[4 SEPTMSna, 1923.]

'Mr. Pickering:. What about the farmer? The MINISTER FOX RAIWAYS re- Mr. MARSHLL: I ant battling for the plied: 1, No. 2, See No. 1. 3, Yes, and farmer, too. Farmers will have to pay a tenders have been invited in Australia. and license for every gun, and it is not right to Great Britain for 20 boilers. 4. The C"hief burden them with such nn imupost. Outside Mechanic-al Engineer. 5 a nd( 6, See -No. 1. the metropolitan area the measure will be 7, No specific number can he laid down; an- unworkable. If we do not wish to make law- nual requirements vary in periods corres- breakers of the people, ire should pass only ponding with those when large blocks of loco- laws that are reaspuable. I protest also motives were placed on traffic. As, for in- egainst the high fees proposed. stance, in 1901, 1902, and 1903 107 locoino- tives were put into use. These are now int On motion by Mr. Bron, debate adjourned. course of requiring boiler replacements, giv- ing estimated requirements of 47 boilers for House adjourned at 10.15 P.M. 1923-24, 46 for 1924-25, whereas only 22 are estimated to be needed for 1025-26. The position in regard to boilers is referred to at paragraphs 17 and 3ff of the Commissioner 'a Annual Report, 1923. 8, Year ended 30-6-18, 6; 30-6-19, 4; 30-6-20, 8; 30-6-21, 9; 30-6-22, 9; 30-6-23, 15. 9, B oilers made in loco. shops are as good in quality as any hitherto imported. The tenders now being invited will enable a comparison -of costs to be made; the last boilers, 10 in number, were imported in 1911.

tegtelative EeebV QUESTION-KENDENUP SETTLERS. Tuesday, 4th Sept ember, 1925. Mr. HUGHES asked the Premier: 1, Is he aware that settlers are leaving Kendenup, and that ublesa fertilisers and seeds are pro- Pag vided for the remaining settlers, it will he, Questions:- Railways, loo. bolesm...... 545 Sestdenup settlers .. .. 545 impossible for this season's crops to be Diabetes, IanlIn treatment .. 545 planted? 2, If so, is it the intention of the Pape: industrial Development, advances .. BrflsElectric Light and Power Agreement Amend.- 548 Government to do anything to keep the set- meat, l...... tlers on their holding? 3, If the answer to 1'lnjarra-Dwarda Railway Extension Act 546 Amendment. Ss...... question (2) be in the affirmiative, what ne- Inspection of Scaffoldhng. 2a...... 548 tion is it proposed to take? Redistribution of Seats, 2R...... 548 Industrirs Assistance Act Continuance, 2R... 68 The PREMIER replied: 1, No, hut I1 am aware that crops cannot be grown without seed and fertiliser. 2, The State Government was not, and is not responsible for the sub- The SrEAKER took the Chair at 4.30 p.m., division and settlement of Kendenup Estate. and rpad prayers. It has offered, snbjec9 to the company's agrLement to provide security over the land, to make advancees for the purchase of seed QUESTION-RAILWAYS, LOCO. and fortiliser and for sustenance, and this BOILERS. offer is still open. There has been made Mr. WtILLCOCK asked the Mfinister fur available £2,000 for works in tile vicinity to Railways: .1, Ts it a fact that there is a provide emnploymient for settlers, and £50 has shortage of boilers at the Loco. Shops which been granted for relief through the Charities will materially impede the preparation of en- Department. The estate has now been of- gines for the current year? 2, What 'is the fered to the Government, and the offer will extent of the shortage? 3, Is it a fact that be sent on to the Land Purchase Board. 31, a recommendation has been made that boilers Answered by No. 2. he impcrteil? 4, Which officer of the Rail- way Department is responsible for Saab re- cwinntation, if any? 5, Which officer nf QLUESTION--DIABETES, INSULIN thle Railway Department is responsible for the SUPPLIES. Shortage of boilersi 6, When was the short- M-%r.LUTEY asked thle Colonial Secretary: age first reported by the officer responsible? 1. Are sup-plies of insulin for the cure of 7, Is it a fact that the number of new boilers diabetes procurable in the State of Western required to keep np the equipment of theP Australia? 2, If not, will he try n- rcrrcr locos. in the Railway Department is approzi- a supplyIyad arately 14 per year? S, 'What is the number that has been built for eacb of the past six The COLONIAL SECRETARY replied: 1, years? 9, Is it not n faent that boilers of as A Small Supply of insulin, sufficient for the goad quality can be built as cheaply at the treatment of one case of diabetes, has been Loco. Shops as imported boilers cost? inade available to the Honorary Medical Staff 546 [ASSEMBLY.] of the Perth Public Hospital. No other sup- duced until anl outcry is made that all these ply is available. 2, It is expected that more things should be subject to inspection. w~ill be available shortly, when a supply wvill Mir. A. Thomson: -I did not intend to coll- hie procured? vey that. Mr. DAVIES: Building in Western Aus- tralia is only in its infancy. The Govern- PAPERS-tNDUSTRIAIL DEVELOP- inent, however, are wvise in providing for the MENT, ADVANCES. inspection of suich dangerous gear as scaf- folding, although the need for this may not in thle Mr. SPEAKER: It wvill be fresh have existed as m~uch !in days goue by as it minds of members that the Leader of the does now. ThEle Government haive been twitted the following Opposition last week moved by menmbers on this side for intr6dncing the motion:- Labour polic 'Y. This Bill wats introduced That all papers relating to the applica. through the advocacy of National Labour tions for Government assistance that were memib ers. ]last year thle Premier promised referred to or reported on by the Council to bring I down. It was prepared for intro- of Industrial Development, be laid onl the duction last year, as the Minister for Works Table of thle House. will admnit, but it w-as not brought down During the debate the Minister for Mines then.' Before Parliament assembled mnem- suggested that if the motion were carried it hers ,i-ere given an assurance that the Bill would he unwise to lay the whole of tile %,(ould be introduced this session. The morn- papers on the Table, but that hie would hare her for Sussex (Mr. Pickering) read a letter a precis maclb containing information as fromi a firm of architects, a paragraph of nearly as possible in complianxce with the which contained the following:- motion of the meniber for Boulder (Hion. P. Unless there is a world-wide need for Collier). I have that precis 1,ow, and it will suich a Bill, and I have heard] nothing of be left in the Speaker's roomn under nmy care. the kind, I see no necessity for its intro- It is marked ''Confidential only.'' Members duction here. ' can see it for themselves in my room at any This statement surprised me. This is thme time. It is for confidential perusal. only State on the mainland of Australia that has not passed a scaffolding Act. Mr. McCallum: There is not one in Vie- BILL.-ELECTRIC LIGHT AM)D POWER toria. AGREEMENT AMENDMENT (No. 2). Mr. DAVIES: The lion, member is misin- Introduced by the Minister for Mines and formed. New South Wales introduced the read a first time. Scaffolding Act in 1902, and it has been amended several times, notably !in 1908 and ,1912. South Australia introduced a Scaf- BTLL-F-INJARRA-DWARDA RAILWAY folding Inspection Act in 1907, and Queenst. EXTENSION ACT AMENDMENT. land an Inspection of Machinery and Scaf- Read a third time and transmitted to the folding Act tn 1908. This latter Act was repealed, and the Inspection of Scaffolding Council. Act brought down in 1915. New Zea- land introduced a Scaffolding Act in 1908, BILL-NSPECTYON OF SCAFFOLDING. since when certain amendments have beern amade to it. Victoria wsas the last State, with Second Reading. the exception of Western Australia, to intro- duce a Scaffolding Act, this haviug beeni Debate resumed from the 30th August. b1roughit down last year. It did not com~e Mr. DAVIES (Guildford) [4.401: I wel- into operation until March of this year. comie the introduction of this Bill. A ina- Western Australia, therefore, is only follow. sure similar to this 'vas prepared in 1913, iag in the footsteps of the other States. I bot was ,,ot introduced. The main opposi- admit this is merely a machinery measure, tion to the Bill from members on this side of and we must deal with it in Comamittee. Not- the House appears to comae front the fact Withstanding file Opposition that has cotte that there luav ' been 110 serious accidents in from members on this side, particularly those the building, trade. This is a foolish nrgn* who leave spoken from thme cross-bencies, 1. tre'at to 1130. hope they will see their way to accord this Mr. A. Thomson: Another objection to it meaesure their full support. The member for wvas that it meant the establishment of an. Sussex wras misinformed as to there being no other Government department. agitation for the Bill. Mr. DAVIES: I remember the day when Mr. Pickering: We have only your assur- thse quarries and clay holes in this State ance that there is an agitation for it. %.re not subject to inspection. Since the Air. DAVIES: Every State of the inain- onvernment brought their quarries and others land of Australia and New Zealand, as I have under the rules governingr the inspection of remarked, ins such a measure in operation. mines, I know that no fatal accident has oc- Even if there were no such Act in any othmer eurred in that connection. It is foolish to State, we should pass this Bill. There is on sugaest that this Bill should not be intro- our statute-book niany an Act to the credit [4 SE3PTEMBER, 1923.]14 541 of' the Parliament of Western Australia that isine may hie the basis upon which the redlis- has not been passed by any other legialiture tribution is to be made. I hare before mei in the world. the report of the Commissioners appointed to 'Mr. Wilaeck: The Workers' Homes Ant, divide the SUite into 5') districts for the elec- for inrtance . tion of members of the Legislative Assembly, 'Mr. DAVIES: Yes. I urge members, par- and] from tIhat report I find that on thre 24th ticularly onl this side of the House, to mlake 'May last certain electorates hadl fallen to very any objections that they have to offer, in the swall numbers. Vilgarn had 760 electors, Cu'e Committee stage, and to carry the second 605, 'Menzies 543, 'Mt. 'Martraret 445, and 'Mt. reading unopposed, thus proving quite clearly Leonora 649; making a total for those five to those who now claim that the Government seats, returninig five members to this House, are somewhat indifferent to industrial leg-is- of only 3,002 electors. 1.1 ion-- 'Mr. 'Marshall: Are you sure that thiose~ Mon. W. C, Angwia:- Do not put the Goy- figures give all the people in those district-? eraniest away too clearly.' That sort of 'Mr. .JOHN.\STON : I am niot sure, but they pleading does thre Coverament no good. are the certified officinl enrolneats. In my Mr. DAVIES: I trust that when the qiieC5 opinion an electoral canvass of Western AUs- tion goes to the vote not one member ont this tralia, should have been muade before the Coum- side will be against thle Bill. umission entered onl their work. I know that Hon. P. Collier: Whby not even one? in my own electorate that was not done, and Would not you be satisfied with carrying the that in thme Will iains-Narrogin district there Bill? Or do you think it would have a better aire hundreds of unenrolled electors. Against political effect if there was not a ''No'' the figures which I have quoted there is the against it? fact that in my electorate there are 3,712 MrT.DAVIES: In say opinion, the opposi- electors, or some 700 more than the total of tion to the mrasure on the part of members the five electorates I previously quoted. How- on this side conies from their being inisin- ever, when we come to the metropolitan area, formned. where there has been a great increase of popui- Hon. P. Collier: it comes from their lation during thre last 10 years, we find that political troglodytes. Anyhow, they must the disproportion of electors is much "'ore vote against the Bill if their votes are to be serious still. We find 10,412 electors in the tonsistent with their speeches. Canning electorate, 9,524 in Leederville, and 'Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The member for 8.696 in Suhinico. No member who believes in Gaildford will address the Chair. fair representation of the people, awl gives M.%r.Johnston: Seine of uts are supporting consideration to the many factors which have the measure. to he taken into account, hut iMuIst agree that 'Mr. DAVIES: T hope that hon. members the figures T have quoted show the urgent and who have spoken in opposition to the Bill will sierious necessity for Liredistribution of sears now Eoe their- wayv clear to support it. on just and equfitable lines before we go to thme people again. Tn a. measure which was Question put and passed. passed last session, the Electoral Districts Bill read a second timec. Act, Parliamnent laid] down a basis of repre- sentation on which the 'Royal Commissioners Mr. SPEAKER: Is the Minister going were tu act. The Government appointed a itto Committee with the Bill to-day? Royal Comimission, aid in my opinion they The Minister for Works: The member appointed the biest that cold be obtakined for for Souith Fremantle (M-%r.McCallum) has the purpose, for if any inen ought to lie able placed his proposed amendments on the to do this work well, it is thle Chief Justice, N.otice- Parer, but th~e mneitber for 'Katanniug the Chief Eilectoral Offiver, aind the Surveyor ().lr. A. Thomson), who also intimiated that General. Iw bad amendwients to move, has not dlone so Mr. Lathan: Buit don't you think thor,. ret. .1 projose. therefore, to postpone the shiould have called evidence? Crarnmittcr- dAnge to the, nest sitting of 'he '.\r, JiOHNSTON: That might w-ell hare Houtse. Ifleanimei I hope thne memi~ber for been dlone, liut T do not know that 'ye could 1{atanin-t w~ill put his amendments on the have hadl a more independent Commission Notir-e Paper. than the one appointed hr the Goverment. 'Mr. Mfarshll: Ani independent Coamamis- sion ii not necessarily in efficient Commis- lh1LL-RF;D1)STRIBLTTIO'N OP SEATS. Sion. Second Reading, M.%r..JOnNcroN_: In my opin ion the re- Dehate' resumed from the previous sitting. sult of tire Commission's efforts is distinctly disappointing. When the Electoral Districts Mr. JOHN\STON\ (Williams - Narragin) Bill was before this House last session, the f4.50]1: The necessity for a redistribution of Premier said lie expected that two new seats seats needs no emphasising at all. Probably would he given to the metropolitan area. I every member of this Chamber who looks ait then forecasted that under that measure the the list of the numbers of electors in the metropolitan area would get three additional various Assemrbly electorates will agree that seats. I nn sorry to see that amy foreast was there is urgeQnt need for redistrihtuion before right, and that the metropolitan -area, where the next general election. The only point at already ive unfortunately have nearly half the .548 [ASSEMBLY.]

population of Western Australia, is to get 2lcrredin, has not been given any fresh re- three new seats instead of the two forecasted presentation at all. Even if the present hr the Premier. nlumber of seats had( beet, retained for the [-fin. W. C. Angwin: The Premier also Great Southern District and east of it, there forecasted that there would be only one new should, I contead, have beeun a new seat east seat for the Country Party, but you have got of the Great Southern railway and taking in twoe. the Cerrigin and Bruce Rock districts. This should hlave been done Mr. JOHNSTON: The Premier forecasted even if the seats along the Gireat Southern line had been correspond- twoe. ingly re-arranged, and the same NO; ottoe. Turn up number of leon. W. C. Angwin: representatives returned from that area. his speech and look at his figures. Hon. P. Collier: But those people are Mr. The agricultural d1is- JOHNSTON: oly) pioneets. They had no say. tricts are entitled to at least two mnore seats. The mnetropolitans quota fixed uinder the Ele- Mr. JOHNSTON: These deserving pion- toral Districts Act is 5,583 electors. and a eers should hav'e had their own separate re- margin of 20 per cent, is allowed by the niea- presentation. I speak fr-om knowledge when sure either way. That is to say, there is a 1 say that the districts in question dto not margin of allowancee of 1,'117 either above or wish to renmain, tacked on to Pingelly, Bev- below the metropolitan quota of 5,583. There- crier, and York. I am not going to touch fore the ,nflximtau .... rolmnent for am etropoli- 01, the positin Of thle Murehlison area, be- tan seat would he 6 l700 electors. Yet weCfind cause that aspect was so fully dealt with by the mnerber for M.%t.Magnet (Honl. Al. F. that the proposed new -Ma3 lands seat has only .1,911 electors, or a few above the quota qnd Troy ). That halt. msember said that the 789 below the maxinmun. 'VTo proposed MKt. Mfurchison area is entitled to better represen- Hawthorn seat has 4,772 electors, and the pro- tation rathter than that thiree newli seats should posed Karrakaitta seat 4,831. hie given to the city. As to that I agree with Hon. W. C. Angwin: And Leederville, has him in every respct. 4,726. Hont. P. Collier: That would be the se. Mr. JOHNSTON: Thtus Mt. Hawthorn has end alternative. 811 electors tinder the quota, and 1,928 uinder Mr. JOHNSTON : There are serious the snaxiiiiiila, and Karrakatta, has 752 elec- anomalies in the Southl-Western electorates. tors under the quota, and 1,869 under the Kirupp, with its timiber mill and purely in- maximumi permitted by the Electoral Dis- dustrial interests, has been taken fromt the triets Act. The Commissioners should have Collie electorate and included in Sussex. given more consideration to the factor, laid Hon. P. Collier: What a shocking thing to don for their guidance, of distance fromt include that Centre in such anl aristocratic the capital, and should have used the margin electorate! Common workers! of 20 per cent, permissible above the quota The Minister for Works: They represent to its full extent it, the metropolitan area. a fine body of men. to any extent at all, If that hadl been done Mr. JOHNSTON: I agree. The Leader the metropolitan area would have bad only of the Opposition knows I am not talking of the two extra seats forecasted by the Premier. them in that sense. The Commissioners htave Now let tae turn to the agricultural areas. included the Xirupp mill in a purely farm- One would naturally epctosee a neiv seat ing constituency. given to those parts of ttet agriCultural dis- tricts which have shown most progress dur- Hion. P. Collier: But it must lower the tone! ing the last few years. No part of Western Australia has made more pregress dluring the Mr. JOHNSTON : The Commissioners last few rears than the area north of Wicke- were told they should have regard to cent- pin and lying between Wickepin and M.\erro- usunity of interests affecting the people in din, which is served by the Wickepin-Mer- the various electorates. That should have redlin line. If there is any part of Western beeni [lie determining factor. I will not take Australia which deserves a new scat, it is second place to the Leader of the Opposition that huge area served by the Wickepin-Mser- sn my regard for the dignity of labour. redin line and( the Yillimninning-Rondinin Hon. P. Collier: But it will hurt to have line, and containing the Bruce Rock, Corni- them together! gin, Hondini,, and Kuhin districts. No part Mr. JOHNSTON: It would have been of Western Australia has progressed mtore better to have left the Xirupp mill in the rapidly dluring the last 10 years, and it is an Collie electorate, where it has been for years, amazing thing to mte to see those well-settled rather than tack it on to the fainming elec- districts tacked on to other seats along the torate of Sussex. Instead of that, the Cont- Great Southern railway, instead of being sup- inssonwrs could have added the Balingup plied with rep~resentationl of their own. To and Mullalyop districts to the Sussex elec- me it is most surprising that Plantagenet, torate, rather than in Collie. which, apart from the Kendenup venture- Hon. P. Collier: It is really the outstand- unfortunately burst-has not progressed, ing blot of the Bill. should be given a new seat, while that muag- 'Mr. JOHNSTON : The Comnmissioners nificent, closely settled, and progressive area have not shown regard for the comumunity of which T have named, between Wickepin and interests in these cases. (4 SEPTEMB0ER, 1923. 54.549

