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Season 3, Episode 33: Reckoning with Romance - Guest Rebekah Hoffer

Mon, 3/29 • 47:03

Kaytee Cobb 00:10 Hi, readers, welcome to the Currently Reading podcast. We are bookish best friends who spend time every week talking about books that we've read recently. And as you know, we do not shy away from having strong opinions. So get ready. We are light on the chitchat, heavy on the book talk, and our descriptions will always be spoiler free. We'll discuss our current reads, a bookish deep dive, and then we'll press books into your hands. I'm Kaytee Cobb, a homeschooling of four living in New Mexico and books can always make me feel some kind of way. I'm here today with Rebekah Hoffer, who lives in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, with her husband and three kids. She is a regular co-host on the Sorta Awesome podcast and blogs at simplyrebekah.com. Rebecca, welcome to Currently Reading.

Rebekah Hoffer 00:53 Thank you so much for having me, Kaytee.

Kaytee Cobb 00:55 Thanks for being here. This is episode number 33 of season three. And listeners, we are also so glad that you are here. So today with Rebekah, we wanted to do this episode together. Because as Meredith has mentioned before, she has a cold dead heart and does not read romance. But . And Rebekah does. And we have some things and some thoughts that we want to share about it. So that's gonna be our deep dive today. Are you excited, Rebekah? Nervous?

Rebekah Hoffer 01:21 I cannot wait. I really truly, I'm so excited for this.

Kaytee Cobb 01:24 She's so excited. I'm so glad. And just so everybody knows, if we mention any kind of romance terms in our current reads today, we will absolutely get to those during the deep dive. So if you're feeling a little or anything, don't worry, we're going to cover all of it. It'll be great. But first, we're going to get started the way we always do, which is with a bookish moment of the week. And Rebekah, as my guest, I would love for you to go first.

Rebekah Hoffer 01:47 Well, thank you, Kaytee. So my bookish moment of the week is that I am celebrating meeting my reading goal for 2020 and not even realizing it.

1 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kaytee Cobb 01:57 for 2020 or 2021?

Rebekah Hoffer 01:59 2020. Here's the story. Okay. I never set reading goals. Okay. But after I started turning towards reading as my main form of escape in 2020, I decided to set myself a small goal that was pretty sure I was gonna hit. And then I didn't. And it wasn't until I was preparing for this podcast that I've realized I had left a couple of books off of my reading log. And surprise. Here we are a quarter into 2021 nearly and I suddenly realized I met my reading goal for last year.

Kaytee Cobb 02:34 Well, that's a fun little happy dance. I love that.

Rebekah Hoffer 02:37 Yeah, that's how I felt. I was like, surprise, surprise. Look at me. I did it after all.

Kaytee Cobb 02:44 Okay, can you tell me how do you track your books? Or you are a spreadsheet user, a Goodreads user? How do you keep track of them that you would have forgotten that you read some books?

Rebekah Hoffer 02:53 I am exactly one year into a reading log. Okay, I never because I didn't read very much before 2020. So I decided once I started reading so much in 2020. I was like, I'm curious how many I've read. So I just keep a list in my bullet journal. And then for I would say like work related purposes, as being a podcaster and a blogger, I take photos of most of the books that I read. Whether I end up sharing them on social media or not is like a whole other thing. But it was in going back through my photos that I realized, Oh, wait, I I actually I didn't put this one in my reading log. And so I found three that were missing from my reading log, and boom, I hit my goal.

Kaytee Cobb 03:36 Awesome. That's, that's like retroactive winning.

Rebekah Hoffer 03:41 Exactly. Yes.

Kaytee Cobb 03:42 Perfect. Okay, my bookish moment for the big readers out there is going to be like a duh for a lot of people. But for me, it's the first time that I have used interlibrary loan. So I've always had a pretty good library. I like using the digital services. So I don't do a lot of paper picking up especially because our library is still closed. So I can't go in and browse and chat with my favorite librarians and such. But I had a book recommended to me that I could not find anywhere. So one of our one of our Instagram followers, rclark411, sent me this title, and said, I think you would really love this it has all your scent and your vibes that you love. And I couldn't find it at on Libby. I couldn't find it at my library. I couldn't even find the audio on Libro FM, I was willing to spend a credit on it. Nothing. So I used interlibrary

2 Transcribed by https://otter.ai loan, and I got a copy from the High Plains Library District which serves all these tiny towns in Colorado. So I have a book now at my house that doesn't even belong in my state. And it just makes me so happy.

Kaytee Cobb 04:43 That's fantastic. My sister was just telling me that she got a cookbook from Virginia. We're in Pennsylvania, and she got a cookbook from Virginia through interlibrary loan and I thought to myself, I forget about Interlibrary loan all the time. Why don't I utilize it more?

