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House of Lords Official Report Vol. 765 Wednesday No. 66 11 November 2015 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Prisoners: Imprisonment for Public Protection Sentences........................................1987 All-Party Parliamentary Groups.................................................................................1989 Rugby World Cup 2015..............................................................................................1992 Higher Education: Part-Time Students......................................................................1995 Trade Union Bill First Reading................................................................................................................1997 European Union Referendum Bill Order of Consideration Motion...................................................................................1997 Bank of England and Financial Services Bill [HL] Committee (2nd Day).................................................................................................1997 Bilateral Trade: United Kingdom and Africa Question for Short Debate ..........................................................................................2035 Bank of England and Financial Services Bill [HL] Committee (2nd Day) (Continued)..............................................................................2052 £4·00 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldhansrd/index/151111.html PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords £4 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords £600 LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £65 (£105 for a two-volume edition); Lords, £60 (£100 for a two-volume edition). Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage. The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2015, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1987 Prisoners: Public Protection Sentences[11 NOVEMBER 2015] Prisoners: Public Protection Sentences 1988 test. He is extremely mindful of the concerns expressed House of Lords and of his powers, but there are no plans to use those powers at present. Wednesday, 11 November 2015. Lord Wigley (PC): My Lords, the Minister will 11 am recall the passion that our colleague the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, brought to this issue. Since The House observed two minutes’ silence to mark he retired in March there has been a change of Armistice Day. Government and of Minister. Could we please have a change of policy, too? Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Southwark. Baroness Evans of Bowes Park: Along with the noble Lord, I pay tribute to the much missed noble and learned Prisoners: Imprisonment for Public Lord, Lord Lloyd. I hope that the noble Lord sees that Protection Sentences we take this extremely seriously. As I mentioned, we Question have started to tackle the unacceptable backlog—but more needs to be done. Through the indeterminate 11.07 am sentences prisoner co-ordination group, we have also looked at improving processes. Waiting times for Asked by Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood transferring IPP offenders to open prisons has fallen To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many of from around nine months to six to eight weeks. We are those still serving Imprisonment for Public Protection prioritising places on offender behaviour programmes sentences have now been imprisoned for more than and interventions. We are encouraging offender managers five times their tariff sentences, and whether their to draw up sentence plans that consider a variety of imprisonment will continue indefinitely unless and interventions. NOMS has also undertaken a series of until the Parole Board is satisfied that it is no longer reviews which we are looking to implement, particularly necessary for the protection of the public that they for prisoners who have had four or five post-tariff reviews should be confined. and still failed to progress. I understand the concerns raised by noble Lords but we are taking action. Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con): Of those prisoners serving sentences of imprisonment for public Lord Beecham (Lab): My Lords, on 3 December 2014, protection at the end of September 2015, 392 had I asked the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, what courses to served more than five times their tariff. IPP prisoners promote rehabilitation were available for IPP prisoners will continue to be detained until the independent other than those sex offenders for whom he had confirmed Parole Board is satisfied that the risks they pose to the that, public are safely manageable in the community. “the Government have increased the number of commissioned completions of courses”.—[Official Report, 3/12/14; col. 1317.] Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood (CB): Iam With his customary deftness and elegance, the noble grateful to the Minister for that Answer. She confirms Lord avoided answering the specific question. I ask that there are in our overcrowded and expensive prison the Minister the same question: what is the position in system already several hundred prisoners serving well relation to the provision of these essential courses for beyond the appropriate term representing punishment other IPP offenders? for their offending. Some 392 have done more than five times their tariff term, and many hundreds more have Baroness Evans of Bowes Park: The noble Lord will also served well beyond their term. This is of course a be aware that it is not mandatory for IPP prisoners to form of preventive detention—internment—entirely complete specific courses and programmes before they alien to our traditional criminal justice approach. can be considered for parole. In fact, the sentencing In 2012, that whole system was finally abolished planning guidance reinforces the Parole Board’s general and power was given to the Lord Chancellor to amend obligation to consider the offender’s risk level, so that the test to ensure that those people previously it can also look at broader evidence such as training sentenced could finally secure their release. The previous and education, specialist support and demonstrating a Lord Chancellor failed in that regard. When will this sustained period of stable behaviour. Lord Chancellor finally decide to bring this terrible scourge to an end? Lord Dholakia (LD): My Lords, one of the successes of the coalition Government was the abolition of the Baroness Evans of Bowes Park: I thank the noble IPP, which applies to current and future offenders but and learned Lord for his question. Of course, I am not to those already in the system. Will the Minister well aware that noble Lords across the House have confirm that there are serious delays in the assessment raised this issue on numerous occasions. We are taking process, including delays at parole hearings, resulting measures to attempt to address the situation. One in inmates remaining in our prisons often years after positive thing I hope that noble Lords will accept is their release dates? What steps are being taken to end that the Parole Board is tackling the backlog in oral this injustice? Surely, if the Secretary of State is serious hearings, which has been reduced by 18% since January. about reducing the prison population, he should deal The noble and learned Lord is absolutely right that the with the anomaly that the abolition of IPP sentences Secretary of State has the power to amend the release has created for those in custody now. 1989 Prisoners: Public Protection Sentences[LORDS] All-Party Parliamentary Groups 1990 Baroness Evans of Bowes Park: As I said, we have Lord Rogan (UUP): I wish to ask the Question standing taken steps to improve the efficiency of the Parole in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, on the Board, and we allocated an additional £1.2 million of Order Paper. funding to help it deal with the backlog, which is improving: since January, there has been an 18% reduction. The Chairman of Committees (Lord Laming)
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