Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
TUESDAY, 19 AUGUST 1879
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
Batkurst Burr, Etc. [19 AtrGUS'l'.] Questions-; 1293
LEGISI.ATIVE· ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, 19 August, 1879.
Xew }1ember.-Questions.-Ufe Insurance Bill-third reading.-Sa-Confidence :lfotion-resumption of debate. The SPEAKER took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Mr. John Malbon Thompson took the prescribed oath, signed the roll, and took his seat as member for Ipswich.
QUESTIONS. Mr. MILBS asked the Minister for ·works- Has the Government come to any settlement with Mr. Ballard as to the amount of reward he is entitled to on the saving in construction or the Railwav from vVestwood to the Comet ?-If not, why not? The MINISTER FOR \VonKs (Mr. Mac rossan) replied- 1. No. 2. Because the Government are wait.ing for certain information which Mr. Ballard has been requested to supply. Mr. MILES asked the Minister for Works- What amount, if any, is available from votes passed by this House for the purpose of Rail way Surveys ? The MINISTER FOR \VORKS replied There is at present the sum of £5,246 4s. 3d. to credit of Loan Vote for Railway Surveys, which sum, it is anticipated, will be absorbed iu 90ID)Jletmg the Burve;vij llltead;r llllthorise!l, 1294 No-Oonjiilence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Confidence Mot,ion.
LIFE INSURANCE BILL-THIRD to know that the Government had a defi READING. nite object-namely, to open up the western On the motion o£ Mr. RurLEDGE, this country, advancing the pastoral interests, Bill was read a third time, passed, and and, at the same time, by means o£ short ordered to be transmitted to the Legislative branch lines, developing the agricultural Council .for their concurrence by message interests. This might not be a policy in the usual form. that would suit the Opposition, but it would certainly satisfy the British capitalists to NO-CONFIDENCE MOTION -RESUMP whom the colony could alone look to ad vance the money required. With respect TION OF DEBATE. to the interest, as the Colonial Treasurer Mr. AMHURST said that, in discussing pointed out, the money was not to be bor the motion proposed by the hon. gentlt>man rowed at once, nor in one large sum, (Mr. Griffith), it would materi~lly assist and it was to extend over a series of hon. m<>mbers i£ they consiclered what years. It was not likely, he might kind o£ a vote it was. Was it a vote of say, in connection with this part of his no confidence with regard to the loan subject, that we were always going policy of the Government ?-or was it a to remain in a state o£ depression. vote of no confidence on their general Queensland was sharing in the crisis policy? It. might possibly h:we been through which the whole of the world moved by the hon. the leader o£ the Oppo had passed; it had affected, not Aus sition £or some other reason. It was not tralia alone, but America. He passed necessary just now to describe what that through America two years ago. and reason was; but it might have been £or his a gentleman who was thoroughly ac own convenience to enable him to find out quainted with it said he had never what was the intention o£ his own fol seen America so depressed, and that lowers. The speeches delivered by mem some of the railways were not pay bers on the Opposition side of the Home ing their working expenses, while only showed that they were not at all united three-tenths of them were paying a fair amongst themselves. The speech of the dividend. Two months ago the same gen hon. gentleman (Mr. Griffith) was a very tleman told him that the alteration for the half-hearted affair; and it was to be better was something wonderful; and any noticed from the first that the hon. gentle one reading the papers which came out by man did not enter into it in the spirit the last mail would see that a change in which he generally exhibited on important the direction of a revival was already be matters o£ that kind. It looked very like ginning in England ; - that shares and as if the hon. gentleman throughout was stock generally were rising, and that people simply trying to make the best o£ a bad were getting tired Gf merely having gold case. What were his charges against the in the Bank o£ England, bearing no interest. Government P The most important charge There was, therefore, every reason to sup he brought against them was that the pose that a time of prosperity would shortly Colonial Treasurer had not stated how the be experienced by the Australian colonies. interest was to be provided, nor had laid The change might be a few months dis plans and specifications of his proposed tant, but it ought not to be longer. railways on the table. Another charge He was inclined to believe that a hopeful was that he was entering into too large a view would be the most sensible just now. loan. The second charge was fully an It was but natural that a colony the size o:f swered by the Premier, who explained Queensland would suffer when others suf that his loan took the shape it did fered; and, in a corresponding degree, when in order to show the British public, who a flow of wealth was enjoyed by other lent the money, what the colony would nations, there would be quite sufficient to require during the next three or five years ; put the colony in a state of prosperity. anJ in taking that course the hon. gentle The Opposition seemed to be dead against man at the head of the Government proved the Divisional Boards Bill, which was one that his was not a short-sighted policy, o£ the best Bills ever brought into the but one that saw far ahead and was calcu House, and the keystone of the whole Gov lated to give confidence to the money ernment policy. It would prevent wasteful lenders in England, who upon becoming expenditure on public works, and when acquainted with it would be at once led the principle of potmcl £or pound was to say, "This is not a make-shift policy established there would be eqrial justice like that o£ the late Government, but £or every portion o£ the colony. I£ the policy of a statesman." As to the any public work was to be done, it was plans and specifications, it was, of course, only fair that people who got a direct perfectly impossible to tell where lines benefit from it should pay a fair propor that were to be built during the next tion of the outlay, and such a system was three years would exactly go, or where the the best guarantee that could be devised deviations would be, although the general against wasteful expenditure. The speech directi,on waR weH known. lt was enough o£ the hon. gentleman (Mr. Douglas) No-Confidence Motion. [19 Auausr.] No-Conjirlence Motion. 1295 showed most conclusively of all that there with a proper scheme-produce sheep, and was a split in the opposite camp. The be able to export large quantities of wool, hon. gentleman said he was a free lance-a which was one of the greatest sources of free agent-and that he wanted a coalition our wealth. The Government proposed, ministry. The fact was the hon. gentleman also, to encourage settlement by creating new wanted ~t new toy. The last Government, agricultural districts. Any railway shorter of which he was a member, was once truly than fifteen miles, however, would not pay, described by the hon. member for Mitchell because it would pay better for farmers as kalt>idoscopic. During the five years the to bring their own produce that distance. party represented by that Government After that it would begin to pa_y, and a line were in power they had three Premiers, fifty or sixty miles long would not only five Ministers for Lands, two Colonial enable people on the direct route to bring Treasurers, three Attorneys-General, five their produce direct to market, but also Jl,finisters for \Vorks, two Postmasters those living fifteen miles on eaeh side of it, General, and three Colonial Secretaries ; if not further. One of the most expensive and, if the hon. gentleman obtained his things in agricultural pursuits was the wish and had a cmtlition Ministr_y it would bringing of produce to market and hand be one of the same kind. The hon. gentle ling it. ·with a railway the produce would man evidently was fond of change, for only have to be handled once before it got he himself took se>eral positions-first of to the place of shipment, instead of a num all sitting on the cross-benches, then ber of times as at present. The Govern becoming MinistPr for Lands, then Pre ment thoroughly understood the railway mier and Colonial Secretary. At one question, and the country might repose time the hon. gentleman voted against with confidence upon their judgment. his party, and in his speech the other day Then came the vote for harbours and he seemed at first to be a friend of the rivers. This, though not directl_y remuner present Go>ernment, but by-and-bye he ative, was a most important thing for the did not know what he was; and he (Mr. wdfare of the country. The improve Amhurst) was sure no one else could ments might be made for one particular gnther what he was from the hon. gentle district-say the port of Brisbane-but man's remarks. That the Opposition must they benefited the wholP colony by en be thoroughly disorganised was shown abling vessels to come to and fro with further by the member for Northern those imports and exports on which the Downs, who was once Premier and :\1inis prosperity of the colony depended. The ter for \Vorks, and who inauguratPd a vPry only thing he could possibly find fault vigorous policy, which he last week with in the Loan Estimates was that a acknqwlPdged to have been entirely wrong. larger sum was not put down for roads to It was gratifying to see that hon. gentleman goldfields and other nunes ; and, although turn from the error of his ways; but it would the maki1ig of railways thither might be a have been better if he had taken the risky undertaking, owing to the uncer advice of the Opposition when he was in tainty of some of the reefs, still he would office, and not plunged the country into have liked to see a larger sum put down the expenses caused by that policy. M any to improve communications between the of the ways in which the public money was gold mines and the ports of shipment. He spent while the hon. gentleman was ,VJin could not agree with the remark of the ister for \Vorks were enough to shake the lPader of the Opposition, that the £100,000 credit of any colony; and the House for loans to shire councils was a sop. It was would, no doubt, remember that memorable nothing of the sort : it wa~ an important night when he got up and said, "Here; part of the Government policy to give those I'll give every di~trict £2,000; settle it bodies a fair start-in the same way as a amongst yourselves." Was there ever a house-owner would put a house in repair colony, howevPr rich its resources, that before giving the tenant his lease, and could carry on successfully with a finan would then say, " Here is your lease, and cial policy of that kind ? At the you will have to keep the house in repair present time, instead of a disorganised in future." All he hoped was, that in Governnwnt, they had a Government spending this money the Government that was strong and firm-that had its own would give it to those districts most fairly opinions, and that could carry them out. entitled to it, and not to those that had the He (Mr. Amhurst) appw>ed ofthe railway moRt population-but those that had been policy of the GoYernment, and believed entirely neglected by the late Government, most pl'Ople would approve of it too ; for which was only a Queen-street Ministry. the railway policy aimed at developing Without occupying the time of the House pastoral and agricultural pursuits, while further, he would conclude by saying that the loan policy provided for mining and he did not believe the remark of the leader other industries. No doubt, there were im of the Opposition, that if the Ministerial mense tracts of country in the far west that side were free to vote according to their wt>re now devoted to the rearing of cattle, and own convictions, and were not afraid of that would-if railways were pushed out turning the Government out, they would 1296 No-Oonfitlence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Oonfitlence Motion.
vote against the Loan Estimates. It was have got a little more information. The certain that on the division his side would Colonial SPcretary interjected aeross the give the Government a hearty support, table, the other night, that these railways because they had the courage of their were going to the "setting sun." I have opinions, and that the vote of the other devoted some little time to the solution of side would be given for quite different the problem as to the locality thus desig reasons, and not one of them had said what nated, and I think I have succeeded in the true reasons were. finding where the "setting sun" is. There Mr. MrLEB : It is not my intention to is an article in the Ipswicl~ Obser1'er of refer to speeches made in past sessions of yesterday, headed, "Does it Halve the Parliaments, for the quotations adduced by mystery P" in which the writer says- the hon. member for Wide Bay ;how clearly and distinctly to my mind that, " Under the head' Notes from Australia,' the Galloway Advertiur and 1VigtonsMre Pree whatever opinions the Ministers held in Press publishes a lengthy artiele upon eolonial bygone days, they have abandoned them affairs, from its 'intelligent correspondent, :Mr. now. There can be no doubt about that. .Tames McDowall,' and from which we (Stannum In advocating their public works policy, Miner) extract the following itC'm as appro the Ministry say that the policy of the late priate at the present juncture of political affairs, Government was similar; but I hardly see unless the combination of names italicised (the any force in turning out one Government italics are our own) is a mere coincidence, un merely to put in another to do enactly connected with the 'men we know.' The writer the same things. The Premier too.k con says:-' All that we want in this great new siderable exc~ption to a speech made country is more people of the right sort and by the leader of the Opposition at Rock more money. Wear e only a handful compared hampton, stating that the views he there to what we can contain. You have got more put forward were similar to his own; people in one town than we have in the but in saying so he left out the most whole colony. Your readers may ask what in essential part-namely, that the leader of ducements do we give to bring people from the the Opposition did not intend to meet the old Pountry. I answer-Cheap food, cheap land, and plenty of it; with employment and interest on the cost of co!lstruction of the tolerably good wages for all who are able and main trunk lines out of general revenue. willing to work. In order to show you the That is the great distinction between the quantity of land that has lately been taken up, railway policy of the two hon. gentlemen. I enclose a slip cut from a newspaper, hoping The Premier's policy-and I object to it you will find room for it in your valuable entirely-is that the residents in the settled columns.' The subjoined is a portion of portions of the colony, who have already the slip enclosed, apparently from a South borne the interest for the construction of Australian journal :-' On the eastern boun those lines into the interior, are still to be dary of the colony adjoining Queensland, and oppressed by being called upon to pay for between the 24th and 18th degrees of latitude lines into that splendid country we have extending west towards the telegraph line, a heard so much about. Considerable allow large amount of country has been taken up for ance might be made to thehon. member (Mr. pastoral purposes within the past six months, Gri:ffith) for his speech on that occasion, the pioneers of the present movement being because he had just accepted the portfolio Me,;•srs. Forr·cst, Collins, Mcilwraith, and others, who have secured blocks of several t,Jrousand of Minister for Works-an office quite square miles, are vigourously searching for new to him-and above all it was an water, and are taking stock over from Queens after-dinner speech-just like that of the land." Premier's at Ipswich when he praised up the Germans and said they were the best Here I may ask whether the £30,000 on class of settlers we could get. I have the Loan Estimates, for water storage on nothing to say against the Germans ; all main roads, has anything to do with the they require is to be let alone to mind watering of the country here described ~ their own affairs ; but, as I am not in the The article proceeds- habit of flattering anybody, I will not say " These holdings are principally within the they are better than other people. I do 136th to the 138th degrees of longitude, but not care where you carry railways to so the intervening country towards Tenant Creek long as you make those to be benefited by and Alice Springs is also being mpidly taken them pay the interest for their construc up. The conditions of holding are that the tion. If the Government will adopt that lease shall be for a period not exceeding 25 prmciple, I will offer no objection to the con years, at a rental of sixpence per square mile struction of these main trunk lines. Excep for the first seven years and ten shillings per square mile for the remainder of the term. tion was taken by the leader of the Opposi The run must be declared stocked within three tion that there is something indefinite in years, with at least two head of great cattle, or the railway policy of the Government ten head of small cattle for every square mile. that we do not know whither they are Numerous applications have been received and going to carry the lines. We are s1mply continue to be received for selections, and it is told that each is to be extended 130 believed that large quantities of stock are being mile~ west, somew4efe, Si~ce tha.t time we ~ent to th!l newly·clt~ilnef.l, co1 tricts of the Herbert and James Rivers, having of the Opposition questioned his sincerity been driven out of the neighbouring colonies in this works policy ; but if there is one from want of water. Queensland and New thing more than another that would compel South Wales squatters are taking advantage of hon. members on this side to question his the liberal terms of settlement, and on Wed sincerity, it is to find him coming down nesday, October 17, Messrs. Mcilwraith.. TulZy, with a proposition to construct 500 miles of and Drury, of Queensland, took up 8,500 railwaywithoutmakinganyprovision for the square miles. On the 8th Mr. Mcllwraith also survey of them. The Minister for Works, took up 2,400 miles, and on the 19th 2,000 miles were taken up by Messrs. Brown and in telling us that the trunk line~ could Kilgour, of New South Wales, more to the be made for £3,000 a-mile, gave as his southward, or just within the tropic of Capri authority for the statement, Mr. Ballard. corn betwe en E. longitude 136 and 138. On I do not wish to say anything against Mr. the lOth Mr. Do Bnrgh Persse, of Sydney, took Ballard as a professional man, but as an up 6,000 square miles in a more central direc engineer for the construction of low-cost tion west of the other selections." railways he has been an utter failure. I am sure that when the Minister for Works As to whether" Mr. De Burgh Persse, of, comes to inquire into the nature of the Sydney," is identical with the hon. mem work that he has constructed, he will find ber for Fassifern, I cannot say; but I that the reward he will be entitled to will thinkihavefoundout-although, of course, be a small one. I know something about I may be mistaken-where the "setting .Mr. Ballard's railway construction, and I sun " is towards which our trunk lines are do not accept him as an authority on low to run. I have not the slightest objection cost railways. The Minister for Works to the railways going in that direction if laid great stress on the difficulty of getting the Government will provide that those through the Goganjo ranges, and compared who are to have the benefit of them shall them with the Main Range. He also said pay the .interest on their cost of construc the extension from Brisbane to Ipswich was tion. At present a vast portion of that a very expensive one, and that that great country returns to the revenue something expense was caused by a blunder of the less than one-sixteenth of a penny per then Minister for Works. I believe mis acre, or 8s. per square mile ; and yet in takes were made in the construction of the face of that we are asked to make that extension. I believe one of those mis railways at the cost of the whole ·colony takes was made by Mr. W alsh, who was for the sole benefit of people who virtu then Minister for Works, by introducing ally hold the country for nothing. If the system of small contracts; although I the Government had only come down am sure he did it with a good intention. with a proposition to increase the rents He hoped by that means to save money to of the pastoral lessees sufficient to pay the country, but the plan turned out a the interest on the construction of failure. Mr. W alsh was succeeded in these lines I would have given them my office by the present Colonial Treasurer, most hearty support; but I shall be no and I am told that the blunder commenced party to the construction of those lines if by Mr. W alsh was continued by that hon. the residents of the whole colony are to gentleman. So that it is rather refreshing bear the burden of them. It is said that to see the Minister for Works sitting along these lines can be made for £3,000 a-mile, side his colleague, and accusing him of and I am not prepared to say that that sum blundering in railway construction. The will not suffice ; but that depends entirely present Colonial Treasurer was not long in on the kind of railways that are to be con office before he quarrelled with the Chief structed. If they are to be made in the Engineer, and removed him, replacing him same substantial manner as the Southern with another, whose conduct, I am told on and Western Railway, I have not the authority, owing to his quarrelling and slightest hesitation in saying that £8,000 wmngling with the contractors, led to an a-mile will not be nearly enough. I pre enormous increase in the cost of the line. sume that sum includes stations and Somehow or other the line came to cost rolling-stock as well as permanent-way, £16,000 per mile--we have the word of the for if it does not there is no provision on Minister for Works for that. I think you, the Estimates for them. In ftnswer to a sir, sueceeded the present Premier as Minis question I put to.chy, the Minister for ter for Works, " and so were one of the Works said there was an unexpended blunJerers, according to the Minister for balance of over £5,000 for surveys, and Works. The line was completed, I that the whole of it would be required for believe, under you, and I know you pu~hecl surveys now authorised. 'l'he Government the works on a great deal. Is the Minister now propose to make nearly 500 miles of for Works aware that out of the lOO miles railways, and I should like to know where of railway he referred to as constructed by is the provision for the survey of those Mr. Ballard so cheaply, thatforsixty-three lines P-for, certainly, bdore you commence miles the lines are on the surface, and that it building a railway a survey must be made. is only necessary to throw. eighteen inches The Premier was very sorry that the leader to two feet from the water-tables into the 1879-4 L 1298 No-Cor~;fiilence Motion. [ASS.EMBLY.] No-Confidence Motion. centre and throw the ballast on to the top ? prove that for 63 out of lOO miles of that Is he aware that some portion of the line line the lines are laid down on the surface. is fifteen feet under flood-mark? It is The hon. gentleman says Mr. Ballard preposterous to bring Mr. Ballard for offered to take a contract, but I hope he war~ as a great authority on the intro· does not mean that he is going to revert to ductwn of cheap railways. Mr. BnJ the small-contract system. lt would ap lard has been drummed into our ears pear so from that remark; but I hope, in the for years and year~ past. When some event of the Government getting this money, objection was raised to a trial survey pre he will clo nothing of the sort. The hon. pared by Mr. Ballard, the Colonial gentleman also made a statement which, Secretary himself said, "Mr. Ballard made coming from him, was most extraordinary. the surveys; I am satisfied that they are He saicl- correct." We have had too much of Mr. " vVe are continually being told that these B~llard. I have no hes~ta~ion in saying. lines are to be run out westward solely for the w1thout fear of contrad1etwn, that he is benefit of the pastoral lessees. I confess I the most costly railway constructor we once held similar opinions, and I believe that have had, and that from the time when he people who hold those opinions hold them in commenced the construction of the railway ignorance of the real facts of the case." from W estwood to the Comet no Minister for Works or Commissioner for Rail ways I remember long before the hon. member could tell how one iota of the money voted' came to this House, when he was stumping was expended or what it was expended about Charters 'l'owers, he was one of the for. There was not the slightest check hon. members who talked about the cor upon him ; but, for the short time I was in morant squatter, the curse of the country. the Works Office, I put a stop to that. I How is it that he has changed his opinions ? do ~ot wish to say that he misappropriated Is it because he is now surrounded by a smgle penny or anything of the kind ; those cormorants and supports them on the but I say that it is a bad principle to Treasury benches ? He goes on to show throw the whole expenditure into the the immense amounts of money the pas hand of one man to make ducks and drakes toral ten:mts have paicl into the Treasury of the money as he likes. The Minister that since Separation to the present time for Works, in !:tis .answer to me to-night, they have paid hundreds of thousands of says that he 1s m correspondence with pounds, sufficient to pay the interest on the Mr. Ballard. On the construction of whole of the borrowed money. But if they that line, Mr. Ballard claims to have have paid all this money into the Treasury made a saving of 30 to 50 per cent., which, they have got a good deal for it. I have taken at the lowest, would amount to already shown that the pastoral lessees in £180,000. According to the slip-shod the western interior hold large tracks of agreement entered into by the Govern country at the one-sixteenth of a penny per ment of which the Colonial Secretary was acre. Seeing that snch is the case, head, Mr. Ballard is entitled to be re I am astounded at the Minister for warded, though I do not say to that extent. 