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FACE THE NATION

Sunday, July 4, 2004

GUESTS: MARC RACICOT Chairman, Bush-Cheney '04 Campaign

TERRY McAULIFFE Chairman, Democratic National Committee

MODERATOR: BOB SCHIEFFER - CBS News

This is a rush transcript provided for the information and convenience of the press. Accuracy is not guaranteed. In case of doubt, please check with

FACE THE NATION - CBS NEWS 202-457-4481

BURRELLE'S INFORMATION SERVICES / 202-419-1859 / 800-456-2877 Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, July 4, 2004 1

BOB SCHIEFFER, host:

Today on FACE THE NATION, campaign on wheels. The candidates hit the road. As the campaign shifts into high gear, the candidates are touring the heartland by bus. Vice President Cheney has rolled up his sleeves to mingle with the voters. John Kerry is out there, too. Polls show Senator Kerry and President Bush in a virtual tie. Will Ralph Nader tip the balance? Who will be Kerry's running mate and what about the economy and Iraq? We'll get both sides from our correspondents on the road and from the party's top strategists here in Washington, Bush campaign chairman Marc Racicot and Democratic Party chief Terry McAuliffe.

Today's Flashback remembers the O.J. Simpson trial, and I'll have a final word on the Fourth of July. But first, Campaign 2004 on FACE THE NATION.

Announcer: FACE THE NATION with CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. And now from CBS News in Washington, Bob Schieffer.

SCHIEFFER: And good morning again. Well, they are off and running or should we say off and riding? Vice President Cheney and Senator Kerry touring the heartland on buses. The vice president is on a three- state tour. He's in Pittsburgh today. Kerry is in Iowa. We'll hear from his campaign later, but we'll start with the Republicans. Joie Chen is with the vice president. Joie, this is an unusual setting for the vice president, isn't it?

JOIE CHEN reporting:

Well, Bob, you know, the--the wags have been calling this the disclosed locations tour. That's a reference to the amount of time the vice president has spent during the course of his term at those undisclosed secure locations. And location is really what it's all about in the course of this bus tour. In fact, the vice president hasn't been in many--many Republican strongholds, but he's only met with the most hand-picked loyal Republican supporters. The most impromptu stop they made was at a local Republican headquarters in Columbiana, Ohio. That was set up by the party as well locally there.

But, you know, on the other hand, there were protesters right outside of Cleveland in Parma, Ohio. There were protesters there. They were kept at a safe distance away. And the media which is supposedly out to cover the bus tour, so far has not been allowed to see the vice president on his bus. The only way we're even able to get a picture of the vice president near his bus is to send our camera crew on a little cat-and-mouse with the Ohio state troopers to get in front of the vice president to get a picture on him.

The bottom line on this and the message we're getting from the campaign is they want to put him in front of very loyal supporters, the party faithful, as it were, but in no situations where he might come into any conflict. That's the message about the locations out here, Bob.

SCHIEFFER: OK. Thank you very much, Joie. Joie Chen, who is with the vice president in Pittsburgh this morning.

We're now joined here in Washington by the chairman of the Bush campaign, former Montana Governor Marc Racicot.

Governor, thank s--you for coming. Let me ask you this first question: Why a Bush--why a--why a bus tour if the vice president is only speaking to the party faithful?

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Mr. MARC RACICOT (Chairman, Bush-Cheney '04 Campaign): Well, it allows for him the o--the opportunity to visit the people in a variety of different places. You get to engage more personally. You get to listen more carefully. It allows for the opportunity for those that he serves to have the chance to meet him and- -and to become a part of the political process in a more intimate way.

SCHIEFFER: Well, you know, he was booed yesterday in Ohio. He has been identified as the architect of the Iraq policy. We've had the questions about Halliburton. It does kind of raise the question, is this a road test for the vice president?

Mr. RACICOT: No, no. This is--this is an effort to get fully engaged in the campaign as we approach closer to the fall and to our convention. It's just an opportunity for the vice president, and there'll be a number of other opportunities throughout the course of the campaign.

