disregard per- supports; taining thereto allows many more people to — commends the Minister for Health become eligible. The respite grant is very and Children for the provision of welcome. over 900 long-stay beds in private The home help service, which is the corner- nursing homes in the last two years stone of community-based care for older people, and acknowledges that all private is delivered as part of the community support nursing home beds are subject to service. This service is targeted at high and registration and inspection; medium dependency clients according to need. An additional \33 million was allocated for this — commends the Minister for Health programme in the budget for 2006 and it is being and Children for providing funding to used to provide 1.7 million more home help hours provide a further 1.75 million home this year. The HSE has reported that the prog- help hours this year and a tripling of ramme is on target. There has been significant home care packages to 3,000 and demand for home help due to the increasing notes that the HSE is improving and number of older people living in the community. enhancing the service by using a Provision for home help services is critical to range of additional providers, includ- supporting older people at home, preventing ing voluntary groups and the private admissions to acute services, delaying admissions, sector; continuing care and facilitating early discharge — acknowledges and supports the from the acute hospital sector to the community. important role of public health On community services, there has been a sig- nurses, who are a key element in the nificant increase in the resources made available delivery of community based health to the meals-on-wheels service. An additional \10 services, and notes that the HSE million was spent on the service in 2004 and sponsors 130 staff to train as public additional funding of \2.5 million was provided health nurses each year at a cost of in 2005, together with a further \2.5 million this over \5.2 million; year. This amounts to an increase of 50% over the figure for 2004. The meals-on-wheels service — acknowledges that the HSE is cur- is one of a range of services that can support rently engaged in contracting 800 older living in their own homes. additional nursing home beds as part I congratulate Ballinasloe Social Services on its of the winter initiative; and 25th anniversary last week. The chairman, Sr. — acknowledges that the HSE is finalis- Alacoque, and the chief executive officer, ing proposals for the provision of 350 Theresa Coughlan, are doing wonderful work additional public beds in the Dublin keeping people out of hospitals. region and an additional 200 such Funding for nursing home subventions has beds in Cork also.” been increased but we in the west have difficulty —(Minister for Health and Children). with the amount being paid there compared to the east and south. The rate in the west is far less Mr. Callanan: I wish to share time with than half that in the east and this is causing Deputies O’Connor, Devins, Fiona O’Malley, serious difficulties for those with parents in nurs- Fitzpatrick and Moloney. ing homes in the west. I ask the Minister to 625 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 626 review the way in which the subvention is paid part of the Tallaght Hospital operation. We now and to make it fairer. need to know how to proceed. What will be the I welcome the proposals to build a new unit at future of children’s services in Tallaght Hospital? St. Brendan’s Geriatric Hospital in Loughrea and The bottom line for my community, with whom I a new community nursing home in Ballinasloe. have marched, is that children’s services must be The new beds will be very welcome as the waiting retained at the hospital. As Archbishop Eames list for public geriatric care in County Galway is told the Taoiseach, they must also be developed. very long. I compliment the staff of St. Brendan’s I will not repeat the points I made at the meet- on the great care they are providing to the eld- ings of the joint committee but it is very erly. I welcome the new health campus for Tuam, important that I make clear my strong views and which can be used as a step-down facility for the express my support for Tallaght Hospital. Even if Galway hospitals. I were not living in or representing Tallaght, I Some \55 million has been allocated for home would still take the view that the hospital should care packages based on the 1,100 pilot care be the chosen site for the National Children’s schemes in place by the end of 2005. They are Hospital. It meets all the criteria and the HSE delivering a wide range of services. It is planned decision has confused many people. It was a that an additional 2,000 packages will be in place flawed decision. by the end of 2006. Let me make a few other points on the future The HSE has advised that 1,800 new clients of Tallaght Hospital. As one will know, it was for- were in receipt of home care in the first six med in 1998 through the charter by amalgamating months of this year. Home care packages are tar- the Adelaide and Meath hospitals and the geted at those in the community who would National Children’s Hospital. Its catchment area otherwise require admission to residential care. includes Tallaght, which is the third largest popu- The packages vary according to the care needs of lation centre in the country, and also stretches the individual, which may include the services of through north Kildare and Wicklow. nurses, home care attendants, home helps and I have a number of worries regarding the various therapists, including physiotherapists and development of services at Tallaght Hospital. It occupational therapists. These packages are is important that cancer services remain in the delivered through the HSE for a range of pro- hospital when the proposed cancer services viders, including the HSE itself, voluntary groups review is completed next year. and private sector organisations. There has been much talk in recent times about accident and emergency services, and Tallaght Mr. O’Connor: I welcome the opportunity to Hospital has had its difficulties in this regard. As make a brief contribution to this very important one who lives in and represents Tallaght, I debate. I had intended to spend my five minutes believe the new 39-bed transition unit, which was talking about a range of national issues and sup- opened recently, is being used mainly by patients port my colleague Deputy Fiona O’Malley in from the accident and emergency department respect of Loughlinstown. However, no debate whose length of stay is anticipated to be less than on health, this week or any other week, could go five days. I am glad that, since the opening of the ahead without some mention of Tallaght unit, the number of patients waiting over night in Hospital, of which I am very proud. the accident and emergency department has I will not rehash the point I made repeatedly dropped significantly. We should all welcome over recent weeks, particularly at meetings of the this move. Joint Committee on Health and Children, chaired The Minister for Health and Children stated by Deputy Moloney. Suffice it to say that this is last night that an extra 100 beds will be made not just an issue for Tallaght but also for the available for public patients in Tallaght Hospital Dublin region, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow. We arising from the initiative she announced. This is need clarity regarding what is to happen. The positive news. However, I am unhappy about and decision to situate the major children’s hospital agitated over the children’s services issue, which on the site of the Mater has been made. I live needs to be clarified. I want the HSE to outline within the shadow of Tallaght Hospital and have to the community in Tallaght and elsewhere the been involved in the project since 1988 when I future of the services and state how they are to was first appointed to the board by the then Mini- be developed. ster for Health, Deputy O’Hanlon. He made a good choice. Dr. Devins: I am delighted to have an oppor- tunity to speak on this Private Members’ motion Dr. Twomey: He regrets it ever since. on the health service, which has been proposed by the Labour Party. Mr. O’Connor: He was a very far-sighted Mini- ster for Health. Mr. Sherlock: Is the Deputy in favour of it? In 1998, I was involved with the board that opened the hospital. We were very clear that the Dr. Devins: As the Minister for Health and National Children’s Hospital would be an integral Children stated last night, this motion is not just 627 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 628

[Dr. Devins.] work for the HSE in Sligo and Manorhamilton. black and white — it is all black, unfortunately. If I have a problem or a query, it is attended to That is no surprise because members of the in a speedy and courteous fashion. I might not Labour Party frequently speak about this coun- always like the answers I am given, but I cannot try’s health service in a negative fashion. I often deny that the staff of the HSE are available and wonder whether they are living in the real world. responsive. It seems there are difficulties in the There are problems in the health service, but they communication between the various local offices are being dealt with. Over the past 12 months, an and the central governing body of the HSE. I increasing number of people who have used the accept that such matters have improved, but it health service have told me how satisfied they are was not before time. I ask the Minister for Health with it. I am sure the other Deputies in the House and Children to use her offices to facilitate have had the same experience. One of the most further improvements in this regard. The HSE poignant episodes I encountered recently was was established to offer the best possible service when I met an elderly lady who had been having to the users of the health system — patients and treatment for cancer in Sligo General Hospital their families. Any logjam or lack of communi- over a period of time. Her life had not been easy, cation between local services and national issues especially during the recent past, as she had been must be avoided. I commend the Minister’s in constant pain for some time. When I met her amendment to the House. some weeks ago, she praised the treatment she received and the courtesy that was extended to Ms F. O’Malley: I am pleased to have an her by the staff of the hospital. I have noticed this opportunity to speak about this motion. It is trend to an increasing extent over recent months. important to be guided by an ideology in politics, In most cases, people who have had contact with but we need to ensure we do not become slaves the health service, at primary level or in a hospital to our ideologies. The Minister for Health and setting, have told me they were more satisfied Children is always criticised, unfortunately, by with the service than they were in the past. those who accuse her of being a slave to, or There are problems in the health care system, guided by, a particular ideology. as I have said, and they must be addressed. One of the problems I have encountered is the length Mr. J. Breen: Rightly so. of time patients have to wait to be called to out- patient clinics. Such problems occur in just a few Ms F. O’Malley: I suggest that the Opposition specialties, because matters have improved is completely enslaved by its ideology. The initiat- recently. We have all noticed the great effect the ive of the Minister for Health and Children in National Treatment Purchase Fund has had on increasing the number of public beds in this coun- the length of time patients have to wait for oper- try has been completely misinterpreted. I prefer ations. The dramatic reduction in waiting times to call it a “reclamation project” because it can be attributed in no small measure to the work involves the reclamation of 1,000 public beds, of the fund. I wonder whether a similar scheme exclusively for the public health service, and might be considered for patients who have been needs to be recognised as such. Those who use on outpatient waiting lists for a long time. Most some warped form of logic like to refer to it as hospitals operate emergency waiting lists for privatisation, however, which does not make any medical or surgical emergencies. The stress and sense. Some 1,000 beds, which are currently sub- pain encountered by people whose cases are not sidised and designated for exclusive use by the considered emergencies, but who have to wait a private sector, are to be returned to the exclusive long time to be called for a first consultation, can use of the public health system. That is what this be very debilitating in many instances. I would initiative is actually all about. Those who inter- welcome an innovative approach that would help pret this policy in any other way are doing it a to shorten such waiting lists, perhaps like that disservice. They are scaring the public by suggest- adopted in the National Treatment Purchase ing that the number of available beds is Fund. decreasing. In the remaining time available to me, I would like to speak about the overall work of the Health Mr. Sherlock: The Deputy does not believe in Service Executive. Along with many of my col- privatisation at all. leagues from the west, I attended a briefing by the western section of the HSE in Leinster House Ms F. O’Malley: I cannot believe that the this morning. Two Deputies left the meeting Labour Party wants to perpetuate a system that early, unfortunately. I do not know whether they provides for reserved and subsidised private beds left because they had other things to do — per- in the publicly funded system. haps their departure could be considered as a walk-out. I said at that meeting, as I have said in Mr. F. McGrath: I blame Deputy Fitzpatrick. this Chamber on previous occasions, that I have an excellent relationship with the people who Mr. Moloney: He has gone. 629 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 630

Ms F. O’Malley: The Labour Party should An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy O’Malley, with- think about what it is looking for. I am not sure out interruption. it has really thought through its position. Ms F. O’Malley: I thank the Chair. When Mr. Curran: It has not. Deputy Twomey was in conversation with the Minister, he declined to take the opportunity to Ms F. O’Malley: It has given a knee-jerk reac- indicate that he would halt the progress that is tion to a policy initiative that is demonstrably under way. delivering treatment to and shorter waiting times for the public. That is an example of ideology get- Dr. Twomey: On a point of order—— ting in the way of the perception of service deliv- Ms F. O’Malley: I suppose part of the reason ery. The Minister’s National Treatment Purchase he declined to take that opportunity is that he Fund initiative has proven that services can be has not yet cut a deal with his putative partners bought privately in certain circumstances. Why in government. not buy them in such circumstances? What differ- ence does it make to someone aged 60 or 80, for Dr. Twomey: Nothing was declined. The example, who has been waiting for a hip oper- Government will not say how it will pay for its ation for many months or years? policy.

Mr. J. Breen: They might have been waiting An Ceann Comhairle: That is not a point of that long in an accident and emergency order. department. Ms F. O’Malley: The difficulty is that the Ms F. O’Malley: They do not care who is people cannot wait for a health policy to be delivering the service as long as they are getting thrown together—— it. That is what is important. The duty of the Minister for Health and Children, the Govern- Dr. Twomey: The Deputy should tell the truth. ment and the Parliament is to improve the pro- vision of services to all the citizens of this country Ms F. O’Malley: ——by two parties which will and to ensure they get the best value and the best not be able to make up the numbers to form a service available. That is what the Minister, Government. Deputy Harney, has proven capable of doing and she will continue to do so. Dr. Twomey: She should tell the truth. Ms F. O’Malley: Such a Government would Mr. F. McGrath: She has not delivered. possibly be supported by the Green Party, but we do not know what its policies are. Mr. M. Ahern: We will see in a few years time. Mr. Gormley: The Deputy should take the time Ms F. O’Malley: If anybody else is in charge of to familiarise herself with them. the health care service following the next general election, we will wait and see whether they will Ms F. O’Malley: The people do not have time halt the progress that is well under way. to wait for such policies be drawn up.

Mr. F. McGrath: She has not delivered in nine Mr. Gormley: The Deputy does not know what years. she is saying.

Mr. Curran: She has delivered in most areas. Ms F. O’Malley: Progress is well under way under the systems which have been in place for Mr. M. Ahern: The Government has delivered. some time.

Ms F. O’Malley: I noticed when I was—— Dr. Twomey: We do not know the Progressive Democrats’ policies. Mr. F. McGrath: She has not delivered on the Ms F. O’Malley: Can the Chair advise me of health issue, as Deputy Curran knows. the amount of time that is remaining?

Mr. Curran: She absolutely has. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has one minute remaining. Ms F. O’Malley: ——listening to the radio this afternoon that Deputy Twomey was in conver- Ms F. O’Malley: I do not want to take too sation with the Minister. much time.

Mr. F. McGrath: I will tell the Deputy the facts. Mr. Healy: The Deputy should sit down. 631 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 632

Dr. Twomey: The Members are laughing at However, there is no danger to Tallaght hospital her. and it will not lose the children’s hospital facili- ties. What we are discussing is the development Ms F. O’Malley: The project that is under way of a tertiary hospital on the north side of Dublin is truly a project of reclamation. Far from priv- city. atising the health service, the Minister is restoring to the public health service some public beds Mr. F. McGrath: Hear, hear. which will be exclusively for the public use. It is time for the Opposition parties to be honest and Dr. Fitzpatrick: I thank Deputy McGrath for clear about that fact. They should acknowledge his support. This is where the bulk of essential the good work that the Minister is doing. surgical, medical and emergency expertise is based, with a tradition going back centuries. The Dr. Twomey: Why is the Minister afraid to Rotunda Hospital was founded over 250 years answer my questions? ago. I was a member of that hospital’s board for Ms F. O’Malley: The Minister is not remotely some years and was delighted and honoured to afraid of the Deputy. serve there. The ethos at the Rotunda Hospital is nearer that of Tallaght hospital than the Mater Mr. Curran: Deputy Twomey should ask a hospital, Beaumont Hospital, Blanchardstown straight question. hospital or Temple Street children’s hospital. Yet a recent statement indicates they wish to move Mr. F. McGrath: I blame Deputy Fitzpatrick. their facilities to a Mater hospital campus. A body of expertise and experience is being Dr. Twomey: Questions cannot get much assembled on the north side of Dublin city with a straighter than those I have asked the Minister, dedication to the treatment of people unrivalled Deputy Harney. in Ireland. I conducted some research recently and found Mr. Curran: She is not afraid to answer that over 70% of those arriving at hospitals, questions. including the seriously injured, came on foot or by public transport. We will build a metro station An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy Fitzpatrick. under the Mater hospital so talk of access to the new tertiary hospital facility is facetious to say the Dr. Twomey: She is afraid to answer them. She least. The tertiary hospital discussion has been cannot even answer the questions I have asked muddied by people with vested interests, not all her. of which are in the best interests of the patients they purport to look after. Dr. Fitzpatrick: Deputy Twomey is usurping Deputy Finian McGrath will be interested to my time. hear that neurosurgery facilities for children under five years of age will move to Temple Dr. Twomey: I apologise. Street children’s hospital. This is not because neurosurgical facilities there are better than at Dr. Fitzpatrick: We have an outstanding Mini- Beaumont Hospital, but because over the years a ster for Health and Children and I commend her. body of expertise, knowledge and experience in She has undertaken a trojan task since coming anaesthesia dealing with seriously ill children has to office. been built up. Mr. F. McGrath: This is a trojan horse. Mr. Healy: Is there anywhere else in the coun- Dr. Fitzpatrick: We can see the fruits of this try other than Dublin? I know of a man from coming through now. Deputy Finian McGrath Clonmel who has been unable to gain access to may not believe me but I am a general prac- Cork’s neurosurgery unit for the past month. titioner and have seen the amazing changes in the health services since the Minister took office. This Dr. Fitzpatrick: I do not represent the Deputy’s is not to denigrate her predecessors who dealt constituency. He is well able to look after his with serious problems and massive inertia in the own. Let us forget politics and how it arises in health board system. The Ceann Comhairle has medicine; the well-being of the patient must be experience in this regard and if he does not nod our primary concern. This Minister for Health in agreement he will understand what I am refer- and Children is the first to put the patient first ring to. and politics second. I have the highest regard for Deputy O’Connor and his defence of Tallaght. He made a strong Mr. Healy: Nonsense. speech in support of Tallaght hospital and the retention of the children’s hospital facilities there. Ms McManus: Poor Tallaght. 633 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 634

Mr. Moloney: I welcome the position the Mini- because previously we were very used to the ster has taken on this issue and I do not under- involvement of the private sector in public health. stand why Deputies are agitated and oppose this Take the designation of private and semi-private proposal. Rather than failed policies, a combi- beds in public hospitals, which is something we nation of excellent policies have come from the have been aware of for years. We had no problem Minister and previous Fianna Fa´il Ministers in with income tax relief on private health insurance recent years. premiums. The same goes for income tax relief This issue is a reflection on the success of the on medical and dental expenses and the National economy whereby we invite the private sector to Treatment Purchase Fund. become involved in resolving the health service I do not see the proposed initiative as one party difficulties that have arisen over the years. in government advancing its ideology. I see it as Through this investment throughout the State we a building block that will help solve the accident will see more public beds available and, more and emergency crisis, bed capacity issues and so importantly, better use of health services. on. This is something that should not divide the Take, for example, the proposed policy of House; we should welcome it. Local authorities locating private hospitals on public land. This is often have difficulty rezoning land banks around something I entirely support and cannot under- hospitals, though the argument is frequently stand why Deputies perceive difficulties with it. made that rezoning for residential purposes will In my constituency there is a large land bank create funding for hospitals which can cause beside Portlaoise hospital and I hope to see a annoyance in local communities. This initiative private hospital on that ground. I recognise the could resolve such issues. Land that heretofore combination of technical and medical expertise, belonged to a hospital campus can now be prop- with other services, that can be used in the private erly used by the Department of Health and Chil- and public sectors to resolve the issue of waiting dren. This will solve health issues and make lists and present greater bed capacity. I wonder better use of health funding. I fully support the why Deputies are opposed to this idea. I even Minister for Health and Children’s proposal and began to wonder if Deputies feared we might believe it is one of many Government initiatives resolve the health difficulties too quickly. to address the health issue. I wish this Admini- stration had more time left to bring all these Ms McManus: Does the Deputy mean they elements together and resolve the difficulties fac- might be solved in the next six months? ing the health service.

Mr. Moloney: I believe in the combination of Mr. Gormley: I see Deputy Fiona O’Malley is these policies with the Minister for Health and leaving. I was about to be very generous by Children inviting the participation of the private acknowledging that any Minister for Health and sector. Some years ago there was a huge problem Children has an unenviable task. It is not an relating to beds for the elderly in private nursing easy job. homes. Ms F. O’Malley: I will stay for this. Dr. Twomey: Is it sorted out? Mr. Gormley: People in the Opposition may Mr. Moloney: I do not know what happens in say they would like that job but it is, without Dublin but in rural areas there are no difficulties doubt, difficult because there are many compet- in this regard due to the involvement of the ing interests. We now have the medical means private sector in providing nursing home capacity. and technology to keep people alive far longer I can see the same outcomes resulting from this. than previously, and the longer they live the more treatment they will require in the course of a life- Dr. Twomey: That will be news to the Minister time. This consumes more money. This is why we of State at the Department of Communications, currently find ourselves in difficulty, but we are Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Browne. not alone. Many countries throughout the Euro- pean Union and elsewhere have difficulties in Mr. Moloney: I am only concerned with look- their health services. For example, the oft-lauded ing after the area of Laois and Offaly. I do not French system will, by all accounts, be broke go near Wexford as there is no point. Where I within 15 years. That is the stark reality many come from the involvement of the private sector countries must face. has produced excellent dividends and has Having been generous, I need to make some reduced waiting lists. I can see the same hap- critical remarks. pening with this matter. Public hospitals and consultants are paid more Ms F. O’Malley: I wondered how long the for private patients in public-funded hospitals Deputy could maintain his tone. through the taxpayer and I believe this is an opportunity to provide extra beds in the system. Mr. Gormley: The current Minister introduced I wonder how the change of heart came about the HSE. At the time, I said that the it would 635 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 636

[Mr. Gormley.] ing list. The Deputy asked what the Green Party become another layer of bureaucracy and lead to is about. We really believe in equality. Nobody less transparency and accountability. This is has the guts to stand up and call for a common exactly what has happened. The current Minister waiting list. This is where the real inequality lies has also presided over the A&E units. It is ironic in our system and it is totally and utterly that the Minister has struck a blow for equality unacceptable. — regardless of whether one is insured or unin- Many of our A&E units are clogged up at the sured, one stands a good chance of ending up on weekend with people who have consumed too a trolley. much alcohol. Many illnesses we observe in our hospitals are related to alcohol consumption. In Ms F. O’Malley: Does the Deputy note the pro- terms of absenteeism and anti-social behaviour, gress made in accident and emergency units? the consequences of alcohol consumption are costing us billions of euro every year. The Mini- An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Gormley ster of Health and Children and the Government to continue without interruption. have not faced up to that reality. The alcohol products Bill was promised by Mr. Gormley: A&E units, particularly in some Deputy Martin when he was Minister for Health parts of this city, are overflowing. Deputy O’Malley mentioned progress. I would like her to and Children. It was on the programme of prom- explain that progress to some of the people wait- ised legislation but was removed at the behest of ing on those trolleys. the alcohol industry. That was both irresponsible I have tabled a question to the Minister asking and wrong. Facing up to the realities of alcohol what preparations have been made for the winter. consumption is something that most Deputies Promises were made not just by the Minister, but here would advocate. Warnings should be put on also by the HSE—— alcohol bottles. The revival of this Bill is some- thing about which Deputy O’Malley should speak Ms F. O’Malley: Did the Deputy not see the to her party colleague, the Minister. statement made by the IMO last week? Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: On behalf of Sinn Mr. Gormley: ——and very little progress has Fe´in, I support the motion in the name of the been made. We have a capacity problem which Labour Members. The privatisation of our the Minister and the HSE refuse to recognise. hospital services by the Fianna Fa´il-Progressive Democrats Government is something we in Sinn Ms F. O’Malley: They are seeking to address it. Fe´in have been campaigning strongly against for months. On Saturday last, we organised a major Mr. Gormley: It is not rocket science. Bed rally in Dublin demanding health care rights for capacity in this country has been reduced by 25% all. One of the main themes was our opposition over many years and our population has to the Minister of Health and Children, Deputy increased by 25% in the meantime. Therefore, we Harney’s outrageous plan to allocate land at have a problem and need to address it by provid- public hospital sites, as well as massive tax breaks, ing more capacity. to the developers of private for-profit hospitals. The Deputy’s spin on this was wonderful. She On 9 August, we held protests at most of the said more capacity could be provided by investing ten sites nominated for this co-location plan. in the private sector. Today, a new private hospital, subsidised by the Government with tax breaks, was opened in Ms F. O’Malley: We are claiming private beds Sandyford in Dublin. This is run by Beacon, part for public use. of the Beacon-Triad group with a massive parent Mr. Gormley: The Deputy’s heartfelt plea and health care company in the United States. It is concern for public patients tugged at my hearts- reported that the parent company has had to pay trings. It amounts to nothing but spin. The $1.7 billion to the US Justice Department arising Deputy’s party represents the private sector; the out of civil and criminal cases against it. These party is concerned with the private patient. same privateers are among the bidders to develop private hospitals on six of the Minister’s ten sites. Ms F. O’Malley: Our party is one that presents All the Minister and the Taoiseach can do when opportunities and solutions. they are asked about this in the Da´il is parrot the company’s denial. However, the facts are there Mr. Gormley: If the Deputy really believed in and I believe they will come back to haunt the equality, and in the lot of the public patient, why Government. More importantly, if they persist will she not advocate a common waiting list? with this plan, the privateers will further damage Would that not make sense? Those who have our ailing health services. money get treated first and those that do not have Today, on the same day as this new Beacon money are left until last. This is the reality. The Hospital opened, we learned that planning per- Deputy’s party would not introduce such a wait- mission has been granted for a luxury new private 637 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 638 hospital in the grounds of Adare Manor in subsidised by tax incentives. We need clarity. County Limerick. We are told it will be set in What is Fine Gael policy and what will be the rolling parkland with 100 private rooms, each policy of a Fine Gael-Labour-led administration with a flat screen television and Internet access. if one is ever formed? We need to know if they It will have six operating theatres, two radiology will end tax breaks for private hospitals. That suites and 30 consultant suites. An Irish- must be spelt out because the public deserve to American businessman and BMI Healthcare, a know. leading private hospital company in Britain, will A world class health service cannot be pro- operate it. These developers have also submitted vided while the public purse subsidises both bids for the co-located private hospital in the public and private health care. The private system grounds of Limerick Regional Hospital. will always win and under this Minister that is Are members of the Fianna Fa´il Party happy absolutely the case. The system will be world that the two-tier system of hospital care in this class but only for the privileged few while the rest State is now being reinforced by their Progressive of us will have to struggle with second class Democrats Minister for Health and Children? service. That is unacceptable. The Fianna Fa´il election manifesto, on which Sinn Fe´in unashamedly supports a universal, they sought their mandate in 2002, pledged to end publicly provided health service with access for the two-tier system. Are they happy with circum- all based on need alone. That is the critical posi- stances where older people who have worked all tion and I hope it is the Labour Party position their lives and are in poor circumstances in their and that, in time, good sense will come to twilight years must endure the indignities and Fianna Fa´il. dangers of our public hospital A&E units and wards while the privileged few can book into lux- Ms C. Murphy: I welcome and support this ury hospitals with televisions and computers in Private Members’ motion. I want to focus on the every room? Is that the legacy of a party that calls privatisation of care and the need for health to itself republican? be treated as a community service. Not only are The Labour Party motion is worthy of support we moving toward more private hospitals, clinics and I commend it on tabling it. I now turn to their and nursing homes, we are moving towards a colleagues in the proposed rainbow alternative. I franchise approach to the delivery of home care. find it curious that the Fine Gael Deputies did We built a home help system through the health not co-sign the motion as has been the practice boards over many years. It stemmed from volun- lately. Today, on the “News at One” on RTE teerism and was subsequently recognised by a radio, I understand Fine Gael’s health spokes- small payment, although the work that was done person, Deputy Twomey, for whom I have great was never fully rewarded. Often the home help respect, avoided the question of whether he, in did significantly more hours than he or she was Government, would stop or reverse the Minister, paid for. Instead of building on that system, Deputy Harney’s private hospital co-location however, we are moving towards the introduction scheme. He was not specific and precise in his of a franchise approach. reply. The website of the Comfort Keepers franchise has a banner that reads “In-home care for seniors Dr. Twomey: The answer is “Yes”. and loved ones”. It continues: People are living longer. Society is becoming Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: If that is the case, more mobile as children are living farther away belated though it is, it must be welcomed. He was from their parents. Two income families are careful in his speech last night to repeatedly becoming the norm so nursing homes and express his support for private medicine. He assisted living centres are bursting at the seams. should listen more carefully to Dr. John Barton While at the same time, an incredible number of Portiuncula Hospital, one of the strongest crit- of elderly people are looking for any means ics of privatisation in our health services and, I available to avoid going into those nursing understand, a would-be party colleague of homes and retirement centres. They want to Deputy Twomey here after the next general remain in their homes. This provides an election. untapped market for owners of a Comfort Kee- I welcome what Deputy Twomey said about pers franchise. ending private hospital co-location schemes. He is obviously supporting the motion. I urge him to The services the company offers include meal oppose the use of tax incentives to promote, as preparation, transport to doctors’ appointments, the motion states, the development of private light housekeeping and, in some cases, personal super-clinics. I have not seen that in Fine Gael care such as bathing, dressing and mobility. A policy so far, but I welcome the party’s support franchise with the company costs around \26,000 for the Labour Party motion which includes that plus establishment costs. The company operates reference. However, another Fine Gael Deputy in America, Canada, Britain, Ireland, Australia, has welcomed the luxury Adare hospital which is New Zealand and Singapore. In highlighting this 639 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 640

[Ms C. Murphy.] supposed to accept this as the best way forward I am questioning the philosophy that drives such but I find that difficult. decisions. We are truly becoming the 53rd state. We are also supposed to accept the closure of While there is much to be admired about Amer- intensive care units in each of the four hospitals ica, its health service is not something to emulate. in the north east and their move to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda. Is that the best Mr. Healy: I support the Labour Party motion. way forward, to send people to a hospital that In addressing the motion, I say shame on the regularly has 10% to 15% of the national trolley Taoiseach, who last week had the audacity to count and appeals to people not to attend blame health service workers for the mess his because it is full to the gills? Professor Drumm Government and Ministers have made of the has said that the people of Monaghan are scare- health service in this country. I can tell the mongering, even though 17 people died when the Taoiseach that health service workers, with whom hospital was taken off call. Thankfully it is back I have worked for 21 years in the acute services, on medical call, although I would like to see it on work above and beyond the call of duty. The surgical call. Taoiseach and Government should place the Tonight’s debate is about public and private blame where it lies — on the shoulders of the hospitals. Before any decision is made, I call on Taoiseach, the Government and the procession of the Government to consider the system operated Ministers for Health and Children over the last by InterHealth Canada, a private company that ten years. builds hospitals for the public health system. This motion calls for the Irish people to be There are models in Canada, the UAE and the entitled to a health service that delivers excel- Turks and Caicos Islands. The company opened lence, quality and efficiency and that financial an NHS hospital in Cheshire on 5 October. means must not be a barrier to receiving the high- est quality of care. A number of areas where An Ceann Comhairle: There are less than two there is a shameful lack of attention must be minutes remaining in the slot. addressed. The BreastCheck programme has not been fully rolled out, particularly in the south. In Mr. J. Breen: I will try to get through my con- south Tipperary there is a long waiting list for tribution as quickly as possible. services such as orthodontics. The standards in the service are totally out of date and huge An Ceann Comhairle: At 7.50 p.m. I must move to the Labour Party. numbers of children cannot avail of it. Their parents are forced to pay thousands of euros for Mr. Connolly: On a point of order, we have their children. I regularly come across elderly only used six minutes and 15 seconds. people looking for hearing aids; the waiting list for a 78 year old man for a hearing aid is 15 An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is getting a months. bonus because the Government side had 30 seconds to spare so the Independent Deputies are Mr. Connolly: I welcome the opportunity to getting the benefit of that time. speak on this motion and I support it. People referred to change for the better earlier. The Mr. J. Breen: Now the Government is in pre- people of Monaghan have not seen change for election mode and the budget is almost upon us, the better, as 10,000 residents who recently took I presume we can expect to see grandiose public to the streets would attest. While this debate is announcements of promises and proposed pro- about public and private hospitals, we in jects aimed at curing all the ills in our health Monaghan are not in a position to reject either service. The reality, unfortunately, is very type. I would accept either and would help to different. identify a site for one. Successive Ministers for Health and Children The recent Teamwork report on hospital in this Government have failed to provide a qual- services in the north east is supposed to be a ity care service for the Irish people. My constitu- national blueprint but the report fails in a number ency of Clare provides as bleak a picture as can of areas. There was no consultation with consult- be found anywhere. This week a Fianna Fa´il ants, staff or GPs, those at the coalface. They Senator announced that a CT scanner would soon were left out of the loop but these are the people be installed in Ennis General Hospital. In June I who are expected to deliver these services. It was asked the Minister when we could expect to see a case of Teamwork knows best. this machine. Despite the usual promise of an We were told by Professor Drumm that Team- early response from the HSE, no reply ever work ignored all previous reports. That was care- materialised. The non-reply has become a fre- less, to put it mildly, or perhaps the group simply quent feature of the HSE. If the scanner is to dusted down a version of the failed British model. arrive, I will welcome it but in early September It is incredible that Teamwork also ignored the same Senator promised that architect’s plans CAWT, the cross-Border health body. We are for Ennis General Hospital would be lodged with 641 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 642

Clare County Council within two weeks but no worked and did not know how to seek infor- such plans have been lodged. mation about it. Opposition spokespersons noted In Clare, under this Government, there are that people will have to incur debt to cover the plans to downgrade Ennis General Hospital’s cost of home care packages because the HSE has accident and emergency department, leaving the not yet got its act together to make home care whole of the county dependent on Limerick for payments. doctor-led accident and emergency services. In Similar problems arise with regard to disabled east Clare there is no 24 hour cover. person’s grant and essential repairs grant. If Any child seeking orthodontic services faces a people had appropriate facilities, they would be trip to Limerick, necessitating extra time off work able to stay in their home and would not attend for a parent who wishes to gain access to this accident and emergency units and hospitals, and service. There is little hope of treatment due to would not regularly contribute to overcrowding the shambolic approach of the HSE in recruiting in our hospitals. The HSE is involved in two orthodontists. But for the goodwill, commitment aspects of the disabled person’s grant. First, it has and efficiency of Dr. Ted McNamara, young a role in the assessments carried out by occu- people in the area would have no orthodontic pational therapists. It may also provide a top-up service at all. grant once a local authority approves a grant. Anyone requiring orthopaedic surgery faces a This would be good if it worked but the HSE will similar fate, having to travel to Tuam, even refuse to award a top-up grant to assist an appli- further away, for assessment. There is then a long cant seeking to have facilities installed to improve wait before treatment. This week I was informed his or her quality of life at home because it waits by the hospital in Tuam that the consultant deal- until a local authority signs off on the initial loan. ing with cases from County Clare has retired and As a result, if the facility sought by the applicant has not been replaced. Consequently, public is deemed to be above the threshold specified in patients from Clare are now an even lower the 2000 regulations, the applicant must try to priority. raise a loan. There are no maternity services in Clare and Senior citizens are not in a position to secure a the maternity hospital in Limerick has a fine new loan of \8,000 or \9,000 but when they apply to extension but no staff to run it. It is time the the HSE for a top-up loan they are informed the Government took strong action. Proper com- application will not be considered until the dis- munity based support centres and teams should abled person’s grant has been signed off by the be established in strategic geographical locations local authority. This means the disabled person’s to limit the time lost before emergency assess- grant cannot be drawn down by the applicant ment and initial treatment are provided. It is time because no builder will take on a job if its costs to change the training culture for surgeons and are not fully covered by the grant. consultants. Shift work must be made part of The same problems arise with the essential their working conditions in order that theatres repairs grant. Senior citizens who wish to stay at can be used seven days per week, including nights home are unable to obtain grants which would and weekends, to eliminate shameful waiting lists. enable them to do so. In addition, no new claims for home help services are being accepted Mr. Wall: I wish to share time with Deputies because of an unresolved industrial dispute. The Burton, Sherlock and Lynch. poor legislation on nursing home subventions An Ceann Comhairle: Is that agreed? Agreed. before the House will not address problems in this area but will create further problems for Mr. Wall: I welcome the motion and congratu- senior citizens who wish to remain at home. late the Labour Party spokesperson on health, At the same time, prime lands in public Deputy McManus, on tabling it. What difference hospital grounds are being sold. In my area, inde- will the Government’s strategy on health make to pendent living units for senior citizens have been constituents who seek assistance in having care provided. Instead of building private hospitals, provided for their loved ones? It will not make would it not be preferable if the HSE made land an iota of a difference to senior citizens because available to provide independent living accom- they will continue to attend accident and emer- modation for senior citizens? This would give gency departments seeking treatment, notwith- them security and comfort in the knowledge that standing statements by Ministers that such people help was close at hand. There is no logic in the should be fined. argument made by the Government side. Unless The Health Service Executive and Minister for we clean up our act as regards providing care and Health and Children have done nothing to facili- supports to senior citizens, the crisis in accident tate home care for senior citizens. At a meeting and emergency departments will persist. on the HSE held in Leinster House 2000 earlier today, I was astonished to hear Fianna Fa´il Party Ms Burton: I thank my colleague, Deputy Deputies describe the home care package as a McManus, for raising this important issue. One of disaster. They could not understand how it the features that mark out a society is how it tre- 643 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 644

[Ms Burton.] evidence, including the New England Journal of ats its poorest members and those in greatest Medicine and the studies carried out in the need, particularly in areas such as health. The United States, show that the quality and out- Government’s approach has been characterised comes of care in an institution, whether publicly by a form of schizophrenia. Fianna Fa´il appears or privately owned, which has a basic framework to want to take a populist approach in which it of providing for the public good, are of a far emphasises health services for everybody whereas higher order than in an institution or hospital the ideology of the Progressive Democrats which has been developed simply and solely to requires that public services be privatised, even if take advantage of tax breaks for buildings. they function well. The mechanism by which the Blanchardstown Hospital has had a great tra- latter party has chosen to do this is to provide dition of care since it was founded in the 1950s. extraordinarily generous tax breaks for people Given the extraordinary population of the area it who invest in the health care industry. is amazing that the hospital has no dedicated ter- The issue is no longer one of health care but tiary facilities for children. Blanchardstown has a one of investment opportunities, property huge and growing population which requires development and the health care industry. services such as visiting consultants and so forth. Labour Party members are not foolish. While we This could be done through public provision and are aware that in today’s economy and in the era not only through a private hospital. of globalisation the health care industry has become global, the issue here is to decide what is Mr. Sherlock: I wish to discuss the Health Act best for Ireland. 2004. This was passed by the Da´il to provide for Last night, the Minister referred to Dean Swift the construction of private health care facilities, founding a hospital at St. Patrick’s Cathedral as a including hospitals and nursing homes, on the private initiative several hundred years ago. The grounds of public hospitals. Fianna Fa´il Ministers truth is that well-off or religiously inclined people and Deputies are implementing this legislation in provided for the common and public good at that the interests of the wealthy. This is being said by time. Dean Swift did not take a punt on an invest- the public. The public is also saying the Fianna ment worth \100 million in the grounds of Fa´il Party is being easily led on this question. Blanchardstown hospital. He was motivated by a It is proposed to build a private hospital on the concern to provide for the poor and indigent in grounds of Cork University Hospital. Contrast Dublin. this with Mallow, where a day procedure unit was Mr. B. Lenihan: He left the money in his will. promised in 2002 and has not yet been provided. Moreover, Mallow General Hospital serves a Ms Burton: The Minister of State probably population of 90,000 to 100,000, with rapid shares my concerns. The Minister alluded to growth in the area. In some instances people must Dean Swift’s involvement in establishing a wait up to two years for public services but con- hospital. It was a private hospital under a chari- sultants will tell patients that if they were private table structure which reflected the fact that he patients they would be treated within one or two was a Protestant clergyman. Like the Rotunda weeks. That is not an exaggeration but a state- Hospital, a number of voluntary hospitals and the ment of fact. religious hospitals founded from the 19th century Despite this, however, I am informed by the onwards by various Catholic religious orders, the Health Service Executive that plans are hospital established by Dean Swift was a private underway to review the provision of acute institution formed for the public good. It is general hospital services in the southern region, important to clarify that point. which includes Mallow. I have made repeated The tax breaks for investors will benefit promi- requests for the terms of reference of that review nent individuals such as Mr. Goodman who has but to no avail. Perhaps the Minister of State will considerable expertise as a trader in cattle and let me have those terms of reference. I am also beef on international markets. Mr. informed that the committee undertaking the 8 o’clock Goodman has amassed a large review will be chaired by a professor who is fortune and is a great businessman. already the subject of an investigation by the Hospital care requires an ethical framework and Higher Education Authority relating to Cork its purpose must be to provide the highest pos- University Hospital. The Minister should think sible standard of long-term public care for the about how that person will emerge from the maximum number of people. The tax breaks apply to buildings; they do not relate to care but investigation being undertaken by the HEA. It to investment in the built structure. The buildings could be a serious matter. must be retained for up to 15 years. After a long More people are being forced into private nurs- debate with the Minister for Finance, he extended ing homes because of the lack of community beds to 15 years the period that the institution, old per- yet the Government and the HSE have made no son’s home, sports injury clinic or hospital must effort to standardise the subvention provided stay as a caring institution. All the international across the country. 645 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 646

Ms Lynch: I have listened to the debate since only will there be private hospitals, but medical last night and clearly Deputy McManus has her staff will be put into our hospitals by private com- finger on the pulse. The reaction to the debate panies. Their only job will be to monitor how has been significant. The reaction from the their particular drug is doing. Government is even more significant. It is like It is outrageous that parents with children as rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. young as 18 months who are diagnosed with type As happened with regard to the child care issue 1 diabetes are being sent home with a syringe and during the last by-election, the Government did an orange and told to practise with them. That is not know there was a problem until it met the not good enough. The outcome for children in people. the Cork area is not good and is worse than the I will speak about the constituency of Cork city outcome for children in the Dublin area. which I and the Labour Party represent. Hope- However, this Minister for Health and Children fully, we will have increased representation after does not believe that anybody outside the Pale the next election. There are many problems with deserves a health service. the health service in Cork city but I will deal with Cork city was promised a new blood trans- three. I received a letter recently from a consult- fusion service building to serve the south. It must ant to whom I had written about an elderly be ten years ago or longer since that promise was gentleman who needed a hip replacement. I will made. Since then there have been two inter- not mention further details. The letter states: national reports on the issue and a fiasco in the blood transfusion service. Only for the good work It is with great regret that I have to say that of a doctor in Cork that problem would not have the number of Orthopaedic Surgeons and staff been recognised. The nurses in the blood trans- at this hospital is the same as it was when I was fusion service in Cork are still operating out of a an SHO. There are no immediate plans for any building where buckets are used to catch the rain increase in surgeons or operating space to deal leaking through the roof. It appears that because with the unacceptable waiting times. the service in Cork discovered the reason for the The only plan articulated in the last few infection of blood products and the transmission months was a referral of 300 (out of 3,000) on of hepatitis C to mothers, it is being crucified and a waiting list to the NTPF. there is no end in sight. When will we get what I think that any specialist grouping that has was recommended by two international panels looked at the situation in Cork would recom- and what the remainder of the country is mend a ratio of 1 per 30,000 which would lead demanding to ensure that the supply of blood in to a total number of 15 Orthopaedic Surgeons this country is safe? Is the Minister of State going to deal with Cork patients. As long ago as 1994 to inform us that everything is rosy in the garden? Comhairle recommended the immediate appointment of 2 surgeons to bring the com- Minister of State at the Department of Health plement to 8. and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): I wish to put the Regrettably I can see no immediate end in record straight in respect of the co-location sight, however I think that representation initiative. It is legitimate to conclude that Labour should be made to the HSE that a ratio of 1 is opposed to the co-location of public and private surgeon per 100,000 is unacceptable in this day hospitals and that Fine Gael is in favour of and age and that the immediate appointment private hospitals, provided they are not co- of additional surgeons and theatre space to located with their public counterparts. That operate on them is immediately required to seems to be the position of the respective parties deal with this problem. offering themselves as an alternative Government. There is a waiting list of four years to get an appointment to see the surgeon. That is the Mr. Rabbitte: We deserve a more serious situation for people who cannot pay and who are response than that. in chronic and severe pain. If the Government Deputies continue to tell us that we have an Mr. B. Lenihan: The Deputy will receive that excellent health service, they should read that response. Labour will not entertain these letter. hospitals and Fine Gael will keep them out of Cork also emerges poorly in reports with the way. regard to type 1 diabetes. Approximately 200 children are being treated for the condition in Ms McManus: We never said that. CUH. Until recently, there was a part-time nurse, part-time consultant, part-time dietician and part- Mr. B. Lenihan: That is my summary of this time psychological service. There are now two debate. nurses, one of whom is being paid for by the In practical terms, this means that both parties private sector. Although this is a great advance are quite happy with a system where 45% of elec- that is gratefully accepted by the parents tive operations in the public hospital, Tallaght, in involved, is this the road we should take? Not Deputy Rabbitte’s constituency are private. The 647 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 648