Kaytee Cobb 05:00 It's so cool. I love that libraries want to play nice with each other and let each other borrow their their book collections. I think that's so great. I'm very excited about it. All right, so now we're gonna get into current reads Rebekah. And that means we're going to go back and forth about something we've been reading lately, and I cannot wait to hear what you're bringing to the show. So what is your first current read this week? Is it one of the three that you found magically last year?

Kaytee Cobb 05:27 No, it's one that I just read here in 2021, actually, so it is the book I've Got Your Number by Sophie Kinsella. This is a closed door contemporary romance. And I loved this book so much that I just made it my awesome of the week on the Sorta Awesome podcast, which I'm a co-host for. So here's, let me explain to you. So Poppy is engaged to the ideal man. He's handsome and incredibly smart. Very well off. And at the start of the book, Poppy loses her engagement ring at a hotel event. While looking for the ring, her phone is stolen. So how will the hotel staff call her to tell her they found her ring if she doesn't have a phone? Well as luck would have it, she finds a phone in the trash can and claims it as her own.

Kaytee Cobb 06:14 Because it's romance and that's what happens.

Rebekah Hoffer 06:16 You have to suspend disbelief just a little bit sometimes in romance. So the actual owner of the phone is a businessman named Sam. His assistant quit and trashed the phone. Now Sam is not pleased with Poppy taking over his assistant's phone. But Poppy promises to forward Sam all the messages if he will just let her borrow the phone until her engagement ring is found. So Poppy and Sam end up meddling in each other's lives and really unexpected ways as they navigate sharing a cell phone. So there there's always some predictability to a happily ever after romance. But this book surprised me several times. There were times I found myself like shaking my head at Poppy's choices, but her intentions were always really pure, and I found myself really rooting for her. So it was a surprising book. It was a delightful book. It was a low stakes high reward book. Again, it's a closed door romance. There's absolutely zero sex in it. And it is titled I've Got Your Number by Sophie Kinsella.

Kaytee Cobb 07:20 That is very fun. Okay, my first one this week is called Honey Girl by Morgan Rogers. And I did of course, selectively go through some of my recent reads to make sure that I got to talk about romance a

3 Transcribed by https://otter.ai little bit with you. So this one is billed as LGBT romance. But that is not where I would shove it in the bookstore. And I ended up being surprised about that. Our main character is named Grace Porter. She has just graduated with a PhD in astronomy. And she goes on a girls weekend to Vegas to celebrate. Very first chapter, she wakes up next to a woman that she married last night and cannot remember her name. Fantastic. Right? So and this is not how Porter behaves. And she goes she is often referred to as Porter because her dad is ex-military. And he even refers to her Porter that's not how a Porter behaves, right. So she she this is not this is not her MO. She does not like do anything spur of the moment. Her life is very well planned out. This sends her down a I would call it an identity crisis rabbit hole. Is this career right for her? Who's the rando that she married? What will her ex-military father think? This book is mostly about Grace, finding herself and really taking the time to like go to therapy, figure out what she wants in life, why it's a little bit coming of age at 28. Because you know, people who go to school for a really long time, sometimes they don't come of age because they're spending so much time in that like school environment. She runs away from her life, she explores new cities, new possibilities, all while trying to manage these family expectations that are essentially crippling. And adulthood is catching up to her quick. She's super not ready for it. There is at the very crux, some romance in this book, which is why it is shelved as a romance. But that is not the thrust of the story. And yes, I did use thrust in this description. It does technically meet all of our requirements for what counts as a romance novel, but really, I would count it as so much more than that, and not in a bad way. But if you go into it thinking that this is a novel about a relationship between these two women, you're going to be disappointed because it's really about Grace. It's really about her life and her choices and her coming of age. So that was Honey Girl by Morgan Rogers.

Rebekah Hoffer 09:42 Fantastic. I have not read that one.

Kaytee Cobb 09:44 Okay, so what is your second current read?

Rebekah Hoffer 09:46 Well, my second one is one that I discovered that was off of my reading list from 2020. And it is one of my favorite books that I read last year.

Kaytee Cobb 09:54 And you forgot?

Rebekah Hoffer 09:55 I know, right? Okay, I'm new with this reading log. You gotta have some grace with me. Okay, so the book is the Happy Ever After Playlist by Abby Jimenez.

Kaytee Cobb 10:06 I love this book.