Mfr. Underwood: What is "community of would prefer the Bill before the Rouse, than interests''? to go to the country with the existing elec- M r. JOHNSTON: There is a community torates and the anomalies we are suffering of interests among farmers and, tberefore.. from at pr-esent. Ete with the anomalies the aliggestion I miake would be preferable to which attention has been drawn, the Bill to the Commissioners' proposal gives miuch fairer representation to the pea- Mir. Underwood: There is a community at ])le generally than the present electoral boun- interests affecting the whole British Empire. daries. I hope the Premnier will tell usi de- Mr. JOHNSTON: We instructed the Coin- finitely if the Bill can he referred hack to missioners to take cognisanee of community thre Comnmi ssioners, so as to secure a better of interests different from that outstanding redistribution than is now proposed. community of interests referred to by the member for Pilbara (Mr. Underwood). .%r. OHESSON (Cue) [5.6): Like Your- Mr\I. J. 11, Smiith: The mnember for PiH- self, Mr, Speaker, 1 aim one of the slaughtered barn has no community of interests at all; innocents under the proposals outlined in the he is exenhIpt. * Bill. For that reason, C wish to protest on Mr. JOHNSTON: I wish to refer to the behalf of my electorate. 1 realise the great Plantagenet seat, the inclusion of which has difficulty- confronting thle Premnier when lie had the effect of squeezing other seats in hadl to bring forward an Electoral Districts the Great Southern districts out of what one Bill to secure the a ppointmxent of Comujis- would regard as normnni positions. The effect sioners to report on thme redistribution of seats has been to squeeze Katantning uearly down in this Chamber. t realise the diffirlulty, be- to ]Bridgetown, and the Wagia seat has been cause of the trinity sitting behind him. The squeezed up to within three miles of Narro- three sectiofis constituting the trinity have gin, so tlhat a large number of people who beeni fused into one body to suipport the Gov- trade with Narrogin, and others who live near ernment. Naturally the members concerned Wiekepin now find themselves in new electo- in the respective sections expected that their rates. seats would be made as safe as possible un- MNr.Underwood: Poor sausage! Squeezed der any aniding legislation brought for- uip! ward. As they represented the parties w-ho '.%r. JOHNSTON: As to m-y attitude to- kept the Premier in office, naturally they ex- wmards the Bill generally, I intend to vote for petted sonic consideration to be shown thenm. the second reading, because I believe a re- In the first instance, we found in the original distribution of seats is necessary. In the Electoral Districts Bill that the N-orth-West Federal Electoral Act, the Commonwealth seats were made safe for members of the Government have the power to appoint Coin- trinity. The Premier told us that four seats missioners just as we have in our Bill. There would be taken from the outer goldfields. is an additional provision in the Federal The Premier: That was, on the number of measure, however, permitting the work of electors on thle roll then. Commissioners to be referred back to thorn if 'Mr. CHESSON. We now find how~ tite it is considered unsatisfactory by Parliament. Commissioners have done their work. Five That power is repeatedly exercised. The seats have been taken from the outer gold- anomalies to which attention has been drawn, fieldsq. Some sinistt-r influence has been together with further anomlalies which, no brought to bear in connection with the re- doubt, will be mentioned during the debate, distribution of seats. It was known to uts are such that the House would he justified in six weeks before the report of the Coinumis- referring the report back to the Commis- sioners was presented to the House that 6i-a sioners. seats were to be taken f roat the outer gold- Hon. M1. F. Tray: How can we do that? fields. 'We were even told the various streets Mr. JOHNSTON: This House can do that would define the electorates in the central what is right. The Premnier has the right of goldfields areas. It would appear that the reply and I hope he will tell us how it canl be object of the Bill is to satisfy the city anti d]one. If wvecan semure the reference of thle agricultural areas. The Bill gives three ad- Commiissioners' recommendations back to ditional seats to the city and two additional themniand obtain their additional report in seats to the agricultural areas. That me!ans time to dleal with the Pill this ses- that five seats have been taken froii thle outer sion, I would advocate that course being goldfields in erder to provide the city and tire adopted. It is essential that the redis- country with the extra members I have infli- tribution should be made before the elec- rated. The goldfields have thirteen repro- tion. I do not see why the Bill should sentatirce in the present Parliament. Any- not be referred back to the Commissioners, one vonsidering the 'Bill impartially will ad- who should not take more than a fortnight mnit that 3lnrehison has niot rveeived a fair in further considering and amending their dleal when a coimparison is made with oth,-r prollosali If we can Zet a fairer redistri- electorates,. Of the five seats to bie taken bution than the one before uis, it is our duty froam the outer goldfields three are held by to obtain it frin the Commissioners. If our Labour ioabez-s and two by National- choice lies between the Bill and an election ists. If the last Federal election is conducted with the existing eleetoral boun- taken as an indication, it is likely that those dasries, I would be put between the deil and seats will revert to Laboiur. Thus it would the deep blue sea. In those circumstances, L seem the present Bill contemplates taking 550 [ASSEMBLY.)

five seats away from the Labour Party, this the three of 2,864 electors. Yet we are told being clone to satisfy the city and the coun- that this redistribution has been worked out try. The Commissioners were appointed to on a fair basis. The Bill of 1913, intro- consider the redistribution of 46 seats, rot duced by the Labour Government, provided 50. Jf they bad dealt wvith the whole of the three seats for the North-West. The member elec-torates, there would iliot have been such for Pilbara (Mfr. Underwood) moved strong opposition to the Bill. As it was, the a aimendment that the three seats Commissioners were tied hand and foot when should be north of the Tropio of they were appointed. The quotas were fixed, Capricorn. In the Bill before us the Gas- these being for the metropolitan area, 6,000; coyne has been put on a level with the outer for the agriculturall areas, 2,300; for the goldflelds. Had Murchison been treated central goldficlds, 3,000; for the outer gold- fi thme same way there might have been fields, 1,800. There was n margin of 20 per no cause for complaint. Gascoyne can be cent. above or below allowed to the Commis- reached from Oeraldton in 24 houirs by boat, sioners. The promises made by the Premier in eight hours by motor car, and in three when lie introduced the Electoral Districts hours by aeroplane. The mail service in the Bill have becin departed from by the Commis- North-West is much better than that in the sioners. We were promised that at least nine outer goldfilds, where in some places it is seats would lie given to the goldfields and only fortnightly. As for isolation, it cannot probably 10. be for a moment claimed that the North- The Premier: It was not a promise. You West is at as great a disadvantage as are had a statement of the position according to some of the outer goldfields. Take Murehison, thme rolls then,. with 2,202 electors, and compare it with Mr. CHESSON: I will deal with that B~everley's 2,511 electors, witl- Irwin's 2,660, phase directly. The goldfields wifl only have with Pingelly's 2,509, with Wagin's 2,699, nine seats. Some influence has been brought with Mt. Marshall'2s 2,148, or with Plan- to bear regarding the definite promises made tagenet's 2,472; consider these, and see how by the Premier. easily all the places enumerated can be The Premier: I made the statement on reached, as contrasted to the isolation of the the rolls as they were then. Murchison. None can deny that the Mur- Mr. CHESSON: We were told that a re- ehison has been badly treated. No redistri- distribution of seats was necessary. We bution should have been considered until the candidly admit that. If the Murehison dis- electoral rolls were brought up to date by a trict had been given two seats, I would not thorough canvass. No provision has been have made any protest against the Bill, de- made for the enrolment of all the many peo- spite the fact that in a leading article ap- ple working outback on stations and in other pearing in the "'West Australian'' in reply industries, shearers, fencers, well-sinkers, kan- to the statements miade byr the member for garoo-shooters, prospectors, and sandal-wood Mt. Magnet (Hon. M. P. Troy), it was getters. All those people draw their supplies stated that objections came from members of nme-et from the stations, and if the Elec- iwho were disgruntied because of seats that toral Department had been alive to its woik wvere being lost. I realised that if any re- it could have arranged to leave electoral distribution of seats were to take place, the claims at the various station, with a view to Miurchison would lose one seat, but never in enrolling all the people outback before the re- my wildest dreams did I think the boundaries distributioni proposal wvas brought in. What would be extended as suggested in the Bill. is the use of compulsory enrolment if we dto Mi-. Willkoc: Your dreanis would have not make it possible for people to get on the become a uizhtnare. i-oll? At present electors are asked to travel Mr. CHESSON: That is so. When the 50 or 100 miles to the uearest town to get Electoral Districts Bill was brought down claim cards. In my view, the Electoral De- Inst session le were told that the reasons why pertinent should take claim cards to those the North-West was to have four seats were people, or at all events to the stations where its isolation and its vast territory. But they get their meat supplies. The Bill plac- under this Bill the Murchison will be more ards the incompetency of the- Commissioners isolated thani any of the North-West elector- to "-horn the work of redistribution was en- ates, with the exception of Kimberley. Then trusted. When we consider ]how the several leok at the territory and 'the qjuota! Murchi- electorates have been treated, their quotas son is to have 122,000 square miles, which is and their distances fronm the capital or from greater than, the territory of any of the the nearest port, it must be admitted the North-West seats except Kimberley, and two Commissioners have failed to carry out and a half times greater than the area of their task, a task which would have Gascoyne, which has only 50,000 square miles. been comparatively easy hiad the advice given Cascoyne, at present, has 1,057 electors, and last session been adopted, namely, that the its nearest coiner is 510 miles from Perth, work be entrusted to a select committee. The -nlereas the -Murchison has 2,202 electors, and members of that select committee, by their its nearest point is 830 miles from the capi- very knowledge of the electorates, would have tal. The Murchison 's quota is within 1.62 of beeni able to do the work with satisfaction to the quotas of the Gascoyne, which has 1,057 all, and certaisily would have avoided the electors, of Roebourne with .587 electors, and anomalies manifest in the Bill. A select core- of Pilbara with 720 electors, or a total for imittee would not have placed the same value [4 SEPTEMBER, 1923.] on the on e-manu-one -vote principle as is at- Was marked out into divisions for them, an tached to it by electors in big centres who, arbitrary quota was set, a very narrow mar- without difficulty, can gvt the least of their gin was allowed either way, and they wrere grievances duly voiced. Electors outback are asked to frame a Bill. not thus advantaged; their's is a voice cry- Mr. Lathanm: They were given a 40 per ing in the wilderness. They cannot get the 1'eat. allowance. consideration that is readily vouchsafed to -.%r. HUGHES: They were given 20 per metropolitan electors. Again, a select coin- cent, either war. inittee would have more hilly appreciated Mr. Lathron: Well, that is 40 per cent. community of interest, dlistance from the sent Mr. HUGHES: If the ather for York of Glovernment, and physical features of the ucere placed iii the position of bringing down country-all important factors which should a satisfactorv redistributiou umeasure tin ier h2- tatken into ecuisideration in amny schemec of similar conditions, he would fail and if he redistribuiition. Mfost nwvmb~'rs already have could not (lit) it, how could any- other three decided how they shall vote on the second muci do it? rendiawu. It is only na~tural that meimbers 'Mr. Lathami: lDetr me, you are conipli- badly treated should put the opinions of their mitntrv. are electors before the House. Since you, Sir, NcI. Hl.'(llES: Quite apart front thme one of the prolposed victiims, it will surprise effvct of the ill onl varioug weinbers, there is ame yen- much if we do not see You hopping 1n0 the number of anomalies it -onl- down from your perch and putting up a scrap doubt that on behalE of the electors who first gave YOU tains. reduices it to an absurdity. The Fle- (oral Districts Act laid downi wel]-dlefined political birth. You have been Placed in the same position as a number of other members, iirimiriplcs for tile guidauce of the Crniltais- and we know %%hat action yon would have sioners. They'vere to consider existing boun- taken if this hlad happened a few years ago. daries; the p~opulation basis on the ascer- All T call say is, that if I do not see you on tained qunota was to he observed ; the area of the floor of the Rfouse putting up a scrap on in electorate was to be a vital consideration. behalf of your electors, I shall know that you The Premier. when introducing the Electoral have slipped. Districts Bill, laid great stress on the point that large areas sheuld have fewer electors M-%r.SPEAKER: Order! than small areas, anid he spoke of the vast '.%r. CHRESSON: We have had in the aesin the back country. To provide that "West Australian'' a leading article dealing the larger the electorate, the smaller shall he with the contentions put forward by the mem- the number of electors required is a reason- ber for Mt. 2.lagaiet (Hon. M. F. Troy), and able method of redistribution. Other import- declaring that those of us who are to be vie- ant factors to be considered by the Commis- titnised Under the Bill are voicing practically sionters were conmmunity of interest and trans- our own opiions. I can assure the House we port faceilities. The Commissioners first had are voicing, not our own opinions, but the to ascertain the quota, the numbher of electors opinions of our electors. None of our electors living iii the district. A return laid before outback are satisfied with the proposed redis- the }louse this session shows that, in tribution. the elec toral district of Perth, 3559 nanacs Mr. Willcek:- They are very indignant were removed by objection. Ta East about it. Perth 623 names were similarly removed 3.r. CHESSON: Yes, they are. We realised during the last bil months. In uo part that a redistrihution wvould have to be made, of the metropolitan area are there va- and we thought that at most we should lose cant houses and, if electors' names ha've but one seat. When we find that, in the 'Mur- been removed from the rolls, it is reasonable chison electorate, we are to have a territory to assume that new electors have taken their larger than that of two North-West seats, and places. Yet no effort whatsoever was made a quota equal to that of three 'North-West t3 have the enrolment brought tap to date. seats, it is no longer to be wondered at that I. have some knowledge of objections; I mny- the 'Murchison electors are dissatisfied. 'Whent .self onl one occasion by objection had 8,00 one leaves the head of the bile, one has to names taken off the Federal roll for the travel hundreds of Miles to reach the settle- division of Perth. The indications were that mient points in the vast Mlurchison electorate. the electors had left their various subdivisions I intend to vote against the second reading. and, owing to these people not having left I would support a proposal to refer the Bill particulars of their change of addreszs, they hpack to the Commissioners in order that some never received the notification of objection. of the anomalies might be rectified. Consequently, their names were removed front the roll, although they were still residing in Mr. HUCHES (East Perth) [5.311: NXo the metropolitan area. I venture to say that one With any ele -toral experience would envy' 75 per rent, of the names removed by oh- the Comnmissioners their task of effecting a jection aire those of electors who still reside redistribution of s.eats, and much less so when in and around the metropolitan area, because the Cornrnissioners were given practically no there is a tremendous amnount of shifting scope uhatreer. Under the Electoral Dis- about wvithin the metropolitan area. To .r-- tricts Act passed last session, the Cominis- tnim the correct figures for the quota. there siners ere practically placed in straight- was oly one thin- to do0, namely Make an jackets and asked to frame a Dill. The State effort to have all the unenrohled elec'ors 552 [ASSEMBLY.] placed on the rolls. We have compulsory grow at a similar rate, something might be enrolment but no prosecutions were instituted. said for their redistribution proposals, but If a batch of 100 prosecutions had been in- the settled area of Leederville has 4,726 elec- stituted to warn the electors of the necessity tors and the growing district of Canning has to enrol, the metropolitan area would have 6,381. Thus Canning, though more distant bad 16 seats instead of 15. Instead of tak- fronm the capital and without the good trans- ing this step, the department simply went port facilities that Leederville has, is loaded .ahead and removed all the niames they could, with 1,655 mhore electors. M.%ount Hawthorn making no effort to pla0ce these electors on has 4,772 electors. This is a growing suburb, their proper rolls. I wonder if a similar but is it more so than Canning? Yet Mount course was followed in the country districts. H~awthorn is given 1,609 electors fewer than What efforts were made to clear the country Canning. The whole thing is absurd. In rolls of the dead names th~ereon? If a. return order to eontrast areas, I cut out from the were laid before the House, would it show in nmaj, the area representing the Canning elec- the country districts similar activity to that torate, and compared it with the areas of the displayed in the metropolitan area during Leederville and Mount Hawthorn districts. the last six months? Having neglected to Members can see for themselves that the area a,.eertain the correct enrolment for the metro- of Canning is about equal to that of Mount politan area, it naturally follows that tho Hawth~orn and Leederville combined. yet Commission started from a wrong basis. An Canning has 1,600 more electors than either iniportant factor to be considered, apart from Of those two constituencies. If that is not the actual population, is whether a district ain absurdity, I do not know what is. If that is settled or growing. In the city are certain is not a direct negation anti contravention electorates where there is very small scope of the Act, I do not know what is. Let us for additional population, electorates practi- conmpare the growing district of Canning with cally fully settled. The area of vacant land the settled district of Subiaco. In area, I is very small, and it is very unlikely there suppose Canning is 20 times that of Subiaco. will be any marked increase in the population Subiaco is a little, compact, pocket borough of such districts. On the other hand, there now, right close to the heart of the City; are growing electorates in the metropolita~n Canning is a growing sub-metropolitan dis- area, districts that are growing daily. trict. Yet the Commission have given Can- The Premier: You are a pessimist, then. ning 6,381 electors and Subiaco 5,189. Thus, ,%r. HUGH ES: No; every (lay new houses Subiaco has 1,200 fewer than Canning, all- may be seeni in course of construction. It is though it is one-twentieth of the size, situated only natural to assume there would be a almost at the post office door, in possession higher quota in the settled districts than in of the best transport facilities isn the State, the growing districts. Yet the reverse 0]). completely settled and with very little scope tuimis. Instead of the mnaximum quota being for extension. Is that i,. accordance with applied to settled areas, we find it applied' the Act passed last session? [s that a sound to growing areas. This is a direct negation system of redistribution? It is the very of Parliamnent 's intentions and of any sound antithesis of sound redistribution. It is form of redistribution. Take the Canning everything that the Act does not stand for. eletorate- If Canning were an isolated case we could The Premier: Why take it from the present perhaps say that there had been a mistake member? made there. Let us take Guildford. Guild.- Mr. H UGH ES: The Premier knows that ford is larger in area than Mft. Hawthorn, would be impossible. The Leederville, Canning, Subiaco, andi Karrakatta quota allotted for put together. lIt has an electoral population the metropolitan area, waus 5,583; the margin of 6,023. Mt. Hawthorn which has 1,250 of allowance was 1,117; and the maximum en- fewer electors than Guildlford, has better rehncnt an electorate could hav-e was 6,700, means of communication with the city and is while the minimum "as 4,466. Under the closer to the city than Guildford, which is a scheme of redistribution, the new Caning growing suburb, though perhaps it is not district will have 6,381 electors, or only 319 growing at the same rate as Xt. Hawthorn. short of the maximum. In view of the fact Still it cannot be denied that Guildford is a that no effort has been made to secure enrol- growing suburb. Guildford has 1,297 electors nients, I venture to say that Canning to-day mnore than, Leederville, and Leederville is al- is over the miaximumn allow-ed for any electoral most at the bac-k door of the post office, with district in the metropolitan area. If a couple two or three tramway services. The settled *of meii went around the Canning district with Subiaco area has 834 electors less than Guild- a supply of claim cards, they would find 319 ford. Karralcatta which is probably as close unenrolled electors within a couple of days. to thme city as is Guildford, and certainly has If there is any district in the metropolitan better means of comm~unication with the city .area that is a growing district, it is Canning. than Guildford, is given 1,200 electors less The new Leederville district is a much more than Guildford. In addition to these, further settled Area; the extent of growth there can- comparisons tan be made with Guildford. The not possibly compare with what may be ex- extreme outlying metropolitan seat has been pceted in Canning. If the two districts were given over 6,000 electors; yet the settled area on a par and the Commissioners had calcu- of North Perth has only 5,815. Sorely when lated that Canning and Leederville would the Commissioners cau give Guildford more [4 SEPTESLBE5, 1923.155 553