[Mr. B. Lenihan.] the full cost. This estimate is conservative and Government wants a better deal for public does not take account — in favour of the Govern- patients. We will free up new beds for public ment argument — of the VAT and income tax patients at ten public hospitals and we will pur- that will accrue to the Exchequer during con- chase services for public patients to continue to struction. This rationale is frequently used for reduce waiting times for operations, dialysis and film relief, which has attracted strong support on MRI scans. all sides of the House. There is, therefore, no \2 Deputy Twomey claimed that the co-location billion. Deputy Twomey’s calculations are wrong. initiative will cost \2 billion. He maintains that \1 The Minister published the policy direction and billion in insurance premiums will be transferred supporting documentation relating to this area to the private sector. If \1 billion is being paid by last year. The latter include details of the invest- insurers to public hospitals, that is news to every- ment appraisal framework suggested by Prospec- one, including me, the hospitals, the Oireachtas, tus Consultants for the HSE. I assure the House the Comptroller and Auditor General and the that, in respect of each co-location proposal, a rig- boards of the VHI and BUPA. orous value-for-money assessment will be carried out by the HSE to demonstrate the net benefit to Dr. Twomey: How much money is involved? the State. The Minister has required this of the HSE from the start and no project can proceed Mr. B. Lenihan: The \1 billion paid out by without the value to the State being demon- insurance companies is the total of all their pay- strated first. The National Development Finance ments in respect of tests, bed charges in private Agency is assisting the Department of Health and hospitals, fees for consultants and outpatient fees. Children to ensure that the financial assessment Bed charges in respect of all 2,500 private beds method being applied by the HSE is robust. in public hospitals is only one aspect. If Deputy Our policy is to achieve the best possible care Twomey had read the documentation produced for all people, using the mix of public and private last year in respect of this initiative, he would finance and provision that has been a long-stand- have seen that the income foregone for the 1,000 ing feature of our health services. beds is calculated at approximately \145 million. The Government stated that this income would Dr. Twomey: If the Minster of State is so sure be offset by lease payments to the State. of his information, why has it not been given to The \2 billion to which Deputy Twomey refers Members on this side of the House? includes what he assumes will be a free transfer of State land. There will be no such transfer. The Mr. B. Lenihan: I appeal to the Fine Gael and land will be leased and will earn income for the Labour parties to come together and present the State. Currently, there is a zero return on that people with an honest alternative in respect of land to the State or to the health system. The flow this issue. of money is, therefore, wrong. Many Members previously served on health boards and beheld Dr. Twomey: The Minister of State should be their vast land banks. It is time we took action more honest. and made that land pay a return to the Exchequer and the health service. Mr. B. Lenihan: The Deputy’s party——

Dr. Twomey: Why is it not used more appro- Dr. Twomey: I have been seeking information priately? of this sort for six months and the Minister of State has refused to provide it. He is making it Mr. B. Lenihan: Deputy Burton referred to the up as he goes. Exchequer cost of capital allowances and asked a legitimate question. The Deputy, like the Mini- Mr. B. Lenihan: I have provided the Deputy ster for Health and Children, also referred to with the information this evening. Dean Swift. I am obliged to agree with Deputy Burton in respect of one point, namely, that Dean An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Twomey is tres- Swift left money in his will to St. Patrick’s passing on the time allocated for the Labour Hospital as an act of philanthropy. This was a Party’s reply to the debate. posthumous act of generosity and was not an inter vivos transaction. Mr. B. Lenihan: The Deputy’s party cannot continue to oppose the co-location initiative on Ms McManus: The Minister of State should the basis that private hospitals should be situated bring that matter to the attention of the Minister. elsewhere, while its potential partner in Govern- ment does not want private facilities located Mr. B. Lenihan: In respect of the cost of capital beside their public counterparts. The two parties allowances, we have stated from the outset that are coming from opposite ends of the ideological we can achieve 1,000 new public beds for a tax spectrum. The solution we propose is the only cost of approximately \420 million, less than half practical one of its kind in respect of bed capacity 649 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 650 and the maximum efficiency of hospitals that is queues of people on trolleys. She has failed and available and in the interests of public patients. she is now striking out in an ideological way to sell off scarce public land for the construction of Mr. Rabbitte: I wish to share time with private hospitals. Entrepreneurs — some of them Deputy McManus. in the medical profession — will get a massive I thank Members on all sides of the House who tax break for building private facilities on scarce contributed to this extremely important debate. public land, the effect of which will be to exacer- We have just heard a very mischievous contri- bate the two-tier health service that currently bution from the hybrid Minister, Deputy Brian exists. Lenihan. The trouble with bright people who Her frustration is understandable. She featured have reached the Minister of State’s stage of life in my local newspaper this week, boasting about being elected to the House is that they can be the success in tackling the accident and emer- thrown any type of brief and be asked to argue gency issue in Tallaght Hospital. What actually any side of the case. happened was that the local management of the hospital made provision for 40 extra beds to treat Mr. B. Lenihan: I will take that as a accident and emergency cases in the teeth of compliment. opposition from the Department and the Mini- ster. The Minister is now claiming this as one of Mr. Rabbitte: It is intended as such. the jewels in her sparse crown of achievement. I The Minister of State does not believe a word suspect that the Minister of State knows that this of what he just said. He must recognise that quick fix solution will not work. It is the wrong Deputy McManus has identified an attempt to solution. It is not feasible to implement and it will engineer a major shift in our health care system towards a for profit model. That is the net issue. exacerbate the two-tier health service. It will be The Minister for Health and Children, frustrated costly for the taxpayer and will contribute to the at her failures, is attempting to shift the balance running down of the public health service. In any of the existing system towards a for-profit model event, it will not work because under the legis- and the Minister of State is well aware that this lation that exists in this country, every citizen is will be expensive, inefficient and unfair, and will entitled to a hospital bed. Private patients will not be in the interests of either taxpayers or continue to come through the accident and emer- patients. That is the scale of the issue with which gency system into public beds. The consultants we are faced. The Minister of State is aware of will not evacuate them as their contract entitles the public-private mix in our system and knows them to practice in public hospitals. the history behind the existence of such a mix. He The Minister of State said that 45% of elective is also aware that the motion is not complaining operations in Tallaght Hospital were private. about the traditional public-private mix, rather it That is higher than I thought, but is not surprising is complaining about the fundamental attempted when one thinks about it as the consultants are shift in the provision of health care. incentivised to do precisely that. The Govern- What is happening will undoubtedly exacerbate ment is now set to incentivise them even more. the problems relating to the two-tier health Does the Minister of State think that consultants service that is in place. There is little point in the will evacuate public beds in order to transfer the Minister of State pretending to misunderstand patients across the corridor to the new shiny the motion. There is also little point in him pre- hospital? It will not happen. What will happen tending that he has not heard, on the doorsteps will be that staff will migrate to the private in his constituency, people’s tales of woe, not only service and the public health service will be regarding their overall concern regarding the required to pick up the slack. The private sector crisis in accident and emergency services, trolley will cherry pick the straightforward procedures queues etc., but also in respect of the fundamen- and the complex medical procedures and older tal unfairness of offers being made to constitu- people with multiple problems will be left to the ents, taxpayers or citizens with access to the public health service. We have scarce public land private system to have their treatment fast- and we need that land for the construction of tracked while those in the public system must step-down care and community care, which is part wait indefinitely. In supporting the Minister for of the solution to the accident and emergency Health and Children, the Minister of State will problem. We badly need the provision of more exacerbate that two-tier system and I suspect that beds in acute hospitals. The money should be he knows that is the case. going on these projects and not on incentivising The Minister received a fair wind from this side the private sector with massive tax breaks. of the House. The scale of distress about the qual- I cannot but be impressed with the consultants ity of our health service administration meant that I meet around the country. However, the that people hoped she would be successful in common contract negotiations are dragging on addressing some of the bottlenecks, dealing with interminably and unconscionably long. The exist- the crisis in accident and emergency departments ing contract looks like they wrote it themselves and, in particular, dealing with the problem of and maybe they did. It must be addressed. There 651 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 652

[Mr. Rabbitte.] the Minister and the Minister of State, who is no sign that this Minister has the skill or the defended the crazy scheme of handing over patience to do it. Her predecessor did not even scarce resources at taxpayers’ expense to private try. The general question of fees in the medical investors. Deputy Maloney was a loyal last man profession is another problem. This morning, the standing in defending the Minister, but he is the Taoiseach admitted that the promise of providing Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health 200,000 medical cards had been broken. The and Children. Government created the doctor-only medical This is an act of desperation. The Government card, but only 12,000 have been taken up. It has is facing into a general election and its members not been made known to people that they exist. know that people will ask them on the doorsteps Meanwhile, people go along to their GP and pay what happened to all of the promises. What hap- ever-increasing prices. The cost of seeing a GP pened to the commitment to end the waiting lists? has risen by 97% since 1997. Some GPs have What happened to the 200,000 medical cards? mainly a medical card client base, but others have The accident and emergency crisis still lumbers the opposite. Some GPs treat people for nothing on. The HSE produced figures today which show while others do the opposite. We all know of that 200 people are on trolleys, 62 of them waiting parents who are afraid to visit the GP because for over 24 hours, with 24 of them waiting even they cannot afford another fee. Until some order longer. That is unacceptable, but that is the is imposed, there is no reason not to resort to a record. The amendment put forward by the maximum prices order, like for many other pro- Government shows just how threadbare its stand- fessional fees. ing is on the issue. It talks about HIQA and about Instead of addressing any of these issues that regulating nursing homes. None of these things go to the heart of why we have ongoing problems has been done, even though time and again we in the health service, the Government is deter- have asked the Government to release the legis- mined to exacerbate the two-tier health service, lation so that it can be debated in this House and to dispose of valuable, scarce public land to the to produce the regulatory framework that is private sector, and to engage in the sophistry that urgently required to ensure that people are we will continue to own the hospitals. We will do protected. nothing of the kind. If the private owners decide I spoke today to the mother of Michelle Tallon, to go to the Middle East and advertise for a mentally handicapped young woman who lost patients at an economic rent, there is nothing the her life in a hospital. The decision at the inquest Government can do about it. If they decide to was that death was due to medical misadventure. turn the hospital into a supermarket, there is This is one patient’s tragedy. This woman does nothing the Government can do about it. Once a not know where to turn. There is no ombudsman scarce public asset is disposed, then that is it. or proper regulatory framework for public Further division will be created, staff will be hospitals or public nursing home beds. None of induced to enter the private sector and the public the commitment made by the Taoiseach in the sector will be left with the difficult areas. That is aftermath of Leas Cross has been delivered. why this debate is critical. The people have not Instead there is a proposal to which the Minister yet woken up to the fact that the Minister for is committed, to privatise what she can within the Health and Children is trying to engineer a funda- health service. mental shift in our health care system to for-profit It is not good for the health service and it is health care provision. That is not in the interests not good for the majority of patients to have this of our people. kind of demarcation and separation and the insti- tutionalisation of a two-tier system. It is a squan- Ms McManus: I thank my Labour Party col- dering of an opportunity and the Minister of State leagues for their thoughtful contributions to this knows it. He knows that we deserve better. Those debate. I also thank Fine Gael Deputies and of us who are sick, ailing and elderly deserve Deputies from the Technical Group. However, I much better from a Government that has not would most of all like to thank the Fianna Fa´il delivered on its promises and is setting out to backbenchers for their contributions. Their destroy the best in our health service. Shame on united silence was very telling. They did not you. speak about the privatisation agenda and it is clear they are more in touch with the people than Amendment put. 653 Health Services: 25 October 2006. Motion (Resumed) 654

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 71; Nı´l 58.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Jacob, Joe. Ahern, Michael. Keaveney, Cecilia. Ahern, Noel. Kelleher, Billy. Andrews, Barry. Kelly, Peter. Ardagh, Sea´n. Killeen, Tony. Blaney, Niall. Kirk, Seamus. Brady, Johnny. Kitt, Tom. Brady, Martin. Lenihan, Brian. Brennan, Seamus. Lenihan, Conor. Browne, John. McDowell, Michael. Callanan, Joe. McEllistrim, Thomas. Callely, Ivor. McGuinness, John. Carey, Pat. Moloney, John. Carty, John. Moynihan, Donal. Collins, Michael. Moynihan, Michael. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. Mulcahy, Michael. Cowen, Brian. Nolan, M. J. Cregan, John. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Cullen, Martin. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Curran, John. O’Connor, Charlie. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Dea, Willie. Dempsey, Noel. O’Donnell, Liz. Dennehy, John. O’Donovan, Denis. Devins, Jimmy. O’Flynn, Noel. Ellis, John. O’Keeffe, Batt. Fahey, Frank. O’Malley, Fiona. Finneran, Michael. Power, Peter. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Sexton, Mae. Fleming, Sea´n. Smith, Michael. Fox, Mildred. Treacy, Noel. Glennon, Jim. Wallace, Dan. Hanafin, Mary. Wallace, Mary. Harney, Mary. Walsh, Joe. Haughey, Sea´n. Wilkinson, Ollie. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Woods, Michael. Hoctor, Ma´ire.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. McGinley, Dinny. Boyle, Dan. McGrath, Finian. Breen, Pat. McGrath, Paul. Broughan, Thomas P. McHugh, Paddy. Bruton, Richard. McManus, Liz. Burton, Joan. Murphy, Gerard. Connolly, Paudge. Naughten, Denis. Costello, Joe. Neville, Dan. Crawford, Seymour. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Crowe, Sea´n. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Cuffe, Ciara´n. O’Dowd, Fergus. Deasy, John. O’Keeffe, Jim. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Shea, Brian. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Sullivan, Jan. English, Damien. Pattison, Seamus. Enright, Olwyn. Penrose, Willie. Ferris, Martin. Perry, John. Gilmore, Eamon. Rabbitte, Pat. Gormley, John. Ring, Michael. Gregory, Tony. Ryan, Eamon. Hayes, Tom. Ryan, Sea´n. Healy, Seamus. Sherlock, Joe. Higgins, Joe. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Higgins, Michael D. Stagg, Emmet. Hogan, Phil. Stanton, David. Kenny, Enda. Timmins, Billy. Lynch, Kathleen. Twomey, Liam. McCormack, Pa´draic. Upton, Mary. McEntee, Shane. Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Stagg and Neville.

Amendment declared carried. Question put: “That the motion, as amended, be agreed to.” 655 Message from 25 October 2006. Select Committee 656

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 70; Nı´l, 57.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Jacob, Joe. Ahern, Michael. Keaveney, Cecilia. Ahern, Noel. Kelleher, Billy. Andrews, Barry. Kelly, Peter. Ardagh, Sea´n. Killeen, Tony. Blaney, Niall. Kirk, Seamus. Brady, Johnny. Kitt, Tom. Brady, Martin. Lenihan, Brian. Brennan, Seamus. Lenihan, Conor. Browne, John. McDowell, Michael. Callanan, Joe. McEllistrim, Thomas. Callely, Ivor. McGuinness, John. Carey, Pat. Moloney, John. Carty, John. Moynihan, Donal. Collins, Michael. Moynihan, Michael. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. Mulcahy, Michael. Cowen, Brian. Nolan, M.J. Cregan, John. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Cullen, Martin. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Curran, John. O’Connor, Charlie. de Valera, Sı´le. O’Dea, Willie. Dempsey, Noel. O’Donnell, Liz. Dennehy, John. O’Donovan, Denis. Devins, Jimmy. O’Flynn, Noel. Ellis, John. O’Keeffe, Batt. Finneran, Michael. O’Malley, Fiona. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Power, Peter. Fleming, Sea´n. Sexton, Mae. Fox, Mildred. Smith, Michael. Glennon, Jim. Treacy, Noel. Hanafin, Mary. Wallace, Dan. Harney, Mary. Wallace, Mary. Haughey, Sea´n. Walsh, Joe. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Wilkinson, Ollie. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Woods, Michael.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. McGinley, Dinny. Boyle, Dan. McGrath, Finian. Breen, Pat. McGrath, Paul. Broughan, Thomas P. McHugh, Paddy. Bruton, Richard. McManus, Liz. Burton, Joan. Murphy, Gerard. Connolly, Paudge. Naughten, Denis. Costello, Joe. Neville, Dan. Crawford, Seymour. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Crowe, Sea´n. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Cuffe, Ciara´n. O’Dowd, Fergus. Deasy, John. O’Keeffe, Jim. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Shea, Brian. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Sullivan, Jan. English, Damien. Pattison, Seamus. Enright, Olwyn. Penrose, Willie. Ferris, Martin. Perry, John. Gilmore, Eamon. Rabbitte, Pat. Gormley, John. Ring, Michael. Gregory, Tony. Ryan, Eamon. Hayes, Tom. Ryan, Sea´n. Healy, Seamus. Sherlock, Joe. Higgins, Joe. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Higgins, Michael D. Stagg, Emmet. Hogan, Phil. Stanton, David. Kenny, Enda. Twomey, Liam. Lynch, Kathleen. Upton, Mary. McCormack, Pa´draic. Wall, Jack. McEntee, Shane.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Stagg and Neville.

Question declared carried. Message from Select Committee. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Select Com- mittee on Communications, Marine and Natural 657 Asylum Support 25 October 2006. Services 658

Resources has completed its consideration of the Minister of State determine whether this is an National Oil Reserve Agency Bill 2006 and has appropriate facility? made amendments thereto. The facility does not have a single balcony or open area. When one walks out the back door of Adjournment Debate. the hostel one is in a builders’ providers yard on a main road, which seems most inappropriate. I ———— have noticed that colleagues who might be elec- tion candidates for some of the Opposition par- Asylum Support Services. ties have raised fears about the facility. I agree with some of their concerns. It would be more Mr. Curran: I welcome the opportunity to raise appropriate to locate such a facility elsewhere this matter on the Adjournment. It concerns the because its current location will be of no benefit conversion in Clondalkin village of what was an to asylum seekers or the local community. It hotel to an accommodation facility for asylum should be abandoned. seekers. In recent days, concerns have been It is most frustrating that neither I nor other raised over the fact that this hotel was converted local representatives, including the Minister for without the knowledge of the local authority, Health and Children, were informed of this pro- councillors or Members of this House who rep- ject in advance. It was up and run- resent the area. A silent deal seems to have been 9 o’clock ning before we knew about it. When done without due regard to the local community. representatives from the Department I have mentioned the matter to the Minister who of Justice, Equality and Law Reform attend the indicated to me that details of the arrangement Committee of Public Accounts tomorrow to dis- were unknown to him in advance. The deal has cuss certain other sites which have been acquired, effectively converted an 80-room hotel in they will refer to the Department’s openness. Clondalkin village into accommodation for up to However, there was no openness in this instance 250 asylum seekers. and absolutely no consultation or advance notice While I fully understand and appreciate that was given of the impact on the community. We such accommodation is necessary, in this part- are most disappointed but I believe the Minister icular instance the location is most inappropriate. was personally unaware of the decision because I It is inappropriate to try to locate 60 to 80 meet him regularly and, if he had known the families in a hotel with no balconies, not an inch facts, he would have revealed them to me. of green space and in an environment where all I urge the Minister to halt further work on this the local schools are short of capacity and have project until we have engaged in meaningful waiting lists for pupils. This year, one of the negotiations, which will be necessary if the hostel schools in Clondalkin village had to arrange for is to become part of our community. In the additional capacity in a third classroom. interests of the community and the possible The asylum hostel, as it is referred to locally, future residents of the institution, it cannot just has come into being without anybody in the com- be thrown into Clondalkin. munity having been contacted or consulted. The long-term needs of asylum seekers in the hostel Mr. C. Lenihan: I appreciate Deputy Curran’s have not been considered and neither have the decision to raise this matter on behalf of his con- needs of the community. There is a strong sense stituents in Clondalkin. The reception and inte- of disappointment that the Department of gration agency, RIA, is responsible for the Justice, Equality and Law Reform, which is ulti- accommodation of asylum seekers and is obliged mately responsible, has not become engaged in to provide sufficient accommodation at all times the matter in any sense. Ultimately, it will be a to cater for the needs of persons who apply to the matter for the local authority and probably An State for recognition as refugees under the 1951 Bord Pleana´la to determine if the significant Geneva Convention. The service provided by the change in use from a hotel to a long-term residen- RIA is demand driven and must be capable of tial facility requires planning permission. expanding and contracting in line with the Although the change was significant, there has numbers arriving into the State. The task of pro- been no consultation with the local community. viding accommodation presents considerable I have a number of questions for the Minister challenges to the RIA, which must continuously of State. Can he postpone any further expansion and actively manage its accommodation portfolio of the facility until the community, the local auth- in regard to overall numbers, geographic location ority and local representatives, including myself, and value for money. Changes in asylum policy are consulted about future developments? Will can also place new demands on the geographical discussions be entered into with the local auth- spread of accommodation. ority to see if planning permission is required for The RIA’s portfolio currently consists of 55 such a change of use? Will discussions be held centres accommodating 5,224 persons throughout with the Department of Education and Science to the State. The agency provides accommodation determine what will be the requirements, if any, to asylum seekers primarily by way of direct pro- of those residing in this asylum facility? Will the vision, that is on a full board basis, as per a 659 Sugar Beet 25 October 2006. Industry 660

[Mr. C. Lenihan.] lum seekers access many State services on exactly Government decision on this matter. A small the same basis as the indigenous population. amount of self-catering accommodation is avail- The Ta´naiste would be concerned if the open- able and prioritised for persons with medical ing of this centre has generated fears and con- needs. The current accommodation portfolio is cerns within the local community. This centre will made up of seven State owned direct provision accommodate some 65 families who have sought centres, 41 commercially owned direct provision the protection of the State. The Deputy can be centres and nine commercially owned self-cater- assured that the RIA will work with all the stake- ing centres. Under the commercial arrangements, holders to address any fears that may arise. Fur- the RIA does not acquire the property in the thermore, it should be noted that the Ta´naiste’s sense of purchasing it but contracts the properties constituency contains five accommodation for a fixed period in order to provide accom- centres for asylum seekers operating under the modation and board for asylum seekers at fixed aegis of the RIA which accommodate some 320 prices. persons. There is no question, therefore, of I reiterate that the RIA operates within a con- Clondalkin or any other area being expected to tinuously changing dynamic and decisions on shoulder a disproportionate burden in terms of accommodation are made on the basis of the the State meeting its obligations to asylum needs and requirements facing the agency at any seekers. time. The agency operates with a view to achiev- I note the Deputy’s request for a postponement ing the best value for money for the Department of the expansion so that the local authority and and the State. The Deputy should appreciate that the Department of Education and Science can be demand driven organisations such as the RIA consulted. I will not make a final judgment on the have to make decisions in real time and on the appropriateness of this facility and Deputy basis of available information. A delicate balance Curran will be aware that the Ta´naiste is open to has to be struck between long-term plans and any issues the Deputy wishes to raise. I am sure budgetary responsibilities. As part of this active the RIA, along with all State agencies, will be portfolio management process and under fully compliant with their obligations to the local responsibilities laid on all public bodies by the authority. If an issue arises with regard to plan- national public procurement framework, the RIA ning permission for change of use, I am sure the advertised in the national press on 10 July 2006 agency will take the appropriate action. for expressions of interest from persons with regard to providing accommodation and ancillary Sugar Beet Industry. services for asylum seekers. It was in this context Mr. M. Moynihan: In the short time available, that an offer of accommodation in Clondalkin I wish to raise the refusal of Greencore to honour was made to the agency. The Ta´naiste also the Labour Court’s recommendation on paying pointed out that the property in question was the correct redundancy settlement to the former assessed by the RIA as suitable and that an workers of Irish Sugar. Greencore’s refusal is one arrangement was entered into without reference of the most despicable acts to have been commit- to him. ted by a multinational company. It is fundamental In this instance, the urgent need for a new to the partnership agreements which have served facility in Dublin, coupled with the commercial this country well for the past 20 years that Labour sensitivities surrounding the acquisition of the Court recommendations are honoured. If property prevented the RIA from engaging in workers are to sign up to future partnerships, the any advance consultation process with local State must do all it can to ensure Greencore hon- service providers. As soon as it was possible to ours its agreement. do so the RIA contacted, and is currently liaising The fourth clarification from the Labour Court with, relevant Departments and agencies to over- on 17 October clearly states that the basis for come any initial difficulties in this regard. Dis- payment of redundancy was agreed by the former cussions have opened with the relevant support workers of Irish Sugar. Greencore issued a state- groups and service providers and will intensify ment alleging the former workers would be paid over the coming weeks. on the double but that is absolute nonsense. As regards the running of the centres, this is Former Irish Sugar workers have always said they largely done through partnership initiatives with would have accepted an adverse decision by the the commercial sector through fixed term con- Labour Court, so it behoves all Members to tracts for the provision of accommodation and ensure Greencore pays the recommended redun- ancillary services. These contracts include all day- dancy settlement. Greencore is taking the State to-day requirements, including full-board accom- to court over the EU restructuring package but modation, heating, lighting, toiletries, laundry, not one cent of this should be paid to the com- housekeeping, cleaning materials and security. pany unless it honours the Labour Court recom- Such a contract applies to the new centre at mendations regarding its former workers. These Clondalkin. The Deputy will be aware that asy- workers have gone to considerable efforts to 661 Sugar Beet 25 October 2006. Industry 662 build up the company, so they deserve expressed disappointment that the company was recompense. unable to accept the invitation to attend a further meeting in a final attempt to resolve the impasse. Mr. Ferris: In its decision, the Labour Court As mentioned by the other speakers, the court expressed its disappointment that the company also stated that for the avoidance of doubt it was unable to accept its invitation to enter a wished to state that it was intended in the recom- further meeting in a final attempt to resolve the mendations that the staff on annualised salaries impasse. That statement was made in response to should have their ex gratia lump sum calculated clarifications which were sought by the workers. by reference to their full unadjusted salary applic- I find it almost incomprehensible that Greencore able at the date of redundancy plus 20% as pro- could refuse to comply with a Labour Court vided in the agreement between the company and decision when it has the Minister for Agriculture the union. and Food as its “golden share” director. How can I have received a copy of a document issued the Government have any credibility if it refuses by the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, following her to compel Greencore to deliver on what is agreement allow sugar production to cease. The expected and what is a reasonable Labour Court document clearly referred to compensation for decision? redundancy payments in line with recom- Today in Portlaoise, Pat Guilfoyle of the mendations of the Labour Court. If the Minister TEEU and Gerry McCormack of SIPTU met Joe stated that redundancy would be paid in accord- Walsh from Greencore and Sea´n Brady from ance with the Labour Court recommendation, she Irish Sugar in an attempt to resolve the issue. Was has an obligation in that regard. the Minister aware of the meeting? Is she aware that as a result of that meeting the two gentlemen Minister of State at the Department of from Greencore and Irish Sugar told the workers’ Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. representatives that they are not prepared to hon- Killeen): I thank the Deputies for raising this our the Labour Court ruling? They also said it matter. was the same decision as delivered on 29 July to In March 2006, Greencore Group plc which the Minister was party, which is that the announced its intention to cease sugar production workers will not get their full entitlements. Where in Ireland completely. The announcement fol- does the Minister stand on the matter? Is she pre- lowed an agreement on 24 November 2005 by EU pared to exercise her rights as the holder of the Agriculture Ministers on a reform plan for the golden share to pressurise Greencore to give in sugar industry involving cuts in the support price to the adjudication of the Labour Court. We need of sugar by 36% over four years. The company this clarification. duly closed the remaining factory at Mallow in At present, 160 workers are out of work and May 2006, with 324 redundancies, and applied for living on social welfare assistance. However, EU restructuring aid in July. Greencore has assumed a public asset built for The agreement on reform of the EU sugar the workers, farmers and construction workers in regime reached by the Agriculture and Fisheries the company in both Carlow and Mallow. We had Council in November 2005 provided for a scheme a vibrant industry that sustained rural Ireland for for the restructuring of the sugar industry. Under more than 80 years with plants in Thurles, Tuam, the scheme, aid is provided for three groups: the Carlow and Mallow. This industry has been sold processor, beet growers and machinery contrac- off by a multinational for its own profit and tors. For Ireland, the aid available under the benefit. The Minister for Agriculture and Food scheme is approximately \145 million. Drawing holds the golden share for the sole purpose of down of the restructuring aid is conditional on protecting the rights of the workers, producers the submission by the processor of an aid appli- and contractors. Where does the Minister stand? cation to the Minister for Agriculture and Food, I want to know, as do the workers and producers including a detailed restructuring plan for the who demand an answer and justice. That justice industry. The restructuring plan includes, among can only come about when everybody gets his and other matters, “a social plan detailing the actions her rightful entitlements. Any company that planned in particular with respect to retraining, ignores the Labour Court is a disgrace. redeployment and early retirement of the work- force concerned”. Mr. Sherlock: The question relates to the The Government at its meeting on 12 July 2006 measures the Government plans to take to ensure made certain decisions on the implementation of that Greencore workers’ rights to redundancy the restructuring aid. The Government decided terms based on full unadjusted salary applicable on the amount to be reserved for growers and at the date of redundancy plus 20% as provided contractors and provided an illustrative break- in the agreement between the company and the down of the potential allocation of the aid to be union are upheld. Greencore sent a letter to the followed by Greencore in preparing its restruc- Labour Court stating it was not in a position to turing plan, including a figure of \28.4 million for come back to the court. On 17 October the court employee redundancy payments. This figure as 663 Sugar Beet 25 October 2006. Industry 664

[Mr. Killeen.] payment from the company. The remaining well as others in the Government decision was workers are disputing the company’s non-statu- based on information supplied previously by tory offer. The trade unions representing workers Greencore. These decisions, which were pub- who have not accepted the redundancy terms on lished by way of press release by the Minister for offer, SIPTU and TEEU, balloted their members Agriculture and Food on the same day, are now on industrial action. the subject of judicial review proceedings Industrial action was scheduled to begin on 4 instituted by Greencore. October 2006, but was suspended following a Greencore duly submitted an aid application in request from the Labour Court for the parties to July 2006 committing to dismantle the Mallow return to the court for further clarification of its factory fully. The application stated that with recommendation. The trade unions indicated that regard to redundancy payments it was honouring they would attend the court, but the company the Labour Court recommendation. The appli- declined the offer. I very much regret the decision cation was approved subject to the outcome of taken by the company in this regard. judicial review proceedings instituted by The Labour Court issued a third clarification Greencore. of its recommendation on 17 October 2006. The The company and the trade unions entered content of this clarification is confidential to the negotiations regarding the redundancy package. parties and has not been published by the court. However, agreement was not reached on a The company has indicated it is not prepared to number of issues and these were referred to the alter its offer. Similarly, the trade unions have not Labour Court. On 26 April 2006, the Labour changed their position and are not prepared to Court made a recommendation regarding the accept the company’s existing offer. redundancy terms for Irish Sugar workers at the The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Mallow plant. The recommendation provided Employment, Deputy Martin, has met represen- that redundancy should be five weeks’ pay per tatives of both the trade unions and the company year of service, where a week’s pay would be and urged them to resolve their differences and defined as actual finishing salary, excluding over- to avail of the dispute settling machinery of the time, plus statutory redundancy entitlement, plus State, as necessary. I have also met union rep- a bonus payment for an orderly wind-down. The resentatives to discuss this matter. The national unions were not satisfied with the method for cal- implementation body has worked with the parties culating finishing salary used by the company. concerned to seek to identify an agreed pro- The court issued two clarifications in May, which cedure to resolve the issue in dispute. Ireland’s failed to achieve a resolution to the dispute. system of industrial relations is essentially volun- The Redundancy Payments Acts 1967 to 2003 tary in nature and responsibility for the resolution oblige employers to pay redundant employees of industrial disputes is a matter for the parties what is known as “statutory redundancy entitle- involved. The system of industrial relations in ments”. The amount payable is related to the employee’s length of service and his or her gross Ireland is designed to help and support parties in weekly earnings. The entitlement is calculated on their efforts to resolve their differences rather the basis of two weeks’ pay for every year of than imposing a solution on the parties to an service, plus a bonus week, subject to a maximum industrial dispute. wage ceiling of \600 per week. Periods of lay-off Where the Labour Court operates as an indus- or sickness of more than six months are not trial relations tribunal in trade disputes, its included in the calculation in respect of the last recommendations are not enforceable. In such three years of employment. cases, the court hears both sides and then issues Employers who pay their workers their statu- a recommendation setting out its opinion on the tory redundancy entitlement and give them dispute and the terms on which it considers the proper notice of being made redundant — at least dispute should be settled. While these recom- two weeks — are entitled to a 60% rebate from mendations are not binding on the parties con- the Department of Enterprise, Trade and cerned, the parties are expected to give serious Employment, financed by the social insurance consideration to the court’s recommendation. As fund. In cases where an employer fails to make the Labour Court is a court of last resort in the statutory redundancy payments, the Department industrial relations process, it is expected that the steps in and pays the full amount directly to the parties come to the process in good faith and are employees from the social insurance fund, and consequently prepared to accept the outcome, then seeks recovery of the amount paid from namely, the Labour Court’s recommendation. the employer. While responsibility for the settlement of a dis- I am assured that all former workers at the pute ultimately rests with the parties themselves, Mallow factory have received their statutory I urge the company to reconsider its decision not redundancy entitlements. I understand a signifi- to attend the Labour Court for talks. The court cant number of former workers have accepted the remains available to the parties to advance a res- company’s redundancy offer and have received olution to the dispute. The experience and 665 Motor 25 October 2006. Taxation 666 expertise of the Labour Court offer the best cated for this purpose instead of the \50 million avenue for resolving the issue under dispute. needed. This is where the Minister can bridge the gap, by obtaining the money. Everybody should Motor Taxation. share the pain of improving our roads and no motorists should be on the road unless they pay Mr. O’Dowd: This is a very important matter tax — it is as simple as that. The Minister has and I thank the Office of the Ceann Comhairle failed in his duty in this regard. for allowing me to debate it. It is desirable to have an automatic fine in cases Last year it was estimated that one in ten where one does not renew one’s tax disc, pro- motorists were guilty of motor tax evasion. That vided the car is not sold or scrapped because it is is many people and results in a lot of money being at the end of its life. We need action from the lost to the Exchequer. The Department estimates Government. It is reneging on its promise to run that outstanding motor tax in October of last year the country properly and provide money for amounted to \40 million, which is a very signifi- roads. The outstanding sum of \40 million is cant sum. The Minister promised at the time that almost equal to the sum wasted on electronic vot- he would effect immediate and urgent anti-eva- ing machines, therefore, the Government cannot sion measures, but we see no sign of these. In March 2005, in a debate in the Da´il, the Minister be taken seriously. It is not doing its job in regard for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said he to this matter. would push for the introduction of technology to detect motor tax dodgers automatically, but I see Minister of State at the Department of the no sign of that either. Environment, Heritage and Local Government Let me outline some facts. The Garda’s annual (Mr. N. Ahern): I am taking this matter on behalf report for 2005 states proceedings were com- of my colleague, the Minister for the Envir- menced against 34,000 people under road traffic onment, Heritage and Local Government. The legislation for not paying road tax, failing to dis- raising of this issue provides an opportunity to play tax discs and other tax registration offences. outline to the House the initiatives which have The 2001 survey entitled Motor Tax, Motor been introduced to combat motor tax evasion. Insurance and NCT Compliance, which was made The administration of the motor tax service has available to the Minister, stated that, of moving been improved substantially in recent years with vehicles stopped over a given period, 15% had no the implementation of the national vehicle and tax discs displayed; of HGVs stopped, 33% had driver computer system, NVDF, which facilitates no motor tax — I could not believe this; and of real-time transaction processing by all the motor motor cycles, 26% did not display a current tax tax outlets throughout the country. Data from the disc. The figures pertaining to vans and cars were NVDF are supplied to the Garda Sı´ocha´na for 18% and 14%, respectively. motor tax enforcement purposes. This is a very serious issue which requires The NVDF has also facilitated the introduction immediate resolution. The Minister, Deputy of customer-focused initiatives such as on-line Roche, referred on his website to the raising of motor tax renewal and the taxing of new vehicles this matter in the Da´il tonight. Although I for the first time over the Internet. This initiative acknowledge the presence of the Minister of has been received very favourably by the motor- State, Deputy Noel Ahern, I am sorry the Mini- ing public. The statistics show that over 30% of ster is not present. He should answer in the Da´il all motorists eligible to do so pay their motor tax for not honouring the promises he made and for on-line, with a 50% take-up in Dublin. The tax- refusing to collect taxes. ation system is now more efficient and accessible I have a solution, which is used in the United and local motor tax offices can effect a faster Kingdom, where on renewal of one’s tax disc, a turnaround of tax applications submitted to them. notice is sent automatically. In the United In the year to the end of September 2006, Kingdom one is told that if one does not renew motor tax receipts show a 10% increase as against the disc within the specified period, one will be the same period in 2005. As this 10% is signifi- issued immediately with a fine in excess of \100. cantly greater than the increase in the national We do not want the Garda to stop all the cars vehicle fleet, which amounts to 6%, and bearing throughout the country because that is not in mind that there was no increase in motor tax reasonable, nor do we want to waste our time. rates for the period in question, it suggests a very Rather, we want new digital technology to read positive performance in terms of motor tax com- number-plates of vehicles that move at speed and pliance. This is very much influenced by high pro- check whether their owners pay their tax and file Garda enforcement, particularly in recent insurance. times through the operation of the traffic corps Ultimately the Minister must stop this scandal. in various road traffic and safety initiatives. The Our non-national roads, country roads, are increased levels of enforcement are also reflected underfunded and falling apart. An extra \50 mil- in the increased levels of payment of motor tax lion per year is required to make them safe. In arrears. In the year to the end of September 2006 the budget last year, only \31 million was allo- almost \19 million was collected, representing an 667 The 25 October 2006. Adjournment 668

[Mr. N. Ahern.] and this should be realised for each future year. increase of almost 11% over the same period in It is proposed to issue reminder tax notices and 2005. follow up owners of new vehicles which remain The last survey on motor tax compliance dating untaxed after they have been registered with the from 2001, as mentioned by Deputy O’Dowd, Revenue Commissioners. estimated a persistent evasion level of 4.6%, that To facilitate earlier taxation following the is, the percentage of vehicles never taxed. An change of ownership of vehicles, we are introduc- ing a system whereby approved motor dealers evasion level of 4.6% equates to a revenue loss of may notify ownership changes in respect of \40 million in current terms. However, as I have vehicles purchased and sold by them over the indicated, we feel the current position is signifi- Internet. This e-government project is in progress cantly better. and will be operational in July or August 2007. Some measures that have been introduced or Arrangements have been made to issue motor are in the pipeline contribute in themselves to tax renewal and reminder notices earlier to facili- enforcement of motor tax obligations. For tate earlier taxing, and to reduce the period of instance, the Garda may impound vehicles in “grace” whereby motor tax renewal applications respect of which motor tax has not been paid. The are tolerated for up to a month after the disc recent Road Traffic Act reduced the period of expires. non-payment from three to two continuous We are also taking action to reduce the incid- months. Other enforcement initiatives are being ence of “non-use” declarations in support of a developed by us in consultation with the Garda. period where motor tax has not been paid, com- monly referred to as “gapping”. Follow-up action by the Department in con- I am grateful for this opportunity to inform the junction with local motor tax offices has taken House about the manner in which we are tackling place in regard to under-declarations of weight motor tax evasion and the evidence of success we for heavy goods vehicles, in particular articulated are already achieving in this important area. tractor units and their drawing components. The NVDF analysis indicates that an additional \1.1 The Da´il adjourned at 9.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. million in motor tax was collected in the past year on Thursday, 26 October 2006. 669 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 670

Written Answers.

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The following are questions tabled by Members for written response and the ministerial replies as received on the day from the Departments [unrevised].

