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Top of Page Interview Information--Different Title Regional Oral History Office University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California G. Edward White THE LAW CLERKS OF CHIEF JUSTICE EARL WARREN: G. EDWARD WHITE Interviews conducted by Laura McCreery in 2005 Copyright © 2014 by The Regents of the University of California Since 1954 the Regional Oral History Office has been interviewing leading participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the nation. Oral History is a method of collecting historical information through tape-recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. The tape recording is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The corrected manuscript is bound with photographs and illustrative materials and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ********************************* All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between The Regents of the University of California and G. Edward White dated June 2, 2005. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. Excerpts up to 1000 words from this interview may be quoted for publication without seeking permission as long as the use is non-commercial and properly cited. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to The Bancroft Library, Head of Public Services, Mail Code 6000, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-6000, and should follow instructions available online at http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/ROHO/collections/cite.html It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: G. Edward White “THE LAW CLERKS OF CHIEF JUSTICE EARL WARREN: G. EDWARD WHITE” conducted by Laura McCreery in 2005, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 2014. iii Table of Contents—G. Edward White Interview 1: June 2, 2005 Audio File 1 1 Birth, upbringing, education in New England and New York — Amherst College — PhD in American Studies, Yale University — Harvard University Law School — Perceptions of Chief Justice Earl Warren and the Supreme Court — Working at the American Bar Foundation — Deciding to apply for a Supreme Court clerkship — Dallin Oaks, William Dempsey, Murray Bring — Narrator’s background and its relevance to Warren’s writing — Warren’s memoirs — Warren’s travels and speeches — Warren’s travels and speeches — Speechwriting — The Roscoe Pound Lecture — How Warren’s memoirs were written — Narrator’s scholarly writing about Warren — Bernard Schwartz’s Warren biography — Warren’s complicated personality and his morality Audio File 2 16 President Richard Nixon and changes on the Supreme Court — In retirement, Warren’s hands-off approach to Chief Justice Warren Burger and the Supreme Court — More about Nixon — The Abe Fortas affair — Warren’s views about conflicts of interest — Confidentiality — Mixed feelings about the Supreme Court clerkship — Mrs. Margaret McHugh — Narrator’s writing about Oliver Wendell Holmes — Other justices — Impressions of Chief Justice Burger — Warren’s political skills — Justice Thurgood Marshall — Warren Court holdovers — The National Court of Appeals — Narrator’s career: teaching, writing legal history, analyzing courts — Writing Warren’s biography — Race — The Warren Court as a force for social change Audio File 3 32 The career paths of Warren’s former clerks — Books about Warren — Warren’s memoirs — Best books by or about Supreme Court justices — Changing trends in biographical writing — Alger Hiss — John F. Davis, former Clerk of the Supreme Court [End of Interview] 1 Interview 1: June 2, 2005 [Audio File 1] McCreery: This is tape 1 on June 2, 2005. This is Laura McCreery speaking, and on this tape I’ll be interviewing G. Edward White at his home in Charlottesville, Virginia. We’re talking today for the purposes of the oral history project Law Clerks of Chief Justice Earl Warren. I wonder if you could start us off by stating your date of birth and just talk a little about where you were born. 1-00:00:59 White: I was born March 19, 1941 at Northampton, Massachusetts. My father at that time was in the English Department at Amherst College. He was very soon thereafter to leave, as the Second World War broke out, and ended up in the Merchant Marines. But at that time, when I was born, they were living in a little town called Hadley, right outside of Amherst. So I was born in the Northampton Hospital. McCreery: The war had quite an effect on your family, then. 1-00:01:36 White: Yes, my father never went back into teaching as a result. After the war he ended up in the publishing business, and we moved to New York. So I ended up growing up in the New York area. McCreery: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your early schooling and what sort of interests you had. 1-00:02:02 White: I went away to boarding school in my early teens, when I was about thirteen or so, and spent a very long time in various institutions in New England. I think I was primarily interested in athletics when I was growing up. I liked school; I seemed to do all right in school. But I was passionate about sports. In the culture in which I grew up there were a lot of opportunities to play sports, so I did. It was also a time when—I was in boarding school in the 1950s and entered college in 1959—it was not yet a particularly competitive market for going to college. If you went to a boarding school and did comparatively well you had a lot of college options. I ended up going to Amherst College because I could play more than one sport while I was there. I did not have any particular ambitions to go to law school. There were no lawyers in my family. My father had gone to graduate school, and so I anticipated as a matter of course that I would go. But again I was class of 1963, and it was a comparatively benign market for graduate students, and it was anticipated that there would be a lot of jobs in higher education because higher education was booming in the early sixties. So I went to graduate 2 school with, I guess, the expectation that I would be a history professor. I went to Yale and was in American Studies at Yale and got my PhD in 1967. At that time the market was very good, and all of us had good opportunities. For some specific reasons I had not particularly liked the atmosphere at graduate school; I had not liked the dependency of the graduate students on their professors for getting jobs and progressing up the academic hierarchy, and I thought it was restricting. My last couple of years in graduate school I had started living with law students at Yale and decided that maybe I would go to law school instead of going on the job market after I finished my PhD. The Selective Service System was in effect at the time, Vietnam was heating up, and most of us were at risk to be drafted. But if you stayed in school until you were twenty-six then you were put in another category, and you were less vulnerable to the draft. So it took me past my twenty-sixth birthday to finish my dissertation. I wrote my draft board and said, “I’m thinking of going to law school; what are you going to do?” They said, “Nothing. You’ll be 1-A, but we’re not currently taking anybody in your age group. So I went ahead and applied to law school. I think my professors in the graduate school at Yale thought I was crazy, that here was a person with good opportunities in the job market, who is completing his doctorate and all of a sudden wanting to go to law school and perhaps not even go into academics at all. And to some extent they were right. McCreery: What is your explanation of that? 1-00:06:15 White: Well, I just had a kind of ephemeral attraction to the way in which law students talked and thought and also the kind of experiences they had in law school as opposed to the ones I’d had in graduate school. I overestimated the academic dimensions of law school, and when I ended up going to law school I found out that, after the first year when you learn the game of analyzing legal issues, it becomes a little bit programmed. You sort of struggle to find some substantive dimensions as a law student. But I didn’t know that. I had an impression that law school was maybe more stimulating. And it was in some ways but not in others. So I found myself finally at the age of twenty-nine having two advanced degrees and having not yet held a full-time job. I had gotten married at that time and had a child on the way, so I needed to do something. McCreery: Before we leave the subject of law school let me ask you to talk a little about Harvard Law.
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