SCHIEFFER: There's a new poll out today, a new CBS News/New York Times poll that says about half the people now believe that George Bush has caused the country to become more polarized. Now I remember George Bush running in 2000 when he ran as a candidate who would bring people together, who could unify the country. What's happened here?

Mr. RACICOT: Well, I don't believe that anything other than the pursuit of his agenda of a optimistic future for America is precisely what he set about to do and has done. He's worked in a bipartisan way with Congress to achieve historic tax reform, to achieve education reform, Medicare reform. Trade policies are the result of bipartisan efforts.

SCHIEFFER: Well, but why do you think it's become a more polarized country?

Mr. RACICOT: Well, the--the issue matrix out there is difficult. There's no question about it. We're facing extraordinary moments in the history of humankind, not just the history of this nation. Clearly, people have concerns about security. They have strong views. They're able to be informed more easily by 24-hour news cycles. I think there are a lot of reasons why the American people now retain their independent judgment for a long period of time until they make a final decision about who they want to lead them.

SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you about another finding of this poll that I found very interesting this morning. It shows overwhelmingly 82 percent of the people now believe that it matters who is elected president. Now that may seem obvious to you and it might seem obvious to most people out there watching the broadcast this morning, but those of us who follow politics closely find that very unusual. And our pollsters say this is the highest number of people who believe that it matters in 30 years of polling. If you go back just as recently as 1992, only 60 percent thought it mattered who the president was. Some might take that to mean that the country's looking for a change. How do you interpret that?

Mr. RACICOT: I look at it as something that's good for a functioning democracy, to have so many people engaged in the political life of their nation. And we would welcome that news and encourage it at every opportunity.

SCHIEFFER: You know, Democrats have been po--poking fun at your agenda since you announced the list of prime-time speakers that you're going to have at the Republican National Convention. They point out that you're feaching--featuring Republicans who oppose the administration in a big way on many issues; for example, John McCain. He was one of the main opponents of the president's tax cuts. He's been a strong critic of the war policy. Then you're going to have Rudy Giuliani, who opposes the Bush policy on gun control and abortion rights; Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is an out--outspoken advocate of gay rights. Even Mayor Bloomberg, who is going to open the convention for you, supports gay rights and is for stem-cell research. Why this particular group of Republicans?

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Mr. RACICOT: Well, we have a very large family, obviously refl--reflected with a wi--wide variety of opinion. And these are people who are strong supporters of the president. They have been there from day one. Virtually every single one that you talked about has been there campaigning with the president, and obviously understanding his policies, been there at his side from the very beginning.

SCHIEFFER: Well, are you going to have anybody there, for example, that's going to be strongly for tax cuts, which has been the core of the president's agenda?

Mr. RACICOT: Oh, unquestionably. Unquestionably. There will--there will be a variety. Thi--this is just a partial listing of the program that we've put together.

SCHIEFFER: But these are the prime-time people.

Mr. RACICOT: These are people that will be featured throughout the course of those hours that--and we hope to share them with the American people. But the--there are a variety of different opinions all throughout the Republican Party. We've had--we've had a history of a--tolerance of diverse approach. But all of these people support the president and his agenda.

SCHIEFFER: But how d--how will people in your base, who are very much against, for example, gay r--gay rights, against--they'll be for the amendment to ban gay marriage--how will they feel about that?

Mr. RACICOT: Well...

SCHIEFFER: Or do you run the risk of alienating them in order to put on people who are moderates, who might appeal to a more middle-of-the-road electorate?

Mr. RACICOT: Well, they know that we're focused on the election of a president, and they know the president's policy in reference to each one of those issues. And we have one of the highest, if not the highest, number percentagewise--subscription of Republican voters who support the president for that particular--for his presidency and for what he does, rather than just subscribing because they happen to be Re--Republicans. You know, 73 percent of those polled in a recent poll reveal that they're supporting por--George Bush because they're for him. In reference to John Kerry, you'll find that only about 37 percent of those who are going to vote for him support that same notion.