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Questions Nos. 1 to 13, inclusive, answered tutional architecture of both the UN and the EU. orally. I do not believe that such changes are likely. Article 4 of the UN Charter provides that UN Questions Nos. 14 to 74, inclusive, resubmitted. membership is open only to States. All EU Member States are also UN members. The Com- Questions Nos. 75 to 81, inclusive, answered mission, in common with representatives of other orally. regional organisations, has observer status. The Commission can speak at UN meetings within its UN Representation. competencies, normally in the trade and develop- ment cooperation areas. 82. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Foreign The question of EU representation at the UN, Affairs if his attention has been drawn to a state- in particular in the Security Council, was most ment made by the UN’s Deputy Secretary recently discussed in the context of negotiations General to the effect that he believes the Euro- on the EU’s Constitutional Treaty. However pean Commission will in future represent the EU there was no agreement to go beyond the in the United Nations as the voice of the Euro- arrangements set out in Article 19 of the Treaty pean block worldwide; and if he will give a com- on European Union, which provides that mitment to resist such effort to diminish this Member States shall coordinate their action in State’s right to its own independent voice in inter- international organisations and at international national affairs and in the UN. [34513/06] conferences and shall uphold the common posi- tions in such forums. Even if there had been Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I agreement to go further, I cannot imagine the am aware that Mr. Mark Malloch Brown, the UN Member States collectively ceding their role in Deputy-Secretary-General, during a recent visit foreign policy to the Commission. The current to Brussels reportedly expressed the view that the position is that the Presidency speaks on behalf European Commission might in future represent of the EU at UN meetings where the Member the EU in the UN General Assembly. I under- States agree and there is a united EU position. stand that he said this in response to a question Ireland and other Member States contribute to and the exact scope of his comment is not clear. the drafting of such statements. This allows the I would be surprised if the interpretation European Union to project our common interests advanced by the Deputy were accurate. In any and values forcefully at the UN. However it is not event I am sure that Mr. Malloch Brown’s inten- always possible or appropriate to have common tion was to stimulate debate. As I know from my EU statements and on such occasions Ireland and own dealings with him, including in November other Member States address UN meetings and 2005, when he made a thought-provoking address conferences in their national capacity. At the to a Seminar organised by my Department with General Debate in the General Assembly indi- the Royal Irish Academy (RIA) to mark the Fifti- vidual Member States speak — as I did on behalf eth Anniversary of Ireland’s UN membership, of Ireland last month — but there is also a Presi- Mr. Malloch Brown is very ready to speculate dency statement. creatively about long-term issues. The UN occupies a central place in our foreign To give effect to any such role for the Com- policy. I could not envisage a situation whereby mission would require major changes in the insti- an Irish Government would forego its right to 671 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 672

[Mr. D. Ahern.] tiations, Ireland believes that it is important for have its representatives speak at UN meetings, the Union to adhere to the commitments given either to the EU Commission or to any other to Turkey by successive European Councils. It is body, but I would be very surprised if this were essential also that Turkey should fulfil its obli- ever seriously proposed. gations, including the full implementation of the As regards the Security Council, there is no Ankara Protocol. Ireland expects Turkey to com- serious prospect of agreement on a single EU ply with the requirement to open its ports to ves- seat. I cannot envisage either the UK or France sels from all EU Member States, including the agreeing to abandon their status as Permanent Republic of Cyprus. Failure to do so will have Members. Moreover, at present three other EU inevitable consequences for the progress of the Members are present on the Council as non-per- accession negotiations. manent members — Denmark, Greece and Slovakia — and the multiplicity of voices Nuclear Non-Proliferation. reinforces the overall impact of the European perspective. 84. Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs his view of the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty of which Ireland was an author in view of Maritime Rights. the recent reported nuclear test by North Korea; 83. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Minister the actions which will now be taken in this regard, for Foreign Affairs his views on the Turkish auth- in particular actions by the New Agenda group; orities refusal to dock to a boat (details supplied) and if he will make a statement on the matter. on 29 June 2006 in violation of international laws [34500/06] of the sea, as part of its continual campaign to impose unilateral restrictions on Cypriot vessels 93. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Foreign since 1987 and to deny rights of a sovereign EU Affairs the position in relation to the recent State, despite its membership negotiations with nuclear test conducted by North Korea; the the EU; and if he will make a statement on the Government’s reaction to this test and to matter. [34564/06] reported uranium enrichment in that country; the sanctions which the international community pro- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): poses against the Government of that country; his The issue of access to Turkish ports for Cypriot views on whether a diplomatic approach is the vessels continues to create difficulties, not least in correct one to take, as an initial step; and if he the context of Turkey’s EU accession nego- will make a statement on the matter. [34493/06] tiations. The June 2006 European Council recalled the 98. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for need for Turkey to fulfil its obligations under the Foreign Affairs the negotiations which have Association Agreement and the additional Ank- taken place with his European counterparts ara Protocol, which takes account of the accession regarding the response of the European and of the new Member States, including the international community to the recent testing of Republic of Cyprus. Turkey’s progress in fulfil- a nuclear device by North Korea; and if he will ling these obligations, which include the need to make a statement on the matter. [34419/06] recognise the economic, maritime and navi- gational rights of all EU Member States, as well 132. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Foreign as its implementation of the revised Accession Affairs his views on the recent nuclear test by Partnership, will be evaluated by the European North Korea; and if he will make a statement on Commission in a report that is due to be pub- the matter. [34481/06] lished on 8 November. Based on the Com- mission’s report, the November General Affairs Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I and External Relations Council (GAERC) will propose to take Questions Nos. 84, 93, 98 and review the enlargement process and the progress 132 together. of the Turkish negotiations. In regard to the recent testing of a nuclear The Finnish Presidency is currently working on explosive device by the DPRK, I would refer the an initiative aimed at resolving the question of Deputies to the reply I have just given to the access to Turkish ports for Cypriot vessels in priority question on this issue. compliance with the Ankara Protocol. We fully As I stated in that reply, I immediately strongly support these efforts by the Presidency and hope condemned this provocative action by the DPRK. that they will lead to a timely resolution of this It is a serious threat to the security and stability issue. of the region, as well as a direct contravention of With regard to enlargement, it has always been the international objectives of nuclear disarma- our policy to consider each candidate on the basis ment and non-proliferation. It is clear from the of its own merits. This principle will continue to many statements calling on the DPRK not to per- underpin our approach to the negotiations with form its intended test, including that made by the Turkey. While there are difficult issues to be EU, that this action ignored the will of the inter- dealt with in the course of these particular nego- national community. It also ran counter to the 673 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 674 patient efforts of the DPRK’s neighbours to work Human Rights Issues. constructively to find a diplomatic solution 85. Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for Foreign through the Six Party Talks process. Affairs the level of contact between his Depart- On 14 October, the United Nations Security ment and the Government of Burma regarding Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1718 human rights abuses in that country; and if he will condemning the DPRK’s test and empowering make a statement on the matter. [34437/06] the international community to enforce specific sanctions. These sanctions include an arms 108. Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Foreign embargo, as well as a ban on any items which Affairs if he will report on the current situation could contribute to the DPRK’s nuclear, ballistic in Burma; the position, in particular, of Ms Aung missile or WMD programmes. In addition, the San Suu Kyi; and if he will make a statement on Resolution requires that all funds, economic the matter. [34501/06] resources and financial assets, connected to the trafficking of such items and their respective Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I programmes, be frozen. propose to take Questions Nos. 85 and 108 At the meeting last week of the General together. Affairs and External Relations Council, Ministers There has not been any recent direct bilateral committed the EU to the full implementation of contact with the Government of Burma. In 2004 Security Council Resolution 1718, as well as Res- the Government put on hold the exchange of olution 1695, adopted in July in response to the non-resident Ambassadors with Burma, and any DPRK’s earlier controversial ballistic missile decision to proceed with an exchange of tests. We are currently taking the necessary steps Ambassadors will have to await positive and sig- to ensure Ireland’s full compliance with these nificant moves by the Burmese Government. two resolutions. However, at the ASEM (Asia-Europe Meeting) I believe that it is still possible to achieve a Summit held in Helsinki last month, the diplomatic solution to the current crisis through Taoiseach raised the situation in Burma in the the Six Party Talks process. I would urge the presence of the Burmese Foreign Minister and called for the release of Aung San Suu Kyi. DPRK to return to these talks immediately and Burma attended as a member of ASEAN (the without precondition and work towards the Association of South East Asian Nations) and implementation of the Joint Statement of was the only participant at the Summit not invited September 2005 and the denuclearisation of the at Head of State or Government level. The EU Korean Peninsula. Troika met with the Foreign Minister in the mar- As regards the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation gins of the Summit to reinforce the EU’s strong of Nuclear Weapons (NPT), the testing of a concerns about the lack of progress in Burma. nuclear explosive device by DPRK is a matter of In my statement on behalf of Ireland to the grave concern. Since the DPRK’s announced 61st Session of the UN General Assembly on 26 withdrawal from the NPT in 2003, and sub- September, I referred to the particularly grave sequent declaration that it possesses nuclear wea- human rights situation in Burma. I called, once pons, the international community has consist- again, on the Burmese re´gime to move towards ently urged the DPRK to abandon its policy, democracy and to release all political prisoners, completely dismantle its nuclear weapons prog- in particular Aung San Suu Kyi. These statements ramme and comply fully with its obligations by the Taoiseach and myself are consistent with under the NPT. the strong position on Burma which Ireland takes With respect to the New Agenda Coalition, on all possible occasions, including in the Euro- Ireland, together with our partners in the group, pean Union framework and at the United has tabled a resolution at the current session of Nations. Together with our EU partners, we avail the First Committee of the UN General of all opportunities to call for the immediate Assembly emphasising the central role of the release of Aung San Suu Kyi, to condemn the NPT in achieving nuclear disarmament and non- abuse of human rights and fundamental freedoms proliferation and condemning the DRPK’s test of and deplore the lack of progress towards democ- a nuclear device. If there is a clear conclusion racy in Burma. from this act of defiance by the DPRK, it is the The visit by UN Under-Secretary-General (UN importance of the NPT and the non-proliferation USG) Gambari to Burma from 18-20 May was regime it establishes to international peace and the first high-level visit to that country by a UN security. representative in more than two years. I welcome the fact that he was able to meet with the most We hope that this latest incident will serve as senior Burmese leaders as well as with Aung San an impetus to the international community to Suu Kyi and representatives of her party, the redouble its efforts to strengthen all aspects of National League for Democracy, during the visit. the disarmament and non-proliferation regime, It is vitally important that the Burmese govern- not least the Comprehensive Nuclear Test-Ban ment allow the UN to play a role in promoting Treaty (CTBT), which has yet to enter into force. common ground between the government and 675 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 676

[Mr. D. Ahern.] India’s position as a non-signatory to the Treaty the National League for Democracy so that the on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons resumed National Convention can proceed in a (NPT), this raises some fundamental concerns more inclusive way. for Ireland. I remain deeply concerned that Aung San Suu Since the 2 March announcement, three dis- Kyi has been detained continuously for over cussions on the proposed agreement have been three years without charge and, once more, urge held at the NSG. Ireland has played an active the Burmese government to restore fully her free- role, along with several other countries, in seek- dom and civil liberties. UN USG Gambari’s visit ing both to question and to clarify a number of in May generated high hopes that her detention issues relating to the agreement. Some of the under house arrest, which was up for renewal a questions related to the proposed parallel safe- few days after he left Burma, might not be guards agreement between India and the IAEA, renewed by the authorities. This did not happen. as well as plans to separate India’s civil and On 27 May, the EU issued a statement which military nuclear facilities. deeply regretted the decision of the Burmese In the margins of the most recent NSG meeting government to extend the house arrest of Aung San Suu Kyi and deplored the fact that inter- in Vienna on 11-13 October, representatives of national appeals, including that of the EU, had the Indian Government were in attendance to once again gone unheard. brief NSG participants. We welcomed this first The UN Security Council recently decided to direct engagement by India with the NSG and include Burma on its agenda. On foot of this, took the opportunity to raise a number of our UNSG Gambari briefed the Security Council on concerns. This particular NSG meeting was not 29 September. This was the first time that the UN empowered to take decisions but provided a Security Council has discussed Burma as a formal further occasion to exchange information and item on its agenda. This is a welcome develop- share perspectives. ment. In this regard also, I welcome the news that On 18 October I received the Prime Minister UN USG Gambari is due to pay a return visit to of India’s Special Envoy on Civil Nuclear Coop- Burma in the near future. eration, Mr Shyam Saran. He set out clearly the I will continue to raise concerns about Burma Indian Government’s argument that the deal on all possible occasions and to call on the Bur- would in practice strengthen non-proliferation. mese government to assume its responsibilities This view has also been taken by Dr El Baradei, towards its people and to allow the fullest pos- the Director General of the International Atomic sible UN involvement in a genuine process of Energy Agency (IAEA). While recognizing democratisation and reconciliation. India’s energy needs and its great and growing economic and political importance, I conveyed to Nuclear Safety. him Ireland’s deep-rooted commitment to the NPT and reiterated our disappointment that 86. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Foreign India remained outside it. I also stressed Ireland’s Affairs the way Ireland will vote at the next meet- concerns over the potential impact of the deal on ing of the Nuclear Suppliers’ Group in relation to the NPT and the global disarmament and non- the US India agreement; when the next meeting of this group will take place; and if he expects this proliferation regime. Useful technical discussions matter to be concluded at the next meeting. were also held at official level. [34508/06] The next NSG Plenary meeting is currently scheduled for April 2007 in South Africa. It is Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): uncertain whether participants at this meeting Last year President Bush of the United States and will be called upon to make a final decision. This Prime Minister Singh of India agreed to establish will largely depend on the pace and outcome of a new strategic partnership between their two India’s negotiations with the IAEA, as well as of countries. One element of that partnership was a the legislative process in the United States. proposed agreement on civil nuclear cooperation. Ultimately, our final view will depend on our During a visit to India by President Bush on 2 assessment of the potential impact of the deal on March 2006, the two leaders announced that the global non-proliferation regime, but also on agreement had been reached. the approach taken by normally like-minded The Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) is a group countries and the overall balance of views within of 45 participating countries, including Ireland, the NSG. with agreed guidelines governing the export of items that are specially designed or prepared for Nuclear Non-Proliferation. nuclear use and for nuclear related dual-use goods. Under these guidelines the export of such 87. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Foreign items to India is prohibited and the question has Affairs if the Iranian nuclear programme has arisen whether the guidelines should be changed, recently been discussed by European Union or an exemption granted to India so that the pro- Foreign Ministers; and if he will make a state- posed US-India agreement may proceed. Given ment on the matter. [34421/06] 677 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 678

119. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for in Berlin on 27-28 September, failed to produce Foreign Affairs the position in relation to nego- a formula for the commencement of negotiations. tiations taking place between Iran and the EU3 The EU side has been obliged, reluctantly, to with regard to nuclear developments; and if he conclude that Iran is not at this stage seriously will make a statement on the matter. [34422/06] interested in responding to the generous offer made to it in June. 139. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Foreign Last week’s meeting of the Council therefore Affairs the position in relation to recent EU concluded that the time had now come for consul- diplomatic activity regarding Iran’s nuclear prog- tations in the Security Council on a further resol- ramme; if he will clarify Ireland’s attitude towards ution imposing some form of sanctions on Iran. sanctions on Iran; and if he will make a statement While regrettable, this now seems essential if the on the matter. [34482/06] authority of the Security Council and its resol- utions are to be maintained. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I It is deeply disappointing that Iran continues to propose to take Questions Nos. 87, 119 and 139 disregard Security Council Resolution 1696 but together. the matter of sanctions is now, as a consequence, The question of Iran’s nuclear programme is under consideration in New York. Should the kept under constant review within the European Security Council consider it necessary to adopt a Union at official level and is also the subject of further resolution imposing additional measures regular discussions at Ministerial level. The most in the form of sanctions on the Iranian regime, recent such discussion was at the General Affairs then Ireland will, of course, abide by this decision and External Relations Council meeting of 16-17 in conformity with its obligations under the UN October in Luxembourg. At that meeting Mini- Charter. sters discussed the latest developments, including I would, however, wish to stress that recourse the most recent talks between High Representa- to the Security Council should not be interpreted tive Solana and lead Iranian negotiator Ali as abandonment of the possibility of negotiations Larijani. and agreement on the June package of incentives. I would recall that on 6 June last, High Rep- I still believe that this package offers a real resentative Solana, on behalf of the EU3 as well opportunity to secure benefits for all sides. I as China, Russia and the United States, presented would strongly urge Iran to do what is necessary a package of incentives to Iran containing a so that a peaceful and acceptable resolution to framework for a wider agreement through which the current impasse can be found. a peaceful and acceptable resolution to the issue of its nuclear programme could be found. The Human Rights Issues. European Council endorsed this package on 16 June. Negotiations on the package were to com- 88. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for mence once Iran had suspended its enrichment- Foreign Affairs the political and security situation related and reprocessing activities, as requested in East Timor; the outstanding issues for resol- by the Board of Governors of the International ution; and if he will make a statement on the Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). matter. [34420/06] Following two unsuccessful meetings in early July between High Representative Solana and Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): Ali Larijani to clarify the contents of the package, There have been a number of recent devel- and mindful of the confirmation by the IAEA opments following the crisis in Timor-Leste that Iran was accelerating its enrichment prog- (formerly known as East Timor) in late April. ramme, the United Nations Security Council The former Foreign Minister Dr Jose Ramos- adopted Resolution 1696 on 31 July. This resol- Horta was appointed as Prime Minister on 10 ution made suspension of Iran’s enrichment July, with a new government formed shortly activities mandatory and set a deadline of 31 thereafter. Prime Minister Ramos-Horta and August. The Security Council also stated its President Gusma˜o have both committed them- intention to adopt a further resolution imposing selves to achieving reconciliation without sacrific- additional measures, including sanctions, should ing accountability for crimes committed during Iran not be in compliance by this date. the past months. However, the situation remains Iran did not respect the 31 August deadline. fragile, with many of the underlying causes of the Determined, however, to exhaust all avenues crisis still to be addressed. The number of intern- before returning to the Security Council, and in ally displaced persons remains high. light of Iran’s response in the meantime to the The Independent Special Commission of June package of incentives, High Representative Inquiry for Timor-Leste presented its report on Solana agreed to meet with Mr. Larijani in early 17 October. The Commission was established in September to explore whether an acceptable for- June under the auspices of the UN Commissioner mula for commencing negotiations could be for Human Rights to look into the facts and cir- agreed. The first session of these discussions pro- cumstances surrounding the events in April/May. ceeded positively and the key issue of suspension The Commission has stated its view that the crisis was addressed. However, a second session, held could largely be explained by the frailty of State 679 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 680

[Mr. D. Ahern.] of that regime to allow the deployment of a UN institutions and the weakness of the rule of law. force in Darfur. [34446/06] As the Commission notes, justice, peace and democracy are mutually reinforcing imperatives, 115. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for and the report underlines the need for a substan- Foreign Affairs the political and security situation tial and long-term effort on the part of the Timo- within the Darfur region of Sudan; and if he will rese Government and its international partners to make a statement on the matter. [34414/06] address the challenges facing the country. In part this work has already begun. On 25 117. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for August the UN Security Council unanimously Foreign Affairs if he will report on his recent decided to establish a new, expanded operation meeting with Sudan’s Foreign Minister, Mr. Lam for the country — the United Nations Integrated Akol, at the UN in which the Minister outlined Mission in Timor-Leste (UNMIT). UNMIT’s the Irish Government’s concerns regarding the mandate includes supporting the Government in situation in Darfur; and if he will make a state- “consolidating stability, enhancing a culture of ment on the matter. [34478/06] democratic governance, and facilitating dia- logue... to bring about a process of national 124. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for reconciliation”. The Mission will also support the Foreign Affairs the discussions that have taken country in all aspects of the 2007 Presidential and place between his Department and the Govern- parliamentary electoral process, and will seek to ment of Ethiopia with regard to encouraging the ensure the restoration and maintenance of pubic Government of Sudan to agree to the deployment security. In line with our long-standing commit- of a UN force in Darfur; and if he will make a ment to Timor-Leste, Ireland fully supports the statement on the matter. [34416/06] UN’s continued role. The impact of the disturbances on the people 140. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for of Timor-Leste remains a matter of concern to Foreign Affairs the steps he has taken or pro- the Government, and Ireland continues to be poses to take, directly or through the EU or UN, committed to supporting the development efforts to address the situation in Darfur; and if he will of that country. Minister of State Lenihan make a statement on the matter. [34619/06] announced, on 19 October, further Irish support of \1.14 million to assist Timor-Leste with the 147. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for aftermath of the crisis. This is additional to the Foreign Affairs the discussions he has held with \500,000 announced in June for humanitarian his counterpart in Sudan with regard to the relief, and brings to over \6.5 million the amount deployment of a UN force in Darfur; and if he which Irish Aid will provide in direct support to will make a statement on the matter. [34415/06] Timor-Leste in 2006. The additional funding will be targeted at the 217. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for underlying causes of instability, including youth Foreign Affairs the overtures made to the auth- unemployment. It will also provide support for orities in Sudan through the EU or UN with a the holding of parliamentary and presidential view to dealing with the ongoing issues there; and elections in 2007, as well as in the justice sector if he will make a statement on the matter. and human rights monitoring. The overall objec- [34848/06] tive of Ireland’s assistance to Timor-Leste has been to support the government of Timor-Leste 218. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for and civil society in reducing poverty by delivering Foreign Affairs the action he will take or initiate essential social services and by strengthening to deal with the situation in Darfur; and if he will governance and human rights. make a statement on the matter. [34849/06]

Foreign Conflicts. 219. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the action the Government has taken to 89. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Foreign encourage active UN involvement in order that Affairs his views on the tabling of an all-party basic human rights may be experienced by the motion of Da´il and Seanad E´ ireann on the crisis people of Darfur, West Africa; and if he will in Darfur, urging the Sudanese Government to make a statement on the matter. [34897/06] permit the deployment of a UN force as provided for in Security Council Resolution 1706 and indi- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I cating clearly the position of the Irish people in propose to take Questions Nos. 89, 94, 115, 117, opposing the conflict and loss of life in the 124, 140, 147 and 217 to 219, inclusive, together. region. [34445/06] I would also refer the Deputies to Priority Question No. 76, which I answered today. 94. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Foreign While it is a matter for the Oireachtas to Affairs his views on the imposition of targeted decide, I would support the tabling of an all-party sanctions against the Sudanese regime leaders motion of Da´il and Seanad E´ ireann on the crisis and their business interests in view of the failure in Darfur, urging the Sudanese Government to 681 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 682 permit the deployment of a UN force as provided and therefore the EU has given it extensive politi- for in Security Council Resolution 1706 and indi- cal, technical and financial support. Ireland has cating clearly the opposition of the Irish people provided \3 million, including \1.5 million to the conflict and loss of life in the region. pledged in July to ensure that the mission can ful- Last July, I visited Sudan to see conditions in fil its mandate through to the end of this year. Darfur first-hand and also met with the Sudanese Four personnel from the Permanent Defence Foreign Minister. I told the Minister that Ireland Forces have also served with AMIS. Since 2004, supported transition to a UN force and empha- Ireland has also provided over \16 million in sised the need to improve humanitarian access. humanitarian assistance to Darfur, including over The security situation was poor then and has \6 million during 2006. Overall, Ireland has pro- deteriorated significantly since. As the UN Sec- vided over \32 million to Sudan since 2004. This retary General warned in his report of 5 October, money has been used to support the active Darfur is at a critical stage, with insecurity at its involvement of the specialist UN agencies, includ- highest levels and humanitarian access at its low- ing the World Food Programme, the World est levels since 2004. Two rebel factions who Health Organisation and the UN Office for the refused to sign the May 2006 Darfur Peace Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, and Irish Agreement have been intensifying their military NGOs on the ground. activities. Furthermore, those parties who did The EU, the US, the Arab League and senior sign this Agreement, including the Sudanese African statesmen are continuing efforts to per- Government, have been guilty of widespread and suade Sudan to accept a UN force in Darfur. significant ceasefire violations. I am particularly However, we need to be prepared to take further concerned at a renewed offensive by the Sud- steps if the Sudanese position does not change. anese Army in Northern Darfur, which is causing Ireland and the EU already enforce a compre- further suffering and displacement. The escalat- hensive arms embargo on Sudan, which has been ing violence is preventing humanitarian organis- in place since 1994. We also implement a travel ations from reaching war and drought-affected ban and assets freeze on a Sudanese airforce com- people. An estimated 224,000 people are cur- mander, a Janjaweed leader and two rebels who rently cut off from food aid. have been designated by the UN Security Council On 26 September, I raised Ireland’s concerns as impeding the Darfur peace process. about Darfur in my address to the UN General As regards contacts with the Ethiopian Assembly and in bilateral meetings in New York Government, I met Prime Minister Meles Zenawi with the UN Secretary General and the Sudanese in Addis Ababa in July 2006 and I wrote to him Foreign Minister. I used these occasions to under- on 15 September to urge him to encourage the line that humanitarian aid must be delivered President of Sudan to accept the deployment of safely and without restrictions; that there must be the UN operation in Darfur, with a strong man- a transition to a substantial UN peace-keeping date for the protection of civilians and provision force with a robust mandate in Darfur; and that of security for the delivery of humanitarian assist- long-term security in Darfur can only be guaran- ance. I also discussed the transition to a UN force teed by the full implementation of the Peace with the Foreign Minister of Ethiopia while I was Agreement. In addition, I reminded my Sudanese in Addis Ababa and found his approach to this counterpart of the need to avoid repeating the issue to be positive and constructive. tragedy in Rwanda and underlined the plight of the internally displaced in Darfur. 90. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Foreign On 17 October, the General Affairs and Exter- Affairs if he will report on the ongoing disputes nal Relations Council expressed deep concern at between Georgia and the Russian Federation; the the appalling security, humanitarian and human initiatives he and his fellow EU Foreign Ministers rights situation in Darfur and called for an proposed at their recent meeting in Luxembourg immediate end to the ongoing violations of to attempt to make progress in this matter; and if human rights and international humanitarian law. he will make a statement on the matter. The Council urged all parties in the strongest [34497/06] terms to halt the violence, to protect civilians and to ensure the full, safe and unhindered delivery Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): of humanitarian assistance. The Sudanese Unresolved difficulties in relations between Government was reminded of its collective and Georgia and Russia give rise to recurring bouts individual responsibility for protecting its citizens of tension. The problems relate to the persistence from violence and guaranteeing respect for of “frozen conflicts” in the separatist Georgian human rights. The Council called on the non-sig- regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which natories to commit to the Darfur Peace Agree- unsuccessfully sought independence from Geor- ment. On 20 October the Taoiseach discussed gia in the aftermath of the dissolution of the Darfur with other EU Heads of State or Govern- former USSR and which continue to be sup- ment at the Informal European Council in ported politically by Russia. Moreover, since the Lahti, Finland. so- called “Rose Revolution” of 2003, Georgia Until transition to a UN force can take place, has strongly pursued membership of NATO and AMIS must be strengthened as far as possible, closer links with the EU. Its orientation towards 683 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 684

[Mr. D. Ahern.] European Security and Defence Policy (ESDP). NATO, in particular, is viewed by Russia with ESDP is an integral part of the European Union’s suspicion. In response to perceived provocations Common Foreign and Security Policy. earlier this year, Russia banned imports of Strengthening the ability of the EU to be able Georgian mineral water and wine, invoking to respond quickly to emerging crises is a key health and safety reasons. It has also closed the objective of the development of the ESDP, and only official land crossing between the two has been specifically supported by the Secretary countries. General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan. An While relations had been deteriorating for important aspect of ESDP is the development of some time, it was the arrest on 27 September of a standby military rapid response capacity, in the 4 Russian officers in Tbilisi for spying which pre- form of Battlegroups. All our partners in the EU cipitated the current crisis. Thanks to the efforts — with the exception of Denmark, which has an of the Chairman-in-Office of the OSCE, Belgian opt-out in this area, and Malta — have made Foreign Minister Karel De Gucht, and following commitments to contribute to a specific Battle- strong interventions from the EU and the US, group formation. Ireland indicated to its EU part- Georgia released the officers on Oct 2 and they ners in 2004 a positive disposition to taking part were immediately flown back to Russia. Russia in Battlegroups. persisted nevertheless in cutting rail, air and Following an interdepartmental report to the postal links and in focusing official attention on Minister for Defence on Battlegroups and sub- the activities of Georgian nationals living in sequent consideration by the Government, rep- Russia. It has given no sign that it intends to resentatives from the Department of Defence, rescind any of these measures. I understand that the Department of Foreign Affairs and the hundreds of Georgian citizens living in Russia Defence Forces have met with Sweden, as frame- have been deported and that some Georgian- work nation, to discuss possible participation by owned businesses have been forced to close. The the Defence Forces in the Nordic Battlegroup. combined effect of all these measures on the This is due to be on standby during the first half Georgian economy could be substantial. of 2008, and at present has commitments from The EU has been deeply engaged in efforts to Sweden, Finland, Norway and Estonia. resolve this crisis from the start, maintaining close Our representatives outlined Ireland’s position contacts with both sides. The General Affairs and in relation to international peacekeeping gener- External Relations Council at its meeting on 17 ally and provided information on the capabilities October adopted Conclusions on which Ireland could make available to a Battle- Georgia/Russian Federation relations which group. Following the most recent meetings, expressed the EU’s grave concern at the recent detailed parameters of a possible contribution by escalation of tensions, stressed the importance of Ireland to the Nordic Battlegroup are being toning down public rhetoric and called upon both worked through and are close to finalisation. The sides to reopen normal diplomatic dialogue in Minister for Defence informed the House on 12 order to work towards a normalisation of October that the total number of personnel relations. The Council expressed its grave con- involved is expected to be somewhere between cern at the economic, political and humanitarian 80 and 100, comprising an Explosive Ordnance consequences of the measures taken against Disposal (EOD)/Improvised Explosive Device Georgia. It urged Russia not to pursue measures Disposal (IEDD) contingent with its own security targeting Georgians living in the Russian Feder- detail, together with staff posts at the Operational ation and called on both parties to act in a man- and Force headquarters. I understand from the ner consistent with their international commit- Minister for Defence that he expects to bring the ments and obligations. The Council reiterated the matter to Government for decision shortly. My EU’s willingness to work with Georgia and Department will continue to work closely with Russian to facilitate mutual confidence building the Department of Defence, the Permanent and contribute to a peaceful resolution of the Defence Forces and our Nordic and Estonian crisis. At the informal European Council at Lahti partners. last Friday, the EU’s concerns on this matter I welcome the fact that progress is being made were conveyed to President Putin. on an Irish contribution to EU Battlegroups. This is very much in keeping with our traditional com- European Security and Defence Policy. mitment to UN peacekeeping and responds to the 91. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for Foreign specific request of the UN Secretary General. It Affairs the steps taken to work toward the is appropriate that our first involvement is likely development of new EU battlegroup formations to be with the Nordic Battlegroup, given our along with Ireland’s European counterparts; and strong ties with the Nordic countries in UN if he will make a statement on the matter. peacekeeping. [34428/06] Any decision on the actual deployment of the Irish contingent in an operation as part of the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): Battlegroup will, of course, be a matter for sover- EU Battlegroups are being developed under the eign decision, and the requirements of the “triple 685 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 686 lock” of Government decision, Da´il approval and the Directorate are filled by officers who have UN authorisation will have to be satisfied. signalled their intention to decentralise to Limerick. A further 17 officers who are serving Decentralisation Programme. elsewhere in the Department, mostly abroad, are also expected to decentralise to Limerick and will 92. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Foreign be taking up duty in Irish Aid in advance of the Affairs the number of development specialists move. In addition, 21 officers from other Depart- volunteering to decentralise within Irish Aid; and ments who have applied to decentralise to if he will make a statement on the matter. Limerick, most of whom are currently based in [34432/06] provincial locations, will transfer to the Depart- ment closer to the date of the move. Once these 104. Dr. Twomey asked the Minister for officers take up duty in Irish Aid, 85 posts (69% Foreign Affairs the number of senior develop- of the Directorate’s staff complement) will be in ment specialists volunteering to decentralise place. within Irish Aid; and if he will make a statement A small number of staff, approximately 15 at on the matter. [34434/06] entry grades, will be recruited for direct assign- ment to Limerick in the months preceding the 153. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Foreign move. Affairs the number of principal development Almost all of the senior management team for specialists volunteering to decentralise within Limerick will be in place by the end of this year. Irish Aid; and if he will make a statement on the The Director General of Irish Aid has already matter. [34433/06] indicated that he will decentralise to Limerick. There are now five Counsellors in place in the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Directorate, who have volunteered to go to Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): I propose to take Ques- Limerick and a further three Counsellors will tions Nos. 92, 104 and 153 together. take up duty over the next two months. The chan- Three Principal Development Specialists serve geover of the senior management team, just as in in Irish Aid headquarters in Dublin. None of the other grades, has been implemented in a planned three has applied to decentralise to Limerick. and careful way so as to minimise disruption to There are twelve Senior Development Special- the business of the Directorate. ists at Irish Aid headquarters. None of the twelve While there are challenges ahead, management is applying to decentralise to Limerick, though and staff are working effectively together to two originally did so, but subsequently withdrew maintain the quality and integrity of the prog- their applications. ramme. It would be my hope that a greater Finally, there are nine Development Specialist number of specialists will, in time, volunteer to posts at headquarters. At present five specialists decentralise to Limerick. are scheduled to decentralise, four who com- menced employment since the announcement of Question No. 93 answered with Question the decentralisation programme in December No. 84. 2003, and one who applied via the Central Appli- cations Facility. Question No. 94 answered with Question There is an ongoing Labour Court case regard- No. 89. ing the terms and conditions under which techni- cal grades are employed in various areas of the HIV-AIDS Agreement. public service, including the specialists employed 95. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Foreign by Irish Aid. Technical staff employed by Affairs the nature of the agreement signed on 29 Government Departments and Offices, including September 2006 with former president Mr. Bill specialists and other fixed-term workers Clinton to fight HIV and AIDS in Africa; and if employed in Irish Aid, brought cases to the he will make a statement on the matter. Rights Commissioner under the Protection of [31611/06] Employees (Fixed–Term Work) Act, 2003. The case, which involves complex legal issues, has 151. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign been referred to the European Court of First Affairs the nature of the agreement signed on 29 Instance. September 2006 with former President Mr. Bill Some of the issues involved in the decentralis- Clinton to fight HIV and AIDS in Africa; and if ation of Irish Aid to Limerick have, therefore, a he will make a statement on the matter. wider Civil Service dimension and must be [34491/06] resolved at the central level. Discussions are on- going with representatives of the specialists, with Minister of State at the Department of Foreign their union IMPACT, and with the Department Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): I propose to take Ques- of Finance about the issues involved. tions Nos. 95 and 151 together. Decentralisation is a Government decision and HIV/AIDS is one of the foremost challenges in the Government is committed to moving ahead development, especially in Africa. The recently with its implementation. At present, 47 posts in launched White Paper on Irish Aid reaffirms the 687 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 688

[Mr. C. Lenihan.] Human Rights Issues. priority attached by the Government to address- 96. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Foreign ing the global HIV/AIDS pandemic. Affairs the situation regarding the whereabouts The Clinton Foundation HIV/AIDS Institution of a person (details supplied) who had been the provides assistance to countries to implement subject of an Amnesty International urgent care, treatment and prevention programmes that action as at risk of torture if returned from Syria can reverse the course of the HIV/AIDS to Tunisia; the recent interventions by the pandemic. Government in respect of the person; and if he Three years ago the Government signed an will make a statement on the matter. [34487/06] agreement with President Clinton, committing the Government to allocating 50 million US dol- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I lars to HIV/AIDS treatment programmes in indicated in my reply to the Deputy on 22 developing countries. Mozambique was selected February last that the Syrian authorities had as the initial country of focus for the partnership. informed our Honorary Consul in Damascus on It is greatly affected by HIV with more than 16% 14 December 2005 that the person mentioned by of adults infected. The additional resources have the Deputy had been detained in Syria in 2003 on enabled the Government of Mozambique to suc- suspicion of travelling on falsified documents, and cessfully introduce HIV treatment into its public that he had subsequently been deported to Tuni- health response to HIV/AIDS. At the end of sia on 13 December 2005. June, over 27,000 people were on treatment. I also indicated that the Irish Embassy in Excellent progress has been made, but this is only Madrid, following unsuccessful attempts to deter- 10% of those needing treatment and there are mine the person’s whereabouts by our Honorary still big challenges ahead. Consul in Tunisia, had sent a formal communi- Having regard to the results achieved to date, cation to the Tunisian Ministry of Foreign the challenges still faced, and an interim review Affairs. The Embassy has been pursuing the case of the partnership, the Government has decided with the Tunisian authorities in the interim. to extend the partnership with the Clinton The Embassy has recently received a communi- Foundation in Mozambique. A new development cation from the Tunisian Consul in Madrid which is that the partnership is being expanded to Leso- makes serious allegations in relation to the per- tho. Lesotho, one of Irish Aid’s partner countries, son named by the Deputy. has one of the worst rates of HIV in the world I have instructed our Ambassador in Madrid and this is both a human tragedy and a tremen- to continue to seek from the Tunisian authorities more precise details and greater clarity as to the dous barrier to development. facts of the case. I have also instructed our On 29th September, the Taoiseach signed a Ambassador in Cairo, who is accredited to Syria, new agreement with President Clinton. This to seek further information from the Syrian auth- agreement builds on the existing partnership and orities. Departmental officials will also review the commits the Government to continue working case with the Department of Justice, Equality & with the Foundation up to 2010. The agreement Law Reform. I will revert to the Deputy when I commits Irish Aid to work jointly with the receive any further relevant information. Foundation in Mozambique and Lesotho towards the achievement of three goals:- to provide finan- Decentralisation Programme. cial and technical support towards the implemen- tation of national plans for the prevention, treat- 97. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Foreign ment, care and support of people affected by Affairs the progress made in the decentralisation HIV/AIDS; to contribute towards the strengthen- of his Department’s overseas aid division, Irish ing of the health system; and to respond to the Aid, to Limerick; if he is satisfied that the staff crisis of human resources for health. levels, expertise, and resources available to Irish Of the \70 million committed to the partner- Aid will be adequate to administer the aid prog- ship with the Clinton Foundation, \60 million will ramme effectively; and if he will make a state- go to Mozambique and \10 million to Lesotho. ment on the matter. [34479/06] This support will be channelled through Ireland’s missions in each country to the respective Minis- Minister of State at the Department of Foreign tries of Health. Irish Aid will meet with represen- Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): Under the Govern- tatives from the Clinton Foundation in these ment’s decentralisation programme, the Develop- ment Cooperation Directorate of the Department countries on a regular basis to review cooperation of Foreign Affairs, which is Irish Aid’s Head- and ensure the continued success of the quarters, and currently based in Dublin, will partnership. decentralise to Limerick. This is scheduled to This is an important partnership and represents take place during the third quarter of 2007 and a major contribution by the Government to fight- will involve the relocation to Limerick of 124 ing HIV/AIDS and achieving the Millennium posts. Development Goals. The situation is as follows: 689 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 690

• Already, 47 posts in Irish Aid head- to undertaking a major review of the manage- quarters, including that of Director ment of the Irish Aid programme. The review will General, are filled by officers who have sig- embrace the financial and administrative systems, nalled their intention to decentralise to including approval, monitoring, audit and eval- Limerick. 12 of these officers were already uation mechanisms, management information serving within the Department. The systems and the management and technical remainder is made up of 25 officers who competencies necessary to guide the programme have been recruited from other Depart- through this era of growth. ments and Offices via the Central Appli- cations Facility, 7 officers who have been Question No. 98 answered with Question assigned from inter-Departmental pro- No. 84. motion panels and 3 newly-recruited officers. EU Security and Defence Policy. • A further 17 officers who are serving else- 99. Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Foreign where in the Department, mostly abroad, Affairs the basis for a decision of Ireland on the are also expected to decentralise to participation of Irish troops in humanitarian or Limerick and will be taking up duty in Irish crisis management tasks mounted by the Euro- Aid in advance of the move. pean Union; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34298/06] • In addition, 21 officers from other Depart- ments who have applied to decentralise to 102. Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Foreign Limerick, most of whom are currently Affairs the EU policy on security and defence based in provincial locations, will transfer issues; the EU foreign policy activities and prog- to the Department closer to the date of the rammes; and if he will make a statement on the move. Once these officers take up duty in matter. [34299/06] Irish Aid, 85 posts (69% of the Director- ate’s staff complement) will be in place. 143. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Foreign • A small number of staff, approximately 15 Affairs the latest discussions he has held with his at entry grades (Clerical Officer and Third European counterparts with regard to cooper- Secretary), will be recruited locally for ation in the matter of security and defence; and direct assignment to Limerick in the if he will make a statement on the matter. months preceding the move. [34439/06] There are 24 development specialist posts Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I attached to Irish Aid’s headquarters. Four propose to take Questions Nos. 99, 102 and 143 Development Specialists and two Senior together. Development Specialists, who had applied to The European Security and Defence Policy decentralise, have since decided to withdraw their (ESDP) is an integral part of the European applications. The specialists, with the support of Union’s Common Foreign and Security Policy the IMPACT trade union, say that they are not (CFSP), the principles and objectives of which are prepared to consider decentralising while issues set out in the Maastricht, Amsterdam and Nice around the terms and conditions of their employ- Treaties, which were approved by the Irish ment are unresolved. people at successive referenda. Discussions are continuing with representatives The Treaties specify that the objectives of the of the specialists, with IMPACT, and with the CFSP include safeguarding the common values, Department of Finance with a view to resolving fundamental interests, independence and integ- the issues involved which also have a wider Civil rity of the Union in conformity with the principles Service dimension. It would be my hope that a of the United Nations Charter, strengthening the greater number of Specialists will, in time, volun- security of the Union in all ways, developing and teer to decentralise to Limerick. consolidating democracy and the rule of law, and The transfer of Irish Aid to Limerick presents respect for human rights and fundamental free- significant challenges. Risk management issues doms. In addition to a wide range of diplomatic are being addressed through planning and risk activities, the actions of the Union in support of management strategies. This involves adequate these objectives can include humanitarian and handover periods in order to ensure the retention rescue tasks, peacekeeping tasks and tasks of of corporate memory. Appropriate training and combat forces in crisis management, including induction courses are being provided and will peacemaking. continue to be provided for new staff. Staffing All decisions on the establishment of specific changes are being phased, in order to facilitate ESDP missions are subject to unanimity in the this process. Council. In deciding on possible Irish contri- The White Paper on Irish Aid recognises that butions to ESDP missions, the Government are the enormous expansion in the size of the aid guided by our assessment of the context and pur- programme will place heavy demands on those pose of the mission, and of the potential role we administering it. The Government has committed might play. Under the Defence Acts, as recently 691 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 692

