Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 20 SEPTEMBER 1973

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Matters of Public Interest [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 607

THURSDAY, 20 SEPTEMBER 1973

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. W. H. Lonergan, Flinders) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m.

AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS

TREASURER'S ANNUAL STATEMENT; LOANS SINKING FUNDS Mr. SPEAKER announced the receipt from the Auditor-General of his reports on (a} the Treasurer's Annual Statement for the year 1972-73 and (b) the Loans Sinking Funds for the year 1972-73. Ordered to be printed.

PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed:- Reports- Agricultural Bank, for the year 1972-73. Consumer Affairs Bureau, for the year 1972-73. The following papers were laid on the table:- Order in Council under the Industrial Development Act 1963-1973. Regulation under the Primary Producers~ Assistance Act 1972.

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE

PAYMENTS TO PROFESSIONAL MEMBERS OF ADVISORY COMMITTEES Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,- Further to his Answer to my Question on September 18, how much does his Government normally pay for professional advice received from persons holding positions on a similar basis to Dr. R. D. Lumb, Mr. Arnold Bennett, Q.C., and Mr. C. D. Sheahan, Q.C.?

Answer:- "There is no norm in respect of the fees pajd to counsel for opinions on matters of law affecting the constitutional position of the State. The fee for any such opinion would depend on the size of the brief and the complexity of the relevant matter."

CoNDITIONS OF LEASE, GRIFFIN AND ANDY's ISLANDS Mr. Marginson for Mr. D'Arcy, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Lands,- With reference to his Answer to my Question on September 13 that he had not granted Coastal Reclamations Pty. Ltd. the· 608 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

right to transfer or assign land at Andy's Answers:- and Griffin Islands held under special ( 1) "There are presently 45 final year lease from his Department, and as the physiotherapy students at Queensland company has claimed that smce the University, plus one student doing a six gazettal of the Town Plan in March it months supplementary." has been legally entitled to sell the land at auction for whatever price can be (2 and 3) "My Department does not obtained, will he have the claim investi­ keep detailed records of physiotherapists gated and advise the House? employed by hospitals boards. It is known that a number of country hospitals have Answer:- vacancies and that it is often very difficult to fill all the approved positions. It is "Pursuant to Section 286 of the Land not possible to give any prediction as to Act, the transfer of a lease granted under the likely position in 1974." that Act is subject to my prior consent. In the subject case no application for con­ sent to transfer the special lease has been lodged in my Department and, of course, REMEDIAL TEACHERS AND GUIDANCE no consent for transfer has been granted by OFFICERS me. The special lease in question was granted following the calling of tenders Mr. Jensen, pursuant to notice, asked The for developmental rights. The special lease Minister for Education,- granted is subject to various developmental ( I) As Dr. David Frazer stated in conditions and it is not policy to allow Bundaberg that those schools which applied the transfer of a developmental SP.ecial the most pressure on the Education lease of this nature until such time as Department were able to obtain remedial the developmental conditions of lease are teachers, is this the position and, if so, complied with." what schools or areas have achieved results by applying pressure? (2) What is the present position regard­ HousiNG CoMMISSION RENTAL AccoM­ ing the shortage of remedial teachers? MODATION AND PENSIONER UNITS, (3) Is the shortage caused by (a) the IPSWICH curriculum being too difficult, (b) too few Dr. Edwards, pursuant to notice, asked The teachers with the necessary training or :Minister for Works,- (c) teachers not favouring the course because promotion is easier through the With respect to the Ipswich area- normal channels? ( 1) How many Housing Commission ( 4) Do special conditions apply in the houses are available for rental? training of guidance officers and what are their promotional prospects? (2) How many applications has the commission for (a) rental accommoda­ tion and (b) pensioner units? Answers:- ( I) "I have no knowledge of the state­ Answers:- ment reputed to have been made by Dr. David Frazer. It is certainly not correct." ( 1) "At present there are only two vacancies and these are both under offer (2) "The so-called shortage of remedial to applicants." teachers is a relative one. Remedial teachers have been introduced into Queens­ (2) " (a) Other than aged persons- land schools and centres only in recent 25 with priority and 28 without priority. years and their use has been greatly (b) Fourteen plus a further six who have exoanded. A shortage exists in so far as advised that they could be interested in the program for further implementation Ipswich." of this service is not complete. It is pointed out that all teachers undergo training in the use of remedial techniques." (3) "(a) More people, both teachers PHYSIOTHERAPISTS and parents are aware of the existence Dr. Edwards, pursuant to notice, asked The of learning disabilities. The occurrence :Minister for Health,- of these disabilities is not a result of the curriculum. (b) The Department of ( 1) Approximately how many physio­ Education employs relatively more therapists are expected to graduate this remedial teachers than any other State. year from the University of Queensland? There are forty-five remedial teachers at (2) Is there a shortage of physio­ present in centres conducted by the Depart­ therapists? ment of Education. Another twenty com­ menced a course at Mount Gravatt (3) Will most hospital physiotherapy Teachers' College on Monday, September positions be filled next year? 17. Next year it is anticipated that at least Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 609

another forty remedial or resource teachers OPERATIONS OF NORTH COAST QUARRIES, will undergo training. (c) Sufficient appli­ PINE RIVERS SHIRE cants are forthcoming to meet the present Mr. Frawley, pursuant to notice, asked The program of expansion. Care must be taken Minister for Mines,- in expanding the use of specialists not to deprive the ordinary schools of too many ( 1) Is he aware that the firm, North skilled teachers." Coast Quarries, Dayboro Road, Whiteside, in the Shire of Pine Rivers, is carrying out ( 4) "Guidance officers are usually blasting at any hour of the day and at selected from teachers with a university week-ends, to the detriment of the welfare degree and with at least two years study of residents in the area whose homes and of psychology. An additional full years yards are subjected to bombardments of training is given after secondment to the rocks and earth after some explosions? Guidance and Special Education Branch. ( 2) Will he assure the House that the Promotional positions available are: firm will be instructed to take precautions Regional Guidance Officer; Senior Guid­ to prevent rocks and dirt falling on ance Officer and Training Officers. Con­ residences by limiting the charges sideration is being given to the creation exploded? of additional positions of responsibility for guidance officers. Guidance personnel may (3) Can restrictions be placed on the also apply for other promotional positions operations to allow people to enjoy week­ within the Department of Education." ends, early mornings and late evenings free from noise and pollution? Answer:- DIVISIONAL STRIKES, RAILWAY ( 1 to 3) "This quarry is not a gazetted DEPARTMENT quarry under the Mines Regulation Act, Mr. Newbery, pursuant to notice, asked therefore the Department of Mines has The Minister for Transport,- no control over it. It is suggested the Honourable Member take up this matter With reference to rail strikes which have with the local authority concerned." caused disruptions to rail services through­ out Queensland during the last twelve months- CONCESSIONAL FARES FOR STUDENTS ( 1) How many have occurred to rail OF TEACHERS' COLLEGES traffic to and from-(a) North Queens­ Mr. Inch, pursuant to notice, asked The land, (b) North Western Queensland and Premier,- (c) Western Queensland? (1) Under the present State Grants Act, (2) What was the total duration in each does an anomaly exist whereby students district? attending teachers' training colleges do not (3) What was the total amount of come into the category under which student­ wages lost by railway employees as a concession fares are granted to university result? students and those undertaking kinder­ ( 4) What was the total value of primary garten training? produce and other perishables lost as a (2) Is such a situation being currently result and who bore the losses? investigated by all State Governments and the Commonwealth Government with a Answers:- view to amending the Act? (1 and 2) "In the last twelve months (3) If so, what progress has been made strikes have occurred in the Railway in this regard and when will a decision on Divisions as follows:- the matter be made? Answer:- Total No. of ( 1 to 3) "The Question is not clear. Division Strikes Duration Days I am not aware of any Queensland Act of Parliament known as the 'State Grants Act'; and Federal Acts incorporating this South Western 2 8 ,title have a specific application, for South Eastern 3 7 example 'States Grants (Technical Train­ Central 11 21 ing) Act'. State scholarship holders attend­ Northern 7 24 ing teachers' colleges are not disad­ vantaged, in comparison with other tertiary A strike in one Division affects operations students, insofar as travel concessions in all other Divisions." from the Queensland Government are con­ cerned. I have no knowledge of any (3) "$56,386." investigations by the State Governments ( 4) "This information is not available and Commonwealth Government into the to me. However, it can well be appreciated matters referred to by the Honourable that the losses would be astronomical." Member." 20 610 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

PROPOSED NATIONAL COMPANIES ACT APPLICATIONS FOR ASSISTANCE BY Mr. Alison, pursuant to notice, asked The SPORTING BODIES Minister for Justice,- Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked The In view of his reported comments at Minister for Tourism,- Maryborough last week, what details of ( 1) How many properly-selected sporting the proposed national Companies Act have teams representing the State received been provided by the Commonwealth assistance from the Department of Sport Attorney-General to the Queensland Gov­ during its first year of operation? ernment? (2) Do the organisations of the sporting Answer:- bodies concerned have to indicate to the Department that their methods of selection "No specific details have been provided. are properly representative on a State-wide A paper which was stated as not binding method of selection before they can qualify on the Commonwealth Government was for assistance? presented at the meeting of the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General at Perth (3) Do the organisations of the sporting in July last." bodies also have to supply details on the efforts that they are making in relation to State-wide coaching, where the sport EXAMINERS, AUSTRALIAN MUSIC is played State-wide, so that every player EXAMINATION BoARD in the State is given the opportunity to bring himself or herself up to the level Mr. Ahern for Mr. Casey, pursuant to of State representative honours? notice, asked The Minister for Education,- ( 4) If the organisations are required to ( 1) Does his Department sponsor the supply the details, did all bodies which Australian Music Examination Board and, were given assistance meet the standards? if so, to what extent? If not, what are the standards? (2) Is he aware that the board had difficulty in getting suitable examiners to Answers:- visit Queensland country centres again this year, and that when they were obtained (1) "Fifty." only very short notice was given to teachers (2) "Yes." and students, thus creating a complete re-orientation of arrangements for all con­ (3) "No. A number of sporting asso­ cerned and a great deal of inconvenience? ciations and affiliated clubs have conduoted coaching courses for juniors throughout (3) Will he take action to overcome this the State and upon application before the problem so that teachers, students and closing date, have received the approved parents are given more notice? subsidy of one dollar for each one dollar Answers:- expended by the association or club con­ cerned. It is not the function of the (1) "Yes. The Australian Music Department of Sport to direct sporting Examination Board has an administering bodies as to when and where they should authority in each State and in Queensland hold coaching courses." the Department of Education is charged with this responsibility." (4) "See Answers to (2) and (3)." (2) "Yes. Unfortunately the number of music examiners available for country travel was depleted following appointments COMPULSORY NOTICE OF RESIGNATION to the Conservatorium staff, an interstate FROM POLICE FORCE transfer, an illness and a death. It was necessary to wait until some examiners Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked The had fulfilled other commitments before Minister for Works,- finalising the Mackay program which ( 1) How many members of the Police included a diploma examination for which Force have taken action to resign and are two examiners are required. This was still serving under the requirements of done as soon as possible in order to com­ compulsory, lengthy-notice provisions? plete the examinations before the August (2) Is the Commissioner currently school vacation but, regrettably, in many enforcing the compulsory notice period of cases it involved short notice." three months in relation to all resigna­ (3) "Yes. In fact, new appointments tions? If not, in what percentage of cases were made to the panel of music examiners is the rule being enforced? in the latter part of 1972 and as these (3) Because of the views expressed by personnel have now undergone the usual the Commissioner in his annual report intensive training program in examination regarding public relations and statistics, is procedures and standards, more examiners the enforcement of three months' notice will be available for work in country areas an imposition on the person concerned in 1974, thus facilitating programming of and of no use to the public, and does it examinations in Mackay which is one of only help to keep statistical figures on twenty-three centres in the northern area." police numbers as high as possible? Questions Upon Notice (20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 611

Answers:- merits having regard to the efficient work­ ing of the Police Force. As no period of ( 1) "Fourteen; but in some instances time has been specified by the Honourable members have voluntarily given three Member, and in view of varying circum­ months' notice of intention to resign." stances connected with resignations, it is (2) "The requirement of the Police Act not possible to state a percentage of cases as regards three months' notice of resigna­ where three months' notice has been tion is not as a general rule being currently required." enforced. Each case is determined on its (3) "See Answer to (2)."

OPERATIONS OF SMALL CLAIMS TRIBUNAL Mr. Chinchen, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Justice,- ( 1) What are the details of orders issued by the Referee of the Small Claims Tribunal in the first two months of its operation? (2) How many claims were dismissed, withdrawn, cancelled or adjourned? Answers:- ( 1) "In the period from the commencement of operation of the Small Claims Tribunal on July 1, 1973 to and including August 31, 1973, 30 orders were made by the referee. Details of the orders are in the document which I table for the information of Honourable Members." (2) "During the same period 12 claims were dismissed, 24 withdrawn, 4 cancelled and 14 adjourned." Papers.-Whereupon Mr Knox laid upon the Table of the House the document referred to. CLAIMS IN WHICH ORDERS MADE AGAINST RESPONDENTS

Claim No. and Claimant Respondent Nature of Claim Order

3. Sheppard, Mrs. Mar- A. Bainbrigge, Plumbing Defective painting of house. Respondent ordered to pay to jorie and Painting Repairers Claim for $125 or painting Claimant $125 within 14 days to be rectified of this date 9. Mathews, Russell Gor- Fleming Demolitions (Bren- Refund of money paid for Respondent ordered to pay to don Haig den Fleming) sub-standard timber Claimant the sum of $20 within 7 days of this date. Respondent to be at liberty to retake possession of the subject timber 13. De Voss, Leonard Fran- W. J. Lee, Licensed Plumber Cost of replacing guttering Respondent to pay to Claimant cis on house ($145)-Gutter­ the sum of $195 within ing and downpipes leaking 14 days of this date at all joints. Claim amended during hearing to $195 14. Fahey, William Stanley Whip, L. Refund of money on faulty Respondent to pay to Claimant Motor ~ower the sum of$40 within 14 days of this date 15. Scheinpftug, Harry Brisbane Renovation Centre Work to be completed in Respondent is ordered to Charles accordance with contract complete the job in accord­ or refund of deposit ance with the Contract between Claimant and Re­ spondent, and in default of so completing the Contract within 14 days of this date. Respondent to pay to Claim­ ant the sum of $200 16. Stewart, Miss Joyce M. & V. Painters .. $160 to rectify the faulty Respondent to pay to Claimant Harriett Thelander, workmanship when steps the sum of $220 within Hon. Chairman of, and eaves were painted. 14 days of this date and acting for and on Amount of claim amended behalf of The Pro­ to $220 prietors of "Kingston Lodge" 17. Martin, Herbert George, Aubrey Refundofcostofsupplyand Respondent to pay to Claimant setting lawn $190 within 14 days of this date 21. Bliss, Moira Marguerite Christie, Mr. D. I $140 for roof which had to Respondent ordered to pay to be replaced Claimant $140 within 14 days of this date 26. McCullough, Andrew Buckingham, W. E., Bris- Refund of $450 paid for Respondent to pay to Claimant and Bernice Priscilla bane Renovating Centre work which was not the sum of $450 within completed; extension at 14 days of this date rear of dwelling 612 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

CLAIMS IN WHICH ORDERS MADE AGAINST RESPONDENTS-continued

Claim No. and Claimant Respondent Nature of Claim Order

27. Peet, Leslie IBioletti, Timothy Charles .. Refund of $200 on job of Respondent to pay to Claimant painting front and rear the sum of $100 within 7 days steps and hand rails, of this date guttering and down pipes and vents, also window sills completed as speci­ fied 28. Ward, Reginald William I" Gem Flooring" Mr. Mal Refund of $198 or sat is- Respondent to pay to Claimant Hansell factory repair of the $198 within 14 days of this Patio in a specified time date 31. Peters, Ronald James .. Fee, R. $170 for painting of roof Respondent to pay to Claimat?t and $30 for painting of $200 within 14 days of th1s stairs OR work performed date as per tender and quote 32. Reid, Kenneth Suther- Flick Pest & Weed Control $286 for roof which had to be Respondent to pay to Claimant land replaced as result of work the sum of$125 within 7 days done by Flick Pest and of this date Weed Control

35. Bytheway, Albert Redcliffe Insect Screen & Floor to be remade to Mr. Respondent to pay to Claimant Thomas Awning Bytheway's complete the sum of$57 within 14 days satisfaction and guaran­ of this date teed as such or his money refunded in full 41. Gunning, John Weir .. Pearce, Steve, Local Carrier Return of both drawers­ Respondent ordered to return one lost by Respondent to Claimant the two drawers during transport and one the subject of the Claim used by Respondent to within 14 days of this date obtain replacement and in default of so return­ ing the two drawers withi? the period of 14 days of th1s date, Respondent ordered to pay to Claimant the sum of $27.04 being the value of the two drawers, on or before the 3rd day of September, 1973

45. Wynne, Mrs. Marguerite Hipwood, Mr. K. Refund of $360 for house Respondent order to pay to painted and after two Claimant the sum of $360 weeks went mildewed within 14 days of this date 47. Hendra, Dorothy Ann Burrows, K. D. and J. T ... Painting of roof to be Respondents ordered to pay to finished Claimant the sum of $110 within 14 days of this date

58. Beets, Brian Norman .. Csikos, P. Refund of $20 rent plus Respondent ordered to pay to balance of $30 Bond claimant the sum of $5.30 within 14 days of this date

59. Bristow, William Waiter Stokes, N. • , Job to be completed or Respondent ordered to com­ George money refunded. Failure plete the job in accordance to complete installation with quote dated ~l-1-1973, of household waste drain­ referring to Council Plan No. age 195511 and in default of so completing the job within 14 days ofthis date, Respondent to pay to Claimant the sum of$340 Respondent to pay to Clai_mant 62. Leatch, Alan Joseph · · Stans Garage (part of Stans Refund of $15 for repairs I which were worthless the sumof$7 .50 forthwith as Pty. Ltd.) refund of part of Labour Charge

75. Alexander, carol Ann Reginald Paul and Patricia Refund of $90 which was Respondents are or ere(!' to Shun Wah and Andrew bond, &c., on flat and was pay to Claimant the sum of $79. 16 forth with Yau~Shaw and Rosemary not returned when flat was Chan vacated

CLAIMS IN WHICH ORDERS WERE MADE i Claim No. and Claimant Respondent Nature of Claim 1 Order ------l-----~------+------1 37. Kidner, Veronica McMillian, Harold and Refund of $200 paid for 'I Respondents are ordered to pay Prances Shirley cupboards which were not to Claimant the sum of $200 made within !4 days of this date. ' (28-8-1973)

38. Bagnall, Keith Dennis Ron Pollard-Hot Dip $31. 19-cost of re-soldering Respondent ordered to pay to Galvanizers the Extractor, incurred by Claimant the sum of $5 Claimant for employing a firm to put the Extractor back into its original 1 condition 1 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 613

