Vol. 626 Wednesday, No. 2 25 October 2006 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 25 October 2006. Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 497 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 508 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 524 Order of Business ……………………………… 525 Statement of Estimates for Houses of the Oireachtas Commission: Motion ………… 530 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Report Stage (resumed) …………… 530 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Foreign Affairs Priority Questions …………………………… 548 Other Questions …………………………… 565 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 571 Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Report Stage (resumed) …………… 571 Private Members’ Business Health Services: Motion (resumed) ……………………… 620 Message from Select Committee ………………………… 656 Adjournment Debate Asylum Support Services …………………………… 657 Sugar Beet Industry …………………………… 660 Motor Taxation ……………………………… 665 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 669 497 498 DA´ IL E´ IREANN report’s finding that, from the start, the project governance has not been strong. Since the pause, ———— which was last October, “overall project govern- ance appears to have gone”. It has gone like the De´ Ce´adaoin, 25 Deireadh Fo´mhair 2006. money and nobody is in charge. Nobody is Wednesday, 25 October 2006. responsible for the disappearance of \21 million down this black hole. Is this the financial engin- ———— eering of which the Minister for Finance spoke? Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has 10.30 a.m. concluded. ———— Mr. Kenny: The final conclusion of this consult- ants’ report is that PPARS might become a Paidir. “never ending project”. A year ago, the Prayer. Taoiseach told us that he would stop the waste, stop the rot and see that the people’s money was ———— saved. What does he propose to do about it now in light of the Astron Consulting report? Leaders’ Questions. Mr. Kenny: All over the country people are out The Taoiseach: We are spending almost \13 fundraising for vital life-saving equipment. They billion on the health service, a major proportion are running marathons, holding coffee mornings of which is going into new developments every and doing trick-or-treat campaigns. It is only a year. short time since John Aldridge took up what he called singing to raise money for a CAT scanner Mr. McCormack: Administration. in Temple Street children’s hospital. The purpose of his efforts was to provide a piece of equipment The Taoiseach: Large amounts of that expendi- that would prevent children with serious head ture are going into projects to improve the quality injuries from having to be moved to Beaumont of service for the public at every level. That is not or the Mater. People do such things because the to take away from the efforts of those engaged Government is not providing money for the in charitable fundraising acts, which have always required priorities, so where is the \13 billion happened in this country. expenditure on health going? The PPARS system has been implemented in It is just over a year since I exposed to the six Health Service Executive areas so I am sur- House the financial disaster known as the PPARS prised that Deputy Kenny is asking us to stop it. \ project. I remind the Taoiseach that 144 million To unravel it in those areas would waste money of people’s hard-earned money went down the that is effectively working. It is supporting the tubes in a system that underpays and misspends. human resource records for 70,000 staff on the It does everything except what it is supposed to payroll and a large amount of other projects in do. In response to that matter, the Taoiseach said those Health Service Executive areas. As I said he would freeze the project, stop the rot and halt last year, the further roll-out of the scheme, other the waste. Neither the Taoiseach nor his Govern- than in the six areas where it is working, is on ment did that, however. The Da´il was misled hold. It currently remains on hold and no further about that matter because he did not stop the work has taken place in those areas. The review project, nor did he stop the waste. carried out by the HSE since October 2005 con- I have a copy of the Astron Consulting report, cluded, first, that no long-term strategy should be which was published in September this year. The adopted until the use of the system in existing report, which is a fundamental review of the PPARS project review, is worth reading. It does sites is maximised and fully operational. That is not need any sexing up because its findings are what they are concentrating on. Second, the so stark. The report’s conclusions are that the review concluded that the requirements of the PPARS project was “badly conceived” and “po- new unified HSE structure should be clarified orly implemented”. It also states that “the system and that the PPARS project’s capacity to fulfil is not stable yet” and “reflects the old (health these requirements should be verified. board) structure”. In addition, it states that “the Deputy Kenny will recall that the HSE did not ongoing costs are very high”. This year, the exist when the PPARS project began. When the Government spent over \21 million—— HSE started, therefore, one had to take account of the new structure, which is only in its second An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has year. That work will take place over the next concluded. eight to nine months, led by the HSE’s national director of services. That person is responsible for Mr. Kenny: ——and it is proposed to do the co-ordinating the activity and is implementing same again next year. An even bigger shock is the the project. 499 Leaders’ 25 October 2006. Questions 500 [The Taoiseach.] charge and money is disappearing down the tube. Sanction is pending for a capital cost of \2.844 Will the Taoiseach tell the Da´il today what he million sought by the HSE for this year. No sanc- proposes to do about this? Who is in charge of tion has yet been agreed by the Department so no this project? The Astron report states that there allocation has been sanctioned this year. Deputy is no governance and nobody is in charge or Kenny mentioned a figure of \21 million but the responsible. Where is the Minister for Health and overall cost estimate for the project in 2006 is Children or the HSE while this Government is \4.31 million, which is a recurring cost for the continuing to wilfully squander the people’s system as it is operating, including software, taxes? What does the Taoiseach propose to do? system-hosting and payroll support. There is a fig- ure of \15.18 million for HSE staff and technical The Taoiseach: I have already stated who is in consultancy staff. These costs will continue to charge of the programme, namely the national reduce as the system beds in. Unfortunately, we director of shared services. Deputy Kenny can have not found a way of bringing in a new system quote from the report but I will give a more that does not involve staff, and they must be paid. balanced interpretation. The Astron report states \ There is also a once-off cost of 1.55 million for that PPARS is working quite well in some areas hardware and consultancy. but that overall disappointment exists at what is Like all large organisations, the HSE requires being delivered. That is what I said one year ago. comprehensive human resource support and pay- It confirms that any further roll-out decision is on roll systems. Like other sectors, the HSE could hold and recommends that it should be based on not cover the entire country without using mod- the new HSE structure, which is now 20 months ern technological systems. There have been diffi- old. We all agree with that. culties with the PPARS system, as there have The report goes on to state that this would been with IT systems all over the world. have to be with the support and participation of However, it is unreasonable for Deputy Kenny to senior management, which is obvious, and that ask the HSE not to continue to bed down the complexity surrounding staff terms and con- new system. ditions would have to be removed. We all know that the old health board system had a variety of Mr. Kenny: That is the usual answer given by health boards around the country in which people the Taoiseach on these matters. I am not sure worked under differing terms, conditions, con- whether the Taoiseach has been briefed on the tracts and work practices. That was the reason four additional factors set out in the report, namely that there was no clear demand from we decided, in 2001, to introduce a unified health management for the system and that manage- system, the Health Service Executive, which has ment support was weak and has become weaker come into effect and is working successfully — since the pause; substantial variations existed in although in a difficult position — towards imple- pay and conditions, organisational structures, cul- menting a policy on the more than 100,000 health tures and processes among agencies, the extent of service staff who are working hard throughout which was not known before the commencement the country. The report states that it is difficult to of the project; there was an inability to defini- identify realised cost savings in sites where the tively freeze the business blueprints or require- system has been implemented but that project ments at any particular point in time; and there staff levels were reduced from approximately 500 was a failure to comprehensively follow through to 254 by May, and it gives the cost of the project.