SCHIEFFER: What are the issues going to be, Governor?

Mr. RACICOT: Well, I think always issues of security, because they're so personal to people. And that has to do with international and national security issues, and the economy because it, again, is very, very personal. I think Medicare and education will be issues, as well, health care generally--issues that will be focused upon during the campaign, because each one of those issues touches so intimately each American.

SCHIEFFER: In the beginning, it appeared that the president was going to build this campaign on--on the fact that he is a war president, and on Iraq. Now we have more than half the people saying, according to the latest polls, that it was a mistake to go into Iraq. How does he get around that?

Mr. RACICOT: Well, I believe that the American people, and particularly as we focus upon the differences between these two candidates between now and Election Day, more and more come to the conclusion that, in fact, what we're dealing with here is an extraordinary moment in the history of humankind. We're talking about our security. This is not just about the security of the Middle East. It's about our family's security. It's about dealing with something now rather than putting it off till another day, when our children and grandchildren

BURRELLE'S INFORMATION SERVICES / (202)419-1859 / (800)456-2877 Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, July 4, 2004 4 have to deal with it. We know it's hard. We grieve for our losses. But the American people know that this is the right moment for us to deal with the issue of terrorism.

SCHIEFFER: There will soon be two reports coming out from--one from the 9-11 Commission, am--another from the Senate Intelligence Committee, on 9/11 and the run-up to the war. Both, apparently, are going to be extremely critical, from what we hear. Of the things that happened beforehand, suggesting that we were unprepared, one commission apparently is going to say that some of these things could have been avoided. Is that going to be a fair campaign issue, to say that this president did not do the right things, or this administration did not do the right things, in the lead-up to the days before 9/11 to prevent that?

Mr. RACICOT: Well, you know, the president, Bob, from the very beginning supported the--an inquiry that would allow us the opportunity to improve our ability to defend this nation and our families here in this country. And clearly he's participated willingly and with every degree of advocacy that he could bring to bear upon all of those issues discussed. I think, frankly, what it's going to focus upon is the policy of the United States government that goes back quite a period of time. And if you take a look at what happened through the course of the '90s, I suspect that there are going to be many suggestions for improvement in our defense and in intelligence capabilities. This president, however, obviously, his record reveals, has dealt with those issues not only with vision about how--where we ought to be a day from now, two days from now, 200 years from now, but he's also dealt with the issues of homeland security I think in a very forceful way and I believe the American people understand that.

SCHIEFFER: Well, last question and quickly, is the president going to participate in debates with Senator Kerry?

Mr. RACICOT: Oh, I think the--the president very much looks forward to the opportunity to draw differences between the two candidates, the steady leadership that he's provide compared with that that's offered by Senator John Kerry.

SCHIEFFER: All right. Thank you very much, Governor.

Mr. RACICOT: Thank you, Bob.

SCHIEFFER: Appreciate having you here.

Now let's look in on the Kerry campaign. The senator is in Iowa today where the big question is: Who's he going to pick for his running mate? The latest on that now from our man Byron Pitts, who is with Kerry.

Well, Byron, who's it going to be?

BYRON PITTS reporting:

Well, Bob, I have to say the easy money at this point is on Senator John Edwards from North Carolina. We've been told by sources close to the campaign that Senator Kerry has narrowed his short list to a short, short list, two names, possibly a third person, the surprise candidate. The names we hear most often are, of course, John Edwards, the senator from North Carolina, Bob Graham, the senator from Florida, and Tom Vilsack, the governor from Iowa, and Dick Gephardt from Missouri. What we're hearing is most likely the front-runner at this point appears to be John Edwards. There are a number of people inside the campaign who th--have strong feelings that Edwards can help Kerry win because he can bring energy to the ticket, but there are others inside the campaign who are pushing for Gephardt and the other candidates. The realization is that all those men have strengths but they also have liabilities.