4 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Rebekah Hoffer 10:08 It's so good. It is an open door contemporary romance. And this is the sequel to the book The Friend Zone. So you could read Happy Ever After Playlist as a standalone, but I also loved The Friend Zone and it does help provide some helpful context. So I recommend starting there, although it's not necessary. So Sloan has been struggling with life and I'm keeping it vague for those who want to read The Friend Zone first, but frankly, she's not in a good place. Okay. Until one day she finds a lost dog. And the owner Jason happens to be an up and coming musician who is on tour. Sloan and Jason develop a flirty relationship while she takes care of his dog until he finishes his tour. Sloan needs to ask herself some big questions now. Can she pull herself out of the depression and start living life again? Can she handle the pressure of dating a famous musician? This book has a great slowburn and Kaytee, one thing that I've discovered that I really love in a romance book is when the male lead is passionately into the female lead. There is something so hot about a man desperately wanting a woman and that is this book. Jason is patient. He is kind and he is unyielding in his devotion to Sloan. He isn't pushy or obnoxious. He is confident in the sexiest way possible. I love him in this book so much.

Kaytee Cobb 11:45 I love him too. I love I love just the very first part, the setup of this book, the dog jumps in through Sloan's sunroof. Which is like, I love that setup. I just thought it was so fun. And then you know Jason is across... he's over in Australia, right? He is really far away. And somebody's supposed to be dog sitting for him.

Rebekah Hoffer 12:06 And they've neglected the situation. The dog is lost. They did not find the dog. She has the dog and tries multiple times to reach the owner not knowing who he was. And he's not answering her calls. So she develops a real like love and affection for the dog. And he's like, Oh no, I need my dog back. And Sloan's, like, No, no, no, no, no, this is my dog now.

Kaytee Cobb 12:26 convince me that you love this dog. Oh, yes. I loved I loved the entire inception for this book. And it's fun because it's called The Happy Ever After Playlist and it has a playlist of songs. Did you listen to any other songs that go across with it?

Rebekah Hoffer 12:39 I did not know. I? I know I should. I know that it's like intentional. It's like an added element.

Kaytee Cobb 12:46 You don't want the multimedia experience for your romance books?

Rebekah Hoffer 12:49 I mean,

Kaytee Cobb 12:51 It's too much I understand.

5 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Rebekah Hoffer 12:52 So again, the book is called The Happy Ever After Playlist by Abby Jimenez. Again, it is a sequel. You can read it alone, but I do truly recommend The Friend Zone first, if you have an interest, It's it's worth reading both.

Kaytee Cobb 13:06 My second read this week is a book of short stories and essays, and it is called Intimations by Zadie Smith. So it kind of fits with our little romance theme here because intimations sounds intimate. I read this book in February. And I read it as a buddy read with our Bookish Friends, which are the patrons of Currently Reading we had, it's only 94 pages long. It's this teeny tiny little book. Zadie Smith put it together and published it after quarantine started, which today when we're recording is barely after our one year anniversary, right? So I just got to discuss this with the Bookish Friends. And it felt very timely to sit there and say, Wow, these were the thoughts a year ago. Here's how things have changed since then,]. Here's what we thought was going to happen at the beginning of quarantine, the way that, you know, maybe the US was going to come together or the world was going to come together in this way. And then it turned divisive, and it turned political. And it just we had amazing conversations about it. This book, like I said, it's not long, it's 94 pages. On audio, it's less than two hours. But there are a couple essays in here that make the entire reading experience worth it. There's one that's called Suffering Like Mel Gibson, which is about being a mom during quarantine, or having a different quarantine situation than someone else that you're talking to. Right so it's it connects I promise. [inaudible chatter], Kaytee. It's referencing a meme. But the the crux of the essay is anybody experiencing anything can be suffering, even though compared to someone else, your suffering might be different, or it might be not as much you know, and we tend to discount it like a well mine's not as bad because I'm not a frontline health care worker having to work 48 hours a day. But I am a mom of three quarantining with three kids in Pennsylvania. And that's a different kind of suffering. And the way that she lays it out for us, oh, gosh, it's so beautiful. It's giving me goosebumps, just to think about that essay again. And then the second one that I really, really loved that I have to talk about is called Contempt As A Virus. Oh my gosh, this one's amazing. So it's talking about the way that the virus has spread through the , right. But it's also talking about the way that contempt spreads from person to person and the way that, you know, you might have somebody in your bubble. And that's who's gonna catch your beliefs and your behaviors and the way that you talk about other people, and the way that you treat other people. It is incredible. It is incredible. Mostly, I felt like Zadie Smith is too smart for me. She is like Harvard educated, completely brilliant, amazing writer, way over my head for a lot of these but those two essays, I would, I would reread the entire book just for those two, they are stunning.

Rebekah Hoffer 16:05 I got chills so many times while you were talking. And I I think there is, I wouldn't, the word isn't magical. But there's some there's like, I feel like there's like a special place of honor where we need to hold on to these feelings and these emotions from the past year, and especially even like early quarantine, like when I think back on it. Yeah, it's almost like we need a special place of honor for that experience. And while I was listening to you, it just felt like we're seeing like that moment in time is feeling seen and understood and heard. And I think that there's so much power in that. And I don't know how we process

6 Transcribed by https://otter.ai this whole year and move forward. But I think works like this are things that are going to help propel us towards healing. And I'm yeah, I'm excited to to dig into this. I need to read this Mel Gibson.