Alecors than either North Perth or Subiaco, lion. P. Collier: Never mnind about the running into nearly 1,000 in one ease, they officials; it was Cornell. He knew the bou-ia aoldnthave had soy regard for the instrile- daries of somne of the electorates weeks before ions contained in the Act. Whether they were tile ru-port ;var isued. I do not wake reck- hamstrung or not, I do Dot know; certainly less. statements. they took no notice of the guidance Bet for M.\r. Underwood: Where aid Cornell get the Ihein. If anything is needed to show that that information'~ was actually the case we have only to take the 'Mr. SPEAKER: Order, order! new sear at 3.laylauds. That new seat has been M\r. Underwood: The only person I got the given 5,911 electors, actually more than infurmliatiun fromn was the header of the Op- atiliaro or North Perth. Anyone who knows position. 0,at locality is aware that it is growing 3r. 1JUGIIES: It is strange that the iii- rapidly, particularly on account of the eaten- formation about the boundaries should hiave ion of the I nglewood train, which is likely to been available so long before thle report was be very largely availed of. Yet no attention issued. If those who gave that information Fins been paid to thle possibilities iii this dire- did not get it from any authentic source, alt I tion. The district has been given 700 more can ay is they were good guessers. Int say electors than the settled suburb of Subiaco oun elevtorate, long before the report saw the and J00 more than its neighbouring constitu- light of day, I was told, to a house almost, encyv of North Perth. So far is piogress is the new boundaries.V converned ?daylands may well be compared M2Ir. Un,'rderwood: Perhaps you knew a few withi Hawthorn. Both suburbs are extending of thle clerks. at the same rate; yet we find that 'Maylanda Mr. HUll WEB: I know most of the clerksg, has 1,137 electors moure than has Hawthorn. but I dlid nsot get any information from iteom. The settled snburh of Leederville baa 1,200 And I would prefer to know them than the electors less than 'Maylnds. lion. member. Capt. Carter: That is a growing suburb. Mr. SPEAKZER: Order! 'Mr. HlUGHLES: I do not desire to suggest Mr. HUGHES: I did not believe it would that the Commissioners intended to snake be possible for the Commission to take that pocket boroughs, but it is strange that they portion of my electorate that they did actually should have brought about these absurd re- take. sults. It is peculiar that members supporting The Minister for Agriculture: If you had the Government should have had nice little knuowun, it would not have been much good. pocket boroughs made f or them. 'Mr. HUGHtES: From my point of view the The Premier: What are you insinuating? electorate is no worse and no butter off; the ',\r. HUGHES: I am not insinuating any- Commission balanced it nicely. They could thing; I am stating facts when I say that not ha'-e injured mne without injuring an lion. Government supporters have now cosy little member opposite. Pocket boroughs. It appears also that the fact Capt. Carter: They wanted to keep you that they were going to have these pocket here. boroughs was known six weeks before the re- 'Mr. HUGHES: I think they wanted to keep distribution report was issued. the lion. mnembier also. But thley wrant to make The Minister for Works: That is not true. smutrepresent 6,000 electors as against thle lion. MVr,HUGHES: It Was told to me second- msember 's 4,800. They carly realised thait I han'! by a member opposite a considerable was worth one nd a half tinies as nunch as the time before the report came out. lion, member. The Premier: Who told yolt? Capt. Carter: Yours is a pocket borough; ANr. ITUGUES: WVhsocser was responsible mine is a growing constituency. for tile statement, if he was not aware of wvhat M1r. HUGHES: Yes, with 1,200 electors was happening, guessed pretty correctly. less than outer suburban districts. If the Capt. Carter: Tell us what was told to you. hon. member can hold his seat, good tuck to Mr. HUGHES:, I was told, to a house al- him, most, the direction in which my electorate was Capt. Carter: Thank you. going. Mr. HUGHES: Bunt I very nunch doubt it. The Premier: Who told you'l Ron. M. F, Troy: He will wmant. a war cry )MIr. HUCHES: Never mind who told me. for the next election. The Premier: I wont to know. Mr. HUIGHES: We very nearly had a war &%r. HIUGHIES: It was reliable informa- cry for the next elections. The '' Daily tion: it was supported when the report came News" published it, and if they cart get the out. people used to it, then the hon. member wilt MNfr.Corboy: I can assure the Premier chat have it. I do not suppose any member will a memiber of another place gave me practic- say that he is not interested in the Bill. The all .y the whole plan. member for Sussex, for instance, is not only 'Mr. SPEAKER: Order! personally interested, but he is also inter- Mfr. Mullany: You must have consulted the ested to the extent that he is wvondering how officials. it will affect his party. Capt. Carter: It was "Argus'' who told Mr. Pickering: Why pick me? I can look him. after un-self. MVr.SPEAKER: Hon. members must keep Mr. HUGHES: I think I have demon- order. strated that the Bill before us is absolutely [A SEMABLY.j contrary to the provisions of the Act we tors to exceed its quota. If the namnes of passed last year. those people who were removed from the roll The Premier:. You havte not shown that as the result of objections were replaced, the at all. quotas inj many of the electorates would lie Mr. HUGHES: I have already shown the exceeded, and another redistribution wcould Premier the maps. I shall hold them 'up be required. After the next election the because againi for his inspection. Unfortunately, seats will have to be redistributed, when I displayed them before he was in one the elections Will mean a nsumber of fresh of his sleeping fits and did not see them], I enrolmneats. Next year many more people am prepared to give these maps to the Pre- will have their namies placed on the roll, with amier to Jet him try to make what he canl out the result, from that soarce alone, that time of them. quota of two seats will be exeeded. Let us, therefore, have a Redistribution of Seats Capt. Carter: They should be laid onl the Bill that will settle the question for all tinme. Table. The Commissioners would lie able to aprire- Mr. HUGH ES: According to thle Premier's ciate the possibilities of progress in the vari- own statement the size of an electorate had ous districts, and where the population is to he anl importanlt. guiding factor. I think hoe likely to increase. fit electorates w-here there shook his fist ait the House ina order to stress is every pi-obability of an increase in popula- the point whenm he was speaking. The Comn- tion, sulihehent margin should be allowed to maissioner- have produced anomalies by mak- provide for that, and to permit of such a ig sonic electorates twice the size of the quota being fixed that there is no danger of adjoining ontes, possessing- in some eases 1,200 reaching it for ninny years. They have, how- mnore electors than those adjoining constitui- ever,' done the very opposite. encies. If tHant is not a direct negation of The Premier: Did you say two electorates, what the Premier stated lie wanted, I rio not or- five, It is five. know what is. Had the Government made two eleetorales adjacent to N\ortham, together 'Mr. HUGHES:- If thle names of those elec- equal in area to Northaim, and given Nortm tors, which have been removed because of 1,200 more electors than either, the Premier objections during the last six months, are re- would have agreed with ase. Every member placed, we shill have the five seats. There who looks at the Bill dispassionately and are also thme nani11es of people u-ho have come calmly must admlit it is very disappointing. to live in their own houses, and these too The Comnmissioners were not given the re- should be placed on the roll. There are no quisite scope to enable them to do anything. vacant houtses in Perth no0w. The moment a They made one fatal mistake. If they a-erc family leaves a house sonmc other people move shortage of houises that to have regard for distance from the capital, in. There is such a and allot a lesser number of electors: the fur- very often two families live in thmeone place. ther out they went front the capital, the only The concentration of people in their own way for them to work on such a system was houses within densely populated areas is par- to start from the centre and go outwards. ticularly noticeable in the East Perth, West They could have started at the capital, giv- Perth, North Perth, and Perth electorates. L ing that its fair quota of electors, and could have had a lot of experience of this in Perth. then have redistributed seats in circles, gradu- For three years 1. Was responsible for the en- ally reducing the number of electors as the rolinent of electors for' the Federal division constituencies became further from the capi- of Perth. It is ito ancommon thing to find tal. 'Whenever they came to another circle 1,000 new electors in Perth. To do this one they should have provided for a larger area only requlires to go round the hotels, and big and fewer electors. That is the only sound coffee palaces and boarding-houses. basis of redistribution, where it is necessary Hon. W. C. Angwin: No wonder our Coin- to take into account the area, the numbler of nmonwenlth subsidy is down. electors, distance fronm the capital, amid trans- Mfr. HUGHES: One of the reat troubles port facilities. By starting in the south in the Electoral Department occurred on the and redistributing north the Commissioners eve of an election, for we would get hun- achieved absurd results. This Bill certainly dredls of enrolmnents from persons residing in contains the germs of anmother redistribrition hotels, boarding-houses; and the like. in the near future. There is no finality about Thle Premier: People ;vho resided there onl~y it. Growing electorates in the metropolitan at night. area, have been brought up to near the maxi- Alr. HIUGHES: They could not enrol if aturn quota. Already the Canning electorate th~ey resided there only at night. is over its quota. Tile moment an additional The Prenmier: Many of them did so. sent is required to represent the number of Mr, RTHUGHES: That idea, has now been electors concernedl, there must be another re- exploded. The suggestion was put forward1 distribnution. A further enrolment of 700 by people who belonged to the samne party a- e-lectors. in the Guildford district will mean thme Premier. They said that hundreds of another redistribution, and a similar number electors were enrolled for Plerth, though they of 4~w electors in "East Perth will lead to wre not eligible for enrolmnent. the snte thing. If the usenrulledl electors Thn Premier: So they a-ere. inl East Perth were placed on the roll, that Mr. irUC HE9: Tile Commonwealth Govt-rn- disJtriCt WOuld even now exceed its quota, nient spent a lot of money upon an exha'is- Maylanris requires only 700 mnore cec- tixe examination of the rolls to see if this wag [4 SErrxNafl, 1923.355 555

correct, and] whether men who had only a The Premier: You said they exercised too one day qualification had enrolled themselves. much discretion. That is your whole argu- -e found but two irregular enrolnients after mient. months of work. We examined the buns fides Mr. HUGH-ES: Not at all. of* hundreds of claimants ia the city, because The Premier: Yes, it is, of the wild statements made by disappointed M1r, HUGHES: The Premier has misunder- ivernbers of the Party to which the Premier stood me. belon-s. The Premier: No. The Premier: I did not say a word about Mfr. HUGHES: The Commissioners have the Federal rolls. You only know about the evidently misinterpreted the instructions con1- Federal rolls. tained in the Bill, and for this there is Some '.%r. HUGHES: What applies to the Fed- exc use. eral rolls applies to the State rolls. The Pre- Mr. %Munsic: In their report they com- mier is casting an unwarrantable slur upon plained about having their hands tied. the Electoral Department when ho says it Mr. HUGHES: The Premier did not under- allows hundreds of people to get on the roll stand his own Bill. He told us the metro- who are not qualified to he there. The polis would have two new seats, and that authorities do go to the trouble of verifying there would be nine and probably 10 seats for the enrolment, and repeatedly compare the the mining areas. lie said 14 seats was the State rolls with the Federal rolls. quota for the metropolitan area. When an Mr. Chesson: And they strike people's amendment was moved to give it 15 seats namnes off, too. he opposed the amendment. Now, after many Mr. H-UGHES: Yes. I have so far men- names have been removed from the roll, it tioned only the metropolitan areas, but what transpires that the metropolitan area is to of the country districts? I do not think have 15 seats. Snrely the Commissioners many any effort was made to purify the rolls be- be excused for misinterpreting the Bill when fore any redistribution of seats was thought the Premier himself did not understand it. of, There are country electorates in which In all his calculations he has been wrong. it is possible the number of electors willi fall What he told the House has now been dis- below their quota. Plantagenet will shortly proved by the Commission. The House has bG much below its quota. Especially will this been misled by the Premier, whether wilfully be so if the Kendenup settlers leave the dis- or unintentionally I know not. trict. When this House lays down the basis The Premier: You would not be able to of a redistribution of seats and prescribes judge. a method for doing it, the Commissioners Mr. HUGH0ES: There is no need for any- should con forin to what Parliament lays down, one to judge. The Premier made a plain bat they have not done so. Possibly they statement that there would be 14 seats for the have mistaken their jistructions. They have metropolitan area, and nine, with a proba- misinterpreted them to such an extent that bility of 10, for the golffelds. lHe said that practically everything the Bill instructed them dozens of times. to do they have failed to do. The essential The Premier: I know the numbers. features they were told to have regard for Mr. HUGHES: This Bill shows a. very have been disregarded. I do not know on different position. The work of the Commiis- what basis they have -arranged this redis- sioners has been so disappointing that it tribution. It was not in accordance with the would be absurd for Parliament to place the Electoral Districts Act, nor was it sound fromt Bill on the statute-book. NXothing can be the commnon sense point of view. A redistri- said to justify it, and the Premier made no bution of seats is, of course, necessary. It is, attempt to do so when he introduced the however, a difficult task for any three men to Bill. I intend to vote against it. carry out unless they are given some scope. The proper way to carry out such a. scheme Sitting mrspended from 6JL5 to 7.30 p.m. would be to allow the Commissioners to go into the whole question, call evidence if neces- sary, and recommend what they Wliak will be Nlr. PICKERING (Sussex) [7.33]:. Like the best system for the State, instead of the all other members, I have taken a very par- State being subdivided into certain areas for ticular interest in the report of the Royal party purposes. The separation of the State Commission appointed for the purpose of into agricultural, metropolitan, and mining dividing the State of Western Australia. into seats was done for party purposes; otherisem 50 electoral districts. Let me say at the be- for what purpose -was it done? If the Gov- ginning that I have no fault to find with the ernment look upon the Conumissioners as re- Commission. In our Chief Justice I consider sponsible and independent men: able to re- we have one of the best chief justices in distribute the seats on an equitable basis. Australia. In the Chief Electoral Officer we why were they not given power to do that? have a v-ery able officer. So far as the Su- Why1 were they tied hand and foot? This vevor General is concerned, 'we have a capable redistribution is not their work, because they officer in him also. But when one comes to had ao chance of exercising any discretion consider these gentlemen in relation to the in the matter. It is the work of the Premier. problems they had to solve, there may be lie brought down the Bill which prevented some divereenee of opinion. Personally, I do them front having any scope. not think the Chief JL1stice would know very 556 (ASSEMBLYtj much about community of interests and other The Premier: They dlid make every reason- matters of that nature. Nor do I think the .able effort. other Commissioners would have a very in- Mr. PICKERING: As regards my district, timtate knowledge in that connection. I am satisfied that that "as not d]one. The Premier: -No one would have a better Mr. Clmesson : The department merely knowledge. struck off names. Mr. PICKERING: These Commissioners Himn. W. C. Angwin: The department could were vested with, the same powers, presunt- not do the work unless imoney was provided ably, as were given to other Royal Commnis- for it. sions, appointed in Western Australia. MrT. PICKERING: The necessary funds The Premier: The Commissioners were should have been fouind. The matter is of the namned it, the Act. utmost importance, anti the (Goveranment Mr. PICKERI[NG: They were given poe r, should have realised the need for taking I presume, to call evidence as regards any of every care to see that the rolls were per- the dties with which they w-ere entrusted. feet. 1. dto not think they were perfect. Now But I have yet to learn that even one witness Iwish to draw attention to the country dis- w-as sunmmoned. Other Royal Commissions tricts, and mom-e particularly the South-West- were not given greater Powvers to deal with emn and South-Easttern Divisions. Clause & the subject referred to them than were givea of time Royal Commission 's report states- to this Commission. It is to be assumed] Tme wvork of iredistrihution and faria- that the)' find power to call witnesses. lion of two new districts in this area pre- There is no evidence that the Commissioners seted more difficulties than in any of the availed themselves of their power in this other areas, mainly due to the fact that ran direction. Without this valuable aid to a de- two existing districts of Collie and Forrest cision-the basis up)on which a Commnission 's arc bounded on every side by districts with indings are usually built-it is not a which they have little or iio community of matter for surprise that the findings of interest, while, in the case of Collie also, these three Commissioners are not very miuch the enrolment largely exceeds thmequota. It to their credit. I think it would have helped "-as also found that in the existing Nelson considerablyv if the Cominsioners had availed district, with an enrolment of n~early 1,000 themselves of the evidence that was avail- above t~he quota, coammunity of interest was able. I do not think that all the care pos5- more or less absent. . . sible was exercised by the Chief Electoral One would naturally have thought the first Officer in giving information to the Connois- thing which would occur to the Commissioners sion whbich would have helped them most ef- would be to study the quotas of Collie and fectively in coining to a decision. First of Forrest. Had they done so, they would have all, I do not think a proper electoral roll was founid that there "-as considerable room for taken. I do not think any effort 'was made adjustment in the quotas as between these to see that the rolls were correct. two electorates. According to the enrolnment Mtfr. Heron: The only effort made was to on the 24th 'May, 1923, Collie had 3,766 strike jnames off the roll. electors, whilst Forrest hadl only 2,539. But Atr. PICKERING: If names are struck there is nothing in the Commission's report off the roll in one electorate, they Trust, gen- to show that that fact was taken into con- erally speaking, belong to some other elec- sideration at all. Alter the adjustment, the torate. In '"Hansard"' of 1922.3, quota of Forrest is only 2,568, or consider- Vol 'IT.' ably below the quota fixed, being 2,906. What page 2833, the Premier is reported as sany- iag, in reply to an interjection from Mfr. Will- dlid the Cotmmissioners do to adjust Collie'~s cock suggestig that the rolls be put in overplus? They went to the Sussex electorate order- and gave it 661 votes out of Collie. What They w-ill have to be put in order. I do they had to cotisidler was community of inter- ,,ot know whether the public realise that ests. So important was, this that they found we have comualsory enrolmnent, that if they great difficulty in arratnging the quota, this fail to gel on the rolls they can be pro- being due to the fact that there was no eont- secuted, as they are wider the Federal Act. inunity of interests between Collie and For- f hope th~ey will see to it that they do0get rest ot, the one hanrd and the surrounding on the rolls. Of course, if they change districts omithe oth~er. Yet the Comimissioners their residence frequently-, 1 suppose it is a deliberately distum-hed Sussex by putting into little annoying to have to go along and get it 661 votes from the Collie electorate. w-here- on the new roll. Sonic people are very care- as they could have practically adjusited the less about it. diffem-ene as between Collie and Forrest. Theni Nr. Lambert interjected, ''Why not lion. P. Collier: Are all those 661 vtes pr',osecute thenre?' and the Preie r replied: - Xirippm votes? Probably' I should have to start with the Mr. PICKERIN,(. No; they extend righlt lien, member. At any, rate, considlerable dowa the electorate. I want to point out a initerest has been manifested in the Bill. mnost p~eculiar anml.nti regard, and Frot~n those remrks we might infecr that the that is that the Commissioners put the Kir- Premier would have issued particular instruc- ,tpn mill into the Sussex electorate aned, to tions to the Electoral Department to use every miake uip the quota lost to Collie by* that possible effort to see that the rolls were in ileans, took, from Nelson, purely and totally proper order. nagricultural votes fromt Bahingupt anti Mel- [4 SEP'TEMBER, 1923.]57 557 lalyup. It is impossible to understand why 3,33 below. Sussex will have 3,263, which is an adjustment of that nature, was thus of- .357 above. Collie will have 3,397, which is feeted. What is at the back of on- mind is 491 above. If we add up those figures, we that the first thing which itupressed t14, Corn- find that the total of the pluses for the inissioners was; that they had to find so mny SOuth-Westernt Division is 2,161.. and if we new electorates for differen, interests-two take from that the' minus quota, which is for the agricultural interests, anti three for .338, we find that the South-Western Divi- the city- interests. Then tlhey askedl them- sion has a plus quota of 1,823 as against a Felves, "Flow are we going to arrange these minus quota of .546 in the South-Eastern new electorates?"' Front a careful analysis Division. I contend that. on these figures, of all the figures it seems to inc dint the Com- if an additional seat were to be allowed in missioners deliberately set out to establish an that portion of the State, it should have electorate in Plantagenet. I amnnot going to gone to the South-Western Province instead attribute any ulterior motives to the Counnis- of to the South-Eastern Province. sioners. I hanve no reason to believe that the lion. P.' Collier: 'More especially as there gentleman Whbo to-day represents Albany has is likely to be an increase in population any reason to want a more secure seat. there. The Premier: That had nothing to do0 with '.%r. PFUKERJNG: Exactly, I was coming it. Hon. P. Collier: There are the Kendenup to that. We have to take the figures as they aire presented to us. -The Chief Electoral people to be considered now. Mr, Willcek: The member for Albany is Officer at least should know that the group settlers till not he eligible not going to Plantagenet. for enrolment until after Mr. PICIKERING:. I do not know where they havo been in the State six montkhs. he is going, but it has been suggested that the Plantagenet electorate was framed for The Premier : 'Not all of them will be a certain gentleman. From the figures Of eligible, the last election it appears that in Albany 'Mr. PICIKERING: Yes, they will, We Mr. Scaddan scored 738 votes as against 'Mr. were told that the group settlement scheme Wansbrough's 736. andi if 'Jr. Scaddan was for the repatriation of Imperial soldiers, could beat his opponent in Albany he had and that being so, they must he here six every right to assume for himself a much mionthis before they can be enrolled. stronger hold on the outlying districts. The Premier: That is not so. Hon. P. Collier: He has gone back in -Mr. PICKERING: There are many per- Albany a good bit since then. sons who will be eligible for enrolment in Mr. PICKERING: I do not know that. It due course; yet we hare this quota fixed by is, however, my firm conviction that the the Royal Commission! Commi ssioners made up their minds that The Premier: No. Plantagenet was to he one place where a new M r. PICKER"-NG: I can prove my state- electorate should he put. I now shall show ment. why there should not be *a new electorate in The Premier: I have the particulars. Plantaaenet. Taking ais a basis the figures on which the electorates fire fixed, we find M r. PI.CKERlNG: They are net shown in the report. They cannot be here, because that Albany now has a quqta of "3835, which the gronp settlements have only recently is a minus quota of 71 below the fixed mini- been, and still aire being es9tablished in the Sussex mum quota. Katanning has .3,090 voters, 1 which represtents a pins of 184. Wagin has electorate. M.Nr.tutey: Will those people have 2,699, which is a minus of 207. Wifliams- a vote Narrogin has 3,214, which is a pins of 303. for the next election? Pingelly has 2,590. which is a mninus of 397. Mr. PICKERING : Yes, and so they Hon. W. C. Angwia: Williams-Narrogin should. and Katnninf-, have been rather favouredl. lion, P. Collier ; Mtoreover, the number Mr. PICKERINX: If -we total up the will be ever increasing. pluses and the minuses, we find that the 'Mr. PTCKERING: That is so, and before former total 492 while the latter total 604. the Bill becomes law, the Sussex electorate Subtrapting the pluses from the mianuses, we will have more than the margin of 20 per find that the minuses are 112 on the whole cent, above the quota. To make snre that nf those electorates in the Sou th-Eastern the Sussex electorate gets its due proportion, Division. If we add Plantagenet. the pro- the Commissioners have taken from the Collie posed electorate, which has; 2,472 electors electorate a timber mnill and put it into the according to the numiber at ipreseut accred- SLIssex electorate, and robbed the 'Nelson of ited, we have a further minus of 434. some, rf ;t% real agricultural interests. Addline: this minus to the total of the other lion. P. Collier: The Commissioners could minuses, we have a grand total of 546 have fired tte quota nearer the minimum, be- minuses. That is the position of the South- easle of the probable increase in the future. Eastern Division. Now turning to the MNr. PICKERING: That should have been South-Western Division, we find that Mufrray- ill the Commissionlers' minds. When I went WVellington wi~l have a quota of .3,2S7, which tirough the figures and analysed them, I saw is 380 above. Forrest, to which T have that we had almost a6 quota for a new elec- already referred, will have 2,568, which is torate, and when I realised that, I was at a tASSEMBLY.]

