COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Official Hansard

MONDAY, 2 APRIL 2001

THIRTY-NINTH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—EIGHTH PERIOD

BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

CONTENTS

CHAMBER HANSARD Delegation Reports— Parliamentary Delegation to East Timor ...... 26103 Distinguished Visitors...... 26104 Delegation Reports— Parliamentary Delegation to East Timor ...... 26104 Committees— Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee—Report...... 26107 Criminal Assets Recovery Bill 2001— First Reading ...... 26109 Australian Bill of Rights Bill 2001— First Reading ...... 26112 Excise Tariff Amendment (Petrol Tax Cut) Bill (No. 2) 2001— First Reading ...... 26116 Customs Tariff Amendment (Petrol Tax Cut) Bill (No. 2) 2001— First Reading ...... 26116 States’ Contribution to Lower Petrol Prices Bill 2001— First Reading ...... 26116 Statements By Members— Easter Message...... 26118 Education: Funding for Government Schools ...... 26119 Shortland Electorate: Windale Police and Citizens Youth Club Internet Cafe...... 26119 Forde Electorate: Labor Candidate...... 26119 Isaacs Electorate: Telstra STD Zoning ...... 26120 Mackenzie, Mr Ian Seaforth...... 26120 Banking: Services...... 26120 Cook Electorate: Coastcare Projects...... 26121 Lalor Electorate ...... 26121 Dunkley Electorate...... 26122 Banking: Branch Closures...... 26122 Leisel Jones ...... 26122 Tarnee White ...... 26122 Questions Without Notice— Economy: Growth ...... 26123 Families: Tax Compensation ...... 26123 Business: Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry Survey...... 26124 Economy: Retail Trade Figures...... 26125 Youth Allowance ...... 26126 Water: Salinity Action Plan ...... 26126 Youth Allowance ...... 26128 Commonwealth-State Financial Arrangements...... 26129 Youth Allowance ...... 26130 Australian Defence Force...... 26131 Job Network: Young Unemployed ...... 26133 Health: Policy...... 26134 Job Network: Breaches...... 26135 Ethanol Production...... 26135 HIH Insurance ...... 26136 Internet: Gambling...... 26136 HIH Insurance ...... 26137 i CONTENTS—continued

Trade Unions: Membership...... 26138 HIH Insurance ...... 26139 Trade: Export Performance...... 26140 Personal Explanations...... 26141 Questions To Mr Speaker— Questions on Notice ...... 26142 Questions on Notice ...... 26143 Questions on Notice ...... 26143 Questions on Notice ...... 26143 Member for Parramatta: Points of Order...... 26143 Petitions— Australian Broadcasting Corporation: Independence and Funding...... 26143 Fuel Prices ...... 26144 Fuel Prices ...... 26144 United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women ...... 26144 Health: General Practitioners and Medicare...... 26145 Asylum Seekers: Work Rights...... 26145 Medicare: Belmont Office...... 26145 Centrelink: Job Cuts ...... 26145 Kirkpatrick, Private John Simpson...... 26145 Food Labelling ...... 26146 Telstra: Privatisation...... 26146 Goods and Services Tax: Pensioner Bonus and Pension Increase...... 26146 Health: Bulk-Billing...... 26146 Roads: F3 Freeway...... 26146 HMAS Hawkesbury: Medical Treatment ...... 26147 Van Oostveen, Mr William: Compensation...... 26147 Telecommunications Towers ...... 26147 Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme: Nasal Sprays...... 26147 Bankstown Airport: Proposed Expansion...... 26148 Private Members Business— Renewable Energy Resources ...... 26148 Telstra: Privatisation...... 26153 Grievance Debate— Infrastructure Funding...... 26160 Dalai Lama ...... 26162 Australian Taxation Office: Petroulias, Mr Nick...... 26164 Clinical Waste Management...... 26166 Scouting Movement: Benefits ...... 26169 Environment: Sustainable Use of Resources...... 26170 Chisholm Electorate: Goods and Services Tax...... 26173 Imports: Orange Juice Concentrate ...... 26175 Assent To Bills...... 26177 Crimes Amendment (Age Determination) Bill 2001— Second Reading...... 26177 Consideration in Detail...... 26188 Third Reading...... 26190 Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2000— Second Reading...... 26190 Adjournment— ii CONTENTS—continued

Environment: Kyoto Protocol...... 26214 Diesel Fuel: Excise Reduction...... 26215 Tobacco Industry ...... 26216 Menzies Electorate: Persian New Year...... 26217 Ultranationalism ...... 26218 Youth Suicide ...... 26219 Tierney, Mrs Daisy ...... 26220 Request For Detailed Information— Parliament House: Television Services ...... 26220 Questions On Notice— Goods and Services Tax: Price Exploitation Code—(Question No. 2140)...... 26221 Australia Post: Lord Howe Island—(Question No. 2322)...... 26221 Vietnam Veterans: Conflict Service Records—(Question No. 2334)...... 26222 Wood and Paper Industry Strategy: Funding—(Question No. 2338) ...... 26222 Detention Centres: Swedish Model—(Question No. 2359) ...... 26223 Australia Post: Delivery of Non-Postal Items—(Question No. 2365)...... 26223 Australia Post: St Kilda West Post Office—(Question No. 2369)...... 26224 Goods and Services Tax: Centrelink Payments—(Question No. 2370) ...... 26225 Australian Public Service: Superannuation—(Question No. 2380) ...... 26225 Reconciliation and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs Portfolio: Procurement Policies—(Question No. 2397)...... 26226 Employment, Workplace Relations and Small Business Portfolio: Procurement Policies—(Question No. 2400) ...... 26229 Dairy Industry: Consumer Levy—(Question No. 2403) ...... 26230 Information Technology Industry: Staffing—(Question No. 2413) ...... 26230 National Office of the Information Economy—(Question No. 2437)...... 26235

Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26103

Monday, 2 April 2001 participate in an international peacekeeping ————— force and in our relationship with the UN from the perspective of those with practical Mr SPEAKER (Mr Neil Andrew) took experience in achieving the aims of the chair at 12.30 p.m., and read prayers. UNTAET. DELEGATION REPORTS The delegation was briefed by the Acting Parliamentary Delegation to East Timor Force Commander, Major General Mike Mr HAWKER (Wannon) (12.31 p.m.)—I Smith, on the political and security situation present the report of the parliamentary visit in East Timor, force structure, composition, to East Timor on 12 and 13 February 2001. mission and disposition matters and PKF The delegation visited East Timor on 12 and operations; and by other ADF personnel 13 February this year, and it comprised about their experiences and activities as part members of the Joint Standing Committee on of the peacekeeping force. The delegation Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, the was universally impressed by the enthusi- majority of whom had participated in a pre- asm, professionalism and commitment of the vious visit of the committee to East Timor in Australian troops whom it met. Morale was December 1999. Our visit was relevant for high; the troops were pleased to be working the committee’s current inquiries into Aus- in a real operational environment for which tralia’s relations with the United Nations and they had rigorously trained. The delegation the use of foreign aid to advance human appreciates the detailed briefings and assis- rights in developing nations. I would like to tance provided by Major General Smith, thank all members of the delegation, espe- Brigadier Ken Gillespie, Lieutenant Colonel cially Senator Ferguson, the delegation John Caligeri and others. leader. I also wish to thank the delegation On the second day the delegation in- secretary, Ms Gillian Gould, and the military spected water supply and sanitation projects adviser to the committee, Lieutenant Colonel funded by AusAID. The non-government Mike Milford. organisation, Bia Hula, works collaboratively The visit enabled members and senators to with the local people in the design, planning see at first hand the progress that has been and construction of the facilities. On our re- made in East Timor in a wide range of areas turn to Dili, the delegation met with Mr Jean- under the guidance and authority of the Christian Cady, Deputy Special Representa- United Nations Transitional Administration tive of the Secretary-General, and discussed in East Timor, UNTAET. The delegation was humanitarian concerns with Mr Andrew also able to gain some impressions of Aus- Harper, of the United Nations High Commis- tralia’s participation in the venture. Australia sioner for Refugees, and Mr Patrick Burgess, provides the largest contingent in the UN head of the UNTAET Human Rights Unit. Peacekeeping Force, the PKF, including the The delegation also had the opportunity to position of deputy force commander. Almost observe a training session for civil servants 8,000 peacekeeping troops from 25 countries on budgetary matters and to talk informally make up the PKF, under a mandate from the to representatives from a wide range of or- Security Council. Australia is performing a ganisations. We were very impressed with significant role in the formation of the East the work that many Australians are doing in Timor Defence Force and is also engaged in East Timor in this area. The delegation ap- many other activities in support of East preciates the briefings and assistance pro- Timor’s move to independence. vided. I am pleased to report to the House On the first day of the visit, the delegation that members of the delegation who had vis- travelled to Suai, near the border with West ited East Timor one year ago found a no- Timor, and to Batugade on the western bor- ticeably different East Timor this time, par- der. The delegation was particularly inter- ticularly in Dili. There are now vastly greater ested in assessing the aptitude of the ADF to numbers of people appearing on the streets. 26104 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

Markets are to be seen everywhere and many ing a budget are all having to be learned in a restaurants are appearing. However, un- very short space of time. As the leader of the roofed homes and derelict buildings remain a delegation mentioned, we did see a group of poignant reminder of the terror and trauma public servants learning the framing of a experienced by the East Timorese people budget, and all of us came away impressed only very recently. These people are now with not only the challenge that these people committed to creating a new nation for them- are facing but the skilful way the Australians selves. The scale of this task is immense; who are assisting them with this are carrying however, the delegation saw that much has out their work and the enthusiasm of those been done. I commend the report to the involved in this process. House. One of the most poignant moments of this DISTINGUISHED VISITORS visit was our visit to the cathedral grounds at Mr SPEAKER—Before I recognise the Suai where priests and nuns were brutally member for Throsby, could I use the oppor- murdered. Perhaps the lives of priests and tunity to indicate to the House that we have nuns are no more precious than any other, present in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery but it did illustrate to the world the senseless Sir Harold Young, former President of the barbarity of much of the militia action. No- Senate. I welcome you, sir, to the Distin- one will ever know the full extent of the guished Visitors Gallery. murders, and no-one will appreciate the trauma, the brutality and the senseless vio- Honourable members—Hear, hear! lence, the rape and so much more, that went DELEGATION REPORTS on at that time. Parliamentary Delegation to East Timor There is also the question of the return of Consideration resumed. the refugees from West Timor. Indonesia has Mr HOLLIS (Throsby) (12.36 p.m.)— to control the militia operating openly and No-one can visit East Timor without feeling with impunity within the camps. The returns a sense of outrage at the grotesque and unnec- have slowed to a trickle. Some claim up to essary violence and destruction inflicted on 60,000 remain. But it is not clear how many the East Timorese people by the militia with really want to return to East Timor. Some the help and support of elements of the Indo- whose sympathies are with the Indonesians nesian army some two years ago. Last Octo- want to stay there; others are fearful of repri- ber I sat in the Security Council at the United sals if they return. But it is essential that an Nations in New York when the special repre- account be made, that these people be given sentative of the Secretary-General, Sergio accurate information and that the criminal Vieira de Mello, clearly and unequivocally thugs of the militia operating in the camps be put the responsibility for the destruction in brought under control. East Timor and the ongoing intimidation Australia has made a tremendous com- where it clearly belongs—at the hands of the mitment to East Timor—and, I might add, Indonesians. He told the Security Council our work there has been praised at the UN— that Indonesia could and should stop the in- but there is also a guilt feeling associated timidation and the violence. with it. For too long we closed our eyes to Having visited East Timor some 14 what was happening in East Timor. But the months ago, like other members this time we commitment and dedication—and, I might could see the tremendous progress that had say, professionalism—of our defence forces been made. Yet so much remains to be done. is very evident, as is the work of the aid The Indonesians, like the Portuguese before agencies. I wonder if there is an element of them, did not train or promote the Timorese duplication in some of the aid work, but people, so the whole rudiments of running a Timor will need our support and our under- country, establishing a bureaucracy, running standing for many years. We will not always the health and education services and fram- agree with everything this new nation does, Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26105 but we must be sensitive to their decisions as of security. The first time we got there the a sovereign independent state. moment we stepped off the plane we were I do hope that after the election in August surrounded by our own military, heavily of their new parliament we quickly establish armed. We were bundled into a secure vehi- a parliamentary friendship group with the cle and everywhere we went we had a sig- new parliament to our north. Since our visit nificant military presence, to make sure that it has been announced that the elections will we did not become targets or come to any be held in East Timor in August of this year. harm. This time when we got off the plane There is still major work to be completed we were able to stand around on the tarmac before this, especially for a country that has and do the meet and greet types of things that never voted for a government before. The you always do on these occasions and travel provisional administration is aware of the around in ordinary vehicles with a minimal need to create a public service and the other military escort. So, although the danger has attributes of a sovereign state. The local po- not gone completely, clearly the security lice and the army will play a role in this, and situation has improved quite dramatically. the question of land titles must be resolved. On our first visit when we flew around There is also a question of bringing to justice Dili and the rest of East Timor, particularly those who have committed atrocities. The down to Suai in the south-west, it was very United Nations human rights unit is working noticeable that there was hardly a building on instituting a judicial system for bringing that had a roof left on it. But this time virtu- perpetrators of crime to justice and proposals ally all of those buildings had been reroofed, for a truth commission. for example. The last time there was no After years of neglect Australia now is business activity at all. Now there is signifi- committed to East Timor for the long term. cant business activity, restaurants and shops There will be a military presence there while and so on, although one would have to add ever the militia are active and Indonesia re- the qualifier that much of it is to support the fuses to bring them under control. One is international presence rather than necessarily unsure what the uncertain future of Indonesia the East Timorese themselves. Life was also means for East Timor. The delegation’s visit getting back to normal on this visit: for ex- was particularly worth while. I pay tribute to ample, in the mornings you saw the kids go- our military adviser, Lieutenant Colonel ing to school, which certainly was not hap- Mick Melford, for his assistance and to the pening the last time. many people in Timor, both military and ci- It is important to recognise the very sig- vilian, who gave so freely of their time, an- nificant role that the Australian military has swered our questions and made the visit, played in East Timor. The Australians and brief as it was, such a worthwhile experi- the New Zealanders are primarily on the ence. (Time expired) border, which is a difficult and dangerous Mr NUGENT (Aston) (12.41 p.m.)—I area to be in. The professionalism of our support the comments of the previous two troops there is quite outstanding. As you go speakers. As has been mentioned, the Joint around and get your briefings and meet the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, De- soldiers—often still living under canvas in fence and Trade in fact went to East Timor in very difficult, hot, humid and mosquito in- December of 1999, just two or three months fested conditions—you find that we have a after the initial insertion of Australian forces lot of very fine young Australians in our under the umbrella of the United Nations military, and we should never underestimate operation, and the visit this year was a fol- the quality contribution that those young low-up some 14 months later so that we men and women have made. I personally could draw comparisons between the two have some qualms about the performance of situations. The contrasts between the two the United Nations. Undoubtedly things have visits were quite stark—for a start, in terms improved over the year or so since we were there but, given the resources that have gone 26106 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 into the place, the amount of money that has Mr SPEAKER—The honourable mem- been allocated, I would have expected to see ber for Throsby had indicated to me that he significantly greater improvement in the civil was wanting to add something for a moment reconstruction tasks than has actually oc- or two. In fact, the time for the debate has curred. not expired. If he were to seek leave and I think it is important, though, that people leave were to be granted, I would be pre- understand that there are some very signifi- pared to allow him to speak again. cant problems to be overcome. For example, Mr HOLLIS (Throsby) (12.46 p.m.)—by there is no agreement on what will be the leave—The only point that I want to make, language of the new country. The older peo- Mr Speaker, is that, given the uncertain fu- ple want to speak Portuguese, the younger ture of Indonesia, one is unsure what this ones have been brought up to speak Indone- means for East Timor. It is in the interest of sian, those who are interested in the future of the three countries—Australia, Timor and business, diplomacy and commerce want it Indonesia—to work in harmony. The sooner to be English, and a lot of people in the the Indonesians get over their sensitivities countryside speak the local language of regarding Australia’s role in East Timor—a Tetun. So you have got four different lan- role that we had no option but to take—the guages and there is no agreement on which it sooner relations will return to a more con- should be. There is no legal system, so they structive agenda. I also pay tribute once are, pro tem, using the Indonesian system more to the professionalism of our troops they inherited. The currency is, de facto, the there. American dollar—there is no formal cur- Mr TIM FISCHER (Farrer) (12.47 rency. The World Bank say they will become p.m.)—by leave—I want to commend the self-sufficient in terms of agriculture and if members of the committee, noting that a the oil revenues from the Timor Gap Treaty number of committees have gone to East are renegotiated, but I did not really hear too Timor, and focus particularly on the Austra- many convincing arguments that that was lian armed forces there and on the transi- going to happen. tional work now taking place to allow the There are political factions starting to ap- elections to proceed on or about 30 August pear on the scene within the East Timor this year. That will be two years exactly community itself and Dili has had a popula- since the original vote in the popular con- tion explosion. There are more than 40,000 sultation, which I had the pleasure of at- people there now than ever lived there be- tending as leader of the Australian delegation fore. That partly reflects a drift from the at that particular time. country to the city and partly reflects the fact I acknowledge the progress that has been that there are so many outsiders there gener- made. I think it is genuine progress, espe- ating an artificial economy. So when the UN, cially with regard to security and the stan- some of the NGOs and other expats go one dard of living. I am underwhelmed by the can see that there is going to be some col- culture associated with the bureaucracy and lapse in the economy in Dili. Refugees, as that element of it that lives on the ship tied my colleague commented on, are still an on- up at Dili and the subset around it. It is al- going problem. We did have the chance to ways very difficult when you have those who visit some of Australia’s aid projects, but I are in receipt of US dollars—large amounts think we need to understand that there will of US dollars. That is something that has got be a long-term commitment on the part of to be thought about a lot more over this next our forces and certainly the need for aid period of transition. But in this month of An- funds for many years to come. I commend zac Day I again want to praise the Australian the Australian contribution, and I commend armed forces personnel and other Austra- the report to the House. lians, particularly in CIVPOL, who have made such an enormous contribution in East Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26107

Timor in the period since the middle of 1999. tranches, was in many respects a much more It has been fantastic work and it should not informative document than the first one and be allowed to colour the ongoing relationship incorporated many of the committee’s sug- between two great countries: Australia and gestions for improvement. Indonesia. East Timor’s future lies in having Before I continue further with the matter a good friendship and relationship with both of the second loan, I would like to draw at- Australia and Indonesia. tention to the serious situation that erupted in Finally, the First Battalion Royal Austra- PNG just as the committee was considering lian Regiment, my old battalion, is up at its report on the loan matter. The latest crisis Balibo and nearby Maliano at this time and was an attack by renegade PNG defence about to rotate after several months of very force soldiers on the armoury at Murray Bar- good service. I salute the work that 1RAR racks, which resulted in the looting of a large have put in. They have been very profes- number of automatic weapons. This attack sional, but so has everyone else with the was apparently prompted by the leaked Australian armed forces, including Colonel Commonwealth Eminent Persons Group re- Ken Brownrigg, Defence Liaison Officer, port on restructuring and downsizing the who carried the burden, especially during the PNGDF. It forced Sir Mekere Morauta to period of the polling, through to the arrival announce that the restructuring proposals of General Cosgrove. would not be implemented and that an am- Mr SPEAKER—Order! The time allotted nesty had been granted to the rebels. This for the debate has expired. was a very dangerous development, which had serious implications for democratic pro- COMMITTEES cesses in PNG. The most recent news reports Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade from Port Moresby have been somewhat Committee more reassuring. However, although the sto- Report len weapons have now been returned, the Mr JULL (Fadden) (12.50 p.m.)—On be- rebel soldiers and students have demanded half of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on the recall of parliament; the removal of for- Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, I pres- eign influences, such as the ‘unnecessary’ ent the committee’s report on the Second Australian and New Zealand military advis- Australian Government Loan to Papua New ers; and cancellation of the economic re- Guinea. forms required by the World Bank and the IMF. Ordered that the report be printed. The Treasurer’s recent announcement that Mr JULL—A second loan to Papua New the second tranche of the $US30 million loan Guinea was granted by the Australian gov- has been released demonstrates the Austra- ernment in December last year. The legisla- lian government’s confidence in the reform tion, the International Monetary Agreements program of Sir Mekere Morauta. It also il- Act, requires the Joint Standing Committee lustrates the importance of maintaining the on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade to momentum of the ambitious economic, po- examine the national interest statements is- litical and institutional reform program sued by the Treasurer in relation to all loans commenced by the Morauta government in made under that act. The committee must 1999. To do otherwise would jeopardise the report on the matter within two months of gains already made and would risk letting the tabling in parliament of the national in- PNG slide into chaos by default. Despite a terest statement. As the House will recall, the few setbacks, including a temporary rift with first loan to PNG, equivalent to $US80 mil- the World Bank, the reform program is lion, was the subject of a report presented by largely on track and therefore should con- the committee in October last year. The na- tinue to be given support by the international tional interest statement for the second loan, community. equivalent to $US30 million in three equal 26108 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

Although the report I have presented to- retariat for their contributions to this short day did consider the proposed reform of the but important inquiry. I commend the report PNGDF as part of an overall review of the to the House. bilateral relationship, the main focus of our Mr HOLLIS (Throsby) (12.55 p.m.)—As inquiry was the second Australian govern- recent events have shown, the Australia- ment loan to PNG in the context of the IMF Papua New Guinea relationship has to be and World Bank’s structural adjustment pro- handled with sensitivity on both sides. While gram. In essence, the weight of evidence respecting PNG sovereignty, we also have a presented to the committee led to the conclu- right to comment on events in PNG, espe- sion that granting the second loan was cially as it is in both our interests to have a clearly in Australia’s national interest. How- peaceful and stable PNG. The report tabled ever, some criticisms remain. In our report today is the result of the Joint Standing on the first loan, we recommended that the Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and International Monetary Agreements Act be Trade inquiry into the national interest amended to enable the committee to be in- statement—as is required under the Interna- volved before future loans are executed. Our tional Monetary Agreements Act—on the second report has again expressed concern at second loan to PNG under the act. As the the timing of the referral of the national in- chairman has said, the statement for the sec- terest statement to the committee and has ond loan was in many respects a much more reaffirmed the recommendation to amend the informative document than the first one and act to enable the committee to be involved incorporated many of the committee’s sug- earlier in the process. gestions for improvement. While acknowledging that prompt re- This loan is in Australia’s interest as it sponses are essential in circumstances of contributes to a stable, prosperous and in- acute regional difficulties, such as the Asian creasingly self-sufficient PNG. There was financial crisis several years ago, the com- concern when the PNG government recently mittee remains of the view that a mechanism decided not to renew the visa of the World should be found which provides effective Bank’s resident coordinator in Port Moresby. parliamentary scrutiny of the loans. We be- Not unnaturally, this caused speculation in lieve that such a mechanism need not delay Australia and elsewhere about the integrity the loan approval process unduly, nor com- of the structural adjustment program for promise Australia’s ability to act swiftly in PNG instituted by the IMF-World Bank, as conjunction with the international financial well as Australia’s involvement in the major institutions. When future loans under the act PNG-Australia gas pipeline project for which are being considered, the committee suggests Prime Minister Morauta has sought Austra- that the relevant Commonwealth agencies lian financial assistance of up to $650 mil- provide a confidential briefing to the com- lion. mittee on the draft of the proposed national interest statement and the terms of the loan. I support the efforts of the Morauta gov- This should be arranged well before the ernment, which since coming to office in statement has been finalised and before the July 1999 has been dedicated to restoring loan is executed. Papua New Guinea’s economic management. Political reform remains an important but In conclusion, I wish to express the com- sensitive element of the PNG government mittee’s gratitude to the organisations and reform program and it will be many years, individuals who contributed to the review: perhaps decades, before the full effects of the the High Commissioner for Papua New political and economic reforms will be fully Guinea, Treasury, the Department of Foreign felt in that country. But there have been a Affairs and Trade, AusAID, the Australia- number of significant developments since the Papua New Guinea Business Council and the committee’s previous inquiry. There have Australian National University. I also thank been the government’s budget and political my colleagues on the committee and the sec- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26109 integrity legislation passed last year. But the process—and this is not only in Treasury. PNG, like many other countries, is subject to At the least, when future loans under the act the vagaries of international trade and it is are being considered, the committee suggests disappointing that the low level of commod- that the relevant Commonwealth agencies ity export prices has continued. provide a confidential briefing to the com- Until the law and order situation is fully mittee on the draft of the proposed national under control, PNG will bear an unnecessary interest statement and the terms of the loans. cost and image problem. While respecting This should be arranged well before the PNG’s right to decide if they want tourism or statement has been finalised and before a not, and at what level, I note tourism could loan is executed. I commend the report to the be an income generator. I respect the view House. that the PNG people do not want foreigners Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Nehl)— to come and gawk at them, and also that they The time allotted for statements on this do not want to go the way of many island report has expired. Does the member for nations in the Pacific and see their culture Fadden wish to move a motion in connection and lifestyle destroyed by pandering to the with the report to enable it to be debated on a tourist dollar. Perhaps there is a balance, but future occasion? forget tourism until the law and order issue is Mr JULL (Fadden)—I move: solved. That the House take note of the report. If only a portion of the money that has I seek leave to continue my remarks later. been spent on defence and the defence forces had been spent in building up an adequately Leave granted. trained and properly paid police force, per- Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER—In accor- haps the law and order issue would not be dance with standing order 102B, the debate the problem it is today. Even though the dis- is adjourned. The resumption of the debate sident PNG defence force members have will be made an order of the day for the next handed in weapons, the government is yet to sitting and the member will have leave to respond to their concerns. Perhaps in the continue speaking when the debate is re- early days of independence too many people sumed. in Australia and PNG wanted the PNG de- CRIMINAL ASSETS RECOVERY BILL fence force to resemble the Australian Army; 2001 a price for this is being paid today. The re- cent defence force uprising, encouraged by First Reading some well-known politicians, has been bad Bill presented by Mr Kerr. for the Prime Minister’s image and authority, Mr KERR (Denison) (1.00 p.m.)—On 22 and disastrous for PNG’s international February, the Leader of the Opposition, Kim standing. It has eroded the government’s Beazley, announced Labor’s 10-point plan to standing in the community. Bougainville has tackle Australia’s illicit drugs problem. One been a drain on PNG finances for too long. of the policies which Labor committed itself Hopefully this costly conflict in financial to in this comprehensive and wide-ranging terms and human life will soon reach a strategy was the introduction of a civil con- peaceful conclusion. fiscation scheme for the proceeds of crime. I agree that if the role of the committee is Today Labor is re-introducing the Criminal to be meaningful the International Monetary Assets Recovery Bill, which establishes a Agreement Act should be amended to enable civil confiscation scheme for the proceeds of the committee to be involved before future serious crime. The bill allows assets to be loans are executed. Effective parliamentary seized if it can be proved that, on the balance scrutiny of the loans need not delay the loan of probabilities, they are the proceeds of approval process. Too many bureaucrats drug trafficking, fraud, money laundering, convince ministers that security will delay extortion, tax evasion, illegal gambling or other serious, organised crimes. The bill also, 26110 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 however, contains a number of important tive and effective strategies and which would safeguards of civil liberties, and provisions embarrass the government when compared to for the protection of innocent parties. its lack of action in relation to these mat- The introduction of a civil confiscation ters—latched onto a civil confiscation scheme for the proceeds of crime has been scheme. That might have seemed to the on the Labor agenda for over two years. It minister to be a ‘cunning plan’—as the was first considered in the discussion paper shadow Treasurer has described some of the on illicit drugs released by the Leader of the actions of the Treasurer in bringing together Opposition in April 1999. The opposition legislation on tariffs in relation to beer prices first introduced this bill over twelve months and petrol—but the ‘cunning plan’ failed to ago, in March 2000. At that time, I intro- acknowledge that the civil confiscation duced the legislation as an exposure draft, scheme had been opposition policy for two with the anticipation that the government years and that we had already done more would become involved in a discussion of than just talk about it: we had acted and we the need for such legislation as an essential had introduced legislation. plank in the strategy to dismantle organised The minister in his attempt to torpedo the crime. The government, however, did not opposition’s statement—which was far respond to the bill. It did not suggest broader than a response based simply on amendments; it did not oppose the bill; it did toughening up law enforcement and went not express support. It simply failed to ac- also to the need to provide much more effec- knowledge the importance of a significant tive health strategies, rehabilitation strategies piece of legislation in the struggle to inca- and strategies that go to the fundamental is- pacitate those who profit from trafficking in sues that concern our community about the drugs or from other serious organised crime use of drugs—simply said that he would take to the cost of the most vulnerable groups in the idea of a civil confiscation scheme to our society, and it refused to bring on the bill cabinet and would ask for it to be endorsed. for debate. With the passage of time, the bill It should be seen for what it is: the govern- was removed from the parliamentary Notice ment following the agenda set by Labor— Paper. but, importantly, declining to give any cre- I introduced the exposure bill in response dence to the fact that that policy has had a to the Australian Law Reform Commission’s long period of public exposure—and seeking Report No. 87, Confiscation that counts: a to take credit for the work of others. Since review of the Proceeds of Crime Act. That the minister made his statement, we have report was tabled in March 1999, so it is now heard nothing further—no suggestion that over two years since the Australian Law Re- the matter has gone to cabinet, no indication form Commission recommended the intro- of what cabinet might have decided if the duction of a civil confiscation scheme. The matter was taken to it, no legislation emerg- government has not responded in that period ing from it. So today I am reintroducing the of time, and it declined to support Labor Criminal Assets Recovery Bill, which Kim legislation introducing such a scheme when Beazley and I are calling on the government it had the opportunity to do so. The only time to support—to support the Australian Labor that this issue has exercised the mind of the Party in its legislation, which is targeted at government was on the day that Labor an- attacking those criminals who make their life nounced its illicit drugs policy. Having seen profits from serious organised crime, and to a story in the press that Labor would be an- give us an effective piece of law enforcement nouncing its 10-point plan to tackle Austra- legislative machinery designed to confiscate lia’s illicit drugs problem, the Minister for the profits of crime and to deal effectively Justice and Customs at the time, Senator with drug trafficking. Labor has expressed Ellison, scrambling around for something to support for this scheme for a long period of say to distract attention from Labor’s pol- time while the government has sat idle. It has icy—which he knew would contain innova- failed to turn its rhetoric on the day of the Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26111 launch of Labor’s drugs policy into action. defines serious crime as criminal conduct And so today, for the second time, the oppo- which, if a person was convicted in criminal sition is doing the work that the government proceedings, would result in the offender ought to have undertaken and is presenting being liable to serve five or more years of parliament with a bill which follows the re- imprisonment. This scheme is aimed at the sponsibility that we have accepted and for serious players in the criminal world, at which we have done the work to implement. those people whose profession is crime and The Prime Minister and his ministers are whose income is generated by criminal ac- only talking the talk at the moment, saying tivity. that they have no truck with dealers and no Under the current laws, those who are apologies for what they describe as a tough caught using drugs or selling small amounts stance. The problem is that the Howard gov- are punished, but those who organise the ernment on this issue has been only full of trade and benefit from the proceeds of the words. When it comes to legislating to strip illegal trade are often able to get away with drug dealers of illegally gained assets, they it. Labor is intent on redressing this ineffec- have been all talk and no action. I say: don’t tive and inequitable approach. Our policy is talk that talk if you won’t walk the walk. to shift users into rehabilitation, and to focus Here is the legislation to strip drug dealers of law enforcement on permanently disabling the profits of misery. The challenge for the the serious criminals. The men and women government is to support that legislation. behind organised crime are too often able to In the words of the Australian Law Re- distance themselves from the individual in- form Commission, the present conviction stances of criminal activity which generate based regime fails to meet either the objec- vast sums of money. This is a source of frus- tives of the Proceeds of Crime Act or public tration for law enforcement agencies: while policy expectations. The bill adopts one of they are able to identify profits of illegal ac- the major recommendations of the Australian tivity, and the person or organisation which Law Reform Commission report by estab- is benefiting from these profits, sophisticated lishing a civil confiscation scheme for the financial transactions and money laundering proceeds of criminal activity. The principal schemes often mean that it is difficult to objects of the bill are, firstly, to provide for identify beyond reasonable doubt the par- the confiscation of a person’s property if the ticular crime from which each amount of court finds it to be more probable than not money or property stemmed. that the person has engaged in serious crime Recent years have seen increasing judicial related activities; secondly, to enable the and legislative recognition of the principle proceeds of serious crime related activities to that the law should not allow the retention by be recovered as a debt due to the Crown; any person, whether at the expense of an and, thirdly, to enable law enforcement individual or society at large, of the profits of authorities effectively to identify and recover serious unlawful conduct. The civil confis- property. cation regime that I am introducing today is Might I indicate also that Labor has made built upon this principle. The principles in it plain that it intends the proceeds that this bill are modelled largely on the regime emerge from this legislation not to go into applying in New South Wales. Under the general revenue, as is the case resulting from bill, the Director of Public Prosecutions may the current government abolishing the trust apply to a court for a restraining order in funds previously in operation to deal with the respect of persons suspected of having en- proceeds of crime, but rather to make certain gaged in a serious crime related activity. A that the proceeds of crime go back into the restraining order is an order that you cannot health budget for rehabilitation purposes and deal with that property or dispose of it while to law enforcement to make sure that our law the order applies. That means that that prop- enforcement capacity is enhanced. The bill erty can be held and then an application made to the court so that it can be forfeited. 26112 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

If a restraining order is in force, the Director any dependant, the court may order that the of Public Prosecutions may apply for an as- dependant is entitled to be paid a specified sets confiscation order. That order must be amount out of the proceeds of sale, as long made if a court finds it more probable than as the dependant did not play a part in the not that the person was, at any time not more illegal activity. than six years before the making of the ap- The measures proposed in the Criminal plication, engaged in a serious crime related Assets Recovery Bill 2000 are tough meas- activity. The effect of such an order is that ures but they are balanced and they will im- the property is forfeited to the Crown and prove the powers that our law enforcement vests in the official trustee on behalf of the agencies require to address serious crime Crown. It is then sold and the money paid while also retaining civil liberties safeguards. into the proceeds account. For those individuals in our community who The Director of Public Prosecutions can use drugs and suffer problems, our first task also apply for a proceeds assessment order, is to ensure that we address their health, so- requiring a person to pay to the Common- cial and rehabilitation needs. That is, we wealth an amount assessed as the value of must make certain that those who are the proceeds derived from an illegal activity that victims of crime are treated as victims and took place in the last six years. Again, the not treated in a way which is draconian. test would be on the balance of probabilities. But we have to make sure that those who Anyone who can show that their assets have are sponsors of and those who are organisers a legitimate source would, of course, be able of serious crime are able to be dealt with by to rebut the claim made by the Director of our law enforcement agencies and that our Public Prosecutions. But the bill will frus- law enforcement agencies have the appropri- trate criminal attempts to hide the proceeds ate tools they need. Legislation to attack of crime through arrangements such as trusts, profits of serious criminals is once again be- placing assets under the control of a com- fore the parliament. I say to the government: pany or transferring the proceeds of a prop- put criminals’ money to work in the interests erty to someone else. If a court finds that that of the community and put your efforts be- other person still has effective control of the hind this legislation. Support it; make sure assets, it can be recovered. The bill also that it goes to a parliamentary committee for grants necessary information gathering pow- proper examination, but do not put it away in ers to the authorities to give effect to the cold storage as you did before. Do not pre- scheme. tend that this problem will go away. Respond These are serious powers but they are bal- to the Labor Party on this initiative which we anced by provisions which ensure that the are bringing forward on behalf of all the interests of innocent parties are safeguarded. community. (Time expired) For example, an interest in property which Bill read a first time. includes money and property obtained through criminal activity would be immune Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Nehl)—In from confiscation if it was acquired for suffi- accordance with sessional order 104A, the cient consideration without knowledge and second reading will be made an order of the in circumstances that would not arouse rea- day for the next sitting. sonable suspicion that the interest was AUSTRALIAN BILL OF RIGHTS BILL tainted, if it was acquired as the distribution 2001 of an estate of a deceased person or if it was First Reading acquired by a person as payment of reason- Bill presented by Dr Theophanous. able legal expenses. There are also provi- sions to ensure that the dependants of a per- Dr THEOPHANOUS (Calwell) (1.16 son whose property has been forfeited are p.m.)—This Australian Bill of Rights Bill given protection. If a court is satisfied that 2001 is for an act relating to the human the order will operate to cause hardship to rights and fundamental freedoms of all Aus- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26113 tralians and all people in Australia, and for bills of rights of the UK, New Zealand, Can- related purposes. This is the first time in 12 ada and South Africa. We have tried to in- years that such a bill has been presented to corporate the finest thinking in relation to the this House, and it is long overdue for consid- philosophy of democracy and practice of eration and implementation by this parlia- human rights. ment. The bill has been extensively researched It is a reflection of the current state of our for a number of months, including with ma- liberal democracy that Australia is one of jor assistance from my staff, Josh Bihary and very few western nations that has not suc- Lauren Joffe, the Parliamentary Library’s Dy cessfully entrenched the protection of inter- Spooner and, from the Clerks Office, nationally recognised human rights, through Claressa Surtees. Included with the bill are either legislative or constitutional means. 17 pages of explanatory memorandum. The Over the past 30 years there have been bill I am putting forward today has signifi- several attempts to implement such a bill of cant similarities to that drafted by the Aus- rights in Australia. Between 1973 and 1988, tralian Democrats, however, there are also there were four different failed attempts at important differences from their original the creation of a bill of rights by the Austra- draft, which we understand is to be radically lian Labor Party, all of which were opposed amended. by the coalition parties. However, since that The Australian Bill of Rights Bill 2001 time, the issue has generally been aban- begins with a guarantee of rights and free- doned. One reason for this is that, as most doms which proclaims that every person is political commentators have observed, there ‘entitled to rights and freedoms without dis- has been a marked movement towards tinction’, and is divided into key sections authoritarianism and away from human such as guarantee of rights and freedoms rights issues in the last few years. (division 1), fundamental freedoms (division In contrast to previous attempts, this bill 2), equality of rights (division 3), civil and has been drafted in an extremely simple and democratic rights (division 4), economic and intelligible manner. The fundamental objects social rights (division 5), and legal rights of this bill are to promote universal respect (division 6). for human rights and to enhance the dignity There are 43 articles which embody such of the human person and equality of oppor- principles as: article 6, freedom to have or tunity of all as paramount objectives of this adopt a religion or belief; article 7, right of legislature. Thus, one goal of this bill is to peaceful assembly; article 10, rights of in- give effect to certain provisions of interna- digenous peoples; article 11, rights of mi- tional treaties which Australia has been nority groups; article 14, freedom from tor- forthright in supporting on the international ture and inhuman treatment; article 15, free- stage, but has never incorporated into do- dom from slavery, servitude and forced la- mestic legislation. bour; article 18, rights of the child; article A large part of this bill is based on the bill 24, right to live in a safe society; article 26, introduced into this House by the then Labor right to education; and so on. Attorney-General, Lionel Bowen, in 1985, These articles, if implemented, would, by and embodies within it the fundamental prin- their very nature, require an expansion in the ciples of the International Covenant of Civil powers of the Human Rights and Equal Op- and Political Rights. In this new bill we also portunity Commission. This has been dealt draw on the International Covenant on Eco- with in part 3 of the bill. nomic, Social and Cultural Rights, and, for Section 10 of this bill provides new and the first time, seek to introduce social and important provisions with respect to the economic rights into the domestic human power of enforcement in human rights. On rights agenda. In drafting this bill, we have the one hand the bill does not impose penal- also learnt some lessons from the various ties on individual persons in either civil or 26114 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 criminal proceedings. On the other hand, The adequate standard of living includes suf- groups of persons, or incorporated bodies, ficient food and water, clothing and housing, while they will not be liable to criminal pro- access to health services, and access to social ceedings, can be liable for civil actions if security. It requires the Commonwealth and they infringe human rights. In particular, an state governments to take reasonable legisla- aggrieved person will be able to take action, tive measures to provide for the progressive after consultation with the Human Rights realisation of each of these rights. The right and Equal Opportunity Commission, to to individual and collective development achieve an injunction to prevent the opera- includes support for people to take part in tion of a governmental decision that is con- cultural life, and to enjoy the benefits of sci- trary to the bill of rights. entific progress and its applications. This therefore extends into practice the One reason why all comparable Western theory that a bill of rights should act primar- nations have a bill of rights is because they ily as a shield, rather than a sword. On the have accepted that it is an essential element other hand, it needs to be more than a tooth- of a mature and functioning democracy. In less tiger. On balance, this bill will serve to other words, the very idea of democracy in- protect individuals and minority groups from volves the recognition of certain inalienable discrimination and inequity—while at the rights for all persons. The concept of rights same time allowing for a free society. has been embodied in all the philosophical Furthermore, as the bill is statutory, rather discussions of the meaning of modern de- than constitutional, it ensures that the judici- mocracy. John Stuart Mill identified the es- ary cannot overexercise its mandate, as the sence of modern democracy as being inter- parliament will still have a fundamental ele- twined with fundamental human rights. As ment of control. In overall terms, the bill will he said in his book On Liberty: act as a social charter for the Australian Society can and does execute its own man- community to live by and respect. dates: and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with which One of the new and substantial improve- it ought not to meddle, it practises a social tyr- ments on previous bills is the introduction of anny more formidable than many kinds of politi- social and economic rights into the agenda. cal oppression, since, though not usually upheld Although these rights are part of United Na- by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means tions treaties which Australia has signed, of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the there has not been any previous attempt to details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. incorporate them into legislation. When I In this eloquent passage, Mill identified the was a parliamentary secretary in the Keating absolute and crucial need for rights and the government, I produced many papers on the guarantee of rights in the constitution and need for social and economic rights in this laws of any country that is a genuine democ- country. This is because they are an essential racy. It is imperative that this government element of the very concept of social justice, work to achieve the ideals established in the and very important to social justice strategies philosophy and to protect the minority for any humane government. groups from which this nation was forged. In this bill, I have included the right to the This can only be achieved through the im- protection of property, to a decent standard plementation of a bill of rights. of living, to live in a safe society, to adequate Another crucial reason for a bill of rights child care, to work, to education, and in gen- is the need for Australians to show that they eral to individual and collective develop- have a genuine commitment to the United ment. These are based on the UN charter, Nations Universal Declaration of Human and are also supported by the general argu- Rights. In modern-day global politics, when ments in my 1994 book Understanding so- discrimination and human rights breaches cial justice: an Australian perspective. There occur, the United Nations has been forthright are two that need to be further explained. in its public comment and criticism. In this Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26115 regard, Australia has committed itself to the freedom from discrimination on the basis of United Nations, and this commitment carries sex or race, and, while the Constitution has certain responsibilities. Australia has sup- been interpreted to protect freedom of politi- ported and ratified a number of UN treaties, cal communication, it lacks a more general for example, the Universal Declaration of right of free speech. The Constitution does Human Rights, the UN Covenant on Civil not contain an express guarantee of the right and Political Rights, the International Cove- to vote, nor does it even mention the word nant on Economic, Social and Cultural ‘democracy’. Rights, the treaty on racial discrimination Some critics of a bill of rights actually be- and the treaty on the rights of the child. Un- lieve that it undermines democracy. In a re- fortunately, this formal commitment has not cent submission to the Standing Committee been accompanied by concrete action by this on Law and Justice inquiry into a NSW bill government. It is a tragedy that the govern- of rights, the NSW Premier Bob Carr ment recently ceased cooperation with the claimed that a bill of rights would undermine bodies that were forged from the UN human the role of the parliament. However, Mr rights treaties. Carr’s argument does not in any way allow Furthermore, the government now seeks for such a thing as the tyranny of the major- to abolish even the limited reference to the ity. The judgment of a parliament can often external power, which has been used to give be oppressive against certain minority groups international treaties some weight in the and individuals, and therefore take rights courts, and therefore provide some human away from the groups it is elected to protect. rights to Australians. The Administrative One of the other main arguments against a Decisions (Effect of International Instru- bill of rights is that it is unnecessary. This is ments) Bill 1999—sometimes known as the so far from the truth in Australia that one Teoh bill—is intended to abolish the ability would have to be blind not to see the desper- of the courts to act on the legitimate expec- ate need we have for such a bill. Former con- tation that the treaties apply to Australian servative Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser has law. In his second reading speech argument highlighted this fact. Mr Fraser said recently: for this bill, the Attorney-General refers to Through much of my political life I accepted the claim that: the view of noted lawyers, that our system of law, In passing this legislation, the parliament will also derived from Britain and the development of be reasserting its proper role in changing Austra- common law best protected the human rights of lian law to implement treaties. individuals. I now believe that our own system However, if the government is concerned has so patently failed to protect the ‘rights’ of that Australian parliaments should be the Aboriginals that we should look once again at the ones to legislate on human rights questions, establishment of a bill of rights in Australia. it should support this bill, or introduce its He now understands that the formal protec- own bill of rights. If the issue is one of Aus- tion of every citizen’s rights is of paramount tralian sovereignty on human rights issues, importance, especially considering the slow then let the government show goodwill by pace of the process of reconciliation, the supporting a bill of rights in this centenary stolen generation, and the unacceptable year. treatment of asylum seekers. One of the main arguments used by oppo- Although formally in Australia we are all nents of an Australian bill of rights is that the committed to a society based on equal rights Constitution and the common law protect and treatment, in practice we have many people’s rights sufficiently. However, this is cases of discrimination against people on the not true. Upon investigation, it is clear that basis of race, ethnic background and relig- there are very few rights listed in the Con- ious preference. Article 11 of this bill is thus stitution. Thus, the Australian Constitution of crucial importance. It is headed ‘Rights of does not include anything amounting to a Minority Groups’ and it states: 26116 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

Persons who belong to an ethnic, religious or CUSTOMS TARIFF AMENDMENT linguistic minority have the right, in community (PETROL TAX CUT) BILL (No. 2) 2001 with other members of their own group, to enjoy their own culture, to profess and practise their First Reading own religion, or to use their own language.” Bill presented by Mr Charles. This clause is of crucial importance if the Bill read a first time. development of Australia as a multicultural Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER—In accor- society is to proceed, for there is no question dance with sessional order 104A, the second that one of the greatest inhibitors of this de- reading will be made an order of the day for velopment has been, and continues to be, the next sitting. direct and indirect discrimination against people because of their racial and cultural STATES’ CONTRIBUTION TO LOWER backgrounds. PETROL PRICES BILL 2001 I do not have time to refer to many of the First Reading other clauses in this bill, but I believe it is the Bill presented by Mr Charles. responsibility of all those within society con- Mr CHARLES (La Trobe) (1.33 p.m.)— cerned with human rights to ensure that a In 1997 the High Court found that a number parliamentary debate on a bill of rights oc- of state franchise laws, including laws which curs from a position of conscience rather effectively imposed excises on petroleum than party lines and thereby to treat seriously products, were in fact duties of excise and this need for an Australian bill of rights. Let outside state powers under the Australian us receive the ideas of all parliamentarians Constitution. In order to rescue the states and on this matter. Let us also see what the views territories, the Commonwealth government are of the government and the opposition on instituted three acts associated with franchise this very important bill or a similar bill in fees windfall tax in order to allow the Com- this year of Federation. I urge the parliament monwealth to collect these taxes on behalf of to support this bill and not miss this historic the states and return the revenue to them. opportunity. I present the explanatory memo- In 1999, as part of the A New Tax Sys- randum to this very important bill. (Time tem—ANTS—the Commonwealth brought expired) in A New Tax System (Commonwealth-State Bill read a first time. Financial Arrangements) Act 1999 to return Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Nehl)—In GST revenue to the states and territories and accordance with sessional order 104A, the including in division 2, other grants, section second reading will be made an order of the 14, Franchise fees windfall tax reimburse- day for the next sitting. ment payments. That section states in part: EXCISE TARIFF AMENDMENT Each State is to be paid by way of financial as- (PETROL TAX CUT) BILL (No. 2) 2001 sistance, for a GST year, a franchise fees windfall tax reimbursement payment ... First Reading My three bills have the purpose of proposing Bill presented by Mr Charles. a package of cuts to fuel taxes and to impose Mr CHARLES (La Trobe) (1.32 p.m.)—I an adjustment to the Commonwealth-state present the explanatory memorandum to the shares of revenue. The Excise Tariff Excise Tariff Amendment (Petrol Tax Cut) Amendment (Petrol Tax Cut) Bill (No. 2) Bill (No. 2) 2001. 2001 and the Customs Tariff Amendment Bill read a first time. (Petrol Tax Cut) Bill (No. 2) 2001 will have the effect of reducing the rates of excise for Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER—In accor- certain petroleum products and reducing the dance with sessional order 104A, the second rates of customs duty for the same petroleum reading will be made an order of the day for products. I propose that both be reduced by the next sitting. 1.5c a litre to give further relief to long- suffering motorists. These bills are similar to Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26117 bills recently passed by the House of Repre- Victorian government could discount petrol sentatives, and currently before the Senate, by up to 6.6c a litre. He said: giving effect to the Prime Minister’s promise State business franchise fees were struck down by to reduce petrol prices by a further 1.5c per the High Court in 1997 so the federal government litre. collected the 8.3 cents a litre charge on behalf of The States' Contribution to Lower Petrol the States. Under the GST deal with the states the Prices Bill 2001 proposes amendments to the federal government agreed to pay the states the equivalent of the 8.3 cents a litre. Victoria re- ANTS Act to adjust the Commonwealth- ceived $507 million in revenue replacements but state revenue shares. The purpose of the ad- refunded only $38 million to motorists. justment is to enable the Commonwealth to retain an amount of revenue equal to the total It is reported that Bracks said: excise forgone because of the fuel tax cuts. It We don’t collect any petrol taxes—it’s all now is proposed that the adjustment to revenue GST and we get back the GST. shares will take effect from any day on An AAP wire of 4 March reports New South which the ministerial council agrees to a Wales Premier Bob Carr as saying: Commonwealth proposal. An adjustment is The Prime Minister’s comments are crazy as the conditional on any determination under the states have not collected fuel excise taxes since act. It is my estimate that, in relation to 1997. That is a crazy policy and I don’t believe similar reductions in excise and customs for the people of Australia would expect us to do the same petroleum products, the impact of that. my proposed reductions on the 2000-01 While Western Australian Premier Geoff budget will be $140 million. However, as the Gallop said the Prime Minister’s idea was States’ Contribution to Lower Petrol Prices not practical, Queensland Premier Peter Bill 2001 proposes that the Commonwealth Beattie said that it was up to other states to retain an amount of revenue equal to the total match the $360 million a year subsidy his duty forgone, because of any reduction in the government pays to service stations to keep rates of excise and customs duty for certain fuel prices down. He is reported to have said: petroleum products, that impact for the We are the low tax state of Australia. I’m not Commonwealth will be nil. surprised the Prime Minister is highlighting an- On Friday, 2 March the Prime Minister other advantage of living in the sunshine state. announced a reduction of 1.5c a litre in fuel On Tuesday, 6 March, I proposed to the coa- excise. The Canberra Times reports that he lition party room that I introduce a private tried to spread some of the electoral pain of member’s bill—and everyone should under- petrol prices to the states, calling on them to stand that this is not a government bill but a return some of their fuel taxes to the motor- private member’s bill—to encourage the ists. An excellent idea, if you ask me, but the states to match the Commonwealth’s 1.5c a states, as reported in the Canberra Times, litre reduction in petrol costs at the pump. I fired back at the Prime Minister describing am introducing the measures because of the the idea as ‘a gimmick and not practical’. Mr public comments by the premiers blaming Howard said the states should also hand back the federal government for high petrol prices. some of the taxes they collect on petrol so Following the announcement of my inten- motorists would enjoy even cheaper fuel. tion, Mr Bracks is reported to have said that ‘We’ve done our bit; why don’t they do their he could not pass on petrol discounts because bit?’ he said. But the premiers were not the state received its petrol compensation ‘in overly impressed. Mr Bracks, the Victorian a bundle’ under the GST arrangements. I Premier, is reported to have told radio 3AW understand the Treasurer responded by say- that ‘the Prime Minister is obviously desper- ing that he would be happy to send Mr ate to try and rope in as many people as he Bracks a separate cheque for the amount of can into the decision he’s undertaken to cut windfall tax that Victoria receives from the fuel excise by 1.5c a litre’. An AAP wire of 6 federal government’s collection of petrol March quotes Mr Costello as saying that the excise on its behalf. 26118 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