Kaytee Cobb 16:57 Mel Gibson. I'm gonna make sure you get a copy because it's, it's so good. Okay, so that was Intimations by Zadie Smith, and it's so tiny and beautiful, and just delectable. And I just, I want everybody to read it, even if it feels like it's too smart for you. So, with that in mind, what's your third book, Rebekah?

Rebekah Hoffer 17:15 Okay, I'm so excited to talk about this third book. It is called Not What I Expected by Jewel E. Ann. It's an open door contemporary romance. It was recommended to me as an enemies to lovers age gap romance. And although this book was engaging, I did not love it.

Kaytee Cobb 17:34 I love your spicy opinion. Yes,

Rebekah Hoffer 17:37 it was not what I expected. And that is why I'm so excited to talk about it. Because, yeah, here on Currently Reading, you're not going to shy away from this, like, I'm allowed to say when I don't like a book. And I didn't like this book. So let me break down the plot, and then I'll explain why I didn't love it. So Elsie is 42 years old and wants out of her 22 year long marriage. After an explosive argument, she tells her husband that she wants to divorce, he storms off, and he ends up being killed in a car accident. Like that same exact night. Now Elsie is left to put together the pieces of her life to grieve the husband that she had wanted to divorce. And she busies herself by running the family store, when a competing store opens up just across the square. The new store, it's hip, it's popular at attracting all of her customers. And it's run by Kael, who is 30, incredibly well liked in the community, and unbelievably sexy, of course. Now, for what I don't like about the book. There's an author's note at the beginning of the book that says, this story began with a request to my readers: tell me what drives you crazy about your significant other, your responses turned into this women's fiction novel. So then she took those responses. And she had them highlighted as a little blurb at the beginning of every chapter. And then as you read the chapter, those words somehow found their way within the context and the language within that chapter. So an example from one of the chapters was I married a slurper. And now I want to murder him every morning. So now I can see how this book would be really good for someone who has lost a spouse, or walked through divorce, because it truly is about the complexities of grieving an imperfect person, which, frankly, we all are right? So it's about grieving an imperfect person. It's about rebuilding your life and opening yourself up to love again. However, as a happily married woman, and someone who wants to stay that way, starting each chapter with a gripe about the annoying things that husbands do. Well, let's just say this book didn't give me any warm and fuzzy feelings about my own husband. Sometimes romance sparks a little bit in your marriage. This one this one did not. I feel like I was grumpier with my husband, Nate, the entire time I was reading this book.

7 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kaytee Cobb 20:17 Oh, man, I bet Nate really, usually appreciates that you read ro- romance. And on this one, he was like, Can you put that one down? Go away.

Rebekah Hoffer 20:25 No, he knew that it was like, linked back to the book. But in general, Nate does not complain about my reading choices. But this one didn't do us any favors. So it really was like a good book. I think it could be really healing and validating for people who have especially walked through a similar circumstance. However, it was not for me. And again, it was called Not What I Expected by Jewel E. Ann.

Kaytee Cobb 20:54 And that's interesting. The the very beginning of it. To me, it sounded a little bit like Evvie Starts Over by Linda Holmes. Have you heard that?

Rebekah Hoffer 21:03 Yeah. And I loved that book

Kaytee Cobb 21:05 Yeah, and and I'm guessing that the big difference there was exactly what you're talking about those gripes at the beginning of the chapter really changed the experience for you?

Rebekah Hoffer 21:13 Yeah, it was like reading a book about the annoying parts about being married, right? With some like hot young sex on the side. You know, like, that's not like what's gonna help my own marriage.

Kaytee Cobb 21:25 That's like gas pedal and brake, brake. That's rough. Okay. So my third current read this week is called A Pho Love Story by Loan Le. This story is a delight. I cannot wait to tell you about it. Okay, so the caveat here at the outset is this. You need to have familiarized yourself with your nearest Vietnamese restaurant, before you sit down to read this book. Because the food in this one, you're going to need all of it. You need the pho, the banh mi, the boba drink, all of it, you need it. So you have to already have that phone number in your phone, so you know who to call when you start craving.

Rebekah Hoffer 22:07 So instead of hitting a playlist,

Kaytee Cobb 22:09 Exactly, listen, your playlist here is the Vietnamese menu,

Rebekah Hoffer 22:12 the food, okay.