loss to understand the creation of the new M-%r.PICKERING: The boa, member should electorate of Plantagenet. know, seeing that his electorate is giving The Minister -for Works: Is not the Sussex 1,123 voters towards its establishmnent. electorate duly representative of the people Mr. Marshall: It is a suburb of Katanning who are there? 11oW. Mr. PICKERING: Is there any electorate M.%r.PICKERUING: Perhaps the Commis- sioners were influenced in establishing the not duly representative of the people there? Plantagenet electorate not knDow that was the point at issue. because they thought I did Kcnrlenup had a number of people there. I understood the Commissioners were required to haveo regard for community of interests and Hon. P. Collier: Two hundred of them have close proximity to railways. When we find left during the last two or three mouths& Mr. PICKERIENG: the area that has been tacked on to thle far That is so. south-eastern corner of Sussex adjacent to the Hon. P. Collier: They are going every Penmberton railway, I claim that no considera- dlay. tion has been given to community of interests Mr. PICKERING: We also know, accord; nor yet to close proximity to railways. It iug to a statemeat in the ''West Australian" would have been possible to establish a new that the Premier has received from the Ken- electorate which would have taken in the denup representatives in Melbourne an offer timber industry in Nelson and Sussex and the that staggered him. Bfe would not disclose Junking industry of Greenbushos. That would what the offer was, bnt :fronm what the "'West have given an electorate with community of Australian'' stated, I concluded the Premier was interests, although I admit that the seat flabbergasted. If that is so, there is would have been a Labour one. lttla hope of a solution of the Kendenop is why it was not piroblenm. If it is not settled soon, there will Hon. P. Collier: That he acute distress there. In that event also established. there will he no justification for Mr. PICKERING: That may have been the establishing a now electorate in that part of the State. unless there point; I cannot read it otherwise, These facts should have been common know- was a desire on the part of thle Government ledge to thle Commissioners or to the interests of Chief to hand ever the agricultural Electoral Officer at least. Sussex to someone else. Hon. IV. C. Angwin: It is more likely to We had The Premier-. The Government! be within the knowledge of the Surveyor nothing to do with it. General. Mr. PICICEEXNG: Well, I will say the Mr. PICKERING: I do not know. So far Commissioners~ as thle rolls and the possibility of maintaining Mr. Lutey: Under the whip. the number onl the rolls are concerned, the Tile Premier: I did not use any whip. Chief Electoral Officer should have known Mr. Willek: But you gave away taxation mioro about it. to the extent of £100,000. Hfon. W. C. Angwin: He would net know as Mr. SPEAKER: Order! much as the Surveyor General about people Mr. PICKERING: It is iateresting to read leaving the district.- the figures dealing with the different elec- Mr. PICKER [NO: As the Keadenup estate torates. NYelson. had 953 above thle quota, as had nothing to do with the Government, who disclosed by the 1923 enrolment. The Com- were not responsible-the surveying was done missioners took frein that electorate 303 votes at the expense of the Kendenup company and and gave them to Katanning. What could the subdividing and other works were done have been behind the Commissioners' minds b% thle Kendenup people and not by the (1ov- in taking voters from Nelson and placing ernnment-L do not Rs how the Surveyor Gen- them in the Katanning electorate, which ex- eral should haVe anly particular knowledIge of tended its boundaries to within eight miles of Kendenup conditions. The Chief Electoral Bridgetown, alienating portion of the Nelsen Officer should have been familiar with the electorate, which has always been included? position and known how the future would Surely the sole idea must have been to build probably affect enrolmients. I want it borne up the Plantagenet electorate in the Great in mind that we are faced with an increase in Southern. In the Katanniug district the Comn- piopuLlation in the South-West. We have every nisioners took 192 voters from the Wagin reason to believe that such will be thle ease, electorate but gave 1,123 to Plantagenet. because if the group settlements prove thle There is a continua] juggling of figures to success every hon. member desires them to bolster up and make the electorate of Plan- be, the present population must 1)emore than tagenet. That is the only conclusion I can nmaintained. On the other hland, the popula- draw from the report. In view of the figures tion in Plantagenet must be a diminishing disclosed, an electorate could have been es- factor. tablished in the South-West Province that The Minister for Mines: Nonsense! would have confirmed the community of inter- --ir. PICKERING: The Minister can put ests in the Nelson electorate, making it purely forward his statement of the position when agricultural, and giving another seat to Lab- his opportuniity comes. It is interesting to our with mining and timber interests. For view thle position of some electorates. I some reason or other the Commissioners am in accord with the remarks of the member dragged electorates over to Plantagenet. for Willinms-Narrogin (Mr. Johnston) when M-%r.A. Thomson: Where is Plantagenet? he said that it would have been better to re- [4 SEPTEUSEB, 1923,155 559 adjust the boundaries of some of the Great 'Mr. PICKERING: Unfortanately I had to Southern electorates, such ais Beverley, Pin- go there to-day and I was told there were iretly and so on, and create a new electorate 32,000 in Karrakatta. I do not know how we eaist7 of time Greni Southern raqilwav. That can reconcile that with this quota would have been a Fiir adjustment because, if M~r, SPEAKER: Order! I do not think we take such elec-torates as Be-eriey and Pin- that has anything to do with the Bill. gelly, We Lfind they are considerably below 'Mr. PICKERING: The constituenty of their quota to-day. Surely it should not be Kairrakutta is mentioned in the Bill. How- the intention in the Redistribntioa of Seats ever, Kairrakatta has only 4,831 live electqrs. Bill to maintain electorates already eongiiler- Sit. ITairthorn is below the quota by 811, ably helow their quota. The Pingelly elec- whlereas Karrakatta has a shortage of 75 2 . So torate is 391 below the quota and Wagin 207 there are in the metropolitan area no fewer bielow, Wchile -Beverlcy is mnus M0. It would titan six seats helon- the quota. In the South- hav e been possible to arnalgonuate some of these West curlier there nrc si-x seats aggregvating electorates a.nd] establish ai new one east of the 7,5041 aihuve the quota. Surely if an extra seat Greait Southern railway. Corning to the muetro- hail to lie given, it. should haLve been given to liolitan area, T wish to draw attention to the that part of the State, nut to the metropoli- fai-t that the Premier told us it was not the tan area. I have been waiting to hear nrgu- intention to increas;e the number of mretrapoli- mnts from mnetIropiolitaun members. tain seats by more tihan two. lion1. W. C. Augwin:; I believe in giving The Premnier: Onl the numbers before mo votes to mcii anid womeon. tot to sheep. then, that. was so. Mir. PIC'Kl'RiNG: Onl that principle von Mr. PICKER ING What, do we findf would require to have your quota increased. Hlon. P. Collier: On a lower quota they Mr. Teesdale: They have no sheep down have been increased by three. tt~ere. they are all goats. lion. U%.C. Angwin: No, tile goats are in The Premtier: That is wrong. the North-West. lion. P. Collier: There are 000 fewer. I SMr. PICKERI-NG: I cannot speak authonri- will quote the Premier's own figures. Mr. PICKERING: When I can get in an The 'Minister for 'Mines:, Hear, bear! interjection, I will proceed. Mr. PICKERING: If it conies to that, I The Premier: I apologise. can speak with just as mutch authority as can Mr. PICKERING: In the metropolitan ltmo 4inist en. However, I can not speak area. we find that three additional seats are with authority on the community of interests provided. The quotas set out ill the report in the metropolitan area. We have had from show that Freman tie will have .5,092 electors. the mtember for East Perth to-night aatoaind- aind North-EFast Fremantle 4,976. imtg statements, particularly as to the distances Hon. W. C. Asgw~in: Do you know that I to be traversed in I rani and train. In point found ninny hundreds off the roll in my ele&- of fact, 20 nmiles would cover the whole lot. torate? StIetrqploiitan members say nothing about dis- Mr. PICIKERING: There is so msuch talk tnces in the country. I am) at a loss to under- going on, 'Mr. Speaker, that it is very hiard Stand where in the metropolitan area ool- for me to protced. r am trying to show my munity of interests conies in. It seems to me reasons for opposing sonic aspects of the Sill, the feature there is political differences, not and it is difficult to proceed with this interrup- comuiity of interests. The interests of the tion. mtetropolitan area are very much on all fours. Mr. Corboy: They are ashamed of their We have not in the metropolis divergence measure. of interests such as4 we find outback, Mr. PICKERING: This seems to hurt the in electorates like the Murchisoa, so ably member for North-East Freniantle (Hon. dealt with by the member for Mt. W. C. Angwiu). Magnet (Hon. St. P. Trov), wbcre peo- Ron, W. C. Angwin: -Not at all. ple airc separated by enormous distances, yet have only Ohc representative in the Mr. PICKERINGO: There is nothing per- Assentbly, whil9t; we are doing our utmost to sonal in the matter at all. I em merely corn- crowd iti additional representatives of the pauring rte proposed approximate enrolmntns. metropolitan area. I am at a loss to undar- Hfon. IV. C. Augwin: I merely interjected stwnd the reasoning behind it. I take strong that I had found 1,140 rnmes off the roll in exception to the giving of an additional -teat may constituency. to themetctropolitan area. After carefully con- Mr. PICKER ENG: Leedlervillc is to hare sidering the report of the Commissioners ad 4,726 voters, anil South Fremuentlo 5,107. analysing the tables, I can only conclude there TF.e~e figures are considerabl y below the quotai has~ I-ecul a juggrIlng of figulres to fiX Up ane andI yet the (ouiniisi-ioncrs providle for the es- electorate. tamblisliment of three new electorates-MAay- The 'Minister for Works: That is a reflec- lands. with 5,911 olectors, Haithorn with lion onl the ('omoissioners. 1,772, anti Eurrakatta with 4,0431. Again SMr. PICKERING: I cannot help that. -I these are below rthe quota. cannot see any other explanation. Perhaps Iloti. P. Collier: l(arrakntta. is ever in- the Premier, When he replies, will give us the -ic-asiug. upeik isv c--ek. information he failed to give either when SMr. 'Marshiall : We are all !tearin~r tiler?,. placing the Commissioners' report on the Mr. SPEAX{F11: Order! Table or when moving the second reading of 560 560ASSEMBLY.]