I note for the record that the revenue re- tually the government introduced a similar placement for state franchise fees windfall bill and I got my way. tax is 8.35c per litre, that New South Wales I wish to thank the Deputy Clerk, Claressa retains 7.2c a litre, Victoria retains 6.6c a Surtees, for her excellent support and techni- litre and Western Australia retains 6.2c a cal help in drafting these bills. I call on the litre; therefore, all of those states clearly states to respond. I commend the bills to the have the capacity to match the Common- House. wealth largesse and reduce the price of petrol to motorists by another 1.5c per litre. These Bill read a first time. bills give the states the opportunity to match Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Nehl)—In the Commonwealth’s contribution and I call accordance with sessional order 104A, the on them to take up the challenge and to do second reading will be made an order of the so. Clearly they have the revenue to come to day for the next sitting. the party. STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS It is important in this debate to place be- Easter Message fore this House the record of the Labor Pre- Mr MURPHY (Lowe) (1.42 p.m.)—Over mier of Victoria on tax on fuel. I remind you the weekend, I discovered among my records that Premier Steve Bracks is a former adviser an editorial titled ‘Easter and the endless to the failed Cain and Kirner governments in conflict’. The editorial was published in the Victoria—the government that lost us the Good Friday edition of the Sydney Morning State Bank of Victoria. The Labor Treasurer, Herald a few years back and I kept it be- Rob Jolly, assured Victorians in no uncertain cause I thought it was a great piece of writ- terms that it was safe for them to keep their ing on the message of Easter. I would like to money in the Pyramid Building Society. As share part of the editorial with you as I be- we all know, Pyramid went belly up, causing lieve it holds an important message for all of thousands of Victorians to lose their savings. us in this House. It states: Then that same Treasurer, Rob Jolly, because of his foolishness, whacked a 3c a litre Every society needs people who live above and beyond self-interest, who remain faithful to the Pyramid tax on fuel to recover some of those truth whatever the cost. The Easter story shows funds for the depositors of Pyramid from the these standards can be achieved. There is a down- long-suffering motorists of Victoria. drag which pulls at every life. It is easy to slacken This is my third private member’s bill in within, to compromise, to rationalise. The inner the 11 years that I have been in this parlia- victory of Jesus strengthens the moral fortitude of ment. The first was to guarantee voluntary all who come near to Him. membership of association and, while the ……… Hawke government refused to have a vote on The whole Easter story shows the power which that bill, the principles of my private mem- comes when in any cause the means chosen are in ber’s bill were incorporated in the Workplace accord with the ends being served. Relations Act of 1996. My second private ……… member’s bill was in relation to section The Resurrection has permanently changed the 299(1)(d)(ii) of the now redundant Industrial world. The light which streams from the empty Relations Act which, in effect, said that a tomb falls across every life and every society. It person could not say anything naughty about reveals the basic instability of evil. In the endless an industrial relations commissioner or the conflict in our personal lives we can take heart. commission itself or they would have to pay The future belongs to the Kingdom of God. The a fine, go to jail, or both. The Hawke gov- God who raised Jesus from the dead will in the ernment also refused to vote on that bill but, end bring justice and freedom and peace to Vic- as a result of the High Court finding that that tory. section of the act was unconstitutional for Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish you, every mem- reasons of implied freedom of speech, even- ber of this House and their families and staff Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26119 a very happy Easter Day on Sunday, 15 seriously. The Internet cafe is a community April. asset. Not only will the youth learn new Education: Funding for Government skills but so also will their parents and Schools grandparents. For the past 12 years, the small club has been running youth initiatives on Mr LLOYD (Robertson) (1.44 p.m.)— behalf of the Rotary District 9670—RYPEN. Recently on 23 March, together with the In fact, next weekend it is conducting its state minister for education, John Aquilina, I 13th seminar and 32 year 10 students will be had the honour of representing Dr David attending. Two years ago, Reachout—a Kemp, the federal Minister for Education, youth suicide prevention initiative—spoke to Training and Youth Affairs, at the opening of the RYPEN seminar, and the idea of the new extensions to Tuggerah Public School. It community awareness initiative, the Internet was a wonderful day and something that Tug- cafe, was born. HunterTech—the Hunter’s gerah Public School had looked forward to IT&T consortium—was approached. They in for a long time. I would like to thank the turn approached CSC Australia in Canberra headmaster, Mr John Selwood, and the for some computer hardware. The Rotary school captains, Jonathan Parsons and Rhi- Club then mustered support from a number anne Hoffman, for their wonderful welcome of firms, including O’Neill’s Tyres, ARC and for the assistance of everyone on the day. Technical Services, Grace Bros, Hunterlink, It emphasises the support that the federal Integrity Network Solutions, Newdata government gives to state education, because Communications, PLE Contracting and TLE the extensions cost $4,171,000, of which Newcastle. The Hunter Institute of Technol- $3,835,000 was contributed directly by the ogy, through its outreach program, conducted federal government—that is, 91.4 per cent of the training. This extremely small club was the extensions were funded by the federal able to muster support from the community government and only eight per cent by the for the community, and the community of New South Wales government. It really Lake Macquarie will benefit. (Time expired) makes a mockery of the attacks by the Labor opposition and the Teachers Federation on Forde Electorate: Labor Candidate the federal government for not supporting Mrs ELSON (Forde) (1.47 p.m.)—Hon- state schools, particularly in New South ourable members will know that I have never Wales. Nothing could be further from the used this forum to be critical of other mem- truth. The federal government continues to bers of parliament and that I value the close pour money into the state school education working relationship I have had with local system. An increase of some 36 per cent or members of parliament from both sides of $561 million has been poured into the state politics. That is why it saddens me to bring education system by the federal government. to the attention of the House the under- (Time expired) handed tactics used last week by the Labor Shortland Electorate: Windale Police and candidate for Forde, Val Smith, together with Citizens Youth Club Internet Cafe the new Labor state member for Albert, Margaret Keech. Last week, Ms Smith was Ms HALL (Shortland) (1.45 p.m.)—Yes- featured in the local paper capitalising on a terday, I had the pleasure and honour of wit- pensioner who claimed to be disgruntled nessing a community at work. The Police with the CPI index of pensions. Ms Smith Citizens Youth Club at Windale opened an failed to tell the public that this lady is actu- Internet cafe to assist the youth and others in ally the state Labor member’s mother and an the community of Lake Macquarie to keep active campaigner for the Labor Party. Now, abreast of the IT era. The Internet cafe is a I have no problem with someone having a go project sponsored by the Rotary Club of at me about politics—that is part of the job— Bennetts Green, a club comprising 14 com- but they ought to be up front and honest. Ei- mitted locals who have taken the Rotary ther way, the local public deserves better. theme—create awareness and take action— The people of Forde do not want to see po- 26120 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 litical party game playing and cheap media for Telstra to develop equitable policies and shots used to try to win a few votes. Further, criteria to ensure that it does not discriminate Ms Smith ought to be ashamed of herself for amongst customers in similar geographic totally misrepresenting the facts on the in- circumstances. It also calls on Telstra to es- dexation of pensions. As someone who tablish fair and equitable call zones and works at Centrelink, she should be fully charging systems for customers in similar aware that the extra CPI increase was geographic situations in the Melbourne met- awarded well in advance of the GST impact. ropolitan area. (Time expired) There is no clawback. Nothing whatsoever Mackenzie, Mr Ian Seaforth has been taken off pensioners. In fact, pen- sioners have had the benefit of the increase, Mr St CLAIR (New England) (1.50 which would have been due now, for many p.m.)—I rise to pay tribute to the late Mr Ian months. I am very disappointed that in this Seaforth Mackenzie from my hometown of case not only have Labor run a scare cam- Guyra. Mr Mackenzie was 85 years of age paign to frighten the local pensioners but and was a pioneer in pastoral achievements they have done it in a very dishonest and in the New England region. Ian’s father died underhanded way. The local residents de- at a very early age, and Ian was brought home from school to run the property. He serve much better than that. was one of the original pioneers of aerial Isaacs Electorate: Telstra STD Zoning superphosphate and seeding in the region. He Ms CORCORAN (Isaacs) (1.48 p.m.)— also commenced the breeding of Hereford In March last year, Telstra announced a re- cattle which, over time, was able to be con- view of its zoning arrangements. The results verted to a Poll Hereford stud by using of this review were promised by the end of polled bulls. He was one of the earliest pro- last year but to date we are still waiting. ducers to use performance figures, breeding Amongst those waiting with great interest 19.5-micron wool merinos and achieving the are the residents of Cranbourne. The reason top average price with Schute Bell during the for this interest is that Cranbourne residents early 1970s. Glenshiel, Ian’s original prop- and businesses are currently paying STD erty, was 4,000 acres when he took it over. rates for their phone calls. Although Cran- Over the next few years, he accumulated a bourne pays STD rates, other areas further further 2,500 acres. His services to the com- from Melbourne than Cranbourne do not. munity involved Rotary and the Guyra Show The residents and businesses of Cranbourne Society of which he was patron for 70 years. are contributing far more than their fair share He was a member of the Guyra Bowling to Telstra’s profits. They are paying far more Club, a life member of the Guyra Golf Club, than others for their day to day living and a member of the Historical Society, Branch business communication needs. This has President of the Guyra Graziers Association, been a longstanding issue, and it is time that and a member of the New South Wales it was fixed. I understand that part of the rea- Farmers. He was a council member of The son Cranbourne is an STD zone is historical, Armidale School, a member of the RSL, a but that is no reason for the situation to re- patron of Guyra rugby, a judge at the Armi- main today. Cranbourne is clearly very much dale AJC, and a past president and member part of Melbourne. The people of Cran- of the Armidale Picnic Races. He continued bourne are determined to leave no option to have a love of rugby and horse racing unexplored in their efforts to get a more eq- throughout his life. Ian served with the 12th uitable zoning arrangement and have signed Light Horse during World War II. (Time ex- a petition to draw the government’s attention pired) to this issue. I am very pleased to be able to Banking: Services help the process along today by tabling this petition. The petition has been signed by no Mr RIPOLL (Oxley) (1.52 p.m.)—There fewer than 3,431 people and has been certi- are few subject matters in Australian politics fied by the Deputy Clerk. The petition calls or social debate that would raise as many Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26121 concerns as the operation and profits of the Secondly, the Cabin Communities Land- banking sector. So much has this been the care Group are building a walking track on case that the big banks have finally sat up the Royal National Park coast between Bun- and listened to the cries of ordinary people deena and Werong, where there has been who are hurting under the weight of fees and significant erosion in the past. Signage will charges—charges forced upon them by or- also be installed to educate visitors about the ganisations that make large profits, consis- local environment. Thirdly, the Bundeena tently reduce services, close down branches, Reserve Bushcare Group will rehabilitate the reduce access and basically do everything in foreshore of Bundeena Reserve, which also their power to force change on those not ca- contains remnants of Sutherland shire’s litto- pable or yet willing to fully adopt those ral rainforest. Large areas of asparagus fern, changes. a significant pest in the area, will be re- In a huge turnaround recently, the banks moved. Finally, the Silver Beach Dunecare now claim that they can provide no account Group in Kurnell are looking to rehabilitate keeping fees; six free non-deposit transac- the vegetation of Bonna Point Reserve, tions per month, including up to three over which contains remnants of Kurnell dune the counter withdrawals; unlimited free de- forest, an endangered ecological community. posits; no minimum monthly balance; and— The remnants will be fenced off and weeded what do you know?—three months of con- to encourage natural regeneration. The sultation before closing down more planted areas of the reserve will be weeded, branches. Well, hooray to the banks for being mulched and extended. oh so generous that they would provide these One of our great assets in Cook is our most basic of services to those most in beautiful coastline. It includes some of the need—services which should always have most beautiful beaches along the coast of been maintained. If there is anything that is New South Wales. The work being done by true when it comes to banks, it is that they these volunteers is extremely important. will take your money—you now have no Congratulations to all the volunteers on their choice because of electronic systems and hard work and for receiving much deserved deposits—but if you want your money back government support. (Time expired) you must pay for the privilege and dare not Lalor Electorate do it in person. If you have very little money, you are penalised for this fact. My message Ms GILLARD (Lalor) (1.54 p.m.)—In the to the banks is clear and simple: if you do adjournment debate on Thursday in this not adopt a social charter and change, change House, the member for La Trobe claimed to will be forced upon you. represent the largest metropolitan electorate in Victoria. It is not my intention to encour- Cook Electorate: Coastcare Projects age a ‘mine is bigger than yours’ style debate Mr BAIRD (Cook) (1.53 p.m.)—I rise to- in this House; I will leave that to those male day to congratulate groups taking part in four members of this House who have already worthy environmental projects in my elec- made it an art form. But I think we should torate that have received a combined total of note for the record that I represent, in the over $35,000 in government funding under form of the electorate of Lalor, the largest the Coastcare scheme. The first is the Lilli metropolitan electorate in Victoria, being Pilli Bushcare Group, who I visited last Fri- some 653 square kilometres. The member for day. They are carrying out bush regeneration La Trobe noted that electorates like his still and removing rubbish from the last remnants struggle to attract doctors, dentists and other of Sutherland shire littoral rainforest in Lilli health professionals and that electorates like Pilli Reserve. The group’s work will reduce his have problems with higher education in- erosion, improve access to the foreshore and frastructure. My electorate shares these con- encourage people to visit and enjoy the re- cerns, though perhaps the member for La serve. Trobe might like to return to this House and 26122 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 explain why these things continue to be an ticularly the decision of the National Austra- issue as we enter the sixth year of the How- lia Bank to close the branch at the Marsden ard government. Park shopping centre. That branch services Dunkley Electorate customers both in the seat of Rankin and also in the seat of Forde. I would hope that the Mr BILLSON (Dunkley) (1.55 p.m.)— member for Forde would join with me in Friday was a great day in the electorate of urging the National Australia Bank to retain Dunkley. We were fortunate to have a visit that branch in the Marsden Park shopping from the Prime Minister, and it was an ex- centre. It serves hundreds of pensioners who tremely successful one. We started the day cannot do what the National Australia Bank with an inspection of the Dunkley inter- wants them to do, and that is get on a bus change. For those opposite who have gained and travel to Browns Plains, which is a very an afterlife interest in the Scoresby transport considerable distance away. I ask the mem- corridor, that is where the transport corridor ber for Forde to urge the Minister for Finan- intersects with the Frankston freeway. I was cial Services and Regulation to use whatever able to show the Prime Minister first hand influence he can in getting the National the importance of that project to the commu- Australia Bank to recognise its social obli- nity I represent and to the broader Morning- gations. It has put out a charter—that is ton Peninsula, and why we have been press- maybe an encouraging start—but we want to ing for this project to get support from a see action, not just words. I want the Na- number of levels of government for some tional Australia Bank to take its social obli- time. Sadly, the Victorian Bracks govern- gations seriously and reconsider the decision ment still is struggling to come to grips with to close that branch. It is very important as a this important infrastructure project, and, focus for customers for over-the-counter despite what Minister Batchelor has been service, and that service will not be provided saying for weeks, we still do not have a con- by expecting people to get on a bus and go crete proposal from the Victorian govern- all the way to Browns Plains or other loca- ment to assist the advocacy being undertaken tions. In the seat of Forde, a Westpac branch by me, Mr Peter Nugent and Mr Phil Barresi, has closed in Waterford. I expect the member who have been campaigning for this project for Forde to be more vigilant in urging the for some time. banks to recognise that they have social obli- After that, we were fortunate to be in- gations and to keep these branches open. volved with the Cube 37 Community Arts (Time expired) Centre opening, a federation community Leisel Jones project that again was ridiculed by the Labor Party, particularly Senator Faulkner in the Tarnee White Senate. They were all there in numbers—all Ms GAMBARO (Petrie) (1.58 p.m.)—I there in spades—to be a part of that success- would like to congratulate Olympic star ful project. At the end of the day, we con- Leisel Jones, who competed in the swim- cluded with a community volunteer after- ming titles in Hobart recently and is rising to noon tea, where the Prime Minister and bigger and better things all the time. She en- about 400 guests heard from Jill Hunter, gaged in the 100 metres breast stroke. She from the Frankston and District Netball As- was a little disappointed; her personal best sociation; Mike Waixel, a volunteer coordi- was one minute and 7.49 seconds, and she nator from CFA District 8; and Bill Coventry. reached one minute and 7.96 seconds. But They spoke about what it means to be a vol- she really has the true makings of a great unteer. It was a very successful day. (Time sports star. At the event, there was also an- expired) other Redcliffe girl, Tarnee White. I know Banking: Branch Closures that they will continue to rise to bigger and better things. Redcliffe has a lot to be proud Mr EMERSON (Rankin) (1.57 p.m.)—I of. The girls did a wonderful job in the too wish to talk about bank closures, par- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26123

Olympics. They will be competing in the Australian Bureau of Statistics. I understand world championships in Japan in July. I and that today’s outcome exceeded market ex- many of the people in the Redcliffe Penin- pectations. The Leader of the Opposition sula would like to wish them both very well invites me to listen to the people of Australia in their quests ahead, particularly against on this issue. The people of Australia are still gold medallists in that event. spending, and the reason why the people of Mr SPEAKER—Order! It being 2 p.m., Australia are spending is that we went ahead the time for statements by members has ex- with the personal tax cuts that you did not pired. want us to go ahead with. In fact, about a year ago the Leader of the Opposition was QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE accusing us of overheating the economy. A Economy: Growth year ago he was running around saying, ‘It is Mr BEAZLEY (2.00 p.m.)—My question terrible, they are overheating the economy.’ is to the Prime Minister. Have you seen the Now he is running around talking the econ- results of the Australian Financial Review’s omy down. The reality is that the Leader of latest survey showing that the overwhelming the Opposition can do no better at question majority of economists believe the imple- time than react to the headlines in this mentation of the new tax system is the most morning’s newspapers. important factor behind the economy’s slow- Families: Tax Compensation down, well ahead of factors you like to point Mr CHARLES (2.03 p.m.)—My question to such as interest rates, international factors without notice is to the Prime Minister. and oil prices? Prime Minister, why won’t Prime Minister, has your attention been you admit what the rest of the country al- drawn to claims that the compensation under ready knows: that your GST has had a big the new tax system for large families is in- negative impact on economic growth? adequate? Mr HOWARD—I do not think the rest of Mr HOWARD—My attention has been the country is saying that. Certainly, the con- drawn to such allegations. It may be that sumers of Australia are not saying it. Un- there is some remarkable coincidence, but doubtedly, and much to the chagrin and the there was an article in the Melbourne Sunday disappointment of the opposition, today’s Herald Sun yesterday referring to a family, retail trade figures would have been an the Zank family, and there was also a state- enormous disappointment to the opposition, ment released by the member for Lilley yes- because they were very strong and buoyant terday that referred to the Zank family. It and will not afford the Leader of the Opposi- may be that the member for Lilley had spo- tion another opportunity to talk down the ken to the journalist at the newspaper before Australian economy. That is what the Leader the article was written, but it is a free country of the Opposition does. and he is perfectly entitled to do that. It The Leader of the Opposition invites me would have been helpful if the journalist to respond to the judgment of the commu- writing the article had bothered to make nity. The consumers of Australia express some inquiries about the veracity of what he views through the dollars they spend in the was told by the honourable member for Lil- shops of Australia. If you look at the dollars ley. Naturally, I do not know all of the par- that have been spent in the shops of Austra- ticular circumstances of the Zank family— lia, Mr Speaker, you will find that the retail and I do not presume to make judgments on trade increased by 1.2 per cent in February, their particular circumstances—but I have to be 8.1 per cent higher than this time last sought generic advice in relation to families year. The increase in February is the third that are in a similar situation, and that ge- consecutive increase in retail spending, fol- neric advice is quite interesting. lowing a one per cent increase in December I have been informed that both the Sunday and a 1.1 per cent increase in January, both Herald Sun and the member for Lilley are of which have been revised upwards by the 26124 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 wrong about the compensation provided to a ... the results have now moved relentlessly family in similar circumstances—that is, one downwards so that many of the outcomes are now main breadwinner earning $30,000 a year the lowest that this survey has recorded in its ten with seven dependent children aged under year history. 11. That was the material supplied in the Treasurer, given that your own cheer squad newspaper article. I have been told by the has recognised the problems your GST is Department of Family and Community causing— Services that a family in these circumstances Mr Charles—Mr Speaker, I raise a point receives a tax cut of $17.34 a week, not of order. I draw your attention to the fact that $13.50, as reported by the Sunday Herald this is question time, not ‘statement time’. Sun; additional family payments of $55.12 a Mr SPEAKER—The member for La week, not $14 a week, as reported by the Trobe will resume his seat. I had asked the Sunday Herald Sun, or $2.50 a child per Deputy Leader of the Opposition to come to week, as claimed by the member for Lilley; his question. He had in fact then turned to a and total compensation of $72.46 a week, or question. The question is now longer than $3,768 a year. According to my advice, this would normally be the case. I ask him to represents an increase of eight per cent in wind the question up. disposable income. I have also been advised that a family in these circumstances receives Mr CREAN—I will, Mr Speaker. Treas- in aggregate—not as an increase, of course— urer, given that your own cheer squad has family assistance of $445.90 a week, or recognised the problems that your GST is $23,187 a year. If that advice of mine is cor- causing, when will you start listening rather rect—and it is based on advice obtained from than looking for someone else to blame? the department—then once again the mem- Mr COSTELLO—Mr Speaker, because ber for Lilley has been caught red-handed of the noise I did not hear the full question, conducting a fear campaign. He tried to scare but I do not ask that it be read again because the pensioners of Australia and now he is I have a pretty fair idea it would have been into scaring low income families in Austra- the Deputy Leader of the Opposition trying lia. He should be ashamed of himself. to run down the Australian economy. I notice Business: Australian Chamber of that he tried it on Friday, he tried it on Satur- Commerce and Industry Survey day, he tried it Sunday and he tried it on Monday. As the Prime Minister said, I said Mr CREAN (2.06 p.m.)—My question is on the way down to question time it is a fair to the Treasurer. Has he seen the latest busi- bet we will not get any questions about retail ness survey released today by the Australian trade today, because if consumers are buying Chamber of Commerce and Industry that the Labor Party is unhappy. shows the fifth consecutive decline in confi- dence, now down 35 per cent since January I have seen the ACCI survey, which said last year; a spreading of the pessimism over that 90 per cent of respondents expect business conditions across the business growth in earnings to rise or stay the same; community; the lowest reading of investor 75 per cent of respondents regard their own confidence in nearly eight years; and contin- conditions to be satisfactory or better; 70 per ued poor expectations of growth, investment, cent of business expect the level of sales to profitability and employment? be satisfactory or better; two-thirds of re- spondents expect investment to be the same Honourable members interjecting— or higher, with nearly 30 per cent expecting Mr SPEAKER—The Deputy Leader of higher levels; and 70 per cent of businesses the Opposition will come to his question. expect full-time employment to do the same. Mr CREAN—Has he also seen state- Mr Crean interjecting— ments by ACCI’s head, Mark Paterson, Mr SPEAKER—The Deputy Leader of blaming the GST and saying of the survey: the Opposition was granted a good deal of Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26125 grace and will extend the same sort of cour- get into government and to take advantage of tesy to the Treasurer, or I will deal with him. it. Mr Horne—Mr Speaker, I raise a point of The Labor Party has been pretty lucky that order. When the Treasurer stood up to an- it has had a sympathetic press for the last swer this question, he said that he did not five years, but now that the focus is coming hear it because of the noise. You could onto it and people are beginning to ask ques- hardly say it was orderly. tions it is time for some answers to be given. Mr SPEAKER—The member for And the biggest answer that the people of Paterson runs the real risk of reflecting on Australia want to know today is: if you are the chair. so opposed to GST, if you think it is no good for the economy, why are you not promising Mr COSTELLO—So, in relation to the to repeal it? Why will you not commit your- ACCI survey today, there were a number of self to a massive roll-back? Why will you indications that, in respect of their own busi- not name the goods and services? Why will nesses, businesses were expecting growth in you not name how you will fund it? And, either earnings or investment. It is true to say most of all, why will you not tell the people that, coming off record highs in January of Australia how much you intend to put up 2000, confidence is lower than it was at the income taxes to pay for it? time of the record high, but if you look at the measures of confidence, as I do carefully, the Mr Crean—I seek leave to table the good thing to say about the ACCI survey is ACCI survey that demonstrates the blame of that the measures are certainly stronger than the GST on the economy. they were under the Labor Party government Leave not granted. when the Labor Party was pushing Australia Economy: Retail Trade Figures into the massive recession that it did in 1990 and 1991. Mrs DRAPER (2.14 p.m.)—My question is addressed to the Treasurer. Would the In relation to the new tax system, because Treasurer advise the House of the February I am asked about the new tax system, can I retail trade figures released on this very im- just make this point: if the Labor Party were portant day by the Australian Bureau of Sta- really against the new tax system and really tistics? opposed to GST, it would be pledging to abolish it. But the fact that the Labor Party Mr COSTELLO—I thank the honour- on the one hand says that it is opposed the able member for Makin for her question. I GST but on the other hand intends to keep it can inform her that the Australian Bureau of when it gets into government shows the Statistics today released the retail trade fig- complete hypocrisy of Labor Party spokes- ures for February showing a retail trade in- crease of 1.2 per cent for that month, coming men. on top of a 1.1 per cent increase in January. The Prime Minister said on the weekend So retail trade is now 8.1 per cent higher that this is the weakest Leader of the Oppo- than it was a year ago. The February out- sition since Gough Whitlam. I would say— come was significantly higher than market ‘and, unlike Gough Whitlam, who turned out expectations and the increase in retail trade to be Australia’s worst Prime Minister, actu- was broadly based: retailing and general re- ally has a weaker policy position than Gough tailing up 3.2 per cent, department stores up Whitlam’. The member for Hotham could be 1.9 per cent, recreational goods retailing up the weakest spokesman on Treasury matters 1.5 per cent and food retailing up 1.4 per for the Labor Party since his father. After cent. By region, all states and territories re- five years he has not announced a single corded increases in February. That indicates policy. On the one hand, he would have you that retailers are, I believe, taking not just believe that he is totally opposed to the GST; advantage of good prices at the moment but on the other hand, his desperate desire is to advantages that have been given by cuts in income tax which came into effect on 1 July 26126 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 of last year and an accommodative monetary tive marginal tax rates for families receiving policy which has saved home mortgage buy- youth allowance and the inadequacy of youth ers over $3,000 per annum on the average allowance income for many young people. mortgage since this government came to of- When will the minister admit his Youth Al- fice. lowance policy has been a failure and com- We had a very interesting premiers con- mit to overhauling it? ference here in Canberra on Friday of last Dr KEMP—The Youth Allowance policy week. All of the state Treasurers arrived here has of course been one of the major and very in Canberra—five of them Labor Treasurers. positive initiatives of this government which I got the opportunity to meet for the first has done away with the incentives that the time the Labor Treasurer of Victoria, Mr Labor Party put in place for young people to John Brumby, who made the following drop out of school and go on to welfare. For comment after the premiers conference, years Labor gave young people the message speaking on Melbourne ABC radio. Mr that there was an alternative lifestyle avail- Brumby, a real Treasurer in a real govern- able on the dole if they dropped out of ment—albeit a Labor one. Mr John Brumby, school. That was what Labor’s message to the Labor Treasurer—and I would urge, on young people was. We introduced the youth thinking members of the House, considera- allowance so that the incentives would be tion of his words—said: such as to encourage young people to invest I don’t like people talking of recession. I don’t in their own futures by continuing with their like people talking the economy down. I don’t education and continuing to build up their think that is where we are at. skill levels. That is one of the reasons why That was on Friday afternoon. Have a guess we have seen a very significant fall in youth who called the press around to a soccer unemployment under this government—in match on Saturday to talk the Australian fact, a halving of youth unemployment since economy down? Who do you think would the peaks reached under the Labor Party have thought it was so important to have the government. I am flattered that the member press at a soccer game so that he could talk for Lilley believes that this is a matter in my down the Australian economy? Here is portfolio, but I refer him to the fact, however, Brumby on Friday, basically laying the fin- that Youth Allowance comes under the port- ger on the Leader of the Opposition and his folio of Family and Community Services. henchmen, saying, ‘I don’t like people talk- Water: Salinity Action Plan ing the economy down. I don’t think it is Mr WAKELIN (2.21 p.m.)—My question where we are at.’ He could not resist for 24 is addressed to the Deputy Prime Minister hours. He had to get the press around to a and Minister for Transport and Regional soccer match in an absolutely irresponsible Services. Would the Deputy Prime Minister action. No ideas, no policy—just a desire to advise the House what steps have been taken try and make false political capital out of by the government in the salinity action plan talking the Australian economy down—and to protect the interests of farmers and rural not nearly as responsible as Mr John communities? What impediments are there to Brumby, and that is saying something. protecting the rights of irrigators? Youth Allowance Mr ANDERSON—I thank the honour- Mr SWAN (2.18 p.m.)—My question able member for his question and acknowl- without notice is directed to the Minister for edge that he represents a huge area of rural, Education, Training and Youth Affairs. regional and remote Australia. Given that it is National Youth Week, I ask Mr Howard—Representing it very well the minister whether he is aware of substan- too. tial problems with his youth allowance pol- icy, including difficulties for young people in Mr ANDERSON—He does it extremely accessing youth allowance, excessive effec- well. I can say that, having spent some time with him in his own area, which is always a Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26127 pleasure. Salinity is a national problem that This is in stark contrast to the ALP’s ap- requires a national approach based on very proach. They have dealt with environmental sound planning, cooperation and the de- issues across this nation in the most divisive ployment of real resources. It already affects and destructive manner that any government around 2½ million hectares, or five per cent, could. They have constantly divided city of the cultivated land in Australia. Without from country, and if anyone wants an exam- action it is estimated that that figure will rise ple of the price that country people have paid to around 30 per cent, a truly horrendous they need look only at the forest industries. figure not just in environmental terms but in We have the Leader of the Opposition saying terms of the impact on the Australian econ- on Cairns radio on 14 March: omy and the impact, potentially, on a world Labor will be putting caps on individual regions which will increasingly become dependent where there is major environmental damage or on the capacity of countries like Australia to concerns of that nature. produce food and fibre in the future. He goes on to talk about the Greens party The federal government is providing lead- being, interestingly, ‘significantly interested ership on this very important question. We in what Labor have to say’ before he moves recognise that it is a challenge confronting on to talk about preferences with the Greens. Australian primary producers and the com- He did not talk about engaging with the peo- munities that they live in. Last year we an- ple who work the land. He did not talk about nounced a $1½ billion salinity action plan. It how he was going to work with farmers, the is a community led action plan or program, custodians, the managers, the producers from not a Canberra-knows-best solution imposed the land—the very people who in the end are from on top. In addition to that, of course, the key to moving to sustainable land usage we have deployed already $1½ billion or so in this country where changes have to be through the Natural Heritage Trust. A great made. deal of that has been spent on land degrada- Of course, you can always learn from their tion and water quality. Again, that is a pro- brethren, particularly in Queensland and gram that is led by communities acting in New South Wales, where continually Labor concert with sound advice, not a Canberra- parties have shown their contempt for land- knows-best approach. owners, always willing to impact on land- The community as a whole, it needs to be owners and their use of their resources, al- recognised, has benefited from primary pro- ways ready to let that impact flow over into duction. We all eat and we all wear clothes. their communities without talking and Many of our jobs, our exports and indeed our working through proper studies of social and nation’s wealth and our living standards are economic impacts and then making appro- derived from the use of the land, and a lot of priate policy decisions. In relation to water, our rural and regional communities would for example, the silence from Sydney is simply close down if we do not deal properly deafening, and then, in relation to land with salinity and, importantly, as part of that clearing in Queensland, what was the ap- help communities work through adjustment proach of the Beattie government to helping issues where they arise. When developing landowners cope with the unworkable solu- the salinity action plan, the government rec- tions that he was putting up? A midnight fax ognised the financial implications for farm- through to us insisting on millions of dollars ers and their communities: very importantly of Commonwealth money. indeed, we have written into the salinity ac- So, in short, it is about time that the oppo- tion plan a clause that will ensure that loss of sition developed a policy on sustainable land land-holders’ rights are adequately addressed use which was not focused on the people of and adjustment assistance and, where neces- Paddington, Middle Park, Balmain, North- sary, compensation is paid. bridge or Manuka but, rather, went to the people of Griffith, Leeton, Narrandera, Al- 26128 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 bury, Wentworth, Mildura, Dubbo, Narrabri, Dr KEMP—The failure of the Leader of Collarenebri, Gunnedah, Parkes, Forbes, the Opposition, when he was responsible for Loxton, Berri, Biranbandi, St George—all this area of policy, devastated the lives of communities made up of real people who are many young Australians. going to be impacted upon as we move to- Opposition members interjecting— wards sustainable production in this land. The coalition government has shown we can Dr KEMP—It has a great deal to do with work in concert with those people; the ALP the question, because the question related to shows nothing but contempt for them. the impact of policies on the lives of young people. Youth Allowance Mr Beazley interjecting— Mr BEAZLEY (2.26 p.m.)—My question is to the Minister for Education, Training and Dr KEMP—You were the greatest fail- Youth Affairs, in particular in his role as ure, so far as young Australians were con- minister for youth affairs. I refer to the pre- cerned, that this country has seen. So far as vious question regarding youth allowance. Is the report is concerned, the youth task force the minister aware that the Youth Pathways requested the government to provide them Action Plan Taskforce report is now more with an extension of time to prepare the re- than a year overdue? I ask the Minister if he port, which the government was perfectly is aware that this leaked copy of the report willing to give. states that some young people denied youth Mr Beazley interjecting— allowance have ‘turned to petty theft or drug Mr SPEAKER—The Leader of the Op- dealing to survive’. Minister, doesn’t this position has asked his question. report confirm that your Youth Allowance Dr KEMP—The report has recently been policy is a failure, and isn’t this the reason submitted to the government. why the report is now 13 months overdue? Haven’t you hidden the report because you Mr Beazley—When? and your government refuse to listen to Dr KEMP—The government is looking young people who disagree with you? at the report— Dr KEMP—The question comes from a Mr Beazley—Looking at it since when? Leader of the Opposition who pushed youth Dr KEMP—and will consider its han- unemployment in Australia up to record lev- dling of the report. els. In fact, when the Leader of the Opposi- Mr SPEAKER—The minister will re- tion was the minister for education and for sume his seat. The Leader of the Opposition employment, youth unemployment reached must know that on two occasions in the last its highest levels for decades. 15 seconds he has openly defied the chair. Mr Beazley—Mr Speaker, I raise a point The minister has the call, and the minister of order that goes to relevance. will be heard in silence. Mr SPEAKER—The Leader of the Op- Dr KEMP—The report considers a whole position will resume his seat. range of matters concerning the opportunities Mr Beazley—He has been asked a ques- for young people and the way in which gov- tion— ernment programs can help young people. Mr SPEAKER—The Leader of the Op- Naturally, of course, that is why the govern- position will resume his seat. ment commissioned the report in the first place. It is a report which follows on from Mr Beazley—about young people being the Prime Minister’s Youth Homelessness forced— Taskforce. It is a report which will be very Mr SPEAKER—The Leader of the Op- valuable to the government and will enable position will resume his seat. There is no the government to put in place policies that point of order on relevance, as he is well will further assist young people. aware. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26129

The hypocrisy of this question coming ways Action Plan Taskforce 2001, Foot- from the Leader of the Opposition is hard to prints to the future. believe, because nobody has done more Leave not granted. damage to the lives of young people in this country than the person who pushed up Commonwealth-State Financial youth unemployment to those record levels. Arrangements The member for Hotham, the Deputy Leader Mr ANDREWS (2.33 p.m.)—My ques- of the Opposition sitting behind him, was tion is addressed to the Treasurer. Would the responsible for that whole destructive merry- Treasurer advise the House of the outcome go-round of youth programs under the of the ministerial council on Common- Working Nation program, which was solely wealth-state financial relations, attended by designed to redefine long-term unemploy- state and territory treasurers in Canberra last ment as short-term unemployment and to try Friday? to shorten the youth queues. This govern- Mr COSTELLO—I thank the honour- ment has brought youth unemployment down able member for Menzies for his question. I dramatically. It has put into place programs, can inform him that on Friday six state and like the Jobs Pathway Program, which are two territory treasurers came to Canberra for this year helping some 65,000 young people the second ministerial council on Common- to get jobs from school and which is having a wealth-state financial relations and, in par- very significant effect in raising retention ticular, to allocate to each of the states their rates at public schools around Australia. This share of GST revenues. The GST revenues government has also put in place the JPET have been paid to the states in their entirety program, which was terminated by the previ- from 1 July 2000, and all revenue from GST ous government and is designed to help goes to state governments. As an example, homeless and very disadvantaged young the state of New South Wales is budgeted to people. There are now some 130 centres receive $7.9 billion of GST revenue in this around Australia helping these very disad- financial year. Excluding specific purpose vantaged young people to take control of payments, the New South Wales government their lives once more. The Deputy Leader of spends $4.2 billion on education. GST funds the Opposition, the member for Hotham, the salary of every teacher in every class- actually terminated that program, and yet it room in every school in New South Wales, has been one of the most successful youth and then it funds more. In addition to that, it programs that this country has put in place. funds public order and safety. Mr Crean—And what did we put in its Far from there being some kind of argu- place? An expanded one—and you know it. ment here in Canberra about the merits or Dr KEMP—You terminated that pro- demerits of GST, the argument that occurred gram— here in Canberra was about who could get Mr Crean—We put an expanded one in more of the GST revenues. Until then, I had never seen in all of my life a group of Labor its place, and you know it. state treasurers try to get their hands on a Mr SPEAKER—Deputy Leader of the ‘filthy’ stream of revenue that the Labor Opposition, for the third time! Party supposedly opposes. In all of the ar- Dr KEMP—and there was no substitute guments on Friday about who would get program put in place at all to compensate for more of the GST revenue, there was not one the abolition of that program. As far as spe- state treasurer who demanded that there be a cific programs about the youth allowance are roll-back. The one word that was never concerned, I suggest that you ask the rele- mentioned at the Commonwealth-state fi- vant minister. nancial council on Friday was ‘roll-back’. Mr Beazley—I seek leave to table the re- There was not one state treasurer—not even port from the Prime Minister’s Youth Path- the Labor Treasurer of Tasmania—who asked for a roll-back of the GST. 26130 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

I was very interested to come across a berra at the end of the Commonwealth-state letter to the Australian on 31 March 2001 financial ministers meeting. Have a listen to which was written by one of the members of this. This is the Labor Treasurer of the larg- this House. It starts off by saying this: est state of Australia, who is committed by Dennis Shanahan wants a touch of excitement in this Leader of the Opposition to the policy of politics ... and a real political debate about Aus- roll-back. He was asked this question: tralia’s future. Would rolling back the GST help your position? I would have thought that Dennis is a very Egan: Well, let’s wait and see what policies the exciting chap—I am sure his wife and family political parties come up with before the federal think that he is a very exciting chap, too. The election. member continued: Journalist: You are not exactly embracing roll- So do I ... back, are you? Dr Martin—He’s so excited that he’s dis- Egan: Well, I don’t know what the policy is yet. appeared. He does not know what the policy is, but he Mr COSTELLO—He has disappeared is not alone. The Leader of the Opposition on more exciting business, pretty obviously. does not know what the policy is, the Deputy This member of parliament finished up, after Leader of the Opposition does not know calling for a touch of excitement in national what the policy is, the frontbench of the La- politics, by saying this: bor Party does not know what the policy is and the backbench of the Labor Party does ... could the next big discussion be about the fu- ture of our national government and the redefini- not know what the policy is. Most impor- tion of states’ ‘rights’ and responsibilities now tantly, the people of Australia do not know that the GST has shifted so much to them? what the policy is, and the Leader of the Op- Ms Kernot—By you. position had better come out and announce it, because down in that fine print you will Mr SPEAKER—The member for Dick- find that all roads lead to higher income son is defying the chair. taxes, and that is what he hides from the Mr COSTELLO—That letter was writ- Australian public. ten by Cheryl Kernot, the member for Dick- Youth Allowance son. ‘Now that the GST has shifted so much to them’—in other words, now that you have Mr SWAN (2.38 p.m.)—My question fixed Commonwealth-state financial rela- without notice is directed to the Minister for tions, can we get on with a debate about na- Community Services, and it relates to the tional responsibilities? I feel like saying to suppressed Youth Pathways Action Plan the member for Dickson: your policy is actu- Taskforce report. Minister, are you aware ally to roll back GST revenues. That is your that this report, like the McClure report be- policy—to take it away. If you roll back GST fore it, condemns your government for im- revenues, you are either going to take teach- posing marginal tax rates as high as 111 per ers out of school classrooms or policemen cent on the families of many youth allow- off the beat, or, if you are going to make up ance recipients? Minister, how many reports the revenues, you are going to have to find a will it take for you to end the punishment of new tax to guarantee those revenues. The low and middle income Australian families? real reason that the Labor Party cannot an- Haven’t you hidden this report because you nounce a policy on roll-back is that they do and your government refuse to listen to peo- not want the Australian public to know how ple who disagree with you? much they intend to put taxes up. You cannot Mr Ross Cameron—That is an imputa- guarantee the money to the states and roll tion of bad faith and it should be withdrawn. back the GST. Mr SPEAKER—If the member for Par- The New South Wales Treasurer, Mr ramatta wants the call, he will seek it, or oth- Egan, had a press conference here in Can- erwise remain silent. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26131

Mr Ross Cameron—Mr Speaker, I raise ency—something that you never ever did, a point of order. I refer to the two standing because it was a policy of the Australian La- orders which specifically prohibit argument bor Party almost to encourage welfare de- and the imputation of bad faith. I ask you to pendency to become intergenerational. This consider the scope of standing order 144 in government wants to provide opportunities, prohibiting the presence of argument in and we have through a far more flexible job questions, and, furthermore, the imputation network provided opportunity in the sense of of bad faith, which is inherently disorderly providing increased training and assistance, and is responsible for much bad conduct in particularly to those people who are vulner- this House. able within the community. As far as youth Mr SPEAKER—I refer the member for allowance is concerned, it has been ex- Parramatta to the statement I issued on I tremely successful. I would just like to men- think the last sitting day of last year. The tion that 68,000 students are now receiving member for Parramatta is right that there has youth allowance and rental assistance that been an instance in question time today never would have received it under the pre- where a question did advance more argument vious policies of the Australian Labor Party. than I ought to have tolerated under that That is $52 a fortnight. There are 19,400 standing order, but I do not believe the ques- people in remote and rural parts of Australia tion just asked by the member for Lilley ex- who would never have received rental assis- ceeds those boundaries. tance but for the positive policies that we introduced for youth allowance. I totally re- Mr ANTHONY—It is extraordinary the ject these pious crocodile tears coming from crocodile tears that are being cried by the the member for Lilley, who is the ultimate member for Lilley and by the Australian La- hypocrite. bor Party. As another minister said in an ear- lier answer, the greatest travesty that you Mr SPEAKER—The minister will with- perpetrated on young people was record draw that last reference. youth unemployment, the highest ever seen Mr ANTHONY—If it offends you, Mr in this country. The other point, of course, is Speaker, I withdraw it. that you quite conveniently churned people Mr SPEAKER—The minister will with- through Working Nation. Apprenticeships draw without condition. It is not a question were at the lowest level since the war when of whether I am offended; it falls outside the the ALP was last in government. The thing standing orders and guidelines. that we did for youth allowance that you never did was to make it available to many Mr ANTHONY—I withdraw. people in rural and remote Australia, and Australian Defence Force they now have access to rental assistance that Mr HAWKER (2.43 p.m.)—My question they had never had. The previous policy of is to the Minister for Defence. One hundred the Labor Party made it easier for people to years on from the formation of the Australian go on unemployment benefits than it was to Army and 80 years since the formation of the go on Austudy. What we did was introduce Royal Australian Air Force, I ask the minis- youth allowance where, as at the end of last ter what capacity has the Australian Defence year, there are now over 374,000 young peo- Force to meet challenges in our region, and ple receiving youth allowance which is sub- is the minister aware of alternative ap- stantially more flexible with increased pay- proaches in this regard? ments than Austudy. Mr REITH—I thank the honourable The government has received the report. member for his question. I also acknowledge We received it about a month ago and we the significant effort he puts into the whole will make an assessment of it. As far as the debate about defence and the expertise that McClure report is concerned, it is this gov- he brings to the issue. As detailed in the de- ernment that is tackling welfare depend- fence white paper, the government views the 26132 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 defence of Australia within a regional con- laide Advertiser. Then yesterday there was text, and it was the Prime Minister who said: just more confusion on top of that. The Mr Beazley interjecting— shadow minister, after having read a 30-page statement and discussion paper on defence Mr SPEAKER—The Leader of the Op- policy, went on the personal attack and he position. said this memorable line. ‘Once again this is Mr REITH—The Prime Minister said: a furphy which the minister has been putting ... while the self-reliant defence of Australia re- about. He suggests that we will not release mains the basis of our defence policy— policy details until after the election. No-one Mr Beazley interjecting— has said that,’ said the shadow minister con- Mr SPEAKER—The Leader of the Op- fidently. Isn’t that incredible? Because only position! two weeks ago he said exactly those words. In his own words, he said: Mr Beazley interjecting— ... it is not appropriate for the Opposition to an- Mr SPEAKER—If the Leader of the Op- nounce or speculate on specific defence equip- position wants to challenge the chair— ment or force structure issues before the election. Mr Barresi—You’re a child, Beazley. So he is accusing me of making the point Mr SPEAKER—The member for that they are not going to announce a policy Deakin! The minister has the call. until after the election, and the shadow min- ister himself said so— Mr REITH—To finish the quote: Dr Martin interjecting— ... it is not the limit of that policy. Our security equally depends on developments in our neigh- Mr REITH—No amount of loud inter- bourhood and beyond. jections will overcome your problems of The fact that when the Howard government having put out a press release on 13 March was elected in 1996 it immediately started which said that you are not going to tell us the task of providing additional support to about your defence policy until after the next the Army was vindicated by the develop- election. These people are just plain con- ments and successes which we have seen in fused. They have no idea, and they are not the deployment to East Timor. prepared to be straight with the Australian public about their defence policy. Then you I am asked if I am aware of any alterna- find that the shadow minister says, ‘I think tive approaches in this area. What I am it’s shocking for the government to ask us aware of is basically confusion on all fronts questions about defence, because this breaks from the opposition when it comes to de- down bipartisanship.’ That is what you said fence policy. After a couple of weeks of yesterday. In December, only three or four questioning back in early March, the shadow months ago, the very same shadow minister minister told the West Australian that La- said: bor’s defence policy would not be decided until after the budget. So we were going to I am pleased to see that we have got a generally be told sometime in May. Then a few days bipartisan position on the issue of defence. I am not so certain, however, that we share the same later we were told: view about the force structure— ... although it will reveal how much money a La- That is exactly the point. The opposition will bor Government would allocate to defence in general, it will not tell voters what it will be spent not tell the Australian people how they on until after the election. would spend the defence dollar, if ever the Labor Party were elected to office. I say, on That came from the opposition leader. Then behalf of the government and on behalf of on 13 March we had yet another story. This anybody who is interested in defence is- time the story was that the 1998 policy was sues— now null and void. That was contradicted back in 2000, when the Leader of the Oppo- Dr Martin—And knows something about sition was advocating two subs to the Ade- it, which you don’t. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26133

Mr SPEAKER—The member for Cun- Minister, will you acknowledge this weak- ningham knows better than that. ness of the Job Network and its failure to Mr REITH—that, as the Leader of the prepare many young Australians for work, Opposition was defence minister for years, because it does not offer guaranteed— he ought to at least be able to conjure up a Mr SPEAKER—The member for Dick- policy for the next election and tell people son— where he stands. I will tell you why the Ms KERNOT—because it does not of- shadow minister is a bit confused, it is be- fer— cause he is a bit worried. The reason he is a bit worried is that we now know that the Mr SPEAKER—The member for Dick- Chief Opposition Whip is going to be the son! cabinet secretary. I will tell the shadow min- Ms KERNOT—This is a question, Mr ister something that he will not acknowl- Speaker. edge—that is, we know for a fact that he is Mr SPEAKER—The member for Dick- not going to be the Defence minister if the son will not defy the chair. She will resume Labor Party ever get in. He has got a lot of her seat. reason to be worried. No wonder he is con- Mr McMullan—Mr Speaker, I just seek fused. clarification from you first: are you requiring Job Network: Young Unemployed the member for Dickson to resume her seat, Mr SPEAKER—I call the member for suggesting that what has been proposed is Dickson. not a question when she asks a minister Mr Bevis interjecting— whether he will acknowledge a weakness in his program? If not, what is accountability Mr SPEAKER—The member for Bris- all about if that question is not acceptable? bane is denying the member for Dickson the call. Mr SPEAKER—I had not ruled the question out of order. I had asked the mem- Ms Gillard interjecting— ber for Dickson to come to her question. She Mrs Draper interjecting— then continued to quote from the report and Mr SPEAKER—The member for Lalor! the question was in order. The question then The member for Makin! I have recognised became lengthier than I thought was neces- the member for Dickson and the discourtesy sary, and that is why I asked her to resume of her colleagues on both sides of the House her seat. The question stands. has denied her the call. Mr BROUGH—The first thing to say is Ms KERNOT (2.49 p.m.)—My question that there is no hidden report. That is just is to the Minister for Employment Services. absolute poppycock, as you would expect Minister, are you aware that Dr Kemp’s sup- from the shadow minister. She talks about pressed Youth Pathways report states: the Job Network, but I am afraid that, even though she actually has a Job Network pro- Many young people find the Job Network diffi- cult to access and too complex to negotiate. It is vider in her own building, she knows very often poorly connected to local community proc- little about the processes nor the parts of the esses and youth service networks. There is little Job Network which constitute the job search recognition— training, intensive assistance and of course Mr SPEAKER—The member for Dick- job matching. son will come to her question. The facts are that the Job Network has Ms KERNOT—The report continues: provided 14 per cent better outcomes than the old Working Nation, at almost half the There is little recognition that the preparation cost of Working Nation. The only thing that required for work by young people is very differ- ent to adults. is on the public record is your comments when you were with the other party in the other place supporting failed programs under 26134 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 the Working Nation program. Job Network but to three specialists. Let me focus on this has been responsive to the market. It has for just a moment. over 2,000 different outlets where young Ms Macklin interjecting— people can actually access jobs. It also has IT, which allows for young people to be able Mr SPEAKER—The member for Jaga- to access any job in Australia from their own jaga is defying the chair. home, from libraries, from their schools or, Dr WOOLDRIDGE—The member for in fact, from any Centrelink office. Jagajaga has said that Labor will require Mr Snowdon interjecting— doctors to normally provide three choices of specialist when referring patients. What does Mr SPEAKER—The Member for the this mean in practice? Take Coonabarabran Northern Territory! in the Deputy Prime Minister’s electorate. I Mr BROUGH—It is time that you learnt asked the Health Insurance Commission to something about the Job Network and started tell me what the options would be for a per- to assist the unemployed of this country. son who had a sick child in Coonabarabran, a Mr SPEAKER—Before I recognise the city of 3,000 people— member for Boothby, I remind all members, Ms Macklin interjecting— but particularly ministers in responding to Mr SPEAKER—The minister will re- questions, that references to ‘you’ and sume his seat. I warn the member for Jaga- ‘your’, while not, I imagine, intended to re- jaga. flect on the chair, could have left people lis- tening to that answer with the impression Dr WOOLDRIDGE—The nearest place that the chair, in an effort to be independent, to Coonabarabran that has three paediatri- belonged to a number of political parties. I cians is Sydney, but there are other options: will interrupt ministers in future if they con- Dubbo, Orange, Wellington and Bathurst. tinue to make references to ‘you’ and ‘your’. Dubbo is 150 kilometres away, Orange is 200 kilometres away, Wellington is 200 Health: Policy kilometres away and Bathurst is 270 kilo- Dr SOUTHCOTT (2.53 p.m.)—My metres away, but none of these has three spe- question is addressed to the Minister for cialists. It would be completely impractical. Health and Aged Care. Would the minister Someone in Ceduna would have to go to update the House on any recent announce- Adelaide, which is 500 kilometres away, to ment concerning plans to legislate the rela- access three specialists and if they were not tionship between general practitioners and all available at the one time it would require their patients? Minister, what impact would three round trips. People in Charleville this have on Medicare and Australia’s health would have to go 700 kilometres to care system? Toowoomba. This is a flight of fancy. The Dr WOOLDRIDGE—I thank the hon- honourable member for Boothby under- ourable member for his question. I am aware stands, as I do, that the relationship between of a recent policy announcement from the a doctor and their patient is one based on member for Jagajaga, and honourable mem- trust, not one which includes, when referral bers will understand that these are so infre- is necessary, referral to three people. How on quent as to have some novelty value. The earth does the Leader of the Opposition ex- member for Jagajaga put out a press release pect people to adequately choose between last week saying that she intended to intro- three microvascular neurosurgeons, even if duce a bill that would force doctors to do you could find three of them in a capital certain things. One of these is that she would city? How on earth does Labor imagine that make it a legal requirement for GPs who something like this would be workable? It is want to refer a patient to a specialist to refer completely unworkable for rural people, for the patient not to one specialist in that field imaging, for highly specialist procedures and for emergencies. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26135