'Works coming down as the champion Mr. Ballard may have made a saving, but of the pastoral tenants to say that they he has had advantages which no other con are ill-used individuals. He goes o"n tractor has had. From the time he com further to ask, Did not they contribute menced the line from W estwood to the towards the general revenue, and did not Comet he has hacl the same plant all their men, and the clam-makers and car through. A contractor for twenty miles riers, contribute to the general revenue by would require almost as mllch plant as has taxation? And he tells us the immense sufficed to carry the line to the Comet. It sums of money they pay as rents. The is therefore necessary for the Government hon. member used to be the champion of to look very carefully and closely into the the digger, but he has used them very claims of Mr. Ballard as a cheap railway scurvily after the handsome way in which constructor. The Minister for Works in they treated him in going over to the his speech, said- ' squatters, and shelving them. On Wed nesday last, however, the hon. member " At the present moment I have in my pos m:tde a most outrageous statement, which session an offer from the Chief .Engineer of the might astound anyone, and which was Northern and Central Railways to construct a calculated to do more harm to the pastoral line from the 200-mile peg westward to the Alice River, for a cost of £3,000 per mile, in tenants than good. I used to take every cluding everything; and that line has to thing the hon. member said for granted, surmount the Drummond Ranges, so that a because I thought he was thoroughly portion of the line will cost from £8,000 to acquainted with the subjects upon which £10,000 per mile." he spoke, and a practical digger, but I now believe he'R nothing of the sort. \Vhen an The hon. gentleman himself stated that hon. member gets up in the House and the line from W estwood to the Comet cost talks about what he does not under;tand; ~~~~3 per !llile; bnt I ttm pre~red to I believe he is prepared to do anything; No-ConfidenrJe Motion. [19 AUGUST.] No-Oonfidence Motion. 1299 He drew a very flourishing picture of what The PREMIER : I said I made no such might be. He said- statement, and the hon. member must take " If we next take into account the number of my denial. 1heep which at present exist in the country Mr. MILES : It was the Colonial Secre west of present extension, such as the country tary who made the statement. He said westward of Roma, :md 130 miles westward of that it was absolutely necessary to obtain the terminus of the Central Railway, and of the the loan, so that men might be kept em northern line reaching towards the Mitchell ployed. and the Gregory and in that country-if we The CoLONIAL SEcRETARY: The hon. take into account that there arc only 3,000,000 member misquotes me entirely. I gave sheep there, and as we know what the country that only as one reason amongst many. is, and that it will feed sheep, it does noc need Mr. 11nEs : I think I am perfectly cor any stretch of the imagination to believe that, rect. The hon. member gave that as a with a natural increase of only a third year by reason, and I think it was a most damag year, in five years the 3,000,000 will become ing statement to make. During this debate 12,000,000." some objection has been taken to the form Taking the 3,000,000 sheep as a fact, and of the proposed amendment. Most hon. allowing a quarter of the number for members on this side of the House were breeders, and allowing for an increase of pretty sure that they would not be able to seventy per cent., the i~crease per year will carry it, but they considerPd it was neces be 525,000. Deducting five percent. for losses sary that a division should be taken on the would bring the increase down still lower. public works policy, and the only way was Then he goes on to calculate the probable to submit a motion of this sort, so that a yield of wool, which he brings up to 15,000 division would be taken and it would be tons; but, according to my calculation, at placed on record who was and who was not the end of five years, it would only amount in favour of this policy, which I' believe to 6,056 tons. When Ministers come the Government has no intention-at least forward with statements like these, about in regard to a portion-of carrying out. It matters they do not understand, what reli will be in the recollection of hon. members ance can we have in them P I hope, for that the Colonial Treasurer in his first the hon. member's own sake, that Hansard Financial Statement wanted half-a-million will not go beyond this colony to let for the constructiOn of trunk lines, and people know that we have 1finisters said, further, that some branch lines would capable of making such miscalculations. be constructed, and he thought the Darling I£ the hon. member confined himself Downs would be the proper place to try the to what he understands he would do well. experiment. That alone is sufficient to I believe the misstatements have not been cause hon. members on this side of the made wilfully, but hon. members might be House to look with suspicion upon the led astray and think that a large revenue whole works policy of the Government. I is likely to be derived from railway traffic. go further, and say that I positively expect It has been stated as a reason why a large the Colonial Treasurer will yet come down amount of money should be borrowed that with another financial statement, showing we should not run to the money-market that he does not mean to carry out the every year for small loans-that it will give works policy stated here. I find no provi the capitalists confidence to know exactly sion here for surveys. The Minister for what amount we are likrly to want. But ·works told us that the whole amount the capitalists are not to be beguiled by us available for that purpose will be absorbed asking for one million or three millions. by surveys now authorised. Where, then, The first thing looked to bv them is what is the money to come from for the surveys is the revenue of Queensland and what is of all these extensions P On the 30th .Jnne her population. I regret very much the ther!l was £7,0Cl0, which is now reduced to statement made by the Colonial Secretary £5,000. No provision is made for surveys the other night, and I think it will do more of the new extensions unless the £3,000 damage to the credit of Queensland than per mile is intended to cover cost of sur any other statement I have heard made in veys, stations, and rolling-stock; and, if the House. He told us that it was abso so, what sort of lines will they be P It lutely necessarv we should have this loan, may be possible at that cost to include so as to keep n{en employPd on the public trumpery buildings that will require re works of the colony. If it is to go forth building before twelve months are over; to the capitalists that we are borrowing but, i£ the buildings are to be of the same money, not to open up and develop the stability as those now in course of erection, country, but to keep men employed, then I the lines cannot be made for that amount. say a more wretched statement could not These Loan Estimates have, therefore, be made. I do not believe the Premier been brought down under false pretences. means to say anything of the sort. I am glad to hear that the hon. member for The PRE::I1IER: I deny having made any Maryborough is to introduce a Bill to sanc 8 uch statement. tion a private com1oany building the Burrum J.Vh. lVIrr,E~ ; I am quite ~ure H· is in line, and I presume, therefore, the Rouse will lfanQara, · hfl relieved fro :Ill. votill.g the ~mounP !town fo~ 1300 No-Oonfirlence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Oonfirlence Motion. this work. The amounts put down by the these works to a certain point that will Government cannot possibly complete the greatly assist in opening up the western works in a suitable way. We know already interior, it would be unfair to ask them to that the Brisbane to Sandgate railway has contribute for any further extensions, con been surveyed, and that the Chief Engineer's sidering, especially, that the parties who estimate is about £2,300 above the amount will derive the benefit pay little or no rent. set down by the Premier, and we also know I am a pastoral lessee, and I have a consi that the whole line goes through private derable tract of country in the West; but 'property. The Minister for Works also I am not obliged to the Minister for Works stated that negotiations were going on with for his advocacy. It is all very well for different parties to give up the land for the hon. gentleman to advocate the cause of nothing for a line to the Upper Logan. the squatters, surrounded as he is by them He will find the moment the line is sanc -we must look at the surroundings ; but tioned that every owner will stick to his it is just possible that, some time or other, land and will not give it up for nothing, and the hon. gentleman will have to quit his I am afraid, therefore, the hongentleman will associates, and I am happy to think that be much mistaken in his calculation. I he will then change his views again. I believe, myself, in all these branch lines. consider, myself, that the squatters are like There is one here which would be the most the Colorado beetle; who desolate the important of the lot-that from Warwick country wherever they go. The squatters to Killarney. I have gone through that overstock the country and overrun it, portion of the district ; it is densely settled and when they have taken the substance with agriculturists, and the line would be out of it they will not have it any longer. a remunerative one, I believe. But if it is I do not think, therefore, that the pastoral proposed to carry it straight it will not lessees wanted the advocacy of the hon. pay. To· make it reproductive there should gentleman~ they are quite capable of-look be a deviation of five miles to get at agri ing after their own interests, and it would cultural settlement, which is out of the have been far better for the hon. gentleman track of a straight line. It should go by to have defended the gold miners : it came way of Swan's Creek and through the with bad grace from him to advocate the Warwick Agricultural Reserve, so as to cause of the pastoral lessees. He was secure the traffic and be a benefit to the grand last session, and the sessions before, parties settled in the district. This line, when he used to demand justice for the also, goes through a considerable amount of North. On his last electioneering tour he private land, but no provision for its pur stated that the North was entitled to half chase is made. I freely confess that these a-million of money; that the southern part branch lines do not require to be built as was indebted to the northern part in that substantially as the main lines. There is sum, and that he would insist upon the no necessity for high speed; and it is just amount being down on the next Loan possible that £2,500 per mile may be su:ffi Bill, to balance accounts. He has a cient to cover the cost of branch railways in pretty good amount on the Loan Estimates settled parts of the country. The difference, in one way and another. Is it to wipe off however, made in the matter of the Burrum the claims of the North ? I should like line seems to me rather singular, for I have to have an assurance on that point. I always understood that the country through might be induced to vote with the Gov which it runs is very easy for railway ernment if I thought we should hear no building. I find £3,000 put down for it, more about justice to the North. I must whilst for a line from Toowoombato High do the hon. gentleman the justice to say fields only £2,500 is set down. There that since he has become Minister for must be some mistake, for there is no com Works I have not heard any more grum parison as regards the country through bling or outcries about justice to the which the two lines pass; and my own North. Night after night he used to cry opinion is that the Highfields line will not for this justice; but since he has occupied be built under £3,500 per mile. A. great a seat on the T1;easury benches we have deal of it, also, runs through private property not heard a single word about it. It is which can only be resumed at a consider hardly necessary for me to say that if the able cost. The whole railway scheme leader of the Opposition calls for a division comprised in these Estimates seems to have he shall have my vote. I do not think been badly considered, and will commit the that he expects to carry his motion ; but country to an expenditure of which we he has a perfect right to bring it down, know little at present. Of course, we shall because the great bulk of the people have be told hereafter, when we shall be asked to more faith in him than in the leader of the vote the difference, that it was originally Government. I believe he has as much thought the amount was sufficient, but that responsibility as the Premier. The great it had been found it was not. I have not the bulk of the people expect him to see that slightest objection to main lines going into justice is done, and they believe that he is the interior; but, seeing that the agricul defending their interests by the course he tural classes have borne the share of the has taken on these Loan Estimates. The interest on the money borrowed to take leader of the Opposition is perfectly right No- Conjide1tce Motion. [19 AttGUST.j No-Confidence Motion. 1301 in bringing forward his amendment, so that -and there are not quite that number-in a division may be taken and the country that country, we have 12,000,000 at the end of may see who votes for and against it. five years when we have carried these lines 130 Mr. STEVENSON said he was sure the miles to the west, and I hope even further? leader o£ the Opposition must be very The increase of the carriage alone, independent of all the sources of revenue derived from pleased with the hon. member (Mr. Miles) carriage, would be 15,000 tons, and at present for having improved his position so much. rates that would probably amount to £45,000 The House had been very much edified by or £50,000." the hon. member. First of all they had a quotation from a certain paper to show The hon. member's statement was that the where the setting sun was, but it consisted Minister for Works' statement was 50,000 of the information that certain gentlemen tons, and that his own calculation was in Queensland and New South Wales had 6,056 tons; but this calculation was entirely taken up a certain number of square miles wrong. Taking the number of sheep at twelve of country in South Australia. The next millions, and reckoning a ton at 2,000 lbs., part of his speech was about cheap rail as the Minister for Works had done, the ways-a subject the hon. member knew produce would come to nearly 15,000 tons, nothing about. In introducing that part and made the hon. gentleman as nearly as he had told them how much he had done possible correct. Calculating the ton, on while head of the Works Office towards the other hand, to be 2,240 lbs., and improving the colony's railway svstem. allowing 2~ lbs. of wool to the sheep, He said that Mr. Ballard hadJ been the result would be exactly 13,400 tons. spending money ad libitum without any He (Mr. Stevenson) would go even further check, but that while he (Mr. Miles) was and maintain that when the lines were in office a certain check was placed extended to the point the Minister for upon that gentleman. That was the first Works desired a great deal of the wool the House had ever heard of any change would be brought down in the grease, and having taken place in Mr. Ballard's the carriage would be much more. system of railway making. He (Mr. Basing his calculation upon scoured and Stevenson) never heard of it before. The washed wool, the hon. gentleman had hon. member, when Minister for Works, placed the carriage at between £4D,OOO and told them a great deal about the discoveries £50,000, but it would be more like £70,000 he had made, and about his intentions; he or £80,000 in his (Mr. Stevenson's) belief, stated on one occasion that the Roads De even i£ the wool was sent down washed. partment could be managed with one-third Ht' knew many squatters out west who less men and less expense ; but did he ever sent their wool 200 miles in the grease to the do it P The only thing that he had ever railway station. When the line went out done in the way of retrenchment was to west the result would be that most of the take away a few railway passes from a few squatters would forward their wool in the clergymen. The third part of his speech grease, and the carriage would be more consisted of a tirade against the Minister than the Minister for W o;rks had stated. for Works, who, however, did not want The hon. member :for Darling Downs also anyone to defend him, especially against said that the policy of the Government, as the attacks of the hon. member for Darling disclosed by the Loan Estimates, was the Downs. He (Mr. Stevenson) believed that if policy ofthe Opposition, and asked what was the hon. member said anything against the the good of the country putting in one set of Minister for Works it would be likely to men to carry out the policy of another set? tell in the latter's favour. The hon. mem He (Mr. Stevenson), however, thought it ber had tried to show that what the was worse when hon. members on the Minister for Works had said was not cor Opposition benches repudiated their own rect. When the hon. member made such policy as they had done. 'rhera. was not a statement the Minister for Works was all the slightest doubt on that point, for it had the mare likely to be correct, and the hon. already been shown that the leader of the gentleman with a little explanation was Opposition tried to father a policy of pro quite right. The hon. gentleman had told gress something like the one the Govern the House that twelve million sheep would ment had enunciated. The hon. gentle produce a certain number of tons of wool. man would have even gone further, The hon. member said the Minister for for he said at Rockhampton that instead Works' statement was 50,000 tons, but of £3,000,000, £5,000,000 were wanted. what the hon. gentleman really said was- Although the charges made by the Opposi tion had been pretty well answered, he (Mr. '1 If we take into account that there are only Stevenson) would allude to a few matters 3,000,000 sheep there, and as Wtl know what the country is, and that it will feed sheep, it which had been repeated as objections. does not need any stretch of the imagination Taking the policy as a whole, he had heard to believe that, with a natural increase of only a no sound objection urged regarding it. third year by year, in five years the 3,000,000 The attack of the leader of the Opposition will become 12,000,000. Then what will be simply amounted to this-that there the result if, instead of having 3,000,000 sheep certainly was a policy, but no information 1802 No-Oonfirlence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No- Oo??:firlence Motion. regarding it-that they were asked to not possibly reach it without going 130 borrow money for something they knew miles, and two of those railways would nothing about. The policy of the Govern actually reach that good country. The ment was to borrow three millions of member for Darling Downs had told them money, which was to last a certain number a great deal about squatters out west of years-three or :five; and if they ad holding country at 3s. per square mile, but mitted that it was right and honest to go to he (Mr. Stevenson) could say that there the English market and tell them their was very little being held at that price. In requirements for the future, then it was the far West, on the Rerbert, there might utterly impossible to bring down plans and be a few blocks held at 3s. per square specifications and books of reference for all mile ; but if they took the Barcoo and the lines in the time. If these things had Thompson all through, they would :find that :first to be done, the whole policy of the most of the squatters were paying a Government would be at an end. It had pound per square mile, as he was him also been said that the Government had self, for most of their country. Another not shown how these railways were to point upon which he desired to touch be made to pay. It might be that in -although hon. members were, no doubt, some cases it would be very difficult to rather tired of it-was the Government show how railways were going to pay; but banking business. A great deal had been he might ask the hon. member for Marybo made of that by members opposite, and it rough, did he, when he" bunched" six rail was stated that the money proposed to be ways together, give the Rouse any informa borrowed would be placed in the Gover tion as to how they were to become remune ment bank. But the Premier had very rative? Was there any likelihood of the clearly stated that no large sums of money Maryborough·Gympie and the Bundaberg would be placed in any bank or banks. Mount Perry lines paying? It was all very This they all understood thoroughly; but, well for the Opposition to ask such a question, to show the fallacy of the argument or but did they, when in office, give the Op insinuation that was thrown out in regard position a chance of taking each line on its to this banking business by hon. members merits? Re did not suppose that every opposite, some of whom, he was sure, member believed that every une of the lines were now thoroughly ashamed of their on the Estimates would pay, or that every statements, he would put the case this way: member in the House would vote for them. -Supposing there was any truth in the He was not pledged to vote for all of them statement that this money was to be bor as they were on the Estimates, but he took rowed for the purpose of being placed in it that the Rouse would hear a discussion the bank, and, as another hon. member on each line, and that each would be taken insinuated, lent to sqatters to improve their on its merits. Re understood that they western country-even supposing that were were to vote as they liked and believed in the case, he would like to know what respect to each line. That was tbe Gov prudent banker would take a large deposit ernment policy as he understood it. Re for a short time or at call ?-or wltat did not understand that the policy of the prudent squatter would like money upon Government was to ram these lines down the such terms? What squatter would go to a throats of their supporters and opponents bank where he knew large sums of money without discussion. They had also been told were deposited by the Government or that the lines were going nowhere. The hon. other large capitalists for short periods and member (Mr. Miles) had said something ask for money on a loan to improve his about lines going to the setting sun. No western country P It would be absurd, doubt they were going there, to a certain because he would know perfectly well extent; at any rate, they were going in a that at any time he might be sold out westerly direction. They knew that there and ruined, whenever this money was was a large tract of country lying to the called up by the Government or these west-some of the best country in the depositors, whoever they might be. The colony-and these railways were supposed deposits banks would wish to encourage to be going out to develop its resources. would be small deposits ; with a large The understanding was that these railways number of depositors they could always should not in any way clash with each rely upon a certain amount of capital, other, but should go out and take the because while one was drawing out money legitimate traffic belonging to the part of others would be paying in. It would be a the country to which they went. A child perfect absurdity for any bank, with busi could surely understand that. The leader ness men as directors or with a prudent of the Opposition stated, when the Premier manager, to take money on such terms for said these lines would go 130 miles out west, the purpose of lending it out as had been that that would not take them to the good stated. Another matter he wished to refer country; but that was a foolish argument, to was immigration. The hon. member for because any child must know that if they Maryborough had said he regretted very went 130 miles they would be at least much that the Government had stopped 130 miles nearer that country. They could immigration, and argued that it should No-Confidence Motion. [19 AUGUST.] No-Confidence Motion. 