8 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kaytee Cobb 22:14 Okay, so our main characters are Bao, and Linh. and their families own competing Vietnamese restaurants across the street from each other. They can see the other restaurant through the front window. There's a lot of animosity, they're not just like, oh, they're in competition for our thing, business, but like, do not speak that name in front of me, animosity. It's a very harsh sentiment between them. But Linh and Bao end up working together on a project at school, and they start to fall for each other. And despite and this is all despite their parents dire warnings and the family feud that promises to keep them apart. Each of them has dreams of their own that don't fall within the ideal life that their parents have set up for them. So this is a lot of like, first generation, second generation immigration story. Some of that, like Asian model minority myth comes into play here. There's internal and external tension for each character. The audio book is narrated by two narrators. And that was also excellent, because then you've got a girl voice and a boy voice to help you keep them apart. One thing about the audio book, or the paper book is that Vietnamese is sprinkled throughout, and it's not, you know, translated in parentheses afterwards. So you have to pay attention, you have to use context, or you have to say, I'm not going to understand what's going on there if you're not a Vietnamese speaker, which I am not. So just to be clear there. I did get some vibes of like a YA version of You Got Mail, or maybe an updated Vietnamese version of Romeo and Juliet. Except without the tragedy at . Nobody dies. This is a YA romance, very tame, there's some kissing. But if you're looking for like sweet romance without the sex, this one is totally for you. And again, if you're looking for Vietnamese food, you're gonna want to know that going and because the pho, the spring rolls, the banh mi, the boba, all of it, you need it immediately. It's part of the experience. Just know that going in. So that is A Pho Love Story by Loan Le.

Rebekah Hoffer 24:16 How fantastic. I haven't heard that one. Thank you so much, Kaytee.

Kaytee Cobb 24:19 That one is pretty new. And I so I, here's my little personal story about this one. My husband and I, when we went on our very first date, we went and got pho. So when I first saw like the pre-release about this book coming out, I was like, a follow up story. That's my love story. I need that book.

Rebekah Hoffer 24:37 I love that so much.

Kaytee Cobb 24:39 It's so fun. Those were our six current reads. So now we get to talk a little bit or a lot of it about romance. And I am excited. Let's start with actually let's start with some terms because we kind of teased this at the beginning. We talked a little bit about open door we mentioned a couple tropes we mentioned contemporary, I think all of our romances that we've talked about so far. today were contemporary. Let's do a little primer here. So first open door versus closed door. Rebekah, why don't you give us a little lesson here?

9 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Rebekah Hoffer 25:09 Okay, so I think I actually learned this term from you when you were on the Sorta Awesome podcast. So this is just a confession to you is that you and Meredith were on an episode of the podcast Sorta Awesome in March 2019. And it was called The Complete Guide to What to Read in 2019. And so many of those books I ended up reading that year. And it really is what propelled me, you had recommended The Bride Test by Helen Hoang. And I think that was one of the first like spicy contemporary open door romances where I was like, wait, wait, wait, all my books be like this, is this what I've been missing out on. And that was just 2019. And then 2020 came, and I was like, I need some major escape in my life. As we all do. This is all I want. Now, this is all I'm going to read. A big difference here is that we need to know open door versus closed door, because that can really affect what you're getting into. Basically, the concept of a closed door romance means that once things start to get heated up, the two main characters, they they essentially go behind a closed door, all of the most intimate action is taking place off the page, your reader is not in the bedroom, to be exposed to all of the details, and an open door of romance. It's the opposite, where the reader is kind of welcomed into the bedroom through the open door to experience along with the main characters, a lot more intimate details of their sexual experience. Now, of course, there can be some varying degrees, are you open and closed door? And some books may have just like one open door scene, and others may have a plethora of open door scenes. So there there's a variety there. But that's essentially what we're talking about closed door versus open door.

Kaytee Cobb 27:05 Yes, absolutely. And that's a really good point, because you could have an open door romance, where all of that action takes place at 90% of the book, right. And I think up to that point has been tension building. And if you're not an open door reader, you can read that entire book and then say, good to get to do I'm going to skip those 20 pages. And now we're back to closed door romance, right?

Rebekah Hoffer 27:27 Yes, yes, exactly.

Kaytee Cobb 27:28 So it's really good to know, not just the designation of open door and closed door, how much detail there is in those scenes. But how many of those scenes are there? And

Rebekah Hoffer 27:38 because sometimes it's like you said sometimes it's in the last 10% of the book. Sometimes it opens up with like a one night stand. And you're right there in the midst of it. I was reading a book with a friend and she was joking with me. She's like, man, I just love the slow burn in this book. And it was a joke, because there like was literally no, it was like boom, right? No, it was like, boom, in your face. One nightstand? Zero waiting for anything. Here we go. We're getting into it.

Kaytee Cobb 28:05 Wow. Yeah. And that's, that's absolutely one way you could start it out. So what about some tropes? You mentioned contemporary already? Obviously, that's in contrast to historical romance. Right. Right. And then there's also you mentioned, enemies to lover age gap. Right? A lot of these are really self

10 Transcribed by https://otter.ai explanatory, but it can be really helpful to know what kind of romance floats your boat, right? What kind of tropes are interesting to you, as a romance reader? I know, I remember you talking a little bit on Sorta Awesome, it may have been an overflow, that you like the conflict for your romance protagonists to be external to them. Not like I have all this mess to work through in my life, but there's something outside of us that's keeping us apart.