Another worrying point of this is the cost Mr SPEAKER—The member for the of the policy. If you look at the fact that 35 Northern Territory is warned. per cent of specialists’ consultations are ini- Mr ANTHONY—The member raises tial consultations and if you took the as- some interesting questions, particularly about sumption that two out of three people would the breaching regime that is currently in consult the doctors to which they are given place under the coalition government. The the options, the total cost of this policy as interesting thing for young people—indeed, costed by my department is $452 million in a for anybody—under the previous steward- year. How is Labor going to pay $452 mil- ship of the Australian Labor Party was that, lion? The nearest round amount that we can if they were in breach, they lost their total find is the Rural Health Strategy, something entitlement. We introduced a gradual regime Labor has not once said that they would to ensure that we did not penalise people keep. Here we have it, a policy made on the unfairly, which is exactly what the Australian run, a policy that is completely impractical, a Labor Party’s policy did through the then policy that shows no understanding of the Department of Social Security. Of those peo- health care system, and a policy that would ple who have lost their total payment under not apply to emergencies, rural people, im- this government—and a lot of them could be aging, or highly specialised procedures—a young people, although we are very mindful policy that shows what happens when you of young people who are vulnerable, whether make policy on the run. they are homeless, whether they have a dis- Job Network: Breaches ability or whether they are at risk—only Mr ZAHRA (2.57 p.m.)—My question is 9,500 people lost that total entitlement for to the Minister for Community Services. breaching. When Labor was in government Minister, are you aware that Dr Kemp’s sup- that figure was around 80,000 to 90,000. It is pressed Youth Pathways report criticises, and just outrageous for the Australian Labor I quote: Party to show this affected compassion when the breaching regime that they had in place ... the rigidity of activity testing for young people who have experienced family breakdown, sexual when they were in government was far more abuse, drug abuse or mental health problems. severe—indeed, you supported this legisla- tion through the Senate. So what you say and In particular, are you aware that these young what you do are two different things—and people, trying to survive in difficult circum- the Australian public knows that. stances, are often being fined more than $800 for minor breaches? Minister, why Ethanol Production won’t you act in response to these findings, Mrs DE-ANNE KELLY (3.00 p.m.)—My or do you prefer the government policy of question is addressed to the Minister for Ag- ignoring people who disagree with you? riculture, Fisheries and Forestry. Would the Mr Ross Cameron—I raise a point of or- minister outline to the House the assistance der under standing order 144. I think there is the federal government is providing for the a great will on this side of the House to do construction in Brisbane of a mixing and the right thing, but the last part of that ques- distribution system for ethanol? How will tion so exceeds the bounds of even your gen- this project help reduce Australia’s green- erous tolerance that I ask you to require it to house gas emissions and assist with the pro- be withdrawn. duction of an alternative fuel source? Mr SPEAKER—I do not believe that the Mr TRUSS—I thank the honourable latter part of the question did anything to member for Dawson for her question and, in enhance the authenticity of the question and particular, acknowledge her work as chair- it therefore ought to be ignored. man of the government sugar industry task force. Along with the members for Hinkler, Mr Snowdon interjecting— Page, Fairfax and Leichhardt, she put a great deal of enthusiasm into promoting the pro- 26136 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 duction of ethanol from sugar. They will be HIH Insurance aware that I commissioned last year a review Mr CREAN (3.04 p.m.)—My question is of the economics of the production of etha- to the Minister for Financial Services and nol. Yesterday, I was very pleased to an- Regulation. Minister, precisely when were nounce a project which takes the distribution you first informed by APRA of its concerns of ethanol, and particularly ethanol-petrol that insurance firm HIH was in financial dif- mixes, a major step forward. The federal ficulty? government, under its greenhouse gas abatement program, has offered BP Australia Mr HOCKEY—During last year, I asked $8.8 million towards a $90 million project to APRA on a number of occasions about the help ensure that ethanol mixed with petrol is financial position of HIH. They replied to me available through service stations in Brisbane with a memo on 2 November confirming that and other parts of the east coast network. HIH was facing financial difficulties but that in fact HIH was, on the June accounts, quite The production of ethanol has significant stable. advantages for Australia. Firstly, over five years this project will enable Australia to Internet: Gambling save about 1.1 million tonnes of greenhouse Mr CAMERON THOMPSON (3.05 gas emissions. Secondly, it makes our coun- p.m.)—My question is to the Minister for try a little less dependent upon OPEC and Community Services. The minister will re- international oil prices and, thirdly, it has the call last year’s Productivity Commission potential to create significant jobs in rural report into the gambling industry and the and regional Australia as ethanol distilling serious problems that that report highlighted. establishments are provided and farmers gear Is the minister aware of any new reports on up to the production of alternative fuels. It is the escalation of Internet gambling? Do these certainly an industry with significant poten- reports support the government’s concerns tial and, to have the support of one of the that the spread of gambling harms families petrol majors, using its distribution network and harms the wider community? to supply petrol-ethanol mix, is certainly a Mr ANTHONY—I thank the member for major step forward for alternative energy Blair. I know he shows a very keen interest production in Australia. in social issues and particularly the prolif- This of course will not be the first pro- eration of gambling. I inform members of the duction of ethanol in Australia. The Manildra House of two very important articles pub- Group, in the electorate of the honourable lished in the United States recently, which I member for Gilmore, are major suppliers of hope might be taken on board by the Austra- ethanol. They produce about 32 million litres lian Labor Party. The first is an article by a year at the present time and distribute some Gannett news service titled ‘Addiction risk of that by way of petrol-ethanol mix. That high in Internet gambling’. In this article this example can be followed by the grain indus- organisation anticipates that gambling online tries and the sugar industries to provide in America will triple by 2004. This means enormous potential for the production of that gambling will go to $6.3 billion by ethanol and the use of alternative fuels in 2003, up from $651 million—almost a ten- Australia. BP will be required to source its fold increase since 1998. The report also ethanol from Australian producers, so this is highlights the concerns of the American Psy- a significant boost to Australian industry. I chiatric Association about young people who would like to commend all of those who have access to credit cards and, particularly, have been associated with this project, and I that they are susceptible to the use of the note that the sugar industry in particular is Internet. Why? It is because that age group looking forward to cooperative ventures to uses the Internet more than any other age produce the ethanol and to boost many rural group. The association said, and this is a and regional economies in the sugar belt of very salient point, that there are many online Queensland and northern New South Wales. video and broader gaming sites which are Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26137 targeting children and teens, including links HIH Insurance to gambling sites. We also know that 10 per Mr CREAN (3.09 p.m.)—My question is cent to 15 per cent of these young people again to the Minister for Financial Services have reported significant gambling problems and Regulation. It relates to HIH and follows as a result of the Internet. his last answer. Minister, are you satisfied Another survey in the New York Times that APRA has kept you properly advised on news service was called ‘Betters find online all occasions and has properly discharged its gambling harder to resist’. This was a report supervisory functions? by Pew Internet and American Life Project Mr HOCKEY—It is not for me to give a which also demonstrated that around five per running commentary on APRA. The reason cent of Internet users gamble; that is, 4.5 why it is not for me to give a running com- million Americans in total, with one million mentary on APRA is that the focus of all the gambling every day on the Internet in the entities at the moment—that is, the Austra- United States. It also stated that women and lian Prudential Regulation Authority, the the less affluent were more vulnerable and Australian Securities and Investments Com- were using the Internet, which is obviously a mission, the Insurance Council of Australia growing concern in the United States and is a and all state governments—should be on the growing concern for the government here. interests of the policyholders. As APRA in- We do not want to see a proliferation in the dicated over the weekend and I am happy to accessibility of gambling, and the negative confirm, since October-November last year social consequences that it will have, par- APRA has been working diligently with HIH ticularly on the family structure and on to try to resolve any problems that might be crime. That is why a lot of surveys that have associated with any changes in the financial come out locally—indeed, from my depart- state of HIH for policyholders. This has been ment—illustrate that 68 per cent of Austra- a particularly important step because it has lians support the coalition’s ban on interac- delivered to policyholders some substantial tive gambling. Is it any wonder; with inter- benefits. For example, the Allianz deal was active technology, with the use of the Inter- announced in September 2000 and com- net and with the use of digital television, menced on 1 January 2001. That deal be- gambling problems will be exacerbated. Un- tween HIH and Allianz covers one million der this government, all the revenue from the policyholders and has delivered on the fact GST will go back to the states. They do not that all of the following personal and domes- need to encourage or increase the amount of tic insurance policies, which were current— gambling. We are drawing a line in the sand as we do not want to see— Mr Crean—I raise a point of order as to relevance, Mr Speaker. The question was: Mr Costello—They might under roll- have they kept him properly advised and back. have they discharged their function— Mr ANTHONY—They might under roll- Mr SPEAKER—The Deputy Leader of back, as the Treasurer said. This government the Opposition will resume his seat. I had wants to draw a line in the sand; we do not noted the question and felt that any comment want to see interactive gaming happening in that the minister was making about corre- this country. That is why I call on the Leader spondence between him and APRA was en- of the Opposition, Kim Beazley, Bracks, Ba- tirely relevant to the question. con and Beattie to follow suit with the Aus- tralian population, to ban interactive gam- Mr HOCKEY—The Allianz deal, which bling and to start to come on board with the APRA has approved, covers private motor, Liberal and National parties in addressing compulsory third party, private pleasure craft some of these major social issues. That is the and home building and contents, and it has responsibility that you should be taking here also sought to protect small business and and in the Senate. rural and commercial insurance policies. Al- lianz paid out $45 million in the first two 26138 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 months of 2000, obviously as a direct result tween them, the Australian Workers Union of the deal between HIH and Allianz. The and the Shop Assistants Union control more second major deal involves NRMA and was rotten boroughs than the Duke of Newcastle announced on 14 March and came into force controlled before the 1832 reform act. This is on 15 March. I remind the House that HIH why the member for Werriwa could point to went into provisional liquidation on 15 members of the Leader of the Opposition’s March. That covers 8,000 policyholders, frontbench and say that they owe their posi- covering workers compensation schemes. tions entirely to Nepotism Inc. Then QBE, which is the third part of the deal Mr McMullan—Mr Speaker, I rise on a to protect HIH policyholders, originally only point of order which goes to relevance. This covered anyone travelling on or after 17 historical treatise is neither very accurate nor March. That deal was announced on 6 very interesting; nor is it in order or relevant March, came into force on 17 March and to the question. protected 750,000 policyholders who were travelling. All the efforts of the Australian Mr SPEAKER—The Manager of Oppo- Prudential Regulation Authority and the sition Business has raised a point of order on Australian Securities and Investments Com- relevance. I was having some difficulty in mission are focused on protecting policy- linking the comments of the minister to the holders. I hope that the Labor Party supports question on the effect of union decline on the that policy. Australian workplace. I invite the minister to return to the question. Trade Unions: Membership Mr ABBOTT—I appreciate that mem- Mr PROSSER (3.13 p.m.)—My question bers of Nepotism Inc. are not happy with is to the Minister for Employment, Work- this, but the fact is that, because the unions place Relations and Small Business. Can the control the Labor Party, they completely and minister inform the House of union influ- utterly dictate opposition policy. This is why ences on Australian workplaces and other members of the opposition are going to institutions? What is the effect of declining abolish Australian workplace agreements, union representation on Australian workers? abolish the Employment Advocate and turn Mr ABBOTT—I thank the member for contractors into employees. What members Forrest for his question. Last year, when total opposite want to do is to allow unions repre- employment grew by some 300,000, total senting fewer than two million workers to union membership grew by just 23,000. I can completely determine the pay and conditions inform the House that union membership has of nearly six million Australian workers. It is fallen in the past two decades from over one- not right; it is not fair. If the Leader of the half to under one-quarter of the Australian Opposition had any guts, any ticker, any in- work force. Just under 20 per cent of the pri- tegrity, he would cease being the ventrilo- vate sector work force are now members of quist’s dummy of the ACTU, he would end trade unions; just under 50 per cent of the the union bloc vote and he would remove the public sector work force are now members of socialisation clause from the Labor Party trade unions. Even though fewer than 25 per platform. cent of Australian workers are union mem- Government members interjecting— bers, 100 per cent of Labor members of par- liament are union members. Nearly 60 per Mr Crean interjecting— cent of the Leader of the Opposition’s front- Mr SPEAKER—Is the Deputy Leader of bench are not just union members; but for- the Opposition seeking the call? While I am mer trade union officials. not being assisted by some ministers, I Because the unions control 60 per cent of would remind the Deputy Leader of the Op- the vote at Labor Party conferences, there are position of his status in the House. many safe Labor seats which are virtual rot- ten boroughs of the union movement. Be- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26139

HIH Insurance • APRA officers provided the MAA with APRA’s latest assessment of HIH; Mr CREAN (3.17 p.m.)—My question is • MAA officers did not suggest that APRA again to the Minister for Financial Services itself should appoint an inspector; and Regulation. Minister, in APRA’s advice • at no point did APRA argue that the MAA to you on 2 November, which you have just should not appoint an inspector because that told the House about, did they advise that would cause a loss of market confidence in requests had been made for the appointment HIH. of an inspector into HIH? The letter goes on to talk about Queensland’s Mr HOCKEY—I would need to check allegations: that advice. I am happy to advise the House APRA’s officers had several discussions with the of a letter that I have received from Mr MAIC— Graeme Thompson dated yesterday, 2 April. that is, in Queensland— It says the following— about HIH’s financial position, but they never Opposition members interjecting— expressed the view that all was well. Mr HOCKEY—Today is the 2nd. The The chief executive of APRA goes on to letter says: make a number of points, but I would just I am writing in relation to the HIH issue that was like to advise the House of the last two. raised with you in the House of Representatives Opposition members interjecting— question time ... Mr HOCKEY—I will table it. He goes I confirm APRA’s advice to you on that day that on to say: neither the New South Wales Government nor the Motor Accidents Authority of New South Wales I also repeat that the vast majority of the HIH (MAA) advised or instructed APRA that it should Group’s policyholders are in a better position appoint an inspector to the HIH Insurance group now, as a result of arrangements made with other at any time. insurers, than they would have been if APRA had appointed an inspector late in 2000. And I note I also confirm our understanding that, under its that APRA staff have worked very hard in recent legislation, the MAA has the power to appoint its weeks and months to facilitate these arrange- own inspector to a compulsory third party insurer ments. without receiving advice or approval from APRA. Finally, I assure you that APRA’s supervision of I confirm that the MAA— HIH over past months has been totally aimed at that is, in New South Wales— protecting the position of the policyholders with appointed an inspector to HIH on 6 March 2001, this troubled company. We will continue to work while APRA had issued its show cause notice with the provisional liquidator to achieve the best regarding the appointment of an inspector on 1 possible result for those policyholders who still March 2001. Our legislation requires us to issue a have claims on the company. show cause notice with the company having 14 I am happy to table that letter. APRA’s work days to respond before we can appoint an in- is unfinished and therefore APRA deserves spector, but the MAA has no such obligation. the opportunity to try to continue to protect For your further information, I have consulted the interests of policyholders without a run- APRA officers who were involved in discussions ning commentary from the sidelines. with the MAA about HIH in late October/early November 2000. Their clear recollection of those Mr Crean—Mr Speaker, the minister discussions is that: said— • the MAA advised it was considering its op- Mrs Draper interjecting— tions for the appointment of an inspector to Mr SPEAKER—Member for Makin, the HIH with regards to its motor vehicle com- pulsory third party business; Deputy Leader of the Opposition has the call • the APRA officers advised that APRA was and is entitled to be heard in silence. working closely with HIH on various ques- Mr Crean—The minister said he would tions about its financial position and was not, check the question that I had asked. I ask: at that time, intending to appoint an inspec- tor; will he come back into the House later today 26140 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 to give me the full information? This is a ary to a surplus of $389 million in February. very important issue. Moreover, in trend terms, the balance of Mr SPEAKER—The Deputy Leader of trade in February moved into surplus for the the Opposition will resume his seat. The first time since August 1996. Exports rose minister has responded to the question. If the three per cent in February, with rural exports Deputy Leader of the Opposition is seeking jumping 15 per cent. any other information from the minister, he That news this year in the month of Feb- can raise it with the minister privately. ruary is unquestionably fantastic for the Mr Crean—Mr Speaker, I seek indul- Australian economy. I am sure that the gence from you. member for Corangamite very quickly put a press release out around his electorate, iden- Mr SPEAKER—The Deputy Leader of tifying the great job that the exporters from the Opposition may, at the end of question his electorate were doing. I might have time, ask a question of the Speaker. There is missed something, but I have not seen one no occasion for indulgence at this point in from the Australian Labor Party acknowl- time. edging these good results by Australia’s ex- Mr Schultz interjecting— porters in February this year, because the Mr SPEAKER—The member for Hume Australian Labor Party are not interested in is fortunate that interjections are not consid- good news. They are not interested in talking ered as something necessary to be directed up the Australian economy; they are only through the chair as well. interested in talking the Australian economy Trade: Export Performance down. While the Australian Labor Party are sitting around, wanting to slide back into Mr McARTHUR (3.22 p.m.)—My ques- office, our government is busy working with tion is addressed to the Minister for Trade. our exporters to deliver new market opportu- Would the minister inform the House about nities and to facilitate better opportunities for recent trends in Australia’s trade perform- economic growth in our country and for ance and steps the government is taking to Australia’s exporters. further develop our export opportunities? Tomorrow I will outline the government’s Mr Tanner—Didn’t you answer this last annual trade outcomes and objectives state- week? ment, which is our report card to the Austra- Mr SPEAKER—Member for Melbourne! lian people on our trade performance for the Mr VAILE—I thank the member for 12 months of the year 2000, and an outline Corangamite for his question. Whilst the of what we propose to do during the next 12 slowing— months. One of the more important trade Mr Tanner—What’s been happening policy tasks we are going to undertake is to since then? strengthen the bilateral relationship with the new US administration later on this week. I Mr SPEAKER—Member for Melbourne, will be travelling to the US to meet the new for the third time! USTR, Bob Zoellick, to talk about issues Mr VAILE—Whilst the slowing global revolving around the WTO later on this year, economy poses challenges for Australian the ministerial APEC and the possibilities of exporters, Australian exporters continue to a bilateral free trade agreement. do an outstanding job as far as Australia is The important point is that we have con- concerned and as far as the strength of our tinued to work to strengthen economic cir- economy is concerned. I would like to in- cumstances in Australia to facilitate a better form the House that the latest monthly trade trading opportunity. We have embarked upon figures show a substantial improvement in economic reform, which has strengthened the balance of trade in February 2001 over the opportunity for Australia’s exporters. We the previous month. The balance of trade have embarked upon workplace relations moved from a deficit of $89 million in Janu- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26141 reform, waterfront reform and taxation re- he had read the draft bill which I released for form—all of which have undeniably public comment last Thursday, he would strengthened the position of Australia’s ex- know it was very clear that we intend to pay port industries. All reform projects that we for only one of those referrals. The intention have undertaken have been opposed at every of the policy is to provide greater choice for turn by the Australian Labor Party. At the patients. That is the Labor Party’s policy. end of last week, we saw some good news Mr SPEAKER—The member for Jaga- for the Australian economy, good news for jaga knows she cannot advance an argument. Australian exporters. To date, I have not seen She has indicated where she has been mis- an acknowledgment of that from the Austra- represented. lian Labor Party. Ms MACKLIN—It is not the corporati- Mr Howard—Mr Speaker, I ask that sation of medicine, which is the govern- further questions be placed on the Notice ment’s policy. Paper. Mr CREAN (Hotham) (3.28 p.m.)—Mr PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS Speaker, I wish to make a personal explana- Ms MACKLIN (Jagajaga) (3.27 p.m.)— tion. Mr Speaker, I wish to make a personal ex- Mr SPEAKER—Does the honourable planation. member claim to have been misrepresented? Mr SPEAKER—Does the honourable Mr CREAN—I do, Mr Speaker. member claim to have been misrepresented? Mr SPEAKER—Please proceed. Ms MACKLIN—I do, Mr Speaker, twice, in question time. Mr CREAN—Today in question time, the Minister for Education, Training and Youth Mr SPEAKER—Please proceed. Affairs claimed to have introduced the Jobs Ms MACKLIN—In question time, the Pathway initiative instead of Labor under my Minister for Health and Aged Care misrepre- stewardship. That is not correct. As the re- sented the Labor Party’s policy on the corpo- ports of the department show, the programs ratisation of medicine. It is quite clear in our in 1995-96, when I was the minister, have a policy on the issue of GPs being required to clear heading ‘Jobs Pathway guarantee’ at issue three names of specialists with whom a page 81. It was an initiative we introduced patient could consult— under the Working Nation program. Cer- Mr SPEAKER—The member for Jaga- tainly it is there in their 1996-97 program. It jaga must indicate where she has been mis- is simply called the Jobs Pathway program. represented. Mr SPEAKER—The Deputy Leader of Ms MACKLIN—That is what he said the Opposition must indicate where he has about the member for Jagajaga. He made that been misrepresented. reference. Mr CREAN—It is a change in name—no Mr SPEAKER—The member for Jaga- change in substance, but just cuts to the pro- jaga may proceed. gram itself. Ms MACKLIN—It is quite clear in the Mr STEPHEN SMITH (Perth) (3.29 policy that we released last Thursday that an p.m.)—Mr Speaker, I wish to make a per- exception will be allowed to cover any situa- sonal explanation. tion where the doctor thinks there are only Mr SPEAKER—Does the honourable one or two specialists capable of providing member claim to have been misrepresented? the treatment. It is unfortunate that the min- Mr STEPHEN SMITH—Yes. ister did not properly read the policy state- ment. The second area where he misrepre- Mr SPEAKER—Please proceed. sented me was when he suggested that we Mr STEPHEN SMITH—Last week in would be paying for all of these referrals. If the Senate, during debate on a message from 26142 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 the House on the Broadcasting Legislation Now that a clear strategic and capability plan is in Amendment Bill 2001, the Minister for place, it is not appropriate for the Opposition to Communications, Information Technology announce or speculate on specific defence equip- and the Arts, Senator Alston, asserted that, ment or force structure issues before the election. following a discussion between my office Only governments, with full access to expert ad- and his, I had undertaken that no amend- vice within the Defence Organisation should do ments to the House’s message would be so once the overall plan is in place. moved by the opposition in the Senate during That is a view contained at paragraph 8.2 of debate on the message. In the face of such the government’s own white paper when it amendments being moved by the opposition says that the defence capability plan will not in the Senate, Senator Alston, during debate, remain immutable over the next decade, that alleged treacherous and dishonourable con- it will be reviewed annually and that individ- duct on my part. The facts are these. Subse- ual projects will have to be considered and quent to the discussion between my office approved by governments before proceeding. and Senator Alston’s office, I said, during Ms KERNOT (Dickson) (3.31 p.m.)—Mr debate on the bill in the House: Speaker, I seek leave to make a personal ex- This issue is not concluded. We are not finished, planation. and when the matter returns to the Senate, Sena- Mr SPEAKER—Does the honourable tor Bishop, my representative in that place, will member for Dickson claim to have been mis- move a similar set of amendments or motions. represented? In the event, that is what occurred—of which there was notice. Suggestions made by Ms KERNOT—I do, Mr Speaker. Senator Alston are entirely fallacious and Mr SPEAKER—Please proceed. without foundation; they are a cover for his Ms KERNOT—In question time today lack of policy merit. the Treasurer read from a letter that I wrote. Dr MARTIN (Cunningham) (3.30 p.m.)— My letter did not say that the GST had Mr Speaker, I seek leave to make a personal solved Commonwealth-state financial rela- explanation. tions as he implied. In fact, it said that it Mr SPEAKER—Does the honourable raised a much bigger, serious question. In member for Cunningham claim to have been fact, what responsibilities are left for a coali- misrepresented? tion government that is walking away from responsibility for anything except raising a Dr MARTIN—I do. GST? Mr SPEAKER—Please proceed. Mr SPEAKER—The member for Dick- Dr MARTIN—I have been misrepre- son must indicate where she has been mis- sented on two occasions by the Minister for represented. Defence in his response to a question on La- QUESTIONS TO MR SPEAKER bor’s defence policy and specifically in quoting me from a media release. Firstly, the Questions on Notice minister said that Labor’s policy would not Ms ELLIS (3.32 p.m.)—Mr Speaker, I be released until after the election. In fact, seek your assistance under standing order the quote which he should have used from 150 in relation to question No. 2072 dated my media release of Tuesday, 13 March was: October 2000 to the Minister for Aged Care Labor’s detailed defence policy will be released and question No. 1600 dated 5 June 2000, before the election. again to the Minister for Aged Care. I actu- ally brought these matters to your attention Secondly, he went on to misrepresent our on 7 February, but I still have not received a position in respect of force structure by mis- response to either question from the minister. quoting me again from the same release. That release said: Mr SPEAKER—I will follow up the matters raised by the member for Canberra as the standing orders provide. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26143

Questions on Notice was the first time on which a point of order Mr JENKINS (3.33 p.m.)—Mr Speaker, by the honourable member for Parramatta on 6 November 2000 I placed on the Notice was at least partially successful. Paper question No. 2129 to the Prime Min- Mr SPEAKER—The member for ister regarding the Australian Sports Medal. Denison will resume his seat. The member At the time I thought it a simple question, for Denison does not have the call. but it appears to be as unplayable as a PETITIONS Harbhajan Singh off break, as it remains un- answered after 147 days. The Clerk—Petitions have been lodged for presentation as follows and copies will be Mr SPEAKER—The member for Scullin referred to the appropriate ministers: knows that this is a simple request that needs to be followed up. Australian Broadcasting Corporation: Independence and Funding Mr JENKINS—I ask that, in accordance with standing order 150, you write to the To the Honourable the President and Members of the Senate in Parliament assembled: Prime Minister seeking reasons for the delay in answering. The petition of the undersigned shows: (1) our strong support for our independent na- Mr SPEAKER—I will follow up the tional public broadcaster, the Australian matter raised by the member for Scullin as Broadcasting Corporation; the standing orders provide. (2) our concern at the sustained political and fi- Questions on Notice nancial pressure that the Howard Government Mr EMERSON (3.33 p.m.)—Mr Speaker, has placed on the Australian Broadcasting I, too, seek your assistance under standing Corporation (ABC), including: order 150. Tomorrow marks the first anni- (a) the 1996 and 1997 Budget cuts which re- versary of my asking question No. 1290 on duced funding to the ABC by $66 million the Notice Paper of the Treasurer. On four per year; and previous occasions I have asked you to write (b) its failure to fund the ABC’s transition to to him to ask him to provide an answer. Can digital broadcasting; you assure the Treasurer that it is not a trick (3) our concern about recent decisions made by question—it is quite straightforward—and the ABC Board and senior management, in- could I have an answer please? cluding the Managing Director Jonathan Shier, which we believe may undermine the Mr SPEAKER—I will follow up the independence and high standards of the ABC matter as the standing orders provide. including: Questions on Notice (a) the cut to funding for News and Current Mr HORNE (3.34 p.m.)—Mr Speaker, on Affairs; 6 September I put a question to the Prime (b) the reduction of the ABC’s in-house pro- Minister on notice. As it is relevant to de- duction capacity; fence and particularly to the airborne early (c) the closure of the ABC TV Science Unit; warning aircraft—that is of particular im- (d) the circumstances in which the decision portance to the electorate of Paterson—I ask was made not to renew the contract of that you write to him and seek an answer. Media Watch presenter Mr Paul Barry; Mr SPEAKER—I will follow up the and matter raised by the member for Paterson as (e) consideration of the Bales Report, which the standing orders provide. recommended the extension of the ABC’s commercial activities in ways that may be Member for Parramatta: Points of Order inconsistent with the ABC Act and the Mr KERR (3.34 p.m.)—Mr Speaker, I Charter; have a question of you. I wonder whether Your petitioners ask that the Senate should: you could consult the parliamentary records (1) protect the independence of the ABC; because, to the best of my knowledge, today 26144 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

(2) ensure that the ABC receives adequate fund- Fuel Prices ing; To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of (3) call upon the Government to rule out its sup- the House of Representatives assembled in the port for the privatisation of any part of the Parliament of Australia. ABC, particularly JJJ, ABC On-line and the The petition of certain citizens of Australia draws ABC Shops; and to the attention of the House the extremely high (4) call upon the ABC Board and senior man- price of petrol and other fuels and the increase in agement to: the amount of tax on fuel due to: (a) fully consult with the people of Australia The Government’s failure to keep its promise that about the future of our ABC; the price of petrol and other fuels would not rise (b) address the crisis in confidence felt by as a result of the new tax system, by reducing the both staff and the general community; and excise by the full amount of the GST; (c) not approve any commercial activities in- The charging of the GST on the fuel excise, consistent with the ABC Act and Charter. making it a tax-on-a-tax. by Mr Bevis (from 25 citizens), Your petitioners therefore ask the House to: by Mr Martin Ferguson (from 50 citi- Rescind the indexed rise in the price of fuel, zens) and which took effect on February 1, 2001; Hold the Government to its promise that its poli- by Ms Hall (from 7 citizens). cies would not increase the price of petrol and Fuel Prices other fuel; To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of Support a full Senate inquiry into the taxation and the House of Representatives assembled in Par- pricing of petrol; liament. Consider the best way to return the fuel tax wind- The petition of certain citizens of Australia draws fall to Australian motorists. to the attention of the House the extremely high by Mr Bevis (from 89 citizens). price of petrol and other fuels and the increase in the amount of tax on fuel due to: United Nations Convention on the The Government’s failure to keep its promise Elimination of All Forms of that the price of petrol and other fuels would Discrimination Against Women not rise as a result of the new tax system, by To the Honourable the Speaker and the Members reducing the excise by the full amount of the of the House of Representatives assembled in GST; Parliament. The fuel indexation increases on 1 August We the undersigned citizens of Australia draw to 2000 and 1 February 2001, which will be sig- the attention of the House the anger felt by many nificantly higher than usual because of the in- women and women’s organisations and individu- flationary impact of the GST; and als at the decision of the Federal Government to The charging of the GST on the fuel excise, not sign the Optional Protocol to the UN Con- making it a tax-on-a-tax. vention on the Elimination of All forms of Dis- crimination Against Women (CEDAW); the Fed- Your petitioners therefore request the House to: eral Government’s decision to not participate in Hold the Government to its promise that its the various UN Human Rights Committees and policies would not increase the price of pet- the decision of the Federal Government to amend rol and other fuel; the Sex Discrimination Act 1983 without consul- Support a full Senate inquiry into the taxation tation with or respect for the wishes of affected and pricing of petrol; groups. Consider the best way to return the fuel tax Your petitioners therefore request that the House windfall to Australian motorists. require the Federal Government to reconsider and to make any further decisions only after the Gov- by Mr Bevis (from 261 citizens), ernment has held consultations with those citizens by Ms Hall (from 74 citizens) and likely to be affected by such decisions or as the by Mr Sciacca (from 66 citizens). result of consultations with women’s organisa- tions. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26145

by Ms Hoare (from 15 citizens) and We the undersigned request that the government by Ms Plibersek (from 25 citizens) reopen Belmont Medicare Office as there is no Medicare office between Charlestown and Lake Health: General Practitioners and Haven and there has been a drastic decline in the Medicare numbers of general practitioners bulkbilling. To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of The closure of Belmont Medicare Office has the House of Representatives assembled in Par- caused great hardship to many local residents liament. particularly the elderly and those with young The petition of certain citizens of Australia draws children. to the attention of the House the need for more Your petitioners request that the House of Repre- general practitioners in their residential area to sentatives do everything in their power to ensure replace those lost through retirement or reloca- that Belmont Medicare Office is reopened as a tion. matter of urgency. Your petitioners therefore ask the House to sup- by Ms Hall (from 48 citizens). port their petition through the following meas- Centrelink: Job Cuts ures: To the Honourable Speaker and Members of the The release of more provider numbers for general House of Representatives assembled in Parlia- practitioners; ment. Increase the Medicare payment rebates and bulk The Petition of the undersigned shows we are billing fees in line with inflation. opposed to the Government’s funding cuts to by Mr Bartlett (from 502 citizens). Centrelink, which will mean the loss of 5,000 Asylum Seekers: Work Rights Centrelink jobs. To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of This staff cut will mean increased waiting times, the House of Representatives in Parliament as- reduced access and reduced service levels for sembled: clients. Whereas the 1998 Synod of the Anglican Diocese It will place more stress on an already under- of Melbourne carried without dissent the follow- staffed and underfunded service. ing Motion: It is an attack on our right to an efficient and ac- That this Synod regrets the Government’s adop- cessible social security system. tion of procedures for certain people seeking po- Your petitioners request that the House of Repre- litical asylum in Australia which exclude them sentatives should stop the Centrelink staff cuts. from all public income support while withholding by Ms Hall (from 89 citizens). permission to work, thereby creating a group of beggars dependent on the Churches and charities Kirkpatrick, Private John Simpson for food and the necessities of life; To the Honourable Speaker and Members of Par- and calls upon the Federal government to review liament of the House of Representatives assem- such procedures immediately and remove all bled in Parliament. practices which are manifestly inhumane and in We the undersigned request that John Simpson some cases in contravention of our national obli- Kirkpatrick, of Simpson and the donkey fame, be gations as a signatory of the UN Covenant on awarded a Victoria Cross of Australia. Civil and Political Rights. Under the Imperial Award system, the award of We, therefore, the individual, undersigned Mem- the Victoria Cross was denied to ‘Simpson’ as the bers of the Elsternwich Baptist Church, Elstern- result of an error in the original application. A wick, Victoria 3185, petition the House of Repre- second application, in 1967, was also denied as sentatives in support of the abovementioned mo- the British Government claimed a dangerous tion. precedent would be set, in spite of such a prece- by Mr Danby (from 5 citizens). dent already existing. Medicare: Belmont Office Your petitioners request that the House of Repre- sentatives do everything in their power to ensure To the Honourable Speaker and Members of the the appropriate recognition of John Simpson House of Representatives assembled in Parlia- Kirkpatrick. ment. by Ms Hall (from 39 citizens). 26146 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

Food Labelling the unfair rules of the Aged Persons Savings Bo- To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of nus scheme which has failed to deliver on the the House of Representatives assembled in Par- Government’s election promise of $1,000 for liament. each aged person over 60; The undersigned citizens and residents of the misleading claim of a four per cent pension Australia call on you to: increase when in fact it is only a two per cent increase after taking into account Mr Howard’s Label all Genetically Engineered foods that may two per cent clawback; be approved for sale; the complete inadequacy of both the bonuses and Ensure pies contain meat and jam contains fruit; pension increase to compensate for the double Make food labels reflect the true nature of the taxation of Australia’s retirees. contents; Your petitioners condemn the Government’s Ensure that the Australia New Zealand Food contempt for older Australians and request the Authority (ANZFA)—the food safety watch- Parliament explore ways in which the GST can be dog—is adequately resourced to protect our food. made fairer and simpler and compensation im- And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will proved to protect the living standards of elderly ever pray. Australians. by Ms Hall (from 40 citizens). by Ms Hall (from 38 citizens). Telstra: Privatisation Health: Bulk-Billing To the Honourable Speaker and Members of the To the Honourable Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives assembled in Parlia- House of Representatives assembled in Parlia- ment. ment. These petitioners of the Division of Shortland and We the undersigned request that the Government adjoining areas are deeply concerned at any plans take action to preserve bulkbilling and to to further privatise Telstra. strengthen the Medicare system. Further privatisation of Telstra will result in the The cessation of bulkbilling by many general loss of thousands more Telstra jobs, worsening practitioners as a direct result of government services to regional and rural Australia, and the policy has caused great hardship to many local loss of up to $1 billion a year for all Australians residents on low incomes particularly the elderly earned from Telstra profits. and those with young children. We believe these profits, both now and in the Your petitioners request that the House of Repre- future, should be set aside to secure improved sentatives introduce legislation to ensure that educational opportunities for our children, in- bulkbilling is preserved and that our Medicare creased research and development funds for our system is strengthened. scientists and doctors, and more money for rural by Ms Hall (from 161 citizens). and regional Australia. Roads: F3 Freeway Your petitioners therefore respectfully request To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of that the House reject any further sale of the the House of Representatives assembled in Par- Commonwealth’s shares in Telstra and that the liament: annual profits from Telstra be used for the benefit of all Australians. The petition of certain citizens of Australia draws to the attention of the House: by Ms Hall (from 74 citizens). The continuing traffic congestion, extensive de- Goods and Services Tax: Pensioner Bonus lays and accidents which occur regularly on the and Pension Increase F3 Freeway, particularly between the Hawkes- To the Honourable Speaker and Members of the bury River and the Gosford interchange, resulting House of Representatives assembled in Parlia- in excessive transport costs, loss of productivity ment. and driver frustration. The petition of certain electors of Australia draws Your petitioners therefore request the House to the attention of the House to the unfairness and demand both the Commonwealth and the NSW inadequacy of the GST compensation for elderly State Government take immediate action to widen Australians, in particular: the F3 Freeway. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26147

by Mr Lloyd (from 521 citizens). This petition of certain citizens of Australia draws HMAS Hawkesbury: Medical Treatment to the attention of the House that current legisla- tion is insufficient to protect the health of the To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of people of Australia from the dangers of micro- the House of Representatives assembled in the wave radiation emitting from mobile phone tele- Parliament: communication towers. The petition of certain citizens of Australia draws Your petitioners therefore request that the House the attention of the House to: amend current legislation to: (1) the plight of sailors who served aboard the Safeguard the people of Australia against health HMAS Hawkesbury during the Atomic testing at threatening electromagnetic non-ionising radia- Monte Bello in the 1950s; tion emitting from mobile phone telecommunica- (2) the cases of leukemia diagnosed in ex- tion towers and installations, by restricting the Hawkesbury sailors arising out of this service; siting of these facilities to zones of no less than (3) the fact that some of these sailors have been 800m from residential areas. refused ‘veteran’ status and therefore associated Stop the location siting of mobile phone tele- medical coverage for their conditions. communication towers and installations, includ- Your petitioners therefore ask the House to: ing co-location and multiple siting areas close to residential areas (i.e. homes, schools, hospitals, (1) review the status of the Hawkesbury sailors aged care centres and other such facilities), until with the view to grant them ‘veteran’ status; major research identifies conclusively a safe dis- (2) enact appropriate legislation to ensure that tance for each tower or installation to be located; all of these service men and women receive the Implement immediately a major medical and medical treatment they need resulting from their technological research program, by recognised service to their country. and independent organisations, into the potential by Mr Mossfield (from 782 citizens). adverse health effects of this radiation. Van Oostveen, Mr William: by Mr Sciacca (from 37 citizens). Compensation Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme: Nasal To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of Sprays the House of Representatives assembled in Par- To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of liament. the House of Representatives assembled in Par- The petition of certain citizens of Australia draws liament: to the attention of the House the treatment of Mr This petition of certain residents in Perth in the William Van Oostveen of Bundaberg in Queen- state of Western Australia draws to the attention sland. of the House their view that the Pharmaceutical Mr Van Oostveen, having followed all known Benefit Scheme should include nasal sprays and practices of request and exhausted all avenues of be available to all Australians on the basis of appeal, petitions that he has been unable to obtain need, not on a person’s capacity to pay. satisfaction to requests to obtain copies of file Nasal sprays provide relief to people unfortunate covers applicable to his compensation case and enough to suffer with asthma and other respira- copies of payslips during the period 9 November tory conditions. Their removal from the Pharma- 1989 to 30 November 2000. ceutical Benefit Scheme will impose undue finan- We therefore call on the House to take note of the cial hardship on people on limited incomes and grievance of Mr Van Oostveen and take whatever may ultimately result in detrimental effects on action is necessary to ensure he receives proper their general health and well being. and just treatment within the process of the ad- We believe the responsibility of the Australian ministration of the Australian Government. Government is to all its citizens. by Mr Neville (from 8 citizens). Your petitioners therefore request the House note Telecommunications Towers that those petitioners whose signatures appear below call on the Government to take immediate To the Honourable the Speaker and members of action to reinstate nasal sprays on the Pharma- the House of Representatives assembled in Par- ceutical Benefit Scheme. liament. 26148 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