1303 have been continued; but he (Mr. Steven thought he might say the same of hon. son) could not understand how any man of members opposite, so long as it was the prudence or common-sense could say they seal of office. should pay large sums for immigration at Mr. MACFARLANE (Ipswich) said, before the present time when they were told on speaking to the amendment of the leader of all hands, and by hon. members opposite the Opposition, which related to the works especially, that there was not enough em policy of the Government, he should like ployment for the men at present in the to say a few words about immigration. colony. What in the world would be the He believed that immigration was the good of spending a large sum for importing right kind of policy for the colony, but he men when those now here could not find did not think that this was the time to sufficient employment? But supposing carry out the works policy proposed by the the hon. member did believe in immigra present Government. He was not opposed tion, he must have a very peculiarly con to railways if it could be proved that those stituted mind if he said he did not railways would pay the interest on the cost believe the country had any right to a loan of construction. If that could be proved of this kind for public works. He (Mr. to him he should be in favour of railways Stevenson) did not see that any prinqiple anywhere and everywhere, either trunk or such as that referred to by the hon. mem branch lines ; but if it could not be proved, ber for Darling Downs-simply borrowing or if they had difficulty in believing it money to find employmenL for the people could be proved, that these trunk lines was involved in the loan. He did not would pay the interest on the cost of con believe in that principle, and it was not struction, they were perfectly justified in involved in this estimate; and if the hon. opposing them. The Treasurer and the member for Maryborough did not consider Minister for Works were sanguine that that the country was in such a state that it these trunk lines would pay as well as the could ask for a loan for the prosecution of lines at present completed, and the latter public works, he (Mr. Stevenson) could not gentleman said the country would not be for the life of him see how it was in a fit compelled to pay a single penny in the state to go on spending large sums of money way of extra taxation for the purpose for immigration. If immigration were of making them. If that could be shown continued under existing circumstances, to him he would be perfectly willing to not only would the taxpayers be taxed for support the Government in their works bringing people here, but they would be poliey; but that was the very point upon also taxed to keep them from starving when which he differed from them. The ques they got here. That would be a very tion was not "trunk versus branch lines," common-sense idea, surely ! The thing but would these trunk lines pay? He had was absurd; and the man who said he always been in favour of the western ex believed in immigration at the present tension from Roma towards the Mitchell, time when there was not work for those and believed that that line, at some future who were here, and could not see his way time, would be very likely to pay ; but, at to support a policy like this which would the present time, it was not likely that give work for those immigrants, must have they would be able to construct three a very peculiarly constituted. mind. It trunk lines-theWestern, the Central, and would be very hard to know what the the Northern ; and, seeing that he did not other side of the House did believe in. approve of the construction of the whole of Since he had been in the House they had these linrs, he should waive his opinion agitated a great many things. First with reference to the extension of the of all they went in for retrenchment ; \Vestern line. Even if it could be proved then for six railways; then they said,they that one of the western extensions-either were prepared to go even further than the the Central or Western-would pay, he present Premier, and instead of a three did not think it could be proved that they million loan would go in for five millions ; would both pay. The hon. member for and now they objected to this loan, and N ormanby (Mr. Stevenson) had stated they did so, he believed, simply because that it was not the intention that these they had not the spending of it. He lines should clash or interfere with each believed the leader of the Opposition did other's traffic; but he had been given to not wish to take office at present, but it was understand that the Western and Central very well known that if he had any chance lines were already dashing and competing of coming into power the hon. member for for the same traffic. Maryborough would not be the free lance HoN. MEMBERs on the Government he was at present. That hon. member benches : No, no. reminded him (and with him he wcmld Mr. MACFARLANE said he was glad to include several hon. members on his side hear it was not so, but he had been informed of the House) of what Dr. Norman McLeod from a very good source that the Central once said of Beaconsfield, then Disraeli line was now taking some of the traffic pre he said he was a fine bit of wax, ready viously taken by the Western line. But to take the impression of any seal. He even supposing it could be proved that one 1304 No-Oo?ifidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No- Confidence Moti01L. line would pay, he did not think it could easily increased by at least ten times, be proved that both would pay ; and, there or to 640,000 tons. In reference to this fore, although he was in favour of one line matter the Premier mentioned a night or going out west, he did not see his way to two ago in the House, that it was not so support the three. The Treasurer, in re much from the want of railway communi plying to the leader of the Opposition, cation that coal-mining in "\V est Moreton mentioned the fact that at the present time did not pay, as it was from the quality of there were between 45,000 and 50,000 male the coal; but he (Mr. Macfarlane) could adults in the colony, 5,000 of whom were state that the quality of the coal from the directly employed and other 5,000 indi mines in that district was a great deal rectly employed by the Government; in better than many of them had been led to other words, that one-fifth of the adult believe. They often found that anything male inhabitants were directly or indirectly that was very near to them or was in connected with the Government, leaving common use was not looked upon as of only 40,000 ; and for this reason-that the great value. There was an old 11roverb population was so small-he could not see that a prophet was not honoured in his own his way to encourage the construction of country, and he thought that was perfectly these trunk lines. Was it possible for true in reference to the coal in this 40,000 adults, representing about five times district. Because it was so near to them that number in population, were able to and they l1ad been using other coal for gas undertake the construction of trunk lines making purposes this coal had been such a great distance at payable rates? looked upon lightly and as o£ little value, He could not see it at all; and, therefore, when, in reality, if it had the chance of he thought that until they had, by being taken to a >essel from the pit-head immigration, increased the population of by railway transit, it would compare the colony, it would not be wise to favourably with any of the Newcastle coal. sanction the construction of so many lines. By the present mode of transit it was 10 For the reasons that he could not support knocked about that when it got to market the trunk lines he would support the it was very much broken; but if it arrived branch lines-namely, that in the settled in a sound state-such as when it left the districts of the colony they had population. pit-head, he believed it would bring quite Where they had people there they would as much as Newcastle coal. Not long ago, find traffic not only from the people being he and the hon. member for Stanley (lVIr. settled there, but also from the occupations O'Sullivan) visited one of the coal-pits in in which they were engaged. Many of the West More ton district, where they saw them were engaged in agricultural pur lumps of coal so large that they could not suits, and the produce they brought to lift them; and if that coal could be brought market would make these branch lines pay down to the shipping by rail, it would be able. Of course, it was just possible that quite as good and sound as any coal he the whole of the branch lines in the policy had seen in the old country. He believed of the Government might not be payable, that it was simply from the want of rail but two or three would be payable ; for way communication that the produce of instance, those to Fassifern and Mount coal in the "\V est Moreton district was not Esk. I£ any of the branch lines would doubled ten, or perhaps twenty, times over. pay these two would, because these por He might mention that not long ago a mer tions of the colony were more densely chant in Brisbane sent to Ipswich to know populated than any others that' he was if the coal proprietors could supply a ship aware of. He noticed, however, that there that was about leaving the port, with coal. was no mention made of one branch line The reply was that they could do so, but which he believed would pay better than that it was a question of time. It turned even the two he had referred to-that was out, however, that the ship would have to the line from Oxley to South Brisbane. sail in about ten days, and, the weather It was a very short line indeed, and the being broken at the time, it was found trade was aheady there for the purpose of impossible to supply her with coal, and she making it pay. Even at the present time, had to go away in ballast. Now, had this if that line were constructed it would pay line been in existence that coal would have the interest on the cost of construction, be been sent down and the whole colony would cause the traffic of the line from coal have benefited by it, simply from the fact alone would go a very long way indeed that there would be an increase of popula towards making that line a payable one. tion and the consumption of dutiable goods In the evidence taken before the railway by these persons would pay for the con commission in reference to that line, some struction of the line in a few years, even if time ago, it was stated that the production of the line itself did not pay any interest. coal in the western district was about 64,000 He thought, therefore, that this branch line, tons per annum, and without exaggera above all others mentioned, ought to take tion he thought he might safely say that, if first place in the programme of the Govern they had a line to deep-water on the Bris ment works policy. Just to show that the bane River, that product might be very coal in that district was not so bad as repre- No-Oonfidenee Motion. [19 AUGUST.] No- Confidence Motion. 1305 aented, he would refer to the fact, which had could not agree altogether with the remarks been already referred to by the hon. mem made by hon. members on his side of the ber for Northern Downs (Mr. Thorn), that House who objected to the proposed Loan the Ipswich Gas Company was using coal Estimates because no data, particulars, raised in that district. When that gas plans and specifications of the railway had company co=enced operations they were been laid on the table. Even had those under the impression that the local coal plans, &c., been laid on the table, he should would not answer for the purpose of gas have protested against the extension of making, and they accordingly sent to New trunk lines of railway because he was castle for coal, but when that supply was convinced that they would not prove repro exhausted they thought they would try ductive, and he was prepared to oppose any the local coal, and they found that it was public works that would not be repro better than even Newcastle coal for making ductive. The hon. Minister for Works gas. That had been found out by actual had told them over and over again that experience, and the Brisbane Gas Com the rail ways in the settled districts did pany, which had for a very long time been not pay, and that there was a falling using Newcastle coal, were now giving off in the receipts notwithstanding Ipswich coal a fair trial, and he predicted the reduction in the number of trains that if it had a fair trial it would be found running and the increase of fares. He quite as good, if not superior to what that (Mr. Rates) had himself noticed a falling company had been using in the past. He off week after week; but, if that was the thought for these reasons they should do case as regarded lines in the settled dis all they could to encourage the coal traffic tricts, how could railways be expected to of VV est Moreton. With reference to this pay in the unsettled districts where one railway policy of the Government, he should month's trains would suffice to bring down like to ask-was it an afterthought? He all the wool and hides and to take up all the thought it must be an afterthought, be rations and stores, and during the other cause, if they had had in view coming eleven months a large staff of men and down to the House with a works policy of gangers, to keep the line in order, would this kind, he could not for the life of him have to be employed P They had been told see how they could have exercised that by the Premier that a sudden stoppage of arbitrary decision in reference to the public works would bring about a shock that dismissals from the Ipswich workshops. would prove most disastrous to the colony; If they had had this works policy in view but he would ask whether they were to at that time, he believed that they perpetuate a system of non-paying works would never have acted in the way for the purpose of keeping a lot of men em they did in regard to those dismissals. ployed who were mere birds of passage, and It appeared to him that at the time of those who merely stopped to pick up any crumbs dismissals they had no idea whatever of they might see falling about? He believed proposing to the colony such a public works that instead of increasing our expen policy as that now before the House. He diture with a decreasing population, quite agreed with their branch railway what the colony really wanted was rest policy, and he hoped it would be carried and breathing time. They had been out ; but he could not see how, with such over-legislating for the country; but he a small population, the colony would be with his great faith in the resources of the able to make the trunk lines payable. It colony believed that everything would was for those reasons he should support righten itsel£ in time. What they should the motion of the hon. leader of the Oppo do first was to look to the settled districts sition. There were several large sums on and put them in order, and then look to the Loan Estimates that would be of an the extensions to the west. He did not, unproductive nature; but still he approved for one, think the squatters out west would of some of them-such, for instance, as the thank the Government for giving them improvement of the Brisbane River, as railways, but would rather have leases that must go hand in hand with any exten given to them, so that they would be able sion of the railway for the development of to go to their bankers with something the coal traffic. He could not give his con tangible in their hands. The Premier told sent to some of the public buildings he the House that he expected a large revenue saw on the list, as they absorbed too large from the lands through which these exten a sum of money which might be better sions passed; but if they were to refer back spent. Had the loun policy of the Govern to the time when the lands in the Western ment been for one-half of the amount Railway Reserves were put up to auction proposed it would have been amply suffi they would find that there were no bidders cient for all purposes at the present time. for those lands, except the holders of the He would not say more than that he stations or their representatives. If the approved of that part of the policy which present run-holders had better leases more provided for branch railways. rent could be expected from them, and Mr. KATEB said that he had carefully they could not object to pay more if they reviewed the speeches which had been had leases for, say, twenty-one years. It made during the present debate, and he must be borne in mind tha.t these pro- 1306 No-Confidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Confidence Motzon. posed trunk lines could not be compared was already an excellent road between the with those from Sydney or Melbourne, two places-in fact, if they had such a good as they went from one centre to another, road on the Darling Downs they should whilst these at the end of 130 miles never think of asking for any railway. With might land in a swamp. In regard to regard to £50,000 put down for a branch the branch lines, he considered money line from Warwick to Killarney, it was put would be well spent on them, and he down as being twenty miles ; but that should support them accordingly. 1'he was as the crow flies, and went through hon. member for Burnett told them that very inferior country ; the line ought to the chief reason for his supporting the pre take a crescent form through the fertile sent Government was that they 'had not valleys of Farm, Swan, and Freestone come down with any proposition for addi Creeks, to be of any benefit to the State tional taxation; but he (Mr. Rates) wished as well as to the farmers and settlers in to know whether the appropriation of the that rich locality. The next item was Railway Reserve Fund was not additional £249,000 for the improvement of har taxation, or whether the Divisional Boards bours and rivers. He considered that the Bill would not lead to additional taxation money for that work should come out of under a different name? At present they had revenue ; and had the Premier used the to pay £476,000 in the shape of interest upon pruning-knife as he promised, there would their loans, and if they borrowed another have been a good deal saved sufficient to £3,000,000 that would bring it up to have caiTied out some of the improvements £600,000, and surely that would lead to addi of the harbours and rivers. The next items tional taxation? Russia in its present state were £62,650forroads and bridges, £100,000 of insolvency would be in almost a better to meet the first expenditure of road boards, position. Did the Premier think that if he and £200,000 loans to local boards. With went into the market now he would be able regard to the last, as that sum was to bear to raise a loan at something like 92 or 93? interest at five per cent., no objection could He did not think the hon. gentleman would be raised against it. Coming to the item of be able to do so, as bankers and people at buildings, for which a sum of £80,000 home well knew that our debt was some was put down, he noticed the whole of thing like £11,000,000, and that our popu the Darling Downs was not at all well lation was decreasing. Thus there would looked after, with the exception of £1,500 be a great sacrifice if the hon. gentleman that was put down for the Dalby Hos went in for a loan such as he proposed at pital as a sop to that electorate. He next the present time. Another reason was that came to the sum of £70,000, which was put their 4 per cent. debentures were quoted at down for electric telegraph construction; something like 92, whilst the debentures and in regard to that he considered that they of their neighbours stood at from 95 to 96 ; would be able to get on without many for that reason it behoved the Government of the extensions it was proposed io make to be very cautious how they went into for some years to come. They had been the market. Coming to the Loan Estimates, told that the Postmaster-General had been he saw that there was £100,000 put down for obliged to shut up a great many telegraph immigration. Since Separation they had offices in the settled districts ; and it spent £1,450,000 on immigration alone, and should be remembered that all the ex for that sum they had brought in a lot of tensions they now proposed would render people from Europe ; but instead of re necessary the employment of a large num maining here they had left the colony; and ber of additional officers. With regard to the therefore, unless there was a re-organization £10,000 that was put down for the defences of the immigration system, he should be in of the colony, there was no necessity what favour of putting nothing down for that ever for such an expenditure. There was no purpose at present: it would be far better probability of the colony being invaded, to utilise the £100,000 proposed to re-pur especially as the l'tussians at the present chase the magnificent estates on the time had quite enough to do to look after Darling Downs, and invite people from the Nihilists. He had put together a few the neighbouring col ones to come and settle items which he considered should con upon them. Then there was a sum of stitute the public works to be carried on by £418,000 put down for the completion of means of loan, and for that he had set railways already in course of construction: down a sum of £1,315,000. That would in of course, the country being committed to clude everything; but if the branch lines those works, it was necessary to raise were omitted the sum would be reduced to that money by loan. Then there was a £899,000. If the Premier could see his sum of £20,100 for re-construction of the way clear to reduce his loan to that he Central Railway, and for buildings and would give him his support, but, if not, he sidings for the Southern and vV estern should fail in his duty to his constituents Railway. To that item he had no objec were he not to support the motion of the tion. But with regard to the sum of hon. leader of the Opposition. £52,000 for a line from Brisbane to Sand· Mr. HILL said he had not had the gate, which was next on the list, he must advantage of being present at the com say that it was not at all wanted, as there mencement of the debate, but he had very No-Oo?ifidence Motion. [19 AUGUST.] No· Confidence Motion. 1301 carefully read the reports of it since his of the Government doing that which it was return to Brisbane; and he must say that well known it was necessary for them to the conclusion he had come to was this do. The leader of the Opposition, in that he had never seen a weaker attack, and referring to the 130 miles extension of never one more strongly repelled and every the trunk lines, said that they would argument more thoroughly rebutted. He lead to nowhere ; but he (Mr. Hill) was in great hopes from the attack having would reply that these extensions would been made that it might clear the atmo bring the railway on to the verge of good sphere, and smooth the way for making the country. He did not mean to say that he rest of the session more pleasant to both was wholly in favour of the loan policy sides of the House and more beneficial to brought forward by the Government-in the country, and also that it would have fact, it would be very hard for any Govern the effect of causing less obstruction than ment to bring forward a loan policy which had hitherto been practiced by hon. mem would suit everyone ; but there was one bers on the oppositE' side of the House. He thing which he endorsed, and that was the could not but think from the half-hearted policy for the extension of the trunk way in which the leader of the Opposition lines. He would show how those lines brought forward his attack on the Govern would be reproductive and would pay. ment that the hon. gentleman had been That had been already shown, but he forced on to such a course by his followers. wanted to have his say on the subject. He would take one paragraph in the hon. With regard to the exception taken by the gentleman's speech, in which he said- leader of the Opposition to the Char· " If I am defeated on this motion, it will be ters Towers extension, he (Mr. Hill) con because a sufficient number of members of the tended that if the extension went - as House prefer to keep the present occupants of was stated-towards the setting sun, it the Treasury benches in their places, rather than went in the very best direction, as it would condemn a policy which in their hearts they do go through the very best country, and the not a pprove of." country which could be most easil;Y tapped. He saw a corollary to that which the hon. He was aware that such an extensiOn might gentleman might have comidered when he not be palatable to the Brisbane people, made that speech-namely, that if the but seeing that Brisbane had the undoubted members of the Government side of the advantage of being the seat of legislation, House did not keep the present Ministry and that all her wants were known and in their places, but turned them out, they attended to, it was very shortsighted would have to put in another Ministry. policy for her to attempt to divert But where were they to get another Min a trade which must, like water, find istry from ? The late Ministry or their its own legitimate channel. It did not party had, as had bf!en said that evening matter whether the greatest part of the by the hon. member for Mackay, gone trade would be at Brisbane, Rockhampton, through twenty-three changes altogether. Townsv-ille, or Somerset, so long as the They had failed in their administration. money collected at those places flowed into They had come in with a full Treasury, the Treasury at Brisbane, and thence was re had had the best times to work through, distributed through the whole of the colony. and then left office with an empty Trea Looking at the component parts of the surv, and in debt. Hon. members had late Ministry and their supporters, he seen that before, with a supposed Liberal could not wonder such was the case. When Ministry, when the so-called squatter Min· they vacated the Treasury benches there istry under the present Colonial Secretary were no less than three Brisbane lawyers took office eight or nine years ago. 