the Bill. The one thing he told us was that Mr. PICKERING,0 Northam, wvefind, had this is a -non-party measure. Therefore I am 2,920 electors, the Dumber above the quota at liberty to dleal with the Bill on non-party being 14. The Commissioners added 10 from lines. I am satisfied that it does not give Toodyny- and transferred five to Avon, thus effect to the il1 of the House. It was never leaving North-anm with 2,925, a very nice posi- intended by the House that the representa- tion for thle Premier. tion should be as recommended in the Coin- Hon, P. Collier: No loss of old friends. miissioners' report. The Commissioners have Mr. PICKERING: No, quite a happy not given consideration to community of in- position for the Premier, who, however, re- terests, have not called a tittle of evidence proves me because I object to disturbance of to support their findings. Who arc they that community of interests in Sussex. It was they should know everything? I concede clearly set forth in the instructions to the that the Chief Justice knows all about his Conmmission that they should not disturb com- business, and that thle Surveyor General imunity of interests. After careful considera- knows everything concerning his department. tion and believing, as I dto, it is necessary But this is not their business. It is on the we should have a redistribution of seats, I evidence that a Royal Commission should ant not going to (-ommit myself to a Bill'such form their decision. This Royal Commission as this. If the Commissioners have so under- should have secured every available piece of rated the intelligence of hon. miembers as to evidence before bringing in this report. What expect them to accept a hybrid, mnongrel sort could the Rloyal Commission have thought of of thing like this, they have made a great the intelligence of this House when they put mistake. Wha-t the Premier should do is to up this report? They must have thought we nwithdraw the Bill and refer it back to the ivere a lot of fools, who would accept the Commissioners with a request that they make thing without, question. An analysis of these a better Bill of it. I do not think the Pre- figures fails to find in them any intelligent nrier can expect to carry this Bill. interpretation of the directions given to the The Minister 'for Mines: It is a heavy Commission, any evidence to show that the load. Commissioners studied community of inter- Mr. PICK IfRING : It is indeed. I trust ests. The Commissioners found there was no I have established the fact that my electorate communaity of interests between Collie and has been treated unjustly and that there has Forrest and environing electorates, and to not been en. observance of the instructions prove tbat there was not any they shoved into which the House imposed on the (Jomtmis- my electorate 616 electors of Collie. It was sionem-s. Having come to that conclusion, I an aggravation of the mistake that they put cannot support the Bill. into my electorate a part that really belongs to Collie. There is true comnnunity of in- Mr. WILLCOCK (Geraldton) 18.10] : Thle terests between Collie and Forrest, which the Premier has said nothing in justification of Commissioners could have adjusted. Instead the Bill, Nothing can be said in its justifi- of adjusting it, they left Forrest with a de- cation. It is enrious that a Bill for a redis- ficiency of 338 electors. Why did they not tribution of seats, which generally provokes say, "Here is conmnunity of interests, here lix-ergenil Opinioiks. should on this occasion is an outstanding feature."' Instead of that, have nothing said in favour of it. It is the they say- duty of the Government to let the people The w-ork of redistribution and forma- know what there mny be to commend in the tion of two new districts in this area pre- Bill. T am not going to criticise the Com- sented mtore difficulties than in any of the mission, hut it is up to the Government to other areas, mainly due to the fact that the justify the conclusions arrived at by thle two existing districts of Collie and Forrest Comimissionters. In the Bill are to be found are bounded on every side byy districts with endless points for criticism, but I do not -which they have little or no community of find adhered to in it one thing definitely lire. interests. scribedi in the Act of last session- Instead of adjusting the difference there, The Premnier: Oh. yes, there is. You are they go and disturb the community of inter- quite wrong. ests in my electorate. The position is scan- 'Mr. WTLLCOCK: The principles definitely dalous. I do not understand how any mem- laid d]own to be followed were community of ber can accept the report. interests, means of communication and dis- The Premier: If the boundaries of Sussex tance front the capital. In almost every in- are amended it will be all right. stance those principles have been disregarded. Mr. PICKERING: I have refrained from Hion. P. Collier: Absolutely. referring to the Premier's electorate. I think The Premier: Von are not justified in say- bon. members will absolve me of any personal ing that. aninmus. Where is there another member Ifr. WILLCOCK: Consider the outback whose interests have been treated so kindly mining areas. Take the furthest from the as those of the hon. member for Northam? seat of government, with the poorest means The Minister for Works : Where is of communication, yet with the greatest pro- Northern? portion of electors. That is the 'Murchison. Mr. PICKERING: It is very well repre- Mtuch the same may be said of agricultural sented. electorates. Yet 303 voters have been taken The Minister for Works:- Hfear, hear' out of the Murchison1 and placed in Green- [4 Szpnnn, 1923.] 5616 ough. With those 303 voters, and the pre- Mr. WILLCOOK: It is peopled nearly as scribed 50 per cent. added, the outer districts well nis any portion of the Gascoyne elector- would have had sofficient to entitle them to ate. fit-c seats. They are not all goldieids; tak- Mr. Tpisfiale: Oh, look at the map!l It tug into account their community of interests has 1,465 electors in four ;owns rwith Japan- some of theta are as much pastoral as min- ese washing and all sorts of comforts. ing. Away up onl the Sandiford River, 600 Mr. WILLCOCK: The Bill does not affect or 700 miles from Perth, a district has been me personally, but what is more important put into an agricultural constituencyF so as than mny personal feelings are the feelings of to make the quota of the Murchison just low illy conistituents. After al, one is here to culoulil to eiye it one seat instead of two. represent, not himself, hut his constituents. Sandford River is 60 miles from Cue, the The Premier: It is a matter of represent- nearest railway station. Yet these places are ing the State. taken front an outback constituency to bring .Mr. WTLL COCK: Anyhow, I cannot be the Murchison district low enough that it charged wvith speaking front motives of per- may have only one seat instead of two seats. sonal interest or bias. If conununity of interest had been thor- Capt. Carter: And it it; a noni-party oughly considered, the 20 per cent, should 11icasure. have been added and those stations extending '.%r. WlhLCOCK: The Premier was pre- right down to Mullewa, should have been in- pared to make the Licensing Bill a non-party eluded in the area so that the Murchison dis- measure, though it meant a loss of £40,000 trict would have had two seats. The proposed or £650,000 revenue to the State. He was Munrchisoa district is an absolute scandal; it prepared to make the Hospitals Bill a non- is a blot on the Bill. party measure, and that meant a loss of an- Mr. Munsie: It is a blot on this redistribu- other £50,000 to the State. tion of seats. The Premier: Licensing Bills are always Mr. WXVLLCCCK: Ye;, and it seems as if non-party measures. it were done deliberately. There is nothing Mr. WVILLCOCiC: And there are stronger to justify it. reasons why a Redistribution of Seats Bill Mr. Marshall: The framers miy have a should be a non-party measure. lot of faith in the members who represent The Premier: This is a non-party measure. the Murchison. 'Mr. WILLOOCK: When the Licensing and IMr. WIhLGOOK: While the Murchison Hospitals Bills were before the House last country has had three representatives, a lot session, the Premier was not particular how of the Government utili ties have been taken his supporters voted, although those mecasures away from it. I1 do not know what will hap- involved the State in a loss amounting to pea if it has only one member. £1 00,000, but ce-cry supporter of the Govera- The Premier: You had better fight hard in t was whipped-up to vote for the Electoral for Ceraldton, where you have only one mem- Districts Bill last year. ber. The Premier:. A perfectly good measure Mr. WTLLCOGK: No one can accuse me of it was, too. personal bias; my district is little affected. Mr. WRLCOCK:- Last year I voiced my The Mfinister for Mines:. Then why charge opposition to the Electoral Districts Bill. Bad the Premier with. bias? as that measure was, the report of the Com- Mfr. WILC'OCK: I am not charging the missioners has mtade the Act the laughing Premier;, I am speaking of the ignorance dis- stock of tha country. Anyone who seriously played by the Coirumissiogers in drawing up studies the instructions in the Electoral Dis- these foolish houndaries. If they think we tricts Act and the report of the Commis- sioners hased upon the Act can come to only are going to swallow their proposals--well, it is an insult to the intelligence of members. one conclusion, namvely, that they have flag- rantly disregarded the instructions. Hon. P. Collier: They must think us a lot The Premier: No, they have not. of political duds. Mr. W~ILCOCK: They have. Mr. WivLLOOCK: We would deserve to be The Premier: Show mae where they have considered political duds if we allowed an disregarded the instructions. outrage of this description and permitted '.%r. WILLOOCK: I have cited the Mur- them to dictate to us in this way. ehisen district as an instance. The Commis- The Mlinister for Works: You cannot call sioners were instructed to consider distance it dictating alter they haveL been ordered by from the capital in settling the quota, blur- Act of Parliament to carry out this duty. ehison is the farthest removed from the capi- M r. Mfunsie: If they had done that, it tali yet it has 400 more electors than Leo- would be all right. nora, 500 more than Kanowna, and 600 more Mr. WILLCOOK: '!he trouble is that they than Coolgardie. Now take the agricultural have not been guided by the considerations constituencies. In framing a report of this specified in the Act. Murchison, the district description, we expect the Commissioners to farthest out and extending right away to the exercise common sense. They are men hold- South Australian border, has 2,200 electors. ing high positions; they are men of intelli- The Premier: It is aot peopled out to the gence. I do not deny that they possess in- South Australian border. telligence, but they certainly have not used it. jASSEMBLY -j

The Premier: They wsill feel much ob- Mr. XVILaLCOCX: We cannot lay claim, aa liged to you for that can the metropolitan area, to having 50 per Mr WILLOOCIC: I am not speaking de- cent. of the population of the State doing rogatoridy of themn, but 1 contend that tbey practically nothing but distributing and have not used their intelligence. The second other parasitical occupations for the lpro- set of factors specified in the Act was comn- dlucers of thme country. That is a disgrace to munnity of interest, means of communication the State. and distance from the capital. The Commis- Mr. Lathamm: There is a sent for yen onl sioners when fixing the new boundaries this side of the Rouse. should have considered the possibility or Mr. 'WIhLCOCK: I havt- voiced similar probability of rise and fall in population. Oplinions every timeI I h'ave had an oppor- As the member for East Perth (Mr. Hughes) tuniity-. pointed out with regard to the metropolitan Capt. Carter: I trembfle for yen. constituencies, places likely to increase in The Minister for Mines: An enginernan in pop)ulation should be given a lower quota Perth mnight prefer to he in (ieraldton, but than the closely settled districts. lie Cannot helpi his being inl Perth. Cant. Carter: If that were logically fol- Hfon. IV. C. Angwin: And if you include lowed out, the metropolitan area would have the enginemen, you maust include the lot. at least five more seats. Mr. WViLLCOCK: I should like to continu Hon. W. C. Angwia: And the metropolitan this discuissioni, but I realise it is a digres- area should have themn. .In that area are most sion from the Bill. Regamrdimg the agricul- or the people who pay most of the taxes, tural constituencies, the Commissioners should and yet they have very smnall representation. have shown common sense and considered thme Mr. WILLOOCK: Andi they are making places likely to increase or decrease in popu- their money out of other people who are do- lation, and set the quota accord ingly. Yet ing the work. places near to Perth and old established Hon. W. C. Angwin: They are doing work, places which, instead of increasing, are de- just as much as are people in the country. creasing in poplationl, Are to have fewer elec- Mr. WILLOOCK: Perth and F'remantle tors than other places further out. Piagelly are the greatest cities of parasites-- 100 miles or so from Perth, is to have 2,500: Ron. W. C. Angwin: You say that Aa Beverley, another old( established district yet you represent Geraldtonl where the land is held up and where no one Mr. WLLLCOOK: The industries that oc- can get Any new land-though the Premier cupy the people of the metropolitan area are says it is being used productively, that is a less industrial than those of any capital city matter for argument-Beverley is to have in the Commonwealth. 2,500. The Premier: There are fewer industries. Mr. Broun interjected. Ifr. WILLOOCK: I. admit that. I do not Mr. WILLOOCK: There is not likely to carry too many compliments or bouquets io be any increase of population in Beverley. At my bag to throw at the people of the mnetro- any rate, there has biena no increase in the politan area. They are the greatest act of last 10 years. Forrest, practically within a parasites in the Commonwealthi as regards stone's throw of Perth, is to have 2,500; the nature of their occupations. I say noth- Moore, which is next to the metropolitan ing against thenm individually, but it is a fact aeis to have 2,900; Northamn, which is that they arc not engaged in productive or within 40 or 50 miles of Perth, is to have industrial occupations. 2,900. These are agricultural seats surround- 'Mr. Teesdiale:- You -yonrself represent ing Perth. On the outer fringe of these, seats, sonic of them. Geraldton, with its fast ex- where there shonldebe a smaller number of press trains is alniost a suburb of Perth. electors, Accordiog to the principles laid down in the Electoral Districts Act, we M;%r.WILLOIOCK: If the hon. member find Katanning, situated at almost the chooses to be foolish, hie may be. southern end of Mr. Teesdale: I have to go 600 miles from the State, requiring the coast to see some of my constituents and 3,090( electors. Bunbury. which is further an-ay tham Forrest, ad the other five or six I have not A. train to travel in, either. seats I mentionmed, is to have 3,400; Collie Mr. WELLOOCK: But the hon. member si milarl y situated, is to have 3,300; Nelson, can hardly call a place situated 300 niies right at the bottom end of the State, 3,300; from Perth a suburb of the city. However, Williams-Narrogia, also outside the adjacent I was discussing the occupations of the peo- districts I enumerated, 31,200, And York, which ple in the metropolitan area as compared with includes Bruce Roek And 'Narambeen-the the occupations of residents of ether Austra- latter T suppose is the agricultural district liaa capitals. Here there are fewer people farthest distant fromn Perth by- rail- employed in ltegitiimate iinstry than else- Mr. Latham: It is 2SJ miles, and pays the where. highest freight of any place on wheat. Honl. WV.C. Aogwin: What more haive you Mr. WkVThI.COC'K: The railway is the only in tieraldton? Yon have a flour mill-- cominunication it has and the quota there re- Mr. Teesdale: And a brewery. quired is 3,16S. The places far removed fromn Mr. WI IaLCOCK: A good brewery, too. the capital and &th poor mneans of communi- The Mtinister for M;%ines: I think you had Cation, hav-e a considerably greater number of better shift the capital to Alhany. electors than the districts in the immmeiate [4 SEPTEUM, 1923]53 563

vicinity Of Perth. if the Premier can con- Bill %%ill be passed, but it will constitute an- vince us that the Commnissioners have carried other outrage upon an unsuspecting public. out their iustructioas-viell, I shall not say The people have had confideace in the Com- kahat I inttendued to. The report is an insult missioners, but a Bill of this kind can be des- to our- intelligence. 'Not one of the prlneipit:3 erii~ed only as an outrage (ia public decency. laid 'Iowa in the Act has been carried out to I will vote against it. the letter. Were it otherwise, I should not The Premier: Y7ou are sure of that? have so munch to say against the Conunission; Mr. WILLCOCK: I am certain. It is an, all the efforts in%opposition to the proposed redistribution would then be directed against out rage. the ll. The Aet which laid down the pro- Hon, P. COLLIER (Boulder) [8.35): One vedutre to guide the Commissioners in carrying is4 compelled, after an impartial examination out their duties has been flagrantly violated. of There is no doubt whatever of that. The the Bill and the electoral boundaries laid abst-itee of support from umembers opposite down, to draw the conclusion that one must to thi9 side of the House shows they must be either impugn the good faith of the members satisfied with the Bill, of the Commission, or express utter contempt for their competence. I prefer to take the Mr. Teesdale: We are all chloroformned. latter course. Every blue line on the map, 'Mr. WILLOOCK: They have gone to sleep with the exception perhaps of the goldfields over the whole business. central district, proves that macmbere of the Mr. MNunsie: The primary producers are Conmmnission did not understand their work. satisfied with it. They have instructed their members. Mlr. Willcock: Or the Electoral Districts Act. Mir. WltU200K: The Murchison is the I chief blot on the Bill. Everything that could Hon. P. COLLIER- wish to deal with be d]one to rob this constituency ot two repre- the culpability of the Government in appoint- sentatives has been done. People have been ing the Commission to carry out this work transferred out of it to other constituencies. without first of all preparing a satisfactory and equitable basis on which to operate. The MKinister for Agriculture: I do not -The very genesis of the Act of last year, pro- wvant at lot that I have got. viding for the redistribution of the boun- Mr. WILLUOCK: It is very unfortunate daries of electorates, was an np-to-date roll. front the Minister's standpoint that he should H-ow could the Government ask men to re- have people transferred from Magnet, for they arrange the boundaries along certain lines, will not do him any good. I do not suggest giving certain quotas to various districts, the Conmmissioners have done this on purpose, without taking steps to see that a reasonably but they have not shown commuon sense or dlue regard for the instructions contained in the up-to-date roll was provided for them? It Electoral Districts Act. The 3turUchison is one is inevitable that, after the work is done and of the oldest gold-mining districts in the State, when the roll is prepared for the election but it has not been properly prospected by following, there will be no end of anomalies, any means. No sooner have prospectors gone which are not new apparent, and which could to one part of it than they have gone off to nt be avoided by thme Comnuission. J am sur- somec other part., Anything can happen in a prised the Government did not take steps to district like the Mfurchison to cause the popn- get the roll brought reasonably up-to-date. lation to go up enormously. If the Govern- The matter was brought before the Premier ment had been alive to their responsibilities in after the close of lnst session, and be was encouraging production, the Murebison would urged, I think, to take steps in that direc- not be where it is to-day, so tar as its repre- tion. Thme Government were not asked to sentation in Parliament is concerned. That undertake any considerable expenditure of district contains some of the best pastoral public funds in doing this. The work of en- land in the State, and yet no more than 300 rolment could haive been carried out all over or 400 people are engaged in the pastoral in- the State2 with the exception of the North- dustry where there should be 3,000 or 4,000. West and the metropolitan area, by members One cannot say as much as one would like to of the police force witbout the work costing on this Bill. I have always endeavoured to an%additional pound. There are numbers of steer clear of imaput-ations against anyone, but policemen in Kalgoorlie and Boulder who if one wanted to impute motives in this case, have to be kept there because of the possi- one could find ample opportunity for doing so. bihity of something happening. Mlembers of Thme Bill violates the principles of the Elec- the constabulary admit that they have abso- toral Districts Act in almost every particular. lutely nothing to do and are unable to occupy Hardly a principle of that Act has been ad- their time fromt week-end to week-end. In hered to, and in the majority of instances the that centre a house-to-house canvass could Commissioners have strayed as far away fromt have been car-ried out by members of the them as possible. The Bill is an outrage. police force in one week at no cost to the The Prenmier: You ought to show where it public funds. This work could also have has been departed fromt. been done in most of the outbackr mining Mr. WILLCOC{: Good Lord, as if I had district;, and in the agricultural areas as aot been doing so for the last half hour! The -vell. Iii the metropolitan aren it would have Premier is evidently not open to convition. r been necessary to engage men for the pur- suppose the, whip has been cracked andi the pose, and to have thus incurred a little ex- 564 564[ASSEMBL IX] penditure. The Government, however, made sure we have not lost more than a few hun- no move in this direction. dred people at the most. By a process of The Premier: You are quite wrong. striking names off the roDl we nowv have the Hon. P. COLLIER: They did nothing to arrangement of quotas set forth in this Bill. prepare a sound basis except what might have In the mining districts the figures given in 2 been done by the Electoral Office. December were SS 5J and in May 7,515, or The Premier: There is compulsory enrol- a decrease in all those outback districts of ment. 1,335, There again it looks as if activity JHon. P. COLLIER: The Act has never had been displayed ii striking gold- been enforced, because the Government have fields people off the rolls. Although never issued any orders for prosecutions. we know that milling generally has The Premier: Have we not? been very dull in the outback districts, 11on. P. COLLIER: What is the use of it we know also that the tendency to fall when we know there are thousands of people off took place a year or two ago, and that off the roll in every district, and that those dluring the present year, rather than a de- in charge of the admiinistration of the Act crease, there has been a revival in more than have taken no action? one of the oldl districts, with consequent in- The Premier: Yes, we have. creases in the population. The total figure lon. P. COLLIER: Compulsory enrolment given us for the State in December was is a dead letter. When was the last prosecu- 1731,661, but in May the total was 172,922, exclusive of the four North-_West seats, On tion? the Government's own The Premier:- I could tell you. official figures, the total enrolment at the 24th 'May for this Hion. P. COLLIER: 'When has any member State was 4,374 less than in December. When read of any prosecution by the State? speaking a few weeks ago on the Address-in- Mr. Willeock: A man was lined in York reply, I dealt with the question of arrivals about ]2 months ago. and departures in this State; and the Pre- Hon. P. COLLIER: A decent roll cannot mnier then refused absolutely to believe that be obtained without a 1house-to-house canvass. the arrivals and departures were as stated in This has been the position during the last the official publication. But here, on the 20 years. Whatever Government has been official roll, he shows a decrease of 4,374 in in power, no steps have been taken to secure the space of a few months, notwithstanding a revised roll except prior to a general elec- that people have been coming in all the time. tion. If it is necessary to do this prior to I know, of course, that the new arrivals wrould the election, it is doubly necessary that it not be qualified; but all those who came in should be done in order that the Commis- last year would have been qualified month by sioners might have the latest roll on which month, according to the time they bad been to act. When the roll is made up in a few in the State. Yet we are asked to believe months time it will be found that many of tbe that the State, Wvhich has been spending Bill will have electorates provided in this millions of pounds in order to enflourage im- their quotas exceeded by niany thousands. migration, a State which has embarked upon The Premier: That cannot be. a greater policy of inmuigration than any Ron. P. COLLIER: We are told that the other State of the Commonwealth, has a de- population has been declining during the past creasing adult population lnonth by month two years. In the return presented to the and year by year. That is the state of things House by the Premier last December, the en- according to the electoral rolls. I will make rolment at that date was given. We also a further coumparison. We have official have the enrolment as on the 24th May on figures supplied to us by the Chief Electoral which the Commissioners operated. Accord- Officer when the Electoral Districts Act was ing to the official, figures given to the House before Pnrliamnlet last Year. They prove in December, the enrolment for the metro- that not only has the p;opulation, according politan area was 84,694. According to the roll to the rolls, flecrenseri sincee last December, onl which the Commissioners worked, four but that the population has been decreasing mouths older, the enrolment was 83,748, a re- year by year. I venture to say that the roll duction of 946. We are, therefore, asked to of December was entirely out of date. There beclieve that the population of the metropoli- would p~robr,lly be tens of thousands of tan area fell in four months to the extent of people in the State who u-ore entitled to en- 916 persons. The enrolment for the agri- rolment, bet who n-rcr not on the roll ac- cultural districts was stated in December to cording to the December figures, Even tak- be 66,820, and on the 24th May 66,838, an ing the metropolitan area, accordinig to the ::*crease in the four months of only 18. These census figures of Alpril, 1921, that area had areas now coinprise 23 seats. When we come an adult population of 90,000. Two years to the goldfields central district, it is clear later, in Mfay, 1923, the electoral rolls, upon that somecone has shown a considerable amount wlhich these boundaries ate drawn, show an of activity. The figures in December were adult piopulation of 83,000. We arc asked to 13,294, and in 'May, 11,184, or a decrease of believe that the population of the metropoli- 2,l11. Will anyone who knows the goldfields tan area, in two years, from 1921 to 3923, say that the adult population of the gold- has fallen by no less than 7,000 people. Our fields central area, comprising four seats, has common sense tells tie that it is not so. Night decreased hy 2,111 in four months? I am after night here have we heard of the sear- [4 Su-n a, 1923.]68 565