by Mr Stephen Smith (from 274 citi- This motion relates to the government’s sup- zens). port for renewable energy. In fact, there Bankstown Airport: Proposed Expansion could be no better example of that than the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and For- To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives of Australia. estry today announcing to the House in re- sponse to a question from me that the Com- The petition of the residents of Chipping Norton monwealth’s Greenhouse Gas Abatement and its environs brings to the attention of the House our desperate concern regarding the pro- Program will be funding $8.8 million to- posed expansion of Bankstown Airport. wards an ethanol based fuel distribution system in Brisbane to service the Queensland The noise, traffic and pollution generated by such an expansion will not only be catastrophic to the east coast market. residents, it will devastate the quality of our lives Can I talk about ethanol, which was raised as well as the value of our properties. at a seminar that the Sugar Industry Task The residents of Chipping Norton considers it Force had in Parliament House on 1 June of vital that an Environmental Impact Study (EIS) be last year. There were a number of submis- undertaken regarding any proposal to upgrade sions made to that task force and to the Bankstown Airport. seminar on that day: from Manildra, CSR, The undersigned petitioners request therefore that the Biofuels Association, the University of the House not proceed with the proposal to ex- Queensland, the cane growers, the Mossman pand Bankstown Airport to permit regional air- mill and many others. I would like to draw craft and/or 737 jet aircraft from operating in and the House’s attention to the state of the in- out of that facility. dustry. It is a very healthy industry in Aus- Your petitioners humbly pray that your Honour- tralia. Total annual production is around 110 able House take action to stop the expansion of million litres, produced from Manildra in the Bankstown Airport. seat of Gilmore by a distillery process from by Mrs Vale (from 483 citizens). starch; 50 million litres from CSR, produced Petitions received. from molasses as a by-product of sugarcane PRIVATE MEMBERS BUSINESS milling; in my electorate, 55 million litres; and from Rocky Point, outside Bundaberg, Renewable Energy Resources again produced from molasses, five million Mrs DE-ANNE KELLY (Dawson) (3.38 litres. It is my understanding that Manildra p.m.)—I move: have planned expansion to 100 million litres That this House: and Rocky Point have planned a future ex- (1) notes the Coalition Government’s commit- pansion to nine million litres. ment to renewable energy; Annually the Australian domestic market (2) notes the quality production of ethanol in consumes around 42 million litres, and we Australia; have an export market in the order of 35 (3) notes the use of ethanol as a blend with motor million litres. It is a very healthy industry. spirit and the advantages this offers in terms of: The cost of supply of ethanol into the fuel (a) competitive cost of production; markets in major capital cities is estimated by the Australian Biofuels Association to be (b) opportunities for development; in the order of 69c to 70c per litre. I would (c) environmental benefits; like to quote the Australian Biofuels Asso- (d) motoring efficiency; and ciation’s submission as follows: (e) import replacement; Over the next three to five years, significant re- (4) notes the use of ethanol blends in other coun- ductions in the cost of producing ethanol are an- tries; and ticipated due to technology advances and innova- tion in the existing industry and through the dem- (5) urges the Government to continue its support onstration and commercialisation of new cellu- for development of renewable energy resources lose-to-ethanol technologies. Significant progress and trusts that the use and production of ethanol has already been made. In 1995, the Government will continue to be progressed. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26149 estimated the cost of delivering ethanol fuel to advanced distillery in the world beyond one major city markets was 82 cents a litre. Today it is in Turkey. In fact, it produces such a pure 69c to 70c a litre. This is similar to cost trends in blend, such a pure ethanol, that it is exported the United States, Canada and Brazil. to Japan to be made into sake. So you really But the good news about ethanol certainly cannot get much higher in the ethanol world does not end there. The benefits of an etha- than being used by the Japanese to make nol blended fuel are many. Based on the lat- sake. est available research—the APACE Re- Ethanol is a clear, colourless flammable search report—the following conclusions oxygenated hydrocarbon with the chemical have been drawn. It is estimated that the formula C2H2O5—for those of us who re- 1999 passenger vehicle fleet comprises ap- member our secondary school chemistry. It is proximately 25 per cent pre-1986 vehicles also commonly known as alcohol and, as we using leaded petrol and 75 per cent 1986-on have seen, is used in sake. Ethanol is blended vehicles using unleaded petrol. The results of normally at five per cent or 10 per cent con- the project that was undertaken for the 1999 centrations, termed E5 or E10 respectively. fleet composition show that, when compared But it has been used in concentrations of up to use of neat petrol, use of a 10 per cent to 24 per cent, E24, and up to 85 per cent, ethanol-petrol blend has the following ef- E85, in some countries. As I said before, fects—and this is on regulated exhaust emis- ethanol blended with petrol serves as an sions: a 10 per cent blend reduces carbon oxygenator, enhancer and extender. In fact, monoxide by approximately 32 per cent. in Brazil many of the vehicles run on 100 per THC decreases by approximately 12 per cent cent ethanol. and noxious particulates by approximately one per cent. How much sugarcane does it take to make ethanol? A five per cent blend of ethanol in In the United States, ethanol is widely all the fuel, including diesel, used for road supported. More than 10 per cent of all transportation in Queensland alone would gasoline contains ethanol, and fuel with 10 consume 16 per cent of the entire Queen- per cent ethanol has been certified by the sland sugarcane crop. To supply all of Aus- Environmental Protection Agency to reduce tralia’s fuel needs, a five per cent blend carbon monoxide emissions by up to 30 per would consume all, bar four per cent, of the cent. Since 1981 more than 152 billion gal- entire Queensland sugar crop. It is obviously lons of ethanol blends have been used in the a wonderful way of working for the envi- USA. It is estimated that vehicles have trav- ronment, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, elled in excess of three trillion miles on ensuring that our farmers are able to play a blended fuel since then in the United States. meaningful role in renewable energy and Ethanol blended petrol has been shown to lowering prices for our motorists—or at least improve engine efficiency and, according to keeping the major oil companies honest. It is the American Institute of Chemical Engi- a meaningful alternative to using either do- neers, using ethanol was ‘very similar in mestically refined fuels or imported fuels. driving characteristics to straight gasoline, except that pre-ignition and dieseling run on Ethanol is produced not only from sugar- are noticeably reduced and acceleration can cane but by distilling anything with a high be improved’ with ethanol. So it is a wonder- starch content, such as corn or cassava. It can ful initiative for the federal government to even be made from municipal solid waste or have acted on and taken up. old newspapers. So there is a wonderful op- portunity to use waste products from sugar I would like to talk about ethanol blends milling operations, the wheat industry or for a while. Ethanol is a high octane hydro- even city council municipalities. A number carbon produced from the fermentation of of countries use ethanol. Brazil, as I have sugar or converted starch. We produce it at mentioned, typically uses 24 per cent, but Sarina, just south of Mackay, in my elector- sometimes up to 100 per cent, and has pro- ate and, ironically, ours is the second most 26150 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 duced 16 billion litres per annum on a regu- today?’ We would see that, but you got rid of lar basis. Canada uses ethanol and Europe the incentive to encourage industry to pro- produces ethanol as well. ceed. The major argument was that the price I am delighted that the federal govern- of petroleum at that time did not support the ment, through the Greenhouse Office and development of the ethanol industry. It is through its $8.8 million grant, has seen fit to very easy to look back and ignore the facts as promote and support the blending of ethanol they appeared at the time but, if only some- with fuels for the east coast of Queensland. I one in the government had had the vision to know my colleague the member for Gilmore maintain that 16c a litre, I believe we would will speak more about this. She is also a be much like the United States, because at great supporter of ethanol as an alternative the same time as we were axing it the ethanol energy. I leave the House with this. industry in United States was growing at an enormous rate. Why was it growing? Be- Mrs Gash—I second the motion and re- cause scientists in United States, just like serve my right to speak. scientists in Australia, recognised that by Mr HORNE (Paterson) (3.49 p.m.)—I blending petrol with ethanol you received was very interested to see this motion and I major environmental advantages. am quite delighted to speak to it. One of the This is what happened in the Midwest things that interests and concerns me is that corn belt. The United States government the member for Dawson says that the gov- passed legislation forcing oil companies to ernment should be congratulated. The mem- have a blend. Why? Because ethanol is an ber is probably unaware that in 1996, when oxygenator—it encourages the complete this government came to power, there was a burning of petroleum in a motor. So it re- 16c a litre bounty payable to anyone who duces the gaseous emissions and the photo- wanted to invest in and generate new etha- chemical smogs that are traditional with nol. At its very first budget, the Howard- temperature inversions in those areas. It has Costello-Fischer government wiped that cleaned up vast areas of the United States. bounty. The United States government did what this Mr O’Connor—They axed it. government was not prepared to do and leg- Mr HORNE—They got rid of it. So, if islated to compel, particularly in certain ar- the member wants to come in here and tell us eas, that ethanol be used as an oxygenator. how good the government have been, let me That has seen the United States growing corn remind her that when I first came to Can- purely to get the starch from it, to ferment it berra in 1993 the ACTION buses of Can- and produce the ethanol by distillation. berra were using a 90 per cent-10 per cent Ethanol has enormous potential. We are diesel-ethanol blend, diesahol, because it is producing it from starch residues that come an Australian company, APACE Research, from the Manildra plant down at the Shoal- that holds the worldwide patents for making haven. We are producing it as a by-product diesahol. A 90 per cent-10 per cent blend from the production of sugar and also molas- requires no modification of the standard die- ses. We ferment them and we can distil it sel motor but produces enormous benefits as from the fermented materials. In Australia far as pollution is concerned. In New South we should be looking at a process of pro- Wales the petroleum company Bogas has ducing it by ligno-cellulosics. That is pro- been using a 90 per cent-10 per cent blend ducing ethanol from cellulose. In 1992 an for at least the past five years. Australian scientist, Dr Russell Reeves, was So, if the members opposite want to give very influential with the then Minister for the government a pat on the back, at the Industry, Science and Technology, Alan Grif- same time be honest enough to say, ‘Isn’t it a fiths, and a $2 million grant was made avail- shame that in 1996 we axed a major incen- able to industry. I believe that grant is still tive that, if it had continued, would have there—it has never been used. It required seen a major ethanol industry in Australia industry to match the grant dollar for dollar Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26151 to set up a trial plant to produce ethanol from determination of the current Treasurer to cellulose. balance the books and to take money out of Admittedly, over recent years it would industry research and development, we saw probably have been cost ineffective to have that much-needed impetus to develop that produced ethanol as a fuel simply by grow- industry removed. ing sugar, taking the sucrose out of it and I am quite happy for this to be biparti- fermenting it. I know it is done in Brazil, san—I am sorry that it was not introduced where the sugar crop is vast. I do not believe into the House that way—because it is only that you can buy straight petrol in Brazil. I by being bipartisan that we will develop a believe you can buy only petrol-ethanol or much needed new energy system. Everyone diesel-ethanol blends or that, as the member knows that one day out there the latest oil said, some cars run on 100 per cent ethanol. well to be dug will not generate any oil. Un- There is no reason why we could not be do- fortunately, we are being controlled by oil ing the same. But the stock material could be cartels. I am aware of the ERDC and how much cheaper than either the sucrose or the much it worked against the establishment of starch. It could be from forest waste or it an ethanol industry in the early nineties. I am could be from municipal waste—a lot of aware that oil companies are coming on cellulose goes into that—because cellulose board now only because they know, as the will also ferment and produce ethanol. member for Dawson said, that they can go It is a tragedy, when we look back over out and buy a litre of ethanol cheaper than the past five years of this government, that it they can buy a litre of petrol or a litre of die- did not have the vision, it did not look down sel and that they can blend it. What I want to the path, to say that one day Australia will know is: will they pass on the savings to not be self-sufficient in its hydrocarbon fuel Australian consumers? No, and that is part of supplies and that one day we will have to the problem we have. I think that as late as develop an industry to generate our own liq- last year Serena ethanol was selling for about uid fuels. We can talk about electricity as an 30c a litre. I may be wrong, but I think that energy source, but let us face it: people want was the situation. If you can blend it straight to be able to take their car into a service sta- into unleaded petrol and you do not have to tion and fill up with a liquid energy—and modify the motor at all, that is a saving that that is what ethanol offers. It is also a tragedy should be passed on to motorists. I would in that Australia has the scientist, Dr Russell like to see the whole of parliament work to- Reeves, who is one of the principals of wards that. Be aware that this argument has APACE Research. One of the reasons that I been going on for a number of years and it is am aware of ethanol is that he lives in my only now that the high price of crude oil is electorate and I talk with him regularly. I forcing the oil companies to sit up and take know how disappointed he has been as we notice. (Time expired) have watched the price of crude oil escalate Mrs GASH (Gilmore) (3.59 p.m.)—I am to its current level. We can now sit back and very anxious to speak to this motion, as it is say, ‘What an opportunity has gone missing. a topic that affects every Australian citizen— We should have that ethanol industry.’ but, even more, it affects those in Gilmore I support what happened in Brisbane over and certainly those in the area of my col- the weekend. I support that because it is the league the member for Dawson as both of us logical way to go. The shame of it is that it have very large ethanol plants in our elector- should have happened much earlier. I believe ates. As it is some distance from the capital that the Labor Party, back in 1995, when cities, Gilmore certainly experiences high David Beddall put that 16c a litre bounty on petrol prices—up to 10c more, in fact—and the generation of new ethanol, had the for- they seem to fluctuate in defiance of what I ward policy to allow a new energy industry know to be happening on the world scene. In to develop. Unfortunately, because of the other words, Gilmore, like many other places, is at the mercy of greedy oil compa- 26152 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 nies that manipulate the markets to suit their this efficiently and without waste, and the pockets or for other, more political motives. federal government last year gave them an- For instance, it was interesting that, on the other $1 million grant to commercialise their same day that the new tax system was intro- invention. duced, all petrol discounting stopped right Why are we interested in ethanol and what across Australia, so the price of petrol went is the environmental benefit and motoring up and everyone blamed it on the GST. The efficiency to be gained? As you have heard, oil companies laughed all the way to the you can put 10 per cent ethanol into your bank, but they also really muscled the cur- petrol tank or 20 per cent into your diesel rent government with that trick. You have to tank and drive your car without any modifi- wonder why they did it. Of course there was cations at all. What happens is that the etha- the profit motive, but I think that there was a nol leads to a higher temperature burn of the bigger agenda here. It is my belief that we fuel in the engine, which reduces the green- are starting to have an impact on the oil house gas emissions by about 25 per cent— companies and their collusion to keep prices something we tend to forget. So, in this small the way they want them. Through our com- way, by using ethanol produced by Manildra petition strategies and through investigations at Bomaderry in my electorate of Gilmore, by the ACCC, I think we are finally making we could reduce by 25 per cent the emission their lives more difficult, and they do not like of gases that are harmful to our environment it. In fact, I would take their actions against in the whole of New South Wales. People us as a bit of a backhanded compliment, be- might be jumping up and saying, ‘You cause they are reacting against our extra beauty! I want some of that ethanol—where pressure. No doubt they think that with this can I get it?’ The answer is that at the mo- extra pressure their lives might be easier un- ment ethanol is very difficult to get. Only der Labor, who traditionally give in. some small independent fuel wholesalers and Along with other actions on the petrol retailers are offering this fuel and ethanol front, this government has been supporting mix, and they are under constant pressure the development and commercialisation of from the big fuel companies. ‘Why isn’t it alternative fuels and propulsion methods. In more widely available?’ I hear you asking. Gilmore, the Manildra Group has established The answer is: because the major oil compa- an ethanol plant to make better use of the nies do not control it, do not own it and waste products from its starch and glucose therefore will not let it on their sites. processing. Three years ago the federal gov- I will be fully supporting this government ernment granted $1 million to Manildra in in its efforts towards the development of re- Bomaderry to further develop this ethanol newable energy technology. In the electorate plant. That was more than the bounty fee, of Gilmore, the Solar Sailor project also re- and we also got rid of the excise tax. As ceived $1 million in development funds. Not usual, Manildra—a firm with a reputation for only does this provide further innovation and constant research and improvement of proc- research for Gilmore and the area, it provides essing—took the lead and undertook major a positive benefit in our efforts to redeem the work on refining ethanol. It is apparently an cost of fuel and to eliminate our dependence easy thing to distil this alcohol to about 95 on the overseas countries that are holding the per cent purity, with the other five per cent country to ransom. I fully support the motion being mainly water. But, as we know, cars do and applaud the government’s commitment not like water in their engines as it will nei- to renewable energy. Hopefully, the govern- ther compress nor ignite in the cylinder, so ment will go one step further and look at the the important work was to eradicate the five mandatory use of proven renewable sources per cent water from the alcohol. This motion of energy for the Australian people, both for highlights the advantages that ethanol offers financial reasons and for their proven bene- in terms of the competitive costs of produc- fits to the environment. I will be fully sup- tion. Manildra have now invented ways to do porting this government’s commitment to Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26153 developing alternative energy resources such opportunities for the ethanol industry to ex- as ethanol. pand in Australia with waste biomass from Ms HALL (Shortland) (4.03 p.m.)—I find agriculture, especially from sugar cane, and it most heartening to hear members on the we have heard a little bit already about the other side of this parliament, members of the Manildra plant that is operating in Australia. government, making a commitment to re- The environmental benefits are enormous. newable energy. Unfortunately, the record of There are countries already using ethanol, this government’s commitment and actions such as Brazil, which is using 16 to 17 bil- in relation to renewable energy has been dis- lion litres a year, and the US, which is using appointing, and the ethanol industry in Aus- 7 billion litres. tralia has been the victim of this lack of The government abolished the bounty commitment. In the Howard government’s scheme and replaced it with grants that come first budget in 1996, it axed the three-year to about $10 million. The Howard govern- $25 million ethanol bounty scheme—a ment abolished the scheme that invested $25 scheme that was designed to allow and to million in the development of the Australian increase research into the ethanol industry. ethanol industry and replaced it with a paltry There was still $21 million of that bounty $10 million worth of grants from the Austra- scheme unclaimed. The axing of this scheme lian Greenhouse Office. This is a deficit of really shows you the commitment of the $15 million. If reducing the investment in the government to the ethanol industry in Aus- Australian ethanol industry by $15 million is tralia. I read what the minister was quoted as supposed to be a commitment, I would hate saying in the Canberra Times today: to see what the Howard government would Mr Truss said the ethanol blend fuel had wide- do to an industry it had no commitment to. ranging advantages including reducing green- (Time expired) house-gas emissions by 1.1 million tonnes over Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER—Order! The five years, cutting dependency on fossil fuels and time allotted for the debate has expired. The helping rural communities. debate is adjourned and the resumption of I ask: if this is what the ethanol industry can the debate will be made an order of the day do for Australia, why has it taken the gov- for the next sitting. ernment so long to make any sort of com- Telstra: Privatisation mitment to the industry? The actions of this government have in fact endangered the Mr SERCOMBE (Maribyrnong) (4.08 Australian ethanol industry. The Fuel Etha- p.m.)—I move: nol Association of Australia wanted to set up That, in the light of the strong views of many a network of ethanol plants throughout Aus- Australians, and particularly those in provincial tralia; that would have created about 322 and rural areas, the House calls on the Govern- jobs at each of these plants and would have ment to: put $39 million into Australia’s regional (1) clearly indicate that it will not proceed with economies. The Howard government has put the further privatisation of Telstra; and at risk this industry—an industry of the fu- (2) remove the proceeds of further privatisation ture, because without renewable energy we, from its Forward Estimates. as a country, will be left behind. As the Telstra is very much at the core of essential member for Paterson said, one day when you services in relation to information and com- sink that oil well there will be nothing there. munications as we move into the 21st cen- The competitive costs associated with the tury. In much the same way that perhaps in ethanol industry are 80c per litre now, but in the 19th century railways and investment in 1997 they were 70c and they were expected railway infrastructure were seen as critical to go down to 50c. The procrastination of for the economic and social development of this government has led to an increase in the Australia, information and communication cost of production and has set the industry services are critical for that economic and back a number of years. There are substantial social development in this new century. We 26154 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 all ought to be aware that without an active cumstances, one can hardly say that this is an role for the public sector in relation to the organisation that needs an injection of pri- development of communications and infor- vate sector funds. On the contrary, it is really mation services and leaving it totally to mar- underpinning the underlying Commonwealth ket forces means that significant inequities budget surplus that the Treasurer talks about are inevitably going to arise in the way in from time to time. It really makes no sense, which these services are provided. People are other than as an ideological crusade on be- simply going to be left out. The people who half of the federal government, to talk about almost intuitively are most conscious of the the privatisation of this extraordinarily suc- fact that they will be left out without Telstra cessful national institution. In a recent article having at least some active involvement in the October 2000 CEDA Bulletin, the from government in its ownership are people journal of the Committee for the Economic in provincial and rural Australia, and I might Development of Australia, the chief execu- also say, Mr Deputy Speaker Jenkins, in tive of Telstra, Dr Switkowski, talked in electorates like yours and mine in the outer glowing terms about the future. He said that suburbs of major cities. They are the people Telstra had made a successful transition to a who instinctively understand that Telstra new era with major investments in creating a ought to remain in majority government customer services culture. He indicated that ownership. For the same reasons as during the company can demonstrate that it can af- Australia’s development in the 19th century ford the capital investment required to ensure railways were essentially in government it will be successful in the game in five years ownership, the core providers of telecommu- time. This is a most successful Australian nications and information services in this company and one struggles to understand the century ought also to be in government own- ideological obsession of the government in ership. wanting to flog off the remaining 50 per cent Recent evidence of the vital role Telstra of it and in the process undermine its budget plays in this regard was given in the Finan- surplus. cial Review of 14 February in an article How did we get to the situation? We see headed ‘All or nothing: Alston puts the sale fairly continual sleight of hand on the part of sign on Telstra’. Among other things, this government. In its 1998 election platform, article talks about Telstra emerging as the the coalition said: preferred tenderer to provide untimed local The Coalition will legislate to provide that, until calls to remote areas of Australia. The article an independent inquiry certifies that Telstra’s says that seven telcos expressed interest in services are adequate, there will be no further one $150 million contract to improve com- sell-down of the Government’s 51 per cent share. munication services to about 36,000 house- Mr Hardgrave—Hear, hear! holds which pay long-distance rates even for Mr SERCOMBE—I am delighted to hear short distances, but they either withdrew that from the government benches, because from the contract tendering process or were the reality is a little different, as I will dem- defeated by the national carrier. So there is a onstrate. quite up-to-date example of the importance of the role that Telstra plays. Mr Bruce Scott—What about Qantas and Australian Airlines? Some might have arguably said in relation to the airlines a few years ago that there was Mr SERCOMBE—I have talked about a need for further private sector injection of the airlines. This position was reinforced capital. That situation does not exist with when the Besley inquiry was announced. It is Telstra. Last month, Telstra announced a interesting that we are getting an interjection $2.6 billion record half-yearly profit, with a from a National Party minister. It is particu- $515 million half-yearly dividend cheque larly instructive that no member of the Na- going to the federal government from its 51 tional Party is taking part in this debate. per cent stake in this enterprise. In these cir- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26155

We see the commencement of the water- requires certification; it really requires only ing-down of the government’s approach that the adequacy of service levels has been when the Deputy Prime Minister, in a media fully considered and made public. What we release of 12 October 2000, talked about have, therefore, as I said, is a continual legislation to sell more of Telstra not being sleight of hand. We had the Treasurer trying introduced until the plan to address these to obscure the issue only as recently as last issues has been put in place. We begin to see week in answers to questions about the im- a slipping and a sliding, a few semantic pact on the forward estimates of the Telstra games, a few verbal sleights of hand, be- sale. cause we had the Deputy Prime Minister in The Treasurer keeps talking about the un- October last year beginning to redefine this derlying cash balances reflected in the mid- matter of legislation and certifying standards. year economic and fiscal outlook as not in- The government said in October last year cluding Telstra and, indeed, that is correct. that legislation would be introduced when But when one compares the underlying cash they have a plan to address these issues, not balances indicated in the outlook statement when it is certified that the issues have been with the headline cash balance, there is a gap solved. over the four years out from here to the The position becomes worse, though, 2003-04 financial year of the relatively small from the point of view of people in various sum of only $37.3 billion—that is, $37.3 parts of remote and rural Australia and outer billion is factored into the government’s for- suburban Australia when we look at a further ward estimates, as reflected in the November diminution of the government’s commitment 2000 Mid Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook on these matters in the midyear economic statement and, overwhelmingly, that repre- and fiscal outlook statement of November sents the proceeds of the sale of Telstra. 2000, where we have the following words: Even on the most generous estimates of what The Government has committed not to introduce the government might derive from the sale of legislation until its plan of action in relation to the Sydney airport and some other relatively independent telecommunications service inquiry minor privatisations, they are not going to into the adequacy of service levels has been fully get to $37.3 billion. So, despite all the obfus- considered and made public. cation of the Treasurer and the claims that We have moved right away from certifica- the Telstra sale is not represented in the un- tion, which was the coalition’s policy at the derlying cash balance of the forward esti- election and at the time the Besley inquiry mates, the reality is that there is $34.3 billion was announced, through to a situation where built in over the next four years, the over- the Deputy Prime Minister is talking not whelming majority of which can come only about certification but about a plan of action from the sale of Telstra. being put in place to address these problems Against that background of the deceit that right through to a situation where we do not is being perpetrated by the government, it even need that any more, to a situation where seems to me that the simplest thing for the we just have to have full consideration and National Party, in particular, to do—if they make public the issues. We are seeing a con- had any guts and any concern about repre- tinuous process of diminution of even the senting their constituency—would be to de- commitments that the government made at mand that the government remove the pro- the election. ceeds of that sale from the forward estimates. The Prime Minister was asked just the They are clearly there. That would in fact other week, in relation to the midyear eco- lend credibility to the original coalition nomic and fiscal outlook, what this repre- statements that they were not going to pro- sented, and he said that the forward estimates ceed until such time as certification of stan- are prepared on the basis of government dards was achieved. But the reality at the policy. Government policy, therefore, as re- moment is that we are dealing with a lot of flected in the outlook statement, no longer ballyhoo, particularly from the National 26156 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

Party. It is built into the budget. Let them fence of Australia from an economic point of take it out if they are fair dinkum. (Time ex- view just to meet the interest repayments that pired) the Australian Labor Party had clocked up Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Jen- during their 13 years in power. It is no good kins)—Is the motion seconded? for any member of the opposition to come into this place to talk about proceeds that Mr Horne—I second the motion and re- may come from government assets without serve my right to speak. also honestly assessing the circumstance of Mr HARDGRAVE (Moreton) (4.18 debt that was created by the way they ran p.m.)—I am delighted to rise to speak on this government and assessing the way govern- particular proposition. The member for ment continues to be run as we run down Maribyrnong was set up, I thought at first, by Labor’s debt—Labor’s $80 billion, $93 bil- the telecommunications union, because it is lion debt. It was many billions more than it their once a quarter day where they put this had been when they took over in 1983. proposition forward. But now I find out that The point is that the government has guar- he has been set up by the bloke who sits be- anteed that there will not be any further sale hind him, the member for Watson, Leo of this organisation, this jewel in the crown McLeay, the man in the Labor Party in as far as government assets are concerned, charge of dumbing down any proposition to until the service question, particularly to ru- a point where no-one can tell right from ral and regional Australia, is well estab- wrong. It is indeed very sad that the poor lished. In other words, we make sure that, member for Maribyrnong has been brought unlike the days when the Labor Party were in forward on this proposition today. Let me power and there were two strands of copper quote clearly what the Treasurer said to the wire going from dead tree to dead tree parliament last week—and it is important through vast tracts of this country, modern that the member for Maribyrnong and others telecommunications facilities, high-speed who may contribute to this debate under- access to the Internet and access to cheaper stand this: long-distance phone calls than were ever This government does not report the proceeds of available when the Australian Labor Party asset sales as revenues, it does not report them as were in power are in fact guaranteed and negative outlays, it does not report them in its assured so that the government instrumental- cash balance, it does not report them in its fiscal balance and, what is more, it uses them to build ity is playing its part in the overall telecom- assets and retire Labor’s debt. munications market. The Treasurer of Australia said that last The main proposition put by the member week in response to questions from both the for Maribyrnong is to do with the concept of opposition and the government on this very selling off something that belongs to every- issue. Of course the thing that needs to be body, like debt in this country belongs to fully understood is that everything this gov- everybody. I believe that, in his contributions ernment has done as far as the sale of assets today, he left open a tremendous opportunity is concerned since they came to power is to for all of us on this side when he talked retire Labor’s debt. about Telstra being a successful entity that should not be sold off. It begs the question: When I was elected the member for were the following not successful entities Moreton in March 1996 I realised, upon when the Australian Labor Party blew them coming to this job, that there was a $93 bil- up against the wall—the Defence Service lion government debt; a position of debt in Housing Corporation loans area, Australian this country where interest repayments, as a Airlines, Qantas and the Commonwealth line item in the budget, were the equivalent Bank? After going to the 1990 federal elec- of the defence vote. In other words, we were tion with the bankers union outside every spending $10 billion on the physical defence Liberal Party and National Party campaign of Australia and over $10 billion in the de- office all around the country saying, ‘Don’t Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26157 vote for the coalition because they are going selling off Ben Chifley’s icon—in the 1993- to privatise the Commonwealth Bank,’ what 94 budget. They showed nothing for it. Not did Labor do when it got into office in 1990? only that, they then ran up a budget deficit of It privatised the Commonwealth Bank. I am $10 billion in the 1995-96 budget. They put sure the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs at the Qantas out for sale and received another $1.4 table would be able to answer this: was the billion—and spent every last dollar. They Moomba to Sydney pipeline system a suc- still went to the financial markets to borrow cessful entity or was that a failure? Labor’s more money to put more Australians into apparent standard is that anything that is a more debt, and they created a circumstance failure you sell off and anything that is suc- where the debt repayment schedule, the in- cessful you keep. What about the Common- terest rate payments, was the equivalent of wealth Serum Laboratories? Labor sold those the defence vote when we came into office. shares at $2.50; they are now worth over They were spending more money than they $30. What about Aerospace Technologies of had; they were mortgaging my children— Australia and the uranium stockpile? The Mr Bruce Scott—My grandchildren. Australian Labor Party sold each and every one of these assets. Mr HARDGRAVE—The minister’s grandchildren— Mr Bruce Scott—And spent the money. Mr Bruce Scott—They are not here yet. Mr HARDGRAVE—Yes, Minister, and spent the money straight away. They intro- Mr HARDGRAVE—They are not here duced the proceeds from each of those sales yet, but when they arrive it would have been into the budget bottom line, and used them to the case. They spent absolutely every last pay today’s expenditure. It is like realising drip of proceeds and said that they were that, because you need some money to buy managing the economy well. For the Austra- petrol to run the car you own, you sell the lian Labor Party to come in here and propose car. In other words, there is absolutely no this—as they do, once a quarter, at the behest sense in taking valuable assets and using of the telecommunications union—and to them for today’s expenditure. For any asset criticise the government’s approach on real- that you sell you have to realise something ising some return on a valuable asset is the worthwhile. In the case of Telstra, a marvel- greatest hypocrisy that any political party lous institution that has wired so much of that claims some sort of responsibility and Australia and plugged so much of Australia some sort of aspiration to run this country into the world, you have to realise an equally could ever claim. The greatest hypocrisy is substantial circumstance as a result of selling under the Labor Party. off this asset—and there can be nothing more We have repaid $50 billion worth of Labor substantial than realising the repayment of Party debt. This has a direct benefit to each the Australian Labor Party’s debt. and every Australian because the cost of The approach to these matters changed servicing that debt—the interest payments, radically when we came into office. Until the lost money off current expenditure—is 1996, whenever the Labor Party sold some money that should be spent on proper pro- form of equity or some sort of asset—not- grams of government, not just on repaying withstanding that they might be taking one excesses, not just on repaying money that asset out and buying another or whatever— has been borrowed at a time when they did they regarded that whole thing as recurrent not need to borrow. We have ensured $50 revenue. In other words, they spent it straight billion is now off that debt. When the time away. In the privatisation of the Common- comes—when the service standards have wealth Bank—the first tranche in November been reached—and we believe Telstra is 1993—the Labor Party received $1.7 billion. ready to be offered on the market again, I That particular $1.7 billion was treated as will fully support the concept of offering revenue. They spent every last dollar—for Telstra to the marketplace. It is a valuable 26158 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 asset. It is an organisation that should realise ice that it should provide—and to the service some real returns. that it used to provide but provides no longer. I think there is something far more sinister As a representative of a rural and regional in place here. This is very typical of most electorate, I am pleased to see that not a sin- things the Labor Party contribute in public gle member of the National Party considers life these days. They promise all: ‘Don’t look this piece of information important enough at the details. If you have a problem, don’t to come into the House. Let me tell you worry, we’ll fix it. Don’t ask me for any ex- about some of the things I find happening amples of how, but we will do it.’ That is with Telstra’s service, and the time it takes to their style; that is how they are trying to install a telephone—maybe the member for sneak back into office. The would-be pre- Eden-Monaro would like to tell us how long tenders who want to be members of cabinet some of his constituents have to wait to get a in a future Labor government have that par- telephone connected. If they have to wait as ticular approach. Why doesn’t the Labor long as I do, they will be grandparents and Party put a policy on the table saying, ‘We’ll they will be worried about the debt their buy Telstra back’? Why doesn’t the Labor grandchildren will owe before they get the Party put a policy on the table that says, ‘We phone on! are going to buy back the Commonwealth Maybe the member for Eden-Monaro Bank, the Commonwealth Serum Laborato- would like to tell us about the loss of jobs in ries and Qantas’? Why don’t they say they rural and regional areas with the partial pri- are going to do what R.F.X. Connor tried to vatisation of Telstra and the other 16,000 do in the mid-1970s that blew the budget out, jobs that have to go with further privatisa- via Mr Khemlani, Gough Whitlam and the tion. Maybe the member for Eden-Monaro Crean family’s icon—these silly approaches will consider that that is important to his to borrowing money to buy back the farm? electorate. Maybe he can tell us abut the Why doesn’t the Labor Party put that policy level of service to consumers, to people who on the table? If they were honest they would. live in small communities and who do not (Time expired) have access to mobile telephones and Inter- Mr HORNE (Paterson) (4.28 p.m.)— net services. Maybe the member for Eden- There’s nothing quite as enlightening as a Monaro can tell us about those things, be- typically arrogant member of the government cause the last speaker certainly did not—all coming in here and standing up and telling he wanted to talk about was debt but what he us what we need to understand. He has the did not tell us was about how personal debt audacity to tell us what we need to under- had ballooned. stand. What I understand from the proposal I could tell you about a few things that if before the chair is that we should not be they were not serious you would laugh selling the remainder of Telstra. Listening to about. As I drive around the electorate of your speech, Comrade, I did not hear one bit Paterson, I can see telephone cables strung of that. All I heard was a lecture on debt, a along the top of fence lines. We all know lecture to a nation where household debt has what happens when there is an electric doubled in the last five years. If your gov- storm. Then there are the connection pits, the ernment is proud of that, use it in one of your junction pits, that are open with loops of ca- advertising campaigns when you go to the ble coming out. I do not blame the techni- election. Say to the people of Australia, ‘You cians one bit for that. Everyone knows that owe twice as much now as when Howard they are controlled by the computer in their and Costello started running this country in vehicle that tells them how long they can 1996,’ because that is exactly what hap- spend on a job and how long before they pened. have to move on to the next job. Once they Let us get back to Telstra. Let us get back connect the cable and the service is avail- to the service that it provides—and the serv- able, it is time for them to move on. They can then come back another day or someone Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26159 else can come back another day and finish it regional Australia in the dark had it not been off. for the coalition government working with Maybe I can tell you about the people who Telstra, Vodafone and Optus towards a are given satellite phones that cost exorbitant commitment to provide CDMA. amounts of money, for which Telstra foots CDMA coverage is now available around the bill, simply because Telstra cannot con- a lot of Eden-Monaro. It was extended to nect the cable. In some areas they will wait Cooma and the Snowy Mountains area at the for up to 12 months, until Telstra have end of 1999. Just how vital something like enough jobs for a trench digger to come this is became evident when in June last year along and dig the trench so that the cable can the dedicated Snowy Scheme SouthCare go in. So they give everyone in the commu- helicopter workers were able to pinpoint the nity a satellite telephone. This is the service location of a missing Canadian bushwalker that paid a $2.6 billion half-year return to the by contacting him on his mobile phone. If we people who own it. That $2.6 billion works had allowed the decline of regional mobile out at $5.2 billion a year and yet the How- phone coverage, as proposed by Labor’s ard-Costello government have sold half of it shutdown of the analog system, the work of and want to sell the other half. organisations like SouthCare would be much The government talk about guaranteeing more difficult. The Labor Party effectively service. Well, let me tell you about service. voted against the extension of mobile phone This is a story that I found quite humorous. I coverage to towns in my electorate such as had a public meeting in the town of Bungendore, Braidwood, Bombala and Gloucester about 12 months ago and people Narooma. There was no coverage there when there told me about the public telephone on I came into parliament. Under Networking Gloucester Railway Station. They said, ‘It the Nation, we are now working on an appli- only costs 30c a call but it doesn’t work too cation for mobile phone coverage from often.’ They said, ‘We won’t complain; we Cooma through to Tumut and off Delegate only pay three-quarters of the price of a Hill—a key area to get mobile phone cover- phone call but it only works about 75 per age to. cent of the time.’ I rang Telstra to tell them The coalition have a strong record on about this public phone that did not work and protecting rural and regional Australia in they said, ‘It doesn’t exist—no such tele- relation to telecommunications. It was this phone exists.’ They sent a technician to have government that introduced Telstra’s cus- a look at it and—surprise, surprise—the peo- tomer service guarantee. That never existed ple of Gloucester were right; they had a tele- under Labor. We have put that in place so phone, and I think it has been put straight that Telstra attract substantial fines when into a Telstra archive. That is the sort of they do not meet their obligations under the service we are getting under this govern- service guarantee. Service is what it is all ment—and it stinks. about, not process. The government have Mr NAIRN (Eden-Monaro) (4.33 p.m.)— indicated that we will not proceed with the I find it interesting that the Labor Party feign full privatisation of Telstra until we are satis- such interest in Telstra because, if it were up fied that arrangements exist to deliver ade- to them, communication services across my quate services, in particular to rural and re- electorate of Eden-Monaro would be pretty gional Australia. We have always made it lacklustre in comparison to what is available clear that our commitment in relation to Tel- today. We have to remember that it was the stra is conditional on that. The government’s Labor Party who forced the closing down of immediate priority is to get more services the analog mobile phone network from 1 into rural and regional areas. These are January 2000. As the alternative digital mo- services that have been made possible by the bile network mainly suited cities and towns, sensible use of the proceeds of the sale of the this move would have left most of rural and first two tranches of Telstra—services in Eden-Monaro such as the extension of SBS 26160 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 coverage from Batemans Bay down to Eden ised not to sell the rest of Telstra until we on the New South Wales South Coast; con- have more adequate standards in rural and tinuous mobile phone coverage along the regional Australia, but I pose the thought Princes, Barton and Federal highways, which that, as Labor have voted against so many of will be happening over the next year or so; our communications initiatives and wound the computer gym, a mobile hands-on Inter- back our mobile phone coverage in their time net training facility that visited towns like in government, what services would need to Queanbeyan, Cooma, Jindabyne, Thredbo, be wound back to fund their GST roll-back if Bombala and Braidwood; start-up funding of they were to get back into government? Do $161,599 for the establishment of the Eden not believe what they say; remember what Community Access Centre, which is now up they did. and running and provides the Eden commu- GRIEVANCE DEBATE nity with computer and Internet access; the Cooma Call and Technology Centre, for Question proposed: which we provided $1.65 million from Net- That grievances be noted. working the Nation; videoconferencing fa- Infrastructure Funding cilities to communities like Bombala and a Mr MARTIN FERGUSON (Batman) high speed multimedia communications net- (4.39 p.m.)—In speaking in the grievance work to serve the South Coast, which has debate today, I refer to the fact that last year been worked on with seed funding out of we watched with some interest the debate in Networking the Nation to do planning there. the media between the Deputy Prime Minis- Also funded by the Telstra sale, the fed- ter and National Party leader, John Ander- eral government’s Accessing the Future ini- son, and the Treasurer as to whether the pro- tiatives are working to improve the natural ceeds from the sale of Kingsford Smith air- environment through the Natural Heritage port should be reinvested in our nation’s in- Trust, to expand access to telecommunica- frastructure, or whether such proceeds tions infrastructure and the Internet, restore should be used to write off government debt. services to regional towns, modernise local Some of us remember that the Deputy Prime government service delivery and provide Minister was talking up the fact that the gov- new high-tech job opportunities in regional ernment had an agenda that would include a areas. This includes the rural transaction massive boost to develop infrastructure, es- centre initiative which provides to regional pecially in regional Australia. areas much needed services such as banking, Last week, what did we get? We saw the postal services and Medicare Easyclaim. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for RTCs are currently in the process of being Transport and Regional Services telling the set up in Bermagui and Braidwood in my people of Sydney and people in regional electorate, and many other communities Australia that the proceeds from the sale of across Eden-Monaro are right now, with fed- Kingsford Smith airport would not be used eral government funding, working out how for the much needed infrastructure develop- they could set up a rural transaction centre in ment that this country needs both in metro- their locality. That is good use of funding politan Australia and in regional Australia. from the Telstra sale: putting services back On the announcement of the Sydney (Kings- in, guaranteeing service through legisla- ford Smith) Airport sale, Mr Anderson ad- tion—all things that never happened under a mitted that there was no such agenda. When Labor government. he was asked why he had decided to ditch The coalition’s plan of providing in- the infrastructure plan which was being creased communications services and other talked about so much last year, he had this to facilities as a result of the partial sale of Tel- say: stra is an initiative that has been widely wel- We pre-empted it. My proposal was (going to be comed in Eden-Monaro—something that the that) it was for Roads to Recovery out of RONIs, Labor Party voted against. We have prom- which we have done anyway. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26161

In other words, the Deputy Prime Minister strengthening, it was only after Labor had was actually saying that the $1.6 billion been pushing that for over a year. If Labor Roads to Recovery package had taken care has no policies, then what could you say of the need for any more infrastructure in- about the Howard government policies? vestment. Basically he was saying: This is a government, as we all know, that ... we have given some money for local roads, and is in a backflip mode, with a Prime Minister that’s it on the infrastructure front. who has made it clear that there is nothing he No more money, no more ideas—nothing would not do or say to get re-elected. That more, folks, but thanks for listening. That is includes ripping off Labor policy on a regu- how the National Party caved in once again lar basis. One of Labor’s policies that the and how the Deputy Prime Minister was government has not yet come around to is, as rolled in cabinet once again. Meanwhile, the I said before, to establish a national infra- people of Sydney, New South Wales and structure advisory council. Who knows: we nationally are still trying to understand what might see a backflip on this, the closer we this government has in store for them on get to an election. I raise these issues because transport policy. The people of Sydney are I think it is very important that we have a entitled to ask: where is this Howard gov- debate about infrastructure and the huge ernment’s transport plan? People in regional backlog that exists in Australia. In accor- Australia are also entitled to ask: what is dance with our commitment to a national being done about the regional infrastructure infrastructure advisory council I state clearly backlog? Unfortunately, I suggest to the that such a policy is about developing a House this afternoon that the answer to all transparent and accountable infrastructure these questions is: plenty of nothing! This is policy that maximises private and public despite the fact that it is universally recog- sector involvement in delivering large-scale nised that investment in our nation’s infra- projects. Transparency is important, not only structure is critical to developing our cities to the public at large but also to investors. and regions. That is why Labor have already This government has shown us how not to do announced that in government we will es- things—for example, on the infrastructure tablish a national infrastructure advisory front, the Speedrail tender process, the IT council to help us sort through the issues that outsourcing fiasco, continuing doubts about politicians seem to struggle with. The na- the Darwin-Alice Springs railway and the tional infrastructure advisory council has road funding debacle. That is why Labor’s been recommended by virtually every major policy will be put in place, aimed at trying to infrastructure review for the past six years, ensure that as a nation we place proper na- but the government has refused to move it tional infrastructure planning at the forefront. on. We know that funds for infrastructure The new infrastructure advisory council investment are scarce, but why would the that we suggest will reflect Labor’s partner- Deputy Prime Minister not fight for more ship approach to infrastructure policy and infrastructure investment? Perhaps he does will help the federal government sort through not have fight in him any more. the hard issues that have to be confronted. At the moment, the government’s only For the first time in many years, it will in- policy initiatives are those it pinches from clude the people directly affected by infra- Labor. When the government rolled over on structure policy in the development of those petrol prices, it was because Labor took the policies—that is, people from industry, fi- views of ordinary Australians to Canberra. nance, engineering, planning and academia, When the government rolled over on the regional Australia and local government. All business activity statement, it was because tiers of government, in association with the Labor took the views of ordinary Australians private sector, will pull together to overcome to Canberra. When the National Party came our infrastructure backlog. Its role will be, out and proclaimed that the public interest for example, to advise the Commonwealth test of national competition policy needed government on strategic planning needs, data 26162 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 deficiencies, strategies to coordinate within towel and walked away with his tail between and between governments, and on how we his legs and basically said, ‘Well, the Treas- move forward on public-private partnerships. urer has prevailed, the National Party has Nothing is easy, but at least we have a pro- lost, regional Australia has lost, and infra- posal to try to come to terms with those huge structure planning and development have lost challenges on the infrastructure front. yet again.’ The problem is that that is hap- I suggest to the House, and to all those pening time and time again to the Deputy people in both metropolitan and regional Prime Minister and Minister for Transport Australia who are crying out for infrastruc- and Regional Services. The proof of the ture planning and implementation, that we as pudding is in the eating. From hearing deci- a nation need to improve the way in which sion after decision, the Australian commu- we plan for and deliver our infrastructure. So nity has come to the conclusion that the far, we all know that after five years the Deputy Prime Minister and so-called Leader Howard government has failed on this chal- of the National Party cannot convince his lenging front; therefore, the pressure is cabinet colleagues of the extent of the infra- mounting on the Prime Minister and the structure needs in the community. I suppose Deputy Prime Minister to offer a real infra- we should not be surprised. For instance, structure plan instead of pork-barrelling and take the Treasurer—he hardly ever gets out piecemeal decision making. of his own electorate or out of Canberra; and take the Prime Minister—every now and On the issue of the sale of Kingsford then he makes a whistle-stop tour of regional Smith airport, Labor has said that it supports Australia. They have no conviction or com- the sale but that the proceeds should not only mitment to infrastructure development and go to debt reduction but also be considered no conviction or commitment to the needs in the context of worthwhile capital expen- and aspirations of people in regional Austra- diture. The proceeds from the sale of the air- lia. The time has come for the Howard gov- port should not go to recurrent expenditure ernment to front up to the challenging debate but used creatively for worthwhile capital about infrastructure. The problem for infra- expenditure both within Sydney and beyond structure at the moment is that we have a Sydney and both within New South Wales tired government, a useless minister and in- and beyond New South Wales. For too long frastructure backlog getting larger. (Time our investments and our challenge on the expired) infrastructure front have been driven by short-term politics rather any long-term Dalai Lama plan—and you wonder sometimes whether Mr SLIPPER (Fisher—Parliamentary that is by design or by just sheer incompe- Secretary to the Minister for Finance and tence. Administration) (4.49 p.m.)—Every so often The Australian community and industry in this place one gets the opportunity to rise need a government that understands the in- to one’s feet and to talk in a non-political frastructure challenge. In particular, they way about matters about which one feels need a minister who is competent to effec- very strongly. I am not a Buddhist, and I sus- tively articulate the needs at the cabinet table pect that I probably never will become a and, more importantly, to deliver when the Buddhist; but, unashamedly, I am a very chips are down. We know that the Deputy great admirer of His Holiness the Dalai Prime Minister and Minister for Transport Lama. Recently, I had the opportunity, on a and Regional Services took this debate—one private visit to northern India, to have a pri- that has been widely reported in the Austra- vate audience with His Holiness for some 20 lian Financial Review—to cabinet but, un- to 30 minutes. I must say that the visit to fortunately, yet again, obviously lost that Dharamsala was, in a number of respects, debate. When confronted yet again by the quite challenging. There was a 12-hour train challenge of the Treasurer, he threw in the trip, followed by the buses taking some five or six hours, after a bus breakdown in Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26163

Dharamsala, before I arrived in McLeod think of Nelson Mandela; I think of His Ho- Ganj. I am particularly impressed with the liness Pope John Paul. There are very few way His Holiness—who is the 14th Dalai others who seem to have a capacity not to be Lama and who was born in 1935—has been bitter in any way, to be sincere and to be pre- able to combine his role as a spiritual leader pared to look forward. No matter how ap- of the Tibetan people, along with his efforts palling the treatment dealt to the Tibetan to preserve Tibetan culture and his efforts in people since the Chinese invasion in 1950, the political arena on behalf of Tibetans— the Dalai Lama always looks forward. He is both those living in Tibet and those living always trying to win a better deal for Tibetan outside Tibet. people while at the same time appreciating The current Dalai Lama was recognised as the important role of Tibetan teaching and a reincarnation of his predecessor shortly Buddhist theology. after the 13th Dalai Lama passed away. He It is a fact of life that, since Australia’s was the fourth son of a poor peasant family recognition of the People’s Republic of in Takster village in Amdo province in east- China in 1972, part of that recognition in- ern Tibet. I was privileged also to meet the volved an appreciation or acceptance that sister of His Holiness, Jetsun Pema, who was Tibet is part of China. But it is clear that the educated in Western society but who, since government remains concerned in a con- the 1960s, has returned to northern India tinuing way over restrictions on religious where she carries out her work on behalf of freedom, cultural identity and freedom of Tibetan children, including those who are expression in Tibet. All of us are concerned refugees today from Tibet. She runs schools over the disappearance of the Panchen Lama. and a most impressive kindergarten which There are concerns for his safety. I would operates on the Montessori principle. She hope that the Chinese allow the Panchen told me that the Dalai institution was perhaps Lama—that is, the real Panchen Lama, and one of the most democratic institutions in the not the one created by the Chinese authori- world insofar as anyone could be discovered ties— to return to his monastery so that he is to be a reincarnation of a previous Dalai able to perform his role as an important Lama. teacher. At the time I was in Dharamsala and There are some 130,000 Tibetan refugees McLeod Ganj, there were thousands of pil- living throughout the world, many of them in grims from around the world who had gone India. The Indian government has been ex- to listen to the words of the Dalai Lama in traordinarily hospitable. Dharamsala serves his teachings. The Dalai Lama not only car- as a capital in exile for those refugees. It is ries out his political role, but also spends ironic that perhaps the 14th Dalai Lama, the some six to eight hours per day talking to current Dalai Lama, enjoys less political thousands of people from around the world. power than any of his predecessors, who did When one looks at those people, gathered in not come to the West, but he is undoubtedly the very simple temple at Dharamsala, the the most influential person to ever hold that crowd is multicultural to say the least. There high office. His worldwide travels, his elo- are living in Dharamsala some 3,000 to quent meeting with other religious leaders, 4,000 Buddhist monks and nuns, a number of his speaking in favour of the principles of whom come from Western communities. ecumenical understanding, kindness, com- Many people from around the world go at passion, the environment and world peace this time of the year to listen to His Holiness’ mean that the Dalai Lama is someone who teachings. I listened to his teachings in Ti- will continue to be respected by people from betan. I did not understand a word, but throughout the world regardless of the politi- somehow, through his aura, the Dalai Lama cal views that they espouse. was able to pass on a very powerful message. I was privileged to meet His Holiness Very few people in society have the presence when His Holiness was last in Australia. I that His Holiness the Dalai Lama does. I 26164 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 am very pleased that the Dalai Lama will responsible for maintaining the political aspi- return to this country in May next year. The rations of Tibetans and at the same time, Tibetan faith has the Chenrezig Institute through the Norbulingka Institute and in based in my electorate of Fisher on the Sun- other ways, His Holiness has been ensuring shine Coast hinterland. It is a centre for Bud- that the culture of Tibet is preserved. He is a dhist study, meditation and retreat. It is a man among men and is someone all of us can flourishing community of nuns, monks and greatly respect. He is someone who looks to lay people. Chenrezig is the name of the world peace and who looks forward, not Buddha of compassion, who embodies the backwards. He is someone whom we can compassionate wisdom of all the Buddhas. universally admire and who can be a focus of The goal of the Chenrezig Institute—and I unity in the parliament. People throughout have visited it and listened to teachings the world ought to respect the Dalai Lama, there—is to benefit as many people as possi- who has been prepared to put aside what has ble, helping them to transform their lives so happened to his people and look forward and that they can benefit others and realise ulti- move forward. (Time expired) mate happiness. Their vision is to support the Australian Taxation Office: Petroulias, Mr spiritual development of all people in an en- Nick vironment of universal responsibility, wis- dom and compassion. They also seek to be a Mr KELVIN THOMSON (Wills) (4.59 centre for learning, retreat, community and p.m.)—On 24 March last year, five car loads service, following the Mahayana Buddhist of Australian Federal Police raided the home tradition. The Chenrezig Institute also runs a of former Australian Taxation Office First hospice for the dying in the Sunshine Coast Assistant Commissioner, Mr Nick Petroulias, hinterland; people do not have to be part of who had been head of the Taxation Office’s the Buddhist faith to be able to access the Strategic Intelligence Analysis Unit. Nearly facilities provided by this very important 60 federal agents acted on search warrants to organisation. conduct raids and seize documents from 78 individuals and companies throughout Aus- A number of years ago when there was a tralia. There is no doubt that the Australian debate in relation to the Chinese treatment of Federal Police and the Taxation Office have Tibet, I spoke in the parliament. I do not re- devoted huge resources to the Petroulias sile from what I said at that time. It is im- case; millions of dollars must have been portant to recognise that the Dalai Lama is spent. currently visiting Taiwan. He, of course, is a Nobel Peace Prize winner. A recent newspa- At first, Mr Petroulias was charged with per article stated: conspiring to defraud the Commonwealth with tax schemes that caused up to ‘I am not seeking independence, but I think Bei- $900 million to be lost in revenue. But the jing’s present policy in Tibet is counterproduc- conspiracy charge, which carried a possible tive,’ he said, repeating his call for a locally elected government and a high degree of Tibetan 20-year jail sentence, was dropped two autonomy. months later. Hints by the AFP and prose- cuting barrister, Peter Hastings, way back in ‘Under a certain degree of freedom, a local [Ti- betan] government should eventually be elected June last year that the charge would be rein- by the local people.’ stated have not been acted on. Hints at that same time that more people were expected to The Dalai Lama is someone whom we can face charges over the Petroulias affair have all respect greatly. He is a person who has also not been acted upon. To point out the seen the most appalling treatment handed out obvious, just over a week ago we passed the to Tibetan people since that country’s inva- 12-month anniversary since this happened, sion by the People’s Republic of China. He and there is still absolutely no sign of this is someone who has had the responsibility of matter going to trial. I have been told that no leading his people in spirituality and in Bud- date has been set for this matter to go to trial. dhist teaching. He is someone who has been Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26165