'Jlhe in the Ministry. Queen street was repre· Treasury was then empty and enrything sented by the Colonial Treasurer, and for disorganised, but when that hon. gentle an outside representative they had the hon. man was turned out of office he left to member for the Logan. The Ministry now the Opposition a clean sheet and a good in power was, on the other hand, toler balance to work upon. But what was the ably representative of !i'.ll parts of the result? Why, the so-called Liberal Gov colony, and the colony's industries were ernment not only filled every office, but also fairly represented in it. They had created new offices where they were not been sneered at as being a squatting wanted, and altogether plunged the country J\'[inistry, because two gentlemen connected into a hopeless muddle and extravagance. with pastoral pursuits were members Then, when the present :Ministry took of it ; but who in the House did not office they had the unenTiable and painful really and honestly consider that the task of extricating the country from the squatters had as good a right, at all ruinous position in which it was left by events, to a share in the legislation of their predecessors and to begin lopping off the colony as the lawyers? He would all unnecessary expenses, and the result rather see a Ministry composed of any was that a party cry was raised by the other material - merchants, squatters, Opposition against the reductions that were farmers, anything but lawyers ; and when made, and obstruction was put in the way a Ministry was reduced to putting threo 1308 No-Confidence Motion. t.A.SSE:M:BLY.] No-Oon.firlence Motion. lawyers on the Treasury benches it was The hon. member did not refer to it with quite time it should be turned out : the such zeal as he had noticed on previous legal element was not entitled to such occasions. The Railway Reserves Act an undue amount of representation. But was about the only piece of legislation the whole policy was ro draw everything to which emanated from the Opposition when Brisbane-Brisbane was to be centralized. they were in power, and as a piece of legis The transcontinental railway which they lation it was one which he (Mr. Hill) con fostered, and under the plea of which the demned utterly, for it was founded upon extension to Roma was first made, was for principles of repudiation. If any private the purpose of benefiting Brisbane, without firm or mercantile institution had taken any consideration for the interests of the such a foul and base advantage of a clause northern or western districts. The hon. in a lease it would be held up to publie member for Maryborough, referring to the odium, and the public would be very shy ;ote of no confidence, said he would admit of doing business with it again. If it was that on his side of the House they were passed on the principle of doing evil that no.t strong enough to form a Government, good might come, very little good had re and that his hon. friend, the leader of the sulted from it. Its main result had been Opposition, had no wish to take office. He to shut up the town of Roma. What (Mr. Hill) should think not. But why did should be a prosperous and rising township, he bring forward this motion P Was it to surrounded by a yeoman population, was make confusion worse confounded P His now hemmed in by a wealthy company. (Mr. Griffith's) former colleague, the The hon. member for Mitchell predfuted member for Maryborough, had had a great when the Bill was first introduced that opportunity of forming an opinion about such would be the case, saying that any his supporters and the men around man with money in his pocket could him, and yet he admitted that the ma buy 10,000 acres of land there, picking out terials for forming a Government. did the eyes of the country at 10s. an acre not exist on that side of the House. adding that the authors of the measure It was very complimentary to his asso had the impudence to pretend to be the ciates to say so, and it must be taken for poor men's friends. The reRult then pre granted that the opinion was a pretty cor dicted had happened, and the land was now rect one. Supposing the leader of the locked up. 'l'he hon. member for Mary Opposition did carry this vote, in what borough said that if thPse liabilities must position would he find himself P He would be incurred they must from the public be like Actreon-torn to pieces by his own estate and landed property obtain the dogs-dozens of them all seeking office. means of paying the interest on the in He had a kaleidoscopic Ministry last creased expenditure involved, and a few year,' constantly changing its phases: sentences further on plainly intimated his but there was one focus upon which that preference for a land-tax. A land-tax had kaleidoscope was always centred, and that no terrors for him (Mr. Hill). Although focus was Brisbane. There were three solely engaged in pastoral pursuits, he yet, very necessary qualities for Ministers like the Colonial Secretary, did not own an ability, knowledge, and honesty. There acre of land in Queensland, and did not were plenty of gentlemen on the Opposition know that he ever should. He was not side of the House who, he (Mr. Hill) possessed with an earth-hunger, and, when guaranteed, had plenty of ability, and could the time came for him to buy his run., if he express their thoughts in elegant and - was not in a position to do so he should be good language : there were fewer of quite content to take up his bed and walk ·them who had any real knowledge of further west. There was plenty of room what they were legislating about. Their there, and those railways would facilitate legislation did not go beyond the length his making a graceful exit. The policy as of the railway line, · and if it was shadowed forth by the hon. member for only to extend their knowledge it would be Maryborough was the most short-sighted advisable to push the trunk lines' out. If one which any Government, even in these they had real knowledge of the country times, could hint at. When the standard and its resources they would not be so wealth of the colony was disposable in short-sighted in their policy of trying to unlimited quantities, it was surely most concentrate everything into Brisbane. unstatesmanlike to hold such a threat over Brisbane might be a great capital, and he the head~ of those who were possibly sincerely hoped in future years would be contemplating buying their land, especially the capital of a.great nation, but let it be at so early a stage of the colony's history. so on fair and l~gitimate grounds. Let it The note of warning had already been be contented with its own legitimate por sounded in Victoria, and they all knew tion of the trade, and with the knowledge what had been the effect of the land-tax that every shilling of revenue collected in there, and that when an unscrupulous Gov7 the colony must pass through its coffers. ernment wished to gain popularity they The hon. member for Maryborough also had only to threaten to put on another turn referred to the .·Railwav Reserres Act. of the screw; and they might put on so No-Oonfirlence Motion. [19 AuGusT.] No-Oonfirlence Motion. 1309 many as to tax the land to its full annual the W arrego "districts. The usual Oppo value. Could it be wondered at, that with sition sneers had been made at the close such a tax staring them in the face, capital population of those districts, consisting of ists should be rather shy of investing in land sheep and kanak as ; but sheep were an -that they should hesitate before placing admirable thing for the colony, and every themselves, bound hand and foot, in the power year the five or six million sheep in the of any possible Government that might be colony brought in about a million sterling formed in these colonies ? The man who in from England, which was distributed vested his money in corner allotments or bank amongst every class of the community. It shares was safe ; he was either not taxed would be far better for the colony if they or he could turn his property into money had, as they e~tsily might have, twenty quickly, while the man who locked up his five or thirty millions of sheep, instead of money in land handed himself over in the six millions. Sheep paved the way for most confiding manner to the tender mercies civilisation ; they did not, as the hon. mem of the Government. A land-tax he con· ber (.Mr. Miles) said,- like the Colorado sidered an odious infliction, and the mere beetle, leave a wilderness behind them. mention of it by an ex-Premier was most There were flourishing towns in New injudicious and likely to be detrimental to South Wales, such as W agga W agga a rising colony whose chief wealth lay in and Albury, which he had recently her land. 'l'he constant cry of the Opposi visited, which were mainly supported tion throughout the debate had been," How by the sheep stations in their neighbour are you going to pay the interest on this hood. Ho looked upon the pastoral industry loan?" He (Mr. Hill) would point out one as the mainstay of the colony, and follow way in which that could be done. In his ing on that came mining. In almost every own districts alone, North and South instance the squatterwent fir~t, and the miner Gregory, thOJre was au area of 80,000,000 followed. He was not inimical to farmers, acres of land, which last year brought in but he considered the agricultural interests a rental of £15,383, which at five per cent. entirely subsidiary. It was to the advan represented a capital of £307,660. I£ a tage of the farmers to push forward the capital value of 1s. per aere were estab pastoral and mining industries as much lished upon that land it would represent a as possible, because on them depended value of £4,000,000, representing at 5 per the.ir . sole market. What with the un ·cent. £200,000 per annum, instead of certainty of the climate and the distance £15,383 as at present. The hon. member of the best farming lands froin :aorts, for Darling Downs had referred in what directly production exceeded consumption he considered a most contemptible manner the farmers would suffer very great hard to the excessively low rentals paid by the ships and misery. Every man could not squatters in those districts. The ensuing live under his own vine and eat his own 30th September would show that not only pumpkins, if our farmers had to compete with were his constituents paying full value for other colonies, such as New Zealand and their country, but that they would throw SouthAustraliain the London market,forthe up a considerable amount of it, as it was only staple commodities they could produce. not worth the mere peppercorn rent they With regard to the pastoral interest, he were now paying. He had stated this on would take the opportunity of thanking the a former occasion, and further information Minister for vV orks for his splendid de had convinced him as to its correctness. The fence of the squattin!l' community. The rental quoted just now was that paid on the hon. member for Darling Downs (Mr. 30th September, 1878; but the rental due Miles) made an attack upon that hon, gen from those districts during the current tleman for having done so; and the hon. year was £22,19H. Even that was a small member for Enoggera (Mr. :Hutledge) re rental for so large an acreage, but it ferred to the squatters as though they were showed that even under existing circum not able to defend themselves. That defence stances those runs were contributing in a came with an excellent grace and with constantly progressive rate towards the double force from a man who was not him general revenue. He had mentioned the self a squatter, and who had once con value of ls. per acre being established demned them wholesale. He trusted the upon those vast tracts of magnificent example would be followed, and that other country, but he believed that, taking it all hon. members would be converted to a in all-the good with the bad-and there different view of the squatters from that was very little bad, it would represent a they had previously held. The squatters value of 5s. per acre, at which it could be had been more sinned against than sinning. rapidly alienated if access were given Some squatters in the early days had, to it; and would then return to the no doubt, erred and showed a greed general revenue an income on a capital for land; but they had been sufficiently value of £20,000,000. That was only from punished, and the whole class should not the district of the Gregory, and did still be branded as almost worse than not take into account the enhanced value felons. If the occupation was such a of the land in the Mitchell, the Burke, and pleasant, rosy one, and if the robbery :IT9m 1310 No-Conftrlenoe Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Conftrlence Motion. the country was such that squatters could when smitten on one cheek, were going to make gigantic fortunes by doing nothing, turn to the smiter the other : if he did he hon. members who inveighed against them was very much mistaken. They had thP should just try their hands and see how power to reply, and they should cultivate they would like it. .An hon. member (Mr. it. They were not going to be brow-beaten Rutledge) in his speech alluded to the by members of the Opposition, but should Ipswich workshops' dismissals as not in repel any attempt of the kind; and there accordanee with the professed intentions of fore it would be a very good thing if both the Government to carry on a works policy sides mutually agreed to abstain altogethPr with vigour, and it had also been said that from personalitil's. The same hon. mem to compare a private financial transaction ber made an allusion not calculated to with a public one was unfair. He consi provoke amiable or good feelings when he dered that in both cases a very fair com rrferred to close settlement as meaning parison might be instituted between private settlement of kanakas and sheep. The hon. business and the business of a Govern member knew well enough that kanakas had ment. In his own line he had seen been done away with entirely-that the law a station encumbered with a lot of did not permit them to exist any longer useless men and loafers. Presently a in that district. Without wishing to enter change came o'er the spirit of the upon the whole question, he might say, as an dream. Another manager came in, and employPr of them at one time, that they without any special spirit of retrench were introduced in a time of very great ment discharged the men right and left need. He and many others in a similar with a view to reorganisation. More men position would have been entirely ruined were put on, and the station was turned had it not been for their introduction then, into a thriving and profitable one in a very because at that time settlement had pro short time. No doubt, the Public Works gressed faster than any possible scheme of Office as well as other offices were found immigration could supply the necessary to be overloaded with useless men, and it labour, and the Crown lessees were com required a man having strength of will and pelled to have recourse to that kind of the courage of his opinions to clear them, labour. Settlement was not now progres as had been done. It was therefore un sing so fast, and that necessity had ceased fair to use that as a party cry to raise ill to axist with him; it ceased to exist eight feelings. With regard to the loan vote, or nine years ago, and since then he had the Government had used a wise discretion never employed kanakas. Considering as in showing what they wanted, and stating he did that he owed a debt of gratitude to that they proposed to spread the loan over kanakas, he did not care to hear them a period of three years. vVere he (Mr. abused or spoken of in slighting tPrms. Hill) about to put a large tract of country -with regard to the general policy of the under sheep and found he had not Government, he was prepared to give his the necessary means he should probably unflinching adherence. There might be go to a banker for assistance. If he some minor item of which he did ;not then went with a scheme and asked for thoroughly approve, but those items should an overdraft to carry him on till have rendered the policy more reconcil next year, and, getting that concession, able and more palatable to the members of went aga:in year after year with the same the Opposition-at least, if they had spoken request, he should expect to have the screw what they believed to be true from their put on, as it probably would be. But if seats in the House. he went and showed a comprehensive Mr. PaTERSO~ said the hon. member who scheme by which a certain amount of had just sat down had struck a chord which mone;y would enable him to tide over a they could all understand when he said certam number of years, and result in a that certain items in the Government pro profitable business-as the Government iu posals on loan account should meet the the case of the management of the country approval of me m hers of the Opposition. had done-there would be a reasonable He (Mr. Paterson) believed that some of expectation of his getting the money on those items were put on with the view of good terms. The hon. member for \Vide meeting their approval and the approval Bay (Mr. Bailey) made an allusion to of their constituents, and not became recriminations and personalities which had the Government themselves thoroughly been made in the House. No one had regret approved of them. The words of the ted their introduction into debate more than amendment now under discussion were, he had-ever since they were introduced in "The proposals of the Government, in the first instance by the leader of the relation to the construction of public Opposition. The hon. member seems works, are unsatisfactory to this House." to give the members on that (Ministerial) The debate, he considered, would do side the advice that they were to be considerable good-it would define parties the attacked party but not the attack more and more, and, although some ing. But sur@ly neither he nor anyone hon. members might think the time ~l~e POJ:J.ld f,lx::pect t4tl.t tlwse hon. membel's, w~sted, the disGv.ssiou, ooul'l uot but l:l~ No-Oonjldence Motion. [19 AuGUST.] No-Oonjldence Motion. 1311 advantageous to the country in general cally sincere in seeking for the items and data and the constituencies in particular. The which common-sense men would require. remarks he should make would not be It could not, also, be but noticed that the spoken from what might be called an ultra railway policy the House was asked to party point of view. In anything he sanction was not the railway policy of a might say on the different phases of the few months ago. There was a difference question, it would be understood that he -and he was sorry to say it-of some did so from his own conviction and from thing like £330,000 on the trunk lines, his personal knowledge; and that he was and in other respects there was an altera not guided to any great extent, if at all, by tion. The policy :first enunciated was more what what was termed special pn,rtisanship. preferable to him; but from the time it He held that concurrently with the Loan was :first disclosed until now a fresh Estimates the Government should have scheme had been conceived, and after a introduced a measure by which the country very short period of gestation the Gov should have been guaranteed that, if there ernment brought forth a brood of branch were any deficiency in the payment of in lines which the country generally did terest after the working expenses of the pro not approve of. They had excluded posed trunk and branch lines had been met, from their programme the branch lines in such deficiency would come from a special the immediate vicinity of Brisbane that source, and not from the general revenue. had been looked for and desired, and 'l'hat was the real point at issue. The had included lines which nobody had financial basis of the proposal was the eyer heard of until the Estimates were weak point of the Government structure, produced. And this policy had been and he should be able to prove that he had framed with a view of meeting the farm sufficient ground for making that state ing constituencies, the Premier having ment. There was also a very reprehensible charged the Opposition, the other evening, dearth of particularity respecting the rail with having raised the question of branch way proposals of the Goycrnment. They lines simply for the purpose of setting the did not say, for instance, whore the Cen farmers against the squatters. He did not tral line was to run ultimately, and not believe it was ever raised; there never was one of the :J\'[inisters ga Ye any intimation any special information given by the Oppo as to the direction in which the Charters sition members in the new House as to Towers line would travel. Hon. mem what branch lines should be constructed ; bers, howeTer, were told, through an in but they knew that one member of the terjection, that the three trunk lines were :Ministry was not in favour of branch lines. going towards the setting sun. But were Some time ago that member placed the they going north-west or south-west? In Charters Towers line on a par with the the summer time the sun sets south of Bundaberg line. It was too bad of the west, and in the winter time north of Government to ask the House to swallow a west, and it was of very great importance pill part of which was not believed in by a to his constituents whether the Charters member of the Cabinet. The Postmaster Towers line was to be projected towards General was that member. He might as the setting place of the summer sun or the well here say that in his candidature winter sun. The same dearth of particu it was repeatedly asserted that the larity was evinced in respect to branch Liberal party were going to plunge the lines. Hon. members had no data upon country into a needless expenditure which which to form a judgment-they had not. would bring ruin upon it; that they even the information they would look were only going to construct branch lines for as private individuals- namely, out of loan and stop the construction of particulars as to estimated traffic, the main lines, unless there was a guarantee particular route sketched out, the esti as to the payment of the interest. The mated cost of the line and of the land. Liberal party were spoken of as the The Government might even have given an "branch-line" party, and the present Gov indication of the population in the branch ernment party were called the " trunk-line" line districts, and the products which were party. In the Rockhampton Bulletin of grown in the vicinity of the contemplated November 8, .Mr. Buzacott was reported routes. In the name of common-sense, as having said, at his election meeting, were they not entitled to as much informa that "he held that unless borrowed money tion as a private company _had to supply was spent on reproductive works the in when they asked the pubhc to take up evitable result would be increased taxa shares in their venture?-but the House was tion." That was a noble sentiment which asked, and it was the burden of the whole he, as one of the Opposition, repeated song of Ministers in advocating the loan, to that evening. They were not in favour believe in their sincerity and earnestness. of the expenditure of loans on unpro. He did so, but he asked hon. members op ductive works, and he was sorry the posite to allow the same amount of sin Government had not disclosed anything cerity and earnestness as they claimed for more than their belief that the land t,hem~e!vr~. The OppositiOll were em:):lha,ti. 2alt1s would cover the intere~t. Thfl Rous~ 1312 No-Confidence Motion.· [ASSEMBLY.] No- Confidence Motion. was entitled to something more than asser worthless ; it would commit the country to tion. He believed that the Cook gold· a small length of twelve or twenty miles fields would carry a population of 50,000- which would be of no use. It was alwa.ys the hon. member for Cook went even understood that the branch to Clermont further not long ago-but would any man would receive full sanction; it was only speculate on the mere statement of this sixty-five miles long, and he knew that the belief P :M:r. :Buzacott went on to say that inhabitants of Clermont and Copperfield "he was in favour of liberal expenditure would be much disappointed and disgusted on public works, especially on great trunk at finding' such a small sum as £50,000 set lines," and "as railway extension was a down as an instalment. It would have matter of such consequence, and involving been better for the Government to have so enormous an expenditure, it was impera left it out altogether, or else have made tive that the system under which it was car ample provision for the whole length of ried out should be financially souncl." Had line, as they might very well have done. they the figures which were necessary to en This provision was not in consonance able them to judge? Mr. :Buzacott next said with what he· must say was not an that" long lines of railway always paid, but unfair treatment of the Central district. short lines did not pay; " and yet a part of The Government had given fair con the Ministerial scheme was branch lines. sideration to the wants of the • Cen They had brought in a bunch of ten lines, tral district, with the exception of the of which the Postmaster-General believed Clermont branch. He agreed with ·the that six would not pay. Then Mr. Buza Minister for Works' statement, that the cott said-and this was the point-that" he Loan Estimates did not go far enough, · thought the 'Government would not be and, with all respect to members sitting on justified in accepting tenders for the Bunda the Opposition benches, and on the Gov berg and Charters Towers lines, and hoped ernment benches also, he was bound to say they would not do so, however much such that there should have been provision for a course might affect them during elections. a longer extension of the Central main line ; He sincerely trusted that at a time like this it should have gone to the Thompson, and they would subordinate the interests of justnowtherewas every inducement to adopt their party to regard for the interests of that extension in consequence of the cheap the colony." Did the Premier say that the rate at which steel rails could be supplied; English of that was not that the Post and in view of these circumstances he had master-General did not believe in short had every hope that the Government would lines, and that he trusted the Government have gone on to the Thompson River, which would follow out what he had stated, was only seventy miles further. When which was that it would not be to the speaking on this point, he might as well general interest of the country if the Gov say he was surprised to find, the other ernment accepted tenders for the Bunda evening, that . an ex-Premier- the hon. berg and Charters Towers lines ? Did he member for Maryborough-displayed a not speak of them in the same breath? The want of knowledge respecting railway House knew very well that the Bundaberg surveys in the Central district ; and, as line was stigmatised as a blot in the bunch, Ministers had not vouchsafed much in and here they had the Postmaster-General formation on the subject, he thought it speaking of the Charters Towers railway his duty to point out that the Ministry as a twin line to it. In reply to a question, were in an excellent position to go on :M:r. Buzacott also said "that if returned with the works there. They had the ful he would advocate the delay of all public lest information. In the year 1874, Mr. works of a non-reproductive character." Willoughby Hannam, surveying engineer, Had he since discovered that the Charters reported that he had found certain gaps in Towers line would pay, or had h6l know the Drummond Ranges and a very feasible ledge that the additional taxation to route through that range. Subsequently which he referred would not now accrue? it was thought advisable to take the line in The Postmaster-General also, on the same a northerly direction, and Mr. Hannam occasion, said that there was " a marked was instructed to thomughly explore the distinction between trunk and branch lines whole of the ranges. The result was .