CLAIMS IN WHICH ORDERS WERE MADE-continued

I _c_Ia_i_m_N_o_. _an_d_C_Ia_im_an_t_l Respondent Nature of Claim / Order 1 54. Woodcock, Cheryl i Iris Jones Refund of money paid for I Respondent ordered to pay to Jacqueline 1 material made up in an Claimant the sum of $32. 99 unworkmanlike manner ,' within 14 days of this date. (27-8-1973) 84. Lee, Jillane Margaret .. I Sothea Boutique Refund of Credit allowed on Respondent ordered to pay to I returned slacks Claimant the sum of $14 ; within 14 days of this date. (27-8-1973) 85. Sinclair, Esther Peter Mines Refund of $149 paid for Respondent ordered to pay to pebble finish to steps and Claimant $149 within 14 days patio which is cracking of this date. {29-8-1973) and peeling 86. O'Kane, Dermot John Morgan and Wacker Pty. Return of outboard motor Respondent ordered to pay to Ltd. and payment of $350 for Claimant the sum of $200 Joss of motor due to and to return motor to negligence in repairs Claimant at no further cost to Claimant within 7 days of I this date. (29-8-1973) 88. Yearhury, Wayne I O'Reilly, Daniel Refund of $270 paid for Respondent ordered to pay to panelheating and repairs Claimant $100 on or before to motor vehicle which 7th September, 1973 were unsatisfactory 94. Eliott, Lee .. I Automatic Transmissions Payment of $250 to rectify Respondent ordered to pay to Pty. Ltd. faulty repairs to automatic Claimant the sum of $250 transmission of motor within 14 days of this date i vehicle 98. Pincus, Dr. David Williams, R. . ·1 Repair of wall erected by Respondent ordered to pay to Fabian I Respondent and blown Claimant the sum of $250 down by wind within 14 days of this date. I (31-8-1973) I I

NEW SLIPWAYS AND BOATING FACILITIES, 1971 and on July 4 1973 advice was MANLY BOAT HARBOUR received that the council had now given Mr. Hanis, pursuant to notice, asked The its approval to the building plans." Minister for Conservation,- (5) "No." ( 1) When was the tender accepted by ( 6) "I am fully conscious of the his Department for the construction of importance of, and the urgent need for, slipways and other facilities to be erected this facility in the Manly Boat Harbour on reclaimed land adjacent to the Manly and I regret the delays which I have Boat Harbour? described. The successful tenderer has (2) When was construction to be com­ indicated that he expects to commence the menced? works within three months. If this does not occur consideration will be given to (3) What was the anticipated date of a cancellation of the lease." completion? ( 4) How far has the project advanced? PLANS FOR RESTORATION WORK, ASHGROVE QUARRY (5) If no start has been made, has the tender been forfeited or cancelled? Mr. Miller, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Local Government,- ( 6) Will he give an assurance that this necessary facility will be constructed Further to his Answer to my Question at this or another suitable location and regarding the restoration of the Ashgrove when will it be completed? quarry site, as the residents have already received a reply from the Brisbane City Council refusing them the right to peruse Answers:- the restoration plan, will he seek the (1) "June 27, 1969." co-operation of the council in making the plan public so that the residents can object (2) "No commencement date was should the scheme not be in their best specified." interest? (3) "Within eighteen months of Answer:- acceptance of tender." "The Honourable Member will recall ( 4) "Commencement has been delayed that in answer to Question No. 6 on pending Brisbane City Council approval of September 19, 1973, I indicated that in the slipway development and the successful my opinion the residents of the area should tenderer's building application. Approval be permitted to view the plan of restoration of the development was obtained in June for the quarry and I suggested that the 614 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

residents concerned should approach their matter is being actively followed up and local alderman in this matter. There is appropriate action will be taken at the no legislative requirement that such plans earliest practicable date." be made available for public scrutiny or criticism and I am not prepared to make any requests of the Brisbane City Council as suggested as the decision on this matter FULL-TIME MECHANICS FOR 'WEIPA rests solely with that council. I again SOUTH AND LOCKHART RIVER suggest that the residents take up the ABORIGINAL COMMUNITIES with matter their local alderman." Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Conservation,- ( I) Has a mechanic taken up duty at ELECTION OF CouNCIL FOR PROPOSED (a) Weipa South and (b) Lockhart River? TOWN OF TORRES Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked (2) How long have the communities The Minister for Local Government,- been without a mechanic? ( 3) Have arrangements been made to (1) In view of the Government's inten­ provide each community with a mechanic tion to include Torres Strait islands in a local authority, will he consider having instead of one mechanic dividing his time an elected council instead of the present be:ween the tvw? appointed advisory body for the Thursday Island local authority area? Answers:- (2) Will he consider representation from (1) " (a) A mechanic has been each of the eastern. central and western appointed to Weipa South and it is island groups? · anticipated he will take up duty in the near future. (b) The vacant position of Answer:- mechanic at Lockhart River has been (1 and 2) "The three months' period advertised on four occasions. One appli­ of notice of intention to create the town cant was appointed but did not take up of Torres, incorporating the present town duty. The position is presently being re­ of Thursday Island, part of the Shire of advertised." Cook, and various islands not at present (2) "In August, 1973, a temporary within a local authority area expires on mechanic worked at Weipa South for a November 11 next. Up to that date, sub­ period of two weeks and all motor vehicles missions in writing may be made to me by were placed in working order. The former any interested persons in respect of the mechanic at Lockhart River resigned in proposal. In these circumstances I do December, 1972, and action is presently not desire to prejudge any submissions in hand for a mechanic to proceed to that may be in the course of preparation Lockhart River to carry out urgent or may be proposed, and which may repairs." include the matters raised in the Question. However, the matters raised will certainly (3) "Yes." be considered at the appropriate time."

ELECTORAL ENROLMENT OF 18 TO ROCK-CRUSHING PLANT FOR DAUAN 21-YEAR-OLD PERSONS ISLAND Mr. Lane, pursuant to notice, asked The Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked Minister for Justice,- The Minister for Conservation,- ( 1 ) At what places can persons aged (,!) Has he received requests from between 18 and 21 years obtain enrol­ Dauan Island for a plant to crush rock? ment cards for the State Electoral Roll? (2) When was this request made and (2) Is enrolment of persons in this have negotiations taken place concerning age range satisfactory, and what action the price and market? will be taken to ensure that all 18, 19 and (3) Where are the markets for crushed 20-year-olds are made aware of the right rock and has he considered the require­ and the responsibility which the Queens­ ments of many islands where there is a land Government has conferred upon scarcity of the material? them?

Answer:- Answers:- ( 1 to 3) "The prov1s!on of a crushing ( 1) "Supplies of cards for enrolment plant at Dauan is under consideration but on the State Electoral Roll are furnished until definite requirements and sound to all Police Stations, Court Houses, Post markets are established it is not possible Offices and Electoral Offices (State and to determine an appropriate unit. The Commonwealth). A fresh supply was for­ Honourable Member is assured that the warded to all of these offices in time for Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 615

the new enrolment card to be used when TWO-PAGE NEWSPAPER ADVERTISEMENT the age for enrolment was reduced to 18 FOR NEW BRAND OF CIGARETTE years on July 1 last." Mr. Dean, pursuant to notice, asked The (2) "A check of the electors enrolled on Minister for Health,- Augus-t 27 last, indicated that 37,069 in With reference to the full two-page the age group 18-20 years had enrolled. advertisement in The Courier-Mail of Sep­ This was approximately 45 per cent. of the tember 18 for a brand of cigarette, to what estimated total of eligible persons in this extent does the size of this publicity age group and at that stage could be con­ contravene official anti-cancer campaigns sidered a satisfactory progress result. How­ or interfere with efforts to ensure that the ever, it is my intention ,to have instituted public is aware that smoking is a health a programme of publicity to ensure that hazard? all these persons are made aware of their responsibilities under the Act. With the Answer:- customary house-to-house canvass of the "Whilst advertisements aimed at the pro­ rolls in the year preceding the General motion of sales of a particular brand of Election, it can be expected that all eligible cigarettes may conflict with anti-cancer persons will be enrolled in the near future." campaigns, I am not aware that there has been any breach of health legislation.''

NEW COURTS BUILDING, NORTH QUAY Mr. Lane, pursuant to notice, asked The REDRESS FOR TENANTS REFUSED Minister for Justice,- REFUND OF BOND MONEYS Concerning the new court premises under Mr. Hanlon, pursuant to notice, asked The construction on North Quay- Minister for Justice,- ( 1) When is the building scheduled for ( 1) Is he aware of the position in which corn pietion? a considerable number of tenants are placed when some landlords refuse to refund bonds (2) What courts will use the building? without just cause, particularly those ten­ (3) Will the building include adequate ants of limited means who are asked for facilities for citizens who perform a most a similar bond in advance when seeking important public service as jurymen and alternative accommodation? jurywomen? (2) As this does not appear to come Answers:- within the ambit of the Small Claims Tribunal, will he consider some appropriate ( l) "Excluding eventualities beyond the avenue of recourse? control of the contractor, such as strikes and shortage of materials, it is anticipated Answers:- that the building will be completed about August next year." ( 1) "I am not aware of the extent of this reprehensible practice.'' (2) "District Courts and Magistrates Courts will be accommodated m the (2) "It would seem that in the cir­ building." cumstances as outlined the tenant would (3) 'The facilities for jurors will be be entitled to bring action against the adequate and will, in fact, be a consider­ landlord in the Magistrates Court. As able improvement on those presently the relationship is one of landlord and available." tenant and not trader and consumer I feel it would be inadvisable to bring any such claim within tbe ambit of the Small Claims Tribunal Act." DISREGARD OF "DoN'T WALK" SIGNALS BY PEDESTRIANS, BRISBANE Mr. Dean, pursuant to notice, asked The REGULATIONS COVERING LANDLORD'S Minister for Transport,- RIGHT OF RE-ENTRY INTO PREMISES In view of the continuing blatant dis­ Mr. Hanlon, pursuant to notice, asked The regard or ill-informed disobedience by Minister for Justice,- Brisbane pedestrians of "DoN'T WALK" ( I) Is he aware of proposals indicated signals at Albert, Edward and George in New South Wales by the Minister for Streets, can enforcement action be taken Justice, Mr. Maddison, to regulate in that to overcome the accident hazard involved, State the landlord's right of re-entry into as well as the interruption to traffic flow residences, with severe penal sanctions which the signals are designed to assist? against those who do not abide by the regulations? Answer:- (2) As Mr. Maddison stated that this "This matter does not come within my was aimed at protecting people in the administration." lower income groups from an arbitrary 616 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

form of ejection in the middle of the the senior constable, (b) the three con­ night and as there are instances of stand­ stables 1/C and (c) the two constables over evictions outside the procedures of who are attached to the unit? the law in this State, in which widows and deserted wives are particularly at hazard, (2) To whom does the unit report and, will he consider similar regulations and if it reports to Senior Sergeant J. J. Cronin, penal sanctions? to whom does he report?

Answers:- (3) Are any special requirements laid down relating to the structure or com­ (1) "Yes." munications of the unit? (2) "This matter is presently under consideration." ( 4) How many children have been charged since the establishment of the unit, what were their ages and what is STAFF ESTABLISHMENT, POLICE the number of charges relating to each DISTRICTS group? Mr. Marginson for Mr. N. F. Jones, pur­ suant to notice, asked The Minister for (5) How many children in each age Works,- group were charged on more than one count? ( 1) How many police were stationed, as at June 30, 1970, 1971, 1972 and 1973, in each of the police districts of Brisbane, Ans1t1ers:- Bundaberg, Cairns, Charleville, Fortitude Valley, Gold Coast, Innisfail, Ipswich, (l) "(a) Plain Clothes Senior Con­ Longreach, Mackay, Maryborough, Mount stable K. J. Hoggett; (b) Constable 1/C Isa, Rockhampton, Roma, South Brisbane, C. Degnan, Constable 1/C R. J. Wilkinson, Toowoomba, Townsville and Warwick? Constable l/C L. R. Dickson; (c) Con­ stable D. A. Laird, P.W. Constable L. A. (2) What was the rank structure of Saunders." the districts at the same dates? (2) "The unit reports to Detective Answer:- Senior Sergeant S. W. Currey who recently ( 1 and 2) "All of the information took over charge of the unit from Detec­ sought by the Honourable Member is tive Senior Sergeant J. J. Cronin. Detec­ not readily available in statistical form. tive Senior Sergeant Currey reports direct I will table such information. which is to Inspector R. N. Mcintyre who is a being collated, as soon as possible." Commissioned Officer in charge of the Burglary Unit."

(3) "There are no special requirements RESIGNATIONS, POLICE FORCE laid down in relation to the structure and Mr. Marginson for Mr. N. F. Jones, pur­ communications of this unit which do suant to notice, asked The Minister for not apply to every other unit at the Works,- Criminal Investigation Branch." (1) How many resignations were effected within the Police Force for (a) ( 4) "Seventy-five. the year ended June 30, 1973, and (b) the No. of Charges two months ended August 31, 1973? Ages of Children 10 2 (2) What were the ranks of those who 11 16 resigned in the two months ended August 12 29 31, 1973? 13 130 Answers:- 14 116 15 32 (1) "(a) 101; (b) 15." 16 50, (2) "Sergeants 2/C. 2; Senior Con­ stables, 4; Constables 1/C, 2; Constables, (5)- 7." No. of Children in age " Ages of Children group charged on more than one count LIAISON UNIT, EDUCATION DEPARTMENT 10 1 Mr. Marginson for Mr. N. F. Jones, pur­ 11 3 suant to notice, asked The Minister for 12 5 Works,- 13 17 (1) Further to my Question of August 14 19 30, regarding the Education Department 15 9 Liaison Unit, what are the names of (a) 16 12, Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973} Questions Upon Notice 617

MOTOR VEHICLE WARRANTIES New standards were approved by Cabinet Mr. Ahern for Dr. Scott-Young, pursuant in J 972 and planning has proceeded to to notice, asked The Minister for Justice,- bring libraries in all schools up to these ( 1) Has his attention been drawn to new standards. This is being accomplished remarks attributed to the Commonwealth in several ways: (a) Full library facili­ Minister for Transport concerning motor ties are provided when new schools are vehicle warranties? constructed. (b) Where existing accom­ (2) In view of the vague and nebulous modation is available the area is being nature of the Commonwealth Minister's CO"''-''' ··ted to libr:1ry use. (c) Free-standing comments, will he make available to him buildings are being constructed at selected his own positive and useful comments on schools throughout the State. The selec­ the subject so that he might be better tion of these schools has been made on informed on the question of warranties, particularly when they rela.te to motor the advice of Regional Directors of Educa­ vehicles? tion, Inspectors of Schools and the Super­ visor of School Library Services, keeping in mind the following criteria: (a) enrol­ Answers:- ment, (b) location, (c) existing library ( 1) "I read with interest the reported facilities, (d) development of book stocks, comments of the Federal Transport Minis­ (e) interest shown by teachers and par­ ter (Mr. Jones) on Monday concerning motor vehicle warranties." ents in library usage. In the first round of selection, four schools were nominated (2) "In an address to the Chamber of from each of the nine education regions." Automotive Industries of Queensland on August 14, I outlined specific proposals (2)- to make warranties and guarantees more effective, and more clearly understood by "Enrolments as at 1-8-73 consumers. I am hopeful that these pro­ I. W oodridge 1,511 posals will be introduced by way of legis­ 2. Upper Mt. Gravatt 1,339 lation in the near future. I agree with 3. Goodna 1,329 the Honourable Member that the Federal 4. Silkstone .. 1,276 Minister's comments were vague and 5. Everton Park 1,256 nebulous. Furthermore, I cannot under­ 6. Mt. Gravatt East 1,207 stand why the Federal Government wants 7. Richlands East 1,150 to involve itself in this field when the 8. Scarborough 1,130 Queensland Government at least, is pre­ 9. Clontarf Beach 1,106 pared to take positive steps to protect the 10. Woodridge North 1,100 rights of the consumer. Perhaps the only 11. Runcorn .. 1,086 reason could be that this is just another 12. Acacia Ridge 1,06g project of the apparent majority group in 13. Mackay North 1,03.5 the present Federal Ministry who appear 14. Aitkenvale (Townsville) 1,019 to launch an attack on a different Aus­ 15. Mt. Gravatt 1,017 tralian industry almost every day." 16. M undingburra (Townsville) 1,003 17. Burleigh Heads 991 18. Geebung .. 971 19. Broadbeach 969 20. Southport 968 PRIORITIES FOR LIBRARIES, PRIMARY 21. The Gap .. 961 SCHOOLS 22. Aspley East 935 Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked 23. Currumbin 924 The Minister for Education,- 24. Moorooka 920 25. Nambour .. 918 ( 1) On what basis of priorities are 26. Mt. Gravatt South 910 libraries being built at primary schools? 27. Walkervale (Bundaberg) 908 902 (2) What are the names and locations 28. Mitchelton 29. Wynnum North .. 901 of the thirty-six largest primary schools? 30. Kippa Ring ...... 900 ( 3) Will any Cairns schools be included 31. Frenchvil!e (N. Rockhampton) .. 896 in the proposal to construct libraries for 32. Aspley 896 primary schools under the Commonwealth 33. Gladstone West 895 34. Currajong 884 Government's scheme to allocate moneys 883 for this purpose and, if so, which are they? 35. Wilston 36. Bundamba 880" ( 3) "Administrative machinery for the Answers:- allocation of funds made available by the ( 1) "The library is considered to be Interim Committee of the Australian a most important facility in a primary Schools Commission has not been organ­ scho0l and an attempt has been made to ized by the Commonwealth Government. provide adequate facilities in all schools. It is known that a special committee to 618 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

consider matters relating to primary school (3) What recent decisions and work libraries is being set up, but no decisions have been undertaken by his Department have been advised. It is expected that the to help relieve the industry of these dis­ selection of schools at which additional eases, and has the C.S.I.R.O. been called funds may be expended will be integrated in to assist his Department in its work? with overall planning. Such planning, as indicated in ( 1) above, includes consider­ Answers:- ation of the needs of all schools through­ out the State." ( 1)

"Papaws HOUSING COMMISSION UNITS FOR AGED PENSIONERS, CAIRNS ------,~---- Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked Production Estimated Value The Minister for Works,- \ With reference to his Answer to my Bus. Tons Question on November 17, 1972, con­ 1968-69 454,294 5,679 $1,300,000 cerning the erection of eleven single and four married units being constructed at 1969-70 448,831 5,610 $1,500,000 Grove Street, Cairns, under the Dwellings for Aged Pensioners Scheme, what was 1970-71 445,051 5,563 $1,200,000 the expiry date of the contract time, what were the extensions of time granted and 1971-72 446,339 5,579 $1,400,000 what are the expected completion and occupancy dates? 1972-73 n.a. n.a. n.a.