I have been told that no date has been set for part of those charged with administering this a committal proceeding. I have been told that nation’s tax system. neither Mr Petroulias nor his defence lawyer The Joint Committee of Public Accounts have been even sent a brief of the evidence and Audit has had its attempts to inquire into against him. In other words, over 12 months issues of private rulings rebuffed on the have passed and this matter is no closer to grounds of sub judice due to the Petroulias being resolved than when Mr Petroulias was case. The House of Representatives Standing arrested. As a result, Mr Petroulias is effec- Committee on Employment, Education and tively being punished in terms of his liveli- Workplace Relations inquiring into employee hood—that is, his capacity to earn a living— share ownership had questions about con- and his reputation, without coming to trial or trolling interest super and employee benefit yet being found guilty of anything. tax avoidance schemes rebuffed on the I do not know anything like enough about grounds of sub judice due to the Petroulias this case to have a view about whether case. The work of the Senate legislation Mr Petroulias is innocent or guilty of the committee inquiring into the bill which out- charges which have been laid, and even if I laws deductions for contributions to offshore did it would be quite improper for me to ex- superannuation schemes has had its work press a view one way or the other. But I do frustrated on the grounds of sub judice due to know this: in this country it is for the courts the Petroulias case. to impose punishment and penalise people, Senate estimates committees have also not the Commonwealth, the DPP or the tax been frustrated by the application of the sub office through failure to proceed. judice convention. Acting on advice from the I notice the Minister for Foreign Affairs Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions has been talking to the Laotian authorities about possible sub judice considerations, Tax about the arrest and detention of Kerry and Commissioner Carmody declined to answer Kay Danes concerning missing gems. In questions as basic as whether Mr Petroulias Australia, we are all tut-tutting about the had a security clearance and whether he was Laotian criminal justice system, but even really a first assistant commissioner or though Mr Petroulias has not been detained merely an assistant commissioner. We had by the authorities—as Mr and Mrs Danes the Clerk of the Senate propose that ques- are—his life has still been put on hold by tions to the Commissioner of Taxation be put these charges. Before we get too high and in writing for vetting by the DPP. My col- mighty about the Laotian system, we ought league Senator Conroy was moved to de- to have a look in our own backyard. Justice scribe this suggestion as ‘a completely un- delayed is justice denied. satisfactory subversion of the parliamentary Not only is this delay prejudicial to process’. Mr Petroulias but also it is damaging to pub- There is no doubt that the sub judice net lic confidence in the tax system. There is has been thrown very wide indeed. As a re- growing concern that the length of time this sult, there is no doubt that the delay in case is taking is damaging public account- bringing this case on is very convenient for ability of both the tax office and the govern- the tax office and very convenient for the ment. Virtually every question asked by me, government. For example, in July last year by Labor senators or by others concerning Channel 9’s Sunday program wanted to in- important issues surrounding the tax office’s terview the tax commissioner. In the tax of- handling of private binding rulings and off- fice’s own words: shore superannuation and controlling interest The program wanted to raise with the Commis- superannuation tax avoidance schemes have sioner the system of private binding rulings. This been met with the reply that these matters are was likely to cover matters that are currently be- sub judice. Delays in the Petroulias case are fore the Courts. The Commissioner has advice interfering with proper accountability on the from the Director of Public Prosecutions that, in accordance with long-standing principles, he 26166 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 should not publicly discuss issues that are cur- Taxation Office Strategic Intelligence Net- rently before the Court. work and answer directly to him. The docu- So the commissioner did not appear. The ment, signed in September 1998, begins: commissioner cannot avoid Senate commit- I have asked Nick Petroulias, currently Assistant tees, but on the Friday before appearing be- Commissioner, Strategic Intelligence Analysis in fore the Senate estimates committee on Large Business and International ... to take on a Monday, 29 May last year he contacted the new role so as to support the development of a DPP and appeared before the Senate com- strategic intelligence network throughout the Tax mittee armed with the following statement: Office. I have spoken to the DPP about this matter and he The new position is that of First Assistant has indicated that he would prefer that there be no Commissioner, Strategic Intelligence Network discussion about this matter whilst it is still and in that capacity Nick will report directly to pending before the Courts. While on the face of it me. some of the questions may appear to invite in- The tax office admitted the document was nocuous answers, the scope of the proceedings authentic. So if the Treasurer was told the tax and any likely defence to them at this stage could commissioner was not involved with Mr not be said to be so clearly defined that I would Petroulias’s promotion then somebody was feel comfortable in attempting to answer any of pulling the Treasurer’s leg. Who could that the questions. I have raised my concerns with the somebody have been? And the somebody DPP in the light of his earlier comments and he agrees with my concerns. who fed the story to Michelle Grattan and Toni O’Loughlin were pulling the Sydney With the sub judice net cast as wide as this Morning Herald’s leg. Who might that one has been, the Australian public is in the somebody have been? It must have been unhappy situation of knowing that the tax somebody pretty senior in the government office and the government are shielded from for them to report that one. You wonder who answering a whole host of potentially embar- it would have been. rassing questions until this matter comes to trial. At the present rate of progress, this may There are many more questions which not be until after the next federal election. should step out from the sub judice shadow. What sorts of questions am I talking about? Why did the tax office give about 50 favour- First, there is the question of what role able rulings and opinions on employee bene- Commissioner Carmody had in the appoint- fit trusts and up to 200 unfavourable ones? ment of Mr Petroulias. On 7 April last year, How were such conflicting advices issued? the Sydney Morning Herald published a re- Did the tax office reject advice as early as port by Michelle Grattan and Toni March 1998 that it apply FBT to employee O’Loughlin headed ‘Tax chief “had no hands benefit trusts from the May 1998 budget on- on role” with Petroulias’. It reported: wards and, if so, why? The high profile and dramatic arrest of Mr Petroulias was im- The Treasurer, Mr Costello, has been told that the mensely damaging to public confidence in Tax Commissioner, Mr Michael Carmody, did not have a hands-on role in the appointment and pro- the tax office. At the time they said they had motion of former senior tax official Nick Petrou- been conducting a joint investigation for 12 lias. Sources say the Government has been as- months. Since then, another 12 months has sured Mr Carmody did not recruit Petroulias, and passed and there is no sign that this matter is did not meet him for some time after he was any closer to resolution. This is a very un- hired. Nor was he the one who promoted him. satisfactory and inappropriate state of affairs. To its credit, the Sydney Morning Herald did Clinical Waste Management not just leave it at that. On 5 May of last Dr STONE (Murray—Parliamentary Sec- year, Marian Wilkinson, National Affairs retary to the Minister for the Environment Editor of the Sydney Morning Herald, re- and Heritage) (5.09 p.m.)—Based in Cohuna, ported that a document signed by the Com- one of the towns of my electorate of Murray, missioner of Taxation indicated that he per- there is a remarkable business that is setting sonally had asked Mr Petroulias to set up the standards of excellence in its waste man- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26167 agement work. This business, led by Mr the health care industry, circulated by the David Elliot, is called Ellwaste. Last year National Health and Medical Research David Elliot brought to my attention a seri- Council in 1999. Unfortunately, these guide- ous problem confronting the sector of his lines have no regulatory teeth. They depend industry which deals with clinical wastes. on voluntary adoption by the industry, states Since then I have worked with the Australian and territories—which, as I have said, as and New Zealand Clinical Waste Manage- recently as last week failed to be greatly ment Industry Group—in particular the net- moved by any sense of urgency. According work manager, Pam Keating—in an effort to to the NHMRC, clinical and related waste help them achieve a regulated, nationally includes any material which has the potential consistent response to clinical waste man- to be hazardous, causing sharps injury, in- agement. fection, disease or public offence. Their Sadly, as recently as 23 March at the Na- categories include sharps, human tissue or tional Environment Protection Council plan- animal waste resulting from medical or vet- ning day, representatives of the states and erinary research or treatments that have the territories again rejected an immediate re- potential to cause disease. sponse to the Commonwealth’s call for ac- The human tissue category of clinical tion to achieve nationally consistent, regu- waste includes visually recognisable body lated best practice in clinical waste manage- tissues, such as limbs, placentas, biopsy ment. Without a consistent and regulated specimens and non-viable foetuses, or foe- approach labelling, storage, transport and tuses knowingly obtained through medical disposal, occupational health and safety, procedures, regardless of appearance. It in- education and waste minimisation continues cludes material or solutions containing free- to be at risk—a risk of seriously affronting flowing blood or expressible blood. Dis- the public’s sense of decency, the protection carded sharps include hypodermic needles, of public health and pollution or contamina- scalpel blades and intravenous sets. These tion of the environment. may be contaminated with blood, body fluid, So what is the problem? Every day clini- toxic, cytotoxic or radioactive substances. cal and related waste is generated in hospi- Animal tissue or carcasses used in re- tals, veterinary surgeries, research laborato- search includes animals used in experiments ries, dental clinics, dialysis units, drug treat- related to infection or where animals have ment centres, ambulance services, maternity been treated with chemicals that are known clinics, community health services, nursing to be environmentally unsafe. Cytotoxic homes, blood banks, pharmacies, mortuaries, waste is material that may be contaminated laundries, brothels, tattooists, body piercing with a cytotoxic drug, used during chemo- establishments and private homes—wherever therapy usually for cancer treatments. These patients need ongoing medication, injections toxic compounds have carcinogenic, muta- and dressings. The bulk of this waste is genic and teratogenic potential—that is, they harmless, and some of it is not. While the can cause cancer, foetal and neonatal abnor- waste generated is much the same every- malities. Direct contact with cytotoxics may where, each state and territory has a different also cause irritation to the skin, eyes, mucous definition of what constitutes a hazard or membranes and ulceration and necrosis of what can be included in general untreated tissue. waste. The waste definition confusion re- Pharmaceutical waste excludes the cyto- flects the inconsistent and sometimes unsafe toxins but includes pharmaceuticals that are approach to what are most important ethical, over their shelf life or discarded by patients, health and environmental related issues. batches in contaminated packages or waste To advance this debate I will use the defi- generated during pharmaceutic manufactur- nition of clinical waste referred to in the Na- ing. Chemical waste can include, but is not tional guidelines for waste management in limited to, mercury, cyanide and formalin, all 26168 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 of which require special disposal. These receiving state or territory. Since we are now chemicals can corrode sewage pipes and also disposing of East Timor medical waste even cause explosions if flushed into sewer- in the Northern Territory, especially that age systems. Radioactive waste is generated generated by United Nations facilities, we by nuclear medicine, radioimmuno assay and also need quarantine understandings. There bacteriological procedures, and it can be a is no nationally agreed set of colours or solid, liquid or gaseous. General waste is the symbols to identify the waste in storage in bulk of all health industry waste produced. It containers or transport. This makes it ex- includes sanitary and incontinence pads, in- traordinarily difficult for the industry. There travenous drip and other equipment which is no consistency as to the acceptable con- may be contaminated with other hazardous tainer and handling practices. For example, substances. And there is the problem that a while one state has been advocating the dis- single container of waste can be a jumble of posal of untreated clinical waste to landfill, sharps, bloodied bandages, infectious mate- there are no requirements for mechanical rial and human tissue. aids on the vehicles to empty the containers So clearly we have a problem. The differ- safely to protect the workers. ent states and territories have different pri- Many health care organisations have fa- orities and different capacities in dealing cilities located in different states and territo- with the definition, storage, collection, la- ries. This means they must duplicate their belling, transportation, tracking and moni- management systems, policies and proce- toring of the disposal of this clinical waste. dures, purchasing requirements and educa- The technologies they approve differ, as well tion programs. It also means that waste as the air emissions standards for incinera- product is more likely to be transported for tors and landfill standards. For example, dumping in the states with the poorest air Queensland, Western Australia, Northern emissions standards or the cheapest landfill Territory, Tasmania and remote parts of re- disposal options. This obviously increases gional New South Wales allow landfill dis- environmental risks. It is not fair to those posal of untreated clinical wastes such as who live in remote and rural communities. bloodied bandages. Other jurisdictions do Similar problems also exist with the Austra- not. While high temperature incineration is lian Dangerous Goods Code. Such problems approved in all jurisdictions, autoclaves are could be ameliorated through a national ap- only approved in Queensland and New South proach to clinical waste management. Wales. Microwaving is only approved in The NHMRC guidelines recommend that New South Wales. Grinding and shredding ‘the states and territories should negotiate with sodium hypochlorite is approved in detailed and consistent definitions of the Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland, terms to be used in the documentation of but in Queensland they also approve of their waste management requirements’ and grinding and shredding with hydrogen per- that ‘there is a need for a national, uniform oxide and lime. And so it goes on. strategy for clinical and related wastes man- Clearly there is some incentive for waste agement’. We have a vehicle for overcoming disposal businesses to shop around for the the current problems. This is the national state with the least costly requirements for environment protection measures and they clinical waste disposal. As well, some states can deal with the clinical waste issue be- and territories do not have the required infra- tween jurisdictions and territories across the structure, so transportation of the clinical nation. A NEPM could produce benefits to waste across borders is essential. Given the all governments by reducing uncertainty inconsistency of definitions, labelling, stor- about what clinical waste is and how it age and disposal, this transportation presents should be regulated. It would reduce divided a major challenge to the industry. It is diffi- opinions between government agencies cult for a contractor to know exactly what within states and territories and give industry part of the load needs to be treated in the the same requirements for each jurisdiction, Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26169 creating real opportunity for communities to families who are isolated and disadvantaged by enjoy improved and equivalent standards of divorce (this is my personal experience). protection from infection and pollution. In I am sure you are more than aware of the es- particular, it could better assure the sensitive calating social problems caused by the trauma of disposal of all human tissue. separation and poverty so I won’t go into any details but whilst reading this please balance I strongly congratulate the industry—it those against the benefits my children receive and has done an enormous amount of work—that you will understand why I am so passionate. deals with clinical waste disposal. It is most Most importantly for me my boys are getting conscientious and most anxious to see a bet- positive adult male role modelling, something it is ter system in Australia prevail. I call upon impossible for me to give, and positive female the states and territories to think much harder reinforcement from the leaders of their sections. about the need for a national environmental As my children have no Grandparents, Uncles, protection measure to deal with clinical Aunts or cousins who they can access, I cannot waste, and I certainly will continue my ef- stress enough the importance this “extended fam- forts, as Parliamentary Secretary to the Min- ily” provides for all of us. ister for the Environment and Heritage, to Their self esteem benefits because they are make sure that we very soon do address this constantly striving towards their best and are most particular problem. positively reinforced for their achievements no matter how small. Their spiritual health is rein- Scouting Movement: Benefits forced not because they are preached to, but be- Mr QUICK (Franklin) (5.19 p.m.)—I was cause they see by example and experience its reminded last week of the fantastic work reality through their activities. They have a strong being achieved by the scouting movement in sense of community spirit and pride and regularly Australia and the impact it has on so many give of themselves and their time to its improve- Australian families. I received the following ment, making them some of our nation’s greatest letter which I wish to share with honourable assets. They are gifted with a very powerful per- sonal mission statement to be trustworthy, loyal, members and the public: helpful, friendly, cheerful, considerate, thrifty, Dear Mr Quick courageous, respectful and caring of their envi- I am writing to you to thank you for the inter- ronment. est and support you show my children and the For myself personally, the assistance I receive youth in our community. Particularly by way of from Scouts to reinforce these attributes in my the active interest you take in scouting and the children is a life line in these times where our inspiration you implant in them on a personal youth are especially challenged to become hon- level when you attend their meetings. Subse- ourable, responsible citizens where hardship, quently I hope you don’t mind that I feel com- violence, the destruction of our planet and the pelled to share my own personal story and feel- ever present threat of economic depression loom ings on Scouting and the importance it plays in ominously in and out of their lives, and the our lives. temptation of mind altering substances to avoid it Like a lot of 60s and 70s children I have had 2 all are almost thrust down their throats. Is it any marriages that have resulted in divorce. Involved wonder that I am so grateful to watch my sons in this process are 3 sons to whom I’ve given being healthy kids, doing healthy kid things or birth and another 5 children—a half sister, half that I derive such tremendous pleasure to hear brother and three step brothers. The age range is their rowdy laughter, see their grubby hands and currently 29 to 13. My first introduction person- faces and especially their bright shining eyes en ally to Scouting came in 1985 when my youngest mass every time I collect my boys at the end of a son’s eldest half brother lived with us and at- meeting. tended cubs. Another of the things I am grateful for, is the Currently I live as a sole parent with my 15 diversity of experience which it is so impossible and 13 year old sons, and this is where Scouting for me to provide personally. They go orienteer- plays such a valuable role in our overall health ing, camping, can tie knots, swimming, sailing, and wellbeing. The sound principles around fishing, visit the snow, go ice skating, bush which this movement is based are assets for any walking, bike riding, rowing, kayaking, canoeing, individual but become even more useful for travelling, they plant trees and take care of their 26170 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 environment. They have campfires and sing I know from my own experience that it has not songs, they can cook and sew, know their basic been easy to finance my children into scouts, and 1st Aid and can speak publicly (even though it is where every spare cent we have goes, at shyly). They get to visit interesting places and as times even missing out on other things so we can you are well aware they get to meet a variety of afford the fees, uniforms and the cost of activities. interesting people. They have lots and lots of fun This remains money well invested and my chil- and happy memories and the quality of their daily dren’s wellbeing is invaluable. It would be en- lives and those of the people they touch is im- couraging for sole parents to receive some sort of proved, and like you they make a difference in assistance in much the same way as they do for people’s lives. It does matter that our children phones or power, and potentially allow these have the opportunity to be well and I believe we same gifts to even more children from single par- are very fortunate to have Scouts as an option. ent families with our Nation being the real winner Any organisation that helps children is worthy in ... this win, win situation. and deserves support. I believe Scouts is espe- There are of course no guaranteed solutions to cially valuable because it provides for and nur- the ever increasing drug problem. If there were tures the whole child. This is more important now they would already be being implemented. How- than it ever has been before in our history. My ever I believe that this could make a substantial vested interest in this matter is that I have two difference to the lives of many, not just the chil- children at Scouts but as I watch our fine volun- dren but the adults who deserve as much assis- teer leaders and committee members (all Austra- tance as we can possibly give them in their diffi- lians of the Year) I cannot help but think they cult job of helping and supporting their children. need all the help and support they can get. As a These are only vague suggestions, but I’m sure sole parent my resources and energy are unlim- that you and your colleagues could make them ited, but upon their behalf I would urge that if you into something valuable. or your colleagues are ever in a position to help, Thank you again for your time and the differ- that you do so. ence that you make. Visit their meetings and become inspired by Yours sincerely, the vigour and vitality that will surround you. Share in the joy of their fresh young faces as they Catherine beam in delight, and remember that these are Environment: Sustainable Use of tomorrow’s care takers and policy makers. The Resources hours and hours of voluntary labour and skill that Mr BILLSON (Dunkley) (5.27 p.m.)—I the adult leaders provide make this a multimillion dollar organisation and I would imagine any ac- rise tonight to talk about sustainability— knowledgment of what these people consistently sustainabilty of our nation, our economic give of themselves would be appreciated. I would capacity and our people—and to suggest to be surprised to discover that any of your col- the House that the big challenge for the leagues had not had their lives touched in some coming century will be to have a century of way by Scouting being such an established or- sustainability when we learn to tread a little ganisation that has run over such a long period of more lightly on our earth and to be not just time. Many possibly were cubs or scouts them- well resourced but more resourceful to make selves. They especially might be interested in sure that the standard of living we enjoy in giving something back to today’s youth via this this country can continue and be passed on to organisation as they consider what assets and skills were developed through their own experi- our kids. The word ‘sustainability’ is thrown ences or any of the memories that were made. I around a great deal. At times the concepts would even go so far as to suggest that you con- are widely articulated but, when you are sider the possibility of subsidising these children looking for tangible examples of how to pur- in your fight against drugs. My boys are too busy sue sustainability, they are not quite as read- living productive lives to have time to consider ily talked about and as readily accessible as drugs, and their self esteem is good enough and some of the rhetoric would suggest. Madam scouting has given them the ability and the skills Deputy Speaker Kelly, I listened with inter- to be able to say NO. Considering the impact est to your contribution earlier in the day substance abuse costs our society this could well about the role that ethanol and other biofuels contribute towards a solution. could play. I commend you for that as an Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26171 example of things that we as a nation should Natural Heritage Trust, in some of the green- be thinking about and moving towards now house programs—a number of which have so that we do become a more resourceful, been mentioned—in the land and water audit more sustainable country. and in the salinity initiative, just to name a I have talked before in this place about the few. It can also be seen out in the marine link between our quality of life and environment, where we have an enormous sustainability. I have said and would like to responsibility and an enormous opportunity. repeat today that you look at vital communi- These things demonstrate that the Howard ties, whether they be in rural and regional government understands that the health of Australia or outer metropolitan areas, and our natural systems has so much to do with you see they are vital for a number of rea- our capacity into the future and with securing sons. They are important because they are better opportunities for our nation and its people’s homes—that is where they live and citizens. that is where they are pursuing their aspira- In that light, I was fortunate to be briefed tions—but they are also vital in the sense by the Australian Conservation Foundation a that they need to be animated, energetic, op- few weeks ago about their document Natural timistic and forward looking, and so much of advantage: a blueprint for a sustainable that depends on whether they are on a sus- Australia. I would like to commend the ACF tainable footing or not. So often we hear for its work. I know that I and a number of people in the communities we travel to as others are often on the receiving end of the part of the work of the House of Representa- insights that the ACF wishes to share with tives Standing Committee on Environment the public. What I really like about this and Heritage talking to us about how their document is that it is the start of a new dawn natural systems are degraded or saying there for the conservation movement in Australia. is some concern about the longer-term vital- I think people are growing a little weary of ity of their communities. the talk of Armageddon scenarios—that the It is interesting. I think to myself: what is world is going to come to an end; that if this, the point or the purpose of a community if its this and this do not happen then something lifeblood, its natural systems, are degraded to horrendous is going to occur—and I think a the point where the community cannot sup- lot of young people are getting quite dis- port itself, cannot sustain its existence or heartened by that sort of talk. However, the cannot generate the wealth and the resources excellent body of work that Michael Krock- not only to properly care for its citizens but enberger, through an international sabbatical, to pursue future opportunities and to fulfil has put together brings to the table construc- the potential of its people? So I see a very tive and practical suggestions about how to direct link between the sustainability of those enhance our sustainability in this country. communities and their longer-term future, That is really the sort of valuable insight and and I feel that the health of our natural sys- input that the conservation movement, not tems is a central part of that. only here but also around the world, needs to look to into the future. It is one thing to I very much welcome the observation of identify deficiencies and problems; it is a far the Democrats’ environment spokesman, Lyn more character building exercise and a Allison, who shared a platform with me at greater challenge to be helpful in identifying the University of Melbourne some weeks what we can actually do about it. The ACF ago, where she quite rightly, in my view, and Michael Krockenberger have done that described the current Howard government as by looking at what I would call ‘better prac- the government that has done more for our tice models’ that exist around the globe and environment and our natural systems man- by talking about how they may be applicable agement than any other government in this to our country. country. I think that is about right. The effort of the Howard government can be seen in the I commend the document to people who are interested in the journey that I am on— 26172 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 that is, trying to find practical and sensible zone—that enormous marine body around ways that provide genuine economic oppor- Australia for which our country has respon- tunity and employment prospects and that sibility and duty of care. About two-thirds of underwrite our potential and our future stan- the marine species in the cooler, temperate dard of living by ensuring that our natural waters south of Australia occur nowhere else systems are properly cared for and that we on the planet. In this age of biodiversity, become a more resourceful country. I com- surely we should be looking to understand mend this publication to anybody who shares and tap that capacity. We have land and wa- my interest in that area, because it is an im- ter restoration challenges: salt is obviously a portant body of work. It is about getting the big issue, as are environmental flows and framework and the legislative regime right, issues of biodiversity conservation. I com- about knowing what it is that we are trying to mend this publication to people who are in- do, about measuring progress, about recog- terested in that area of work, that body of nising that others are doing some good work intellectual endeavour, where we are trying and it is about working with the market, to find practical, realistic, implementable taking out of the economy subsidies that en- solutions to natural systems challenges that courage activities which have a damaging ensure that our standard of living is also con- impact on our natural systems—an impact sidered and worked towards. that is not rectified as part of the production A practical example of that work is in my process—and looking at ‘green’ businesses own electorate. The Mornington Peninsula and those sorts of things. Shire, to their great credit, a few weeks ago It is also about communicating the mes- conducted a public forum on ‘A sustainable sage to the broader public. My travels have peninsula—making it real’. On 24 March, taken me up into your electorate, Madam 380 people came of their own free will, be- Deputy Speaker Kelly, and into the elector- cause of their interest in and engagement ates of others, where I talked with cane with this subject, to look at how to imple- farmers and the like. They have an enor- ment sustainability concepts on the Morn- mously significant contribution to make to ington Peninsula. For those who do not know our country as well as an enormously im- it, the Mornington Peninsula is God’s coun- portant role in and custodianship of the land try. Only people who have been there would that they manage. Frankly, we need to be know how precious it is and that every other there supporting them with that. If you are a option of where to live in Australia is, cane farmer who has a property that has been frankly, a bit suboptimal. The Mornington in your family for two generations and if you Peninsula is a very precious part of Victoria happen to adjoin a world heritage area, my because it is basically where we hold back sense is that you have a disproportionate re- the metropolitan urban sprawl—and, frankly, sponsibility in helping to protect our envi- the Labor Party vote as well. So it has those ronment and that the broader community has two very important concepts. Some of the a role in helping you to pursue the values things most valued about that area are its that are important to all of us. The question biodiversity, its landscape values, the fact then is: is it a taxation measure or is it a cost that the environment matters to its commu- recovery measure? I keep saying that, at the nity, that it produces fine wines and foods end of the day, it is tax or till. Australian citi- and that it comprises 10 per cent of Victo- zens end up paying one way or the other, and ria’s coastline—an enormous responsibility we need to inform and work with the broader for the council and the local community. community and with the ACF and other or- They are having a red-hot go at embracing ganisations to look at practical solutions to sustainability principles in a practical way those challenges. and feeding them through the Mornington On biodiversity matters, I have spoken in Peninsula Shire Council’s strategic planning, this parliament before about the responsibil- policy framework and programs. Measures ity we have for the exclusive economic of performance are part of it, as is an exami- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26173 nation of current policy to see where the During summer she could not run her air- gaps may be. It also involves some new pol- conditioning unit at all. As many may real- icy development work and something that I ise, Melbourne suffered a very hot summer. am particularly interested in: looking to see She cannot afford to run her central heating whether a UNESCO urban biosphere might and is considering disconnecting the phone, be one way of recognising that biodiversity even though her children are telling her not matters and that humans are actually part of to do this because she suffers from many that biodiversity. I commend the Mornington health problems and they are very concerned Peninsula Shire for that work. (Time expired) about her wellbeing. Mrs Sturgeon struggled Chisholm Electorate: Goods and Services to pay for her unit and thus has no savings Tax left. She got no benefit from the savings bo- nus and she thinks this is ridiculous. Wasn’t Ms BURKE (Chisholm) (5.37 p.m.)—I it meant to assist people such as her who are recently wrote to people in my electorate of trying to cope? The clawback of her pension Chisholm about the consistent abuse by this is the final straw. Under the GST, prices government of those who I think deserve have just gone up and up. She used to buy a better from government. I wrote: litre of long-life milk. Originally it was It’s just not right. Pensioners and self-funded re- priced at 90c. After the GST was introduced, tirees are not getting their fair share. it went up to 99c. Now it is $1.37 a litre. So After having worked hard and pay taxes all their she stopped buying long-life milk and is now lives, older people do not deserve the treatment looking at powdered milk, but on her sums they have received under the GST. People in the she thinks that even that is going to be too Chadstone-Burwood area have been telling me expensive. She simply cannot afford to do that the GST hits retirees and pensioners espe- cially hard. Petrol, food, electricity, gas and anything. phone are all costing them more. Most retired Another couple at Chadstone phoned to people do not receive any benefits from the tax say that they were self-funded retirees. cuts and compensation for the GST has been Whilst they got the $1,000, it just did not go measly. In fact, John Howard’s compensation has anywhere near assisting them enough. They more fine print than most insurance policies. believe that prices have gone up more sub- The Howard government promised a 4% increase stantially than 10 per cent. They also say that in the pension. Half that 4% increase has been the hidden costs in health have gone through clawed back. The Federal government has sub- the roof. Whilst they have struggled to keep tracted 2% from the automatic indexation that is up their private health insurance, they find it now due. just does not cover things, particularly things Remember the government’s promise that ‘all like dental and auxiliaries where you get people aged over 60 years would receive $1000’? more or less nothing back. Very few people received the full bonus, thou- sands missed out completely and many more suf- Mrs Hunter of Chadstone phoned to say fered the indignity of receiving a cheque for just that her rent has gone up. The pension in- $1. crease was simply absorbed by her rental Labor is committed to addressing the unfairness increase. Now she struggles to meet basic of the GST and ensuring older Australians are maintenance costs for her garden and things treated with the dignity and respect they deserve. like cleaning out her spouting. I had another In response to this letter, my office has been letter from a constituent which said: absolutely inundated with calls—calls ac- From the day I was naturalised Australian, during knowledging that the letter hits the nail on his Honourable Mr Menzies Prime Minister time, the head, calls that show that they are suf- I and my wife and grown-up children have always fering under the GST. I would like to put on voted for the Liberal Party and never regretted it the record today some of the responses my till the result of the last election. We voted you office has received. Mrs Sturgeon of Bur- in— wood rang to say that she agreed with the This letter was actually to the Prime Minis- letter. She eats only every other day now. ter— 26174 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 with your idea to revitalise the taxation system to give them regular financial assistance to help with this GST, as its hell was hidden and we them meet their increased costs. Unfortunately trusted you. they are refusing to accept my assistance as they To cut it short, as you feel the heat today with the are finding it embarrassing and humiliating to petrol prices, the excise on beer and wine, the rely on their children and have their dignity downturn in the finance sector, where you go you stripped from them. I believe the elderly are hear that the b... GST is killing us et cetera. I as a feeling increasingly vulnerable and it is morally pensioner found myself poorer of $18 per week or wrong. The government has shown that they are $36 per fortnight. prepared to spend part of the budget surplus. Why not spend some on the pensioners? After paying my rates, my housing and furniture insurance, car registration, electricity/gas bills For your consideration and hopeful support in the and the weekly supermarket, there is nothing left future. to pay the health insurance. I think these examples beautifully sum up the His letter goes on and on. Another one I re- feeling out there in the electorates. Any of ceived was from a veteran pensioner, who you only need to go outside your front doors said: and talk to the constituents walking past to I come under Veterans Affairs which is on a par know that what I am saying is true. This with pensioners payments. Yes, it is a battle to government has no idea that it has been survive, as the GST has hit all accounts, plus the elected to govern to protect the vulnerable in two per cent was an insult to all. the community. No, this government is try- Another one I think sums up rather nicely ing its best to absolve itself from the respon- some of the feelings of my electorate. It sibility of government. Its first term was reads: spent redefining what an election promise was, whether it was core or non-core. This I am writing to you on behalf of my elderly par- term has been marked by blatantly broken ents who are currently receiving the old age pen- sion and are struggling to offset the higher prices promises: beer will not rise by more than 1.9 caused by the GST. per cent, petrol will not go up, everyone over 60 will get a thousand dollar saving bonus, My parents are Greek Australian migrants who arrived in this wonderful and prosperous country pensions will increase to compensate for the over 45 years ago; they have worked difficult and GST, and on and on. Even my 18-month-old labour intensive jobs as a motor mechanic and a Madeleine would know that telling such machinist. They have worked intensely and con- whoppers would get you into trouble, but it sistently for all these years. They paid off their does not seem that this government under- home and saved some money in order to educate stands. and raise their children who have now become As well as the daring feats of triple pike professionally employed. My parents raised us with strong family values and with a committed somersaults and backflips, this government work ethic. Unfortunately in their working years are going to hold on to office at all costs. But they were not fortunate enough to have a compul- they just do not care. They actually do not sory superannuation scheme as for the work force understand the impact these broken promises of today. are having on ordinary people’s lives. What While salary earners have received tax cuts to the government have not done is govern. compensate them for the higher post GST prices, They have not realised that they are running those on pensions have been given only 2 per cent a country, not a corporation. In my electorate more, and this was not enough to compensate for of Chisholm there are over 7,000 pensioners, the higher prices. including an enormous number of self- The government might be right when it says pen- funded retirees. These are the people who are sioners were paid in advance for the rise in the struggling with everyday issues to survive. CPI. The point the pensioners make is that what And it is going to get worse. Recent eco- they got is not enough. They have to struggle with nomic indicators confirm that the economy is the higher costs of food and bills and the situation slowing and the effects of this are having an is such that many are digging into their savings. enormous impact on savings behaviour. A Fortunately enough for my parents I am required Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26175 recent ING Melbourne Institute Household Imports: Orange Juice Concentrate Saving Report found: Mrs HULL (Riverina) (5.47 p.m.)—I rise The proportion of households either running up today to speak on behalf of the Riverina cit- debt or drawing on savings rose to 12.6 per cent rus growers. This is a grievance debate and I in the March quarter 2001, up from 8.8 per cent genuinely grieve for the plight of these proud and 9.2 per cent in the March and December producers. The citrus industry is one of the quarters 2000 respectively. Fewer households largest horticultural industries in Australia, report that they are able to save some of their income ... with an estimated gross value of production of $392 million and exports of around $138 So we are seeing that there is a downturn in million. It is the largest fresh fruit exporting the number of people saving and an increase industry and Australia is the fourth largest in the use of credit. Since the Howard gov- citrus producing country in the Southern ernment came to power, we have seen credit Hemisphere after Brazil. The citrus industry card debt go from $6.6 billion to $15.9 bil- is an important contributor to the Australian lion. People are out there actually living on economy and is critical to the economy of their credit cards—using their credit cards to the Riverina. pay their normal day-to-day living expenses. Approximately 8,000 people are directly We have also seen a rapid rise in a thing and indirectly dependent upon citrus growing called payday lenders. This is a terrible in the Riverina. The Riverina citrus growers situation we have seen proliferate. You can have embraced change and have restructured literally borrow an amount of money and within their industry over many years. They promise to pay it back on payday but, be- have conducted massive tree pulls and cause the amount of time for which you have changed focus from the Valencia juice mar- borrowed is under 62 days, there is actually ket to the navel fresh fruit export market. no legislation to cover you and you could be They have taken jobs off farm in order to paying anything up to 100 per cent or 150 continue a proud tradition of growing citrus per cent interest on your loan. People are for this nation. They have planned, refo- literally taking them out to meet their gro- cussed, restructured, reworked, removed and cery bills or, heaven forbid, to replace the replanted, and they have used up all of their washing machine or the fridge if it dies. family reserves waiting for these actions to These people will never get a loan from a bear fruit. All of this is in their hands. But bank, but they will get a loan from a payday the one thing that they cannot do is to reject lender. the dreaded orange juice concentrate that So the Howard government has created floods into this country. This situation is to- this situation, this loss of confidence in the tally out of their control. community, this absolute nightmare for those In 1999 we saw the equivalent of 550,000 individuals who are now worse off. Where is tonnes of fresh fruit come into our market in the sense of a relaxed and comfortable Aus- the form of second-rate concentrate. Under tralia where we all get a fair go? This gov- successive governments of both persuasions, ernment is happy to talk about budget deficit the growers of the Riverina have had their but what about the social deficit they have farm gate returns progressively eroded from created? What about the great divide be- around $340 per tonne to $40 to $50 per tween the haves and the have nots? As you tonne currently. Bearing in mind that the cost can see, the social black hole continues to of production is around $200, these growers widen, but no-one in this government seems are experiencing losses anywhere from $130 to care. We need a government that will care, to $150 per tonne depending on the farm. we need a government that will deliver to Obtaining harvest labour is a major problem people who live on fixed incomes, who live for our growers as well, and has been for on pensions. We need a Beazley Labor gov- many years. However, at the moment my ernment that will deliver back to the com- growers are using family members to harvest munity. 26176 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 their fruit as they cannot afford the labour profit to the country of Australia. My grow- costs. ers are dumping their magnificent produce in The citrus growers in the Riverina are mass graves whilst we, the consumer, are proud upstanding citizens who have been served up a grossly inferior product. Super- reduced to relying solely on Centrelink par- markets should also be ashamed of them- enting and family payments for daily sur- selves. They force prices down and pay next vival. They are considered to be asset rich to nothing for citrus fruit and yet never does because of inflated property valuations and the consumer see this price reflected on the the machinery they have invested in over the shelves. If my growers were getting returns years. Most of these proud growers are living commensurate with the retail price on su- on their farms of around 20 to 40 acres— permarket shelves, they would be receiving hardly large expanses of productive property. somewhere around $450 per tonne, not any- where near the miserly $40 to $50 per tonne But they have been productive in intensive that they are receiving now. farming for many years—for many genera- tions, in fact! Due to no fault of their own In the past decade the citrus processing and something they cannot control, they have sector has faced reduced tariff protection. been forced into seeking assistance from ru- The tariff on imported orange juice declined ral counselling services. The dumping of from 35 per cent in 1988 to five per cent in cheap Brazilian concentrate at, currently, 1996. As a result, the effective rate of assis- around $30 per tonne is decimating our citrus tance for the Australian citrus industry fell industry. We might be challenged to say that from 22 per cent in the late 1980s to four per we receive some good returns and good cent in 1994-95. As I have indicated, succes- prices on the export market for our fresh sive governments have overseen the demise fruit. If we are lucky, that may reflect about of the Australian citrus industry. This should 10 per cent of production and that is on a be no more. We have seen tariff reduction heavily graded crop. The letters and repre- result in thousands of Valencia trees being sentations that I receive from my citrus pulled out. It may be said that to increase farming families are desperate and break my tariffs would be to lead to higher orange heart. juice prices for the Australian consumer, but I say that, if Australian people knew the On 28 November 2000 I brought together strength, the courage and the conviction of in Canberra all the nation’s major citrus the Riverina citrus families that I represent growers and they were united in their plea. they would gladly pay more. They have now almost finished putting to- gether the required strategy that our Austra- Packaging and labelling laws have been lian citrus industry will need to survive this under consideration and have been imple- issue. They will soon be putting this strategy mented for some two years now. However, to the current government and I plead with we need to go a lot further for packaging and the decision makers to support our citrus labelling in order to convince the Australian industry. Pressure should be put on those consumer that they should be buying Aus- companies that are importing concentrate to tralian produce. We need to put it clearly to justify their prices. Make them prove that them so that they recognise that when they they are not dumping; make them prove that buy Australian produce they are supporting they are not using child labour. It is this un- Australian jobs. The growers need the Aus- precedented low cost of concentrate that tralian consumers to recognise the impor- processors are using as a benchmark for how tance of the inputs that go into farming these much they will pay my growers in the Riv- productive areas. erina. If you fly over the areas of Leeton and Companies like McDonalds that import Griffith you will see that it is a majestic, concentrate should commit to our local in- proud sight to behold. It is like a patchwork dustries, they should commit to returning quilt. It is a most glorious sight to look down Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26177 upon the orange groves and the horticultural Family and Community Services Legislation district and see what we produce in such a Amendment (New Zealand Citizens) Bill 2001 small concentrated area. These are farmers of CRIMES AMENDMENT (AGE great tradition. They have turned dry and DETERMINATION) BILL 2001 dusty bowls out in the Griffith area and out Second Reading in the MIA into a flood and a feast of horti- culture, not just for the Australian nation but Debate resumed from 7 March, on motion for export and for international purposes. by Dr Stone: They deserve to be rewarded. They do not That the bill be now read a second time. deserve to be seen asking for handouts in Mr KERR (Denison) (5.58 p.m.)—The Centrelink queues or to be forced into under- Crimes Amendment (Age Determination) standing how they are to survive from day to Bill 2001 amends the Crimes Act to allow day. for prescribed procedures to be used to de- The plight of the citrus industry is great, termine a person’s age if a person is sus- one that we should recognise. It is a valuable pected of having committed a Common- industry to Australia. It is a valuable industry wealth offence and where it is not practical and has been for many years. We must de- to determine that person’s age by other cide now that we want citrus growers in means. We understand that the prescribed Australia, that we want this great industry to procedures which the government proposes survive. All governments over all these years to introduce will mean X-rays of the wrist have not recognised that in totality. Sure, bones, which set in adult form at about the they received a citrus market diversification age of 18. The bill will allow an official to program in the early 1990s, but did it actu- arrange for an age determination procedure ally resolve to resurrect the industry or did it to be carried out with either the consent of just give false hope and open fewer markets the suspect or by a magistrate’s order. Before than was intended? These citrus growers doing so there must be reasonable grounds to need new markets. They need 25 per cent suspect that the person has committed a local content in the concentrate area. They Commonwealth offence, some uncertainty as need processors to recognise the value of to whether the person is under 18, and the having local fresh produce. They need so necessity that the uncertainty be resolved in many things and they are asking for just one order to determine the application of the thing: a fair go. They just want to survive. rules governing the person’s detention or the This day I stand and represent in this griev- investigation or institution of criminal pro- ance debate something that I came into this ceedings. parliament seeking to resolve, something The distinction between adults and chil- that, to this point, I have not been able to dren is an important one as there are many resolve and something that I will not lay protections afforded juveniles in an investi- down until such time as I have brought about gation or with respect to their detention, trial justice, equality and equity for the citrus and sentencing. It is the government’s claim growers of the Riverina. that there is a growing need for an age de- Question resolved in the affirmative. termination measure because many people ASSENT TO BILLS who are the subject of investigations, if they are suspected of having committed a Com- Message from the Governor-General re- monwealth offence, are not Australian citi- ported informing the House of assent to the zens and may not have documentation which following bills: enables the authorities readily to ascertain Veterans’ Affairs Legislation Amendment their age. The government has identified (Application of Criminal Code) Bill 2001 people-smuggling and drug importation as Aircraft Noise Levy Collection Amendment two criminal enterprises where the age Bill 2001 bracket of a number of suspects has been hard to determine. 26178 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

It is also to be noted that the procedures It is rare that I take these opportunities, provided for in this bill will be used in in- but I commend the work of the Senate Legal vestigations for the whole range of Com- and Constitutional Committee. I have held monwealth offences, not just for people- the view for a considerable period of time smuggling and drug offences. But, of course, that we underutilise committees of this those are the matters which have given rise House. In many instances I think it would be to the sense that this legislation is impera- very appropriate for ministers’ advisers to tive. The bill requires the suspect to be in- reflect on suggesting to the minister that an formed of the purpose and nature of the pro- alternative course would be to suggest any cedure, any equipment to be involved and its legislation of this nature be referred to the risks, and that the seeking of consent is to be House committee for report. But, in practice, recorded. If a procedure is required, reason- it tends to be the case that governments ex- able and necessary force will be allowed in pect the compliance of the House of Repre- order to carry it out. The bill also contains sentatives, assume it will pass the legislation penalties for the improper disclosure of in- in the form in which it is introduced by gov- formation obtained through these age deter- ernment, and see the real discussion and de- mination procedures and requires that the bate occurring in the Senate. That does mean information be destroyed 12 months after an that the Senate Legal and Constitutional investigation concludes. Committee has a very large workload. When this bill was introduced, the oppo- I place on record my appreciation, in par- sition indicated that it understood the reasons ticular, for the chair of the Senate Legal and for the legislation but suggested to the gov- Constitutional References Committee, ernment that it would be appropriate to refer Senator McKiernan, who I believe has done it to the Senate Legal and Constitutional an extraordinarily good job dealing with the Committee for detailed examination. This wide range of legislation that has been put bill, like others that the parliament has con- before his committee in the recent months. sidered recently, involves the use of new Might I also—and I think this is something I technology for law enforcement purposes. should do—express some appreciation for Whilst we should be taking advantage of the sometimes irritating contributions of new technology as it arises, we believe it is Senator Barney Cooney. Barney Cooney is important to ensure that any legislation em- one of those key individuals who has a role powering the use of such technology, and the in this parliament that he will never let go of. actual way in which it is to be used, includes The role he has taken to himself is to stand appropriate concerns for the protection of up for the principles of civil liberties which civil liberties. sometimes, he believes, get insufficient at- The bill was referred to the Senate Legal tention by both government and opposition. and Constitutional Committee for review, He is just as difficult a contender for an op- and the committee’s report contained a num- position shadow minister for justice to deal ber of recommendations that the bill should with as he is for those on the government be amended and also suggestions that the side. I am of the belief that this parliament’s explanatory memorandum should be altered. dignity is immeasurably enhanced by the The opposition have had discussions re- contributions that Senator Cooney has made garding these recommendations with gov- over the years and I believe that the legisla- ernment advisers who, in turn, have had dis- tive program of this parliament, and the leg- cussions with the minister. We are aware that islation that emerges out of the parliamentary the government has already circulated a process, is much better for those contribu- number of amendments to the bill today, tions. amendments which come with the support of I think the community also ought to be the opposition and which arise out of the aware that there is within our ranks in this committee’s recommendation. parliament, both in the House and in the Senate, a number of people who hold the Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26179 principles of civil liberties as their prime and the consent of a parent or guardian. Re- reason for being a member of the parliament, membering that this may be an infant or a and their commitment to these objectives child, it would not be sufficient simply to remains undiminished and unflagged not- obtain their consent. Before the test of age is withstanding many years of service in this carried out, we do not know whether or not place. I think Senator McKiernan, who they are under the age of 18. For that reason, chairs that committee, carries an enormous the bill provides that, as well as their indi- burden of work. I think he deserves special vidual consent to the procedure, consent commendation because, in a sense, he is ex- would have to be obtained from a parent or pected, with his committee, to deal with guardian. The committee recommended that matters that come forward, often with little consent had to be obtained from the person notice and with an expressed urgency to deal and from an independent adult. That recom- with those matters, and he has a membership mendation stemmed from a concern that it which includes senators on both sides who might not be appropriate for a member of an are not going to allow themselves to be used investigating team—a member of a police as rubber stamps. I think his wisdom, in the force or of the Customs Service who may not way in which he has managed that process be involved in the particular investigation over a long period of time, is something but would otherwise possibly be available as which should be acknowledged in the re- an adult to give consent—to give consent on marks I make in the debate on this legisla- behalf of children in such instances. The tion. government will be moving amendments to Several comments arising from the com- the bill to ensure that that consent is obtained mittee’s recommendations and amendments from an independent person. Again, I thank should be made. The first point I should turn the government’s advisers and the minister to is that the committee recommended that for their cooperation. where a person is the subject of an investi- The committee recommended amend- gation that person should be informed of the ments to the bill to provide that a person availability of legal assistance. The Austra- must be informed of the reasons and pur- lian Federal Police and the Attorney- poses for carrying out a procedure. The rea- General’s Department have advised the op- son for that is that it is important a person position that a person subject to investigation not only consents to the procedure but under- is always given that information and that stands what such a procedure might be used they will be provided with that information for. Government amendments adopting this prior to being asked to consent for an age recommendation will be moved and of determination procedure. This will not be course we will support them. The govern- reflected in an amendment to the legislation ment has agreed with the opposition to move but is reflected in the undertakings and ad- an amendment which picks up the commit- vice that we have received from the Attor- tee’s recommendation that a person who has ney-General’s Department and I am certain given consent has to be told before the pro- is supported by the minister and will be cedure takes place that that consent could be made operationally clear to those who will withdrawn. The committee has also recom- be dealing with these measures as they arise. mended that legislation be amended to spec- The committee recommended that the bill ify that age determination equipment must be be amended to ensure that a person who un- operated by an appropriately qualified per- dertakes an age determination procedure can son, and the government will certainly be be accompanied by a person of his or her addressing that measure. I interpolate here choice. The government have circulated that, while currently the government antici- amendments which provide for this and I pates that the regulations will provide for age appreciate their cooperation. The bill allows determination procedures to be undertaken for an age determination procedure to be by means of the X-ray of wrist bones, the carried out with the consent of the person legislation would allow other procedures to 26180 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 be used. Therefore, it is important that the appear to be around the age of 18, particu- undertakings that the government has given larly as it applies to the whole diversity of in this regard are made and on the Hansard humankind who may come forward in rela- record. tion to suspicion of commission of offences I also indicate that the government’s ad- against the Commonwealth. Human physiol- visers have indicated to the opposition that, ogy develops differently in different parts of if any other procedures are proposed for the world, and there may be the odd person scheduling or for regulation, they would not above the age of 25 who still appears slightly intend them to be any more intrusive than the under the age of 18. So, rather than accepting taking of X-rays of wrist bones. They believe that specific recommendation of the com- that, as technologies emerge and as identifi- mittee, the government has indicated that it cation procedures become better able to util- will only be used where there is reasonable ise scientific procedures, there may be less doubt about whether a person falls in that intrusive mechanisms. Certainly, while the band of around the age of 18 but that it may language of the legislation is quite broad, the actually be applied to people who are slightly opposition would not want to be seen in any older than 25, if it is the case that their way to be supporting the proposition that we physiognomy suggests that there is some would consent to regulations allowing more doubt. intrusive processes. Given that we have been The government has also undertaken to given assurances that that is not intended, all make a statement in the Senate, when the bill we can do is to note that point and to indicate comes before that place, confirming that the that, were a future government ever so needs of special groups will be met at the minded to move in that direction, we would interview and in all other processes. Again, be quite willing to propose disallowance of this ought to be straightforward. Plainly, such regulations. We would not see it as nec- when legislation of this nature applies to essary. I think that is well understood on both people who may have intellectual disabilities sides of the political divide. or who may lack English language skills, it is The opposition also supports the commit- important that appropriate steps be put in tee’s recommendations that the bill be place to take into account their particular amended so as to ensure that the procedure is needs. Again, I thank the minister’s advisers carried out in a manner consistent with ap- and the minister for their cooperation in that propriate medical standards and appropriate regard. The opposition will be supporting professional standards. The government will this bill in the House in the anticipation that be accepting this recommendation and the all these measures which have been dis- opposition certainly is glad of that. The cussed are carried through—some, of course, committee made a number of representations through amendments which have been tabled which will not require amendments to the and others which will require government bill but which will require some government action through the minister’s statements in action. The opposition has been assured by the Senate. The committee also recom- the government that the following will occur. mended that information, including radio- The explanatory memorandum will be re- logical studies relevant to age determination vised so as to make it clear that the bill ap- of young persons of various racial and cul- plies to all Commonwealth offences and that tural backgrounds, including women, be it will apply to age determination only in regularly sought and used in order to ensure respect of people who appear to be young that the prescribed procedures are of maxi- people. This might be thought to be an abun- mum utility; that is, to make certain that they dance of caution. The committee suggested are as accurate in their readings as possible. that it apply only to people between the ages The opposition endorses that recommenda- of only 15 and 25. The government quite tion and expects the government will, in the correctly said that it is possible that some- ordinary course, ensure that it is pursued. body beyond those ages might superficially Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26181

On the basis that the government’s wishes to proceed in that direction, does not amendments have been circulated and that allow parliamentary time for the debate on they take into account those concerns, we the opposition’s legislation and, indeed, the will be supporting the passage of this bill. I passage of that legislation through the House should again indicate that this has been a so that we can actually obtain a result which good exercise in cooperation between the is effective in terms of addressing one of the minister and his advisers and the opposition. key areas of concern in the community; that Originally, this measure was pegged onto a is, attacking crime at the point where crime larger piece of legislation regarding forensic is most vulnerable to attack—its proceeds. procedures to which it was not directly re- After all, people who are engaged in serious lated. I expressed at the time some concern crime undertake that crime for financial mo- that, given that forensic procedures legisla- tives. They do that in order to secure for tion had already been the subject of a par- themselves rewards, riches and lifestyles liamentary inquiry, these measures might which are beyond them through the normal send alarm signals through the whole system licit activities that we encourage within the and delay a package of measures which had community. If there are effective ways of reached a point where there was broad con- stripping them of their assets that would be sensus. The minister accepted that point of more readily available to law enforcement view and then reintroduced the legislation as but without infringing those fundamental stand-alone legislation and, through this pro- principles of civil liberty that we hold im- cess, has continued to liaise with the opposi- portant, it is a task that I think all in this par- tion. I think that the legislation, as it has liament should commit themselves to. And, emerged, will be effective in achieving the given that the opposition has taken the lead ends that the government has sought, but will in relation to this matter and has twice intro- also include a few additional safeguards duced that legislation, might I commend to which have emerged through the parliamen- the minister’s advisers sitting opposite that tary process. they take back to the minister my request Finally, I commend to the minister’s ad- that parliamentary time be accorded to this visers the legislation I introduced in the legislation. It may well be a matter that could House this morning regarding the civil con- have proper examination in a House of Rep- fiscation of assets of those engaged in crime. resentatives standing committee or go The minister has made a public statement through this House and be addressed by a that he proposes to take such legislation to Senate committee. However it is addressed, cabinet. The advice that I have received—not it is not a matter that can be put into cold through any inappropriate disclosure by any storage and allowed to slide off the agenda of the minister’s advisers, might I make the when so manifestly the Law Reform Com- claim—is that that submission has not yet mission and law enforcement in Australia gone to cabinet. It would seem to me that, have said it must be on the agenda. With where there has been good cooperation, there those few remarks, I commend this legisla- would be no reason for this government not tion to the House. to adopt the legislation put forward in the Mr PYNE (Sturt) (6.22 p.m.)—The House this morning by the opposition—leg- growth crime of the new century is the in- islation which has had a long gestation and sidious practice of people-smuggling. Ac- which has been available in exposure draft cording to Interpol, people-smuggling is now now for well over a year—to accommodate the third-largest moneymaker for organised an objective that the government says it in- crime syndicates, after drug and gun traf- tends to achieve. ficking. A recent United Nations report esti- So this process of cooperation should not mates that global profits from people- be one way. I believe that it would be very trafficking have grown to $US9 billion and unfortunate and more than a little hypocriti- will soon exceed international drug profits. cal if the government, having said that it As we debate the Crimes Amendment (Age 26182 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