city of housing accommodation in the metro- The Premier: We did. politan area, and of building activities all Hon. P. COLLIER: Only striking off. A&11 over that area for the past year or two to the electoral offic-ers were most active in sttih an extent that there are hundreds nf s'triking off namnes. One thousand namnes houies waiting to be built, but unable to be haove been struck oX the roll in my district built owing to the wrant of artisans. And alone since 3l.irch, 1921. Inevitably, even yet we are asked to believe that the total if these boundaries were drawn nish absolute population ina two years, according to the perfection, the Bill would1 stilt represent in- censuis figures, has fallen by 7,000. In the equality because the rolls were entirely out agrivultural districts the census figures of of date; and that is a defect which, as I April, 1M2, gave a total of 67,889. The have shown, could have been remedied with- electoral roll of 'May, 192.3, gave a popula- nut any expense to the State. Turning now tion of 616.8211, or a lo9 of 1, 069. to the Bill itself, I say that the statements lr. Tadoerwood: Tat works out evenly all of the member for East Perth (Mr. Hughes) over the State. aind of the member for Sussex (Mr: Picker- Hop. P, COLLIER: The part of this ing) and Others as to the absurd nature of State in which the greatest activity line bke the boundaries have been proved right Up to shown, upon which the energ-ivs of Parlia. the, hilt. nit-t and of publdie policy have been directed, The Premier: I think the member for East is the agricultural area. Our niigrauts are Perth provedl the case both ways, He was sent there. In those agricultural districts mosilo 'Lical. develepnient work has been going full spee'd Mr. ('orioy : Get uip and prove lie was aheaLd fur tihe loast two or three years. And illogical. yet. comparing the census figures of 192 1 Thle Premier: I an not allowed to. witht the electoral figures of 19.23~, we have 'Mr. Corboy: Youi can do it n-hen reply- an actual loss of over 1,0(10 in the adult ilig. population of those districts. Can any The Premier: I will, too. member believe that to be true? I ay be told that it conies to a question %%hichi is Non, P. COLLIER: I repeat that as re- more likely to be correct-the electoral roll gards the metropolitan area the rolls for or the enAsus figures. We knjow perfectly 'May show a. decrease of 4,374 as against the well that the census figures are more likely rolls used by the Premier in December. Ex- to be correct. In fact, the census figures are cept as regards the goldflelds central district, likely to be below the actual population, be- the Commissioners have not worked in con- cause whilst it is conceivable tMat a number formity with the rules laid down for them. of persons would be missed by the census Take the metropolitan districts. The Com- papers, it is not conceivable that fictitious missioners were asked to observe the follow- census papers, representing imaginary per- ing points: community of interest, means of sn, would] lie put in. So the logical deduc- conlntmnieation and distance fromt the capital, tion is that even the census figures are beloW physical featuresi existing boundaries of dis- the actnal population. And the figures for tricts. Not one of those points cropped up the goldfields show an even greater discrep- at alt in the orrangement. of the boundaries ancy than those for the agricultural districts. of the Matropolitrn area. Take the first point, Those are two glaring instances, proving that comnmuinity of interest. There are no diverse the rolls are hopelessly out of date. Deal- interests in the metropolitan -area. There ing a few weeks ago with the question of ex- are the diverse views of individuals on mnany cess of arrrivnls over departures, I quoted questions, bult that diversity of opinion is prob- the census figures; but the Premier stoutly ably distributed about equally over the whole contended that the census figures were not of the metropoliann area. Therefore it was correct, and that those who were charged with entirely unnecessary to have regard for the the collection of census figures in Western qulestionl Of conimunity of interest. As to Australia would naturally miss a proportion mens of communication and distance from of our scattered population. To-day the the capita], they are considerations which do Premier contends that the actual population not enter into the question when boundaries of this State is considerably in excess of the for the metropolitan area are being draw-n. figures shown by the census returns. Yet our All these district are at the seat of govern- electoral rolls show that the nuiit-rs. in our mnent, and] a. difference of a mile or two here metropolitan a(rea and our agricultural dis- or there does not count. The means of comt- tricts have decreased] by some 6.00 people. munication arc about equal. Most of die I say that is not t-orrect. It is apparent that mietropolitan electoral districts are in the the rolls have been hopeleszly out of date: eainital. and the suburban districts can be and I say the Government have been culpable reached by tram or train. The question of in that no attenmpt has been made to prepare means of commu~nicat ion and distance from up-toi-date rolls. the capital therefore does not arise at all in The Premier: You cannot get a perfect regard to the metropolitan area. Neit'her roll. mines. the third point arise, as to physical Hon. P. COLLIER: One might give that features. Tile physical features are all simi- comfortable -assurance after making every lar throughout the metropolitan area. Again, reasonable effort to prepare a perfect roll. the existing boundaries are not to apply. But nay complaint against the Government is Raving regard to those facts, what would be that thiey dlid nothiag at all. the course taken by any Commissioners who 566 566ASSEMBLY.j

knew their work? They would say, ''Here is Coininissioners to carry out the fixing the metropolitan area, and here is the elec- of the boundaries, but that an office toral roll. Let us ascertain the quota." boy could do it. To-day I repeat, not- They find that to be 5,300. Then they Bet withstanding the personnel of the Com- to work to delimit the 15 Beaats to which they mission, that any decent offie boy consider the metropolitan area entitled under with or-dinary common sense could have done the figures. They proceed to draw the boun- a better Job tihan these people. If memrbers daries in such a way as to give, as nearly as turn to thle agricultural districts, they will find possible, an equal number of electors in each the same thing. The figures quoted by the seat, not to ithiii a hundred or two, but to muynber for Sussex (ML~r.Pickering) disclosed within a reasonable number. None of these the position. He slhowed that thle Coinmis- paints arise in connection with the metropoli- sioners hadl allotted 2,472 voters to the Plan- ton constituencies, so that no difficulty should tagenet electorate or 300 fewer than to the have been experienced. The Commissioners Sussex electorate. As the hon. mnenmber pointed should have stairted from South Fremantle out, if a new seat had to be provided, it and fixed the 15 seats between there aind should have been in the South-West. Guildford, and each one should have appr-oxi- Tile 'Minister for M,%ines: You cannot com- mated within a hundred or two respecting thle pare Plantagenet with Sussex!l electors on the rolls. What do we find? Hon. P. COLLIER: Certainly. I would There is a variation among the elec- not compare thle two members representing torates that cannot be justified on ac- those two constituencies. count of physical feature;, community The 1%Minister for Mines: There is no com.- of interests or any other point. De- parison. between the two. ,epite that, there is a variation of 1,000 voters Hon. P. COfsLIE.R: I do not know why the in some of the districts. What is the justifica- Minister for 'Mines should have referred to tion for it? What is the impelling principle Planiagonot. 1. know that he does take a keen influencing the Commissioners in allotting interest in that part of the State. He has evi- Canning 6,300 voters nni 'Mt. Hawthorn and dently adopted thaqt electorate and marked it Ijeederville 4,700 voters-a difference of 1,600 out for himself as a pocket borough. The voters? What is the object? What purposes electors of Albany will be interested to learn have been served? The Commissioners en- of the Minister's willingness to desert them. tirely disregarded the Electoral Districts Act The Minister for Minics: I have nor marked in making those variations. It was the ob- out Plan tagenet for myself. vious duty of the Commissioners to wake the Hon. P. COLLIER: I mean after the number of electors in each of those districts Commissioners' report was issued. it would as nearly equal as possible, more particularlyV seem as though thle Minister had dlone so, Mhen it is laid down in the Act we passed last particularly as he is right with Kendenup. year that whenever five seats or inure fall 20 If the Bill does not go through, this is a per cent, below, or increase 20 per cent. point the Albniy people will -remember. above the quota, there shall be another re- The Mfinister for 'Mines: I would, not build distribution of seats. Inl view of the way on that too muclh. You have not got Alb any the Coninissioners have acted, it means prac- yet. tically that a Bill will hlare to be introduced Hon. P. COLLIER: It is evident where the every year. "Minister 'wishes to go. The Premier: God forbid! The Minister for 'Mines: Don't count your Hon. P. COLLIER: The Commaissioners ch~ickens before they are hatched. have brought the Canning, Guildlford, and lion. P. C'ObLIER: At any rate 1. may be Claremont seats to within measurable dis- justified in drawing that conclusion. It has tance of thle mnargin which will necessitate been the p)olicy for the past two years an amending Bill. That shows that respecting to develop the South-West. All the the metropolitan electorates, tile Commis- energies of government ire being directed sioners disregarded the instructions issued to to pouring popuiatiois into the South- them by ]Parliament. I do not refer to the West. We have unidertaken to introduce size of metropolitan constituicecs, for none front overseas 2.5,000 people during the is large. next five years. The majority of those I-on. AV. C. Angwin: I wvish. you had to walk peopilo will lie settled] in the south-western p~or- over sonmc of them. tion of the Staite. The irgin set out in the lhon. P. COTi-lR:11 At any rate, they are Eheteral flistricts Act is 20 pier eenmt. above or below time quotas fixed. Obviously that pro- relatively small, and all are accessible by tramn or train. v isian wnas insericil in ardier that rte communis- THon. W. sioners might exercise thc-ir discretioni reslcet- G. Angwin: Not all. ing the various el-c-torates. If there is any H-on. P. COLJER: Well nearly so. dlistric-t at All where wve nig!t expert, n the Hon. WV.C.Angwiu: There aire neither exercise uf that discretion, the Comunissioners teamis nor trains in some parts. would keep) the enrolnments below the quota, it I-oni. P. COLLIER: At any rate, what is is the South-West. It is ovident that the the j1ustification for giving 1,600 electors more whole future policy of the State will mean in- to one! metropolitain constituency titan to an- creasing the population in thme South-West. Yet other? When the Electoral Districts Act was we find the Commissioners giving a higher before the House, I said it dlid not require quota in the South-West to the extent of from 14 SrMrnran, 1923.]56 567

Olin to b(19 Voters, titan in the older settled elling! The greater part of the electorate is poarts of ttle State, parts that are not likAy to remote from railway communication. ft is expand at all. What is the object of that ? far removed from the sent of govremnent. Was it sheer, rnmL ,ttupi tiy? These aten The means of communication are difficult. It coldi riot hare hail time slightest idea of the standa out ats pleinlly as A\tt. Eliza to any mn work they iere called upjon to perform! Al- with eyes to see and sense to understand, that though we are pouring people into the South- thle Mi~urchison should have had a smaller %Vest, ani must recognise that the popula- quota. That shonld he evident to anyone wvho tion is bound to Increase, the Commissioners gives it ten minutes coosileration. On the hare fixemd !such a quota! Oin the other hand, other ]land, Ave find that the Conimissj pna-rs iii t~v oler settled parts along the Great have allotted the higher quota to the Mur- -iimn,which are really stagnating, we find chison. There was another instance where the the Iosition is reversed. The census figures Coimmissinners should have exercised their dis- for 3Ji1 I andi 1921 show anl actual decrease cretion. Instead of providing a number of within that period. Yet those older settled electors below the quota, to the extent of 20 arvas, such as 1'ingclly, have 400 or 500 below per cent. or sonic portion of it, thre Conmmis- thm quota, this notwrithstanding that the popu- sioners ac~ted in a diametrically opposite way. lation has de-creased during the lpast 10 years. Mr. Heron: The quota, is within 50 of the in those juirt of thev State where the popuhai- 1ltinXiriUM. lion is increasing wveek by Nieck and month by 'Mr. Wilicock: And they had in trans imonth at tile rate of scores or hundreds, the fer [ceople to the agricultural areais to do it. uumbe~r of electors is upwards of .5001 above tile qutota. WVhat ('r be time object of that? * Hion. P, COLLIERi~: No niatter how ono Is there anyI oion111 Sense displayed inl fting examtines this work, whether in the bon iboundarics such as those I have referred to* dunies of the metropolitan 'irca whiere, with- If tile Commaissioner-, haid had regar(I ro thle wit apparent reason, the. Commissioners make principles and conditions laid down it the Act a variation of 1,600 in the different electo- under which they were to work, they could not rates? or whether in the agricultural areas, have done so. As to the goldfields, I anrut where we Sand unprogressire districts with that the central goldfields district is thle only dimainishing populations getting the smallest omie where the Comnmissioners allotment canl quotas, while progressive districts with in- be supported, bearing in mind the manner in creasing populations have the highest quotars, which their hands were tied by the Act. one is forced to ask why it was done. With The Commissioners have arranged the four all due regard for their high attainments in seats with practically an equal number of their respective positions, I can only say the electors in ceh tile variatin relprcsting Conmmissioners were entirely unfitted for the about 200 only. If that could be done in a work. A judge of the Supreme Court is not compact conuinuntity such as that of thre cent- the best person to do jastice to work of this ral goldfields, where thle interests, distance i nd. It requires men who have travelled front the capital, andl means of eonnnun ira- through the State, who know the edhratry dis- tricts? who have sonic idea, of the disabilities tioi are identical, why could niot that be thre people have to undergo; not men done in the metropolitan iarea where the con- who spend their tiae in city offices and have ditions, too, are, equal? Wvith the Murehison no general knowledge of the State outside the electorate as fixed by thre CJommissioniers, I metropolitan area, wrho do their work with cannot conc-eive how any lion. member repre- plans before them, drawing lines here and senting a -Northi-Western constituency can vote there, and counting off 2,000 in one place, for the Bill- tne need only look at time inali and 3,000 in another. Prom -beginning to to realise at once, that the Comimissioners stands condened. If merely have entirely misunderstood their work. They end the work failed to realise that they were dealing with because a Ommnission has presented it, thre a mining district. They failed to have regard House is prepared to accept a Bill when there to the requiremlents of the Act. 'Here is anl arc a hundred andI one anomalies and in- electorate where they coild hare exercised equalities in it, when every member after ex- tire discretion it was intended they should amiining it must know that it is inequitable, exceie. Compare the Murchitan electorate ultere shall we get to? If we accept the Bill with the Co'jlgarrlie district. Time Coimmis- there munit lie another rearraicewient qfter sioners. have allottedl Ceolgardlic 3,00 voters a rear or two. As soon ais thre rolls n againist 2,2011) for Muitr-hisonl. ( 'nolgardie rreparedl onl these proposed boundaries has the benefit of 4,daily -,xpress; train front a re issued there will he f ound almost the metropolis -an(] postal, telephonic, tele- asq great discrepancies as exist to-day, grraphic andi all other simvilar ennivenivimmees. when r any of the electorates contain Leaving Verti at .5 ptmi, nue rn raeh tilie river 1,1100 electors mnore than are allottedl to furthest joint of thle Coolgarilie electorate by% them on the hounilaries. (So I say the Bill rnon on the following dlay. Despite such oiz-rht to be reictted, andl that the facts we find these omniscient gentlemen haLve Ht. - t. will lie stultifvin-, itself in ac- allotted Cool,,arslie 400 or 5(06 fewer electors e'- tint it. I adm~it the limnos-ihility Of thn they have given. to Muirchison. This, the, present boundaries, wvith 8,000 elec- too, dJespite the fa-t that on)le :-:.nut reach tor., in one district and 4001 in another, tin' Murm-hisomi electo-rate aidl jarti'u-larl V its bint that is no r~nson why ire should accept owrer nortions ii il:- foor or fir,- days tray- somiethinu else tiat is unequal, although 11cr- 568 668[ASSEMBLY.) haps less unequal titan the existing plan. Ayns. There should be a way out, and I hope the Mr. Angelo, Mr. Money House will take that view of it, and indi- Mr. Si-nun Mtr. Pickering cate to the Commissioners dissatisfaction with Mr. Carter Mr, Piesse their work. As showing that the Commis- Mr. Davies Mr. Sampson sioners have not complied with the conditions Mr. Durack Mr. Seaddan imposed upon them, I remind the House that Mr. George Mr. Stubbs the Premier, when moving the second read- Mr. Gibson Mr. Teesdale ing of the Electoral Districts Bill last session, Mr. Hicktt Mr. A. Thomson told us the enrolment of the metropolitan Mr. Latbeet Mr. J. Tbaei10n Mr. Underwood area was 84,000, and that on that basis it Mr. H. K. Maley 14 members. The Rouse accepted Mr. 'Mann Mr. Mutiany would have (Teller.) that. What has happened? As made up to Sir James Mitchell the 24th May of this year, the roll on which the Commissioners operated showed 3,000 NoEIt odd electors, or 900 fewer than the number Mr. Angwin Mr. Marshall given by the Premier. Yet thn Commissioners Mr. Cheeson Mr. MeCallum were able to make 15 seats in the metropoli- Mr. Collier Mr. Troy tan area. Mr. Corhay Mr. W1licock Mr. Cunninghamn Mr. Munt'ie The Colonial Secretary: The electors num- Mr. Heron (Teller.) bered 83,700. Mr. Lutey Hon. P. COLLIER: Yes. I am taking the Motion thus passed. round figures. The Premier also said that there were in the -agricultural areas 66,000 electors. BTLL-TNDTJSTRIES ASSISTANCE The Premier: I said 65,083. ACT COLNTINfUANCE. Hon. P. COLLIER: Here is an offiil re- port signed by Mr. Cooke, the Chief Electoral Second Reading. Officer. It shows a difference of only a few Debate resumed from 30th August. hundred. The Premier said that on those Mr. LATHAM (York) [9.27): 1I regret figures there would be 22 members repre- that the Premier has not seen fit to bring in seating agricultural electorates. Yet on prac- some kind of amendment to the Agricultural tically the same figures the Commissioners Bank Act instead of introducing -the annual have been able to make 23 seats. Either the Bill to continue the Industries Assistance Premier did not understand his Bill of last Act. If we are to benefit the State, it is session-and nobody would accuse him of time the Industries Assistance Board were that-or else the Commissioners have not wound up. The Premier says he cannot do worked to that Bill as expounded by the Pre- that, because he requires to have somec pro- mier; because on a fewer number of voters tection for the accounts of the clients on the they accommodate a greater number of mea. hoard. I believe sufficient protection could hers. On those two Points alone the Bill be given under an amendm~ent of the Agricul- ought to he rejected. lIt is not often that tural Bank Act. I am concerned about this Parliament uindertaktes the disagreeable task because the clients on the hoard to-day, or of rearranging the electoral boundaries. We nmost of them, aire men in doubtfuli financial bare not had it since 1910. It is not desirable position; and the Longer we keep them on that the Voundaries should be rearranged the board the more of the State's money will with any frequeuecy. The electors themselves be used -without our having any really vain.- aIre the only ones to be considered. They get able asset for it, and the greater the diffi- accustomned to certain condI~itions, and it is culty those people will find themselves in not desirable to disturb those conditions, ex- when it heconmes necessary, as it must, to put ceplt it be e2ssential in the interestsofus them off the Government sosteniee. At the tic. ]But if we are going to accept work such same time, while I know a conbiderable "s this, we shall haveaReitiuon f amount of money is being lost through ad- SeasBll vey second year. I hope the vances furnished under the Indtustries Assist- House will reject the 'Bill. nce Act, it is not so great as somec people would have tie bclicv . In another place refer- M.%r.TEESDALE (Roebourne) [9-23) 1 enee has been made to a less of a quarter of a move-- million, which we were told might eventually prove to be one mtillion. On this aspect of That the debate 'be edjanrned. the. board's operatious I shall refer to thme 'Motion put and a division taken with the report of the Select comumittee Which inquired following result:- into the working of the hoard. It states-