BURRELLE'S INFORMATION SERVICES / (202)419-1859 / (800)456-2877 Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, July 4, 2004 5

SCHIEFFER: Is there any sense of when this announcement is going to be made?

PITTS: Well, Bob, we're hearing it could come as early as Tuesday, possibly pushed back to Wednesday, that the campaign is ready. There's already a shadow staff ready for the VP, whoever that will be. They have office space all ready in the campaign headquarters in Washington. They're still shopping around now for a plane. They even have a printing company on standby to once Kerry makes his decision to start printing those bumper stickers and those posters. So we hear Tuesday, possibly Wednesday.

SCHIEFFER: OK, Byron, thank you very much.

PITTS: All right.

SCHIEFFER: And that's our Byron Pitts out in Iowa this morning.

With the Kerry campaign here in Washington, the chairman of the Democratic Party, Terry McAuliffe.

Mr. McAuliffe, let's talk about that. Let's stipulate in the beginning that all the people that the--that John Kerry is talking about to go on the ticket are all good citizens. They're all capable of being president and all of that. So let's go beyond that. What does he need in a vice president? Does he need a strong regional candidate who can carry a state? Does he need a good speaker? What's he looking for here?

Mr. TERRY McAULIFFE (Chairman, Democratic National Committee): Well, the great news for us right now is we're ahead in the polls. You just saw The Washington Post-ABC poll that had Senator Kerry up 8 points. We don't need a vice president to help us raise money 'cause with record amounts of donations from small donors are coming in. So the important aspect that John Kerry's got to look at is who could step into the shoes if anything were to happen to him and whom does he feel most compatible with? I mean, we're ahead in the polls today. So we don't need the traditional look that we do with different vice presidential candidates. It's an exciting time for us. He's going to do it on his timetable, whom he feels the most comfortable with, but he's going to make a decision who could take over and become president if anything were ever to happen to him, which is the right way to do it.

SCHIEFFER: Byron Pitts just said he thinks it might come this week. Do you think that's about right?

Mr. McAULIFFE: It certainly is possible it could come this week, but once again, until John Kerry says and the calls have gone out, anything could happen.

SCHIEFFER: You know, this has been an awful month or so for the president, but Senator Kerry does not seem to be moving. From our polling, it appears that he's running about neck and neck with him. Let's take a look here. This is the poll that's out this morning. It to--I think it has about a 45 percent, 44 percent. That certainly would be in the margin of error as far as the horse race, and then you put Ralph Nader into the mix and obviously President Bush goes up a little when you get to that. Why isn't Kerry doing better?

Mr. McAULIFFE: Well, I've got to say here we are running against an incumbent president while we're at war, and as you know President Bush's campaign has just spent $83 million attacking John Kerry, and right now we're ahead in the polls.

Yeah, I remind you in 1992 President Clinton was in third place at this point in the '92 campaign. John Kerry and most of the polls now has him up. We are about to pick our vice presidential nominee. We're about to go into a convention of four days. And I think once we finish up our convention, I think you're going to see Senator Kerry anywhere from eight go 12 points up. We are in great shape today. We've got a long way to go. We have 120 days till Election Day. Anything can happen. But I think Americans have made up their mind

BURRELLE'S INFORMATION SERVICES / (202)419-1859 / (800)456-2877 Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, July 4, 2004 6 that George Bush has failed them on the economy, on Iraq and they're looking for a change. And once we lay out all the background on John Kerry--distinguished service, two tours of duty in Vietnam, risked his life to save the lives of others, his great economic plans--we're going to have a big win.

SCHIEFFER: Well, you say you're in good shape but it is very, very close, and when it is this close, Mr. McAuliffe, can you afford to have Ralph Nader in this race?

Mr. McAULIFFE: No, I would much prefer Ralph Nader to not be in the race. You know, I was very upset this week to see that Dick Armey, the former Republican House majority leader is spending money--his organization is spending money, to get people to sign Ralph Nader's petitions. He did it up in Oregon. They are calling people to say, `If you want to help George Bush, go out and help Ralph Nader.'