Determination) Bill 2001, there are approxi- sweatshops in 28 cities, from Milan to Rome, mately four million people being smuggled and broke up a criminal network of about around the world. Like most developed 200 gangsters in China, Russia and Italy. countries, Australia is experiencing a boom The biggest wave of illegal immigrants is in the number of illegal migrants penetrating by far and away from China. Conservative our borders. People in countries with fewer estimates say that the number of illegal im- opportunities than Australia are motivated to migrants from China is around 100,000 per immigrate here because of our prosperity and year. In the United Kingdom, it is believed our economic and political stability. that tens of thousands of asylum seekers Last month an international people- have disappeared into the community. In smuggling syndicate alleged to be responsi- 1998, it is understood that 19,000 applicants ble for the flow of $12 million from Austra- vanished in the United Kingdom, with this lia to Hong Kong was smashed following the figure projected to rise to 115,000 in 2002. arrest of 20 people in three countries. In The US Immigration Service estimates Sydney, six Chinese people were detained by there are over five million illegal immigrants the Department of Immigration and Multi- living in the United States. This figure of cultural Affairs. Four were illegal immi- five million would be closer to eight million grants and two had their visas cancelled. In if it were not for the 1986 legislation that Britain, two were arrested as part of the same legalised two classes of undocumented mi- ring, with officials seizing $300,000 in cash grants in the United States. The Immigration and a quantity of illegal drugs. More than Service estimates that approximately 120 false travel documents were seized in the 275,000 illegal immigrants enter the United operation. States every year. The flow of illegal immi- There are some sections of the Australian grants across the United States-Mexico bor- community under the impression, perhaps der is a continuing problem for the United misled by Pauline Hanson’s One Nation States government. Despite the enormous Party, that Australia is the only country that financial and technological resources at the has a border management problem. The disposal of the United States, and the com- business of illegal migration and people- paratively small border with Mexico, illegal smuggling is not a problem confined to Aus- migrants from Mexico account for about 60 tralia. The deputy director of the United per cent of the total illegal migrants in the Kingdom Immigration Service claims that United States. Cuba is another border man- the European Union had up to 800,000 ille- agement problem for the United States. The gal arrivals in 1999-2000. This is a 20-fold United States grants asylum to 20,000 Cu- increase on the 1993 estimate of 40,000. bans every year, and yet the number of ille- There is a mounting body of evidence that gal migrants from Cuba is presently on the suggests the cause of this dramatic increase rise. In the nine months from January to Oc- can be attributed to the proliferation of tober 1998, just 615 Cubans reached Florida sweatshops throughout Europe and the ac- to seek asylum; in the nine months follow- tivities of transnational organised crime syn- ing, this figure almost tripled, to 1,690. dicates. Transnational people-smuggling syndi- In 1999, a distressed Chinese man ap- cates are using the hope of a better life to peared at a military police headquarters in induce people to illegally immigrate to more the Italian city of Milan begging for help. prosperous countries. They harness the hopes His wife, an illegal immigrant, had attempted of their victims with false promises; assur- to escape slave-like working conditions in a ances of instant employment upon arrival are garment sweatshop near Milan. But the Chi- common, as well as the promise that they nese gangsters who had arranged her illegal will earn above average wages. They allay passage to Italy captured her at gunpoint. their fears of being caught by falsely assur- Her husband’s complaint led to raids on ing them that authorities are powerless to Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26183 extradite them and that it is easy to qualify We all know that globalisation has ration- for permanent residency. With no contradic- alised, centralised and modernised national tory information available, those desperate economies, but it is also true that globalisa- for a better life submit themselves to the tion has rationalised, centralised and mod- terms and conditions imposed on them by ernised organised crime groups. As competi- organised crime smugglers. In effect, they tion between international organised crime are unwittingly committing themselves to a syndicates increases, power struggles are life of slavery. likely to be replaced by mergers between For the organised people smugglers, it is syndicates to efficiently use resources, all about debt bondage—the practice of maximise profit and profit-making opportu- smuggling people into a country such as nities and improve risk management prac- Australia and making them pay off that debt tices by pooling intelligence to counter sur- when they arrive in the country. It is not a veillance and investigation. debt that can be realistically settled. In real Sitting suspended from 6.30 p.m. to 8.00 terms, the debt can be the equivalent of p.m. $50,000. In practice, repayments can be Mr PYNE—Before the suspension I was made only by slowly working off the debt, in the process of talking about the big busi- usually through illegal activities such as ness that is now organised crime around the prostitution and drug smuggling on behalf of world. If it all sounds like big business, that the transnational crime syndicates that or- is because it is big business. That is why il- ganised their illegal entry to Australia. Their legal immigration and the debt bondage it servitude can also take other forms, such as brings are so important to organised crime loan sharking, protection rackets, money gangs. They are able to use the people they laundering operations, importation and dis- smuggle into a country as dispensable foot tribution of narcotics, kidnapping, fraud, soldiers. It is an effective way of putting an- vice, extortion, contract killing, slave trading other barrier between the organised crime and the tragic practice of child prostitution. bosses and law enforcement agencies. The Sydney Morning Herald has reported that hundreds of new brothels have opened Organised transnational crime can be ef- across Sydney. Estimates put forward by fectively tackled only through an integrated federal government departments suggest global approach. Australia has been an active there are up to 300 sex slaves in Australia, participant in a coordinated international the majority of whom are illegal immigrants attack on transnational crime. Australia who have originally come from the South- joined more than 140 countries at the World East Asian region. Ministerial Conference on Organised Trans- national Crime, which was held in Naples Clearly, transnational organised crime has over five years ago. The outcome of the con- become a major international epidemic, con- ference was an action plan to develop a ho- tinually evolving and keeping abreast of listic approach to combat transnational or- technological advancements. As new busi- ganised crime by the harmonisation of na- ness and economic opportunities surface, the tional legislation. Central to the action plan tentacles of organised crime are never far is the understanding that all countries must away. Organised crime gangs have an in- work together in responding to this threat. credible ability not only to adapt to change but to expand through the most recent and Illegal immigration presents other prob- superior technology. For instance, people lems for Australia beyond transnational or- smugglers based in Florida are now using ganised crime syndicates. Unlike legal im- powerful speedboats which are capable of migrants, who undergo extensive medical reaching high speeds to either reach Ameri- tests, illegal immigrants do not necessarily can shores without detection or, if detected come into Australia with a clean bill of during their journey, outrun coastguard health. Some illegal immigrants arrive with boats. life threatening diseases such as cancer and 26184 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 motor neurone disorder. This situation has that is equivalent to slavery. That includes enormous potential to create serious prob- debt bondage and associated practices. Other lems for our health system. In Canada, for legislative measures now impose penalties instance, 1,500 refugee claimants with tuber- involving 20 years jail and fines up to a culosis are living in the community, with 500 maximum of $220,000 for those convicted of refusing treatment. In Britain, the incidence smuggling five or more people into Austra- of tuberculosis rose by 12 per cent in 2000, lia. It is the professional people-smugglers illegal immigrants and refugees accounting and the organised crime gangs behind them for half the cases. that our strategy is attacking. There are also concerns that illegal immi- The Minister for Immigration and Multi- gration may threaten Australia’s refugee pro- cultural Affairs, Philip Ruddock, has also gram, a humanitarian contribution of which embarked on an ambitious international we can all be proud. Every illegal arrival campaign aimed at disseminating informa- costs the Australian taxpayer around tion to increase overseas awareness that ille- $50,000. Australia has resettled 600,000 gal immigration will not be tolerated by the refugees in the last 50 years. We resettle Australian government. The coalition gov- more refugees on a per capita basis than any ernment has invested $16 million in the other country except Canada. We resettle Australian Federal Police to combat the twice the number per capita than the United growing trade in human cargo. We are now States. As the number of illegal immigrants seeing major syndicates smashed as a result being caught and detained increases, it places of their efforts. Seven arrest warrants have a strain on our financial and logistical capac- been issued by the Australian Federal Po- ity to service our refugee program that pres- lice’s people-smuggling task force since its ently assists about 12,000 genuine cases inception last July. Cooperative efforts have every year. also been established with authorities from The coalition government has also intro- other countries to control the problem at its duced a number of legislative measures and source. Jakarta police broke a passport for- initiatives to complement our coordinated gery ring and seized 180 passports, 55 visa international strategy. The border protection stamps and other material used in the people- legislation, which we debated in this House smuggling process. Thai authorities have over 12 months ago and upon which I spoke, also seized over 1,000 counterfeit passports gave Customs officials extra power in polic- as well as document-producing equipment. ing our coastal border. That legislation com- The provisions of this bill presently before plemented the commissioning of new antis- the House complement these initiatives. This muggling vessels that have the latest tech- bill provides for a person to be tested with nology to protect our borders. These vessels prescribed equipment, usually an X-ray, to can sail in extreme conditions and can be at determine their age for identification, inves- sea for up to 23 days. The new vessels will tigation, custody, trial, sentencing and related also make our border protection efforts more purposes where it is not practicable to deter- cost effective and allow officials to redirect mine age by other means. Determining the resources to other areas in the fight against age of a suspect is particularly important in people-smuggling. relation to people-smuggling offences where The Criminal Code Amendment (Slavery people under investigation refuse to provide and Sexual Servitude) Act 1999 is another details of their age, make the false claim that measure introduced by this government that they are under the age of 18 years or have no fights one of the symptoms of people- reliable documentation to support their age. smuggling: debt bondage. The bill prescribes The proposed bill will send a strong message penalties of up to 25 years imprisonment for to those engaged in people-smuggling that those convicted of intentionally owning a they cannot circumvent or abuse the Austra- slave or exercising power over somebody lian legal system by deceptively claiming they are under the age of 18 years. It will Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26185 also avoid the undesirable situation of plac- I will briefly address each of the commit- ing adult suspects in juvenile detention fa- tee’s recommendations. Recommendation 1 cilities or vice versa. contains three separate points. The first will But the most effective long-term means of be accommodated by the government’s pro- controlling illegal people-smuggling is to posed amendment at item (6). The proposed assist, where possible, in ensuring the eco- new subsection 3ZQC(4) expressly preserves nomic and political stability of our region. A the right of suspects at the preliminary stages paper produced by the Institute for the Study of investigations, when an age determination of International Migration, which is based in procedure may well occur. Of most import is Georgetown University in Washington, noted their right to communicate with a friend, that ‘stabilising economic growth and de- relative or legal practitioner and a relevant mocracy may be the most effective long-term consular office, the latter being an important means of reducing migration pressures’. This safeguard where foreign nationals are in- confirms the sensible approach of the Aus- volved. These existing statutory safeguards tralian government’s commitment to assist- are in part IC of the Crimes Act 1914. The ing our neighbours in various capacities. As second point will be met by proposed gov- the Prime Minister and the Minister for For- ernment amendment at item (5). The gov- eign Affairs have often indicated, a stable ernment accepts that the person on whom the Asian region is in the national interest of procedure is to be carried out should have, as Australia. These initiatives and this bill de- far as is reasonably practicable, a person of serve the full support of the opposition. I am his or her choice present while the procedure grateful for the member for Denison’s con- is carried out. The government will not adopt tribution and his indication of support for the the third point. It is not necessary. Magis- bill. I, too, commend the bill to the House. trates can be relied upon to deal with these matters fairly. I should add that, unlike fo- Mr WILLIAMS (Tangney—Attorney- rensic procedures, age determination proce- General) (8.07 p.m.)—I thank both the mem- dures are not about gathering evidence to ber for Denison and the member for Sturt for establish that a person has committed a their careful consideration of the Crimes crime; they are about ascertaining a person’s Amendment (Age Determination) Bill 2001. age so that they can be afforded the appro- The bill contains important measures to pre- priate safeguards as soon as possible. Many scribe procedures to determine a person’s magisterial applications must occur over the age where that person is suspected of having phone when a suspect is apprehended in re- committed a Commonwealth offence or mote areas of Australia. It is not appropriate charged with a Commonwealth offence and to include a statutory right to make submis- where it is not practicable to determine a sions in person to magistrates. person’s age by other means. The bill was introduced into the House on 7 March of this Recommendation 2 is accepted by the year and was considered by the Senate Legal government and would be met by item (2) of and Constitutional Legislation Committee. the amendments so that it is clear that only The committee reported on the bill on 27 an independent adult person can provide March 2001. The committee made a number consent. I reiterate at this point the fact that a of recommendations concerning the bill. The prescribed procedure can occur with in- government will accept some of these rec- formed consent under the proposed measures ommendations but not others. Some of the only if two separate sets of consent are ob- recommendations only require changes to the tained: first, the informed consent of the per- explanatory memorandum. Appropriate son on whom the prescribed procedure will changes will be included in the revised ex- be carried out is required; and, second, the planatory memorandum lodged with the informed consent of either a parent or Senate. Additional recommendations do not guardian of that person or, if a parent or require any changes to the bill or the ex- guardian is not available or acceptable to that planatory memorandum. person, an independent adult person other 26186 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 than an investigating official involved in the last week. The government accepts the investigation of the person is required. With- committee’s fourth point. However, it is not out these two separate consents a prescribed necessary to change the bill, because pro- procedure can proceed only with magisterial posed section 3ZQE already ensures that authorisation. The government proposes an video or audio recordings of the informed additional amendment here to clarify that consent process are taken where practicable. those persons required to give consent can do Otherwise, a written record must be made. A so in person or by telephone or other elec- copy of this record must also be given to the tronic means. It is anticipated that, wherever suspect. possible, the consent of an independent adult The first two matters at recommendation 5 person would be obtained in person. How- are no more than standard procedural fair- ever, there may be situations where it may ness considerations regularly applied by not be possible to obtain independent con- judges and magistrates. The government sent in person. does not consider it necessary to express The government will not accept recom- legislate in this area. The government sup- mendation 3, which would restrict the pow- ports the thrust of the committee’s third point ers to seek consent for an age determination and will make sure that a person is informed procedure to federal, state and territory offi- that they can withdraw consent at any time. cers. There is no logical reason why other Although the ability to withdraw consent is investigators who already have parliament’s implicit in the nature of consent, it is consid- imprimatur to investigate and arrest a suspect ered preferable to expressly state this in the should not have the same ability to determine bill. Item (4) of the government’s proposed that suspect’s age. The proposed restriction amendments achieves this. The government would result in less protection for young considers that the fourth point is already people where the investigators are not police. covered by the existing law of reasonable Recommendation 4 contains four separate and necessary force and the comprehensive points. The first relates to problems of com- training AFP officers receive on the use of prehension confronting law enforcement of- force. Immigration and Customs officers, ficers every day in the field. The bill already who may occasionally be required to exer- requires informed consent to be sought in a cise the powers in the bill, are similarly language in which the person communicates trained. Force will not be ‘reasonable and with reasonable fluency. In some instances necessary’ unless the officer applying force this will require the use of interpreters. It is took stock of all relevant factors, including not considered appropriate to acknowledge whether the person undergoing the procedure in legislation some people’s difficulties in understood what was happening. comprehension. Item (3) of the government The first part of recommendation 6 would amendments adopts the second point in rec- require investigators to exhaust all other ommendation 4 so that both the purpose and avenues before determining a person’s age reasons for the procedure are fully explained under the bill. Of course, in practice all rea- to the suspect. The government considers sonable alternatives would be pursued before that the third point is already covered by the using the provisions under the bill. The re- requirement to inform a suspect of the nature sults of any prescribed procedure would of the procedure and of the equipment that complement other information about a per- will be used. The committee’s concerns will son’s age: for example, their general appear- be further addressed at the operational level ance. However, an express requirement for as law enforcement officers, consistent with investigators to exhaust all other avenues their training, will minimise uncomfortable merely opens the door to unwarranted tech- situations by talking a suspect through each nical legal challenges and will frustrate the stage of the procedure as it unfolds. This is intention of the bill, which is to determine a consistent with the forensic procedure provi- person’s age early in the investigative proc- sions which were before the parliament only Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26187 ess so that children are treated and detained that the Minister for Justice and Customs is as children. required to consult with the Minister for While the government will not amend the Health and Aged Care who will, in turn, li- bill to accommodate the committee’s rec- aise with the Therapeutic Goods Admini- ommendation, the revised explanatory stration and relevant medical colleges will memorandum will more fully explain this ensure that only established and researched issue. The government agrees with the sec- procedures will be used. The regulations ond part of recommendation 6. Item (1) en- prepared by the government will specify the sures that, if prescribed equipment is to be qualifications, experience and expected role operated to determine a person’s age, an ap- of those persons involved in carrying out the propriately qualified person must operate procedures. that equipment. Recommendation 12 calls for additional The first point in recommendation 7 has research on the pre-sentencing assistance been adopted in item (7) of the government available to people with special needs. A amendments. For example, for the purposes substantial body of work in this area already of a wrist X-ray procedure, the relevant exists, including the Australian Law Reform medical standards are likely to be those de- Commission’s comprehensive report on the veloped by the Royal Australian and New rights of children throughout the federal Zealand College of Radiologists. The gov- criminal justice system, including at the in- ernment accepts the committee’s second vestigative and pre-trial stages. This report point in recommendation 7, although entitled Seen and heard: priority for children amendment will not be made to the bill itself. in the legal process reflects the legal position This kind of issue is one that can be dealt as at September 1997 and is therefore still with effectively in the regulations. The gov- current. The ALRC also addressed problems ernment is committed to addressing the experienced with our Australian criminal committee’s concerns in the regulations. justice system by Australia’s migrant popu- lation in its 1992 report entitled Multicultur- Recommendation 8 calls for changes to alism and the law. the explanatory memorandum. The govern- ment accepts the committee’s recommenda- The exhaustive analysis in the Royal tion and will incorporate statements along Commission on Aboriginal Deaths in Cus- the line proposed in the revised explanatory tody report still provides significant guidance memorandum which is tabled in the Senate. for law enforcement agencies when dealing The revised explanatory memorandum will with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander point out that there will be circumstances peoples in the investigative and pre-trial where a prescribed procedure is likely to be stages. The Human Rights and Equal Op- used on a person older than 25. The com- portunity Commission’s Report of the na- mittee’s third point can be addressed by re- tional inquiry into the human rights of peo- ferring to the current legal position that the ple with mental illness identified a number of prosecution bears the onus of establishing on steps that could be taken to alleviate diffi- the balance of probabilities that the defen- culties experienced by the mentally ill in the dant is an adult. investigative and pre-trial processes. There have also been state and territory reports on The government has prepared a statement similar issues. In light of the recent extensive requested by the committee in recommenda- consideration of the pre-sentencing assis- tion 9. The statement will be included in the tance available to people with special needs Senate second reading speech for this bill. suspected of, or charged with, Common- The government accepts the committee’s wealth offences, the government does not recommendations 10 and 11. The medical consider that further research on this issue is profession is active in ensuring that medical warranted at this time. However, the gov- procedures are appropriately used for per- ernment remains committed to ensuring that sons of different racial backgrounds. The fact people with special needs are fairly dealt 26188 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 with and will initiate further research as re- the recognition she deserves as the chair of quired. the committee, which has an impressive I also wish to address an issue raised by workload. the Senate Standing Committee for the Scru- The second point relates to the member tiny of Bills. The committee considered that for Denison’s expressed hope that his coop- the type of age determination procedures erative approach with the government’s law would be more appropriately included in and justice agenda would be reflected in the primary legislation rather than in regulations. government supporting the ALP’s Proceeds The Minister for Justice and Customs has of Crime (Amendment) Bill 2000 and ac- responded to the committee stating that the cording parliamentary debate time to con- prescription of procedures in regulation is sider the bill. The government is anxious to appropriate in this case. It is envisaged that develop improved proceeds of crime legisla- the regulations will provide considerable tion but recognises that legislation of this detail on the wrist X-ray procedure, includ- nature needs to be comprehensive and bal- ing reference to appropriate medical stan- anced and requires very careful considera- dards and required safeguards. They will not tion. The government proposes to introduce just deal with the operation of an X-ray ma- some legislation soon which will enable a chine; the regulations would be drafted in full debate of the issues. consultation with the Minister for Health and The proposed government amendments I Aged Care. This will ensure that a new have just outlined respond positively to the medical device would be prescribed only if it recommendations of the Senate committee were approved by the Therapeutic Goods and its report on the bill. The bill is very Administration. The Therapeutic Goods much part of the government’s commitment Administration is conservative about matters to ensuring that juveniles are afforded the of this nature. If a new procedure is consid- appropriate statutory safeguards throughout ered too invasive, the parliament will have the entire investigative process. I commend an opportunity to reject the prescription of the bill and the amendments to the House. such a procedure. Regulations are subject to review by the Senate Standing Committee on Question resolved in the affirmative. Regulations and Ordinances and are disal- Bill read a second time. lowable instruments. This ensures an ade- Consideration in Detail quate opportunity for scrutiny of new proce- Bill—by leave—taken as a whole. dures. Mr WILLIAMS (Tangney—Attorney- There were two matters raised in the de- General) (8.22 p.m.)—by leave—I present a bate to which I wish to make reference. The supplementary explanatory memorandum to member for Denison commended Sena- the bill. I move government amendments tor Jim McKiernan in his chairing of the Nos 1 to 7 together: Senate Legal and Constitutional Legislation Committee. While I can echo the member for (1) Schedule 1, item 1, page 4 (line 10), omit Denison’s acknowledgment of the diligent “may”, substitute “must”. work of the Senate Legal and Constitutional (2) Schedule 1, item 1, page 5 (line 27), before Legislation Committee, I would clarify one “adult”, insert “independent”. point—namely, that the commendations of (3) Schedule 1, item 1, page 6 (line 1), after the member for Denison should recognise “purpose”, insert “and reasons”. not Senator Jim McKiernan as the chair of (4) Schedule 1, item 1, page 6 (after line 10), the committee but Senator Marise Payne as after paragraph (e), insert: the chair. No doubt Senator McKiernan as (ea) that the persons giving the requisite the deputy chair is also worthy of recognition consent may withdraw that consent for his contribution to the committee’s work. at any time; and However, I think it is appropriate to correct (5) Schedule 1, item 1, page 6 (after line 14), at the record and ensure Senator Payne receives the end of subsection (2), add: Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26189

; and (h) that the person on whom the proce- The third amendment, in response to the dure is to be carried out may have, committee’s recommendation 4, ensures that so far as is reasonably practicable, a an investigating official must inform each of person of his or her choice present the persons from whom consent to a pre- while the procedure is carried out. scribed procedure has been sought of the (6) Schedule 1, item 1, page 6 (after line 14), reasons as well as the purpose for which the after subsection (2), insert: prescribed procedure is to be carried out. The (3) The requisite consents may be given: fourth amendment, in response to the com- (a) in person; or mittee’s recommendation 5, obliges an in- (b) by telephone, telex, fax or other vestigating official to inform each of the per- electronic means. sons from whom consent to a prescribed pro- (4) Nothing in this section affects the cedure is being sought that they may with- rights of a person under Part 1C, in draw consent at any time. Although the abil- particular a person’s rights under: ity to withdraw at any time is implicit in the (a) section 23G (Right to communicate nature of the consent, it is considered prefer- with friend, relative and legal prac- able to expressly state this in the bill. titioner); or As I have previously mentioned, the gov- (b) section 23P (Right of foreign na- ernment accepts the second point of the tional to communicate with consular committee’s first recommendation. Amend- office). ment (5) responds to that recommendation (7) Schedule 1, item 1, page 8 (lines 7 to 9), by allowing the person on whom the proce- omit section 3ZQH, substitute: dure is to be carried out to have, as far as is 3ZQH Appropriate medical or other reasonably practicable, a person of his or her standards to be applied choice present while the procedure is carried A prescribed procedure must be carried out. Proposed new subsection 3ZQC(3) is an out in a manner consistent with either amendment which builds on protection en- or both of the following: visaged in the government’s second amend- (a) appropriate medical standards; ment which gives effect to recommendation (b) appropriate other relevant profes- 2 of the Senate committee. Amendment (6) sional standards. merely clarifies that those persons required to give consent before a prescribed proce- The explanatory memorandum which I have dure can be carried out can do so in person just tabled was circulated in the chamber on or by telephone or other electronic means. 7 March this year. The amendments I have This will facilitate investigating officials just moved respond to recommendations obtaining consent from an independent adult made by the Senate Legal and Constitutional person should this be required. It is antici- Legislation Committee, as I have outlined in pated that wherever possible the consent of summing up the second reading debate. The an independent adult person will be obtained first amendment ensures that, if particular in person. However, there may be situations equipment is to be operated to determine a where a suspect is apprehended in remote person’s age, that equipment must, as op- northern Australia, for example, where it posed to ‘may’, be operated by an appropri- may not be possible to obtain independent ately qualified person. This amendment re- consent in person. The amendment is con- sponds to recommendation 6 of the commit- sistent with proposed subsection 3ZQB(2), tee. I have already mentioned that the gov- which allows an investigating official to also ernment will accept recommendation 2 of the apply to a magistrate for an order authorising committee. The second amendment responds the carrying out of a prescribed procedure in to recommendation 2 by inserting ‘independ- person or by telephone or other electronic ent’ before ‘adult person’ in proposed sub- means. paragraph 3ZQC(1)(b)(ii) to reinforce that the adult person must be independent. As foreshadowed, proposed new subsec- tion 3ZQC(4) responds to the committee’s 26190 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 first point in recommendation 1. The That all words after “That” be omitted with a amendment protects the rights of a person view to substituting the following words: under part IC of the Crimes Act 1914, which “the House confers statutory safeguards on persons in condemns the Government for introducing a the context of Commonwealth investigations. bill which is: The same safeguards would apply in the (a) discriminatory and socially divisive; early investigative stages when a prescribed (b) a completely inadequate response to procedure to determine age may well be car- the complex ethical, social and eco- ried out. However, it is considered important nomic issues involved in the devel- to expressly acknowledge that these safe- opment and use of assisted repro- guards are not affected by the measures ductive technologies; and contained in this bill. The right of a suspect (c) totally ignores other areas involving to communicate with a friend, relative or the care and upbringing of children legal practitioner, to which section 23C of where similar issues and principles the Crimes Act refers, is particularly impor- are raised; and tant. In the context of foreign nationals ap- calls on the Government to implement the prehended as suspects for a Commonwealth strong and unanimous recommendations of the offence, the right to communicate with their Australian Health Ethics Committee of the relevant consular office in Australia is also National Health and Medical Research Council an important safeguard, and I refer to section to establish a national framework to regulate 23P of the Crimes Act 1914. the provision and development of assisted re- productive technology (ART) services which The seventh amendment makes it clear should include: that the prescribed procedure must be carried (a) mechanisms to evaluate, assess and out in compliance with either or both of the prioritise the provision of ART appropriate medical standards and other services, including providing neces- relevant professional standards. The regula- sary criteria to protect, as a primary tions prescribed under proposed subsection consideration, the interests of chil- 3ZQA(2) will describe the appropriate medi- dren who may be born from the use cal or other professional standards. For ex- of ART as well as the interests of ample, for the purposes of the wrist X-ray donors and those persons seeking to procedure the relevant medical standards are use ART; likely to be those developed by the Royal (b) measures to ensure that any child Australian and New Zealand College of Ra- born as a result of the use of ART is diologists. This amendment responds to rec- able to identify and locate his or her ommendation 7 made by the Senate Legal biological parents; and Constitutional Legislation Committee. (c) adequate facilities and resources for medical practitioners to obtain ex- Amendments agreed to. pert advice and guidance on the Bill, as amended, agreed to. complex ethical, social and eco- Third Reading nomic issues involved in the use of ART; and Bill (on motion by Mr Williams)—by (d) procedures to monitor and review leave—read a third time. the use of ART to ensure that the SEX DISCRIMINATION AMENDMENT benefits of ART to participants are BILL (No. 1) 2000 balanced with the interests of society Second Reading as a whole” Debate resumed from 29 March, on mo- Mr LINDSAY (Herbert) (8.29 p.m.)— tion by Mr Williams: When I was last speaking on the Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill (No. 1) That the bill be now read a second time. 2000, I was making the point that this issue upon which Mr McClelland moved by is not a gay rights issue; it is a ‘rights of the way of amendment: child’ issue, in my view. Of course, the Commonwealth cannot expect to dictate that Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26191 cannot expect to dictate that every child will not possible, but I cannot condone the use of IVF be raised by both a mother and a father for- to satisfy the desires of lesbian couples and single ever, and we would never presume to do so. women to become mothers. But we can and must do our best to try to The Calvary Assembly of God wrote: protect the interests of children and families We at Calvary thank you for your support of the by ensuring that they have the opportunity of Prime Minister in his stand against the provision having both a mum and a dad from the time of IVF to single and lesbian women. Please ac- of conception. To adopt the view that we cept our endorsement of your stand and pass a should do nothing because there are no guar- copy to the Prime Minister, Mr John Howard. antees is simply a cop-out. This is in no way to suggest our antipathy or in- Children are not commodities. As a soci- tolerance of people engaged in these lifestyles. ety, we have a common responsibility to- However, we may feel justified in taking an op- posing stance to their practices, based on a clear wards all citizens of our country, including understanding of the Bible, the Declaration of the unborn. It is my understanding and belief God. that the IVF program was designed to assist Calvary employs 65 full-time staff on site and in women, married and/or living with a male the course of a normal week we deal with over partner, who have difficulties in conceiving 1000 people including children, teens, street kids’ children—you know, couples that are families, and the elderly. strongly and definitely committed to having We have provided counselling, pastoral care, a family. Indeed, the debate over who should family support for over 50 years and believe we be able to access IVF has sparked great have earned the privilege to stand up for what we moral and ethical arguments. On the one perceive to be proven Godly principles and fam- hand, you have some members of the gay ily values. and lesbian and women’s rights lobby groups I thank Senior Pastor Tony Hallo, chairman jumping up and down claiming discrimina- of the council of the Calvary Assembly of tion if they are to be excluded from gaining God in Townsville, for that letter. I have also access to IVF. This, however, has been met received petitions from literally hundreds of with very great concern from broad sections people backing the government’s stand and of my electorate in Townsville and Thurin- what is in this legislation. gowa. A typical example of some of the cor- respondence that I have received is this letter The IVF debate has been sensibly bal- anced by the churches, especially in relation from Mr and Mrs Naylor of Gulliver. It says: to the moral argument over whether children We commend your decision to publicly declare should be reared outside of marriage or a de your opposition to lesbian and single women be- facto relationship between a man and a ing given access to IVF treatment. We sincerely trust the public will take heed of your comments. woman. I would like to quote Reverend We further trust that opinions to the contrary George Ball, from the Presbyterian Church which have been expressed will not deter mem- of Eastern Australia, from a letter dated bers of parliament from passing appropriate leg- August 2000, in which he makes the fol- islation which the Prime Minister has foreshad- lowing points taken from the Bible: owed to ensure that bans against lesbian and sin- Since God created man, ‘male and female’ sexu- gle women can be enforced. ality is an integral part of our nature. Sexual rela- Mrs Margaret Hooper of Cranbrook wrote: tions within marriage are affirmed as positive and I am writing to ask you to vote for the proposed good. (Heb. 114) ... The perversion of sex, such legislation to amend the Sexual Discrimination as homosexuality and lesbianism, is unnatural and Act which will nullify the recent Federal Court is condemned by the Word of God. (Rom. 1: 26, ruling which allows lesbian and single women 27) access to the IVF programs in the states. Under It is the duty of the State to create the conditions this ruling, the rights of the child were completely necessary for stable society. This will include ignored, and I believe that children need the af- promoting and encouraging family life. This fection and care of both a mother and a father. I should be reflected in its various laws affecting acknowledge that there are occasions when this is the family. (Rom. 13: 1-7) 26192 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

The reinforcement of the government’s con- Discrimination Amendment Bill (No. 1) cern about IVF being used and abused is 2000 by making a brief reference to a couple clear. Reverend Ball concludes: of the comments that the previous speaker The practice of using sperm from a donor should has made. While I respect his religious views be rejected as contrary to the laws of God. and those of his constituents, I do think that This is no less than ‘artificial adultery’. It imports one of the most fundamental principles that a third person into the marriage relationship. As underpins our democracy is that of the sepa- well, there could be serious psychological effects ration of church and state. Whatever argu- on the child of such a union. ments we may mount have to be based on the I ask this: what would our society be coming arguments themselves, not on whether or not to if we did not adhere to these principles? I they support a particular religious frame- also received letters of support from many work. I make that point by way of observa- other members of the community—for ex- tion, not criticism. ample, from the small community of Bowen, Unfortunately in this legislation, however, which is south of Townsville. It is welcome we are seeing an attempt by the Prime Min- to receive that kind of support. ister and the government to divide the nation I am foreshadowing that the government on a very important issue. I think in doing so will be moving amendments, which were the government has underestimated the Aus- considered by the Senate Legal and Consti- tralian people. While the previous speaker tutional Affairs Committee in their consid- might point to various letters he has had eration of the bill, to the Sex Discrimination from people urging him to support the legis- Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2000 at the conclu- lation, there have been a great many people sion of this debate. These amendments will writing to us, sending emails and letters from address concerns that the bill would allow all sections of the community, not just those states and territories to prevent access to directly affected by this legislation. I guess ART by de facto couples. The proposed gov- what that points to is that this is a very divi- ernment amendments will ensure that the bill sive tactic, one that we have seen in other does not permit state and territory laws to areas. Since this government came to power, discriminate, or to permit discrimination, there have been several such attempts to di- against de facto couples with respect to ART vide Australians from one another: Aborigi- services. The proposed section 221(1A) of nal versus non-Aboriginal people, those with the bill as amended will ensure that the Sex a job versus those without and employers Discrimination Act will not prevent state and versus employees. I do not think it is helpful territory laws from limiting access to ART to conduct debate in this community in that services to married and de facto couples. In way. In this attempt the Prime Minister relation to married couples, it will also en- seems determined that those women who are able the states and territories to limit access unable to conceive naturally shall remain the to ART, as Victoria currently does, to those have-nots, despite their willingness to un- who are living together on a genuine domes- dergo difficult technical procedures at sig- tic basis. nificant cost, both financial and emotional. That is basically because apparently his idea I commend and support this bill because it of the ideal family is not the same as theirs is my strong belief that a child ought to have is. I have to say that the Prime Minister’s the right to be brought up in a family based approach to this issue strikes me as dimin- upon the marriage of a man and a woman. ished. Boys and girls need a loving mother and a loving father. I urge the opposition to stand In considering amendments to the Sex up in the interests of children in Australia Discrimination Act, I think it is very impor- and to support this bill. tant for us to recall why this legislation was first passed through this House—I might say, Dr LAWRENCE (Fremantle) (8.37 with the support of the Prime Minister. As p.m.)—I might begin my address on the Sex Australians were told at the time the legisla- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26193 tion was passed, the fundamental principle of to the rights of those people who do not con- the bill was to outlaw: form to the majority views of values. It is ... discrimination based on sex, marital status and about the rights of all Australians, regardless pregnancy and discrimination involving sexual of their numerical strength. It may be that in harassment ... and that in public life—work, edu- some of these groups there is only one per- cation, accommodation, the provision of goods, son, but they still have certain inalienable facilities and services, the disposal of land and the rights. The right to live free from discrimi- administration of Commonwealth laws and pro- nation and the right to enjoy the benefits of grams—any such discrimination should be un- our community regardless of one’s sex or lawful and there should be a means of redressing marital status or race or religion are amongst discrimination where it occurs. these rights. One of Australia’s proudest tra- There are no exceptions given in that; they ditions is the belief that we are all equal. For are all very clearly laid down. The Prime the Prime Minister to attempt to qualify Minister speaks of amending the Sex Dis- those rights, especially in what looked like a crimination Act as though supporting those political stunt, is an indictment of the gov- rights were never part of the original act for ernment and a retreat to standards that I think which he voted. But, as he said to the par- all Australians have come to expect only liament at the time: from rogue states, not from their own coun- There is no doubt that amongst the less privileged try. It really is a dismal outcome for all Aus- in our community, amongst ethnic groups, there tralians. In my view, this legislation shows are incidences of discrimination and disadvantage all Australians how past his use-by date this against women which are not present within some Prime Minister has become. Why is he of the more conservative or Anglo-Saxon ele- thinking like this? In 1984 he was prepared ments of our society. I think the bill will be of value in respect of that, and I welcome the effect to support such legislation and now he wants it will have. to repeal it in part. That was said on 7 March 1984. As the For most young Australian women and Prime Minister knew in 1984 but does not men particularly, the notion that it may once seem to know now, the Sex Discrimination again be legal to discriminate on the grounds Act was developed exactly to prevent the of marital status is entirely foreign. You only kind of ‘majority rules’ outcomes apparently need to talk to them for five minutes for espoused by the Prime Minister today. them to be puzzled by this move on the part of the government. For nearly 17 years since Our system is a proudly democratic one, the bill was passed, it has been an illegal and the support of the majority of citizens is question to ask in a job interview. If evidence required to form a government. But in Aus- is presented that any opportunity has been tralia, as in many other democracies, the denied on the basis of marital status, then power of the majority has always been tem- action can be taken and redress sought. That pered by respect for the rights of others, par- is what we have been doing for 17 years. ticularly those in minorities—hence the Sex This is, of course, appropriate and just. But it Discrimination Act. The rights protected by appears that this government is uncomfort- the Sex Discrimination Act are examples of able with that notion, with the belief that such rights. They are not about simple ma- discrimination on the basis of sex or marital joritarian outcomes. We do not say, ‘Simply status is wrong. They want to move to water because the majority wants it to be so, it it down. should be so.’ We recognise that this very simplistic notion of democracy would indeed The Australian Labor Party entertains no be tyranny. This legislation and other laws such qualifications. We believe that all Aus- designed to ensure the protection of all Aus- tralians are equal and the right to be free tralians are about ensuring that, while gov- from discrimination on the basis of sex or ernments are elected democratically by a marital status is a fundamental, universally majority of voters, they should also pay heed recognised human right. I suppose in some ways it is not surprising that the government 26194 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 is moving in this area because in the five which was explicitly stated at the time of its years it has been in government it has not introduction. As Senator Ryan told the Sen- had a very good record on human rights. For ate in her second reading speech introducing example, the decision to withdraw from the the Sex Discrimination Bill in 1983: United Nations committee process, thereby The need for such a law is now widely under- removing us from the scrutiny of the world stood and accepted. Throughout Australia women when it comes to our own behaviour, is one experience discrimination on the basis of their sex which tarnishes Australia’s human rights and their marital status. In three States there are record; indeed, our record as good interna- avenues for redress of infringements of women’s tional citizens. The decision to remove Aus- rights. In other States and in the range of areas tralia from the processes of the UN comes at which are the responsibility of the Common- a particularly difficult time for the women of wealth there is no remedy. The result is economic and social disadvantage and a significant im- Australia. It means that Australia will not pediment to the exercise by Australians of fun- sign the optional protocol to the Convention damental rights and freedoms. on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimi- nation against Women, although various The government is seeking to create such a ministers have said that they might under circumstance again. The government at that other circumstances—not now, apparently, time took responsibility for the rights of all despite the fact that Australia has been in- Australians, regardless of where they lived, volved in drawing them up. What is implied while unfortunately this government is trying in that rejection is that the removal of such to turn the clock back and avoid its responsi- discrimination is, at least for this govern- bilities. What is a federal government for if it ment, not an issue. We disagree, and we dis- is not to ensure that the rights of some Aus- tralians are not privileged over the rights of agree strongly. others? It is clear, despite what has been said by some speakers, that this legislation will not I now turn to a slightly different argument even clarify the conditions under which against the amendment which is that, as well women can gain access to IVF services. It as being discriminatory, the government’s does not even assist on that point. The previ- legislation is also bad law. This problem was ous speaker thought it might, but it does not. identified by the Senate inquiry into the leg- It will in fact create the kind of legislative islation which was conducted by the Senate complexity that Australian Federation was, Legal and Constitutional Committee chaired in many ways, designed to overcome but that by Liberal Senator Marise Payne. I pay trib- still dogs us, I would have to say. There are ute to Senator Payne, a brave woman who now, and there will be after this legislation, came out against her party’s interests in this many different scenarios across Australia for respect. The majority report from the com- single Australian women seeking IVF sup- mittee, after four public hearings and evi- dence from 55 witnesses expressing a wide port. range of views, concluded: If this legislation is passed in the federal The Committee has concerns as to whether the parliament, women in each state and territory Bill, as drafted with amendments, is the necessary will face different sets of criteria for access or appropriate response to achieve the stated aims to assisted reproductive services, making the of the Bill. whole process more cumbersome and more In other words, it does not even do what it expensive but, importantly, no safer and no claims to do. Further, they went on to say: more consistent. If the Prime Minister’s highest priority were to ensure rights for all The Committee is concerned that the Bill is un- Australians, surely this kind of inconsistency able to achieve its objective, as stated by the Prime Minister and the Attorney-General, of fa- would have been addressed. In attempting to cilitating the right of a child to the ‘reasonable move responsibility for access to IVF treat- expectation, other things being equal, of the care ment to the states, this government undoes and affection of both a mother and a father.’ yet another important objective of the act, Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26195

That is the expectation the previous speaker be considered in the UK’s code of practice— spoke of. The bill does not do that. The again, with the aim of protecting the best committee indeed even noted: interests of children—is in section 3.16, In fact, departmental officers have acknowledged where it says: this fact in conceding that the Bill can only apply People seeking treatment are entitled to a fair and to the moment of conception and has no effect on unprejudiced assessment of their situation and any subsequent action of the parents of a child. needs, which should be conducted with the skill Further: and sensitivity appropriate to the delicacy of the case and the wishes and feelings of those in- Insofar as the Bill appears to have an unstated volved. objective, of allowing State and Territory law to be exempt from the consideration of the courts, I wish that had been a sentiment of people the Committee is concerned that it is not the ap- drafting this legislation. It goes on to say in propriate method of achieving this objective. section 3.17: So the senators who spent considerable time Where people seek licensed treatment, centres and energy examining this legislation found should bear in mind the following factors— that, even if all of us agreed that it is the only and all of these are important to the welfare way to achieve happy families as part of a of the child— nuclear, heterosexual family unit, this bill a. their commitment to having and bringing up a could not achieve that outcome. Of course, I child or children; hasten to add the government’s view of the b. their ability to provide a stable and supportive ideal family is not the only one supported by environment for any child produced as a result of the Australian community in whole or in treatment; part. But, even so, successfully legislating c. their medical histories and the medical histo- for happy families, I think, is highly improb- ries of their families; able. If we could do it, I am sure we would. d. their ages and likely future ability to look after As Senator Payne’s committee concluded: or provide for a child’s needs— Irrespective of whether it agreed that the best Do you see the focus? It is actually all on the interests of a child were served by having the reasonable expectation of the care and affection child’s needs, not on discriminatory treat- of a mother and a father, the Committee con- ment of the parents. It continues: cluded that the proposed amendments did nothing e. their ability to meet the needs of any child or of themselves to ensure such an outcome because children who may be born as a result of treatment, they were so remote from it. Many submissions including the implications of any possible multi- and witnesses at public hearings reached a similar ple births; conclusion. f. any risk of harm to the child or children who If the government had really been inclined to may be born, including the risk of inherited dis- that course of action, then they probably orders, problems during pregnancy and of neglect should have studied work that has been done or abuse— in the United Kingdom. The United King- These are all tangible, known precursors in dom government, through its UK Human terms of the child’s needs. It concludes: Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, has g. the effect of a new baby or babies upon any developed a code of practice which has leg- existing child of the family. islative force. This actually does provide The next section looks at some other factors: criteria for the treatment of clients and do- nors to ensure that the best interests of the Where people seek treatment using donated gam- etes, centres should also take the following fac- child are protected. It is a practical, workable tors into account— document with the force of law. I will quote from this document for a few moments, be- In other words, when you move a step for- cause I think it shows what we should be ward, there are some other issues which you doing in this case; it gives an example from a have to take up, and it describes them as: comparable democracy. One of the factors to a. a child’s potential need to know about their origins and whether or not the prospective parents 26196 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 are prepared for the questions which may arise The Senate inquiry found additional diffi- while the child is growing up; culty with the government’s proposed Again, it is in stark contrast to this legisla- amendments. Indeed, the committee ac- tion. It talks about: knowledged that: b. the possible attitudes of other members of the ... the amendments may have an indirect impact family towards the child, and towards their status on a wide range of issues such as adoption, surro- in the family; gacy and the right of children to knowledge about c. the implications for the welfare of the child if their biological parents, all of which were raised the donor is personally known within the child’s during the course of this inquiry. family and social circle— Despite the fact that it has taken so long to These are practical problems likely to be draft this legislation, there are still significant confronted by parents. It continues: problems, and I understand that there are to be further amendments. The committee con- d. any possibility known to the centre of a dispute about the legal fatherhood of the child— curred also that the amendments would erode existing rights and undermine Australia’s Again, they are critical questions not referred human rights system. I quote again: to in this legislation. They go on to talk about other matters including where the child The Committee believes that this is the first such limitation contemplated since the inception of the has no legal father. They are not blind to the Act in 1984. problems associated with that, but they deal with them with sensitivity and in a non- This is not a good first. This is one occasion discriminatory fashion. It is very important where we would rather it did not happen at for us to remember that there are a great all. The committee continued: many parents in our community who are The Committee is persuaded that its passage into looking after children either alone, in homo- law would erode existing rights. sexual relationships or in all sorts of other This is a majority committee report—a arrangements where love and care are criti- cross-party committee report. It would also, cal—and exercised. they say: Like the member for Herbert who spoke ... establish a precedent for future attacks on the before me, I have had letters from various rights enshrined in the Act. people concerned about this bill, including That is a very worrying precedent. The one from a couple—two women—who are committee continues: parents to a 21-month-old girl. They said to By creating exceptions to basic guarantees this me: Bill would introduce uncertainty into our human It seems obvious to me that what children need is rights guarantees and undermine public confi- to be loved, wanted and cared for. dence in the system of human rights protections That really should not be a revelation, but it provided by the Commonwealth. appears that we have to say it. They go on to An uncertainty they point to—the first but say: not the last. Thus the committee found that There are not too many people who thought this legislation is, in summary, introducing harder about whether they actually want to be discrimination into our anti-discrimination parents and whether they can meet the needs of legislation, backtracking on our international the child than women seeking assisted reproduc- obligations, and undermining our commit- tive services. Let me assure you, these women ment to equality under the law. have thought long and hard about their ability to In conclusion, to the women of Australia be parents and whether they have the financial this treatment is not such a surprise. This is, and emotional resources to be able to take on this task. after all, the same government which has cut child-care support, slashed health and edu- I know there are other parents who feel the cation funding, ended government support same. for women’s community organisations and Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26197 put a tax on sanitary products and baby against another was not favoured, and that products. one group against another was not shown Mr Cadman—Rubbish! positive or negative discrimination. For members of the Australian Labor Party to Dr LAWRENCE—It is not rubbish— say that this is a discriminatory approach, is look at your own record. This is a far from the truth. In fact, the government is government which has seen a widening of seeking to ensure the non-discriminatory the gender gap on women’s and men’s wages nature of the act. The legislation that we are and has overseen a proliferation of work in discussing was spoken about by the Attor- family-unfriendly hours. This is the same ney-General when he introduced these government. It is consistent. So perhaps amendments. In his second reading speech— Australian women should not be, and he was speaking about the McBain v. The certainly are not, surprised at the latest State of Victoria decision in the Federal moves against them from the Liberal- Court—he said: National government. They may not be surprised, but they are certainly In that case the court held that Victorian legisla- disappointed. tion restricting access to assisted reproductive technology (ART) treatment to women who were Let us face it—this legislation is not about married and living with their husband on a genu- improving the lives of those children who are ine domestic basis, or living with a man in a de born as a result of assisted reproductive facto relationship was inconsistent with the technologies. That is not its goal and it does Commonwealth Sex Discrimination Act, and as a not achieve it. This legislation is designed to consequence was invalid under section 109 of the make it legal to discriminate on grounds of Constitution. marital status, and thus allow access to a It is the government’s view— health service on a discriminatory basis. This continues the Attorney-General, Mr Wil- parliament decided long ago that such dis- liams— crimination was a violation of fundamental that it was not contemplated that the Sex Dis- human rights, and we should never under- crimination Act would prevent the states legis- mine that decision. lating to restrict access to ART procedures to Mr CADMAN (Mitchell) (8.56 p.m.)—I women who are married or living in de facto re- was fascinated by the previous speaker’s lationships. comments about the legislation that we are The Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill (No. 1) discussing tonight—the Sex Discrimination 2000 will amend the Sex Discrimination Act to Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2000—because, in allow the states and territories to legislate to per- fact, Senator Susan Ryan, when she intro- mit restrictions to be imposed on access to any form of ART services on the basis of marital duced this legislation, spoke about discrimi- status. natory factors and how they were related in the legislation that we are discussing. In the That is what the Attorney-General said. bill, we are discussing the ability to not dis- The Prime Minister, in making a statement criminate. Susan Ryan said in her second on these matters—and he repeats much of reading speech in the Senate: that same argument—on 1 August 2000 said: ... the matters that I think are of genuine concern In considering the matter, Cabinet had before it to Senator Harradine— advice from both the Solicitor-General and the She picks out Harradine— Chief General Counsel. Both were of the view that the decision of the Federal Court in the such as abortion and sterilisation, are already McBain case represented a correct interpretation excluded from the operation of the Bill by virtue of the law and that, as a consequence, the chances of being services which can be rendered to one of an appeal succeeding were quite remote. sex only. This issue primarily involves the fundamental Therefore, when the legislation was intro- right of a child within our society to have the duced, the intention of the government at the reasonable expectation, other things being equal, time, and the intention of the Senate at the time, was to make sure that one group 26198 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 of the care and affection of both a mother and a commitment by families. In fact, the success father. rate is about 11 or 12 per cent. So, for every These are basic covenants under interna- 100 couples who approach an IVF program, tional agreements, the basic rights of a child there is an 11 or 12 per cent chance of suc- to have the care and affection of both a cess. mother and a father, rights which seem to be It is the government’s belief that the re- denied by speakers from the opposition to- ports of various committees and bureaus of night. They want to up-end the logic and the the parliament and of the Australian gov- processes of discrimination and also of inter- ernment indicate that the most likely form of national treaties seeking to protect the rights successful growth and development for a and opportunities of children. The Prime child is in a family where there is a husband Minister, in that statement of 1 August last and wife committed to each other for life. year, goes on: These are statistical facts. That it is not al- This motivation no doubt lay behind the Victorian ways possible for families to stay together or legislation. to be successful is regrettable but it is a fact. That is, of having—by implication, I would Whilst it would be extremely difficult for think—the equal care and affection of both parliament to legislate for happy families, I mother and father. believe it is possible for us to legislate It is the Government’s view that the Sex Dis- against unhappy families. We ought to be crimination Act was never intended to prevent making decisions to prevent those circum- States legislating to restrict IVF procedures to stances where children are going to have less married women or those women living with a chance or less opportunity. That is the role of man in a defacto relationship. the parliament. We cannot predict what is Some States of Australia have legislation to this best for somebody or how they should man- effect. Others do not. age their lives or whether there is a likeli- The Commonwealth does not have constitutional hood of divorce or a likelihood of death or power to directly legislate in relation to the avail- breakdown—of course, it would be ridicu- ability of IVF procedures. lous to be prescriptive to that extent. If Parliament approves the Government’s pro- I know that Mr Deputy Speaker will un- posed amendment then it will be open to other derstand that the parliament is not about States, if they choose, to enact legislation similar making those sorts of prescriptive decisions to the Victorian legislation. but I believe the parliament has an absolute It would be my view that the proposals be- responsibility to maximise the opportunities fore the House start to restore a reasonable for children, to exclude the chance of dam- balance in the relationships of children in age being done and of any risk to children. It families. John Anderson, the Deputy Prime is a fact indicated by the Institute of Family Minister, says that the changes to the Sex Studies that there is a 15 to one more likely Discrimination Act are positive for families. chance of children being abused or hurt in a He also says: de facto relationship than there is in a rela- It is my view that the IVF program was designed tionship where mum and dad are married. It to assist women married and/or living with a male is a statistical fact. Where it is possible, I partner who have difficulties with conceiving believe it is the role of this parliament to en- children. Couples who strongly and definitely sure a commitment of parents to their chil- want to have a family. dren. This parliament should understand the That is the purpose of the IVF program. One yearning that some couples have to have has only to look at the statistics relating to children—even same-sex couples, but they the success, and at the number of cycles that have, by lifestyle decisions, chosen a life- couples have to go through in the IVF pro- style where that is not possible. gram, to understand the pain and difficulty of If we look at the needs of children, and the treatment. The cost of it is part of it, yes, focus only on the children instead of the in- for sure, but it is also a program of extended Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26199 clinations and wishes of the parents, we must lieve that the decision in the case that has come to the conclusion that the best opportu- been the cause of these changes to, and the nity for children to be nurtured and raised, need for, this legislation should be tested by with opportunities for success opening up to appeal to the High Court. It is a constitu- them, is where there is a husband and wife, a tional matter that only the High Court can father and mother. Some of the complexities determine. The role of the Federal Court in that are raised by the proposals that have these matters, to my view, has been suspect arisen from the Sundberg decision are quite at times, to say the least. amazing, such as the proposal that same-sex If one turns to the proposals that we are couples or single women can have access to considering and the examination that was IVF treatment or to assisted reproductive made by the Senate committee dealing with technology, as it is called. There is the pros- these issues, one would have to come to the pect of a child growing up without any conclusion that Mr Justice Sundberg was knowledge of who its parents are, of having wrong in his decision and that the approval relationships and contact with people who of the concept that children can deliberately are indeed its natural parents but all the time be deprived of their rights to be in contact thinking that the person that nurtured it and with and cared for by both parents, and in brought it up was indeed its mother. some cases deprived of the knowledge of the I think the complexities of these arrange- identity of their biological father, creates ments and the risks that society would run by great mischief, in my view. Effectively deni- following the decisions of the Federal Court grating the status of marriage is part of the are incalculable. I have the view that the process and I do not think that that is a posi- court was in error and I believe that that de- tive thing. Sure, we cannot legislate, as I cision ought to be challenged. I know what have said, for a happy family but we can the Attorney-General says and I know what legislate to prevent unhappy families. the Prime Minister says. I believe that this I believe that the founding of a formal parliament ought to hold its fire on this deci- right of a single woman or a same-sex couple sion until we know and are sure what the to demand a child through this process is part High Court of Australia says. I understand of what Mr Justice Sundberg proposed in his that there is a case on foot. I hope that case decision. I believe the decision of the Federal goes before and is properly heard and ex- Court is questionable. It also has implica- plored by the High Court of Australia, be- tions for other Australian states, not just for cause I do not believe that it is within the the state of Victoria, where the decision was scope of the Sex Discrimination Act for it to made, but for the state of South Australia, be used in the way in which the Federal which has restrictive legislation for the use Court says it could be used. I do not believe of assisted reproductive technology, and for that that was the proposal put by Senator Western Australia. I believe in my own state Susan Ryan so long ago in the Senate. The of New South Wales we should see a clear purpose of the Sex Discrimination Act was case for the opening up of more positive at- not to favour small groups of one sex or an- titudes about the way in which these proc- other; it was in fact to make sure that there esses can be used. Regrettably, that has not was no discrimination between men and been the case to date. women. It was set up for that purpose. It was set up so that women would not be discrimi- The Victorian government has accepted nated against as compared with males and legal advice that nothing in Mr Justice Sund- the aim was not for it to be used to favour berg’s ruling excluded the requirement for one small group of either gender. IVF treatment recipients to be medically in- fertile. The legal advice considers that all The future for this Sex Discrimination that needs to be done to avoid breaching the Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2000 is, I believe, Sex Discrimination Act is to remove the ref- uncertain because of the testing by the High erence in the medical need criterion to the Court of that Federal Court decision. I be- 26200 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 husband’s sperm; thus single or lesbian Australians experienced this in 1988 when women will be able to obtain IVF treatment he said of Asian immigration: only if they can demonstrate that they are In the eyes of some of the community it’s too infertile or at risk of genetic abnormality or great, it would be in our immediate-term interest, disease. The implications of the decision and supportive of social cohesion if it were have not yet been fully considered by the slowed a little so that the capacity of the commu- Australian community but they were raised nity to absorb was greater. for part consideration in the Senate commit- Again, in 1996, Australians were subjected tee. to Mr Howard’s divisive policies when it Some other matters that have come to my took him 35 days to comment on Pauline attention include the prospect of a generation Hanson’s racist views against migrants and of young people having no inheritance or Aboriginal people. Even then his repudiation prospect of linking with past generations or was qualified when, in one radio interview, of having something of value and tradition to he claimed: carry forward. Almost a lost generation or a Some of the things said were an accurate reflec- stolen generation of children could be tion of what people feel. brought into being by this process. I have Aboriginal Australians were again a target of read with interest a recent report that an his divisive public statements when, in the Italian doctor intends to set out to fully clone wake of the Wik judgment, the Prime Min- a human being, something that is rejected by ister appeared on the ABC’s 7.30 Report— the rest of the world, mostly by legislation— and I am sure many people will remember it is by legislation in Australia. That would this—with a map of Australia, with vast ar- be taking this whole process a step further. It eas of land coloured brown. This was fol- is a process that most thinking people would lowed by his refusal to say sorry over the reject. stolen generation and then by his refusal to I side with those who think that we should acknowledge that there was even such a gen- not proceed to recognise the Sundberg deci- eration. The Northern Territory mandatory sion but should press on, have it tested in the sentencing laws are another well from which High Court and, if possible, have it turned he has sourced his divisive politics. Instead over there, and if that is not possible, then to of healing the wounds of the past and bridg- proceed with legislation. I hope this legisla- ing the divide between black and white Aus- tion successfully passes this House and then tralians, as a Prime Minister should, our is held between here and the Senate, pending Prime Minister, John Howard, at every turn a High Court decision. fuels resentment and maximises division— Ms MACKLIN (Jagajaga) (9.13 p.m.)— all for his political purposes. The Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill So it should come as no surprise that last (No. 1) 2000 is designed to divide the year, in his desperation to divert the nation’s country and to promote prejudice. That sums attention away from Labor’s health and edu- up what we are debating here tonight. cation policies, Mr Howard found a new mi- Prejudice and division are Prime Minister nority to attack—single mothers. We know John Howard’s stock-in-trade. He is highly that he was attacking single mothers because, skilled at sowing the seeds of resentment following the Labor Party national confer- among the majority against minorities. His ence, with one breath he would insist that he political career is punctuated with remarks was not but in the next breath he was classi- delivered under the cloak of commonsense fying who were legitimate single mothers which is crafted to fuel maximum division. and who were not. With his dog whistle in The divisions he creates are always at the his hand, which we have seen so many times, expense of the minorities in our community John Howard, at a press conference in Par- and aimed at getting him votes. Make no liament House on 1 August last year, claimed mistake about it; this is politically motivated that the Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill legislation. Asian Australians experienced Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26201