-the former ran through Crown lands, that the original route picked out was whilst the latter ran through alienated the one through which the railway would lands, and this Ministers proposed to do pass. Mr. Hannam had been about at the cost of the taxpayers." Had it five years, with the exception of a short been shown that these branch lines pro- time he was engaged on the permanent .. posed by the Government were not going works, exploring these ranges, and he through private property and would thought it was just as well that hon. mem not still be at the cost of taxpayers P bers should know that the Government Coming now to the provision for a were in no difficulty about carrying on that branch line to Clermont, he was ex line, or as to defining the route. He knew ceedingly disappointed that such a small that Mr. Ballard reported some time since !!.mount was put down fo:r it, It would be that all the features and intricacies of those No-Confidence Motion. [19 AUGUST.] No-Confidence Motion. 1313 ranges were fully and carefully determined .. lessees, and the Minister for Works said The truth should prevail at all times, they might double them it they gave a and hon. members should know that the better tenure and railway privileges; but Government had information with respect he (Mr. Paterson) said, let them deal to that line which they might have giYen with the railway privileges first and the to the House. 'With regard to the exten question of tenure afterwards, because sion from Retreat to the Thompson, he they should act with precaution. They wished to point out that althoul,ih this pro should take the same precaution as if they posal was only to carry the line 130 miles, were discounting a bill of someone whose still it was indicated by the Minister for ultimate ability to pay they were not quite W arks that this was only on account certain about. In the present instance, that it was contemplated to make a further they were about discounting this Loan Bill extension, and he was very glad to hear of the Government, and he held that they it. The extension from Retreat to the should take the same precaution, and Thompson would firstly benefit the JVIit way an assurance that, if after the rail ehell District, and, excluding the Gregory have was made there should be a deficiency districts from the calculation, the cost of of intere~t, it should be part of the 200 miles of railway from Retreat to the scheme that portion of the deficiency, Thompson, at £3,000 per mile, would be to the extent of two-thirds, should be £GOO,OOO, the annual interest on which, at obtained from the Mitchell district in 4~ per cent., would be £27,000. It had been respect of that line. Instead of asking said by the Minister for vV orks that he double rent, all they should require was believed that that line when constructed that the whole district should pay its share would return an amount equal to what was of the deficiency of interest, which was not now obtained from the working of the Cen too much to ask-that Ministers should tral Railway, and he (Mr. Paterson) had give them an assurance that when these figures to prove that that could be done ; lines were completed any deficiency of but what he wanted to show was that, eyen interest accruing would be stated, and that on that footing, there would still be a de they would assent and assist the House ficiency of interest, and, as that was the to pass a measure to enable the country to point upon which he practically staked his receive from the rents of that territory one election at Rockhampton, it was as well third more than they were at present that he should be clear upon it. The in receiving. He was not oRe of those terest on the line, as he had said, would be who was faint-hearted about trunk lines. £27,000, and deducting two-thirds of that The J\finister for Works, the other e>ening, amount, or 3 per cent., namely, £18,000- showed clearly that trunk lines could be that was on the understanding that the constructed at a very low cost. The prin 3 per cent. would be paid after paying cipal saving arose from the cheapness of working expenses- deducting that from steel rails and other material that had to the 4~ per cent. would leave a balance be imported ; and he wished to point out, to of interest deficient of £9,000. Now the hon. members who were doubtful upon real question was, would the pastoral this point, the benefit that would arise lessees recei>e any benofit from that line from a carefully-prepared and well-defined or any of the trunk lines P The :iYfinister for railway scheme at the present time. It vY arks had said that he once believed these was this-a few years ago permanent-way lines would benefit the pastoral lessees, imported cost from £1,300 to £1,500 per but he had since altered his opinion. But mile, and the Minister for Works stated would he or any hon. member say that the that it only now cost £675 per mile; so that pastoral lessees would not receive any i£ they a tailed themselves of the market at benefit at all-that they would not receive present, they would be making railways at an immediate monetary benefit the moment the rate they were two years ago, and the these lines were completed P He did not saving, as far as permanent-way was con belie\'e any membPr would have the courage cerned, would be equal to the enjoyment to say that they would not receive any of their cost free of interest for five benefit. No doubt the colony generally years. The interest on £3,000 for five would be benefited as well; and, putting years was £675, the amount at which the the benefit they would recPivc down at one Minister for W arks said permanent-way third, he thought they might very fairly could now 1H< imported for. This was the ask the Miichell district to contribute the reason why they should now consider the other h.a-thircls. It would be a very small desirability of supporting a sound and sum ; tal>ing £3,000 from the £9,000, it well-conceived measure for railway con would leave £6,000 of the deficiency in struction. Very much had been made interest to come from the .Mitchell district. of the estimated land revenue, and he From the published rent lists in the Gov should like to understand whether hon. ermnent Gazette he found that at present members, when using this term, meant the the annual rental received from that dis rents from pastoral tenants or the proceeds trict was £18,000. Much had been said of sales of Crown lands P It was very apt !!POut doubling the :rent~ of the pastoml to m.islead hon. wemberR if ther(l W!~-S not 187~-4 M . 1314 No-Confidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No- Confidence Motion. some distinction made, but, taking land marked as "taken up " on the maps at revenue as used by hon. gentlemen oppo the Land Office-that was, in the Gre site to mean both sales of land and pastoral gories North and South, and in the rents, they based their calculations on the Mitchcll ; so that there would not bl", land revenue received during the past five from tlw three sources he had mentioned, years, and expected to receive as much and for the next three or four years, the in more. But he was sorry to say that there crease expected by the Government during was everything to discourage the belief that the period when they would be expending they would receive any such revenue. One this loan. It had been said that the squat of the principal reasons why this result ters would not receive any benefit from the might be expected was the very many railway; but he could indicate the way in abnormal purchases of land that had which they would-they would enjoy the been made during the past five years means of tr:msit for the conveyance of by pastoral lessees. They were in a their wool, &c., to the coast, and for their most flourishing state-both cattle, men, stores from it. They would have a better and sheep, were in a very much better supply of labour; cheaper and more cer position than they are at present ; but tain carriage; and a saving of interest on every squatter he spoke with now on the their money by their produce-being rapidly matter, and every banker he spoke with conveyed to the coast. As a summary on the point, affirmed that the squatters of the immediate benefit that would accrue would do well in future to avoid the pur to the squatters, he might mention that chase of land. He believed there would be only a short time ago he saw a para a considerable diminution in the receipts graph in a newspaper, in which it was from the sale of pre·emptives to that sec stated that the people at Blackall had tion of the community ; and there was no agreed to pay 25 per cent. more to get prospect of the pastoral interest jumping their goods conveyed thither in five weeks. back into the position it held five years ago Now if the people there would pay 25 -at any rate, for the next two or three per cent. more to get their goods out in years, although he should be glad to see five weeks, ~hould the squatters not pay it do so. But there was another rea quite as much to get their goods out in son why the land sales revenue was likely twenty-five hours instPad of months? But to be stationary-namely, that if the Di instead of asking them to pay extra carri visional Boards Bill was passed it would, agE~, they would only be asked to pay about at the present juncture dishearten many one third of what they paid at present-'-and settlers in various parts of the colony-in even to that they demurred. Telegraph fact, it had already done so. Every man extension was a feature in the Loan Esti who was about to take up a selection was mates, and he thought they should stay now aware th:tt the moment he took it up their hands in that direction. He believed and it became of the nature of a freehold, he was correct in saying that the western he would be taxed for making roads, lines did not pay anything like interest on bridges, and what-not. That would act their cost of construction, and therefore as a deterl!ent to selectors. At any they ought to ask Ministers not to include rate, there were other ways in which telegraphic extension westward in their he could indicate that there were no Loan Estimate. The Minister for W orb grounds for believing that the land revenue spoke the other night of grass having of the colony from sales and selections paid the interest on the whole of the loan was likely to be increased; on the con of the colony since Separation and leaving trary, he believed it would be a good a balance of £280,000. thing for the country if they could hold The MINISTER FOR "VVoRKs: \Yhat I that revenue at its average for the last said was the interest on the money borrowed :five years. A. great deal had been said for railway construction. about the large extent of available coun Mr. P ATERSoN said he took down the try in the two Gregories and in the hon. gentleman's words at the time, but he Mitchell districts; but he had gone over would take Hansard as a very fair repre maps of the whole of them, and there sentation of what the hon. gentleman said. were not four inches of blank paper in The hon. gentleman was then reported to the lot, therefore there was no country have said to be taken up excepting runs that might be under forfeiture. The country was " I say it is the grass of the colony that pays receiving now the maximum rental that it the interest upon railway making." could possibly receive until the present He (Mr. Paterson) had only referred to the leases expired. He was aware that under whole of the debt of the colony in respect the leases there was an increase of rent to railways, as he had been talking about from time to time, but of that he was not railways all the time. At any rate, the speaking, as they were entitled to that hon. gentleman said that the pastoral rents whether there was a railway or not. He had not only paid the whole o£ the interest contended that seven-eighths, if not nine since Separation, but they would actually teen-twentieths, of the whole country was go £280,000 beyond that. The hon. gentle- No-C•hflrlence Motion. . [19 AUGUST.] No-Confidence Motion. 1315 man haft not shown that, nor had the not proceed until the fulle~t details were Ministers shown any scheme or proposal given to enable members to judge of under which they expected to extract from the merits of each line, otherwise they the grass of the colony a sufficient sum to would be asked to take a leap in the cover the interest that might be necessary dark. The great bulk of the population when these proposed lines were completed. were represented by the members on the His contention was, that they wanted the Opposition side, who were there to protect gra~s of those districts to pay for any de the interests of the population in the ficiency of interest on the working of the matter of taxation. He was as anxious as contemplated lines ; but no suggestion of any member to see a Loan Bill passed-in the kind had been made. The hon. gentle twenty-four hours if necessary, and he man had spoken in flowery terms of the hoped members on t'ither side would do great benefits the people of Queensland him the credit of belie>ing that in what he had received from pastoral rents, but he had said he was actuated by no special parti said nothing about the benefits the squat sanship; he had spoken as a Queenslander. ters had received in return-nothing of the Very much depended upon the public works tons of newspapers carried from Brisbane policy of any Government. The essential into the interior, and landed at the features of every public works policy squatter's cottages free of cost ;--even should be the extension of railways, coupled the Queenslamler was delivered to the with a careful scheme of immigration, and farthest end of the territory without a if the two were considered together at farthing cxpeme to the squatter. Taking the present time it would ultimately place the whole of the western territory, over this colony in the first rank of the group. 1he Main Range, crediting the whole of They had been told outside the House, re the rents received ever since Separation, cently, that the extension of certain lines and debiting the squatters with police pro depended upon the side of the House upon tection, co~t of the mail routes, dispensa which the rcpresentati>es of the districts tion of ju~ticc, police magistrates, and happened to sit. He, howe>er, gave the deficiency of interest on telegraphic con present Government credit for being in struction from the time it first passed the eamest in their railway policy, though he Range into that sparsely-peopled terri did not think their heart and soul were in tory, and only indicating a few of the all the branch lines, and one or two of the benefits received by the squatter at the trunk lines had but a watery support. cost of the State, he guaranteed the out This, perhaps, was not surprising. He come of it would he that there would might mention that the Ministerial party be very little of the pastoral rents to were not so liberal to his constituents as go to the credit of the country. One they were many years ago. Here they had could twist and turn figures to pro>e a Premier who had a special knowledge of anything, but he had indicated on this railway construction, and yet he gave the point sufficient to show that the argument district he (Mr. Paterson) represented about the }Jastoral rents having been such £90,000 less than the Colonial Secretary a lJOon to the country was a fallacious one did when he was Premier. So far as and apt to mislead. One of the leading the Liberal and Conservative parties features of the speeches of Ministers was went, the Central districts showed pretty that they did not defend the branch lines well the same with both. As to mile or give requisite information respecting age, the Palmer Administration gave them. The Colonial Secretary never used llO miles of railway towards the Comet, the words "branch lines" at all, and the and the Liberal Administration ninety Treasurer himRelf said very little about miles; but the cost of the ninety miles was them; the Minister for Works referred to £823,623, or nearly double that of the 110 them in a somewhat hopeless fashion ; miles. The total amount granted for rail columns of Hansard were devoted to the way construction in the Central districts advocacy of the soundness of the policy was £1,30:3,678, out of which the Palmer of the extension of trunk lines, but Admini~tration gave £480,000 and the Libe there were few members who were not ral £823,623; so that, so far as pounds went, of the same opinion as the Ministry, the Central district had benefited more by on the general question that the cou_ntry the Liberal than by the Conservative party, ought to be opened up by trunk hues. and now that the Conservatives had come It was admitted on both sides there was into power labelled "Liberal," they were little difficulty in the works specified. treating the Central districts more scurvily llranch lines were in the policy of the than they were treated many years ago. Government that ought not to be there, Nothing had been said by Ministers upon and branch lines were not there that which a fair and sound conclusion could be should be there. The fundamental differ anived as to where the deficiency was to Pure between the two sides of the House come from. He had shown that land sales was as to the soundness of the financial were likely to decrease instead of increase ; policy-to use the words of the Post that as far as the colony and its interests master-General. They on their side would were concerned, the Divisional Boards Bill, 1316 No-Confidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Conjidenre Motion. the tightness of the money market, and had been asked and objections raised. other causes, were likely to lead to a dimi They paid their interest out of the in nutionof the land revenue. Those facts could. creased prosperity of the colony. He was not be contested, and they should therefore thoroughly tired of hearing the same thing, have further and fuller information of the first from one side of the House and then intentions of the Government in the event of from the other. All the objections urged their prognostications as to the land revenue from the Opposition side now were urged not being realised. He was not inclined from the other side on a previous occasion; to regard the debate as of so much impor but there was this excuse then, that the tance as some people inside and outside the whole of the six railways were forced upon House were disposed to attach to it. It the House in a lump. As far as the party appeared to him to be morl' in the nature aspect of the affair was concerned, the of a conciliatory remonstrance than any Government ought to have a little further thing else. There had been a good deal of trial. He urged this in the interests of the financial juggling, but they had been un Opposition, because the Government wt>re able to find the pea. However highly doing all the unpopular work. All this that might be gilded, he should follow the alarm about the depression of the colony, course indicated by his remarks, still and so on, would pass away; its resources hoping members of the Ministry would were the same as ever. The Opposition give them a little more information before could then come in, fill up all the vacancies, going to division. All the speeches of hon. increase all the salaries, and the enhaneed members of the Government had beeu of prosperity of the colony would be attri an ultra-pastoral character. Trunk lines buted to them. Therefore, it was unwise were defended by them, but very little was on their part to do anything to embarrass said about branch lines ; and, though he the Government, so long as they were had no difficulty in digesting trunk lines, doing all the unpopular work. There was he was unable to give the Ministry his one thing that commended itself to him in support. He should be guided by what this scheme of the Government, and that was for the good of the colony. was their policy of branch lines of railway. Mr. J. M. THOMPSO~ said that, stand :From the last Government they had any ing now in the position of an independent amount of promises of branch lines. The member, he recognised in the present de Fassifern line was long ago dangled before bate an old friend-a premature attempt the eyes of that constituency, and for a on the pari; of the Opposition to carry long time successfully; and to keep it something against the Government. Not dangling, no fewer than three surveys of having been behind the scenes of either it were made. It was a capital thing to pro party he did not intend to say much of the mise ; but they never had an amount for party aspect of the affair, but it struck him the Fassifern and .Mount .Esk railways on as rather remarkable that when these rail the Estimates. Promises only satisfied ways which had been forced on the House for a time ; they were only unsubstan in a lump were carried to their legitimate tial food at best, but they staved conclusion-when the high-hand policy of off appetite for a while. The time had the other side was carried out, it shoulcl come now for something substantial. meet with objection from them. He could The Government were making an effort; understand it if these six lines of railway towards performance, and had put the were the outcome of the policy of his side several amounts on the Estimates for the of the House. Did not the records of first time. The sums were small. £2,500 the House show that they were forced on a-mile was not, perhaps, sufficient for a the country in the most; high-handed high-speed railway; but they did not want manner? They were made to swallow the high-speed railways, but would be quite lot. When the hon. member for Mary content with sure and cy gave the the slightest doubt. They might not pay in railways. But there was a very simple the shape of interest on cost of construction, answer. The rate of increase of both but they would pay in increased facilities population and property was so great of communication, in thL' enhancf.'d value of that; they could always overtake the in land, in increased facilities for getting pro terest on a loan of this kind. Ever since duce to market, and in the development of he had been in the House, the ques the min~ral . resources of the countr/ tiqn of how to provide the interest Along mth h1s hon. colleague (11J:': Mi\13~ No-Confidence Motion. [19 AuGusT.] No-Confidence Motion. 