[Mr. D. Ahern.] concern at the global level. One of these amended, any deployment of Irish troops remains measures seeks to improve identification, control subject to the ‘triple-lock’ of Government and interception of illegal trafficking, and, in decision, Da´il approval and UN authorisation. particular, to provide support for international As I have previously reported to the House, I initiatives aimed at the identification, control and met the Foreign Ministers of Sweden and Finland interception of illegal shipments. The statement in January 2005 and the Foreign Minister of went on to note that the principal purpose of the Austria in April 2005 to discuss a range of issues, PSI complemented well the objectives set out in including possible Irish participation in Battle- this Strategy and that the EU and its Member groups. I also had the opportunity to discuss States fully endorsed and subscribed to the PSI Ireland’s anticipated participation in the Nordic Statement of Interdiction Principles. Battlegroup with the Norwegian Foreign Mini- As regards the impact on the Treaty of the ster, Jonas Gahr Store, during the visit of the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT), I Norwegian Royal couple in September. Dis- would note that the scope of PSI activities is cussion of current CFSP and ESDP issues also much broader than the area of nuclear weapons takes place at the monthly meetings of EU and covers all WMD, including chemical and bio- Foreign Ministers at the General Affairs and logical weapons, as well as their means of deliv- External Relations Council. ery. I do not consider that the objectives of the My reply today to another question provides NPT are undermined by activities designed to detailed information on recent developments prevent the acquisition of materials necessary for with regard to Ireland’s participation in EU the production of nuclear weapons or their means Battlegroups. Finally, further information on cur- of delivery; indeed the reverse is the case. rent ESDP activities can be found in the Presi- I would also note, in this connection, that dency report to the June European Council, Ireland participates in a number of international available on the European Union’s Europa export control regimes that regulate the supply of website. sensitive goods that have the potential to be used in the production of WMD or their delivery Nuclear Non-Proliferation. systems. While such regimes are not explicitly provided for in the NPT, we, nonetheless, see this 100. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for activity as a necessary complement to our multi- Foreign Affairs his view as to whether the Pro- lateral treaty obligations. liferation Security Initiative, led by the United States since May 2003, is of assistance to or Northern Ireland Issues. undermines the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. [34509/06] 101. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if, further to paragraph 11 of the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): St Andrews Agreement, he will clarify what will The Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) was happen should any of the parties in Northern launched in Krakow, Poland on 31 May 2003. The Ireland default on their commitments following decision to establish PSI originated in part from restoration; the actions Governments will take in an incident in December 2002, when Spain inter- this scenario; and if he will make a statement on cepted an un-flagged vessel carrying a shipment the matter. [34506/06] of Scud missiles, en route from North Korea to Yemen. The ship was subsequently allowed to 121. Ms McManus asked the Minister for continue. In response to this incident, a group of Foreign Affairs if, further to the St. Andrews countries, led by the United States, agreed to Agreement, he will give more details of the cooperate to interdict vessels on the high seas and endorsement by the electorate of the agreement to ground aircraft worldwide, which are suspected that is required; the methods for this under con- of carrying Weapons of Mass Destruction sideration; and if he will make a statement on the (WMD), their delivery systems and related matter. [34505/06] materials. States participating in PSI activities operate 130. Ms McManus asked the Minister for under their own domestic law and in conformity Foreign Affairs if, further to the St. Andrews with international law. A Statement of Interdic- negotiations, he expects the DUP to agree to the tion Principles was agreed in Paris on 4 re-establishment of the Assembly and the Execu- September 2003, outlining how suspect vessels tive in the immediate future; the efforts he will could be detained and searched on entering a PSI make to ensure that the timetable outlined in the State’s territory, territorial waters or airspace. agreement will be adhered to, and not postponed; In May 2004, under the Irish Presidency, the and if he will make a statement on the matter. EU adopted a statement of support for the PSI. [34504/06] The statement noted that the EU Strategy against the proliferation of WMD contains a number of 144. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Foreign measures to prevent, deter, halt and, if possible, Affairs his views on the outcome of the St eliminate proliferation programmes that cause Andrews negotiations on political progress in 693 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 694

Northern Ireland; if he is confident that the process where trust and confidence grow Assembly and Executive can be re-established in incrementally to the point where partnership the immediate future; if the two Governments government becomes a lasting reality in Northern have a Plan B in the event of failure of the St. Ireland. We believe that implementation of the Andrews initiative; and if he will make a state- St. Andrews Agreement and the consequent com- ment on the matter. [34502/06] mitment by all parties in good faith to share power and to support policing and the criminal Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I justice system is the best possible guarantor of propose to take Questions Nos. 101, 121, 130, and institutional stability into the future. 144 together. As the Taoiseach has said, it is clear from our The proposed agreement published by the discussions at St. Andrews that some form of Governments at St. Andrews comprehensively electoral endorsement of the agreement as a addressed the core issues standing in the way of whole will be required before the formation of an the restoration of the power-sharing institutions Executive. The form such an endorsement would of the Good Friday Agreement. It sets out a clear take in Northern Ireland is not decided, nor is way forward for all parties to commit to the full the question of whether a referendum might be operation of stable power-sharing government required here. In considering these matters, the and the North/South and East/West arrange- Government will obviously be guided by the con- ments and to full support for policing and the sidered advice of the Attorney General. criminal justice institutions, including the Policing The process will continue to demand careful Board. It also sets out in some detail the practical management to bring it to a successful com- changes proposed to the operation of the insti- pletion and the Government will continue to tutions, the arrangements for a financial package work in close partnership with the British and the timetable for implementation of the Government, as well as with the parties, as we agreement. work to that end. The St. Andrews text is balanced and fair. It addresses the concerns of the parties on all out- Question No. 102 answered with Question standing issues. If implemented, it will bring us at No. 99. last to the realisation of the Government’s over- riding priority — the full implementation of the Overseas Development Aid. Good Friday Agreement and fully-functioning 103. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for power-sharing institutions serving the people of Foreign Affairs the amount of aid allocated the Northern Ireland. We believe that all the parties countries of the Middle East for 2006; and if he wish to see devolution restored and that all par- will make a statement on the matter. [34423/06] ties wish to support policing and the rule of law. We have also made clear however, that our dead- 107. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for line for progress remains firm and that in the Foreign Affairs the level of aid provided to the event of failure to agree, we will proceed on the Palestinian Authority in 2006; and if he will make basis of the new British Irish partnership arrange- a statement on the matter. [34438/06] ments to implement the Good Friday Agreement. We have asked the parties to confirm accept- 212. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for ance of the agreement by 10 November so that Foreign Affairs the extent to which international the timetable we have laid out for the nomination aid has been delivered to the Lebanon; and if he of the First and Deputy First Minister in will make a statement on the matter. [34843/06] November and for restoration of the Executive in March can be met. We continue to urge all the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign parties to work towards agreement on any out- Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): I propose to take Ques- standing issues and to remain steadfast in the face tions Nos. 103, 107 and 212 together. of those whose interests may lie in frustrating This year Ireland, through Irish Aid, has deliv- progress. The Government’s firm view is that no ered significant development and humanitarian issue is so difficult or intractable that it can not funding in the Middle East. The bulk of Ireland’s be resolved through discussion between the par- assistance — over \7.5 million in 2006 — has ties themselves. been allocated to Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. In This is also the case in respect of the future addition, micro-project development support of stability of the institutions. Paragraph 11 of the \140,000 has also been provided in Syria and St. Andrews Agreement refers to the existing Jordan. verification and compliance mechanisms relating In 2006, we have allocated some \5.4 million to to the Assembly as set out in the Good Friday meet the humanitarian and development needs of Agreement and in the agreement between the the Palestinian people. Ireland’s core objective in Governments published in May 2003. Insti- providing assistance to Palestine is to alleviate the tutional stability is fundamentally linked to the consequences of the conflict, by enhancing the overall question of trust and confidence. The St. capacity of Ireland’s partners in Palestine to Andrews Agreement is the culmination of the respond to the current crisis and, where possible, Governments’ work over many years to create a to begin to meet the future development needs of 695 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 696

[Mr. C. Lenihan.] ago, also touched upon these themes. The latter the Palestinian people. Currently, funding is not report stated that, while official figures released provided directly to the Palestinian Authority. earlier this year by the Organization for Econ- The United Nations Relief and Works Agency omic Cooperation and Development (OECD) (UNRWA) remains our key partner in the pro- and the European Commission indicated that vision of basic, emergency assistance to the Member States were indeed living up to their Palestinian people. Ireland has provided \2 mil- promises as regards the scaling-up of their official lion in assistance to UNRWA this year. This core development assistance, almost one third of funding facilitates UNRWA in responding with reported ODA in 2005 did not provide any new flexibility to Palestinian needs in the West Bank, aid for developing countries. Rather, said the Gaza and also in the region, including refugees in report, it was in fact accounted for by debt cancel- Jordan, Syria and the Lebanon. lation, foreign student costs and refugees in In Palestine, our development funding is donor countries. focused on the provision of support for basic edu- The internationally agreed rules for aid cation, strengthening local government through reporting are set by the OECD. Some of the cat- local and rural development programmes and egories referred to by the Deputy may be eligible support for key United Nations agencies. In as development assistance, under OECD rules. It addition, Ireland has provided funding through should be recalled that debt relief, for example, partner NGOs and Bethlehem University. makes an important contribution to development. Ireland responded swiftly to the crisis in I should also point out that Ireland’s develop- Lebanon earlier this year. A total of \1.3 million ment assistance consists almost entirely of fund- was approved for delivery for humanitarian oper- ing in grant form to programmes and projects. ations via key UN and Non Governmental Indeed, in the Action Aid report, referred to earl- Organisations (NGOs) with a proven record of ier, Ireland retained its position as the donor with delivering effective assistance on the ground. On the highest share of real aid. 31 August, at the Stockholm Donor Conference, \ I pledged a further 2 million for recovery and International Agreements. longer-term reconstruction and assistance in Lebanon and Palestine over the next two years. 106. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for The Financial Tracking Service system of the Foreign Affairs the position with regard to United Nations has reported that over US$362 Turkey’s accession to the Energy Community million in humanitarian funding has been com- Treaty; and if he will make a statement on the mitted by donors in response to the emergency matter. [34418/06] phase of the crisis in the Lebanon. At the recent Stockholm Conference in support of Lebanon, Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): some US$900 million was pledged by donors in The Treaty establishing the Energy community support of early recovery and rehabilitation. was signed on 25 October 2005 by the European Ireland continues to respond to the humani- Community and by Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia tarian situation in Iraq and in 2006, funding of and Herzegovina, Croatia, the former Yugoslav \850,000 has been provided in support of mine Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), Montenegro, clearance and health programmes. Romania and Serbia as well as by the United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Question No. 104 answered with Question Kosovo (UNMIK). The Treaty follows on from No. 92. the Athens process which started in 2002 when the European Commission set out proposals for 105. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Foreign the creation of a regional energy market in South Affairs his views on many countries of the Euro- East Europe. The Athens process and the Energy pean Union distorting their official aid figures in Community Treaty reflect the objectives of the relation to the EU commitment to achieving Stabilisation and Association Process, which aims 0.7% of GNP by 2015 by including debt cancel- to promote cooperation between the European lation, assistance to refugees and student welfare Union and the countries of the region. The as part of their development expenditure; and if Treaty also seeks to encourage cooperation he has had discussions on the matter. [34488/06] among those counties themselves. The Energy Community Treaty will allow the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Balkan region to become integrated into the Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): There has been public EU’s internal energy market. Its key operational debate about which categories of assistance aims are to extend the application of the Com- should properly be classified as Official Develop- munity’s acquis to all parties to the Treaty across ment Assistance or ODA. A recent report by the a range of areas. It will create regional mechan- NGO Action Aid highlighted differences isms to allow for closer integration of local energy between what is regarded as ‘real aid’ and ‘phan- markets. It represents agreement also to work tom aid’. The Joint European NGO report, towards common policies for external trade, mut- entitled, EU aid: genuine leadership or mislead- ual assistance and the removal of internal energy ing figures?, which was published a few months market barriers. 697 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 698

Turkey is currently engaged in negotiations on tries need 100% debt relief, if they are to address accession to the Energy Community Treaty. It the development needs of their people seriously. has already signed the Athens Memorandum on This is an important basis from which we can con- which the Energy Community is based. This con- tinue to work for a complete and sustainable sol- tains commitments at a political level for the ution to the debt problem facing poor countries. establishment of and integrated regional energy The Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative is separ- market. ate from the earlier HIPC Initiative, but linked to The Energy Community is a key element of the it operationally. Under this new Initiative, cancel- Union’s strategy in South East Europe and is an lation of eligible debts is granted to countries important pre-accession tool for parties preparing which have completed the HIPC Initiative pro- to join the Union. Ireland supports the Energy cess, i.e. have already been judged as qualified Community and looks forward to and early to receive debt relief. As of mid-August 2006, 29 agreement with Turkey which will enable it to countries of the 40 defined heavily indebted poor accede to the Treaty. countries had received debt relief under the HIPC Initiative amounting to US$28.8 billion. So Question No. 107 answered with Question far, 19 of these countries have also received No. 103. MDRI debt relief from the IMF and World Bank amounting to a further US$15.8 billion (US$12.8 Question No. 108 answered with Question billion from the World Bank and US$3.0 billion No. 85. from the IMF). The total cost of the Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative is estimated at US$48.9 Debt Relief. billion in nominal terms. 109. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Foreign The IMF share of the Multilateral Debt Relief Affairs the extent to which IMF and World Bank Initiative’s costs will largely be met by own commitments for third world debt relief have resources, as authorised by IMF Members includ- been honoured; and if he will make a statement ing Ireland. Ireland’s additional share of the costs on the matter. [34429/06] of the Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative amounts to \58.6m, out of the approximately US$ 37 210. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for billion total cost of debt relief to be provided by Foreign Affairs the amount of debt write off the World Bank. As a gesture of support and to achieved to date in 2006; and if he will make a underline our strong commitment to 100% debt statement on the matter. [34841/06] relief for the poorest countries, this amount has already been paid over in full. 211. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the extent and value of the inter- EU Accession Negotiations. national debt write off proposed in the context of 110. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for international agreement; the amount delivered or Foreign Affairs the latest meetings and debates achieved to date; the areas outstanding; and if he regarding the proposed accession of Turkey to will make a statement on the matter. [34842/06] the European Union; the initiatives or sugges- tions Ireland has made in this regard; and if he Minister of State at the Department of Foreign will make a statement on the matter. [34494/06] Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): I propose to take Ques- tions Nos. 109, 210 and 211 together. The IMF and World Bank have made increas- 118. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Foreign ing efforts to tackle the problem of debt in Affairs the status of EU accession negotiations developing countries since the launch of the with Turkey; the outstanding issues for resol- Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiat- ution; and if he will make a statement on the ive in 1996. The HIPC Initiative, which was matter. [34417/06] strengthened and enhanced in 1999, sought to reduce the debt burden of qualifying countries to 209. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for sustainable levels but did not entail cancellation. Foreign Affairs the situation with regard to Ireland contributed some \30m towards the costs Turkish accession to the EU; and if he will make of implementation of the Initiative. a statement on the matter. [34840/06] The Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative (MDRI), agreed by the G8 Countries at Glene- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): agles in July 2005 and which came into effect on I propose to take Questions Nos. 110, 118 and 1 July this year, goes further. It is a commitment 209 together. to the cancellation of the multilateral debt, owed Negotiations regarding Turkish accession to to the World Bank, the African Development the European Union commenced on 3 October Bank and the International Monetary Fund, of 2005. An extensive screening process is currently many of the poorest and most indebted countries ongoing which closely scrutinises the compati- in the world. Most of these countries are in bility of Turkish legislation with that of the EU. Africa. For the first time, the most powerful In all, there are 35 negotiating chapters in the countries have recognised that many poor coun- accession process. After a Chapter has been scre- 699 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 700

[Mr. D. Ahern.] bility in view of the nature of this invasion and ened, the EU can decide, on the basis of a pro- the lack of an exit strategy to which the Irish posal from the Commission, whether the nego- Government was a proxy despite the disapproval tiations in that sector can proceed. In June 2006, of such an action by the Irish people; and if he the European Council welcomed the provisional will make a statement on the matter. [34498/06] closure of the Science and Research chapter with Turkey. To date, this is the only Chapter to have 152. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Foreign been provisionally concluded. Very regular meet- Affairs his views on a recent article (details ings take place at official level to examine and supplied) that the number of deaths in Iraq has prepare the negotiating chapters in the accession been seriously underestimated, and may be over process. Periodic meetings also take place at pol- 600,000; and if he will make a statement on the itical level, the most recent being the EU Troika’s matter. [34499/06] meeting with Turkey’s Foreign Minister, Mr Abdullah Gul, which took place in Luxembourg Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): on 16 October 2006. I propose to take Questions Nos. 111, 127 and A report on the progress of Turkey’s accession 152 together. negotiations is due to be published by the Euro- The Government shares the widespread con- pean Commission on 8 November 2006 and a cern at the extremely difficult situation in Iraq. debate on enlargement will take place at the We and our partners in the EU remain firmly November General Affairs and External committed to supporting the Iraqi people as they Relations Council (GAERC). Turkey’s Chief work to restore security and prosperity to their Negotiator with the EU, Mr Ali Babacan, will country. visit Dublin on 2 November next when I will be On 21 May, the Iraqi Parliament approved the meeting with him to review the negotiating pro- appointment of the national unity Government cess. He will also address the National Forum presented by Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki. The on Europe. Cabinet includes democratically-elected rep- Ireland has always been supportive of the resentatives of all the main communities in Iraq, enlargement process from which we have consist- including the Sunni community. No-one would ently benefited. In approaching successive underestimate the huge challenges it faces in enlargement negotiations, it has been our policy asserting its authority across the country. to consider each candidate on the basis of its own However, I believe it is important that we recog- merits. This principle will continue to underpin nise that Iraq now has a fully sovereign and our approach to the negotiations with Turkey. democratic Government and Parliament, for per- While the negotiations with Turkey raise partic- haps the first time in its history. ularly difficult issues, it is important that the Since 2003, the EU has provided over \700 mil- Union should abide by the commitments given to lion in assistance for the reconstruction of Iraq. Turkey by successive European Councils. It is The June European Council emphasised that this also essential that Turkey should fulfil its obli- support will continue, in partnership with the new gations, including the implementation of the Government. Work is continuing under the aus- Ankara Protocol. pices of the United Nations on the development Ireland has made it clear that, while we do not of an International Compact for Iraq, which see Turkish recognition of the Republic of would coordinate assistance in line with the Iraqi Cyprus as a condition for accession negotiations, Government’s priorities. it will be an absolute requirement for eventual Turkish membership of the Union. Meanwhile, it It is clear that the political and reconstruction is vitally important that Turkey should normalise efforts of the Government are to a great extent its relations with Cyprus as required by the being blocked by the continuing large-scale viol- Ankara Protocol. ence across the country. There is at present no sign that the insurgency and the appalling inter- communal violence are being brought under Foreign Conflicts. control. 111. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for The Government has no means of assessing the Foreign Affairs the political and security situation accuracy of the different estimates of the in Iraq; and if he will make a statement on the numbers of casualties in Iraq. The NGO Iraq matter. [34440/06] Body Count estimates that between 44,000 and 49,000 civilians have been reported killed since 127. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Foreign 2003. The recent article in the Lancet, by the Affairs his views on the recent call by the head Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public of the British Armed Forces, General Sir Richard Health and the School of Medicine of Al Mustan- Dannatt, that occupying British troops ought to siriya University in Baghdad, makes deeply dis- exit Iraq as a matter of urgency as their presence turbing reading. On the basis of a cluster sample in the country is exacerbating the security prob- survey, the researchers estimate that there may lems there; if he agrees with this view; his further have been as many as 650,000 excess deaths in views on whether such a position was an inevita- Iraq as a consequence of the war. 701 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 702

I have followed closely the recent public debate 202. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for in Britain and in the US on the presence of inter- Foreign Affairs the position with regard to pro- national troops in Iraq, including the statements posals to establish a Rapid Response Initiative as by the head of the British Army and by Prime part of our response to humanitarian disasters; Minister Blair. At the outset of the war in 2003, and if he will make a statement on the matter. the Government acknowledged that there was no [35067/06] clear legal consensus on whether there was a mandate for the use of force against Iraq. The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Taoiseach moved a Motion, which was adopted Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): I propose to take Ques- by the House on 20 March 2003, which reaffirmed tions No. 112 and 202 together. Ireland’s commitment to the United Nations as The Rapid Response Initiative, as set out in the the guarantor of collective global security and the White Paper on Irish Aid, is designed to enhance appropriate forum for the resolution of disputes Ireland’s response to humanitarian crises. The threatening international peace and security. He Initiative has three elements: (1) the pre-posi- made clear that Ireland could not participate in tioning and transportation of humanitarian sup- the military campaign without an explicit further plies to disaster areas; (2) the availability of a ros- Security Council mandate. This remains the ter of highly-skilled and experienced individuals, Government’s position on the circumstances of from both the public and private sectors, includ- the invasion in 2003. ing the Defence Forces, for deployment at short The reality now is that the international forces notice to emergency situations; and (3) improving serving in Iraq are operating at the explicit the emergency capacities of international request of the Iraqi Government and under UN humanitarian response agencies and mechanisms. mandate. The presence of the Multinational On Friday 13 October, I signed a Letter of Force was authorised by the UN Security Council Understanding with Mr James Morris, Executive under Resolution 1511 of October 2003, which Director of the UN World Food Programme urged Member States to contribute assistance (WFP) on the pre-positioning of humanitarian under the UN mandate. This mandate was most supplies. Under the two-year pilot programme, recently extended until the end of 2006 by Resol- Irish Aid will fund the pre-positioning of humani- ution 1637, which was adopted unanimously by tarian supplies at the United Nations Humani- the Security Council last November. I believe it tarian Response Depot (UNHRD) — the UN’s would be entirely inappropriate for the Govern- rapid response base, managed by the WFP — in ment to advise other States on their contributions Brindisi, Italy. Further pre-positioned stocks will to a UN-mandated force. Moreover, it is above be located at the Curragh in due course. all for the democratically-elected Government of The emergency supplies at Brindisi will com- Iraq to consider whether it wishes the Multi- prise shelter and other non-perishable items such national Force to continue its operations. as kitchen sets, blankets, plastic sheeting, tents The Government believes that in considering and mosquito nets and also water supply and the situation in Iraq, the primary concern of the sanitation equipment to benefit up to 20,000 international community must be the welfare of people. Similar materials will be stored at the the people of Iraq. They deserve a better future smaller facility in the Curragh. Ireland will also after decades of brutal dictatorship and war. Con- assist the UN in the expansion of its network of cerns relating to the vast reserves of natural regional supply depots. resources with which their country has been The second element of the Rapid Response blessed have too often contributed to instability Initiative, the establishment of a roster of individ- and divisions in that region of the Middle East. ual volunteers available to assist in sudden Those resources now need to be harnessed in the emergencies, is currently in the planning phase. interests of all the people of Iraq. The Govern- The roster will comprise a focused range of ment and our partners in the EU remain con- experts, recruited from both the public and vinced that a secure and peaceful Iraq can only be private sectors, including the Defence Forces, ensured through the maintenance of its territorial who will be seconded, on request, to various UN integrity, the development of shared political and organisations at short notice and for short periods other institutions and strong political and econ- in the early stages of a humanitarian response. omic links with all the countries of the neighbour- The UN Office for the Coordination of ing region. Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the World Food Programme (WFP) have Overseas Humanitarian Aid. been identified as appropriate partners in this 112. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Foreign regard. Irish Aid is currently in discussions with Affairs the position with regard to the develop- these UN humanitarian agencies in relation to the ment of a rapid response initiative to strengthen skill sets requirements for emergency missions. I Ireland’s capability to respond to emergency expect that we will be able to enter into stand-by situations worldwide; and if he will make a state- arrangements with these organisations in due ment on the matter. [34436/06] course. 703 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 704

[Mr. C. Lenihan.] the situation in the Democratic Republic of The third element of the Rapid Response Congo; and if he will make a statement on the Initiative is to provide assistance to key UN agen- matter. [34847/06] cies, the Red Cross family and NGOs to enable them to enhance their own capacity to respond to Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I humanitarian emergencies. This process is propose to take Questions Nos. 114, 129, 215 and underway. 216 together. The first round of voting in presidential and Decentralisation Programme. parliamentary elections in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) took place on 30 113. Mr. English asked the Minister for Foreign July, with an estimated turnout of just over 70%. Affairs the position with regard to the sourcing These were the first multi-party elections in the of a property to house the decentralised Irish Aid DRC in over forty years and took place in a gen- operation; and if he will make a statement on the erally peaceful environment. International matter. [34435/06] observers, including the EU and the UN, have Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): generally pronounced themselves satisfied that Under the Government’s decentralisation prog- the elections were conducted in an open and fair ramme, the Development Cooperation Director- manner. ate of the Department of Foreign Affairs, which A run-off election between the two leading is the Headquarters of Irish Aid and currently contenders in the presidential poll, President based in Dublin, will decentralise to Limerick. Kabila and Vice-President Bemba, will now take The Office of Public Works (OPW) is respon- place on 29 October. sible for the provision of office accommodation It is important that the electoral campaign for the Directorate in Limerick. The OPW has leading up to the second round of voting on 29 identified a suitable location on Henry Street in October should be conducted in a orderly and Limerick city centre, and has advised my Depart- peaceful manner and that there be no repetition ment that lease terms have been agreed with the of the violence which marred the announcement developer. The developer has indicated that he is of the first round results on 21-22 August. The now aiming for the building to be fully fitted out EU, along with other international partners, and ready for use by September 2007. In addition, played a major role in securing agreement on a the availability of temporary accommodation for code of conduct for the current electoral cam- a possible advance move in May 2007 is now paign which now needs to be fully respected and being explored with the Office of Public Works. implemented. It is also vital that all parties respect the democratic verdict of the electorate, once delivered, and that the emphasis in the post- Foreign Conflicts. election period should be on consensus building 114. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign and ensuring the maximum political support for Affairs the present position in the Democratic whatever new government emerges from the Republic of Congo; the initiatives proposed at elections. EU level to help alleviate the suffering of inno- Ireland and its EU partners have invested cent people in that country; his views on reports heavily in support of the elections and the suc- of effective plundering of the country’s resource’s cessful conclusion of the transition process in the and riches by states of the first world; and if he DRC. Nationally, Ireland has contributed a total will make a statement on the matter. [34490/06] of \1.3 million in support of the DRC electoral process. Ireland is also contributing seven 129. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for members of the Permanent Defence Forces who Foreign Affairs the extent he and his colleagues are serving with the EUFOR mission which the at EU of UN level have studied the allegations of EU has deployed, at UN request, in order to genocide in the Democratic Republic of the provide support, if required, to the UN MONUC Congo; if provisions have been made with a view peace-keeping mission throughout the electoral to engaging the worldwide community in an period. The EU also deployed a 250-strong elec- effort to deal with the issue; and if he will make tion observation mission, including two observers a statement on the matter. [34618/06] from Ireland, to monitor the elections. Observers from this mission will be present for the second 215. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for round voting on 29 October. Foreign Affairs if the UN or EU will take action The DRC will continue to face considerable to deal with allegations of euthanasia, ethnic challenges in the post-election period and it will cleansing and human rights violations in the be important for the international community to Democratic Republic of Congo; the progress on remain engaged in support. Greater progress the issue; and if he will make a statement on the needs to be made in tackling impunity and estab- matter. [34846/06] lishing an effective system of justice. It is partic- ularly important, in this regard, that the new 216. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for government should fully support the ongoing Foreign Affairs if action will be taken to assess investigation of the International Criminal Court 705 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 706 into those serious crimes and human rights \150 will be committed this year. This year’s fig- violations committed in the DRC since the ure includes a substantial programme of rehabili- Court’s establishment on 1 July 2002. One indi- tation amounting to \65 million in eastern DRC vidual has already been indicted by the ICC and which continues to experience significant levels is currently in custody in The Hague awaiting of insecurity. trial. The Government, for its part, has contributed Other priority areas for the new government, almost \12 million for emergency and recovery supported by the international community, will activities in the DRC since 2003, with \6.1 million include ending the threat posed by illegal armed provided to date in 2006. Ireland has also decided militias in eastern DRC as well as security sector to provide financial support for the World Bank- reform and completing the integration of national administered Multi-Country Demobilisation and armed and police forces. The EU is already offer- Rehabilitation Programme (MDRP) which spear- ing extensive support in this area though the heads international efforts to bring about demob- EUSEC and EUPOL ESDP missions and has ilisation and rehabilitation of former combatants also agreed to coordinate international efforts in throughout the Great Lakes region. Financial the future in support of security sector reform. support from Ireland to the MDRP in 2006 will The illegal exploitation of its considerable amount to \500,000. Ireland is committed to con- natural resources was a major contributory factor tinuing to support the DRC, including through to the conflict in the DRC and it is important that provision of emergency and recovery assistance the international community should work with as well as any other forms of assistance deemed the new government to ensure all necessary appropriate, as that country moves into what I measures are taken to combat such illegal exploi- hope will be a new era of democracy and tation. The issue of illegal exploitation of the development. DRC’s natural resources was extensively studied by a UN Panel of Experts in 2002-2003 which Question No. 115 answered with Question made a number of practical recommendations for combating such exploitation. The UN Security No. 89. Council has, as yet, failed to take any action endorsing these recommendations. Northern Ireland Issues. The illegal exploitation of its considerable 116. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for natural resources was a major contributory factor Foreign Affairs if, further to the St Andrews to the conflict in the DRC and it is important that negotiations, he expects Sinn Fe´in to fully the international community should work with endorse the Police Service of Northern Ireland the new government to ensure all necessary and take their seats on the policing board in the measures are taken to combat such illegal exploi- near future; if the two Governments have insisted tation. The issue of illegal exploitation of the that both these steps are required for political DRC’s natural resources was extensively studied progress; and if he will make a statement on the by a UN Panel of Experts in 2002-2003 which matter. [34503/06] made a number of practical recommendations for combating such exploitation. The UN Security Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): Council has, as yet, failed to take any action At St Andrews, the two Governments agreed endorsing these recommendations. A positive proposals in relation to the few issues which development in this regard is the planned agree- ment on certification of natural resources which remained outstanding from previous nego- is likely to be approved by the eleven countries, tiations, including the restoration of power-shar- including the DRC, participating within the ing institutions and support for policing and the framework of the UN and African Union-spon- rule of law. We believe that the St Andrews sored Great Lakes Conference, the second Sum- Agreement sets out clearly how these issues can mit of which is due to take place in Nairobi next be resolved with the necessary political will December. The successful holding of this Summit among the parties. will itself be a major confidence-building measure In the St Andrews Agreement, the Govern- and should contribute to underpinning security in ments reiterated our consistent position that sup- the DRC and throughout the region. port for policing and the rule of law should be Given the scale of the conflict in the DRC, extended to every part of the community. In our which is estimated to have resulted in at least 3.5 discussions, it was clear that all the parties, million deaths and has left three million people including Sinn Fe´in, share the objective of resolv- still internally displaced, it is evident that substan- ing the issue of policing. The Agreement is tial support from the international community unequivocal on what is required in this area: “Ev- will be required in order to help confront the ery party must fully endorse the PSNI and the challenges of reconstruction which lay ahead. The criminal justice system; they must actively EU, through the European Development Fund, encourage everyone in the community to cooper- is committed to provide approximately \500 mil- ate fully with the PSNI in tackling crime; and they lion in development and recovery assistance to must actively support all the policing and justice the DRC for the period 2003-2007, of which over institutions, including the Policing Board. 707 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 708

[Mr. D. Ahern.] unambiguously for an immediate cessation of The Government, for its part, has taken every violence and the protection of civilian lives. possible opportunity to encourage Sinn Fe´in to Throughout the conflict we fully acknowledged endorse the new policing arrangements, thereby that Israel had a right to defend itself against ensuring that all communities in Northern Ireland attack, but not at the expense of the rights, and are represented on the policing oversight insti- the lives, of Lebanese civilians. Our principal con- tutions and have full access to the policing cern was with the effect of military actions on civ- services provided by the PSNI. ilians, Israeli and Lebanese. We were shocked at Following the negotiations at St Andrews we the high level of casualties among Lebanese civ- have asked the parties to consult as appropriate, ilians, and at the widespread destruction of vital and to confirm their acceptance of the proposals civilian infrastructure. by 10 November. We continue to urge all the par- We raised our concerns directly with the Israeli ties to work towards agreement on any outstand- authorities throughout the conflict, and used ing issues and are firmly of the view that there every opportunity to influence the parties most now exists the basis for securing the objective of directly involved. On 26 July, with my colleague full implementation of the Good Friday the Minister for Defence, I called in the Agreement. Ambassador of Israel to emphasise the strength of the Government’s position following the Question No. 117 answered with Question deaths of four unarmed UN peacekeepers in No. 89. Khiam in Southern Lebanon. We also worked consistently with our partners in the EU and at Question No. 118 answered with Question No. 110. the UN to achieve a ceasefire. I represented the Government’s views strongly Question No. 119 answered with Question at two emergency meetings of the General No. 87. Affairs and External Relations Council during August. Ireland’s contribution helped to ensure Foreign Conflicts. that the EU, at our meeting on 1 August, issued an unequivocal call for an immediate cessation 120. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for of hostilities. Foreign Affairs if, in regard to the public state- The Government is strongly committed to ment issued on 30 July 2006 regarding the heavy assisting the full implementation of UN Security loss of life arising from an Israeli air strike on the Council Resolution 1701, which was adopted Lebanese village of Qana, he took the oppor- unanimously on 11 August, and which provided tunity to convey these views personally to the the basis on which the fighting was brought to a Israeli or US authorities; the reply received; and halt. It offers a path to a stable peace based on if he will make a statement on the matter. the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political [28370/06] independence of Lebanon. The ceasefire is hold- ing well and the EU has taken the lead in the 126. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for deployment of the strengthened UNIFIL force in Foreign Affairs if, in regard to the public state- Southern Lebanon alongside units of the ment issued on 30 July 2006 regarding the heavy Lebanese Army, which has enabled the with- loss of life arising from an Israeli air strike on the drawal of the Israeli Army from the area. Lebanese village of Qana, he took the oppor- As Deputies will be aware, following the tunity to convey these views personally to the Israeli or US authorities; the reply he received; decision of the Government and the approval of and if he will make a statement on the matter. the Dail on 11 October, Ireland will contribute a [34492/06] contingent of 150 members of the Defence Forces to serve with UNIFIL, as part of a joint Finnish- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I Irish unit. Deployment will take place at the end propose to take Questions Nos. 120 and 126 of this month. The unit will carry out tasks in sup- together. port of UNIFIL, and also humanitarian work, The Taoiseach stated on 30 July that he was especially in relation to the clearance of unex- shocked and appalled at the heavy loss of life in ploded ordnance. the Israeli airstrike on the village of Qana. He The Government remains seriously concerned noted that this terrible event served to underline at the terrible risk posed to the civilian popu- the Government’s clear message that an immedi- lation in Southern Lebanon by the large number ate ceasefire was urgently needed in Lebanon and of unexploded cluster munitions. We have sup- that military actions only made a solution more ported the UN in its criticism of the Israeli Army difficult. The loss of innocent lives in Qana was in this regard. Ireland is also one of a small group also deplored by the UN Security Council on 30 of States which is active internationally, in the July, and condemned across the world. context of the Review Conference of the Conven- From the beginning of the conflict in Lebanon, tion on Certain Conventional Weapons, in calling which erupted following an unprovoked attack by for agreement on the opening of negotiations for Hizbollah on 12 July, the Government called a legally binding international instrument to 709 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 710 address the humanitarian concerns posed by clus- dent and at ensuring that all relevant personnel ter munitions. are fully aware of their obligations and of the pro- The events of this summer underlined that cedures to be followed. On the basis of our dis- there can be no unilateral or military solution to cussions with the US authorities, I have no reason the interrelated problems of the Middle East. to believe that this was other than an isolated With our partners in the EU, we will remain incident which arose from an administrative engaged in support of the reconstruction of error. Lebanon, and of a plan for a comprehensive settlement in the region. The EU will continue to EU Enlargement. give every possible support to the democratically- elected Government of Prime Minister Fouad 123. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the negotiations he has held with Siniora. The Government will ensure that Ireland his European counterparts with regard to the also continues to respond effectively to the opening of labour markets to the citizens of humanitarian needs of the Lebanese people. Dur- Bulgaria following EU accession; and if he will ing the crisis, we committed a total of \2 million make a statement on the matter. [34425/06] in immediate emergency humanitarian assistance to Lebanon and the Occupied Palestinian Terri- tories. We have also pledged a further \2 million 145. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for for longer term reconstruction and assistance Foreign Affairs the negotiations he has held with over the coming two years. his European counterparts with regard to the opening of labour markets to the citizens of Question No. 121 answered with Question Romania following EU accession; and if he will No. 101. make a statement on the matter. [34424/06] 208. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Human Rights Issues. Foreign Affairs the preferred options within the 122. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for EU in relation to immigration from Romania and Foreign Affairs if he has received the full written Bulgaria in the context of enlargement; and if he report he requested from the US authorities will make a statement on the matter. [34839/06] regarding the incident of 11 June 2006 when a civilian aircraft landed at Shannon en route from Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): Kuwait to the United States carrying a US marine I propose to take Questions Nos. 123, 145 and prisoner, without the requisite Government con- 208 together. sent; if he has, will it be made public; the steps As Deputies will be aware, the Government the Government has taken to engage in further decided yesterday that Ireland would avail of the discussion, as promised, with the US authorities transitional arrangements with regard to labour on arrangements for notification and information market access which are provided for in the EU’s sharing, and the strengthening of verification pro- Accession Treaty with Bulgaria and Romania. cedures as necessary; and if he will make a state- This means that citizens of Bulgaria and Romania ment on the matter. [34486/06] will continue to require work permits in order to take up employment here after the two countries Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): accede to the EU in January next. As the Deputy will be aware, I took a very serious This decision was taken on the basis of careful view of this incident and I invited the US consideration of all the issues involved and fol- Ambassador to meet with me at the Department lowing consultations with the social partners. We of Foreign Affairs as soon as I was informed of also had extensive contact with other Member it. I received the US Government’s report of the States to determine their intentions with regard incident at the beginning of July. While the report to labour market access for citizens of Bulgaria is subject to the normal rules of confidentiality and Romania. that apply to communications between Diplo- Among the Union’s pre-2004 members, only matic Missions and Foreign Ministries, I can con- Finland — which holds the EU Presidency — has firm that the report provided a detailed descrip- announced that it will allow unrestricted labour tion of the events that led to the incident in market access from the date of accession. Others question, identified an apparent lapse in standard have indicated that they will impose restrictions procedures and indicated that the US Embassy and indeed a number of key countries have yet was evaluating possible remedial action and a to open up their labour markets to those Member readiness to work with the relevant authorities States that acceded in 2004. The British Govern- here to this end. ment, which did not impose any restrictions in Officials from the Department of Foreign 2004, has decided on this occasion to apply a Affairs have discussed arrangements at Shannon work permit requirement. This British decision with officials from the US Embassy at several was an important consideration in our analysis of meetings since the report was received. I under- the options for Ireland. stand that the US Embassy has taken steps aimed On the occasion of the last EU enlargement in at preventing any recurrence of this type of inci- 2004, Ireland was one of only three of Member 711 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 712

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Affairs the efforts being undertaken by his States not to restrict labour market access for citi- Department to work with counterpart Depart- zens of the eight acceding States from Central ments across the European Union to combat and Eastern Europe. As a result of this decision, human trafficking; and if he will make a state- a very large number of people from those coun- ment on the matter. [34413/06] tries have come to work here during the past two years. Indeed, Ireland has attracted a dispro- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): portionately large number of migrant workers The fight against trafficking in human beings is a compared with the other two EU countries that matter of urgent concern at EU and international opened their labour markets in 2004. For level. At the June European Council this year, example, we have taken in almost half as many Heads of State and Government identified this workers as the UK, which has a population 15 issue as a priority where further action is times greater than ours. required. Against this backdrop, and in the light of the A wide ranging action plan to deal with traf- intentions of our EU partners, our decision to ficking in human beings was adopted at the continue to require work permits for Bulgarians December 2005 European Council. Implemen- and Romanians was the prudent and proper tation of this plan, which covers areas such as the course of action to take in this instance. It means coordination of EU action, the prevention of traf- that workers from Bulgaria and Romania will be ficking and the prosecution of offences linked to able to come here when they fill a genuine labour trafficking, is being pursued through the Justice market need. and Home Affairs Council where Ireland is rep- resented by the Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Question No. 124 answered with Question Equality and Law Reform. No. 89. Human trafficking is also addressed in other international fora, including the Council of Nuclear Safety. Europe and the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), where Ireland 125. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for works closely with its EU Partners. A Council of Foreign Affairs the discussions on Sellafield and Europe Convention on Action against Trafficking nuclear power which took place at the British in Human Beings was agreed last year and Irish Intergovernmental Conference meeting in opened for signature in Warsaw on 16 May 2005. Hillsborough Castle in July 2006; and if he will An action plan on human trafficking was make a statement on the matter. [34484/06] endorsed by the OSCE in December 2003. Ireland is also a signatory to the UN Convention Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I on Transnational Organised Crime and its two discussed the issue of nuclear energy with Sec- accompanying protocols on smuggling and on retary of State Hain at the British-Irish Inter- prevention, suppression and punishment of governmental Conference on 25 July of this year. human trafficking. Human trafficking is, of We reaffirmed the commitment of the two course, primarily a criminal law matter and my Governments to the effect that nuclear power colleague, the Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, stations will not be built on the island of Ireland. Equality and Law Reform, is preparing legis- In this context, we agreed to work together to lation which will criminalise trafficking for the maximise the contribution of renewable and sus- purpose of sexual and labour exploitation in tainable energy to the future needs of the island. Ireland. Ireland has also, through Irish Aid, con- As regards Sellafield, the UK side are in no tributed over \1.7 million towards anti-trafficking doubt as to the Government’s position in relation projects carried out by, amongst others, the Inter- to the risks posed to Ireland by the facility. Our national Labour Organisation. views in this regard have been expressed strongly and repeatedly, including at the British-Irish Question No. 129 answered with Question Council Summit in London on 2 June this year No. 114. which I attended with my colleague, Mr Dick Roche T.D, the Minister for the Environment, Question No. 130 answered with Question Heritage and Local Government. At that meeting No. 101. we emphasised the Government’s concerns about Sellafield and nuclear safety generally. International Agreements.