Rebekah Hoffer 28:52 Yes, exactly. So I I tend to lean more towards tropes, that maybe society has some issues around this relationship being appropriate or working out so that that could involve like age gap, or, like a common one with that kind of conflict would be like a T shirt student type of trope. We're talking college level consenting adults, not like ickyness Okay, let's make that clear. Things like that. Even even ones where it could be like, like a, like a biracial couple, you know, like there's, there's something outside the norm of what people are expecting in society. I also really like, like a forced proximity trope, where maybe people want to order yeah, stuck in an elevator, stuck on an island, or maybe they are somebody is pretending to be a fiance or a girlfriend, and they have to play along and then the feelings develop. I like how that conflict can be external versus I'm broken, nobody nobody should love me, I don't deserve love, right. And there's nothing wrong with those books, but I just kind of prefer the main source of the conflict to be outside because then I feel like the characters tend to be stronger, maybe even healthier personalities. And it's just what I tend to be drawn to.

Kaytee Cobb 30:17 Mm hmm. Yeah, internal conflicts, maybe that could be solved by a good therapist. Right? It doesn't have to be about romance at all. And so all of these are really important designations for if you listener are thinking about tiptoeing into romance, or you're not sure where to start. It might be good to think through like, well, am I okay with open door? Or do I want internal or external conflict? Are there tropes that I really love, or that I really want to avoid? Because all of that can change your experience. And what's really terrible is that you can totally go into a romance. Everybody says, this one's great. And it doesn't hit those buttons for you. Because you're not meeting what you want in a romance. Right? Right. That's really important to know ahead of time, because you could totally turn yourself off to romance for the rest of your life, and be missing out on some really great stories.

Rebekah Hoffer 31:06 So somebody recommended to me a Regency Era romance. And I traditionally read 100%, just contemporary modern day romance. And so I hadn't delved into that at all. But I recognize that there is a large portion of the romance reading community that loves Regency romance. So I tried to book that was highly recommended. And it was good, like, the book was good, but I myself got so frustrated with the gender expectations and inequality of that time period, that it was distracting to me. And I found myself not as like fully engaged in the book, because I like to be able to, in a healthy way, like, picture myself in the book or, or fine, like I didn't find that experience to be relatable. And instead, I found the differences in the societies at that time to be a distraction. So for some people, that's like an added benefit, you're going to like a whole other world, whole other time period, whole other country, a whole other culture and way of handling things. And for me, I was like, Oh, why are the men having sex with everybody and the women can't even be alone in the room with a man for five minutes. Like, I just couldn't. I just, oh, it just irked me too much. I didn't like it.

11 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kaytee Cobb 32:20 And that's important to know, it does. I mean, for me, I don't read a ton of historical romance. But when I do, it does feel like that external conflict, right to say, well, there is desire here, but society is the one that's putting the pressure and saying No, this can't happen. This isn't allowed. Right? Right. Even that part of it is important to understand to to know about yourself and see, okay, well, how am I gonna feel about that idea? Or how is that gonna play out for me personally? Okay, so let's take another step back and talk about why read romance at all.

Rebekah Hoffer 32:53 Oh, my goodness, I have so many reasons.

Kaytee Cobb 32:55 Perfect. That's exactly what I was hoping you would say.

Rebekah Hoffer 32:58 Okay, so reason, the first reason is, I think that a traditional romance always has a happily ever after. Now there are maybe love stories that do not have a happily ever after, but if it's labeled a romance traditionally is supposed to have a happily ever after. And I think that that has the potential to just provide a lovely escape. It can be a stress free reading experience, you can find yourself crying at some point, or there's conflict within the story. But there's also this just level of relaxation, that you can go into it knowing in the end, it's all going to be okay. And there's a time and place for tragedy and for hard. But sometimes, sometimes you just don't have it in you. Sometimes the tragedy in the heart is happening in your real life, and you just need a pleasant escape. And so that's a big reason why I have come to really love romance. Also, I would say that it improves my relationship with my husband. You know, as they say, men are microwaves, women are crockpots. And if my current read helps to preheat the crock pot a little bit, all the better for everyone. Right? Right. And lastly, a huge reason why I really do love reading romance is that I'm able to relive my own love story. Like what you were saying about about the book? Yes, you saw yourself. You could like it, maybe you can't exactly put your play put yourself into the story. But there's elements that you can pull where you're like, Oh, yes, that reminds me of my love story's origin story, our beginning. And there was a there was a book recently I read that described a touch on the back of her calf as one of the most erotic moments of her life. And Kaytee, that literally is my own story. My husband, the first time that he touched me, it was on the back of my calf. And it was like I almost died from the sexual tension of that single touch. Yeah, it was so powerful. Nate even put touching my leg at the bowling alley into his wedding vows.