I am publicly today calling on Ralph Nader to disavow any help from any Republican group. They are helping him, and the reason they're helping him is because they know that they are taking votes away from John Kerry and helping George Bush. Ralph Nader doesn't want his eight years--his legacy to be eight years of George Bush in this country. He doesn't. The issues that he cares about--corporate governance and the environment-- those are issues that John Kerry has fought on his entire life. George Bush has been a disaster on these issues, and he needs to help us, not hurt us.

SCHIEFFER: Well, is there anything else you can do besides just saying, `Please, Mr. Nader, don't--don't let these Republicans help you'?

Mr. McAULIFFE: Not really. I mean, we can go out there, and our job--we're not going to spend our time focusing our time on Ralph Nader. We're going to talk about John Kerry, and I believe the people who would go out and support for Ralph Nader will come and vote for John Kerry because they know what he has done in his 19 years in the United States Senate, vot--fighting on those issues that they care about. So we've got to have our positive campaign, lay it out there, and I just hope at the end of the day that Ralph Nader, whom I speak to frequently, and I will tell you, Bob, on every phone call he says, `Terry, George Bush is the worst president in modern history. I want to beat him more than you do.' Well, Ralph, I'll take you at your words. You need to help us...

SCHIEFFER: Is...

Mr. McAULIFFE: ...and disavow these Republicans.

SCHIEFFER: Is there any kind of deal you can make with him? Is there any kind of promise you can make to him that in exchange for that he would agree not to run?

Mr. McAULIFFE: You know, this isn't about Ralph Nader. It's not about John Kerry. It's about our country. We have seen the course of this country the way George Bush has taken it, extreme right-wing conservative views. They want to get rid of the Clean Water Act, they want to get rid of the Clean Air Act.

SCHIEFFER: But what can you say to him that might convince him he ought not to do this, other than George Bush is bad for the country?

Mr. McAULIFFE: Thi--this is about the future of our country. This election I believe is the most important presidential election we have faced in many, many years. All the issues that Ralph Nader has spent his entire life working on are on the table this year. We can't afford four more years of George Bush, whether it be the Supreme Court appointments, all the legislation. You've seen what they've done with our energy policy. He needs to get out of the race. But you know what? We've got to get our message out there, and when we get our message out there, these folks are going to come and vote for John Kerry because he's right for America.

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SCHIEFFER: Is there any--would you put him as part of the administration if he would agree to get out?

Mr. McAULIFFE: Well, I'll leave that up to Senator Kerry. He's going to make the decision who's in the administration. Listen, in fairness to Ralph Nader, he has fought for so many years on so many important issues that are so important to everybody, and he could have an important role in whatever we do going forward because he truly cares about the issues. That's why I'm baffled why he's letting Republicans come in and help him get on these ballots. Republicans, there's no issues why they're doing it. He's got to understand it, and I will wait for his phone call today.

SCHIEFFER: OK.

Mr. McAULIFFE: He needs to publicly disavow the Republicans.

SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you quickly about Howard Dean. Some of his people are saying that he--if he is not considered and not put on the ticket as a running mate, they may try to raise a ruckus at the convention. What about that?

Mr. McAULIFFE: Well, I saw that in the paper today. I think the group's raised a total of $1,200. I would say this. Howard Dean has been spectacular. Ever since he's gotten out of the race, he has--we've called and asked him to do events for the party, for John Kerry. He has agreed to do everything. He is working day and night. He just did a huge event for us last Friday. Listen, Howard Dean is 100 percent behind beating John Kerry, and he will get the message out to all the folks who support Governor Dean that you need to support John Kerry because it's about the future of this country.

SCHIEFFER: I mentioned to Governor Racicot that the Democrats are sort of poking fun at their prime-time speakers. Let me ask you about yours. Are you going to put Al Gore on in prime time?

