Through Good Times
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TRI.W04;038-043.ims_inter 8/14/06 12:29 PM Page 38 through good times T h ree pillars of American Vipassana ta l k to Tricycle about thirty ye a rs of teaching in the We st . Left photo: Sharon Salzberg, Jack Kornfield, and Joseph Goldstein, 2004. Right: Goldstein, Salzberg, and Kornfield, in the mid-seventies O ver thirty ye a rs ago, Sharon Salzberg, Joseph tual guidance. Although there we re many who G o l dstein, and Jack Kornfield returned from South w a n t ed to pra c t i ce, institutions to support this rig- Asia to American shores bringing the ancient Budd h i st o rous mind-t raining p ra c t i ce, with its emphasis on meditation technique that was to become one of the residential re t reats, we re nonex i stent. So in 1976, m o st popular co n te m p l a t i ve pra c t i ces in the co u n- S a l z b e rg , Goldstein, and Kornfield founded the t r y. The first We stern students of some of the most Insight Medita t i o n Society (IMS), in Barre , re n owne d Thera vada te a c h e rs of their life t i m e — M a ssachusetts. A decade later, in 1986, Kornfield M u n i n d ra-ji, Dipa Ma, Ajaan Chah, and others — co - founded Spirit Rock Medi t ation C e n ter, in S a l z b e rg, Goldstein, and Kornfield separa te ly, but Wo o d a c re, California. IMS and Spirit Rock are now a l m o st simulta n e o u s ly, learned the medita t i ve the larg e st and most active Vipassana ce n te r s in p ra c t i ces of Vipassana, often tra n s l a ted as “insight North America. This past spring, T r i c y c l e e d i t o r m e d i tation” or co l lo q u i a l ly as “mindfulness pra c- James Shaheen tra ve led to Barre to ta ke adva n - tice.” Returning to America, they met in 1974 at the tage of the ra re opportunity to meet with all thre e f i rst session of Naropa Inst i t u te, ca tching the gre a t te a c h e r s together, and to ask them about the w a ve of inte re st of a generation hungry for spiri- p a s t, present, and future of American dharma. 3 8 | T R I C Y C L E W I N T E R 2 0 0 4 TRI.W04;038-043.ims_inter 8/14/06 12:29 PM Page 39 and bad Did it ever occur to the three of you that you’d still be There were really two reasons I went to Asia: First, I’d read teaching after thirty-plus ye a rs ? books about Zen and studied Buddhism at Dartmouth. In Joseph Goldste i n : I never thought about it, although 1967 I asked the Peace Corps to send me to a Buddhist there was nothing else I really could do. [laughs] country so I could go and find a monastery, and ended up in Thailand. I had a deep spiritual longing, and there What about you, Jack? seemed to be something magical about finding a temple Jack Kornfield: You know, it just happened, and actu- or a teacher. The other reason was that I was quite ally, that’s probably the best description of the entire u n h a p p y, and had experienced a lot of suffering in my life process. Maybe the most gracious way you could put it and in my family. I was just looking for some way to deal is to say it was karmic. with my own suffering. The notion of aspiration in some grand way wasn’t there. I think it’s the same for a lot of S h a ron, did you ever have any training in anything seekers: You look at your own life and say, “There’s some other than meditation pra c t i ce ? potential for living in a wiser and more conscious way, ” S h a ron Salzberg : I went to nursing school, although and you go looking for that. It wasn’t about enlighten- nothing came of it. I would echo Jack and Joseph. Peo- ment initially. ple say about our early teaching, “You must’ve been so brave,” or “You must’ve had such vision.” But it was What about you, Joseph? Was there this notion that more like, “Oh, let’s do this, let’s give it a try.” We took you could become enlighte n e d ? it one step at a time and it just happened. JG: Yes, for me there was. I was also in the Peace Corps in J G : I think we really caught a wave of interest in this Thailand from 1965–67. I later went back to Asia to look country, so it was largely a function of good timing. for a teacher because of an experience I’d had while I was in Thailand. A friend had been reading from a Ti b e t a n You all went to Asia when you we re very young. Did text on the empty nature of the mind, and just by listen- you have high hopes for enlightenment then? Do yo u ing I suddenly understood things in a very different way. h a ve the same aspirations now ? It was a powerful moment, and afterward, I wanted to J K : I don’t think I even knew what high aspirations were learn a way of developing or deepening that understand- at that time. It was much more of an organic process. ing. So, yes, I definitely had an aspiration for awakening. W I N T E R 2 0 0 4 T R I C Y C L E | 3 9 TRI.W04;038-043.ims_inter 8/14/06 12:29 PM Page 40 S h a ron, what took you to Asia? m e n t except as freedom from suffering or freedom SS : You would call that faith. I was a student at the from defilement. State University of New York at Buffalo in 1970 and studied Asian philosophy. They had a study-abroad The Indian meditation master Dipa Ma [ 1 9 1 1 – 1 9 8 9 ; program. I asked to go to India to study Buddhist med- see T r i c y c l e , Spring 2004] was a teacher to all itation and they accepted that, so I went. I wouldn’t s a y t h ree of you, and I do get the impre ssion that she my aspiration had anything to do with enlightenment. i n s i sted that enlightenment was ce r ta i n ly poss i b le in I don’t know if I had a real concept of the word. It was this lifetime and that she spoke of it often. Do yo u more that I was drawn to the Buddhists’ very frank a void the to p i c ? acknowledgment of the suffering in life, which I had JG: No, not at all. First, within the Vipassana tradition certainly experienced some share of. Hearing it spoken of Buddhism there are euphemisms for enlightenment. about so openly was a tremendous freedom in itself. I A phrase we heard a lot was “finishing the course,” liked the idea that Buddhism wasn’t just for special or which means finishing the course of all the stages of talented people who could turn their minds around; insight, leading to different stages of awakening or the tools really existed for anybody, including me. enlightenment. But why do we hesitate to discuss it? T h a t ’s really what inspired me to go. I don’t even I t ’s because Western psychology is different from know that my early teachers spoke about e n l i g h t e n- A s i a ’s. Here, self-judgment, self-doubt, and feelings of One-on-one with Joseph Goldstein What do you think you would have done if you hadn’t that quality of looking at b e come a dharma te a c h e r ? I probably would have w h a t ’s going on: What is gone to graduate school in history or to law school. I had this? What’s the hook in a vague interest in law as an undergraduate, but it really this? It’s that sort of wasn’t a serious consideration. investigation that best describes how my mind Why a lawyer? I really enjoyed a class in constitutional works, particularly in law as an undergraduate. I like to dissect issues, my situations of suffering. mind just works that way. I guess you could say I turned that analytical bent inward, toward my own Do you ever doubt the co u rse yo u ’ ve ta ke n ? No, never. mind. I like to see distinctions. It helps to create a clar- It’s been such an amazing unfolding, and there’s noth- ity of understanding. ing I’d rather be doing, except for maybe being on retreat myself.