1317 farlane), he regretted that there was nothing exception, required very tender handling, in the scheme of the Government for bring· and would be greatly enhanced in value if ing the Southern and Western Rail way to it could be shipped without being broken deep-water. He was sorry for that, because up. It did not matter much which way he such a branch line would greatly facilitate voted to-night, because he could see very the shipping of minerals, and especially of well it was only a sham-fight. He should, coal, thereby putting the colony in that however, vote on the side which had given respect on more equal terms with New them a part of the promises of the last South \Vales, which only possessed one coal Government, in the confident hope that the -the N ewcastle-as good. The hon. mem rest, also, would be given in due time. ber (Mr. Macfarlane) might have stated one Mr. HEYDREN said he was sorry to hear fact in even stronger terms, forthe:N ewcastle the hon. member (Mr. Thompson), who coal to which he referred was still in a had been absent from the colony and corner of the Gas Company's shed at neglecting his Parliamentary duties, assert Ipswich, having been found inferior for that this was a sham-fight-more especially their purpose to the Ipswich coal. There as that hon. member had been requested was coal at Ipswich which, if it got into by his constituents either to resign his seat the market, would find a market in any or attend in his place in the House. But part of the world, and he was a little sur as that absence was, he believed, caused prised, therefore, that the Government had by circumstances over which the hon. done nothing to facilitate its export. It member had no control, he would not might be said that this sort of thing should upbraid him for it. ·what he (Mr. Hendren) be done by private enterprise, but capital wished to say was, that the best line to in this colony was limited, and industries deep-water was from Oxley to South Bris. required some little fostering at the outset. bane, and that line should be made if they If they were as rich as the capitalists of wished to enrich West Moreton, and not New South Wales, they could afiord to make it a mere pocket borough for North pay £20,000 or £30,000 for a tramway to Brisbane. Several surveys had already deep-water, but unfortunately they were been made for that line, and he recom not. Assistance in this direction was mended it to the attention of hon. members. therefore quite legitimate, and the public He was speaking for the general good of would be justified in joining in an experi the country, and he considered it would be ment which might be for the good of the a rascally shame to extend the line from whole colony, by establishing an industry the present terminus through the city. The which largely employed labour, which distance to South Brisbane would be only brought actual money into the colony, and about seven miles and there were no which was unobjectionable in enry way. engineering difficulties in the way. The He would suggest to the Government a whole country was one coal-bed, and it was means by which that object could be necessary that some line should be made obtained under their present scheme. One to accommodate the coal trade. Mr. of the surveys for the Sandgate line would Gregory had shown that it was injurious pass along the river near Bulimba, and it to trade to ship coal from the wharves would be an easy thing to communicate where general commerce was carried on. with the river so as to enable them to ship He (Mr. Hendren) was in favour of a line their coal. ·whether the line went to South from South Brisbane to Oxley. On the Brisbane or to Bnlimba was nothing to the north side there was no room, as all the producing interests; all they wanted was land was occupied by men who wanted to to have the thing done. During the whole make a fortune, and who had formed a of the time those extraordinary shuffies ~and ring there. He had no interest were taking place in the late Adminis m the export of wool, tallow, or other tration to which reference had been western produce, and he was only in made to-night, this question was con terested in the country as a whole, and tinuously forced upon the attention of particularly in the coal-producing portion the Government far more than it had of it. The district he represented had on this. There were inquiries and com produced nearly all the coal that had been missions-the most artistic commission exported from the colony. He did not ever got up by any Government-a com· believe that anything he might say on the mission so constituted that it was impos main question would have any influence sible for the members composing it to whatever, so he would only congratulate agree. The consequence was, a negative the hon. member for Ipswich (Mr. Thomp· report which justified the Government in son) on his re-appearance in the House. doing nothing; and they did nothing. He There was not a particle of bad feeling hoped the Government would consider his between him and hon. members on the idea of taking the river on their way to Ministerial side ; and he believed that on a Sandgate, and thus satisfy both the pro division the hon. member (Mr. Thompson) mises made by the late Government would be found voting for his district. branch railways and communication with Mr. ARCHER said he should not trouble deep-water. The Ipswich coal, with one the House, as some hon. members had 1318 No-Oon.fir:lence Motion. [.ASSEMBLY.] No-Confidence Motion. done, with many quotations from Hansard. interest on the sums borrowed. The hon. That was a weapon, as far as he could see, gentleman should remember, also, that there that cut both ways, and he did not think was a hope that the colony would not be it was desirable to rake up what had been for a great length of time in the depressed said years before. The hon. member state it was now. He had only to steer (Mr. Bailey), who quoted nearly all his the ship of the State, as an hon. mem speech from Hansard, forgot that only ber (Mr. Douglas) had called it, at a time a short time before he began a speech when there were no great difficulties in and altered his opinion before he got to the way. Ministers were now brought the end of it. The hon. member who face to face with the fact that if the pub changed his opinions, not in the course of lic works of the colony were suddenly years, but in five minutes, had no need to stopped there would be distress in the rake up old speeches to account for the country a great deal worse than anything actions of the day. The hon. gentlemen likely to result from the payment of in who first spoke from the Opposition terest .• "\Vhat hon. members had saicl of side of the House did not treat tlw the enormous extravagance of the Govern question quite fairly when they made a ment applied much more fairly to the great cry about the enormous amount of former Government. IVhen the hon. mem money proposed to be borrowed, and the ber (Mr. Douglas), in his poetical image length to which the Government were of the ship in full sail, blamed the Govern going. They did not draw the attention ment for carrying all sail at a time when of the House to the fact that the Govern to weather a storm they ought to take in ment were not going nearly so far as the reefs and manage the ship carefully, he had House had again and again gone before. not taken the trouble to study the figures They all started on the false assumption laid before the House, and must have been that the three millions was to be borrow6ld under the impression that the proposed loan in order to be spent in one year ; otherwiRe, was greater than what he had been in the he did not know what the speeches meant. habit of borrowing, instead of being at the The leader of the Opposition said that all rate of a quarter of a million a year less. the cry was "give us money," as if the There D,eed not be such fear, because it was request was for a very much larger amount perfectly well known that the sum would than he had ever been instrumental in not be borrowed at one time, but be scat getting while he was a member of a Govern tered over the period stated. He wished ment. The fact was, that the sum pro to say, briefly and distinctly, why he was posed was much smaller than the amount able to support the Loan Estimates. Every the colony had been in the habit of hon. member was probably best acquaintt•d borrowing. Three millions divided into with the resources of his own district. He three years gave one million a year; and (Mr. Archer) was thoroughly satisfied with the Minister for Works had read the other the resources of his district, and, so far day that in 1875 the colony borrowed from there being a question as to where £1,695,300; in 1876, £740,700; and in the interest was to come from for the con 1877, £1,822,000-making in the three years struction of the Central Railway, he be a total of £3,758,000, or an average of about lieved the line would help the construction £1,253,000 a year. Therefore, the Govern of other lines. The representatives of the ment were now proposing to borrow a Southern part of the colony did not appear quarter of a million a year less than the to have the same confidence in their dis previous Government borrowed during tricts. They appeared to be afraid that those three years. And yet the cry was the branch lines and the extension of the that the Government were proposing to Southern and Western Railway would borrow excessive sums and to rush the not pay ; but they would have this colony into a frightfully extensive system satisfaction, at any rate, that the lines of public works. He insisted that such would not be "bunched," and they would was not a fair way to put the question. be able to oppose them as they came for Again, the non. member for Enoggera said ward one by one. As for the Central line, that in 1869 so little money had been bor he felt perfectly confident it would not add rowed that the interest on it was not one penny to the general imlebtednes~. or a great deal more than half of the in at all events it would pay in a few years, come derived from Customs and Excise. after the earnings were taken into account. He might have gone a little further, The Southern lines, therefore, stood on a back to the time when there was no interest different footing. There were a great to pay at all upon borrowed money. But many gentlemen who were satisfied that the sum now proposed to be borrowed branch lines would not pay, but the branch would not by any means be a greater ad milways now proposed differed materially dition than the sums which he had been in from the lines the late Goyernment in strumental in borrowing. No doubt, the troduced. The railways the Postmaster hon. gentleman had much easier times ; General did not believe in were short lines when he was Treasurer the yearly increase going nowhere, such as the Bundaberg of revenue to a great extent covered the and Gympie lines. These were what were No-Oonfidenoe Motion. [19 AUGUST.j No-Confidence Motion. 1819 called short and insignificant lines, which broke off his speech. He believed as he ought, perhaps, never to have been under (Mr . .Archer) did-that the Central line, at taken, and these were the lines which the all events, would pay well and be an assist Postmaster-General opposed. The branches ance, and not a· drain upon the country; now proposed had the advantage that they and he had therefore hoped that the hon. were connected with main lines and would member would say he would not vote for act as feeders to them, and that every bit the motion of the leader of the Opposition, of produce or fare they carried would actu as by supporting it he would actually ob ally add to the income of the main lines, ject to the scheme of the Government. He and they therefore could not be put in the (Mr . .Archer) felt that these main trunk same category as the Gympie and Bunda lines were already and were more and more berg lines. He would simply notice that becoming the means by which their towns the Northern line, which had been spoken grew and increased in wealth and trade, of by the hon. member (Mr. Paterson) as and that, therefore, they must be carried one of the short lines to which .;the Post out. The present might not be the most master-General objected, would really be fortunate time to carry them out. They, of eome a trunk line, the same as the Central. course, deplored that the normal increase If the people who had got what they of revenue did not meet the expenditure, wanted, or were getting what they wanted, and if they believed it were to continue they objected to the Government undertaking should have to go on much slower; but this railway, they should be disappointing Queensland had seen quite as bad times the Northern people ; it was known they before, and had recovered from th.em. He wrre promised this line by the late Gov therefore thought that they could safely ernmPnt, and the present Ministry would entrust the Government with the expendi therefore be breaking faith if they did not ture of the proposed loan to open out the carry it out. .As to the talk about who traffic of the country. No one, however benefited by the construction of these rail timid he might be as to the present, would ways, it was mere nonsense to say that the fail to see that the proposed works were Fquatters of the \Vest would not benefit. necessary; but, at the same time, he was vVhocver got cheaper and more eertain far from wishing to carry things with a carriage benefited ; but, if they were to fast hand. If the Ministry and the House look at the interest with which the towns would see that it was desirable gradually contended for the railways, they benefited to decrease public works, to borrow year as much as any part of the country. 'iVhy by year a slightly lower amount, he believed was there a class in the South advoeating they would be doing a wise thing. They that the Romil, Railway should go North saw what distress would be created if the if it was not because it was known that expenditure of public money were to cease. Brisbane would be benefited and corner Let both sides, therefore, make up their allotments would be made .more valuable P minds to a certain scheme by which the In Rockhampton there was the same feel expenditure of public money should be ing, but there was this difference-they had lessened, so that in some time of prosperity opened a legitimate trade to the vV est they should be able to stop these expensive by their own enterprise and carried on the public works altogethgr without feeling it. traffic by means of drays. They were .At present, however, such a thing could anxious for the extension of the Central not be done, and if the opponents of the railway, because they feared that the Government succeeded in bringing it about, Southern line would tap their district, they would be the worst friends of the and they were justified in their wish. country. No one who had watched the energy Mr. }fcLEAN : From the speeches made with which they had fought for the wes on this question by the Ministry and tern trade would grudge them their desire their followers, it is very evident that the to retain it. Seeing the confidence that he Government and those who support them had in the trunk lines ultimately be consider that they have a great mission to coming payable, and referring especially to perform, which is to extend three main the Central one, he had not the slightest lines into the interior. That is the mission doubt in supporting the Government; of the Government, and that is· why the and, if he saw the Opposition on the 8quatters are determined to support them. other side so decidedly opposed to the In all the speeches that have been made Southern lines being carried out, perhaps from the other ~icle we have had vividly he would give them his assistance. Pro recalled to our mind the banquet scene in bably, however much they might object at Macbeth. In that scene there is alwavs a present to the loan now proposed, they .Ban quo appearmg, and here we have always would prefer and be ready to increase had the ghost of the late Government appear the amount so that their districts might ing. The late Government it is said, have get a larger share, rather than obstruct the involved the country in this and that great Government in getting the loan. He was expenditure; they have "bunched" six rather disappointed at the inconclusive way lines of railway together, and forced them in which the hon. member (1\fr. Paterson) upon the House. Well, if the late Govern- 13:20 No-Co'fl;fidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Confidence Motion. ment did force them upon the House, they time? I cannot sec the slightest difference also came down with plans, specifications, between the manner in which the late and books of reference, and they laid them Government went into the money-market upon the table before they ever asked and asked for loans to carry on public the House to vote a single fraction for the works, and the manner in which the purpose of constructing the railways. Do present Government intend doing the same we find this to be the case now ? On the thing. The capitalists of England are well contrary, there is not a single survey aware that further loans will be required effected of the proposed lines ; not one by this colony. There is one remark Minister has told us that one survey has made by the Colonial Secretary with refer been made for any portion of the proposed ence to the vote for immigration to which trunk or branch lines. We know perfectly I wish to refer. I do not call attention well that in a large majority of cases there to this for the purpose of bringing up the have been actually no surveys made, and railway workshops again, but to show that that the Government have no more idea of while accusations were hurled against the the character of the country over which late Government of being a squeezable the lines will have to pass than they have Go>ernment, no sooner did the present of the nature of the country in the moon. Government meet the House than they There is a great difference between the re were squeezed into a line of action that they spective policies of the late Government and had no intention whate>er of carrying out the present. I have already pointed out one. until they were compelled to do so by this When the late Government came to the side of the House•. ·when the Government House with plans and books of reference, were charged with driving people out of the they were in a position to give at least colony, the Colonial Secretary said- some faint idea of how much the work was " I deny the fact that our act in dismissing to cost ; but the present Government come some of the artisans from the Ipswich railway down, and tell us they arc prepared to carry shops had a tendency to drive people out of the out 390 miles of railway at £3,000 per colony, for although we deemed it our duty to mile, without the slightest evidence to lessen the number of people who were and even show that the work can be done for that now are only half employed in thme workshops, amount, or any information whatever on we found that -by giving certain contracts in the subject. There is no ground whatever the colony we were furnishing employment to for such assumption. The Government mechttnics of the same description." simply express their belief that it can be But how came it that this work was done ; but I would ask, is the House justi given to the colony P It was distinctly fied in involving the country in this amount giYen to the mother-country by the present of additional taxation on the ~imple state Government until ch~tllengecl by the Oppo ment that Ministers believe that certain sition, and then to appease to a certain railways can be made for a certain sum of extent the excitement caused by the dis money? I am not one of those who place missals from the Ipswich workshops, they implicit faith in the present Government turned about, and, instead of sending the or any Government ; and I say we are not work home to be carried out, it was handed justified in involving the colony in addi to a Brisbane firm. That was one of the tional taxation simply upon such a state first public acts of the present Government, ment. If the Government had come clown and it was squeezed out of them by the with plans and books of reference, and cal present Opposition. "With reference to the culations of their engineers, and then cost of these lines, I have e>ery confidence said they believed the lines could be in the Premier as an enginrer, and if that carried out for a certain sum, there gentleman knew the country and had the might be some ground for believing plans before him and then told us from them; but they have not produced any what he knew of the country, and from the thing of the kind, or anything further calculations he had made, he believed these than their belief that it can be done. We lines would be carried out for £3,000 a have, however, the further statement that mile, I do not think anv member of the unless the work can be done as the Gov House would have do'i:tbted it; but I ernment think it can be, they would not and other hon. members have no right be justified in going on with the work. -nor do I suppose the hon. gentle· Another point made by the other side of man would ask us-to accept it as mere the House with regard to the borrowing of guess-work, and we are not prepared this money is, that it is better to go to the blindly to vote the sum on the mere London money-market and say, "We want assumption that the Government believe three mrllions of money, but we do not it can be done. Again, I ask hon. mem want it all at once," than to ask for it in bers is it right for us to force this ad driblets ; but do the Government really ditional 390 miles of railway upon the think that the capitalists of England are people of the far ·west against their will P not just as well aware as we are here that We were told distinctly by the hon. mem we have other works to carry out as well ber for N ormanby (Mr. Stevenson) and by as those we have in hand at the present the Premier, that if the settlers out west No-Oonjirlence Motion. [19 AUGUST.] No-Confidence Motion. 1321 had their way they would rather these Secretary said in objecting to a remark railways were not built, and I say, we haye made by my hon. friend (Mr. Dickson). no right to make these people ha>e rail The hon. member said that my hon. friend ways whether they want them or not. ought not to say that the £100,000 was Th~ hon. member for Blackall (Mr. intended as a bribe, considering that the Archer) has told us that he has every Premier announced on the second reading confidence that the Central line will pay, of the Divisional Boards Bill that it was and I do not doubt that it will, but I think impossible the shire councils could come it will be a very long time before it does into existence unless help was given them pay. It mm;t be in the lmowledgc of hon. during the first year. I was struck with members that some of these western ex the remark at the time, and have made it tensions have to travel o.-er 100 miles of my business to read carefully through the country-at least the Central line has Treasurer's speech in delivering his Finan from which no traffic whatever will be de cial Statement, and there is not a single rived, so that the only additional revenue >Yord about his considering the Divisional from that line will be from the 30 miles be Boards Bill by a gift from the Government. yond the lOO. I ha>e often heard it said that It was evidently an afterthought. When the longer we make our lines the better the petitions were coming into the House they will pay; but I cannot understand against the passing of the Bill, then the that unless you take into consideration one Treasurer, on second thoughts, concluded important factor, and that is that you must it would be well to start these divisional ha.