Question No. 126 answered with Question 131. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Foreign No. 120. Affairs the outstanding issues which are to be resolved by the Government of Romania in prep- Question No. 127 answered with Question aration for EU accession; and if he will make a No. 111. statement on the matter. [34427/06] Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): Illegal Immigrants. The European Commission’s final monitoring 128. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Foreign report on the state of Romania’s preparedness for 713 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 714

EU membership was released on 26 September. ners in the EU are committed to the promotion The report gives the European Commission’s of a comprehensive settlement, with a negotiated assessment on Romania’s progress since May two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian con- 2006. It confirms that they have made further flict at its core. I stated in my address to the UN progress with their preparations for membership General Assembly on 26 September that such a and that they will be ready to join the European settlement is more urgently required now than at Union on 1 January 2007. However, the Com- any time in the past 60 years. mission’s report also identifies a number of areas The Government has consistently been active, of continuing concern and makes it clear that it directly with the parties, with our partners in the may take measures to ensure the proper func- EU and at the UN in encouraging the negotiation tioning of the Union unless appropriate correc- of a lasting, just and peaceful settlement based on tive action is taken. the co-existence of two sovereign and indepen- The further monitoring envisaged in the Com- dent States, Israel and Palestine. The EU has mission’s report will serve to ensure that the pace taken the lead under the Oslo Process, since 1993, of reform in Romania is maintained following its in supporting the establishment of the institutions accession. In particular the Commission has set of a future Palestinian State. The EU continues a number of benchmarks in the areas of judicial to impress on both Israel and the Palestinian reform and the fight against corruption, money- Authority the urgency of meeting their obli- laundering and organised crime where some pro- gations under the Quartet Roadmap and under gress has been made but further tangible results international law. In this regard, it is essential that are needed. Other areas which have been iden- Israel end the building of settlements, the con- tified for further scrutiny are the proper manage- struction of the separation barrier on occupied ment of EU agricultural funds and food safety. land and all activities which threaten to under- Romania has been strongly encouraged to make mine the viability of a two-State solution. We proper use of the months before accession in have stated very clearly that the EU will not order to address the remaining issues. The entry recognise any change to the pre-1967 borders of Bulgaria and Romania into the EU will com- unless they have been agreed between the parties. plete the Union’s 5th enlargement that was made My officials and I have consistently conveyed possible by the ending of the Cold War. Ireland these views in contacts with the Israeli Govern- looks forward to working with both countries in ment, and will continue to do so. making a success of the enlarged Union of 27 Following the democratic Palestinian elections members. in January, the EU and the international Quartet outlined clearly the principles under which the Question No. 132 answered with Question international community can engage with the No. 84. Palestinian Government. I deeply regret that, to date, the Hamas Government which was Foreign Conflicts. appointed in March, has not yet committed itself 133. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Foreign unambiguously to the peace process. The EU has Affairs the efforts he, his Department and the strongly supported the recent courageous efforts EU have made to ameliorate the suffering of the by President Mahmoud Abbas to negotiate the Palestinian people since the EU cut off financial formation of a Palestinian Government of aid to the Hamas led Government in 2006; and if national unity, committed to the negotiation of a he will make a statement on the matter. two-State solution. The process has proved [34480/06] extremely difficult, and has been undermined by the violence in the Occupied Territories since 137. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Foreign June and by the recent clashes between different Affairs if he will make a statement on the armed Palestinian groups. I have stated, however, ongoing failure of Israel to observe the human that if President Abbas is successful in forming a rights of the Palestinian people and in particular national unity Government based clearly on his the Israeli Government’s continuing policy of col- platform for peace and reflecting the Quartet lective punishment in Gaza; and if he will express principles, Ireland will argue strongly for a posi- the Irish people’s condemnation of Israel’s tive and creative political response by the EU. actions to the Israeli ambassador. [34512/06] Deputies will be aware that since April the Commission has suspended direct assistance to Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I the Government of the Palestinian Authority. propose to take Questions Nos. 133 and 137 However, the EU has taken the lead in the estab- together. lishment of the Temporary International Mech- The Government remains deeply concerned at anism to channel assistance directly to the the continuing crisis in the Occupied Palestinian Palestinian people. The Mechanism has been in Territories. The situation in Gaza in particular is operation since July, and the General Affairs and unsustainable. The events of recent months have External Relations Council in Luxembourg on 17 confirmed again that there are no military or uni- October welcomed the expansion of its remit, and lateral solutions to the interlinked problems of its extension until December 2006. The Mechan- the Middle East. The Government and our part- ism has focused on essential assistance in the 715 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 716

[Mr. D. Ahern.] Taoiseach has written to Mr Calderon to convey health sector, the provision of fuel, and support his congratulations and to wish him success in for the large number of Palestinian families confronting the important challenges which depending on low incomes. In fact, and contrary Mexico will face over the coming years, not least to what is widely believed, EU assistance to the those issues which have been highlighted by the Palestinians has increased significantly this year. long election process. I shall not be raising the To date in 2006, the EU has provided a total of conduct of the election with the Mexican \650 million in urgently needed assistance. Com- Ambassador in Dublin. munity assistance has risen to \330 million so far, about one third higher than the annual total in 135. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for recent years. Ireland’s bilateral assistance to the Foreign Affairs if his attention has been drawn to Palestinian people will increase by some 25% this the ongoing situation in Oaxaca in Mexico where year, to \5.4 million and the Government remains peaceful legitimate protestors have been intimi- ready to respond further as necessary. The with- dated, kidnapped and killed; and if he will contact holding by Israel of over \450 million in tax and the Mexican Ambassador in Dublin regarding customs revenues since April is the principal these incidents to highlight and put pressure on factor in the financial crisis facing the Authority. the Mexican Government to prevent an escal- The EU has repeatedly called on Israel to resume ation of such human rights abuses. [34511/06] transfers to the Palestinian Authority, if neces- sary through the Mechanism. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): The immediate priority now must be to end the The situation to which the Deputy refers con- humanitarian and security crisis in Gaza. We have cerns an ongoing state of unrest in Oaxaca in called clearly for an end to violence from all southern Mexico. In May 2006, an initially peace- sources and the release of the captured Israeli ful teachers’ pay-related strike developed into an soldier and the detained Palestinian legislators. increasingly violent and politicised protest, with The closure of Gaza must also be ended, through protesters forming the Asamblea Popular de los the re-opening of border crossing points for Pueblos de Oaxaca (APPO, or the Popular people and for goods. The EU is ready to play Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca). APPO took its part on the ground, including through the EU control of the centre of the city, as well as the Border Assistance Mission at Rafah. The EU will local radio and television station, bringing the also continue to press for an early and substantive state government to a virtual standstill within the meeting between Prime Minister Olmert and city. APPO has stated that it will only agree to President Abbas, with a view to the re-establish- negotiations aimed at ending the protest and ment of a credible political process based on the reopening the state’s 14,000 schools if the demo- essentials of the Quartet Roadmap. cratically elected state governor, Ulises Ruiz, is removed from power. At least five people are Human Rights Issues. known to have been killed during the course of the protests. 134. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for The Mexican Government has been making Foreign Affairs if his attention has been drawn to intensive efforts to resolve peacefully the the situation in Mexico where mass electoral situation in Oaxaca. Most recently, on 10 fraud has been alleged in the recent presidential October, lengthy negotiations were held in election of Mr. Felipe Calderon; and if he has Mexico City between representatives of the alerted or intends to contact the Mexican government, teachers’ union and APPO, at which Ambassador in Dublin to express concern regard- it was agreed that the state and municipal police ing the lack of transparency in this election. could resume their patrols in Oaxaca city under [34510/06] federal command. The teachers’ representatives also agreed to consult regarding the reopening of Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): schools, halting their strike and ending the occu- Given the disputed outcome of the Mexican pation of the city centre. However, the sub- Presidential election on 2 July, the European sequent rejection of these agreements by the pro- Union, and Ireland nationally, expressed no testers on 11 October sparked a fresh wave of immediate view on the result pending the com- violence, forcing the postponement of an assess- pletion of the relevant processes under Mexican ment visit by the Mexican Senate. law, although an EU Election Observation Mis- I am satisfied that the Mexican Government is sion concluded that the conduct of the election working to bring about a peaceful and democratic had been fair. Following the definitive ruling of end to the state of unrest, with incumbent Pres- the Mexican Federal Electoral Tribunal on 5 ident Vicente Fox highlighting the resolution of September declaring Mr Felipe Calderon the win- the dispute as one of his priorities before the ner of the election, the European Union con- completion of his term in office on 1 December. veyed its congratulations to the President-Elect Ireland, along with our European Union part- and urged all Mexicans to work for the future ners, monitors and regularly discusses with the development of the country and respect the Mexican authorities the human rights situation in framework of its democratic institutions. The Mexico and the fulfilment of their obligations 717 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 718 under international law. I have asked our agreed, comprehensive settlement, which will Embassy in Mexico to keep the situation under enable the people of Cyprus to live together as review. citizens of a united Cyprus in the European Union. Foreign Conflicts. Question No. 137 answered with Question No. 133. 136. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if his attention has been drawn to the financial and other economic impli- Human Rights Issues. cations for the Cypriot economy from the unilat- 138. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Foreign eral and punitive restrictions being imposed by Affairs if he will report on recent meetings with Turkey, an EU applicant member; and if he will Chinese Vice-Premier Zeng; if Amnesty Inter- make a statement on the matter. [34565/06] national’s recent report on human rights or other reports on human rights in China were raised Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): with Mr. Zeng; and if he will make a statement The relationship between Cyprus and Turkey is on the matter. [30641/06] fraught with a number of problems stemming from the division of the island between the inter- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): nationally-recognised Republic of Cyprus and the Chinese Vice-Premier Zeng Peiyan paid an Turkish controlled northern part. EU member- official visit to Ireland from 24-26 September. ship conferred a range of economic benefits on The Vice-Premier held official talks with the the Republic of Cyprus. Finding a solution to Ta´naiste and paid courtesy calls on the President Cyprus’s political problem would allow these and the Taoiseach. The Minister for Education benefits to be extended to all the people of the and Science, Ms. Mary Hanafin T.D., hosted an island. official dinner for the Vice-Premier and a busi- Following the referendums of 24 April 2004 on ness breakfast was hosted for him by the Minister the UN Secretary General’s proposals for a com- for Enterprise Trade and Employment, Mr. prehensive settlement, the General Affairs and Michea´l Martin T.D., in co-operation with External Relations Council (GAERC) agreed on Enterprise Ireland. The key objective of the visit the need to end the isolation of the Turkish was to build on the close and developing relation- Cypriot community and to facilitate the reunifi- ship between Ireland and China. cation of Cyprus by fostering their economic The official talks held with the Ta´naiste on 25 advancement. At its meeting on 27 February last, September enabled a detailed exchange of views the Council adopted a regulation establishing a on a wide range of bilateral, regional and inter- financial support instrument under which a total national issues and provided an opportunity to of \139 million will be made available to the discuss practical ways to further pursue our mut- Turkish Cypriot community in 2006 for the pur- ual interests. The discussion covered expanding pose of facilitating the integration of the island trade and investment and strengthening cooper- and promoting contact between the two com- ation at all levels, in particular practical co-oper- munities. ation in areas such as education, agriculture, The June 2006 European Council recalled the science and technology and research with a part- need for Turkey to fulfil its obligations under the icular focus on software development and bio- Association Agreement and its Additional Proto- engineering. col, which takes account of the accession of the The meeting also afforded an opportunity for new Member States, including the Republic of the Ta´naiste to raise human rights concerns with Cyprus. Turkey’s progress in fulfilling these obli- the Vice-Premier. Human rights issues are a con- gations, which include the need to recognise the stant and important point of dialogue with the economic, maritime and navigational rights of all Chinese authorities at both bilateral and Euro- EU Member States will be evaluated by the pean Union (EU) levels. For my part, I took the European Commission in a report that is due to opportunity to raise human rights issues and con- be published on 8 November. The Finnish Presi- cerns, including the importance we attach to free- dency is working on an initiative aimed at resolv- dom of speech and religion, when I met with ing the question of access to Turkish ports for Chinese Foreign Minister, Mr. Li Zhaoxing, dur- Cypriot vessels in compliance with the Ankara ing a visit to Beijing in May. FM Li referred in Protocol. We fully support these efforts by the particular to China’s commitment to the EU- Presidency and hope that they will lead to a China Human Rights Dialogue and was hopeful solution. that a decision would be taken to ratify the Inter- The United Nations has the lead role in the national Covenant on Civil and Political Rights search for a comprehensive settlement. The EU as soon as possible. and its Member States recognise the importance The EU-China Human Rights Dialogue is the of supporting the efforts of the UN Secretary agreed formal framework through which the EU General and are agreed that a just and lasting raises human rights issues and concerns with settlement would contribute to peace and stab- China. The latest round of the Dialogue was held ility in the region. Our shared objective is an in Beijing on 19 October. 719 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 720

[Mr. D. Ahern.] EU Accession. Senior officials from both sides discussed a 142. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for wide range of human rights issues. Special atten- Foreign Affairs the latest meetings and debates tion was given to questions related to combating concerning the proposed accession of Romania racism, freedom of expression and reform of the and Bulgaria to the European Union; the initiat- criminal justice system in China. The EU took ives or suggestions Ireland has made in this note of the commitment of China to ratify the regard; and if he will make a statement on the International Covenant on Civil and Political matter. [34495/06] Rights as soon as possible and, in that context, to reform its criminal justice system. The EU urged Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): China to continue co-operation with, and imple- The European Commission’s final monitoring mentation of the recommendations of, the UN report on the state of preparedness for EU mem- Special Rapporteur on Torture, including the bership of Bulgaria and Romania was released on rapid abolition of the “re-education through 26 September. The report gives the European labour” system. The EU expressed its deep con- Commission’s assessment of their progress since cern over the continuing restrictions on freedom May 2006. It confirms that they will be ready to of expression in China, including on the use of join the European Union on 1 January 2007. the internet. The EU further expressed concern However, the Commission’s report also identifies at the high number of human rights defenders, a number of areas of continuing concern and lawyers and journalists in prison and urged China makes plain its willingness to take the necessary not to harass or punish individuals exercising measures to ensure the proper functioning of the their right to freedom of expression in a peace- Union following their accession. ful manner. The General Affairs and External Relations Other subjects discussed included the recent Council (GAERC) meeting in Luxembourg on 17 incident on China’s border with Nepal, where October 2006 concluded that Bulgaria and Chinese soldiers opened fire towards a group of Romania will be in a position to take on the obli- Tibetans attempting to cross the border. The EU gations of membership on 1 January 2007. The side asked for clarification and urged China to Council commended both countries on the investigate the incident thoroughly. reforms they have undertaken in preparation for membership. The Council also underlined the Question No. 139 answered with Question importance of continued political commitment by No. 87. both countries to address the outstanding issues Question No. 140 answered with Question identified in the Commission’s report. The No. 89. Enlargement Working Group, which meets regu- larly in Brussels, will continue to monitor the two countries’ preparedness for membership. Overseas Development Aid. Throughout this process, Ireland has fully sup- 141. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for ported the Commission in its efforts to ensure full Foreign Affairs the moneys allocated to Irish Aid compliance with the requirements of member- for 2006; and if he will make a statement on the ship. We have urged both countries to make full matter. [34431/06] use of the period prior to accession in order to deal with the problem areas highlighted by the 150. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Commission. Foreign Affairs the projected increase in the We have also sought to provide practical sup- amount allocated to Irish Aid in 2007 compared port to both countries in their preparations for with 2006; and if he will make a statement on the membership. Bulgaria and Romania currently matter. [34430/06] benefit from the Department of Foreign Affairs’ Accession Training Programme and can continue Minister of State at the Department of Foreign to do so for a period following their accession. Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): I propose to take Ques- There is already a programme in place dedicated tions Nos. 141 and 150 together. to capacity-building in public administration in In September 2005, speaking to the United both countries and we are currently developing a Nations General Assembly in New York, the programme to promote transparency in recruit- Taoiseach committed Ireland to reaching the UN ment and promotion in the Bulgarian public target of 0.7% of GNP on Official Development sector. Assistance (ODA) to developing countries by 2012. Question No. 143 answered with Question An interim target of 0.5% was set for 2007. The No. 99. necessary provision will be made in the 2007 Estimates Volume to meet this commitment. The Question No. 144 answered with Question Estimates are currently being finalised and will No. 101. be published in due course. The total ODA budget for 2006 will amount to around \734 Question No. 145 answered with Question million. No. 123. 721 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 722

146. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for entered into force on 14 December 2005. To date, Foreign Affairs the outstanding issues which are eight Member States of the EU have ratified the to be resolved by the Government of Bulgaria in Convention. preparation for EU accession; and if he will make The House will recall that my colleague, the a statement on the matter. [34426/06] Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who has lead responsibility in this Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): area, has instructed his officials to examine the The European Commission’s final monitoring Convention with a view to identifying the neces- report on Bulgaria’s state of preparedness for EU sary legislation which will be required to enable membership was released on 26 September. The Ireland to ratify it. This examination, which is report gives the European Commission’s assess- ongoing, is being carried out in consultation with ment on Bulgaria’s progress since May 2006. It the Office of the Attorney General. The Depart- confirms that their preparations for membership ment of Justice, Equality and Law Reform will have advanced further and that Bulgaria will be advise when their internal procedures have been ready to join the European Union on 1 January completed. 2007. However, the Commission’s report also The aims of the Convention are to promote identifies a number of areas of continuing con- and strengthen measures to prevent and combat cern and makes plain its willingness to take the corruption more efficiently and effectively; to necessary measures to ensure the proper func- promote, facilitate and support international tioning of the Union if appropriate corrective cooperation and technical assistance in the fight action is not taken by Bulgaria. against corruption, including in asset recovery; The further monitoring envisaged in the Com- and to promote integrity, accountability and mission’s report will serve to ensure that the pace proper management of public affairs and public of reform in Bulgaria is maintained following its property. accession. In particular, the Commission has set a number of benchmarks in the areas of judicial Arms Trade. reform and the fight against corruption, money- laundering and organised crime. These are areas 149. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for where some progress has been made, but where Foreign Affairs if the ban imposed by Ireland in further efforts and tangible results are needed. July 2006 on the shipment of munitions through Other areas of concern highlighted by the Com- State airports to Israel, is still in place; if there mission are the proper management of EU agri- were requests for such shipments during 2006; cultural funds, food safety and aviation. Bulgaria and if he will make a statement on the matter. has been strongly encouraged to make proper use [34483/06] of the months before accession in order to address the remaining issues. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): The entry of Bulgaria and Romania into the Applications for the transit of munitions of war EU on 1 January 2007 will complete the Union’s are considered on a case-by-case basis. During 5 Enlargement made possible by the ending of the recent crisis in Lebanon, I made clear that the Cold War. Ireland looks forward to working permission would not be granted to any such with both countries in making a success of the application for the transport of munitions of war enlarged Union of 27 members. to Israel. The Government has since welcomed the cess- Question No. 147 answered with Question ation of hostilities in Lebanon and the ongoing No. 89. implementation of UN Security Council Resol- ution 1701. However, I am conscious of the con- Convention Ratification. tinuing difficulties in the region, including the 148. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Foreign unresolved situation in Gaza. Against this back- Affairs when Ireland will be in a position to ratify ground, any application for the transit of the United Nations Convention against Corrup- munitions of war will continue to be considered tion; the number of European Union countries on a case-by-case basis, with regard to all rel- that have ratified this Convention; the date at evant circumstances. which the Convention will come into force; and As regards actual applications in 2006, one the implications for both ratifying and non-ratify- application was received in May, from a civil air ing countries. [34489/06] charter company operating on behalf of the US military. In this case, permission was granted for Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I the transit through Shannon airport of a detach- refer the Deputy to my previous replies to similar ment of US troops, with their personal weapons, questions concerning the United Nations Con- on their way to participate in an exercise in Israel. vention against Corruption, most recently on 29 No other munitions were involved. This transit June 2006. The Convention was adopted by the predated the recent conflict in Lebanon. UN General Assembly in October 2003 and was signed on behalf of Ireland, when it opened for Question No. 150 answered with Question signature, in December 2003. The Convention No. 141. 723 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 724

Question No. 151 answered with Question Garda Equipment. No. 95. 155. Mr. J. Breen asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform further Question No. 152 answered with Question to Parliamentary Question No. 646 of 25 April No. 111. 2006, when the radio system in Ennis Garda Question No. 153 answered with Question Station will be replaced; and if he will make a No. 92. statement on the matter. [34692/06] Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Emigrant Support Services. Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): As outlined in my 154. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for response to the Deputy’s question of 26th April, Foreign Affairs if he will report on his recent trip the procurement of a Managed Digital Radio to New York and his meeting with the Irish Service has been undertaken by the Department Lobby for Immigration Reform and other groups of Finance on behalf of An Garda Sı´ocha´na, dealing with undocumented Irish in the United other blue light services and some non-commer- States; and if he will make a statement on the cial public bodies. The EU-based restricted matter. [34485/06] tender procedure currently underway is now at tender evaluation stage. When this process is Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I complete and a preferred bidder is selected, very much welcome the opportunity presented by implementation of the new system will my recent visit to New York on the occasion of commence. the United Nations General Assembly to also Implementation plans, including prioritisation meet with representatives of the Irish community. of stations, will be decided following the selection As the Deputy will be aware, the welfare of the of the successful bidder. Accordingly, it is not undocumented Irish in the US is a matter of deep possible for the Garda authorities to be definitive concern to the Government and one which I raise about the rollout plan for Ennis Garda station at in all of my dealings with key figures there. this stage. However, it is planned that implemen- On 27th September, I had a very valuable tation of the radio service will commence before meeting with the Irish Lobby for Immigration the end of this year and be substantially Reform (ILIR), an organisation that very effec- implemented within a two year period. tively represents the views of the undocumented Irish, and which the Government has been happy Proposed Legislation. to support financially. I have met with represen- tatives of ILIR on a number of occasions, both in 156. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Ta´naiste and the US and in Ireland, and know that they very Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform much appreciate the interest of the Government his plans to legalise fireworks; his views on and the Oireachtas in their work. During our whether this would ensure a safer use of the prod- recent meeting in New York, they provided me ucts currently being used illegally in this juris- with an update on their campaign. We also diction; and if he will make a statement on the exchanged views on developments in the immi- matter. [34720/06] gration reform debate and on the prospects for the undocumented Irish. I reiterated to them that Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and my efforts on behalf of the undocumented Irish Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The Explosives will continue to be an area of the highest priority Act, 1875, as amended by the Criminal Justice in the period ahead. Act, 2006, governs the importation, manufacture, I was also happy to meet again with representa- storage and sale of fireworks and under the Act tives of Irish Immigration Centres and the Coali- fireworks may only be imported into the country tion of Irish Immigration Centres. The infor- on foot of an importation licence granted by me. mation and advisory services that these centres It is current policy, in the interests of public safety offer are of great benefit to the more vulnerable and security, to restrict, to the greatest extent members of our community in the US, including possible, the availability of fireworks to the the undocumented Irish. Earlier this year I was general public. Consequently, licences are only happy to announce grants totalling US$1.183 mil- issued for the importation of fireworks for use in lion to these centres, an increase of 29% on last organised displays, conducted by year’s funding. “professional/competent operators”. Licences are In the period ahead, the Government will con- not issued for the importation of fireworks for tinue to strongly support measures that would sale to the general public. Last year I com- enable the undocumented to regularise their missioned research into the public’s attitude to status and have open to them a path to perma- current policy on the control of fireworks and the nent residency. In this regard, we warmly appreci- general conclusion of the research was that the ate the firm commitment to a comprehensive sol- public are generally in favour of the thrust of cur- ution that Senator Kennedy, Senator McCain and rent policy. I believe that our current policy others continue to pursue. strikes the right balance. 725 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 726

Conscious of the difficulties which the illegal The duties of Garda personnel at the scene of use of fireworks present each year around this collisions include rendering assistance to injured time and the distress they cause to people, partic- persons, and, if necessary, to procure medical and ularly the elderly, I introduced, in the Criminal spiritual aid and arrange for their removal to Justice Act, 2006, a number of amendments to hospital. Duties also include preserving the scene, the 1875 Act which provide for new offences, that is, preventing interference with vehicles, governing the illegal possession and use of fire- debris, tracks, marks, etc. until properly noted, works, and increased penalties. Under these new reducing traffic obstruction as soon as possible, provisions it is an offence: when necessary arranging for the temporary • to possess a firework with intent to sell or diversion of traffic and noting and collecting all supply, without a licence, available evidence at the scene. Collisions resulting in material damage will • to throw an ignited firework at any person usually only be investigated where an offence is or property, and disclosed, a State owned vehicle is involved or the • to light unlicensed fireworks in a public requirements of section 106 of the Road Traffic place. Acts 1961-2006 have not been compiled with, ie. there has been failure to remain at the scene of The penalty for such offences is a fine of up to a collision. \2,500 or 6 months imprisonment or both on I am also informed that the circumstances sur- summary conviction or a fine of up to \10,000 rounding any loss of life as a result of a road or 5 years imprisonment or both on conviction traffic collision are thoroughly investigated by An on indictment. Garda Sı´ocha´na in accordance with the instruc- The simple possession of fireworks without a tions set out in the Garda Code. The District licence is also an offence for which a person may Officer (Superintendent) for the area where a beliabletoafineofupto\10,000. fatal collision occurs is responsible for the investi- A Directive on control of fireworks is currently gation. S/he ensures sufficient and appropriate being debated in the EU. The objective of the Directive is to establish rules designed to achieve personnel are assigned to the investigation and the free movement of pyrotechnic that all aspects of the investigation are thoroughly articles/fireworks throughout EU Member States carried out. All events preceding the collision, while, at the same time, ensuring a high degree including the actions and activities of any driver, of protection for the consumer. When the passenger or pedestrian, as appropriate are fully Directive is finalised, all fireworks imported into enquired into. or manufactured or sold within EU Member Where necessary, full use is made of local and States, will be required to comply with certain national media for appeals for information from essential minimum safety standards. While the any person who may have witnessed the collision, Directive will allow the free movement, within or have information relevant to it. the EU Member States, of low hazard fireworks, (such as sparklers and party poppers), it will not 158. Mr. Gregory asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- preclude Member States from taking measures, ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if, which are justified on the grounds of public where a patrolling Garda car is close to the scene safety, security or public order, to prohibit or of a road traffic accident but is not from the restrict the possession, use or sale to the general Garda district in which the accident site is public of more hazardous and powerful fireworks. located, the patrolling Gardaı´ are prevented by a provision or regulation from attending at the Road Traffic Accidents. scene and taking the necessary details; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34722/06] 157. Mr. Gregory asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the functions of An Garda Sı´ocha´na when called to a Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and road traffic accident; and if, where there is evi- Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by dence at the scene of the accident that a breach the Garda authorities that there is no provision of the law had occurred for example careless or or regulation preventing a member of An Garda dangerous driving and one car on the wrong side Sı´ocha´na from investigating traffic collisions in a of the road, there is a duty on the part of the Garda District other than their own. However, Gardaı´ at the scene to investigate such matters while a patrol car may be close to the scene of a further. [34721/06] traffic collision, the crew of that patrol car may be attending to another call or incident, and may Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and not be in a position to attend immediately to the Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by traffic collision. the Garda authorities that collisions vary widely I am further informed that in the Dublin in nature and degree of seriousness and the Metropolitan Region calls are allocated through number of personnel who attend and the action the Computer Aided Dispatch System (CADS) taken will vary accordingly. in order of priority. 727 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 728

Garda Stations. on the sudden ending of this project, and which 159. Mr. Timmins asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- remains outstanding; and if his attention has been ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform further drawn to the fact that those who acted as agents to a parliamentary question (details supplied), the for his Department are claiming inability to pay priority which has been allocated to the purchase and that as a result the community worker of a site for a Garda station at Greystones in involved is being deprived of the award that has County Wicklow; and if he will make a statement been made to them by an independent statutory on the matter. [34753/06] authority. [34755/06]

Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): As the Deputy is Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The Bris Garda aware, the Garda authorities have recommended Youth Diversion Project terminated on 31 May, that a new Garda station be provided for Grey- 2005 as the result of the withdrawal of service by stones, and it is included on the Garda Building the employer who provided premises and staff to Programme. The Office of Public Works has been the project. The employer informed An Garda requested to consider the options available, Sı´ocha´na by letter dated 25 April, 2005 of the including the possibility of acquiring a new site, intention to withdraw from the project. to further progress this project. I would like to point out to the Deputy that The acquisition of sites, where required, is pri- the employer, in accordance with Garda Youth marily a matter for OPW and when their report Diversion Project Guidelines, has overall outlining the options for the development is responsibility for the staffing of the project and received, consideration can then be given on how for all employment related issues. best to progress this project. Following its closure, an independent eval- I should add that as with all projects on the uation of the Bris Project was commissioned by Garda Building Programme progress in relation the Garda authorities. The report of the eval- to a specific development is dependent on overall uation has been received by them and is in the agreed priorities. The Garda Building Prog- final stages of consideration by senior Garda ramme is progressed, and prioritised, with the management. Upon completion of their consider- cooperation and commitment of all concerned my ation of this report, they will forward their recom- Department, the Garda authorities and Rep- mendations to my Department, which will decide resentative Associations and the Office of Public on what steps to take. I look forward to early Works from whose Vote the capital works to receipt of these Garda recommendations. Garda properties are funded. Departmental Properties. Registration of Title. 162. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Ta´naiste and 160. Mr. Aylward asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the if, in recent times, property has been acquired or progress to date on a dealing (details supplied) in disposed of in the Dublin area by or on behalf of County Kilkenny. [34754/06] an agency (details supplied); the details of same and in particular the arrangements negotiated in Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and relation to a property (details supplied). Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I understand that [34795/06] the Land Registry has forwarded the information requested directly to the Deputy. Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and I would like to refer the Deputy to my letter Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The Reception of 26 May, 2006 to members of the Oireachtas and Integration Agency (RIA) of my Depart- regarding a new service for T.D.s and Senators ment is responsible for the accommodation of concerning the current status of Land asylum seekers and is obliged to provide Registry/Registry of Deeds applications. As out- sufficient accommodation at all times for this pur- lined in my letter, the service was introduced, pose. A total of 3,477 applications for asylum inter alia, to provide a speedier and more cost have been made to-date during 2006 and there effective alternative to submitting Parliamentary are currently 5,215 asylum seekers accommo- Questions. dated in 55 RIA centres throughout the State. As part of the management of this process, the Crime Prevention. RIA advertised in the national press on the 10th 161. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Ta´naiste and July, 2006 for “expressions of interest from per- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if sons interested in providing accommodation and his Department proposes to accept their ancillary services for asylum seekers”. In responsibilities as the funding agency for the Bris response to the advertisement an offer of the programme which was discontinued in the west accommodation in question was made to RIA. side of Galway City, in terms of their obligations The contractual arrangements in this case rep- to the community worker to whom an award was resent good value for money in the prevailing made on foot of the ending of their employment market conditions in Dublin and are in line with 729 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 730 other contractual arrangements for the provision cations are continually monitored and reviewed of such accommodation. along with overall policing arrangements and The centre will have an overall capacity for 250 operational strategy. This ensures that optimum persons for approximately 60-65 families. The use is made of Garda resources, and that the best centre opened on the 10th October, 2006 and the possible service is provided to the public. contract runs until the 24th December, 2012. To I should add that the current recruitment drive date a total of 21 families have been placed there. to increase the strength of the Garda Sı´ocha´na to The centre is not the largest in RIA’s portfolio — 14,000 members, in line with the commitment in there are seven other centres of similar or larger the Agreed Programme for Government, is fully size. No contracts for accommodation centres on target. This will lead to a combined strength, have been discontinued in Dublin in the last five of both attested Gardaı´ and recruits in training, months. of 14,000 by the end of this year. The first three groups of newly attested Gardaı´ under this accel- Garda Operations. erated recruitment programme came on stream in March, June and September of this year and the 163. Mr. Noonan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- fourth such group will become fully attested ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if members of the Force later this year. Further Garda horse patrols and dog patrols take place in tranches of approximately 275 newly attested Limerick; the stations to which they are attached; Gardaı´ will follow every 90 days thereafter until the method, frequency and locality of the patrols; the programme is complete. The Garda Com- and if he will make a statement on the matter. missioner will now be drawing up plans on how [34796/06] best to distribute and manage these additional resources, and in this context the needs of Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Limerick will be given the fullest consideration. Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I have been informed by the Garda authorities, who are Garda Deployment. responsible for the detailed allocation of resources, including personnel, that the personnel 164. Mr. Noonan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- strength (all ranks) of An Garda Sı´ocha´na ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if the increased to a record 12,762 on Friday, 8 Government will appoint an additional Assistant September, 2006, following the attestation of 249 Garda Commissioner to take charge of the force new members. This compares with a total in Limerick; and if he will make a statement on strength of 10,702 (all ranks) as at 30 June, 1997 the matter. [34797/06] and represents an increase of 2,060 (or 19%) in the personnel strength of the Force during that Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and period. The Garda Budget now stands at \1.3 Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I have been billion, a 13% increase on 2005 and an 85% informed by the Garda authorities, who are increase since 1997 in real terms. responsible for the detailed allocation of I have been further informed by the Garda resources, including personnel, that the personnel authorities that under Operation ‘Assist’, person- strength (all ranks) of An Garda Sı´ocha´na nel from Organisational Support Unit, including increased to a record 12,762 on Friday, 8 the Garda Mounted Unit and the Garda Dog September, 2006, following the attestation of 249 Unit, have been supplementing local Garda per- new members. This compares with a total sonnel in conducting daily patrols of the Moyross strength of 10,702 (all ranks) as at 30 June, 1997 estates of Limerick City since the beginning of and represents an increase of 2,060 (or 19%) in October. The patrols are generally of an eight- the personnel strength of the Force during that hour duration and are usually from late evening period. The Garda Budget now stands at \1.3 until the early hours of the following morning. billion, a 13% increase on 2005 and an 85% The patrols are dependent on requirements and increase since 1997 in real terms. issues arising in the general Moyross area and are I have been further informed that there is one at the discretion of local Garda management. Assistant Garda Commissioner assigned to the Garda management state that the Garda Dog Southern Region, which comprises the Divisions Units and Mounted Units are conducting these of Limerick, Cork City, Cork North, Cork West patrols from Mayorstone Garda Station and have and Kerry. provided excellent assistance to local Garda per- Garda management state that there is currently sonnel in the policing of the areas in question. no proposal to appoint an additional Assistant It is the responsibility of Garda management to Garda Commissioner to take charge of the allocate personnel to and within Divisions on a service in Limerick. priority basis in accordance with the require- It is the responsibility of Garda management to ments of different areas. These personnel allo- allocate personnel to and within Divisions on a cations are determined by a number of factors priority basis in accordance with the require- including demographics, crime trends, adminis- ments of different areas. These personnel allo- trative functions and other operational policing cations are determined by a number of factors needs. Garda management state that such allo- including demographics, crime trends, adminis- 731 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 732

[Mr. McDowell.] past four years; and if he will make a statement trative functions and other operational policing on the matter. [34798/06] needs. Garda management state that such allo- cations are continually monitored and reviewed Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and along with overall policing arrangements and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I have been operational strategy. This ensures that optimum informed by the Garda authorities, who are use is made of Garda resources, and that the best responsible for the detailed allocation of possible service is provided to the public. resources, that the personnel strength (all ranks) I should add that the current recruitment drive of An Garda Sı´ocha´na increased to a record to increase the strength of the Garda Sı´ocha´na to 12,762 on Friday, 8 September, 2006, following 14,000 members, in line with the commitment in the attestation of 249 new members. This com- the Agreed Programme for Government, is fully pares with a total strength of 10,702 (all ranks) as on target. This will lead to a combined strength, at 30 June, 1997 and represents an increase of of both attested Gardaı´ and recruits in training, 2,060 (or 19%) during that period. The Garda \ of 14,000 by the end of this year. The first three Budget now stands at 1.3 billion, a 13% increase groups of newly attested Gardaı´ under this accel- on 2005 and an 85% increase since 1997 in real erated recruitment programme came on stream in terms. March, June and September of this year and the I have been further informed by the Garda fourth such group will become fully attested authorities that the personnel strength of the members of the Force later this year. Further Limerick Division as at 31 December, 2002-2005, tranches of approximately 275 newly attested inclusively, and as at 23 October, 2006 was as set Gardaı´ will follow every 90 days thereafter until out in the table hereunder: the programme is complete. The Garda Com- missioner will now be drawing up plans on how Year Strength (all ranks) best to distribute and manage these additional resources, and in this context the needs of the 2002 460 Limerick area will be given the fullest con- 2003 474 sideration. 2004 482 2005 484 Garda Strength. 23/10/2006 522 165. Mr. Noonan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the I have also been informed that the personnel number of Gardaı´ by rank in the Limerick div- strength of each Garda Station, by rank, in the ision; the stations to which they are attached; the Limerick Division as at 23 October, 2006 was as way the numbers have changed in each of the set out in the table hereunder:

Stations C/Supt Supt Insp Sergt Gda Total 23/10/06

Henry St 1 1 6 23 184 215 Mary St — — — 1 3 4 Castleconnell — — — 1 3 4 Ardnacrusha — — — 1 2 3 Mayorstone Pk — — — 11 44 55 Roxboro Rd — 1 3 14 85 103 Patrickswell — — — 1 2 3 Ballyneety — — — 1 1 2 Caherconlish — — — — 2 2 Askeaton — 1 — 3 18 22 Adare — — — 1 2 3 Pallaskenry — — — — 2 2 Croom — — — 1 3 4 Foynes — — — — 2 2 Glin — — — — 1 1 Shanagolden — — — — 1 1 Rathkeale — — — 1 5 6 Bruff — 1 — 2 20 23 Kilfinane — — — — 1 1 Ballylanders — — — — 1 1 Hospital — — — 1 1 2 733 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 734

Stations C/Supt Supt Insp Sergt Gda Total 23/10/06

Bruree — — — — 1 1 Kilmallock — — — 1 4 5 Pallas — — — 1 2 3 Cappamore — — — 1 2 3 Murroe — — — — 2 2 Drumcollogher — — — 1 1 2 Newcastlewest — 1 1 4 24 30 Abbeyfeale — — — 2 11 13 Ballingarry — — — — 1 1 Tournafulla — — — — 1 1 Athea — — — — 1 1 Kilmeedy — — — — 1 1 Castletown — — — — — 0

TOTAL 1 5 10 72 434 522

In addition, I would point out to the Deputy that position in relation to permission to remain here the Division’s resources are further augmented for a person (details supplied) in County by a number of Garda National Units such as the Carlow. [34799/06] Garda National Drugs Unit, the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB), the Criminal Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Assets Bureau (CAB) and other specialised units. Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The person in It is the responsibility of Garda management to question was granted permission to remain in the allocate personnel to and within Divisions on a State under the revised arrangements for parents priority basis in accordance with the require- of Irish children born prior to 1 January 2005. ments of different areas. These personnel allo- Information received from the Garda National cations are determined by a number of factors Immigration Bureau indicates that the person including demographics, crime trends, adminis- concerned may not have made full disclosure of trative functions and other operational policing all the facts of his case when he made his appli- needs. Garda management state that such allo- cation under the above mentioned revised cations are continually monitored and reviewed arrangements. This matter is currently being along with overall policing arrangements and investigated and a decision on whether to grant operational strategy. This ensures that optimum him further periods of residency in the State will use is made of Garda resources, and that the best be made following the results of these inves- possible service is provided to the public. tigations. I should add that the current recruitment drive to increase the strength of the Garda Sı´ocha´na to 14,000 members, in line with the commitment in Garda Deployment. the Agreed Programme for Government, is fully 167. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- on target. This will lead to a combined strength, ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the of both attested Gardaı´ and recruits in training, number of Gardaı´ working in community policing of 14,000 by the end of this year. The first three in the Mountjoy station in 2005 and in 2006; the groups of newly attested Gardaı´ under this accel- ranking level of the Gardaı´; the number of them erated recruitment programme came on stream in focused on the Phibsborough area; and if he will March, June and September of this year and the make a statement on the matter. [34800/06] fourth such group will become fully attested members of the Force later this year. Further Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and tranches of approximately 275 newly attested Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I have been Gardaı´ will follow every 90 days thereafter until informed by the Garda authorities, who are the programme is complete. The Garda Com- responsible for the detailed allocation of missioner will now be drawing up plans on how resources, including personnel, that the personnel best to distribute and manage these additional strength (all ranks) of An Garda Sı´ocha´na resources, and in this context the needs of the increased to a record 12,762 on Friday, 8 Limerick Division will be given the fullest con- September, 2006, following the attestation of 249 sideration. new members. This compares with a total strength of 10,702 (all ranks) as at 30 June, 1997 Residency Permits. and represents an increase of 2,060 (or 19%) in 166. Mr. Kehoe asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- the personnel strength of the Force during that ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the period. The Garda Budget now stands at \1.3 735 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 736

[Mr. McDowell.] Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and billion, a 13% increase on 2005 and an 85% Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I have examined a increase since 1997 in real terms. transcript of the radio interview with the person I have been further informed that the number in question. However, it is not clear what, if any, of Community Gardaı´ (by rank) attached to allegations are being made. Accordingly, I am not Mountjoy Garda Station as at 31 December, 2005 in a position to make any substantive response. and 23 October, 2006 was as set out in the table hereunder: Departmental Bodies.