Ayes .. . .23 The total advances umade since assistance

Noes ...... 12 has been given amounts tp E6,1.01,l7.5, For the year ended 31st March,1922, the amount was £1,018,085, and from March to the 315t Ma--jority for ]. August an additional £396,354 was ad- vanced. The total amount owingr to the [4 SEPTEMBE, 1928.)56 569

board on the 31st August, 2922, 'Was Mr. Broun: If he is in credit, he should £1,460,941. The amount written off as bad not be on the 1.A.B. debts totals £E48,948. -Mr. LATI-AMf: But it is stipulated that T hie must have £1 for every acre he intends [ he Deputy Speaker took the Chair.) to crop. Who is the manager of If we went into the whole of the figures and Hon. '.M. F. Troy: I.A..? tried to realise onl the security the board arc the holding to-day, 1 thiuk we would not lose Mr. LATH AM: Mr. Henston. It is time more than another £E100,000. While the State the Premier investigated the practice of giv- might lose that sumy I venture to say the ing these contracts exclusively to one firm, gain to the State has bean considerably more. particularly after the experience of last year It has enabled the State to collct land rents whben they were unable to supply the waggons and Agricultural Bank interest which it on order to time. They are turning out the would have been impossible to get but for waggons at a cost of £70, whereas a better the Industries Assistance Act. I was hopeful class of waggon by other firms costs consider- that the decentralisation scheme would have ably more. The Premier, too, should inter- proved beneficial, but the powers of the die- view the outside creditors, because I believe triet officers are so limited that, if anytbing, a considerable advantage could be gained for the scheme has been working to the detriment the clients by coming to an arrangement with the creditors, who have been waiting for of the clients. Repeatedly assistance has been sought and the requests have been referred some tinms for their money. If clients were to the district office, sent to Perth and then] put off the board to-morrow, the outside referred back again, thus delaying consider- creditors would be compelled to step in and ably the granting of the assistance. There realise what they could get, but I believe the is another thing that would assist the settler: Premier could make a very good compromise Instead 'of referring everything to Perth, with these people that would not only relieve matters such as the ordering of super should the settlers but would place the outside credi- be left in the hands of the local officers. tors in a much better position than they oc- Where the cases are doubtful, it would be cupy to-day. - They do not know whether they advisable to refer them to Perth, but such are going to get Is. or 5s. in the pounad, and eases would be few and far between. I would I believe they would be willing to meet the 1like the Premier to look into the question of Premier and adjust these debts en a basis contracts let by the I.A.B. for tbe supply of that would be satisfactory to them as well as waggons. One exclusive contract is given to to the clients. Another question is that of a firm at Fremantle and, dluring the last sum- the debts purchased from Harris, Scarfe & Co. mer, the firm were unable to supply the nuni- The Premier: That wkas before my time. her of waggons. ordered by the board. This M1r. LATHAMI: I am aware of that, but sort of thing should not be permitted to con- it does not matter how many wrongs were tinue. Last season fanners were leaving done by the previous Government; it is the their wheat in the paddocks for months wait- duty of the presenit Government to do what ing for means to cart it into the sidings. I is right. The previous Government thought hope the Premier will insist upon only such fit to purchase some of the debts from Harris orders being placed with thme firm as they are .9carfe & Co. and the 'International Harvester able to complete at the timie, so that farmers Co., and I believe they were puirchascd at Os. shall not 1e hung up for two or three months 8d. iii the pound. In the ordinary course waiting for waggons. The type of waggon that would have been a very good deal, but supplied has not given general satisfaction. the method adopted by the Government of The State Inmplement Works are turning out the day is a blot on the history of the State. a very good class of waggon. I do not wish Thoughi these accounts were bought for Os. to be a free commission agent for the State 80. in the pound, the Government are chnrg- works, hut the instructions issued by the iug the elicits 2Os. in the pound, plus 7 per manager of the I.AJ3. are that no orders shall cent. of 8 per cent interest on the 20s. When be given to thle Implement Works. Ile does a client comecs to get his clearance, he finds not take into consideration that the appli- himself uip against a considerable debt in ex- cants may have a credit balance with the cess of what he expected. It is a, scandalous hoard at the time of applying for waggoas. state of affairs. Hon. Al. F. Troy: Why has he issued that The Premier: You have no right to say ordier? that. Mr. LATHAM: I do not kn~ow. Mr. LATHAM: Does the Premier want the Hon. 3!%.F. Troy; The manager of the vood payers to pay for the had pavers! It board will not allow a client to pta-c his is iniquitous. I do not think he desires that, order at the TImplement. Works? but that is the result. M1r. LATEJAM:. The instructions are dleft nite that all weaggons must be obtained from Mfr. Willeock: They pay only what they the one firm at Fremantle, irrespective of owe. mbether the client has a credit or not. Th e 'Mr. 1tAT HAM.: The Government paid Os. applicant is the best judac of the class of 8d. in the pound. waggonk he requires, and if he is in credit, Yr. Corboy: Those people originally con- hie should certainly be able to place his order tradted a 20sk debt, and that is all they are where be likes. being asked to pay. [ASSERBLY.]

11r, LATHA.M: NO Other trustees would Thle Premier: Another place carried a mo- be permitted -to do such a thing, tion. stat itig that anly profits made should go Mr. Willeock: The Goveriunent lent the to thle State. settlers the money. Mr. LATHAM: Another place does not Mr. LATHA"M: They lent them Us. 8d. in control thle purse of the State. If I quoted the pound in order to purchase their debts, seime of thle things another place has done, and now they are charging the clients 20 s. the Prtentiier would not agree With Me. plus 8 per cent. interest on the 20s. rThe Premier: YouL may quote all that 'Mr. Willcock: They lent them the money another place has ever said. to enable them%to carry on their business. Mr. LJATH1A.%l Bitt the Premuier Would Mr. LATHAM:1 I venture te- say no one not agree with me ; bie remembers what hap. else acting as trustee for a concern in liquida- peired last session. tion would be permitted to do such a thing. M1r. Willcock : These debts woultd not hlave Hon. W. C. Angwin: It is doubtful whether been obtained for (is. 8d. if the Gov-ernmieut the Government can legally do it. had iiot adi-aneed the mioney. Mr. LATHAMI: But thec Governmtent arc 11r, tAT [-I : Clients getting their dis- doing it, and I say it is a scandal. charge frout tile board are going to _Massey 'Mr. 'Wilieck:. I think it is a fair pro- Harris and other firms whLose debts were not position, purchased, and t-c mtaking compromises of Mr. LATIIANI : I take qluite a different los. in the pound. They are getting their view. Those clients who to-day are strug- clearane, and tile not bein-titcarged4 8 per gling to do what is right should not be penal- centt. interest en 20s, in the pound. ised for thie nien who are not. That is what M.Nr.Mloney: They i-c maiking a composi- the Government of the day seeni to lbe doing. tioni. Mr. Money: Those Clients are Mt pay- '-1rr.l,ATJIA3,I.: The Government miadte ni ing more than they owe. coinpositios onl behalf of clients with the Mir. LATHAIM: They are paying more other firms anti htave no right to charge those than was adviviced. by the Government. u-ieaits onl the 20s. I do not know whether The Premtier: _No, they are not. they had any legal power to do so, bnt those Mr. Money: The contract is with Harris firms should Loire remained as outside credi- Searfe & Co. and thle International Harv-ester tors. Co. M\r. Wtlleet-k: Thu-re was a moratorium, at Mr. LATHAM1: If the lion, member were any rate. acting as trustee for my estate, would the Mr' LATHAM: That had nothing to do Government permit him to do the same thing? with the Industries Assistance Act. If these The Government would not, and as a trustee debts hind not been collected, the two firma lie would be placing hiuiself within the law would htave tail to wait un.til thle Industries if he purchased my debts at that price and Assistanc Act was discontinued or the set- charged ame 20s. in tile pound plus interest. tler obtained his clearance, whichever hap- Hoin. W. C. Angwrin: Thle Act provides petted first. If tile Government had not that the client can be charged only what bought these debts, the clients would have was advanced. beeni able to get oult by paying 10s. in the Mr. Money: The clients had to pay 20s. pounid. The Governtent would lose nothing in the pound, but were not in a position to at all if they charged the clients only what do it. they paid for the debts, namely, Uis. 8d. Even Mr. LATHAM- The advance made on be- if tltei- charged the clients thle full] 20s., it half of the clients was 6Rs.8d. and not 20s. in w-ould not be so bad as itt present when they the pound; yet they are being charged in- are eharging theta interest ott the 20s. terest on the 20s. The Government have no Arr. Willeock: T agree that that is rough. right to charge them 20s. in tile pound and Arr. LAT HAM: I hope thle Premier will interest on the 20s. look iinto this nutter and see that the Mr. Willcocle: You want the Government peCople struggling to get out of the debt of to lose the bad debt and the clients to get the Glovernmetit have an opportunity- to dio the benefit? so. Thle Govecriinienit will not hie giving themn Mr. LATH AM- The hon member wants anything. So long as they pay 20s. in the the mian, who is struggling to pay 20s. in the round oil thle money paidl for their debt, pound, to make up for the manl who is not that is all that should be expected of them. meeting his obligations. They should not he required to pay on money Mr. Wilicoek: He shonld pay. that was never advanced. I hope the Pre- Mr. LATHAMA: But the other man should iier will also investigate the question of not have to pay for hinm. I know men who winding up Ilte Industries Assistance Board. could go to their creditors and compromise. I an aware that u'o fresh advances are being Their credlitors are willing to accept 10s. ia nLIad, except to soldiers, but all the advances the pound. Sonic clients have done this and necessary coul lie made under te Agricul- have obtained their clearance. tural Batik Act. It is a veryvUwise ot policy Mr. Broun: The advances wvere made to to mtake advances to people for sustenance. the clients. ]It saps their initiative: there is no incentive Mr. LATHAM: But the clients should not for them to work. They know that at the he charged in excess of what was paid ott eml of thle year the whole of the profits they their hehalf. make must go to the Government, and a]- [4 SRP=YMBn, 1923.]57 571 though they may he in credit they have al- on the securities, and the assets and liabili- mnost to beg perision of the board to place tics of the settlers. their orders whbere they desire. I regret that Lion. P. Collier: Appointed on the recoin- the Premier thas not been able to bring in an mnendation of the Farmers and Settlers' As- amendment to the Agricultural Bank Act. i hope he will take sonmc notice of the small Hon. M. F. Tray: And to advise the 'Gov- committees appointed in the agricultural ernment as to reducing liabilities. areas to assist the L.A.B. Mr. WLLOCXK: We have been assured Mr. Willeock: Oh, ohl! on many occasions that this does not take Mfr. LATHAM: For the hon. member's place, and yet we find it is done. information, in nine cases out of ten dealt - Thle Premier. What is that? with, the decision of such committees will be Mr. NVILLOOCE: Committees have been in favour of the .AB. and the Agricultural formed on the recommendation of a political Bank authorities. These committees have organisation to report on the securities of the visited clients; they have been able to judge settlers. of the peoJple who cannot make good. It is Mr. A. Thomson: They are not appointed unwise for the State to carry on such people by the organisat ion. any longer. That being so, what is the use 'Mr. WVILLOOCK: They are appointed by of going on xoar after year? a branch of the organisat ion and their Yecoin- lHon. M4. F. Troy: Who visited these meadations have been carried out. In that farmns? near enough f or the bon. member? Mr. LATHAM. Two settlers f romi the dis- Mr. Latham: It is all to the benefit of trict accompanied by the district inspector. the Government. You should see some of Rion. Y. F. Troy: Did they go on their their rep)orts. own?9 Mr. AWLLC OCK: These men are placed Mr. LATHAM: The district inmpeetor in an invidious position. They have to re- went with them. -ommend whether a mn's sustenance shall Hon. M!. F. Tray: Were they competent be cut down, or his assets written off, and judges? so on. Mr. LATHAM: They were competent to Mr. J-.orham: They advise as toD whether know the value of the improvements and ma- a man is good enough or not. chinery-. Mr, WIILLCOCK: it is an iniquitous pro- Hon. 'M. F. Troy: Some of them are not. ceedsing on the part of the G4overnment to- Mr, LATHAM: Some may not be, but the allow such a thing. best men have been appointed to these comn- Mr, Lathuam: Do you know anyone better mittees, and they have been approved by the suited to advise the Government? Government. Hon. N1. F. Troy: The Government emelcals. Ron. 31X.-F. Troy: You do not know who Mr. W12LLCOCK: The Government or- have been appointed. ficials who have to stand up to the Govern- Mr. LATH AM: They are, worth consider- ment, for their acts. We shiould not have inig.They have given a lot of their time in. who are chosenL beecause of their popul- larisv wvith a political organisation. That is to helping the settlers and the Government. I hope sonic notice willhe taken of their akct the way to appoint valuers. reports. If they do, benefit will resuilt to the Mr.' Lathamn: We appoint our committees fairmers and the State generallyr. differently. Mr. WYLLCOCl(: Why go outside the Air. WILOOX (Geraldton) [9.4.5]: For Glovernment. officials1 Banks do not call in the past sir or seven years I have protested private, people to make valuations for them. against the nianner- in which this Act has Hon. 31L.F. Troy: The Westralian Farmers been administered. Every year brings forth do0 not allew anyone to do0 that. fresh ground for complaint. It is iniquitous Mr. WFLLCOCK: I do not know that they that two ilen. who are members of a politicat need he held up as a pattern. organisation, and are interested in the dlig- 31-r. Bro-n: The honks do call in private trict, should he es.peeted to write down secu- usflividluals to make valuations rities and maike ak fair report on what they Mfr. WILLCOCX: All sorts of people con- pee. It is absurd. Fancy two members of a nected with this political organisation could political organisation being asked to ilo this.! he appeinted. The most serious thing of all The Premier: They do not. is that certain big firms were able to ge t a Hon. AM,F. Troy: They dou. much hetter deal than the ordinary store- The Premier: You do not know the people. keeper was able to get. That is my chief lion. A1. F. Troy: I do. quarrel with the Government over this mat- The Premier:. Tell ie the names of two ter. If there was any reason why the liabili- of them. ties of the clients of the board shouldl he Hion. 3V. F. Tray: I know them well in my taken over at all, they should have been taken district. over altogether. ,%r. WULICOCK:, These men could lie ap- The Premier: They- should not have beenl pointed in 3rullewa and other places. This is taken over. the general procedure in connection with the Mr. WILLOO: Eve ryone should have adIministration of the Act. The committees been treated alike, whereas preference was can he appointed in various centres to report given to some of the big firms because of the 572 672ASSEMBLY.] pull they had. That was a scandalous pro- inet circumstances brought about by tilo cedure. I do not see why, if certain clients drought. We have had no drought like that were able to pay 6s. 8d, in the0 Pound to soe since, anud there is no longer any necessity firms, all their creditors could not have been for thle board. We have at least five institu- placed enl the same footing. The settlers tions financing people on tite land. owed the money and they should pay it hack Mr. Brourn: Tire difficulty is to get out in full, and I do riot think they should pay without a loss. interest. Mr, W1LLCOOI{: We know there will be Mr. Broirn: They should pay interest on ;t loss, and we should cut it. It. would be far tine 6s. 8d. better to institute aI systeml Of rural credit. Mr. WVILLCOCK: Because of the assist- There are settlers who owe land rents, who ance given to them by tire Industries Assist- have to pay- to tlte Repatriation lDepartmeat, once Board, they were able to get into a who are in debt to tle Soldier he4ttlement hetter financial position, and they should, Schmne, to the Agricultural Bank, and other therefore, pay iii full. tUovernrrcrt itistitutki~ns. They have accounts '.)r. Hiekmnott: The creditors are not get- with different departments, and do not know ting it all. where they- are. It takes a certified account- Mr. WITLLCOCE: In returnr for what the alirt two or three months to get to tire bottomu State did -for them, they should l)aY up. Of the financial, positionl Of soirre Of time set- Air. A. Thomtson: That is Shylock out- tiers. I have tried in Vlal to get to tite lrot- dore. tcnir of the accounts of sonc of tile clients of Mr. WILLCQCR: There arc some farmers tire Industries Assistance Board aitd the Agri- now worth up to X5,000, who would not hie cultural Brink, because their affairs are so in- worth a shilling to-day but for the hoard. terwoven with those of other departments. Mr. A. Thomson: But such a mailnhs. Mr, Angelo: We were told of carses of paid all his debts.,- clierrts of the hoard whre hadi received clear- .\r. WIILCOCK: Thle lion. menmher wants anies, although they owed motney to the hrn to pay only Os. 8d. in the pound. Hes Agricultural Bank and other (loeriment in- should pay tire lot. It is dishonest not to do stitutions. so-. NMr.WIhLCOCK.I{: know that is so. Under Nfr. Hficknott: Thle creditors were willing L.lpropier systemr of rural credit, there would to take 6s. 8d. be none of this overlapping. A- manl has to Mr. WILLCOOK: They were willing to trot round fromr department to departmnrrt tke Os. 8d. for bad debts on which they all for tile sake 'of one account. That is not might have had nothing. They struck n businesslike. average. There are some mna who, if taken The Premnier.- I. do nut think it canl be individually, would not have been let off with dlone in arty other way. 6s. 3d., though they might have been let off Mtr. WILLOOCK: I do not often thtrow at 15s. in the pound. The ountry Party bouquets at the Premnier-, but I am sure that wyant the Government to collect 6s. 8d. (rein if the 'Premier sat down and considered this the good clients and let the country stand umatter for a week, hie would evolve a scheme the loss uponk the others. This means that the of rural credit satisfactory to the people. It farmer who is financia is being let off 13s. is not beyond his capacity, and he ought to 4d. in the pound. do it for the benefit of tire State. Such a Mir. Money:. Which was not intended. reform would save the Government thousands Mr. WILLOOCK: The Government should of pounds in duplication of services, and have seen that all the creditors of the place the system of rural credit on a proper clients of the board had the same con- footing. Thre are people onl the Tidustries sideration extended to them. This would Assistance Board who do niot know within. have restored business to a greater ex- two or three hundred pounds how they stand. tent than has been the case during the Thre Premier: They can find out at any past five or six years. Many of those time. who were constantly assisting settlers Mr. WILLOOCK: I have tried many times have now gone to the wall. In my district on behtalf of people having accounts with the they have suffered perhaps more than in any i[ndustries, Assistance Board and the board other. I know of one mart who was worth could not get tire information for me. The £8,000 or £E9,000 a few years ago, but who, Preumier ought to adopt cry suggestion. He because of the assistance he rendered to is in intimate touch with the system of rural clients of the board, and other settlers, fins credit. He knows more about that subject now had to apply for an old age pension. The than any other individual. big firms, however, have got their Os. 8d., The Premier: But you are on the wrong whilst the other creditors have been over- track. looked. Private capital is in a, great measure Mr. WILLCOOCK: Tire Premier is the one responsible for the expanrsion of the agricul- nian, or at all events tire omne man in the Gov- tural industry. I protest against this Bill ernmnent, who does know something about the being brought down year after year as a matter. He could save thousands of pounlds temporary measure. It was first introduced in to the State, and make things far more satis- 1914, and we are still re-enaetinrg it. No one factory to the people doing business with the expected it would go on all these years. It Industries Assistance Board, the Agricultural was brought in as a temporary expedient to Bank, the Soldier Settlement Scheme, and al [4 SEPTEMBER, 1923.] 573 hie taxing atol ratfing bodies. This is not they have received. I Can give instances of omething that is sprung on. the Premnier. men who, in my district, wrent out Years ago 'very year we have asked hin, to dto sonie- as mutch as 30 miles from a railwa:y, in an- hdug in this connection. I hope that before ticipation of the construction of a line. They *he Bill passes the Premier wrill give an us- were removed. fron, that land, and tnnk, u4 urance that the committees wye have heard abandoned farms closer to the settled clis- *o much ahout "ill be albolishedl. They- are triets. Thereupon they found that the whole ina-arrantid:tind unnecessary. Further, we .ndebtedne~s on the farms which they head ihould have an, a-suratnce that this temporary abiandoned :30 muiles away was trainsferred to iteasure, which hias now existed for eight or thle farms which they we~re compelled to take line years, will lie abolished in favour of up1. In addition, they had to assume re- iproper st-stein, of rural credit tinder the sponsibility for the whole of the indebted- !ontrol of the Agricultural Hank, which ness onl the abandoned farms taken up by vould take ev-er the whole business of land then,. And yet we have members in this iettlenient. House stating that wveought to consider the storekeeper. [Thne Speaker remumed the Chair.1 The -Minister for Agriculture interjected. M1r. A. THOMSON: The Minister does, not Mir. A.- THOMSON (Katanning) [10.6]: k,,ow what is taking plate in ties Govern- Like the nienulior for York (_Mr. Lathami), riueit departments. I have here a pass book regret very much that the Government have belonging to a settler ina my dlistrict, which not Seel] fit to bring in endinxg legislation I am prepared to show to the M1fnistcr.C to0 deal with the Industries Assistance Board ala talking about what I know. My state- and the Agricultural Bank. The member for mieats are borne out 1w the bodies who in- Geraldton (Mir. Willeock) has stated that in quired into the subject. his opinion the committees are iniquitous, and Mir. Corboy: You are quite right. What that they savour of having been appointed you state has been done. by a political organisation. I reply that the Mr. A. T}IOMSON: What reasonable he is talk- beol. meinher does not know what chance has a man in such a position of mak- ing about. ing a success of farming? In my district 11r. Wilicock: That is easily said. It is very convincing. there is a mil who has spent 12 years on the Hon. P. Collier: land, and Heaven knows he has worked hard Air. A. THOMSON: I can easily prove it. enough, but now he has to go off his land to Mr. Willeock: Proceed to do so. work for a living. -Mr. A. THOMSON: I do not think the Hon. P. Collier: I know a man who has member for Geraldton has any of his con- been at work 50 years, and is still working stituents, or at least hut very few, in the un- for his living. fortunate position of being on the Industries Mr. A. THOMSON: It is mouch to be re- Assistance Board. gretted. Mr. Willeock: I have a good number. Ron. P. Collier: He has not been on the Mr. A. THOMSON: Not ninny. land, but he has worked just as hard. Mr. Willeock: I have a lot of storekeepers Mr. A. THOMSON: The 'nan T refer to with bad accounts. hass been compelled to farm under conditions '-\r. A. THOMSON: I am more concerned which, if he had been. left to his own dliscre- with men who have given years of their lives tion, would] have caused him to refrain front to land which will never give them a return. putting in a crop. T do not blame the hoard, I want to see them get justice, as well as the who, under their Act, can only advance money storekeepers. -While quite willing that the to put in crops. However, if they had given storekeepers should receive consideration, I this man sustenance for other purposes, they am more concerned about the man on the would have got a satisfactory return. The land, who has been misled, unfortunatcly for Government are lacking in their duty to these himself. lie has been misled by the Govern- settlers. They have the reports of dozens meat, though quite unintentionally. I am of committees. The member for Geraldton not speaking of the present Government. took exception to the appointment of the Such men were placed on land stated to be committees, but I say they have done cs- first-class, but wvhich has never given a crop. eellent work, work of great value to the In my district sonic men have worked for State. I had the privilege of seeing a re- 10 years without a return, and there are port which had been prepared by a coin- similar cases in your district, 'Mr. Deputy inittee in my district, and the recommenda. Speaker. tions in that report bore out the suggestion Hon. W. C. Angwin: Sonic men have had of the member for Geraldton, that the In- returns and have not paid their rents. dustries Assistance Board should cease to Mir. A. THOMSON: That may be so. exist, and that the provisions of the Agri- There are good and bad in all classes. The cultural Rank Act should be so amended as member for Cecraldton has stated that settlers to bring in settlers now on the Industries on the Industries Assistance Board cannot get Assistance Board. I1have these men coining information as to how much money they owe. to my office and asking, ''What are the I can substantiate that statement. Some of Government going to do with us?'' That them say they are charged with considerably is the most important point of all. The men larger sums as owing to the Govdirnment than have this huge load of debt hanging upon t.ASS EM Bt-