-e population to create traffic before boards into existence by giving them they will pay. That is why I believe the £100,000. The statement was never branch lines the Government propose to made in the Financial Statement, but carry out will pay better than the trunk came in as an afterthought to gild line; because where the branch lines will the pill of the Divisional Boards Bill. be made there are people settled, and The Colonial Treasurer saw clearly that there is trallic ready to go upon the lines unless there was something sweet put round as soon as they are constructed. But we this taxation, as mothers put jelly around ha>c no pojmlation out in the far \Vest, nauseous meaicines they give to their chil although some lwn. members are of opinion dren, the settled districts would not swallow that when these railways are made out it. I have always been a strong advocate there a great deal of settlm:~ent will take of branch lines, but there is one branch pL.tce. But IYO han• extens1ve settlement line I do not obser\'e in this list, and I in the districts where the branch lines are know that at least one member of the pre proposed, and therefore I think those lines sent Government was pledged to it. I refer will pay afar larger percentage than the main to the Colonial Secretary, who distinctly lines. The Minister for "\V orks told UR last stated, anrl promised to the people of the \Vednesday, with reference to this 390 Logan, when it was necessary to hold out miles of railway, that he was prepared to another bribe, not only that they should prove "We should not require additional have a railway, but a bridge over the Logan, taxation for the extension of the lines west at Loganholme. The same Government ward, though he could not say as much for gave a distinct pledge through their Attor the brunch lines. The hon. gentleman said ney-General that they would give an ad that the poor man would not be put to a ditional member to Fortitude Valley; but penny additional taxation. I can prove to it appears that promises are made by this the House that the policy of the Govern Government to be broken unless there is the meut has already increased the taxation of great consideration hanging at the end of it the poor man, and that the present action -" If you return our man, you will get such of the Government is imposing additional and such; if not, you will be punished for it." burdens upon the settlers. \Ve have a re The Minister for \Vorks said a good deal, turn upon the tab~e showing ~early ~14,000 while criticising my hon. friend, Mr. of lapsed votes m eonnectwn with our Douglas, about log-rolling; but if these roads and bridges ; and will the hon. harbours and rivers are not specimens of gentleman tell me that if. o~r ~oads are not log-rolling I do not know what is, and the in a good state of repa1r 1t 1s not an ad Minister for Works must confess it. I ditional taxation, and that in its most find here the item of £10,000 for the Logan insidious form P When sp('aking of the River. I am sorry the Colonial Treasurer Divisional Boards Bill some time ago, I is not in his place, because I would like to stated that the object of that Bill was to know what he is going to do with it. I am enable the Government to nurse the general told he has arranged to put it upon the resources of the colony, to pay the in Loan Estimates to oblige the hon. member terest required for the carrying out of for Bulimba, and, if that is so, a charge of these main trunk lines to the West. log-rolling can most distinctly be made out. "What I said then, I repeat now. .As Then there is £10,000 for the Endeavour to this £100,000 on the Loan Estimates River. The hon. member for Cook is here, in connection with the Divisional Boards and he can contradict me if I am wrong, Bill, I will refer to wkat the Colonial but I was told by a resident of Cooktowu 1322 No-Oon.fir:lence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Oon.fir:lence Motion. that there is no necessity whatenr for this strated by this division that there are still £10,000 being spent, because the largest two parties, and that we are determined to steamers that trade to the North can come in keep fhat line as well defined as we pos to the wharf at Oooktown and discharge and sibly can. The Government come and ask take in cargo without the slightest impedi for £1,150,000 for three trunk lines solely ment. I have always been an advocate for for the benefit of one class of the com something being done for the goldfields, but munity, but when the claims of the class I cannot for the life of me see why the gold which has to a grL•at extent made the fields should have ·been specially picked colony what it is, a class which has been out by the Government for a favour in the struggling on for ycars-whPn its claims form of having £20,000 additional put down are brought forward, a fifth of that amount for them on these Loan Estimates. Is it th@ only is to be gi I'Pn to them for branch intention of the Government not to bring lines. I think, if a division is takPn, the goldfields within the operation of the it will prove to the country that there Divisional Boards Bill? It looks like it, are at least two parties on that ques· because if that Bill is to be brought into tion. I was rather amused at hearing the operation on the goldfields as well as else hon. member for Gregory charge this side where, why are not they to have their with obstruction. Who have been the share of the £100,000 which is put down?, obstructors during the present session? It seems as if there is to be ·an extra share Certainly not hon. members on this side, for the goldfields, and, however much for we have assisted the Government to the hon. .Minister for Works may have pass their measures ; or, rather, if we had been eharged by hon. members on this side not assisted them no measure they would with not looking after the interests of the have passed could ever have been of any miners, after this we may exonerate him use to the country. Instead, thereforP, of from any such charge. It is true this deserving to be charged with obstruction, £20,000 is to be spent on main roads to we have done all we could to as~ist the the goldfields, but I do not see why the Government in passing their measures, goldfields should be benefited at the ex which I am sorry are so few in number. pense of the whole colony, if they are not to I have no hesitation in making up my be brought under the operation of the Divi mind on this question-it has bPen made :.;ional Boards Bill. I was rather· amused up long ago ; but there is one thing I at the manner of the Premier and the Min will do, which is this-thnt I will do ister for Works when meeting the question all I can to assist in getting branch lim·s. of how the interest was to be paid on I can see clearly from the speeches of hon. this loan. It is well known that the late members opposite that they are quite Government provided a scheme by which willing for us to assist them in getting their the interest on all loans was to be met, trunk lines, and also are quite williug to but the Premier, in telling the House how assist us in not voting for the branch lim•s. this interest was to be paid, scorned the I think it is quite time that the people in idea of adopting the plan proposed by the the settled districts should have railway late Government, and said to us, " You facilities giYen to them, and I shall not had a limited area from which to receive assist to strike out ong item in the Loan interest on your loan, but"-and here the Estimates for branch lines. I am sorry the hon. gentleman gave a triumphant wave of Government have not thought proper to his hand-" I have the whole colony." include in their list a branch line from the Like Robinson Orusoe, the hon. gentleman SouthPrn and Western Railway to deep was monarch of all he RUrYeyed, and said, water, but they can do that gracefully yet, with a great flourish, "I haYe the whole and I am confident they will receive the colony." I, as a representative of a settled assistance of the House in so doing. district, distinctly object to sueh a system .Mr. W ALSH ~aid he had been rather being pursued by any Government. The pleased at the desire expressed to go to a settled districts have been already taxed for division that night. He had heard nothing the construction of these railways, and yet during thP present session but strictures they are to be taxed doubly to pay for a rail on the policy of the Government, and over way to the very district which has paid least and over again it had been stated by hon. to the revenue, for reasons best known to the members opposite that the Government hon. gentleman himsel:f who brought d9wn had no policy-in fact, every petty advan this Loan Estimate. l have no intention tage had been taken to embarrass the of keeping the House much longer, as I Gonmment in proceeding with their busi think it is time we came to a division. I ness, and, therefore, he considered it was a hope we shall come to a division. I hope matter for general congratulation that they that the leader of the Opposition will call hoped to finish the discussion of the policy for a division in order to show the country of the Government that evening, and thus that however great were the protestations allow them to go on with the' business of of the other side of the House during the the country. As to the policy of the Gov elections that there were not two parties in ernment, he was only able to see a slight the country, it will be conclusively demon- difierence in it from what it always was No-Confidence Motion. [19 A.UGUST.] No-Confidence Motion. 1323 and that was in the right direction, inas that extension. Of the three lines it was mueh as they had placed more money on the weakest. If it was extended north the Estimates for branch railways than westerly it would scarcely compete with they advocated when in Opposition. That the Central line; if extended to Thorgo ought certainly to suit the Opposition, who mindah, with a view to catching the New used to be continually denouncing trunk South Wales traffic, they must remember lines and advocating branch lines. There that the River Darling was flooded at least was one thing in favour of trunk lines twice a year and sometimes all the year namely, that they were made through round, and with freight at £3 a ton to Crown lands, whereas branch lines were Adelaide from such places as Bourke, all made through the property of pri Brewarrina, and "\Yalgett, it would most vate persons, who frequently agitated for likely turn out that all stations on the them, not for the purpose of benefit border would send their produce that way. ing the country, but with the object He doubted the expediency of extending of getting a good price for their lands. the l{oma line, and hoped it would not re They desired to extort money from the ceive the sanction of the House. The ob Government of the day. In some parti it'ction that Government had not shown how culars he did not altogether approve of the they were going to raise the interest on Loan Estimates ; but he should, whether borrowed capital had been suillciently he supported or objected to anything, give dealt with by the Premier and the Minis his free opinion. There were some new ter for \Vorks, whose speeches he had departures which were not wise. The hon. read, but it was clear to him that, if the member for the Logan had discovered for railways hitherto constructed at an average the first tim8 some recognition of the im cost of £9,000 a mile could pay 2 or 3 per portance of the goldfields, and the hon. cent. on this outlay, those now to be con member evidently did not think that a structed at about £3,000 a mile would pay departure in the right direction, but rather much more. Another thing in favour of that people should be taxed to eradieate the trunk lines was that the whole of the BathurKt burr. Another hon. member inland country was level, and that they (Mr. Rates) would like to support the Burr could not make a good road so cheaply as Bill if it could be worked without taxing they could make a good railway. In refer the people. How could he expect to get ence to taxation, it appeared to him absurd rid of burr if the people who suffered from that the squatter should not pay more rent it did not tax themselves? for his run when he had derived benefit Mr. K.A.TES explained that it was the from increased railway accommodation. public reserves which were infested through "\V ould not the Parliament of the day, the neglect of the GovPrnmcnt. 'l'hc whoever they were-and it was nearly station-owners had cleared their stations. certain the party in power would be the Mr. W ALSH said that did not alter the Liberal l\1inistry-haYe the power to in case, as the reserves were for the benefit crease the land rents ? Could they not of the people there, and they should bear pass an Act raising the rents P any tax. He would have liked to hear Mr. G.mRICK: No; they have their some scheme from the leader of the twenty-one years' leases. Government by which any deficiency in the Mr. vV .A.LSH took it the House could, in interest on borrowed money should be spite of what the hon. gentleman said; it raised from the districts specially benefited appeared absurd if the House eould not. by the loan expenditure. They would With reference to the roads on the gold have ultimately to come to that. The leader fields and the Divisional Boards Bill, the of the Opposition had objected that there hon. member for the Logan forgot that the was no proposed increase of population, district of Cook had only been discovered but if that hon. member prevented the five years, and that it stood in a very carrying out of a progressive works policy different position to the older parts of the he would have a direct means of decreas colony where they had had macadamised ing the population. He viewed the Charters roads for the last twenty-five years. There Towers line as one of the best the colony was not a single euhert on the road would have, and from his knowledge from Cooktown to Maytown that had of the country and the district he could cost 20s. of public money, and as the could say it would be as remuneratiYe district had produced so much was it as the Central line. If there was an objec fair to ignore it P They wanted :no tionable trunk line it was the extension money in that district for which they were from Roma, which he had hoped to see a not prepared to pay interest, and they had large inland town, but when the railway several resources from which to pay in· was taken north-westerly, as the people of terest on any expenditure there. A refer· Brisbane hoped it would be, it would get ence had been made to the item for the no more traflic than if the terminus were at improvement of the Endeavour Harbour; Roma, and the hon. member for Ipswich and .in spe last that the debate would not be over in ing. That privilege he feared he would less than two days. As to hon. member's have to forego, if the motion was pressed to speeches being reported in Hansard, it a division to-night. was well known that after a certain time The PREliHER said he gave the leader of speeches could not appear at length in the Opposition all credit for having endea Hansard, as there would not be room. voured to bring the debate to a close to He had heard that several hon. members night; but when he found that a small were desirous of speaking, and under the section of the Opposition attempted to circumstances he hoped that the debate coerce their leader and take the leadership would be adjourned till the next day. out of his hands, it could not be said he The PRE1IIER said that his only reason was wanting in courtesy in refusing the for adjourning over Monday was that the request of the leader of the Opposition debate would be finished that (Tuesday) they forced on him, and in insisting that evening-. As to his not having consented to the debate should close to-night. Three proceed with the debate on Thursday last, nights were surely sufficient for a debate it was entirely with a regard to the conveni of this kind; and if hon. members on the ence of hon. members who had private other side wished to speak, he was prepared business on the paper. to listen to them patiently. The hon. Mr. GRIFFiTH said that the adjourn· member for the Kennedy (Mr. Stubley) ment of the debate over Monday was his had deliberately told him that if the debate suggestion, as he pointed out that a great was pressed to a division to-night he was many hon. members could not possibly determined the Government should do no attend on that day. As to closing the business this session, as he would obstruct debate that evening he never heard it everything. vV as that a kind of thing they mentioned till the afternoon, and he then should give way to P If they sat till the said he would do all he could to bring it to day after to-morrow, the hon. member a conclusion. would find that his threat was perfectly A long discussion on the order of pro futile. cedure ensued. After further discussion, Question-That this debate be now Question put and negatived. Mr. Ru said he did think that after the adjourned-put. concession made last week to the Govern The House divided :- ment something like fair play would have AYES, 24. been allowed, and some consideramon would Messrs. Griffi!h, Price, Dickson, McLcan, haYe been shown to members on the Oppo , Rea, Stubley, Paterson, Rutlcdge, Jl.:t:eston, sition benches ; but, as the Government Bailey, Miles, Kinp;sford, Mackay, Douglas, had insisted on the debate going on, they Garrick, Hendrcn, Kates, Groom, Macfarlanc must take the consequences. of any animad (Ipswich), Grimes, Beattie, Thorn, Horwitz, versions that might be made upon their ancl Tyrol. conduct. The real question in the debate NoEs, 27. had not been touched upon at that sitting. Messrs. A. H. Palmer, Macrossan, Perkins, It was not a question of the railway policy Mdlwraith, W alsh, Scott, Hill, Cooper, N orton, of the Ministry, of the squatting policy, or Sicvens, Hamilton, O'Sullivan, Persse, Lalor, the policy of land sales; it was also not ~'hompson, Kellett, Stcvenson, Sheaffc, Low, the banking question or the immigration Morehead, Amhurst, H. W. Palmer, Baynes, policy of the Government; but it was the Simpson, Beor, Swanwick, anc1 Archer. whole policy of the Ministry combined, Question, therefore, resolved in the nega since they took office last January, that the tive. House had been asked to give its decision Mr. STuBLEY moved the adjournment of upon. The first thing that would occur to the House. a stranger coming into the Assembly would Mr. GRIFFITH said it would be much to be to inquire as to what the Ministry had be regretted if the debate, after having done since January P He found that the been so harmoniously conducted, should first item was the correspondence between rt>sult in a sudden rupture between the two the banks and the Treasurer. This docu sides of the House. The feeling of ill-will ment had long since reached London, engendered in a few moments would take a and he was quite confident that, in re very long time to dissipate. He had done ference to the proposed loan, the men on his best-he had even gone out of his way the London Stock Exchange would be -to bring the debate to a close this eve holding their sides in derision at such a ning, and had persuadt:'d several members document having been allowed, for it indi to speak much more briefly than they had cated a foregone conclusion on the part of intended to do. Then, there was his own the Colonial Treasurpr to get the whole reply, which the Premier was good enough moneys within the power of the Treasury to say he would give him the opportunity of Queensland, and place them in a bank of making. He would hardly do justice in which he himself was interested. What to himself at this hour, after having been did this show but that the whole manceuv hard at work since ten o'clock in the morn- ring of the Ministry hati been to get the U32 No-Co'J!ftdence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Conficlence JJ1~otion. money of the colony under their control or of England r Was it not enough to with a view to lending it to their own fol call the attention of the country to how lowers. The next step was taken in the votes were carried in that House and to month of April, and it was to get the whole the class of men who carried them P They of the coast lands in the colony within the heard a very candid statement to-night grasp of the Ministerial followers. The from an hon. member opposite as to the Government held the whole of the auction way in which a squatter going to a bank sales in one day of a territory larger for a loan might be treated-that if he did than had ever been attempted to be not do all he was told to do the screw would sold in any part of the world. Such a be put on; and that gave some reason for transaction as that would have been enough the conduct of hon. members oppositt? to have caused any other Parliament to that the banks would put the screw on if refuse its confidence to the Ministry guilty they dicl not vote and do as they were told of bringing it about. The next transaction to do. They had also heard to-night some took place in the same month, when the thing that accounted for the votes of those Government made a bargain with their hon. members-namely, the fact that they own bank that it should have the use of held large areas of country over the border the public money, and when the House in South Australian territory. That showed came to examine the condition of that in what was meant by railways to the setting stitution they learnt that it was a limited sun. He believed that such a thing had liability bank, and therefore liable only never before been heard of. The runs of to the amount of its shares. He would those hon. members would be benefited by ask any man if he believed that any other those railways out west, but at the same Parliament in the Australian colonies time they would bear no part of the taxa would have tolerated any Ministry doing tion of this colony. That was the whole such an act P There was also the further secret of why they were called upon to >ote question in connection with the bargain this three millions of money. On the 17th made as to the carrying out of the enact June last he (Mr. ltea) made certain pro ments bearing upon the squatters. When posals for the appointment of commissioners he put the question to the Minister for to examine into and ascertain what benefit Lands as to whether he was going to cut up the pastoral lessees would each gain in the runs not bid for to 25 square miles saving of carriage and interest of money by each, the only answer he got was-no. these railways, so that it might be seen how If the object of the Ministry had been much they should fairly contribute to to foster population on the coast districts the Trea~ury ; but even that proposition of the colony, what better opportunity would not be entertained by the Govern had any Ministry than they had on that ment, showing conclusively that the coast occasion? But the answer he received towns and other towns of the colony proved that the whole object of the Ministry were to be taxed for these railways that now that they had got into power was to were to be made for the benefit of the do away with all the control of the lands Crown tenants. Therefore, he said hon. of the colony, except by the squatters members on that side of the House had no and for the squatters who supported them. alternative but to vote for the want-of-con It was easy to see that it was owing to the fidence motion, seeing that the Government nature of the followers who supported refused so plainly to put any tax on the them-who left the House during debate, Crown tenants. "\Vhen they came to but at the call of the division bell they examine other parts of the conduct of the strutted in with the aspect of Indian Government, what did they find? vVhen nabobs. But when they came to be ex the question of cutting down high salaries amined beyond the surface, it was found was before the House, the Colonial Secre that they were mere Brummagem, or pew tary said nothing in his life had ever given ter imitations of anything like independent him so much grief as reducing those men. That was what governed this country salaries. He (Mr. Ilea) only wished they now, and he would ask if in any of these had an artist for London Puncl~ there to colonies such a class of supporters of a draw a cartoon depicting, as it ought to be Government would be tolerated for one depicted, this new Jeremiah of Queensland hour P The hon. member for Moreton had in lamentation that was breaking his pointed out that on the Government side of heart. Then they would have depicted the House there were twenty tenants of this new phase of a nation's grief over the Crown out of the whole House. The the reduction of the salaries of a few total number of members was fifty-five, highly paid favourites; they would have and half of that was twenty-seven, so that first a sob and then a hiccup for these un in reality there were only seven members fortunate men. But was there any lamen on the Ministerial side of the House that tation when these men were dismissed from could be called independent members. Ipswich, when it was not a reduction of vV as not that enough to make any man in salary but complete dismissal, so that the House desire to see the colony governed some of them had to sell their cottages and according to the usages of other colonies leave the colony? They heard nothing of No-Confidence Motion. [19 Auausr.] No-Confidence Motion. 1333 the grief then, nothing o£ the Robs, nothing hood o£ some of the principal inland town but the hiccups. That was what was ad ships? In a leading article of that day's dreRsed to the working men, and it was Brisbane paper it was stated that such action only men in high positions luxuriating in "should be specially favoured by the high salaries for whom he felt sym pastoral tenants." But then it went on to pathy. 