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House of Lords Official Report Vol. 756 Thursday No. 53 6 November 2014 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Introductions: Baroness Brady and Lord Callanan .....................................................1729 Questions National Minimum Wage ...........................................................................................1729 Berlin Wall...................................................................................................................1731 Unmanned Aerial Vehicles..........................................................................................1734 European Union: Reform ...........................................................................................1736 Business of the House Timing of Debates.......................................................................................................1739 Women: Homelessness, Domestic Violence and Social Exclusion Motion to Take Note ..................................................................................................1739 Ebola Question for Short Debate ..........................................................................................1785 Low-income and Vulnerable Consumers Motion to Take Note ..................................................................................................1799 EU: Counting the Cost of Food Waste (EUC Report) Question for Short Debate ..........................................................................................1827 Grand Committee Deregulation Bill Committee (5th Day)............................................................................................GC 747 Written Statements ....................................................................................................WS 151 Written Answers .........................................................................................................WA 257 £4·00 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201415/ldhansrd/index/141106.html PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords £4 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords £600 LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £60 (£100 for a two-volume edition). Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage. The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative Con Ind Conservative Independent DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Lab Labour Lab Ind Labour Independent LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2014, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1729 Introduction: Baroness Brady[6 NOVEMBER 2014] National Minimum Wage 1730 Lord Newby: My Lords, the Government support House of Lords the living wage and encourage all employers who are able to do so to pay it. Her Majesty’s Treasury’s pay Thursday, 6 November 2014. rates ensure that all its employees, including apprentices, are paid above the living wage and other departments 11 am are following suit, including DECC. Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Norwich. Baroness Wheatcroft (Con): My Lords, the minimum wage is only a floor. Many companies are now choosing to pay the living wage and, indeed, ensuring that their Introduction: Baroness Brady suppliers pay it. Can my noble friend give us some numbers on that? 11.06 am Karren Rita Brady CBE, having been created Baroness Lord Newby: My Lords, the number of companies Brady, of Knightsbridge in the City of Westminster, that were accredited for paying the living wage in 2013 was introduced and took the oath, supported by Lord was 432. I believe that the number has more than Sugar and Lord Feldman of Elstree, and signed an doubled during the course of this year. undertaking to abide by the Code of Conduct. Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab): My Lords, will the Minister identify those people in government Introduction: Lord Callanan departments who do not pay either the living wage or take into account what people need? Will he please 11.12 am comment on the large number of people working in the care sector who get the minimum wage but do not Martin John Callanan, Esquire, having been created actually receive it because they are not paid for the Baron Callanan, of Low Fell in the County of Tyne time taken in travelling between clients? How on earth and Wear, was introduced and took the oath, supported can the Government announce that the route out of by Lord Inglewood and Lord Bates, and signed an poverty is work in these circumstances? undertaking to abide by the Code of Conduct. Lord Newby: My Lords, as I said, a number of National Minimum Wage departments already pay the living wage. It is fair to Question say that there is a move across the rest of government in that direction, which is not yet complete. It is for individual departments to take those decisions. As far 11.18 am as care workers are concerned, HMRC, which is Asked by Baroness Hollis of Heigham responsible for enforcing the minimum wage, has done a significant amount of work on this and is increasing To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light its enforcement activities in the care sector and elsewhere. of the fall in value in real terms of the National I take the point that the noble Baroness makes. In Minimum Wage since 2010, what assessment they 2012-13, HMRC identified £3.9 million in arrears of have made of any additional cost to the Exchequer wages for 26,000 workers who were not getting their in tax credits and other benefits. full whack on the minimum wage. Lord Newby (LD): My Lords, in the evidence that it Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD): My Lords, there submitted to the Low Pay Commission in January this is a sensitive relationship between raising the minimum year, the Treasury looked at the impact of increasing wage and employment levels. Does my noble friend the national minimum wage to £7. It estimated that agree that it is only now, with rising employment and overall net borrowing would be reduced by between economic growth, that we can afford to give priority to £30 million and £70 million. The figure is relatively raising the real level of the minimum wage, together low because there would be an increase in social with simplifying benefits and raising tax thresholds as security spending as a result of fewer jobs, higher a way of helping the low paid? prices and lower corporation tax receipts. Lord Newby: My Lords, I completely agree with my Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Lab): My Lords, last noble friend; the increase in the tax threshold has year HMRC failed to collect more than £250 million made a major impact on living standards. That is why as a result of the failure to keep pace with the minimum real household disposable income, which is the key wage. Work is no longer the route out of poverty; the figure looking at living standards, increased by some majority of those in poverty are now in work. This is 2.2% in quarter 2 2014, and why the OBR forecast that living wage week and the living wage is, rightly, voluntary, earnings will rise faster than inflation from the second but it would save HMRC more than £3 billion a year half of this year for every year to 2018. in reduced benefits and increased tax revenues and, above all, it would make work pay. DWP pays the Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab): My Lords, when the living wage but HMRC, with 25,000 fewer staff, does Labour Government introduced the national minimum not. Why not? wage in 1997, we were told that unemployment would 1731 National Minimum Wage[LORDS] Berlin Wall 1732 [LORD CAMPBELL-SAVOURS] these events. Commemorative messages will be placed go up. In fact employment went up. Why does the along the route of the wall, including one from the Minister think that employment went up when we Mayor of London. introduced the national minimum wage? Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab): My Lords, it is Lord Newby: My Lords, there are a number of difficult to believe that until a short 25 years ago our reasons. One was that it was introduced at a time when continent and peoples were divided. I am sure that the the economy was growing, which made it easier
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