31/12/05 23/10/06 169. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Finance further to his reply to Parliamentary Question No. 151 of 18 October 2006, if he will instruct the Sergeant — 1 Hidden Economy Working Group to commence Garda 13 13 meetings immediately, rather than await the for- Total 13 14 mal ratification of Towards 2016; his views on requesting a brief annual report from this work- ing group that could contribute to the wider dis- I have also been informed that the number of cussion of the black economy; and if he will make Gardaı´ attached to the Community Policing Unit a statement on the matter. [34739/06] at Mountjoy Garda Station assigned to the Phibsborough area in 2005, and as at 23 October, Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): The 2006, was 2. Revenue Commissioners currently chair the Hid- It is the responsibility of Garda management to den Economy Monitoring Group and they advise allocate personnel to and within Divisions on a me that they intend convening the next meeting priority basis in accordance with the require- of the Group within the next few weeks rather ments of different areas. These personnel allo- than waiting for the formal ratification of cations are determined by a number of factors Towards 2016. As the Deputy will be aware rep- including demographics, crime trends, adminis- resentatives from the proposed new Office of the trative functions and other operational policing Director for Employment Rights Compliance needs. Garda management state that such allo- (ODERC) will join the Group. cations are continually monitored and reviewed Revenue also inform me that, having regard to along with overall policing arrangements and the remit of the Group emerging from Towards operational strategy. This ensures that optimum 2016 and the changed membership, they would use is made of Garda resources, and that the best intend proposing at the next meeting that a possible service is provided to the public. review of the Group’s Terms of Reference should I should add that the current recruitment drive be undertaken immediately. The matter of an to increase the strength of the Garda Sı´ocha´na to annual report from the Group will be considered 14,000 members, in line with the commitment in as part of that Review. the Agreed Programme for Government, is fully on target. This will lead to a combined strength, Decentralisation Programme. of both attested Gardaı´ and recruits in training, of 14,000 by the end of this year. The first three 170. Mr. Grealish asked the Minister for Fin- groups of newly attested Gardaı´ under this accel- ance the position regarding the decentralisation erated recruitment programme came on stream in of Revenue Commissioner positions to Newcastle March, June and September of this year and the West; and if he will make a statement on the fourth such group will become fully attested matter. [34740/06] members of the Force later this year. Further tranches of approximately 275 newly attested Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iam Gardaı´ will follow every 90 days thereafter until advised by the Revenue Commissioners that the the programme is complete. The Garda Com- Office of Public Works has secured a suitable site missioner will now be drawing up plans on how for the accommodation of 50 Revenue staff due best to distribute and manage these additional to decentralise to Newcastle West. An application resources, and in this context the needs of for planning permission has now been lodged Mountjoy Garda Station will be given the fullest with Limerick County Council. On receipt of a consideration. satisfactory planning permission the preferred tenderer will be instructed to submit working Northern Ireland Issues. drawings and a bill of quantities with a view to a contract being placed and work commencing on ´ 168. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Tanaiste and site. The indicative timeframe for completion is Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if the end of 2007. he shares the concerns of a member of the British As soon as the new accommodation is available House of Commons regarding the alleged activi- Revenue will be in a position to commence oper- ties of MI6 here (details supplied); and if he will ations in that office with immediate effect. make a statement on the matter. [34888/06] 737 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 738

In the interim, to provide appropriate training discretion of the Customs Service of the while minimising disruption to the ongoing busi- Revenue Commissioners. ness, temporary accommodation was set up in Customs experience has shown that flights and Limerick in July 2006 for staff due to transfer to types of passenger can be risk-rated quite accu- Newcastle West. rately, and checking is now mainly risk driven. In addition to risk driven checks, random checks are Tax Code. sometimes performed to validate the risk assess- ment. Anti-smuggling checks are targeted, and 171. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Finance are carried out by rostered staff or by on-call non- if he will review the liability of persons (details rostered staff depending on the availability of ros- supplied) in Dublin 11 for the payment of stamp tered staff, and on the number of officers duty on the purchase of a home; and if he will required. make a statement on the matter. [34789/06] Dublin Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iam Throughout the period in question Revenue informed by the Revenue Commissioners that as has had, and continues to have, officers rostered there are two purchasers in this case it is neces- on a 24/7 basis in Dublin Airport. sary for both to qualify as first time purchasers in order for the relief to apply. As one of the parties Shannon has not purchased a house or apartment pre- Up to the end of 2004, staff were rostered on a viously the relief applies to her in her own right. 24-hour basis and all flights were attended. A However, if the second partner had previously review of the risk associated with late-night purchased residential property in conjunction flights however prompted a change in 2005. with his former spouse, his qualification would be Since that change in 2005 there have been in dependent on him no longer retaining any general 17 flights per week outside of hours when interest in that property and his former spouse rostered staff were on duty. However those flights continuing to occupy the property. As the latter are monitored and checked as appropriate by condition is not met in this case, I am advised by non-rostered officers. the Revenue Commissioners that under the rel- evant legislation the first-time purchaser relief Cork will not therefore apply. All scheduled flights to Cork originate within the EU and are relatively low risk. These are State Airports. monitored and attended by non-rostered officers as required. There are 15 scheduled flights per 172. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Finance week Monday to Friday (3 per day x 5 days) that the number of flights per airport that arrived at arrive during hours that officers are not rostered. Dublin, Shannon and Cork Airports at times They are also monitored and attended by non- when no customs officers were rostered for duty rostered officers on a risk-management basis. for each year since 2002; and if he will make a Officers are rostered at weekends for a total of statement on the matter. [34883/06] 16 rostered hours. These rosters vary from week- end to weekend, depending on flight movements Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iam and profiling of those flights. The officers are ros- informed by the Revenue Commissioners that tered to attend at the times of highest risk. Given they do not have information on the numbers of the high level of activity at weekends it is esti- flight movements into and out of Cork, Dublin or mated that approximately 40 flights per weekend Shannon Airports going back to 2002. Such infor- arrive during hours that officers are not rostered mation is the property of the Airport Authority for attendance. As with all flights these are pro- rather than the Revenue Commissioners. It has filed and a proportion attended by non-rostered not been possible to get the same level of detail officers. on flight movements from the relevant authority for each airport, with the result that some Health Services. numbers in the response are estimated. Since 173. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for 1993 intra-Community travellers of EU countries Health and Children if her attention has been have had the right of free movement within the drawn to a company (details supplied) carrying EU. Customs authorities are not permitted to out activities in a residential area; her views on impose systematic checks on travellers whose whether this activity is in breach of health and point of origin is within the EU. In effect, intra- safety standards; if she will investigate this Community flights have been regarded as matter; and if she will make a statement on the domestic since 1993. Customs authorities can matter. [34741/06] impose selective checks for prohibited or restric- ted goods, but only on the basis of “reasonable Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): grounds for suspicion”. Flights from non-EU The Deputy’s question relates to a commercial countries are of course subject to checking at the entity for which I have no statutory responsibility. 739 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 740

[Ms Harney.] lems for older people, such as inappropriate However, I understand that the company has a over-nutrition. An achievement award scheme contractual relationship with the Health Service is also envisaged. Executive. Accordingly, my Department has requested the parliamentary affairs division of Furthermore, improving nutrition for older the executive to arrange to have this matter inves- people has been addressed by providing some tigated and to have a reply issued directly to the dedicated community dietetic posts through Deputy. home-care packages; the essence of care prog- rammes, which now include nutrition as a key Care of the Elderly. component; and pilot projects, such as the person centred project in the HSE Midland area, of 174. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Health which nutrition is a key component. and Children the progress that has been made in implementing the Food Safety Authority of Hospital Services. Ireland’s 2000 recommendations for a national food and nutrition policy for older people; and 175. Mr. Grealish asked the Minister for Health the nutrient and food based guidance her Depart- and Children the situation regarding progress to ment provides for those providing residential care develop a hospice, Alzheimer care and other for older people. [34742/06] facilities at St. Ita’s Hospital in Newcastle West; and if she will make a statement on the Minister of State at the Department of Health matter. [34743/06] and Children (Mr. S. Power): Making healthy and nourishing food choices easily accessible to older Minister of State at the Department of Health people in residential care can help reduce the and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Deputy’s ques- incidence of poor nutrition , under- nutrition or tion relates to the management and delivery of over-nutrition. My Department has drawn up an health and personal social services, which are the outline proposal for food served in health care responsibility of the Health Service Executive Facilities, as part of the implementation of key under the Health Act 2004. Accordingly, the Departmental strategies: the National Health Department has requested the parliamentary Promotion Strategy and Quality and Fairness — affairs division of the executive to arrange to have A Health System for You. this matter investigated and to have a reply issued This proposal includes residential care for directly to the Deputy. older people and is being delivered in 3 phases:

Phase 1: The Healthy Catering Guidelines for Child Care Services. Staff and Visitors in Healthcare Facilities. These guidelines, which will benefit staff and 176. Mr. Grealish asked the Minister for Health visitors in all Healthcare facilities, were pub- and Children the funding which has recently been lished in 2005 . An achievement award scheme made available to a centre (details supplied); the to encourage and assist Healthcare Facilities funding for cre`che facilities being made available; wishing to adopt and evaluate the implemen- the further funding being planned; and if she will tation of these guidelines, was launched in June make a statement on the matter. [34744/06] 2006 and is being coordinated by the Health Promoting Hospitals Network. Minister of State at the Department of Health Phase 2: Guidelines for Preventing Under- and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): As the Deputy is Nutrition in Acute Hospitals. aware, I have responsibility for the Equal Oppor- These guidelines will benefit all patients in tunities Childcare Programme 2000 — 2006 Acute Hospitals. These guidelines, which will (EOCP) and the National Childcare Investment be available later this year, have been Programme 2006 — 2010 (NCIP), which are developed with the Irish Nutrition & Dietetic being implemented by the newly established Institute, the Catering Managers Association Office of the Minister for Children. and Health Promoting Hospitals Network. An I understand that the Group in question has achievement award scheme to assist Healthcare submitted an application for additional capital Facilities in adopting these guidelines is also finding under the EOCP. I understand from planned. enquiries I have made that this application is Phase 3: Guidelines for Food and Nutrition under appraisal. Each application undergoes a in Long-Stay Healthcare Facilities. thorough assessment by Pobal, formerly known These guidelines will benefit all those in as Area Development Management Ltd., which long-term care, including residential care for is engaged to administer the Programme. older people. The guidelines will be developed Following completion of the assessment, the by an expert group of stakeholders in 2007. The application will be considered by the Programme Guidelines for Preventing Under-Nutrition in Appraisal Committee, before a decision is made Acute Hospitals will serve as a starting point regarding funding. The Group will be informed for these and will include other nutrition prob- of the outcome of the assessment in due course. 741 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 742

Medical Cards. and Children the number of people in County Mayo for 2005 and 2006 who have been awarded 177. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for supplementary welfare allowance for assistance Health and Children the position regarding a with the cost of cre`che fees; the cost of same; and medical card application for a person (details the amount awarded to each successful appli- supplied) in County Cork which was submitted at cant.. [34748/06] end of August 2006. [34745/06] Minister of State at the Department of Health Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): The question The Deputy’s question relates to the manage- relates to the management and delivery of health ment and delivery of health and personal social and personal social services, which are the services, which are the responsibility of the responsibility of the Health Service Executive Health Service Executive under the Health Act under the Health Act 2004. Accordingly the 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested Department has requested the parliamentary the parliamentary affairs division of the executive affairs division of the executive to arrange to have to arrange to have this matter investigated and to this matter investigated and to have a reply issued have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. directly to the Deputy. Hospital Services. Child Abuse. 178. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for ´ Health and Children the reason there was no den- 181. Caoimhghı´nOCaola´in asked the Minister tist available on a Saturday night at University for Health and Children if she will initiate a College Hospital, Galway to attend a person scheme of redress for people who suffered abuse (details supplied) in County Galway; the type of while in foster care; if her Department has contract there is between the hospital and private records of such cases; if representations have dentists; and if she will make a statement on the been received from people who suffered such matter. [34746/06] abuse; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [34749/06] Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The Deputy’s question regarding the way that Minister of State at the Department of Health children are assessed and deemed eligible for and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): As the Deputy orthodontic treatment relates to the management may be aware in 2002, the then Minister for Edu- and delivery of health and personal social cation and Science introduced the Residential services, which are the responsibility of the Institutions Redress Act. This legislation was Health Service Executive under the Health Act enacted to provide a mechanism for former resi- 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested dents of industrial schools, reformatories, the parliamentary affairs division of the executive orphanages, children’s homes and in certain to arrange to have this matter investigated and to situations special schools and hospitals to obtain have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. redress for injuries they suffered while so resident. 179. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for The rationale behind the setting up of the Health and Children the progress made by her Redress Board was that children in the residential Department in assessing the submissions made to institutions were separated from their parents it by the Health Service Executive regarding the and, therefore, did not have the benefit of the additional funding required to operate a CT care and protection which a child in the care of a Scanner unit at Ennis General Hospital; if her family usually enjoys. The institutions concerned attention has been drawn to the fact that this lack controlled all aspects of the children’s lives 24 of funding is impeding the project’s progress; and hours a day, 7 days a week with no reasonable if she will make a statement on the matter. capacity for access to or involvement by their [34747/06] parents. Therefore, the children in the institutions relied to a significant degree on the public bodies Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): that had a statutory duty to protect them. The Health Service Executive has responsibility During the passage of the legislation through for the planning and management of capital pro- both Houses the issue of including children who jects in the health sector, including the provision were in foster care was discussed and it was of a CT scanner at Ennis General Hospital. decided not to extend the legislation, as children Accordingly, my Department has requested the in foster care were not in a residential institution. parliamentary affairs division of the executive to It is not the intention currently to establish a arrange to have this matter investigated and to redress board dealing with foster care. However, have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. I wish to assure you that I am committed to ensuring that children placed in foster care receive the highest standard of care. Child Care Services. I am aware of correspondence from 3 individ- 180. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Health uals in recent times seeking the establishment of 743 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 744

[Mr. B. Lenihan.] 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested such a redress board and I have responded to the parliamentary affairs division of the executive these individuals in this regard. It is, of course, to arrange to have this matter investigated and to open to any individual to pursue their own have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. redress through the courts system should they wish. Medical Cards.

Health Services. 185. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Health and Children if her attention has been drawn to 182. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for the fact that persons with medical cards who Health and Children if her attention has been attend hospital and are issued with a prescription, drawn to the fact that students referred for ortho- must make an appointment and travel to their dontic assessment while in sixth class primary own general practitioner who must re-issue the school can be waiting three or more years for that hospital prescription on a green medical card assessment; the action she is taking to speed up form before the medical card holder can go to a this process to prevent further damage to these pharmacy and have the medication dispensed; the young people; and if she will make a statement reason this duplication of work is required; the on the matter. [34750/06] further reason a person who is ill has to wait until their GP can see them before starting their medi- Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): cation; if she will make arrangements to enable The Deputy’s question regarding the way that the medical card holder to go directly to a phar- children are assessed and deemed eligible for macy and have the medication dispensed; and if orthodontic treatment relates to the management she will make a statement on the matter. and delivery of health and personal social [34790/06] services, which are the responsibility of the Health Service Executive under the Health Act Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested As hospital doctors do not have General Medical the parliamentary affairs division of the executive Services contracts, prescriptions written by them to arrange to have this matter investigated and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. for medical card holders are not reimbursable under the GMS scheme. Such prescriptions must be transcribed by the patient’s GMS-contracted 183. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Health and Children the number of children wait- general practitioner to a GMS form. The pre- ing for orthodontic treatment in each Health scription can then be dispensed by a pharmacy Service Executive region; and if she will make a that holds a community pharmacy contract. statement on the matter. [34751/06] Under emergency dispensing arrangements, GMS patients can obtain a short term supply of a Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): hospital prescription from a community phar- The Deputy’s question regarding the way that macy, where it would not be possible or practical children are assessed and deemed eligible for to contact their GP within a reasonable period. orthodontic treatment relates to the management This administrative arrangement provides for and delivery of health and personal social greater auditability and security within the GMS services, which are the responsibility of the scheme. It also proves worthwhile because GMS Health Service Executive under the Health Act patients have greater contact with their general 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested practitioner after leaving hospital, establishing a the parliamentary affairs division of the executive valuable link between primary and secondary to arrange to have this matter investigated and to care services that might otherwise be less have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. frequent.

184. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Hospital Services. Health and Children when the recommendations of the report of the Joint Committee on Health 186. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for and Children on orthodontic services will be Health and Children if she will investigate the implemented; the progress made in this regard; cancellation of two appointments in respect of a and if she will make a statement on the person (details supplied) at a hospital in County matter. [34752/06] Cork. [34791/06]

Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The Deputy’s question regarding the way that The Deputy’s question relates to the manage- children are assessed and deemed eligible for ment and delivery of health and personal social orthodontic treatment relates to the management services, which are the responsibility of the and delivery of health and personal social Health Service Executive under the Health Act services, which are the responsibility of the 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested Health Service Executive under the Health Act the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Execu- 745 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 746 tive to arrange to have this matter investigated 2004. Accordingly, the Department has requested and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Execu- tive to arrange to have this matter investigated 187. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. Health and Children if she will arrange for the Southern Health Service Executive occupational Health Services. therapist, who visited a person (details supplied) in County Cork five to six weeks ago, to issue 190. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for their report without delay as this person requires Health and Children the position in relation to a same to apply to Cork County Council for a dis- person (details supplied) in County Wicklow; if abled persons grant in order to install a wheel- an appointment can be made as a matter of chair ramp access their home following injuries urgency; and if she will make a statement on the they received. [34792/06] matter. [34834/06]

Minister of State at the Department of Health Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Deputy’s The Deputy’s question relates to the manage- question relates to the management and delivery ment and delivery of health and personal social of health and personal social services, which are services, which are the responsibility of the the responsibility of the Health Service Executive Health Service Executive under the Health Act under the Health Act 2004. Accordingly, my 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested Department has requested the Parliamentary the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Execu- Affairs Division of the Executive to arrange to tive to arrange to have this matter investigated have this matter investigated and to have a reply and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. issued directly to the Deputy. Community Care. Hospital Procedures. 191. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Health 188. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for and Children the number of hours provided by Health and Children the reason a person (details the home help service, by county, for each of the supplied) was kept sitting in a chair in the acci- years 2002 to 2005; and if she will make a state- dent and emergency section of the Mater Public ment on the matter. [34884/06] Hospital, Dublin, on Monday 16 October, 2006, from 10 p.m. until 8 a.m. the following morning; Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): if her attention has been drawn to the fact that The Deputy’s question relates to the manage- this person was in the company of people who ment and delivery of health and personal social obviously were under the influence of alcohol; services, which are the responsibility of the and if she will make a statement on the Health Service Executive under the Health Act matter. [34793/06] 2004. Accordingly, the Department has requested Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Execu- The Deputy’s question relates to the manage- tive to arrange to have this matter investigated ment and delivery of health and personal social and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. services, which are the responsibility of the Health Service Executive under the Health Act National Treatment Purchase Fund. 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested 192. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Health the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Execu- and Children the number of patients who have tive to arrange to have this matter investigated received treatment under the National Treatment and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. Purchase Fund, on a county basis, each year since the establishment of the fund; and if she will Community Care. make a statement on the matter. [34885/06] 189. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Health and Children further to representations of 5 Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): October 2006 regarding a homecare package for As the Deputy’s question relates to the operation a person (details supplied) in County Limerick of the National Treatment Purchase Fund who has been granted the package but the appli- (NTPF) my Department has asked the Chief cation of which is unsatisfactory, if she will inves- Executive of the NTPF to reply directly to the tigate this; and if she will make a statement on Deputy in relation to the information requested. the matter. [34794/06] Hospital Procedures. Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The Deputy’s question relates to the manage- 193. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for ment and delivery of health and personal social Health and Children the reason a person (details services, which are the responsibility of the supplied) was left on a trolley at a hospital for Health Service Executive under the Health Act three days. [34886/06] 747 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 748

Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): maximum and these rates apply in all parts of The Deputy’s question relates to the manage- the country. ment and delivery of health and personal social The HSE has discretion to pay more than the services, which are the responsibility of the maximum rate of subvention relative to an indi- Health Service Executive under the Health Act vidual’s level of dependency in a case, for 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested example, where personal funds are exhausted. the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Execu- The application of these provisions in an individ- tive to arrange to have this matter investigated ual case is a matter for the HSE in the context of and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. meeting increasing demands for subvention, sub- ject to the provisions of the Health Act, 2004. The Hospital Services. average rate of subvention paid by the HSE gen- erally exceeds the current approved basic rates. 194. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Minister The supports paid by the HSE vary from person for Health and Children the extent to which to person and region to region, depending on blood-testing in the public hospital system is con- nursing home fees for example. tracted out to private laboratories; her Depart- Additional funding of \20 million was provided ment’s policy in this regard; if surveys of cost dif- for the administration of the Nursing Home Sub- ferentials between contracting out and carrying vention Scheme in 2006. The additional \20 mil- out work directly in public hospitals have been or lion is to support more basic nursing home sub- will be undertaken; the safeguards that apply to ventions and reduce waiting lists for enhanced ensure that the highest standard operating pro- subventions: it is also to bring more consistency cedures apply; if she has had discussions with the to subventions support throughout the country. Health Service Executive on this matter; and if The Health (Nursing Homes)(Amendment) she will make a statement on the matter. Bill 2006 is designed to ensure that the existing [34898/06] subvention scheme for private nursing home care is grounded in primary legislation and to help the Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): HSE to implement the scheme on a standardised The Deputy’s question relates to the manage- basis across the country. In addition, national ment and delivery of health and personal social guidelines on nursing home subvention are cur- services, which are the responsibility of the rently being developed by the HSE to ensure an Health Service Executive under the Health Act even and equitable application of the regu- 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested lations nationally. the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Execu- The Government is currently considering new tive to arrange to have this matter investigated policy on Long Term Care and several principles and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. underlying this were agreed with the social part- ners in “Towards 2016”. These principles include, for example, that there should be one standard- Nursing Home Subventions. ised national needs assessment for older people 195. Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for Health needing care. The use of community and home- and Children when her Department will make based care should be maximised. Sheltered hous- enhanced subvention available to the people of ing options will be encouraged. Where residential County Mayo; her views on whether the people care is required, it should be quality care and of Mayo are being discriminated against as these there should be appropriate and equitable levels payments are available in the east and south of of co-payment by care recipients based on a the country; the reason same has happened; the national standardised financial assessment. The further reason it has happened on a long term level of support for residential care should be basis; when this service will be restored; and if she indifferent as to whether that care is in a public will make a statement on the matter. [34899/06] or private facility. The financial model to support any new arrangements must also be financially Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): sustainable. As the Deputy may be aware, the Health The Department is currently drawing up pro- (Nursing Homes) Act 1990 and the Nursing posals as agreed with the social partners in Homes Regulations 1993 provide for the payment “Towards 2016”. of subvention for private nursing home care for applicants who qualify on both medical and Health Services. means grounds. General rules for the assessment 196. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Minister of means in respect of an application for nursing for Health and Children if her attention has been home subvention are set out in the Second Sched- drawn to the shortage of chiropodists here, in ule of the Nursing Homes Regulations 1993, as particular, the lack of training facilities for chi- amended by the 2005 Regulations. There are cur- ropodists and the fact that very few practising chi- rently three rates of subvention payable, i.e. ropodists will take medical card payments, in part \114.30, \152.40 and \190.50 for the three levels due to a dispute with the Health Service Execu- of dependency which are medium, high and tive over fees and payments; the knock-on effect 749 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 750 this has on the health and well-being of senior Minister for Communications, Marine and citizens and those with diabetes; the steps she is Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The taking to resolve this problem; and if she will Department of Communications Marine and make a statement on the matter. [34900/06] Natural Resources maintains a watching scientific brief on health issues relating to non–ionising Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): radiation including those related to mobile The FA´ S “Healthcare Skills Monitoring Report” phones. The limits for emissions from mobile (2005) provided a quantitative analysis of telephone masts (non-ionising radiation) are glo- demand and supply in 21 health care occupations bal limits established internationally by the Inter- including Chiropody/Podiatry. It highlighted pod- national Commission for Non Ionising Radiation iatry as among those professions where current Protection (ICNIRP). My Department is advised and future supply shortages should be addressed that there is currently no scientific medical evi- and recommended that a School of Podiatry pro- dence that emissions from mobile telephone viding 20 to 30 places be established. Meetings masts, which comply with the levels outlined in are continuing at an official level between my the ICNIRP Guidelines, are injurious to health. Department, the Department of Education and These guidelines are set at levels which are Science, the Higher Education Authority and the many times less than the experimental levels at Health Service Executive to progress the matter. which no adverse effects have been established. Responsibility for its establishment will be a Ireland has adopted the guidelines established by matter, in the final instance, for the Department ICNIRP. All licensed telecommunications oper- of Education and Science. ators in Ireland are required by the terms of their There is no statutory obligation on the Health licences to observe international guidelines on Service Executive (HSE) to provide chiropody the limits of emissions from telecommunications services to GMS patients; however in practice masts. Compliance with these guidelines is a arrangements are made to provide these services. matter for the Commission for Communications Before the establishment of the HSE the nature Regulation (ComReg). of the arrangements for chiropody and the level The Government approved the establishment of service provided was a matter for individual of an inter-Departmental committee on the health boards and so a degree of variation in health effects of electromagnetic fields in practice developed over time. Priority is usually September 2005. The committee is chaired by my given to certain groups of people, including Department and will provide advice to the people who are medical card holders aged 65 Government on the appropriate action to be years and over. In several regions the service is taken on foot of recommendations contained in provided by private chiropodists by arrangement the report “Non-Ionising Radiation from mobile with the HSE. phones handsets and masts”, published in June 2005 by the Joint Oireachtas Committee on I consider that it is inappropriate for private Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. chiropodists who are providing services on behalf This committee has overseen the establishment of of the HSE to charge patients a top-up fee, and I an expert group on the health effects of electro- have conveyed this view formally to the HSE. My magnetic fields, which has undertaken a thorough Department requested the HSE to review the fee review of the latest scientific reports and will arrangements in place for the provision of chirop- report to the inter-departmental committee on ody services, with a view to ensuring that such the current scientific consensus and science-based additional fees will no longer be levied on persons policy. The inter-Departmental committee in receipt of this service. This process has been expects to report to Government later this year. underway for some time and considerable pro- gress has been made. Aquaculture Licences. My Department is currently preparing legis- lation to clarify and update existing legislation on 198. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for eligibility for health and personal social services. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources The Bill will define specific health and personal the discussions that have taken place or that are services more clearly; define who should be eli- intended to take place to advance with local fish- gible for what services; set out clear criteria for ermen the legislation planned for the Foyle, eligibility; establish when and in what circum- which will update that which was originally stances charges may be made and provide for an enacted in the 1950s. [34727/06] appeals framework. Minister of State at the Department of Mobile Telephony. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. Browne): As the Deputy will be aware the 197. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for Department is engaged in detailed discussions Communications, Marine and Natural Resources with the Northern Ireland Department of Agri- the health implications for residents who live near culture and Rural Development (DARD) in large mobile phone masts; and if he will make a relation to a Bill which will confer additional statement on the matter. [34887/06] powers on the Loughs Agency of the Foyle and 751 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 752

[Mr. Browne.] 16(3A) and 14(1A) of the Act, the construction Carlingford Irish Lights Commission as envisaged or reconstruction and the generation of electricity in the British Irish Agreement Act 1999. In the from such generating stations will be subject to course of finalising the draft Bill, DARD has con- the terms and conditions as may be specified in sulted with all stakeholders on the proposed the relevant Order. implementation plan for the licensing of aquacul- I am advised that the CER is currently ture activities in the Foyle. reviewing the process for the granting of authoris- In addition, there will be a further statutory ations and licenses. It is holding a public consul- consultation process in Northern Ireland when tation in this regard and has published a consul- the draft Northern Ireland Order is published and tation paper on its website at this will afford all stakeholders an opportunity to http://www.cer.ie/cerdocs/cer06195.pdf. Interested make submissions on the draft legislation. In parties have been invited to contact the CER Ireland, the legislation will be published in the before 27 October 2006. normal manner and stakeholders can make rep- resentations to the Minister or their elected rep- 200. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for resentative in the usual way. Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the reason the Commissioner for Energy Regu- Electricity Generation. lation has ruled out the use of net metering to deal with the issue of spill into the grid. 199. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for [34783/06] Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the equipment that generates electricity which Minister for Communications, Marine and requires a licence from the CER to operate and Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The the circumstances of same; and if he will make a Government is committed to developing statement on the matter. [34772/06] domestic scale renewable electricity and heat technologies. Sustainable Energy Ireland (SEI) Minister for Communications, Marine and has undertaken work on Metering Options for Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): Section 16 Small Scale Renewable and CHP Electricity Gen- of the Electricity Regulation Act 1999 (the Act) eration. The study identified a number of areas prescribes that a person shall not construct or which require further analysis including the reconstruct a generating station unless an author- ability of such processes to secure adequate pay- isation has been granted by the Commission for ment for their exports, a review of connection Energy Regulation (CER). standards and processes for smaller generators, The conditions under which the CER may and the implications of the Single Electricity grant or refuse to grant a license to generate elec- Market for small-scale electricity generation. tricity are prescribed out in Section 14 (1) of the These technical and administrative issues are Act, as amended by sections 32 and 16 of the currently being addressed, and my Department is European Communities (Internal Market in working with the relevant agencies, including Electricity) Regulations 2000 and 2005 respec- SEI, the Commission for Energy Regulation tively (SI 445 of 2000 and SI 60 of 2005). (CER), ESB Networks and the Electro-Technical I am advised that under the existing application Council of Ireland in this regard. process, applicants must provide certain infor- As part of the ongoing work to progress this mation to the CER as set out in the application area, the CER has recently launched a public forms and guidance notes published on the consultation on arrangements for micro gener- CER’s website. This process provides that appli- ation which deals with metering issues. cations regarding generating stations below 5 We are working to ensure that the appropriate MW need not be accompanied by the same finan- administrative, technical and safety standards and cial information as those above 5MW. practices are in place to underpin programmes for This reduced information requirement is in line the widespread deployment of micro generation with Section 17 (2B) of the Act as inserted by technologies. I am confident that appropriate sol- Regulation 14 (c) of SI 60 of 2005, which requires utions suited to the context of the Irish electricity that the CER ensures that authorisation pro- grid and for non-grid connected technologies will cedures for small generators and distributed gen- be developed with a view to progressing this eration take into account their limited size and emerging sector. potential impact. Applications for an authorisation are assessed 201. Ms Harkin asked the Minister for under the criteria stated in SI 309 of 1999 Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Electricity Regulation Act (Criteria for Determi- the extent of the CER’s authority to require nation of Authorisations) Order, 1999). Follow- owners and operators of generators of all types ing the amendments to the Act arising from SI 60 to apply to the CER for a licence; and if he will of 2005, the CER may now licence the generation make a statement on the matter. [34836/06] of electricity and authorise the construction or reconstruction of a class or classes of generating Minister for Communications, Marine and stations by way of Order. As outlined in Sections Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): Section 16 753 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 754 of the Electricity Regulation Act 1999 (the Act) Member States have ratified by parliamentary prescribes that a person shall not construct or means. Finland is expected to complete its ratifi- reconstruct a generating station unless an author- cation procedures in the coming months. As the isation has been granted by the Commission for House is aware, the Constitutional Treaty was Energy Regulation (CER). rejected in referendums held in France and the The conditions under which the CER may Netherlands last year. grant or refuse to grant a license to generate elec- Following the referendum results in France and tricity are prescribed out in Section 14 (1) of the the Netherlands, the European Council initiated Act, as amended by sections 32 and 16 of the a period of reflection in order to allow time for European Communities (Internal Market in further consideration of how to proceed with the Electricity) Regulations 2000 and 2005 respec- Constitutional Treaty. In June 2006, the Euro- tively (SI 445 of 2000 and SI 60 of 2005). pean Council agreed to extend the reflection I am advised that under the existing application period for another year and to focus also on the process, applicants must provide certain infor- Union’s delivery of tangible results to EU mation to the CER as set out in the application citizens. forms and guidance notes published on the The European Council also mandated the CER’s website. This process provides that appli- Presidency to consult extensively with Member cations regarding generating stations below 5 States and to present a report to the European MW need not be accompanied by the same finan- Council in June 2007. That report is to contain an cial information as those above 5MW. assessment of the state of discussions with regard This reduced information requirement is in line to the Constitutional Treaty and to explore pos- with Section 17 (2B) of the Act as inserted by sible future developments. The report is intended Regulation 14 (c) of SI 60 of 2005, which requires to allow the European Council to point the way that the CER ensures that authorisation pro- forward towards decisions on the Constitutional cedures for small generators and distributed gen- Treaty, which are expected to be taken during the eration take into account their limited size and second half of 2008 at the latest. potential impact. In line with its mandate from the European Applications for an authorisation are assessed Council, the Finnish Presidency is currently hold- under the criteria stated in SI 309 of 1999 ing a series of bilateral consultations with (Electricity Regulation Act (Criteria for Determi- Member States. In these discussions, Ireland re- nation of Authorisations) Order, 1999). Follow- iterated our strong commitment to the Treaty as ing the amendments to the Act arising from SI 60 agreed by Heads of State and Government in of 2005, the CER may now licence the generation 2004, and affirmed also our readiness to proceed of electricity and authorise the construction or with ratification once there is clarity on the way reconstruction of a class or classes of generating forward at EU level. The Presidency was also stations by way of Order. As outlined in Sections advised of our view that the Constitutional Treaty 16(3A) and 14(1A) of the Act, the construction is a carefully constructed package and remains or reconstruction and the generation of electricity the best available option for equipping the Union from such generating stations will be subject to with the means to meet the challenges facing us the terms and conditions as may be specified in now and into the future. For this reason, we the relevant Order. believe that any attempt to alter the essential I am advised that the CER is currently balance and substance of the draft Treaty would reviewing the process for the granting of authoris- be unlikely to succeed. ations and licenses. It is holding a public consul- tation in this regard and has published a consul- Decentralisation Programme. tation paper on its website at http://www.cer. ie/cerdocs/cer06195.pdf. Interested parties have 204. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Foreign been invited to contact the CER before 27 Affairs the number of principal and senior October 2006. development specialists volunteering to decentralise with Irish Aid; and if he will make a Question No. 202 answered with Question statement on the matter. [34717/06] No. 112. Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): Three Principal EU Treaties. Development Specialists serve in Irish Aid head- 203. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Foreign quarters in Dublin. None of the three has applied Affairs the position with regard to the EU Consti- to decentralise to Limerick. tutional Treaty; and if he will make a statement There are twelve Senior Development Special- on the matter. [34716/06] ists at Irish Aid headquarters. None of the twelve is applying to decentralise to Limerick, though Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): two originally did so, but subsequently withdrew To date, fifteen Member States have ratified the their applications. Constitutional Treaty. Luxembourg and Spain Finally, there are nine Development Specialist have done so by referendum while thirteen posts at headquarters. At present five specialists 755 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 756

[Mr. C. Lenihan.] number of specialists will, in time, volunteer to are scheduled to decentralise, four who com- decentralise to Limerick. menced employment since the announcement of the decentralisation programme in December Cross-Border Projects. 2003, and one who applied via the Central Appli- cations Facility. 205. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for There is an ongoing Labour Court case regard- Foreign Affairs the reason for the delay in open- ing the terms and conditions under which techni- ing a Border crossing (details supplied) in County cal grades are employed in various areas of the Donegal which is holding back economic public service, including the specialists employed development potential; the way funding can be by Irish Aid. Technical staff employed by accessed to bring the road and bridge back up to Government Departments and Offices, including a proper standard; and if he will make a state- ment on the matter. [34724/06] specialists and other fixed-term workers employed in Irish Aid, brought cases to the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): Rights Commissioner under the Protection of The Government is of the view that all the Employees (Fixed-Term Work) Act 2003. The remaining Border crossings closed by the British case, which involves complex legal issues, has authorities on grounds of security should be been referred to the European Court of First reopened as part of the wider process of security Instance. normalisation in Northern Ireland, and in order Some of the issues involved in the decentralis- to facilitate regional economic development. ation of Irish Aid to Limerick have, therefore, a We have raised the status of the crossing in wider Civil Service dimension and must be question with the British authorities through the resolved at the central level. Discussions are on- British Irish Intergovernmental Secretariat and going with representatives of the specialists, with will revert to the Deputy with further information their union IMPACT, and with the Department as soon as possible. of Finance about the issues involved. Decentralisation is a Government decision and 206. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for the Government is committed to moving ahead Foreign Affairs the discussions he has had with with its implementation. At present 47 posts in his counterpart in the North of Ireland to advance the Directorate are filled by officers who have the development of the A5 road from Aughna- signalled their intention to decentralise to cloy to Derry, in view of the fact that improve- Limerick. A further 17 officers who are serving ments have already occurred on the N2 form elsewhere in the Department, mostly abroad, are Dublin to Aughnacloy; and if he will make a also expected to decentralise to Limerick and will statement on the need for an integrated approach be taking up duty in Irish Aid in advance of the north and south to the development of a road of move. In addition, 21 officers from other Depart- the same standard into the north west that is ments who have applied to decentralise to already being progressed through the National Limerick, most of whom are currently based in Development Plan for the rest of the island, provincial locations, will transfer to the Depart- including Belfast. [34725/06] ment closer to the date of the move. Once these officers take up duty in Irish Aid, 85 posts (69% Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I of the Directorate’s staff complement) will be in have actively pursued co-operation on the econ- place. omic development of the North West in my dis- A small number of staff, approximately 15 at cussions with Secretary of State, Peter Hain. entry grades, will be recruited for direct assign- Earlier this year we launched the North West ment to Limerick in the months preceding the Gateway Initiative. This Initiative covers cross- move. Border co-operation in a wide range of sectors Almost all of the senior management team for from enterprise development to health and edu- Limerick will be in place by the end of this year. cational services in the region. The Initiative also The Director General of Irish Aid has already included a commitment to examine the potential indicated that he will decentralise to Limerick. for joint investment in key infrastructure projects. There are now five Counsellors in place in the In line with that commitment, the respective Directorate, who have volunteered to go to roads agencies North and South have undertaken Limerick and a further three Counsellors will some preliminary research on potential road take up duty over the next two months. The chan- infrastructure projects which would benefit cross- geover of the senior management team, just as in Border routes in general and the North West in other grades, has been implemented in a planned particular. This research included both the N2/A5 and careful way so as to minimise disruption to route from Dublin to Derry and the A6 from the business of the Directorate. Belfast to Derry. The initial results of that While there are challenges ahead, management research are being considered by the two and staff are working effectively together to Governments. maintain the quality and integrity of the prog- Both Governments recognise that the upgrad- ramme. It would be my hope that a greater ing of the road network is essential to the future 757 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 758 prosperity and competitiveness of the North Foreign Conflicts. West. 213. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the degree of discussion that has Departmental Offices. taken place at EU or UN level in regard to the 207. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Foreign situation in Afghanistan; and if he will make a Affairs his views on locating a passport office for statement on the matter. [34844/06] the western region in County Mayo, particularly with the success of the regional airport. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): [34774/06] The EU General Affairs and External Relations Council, at its meeting on 30-31 January, adopted Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): conclusions which welcomed the proposed launch While there are no plans at present to open of the Afghanistan Compact and reaffirmed the further passport offices, it is the policy to keep EU’s commitment to long-term support for the the operation of the passport service under on- Government and people of Afghanistan through going review. Afghan-led reconstruction efforts. As background, I should say that the majority The Afghanistan Compact was launched at the of passports are now issued through the Passport International Conference on Afghanistan in Express service which is operated jointly by my London on 31 January/1 February and was Department and An Post. This service is avail- endorsed by the United Nations Security Council able in over 1,000 post offices throughout the in Resolution 1659 on 15 February. The Compact State. Overall, more than 90% of all passports are will guide the joint efforts of the Afghan Govern- ment and the international community in meeting processed within 10 working days. outstanding challenges across three pillars of In response to the ever increasing demand for activity: security; governance; rule of law and passports in recent years, as well as requirements human rights, and economic and social develop- for higher security standards, and a commitment ment. Counter-narcotics was identified as a cross- to offer our citizens the most effective possible cutting priority in the Compact. The Compact service, the passport issuing system has been notes that Afghanistan’s transition to peace and going through a process of modernisation and stability is not yet assured and that strong inter- upgrading. A new Automated Passport System national engagement will be required to address was introduced in late 2004, in the new Passport remaining challenges. Ireland pledged \5 million Production facility in Balbriggan, Co. Dublin, fol- at the launch of the Compact, which will be lowed by the main Passport Office in Molesworth expended over the next two years. Ireland has Street in January 2005. The system was extended contributed a total of \22 million to reconstruc- to the Cork and London Passport Offices in late tion and recovery programmes in Afghanistan 2005 and to all our Missions abroad during 2005 since January 2002. and 2006. Our new passport booklet is one of the Within the EU, discussions are currently taking most secure in the world and has been widely place at working group level on possible further admired. EU support for the rule of law sector in The ePassport was launched on 16 October Afghanistan. 2006 and represents the final phase of the project The UN Security Council adopted Resolution to update the passport issuing process to ensure 1707 on 12 September 2006 extending the man- that Irish passports meet the highest international date of the International Security Assistance standards, in particular with regard to security Force in Afghanistan (ISAF) until October 2007. features. It will also ensure that Irish citizens can ISAF is an UN Chapter VII operation originally continue to avail of visa free travel to the mandated by UN Security Council Resolution United States. 1386 of 20 December 2001. The Resolution auth- The Department is also working on developing orised “the establishment for 6 months of an online facilities to enable applicants to track the International Security Assistance Force to assist progress of their application over the internet. the Afghan Interim Authority in the maintenance This facility will be available imminently. of security in Kabul and its surrounding areas, so that the Afghan Interim Authority as well as the Question No. 208 answered with Question personnel of the United Nations can operate in No. 123. a secure environment”. Subsequent UN Security Council Resolutions extended the period of auth- Question No. 209 answered with Question orisation of the Force. Resolution 1510 of 13 No. 110. October 2003 authorised expansion of the Mis- sion’s geographical area “outside of Kabul and its Questions Nos. 210 and 211 answered with environs”. ISAF is not a UN force, however. Question No. 109. Rather it is a coalition of NATO members and other contributing nations deployed under the Question No. 212 answered with Question authorisation of the UN Security Council. In No. 103. exercising its mandate, ISAF works in close con- 759 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 760