Mr. McAULIFFE: Al Gore will have a major--we haven't, first of all, confirmed our schedule but Al Gore will have a major speaking role. Al Gore was part of the team that led to the greatest economic recovery in the history of our country, Bob, 22 million new jobs, highest level of home ownership. You know, there were more millionaires and billionaires created in the Clinton-Gore administration, but you know what? At the same time, more people moved out of poverty. Everybody benefited, and Al Gore, Bill Clinton will remind you of those great eight years that we had where everybody benefited, not the top 1 percent who've gotten all the tax breaks from George Bush. People today are worried about their economic look--outlook. They've seen their wages become stagnant, health-care costs, education, gasoline. Everything's up.

SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you one other question.

Mr. McAULIFFE: Right.

SCHIEFFER: Was the chance--were the chances for the Democratic nominee helped by Bill Clinton's book coming out as it did and--and Bill Clinton no--dominating the air waves and getting all the publicity he did. Is that something that Democrats should be proud of or is it best forgotten?

Mr. McAULIFFE: Well, I--I think there's been over a million people. They're in their third printing o--of the book. A million people have purchased the book already. I think there's tremendous excitement. And what that book reminds Americans of, as I mentioned before, increased funding for education, for health care, for Pell grants, Perkins loans. You know, all the issues that people care about at home, those kitchen table issues, under the Clinton-Gore administration, everybody benefited.

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SCHIEFFER: OK. We'll leave--we'll leave it right there.

Mr. McAULIFFE: Thank you, Bob.

SCHIEFFER: I'll be back in just a minute with another FACE THE NATION 50th anniversary Flashback.

(Announcements)

SCHIEFFER: In July of 1995, the criminal trial of former Heisman Trophy winner and NFL star O.J. Simpson created an unprecedented media frenzy. That is this week's 50th anniversary Flashback.

In what some called the trial of the century, Simpson's lawyer, Johnnie Cochran, often took center stage. On FACE THE NATION, we asked about his strategy regarding his client's possible testimony.

(Excerpt from previous program)

SCHIEFFER: What would be the risk of O.J. Simpson taking the stand?

Mr. JOHNNIE COCHRAN (Lead Simpson Attorney): I think that if the prosecution is holding something back that we aren't aware of, if there's some report hidden or something that--where he may be asked a question that he can't be prepared for, but, you know, I think that really, the risks are somewhat minimal from his standpoint. I think O.J. Simpson is an innocent man. I think the evidence will show that.

(End of excerpt)

SCHIEFFER: O.J. Simpson never took the stand in the criminal trial, and after Cochran's memorable plea to the jury...

Mr. COCHRAN: (From trial) If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

SCHIEFFER: ...the ex-football star was acquitted on October 3rd, 1995; another FACE THE NATION 50th anniversary Flashback.

And I'll be back with a final word.

(Announcements)

SCHIEFFER: Finally, on this day we remember that tiny group who pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to do what no one else of their day thought possible: defeat the greatest military power in the world and form their own nation.

Reading Ron Chernow's excellent new biography of Alexander Hamilton has reminded me of one part of their story that is often forgotten: just how much some of them disliked each other and how suspicious all of them were of human nature. Because of that they were determined that no one of them and no part of their new government would ever corner all the power. They had united to throw out the British, but they almost went to war among themselves over how to divide that power. The way Madison saw it, you wouldn't need a government if men were angels, and if the governors were angels, you wouldn't need controls or restraints on them. But they were dealing with men, not angels, and so they devised the ingenious system of checks and balances.

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As I was thinking about their remarkable insight into human behavior, I wondered who among us they would have admired. Here's my guess: Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, for one. When the court ruled last week that even prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have a right to their day in court, she wrote, `A state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the nation's citizens.' The founders would have recognized that she was speaking their language--a good thing for us to recognize, as well, on this fine day.

That's it for us. We'll see you next week right here on FACE THE NATION.

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