(No. 1) 2000 had nothing to do with single the basis of marital status when providing an parent families: IVF service to be unlawful, but it is the only This has got nothing to do with single parent case that the Howard Government has shown families. an interest in. I think it might have had To suggest for a moment that this is in some way something to do with timing. The Howard an attack on single parent families is ridiculous. government did not introduce legislation to My question to the Prime Minister is: if it is amend the Sex Discrimination Act when the not about single parent families, why did South Australian Supreme Court unani- you, in interview after interview, go on and mously declared, on 10 September 1996, that on about it? In another interview, the Prime the South Australian IVF legislation dis- Minister said: criminated on the ground of marital status and, therefore, was in breach of the Sex Dis- I mean this is not about single mothers. Now let’s crimination Act. Nor did the Howard gov- make this very clear—it’s got no ... the over- ernment introduce legislation to amend the whelming bulk of single mothers do a wonderful job and I admire them and the way they cope in Sex Discrimination Act when the Common- very difficult circumstances ... And of course wealth Human Rights and Equal Opportunity there are loving family environments where de- Commission, in March 1997, considered that serted mothers bring up their children. There are the Victorian IVF legislation was in breach tens of thousands of them and they do a wonder- of the Sex Discrimination Act and was there- ful job. This is not an attack on them. It’s a com- fore discriminatory. pletely separate issue. So why is the Australian parliament only According to Mr Howard, the only legitimate now debating this legislation? One thing is single mums are those who are deserted. If very clear: it is not because the federal gov- women exercise any choice in becoming a ernment is committed to addressing the single parent, they are not to be supported by complex moral, ethical and social issues in- this Howard government. That, of course, is volved in the development and use of this the dog whistle—the bit that goes unsaid— technology. It is not because the federal gov- but the implications are clear. According to ernment wants to put in place measures to John Howard, there is no legitimate place in make sure that any child born as a result of Australian society for single mums who are the use of assisted reproductive technology is not deserted mums. All other single mothers able to identify and locate his or her biologi- and their children are fair game to be used in cal parents—it is certainly not that. It is not a political stunt designed to produce maxi- because the federal government is concerned mum resentment and to divert attention away about the interests of children who may be from Labor’s policies. This dog whistle poli- born from the use of assisted reproductive tics became more explicit on 3 August in an technology, as well as the interests of donors interview with Jeremy Cordeaux on radio and those people seeking to use assisted re- 5DN, in Adelaide. In this interview the productive technology—it is not about that Prime Minister, who was yet again making either. And it is not because the federal gov- an attack on single mothers, said: ernment is committed to implementing the Nor is it an attack in any way on single mothers. strong and unanimous recommendation of The great bulk of course aren’t single mothers by the Australian Health Ethics Committee of choice, are they? the National Health and Medical Research One thing we know for sure is that the Sex Council, nor to developing a national frame- Discrimination Amendment Bill (No. 1) work for regulating assisted reproductive 2000 before the parliament is not the gov- technology. It is none of those things. ernment’s response to McBain v. The State No, this bill does not tackle any of the im- of Victoria; it is the government’s response portant issues that Australians want to see to Labor’s national conference. McBain v. tackled. This bill is about winding back anti- The State of Victoria is in fact the third court discrimination laws—that is all it is about— case since 1996 that found discrimination on that protect us all; it is about winding them 26202 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 back for this Prime Minister’s political stunt. critical. The health minister had the opportu- This legislation allows Australian states to nity to do something constructive to resolve discriminate on the basis of marital status. It the confusion surrounding eligibility for IVF permits different human rights standards to services on 27 July. He had all the state exist in different parts of this country. Do not ministers responsible for administering IVF be misled—under this bill single women will in one room. Assisted reproductive technol- continue to have access to IVF services in ogy was on the agenda and he failed to dis- some states, but just not in other states. The cuss it. Strangely, just three working days bill does not stop single women having chil- later the Howard government announced that dren; it just makes it harder for single infer- it would urgently amend the Sex Discrimi- tile women in some states to have a child nation Act to allow states to discriminate on through IVF. They are still quite free to the basis of marital status. Of course, this travel to a state that provides these services had not been mentioned at the ministers to single women. The laws governing IVF meeting. will still be inadequate and confusing. This This, more than anything, to me exposes bill establishes no national framework for this legislation for what it is—a Howard uniform legislation to govern IVF services— government stunt designed to divide the none. country and create resentment against single The development of national uniform mothers. Once again, this Prime Minister has standards for assisted reproductive technol- resorted to dividing the majority against a ogy has been languishing since 1996, when minority for his own political advantage. the ethics committee of the NHMRC rec- This legislation does not protect the rights of ommended unanimously and strongly that the child—the sanctimonious reason we have that legislation be enacted. Has the govern- heard from the Prime Minister and the health ment done anything about that? No. In fact, minister. Legislation that protected the rights in July last year, just a week before the Prime of the child would address point 3.1.5 of the Minister’s divisive act, the Department of NHMRC ethical guidelines for assisted re- Health and Aged Care prepared a report for productive technology. This point states: the meeting of state and territory health Children born from the use of ART procedures ministers which noted the need for these are entitled to knowledge of their biological par- standards to be developed. Dr Wooldridge’s ents. Any person, and his or her spouse or partner, options paper stated: donating gametes, and consenting to their use in There is a need to ensure consistent standards in an ART procedure where the intention is that a this area of research, clinical practice and related child may be born must, in addition to the infor- social issues such as eligibility requirements, mation specified in this section, be informed that surrogacy and consent for use of gametes and children may receive identifying information embryos to ensure that practitioners and partici- about them. pants do not cross inter-state borders in search of Victoria is the only state that allows IVF services in this field. children access to information about their The heath ministers noted this report on 27 donor parents once the person turns 18. July. At the meeting, the federal Minister for Western Australian and South Australian Health and Aged Care, Dr Wooldridge, ex- legislation denies IVF children this right by pressed no urgency in developing uniform making it illegal for the identity of the donor laws, and he did not push for new laws to to be disclosed. There is no specific legisla- resolve eligibility issues or laws to protect an tion to regulate IVF in NSW and Queen- IVF child’s right to know his or her biologi- sland, and compliance varies between clin- cal parents—none of those things. Instead, ics. he noted the health department’s options pa- There are strong health and emotional per and, I am told, did not even speak on the wellbeing benefits for children that flow issues. I have to say that I find it hard to from ensuring that this information is avail- imagine anything more dishonest and hypo- able. In my view—it is certainly a very Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26203 strong personal view of mine—Australian government to a national register and data- children born as a result of IVF technology base of donors. It does not ensure nationally should have equal rights to know the identity consistent reporting. It does not assist IVF of their biological parents regardless of children to identify their biological parents. which state they were conceived in. Mr It does not implement a consistent screening Howard has done nothing to make sure that program for donor gametes and embryos. that right is created or protected. This legislation is not about protecting the The adoption of this guideline nationally rights of the IVF children. It is about creating would require all donors as part of their par- unequal rights. The Australian Labor Party ticipation in any treatment program to be believes that all Australians are equal before properly counselled and informed of the pos- the law and that the right not to be subject to sibility of later contact. There are specific discrimination on the basis of sex or marital requirements in the state acts and the status is a fundamental human right. It is a NHMRC guidelines for the provision of very sad day for human rights in this country counselling services for those involved in when this principle—a principle that has IVF treatment. However, the absence of a been enshrined in legislation for 16 years—is consistent definition of ‘counselling’ or the sacrificed for a political stunt. qualifications of those providing the service Human rights laws such as the Common- raises the question as to whether services are wealth Sex Discrimination Act are made to being appropriately delivered. We have no protect minorities from the majority’s preju- commitment from this government to na- dices. They often challenge deep-seated and tional IVF protocols for counselling or to the popular prejudices, because that is exactly national accreditation of counsellors. Nor has where discrimination is rooted. The Howard the government made a commitment to de- government, in the pursuit of electoral velop a uniform system of record keeping popularity, has demonstrated that it has no and confidentiality requirements across the concern for the human rights of Australians. states. This is a very important issue. Human rights are there to protect all of us A national database of donors would en- and when the Prime Minister of the day is sure that the reporting data were thorough allowed to pick and choose which Austra- and consistent. It would make sure that lians are worthy of protection all of us proper records were maintained indefinitely should be worried. This Prime Minister and the number of offspring from an individ- knows only division. This Prime Minister ual donor recorded nationally. A national does not govern for all Australians; he gov- register and database could reduce the likeli- erns by exploiting majority resentment hood of accidental incest, where too many against minorities. The only way to make children are born using the sperm of one man sure that all Australians continue to be pro- or using the ova and sperm of one family, tected is to defeat this legislation and send a between the same family members. Western very strong message to this Prime Minister Australian legislation requires that no more that Australia is a tolerant, compassionate than five known families receive gametes country where human rights are not only from one donor. In South Australia, a maxi- protected but freely shared by all Austra- mum of 10 children can be born from the lians. reproductive material of one donor. These Mr LAWLER (Parkes) (9.31 p.m.)—I am issues are relevant at the national level, yet very pleased to speak on the amendments to there are no limits. These limits could be the Sex Discrimination Act. I want to make enforced through a national register. Issues the point at this juncture that of course of accidental incest could be avoided through speakers on the other side will have some the establishment of such a database. fair and reasonable points to make, as will This legislation does nothing to address speakers on this side of the debate, because it any of these issues. It does not commit the is not a simple case of one side being right 26204 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 and one side being wrong. Both sides hold am quite happy to stand up here and state legitimate arguments. that, if I had a role and a voice to play in the I wish to comment on a couple of the state, I would support the position the Victo- more incoherent arguments of the previous rian government took on this case anyway. speaker, the member for Jagajaga. Firstly, But by amending the Sex Discrimination Act she was saying the Minister for Health and 1984 it will ensure that state legislation Aged Care addressed a gathering of the state dealing with the matter will not be overrid- ministers and did not mention the legislation den as we saw in Victoria recently. Remov- that was going to be put before the parlia- ing this federal loophole on IVF treatments ment. It would probably be fair enough if the and other associated procedures is in line government was going to legislate to deprive with pursuing ideals that reflect established the states of the rights that they have, but to community goals for the common good. not mention the fact that it was going to leg- The federal government is seeking to islate to allow the states to maintain the amend legislation that presently allows the rights that they have always had seems to be Federal Court to override some state laws a bit of a strange argument to me. that reserve assisted reproductive treatment Secondly, the previous speaker was for male-female couples. The government’s speaking about the need for databases, rights amendments to the Sex Discrimination Act and the development of protocols. I have no introduced to the parliament are in no way argument with any of that, but one would intended to allow states and territories to think, by the vehemence of the argument of legislate to restrict access only to women the member opposite, that there was no such who are married. The government’s move thing as IVF prior to 1996. I agree that many towards restoring the integrity of the states’ of those things should be done. But let us not jurisdiction over health and medical care has go down the track of the political argument certainly angered some single women and that she was speaking about over and over lesbian couples seeking children, but it again that the coalition side of the House is should not be viewed as a condemnation of doing something for political purposes, be- lifestyle. Less scrupulous sources of infor- cause there was every opportunity for the mation have painted the issue as one of other side of the House to make the same making a judgment in favour of heterosexual legislation, to make the same points, prior to couples. Nothing could be further from the 1996. truth. That is unfortunate, given that these distortions found their way into the reports of The case in the Federal Court of McBain several media outlets. v. The State of Victoria held that Victorian legislation restricting IVF treatment to By moving to close this loophole, the fed- women who are married and living with their eral government is acting to give children husband on a genuine, or domestic, basis or what the vast majority of the community living with a man in a de facto relationship believes is the best chance for a good start in was inconsistent with the Commonwealth a life that is full of variables from that point Sex Discrimination Act and, as a conse- on. This is not about saying that, because quence, it was deemed invalid under section someone is single or gay, they provide a less 109 of the Constitution. At that point, this caring home for a child, nor is it to say that government decided to amend the Sex Dis- heterosexual couples are always better par- crimination Act so as to permit any state to ents. That is simply not the case. legislate to the effect of the Victorian act There are a million different situations and under consideration in the McBain case. countless socioeconomic equations involved It is right for this government to return re- in all relationships, and no generalisation can sponsibility for access to assisted reproduc- hope to accurately weigh one set of circum- tive technology to the state where it belongs. stances against another. But I believe—and I Before anybody says that this is a cop-out, I think the vast majority of the community Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26205 believes—that the best start for a child in Discrimination Act follows its use recently these increasingly demanding and uncertain to override, as we said, Victorian legislation times is to have, where possible, a mother restricting treatment to heterosexual couples. and a father. This is about trying to ensure The debate is somewhat irrelevant to my that a child has a right to what we recognise constituents in New South Wales, I under- as the best chance of a stable, loving up- stand, where such treatment is available to bringing, given that we will share our society single women, gay or not. But the fact re- with this child in years to come. In the case mains that we as parliamentarians are elected of boys, we as a community recognise that to pursue the common good for our constitu- the absence of a male role model in the ents, and the evidence that we are on the household can, in some ways, be detrimental right track is the difficulty the opposition to their development. It is certainly not a have had bringing themselves to disagree. criticism of single mums who find them- This is one of those occasions when the ar- selves in those situations—I personally am gument in favour of what this government very closely involved with many single proposes sufficiently eclipses the knee-jerk mums who are fantastic parents—but, as a arguments to the contrary to the point where deliberate choice for the youngster, the fa- the opposing view is unpalatable even to therless home is not what we want if it can many in the opposition ranks. Calls for con- be avoided. science votes and mutterings of ALP back- There are some crazy arguments on this bench unrest skirted this issue, because the side of the debate about who will pay child eagerness to play politics with this issue is support if a lesbian couple separates and not shared by many in the Labor Party, nor even some calls from single males about by their constituents apparently. There is no their right to children if that right is a univer- clearer indication than this scenario that the sal one, but I think these scenarios only government is on the right track as far as cloud the issue. For me the point is that we reflecting community expectations. have some control over just one of the mil- An Australian Associated Press article lions of influences on this young life, and if raised the prospect of de facto couples being we can encourage a situation where that delayed access to the treatment in some child is born into a household with a mum states due to matters of legal recognition. In and a dad then we as a society find that pref- Western Australia and South Australia cou- erable. It is about the common good as our ples must be together for five years to be society sees it, just like countless other deci- formally recognised, the article stated. I can sions, such as speed limits on the roads we appreciate certainly that this would not be share, for example. For some drivers’ abili- applauded by a de facto couple wishing to ties, 100 kilometres a hour is too slow; for utilise assisted reproductive technology, but others it is probably still too risky. But, in in this case in these states it is not as though terms of what we see as best for the common the parents are trapped in an intractable po- good, we exert control over that one aspect sition. If they want to access those proce- of road travel that might reduce the likeli- dures sooner, they have the option to tie the hood of death or injury for us all. knot, and if that offends a core belief of some Similarly, we prefer the adults with which description then they, as mature people, must we share our community to have at least recognise that their beliefs in this case come been given a chance at a mum and a dad at at some cost. the outset of their lives, however temporary, I hark back to the comment I made before or even if that may not always be the perfect that that is not a belief that I would share if I situation. But children born to lesbian cou- was in the state government concerned. But, ples or partnerless women using reproductive as this is a matter for the states to determine technology never have that chance, and I do for those people who prefer the absence of not think that is something we wish to en- legal recognition in their relationship, we courage. The move to amend the federal Sex must say that it is reasonable for the states to 26206 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 seek some other indication of their stability Emeritus Professor Carl Wood of Monash and claim to be in a long-term relationship. University, who said: In short, this legislation is about preventing The rejection of lesbians as suitable parents by federal legislation being used to knobble the artificial insemination or IVF may be due to ho- laws of the states comprising our Federation. mophobia as there is no evidence that they are In doing so, this government has acted with less effective than heterosexual parents. It may wisdom and in line with the wishes of the also reflect the continued rejection of female vast majority of the people it represents. rights by males in positions of power in politics, business and the law. Myriad faxes and letters have come through my office, and I understand the of- That is exactly what this chamber is trying to fices of many others, from groups that are do tonight. It is essentially a group of males concerned about this legislation: the Polish from the government side trying to withdraw Christian Church; MU Australia, which I the rights of a number of women—and we understand is the Mothers Union—probably are not talking about a large number of not a group that I would have a lot in com- women; we are talking about something like mon with, but I understand that when they 130 to 150 women per year. sent out a survey a comment recorded across It does not take an Einstein to realise what the survey was, ‘Don’t be so stupid’, the im- this legislation is about and why it is being plication being that parenting is difficult in presented to the parliament of Australia at normal circumstances without imposing such this time. It is about a Prime Minister seeing difficulties by choice—the Women’s Action an opportunity to divide Australia once again Alliance, which support it; the Presbyterian and to milk the situation politically for a few Church of Victoria; the Presbyterian Church votes. The fact that this legislation will end of Eastern Australia; and many others, in- the hopes of some Australian women to have cluding the Right to Life Association. children means nothing to this present gov- As I mentioned at the beginning of this ernment. The fact that the Federal Court address, this is certainly not one of those ruled that prohibiting fertility treatment to times where there is a clear black and white single women and lesbians was unconstitu- line of definition between what is right and tional means nothing to this government. The what is wrong. But I believe that the action reason why we have this legislation today is that the government is taking in this case is that the government intends to overrule the representative of certainly the vast majority law by changing it. of views of those in my electorate, and I am We have a government that is saying chil- happy to stand here and make those utter- dren should be born into a family, have a ances publicly. mother and father and know them both. This Mr HORNE (Paterson) (9.42 p.m.)—It is reminds me very much of a publication that very interesting to look at the speakers list the then opposition produced in 1995 show- for the debate on the Sex Discrimination ing the white weatherboard home, the picket Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2000 and notice— fence, the yard—everything was beautiful. I as I said to Dr Lawrence and the former called it the Pollyanna picture book, the speaker from the opposition side, I think I daydreamers book, the sort of thing that you am an honorary member of the sisterhood saw in the movies of the 1950s and 1960s tonight—the absence of women from the that I can recall of the Midwest of the United government speaking on this issue. That States where everything in the garden was concerns me, because I believe this should wonderful. That is what this government be a bipartisan issue, and it should be one would have you believe about families, but it that is fought on human rights. Later I will is simply not the case. turn to a doorstop that the Prime Minister This government has to identify what it gave last August, but before the member for has responsibility for and where its responsi- Parkes leaves the chamber I will quote bility ends. In this legislation, is there any mention about jobs—the rights of families, Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26207 the parents, to have jobs? Is there any men- all the physical and emotional support they tion of love and the ability of parents to love needed. Yet this is a government that says and care for the child? Is there any mention that should not happen. I know fathers who of the need for parental guidance and under- have reared children because either their standing to help with the problems faced by partner walked out and left the children or a growing child? Is there any mention of the they were widowed, and they too have done child being safeguarded against physical, a magnificent job. How does this govern- mental and sexual abuse? The answer is no, ment feel about that? I know a lesbian cou- there is not. All we have in this legislation is ple—they are professional people with two a government saying that it is preferable that children. How the children were conceived I a child be born into a nuclear family of do not know, and it is none of my business. mother and father, and that is where the gov- All I know is that those children are in a very ernment’s responsibility ends. There is no stable, loving environment. They are cared mention of these things, just the ideal that a for by both parents, and they are the delight child should be born into a nuclear family of the whole of the community. I see the and, once they are there, live happily ever member for New England nodding his head after. We know, and statistics show, that it in agreement with the Prime Minister be- does not work that way. cause, according to this government, that sort How arrogant can a government be deter- of family should not exist. That they have a mining who should have children and who happy, healthy and desirable lifestyle, ac- not. If this government is prepared to stand cording to this government, has no place in up for this legislation and say that some sin- our community and should not exist. This gle women should not become pregnant, government has shown how it will react to what are they going to do about other single the High Court making a decision: it will women who do? This has always been the simply change the legislation. It is discrimi- problem in society. As a young person nation at its very worst. It is denial of what growing up in the 1960s, lots of my mates modern society is all about. It is denial of would come and confide in me, saying, ‘My lifestyles that can be successful, but they are girlfriend is pregnant. What do I do?’ Essen- different lifestyles from those understood by tially, it was pre-abortion days and no-one the Prime Minister. would have recommended that. You either As a father, it has been a great pleasure— got married or you did not get married. If the and I guess I could even say it has been the nuclear family is the ideal, is the government reason for life—for both my wife and I to putting pressure on single girls who become have had children, to have watched them pregnant to go out and get married, to get develop, to have watched them go through themselves a partner, because it says that the school, to have cared for them, to have ideal is for children to be born into a nuclear shared their joys, to have watched their ca- family and have both a mother and father? I reers develop and to have loved them and to think the statistics show that those are the have been loved in return. I guess we are sorts of marriages that do not last. Therefore, very fortunate. But I do not feel any different you would have a government promoting because we are one of those families that the marriage that was not secure and probably Prime Minister says should be the only sort not well planned. Maybe it intends to force of family. That is really not the case, because them to have an abortion. These are the sorts there are many other people that could be of questions that this government is sticking standing here describing an atypical family its head in the sand over and it is ignoring in which the love and care was just as great. the real facts of modern life. But this is a Prime Minister who says, ‘That I guess everyone in this parliament knows should not exist and, if it has a chance of single women who have reared children very existing, we will change the law so that it successfully. They have cared for them, pro- cannot.’ vided for them, loved them and given them 26208 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

The point comes down to this: who am I was going to govern for all of us? All of as an individual to judge someone and say to us—unless you fall into some minority them, ‘Because you are different, because group. you are single and because you do not have a I started my speech essentially by saying male partner and although you may be an that this is an attempt by a government to employed person or you may be a profes- divide. I would like to follow that up by us- sional person and you pay your taxes to ing a transcript of a doorstop interview that Australia, you have fewer rights than other the Prime Minister gave in Sydney on 2 people.’ Is that my right? I do not think it is. August last year. It is an interesting one, be- Is that the right of this parliament? Is that cause I try to think of the thought processes why this parliament is here—to turn around involved. Question 1 by the journalist was and say to some Australian women, ‘You about interest rates. Question 2 was about have fewer rights than others’? I do not be- interest rates—actually the Reserve Bank lieve that is why this parliament is here, and had put the interest rate up the previous day. that is why the Federal Court judged the way Question 3 was about interest rates. Question it did, because the court did not feel it was its 4 was about interest rates. Question 5 was right either. The Federal Court’s opinion was about the economy. Question 6 was about that it was unconstitutional, and I believe the interest rates and the GST. Question 7 was Federal Court was right. I believe that, no inaudible, but the answer was about the Sex matter how long you look at this situation, Discrimination Act. It just so happened that a you have to come down on the side of saying Labor Party conference was taking place in that everyone is an individual but we are all Hobart at the time. I just cannot understand Australians and we all have the same rights. how a logical thought process could jump One of the great things about Australia, one from interest rates to the Sex Discrimination of the things that we believe is an innate Act. But there is one line that I would like to property of being Australian, is that we all quote and this comes after the ninth question: have the same rights—and yet this legisla- ... Will you allow a conscience vote on this for tion we are debating tonight says no. Liberal Senators? Let us have a look at the statistics of mar- ... No, there’s no need for a conscience vote on riage and marriage breakdown. The statistics something like this. This is not effectively a con- of the ABS show that, with the progression science issue. of time, marriages are becoming less suc- This was a very dictatorial issue of the Prime cessful. In 1988, 44,000 children under 18 Minister, because he knew how it would di- years were involved in a parental divorce. By vide the Australian community. He knew 1998, this had jumped to 51,600, the rate what it would do to Australia and he felt that being 10.9 per thousand. So we are talking he would position himself favourably. Of about the ideal of children being in a nuclear course, we go back to August and all the family, but we know that about 11 children media was indicating that we could expect per thousand are not in that. If we are debat- the legislation the following week. Here it is, ing a piece of legislation that is going to and today is 2 April. We have a piece of mean that somewhere between 130 and 150 legislation that was so urgent that the Prime women have access to assisted reproductive Minister, the Minister for Health and Aged techniques, that number is minuscule. But Care and the Attorney-General were out this government is prepared to go out on a there in the press every day saying that we limb to identify those people and prevent had to have this piece of legislation, but we them from participating in what may be and have now been waiting nine months. I sup- probably would be one of the most fulfilling pose that is a human gestation period, and I things of their lives. This is a government find that interesting. We have waited that that is prepared to prejudge those people and long for this piece of legislation. tell them they cannot be involved in raising a family. Wasn’t this the Prime Minister that Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26209

Let me conclude. I found an article by denigrating and destroying the traditional Geoffrey Barker in the Financial Review on family unit. But what upsets me most is 25 August last year. It says: when I see members of parliament engaged If the Prime Minister is going to go down this in the same activity. We have just had a dia- path, there are four obvious objections to the tribe on that for 20 minutes—certainly it was Prime Minister’s claim that the rights of children not memorable. Most attempts at so-called to be raised jointly by female and male parents social engineering during the last 100 years trump the rights of single women’s and lesbians’ have resulted in increased levels of misery access to fertility service. First, he appears to be and unhappiness throughout society as a suggesting that non-existent children have a pre- whole. sumptive right not to be conceived outside a two- parent, heterosexual, atomic family. At best, this Mr Fitzgibbon—That was because of the is a highly abstract and unanalysed claim. Can Nationals! negative rights be claimed coherently on behalf of Mr St CLAIR—The chardonnay intel- non-existent human beings? lectuals—I am getting to you, member for Second, how does reflecting his view of the Hunter—so warmly embraced by the Labor ‘right’ sort of family in which to parent and raise Party cannot seem to understand the fact that children ... Yet, as Wood says— many traditional families are quite content that is, emeritus professor Carl Wood— with that structure. They do not want you to while unknown factors operate in parenting, it meddle in their affairs and to carry out search may be that the quality of loving and caring is and destroy missions on their happiness, just most important, whether the parents are legally because they do not fit your ideological pa- married, a de facto couple or a surrogate in asso- rameters. Probably the worst offenders ciation with a single mother, lesbian or single within the Labor Party are the rabid femi- parent in a traditional marriage where the spouse nists, who loathe any shred of male influence has died or divorced. in any part of our lives. Third, there is a gap between what Howard thinks ought to be the circumstances under which chil- Mr Tim Fischer—The member for dren should be raised and the circumstances in Hunter is not one of those. which many children are in fact raised. Divorce, Mr St CLAIR—I am not so sure, member desertion, death and other factors condemn many for Farrer. It is probably hard for the opposi- children to be raised in single-parent homes with- tion to understand, but in my electorate of out security, care or love. Amending the Sex Dis- New England it is the women who are most crimination Act will not alter this reality. disgusted by the actions of your anti-male Fourth, as Wood says, to be single and/or lesbian crusaders—or whatever it is you regard is irrelevant to parental adequacy or outcomes. If yourselves as. Mind you, the tide is starting a single woman plans a pregnancy, has money, to turn. For years, fathers have had to suffer education and assistance with parenting while working, then she is likely to cope. It is difficult in silence as report after report came out of for those who are poor and alone and trying to feminist run institutions about the negative work. impact of men within the family unit. I am They are the thoughts of a professor who not talking about relationships where there was a forerunner in IVF and who has studied are genuine concerns and problems but, con- the whole issue. This government—essen- trary to your propaganda on that side of the tially, I think, through its ignorance—is ig- House— noring the rights of those people that want to Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Nehl)—I use this technology and is certainly making it am loath to interrupt the honourable member very hard for them. I believe that it will be for New England, but the chair has no condemned for it, and so it should be. propaganda on this issue. Please address Mr St CLAIR (New England) (10.02 your remarks through the chair. p.m.)—It often amazes me that there are so Mr St CLAIR—Apologies, Mr Deputy many people in Australia who seem intent on Speaker. These relationships are in the mi- nority and most families are relatively con- 26210 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 tent. I have seen recent reports that show that heterosexual couples, at the taxpayer’s ex- children benefit from the influence of a male pense. and female parent and that some children I am even more concerned when same sex who do not have that contact find it more couples use the Sexual Discrimination Act to difficult to interact with society as they grow force their way into these programs. The Sex older. But those reports are ignored by the Discrimination Amendment Bill (No. 1) chattering crusaders, in between their sips of 2000 remedies a problem with the operation chardonnay, because those reports do not of the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 identi- reinforce their view of the world. They only fied by the Federal Court in its decision in have one view, and that view is to destroy McBain v. The State of Victoria. In that case, the traditional family unit, regardless of the the court held that Victorian legislation re- suffering that it will cause, and with no re- stricting access to assisted reproductive tech- gard for, the children in our society. nology treatment to women who were mar- I know this is uncomfortable for some ried and living with their husband on a people, but the traditional family unit re- genuine domestic basis, or living with a man mains the base of our society, which is es- in a de facto relationship, was inconsistent tablished along Christian principles. My with the Commonwealth Sex Discrimination wife, my four children and I are my immedi- Act, and as a consequence was invalid under ate family, and I hold this unit more precious section 109 of the Constitution. It is the gov- than anything else. That is why I get so an- ernment’s view that it was not contemplated gry and annoyed when I feel my family is that the Sex Discrimination Act would pre- under attack. I get angry when I feel my role vent the states legislating to restrict access to within my family is being denigrated. The ART procedures to women who are married Labor Party may not cherish the family unit, or living in de facto relationships. The Sex but I can assure all those concerned Austra- Discrimination Amendment Bill (No. 1) lians that they have a friend on this side of 2000 will amend the Sex Discrimination Act the chamber—a friend who will defend the to allow the states and territories to legislate family unit at all costs. However, I am aware to permit restrictions to be imposed on ac- that my opponents are equally determined. cess to any form of ART services on the ba- Make no mistake: these people are fanatics sis of marital status. in the true sense of the word, and like true The Commonwealth has limited constitu- fanatics they will let nothing stand in their tional power to legislate in this field. It is way—certainly nothing as feeble, in their consistent with the states’ responsibilities in view, as logic or commonsense or morality relation to the regulation of the provision of or respect for the laws of nature. medical care and treatment that they be per- It must be terrible for some people to ac- mitted to legislate in the area of ART as they knowledge that the only way to naturally consider appropriate. This issue primarily conceive a child is for a male and female to involves the right of a child within our soci- have heterosexual intercourse. Conception ety to have the reasonable expectation, other cannot be achieved by male to male, nor can things being equal, of the care and affection it be achieved by female to female inter- of both a mother and a father. The amend- course. But I am engaging in parliamentary ment deals with ART services. ART services homophobia! In fact, I am merely stating the are defined to mean services using technol- facts. I have no concern whatsoever that ogy to assist in non-coital fertilisation. The some people in our society choose to live in main forms of ART include in vitro fertilisa- same sex relationships. However, I do have tion, artificial insemination and gamete, zy- concerns when they attempt to overcome gote and embryo transfers. IVF involves a infertility, which is an obvious aspect of any range of procedures aimed at achieving same sex relationship, by demanding access pregnancy where there are issues of infertil- to programs initially intended for infertile ity. IVF actually means that ova are fertilised outside of a woman’s body to allow the fer- Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26211 tilised ova or embryos to be implanted at infertile couples. Births after assisted con- some later stage. ception are continuing to increase in Austra- Artificial insemination involves the trans- lia, according to a report released in 1999 by ferral of sperm into the reproductive tract of the Australian Institute of Health and Wel- a woman to achieve pregnancy. Fertilisation fare. The report showed that there were occurs within the woman’s body. Artificial 3,458 births in Australia after assisted con- insemination is used to achieve pregnancy in ception in 1997, a 9.3 per cent increase on women who are fertile but do not have male the previous year. The director of the Na- partners or who do not wish to become preg- tional Perinatal Statistics Unit, Dr Paul Lan- nant by traditional coital means; by couples caster, said the message that is probably of where the male partner is infertile, through greatest interest to couples considering as- donor insemination; and in some cases where sisted conception is that, when all techniques the woman may not be classified as infertile of assisted conception are put together, births in the strict sense but nevertheless has been occurred in 15.2 per cent of treatment cycles. unable to become pregnant by coital means. Another interesting finding was that about 9 Artificial insemination is by far the most per cent of assisted conception mothers were commonly used procedure by single and les- aged 40 years or more, compared with two bian women to achieve pregnancy in the ab- per cent of all mothers giving birth. Simi- sence of female infertility. IVF is generally larly, about 25 per cent of assisted concep- only utilised by single and lesbian women if tion fathers were 40 or over compared with pregnancy has not been able to be achieved 10 per cent of all new fathers. through artificial insemination. I would urge those on the other side to re- The bill will commence upon royal assent. spect the family unit and support this When the bill commences, any provisions of amendment. We need to strengthen the the Victorian and South Australian acts that building blocks of our society, not tear them have previously been ruled inconsistent with down. We need to make families feel good the Sex Discrimination Act will revive. The about themselves, not guilty. Only then can amendment will also ensure the validity of we stride confidently into the new millen- the existing Western Australian legislation. If nium as a strong and united nation. I com- a state or territory chooses not to legislate in mend the bill to the House. this area, the Sex Discrimination Act will Mrs IRWIN (Fowler) (10.15 p.m.)—As a continue to apply. The government is acting woman in this parliament, I find it very in- to ensure that states and territories have the teresting that the coalition members debating power to enact legislation to limit the avail- the Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill ability of assisted reproductive technologies (No. 1) 2000 are all men. I think that only to married women and those living in a de one coalition woman has spoken to this bill, facto relationship with a male partner. In and I find that inaction from the women on doing so the government is doing its part to the opposite side of the chamber absolutely protect the rights of children to have the care disgusting. and protection, other things being equal, of The debate on this legislation before the both their mother and father. House this evening is one that has been go- The problem of fertility among heterosex- ing on across the country for some months ual couples is an issue that seems to be in- now—in homes, in workplaces, in pubs and creasing in recent decades, but medical in the letters pages of our daily newspapers. authorities are unsure of the causes. Infertile It seems that everyone has an opinion on this couples who are desperate to have children issue. Who is right and who is wrong? As often find their inability to conceive very always, the answer to this question depends traumatic. Like so many other medical ad- on your point of view, and your point of vances of recent times, techniques have been view will depend on the values that are the developed which can assist a great number of foundation of your opinions. That is why 26212 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 discussion on religion or politics is banned in cut to the chase in his second reading speech. some circles. Often this is because of bitter He said: experience. One side rarely convinces the This issue primarily involves the right of a child other and the question is either settled out- within our society to have the reasonable expec- side or the parties agree to disagree. That tation, other things being equal, of the care and does not mean that all moral questions are affection of both a mother and a father. disputed. We have in common a central core He went on to say: of values that only a few people would dis- The government is acting to ensure that states and agree with. The mistake that the Prime Min- territories have the power to enact legislation to ister and this government make is that they limit the availability of assisted reproductive assume that the question of access to assisted technologies to married women and those living reproductive technology involves core hu- in a de facto relationship with a male partner. man values, ones that cannot be violated. So we are dealing with values about parent- There are many ethical issues involved in ing, not values concerning the practice of assisted reproductive technology, and gov- assisted reproductive technology, and we are ernments have been working on these issues dealing with just one per cent of the number for some time. It is hard to see where some of IVF treatments each year in Australia. of these developments are leading us and The values relating to parenting and fami- what kind of brave new world we would lies come up in arguments which stress the finish up in if we were to allow this technol- so-called right of the child to have, as the ogy to proceed without considering the ethi- Prime Minister and the Attorney-General put cal issues involved. But you could hardly say it, ‘the care and protection, other things be- that we have reached the Brave New World ing equal, of both a mother and a father’. or The Boys from Brazil stage. Instead, ad- There is that lovely phrase: ‘other things be- vances in IVF treatment have brought great ing equal’. Well, other things rarely are joy and fulfilment to a growing number of equal, and that is the reason why we have Australians who would otherwise have been laws like the Sex Discrimination Act. childless. More than 30,000 Australian ba- bies have been born through the IVF pro- Supporters of this legislation raise the ar- gram. This benefit has been seen to outweigh gument that a child has the right to be born many of the moral issues that have sur- into a family. They then go on to define the form of that family, based on their own val- rounded IVF treatment. ues. To follow that line, you would have to Despite objections from some major re- state that the worst two-parent family is bet- ligious bodies, I believe that IVF treatment is ter than the best single-parent family, and widely accepted in our society. I could not you just cannot say that. You cannot talk in imagine this government trying to ban IVF averages when you are making judgments treatment. That certainly is not the objective about the lives of individuals. You cannot of this legislation, although that does seem to generalise from the whole population when be the position of Right to Life Australia. you are dealing with individual cases. Their press release on this issue states: We need to draw a line between what may At heart the debate is not simply about whether be seen as core moral values and those val- single mothers and/or lesbians make suitable ues which merely reflect opinions. We need mothers, but about further extending the IVF pro- gram ... to distinguish between core values which are held by all but a few in our society and those Despite the protests of Right to Life, the which represent the opinions of some but by moral issues we are dealing with here are not no means all members of our society. The issues related to IVF treatment or to other Prime Minister seems to understand the dif- assisted reproductive technology, as such. ference between core promises and non-core The moral issues we are dealing with relate promises; I hope he can make the same dis- to parenting and, in particular, fatherhood. tinction between core values and non-core The Attorney-General said as much when he Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26213 values. Values are important to us. They ex- governments may make some minor savings press who we are and how we see the world, in the cost of IVF treatment if even a small but we do not all have the same set of values. number are denied access to these services. We have core values in common with each Certainly those individuals and groups who other, but when we break down those values seek to impose their narrow model of a fam- into attitudes and opinions we begin to see ily on the whole of society could claim vic- differences between one another. This gov- tory. But, at the end of the day, this issue ernment and many in the community fail to involves matters of individual conscience, understand this. They assume that their val- not of the members of this parliament but of ues are the only ones that matter and that the men and women who make up our soci- everyone else should fall into line with them. ety. But values affect more than just the way we It is interesting to note that those who think. Values and opinions influence our at- have called for members and senators to ex- titudes to other people in our society. Where ercise an individual conscience vote on this we see people as different or not conforming issue would then impose the outcome of that to our set of values, this can lead to bigotry vote on the whole of society. They would be and discrimination, even to hatred. This big- the first to deny ordinary citizens the right to otry becomes the justification for discrimi- act in accordance with their own conscience. nation. It is here that we should see the harm This is where the winners finally lose out. in this amending legislation, which amends While ever one Australian state allows ac- the Sex Discrimination Act, no less. cess to assisted reproductive technology, What benefit does the legislation provide? then these services will be available in Aus- According to the explanatory memorandum, tralia. It will be costly and inconvenient to the amendments are expected to have a mi- seek treatment interstate, but it will be avail- nor and unquantifiable financial impact on able. It seems crazy that, in the year in which government revenue—not that they would we celebrate the Centenary of Federation, constitute a serious erosion of the Sex Dis- this government wants to force citizens to crimination Act. It is worth considering the travel from one state to another to gain ac- views which have been presented on issues cess to services. If the cost and inconven- like this. For example, there is the argument ience of seeking treatment interstate is the that some taxpayers may be unwilling to only downside for the losers, it is a price that have their taxes used for purposes to which many are prepared to pay. As anyone who they object. This argument overlooks the role has undergone IVF treatment will tell you, it of governments in distributing revenue on takes great courage and endurance to perse- the basis of policies which consider the wel- vere with the program. Success is not guar- fare of the nation as a whole and not just anteed and there is enormous stress, pain and sectional interests. Where the objection is discomfort involved. based on religious conviction, it conven- Those people will also tell you that the iently overlooks the favourable tax treatment reward is worth every bit of the cost. But this of religious institutions and places of wor- government wants to deny such treatment to ship. some people who have the courage and dedi- I began by asking who is right and who is cation to undergo IVF treatment on the wrong in this debate but, as I have explained, grounds that their children would suffer from when we are not dealing with a high moral not having adequate parents. This is laugh- principle but with what comes down to op- able. If you devised a test for parents that posing views, each held by significant pro- was as rigorous as that for entry into an IVF portions of the population, then the answer program, you would find an awful lot of par- really does not matter. We could look at who ents failing the test. But this legislation en- are the winners and who are the losers. Let ables some states to have a laughable test for us say, for argument’s sake, that this legisla- people in de facto relationships who are to be tion is passed. Who wins? You could say that judged to see if they should be allowed IVF 26214 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 treatment. Any relationship which can with- Environment: Kyoto Protocol stand the rigours of IVF treatment does not Mr MURPHY (Lowe) (10.30 p.m.)—Last need to meet any other test. Monday evening I was in this chamber ex- As I have said, there is no high moral pressing my grave concerns about green- principle involved in this amendment to the house gas emissions and global warming and Sex Discrimination Act. If we look for any the effect this is having on our environment. moral principle to support this legislation, we The decision over the weekend by the are left with the argument about the right of world’s greatest polluter, the United States, children to a mother and a father. Is this a to abandon the Kyoto agreement is incredi- core value? Is it one which all but a few in bly selfish and a monumental act of envi- our society would agree with? Opinion poll- ronmental vandalism. President George W. ing would seem to suggest that a large pro- Bush has decided that the devastating effects portion of society would not agree with it. So of global warming are not an important we could hardly call it a core value. Even the enough issue for the US to do anything that Right to Life organisation dismisses this ar- would upset the US economy. Climate gument, as I quoted earlier: change in the form of increased tempera- The debate is not simply about whether single tures, rising sea levels and the frequency of mothers and/or lesbians make suitable mothers ... extreme droughts and floods do not interest What we are left with is the conclusion that the smokestack businessmen that now dictate this legislation is not about children’s rights, and donate to the Republican Party led by an it is not based on some high moral princi- oil businessman, George W. Bush. Most ap- ple—it is nothing more than a shabby exer- palling is the fact that George W. Bush’s cise in wedge politics. It is clearly an attempt cabinet is stacked with oil, lead and alumin- by the Prime Minister and this government to ium business executives who are only moti- create an us and them type of society. On vated by the economic imperatives. one side we have the Prime Minister and his The Kyoto agreement was going to be an white picket fence morality—anyone with historic step towards a global solution to values or a lifestyle which does not fit his greenhouse gas emissions. The United States mould is excluded. They can be freely criti- would have been required to cut carbon di- cised as dole bludgers and unmarried moth- oxide emissions by five per cent by 2012. ers or any number of terms of abuse that are For an economy in such a pre-eminent posi- used, and if this legislation is passed they can tion, it would have been a relatively small be discriminated against. They can be denied price to pay in the name of true world leader- access to services that all others in our soci- ship. What a tragedy for United States—in- ety are entitled to—not because of a high deed the world—that the former US Vice moral principle, but because of a narrow President and Democratic presidential candi- prejudice and because a small-minded Prime date in last year’s US election, Al Gore, was Minister wants to exploit what he sees as a robbed of the presidency. Let me take a mo- political advantage. The Prime Minister ment to read a short article written by Al wants to turn back the clock, to go back to Gore and published in a special issue of Time the days when men were men and women magazine in November 1997. This article could be discriminated against. But the titled ‘Respect the land’ demonstrates that Al Prime Minister is doomed to fail and this Gore truly understood the importance of legislation is doomed to fail. taking care of our precious planet. Al Gore ADJOURNMENT said: Mr SPEAKER—Order! It being 10.30 When we consider a subject as sweeping as the environment, we often focus on its most tangible p.m., I propose the question: aspects—the air we breathe, the water we drink, That the House do now adjourn. the food we put on the table. Those things are critically important. But to me the environment is also about something less tangible, though no less Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26215 important. It is about our sense of community— continue not only to bring us its natural gifts, but the obligation we have to each other, and to future also to bring us together. generations, to safeguard God’s earth. It is about Al Gore is right. With the mixed messages our sense of responsibility, and the realisation that coming from the Howard government natural beauty and resources that took millions of years to develop could be damaged and depleted through the media today about George W. in a matter of decades. Bush’s decision to abandon the environment, I call on the Howard government to show These are values I learned first-hand, as the young boy on my family farm in Carthage, Ten- leadership on this issue, like Al Gore, and nessee. We didn’t call it environmentalism back stand with our powerful allies in this cause: then; it was simply commonsense. My earliest our children. environmental lessons came from our efforts to Diesel Fuel: Excise Reduction prevent soil erosion—by stopping the formation of gullies that would wash away the vital topsoil Mr WAKELIN (Grey) (10.35 p.m.)—To- on which our farm depended. For a time, some night I bring to the House’s attention the cir- large farmers who leased their land for short-term cumstances of a constituent and his family at profits didn’t worry about soil erosion; that’s one a small enterprise about 500 kilometres north of the reasons more than three hectares of prime of Adelaide at Angorichina Tourist Village. topsoil floats past Memphis every hour, washed David Scicluna runs the Angorichina Tourist away for good. Village. He caters for many buses, with a As a teenager, I learned that such short-term focus on overseas and domestic tourism. The thinking was causing even more serious prob- Angorichina Tourist Village is in the Flinders lems. One of the books that we discussed around Ranges on the Parachilna Road, between our family table was Rachel Carson’s classic Si- Parachilna and Blinman. The issue I raise lent Spring, about pesticide abuse. As it did for relates to the diesel fuel excise. David uses millions around the world, Carson’s book helped about 40,000 litres of diesel a year to provide awaken in me an understanding that our planet’s life is too precious to squander. the power required to run his enterprise which requires 24-hour power. Today, the threats to our environment are even closer to see—and much greater in scope and He runs the diesel generator until about 1 number. We live in a world where climate change, o’clock in the morning and then has a sepa- deforestation, holes in the ozone layer and air rate wiring system and a bank of batteries, pollution are growing sources of concern. Our which he has just invested in, which gives challenge is to find new ways to address those that 24-hour power service. If David were on problems by reaching back to our oldest values of the normal domestic electricity grid, that community and responsibility—by inspiring a power would cost him around $10,000 per greater respect for the land of the resources we annum. For the last two decades at least, un- share—even as economies and societies advance and develop around the world. der the Labor government and in the early years of the coalition government, David Fortunately, as I have raised a family of my would have been paying—certainly in the own, I have learned that we have millions of powerful allies in this cause: our children. It is last decade—$10,000 to $15,000 per annum often children who remind their parents to recycle in excise. His excise bill alone is equal to their cans, or to bundle their newspapers. It is what most people would expect to pay for often children who remind their parents of the their total power bill for such a small busi- simple miracles of nature—the crops that come ness. from our farms, the parks and lakes and campsites David’s costs are around $60,000 per year. where families and communities gather. That includes diesel, the battery bank, repairs If we are to protect and preserve our environ- and maintenance of his generator sets and ment on a global scale, we all must do our part, as repairs and maintenance on his gas freezers. nations, as families and as individuals. The need I think that establishes the case that here we for awareness has never been greater, and the opportunity for us to make a difference is just as have a very viable, thriving small business great. If we practice and teach the right kind of which employs one person who is subjected caring commitment for our environment, it will to this unfair excise imposition. Let us com- 26216 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 pare it to the excise input on the sources of ees, especially those in the hospitality indus- energy and all other electricity generated in try, over the years are yet to be fully meas- Australia. There is no input energy tax on ured. coal, gas, water or wind, yet there is a tax on My mother, who was a barmaid and a diesel in these circumstances. Therefore, I cook for 60 years, developed respiratory dis- would be very keen to see the government ease and paid the price with a painful and consider this. Let us remind the House of shortened life. An important issue from a what the Howard-Anderson government health perspective is the effect of tobacco brought to the last election. They wanted to smuggling on our attempts to control smok- bring separate rebate arrangements and said: ing. Australia is relatively lucky. Tobacco ... we will continue to provide relief from excise smuggling is largely restricted to chop chop. for certain private, off-road use of diesel, such as Chop chop is cheap tobacco that is sold ille- remote power generation including generators not gally in delicatessens, pubs and the backs of currently eligible. cars. Essentially, it is tobacco in clear plastic Clearly, the intention of the new tax system bags and is extremely cheap, as the dishonest was to exempt David from this imposition, people selling it do not pay the government but, in the negotiations with the Democrats, any tax on it. However, the sale of illegal that was pushed to one side. Here we have tobacco in Asia and the rest of the world is one small business in the Flinders Ranges an organised and highly profitable industry. paying as much in tax on his fuel as would For example, in East Timor you can buy a be the total cost normally for a business in carton of Marlboro cigarettes for the price of the city or anyone else connected to the grid. a packet in Australia. I ask the government, in developing policy I would like to draw the attention of the for the next election, to acknowledge the House to a report entitled ‘Tobacco compa- enterprise of individuals like David Scicluna nies linked to criminal organisations in lu- and his family who are working in a sustain- crative cigarette smuggling’ by the Interna- able and growing industry. tional Consortium of Investigative Journal- Tobacco Industry ists. One of the journalists who wrote this Ms JANN McFARLANE (Stirling) report is Bill Birnbauer, a journalist at the (10.39 p.m.)—The health effects of smoking Age newspaper in Melbourne. I seek leave to on our society are well documented. The table this report. Australian Council on Smoking and Health Leave granted. has estimated that deaths caused by smoking Ms JANN McFARLANE—The allega- related diseases will claim the lives of over tions in this report are extremely interesting. 18,000 people this year. Governments in Unfortunately, I do not have time to go into Australia have worked hard over the past 15 great detail. However, I will give a brief out- years to combat the evils of smoking. We line of the content. Basically the report al- have bans on cigarette advertising. We have leges that the major tobacco companies have warning messages on cigarettes and other been engaging in the sale of black market tobacco products, and the Quit campaigns cigarettes. These are commonly described in run throughout Australia have been very ef- the industry as ‘duty not paid, parallel mar- fective. In my home state of Western Austra- kets, general trade or transit’. The report lia there are bans on smoking in workplaces. states: Pubs and restaurants are exempted, though they have to provide non-smoking areas. It is estimated that about one in every three ciga- rettes exported worldwide is sold on the black Recently, through the great work of the Aus- market. tralian Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union, employees at the Burswood The report reads like something out of a Casino have won the right to work in a James Bond novel. It includes the US Mafia, smoke-free environment. The social and triads and Sicilian crime families. The report health costs of passive smoking on employ- also alleges that British American Tobacco Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26217