Answer:- n.a.-not available "The original expiry date was July 19, 1973 which has been extended to October (2) "The answer is obvious in the Question. These diseases have plagued 9, 1973. The contractor has advised that the industry severely from time to time he was unable to obtain sufficient timber over the last 40 years without wiping it locally and has had to bring timber from out. In past outbreaks growers have Southern Queensland. This contractor is been afraid that the indu~try was in danger by no means the most efficient organiser of extinction, but in fact it has recovered in the business but it has to be conceded each time and continued to expand, and there is no reason to expect that it will that he has encountered difficulties on this not do so again. In the recent Depart­ contract. This would not be the only mental statement it was in no way implied current contract in the homebuilding indus­ that the industry was not badly hit; but try in Queensland which, due to the in the same way as an industry may be abnormally high volume of available work, badly hit by a series of droughts, we do is experiencing difficulties in obtaining not believe that this spells extinction." prompt supply of materials and of secur­ (3) "With the recent outbreak of die­ ing the necessary number of tradesmen. back my Department has directed special In the final analysis the completion and attention to this disorder. First a detailed occupancy dates will be determined by snrvey was made of a range of planta­ tions recording any factors which might these factors." have an important bearing on the trouble. In the light of this survey and earlier intensive surveys at Redlands Horticultural PRODUCTION AND DISEASE RESEARCH, Research Station, it appears most likely PAPAW INDUSTRY that the disorder is physiological in nature and not due to any disease organism. Mr. Hanson, pursuant to notice, asked The Efforts are now being concentrated at two Minister for Primary Industries,- major horticultural research centres on ( 1) What were the tonnages and value devising and testing methods of control. of papaw production for 1968-69, 1969- The cause of yellow crinkle has been 70, 1970-71, 1971-72 and 1972-73? identified by my officers, and studies are being concentrated on the insect carriers (2) As many growers have suffered of this disease. In response to a request almost 100 per cent. losses in their crops from the Hon. Rex Patterson, M.P., for the last two to three years, and as Minister for Northern Development and the disease, die-back, has affected the indus­ to the Hon. D. N. Everingham, M.P., try since 1921 and mosaic and yellow Minister for Health, for approval of a crinkle have also plagned the indnstry, preliminary assessment of the problem by what is the basis for recent departmental C.S.I.R.O., I wrote to both members on statements that the papaw industry is June 1, 1973 outlining the problem and in no danger of extinction? approving their request." Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 619

TREASURY DEPARTMENT OPERATIONS Answer:- oN SHORT-TERM MoNEY MARKET "My Department has records relating 1\fr. Hanson, pursuant to notice, asked The only to the sales of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T Treasurer,- made by the Department in accordance ( 1) What are the names of the present with the policy whereby those herbicides official dealers in the short-term money are supplied at cost price. Separate market with whom the Treasury business figures are not readily available in respect is placed? of those sales to Government Authorities, Local Authorities and private industry but, (2) Are all amounts deposited with during the year 1971, 40,845 gallons dealers still published in the Queensland (apr!·o,imately 217 tons) of those herbi­ Government Gazette? cides were sold for $156,909 and in 1972, (3) Has there been any increase in 43,766 gallons (approximately 232 tons) the number of dealer applicants since were sold for $169.174. I understand that 1968, and of these how many have been similar type herbicides are available also rejected and how many have been from various private suppliers but my accepted? Department has no record of such sales." ( 4) Has he noted that the A.G .C. within the last five days pushed up interest rates on unsecured notes repayable at call (b) Mr. Burns, pursuant to notice, asked after three months, and although this has The Minister for Primary Industries,- no direct relationship with the Treasury exercise, has he or have his officers in ( 1) In view of the expected banning recent days had conferences with short­ of all uses of 2,4,5-T in the United States term money market operators and, if so, of America before the end of 1974, and what are the results or likely benefits to as heavy reliance is placed on this pesti­ the State? cide for weed control and tree clearing in Queensland, what steps are planned towards Answers:- either banning or instituting safer control methods for this chemical? ( 1) "There are nine official Short Term Money Market dealers licensed with the (2) What figures are available on the Reserve Bank and the Treasury does busi­ average and range of concentrations of ness with each depending on rates and dioxin contaminant in batches of 2,4,5-T conditions they offer on the day. Their used in Queensland in 1971 and 1972? names are-All-States Discount Ltd., (3) How many samples or batches A.M.P. Discount Corporation Ltd., Cape! from the manufacturer were sampled to Court Securities Ltd., Delfin Discount arrive at these figures? Company Ltd., First Federation Discount ( 4) How often is the level of dioxin Co. Ltd., National Discount Corp. Ltd., contamination in 2,4,5-T checked? Short Term Acceptances Ltd., Trans City Discount Ltd., United Discount Co. of Answers:- Australia Ltd." (!) "No steps have been taken to ban (2) "No. It has been found to be not the use of 2,4,5-T in Queensland. Officers good business to publish transactions with of my Department are closely associated individual dealers. Publication is not with the Pesticides Co-ordinator in the required by the Treasury Funds Invest­ Commonwealth Department of Primary ment Act." Industry who is responsible for gathering ( 3) "There has been no increase in and disseminating information on agricul­ the number of registered dealers." tural chemicals in Australia. Problems ( 4) '·I am aware that interest rates associated with 2,4,5-T have been among on commercial unsecured notes have the subjects on which a close watch has increased. However, Short Term Money been kept, but, to date, known technical Market rates are determined daily in the information does not provide grounds for market place and depend solely on supply prohibiting its use. 2,4,5-T is not used and demand. The borrower has discretion on edible crops in Queensland." as to the rates offered for each transaction (2) "My Department has made no deter­ and the acceptance or rejection of these minations for dioxin content on 2,4,5-T rates is the prerogative of the lender." in Queensland." (3) "See Answer to (2)." (4) "See Answer to (2)." PESTICIDES 2,4,5-T AND 2,4-D (a) Mr. Bousen, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Lands,- What was the quantity in tons and the (c) Mr. Burns, pursuant to notice, asked value in dollars of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D The Minister for Health,- applied as herbicides in Queensland in 1971 ( 1) What are the figures for the ambient and 1972 by (a) the Government, (b) air concentrations of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T local authorities and (c) private industry? in air samples taken throughout the year? 620 Questions Upon Notice (20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

(2) What is the dioxin concentration in State Health Department has regularly these samples? examined fish available on the markets. There have been no samples of excess (3) In view of the importance of this mercury in the usual types of edible fish poison as a possible source of pollution, normally eaten by the Queensland public. how often are air and rain samples checked Analyses of one or two large predatory for 2,4-D, 2,4,5-T and dioxin concentra­ species have revealed mercury above the tions? recommended standard. Sources of mercury ( 4) What are the rain concentration are both natural and man-made; the rela­ figures? tive contributions from these sources are not clearly defined. I am advised that Answer:- mercury found in fish in Queensland waters would most likely arise from natural ( I to 4) "I am advised that the questions sources." asked by the Honourable Member have no relevance as the materials, after appli­ (2) "No. In the samples of edible fish cation, are deposited on foliage and due from Torres Strait islands, the amount of to their physical nature and chemical mercury found was below recommended properties are not again dispersed into the standards. It must be stated, however, that atmosphere. I am further advised that the samples examined from this area were the Acting Pesticides Co-ordinator for the relatively few. Further investigation is Department of Primary Industries in Can­ proceeding." berra has intimated that dioxin is not (3) "There is no danger from mercury present in the materials as supplied in in the consumption of fish by the amateur Australia." fisherman whose catches are of the normal small edible varieties. The only way to determine mercury in fish is by expert PAYMENT OF VOLUNTEER WORKERS analy_ois." DURING INDUSTRIAL DISPUTE AT PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS LOANS BY RURAL RECONSTRUCTION Mr. Bousen, pursuant to notice asked The BoARD Minister for Health,- ' Mr. Aiken, pursuant to notice, asked The Will the volunteers who worked in Minister for Lands,- psychiatric hospitals during the recent industrial dispute be paid for their services ( 1) What is the average loan allocation and, if so, what amount of wages or salary granted by the Rural Reconstruction Board will they receive? for (a) farm build-up and (b) debt reconstruction? Answer:- (2) What is the gross amount of loans "The volunteers who have worked in the for (a) sheep properties, (b) beef proper­ psychiatric hospitals during the present ties and (c) farming properties up to the strike will receive a gratuity related to the present time? pay of the people they replaced." (3) What is the largest individual loan for (a) sheep properties, (b) cattle prop­ erties and (c) agricultural farms? :MERCURY CONTAMINATION IN FISH ( 4) Since the initiation of the rural Mr. Aiken, pursuant to notice, asked The reconstruction scheme, what amounts of Minister for Health,- money have been repaid by borrowers and ( 1) Is the concentration of mercury in how many borrowers have completely fish caught in Queensland waters con­ liquidated loans? sidered in excess of acceptable health levels and is it the result of pollution from man­ Answers:- made sources? (!) "(a) $31,163; (b) $22,155." (2) Have excess levels of mercury been (3) "(a) $94,754; (b) $67,300; (c) found in fish caught in the Cape York $76,500. The Answers to Questions (2) regions or in other Queensland waters far and ( 4) are not readily available but the from pollution sources? necessary research is being undertaken and ( 3) What dangers from mercury are I will provide the Honourable Member there to the amateur fisherman who con­ with this information as soon as possible." sumes his own catch of fish and is there any mechanical means by which fishermen can measure the concentration of mercury SuPPLY AND UsE OF MoLASSES in fish? Mr. Aiken, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Primary Industries,- Answers:- ( 1) Has the previous oversupply of ( 1) "Since attention was drawn to over­ molasses become a shortage and are many seas epidemics from mercury poisoning as stock-feeders finding it impossible to obtain a result of fish consumption, Queemland supplies? Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 621

(2) Is molasses and its shortage a suffic­ house repayments. Hospitals boards have iently economic reason for higher cane been advised that the means test should plantings and is molasses a food supplement not be applied in such a manner as to or only an enoouragement in the feeding of preclude submission to the board of any stock? case where, in the opinion of the inter­ (3) What avenues other than stock­ viewing officer, circumstances exist which feeding could make exclusive molasses pro­ warrant a departure from the rules gov­ duction a viable industry and thus encour­ erning eligibility." age further agricultural development in North Queensland? (3) "No."

Answers:- ( 1) "There is currently no shortage of MOTOR VEHICLE ROADWORTHINESS molasses in Queensland. Because of storage CERTIFICATES limitations at some mills, individual mills may occasionally run shmi of molasses Mr. Yewdale, pursuant to notice, asked The between crushing seasons i.e., over the Minister for Development,- period January to June. However, the ( 1) As the system of roadworthiness­ Australian Molasses Pool, of which all certificate stations has been in practice for mills are members, undertakes to maintain some considerable time, how many cer­ adequate supplies at all times to meet the tificates have been issued? overall needs of domestic consumers." (2) As there are many used-car lots (2) "Molasses is a by-product of the manufacture of sugar----on average, only throughout the State which are eligible to one tonne of molasses is made for every issue roadworthiness certificates, is this five tonnes of raw sugar and the value practice operating efficiently and, if not, of molasses is only a fraction of the value is he prepared to review the scheme for of sugar. Production of molasses itself is, the purpose of discontinuing the issue of therefore, not an economic reason for certificates from this source? higher cane plantings." (3) 'There are no currently known Answers:- avenues. including stockfeed, that can make (1) "As at August 31, 1973, 167,809 molasse·s production on its own a viable Certificates of Roadworthiness had been industry. Molasses production is wholly issued." dependent on sugar production." (2) "Yes, I do believe that the practice is operating efficiently and I am sup­ ported in this view by the findings of ELIGIBILITY FOR TREATMENT AT the original committee comprised of rep­ DENTAL CLINICS resentatives of the motor trade, the Mr. Yewdale, pursuant to notice, asked The R.A.C.Q. and Government Departments, Minister for Health,- which initiated this legislation and which ( 1 ) What is the detailed method used reviewed its operation after a period of to assess the eligibility of families to six months. This committee unanimously receive dental treatment in dental clinics agreed that the scheme is effective. There attached to public hospitals? are 1,015 licensed inspection stations and 2,429 approved examiners. The number (2) Assuming that a means test applies of used car dealers licensed included in at all such clinics, is there any provision this figure is minimal when compared for discretion to be applied to any par­ with the overall number of licences ticular family to receive attention, or is issued. Contrary to the apparent view of the means test rigidly adhered to? the Honourable Member that used car (3) Are child endowment payments used dealers so licensed are suspect, it is the in assessing the income of families? experience of the Department that the number of complaints received in regard to such dealers is negligrble, the majority Answer:- of complaints being in relation to inspec­ ( 1 and 2) "The means test in the tion stations other than those so dental clinic service was designed to ensure operated. At the same time, it is apprec­ dental treatment for those least able to iated that there have been instances where afford private dental treatment, namely certain licensed inspection stations and those on pensions, small incomes or with licensed examiners have breached the law large families. The means test for mar­ and to date the number of prosecutions ried persons is based on the guaranteed of inspection stations is 47 and another male minimum wage and for single persons 26 are pending. Compared with the on the male basic wage. Hospitals boards number of certificates issued as mentioned have discretionary powers to determine in answer number ( 1), this surely indi­ eligibility, taking into consideration such cates the ethical manner in which the factors as number of dependents, rent or stations and the examiners are carrying 622 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

out their functions. The original com­ at present. The Queensland Government mittee in its review after six months oper­ has always been willing to co-operate in ation of the scheme made certain recom­ achieving maximum uniformity in company mendations to me which will further law throughout Australia. We remain tighten the laws in relation to the issue of willing to co-operate in this field, but we roadworthiness certificates for second hand will not transfer total power over com­ motor vehicles and which will further pany law to any Federal Government, assist in the removal from the road of least of all the present socialist Govern­ unsafe used cars. I recently issued a Press ment in Canberra." release concerning this matter and intim­ ated that these amendments will be sub­ mitted for the consideration of this House REPORTS, PUBLIC RELATIONS BUREAU during the present Session of Parliament. It is with gratification that I also announce Mr. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked The that the original committee has agreed to Premier,- meet regularly with a view to keeping Further to my Question of September 18 under continuous review the efficacy of regarding reports on the State Public the operation of the legislation and with Relations Bureau and his reply that no a view also to making recommendations reports have been received- to me in regard to any areas of weakness (1) Was a report entitled "Activities which may be brought to its notice as the scheme continues to operate." of the State Public Relations Bureau during 1968-69", by Mr. L. J. McGovern, State Public Relations Officer, presented to the Premier in 1969? If so, will he table the RETENTION BY STATES OF CONTROL report in the House? OVER COMPANIES (2) What other subsequent reports of Mr. Ahem for Mr. W. D. Hewitt, pursuant the activities of the State Public Relations to notice, asked The Minister for Justice,- Bureau have been presented to the Premier since 1969? ( 1) Has he seen a document, issued under the auspices of the Institute of Pub­ Answers:- lic Affairs, outlining the substantial reasons (1) "The 1969 document mentioned by why corporation powers should not be the Honourable Member was compiled at referred to the Commonwealth Govern­ the direction of the Premier and was ment? purely an internal and domestic Depart­ (2) Specifically, has he seen the state­ mental paper. As such it is not for tabling ment that the Standing Committee of here." Attorneys-General should permit the filing (2) "No further such report was of returns in the State of incorporation requested nor was one compiled." and automatic notice to other State regis­ tries where the company is registered with automatic acceptance by other States of PRICES JUSTIFICATION TRIBUNAL the accounts and prospectuses which have been approved by the home registrar? Mr. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Justice,- (3) Has this proposition been considered In view of the unprecedented increase and, if so, with what result? If not, of 20·7 per cent. in food prices in Brisbane will he ensure its early consideration to over the last 12 months and the effect facilitate maximum convenience for cor­ on pensioners and others on fixed incomes porations? which can only be described as "disastrous", will he immediately resuscitate the office ( 4) Will he at the same time assure of the Prices Commissioner and establish the House that he will firmly resist any a Prices Justification Tribunal as positive movement of corporation powers to the measures in combating blatant profiteering Commonwealth Government? and wilful exploitation by many manu­ Answer:- facturers and retailers? (! to 4) "I am aware that the Institute Answer:- of Public Affairs has expressed opposition "If the Honourable Member knew any­ to the proposed National Companies Act, thing about the present state of the Aust­ and I have read the paper referred to by ralian economy he would realise that it the honourable ·member. The Queensland is impossible to separate rises in prices Government does not intend to hand over from the unprecedented inflation being the powers that would be necessary for the experienced in Australia at present. Aus­ Federal Government to take complete con­ tralia's serious inflation problem will not trol of corporate affairs. I hope that private be solved by price control alone as the enterprise will note the contents of the Honourable Member seems to think. It document as at no other time in Aus­ would therefore be futile for this Govern­ tralian history has private enterprise ment or for any other Government to activity been under so much challenge than impose price control while the present Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 623

Federal Government refuses to tackle the MALE AND FEMALE TEACHERS IN total problem of inflation-a problem for STATE ScHooLs which it is largely responsible. As far as Mr. P. Wood, pursuant to notice, asked the introduction of a Prices Justification The Minister for Education,- Tribunal is concerned, then the first body to be called before such a tribunal would (1) How many (a) male and (b) be the present Federal Government. The female teachers are employed in (i) State manner in which it has sought to use high schools, (ii) primary schools, (iii) metrication in the post office to increase special schools and (iv) pre-school centres? postal charges is the most blatant example (2) How many teachers in those categ­ of profiteering that I know of. If the ories possess university degrees and how Honourable Member is genuinely con­ cerned about rising prices, then I suggest many have (a) two-year, (b) three-year and (c) four-year trained status? that he ask his Federal colleagues to use the power they already have to reduce (3) How many in the same categories the alarming rate of inflation in Australia have resigned or given notice of resignation today." and how many have been admitted or re-admitted since January 1? LOW-COST LAND FOR HOUSING; HOLDINGS ( 4) What are the latest statistics con­ BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES cerning student enrolment in each of Mr. P. Wood, pursuant to notice, asked the four categories? The Minister for Lands,- Answers:- With reference to the recent Cabinet decision to provide land at a lower cost (1) "At 1 August 1973 (the school in conjunction with local authorities, will census date), numbers of teachers were:- he advise the details of land held by various local authorities which can be Male Female used under the proposed scheme?

Answer:- Pre-school 59 "The scheme referred to by the Hon­ ourable Member is one which comes within Primary 3,314 4,763 the jurisdiction of my colleague, the Hon­ ourable the Minister for Local Govern­ Special 168 265 ment and Electricity. My Department has no record of lands held by local authorities Secondary 2,885 2,757 which could be used under such a scheme." Total 6,367 7,844

In addition 21 teachers are attending INVESTIGATIONS INTO ESTABLISHMENT courses of preparation for pre-school OF SENIOR HIGH SCHOOLS teaching." Mr. P. 'Wood, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,- (2) "Numbers of teachers in each cat­ egory who have at least one degree are ( 1) What studies are presently being not readily available. This information undertaken in his Department regarding will be provided as soon as it has been senior high schools? collated. Rates of payment for teachers (2) If a review is being made, will he are now based on a combined scale for establish a committee to receive and con­ two and three year trained teachers and sider decisions from the public? a separate scale for four year trained (3) Is it proposed to establish senior teachers. Numbers in these categories at 1 high schools and, if so, what are the August 1973 were:- details? ------~------~------I Combined Four Answers:- two and year ( 1 ) "Preliminary investigations only have three year trained been made by officers of the Education trained scale Department into the establishment of senior scale high schools in Queensland." (2) "If a decision to pursue the proposal Pre-school 59 is made, consideration will be given to inviting comments from people outside the Primary 6,964 180 Education Department." Special 368 25 (3) "No firm decision on the establish­ ment of senior high schools has been made Secondary 3,616 1,315" at this stage." 624 Questions Upon Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Questions Without Notice