[Mr. D. Ahern.] its highest level with over 40 million people now sultation with the democratically elected Govern- infected. More than three million people died of ment of Afghanistan. Seven members of the Per- AIDS related illnesses in 2005 including more manent Defence Force currently serve in ISAF. than 500,000 children. Sub-Saharan Africa is On 23 March, the UN Security Council decided home to more than 60% of all people living to extend the mandate of the UN Mission in with HIV. Afghanistan (UNAMA) for a further 12-month In addition to a long term sustained attack on period. UNAMA’s mandate includes assisting in poverty, a rapid increase in the scale and scope implementation of the Afghanistan Compact, of HIV prevention programmes is urgently promoting human rights, providing technical needed to stop the speed at which new infections assistance, and managing all UN humanitarian are occurring. This needs to take place in the con- relief, recovery, reconstruction and development text of a comprehensive response to HIV and activities in coordination with the Afghan AIDS, which requires the simultaneous acceler- Government. ation of treatment and prevention efforts with the The UN Security Council was briefed on the ultimate goal of universal access to prevention, situation in Afghanistan on 9 October and treatment and care. announced that it would send a Council del- Ireland has a very strong commitment to egation, at an appropriate time, possibly in addressing HIV/AIDS. This has been reaffirmed November, to review the situation on the ground in the White Paper on Irish Aid. HIV/AIDS is a and to reassure Afghanistan of the international key priority for Irish Aid’s policies and prog- community’s support. rammes. Following the commitment made by the Taoiseach in his speech to the United Nations in Overseas Development Aid. September 2005, funding for HIV/AIDS and 214. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for other communicable diseases has increased to \ Foreign Affairs the degree of success achieved to 100 million in 2006. date in dealing with HIV and AIDS throughout Ireland will continue to work with the inter- the African continent; and if he will make a state- national community in advocating for a sustained ment on the matter. [34845/06] and resourced global response to HIV/AIDS, strengthened leadership at all levels and Minister of State at the Department of Foreign improved coordination of resources and planning Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): The most recent infor- for HIV/AIDS prevention and control. mation and statistics on the HIV/AIDS epidemic are contained in the 2006 Report on the Global Questions Nos. 215 and 216 answered with AIDS Epidemic released by the Joint United Question No. 114. Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS). This report noted progress in declining HIV Questions Nos. 217 to 219, inclusive, answered infection rates in a number of countries and with Question No. 89. increasing access to HIV treatment. Adult HIV infection rates have decreased in Arts Funding. certain countries and changes in behaviour to prevent infection have played a key part in these 220. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for declines. For example, in Kenya adult infection Arts, Sport and Tourism his views on the rates have decreased from a peak of 10% in the development of a new west Cork arts centre in late 1990’s to 7% in 2003; in Uganda from over Skibbereen; and if he will sanction the necessary 15% to 7% today and in Zimbabwe from 26% in funding to enable this development to pro- 2002 to 21% in 2004. ceed. [34781/06] Access to HIV treatment has improved mark- edly over the past two years, especially in Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. developing countries. The number of people O’Donoghue): My Department supports capital receiving combination anti-retroviral therapy arts projects through the Arts and Culture Capi- (ART) for HIV/AIDS more than tripled from tal Enhancement Support Scheme or ACCESS 400,000 in 2003 to 1.3 million at the end of 2005. scheme. Under the ACCESS Scheme, a total of The greatest progress has been made in sub- \45.71m was made available in grant aid to 44 Saharan Africa where the number on treatment projects nationwide. reached 800 thousand. In August of this year I announced a new capi- The reality, however, is that the AIDS epi- tal grants scheme, called ACCESS II. The demic continues to outstrip global and national primary focus of the scheme will be the refur- efforts to contain it. The overall number of bishment and enhancement of existing arts and people living with HIV has continued to increase culture facilities. Accordingly 70% of the total in all regions of the world except the Caribbean. moneys available will, if feasible, be allocated for There were an additional five million new infec- this purpose. The remaining 30% of the scheme’s tions in 2005, the majority in women. The number funds will be available for the development of of people living with HIV globally has reached new facilities. My office has already forwarded 761 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 762 information in relation to the new ACCESS II Job creation measures and the provision of scheme to the West Cork Arts Centre. replacement industries are day-to-day oper- Applications will be accepted until November ational matters for the Industrial Development 17th 2006. An independent selection committee agencies. A central goal for the agencies is the will adjudicate on all applications received within achievement of balanced regional development. the time limits set out in the guidelines and The attractiveness of County Limerick lies in its make recommendations. position as a regional gateway, with a critical mass and infrastructure necessary to attract Swimming Pool Projects. mobile investment to the region. The most recent example of the attraction of Limerick as a 221. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Minister location for new business was the decision by for Arts, Sport and Tourism his plans to accept Northern Trust Corporation to create 300 high new applications for grant aid under the local quality jobs in the financial services sector. authority swimming pool programme, in view of Another example is Vistakon, which recently the fact that the closing date for the current announced its intentions to expand its Limerick scheme was 31 July 2000. [34893/06] operations and create some 120 jobs in high-end manufacturing. Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. The Government and the agencies recognise O’Donoghue): My Department is completing an the need to provide high volume employment Expenditure Review of the Local Authority opportunities in County Limerick that provide Swimming Pool Programme at present. The sustainable jobs. I am confident that the State Review is examining, among other things, how Development agencies, in partnership with other the programme has worked to date and what key players, will strengthen their marketing and changes, if any, are required to ensure its effec- promotion efforts in the region and will continue tive and efficient delivery. The Review is cur- to secure additional employment for the area, rently being finalised and I would hope that it will particularly in view of the situation at the com- be published before year end. On completion of panies in question. Fortunately, there is a general this Review, the question of re-opening the Prog- buoyancy in overall employment in Co. Limerick ramme can be considered. If the Programme is as evidenced by the most recent Live Register fig- re-opened, it will be open to all local authorities ures released by the Central Statistics Office. to submit applications under the terms that will These show that for September, 2006, the figure apply. Significant progress continues under the for the County is 7,205 which is down significantly current round of the Local Authority Swimming on the previous month’s figure of 8,253. Pool Programme, where the priority is to support those projects remaining to be completed. Company Lands. 223. Mr. Collins asked the Minister for Job Creation. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the amount 222. Mr. Collins asked the Minister for of undeveloped and unoccupied land and prop- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the position erty owned by a company (details supplied) in regarding the provision of replacement industries County Limerick; and the schedule of locations of these lands and properties. [34684/06] in County Limerick arising from the recent clos- ure of companies (details supplied). [34683/06] Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment (Mr. Martin): Details of the amount of 224. Mr. Grealish asked the Minister for undeveloped and unoccupied land and property Enterprise, Trade and Employment the job owned by the Company in County Limerick are creation measures that have been acted upon in set out in tables below: view of the restructuring at a company (details supplied); the general job creation activity under 1. Vacant Property Space in County Limerick way for the region; and if he will make a state- ment on the matter. [34737/06] Location Vacant (sq ft)

225. Mr. Grealish asked the Minister for Kilfinane 2,445 Enterprise, Trade and Employment the job Newcastle West 20,719 creation measures which have been acted upon in Hospital 2,130 view of job losses at a company (details supplied) National Technological Park (NTP) 129,450 in County Limerick; the general job creation Raheen Ind. Estate 38,431 activity under way for the region; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34738/06] Limerick City 105,346 Limerick City Workspace 23,948

Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Total 322,469 ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions Nos. 222, 224 and 225 together. 763 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 764

[Mr. Martin.] 227. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for 2. Unoccupied Land Banks in County Limerick Enterprise, Trade and Employment the IDA sup- ported companies in County Clare; the number Location Land Bank each employs; the location of these enterprises; (acres) and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34779/06] NTP 225.0 Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions Raheen 1 & 2 149.1 Nos. 226 and 227 together. Towlerton 22.0 IDA Ireland is the agency with statutory Rosbrien 47.7 responsibility for the attraction of foreign direct Annacotty 21.6 investment to Ireland and its regions. The Forfa´s Annual Employment Survey records jobs gained Kilmallock Road 0.9 and lost in companies supported by the Industrial Moyross 11.8 Development Agencies. It is important to Askeaton 229.0 remember that job creation and job losses are Askeaton — EC 4.0 features of economic development in all countries Kilmallock 16.0 as various sectors expand and contract in response to market demand for goods and Dromcollogher 6.7 services, competitive forces, restructuring and Abbeyfeale 6.0 technological change. Six IDA supported com- Shanagolden 5.2 panies have ceased operations in County Clare Patrickswell 4.0 since 2000, involving the loss of 275 jobs. The Doon 2.4 table that follows this response gives a break- down by year and location of these losses. At the Knocklong 1.5 end of 2005 there were 1,024 people employed in Oola 1.5 nine IDA supported companies in County Clare, Kilfinnane 0.7 an increase of 95 persons compared to the end of Hospital 1.0 2004. As employment figures are provided for the Newcastle West 0.5 Forfa´s Survey on a confidential basis, it is not possible to provide data for individual companies. Newcastle West Business Park 20.0 The following table provides summary infor- Total 776.6 mation regarding permanent jobs, job gains and job losses in IDA assisted companies for the years 2000-05 in County Clare:

Questions Nos. 224 and 225 answered with Closures of IDA Assisted Companies Since 2000 in County Clare Question No. 222. Year Company Location Jobs lost Industrial Development. 2005 Microsemi Ennis 24 226. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for 2004 Tool & Mould Ennis 22 Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number 2003 Teleca Ennis 8 of IDA supported enterprises that have ceased 2002 Pacific Scientific Ennis 88 operations in County Clare since 2000; the location of same; the number employed by each 2001 Studio Eyewear Ennis 85 at their date of closure; and if he will make a 2001 Overland Bolling Ennis 48 statement on the matter. [34778/06]

Employment in IDA Ireland Supported Companies in Clare

Year 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005

No. of Companies 13 11 10 9 9 9 Permanent Jobs 1,211 1,090 926 902 929 1,024 Job Gains (New Jobs) 79 46 19 15 49 129 Job Losses −56 −167 −183 −39 −22 −34

Community Enterprise. tion has been drawn to the plans of a society (details supplied) to develop a community 228. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for enterprise centre; if he will approach Enterprise Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his atten- Ireland to increase the grant in aid which they 765 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 766 have already committed to the project; and if he Currently there are over 6,000 people over 55 will make a statement on the matter. [34787/06] years of age on CE. This represents circa 29% of those on CE, a figure which has increased from Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- 25% at year end 2005. Funding for CE in 2006 is ment (Mr. Martin): The allocation of funding based on 22,000 places on CE schemes nationally, under the Community Enterprise Centre scheme a figure which is similar to the 2005 allocation. is a matter for Enterprise Ireland, the agency charged with the administration of the scheme, Departmental Correspondence. and not one in which I am directly involved. 230. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Under the 2006 Community Enterprise Centre Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will scheme, applicants in the BMW region could have the issues raised in correspondence (details apply for funding up to a maximum of 50% of supplied) investigated; and if he will make a state- eligible expenditure, or \400,000, whichever was ment on the matter. [34838/06] the lesser. Applicants located outside the BMW region, as in the case of Southill, could apply for Minister of State at the Department of funding up to a maximum of 50% of eligible Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. expenditure, or \300,000, whichever was the Killeen): I have arranged for the Labour Inspec- lesser. Applicants in Cla´r areas were entitled to torate of the Department of Enterprise, Trade apply for an additional 5% funding. and Employment to investigate the circumstances Southill Development Co-op Society Ltd. \ set out in the correspondence furnished by the applied for 300,000 in funding. This was the Deputy. maximum amount allowable under the scheme The wages and employment conditions of for an applicant in the Mid West Region. Southill workers employed in the sectors to which the cor- was successful in its application and was approved respondence relates are governed and safe- in full by Enterprise Ireland’s Investment Com- guarded by Registered Employment Agreements mittee on 2nd June, 2006. enforced by the Labour Inspectorate. Labour Inspectors are empowered to seek compliance Community Employment Schemes. with payment of the statutory minimum rates of 229. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for pay specified in those Agreements. Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his atten- The enforcement of the provisions of a Regis- tion has been drawn to the fact that there is a tered Employment Agreement may also be restriction imposed by lack of funding on the effected under the Industrial Relations Acts. A number of people aged over 55 that FA´ S can trade union, an association of employers or an employ under the community employment individual employer may complain to the Labour schemes due to lack of funding from his Depart- Court that a particular employer is not complying ment; the amount of money made available to with a Registered Employment Agreement. If, FA´ S in 2006 by his Department to facilitate over after investigating a complaint, the Court is satis- fied that the employer is in breach of a Regis- 55’s employed under the community employment tered Employment Agreement it may by order schemes; his plans to increase the funding; and if direct compliance with the agreement. Failure to he will make a statement on the matter. comply with such an order is an offence punish- [34837/06] able by a fine. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment (Mr. Martin): Community Employment Social Welfare Benefits. (CE) is an active labour market programme 231. Mr. Collins asked the Minister for Social designed to provide eligible long term unem- and Family Affairs if he will introduce a national ployed people and other disadvantaged persons refuse waiver similar to other free schemes which with an opportunity to engage in useful work operate for old age pensioners and other social within their communities on a temporary basis. welfare recipients. [34695/06] CE helps unemployed people to re-enter the open labour market by breaking their experience Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. of unemployment through a return to a work rou- Brennan): The setting of waste management tine and to assist them to enhance/develop both charges and the introduction of waivers in respect their technical and personal skills. of waste charges is, as stated by my colleague the To cater for older workers in particular, in Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local November 2004 I revised the 3 year CE capping Government, a matter for each local authority. to allow those of 55 years of age and over to avail The introduction of a national social welfare of a 6-year period on CE (based on participation scheme to address the issue, for example as part since 3rd April, 2000). This measure was intro- of the household budget scheme, is complex duced in recognition of the fact that older partici- given the wide range of charging regimes and cost pants may find it more difficult to progress into structures that exist in respect of waste manage- the open labour market. ment throughout the State. Charges vary across 767 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 768

[Mr. Brennan.] Recipients and Expenditure on Rent Supplement for Years local authorities and even within local authorities 2003 to 2005 where there is more than one provider. In addition, some local authorities already operate Year No. Recipients Annual Expenditure waiver schemes. Any system put in place to assist \m people who rely on private domestic waste collec- tion would have to be sensitive to the different 2003 59,976 331.47 local arrangements. 2004 57,874 353.76 I am sensitive to the effects of this situation 2005 60,176 368.70 on social welfare recipients and I have asked my Department to urgently explore possible options.

Pension Provisions. Child Supports. 232. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Social 234. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social and and Family Affairs his views on providing an Family Affairs the number of people in County option to the dependent spouses of recipients of Mayo for 2005 and 2006 who have been given an old age pension whereby they could receive supplementary welfare allowance for assistance their own payment independently with their own with the cost of cre`che fees; the cost of same; and book or into their own account, in order that their the amount given to each successful applicant. financial independence would be recognised by [34762/06] his Department. [34759/06] Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. Brennan): The main form of state child-care Brennan): My Department has introduced var- assistance is through the Equal Opportunities ious measures over the years to make payments Support Programme operated by the Department directly to qualified adults. For example, separate of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. This prog- payments are made in case of domestic difficulty ramme is organised on a county basis and is where a spouse might otherwise have no other specifically designed to assist low-income or form of income. otherwise disadvantaged parents moving into the Applicants to State Pension (Transition), work-force or taking up training or employment (formerly known as Retirement Pension) and opportunities. State Pension (Contributory), (formerly known The supplementary welfare allowance scheme as Old Age (Contributory) Pension) may opt to is administered on my behalf by the Community have the qualified adult allowance paid direct to Welfare Division of the Health Service Execu- the spouse. Since these arrangements were tive. Cre`che supplements may be made available implemented in 2002, some 1,400 couples or some by the Executive in specific instances where a 8% of claims have indicated their preference to public health nurse or health service social have the qualified adult allowance paid in this worker recommends that a child in difficult cir- way. cumstances would benefit by attending a com- munity cre`che, or that the parent of a child needs The possibility of paying the qualified adult to avail of counselling services, addiction treat- allowance automatically to the spouse has been ments or similar and that cre`che services are raised with me by various interest groups and I required to facilitate this. In each such instance am examining the possibility of extending the the Executive will take all the relevant circum- present arrangements. stances are taken into account, for example, the person’s ability to pay for or provide the service Social Welfare Benefits. from an alternative source, in determining if a 233. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for Social supplement is warranted. and Family Affairs the number of persons who The number of people in receipt of a cre`che received rent allowance in 2003, 2004 and 2005; supplement in Mayo at the end of 2005 was 10 and the cost to his Department for each respec- and the average weekly payment was \61.29. The tive year. [34760/06] number of people in receipt of a cre`che sup- plement in Mayo at 13 October 2006 is 9 and the Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. average weekly payment is \80.53. Brennan): The supplementary welfare allowance scheme, which includes rent supplement, is Social Welfare Benefits. administered on my behalf by the Community 235. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Social Welfare division of the Health Service Executive. and Family Affairs the population catchment and The number of rent supplement recipients and number served by his Department offices in expenditure for the years 2003, 2004 and 2005 are Dublin 15 for each of the past five years; if statis- shown in the attached tabular statement. tics are available; the staffing levels in the same offices for each of the years since this office 769 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 770 opened; and if he will make a statement on the The person concerned has been asked to con- matter. [34763/06] firm details of her United States Pensions and, when she does so, her entitlement to a fuel allow- 236. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Social ance will be reviewed. and Family Affairs the number of people who are recipients of the social welfare payments in the 240. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Social Dublin 15 area for each of the main categories and Family Affairs the reason his Department for example unemployment assistance, unem- pay a higher rate of child benefit for a third and ployment benefit, one parent family payment, subsequent child than that paid for the first and pension, disability benefit, invalidity and so on for second child in a family; and if he will make a each of the years since the dedicated office in statement on the matter. [34780/06] Dublin 15 was opened; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34764/06] Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. Brennan): Child Benefit is a universal payment 237. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Social which is payable in respect of all children up to and Family Affairs if he will provide comparative the age of 16 years and continues to be paid up statistics between the Blanchardstown Social to the age of 19 in the case of children who are Welfare Office and other social welfare offices still in full-time education and children with dis- across Dublin of the increase in claim numbers abilities. over the past five years for each of the main cat- Government policy over the past number of egories of social welfare payments for example years has been to substantially increase the unemployment assistance, unemployment amount spent on Child Benefit, to the advantage benefit, one parent family payment, pension, dis- of all families. Commitment to this policy is ability benefit, invalidity and so on; and if he will reflected in the significant resources invested in make a statement on the matter. [34765/06] the child benefit scheme since 2001, increasing monthly payments to \150 for each of the first \ 238. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Social two children and 185 for the third and sub- and Family Affairs if his Department has a stan- sequent children. dard set of client services to indicate the amount To ensure that additional resources are tar- of time it takes his Department to process appli- geted at larger families, who are at greater risk of cations for payment for each of the main categor- poverty, a higher rate of child benefit is paid in ies (details supplied); the average period, the respect of the third and subsequent qualified chil- shortest period and the longest period to process dren. In this regard, the Child Benefit Review a claim for payment in each category for Dublin Committee, which was established by the then 15 residents; if he will provide comparative fig- Minister for Social Welfare and which reported ures on waiting times for processing claims across in 1995, considered a number of alternative the Dublin social welfare offices; and if he will arrangements including a single rate of payment make a statement on the matter. [34766/06] for all children, a rate structure differentiated on age grounds, and payment of a higher rate for Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. the first child. The Committee concluded that the Brennan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 235 current differential should be retained. to 238, inclusive, together. It is not possible in the time available to supply Social Welfare Investigations. the information requested. Accordingly I have 241. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Social asked my officials to respond directly to the and Family Affairs further to Parliamentary Deputy within the next two weeks on the matters Question No. 254 of 18 October 2006, the overall raised by her. targets set for claim processing, for each of the payments administered by his Department; the 239. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social and factors included in these targets; and if he will Family Affairs when a person (details supplied) make a statement on the matter. [34890/06] in County Mayo will be approved and awarded the fuel allowance. [34777/06] Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. Brennan): The current claim processing targets Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. for each scheme are set out in the following table. Brennan): To qualify for a payment under the Performance is measured on a monthly basis by national fuel scheme, the total income of a person selecting all of the claims awarded during the over age 80 must not exceed EUR 254.30 per month and calculating the percentage of claims week. The person concerned is receiving United which were awarded within the performance tar- States Social Security Pensions and, according to get for the month. the information in my Department, her income The factors which are taken into account when is above the threshold of EUR 254.30 per week. setting the performance target for a scheme are Accordingly her application for the fuel allow- determined by the processes which must be fol- ance has been disallowed. lowed in arriving at a decision as well as the 771 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 772

[Mr. Brennan.] incapacity for work, establish the customer’s number of claims that the relevant business areas identity or their place of habitual residence and can reasonably be expected to handle. Processes to assess means where appropriate. vary from scheme to scheme and may involve, My Department sets its claim processing tar- among other things, the need to establish the gets with a view to providing an efficient and customer’s social insurance record, verify medical effective level of customer service.

2006 Processing Targets for new claims

Scheme Target(1)

State Pension (Contributory) 55% in 6 weeks State Pension (Transitional) 80% in 5 weeks Widow(er)’s Contributory Pension 80% in 5 weeks State Pension (Non-Contributory) 65% in 8 weeks Widow(er)’s (Non-Contributory) Pension & One Parent Family Payment (Widow) 75% in 8 weeks One-Parent Family — (Unmarried Parent) 55% in 8 weeks One-Parent Family — (Separated Spouse) 65% in 13 weeks One-Parent Family — (Local Office based) 85% in 9 weeks Free Electricity/Gas Allowance 70% in 7 weeks Free Telephone Allowance 70% in 7 weeks Bereavement (Social Welfare Services Office, Sligo) 80% in 3 weeks Bereavement (Social Welfare Services Office, Longford) 80% in 3 weeks Invalidity Pension 70% in 9 weeks Family Income Supplement 70% in 3 weeks Disability Allowance 70% in 9 weeks Carer’s Allowance 70% in 9 weeks Jobseeker’s Benefit 85% in 2 weeks Jobseeker’s Assistance 70% in 2 weeks Illness Benefit 90% in 1 week Occupational Injury Benefit– Interim Illness Benefit 85% in 1 week Maternity Benefit 80% before commencement of benefit Treatment Benefit 90% in 2 weeks Child Benefit 90% in 1 week Note for Information (1)Target time to process new claims from date of receipt to date of award.

matter of urgency, alternative locations to perma- Search and Rescue Service. nently house the Doolin Unit in the locality. 242. Mr. J. Breen asked the Minister for Trans- Public Transport. port further to Parliamentary Question No. 1102 of 27 September 2006, if negotiations have been 243. Mr. J. Breen asked the Minister for Trans- entered into with the landowner of the current port if, in view of the lack of public transport in site with a view to securing an alternative site or if the area he will allow people required to travel negotiations have started with another landowner from Labasheeda and Liscannor, County Clare to with view to securing a permanent site for the neighbouring bigger towns, to collect pension and Doolin Coastguard; and if he will make a state- social welfare allowances, due to the closure of ment on the matter. [34696/06] the post offices in those areas to claim back the cost of taxi fares which they are incurring; and if Minister of State at the Department of Trans- he will make a statement on the matter. port (Mr. Gallagher): I have in reply to the pre- [34767/06] vious question referred to by the Deputy stated that I am conscious of the need for improved Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. accommodation for the Doolin Coastal Unit and Brennan): The administration of support pay- am continuing to act to secure such accom- ments including supports for retired, elderly or modation. I do not wish to elaborate upon the unemployed persons is a matter for my colleague, negotiations taking place at present. Coast Guard the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. There management has been asked to consider, as a are no funds available to my Department for the reimbursement of taxi fares or other costs associ- 773 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 774 ated with the collection of such support Clonsilla-Navan line; and the date these stations payments. will be completed. [34832/06] However, since 2002, my Department has been operating the Rural Transport Initiative under Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The which thirty four community transport groups location of stations on the rail network is a matter ´ around the country are being funded on a pilot for Iarnro´ dEireann. I am advised by the Com- basis to address the transport needs of their rural pany that work is currently under way on a new areas. One of the project groups is operational in station between Castleknock and Ashtown to several parts of County Clare. serve the new Phoenix Park development. The Following a recent public consultation process new station at Docklands is expected to open on the matter, my Department is currently pre- next year. paring proposals for the progressive development The old Navan rail line will be re-opened in of rural public transport from 2007 onwards. This two phases with the first phase running off the is in line with the Government’s commitment to Maynooth line, at Clonsilla, to the M3 inter- mainstream the Rural Transport Initiative post change at Pace, near Dunboyne. I understand ´ 2006. from Iarnro´ dEireann that three new stations are planned on this section — Hansfield, Dunboyne 244. Mr. Aylward asked the Minister for Trans- and Pace. The current position regarding this phase is that detailed design work is under way port further to his press release of 28 September ´ 2006 regarding extra buses and the role for and Iarnro´ dEireann expects to submit a Railway private operations in the bus market, if funding Order application in mid 2007 for statutory for non commercial services is available to both approval to enable the railway upgrade works to public and private bus operators outside of proceed with a view to completion of phase 1 in Dublin; when this funding is expected to be avail- 2009 as provided for in Transport 21. able; and if he will make a statement on the Sceim na mBoithre A´ ise. matter. [34768/06] ´ ´ 246. D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire Gno´ - Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Bus thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta an lı´on iom- E´ ireann currently receives a State subvention for la´n iarratas ar dheontais do bho´ ithre a´ise i nDu´ n non-commercial services outside Dublin. There is na nGall go da´ta agus an lı´on bo´ ithre ar ceadaı´- currently no legislative basis for the subvention odh deontais ina leith go da´ta. [34678/06] of public bus services provided by private bus operators. As indicated in my press release of 28 247. D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire Gno´ - September 2006, new legislation will be brought thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta cad iad na forward to replace the Road Transport Act, 1932 bo´ ithre a´ise i nDu´ n na nGall ar ceadaı´odh deon- with a modern regulatory and licensing regime tais ina leith i mbliana go da´ta agus ce´n tsuim for bus services nationally which will be consist- airgid a ceadaı´odh i ngach ca´s. [34679/06] ent with EU law on public service obligations and State aids. At this juncture it is not possible to say Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht ´ ´ what will be the precise arrangements for market Affairs (Eamon O Cuı´v): To´ gfaigh me´ Ceiste- regulation outside the Greater Dublin Area. anna 246 agus 247 le che´ile. O´ thu´ s 2002 go da´ta, ta´ 600 iarratas faighte ag mo Roinnse faoi Sce´im na mBo´ ithre A´ ise i gCo Railway Stations. Dhu´ n na nGall. Ta´ deontais ceadaithe i leith 237 245. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Trans- acu sin. Ta´ liosta sa ta´bla leis seo de na bo´ ithre i port the new train stations planned on the gCo Dhu´ n na nGall a bhfuil deontais ceadaithe Maynooth commuter line and on the proposed ina leith i mbliana.

TA´ BLA: Bo´ ithre i gCo Dhu´ n na nGall a bhfuil deontais ceadaithe ina leith i 2006

Ainm an Iarrataso´ ra Sonraı´ Deontas

\

Pa´draig Mac Giolla Easbuig, Baile Mhic Pha´idı´n, Cill O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go dtı´ teach an iarrataso´ ra. Chartha 10,080 Brian O´ Seibhlinn, Cill Beag, Cill Chartha. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach Shea´in Uı´ Bhaoill. 11,760 Michea´l Mac Giolla Easbuig, An Rualach, Cill O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go dtı´ teach Alastair Uı´ Riada. Chartha. 17,500 Eithne Nic Pha´idı´n, Caonachan, Cill Chartha. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go dtı´ theach Eithne Nic Pha´idı´n. 12,940 Pa´draig O´ Gallcho´ ir, Droim na Coilleadh, Droim na O´ theach Manu´ s Mac Laifeartaigh go dtı´ teach Ratha, Craoslach. Pa´draig Uı´ Ghallcho´ ir 30,000 775 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 776

[Mr. Sargent.]

Ainm an Iarrataso´ ra Sonraı´ Deontas

\ Sea´nO´ Coillea´n, Duibhlinn Riabhach, Carraig Airt. O´ seanscoil Duibhlinn Riabhlach go teach Seamu´ s Uı´ Coillea´n. 9,075 Sea´nO´ Gallcho´ ir, Doire Chasa´in, Na Du´ naibh. O´ theach E´ amon Uı´ Gallcho´ ir go theach Sea´nUı´ Ghallcho´ ir 8,925 Sea´n Mac Greanacha´in, Gort na Tra´, Ceann Droma, O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go Tobar Davaddo´ g. Fana´id. 6,750 Brian O´ Gallcho´ ir, Doire na nGrial, An Bo´ thar chuig teach an iarrataso´ ra. Dubhchorraigh. 3,570 Ro´ ise Nı´ Fhionntaigh An To´ in Dubh, An Clocha´n. O´ n Br. Contae go teach an iarrataso´ ra. 8,400 Sean Mac Eoin, Mı´n na Sro´ in, Baile na Finne. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. 5,920 Sea´nO´ Briain, Mı´n Charraig, Gort a’Choirce. O´ n bho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. 4,000 Cathal O hEarca´in, Cnoc a’Chaiseal, Gort a’Choirce. O´ Srutha´n go Cnoc a’Chaiseal. 20,000 Eileen Mhic Caislea´in, Cluain Ba´ire, Fa´l Carrach. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. 30,000 Brı´d & Dona´lO´ Gallcho´ ir, La´na an Du´ nMho´ r, Fa´lO´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. Carrach. 15,000 Se´amus O´ Domhnaill, Tobar Caoin, An Clocha´nO´ theach Sea´nO´ Domhnaill go dtı´ an tra´. Liath. 11,147 Eamonn O´ Cuirea´in, Srath na Corcra, Doirı´ Beaga. Br. Ceangail o´Mı´n an Iolair go Seascan Beag. 11,375 Ma´ire Nı´ Fhearraigh, Cois Claidaigh, Bun Beag. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. 14,000 Seosamh O´ Colla, Luinneach Bheag, Doirı´ Beaga. O´ theach Seosamh Uı´ Colla go Pa´irc Khit. 10,400 Brian Mac Pha´idı´n, Carraig Mhic Eachmharcaigh, O´ n bho´ thar chuig dha´ theach. Doirı´ Beaga. 1,950 Po´ l Mac Aodha, Da´l Riada, An Charraig, Doirı´ O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. Beaga. 11,395 Sea´nM.O´ Briain, Mı´n a’Chladaı´,Mı´nLa´rach. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go tithe Uı´ Bhriain. 6,984 Pa´draig Mac Gairbheith, Bun na Leaca, Cnoc Fola, O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar thar theach an iarrataso´ ra. Doirı´ Beaga. 5,200 Ma´ire Nic Pha´idı´n, Cnoc Fola, Bun na Leaca. O´ Shea´nO´ Fearraigh go Damian Mac Pha´idı´n agus Sea´n Mac Pha´idı´n (J). 23,400 Sea´nO´ Fearraigh, Cnoc Fola I´ocht., Bun na Leaca. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go tithe Sea´n agus Pa´draig O´ Fearraigh 10,400 Aodh Mac Eachmharcaigh, Rann na Feirste, O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. Anagaire. 1,544 E´ amon O´ Baoill & Pa´draig Breathnach, 127/128 Loch Bo´ thar chuig tithe E´ amon Uı´ Bhaoill & Pa´draig an Iu´ ir, Anagaire. Breathnach. 2,450 Mairtı´nO´ Gallacho´ ir, 21 An Charraig Fhinn, Ceann O´ theach Bhrı´dUı´ Ghallcho´ ir go teach Mairtı´nUı´ Caslach. Gallcho´ ir. 4,144 Noel O´ Gallacho´ ir, Baile Mhanu´ is, Ceann Caslach. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar chuig teach an iarrataso´ ra. 8,775 Donnchadh Mac Giolla Bhrı´de, Cionn a Leargaı´,Na O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. Du´ naibh. 2,700 Cathal O´ Gallcho´ ir, Mı´n an Iolair, Gaoth Dobhair. O´ n prı´omhbho´ thar go bo´ thar chuig phortaigh Mhı´n an Iolair. 16,250 Ma´irı´n Nic Aoidh, Baile Chonaill, Fa´l Carrach. O´ n bpa´irc peile chuig trı´ theach. 6,985 Meabha Nic Pha´idı´n, Machaire Rabhartaigh, Gort O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go deireadh an bho´ thair. a’Choirce. 13,000 Michea´lO´ Canainn, Leitir, Cill Chartha. O´ n phrı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra. 7,200 Pa´draig O´ Briain, Mı´n a’Chladaı´ O´ n bprı´omhbho´ thar go teach an iarrataso´ ra agus sra´id thart ar an teach. 2,500

AN tIOMLA´ N 365,719

An Teanga Ghaeilge. ghna´thno´ s agus go mbeidh comharthaı´ a gcaitear airgead poiblı´ orthu da´theangach mar ghna´thno´ s 248. D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire Gno´ - faoi mar a tharlaıonn i dtıortha datheangacha thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta cathain ata´ ´ ´ ´ se´ i gceist aige rialacha´in a dhe´anamh faoi alt eile. [34770/06] d’Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la, 2003, lena chinntiu´ go mbeidh foirmeacha da´theangacha ar Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht ´ ´ fa´il don phobal o´ chomhlachtaı´ poiblı´ mar Affairs (Eamon O Cuı´v): Dı´rı´m aird an Teachta 777 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 778 ar an bhfreagra a thug me´ ar Cheist Da´la Uimh. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the schools 266 den 28 Mea´nFo´ mhair 2006. Ta´ dre´acht de that have applied for the provision of flashing or Rialacha´in faoi alt 9(1) leagtha agam faoi bhra´id warning lights to slow down traffic in view of the gach Teach den Oireachtas le deis a thabhairt do fact that most of County Mayo is in a CLA´ R area; Theachtaı´ agus Seanado´ irı´ iad a phle´ agus leasui- and the schools that will be provided with these the a mholadh sula nde´anfaidh me´ iad a shı´niu´ . lights. [34773/06] Ta´ su´ il agam go mbeidh an ple´ sin ann go luath. Nı´ mo´ r dom a chur in iu´ l don Teachta, a´fach, nach dtagann foirmeacha faoi sca´th alt 9(1) den Acht. Is amhlaidh go bhfuil seirbhı´sı´ mar shola´- thar fhoirmeacha ar cheann de na ha´bhair a clu´ d- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): On 1st September last, aı´tear faoi na sce´imeanna teanga a bhı´onn le \ ´ haontu´ le comhlachtaı´ poiblı´ faoi re´ir fhora´lacha I announced 609,000 in CLAR funding for alt 11 den Acht. Flashing Amber Safety Lights for 87 schools in the CLA´ R areas of Co. Mayo. This amount Road Safety. covers allocations made in 2005 and 2006. Please 249. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Com- see the following tables tor details. 779 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 780 7000 \ County Mayo FLASHING AMBER SAFETY LIGHTS AT SCHOOLS 2006 Road No./Name Name of School Roll No. Address of School ED Location 2006 Cost Max LS5752LP1718LS5704LP1717N60 & LP1706 Errew NSLP1702 & LP1605 Crimlin NSLP1809 Lahardaun NSLS5789 Manulla Clogher NS NS Parke NSLP1721LS5155LS5422 Scoil NaomhLP505 Phadraig 18503C St PeterLS5543 15967G and 16911H Paul NS Rathbane NSLP514 Errew, 17678J 17482P Castlebar Rathkell Crimlin, NS Lahardaun,N60 Ross Co Castlebar 14064F Mayo 18562S St Joseph’sLP1316/LS5356 NS Manulla Clogher, Castlebar Ballintubber 18848NLP1317 Mayo Kilawalla, Abbey Co Parke, Mayo Ballavary FacefieldLT53571 Pontoon Shraheen Straide, NS Addergoole FoxfordLP121 St Colman’s Ballyheane 15996N ClogherLP318 Ballyhaunis 15705W Manulla JrLS157 Bofeenaun, 18818E Lahardaun Kilavally Lisiniska NSLS149 Currabaggan Castlehill, Ballyavary NS Ballina 14205ULP105 Leitir, Approx Islandeady, Approx 100m Co 100m each Mayo each Approx side Straide sideLT51604 Garracloon 100m of of NS each school school 12808R side 13773G Ballynagoraher of Claremorris schoolLS144 Cloghans 64610N NS Approx Islandeady 100m eachL5659 side Richmond Shraheen, Approx of NS Claremorris 20142I Foxford 100m school (Cill) each 7,000.00 Approx 7,000.00 side 100m ClaremorrisL5662 of Ardagh each school Addergoole 12206M 7,000.00 Approx NS side 100m of each school 16021U side Crossmolina Approx of Ballyhaunis NS 100m school Glenmore each NS side 7,000.00 of Currabaggan, school Knockmore 06852L Lisiniska, Approx 7,000.00 Foxford, 100m Co each Newtownwhite Mayo 7,000.00 Approx side NS 14400S 100m of each school 7,000.00 Shraheen side Mayo 16170O of Neal school Cloghans, Ballina 7,000.00 Mount Approx Mount Falcon 100m Falcon each Gortjordan Crossmolina side Kilcolman of school Cloghans Ballina 7,000.00 Claremorris 20125I 16562I 7,000.00 14195U 09040K Ballyhaunis 7,000.00 Chapel St Knockanillaun, Approx Crossmolina Approx Ballina 50m Approx Crossmolina 50m each Carrowmore 100m each side each Ballysakeery, side of side Ballina of school of school school Approx 100m Approx each 100m side Approx Mount each of 100m Falcon side school each of side Crossmolina school 14534Q of Sth school Crossmolina Fortland Sth Approx 12350T 100m 7,000.00 7,000.00 each 7,000.00 side of school Gortjordan Ballysakeery Approx 7,000.00 50m each 7,000.00 side 7,000.00 Neal of school Approx Approx 50m Crossmolina 50m each Approx Sth each side 50m side 7,000.00 of each of school side school of school 7,000.00 Approx Approx 50m 50m each each side side of of school Approx school 7,000.00 7,000.00 50m each 7,000.00 side of school Houndswood 7,000.00 7,000.00 7,000.00 Neal Approx 100m each side of school 7,000.00 Approx 100m each side of school 7,000.00 781 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 782 7000 \ 266,000.00 Road No./Name Name of School Roll No. Address of School ED Location 2006 Cost Max L5666L56503L5649L1607L1609R332 Kilroe CloonliffenL1616L1822 RoxboroughR335 Mount PleasantL1401 RoundfortL5427 Cloghans Hill Ballycushin NSTotal 18922W Brackloon NS 17615L 12816Q 13500R Murrisk NS Cloonfillen Fahy NS Kilroe Roxborough Ballyglass Moyna NS 17082W 17922R 18876S Roundfort 04796R Cloghans Hill Ballycushin Brackloon, 16832L Westport Ballinrobe Ballinrobe 13555T Murrisk, Westport Roslee 16618J Shrule Fahey, Newport Knappagh Moyna Hollymount Kilcommon Kilmeena Dalgan Approx 100m each side Approx of 100m school each Croagh side Patrick of school Approx 100m each Approx Approx side Approx 7,000.00 100m 100m Approx Kilmcaclasser of 100m each each 100m school Kilmeena each side side each side of of side 7,000.00 of school school of school school Approx 100m each Approx side 100m of each school side 7,000.00 of school 7,000.00 7,000.00 7,000.00 7,000.00 Approx 100m each side of 7,000.00 school Approx 7,000.00 100m each side of school 7,000.00 7,000.00 783 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 784

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] 7,000 \ County Mayo FLASHING AMBER SAFETY LIGHTS AT SCHOOLS 2005 Road No./ Name Name of School Roll No. Address of School DED Location 2005 Cost Max LT 21073LT 11164LS 5157LP 110LT 11063 KillalaL 1608 KilcumminL 1606 KinardL 5636L Mount 5643 Palmer Killa CorraunL 1602L Lehinch 5630LP Roobeen 503 18175L 16811DLP Burriscarra 512LP Gortskehy 917 Kilcummin 20217N Killala Ballina Co. MayoLP 14865Q Srah 14400S 507LT Killateeun 55481 Kilfian Ballina Castlehill BallinaLP Kinard Loughanamon 913 CrossmolinaR335-344 Loughboy 05120L 19394L LackenL1828-29 Coogue South 05756K Killala HollymountR335-276 Taugheen Knock 18880J Roobeen5893 Clogher, Deel — Claremorris 0 Deel Killala1824 Aghamore Lecanvey — 19972T 0 Hollymount 12626L ApproxL-1201 15073L 100m Louisburgh each N.S side of schoolL-5230 Claremorris Louisburgh Tourmakedy S.S 15539I Burriscarra TourmakedyL-12068 Approx Kileen 100m N.S eachR313 Coonard side 16952V of 7,000.00 school Ballyhaunis Drummin 17301IL-52952 Approx Newbrook 100m Approx 16122D each Aghalasheen 100m Ballyhaunis ApproxL-52958 side each 100m of side 15030Q each school 20037L of Garrymore side Claremorris school of 13797O 7,000.00 Aughleam school Approx 64660F Knock Bangor 100m Erris each side Ballyhaunis of Ballinchalla Louisburgh Ballyhowley school Westport 7,000.00 Portroyal 7,000.00 Approx Barnatra Louisburgh 7,000.00 100m Belderrig each side 19324H of school Approx 100m Belmullet Culnacleha each 7,000.00 side of Approx 17037V school 100m each 18594I side Louisburgh of Bekan school Approx Approx 7,000.00 Taugheen 100m 100m Westport each each side side of 12373I 13684H of school Belmullet school 7,000.00 Approx 100m each Aghamore side 7,000.00 Louisburgh of school Knock Bangor Belmullet Approx South Erris Kilsallagh 100m Louisburgh each side 7,000.00 7,000.00 of 14188A 11582M school 17727T 7,000.00 Approx 100m Ballina Ballina Approx Aillemore each 100m side each of side school 7,000.00 of school Belmullet Approx Approx 100m 100m Approx each each 100m side side each Drummin of of side school school Approx of Belmullet 100m school Approx each 100m side each of side 7,000.00 school of Bangor school 7,000.00 An Geata Mor 7,000.00 7,000.00 Theas 7,000.00 Approx 100m each side 7,000.00 of 7,000.00 school Approx 100m each Approx side 100m of each Approx Muings school side Beldergmore 100m of each Belmullet school side of school 7,000.00 Approx 100m each side of 7,000.00 school 7,000.00 7,000.00 Approx 100m each side of 7,000.00 school Approx 100m Approx each 100m side each of side school of school 7,000.00 7,000.00 7,000.00 785 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 786 7000 \ 343,000.00 Road No./Name Name of School Roll No. Address of School ED Location 2006 Cost Max L-5233L-5247L-5238L-5287L-5255 BinghamstownL-5259 CarrowteigeR314 CorcloughL-1202 DoohoomaL-1202 DrumslideL-5245 GeesalaL-5251 14258SL-5451 Glenamoy 15032U InverR-319 Belmullet PullathomasL-1406 15014S Ballina RossportL-1404 14193Q ShraighR319 Belmullet 17532E Doohooma BullsmouthL-54437 19776TR319 Ballycroy Tonragee 13882L DookinellaL-1406 An 16283E Geesala Currane GeataR319 Mor Thuaidh Glenamoy 12568AL-5441 Dooagh Approx Saula Pullathomas 100m 12569C each Knockadaff side of Pullathomas schoolTOTAL An 13303Q 14866S Rathhill Geata Achill Mor Ballina Sound Thuaidh Valley Approx 16113C Belmullet 100m 7,000.00 Ballycroy Achill each North 14873P side Bunnacurry of school Drumgullagh, Approx Achill 100m each 16295L Achill Rathhill side Barrooskey of school Knocknalower 7,000.00 Approx 18082E Knocknalower 100m Approx each 100m Achill side each of side 14863M school of 16052I school 7,000.00 Achill Achill Muingnabo Approx Achill 16379R 18002D 18754E 100m Glencastle Approx 7,000.00 each 100m side 7,000.00 each of Approx side school 100m Approx of each 100m Achill school side each of side school Ballycroy Achill Achill of school Corraun Slievemore 7,000.00 7,000.00 Approx 7,000.00 100m 7,000.00 each side of Approx Corraun school 100m each side of school Slievemore Approx Achill 100m 7,000.00 each Achill side Approx of 100m school Approx each 7,000.00 100m side Ballycroy each of South side school of school Achill Achill Approx 7,000.00 100m each side Approx of 7,000.00 100m school each 7,000.00 side of Approx school 100m each side of school Approx 100m each Approx side 7,000.00 100m of each school side of 7,000.00 school 7,000.00 Approx Approx 100m 100m each each side side of of school school 7,000.00 7,000.00 7,000.00 7,000.00 787 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 788