PLC is involved in this sale of black market extremely important now that British Ameri- cigarettes. I must admit that I initially can Tobacco Australasia is almost wholly viewed this report with some scepticism. controlled by it. Tobacco smugglers circum- However, I also did some further research. vent government controls over the sale of For those who are interested in this very tobacco. (Time expired) topical issue, there is some excellent infor- Menzies Electorate: Persian New Year mation on general smoking issues and the tobacco smuggling story particularly on the Mr ANDREWS (Menzies) (10.44 p.m.)— web. This web site is run by an organisation I wish to acknowledge tonight the recent called ASH—Action on Smoking and celebration of the Persian New Year by the Health. The web address for this site is Iranian community in Australia. This new www.ash.org.au. On this site amongst the year festival is traditionally celebrated with a huge list of documents on tobacco smuggling festival of fire. I acknowledge the celebration are two interesting pieces of information. tonight because many of the Iranian commu- The first is a press release by the Secretary of nity in Melbourne live in the electorate of State for Trade and Industry in the UK, Ste- Menzies. About a thousand people attended phen Byers. In this press release he an- the traditional celebration called the Charhar nounces the British government’s response Shanbeh Soori or Festival of Fire at the Don- to the findings of the Health Select Commit- caster Municipal Park on 13 March. Now- tee report on the tobacco industry. This re- rooz, which means ‘a new day’ in the Farsi sponse includes the appointment of investi- language, is part of the traditional celebra- gators to look into allegations that British tions of the Iranian people. Nowrooz comes American PLC was implicated in smuggling. from the Zoroastrian religion—the tradi- The second is the details of a civil case with tional religion of old Persia—and includes the European Community, on behalf of its the worship of fire which continues to be member nations, the plaintiff in a racketeer- part of the modern Nowrooz celebrations. ing case against RJR Nabisco Inc. This case The House may be interested to know that is in the US District Court and centres on the Zoroastrians of Iran were originally cigarette smuggling. members of the Indo-European family Why have I brought this to the attention of known as the Aryans. They called them- the House? British American Tobacco PLC, selves Zoroastrians because they believed in which is the subject of the investigation of the teachings of the first Aryan prophet, the British Department of Trade and Indus- Zarathushtra. According to their doctrines, try, has recently been engaged in purchasing Zarathushtra, who was born in Iran about the remainder of British American Tobacco 8,000 years before Christ, was the first Australasia—BATA—in a $1.1 billion mop- prophet to preach a monotheistic religion. He up deal. The chairman of BATA prior to the revealed that there was only one God, Ahura offer and the architect of the deal was Mr Mazda, and that life in the physical world Nick Greiner, the former chairman of W.D. was a battle between good and evil. As per & H.O. Wills which merged with Rothmans man’s actions, he would either cross the Holdings Ltd to form BATA. The chairman Chinvato Peretu or the sword bridge after and company may not have been aware, be- death and reach Heaven or fall from it and go fore the merger, of the shadow on BAT to the abode of the evil one. In the final days, PLC’s reputation in relation to cigarette there would be a battle between good and smuggling. We need to watch with interest evil in which evil would be vanquished and for the result of the British departmental in- the world would be purified by a bath of vestigation and the result of the European molten metal. Mazda would then judge the Community’s court case. An adverse finding world, resurrect the dead and establish his in either of these against British American kingdom on earth. From that very brief de- Tobacco PLC will raise questions regarding scription, you can see that there are great the company’s corporate citizenship. This is similarities between Zoroastrian religion and 26218 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001 other great religions of the world, namely, larger than national capital. It is a bit like Judaism and Christianity. proving that Woolworths is larger than the The new year festival of the Iranian peo- local corner store. This type of reporting also ple was celebrated on 21 March, after which perpetuates the myth that national power is there was a period of 13 days. On the 13th synonymous with the size of national stock day there is another celebration by the com- markets. Companies, whether national or munity in which they go out into nature and global, are run in the interests of profits and throw grains like wheat or barley into a river shareholders, not necessarily in the public or or flowing water, which symbolises for them national interest. Economic power is vested the cycle of nature. This festival occurred in the hands of corporate bosses rather than last Sunday, with a marvellous celebration in in the Australian nation. Take the example of Finns Reserve in Manningham where, again, the current controversy about Woodside and there were about a thousand people from the Shell. As a matter of competition policy Iranian community in Melbourne enjoying there appear to be good reasons to block the the beautiful weather. This is a small com- takeover bid. As a matter of national sover- munity. There are only about 30,000 Iranians eignty, however, the Woodside argument is in Australia, with about 7,000 in Victoria and absurd. Woodside is controlled by a small most of them living in Melbourne. It is a number of corporate bosses on its board in small community. They are a very proud and Perth. People in my electorate, like people in a very educated people by the standards of most parts of the country, exercise absolutely migrants to Australia. The unemployment no sovereignty or control over this company rate amongst people in the Iranian commu- and its resources. nity is quite low compared with others from The distinction between global and na- ethnic backgrounds. tional capital is one of the great con jobs in It is a great celebration for them on this Australian public life. It normally involves day and an occasion that should be remarked attempts by domestic capitalists to shield upon in the House of Representatives. I take themselves from market competition, the this opportunity to note the recent festivities very rationale and logic of capitalism itself. I and to congratulate Mostafa Abedi Tani and have always expected right-wing politicians other members of the Iranian society in Vic- to fall for this strategy; they love cutting toria for the way in which they continue to sweetheart deals at the top end of town. contribute not only to the community in Why, however, some on the Left fall for the Menzies but to Australian society generally. ultranationalist argument remains a mystery. Why should we make life cosier for corpora- Ultranationalism tions with subsidies and protection paid for Mr LATHAM (Werriwa) (10.49 p.m.)—If by working-class consumers and taxpayers? I there is one emotion which overrides a sense have always believed in making capital of logic and rationality, it is ultranationalism. compete, in making these characters earn It blinds people to the facts and the tools of their keep, whether they come from Australia analysis. Take, for example, this headline in or overseas. A capitalist is a capitalist is a Saturday’s Sydney Morning Herald: ‘Global capitalist and should be treated accordingly warning: we have entered an age of giga by a Labor government. They should be corporations, huge global companies with made to compete against each other. more economic power than most compa- The real expression of Australia’s national nies’. How does the Herald reach this con- sovereignty now lies in the skills and insights clusion? It takes the market capitalisation of of our people. Of course, every dollar of the world’s leading companies and compares public money spent on industry welfare and it with the market capitalisation of domestic protection is a dollar which cannot be spent equities on national stock markets. This is of on education and training. I am highly scep- course an absurd comparison. It simply tical about these ultranationalist campaigns. proves that in most cases global capital is The Big Kev commercials on television, for Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26219 instance, involve the commercial exploita- of a young person is always a tragedy. When tion of the Australian flag for private finan- it is self-inflicted, the impact on family and cial gain. Such a practice should be prohib- friends is even more devastating—the im- ited. Just as it is wrong to abuse the flag in mense sense of loss, the questions and con- political protests, I believe that it is wrong to fusion, the feelings of guilt. Many factors abuse the flag through shonky commercial- contribute to youth suicide, and I do not ism. pretend to understand them—depression, One of the fascinating aspects of the cam- alienation, alcohol and drugs, lack of hope, paign against globalisation involves the per- family crisis and broken relationships. Many, sonal circumstances of the ultranationalists of course, suffer these problems; some, tragi- from all parts of the political spectrum. The cally, succumb to the despair that says that it campaign is being led by a group of disaf- is not worth continuing. Sadly, an increasing fected millionaires. The media are full of number of people are falling victim to sui- them. From the Left of politics, there are the cide in Australia—some 2,500 a year, one of likes of Phillip Adams and Bob Ellis; from the highest rates in the world, a rate that is the Right, Pauline Hanson, Dick Smith and increasingly alarming, especially amongst even Malcolm Fraser. This is a distinctly young people. elite movement, the revolt of a unique group One of my constituents, a young man in in our society—those who privately enjoy my electorate who has experienced the loss the comforts of capitalism, yet publicly voice of a close friend to youth suicide, is trying to its discontent. Of course, this unholy alliance do something about it. On 8 April, just next of the extreme Left and extreme Right can week, Ben Carey is setting out to cycle afford to be disaffected. They have made around Australia under the auspices of Sui- their money from business ventures, property cide Prevention Australia. Ben’s aims are investments and highly paid roles in the me- twofold: firstly, to raise awareness of the dia. The last thing they want is global com- problem and to convey the message that sui- petition—competition against their busi- cide is preventable; and, secondly, to raise nesses and competition against their privi- funds to help support the work of Suicide leged positions in the arts industry. The fi- Prevention Australia. Ben’s message is sim- nancial motives underpinning cultural pro- ple: suicide is preventable. I would like to tectionism should never be underestimated. read a small piece from the letter that Ben Nor should we underestimate the damage Carey has sent around to people asking for caused to the tolerance and success of our support. Ben Carey says: society by ultranationalism. Economic na- My name is Benjamin Carey. I have been alive tionalism and social racism are two sides of for 23 years. My very close friend was not so the same coin. Both encourage Australians to fortunate. On the 4th April 1998 he tragically think poorly of people overseas, setting our ended his own life. Ever since then I have been interests against theirs. In fact, the real con- searching for a way in which I could make a sig- flict of interest is between corporations. I say nificant contribution towards the prevention of let them compete according to the ethos of suicide. It was not the first time that I was af- market capitalism, within nations and across fected by suicide, yet it was definitely the most nations. In its final form, ultranationalism is significant. It had an enormous effect on me per- just a smokescreen for the protection of sonally as well as my extended family. Why did vested financial interests. In practice, nothing this happen? How could he have been so sad? could be further removed from a true under- Why didn’t we prevent this? If only we did more. standing of Australia’s national interests. Depression has also consumed the best part of 2 Youth Suicide years of my life. Fortunately I was able to strug- gle through this period and arrive stronger at the Mr BARTLETT (Macquarie) (10.54 other end. p.m.)—Sadly, the pain of suicide is touching an increasing number of families. The death 26220 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

Ben’s ‘Cycle for Life’, which starts next REQUEST FOR DETAILED Sunday from the town hall in Sydney, will be INFORMATION a journey of almost 22,000 kilometres, Parliament House: Television Services heading north and travelling around the out- side of Australia—around the coastal roads Mr Martin Ferguson asked Mr Speaker, and highways of Australia. His cycle ride upon notice, on 26 March 2001: starts at 12.30 p.m. and will take 365 days, (1) With respect to the arrangements to provide averaging some 60 kilometres a day. Any the FOX SPORTS service to the Parliament help which can be given to Ben Carey would House television service, is the service pro- vided free of charge, or is there a cost to the be greatly welcomed. He is seeking financial Government; if so, what is the cost. support that will help him in his trip. The proceeds will go to Suicide Prevention Aus- (2) Who made the decision to make the service available. tralia. He is also seeking speaking opportu- nities in schools and community groups as he (3) Did the Prime Minister, or any other Minis- travels through different parts of Australia to ter make representations to him or his of- fice, about making the FOX SPORTS serv- raise awareness of this problem. Support can ice available. be offered by contacting Suicide Prevention Australia. I commend Ben Carey for his de- Mr SPEAKER—The answer to the hon- termination to do what he can to address the ourable member’s question is as follows: scourge of suicide and to provide a message (1) The two FOX SPORTS services are pro- of hope. I wish him well in his endeavours. vided to Parliament House free of charge, i.e. there is no cost to the Parliament (or the Tierney, Mrs Daisy Government) for the two channels. Mr FITZGIBBON (Hunter) (10.58 (2) The President of the Senate and I agreed on p.m.)—Last Monday, 26 March, a long- 7 March 2001 to the provision of the term—in fact, lifelong—Singleton resident, FOXTEL services following letters to us Daisy Tierney, turned 104. She was born on from Mr Jim Blomfield, Chief Executive 26 March 1897. I know you would agree, Mr Officer of FOXTEL, offering the services Speaker, that that is a great innings and a for no charge and after advice from the Sec- great achievement for anyone. Last Friday I retary of the Department of the Parliamen- had the great pleasure of presenting Daisy tary Reporting Staff, which operates and maintains the House Monitoring Service. Tierney with one of those special certificates that the Centenary of Federation Committee (3) Neither the Prime Minister nor any other has struck in honour of those who turn 100 Minister made representations about this service. However, Mr Blomfield’s letters years of age or more in this the year of our advised the President and me that he had centenary. It was a great honour, and tonight written in January to the Prime Minister of- I want to mention Daisy in the Australian fering the FOX SPORTS service to Parlia- parliament and once again extend my best ment House. The Prime Minister’s office, as wishes and, I am sure, the best wishes of the well as the office of the Minister for Com- Australian parliament. munications, appropriately referred Mr Mr SPEAKER—Before I put the ques- Blomfield to me and the President, without any comment. tion, I am sure the parliament would be happy to be identified with the sentiments expressed by the member for Hunter. Question resolved in the affirmative. House adjourned at 10.59 p.m. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26221

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE The following answers to questions were circulated: Goods and Services Tax: Price Exploitation Code (Question No. 2140) Mr Fitzgibbon asked the Treasurer, upon notice, on 8 November 2000: Mr Fitzgibbon Has his attention been drawn to claims that paragraph (2)(c)(iii) of section 75AU of the Trade Practices Act significantly reduces the prospects of a successful action against GST price exploi- tation; if so, what is the Government’s reaction to the claims. Mr Costello—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: The Government introduced the Price Exploitation Code to prevent the possibility of consumer exploi- tation and excessive profit taking in the transition to the New Tax System. In drafting the Code, the Government was keen to ensure that it operated in a fair and just manner, affording affected parties the opportunity to justify legitimate pricing decisions. In particular, the Government was conscious of the range of factors that influence the pricing decisions of a business. For that reason, paragraph (2)(c) specifically allows a Court to consider any matter relevant to determining the price for supply in as- sessing whether there has been any price exploitation. On 20 October 2000, the ACCC released a report on the outcome of its latest survey of price move- ments of commonly purchased household items since the introduction of the GST. The survey confirms there is no evidence of widespread opportunistic pricing intended to raise margins immediately after the tax changes. In the relatively small number of cases where the ACCC has had concerns, these have generally been addressed by the business taking action to resolve the matter, such as by offering suitable compensation to affected customers. Australia Post: Lord Howe Island (Question No. 2322) Mr Kelvin Thomson asked the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 6 February 2001: (1) Has his attention been drawn to the December 2000 issue of Major Mail Users, the mail industry magazine. (2) Did Australia Post go to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to try to prevent a home delivery mail service being privately established on Lord Howe Island. (3) Is it a fact that Australia Post does not provide a home delivery service for mail or parcels on Lord Howe Island, meaning the island’s residents have to collect their mail from the post office. (4) Is the purpose of Australia Post’s letter delivery monopoly and associated community service ob- ligation to endeavour to ensure that a home delivery service is provided to as many Australian homes as possible. (5) If so, what is the point of Australia Post seeking to enforce its monopoly power to provide a serv- ice which it is itself unwilling or unable to provide. Mr McGauran—The answer to the honourable member’s question based on advice re- ceived from Australia Post is as follows: (1) Yes. The Minister’s attention has been drawn to the December 2000 issue of Major Mail Users, and in particular the article on Lord Howe Island. (2) No. The article in question contained a number of serious errors of fact that the Chief Executive Officer of Major Mail Users of Australia Ltd has since acknowledged publicly. (3) and (4) Consistent with its concurrent community service and commercial obligations, Australia Post’s objective is to provide mail delivery services to residences, places of work or other con- veniently located places in ways that meet the reasonable needs of the community at reasonable cost. In small communities, such as Lord Howe Island, delivery is often provided at the local postal outlet either over the counter or via a private box. (5) Australia Post did not seek to enforce its monopoly power as claimed. 26222 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

Vietnam Veterans: Conflict Service Records (Question No. 2334) Mr Latham asked the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, upon notice, on 6 February 2001: (1) Further to the answer to question No. 1160 (Hansard, 28 June 2000, page 18561), where a person claims a disability pension or service pension from his Department (DVA), does the claim form ask the claimant to indicate dates of service in Australia’s armed services; if so, is this information then recorded for each claimant on the DVA claim, rejection or payment record. (2) If so, are dates of service and the data of service record used to present data in Tables 10 to 14 in the regularly issued DVA publication, DVA Pensioner Summary. (3) If so, why is it not possible to also present information about claims, grants and rejections for dis- ability pensioners by conflict. (4) Where a person lodges an appeal with the Veterans’ Review Board (VRB) in respect of a decision made by the DVA about a disability pension, does the VRB system that monitors the details of each appellant record for each claimant the dates of service in Australia’s armed services; if so, why is it not possible to present the number of veterans’ disability pension appeals and the results of such appeals by conflict. Mr Bruce Scott—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1) Yes, the claim form does ask the claimant to indicate dates of service in Australia’s armed serv- ices. This information is then recorded for each claimant on the DVA record. (2 and 3) Dates of service are not used to present data in tables 10 to 14 in the DVA Pensioner Sum- mary. The Summary uses information based upon the file prefix, which in turn is generated by the period of service giving rise to the veteran’s initial claim. Hence a Korean War Veteran, with a pension payable in respect of that service, might subsequently have served in Vietnam. However his file prefix would remain that of a Korean Veteran and he would be included as such in the DVA Pensioner Summary. As a consequence, the conflict data in the DVA Pensioner Summary, while generally indicative, is therefore incomplete. A caveat to this effect will be included in its future publications. Complete information about claims by conflict could only be extracted by in- tensive manual effort. While reliable information derived from the Compensation Claims Proc- essing System (CCPS) is available on acceptance rate by conflict served for disabilities deter- mined between 1995/96 and 1999/2000, unfortunately reliable figures are not available for 1994/95, the year in which CCPS was progressively introduced, or for previous years. (4) The VRB system does contain some of the dates of service in Australia’s armed services for each appellant. However it is not recorded in such a way to be reported reliably as acceptance rates by conflicts. Wood and Paper Industry Strategy: Funding (Question No. 2338) Mr Laurie Ferguson asked the Minister for Forestry and Conservation, upon notice, on 7 February 2001: For each year from 1995-96, what was the level of funding provided by the Minister’s portfolio for elements of the 1995 Wood and Paper Industry Strategy, including: (a) innovation and research and development activities of the Forest and Wood Products Research and Development Corporation and the Industry Research and Development Board (b) AusIndustry enterprise development assistance. (c) research and improved access to information on plantation resources and wood markets. (d) Farm Forestry Program. (e) North Queensland Community Rainforest Reafforestation Program. (f) development of sustainability criteria and indicators under the Montreal process. (g) funding and secretariat support for the Wood and Paper Industry Council. Mr Tuckey—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26223

The funding provided under the 1995 Wood and Paper Industry Strategy for elements administered through the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (formerly the Department of Primary Industries and Energy) are: (a) $2.55 million for Research and Development data collection and analysis (to the Forest and Wood Products Research and Development Corporation); (b) none from the AFFA portfolio; (c) $0.70 million for research and improved access to information on plantation resources and wood markets; (d) $17.15 million for the Farm Forestry Program; (e) $2.00 million for the North Queensland Community Rainforest Reforestation Program included in (d) above; (f) $3.71 million for development of sustainability criteria and indicators; and (g) none from this portfolio. Detention Centres: Swedish Model (Question No. 2359) Dr Theophanous asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs, upon no- tice, on 8 February 2001: (1) Has he made statements rejecting an alternative approach to detention, known as the Swedish Model, before a full evaluation could be made of this model; if so, why. (2) Are his decisions based on the assumed high cost of the Swedish Model; if so, what was the (a) advice he received as to the likely cost of importing the Swedish Model to Australia and (b) basis of this assessment. (3) Will he table in Parliament all documents in his possession relating to the costs of the operation of the model in Sweden. Mr Ruddock—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1) On 27 February 2001, I announced in the House that I intend to conduct a small-scale trial, based on voluntary participation, of alternate detention arrangements for women and children asylum- seekers. While the features of the trial do not match exactly those of the so-called Swedish model of detention, the features of the Swedish model were considered when the new arrangements were being developed. The full Swedish model is not directly applicable to Australia. (2)(a) and (b) The only document containing a figure and which my Department has in regard to the cost of detaining asylum seekers in Sweden is in a paper handed to me during my visit there in January and prepared by the Australian Embassy in Sweden. The entire reference to costs in that paper is: “3187 persons were taken into custody in 2000, among whom were 238 children. It is estimated the total cost per detainee in Sweden last year was $122,000.” (3) Apart from that reference, I was advised by local officials when I visited Sweden on 17 January 2001, that the cost to the Swedish Government per annum of maintaining their current asylum system is in the order of US$1 billion. Australia Post: Delivery of Non-Postal Items (Question No. 2365) Mr Andren asked the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 8 February 2001: (1) Is the Minister aware that Australia Post mail contractors on at least two mail runs to outlying residents in the electoral division of Calare have ceased to deliver newspapers to customers, citing complications with the GST, the Pay As You Go Tax System and requirements of contractual ar- rangements with Australia Post as the reasons for the cessation of the additional service; if so, what is the Government’s view about this diminution of what many rural residents have come to rely upon as a basic service; if not, have similar concerns been raised with the Minister about other mail runs. 26224 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

(2) What practical steps will the Government take to ensure newspapers are again delivered to resi- dents on mail runs who no longer receive them, apparently due to the administrative burden to contractors of the New Tax System. (3) Will the Government consider altering Australia Post’s tender requirements to give preference to tenderers who would endeavour to deliver newspapers and other items; if not, why not. Mr McGauran—The answer to the honourable member’s question based on advice re- ceived from Australia Post is as follows: (1) There has been no obligation imposed on Australia Post by the Government or preceding Gov- ernments to deliver newspapers. Australia Post’s obligations extend only to the delivery of stan- dard letter articles. Many roadside mail contractors enter into separate business arrangements with local newsagents to carry and deliver newspapers to residents on their mail runs. Australia Post is aware of one instance in the electorate of Calare where a mail contractor advised the newsagent that he did not wish to continue previous arrangements for newspaper delivery. Ap- proximately 28 households were affected. (2) Australia Post does not have a monopoly on the delivery of newspapers. This service could be provided by anyone. It is not appropriate, therefore, to require Australia Post to do so. (3) As a commercial enterprise, Australia Post manages its own tenders and contract arrangements. While the carriage of newspapers does not form part of Australia Post’s roadside mail delivery contract, Australia Post does advise prospective new tenderers that there is an expectation that any prior arrangement will continue. Australia Post does not, however, believe that it would be appropriate to give general preference to tenderers who would endeavour to deliver newspapers and other items, as this could adversely impact on the viability of existing freight or passenger services within the community. Australia Post: St Kilda West Post Office (Question No. 2369) Mr Danby asked the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 26 February 2001: (1) How long was the St Kilda West Post Office in Fitzroy Street, St Kilda vacant after Australia Post left the premises. (2) Did Australia Post pay rent for the premises for the entire period it was vacant. (3) What was the commercial rent forgone by the Commonwealth during the period while the St Kilda West Post Office was abandoned. (4) Why was the building not sublet during the period. Mr McGauran—The answer to the honourable member’s question based on advice re- ceived from Australia Post is as follows: (1) Australia Post sold the St Kilda West Post Office property for $741,000 in December 1990 under a 10-year sale and leaseback arrangement that expired in December 2000. The St Kilda West Post Office has been vacant since 1 January 1998. (2) Australia Post paid rent for the full 10-year period. However, it negotiated a 35% rental reduction for the period April to December 2000 so the owner could have access to the property for inspec- tion by prospective tenants. (3) The rent paid for the period 1 January 1998 to 18 December 2000 was $170,323.00. (4) Australia Post engaged a real estate agent in December 1997 to sub-let the property. All offers to sub-let were submitted to the owner for approval as required under the terms of the lease. The owner rejected all offers on the basis that significant capital work was required to convert the premises to an alternative use. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26225

Goods and Services Tax: Centrelink Payments (Question No. 2370) Mr Mossfield asked the Minister representing the Minister for Family and Community Services, upon notice, on 26 February 2001: (1) Was the notional weekly income amount used to calculate compensation preclusion periods from Centrelink payments increased as a result of the Government’s GST compensation package. (2) Was the new amount not applied to cases where the compensation preclusion period began before 1 July 2000 and thus any person in this situation was not fully compensated for the GST. (3) If the new figure was to be applied to the post 1 July 2000 portion of the compensation preclusion period, would the length of any such preclusion be greatly reduced. (4) How many recipients of Centrelink payments have compensation preclusion periods that span the introduction of the GST. (5) What is the average length of compensation preclusion period for these cases. (6) What would be the average compensation preclusion period if the new, higher, figure was to be applied to the post 1 July 2000 portion of the preclusion period. (7) Will the Minister introduce legislation to extend GST compensation to people whose compensa- tion preclusion period spans the introduction of the GST. Mr Anthony—The Minister for Family and Community Services has provided the fol- lowing answer to the honourable member’s question: (1) Yes. Immediately prior to 1 July 2000 the ‘income cut-out’ amount was $428.40 per week. From 1 July 2000 the ‘income cut-out‘ amount increased to $543.63 per week as a result of the package of measures implemented under the government’s new tax system. (2) Since 20 March 1997, the formula used to calculate a compensation preclusion period has been based on the amount (applying at the point in time that the person receives the compensation lump sum) that a single person can earn before a social security pension is cut-out. The formula did not change from 1 July 2001 but the amount calculated under the formula changed as a consequence of changes to the income free area and the taper rate. The new amount only applies to compensa- tion lump sums received on or after 1 July 2000.If people receiving compensation are in financial hardship, the Social Security Act provides for some or all of a compensation payment to be disre- garded. This means that preclusion periods can be reduced or negated where special circumstances exist. (3) The Social Security Act 1991 does not provide for a compensation preclusion period to be divided into pre and post GST portions. The new ‘income cut-out’ amount cannot be applied to compen- sation lump sums received before 1 July 2000. (4) 24,311. (5) 291 weeks. (6) This information is not currently available. It would require an exhaustive, manual examination of more than 24,000 files with a significant resource impost on Centrelink and cannot be justified. (7) No, for the reasons given above. Australian Public Service: Superannuation (Question No. 2380) Mr Murphy asked the Minister for Finance and Administration, upon notice, on 28 February 2001: (1) Does the unfunded component of the Commonwealth Superannuation Scheme and the Public Sector Superannuation Schemes (CSS/PSS) trust funds equal approximately $46 billion; if not, what sum does it represent. 26226 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

(2) In relation to the unfunded component of the CSS/PSS trust funds, is he able to say (a) where the unfunded component is held, (b) what sum per annum is placed in the CSS/PSS trust fund, (c) what is the interest on the monies placed in this fund each year, (d) is this money re-invested, (e) what sum is currently held in the funds, (f) what is the interest on the money currently held in the funds and (g) are the funds placed per quarter, half-yearly or annually. (3) What are the names of the trustees of the CSS/PSS trust funds. (4) Can he briefly describe the responsibilities of the trustees of the CSS/PSS trust funds. Mr Fahey—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows (1) The unfunded liability for both schemes was estimated at $46 billion as at 30 June 1999 in the Long Term Cost Report for the Commonwealth Superannuation Scheme (CSS) and the Public Sector Superannuation Scheme (PSS) that was published in June 2000. (2) Unfunded liability represents superannuation benefits accrued by members for which the Com- monwealth holds no assets. The unfunded component of CSS and PSS benefits, which the $46 billion unfunded liability represents, will be paid from the Consolidated Revenue Fund as those benefits become payable. (3) The trustees of the CSS and PSS are the CSS and PSS Boards.The members of the PSS Board are currently Mr Peter Reynolds, Ms Cathy Manolios, Mr John Flitcroft, Ms Louise McBride and Ms Winsome Hall. The members of the CSS Board comprise the members of the PSS Board plus Ms Joy Palmer and Mr Richard Balderstone. The positions on the Boards are all part-time positions. (4) The functions of the CSS Board are prescribed by section 27C of the Superannuation Act 1976 (the 1976 Act). The functions of the PSS Board are prescribed by section 22 of the Superannuation Act 1990, (the 1990 Act) which provides that the functions and powers of the Board are set out in the PSS Trust Deed (clause 3.1). Reconciliation and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs Portfolio: Procurement Policies (Question No. 2397) Mr Sidebottom asked the Minister for Reconciliation and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Is- lander Affairs, upon notice, on 1 March 2001: (1) Is the Minister’s Department, or are agencies within the portfolio, large purchasers or consumers of office papers. (2) How are Commonwealth procurement guidelines being adhered to by the Minister’s Department and agencies within the portfolio. (3) What methodology or weighting criteria does the Minister’s Department and agencies use to de- termine the importance of the core principles which underpin the procurement guidelines, namely (a) value for money, (b) open and effective competition, (c) ethics and fair dealing, (d) account- ability and reporting, (e) national competitiveness and industry development and (f) support for other Commonwealth policies. (4) What weighting criteria are used to implement the mandatory provisions in the guidelines which state that agencies must be able to demonstrate that Australia New Zealand (ANZ) suppliers have had a fair opportunity to compete. (5) In inviting suppliers to tender for the provision of goods, are suppliers advised that they must offer ANZ goods. (6) If the Minister’s Department or agencies within the portfolio do not have weighting criteria for determining the principles, will the Minister take steps to ensure that they provide an appropriate means to demonstrate their compliance with Commonwealth procurement policy. Mr Ruddock—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (1) The Commission is a large purchaser of office paper. The Commission has a joint contract with the Department of Health and Aged Care for many paper products. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26227

(2) The Commission is covered by the Commonwealth Authorities and Companies (CAC) legislation, and is therefore not required to adhere to the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines, however has elected to mirror Commonwealth procurement policy and principles that are mandatory for Departments and agencies operating on the Commonwealth Public Account. (3) The Commission’s current Procurement Guidelines have the following core principles which un- derpin the procurement guidelines, namely (a) value for money, (b) open and effective competi- tion, (c) fair dealing and planning, (d) Code of Ethics for Procurement (e) support for other gov- ernment policies. Under the Commission’s revised Procurement Guidelines value for money would remain as the core policy goal for Commission procurement. The supporting principles would be efficiency and effectiveness, accountability and transparency, ethics, industry development and support for other government policies. Consistent with ATSIC’s goals to strengthen Indigenous businesses, the Commission is inviting competitive Indigenous providers to be included on its compendium of consultants, and invite them to bid for ATSIC business. (4) To assist Australian and New Zealand (ANZ) industry to compete for Commission business, the Commission has an MOU with ANZ Industrial Supplies Office Network (“the ISO Network”). (5) There is no clause in the Commission’s Terms of Reference (TOR) that requires suppliers to offer ANZ goods. The Commission will revise its TOR and include a clause to cover this issue. (6) NA Department of Reconciliation and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs (1) No. (2) The Department closely follows Commonwealth Government Procurement Guidelines in the pur- chasing of all goods and services. (3)(a) to (f) No weighting to the core principles is applied when assessing procurement opportunities. For each purchasing activity, departmental officers are encouraged to use their judgement in en- suring all of the procurement core principles of the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines are adhered to. (4) For each purchasing decision, the Department considers each of the core procurement principles, including the requirement to ensure Australian and New Zealand suppliers have fair opportunity to compete for departmental business. (5) No. However in each procurement decision the department remains conscious of the principle relating to open and fair competition and government policy supporting the development of com- petitive Australian and New Zealand Industries. (6) The attention of all staff involved in procurement activity is drawn to the departmental Chief Ex- ecutive Instructions and Guidelines, which provide detailed information in relation to the Com- monwealth Procurement Guidelines. Aboriginal Hostels Limited (1) Aboriginal Hostels Limited is not a large purchaser and consumer of office paper. (2) The operations of Aboriginal Hostels Limited fall within the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth Authorities and Companies Act 1977 and, as such, Aboriginal Hostels Limited is not required to act according to the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines. However, with the exception of notifying of opportunities, and reporting of company agreements in the Gazette, Aboriginal Hos- tels Limited has elected to adopt the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines when purcahsing goods and services on the Public Account. (3) Aboriginal Hostels Limited weighs the importance of the core principles as follows: (i) Value for money; (ii) Open and effective competition; (iii) Ethics and fair dealing; (iv) Accountability and reporting; 26228 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

(v) Industry development; and (vi)Support for other government policies. Aboriginal Hostels Limited considers that obtaining value for money and ensuring process trans- parency are the most important principles of the procurement process. Aboriginal Hostels Limited also considers that it is important to support Indigenous businesses and incorporates this principle in “industry development”, inviting where appropriate, Indigenous enterprises to bid for company business. (4) Aboriginal Hostels Limited favours the purchase of Australian products and has an “Australian first” policy that is a part of the consideration of “value for money”. (5) Yes. (6) Not applicable. Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies (1) The Institute is not a large purchaser of office paper. Acquisitions in any financial year do not exceed $10,000. (2) The Institute is covered by the Commonwealth Authorities and Companies (CAC) legislation. It is, therefore, not required to adhere to the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines, but has elected to mirror Commonwealth procurement policy and principles that are mandatory for De- partments and agencies. (3) The Institute's Procurement Guidelines require employees purchasing goods and services to up- hold all of the core principles of Commonwealth procurement policy. (4) AIATSIS employees purchasing goods and services are required to follow its Procurement Guide- lines and purchasing practices are monitored by internal audit. (5) There is no clause in the Procurement Guidelines that requires suppliers to offer ANZ goods. The Institute will review its guidelines and include a clause to cover this issue. (6) NA Indigenous Land Corporation (1) The ILC is a small corporation employing approximately 70 staff. As such, it would not be con- sidered a large purchaser. (2) The Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines are incorporated into the ILC purchasing policy and practice directions. They form the overriding principles against which all ILC purchasing is con- sidered. Land purchases pursuant to section 191D of the ATSIC Act are subject to other legislative and policy requirements. (3) The ILC purchasing policy incorporates all of the core principles. However, the ILC has not in- stituted a weighting criterion against the core principles. Value for money would be considered the primary objective, notwithstanding the importance of complying with the remaining princi- ples. (4) The nature of ILC purchasing is such that local suppliers are predominantly used. The ILC also has a legislative responsibility to maximise the use of goods and services provided by businesses owned or controlled by Aboriginal persons or Torres Strait Islanders. The Corporation has not instituted a weighting criteria in regard to competition by Australia New Zealand (ANZ) suppliers. (5) The ILC generally call for tenders for the supply of services rather than goods. Suppliers of goods are not generally advised in invitations for tender that they must offer ANZ goods. (6) NA Torres Strait Regional Authority (1) The Torres Strait Regional Authority (TSRA) is a minor purchaser of office papers. (2) The TSRA follows the Commonwealth procurement policy and principles that are mandatory for Departments and agencies operating on the Commonwealth Public Account. Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26229

(3) The TSRA’s current Procurement Guidelines have the following core principles which underpin the procurement guidelines, namely: (a) value for money; (b) open and effective competition; (c) fair dealing and planning; (d) Code of Ethics for Procurement; and (e) support for other government policies. The TSRA uses the Government Purchasing Index which lists all approved Australian and New Zealand suppliers for the Commonwealth. The selection of a supplier or suppliers is based on the TSRA’s procurement guidelines. (5) There is no clause in the TSRA’s current Procurement Guidelines that requires suppliers to offer ANZ goods. The TSRA will revise its guidelines to include a clause to cover this. (6) NA Commercial Development Corporation (1) The Corporation is not a large purchaser of office paper. (2) The Corporation is covered by the Commonwealth Authorities and Companies (CAC) legislation, and is therefore not required to adhere to the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines. (3) Under the Corporation’s Procurement Guidelines value for money would remain as the core policy goal. The supporting principles would be efficiency and effectiveness, accountability and trans- parency, ethics, industry development and support for other government policies. (4) As stated in (2) the Corporation is not required to adhere to the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines. However, the Corporation does weigh up the value for money and benefits of pur- chasing from Australian and New Zealand suppliers. (5) There is currently no clause in the Corporation’s purchasing procedure that require suppliers to offer ANZ goods. The Corporation will consider revising its purchasing policy. (6) N/A. Employment, Workplace Relations and Small Business Portfolio: Procurement Policies (Question No. 2400) Mr Sidebottom asked the Minister for Employment, Workplace Relations and Small Busi- ness, upon notice, on 1 March 2001: (1) Is the Minister’s Department, or are agencies within the portfolio, large purchasers or consumers of office papers. (2) How are Commonwealth procurement guidelines being adhered to by the Minister’s Department and agencies within the portfolio. (3) What methodology or weighting criteria does the Minister’s Department and agencies use to de- termine the importance of the core principles which underpin the procurement guidelines, namely (a) value for money, (b) open and effective competition, (c) ethics and fair dealing, (d) account- ability and reporting, (e) national competitiveness and industry development and (f) support for other Commonwealth policies. (4) What weighting criteria are used to implement the mandatory provisions in the guidelines which state that the agencies must be able to demonstrate that Australia New Zealand (ANZ) suppliers have had a fair opportunity to compete. (5) In inviting suppliers to tender for the provision of goods, are suppliers advised that they must offer ANZ goods. (6) If the Minister’s Department or agencies within the portfolio do not have weighting criteria for determining the principles, will the Minister take steps to ensure that they provide an appropriate means to demonstrate their compliance with Commonwealth procurement policy. Mr Abbott—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: 26230 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

(1) The department is a low to moderate consumer of office paper. (2) In accordance with FMAR6 (1) the Department has produced instructions for staff undertaking procurement activities. These Guidelines require staff to take account of the Commonwealth Pro- curement Guidelines: Core Policies and Principles when procuring property and services. (3) The principal objective in undertaking procurement activities is to provide the means to efficiently and effective deliver the department’s programs. As such, evaluation criteria are weighted to en- sure a value for money outcome within a competitive environment. The department’s guidelines also require ethics, fair dealing and accountability in its procurement processes. (4) The department encourages a competitive and open environment when undertaking procurement activities. This strategy provides opportunities to all suppliers, including ANZ suppliers and Small to Medium Enterprises. Decisions on procurement processes are recorded. (5) No. (6) Guidelines are in place. Dairy Industry: Consumer Levy (Question No. 2403) Mr Price asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 1 March 2001: (1) What sum will be raised by the 11 cents per litre consumer levy on milk each year for the duration of the Dairy Assistance scheme in (a) NSW and (b) each State and Territory. (2) What sum raised by the 11 cents per litre consumer levy on milk each year for the duration of the scheme will be paid to dairy farmers in (a) NSW and (b) each State and Territory. (3) What will be the total sum of the levy raised in NSW. (4) What will be the total sum of the levy received by NSW Dairy Farmers. (5) Which State Dairy Farmers will receive the difference between what the levy raises in NSW and what is paid to NSW Dairy Farmers. Mr Truss—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1) Based on the proportion of fresh milk consumed in 2000 in each State, it is estimated that average annual revenue raised will be: NSW:$65.2 million; the ACT:$3.5 million; Victoria:$50.0 million; Queensland:$44.1 million; South Australia:$21.3 million; Western Australia:$21.9 million; Tas- mania:$5.50 million and the Northern Territory:$10.9 million. The Northern Territory figure in- cludes all UHT milk brought in from the States and the ACT. (2) Payments to farmers are estimated to be NSW:$42.1 million, Victoria:$95.6 million, Queen- sland:$27.5 million, South Australia:$15.9 million, Western Australia:$13.5 million, and Tasma- nia:$9.5 million. Payments to farmers in the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory are not able to be provided for confidentiality reasons, as the number of farmers in these locations is very small. (3) It is expected that the total amount of levy raised in NSW over the eight-year term of the dairy adjustment levy will be $521.6 million. (4) Payments made over eight years to NSW dairy farmers are estimated to be $337 million. (5) The Dairy Adjustment Levy is a Commonwealth levy, which under the Constitution must be ap- plied uniformly across Australia. It is estimated that payments to dairy farmers over eight years will be NSW:$337 million, Victoria:$765 million, Queensland:$220 million, South Austra- lia:$127.2 million, Western Australia:$108 million, and Tasmania: $76 million. Information Technology Industry: Staffing (Question No. 2413) Dr Theophanous asked the Minister for Employment, Workplace Relations and Small Business, upon notice, on 1 March 2001: Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26231

(1) Is there a shortfall of a least 30 000 positions in the IT industry which are not being filled in Aus- tralia. (2) Are a number of high technology Australian companies moving operations offshore because of this shortfall in qualified staff. (3) Is the problem so serious that a special taskforce has been formed by employers in a desperate attempt to resolve this issue. (4) What action is the Government taking to deal with this continuing crisis in the availability of qualified staff in the IT industry in Australia. Mr Abbott—The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1) I am aware that in August 1999 the Information Technology & Telecommunications (IT&T) Skills Task Force released the results of a national survey of the IT&T Industry, which estimated that during 1999-2000 the Industry would have approximately 30,000 positions to be filled by skilled IT&T employees. However, this did not purport to be an estimate of any shortfall in the filling of positions in the Industry. The Department of Employment, Workplace Relations and Small Busi- ness (DEWRSB), through its Skill Shortage Assessment activity, monitors skill shortages and has assessed that IT&T skill shortages are widespread but do not apply to all IT&T specialisations. A list of IT&T specialist skills (now generally referred to as Information Communications and Tech- nology - ICT) that are in shortage has recently been published on the DEWRSB website and is at- tached. (2) Information is not available regarding the numbers, if any, of Australian companies moving off- shore because of ICT skill shortages. (3) In 1998, through an industry initiative, an IT&T Skills Task Force was formed in response to in- dustry concerns about IT&T shortages. Information about the IT&T Skills Task Force can be ob- tained from the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts. (4) The Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts and the Minister for Education, Training and Youth Affairs have announced initiatives to address shortages. Informa- tion about these initiatives can be obtained from those Ministers. In regard to my portfolio, DEWRSB provides advice to the Department of Immigration and Mul- ticultural Affairs (DIMA) on skill shortages. DEWRSB works closely with DIMA in reviewing and implementing skilled migration policies and procedures and there are specific initiatives in the Migration Programme to facilitate the entry of skilled ICT workers, including considerable flexi- bility for temporary and permanent migration. DEWRSB also has many Labour Agreements cov- ering ICT workers. Australia’s immigration arrangements for entry of ICT professionals are already highly stream- lined. In 1999-2000 there was a gain of 8,000 ICT professionals. The Government has also an- nounced further initiatives including: using the contingency reserve allocation in the Migration Program to accommodate the rising de- mand to migrate from ICT professionals who have been trained in Australia. This will involve at least 2,500 places over and above the 76,000 places announced in the Migration Programme for 2000-2001; from July 2001, successful Australian-educated overseas students with key skills, particularly ICT qualifications, can apply to obtain a visa for permanent residence under the Skilled-Independent and related categories without leaving Australia; issuing a legally based Ministerial Direction to all immigration decision makers to give immediate processing priority to ICT professionals applying under the Temporary Business (Long Stay) visa and the Skilled Stream of the Migration Programme; all ICT occupations will be recognised as "key" positions, removing the need to test the labour market when looking to nominate an overseas worker for long-term temporary entry; and ICT specialisations on the Migration Occupations in Demand List will be reviewed in consultation with the DEWRSB, the National Office for the Information Economy and with representatives from the ICT industry on a six monthly (rather than annual) basis to identify ICT specialist short- ages. 26232 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

SKILL SHORTAGES*—ICT SPECIALISATIONS (FEBRUARY 2001) AUST NSW VIC QLD SA WA TAS ACT

Database DB2 D D Oracle SSSSDS MS Access D D Microsoft SQL Server S S S D D D Sybase SQL Server S S S D D D General Application Development/Software Engineering PowerBuilder S S S D D Java SSSSSSDS Java Script S S S S S S C++ S S S S D S S S Delphi SD SDDD S Visual Basic S S S S Lotus Notes S D S D D S Progress S S D Powerhouse D S D Networking/LAN Administration Novell Netware D D D TCP/IP S D D IPX D D SNA D D Microsoft NT Server D D S D Ethernet D Advanced Web Design S S S S S D Internet and Multimedia HTML S D ASP S S D D S S D D Xml S S D S S D Java Security and elec- SSSDSS tronic commerce # Graphics D D Multimedia D D D S Firewall/Internet security S S S D S D Office/E-mail/Groupware Groupwise D D D Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26233

AUST NSW VIC QLD SA WA TAS ACT

Lotus Notes D S S D Microsoft Exchange D D D CC:Mail D D D Eudora D D D * S = Shortage D = Recruitment Difficulty # = programming skills, not business skills

AUST NSW VIC QLD SA WA TAS ACT Client/Server applications COBOL SAP S D S D D S D PeopleSoft S D S D S S Siebel S S D D S System Software Support Help desk Data Warehousing S S S D D Operating Systems Unix SSSSDD D Windows 2000 S D Windows NT S D S Solaris S SD SD S D Linux S S S D D HP-UX S DDD D VMS S D S Communications Radio D DDD SDH D D D WDM D D D GSM D D D CDMA D D D Broadband CDMA D D D Satellite design D D TDMA D D VSAT D D Photonics D D Process & Systems Management Project Management S S S D D S 26234 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

AUST NSW VIC QLD SA WA TAS ACT Systems analysis S S D D D S Broad commercial busi- SSSD D S ness understanding E-Commerce (eg business/financial management/analysis/customer service) Overall e-commerce S S S D D S S Business analysts S Mainframe Pick D ADSO D Adabas D Hogan S D IDMS D * S = Shortage D = Recruitment Difficulty

AUST NSW VIC QLD SA WA TAS ACT

Other Specialisations not listed above Cisco S D VB/COM D Messaging systems D Open TV D DVD D IT recruiters D Perl D D OO technologies D D Voice over IP D Optical D Flase S Tuxedo D WML for WAP S PHP S Technical Architect D C/Unix (Combined) S Games Programmers D Experienced Developers D DBA D Foxpro D Object Star D Monday, 2 April 2001 REPRESENTATIVES 26235

AUST NSW VIC QLD SA WA TAS ACT

Ada D Fortran D Clipper D CRM (Customer Rela- D tionship Management) Univers S CRYSTAL S Testers D * S = Shortage D = Recruitment Difficulty National Specialisations in Shortage Database: Oracle, Microsoft SQL Server,Sybase SQL Server. General Application Development: PowerBuilder, Java, JavaScript, C++, Delphi, Visual Basic. Networking/Lan Administration: Advanced Web Design. Internet and Multimedia: ASP, Xml, Java Security and electronic commerce, Firewall/Internet Security. Client/Server applications: SAP, Peoplesoft., Siebel. System Software support: Data Warehousing. Operating Systems: Unix, Windows NT, Solaris, Linux, Process and Systems Management: Project Management, Systems Analysis, Commercial Business understanding. E-Commerce. National Office of the Information Economy (Question No. 2437) Mr Tanner asked the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 7 March 2001: (1) What sums were transferred to the National Office of the Information Economy (NOIE) from the Office of the Government Online (OGO) following their merger for the forward estimate years (a) 2001-2002, (b) 2002-2003 and (c) 2003-2004. (2) How many staff were transferred to NOIE from OGO and at what Australian Public Service salary of executive bands. (3) What is NOIE’s budget for 2000-2001 and for each of the forward estimate years referred to in part (1). (4) What proportion of NOIE’s resources are devoted to the functions previously performed by OGO in 2000-01 and forward estimate years referred to in part (1). Mr McGauran—The Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts has provided the following answer to the honourable member’s question: 26236 REPRESENTATIVES Monday, 2 April 2001

(1) 2001-02, $12,091,000 2002-03, $ 7,105,000 2003-04, $ 7,035,000 (2) No of staff: 60 APS salary: APS 1 $26,410 - $29,188 NIL APS 2 $29,889 - $33,144 NIL APS 3 $34,042 - $36,742 6 APS 4 $37,941 - $41,196 2 APS 5 $42,319 - $44,874 4 APS 6 $45,707 - $52,504 12 Executive Salary: Executive Staff Exec 1 $58,502 - $63,179 17 Exec 2 $67,442 - $79,041 14 Senior Executive Service Band 1 $75,073 - $100,020 3 Band 2 $89,334 - $122,579 2 (3)— 2000-01 $33,858,000 2001-02 $33,128,000 2002-03 $25,381,000 2003-04 $24,285,000 (4)— 2000-01 39.6% 2001-02 36.2% 2002-03 28.1% 2003-04 28.9%.