( 3) "From the beginning of January QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE 1973 to the end of August 1973 staff losses through resignations and retirement were:­ SHORTAGE OF WAGONS, ROMA STREET pre-school, nil; primary, 912; special, 51; RAILWAY GOODS YARDS secondary, 667. Admissions and re-admis­ Mr. R. JONES: I ask the Minister for sions of staff in the same period were:­ Transport: Is he aware of the critical situa­ pre-school, 40; primary, 771; special, 61; tion applying at the Roma Street railway secondary, 521. Since the end of August goods yards, where today orders placed were a further 60 resignations have been received short by 88 box wagons? If so, does he and 50 teachers have been appointed." consider that the position has deteriorated to the extent that such bad service, with no ( 4) "The processing of school enrol­ checkers and other bottle-necks, is causing ments from 1 August, 1973, is undertaken staff frustrations, involving consignees in by the Bureau of Census and Statistics. country and provincial areas in unnecessary Preliminary results of processing indicate additional costs, and setting a pattern of that the approximate numbers of students criticism which accuses the Government of in each category were:- pre-school, 1,400; a policy designed to drive customers away primary, 216,000; special, 4,100; secondary, from rail? 93,000." Mr. K. W. HOOPER: I am well aware of the congestion at Roma Street, but I think my answer to a question by the honourable EMPLOYEES, MARKETING BOARDS member for Mirani this morning illustrated Mr. Leese, pursuant to notice, asked The quite clearly where the problem lies. The Premier,- department has been inundated with so many industrial strikes that it has been unable to ( 1) Are employees of the various Gov- get wagons to places where they are ernment-sponsored marketing boards required at the time they are required. If classed as Crown employees? it is able to get a clear go, without industrial (2) Do they receive the full entitlements trouble, I am quite sure that the whole matter of a Crown employee? will be resolved satisfactorily for all con­ cerned. (3) If they are not at present receiving recognition as Crown employees, will he OPPOSITION EFFORTS TO END INDUSTRIAL take the necessary steps to have the matter DISPUTE AT PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS rectified? Mr. FRA WLEY: I ask the Minister for Health: Did he see last night's television Answers:- programme, "This Day Tonight", in which (l) "No." the honourable member for Lytton (Mr. Burns) was interviewed? Is he aware that (2) "No." the honourable member was asked if he had done anything to assist in ending the (3) 'This would be an unwarranted strike at Wolston Park and Challinor Centre? interference in the activities and affairs of Is he also aware that the honourable member the various boards, which are bodies said he was leaving the matter in the hands corporate in their own right and not Crown of the honourable member for Ipswich West instrumentalities." (Mrs. Jordan)? Has he received any represent­ ations from either the honourable member for Lytton or the honourable member for Ipswich West regarding this very important matter? STATE HIGH SCHOOL FOR BRACKEN Mr. TOOTH: No, I have not received any R:rDGE-BALD HILLS AREA representations from either of the honourable Mr. Leese, pursuant to notice, asked The members mentioned. Minister for Education,- I take this opportunity of saying that I In view of the tremendous growth rate regret to note that the honourable member of the Bracken Ridge-Bald Hills district, for Lytton has resigned from the position of what consideration, if any, is being given shadow Minister for Health. I have been very happy to have him in that position, as to providing a State high school to meet I also was with his predecessor, the honour­ the present and future needs of the able member for Nudgee (Mr. Melloy). I district? hope that there is no ill health or anything like that involved in the honourable member's Answer:- decision. During his tenure of the office "Action is being taken to acquire 52 of shadow Minister, by what is known to psychiatrists as the process of aversion acres for a combined primary-high school therapy the honourable member has been site in Bracken Ridge South. The Land a great help in enhancing the image of the Administration Commission was requested State Health Department. I am very sorry on September 10 1973 to take the neces­ indeed to lose him from the team. (Govern­ sary action to acquire the land." ment laughter). Questions Without Notice [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Licensed Victuallers', &c., Bill 625

GovERNMENT AssiSTANCE TO PERMANENT Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted BUILDING SOCIETIES for questions has now expired. Mr. NEWTON: I ask the Minister for Works and Housing: Is any finance made available to permanent building societies for LICENSED VICTUALLERS' UCENSES housing construction from the Home Builders' (V A LID A TION OF REMOVALS) BILL Fund, from any other funds covered by the INITIATION IN COMMITTEE State Housing Act, or from any other Gov­ ernment funds? (The Chairman of Committees, lVfr. Lickiss, Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) Mr. HODGES: Yes. We have arranged for finance to be made available through Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for the Housing Commission and the Treasury. Justice) (12.4 p.m.): I move- The allocation is to be made this week, and "That a Bill be introduced vvith respect the various societies will be notified accord­ to the validity, effect and consequences of ingly. certain determinations made. or to be made, by the Licensing Commission with STATEMENT BY UNION OFFICIAL ON respect to the removal of subsisting licensed INDUSTRIAL DISPUTE AT PSYCHIATRIC victuallers' licenses upon applications lodged HOSPITALS with the Commission in that behalf before the nineteenth day of December 1972 Mr. LANE: I ask the Minister for Health: under, or purporting to be under, the pro­ Is he aware of an allegation by Mr. B. visions of the Liquor Act 1912-1970 and Ringelstein, quoted on television and radio, for purposes related therewith." that the only matter upon which negotiations at various discussions on the current strike at By virtue of subsection (1) of section 49A psychiatric hospitals reached agreement was of ~he Liquor Act, application can be made that ''The Minister could not make a to the Licensing Commission for the removal decision."? Is there any basis for this alle­ of a licensed victualler's licence to another gation? s~te. Until 1972 the Commission could remove the licence if it were satisfied- Mr. TOOTH: I am grateful to the honour­ (a) that the situation of the premises able member for raising this matter. I was such that it no longer met the needs saw the telecast referred to, and I also of the public in the district or any heard the radio broadcast. I must say that adjoining district; and I think Mr. Ringelstein's comment is illus­ trative of the sheer dishonesty that presents (b) that the place to which the licence itself as one of the great problems in was to be removed would best meet the situations similar to the one we are currently needs of the public and of the district in. or districts in question. During our three-hour conference with The amendment to section 49A in December representatives of the Trades Hall a week ago 1972 made i·t clear that the removal was to today, Mr. Ringelstein and his colleagues be merely from one neighbourhood to continually returned to a demand that I another and listed a number of considera­ remove from the position of charge nurse at tions to be taken into account. Arthur Pavilion, Challinor Centre, the lady At the time of the enactment of the new who currently occupies that position and that a male be appointed in her place. In the section, there were several pending applica­ context of this demand, I said that this was tions for the removal of licences, many of an area in which I could not-and indeed, which were to have a licence removed from would not-make a decision, because it was one Magistrates Court district to an adjoin­ a professional area in which I was not ing Magistrates Court district, even though competent to do so. And I also said that the sites may have been separated by 50 neither Mr. Ringelstein, although he has had miles or more. In reply to a __guestion raised some experience as a nurse, nor Mr. Daley, by the honourable member for Baroona who was a butcher, had any competence in during the debate, I made a statement, on that area. advice, that would have led people to believe that these licences would have been treated It was on the basis of that statement, accordingly. However, in a recent Full Court within that limited area, that Mr. Ringelstein. judgment, the Full Court gave an interpreta­ in a most deliberate and circumstantial tion of section 49A as regards the removal manner, stated on television last night that of a licence which is contrary to the manner everyone involved in these discussions had in which the Commission had been interpret­ come to one conclusion only, namely, that ing the law, and contrary to the manner in I could not make a decision. I particularly which this Legislature had intended it to be resent his statement, and, as this is one of the interpreted. few occasions on which I have had any intimate contact with industrial discussions, The objects of this Bill are to allow the I must say that, if this is the spirit in which Licensing Commission to determine all they are generally conducted, it is small applications lodged under section 49A of wonder .they are usually so abortive. the Liquor Act prior to 19 December 1972 626 Licensed Victuallers' [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Licenses, &c., Bill on the same basis as previous applications We \\ill look at the Bill closely. We realise had been determined. About 19 applications that it is technical and that its introduction were current at that time. is necessary to clean up the existing anomaly. I commend the motion to the Committee. We do not oppose it, as we support the intention, but we ask that the Minister Honourable Members interjected. definitely state the names of the 19 appli­ cants and have them recorded so that, in The CHAIRMAN: Order! I remind hon­ the future, no other application can be ourable members that when I am s·tating the covered by the provisions of this Bill. question I must not be interrupted. In this instance I refer particularly to the honour­ Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (12.11 able member for Port Curtis. p.m.): I shall not delay the Committee. This is about the 1 ,714th time, while I have been Mr. 'W'RIGHT (Rockhampton) (12.8 p.m.): in this Chamber, that amending legislation The amendment to the Liquor Act on 12 has had to be introduced to make clear December last year was designed to prevent the meaning of original legislation. Many the removal of licences from small or rural people tend to blame the Parliamentary centres to new and growing urban areas, Draftsman, but he, as a lawyer-and that especially when suoh removal would be is a hard thing to say about any man­ detrimental to the consumers of liquor in is not responsible for many of the judgments those rural areas. Under section 49A, given by the Supreme Court. In more cases certain conditions were prescribed. As the than not, the judges of the Supreme Court Minis,ter said, the honourable member for are to blame. Baroona asked whether applications before This proves the versatility of the English the Commission at the time of the legisla·tion language. The Minister tells the Parlia­ would be affected, and the Minister said that they would not be. · mentary Draftsman that he wants a law brought down dealing with a certain matter. I am pleased to have ,the Minister's The draftsman, who would know as much explanation that, according to a Full Court about the law and the construction of the judgment, his interpretation, or the Com­ English language as any man at the bar or mission's interpretation, was incorrect. The on the bench, frames a law in accordance Opposition realises that !:his decision has v ith the Minister's instructions. That law created considerable difficulty for those who sometimes remains in operation and is acted have made applications. I understand one upon, as in the present case, for some time. has been pending since 1970. I do not know why this matter was not dealt with before The CHAIRMAN: Order! I trust that the December 1972, but the Minister may be honourable member will keep to the pro­ able to give the reason. I have been told visions of the Bill. that because of technicalities in certain Mr. AIKENS: I will, Mr. Lickiss, if you licences consideration had to be deferred, give me a chance. and that one was even overlooked. There was the application for a transfer from Hill­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! If the honour­ view to Kenmore, or some such place. able member reflects on the Chair, he will not have the opportunity of making a Mr. R. E. Moore: It was not overlooked contribution. at all. There were objections. Mr. AIKENS: The Committee will be Mr. WRIGHT: I do not think the honour­ much the poorer for that, I can assure you, able member really knows. On other Mr. Lickiss. occasions when he has made interjections, he has been told by Ministers to be quiet; The CHAIRMAN: Order! I can assure I think he should heed their advice. the honourable member that, if he continues to adopt that line, the Chair will be able to I am pleased that these applications are decide that. now to be dealt with, although I hope the proposal will not create a precedent. In Mr. AIKENS: I do not know why, Mr. December last year the Opposition pointed Lickiss, but every time I try to make a out that it was concerned about the interpre­ speech when you are occupying the Chair, tation of the word "neighbourhood". I strike opposition. I am not casting any Although at all stages we asked for a reflection on you-- definition of this term, the Minister could The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable not really give it. I believe this is one member is now reflecting on the Chair. I weakness in the Act which has been brought ask him to withdraw that reflection. He to light, but no-one seems to be able to well knows the matter before the Committee define it. To ensure that this will not become and he also well knows, or should from his a precedent, I suggest that the 19 applications experience, that he is diverging considerably being dealt with should be listed. If that is from the substance of the Bill. The honour­ done, there will always be a check that no able member will withdraw the remark. other application can be included. It would ensure that only these 19 are covered. If the Mr. AIKENS: Very well, Mr. Lickiss, I position were otherwise, we would only be withdraw it. That proves the point I have prostituting the intention of the original Act. been trying to make. I think I know the Licensed Victuallers' [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Licenses, &c., Bill 627

Standing Orders and the laws of debate in The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable this Chamber pretty well. You, for your part, member has strained the patience of the Mr. Lickiss, think you know them pretty Chair to the point where I must ask well. Yet here we are-perhaps two of him to resume his seat. the most eminent and erudite members in the Chamber-disagreeing on what the Mr. AIKENS: I shall be happy to do so, Standing Orders and rules of debate really because I cannot continue speaking, anyway. mean. Mr. HANLON (Baroona) (12.17 p.m.): The CHAIRMAN: Order! I am warning When introducing the Bill the Minister the honourable gentleman for the last time. indicated that it stems from the Full Court's If he does not return to the principles of the interpretation of section 49A of the Liquor motion, I will ask him to resume his seat. Act. He said quite freely that the intention of the Government when amending the Mr. AIKENS: The principles of this Bill, Act in 1972 did not find support in the Mr. Lickiss, are that this Parliament passed Full Court. As the honourable member for an Act, which was in operation for some Rockhampton said, I believe that approach­ time. Some more or less eminent judges ing the matter in the present light is an of the Supreme Court said that the Act did act of honesty by the Government following not mean what Parliament intended it to the finding of the Full Court. Although the mean or what the Parliamentary Draftsman Full Court was, of course, quite entitled framed it to mean, so the Minister for to make such a finding, I agree with much Justice is compelled to waste the time of this of what was said by the honourable mem­ Assembly-not that it will be wasted-in ber for Townsville South. bringing down a Bill to tell the judges of the Supreme Court that the Act did mean Mr. Aikens: Look out! The axe will fall what this Parliament and the Parliamentary on you. The Sword of Damocles is hanging Draftsman intended it to mean. I do not over you. Don't you dare disagree with Mr. think that that is very far away from the Lickiss. principles of the Bill. As a matter of fact, The CHAIRMAN: Order! I think it is right on the ball. Because of the attitude adopted by some Mr. HANLON: The honourable member judges of the Supreme Court to legis­ for Townsville South pointed out quite lation passed by this Parliament, and recently that on one occasion many years in view of their interpretations of various ago, successive amendments to an Act were Acts of this Parliament-and some, including brought down over a period of time by the the one on this Act, have been absolutely Government of the day because a similar astonishing-it is high time this Parliament situation then existed. He commended the took action. I am trying to keep within the Government for taking that action to ensure bounds of your order, Mr. Lickiss. I think that what was intended was put into effect. it is high time that Governments, irrespective I raised this matter when the Liquor of their political complexion, put all pros­ Act Amendment Bill was before the House pective appointees to the Supreme Court and in 1972. That point has already been men­ District Court benches through a searching tioned by the Minister, so I do not wish test to determine their mental fitness to hold to waste time by making further reference such offices. to it. However, I wish to quote what I The CHAIRMAN: Order! as the honour­ said on that occasion to show that there able member purports to know the Standing was nothing hole-in-corner about it, and no Orders of this Parliament, he will realise question about the Minister's intentions at that the subject of the judiciary cannot be the time. In Volume 260 of "Hansard", I am debated except on a substantive motion, and reported at page 2581 as saying- there is no such motion before the Com­ "The second query that I put to the mittee. Will the honourable member please Minister relates to clause 2 of the Bill, return to the provisions of the Bill. which is designed to put a brake on the practice of transferring country-hotel Mr. AIKENS: I once placed on the table licences to the city, and so on. I raised the of the House a substantive motion to deal question of what will happen to existing with the judiciary-you were not here at applications before the commission. As the time, Mr. Lickiss-and I shall place far as I can see, there is no specific pro­ another on the table later if I can get four vision in the Bill for a date from which members to support me. However, I know its provisions will begin to apply, or quite well what would happen to such a when particular clauses in it will be pro­ motion; it would remain on the Business claimed, as distinct from other clauses. I Paper till the end of the session, and then can only assume that it will more or less be wiped off. Because so many things would revolve round assent to the Bill. Therefore, be brought to the surface, no Government, I ask the Minister to indicate clearly, so irrespective of political complexion, is game there will not be any misunderstanding, to allow a debate on such a motion. Let us whether applications that may be before remember that there are on the Supreme the commission under the terms of the Court bench toss-pots, crack-pots and all existing Act will be finalised according sorts of men. to the procedures under which they are 628 Licensed Victuallers' [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Licenses, &c., Bill

initiated, or whether assent will be given the amendment then brought down precipi­ to the Bill and whether, if it is given tated one of the biggest industrial disputes prior to their determination by the com­ that has ever occurred in Queensland. If on mission, section 49A, as amended, will come that occasion the Government had adopted a into effect and the applications will principle similar to that which it has adopted lapse. in this instance-! do not wish to develop "In my opinion, this is a problem that an argument on something that is now history must be recognised. People who have -much, if not all, of the trouble that flowed. applied in the light of the attitude not only industrially but also to the economy indicated by the existing legislation would of the State, could have been avoided. perhaps think they have been given the I agree with the honourable member for opportunity of so doing and that they Rockhampton that the Minister, having been have some right to have their case com­ questioned about the matter in this Cham­ pleted by the commission, which, of course, ber and having given that assurance publicly, is bound by the legislation. On the other is acting in accordance with the integrity of hand, the Government may indicate that, the Government and the Parliament when, assent being given to the Bill, that closes the court having interpreted the situation that chapter and everybody has to begin differently, he takes action to confirm by from taws under the new provisions." amendment of the Act the assurance that he In his reply, which appears on page 2586, gave. the Minister said- I join with the honourable member for "The question of existing applications Rockhampton in suggesting that it might be before the commission was raised by the advisable to give the Committee details of honourable member for Baroona. I assure the 19 applicants concerned. I am not familiar him that, up to and including the time with the matter to the extent that I know of assent. any applications that have been whether the interpretation by the Full Court lodged will be dealt with under the exist­ revolved around the question of the transfer ing Act. Any applications that have been of Lennon's Hotel, which is still before the lodged now and have not been dealt with, courts. and any applications that are lodged prior to assent, will have to be treated as if Mr. Knox: A Privy Council appeal is the Act had not been altered. pending. "Mr. Hanlon: And will be taken right Mr. HANLON: The matter is still before to their conclusion? the courts, and I notice in the Press today that the position might be complicated even "MR. KNOX: I would say so, yes. The further by a petition for winding up relating date of proclamation is in effect the date to one of the companies involved. I ask of assent." the Minister to clarify whether the 19 So it is quite clear that the question was applications that come under the amending raised then and that the point was made that Bill are related .to the question before the existing applications were before the Licensing court at present, or whether they are purely Commission. and simply applications of the type already In my opinion, it is a reasonable principle mentioned. that where people have made applications based on an existing statute, unless there is Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (12.24 p.m.): something in the existing provisions that is I fully support the remarks of my colleagues. downright damaging to the community, those The most important point is that it is imper­ applications should follow their normal ative that full disclosure be made of the course, notwithstanding an amendment of the names of those who are involved in these Act. That is why I asked the Minister at applications. the time what would happen. He gave a clear My memory goes back quite a long way, answer, and I think the Licensing Commission to the time when many snide references were has abided by the terms of that answer. made by members of the Government parties However, in the course of an application for to the political fortunes of the A.L.P. being interpretation of section 49A by the Full financed by the brewery organisations in this Court of Queensland, a different interpretation State. Nothing C()Uld be further from the was given. truth. As a political party, we were told I remind the Committee that I am not that we were at the behest of the beer being inC()nsistent in this matter, because I barons of Queensland. was one of those on this side of the Chamber The Bill under discussion arises from the who, over a decade ago, objected bitterly to 1972 amendments, including that of section the amendment of the Industrial Conciliation 49A of the Act. I quite agree with the 1972 and Arbitration Act introduced by the Gnv­ amendment. One of these days the full story emment of the day which altered the about the inclusion of that section in the bonus clause in that Act when an applica­ Act may be told, and no doubt it will be 'tion was actually before the Industrial Com­ very interesting. I am sure it would bring a mission for an increase in the bonus payment blush to the faces of those who were, are, at Mt. Isa. All honourable members are and will be only too willing to point the aware of the history of that matter and that rapier of scorn and falsehood at the A.L.P. Licensed Victuallers' [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Licenses, &c., Bill 629