(details supplied) in County Mayo; and when this Community Development. passport will issue to the veterinary prac- titioner. [34771/06] 250. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for Com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary grant aiding the development of a community Coughlan): The pet passport to which the Deputy enterprise centre (details supplied) from the Dor- refers was issued by registered post to the veterin- mant Accounts Fund or otherwise; and if he will ary practitioner named on 3rd October 2006. make a statement on the matter. [34785/06] Passports are issued to the veterinary prac- titioner, who then completes the relevant sections Minister of State at the Department of Com- to allow the pet to travel under the EU Pet Pass- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. port system. Ahern): I cannot respond categorically to the Deputy, as my Department has not received an Grant Payments. application for funding from the group in ques- tion. It is possible that the group might qualify 253. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for for funding under the recently advertised flagship Agriculture and Food the reason the single farm projects scheme under Dormant Accounts. I payment has not been made to persons (details should stress that until an application is received supplied) in County Galway; and if she will make and can be assessed, I cannot be certain that the a statement on the matter. [34782/06] group would qualify for funding. They may wish to consult my Departments website — www.po- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary bail.ie — for further information or contact my Coughlan): The persons named have been fully Department’s Dormant Accounts section at 01- paid under the 2005 Single Payment Scheme 6473000. which included an allocation of entitlements from the National Reserve. In order to reflect this allo- National Development Plan. cation the Single Payment Entitlements position required to be updated for the 2006 Scheme year. 251. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- This process is now complete and payment of culture and Food further to Parliamentary Ques- 50% advance of the 2006 Single Payment Scheme tion No. 192 of 17 October 2006, the number of will issue shortly. times all the State agencies met in each year from 2000 to date in 2006 under the umbrella of the 254. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- national development plan; when the next meet- culture and Food if and when a person (details ing of the agency CEO group will take place; the supplied) in County Kildare qualifies for national membership of the group; and if she will make a reserve; and if she will make a statement on the statement on the matter. [34728/06] matter. [34835/06]

Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): In addition to the 20 meetings of the Coughlan): The person named submitted an Food Agency Co-Operation Council which took application for an allocation of entitlements from place between 2000 and 2003, the food develop- the 2005 Single Payment Scheme National ment agencies directly concerned with the food Reserve under Category A. Category A caters for programme components of the National farmers who inherited land or received land free Development Plan 2000-2006 met on 10 occasions of charge or for a nominal sum from a farmer in the period 2001 and 2006. Two meetings took who had retired or died before 16 May, 2005 and place in each of the years 2001, 2002, 2003 and who had leased out his/her holding to a third 2004, while one meeting took place in each of the party during the reference period 2000 to 2002. years 2005 and 2006. The person named was not successful under this The inaugural meeting of the Agency CEO category as the land acquired was not received Group, which subsumes and replaces the Food free of charge or for a nominal sum. Agency Co-operation Council, took place on 18 However as the person named commenced July 2006. The next meeting of the Group will farming after 31 December 2002, he may be in a take place in November 2006. The Group, which position to qualify for the 2006 National Reserve. is chaired at Ministerial level, comprises of the My Department has forwarded a 2006 National Chief Executives/Directors of Teagasc, Bord Bia, Reserve application form to the person named Enterprise Ireland, Bord Iascaigh Mhara, Fa´ilte for his attention. Should the person wish to apply Ireland, FA´ S, the Food Safety Authority of under the 2006 National Reserve he should Ireland, and the Food Safety Promotion Board. return the completed application form to my Department’s offices in Portlaoise at his earliest Passports for Animals. possible convenience. 252. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Agri- School Accommodation. culture and Food the position in relation to an application for an EU pet passport for a person 255. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for 789 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 790

Education and Science her views on providing Special Educational Needs. funding to provide an additional permanent class- 258. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Education room instead of the prefab approved in respect and Science the reason funding has been with- of a gaelscoil (details supplied) in County drawn by her Department that permitted parents Cork. [34680/06] to attend special ABA courses in respect of autism; if the special education section of her Minister for Education and Science (Ms Department will be instructed to again accept Hanafin): The management authority of the applications for such funding or if not the alterna- school referred to by the Deputy submitted an tives her Department has in place to overcome application for an additional mainstream class- the shortfall that the loss of participation on such room and a resource room under Additional courses will mean to parents; and if she will make Classroom Accommodation Scheme 2006. In that a statement on the matter. [34718/06] application, the Board of Management indicated that their preference was for either the relocation ´ of existing prefabricated accommodation or the 259. Mr. O Fearghaı´l asked the Minister for rental of temporary school accommodation. Education and Science if she will address the Accordingly, the school was given approval to issues raised in correspondence of 18 October rent a prefabricated classroom to address their 2006 (details supplied). [34719/06] accommodation needs for 2006/7 school year. 271. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science the reason for the withdrawal Schools Refurbishment. of funding or grant aid, for parents seeking to 256. Mr. Collins asked the Minister for Edu- undertake a ten-day course (details supplied) on cation and Science the position with regard to the the way to work with children diagnosed with refurbishment or reconstruction of a school autistic spectrum disorders in view of the vital (details supplied) in County Limerick. information and training this course provides to [34681/06] parents of such children in assisting with their development; if there are other such courses Minister for Education and Science (Ms made available by her Department for such Hanafin): The School Planning Section of my parents; and if she will make a statement on the Department is in receipt of an application for the matter. [34895/06] Small Schools Scheme 2007 in respect of the school referred to by the Deputy. The application 272. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for Edu- will be assessed by my officials and the list of suc- cation and Science the facilities that have been cessful applicants for the scheme will be pub- made available to the parents of children with lished as soon as possible. The closing date for special educational needs to acquire skills for receipt of applications under this devolved managing their children’s special needs, for scheme is 27 October 2006. improving their developmental progress and for understanding the nature of their children’s spec- 257. Mr. Collins asked the Minister for Edu- ific needs; and if she will make a statement on the cation and Science the position with regard to the matter. [34896/06] refurbishment or reconstruction of a school (details supplied) in County Limerick. Minister for Education and Science (Ms [34682/06] Hanafin): I propose to take Questions Nos. 258, 259, 271 and 272 together. Minister for Education and Science (Ms My Department supports the training and pro- Hanafin): The school referred to by the Deputy fessional development of staff working with chil- is currently at an early stage of architectural plan- dren with special educational needs through the ning. The brief for this project provides for a new Special Education Support Service (SESS) which 6 classroom school plus ancillary accommodation was established in 2003. The service as appro- totalling 1030m2. priate, consolidates co-ordinates, develops and The architectural element of this project will be delivers a range of professional development handled by my Department’s in-house architect, initiatives and support structures for school per- with external professionals making up the sonnel working with students with special edu- remainder of the Design Team. cational needs in a variety of educational settings. A planning and briefing meeting has been Generally this support is provided by direct train- arranged for Wednesday November 8th. Follow- ing input or sanction for school staff to attend ing on from this meeting the Design Team will courses recognised and funded through the SESS. prepare a stage 1/2 submission (Site Suitability & As part of its response to the growing demand Outline Sketch Scheme). from teachers for support and training, the SESS Progression of the project to tender and con- is currently developing teams of trainers to struction will be considered in the context of the deliver training in four specific areas, one of School Building and Modernisation Programme which is Autism. This training will be delivered 2006-2010. locally through the Education Centre network 791 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 792

[Ms Hanafin.] I regret that it is not possible to allow grant aid and/or through whole-staff in-school support. where reckonable income exceeds the prescribed School Authorities will continue to work with limits irrespective of the particular circumstances. parents to ensure a consistent home/school Apart from the funding provided through the approach to the education of children with Student Support Maintenance Grant Schemes, autism. financial assistance is also available from my While funding had been previously been made Department through the Student Assistance available to parents to attend certain courses on Fund which is administered by the National an ad hoc basis, my Department is currently Office for Equity of Access to Third Level Edu- reviewing its position in this regard and a decision cation (National Office). The objective of the in relation to future funding of parental courses Fund, which is ESF-aided, is to assist students in will be considered in the context of this review. a sensitive and compassionate manner who might otherwise, due to their financial circumstances, be unable to continue their third level studies. Higher Education Grants. Further information on this fund is available from 260. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Edu- the relevant third institutions. cation and Science if a higher education grant will The Deputy will appreciate that the terms of be awarded to a person (details supplied) in the schemes are of general application and it is County Louth; and if she will make a statement not open to me to make exceptions in individual on the matter. [34730/06] cases.

Minister for Education and Science (Ms Educational Disadvantage. Hanafin): Under the terms of my Department’s 261. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Education 2006 Third Level Student Maintenance Grant and Science the terms or conditions for schools to Schemes the position is that, generally speaking, be included in the DEIS programme. [34732/06] students who are entering approved courses for the first time are eligible for grants where they Minister for Education and Science (Ms satisfy the prescribed conditions with regard to Hanafin): DEIS (Delivering Equality of Oppor- age, residence, means, nationality and previous tunity in Schools), the action plan for educational academic attainment. A mature student is defined inclusion, provides for a standardised system for for the purposes of the schemes as a candidate identifying levels of disadvantage and a new inte- who is at least 23 years of age on the 1st January grated School Support Programme (SSP). The of the year of entry or re-entry to an approved School Support Programme will bring together, course. and build upon, a number of existing inter- Mature students are categorised as either inde- ventions in schools with a concentrated level of pendent mature students or mature students disadvantage. dependent on parents. An independent mature The process of identifying primary and second- student is defined as meaning a mature student level schools for participation in the new School who was not ordinarily resident at home with Support Programme under DEIS was managed his/her parents from the October preceding their by the Educational Research Centre (ERC) on entry to an approved course. Independent mature behalf of my Department and supported by qual- students are assessed without reference to either ity assurance work co-ordinated through the their parents’ income or address. Department’s regional offices and the When assessing the means of students other Inspectorate. than independent mature students, the means test The ERC’s overall approach was guided by the provision of the scheme specifies that the definition of educational disadvantage in the students’ means and those of their parents or Education Act (1998), section 32(9), as: “the guardians must be below a prescribed limit. This impediments to education arising from social or provision requires that parental income be taken economic disadvantage which prevent students into account irrespective of the individual circum- from deriving appropriate benefit from education stances in any case where the student is not an in schools”. independent mature student. In the primary sector, the identification process It is understood from Co. Louth VEC, the was based on a survey carried out by the ERC in assessing authority in this case, that the candidate May 2005, from which a response rate of more referred to by the Deputy is under 23 and that than 97% was achieved. her parents are separated. The candidate is not The analysis of the survey returns from primary eligible for the maintenance grant as the reckon- schools by the ERC identified the socio-economic able income in this case — i.e. the combined variables that collectively best predict achieve- income from her mother’s employment and her ment, and these variables were then used to iden- tify schools for participation in the School Sup- own Department of Social and Family Affairs port Programme. The variables involved were: payment exceed the prescribed limit for the 2005 tax year as set out in the grant scheme. • unemployment 793 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 794

• local authority accommodation identifying levels of disadvantage and a new inte- grated School Support Programme (SSP). The • lone parenthood lSchool Support Programme will bring together, • Travellers and build upon, a number of existing inter- • large families (5 or more children) ventions in schools with a concentrated level of disadvantage. The process of identifying primary • pupils eligible for free books and second-level schools for participation in the In the case of second-level schools, the Depart- SSP was managed by the Educational Research ment supplied the ERC with centrally-held data Centre (ERC) on behalf of my Department and from the Post-Primary Pupils and State Examin- supported by quality assurance work co- ations Commission databases. Based on an analy- ordinated through the Department’s regional sis of these data, the variables used to determine offices and the Inspectorate. As a result of the eligibility for inclusion in the School Support identification process, 840 schools were invited to Programme were as follows: participate in the SSP. These comprised 640 primary schools (320 urban/town schools and 320 • Medical card data for Junior Certificate rural schools) and 200 second-level schools. candidates (including Junior Certificate A review mechanism was put in place to address School Programme candidates) the concerns of schools that did not qualify for • Junior Certificate retention rates by school inclusion in the School Support Programme but regarded themselves as having a level of disadvan- • Junior Certificate exam results aggregated tage which is of a scale sufficient to warrant their to school level (expressed as an OPS — inclusion in the programme. The review process “Overall Performance Scale” — score). operated under the direction of an independent This was based on each student’s perform- person, charged with ensuring that all relevant ance in the seven subjects in which s/he identification processes and procedures were prop- performed best erly followed in the case of schools applying for a • Leaving Certificate retention rates by review. school. An application for review was received from the school referred to by the Deputy and was As a result of the identification process, 840 thoroughly examined by the Review Group. In schools were invited to participate in the SSP. accordance with the recommendations of the These comprised 640 primary schools (320 Review Group, the school has not been identified urban/town schools and 320 rural schools) and for inclusion in the School Support Programme and 200 second-level schools. Following on a review the Principal was informed by letter on 4th process, an additional 40 schools were included in August, 2006. the SSP. Schools which have not qualified for the new School Support Programme and which are receiv- 262. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Education ing additional resources, both human and financial, and Science the number of schools in County under pre-existing schemes and programmes for Mayo that have been included in the DEIS prog- addressing disadvantage, will retain these supports ramme; the number of those schools located in for 2006/2007. After that, schools will continue to the Westport area; and if she will make a state- get support in line with the level of disadvantage ment on the matter. [34733/06] among their pupils. The DEIS action plan states that, as well as the Minister for Education and Science (Ms provision being made under the new School Sup- Hanafin): 68 primary schools and 8 post-primary port Programme for schools with a concentrated schools in Co. Mayo are included in the new level of disadvantage, financial support will also School Support Programme (SSP) under DEIS. continue to be provided for other primary schools Seven of these primary schools and two post- where the level of disadvantage is more dispersed. primary schools have Westport addresses. Details of the schools are published on my Depart- ment’s website. Disadvantaged Status. 264. Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for Edu- 263. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Education cation and Science the position regarding the case and Science the reason a primary school (details of a school (details supplied) in County Tipperary supplied) in County Mayo has been excluded on behalf of which an application has been made from the DEIS programme in view of the fact for disadvantaged status. [34735/06] that it is located in a most disadvantaged area of the county. [34734/06] Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): DEIS (Delivering Equality of Oppor- Minister for Education and Science (Ms tunity in Schools), the action plan for educational Hanafin): DEIS (Delivering Equality of Oppor- inclusion, provides for a standardised system for tunity in Schools), the action plan for educational identifying levels of disadvantage and a new inte- inclusion, provides for a standardised system for grated School Support Programme (SSP). The 795 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 796

[Ms Hanafin.] SCPA in view of the retirement of the assigned psy- School Support Programme will bring together, and chologist. build upon, a number of existing interventions in schools with a concentrated level of disadvantage. School Staffing. The process of identifying primary and second- level schools for participation in the SSP was man- 266. Mr. J. Breen asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science the number of teachers who are aged by the Educational Research Centre (ERC) ´ on behalf of my Department and supported by Members of Da´il Eireann who have not resigned quality assurance work co-ordinated through the their teaching position and have substitute teachers Department’s regional offices and the Inspectorate. working in those positions; if those substitute In the primary sector, the identification process was teachers are earning pension accreditation; and if based on a survey carried out by the ERC in May she will make a statement on the matter. 2005, from which a response rate of more than 97% [34786/06] was achieved. Minister for Education and Science (Ms As a result of the identification process, 840 Hanafin): There are 19 primary and second level schools were invited to participate in the SSP. school teachers, who are Members of Da´il E´ ireann, These comprised 640 primary schools (320 who have not resigned their teaching position and urban/town schools and 320 rural schools) and 200 for whom replacement teachers are in place. In all second-level schools. The school referred to by the cases the replacement teachers are members of the Deputy was not among those identified for appropriate teachers’ pension scheme and are inclusion in the School Support Programme. accruing pensionable service. Schools which have not qualified for the new School Support Programme and which are receiv- ing additional resources, both human and financial, Pupil-Teacher Ratio. under pre-existing schemes and programmes for 267. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Education addressing disadvantage, will retain these supports and Science if she will provide a breakdown in class for 2006/2007. After that, schools will continue to size figures for primary schools per county, for the get support in line with the level of disadvantage school year beginning September 2006 and the pre- among their pupils. vious five school years; and if she will make a state- The DEIS action plan states that, as well as the ment on the matter. [34877/06] provision being made under the new School Sup- port Programme for schools with a concentrated Minister for Education and Science (Ms level of disadvantage, financial support will also Hanafin): Information in relation to classes is pro- continue to be provided for other primary schools vided in the annual census of primary schools. The where the level of disadvantage is more dispersed. reference date for the provision by schools of this information is the 30th September of the school Psychological Service. year in question and the date for return by the schools is 31 October. Consequently, the details for 265. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Edu- the current school year (2006/2007) are not yet cation and Science when a psychologist will be available. The information for the previous 5 school appointed to a school (details supplied) in County years is provided in the table set out below. Wicklow; and if she will make a statement on the As the Deputy will be aware, major improve- matter. [34736/06] ments have been made in staffing at primary in recent years. There are now 4000 more primary Minister for Education and Science (Ms teachers than there were in 2002. The average class Hanafin): As the Deputy will be aware, all primary size in our primary schools is 24 and there is now and post primary schools have access to psychologi- one teacher for 17 pupils at primary level, including cal assessments either directly through the National resource teachers etc. Children with special needs Educational Psychological Service (NEPS) or and those from disadvantaged areas are getting through the Scheme for Commissioning Psychologi- more support than ever before to help them to cal Assessments (SCPA), full details of which are make the most of their time at school. Indeed, with available on my Department’s website. Schools that the thousands of extra primary teachers hired by do not currently have NEPS psychologists assigned this Government, recent years have seen the largest to them may avail of the SCPA, whereby the school expansion in teacher numbers since the expansion can have an assessment carried out by a member of of free education. Furthermore, the Government is the panel of private psychologists approved by committed to providing even more primary NEPS, and NEPS will pay the psychologist the fees teachers next year to reduce class sizes. for this assessment directly. Details of this process As you know all primary schools are staffed on and the conditions that apply to the scheme are a general rule of at least one classroom teacher available on my Department’s Website. The prior- for every 28 children. Of course, schools with only itisation of urgent cases for assessment is a matter one or two teachers have much lower staffing for the school principal in the first instance. The ratios than that with two teachers for just 12 school referred to by the Deputy may now avail of pupils in some cases and so on — but the general 797 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 798 rule is that there is at least one classroom teacher school post was reduced specifically to help for every 28 children in the school. Next year schools that are seeing large increases in enrol- (2007/2008 school year) this is being reduced to ments each year. Over 280 such posts were sanc- 27 children per classroom teacher. A further tioned in the 2006/07 school year, compared to initiative that has been of direct benefit to 170 in 2005/06. This Government has shown a primary schools has been the change in the clear determination to improve the staffing in our criteria for developing schools. For the current schools and we will continue to prioritise this school year the threshold for getting a developing issue going forward.

Number of Pupils by Class Size Range by County (2005/2006)

0-9 10-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40 & Totals Over

Carlow 8 462 1,353 2,270 1,304 142 5539 Cavan 32 1,282 2,199 2,334 1,552 285 7,684 Clare 150 1,740 3,242 3,504 2,476 640 41 11,793 Cork City 60 2,930 3,324 4,193 2,754 286 13,547 Cork County 192 3,769 8,166 13,401 9,592 1,792 44 36,956 Donegal 154 2,789 4,904 5,914 3,300 185 17,246 Dublin Belgard 3,501 5,796 10,541 6,495 245 26,578 Dublin City 56 8,811 10,000 13,346 8,133 360 40,706 Dublin Fingal 1,251 3,122 10,775 9,021 322 24,491 Du´ n Laoghaire/Rathdown 16 1,413 2,567 6,379 4,989 248 0 15612 Galway City 9 1,094 1,165 2,066 1,366 35 5,735 Galway County 292 3,979 4,987 5,073 2,830 214 40 17,415 Kerry 105 2,252 4,161 4,969 2,898 70 14,455 Kildare 990 3,761 10,437 6,351 531 22,070 Kilkenny 9 1,248 2,126 3,332 2,383 176 9,274 Laois 26 816 1,641 3,169 1,466 72 7,190 Leitrim 32 819 861 953 160 146 2,971 Limerick City 27 1,249 1,491 1,973 1,392 106 6,238 Limerick County 104 1,719 3,371 5,184 2,758 212 13,348 Longford 80 699 997 1,292 471 71 3,610 Louth 1,097 2,967 5,260 3,731 282 13,337 Mayo 228 3,264 3,654 4,204 1,654 186 13,190 Meath 24 1,201 3,586 7,827 5,220 757 18,615 Monaghan 52 926 1,785 2,126 1,139 214 6,242 Offaly 25 1,000 2,413 3,516 1,684 8,638 Roscommon 138 1,622 1,867 1,685 721 148 40 6,221 Sligo 49 1,226 2,133 1,911 975 143 6,437 Tipperary N.R. 21 1,131 2,612 2,515 913 106 41 7,339 Tipperary S.R. 30 1,397 3,273 2,882 1,358 284 9,224 Waterford City 342 1,272 2,668 1,021 72 5,375 Waterford County 9 863 1,723 2,771 1,109 248 6,723 Westmeath 40 1,004 2,416 3,352 2,282 144 9,238 Wexford 27 1,449 3,797 5,922 3,503 497 15,195 Wicklow 25 1,336 3,065 4,621 4,222 465 13,734

Totals 2,020 60,671 105,797 162,365 101,223 9,684 206 441,966

Number of Pupils by Class Size Range by County (2004/2005)

0-9 10-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40 & Totals Over

Carlow 16 474 1,297 2,034 1,491 105 5417 Cavan 61 1,488 1,810 2,625 1,370 35 7389 799 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 800

[Ms Hanafin.]

0-9 10-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40 & Totals Over

Clare 109 2,083 3,326 2,974 2,792 357 11,641 Cork City 32 3,013 3,320 4,129 2,945 214 13,653 Cork County 138 4,267 7,916 13,239 9,041 1,369 41 36,011 Donegal 139 2,962 4,649 5,572 3,625 179 17,126 Dublin Belgard 9 3,672 5,478 9,705 6,951 393 26,208 Dublin City 130 8,667 9,801 13,295 8,010 570 41 40,514 Dublin Fingal 995 3,493 10,142 8,409 212 23,251 Du´ n Laoghaire/Rathdown 1,473 2,358 6,378 5,130 274 15,613 Galway City 26 1,089 1,283 1,868 1,217 140 5,623 Galway County 266 4,346 4,433 5,176 2501 362 17084 Kerry 87 2,113 3,918 5,258 2,779 185 14,340 Kildare 9 811 3,862 9,378 6,560 670 21,290 Kilkenny 8 1,072 2,728 2,665 2,290 430 9,193 Laois 7 1,050 1,756 2,801 1,181 142 6,937 Leitrim 38 680 958 950 285 71 2,982 Limerick City 40 1,433 1,248 2,205 1,278 35 6,239 Limerick County 77 1,898 3,657 4,416 2,949 249 13,246 Longford 121 632 824 1,432 500 35 3,544 Louth 9 1,306 2,938 4,568 3,398 356 12,575 Mayo 297 3,162 4,022 4,111 1,528 106 13,226 Meath 16 1,171 3,692 7,194 5,118 461 40 17,692 Monaghan 15 1,031 1,850 1,980 1,076 213 6165 Offaly 34 990 2,202 3,684 1,300 180 8390 Roscommon 168 1,533 1,800 1,753 773 36 6,063 Sligo 86 1,401 1,863 1,654 1,373 6377 Tipperary N.R. 30 1,422 2,259 2,375 936 105 7,127 Tipperary S.R. 46 1,428 2,887 3,231 1,452 217 9,261 Waterford City 645 1,287 2,144 1,092 5,168 Waterford County 997 1,850 2,229 1,190 284 6,550 Westmeath 46 1,091 2,404 3,522 1,827 144 9,034 Wexford 18 1,451 3,876 5,812 3,389 285 40 14,871 Wicklow 17 1,628 3,055 4,951 3,547 322 13520

Total 2,095 63,474 104,100 155,450 99,303 8,736 162 433,320

Number of Pupils by Class Size Range by County (2003/2004)

0-9 10-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40 & Totals Over

Carlow 25 631 1,363 2,201 970 105 5,295 Cavan 35 1,389 2,170 2,501 1,043 35 7173 Clare 137 2,240 2,502 3,498 2,426 644 11447 Cork City 40 3,187 3,552 3,789 2,868 392 13828 Cork County 148 4,000 8,666 13,608 8,063 1,004 40 35,529 Donegal 178 2,954 4,704 5,433 3,546 145 16,960 Dublin Belgard 9 3,196 6,078 9,000 7,118 462 46 25,909 Dublin City 136 8,642 10,227 13,201 8,261 571 41,038 Dublin Fingal 9 992 3,591 9,847 7,877 425 22,741 Du´ n Laoghaire/Rathdown 1,374 2,837 6,167 5,311 140 0 15829 Galway City 42 1,060 1,179 2,004 1,211 70 5,566 Galway County 259 4,100 4,628 4,460 3,038 470 16,955 Kerry 52 2,305 3,821 5,242 2,609 180 14,209 Kildare 9 895 3,396 8,727 7,037 707 20,771 Kilkenny 8 1,158 2,473 3,079 2,131 284 9133 Laois 36 920 1,529 2,799 1,368 182 6834 801 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 802

0-9 10-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40 & Totals Over

Leitrim 53 616 855 870 543 36 2973 Limerick City 27 1,275 1,227 2,606 1,235 71 6441 Limerick County 105 2,094 3,525 4,353 2,717 397 13,191 Longford 99 740 1,028 1,241 376 3,484 Louth 1 1,616 2,589 4,438 3,221 425 12290 Mayo 224 3,950 3,765 3,661 1,365 251 13,216 Meath 38 1,664 3,243 6,310 5,291 424 44 17,014 Monaghan 48 1,000 1,731 2,199 994 220 6,192 Offaly 19 1,218 2,259 3,566 1,051 105 8,218 Roscommon 166 1,635 1,931 1,510 758 35 6,035 Sligo 87 1,208 1,983 2,076 1,102 6,456 Tipperary N.R. 22 1,261 2,418 2,434 754 144 7033 Tipperary S.R. 33 1,663 2,532 3,683 1,287 35 9,233 Waterford City 548 1,640 1,797 1,156 70 5,211 Waterford County 17 1,038 1,679 2,239 1,276 176 6,425 Westmeath 55 1,102 2,249 3,568 1,844 105 8,923 Wexford 1,394 3,775 5,997 3,050 464 42 14,722 Wicklow 37 1,216 3,124 5,306 3,328 426 13,437

Totals 2,154 64,281 104,269 153,410 96,225 9,200 172 429,711

Number of Pupils by Class Size Range by County (2002/2003)

0-9 10-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40 & Totals Over

Carlow 541 1,456 2,051 1,199 71 5,318 Cavan 14 1,326 2,021 2,361 1,230 176 7,128 Clare 100 2,154 3,063 3,003 2,374 640 42 11,376 Cork City 26 2,776 3,518 3,973 3,448 423 14,164 Cork County 206 4,654 8,200 12,503 8,132 1,366 44 35,105 Donegal 172 3,226 4,599 5,202 3,386 245 16,830 Dublin Belgard 8 3,518 5,234 8,882 7,706 429 40 25,817 Dublin City 48 8,785 10,987 12,130 8,824 533 41,307 Dublin Fingal 7 1,235 3,471 9,007 7,467 892 82 22,161 Du´ n Laoghaire/Rathdown 26 1,418 2,698 5,646 5,759 492 0 16,039 Galway City 9 911 1,140 1,775 1,436 391 5,662 Galway County 206 3,879 4,610 5,322 2,599 252 16,868 Kerry 73 2,351 3,425 5,422 2,608 290 14,169 Kildare 9 669 3,036 8,778 6,917 854 20,263 Kilkenny 9 1,134 2,554 2,901 2,246 212 83 9,139 Laois 18 920 1,669 2,545 1,312 179 6,643 Leitrim 29 708 822 968 345 37 2,909 Limerick City 8 1,378 1,530 2,250 1,270 35 6,471 Limerick County 106 1,845 3,411 4,668 2,792 396 13,218 Longford 132 819 840 1,084 567 3442 Louth 7 1,291 2,592 4,459 3,536 251 12,136 Mayo 158 3,563 4,030 3,922 1,748 107 13,528 Meath 16 1,048 3,283 6,661 4,426 877 83 16,394 Monaghan 49 1,054 1,728 2,020 1,292 38 40 6,221 Offaly 20 1,369 2,237 3,097 1,284 149 41 8,197 Roscommon 149 1,773 1,838 1,430 659 74 5,923 Sligo 68 1,033 1,912 2,344 935 181 6,473 Tipperary N.R. 27 1,319 2,221 2,480 788 178 7,013 Tipperary S.R. 33 1,601 2,390 3,641 1,449 146 9,260 Waterford City 9 521 1,293 2,076 1,160 178 5,237 Waterford County 876 1,834 2,287 1,246 142 6,385 803 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 804

[Ms Hanafin.] 0-9 10-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40 & Totals Over

Westmeath 31 1,190 2,281 3,234 1,999 8,735 Wexford 10 1,265 3,994 5,950 2,815 397 14,431 Wicklow 30 1,438 2,883 4,820 3,728 389 13,288

Totals 1,813 63,588 102,800 148,892 98,682 11,020 455 427,250

Number of Pupils by Class Size Range by County (2001/2002)

0-9 10-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40 & Totals Over

Carlow 16 528 1,289 1,970 1,309 144 5,256 Cavan 21 1,210 2,212 2,365 1,070 70 6,948 Clare 116 2,073 2,784 3,030 2,646 607 11,256 Cork City 17 2,270 3,653 4,000 3,725 815 14,480 Cork County 228 4,414 7,959 12,105 8,224 1,690 122 34,742 Donegal 120 2,908 4,621 5,201 3,518 461 16,829 Dublin Belgard 14 3,604 4,948 8,576 8,187 461 25,790 Dublin City 128 8,182 10,973 12,384 9,262 678 47 41,654 Dublin Fingal 1,277 3,273 8,474 7,596 1,143 40 21,803 Du´ n Laoghaire/Rathdown 8 1,441 2,359 5,284 6,372 635 44 16,143 Galway City 4 756 1,153 2,262 1,289 177 5641 Galway County 269 3,696 4,640 5,223 2,637 250 41 16,756 Kerry 79 2,105 3,920 4,672 2,807 361 80 14,024 Kildare 9 900 2,678 7,831 7,299 928 41 19,686 Kilkenny 921 2,292 3,668 2,145 145 9,171 Laois 24 842 1,942 2,114 1,402 246 6,570 Leitrim 44 730 738 985 311 72 2,880 Limerick City 27 1,173 1,438 2,141 1,700 35 6,514 Limerick County 91 2,059 3,016 4,506 3,143 288 85 13,188 Longford 75 737 732 1,293 590 35 3,462 Louth 7 1,418 2,189 4,407 3,377 462 11,860 Mayo 165 3,500 3,833 4,242 1,695 109 13,544 Meath 17 1,011 3,260 6,633 4,058 682 40 15,701 Monaghan 61 968 1,965 2,170 878 216 6,258 Offaly 12 1,183 2,248 3,328 1,169 108 8,048 Roscommon 165 1,548 1,994 1,408 821 71 6,007 Sligo 84 1,271 1,921 2,035 939 177 6,427 Tipperary N.R. 55 1,456 1,874 2,368 923 179 6,855 Tipperary S.R. 30 1,562 2,754 3,075 1,675 141 9,237 Waterford City 414 1,357 1,962 1,300 177 5,210 Waterford County 7 927 1,680 2,543 1,133 71 6,361 Westmeath 37 999 2,153 3,647 1,614 246 8,696 Wexford 13 1,282 3,621 5,330 3,413 426 14085 Wicklow 24 1,219 2,768 5,043 3,704 608 13366

Totals 1,967 60,584 100237 146275 101931 12914 540 424448

operate an age restrictive policy at present; and if School Enrolments. she will make a statement on the matter. 268. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Edu- [34878/06] cation and Science the average age at which infants enter primary school for the first time in each Minister for Education and Science (Ms county; the number of schools per county which Hanafin): The table set out below gives a detailed 805 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 806 breakdown on a county by county basis of the aver- County Age Total age age at which infants entered primary school for Pupils the first time in the 2005/2006 school year. The compulsory school starting age in a National 71 School is 6 years of age and Rule 64 (1) of the Rules Cavan 4 399 for National Schools provides that a child must be 5 562 at least 4 years of age before she/he may be 616 enrolled in a National School. Children of compul- sory school-going age must have a place in a 72 National School and overall there are more than Clare 4 628 enough places available. 5 876 Enrolment in individual schools is the responsi- 625 bility of the managerial authority of those schools and my Department does not seek to intervene in Cork City 4 749 decisions made by schools in such matters. Neither 5 936 does my Department require individual schools to 617 provide details of enrolment criterion and therefore it does not hold details of the number of schools Cork County 4 1544 which operate age restrictive enrolment policies. 5 3,239 My Department’s main responsibility is to ensure 689 that schools in an area can, between them, cater for 71 all pupils seeking places. This may result, however, in some pupils not obtaining a place in the school Donegal 4 964 of their first choice. 5 1171 It is the responsibility of the managerial auth- 622 orities of schools that are not in a position to admit 71 all pupils seeking entry to implement an enrolment policy in accordance with the Education Act. In this Dublin Belgard 4 1,890 regard a board of management may find it neces- 5 1710 sary to restrict enrolment to children from a part- 629 icular area or a particular age group or, occasion- 72 ally, on the basis of some other criterion. In formulating an admissions policy a school must, Dublin City 4 2,819 however, ensure it is lawful. In particular, it must 5 2,398 act in accordance with section 7 of the Equal Status 660 Act 2000 which, subject to very limited exceptions, 71 prohibits schools from discriminating against people in relation to a number of matters including the Dublin Fingal 4 1,691 admission or the terms or conditions of admission 5 1,887 of a person as a student to the school. 641 Where a board of management refuses to enrol 72 a student in a school the parent of the student, fol- lowing the conclusion of any appeal procedures at Du´ n Laoghaire/Rathdown 4 931 school level, has a statutory entitlement under 5 1,033 section 29 of the Education Act to appeal that 616 decision to the Secretary General of the Depart- ment of Education and Science. A committee is Galway City 4 394 established to hear the appeal with hearings con- 5 406 ducted with a minimum of formality. In most cases 611 appeals must be dealt with in 30 days. Where Galway County 4 866 appropriate, the Secretary General may give what- ever directions to the board of management that 5 1,400 are considered necessary to remedy the matter 626 complained of. 72 Kerry 4 665 Ages of Junior Infants Pupils by County 2005/2006 5 1,091 County Age Total 631 Pupils 71

Carlow 4 250 Kildare 4 1193 5 490 5 1,929 624 636 807 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 808

[Ms Hanafin.] County Age Total County Age Total Pupils Pupils Tipperary N.R. 4 371 71 5 623 Kilkenny 4 546 616 5 652 Tipperary S.R. 4 497 613 5 614 71 611 Laois 4 345 Waterford City 4 473 5 570 5 291 655 65 72 71 Leitrim 4 161 Waterford County 4 415 5 164 5 420 64 67 Limerick City 4 488 Westmeath 4 438 5 347 5 711 68 635 Limerick County 4 675 71 5 992 Wexford 4 663 618 5 1195 72 637 81 71 Longford 4 200 Wicklow 4 791 5 270 5 1049 63 612 Louth 4 1027 71 5 851 619 71269. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science when representatives of a Mayo 4 583 group (details supplied) who met with her 5 1035 Department officials on 16 March 2006, can 623expect to receive responses to the issues raised 71during the meeting; and if she will make a state- ment on the matter. [34879/06] Meath 4 1022 5 1539 Minister for Education and Science (Ms 623Hanafin): For the 2006-2007 school year, the 71Department gave its approval for the enrolment of certain pupils in the school in question, who in Monaghan 4 448 good faith, had enrolled in that school for that 5 340 year. This was notified to the Group to which the 67Deputy refers. The views of the group referred to are being Offaly 4 500 considered in the context of the public consul- 5 603 tation process in relation to the new second level 611school for Gorey. 73 Special Educational Needs. Roscommon 4 369 5 443 270. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for Education and Science if she will fund and sup- 613 port the NIID course in Trinity College for adults Sligo 4 429 with a disability. [34880/06] 5 417 Minister for Education and Science (Ms 613 Hanafin): I understand that a submission has 809 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 810 been prepared by Trinity College for a course Environment, Heritage and Local Government if leading to a certificate in Contemporary Living it is intended to enact sections 55 to 62 of the and has been forwarded to the Higher Education Local Government Act 2001 before 1 December Authority which is the funding authority for uni- 2006; and if he will make a statement on the versities. matter. [34689/06] My Department is awaiting the results of the HEA’s consideration of the submission. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): I refer to the Questions Nos. 271 and 272 answered with reply to Question No. 674 of 21 February 2006. Question No. 258. The issue remains under consideration.

Water and Sewerage Schemes. Grant Payments. 273. Mr. Collins asked the Minister for the 276. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Environment, Heritage and Local Government the reason for the delay in the provision of the the position regarding a development (details proposed sewage scheme in Athea, County supplied) in County Cork; and if he will clarify Limerick. [34687/06] the reason for the delay in progressing this development. [34691/06] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): The Athea Minister of State at the Department of the Sewerage Scheme, which is being advanced as Environment, Heritage and Local Government part of a grouped project that also involves (Mr. N. Ahern): Certain clarifications regarding Askeaton, Foynes, Glin and Shanagolden, is the application for funding under the Capital included in my Department’s Water Services Assistance Scheme in respect of this project were Investment Programme 2005-2007 as a scheme to sought from Cork County Council who are commence construction in 2007. responsible for administering the scheme in their My Department is awaiting submission of area. Following technical examination of a Limerick County Council’s Preliminary Reports revised design received from the Council my for the project. Department approved a grant for this project on 23 June 2006. 274. Mr. Collins asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Cu´ rsaı´ Pleana´la. the reason for the delay in the provision of all sewerage schemes in County Limerick. 277. D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire [34688/06] Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais A´ itiu´ il i bhfianaise chinneadh an Bhoird Pleana´la maidir Minister for the Environment, Heritage and le caomhnu´ na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht, an bhfuil Local Government (Mr. Roche): Details of the se´ i gceist aige rialacha´in a dhe´anamh faoi alt 33 major sewerage schemes in County Limerick that den Acht Pleana´la 2000 lena gceanglo´ far ar lucht have been approved for funding by my Depart- forbartha an fa´isne´is chuı´ a shola´thar le go ment, together with scheduled commencement n-ullmho´ faı´ ra´iteas tionchar teanga neamhsplea´ch dates, are set out in the Water Services Invest- maidir le gach forbairt mholta i limiste´ir Ghael- ment Programme 2005-2007 which is available in tachta. [34769/06] the Oireachtas Library. Information on smaller schemes, for which full responsibility has been Minister for the Environment, Heritage and devolved to Limerick County Council, may be Local Government (Mr. Roche): Dhı´reoinn aird obtained from the Council. ar an bhfreagra a thug me´ ar Cheist Uimhir 1558 Local authorities are the procurement bodies ar an 27 Mea´nFo´ mhair 2006. for individual schemes included in the Prog- ramme and are responsible for producing neces- Social and Affordable Housing. sary Design Briefs, Contract Documents etc and for advancing each of their schemes to com- 278. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for the pletion. Insofar as particular stages of schemes Environment, Heritage and Local Government need approval by my Department, I have intro- the number of housing units here; the number of duced more streamlined approval procedures in these which are affordable housing units; and the order to reduce administration and accelerate number which are social housing units. progress. For example, I have reduced from four [34788/06] to two the number of stage approvals local auth- orities need to obtain from my Department for Minister of State at the Department of the schemes costing less than \5m. I continue to keep Environment, Heritage and Local Government the approval procedures under review. (Mr. N. Ahern): There were 1.7 million housing units in 2005, of which approximately 134,000 were houses let by local authority or Voluntary or Legislative Programme. Co-operative sector. It is not possible to provide 275. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for the a breakdown of the number of units which are 811 Questions— 25 October 2006. Written Answers 812

[Mr. N. Ahern.] if he will make a statement on the matter. affordable housing units as beneficiaries under [34882/06] the various affordable housing schemes may have Minister of State at the Department of the moved from these houses to new private housing. Environment, Heritage and Local Government However since 1991, some 25,395 households (Mr. N. Ahern): The most recent assessment of have benefited under these schemes. Data on the need for social housing, undertaken by local auth- number of housing units provided under the var- orities in March 2005, indicated that there were ious affordable housing schemes each year are 43,684 households on local authority waiting lists available in the Housing Statistics Bulletins which compared with 48,413 in March 2002. More are available in the Oireachtas Library and on the detailed results, including a breakdown of this fig- Department’s website at www.environ.ie. ure by local authority, are available in my Department’s Annual Housing Statistics Bulletin 279. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for the for 2005, which is available on my Department’s Environment, Heritage and Local Government website — www.environ.ie. when the legislative process will be completed Data in relation to the length of time applicants which will allow tenants of local authority flats spend on local authority waiting lists is also avail- able. However, this data is grouped into time clas- to purchase their flats under the tenant purchase sifications and therefore it is not possible to calcu- scheme; and if he will make a statement on the late a national average waiting time nor to matter. [34881/06] identify which local authority has the longest waiting time. National data available on the dur- Minister of State at the Department of the ation that applicants spend on waiting lists is as Environment, Heritage and Local Government follows: (Mr. N. Ahern): My Department is currently pre- paring proposals for the legislation required to Length of Time 2005 % of need give effect to the commitment in the Housing Policy Framework: Building Sustainable Com- Less than 1 year 17,664 40 munities to introduce a new tenant purchase Between 1 & 2 8,872 20 scheme that will allow for the sale of local auth- years ority apartments to tenants under certain con- Between 2 & 3 6,733 15 ditions. We are working to progress this draft years legislation as quickly soon as possible. Between 3 & 4 3,725 9 years Local Authority Housing. More than 4 6,690 15 years 280. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if Total 43,684 100 he will provide a breakdown by local authority of the number of applicants on local authority hous- More detailed data, including a breakdown by ing lists; the national average waiting time; the housing authority of waiting list times, is also local authority with the longest waiting time; and available in the 2005 Statistics Bulletin.