Kaytee Cobb 35:17 Awee,

Rebekah Hoffer 35:19 like, there's beauty and being able to recognize and remember why and how we fell in love with our significant other. And to celebrate that, like it brings us closer. It can be, it can just be a beautiful thing.

12 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Kaytee Cobb 35:33 I completely agree. Do you or, listener, maybe you're you're wondering about this for your own self? Do you have any weird feelings about romance? Do you have any external expectations that play into your enjoyment of it anything where you feel like maybe I shouldn't be reading this? Maybe this isn't allowed? Because I feel like that that is a thing for a lot of women, especially married women to think, well, what if I'm, what if I'm putting myself too much into this story? What if I'm replacing my husband or the feelings for him? Right? Is that something that you've ever struggled with, or something that you have successfully vanquished or anything to that effect?

Rebekah Hoffer 36:15 Well, I would say that where you are in your current relationship, status, be it married or single, and your contentment level with that status would have to play a big part, and how appropriate reading romance is for you. If you're setting yourself you're like in the dating pool, and you're setting yourself up to have insanely high expectations of the people that you're dating your next partner to potentially come down the line. That's not going to be doing yourself any favors. If you feel dissatisfied within your own marriage. And you're constantly comparing your husband to the main lead in the book and you're like, man, if only Why Why doesn't my husband talk to me like that? Why doesn't my husband can't even pick up his dirty laundry? Why is this man so perfect? And my husband is not? I mean, that's like, you got to check yourself, right? I think you need to be in a healthy place, with yourself and a healthy place with your spouse, your partner or your relationship status as a whole. And only then I think, can you really embrace romance in more of a guilt free, carefree way where it can bring you closer together, rather than creating ill expectations? Right?

Kaytee Cobb 37:35 I totally agree. I think that's a great way to consider things for yourself before you dive in to something that may or may not end up being the best thing that ever happened to you, or really damaging in a number of ways, right? Because really, it could go either way, depending on where you're at with your own love story. And expectations.

Rebekah Hoffer 37:57 Exactly. Yes. fully agree. So one other thing that I would say is that there's a lot of different kinds of romance like we have we talked about this a little bit, right? So there's different, like, there's Regency era, there's mystery romance, thriller, contemporary. And then there's also a lot of different, like quality levels day I say. Yes, so I think that part one reason I kind of hesitate to recommend romance to anybody. Because I think when people think about romance, they might have some misconceptions. So they might be thinking about like bodice rippers, with Fabio on the cover, and it's all trash and no depth or character development. So they have like a real negative shallow perception of romance. Or they might be thinking about Nicholas Sparks, right where it's very beautiful stories, but somebody always dies. Or you might be thinking about really sweet but tame rom com style stories kind of like the I've Got Your Number by Sophie Kinsella that I mentioned on current reads, and then there's the ones where it's like, okay, it's opening up with a one night stand open door, and your boom, you're right in it. And so I think that when you're getting a romance recommendation from somebody, or you're considering recommending romance to somebody, it's really smart to kind of set the stage test each other out, figure out, Okay, what exactly am I getting into, because you can have some really powerful character

13 Transcribed by https://otter.ai development. Really great things to think about, like even in the book, Not What I Expected. That book was really so much more about grieving imperfect people and how you move on with your life. When when your life is so drastically changed than it was even about the romance and there's something that you can learn and glean from that. That's not just two people falling in love having sex, right? So give romance a try. But maybe like figure out, what exactly are you looking for? And when somebody recommends something to you, instead of just going in with maybe a misconception about what it possibly could be like, dig a little deeper and ask some questions about, okay, now what exactly is this? Open door closed door? Words like that will help, I think.

Kaytee Cobb 40:19 Yes. And I agree, I think there's a tendency to say, Okay, well, I tried one. And it's not for me. But any number of these factors that we've talked about could have affected that experience for you. It could be the writing, it could be the characters, it could be the open door, closed door level, it could be the time setting, it could be any number of factors. So I think both of us would say, Please don't write off romance as an entire genre. If it feels like that one didn't work for you, for some reason. You know, give it another try. Maybe hone in a little more, and see what is going to work for you have a conversation with a good bookish friend who knows your taste in other areas of your life or has a good idea for what does work for you in a different genre, and then she'll be able to push you the right direction.

Rebekah Hoffer 41:04 Right, exactly. Don't write off romance. I love that. Yes, that is the moral of the story with this episode.

Kaytee Cobb 41:11 All right. That's a good moral. I like that. Okay, so now we're going to press some books into your hands, like the good bookish friends that we are. We have things that we want you to read. Rebekah, what would you like to press into our listeners hands today?