The report of the Licensing Commission Newmarket Hotel, Cairns to Pease tabled in the House yesterday indicates that Street, West Cairns-Granted-Work com­ it was proposed to transfer certain hotel menced. Trading under Regulation 38A­ licences, \vhich would have meant that the nearing completion. Samuel Alien & Sons Crown was deprived of certain revenue. Limited (Owner) and Mrs. M. A. L. By virtue of the 1972 amendment, that did Edwards (Licensee). not occur. In the report we see tenders Selwyn Hotel, Cloncurry to Mount Isa of $101,000 for Carina, $144,000 for Mans­ (Tavern)-Granted. Working plans and field and $72,000 for Kippa-Ring. That specification approved 1-12-72. Being revenue will swell the finances of the State erected. Samuel Allen & Sons Limited Government and go a long way towards the (Owner) and R. E. Watson (Licensee). provision of essential facilities. The Crown is always crying that it is hungry; it is Kerry Bridge Hotel, Kerry to Kuraby­ always looking for revenue. Indeed, it is a Granted. Local option poll "Yes" vote-­ >'

applicants. Appeal by Jindalee People to while not being guided by the intention of the Privy Council. Gapern Enterprises Pty. Legislature, should note that the Legislature Ltd. (Owner) and P. W. Petersen had certain intentions, and those whose (Licensee) . responsibility it is should bring any conflict Royal Exchange Hotel, Gympie to of interpretation to the notice of the relevant Alexandra Headlands-Granted. Hearing Minister. In this case the matter was brought of objection adjourned to a date to be to my notice. I do not think I would agree fixed-Not heard until something ,resolved with the honourable member for Townsville in connection with validating Section 49A South that, simply because the Legislature determination. R. F. Nominees Pty. indicates its intention, the judiciary should Limited (Owner) and R. J. Johnston blindly follow that intention if we have (Licensee). not been successful in putting it into the Club Hotel, Esk to Albany Creek­ Statute Book. Refused. Appeal by owner to Full Court Mr. Aikens: They simply play on words. dismissed. Appeal now to High Court of Mr. KNOX: I doubt whether this is so. Australia. Castlemaine Perkins Limited (Owner) and D. M. Gwyther (Licensee). It certainly is not so in this case. Occidental Hotel, Charters Towers to Mr. Wright: It does happen rather fre­ Black River-Granted. Objections lodged quently. but not valid-Working plans and specifica­ Mr. KNOX: Not as often as one would tion to come. Cummins and Campbell think. That might be the thought in the Limited (Owner) and R. C. Olsen minds of many people because the issues (Licensee). involved are usually controversial and of Rosewood Hotel, Rosewood to Eastern great moment, and, consequently, they attract Heights-Granted. Petition for local a deal of attention. But, having regard to option poll lodged, but rejected. Working the great number of cases before the courts, plans and specification to come. Carlton it does not happen very frequently. Indeed, and United Breweries (Queensland) on some occasions when it has happened, Limited (Owner) and P. J. O'Sullivan the Legislature has seen fit not to amend (Licensee). the legislation because the judiciary has Royal Hotel, Harrisville to Amberley­ found an answer to the problem that was Granted. Working plans and specification far more effective than the one the Legisla­ to be lodged soon. J. L. and V. A. Eyles ture had in mind. (Owners) and G. J. Gurney (Licensee). It is not to be assumed that the Legislature Cecil Hotel, Brisbane to The Pavilion­ should immediately rush into amending leg­ Proposed site refused and application islation merely because the judiciary, in its adjourned to a date to be fixed for con­ interpretation of a statute, has discovered sideration of alternative site. Clare Enter­ an apparent flaw in the intention. I think we prises Pty. Ltd. (Owner and Licensee). should treat the judiciary with a great deal of respect. 0TI!ER APPLICATIONS UNDER SECTION 49A Mr. Aikens: A case like that could be a fault in drafting. Lennons Hotel, George Street, Brisbane to Lennons Plaza Hotel, Queen Street, Mr. KNOX: It might well be, but in this Brisbane-Granted. Appeal lodged to Full case it was not. We have to keep in mind Court-Determination given 18-6-73- that the Li~ensing Commission itself is a Appeal dismissed. Appeal now to Privy judicial body and, therefore, its decisions Council. Brisbane City Council (Owner) are subject to oversight by the Supreme and Lennons Hotel Limited (Licensee). Court. Because these matters are of tremen­ dous moment to the people who apply to Mr. KNOX: Honourable members will the Licensing Commission, naturally enough notice that the list shows the name of they will require some exactness in inter­ each licensee, the places where the licence pretation when seeking a benefit under the is being transferred from and to, the date Act. Millions of dollars and the welfare approval was granted and the names of of many people in their employment and the owners and the licensees. The information in opportunities for investment are involved, is fairly complete and I trust that it will as well as other benefits that flow to the be of value to honourable members. community. Conversely, those who are oppos­ As for my interpretation, I think that, as ing them are entitled to use every legitimate a Legislature, we have to respect the role means within their power to make their played by the courts. As members of the points in a court of law. Therefore, far Legislature, it is our responsibility to put from throwing cold water on the judiciary, into plain terms what we believe should be as the honourable member for Townsville in legislation. In this instance the legislation South attempted to do-- had the support of both sides of the House and the Legislature indicated quite clearly Mr. Aikens: Be fair! Not all of them; what was intended. But it is sometimes only the incompetents and the "crackpots". extremely difficult to reconcile intention and Mr. KNOX: I do not propose to pursue effect and it is very important, therefore, that point any further, except to say, in that the judiciary, in interpreting legislation, contrast, that in the matter now before us Licensed Victuallers', &c., Bill [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Appeal Costs Fund Bill 631

think we should appreciate what has been In the interests of those licences that have done by the judiciary in its judgments, been granted-a number of the premises thus enabling the matter to be corrected. involved are now functioning as hotels­ It would be of serious moment if it had it is imperative for the Legislature to support not been brought to our attention by this its previous intention. means at an early stage instead of at a Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. later date. Indeed, it could have led to serious Resolution reported. consequences if this failing in the legislation had been overlooked. The judiciary plays a very important complementary role to the FIRST READING Legislature in instances such as this, and I Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Knox, desire to place that view on record. read a first time. As to the matter raised by the honourable member for Baroona, unless there is a APPEAL COSTS FUND BILL specific date of proclamation, it is to be INITIATION IN CoMMITTEE assumed that the date of assent will be the date of the commencement of the amended (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, Act. In relation to those applications that Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) had not yet been determined by the Licensing Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for Commission, I do not think anybody would have had any doubt. Justice) (12.42 p.m.): I move- "That a Bill be introduced to make pro­ It appears that, because the Licensing Commission is a judicial body and may well vision with respect to liability for the costs be considering matters at a time when the of certain litigation, to establish a fund Legislature is concerned about the Com­ to meet that liability and for purposes mission's jurisdiction and authority, the Com­ connected therewith." mission may have to bring to the notice of Costs in litigation are of great concern to the Minister certain matters that are before litigants and quite often deter a party from it. The Minister, in turn, will have to be embarking upon an action or appealing alert to the fact that, whereas the matter against an adverse decision in the court of on which he is making a decision will not first instance. appear directly to affect applicants before The general rule in civil courts is that costs the Licensing Commission, some consequences follow the event and this is fair and equitable may flow from the authority that the Com­ in most cases. However, the possibility mission has. It does not follow that, merely remains that a litigant may bring an action because we give authority to the Licensing and then have to launch appeals in a suc­ Commission, it will arrive at its decisions cession of courts in order to resolve a single in other than the usual way. The mere issue. Additional costs can be incurred granting of authority to the Licensing Com­ through no fault of the party ult;mately held mission does not automatically mean that responsible for paying them. This can arise it will make another determination. through a mistake of law on the part of the trial judge, his illness during the course of Mr. Aikens: It only has authority to administer the Jaw that we make. the hearing or an abortive trial. The need for relief in such cases has been Mr. Kl\"OX: That is so, but unless we recognised in a number of jurisdictions both are specific in our legislation we are not inside and outside Australia and funds known to assume that the Licensing Commission as Appeal Costs Funds have been set up. will do anything other than what it had The objects of this Bill are to establish ~uch originarly intended to do. In relation to a fund in Queensland. applications before a tribunal such as the It is proposed that the Appeal Costs Fund Licensing Commission, we do not tell it be administered by an Appeal Costs Board that the applications of either "X" or "Y" which shall consist of three persons should be granted. I hope we will not do so appointed by the Minister. One person will be in our legislation. However, by virtue of chairman and the Bar Association of Queens­ the amendments that we make to our legisla­ land and the Queensland Law Society Incor­ tion, we may have to specify what should porated will each nominate a further person be done in relation to particular applications. for appointment. Members of the board shall As to the 19 applications in question, of be entitled to hold office for a term not which some were to be considered and others exceeding three years. had been considered and determined, I do The Bill provides for the fund to be not think we could have foreseen the situation financed by payment of an additional fee that arose. There was an appeal to the upon the issue of- Supreme Court, and the matter is still in (a) any writ, summons or other docu­ the process of appeal to the Privy Council. ment in the Supreme Court; I sincerely hope that there is no further need for amendment, but it may well be (b) any plaint, summons or other docu­ that a decision arrived at by another superior ment in the District Court; or body might cause us to re-examine the (c) any complaint, summons or other legislation. However, I doubt whether that document in the Magistrates Court, contingency will arise. whereby any proceeding is commenced. 632 Appeal Costs Fund Bill [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Appeal Costs Fund Bill

The Treasury Department will be author­ it recommended an appeal costs fund similar ised to invest the moneys of the Appeal Costs to those in New South Wales, Victoria, Fund calculated on the minimum monthly Tasmania and Western Australia. The report balances of the fund at the short-term also pointed out that this action had been deposit bank interest rate as approved for the taken in other parts of the world, including time being by the Reserve Bank. the United Kingdom. The Bill provides for the issue of an Opposition members have repeatedly voiced indemnity certificate by the court, which concern at the huge cost of litigation, and certificate entitles a respondent in the circum­ I accept that Government members, too, stances provided to be paid from the Appeal have been concerned about it. It is obvious Costs Fund. The indemnity certificate granted that the Minister is also concerned because in an earlier appeal in a sequence of appeals he is now taking this legislative action. We shall be vacated in the event of a subsequent have criticised delays and the inability of successful appeal. many people to obtain legal redress because It is proposed that the certificate shall have of the exorbitant costs involved. This Bill no force or effect during the time limited for will not resolve all problems or alleviate appealing, seeking leave to appeal or the all difficulties, but it would seem to solve pendency of appeal. The grant or refusal of some of the problem of appeal costs. the indemnity certificate will be in the dis­ There has always been criticism of the cretion of the court. No appeal will lie cost of initial litigation and there has been against the exercise of this discretion. far more criticism of the cost of appealing against an adverse decision given in the court A party other than the Crown who has of original jurisdiction. Costs have always incurred additional costs by reason of a new been a deterrent to many people, regardless trial had in consequence of an order for of the righteousness of their cause. Additional a new trial, or .the proceedings having been costs can be incurred through a mistake in rendered abortive, will be entitled to such law on the part of the trial judge, his additional costs as he has incurred thereby. illness during the course of the trial, or an A similar provision is made in relation abortive trial, as the Minister mentioned. to a new trial ordered where the verdict of Recently two fellows came to me in Rock­ the jury is contrary to the evidence or the hampton and told me that they were charged quantum of damages is excessive or for taking female crabs at Port Alma Wharf. inadequate. Apparently the magistrate said that, because If the fund is insufficient to meet any pay­ of the time lapse, they were not guilty, ment required, the payment will be made so judgment was entered in their favour. out of Consolidated Revenue, and such pay­ The Crown appealed. I am not sure of ment will be charged against future receipts the exact outcome, but I believe that these of the fund and recouped out of the fund two men stand to pay something like $800 when moneys are available therein. in costs because the appeal was upheld. The Bill provides that when the moneys They would have been far better off to in the fund, excluding moneys calculated in plead guilty and pay the fine of $20 or respect of applications received, exceeds whatever it might have been. I think this $100,000, the surplus will be paid to Con­ demonstrates the ridiculous situation that can solidated Revenue. arise because of delays and the cost of appeals, and the absence of a fund on which I commend the motion to the Committee. litigants can call for assistance. To date, no relief has been available for the innocent Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (12.46 p.m.): victims of delays and mishaps. Our legal system has recognised that even the best qualified and most careful of men The cost of litigation tends to provide can err. Judges are human and we accept an indirect advantage to the wealthy. The that they, like everybody else, make mistakes. ordinary person cannot, for instance, pursue They are not computers that never make litigation against insurance companies; costs mistakes. Justice requires that victims of are so heavy that all he can do is compromise such errors should be given the opportunity and accept an alternative offer. It is also not to have the errors corrected. Appeals can uncommon for the decision of the trial be costly and cumbersome and many people judge to be upheld on appeal, only to be are not game to institute an appeal. Original reversed by a further appeal to a higher litigation is very expensive, and appeals are court. The party who was successful in the even more costly. It is no wonder that many original jurisdiction then has to pay not people refrain from pursuing appeals. only the costs of the trial but the costs of the two appeals. That is certainly unfair, Mr. Tucker: A person can be denied and even a little ridiculous. justice because of lack of funds. The Law Reform Commission has recom­ mended in its report that assistance be made Mr. WRIGHT: That is very true. available not only within the structure of The appeal system is undesirably cumber­ civil courts. I am not quite sure if that some. Because of this, delays are experienced is exactly what the Minister said, because and costs are incurred. This leads to injustice. sometimes in this Chamber, with the move­ Some 13 months ago, the Law Reform ment that goes on and the speed at which Commission brought down a report in which members speak-I know I am one who Appeal Costs Fund Bill [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Appeal Costs Fund Bill 633 speaks very quickly-it is not possible to One such step that has received considerable be absolutely certain of what has been said. commendation is the establishment of the I am not quite sure if the Minister said Small Claims Tribunal. I should like to see that he was accepting the recommendation this line of action pursued further. of the Commission that assistance be made available also in the case of appeals from I shall be looking very carefully at the administrative tribunals. If that is so, I ask legislation, as will all members of my com­ what is to happen in the case of workers' mittee. We support all measures that will compensation, when often the decision of the reduce legal costs. We also think that there tribunal is final. I am not completely in is need for other measures to cut costs agreement with that, and I am sure the generally and reduce the ridiculous delays Minister will be happy to explain whether that take place in the courts today, thus assistance is to apply in this area. making justice available quickly and cheaply. Opposition members realise that there is Mr. JENSEN (Bundaberg) (12.54 p.m.): no necessity for such assistance in criminal I wish to associate myself with the hon­ matters, both trials and appeals, as accused ourable member for Rockhampton in support­ persons have available to them the services ing this legislation. The Opposition will not of the Public Defender. We support the be opposing it. Only yesterday I wrote to Ministe:· in his view that assistance should the Minister for Justice asking if something be available specifically in the civil juris­ could be done to relieve the burden of diction. court costs on one of my constituents. The The main question that I asked myself Minister knows a great deal about this case, was where the necessary finance for this so I shall not go through it in the Chamber assistance was to be found. If these benefits today. I have written a number of letters to are to be provided, they have to be paid him about the appeal. for. The Minister said, I believe, that there would be additional fees on various writs, An extract from the Bundaberg "News­ summonses. and so on. Was the Minister Mail", which I have before me, is headed referring to all levels of courts? "Judge takes himself off appeal case". This friend of mine appealed against the magis­ Mr. Knox: Yes. trate's decision to send his son to gaol for Mr. WRIGHT: Then it seems that the a month for a second offence. That offence legislation is similar to the Victorian Act. had nothing to do with drinking; it was not In Western Australia, there has been an a serious driving offence. The lad rode his increase in filing fees. In New South Wales, motor-bike out of the yard, and the spying there are filing fees for court documents, neighbours across the road rang

The report continues- FIRST READING "His Honour added that he became Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Knox, aware of two persons in civilian clothing read a first time. standing nearby, and he had since found that they were the appellant and, he under­ [Sitting suspended from 1.3 to 2.15 p.m.] stood, his father." As I said, the judge immediately did the JAMES COOK UNIVERSITY OF NORTH correct thing and took himself off the case, QUEENSLAND ACT AMENDMENT BILL and the appeal was later heard in Brisbane and the lad won his appeal. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE At the hearing in Bundaberg, the judge (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, said- Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) " I recommend that the Crown Solicitor, Hon. Sir ALAN FLETCHER (Cunningham in the event of the appeal being unsuccess­ -Minister for Education and Cultural Activi­ ful, examine particularly the question of ties) (2.15 p.m.): I move- costs." "That a Bill be introduced to amend The appeal was successful, so I do not know the James Cook University of North whether the question of costs arises. How­ Queensland Act 1970 in certain particulars." ever, I have written to the Minister for This is the second of three Bills concerning Justice and asked that the Crown Solicitor university Acts that I intend to introduce examine the question of costs. These people during the present sitting. Honourable had to come to Brisbane for the appeal, and members will recall that, in introducing a it is expensive to take time off work and fly Bill to amend the Griffith University Act, to Brisbane for that purpose. If funds were I stated that the amendments to the financial available such as those which the proposed provisions of that Act arose from our looking Bill will make available, probably persons in at proposals for amending the University of such a position could get relief. It was Queensland Act. This is true, also, of this unfortunate that the case to which I have Bill. It is almost a parallel case. referred could not be heard in Bun­ daberg. I think that the lad would have won Furthermore, as in the case of the amend­ his appeal in any event, because the sentence ments to the financial provisions of the was excessive, and I am very pleased that he Griffith University Act, the financial pro­ did win the appeal in Brisbane. In those visions of the amendments to the James circumstances, I think it is only fair to ask Cook University Act have the support of the Crown Solicitor to grant some relief on the Auditor-General. Indeed, they arose out the question of costs. of suggestions emanating from the Auditor­ General. As I said earlier, the Minister is well acquainted with the case, so I shall not delay Mr. P. Wood: I suggest he virtually told the Committee. No doubt similar cases have you to do it. arisen in which people did not have sufficient money to proceed with an appeal or to Sir ALAN FLETCHER: You can put it obtain the correct advice on an appeal. In that way if you like. Suggestions come from this instance, I obtained the correct advice the Auditor-General and they are generally and the father of the lad was able to borrow of common-sense proportions. the money and go ahead and win the appeal. Mr. P. Wood: Two years ago. Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for Mr. B. Wood interjected. Justice) (12.59 p.m.), in reply: I will quickly Sir ALAN FLETCHER: You do not know answer the points raised. Firstly, I will have when the suggestions came. It may have been examined the matters raised by the honourable only the week before. member for Bundaberg, on which he has already made representations. Mr. P. Wood interjected. The answer to the point made by the Sir ALAN FLETCHER: We have been honourable member for Rockhampton relative looking at them ever since. to civil tribunals is "Yes". Although many ?f . th~s~ trib_unals do not come within my The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the honour­ ]tmsdJctiOn, 1f an appeal does lie-appeals able gentleman to please address the Chair. are usually on questions of law-and it conforms to the Act, the appellant will have Sir ALAN FLETCHER: I do apologise, access to the fund. The increase in fees Mr. Lickiss. The inane interjections-- that is expected will be quite small-some­ Mr. P. Wood: That is not inane. thing less than 1 Oc-and I do not think it will be long before we obtain the $100 000 Sir ALAN FLETCHER: The quite intel­ that is needed. ' ligent interjections took my attention. Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. Generally, any remarks I might make in introducing the financial provisions of the Resolution reported. Bill could only be in reiteration of those James Cook University, &c., [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 635

made when introducing the Bill to amend Mr. P. WOOD: Well, there is in the the Griffith University Act. The intentions Auditor-General's Report that the honour­ of the Bill in respect of investment of funds able member and I have examined. I am and delegation of authority parallel those replying to the honourable member for already referred to in association with the Ban·on River who, in conjunction with me, Griffith University Act. has given this matter a great deal of study. The only additional amendments proposed Significant amounts are coming to the in the Bill now before the Committee are University of Queensland. Smaller amounts those concerned with tidying up obsolete -$170,000 or $180,000-are coming through designations, and with the uniformity of in the way of bequests and donations to expression, description and definition, to make the James Cook University and, in time, these common to each of the three university there will be endowments to the Griffith Acts. As I said earlier, it is proposed to University. In fact I think there are some take the opportunity, while Bills relating to now. each of the three universities are being debated, to create a uniformity of drafting Mr. Hanson: A lot of firms making big which also takes cognisance of modern idiom money in Queensland have endowed other and present-day thinking. The purpose universities. inherent in proposing the amendments now before the Committee embraces just this Mr. P. WOOD: I hope to see them intention. endowing Queensland universities. Some faculties at the university have, in fact, been I commend the motion to the Committee. embarrassed by endowments. They have been designated for a specific purpose, but have Mr. P. WOOD (Toowoomba South) (2.19 been insufficient to be utilised in exactly p.m.): The provisions of this Bill are very the way in which the people making the similar to those of the Griffith University donations have specified. I have heard that, Act Amendment Bill-at least in part-which on occasions, medical faculty donations for was introduced earlier. I do not think it a specific purpose were not large enough to is entirely inane to comment on the fact allow the faculty to do exactly what was that the amending legislation arises out required, and it has had to spend substantial of the recommendations of the Auditor­ sums from its own resources to meet the General in his report for the year 1970-71. terms of the bequest. This puts faculties in On that occasion the Auditor-General said- an embarrassing situation. '"No specific provision is made in 'The University of Queensland Act of 1965' to On the other hand, some university fac­ authorise the course of action and amend­ ulties have done very well out of private ing legislation is to be sought by the endowments, particularly those involved in Senate." the mining industry. But I want to make the point that we should encourage private The Minister said that it was as a result endowment of universities. of the recommendations of the Auditor­ We are now faced with the situation where General that the Griffith University Act and the Australian Government is committed the James Cook University of North Queens­ to greatly increased financial support . ~or land Act are to be amended. As the Auditor­ universities and to payment of all tmtwn General has said that no specific provision fees at universities. This includes such things is made in the legislation, it might not be as tertiary and post-secondary student allow­ an unkind exaggeration to say that the more ances. I believe this is desirable, but we unhappy critics of the university might suggest should bear in mind that universities should that the university has been acting illegally. not necessarily be supported only by Govern­ ment action. They should also be supported Certainly, if the provision is there to by private endowment. tighten up these requirements we would have no objection. However, I would add one or The purpose of these amendments, as I two reservations about this legislation. There see it, is that, although the specific purposes have been occasions when the university of bequests are quite valid, the university has needed greater flexibility in assigning the may vary the terms of the bequests. The situa­ income derived from funds given for a tion may also arise where the bequests make specific purpose, but great care needs to be more money available in a particular fund taken in such actions. I should hope that than is necessary to implement the terms of all Queensland universities would be able the bequest. The university may need flexi­ to do a lot more than they have done to bility in investing the funds over and above encourage private endowment. There is too those necessary to carry out the terms of little private support for our universities. We the bequest. But we should be careful that only have to compare them with those in we do not say, imply or give the impression North America to see the great difference. to people making donations to a university for specific purposes that the funds may be Mr. B. Wood: I do not think there is any used in a way other than they intended. I university in Queensland that has actually do not think this is an appropriate canvassed for these bequests, is there? way to encourage private endowment. 636 James Cook University, &c., [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill

The point I am making is that, while Usually, a high-school or university grad­ support the amendment, care has to be uate can expect to obtain employment in exercised in its application. We must ensure one of the professions. If, however, after that people who wish to make endowments to graduating he finds that he is fitted only for universities for specific purposes are not pick-and-shovel work he may believe, as the led to the belief that the amendments American student believed, that he is entitled under discussion will allow universities to to sue his school. I was saying that the use the money given to them in a way education system that exists in Queensland other than that intended by the donors. I cannot detect children who require remedial hope that, in applying these amendments, teaching. I also said that a teacher who the James Cook University will exercise a cannot detect specific learning difficulties in great deal of care and discretion. a child is not worth his salt. Mr. JENSEN (Bundaberg) (2.26 p.m.): As The CHAIRMAN: Order! I do not think I understand this measure, it is to allow I am confused about the motion, which is to bequests to the James Cook University to introduce a Bill to amend the James Cook be used for other purposes than those speci­ University of North Queensland Act in certain fically stated. However, the "other purposes" particulars. Will the honourable member are not clearly defined. please either return to the motion or, alterna­ tively, resume his seat. A report appeared in last Tuesday's "Tele­ graph" to the effect that an American youth Mr. JENSEN: I was hoping that the had sued the high school he attended for amendments concerning bequests might cover $1,000,000 because he was unable to read this event. If they do not, the Minister may and could not get what he considered to be have to introduce another amendment in a reasonably good job. It is possible that legislation pertaining to the James Cook something similar could occur in Queensland. University and the universities in Brisbane. In case the Minister has not seen the news All honourable members are aware of the item I mentioned, I am warning him so that fact that many students, including some at he will view this matter in its proper per­ secondary school, are unable to read or spell. spective. I should not like bequests made As I said at a recent meeting of SPELD, a for a specific purpose to be used in settle­ teacher who cannot detect such learning ment of compensation cases simply because difficulties in the first couple of years of our education system does not teach children primary education should not be a teacher; elementary things like reading and writing. he is in the wrong profession. A child who has specific learning difficulties and com­ This morning the Minister answered a pletes his primary education without having question by me concerning remedial teachers, received additional coaching presents a pro­ who are required in every part of the State blem to the community. to remedy defects in our education system. I know that the Minister intends to spend The CHAIRMAN: Order! I trust that the millions of dollars on pre-school education. honourable member is aware of the subject matter under discussion. I cannot relate his The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable member's statements are completely unrelated comments to anything remotely associated to the matter before the Committee, and I with the motion. ask him to resume his seat. Mr. JENSEN: I am sorry that you cannot Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (2.31 p.m.): The understand what I am saying, Mr. Lickiss. proposed Bill relates to a rearrangement of I think most honourable members can. For the funding of the James Cook University of your benefit, I will repeat what I was saying. North Queensland. The people of North Queensland are very proud of the way this The CHAIRMAN: Order! I do not mind university has developed. It is becoming a some frivolity during debate, but the hon­ very worth-while institution, and industry ourable member is going beyond the normal leaders realise that its graduates attain an limits. Will he please either return to the excellent standard. I am sure that, in the motion or resume his seat. future, it will hold its place well and truly among the great universities of Australia. Mr. JENSEN: The Bill is designed to allow bequests to the James Cook University Mr. F. P. Moore: And the world. to be used for other purposes. What I am suggesting is that the Minister may find it Mr. CASEY: As the honourable member for Mourilyan has said, it may hold its place necessary to use such bequests for the pur­ well and truly among universities of the pose of meeting damages claims, such as the one that has been lodged in America by an world. J 8-year-old San Francisco youth who claimed The site of the university is excellent and that he graduated from high school without the arrangement of its buildings and the pro­ sufficient skill in reading to enable him to grammes it undertakes certainly ensure a fine get a decent job. As I have said, because education for ·the students. Queensland is simply following the American As the James Cook University became system of education, a similar situation could more popular a severe accommodation prob­ arise here. lem arose, particularly last year. No doubt it James Cook University, &c., [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 637 will be aggravated this year in the light of extensively in the Press, over the radio and the stated intention of the Commonwealth on television in Townsville in a desperate Government to take over the cost of running effort to find Townsville people who were universities in Queensland. Townsville is not prepared to accommodate young girls or boys a very big city compared with most other from other places in Queensland so that cities in Australia which have universities. they could undertake university studies. For example, the Griffith and Queensland It is not much use having this institution Universities are established in a major centre of higher learning and giving students an of population. Because Townsville is not opportunity to attend it if there is nowhere ~elatively a large city, and because there for them to live. After all, they cannot be Is not a large population in the surrounding expected to camp under trees or live in district, a large proportion of the students bark humpies. It would be a re:trogr~de attending the James Cook University come step if that happened. Gr~ater c.onstderatwn from places other than the city of Townsville. should be given to financmg thts aspect. of In funding the university, greater considera­ the running of the James Cook Umversity. tion must be given by the Government to assisting the various university colleges so Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG (Tmvnsville) (2.38 that they can provide increased accommoda­ p.m.): It gives me great pleasu;e. to .speak tion for students. to this Bill. The James Cook Lmversity of I brought this matter to the Minister's North Queensland is in my electorate and I attention earlier this year, and I know that should like to briefly summarise its early he had it investigated. Even up to the day history. It was originally known as the that university lectures were to commence, University College of Townsville, and was several hundred students were still trying to really the brainchild of sev':r:;tl men . who get accommodation in Townsville. They gave consideration to the provtsJOn of higher came from many areas of the State-not only ~ducation in an area where population was North Queensland-because the James Cook gradually but surely increa~ing. The. popu­ University is renowned throughout Australia lation in North Queensland IS approximately ~s an institute of learning. At that time, 250,000. m answer to my question the Minister said These men decided that it was about he did not believe it was' the Government's time a major centre of learning was es!ab­ responsibility to provide accommodation for lished in the area. No doubt they were thmk­ s~udents who were seeking university educa­ ing of the universities .in Europ;:, sl!ch as tiOn. Up to a point I disagree as I said those in Padua and Mtlan, wh1cn did not earlier, particularly because of the locale of themselves have a great intrinsic population Townsville. but had the required population in the Then, as now, the Government is prepared surrounding cities, areas and counties upon to provide accommodation for public servants which they could draw to fill their quotas who are transferred to the more remote of students. areas of the State. The number of houses Three names which spring to my mind are provided for public servants in cities such as Mr. Tom Priestley, Mr. George Roberts, the Mackay, Townsville, Cairns, Mt. Isa and then deputy mayor of Townsvi!le, who did Rockhampton, as well as country areas, is a aood deal of planning in this matter and greater than that provided in Brisbane which artanged that the council set aside some I suppose would be nil. There is no ;equire­ 650 acres of land for the college, and a ment for them to be provided here because medical practitioner named Dr. Rundle generally, after completing their service i~ Palmerston. State Cabinet, in 1959, declared cou.ntry areas, public servants return to that it would finance the University College then· own homes in Brisbane. of Townsville and, in May 1960, the late Honourable J. C. A. Pizzey laid the found­ In exactly the same way, the Government ation stone. It was not till 20 April 1970 that should accept the responsibility of either Her Majesty the Queen proclaimed it as a accom~~datmg students in North Queensland, university with full autonomy. or

What \:vas originally a dream has become The establishment of a medical school has a reality, which is now a financial burden been explored in depth, and it is quite feasible on the State or foundation that has to finance that one can be set up in Townsville. it. I was rather interested to hear the hon­ ourable member for Toowoomba South sug­ Mr. R. E. Moore: It should be, too. gest that some of the finance needed might Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: It should be. This be obtained from private enterprise and would also provide for considerable improve­ private foundations. I often wonder if ment in the teaching of tropical medicine. private people and foundations have anything The first school of tropical medicine in left nO\\ a days after they have paid probate Australia was in Tmmsville, and the original duties aml various taxes. It seems to me building still stands. It could again be a that the days have gone when universities and place in which tropical medicine is taught. university colleges could look to private enter­ prise for financial support. The financing of such a project must depend not upon private enterprise-it is too Mr. Wright: Did you say "probate"? expensive-but upon Governments, and I am sure that the present Government of Queens­ Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: Yes, probate. I land will back the moves by the university wonder if the honourable member for Rock­ committee and further plans for the establish­ hampton realises that the universities of ment of a university medical school in Sydney and Melbourne have been endowed Townsville. The faculty of medicine has many with many millions of dollars by private ramifications. Unless the university has com­ people. plete control of its own finances, these cannot be expanded or improved and addi­ Mr. Wright: You were not talking of tional research cannot be carried out. It private people. should not have to go and ask various Governments and foundations for finance. Dr. SCOTI-YOUNG: I was. The Univer­ I understand that the proposed Bill will sity of Queensland has been similarly give the James Cook University of North Queensland the right to manage its own endowed. Consider, for instance, what the finances. If a medical school can be estab­ !oot~ Foundation has done for the university lished at this university, much will have been m Bnsbane. This Bill means that universities done for the future of Queensland. could be given greater autonomy in the handling of their own finances. They should Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (2.46 p.m.): be able to balance their budgets and carry After listening to the honourable member out their financial affairs without outside for Townsville, one could well think that, direction. before speaking, he had gone back through some of the speeches made by the honourable The operating budget of the James Cook member for Townsville West, because it is University in 1972 was approximately obvious that he has taken up many of the $3,500,000, which is big money in any man's excellent points made in this Chamber by language. Once an organisation reaches the that honourable member. ~tage of having a budget of that magnitude, If the proposed Bill entails what the 1t should be able to control it and use it honourable member for Townsville says it as it wishes. The administrators of the does, surely there will be expenditure every­ university are men of education and purpose where. If that is so, and in view of what and they have obviously done a good job has been said already, no doubt I will not with the university to date. be criticised for expanding the debate. One reason for my pleasure in seeing the The CHAIRMAN: Order! I hope that is Bill introduced is that it will allow more not a reflection on the Chair. freedom in the creation of other faculties. ~ F~culty of Med_icine is one such faculty Mr. WRIGHT: It was not intended to tnat 1s uppermost m my mind. There is a be a reflection on the Chair in any way, ¥reat shortage of doctors in Queensland, and Mr. Lickiss. I was merely pointing out that, m the medical profession in this State there because of the way in which the debate is a ?reat reluctance to go to country areas, was expanded by the honourable member for especmlly North Queensland. A consider­ Townsville, one could deal with other points able amount of thought and research has on which expenditure certainly is required. gone into the establishment of a university The attempt by the honourable member medical school at Townsville. Mr. Roberts for Townsville South and others to propagate with great foresight, actually set aside a~ throughout the community in this State an area on the campus for the establishment of anti-university policy or programme concerns a university hospital. Recently Professor me greatly. One hears persistent and very Karmel and his committee went into this vicious attacks made in this Chamber on matter in Townsville, and they consider that employees, lecturers, tutors, and so on, at a medical school can be established in the universities. I should like to place on record grounds of the Townsville General Hospital. that I think it is a great pity that, when about lt must, hov.ever, have some connection with 20,000 people are studying at tertiary level the university Faculty of Medicine, as medical in this State, a few people should be attacked degrees conferred must be university degrees. and a smear placed on all students, of which, James Cook University, &c., [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 639 as most people know, I am one. It is rather they find that these people cannot assist them frustrating for those who carry out a very because they, too, are overburdened. And fine function at the universities to have to so there is continual conflict. There is a stand for nonsense of that kind. real need to overcome the problems in this Let me now move back to the amendment field. I do not know whether or not the proposed in the Bill. It seems that it will assignment of certain moneys will help. now be possible to assign elsewhere incomes What I say is that consideration needs tn be arising from various funds that have been given to this matter. donated to the university. If that is correct We know that the State Government gives I am very pleased, because sometimes such a tremendous amount of money to uni­ restrictions are quite unnecessary. I should versities. Admittedly this role will eventually hope that the question of which is the be taken over by the Commonwealth Govern­ most important area of need at universities ment. With the concept of open universities at the moment would be looked at. in Australia, I foresee that in the very near Those who have had contact with a future the Commonwealth will be paying for university, especially those who have had a large part of the external studies pro­ contact with a university outside the Brisbane gramme as we see it today. Money is region, would agree with me, I think, that urgently needed for staff and facilities. To one of the most important areas probably my mind, this is an important part of is that of external studies. It has been tertiary education. Thousands of people advocated in certain quarters that the J ames improve their knowledge by enrolling in Cook University should establish its own external studies. The courses are difficult department of external studies. Under the and the failure rate is fairly high, and the amendment now proposed, moneys could be position will be improved only if more money made available for such a venture, and I is made available. I cannot over-emphasise can understand some people wanting this to the important part played in the field of be done. I am aware of the frustration tertiary education by e:x:ternal studies, nor that people who live in the North have can I over-emphasise the need to have this experienced because of the inadequacies of level available for public servants and external studies. They have been faced with teachers-indeed, for all types of people­ limitations on subject areas, and I think that so that they can improve their education. all honourable members are aware of that. There is no need for duplication of the A comparison of the subjects that are avail­ present External Studies Department, or able for internal studies, evening studies and school, as I believe it is being advocated that external studies shows that the latter leave it should be called. But we need to expand much to be desired. In the area of govern­ the existing facilities. We need to upgrade ment, for example, external students are allowed a choice of about five subjects as them, but this can be done only if more against a choice of about 40 for internal funds are made available. students. It is no wonder that honourable For years external studies have been members from the Far North are saying, looked upon as the lesser field, which is very "Let us do something about it." unfortunate. I have even had people say to The centres that have been established are me, "If you have a degree from external also inadequate. I praise those councils that studies it is not as good as one obtained have established university centres, particularly internally." Fortunately, that idea has now the Rockhampton City Council and its mayor, gone by the board. I notice in reports by the Mr. Rex Pilbeam, for establishing a university Vice-Chancellor's committee on the future centre in Rockhampton. I am also aware of external studies, and also in recom­ of the very fine work that has been done mendations by interested parties, that a new in Mackay and other centres. However, what attitude has been adopted. is available is still inadequate for the needs The importance of external studies is of external students. Students become recognised. Recognition is given to the tre­ concerned because of the inadequacies of mendous work done in education in Queens­ libraries. If the necessary books are not land, New Guinea and, indeed, in other available, they find it difficult to carry out parts of Australia by the Queensland Uni­ their assignments. Surely this position will be versity External Studies Department. External made worse when the semester system is studies are now put on the same level as introduced. internal studies. However, they will maintain Let me make it clear that I do not take that level only if adequate funds are made away any praise from the excellent work that available. I do not know if the reassign­ is being done by the Acting Director of ment of funds from the James Cook Uni­ External Studies, Dr. Laverty, and his tutors versity of North Queensland can assist in and lecturers. They certainly work under this direction. As students in that area, duress. I am on the university council, and particularly in the outlying parts, benefit I have had many discussions with them. It from external studies, maybe this would be is difficult for these people to continue their an ideal purpose. work, because when they apply for 16 I will raise just one point that the members to be appointed to the staff they Minister might answer in his reply. I refer are offered only two or three. When they to the danger of the possibility of funds try to get assistance from internal lecturers being used in a way that contravenes the 640 James Cook University, &c., [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill

original intention of the donor. I am aware In my home town, I believe the newly of a number of people who, following the established consortium has rendered assistance loss of sons who had been university students, to students desirous of entering the James gave sums of money to be placed in certain Cook University and certain other tertiary trust funds. I am wondering if in fact the institutions. When I am in conference with intention of those donors could now be the company from time to time in the future, contravened. one of the points I will be plugging will be an increase in this assistance so that the Finally, I ask that consideration be given, universities, short of money as they are, will if not by the James Cook University of be able to give young Queenslanders an North Queensland then by this Government, opportunity to benefit from higher education. to making more money available for external studies throughout the State, because it Is Last year, or the year before, when speak­ the State that benefits in the long run. ing in the Budget debate, I deplored the fact that at the Queensland University the trend Mr HANSON (Port Curtis) (2.55 p.m.): was towards a considerable decrease in the The James Cook University of North Queens­ percentage of students who are allowed to land is a very young tertiary institution matriculate. In the last six or seven years which, no doubt, is playing a significant part it has dropped from something like 70 per in the development of North Queensland. cent to about 31 per cent. This is a matter Like previous speakers, I think it is a matter for regret because, if universities are going for very sincere regret that there is amongst to orientate themselves to propping up the supposedly responsible people a grave anti­ graduate as opposed to the undergraduate, university feeling. It is a matter for regret they are certainly not going to share in many that this causes some members of the public of the bequests that may be available. to lose confidence in the desirability of When I first mentioned this matter, it did assisting the James Cook University finan­ not receive any publicity in the Press-and cially, so that it can play its part in the that did not concern me greatly-but six great development that will no doubt occur in the North in the years ahead. months later it was the basis of an editorial in "The Courier-Mail". It will be a matter By way of interjection in the speech of for regret if, for some reason, students are the honourable member for Toowoomba not able to complete their chosen courses South, I commented that in years gone by at either the Queensland University or the a considerable number of people who amassed James Cook University. large fortunes in this State saw fit, unfort­ unately, to endow various faculties in southern The honourable member for Townsville universities. Their munificence has been has referred to ·the possible establishment of recognised at times by the Crown and they a medical school at the James Cook Uni­ have been acclaimed as great public bene­ versity. As Queensland is faced with a factors. The James Cook University is a shortage of medical practitioners, I am sure relatively new institution. The Queensland that all honourable members would be pleased University was opened in 1911, and it, too, by the setting up of a medical schooL is young compared with tertiary institutions As an aside, I remind the Committee that, in southern States. I believe that many of despite the criticisms that have been levelled the people I have mentioned had an obliga­ on occasions at previous Queensland Labor tion to assist the struggling young Queensland Governments, during the depression of the University, both before and after its establish­ 1930's, as well as in the years in which the ment. State was slowly creeping out of it, a Labor I hope that many of those now engaged Government was responsible for the estab­ in industrial enterprises throughout the State, lishment of the university at St. Lucia, the which, owing to world demand, have gained medical school at Herston-which has not considerable momentum in the last 20 years, been expanded to any great exctent since its will make greater efforts to assist young establishment-and the University Dental Queenslanders in the various faculties and College in Turbot Street. Previous Labor courses they desire to follow. I know that Governments in this State clearly demon­ Mount Isa Mines in recent years, and for strated that they were aware of ·their respon­ many years past, has donated considerable sibility to ensure that tertiary education was sums of money for scholarships. Mount not neglected. Morgan Limited, in my own electorate, has I have said that many firms have an been rather generous to its employees. Any obligation to provide funds to the new and youngster in the town who desires to attend struggling James Cook University. The com­ the medical faculty of the university, for panies that are exploiting the natural instance, has his fees paid for a number of resources of the North, such as those that years, whether his father is the general engage in bauxite mining at Weipa and the manager of the company or the most humble extraction of nickel ore at Greenvale, will labourer. Unfortunately, not too many of share in the future profitability of the State. them have taken advantage of the oppor­ Therefore they have the obligation to assist tunity, a!Ll1ough there has been an increase the young people of the State. Agreements in takers in recent years. that are entered into by the Government lames Cook University, &c., [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 641 with industrial enterprises should ensure that most suggestions were made in perfectly they accept their responsibility to assist good faith, although sometimes they were tertiary institutions. a little hard to connect with the matter under As I have said, I sincerely regret that an disc11ssion. I am sure that no-one, least of anti-university feeling pervades some sections all the honourable member for Toowoomba of this Parliament. The Vice-Chancellor of South, was really worried about the illeg­ the James Cook University has been a friend ality of what we have been doing. I do of mine for a number of years, and I have not blame him for saying that it seemed always found him to be both an agreeable to take us a long time to get around to and a dedicated man. At St. Lucia, many doing this. However, we have managed quite of the deans and lecturers of the faculties, as well. If, as he hopes, this will encourage well as the Registrar, the Assistant Registrar bequests, I am certainly in his corner. We (Bruce Green), who has been a friend of certainly need them, and the university is mine for years, and the Warden of Inter­ well deserving. national House (Dr. Thiele), are very dedi­ Mr. R. E. Moore: How could he tie that cated in the assistance that they provide to in with his socialist policy? university students. It is a matter for regret that many of Sir ALAN FLETCHER: He did not really the companies that are well established in mean to tie this in with his socialist policy. Queensland do not resort to the universities I think this was an additional consideration of the State for assistance and advice. They that was meant to be helpful. religiously go to overseas consultants and I was extremely encouraged by the remarks experts and do not make use of the resources of the honourable member for Port Curtis, available to them in this country. Many who supported the remarks of the honourable of our university personnel could provide member for Toowoomba South, and, by guide-lines for the various disciplines in indus­ way of interjection, referred to bequests made try. Industry leaders should realise that there by wealthy Queenslanders to other than are highly qualified men in our tertiary Queensland universities. I share his regret institutions who can give them advice equal that this should be so. I thank the honour­ to, and probably better than, that given by able member for Port Curtis in advance for overseas consultants. his implied promise that his own bequests will stay in Queensland. I am a layman and these submissions are based on my observations, but I am con­ Mr. Hanson: It would not be the first vinced that what I say is right. If I am wrong, gift I had made, either. I sincerely apologise to the engineering industry and others which may use the Sir ALAN FLETCHER: That is all to advice of people in our institutions of learn­ the honourable member's credit. I admire ing. If I have hit the nail on the head, it him for this, and I look forward to seeing is about time they took note of my advice, something really impressive from him in consulted our own qualified men, and this regard. shouldered their responsibility to assist our tertiary institutions. By consulting these There is need for some flexibility in deal­ experts, they would not only assist the ing with bequests. The honourable member institutions financially, but would also give was quite right in saying that it is sometimes everyone a proprietary sense of ownership difficult, after the effiuxion of time, for of the university to which all of us contribute certain bequests to expand sufficiently to do by way of direct and indirect taxation. what the donor hoped for. There would be no support from me for any suggestion that As a "Gladstonian", I am very pleased there was, in this measure, any power to that the local Council employed Professor vary the use intended by the donor. This Percy Harris of the James Cook University would be quite outside my intention and, I on a consultative basis. He pursued his am sure, that of anyone connected with charter with vigour and zest. I hope that the these autonomous institutions. guide-lines laid down by him will be bene­ ficial to the Gladstone community in years I thank the honourable member for to come. Bundaberg for his concern. I can assure him that there is no danger of our having to use As the Opposition shadow Minister for Education pointed out, this measure is bequests to settle damages suits instituted by similar to the Bill amending the Griffith people who are unable to read or write. University Act, which we debated earlier. I I approve of the honourable member for wish it every success and hope that the Mackay giving some recognition that this is Minister pays due cognisance to the many a good university. I appreciated his com­ fine submissions that have been made. ments on the need for accommodation for students living away from home. It would be Hon. Sir ALAN FLETCHER (Cunning­ incredible if a countryman like me did not ham-Minister for Education and Cultural realise that his remarks had a great deal of Activities) (3.8 p.m.), in reply: I thank relevance in the situation existing in North honourable members who have spoken for Queensland. their helpful, friendly and considerate sug­ gestions. No member was critical. Indeed, Mr. Tucker interjected. 21 642 James Cook Uni., &c., Bill [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] City of Brisbane, &c., Bill

Sir ALAN FLETCHER: They have done I may say that I have always considered a magnificently. But even in Brisbane, where degree taken externally as a little better than the churches and other bodies have assisted one taken internally. very considerably, university authorities have expressed great concern down through the Mr. Wright: I agree wholeheartedly. years about the shortage of student accom­ Sir ALAN FLETCHER: It involves a great modation. Even in Brisbane we do not have deal more of keeping the nose to the grind­ sufficient accommodation, although there was stone. If the honourable member obtains his a certain amount of scurrying around by the degree, I shall be the first to dip my lid to people concerned to find accommodation for him. boys and girls coming here for a university education. Mr. Wright: In seven weeks. Mr. Davis: In other words, you are not Sir ALAN FLETCHER: Good luck to him going to get involved yourself? -and a kindly examiner! Since the honourable member expressed Sir ALAN FLETCHER: That is about the some concern in this matter, I will also say general standard of the honourable member's that, so far as I understand it, there will be interjections. no chance of any twisting so that the original The honourable member for Townsville intention of donors is contravened. I do is the proud member of Parliament in whose not think that is likely to happen. electorate this university is situated. Naturally I think I have already replied to the hon­ he takes pride in being associated with it ourable member for Port Curtis. Again, I personally. I share his admiration for the thank him in advance for his intended efforts of those men who laboured in this beneficence. vineyard in the early days. I can remember the efforts of Mr. Priestley and Mr. Roberts, I commend the Bill to the Committee. who really had vision. They were not greatly Motion (Sir Alan Fletcher) agreed to. encouraged by some of their fellow citizens, Resolution reported. who did not believe that this vision would ever appear. However, those men laboured FIRST READING with the result that Townsville now has a university that is the envy of the Southern Bill presented and, on motion of Sir Alan Hemisphere. It is a very fine place. Fletcher, read a first time. Naturally, as he is a doctor of medicine, the honourable member for Townsville hoped CITY OF BRISBANE ACT AMENDMENT that the university would have a faculty of BILL medicine. Who could blame him? After all, INITIATION lN COMMITTEE educating home-grown doctors in a situation where tropical medicine could be expanded (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, with great advantage to everybody is some­ Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) thing with which we all agree. Hon. H. A. McKECHNIE (Carnarvon­ The honourable member for Rockhampton Minister for Local Government and Elect­ is worried that there is in our midst an anti­ ricity) (3.19 p.m.): I move- university feeling. We should comfort our­ "That a Bill be introduced to amend the selves with the thought that this feeling is City of Brisbane Act 1924-1972 in certain engendered by a few university "bodgies". particulars." I do not suppose it is any worse than having an anti-parliamentarian feeling. There is, The purpose of this Bill is to clarify and around the ridges, a sort of deprecatory extend the provisions of the City of Brisbane attitude towards parliamentarians, and some Act in so far as they relate to the rights of us may well fall by the way. I do not of appeal by employees of the Brisbane City feel ashamed of being a parliamentarian, Council. All honourable members are aware nor do I think that we deserve such of the circumstances surrounding the decision criticism. But that is how it is. of the Government to introduce this legisla­ tion, and I need not recapitulate them. Mr. Davis: I notice that particularly in It may be said that the circumstances my area. They are against country members. which gave rise to the proposed legislation have now ceased to exist, and this may or Sir ALAN FLETCHER: There would per­ may not be so. We feel, howeverl. that the haps be more critics in the honourable mem­ deficiencies which have been exposed in the ber's area than there are in mine. current legislation should be corrected to I share the view of the honourable member ensure that council employees do in fact for Rockhampton on the importance of have full rights of appeal against dismissal external studies. As a countryman, and one and disciplinary action taken against them by who represents a far-flung area, I think the the council. I might add at this stage that provision of external studies is particularly I intend, as soon as possible, and after dis­ important for all those people who, physically, cussions with the Local Government Assoc­ cannot possibly attend a university. If it iation of Queensland, to introduce an amend­ is any comfort to the honourable member, ment of the Local Government Act which City of Brisbane [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 643

will contain appeal rights based on those present schedule uses the word "nominated". contained in the City of Brisbane Act as This is not consistent with the "appoint­ amended by this Bill. ment" of other members of the board by The Bill seeks to clarify two points of con­ the Minister and the Council. tention v1 hich appear to exist in the present Mr. Harvey: Will you please repeat that Act. The first point of contention is that it point? is arguable whether the Town Clerk and permanent heads of departments of the !VIr. McKECHNiE: The existing Act says council are "employees" of the council for that the union representative will be nomin­ the purpose of exercising appeal rights. The ated. The Bill substitutes the word second point of contention is whether an "appointed" for the word "nominated". As employee of the council has a right of the honourable member will realise, that is appeal against dismissal if the council does impor-tant because of what happened recently. not state a reason for his dismissal. Provision is made for the Minister to To overcome these points of contention, appoint a person to represent the council the Bill specifically defines an "employee" as or the appellant on the appeal board, where including the Town Clerk and the permanent the council or the relevant union fails to do heads of departments of the council, and so within the prescribed time. The secretary prescribes that the right of appeal exists of the board is required to notify the whether the dismissal or disciplinary action Minister immediately of any such failure so is- that the Minister can make the necessary (a) On the ground of misconduct or appointment. It will be remembered that, in unfitness, or neglect of or violation of or the recent case, the council in fact failed to absence from duty, or any other offence notify the appeal board of the name of its against discipline; appointee. (b) On any other ground; or Various procedural alterations are made to specify to whom copies of notices of (c) Without any ground having been appeal, etc., are to be given, and time limits given or reason assigned. for such action. The Bill also provides that the grounds of At the request of the Municipal Officers' dismissal or otherwise disciplining an Association and the Federated Clerks' Union, employee must be stated in writing at the provision is made for private hearings of time he is notified he is dismissed or other­ appeals where the appellant so desires. Where wise disciplined, and, in the event of his the appellant elects to have a promotional appealing, the council is restricted to such appeal heard in private, legal representation grounds as so notified. Where the Council will not be allowed. Legal representation fails to specify grounds within the time will, however, be allowed in the case of mentioned previously, and an appeal is public promotional appeals and in the case lodged, the appeal board is required to allow of disciplinary appeals whether heard in the appeal and order reinstatement of the private or in public. employee or removal of the penalty imposed, as the case may be. The Bill, however, These provisions are consistent with corres­ gives the council the alternative of paying ponding provisions of the State Public Service compensation to the employee concerned Act. The unions concerned refer to the instead of reinstating him. I will give details high costs involved, which, they state, in of the method of determining the compensa­ some cases have amounted to three years of tion at a later stage in my speech. the salary increase involved. In terms of the Bill, an appeal may be In terms of the Bill, the appeal board is made on the ground of innocence of the required to forward to the Town Clerk the charge or of any act, omission, matter or evidence taken on an appeal and its decision conduct meriting dismissal or being other­ thereon except where the appeal was against wise disciplined as the case may be, or the Town Clerk's being dismissed or discip­ excessive severity of the punishment. lined. In this case the evidence and decision are to be forwarded to the Lord Mayor. The These provisions are proposed to close board's decisions are made final and binding gaps in the present law and ensure access to on the parties in the case of appeals against the appeal board in all circumstances of dismissal and disciplinary action, but subject dismissal or disciplinary action. to the discretion of the Establishment and Schedule III of the Act sets forth the Co-ordination Committee in the case of machinery for instituting, hearing and deter­ promotional appeals. Where the appeal mining appeals. The preparation of the board finds in favour of an appellant who Bill showed a need to make a number of has been dismissed by the council, it will amendments to the schedule to facilitate order his reinstatement. The council will, appeal procedures. I will give brief details however, be given the option of electing not of these amendments for the information of to reinstate the employee but to pay him honourable members. compensation. It is proposed that the member's rep­ The compensation payable will be an resentation on the appeal board will be amount equivalent to four weeks' salary or "appointed" by the executive of the union wages for each year of service with the of which the appellant is a member. The council or with another local authority in 644 City of Brisbane (20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill

Queensland. Such salary or wages is to be Mr. BALDWIN (Redlands) (3.30 p.m.): It reckoned on the average salary or wages is indeed a refreshing situation to hear a paid to the employee in the year prior to Minister in the Country Party-Liberal coalition his dismissal. These provisions are based come into this Chamber and take a step on those prescribed by the New South Wales away from their divine right of "hire and Local Government Act. fire", which I have heard propounded ever The Bill preserves the rights of a reinstated since I first became a member of a union employee in regard to such matters as his at 17 years of age. No doubt this is being entitlement to annual, sick and long service done for reasons that are sure to come out leave, superannuation benefits, etc. between during the debate, and are implied in some the time of his dismissal and of his rein­ of the Minister's remarks. statement. Likewise, where the appeal board Mr. Tucker: There is some ulterior motive. finds in favour of a dismissed employee and Mr. BALDWIN: I have no doubt that he is not reinstated by the Council, the Bill there is an ulterior motive. The Brisbane provides that he will continue to be entitled City Council has been operating since 1925 to salary or wages and other entitlements and this Government has been in office for up to the time the council pays him com­ 16 years, so this must be taken into con­ pensation. sideration. The Bill also provides for the legislation, as It has always been the stated and publicised amended, to be retrospective to 1 January policy of the Australian Labor Party to 1973, where an employee who is dismissed or give to every employee the right of appeal, disciplined between that date and the date if not through his union then in some other the amending legislation comes into force way. without grounds being given, so el~cts. It is considered that the need for this provision Mr. R. E. Moore interjected. remains, and the provision will cover cases JVir. BALDVVIN: The honourable member at present unknown or which may arise for Windsor, who is always so vociferous in before the Bill becomes law. his interjections-they are generally irrelevant As I have already indicated, it is considered and reveal a regrettable lack of knowledge that there is a need for clarification and -in this case contradicts his own statement extension of the appeal provisions contained that he knows Labor Party policy backwards_ in the City of Brisbane Act. The Bill is In this instance he is showing his gross designed to do this, and the end result ignorance, because that has been in our should be a strengthened appeal system for platform since 1893. all Brisbane City Council employees. Mr. Porter: What happened to Clem As I have mentioned, the Bill makes Jones? decisions of the appeal board final and bind­ Mr. BALDWIN: The honourable member ing on the parties in the case of appeals will find out all about Lord Mayor Jones, against dismissal or disciplining, subject to and every honourable member in the Chamber the council's right to elect not to reinstate has no doubt about what we will hear from a dismissed employee but to pay him com­ the honourable member for Toowong-he has pensation. The board's decisions on dismissal said it so often, and doubtless will say it or disciplinary appeals would be without again. meaning if they could be arbitrarily over­ We are very pleased that, if there is a ruled. Also, a precedent exists in the coun­ gap in the City of Brisbane Act, it is now cil's present ordinances (Chapter 2, Part 3, being plugged. To my knowledge, this act ordinance 36 (3)) which states- has been amended three times since this "Charge not proven. If the charge Government came to office. Obviously it has against an employee who has been sus­ not been looked at as closely as has been pended pursuant to this ordinance is not claimed, because today the Minister is saying admitted and the permanent head, or the that the purpose of this Bill is to close a committee, or the appeal board, decides gap in the Act. If there is a gap, the that the charge is not proved, the suspen­ Government left it there. It is closing it sion shall be forthwith removed and the now, in peculiar circumstances that, to me, suspended employee shall be reinstated in smell to high heaven because of the way his position without any loss of salary or the Bill has been introduced. Because of our wages in respect of the period of suspen­ policy it is not opposed by us, but we sion." reserve the right to examine its principles. Admittedly the Minister gave a very detailed As mentioned, the Bill provides that the council, or the Establishment and Co-ordina­ introductory speech, but he delivered it at tion Committee, as applicable, will have the a speed that I could not entirely cope with in longhand. I repeat that we reserve our right alternative of reinstatement or payment of to oppose any part of the Bill, or the whole compensation. It will not be forced to take of ii, depending on what we find in it. back a dismissed employee. The situation will thus be similar to that which was finally The Minister said that the Bill is aimed agreed upon in the case of the former Town at protecting the rights of some Brisbane Clerk. City Council employees. I commend the motion to the Committee. Mr. Miller: All employees. City of Brisbane [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 645