flatir shoulders, and they want to know the board, tire select r eimittee stated in their whether they are to hiave a fighting chance report: of sticking to tire land on which they have Great difficulty is experienced by clients worked so hard for so many years. To-day, in inalkinr arranrgements for cropping whren if a marn abandons a farmi under the Agri- the board ceases to grant further aid. If cultural B~ankc, that farm is throwu open to assistanice for this purpose is obtained else- selection. Thle property has to be written u-here, the board has a lien over the crop. down, because no manl will take it up unuer Tire c!oinur1ittee is Of opinlion that Whren its load of indebtedness. T am one of those such clients ire allowed1 to remain onl their who miaintain that a mail who has given holdings, thre conditions applying to the nine or ten years of his life to tire develop- crop should be similar to tirose which apply ient of a farm which has not p~roved all in thme ease uf woul obtained from sheep that he, or all that the Government, hoped supplied by private firmns, or at least to thle it would prove, should have thre op~portunlity Irroceeds fer the ninlout advanced in Con- of carrying onl with anl abandoned property. nection with the cropping. Tire eviderre For one thin, lie mnust have gained some givern to the commrittee was to tire effect experience du ring tire years he has ox- that when aid weas refused by the hoard, pended his energies onl the land. By giving timec would. he required to permnit of the such muen a chance, the Government will be further paynments to tile board being made doing mnere justice. I commend tho Min- off the aniount previously granted hiy the ister for Agriculture for Iris -action in ap- hoard. pointing Cunllittces to investigate these mnatters. The session should not conclude Mr, SPEA'KFii: Thle lien, memiber is dlis- without amending legislation being passed cussig the principles of the parent Act. to afford the settlers an opportunity to 'Mr. A. THOMSON: That is so. I anir make good. If we must face a less in con- endeavouring to show that thre Governrment nection with the Industries Assistance would haive been wvise in the interests of the Boardt, we should cut that loss. We are State and, more particularly, of the settlers facing a huge loss in connection with the who are onl tire Industries Assistance Board, \\m lndhnln Meat Works. hadl tile)- brourght forward ir amnending Bill Hon, W. C. Angwin: Is that tire ooniy instead of nmerely one to continue the prin- freezing works that is losing at thle present cipal Act. I ani not out to protect thle in- timec 7 terests of any particlar sectionl of the corn- M.\r. A. THOMSON: No. rnrity. and T. am net out to bent thme store- lion. WV.C, Angwin: Well, why deal with keepers. Evidence u-as given'before the select the Wyndlhrn works and not with othersi colrinittee thant miary of thre storekeepers were Mr. A. THOM.NSON: I wish to illustrate willing to :rccept. s. in the pound. The Coy- iny point. The membher for North-East Fre- erunnent u-crc foolish not to have- accepted mantle (Hors. M, C. Angwin) should not oc tire offer. I hrope the Government will not s0 telidey abouit the State trnding concerns. wait for the u-hole of the reports to conie We are makiing huge losses aird they wilt in fromn the various coinnittm-es N-fore giving have to be wr-ittn down. The v'alue of the attention to this qrle~tion. From the bulkc State Imiplement Works has beenr written of those already receivedl, fronr the experi- down. We have the examiple uf the Coin- cur-c of the Agricultural Bank, and from the nionivealtir Government who wrote down the experienrce of thle officials of the Industries value of tire Conrnunwenlth steamers, in Assistance Board, the Covernlnenat krrow whiat order to give themn a reasonable chance of is necessary. The Premrier, the 'Minister for paying. That is what we must face in con- Agrierrltilre, and all memibers of Parliamient neetion. with the I.A.B. recognise it is only a fair thing to give these Mr, SPEAKER:. That cannot be done- mnen a reasonable chance to make good. under this Bill, which is merely a continua- 'Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member is dis- tion measure. cussing the principles ot the Bill. This is Air, A. THOMSON: I know that, but the Ilerelv a coatinumatien measure. I have al- Government have practically promised to ready allowed tire liron. inimer considerable eonsider concluding tile operations of the l atitude. Industries Assistance Board. That was one lion. M. F. Troy: Tire question is: Shall of the reconmnendations of tile select corn- Ilie Act be continuied or shall it nt. wittee last year who were appointed to In- Mr. A. THOMTSON:\ Following Onl thle quire into tire :rdninistratiomr of the Indus- lines prursued 1w the member for Geraldtonl tries Assistance Board. A large number of these cemmnittees-E know of one nAt any ('Mr, Willeock) anld the mnember for York rate-favour the recommrxendatinn of the (Mr. lIrtharrr), I ami shrowing why the Act select commnittee. One reason for the non- should not he corntinned, and why it should hie success of settlers has been, to use their allrended. own phrarse, that ''farms cannot he ma n- 'Mr. Willcoek: Your are giving reasons aged froni an office chair in Perth.'' agarinst the Bill. That is the unfortunate part of tlre whole M.%r.A. THO.0MSON: [ do not say I wvill business. T regret the Government have not vote against the Bill, because I have no op- seen fit to bring forward anl amnending Bill to ticn in the matter. 1 do0 not know that tire carry rot the recomnmendiations of the select Goverineent led usc to believe they would in. committee. Tn dealing with the clients of troduce legilotion to amend the Akgricultnral L4 SEPTEMBER, 1923.]

Bank Act '.,,t orrne or Lis hoped that it would Ilf;TITION-REDISTBI El~TION he lone. OF SEATS. M*r. $I'EAKER: Unfortuniately. thle Bill ilr. J. H1. 6AITH brought up~ a petition deem nor i illeate that and I cannot allo%% tIe froni the electors of Baiingul- and _Meiiai ip, lio1n. lUCnilwr to gevt right away from the B3ill in the -Nelson electorate, protesting against biefore the Chair. those areas being transferred fronm Nelson Mr. A. THOM PSONV: 1. will not disagree to the Collie electorate. with v,).Tr ruhiur, bat the fact romnzni I aw giv:!g r.zsous wiry thre parent Act should be P'etition re(!cived and read.

)1r, 41'1"AXI-At: Thre joint ik whether tire Industries A-sitnru-e Act shall Ise cojn- QUESTION-EAXT PERTII tinited. It is ol a mnatter of striking out CEM1ETERY. certain iv- ol-, alr'i iILsertin1- othe-ri. Tire lion. Mr. HUGHES asked the Minister lor membel~r v-im give renN-ns whby the Act shoulld Lands: 1, What is the area covertA by the tiot be continued, lbut hie is not in order in land reserved for a cenretery in East Perth!. disicussing t1he whole of the raifiications; of 2, Bas the ceinxter.- been closed agnaiust fur- thle Indirsti-ici Assistanlce Board. timer burials? 3, In1 whoml is thre con1trol Of Mr. A. TIIOMM11ON: I amn not doing su. this land vested! 4, AppJroxinmately c-hat Irf I wrere to tl( that 1. would keep, the House percentage uf the reserve is occupied by sittinz for hetars. 1 have made iny protest gravesf and I do ho-pe the. Govenuinit will introduce a Bill to :nacii the Agrficultural Bank Act The MINISTER FOR AUI{OLXLTURE before tire close of the session. As the mem- (for the Minister for Lands) replied: 1, ber for Geraldton lins pointed out, we have 14 acres 3 roods 12 perches. 2, Yet. 3, two departments plractically doing the same 12 acres and 20 perches granted ln fee to the work. various denornintions, one-quarter of an acre Mr. Willecek: There are more. There is reserved for the Chinese, 2 acres 1 rood 32 the soldier settlement schemne in addition. perches is vested in the Crown. 4, Forty per Mr. A. THOMSON: In the interests of the cent. S.tate, in the interests of economy, and in the interests of the settlers, amending legislation should be introduced. Q11mSTION-YETERI NARY SUR- On motion by tire Minister for Agriculture, GEONS' BOARD. debate adjourned. Mr. LATHAM asked the Minister for House0 adjourned at 1GAX5 p.m. Agriculture: 1, Who are tire nmenibers of tire board appointed under the Veterinary Sur- geons Act, 1911? 2, For what term do they hold office? .9, How nmnny meetings wecre held for the years 1921-22-23? 4I, Who deals with the correspondence for the board? .5, What number of aiew registrations were made in the years 1921, 1922, 1923? 6, What number have been struck off since January, 1921? 7, What are the total number of practitioners registered to date? teiIlativc EReenblvi, Tire MINISTER FOR AGRrCUILTu1IE I17rdnesdety, 5th September, 1923. replied: 1, B. E. Weir, 'M.R.C.V.S. (chair- mark);- John Robsonm, Mf.1tC.V.S.; E. A. LeSouef, BNVSe.; Edwin Bose; 'M. Body. Page 2, Twelve mionths. -3, 1921, nil; Petitron: Redistrihetion of Seats...... 575 1922, orie; Questions: East Perth Cemetery------575 19-23, one. 4, The chaiirnman. 5, 1921, one; veterinary Surgeons' Board ...... 576 1922, nil; 192-3, nil. 6, Nil. 7, Twenty-two Railways, 1, Jamindmp-Deunmatk:* 2, Nyablng- Piunr Extension------575 practitioners; and there are alto nine qunali- Bills:- State Trading Concerns Act Amendment, fied sulrgeons in the State. Leave to iatrodurce .. 576 Architects Act Amendment, l1R...... 585 Factories and Shops Act Amendment, 2H... 585 Wemren'a Leaal Status. R...... 592 Local Authorities (Additional Powers),. .. 594 QUESTiONSi (2)-RAILWAYS. Veterinary Surgeons Act Amendment, dis charged.. 595 Jornedup-Denma-k Line. Lunacy Act. Amend ment,' ..------.. -- .. 505 Inspection of Machinery Act Amendment, 2R. 597 Mr. MHANN asked the Mlini'-ter for Works: Notices of Motion ...... 555 Is it the intention of the Government to call Motion : Soldier Settlement, Royal Commission- ers' recommsendations ...... 597 tenders for thec constrnction of the two we- tions of the Jarnadrzp- Denemark railway1 The 'MINISTER FOR WOR]KS re-lie-i: The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30 p.m., Preparations are in progress with that ob- :-, rend prayers. ject in view.