Rebekah Hoffer 41:24 Okay, I am shifting gears. And I feel a little awkward that I've talked about I've said, erotic, I've said sex. I've said one night stand and now we're talking about a children's picture book. Perfect. Here we go.

Kaytee Cobb 41:37 We contain multitudes. It's okay,

Rebekah Hoffer 41:39 Exactly. So I am recommending I am pressing the book, Vegetables in Underwear by Jared Chapman. This is a children's picture book. It's a silly celebration of underwear and that we all wear it. It is a great book for kids who are potty training, although it doesn't talk about going to the bathroom at all. Each page features bright, fun, simple illustrations of vegetables in their underwear. And mostly it's an it's an opposites book. So we're talking about new underwear and old underwear, big underwear and little underwear, underwear for boys and underwear for girls. And I will say that one thing I really appreciate about this book is on the page where it talks about underwear for boys and girls. They don't play into the gender stereotypes. So the boy vegetable is wearing purple underwear and the girl vegetable is wearing green underwear. And I love that they didn't go with the traditional pink and blue. In second

14 Transcribed by https://otter.ai grade, my son had to read a picture book to the class. And he took in the book Vegetables in Underwear and it was a huge hit with lots of laughs And if you would like to see me flip through the book, I have a video saved on my Instagram profile at @simplyrebekah. Occasionally I share picture book recommendations in my Instagram stories and I have a highlight saved on my profile with all the books including Vegetables in Underwear by Jared

Kaytee Cobb 42:39 That is so fun. I love that hard left turn. We are all about that here at Currently Reading. And as I mentioned before we started recording today I have a soon to be potty training kiddo at my house. So that makes me think I need to go get it like right now.

Rebekah Hoffer 43:24 This is perfect for the little little kids. It's just it's a delight. It's so cute.

Kaytee Cobb 43:30 It sounds delightful. I love the way your face lit up while you were talking about it. Okay, I'm going to turn us back with a hard right turn. And I went back and look through our press list. And I have only pressed ever one true romance in the podcast. So today I'm going to press the second one. Awesome. I'm going to change that and I'm going to press Bringing Down the Duke by Evie Dunmore. This was the first romance that I read that I rated five stars. There have been plenty since then. But this was the first one that I was like. I am 100% in on this. I love this so much. I want everything that this author ever writes. This one knocked it out of the park. It's placed in England in 1879. Historical romance right. Annabelle Archer is brilliant and has earned a place at Oxford as one of their very first female students. As part of the scholarship conditions, she must support the women's suffrage movement. So she is fighting for women's rights as part of her time at Oxford. Okay, she's supposed to approach the the men of the House of Commons because as we know, when women did not have the right to vote, men were the ones who had to give that to them, right? It was so screwed up. So she goes to approach the men of the House of Commons and other men of influence in order to convince them to support the suffrage cause. And by luck of the draw, she needs to ingratiate herself with the Duke of Montgomery whose name is Sebastian.

Rebekah Hoffer 44:54 Lovely.

Kaytee Cobb 44:55 That's all the setup you need for a steamy historical romance. Because at as we readers know, sparks will absolutely fly here and they cannot be flying for any number of reasons. Annabel's father is a vicar, the Duke needs to maintain his power his legacy. He needs to find a bride. It's a mess. She's from a poor family, etc. External expectations, historical romance, very feminist, very concerned with women's rights, women having any kind of power, etc. But it has lots of other fun historical romance things like bindings and corsets and big fluffy skirts, which if you like historical romance is definitely a selling point. So it's definitely open door, but the balance of plot and sexy time is perfection. I loved it so much. It's Bringing Down the Duke by Evie Dunmore. sounds so good. It's so good. Okay, that is it for this week. As a reminder, here's where you can connect with us. You can find me Kaytee at @notesonbookmarks

15 Transcribed by https://otter.ai on Instagram, Meredith is at @meredith.reads. Rebekah, where would you like our listeners to connect with you?

Rebekah Hoffer 46:02 You can find me as a regular co-host on the Sorta Awesome podcast, at my website, simplyrebekah.com, or all over social media at @simplyrebekah. Instagram is my favorite place to be and all the magic happens in my Instagram stories. So I look forward to seeing you there.

Kaytee Cobb 46:17 Perfect, full show notes with the title of every book we mentioned in the episode and timestamps, so you can zoom right to where we talked about it can be found at currentlyreadingpodcast.com or you can find us at @currentlyreadingpodcast on Instagram or email us at [email protected]. If you super want to help us, please rate and review us on Apple podcasts or shout us out on social media or become a patron. It makes a huge difference in our being able to find a perfect audience. Until next week. Happy reading Rebekah.

Rebekah Hoffer 46:46 Happy reading Kaytee.

16 Transcribed by https://otter.ai