Mr. BALDWIN: I copied down the Min­ to that Act will be retrospective to 1 January. ister's speech, and as I heard it-- I sincerely hope that he will not make fish Mr. R. E. Moore: It covers all those not of one and flesh of the other. now covered. It is interesting to note that item 36 on the agenda of the Local Government Associa­ Mr. BALDWIN: He said, "All those not tion State Conference, which is in session at now covered", and he specified the Town the present time, contained a motion to the Clerk and permanent heads of council depart­ effect that the association request the State ments. Later he referred to the submissions Government to amend the Local Govern­ of the Municipal Officers' Association and the ment Act to provide for the setting-up of a Federated Clerks' Union. court of appeal for all local government It has frequently been claimed that members employees. It is even more interesting to of industrial unions automatically have the note that only 40 per cent of the delegates right of appeal through their unions as well who attended supported that motion, with the as, in certain instances, through the Industrial result that it was not carried. Commission. As a keen listener to the debate on that Mr. Mmer: What is the ALP's policy if motion, I could see that most of the delegates an employee wins his appeal? Is it that he followed the traditional pattern that has been should be reinstated? set by their counterparts in the Liberal Party The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable in this Chamber, who, wherever possible, if member for Ithaca is not in his correct they do not actually oppose rights of appeal, place in the Chamber. they at least limit them. A similar line is being taken in the proposal now being put Mr. Mmer: Now that I am in my correct before us by the Minister. The public at place, will you answer my question? large could quite easily believe that it is Mr. Houston: No, he will not. nothing but a sham. We are told that the members of the appeal board will be Mr. Miller: He doesn't like the question; appDinted by .the Minister. that's why. Mr. McKecl:mie: Only if the parties Mr. BALDWIN: When I have the oppor­ concerned fail tG do so. tunity, I will tell the honourable member for Ithaca, who is a noted union-baiter, that I Mr. BALDWIN: If they fail to appoint have been the victim of a "planted" charge, a representative? which resulted in my dismissal. I appealed Mr. McKeclmie: Yes. and was successful, with the result that my employer was forced to reinstate me. The Mr. BALDWIN: I cannot imagine a situ­ appeal was conducted by my union, which ation in which they would fail to do that. sought my reinstatement. As I said at the Mr. McKechnie: The council failed to do outset, I would not deprive anyone of his it on the occasion in question. right of appeal. I think I have answered the honourable member's question. Mr. BALDWIN: Perhaps the council had Mr. Miller: No, you haven't. I asked you a reason that I am not au fait with. what the ALP's policy was. Mr. McKecl:mie: I acknowledge that the council did have a reason. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Will the hon­ ourable member for Ithaca please cease Mr. BALDWIN: If it is relevant, this interjecting? point can be dealt with during the second­ reading debate. Mr. RALDWIN: Unlike the Liberal and Country Parties, the ALP. implements deci­ I was interested in the Minister's state­ sions that are arrived at during its conven­ ment that an employer will still have the tions, to which the Press has free access. By right not to re-engage. He will be able to contrast, the Liberal and Country Parties "buy his way out", if I may express it abide by decisions arrived at behind closed that way, by paying the employee compen­ doors by the large firms and companies. sation. That may be all very well for certain Those decisions are not publicised, as are large organisations, and perhaps it is a ours. I am amazed that the honourable mem­ good face-saving device. In my own case, ber for Ithaca has not purchased a copy of which I outlined a moment ago, the employer the Labor Party's policy. I certainly will did not want to re-engage me. not supply him with a copy, because the Mr. R. E. Moore: Why did he? ALP. is in the process of formulating a new policy-and it will be even better than the Mr. BALDWIN: Because he lost the case. present one. He told me--and he had already told the In his introduction, the Minister indicated rest of the staff-that that was what would that the provisions contained in this legisla­ happen to any other employee who tried to tion will also be written into the Local bring unionism into his factory. Rather than Government Act. I hope that in his reply have to eat his words in front of my fellow he will tell the Committee when this will be unionists he said to me, "You aren't happy done and, as well, whether the amendments with your position here. I think you could 646 City of Brisbane (20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill do better elsewhere," and I was not very Mr. BALDWIN: The honourable member hard to persuade. He also said, "I will pay for Merthyr indicates that he has not followed your wages until you find another position." my debate-as usual. He has blocked his ears I looked long and carefully, and ultimately with the width of his mouth, which we have found a better position. I thought it was often heard opened in this Chamber. rather smart of him to try to save face in that way, but I immediately spread circulars Mr. Lane: If you had been Lord Mayor, around the factory to let my erstwhile col­ would you have sacked McAulay? leagues know what had happened, so he did not in fact save face. Mr. BALDWIN: It seems that I must revert to the practice I have adopted in the On the Minister's outline, it is obvious past and just yell the honourable member that this amendment is motivated by the dis­ down. missal of one person-Mr. McAulay, the former Town Clerk. If I were an employer and, for any reason at all, could not work with one of my I know that other honourable members employees, I would tell him so and say on this side of the Chamber who will doubt­ to him what was said to me: "There is less enter the debate can tell us more about no future here for you. Go." I had to go, this matter than I. Perhaps they know even and I take it that any fair-minded person, more than the Minister. However, it will be in a similar case, would go. up to them. It is interesting to note the part played in this matter by the Press, which was Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (3.47 p.m.): I do the re:1l instigator of this amendment. It not think that any more damning indictment raised many fanciful causes and figures of the mentality that actuates those people relative to buying Mr. McAulay out, together who achieve positions of power in the Aus­ with issues of blackmail, and so on. tralian Labor Party could be found than that this Bill is necessary. What is the Bill? A Government Member: Do you know What is its purpose? The whole purpose the figure? of the Bill is to provide natural justice; a Mr. Davis: It was $134,000. natural justice that was totally denied by a very prominent A.L.P. leader to a major Mr. BALDWIN: That was the figure employee. The Town Clerk was dismissed quoted by the Minister in this Chamber. on the personal decree of a Labor Lord He also said that there was a possibility of Mayor. more to come. However, when the facts Mr. Marginson: And don't you hate him? were published, they were not given much prominence in the Press. Mr. PORTER: Does the honourable gentle­ man suggest that he agrees with the action of Mr. Miller: I didn't see it. the Lord Mayor in dismissing his Town Clerk and then refusing him the right of Mr. BALDWIN: The honourable member appeal? In that case, the honourable gentle­ did not want to. He was wearing a hood­ man shows himself to be in the same wink. category as the Lord Mayor. In fact, the Mr. McAulay got exactly what he was Lord Mayor by personal decree sacked the entitled to-no more and no less-and he Town clerk in a way that suggests "Alice agreed with what was done. He did not go in Wonderland". "Off with his head. I don't ahead with his appeal, even though there like him. He doesn't do what I want. Get was some strong persuasion by Government rid of him. Not only get rid of him, but members, who thought this was a chance refuse him any right of appeal against dis­ to hang some dirty linen on the line. He missal." said, ''Don't go ahead. I am quite happy." If the action was justified, why was the The inference can be drawn that Mr. Town Clerk summarily sacked? Had he McAulay was quite within his rights in been inefficient? Of course not. On the exercising his prerogative not to be re-engaged contrary, it was said that he was 9uite and not to take any further action. efficient. Had he committed some mrsde­ meanour? No. The Lord Mayor made it Once this Bill becomes law-the Govern­ plain that he had not. Had he been guilty ment has the necessary numbers-the Bris­ of some dereliction of duty? No. It was bane City Council will work within the new made absolutely clear that that was not the legislation, just as it has managed to work case, either; nothing like that at all. The within the restrictions of the City of Brisbane reason why the former Town Clerk was Act amendments introduced by this Govern­ sacked was that he refused to carry out the ment over the past 15 years. Lord Mayor's vengeful demand that he sack another ranking officer of the council because Mr. Lane: Where do you stand on the sacking of Tom McAulay? that officer in his private capacity, dared to act on poliing day for a party opposing the Government Members interjected. A.L.P. That is what this is all about. Does The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. W. anybody know of any other reason? The D. Hewitt): Order! I am listening to the Lord Mayor refused to accept that an officer honourable member for Redlands. of the Brisbane City Council had the right City of Brisbane [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 647

to act in a private capacity to support the Council to mow down its most senior officer political party of his choice. The Lord -the day of the long knives, as it were­ Mayor therefore demanded that the Town was surely a day of infamy without parallel Clerk sack this person. The Town Clerk in the history of governmental and semi­ did not sack him, and the Lord Mayor governmental bodies in the whole of Aust­ then wanted another ranking officer sacked. ralia. I know of nothing comparable with it. In fact, he was out to wield a really broad sword and cut them all down. What a Mr. Houston: What are you talking about? dreadful crime it is for a person to believe You sacked two Cabinet Ministers. What that he has a private right to support his about Alex Dewar and Alf Muller? own political party! What a shocking thing Mr. PORTER: The honourable gentleman that is! How dreadful! How dare this either has a very peculiar sense of humour, officer do such a thing! or he is so desperate in trying to justify what Mr. Baldwin: Would you be game to was done by his party's leader in the munici­ make that statement outside the House? pal sphere that he is clutching at any straw. Mr. PORTER: Which statement? It was quite plain that, when the Minister announced the intention to introduce a Bill Mr. Baldwin: The personal statement that to provide simple justice through the right you have just made against the Lord Mayor. of appeal, which was denied so frequently by the ALP. municipal leader, the dis­ Mr. PORTER: Goodness me! The hon­ missed officer would have the opportunity to ourable member is obviously endeavouring give in public his version of the events that to suggest that what I have said is not led up to his dismissal. This clearly is factual by implying that it could not be what the Lord Mayor did not want at any said outside the Chamber. I challenge him, price-! repeat "at any price" because these or any other member of his party, to tell are significant words-and this, of course, is me, in this debate or at the second reading, what the seeming dismissal was all about. what I have said that is not factual. I This was why the Lord Mayor did not say that it is the complete truth. want the Town Clerk to have any right of I say here and now that any officer appeal. This was why he stymied the of the council is entitled to exercise the then existing machinery for appeal by refus­ basic rights given to him under the Aust­ ing to put his officer onto the appeal ralian Constitution, and specified by the board. He could not afford at any price Declaration of Human Rights of the United to have the former Town Clerk reveal in Nations. That is a declaration so often public what he knew about things being referred to by honourable members opposite done by the council and through the council. when it suits them, and when they weep Of course, he recognised that the proposed copious crocodile tears as they say that some change in legislation would mean that the section of society is disadvantaged by actions Town Clerk would then have the oppor­ other than t~eir own. In the !?resent case, tunity, despite all he had done to prevent of course, this person can be disadvantaged it, to in fact say his piece. and ground into the dust, and it just d'C:,es None of us will ever know now what not matter. the former Town Clerk would have said. I think the high point of hypocrisy has I think all of us must wonder what was been reached on this issue. The Labor the cost of putting the lid on this episode. Party, which is always ranting and posturing And as for the suggestion of the honourable about its passionate belief in justice, equity member for Redlands that the money and fairness for all, and its concern for the involved was only that which is revealed common man, really demonstrated in this in the council's books of account, I do episode that that is just so much meretricious not think there is anybody who would do talk. All that it is concerned about-we are other than laugh that to scorn. All sorts seeing this in Canberra today-is exercising of figures have been talked about around absolute, brutal, ruthless and total power. the city-somewhere between $150,000 and It is certainly the "off with his head" $200,000-and I have no doubt whatever mentality, and just step over the blood as that a very considerable sum was paid to it gushes out-take no notice of it. The ensure that the former Town Clerk did Labor Party pretends that it believes in not speak out. Who paid the excess over common and natural justice, and has a the amount shown in the council's books? concern for the common man, but it reveals, Was it the Lord Mayor? Of course, that in the arbitrary exercise of power, that its is something none of us will ever know, top men are unnatural, and decidedly but I suggest that each of us is entitled to uncommon. draw his own conclusions. I believe that the sacking of Brisbane's It was a sickening, shameful affair from Town Clerk was one of the most shameful beginning to end. It reflects no credit on episodes in this city's and the Labor Party's the Labor Party, it reflects no credit on history. The Labor Party's history is, the council administration, and I believe of course, studded with political assassina­ that it reflects no credit on members of tions. But the day when the political the party who now try to excuse what the apparatus was brought into the Brisbane City Lord Mayor endeavoured to do. 648 City of Brisbane (20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill

. The proposed Bill is necessary. It pro­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! VIdes .the. simple justice which the great humamtanan A.L.P. was so anxious to deny. Mr. HARVEY: No, I would not. Now The contribution to the debate of the hon­ shut up! ourable member for Redlands suggests, I The CHAIRMAN: Order! say, that the A.L.P. knows that it has no case in attempting to say something against Mr. HARVEY: Democracy will become a the Bill. The honourable member for Red­ complete success when we show as much lands said they would not oppose it and then zeal in performing our duties to our fellow made a weaseling, weak-knee'd endeavour man as we do when insisting on our rights. to justify why he did not like it, why If anybody wants to talk about what may what the Lord Mayor did was quite correct. have been done by the Brisbane City Council, particularly under the powers contained in Mr. BALDWIN: I rise to a point of Chapter 2, let me point out that it was this order. I did not make any such attempt. Parliament that granted those powers to the The record of the debate will show that. council. Tine CHAIRMAN: OTder! What is the It was very interesting to hear the Minister's honourable member's point of order? comments about the appointment of additional Mr. BALDWIN: That the honourable persons to the appeal board if either of the member for Toowong has misrepresented parties concerned did not make its appoint­ me, and I ask him to withdraw. ment within a reasonable time, as was the case on this occasion. I ask the Minister The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honour­ to indicate in his reply what he regards as able member for Redlands says that he has a "reasonable time". been misrepresented. I trust that the hon­ Mention was made about the A.L.P.'s policy ourable member for Toowong will withdraw his remark. towards decisions of an appeal board. I know of two instances-one under the Reg Mr. PORTER: I am very happy to with­ Groom administration and the other under draw it. I do not wish to harm the hon­ the Cl em J ones administration-when the ourable member's sensitive feelings in this recommendation of the appeal board was not Chamber. accepted by the Establishment and Co-ordin­ The point is that if the A.L.P. endeavours ation Committee. As a result of the decision to. justify what the Lord Mayor did, it in the latter case, the 1971 Labor-in-Politics w1ll run counter to every principle that, as Convention made it very clear that the a party on.ce. with a very noble history, decisions of the appeal board would be ~ party behevmg in humanitarian purposes, binding on subsequent occasions. Candidly, Jt professes to espouse. I cannot see that I commend the convention for that decision. honourable members opposite can do other By that decision the convention virtually than condemn the Lord Mayor for what he pointed out, "What is the use of having an attempted to do, and I say that I am quite appeal board unless the decisions of that sure that the arguments of other honourable tribunal are recognised?" Over the years members opposite will be similar to the there have been numerous appeals by Bris­ ones that the honourable member for Red­ bane City Council employees, particularly lands used-nothing but wind and water. members of the Tramway and Motor Bus They will support the Bill in fact, while at Employees' Union, not against dismissals but the same time going through some peculiar, against demotions or other penalties imposed intricate, convoluted dance to make it look in accordance with conditions of the award. as though they do not like it-that there On every occasion the recommendation of is something wrong with it, but they are the appeal board was accepted. forced to support it anyhow. Had I been drafting the Bill, I probably I certainly commend the Bill. I hope would have taken a different approach. The it will show to the people of this city provisions of the Bill should apply equally just what they are up against with the under the Local Government Act. I draw leader of the municipal Labor Party now the attention of the Committtee to the position in office at the City Hall. of a health inspector. No local authority in the State can sack a health inspector Mr. HARVEY (Stafford) (4 p.m.): I rise without the approval of the State Health for the sole purpose of giving voice to my Department. There is a very good reason own convictions. I have never been hypo­ for that. As the Minister for Works and critical. My word is my bond, and a man's Housing is in the Chamber, I point out that word is the most precious thing he can have that principle should also apply to building in life. inspectors. Mr. Lane: Would you have sacked I am not confining my remarks to the McAulay? Would you care to start your Brisbane City Council. In any local authority speech by making a declaration on that? area pressure can be exerted on local gov­ ernment officers to go outside the ambit of Mr. HARVEY: He was not sacked while I was there. their authority in the execution of their duties or do something which they know is Mr. Lane: Would you have sacked him? not in accordance with the power and auth­ Come on. ority delegated to them under the provisions City of Brisbane [20 SEPTEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 649 of the relevant Acts. There have been cases included in the Local Government Act. I in country areas of a health inspector being also suggest that he consider extending to victimised because he has "come down" on persons in similar categories within the local something a landowner in the area may have government structure of the State the pro­ done. With the new building ordinances and visions applicable to health surveyors. the registration of builders, I think that building surveyors, as they are now known, Mr. GUNN (Somerset) (4.9 p.m.): I should be similarly provided for under the should like to add a few observations on building code. the proposals submitted by the Minister. In the nine years I spent in local government, Mr. Houghton: They use your money and I did on one occasion find it necessary to mine in defending these people. dismiss an employee, but I can assure hon­ Mr. HARVEY: That is correct. On many ourable members that this was done after occasions ratepayers' money is used in an a full council investigation. endeavour to justify their actions. In my It was interesting to listen to the honour­ view, this is misappropriation of public able member for Stafford. If the attitude funds. of the Brisbane City Council had been in The Minister mentioned the Establishment accordance with the tenor of his speech and Co-ordination Committee. In the Bris­ today, in all probability it would not have bane City Council at the present time the been necessary to introduce this Bill. Although appointment of the Town Clerk or a per­ the dismissal of Mr. McAulay is in the manent head is made on the recommenda­ past, the bad aroma associated with it has tion of the Establishment and Co"ordination not cleared. The real reason for his sacking Committee to the full council. His dismissal has not been made public, but probably at must also be on the same basis. In the some time in the future it will leak out. past the appointment was made by the full council, and I believe that it should remain The Minister has said that the provisions with the full council rather than with a of this Bill will be written into the Local reduced number of elected representatives. Government Act. Such a move is to be applauded, because there is no doubt that Mr. Lane: Or the Lord Mayor on his own. even in local government animosity can develop between certain councillors and their Mr. HARVEY: I am making this speech. administrators. Usually the administrator of Unlike the council, the Establishment and Co-ordination Committee is not a statutory a shire or a city is a very knowledgeable body and therefore can be held responsible person who has spent many years in the for its actions only if its decision is accepted study of local government administration. To and dealt with by the full council. This say the least, he is a valuable man. It would is a point worthy of note. As for the be a matter for regret if such a man were heads of departments and the most senior dismissed as the result of some personal administrators, I believe that the decision animosity between him and, say, his chair­ should lie with the full council in every man or the councillors. local authority. Similarly, I consider that The honourable member for Stafford has a clash with an elected representative or claimed quite rightly that these provisions representatives is not a ground for dismissal should be extended to cover health inspectors -and that should apply equally in the Gov­ and building inspectors. ernment structure and that of any other level of government. Mr. Davis: And hospitals boards, too. To be quite candid, if I were in a position of authority, I should hate to have around Mr. GUNN: I am not conversant with the me a group of "Yes" men. I would want operations of hospitals boards. It is important to know the recommendations of those that we have not only open State Govern­ around me and then give them due con­ ment but also open local government, and it sideration. No-one should keep a dog and is something towards which we are working. bark himself. One of Mr. Slaughter's com­ The honourable member for Redlands has ments used to be, "You must always have criticised the large number of amendments brains on tap, not necessarily on top." We that have been made to the Local Govern­ must have those skilled in their particular ment Act. Surely those amendments are to trade or calling to make their recommenda­ be applauded. Dozens of amendments have tions in the light of their knowledge and been made to the Acts under the control of experience. Whether those recommendations the Minister for Justice, and from them the are accepted or rejected is up to the community as a whole will benefit. administration, but we must have these people who, because of their training or pro­ Mr. Davis: Why did you change the Local fession, are capable of making recommenda­ Government Act to allow the chairman or tions. the mayor to be elected by the aldermen? In reply to the comments of the honour­ able member for Ithaca by interjection, I Mr. GUNN: No complaints have been strongly commend to the Minister that the received from country areas about those provisions he has enunciated today be amendments. It depends on the point of 650 City of Brisbane, &c., Bill [25 SEPTEMBER 1973) Questions Upon Notice view. When I was elected chairman, I was elected by the people and I saw nothing wrong with that. The proposed amendments are necessary to fill a long-existing gap in the City of Brisbane Act. I am sure that they will meet with the approval of the people of Brisbane. Many questions have been asked about the sacking of Mr. McAulay. Although the amount he received has not been made public, I am sure that many people are of the view that he received a pay-off from the Lord Mayor. l am not particularly interested in the Brisbane City Council as such, but I am disappointed at the fact that apparently money has kept Mr. McAulay silent. A bad odour is associated with his dis­ missal, which certainly does not have the earmarks of open local government. As I have said, when I found it necessarv as chairman of the council to dismiss an employee, I did so only with the approval of the full council, and with the Press in attendance. Mr. Newton: You had the numbers, too. Mr. GUNN: That is not so. It was a unanimous decision. It was not necessary to look for numbers, although the honour­ able member for Belmont often has to do that. Mr. Newton: It was a Country Party council. Mr. GUNN: The honourable member should not worry about that. He would not know the politics of that council, but I assure him it was a good, open council. At no time did I have to look for numbers, as the honourable member will probably have to do in order to maintain his present position. Mr. Davis interjected. Mr. GUNN: I did not. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon­ ourable member to please address the Chair. Mr. GUNN: I am sorry, Mr. Lickiss. The honourable member for Brisbane has raised certain points that I should not like to let go unanswered. Mr. Miller: He would not bring them all to light. Mr. GUNN: Certainly not. I do not believe that he has a good knowledge of council affairs, and I will try to ignore him from now on. The Minister has introduced this measure to meet a long-felt want. Officers who have devoted their life to local government need protection. I have much pleasure in corn­ mending the measure. Progress reported. The House adjourned at 4.18 p.m.