'l'hen he came to the bank say- business, and he would ask hon. members " Unfortunately, however, there areen same money in their private capacity, and trade an accusation against the late Treasurer with it to their own private advantage and to that he refused to give information in the advanta!;e and profit of their own political London of his intention to put another loan supporters." on the market until the old one was taken That was definite enough, and he chal up. What would people at home say if, lenged the Government to appeal to the before one loan was successfully floated, country on it and see if they would he re another one was launched? They would elected. But their conduct under this say that a Treasurer who did such a thing general vote of want of confidence claimed was neglecting the interests o£ the colony. attention, and it was their whole conduct lion. members opposite, with all their they had now to consider. They refused experience, knew nothing of the way in to admit any further discussion on the which loans were floated. Last year, when question because they knew the more it the present Treasurer brought forward his was stirred the less it smelled like eau-de loan for £3,000,000 and was defeated, when Cologne. They had t0legraphed for their the reasons for rejecting it were made known supporters, and having got them together they at once had the effect of sending up they insisted upon a vote being taken, our debentures; but what would be the altl~ough they refused to take it last week. case when it was known in London that But now they had their supporters together if the Government got hold o£ this money who dare not vote except as they were told they would-and the cat was let out of the -who knew that they would be sold off if bag by the Minister for Lands-place it they attempt0d to vote in any other way where it would bring good interest, not to -they insisted on a vote being taken. the country, hut to the pockets o£ the For that and other reasons he had insisted three members of the Government who on an opportunity being given for a fair were members of a bank directory ? The expression of opinion from hon. members Government might say that they were not on his side of the House. The whole ob going to put into the banks more than was ject of the Government, as stated by the necessary, but he contended that it was leaderof the Opposition, was to get hold of contrary to the principle of the Rouse of the money without making any promises as Commons, or to that of any of the other to how it should be spent. It could colonies, that members of a Government who easily be understood why they had not had the handling of public moneys should brought in any plans or specifications be directors of a banking company. The for their railways, because their object was honourable member for the Mitchell, a few to zig-zag their lines in order to reward evening's ago, when indulging in a tirade their supporters and to punish their op against the Germans, spoke of Queensland ponents. Such being the case, if the Go as being the freest country in the world ; vernment had once the command of that but was a country governed by three money, they might shut the doors for the bank directors worthy of such a name? next three years. Now, what did they would such a thing be tolerated in any reatl of the action of the Government in other colony P ·why, it was placing lately throwing open for selection large members of that Rouse in such a despic. a.:reas of l!md ~n the in1mediate ueighbour• a..ble position t4at they ought to l:!e r-tsht;n:!lel\ 1334 No-Confidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No-Confidence Motion. of their manhood. It was not the immi· sary to still further develop the country. gration question, or the railway question, There should be no limitation of the amount or the bank question, but the whole three to be borrowed ; they might want £5,000,000 together, and the conduct of the gentlemen as well as £3,000,000. Besides this, he placed in authority, that demanded atten did not agree with the ideas of the Pre tion, and he and others would not be doing mier and the Minister for Works, that their duty if they did not speak out in the they could borrow three millions cheaper most unmistakable manner in respect to than they could one million. That was them. He had picked up a piece of paper absurd. They should only borrow what that evening, which he believed would the House would pass, and should not show the whole object of the loan. It was pledge it to any definite amount, and if the in the form of a nursery rhyme as follow~- Opposition allowed the Loan Vote to pass There was a bold Politician, who lived in a Ste\v, the House it would be the ruin of the He'd so many Runs he knew not what to do; He went very far south to get them secured, country. He repeated that he had felt in Bnt when he came back-he found himself floored. clined to vote with the Government, but They'd soon have to be stocked, and were 80 far would not after the manner in which he away, That without long lines of Rails they never would had been treated. He had asked the pay. Premier to allow the debate to be adjourned, So he said to his chums, with you Pll go snacks, and the Premier had said, "No." Re (Mr. If you'll vote straight and square for three Railway Tracks; 8tubley) had then said that he would They threw up their hats, saying, we're in for the obstruct as much as he could, and the spree, ~~"e'll vote for your millions-one, two, or three. Premier replied that he didn't care if he He gave them a wink to attend to his order, (Mr. Stubley) did. He would tell the hon. Saying, "Our runs can't be taxed for they're over the border.'' gentleman that vote should never pass if he could get three hon. members to work Mr. STUBLEY said he had spoken to the with him. leader of the Government at an earlier The PREMIER moved that the leader of period of the evening and asked him to the Opposition be heard in reply. adjourn the debate, and the Premier had Question put and passrd. refused. He (Mr. Stubley) now informed Mr. GRIFFITH: I shall not at this hour the House most emphatically that, as his of the morning say anything like what I request had been refused, he should intended to say. I intended to have said a henceforward be an obstructionist to great deal, but owing to the extraordinary all Government measures. He might or manner in which the debate has been might not vote with the Government on brought to a conclusion it must remain this particular question ; but if he had an unfinished debate. I regret this be been inclined to vote with them the Pre cause it would have been far better if the mier's words would have deterred him. It matter had been thoroughly discussed ancl was a very unjust principle to go on, that fought out-we might then have had a fair because Government had a majority at start afterwards ; but as the Government their back they should force a division to have thought fit to take advantage of their night. That was force purely-there was majority of two or three to prevent that no intellect in it. Government could not conclusion, the consequences must be stand up and fairly argue the question; and thrown upon them. I am sure that by this he was prepared to stake everything he had, time the Premier must have regretted that against an equal sum put down by Govern he permitted his temporary loss of temper ment, and take to a swag to-morrow if he to induce him to insist on the debate being lost, that Government could not construct brought to a conclusion this evening. It the Charters Towers line at anything hke we had given way to the same weakness, £3,000 a-mile. It was perfectlyridiculous to we could have kept the debate going till say so to anyone who knew the country as to-morrow evening without any result at he did, and it showed that they were not all. The matter is one of too great sincere in their intentions by proposing it. importance for tactics of obstruction to The hon. member for the Cook had had the be used on either side, especially the impudence to tell his constituents that to tactics of brute force. I have been get £60,000 for them to be spent in rivers, taunted both in the House and in the bridges, and roads to the diggings was Press with having given no satisfactory nothing to what he would do ; but if he reasons for bringing forward this motion : (Mr. Stubley) had had time to have pre it is hardly necessary for me to justify rared himself, he would have explained the myself on that point, because I consider I whole business of the Government, so gave ample reasons when I introduced it. far as the three-million loan was concerned. If any further reason is necessary I need It was the greatest fallacy po~Hible. Was only say that the whole of the country re it to be thought of for a moment that the gards this proposed policy of the Govern colony should be bound to borrow a certain ment with the greatest alarm. I have amount of money only during the next been accused of being half-hearted in four years ?-for, supposing the mining in this matkr ; but! if so, it is my mis· dustry were to look up, another period of fortune to have appeared ao, £or I was prosperity might set in; and it might beneces· never more thoroughly in earnest thv.n No-Oo1~jidence Motion. [19 AUGUST.] No-Confidence Motjon. 1335 in expressing my condemnation o:f the told that the railway was to be extended proposals of the Government. I am 130 miles; and when I aske!l where it was not, as some of the Ministerial party going to, the only answer I got was that it are, a man who boasts that he has no stake was going to the setting sun. With respect in the colony. I have a stake in the colony, to the extention from Charters Towers, no and I regard the colony as my future information was given. It may be going home, and the welfare of the colony as the north-west, or south-west, or anywhere, and one object which is most my concern in the only answer I got was, an endeavour on this life. I£ ever there was a matter the part ofthe Minister for Works to bring vitally concerning the prospects of a young this side of the House into unpopularity by colony it is a proposal of this kind, which misrepresenting what I said, and implying is a mere leap in the dark-a speculation that I had spoken of the line from Towns like gambling: if it is successfulitwill bring villle to Charters Towers as being quite as us out all right, aud if unsuccessful it absurd as a railway to the moon. What will lead us into financial troubles which I did speak o£ was an extension of may take more than a generation to get rid the line :from Charters Towers to nowhere of. One honourable member this evening in particular. With respect to the Cen -he scarcely deserves notice-suggested tral Railway, we did get some infor that I was in earnest because we thought mation-we were told that it was going that last week we could snatch a majority. due west. We were asked to borrow Cannot that hon. gentleman rise to the £1,200,000 to construct these railways, and conception that his political opponents may the only information given us about be actuated by principles of fair-play P them is that one is going due west and Can he not at least give them credit for that the others are going somewhere. common-sense and prudence ? It is not vVith respect to the charge of insincerity, likely we should be so foolish as to snatch there has been no answer. They have not 11. temporary majority in a thin House, even attempted to show that the proposal more especially when a large majority to make a branch line towards Clermont is of the whole colony condemns the policy other than wholly insincere ; and the same of the Government. It is high time that may be said with respect to the line to the Opposition spoke out as they have !::landgate and the other branch lines. All done, knowing that they have the we are told is, that those lines ought to be country at their back. I have been told made for the money put down against this evening that I do not possess the them, and, if not, they should not be made. confidence of the members of the Opposi Proposals of this kind ought to have been tion. \Vith regard to what has occurred accompanied by definite information as this evening, I would never exercise any to the mode of construction; and the influence I may possess to stifle an im only conclusion we can arrive at is, that portant de bate, and did not do so; but I am in putting :forward those proposals the happy to think that I do possess the confi Government are insincere. I appeal to dence of the gentlemen who work with mg the House, and, if it is against me, to the OR this side of the House. With regard country, for a verdict in this matter. I com to the present motion, I was led to plained, further, that they have proposed no bring it forward because every member means of providing for the payment o:f the of the Opposition agreed that it was interest on the proposed loan. Some sort our imperative duty to place on record of answer has been attempted to be made our disapproval o:f the rash and reckless to that, but to the other charges none what policy of the Government. When I ever. The Colonial Treasurer tells us a brought this motion forward I gave in sub large loan is necessary-for what ?-to stance three reasons why we should disap keep the workmen now employed by the prove of the proposals of the Government. Government still going. To borrow money The first was because their proposals were for such a policy is absolutely ruinous, indistinct, indefinite, unuertain, unknown, ancl the sooner we abandon it the better. and undecipherable ; secondly, because But I do not believe the money is wanted they were insincere with respect to a very for any such purpose, for if it were so not nnportant part of their policy; and thirdly, more than £418,000 of the whole amount because there was no accompanying finan could be applied to it. All the rest of the cial policy, as there ought to have been. money could not be employed until Parlia What answer has been made to those ment has met next year and approved of charges P N opublic works policy can be satis the plans-until the land has been resumed factory to any intelligent legislature or com and the contracts let, which cannot be until munity unless it combines those three quali the end o£ next year at the earliest. Not ties. It must be distinct, sincere, and accom a farthing of the rest could be employed for panied by a proposal to pay the interest on the purpose suggested, and must, if bor tbe added indebtedness. With respect rowed, lie idle in the banks. to the charge of indefiniteness, there has The PREMIER : No. been absolutely no answer made. I com Mr. GRH'FITH; vVe will take the items plained that we did not know where the seriati1n. There is the extension from ext~nsion from Romn, was to go to, \Ve were Roma. It is impossi1Jle that any money 1336 No-Confidence Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] No- Confidence Motion. can be spent on that until the end o£ next regard to the Central line we are told year at the earliest. As to the Pxtension that when completed it will pay, and o£ the Central Railway to Retreat, we know we were given statistics to show that there are no plans ready, and the work there are at the present time 3,000,000 cannot be authorised till next year; if it shee]) in the Mitchell and Gregory dis can we do not know, because, although we tricts, that in five years they will have have asked, we have obtained no information multiplied to 12,000,000, and by that time about it. On the extension of the Northern the freight on the wool from the 12,000,000 Railway, we know it will not be wanted for will pay the interest on the money. But three or four vears. The only money who is going to pay the interest during available for the purpose of keeping the the next five years? From where, also, men going is the £418,000 for compl<>ting did the Minister for Works get his figures P works already begun. With respect to the The Treasurer's tables state the number of branch lines, none of them c~n be autho sheep in that district at 1,500,000 and not rised till next year, and most of them 3,000,000. \Vhat becomes of the hon. are not even surveyed yet. Yet we are told gentleman's calculations then? that whether we can spend the money pro The J\'i:INISTER FOR W onKs : The War fitably or not we must have it. We rego district. are next told, " This is your own policy ; Mr. GRIFFITH : Oh, I did not under why are you attacking it?" In my stand that the Central line was to go into opening speech I distinctly declined to the \V arrego district. If that is the case, say who were the originators of the policy, it is new light on the subject. In the because that is a matter entirely outside course of five years, if all goes well, the the question. The charges I made against freight may pay the interest for these lines. the present policy, however, are none I believe they ~will ultimately be reproduc of them applicable to the policy of the tive or I should neYer have advocated late Government, which was definite and their construction ; but we are all agreed sincere, and included a scheme for meeting that they will not be so immediatPly. It the interest on the loan. \Vhat I object to is idle for the pre>;;ent purpose to say they is the absence in the present policy of all will some day be reproductive, and equally those qualities which made the policy of the idle to say that \,he present lines pay 3} late Gonrnment worthy of consideration. per cent. \Ve know they do not do so. The Then we are told that plans are not neces Minister for V{orks has been continually sary-that the New South \Valc8 Parlia harping upon the fact that they do not pay. ment has voted seven million without It is even now a question, at the present low having any plans. What miserable quib rates, whetl1er bullock-drays may not suc bling[ We do not object because there are cesHfully compete with the railway between no plans on the table of the House, but Charleville and Dalby. Under these cir because we are not told where the railways cumstances, no sane man having any re are to go to. The New South \Vales Gov gard for the interest of the country can pro ernment did not ask for a million for a pose to borrow these large sums of money line from Tamworth to the moon. They without making also a proposition as to how asked for money for a line from Tamworth to the interest is to be paid meanwhile to Tenterfield-a rational proposition worthy prevent us :from getting into inextricable of being submitted to rational men. Such financial difficulties. \Ve know, and the a line might deviate a few miles one side or Government know, although they have not other of the coach road, but it would, at the courage to make the proposition, that least, connect two towns. With reFpect someone will have to make it. They know to revenue, we have been told that no the money to pay the interest will have to additional source of revenue will be be found, but they put off the evil day. required. The Colonial Treasurer says the One hon. member told us to-night that land revenue will be sufficient. If we ask when we come into power we ean do where he is going to get it, he simply says- it ; and no doubt that expresses the views " Trust me; it's all right!" But where is of the Government. They say-" Give it P We are told the lint's will be repro us the money and let others pay for ductive; and I admit that if they will it; ll'"e shall have the money and certain be at once reproductive, asking wlwre advantages app<>rtaining to it." I cto not the interest is to come from is an idle m<>an to say advantages for themselves, question. The branch-line }Jropositions but :for those parts o:f the country they are so transparently insincere that they more partir,ularly represent. I call that do not deserve further discussion. I wish rank cowardice. It is trusting to the to consider the trunk lines, for which :future, like a reckless spendthrift or we are asked to borrow £1,200,000. vYc gambler. VVhen we were in office we know the 130 miles extension to the wes proposed ccrt!1in m0ans of paying th1> tern line cannot be completed within five interest, and i:f they were insufficient years of the present time, and who is the mistake was an honest one ; and to pay the intere8t in the meantime ? that principle of the railway reserves will The extension from Clmrtcrs Towers, yet have to be applied to pay the hi~ !J,loo1 r;an~ot be :mnde in les~ time. With terest on the construction of f.4!'!~e railway~ 1 Xo-Oor~:fidence Motion. [19 AuGUST.] No-Con;fidence Motion. 1337 No one knows that better than the hon. The PREMIER : I accepted the challenge, gentleman at the head of the Government. and said I would put the papers upon tht> The Minister for Works tells us the lines table. will be immediately reproductive, but the Mr. GRIFFITH : The papers have not Premier proposes to pay interest on them out been put upon the table yet, and there has of land sales. Where would the price been plenty of time to do so ; but I have a come from in the present state of the shrewd suspicion that we shall not see colony? We shall be repeating the process those papers. Then we were told the going on in New South "\Vales-the money astounding fact that grass rentals alone borrowed will go into the banks. vV c have hitherto paid the interest on all our shall want £100,000 a year more to keep railway loans. Why did the hon. gentle going. To get that extra £100,000, man not say that the interest had been land will l1e placed in the market. The all paid out of Customs or Excise P It squatters will buy the land and pay is all moonshine. There is not even a for it by overdrafts at the banks made correspondence in amounts. I agree that out of this very money. In thiR way a the interest of this loan ought to be paid portion of this money will be credited to out of grass rents, and will l1a>e to be revenue as well as to loan. AR well as stand paid out of such rents some day. At ing in the banks to the credit of the Gov this time of night I shall not say any ernment loan account, it will stand there to thing about the proper mode of raising the Government revenue account. The the interest upon this loan. If the money land will be sold nominally for cash, but is voted it is clear the interest will have really on credit to the banks. The money to be raised, and it must come from will be doing double duty-apparently the western lands. I have waited in a large sum -n·ill be in the banks to vain for any light to be thrown by the the eredit of the Government when there Government upon this subject. I shall will be really none at all. Then, he take the opportunity, when the House says, a great advantage will be gained is more willing to listen and I am more by borrowing one loap in three instal fit to speak, to say something more upon ments. The position takl'l1 up by the Oppo the subject. l t is sufficient now to say that sition to borrow a bout one million at a time the Government have made no proposal as wanted is objected to, but what con whatever for the raising of this interest. ceivable advantage can there be in going into "\Ye have had some vague apologies; the the money -market and saying, " "\V e are hon. member for Ipswich, Mr. Thompson, going to borrow three millions, but only whom I am very glad to see back again, want one million this year?" "\Vhat shall justified himself for Yoting against this we gain by authorising a loan of three motion on the ground that it did not much millions except that the Government will matter-that the Government deserved a gain the ad>antage of being able to further trial becausetheywere doing very un borrow the whole amount at once; and popular work; and, really, that this motion seeing the way loans are floated in Lon was rendered necessary to complete the don, there may be a syndicate to float six lines the present Opposition initiated the whole loan at once. If so, the bulk when in office. But the hon. gentleman of the money will remain idle, and we forgets that the completion of these lines shall pay interest on it. If we are to forms no part of the policy challenged in borrow three millions, what ran we gain by this debate. Virhat is objected to is, that pledging ourselves for three years to borrow the Government have brought forward no no more during that period P Is there any. propos.ition for paying the interest on the thing rational in this ? The real facts are, new lmPs. The hon. member for Cook that the amounts put down are admittedly said that the debate had been a waste inadequate for the work they have to do. of time. I do not think it has been. I Either the Government will be prevented believe a good deal of light has been from carrying out these works, or they thrown upon the matter during this dis will be compelled to go to the money cussion. One thing at least has bePn market within three years. I shall not proved-that of all the members on the follow the Minister for '\V orks through his Government side of the House, not two elaborate attempts to prove that these lines haYe been found to get up and say they will pay. He told us about ch0ap lines in cordially agree with the policy of the Victoria made for less than £3,000 a-mile, Government. At any rate, not more than including rolling-stock and permanent-way. two agreed with it as a whole-thus have The facts are, that up to the present time the " damned it with faint praise ; " others do cheapest line let in Victoria is for £3,300 not approve of this or that; and others per mile, exclusive o£ rolling-stock and per have maintained a discreet silence, though, manent-way. That is the last information no doubt, in committee they will venture received by anyone but the Minister for to speak. Although the division may Works ; and as the Minister for vV orks be against me now-not, however, by a declined my challenge to give the name of strong majority-I have no doubt the re the milway hr mnst take the cou~~quences. sult will l.Je t'o show the country that th~ 1338 No-Co1ifi,rlenee Motion. [ASSEMBLY.] Petition. proposals of the Government are wholly Question-That the Speaker do now leavE' insufficient ; that the Government have the chair and thE' House resolve itself into shown an utter absence of recognition Committee of Supply-put and passed. of the real necessities of the case-neces The PREMIER moved that a sum not ex sities incumbent upon any Government ceeding £100,000 be granted from Loan for that proposes a loan policy of this mag Immigration. nitude. Under these circumstances we On the motion of the CoLONIAL SECRE should have been wanting in our duty as TARY, the Chairman left the Chair, re an Opposition if we had not pointed this ported no progress, and obtained leave to out. I£ we are beaten we shall make the sit again at a later hour of the day. best of it. We shall endeavour to save the country from being ruined. We shall The PREMIER, in moving the adjourn endeavour to force upon the Government ment of the House, said it had not been some rational means of paying the in the custom to register pairs made on im terest on this loan. It has been said portant divisions. There was one made in that I said, on bringing forward this the last division, and it was important it motion, that I did not desire to carry it. should be made known and recorded. I said nothing of the kind. I do de Mr. Paterson, for the Opposition, paired sire most heartily to carry it, although I with Mr. Swanwick, for the Government. did say that I had no desire at this time The SPEAKER said it was agreed the to accept the responsibilities of office ; but other day that in cases where there were in bringing forward a motion of this kind pairs they would be recorded in " V otPs and I am perfectly aware of the responsibilities Proceedings," if handed in writing to the I undertake, and I am bound to accept Clerk, but not otherwise. He did not know them. I feel it is a very grave responsi whether the pair referred to had been bility to bring forward a motion of this handed in. kind, but circumstances justify it and The PRE:lliER said he was not aware of render it imperative. There was no alter the rule. He would now ask whether it native, and I repeat we should have would be sufficient if the pair were handed been wanting in our duty if we had in to-morrow ? not pointed out the defects of the Gov The SPEAKER said that if the notice were ernment policy, and I have no doubt that handed in writing it would be inserted. these defects will be remedied - not Question put and passed, and the House remedied this session, perhaps-but I adjourned at five minutes to 2 o'clock a.m. ]mow that the defects pointed out to-night will be remedied, and that the Govern ment will have to give us some definite statement as to their intentions. They will be bound to show their sincerity, or the money for these insincere propositions will not be voted. As to the rest they will be compelled, either with or against their will, to make some rational proposition to relieve the finances of the colony from the con fusion in which they will fall if their pre sent reckless and ill-considered proposals are carried into effect. Question-That the words proposed to be omittted stand part of the question put. The House divided :- AYEs, 26. Messrs. A. H. Palmer, Mcilwraith, Pm·kins, Macrossan, Cooper, Persse, Beor, Hamilton, Archer, H. W. Palmer, Simpson, Thompson, Lalor, Amlmrst, Baynes, Shea:ffe, Mm·ehead, Stevenson, Kellett, Stevens, O'Sullivan, Hill, Low, Walsh, Norton, and J. Scott. NoEs, 23. Messrs. Garri~k, Griffith, Dickson, McLean, Meston, Rea, Thorn, Rutledge, Bailey, Douglas, Macfarlane (Ipswich), Miles, Kingsford, Kates, Mackay, Grimes, Hendren, Stubley, Beattie, Price, Tyrel, Groom, and Horwitz. Question, therefore, resolved in the ll.ffirmative,